The Sun. — London, England, 1859-07-22 00:00:00

ewe, — expenditure and increased' retiponeibility ? (Hear, limit) If you had thought proper to join in freeing Italy, if you had been involved in the war,. you could not, as men of honour, as a community possessing self-respect, refuse to attend a Congress which was to wind up the results of your own energy and your own interference. But when, by good fortune, as some say, or by sound policy, as I maintain, your councils have saved you from that reopen sibility, are you at the last moment, from some vain senti ment, from some ebullition of disappointed feeling, to be entrapped into attending this Congress or Conference ; and are you to enter into arrangements and engage ments which must lead to increased expenditure and in creased per il to those finances which already required the severest criticism and the most careful administration ? There is one point which influences our expenditure which it a ppears to me is deserving of the best attention of the house. Let us see if there be not one of possibly still greater import ance connected with these public transactions and the expen diture of our finances, and which, in my opinion, this house would be wanting in its duty if it were to neglect. We have this peace, such as we know of it ; but I maintain that inas much as it gives us peace,and a peace based upon the exist ing equilibrium of power, it is one that ought to be satisfac tory to Englishmen and to statesmen. I know there are per sons who are dissatisfied with it even in this country, and cmiainly there are in other countries—honest and honourable men undoubtedly, but who upon political affairs take an exag gerated view, and cannot agree that in transactions of this kind men can be influenced by considerations of common sense. I know some people are disa ..inted. They expected that the Emperor of the French, a • . man Catholic Prince, the first child of the Church, and exercising, though by the consent and election of the French, nevertheless a despotic sway, was about to establish in Italy the Protestant reli gion and the British Constitution. (Laughter.) You can not argue with such persons ; but there are other persons also, in other countries, who are disappointed. Neverthe less, in respect to this ace, E regards Englishmen, Eng land, and Eng li sh interests; .1 maintain that the arrange ment, as a whole, is entitled to our respect. The arrange ment which gives us peace without the disturbance of the political balance of power is one we ought to welcome, if not with enthusiasm, at least with respect. I am told, in deed, that this peace is to be disapproved, and I have heard that it is disapproved by English statesmen, because— ti•..ular reason—the Emperor of the French has not real- IBM the programme with which he commenced the war. I should like to know whoever realised on a peace the pro e with which he commenced war ? (Hear, hear.) t r =re the manifesto of any State or coon (HM I care not under what form of government—(you may throw the United States of America into the bargain)—compare the original manifesto on which war was declared, and the avowed purpose for which it was waged, with the final paci fication, and I defy you to bring an instance in which the objects were fully or in a great degree realised. Take the late Russian war. (Hear, hear.) I heard the noble lord, the present Prime Minister, announce that he was most dis appointed at the way in which it had terminated ; and did he not send a special Minister to oppose the arrangements which were proposed by some of his allies, but which he stated to be in direct violation of the objects of the war ? You heard from the very moment that peace was entered into, not only in England but almost in every other country, lamentations that it was a war waged for a great purpose, which was only partially accomplished. I do not blame the peace made with Russia. I supported that peace, and I think that it was wise to make peace with Russia. Certain ob. jects of public benefit were attained ; and, that any rational man or Minister of State would no w impugns which conduct of our ally because he has entered into a peace which does not agree with his programme, is an unaccountable and inconceivable weakness. (Hear, hear.) Between the mani festo which declares war and the signing of the articles of a great many important events occur, and a great reaaleehappened between the manifesto of Milan and the articles of the peace of Villafranca, which, no doubt, might have modified the views of a successful conqueror or the most determined invader; and when taking a wise and mo derate view of affairs he enters into a peace, which I think has the elements of being a permanent one, is he, therefore, to be held up as a prince whom no one can trust, since he has not done that which no potentate or State had done, — realised the programme which he published before the war ? (Hear.) On our conduct in this respect entirely depends the financial position of this country. (Hear, hear.) I give credit to the Prince who signed the peace for the motives which induced him to sign it; and with respect to the peace itself, I ground on it a hope and belief that it may be permanent. (Hear, hear.) But let us do our best to make it permanent. It is a peace favourable to the traditionary policy of England, and it is our duty and interest to cherish and maintain it. (Hear, hear.) We ought not to encourage the maligners, who have not Eng lish interests or English traditionary policy to maintain, to act against our interests, and destroy that which the interests of humanity also require. (Hear, hear.) Giving every prince and potentate credit for sincerity,what should be the course of the English Government ? What ii the second point of policy which I pointed out to the House, and which it is our duty at this moment earnestly to im press on the Government to follow ? If we are to have peace--if peace hasbeen signed by one of the greatest actors in the war, on the ground that he shrank from the respon sibility of a general war—if these articles of Villafranca are animated by a sincere spirit, as I believe they are, what is the course for England to take ? Not to go to Conferences and Congresses in fine dresses, with ribands and diamonds and snuff-boxes (laughter), to enjoy the empty vanity of settling the fate of petty princes (hear), but to go to your great ally the Emperor of the French, give him credit for the motives which animated and influenced him, and say to him, " As you have terminated this war, and if you are in favour of peace, now join with us in securing that peace by the only mode by which peace can be secured—restore and even increase the good feeling which once existed, and I hope still exists, between the two countries of England and France, by a diminution of your armaments." (Cheers.) " If you are sincerely anxious, as we believe, for the peace of Europe and the world, we will join you in a spirit of reciprocal confidence, and by animating alike the industry of both nations we will thus achieve conquests more valuable than Lombardy or than those wild dreams of regeneration promised but never realised." (Hear, hear.) At the pre sent moment this policy could be pursued with great advan tage, for the house will recollect that the late Government were told that they could not boast of possessing the confi dence of the French Emperor. They were told that it was entirely owing to the absence of some of those distin guished statesmen opposite from the Treasury bench that Italy was involved in war. (Laughter.) If those statesmen had been in office it was well known that the Emperor of the French never could have taken a single step without consulting them. (Laughter.) Now, then there is a good opportunity for the noble lord opposite to act a great part, and, instead of going to Conferences and Congresses for petty objects, with respect to which England has no interest, but which may involve England in great disaster, let him prove to the world that England is a Power that possesses and exercises great influence, espe cially with France, by accomplishing what is much more important than mere formal articles of peace, by bringing about that which will put an end for ever to doubts as to the sincerity of princes, which will speak to every cabin and cottage in both England and France, as well as to the two Houses of Parliament and places of high resort, and prove to the national conviction of the great countries of Europe that peace is the tpolicy of their rulers. (Hear, hear.) Let us terminate this disastrous system of warlike expenditure. Let us mutually agree, with no hypocrisy but in a manner which would admit of no doubt—by the reduction of armaments—that peace is really our policy, and then the Chancellor of the Exchequer may look for ward with no apprehensions to his next budget, and the country may then actually expect the termination of the income-tax. (Cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he should, in reply to the right hon. gentleman, first address himself to the matters which were immediately connected with finance. He should dismiss from his consideration that portion of the right hon. gentleman's speech which had re ference to retrospective finance. No imputation had been cast on any of the proposals of the present Government, or on the right hon. gentleman in any of the remarks with which they were set forth. He would not attempt to fol low the right hon. gentleman through his figures, but when he spoke of a surplus revenue of a million and a half, it was a surplus of a description altogether new to him. The only surplus he was aware of worth discussion was a surplus of income over expenditure ; but the surplus spoken of by the right honourable gentleman dealt rather w ith fancy finance, and was merely a surplus of actual over estimated income. What ought to be considered was, how the money was to be got, and what money they would be obliged to spend. The right hon. gentle man es ti m ated his surplus at a million and a half ; it produced only £BOO,OOO, or about half that. He had to thank the right hon. gentleman for the spirit in which he had dis cussed his financial proposals; and he was rejoiced to hear him declare in terms so strong his objection as a general rule to the having recourse to a loan in circumstances like the present. He trusted that view would receive the'gene ral concurrence of the house. (Hear.) If he understood the right hon. gentleman right, he admitted they ought to proceed by raising new taxes, and considered that the in come tax ought to be a main source of the supply, but yet reserved to himself the right of objecting to it, and almost annonnced his intention of proposing a modification in what he called the mode of levying it, but what the right hon. gentleman described as the mode of levying the tax in fact involved the whole question whether they should borrow or not. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman said it would be unjust and impracticable to levy the whole of the tax in the first half year. As to the impracticability, he asked the house to have confidence in the able men at the head of the revenue department, without whose assurance as to the practicability of the measure he would never have proposed i t t• None of the difficulties attending the collection of the ax would be rendered insuperable by his proposal. As to the injustice the House of Commons had as much right to tax the count ry in respect of six months or seven, twelve, but that as of on t o pay upon was not done ;. people were merely called proposed t u o lt onai the first half year. The right bon gentle mant the last two lines of the first . resolu tion. The res ult of the tax, and thro w that would be to postpone the receipt that were done, of"' it over into the year 1860-61. If gap, and to do 80 t teurse money must be raised to fill the form or another. I f, would be obliged to borrow in one it was inconsistent the right hon. gentleman de clared,to go to the money lender for the honour, of the country so to go for two. He objeef:rd five m il lions, it was equally increase the financial burl to do anything which would on the year 1860. No pru dent man would wish to be r esponsible oa for doing so. He had not as yet had an opportunity the view he was disposed to take on i tin.g. 111117 to the house financial as to the increasing di ffi culties of the fin lightly of this coun try ;it was too serious a matter to be E t r eat ed , or dis posed of in so summary a manner by the right gentle man, who declared he considered the progress o f penditure to be natural and legitimate, and ought tiLe con tinue.x- He could not agree with the right hon. gentlem an. (Hear.) It was true social wants and social demandewr making new demands on the public purse. In the period up to 1853, the commencement of the Russian war, these demands had been increasing, but, thanks to the thrift and enconomy of public men, not tc such an extent as much to affect the expenditure, which was then about equal to what it had been for ten or fifteen years before. The case was very different since demands of every kind for, every purpose were admitted to such an extent that if the same course was pursued for the next fire or ten years, it would bring the finances of the country into a state of absolute confu sion —(hear)—and reduce the house to the necessity of im posing the most severe taxes in their highest degree, or hav ing recourse to borrowing to meet expenditure. He did not mean to say the civil service expenditure couldCbe reduced to the limit of 183, but the house should recall the spirit of wise economy which marked the first administration of the Duke of Wellington and the first reformed Parliament. He would not refer to naval and military es timates, but he would call the attention of the house to sonie instances to show what the civil service estimates would come to unless the house laid strong hands on them. A question had been tasked that evening about harbours of refuge. The report on that subject recommended a public expenditure of two mil lions and a half, and an advance of public money of a mil• lion and a quarter. Estimates of that sort always were so. Under this head alone they had an expenditure of five mil lions of public money and an advance of three millions. Again, public o ffi ces required to be built — on what scale ? Would they be content with the same expenditure as on that house ? (Hear.) They were to have a New National Gallery ; they had purchased Burlington House, but had not yet covered the site with buildings 'Worthy of the purpose for which they were in tended. He next came to their old friends the packet and telegraph contracts. Those contracts amounted to a million, of which £600,000 a-year was voted. The house was aware that these contracts were entered into by the Government and then submitted tothe house; when the present Govern ment came into office the found contracts pending to the amount of £600,000. (Hear, hear.) . He could not speak with such calm satisfaction as the right hon. gentlman of the growth of the civil service estimates. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman was also rather sanguine as to the naval and military estimates. According to him nothing was requisite but that the present Government should adopt the views and follow the measures of the late Government with regard to foreign policy, and all difficulties would vanish, and the income-tax might be got rid of. He could not agree in the broad assertionmade by the right hon. gen tleman or by the noble lord the member for Haddington shire as to the perfect wisdom of the measures adopted by the late Government in the complication of Europe or their perfect success. The right hon. gentleman said they had been vindicated by him. He (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) would not attempt to follow him through all the topics he had touched. He had flown far too high for a mere jour neyman hlrea Chancellorof the Exchequer, and he thought it would be better if some other occasion ha d been taken for a discussion on that policy. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman said he was glad to hear the new Government in tended to walk in the footsteps of the old. As a humble member of the new Government he had endeavoured to make himself master of the papers connected with the acts of the late Government, and must say the perusal left on his mind the clearest conviction that Lord Malmesburyhad applied himself to his task in the spirit of an English gen tleman and a lover of peace ; but as to anything beyond that, he must beg to be silent unless he was required to discuss the matter fully. He hoped hon. gentlemen oppo site would not try to compel their assent to sweeping as sertions, but would be con tent with the testimo ny they had received from the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs as to the aims and views of Lord Malmes bury, and not by continual vaulting leave them no alterna tive between the inviduous ask of dissection, or leaving it to be sup # < by their silence that they approved of all that had • done. The right hon. gentleman had gen deavoured to impress strongly on the Government the necessity of revivmgs or, he hoped he might say, of preserv ing the alliance which has so long prevailed between this country and France ; and of acting on that line which has become a law of the foreign policy of this country. The right hon. gentleman told them to require a diminution of armaments. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) believed he did not go beyond his duty in declaring the sentiments of his colleagues, that as soon as ever the state of Europe would admit of applying that wholesome and salutary test to those pacific intentions, that moment it would be the duty of the English Government to apply it. The right hon. gentleman said they would betray their duty, if they were accomplices in any congress—he made no exception as to the object of it—but gave a sweeping solemn denuncia tion dell congresses. Yet four or five months ago Lord Malmesbury had no rest day or night, sending despatches, recommending, enforcing, organising adjusting, seeking by hook or by crook to bring about a congress. He would not follow the right hon. gentleman into the discussion of the peace; he hoped and believed the peace would be lasting, but he must reserve his judgment. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman said fault was found with the peace because it did not fulfil the programme with which the war was commenced, but said no peace had ever done so. That view of history was new to him. (Hear.) The right hon. gen tleman said the Russian war did not fulfil its programme. (Hear, hear.) If the programme was to be f ound in the heated minds of some men, no doubt the peace did not fulfil it ; but if the programmes were to be drawn from the manifestoes of Sovereigns, the treaty of Paris more than accomplished every object put forth by the Sove reign of England in her manifesto, and much more. (Hear.) There was nothing in that manifesto about the destruction of the fortress and arsenal of Sebastopol ; nothing of a prohibition of a Russian fleet in the Black Sea; nothing of a cession of territory by Russia to the Danubian Principalities ; yet all these were accomplished by the war of 1856. (Hear, hear.) Did not the great re volutionary war fulfil its programme ? Some of them set out with a purpose to restore the Bourbons. Mr. Pitt never went so far; he only wanted security againstFranee. Yet he not only obtained that security, but the Bourbons were restored, and that in the manner most flattering to-the na tion—by the presence of a foreign army. He did not share the right hon. gentleman's views as to the congress. As to the preservation of peace, there was one point which he must urge on the house and on all classes—the duty of preserving the greatest moderation in word as well as in deed. (Hear.) It was the duty of the Government to strive to make peace permanent in Europe. In that object he hoped they would have the cordial and hearty co-operation of the right hon. gentleman; but her Majesty's advisers must claim for themselves, with regard to the measures they should adopt, perfect liberty to form their conscientious judgment, when they were in possession of greater lights and more extended knowledge than the circumstances of the present day afforded them. Mr. BRIGHT was not sorry to have had an opportunity , of hearing the right hon. gentleman before he himself ad dressed the house. There was much in the speech of the right hon. gentleman and that of his predecessor which gave him very great satisfaction. He must congratulate the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli) in having become a convert to the views so often expressed by himself and his hon. friend the member for Rochdale. (Hear, hear.) The late Sir R. Peel was once taunted with having become a convert, and any man of intelligence and genius who led the party opposite (none other could lead them) must every day tend more to the course of foreign policy he had felt it his duty to propound. The speeches of the right hon. gentle man and of the Chancellor of the Exchequer were divided , into two subjects—first, the question of the budgit, then that of the foreign policy. He would venture to make a few observations in the same order. The budget of the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been received with as much satisfaction as could fall to the lot of such an unpleasant proposal. His approbation of it arose principally from the fact that its arrangements were proposed to last for a year only. (Hear.) The right hon. gentle man said that next year it would be necessary to take a general and comprehensive view of the whole question of finance and taxation. Notwithstanding all the Chancellor of the Exchequer said of the ad vantages of the income tax, it was a tax hateful to the people, and hateful because it was felt to be unjust. He need not go into the question, but that the same tax should be levied on fixed and precarious incomes was felt by everybody to be a fixed injustice and a fixed wrong. (Hear.) As long as that rule was maintained he would never consent to have the tax made permanent. As it was now, however, taken for one year only to meet an emergency, he should not oppose it. He would be prepared when the time came to show that the tax pressed with double inequality on capital invested in trade or manufac tures as compared with capital invested in the cultivation of land. What would hon. gentlemen say to the fact that far mers in England were charged income tax on an assessment based on half the rent, but in Scotland on only a third of the rent ? The expenditure had grown from 50 to 70 millions. There was no reason why it should not rise to 100 millions if a different course was not adopted. In dealing with the subject of taxes, he would take the succession duties of every kind, probate or legacy duties, and succession duties under the act of 1853, as strictly property taxes. They were calculated, they were imposed on the property left by a man at his decease. They did not affect that unfortunately too large class who had nothing to leave behind them, but they affected anybody who succeeded to any property. The pro bate duty was a tax which fell only on personal property, and not on land or real property. If the subject came before the house next year he would bring this subject before them, and urge them to remove this standing com plaint. The probate duty produced a large revenue, and the return obtained on the motion of the hon. member for Lambeth, who had so often called attention to this subject, and so often attempted to remove the injustice, showed how heavy a burden it was on personal property. In 1853, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer introduced the Succession Duty Act, he referred to this subject, and it was believed he would have remedied the injustice • but nothing had been done, and since then £1,328,300 had: been annually raised from personal property exclusively. In 1856 people said there never was such a Chancellor of the Exchequer, and then they spoke with wonder of the feat he had per formed in passing the Succession Duties Act, by which landed property had for the first time been made liable to legacy duty. But what did the right hon. gentleman cal culate would be the produce of that tax ? He said that in 1854 he expected it would yield £500,000. In 1855 he thought it would produce £700,000 additional. In 1856, £400,000 additional ; while in 1857 and the following years he looked forward to its yielding 2 millions per annum. By the present time, therefore, they ought to have received from it no less a sum than £9,300,000. But what had been the actual result ? He would not give the actual figures, because the Board of Inland Revenue told him they could not separate with accuracy what they had received from the succession duty, and what they had received from the old legacy duty. But he would adopt a mode of calculation which the right hon. gentleman had himself employed the other night. The old legacy duty used to yield £1,380,000 , a year, whereas the legacy and the succession duty together yielded last year a sum of £2,211,000. That would show an apparent increase of £831,000 a year. But even from that they ought to deduct a certain sum for the natural increase of the legacy duty, and also for a class of property which used to pay legacy duty, but which the right hon. gentle man, under the name of rateable property, had transferred to the•succession duty, which it paid at a lower rate. The amount paid by this rateable property he had no means of computing; and he would only deduct £50,000 on account of the legitimate increase of the legacy duty. The result would then be that instead of £2,000,000 the right hon. gen tleman's new tax only yielded £781,000 a-year. How came that ? The fact was, it was not what it pretended to be. It was not a tax upon a fair valuation of each property as it passed from one party to another. It attempted, indeed, to cure one great inequality; but in so doing it established another almost as great and almost as offensive. He did not blame the right hon. gentleman for that. The measure was perhaps all that it wag possible for him to carry; but he did blame him for want of acuteness in estimating at £2,000,000 a-year a tax which only yielded £781,000. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Bright) would illustrate the operation of the law by the case of a man who left £20,000, half of which was in land, and the other half in stock, machinery, or other pro perty. He would suppose that this man left his property to a stranger in blood. Now how would the Board of Inland Revenue deal with the land? They would refer to certain tables in order to ascertain what was the probable value of the legatee's life ; they would then multiply the annual value of the property by the number of years they found he had to live, and charge him succession duty in the product. He (Mr. Bright) had himself been so fortunate as to have a small property left him by a person of whom he had no knowledge, and whom he had never seen. (A laugh.) He friend was, r of course, too grateful to be discontented that it was not of that war , more. e • It bad b e l onge d to a wh o wa s a great friend of peace, and person way of making sho disapproved of the Russian war. His hon. Cobden)and and he had b sen the strongest opponents was worth about herefore this gentleman left it to them by for £1,500 or £1,450 ; M a ; them z l o some compensation. (Laughter.) It having to pay so Israeli in fact, he remembered selling it was taken, the calculatiaons £5O so pay instead of the £:140 very much astonished he was at nin iva f s or succession duty. His age made, and he had £4O or which would have been de in t h h o e n f o u u n ra ds b . le ( m H e e m ar : mended had the property b een hear.) He would take another case. ber who sat on that side of the h se ouse ka w h i a , , t i ) had a property was not a blood worth £ 32,000 left him by a gentleman relation. The hon. member was not an old he was , in fact below the average age of members of tha t t he would only be called on to pay £7OO. (Hear, hear.) house ;lsrutas it e onsistent with fairness, with their personal honour, or with their public duty, to pass a law under which a class of property the most solid, the most durable, that attracted to it the best social and political advadtages, and that was n lost susceptible of improvement, was it right to charge such a property £7OO, whereas if it had been of another and a. far more fleeting character, it would have been charged £3,200. (Cheers.) He should object to any permanent re tention of the income tax until the whole taxation of the country was placed on a more satisfactory and honest foot ing. (Hear.) But the whole question was part of a larger and a more serious one : the growing and frightful expendi ture of the country. (Cheers.) The Chancellor of the Ex chequer said that up to 1853 therehad been no great increase for many years past. In 1853 the whole expenditure in the 'estimates of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) was only £50,782,000; whereas it was now £69,207,000, (Hear, hear.). It was only fair to say that the present estimates were charged with an expenditure which formerly did not come into them—a sum, namely, of £4,740,000 for the collection of the revenue. But even after making that allowance, the public expenditure had positively increased by no less an amount than £ 13 , 685 , 000 a year. (Cheers.) There could be no doubt that the most serious item of the increase was on account of our armaments, the charge for which had risen from £17,000,000 to £26,000,000. (Hear, hear.) Now, he should like to ask the house a few serious questions on this state of things. Did thehouse, forinstance, believe that we were more or were less safe now than we were in 1853 withregard to foreign war, and particularly with regard to the invasion of the country ? He knew that we had men amongst us who were afflicted with periodical panic. (" Hear," and a laugh.) There was no complaint so in curable as that ; and each fit seemed so to weaken the con stitution of the patient that each became more ' and more alarming than the last. (Laughter.) Then we had newspapers. (Hear, hear.) We had one in this City con nected with a particular trading interest, which, from day to day, from week to week, and from month to month—he knew not at whose instigation, or whether at anybody's in stigation, poured out most foolish, but at the same time most bitter invectives against the Einperor of the French, and by that means against the French nation. (Cheers.) Whether we approved of such a Government as there was in France or not, it was clear that if we had such a Govern ment, and if we had foreign neighbours who were constantly insulting that Government, depend upon it we should take a great portion of those insults to ourselves. (Cheers.) Take another paper, the Times, which most unfortunately, but most untruly, was believed abroad to represent the opinions of the English nation. (Cheers.) Day by day, every form which the English language could express was used by that paper for the purpose of stirring up animosity between the two greatest nations on the face of the earth. (Cheers.) And yet in that very paper they had published letters which told of acres of bleeding and mangled human bodies over which cavalry had galloped, till universal humannature shuddered at the tale. If this sort of thing went on, nothing could pre vent our being embroiled in war with France. (Cheers.) But these doctrines were not confined to thenewspapers. If they went into another, and what was commonly supposed to be a higher place, they would find some aged peer deli vering a speech which might be somewhat in character with the barbarism of 60 years ago, but utterly unfit for the times in which we lived. No intelligent man in Europe reading speeches of that character, whether made in that house or in another place,. could fail to come to the conclusion—false utterly false, as in his conscience he believed it would 1 be— that there was in England a number of men, representing a large amount of public opinion, who had utterly forgot. ten the disasters and ruin of that great revolutionary war to which the right hon. gentleman had referred, and were ready to enter into another war equally costly in treasure and in soldiers, and with a result equally hopeless to Eng land or to Europe. (Cheers.) There could be no peace be tween Austria and France that would not be infinitely pre ferable to the evils of the war which had just concluded. When he heard of the peace he felt quite relieved io think that the species to which he belonged was no longer engaged . in so fiend-like a destruction of human life. The Emperor of the French had made a most valuable admission in that most remarkable speech which he had just pronounced. He said he had discovered that he was making ;war " against the mind of Europe." (Hear.) He (Mr. Bright) only wished that he had made that discovery three months sooner. (Cheers,) Again, the Emperor said that he had discovered the war was Assuming dimensions that were inconsistent with the interests of France. He (Mr. Bright) confessed that ha was surprised that the Emperor had not found out from the first that there would be a danger of such a result taking place ; but these two admissions proved to him (the hon. member) that the suspicions which had been so sedu lously Inculcated in this country against the Emperor of the French were altogether unfounded. (Hear.) He did not be lieve that the Emperor was at all anxious to enter upon a war with a nation strong in the poasession of 30 millions of united people—the most powerful, the most rich, and, all things considered, the moat satisfied with their government of Bay in Europe. (Loud cheers.) War was not the thing it used to be, There was a time when soldiers despised the makers of machines. There were in those days no garters, stars, or baubles to decorate men who made steam engines, or manufacturing tools, Bnt what had war now become ? It was no longer a question of personal prowess, or strength of body, or nerve, or quickness of eye, It had become a mere mechanical slaughter, and it would go on becoming every day more costly and more savage, until it broke down by its own weight, or until some government—he hoped it would be ours—suggested a general reduction of armaments. (Cheers.) Our foreign policy had hitherto been to be perpetually meddling. We never wished to annex any portion of European territory, but we maintained great armaments, so that when anything happened we might negotiate, intervene, advise, or do something or other with what was called " ati,effect equal to the magnitude and dignity of this country." (Laughter and cheers.) Well, that was exactly what the French did. (Hear, hear.) We built large fleets, then they built large fleets ; then we built larger, and so the thing went on. We had no right to blame them, nor bad they to blame us. We were both very silly, and it was believed in France that all the stir we were making about the national defences was merely to coverthe preparations we were making to invade France. (Laughter.) He had that day read a letter in which it was stated that all the coast between Dunkirk and another point was fortified and secure against any attempt to land an English army. Just before the Russian war broke out, the French wished to draw back, but we were not willing, and they stuck to the original proposal, simply from an anxiety to imitate the foreign policy of England. Subsequently we went to war with a more distant country—China—and again the French joined with us. In a word, the foreign policy of the Emperor might be described as ananxiety toimitate our own. (Hear.) With respect to the proposed conference, he thought that if we were merely to put our name to documents that were of no advantage to Italy or to ourselves, we had better have nothing to do with it, (Hear, hear.) The 36 millions of Frenchmen wh a were quietly engaged in their own industries were as anxious for perpetual peace with England as any English Christian could be for perpetual peace with France. He believed that the Emperor was no less anxious for peace, and he had no doubt that persons in France were utterly annoyed at the course taken by certain English newspapers. (Hear.) He trusted that her Majesty's Go vernment would throw away those old, ragged, worthless, bloody traditions, which filled the waggon loads of old papers that were to be found in the cellars of the Foreign office. Let us approach the subject like sensible Christian men. Let us tell him that the trade between the two coun tries was nothing like what it ought to be. Let us offer to remove the heavy duties which we had placed upon the greatest produce of France, her light wines. (Hear, hear.) It might be said that this would involve a loss to the re venue of £1,200,000 ; but what were one or two millions a year in a question like this? It would strengthen the Emperor against the only people he could not keep down, the monopolists and the protectionists of France ; for if he were enabled to say to them, " I offer you as customers thirty millions of the richest people in the world ," it would give him an irresistible power to make changes in the tariff of France, which would be as beneficial to us as to our neighbours. (Hear, hear.) He would be enabled to lock together two nations, so that statesman nor monarch would never again be able to throw the brand of discord between them. We should then be able to ask him why he squan dered away millions of his treasure in increasing his arma ments, merely to compel us to squander millions of our treasure to keep pace with him. He believed that if these considerations were honestly and frankly made they would be successful. (Hear, hear.) He was aware there were two or three men in that house who would say that these things were as the idle wind. But let them recollect that we were paying . £30,000,000 a year for interest on the debts incurred m former wars ; and that that added to the cost of our present armaments at home and in India, made up no less a sum than 76 millions a year. The tone assumed by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) and by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was one that would find a response in the hearts of millions of people in this country. He had never flattered the noble viscount ; but be did not think it was possible there could ever be a minister who could more effectually press upon the Govern ment of France the views he (Mr. Brigh t had been ex preseing. (Cheers.) It was not for the sake of those who lived in great houses or that sat in legislative halls that he made these remarks, but it was for the sake of those thou sands-of persons in this country for whom a state little above pauperism was the lot which awaited them from the cradle to the grave. (Hear, hear.) It was because his heart sor rowed beyond what language could express at the suffering which might follow from the foreign policy of the Govern ment that he prayed there might come soon some statesman who should take the steps which he had indicated, who should cement these two great nations for the future, who should show that 1,800 years of Christian profession was at last to be accompanied by something like Christian practice. (The hon. gentleman resumed his seat amidst loud cheering, again and again repeated.) Lord J. RUSSELL rose in consequence of what had fallen from his hon. friend the member for Birmingham, to say that he quite concurred with much which had fallen from him. He must say that he had seen with pain the at tempts which had been made to induce a feeling in this country against the sovereign, and he must add, against the people of France—(hear, hear) —attempts which could only produce amongst the French nation a feeling of animosity against the people of this country. He believed, on looking back to wars between great nations, that they had occurred less because there was any cause for dispute than because there had been some feeling of animosity between the na tions. A feeling which had roused all the pride which be longed to a great nation had often made a most trifling cause, a cause which a few weeks of diplomacy might re move, a source of calamitous war. It was, therefore, that he felt with his hon. friend that there was something dan gerous, not in the present disposition of the Emperor of the French, not in the present disposition of the people of ;hat country, but in the constant attempts which were being made to excite a feeling of jealousy with re gard to some deep plan which was being made against our peace and security. (Hear, hear.) Now he believed, with his hon. friend, that whatever reproach might be addressed to the Emperor of the French on the various questions of his foreign and domestic policy, he had been as regarded this country a faithful ally to us on trying and great occa sions. And he believed likewise that as each question arose it was his wish to obtain the concurrence and appro bation of the people of this country. (Hear.) He believed that he estimated the good sense and intelligence of the people of this country; he estimated duly cur power, and set great value 9n the feelings we entertained. These being his views with regard to the Emperor of the French, it was another question what we were to do with regard to the armaments to which his hon. friend had referred. He re collected 11 years ago, in the reign of Louis Philippe, who was the most peaceoble of the sovereigns of France, he called the attention of the house to the changes which had taken p l ace in the means of war, and reminding them that with existing meauz of crossing the sea we could no longer rely o n our position alone, In so saying he meant no offence to Louis Philippe, and in saying the same thing now he meant no offence to the Empercr of the French. He only said this—that we must bear in mind that we were one of the great nations of Europe, and that we must act in a way worthy of our position. He would net say whether itwould be wise or not in this country even to form one ea congress on the affairs of Europe—that was a matter which had yet to be decided upon. As his hon. friend said, this country ought not to be a Arty to any congress for the mere purpose THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MIN 22, 1859, of negotiating a scheme to which it had never given any assent. Such a course it would not be proper for us to take. 'But if there was in any country a feeling of dissatis faction and alarm, and a feeling existed that the presence of England would make a peace more solid and satisfac tory, then it would not be unbecoming in this country to interfere with the other powers of Europe to pro mote a satisfactory arrangement. His hon. friend had said that we ought to make some arrangement with France with respect to diminishing the duties upon French produce. He (Lord J. Russell) believed that so far as the Emperor of the French was concerned, be would be willing to diminish the protective duties, which he (Lord J. Russell) believed did more injury to the people of France than they did to any other power of Europe. But he thought it would be a dangerous and useless thing to enter into a discussion upon that subject. They might in so doing induce that party which, though weak and almost no longer existing in Eng land, was strong and powerful in Franee—the protection ists—to urge upon their countrymen that we were endea vouring to injure their industry for our own benefit. He remembered when this matter was brought before Sir R. Peel, who was at first inclined to think that diplomacy might interfere, but he ultimately gave it as his opinion that we ought to take that course which we believed would be most advantageous to ourselves, and let other countries follow us when they were convinced of the policy of the step we had taken. He should, therefore, be sorry to make this a matter of diplomatic intercourse ; the more so as he believed the Emperor of the French would, as far as he could, promote the views which were in accordance withthe policy which we believed to be the true one. He trusted that neither that which was passing from day to day, nor that which had passed in another place, would awaken feel ings of jealousy in any foreign power, but that the Govern ment might always be able to point to the representatives of the people in that house as in favour of the maintenance of peace throughout the world. (Hear.) Lord PALMERSTON did not wish to prolong the dis cussion, but he could not remain silent without noticing what had fallen from the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Disraeli), the more especially as it had already been more than once stated in that house. The right hon. gentleman repeated that which had been stated the other night by the late Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, viz. that he (Lord Palmerston) had said that the present ministry had nothing to do but to follow the policy of their predecessors with regard to foreign affairs. Now, he said no such thing. That which he had stated was that, so far as the question of neutrality— so far as the mere entry of England into the hostilities which were now going on was concerned, the Government were determined to follow the course of their predecessors. But so far from from giving them an unmitigated approval, he had expressly condemned the manner in which the late Government had conducted their foreign policy, on account of the leaning which they had exhibited towards Austria and against France, and the insinuations which they had thrown out more than once that England might be forced into the contest, and that if she were so, it would not be on the side of the allied powers of Sardinia and France. In his opinion the foreign policy of the late Government was in this respect faulty, and that was his opinion still.' He had no doubt that the Government acted with the best inten tions, that they had acted in accordance with what they thought right to the best of their ability. But it could not be denied that the language of the late Government was, upon all occasions, that of encouragement to Austria, and of defiance to Amoco. The meaning was in truth this—that in the event of England being drawn into the war, an event not improbable, the Government would take the side of Austria. Now he believed that had the Government taken the opposite course, had they intimated a leaning adverse to Austria, the actual breaking out of hostilities might have been avoided. He (Lord Palmerston) felt constrained to say this much, for the right hon. gentleman opposite had so often come down to the house with flourishes of drums and trumpets en this subject, that it was incumbent on him to place with clearness before the house what were the views of the present advisers of the Crown. The right hon. gentle man deprecated most strongly that England should be a party to any congress. That, as his noble friend intimated, was a matter yet subjeet to consideration. But when the right hen. gentleman expressed himself so earnestly against a congress, he (Lord Palmerston) could not help reccollect ting that the late Government had once proposed and as sented to the meeting of a congress. The right hon. gentle man said, "Don't go into a congress, or you will be involved with obligations which will be most embarrassing here after." But for what object was the congress to which the right hon. gentleman when in office had given his assent to be assembled, if it was not to be assembled for the settle ment of the affairs of Italy by engagements binding all Go vernments ? And the house had been told that wars did not accomplish the objects for which they were instituted. His right hon. friend had answered that argument, for he had pointed out that in the late Russian war this country had obtained advantages even greater than it had hoped to gain when it first went into that contest. And when it was said, as it had been by the hon. member for Birmingham, that England had induced France to go into that war, it was only right to point out that the dispute first arose through the conduct of France. Mr. BRIGHT explained. He did not say that England brought France into the Russian war. What he said was, that when France would have accepted the Russian terms, England induced her to go on with the war, because she did not wish it to be said that she had gone from her position as ally of England. Lord PALMERSTON would call the attention of the house to other instances in which we had interposed in foreign affairs, and our interposition had not been fruitless. We had interposed in the matter of the kingdom of Greece, and although the position of that country might not be all that was desired—(hear, hear)—still no one could deny that her situation was greatly improved from what it had been before we interposed. Again, we had interposed in the affairs of Belgium. The result was that the people of that country were well governed, as prosperous, as attached to their country, as it was possible for a people to be. We had interposed, too, in the affairs of Spain, at a time when the Government oithat country was a despotism chequered by constant revolutions. Spain now enjoyed the blessings of a liberal constitution and a parliamentary Government. So, too, in Portugal, our interposition had been followed by the institution of a parliamentary Government not dis similar to our own. Again, in the case of the slave trade we had secured freedom and happiness to millions of Africans. It was not enough, on an abstract principle, to condemn the practice of intervention ; it ought to be consi dered what the result was, and if that was satisfactory then they ought to give their consent to the intervention. The right hon. gentleman made a very eloquent discourse on the horrors of war ; everybody must agree with him in that. But it should be remembered that there were also calamities during peace, and those who passed by the calamities which Italy had suffered during the period of peace which preceded the late hostilities showed in so doing that they had but a limited acquaintance with the 'important bearings of the subject they were discussing. He hoped that the peace which was just concluded would not carry with it a repeti tion of those calamities. His noble friend had intended, as was the fact, that whether this country would be repre sented at a congress or not was yet a subject of considera tion, but he might say that no Government would recom mend that England should be a party to a conference merely to register arrangements made by allies without her previous consideration. He quite concurred with what had fallen from his hon. friend the member for Birmingham, that this country had no right to make itself a censor of the that country was content with aatssovereign might govern a this country had to do was to peror of the French had been, whether in peace or in war, our faithful ally. But while rememberni his a forei g nn n r government. i n country that wh i fully assenting to these views he thought thatthey affo r d e d 'the All o n lEn y tgmh foreign no reason why we should not put ourselves in a state of defence. A great country like this, which had so many in terests to defend, so much wealth to protect, had no right to repose on the mere security of the forbearance of other nations. And it was not one power only from which the complications of public evil might arise. There was Russia, with whom we had already . been in collision, and might be again. He knew that there could be nothing more injurious to our interests, more adverse to common sense, than to pro claim a weakness, and, at the same time, by every means in our power to gall and excite the j ea l ous y o f th e very person in regard to whom we expressed our feeling that hostility might arise. There was one other point to which he would refer, in order to express his concurrence with the view of his noble friend, that we ought not to endeavour to enter into any diplomatic engagement with France in order to in duce that country to enter upon the policy of free trade. No doubt our so doing would only be to lead a strong party there to raise an outcry that we were obtaining some imaginary advantage over their industrial interests. To a certain extent it might perhaps be urged that this country, having the benefit of free trade, was a gainer by the reten tion of the opposite system in France. But the fact no doubt was that nothing which France could do for the benefit of her trade—and the abrogation of protection would be such a benefit—could act but as a benefit to every other country in the world. He hoped that thetime would come when France, seeing the advantage which a system of free trade bestowed upon ourselves, would introduce that prin ciple in her own affairs. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT explained. He did not propose anything in the shape of a treaty of commerce, but he had said that what had lately taken place in France with regard to the reduction of duties offered a favourable opportunity to our Government to bring the subject of the extension of free trade measures under the consideration of the French Go vernment. With regard to treaties of commerce, he enter tained the same opinions as the noble lord. Mr. S. FITZGERALD said that what had fallen from the noble lord rendered a few remarks from him necessary. The noble lords (Russell and Palmerston) had seized this opportunity for entering upon the question of our foreign policy. But the other nighe, when Lord Elcho proposed to bring on his motion, and the views of the late Govern ment might have been explained and justified, the Govern ment said that the discussion of foreign affairs would be inconvenient to the public service. Now, however, when it was impossible for the late advisers of the Crown to go fully into the matter, these noble lords were themselves th e persods to go into the discussion of foreign affairs. The noble lord had not only approved the neutrality policy of the late Government, but enforced it in nearly the same language. The speeches of the noble lords must have con vinced everyone that they had made up their minds to go into Conirress—if they could get there. (Opposition cheers.) They might say that the matter was still in doubt,but their intention was evident. Either we should go into Congress to accept the terms of peace or to alter them. If to alter them, in whose interest ? (Hear.) The noble lord had expressed his desire to see Austria driven out of Italy. If he went to congress to support this view, there was an end of the neutrality of this country. Assuming it to be true, as the noble lord said, that good had resulted from our former interferences, that was not sufficient to justify us in , adopting any other than a strictly independent English policy. Our interference at Naples had done much injury ; the withdrawal of our ambassador had operated seriously in. the Cagliari affair. Other instances of impolitic interfer ence were found in the Pacifico affair, and when Lord Minto went through Italy stirring up all the populations to revolt. On another occasion the noble lord (Palmerston) had interfered in the affairs of Italy in such a way as to prevent an arrangement which would have been far more beneficial to that country than the one that had now been arrived at, after ten years of suffering on the part of the people. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that the Government would shortly allow the house an opportunity for discussing the propriety of going into congress. It would be the worst course the Government could take to accept the bases of a peace with which we had nothing to do. (Hear, hear.) Any attempt to alter these bases in favour of Italy would be at tended with the worst effects, by estranging from us the other powers ; and should the Government take such a course they would incur a very heavy responsibility which would be visited noon them when Parliament again met. Sir H. VERNEY said it would be impossible for this country to refrain from exercising some influence on one side or the other, in an important crisis like the present. Mr. WHITESIDE said it was melancholy to reflect that, after ten years of suffering on the part of the Italian People, and all the miseries of the late war, worse terms had been secured than were offered to the noble viscount (Palmerston) ten years ago, and by him rejected. (Hear, hear.) Colonel SYKES referred to the vast increase in every derpartment of expenditure in the last 25 years. Since 1835, the military expenditure had increased from seven .millions to eleven millions, or 55 per cent. The expen diture on the navy had increased from four millions to eleven millions and a half, or 198 per cent. The cost of the miscellaneous services had increased from £182,000 to £BOB,OOO, or 342 per cent. In the salaries of public depart ments, now £1,433,000, there had been an increase of 300 per cent. The per (tentage of increase, under the head of law and justice, was still greater, no less th an 414 p er cen t. The expenses fo r education, science, and art, had risen from £125,190 to £1,328,453. , This was the progress of civilise. tion. (A laugh.) Mr. E. LEATFIAM objected to the proposal of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer for making cheques presented by the drawers liable to the penny stamp. Mr. HORSFALL expressed his belief that the house would readily grant any sum that was necessary for our na tional defences, but he thought that a less oppressive means of raising the money might have been devised than by in creasing the income-tax, especially on persons of small in comes, The house then went into committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he would not proceed with the alteration of the duty on cheques until ample time was given the public for consideration. He would not introduce any bill on the subject this year, feel ing that it would be in the nature of a surprise. (Hear.) He would now simply move the first resolution, which was as follows : That, towards raising the supply granted to her Majesty, in addition to the rates and duties granted and now charge - able under the act passed in the 16th and 17th years of her Ma jesty's reign, chapter 34, for granting to her Majesty duties on profits arising from property, professions, trades, and offices, there shall be charged, collected, and paid, for and in respect of all property, profits, and gains, charged or charge able under the said act, either by assessment, contract of composition, or otherwise, the follo wing additional rates and duties, that is to say—upon any assessment made on the an nual value or amount of any property, profits, or gains (ex cept property, profits, and gains chargeable under Schedule (B) of the said Act), the additional rate or duty of four pence for every twenty shillings of the annual value or amount of all such property, profits, and gains, respectively ; and for and in respect of the occupation of lands, tenements, here ditaments, and heritages, chargeable under Schedule (B) of the said act, the additional rate or .duty of two pence in Eng land, and of one penny halfpenny in Scotland and Ireland respectively, for every twenty shillings of the annual value thereof, and such additional rates and duties respectively shall be collected and paid with and over and above the first moiety of the duties assessed or charged under the said act. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved as an amendment that the income. tax should be augmented by 3d. only, instead of 4d. The tax was an odious and iniquitous one, and could never be made just. At the time of the first income-tax every house of business in London petitioned against it, and a member of that house reommeuded that the Income Tax Act should be burnt by the public hangman. (A laugh.) He not 9nly objected to the proposed increase of 4d., but he objected to the whole of the 4d. being levied in the first half year. Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer propose to take, in October, the whole 4d. on the Long Annuities, which expired in March followino He was not at all satisfied that it was necessary to raise £4,000,000 of money, and therefore he moved that 3d. be substituted for 4d. Mr. POLLARD URQUHART thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer had taken the - best mode of meeting the deficiency. He might have recourse to a loan or to an in crease of indirect taxation, but in an economical point of view it was far preferable to tax income than capital. Mr. SPOONER wished to know whether the right hon. gentleman meant to deal with bankers' cheques in the pre sent year, and if so, what mode of proceeding he meant to adopt ? He should also like to know whether, in the oase of a tenant occupying a farm the lease of which was to ex pire on Lady-day, the whole income tax would be levied on that tenant, or whether the succeeding tenant was to pay half the tax ? Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he knew instances in which great injustice had been done to working men by the opera tion of the income tax. He hoped a provision would be introduced exempting the wages of labouring men from the tax. Mr. ROEB UCK would wish to know what difference there was between the man who drove a quill and the man who drove a dray ? Sir S. NORTHCOTE could not agree with the amend ment of the hon. baronet, because he did not think they would be able to make both ends of the year meet if the rate was to be reduced to 3d. • Mr. F. CR JSSLEY said although there might be some difficulty with regard to the details of such a tax, he did not believe it would be nearly so objectionable in principle as the income tax. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HUBBARD regretted that the only means which the right hon. gentleman had discovered of extricating himself from his financial difficulty was the aggravated use of that most mischievous impost the unreformed property and income tax. The course of our fiscal legislation had led us more and more to the adoption of direct taxation, and it was therefore necessary that that species of taxation should be reformed, so as to make it as equitable as any other tax that could be applied. Concurring in the spirit of the motion of the hon. baronet (Sir H. Willoughby) he should give it his cordial support. (Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that, although the discussion had not been very long, it had covered a considerable breadth of ground, and included a variety of questions besides that which had been raised by the hon. baronet. With regard to the question how the Long Annuities were to be taxed, his answer was, that they would be taxed in respect of a half-year's payment, like other public securities which were payable half-yearly, the tax being a tax for six months of the year. The question. of the Long Annuities had often been considered, and the difficulties which it involved were difficulties inherent in the nature of the income tax. and it would only perplex the case if he were to enter into the arguments of the hon. gen tlemaa who had just sat down. The hon. baronet proposed to reduce the tax from 4d. to 3d., and upon this distinct ground, that Chancellors of the,Exchequer had got an in veterate habit of underestimating the income of the country —ergo. he had understated it, and consequently £1,000,000 might safely be put to his estimate, and £1,000,000 be thus cut down from the ways and means. The hon. baronet had omitted from his view of the case two very essential particulars, which determined its whole merits. It was not true, so far as he knew, that a practice existed of un derestimating the income by the finance ministers of the country. The estimates were framed mainly and almost exclusively according to the deliberate judgment of the heads of the revenue department. He never but once presented an estimate that had not been framed in that manner, and that was the produce of the income tax on incomes under £l5O. It was the practice to make the estimates with perfect bona fides, but it was impossible so to frame them as to anticipate all the vicissitudes of the year. It was quite true that in one case there had been an excess of £700,000 over the esti mate, and in another case an excess of £1,500,000. In some cases however the revenue fell short of the estimate— a remarkable instance of this occurred in 1840, when the right hon. baronet the member for Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring) was Chancellor of tne Exchequer • the revenue fell short of his estimate t wo m illi ons and a 'half ; he had at times been much criticised for this, but in point of fact he was not to blame, as the produce of the revenue depended on the harvest, on peace, commercial prosperity, the crop of sugar or tea. The heads of departments stated the estimates as high as they consistently could, and that being, so the house would act most unwisely if it departed from the esta blished practice of keeping on the safe side. Since his ac cession to office he had requested the heads of the customs and excise to reconsider their estimates, and the result had been a small addition under each head. It should be recol lected also that the expenditure sometimes exceeded the es timate. Last year the actual inillease exceeded the estimate by a million and a half; but iii'c'eriiiiinenee of an excess of expenditure, the actual surplus was only £BOO,OOO, which had been applied to the purchase of deficiency bills. In reply to the hon. member for Warwiokshire, he could only pledge himself not to introduce any measure with regard to cheques this session, when it could not be fully discussed. With regard to the c ase o f a holding from Lady-day to Michaelmas this year, and the quitting, he w ou ld o f course have to pay the e x t ra 4d., as he held for the six months over which the tax extended. In 1854 the House of Com mons did exactly what it was now asked to do. The in come tax was then 7d., and they doubled it for the first ,half-year. That, however, was overlooked, because, from the necessities of the war, it was afterwards doubled for the second half-year also. The hon. member for Lambeth had made rather a formidable demand that incomes under £l5O should be exempt, or if that could not be granted, that at least workmen's wages should be relieved. If such was allowed, the result would be that those paid by the week would be exempted. The distinction, however, was unsound in principle, andlwould be dangerous in practice. He be lieved that in truth a workman with £lOO paid weekly was a richer man than a clerk or curate with an annual salary. The late Secretary of the Treasury had spoken of the mode of payment. It was not a question as to the mode of payment. The question was, whether the money should be raised with in the year 1859-60 for the service of that year and handed over to the finance of 1860-61. If the money was not handed over it should be raised by borrowing, and there was no use in proposing a reduction of the revenue. The only other course would 'be to reduce the expenditure ; if the hon. baronet could do that, he would be glad of his assis tance. Sir F. BARING said that the right hon. gentleman jus tified his course in levying the entire increase in the first half-year by the precedent of the Russian war ; he could only conclude from thence that the right hon. gentleman intended to follow Out the precedent fully and impose another 4d. for the second half of this year; if that were so, it was not fair treatment of the House of Commons—(hear, hear)—if it were not so, the right hon. gentleman was not acting on his principle of making the income meet the ex penditure. The country derived no advantage from the course he was now taking, and great injury was done the taxpayer. Mr. DISRAELT said that all estimates of income and expenditure were uncertain to seme extent. In his state ment last year hehad estimated the surplus at a million and a half. It was no financial surplus, but a real surplus. It was indeed afterwards reduced to £BOO,OOO, but that arose from the fact that the demands arising out of the Russian and Chinese wars were made, of which he could have no expectation, and which reduced the surplus. This would answer the objection of the hon. baronet the member for Evesham, and show him that it was absolutely necessary to leave a margin for income and expenditure, or the finances of the country would never be in a safe position. (Hear.) With regard to what the Chancellor of the Exchequer called the mode of payment, the whole question lay in a nutshell. It cameto this. Whether, when it was necessary to levy a tax, ought they not to make it as light as possible, and not go out of their way to increase the grievance. The objec tions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to his proposal were based on the fallacy that he considered his proposal to be a proposal for borrowing money. He denied that it was so ; the money would be paid out of the revenues of the country. The committee had decided that the money should be raised out of the revenue, and all that they had to do was to see it was so raised, and that in the manner least burdensome to the taxpayers. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had got first-rate security, and it was his duty to get the money in the manner most satisfactory to the country. The mode he advised was strictly analogous to that pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer with regard to the Exchequer Bonds, and the whole matter ought to be a mere matter of arrangement between the Chancellor and the Bank of England. The fact was, the Chancellor wanted in six months w h a t t h e country wanted twelve to pay, and the Bank of England must have changed very much if they would not facilitate the arrangement. They had given the Minister all the supplies he required, and it was his duty to see that the money was raised in the man ner least burdensome to the taxpayer. The mode was in dicated by pointing out a means which had been previously adopted by the right, hon. gentleman, and they told him that the Bank of Enoiand was ready to assist him with all the sums necessary for the public revenue, in the manner least inconvenient to she country. The amendment of Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, that instead of the word "four-pence" in the resolutioh,the word "three" should be inserted, was then put and negatived, and the resolution was agreed to. On the next resolution, " That where any dividends, inte rest, or other profits or gains becoming due or payable half yearly, are assessed or charged half-yearly with the rate or duty under the said act, there shall be charged upon the first assessment or charge which shall be hereafter made on such dividends, interest, profits, and gains, the additional rate or duty of eightpence for every twenty shillings of the half yearly amount thereof ; a n d w h ere any pro fit s or gains becoming due or payable quarterly are assessed or charged quarterly with the rate or duty under the said act, there shall be charged upon the first two quarterly assessments or charges respectively which shall be hereafter made on such last-mentioned profits and gains, the additional rate or duty of eightpence for every twenty shillings of the quarterly amount of such last-mentioned profits and gains ; and the said additional rates and duties charged in such half-yearly and quarterly assessments respectively shall be collected and paid with and over and above the rates and duties assessed or charged therein respectively under the said act. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved as an amendment after the word " thereof " to insert " for every one pound of divil dend on the Long Annuities expiring on the sth January, 1860, one farthing in the pound." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not detain the house on this question, which was one of the difficulties essential to a uniform income tax. Those who thought that the income tax could be recast and readjusted would vote with the hon. baronet ; for it was true, if you did that, you might fix the amount at which every annuity was taxed, and what part of the tax was derived from capital, and what from income. But that was opposed to the scheme or a uniform income tax, which declined to notice any capital returned to a person in the form of in come ; and any one who was in that position knew that he was subject to the income tax in that form. If they were to adopt the motion of the hon. baronet they would find themselves entangled with a hundred other cases as strong or stronger than this. The case of a life annuity was not different in this respect from the long annuities. In all these cases such an arrangement as was proposed would lead to inextricable confusion. The ques tion had been already decided by the House of Commons at different times ; in the time of his right hon. friend the present Home Secretary, and also in 1842, when Mr. Ricardo raised and discussed the question on a motion like that of the hon. baronet, and the house, having considered it, decided against Mr. Ricardo and in favour of the pre sent arrangement by a majority of 253 to 117. It would, therefore, not be consonant with justice to adopt the motion. Mr. HUBBARD said that the rate at which the tax was payable was not at 4d. but Bd. for the year, and half the payment of these annuities having gone, the Chancellor of the Exchequer was about to resuscitate an extinct payment for the purposes of the tax. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that was no doubt the case, but the Long Annuities only corres ponded with the case of the fundholder. Sir W. JOLLIFFE wished to know if the tax was meant to be prospective or retrospective; as regarded the Long Annuities, it must be retrospective. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did not understand what the noble baronet meant by a retrospective tax. It was in one sense retrospective, as it was laid on in respect of time from the Ist of April last, and they were now in July. He was sorry to say that was the case with all the income tax acts to which this country had been sub jected. The act of 1842, far which the right hon. baronet the member for Lincolnshire voted, was retrospective in that sense. The tax was not laid, as the hon. baronet said, on a year's income, but on half a year's income, but in many cases the only mode of ascertaining the half-year's income was by assessing that of the whole year, and then halving it. Mr. WALPOLE said it was clear that you could not, as regarded the new income tax, draw a distinction between the old and the new one, and if you subjected the Long Annuities to the tax, the argument went to show that as they expired in 1860, they ought only to be charged at the rate of 3d. in the pound. But the right hon. gentleman said that the mode of levying the tax proposed was con sistent with justice. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I only said that it would not be just to adopt the amendment. Mr. WALPOLE was glad to hear that, because they would not be precluded from that point in the considera tion of the income• tax next year; and if it was re-imposed it must be re-arranged, so as to make some difference be tween fluctuating and fixed incomes. After a few words from Mr. MALINS and Mr. BARROW, which were entirely lost in cries of " Oh," and " Divide," The amendment was put and negatived, The original motion having been put, Mr. DISRAELI rose to move an amendment. He had no objection to the imposition of the tax to meet the defi ciency of four millions and a half, but he objected to the mode in which the assessment was made. It was sought to have the four millions raised by the tax paid in six months, and he proposed that the payment should be dis tributed over 12 months. He moved that the two last lines of the resolution be struck out, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER regretted that the right hon. gentleman had moved that amendment. The ways and means of the year were those which were paid in the year, and taxes which were not paid within the year were not the ways and means of the year. The hon. member for Huntingdon had cavilled at him, and had alleged that he ought to be content with getting two millions now and two millions in 1861; because in 1854 he had :proposed to raise money on Exchequer Bonds, in anticipation of the next half-year's income-tax and the malt tax, which could not be paid within the year. His answer was two-fold-- what did they do in 1854 ? They asked the house for 12 millions of new taxes, and would it have been rational or fair to say to the house that they should lay on the whole 12 millions of taxes in one year ? But to request the pay ment of four millions of new taxes in one year was a 'very different thing, as it was only one-third of the amount. If the hon. gentleman asked why he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was content to take money by anticipation in )854, his answer was because he could not help it, and be cause he could not have got in 12 millions of taxes in one year. 'The second reason was that they had some experience since 1854, and he had seen enough to cause him to know that it was an undesirable experiment to repeat. The Go vernment of 1854 said—We will have five or six millions of taxes imposed which cannot be received within the year, but if the war should cease and the money comes in it may be applied to the payment of the Exchequer Bonds. The war did cease, and the money did come in, but Parliament did not choose to recognise its applicability wholly to the payment of Exchequer Bonds, but applied only two mil lions to that payment, and the rest to the ways and means of the year. After that experiment, andwhen the probabi lity was that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer borrowed money now the loan would be continued and the money intended for it when it came declared to , be part of the ways and means of the year, he would tell the hon. gentle man that he would not provide fourmillions for the year by getting in only two millions at once. It might be said that they gave the best security, and there was no better security than consols, but the questionwas whether they would pro vide for the year within the year. The proposal of the right hon. gentleman would no doubt be popular, since it was to relieve the present at the expense of the future. But he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) entreated the house to listen to the words he was about to speak, for they were full of meaning. The proposals the Government had made were those which they deemed the smallest required by the state of the public interest and the demands on the national ex chequer. He had pointed out some of the demands that were coining upon them, includingX6oo,ooo a-year of guarantees for packets and telegraphs, not sanctioned by Parliament ; and there was more in reserve. Other questions had been raised which were not at the present moment matured enough to enable him to declare the views of the_ Govern ment upon them, but upon which the Government would be compelled, perhaps before many days, to declare- their views. It was their absolute duty to take these exigencies into account, which had shortly been explained. He there fore hoped the house would - negative the proposal of the right hon. gentleman. As responsible minister of the Crown, he (the Chancell or o f the Exchequer) would give the'house this assurance, and would tell them that they had not measured, and at this moment they could not mea sure the demands which were coming upon them in connec tion with the wants of the empire. (Hear.) He therefore hoped the house would be disposed to give the Government the provision which they asked for the wants of the year. If the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli), how ever , thought fit to persist with his proposition, he would, since it was not one for the imposition of taxation, but for the re lease of taxation, be able to bring it forward upon another occasion, and not in the Committee of Way s an d M eans. He trusted the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) would therefore postpone it to some period during the sp p ea ro k gr wi es t s h o a f the bill, when he might be able, perhaps, to fuller knowledge of the position in which he stood. the words which he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had just spoken were uttered, he could assure the house, under a deep sense of the responsibility of his position. Mr. T. BARING said that if the Chancellor of the Ex chequer meant to declare that such was the state of the country, and such were the views of the Government, that it was important to have this money within six months, he for one should not oppose the proposition of the Govern ment ; but the right hon. gentleman must be aware that arrangements could be made to render the second portion of the additional income tax available for every purpose of this year's expenditure. With regard to the £600,000 of applications for contracts, it was in the power of Govern ment to refuse them if they thought proper. The observa tions of the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed to indi cate a foregone conclusion to put on another 4d. in the pound next February or March. Mr. HENLEY did not see hew it would be possible to levy this tax on the Consols, one-half year of which was already past and gone, the next half -year not being payable till January ne x t. Th e e ff ec t wou ld b e th a t the holders of Consols would only pay half the tax. However, if the money must be got in within the year, the house could not do otherwise than agree to the proposal. However, in con venient the proceeding might be, still, if the Government really wanted the money within the financial year, he would not refuse it them, although money to be received in the next financial year could be made applicable by Exchequer Bills. The right hon. gentleman's words certainly held out a very alaimiwg, prospect of something looming in the dis tance. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, with re ference to a remarli of the hon. gentleman the member for Huntingdon, denied that he had any " foregone conclusion" as to the taxes that must be imposed next year. As an humble individual, it was his duty to labour to keep down the expenditure as much as he could. That was a very un hopeful task just now, and he should not be able to succeed in it without help from both sides of the house. He would always urge the house as far as possible to meet the burdens of the day in the day. Mr. DISRAELI said the question had really assumed a very difficult and serious aspect. He was never more sur prised in his life than at hearing the observations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer just now. He would pass by the right hon. gentleman's allusion to the pending contracts or guarantees of £600,000 a year. It was well known that pending contracts were in the power of the Government, and no Government would enter in; o a guarantee where there was any probability of a shilling being called for. But the right hon. gentleman had made other appeals to the house of a very , serious character. However disagreeable the communications made by the Chancellor of the Exche quer must usually be, it was one compensation that the truth and the whole truth should be placed before the house, and when the budget had been opened the house might reasonably think they knew the depth and extent of the liabilities of the country. But he collected from what the Chancellor of the Exchequer had just said that the house were in the unenviable position of not having yet been informed by th e Minister of the full extent of their. liabilities. It was a mere mockery and delusion to con sult the house if .the Minister was to treat them in that manner. He trusted, therefore, that at least before they had to legislate on this proposition, the Chancellor of the Exchequer would condescend to enter into a complete and sincere explanation. (Cheers.) He admitted the force of the right hoii. gentleman's plea, and he could not incur the responsibility of pressing on the house to take a step in the dark, when, after the annual exposition of the finances of the country th e y w ere now told that they had butim perfect information. If, however, he now waived the pro position he had made, h e expected that at least before th e end of the session, although they might be told that foreign politics were matters above the ken and comprehension of the Hopse of Commons, although diplomacy might not deign to reveal to them its mysteries, still, in matters of finance the house should have a full revelation of those engage merits and responsibilities which had been so mysteriously intimated e EXCHEQUER wou ld b eg (Cheer e f s t . h ) ght boa . gentleman to rec o ll ec t th a t h e h ad stated, as The t CHANCELLOR them. the right clearly as he could, and such was the state into which our . finances had been brought, and very much by that habit of prospective engagements, without the authority of Parlia ment, which had been a growing evil for several years, and which he was sorry to say he found, on acceding to office, in a state such as he could hardly have believed—that even with respect to English finances, it was not in his power, three weeks after coming into office, to convey to the House of Commons a complete view of their present and prospec tive condition. (Hear, hear.) But there were other ques tions than those of English finance, and those he had espe cially in view. The right hon. gentleman said it was his absolute duty to communicate fo the House of Commons every,thing bearing on the condition of our finances ; but the right hon. gentleman himself had been sixteen months in office, and ought to have obtained a tolerably clear view of the financial exigencies of the empire. (Hear, hear.) He remembered that the noble lord at the head of the In dian Government in the late Adminfistration announced that the requirements of the Indian exchequer were seven mil lions, and then, after that clear and distinot statement it was discovered that four or five millions more were required. (Hear.) If he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had now used words which could convey any idea that there was any political significance in what he had said of covert demands, that was as far as possible from his intention ; he had not the slightest intention of the kind, and was referring only to financial exigencies. Of course it was his duty to bring these fully before the house, but his knowledge of them was limited. With a world-wide empire new demands might come upon us, and new features of our financial situation might develop themselves from time to time. Mr. DEEDES said he felt that however tempting the proposition of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) might be, he could not now throw any impediment in the way of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the responsi bility must be cast on the executive. The resolutions respecting the income tax were then put and agreed to. _ On - the third resolution, " That, toward raising the supply granted to her Majesty, the time limited for payment of the duty of excise on malt by every maltster, or maker of malt, who shall have given security by bond in the manner directed by the act passed in that behalf in respect of all malt begun to be made on or after the Ist day of October, 1859, shall be twelve weeks in lieu of eighteen weeks after the making of such account or return of duty as in the said act is mentioned," Mr. PULLER said the effect of this resolution would be to drive out of the trade all the small maltsters, and it would. make void the bonds which every maltster had entered into. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was admitted on all hands that if the system of malt credits was ever to be modified at all it could not be modified more gently than in the mode proposed, which was only to curtail the credits six weeks, and the first year they a ll owe d a dis count. With regard to the question of the bonds he would examine into that matter, and see whether there was likely to be any serious difficulty on the part of the traders with regard to them. Sir J. SHELLEY said he thought the right hon. gentle man had dealt very lightly with the malting interest in the proposal under consideration. After a few words from Mr. DOBSON the resolution was agreed to, and the Chairman left the chair, and the house resumed. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE S Lord PALMERSTON said it might be for the conveni ence of the house that he should state, it Having been un derstood that there was to be a morning sitting to-mor row, for the purpose of taking two bills into consideration —namely, a bill of his right hon. friend the Home Secretary, concerning the London. Corporation, and a bill providing for a new Poor-law arrangement—that the Cor poration Bill had been postponed till Wednesday, and that the Poor-law Bill was to be taken to-morrow evening. It was not necessary, therefore, that the proposed sitting should take place to-morrow. The estimates would be taken to-morrow evening. (Hear, hear.) SUPPLY. The report of the Committee of Supply was brought up, mad the several resolutions were agreed to, the Chancellor of the Exchequer taking occasion when the vote for the maintenance of prisons was put to state, in reply to Mr. Newdeg•ate that the Government had a t present no plan for. the establishment of a penal colony under their conside ration. The Cambridge University Commission (Continuance) Bill was read a third time and passed. The Criminal Justice Middlesex (Asssistant-Judge) Bill was read a third time and passed. The Ecclesiastical Commission Bill was read a second time. The Bankruptcy and Insolvency (Ireland) Bill passed through Committee. The Pawnbrokers' Bill, the Universities (Scotland) Bill, and the Consolidated Fund (L 7,000,000) Bill were each read a second time. The Roman Catholic Re lief Act Amendment Bill was withdrawn. The Diplomatic Pensions Bill went through committee. The house then went into committee upon the Municipal Corporations Bill, when Mr. STEUART moved that the Chairman report pro gress and, after some conversation, the motion was agreed to. STATE OF THE THAMES. Sir S. M. PETO moved for a select committee to inquire into the causes of the present state of the river Thames, and to suggest such remedies as might be deemed expedient for its improvement. • Mr. BLACKBURN thought the subject too important to be discussed at that late hour, and he therefore moved the adjournment of the house. Lord PALMERSTON said that this matter had been fully considered by a committee last year, and he therefore hoped that his hon. friend would not persevere with his motion. After a short discussion the question was put, and, the motion for adjournment having been carried without division, The house adjourned at two o'clock. COUNTRY MARKBTS: MANCHESTER--juLy 21. The market was somewhat firmer, and wheat was taken to a fair extent at the prices of this day se'nnight. Other articles were about stationary. BIRMINGHAM-JULY 21. A short supply of wheat which was cleared of at an ad vance of is per qr. Barley and oats inquired after. PeaB were the turn cheaper. Beans unaltered. LOUTH—JULY 20. A small attendance to-day at the corn-exchange, and A 4 very limited business transacted. The few sales we heard of were of wheat, at a reduction of 2s to 33 per quarter —. for red and mixed 40s to 43s per qr. BOSTON—JuLY 20. This morning's market was thinly attended, and holders 4 of wheat and flour b e i ng unwilling to make concessions the business done was so trifling that it is impossible to quote prices with any degree of correctness. The Spring corn on offer sold at drooping prices. Wheat ..... . .3Bs to 42s Oats.... . ..... 21s to 20 White do .42s to 44s Beans ... 46s to 48 0 Barley .28s to 32s Peas ....Os to 470 • EDINBURGH GRAIN --JULY 20. ' • . Supplies less, and sales were heavy to-day. Wheat on the top 2s 6d down. average Os 7d down- Barley on the top Os 6d up average Os 9d up. Oats on tho top 2s Od down ... average Os lld down. Beans on the top Os 6d up ... --average Os ld down• Averages per Imperial quarter. Wheat.... Barley 1 13 8 0-12ths Oats . 1 5 9 0-12ths Beans Total Supply and Sales. Wheat ... 922 qrs Sold 701 qrs 8ar1ey........ 139 qrs Sold 36 qrs Oats 932 qrs Sold 664 qrs Beans 93 qrs Sold 74 qrs DERBY SMITHFIELD —JULY 19. The supply of fat beasts to-day was large. but generallf the quality was deficient, and the demand was flat ; for the best quality a fair request, and for inferior a heavy sale' Sheep and lambs were in very good supply, and prices to higher than last week. Pigs rather numerous, but the weather was against the sale. Fat calves plentiful. Beef sta to 7d Veal 6d to - ---d" Mutton .. Gid to 7d Pork Lamb 7id to 8d Rough fat, 5s Od per stone Hides, 31d to sid ; calf skins, 6d to 614. A gentleman of this town (says the Bridgewater Mercury) has received a letter from M. Simonyi, who re cently quitted England for Italy with Louis Kossuth; as aide-de-camp to the ex. Governor of Hungary. M. Simonyi, in - common with his compatriots, strongly denounces the manner in which Kossuth and the Hungarians have been befooled to serve the purposes. of the Fren c h E m p eror . • [ADVERTISEMENT47-A few more of the. Extraordinary ' Cures without Medicine of indigestion (dyspepsia), flan" - lency, constipation, nervous; bilious, and liver complaints , cough, asthma, consumption, and debility effected by D a Barry's delicious health-restoring Revalenta Arabica Food? are here given :=Cure 52,422.—Bridgehouse, FrimleY, April, 1854-33' years' diseased lungs, spitting of blood, liver derangement, deafness, singing in the ears, constipa tion, debility, shortness of breath and cough, have been re moved by your Revalenta Arabica. 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Al so a t ugly, Bewley and Draper ; at Edinburgh, Raimes and Co.; at Liverpool, Nixon and Th e w ; at Manchester , Sharp an ' Scott; at York, Raimes, Blanchard, and Co. ; at South ampton, Randall and Son. -- •• • • BIRTHS. BouvERIE.--On. the 19th inst., at 15, Eaton-place, Mrs. Philip Pleydell-Bouverie, of a daughter. HOSTE.—on the 16th inst., at Sandgate, the wife of Major Hoste, C. 8., Royal Artillery, of a son. MARRIAGES. KING—PALMER.—On the 19th inst., at Lighthorne, War wickshire, Bolton King, Esq., to Louisa, eldest (laugh' ter of the Rev. Charles and the Lady Charlotte Pahner. SIMMONS—DYMOCK.—On the 12th inst., at Ryde, the Re/. Frank C. Simmons, to Laura, the eldest daughter of the late Rev. T. F. Dymock, rector of Hatch Beaucb.arolh Somerset. DEATHS. BIDDLE.—On the 16th inst., Edward Biddle, Esq., late of the War-office, and St. Helier's, Jersey, aged 64. BLAGDON.—On the 18th inst., at Cheltenham, John Lo° Blagdon, Esq., of BoddingfOn Manor, Somersetshaeo -aged 36. CONINGHAM.—Ori the 17th inst, at Jersey, Edith Loui s° Coningham, youngest child of Major-General Coning" ham, aged six years. ,_ LINDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUN G ' of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Suns Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of Middlesex, Friday, July 2 , 1859. sale Pri, 7-1 Ilia t'. ` J T blew shire , I •'c kern et tet te 11 , 1)111, 441) B'