The Sun. — London, England, 1858-06-29 00:00:00

rin SIT LONDON, TUESDAY assent given by conamisiton to certain bile. [For which, the hon, member extreesel so much ditappeintment at see L rds' report.] ; its operatio n , cons id era bl e reductions had been made. e COLLIERY PRO . IZIETORS -IN THE -FOREST , The boo. memb er t a lk e d o f i ncreased expenditure and OF DEAN. reduced taxation, but it was qu it e c l ear t h at no steps f or Col. KINGSCOTE asked the Secretary to the Trea- the reduction o f th e d e b t cou ld b e successful unless you sury whether the decision given by Mr. Howard, upon could get public o pi n i on i mpresse d w i th the policy of the memorial presented to him by the colliery proprietor s reduction, If you l e d p u bli c op i n i on i n t h at di rect i on ...the public would consent to- reduced expenditure and • in Oa-Forest of. Dean, in July, 1857, was founded on th e r increased tax e s ; t u t un d er any ot h er circumstances a opinion of the law officers of the Crown ; a n d, if net, : whether there would be any objection to take tt u i r : would be impnssible t o pr est r y e regu l a ti ons for taie spt opinion ? ' cal (deje c t. I'. appeared to him that the great o bj ee ta m . Mr. HAMILTON answered in the neaative • to the course of th e hon. member was that it was on e THE SLAVE SQCTADRON, which could not be put in practice. (Hear) Neither Mr. M. GIBSON inquired whether it was the inters- i could he agree that the act of Geo. IV. had proved a tion of Mr. Hutt to bring on this eveni ng hi s ques ti on dead letter. D ur i ng 18 o f t h e years w h ich h a d elapsed since, reductio ns o f th e d e bt b a d b een ma d e, and in the with reference to the slave squad ron ? Mr. HUTT said it was his i n t en ti on t o h ave b roug h t other 11 the expe n dit ure excee d e d th e i ncome, an d no • appropriation c add be made, I n 1829 th e sur pl us in the question before the co mm itt ee t hi s even i ng, but understanding that th ere was some m i un d erstandin vested was 1,200 0001. ; i n 1830, 2 , 000,0001 .; i n 1831 , amongst gentle men w h o t oo k an i nterest i n the subject, 1,230,0001.; it, 1833, 1,700,000/.; i n 1834, 1,700,0001. ; ghe should defer hi s mo ti on f or t h e present, and would in 1835, 500,0001. ; i n 1836 , 500 , 000 /. ; an d i n 18 37, ' . bring it u n d er cons id era ti on on go i ng into supply on the 1,500,000/ The n came years o f b a d h arvei t an d would slave trade vote, they at such a time p ro p ose t o i ncrease th e taxes o f the THE FUNDED DEBT BILL, working classes i n or ' er t o re d uce t h e d e bt ? (Hoar.) On the order f or go i ng i n t o comm i ttee on t hi s b ill, During four year s i nve -t men t was i mposs ibl e, b ut the 1 moment prosperity returned—in 1844—there was a re - Mr. WILSON m / y e a th e f o li ose & g reso l ution as an amendment : --"That this house is of opinion that the i sumption of ineettrnents, extraordinary expenditure i ncurre d d ur i ng a war b eyon d ' Mr. WILSON That Ira the y ear o f th e i ncome tax. what is obtained from t axa ti on , s h ou ld b e ra i se d in the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid he did not ee, here that affected th e areu meet. I n 1345 , form of terminable loans, the redemption of whi c h s h ou ld ; be provided for withi n a s p ec ifi e d per i o d a f ter the return the investm e nt was neatly 1 400 0001 in 1846, .of peace ; or, if with a view to grea ' er economy, i t i s 1,200.000/. ; in 1847, 628,000/ . ; i n 1849, notbine ; raised by loans in the s h a p e of permanent annuitiee, that but in 1850, th ere was i nvestea 2,321,000/. li, a provision should be ma d e f or th e liquidation of. the 1851 the reductio n was 3 , 00 0,000/. ; in 1352 it 'same by moderate annual instalments after the w a r ex was upwards of 1,800 , 0001 , and in 1853 it was penditure shall hav e c ease d, f rom surp l us revenue to 1,000,000/. H o w, th en , c iul d it be seed that the act of Geo. IV, h a d fail td ? In the ma j or ity o f years re be provided for that p ur p ose ." Th e h onoura b le gist— ductions had b e e n ma d e, an d when they had not the Wleman pointed out th a t th e comm i ttee o f 1 3 2 3 recommended the course for w hi c h hi s reso l u ti on country was suff er i ng un d er var i ous hardships, there provided, and an act f o d owe d ren d er i ng i t i mpe - being three bad harvests and a merc an til e co ll apse i n rative to raise by wa y s an d means a sum to pay consequence of wh a t occurre d i n America. He hoped, off a certain amount of the d e bt ever y year. N ow t h e therefore, th a t t h e h ouse would adhere to the act of • Government came down, a n d did no t as k th em to pos t- 1829, which h e th oug h t h e h a d s h own had completely fulfilled I' B intender!, and had con s id era bly re d uce d t h e pone the motion, but to repeal alt oge th er th e ac t o f th e Legislature. Taking th e amou n t o f f un d e d an d un f un d e d debt when ever th ere was a surplus revenue. Suppose *debt at the commencem e nt and c l ose o f th e war, b e f oun d that during th e fi ve y ears o f the b ad harvests and coin that the debt at the close of the war was 25 m illi ons mercial collapse they bad secured a surp l us b y art ifi c i a l larger than at the beginning. I n l oo ki ng t o thi s matter, means, how much wou ld th ey not h ave added to the suf brings of the p eo pl e . Th a t cons id eration had very much it wag not his intention to disturb the financial arrange- brings the governmen t i n their financial policy, merits . of the present year, for h e cons id ere d t h e b u d get which be was glad t o say t h e h ouse h ad adopted. They a settled question. All he wan t e d t o do it) the motion he had made was to caution th e h ouse aga i nst repudiat- saw the crisis th roug h w hi c h t h e commerce of the coun ing the obligation s w hi c h th ey h a d so recently con- try had pas s ed, an d th ey th oug h t that that was n e time tracted. (Hear, hear.) Th e rig ht h on. gent l eman the to talk of reduci ng th e na ti ona l d e b t, or of laying on new taxes to pay eng agemen t s o f a t erm i nable character, He Chancellor of the Excheque r h a d t a k en a very oppos i te view of the operation o f th e s i n ki ng f un d f rom that which thought that such a p r i nc i p l e wou ld have been mist un wi e, and he did no t t hi n k t h at any minister would have Was taken by the lat e Ch ance ll or o f t h e Exeheeper (Sr, carried it. Th e h on , mem b er blamed hint for reducing G. C. Lewis), and whi c h was b ase d upon the recona the income tax, up en w hi c h h e passed a warm eulogium. mendati ins of the Co mm itt ee o f 1828 , an d i n doing so Lad fallen into many o f th e f a ll ac i es w h ic h had been too But he could n o t l a y c l a i m to having reduced taxation. lid found the in come t ax re d uce d by act cf Parliament, frequently committed by persons w h o h a d d ea lt w i t h t hi s subject. The hon. gen tl eman quote d M r. G oulburn, Mr. and had he prop ose d th a t i t s h ou ld b e continued at the same rate as it sto o d l as t year, t h at proposition would Hueleisson, and other Ch ance ll ors o f th e E xchequer, in have amount e d t o an i ncrease o f taxation. 'When, tbtre support of the view that we oug ht a l ways to h ave bad a f sufficient sinkbagfund. Th e h on. gen tl eman t h en entered fore, the hon. gentle man sa id t h ere had been a reckless reduction of taxation red a total disregard of the princi into a history of the national debt. He observed that it avas not, as gener a lly su p pose d , an anc i ent institution plea upon which p u bli c cre di t cou l d alone be maintained , he must rememb er th a t th ere h a d b een not a reduction, or the means by whi c h we h a d a tt a i ne d our greatness ; it was of comparativ e ly mo d ern or i g i n. T he first small as the hon. gentleman Fasted, but a con s id era bl e i ncrease debt was contracted in 1690, an d i n 1792 i t amounted to of Taxation duri ng th e year i n two important instances ; and with rega r d t o t h e i ncome tax, all that the govern -260 millions, the anim a l c h arge b e i ng 9 millions. In 23 years later it was in crea - e d b y 500 m illi ons, and the ment did was to sa y th a t, as f ar as they were concerned annual charge by 21 m illi ons . I t was sa id that the they would adher e t o th e d ec i s i in w hi ch Parliament had sinking fund was f a ll ac i ous , b u t i n s i xteen years the pronounced. When, th ere f ore, t h e hon. gentleman asked him (the Ch ance ll or o f t h e E xchequer) whether debt Cad been reduced by 54 m illi ons ; w h ereas i n the succeeding thirty years, from 1828 to 1858, it h a d i n- he was prep are d t o repu di ate the engagements made by creased from 800 milli ons t o 808 m illi ons, so that under Parliament i n re f erence to the sinking fund the more specious but l ess e ff ec t ua l system the debt, ir• and the repaym en t o f t h e E xc h equer bonds, he stead of being redu ce d, was i ncrease d b y eight millions might in reply ask the h oc . gen tl eman w h et h er he was prepared to depart fro m th e equa ll y so l emn engagement in time of peace. 'lnstead cf relyin g o n a fi c titi ous sure plus, which the Chancell or o f th e E xc h equer had never entered into by Pa r li amen t i n 1853 i n re f erence to the income-tax? (Hear.) He would not ent er i n t o t h e quea been able to repay, th e y oug ht to h ave had a surplus provided by Act of P ar li ament, b y which in sixteen tion of wheth e r it was an engagement or a compact, or years they bad b een a bl e t o pay 54 millions ; whereas merely an understandi ng i n th e way o f a b arren arrange now they had gone on thi r ty years, an d f oun d themselves meat to reduce the incom e t ax if c i rcumstances should eight millions furth er i n d e b t. T hat was not a very allow it, but being an arrangement b ased upon an act of creditable or satisfact or y resu l t. It m i g ht b e sa id t h ere Parliament it was i n a ll respects as binding as the en had been additi ons d ur i ng t h at per i o d , and so there bad, gagement in res p ec t t o th e art i f i cial sinking fund. The case was a simp' e o ne; th e i ssue was whether they should for the abolition of sl aver y, th e f am i ne i s Ireland, and stand by th e s i n ki ng f un d of 1829 or the sinking fu ed lence and meet our na ti ona l d u ti es, w i t h out providing a the Russian war; b u t were we t o exerc i se our benevo adopted t wo y ears ago. Th ey could not have both. They could not have th e s i n ki ng f und which had worked so means of payment 1 Af ter a ll there hail only been two years of war during that period. What chance had they well and at the same time the sinking fund they adopted of anything better ? Under the act of 1823 upwards of when the loan for the Russian war was raised. There 27 millions bail been paid off in five years. But we had was no ground upon which they could abandon the sink this year put off the payments which fell due, and next ing fund of 1829, which was based upon .sound principles year we should have two millions more cf bonds, wish ef finance, but one, and that was that it had failed in its• one million less to pay ii. We were told that we must object. He maintained, on the contrary, that it bad sue postpone all this to 1860, but if we did so we should ceeded in its obj • c t. W hen the country was prosperous have seven millio ns f a lli ng d ue t h at year, when the in- there had always been a considerable surplus applied to the redacti on come tax would b e en t ire l y removed, an the reduo ion of th e nat i onal debt ; when it was less and of the sugar duties would still further diminish the prosperous a emaller surplus was applicable, and was de revenue. to that purp ose , an d when the country was i n die revenue. No o ne cou ld b e li eve t h at those engagements , should then be met, and was it wise that finance Mini- tress, and its resources were impaired, then this act, a sters should bold out fallacious hopes ? He believed faithful mirror of the national fortunes, remained in ope that the income-tax was more unpopular in this house ration, and there being no surplus, the public difficulty than elsewhere, and that out of doors the majerity ef the was not added to by any obligation to pay off the debt. intelligent portion of the community were of opinion (Hear.) He trusted the house would support the act of that the income-tax was of all taxes the most inconve- 1829. But even if the hon. gentleman's plan did not nient, (Hear, and "No, no.") It was strange that those clash with the act of 1829, he was of opinion that it would who were supposed to be most favoured should cry "No, not be expedient now to lay down rules and regulations no," and those on his side of the house, that were for a sinking fund, which, according to the hon. g•ntle supposed to represent the sufferers under schedule D, man's own view, could not come into operation for four should cry " Yee, yes." (Hear.) He believed nothing years from the present time, If, therefore, there were no would be more easy than fur the Ceancellor of the Ex- sinking fund act in existence, he should object to the lion cherietr to have kept on the second, and many would member's preposition, hut b -Having at he did that the act rather he had done so than postponed the bonds. (Hear, of 1829 was a wile measure, and that it operated with hear.) The other day firm hopes were held out of re- advantage to the country, he felt it the more incumaent pealing the p a p er d ut i es — as b ad a tax in principle as upon him to oppose it. could be—but it was their duty to pay their debts be- Mr. WILLIAMS said the question was not whether the sinki ng fund of 1829 seoula be retains a hut whether fore they t a lk e d o f repea li ng even such ae tax. They were burning the candle at both onds—reducing taxi- the act borrowing 29,000,000/, for the purposes of the tion and increasing the expenditure. In respect to the hessian war should be kept iota) ate, There was a con succession duties, wi.ilb question was ntaxtd up with ta • cation in that act that this debt should be paid off at the legacy duty, they had yielded much less than they were rate of a mita en and a belle year, and it would be a die estimated to produce. It was said that it w as unwise t o grace to the country to throw the liquida , ion of th a t tie the bands if parliament, but we had already done so. obligation upon p aterity. The Chancellor of the Exche- We 113,1 incurred liabilities for which parliament must quer in his speech at Slough—(oh, ob)—had taken credit provide, and it was not for us to avoid a 1 action on our for reducing taxation, but the fact was that the present oan pert by postponement. We were told it was use- Gov, minuet had p •stponed the payment of two millions less to order an annual payment, unless ways and means of Exchequer bale for four years, and now it seemed that were provided. But it was provided. It was as easy fresh burdens were to he thrown upon the people. for a Chancellor of the Exchequer to provide ways and Mr. GLADS PONE denied that by voting fur this means fee a sinking fund, or f a tit , reaemptien of the bill the hou e would he guilty e f an act of repudiatien • debt, as f or th e payment of annuities, &c , atc. ; but it Ulcer ) When tee '2O 000,0001. was borrow: d, S.r G. tbey were to rely upon a chance surplus at the end of C. Lewis, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, dist the year, what surplus was there this year ? He feared tinctly said that the public creditor was not to be Pails rather a deficit. The Chancellor of the Eecaecpter, to fled by the yearly payment of a nil lion and a half, provide a surplus, bad put on a duty on cheques, but Although he felt that the house was under obligation how could they tell what that would produce ?To make to the honourable member for bringing forward s out a surpl us even th en, t h e Chancellor of the Exchequer resolution, be nevertheless could not vote for it, thi as had taken account of reductions in the Admiralty and he felt sceptical as to the soundness of the principles the roiecellanecue estimates, but the First Lord of the he had put forward. Tee hon. member said that the Admiralty had already been obliged to trench o n budget of the Mini s t er ex hibi ted a deficit, not a surplus; his share of the saving, and the otter was f and to but if that were so, why had not his hon. friend be to a great extent fellacieue. A great del was male a prop isal which should ecptalite income and said about the national defences, but no danger we expendita e ? (dear, hear.) Oa the contrary, his hon. could incur would be so great as that which arose friend accepted the budget of the Chancellor of the Ex from so greet a burden, and if we were once relieved chequer, and in no manner attempted to disturb it, from that burden, beef the amount wound hl sufficient ( [1 " 7 .) Hi.s hon. friend bad made no pr , posal for the meat ,:f money, h ut simply called upon the hoofs for the defence of the csuntry. If th ey wool' c,a i lease to thr,,a , pre-ent o bl• gat i ons upon a future Pathan:lent. pare our condition in teas r es p ec t w ith ot h er countries, we would find that in Prance, whose deet was the next (He:r, hear.) As a resolution prospective in its cha racter, he c ou ld not support it. Alf.hou 41 he agreed in greateet to ours, it only amounted to 321 mill ono, b e i ng less than half of ours. But that was because other much that bad fallen from his hon, fri nd, it appeared b namely, the state of the expenditure nations, including the French, p aid ci r in time ' f peace hi - o (Mr. Gl,fstene) that he had lost sight of the true p-iint of discuetion, what they had incurred in time of war. This couture of the c , untry, and the dispusi ion of the Government heti for mane years been in au exceede-g'y ad in the riir ction of profu iin or economy. If profusi,n vantageoua position. W e had the commerce of the preveiled, it was idl ,to speak of sinking funds, (float.) werlialmeet at our wet:inland in censequence of our im- Hie boo. friend bad been enabled to show that the sink provernents in the arts, and we were in a knee of un• iri fond had succeeded bec:aute the country hal been exampled prosperity. But what security Lai we that guided by ecenetnical piiimiplee. (Hear.) He hoped we should m a i n t a i n our re l et i ve a lvarstage over other he had nihundersfood the Ch ance ll or o f the Exchequernations. Th e F renc h exports had nearly trebled since 1847, and curs in the same period had doubled. During as to the obligations of a Government to reduce the pub a period of national prosperity and peace, tile duration lie debt. It was a clear duty of Parliament in time of of which we could not estimate, we ought to reduce peace to make such arrangements front year to year for our debt. He did not wish to embarrass the Govern- securing the application of money for the reduction of ment in their arrangements for the year. He was wil- the debt. The real weight and pressure of the national ling to admit that the bonds were part of the debts of debt were felt in the permanent depression of the masses the war as much as the sinking fund, and if the right — (hear, hear)—and tee trusted the h , use would adhere hon. gentleman admitted the principle of the sinking to the principle of the Act of 1829. (Bear, bear.) fund, he had no objection to its being postponed till after Sir G. C. LEWIS was not prepared to vote for the the bonds were paid. Let him adept one of the eau- resolution oft the ground that a contract bad been en natives in his own budget, and agree to postpone the tered into with the public creditor, for he certainly bad einking fund inttead of repealing it, and he (Mr. Wilson) not understood that the subscribers to the loan for the would be satisfied, He only desired that they should Russian war were to be placed in a better position affirm the principle of paying in time of peace the debts than other pubic creditors, but he was willing to incurred in war. Their policy should be, by every argue the question on the issue which had been honourable means, to avoid going to war ; when at w ar fairly raised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to conduct it with due economy. A committee might , namely, whettrer reliance should be placed upon a bf the e agr nadional ee on next bt session to consid er th e w h o l e su bj ect na t ura l or an artificial sinkin g f un d ? H e did riot think the r i g ht h on. gentleman bad given a correct de- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ra id finition of the artificial sinking fund, an adherence to that the motion of the hen, member involved soveral as- which he dd net think would be wise. In dealing with sertions wbich appeared to him to be of a very question- minor bodies . o the State, Parliament, through the in able charact er . I n th e fi rs t place, the assertion that the strumenta , t e' of the Exchequer Loan Bill Commissioners expenses of a war should be raistd by way of terittiea- stieula t ', aat loans should be paid in certain payments the annuity asserted what bad been done respecting the in cert 'ears ; but he still deprecated the practice of late war. They hal terminable loans both in the shape thee' !neje' skeane fonds, t o/ cry interesting ditcuseion (hear, hear.) of anrutties and of Exchequer bond-, and therefore so ARDWELE, although the resolution had led far as that part of the resolution bore on the future cora tea house would act wisely in alopting (alaugb)—did not think duct of tie Government lie did not think there was any it. If the upon, th e the houte would enter into a new necessity for the declaration. Another part of the rese• prospective engagement to liquidate debt. It was very tfon were acted u Jution declared that moderate annual instalments of sur plus revenue should be secured in order to pay off the easy to pear such resolute:eta but how would posterity debts of the war. It was very difficult to know what regard them? (Hear.) Parliament could very well bind corp watioes and other l w di es as to the mode of repay the hon. me m b er meant b y mod , rate annual instalment, 4 I uring the war it was suppose d that one million was a ing their debt', because those bodies could net repeal acts of Parliament; whereas the ROW° of Co mmons o f moderate annual i ns t a l men t . A nother moaerate annual instalment took the shap e o f 1 , 250 , 000/ . There was an- I one day could abrogate the decision cf another. other loan and a no th er mo d erate i nstalment Of a mil tun true principles upon which the hou e should act_r The nae and a half. Then the Exchequer-bonds came, and the num vectigal parsimhniath— was retrenchment of expent annual instalment required was two and a half milaons, diture, and a more jealous and vigilant ectnomy than while the arrangement for the succeeding year was three I had of late years be en o b serva bl e. (H ear, hear.) and a half m illi ons ; so t h at i t was quite impossible to i Sir H. WILLOUGHBY thought the hon. member lay down any system of annual instalments. For in- . for Devonport had done good service it; raising the pre staaee, it was seldom possible to reduce the war expen• 1 sect ditcuation. It was of great importance that the fdtitthre immeditwely after the war ; or t h ere m i ght be a I f un d e d .debt of the country should not bo i n d e fi n i te l y amine, or som e o th er soc i a l disturbance ; or you might ! postponed, and he concurred with the bun. member for have to increase your armaments in time of peace in con- , Oxford that the true m e th o d o f re d uc i ng t h at d e b t was sequence of th e attitude of oth er nations or there mi g ht : a zealous and v i g il ant economy, be donaeatio insurr ection. All these things might hap ; Lord J. RUSSELL thought there were two pen in in time of Peace, and therefore, because we were Coos rai-ed by the hon , member for a:vonport, cue an not at war, to lay dow n an • tam of surplus Would. it, hie(.ll,B,,heoaprin)ion, he an exceedingly and the second, the financial condition of the present unwise measure, t _ ,,, And what was the year. He remembered the old sinking fund, and he could particular proposition wtioh hot , hem ? He sap_ i t ,. ,... onourable member not agree with Use hon. gentleman in the conclusion at 1 ,13 (which will i hen; ,e you pay off your which lie had arrived. Under that system, the Chance! r , and, four years) for of the Exchequer, whenever he wanted a loan of 14 tittite wi n king o f f u fi n% nce , ,t, in l the mean- or 15 millions, went into the market and got 20 madame se a committee weoreay down a so that all the apparent gain was but temporary arid te !e t " . Well, but if they postpone the a the disadvantage of the cour try. The old sinking fund ad it not be as well to rarait e te ar l . he considered a very bad system, and the act of 1829 ; 1 they had the report of the ce providing that only the surplus of the revenue should Thancellor of the Exchequer's) ut L member be a wpplied to the reduction of the debt, was a good Tangement proposed by the hon. teue, and he was sorry to find that they were a, that it would never work, and that tOkt „ ;no t t n egee bajk to that sysrem. At the same time he could .Aciple for reducing the debt was that eon- SA of Geo.lV afiti tuifior s'itigb, although ._ mar 1 Irit the Chancellor had made any provision for _ ./ 4 pas of that kiad, wad he thought, it was Veiliiiilo _ -aira~' no part with a million this year and two millions next year income tax, when it was so much needed, and when it might at all - events have been applied to the reduction of the debt. The right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated that he had made a reduction of 800,0001. in the estimates of the late Government., 400,0001. being on the civil estimates, buts the revenue would not be at all benefited by that reduction. He thought the whole question required revision, and that it might be satisfactorily referred to a select committee, especially as the estimates were so large and the burden of taxation on the people so heavy. Mr. W. EWART recommended a general revision of taxation on articles of consumption, and expressed his !egret that he could not give his support to the amend ment of the bon, member for Davenport. He thought that we should pay off our sinking fund or not pay it off according to our convenience. (Hear, hear.) The amendment was negatived without a division, and the house went into committee on the bill. The clauses were agreed to, and the bill was reported to the house. SUPPLY—MILITARY ORGANISATION. On the order for going into committee of supply, Captain VIVIAN called the attention of the house to the resolution relating to military organisation, which was adopted by the house on Tuesday, the let of June, and in reference to which the Chancellor of the Ex chequer said it was not the intention of Government to take any steps either in or out of the house. That reso lution he introduced to the house, and the house did him the honour to agree to it. It had been said that it was the oiject of the resolution to do away with the office of Commander-in-Chief, and that the army would be op posed to that step. He (Capt Vivian) bad spoken to a large number of members of the onidtary profession, and most of them were in favour of some rugs change as he had proposed, and all were unanimous in denunciation of the present system, for they had not forgotten the misfortunes of the Crimea, or that while the army was starving before Sebastopol there were heaps of food in the harbour of Ida!Alava. The medipal organ'. sation of the army was also most defective. He should be doing wrong were he not to say that the present commander-in-chief had done everything that he could to reverse the sad state of things that had so long pre• veiled, but he believed that the position of the comman der-in-chief was a very unpleasant one to him as well as to the public. (Hear.) He had no responsibility, and his office was in all respects an anomalous one. He con sidered that the Minister of War should have the power of selling commissions for the public good. The right hon. gentleman the member for Wil - s (Mr. S. Herbert) sold 100 commissions for 450,0001, and ehat proceeding he had certainly heard very severely criticised. In Aus tria, Sardinia, and Prussia, the principle of bis resolu tion was adopted, and he did not see why it should not be carried out in this country. The principle bad been affirmed by the house, but the Chancellor of the Exche quer a day or two afterwards dispelled a pleasing dream in which he had indulged by the s'atement that the Go vernment wou'd take no notice of it in consequence of thesmaliness of the number of members who voted ; but he would ask whether this was not a dangerous course, and whether it was advisable that it should he left to a Minister to say what was the majority on which action should be taken ? (Hear.) If the Chancellor of the Eurelaequer had stated that the house was taken by sur • prise and had moved that the resolution should be read at the table and rescinded, that would undoubtedly have been a fair course, but the course taken was extremely discourteous to the house on the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he thought he had a right to com plain. He believed that this subject had taken so strong a bold of the public mind that before long the right hon. gentleman would be compelled on the part of his Govern ment to reverse the decision at which be had arrived. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the hon. and gallant gentleman had introduced the subject with so much fairness and so much temper that he did not wish to lose a moment in replying to his observations, and assuring him that be laboured under an entire misconception as to the course which he pursued, and the feelings that influenced him when the hon. and gallant gentleman brought forward this question on a former occasion. He did not reply to the speech of the hon. and gallant gentleman on the former occasion for this reason alone, that that speech was most com pletely and ably replied to by a noble lord on the other aide of the house ; and be (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) felt a reluc'ance, which all persons felt, to repeat the same arguments. He thought the motion of the hon. and gallant gentleman had been carried unex pectedly, and notwithstanding the ingenious gloss of the hon. and gallant gentleman, he believed it was carried much to the surprise of the whole house. (Hear ) He had said that the resolution of the hon. and gallant gentleman was carried by a bare majority, but he would ' admit to him that some of the most important decisions of that house had been carried by small majoritiee The hon. and gallant gentleman alluded to the small majority which sustained the government of Lord Mel bourne, and be had no doubt the remembrarces of the noble lord, the member for the City of London, would supply them with many others. (Hear, hear.) The Act of Settlement had been carried by one of the smallest majorities on record. The decision of a majority, however small, in matters of legislation was absolute, but that was not the case when members of the house proceeded by way of legislation. (Hear.) A resolution of the house was neither irrevocable or bind ing, and the instances were numerous in which no further notice had been taken of them. The house a few years ago had expressed as opinion that the votes for members sent to that house should be taken by bal lot ; the endowment to Maynooth had been denounced by a majority of the house, and his noble friend (Lord Naas) carried his motion with respect to the distillers of Ireland against the government, but in neither of these three instances did the minister act on the opinion of the house thus significantly expressed. It might be said that these were motions for leave to introduce bills (hear)—but no one would pretend to:say that if they had been simple resole i )133 that the government would have acted on them. (Hear.) But there were more recent instances in which the government did not carry out the opinion of the house as expressed in a resolution. In 1855 the committee on the salaries to public officers re ported to the house in favour of a reduction of the salaries to the diplomatic servants of the crown, No notice was taken of the recommendations of that com mittee, and an honourable member brought forward a resolution calling on the house to say that it was their opinion that tee recommendations of that committee with regard to di f 1 oa tic Fe.rvant. , shotil I be imine.liattly acted on. It was opposed by the noble lord (Palmer ston), and although the noble lord was defeated by a majority of 50 or 60, be took no notice whatever of the resolution. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh ) The hon. and gallant gentleman said the conduct of her Majesty's government was unsatisfactory and unprecedented. Un satisfactory it might be, but unprecedented it certainly was not, for they had the precedent of the government of the noble lord, of which the hon, aed gallant gentle man was an ardent supporter. (Rear.) The committee specially reported that the mi-sione to some of the smaller courts of Germany should he terminated, but a vacancy having taken place in the mission to one of those smaller courts to which the decision of the cone niittee referred, and to which the house by their resolu tion gave their most decided sanction, the noble lord just took this notice of that decision and resolution, that he immediately filled up the vacancy. (" llea-, hear," and laughter.) Why did not the hero, and gallant mem ber notice the unsatisfactory and unprecedented c .nduct of the noble lord on that ccea•ion. The noble lord charged him with givi' g a cavalier answer to a question which bad been put to him ; but the noble lord, nut by words but by acts, gave a most cava . i. r reply to the ice onnuendation of the committee and the resole tioa of the house. (dear, hear.) He did not take the same uncharitable view of the conduct of the noble lord on that occasion whi c h th e h ere and gallant gentleman seemed to take of his conduct, for he presumed the noble lord acted from a sense of public duty and tram a due appreciation cf the value of this mission to a Ger man court. (Hear, hear) That was in 1855. What hap pened in 1856 ? The civil service was certainly not inferior in importance to the military or the diplomatic service. The principles on which that service should be established, the means by which the greatest amount of ability might be infused into it, the manner in which it should be renovated—these were questions which had of late years deeply interested the public mind, and which nad been treated by seine of the most eloquent writers and the most experienced public men of the age. Well, there was a noble lord who thought that the competitive system ought to be adopted by the government, and that they had neglected their duty in the matter ; and that noble lord proposed a resolution on the subject, which was carried by a Minister though opposed by a Minister, But what happened ? The Minister never took any notice of the resolution--(hear, bear)—and he believed teat Minister was either the earns distingu'shed indi vidual to whom he had referred (Lord Palmerston) or the noble lord the member fur London. Many persnms might have thought that course unsatisfactory ; no person said it was unprecedented—(hear, hear)—where therefore, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) fount] a resolution relating to the military service carried in a not very full house by a bare majority, a mej irity much smaller than that which carried the resolution which related to the diplomatic service and that which related to tho civil service, surely it was the duty of the government to consider what had been 0- practice under such circumstances. He might have fenced with the question, he might have given his hon. and gallant friend an evasive answer; but the govern ment having considered the matter and formed a decided opinion with regard to it, he thought it was but due to the house that ho should clearly and frankly express their opinion, in order that the hon. and gallant gen tleman might not loco his chance of testing the opinion of the house. lie did Lot understand his hon, and gallant friend to complain of his answer to the hon. baronet the member for Radnorshire (Sir J. Walsh) But there was another hon, gentleman who be thought male an inquiry most unnecessarily after what had oc curred, and his reply to whom had been styled by the noble lord the member for Tiverton a cavalier one. Now he could not supposlthat any h on . gen tl eman imagin e d th at h e intended tpit et with discourtesy towards any hon. member. (Heir, hear.) His highest hope a a n o d d h : , goodwill lya s o s f u r e e l I u4t469.pie gentlemenmb eof t h m a ri t s h t o u f: and wish h a d ever been to secure, if possible, the respect esel—th(haeCr)e—n ' trended as he was.. .with the conduct of the business, and dependent as lie( was on the gentlemanlike feelings of th e n memberrom interact, what ever m i ght be their opinions ust f, Its well as from disposition, be the last person to bo guilty of discourtesy towards any hon. gentleman. (Hear, hear.) The only meaning he conld affix teethe inquiry of the hon, and gallant mem ber .fer ilodmin (Captain Vivian) was that what be wished to learn was whether the Government meant to take any steps other than those which were taken in that house ? In his reply be said that neither in that house nor anywhere else did Government intend to take any steps in the matter, and he was at a loss to under §tiud why that answor olaoulci have been considered dill. placed before tl E a b e , . on tLe. inst ti • finci pp tee woul A, went until .r hie (the CI , (ought the am o artificial one, 1 - t 'only aouod princ Wad is tin 1,44 . _ . of, • • _ _ EVENING, JUNE 29, 1858. courteous. If be had said anything discourteous he extremely regretted it. ([sear, hear.) He considered the course which the Government took perfecty regular and :straightforward. The hon. and gallant gentleman seemed to him to misunderstand the position in which by an unfortunate accident he found himself. This — was not the first time in his life that he (the Chancellor of the Eechequcr) had seen those who really seemed to de serve success, and who had laboured hard to attain it, em barrassed by unexpected good fortune. (Laughter.) It was said that the bird never made so much noise as when she 'laid her first egg; and he could easily conceive an hon. gentleman who had just carried hie first resolution being overpowered by success. (Laughter.) But, as the laying of the first egg was only a very natural ope ration, so the carrying of the first resolution was in the due course of Parliamentary nature, and though it was not the good for one of everyone to meet with ir, every one should be prepared for success. (Laughter.) Now what was the carrying of this resolution ? There was a declaration of the house to a certain extent ; but, in stead of proceeding in the path on which he bad entered, the hon. gentleman, stupefied with success, said in effect —"I have gained the opinion of the House of Commons in favour of the policy which I recommend—l shrink from pursuing that policy—(No, no)—and I asl you to come forward and rescind my resolution." Trembling at the continuance of success, he looked forward t> the safety-valve of Ministers getting his resolution rescinded. Now, he thought the conduct of the hon. gentleman wag, to use an expression of his own, unsatisfactory and unprecedented. (Hear, hear.) There had, indeed, been instances of resolutions being fe- chided in that house. Ile could mention t • ; but birth had reference to fiscal maters, and it was absolutely necessary to rescind them, because if they had been left unnoticed they would have affected the revenue of the country. The two re solutions to which he referred related respectively to the malt duties and the sugar duties. The hon. and gallant gentleman (Capt. Vivia. ) would neither ask the house to assist him in carrying his policy into effect nor rest con tented with the barren triumph he had already achieved, but he had rated and scolded the ministry because they did not act upon his resolution or propose to rescind it. Now, he maintained that the course which they had taken was a parliamentary course, a course which was justified by precedents, and that they had done their duty throughout these transactions. He should hardly notice the general ob servations of his hon. and gallant friend, as he had an nounced that he intended to bring the subject before the house on some future occasion ; but he must say, with regard to the instances of France, Austria, and other great military states which he hal adduced as prece dents for this country, that he could not forget that the laws, and manners, and customs of England were dif ferent from those of great military and ceetralised states. (Hear.) If, indeed, the Commander-in-Chief was totally irresponsible, or in any way irresponsible, he should be perfectly ready to meet any hon. gentleman who pro posed to consider a state of things so anomalous in rela -1 tion to the constitution and so injurious to the service of the country. But, knowing as he did, from every day's experience, that the Coenreandenin.Chief was under the direct authority of the Secretary of State, and could do nothing without his approbation, not only was he contented, but he rejoiced that in a country like this the discipline of the army was left to the Commander in -Chief, while the civil administration was carried on by the Secretary of State, the Commander-in-Chief being, not only on grew, questions, but practically on every question, responsible to the Government of the day, while the Government was responsible to Parlia ment. That was a system which, in his opinion, was more consistent with constitutional government than any of the centralised systems to which the hon. and gallant gentleman had referred. The hon. and gallant gentleman, in speaking of the patronage of the army, said he should be very sorry to see that corrupting element introduced into the House of Commons, adding that be had no doubt some plan might be devised by which that would be prevented. What was wanted, however, on questions of this kind was, for reformers to come forward with some plans. (Hear.) They did not want mere windy announcements of great changes with the salvo that no doubt when the question was discussed, the obvious difficulties would be removed. If the hon. and gallant gentleman himself proposed some mode of meeting these difficulties, he would occupy a much more commanding position than he did by having obtained a majority of one or two. This majority would of course have been sufficient on the last stage of the bill, but when the hon. and gallant gentleman assumed that such a majority in favour of a resolution constituted an expression of opinion which could not be revoked or questioned, he must join issue with him. He would un dertake, when this question was brought forward with fair notice, there should be no lack of discussion, and that so far as the Government were concerned, the mat ter should have that fair and ample deliberation which it deserved. (Cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL said it was true that this Govern ment differed from the Governments of foreign countries in this respect, that Parliament had a voice which was entitled to its weight, but the Chancellor of the Exche quer put it that the Parliament had icdeed the power of expressing an opinion, and then it was for the Minister to consider whether that opinion should be acted on r r no. He could not understand that the decisions of thia house were to be held at nought. Meer ' hear.) The right hon. gentleman q uo t e d precedents, but they were caeca in which the resolution could not be carried out without an act of Parliament. One case was one in which an act of Parliament was proposed by Govern ment, in accordance with the resolution which met the approval of the house. There was one precedent which Applied, that of the resolution on the diplomatic service, but he could not think the Minister was justified in pay ing no attention to the resolution. If that was to be the constant course, resolutions of this house would become wholly futile. This resolution was one which could not be made the foundation of an act of Parliament, it was a question of administration, and Government ought either to have acted on i', or, if they said it was carried by a small mnoj amity and by surprise, to have moved a resolution to reecied it—(bear, hear)—and not to MY:et to despise it. It would be uoconstitutional that resolu tions should be paced on record and no attention pail to them. He thought his hon. and gallant friend was right in not pressing the matter further at this advanced period re! the session. His hen. and gallant friend had said that he did not wish to take from the Commander in-Chief the control of thearmy, for it had been said on the other side that the proposal was to place the disci pline of the army under a civilian. It woe an k is 3 for a Commander-in. Chief to dispise the opinion of this house. When a resolution was proposed by Sir John Bowfin on the question of flogging in the army, the late Doke of Weltingteen thought that such a motion would be dangerous is the discipline of the army. But the Duke of Wellin4ton knew how public opinion swayed the country and this house, and he proposed a resolution to meet that of Sir J. Bowing. If the Commander. in-Chief acted under the authority of the Secretary of State, an inquiry would to doubt easily solve this ques tion. He thought what (ight to be done was to have an inquiry next session. The authority of this house ought. to have ereat weieet in the matter. Ho hoped that there would be as inquiry, and that the artny would br pl iced in a position worthy of it. General PEEL said that when it was complained that the resolution of the hon, and gallant inJiimber was not carried out, he must say he was at a 14 to know how it was to be carried out, if the hon. andogallant gentle man did not wish to interfere with the diecip ine or patronage of the army. He could not see where there was a division of responsibility, which he thought was clearly laid do a n in the patents. lie was responsible directly f r everything but the discipline and patronage, atol Lldirtectly for them. If there were any gross aris e mduct on the part of the Cornmander.in-Chief, the Minister would have to call on him fir explanations, and if they were not satisfactory, to insist on his re moval or resign office. He had found no difficulty, and was working in perfect harmony with the Commander in -Chief, and he had not the slightest doubt that if Par liament would not interfere with the army, it would be carried on much more satisfactorily. Colonel NORTH had conversed with a great number of officers, who were all of opinion that nothing could be more dangerous for the welfare of the army than this motion. But, in order to get an affirmative answer from these officers he had consulted, his hon, and gallant friend must have introduced the question by a compari son with foreign countries. No doubt if the Minister at War could always be a soldier, then it would be best that the two offices should be combined. The evils which had arisen aro3e mainly from the interference of civilians with the army. (Hear, hear, and oh, oh.) The green coffee in the Crimea, to wit, for they owed that to Sir Charles Trovelyan. The member for Bodmin, who, during the discussion, was running about like an aide-de camp, owed his majority of two to Lord J. Rus sell ceding out to him, "Now is your time." (..1 laugh.) He contended that this resolution struck at the pre roeative of the Crown. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) help thinking that th e l e tt ers o f c i v ili ans had c' noole o j t ect but to throw discredit on the state ments of his right hon. and gallant friend the Secretary far War, than whom no mail enjoyed more completely the confidence of the officers of the army. Ile had answered all questions in the most complete, satisfac tory, honourable, and, straight orward manner. The gallant colonel then entered into some explanations as to the question he had put a few nights ago with re spect to the sale of commissions by the Commander-in- Chief. He believed the fact was as stated on that occa sion—that no commission had been sold [since 1325. Sir W. CODRINGTON said the great difficulty was to drew the line of distinction where the authority of ono ended and the other began, and as long as the two worked as harmoniously as at present, there would be no clashing. But there was a line where clashing might aria , . The line ought to be drawn distinctly either by words or by custom. He would defy the Secretary of War, if a civilian, to say that he would be responsible for courts-martial as for the distribution of honours , . The responsibility s • her direct or indirect, should be in the name of, , ilimenender-in-Chi e f himself, or he wool Ibe shelt ..imself under the nominal responsi bility of the wry for War. The latter, however, mu-t neceseari eeponsible for the expenditure and for the civil depa meats. It was of course impossible to compare this country, with its control of Parliament over expenditure, with any of the foreign countries al laded to. Mr. ELLIS agreed with his bonourille and gallant friend (General Peel), but then the question was, whe ther ho had sufficient command over the Commander-in- Chief to be responsible for his actions, bearing in mind he was not responsible to that house. The question de pended on thi', whether the time had arrived if the only person to take the opinion of the Crown upon military affairs was the Secretary of State for War. (Hear, hear.) He eulogised the conduct of the right hon. gentleman since be had held office, and said the service could not be in better lunch.. (bear, hear.) With respect to the whole system, the house required great information to know that the consolidations were in the right direction, awl would answer the autc; : _ _ pationg predicted of them. He hoped next session a •.1 , uld be appointed on this important sub, ject. Sir F. SMITH supported the present system. Every department was doing its best, and he expected great improvement in•ehe service during the ensuing year. The subject then dropped. GRENEWICH HOSPITAL. Sir C. NAPIER moved that it wal the opinion of this house that the sailors and rnariztes in Greenwich Hospital should be allowed to receive their pensions for wounds and injures in tie same manner as officers. Sir J. PAKINGTON asked the hon. and gallant officer to postpone his motion till a later period. Hui (Sir J. Pakington'e) at'ention had been called to the grievance complained of. It bore particularly on the married men, whose wives, on their going into the hos pital, had to go into the workhouse. That was a state of things that ought not to exist, and he bad caused an inquiry to be made into the subject, and as it was under the investigation of the A-lmiralty he hoped the hon. and gatlant admiral would not press his motion. The regula'ions required alteration. Sir C. NAPIER expressed his satisfaction at the statement of the right hon, baronet, and withdrew his motion. The motion was then withdrawn. THE PESTILENTIAL STATE OF THE THAMES Mr. ROUPELL rose to call the attention of the house to the noxious state of the Thames, and to move, "that the house considers it the duty of the executive Government to take immediate measures for abating this dangerous nuisance." The hon. gentleman said the difficulty the house w-re in arose from their having made that a local which was essentially an imperial question. ("Hear," and "No, no.") If it were not an imperial question, on what principle could they justify tbe veto they had given the First Commissioner of Works upon the plans of the Metropolitan Board— (hear) —or how could they justify the levying of the special metropolitan taxes, such as the co a l t ax , tb e d uty on omni buses and cab s , which amounted to 160,0001. a year, and other imp fists ? (gear, hear,) He might be told of such towns as Hull, Liverpool, and Birkenhead, and the works of public improvement which had been carried out at the expense of those plac-s. But these works bad not been effected by direct local taxation, but by taxes on shipping and other similar modes of levying the oost upon the general trade of the country. (Hear.) At the present moment, however, the metropolis was called upon to execute at its own cost great works of public utility. Thew were told that they must take their sewage to Sea Reach, or to the German Ocean ; and he had no doubt some hon. gentleman would be disposed to have it carried still further. (Qeestion.) Anyhow it was to be a grand work, and to cost money. But how was it poseible to raise the sum that would be required, say from 10 to 15 millions, by d root local tax ition S Taey might just as well attempt to raise the whole revenue of the country by an income tax of from 10s. to 12s. in the pound. (Hear, hear.) He was not arguing that the veto of the Government upon the plans of the 13 rard of Works should be removed. On the contrary, he should look with great suspicion on any proposition of the kind ; and he considered that the late First Commissioner (Sir B. Hall) deserved great credit for refusing to sanction the plans which had been submitted to him, and which were contrary to the Act of Parliament. (Hear.) He would remind the house that what was wanted was an immediate remedy ; whereas the plans that had been proposed for relieving the remedy would take from five to seven years, in which time half the inhabitants might be poisoned. He should now move his amendment, with a view to test the feelings of the house ; but on another occasion be should propose that the Thames Commissioner be made permanent, and have power to act in conjunction with the Chief Commissioner of Works and the Board of Conservancy, for the purification of the river and the improvement of its bank.. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. PAXTON, in seconding the motion, observed that the improvements at Birkenhead had been chiefly carried out by himself, and not a farthing had been raised for that purpose except by local taxation. (Hear.) With regard to the Thames, be had spent the whole of Satur day last in investigating the subject, and be had come to the conclusion that a very efficient remedy might be found for at all events the greater proportion of the nui sance. He had communicated his views to Mr. Bidder, who had given his attention to the subject for many months, and Mr. Bidder had told him that the plan met with his confidence, although it was not anew proposal, but one that been communicated to the Board of Works last year. It was that lime should be pot into the prin cipal sewers at about three-quarterss of a mile from the Thames ; so that by the time it reached the river the sewage would be cern,eletely deodorised. To be sure this plan would discolour the water and it would kill the fish. (A. laugh.) All deodorising schemes involved the destruction of the fish ; but, after all, what they wanted was that people should not be killed. (Hear.) He be lieved that if this plan were adopted, the river would in eight and forty hours be in a very different condition. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. MANNERS bad no intention to enter into the wide question which had been submitted to them by the hon. member for Lambeth ; but the house would no doubt like to know what steps would be taken by her Majesty's Government to abate the serious evil com plained of. (Hear.) On Saturday last ho (the noble, lord) communicated with the Metropolitan Board of Works, and authorised them to apply lime in the man ner the hon. gentleman the member for Covectry'had suggested; and he had every reason to hops that the board would apply the remedy without delay, to all the chief sewers of the metropolis. (Hear.) The Govern ment had also instructed two officers of the Board of Heal . b to visit and inspect the docks ; and if these gen tlemen shonld suggest any measures as likely to remove the ex to ing evils, the Government would be prepared to take whatever steps might be necessary for that purpose, (Hear.) So far, however, as they were at present informed, it did not seem likely chat the state of the docks would have any material effect upon the state of the rise r. (Hear, hear.) When the Metropolitan Board of Works propose I to the Government any general scheme which seemed likely to effect the ends they had in view, it would rec.ive immediate consideration, end the Govern ment would not hesitate to afford every facility for carrying that scheme into effect. (gear, [rear.) Mr. TICE boped that the measures which were being tat en for the purpose of affording temporary relief would not hinder the prompt adoption of a permanent scheme, eTecially as he could riot couceive that t'ley would not fail. The opinion of Mr. Stephenson, Mr. Cubitt, and other eminent engineers was that there must be a great intercepting sewer. There was no help for it—that scheme must be carried out ; and it seemed to him that a much less cumbrous body than the Board of Works would be required. If the Government would borrow the money and charge it on the rates, be was satisfied that it could be obtained at a very much lower rate of interest than the board could borrow it at themselves. The aura required would be about 24 milliene, which, spread over thirty or forty years, would not add a very serious additional burden to the rates. (Lear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the amenchnent applied to an immediate remedy, and not to works ‘if a permanent character such as those which the hon. gentleman who spoke last had referred to; and it wculd he ex rernely inconvenient, by discussing the latter, to stop the committee of supply. (Hear, hear.) He could assure the e that so far as immediate retne lies avert, her Majesty's Government bad taken the most vigorous measures. They had sanctioned, on the previous Saturday, plans which would require 200 or 250 tons s-f lime every day, and which could not be carried out for less than 1,500/ a week. Mr. COX announced his intention to take the sense of the house at the earliest day on the question whether the whole cal of the permanent works should be thrown upon the metropolis ? For his own part, he would never consent to tax the metropolitan ratepayers 2r. in the pound for twenty years for the main drainage of Len dun. Mr. BLA.CKBURN hoped the hon. gentleman would take as early a day as possible. (Hear) It seemed to bins only simple justice that the house should refuse to give the inhabitants of the metropolis a single farthing towards cleansing the river which they themselves spoilt. Sir J. SHELLEY said that the iuhabitants of the metropolis did not object to pay for the drainage of their own district, but they objected to pay for carrying the sewage five or six miles bel iw Oat district. He took it for granted that the G .vernment would pay out of the C,neolidated Fund the 1,50 C/. a week to which the right hon. gentleman had referred, because they had no power whatever to direct the Board of Works in what way it should expend the money it had raised by rates. (Hear.) Mr. J. LOCKE agreed with the hon. baronet that the Govnoment could not interfere in the expenditure of the rates raised by the Board of Works. It was clearly a matter of impossibility to levy a metropolitan rate suffi cient fur the purification of the Thames. It would in fact ' be a c mfiscation of property, as the present rates were so heavy that they had put a stop to all improvements. If they bad any rate, it should be an imperial one. How had this nuisance occurred Formerly, before this stench arose, London was drained iu the ordinary manner by cesspools ; but an act of Parliament was passed compel ling every parish to drain into the river. - Tne House of C,mmons had done the mischief, and the House of Com mons should find the remedy by levying a fair uniform rate on the whole c)mmunity. He was satisfied that the various constituencies who were so attached to their members would not grumble at anythin 2' that contributed to their comfort. Mr. BENTINCIC said that the case had now become intelligible, It was clear that the metropolitan members would not consent to a metropolitan rate, and he on his part could inform them that he and many other members were equally determined that the expense f purifying the metropolis should not be eefrayed by the general constituencies of the country. He wag, however, willing to assist them with a loan, provided its repayment could be secured without the slightest chance of evasion. (A laugh.) Lord EBRINGTON thought the explanatien of the Chief Commissioner unsatisfactory and should like to know who was to pay for the present palliative—he feared imperfectly palliative —measures. He wa+ glad, however, to see the increased interest now evinced on metropolitan affair?, as he remembered that when the drainage bill was before Parliament it was discussed in houses varying from 9 to 20 members. The motion wag then withdrawn. THE STOREKEEPER AT WEEDON. Col. BOLi)ERO then rose to move that an humble ad dress be prereted to her Majesty, praying that she will be graciousl .-leased to appoint a royal commission to in quire into t g ..e.., , ,stem upon which the books and stock have been respects'', 1 , kept at Weedon, as well as the general -mode in which Ig..,.. b usiness of the establi s h men t a t Wee don has be en cited, the result of such mode of con ducting the busi . , and the state of the books and stock of stores. The hog'. and gallant member (the chairman of the committee which has sat upon the general subject of army clothing) proceeded to draw attention to the highly unsatisfactory state in which the storekeeper's accounts had been kept. In order that these accounts might be die 9tanalcdi and 691110 thing like ii Flit It OtigAGWrii to t4O military authorities might be obtained, 20 clerks were suc cessively sent down to -Weedon, but the accounts for 1856-7 were not yet settled. It appe..red that the accounts of stores kept at Wecdon were most scandalously kept that no day books wore forthcoming, and that one and the same officer had the receipt and issue of these stores with out any check 'upon him. Captain Gordon was sent to relieve Mr. Elliott as storekeeper, .and yet the latter re tained his higher salary of 8501. a-year. The hon. and gallant member entered at length into a statement to show the malpractices which had baen resorted to in the way of procuring boot,, kite, and accoutre ments, and pouch belts, at a cuntract price, and dis posing of them to the army at a highly advanced price. These facts had been proved before the com mittee, and it would be highly prejudicial to the public service to permit the conduct, of which the -storekeeper had been guilty to pass uureiroved. The committee bad hal great difficulties to encounter, and they bad detected a system pursued at Wooden at once disgraceful and disre putable. He proposed a commission, with an efficient actuary at its head, which should probe the evil to its root. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. C. GILPIN con' ialy seconded the motion, thanking the hon. and gallant member for the promptitude with which he had come forward to correct a geese abuse. Ho hoped that if any opposition was to be offered to the mo tion, it would not be on the part of any members of the late Government, under whose administration many of these evils of malversation had occurred. On this inquiry would depend the very principle of administrative reform, of which he regretted that much had not recently been heard of late. Gen. PEEL had not the slightest intention to oppose the motion, but he did not augur those great results from in quiry which his hon. and gallant friend seemed to antici pate. He had himself caused inquiries to be made on ac ceding to his present office, and had ordered that the sol diers should have have their kits at a proper price. The system of clothing had also been changed. (Hear.) He hoped the commission would do justice to all. (Hear.) He had no desire to scree❑ any persons. The department to which he belonged, indeed, was deeply interested in hav ing all these matters conducted satisfactorily. The reports he had received from other establishments were of a satis factory character. With regard to Weedon, he thought the fault lay not in the ordnance regulations themselves, but must, be ascribed to their evasion. (Hear.) Mr. A. BARING said that Mr. Elliott had utterly dis regarded the ordnance regulations, and the consequence was that the accounts were in a complete state of confu sion. He hoped the house would suspend its judgment until the commission had reported. Mr. JACKSON thanked the Minister of War for the readiness with which he had granted the commission, that form of enquiry on the spot being the only method of eliciting the truth. (Hear.) Mr. CONINGHAAI hoped that justice would be done to Sergeant Brodie, who bad been instrumental in bringing about these inquiries. Next session, ho trusted that the system of patronage pursued at the Horse Guards itself would be brought under investigation. (On.) A searching inquiry into the practices in all the public departments would bu the only way of securing economy. The Horse Guards must be brought to book. (Oh, oh, and cries of " Question.") The hon. member, amidst repeated cries of " Question," said he had heard it recommended that the Thames should be turned into the Horse Guards (a laugh) —but he would not torn it on them in its present putrid state. (Laughter.) The Horse Guards must be turned in side out. (Laughter.) Mr. D. NICOLL extolled the conduct of Sergeant Bro die, and Tim motion was agreed to. The Chief Justice of Bombay Bill was read a third time and passed. __. The Herring Fisheries (Scotland) Bill was read a second dime. CONFIRMATION OF EXECUTORS, &c., BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. THE ART UNIONS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was also read a third time and passed. The house then adjourned at a quarter past one o'clock. NAVAL AND MILITARY INTELLIGENCE Yesterday morning, at 10 o'clock, the Grenadier Guards were mustered in Hyde-park and reviewed by his Royal Highness the Prince Consort, at tended by Col. Seymour, Lord Rokeby, and a nu merous staff of officers. The Duke of Cambridge, attended by Lord Burgbersh and Colonel Foster, went to Aldershot yesterday and reviewed the whole of the troops at the camp. There are now upwards of 6,000 men under canvass, including artillery, &c. The 2d Life Guards and 11th Hussars are ex pected to arrive at Aldershot in a few days. it is also rumoured that her Majesty will inspect the troops about the sth of July. The ceremony of presenting a set of new colours to the Ist or Chatham Division of Royal Marine Light Infantry took place yesterday morning in the presence of a large number of spectators. The en tire battalion of the division, numbering upwards of 600 strong, asiembled on their parade-ground at 12 o'clock, under the command of Colonel W. H. Parke, the commandant of the division. The old colours of the division were presented by his late Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence, iu the. year 1827, at which time he was Lord High Admiral, his Royal Highness considering that it was the highest compliment he could pay to so distinguished and valuable a body of men. The old colours were yesterday borne to the front of the division for the last time by Second Lieutenants R. J. Pascoe and H. M. Kay, being guarded by a colour-guard of 100 men, under the command of Captain E. S. Browne, the senior captain of the division. Shortly after 12 o'clock Vice-Admiral of the Red E. Harvey, Com mander-in-Chief at the Nore, accompanied by Major-General S. R. Wesley, Deputy Adjutant- General, Royal Marines, with Captain Q. Gold smith, C. 8., Superintendent of Chatham Dock yard, arrived on the parade ground, and was received with a general salute. The old colours were then advanc-2d to the front and saluted by the entire division, after which they were neatened off the ground, the band playing "Should auld ac quaintance." After the new colours had been nu furled and laid across the drums, the cerc merry of wh it is termed "consecrating" them was performed by the Rev. Allen Fieldir4r, M.A., Chapl iin of Chatham Dockyard. Admiral Harvey then took the colours and handed them to First Lieutenants C; Stark and F. S. Boxer, briefly remarking that ho felt highly honoured in being deputed by the Lords of the Admiralty to present the new colours to so distinguished a corps, who would make it their pride to keep them unsullied. The colours were then saluted by the entire battalion, and trooped with the bandand guard, after which the ceremony ended, and the battalion was dismissed. The eld colours will be taken to Greenwich Hospital, where they will be preserved. The embarkation of the large number of rein forcements which the authorities have determined on despatching to India is still pros e ling at Graves end. Yesterday the Commandant of Chatham Garrison proceeded to Gravesend for the purpose of inspecting tho.e vessels which have been taken up for the conveyance of troops. The first vessel inspected was the Blenheim, Cept. J. F. Atkinson. She is a fine vessel of 1,400 tons, and will embark the following troops for Calcutta this day—viz , one officer and 230 men of all ranks of the 23d R Welsh Fusileirs ' ftoin Chatham ; 138 men o f th e Ist battalion of the 60th Rifles, and 30 men of the 2d Battalion 60th Rifles, from Winchester ; 2 offi cers of the 77th Regiment, from Jersey ; and 1 officer of the 6th Foot, from Colchester ; total, 3 officers and 398 men. The Merchantman, 1,018 tons, will embark the following troops fur Calcutta: —33 men of the sth Fusiliers, 134 men of the 6th Foot, 152 men of the 34th Regiment, and 24 men of the 38th Regiment, Item C o l c h ester . total, 343 Lieut.-Colonel Congdon, Capt. Webb, First Lieutenants Delacombe and Lane, Adjutants Ellis and Fraser, G sergeants, and 100 rank and file of the Woolwich division of the Royal Marine Light Infantry were yesterday ordered to be in attend ance in Deptford Dockyard at 2 p.m. to form a guard of honour for the reception of her Majesty on her visit to the Great Esstern. The Queen's colours were borne by Lieut. Lane. Colon 1 Hamilton Fleming, Acting Commandant of the division, likewise attended her Majesty at Dept ford. The Admiralty yacht Vivid, in c)mmand of Commodore Shepherd, yew erday proceeded to Deptford in the service of the Court. Admiralty instructions were yesterday received by Commodore Shepherd, at Woolwich, to ascer tain the amount of extra moorings necessary to be laid down at Greenlithe f or th e tem p or ary station of the seamen's floating hospital Dre,idnought, ordered to be removed to a purer atmosphere. The steam-frigat e P ene l ope , 22, Capt S ir Wil liam Wiseman, arrived at Spithead, yesterday from the Cape of Good Hope, which she left Anr.l 16 ; arrived at St. Helena May 3, and sailed the 7th ; arrived at Ascension the 13th, and sailed the 15th. At St. Helena were the United States corvette Portsmouth, the American barque Chameleon, and the English ship Saladin. The ship Napoleon 111. was under repairs, and about t - ) be hove down. A sad accident occurred on board the Penelope on firing the salute yesterday noon in honour of her Majesty's Coronation-day. The 8-inch gun at the pert gangway, by some means unexplained, wa s fired before the man charged with loading it bad withdrawn from the muzzle ; the consequence was the man was blown into the sea ; on being re covered it was found that Lis hand was blown off between the wrist and the elbow. He was sent off immediately in the ship's cutter to Haslar Hospital. The Victor Emmanuel freightship wss surveyed at Portsmouth Dockyard yesterday by the medic )1 and other authorities preparatory t ) taking in her troops this day for India, as before reported. The following appointments were made yester day at the Admiralty : Captain Sir G. Broke, to the Centurion, vice Captain Fanshawe, invalided ; Commander F. H. Stevens and Com man d er A . R . H enry, ' to be In specting Commanders o f th e C oas t guar d ; L i eut. F. S. Stevenson, to the Scourge ; .Lieut. J. W. James, to the Illustrious, from the Bullfinch; T. Brado ridge, Paymaste r t o th e S courge ; C. W. Harris, Paymaster, to the Victory and E. Loney, 4 4 4:atap,t-urgeo, to the Ca= POLICE INTELLIGENCE., June 28. WORSHIP-STREET:—Timothy Roward and Sophia Stevens, nine and seven years of age, were charged before Mr. D'Eyncourt, with stealing a sheet. the property of a washerwoman named Mary Conpel. TLe children, who were . cleanly and decently drest•ecl, although belonging to persons in very humble circumstances, appeared perfectly be wildered as they stood before the mi,gistrate, and their mothers behiLd them in tears were almost as much co. A sergeant of the H division of police informed the court that the charge was abandoned, and there was not any prosecutor. M'. D'Eyncourt inquized how long they had been locked up, and was told they had been at the station house siLce Saturday evening, the time the charge was preferred. Mr. D'Eyncourt—Why were they not admitted to bail ? Their parents should have been sent for. S-rgeant—The parents were present, sir, and I used every persuasion to accommodate the facts to the children's age, but the charge was persisted in, and the superintendent thought it better to refuse bail, as it was a case of felony. The boy admitted the theft. Mrs. Howard—Why the boy is strictly honest— the sheet was found afterwards. I offered sixpence to wardi it before then. Sergeant—The children were very well taken carp of at the station, your worship, and we did not know under the circumstances what course to adopt. Chief Clerk—Why, the little things might have gone into fits at being kept from their homes. Mr. D'Eyncourt--They certainly should have been allowed to leave upon bail. However, they are now in the, hands of their parents, who will take them home. The mothers caressed the youngsters and has tened away. WANDSWORTH._Richard Williams, a col lector of tolls at the Kings ton turnpike -gate, ap peared before Mr. Ingham to answer a summons charging him with unlawfully demanding and taking toll from Mr. Alfred Augustus Kibblewbite, the landlord of the Hope public-house, Gravel lane, Sou hwark, when he was exempt by having pre viou-ly paid at anothtr gate. The complainant stated that on the 10th inst. lie accompanied a party of friends to Hampton Court races in a four-wheeled carriage, drawn by one horse. Witness sat near to the driver, and paid the toll of 3d. a t t h e St ag gate, i n the 'Wandsworth road, and received a ticket, which mentioned that they would be exempt from payment at the King ston-gate. On arriving at the gate there was great confusion, in consequence of the immense number of vehicles passing through. He (defendant) was the collector, and witness called out the number of the ticket, which he held open in his hand. The defendant said, "That won't do, I want 3d." Witness then said, " Will the ticket do I" and held it up so that he might look at it. The defendant would not look at the ticket, but merely said, •' You know, 3d." He then gave him the money, and when they re turned the defendant again demanded the toll, but witness got down and showed him the tickets. When witness paid the second toll, the defendant gave him half a ticket, the purport of which he did not understand. When he wished for an ex planation of the toll being taken, the defendant said he knew all about his business, and then threatened to have witness locked up if he inter fered with him. The defendant, in answer to the complainant, said he did not wilfully take the toll. There was always great confusion on the race day, and he did not see the ticket. The complainant said he was served a similar trick by a toll collector on the day of the Epsom races, and he was determined to be very careful on the next occasion. He therefore had the ticket open in his hand, and the defendant must have seen it. There had been a great many complaints, even in his own neighbourhood, where double toll had been demanded on the race days, and as many persons would• not come forward to prosecute, the system fell heavily upon the public. Mr. Ingham was very glad the witness had brought this case before him, as he had heard from the police of grave complaints made by the public of being charged double toll on the race days. He should fine the defendant 20s. and 10s. ccsts on this occasion, but if he ever appeared again the full penalty of 5/. would be inflicted. The money was immediately paid. Country Maricets. NE WCASTLE—JuNE 27. A small supply of farmers' wheat, which went off readily at is per qr. advance on last Saturday's rates. For South country and foreign there is a better demand at rather more money. Oats dull. Other articles unchanged. COLCHESTER —JUNE 26. There was a small supply of English wheat, and the late rates maintained. Very little business done. Beans, peas, and other spring corn fully as dear. Prices to-day wen as follow :—Wheat, white, 463 to 50s; red, 42s to 465; barley, 32s to 36s ; oats, 24s to 28s ; beanr, Mazagan, 38s to 40s; middle and small, 42s to 445; pear, white, 42s to 41s ; grey, 44s to 465. alcial Statement of the Quantities of Corn, &c, in the port of London, from the following p 4 Juno 21 to Jane 26, both inclusive. ~ received )rts, from t y d ti* -j ao ei `) 74 • U *ta' Colchester i j 134 / 74 200 Harwich 268) ) , 1 g g 4 P., 4, - 325 - 610 Loigh naldon 132 6f 103( !HOS KIB , KCALDY—JUNE 26. We had small supplies of wheat and oats to-day, which sold at much the same as last week. Little barley in the market. Wheat. Barley. I Oats. 1 B eans. I First Second Third 33s 01 —s 01 22s 6J ( Os ud COAL MARKET.—JUNE 23. Prices of Coals per ton at the close of the market s. d.I Welland, &c. Benton West Hartley.l4 0 Bebside W. Hartley l5 0 B enson.... Budd's) W. Hartley l5 0 Eden Grey's West Hartley ....14 6 Whitworth Tyne Main 12 9 Heng e t). Hall Walker Primrose .........12 0 Haw n Lambton . ...... Wsllsend, &c. Acorn Close l4 Gosforth l3 Nixon's Duffryn. 20 Hartlepool Hetton l5 StevrArt's. 16 Thorp l6 West Hetton 14 South Hetton 16 8. d. ~.14 0 _.14 6 ~.14 6 ...14 0 ..16 6 .16 0 Hunwick 6 Powell's Dulll7n Steam 20 6 Tees l6 6 South Kelloe 15 0 Braddyll l5 6 Riddell l3 0 Haswell 16 6 Keiper Grainge ...15 3, Ships at market, 144 ; sold, 103 [ADVERTISEMENT.] —Holloway '8 Pills.—There is no hazard in saying that the popularity of Professor Hol loway's remedies in this country is without a parallel. The instances in which sick persons professionally con demned to death have recovered under the operation of these miracle-looking Pills, are so numerous, and well authenticated, that the most subborn incredulity is silenced. Hosts of sufferers from indigestion, liver complaints, nervous debility, disorders of the bowels, epileptic fits, and other diseases have been cured by this unnaproachable medicine, when every other means had failed. The press teems with the testimonials of the parties, and while we wonder, we are compelled to be lieve.—Sold by all medicine vendors throughout the world ; and at Professor. Holloway's Establishment, 224, Strand, London. BIRTHS. COOKE —On tho 26th in9t., at Elmfield Lodge, Southall, Lady Cooke, of a daughter. PONSONBY—On the 27th inst., the Hon. Mrs. Ashley Ponsouby, of 29, Rutland-gate, of a daughter. RIPON —On the 2ith inst., at 4, Glocester-squaro, Hyde. park, the wife of the Lord Bishop of Ripon, of a son. WARDE—On the 25th iust at Stanhope-stre e t, Hyde park-g-rdens, the wif e o f Colonel Edward Warde, Royal Artillery, of a son. MARRIAGES, BOYES —ASKER— On the 2,,th inst., at Trinity Church, Westbourne-terrace, John Boyes, Esq., of Cornwall terrace, Regent's-pa r k, t o E mma Marie, eldest daughter of Samuel H. Asker, Esq., of Norwich. WARREN—BLACK WOOD— On the 23th inst., at Wymering Church, Hants, Frederic Pelham, Commander R.N., youngest sou of the late Admiral Warren, of East Court, to Annie Charlotte, eldest daughter of the late Captain Sir Henry Blackwood, Bart., R.N. DEATHS. BEALE -On the 21th Inst., at 60, Marine-parade, Brigh. ton, John Evans Beale, of Plaistow, Essex, F.R.C.E., aged 64. CAMPBELL—On the 27th inst., at 47, Queen A nne • s t ree t, Cavendish-square, Archibald Campbell, Esq., late of the Bengal C.S., aged 72. Cox--On the 27th inst., at Moraington•road, Regent's. pack, Philip Cox. CREATON—On the 25th inst., at 36, Seething-lane, Malian, only daughter of George Creaton, of the Bank of Eng. land, aged 5 years. Fit LD---On the Bth April, at Sydney, N• S.W., Suddenly, William Blunt, third son of the late James Field, Esq., of 3loutagu-street, Russell-square, aged a. EisDi LL-021 the 25th inst., at Enfield, James Li. aged 51. Gozmorr : Printed and Pubiished by /WED° YOUNtA of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Th 4 Sun Office, No , , 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of Middlottox, Tuctibh June 20, lag, 9 T tav Co) the Tra tam