The Sun. — London, England, 1829-02-25 00:00:00

the reinovai - of all civil disabilit zrLcount of religious opinions. Lord BEXLEY—Do they ask for all disabilities to bk.-. reanoved ? Lord DE DUNSTANVILLE—Tesire that all re ligious ttFts of every kind mkt• L•e'lone away with.—Peti- Con laid on the table. The Earl of FAZAiDI7TH said, the Noble Lord had presented a petition front Penzance, in favour of the Roman Catholic Claims, signed by 150 individuals—(Lord De llonstans-ilte—By 199 persons)—and he now roan to !ay i• fare their Lordships a petition from that town and its s • ,ikkity, signed by upwards of :36t) persons, against grant r{ any further concessions. He begged leave to state, that 'tits petition was not, perhaps, so numerously sigzred, Con sidering the population of the town and neighbourlwod, as some which he had presented, and some which he was about to present, to their Lordships. The reason of this awns. because the neigldrourhood, as his Noble Friend knew, was filled with Dis<tenters, who were notoriously •in favour rtf concessierss. Being on his legs, he wished to say a word or two on the petition which his Noble Friend had 'resented yesterd ty, and which was by no means so no metsrusly signed. That petition included the hundred of Lust Lone, and a considerable part of another hundred. Now he had a petition signed by neatly 1,000 r*. , spectable names, which emanated from a very !mall portion of tt Lone, called the middle div;sir;ll. His Noble Friend :yesterday observed, that a considerable portion of the land .ed property of Cornwall was in favour of the Claims of the Roman Catheli•cs. Undoubtedly his Noble Friend was Yorro.r, in tlot assertion ; but, at the same time, he rcesuld 'declare, ills firm belief, that a very great majority of `the lamTholders was against those claims. With respect to 'he sstiddle classes of persons, he had no hesitation its saving %MA they were generally opposed to ‘centste,sion, and he be btvetl his Noble F head couhl not deny that they would pre ",ent an overwhelming majority against any such nieasute. If Lis Notde Friend thought otherwise, he had nothing to do but sin present tie petitions of those who wished to address their I..ordships Its favour of the Roman Catholic Claims. As ,Yet, he believed, those who had so petitioned did not ex 'mei 7350 person=. lie could, oft the other hand, assure Lis Noble Friend, that, without his moving at all on the 'subject, for he had studiously avoided doing so—without having got up one sist;de petition, having been only in. vs lied to attend rte meeting, which was convened two days before it took place—without having been at all-con verted ise 40ating the question,—still he could state that petit/tans, signed by no less than 8,000 of the inhabitants : ;,,r 'Cornwall, were prepared. He believed, if the Noble Duke were determined to carry this measure through, that lie would do so in the face of an overwhelming majority of the Protestant church and the Protestant people of Eng land. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord concluded by pre senting a petition against the Catholi: claims from the town and neighbourhood of Penzance, in Cornwall, signed by 360 of the inhabitants. The petitian, an the motion of the Noble Loid, teas read at length by the Lord DE DUISSTANVILLE was as mach attached to the Protestant church as the petitioners or the Noble Lord ; but 'ne professed himself unable to see any thing in the Ki;itio n opposed- to the concession of the Catholic ehiints. of FALMOUTH contended, that the peti tioners were decidedly opposed to Catholic emancipation. Lord DE DUNSTANVILLE would merely maintain that there was nothing in the petition opposed to Catholic concession, The Earl of FALMOUTH had another petition to Bre sent, as to the meaning of which the Noble Lord could raise no dcniht. The Noble Earl then presented a petition from the middle division of the hundred of East Looe, in Cornwall, against any further concessions to the Catholics. Lord KING had a petition to present, which he would move should be read, as a retaliation for the reading of i he petition prevented by the Noble Earl. It was a petition from the Protestant Di.senters of the principality of Wales, in favour of Catholic: Emancipation. The Clerk was about to read the petition, when— Lord KING said, he would withdraw it Mr the pre sent, awl have it translated for their Lordships by to morrow) as it was in Welsh.—(A laugh.) The Bishop of GLOUCESTER presented a petition kora a parish in Gloucestershire, against the Catholic claims. The Earl of WINCHELSEA presented petitions against the Catholic claims, from the parishes of St. Augustine and St. Thomas, in the city of Bristol ;—frosn the inlia bittnts of BAldock, in Hertfordshire;—and from a place in Worcestershire. The Marquis of ANGLESEA presented petitions pray ing for Emancipation, from the Roman Catholics of Kil xtolanan, Tralee, Killarney, and seven other parishes, in the county of Kerry ;—from two parishes in the county of Wexford ;—from the pariah of Movilly ;—from the parish of St. Paul, in the city of Cork ;—from the parish of St. John, in the city of Kilkenny ;—from the town of Cashel ;—from a parish in the county of Waterford ; and a petition from the parish of Kilwoi th, in the county of Cirk, praying for the removal of all civil and religious disabilities, and for the repeal of the Vestry and Sub-let ting Acts. A Noble Lord, whose name we could not learn, pre sented petitions in favour of Emancipation from two pa rishes in the county Tipperary, and from Ferinoy, and another place, in the county Cork. The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition from the Silk•throwsters of Macclesfield, praying relief from their Lordships, and for an increase of the duty upon foreign thrown si►k. The Duke of DEVONSHIRE presented a petition from the Roman Catholics of Bandon, praying for Emancipation, and for the repeal of the Vestry and Sub-letting Acts. The Duke of NEWCASTLE presented petitions against Emancipation from the town of Leicester : from Gotham, and ten oth,r places, in the county of Nottingh.tm ; from a place in Lancashire ; and front Kirkdale, in the county of York. The Earl of LONGFORD presented petitions from Tyr rellspass, and the town of 3loate, in the county Westmeath, against Emancipation, and praying their Lordships to pre vent Roman Catholic settlements, such as that of the Je suits in Ireland, and to suppress the Catholic Association. Lord CAI.THORPE presented a petition from the phy sicians and surgeons of Birmingham, praying their Lord ships to introduce some measures to facilitate the study of anatomy; and a similar petition from the Magistrates of Birmingham. DANGEROUS ASSOCIATIONS (IRELAND) SUP PRESSION BILL. On the motion of the Duke of Wer.LlNOrote; the order of the day was read for the third reading of the Bill, The Duke of WELLINGTON then said that he had an amendment to propose in the Bill, which had been sug gested to him since yesterday by his Noble Friend (Lord ftedesdale.) The Noble Duke then read the amendment, to this effect—" Provided that nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorise the suppression of any association assembled for lawful purposes, on the ground of any dis turbance that may arise i❑ censerinence of the intrusion of persons not members thereof." The Noble Duke proceeded to state that the object of this Act was merely to enable the Lord Lieutenant to prevent and put down seditious asso ciations; and that the meetings described in the amend ments which be was about to propose did not come under that description. It was true that in such meetings as those described in the first part of the proviso, and assem bled for perfectly lawful and charitable purposes, persons not connected with them might intrude themselves, endea vour to create a tiot or disturbance of the public peace, and then call on the Lord Lieutenant to put them down under the provisions of this Act. But there was no doubt what ever that the Lord Lieutenant would not lie justified in putting down such meetings ; and if the Lord Lieutenant took sneh authority on himself, lie would depart from the intention and meaning of this Act. Under such circum stan.;es, he conceived that this proviso was highly neces sary. For the exercise of the authority with which he was invested by this Act, the Lard Lieutenant would be respon sible to Parliament, and it was therefore extremely de sirable that there should be nothing thrown in his, way to imrede or cast a doubt upon the exercise of that authority. Loid REDESDALE said, that strong apprehensions existed in Ireland that this Act would be turned to a very different use front that intended by the Noble Duke. The fact to which the proviso alluded hail already happened more than once in Ireland. Instances had been known there where Catholic Priests had created disturbatr.•es in meetings assembled for religious purposes, and it was to provide against such attempts, with a view to evade this Act, that he had suggested the amendment which had been proposed by the Noble Duke. It was a fact that these per tons to whom the amendment more particularly pointed, had been already known to declare their determination to proceed in the manner he Lad described under the provi sions of the Act. The Marquis of ANGLESEA—My Lords, if I thought that any observation which in iy fall from ine could have the effect of throwing impediments in the way of his Ma jesty's Ministers, whilst they are engaged in carrying into effect measures that have been so graciously recommended from the Throne, and so laudably adopted by his Majesty's servants, or that I should by possibility impede a measure ncomparably the most important, and likely to be the most beneficial to the whole empire, of any that has yet been offered to the consideration of Parliament, I would not permit myself to break silence ; but, being certain that this cannot he the case—that, on the contrary, if my ad vivo bs Invaded tv i it will kcilitstg and exredite this wvat "hateable object, t ouali venture to make a few remarks Aaron the piesent Bill. My Lords, you are about to confer a great boon ; I wish it to be without a drawback. You are about to perform an act of grace ; let me implore your Lordships not to allow this act of grace to he accompanied or, I should rather say, preceded by an ungracious act. My Lords, this Bill is an ungracious act : it appears to lie nothing less than a gratuitous insult. My Lords, it is useless and nugatory : it is a work of pure supererogation: it is an enactment against a thing which has no existence. The Catholic Association is defunct. It dissolved itself upon the prospect of brighter days. What, my Lords, gat'e birth to the Catholic Association ? Hersh, unjust, oppressive, and offensive laws. Remove a cause, and the effect necessarily ceases ; repeal the grievous penal enact ments, and the Association is annihilated ; it cannot re vive, it would have no soil on which to vegetate. As far, then, as the Association is concerned, the law will be utterly useless, Let us now consider it as it will affect other societies. What generated the Brunswick Clubs? There is not a Noble BrOnswicker present who will not at once say, the Catholic Associa tion. They profeeeed to form themselves in oppo sition to the Catholic Association, and for the pur pose of supporting the Government. Aly Lords, I give full credit to the 13runswirkers for the loyalty of their in tentions : hut I for one, having been at the head of the Irish Government when they were formed, beg leave to say that 1 could not give them my thanks for their efforts, for I felt that I had ample power and had no occasion whatever for their assistance, Oa the contrary, I only tit that I had an additional nuisance to controul. But, my Lordta as these clubs grew out of the Association, so they wiil perish at its dissolution. Therefore the Bill is useless. And note let me say one word—one parting word—concerning the Association. That body was com posed of men of the first genius and abilities of Ireland.— Asionget them were many ardent, Ylolnt, speculative spi rits, all writhing ender galling wrongs. They have been violent, irritating, offensive, insulting,—frequently dealing in unjustifiable personalities ! But had it not one redeem : lug quality ? I say it had, and that so important a one, that it may be considered as an equivalent—a set-off against all its vices and its errors. Is the Bill of Relief which we are all expecting with so much anxiety, one that is likely to produce effects the mast beneficial, not only to Ireland, but to the empire generally ? I affirm that it is, and I have no doubt that a large majority of your Lord ships will concur in this opinion. And who or what, I would ask, has mainly contributed to this important ob- • ject? I say the Catholic Association. Let me implore your Lordships, then, to set aside this Bill, and pass at once and rapidly to that of relief. Grant generously, but above all grant confidently, and I will venture to ay-ert that you will reap an ample harvest fur your magnanimity. The Earl of LONGFORD could not sit silent and bear such praise bestowed on the Catholic Association, and more than censure cast upon the Brunswick Clubs, which he (Lord Longford) would maintain had been honestly and solely defensive.—(Hear.)—What, however, was the case with regard to the Association? It had been formed, like other joint-stock companies, to injure the interests of the etwuntry. Other joint-stock companies had almost ruined the finances of the country, and this joint-stock company of faction, sedition, disaffection, and treason, had almost ruined the country by its proceedings. In looking to their proceedings, he conceived that there existed some grounds for palliation, not in their favour, but by reason of the forbearance exhibited towards them by the two preceding administrations in Ireland. The Noble Lord concluded by observing, that the minds of all well-informed persons were mule up on the subject of the necessity of this measure, be cause they were convinced that it was altogether impos sible that any Government could possibly go on under the circumstances in which the Government of Ireland hid been placed for some time. The Marquis of ANGLESEA begged to state, that he hail never attacked or shown himself hostile to the Bruns wick Clubs by any act of his government. His expres sion, to which allusion had been made to-night, was not that these clubs were formed on offensive principles, but that they were in their nature defensive. The Earl of LONGFGRD regretted he had been induced to adopt a misrepresentation. Lord GODERICH was not opposed in principle to the Bill, under the circumstances, although he felt no reason certainly to be enamoured of it, or its provisions, which were certainly stringent enough. He had no desire what ever to heap censure on the Association a-s a body, neither was he anxious to become their eulogist. He conceived the existence .of the Association to be altogether inconsist ent with the principles of our Constitution, as had been well expressed by his Majesty's speech ; subversive of all good government in Ireland, and incompatible with the just prerogatives of the Crown. He believed that Asso ciation dangerous in itself; and, paradoxical as it might appear to their Lordships, dangerous, not so touch for what it had done, as what it had prevented being done by other bodies. The extraordinary feature of this Associa tion was, that it not only had excited and agitated the passions and feelings of a sensitive people, but had allayed those feelings, and seemed with equal effect to ride amid the storm triumphant, and direct its fury at pleasure. It was impossible, as things stood, that the laws could he administered. To what was all this to be assigned? To nothing less than this--that the Roman Catholic popula tion felt themselves labouring under is permanent and Sc • verely felt grievance.—(Hear.)—lf that grievance were not removed, he would ask where was the boasted British Constitution in Ireland ?—(Hear.)—He gave full credit to the opposers of this measure for rectitude of intention; hut lie could not help expressing, before he sat down, once more, his conviction that should they prevail in their op position, it would he productive to him of deep concern, end to the public of serious embarrassment and alarm. Lord ELLENBOROUGH hoped their Lordships were ful:y persuaded that nothing short of an absolute and ho perious necessity had induced His Majesty's Ministers to put down by this Bill the Association. He was free to confess this Bill would not do it alone. But much was to be expected from the effect of it, combined with the co operation of the contemplated measure of grace and con cession. In point of thee, it was necessary the measure of coercion must precede that of grace. He would, in con elusion, observe, that whatever gratification might be al fin ded to others by the circumstance, it would be compe -1 rativeiv trifling compared to that which His Majesty's nisters . would feel whenever the progress of events should release theta from the responsibility under which they must labour, as long as they were armed with the strong powers sought by the enactment of the Bill before their ' Lordship. Lord MELBOURNE entered at some length into the defence of the measures of the Irish Government (hiring the last few years, particularly whilst he had filled the important office of Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. He was persuaded if this measure were not fol lowed up by one of grace and favour, it would fall alto gether short of the pacification or conciliation of the Irish Catholics. He felt it his duty to give to the Bill, as it stood, his cordial support, as part of a system which he trusted would have the best influence on the future condi tion and well-being of that part of our empire. The Earl of MANSFIELD believed there never had been known an instance of an Association of a more alarming and dangerous nature, fostered as it were within the state, than the Catholic Association of Ireland. The evil had originated partly in the remissness of Government with respect to the Catholic body, and still more in the impunity which the political leaders there had been so long suffered to enjoy. With respect to another Bill which it was understood to he the intention of the Noble Duke at the head of the Govern ment to propose, he (the Earl of Mansfield) would not form any conjecture or attempt an anticipation of its contents, but contented himself with saying, that when that measure came before their Lordships, he would consider it with his best attention ; and he entertained a confident hope that, as his opinions were unaltered on the subject of Roman Ca tholic disabilities, so his vote, notwithstanding the force of recent examples, would be in complete unison with his pre viously expressed sentiments. Noble Loris had been re commended to repose with unlimited confidence on the Noble Duke (Wellington); Auld if it were merely a reliance upon the good torture that generally attached to that dis tinguished individual that was requited, no man could have a more implicit, he had almost said, superstitious confidence than himself ; but, brilliant as had been the fortunes of that illustrious person in his military capacity, he (the Earl of Mansfield) feared that his political success in this instance at least, would not equal his former triumphs. If lie could believe that the Bill fur the admission of Roman Catholics to Parliament would contain such conditions as the Catho lics would not accept, and that the evil could be thus put off fur a little, then he would not he satisfied, for such a Bill could not pass without an abandonment of the principle of the exclusion of the Roman Catholics from Parliament, which he considered an essential principle of our Protestant Constitution. The Duke of WELLINGTON having already troubled their Lordships once that evening with his sentiments on this subject, would not now detain the House for any length of time, more particularly in adverting to a measure not at present before Parliament, but which he should have the honour hereafter to submit to its con sideration. He could assure the Noble Lords that when this measure was brought forward, their Lordships might rely on it they would find it brought forward in such a manner by his Majesty's Ministers, and so complete in it . ,wlf, as to be calculated to attain its objects without any of ; the drawbacks or jippeciiMentra to is operation whicii, his Noble Friend had adverted to. He now rose principally ! for the purpose of assuring the Noble Lord that he was very much mistaken if he supposed that serious efforts had not been made by his Majesty's Government, is the course of last year, to suppress and put an end to an Association of which the Noble Lord and every body else complained. The fact was, cases were submitted not only to the Crown Lawyers in Ireland; but to the legal advisers of the Govern ment in this country, with a view to ascertain whether any steps could be taken under the existing law, the Convert-. lion Act, or the common law of the land, to put down the Roman Catholic Association ; and the result of the opinions of the law-officers of the Crown was to produce a convic tion on the minds of his Majesty's servants that it would not be judicious to make any attempt to proceed against the Association. Under the circumstances of the case, Mini eters had no alternative, except to come down to Parlia ment, and ask it to invest his Majesty with new powers, to enable him to suppress this body. In the course of the address which he hid made to their Lordships on the oc casion of moving the second reading of the Bill now be fore the House, he had stated the circumstances attending the measure adopted for the suppression of the Catholic Association in 1825, and also mentioned the causes of its failure, which arose, not only from the deficiency of the law, but from the division subsisting in the Government and the Parliament on this subject, and the difference of opinion existing between this and the other House of Par liament on all questions relating to Ireland. These divi sions, which in his opinion had more than any thing else occasioned the existence of the Roman Catholic Association, and contributed to the growth of the evil complained of in that country,—an evil which eventually placed Ministers under the necessity of considering the whole state of Ire land, and recommending the adoption of measures neces sary to bring it to what he might call a state of civilized society ;—those divisions were productive of the most in jurious effects. Nothing was to be feared in the way of rebellion, nothing in the way of foreign war, or of any of those dangers calculated to create well-grounded apprehen sions of this sort in the minds of ft;s Majesty's Govern ment ; but the state of society was - not to be remedied by any other means than representing to his Majesty the ne cessity of recotnmending Parliament to take into consider ation the whole state of Ireland, with a view to the re moval of Roman Catholic disabilities. These reasons in duced him (the Duke of Wellington) and others of his Majesty's Ministers to act as they did, and influenced them in the recommendation they had submitted to hi. Majesty previous to the meeting of Parliament on this subject, which recommendation his Majesty had been graciously pleased to adopt ; and accordingly the subject was introduced in the Speech from the Throne. Lord CALTHORPE observed, it had been said that the [torten Catholic Association was the offspring of the re sistance that had been offered to the Roman Catholic claims, a nd he did not deny that fact ; but that was only a pelt of the truth. The strength of the Catholic Associa tion was derived from the circumstance of the resistance to the Roman Catholics being nut only considered by them selves as a grievance, but from its be.ng declared to be such by a considerable part of the Legislature. With respect. to the present Bill, he felt curry, considering the ungracious aspect it assumed, that Ministers had had recourse to it.— He could not but regret, that many petitions presented on this subject had been brought forward in such a way, as if it were the intention to overawe Parliament in its decision upon it. Lord lIEDESDALE thought it his duty to oppose the Bill, heejuse it stated that an Association described in the Speech from the throne, and in the preamble to the Bill itself, as one totally subversive of all order, was a society which the common law of the country could not suppress. As a lawyer, he held that position to be utterly false. The Roman Catholic Association might and would have been suppressed if the law had been duly administered in Ire• land. It was true that there might have been considerable difficulty in enforcing the law, but the Irish Government never tried to do so. He could not permit the Bill to pass into a law without entering his protest in the journals against the principles which it involved—namely, that an Association such as that in question was not contrary to and punishable by the common law of the land. One further observation—the Association was only a tool in the hands of the Roman Catholic priesthood, and except the latter could he brought into a state of obedience to the Government, attempts like the present were perfectly use less. Unless the Noble Duke had some measure of coer cion in view against the priests, every other measure which He could devise for the benefit of Ireland mast be null and void. The Earl of ELDON would take an early opportunity of perfectly satisfying every body that it was not his fault that while he was Chancellor the common law of the land had not been resorted to for the purpose of putting down the Roman Catholic Association. lie preferred postpon ing the proof to another occasion, as a Noble Lord, whom he could wish to see present when he introduced the sub ject, was not then in his place. The Bill was then read a third time and passed. Adjourned at a quarter past Eight till Thursday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. -(LAST NIGHT.) Mr. W. DUNDAS brought up a report from the Edin burgh Gas Company. Co'onel SIBTHORPE presented a petition from Lin coln, against the Witham Navigation Bill. Also a peti tion from the same city against a chose in the above Bill, restricting steam navigation on that river. The Hon. Mem ber observed, that the prohibition of such a mode of na vigation would be extremely inconvenient, and the peti tioners complained that it would also interfere with the rights and privileges of the inhabitants of the city of Lincoln. Sir W. INGLEBY brought up some reports relative to private Bills. Sir It VYVYAN presented several petitions from various parishes and districts in the county of Cornwall against the Catholics. He observed, that freak the religious state of that county they would not view this great question as merely a political one; they did not talk of "bloody Queen Mary," as it had been said they did, but they wished the Constitution, as established in 1688, to be preserved. —He would be the last man in the world to agitate the country, but the people wished their Parliament to be supreme.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—lie wished the question to be discussed mildly and temperately. He must say, however, that what had passed within the last few weeks, or he might say within the last few days, had tended in no slight degree to shake his confidence in the honour of public men.—(Hear.)—He would allude to no individuals, but deprecate inconsistency. Every man had a right to change his opinions if he thought proper, upon any subject, but he must think it extraordinary that so many persons had, in the language which had been lately abed, " miraculously gone over." It might he attributed to hearing those arguments which the House were not al lowed to hear, and knowing those secret reasons which they were not allowed to know; still, however, it was in , comprehensible to him bow individuals who had followed and expressed the most decided opinions should have gone over suddenly. If he looked at the progress of this question, lie found that with the Whigs it was a party question, and in consequence never was brought fairly before them. He could not help observing, that in many cases places made the men, and he firmly believed that if a Tory Administration could have ken formed which would have supported the Constitution as established in 1688, there would have been plenty to have supported it ; for after all, it was not ' absolutely necessary, when the responsibility rested chiefly upon the head where—" Sic volo, sic jubeo" was the motto. He was willing to give all due credit to the. Duke of Wellington. lie believed that there was but one man, lie meant the Duke of Nlariborough, who could he classed with bins for military set vice. Ile gave him credit for his foreign policy, but great as he might be, he (Sir R. Vyvyan) could not repose a blind • confidence in him, and vote tor a measure which he did not yet understand. He would not speak of securities, but when they came before the House, he should then give his opinion on them. It had been said that there was a pros pect of a civil war, or, in other words, rebellion in Ire land—but still it was the duty of that House to hand down the Constitution to their posterity as pure as they had found it. There was one part of this great question to which he felt himself hound to direct the attention of the House. There was a great conspiracy directed by great and despotic individuals—( Hear, hear, hear. ) going on in Europe since the fall of Bonaparte. It had been established at Vienna, and strengthened at Laybach and Verona. It was a conspiracy against the liberties of the peoplesif this country. It was directed by the Jesuits, and carried on in the spirit and intolerance of the Catholic religion. If it sought not to restore to that religion its pristine simplicity, it sought to restore its pristine oninipo tence ; and when the House knew that such a body were distributed throughout thi country, they should consider well before they legislated on such an important measure ; it was impossi;de to look with indifference to this great question, which, if carried, be had no doubt would change the Constitution of this country, the consequences of which it was impossible to foresee. Mr. PENDARVES said, before these petitions were brought up he wished to say a few words on what had fdllen from his Honourable Colleague. lie (Mr. Pendarves) was convinced the great landed in terests, and the majority of the respectability of the county, were in favour of Catholic emancipation—(haar, hear.) — The petition presented by his Hen. Colleague had been got up at district meetings, and by meetings convened privately 14y the clergy—(Hear, hear)—by this means they had obtained 9,000 signatures, but could that he called the majority of a county, which contained 250,000 souls? ' If there was a majority of the freeholders and inhabitants of the county adverse to concession, why, he would ask, was not a County Meeting called to determine that fact. —(Loud cries of hear, hear.)—lnstead of this mode of ascertaining the sentiments of the county, recourse was had to district meetings, and by adroitly convening simultaneous meetings at a short notice—in some cases the notice of only one day being given—art attempt was made by some active persons to get up petitions, which he believed by no means contained the sense of the majority of the county. What he conceived the sense of that majority to be, was, that this important question should be confided to the wisdom of Parliament, which was the most fit and competent place to determine what should be done respecting it.—(Hear, hear.)—lle would now mention a few circumstances to I the House to chew the manner in which these petitions were got up. From Penzance, from Launceston, from Bodmin, and from Truro, and from perishes in the vicinity of these towns, petitions had been forwarded. At some of these places notice of meeting was only given three days pre viously, and in some instances the notice was limited to one day., The invitation to attend the Meeting at Bodmin was confined to those who opposed the claims of the Catholics, so that that Meeting went off quietly and regularly, as it was restricted to those who were only of the same way of thinking. The meeting at Penzance was dissolved without any decision at all having been come to ; for the Mayer seeing that the majority were likely to decide in favour of concession, declined to put the question, and dissolved the meeting—(Loud cries of " hear, hear,")—so that the peti tion signed subsequently by the Mayor and others, could not be regarded as the decision cf a public meeting. Another meeting was attended by two Clergymen and one farmer, and his (Mr. P.'s) informant, who had waited for some time, said, that after signing the petition, they went away, but that-no other person. Attended. At - Bodmin, the bell man went about, desiring all people to resort to the Town hall, and affix their signatures to the petition. His efforts were aided by inflammatory pamphlets and by pictures, published by some society denominating itself a Religious Tract Society, in Paternoster-row. One of these publi cations, entitled " Look About Ye," was one of the most abominable publications he had ever seen. Another publi cation, entitled " The Days of Queen Mary," contained, as a frontispiece, a picture, in which Roman Catholics were represented as burning a portion of their Protestant fellow-subjects. All persons were sought after, even school boys were requested and urged to sign these petitions. Ile would mention one more circumstance which had been stated to him by a Magistrate, under whose observation the transa'•tion fell. Two men had been tried and convicted of stealing a large quantity of turnips. After the convic tion had taken place, these two persons were immediately cereassed, and their signatures eagerly sought after and obtained to the Anti-Catholic petition.—(Much laughter, and cries of hear.)—This showed that persons getting up these petitions were not exceedingly select as to the means by which signatures were obtained, or AS to the persona whose names were affixed to them. In many instances re course was had to coaxing and frightening ; persons went about from door to door soliciting ; inflammatory pam phlets were disseminated—and no means were left untried to obtain signatures. He believed, if these shameful pam phlets were not distributed, and if fanatical preaching were not resorted to for the purposes of political excitement, that the people of Cornwall would be well satisfied in leaving this question to ParG•unent.—(Hear.)—He could not ihr bear from taking this opportunity of thanking his Ma jesty's Ministers for the measure of concession which they had announced. In particular he would commend the conduct of a Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Peel), rot now a Member of that House. The port he had acted conferred the highest honour upon him. Mr. BULLER expressed his opinion, that in Cornwall, as in every other county in England, whatever might be the numerical majority, there was a decided majority of the talent and information of the populatitu in favour of the Catholic Chime. . Mr. IRTSKISSON observed, that no one could have witnessed the talents which had been that evening dis played by the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Cornwall, without feeling that that Hon. Baronet was perfectly com petent to fill any office of high rank in the country which the confidence of the Crown might think proper to entrust to him. Bat, although justice compelled him to pay this compliment to the lion. Baronet's abilities, be (Mr. Huskis•on) wished to address himself principally to tile last part of the Honourable Baronet's speech. The lion. Baronet seemed to consider that the all-engrossing topic which, for the last three weeks, had engaged the atten tion of every thinking man in the kingdom, was to be measured, not with reference to the interests of Ireland or the British Empire. That the Hon. Baronet seemed to deem the smallest consideration in his view of the case. The lion. Baronet was disposed to look at the subject as a great question of European policy. lie seemed to think that an attempt was making to restore the Catholic Religion to the state which it formerly held; that there was neither more nor less than an extensive conspiracy throughout Europe for that purpose, the centre of which conspiracy was at Rome. The Hon. Baronet alleged, that ever since the Congress at Vienna, the conspiracy to which he alluded had been in full and active operation. Now the principle which pervaded all the acts of the Congress at Vienna was, that no distinctions of religion should interfere with poli tical arrangements. It was a principle which had been applied all over Germany ; it was a principle which, some time before, hail been applied in the Continental state of that Gracious Sovereign whose beneficent recommedation in favour of the Catholics was so soon to become the sub ject of consideration in Parliament. It was a principle which had been followed up at Laybach, at Verona, and at all the subsequent meetings of the Representatives of the great Powers of Europe. If the Honourable Baronet had confined himself to saying that there were powerful Ministers in the services of some of the Continental Sovereigns, who were not friends to civil and reli gious liberty, and who viewed with jealousy the progress of knowledge and information on the Continent, he (Mr. Icluskisson) would have agreed with the Hon. Baronet that such might he the case. But when the Hon. Baronet as serted that these parties were at the same time engaged in a conspiracy to restore to the Roman Catholics in Ireland, and elsewhere, all their former power, he (Mr. liuskis son) must beg leave to dissent from any such proposition. As far as his knowledge and observation went, he could state unequivocally, that the party in France which the Hon. Baronet considered friendly to the Jesuits, inimical to liberty, anxious for the re-establishment of the absolute power of the Catholic Church, and desirous to abolish all free institutions, was the party that viewed with regret and concern the attempts of the British Parliament to tranquillise Ireland by admitting the Catholics of that country to a full participation in the civil rights enjoyed by their Protestant countrymen. On the other hand, he was quite sure that the party in France which was anxious to keep the power of the Pope within moderate limits, and to confine him to his proper .pbere,was delighted at the course which the British Parliament appeared to be about to adopt. The party of which he had first spoken received with dissatisfaction the turn which affairs were taking in Eng land, because that party was unfriendly to civil and reli gious liberty generally, and because it thought that the effort now making to restore civil and religious liberty to the Catholics tof Ireland would, if successful, prove fatal to its views, hoped, and expectations of being one day en abled to restore the ancient system of intolerance and op pression. He was persuaded that if the Hon. Baronet would take the trouble of inquiring into the conduct of public men on the Continent, he would find that in propor tion as they were friendly to free institutions they were anxious that we should concede their rights to the Catho lics; and that in proportion as they were adverse to free institutions, and desirous to cramp the progress of liberty, and put down the spirit of improvement, tiny were anxious that we should withhold those right. As to the Jesuits, there was no difference of opinion between the Honour able Baronet and himself on that subject ; and he should b e vary glad to see that odious institution put down. The petitions were then brought up. On the motion that they be read, • Sir R. VYVYAN, in answer to the question why, if the feeling of the county of C ornwa ll was so strong in hostility to Catholic concession, there had not been a county meeting? observed, that there had been a county meeting. It had been attended by thirteen Magistrates, all who were in the neighbourhood. There were two - Magistrates pre sent at the Meeting who were very favourable to Parlia mentary Reform, and who talked of Magna Charts having b ee n obtained by our Catholic ancestors, and of ether mat ters, which had just as much to do with the Catholic Question as the Institutes of Justinian had to do with it. laugh)—With regard t o w h a t h a d f a ll en f ro m the Right lug igh a tH h on. Member for Liver Fool, it gave him (Sir R. Vyvyan) infinite satisfaction to hear that Right Hoe. Gentleman say, that if any measure were brought forward to do away with monastic i ns ti tut i ons i n t hi s coun t r y, he would be one of the first to support such a Measure. Such a step, if it did not remove all hostility to further concession to the Catholics, would remove a great part of the objec tions to it which existed in his mind. As to what had fallen from another Hon. Member, who supposed that he (s i r R. Vyvyan) and thos e w h o t h oug h t w i t h him on the subject, fancied that the m o d ern Catholics were precisely what they were in the days of Mary, all he could say was ; that they were lLA so besott e d as to imagine that such men as the Duke of Norfolk, or any other enlightened Catholics, held to such opinions. He willingly acknow ledged that the rights which were taken away from the Catholic Peers should be restored to them ; and he should be happy to see every Catholic Peer occupying his seat in the other House of Parliament. But in this House there Were no rights of sitting. Many other persons besides Ca tholics were unqualified to sit in the House of Commons. Clergymen were unqualified; or persons not posse,sing certain pecuniary qualifications. Were it not so, the lowest and poorest cf the people would be entitled to sit there. In the House of Peers, however, there was a right of sitting. Ile should have been glad if the supporters of the question had first tried the question of re-seating the Catholic Peers in the House of Lords.—(Several Members, " It has been tried.")—Then let it be tried again. That would have been much better than taking the country by surprise.— (Hear.)—With regard to the late French ;Min i stry aid their opinions and wishes respecting concession to the Irish Catholics, he was surprised to hear what had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman. He could only say that the organs of the Ministry expressed the sentiments which he (Sir R. Vyvyan) had ascribed to them. Mr. HUSKISSON, in explanation, said that he did not assert what he had asserted on the subject adverted to by the Hon. Baronet on any official grounds ; but of this he was sure, that if the Hon. Baronet were to go to Paris, and to mingle with society in that capital, he would soon find that the friends of the Jesuits, and the enemies of Ca tholic Emancipation, were the same persons. The petitions were then ordered to be printed. Mr. EGERTON presented a petition against Concession to the Roman Catholics, frem the county of Chester. Mr. WILBRAHAM, connected as he was with the county of Chester, begged to be allowed to say a few words on the subject. He had good reason to believe that some of the individuals whose names were attached to the peti tion, were of very tender age. When, however, he recol lected the efforts that were made to give the Meeting at Knutsford an overwhelming character, such as to rival the meeting of the county of Kent—when be recollected the individuals who condescended to go round and endeavour to prevail upon persons to attend the Meeting, by stating that the question was not merely whether the Catholics should be admitted to civil rights, but whether the Pro testant Church should be allowed to be endangered, hm was surprised that a much larger party was not found to sup. port the petition. He was sure that he might say, in the name of the great body of people in Cheshire that they were perfectly ready to acquiesce in any measure which his M jesty's Ministers might bring forward to give tranquillity to Ireland and strength to the Empire, provided they could show that the concessions which they proposed to make were compatible with the security of the Protestant Esta blishment. So much in their name. In his own, not believing there was any danger, be thought it idle to talk of securities. _ _ Mr. LESTER complained of the manner in which the petition had been got up, and of the arts resorted to in order to obtain signatures. He objected to the words of the petition, where it stated that the Catholics never dis tinguished between their religious and civil allegiance. He might prove the contrary by numerous instances, and par • ticularly that of the Catholic Lord Howard, who bad de stroyed the Catholic Armada in his service to a Protestant Princess, and who had been excommunicated for so doing. The petition was then ordered to he on the table, and to be printed. Mr. BANKES presented two petitions from Grimatone, and another place against the Catholic Claims. BOROUGH OF TRURO. The Hon. MEMBER then moved for a new writ for, the Borough of Truro, in the place of Lord Fitzroy So merset, and another for the same Borough, in the place of W. E. Towline, Esq., both of the Hon. Members having accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Lord MANDEVILLE presented three petitions against ' the Catholic Claims. Mr. BELL presented a similar petition from a parish in the county of Northumberland. Mr. FRENCH presented a petition from the county of ROFCOIIIIIIOD, and petitions from the parishes of Ardland, St. John, St. Peter, and St. Killoodle, in the same county, in favour of the Catholic Claims. _ Mr. BORRADAILE presented a petition of an opposite nature from Newcastle.under-Lyne. Mr. LLOYD presented four petitions from places in Ireland, in favour of the Catholic Claims ; and two peti tions from the same country—tile first against the Sub letting Act, and the last against the Vestry Bill. Mr. BASTARD presented a petition against any further concession to the Catholics, from the city of Exeter. The lion. Member took that opportunity of stating, that his opinions on the subject of concessions had undergone no change. Sir T. D. ACLAND had been desired by a numerous and very respectable body of his constituents to attend in his place in that House, and to join his colleague in pre senting the petition. Athough, he was sorry to say, that the petition was against what he could not but consider as the best policy of the country, he was bound to bear witness to its prayer being couched in temperate language. lie was likewise bound to state, that although the petition was numerously signed, and by a decided majority of the Meeting, he had another petition which he should present, and which wowed show that a great proportion of his con stituents were of the directly opposite opinions. Mr. HOLES WORTH spoke to the respectability of the Meeting. Lord EBRINGTON complained of the misrepresenta tions which had been made respecting Devonshire, by persons unconnected with the county, and ignorant of its sentiments. It hail been circulated through the country, that the people of Devonshire were almost unanimously against the principles of religious liberty being conceded to the Roman Catholic subjects of the kingdom ; and that were the opinions of the county fairly canvassed, they would be found against Emancipation in the ratio of 99 in 100. He most positively denied the truth of this assertion. Great exertions had been made to get up the Exeter peti tion. The people had been asked whether they would not support the Government against the Radicals, and every prejudice had been excited, and every misrepresentation had been made, to obtain their support to the petition.-- And what had been the result of these artifices and exer tions ? Out of the male population of the county, amount ing to 200,000, only 16,000 persons had been induced to sign. He could not at all subscribe to what had been said by the Hon. Gentleman opposite, as to the order of the Exeter int eting, and he wished the people at that meeting had only conducted themselves a little better. Ile pro tested against the sense of the meeting being taken as un index of the sense of the county. Mr. LOTT bore testimony to the respectability of the Meeting at which the petition had been got up. It was true that the Aristocracy of the County, in favour of the Roman Catholics, preponderated, but the signatures to the petition were all of tl em highly respectable. The petition was brought up and read, and ordered to be printed. Sir T. D. ACLAND said, he rose with pride and sa tisfaction to present a petition most respectably signed by the freholders, leaseholders, and other inhabitants of the County of Devon, in favour of the Roman Catholic Claims (hear, hear !). It contained 2,200 signatures, to each of which was attached the address anti designation of the party; amongst the signatures were the Venerable Lord Lieutenant of the County, the High Sheriff, of 50 acting Magistrates of the County, amongst whom were three out of the four gentlemen who had acted as Chair men of the Sessions during the last three years (hear, hear !). It had also affixed to it the signatures of 20 Clergymen of the Established Church in that county—a body hitherto opposed to the Roman Catholic Claims in that county, and amongst them was to be found the name of the distinguished Chancellor of time Diocese (hear, hear, hear !)—a man who was an ornament to his station. He thought he had said enough to shew the respectability of the petitioners, anti hoped that the great question, in favour of which it was, would be speedily and for ever set at rest. The petition was read, and ordered to be printed. Sir T. D. ACLAND presented three similar petitions front districts in Devonshire, and also a petition from the hundred of Tanstuk, praying a protecting duty on wool. titions were presented against the Catholic Claims from Walcott, and another place in Somersetshire, by Sir T. LET IiBRIDG K j from Warkup, in Rutlandshire, and Far thington, in Northaniptonshire,by Mr. THANTfr om Ha lifax, in Yorkshire, signed by 10,500 persons, by Mr. DtiNCOMBE. Mr. O'NEILL took this opportunity of stating, that the majority of his Constituents, in Kingston-upon-Hull, were in favour of the Catholic Claims. Mr. DUNCOMBE, in moving that the petition front Halifax be printed, said that all the persons who signed it were over twenty-one years of age. Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented petitions in favour of the Catholics. from Bandon (Ireland); and from the Protestant Dissenters of Brighton and Berkhampstead. The Noble Lord also presented a petition from Bandon against the Sub-letting Act and the Vestry Act. Mr. OTWAY CAVE presented a petition from the Protestant Dissenting Minister and Congregation of Lei cester, in favour of the Catholic Claims. EMPLOYMENT OF THE POOR. Mr. SLANEY rose to bring forward the motion of which he had given notice, relative to the provision for, and employment of, the poor in this country. It was stated by Mr. Sergeant Beaufoy, who eat in that House so►ue time ago, that if the then system of Poor's Rate was persevere in, we should in fifty years have the Poor's Rates moot to twelve millions, and that prophecy he had little doubt would be fulfilled, as they now exceeded eight millions year. He conceived that the butthens,wl(ich the present system threw on the agricultural and other interests of the country as a mere trifle, compared with the degradatioe and disgrace which that system brought upon a large per' time of the community. In the latter part of the last cell' tory, the number of paupers was us one in twelve; ro 1801 it was as one in nine ; and now it was as one if , seven. There were at this moment more than two mil' of paupers in the country. With the increase of pay p , rism came the increase of crime, as the various Re' turns on the Table fully demonstrated. This evil he at• tribute(' mainly to the abuses of the Poor Laws, The law clearly said, that employment was to be pro' ailed fur those who had no work, and provision made fur their children ; but by seizing on one ambigeoue word, namely, the word " impotent," who were also to be provided for, the whole spirit of the law was perverted• The poor were now provided for in three different way's► in different districts. First, able-bodied labourers were paid out of the Poor's-rate ; or the rent of their housee was paid from the same source ; or, thirdly a weekly allow' once was made to them and their children by - the mwrr' seers, Now, he appealed to those Hon. Members who had studied this subject, whether they had not observed the evils of this system ? The lion. Member argued that the relief now afforded to married men in proportion t o the number of their children had the effect of making red' idle and careless, and of inducing them to enter into tall' provident marriages, and destroying that forethought which men, in all stations of society ought to encourage in the highest possible degree. In one of the reports it was stated, very truly, that low wages gave rise to allow" ances, and that allowances gave rise to low .wages, DO that they operated as alto nate cause and effect. The ardent to which he objected extended through eighteen conntiee lying south of a line drawn from Bath to Cambridge• —One of the consequences of this was the increase of the system of poaching. In one county persons had been taken up on the charge of poaching, and of thee eleven were parish paupers, being single men who received 2s. rid. or 3s. per week ; the twelfth was an experienced poacher, who hired the rest to go out at 2s. 6d. a night• This was sure to be the case where single men, though able and willing to work, only obtained frem Bs—to 4i. per week from the parish, while married men, merely on . ace count of having families, and without any reference so cir cumstances, got as much as 12s. per week. rle now came to the remedy. Many remedies had been attempted ) bet they had all failed, because those who had made them had not known what was the real object in view. The real object was to give assistance to the poor in such a manner as not to increase pauperism. The object of the Poor Lave would be better attained by totally supporting a few, than by partially supporting all. By that means a line would be drawn between the idle and the industrious, and_the g ood and the bad. It was further proposed that, after a tertaia fixed day, any able-bodied man, if he applied for reliefs might have parish work, but he should not be allowed to receive wages from a private person, and to have those wages made up from the parish funds, While in actual employment. Some people were afraid that this chat ge would affect the fanners severely, but they should re collect that, in proportion as wages were raised," poor' , rates must fall. He concluded by moving ,for leave tO bring in a Bill to declare and amend the laWe relating tO the employment and support of aide-bodied paupers, and for the better rating of tenements of a certain. value. After a few words from Mr. Home and Mr. Leave was given. CROWN LANDS. Mr. D. W. HARVEY wished to make a Motion which bad been rendered necessary by the suppression of the Finance Committee, whose labours bad been beneficially directed both to the diminution of the expences and the advantageous increase of the revenues of Government. The object of this motion was to possess the House 0 1 the state of the Crown property. That portion of the property which consisted of leases, that would ex pire in seven years, was the portion ~to which he wished particularly to call the attention of the House• He was sure there was no species of property po capable . 01 improvement. He could venture to say that if the pro: perty now let on leases, that would expire ill Seven years time, were re-let for their full value, they would produce to the revenue some hundreds of thousands of pounds, which might be placed in the hands of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The returns he should move for Would, he had no doubt, fully establish this propOsktion. Thew was one thing which forcibly suggested the propriety of /I more minute inspection of the manner of managing this property, and that was, that although, as he and others who had ever had any thing to do with property knew very well, that the transfers of it were always attended with great d. day and expence, yet, that in making transfers' of these Crown lands, there was a must felicitous expedition , in the operations of the office. There might probably be good reasons for that expedition, since he foand that in one instance, in the transfer of some property of this kind in the county of Essex, a singular condition had been annexed to ir, giving it, no doubt, a high de gree of recommendation to the purchaser; and that was, that he was to have the power of naming some of the Ma— gistrates of the county—in other words, that be could nominate the exclusive Judges of a territory for many miles around him. Another instance, which was - worthy of the notice of Parliament, was that of a purchase of Crown lands being made in Essex, the purchaser of which was entitled to appoint two Magistrates. Now, in that die triet, which was under the euperintendance of three Ms.! gistrates, there were 70 public-houses, 50 of which were the property of one of the Magistrates appointed by the purchaser of this estate. The gentletnan to whom he alluded he admitted was an uoexceptionable person, but he was adverse to the possession of a power by say person which was liable to abuse. The Hon. Member concluded by moving for " Returns from the Office of Woods and Forests ; unexpired leases; proposals for new leases ; dis position of certain premises of property sold in the list seven years." Mr. HUME said, that if this motion was not extended to the Light-houses, he should bring that subject before the notice of the House. After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the motion was agreed to. The other Orders of the Day were then agreed to, after which the House adjourned at half past Eight o'clock. Lady Caroline Powlett entertained a large party of'fasbionables on Monday evening, at her house la Curzon-street, May-fair. We are happy to hear that INIr. Abernethy is fast recovering from hi 3 late alarming indisposition. On Friday, the Lord Advocate left this city for London, to attend his duty in Parliment—Editabur9 4 Evening Courunt. The manufacturers of Trowbridge are, we are sorry to say, in a very dissatisfied state,—to such an el" tent tint the trade of the town is suffering, severely ; and the cavalry have orders to be ready whenever called Wsst Briton. This day the price of the quartern loaf is to 1)8 lowered Id. It will then sell for, fine, 11 d. ; houteholdr Bd. Glasgow Herald of Monday. It has been stated to us that the question re specting the right of the Corporation to exact a town toll in this borough, will be tried at the ensuing Lincoln Assizes.—Boston Gazette. Jacob Tonson purchased the copyright of Venice Preserved for fifteen pounds. What would such another play hz worth now ? Though the shooting season is over, no le" than eleven prisoners have recently been committed to the Devizes Bi idewell for offences against the Game Laws. The militia, it is said, will be embodied for 1 month's training in May, previous to the proposed reduc tion in the Staff. Two years .since the North Highlands were, always supplied with g rain from the coast; hut, with the improvei cultivation of the soil and favourable seasons, it is now so plentiful that the farmers continue busy in ex porting to the south. Three days last week there were sixty cart loads each day sent front Strathspey to Findkorns to he shipped for London. —Edinburgh Evening Couraxt. - - STATE OF TRADE.—The improvement in business noticed in our last still continues. Water twist is scarce, and in some instances obtains a trifling advance ; mule yarns are less in request, and do nut do more than support previous prices. In power-loom printing cloths there is more business; but, notwithstanding the diminu tion of the production by the turn-out at. Stockport, hi therto without any advance of prices. No advance indeed is to be expected until the stocks previously accumulated have all been absorbed. The calico printers, we believe, are generally busy ; and some houses in various lines, whose business is chiefly with shippers, have informed us that this week and the last they have taken very consi derable orders. Muslims and fancy goods are better, and we are happy to learn that here at least there is some re vival ht the silk trade.---Manchester Mercury.