The Sun. — London, England, 1858-04-24 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—(YESTERDA.T.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at 5 o'clock. Viscount DUNGANNON gave notice that, on the 7th of May, he should put a question to the noble earl the Secretary for Foreign Affairs with respect to the English Church in Paris. The Earl of A.LBENIARLE presented a petition in favour of legalising the marriage with a deceased wife's sister. THE DIVORCE ACT. Lord LYNDHURST said he had received several communications from Ireland with respect to the Divorce Act, and he begged to ask the n3ble and learned lord on the woolsack whether it was his inten tion t• extend this measure to that part of the country! The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had not even considered such an extension, and at the present mo ment he was unable to give to the noble and learned lord any answer to the question. RELIGIOUS WORSHIP IN POPULOUS DISTRICTS. The Bishop of EXETER (who was very indistinctly beard) lose to move that a select committee of this house be appointed to inquire into the deficiency of means of spiritual instruction and places of divine worship in the d metropolis, and in other populous distr icts in England and Wales, especially in the m inin g and manufacturing elistriets ; and to consider the fittest means of meeting the difficulties of the case. After a short discussion the committee was agreed to. ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH Earl GREY beggedto_mecorvetearforcoptiaetse and ofa nthye aocor respondence between the S vernmen t of Newfou ndland andy of s the other North American colonies, with respect to any acts passed for giving an excl usive right to the establishment of tele graphic communication between this country and North America to one company; and al.o, copies of any cor• respondence between her Majesty's Government and companies proposing to establish electric telegraphs with respect to the grant to them oft xclusive privileges. The noble earl was understood to say that he moved for those returns because he had been informed that ar rangements bad been sanctioned by her Majesty's Go vernment which conferred on one company a practical monopoly in telegraphic communications between this country and the American centinent! If Ibis were so, he thought it was much to be regretted. (Hear, hear.) The Earl of CARNARVON said there was no objec tion to the first portion of the noble earl's motion ; but he would suggest its amendment by the insertion of the words "or extracts" after the word "copies." It was perfectly true that exclusive privileges had been given to a certain company in relation to the projected telegraphic communication between this country and the provinces of North America; but it was right at the same time to say that the grant was one for which her Majesty's present government were in ao degree responsible. (Hear.) An act had been passed by the legidature of Newfoundland by which it conferred sipon the company the exclusive privileges in question, It was sent home for approval, which he was sorry to say was given to it, rather, as it would appear, by over sight than with any deliberate intention. At all event, in the correspondence which he should lay before their lordships a letter would be found from Sir G. Grey (who 'was then the Secretary), in which he cautioned the governors of the North American colonies against granting any more exclusive privileges. In 1857 a se cond act was passed by the same legislature for the amal gamation of the old companies into that which attempted last year to lay down the Atlantic cable. Teat act wss likewise sent home for approval, and it was also, though not without some hesitation, agreed to by Mr. Labou chore. The same company applied to another local legislature, which agreed to grant it a subsidy of 3001 a year ; and that also had been confirmel. Acts had, moreover, been passed in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. In the first case a petition had been presented to the local legislature, praying either for a subsidy or for exclusive privileges. Mr. Labouchere very properly , said that it was a matter that concerned the local legis tore, and referred it to that body ; but the company did not procure its sanction to any exclusive privileges. An act was, however, passed in Nova Scotia, granting exclusive privileges fur 25 years, but it was refused by Mr. Labouchere. The question was, however, re-opened on the accession of his noble friend to office ; but he had likewise declined to sanction the proposal ; and an order in council to that (fact had within the last few days gone out to the colony. (Hear.) Considering that the whole science of telegraphic communication was still in its infancy, it would be most injudicious to sanction ex clusive privileges which might last fifty years, and which might prove very injurious to the interests both of this country and the colonies themselves. (Hear.) The Earl of DERBY hoped the noble earl would not eress the latter portion of his motion, but would ac cept Lis assurance that the Guverumeut had entered into no engagements except with two companies, the Atlantic and the Mediterranean, and that in neither case it had consented to 6 rant exclusive privileges. There might be some inconvenience with regard to future negotiations if the correspondence was laid on the table. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY was glad to find east the Government had confirmed the decisio❑ of Mr. Labouchere with regard to the act of the Nova Scotia legislature, and that it had also determined to grant ne further monopolies. With regard to the latter part cf his noble friend's motion, he thought that Borne further information should lie given to the house. He presumed that his noble friend intended to allude to toe Austrian scheme for a telegraph between Malta and Alexandria. Now, he (Lord Stanley of Alderley) thought we ought not to allow oar telegraphic commu nication with India—a communication which passed through one of our great military posts—to fall into the hands of any foreign company, which, in the event cf hostilities breaking out, might transmit to our enemies intelligence of the greatest importance. (Hear, hear.) , Supposing, however, that the Government had deter mined to accept the Austrian proposals, he should like to know what answer had been returned to the Sar dinian projectors of a similar scheme, who had offered terms as favourable, or more favourable, than those of Austria? It was his opinion that before any foreign offer was accepted, British capitalists should be invited to lay down the line. The Earl of DERBY was afraid that the late Board of Trade was not in very close communication with the Trea sury, because the arrangement which had been made with the Austrian Government was founded upon a very t la borate Treasury minute which had been left by the col leagues of the noble tort. (Laughter.l o:re of th 3 stipule ti nu was the Government should have complete poWer to lay down any further telegraphic lines between Malta and Alexandria, and that it shoul I have the most com plete control over the telegraphs. (Hear, hear.) Lord REDESDALE thought it right to remind the Lowe that when the bill for the telegraph between Ire land and Newfoundland, both portions of her Majesty's dominions, was before their lordships last year, he bad pointed out that a portion of the guarantee was contri buted by the United States, and that he had suggested whether our different North American provinces ought not rather to be invited to make up the sum ? Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY said that when the late government left office the arrangement with the Austrian company was not concluded, bat was still a matter of negotiation. The same was the case with the Sardinian company, and he was anxious to know what answer had been given to it. The Earl of DERBY said the advantages or disad vantages of the two lines had been elaborately discussed in the Treasury minutes of the late government, and reason■ bad been shown in it why a preference should,,be given to the offer of the Austrian company. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY repeated that the matter bad been left unsettled, and he was anxious to know how it Lad been decided— a point upon which the noble earl seemed very reluctant to eatißty him. The Earl of MALIVIESBURY should have been glad to answer the question of the noble lord it he had given him notice of it. The two rival lines which had been referred to were not all the plans that might be proposed. Only two days ago a scheme had been submitted to Liu► for a telegraphic line from Plymouth to Lisbon, from Lisbon to Gibraltar, from Gibraltar to Malta and to Alexandria. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY was glad to bear of that project. Earl GREY . had heard the explanations of the govern ment with regard to the future granting of exclusive privileges with great satisfaction. He agreed with his noble friend that the telegraphic communications with our colonies ought as much as possible to be kept in British handy. He regretted the imprudent bargain which had been made with regard to the Atlantic Tele graph ; and he hoped that the government would en deavour to procure, if possible, some relaxation of the exclusive rights which bad been conceded to that com pany. He also hoped that the Mediterranean scheme mentioned by the noble earl (Lord Malmesbury) would be carried into effect. The motion, amended in accordance with the sugges tions of the government, was then agreed to. THE CAGLIA RI. The E art of A IRLIE postponed till Th ursday the ques tion of which he bad given notice, whether the opinion of the law officers of the crown had been taken by her Majesty's Government on a document dated Naples, November 28, 1857, and intitnled " The Decision of the Commission of Prins and Wrecks in the case of the Sardinian steamer Cagliari ;" and if so, whether her Maiss'y'd Government woull lay a copy of such opinion ou the table of the house ? Also, whether any answer had been returned by her Majesty's Government to a note addressed by ►he Mai gain d'Azeglie to the Earl of Malrnesbury, dated March 22, 1858, and enclosinz a oommunication from Couut Cavour to Count Gropfl dated March 8, 1858 Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMON S. .„ x TER The SPEARICII took the chai r at four o'cl ES ock.DAY.) ABOLITION OP Catritca-RATES. Mr. PULLER gave notice that hes e hould, o n Tues day, '27,-,h April, move that th e h ue etlne6day the 280, resolve itself into a committee of the house, to consider the expediency of ptoviding for the whold repair of the church and maintenance of churchyards, otherwise than at present by church-rates. DANUBIAN PRINCIPALITIES. Mr. GLADSTONE inquired . of her Majesty's G o ., verament whether it was intended to lay papers on the table at this period on the sulject of the union of the , Danubian Principalities, in 'conformity with the dente 'ration of the First British Plenipotentiary at the Con ferences of Paris in .18561 - • - L The CEANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the THE SUN, result of the investigation of the commissio❑ on the sub :;ect of the union of the Danubian Principalities would submitted to the contemplated Conference at Paris, and until that had been done it was not in his power to place the papers on the table. FREEDONI OF ARREST IN IRELAND Mr. HATCHELL asked the Attorney-General for Ireland, whether it is the intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce a bill this session to abolish the privilege of freedom from arrest at present enjoyed by official debtors in Ireland, in accordance with the recommendation of the Dublin Chamber of Commerce ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said to such bill was in contemplation by her Majesty's Govern ment. NORTH AUSTRALIAN EXPEDITION. Mr. SCLATER-BOOTH asked the Secretary for the Colonies whether the scientific results of the North Australian expedition would be published, and in what form ? Lord STANLEY said that no arrangements had been made for publishing the results of the North Australian expedition. Copies of the papers had been furnished by the Geographical and Botanical Society, and another portion of the results of the expedition had been sent to the British Museum. GOVERNMENT OF INDIA BILL (No. 2.) Viscount GODERICH asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it was still his intention not to withdraw the Government of India Bill ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he thought it more consistent, on the whole, that the on ginal understanding on the bill should not be departed from, and that the bill should be suspended until the discussion had taken place on the resolutions he should have the honour of introducing on 1161 onday next. (Hear, hear.) He saw no reason for departing from that understanding. (Hear, bear.) Viscount GODERICH said on Monday, when the right hon. gentleman made his motion with regard to these resolutions, he should oppose it, and take the sense of the house on it. (Hear, hear.) CHURCH RATES AND INDIA. Sir J. TRELAWNY said that as he was determined to take the sense of the house o❑ church-rates, he hoped the Government would give him a day for that purpose. (Hear, hear.) , Lord J. RUSSELL sail he thought the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer was in el ror in saying that an understanding had been come to to suspend the Bill N 0.2 for the government of India. It was his impression that the right hon. gentleman at the end of a former short conversation in answer to a question from the lion. baronet the member for Marylebone stated that he did not mean to withdraw it, but to keep it in sus pense, and wait until the house bad decided on the re solution. He had beard with great regret that declare tion---(ciear, hear) —but he considered it was the decla ration both of the right honourable gentleman and his colleagues, and not as arising from any undertaking on the part of the house. He (Lord J. Russell) submitted to him, and also to those who acted with him as colleagues, although he had certainly concurred in his (L rd John Russell's) opinion that the bast mode of di,cussing this subject was by resolution. (Hear, hear.) He believed the introduction of a bill and keeping it in suspense by the same Government nee a very unusual course, and he therefore trusted the right hon. gentleman would not adopt the course he had stated. He (Lord J. Russell) could not imagine that any resolution the house 'night agree to would at allju tte Government in proceeding wit't ti e bid in its present shape, because be behaved the house were opposed to the principle of electing by a parliamentary constituency to seats in an executive governtnent. (Hear) Her Majesty's Government ought to take one of two courses, either propose the resolu tions and act on them, o r withdraw the present bill. After some remarks from Mr. NEWDEGATE in reference to church-rates, Sir E. PERRY asked whether instructions had been sent to India that terms of amnesty, including protection to lefe and property and full toleration in matters of re ligion, should be held out to the inhabitants of Oade, excepting in gross cases of heinous crimes ; and, if no such instructions bad been sent, whether in the opinion of her Majesty's Government it was not expedient to do so Mr. RICH called attention to the mutinous sepoys, and said some inducement should be held out to them to return to their allegiance to the governineut of the Eas;, India Company. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, in reply to the last two questions, instructions bad been sent to India to the effect that, consistently with the fulfilment of the due calls of justice, the claims of pro perty in India and the rihte of the people should be respected. (Rear, hear.) He believed that in giving such directions the Government were taking a course consonant with the feelings and wishes of the country. With respect to the question of the hon. member for Tavistock, whether the Government would be able to give a day to the bill for the abolition cf church rates, he must say that he agreed with the hon. member in think ing it a subject which had claims on the attention of the house, and if he thought that by giving a day for going, into committee on the bill he should aid in the settle ment of the question, he would gladly do so. But he could not bring himself to believe that going; into com mittee on that bill a out(' lead to so desirable a result. He quite believed that a majority cf the house was in favour of a settlement of this question, and he would have preferred, instead of giving a day to go into com mittee on the bill itielf, to have asked leave that her Majesty's Government might bring in a bill on the sub jsct. (Cheers.) If he did not pledge himself to take such a course, it was solely because of the pressure of public business. He thought, however, that the pr po sition brought forward by Mr. Puller on Wednesday Let was one well worthy the attention of the houe, aA be should be very glad if the principle of that proposition could be brought to a fair discussion before them. He took that opportunity of apologising to the noble lord the member for West Riding f,r the short reply he had given to the noble lord's question. When he gave that reply he was not aware that the Government of India Bill actually stood on the orders of the day. He thought it had been put off for a considerable per,od. It was certainly his intention that it should be. It certainty had been his wish before any other measure had been in • troduced on the subject to have bad an opportunity of vindicating the general policy of that bill. The house would recollect, that when it was introduced he confined himself strictly to the statement of its plan, and offered no argument on the details of the measure. He thought that it was better, however, to take a decision on the resolutions, and afterwards introduce a bill founded on it. His reason for keeping the bill oa the order was to defend those parts of it that had been attacked, and had not been answered. He did not per sist with the bill in the form on the paper, but if the resolutions he should support sere carried, be should introduce a bill on them. Lord PALMERSTON sail he thought the course proposed now by her Atjesty's G.)vernment the only one open for them to take. He would not discuss the propriety of proceeding by re3olutiims first, or by bid. The resolutions in committee must be the principles on which the future bill must he drawn. Mr. BRIGHT thought the course now pursued the most convenient in the present awkward position of her Majesty's Government. With regard to church rates, he assured her Majesty's Government the country were determined to have the question settled, and urged them to fix a day for that purpose. He had no desire to change Government, and wished to see the present Govern ment in office so long as they would pass useful measures for the country. (Hear, hear.) He asked her Majesty's Government to reconsider the measure—reconsideration was the best thing a Government could do, for it often happened that "second thoughts were best." (Hear.) Mr. V. SMITH asked her Majesty's Government to lay on the table the instructions sent to India, referred to by the Chancellor of the Esc:het:per ? He hoped the instructions were accompanied by admiration of the conduct of her Mak sty's Government as it greatly de served, though their conduct had been improperly as sailed by the right hnn. member for Droitwitcb. Sir J. PAKINGTON said that when a vote of thanks to the Governor-General of India was given ho consi • dered his conduct hypothetically—(laughter)—being based on the memorial from Calcutta, without Lord Canning's answer. Since then the Government bad re ceived Lord Canning's answer to it, and in almost if not in every instance his answer was satisfactory, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY suggested it would be better to drop both the India bill.; now before the house. The motion for adjournment till Monday was then agreed te. WAYS AND MEANS. On the motion for going into committee of ways and means, , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he had no intention of implying in what he said relative to the instructions that bad been sent out to Lord Canning that it implied any censure on his conduct. The house then went into committee, when the follow ing resolution was agreed to without discussion and with loud cheers :—" That towards raising the supply granted e to her M a j es t y, a ll d raug ht i or or d ers f it t h e pay 'ot of any sum o f money to t h e b earer on d eman d , w hi c h being n drawn upon any b an k er or any person or persons acting as a banker,banker withinand h 5 miles residing I or placetrans actin gwhere , draughts b u suchs i i'e ag of f a or orde rs are issuer ofthe are now exempt stamp duty, shall b e chargeable with the stamp' from dutyi one penny fur every such draught or order ' ° The house resumed. ' SUPPLY. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Captain VIVIAN complained that the Secretary of War was departing from the usual practice of the house in not making an explanatory statement of the army estimates before proceeding to take the votes, and quoted from a speech of the present Chancellor of the Exchequer in J uu . 1859, in support of his objection. Thless som e explana tion were given the jealousy which prevailed in the public mind in regard to military matters would be str engthened, the woorpo s iniolonog71:11 through abroadugh by that the the m ilitary Gove rnment mates iu order to avoid discussion. Upon the subject cf barrack accommodation and the b wrack arrangeahnts which had attracted much attention of late, and upon which an elaborate report had recently been publi,hed, the public bath exceedingly anxious. There were many per sons b in and out of the house who were by no means satisfied with the state of our national defenc.is, and it was of con siderable importance th .t the Government shoule --xplain their views and intentions in this respect' If di , eln: bodiment of the militia was also a matter which attracted considerable attention, and in reference to which some statement from the Minister for War was desirable. In conclusion, he appealed to the hon. and gallant general (Peel) if he was not at present prepared to make an ex planatory statement, .to put off the remaining army esti mates until he was. Mr. DRUMMOND (who as usual was very ind istinctly heard) rem ar k ed that this was the first time within his memory that the house had proceeded almost to the end of the army estimates without any statement having been made by the rasponsible minister explanatory of the state of the national defences or the ends and objects for which the force asked for was required. It was said the other LONE ON, SATURDAY E V EfIVIN"G, APRIL - 24, 1-858 day that this was the age of coups-de-main, and coups-de main were much the same in one country as another. They had one on the 14th of last February, when the country thought they bad the strongest Government that had existed since the time of Mr Pitt, but woke up on the 15th and found they had no Government at all. Things changed fast in these days, and as from hints which he had just heard from the other sid e h e lir eriels t he perceived at least a tenlency on the part of the house to take upon itself the functions of the execativo, he thought it might not be out of place to ask what was the amount of force by which we were to be defended, what was its destina tion, and what the general arrangements were for placing it in the most effective condition ? He objected to standing armies, considering them to be the great curse of Europe at the present moment. They not only drained the strength and wealth of tee country from the right direction to the wrong, but provoked the same evils in all neighbouring countries. (Hear.) That was not all ; it re-acted upon us in another way. Every invention for the destruction of mankind which was made or adopted in one of those foreign countries we were obliged to take up also. For instance, some years ago the Americans built a large class of ships, as large as our 64's, which they called frigates —and when the war broke out, taking them to be frigates, our Government very stupidly sent out frigates which were not much more than half their size to meet them. The consequence was that great loss and discredit befel our navy. We were therefore compelled to increase the size of our ships. It was the same with the Mir i 3 rifle. We were obliged to follow their lead in the adoption of that weapon. Now he was told that America was building war ships as large as the Leviathan ; and for what ? For the servi..e of America ? Certainly not. But did they suppose that there was no power in Europe that would buy them? The other day he saw an account of another new invention—a double-barreled rifle ; of course we must have them too. An extraordinary gun had been invented at Newcastle, anti we should doubtless have to introduce that. There was another thing : if these large standing armies were kept up, you must give them the means of fighting ; for, like a pack of hounds, if you kept them shut up, and did not give them blood sometimes, they were not worth a farthing. (Hear, hear.) Standing armies must have war, for it was the tr a d e they lived by, and it was in their interest to do all they could to promote it. He remembered a story of a party who, dining at the Thatched House, heard a great noise in the room overhead, and on sending for the waiter and inquiring what it was all about, were answered, " Oh, it's only a party of physicians who have been dining upstairs, and they are now drinking the low fever with three times three. (I laugh.) Aud the soldier, in the same way, was always ready to hail that which was the greatest curse to the rest of inankind as his best friend. There was one large portion of the population of every continental nation that was ever anxious for war, and ready to do all in its power to provoke it. But, beyond that, he could give them proof of what ho believed a large class of per sons but little suspected— namely, that of all people in the world the English were the most hated on the Continent. What was the cause he would not attempt to explain, but the fact was so. Yet, knowing all this—knowing, as we ought to know, how we were hated, we were nevertheless going on from day to day irritating our nearest neigh bours, and insulting them in public and iu private. This was habitual with us, but did aa °suppose they would stand it ? (Hear, and a laugh.) We kept a den of assassins, who were let loose upon our neighbours as opportunity offered. Of course, we were entitled to have any amusements we liked, hut it was well to remember what they cost. But it was said foreign Governments had no just cause of complaint against us in this matter. But was it so ? We were in this like Nell Gwyunes fa t lan, who did rot mind the thing of which he was charged, but was very much annoyed at being told of it. (Hear, and a laugh.) It must be recollected that this den of assassins we were thus upholding and pro tecting in this country was no new people. They were the hereditary descendants of those who first began the same game in 1793—those who began by declaring that they would make war upon every people in Europe who did not as they had done—kill their king. In 1839 a very remark able French State paper was issued, in which it was stated " The assassination of kings in general, and of him in particular whom France has placed upon the throne, is preached by those persons as a sacred duty. And the idea of the Government which is reserved for France, and by which they meant to redress the abuses of monarchy, is the republic of 1793 and the reign of ter] or." In the fol lowing year there was found upon the unhappy man who had just been executed secret instructions given to Lim from this country, which really meant nothing less than assassination; and it was said, " We know you can't get arms ; they won't let you have arms ; then let each man make use of his knife and assassinate a sentinel, and thus you will get ernes. Let the country, however, continue to encourage this den of assassins if it pleased, only let them remember what they would have to pay for it in the end. In 1819 a body of these men went to Malta, and Mr. Hume made a complaint to the Colonial Minister—Lord J. Russell—he believed—one of these people having been sent away from the island by the Governor. Iu his answer the noble lord called them itinerant revolutionists, whom the Government would not allow to remain at Malta. For his (Mr. Drummond's) part, he could not understand how, consistently, the Government could allow them to re main anywhere else. In 1855 one of those persons wrote a letter to the Queen so grossly insulting that there wag hardly any passage fit to quote, and he referred to it merely to show that there was one uninterrupted course going on from year to year, and that in short these men were purely what might be called political Thugs. Did we suppose that the Emperor of the French would allow us to go on harbouring these people here ? He was not standing up as the protector of the Emperor of the French, but he entreated the house to have the common sense to put this country in such a state of defence that we might at least be able to defy those we persisted in insulting. ( Hear.) So far as he knew, the conduct of his Imperial Majesty to wards this country had always been frank and open, and he knew he lied said " it is neither my interest nor incli nation to make war upon you ; but this danger I see—you may irritate my people and my army to such an extent that they may be so strong that I cannot keep them back." (A laugh.) The bon. gentletna. a opposite laughed—long might he laugh in ignorance —but, nevertheless he hoped there were others present who took a cams and serious view of the question. He was not suggesting that a great standing army should he kept up —far from it ; he thought that in all probability we had kept up too large a standing army --but he wished to show that we possessed within our selves the power of effectual defence. He would not weary the house bygoiog into diet till of this power—but of course he meant the militia. He complained that this force was not called out, and asked if the officers were not kept to gether how Was the staff to be kept in, an effective state. The Lord-Lieutenant of every county ought to have full information of the force which at any time he could call into action, and of the number of waggons an I horses available at a moment's natio,' for service. These arrange ments should be made at once, and not left until it was too late. We could hardly hope to maintain friendship with other powers while we took no steps to put down those who preached the right of murdering kings in the abstract - -(a laugh)—for that was the defence the other day. While we kept people here to preach that doctrine, depend upon it, if the opportunity offered, all the sove reigns of Europe would join against us - -and serve us right. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) We had attacks i a great people. Much had been said about the doctrine of Civic Romanus ; but the doctrine we were now contending for was a great deal worse—it was the doctrine of Lingua Ito menus—the right to preach doctrines utterly subversive of the governments of other countries, and utteily subversive of peace and order. But whatever we did in this respect he advised the house at all events to take care that our moms of defence were effective. (Hear, hear.) General FEEL understood the appeal made to him was that he should make some general statement in explana tion of the estimates, and being too sensible of the indul gence he had experienced at the hands of the honk) to op pose himself to their wishes, he would make that statement before asking for the next vote. There was no wish to hurry through the army estimates, and every opportunity would be afforded for the fullest discussion. Mr. HORSMA.N observed the complaint was that the hon. and gallant officer was departing from the established practise cf moving these estimates without making an ex planatory statement. Mr. SMYTHE complained of the summary and arbi trary manner in which certain regiments of militia had been disembodied. Last autumn a number of regiments had been embodied, and the commanding officers expecting that the same notice of disembodiment would be given as at the close of the war, viz., three months, took great pains to get their regiments up to a state of efficiency and discipline; but so far as his own command went he received an order about a week ago from Gen. Scarlett, accompanied by a letter stating that Government had resolved to disembody sixteen regiments, and that which he (Mr. Smythe) com manded and another in the same district were to be disem bodied by the lst of May. Oninquiry he found that those regiments were selected for disembodiment which had not contributed their quota of volunteers to the line—viz., 17 per cent. on their respective strengths. But his regiment hail, by the 13th April, contributed more than its quota, and he found that others which had not contributed their quota of recruits had been retained. After referring to the hardship of sending the men to their homes at so short a notice, which afforded them no time fur communicating with their friends and obtaining employment, he asked the Government to reconsider their decision with the view- of diminishing the number of regiments to be reduced. If they persisted in the order that had been given, he b.ilieved that not one-fourth or one-fifth of the men would be forth coming when they were wante I. Lord BURGHLEY also urged the Government to recon sider their decision. Col. B. KNOX said that the whole onus of disembody ing the militia, which it was the intention of the late Go vernment to have done, ought not to be laid on the present Minister for War. The militia had hem retained longer than they might have been, in the hepe that many of the men would be absorbed in the regular army. He trusted that the militia would not be rendered disc,ntented by similar treatment to that which they had receieed after the late war. They ought not to bs sent to their homes at a time when they could not procure work, en I the Scotch regiments ought to have been disembodied before the time when labourers were hired in Scotland. As the present Minister for War did not frame the estimates, ho ought not to be called on to make a statement of the grounds on which they wore founded. Mr. HORSILAN explained that be had only said he hoped the right hon. and pliant gentleman would make the usual statement which was made by the head of his department. Col. NORTH had hoped that the Government would have retained the services of tho militia. He had com manded a regiment of militia at. the ch se of the last war, and he had brought before the house the conduct of the Government to.vards the militia, the abrupt manner in which they had been treated, and how little regard was ahows to those regiments who had volunteered;to servo and had served abroad. A soldier to be of any value must be disciplined, and that could not be do:e in a short tame; and therefore he thought the country would be benefited, ' if instead of disembodying 16 regiments of militi . the rtrongth of these regiee,nts was only . edeced so as to ' form hereafter a nucleus for raising them to their full force. Mr. RICH hoped that the Minister f ,r War would enter s t e o r i i. t )nl e y er o u n i, t i h na e „ gantdierel fillingctuelsltpiotnhoef militia i ti g e riar rrn i y a . refer: e r b i eel lievtd that rAurus in the War-office - wou'd show thA the militia had not proved so fruitful a nurse y for the line as had been exp, a ed. Desertions fi ter the militia were very f r r , e g q i tuneenutt, a a f n t d er a tah s t lrt ioot o ub f se t rt r ,o ad e was made of enlisting in one ment were not ewhileulist in tlt e t h il e ' l e i t n line. If ' n l i f n the e:ch militia l..i- Iwas called em leeenanently, as i t was i n th e h e t w e r, it would be an eff,cti% e 'force, but it w‘ It'd not be so on the system now pursued. Ile auggested that soldiers o: the line leaving after tea yours' service ought to have 61. a ( by given them to enrol themselves in a kind of res. ry d force, which could be called out on as emergency, and would afford an ex..ellent force of experienced soldiers. If we were to have a militia, he thought a local militia , was a better reserve than that which now existed. I He hoped the Minister for War would either go into the lli e , I, est question of the militia him self or let a committ ee o . f . the house be appointed to ascertain h ow the arm y co nrl how we Gould hs, 4 . e bbeetrteererreniseerdve f romf orce th i e n Sir DE L. EVANS said he believed that the militia t i t e ilitia county.at furnished a very considerable number of men to the line, and if there was a necessity for it they would come as readily into the line as they did in the last war. An hon. member bad expressed his alarm at trusting to the militia in case of invasion, but he (Sir De L. Evans) would have the greatest confidence in that force in such a case. Ho could not find that fault with the militia which some hon. tnem ben did. It w:- L i a constitutional force, and was found to be very efficient at the time of the Peninsular war. He regretted that the Minister of War bad not taken warning trona the objections that were made in so many quarters to the conduct of the late Government when they disembodied the militia after the late war. There was a mutiny in a re giment in Ireland, tha men of which had their coats taken off their backs, and were dismissed without a farthing in their pockets. The present Government said that the mili tia was called out not by them but by the late Government but he maintained that the present Government was bound legally and morally, as well as by p o li cy, t o act i n t h e same way towards that force as if they had raised it themselves. The subaltern officers of the militia had been put to great expense six months ago, in equipping themselves, and it was hard upon them to be put out of employment. It was impolitic to treat a force like this with neglect, having re gard to its usefulness as a means of securing the safety and the defence of the country. He did not think that any mi litary functionary in the Government had allowed the step ~f disembodying the militia; it was less the act of the Mi nister of War than the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who sought to eke out his cheeseparing budget by getting rid of 16 regiments of militia. The militia force at present, looking to the recruits it had obtained, was in a better con dition than the line. Lord PALMERSTON was glad to bear the testimony borne by the hon. and gallant gentleman who had just sat down to the efficiency of the militia force; his testimony was of the highest value, and he was sure that it would not only gratify the militia, but be most satisfactory to the country to have such an opinion from. so high en authority on the subject But he (Lord Palmerston) must protest against the doctiiue, so currant iu the house and the coun try, that the chief object of the militia was to supply re cruits to the line. lie hold that to be a mistake, and a per version of the object fur which the militia was established. It was very creditable to the militia when they supplied recruits to the line, and we ought to be vete , thankful to the officers and the men who made such sacrifices as they did when they volunteered into the line, for it was obvious that it was the bast men who went into it, and it was a sacrifice of the feelings of the commanding officer to part with them. In momenta of emergency it was highly desirable for the country and creditable to the militia force that they should enlist in the line ; but it ought to be remembered that the object of a militia was that we should have a dormant force ready to be called out on a sudden emergency, and fit to take its part on that erner iency. 'We might be attacked by a force larger than the 1,0,00) men of the regular army in this country, audit was important that we should have 80,000, 90,t00, or 103,00 J men of the militia, officered, equipped, armed, clothed, and to a certain extent disciplined, and ready to be called out at a fortnight's notice for the defence of the country. He wished to impress on the house not to judge of the militia force by the number of recruits it had given to the line Still they had furnished a great many men to the army during the late war, and now since they had been called out they had furnished a largo number of recruits to the line. The state of the case now was this —when last year we were obliged to send a large force to India, in fact the grater part of the force in this country, the Govern ment told the house, and the house felt the force of it, that it was not safe to leave the United Kingdom stripped of all armed force, and that a ready means of supplying the deficiency in our army was by calling out the militia. The Government was urged to call out the whole of the militia, bet they only called out a part. It was understood that they were called out for the emergency, and when by the progress of recruiting, so honourable us it had proved to have been to the feeling of the country, the regular army was restored to its efficiee.cy, it was naturally the in tention of the present, as it was that of the late govern ment to disembody such of the militia as were no longer necessary ; and when it was said that it was the Chancellor of the Exchequer who forced this stop on the head of the army, it must be remembered that if a larger number of men were kept in arms than the revenue enabled you to pay, two courses only were open—you must either in crease the revenue or reduce the number of men. He certainly thought th a t if th e a lt erna ti ve b e f ore hi m was the keeping up an excessive number of men or erecting works for the defence of the country, such as the fortifica tion of our dockyards and the providing barracks for our troops, he had no doubt that the wisest application of the revenue would ba, not to keep up a great number of men in arms, but to apply it to the erection of defensive works. Mr. B. JOHNSTONE did not complain of the disembo diment of the militia, which it was understood would take place when the temporary purpose for which they were called out was answered, but he contented that it was never intended that it should be carried out in the way in which it hail been done, especially in the manner in which it was applied to his regiment, which would be sent home at a time when it was impossible for the men to obtain work in Scotland. If the matter turned on a financial question, it might be arranged to the satisfaction of the militia, and the 10,000 men which it was desired to reduce might be reduced by sending the married rnen of the dif ferent regiments horns, and not by breaking up the whole force. He had received an assurance from the Secretary for War that hie regiment was not to be disembodied, and yet, to his surprise, it was one of the first that received the order. General PEEL said that, after the appeal ma le to him on behalf of the militia, he must bo allowed to state the grounds on which the disembodiment had taken place. The noble lord opposite (Palmerston) had fully stated the ac tual necessity there was, looking to the terms on which it had been embodied, that a certain number of the militia should be disembodied. Twenty•five thousand men of the militia were called out in September to fill the gap caused be the number of regular regiments which wore sent to India. The rank and file of the army in the United King dom was thou 49,000. When the present government came into office the militia numbered 30,000 rank and file, an , l the army 70,000, co that there wan an increase of 30,600 rum b ayond what was expected. Only 150,000/. was voted for the militia; it was paid to 30,030 mon of which that force was composed, and there being no further sum ap plicable to that force it became necessary to disembody some of them. The principle on which it was proposed to proceed was to retain in an embodied state those regiments which lied given their quota of men to the line, :lad yet remained in full force, and secondly, to retain those who had given most of their quota to the line, and also remained effective, and to disembody all the others. He was respon sible for that areangement. Almost every colonelof militia had adiressed him on the subject, and he should have beets happy to have obliged them by not disembodying their re gimests, but he was bound to acton the principle which had been laid down. He senate the Horse Guards fora list of the regiments embraced hy that principle, and without looking at it he ordered it to be acted on. Complaints had been made of the suddenness with which the disembodi ment had been carried out ; but militia were paid up to the first of evrey month, and if they were not disembodied by the let of May there would be great confusion in the ac counts. Thera was another object in view, which was to keep up the number of troops which ha 1 been voted, and which had not yet bean attained. It had been said that ou the last occasion of disembodying the militia at the end of the war, the militia were not well treated. He, however, hail been liberal, for he had given to the of eers and the medical staff the same gratuity which they received when they had been embodied for a much longer time during the war; and he did this on the ground that the expanses they incurred were heavier in peoportion when they were a short time embodied, The men would receive 14 days' pay and their slop clothing, so that they would have 228. in their pockets. Ho had been asked if the Goverement would put a stop to the disembodiment, but he must state that there were some regiments the men belonging to which wore on their roads home already. Any compliment he might pay to the militia would probably not be well received by the colonels, but still he could assure them that no one had a higher opinion of the militia than ha had. He had seen at Aldershott lately regiments of militia which were quite equal to those of the line, and since the order for disem bodiment had been issued he had received an offer from the Royal County Down Militia to form themselves into a second battalion of a regiment of the line, the officers un dertaking to produce the thousand men necessary to make up the battalion. He had not been able to take into con sideration this patriotic offer, as the number of men and battalions of the line Was already fixed in the esti mates. lie believed they might easily raise a large force for the army from the militia. This raised th) question which had been mooted by the noble lord opposite whether the militia ought to be a nursery for the line. He (Gen. Peel) bought the present system wanted revision and investiga tion. He believed that it would be found in many in stances the numerical force of militia regiments as stated was fal:acious. He intended to endeavour to melee the present militia staff more effective. When militia regi ments were not called out fur three years their staff be came inefficient. He had Stated to the medical officers of militia that ha could not add to the permanent staff of the militia. The duty that staff now pal-formed was to recruit for the line ; but he thought that it might be male useful in drilling the men they recruited ; for now, when there was a great number of recruits coming in, they© was a great want of efficient officers to drill and train them. This !night be dens to a great extent by the permanent militia staff. lie believed that it was possible to make the mili tia a most efficient force, and one which would always be looked on with respect. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that in the course of this discussion some charges had been made against him which he could not pass over in silence. One charge was made against him by the hon. and gallant mem ber for Westaeineter, which appeared to him one of the most uejustitiable an I unauthorised charges ever made in Parliament. He understood that hon. and gallant gentle man to say that the disembodiment of the militia was not caused by the Minister of War, nor had any member of the Government whoborea military cha-acter recommended it., but that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in order to secure the success of his cheeseparing budget, had been the cause of it. Whether the budget deserved that epithet he would leave it to the house to decide, and he was not about to defend it. But nothing could be more unjust than the charge of the hon. and gallant officer. The decision with regard to the militia had been arrived at not on any specific plan, but having regard to the general revenue of the coun try, aid if the hon, and gallant gentleman had reflected on what had passed in this respect he mast have felt how un justifiable such a charge was. He might have remembered that the estimates were those of the predecessors of the Present Gove:nment, and that the vote for the militia was 1.50,0e01., which would pay :30,003 men only for two moithe, and the late Secretary for War had frankly given notice of his intention to disembody the militia. The lion. and gallNnt gentleman, knowing this, ought to have felt that the ihar go h e ma d e aga i ns t him (Hr. Disraeli) was no t cue which ought to have fallen from him . (hear, hear, hoar ) With regard to the disembodying of the occasioned th em th e greates t pejo. No one could more the Government teal taken a ceuree which had ttisa,the militia reg;inente sad the inestimable s.r vi;e3 they had done t, the country. He thought it was highly desirable that the militia should be called out every year, avid he :.greed with the noble lord (Palmerston) who had addressed the hones with so much generous candour towards the present Goverament, that the militia was not is nursery to the lino but a constitutional force. When questions respecting expenditure were before the house, aid when hon. gentlemen like the bon. and gallant mztu her for Westminster on the hustings were so fond of dila ting on the import:tee° of a wise reduction of expenditure, be would ade the ho use t o cons id er how it was possible to carry into effect that w i se re duction of e xpenditure, how it Wes possi6le to maintain a prudent economy in tho ad ministration of our national reeources, if we do not take a general view of all our powers. HoweVer painful might be the decision to which the Government had come, he want of appreciation of the inestineable services which had gallant g e ntlemen would acquit him of any b h e a i a l d by the militia. (Hear.) • • Sir DE LACY EVANS sai i his observations were not dictated by any want of respect fur the Chancellor of the Exchequer. All he meant to convoy was the general im pression that the army estimates were too much governed by financial considerations. The subject then dropped. THE CAGLIART. Mr. KINGLAKE postponed his motion with respect to the capture of the Cagliari and her crew. TUE LAND TRANSPORT CORPS. Lord A. VANE TEMPEST then rose to call the atten tion of the honee to the allegations coa tensed in a petition presented to the house from the officers of the Land Trans port Corps on the 11th of August, 1857, and to move for the appointment of a select committee to inquire into the question of the petitioners' complaints that they had not received the rate of half-pay which they state they are entitled to claim. The noble lord observed that the Land Transport Corps, which was formed in 1855, was enlisted under the most unfortunate circumstances, for it was not acknowledged by the military department, but only by the civil department, and on its disbandment at the end of the war the troops were not discharged as soldiers of the army. A committee which was appointed to inquire into the matter reported that the corps from the time of its crea tion formed a portion of her Majesty's land forces, and Mi. F. Peel, then Under-Secretary at War, stated, in answer to a question, that the officers of that corps would be treated and considered as bona fide officers in the army. On that assurance a large number of non-commis sioned officers wore induced to accept commissions and on the reduction of the corps they applied either to be trans ferred to the Military Train or to receive their proper half pay as officers. They complained that the half-pay which had been awarded to them was a special half-pay not au thorised by the regulations of the service—that it had been fixed not by the military departments, but by the Lords of the Treasury. The usual half-pay for a captain in the cavalry was 7s. 6d. per day, but by the special rate the amount was fixed at ss. The usual half-pay for a lieute nant was 4s. Bd., but the special half-pay was 3s. 6(1., but the cornets in the Land Transport corps only 3s. The dif ference, so far as the CO LID try was cone irned, was trifling, but it was of great importance to the men who had fought so gallantly for their country, and were now unable to maintain the position in which they had been placed. Amongst the applicants there w e re seven who had recei ve d a medal for distinguished services, two who had received the cross of the Legion of Honour, and eleven who had been wounded in the service. There was another point to which he wished to call the attention of the house. Her Majesty, in expressing her approbation of the conduct and by every of the army in the Cy imea, directed that a number of commissions should be distributed, and on a represen tation by General Decree that the Artillery were not men tioned, an order eras made that they should be included, and Lord Harding() said the commissions in the Lend Transport Corps were to be considered equal to commis sions in the regular army. On this condition 31 individuals accepted commissions tu the Land Transport Corps_ The ,Lpplicaets whose cause he was advocating consisted of two daises. There were 12 deserving officers who left civil ap pointments or the militia. The case of Captain Stepheus was especially hard, for he had served tun years in the army in China and other parts of the world. Having obtained his discharge, he entered the Land Transport Corps as a private, and from his energy and zeal was placed in a responsible position, and raise 1 more than 2,000 recruits, On his return he was placed on half-pay. The twelve officers who came from civil life had been treated in a different way from those who wore promoted from the ranks. They had been placed on half-pay at, the regular rate settled by the War-office warrant of 1851, but it was only a temporary half-pay, which would terminate at the end of two or three years, and they would then be left, without resources. There were 60 or 70 non-commissioned officers who had been promoted from the ranks, who sought to have justice done to them, and who wore equit ably entitled to the proper half-pay. He trusted the right hon. gentleman at the head of the war department would see justice done to the claimants, and that the committee would be grants 1. (Hear, hear.) Mr. CO iVAN, in seconding the motion, raid that a peti tion bad been entrusted to him by Captain Handyside, who after 18 years service accepted the offer of a lieutenancy in the artillery, and who complained with great justice of the treatment to which he had been subjected, stating that the pledge which had been hold out to him had not been re deemed. Great as was the demand for reduction of ex penditure, he so as sure the people of this country did not desire to see their gallant defenders treated in a shabby and stingy manner. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. PAKINGTON said his right hon. friend the Secretary for War had no objection to the appointment of a committee, but as the adoption of the amendment would have the effect of preventing the house going into com mittee of supply, he trusted it would be withdrawn, and that the noble lord would be content with the nomination of the committee on a future day. Sir J. RAMSDEN cordially concurred in every word that had been said in praise of those officers whose case had been brought before the house, and was quite sure that neither the Government nor the house wished to treat them in an improper manner. The majority of them were non-commissioned officers who wore promoted from the ranks to be officers of the Laud Transport Corps in 1854. In 1856 the corps was disbanded. These officers had scarcely served for two years, and ac cording to the war regulations were not entitled to more than a temporary pension. The late Secretary for War, fi ,ding that he could not do more than grant a temporary half-pay, at a reduced rate, for two or three years, and considering that their services entitled them to greater consideration, laid their case before the Lords of the Treasury, who consented, on Lis strong and urgent recommendation, to allow them to relinquish their half pay for permanent half-pay at a slightly diminished rate. It had been said that these officers wore not treated in the same way as the other non-commissioned officers who were promoted from the ranks. If they had been so treated they would have received a higher rate of pay, but it would only have been temporary, and at the end of three years it would have ceased altogether. If the committee should be appointed they would find that the late Secretary for War had obtained for them the best treatment in his power. (Hear.) Mr. P. O'BRIEN thought these officers had more than a financial objection to make, for they might have been ttansferred to a position in which they would have been recognised, and would haveraceived their frill half-pay. Mr. W. WILLIAMS thought the matter ought to be left entirely in the hands of the Secretary at War, and that the officers ought to have been provided for by giving them commissions in the regiments of the line. The amendment wad then withdrawn on the underatancl ing that the committee should be appointed on a future clay. gunboats, and going through, with much minutenes., a description of the process of launching each right hon. gentleman. He characterised the whole system as a mis take, such as no one who understood the subject could have made. Unless 100,0001. and upwards was spent, the matter could not be made useful. There was a mud bank which ought to b 3 cleared out at Halsar, and made a receptacle for these boats. Sir C. WOOD said that grcat differences of opinion existed upon the question whether vessels ought to be kept in or out of water. The hon. and gallant officer seemed to think that a mud bank was a good receptacle. (Sir C. NAPIER : " No, no.") (Laughter.) Now, these gunboats were chiefly intended for shallow water, and the object in building them was to have a force calculated to protect our shores. But they would be of great utility elsewhere-- both in China, in Australia, and in many other places where vessels drawing but a small amount of water were required. He believed that the boats drawn up at Halsar would keep better than if they were afloat. The dry rot had shown itself slower in the vessels hauled up than in those in the Mediterranean. It was very desirable to get rid of the gun-boats from blocking up Portsmouth harbour, and hence a plot of land belonging to the Admiralty had been used for the purpose of making slips for drawing up these vessels. To have constructed a wet cock would have been to enter upon a work of great extent—a work which would have required a large grant of money. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE characterised these gun-boat slips as ono of the most extr aor di nary id eas w hi c h ever entered the mind of man. The place in which these slips were placed would have made an admirable basin. In stead of this, Haslar Hospital had been interfered with ; the neighbourhood had been incommoded by interference with the walls. And all this for a system of machinery which, if it broke—and it was not very well thought of by competent persons—these gun-boats would be useless, for they could not be floated for thrae months. Ho really doubted whether these boats were worth preserving at all. What was wanted in the navy was a light sort of vessel, carrying a commander, and ready to do service in aoy part of the world. A letter had been read from an officer in command of one of those boats, praising his vessel. This was all very well. A man's ship was like his wife—put him into ever such a tub—(loud laughter) and he would speak well of her. After a few words from Sir C. NAPIER, Mr. BRISCOE said the house ought not to pass over in silence the opinions expressed by the hon. and gallant ad miral, and it it was competent to him to do so, he would move that the vote be postponed. As well as he could un derstand the papers, 11,0001. more than had been voted had already been expended; yet only 5,00 Z. was asked for now ; if so, 6 large sum must be still due. Ile begged to move that the vote be suspended. Mr. FITZROY said the hon. member could not move the suspension ; he should move tho omission of the vote. Mr. BRISCOE moved that the vote be struck out. Sir C. NAPIER seconded the motion. Mr. CORRY said nothing had been expended but what had been voted. Sir G. PECHELL said there was great difference of opinion as to this system of drawing up the gunboats. The late Marquis of Angle , ey'syacht was always considered one 'of the best in the Royal Yacht Squadron, yet she was hauled up every winter. It was necessary to take some means to preserve these vessels. The Admiralty was utterly at a loss what to do with them, and it was there this plan was devised. He had suggested last year that a number should be sent to Cuba to act against the slavers, but he was told by the late Admiralty that they w ere utterly unfitted for such service ; yet it now appeared that (hey had proved most efficient in a similar service in China. (Hear, hear) He thought they ought to be told on whose authority this plan at Haslar had been selected. Mr. T. BARING said that last year the house had fully approved of the plan of those slips. It appeared that the apparatus for launching these vessels was not yet com plete, and the present vote was intended to perfect it. The hon. member for West Norfolk said only eight of these boats could be launched in a month. He (Mr. Baring) had wiittea to Captain Dacres, the superintendent of Haslar yard, to ask if that was the case. The answer he gut was, " Thirty of the 60-horse power; there are only eight of the 40 and 20-horse power on the slip, and these might be worked off with the others." If the vote was refused the very object of the hon. members opposite would be de feated. Sir C. NAPIER said there wore only forty boats on the slips now. Where was the money to come from to prep ire a place for the other forty ? Ho thought the vote ought to be postponed for inquiry; the whole plan was wrong. Sir J. PAKINGTON hoped the hon. member for Surrey would not press his motion. He was not responsible for this plan ; it wits utterly the act of the late Govern ment. Ho had lately visited Portsmouth, and found a great difference of opinion amongst naval men on the point. He made every inquiry, and found that at present for eight days of each fortnight two a day could be got off ; and if the present vote was judiciously applied the same could be done every day in the month. These boats had proved most efficient, and demands were now made for them from every quarter. With regard to additional sheds, he would take care that no money was spent until after full inquiry. The original estimate was 7,000/. ; only 51,0001. had been expended. Mr. HORSMAN wished to know whether the sum of 56,0001. would entirely complete the work? Sir J. PAKINGTON understood so. Mr. HORSMAN thought if that was the case, and if this vote would place the whole system in an efficient state, there ought to be no hesitation about granting it ; but if there was any doubt as to whether thi sum would render the machinery complete, he thought it would be better to postpone the vote. Sir J. PAKINGTON had no hesitation in saying that from what he had heard, this sum of 5,0001. was absolutely necessary to render efficient what had already been expended. He was told at Portsmouth that even a smaller sum would enable them to launch the boats at all times of tide. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE sail, even if the launching machinery was as complete as possible, it would be necessary to construct a basin in which to float them. It might be th.at there were demands from all quarters for these ves sels, but that only showed the necessity for providing small vessels; but these gunboats would not do, they were uttsrly unfit for sea—the officers and men were worse off thln in the old 10-gun brigs. Mr. KIRK wished to know where the 11,0)01., which had been expended in addition to the 40,0001. voted, had come from ? Sir J. PAKINGTON said the late First Lord of the Ad miralty might more properly answer the question, as the transaction took place during his tenure of office. He believed the fact was that the Treasury had sanctioned the expen diture of the money before it had been voted by parliament; but it was eventually voted. Sir C. WOOD confirmed this statement. He was glad that the First Lord of the Admiralty agreed with him that these gunboats would keep better when drawn up out of the water than in. No question had been raised about the draught of water, but about the facility of landing They had all been drawn up without machinery, and to say that they could not be drawn down again iu the same way did seem to him to be an extraordinary notion. It was a moot question whether the boats ought to be hauled up or not, but the question for the house to consider was whether, when money had 'been well spent, they chose to expend 5,t1C0/. more to increase the facilities of landing which were not so good as they should be, and which facilities were requisite. In reference to a question by an hon. gentleman as to the order fur discharging the continuous service men, ho had to repeat what he had said before, that there had been no order rescinding the first order. As to what had been said about putting an end to theganboats, and substi tuting another class of vessels, he differed altogether with that view; but he had given orders for the building of three or four small screw vessels to be used in substitution for the gunboats where they were better suited. Sir F. SMITH thought they ought to be satisfied of the effectiveness of these boats before they spent this 5,0001. in providing facilities for hauling them up. Mr. BRISCOE expressed an intention of taking the sense of the house on this vote, which he thought was but the commencement of a much larger expenditure. BENTINCK denied the statement of Sir C. Wool that the money had been well spent. The right hon. gen tleman admitted it to be a moot question whether the boats should be hauled up; if so, why spend this 5,0001. until that question was decided ? The right hon. gentleman also said that these boats were useful vessels. He (Mr. Ben tinck) did not deny it ; but, if so, why not leave them where they would be available for service ? He wished to know whether the MOM was to be the extreme of the ex penditure for this ill-advised measure ? Mr. MACARTRY thonght the vote ought to be post. poned until some better information was before the house. Sir C. WOOD—When Coe report upon the subject was sent to the Admiralty he went down to Portsmouth to make inquiries, and had heard no objection advanced to the plan. Sir J. PAKINGTON understood the intention was to make the existing slip available which would cost 2,0001. or 3,0001., and the rest of the money would b 3 expended in completin g the ways for launching. He could give no as surance that the 5,000/. would be the last farthing required. Lord C. PAGET hoped the vote would not be opposed. It appeared they had forty of these boats hauled up, and that this money was required to provide facilities for launching. Mr. HO RSIIAN observed that the late Board of Admi ralty claimed credit for housing these boats efficiently. It appeared that they had been housed so efficiently that they , could not be unhoused—(a laugh).—and the present Almi ralty found they must spend 5,0001. for that purpose. It appeared to him that if they voted this money they would have to vote a further sum next year. After a few words from Sir C. NAPIER and Mr. BEN TINCM, the committee divided on the omission of the 5,00.1. for gunboat slips— Ayes 26 Noes Majority —193 The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 30,0001. for medicine and medical stores, lonel BOLDERO said that the present vote afforded an opportunity of bringing under the notice of the com mittee the medical condition of the navy. He had fre- quently brought before the house the case of the navy assistant-surgeons. On some occasions he had been suc cessful, and on others he failed. The pay of the assistant surgeons of the army had been raised from 7s. 6d. to 10i. a day. Now he was of opinion that a better educated class of men was required for the navy than for the army, for this reason, that the medical men on land had better opportunities of studying their profession after they l e ft the school than the navy surgeons. The East India Com. paoy and the mercantile mai ine were keen competitors with the navy for surgeons, and therefore it was the duty of his right hon. friend to ascertain how he could obtain the best men for the navy. There was another grievance under which the surgeons of the navy laboured. When made full surgeons in the navy, they were placed on half pay, and spent something like ten years on shore doing nothing. He hoped the light hon. glintlernan would talc; these circumstances under consideration. Sir J. PAK ENGTON agreed with his hon. friend as to the importance of this subject and the necessity of having a com petent staff of surgeons for the navy. He had not had time as yet to consider the subject referred to by his hon. and gallant friend ; but he promised him that the matter should receive his early attention. (Hear, hear.) The vote was then agreed to. On th vote of 41,470/ for miscellaneous services, Mr. FAGAN asked a question wi.h regard to Cork Har bour. Mr. MAGUIRE called the attention of the right hon. gen tl• man to the importance and necessity of making Queens town a harbour of refuge and naval station. Mr. BAGWELL, as a resident at Queenstown, could corro borate what had been said by the hon. member for Dungar von. Every First Lard of the Admiralty for the last 25 years had promised to consider the case of Cork Harbour, but nothing had been done. One improvement had certainly been made, and that was the erection of a pier and so great was the advantage derived from it that he might state that he himself saw one of the largest steamers lying alongside of it, and a regiment of cava , ry was marched down there to em bark for the Crimea, and they actually walked their horses on beard. The harbour of Cork was the great western har. hour of the United Kingdom. Mr. FITZROY said that he must remind the hon. member that he was speaking to a vote which had already passed. Sir C. WOOD said he would strongly recommend the right hon. gentleman the First Lord of the Admi alty to go to Cork Harbour, which was one of the most beautiful in the world. He wished to explain the grounds of the restriction in the charitable contributions of the Admiralty complained of by his hon. friend behind him (Mr. Fagan). There had been such a number of demands made on the sum in question from places which had ostensibly a right to apply, that it was thought best to confine the contributions to places where there were actually naval stations. Sir J. PAKINGiON said the explanation of the right hon. gentleman did n4t tally with the statement of the hon. mem ber for Cork, who said that a considerable part of the sum in question was unappropriated. He .vas not acqnainted with the condition of the fund, and he did not know whether the arrangement mentioned by the right hon. gentleman was not a judicious one, but he would take care to inform himself on the subject, and if he found any injustice existing he would endeavour to remedy it. The vote was then agreed to, On the next vote, 694,148/ . ., for the half-pay, reserved half-pay, and retirement, to officers of the Navy and Royal Marines, Sir G. PECHELL, after some eulogistic observations on the manner in which the First L rd of the Admit alty hal coin. menced the performance of the duties of his office, expressed his gratification at the right hon. gentleman's having taken measures to inquire into the case of a very deserving class of men, the worn-out officers of Greenwich Hospital, and for having given them their half-pay, of which they had been for so many years deprived. This step had given so much satisfwAion that he hoped the right hon. gentleman would give their half-pay to others on the list who were in the same position. He hoped also that in the distribution of his patron age the right hon. gentleman would not confine it to a small clique and to particular families. It was a subject of remark that out of the small number of rear-admirals now employed two of them bore the same name, and were connected with each other. Admiral DUNCOMBE said the hon. and gallant gentleman had alluded to two gallant friends of hie who were now em ployed ; and he would venture to tell the hon. and gallant gentleman that, though the number of rear-admirals employed was so limited, and unfortunately two of t hem bore the same name, they were among the most scientific and able officers in the service, and when he stated that they bore the name of Grey it would be a proof that they were not officers who had thrown away their time. They devoted their whole time to the service, and no more energetic or scientific officers were to be found. Admiral WALCOIT said that the amount of the estimate for the half-pay appear,d heavy. But it should be recol lected that in the war which closed in 1815 the country was obliged to keep up an enormous navy and large fleets, which led to the employment of a large number of officers, many of whom we were now in receipt of half-pay, He would say fa them that in their enforced ret rement they were grateful to their country for that reward which had been afforded to them. It was a debt of honour duo from the nation for E er vices done by the officers who received it. The list of these officers, however, was rapidly diminishing, and would soon close. Mr. W. WILLIAMS drew attention to the extraordinary system of promotion to the rank of admiral. In 1840 there were only 143, and now they numbered 349. The committee ought to express its disapr robation of this reckless system of promotion. When in 1846 200 old captains were placed on th list of retired admirals, it was understood that the num ber of admirals would gradually be decreased ; but instead of that it had gradually increased. There had, within a very short time, been recently added to the list no less than 29 ad. mirals. He believed that there was about an admiral and a half to every vessel in the navy. Mr. CORRY said that what the hon. gentleman called reck less promotion since 1846 had been productive of more good t the service than anything that had ever been done. There were 343 admirals on the list, but they were not meant to be for active service. There were only 100 on the active service list; and the retired list was introduced for the purpose of obtaining younger men in the rank of admiral. The effect of the plan was that a ear tain might now get his flag at the age of 48 instead of 78. The whole cost attendant on obtaining such an advantage was 22,0001., and the whole expense of the half-pay list in the last ten years had been diminished by 38, 000/. After some further conversation, Sir C. NAPIER complained that the reduced list of ad mirals had exceeded the prescribed number of 350. He ob jected to their limiting the admirals to certain families. If fiva rear-admi als were required, two ought not to belong to one family. (Hear, hear.) He wanted to see a little more fair play in the appointment of officers. When a new first lord came into office he always professed to look at mei it ; but they all knew that that was all humbug. (Laughter.) A gallant admiral opposite, and there was no more efficient officer, had almost gone on his knees to the board for ern-. ployment—(Admiral Walcott : I did)—but it was of no use ; he had no Parliamentary influence. (Hear, hear.) After a few words from Admiral DuNcomita, Sir C. WOOD said that if they would insist on 'laving young and efficient admirals, they must provide for the old and infirm ones. Complaint was made that the list of cap tains was too large. A few yeas ago, it was determined that it should be reduced to 350 ; it had net yet be. n brought to that number, butit now stood at 356. The right hon. baronet then referred to some appointments which he had made , in• eluding Sir G. Sey mour, Ad m i ral F. Grey, and Sir Michael Seymour, and contended that they were most efficient officers. He read a letter from Lord L 1 ons to Admiral Grey, bearing testimony to his efficiency. Sir C. NAPIER said he had not questioned the appoint mentaof Sir M. Seymour. He referred to the two Admiral's Grey ; he did not believe that they would have been ap pointed but for the fact that they were brothers-in-law W the late First Lord. (A laugh.) Sir F. BARING defended the existing number of ad. , mirals. The vote was then agreed to. 280,0611., for milit pensions and allow a n ces . Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to some of the items. 110 did not find a single common sailor in the list, and cousiderei that gross partiality had been shown. Agreed to. 9,4811. for civil pensions and allowances. 1501., conveyance of troops. Agreed to. ARMY ESTIMATES. On the first vote being proposed under this head, 21,537/. for the Secretary of State for War and the Commander•in• Chief, Mr: WILLIAMS moved to report progress. General PEEL said this vote was a reduction on WA amount of last year, and hoped that it would be agreed to. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said he should press his motion. The committee divided— For reporting progress Against. The vote was not pressed, and the Chairman reported progress. EXCHEQUER BILLS ( 20 ,911,500/.) BILL. This bill passed through committee. GOVERNMENT OF INDIA (No. 2) BILL. The order of the day for the second reading of this bill W discharged. CHELSEA HOSPITAL AND WATERWORKS EXCHANGE SUPPLY. The houso then resolved itself into committee of supply, Mr. FITZROY in the chair. Oa the vote of 321,8004 being proposed, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges for new works, im provements' and repairs in the naval yards, Mr. W. WILLIAUS complained of the waste of public money in the public dockyards. Mr. P. O'BRIEN wished to call the attention of the First Lord of the Admiralty to the necessity of improving Cork harbour, with a view to the public service. Sir J. PAKINGTON admitted that the subject was worthy of attention, but not having yet visited Cork offi cially he could not give any opi n i on on th e ma tt er . Admiral WALCOI'T complained of the delay in pur chasing the land required for the enlargement of the dock yards, more especially that of Keyham, observing that the delay would no doubt ultimately involve an increased cost. He thought many of the reductions made in the estimates in this department were to be regretted. Sir J. PAKINGTON said his hon. and gallant friend was mistaken with regard to the importance of the re ductions. The additional laud required at Deptford Ras bought and paid for, an 1 the item of 4,0001. which was struck off was merely for the inclosure, drainage, and so on, and he was assured by the director of the works that the matter might very well be postponed. At Chatham, too, the money taken for the yard was more than was ac tually required. Sir C. NIPIER—INIaIta. Sir J. PAKINGTON was informed that it was vary doubtful whether the situation of the land which it had been intended to purchase was the best that could be ob tained. As regarded Keyham, it appeared that the 25,0001. was to have been paid for a mud flat, unfit for building purposes. He thought that sum was too much for each land, especially as there were between ten and twenty acres of laud belonging to the public adjacent to Keyham-yard which were still unappropriated. Mr. T. G. BARING observed that the vote of 25,0-101. for the purchase of land adjoining Keyham-yard was not a new vote, this outlay having been in fact sanctioned by the House of Commons last year. It bad often happened that the public had been put to great additional expense in consequence of laud in a convenient situation not hav ing been purchased early enough. The land which it was Dropesed to purchase at Keyhaea bordered on the estuary. It was not, as the right hon. gentleman supposed, entirely a mud-flat, but a considerable portion of it was rising ground, and was suitable for the building of barracks for sailors—an object of which the right hon. gentleman had expressed his approval. The extension of the Corn - wall Railway to Keybam-yard was an object of great im portance, in reference to the economy of labour, and the only reason why the purchase of land in question was delayed by the late First Lord of the Admiralty was, tha. he wished first to ascertain what would be the best point for the junction. The extension of the Malta Dock yard was very important, the space at present occupied being exceedingly confined. Again, ho contended that the reduction of 4,000/. for the contemplated arrangements at the Cape of Good Hope, was by no means a wise reduc tion; those arrangements including the erection of a new jetty, which was much required, and the bringing the coal depot much nearer to the vessels. He also regretted very much the striking off of 10,0001. from the vote of 30,0J0/. which had been proposed with the view of providing suit able lodgings for the csast-guard. It must be recollected that this expenditure was proposed partly for the purpose of encouraging good seamen to enter the coast-guard ser vice. (Hear, hear.) The land which it had been proposed to purchase at Portsmouth was required to provide better accommodation for the soldiers there, there having been a good deal of fever in that locality last year. The items to which he had referred ma le up from 60,0001. to 70,0001. of the 100,0J01. which had be en taken off by the right hon. gentleman, and he thought what he had said was sufficient to show that the late First Lord of the Admiralty had not framed this branch of his estimates without due conside ration. He might add that among the amounts struck off by the right hon. gentleman was 2,500/. for a jetty which would be so valuable that it would lead to a saving of 500/. in the launch of a ship. Sir J. PAKINGTON though the hon. gentleman who had just spoken laboured under erroneous impressions with regard to the reductions. He (Sir J. Pakington) admitted the importance of finishing the doct:yard improvements at Portsmouth, and he was happy to be able to tell the hon. gentleman that reduced estimates would suffice to carry on the works during the present year. There would, in fact, be no delay. He entirely agreed with the hon. gentleman as to the necessity of providing suitable lodgings for the coast guard men ; but on investigating the estimates he was as sured that the vote of 30,0.0'. was entirely an arbitrarysum —a mere guess; and this was corroborated by - the fact that last year, although a vote of 25,000/. was taken for the same purpose, only 4,re00/. was expended within the year. Commodore Eden had assured him that eO,COO/. would be amply sufficient fur the prseent year. With re gard to the projected jetties at Portsmouth, he begged to say that having visited the spot., he now regretted their omission, but as the amount required was so small, he hoped there would be sufficient funds to enable him to carry out the object. Mr. BEN TENCK called attention to the item for gun boat slips at Hasler. Tile total estimated cost of those slips was 70,000/. Having visited the place himself , he had as certained that th er e w e re 40 gunboats now hauledupnntle on sheds, and it w a s the opinion of the naval authorities the spot that, using the utmost possible diligence it would be h t impossible to launch more than eight of the b etts ina fortnight. He thought that this es:atnate proved, that if men who were unfit by their antecedents for c t sai e ta s e s "o ft ll l es e t n s were placed in them, the result was , the public. that grea Sir C. NAPIEIt denied that these gunboats could be launched in an hour. The hon. and gallant member pro ceeded, amidst the laughter of the committee, to explain the operation of the launching of the gunboats, taking the occupants of the treasury bench as representatives of the OF LANDS BILL, This bill passed through committee. CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL. Tke committee on this bill was postponed till Monday. FRANCHISE PRISONS, Mr. HARDY brought in a bill to abolish franchise prisons.. JURA REGALIA OF DURHAM. Mr. HAMILTON brought in a bill to amend the provisions; of an act of the 6th year of King William IV., for !separating the palatine jurisdiction of the County Palatine of Durban► from the Bishopric of Durham. CONTRACTS (PUBLIC DEPARTMENTS). On the motion of Col. BOLDER°, the aelect committee co-tracts was ordered to consist of 17 members and Mr. Roebuck and Col. Knox were add e d t o th e committee. The house then adjourned, at 20 minutes past 12 o'clock. It has been stated that a railway clerk, named Arnold, was lately arrested at Erfurtb, in Prussia, for haying made a revelation to the police that a plot bad been coli c )cted for assassinating the King of Prussia, which revelation turned out on investigation to be entit.ell false. This man has just been brought to trial br.,forl the Tribunal of Erforth, but has been acquitted. Aa appeal, h , wever, has been presented. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—WO quote a few more of the ertraordl nary cures without medicine effected by Du Barry'a delicious health-restoring Revalenta Arabica Food of Indigestion (Dyspepsia), Flatulency, Constipation, Nervous, Bilious, and Liver Complaints, Cough, Asthma, Consumption, and Debility: Cure No. 180.—" Twenty-five years' nervousneue, constipe , * tion, indigestion, and debility, from which I b a d su ff ere d great misery, and which no medicine could remove or relieve, have been effectually cured by Du Barry's Food in a very' short time.—W. R. 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Suitably packed with full instruct. tions, In canisters, llb. 2s, 9d.; 211). 4s. 6d.; 5',1). lie.; 121 b. 225. The 121 b canisters are sent carnage it , eo on re , ceipt of Post-office order. Barry Du Barry, amd 77, Regent-street, London. Imp or t an t C aution agaix.st the Co., fear. fill dangers of spurious imitations.—The Vice-Chancellor Sir William Page Wood granted au Injunction on tha 10th March, 1854, against Alfred Hooper Nevill for imitating "D$ Barry'e Re vale Ida Arabica Food. * BIRTHS. BEAUMONT— On the 23d inst., the Lady Margaret Beaumont• of a daughter. BAKER—On the 19th inst., at Hazeldean Cottage, Cal' bridge, the wife of James Baker, Esq., of a eon. Emmsr—On the 22d inst., at Kensington-park -gardens, the wife of G. N. Emmet, Esq., of a daughter. LEGII —On the 22d inst., at AdliuTton Hall, Cheshire, the wife of Charles Richard Bauastre Legh, Esq , of a Om and heir. MARRIAGES, BAGEHOT-7—WILSON—On the 21st inst., at Claverton Manor Church, Somerset, Walter. only son of Thos. Mr, Bagehot , Esq., o:lltrd's.hill, near Langport, Somerset, to Eliza, the eldest daughter of James Wi!son, Esq , GItEENHILL-DRUMMOND —Ou the 13th lust., at the Episcopa l Church, Muthi I, Perthshire, Charles Greenhill, Esq., Car tain Coldstream Guar s, to the Hon. Amelia Anne Drilla" mond, eldest daughter of the Viscount Strathallan. DE AT II S. KEELING—On the 231 inst., S , phis, the wife of Mr. Henry L. Keeling, of 4, Albany-tertzte), Regent's-park, a n ''' Monument-yard, city, . - La BLANC—Ou the 2.1 d inst., at 23, Grosvenor-place, Char les'. Le Blanc, Esq . of N. , rthaw, Herts. LEcKte--On the 22d it st , at Northampton-square, Leckie, Esq., aged 85. RINTOUL —On the 22d inst., R. S. Rintoul, Esq., aged 71• sAcits—On the 222 inst., at 46, Connaught-terrace, Edge . ware-road, Mr. C. P. Sachs, aged 77. (.40.1W0N Printed and Published by MITRDO YOUN G ' of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun O9ice, 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the coup " of Aliddlesex, Saturday, April 24, 1858. IDR. 3, TICHB Ll L it. RAE MARE An' band Si ; for ducted by 'V alentine greatest CHARLES and and is to b at th e market. —qndreduestria tru ALHAM] %flees eac Right In performa; • cono.tnin i *nice. Achniss Reserved Boxes Mr. Mite! 10 a.m.. I are corn, . Penny ea( horses' ti Pram Vria deity Of April, relation 2, 12, Hai T in Li and Irela ve a drtise ford, on 1 M 1 l'lace, Lo leans on assured. Of grace. TNT JI SO fished 182 has been Acdieles o tarring annual p the dead of grace. T" t 'MPONVE Wm . Stunn John )des in ‘ ,The utay, ............. Polk. tak e i out in lam 1 841 1 845 154 8 1481 Th e nation The . Twc Its y Itsj to one Its Th 4 Atx Sin of thr For man, 142 .....,_ FIX *kit SE Ana fro g , to It, bake te rn , tirin a 0341 p SeqU Wilt( hooe Othe PPtt thet: the tit!