The Sun. — London, England, 1859-03-05 00:00:00

cheater, Sheffield, and Lincolnshire Railway , (Sale or I Lease) Bill be committed, be read, and discharged, and that the bill be withdrawn ; also that the order, that the Breconshire Railway and Canal (No. 1) Bill be committed, be read, and discharged, and that the bill be withdrawn ; also that the Chichester Harbour Embankment Bill be re-committed to the former committee, with leave to the committee to sit and proceed on Tuesday next, if they think fit ; and for the withdrawal of the West London and Pimlico Railway Bfil.—Agreed to. PETITIONS. - Several petitions were presented from letter-carriers and others employed in provincial post-offices, praying that they might be included in the provisions of the Superannuation Act. LETTERS OF DETENTION. --- - - Mr. WARRE moved for a return of the number of " letters of detention" issued by the Admiralty Court since Ist Jan.,1856, upon affidavits made by parties alleging that they had claims upon ships or vessels, foreign or Bri tish, in any ports or harbours of the United Kingdom, with the dates when such letters of detention were issued, and also the dates when the causes to which they related were severally heard and determined.—Agreed to. EAST INDIES (MORTALITY AT DUMDUM.) Mr. S. HERBERT moved for an address for copy of any reports; .or correspondence which had been received in the department of the Secretary of State for War or the Secretary of Staff for India, on the subject of the mortality *which occurred in the year 1858 among the women and children quartered in the barracks at Dumdum, in the Presidency of Bengal.—Agreed to. MANNING THE NAVY. _ - -- -.-- . - . On the motion of Admiral DUNCOMBE, copies or ex tracts of a report and appendex of the committee of 1852, on manning the navy, were ordered to be laid on the table. NATIONAL EDUCATION (IRELAND). Mr. MONSELL moved for returns of the number of pupils on the rolls of all the Irish National Schools for the half-year ending the 31st day of March, 1858, specifying the number of each religious denomination, the number of literary teachers, and of managers of each religious deno mination : and of the names of all officers in the board's service in receipt of salaries.—Agreed to. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Mr. H. BERKELEY gave notice that, on the occasion of the ;second reading of the people's Representation Bill, be would move that no measure for an extension of the suffrage would be complete which did not include vote by ballot. THE PAPER DUTY. Mr. W. EWART asked the Secretary to the Treasuiy whether the Treasury had considered the propriety of ex tending to school books generally the exemption from paper duty which is now allowed on books in the Latin, Greek, Oriental, and Northern languages printed by the universities ; also, what books are considered to be free from duty under the description of books in the Northern languages ? Sir S. NORTIICOTE said that it would be impossible to define .strictly what were school books; and with refer ence to the last part of the question, the books described as in the northern languages were Russian, Scandinavian, Danish, and Dutch. MARINE ENGINES. Mr. HENRY GORE LANGTON asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether, as her Majesty's Government had thought it necessary to apply for tenders for the supply of marine engines from Liverpool, Scotland, and most of the .eminent houses engaged in this particular busi ness, Bristol was included amongst the places to which invi tations for tenders had been made ? Sir J. PAKINGTON said that no tenders had been ac • cepted from America, but there was no desire to exclude any locality or any respectable house from participating in the business alluded to. CLAIMS OF BRITISH TRADERS. Mr. CRAWFORD asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether steps were being taken to induce the Portuguese Government to satisfy the claims of British traders for injustice done to them on the African coast? Mr. S. FITZGERALD said that endeavours had been made for the last sixteen years to obtain a satisfactory settlement of the claims in question, but up to the present time they had succeeded only in getting promises. TREATIES WITH FOREIGN POWERS. Mr. HORSMAN asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether the treaties which, subsequent to the Treaty of Vienna, had been concluded between the Emperor of Au4tria and the different sovereigns of Italy, and having reference to the internal government of their dominions or their military occupation by Austrian troops, had been communicated to the British Government ; and whether there were copies of them in the . Foreign-office ; and, if the answers *ere in the affirmative, whether there was any objection to lay them before Parliament. Mr. S. FITZGERALD said that some of the documents referred to were in the library of the house, but that only the substance of others in possession of the Government were in the library. ROYAL NAVY. Mr. HORSMAN moved fora tabular statement of sea men (including officers), boys, and marines, voted for naval service, and actually borne, from the year 1756 inclusive to the present time (1859) inclusive ; and of the amount of raone7.voted in each year for the service, and specifyinr the different periods of war and peace. —Agreed to. JAMES'S PARK. Mr. KINNAIRD asked the Chief Commissioner of Works whether he was prepared to recommend and to carry out the widening of the passage leading from Spring gardens and Cockspur-street into St. James's Park, so as to allow carriages and persons on horseback to enter and leave the park by that route, the Metropolitan Board of Works having announced their intention of immediately widening so much of the said passage as fronts Berkeley House. Lord J. MANNERS said that the subject was under attention. PUBLIC OFFICES, Lord J. MANNERS obtained leave to bring in a bill to make further provision for enabling the Commissioners of her Majesty's Works to acquire a site for additional offices for the public service, near Whitehall and her Majesty's Palace of Westminster. COURT OF PROBATE. Lord J. MANNERS moved for leave to bring in a bill to enable the Commissioners of her Majesty's Works to ac quire a site for the purposes of her Majesty's Court of Pro bate and other courts and offices.—Agreed to. ASSISTANT-SURGEONS IN THE EAST INDIA COMPANY. Mr. RIDLEY asked the Secretary of State for India, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government now to confer any mark of distinction upon those Assist,- Surgeons, late in the service of the East India Company, who formed part of the garrison during the whole of the siege of Lucknow, and who were recommended in the despatch of General Inglis, of the 26th September, 1807, to the particular attention of the Government of India ; or, if the rank of assistant-surgeon did not allow of such dis tinction being conferred at the present time,whether he would cause that recommendation to be noted in the books, so that on their obtaining the rank of full surgeon they may receive a corresponding distinction to that already con ferred on the four surgeons named in the above cited despatch ? Lord STANLEY said that the assistant -surgeons were only regarded in the light of other subalterns, and there fore'were not eligible for any such clistinction as that al luded to ; but, on the part of the Government of India, he could assure the hon. member that they were very desirous of recognising the claims of those who were entitled to such recognition. COURT OF BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY APPOINTMENTS (IRELAND) . Mr. BEAMISH asked the Attornqy - Genera l for Ireland, whether it was the fact that the Lord Chancellor of Ireland had recently appointed Mr. Charles Henry James, an officer in the Ayrshire Rifles; one of the two official assignees of the Court of Bankruptcy and Insolvency in Ireland ; and, if so, whether the Attorney-General could inform the house what were the qualifications of Mr. James for the office, and what was the amount of the salary or emoluments ? Mr. WHITESIDE said the gentleman in question was fppointed because he was the fittest man. (Laughter.) The hon. and learned member read a letter from the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, stating that Mr. James was recom mended to him by some of the principal merchants of Dublin, and that he believed the salary was about £6OO a-year. THE NEW REFORM BILL FOR SCOTLAND AND IRELAND. Mr. E. ELLICE asked the Lord Advocate whether, by the new Reform Bill for Scotland, it was intended to confer on burghs and counties a similar franchise to that provided for in the second, third, and fourth sections of the first clause of the English Reform Bill now before the house. In the first clause, relative to the franchise, in the bill in troduced by the Government, an alteration was proposed which, though not affecting England to any great extent, would very seriously affect Scotland. He alluded to the lowering of the franchise from £lO to £5, and in dealing with Scotland, it should be remembered that the former was the ordinary amount of long tenure in that country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he proposed to bring forward the Scotch bill as soon after the English Reform Bill as the pressure of business would permit—he expected before Easter. He thought it would be inconvenient to make any statement at present. He took that 'opportunity of informing the house that he would take an early opportunity of maki ng a statement with reference to the Reform Bill for Ireland. In reply to Mr. PALK, Mr. BRIGHT said, with regard to his measure, he thought it would be better for the house to attend to one at a time. (Laughter.) He would give full n o ti ce b efore in troducinc, his bill. FORTESCUE considered that some er i e n epe t r i e m t a n ti tt o ha n e. Mr. C 7 of the intention o f the Governmentnt wamitehndretfhere n nature of the bill to be introduced tion of the people of Ireland, should have been made before the present time. After some observations fromLordlr. J. Russell, ea l zd Mr. J. D. Fitzgerald, Mr. Bowyer, and e that he The CHANCELLOR of the t E a y i r said w Q aa U d E ea ß irabl wished the house to understand that the principle of the bill which had been esuchi ntroducedas that should be affirmed before any statement was made alluded to, as the principle did not apply s olely to England. He would, therefore, defer making any s tatement, until subsequent to the second reading of the bill. ARMY ESTIMATES. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that there was an item in the army estimates of £1,050,000 for a debt incurred in 1857, relative to which no information was given in the estimates. He hoped, therefore, that the gallant Secretary of War would give an explanation in reference to so large an. item. _ _ _ General PEEL said he would make such explanation as was required. DANUBIAN PRINCIPALITIES, On the motion for going into Committee of Supply on the Army Estimates, fir. STAPLETOIst called the attention of the house to the double election in the Danubian Provinces. A question arose at the conference which preceded the Treaty of Paris as to whether those provinces should continue separate or be united into ono homogeneous State. The French Envoy proposed the union, and was supported in that opinion by Lord Clarendon. On the other hand, the Turkish Envoy, supported by the Austrian, opposed the union. The Divans which had been summoned in the Principalities declared in favour of union, and it was supposed by the people that their wishes would b e gratified by the Powers who had taken them under their protection. But all at once a change came over the policy of the English Government, and the line of conduct which had been followed by Lord Clarendon at Paris had been departed from. A motion was made in the House of Commons on the subject by the right hon. member for Oxford University, which was resisted by the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, on the ground that the people of the Principalities did not wish for union, except under the headship of a foreign Prince. Th e no b le lord the member for Tiverton took the same view, but sub sequent events proved that they were in the wrong. Th e conferences at Paris were soon afterwards reopened, and articles were agreed to for the future regulation of the government of the Principalities. The hon. gen tleman after referring in detail to the articles of the convention then concluded, said he should be glad to hear what part the Envoy of England had taken in those conferences. The Chancellor of the Exchequer told the house that there was complete identity between the views of France and England on this subject; but the Emperor in his late speech spoke of the convention in the most condem natory terms. It was clear that the Government knew as little of the real views of France as they did of the wishes of the Principalities, for the election of one Hospodar for the two had given the greatest satisfaction to the people of both. He hoped to hear from the Under-Secretary some intimation of the policy which the Government intended to pursue under these circumstances. Mr. FITZGERALD was quite sure that the house and the hon. gentleman himself must feel that it was impossible for him, on the part of the Government, to enter mto a lengthened consideration of this very important question. (Hear, hear.) It was his duty last year to state the views which her Majesty's Government entertained with refer ence to the anion of the Principalities. Since that time a Conference of the European Powers assembled at Paris, and day after day and week after week the attention of the most able diplomatists in Europe was directed to this question, and their labours resulted in what must be deemed a solemn act on the part of the European Powers. The hon. gentle man had stated that in his opinion the election of Couza as Hospodar of both the Principalities was not contrary to the letter or the spirit of the convention signed by the Con ference of Paris. He (Mr. Fitzgerald) would not venture to offer any opinion on that subject, but this at least he would say, that such an election as that was not contem plated by. those who formed the Conference at Paris. Neither would he venture to enter into the question raised by the hon. gentleman as to the intentions with which this election had been carried out in the Principalities, or its probable results. But this at least was clear, that the Power which was most seriously interested in the election —namely, Turkey—thought that it was contrary both to the letter and the spirit of the convention, and had invited those who with her were parties to the Conference at Paris to meet in Paris and consider the very serious state of affairs at present existing in the Principalities. The Eu ropean Powers had accordingly agreed to meet in Paris to consider what best was to be done. The hon. gentle man said that before the Conference met her Majesty's Go vernment ought to state what were the views entertained by them on the subject, and what was the course they in tended to adopt ; but he (Mr. Fitzgerald) thought the house would admit that her Majesty's Government would be wanting in respect to those European Powers that had been invited to assemble at Paris to consider what was best to be done under the difficult state of circumstances that had arisen if they were publicly, prematurely, and indiscreetly to state what were their views upon the subject. (Hear.) He thought, therefore, that, having thus shortly stated the grounds on which he asked the house not to enter into a consideration of this very important question, he should best fulfil his duty by declining t o say anything more upon it. Mr. ROEBUCK said the inhabitants of the Principali ties were endeavouring to become a people, and it would be no indiscretion on the part of the House of Commons to say they hoped the efforts of the Moldavians and Walla chians to become a nation, and to gain their independence, would be successful. For his own part, he participated very much in their wishes, and hoped that, far from being the (slaves of the diplomacy of Europe, they would retain their own dignity and work out unaided their own inde pendence. NAVAL FORCE ON THE AUSTRALIAN COAST. Lord A. CHURCHILL then rose to call the attention of the Government to the inadequate protection at present afforded to the Australian and New Zealand colonies through the smallness of the naval force stationed there. He said that many gentlemen connected with the Australian colo nies had been disappointed by the omission of the First Lord of the Admiralty, in his speech on the navy estimates, to promise that the naval force in Australia should be in creased. The present force consisted of three or four small vessels, which were a detachment from the forces at the Indian and Chinese stations. The greatest difficulty was therefore experienced in communicating with the admiral. During the late war the senior officer at the Australian station expressed his surprise in the strongest possible terms that colonies so important as the Australian should be protected by so miserable a force. The French had established a naval station in New Caledonia, and were endeavouring in every way to increase their in fluence in the Pacific Ocean. They had now three islands there, one of which—viz., New Caledonia—was only 900 miles from Sydney. It was a beautiful island, surrounded by coral reefs, and had an excellent harbour. It was 400 miles in extent, and was protected by five French vessels of war ; but its trade by no means required so large a force. 'For what object, then, were those vessels stationed there? The inhabitants were very savage, and the naminal reason why the French vessels were maintained was to keep the savages in subjection. But that was not the real reason. The real object was that,. in case of any hostilities with France New Caledonia might be made the point from which the Australian colonies could be assailed this could be done with the greatest possible facility. Only a few years ago an American frigate worked her way in the night up the bay to the city of Sydney, and when the people woke in the morning they found themselves under her guns, with nothing to prevent her from laying the city in ashes,.or putting it under contribution. The question arose how far it was the duty of the mother country to protect the coun ' try by a naval force, and how far the colonies ought to pro tect themselves. He thought the mother country ought to afford facilities to the colonies to form a separate naval force if they chose, and to give them sufficient protection till they had done so. He believed the Australian colonies were ready to form a naval militia for their own defence. One proposition made to the Home Government was that it should send them some of the old ships the First Lord of the Admiralty stated were not fit to be converted into screw steamers. They might go out jury-rigged, carrying emigrants to defray the expense. They could take out heavy ordnance in their holds. When they arrived one might be stationed at Sydney, one at Melbourne, one at Adelaide, and one at Hobart Town. They would form a naval militia. In the event of tiny hostilities they might 'be towed out by a colonial steamer and placed broadside on to the enemy. Such a naval force would give confidence to the colonies ; and the fact of their being there might prevent any attack. The colonies felt also that they were in a posi tion to demand a separate naval station; this was recom mended by Lord Auckland, but never carried out. He could not see why the Admiral in command on the west coast of South America should not have his station extended to Australia ; it already extended to within a few hundred miles of New Zealand. These questions excited great in- terest in the Australian colonie;; and he would - ask the right hon. baronet whether the Government contemplated forming a separate naval establishment for the better de- fence of their Australian possessions. Sir C. NAPIER, according to notice, moved that, as the First Lord of the Admiralty had stated that the coastguard ships are comparatively useless, the time had arrived when they ought to be replaced by efficient ships ; and, also, in quired when it was the intention of the Government to put in force the recommendations of the commission for manning the navy. He said the nine blockships, described by the right hon. baronet as comparatively useless, and now sta tioned at different ports on the coastguard service, were considered by merchant seamen as a disgrace to the coun try ; they ought to be removed and their places supplied by efficient ships ; this could be done with great ease, and why it was not done was very extraordinary. It was to be hoped that the First Lord of the Admiralty would explain to the house why he persisted in employing the blockships when he had himself declared them to be comparatively useless. All Europe was armed as if it were on the brink of a great war; and how, therefore, a rich country like this should be left in so imperfect a state of defence he could not, for the life of him, understand. The first reserve ought to be im mediately commissioned and manned. The commissioners on the manning of the navy had been appointed eight or nine months ago, and their recommendations ought to be• carried into immediate execution. The Admiralty them selves might long ago have carried out most of those recom mendations. The First Lord was the Minister responsible for the proper defence of the country, and his complaint against him was that he did not go fast enough to meet the exigencies of the crisis. The hon. and gallant admiral pointed out the mode in which he thought the useless coast guard ships might easily be replaced by efficient vessels, and concluded by making his motion in the terms above stated. Mr. YOUNG could confirm the statements made by the noble lord who had called attention to the defenceless state of the Australian coasts. The Australian colonies were as loyal and contented as any part of the British empire, their only grievance being the want of naval iirotection for their extensive seaboard. When rumours of hostilities were rife the colonists were naturally anxious about their safety ; and at the commencement of the Russian war great consterna tion was felt on the same score. The town of Sydney was , very exposed to attack ; and any French or American sailor ' who had once been to Sydney harbour could easily take a ship up there during the night. Sir J. PAKINGTON—I hope my noble friend will not think that'l was guilty of any discourtesy in not at once re plying to his remarks ; because the gallant admiral had given notice of a motion with reference to the blockships, and if I had not waited for his statement, the forms of the house would have prevented my replying to him. I entirely agree with my noble friend, that whether it be with respect to naval'force or any other matter, the Australian colonies have the fullest right to every friendly consideration at the hands of the Government ; but I am not equally disposed to admit the truth of the words used by him in his notice as to the " entirely inadequate naval protection" of those colonies. At all events, I am in a position to say that, be their de fence adequate or inadequate, it is much more effective than it was when I succeeded to the Admiralty. At that time the Australian colonies were defended by one vessel, and I believe by one vessel only— I am sure by not more than two. The Sappho brig was under orders to proceed from the Cape of Good Hope to strengthen that squadron, but unhappily she Was lost, and I am afraid that all hands perished with her. Since that time the Aurelia sloop of war has gone to Austra- lie from the Kooria Mooria Islands ; and in the course of the last summer I ordered two other sloops of war to proceed from the China station to strengthen the Australian squadron. The result i s th at at this time that squadron consists of four letter which I received d wh v ic e h ry r are screw steamers ; and in a the °ram d officer o f that men-of-war, ec a e t n ati tl .o y n, fro l m w C as ap a t a a s i ur n e L d au tf:a e t , in his opinion that squadron was amply sufficient for any necessity which could arise within b the colonies. I hope t will another station ta satisfactory lat te r — t o matter—viz., z i y . , noble friend.tliat s o far T h n i alyqsuteaatteimene touchesstatement at thet Ad miralt y in the whe ther we are prepared to erect a naval Austra lian colonies. Since I have b ee , f otfySly to dnhaevye been in commimication. with the Gove rnaldinamenirtal propose isl and in that vessels in those with a view to obtaining possessionanodf we " Garden Island," harbour called ap propriate that island, at least, to the reception . stores for the benefit and assi4ance of her Majesty's seas. That arrangement is at present in its infancy. I men. lion it to show my noble friend that we are not unmindful of the necessity of having some naval establishment in those seas, and I hope that it will soon 'be so far matured as to meet all the requirements of our fleet. My noble friend mentioned a fact of which I was not aware--that it was the intention of Lord Auckland to make the Australian station a separate command. It is my intent ion to carry out a similar arrangement. The Board of Admiralty have come to the determination that the Australian colonies ought not to be nominally attached to the India and China station, and we therefore propose to make it an independent com mand. (Hear, hear.) I will now turn to what fell from the gallant admiral opposite with respect to the blockships• He complained that I, having stated that these are very useless vessels, still keep them round the coast as coast guard ships. I think the gallant admiral rather overstates what fell from me with regard to the comparative inutility of these blockships. What I stated was, that as line-of- THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MARCH 5,185 g. battle ships, as sea-going men-of-war, they are useless ships—("Hear, hear," from Sir C. Napier)--but they are by no means useless as floating batteries. They are very powerfully armed, and in the event, which I hope will not occur, of England's being engaged in any naval war, these ships, defective as they undoubtedly are, would be found extremly valuable as floating batteries for the protection of our harbours. (Hear, hear.) I am, however, quite ready to admit that I do very much wish that, even for their present purpose, I could see these ships succeeded by more effective and more useful ones. (Hear.) I think that would be very desirable, but I must ask the gallant admiral to make some little allowance for the shortness of the time during which I have had to deal with these matters, and the amount of work that has had to be accomplished in that time. It is the wish and intention of the present Board of. Admiralty that, at all events as the commissions of these ships expire—l will not say that under some circumstances it might not be done sooner, but at all events as their com missions expire—they should be replaced by stronger and more effective ships. (Hear.) At the same time I cannot, for several reasons, agree with the gallant admiral that it is expedient simultaneously to exchange all these blockships for larger and more effective men-of-war. Inthe first place, looking to the duties which they have to discharge as train ing ships for the coast volunteers, who are there instructed in gunnery, and the consequent wear and tear to which they are exposed, I was unwilling, considering the state to which our effective strength was reduced, to expose one-third of it to such deterioration. By the end of the present year our line-of-battle ships will be nearly 80 per cent. stronger than I found them, and I shall then be more at liberty to deal with matters of this kind. There are also other reasons to which I murt request the attention of the gallant admiral. One of these is the great expense which would attend the paying off and throwing out of commission nine ships of this class, and commissioning other ships in their places. That is a consideration which we must not altogether for get. But there is another, to which I attach greater im portance—viz., that we cannot effect such an exchange without making a very considerable demand upon the strength and laour of our dockyards. From the causes which I explained the other evening our strength in the dockyards has been, and is at present, so taxed to supply the defects to which I then alluded, that unless it was imperatively necessary I should be unwilling to throw upon them the additional labour of pre paring an additional number of ships merely to sub stitute—for that is all that I should have it in my power to do—screw 80's for these blockships I hope this explanation will be satisfactory to the gallant admiral. In the course of his observations he travelled a good deal beyond the terms of his notice, and referred to the reserves which we have it in our power to call out. Ido not think that this is quite a fitting moment to discuss that subject, and I will therefore limit myself to saying that in this re spect her Majesty's Government are more willing to go a-head as the gallant admiral calls it, than he gives them credit for. At all events, I can assure him that their atten tion is et present directed to'the state of our naval defences, and I earnestly hope that at no future day will the gallant admiral have cause to reproach us with having neglected them. It now only remains for me to answer his question as to when it is the intention of the Government to put in force the recommendations of the4Commission upon the manning of the navy. I will answer thatquestion. as frankly as I can. In doing so it is not necessary for me to become the apologist or champion of my right hon. friend the mem ber for Carlisle (Sir J. Graham', who is well able to defemi himself ; but I must say that I think the observations of the gallant admiral were eminently unjust to my right hon. friend. (Hear, hear.) In fact, his remarks with regard to the report of the committee of 1852 were quite incorrect. He said that the report of the Duke of Northumberland's committee of that year had been locked up, and no notice taken of it. Now, upon every occasion on which I have addressed the house upon this subject since I held my pre sent office I have acknowledged the services which my right hon. friend the member for Carlisle rendered to the country, when First Lord of the Admiralty, by taking most decided action upon the report of that committee. It is owing to the action then taken by her Majesty's Government, by the adoption of the continuous service and coast volun teer systems in accordance with the recommendations of that report, that our means of manning the navy at this moment are what they are. The gallant admiral seems to have forgotten these facts, and has consequently dealt rather hard justice, not to the Government of which I am a member, but to a former one, the members of which certainly did their duty nobly in this respect. When the hon. and gallant admiral asks me when the Government intend to pit in force the recommendations of the Commis sion for manning the navy, I beg to remind him that the report of the commissioners consists of two distinct parts. The latter portion refers to the important question, how we are hereafter to connect our naval service with the mercan tile marine in the event of any emergency arising. The hon. and gallant admiral will admit that that portion of the report is of a very comprehensive and complicated charac ter. It involves a great outlay of public money ; it involves considerable changes which must be maturely weighed ; and the measures which it recommends are of a nature which no Government could carry out upon the instant. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances I cannot say more than that we are sensible of the importance of the report, and shall give it full and prompt consideration. The other part of the report stands upon different grounds ; it consists wf suggestions of different modes in which the commissioners think we may make the present continuous service system more effective for the public interests. I admit the great value of those suggestions, and with regard to most, if not all of them, I believe it to be competent to the Admiralty, without the assistance of Parliament, at once to carry them into effect. We are prepared to consider them as expedi tiously as we can, and, if they meet our approval, to put them in execution as promptly as possible. (Hear, hear.) Some of them, in fact, have been already under our consi deration ; a very important one engaged our attention to day, and I hope to-morrow we shall be in a condition to act upon it. (Hear, hear.) Sir C. NAPIER explained that he had never read the report of 1852, nor had he ever seen anybody who had done so. Lord PALMERSTON—I am glad to find that the right hon. baronet and my hon. and gallant friend are perfectly agreed as to the expediency of replacing the floating batteries which are stationed at our different ports by effective, ships, and that the only material differ ence which exists between them relates to the question of time. I think the right hon. baronet has overstated the dif ficulty of exchanging the one class of ships for the other, because he admittd what was stated by my hon. and gal lant friend, that the effective ships which are proposed to be sent to our ports in lieu of the floating batteries are now ready for sea. Sir J. PAKINGTON—The noble lord is mistaken ; they are not ready for sea. Sir C. NAPIER—Some of them are. (A laugh ) Lord PALMERSTON—I presume they are nearly so; at all events, as appeared from the statement of the right hon. baronet the other night, there is nothing which the Government desires so much as to be able at short notice to send to sea an efficient Channel squadron. Now, though it may be true that the block ships would be effective as floating batteries for the defence of our ports, they are evi dently not fit to take their posts in a line of battle. I hope we are not anticipating at an early period ache necessity of defending our ports by block ships against the attack of an enemy ; the only thing likely to happen is that a superior squadron should appear in the Channel, and that we should not have a fleet of equal force capable of taking the sea im mediately and acting its part in the usual manner of naval engagements. For such a purpose the block ships are use less, and therefore I would impress upon the right hon. baronet the expediency of accelerating the substitution of the one class of ships for the other. Ido not know whether an additional number of workmen might be obtained for our dockyards, but, as the -right hon. baronet has admitted in principle that which my hon. and gallant friend has re comnattaded, I hope that as little time as possible will be allowed to elapse 'before the floating batteries are replaced by ships fit for sea, so that, if occasion should arise, we may have a fleet in the Channel adequate to the national defence. Mr: CORRY remarked that the only ships which could be substituted for the steam guard-ships were the 80-gun ships, for nobody would think of putting our three-deckers to do outpost duty along the coast. Now, the 80-gun ships were all, with one exception, in the second-class steam re serve, and it would be necesssary to mast and rig them be fore sending them to sea. The expense of fitting them out would amount to £144,000. Sir C. NAPIER—Why, all the stores are already in the dockyards. Mr. CORRY said it was true that the stores were in the dockyards, but they were not on board ship ; and he could assure the hon. and gallant admiral that the 80-gun ships could not be equipped without great labour and expense. Mr. BRIGHT—The First Lord of the Admiralty has not answered the question of the noble lord the member for Woodstock, with respect to the expense of the squadron which it is proposed to station in the neighbourhood of the Australian oolonies. The hon. member for Yarmouth, who spent several years in those colonies, has given us a pleas ing picture of their condition. lie says they have every thing they want, with a single exception, that with which it is now proposed to furnish them. (A laugh.) We know that they have all the land of Australia, and a constitution so free that the people of England are not permitted to hope for anything like it. We also know they have an increasing trade, and enjoy a pros perity such as is not equalled in this country. The rate of wages--everything in those colonies—forces us to the con clusion that the great body of the people there, those whom we should call the working and industrious classes, are in a condition of comfort equal to that of the middle ranks of society in this kingdom. Being so happy and prosperous, if there be one thing more wanted, and it consists of ships of war to defend their coasts and harbours, I think it is but fair they should pay the expenses. (H ear , hear.) It is one of the most monstrous things ever heard of', and probably has never been dreamt of in anycountry but this, that we should have an extended empire, abounding in colonies, such as Canada and Australia, where the people are infinitely better off than we are, and yet should contribute not a single far thing in any shape either to the sums necessary for paying the interest of the national debt incurred in past wars, or for the naval and military service of the home country. If they are to be parts of the empire, and allowed to demand mili tary succour, I do not say even in time of war, but in time of peace—regiments upon their shores and fleets upon their waters—l say every farthing of the cost they ought to defray themselves. (Hear, hear.) I protest against this constant loading of the industry of the people o England for the purpose, whether of protecting our rich and prosperous colonies, or of merely gratifying the taste and sentiment of persons living at the other side of the world. If we persist in the course which we have been pursuing for the last few years, and if the expense of our naval and military estab lishments is to increase as it has done during the last 20 years, by a sum equal to £10,000,000 or £12,000,000 per annum, notwithstanding the tranquillity which now exists, the time will conic when somebody will see that " ugly rush" to which the right hon. member for Oxfordshire referred the other night, and when there will be a ferment among the millions of our people which all the excited and exag gerated fears of the hen. and gallant member for South wark will be little able to compose. (Hear.) You have been telling the house for years past that the only Power in the world which has a fleet of any pretensions whatever is -your cordial ally. You have flattered him, you have fawned upon him, you have expressed your faith in him in every form of words of which the English language is capable ; but at the same time you are con stantly increasing your military and naval expenses, for which there would be no sort of pretence whatever if a single sentence of what you say were true, or if you believed your own statements. I sa y y our con duct i s mons t rous . Youatrnr yseGh l rf a oe y egt i ;i n vien g teenn f ,e l it s lN e hlv both ogi t nN e kr hee y pve o etnuiGoawlortlee with n a n iomt d fhe tn t ah o t est tt y nrw o od l no l T rpgl e :dhl O r : lhil hand l aads : pecies s g n j o re th he e n e d x e p d en th se e o o f brought disaster upon thrones and States. (Heltr, hear.) Sir E. B. LYTTON—The hon, member for Birmingham perfectlyNvte t icl a : ry ls"n d i e et f s ence. 1856 Sir Wm. Denison proposed a pla i n made to the a v th ert ei u r re na s v m al for the naval and military def ence of Australia. According proposedthe naval tlamotd theinuitay colony rfo r s o h e ou r l e d qu t od a t for r l c olonial defence, and th a t th e Imperial Government should pay th e co g of what was necessary for imperial pur tthoet purelyhat expense plun of poses. In fact, it has been the object both of my predeces sors and myself to urge upon the colony the necessity of contributing. largely towards its defence. (Hear. hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL very much agreed with his hon. friend behind him, that the colonies of Australia should provide some means for their own defence. Some years ago, when Secretary for the Colonies, a deputation came to him respecting some expenses for the harbour of Sydney, and he told them they ought to pay for them themselves. They expressed great readiness to do so, and he believed that since that time every Colonial Secretary had told the Australian colonies that if they did not want to be surprised by seeing a number of foreign ships of war some morning before their ports, they ought to take means to defend the approach to the harbours. (Hear, hear.) To expect that this country should be laying taxes on the people for that purpose was not right. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the motion of his hon. and gallant friend for the pur pose of replacing the guardships by other and more efficient vessels, he thought the answer of the right hon. gentleman opposite was satisfactory. (Hear, hear.) It must be left to the Admiralty to take steps from time to time as they found opportunity, but he could not say that he was satisfied with the answer with respect to the im portant report on the manning of the navy. He did not expect the right hon. gentleman to go into details at pre sent, but on some other day it would be desirable that the house-should know what was the opinion of the Board of Admiralty with respect to these important recommenda tions. , Either the methods suggested for manning the navy were judicious or not, but he could not imagine that the right hon. gentleman was right in saying that such as the Admiralty could carry into effect - would be carried into effect, without referring to this house for additional ex pense. The commissioners estimated the expense, and they put down for improvements in the peace establish ments £lOl,OOO. Then, for 2,000 additional coastguard men, £116,52.5 were wanted ; for 4,000 reliefs in home ports,. £132,000 ; and for 5,000 short service pensioners, Marines, £45,625. He could not imagine, therefore, that it was sufficient for the right hon. gentleman to say that the Admiralty would take these propositions into considera tion from time to time, and adopt them without asking the house for additional supply. (Hear, hear.) He did not, of course, now wish to give an opinion on subjects so im portant, but he thought that the right hon. baronet should fix some day, and state what was the effect of the considera tion by the Admiralty of that report, than which no subject was more important. The hon. member for Birmingham must consider that in consequence of the change in the mode of warfare it had been necessary to enter into a very large expense, and no question was more important than how this country might have an efficient navy, and how it should be manned. Sir J. PAKINGTON said he had been misunderstood by the noble lord. Certain recommendations involved great expenses, and therefore they must be dealt with by the Government, and not by the Admiralty. Other re commendations referred to minor matters of detail, and it was with respect to them that ho said the Board of Admi ralty was competent to act of itself. With respect to the recommendation of the reliefs of 4,000 men, he proposed, when he moved the navy estimates, that the house should sanction that proposition to the extent of 3,000 men. Mr. HORS3IAN said, it was not satisfactory to be told in consequence of the improvements introduced into naval warfare, that now for the first time since England was a great maritime country this country was without that su periority at sea which would enable her to protect that com merce on which the very existence of England as a great nation depended. (Hear.) Without saying whether or not England was likely to remain on friendly terms with her near ally, still this country was in such a condition that if any unexpected emergency should arise she would not go to war without the greatest danger of a disastrous issue, from which she could not recover during the lifetime of any man living. He was, therefore, very glad when attention was drawn to the insufficiency of our naval defences, and a heavy respon sibility would fall on any Government or Board of Ad miralty that delayed ono single day to strain an effort to place the country once more in a state of maritime security. (Hear, hear.) Let the house consider the mischiefs of an interruption to our commerce and manufactures by the com mand of the Channel by any other naval power for two or three months. He would ask them whether any expense necessary for the improvement of the navy, was not a mere trifle compared with the enormous consequences which would follow such an event as he had alluded to. (Hear.) Mr. H. BARING hoped that the Government would give some satisfactory explanation to the house of their intentions with respect to the recommendations of the com mission on the manning of the navy on the subject of the coastguard. _ _ Mr. LOWE said that so long as the home Government disposed of the resources of the Australian colonies, while they were, in fact, our penal settlements, no steps were taken to provide them with defences of any sort. One or two at tempts were made to fortify the entrance to Sydney Har bour, but they were failures. The colonists now were anxious to have defences, and ready to pay for them, but it was not unreasonable to ask for one of the old liners, which were rotting in our ports, to serve as a guardship for the harbour, and a naval school for the youth of the colony. He hoped the lecture of the member for Birmingham would not deter the Admiralty from making these colonies a station for a com modore. We had stations on the coast of Africa and on the coast of South America, and surely we might afford a squadron to protect the gold ships on their passage to this country. It had always been a matter of astonishment to him that a fillibusterincr b establishment had not been set up somewhere about the Straits of Magellan. No business could be carried on with greater ease, or with more profit. (A laugh.) It might be the duty of the colony to pay for its own defences, but it never could be its duty to find fleets to defend the trade of the home country. (Hear, hear.) Colonel SYKES was constrained to agree with the hon. member for Birmingham that a period of disaster would arise in this country if the disbursements went on increasing after the ratio of the last twenty years. (Hear, hear.) This increase could only be met by increased taxation, which the people of this country would not bear. The expenses of the colonies were a material portion of the disbursements, and he was glad to hear that they were making arrange ments for their own defence. Admiral WALCOTT thought there was, after all, very little difference between the gallant admiral opposite and the First Lord of the Admiralty. He hoped the First Lord would direct his attention to getting the ships now in the dockyards finished off as soon as possible. It was abso lutely essential that the house should, before sanctioning any further expenditure for ships, be satisfied that the Admiralty would build ships on a plan that would ensure speed. We ought to dispossess ourselves of the notion that our naval force was inferior to that of any other Power. (Hear.) It was not respecting the character of our ships, but the manning of them, that we need have any apprehen sions. (Hear, hear.) The most magnificent ship ever built would be perfectly useless unless it were alive from stem to stern with efficient officers and seamen. Induce. ments ought to be held out to our seamen which would make them proud of the navy. He had no fear about the manning of our ships if the Government made it worth the while of the men to enter the navy, and firmly believed that England would be found equal to any crisis. (Cheers.) Sir F. SMITH thought that the hon. and gallant admiral opposite should be satisfied with the promise of the First Lord of the Admiralty as to the removal of the blockships. General CODRINGTON thought it should be left to the Executive to say where particular ships should be stationed. The country was a little disappointed that we had not a more extensive Channel fleet. (Hear hear.) We ought to have a larger Channel fleet, not m ere ly to show that we had such a fleet, but to afford opportunities of practising to our officers and seamen. That practice should be constantly maintained, and gunboats should be practised with the ships of the line': (Hear, hear.) The house then divided on Sir C. Napier's amendment—, the numbers were— Ayes Noes .. 74 Majority against the amendment.... 37 The Speaker then left the chair, and the house went into committee of supply. ARMY ESTIMATES. General PEEL (who was very imperfectly heard) said, before entering into any explanation of the estimates it was his duty to lay before the house, or drawing any compari son between the past financial year and the present one, it was necessary the house should perfectly understand the reasons of any apparent discrepancy in some of the amounts. The whole amount voted last year for the army was £11,577,755. The total estimate he should ask for to-night was £11,568,060 ; between these sums there was a difference of £9,695. Any one not accustomed to examine the details of estimates would naturally come to the conclusion that the £11,568,060 the house would be asked t., vote was the full expenditure; but this would be an error; the full amount on the face of the estimate was £12,64060. The difference of £1,100,000 was made up of the sum due froni the East Indian Government to the Home Government for ;he pay of the regiments serving in India; this would be available for the reduction of the expenses of the present year ; the sum available for the same purpose in the ensuing year would be £700,000. The money due from the Indian Government was the debt incurred for the cost of the drill, rations, and clothing of the extra regiments sent to India, which for six months was charged against the Indian re 7 venue. That cost was for each infantry soldier £lB is.; for the cavalry of the lino £3l 13s. 11d. per man ; Royal Horse Artillery, £73 Bs. 9d. ; field batteries of the Royal Artillery, £5O ss. ; and the Royal Engineers, £B4 2s. sd. per man. This large sum of money due from the Indian Government would be deducted from the gross estimates of the present year. In addition there was a reduction in the expense of tho transport of troops, amounting to £200,000. The ensu ing year was also leap-year, and the difference of the one day made a difference in the expenditure of nearly £20,000. But the amount of the estimates was entirely governed by the number of s men required for the service of the country The vote required for the pay and allowance of the land forces for the ensuing ye ar was £3,724,474; for miscella neous charges, £562,369; for clothing and necessaries, £400,000; for provisions, forage, fuel, light, barrack fur niture and bedding, £1,003,604 The estimates under all these heads were mere matters of arithmetic, according to the number of men composing the land forces of the coun try. The numerical force of the army regulated nearly all the votes for the army ; it was .remarkable how very little the Secretary of State had to do with controlling estimates. Even the money expended in works and fortifications was nearly all votes sanctioned and fixed by the house, and the Secretary of State had no power to alter or reduce them ; Practically, out of a total of £12,000,000, there were not £2,000,000 over which the War Department had any power, or in which it could make any reduction. As the number of men must always be the basis of the estimates, in stat ing what that number would be for the year ensuing, he must observe that this was altogether an exceptional year; he did not think it possible to ask a greater or smaller num ber of men than he was about to require. The total num ber of men to be voted for the ensuing year, for the whole British army, was 229,557 ; this was an increase on the strength of last year of 6,683 men, the number of the army in the past year having been 222,874. He had really no p-,wer to increase or diminish tho number required. 'ln order to show this it was necessary to go back to the state of tho army before the outbreak of the Indian mutiny. The army had then just been reduced to the peace establishment, and its strength was no greater than was required to per form the duties of the service abroad and at home. Only two branches of the service were much affected by the out break—the cavalry and infantry ; of these, the number of battalions and regiments despatched to India amounted to nearly 30,000 men; I2,regiments of cavalry, and 73 bat talions. of infantry were in India at the present time, leaving only 7 regiments of cavalry and 72 battalions of infantry to do the whole of the home and colonial duty. • But during the present year it was anticipated that several pf these regiments and battalions would be spared from India for the home service. It was important that the house should know the data on which this estimate was founded. He would, therefore, read a ;letter from Lord Clyde to his H.R.H. the Com mander-in-Chief, which would show that the calculation he had made was no wild speculation, or founded on mere con jecture, The letter was dated— " Allahabad, Nov. 1, 1858. " In short, I think I can now predict, almost with confi dence, that your Royal Highness's wishes with respect to the return of certain regiments may be accomplished early in the spring without real inconvenience to this country. I should imagine that it may be possible to dispense with the 86th from Bombay, the oldest regiment from Madras and from this presidency, in addition to the four already ordered to England by your Royal Highness. As the Bengal Light Cavalry ought to be almost fit for duty in the spring, I should hope that the 9th Lancers might also re turn home. Perhaps it might not be safe to extend reduc tion further for this season." He knew there was great anxiety felt to know what regi ments were likely to return from India in the course of the next year. Those regiments would all be borne on the British establishment for the next year, and were, there fore, included in the number of men which the house would be asked to vote. They were the 9th Lancers, the . 10th Foot, the 29th Foot, the 32d, the 53d, the 78th, the 84th, and another regiment (the name of which, from the man ner in which the hon. and gallant general dropped his voice, it was impossible to catch). It had been necessary that he should come to some arrangement with his noble friend the Minister for India as to the number of regiments which should return from that - country in the course of the year; for if any number came home unexpectedly, or more came than had been provided for in the estimate, there would naturally be anexcess upon the British establishment. This would require either a supplementary vote to be proposed, or the Government would be obliged to reduce some of the second battalions which they had raised. He had, there fore, allowed in the course of the ensiling financial year for seven regiments of infantry now in India, and one additional regiment of cavalry. This would give 11 regi ments of cavalry and 66 regiments of infantry for the Indian establishment, and 14 regiments of cavalry and 64 regiments of infantry for th e B r iti s h es t a bli s h ment. H e trusted, then, the house would agree that it would be very impolitic, if not impossible, t o re d uce th e num b er o f t h ese regiments, or to vote a single man less than ho now asked for. He would next proceed to show that it would be equally impolitic for him to ask for a larger number of men. If they wished for a larger number they could obtain them only by raising additional battalions ; and there was every reason to believe, from the present state of India, that the British regiments would begin to return to England. There was not the slightest doubt that the Indian Government, look ing at the condition of their finances, would be happy to dispense with the services of our troops at the earliest pos sible moment. But under any circumstances, for a long time to come, he believed they would not be able to diminish the force in India below 50 battalions. If they carried out the system of reliefs—so essential to preserve the efficiency of the British army—which had been laid down, each regi ment would not be kept more than 10 years abroad, nor be allowed to remain less than five years at home. This re quired two-thirds of our force to be abroad, while the other third was in this country. [An Hon. MEMBER inquired how many men were included in the 50 battalions ?] Ho took the number at 50,000, though he could not pledge himself to the exact figures. Therefore to retain 50 battalions in India they must have 2.5 battalions more at home for reliefs, making together 75 battalions. It would be very unwise to add to the number of our regiments or to raise fresh regiments which we were not likely permanently to require, because, as soon as they became efficient, there was every probability that they would be again reduced, and moreover, before they could raise them, they could supply their place in the meantime by the embodied militia, who are always better than the new levies. Fault had been found with him because, as it was said, he intended to dis embody the militia lest they should become too efficient. So far from there being any truth in this statement, there was.nothing on which he and his Royal highness the Com mander-in-Chief had more prided themselves, than on the efficiency of the embodied militia, a force by whose aid we had been enabled to furnish very timely reinforce ments for India, and to which we were also indebted, not withstanding our great exertions for the suppression of the mutiny, to keep up in this country and in the colonies a number of men equal to our requirements. At the present moment there were no fewer than 93,700 troops belonging to her Majesty in India. He held in his hand a return of the troops on colonial stations between the years 1840 and 1855, In 1840 they amounted to 37,370 men ; in 1845 to 36,371; in 1850 to 35,942; and in 1855 to 28,592. At present the number was 38,711. He had also procured a return show ing the available force of all arms in the united kingdom, from 1820 down to last year. From this it appeared that the total force was as follows : Year. Men. 1820 . • .. .. 55,032 182.5 • • .. 37,622 1830 .. .. • . .. 42,973 1835 44 , 014 1840 .. .. • • • . .. 47,891 1845 .. . • .. .. 55,668 1850 .. . • • . .. 60,131 18.55 .. 58,477 1858 55,724 The total of 55,724 for 1858 was exclusive of the Indian depots and the embodied militia, 'which were separately stated. On the Ist of February last the number of regular troops in this country of all ranks, comprising. infantry, cavalry, foot guards, artillery, &c., amounted to 66,236. In addition to this there were no less than 16,427 men forming the depots of regiments in India ; besides 23,022 of emb o di e d militia, making together a force of 105,685 men, exclusive of marines, pensioners, depots of regi m e n t s b e l ong i ng t o th e army in India, and the Irish constabulary. He did not mean to say this was a body of men sufficient to place our military establishment on an equality with those of foreign nations. We never could by any possibility enter into a competition with foreign countries in respect to the number of men. What he said was, that her Majesty's Government had during the course of last year done all in their power to keep the largest obtainable force together ; and when he spoke of 105,000 men, he should remark that it was quite as many as we could find barrack accommoda tion for. He thought, therefore, it would clearly be impo litic either to reduce or to increase the numerical strength of our army ; and he hoped the house would have no hesitation in voting the number of men he proposed. He would now pass on to observe that more had been done for the welfare of the British soldier during the last few years than one could possibly have anticipated. Since he had himself been in the army the soldier had been better armed, better fed, better clothed, and better paid. More attention, in short. had been shown to his comfort in every respect. (Hear, hear.) He disclainied any wish to take credit to himself in this matter. He had found things in a state of progress when he acceded to his present office; and all that he had since done was to continue the work which others had begun. But there was no branch of the service which had not undergone important improvements. The spiritual instruction of the soldier had been provided for by an in crease in the number of chaplains. He was afraid that what he had done in this respect might not meet the appro val of the hon. member for North Warwickshirer-(a laugh) —though he would be happy to discuss the subjectwith that hon. gentleman. The education of the soldier had been carefully attended to within the last few years, and nothing could be more satisfactory than the reports received as to the results of these efforts. The soldiers were , anxious to learn, and their commanding officers gave them every en couragement to do so. The schools, the libraries, and the reading-rooms were well frequented, and the slight indul gence which his predecessor had granted and he had con tinued—viz., as to the introduction of innocent games of chess and draughts into the reading rooms had the effect of drawing the men away from the haunts of intemperance. On board the transports for India also means had been af forded for their amusement. Dictionaries of the Hindos tanee language had been supplied to I hem—(a laugh)—and where practicable persons had been appointed to instruct them on the voyage. Everything had, in fact, been done to raise the condition of the soldier, and promote his moral and intellectual improvement. Soon after he accepted office a warrant was issued raising the pay and improving the position of the medical officers, and its result had been that a very superior class of men, house surgeons from hos pitals, and men who had taken prizes in different schools, were now entering the army in that capacity. A commit :tee of that house had di rec t e d a tt en ti on to t h e i mportance rof attention being paid to measures which should prevent gisease as well as to its cure, and he had no doubt that rider the able superintendence of Dr. Alexander all the reobmmendations of that committee would be carried into effect. Great improvements had also been made in the Commissariat, which,. though small in numbers, as it must always be in time of peace, now afforded the nucleus of a department which might, whenever necessary, be easily and rapidly extended. It was intended that in future, at the great camps of Aldershst and the Curragh, the provisions should be received in gross, and the soldiers should be taught to help themselves, by being their own butchers and bakers, and in all 'respects having to act as if they were on actual service. (Hear.) Another improvement which would be made would be the subdivision of contracts, so that they might not be given for such large quantities that, as was now the case, they must always be taken by the same per son. By means of this alteration and the supervision of the officers of the Commissariat he hoped that the expense would be reduced, while the quality of the provisions sup plied to our troops would be improved. (Hear.) Of course, the country had a right to ask what means this military expenditure afforded for its defence. Upon his right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty must that defence mainly rest. (Hear.) It would be perfectly impossible to fortify the whole coast of England. (Cheers.) It was the duty of the Government to protect the great naval arsenals —Portsmouth, Plymouth, Devonport, Portland, and such place and also the mouth of the Thames ; but the id ea of protecting the whole coast was perfectly absurd. (Hear, hear.) It might be done as 'far as possible by providing moveable batteries, which to a certain extent would be very effectual in checking an enemy: but an attempt to prevent an invasion by fortifying the whole coast would be perfectly useless. (Hear, hear.) There was one feature on this part of the question of which the house had heard a great deal—he meant the intr. &talon of Sir W. Armstrong's gun. It was impossible for any one to predict what would be the result of the general introduction of that weapon into our army. In the course of - the summer he appointed a committee to exam i ne and report upon the different sorts of rifled ord nance which had been submitted to the Government. The report of that committee was entirely favourable to Sir William Armstrong's invention. The gun submitted to the Government by that gentleman was a breech-loading, rifled, wrought-iron gun, of peculiar manufacture, throwing a projectile which answered as either solid or hollow shot, as shell, or as common case. This projectile could also be modified so as to- be used by naval batteries and on board ships, and to have a very great explosive effect. The gun had great durability, he having himself aeon one which had been fired 1,300 times without the smallest injurious effect being produced upon it. The great advan tages of this gun were its extreme lightness, the extent of its range, and its accuracy. An Armstrong gun throwing a projectile of 181 b. weighed one-third less than the guns now in use discharging shat of that weight. The range of a 321 b. gun, fired with a charge of 51b. of po w d er , was a little more than five miles and a quarter—(hear, hear) — while the precision of the gun was still More extraordinary. The accuracy of the Armstrong glut qt 3,QQQ yards was &'s seven to one compared with the common gun at 1,003 yards; while at 1,000 yards it would hit an object every time which was struck by the common gun only once in 57 times ; therefore at opial distances the Arnistreng gnn was 57 times as accurate as our common artillery. (Hear.) Its destructive effect, also, exceeded anything which had hitherto been witnessed ; the carriages had been very much improved, and their introduction into the navy would greatly diminish the number of men tiefliglT4 tp work flip guns. (Hear.) Having ascertained the superiority of the tern, the Government could have no hesitation in at once doing everything in their power to make themselves mas ters of it, Great as had been the ingenuity and talent dia, played by Sir W. Armstrong in regard to this invention, they w ere exceeded by the liberality with which he at once presented to the Government the patent, for which they must b ave paid almost any sum which he liked to demand. He made no stipulations, and when his noble friend at the head of the Government asked him (Gen. Peel) to think of some aura which might be presented to Mr. Armstrong, he was at once relieved from all difficulty by that gentleman proposing to accept a suns of £20,000 spread over 10 years, which w Auld secure to the country his services as consult ing engineer of rifled ordnance. For himself, as he had said, he wade no stipulations, but for the firm to which he then, but ao longer, belonged he made this arrangement, that if the:,7 erected extensive buildings for the manufac ture of thes e guns, and did not receive sufficient orders to cover the e rpenditure, an arbitrator, who should be the Attorney-G eneral of the day, should decide what com pensation they should receive from the Government for the capital which they had laid out. (Hear, hear.) He was eters vinced that the house would be of opinion that nothing could be more liberal than the manner in which Sir W. Armstrong had dealt with the Government ; and would think that he well deserved the honour which, by her own special and personal desire, had been con ferred upon him by her Majesty. (Cheers.) The manu facture of some of the larger of these guns was now being proceed ed with by Sir W. Armstrong's late partners ; it was also flu intention of the Government to make some of them at Woolwich under the direction of that gentleman, and when lthey had got some of the largest size they would be tried a gainst masonry and earthwork, till which was done it was. impossible to say exactly what effect they would pro duce upon fortifications. One thing he might predict, and that was that sooner or later they would supersede the whole existing armament of the country. He was afraid that the hon. member for Lambeth must make up his mind to a large expenditure on that account ; but he was sure that he would not grudge any money the expenditure of which would be for the benefit of the country. (" Hear, hear," from Mr. Williams.) It might also be necessary to reconstruct a great many of the existing . works ; but he would not trouble the house with any observations upon that subject. Nor would he now enter upon the considera tion of the different votes. When the house came to them in. regular order he would give a full explanation of the grounds of increase or decrease, as the case might be ; but in. the meantime would conclude by moving the vote of 122,655 men, exclusive of those employed in India. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that this was the largest esti mate for the army which had occurred for the last 30 years, with the exception of two years. In the year 1852 3 the number of men was 119;519, and the expenditure for this year was £11,560,000, being an excess of £2,546,000 over that for the year 1852.3, whilst the difference in the number of men was only 3,136. He should be glad to know the cause of this discrepancy. In the year 1854 the number of generals in the army was 234, but on looking into the arm list ho had discovered that the number was 500—("oh, oh") including those in the marines and in the Indian army. He thought the most nervous man in the country must feel secure upon learning that the disposable forces of the Go vernment, including the marines and the Irish force, were 168,000, besides which the Government had the power of calling out 80,000 militia. He would add nothing further upon this vote, but would follow the hon. and gallant general through the votes as he proposed them to the committee. Sir A. WILLOUGHBY wished to ask the gallant gene ral what was the regulation as to when the period of paying troops in depot commenced, and how many troops were in depot at the present moment ? He confessed he was not so much alarmed for British finance as for Indian finance. How was it that at that moment, when the mutiny in India was nearly quelled, 12 companies of foot artillery, number ing 2,000 men, were destined for the Indian service ? Slr DE L. EVANS (who was very indistinctly heard) expressed his approval of a considerable portion of the right hon. and gallant gentleman's statement, especially that portion which had reference to Sir Wm. Armstrong and the acceptance of his invention. He trusted the Govern ment would not delay making such arrangements as would enable them to have a large supply of the Armstrong cannon made. While agreeing upon this portion of the right hon. and gallant gentleman's statement, he still thought there were some points which called for explanation. With respect to recruiting, for instance, he suggested whether it might not be desirable to have a recruiting establishment entirely independent of the depots. The cause of the frequent de sertions which were admitted to take place in the army and in the militia called for serious consideration with a view to checking the evil. It might, he knew, be said that the facilities afforded by railways *ended to increase the evil, but surely some steps might be taken by precautions at the railway stations, or otherwise, to frustrate the attempts of those who desired thus summarily to quit the service. The system of recruiting in the militia exhibited very great mis management, and he understood that it was conducted in such a manner that the two services competed with each other for recruits—the line taking one side of the street and the militia the o th er . It seemed to him that the inducement to enter the militia ought not to be so great as to enter the line, because in the one case the service was but temporary and partial, and in the other continuous. The number of desertions, taking them at 20,000 for the army and the militia, was so large that it was evident there must be some thing extremely faulty in the system. (Hear, hear.) There was another subject upon which he thought the committee might desire some information, and that had reference to the great quantity of artillery under orders for India. He under stood the,hon..and gallant gentleman to say that 12 batteries were about to be sent to India, although it might be said that the mutiny had been entirely suppressed. Why 73 pieces of artillery, almost sufficient for an army in the field, were to be sent to India at this moment required some explanation. With regard to cavalry, it would appear that half of our force was in India and the other pretty nearly divided be tween home and the colonies. We had at present only 35 battalions and 5,000 cavalry at home, which was, compara tively speaking, a small force, but one which he hoped would not be reduced, as he had always been of opinion that the mass of our forces ought to be kept as much as possible in the centre., (Hear, hear.) The SECRETARY for WAR said, in reply to the ob.. servations of the hon. gentleman the member for Lambeth, that there were 500 general officers on the establishment, he had to inform him that the actual number was 262 only, or about half what ho had stated. Mr. WILLIAMS—I took the number from the Army List. The SECRETARY for WAR—With respect to the number in depots, the number belonging to regiments in India on the Ist Feb. last was 16,427, and the whole of the expense of their maintenance was borne by the revenues of India from the day on which they were raised. He had been asked by the hon. and gallant general the member for Westminster why it was proposed to a nd 12 batteries of artillery to India, but this step had been resolved upon in consequence of the recommendation of the committee that nonaore native artillery should be maintained. It was to do away with native batteries that it was resolved to send out so large a force of artillery to India. With regard to desertions, the total number of men who had been actually lost to the service from Jan. 1, 1858, to Dec. 31, was 9,607 ; of these 1,976 were restored to the service, leaving the num ber of men actually lost by,4esertion, 7,651, or aout equal to the number who had volguteered from the militia into the line. Sir DE LACY EVANS expressed a hope that the Go vernment would not' send out the battalion of the regiment of which he was colonel, for that battalion was 600 m,en under its establishment. The military force for last year was 92,000. This year it was 107,000, and this, too, in time of peace. General PEEL observed that the most urgent demand had been made by the Indian Government for troops, which had been sent not only from this country, but from the Cape and elsewhere, and their places must be supplied. He begged the house to recollect how little the militia—a most efficient body of men—had cost the country during the last year. Mr. S. HERBERT was not quite sure the statement on the army estimates made by his hon. and gallant friend General Peel was so unfavourable as it at first sight ap peared, for, as to desertions, an erroneous calculation might be easily made, by counting the different desertions of the same man as different men. One man, it was said, had de serted, and received bounties no less than 47 times. (Laughter.) The altered and improved condition of the soldier had not yet been impressed on the minds of the work ing classes, who were slow to take in those changes. Neither were they yet habituated to the alternative between short service and service for life. He was glad to hear the views of his hon. and gallant friend as to the sanitary condition of the army. Prevention was far better than cure, and this applied perhaps beyond any other body of men to the army. As to the Armstrong gun, he was of opinion that the Go vernment deserved the greatest credit for the manner in which they adopted this admirable and really unequalled invention. Some thought it better to wait until it would be seen if there were not further improvements, but nations could not afford to wait. They must get the best arms which the present time could afford. It was said the late Emperor Nicholas was of opinion that scientific skill would invent something which would supersede railroads, but in waiting for that something he lost Sebastopol. As to the Armstrong gun, he must say he heard strong doubts ex pressed whether it was as well fitted for naval as for mili tary warfare. The projectile which was sent with the greatest velocity did least injury to a ship. It was said that the Armstrong gun would discharge but a small-sized projectile, but that it would drive it right through a ship, making only a small hole which almost plugged itself, whereas the cannon with slower velocity sent a ball which often tore two port-holes into one. This ought to be well considered. (Hear, hear.) As to the amount of force, no doubt the estimates were very large, but they were not quite so large in amount of money as they seemed, for £450,000 were for guns belonging to the navy, and " £700,000 were for stores, which properly speaking ought not to appear in these estimates. He did not think that the police force of Ireland could be counted an available defensive force, because they could not with safety be withdrawn from theinosition. The army estimates this year were as large as the army,ordnance, and navy estimates of 1835, vet he must say he did not think they could be safely reduced. We had now got into a new cycle. The prestige of 1815 was broken in 1854. Since then Europe had resounded with the din of arms. There were enormous military preparations all over Europe, and a strong martial feeling was prevalent all over the Conti nent, war or peace being considered a mere matter of expe diency, and at the discretion of the rulers. The case was different in England, which would only consent to make war when immense interests and the notional honour were concerned. But the warlike feeling of other nations warned us to be prepared for emergencies. Ho would therefore support the estimates. Sir J. TRELAWNY complained of the uncertainty which the issue of warrants had caused in the army. The number of officers passed over, as the right hon. and gal lant general very well knew, was great, and they felt deeply the injustice which was inflicted upon them. A great grievance he had to complain of was that promotion warrants were read in different Ways, the Horse Guards putting upon them an interpretation very different from that which was usually understood. He did not think that there was any necessity for more than one inspector.. general of infantry, and with regard to fortifications three things alone were necessary, men, money, and mud. (Laughter.) Colonel NORTH defended the officers of the recruiting department from attacks which had been made upon them, believing that it was a most efficient corps. Sir DE LACY EVANS bore his testimony to the gallant and meritorious conduct of recruiting officers. Colonel BOLDER() was happy to hear of the improve ments that had taken place in the medical and commissa riat departments of the army. (Hear hear.) Mr. DRUMMOND eonstdc.rigl that the pensions at pro. sent granted were not outticient. 4. DIOOTT took the same view. Captain VIVIAN thoughtthat some bettermeans should be taken for the improvement of the system of recruiting, which as at present prAciised was a disgrace to our military chii,mtpv. General CODRINGTON thought it was a disgrace to kidnap men into a service when they ought to be an honour to the service. The plan ought to be applied to old novels instead of being put into actual service. In every other de partincnt IA on were given fair wages and a bounty, but in the army the country did not give fair wages, was not therefore obtained. (Hear, hear. and a:fair article There could be no doubt that the best reeruita were obtained from the agiicultural districts, the men being, in point .of stamina, i lci o t u s t pul moral character, the best that could be obtained. He thought that the recruiting system should be so con ducted that they should always secure the best men. With regard to our defences, the honourable and gallant gentle man remarked that we should be prepared by the Arm strong gun and otherwise for proper defence. The vote was agreed to. On the vote of £3,724,424 for her Majesty's land forces at home and abroad, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY deprecated any intention of sending an extensive European artillery to India. Mr. MONSELL was anxious to know what appoint ments on the staff were held by the Royal Artillery. It was very important that these offices should be well bestowed. General PEEL quite agreed with the honourable gentle man that the artillery should have their fair share of appointments. Mr. MONSELL—But the question is whether they have or not ? Sir DE LACY EVANS said it was a great mistake not I to give a fair share of appointments to the officers of the cavalry, that branch of the service combining the qualities of cavalry and infantry. Sir F. SMITH thought the engineers at least as deserv ing as the artillery. Mr. ArGITST US SMITH drew attention to theincrease which had taken place in the total amount for the home staff; which was this year £131,000, and inquired whether the gallant general could give any explanation of that in crease. He also pointed out an increase in the amount for staff appointments in Australia, Canada, the Cape of Good Hope, Gibraltar, and Hong Kong. General PEEL said the increase was owing to the im provements which had taken place during the past year. The medical warrants had increased the pay of the medical officers, and the commissariat warrants had increased the pay of the commissariat officers. He should be glad if the colonies could be made to pay for themselves—(hear, and laughter)—but while matters stood in their present posi tion he feared that was impossible. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said tho gallant gentleman had stated that the whole of the charges arose on the number of men voted. In a committee of the whole house it was im possible to enter into all the items, but he would call atten tion to a few of them. The vote for beer—and he did not object to give the men beer—(laughter and hear, hear) — was £4,000 more this year than last, though the number of men was 74,806 less. (Laughter.) The hon. member proceeded to call attention to several other items, which he thought required explanations. General PEEL having replied to some of the observa tions of the hon. member, The vote was agreed to. On a vote of £562,369 for miscellaneous charges for the land forces at home and abroad, exclusive of India, Colonel NORTH called attention to the subj ect of hos pital stoppages, by which he said the soldier was charged in excess of the actual cost incurred by the country on his behalf. Mr. WILLIAMS thought the salary of the Deputy Judge Advocate-General ought to be saved to the country. Mr. MOWBRAY bore strong testimony to the talents and efficiency of that officer and the value of his services to the public. The vote was then agreed to. On the next vote, of £150,000 for embodied militia, Mr. WILLIAMS asked for some explanation. General PEEL said that this sum was.to be voted for the pay of those regiments of militia which would supply the place of regiments of the line which were upon the establishment but were now serving in India, and were paid out of the revenues of that country. The amount was de ducted from the general vote for the pay and allowances of the troops. It might have been transferred fro, that vote by the authority of the Treasury ; but he thought that it was better that it should appear as a separate vote. (Hear.) The vote was agreed to. On the vote of £BB,OOO for volunteer corps in Great Britain, Mr. H. BERKELEY objected to the expenditure of so large a sum of money upon a mounted yeomrnry force, which was merely a toy of the nobility. These yeomen were, he was ready to admit, all as brave as Julius Caesar, but they were very bad soldiers and most inefficient con stables. (A laugh.) They were told it took three or four months before a trooper could be placed upon his horse, 12 months before he was fit to go into the field, and then he was not so good as he might be. Were these men born warriors, that they could be made cavalry soldiers in 48 hours ? It would be a farce to rely upon these men in case of invasion. The best thing would be to get rid of them— to take them off their horses, and to place in their hands the rifle, which was in modern days what the bow was in ancient times. Let the country gentlemen, then, put up tar gets in their parks, and place themselves at the head of their men, as their ancestors did in the days of Agincourt and Cressy. But while the Government allowed this tom foolery on the part of the squires and the upper classes, they turned their backs en the middle classes, although they had in many cases petitioned the Government to put weapons into their hands, so that they might be l earn t t o protect their wives and families against the foreign in vader. He would move that this vote be expunged. Col. KNOX said that a more indiscreet and absurd speech he had never heard in that house. (A laugh; and Hear, hear.) A force more constitutional in itself, and more useful in the event of invasion than the yeomanry did not exist. Mr. .WYLD believed that the middle classes had, by arming in 1815, prevented a French invasion. There was no reason to suppose that the people of this country, if taught the use of arms, would turn them against the Government. General CODRINGTON thought it of the utmost im portance that the people of this country should be taught rifle firing. (Hear, hear.) Advantage might be taken of the militia organisation to establish rifle corps in every county, and if that were done no invasion could ever be successful. (Hear, hear.) Sir W. WILLIAMS concurred in what his hon. and gal lant friend had said with respect to the advantage to be de rived from the establishment of rifle corps. He looked upon the yeomanry as a most useful and valuable corps. Mr. AYRTON appealed to the hon. member for Bristol to withdraw his motion, and to ask for a committee to con sider the propriety of establishing rifle corps throughout the country. Ho himself was in favour of a volunteer force for the defence of the country; but the yeomanry was a volun teer corps, and for that reason ought to be maintained. Mr. BERKELEY withdrew his amendment, having, as he said, attained his object—namely, to elicit an exprea • sion of opinion touching the necessity for rifle practice. The vote was then agreed to. On the motion of Mr. WILLIAMS, the Chairman reported progress, and the house resumed. • REGISTRY OF LANDED. ESTATES, &c. (STAMPS, &c.) The house went into committee and passed certain reso lutions relating to stamps on proceedings in connection with the registrylof landed estates and titles to lauded estates, on which to found a bill. MANOR COURTS, &c. (IRELAND), BILL, The house having resumed, this bill was advanced a stage. EVIDENCE BY COMMISSION BILL. On the motion of Mr. YOUNG, this bill was read a second ime. PUBLIC OFFICES EXTENSION. On the motion of Lord J. MANNERS, leave was given to bring in a bill to make further provision for enabling the Commissioners of her Majesty's Works to acquire a site for additional offices for the public service near Whitehall and her Majesty's Palace at Westminster. COURT OF PROBATE, &c. On the motion of the noble lord leave was also given to bring in a bill to enable the Commissioners of Works to acquire a site for the purposes of her Majesty's Court of Probate and other courts and offices. REMISSION OF PENALTIES. On the motion of Mr. HARDY, leave was given to bring in a bill to amend the law concerning the remission of penalties. NEW WRIT. On the motion of Colonel TAYLOR, a writ was ordered:to issue for the election of a commissioner for Stirlingshire, in the room of Mr. Peter Blackburn, who since his election had accepted the office of a Lord of the Treasury. The house adjourned at half-past 12 o'clock. THE APPOINTMENT OF SIR ROBERT HAMILTON. —The appointment of Sir R. Hamilton to a provisional seat in the Council of the Governor-General of India is to be commended. Sir R. Hamilton has rendered great services to his country by his political management of the Central Indian Provinces; and it is desirable that the Council of the Governor-General of India should always contain at least one member conversant with the affairs of the native States. It is probable that the appointment of Mr. Montgomery to the Lieutenant-Governorship of the North-Western Pro vinces will enable Sir R. Hamilton to take his seat as soon as he can proceed to Calcutta for the purpose. This will involve the appointment of another provisional member of Council; and as, in ordinary course, th e nex t vacancy w ill be that of Si r J. Outram, now senior member of Council, we presume that the next nomination will be that of a military officer.—Overland Why is the Lord Chancellor like the great lock in Chubb's window? Because he has many wards.— Kelly's Railway Guide. [ADVERTISEMENT.I — Hay's Oi and Pills— Shortness of Breath, Coldsollow Coughs.—Thou ntment sands of testi monials can be produced to prove the power possessed by these corrective remedies in asthma, incipient consump tion, and all disorders of the chest and lungs. The Oint ment, well rubbed upon the chest and back, penetrating the skin, is absorbed and carried directly to the lungs, where, in immediate con t ac t w ith th e w h ole mass of circu lating blood, it neutralises or expels any impurities which are the foundation of consumption, asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, &c. All pulmonary complaints arc thus easily cured. The asthmatic chest, heightened to suffocatidn in foggy, damp weather, is liberated by Holloway's Ointment and , Pills, which alike cure the short dry consumptive cough and the heavy expectoration attending bronchitis. BIRTHS. BLACKDEN.—On the 3d inst., at Quorndon, Derbyshi re , the wife of Frederick Chalfont Blackden, Esq., of a daughter. HuNTlNGTownn.—On the 3d inst., at Ham House, Surrey, the LadyHuntingtower, of a son and heir. REDRUP.—On the 3d inst., at the Brewery, Loughborough, the wife of George Redrup, Esq., of a son. TRACKER.—On the 4th inst., at 1, Upper Park-road, Hampstead, the wife of W. Thacker, Esq., of a daugh ter. MARRIAGES DESPARD—WDONALD.—On the 3d inst., at St. Mary Ab bott's, Kensington, Henry Parnell Moore Despard, Esq. of Rathmore Lodge, Earl's-court, Old Brampton, to Jessie, eldest daughter of the late Daniel M‘Donald, of Calcutta. MALLET — ITDNY.--On the 3d inst., at the Church of St. Stephen-the-Martyr, Marylebone, Charles, youngest son of John Lewis Mallet, Esq., to Louisa Tempe, the eldest ddau -at gh -lteraw of George Ud ny, Esq., of Lincoln's - inn, barris ter. DEATHS. ATKINso—On the 3d inst., at Brighton the Rev. Walter B. Atkins, incumbent of St. Mary IVl ag d a l en , H ar l ow , Essex. - "AcREO—On the 2d inst., at Queen-street, Cavendish square, Deliverance Dacre, E sq ., age d 94 , f ormer l y of Harwell, near Winchester. EXGLAND.—On the Ist inst., at his residence, Old Kent road, Mr. John England, aged 95. JENNINGS.—On the 3d inst., at Portland-terrace, Regent's park, Miss Jennings, aged 70. MONK.-011 the 3d inst., at Croom's-hill, Greenwich, l W. G. Monk, Esq., late Madras Civil Service, aged 73. WILLIAms.—On the 2d inst., at Caer HoWel, suddenly, William Parry Williams, Esq., late of H.M.'s 17th Foot, aged 29. LONDOiI : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the cotnty of - Middlesex, Saturday, March 5, 1859, L°' C LAND This the SA The Genera Meat 1 Several NOI TORS o Works, 29 th day Place of The ci lihould a from its GUI: at Guil One o'c Lots, of elusive,i 18, Para 4ff, 47, 48 Street, 1 Chapel -I No. 2, R, Plans obtained hall. THE ILor ITE. LAN D s '"AY .reat PRIM, tt A di 14 &Y be - l eer Tu Xvery "Elmira] der for ] iteo rqa steututs un of be Si WI East In Mixed, the Bei yard, 131 O" A Suc EPI tine,ed f been a( priaci r nomcee V~ „. • ['RAT licious cent. Naasnl the Tr King 'I sent fr THE Mk. V in tl HA. RC iir CA Sons, Midv him•• Dr his b SOR place pony cli i Diet theli and spri 100 ,