The Sun. — London, England, 1858-04-17 00:00:00

IMPERIA. L PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF r.ACIRDS.—(YEsTERDAY.) Their lordships met I,t 5 o'clock, Lord REDESDALE, deputy Speaker , presidi 1 &.• _ Viscount Dung annon au?d.Lord Faversham presented petit i ons a gainst the ad mission of Jews to Parliament, and Lord Talbot and L, )rd Berners presented petitions 11,,-,,ainet th® abolition of c burch-rates. SALE OF POISONS. Lord CAMPBELL as ked the noble earl at the head .0f her Majesty's Goveonment whether it was the -intention of her Msjesty'S' Ministry to introduce a bill this session to regulate the salo of poisons ? ,Earl DERBY said the Secretary of State for the Ironle 'lmpartment had . put hi mself into communication with the I:2iarmaceutioal Society with a view to learn their views aci the subject. (Hear, hear.) The introduc tion of a bill would very much depend upon the nature of the / mewsr to the communication which had not yet been yeceived.. On Monday next he hoped to be in a position to give a definite answer to the question. CUSTOS!S BILL. On the motion of the Earl pf DEBBY the Customs Bih was read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YEsTERD kO The SPLUCER took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following private bills were read a third time and passed • : —Chester Gas ; Knig hton Railway ; Newport (Salop) Markets, Town-hall, &c. ; and Nottingham Gas. The Barnstaple New Water Works Bill was further .considered and ordered for a third reading. PAID COLONIAL AGENTS. Sir JAMES GRA.HA.M. said that on the late dis ca ion, on the motion of the honourable baronet for T a g v k ibtock (Sir J. Trelawney). he (Sir James Graham) stated that the late Sir James Mackintosh was a paid agent of the Canadian colonies. He had reason to be lieve that statement was erroneous, and he expressed his regret at having been led into the mistake. (Hear.) INDIA. Colonel SYKES gave notice of a motion relative to of letters and despatches forwarded by the East India Directs rs to India during the years 1853 to 1857 inclusive. COMMUNICATION BETWEEN LONDON AND' DUBLIN. Mr. Sergeant DEASY asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether any definite arrangements had been made for securing to the public the benefit of improved eoinninnication between London and Dublin ; and, if not, whether there was any immediate prospect of any such arrangement being concluded ! Mr. HAMILTON said he had every reason to believe that a few days would not pass before the draft of a contract for improving the communication be tween the London and North - Western Company, the Holyhead and Chester Railway, and the City of Dublin Company, would be ready. Large and powerful vessels for carrying it out were being constructed. THE CAGLIARI. Mr. FIEA.DLA.M asked the Chancellor cf the Ex chequer whether he had as yet received the opinions of the law officers of the Crown on the subject of the Cagliari ; and if se), whether he could state to the bolls,: what course the Government intended to pursue The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, in the matter of the Cagliari there are two distinct ques tions involved. One is what I might call the national question, and the other the international question. The first concerns the treatment of our two countrymen, Park and Watt ; and with respect to that part of the question, we have received the opinions of the law officers of the Crown, and they are unani mously of opinion that the detention of our countrymen, Park and Watt, was illegal-- (loud cries of hear, hear)—and in consequence of that, and after giving them ourselves all that deliberation so serious a matter requires. we have ad dressed a dispatch to the Minister of the King of Naples, in which the Secretary of State for War has demanded compensation for the grievances that have been expe rienced by our fellow-countrymen, Park and Watt. (Cheers.) Tne international question, as the hon. and learned gentleman must be aware, is one quite distinct from the other, and that it is one in which Eng land has only an interest like other maritime nations. On that we have not yet received the opin ions of the law officers of the crown, and in explanation of what might otherwise appear unaccountable, fairly remind the house what I stated on a former occasion, that on Saturday important documents were received by her Majesty's Government bearing on the question, and whic'a were submitted bo the Attorney• General and his colleagues ; but his time has been so completely ab sorbed lately in conducting the state trial, that he was unable to give the papers that consideration which they absolutely require. Mr. HEADLAM asked the Chancellor of the Exche quer if he would lay the documents referred to on the table of the house The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declined now to comply with the request, but he would do so at the right time. (Hear.) THE PROCTORS OF THE PROBATE COURT. In reply to a question from Mr. HADFIELD. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCEIEItUER said that, according to the claims sent in, the Treasury had estimated the claims of the proctors f,l. compensation, under the late act, at 250,000/. per annum for some years. (Cheers, and oh, oh.) NETLEY HOSPITAL. Mr. WEGUELIN asked the Secretary for War whether the Government had appointed a committee to investigate the report made by the Berraek Hospital Cemanssioners upon Netley Hospital ; and, if so, whether they were prepared to present to the house the report of this committee at the same time as they laid the report of the Barrack Commissioners upon the table of the house ? Mr. TITE asked if there were any objections to de posit the plans in the library of the house ? General PEEL said he intended to send down a board of medical officer/ to examine the locality and report thereon, and he had suspended the works. The plan should be deposited in the library. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. On the motion for adjournment till Monday Mr. DUNCOMBE asked the noble lord the member for Tiverton if he would have any objection in the pre sent position of the question of parliamentary reform to lay upon the table of the house a copy of the bill for the amendment of the laws relating to the representa tion referred to in the speech from the Throne at the commencement of the present session. The hoe, gentleman referred to the state of the represen tation and the reform that had been promised. In refer ence to the India Bdl, that of the late Government had been the reason of producing one from the present Government ; and if the noble lord introduced his bill, it would rio doubt stimulate the present G,vern went to introitii a theirs ; but he despaire I of their doing anything towards Parliamentary Reform, when the noble lord the member for London would no doubt come forward and spread a feather bed before the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on which his bill might safely drop--(laughter),—in the shape of certain resolutions. (R.newed laughter.) Lord PALMERSTON said it was his intention to have introduced a party reform bill this see ion if he had been permitted. The late Government had two subjects of importance to deal with—viz., the Government of India and Parliamentary reform. Her Majesty's late Government thought it advisable (how rightly he must leave it to the house to decide—:augh er) to de .vote their attention to the former, and introduce that bill first, and then to introduce the other. Circumstances however had " cut short."—(laughter) —their official ex ieteuce and they had net the opportunity of Introducing it. His answer to the question was that the subject had not so far advanc e d as to h ave been embodied in a bill, and even if the late Government had thought it expedient to lay the draught of the bill on tee table on censtitutional grounds, he thought it not desirable to do so, because it was the duty of her Majesty's Government to introduce a bill of so much importance. From the quarter in which the late. Go vernment had officially communicated with the public, viz, through their cinstituents on the hust•ngs— (laughter)—it appeared that they hal for some time before taking office considered the question, and there was no doubt that, during the present session, her Majesty's G ivernment would pre sent t) the bt,,use the bill which the learned Attorney- General had. so fully shadowed forth. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LOCKE KING expressed a hope, as there was ao chance of their having a Reform Bill this year, that the house would support his motion for the introduction of a bill relative to the county franchise and the qualifi cation of members. (Hear, bear.) CHINA. Mr. W. EWART inquired of the Chaecellor of the Ex hequer, whether advantage would be taken of the opportunity afforded by the negotations with the Chinese Government at Pekin, for opening a w a y for British and Indian commerce into Thibet and other countries under the Chinese dominion beyond the Himaleyah Mountains ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that at present this country hal no negotiations unior tunately with Pekin What might happen he could not lay, but the house might rest satisfied that her Majesty's Government would give every assistance towards de veloping British government. THE PASSPORT SYSTENI. lir. MONCIUON 1111LNES put a question to the Government respecting the effect of the New Passport Itegulatiorei in B,lgiure on , subjects, and called the attentio n of the hone() to the incouvenience3 of present iss Steal of the delivery of passport 3 by the Fs-- reign Office. He expressed hte regret that Beljuin had adopted 'le French system. Mr. sEymoutt I l Z (, ERA.LID said that at prc sent, under certain circumstances, passports were granted by the, F, ireig milice without recommendations._ Negotiations were gs,i ng on with the French Govern ment irflative to altering the restriction s in the case of Engli , 4ll workmen and on some other points. Agents won) I be appointed at all the English ports where the traF.ic demanded it, and the French Government would twee agents at ports to which they would arrive. RECORD OF THE NATIONALITY OF PRI SONERS CHARGED AT THE METROPOLI TAN POLICE COURTS. Lord R. CECIL asked the Secretary for the 110010 Department, whether there would bo any objec tion to giving directions that a record should be kept of the nations to which each prisoner charged a...! am Metropolitan Police Court s belon g ed. wrge induced to ask the question because he under. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL 17, 1868. stood crime in this country committed by foreigners was on the increase. Mr. HARDY, under Home Secretary, said he would inquire if such a record could be kept. THE GREEN PARK. Lord ELCHO put a question to the First Commis sioner of Works, relative to the intended alterations in the Green Park, and called attention to the erection of the Suspension-bridge in St. James'-park, and asked the noble lord the member for Tiverton if he was gratified with the "Catenarian Curve" he so eloquently described when the motion for erecting a bridge over the lake was before the house ; and if the suspension bridge presented that line of beauty, and was of that light gossamer form his speech on the above occasion led the house to believe, and if its erection met with his approval. He considered the name of the architect and the noble lord should be inscribed upon it. He contended the house ought to know what works were to be carried out before they sanctioned them. He referred to two circles marked out in the Green park, for, he believed, two shrubberies; but he considered shrubberies were an abomination in the London parks, and ought not to be sanctioned. They were anything but orna mental, and their removal from the parks was a great improvement. Above all places they should not be planted on one of the pleasantest eloping spots of grass in the suburbs of London. Lord J. MANNERS said the proposed shrubberies originated with the late President of the Board of Works, but he had no intention of carrying them out, or of planting shrubberies without the con sent of the house. (Hear, hear.) With respect to Finsbury Park he had little to do with it, but he had c ommunicated with the Metropolitan 'hard of Works, who bad replied that no measures bad been taken for forming a park. The laying out of two roads were now occupying their attention, and until they were carried out the consideration of the formation of Finsbury Park must stand over. Sir B.HALL detailed the circumstances attending the extension of the St. James's-park-bridge. It was sup , Foxed that such a structure was opposed to the public will, but it was a remarkable fact that on the shortest winter day 37,360 persons bad passed over that bridge. When it was determined by the committee to erect a bridge he called on the late Mr. Rendell, who was the architect. He (Sir B. Hall) admitted that the bridge was not such a one as should be erected in a gentleman's park—(a laugh)—but considering the traffio over this public bridge it was necessary to make it substantial. (Hear, and a laugh.) He vindicated the formation of the shrubberies, so far as he had anything to do with them Mr. ELLICE, sen., deprecated the false taste which made our public parks so many landscape gardens. Sir H. VERNEY thought that as the park was useful to the whole of London generally, care should be taken to make it as clear as possible. have allowed the manager to act without control. The committee acquitted these gentlemen of any moral blame, and considered that their errors were errors of judgment, and not of intention. While such was the opinion of the shareholders, what encouragement had the public prose cutor to proceed I But that time had gone, and many of these shareholders might entertain different views now ; but up to the present time no shareholder, or de positor, or party interested in any way, had complained to him. They had done what was more becoming their position—they had organised themselves into an associa tion for the purpose of themselves conducting a searching and complete investigation into the matter. There was an association formed in Glasgow, and he had received a letter from the chairman—not in answer to anything he had written, but a perfectly volunteer communication— stating that arrangements were complete for the com mencement of the inquiry, that funds had been sub scribed to conduct it, and that an accountant had been appointed who would commence his inquiry on the 1.9. h inst. That gentleman added that none of those gentle men knew of anything which would, justify a criminal prosecution • but that if th e y h ear d o f anyt hi ng t h ey would put him (the Lord Advocate) in possession of the facts. It was evident that those gentlemen knew their affairs better than their representative in that house. (Hear, hear.) With that statement, he lift the matter iu the bands of the house. Mr. E. ELLICE contended that farther proceedings should tike place, either in the form of a prosecution, or of a bill for preventing such disasters in future. Thou sands of poor persons ha] been induced to place their money in the bank owing to the supposed respectability of the directors ; the ruin and distress had been immense. It was imperatively necessary that the position of banks should receive greater publicity. Mr. BLACKBURN said that the depositors would lose nothing ; their claims would ultimately be satisfied in full. Not one of the directors had appropriated the money of the bank ; they were all great losers by its failure. He did not know why this bank should be singled out among the many large houses which had failed during the crisis. Mr. J. D. FITZGERA.LD contended that there had been neglect so gross on the part of the directors that it amounted to criminality. He considered inquiry of some kind to be necessary. Mr. MONCRIEFF deprecated prosecutions under. taken in compliance with popular feeling, without any eommunioatiou of the facts to the proper authorities. In the case before them they should wait till the state of the bank was more fully investigated by the ordinary tri bunals. Mr. P. O'BRIEN protested making a question of public morality depend upon the pecuniary result of the affairs of the bank. Mr. BUCHANAN repeated that the directors of the Western Bank had not taken any part of the funds, and were depositors in the bank. He denied the charge of conspiracy made against the directors. They were men who bore the character of the highest honour and re spectability. Mr. ATHERTON admitted that the directors bad stuck by the bank, and had involved themselves and their relatives in the common rain. But their declara tion of a dividend which they were not in a condition to pay was the declaration of a falsehood. He hoped the Lord Advocate would see reason to institute proceedings in the matter. Mr. H. JOHNSTONE thought a searching investi gation necessary after the misery caused by the failure of the bank. Mr. COWAN thought that some remedy should be devised against the recurrence of such disasters, especi ally in respect of the system of accommodation bills. Mr. DRUMMOND denounced the accommodation system, and inveigled against the conduct of the Duke of Argyll and other noble persons, who had passed a public resolution in its favour, After a few words from Mr. FINLAY and Sir E. COLE BROOKE, Sir M. S. STEWART defended the conduct of those noblemen who had passed a resolution in favour of the Scottish system of banking. After Mr. B&aaow had protested against the con tinuance of the debate, Mr. TURNER urged inquiry into the conduct of the bank. The subject then dropped. THE NELSON MONUMENT IN TRAFALGAR SQUARE. _ _ _ Admiral WALCOT r; who had given notice of his intention to call attention to this subject, said that there were times when parsimony on the part of the Govern ment was a cause of national shame and 'reprehension. In the very heart of that great city—the central square through which its population and every visitor from the country and every foreigner had to pass—London had fur yearn presented the humiliating spectacle of a me morial to our greatest naval hero left incomplete. It was unnecessary to remind the hou-e that when he first went to sea the name of Nelson made our navy the pride and hope of this country. On it depended the very xistence of this island and her colonies. With the com mand of the sea they stood or fell. While Europe saw her armies melt away before a general hitherto irresis tible, Nelson transferred one by one the successive fleets of our enemies to the harbours of Portsmouth and Ply mouth. At Copenhagen, as at the Nile, he obtained, in his own empbatic words, "not a victory but a con quest." Toe man who had subjugated a continent de clared that the fates decreed to France the empire of the land, but to England the sovereignty of the sea ; and Talleyrand assigned, as the limits of British supremacy, wherever a frigate could find water to fteat her. The crippled maimed body and indomitable spirit of a Nelson, preserved these shores from the horrors of invasion and by a martyt's death atTraf.tlgar laid open the road to Water loo. He spoke in no spirit of braggarty. He trusted that the sword was sheathed for ever in amity with those once our most formidable enemies and now our firmest allies, and that the mingled blood shed before Seba , topol had consecrated a perpetual friendship be tween us. (Hear, hear.) But he was quite sure that that chivalric nation, which had never been wanting in offer ing tributes of honour to its own fallen worthies, must observe with feelings which he did not care to describe our lamentable display of indifference to a man of whom, if one of themselves, they would have considersd the noblest and most costly monument too unworthy. A very moderate grant would provide the accessories of the Nelson column. A foreign king had been a subscriber to its completion, but he hoped that we might be spared any such significant censures for the future. He trusted that the Government would not allow any further delay to occur before they redressed a signal wrong to the ines timable services rendered by the heroic Nelson, and re moved a standing reproach to English gratitude. (Hear.) He therefore appealed to the house to support him in urging that duty upon their immediate consideration. (Hear, hear ) e m tir t e h c o on h c o u n r , re a n n e d e g in a i M t la h r n e . t observations A o w M h lt a i S d c hejxubpsatrdessfspaeoldlkehennisfran. He had always looked upon it as a great disgrace to England that she should have allowed to remain so long uncompleted the monument to one whose achievements constituted her greatest glory. (Hear, hear.) Before he sat down he wished to call the attention of the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the inconvenience which resulted from the present system of bringing for ward motions in going into committee of supply, and to suggest that arrangements might be entered into by which that inconvenience might be obviated, and a greater economy of the time of the house effected. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—It is not for me to attempt to restrict the privileges of the House of Commons , . I have in the course of my experi ence in Parliament known many attempts to be made with that object, all of which proved to be fruitless; and I feel convinced, air, that the best 'pelm e t for any Government to adopt in reference to the subject is to trust to the goad sense and good t'mper of the house in the conduct of the public business—(hear)—and not to a'tempt to influence its proceedings by effecting any charge in those rules to which we have so long been accustomed, and which we all regard and venerate. I can, however, assure the hon. member who has just spoken that I shad be ready to take into consideration any suggestion which he might think proper to make with respect to this question, while my own impression certainly is, that the wisest plan for one holding the position which I have the honour to occupy is to place full reliance open the kind assistance of the house, and not to endeavour to control its action by artificial regu lations. (Hear.) In reply to the observations of my hon. and gallant friend behind nee, I can only say that I am not surprised he should have brought wider our notice a subject upon which I myself have always felt strongly, and in which he—a distinguished ornament of that gal lant profession to which Nelson belonged— ray natu ra ly be supposed to take even a still deeper interest. I entirely concur with my hon. and gallant friend in the opinion that the name of Nelson is tee glory of this country. as I thick that his monument is its shame. (Cheer 4.) It is, however, a work, of difficulty to remedy all that has taken place in connection with that unfortu nate undertaking. For my own part, I cannot help look ing upon it as a great national mistake that monuments to the memory of British worthies of the cla , s to which Nelson belonged should not be erected until after the lapse of so long a time after death has snatched them from among us, and that even then the erection of those monuments should be intrusted in the bands of private persons. lam aware of no single instance in which in dividual efforts have been successful in the attainment of that object. (Fleets) Private subscriptions labour under the disadvantage of having to be dealt with in their applica'ion by too many persone, and their ma nagement furnishes but too often another instance of that system of double government which is no 1 anger in fashion. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) There ought, in my opinion, to exist upon the part of a nation a stronger sense of the recognition due to the merits of its heroes than I regret to think prevails in this country. (Hear.) A want of public spirit and of public feeling-in the case of, a may like Nelson ca not indeed be hid to our charge, but we certainly are open to the imputation of a want of taste and of an absence of the habit of coming forward at the right time to recognise as we ought to do the servim s of our illustrious men. (Hear.) To the supereminent merits of the distinguished individual whose name my hon. and gallant friend has this evening brought under our notice, I cool I not pre sume even to attempt to do justice. I may, however, remark.of Nelson that he stands alone. The greatest men in eve ry department of human action find their equals. Our illustrious Wellington is compared with our famous Marlborough. But when we come to consider the heroesthe 131 gallant a r eerhiend( a chievements of Nelson we find that h e h as no r i va l. (Hear, hear.) It might be said of him, as Cardinal de fl.etz said of the Marquis of Montrose, that he was man of modern times who remind e d one of t he H t hatear ithear.) disgrace r agree o with this really my hon. and onlyo gf a country that his monument should our fionaontelooangarseinncoet in havea been completed, and, although very flourishing condition, I feel, after the observations of my hon. and gallant friend and the hon gentleman opposite, quite ashamed to throw any difficulty in the way of carrying into effect the object for which this mo tion was introduced. (Hear, hear.) I shall therefore take upon myself the responsibility of looking to the fulfilment of the wishes of my hon. and gallant friend upon the subject of providing for the completion of a monument which is so intimately associated with the glory and the reputation of this country. (Cheers.) CONTINUOUS SERVICE MEN. Sir O. NAPIER moved for a return of the number o. continuous service men who had accepted their dis charge, and then crossed the quarter deck and entered for five years. Sir J. PAKINGTON suggested to the hon. and gal lant admiral that it would be desirable he should not press his motion at present, promising that he would take an early opportunity of communicating with the gallant admiral as to how far it was possibl e t o com ply with the terms of the motion. The motion was then withdrawn. DUMFRIES MILITIA. Mr. B. JOHNSTONE, in calling attention to this subject, took occasion to state that he had heard that 10,000 of the embodied militia were about to be disem bodied, and that he had conzequently felt it his duty to wait upon the Secretary of State for war to represent to him the peculiar position in which the Dumfries regiment of militia was placed. He had also called upon the Under Secretary for War, and mentioned to him that the regiment in question had been ordered last Nov. from Scotland to Aldershot, where it was stationed at the present moment. He had added that agricultural labour ers were hired in Dumfriesshire only twice a-year, viz., in the months of Nov. and March, and that, as a conse quence, the men who composed the regiment had just missed the time when they could hope to be employed. The Secretary for War had informed him that the prin ciple which was to be adopted in the case of the militia was to continue the enlistment of those regiments which had contributed the greatest number of volunteers to the line, and which were, moreover, in the highest state of efficiency. He (Mr. Johnstone) had stated in reply that his regiment required only 20 men to complete its quota, while in point of efficiency it was second to none in the service. He desired to impress upon the house the hard ship it was upon the men to send them back to Scotland at a time when it would be impossible for them to obtain employment, the only periods at which agricultural la bourers were hired in that country being March and vamber. In order to show the:efficiency of the officers of the regiment, he might mention that one of the captains had taken a first-class certificate at Hythe. He thought the circumstances of the case were so peculiar as to justify him bringing them under the notice of the house, and hoped, therefore, he had stated sufficient grounds for the Government to reconsider this case. (Hear.) Gen. PEEL perftetly appreciated the kindly motives that induced the hon. gentleman to bring forward this subject, but he thought that when he hoard the expla nation of the reasons for the step of which he com plained, the hon. gentleman would be convinced of its necessity. The circumstarces under which the militia were called out were these :—ln consequence of the drain of troops from this country to India it was deter mined to embody 25,000 militia. At that time the num ber of rank and file of the regular army in England was 45,998. When he. came jets office he found on the let of April the number of embodied militia amounted to 29,915, and the rank and file of the regular army to 71,581, being an increase of 25,000 men. The only vote which had been taken on account of the militia was one of 100,0001. That sum w, tcl only maintain 10,000 men for six months, and of course, with 30,000 it would only suffice for two months. Unless, therefore, an addi tional vote was taken, it became necessary to reduce the number cf embodied militia regiments. The principle upon which the reduction was effected by his Roy al Highness the Commander-lc-Chief was to dismiss first those regiments which bad not contributed their foil quota of volunteers to the Line, and thus it was that the regiment in question had been selected for disem bodiment. Mr. F. SCOTT confirmed the statements of the hon. member for Canterbury as to the peculiar hardship of discharging the Dumfriesshire Regiment at this time. Had they been disembodied before the 21.ith of last month no objection would have been made. Tne house then went into Committee of Supply, Mr. FITZROY in the chair. SUP PLY. —EXCHEQUER BILLS. A vote of 20 , 9 11,5001. to meet Exchequer-bi Is fulling due was agreed to. NAVY ATES These estimates were then STl pro M ceeded . with. Upon the vote of 70,4391. to defray the expenses of the Admiralty-office, Sir C. NA.PIER said he could not allow the oppor tunity to pass without calling attention to the unsatis factory constitution of the Admiralty-office at present. He thought the business would be better managed if there were three intea.l of six lords. When the right hon. baronet the member for Catliele was at the head c f the navy he e ffected very great changes. He established the offiem of Surveyor of the Navy, Controller of the Victualling Departmen., the heads of the medical de partment. the Accountaet-General's Department, and the Storekeeper-General's Department. That established independent responsibility, and there could be no doubt of the efficiency of the officers who filled those offices, but over each depeetment was placed a Lord of the Ad miralty. That system destroyed responsibility, and introduced all the evils of double government, which were now so much deprecated, The hon. and gallant admiral described the mode of doing business at the Admiralty as in the highest degree unsatiaf Actory, and such as greatly to impede "She public service. What be would propose was that the navy should have the power o' governing itself ; that there should be a Mini ster of Marine, assisted by the vice and rear admirals of Great Britain; that the .Minister should take the advice of the admirals, !sift only act upon it if he saw fit to do so. It was impossible, with the duties divided among six Lords of the Admiralty, that they could be well dis chargecy. They sat is separate tee us, and, as he could testify, often issued contrad,ctery orders, for he had himself, when com a t ding the Channel fleet, and also in the Baltic, received orders Directly opposed to each other. If the right bon. gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty would order a commission, he would find that the entire eystem . wo , one in which a change was loudly demanded. Tnerecwieerrke LatordthseofA.thdemAiradlmtyirawlhtyo present who would probably rise and say h e was all in the wrong, but if a commission was appo i nted he bee li eve would d t n h o e t r e g vwag evidenceno against th ew. He moved that t the vote be reduced by _3,00.0./. S said the const i tution of the Board J. K dof had P A A dmi ll i T ril G ty T°N been def en d ed on former occa sions member for much uchability by the ri g h t hon. gentleman th Cari and the ri g ht gentleman the i and he r egretted that the hon. member for Halifax, that it wa s usneceesary for him, who had been only a few weeks in offi ce, to make any alengthenedt oobffie e c r e r y a h t ai o diven no n e ti ce whatever of the el proposal he meant to make, as till to nee he (Sir J. Pakington) h a d no idea of the nat ure o f that proposal. The hon. and gallant admiral spoke o f th e d ouble govern ment of tthe the nature Admiralty' but he re a ll y was unable to see anything of a double eovernment. [Sir C. Napier—" Toere are double offices."] There were double offices, no doubt, but that was a totally different thing. He entirely agreed in al that could be said as to the great inconvenience that arose from the division of the business of the Admiralty into two establishments ; but it was clearly impossible that any vote of the committee could correct the evil. It arose from the great amount e enough f or th e trans of busines s w hi c h the Admiralty h a d to discharge. The dliatall the i m p ortant ', ranc h es rg was necessary that that tahcrteioe n. f oouf Admiralty rtt hh b ag u t o i b l f d u i ts n hi g en ec w si 9 a :r s kas n na o dn t except the Surveyor-General's department should be located in Somerset house because there was not room enough at the Admiralty for their accommodation. The attention of Parliament had been drawn to the neces sity of constructing new Government offices, and when ever that was done he trusted that the whole of the Ad miralty establishment would be brought under one roof. His experience, although short, enabled him to agree with the gallant admiral in raying that it was impossible to speak too highly of the ability of the gentlemen at the head of the civil departments of the Ad- tnira:ty. Toe business of the Admiralty, however, was of a peculear character. Professional and civil duties were mixed up together, and the public urvice was greatly pro-noted by naval officers of experience and ability acting as junior Lorda of the Admiralty. The gailant admiral proposed that the First Lord should be assisted by a naval council, composed of the Vice• Ad. miral and the Rear-Admiral of England. He would, therefore, es far narrow the board as to eubetitute two lords for the present five junior lords. He was not pre pared to 6 iiiction that proposal. Su far as his short ex perience enabled him to judge, the advice, coulee), and xperienca (if four professional gentlemen was not only i)f great advantage to the F►rst Lon.), but was also of benefit to the public. He could not assent to the motion of the gtillant admiral, and he trusted that he would not press it to a division. Toe amendment was then negatived, and the vote agreed to. On the vote of 118 , 59 2 1 . for Coastguard service an d R o yal Naval C. N Coast A V p o i luatcez thought tha . Sirtdttihicatpresentcondition Laving had t n ila oP Coast guard, he given to him by C ommodore Edon of i ns p e cting the was highly sati s f ac t ory. The principle of a nava l militia as embodied in th e R oyal Naval Coast V o l un t ee rs was a sug gesti on of his own, 111 do so long ago a; 1819 , and re p eated by him half-a-d ozen t i mes since. The p l an had not yet been carried out far enough, fer the term of 28 da y s was not titio sufficient for exer c i s i ng the men . lie thought that the of tPheartt ü b n o l y il t y Coastguard obtained their Tensions too easily, and that it would be better to call upon thou to serve a longer period afloat before they became entitled to' a pension. At present the privileges given to the Coastguard were calculated to cause great discontent among the seamen, who had to serve 20 yea• s afloat before they gA a pension. The great object of the Ad.niralty should be to hold out more encouragement to seamen to enter the Ptoyal navy. Ships were miv four, five, and 'even Aix months before they could be rmenned. Why should not the Government give both a bounty and a kit to the sailor as well as to the so'dier ? The Admiralty ought to have a fleet of teu sail in the Channel all the sum mer, and a Coastguard blockship should go out and cruise with the fleet. . . . Admiral WALCOTT -recommended that a training b r i g should he attached to eaoh Coastguard ship. Sir J. PAKINGTON would remind his hon. and gillant friend that under the regulations of his predecessor et the Admiralty one or two gunboats wera attached to each •f the Coastguard ships. He felt the f.,rce of what the gallant Ad miral (Napier) had said upon the danger that the Coastguard men, however good and valuable in the first instance, would lie become less effi c i en t as t h ey rema i ne d o n shore, unless tom e steps were tak en t o k eep up their seago i n g experience. would not lose sight of this subject. Admiral WALCOTT slid that gunboats not being square rigged were perfectly useless for keeping up the naval krow ledge of the co st volunteers. Their only use was to present a disposition to sea-sickness. (A laugh.) Sir C. WOOD said that when they wanted to increase the number of coastguards it was necessary as an inducement to rehee the number of years' service, but having filled up.the numbers it was no longer neeessaPy to spread their net so widely. The vote was agreed to, and also a vote of 30,615/. for the scientific branch. Upon a vote of 81,6341. for her Majesty's establishments at home, Col. BOLDERO said he wished to put some questions to the late First Lord of the Admiralty. In consequence of his being chairman of the committee on contracts which sat last year, a letter had come to him, dated the 4th of April, 1857, in these terms : " My dear Sir,—After all the assurances which we have re ceived that the Government never give out important orders but by contract, and always accept the lowest tender for stores, you will be surprised to hear that a very large private order for prepared meats, upwards of half a million pounds' weight, have been given to Messrs. So-and-So for the service in China, without any public notice of the requirement, and consequently Messrs. So-and-So have had an unrestricted price. Besides this being an act of injustice to the trade, the public service will be injured by the inferiority of the articles arising out of the haste and the unseasonable period at which they are preserved, particularly should meat form a portion, whereas, if the contract had been thrown open to competition, the Government would have found themselves amply provided with meats in a state ready for immediate shipment, and which had been put up at a proper season in good order. On the contrary, an unfair preference has been given, to the detriment of the public service. This is sad jobbing, and lam not at all surprised at the general expression of discontent wheneverpublic contracts are meationei. (Cries of "Name r) He would show the letter to the late and the present First Lord of the Admiralty, and when he had done so he was sure they would both admit the respectability of the authority, and that it was such as could not for a moment be supposed to give information not founded on fact. The Admiralty inva riably obtained their supplies by open tender, and they ac cepted the lowest tender, provided the contractor was proved to be a man of substance. It was also the system of the East India Company; but not of the army. They had three courses by which to obtain supplies —by open tender, by au office-list,, or by purchasing on the spur of the moment. The questions arising out of this letter which ho wished to ask were— whether the supply referred to was delivered, and, if so, was it received or rejected? What was the nominal value? In what part of the estimates the transaction appeared I And why it was not an open tender ? Sir C. WOOD was afraid he could not answer the questions. The hon. and gallant officer was rather behind time. This was an order given in April, 1857, is reference to preserved meats, which must have been sent out to China 12 months ago. Why, on earth, did not the hon. and gallant member put his question last year ? Col. BOL DERO said the letter was not in his possession. Sir C. WOOD understood that it was received a year ago. It was impossible to remember the details of a transaction which occurred a year ago, or to answer questions on those details, especially when put without notice. (Hear.) With regard to the general statement the hon. and gallant member was entirely mistaken. It was not the invariable rule of the Admiralty to obtain all the supplies which they might re quire by open contract and is invariably to take the lowest tender. The practice which he pursued, and which was pur sued 20 years ago, was, as a general rule, to take the lowest tender, but not to do so if another offer wore more advanta geous for the public service. (Hear.) With regard to pre served meats, it was one of those items on which they were bound to be most careful. It was quite impessib'e to be cer tain that that the meats were properly preserved, A quantity had been sent to the Crimea, and some was bad before it got there, and some was good when it came back. Of meat pre served by the same person sometimes a portion would fail at the end of three months, and a portion not fail at the end of three years. It would be most unwise to throw a contract of that kind open to public competition, as the only security was to go to a person whom they bad reason to trust, and upon whom they could rely, (Hear, leer.) Mr. MILNES said that if the Admiralty went on the plan of taking the lowest tender for preserved meats, they would get such trash as would be of no use whatever. The committee which sat some years ago on this subject came to the conclu sion that it was not always possible to get an entirely good supply, even from the best contractors ; and they recom mended that the Admiralty should not mat e a point of accepting the lowest tender, and that they should, as much as possible, adopt the principle of making their own preserved meats. Sir C. WOOD said that, to show the inequality of the sup ply, he had lately tasted some of Mr. Goldner's preserved meat, the contractor of whose supplies so much complaint had been made, which had been six years in store, and very good it was. Sir F. BARING said, that so far from its being the rule at the Admiralty to accept the lowest tender, when the Arctic expedition was fitted out au order for the preserved most was given to a contractor, in whom confidence was felt, to furnish the quantity required entirely without reference to pric 3. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE thought that sufficient care was not taken as to the accuracy of the ehymicals used and the qua lity of the meat preserved. If the animals preserved were not of first-rate quality, the juices and the fat were lost, and when it came to be eaten it was like so much ropeyarn. The atten tion of the Admiralty might very advantageously be turned to this matter, for if proper chymical anti-scorbutics were ad ministered to the sailors, many more years' work might be got out of them. The vote was then agreed to, as was a vote of 17,2791. to defray the expenses of her Majesty's establishment broad. On the vote of 486,9211. to defray the wages of artificers, (Sic., employed in her Majesty's establishments at house, Sir J. PAKINGTON said t` at, before this vote was dis cussed, it was necessary for him to call attention to an error in the estimates as prepared by the late Government. He did not mean to impute any blame to his predecessors, nor to those who had assisted him in drawing up the estimates ; but, of course, it was of the greatest importance th a t ac counts of this kind should be stated with accuracy. If the items of expenditure printed in the estimate did not corres pond with the real amounts to be defrayed, the result was that both the members of the Government and the House of Commons were misled. The committee would recollect that he objected on Monday night to adopt the number of men intended to be proposed by the late Government for the dock yards—viz., 12,190, but proposed to take a vote of 5/,0001. for hired labour to meet the existing pressure in the dock yards, as that was half of the apparent difference between the establishments of the last and the present years. The com mittee would perceive by the estimates that the proposed establishment of 12,190 men was estimated at 737,751/., while the smaller stablishment of 10,850 was estimated at 617,751/., showing a difference of 10e,000/. It was on that ground that he proposed on Monday to take a vote of 50,000/. to carry on the works in the dockyards for the next six mouths, On Tuesday he requested the Surveyor of the Navy to draw up a programme of those works on which that sum could be most beneficially expended. The answer he received frem that gentleman surprised him very much; for ho sa'd, " You have not got 50,00 11 ; you have only got 20,000/ " Ho asked for an explanation and received an answer to the effect that 30,030/, of the 50,0001, that he had obtained on Monday would be required to make up a deficiency which by acci dent occurred in the estimates for the preceding year. Ho (Sir J. Pakington) believed that it was an accident. He ought to have explained that 10,0001., or thereaeouts, of this defi ciency arose from an increase in the wages paid to the la bourers in the dockyard last year. The remainder of the de ficiency arose from asking for less than the establishment of last year required. That error he believed was owing to the haste with which the estimates were cut down list year. The original estimate was 22,000/. more than the tstimateactually submitted to Parliameut. The vote for Deptford dockyard, for instance, .was 36,517/., but the original estimate was 40,4721. ; for Woolwich dockyard the vote was 75,2711., but the original estimate was 79,771/ , and so en, When the entire estimate for the dockyards was reduced last year, no corresponding reduction was made by the Government in the number of men, He did not mention this matter to cast blame upon any one. It was in fact a business affilig. and the error must be corrected. (dear , hear.) Of course the officer of the Admiralty upon whom the blame might be supposed to rest was the Accountant-General, but he thought it due to that able financier, who was deservedly mentioned in terms of great praise on Monday night, to state that by a most ob jectionable arrangement made in 1850 this particular vote was taken out of his control and placed in that of the Sur veyor of the Navy and the Board of Admiralty. Since that time all that the Accountant-General had to do was to place in the estimates th stun which they thought nee 2ssary to the dockyard establishments. He had no power to subject their proposals to the revision to which ho subjected all the other amounts proposed to be inserted in the estimates. That system led to great inaccuracies and inconveniences— for example, the committee would observe that in the esti mates for one year there was a vote for 319 men in a partici'. lar department, and for 538 men in another ; but there was no entry in either case of the amount of money required for their wages. He could not understand why the particular vote in which the error which he had first raoltioned had occurred should not be inserted like any of the other nary votes in the estimates. (Hear.) He bad now but one course to take, viz., to ask the committee to grant 30,000/, more than he asked for on Monday night, in orde r th a t th e defici ency might be covered. (Hear.) Sir C. WOOD admitted that, to a certain extent, be under stood the statement of the right hon. gentleman, bat he sou' d not quite see the error of which he complained. He did not know on what authority the right hon. gentleman asserted that the late Government made reductions iu the navy esti mates so carelessly as to ask for less money than was necessary to maintain the number of workmen agreed to by the house 411 their proposition. The statement ale) right hon gentle nian was altogether unexpected, and lie was therefore not pre pared with documents to answer it. The inadequacy of the esti mate for the present year must depend upon whether 737,0001. which the late Government proposed to vote, was too little for an establishment of 12,190 men, To a certain extent it would have been impossible, even if the house had agreed to give the w' - role of the additional men requested by Government to obtain the outire number in the course of the first few months of the year, and therefore a sum less than the whole amount of the wages of the whole number of the men for the whole year wok'd not have been au inadequate estimate. He pre sumed, Vrerefore, that the right hon. baronet intended to im pugn not the estimate f,r the past 12 mouths, but that for the ensuing year. The statement of the sum voted last year was perfectly true. There might have been an excess of ex penditure for wages in the dockyards ; he did not know whe ther the fact was se or not ; but there could be no doubt that tire sum voted was 637,000/. The late Government were, therefore, bound to put that sum in the estimates, and hence the only question could be whether the sum proposed to be voted for tire present year was adequate for the establishment which could by possibility be obtained within the year. He understood the right hon. baronet to say that 737,0001. would not pay the wages of 12,190 men, Sir J. PAKINGTON—I have not said anything of the kind. Sir C. WOOD could not see, then, where the alleged inac curacy lay. It cou ld not be in the es imate of lastyear be cause the late G overnment were bound to state the actual sum voted, and then they proposed to add 100 000/ for the present year, i n order to provide for as'many, ni ad;ll ° - t . onal men as the surveyor might think right, thus raising the estimate for wee - es to the amount of 737,0001 The object of that increase was to get rid of the extra payments for hired lebourers Tire right iron, baronet had charged him with do parting fi om the recommendation of the committee appoint( d on the motion of Lord Seymour. Now, the recommendation of that committee was that, if an increase were necessary, it should be done by an addition to the permanent es:a blis merit and not by the employment of extra men. During the Russian war, finding hired labour was the most avail able means of iicreasing the work done in the dock yards, the late Government had recourse to it ; but he repeated now what ire state I then, that a worse system could H not be adopted d ur i ng peace. e believed that 737,000/. was an adequate sum for paying the establishment for the present year, and therefore, unless the right hon. baronet told him that those persons who were answerable for the details had miscalculated the amount of wages necessary for the payment of 12,190 men, he could not admit that there eves any inaccuracy in the estimates. Sir J. PAKINGTON did not impugn tire estimate for the present year. What he stated Ails that the estimate for last year, as it appeared iu the papers before the committee, was incorrect. The Government last year took 22,0001. off their estim to, but made no reduction in the e-tablishment, and the result was that instead of having 100,000/, for extra labour iu the present year he bad only in round number's 70,0001. Sir F. BARING said that gentlemen in office possessed peculiar advantages when commenting upon the conduct of their predecessors. The Fist Lord of the Admiralty had been kind enough to inform the house that certain alterations of which he did not approve were made in 1850 ; but, fail ing in that courtesy which was usually shown by one official man to another, he had not given the slightest notice of his intention to make that statement to anybody who was con nected with the Admiralty at that time. Ho did not know whether the right hon. baronet had obtained his information from Mr. Bromley, but that gentleman was not at the Admi ralty when the alteration in question was made; and although the change itself might appear wrong to the right hon. Bart., who had been only a short time in office, the committee should know that it was effected by a Most intelligent officer who was connected with the Admiralty in 1850. For his own part he was still of opinion that the Surveyor of the Navy was better able to frame an estimate than the accountant-Gene ral, who merely kept the accounts - and at all events, when the right hon. baronet next travelled out of his way to attack the conduct of his predecessor in 1850, he would take it as an act of justice if he would have the kindness to give him some previous notice of his intention. (Hear, hear.) He confessed that he could not understand the explanatory statement of the right hon. baronet. The result of it, how ever, was the very uncomfortable one that the house would have to vote an additional sum of 30,0001. He might be per mitted to say that that discrepancy which the right hon. baronet had pointed out was not so remarkable or uncommon as he seemed to imagine. When an establishment was re duced, it did not follow that the reduction in the expense would be equal to the reduction in the number of the men. Sir J. PAKINGTON could not too strongly express his re gret at finding that most unconsciously and unintentionally he had given offence to the right hon. baronet opposite. The best proof he could give of the innocence of his intention was that at the moment he spoke he did not recollect that the right hon. baronet was the First Lord of the Admiralty in 1850. (A laugh.) If he had recollected that circumstance he might have given him notice, but still he was not quite certain that he would have done so, inasmuch as he did not attack the right hon. baronet or anybody else. (Hear, hear.) He simply stated a fact which the right hoe. baronet had now confirmed, that in 1850 a change was made with respect to the management of these votes. The right hon. baronet thought the alteration a good one; but that it was bad the committee had a practical proof in the errors which had crept into the estimates. (Hear, hear.) His own opinion was, that those errors would not have occarred if the votes had been brought under the supervision of the Accountant- General. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. baronet had stated that 30,0001. was wanted to cover a deficiency of last year. Thera was a deficiency to that amount to be covered, but he und-rstood it was partly met by a surplus of 20,0001. in another vote, and therefore no larger sum than 10,0001. would have to be provided in some other way. (Hear.) Sir F. BARING said that such an arrangement might have been as that referred to by the right hon. gentleman, but he did not recollect it, Sir C. WOOD said that if there were a mistake it was quite of the right hon. gentleman's own makins. (Hear, and a laugh.) The right hon. gentleman said that he (Sir C. Wood) improperly reduced the estimate last year without regard to the establishment to be maintained, and that tho estimate was below the requisite amount to the extent of 22,0001. Now, he found that she whole sum voted for the year 1855-56—the last year of the war —was 864,000/. That sum included 250,000/. for additional wages for extra work to be performed by task and job, and for the pay of hired men. Deducting 250,000/. from 864,000/., there remained 614,0001. as the sum required for the regular est tblishment. For the next year the sum voted was 839,000/., which included 225,000/. for extra work by task and job, and for the pay of hired men. Taking 225,000/. from 839,000/., there remained 614,000/. as the sum due for wages for the establishment. Now, the sum voted last year was 637,000/., which exceeded the sum shown on the two preceding esti mates as due to the establishment by 23,000/. ; being 1000 S more than the sum which the righa hon. gen tleman said he (Sir C. Wood) had improperly dealt with. Tee right hon. gentleman had made something like a charge that the estimates had been misstated, but all that was done was according to practice to put down tke esti mates for the present year the vote of last year, and he did not understand that the right hon. gentleman denied that the estimate for the present year was adequate for the men proposed to be employed. Therefore, the vote of last year was correctly stated, and the estimate for the present year was also correct in reference to the services to be performed. (Hear, hear.) When an end was put to task-work 23,000/. were provided for any occasional labour that might be re quired in the course of the year, and therefore the attack made by the right hon. gentleman was totally unjustifiable. (Hear, hear.) The fact was obvious. The right hon. gentle man was determined to make a reduction from what had been proposed, and somehow or other took off 5 ',NSW., not knowing why or wherefore, and in order to justify himself made an attack against him (Sir C. Wood). (" Hear," and cries of " Oh !") Sir J. PAKINGTON could not too strongly express his regret at the tone in which the right hon. gentleman had spoken. (Hear, hear.) As a matter of business he could not avoid mentioning the circumstance, and now the right hon. gentleman charged him with making an utterly un justifiable attack. He did not like these criminations aid recriminations, and had said that at first he thought it was an accidental error ; but let him tell the right hon. gentle. man, since ho held such language, that he had got the right hon. gentleman's letters in his haul , though he did not wish to make use of them. He had got the old estimate and the new estimate, and the changes—two changes—of the figures in rod ink. He had got, too, the right hon. gentle man's lettere directing those changes. (Hear, heir.) The fact was incontrovertible that the Government I,st year prepared an estimate for 10,850 men, and at the last moment knocked off 23,000!., without making a corresponding reduc tion in the e,tablishment. The result was that the estimate presented to the house gave an erroneous view of the expendi ture in last year. He had made no charge against the right hon. gentleman, supposing that the error arose from the pre cipitation with which the estimates were produced last year, and he regretted the tone adopted by the right hon. gentle man. (Hear, hear.) Sir C. WOOD was sorry if he had said anything to annoy the right hon. gentleman, but he thought an attack had been made on him. He was speaking to a great disad• vantage, because he could not refer to official documents and to letEeis, which, under ordinary circumstances, would be in his possession. He proposed last year an establishment of , •10,850 men, for which 614,000/. were taken as an adequate p tyment ' • and he also proposed a sufficient sum, as he b 3lieved, beyond that to provide for hired artificers and extra labour, because it was not till the present year he proposed to put the whole on the establishment. In the first estimate prepared last year a lower sum was contemplated than was ultimately taken, but he did not think it fair that an inten tion not carried into effect should be referred to. (Hear, hear.) In his belief 614,000/, formed an adequate sum for the wages of 10,850 men, though at one time he thought of taking a larger sum. Sir F. SMITH referred to the amount of wages given in the dockyard, and observed that the men were very much under paid. The expense of house rent in such places as Chatham, Portsmouth, and Devonport was very high, and it could not be expected that men in the receipt of 13s. 6d a-week, who had to pay 3s. or 3s. 6d. a-week for rent, could support their wives and families adequately upon the remaining 10s. a week. The consequence was, that these underpaid labourers, although honest, could nob be zealous in the discharge of their duties, but they husbanded their energies during the day, in order that by working in the evenings they might make some addition to their miserable wages. He was in formed that bricklayers in London earned fr om 3s. to 3s. 6d, a-day, while the artisans in the dockyard boroughs (a laugh) only received 2s. 2cl. a.day. He hoped the First Lord of the Admiralty would direct his attention to this subject. Mr. P. W. MARTIN observed that workmen in private ship-building yards received ss. or ss. 6d. a-day, and he thought it was a mistaken economy to give so low a rate of wages to the artisans on the public establish ments. It was the opinion of Mr. Stephenson, Sir S. Poto, and ether competent authorities, that men employed in such labour as was performed in the dockyards ought to have a good meal of meat daily, but many a time during his canvass (laughter) —he found the working. men employed in the dockyard making their dinner on bread, cheese, and potatoes. He believed that the saving effected by underpaying these labourers was fully counterbalanced by the inefficiency of their work. He also complained that while those civil servants who were paid by the year had been relieved from the superannuation tax, the shipwrights, blacksmiths, and joiners, who received weekly wages were subjected to a superannuation tax of 20 per cent. Mr. W. WILLIAMS thought the present First Lord of the Admiralty and the two right hon. gentlemen who formerly held that office had occupied the time of the house very un necessarily about a small amount of 30,000/., for he found that some of these estimates were formed upon mere guesses, and under one head in a former year 516,000/, more than was voted by the house according to the estimate had been ex pended, while under another head 300,0001. less than was votel by the house had been disbursed. Since the termina tion of the French war not less than 77,000,090/. had been expended upon our navy. What had become of it ! It bad been spent, to a great extent, upon rubbish, and also in waste and jobbery. There was no remedy for this state of things except the adoption of the American system, under which an account was given each session of the manner in which the money voted during the preceding year had been expended. Mr. WHITE said that, notwithstanding the placid, he might almost say contemptuous, Indifference with which the house received t he representations made by h an. members who repre sented ports at which there were dockyards, he could not refrain from saying a few words in support of the claim to con. sideration which had been advanced on the part of the dockyard labourers. There was now no dockyard at the borough for which ho sat, but he had visited that of the neighbouring borough of Devonport, which had the advantage of being represented by the late Secretary of the Treasury. He would not say how gratified the cies tors of that borough were at having for their repreieutative a gentleman 'so nearly connected with the Treasury, or what he hal promised them ; but he was informed that, while one class of artisans had had their wages advanced, another class who did not generally lived in that locality had had theirs diminished. Labourers who lived in Plymouth Lad had their wages reduced 2e, per week, while the pay of ropemakers, sailmakers, and some other classes bad been advanced 3s. Sir J. PAKINGTON denied that any feeling of contemp tuous Ind fference existed in that house towards the repre sentatives of the working classes. Against any such con struction he strenuously protested. It was most essential for the general prosperity of the country that the working classes should be contented and happy ; and when any hon member brought forward facts to show that they were treated with injustice, it was the duty of that house to pay every atten tion to his s tatement. He wa quite prepared to admit tl 0 possibility that the wages of labour might be unduly de pressed by coin etition. With regard to the wages paid in the dockyards ho could only say that ho looked upon that subject as one well w or thy o f a ttention—(hear)— a h n e d course he visited the dockya r d s , as ho proposed to do in of the summer, he should investigate the whole twcircum stances. (Hear, hear.) should WILSON never fee said, l it t t o h h e a seed duty y r t a se urge he was thatn s concerneden the Execu tive i upon in their y increase of expenditure ti judgment was necessary. k r d m e t n o a t t h e alterations Devonport, made last year h et beyond tw.eogia. in the wages ol V t i cases, but his right lion, friend them. and referred to by the hon. memtebnedr,(lsietrwcahsanroletsawvvaelesitio)fwtlatottsde probably be able to exp l a in The inference which the hon. member apparentlytto be hseopuote.ehttty well od e r reh fi n -o t i t n ed th h e y fa t c h t e s he had mentioned ought c ourse which he (Mr. Wilson) had pursuedlast year in o pposing the repeal of the superannua ion allowance to abate ments.•the That course was naturally in opposition feelings of a large number of his constituents By the bill of the noble lord (Naas) the wages of our most highly paid d a te immediately t o T t h h i e s e w x a t s e n t of 70,0001 , and ultimately to ease l d oO, im oo m o. e / public servants were incl . the face of the fact that hundreds of men in Government e mpley were drag ing out a miserable existence upon 13s. a-week, oat of which he knew they had to pay ss. or 6s. per week for their lodgings in consequence of the high rents in the towns wh.ere they were compelled to reside. (Hear.) This was the class of persons to whom he had referred last year as being most underpaid and as most demanding the at tention of the Government, and who, while those be had men tioned had received a lavish grant of 70,00 W. a year, had net their pay increased by one farthing. (Hear, hear.) In plead ing the can-c of these men, the representatives of dockyard towns were pleading the cause of non-voters against those who possessed the suffrage, and they could not therefore be accused of interested motives, Sir J. ELPHINSTONE said, t' o Government possessed the larger part of the property in the town which he represented (Portsmouth), and the dockyard labourers there were in a wretched condition. It would be a disgrace to any country gentleman if his labourers were in no better state. He was glad to hear that the First Lord of the Admiralty meant to take these circumstances into consideration. He did net be- Here that many labourers could be got to work in pr . :rate dockyards for 13s. per week. . Mr. J. EWART suggested that many of these complaints would be obviated if some of the work now done in the Go. vernment dockyards were left to private enterprise, by whicb it would be done a great deal better and cheaper. Sir F. BARING said that a great deal of canvassing was now going on relative to the wages of the dockyard labourers, and expectations were excited on the part of these poor men which were not likely to be realised. He, therefore, en treated the Government, if they had not already made up th, it minds on this subject, to do so as soon as possible, la order that the agitatiun which now existed might be net at rest. With regard to the question of superannuation, top gether with the deductions to which the civil service was sub jected, the committee had recommended that it should b. referred to two impartial actuaries. If the actuaries LA made their report, perhaps the Government would say wise. ther they had any objection to lay it on the table. General CO DRINGTON said, there was a great difference between the wages paid in the arsenal at Woolwich and those paid in the dockyard. The dockyard received the inferior labourers, and a constant change of hands took place, which was detrimental to the proper exeeution of the work.. Mr. WEGUELIN observed, that in the payment of salaries to the civil service the remuneration ought strictly to corres pond with the amount and quality of the work done. They ought not to complicate the question by haying tl calculate what deduction should be made on account of the superan nuation pension. Sir C. WOOD said, that the late Government had regulated the wages they paid according to the principle of supply and demand. They had raised the rate of pay of that class of arti ficers whose services they could not secure at the previous se Ile of remuneration. With regard to the wages of the labourers, the rate was the same in all the Government dock. yards, and it would be difficult to make it otherwise ; whereas the wages paid by private employers in the various neigh. bourhoods often differed considerably. If varying rates .wero adopted by the Government they would create a good deal of heartburning. 'At Plymouth the wages of the established labourers who were not permanently employed, and who could come and go whenever they pleased, had not been in creased. The opinion that he had previously expressed as to the estimate for wages, dye. was confirmed by th e memoran dum which the First Lord Of the Admiralty had handed hint for perusal. The vete was then agreed to. ARMY ESTIMATES. General PEEL, in rising to move that a sum not exceeding 2,454,097/ bo granted to her Majesty to defray the expenses for pay and a lowauces to her Majesty's land forces abroad, said that if the committee would refer to page 2 of the estimates, containing the abstract of those estimates, it would find that they were divided into six parts. He should, however, submit to the consideration of the committee upon that occasion only that portion of the esti mates which related to the effective department of the army. It was desirable to obtain the votes for that department pre vious to the introduction of the Budget, and he trusted, therefore, that the committee would excuse him if he re• frained front entering into any detailed observations upon the subject of the various items contained in the estimates. If the committee were to enter upon that occasion into a general discussion of that nature he was afraid that not only would no progress be made in taking the votes, but that no satisfactory decision with respect to the several items of which they were composed could be arrived at. (Hear, hear.) It was customary in moving the estin.ates to institute a com parison between their present amount and that of the precede ing year, in order that the house might be afforded an oppor tunity of forming an opinion in reference to the expediency of any changes in the amount which might be proposed. He bad simply to sta e upon that point that while the difference in the gross amount of the army estimates for this and the preceding year was but slight, there was a considerable varia tion of some of the items for the two periods —a variation the reasons of which he should explain when he brought forward these estimates more in detail. There was, however, but one great comparison to be drawn in such cases —namely, that between the proposed amount of expenditure and the abso lute wants of the service. (Hear.) The proper system to adopt was to combine together, as far as possible, economy and efficiency, and he felt bound in justice to the noble lord who had precede I him in office to say that he appeared to have framed his estimates upon the combination of those two important principles. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, so thoroughly had that pol'cy been carried out by the noble lord that when he (Gen. Peel) had examined the estimates with view of dis covering what reductions in them might be effected, he had came to the conclnsion that he would be justified in diminishing them only by a sum of 10,000/. by poetpon jug some votes which might be brought forward upon a future occasion, shoold the exigencies of the service require it, but the postponement of which would be productive of no public inconvenience. He should upon that occasion parti cularise only one vote in the estimates, and that was a sum of 10,0001. in order to secure 100 68-p,mndei sto Malta. It would be recollected that when the estimates bad been framed last year a great reduction had unfortunately been made in the army ; but, while he was no advocate for keeping up a large army, circumstances over which he In dno control ren dered it imperative upon us to keep our army at a certain numerical standard. He trusted the house would excuse him from entering further into detail, and he begged to con elude by placing the vote which he had risen to move in the chairman's hands. (Hear, hear.) Colonel VIVIAN hoped that when the right hon. and gal lant-general entered into the general statement to which he had adverted, he would be prepared to give to the committee some explanation in reference to the reduction which he had made in the votes for the purchase of land for the erection of new barracks at Windsor. ueral PEEL said the Government had come to the con. elusion that no possible inconvenience could result from the postponement of the purchase to which the hon. and gallant member alluded. The vote was then agreed to, as was also a vote of 409,6511. for miscellaneous charges in connection with the land forces at home and abroad. A vote of 150,0001. to defray the expenses of the embodied militia having been put, Colonel BOLDERO complained of the inconvenience which resulted from placing a large number of items under one ge neral bead in the estimates. The vote for the militia this year was general, and did not, as usual, give the various stunts charged for the different branches. Captain VIVIAN wished to know whether there was to be any general statement of the reasons for the reductions which had been made in the estimate framed by the late Govern• went. General PEEL said he should explain tke reasons for the reduction upon each vote as it was taken. The vote was then agreed to, as was also one f or 58 , 0001. to complete the sum necessaryto defray the cost of the vo lunteerforces in Great Britain. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the house re• LOAN SOCIETIES BILL. The bill passed through committee. The house adjourned at a quarter-past 12, until Itionda: A DVERTIORMENT.j— Elle Recent Changes of Tempera ture.—lt is very important that such changes as have recently taken place in the temperature of the atroos• phere should not be treated with indifference. The pub lic should be watchful of the effects which they frequently have on the body. The skin aad the nervous systems stiffer severely—Erysipelas,.blotches, boils, rheumatism, colds, sore throats, and the many other complaints of this nature being generated through the above cause. When symptoms of the above diseases show themselves they should be promptly!attended to. Holloway's pills and ointment are wonderful remedies, and eradicate the above attacks, immediately they show themselves.— Sold by all medicine vendors throughout the world, and at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, London. A DVE aTISEMENT. I— SIGHT AND HEARING SPECTACLES POWERFUL TELESCOPES OPERA, RACE, AND PERSPECTIVE GLASSES. —S. and B. Solomons, opticians, 39, Albemarle street, Piccadilly. Observe—opposite the York Hotel, W. By her Majesty's Royal Letters Patent for valuable and ex traordinary improvements in the most poWerful and brilliant Telescopes, Camp, Race-course, Opera, and Perspective Glasses, to know the distances. These Telescopes possess such extraordinary power that some, three and a-half inches, with an extra eye-piece will show distinctly Jupiter's moons, Saturn's ring, and the double stars ; with the same telescope can be seen a person's countenance three-and-a-half miles distant and an object from 16 to 20 miles. For the waist coat-pocket, and are of larger, and all sizes, withincreasing powers accordingly, The Royal Exhibition, 1851. —A valu able, newly-invented, very small, powerful, Waistcoat-pocket Glass, the size of a walnut, by which a person can be seen and known one and a-half mile distant. They answer every pur. pose on the Race-course and at the Opera-houses. Country - scenery and ships are clearly seen at 12 to 14 miles. They are invaluable for shooting, deer-stalking, yachting, to sportsmen, gentlemen, gamekeepers, and tourists. Opera. Camp, Perspective, and p o p r e servingwß er c . e-co T u h r e s s e pg G eic. l et a a a s a te l e ea s d, vLwaeninttashegwseodnoderftd that vision impaired becomesefripvthrsede fgprrooewma t e e r s s t * h t s inventionn s v a p l u re b n l e t is, served and strengthened and very aged persons are enabled to employ their sight at the most minute occupation —can see - with those lenses of a much less magnifying power—and they do not require the frequent changes to the dan. gerotis effects of further powerful assistance. Persons can be suited at the most remote part of the world by send. ing one of the glasses out at their spectacles in a letter, and • stating the dist 'nee from the eye they can read small print with it, and those who have not made use of spectacles by stating their age. Deafness.—New Discovery.—The Oil/pule Vibrator, an extraordinarily powerful, small, newly-invented instrument for deafness, entirely different from all others, surpassing anything of the kind that h as b een, or prob ably can be, produced. Being of the same colour as the skin, Is not perceptible. It enables d ea f persons ' to hear distin c t ly at church and at public assemblies ; the unpleasant sensation et singing noises in the ears is entirely remo ve d , an d it anima all the assistance ,that possibly could be desired.-39. Albs. marle-street, Piccadilly—Opposite the York tIotel„ W. THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA. Mr. COLLIER said he understood that the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed to move resolutions on Vie subject of the Government of India on Monday week. It was most important that members should have an op portunity of considering these resolutions before the time for discussing them arrived. He wished therefore to a. k the right hon. gentleman on what day th• resolutions would be laid on the table of the house The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The resolutions will certainly be laid on the table on Monday next. I hope that they will be in the hands of members on that day. THE ABEONA, In answer to Mr. LINDSAY, General PEEL said that the Abeona sailed from Gravesend a short while since, with 750 men on board. After a few days small-pox broke out on board. Upon this occurring the ship put back, and the men who were attacked by the disease were landed, and the vessel then proceeded on her way, orders, however, being given for her to call at Kingstown, that she might there be inspected. After she again started on her voyage two more men were attacked by the small-pox. Beyond these two, however, the disease had not spread, and he had received a telegram from Ireland from the inspector general certifying that the troops on board this vessel were now in good health, and quite fit to eroceed to sea. THE ARMY ESTIMATES. In answer to Mr. P. O'BRIEN, General PEEL said he did not propose to make any general statement as to the army estimates that evening, but merely to take one vote for pay, kc., for the men already voted. Ttie motion for adjournment to Monday was then agreed to. THE WESTERN BANK OF SCOTLAND. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Mr. BRADY rose to call attention to the case of the Western Bank of Scotland—a case which, to his wonder, had not yet been brought before the house. This back was established twenty-five years ago with a capital of 1.500,0001. It soor, however, had at its command 5 000,000/ sterling, and, in addition, circulated its notes to the extent of 327,0001. From the commencement the bank went upon wrung principles, and its subsequent career was so managed that, sooner or later, its fall was certain to occur. He had received from a trustworthy source a document which enabled Ihim to state some of the chief charges against the directors of this bank. In the first place, they omitted to Gall together the proprie tors, as they should have done, when a certain propor tion of their capital was lost. Not only did they fail in doing this, but they declared a dividend of 94 per cent., whereby many were induced to take shares in the bank . when it was entirely insolvent. Besides this they car ried on bad debts in their books as available assets, and they did this even in cases where they had theme ,veti been obliged to insure the lives of debtors in order to have a chance of saving anything. They had also sent 600,000/. to America—against the terms of their char ter—to be applied in discounting bills. Every penny of this sum was now lost. In the same way they advanced money recklessly at home. A firm of Macdonald and Co.; who were known to be men possessed of little or nothing, had, in a few month., contrived to fail for 383,0001., of which sum 200,0001. was due to the Western Bank. These were the two cases with whick he should trouble the house. There were many more, but he thought these two sufficient for the illustration of the subject. It might be said that the manager had been placed ilea position of such unlimited control against the will of the directors, but that was in his (Kr. Brady',) opinion, no excuse. He had entire control over the funds of the bank, and next to him the directors were respon sible for his actions. He trusted that these parties would be brought before the bar of public opinion to account f ere the de: traction they had brought on hundreds of fa milies. He had some tins before asked whether it was the intention of Government to take any steps in the matter, when the learned lord opposite informed them he had not before him any evidence upon which he could proceed. Since then he (Mr. Brady) bad been informed that at the time the learned lord was giving his answer he was actually the legal adviser of the directors of the Western Bank. (Hear, hear.) He did not mean to in sinuate that the learned lord could in the slightest de gree have been influenced by Buell a circumstance ; in deed, he did not know of his own knowledge if it were true ; but, if the learned lord was the legal advi•er of the directors, he certainly w as no t i n a po s itio n t o g i ve the answer he (Mr. Brady) had quoted. (Hear, hear.) He trusted they should hear from the learned lord that, if any foundation for criminal proceediugs could be ob tained, they would without delay be taken by the Go vernment. In conclusion, he begged to state that in bringing this subject forward he had been actuated solely by public motives, and that he left it with the Idlest confidence in the hands of the Government. 'fee LORD-ADVOCATE said he could assure 6e house that although rising immediat ly after the hon. member for Leitrim, he had no intention of answe ring the speech of that hon. member. He (the Lord-Advo cate) was not there for the purpose of defending the principle upon which the Western Bask of Scotland bad been established, or the conduct of the directors of that institution. Neither was he there to offer any opinion as to the personal culpability of the directors. Oa that subject he had given no opinion : but he was glad of the opportunity of removing an erroneous im pression that prevailed in certain quarters out of doors, and which seemed to influence some hon. members with in. With regard to himself personally, the charge alluded to by the hon. member for Leitrim seemed hardly to require even a passing observation ; but he might mention that at the time the bank stopped payment and was winding up, he was in his professional capacity fre quently consulted by the directors, the shareholders, the liquidators, the depositors, and the creditors of that in stitution. (Hear, hear.) All parties, in short, had con sulted him in turn, but the matter to which he wished then to refer cencernel his office as public pros enter in Scotland. The hon. member fer Leitrim had ou a previous occa.ion asked him (the Lord-Advocate) whether criminal proceedingswonld beinst tuted.—hisanswer in substance was, that he had not before him any information that would justify a prosecution. He begged now t 3 repeat that statement, and to add that such was his position down to the present moment. It did appear strange to him that the parties who had given the hon. member the information which justified him in using such .strong language as that he bad indulged in, should nut have thought fit to lay their information before the public authorities. It seemed that a great misapprehension existed as to the nature of the office which he had the honour to hold. A public prosecutor was not a minister of police. It was not any part of the business of a public prosecutor to bunt out crime. On the contrary, he had always understood that the true theory of the Lord Ad vocate's function was that that officer should never pro secute except on the complaint of an injured party, with certain very important exceptions it was true, but as a general rule a prosecution shoul I not be set on foot ex cept by the complaint of the injured party. And the rule was applicable in the case of commerci a l frauds. The whole of the disclosures in the case of the Royal British Bank were made in the Bankruptcy Court, and came u ,der the notice of the Attorney-General in that way, and he bad no alternative but to proceed against the directors. But in the case s.f the Western Bank o f nly l o n n h e th p a ro t ceed e in i f ir at y t i h: j at wSoiostals, r.cased there o f cas di-posed ' to talc% he was the direetufs sequestration. been front all res the te I ' : o n laeg manager, blame wa s upon examined, himself, an d relieving shareholders, and at all of them the many meetings of Besides this, there had been tons had been to charge the directors with very culpable negligence of duty in not controlling the manage r ; but there vas nothing suegested at any of them as the pro-. duct en of a criminal prosecution. As early as December last there was a committee meeting of the bank at Glas gow for the purpose of appointing a committee of inves tigation. That committee reported to a subsequent meeting. It va , a very angry and excited meeting, but o criminal charge w er a ew s ph m oro a tl d ,e o sot a ta g t a me i d n r s t. t hTa t at h y e tiho d re i T r s e ctor s. To to ° nr a ni tu t i h t a te t e du in rin th g e t i h r during th e career o f M r. Smith, his of neglectingdirectors of th ethe dutiesbank of theirwer were trustverymuchd h to at blame in peered, with out su ff ic i ent i nquiry or examinatio e n,atpo- BIRTHS. CARNWATEI —On the 12th inst., at Heidelberg, the Coun tess of Carnwath, of a son and heir. MILTON—On the 14th inst., at 6, Sutherland-place, West bourne-grove, Mrs. John Milton, of a daughter. ST. JOHN MILDMAY—On the 14th inst., at Shawford Lodge, Putnepheath, Mrs. Edmond H. St. John Mild • may, of a son. MARRIAGES. HILL —CuuzoN—On the 15th inst., at Kedleston, Derby shire, Lord A. Edwin Hill, M.P., to the H on . M ar y Cathay ine, y oungest daughter of the late Hon. and Rev. Alfred Curzon, and sister of Lord Scarsdale. PEACOCKE—GREVILLE—On the 15th inst., at St. Paul's, Knightsbrid ge , G . M. W. ?eacocke, Esq-, to Augusta , youngest daughter of Algernon Greville, Esq. DEATHS. GROVE —Oa the 14th inst. at his seat, F erne, Wil tsh i re, John Grove, Esq., aged ' 73. JEllgox—O e th e 15th inst., nt 27, Binfield-road, Stock well, Wm. T. M. Jobson, Esq., aged 56. PAsLEY.On the 15th inst., at 71 Onslow-square, Bromp. ton, J o h n Pasley, Esq., formerly a Captain in her Ma jesty's Army aged 62. RowLAND —On the 11th inst., at Coulsdon, near Croydon, Surrey, Henry Rowland, Esq , aged 65. SKYNNER —On the 13th inst., the Rev. William Skynner, Rector of Bradley, Derbyshire, and of Cuxwold, Lin colnshire, and Vicar of Rushden, county of Hertford, aged 3'. TOVEY—On the 15th inst., at Cliftonvillo, Hove, Sussex, Colonel George Tovey, aged 71. LONDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy. in the county of Alill4leaez, Saturday, April 17, 1858. . ~, ke4 ";