The Sun. — London, England, 1860-08-04 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. FIRST READINGS. The Landlord and Tenant, the East India Stock Trans fer, and several other bills were brought up from the Com mons and read a first time. LANDLORD AND TENANT. The Earl of DERBY presented a petition from Cork praying the house to pass a measure protecting the rights of the tenant without infringing those of the landlord. • THE SLAVE TRADE. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Anti- Slavery Society, complaining of the conduct of Spain, which country having received compensation for the losses sustained by the abolition of slavery, had, in forgetfulness of that compensation, permitted the importation of slaves to conti lue and increase in Cuba to the extent of at least 40,000 unfortunate slaves a year. The petitioners prayed that the house would take immediate steps to compel Spain to effectually carry out her engagements. The noble lord then presented another petition complaining of slavery, and was proceeding to enter at length into the subject men tioned therein, when The LORD CHANCELLOR rose and called the noble and learned lord to order, observing that it was against the rules of the house to make speeches on the presentation of petitions. Lord BROUGHAM said his experience on the woolsack had not been as many years as his noble and learned friend's had been months. He was not forgetful of the privileges of noble lords in presenting petitions, and he would then read the prayer of the petition. Earl GRANVILLE said his noble friend had been called upon by the clerk at the table to proceed with the motion that stood on the paper in his name for that evening, and he was therefore out of order in going at length into the subject of a petition. Lord BROUGHAM said, had the noble earl been in his place at five o'clock, he should have presented the petition within the quarter of an hour allowed for that purpose. Earl GRANVILLE said he was in the house at the time mentioned by the hon. and learned lord. Lord BROUGHAM said whether he had been under the benches or under the table he could not say; at any rate he was not in his place. (Laughter.) The noble lord then, without farther preface, presented the petition. PUBLIC BUSINESS. Lord BROUGHAM then proceeded to move that the report of the House of Commons, contained in private bills, should be reprinted. The noble lord then commented on the inconvenient system in which the business was now carried on in the House of Commons, and more parti cularly referred to the bad practice of allowing motions for adjournment of the house to be taken advantage of for the purpose of raising desultory discussions upon various sub jects. He was of opinion that improvement was very much required in the conduct of business in Parliament, and with a view of effecting so desirable an object, he made the present motion. The motion was agreed to. RETIREMENT OF BISHOPS. Viscount DUNGANNON called the attention of the house to the case of Dr. Hinds, the Bishop of Norwich, who had retired from office without a pension, and asked whether it was the intention of the Government to intro duce a bill next session to provide for retiring bishops. Earl GRANVILLE said he was not at present prepared to afford any satisfactory information. Tho Naval Discipline Bill passed through committee. SYRIA. Lord STRATFORD de REDCLIFFE rose to move for copies or extracts of despatches received by her Majesty's Government in reference to the late outrages in Syria. The noble lord said it would be in the recollection of the house that, some few weeks ago, he had asked a question on the subject, when a noble and learned lord, who was not then present, expressed a hope that at some future time he (the noble lord) would enter more fully into the question. He should have acted upon that suggestion at an earlier peried, but he was in hopes that some noble lord, better able than himself to deal with the subject, would have taken it up. The question was one of very magnified importance, and he thought it ought to be considered by their lordships before Parliament broke up, as he believed it would be considered by the other House of Parliament. He did not think it necessary to enter into a detail of the atrocities which had taken place in Syria, for they were but too painfully im pressed on the papers presented to the house, and had been commented on in every form by the public journals. It was impossible to lose sight of the importance of these proceed ings, and to the necessity of measures being promptly taken to put a stop to them and to prevent any further loss of life, with the least possible delay. He gave the Government full credit for doing what they deemed to be necessary, and the circumstance of a commissioner being appointed to pro ceed to Syria proved that they were alive to the necessity of immediate action, and he trusted that appointment would be attended with advantage. But it was not merely the sending out a commissioner and communicating with other powers that would have the effect of putting a stop to the atrocities which had been committed in Syria. He believed, so far as the present state of the case was concerned, there was much reason to hope that some kind of arrangement had already been made to stop the effusion of blood ; but it was impossible to lose sight of what had already taken place, and the dreadful circumstances attending the out break. It might become necessary to allow the interference of some of the European powers, or some European power, and it even might be that the landing of a considerable force in Syria was to be expected; and if the Turkish Go vernment were not able to put down the disturbances in question, he should not regret such interference taking place under proper arrangements. But it had been said that considerable danger might arise on that point, as Syria was the key to Egypt. There was no question but that the Turkish Government had always lamented its inability to deal with that portion of the empire, and that Lebanon had never been brought under its subjection. If he was rightly informed, promises had been given to the tribes that their iniepenlence should be secured, and such a circumstance rendered it very difficult to deal with their affairs. On the one haw' they would have to provide for maintaining the promises made, and on the other to exercise a just mistrust Vida regard to the entrance of foreign troops into that country. But there was a paramount consideration which ought to influence this country in interfering, and that was that the repetition of such atrocities as had lately occurred should not take place. (Hear.) He wished he could say that we might rely on the Turkish Government giving us security against any repetition of these disturbances. It was impossible, after reading the correspondence on their lord ships' table, not to suspect that the officers of the Porte had been guilty of unpardonable remissness, and even of con nivance, in the atrocities in question. It was shown that on more than one occasion, when they had a force sufficient to check the contending parties, they acted with remarkable partiality towards one of them, and after inducing the side most exposed to danger to give up their arms, had opened the gags of the town and allowed them to be butchered. He hoped that with the measures proposed to be taken: there would be one of a judicial character. (Hear, hear.) From the papers he found an officer mentioned under the name of Osman Bey, who seemed to have himself led the way to one massacre, not merely of armed men, but of help less women and children. Among the difficulties con nected with this question were those of interpreting a part at least of the causes of these calamities. One of the cause--could we give credit in any degree to the Sultan for not willingly conniving at any crimes of this kind—was the weakness of his power. He (Lord Stratford de Red cliffe) would take the liberty of asking what was the cause of that weakness, from whence was it derived ? It appeared that at the time these disturbances broke out the number of troops in that part of the empire was very small, and that the Turkish Government were not prepared with the means of sending a largo force into that country, their attention having been directed to a distant part of the empire near the Russian frontier. The Turkish Government was always exposed to dangers of this kind from one side or the other. Through itsinjudicious conduct insurrections were frequent, which they had hitherto had the good fortune to put down, • but every successive exertion of that kind had only increased its weakness. In short, nothing less than a complete in ternal reform could prevent that catastrophe which it was the objeet of every statesman in Europe to avoid. He was free, however, to say that it was by no means absolutely necessary such weakness should exist. It was the state of the finances of Turkey that made it so difficult to keep up an army, and he understood that in this case the troops, which had been called out to suppress the insurrection, were greatly in arrear as to their pay. The Porte had been repeatedly warned as 1,0 ,the state of its finances, and against the old system of financial administration, but he could solemnly say from his own personal experience that no at tention whatever had been paid to such good advice. The consequence was that the Government had gon3 step by step into gradually increasing difficulties, until at last it was incapable of keeping up the amount of force necessary even for the maintenance of internal order. How could t hey under such circumstances look back with satisfaction atv the efforts which this country had made when the Porte was threatened. by Russia—efforts in which it was but sii t e cfr ee s t ayour powerful neighbour joined with a degree th _ which G ought to have secured the gratitude of adopted had proclaimed It was true that the Sultan had proclaimed a scheme of reform, which i f properly carried out would hive prevented these disasters. But that scheme was one of the not•been carded out, and the present i the s tate of Syria consequences of that neglect. it Was impossible, when lookingeatthe affairs of Syria, to dieconne ct them with the affairs whole empire, and it would be in vain to put down these disturbance s s t anc h the blood , unless we found means , —itt vain to make the Turkish Government t &deem its pledges, and giveeffect to its promised re forms. - With out that, anyt h ing they shou ld do would . be on ly patching up the difficulty for a moment, and [sowing the seeds hf future and still more disastrous insurrections. If this were the first tim e when events like the distenbances in the Lebanon had h a pp ened, the question might b e confined to narrow grounds, and the assurances of the Turkish Go vernment accepted that proper measures would be taken with or without the concurrence of Europe ; but he repeated that many circumstances must show their lordships that this was only the partial symptoms of a general weakness, and that unless the Turkish Government should redeem its pledges, there would be no security for the future. Although sorry to take up their lordships' time, he could not leave the subject without stating some of his reasons for the mo tion of which ho had given notice. He must confess that the impression made on his mind by the papers which had been produced was, that they were not very comprehensive in their contents. In the first place, the papers were nothing but relations from the different consuls of the dangers which they had passed. It appeared that a memorial was pre sented by the merchants to the consuls on the 20th May, and that apprehensions of disturbance had for a long time previous been entertained. That apprehension was subse quently fulfilled, and its expression should have been re ceived with great attention. He saw in the papers no proof of such attention having been paid, further than that the consul-general at Beyrout had, in conjunction with the other consuls, made a representation to the Pacha. It appeared that in doing so the consul-general had only ac ceded to the request of the other consuls, and that notwith standing the representation made, the Pacha of Beyrout set off for the mountains with an armed force. He should there • fore like to know what instructions Mr. Moore had, or whe ther he was kept totally ignorant of the views of his Go • vemment. (Hear.) He thought it requisite that Parliament should have some information on this subject. He found that one transaction had taken place no less than a year ago, when the Syrians of the mountains met in collision not far from Beyrout, and when there was a considerable loss of life. It was surely the duty of the consul to have reported this both at home and at Constantinople, and he must have received. some instructions in consequence which ought to be produced. There were other points in the papers, also, which were well worthy of attention, but upon which the Foreign-of f ice were totally silent. There might be reasons for this reserve, but unless there were, it was only right that Parliament should have fuller information. These cir cumstances presented to his mind considerations of even still greater importance than what related to the Turkish empire. It was impossible to follow the course of events without perceiving that palliatives had been exhausted, and that they had only temporarily escaped the conflict of principle which must sooner or later take place. It appeared to him they got nearer to it every day, an it would require all the judgment and vigour of persons in authority in order to prevent a crisis. In proof of what he said let their lord ships look at current events. In France they saw principles advanced, and upon which the Government rested, which were totally opposed to the foundations of European institu tions. In Austria, again, the Government was exposed to the action of principles which were shaking the empire to its foundations. If they carried their views still further he thought they might find evidence of some change in our Indian posssessions, and he was sure that in that country which the combined forces of France and England had so recently attacked, there was evidence of the operation of new principles. Indeed he was not sure that we were quite free from them in this country, and therefore he came back to the first position, viz., that the period for palliatives had passed away, and that the strongest measures were necessary to prevent the tremendous consequences that might be impend ing. He must say that he saw in the present state of af fairs the means of keeping together what remained of the Turkish empire, and to put an end to the distractions in Syria. It was not for him to dictate to Government the policy they should adopt; his disposition was to trust to them, but he must say that it was of great consequence that under such circumstances the attention of Parliament should be directed to the subject, that time should not be lost in the carrying out of temporary measures, but that they should keep themselves perfectly awake to the state of public affairs. He confessed he had read with great satis faction the result of the debate of the previous evening in the other Howe of Parliament. Notwithstanding the elo quence with which illusions had been supported, he was gratified to find that the measure which was then under the consideration of the house had passed by so large a majo rity. After an allusion to the treaty of Paris, the noble lord concluded by saying that his object was not to impose on the patience of the house, but he felt it to be his duty to bring these matters under their lordships' notice before the close of the session. There was no greater calamity than to see nations shaken by their own internal weakness, and he trusted that in the present alarming crisis a proper amount of energy would be exhibited by all parties concerned. The noble lord concluded by reading the terms of the motion. Lord WODEHOUSE wished to state certain reasons why he could not grant the papers which were asked for by his noble friend. The papers which had been produced were merely the despatches of the consuls, showing the actual progress of events, the object , of the Government being to put Parliament in possession of the facts. In the other house also papers had been moved for respecting 1857, 1858, and 1859, but his noble friend moved also for corre spondence of a very recent date, the despatches of the Sec retary of State, the consular correspondence, and copies and extracts of the instructions. Now these despatches re lated to matters of the greatest consequence, and the ut-: most delicacy, and which were at this moment under dis cussion by the powers of Europe. If these were published it would be impossible to conduct the negotiations which were going on, and he was confident that his noble friend would see that under such circumstances Government eould not accede to his motion without detriment to the public service. A most active correspondence had been going on with the consul at Beyrout, and he could only say that that gentlemen on this, as on every occasion had displayed the utmost energy and activity. His noble friend had referred to those negotiations which took place some years ago, the result of which was an agreement between the Druses and Maronites, and under which those two populations were to be guided by certain officials of their own appointment. That arrangement had endured more or less to the present time. Lord STRATFORD de REDCLIFFE was understood to say the arrangement was proposed by the European powers, and accepted by the Porte. Lord WODEHOUSE, after thanking his noble friend for the correction, said that unfortunately that arrange ment had bean interrupted, and the disagreement had led to such atrocities that the more one read of them the more horror pervaded the mind. (Hear, hear.) The Government had received further papers this day respecting what had taken place at Damascus. They were written while the atrocities were going on, and the writer gave a full account of the calamities which had occurred. It appeared from the events which had happened, and from the papers, that the recent disturbances were not confined to the quarrel between the Druses and Maronites, but that the origin of the out; break were insults to the Christian population by some part of the Mohammedan population. Those insults led to a punishment which consisted in their being compelled to sweep the streets. That might have been a mistaken order on the part of the Turkish authorities, but at any rate it was carried out. It was perfectly clear that although the recent events did not commence by a war between the Druses and Maronites, yet they had been continued in con sequence of the strong feeling of hatred which existed be tween the Chi istians and Mohammedans, and they were fraught with the greates' dangers to the Turkish empire, with far greater and far more important consequences than in any former time. His noble friend said their lordships ought to take these questions into their sober and serious consideration, and he admitted that it was impossible for the great powers of Europe to stand by and witness what had been committed without making some attempt to re dress the evils which were inflicted. (Hear.) That sober and serious consideration was peculiarly necessary, because those who took notice of these events could not but be in fluenced by a strong feeling of sympathy in favour of those who had so seriously suffered, and by a great desire to render them assistance in obtaining redress. His noble friend had justly said that the position of the Turkish em pire required in dealing with it the utmost caution and delicacy, and he could assure his noble friend that the great powers had felt the truth of that observation on the present occasion, and especially in the recent consultation which had taken place at Paris. The result of those consultations had been the production of a protocol, and it had actually been signed. It set forth the conditions under which the European powers were to act, and what should take place. The Government had not received the instrument in its final state, but he believed he could give their lordships the leading features of it. The instrument had taken the form of a protocol and not a convention, for the reason that if a convention had been agreed upon it would have been neces sary that full powers should have been previously sent to all the ambassadors, and that proceeding would have caused great delay. (Hear, hear.) There were precedents for a protocol in what took place in 1840, and in the Bel gium question, and those were quite sufficient to authorise the form of this instrument on this occasion. Their lord ships might be told, however, that a convention was pro vided for. The protocol had been signed by the five re presentatives of the great powers, and by the represen tative of the Porte, and it stated that the 'great powers had offered the Sultan their assistance in order to put an end to those disturbances which had arisen in Syria, and that the Sultan had accepted the offer of such assistance. The agreement was to the effect that forces belonging to the European powers should be sent to Syria, but that they should not exceed 12,000 troops, and of that number the Emperor of the French was to send 6,000, and they wore to proceed to the scene of the disturbances without any delay. The ether 6,000 men were to be furnished by such one of the great powers as upon further consultation should appear to be expedient. The period of the continuance of the troops in Syria was to be limited to six months. Besides making provision as to details there was an additional protocol whereby the different poers had expressed their anxious desire that the assurances given by the Porte in 1856 in re ference to improving the condition of all the subjects of the Porte should be carried out, and the different Powers on this occasion, as they did in 1840, expressed their entire dis interestedness in regard to these disturbances, in Syria— merely taking part in quelling them for the exclusive ad vantage of the Porte, and without any view to the influence es territorial addition to themselves, or making any stipu lations as to commercial matters on the part of any of them. (Hear, hear.) That instrument had been actually signed. The measures which the Porte had taken were in sending troops and special commissioners to Syria with full powers to act as might be required, and the Sultan himself and his Government had given assurances of their de' ermination to inflict condign punishment upon all persons who had taken part in these outrages. If these assurances were carried out the result would be salutary. The different Powers would 8430 send commissioners to Syria, and Lord Dufferin would proceed there on the part of her Majesty's Govern ment. It would be their duty to inquire fully into the whole matter, and those inquiries would be of a most searching kind, in order that all the offenders might be brought to justice. He was obliged to say that one of i the chief offenders was the late Pacha of Damascus, but he would be punished, and was indeed already in cus tody. The Turkish Government had ordered him to be tried forthwith, and if the proceedings were conducted with impartiality, the trial would have a good effect. The Go -1 ''' ver nment had received a telegram which stated that order had been restored at Damascus, that a new governor had arrived there, and that he had commenced his duties, and was proceeding with them in a manner highly conducive to the safety and tranquillity of the place and the people. (Hear.) The state of things in Syria was such as required a very strong hand to restore peace, and it could not be denied that the Porte, though with good intentions, had not been able to carry out to the full extent those inten tions. His noble friend stated that in consequence of the former events in Syria, the greatest caution would be ne cessary on the part of her Majesty's Government in dealing with this question. He could assure his !noble friend that the Government felt that that caution was required, but at the same time they did not conceal from themselves the fact that the outrages which had been perpetrated required that the great powers should take immediate and effectual measures to repress them. (Hear.) It would be impossible to tell how far these disturbances might extend if they were allowed to be continued. His noble friend said the time had passed for half measures to be resorted to, and that mea sures should be taken- to prevent the Turkish empire from falling to pieces, but that had been the policy of this coun try for many years past. His noble friend had alluded to the want of information as to whether Sir Henry Bulwer had taken steps to instruct the different consuls in Syria, and (Lord Wodehouse) wished to point out thiet the mo ment Sir H. Bulwer received the news of the outbreak, he telegraphed to them instructions to the effect that :they were to take the most active measures to restore order. It would not be necessary that he should on this occasion enter into a discussion of the general question which had been noticed by his noble friend. (Hear, hear.) It was sufficient to deal with this single question, which in itself was of a most difficult kind. He could assure their lord ships that the Government had earnestly directed their attention to it, in order that proper steps might be taken by the great Powers of Europe, with the joint concurrence of the Porte. There was no desire to neglect the question, but to look it fairly in the face, in the hope that they might arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. This was a question which all those who were acquainted with the affairs of the East 'knew was one of the most dangerous as it regarded the Turkish empire—(hear, hear)—and also as it might affect the peace of Europe, and the good understanding which existed among the different powers. The Government did not disguise from themselves that the difficulties of the Eastern question might interfere with the general policy of the Governments of Europe, and that it would be impossible that any great catastrophe conlfl take place in the Ottoman empire without involving in it calamities and dangers to Europe as to which no man would be able to see the end. (Hear.) The Earl of DERBY said he did not intend to enter upon a discussion of the general question, though he felt with the noble viscount opposite that it was a question of the greatest importance and of immense delicacy. (Hear.) He thought it ought to be the policy of all persons in this country to abstain as far as possible front saying anything which might have a tendency to embarrass the course which the Govern ment desired to pursue, because from the uncertainty which surrounded the question it would be impossible to render any assistance to the Government, and therefore the duty of the house would be to allow the Government to perform their duties, and leave the question in their hands to be dealt with by them. He merely rose to ask a question as to whether a statement which had appeared in some of the newspapers was true or not. If it were true, it reflected the greatest credit upon the gentleman to whom it referred. The statement was to the effect that a gentleman of the name of Harvey, the commander of a British ship, had, on an application being made to him for assistance by the people of Tyre, landed his small crew, and had so placed the can non which he had on board that he, through his determi nation and courage, rescued from danger and bloodshed the population of the place. Such vigour and energy deserved to be noticed, and he wpuld repeat that, if the statement were true, it reflected the highest credit upon that gentle man. He asked the noble lord the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether the Government had received any information of the occurrence. (Hear.) Lord WODEHOUSE said the facts were, he believed, as stated by the noble earl, and their lordships would find them recorded in the papers laid on the table. Nothing could have been more creditable to any man than the con• duct of Mr. Harvey, and nothing could better have shown the great respect in which the English name was held in that part of the world. If his noble friend at the head of the Foreign-office had an opportunity he would state to that gentleman his high opinion of his conduct. He might state, however, that Mr. Harvey did not land his crew, but he placed his ship in such a position, and so well directed his small guns, that he impressed the inhabitants with the idea that his vessel yeas a British ship of war, and the result was that they were saved from the calamities which, but for his conduct, might have happened. He would mention to their lordships another case deserving of notice. The Government had been informed that a Mahommedan lady took into her house 300 Christian women at the time whenthe massacres were going on, and no doubt they would have been mas sacred if she had not taken them underher protection. The conduct of that lady reflected the highest credit upon her. (Hear.) The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said there was another individual who deserved great praise, and that was Abd-el- Kader. The course he pursued was highly meritorious. He (the Marquis of Clanricarde) felt the delicacy of dealing with this question as much as anybody, but he thought they might carry that feeling too far. He found no fault with the course taken by her Majesty's Government, but he thought the noble lord the Under-Secretary had not told them much of what had been done. As to the protocol, he doubted whether the whole truth and facts of the case were recorded in it. Her Majesty's Government must not rest satisfied with the promises of Turkish commissioners, but they should enforce upon the Turkish Government the duty of improving the condition of their subjects. (Hear.) Earl GRANVILLE rather regretted that the subject was not left where the noble earl opposite (the Earl of Derby) finished his speech, because the question was a very difficult and a very delicate one. It must be regretted that the Turkish Government had shown such weakness during the late disturbances ; but, on the other hand, they should remember that the integrity of the Turkish empire had always been an object of English and European policy. It was not from any love to the Turks or to the Mahommedan religion that this country had supported the Turkish em pire, but on the broad principle that no one had yet dis covered the means of displacing the Turkish Government by any other Government which would be compatible with the safety of Europe. There was no doubt, with regard to the expedition new being planned by France and all the other powers of Europe, that it was an exceptional measure, ' and if they could place Syria in a more satisfactory state he should greatly rejoice. He could not concur with the noble marquis that all danger of further massacre was at an end, because all the Christians had been massacred who could be massacred. An awful responsibility would have been incurred if all had not been done that could have been done by the European powers to curb the fanatical spirit of the Turks which had been evinced in Syria, and which was in danger of being excited in other places. He thought the heuse would agree with what fell from Earl Derby, that there were two sides to this question, and that we should not, because our feelings were aroused, entirely change the policy which had been hitherto considered to contribute so greatly to the peace of Europe and to the balance of power. Lord STRATFORD de REDCLIFFE, in reply, con tended that after the sacrifices this country had made to maintain the integrity of the Turkish Empire, the English Government had a right to expect that the Sultan would listen to the counsels of this country, and advantage should be taken of the present crisis to impress upon the Govern ment of Turkey the necessity of making those reforms which could alone preserve that country from the dangers inciden tal to internal disorganisation. Lord WODEHOUSE said he would give as much in formation on the subject as he could, but he could not pro duce the correspondence which the noble lord referred to. The motion was then withdrawn. The following bills were then read a third time and passed :—Conjugal Rights (Scotland) Bill, Coast of Africa, &c., Act Amendment Bill, Crown Debts and Judgments Bill, Debtors and Creditors Act Amendment Bill, Railways Act (Ireland) (1851) Amendment Bill, and County Coro uers' Bill. SUPERANNUATION ACT (1859) AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at a quarter past twelve o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. . The Lords' amendments to the Burnham Tidal Harbour Railways, and the London, Chatham, and Dover Railway (Metropolitan Extension) Bill were considered and agreed to, as were the following bills :—Lord de Freyne's Estate and Caithness Roads. The following bills wen read a second time :—Beauchamp Almshouses Estate Bill, Domvile's Estate Bill, Earl of Longford's Estate Bill, Vis.count Lorton's Estate Bill, and Giustiniani's Naturalisation Bill. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Sir J. SIIELLEY said he felt bound to protest against the way in which business was brought before the house. Ude) , were now called on to vote a large sum of money without the knowledge of most of the members, who had left the house last night before its adjournment, and the press contained no announcnnent in the usual form as to the business that would be proceeded with at this day's sitting. (Hear.) If the votes to-which he referred • had been postponed until the evening, then there would be • no ground for complaint. Last year a similar course had I been adopted, and an absurd vote agreed to, with reference to the filtration of the Thames, and he thought the time THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, AUGUST 4, 1860. had arrived when a different course should be pursued. Had the Liberal members been en the Tory side of the house they would have been open-mouthed at the practice to which they had recourse, in endeavouring to smuggle im portant votes through the house. (Hear, hear.) Tinder these circumstances he felt bound to protest against the conduct of the Government, though his own party. (Hear.) THE CASE OF THE REV. L. C. P. FOX, ROMAN CATHOLIC CHAPLAIN. The O'DONOGHUE called the attention of the house to the dismissal of the Rev. Mr. Pox from the chaplaincy of the South Dublin Union by the Irish Poor Law Corn naissioners. He apologised for delaying the house in going into committee, but the subject, which he felt bound to bring forward, had created considerable sensation in Ire land, and he thonght it was entitled to be inquired into by that house. Mr. Fox asserted most positively that he had done nothing more nor less than hie duty, and it was for discharging that duty that he was dismissed. It appeared that the matron of the union had received information which induced her to be- Hove that some of the female paupers had stolen some of the clothes of the institution. They refused to be searched in the presence of the male officers of the union, and a row ensued while they were being searched, which led to the police being called in. The women were then taken before a magistrate, who investigated the charge, and was about to inflict severe punishment on them whbn the Rev. Mr. Fox interfered, and gave a different version of the affair. The consequence was, that the magistrates considerably mitigated the sentence, notwithstanding that the male officers of the Union con tradicted the statement of the Rev. Mr. Fox. This took place on the 7th of April last, and on the 12th of the month the master of the Union made a report to the guardians rela tive to what had taken place before the magistrate. After con c3nsid ering that report the guardians requested the Poor Law commissioners to institute an enquiry, and accordingly that body directed a sworn investigation to take place. Mr. Fox was examined 'and swore that he witnessed the most indelicate conduct of the male officers of the Union in searching the women, one of whom was thrown down and her clothes turned over her head. This statement was corroborated by some of the females, but was denied by the parties implicated. As the hon. member was proceeding, Mr. BLACK said he must protest against the time of the house being occupied with the consideration of an Irish row, when there was so much important business to be transacted. (Cries of " Hear, hear" and " Order.") The SPEAKER said the hon. member (The O'Donoghue) was in possession of the house. It was a matter entirely for his discretion to what length he would occupy the at tention of the house. The O'DONOGHUE then resumed, and contended that the Rev. Mr. Fox was most unjustly dismissed, and con cluded with an earnest appeal to the house to do justice to a clergyman who had stood forward in behalf of poor young females, whom he considered were most unjustly treated. (Hear, hear.) Mr. CARDWELL said that the Poor Law Commis sioners were not responsible for what took place in a work house, the management of which was vested in the guardians, and in this case they were merely responsible for the manner in which this inquiry was conducted. On the representation of the guardians, the commissioners directed the investigation in question, and appointed Mr. Otway one of their body, and a most respectable gentleman to conduct the inquiry, which was appoinqd in accordance with the provisions of the statute, and lasted four days. The evidence taken was before the house, and, as might be expected under the circumstances, was of a most conflict ing character. The charge made by the Rev. Mr. Fox that the conduct of the officers was scandalous, abominable, and obscene, was not sustained, but at the same time they cast no imputation on Mr. Fox, and believed that he had stated only what he considered to be strictly ti ae. It appeared that Mr. Fox was not in the room when the searching took place, and there were two closed windows between him and the room. The commissioners were responsible for the peace of the workhouse, in which there were between 2,000 and 3,900 inmates; and as they could not dismiss the officers on charges which were not established, they felt bound to discharge Mr, Fox, not as a punishment, but as a precaution to preserve the peace of the establish ment. To show the disorderly character of the inmates of the workhouses referred to, he alluded to the facts that recently seven women in that union were tried before a magistrate for attempting to burn the building, and one of them was sentenced to penal servitude, while shortly after five others were convicted, and one of the number was proved to have stolen some of the clothes of the union. Sir G. BOWYER considered that the right hon. gentle man (Mr. Cardwell) had not given a satisfactory answer, and that the evidence and the presumptions were in favour of the statement of the Rev. Mr. Fox. Mr. BUTT said that this was a matter of great import. ance, as the commissioners had made a declaration, a rule that would influence other Unions and materially affect the administration of the Poor-law in Ireland. They vir tually asserted that they were to uphold officers of a workhouse, and to visit with punishment a gentleman like Mr. Fox for interfering with them in conformity with the conscientious discharge of his duty. It was admitted that the women were searched in the presence of men, and there was nothing to justify the outrage on the feelings of these poor females. The commissioners were more to blame than even the master of the workhouse in enduring the conduct of officials when they, as he contended, violated decency and law. Mr. HENLEY objected to the doctrine laid down by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Cardwell), and contended that commissioners should be responsible for the conduct of masters of workhouses. If it went forth that officials were upheld in the manner described, those persons would be deterred in coming to give evidence against these officials, where they might be subjected to such consequences as dismissal from their situation. Mr. DE ASY said that it would certainly have been bet ter if the paupers had been brought before the magistrate, on a charge with having stolen the union clothing, but at the same time he 'did not consider that the commissioners could act differently to what they done under the circum stances. Mr. VANCE said that, in his opinion, the commissioners had no alternative, and were compelled to dismiss Mr. Fox, as the charges against the officers were not proved, and therefore they could not dismiss them. After a few words from Colonel FRENCH, Mr. MONSELL contended that the commissioners were to blame, and that they should immediately re-instate Mr. Fox. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Card well) should throw over the commissioners and do justice between the parties. Lord FERMOY concurred fully in the views of the hon. member (The O'Donoghue), to whom he felt indebted for bringing this subject forward. He rose merely to supply an omission on the part of the hon. member, who, in hia opinion, should have concluded by calling on the house for a specific expression of opinion on this matter. After some observations, the noble lord concluded by a motion to the effect that the conduct of the Poor Law Commissioners, in the dismissal of Mr. Fox, and the occurrences relating thereto, was not calculated to inspire confidence in the ad ministration of the pbor law in Ireland in the commis sioners. Mr. SCULLY seconded the motion. Mr. MAGUIRE deprecated the conduct of the commis sioners in reference to this subject, and said that as that body had done all in their power to render themselves un popular, the Government should endeavour to reconstruct them. Colonel DICKSON condemned the conduct of the com• missioners, and contended that Mr. Fox should be rein• stated. Sir G. GREY hoped the house would not agree to the motion, which pronounced a wholesale condemnation of the Poor Law Commissioners in Ireland, of whom he possessed sufficient knowledge to be able to bear testimony to their general conduct. lie regretted, however, that they had made their report on this matter without having consulted with Mr. Otway. Mr. APCANE and Mr. E. JAMES supported the motion. After a few words from Mr. LEFROY, the house divided — For the motion of Lord Fermoy .... 49 Against ... Majority Mr. BUTT gave notice that on a future occasion he would take the opinion of the house on this subject, unless in the interval the Secretary for Ireland would take steps to have justice done to the Rev. Mr. Fox, thereby administering a rebuke ,to the Poor-law Commissioners. Mr. CARDWELL said that it was his intention to communicate with the Poor-law Commissioners, a course which he considered necessary from what had taken place. SUPPLY. The house then went into committee of supply. On the vote of £39,597 to defray the expenses of the works going on at the Houses of Parliament, Some discussion took place relative to the statues and incidental expenses of the works now proceeding. Mr. CO WPER said that considerable expense was unavoidably incurred under the system of Dr. Reid in warming and ventilating the Houses of Parliament, which could not at present be remedied. The Fine Arts Com mission had made a report, but he believed they did not say anything relative to the erection of a statue to Crom well, and he did not know whether the statues of the Kings were to commence with the Norman conquest or prior to that period. £7,000 had been voted for coating the exte rior of the houses, and the description of the material se lected was according to the recommendation of Dr. Fara day. The cost of the coating would be one shilling per square foot. Lord FERMOY said that members had not a single room in the house where they could see their friends, and suggested that three or four of the committee rooms should be appropriated to the purpose. It being 10 minutes to 4 o'clock, the debate was abruptly terminated, and the house resumed. REFRESHMENT HOUSES AND WINE LICENSES (IRELAND) BILL. This bill was road a third time and passed. SAVINGS BANKS AND FRIENDLY SOCIETIES INVESTMENTS BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. STAMP DUTIES (No. 2) BILL. This bill was read a second time. The sitting was suspended at 4 o'clock. The house resumed at 6 o'clock. THE. NEUTRALISED PROVINCES OF SAVOY. Lord J. MANNERS begged to be allowed to put a ques tion to the noble lord the Foreign Secretary respecting the proposed conference with reference to the neutralised pro vinces of Savoy. On the 25th of June last he believed the house was informed that the English Government had ac ceded to the proposals which had been made by the French Government for the appointment of a conferonce to settle how the arrangements connected with the annexation of the northern provinces of Savoy should be carried out. He begged, then, to ask the noble lord as to the time when, the place where, and the mode in which such conference would be held. Lord J. RUSSELL said that the noble lord had stated quite correctly that her Majesty's Government had accepted a proposal for a conference. That proposal, together with two ether modes of settlement, were submitted to the great powers by the French Government; andher Majesty's• G overnment immediately accepted the proposal for a confer- once. But the Governments of Austria and Prussia stated that for various reasons they thought there would be no ad vantage in assembling a conference. There had been no Meeting of the great Powers since, nor had any time been submitted as to when the Conference should be held. There. fore so the matter must remain until those two great Powers withdrew their opposition, or until some other pro- posal should be made. THE DISTURBANCES IN SYRIA. Mr. RICH rose to call attention to the papers respecting the disturbances in Syria, and more especially to the tele- graphic despatch (No. 20) of the consul at Smyrna, of the 11th July, and also to the despatch from the Admiralty (No. 21), covering the reports of Captain Paynter, of her Majesty's ship Exmouth, off Beyrout ; and to ask a ques tion thereon of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. The honourable member contended that the official despatches proved that the Druses were the ag gressors, and that though warned of their intentions to act as they had done, the Turkish Government had taken no steps to protect either the lives or property of the Chris- tians. lie wished to ask Lord J. Russell what course the Government proposed to adopt in this emergency ? Sir JAMES FERGUSSON said he believed that the Christians were originally wrong in this matter, and he was glad that the Government were sending out a commission to Syria to inquire into it. Mr. DARBY GRIFFITH put a question to the Secre tary of State for Foreign Affairs in relation to Garibaldi's expedition, and asked for as much information as to the views of the Government on the subject as the noble could consistently give. After a few words from Mr. S. FITZGERALD, Lord 3. RUSSELL—My hon. friend has stated very ac curately from the papers upon the table, and from the accounts that have appeared in the newspapers, the facts of the massacres that have taken place in Syria. It is, there fore, unnecessary for me to go into any fuller detail, but the house will naturally expect that I should state what has been done by her Majesty's Government and the Turkish Government in consequence of those acts, which show so much cc aelty on the part of those tribes, and so much negligence, to say the least, on the part of the Turkish governors. The last accounts we have received state that the massacres have to a great extent ceased, and that order had been restored in Damascus. Fund Pacha had at the date of those accounts arrived at Damascus, and the late governor, who showed such culpable negli gence and appeared to be so indifferent to the mur ders of the Christians, never interfering at all while those murders were going on, and who it was said might with 100 men have stopped the disturbances—that pacha has been sent to Constantinople to be tried. The report we have received from Sir H. Bulwer is to the effect that he has been sent back to Damascus where the wit nesses lived, but that there is no disposition, on the part of the Porte to show any undue lenity to him, or to screen him from justice and the severe punishment he deserved. (Hear, hear.) The Porte had sent at different times not only Fuad Pacha, a man of great energy, but no fewer than 25,000 troops. It appears to be true that on the 10th ultimo there was a sort of peace or truce signed between the Druses and the Maronites, and one of the terms of it was that there should be no inquiry into past transactions on the part of the Maronites, and that all attacks should cease. Now the hen. gentleman the mem ber for Ayr was perfectly justified in saying that, in re gard to the atrocities that had taken place, we are not to consider the Maronite Christians as perfectly defenceless, and not able to attack their neighbours; but, on- the con trary, the Maronites and Druses, being both armed, and bitterly hostile to each other, the question was which at tacked the other first ? But undoubtedly great atrocities were practised by the Druses upon the Christians, and the lives of thousands of the latter have been sacrificed. Such have been the proceedings on the part of the Porte ; but now with regard to the Christian powers. When these accounts were first received the French Government pro posed there should be a commission of inquiry, and that that commission should not be limited to Turkish officials and Turkish commissioners, but that European commis sioners should be appointed to act upon it. That they should endeavour to search out and ascertain who were the authors of those massacres, and also to suggest measures calculated to secure peace for the future. To that proposi tion not only her :Majesty's 'Government and the other powers of Europe, but the Porte also willinglyassented, and it was determined that the commission so constituted should issue. But on the receipt of further accounts from Damascus of the attack upon the house of the French Consul, and upon the convents specially protected by France, the French Government represented to us that they did not wish to take up any separate cause or to ask for reparation for any separate injury or insult, but that they wished the Powers of Europe seriously to consider whether the evil was not of such magnitude, and whether the acts perpetrated were not so horrible, as to form a ground for the Powers taking up the case conjointly and endeavouring to devise some means to prevent the recurrence of such scones. I must say the Russian Government said at once, "We think there should be no separate action. No one Power should act alone, but whatever is done should be done by general consent." The French Government teroposed that a Eu ropean force should be sent out at once to Syria, with a view to strengthen the Turks, and to enable them to take effec tual measures for the purpose of pacification. This is a matter, no doubt, of very great importance, which one cannot say is without its danger, but it seems to be dic tated by the necessities of the ease, and her Majesty's Go vernment read , ly agreed to consider with the other Powers what ought to be done on that subject. The negotiations caused some delay, and there were questions with regard to the form of the resolutions to which the Powers should agree. It was finally agreed upon that, in the shape of a protocol, provisions should be made for sending European troops to Syria. I have received accounts from Paris at 3 o'clock this day, stating that a protocol had been signed by the representatives of the five Powers and of the Sultan. The nature of the protocol —or it may be the two protocols —that have been signed will be to the following effect : That the European Powers agree, upon the representation of the Sultan, that he wishes for the aid of his allies in order to restore tranquillity in Syria; that a body not exceeding 12,000 men should be sent to Syria. The next article provides that one-half of these troops should be furnished by France, and that immediately after the signing of the protocol they should be empowered to em bark. It is provided when they arrive there their move ments shall be in concert with the commissioners of the Porte, and that the Sultan on his side shall take every means to furnish provisions and facilities for the march of the troops. It is also provided by the protocol that the st - ay of the foreign troops in Syria shall not be prolonged beyond six months, for it is believed that the object sought to be attained can be accomplished within that time. The right hon. gentleman (Mr. S. Fitzgerald) 'asked whether there were representations on the part of Russia on this sub ject, and whether they did not cause some delay in the signing of the protocols. With regard to the substance of this ques tion it certainly was the view of the Russian Government that the five Powers, with the Sultan, should turn their serious attention to this subject, with a view of ameliorating the condition cf the Christians in European Turkey and Turkey generally. It is stated that the powers acting with the Porte remembered the engagements which were entered into in 1856, and that they engaged with the Sultan that measures of amelioration should be taken. I must say that Sit H. Bulwer having sent a series of queries to the various consuls in European Turkey received some answers show ing great intelligence and knowledge of that country, but without showing that the government of the Sultan was tyrannical or oppressive, yet also showing that there are a number of abuses in the government difficult of remedy, but also some easy of remedy, and therefore justifying Russia in the prvosal she had made. But the proposal was in the most general terms, and it will not j ustify any intervention of any foreign power in any future case—all future cases to be left to their own merits. There was no provision for the future, and, according to the ap peal of her Majesty's Government, it would be most improvident and most dangerous to make any provi sion for the future by which there should be any interference with the government of the Sultan, There is besides a pro tocol declaring, in the terms of the protocol of 1840, that in interfering in the affairs of Turkey none of those Powers should seek for any additional territory, or any exclusive influence, or any separate commercial advantage. In the difficult and perilous condition of the Turkish empire, and the necessity there seems to be that the rowers of Europe should from time to time interfere in some way with the condition of that empire, it seems to her Majesty's Govern ment, and I believe it is the general opinion of the Powers of Europe that the only path of safety lies in concert and combination between the nations, not seeking separate ad vantages, but endeavouring to point out to the Porte in what manner his throne may be best made secure, and sa tisfaction be given to all his subjects, Christians as well as Turks. The task is a most difficult one, and nothing but the most disinterested conduct on the part of the Powers, as well as the inclination of the Sultan to adopt the forms which are necessary, will enable us to conduct it with safety. At the same time, while advice is given and reforms are sug gested, it is necessary that the ultimate exe6ution of those powers should be in the hands of officers appointed by the Porte. If the Powers were to admit of any interference there is this great danger always attendant upon that ques- tion, that when there appears to be an executive interfer ence on the part of European Powers, the Mahommedans consider that they on their side have been betrayed, and the whole empire might be involved in bloodshed. That is one great difficulty. The protocal has, however, been signed, and when it is received I shall lay it upon the table; but I trust to the forbearance of the house in not asking for papers as to what has taken place. We must endeavour, according to our views of policy, to do what seems to us best to preserve the peace of Europe, and to rule the state of Turkey. But until something is settled I trust we shall not be called upon for these papers. With respect to the question of the hon. member for Devizes, I do not think I can add anything to what I formerly stated. We have laid down the broad line with respect to the South of Italy that we do not propose to interfere by force with a view to prevent the Italians from settling their government in their own way, and the Governments of Great Britain and France are determined not to interfere. (Hear.) Mr. BRIGHT said, considering the position of the noble lord who had just sat down, he was not disposed to find fault with the explanation he had made, or with regard to the intervention which was about to take place. Probably there was no intervention within our memory which could be so well excused, because it took the aspect of the move of a police force rather than that of any body of troops with any special political object. But he had seen with satisfac tion what appeared to him the moderate and fair course which had been pursued by different Governments in re gard to this very difficult question, and he hoped the course which had been pursued by the French Government, so far as they could judge from what they read, would be an _ _ other ground for lessening the distrust entertained of that Power. The hon member for Horsham (Mr. S. Fitzgerald), in putting his question to the noble lord, expressed his be .. _ _ _ _ _ lief that the noble lord was as strong as ever he was in the intention of maintaining the integrity of the Turkish em pire. But he (Mr. Bright) had risen for the purpose of en tering his protest against any such policy. He knew some what of the difficulty of the position of the noble lord the Foreign Secretary. We had been supporting the Sultan for a considerable period, and hitherto with very indifferent success. (Hear.) It was notorious that in the whole of that part of Asia which had been under an Egyptian pacha there was perfect tranquillity throughout the land, and travellers might pass with security ; but when that authority was withdrawn the country returned to its former state, and to the state of anarchy in which it now was. He (Mr. Bright) objected to this country interfering to preserve a country which was doomed to extinction. Coming down to the sad calamity of the Crimean war, he could say that he expressed his disapprobation of that war at the time on these grounds, that they were about to expend untold mil lions of treasure and thouiands of lives in what must be an impossible task ; and yet they rushed into it as if the thing was of easy achievement. He remembered that a noble lord in the other house made a speech to show that the Ma hommedans were better Christians in their practices than the Russians themselves. He remembered that the noble lord at the head of the Government, who was not particular in what he stated when he had an object to induce the house to take a certain course, also made a speech, in which he said he believed there was no country in Europe in which improvement and improved administration had made such progress in the last 20 years as Turkey and the Government of Turkey. He did not assume that the noble lord did not believe that to be true, but if he did he was the only man in Europe at all acquainted with Turkish affairs who did believe it. After they had made war, then, and chastised Russia, they came now, seven years after the commence ment of that war, and they found Turkey in a worse condi tion of anarchy than when they first meddled with it. That war, moreover, destroyed whatever Turkey had of a fleet or army, and it left the financial condition of the countrymore embarrassed than it was before. That war, moreover, de preciated and stained in the eye of the Mahommedon popu lation the dignity of the Sultan, which they had been ac customed to regard so highly ; and then we had maintained upon the throne of Turkey a man totally incapable of doing any single thing in the way of government. They heard a few months back that the Sultan had issued severe orders connected with the finances; that was all pretence, done with the iew of sending up the price of Turkish stock in the markets of Europe, and to force people to believe that there was going to be some improvement ; but there was no improvement made. They sometimes heard of a wedding in the .Sultan's family or the families of the great pachas, the extravagance of which could hardly be credited, but they beard from all sides that there was growing up in that country distrust and hatred of the Government, and that the very men who were receiving the wages of the Sultan would not lift their hands to stay the shedding of the blood of our fallow-Christians, and to some extent our co religionists. He (Mr. Bright) was speaking lately to a gen tleman who knew Turkeywell, and who said that five years would not pass over—perhaps not half that time—before the Turks themselves would rise up and pull down a Go - vernment which had no power or dignity. After all we had suffered and lost in the Crimea in endeavouring to secure Turkey, should we be led again into a struggle with any nation in Europe with a view to maintaining this decaying and doomed empire ? It appeared to him there were only two modes of avoiding this : either an entire abstention of the powers of Europe from interforing--shat might, of course, be followed by a sanguinary struggle in European and Asiatic Turkey—or, if the European powers could agree as to what should be done—not for maintaining the Turkish empire, which he held to be absolutely impossible—but if there could be a separate government organised for Syria, independent of Constantinople, that would be still better ; but in the name of common sense and common humanity, let the powers abstain from trying to permanently sustain a Government which everybody thinks cannot be sustained. He was most anxious that England should hold aloof from that policy. He repeated that it was a mistake to imagine that the pretended power of the Sultan can be supported, by all that was to be done at the expense of the taxes raised from the English people, and by shedding the blood of Englishmen in endeavouring to accomplish that which was impossible. (Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON—The hon. gentleman says that I am not at all particular in making statements when I have any object to gain. I think that I may return the compli ment—(laughter)---with this difference, that upon some questions connected with foreign affairs I happen from a variety of circumstances to be rathcr better informed than the hon. gentleman, and more especially with respect to this question of Syria. I take leave to say that with respect to this question I derive my information from a long super intendence of the Foreign department, whilst the hon. member derives his from persons with whom he has come in contact, who from their race and prejudices are not the most trustworthy advisers on the matters to which he had referred. The hon. member says that I stated on a former occasion that no country in Europe in the same space of time has made the same progress that the Turkish empire had done since the death of the Sultan Mahmoud. I repeat that assertion with the utmost deliberation, and with the most perfect knowledge of what I am saying. (Hear, hear.) I am sure that anyone who has any knowledge of the state of things in Turkey will confirm this assertion I have just made —anyone who speaks impartially, free from prejudices, and with large and enlightened views. (Cheers ,and laughter.) I give every credit to the hon. member for perfect sincerity, but I must say that he has taken a very limited view of the question on which he has been speaking. It is easy to say that the Turkish Empire will fall to pieces, snd that before this takes place you must arrange what you will do witb the fragments. If the foreign powers were to adopt the course which the hon. gentleman suggests, and arrange before hand what they will do with the fragments of the Turkish empire, it is not very likely that after such a partition it would last very much longer. (Hear, hear.) Although there is an immense progress to be made to bring Turkey up to the pointof any European nation, and although in looking at Turkey we are too apt to think upon what remains to be done, rather than on what has been accomplished, still my own opinion is that if the Turkish empire is left to itself, free from foreign interference, except by' good advice and support, it will not fall to pieces so soon as the hon. member fancies. (Cheers.) It is easy to say, you must make some pre parations for the fall of Turkey, but has the hon. member ever considered what the practical effect will be on the ba lance of power in Europe, if that arrangement which he so earnestly advocates, were to be made ? In this respect, I must say that the honourable member takes a very li mited view. He sees only the evils of the present day, and entirely shuts his eyes to the greater and more serious evils which must result from the policy which he recom mends. This is a question of very great importance, and it cannot be discussed on the motion for adjournment until Monday, and I only protest against the easy adoption of the maxims and plicy of the hon. member, in which I beg to assure him there are involved very grave and serious con sequences, which must infallibly result from the course of policy which he urges. (Hear.) The subject then dropped. SUPERANNUATION OF DOCKYARD LABOURERS. Sir F. BARING asked the Secretary of the Admiralty what course the Admiralty intend to pursue respecting the superannuation of the dockyard labourers on the establish ment, and called the attention of the house to their case. Lord C. FAGET said this matter was fully argued when the Superannuation Act was before the house, and when the act passed the late Treasury was asked whether estab lished labourers were to be entitled to a pension from the superannuation fund ; the Treasury did not reply to the question, and the present Treasury sent to the Admiralty to give their opinion as to whether this class of labourers was entitled to a superannuation allowance. The Admi ralty thought not, and if there was any one to blame it w as the late Government in consequence of the ambiguous way in which the act was worded. CHINESE INDEMNITY. Mr. GREGSON asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the two millions of taels on account of losses sustained by British subjects, and tho further sum of two millions of taels on account of the expenses of the war, as stipulated for by the treaty of Tien-sin, was in the course of ay mn t • e an d called the att ention of th e Chancellor o f the Exchequer to the increas ed abilit y of C hina to pay a pecuniary indem nity. He wished to know whether there was any arrange ment for compensating British subjects for their losses in China. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said no portion of the money had been paid. The Fren c h h a d, however, received between £300,000 and £400,000. Their treaty, however, stipulated for a certain time and place a of payment, which ours did not. As to the propriety of taking it out of the customs duties received by British agents, that was a question for his noble friend at the head of the Foreign -office. They must hope for the best, and look for a speedy termination of the affair. FORTIFICATIONS AND WORKS. On tho bringing up of the report on fortifications and wot ks, Admiral WALCOTT said he did not rise to oppose the reception of the report, but to urge upon the Government the immense importance of adding to the strength of our navy in the shape of gunboats and steam rams. He was aware that in advocating that view he might be twitted by the Premier that he was advocating "nothing like leather," but when they looked at the vital importance of maintain ing our command in the Channel, the 'gravity of the ques tion could not be overrated. Mr. WILLIAMS, as one of the few who voted against the resolution, said that if he thought there was any danger he would be the last man to do so ; but he was convinced that coast defences now were so great as to render any in vasion impossible. Sir J. PAKINGTON would support the Government in respect to the proposed fortifications. To carry out these fortifications would make an increased barrack accommoda tion necessary, and he hoped the Government would esta blish naval barracks and naval drill. Our naval organisa tion was most defective, and he hoped the Government would see that it was improved, so as to have what was called a standing navy. Naval officers complained of the present system, and he hoped his suggestions on this sub ject would be attended to by the Government. Lord C. PAGET entirely agreed with the right hon. baronet in reference to naval barracks and naval drill, and he had to express his surprise that the right hon. gentle man did not act upon these suggestions when he was in power as First Lord of the Admiralty. The resolutions were agreed to. SUPPLY. The house went into committee of supply, and the de bate was resumed on the item of 439,500 for the expenses of the new Houses of Parliament. Mr. SMITH complained of the very unsatisfactory war in which this question was brought before the house. He particularly alluded to their being asked for money for fuel and lights along with the money for lands. Would any private individul lump together his items for coals and gas with the money he spent in the purchase of farms ? Why was the furniture of the Houses of Parliament sepa rated from the furniture of the other public offices ? Ho complained amongst other things of the statues to be erected, costing £BOO each. This vote was for £39,500, but last year it was £58,000, none of which had been leaned from the Exchequer. They had therefore £98,000 in hand to meet an expenditure of some £40,000. lie should take the sense of the house on this subject, for if the Government had those large sums at their command, it would naturally make them indifferent to the necessity of bringing on these matters early in the session. Mr. E. JAMES said that the house ought to know who were to execute these two statues spoken of as having been ordered at a cost of £BOO each ; and they ought to knout also who were to be selected as the subjects of these sta' tues. (Hear, hear.) Were the British sovereigns to be taken chronologically ? Were they to begin at the Normal& Conquest, or earlier, or when ? (Hear.) Were they to have a statue of Oliver Cromwell ? (Hear.) The Presi dent of the Board of Works was not very distinct on this point, and he should like an explicit reply. (Hear.) He understood that certain Commissioners of the Fine Arta had reported against having a statue of Oliver Cromwell. The right hon. gentleman gave no opinion of his own en this point, but contented himself with saying that this wal not the proper time for discussing the subject. This was 0 question which appealed to the feelings of the whole Bri tish people. He would not ask whether the statue of Oliver Cromwell should be between the statues of Charles the First and Charles the Second. He thought it should possibly stand alone, towering over the statues of the legitimate sovereigns of England. (Hear, and criesoof « Oh, oh.") Sir G. BOWYER could not understand the admiration of the hon. and learned gentleman for Oliver Cromweill who was a great tyrant and a regicide, who cut off the head of his sovereign, Charles the First, and who shut UP the House of Commons. (Hear, hear, and Oh, oh.) lit could not understand how the statue of such a man 61101 11 ' 1 be placed in the Palace at 'Westminster. Mr. BENTINCK wanted an explanation with reference to a vote which - was asked, upwards of £4,000, for the do' coration of the Palace of Westminster. He thought the Fine Arts Commission had got quite as rauch money hand as they ought to expend. Mr. COWPER hoped that at that reriod of the session they would not discuss the historical character of Cron' well. The proposal of the Fine ATts Commission was ° begin with the later sovereigns, e.nd therefore any disune sion on the merits of Cromwell was premature. At th e rate of two sovereigns a y ear —( a laugh)—it would b e some time before they came to Oliver Cromwell. The artiste proposed to be employed were Thorneycroft and Field There were also Mr. Herbert and Mr. Maclise, whose Anal° and labour, and skill were equally commendable. il l March there was £107,000 t o th e cred i t of the ;rouge s o f Parliament, and that would be applied to the purposes for which it wus voted. It would be perfectly irregular V,. deduct the unexpen d ed balance from the present vote. 1 " ought to be returned to the Consolidated Fund. He Pr°. posed that they should purchase a site fer stables for the Speaker, somewhere in the neighbourhood of the house , suitable to the establishment which he was required maintain, and he believed that the sum asked for in the estimates would not be thought too much. They were treaty for a site. He would rather not mention the araolio they might be expected to pay for that site, as the matt er was not yet concluded ; b u t h e cou ld assure the house t l3l l t 1 the greatest economy would b e o b serve d , and that a account would be duly rendered. Mr. SPOONER moved that the vote for the collid er embellishments be reduced by £1,200. Mr. JAMES hoped the suggestion of the right li c ,„ /°. gentleman would be adopt e d, f or if t h e corridor were to 1 "' embellished according to the views of the right hon. gen ts' man, we might h ave a p i c t ure o f O l i ver Cromwell as 16' as a statue of George IV. (Laughter.) The,committee then divided, and there appeared-- For the reduction Against 67 Majority Mr. SPOONER'S motion was therefore lost. Mr. AUGUSTUS SMITH said there were large balanc e° in hand for the supply of gas, warming, and valltilatit °P &c., and now the house w as as k e d t o vote f ar the same pu „, i poses large sums without ha v i ng expen d e d the sum alrew",.. in hand. He would move, therefore, that the vote reduced by £30,597. Mr. COWPER COWPER said the object was to vote the sum r e quired out of the unexpended balance. BIG BEN. Mr. BOWYER wished to know what was to b e do e l with the cracked bell. He thought it should b e mol t of down and made into kettles. (Laughter.) H e did ri. think such a bell was required. It would only be 1 ' /111 V sauce to have it sounding every hour, Mr. MALINS was of the same opinion. 'ders" Mr. COWPER said the m a tt er was under t h e co ns 1 • tion of scientific me n , an d i t was intended that the hou r' should be struck by the quarter bells. The clock was eO2l. sidered good in every respect. The committee divided, when there appeared — For the amendment Against Majority —2B .74 The vote was then agreed to, an d th e OKA.III I re 1, - - ported progress. WAYS AND MEANS. The house went into committee of ways and means, a vote of £10,000,000 was agreed to. Sale of Gas Act Amendment (N 0.3) Bill was discharged' METROPOLIS LOCAL MANAGEMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL. 0 The motion for resuming the adj ourn ed debate on titi. bill was made at twenty-five min u t es to three o'clock, 1 after some conversation the debat e was postponed. The other business of the house was then'diaposed o f f , and the house adjourned at twenty minutes to three o'cloolf.' Premature Greyness, Weak or Fa l l ing Hair, Neuralgia Nervous Headache, Rheumatis m, Stiff Joints, drc., a re rose died with ease and certainty by HERRING's Pat en t Maglieti° Brushes and Combs. Their use Is an a b solute luxury. newly-invented Teazle Brushes for Colth, Velvet, &c., '':, ',! a dmi ra bl e —they not only c lea nse , but preserve th e fabric 0 1 , a remarkable manne r. The Ma nufactory is 32,Basingba il street, wh e public are caut i oned against counterfeits--A-1)1 BRTH & pAujEu .—On the 2d inst., at Hemsby, near Great Y, 111 ; mouth, the wile of William Denby Palmer, Esq., 4 ' l son. SALMON. —On the 2d inst., at 12, Westbourne-crescen t' Hyde-park, the wife of George Salmon, Es . m of a son. SEALE.—On th e Ist inst., the wife of William A. Se a l heir, of Br uns wick -road, Camberwell, of a son an, MARRIAGES. CUMBER. _On —On the 2d inst., at St . Palle/ Chur rr— ch, H li o/1-y, the eldest son of Isaac Morley, Esq., ° Kensington-gardens-square, Bayswater, to Mary JA B ; eldest daughter of John Cumber, Esq., of Pembridge gardens, Bayswater. PRILLIMORE—RANDoLPH.—On the 2d inst., at Ma c s Hadham, Herts, Charles Bagot, son of the late Jose% Phillimore, Esq., D.C.L., to Carolito Sophia, the see° daughter of the Rev. Thomas Randolph. DEATHS. AUSTEN.—On the 31st ult., at Doctors'-commons, MO. S. Austen, aged 59. BRAND.—On the 2d inst., John Alexander Brand, Escl-7., 22, Lloyd-square, and formerly of Richmond, SurrO t aged 74. CLARK.—On the 2d inst., at the Vicarage, Haslinglie A ldf Cambridgeshire, the Rev. William Clark, for 54 Ye 4 - curate of the above parish, aged 83. HAY.—On the 30th ult., at Woodbury, Devon, the Rea, Edward Hay, A.M., vicar of Broughton, Craven, York shire, aged 60. LONDON : Printed and Published by A lIIRDO YOUNut of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. 1 12 i Strand, in the Precinct of the Saw .y, in the coun t "' ° Middles©;, Saturday, August 4, 18( $O.