The Sun. — London, England, 1829-05-09 00:00:00

r a ot , Is I 0 1 fees Del to 170,0004 ;on the per Cents., which is now paid out of the public revenue, to 280,0001. The public now make up this fund, which failed ; but the claimants for pensions will never fail ; the fund may change, but they are unchangeable. The Wad Weight remains, while all other property is changing hands and paseirg to otter • whets- Adding these charges to the Dead Weight, which is 6 , 4 55,0001., it makes an aggregate of 6,147,000/. We are told that we cannot touch the Dead Weight or Pensions. Is it possible that we can be told the country shall not take this subject int . ) discussion, when three fourths of every man's labour is taken away from him in taxation? Can I conclude better than by quoting the Itight lion. Gentleman's words this eve ning, when lie said, speaking in terms of exuitation :—" This is the in -1 creme of the expenditure and of the income; this is the evidence of our internal prosperity, and of the contentment, ease, and cornfart of the population. There is ample ground for congratiilation in the present happy state in which we are."-.., (Cliv e r s .) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCFIEQUER—I do not rise to follo w the Honourabl e Member through all the mis representations in which he has thought proper to indulge, and which Honourable Gentlemen who were not present When I addressed the House have thought proper to cheer. --(cheers.)—The Honourable Gentleman has stated that I did not advert to the distress that prevails in the country. Is there not an honest man in the House to bear witness to the contrary?—(Cheers.) —When he quote, my ex ' pression as to the increased exports and income, the con . 'sequence of the increased consumption of the people, does he not completely misrepresent what fell from me ? I drew a pictur e of th e state of the country, as it appears stated in documents lying on the table of this House. I inferr e d the increased comforts of the people from this in creased consumption of exciseable articles, as a sign of their greater prosperity. He uses this as applied to the present thnes; and appealing to the Spitalfielda weavers, makes an oration to them, which, if the individuals were here, would, in all prob ihility, excite them against me. He takes my statement of one year and applies it to another P eriod. I protest against any such misrepresentation, and -beg that when he reads any passage from my speeches again, that he will not apply to one state of things what I applied to another. I say I did state there was distress ; but having to submit a question relative to the revenue and exp en di ture of the past year and the estimates of the 'present year, I did not wish to diverge into that which ' would be a very fit and important subject of inquiry by itself. I will not follow it any furth e r at present ; but I Wag anxious, without loss of time, to protest against the kierepreeentation, which I am bound to say I believe was *tt intentional, but certainly as ample as ever I heard in :M t his House from any individual, even from the Honourable ember himself.—(Cheers.) Mr. HUME.—No man can more extremely ragret than I nYttelf if I have improperly represented the Right Hon. Gentleman's sentiments ; but I leave it to the House how far I mi sapp li ed his statement, and how far he dwelt on the smitten of the country, He sat down with these words : I the distress as a passing.cloud early to disap- Pears and leave the country to a state of transcendent pro sperity." Whether this will not bear the interpretation I put Upon it, th e H ouse must judge. It appears to me to treat the distress merely as a cloud that obscures the sir in Pausin g , but which will soon disappear, and then the ea nntrY will rise from its difficulties to more prosperity than ever--(Cheers-) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—I will merely observe, that the Hon. Gentleman misrepresents mestill; the very passage he quotes shows that I admitted there, was some pressure. As to the metaphor of ".tran 7nnsut some it may be very good, but it is not l ame, and I will not rob the Hon. Gentleman of a word. c W hat I said was, that the country was in a period of dif nitY but I expressed my hope that it would not last very .--(Hear, hear.) Alderman WAITHMAN admitted that there was I-degree of excitement in the silk trade ; but he had ! w ill advised the workmen not to quarrel with their 4n Ployers. He gave credit to th e Ri g h t H on. Gentleman Ise the clearness of his speech ; he threw no fault on the Ni'llsent Administration, who did pretty much like their eeessors, and, indeed, were treading in the beaten path kith.rnore than he wished them to do. He did not wish :hit he ch ange o f Ad ministration, for he frankly owned whit he did not bee how the country could be benefited by it,. • He, as a Member of that House, was expressing his 1 14 a ., ion, and he trusted he was not throwing it away. He a d not think it di sreputable for his Itlajeety' s Minister, L attend to' what M em b ers sa id , and sometimes even to ," l ew thei r advice.. The Right H onoura bl e Gentleman toth4l4 certainly given aortae very flourishing description at e en d of his speech, as to the state of prosperity he icipates.- He (Mr. Alderman Waithmatt), one day, Matter of amusement, ha I waded through the King's on th e to the H ouse , an d h e found passages in every e.in the 'same tone as to the eternally increasing prospe " land`ril. there was a li tt l e di stress, i t was treate d Passing cloud, and as a temporary matter : this was so remarkable, that the tail of any one speech would ibietlotongaedby. other just as well as to the one one to which it The Right Hon. Gent. had described the year 1 , 82 8 ad one of prosperity. *Now that was certainly not the" e ase. He had talked of the floniishing specimens of '0.0; enterprise, energy,skill, and capital of the coun trY; but where was it tobefound ? What hail become of thoee.valuable qualities in the labouring elegises? It teas the duty of that House to inquire into the causes of the distresa. He denied that the trade of this country had i anyg advantage over that of other countries. He main -I,lned that every branch of trade had flourishinl in propor tion as it had been protected. How could it be expected that the country could be in a thriving state while his fi ea tY's Minist ers a d m i tted the produce of foreign coon tile to compet e w i t h t h e manufactures at home, while tt lere Was no reciprocity to the system pursued by other Ponntries ?--(Cries of " bar, bar !" and "order, order.")__ li e held in his hand a paper which he had taken the trouble , t o draw up from the official ret urns t h at had been made to yarliainent. The Worthy Alderman then rocee e d to c ontend, fr om t h e i tems contained in the follo p wing d docu- Stela, that. there was nothing in the result of the free-trad e %tem to justify the Ministers in pursuing the same course ; trtd that as long as it was p ers i s t e d i n, there were no hopes c ' t i th Of lt e prospects of the country improving : tPora NIANUFACTURES and PRODUCE of the UNITED KING b". ftorn 1814 to 1828 inclusive, with Official and Declared or Ye ar ,. (218 al Real 1 ....,....... value. Value. I Difference. ..—_____ 1814 X.-3--"----- -------- .- 1 isits ~..092,167 £ 47,831,151 £11,759,;286 , 1816 11 0,, 053,455 53,217,445 9,163,990 1 Excess of Peal Official jar- ..,7.,_14,555 42,942,951 9,228.398 1 over 181 g ' ''''.. w 3.610 42,955,256 6, 257 ,G48 )" Value 1811 to 1819 4 ;,564 43,626,253 4ft 626 253 2,067,663 1820 -5511t51.0.14, 4 - 8,903,760 4,139,716 £41,521,79.1. .1821 .1821 1-4%1,15 37 330,506 1,703,091 :1822 , .40,240.2(77 3419 ein 1,620,330 1 1823 114811.744 361659'63; 4,172,113 „ Excess of Orli -1,1124 '41,t ° 0 5 33 .16.,' '96454 7.268,56'' cial over Real ' 5 25 . --.`"" 07 2 35 438'048 8,346,32/ Value 1821 to 1146 2,48;735,5.51 38'396:3049 10,339,251 1828 inclusive, 1857 ..965.735 31:536,723 9.429,012 x80,53,%795. +Bta 15219,29,0 37 1 82 857 15,036,423 )3 • "41797.455 5414176 , 15 , 983 , 219 '` 64 tali.. _ v. , above Official, 1614 to 1320 In £41,521,795 `stlicial, 1821 to 1828 83,213,769 el 2-1,698,076 fore 1827 with a, 36,462,019 in this manner, an however, that from peculiar very high, and that the average o. reached only about 600,0001. Although, fairly anticipated an increase, he had thought it ta.. take it, as the Hon. Baronet would find, at 500,0001., which was the sum set down in the present estimate. have e_ Mr. ALEXANDER BARING did not think, in con- accounts. It sidering the Budget, that the House could fairly enter chequer. It would into the discussion of that greater and still more important tions of the burden of taxa.— question to which the document of the Worthy Alderman down all the estimates of the ptiaita (Waithman) referred, namely, the cause of that distress vernment, however, had determined that the and gloom which pervaded all branches of our trades and should no longer exist. The Government had der,_ manufactures. He would just say, with reference to that th it they would do what the Committee would otherwise - part of the subject, that the alterations connected with have done. If they really did so, they would de- stack-, the transition from a state of war to that of peace—the serve well of their country ; but he confessed enable them to circumstances connected with the change in the currency that he was rather sceptical on that point. time the exports ban —the difference in the value of the raw material of our He understood the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exche- been found ? 'Why, during ~ manufactures at the two different periods, cotton being in titter to state, that there was a surplus of above three mil- ported from England to France-- the time of war one-half dearer, and wool two-thirds; lions applicable as a Sinking Fund to the reduction of the siderable quantities were sent; and any these things, when fairly considered, might go far to ac- debt. He (Mr. Maberly) had no objection to the opera- had examined the tables would have drawn the count for much of the embarrassment which they now ex- tion of a Sinking Fund—except as it was abused—and as traordinary conclusion, that our agriculture never was perieaced, although he did not think the question could be it semetimes induced Ministers to abstain from reducing more flourishing, nor our farmers more prosperous, There eve,. ait ly mixed up with the Budjet. To the Chancellor of the Estimates, and to maintain them at what was properly for they were not only able to supply our own mar- the books of the the Exchequer, who had laid before the House the finan- the War Establishment. If, in 1517, a searching inquiry ket, but to send corn to France. In the same way our at least, a tangible existe cial condition,:he was disposed to give every praise. His had been made into our financial condition and resources, ship-owners were driving the Russian and Prussian ships the Exchequer had at least as statement had been clear and satisfactory, when coin- he had no doubt that we might have reduced our taxation :away from our ports, notwithstaneiing the greater prices debt inscribed in the books of the Ballh. pared with some of those the House had frequently been three millions a year more than we had done. But we they paid, by their excessive poverty obliging them to con- Learned Member said Exchequer Bills might compelled to Fasten to, and which resembled more the had not adhered even to the recommendation of the Fi- sent to lie emPloyed on any terms. I will refer back to but the Bank of England will at any time take charga effusions of the Poet Laureate than the explanat'ons of a nance Committee of that period. By gross mismanage- still more painful realities, to be found in the state of Ire- the Exchequer Bills of individuals, and of course they will ta. Financier. The Right Honourable Gentleman, in that went we had increased our debt, -and had imposed on the land. If there was one year in which Ireland was not in he more ready to do this for a public company. The early (it a statement, seemed to wish it to be believed that the country a long-continued and unnecessary taxation. It a state of prosperity, it was in 1822. In that year not less Bank of England would take charge of Exchequer Bills for heard. He hat. , surplus of the year was upwards of three millions ; but was evident that we could not go on as we were now going a sum thee 600,000/. was collected from the charity of any'ntan. From the nature of the case, upon due eonsidera- upon Ministers the prep.. he apprehended that the 500,000/. for the Dead weight on; but that we must greatly eeduce • bath our taxation England—she herself being distressed—to relieve the still tion, any man acting as a guardian would vest his money in they were now porsoing.—e-t.-- must be deducted from that sum, and that the available and our establishments. He could 'Point out tWo or three greater distress of Ireland. But if we lock to the exports Exchequer Hills, in preference to vesting it in the Three per interruption is continued, I shall certa,- surplus was, therefore, little better than two millions establishments, the consolidation •of which Would be at• of Ireland fur that year, we shall find a proof of ;ts being Cents. Let piddle. trustees not be placed under the necessity of motion for an adjournment of the debate. and a half. 1.-le confessu d, when he heard the Right tended with great saving' lie allowed that there was inure prosperous than usual in the increased account of its vesting their money in the Three per Cents., or in Ex- Hon. Members below the Bar (as I see there are) Hon. Gentleman express a disposition to remit taxes, be ;rent difficulty attendant on the task of rattanchment ; and exports It was a more extraordinary (rad a more brilliant chequer m ; but let there be some officer, who in each there without a wish to take a part in the business ;rent• • - _ - before . . _ AIWA, M A tn A - - . . _ _ _ _ 36,442,019 stole trona con is e ' n th e ir laittra s to fill the mouths with food? Li t!e- t: c I t-t twelve years there had been a loss of Iso .:m . lit ne in the export trade ; nor did the matter stop 10-re, fur in the ce:etiiel prduce, also, there had been a to off during the last eight years: the cause of all o:is teas, that :he Mini.-ers of Parliament had been holding out all Corte of tl,lueive hopes to the people, while the real fact was, that not one single point of commerce had proved favorable to the manufacturer. It was very clear to him that the country could not go on in the way it was now going on in. (Hear, hear.) Taxes kept their station, while all property, and capital and pro duce deteriorated, so that the effect was, that we had double taxes to pay, while the prices of commodities re mained the same. As to the Revenue of the country, he would frankly confess that it would have been no satisfac tion to him even had the Chancellor of the Exchequer been able to state that he had got five millions more than he wanted. (During the course of the Worthy Alder man's observations the Committee was very inattentive, and the Chairman had frequent occasion to call it to order, and to request Hon. Members to take their seats.) Colonel DAVIES—Though he agreed, in a great men. sure, with what had fallen from the Worthy Alderman, he would never recommend to that House, as he had done, the adoption of further prohibitory duties. It was, how ever, impossible not to entertain the most gloomy antici pations for the future from the actual state of the country, :111(1 from the extraordinary indifference which the House had manifested toe-arils a question of this important na ture.—(Hear, hear.)—ln his opinion, the Right Hon. Gentleman, in his statement to the Comieittee, had omitted to mention the primary cause of the excessive taxation under which tha country was labouring-. If the Right Hon. Gent. was right in his statement, how was it that the foreigner, after having to contend against the duties levied upon his goods, or the risk he runs by smuggling, was able to come into England and undersell the manufac tures of the country in our own market Instead of gain ing ground, this country had been gradually losing it ever since the peace. At that period, there was a prejudice all over the Continent in favour of this country ; but now, the:foreigner, by strenuously working up hill, had at least put himself on an equal footing with us, and would, no doubt, soon be able to outstrip us in all competition. It was true that we once had a constitutional superiority, but were there not other nations now as free as we? France, the Netherlands, and Bavaria bad representative Govern ments, and in other countries were afforded ample oppor tunities for the encouragement of industry, and fur the development of the faculties of man.—(Hear, hear.)—He wished to call the attention of the Committee more particularly to France and the United States. The popu lation of France was thirty millions, and the taxes of that country amounted to forty millions sterling; this sum, in cluding not only the Government expenses of the country, but also the provision made for the Clergy, for the schools of primary instruction, for the roads, he. ; this assessment was et the rate of IL 6s. per head. In the United States, the population was between ten and eleven millions, and the taxes were rather more than five millions sterling, so that there the assessment (lid not amount to more than 1 Os p -r head ; and General Jackson, in his late inaugural speech had declared this to be too large, et the same time express ing his intention of embracing the earliest opportunity of reducing it. The taxes in this country amounted to sixty millions, to which were to be added twelve millions for the poor rates and parish rates, besides the receipts of the Esta blished Church, and what was paid by Catho i lies and Dissen ters ; so that he believed he was not overstating the amount when he a lid that the taxes of this country amounted to 80 millions, or in other words, 41. per head, being eight times more than the amount in the United States, and three times more titan the amount in France. But this was not all : the amount was going on increasing at a rate sufficient to appal the stoutest heart. In 1764, the amount of taxes was 7,759,0001. in Great Britain and in Ireland, about 1,000,000/. of which, after deducting what was required ' for the debt, there remained 1,000,0001. for the current expenditure of the country. In the year 1790, the taxes amounted to 17,000,0001., of which 6,123,000/. went to the current expenditure. But what was our present situa tion ? The total amount of taxes was 63,604,0001., of which nineteen millions and a half went to the Military, Naval, and Miscellaneous Contingencies, the Civil I.ist, &c. It was no answer to this statement to say that the value of money was changed; for though it was true that the money-price of articles was enhanced, yet that was it self owing to the enormous amount of taxation; and lie would venture to say, that if they went to the continent they would find that the money-price of the nece,sities of life wae not materially altered. In 1922, when there had been a great pressure upon the country, Parliament had exerted itself, and had effected a reduction in the expendi ture of the country, but all this was now again done away with, and we were in as bad a state as ever; for the ex penditure, which, in that year was reduced to 16,647,7631. last year, amounted to 19,548,500/.—(Hear, hear.)—The principle of all the demands of those who are suffering un der the present depression, was nothing less than this : ax our neighbours, because we ourselves are taxed. As long as the distressed trades maintained this principle, they could have no hope of relief; but he would recommend them not to petition the House, either for the reduction of their own taxes or for the imposition of taxes on their neighbours, but at once openly and manfully to call public meetings, and to pass resolutions instructing their consti tuents upon the course they desired them to adopt. Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY approved, to a certain ex tent, of the system of life annuities which the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) proposed, although he feared very much that the funding of the Ex. chequer Bills would absorb the whole amount applicable to the Sinking Fund. He could not avoid saying he heard with some surprise the statements of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with rtsret to the additional revenue he expects from the duties on malt and spirits; and he was derstood from authority, that the Bill which passed to re the more surprised to hear that statement, because he un gulate the malt trade, had been found by the maltsters to be so oppressive and inconvenient, that it put a Stop alto gether for a time to the trade of molting. If the Chancel lor of the Exchequer felt himself compelled to levy new . taxes, let him come down to the House of Commons (the a nd say so at once, but do not let i rnz n l i ts l t e e v r y s s ex o ( o -la o in r ie), 4 (I 60 ,000/. more than he was entitled to by consent of Parliament. At this moment the malt trade carried on, not under the Act of Parlia ment , but L a d s erthe orders of time Treasury. The Hon. Member expressing a wish to know what was the c a o m n o c u lt n td t e o d f b) th . e sum offered to the Chancellor of the Ex chequer that morning, upon the offer to fund the Exche quer Bills, as be did not recollect to have heard him men tion it in his speech ? Time CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in an swer to the Hon. Baronet's question with respect to the Life Annuities, begged to state what he thought he had stated, that it was not the intention of the Government to carry the plan of Life Annuities to any great extent, al though he believed, in concurrence with the opinion of the Hon. Baronet, the Member for the Queen's county (Par nell), that it was a very popular mode of investing money, Referring to the Hon. Baronet's objections upon the sub ject of the Sinking Fund, he did not think that its opera tion would be materially affected by any of the present financial arrangements. With respect to the malt duty, he begged the Hon. Baronet to observe that he was aware of the great indisposition on the part of the tvaltsters to carry on their trade in 1826 and 1627; and he had there fore thought it better, in taking his average, to include 1827 with 1828, which two years yielded, wlun taken in this manner, an excess of 700,0001. He was aware, however, that from peculiar circumstances, this sum was very high, and that the average of the preceding years reached only about 600,000/. Although, there-fire, he fairly anticipated an increase, lie had thought it fairer to take it, as the Hon. Baronet would find, at 500,000!., which was the sum set down in the present estimate. Mr. ALEXANDER BARING did not think, in con sidering the Budget, that the House could fairly enter into the discussion of that greater and still more important question to which the document of the Worthy Alderman (Waithman) referred, namely, the cause of that distress and gloom which pervaded all branches of our trades and manufactures. He would just say, with reference to that part of the subject, that the alterations connected with the transition from a state of war to that of peace—the circumstances connected with the change in the currency —the difference in the value of the raw material of our manufactures at the two different periods, cotton being in the time of war one-half dearer, and wool two-thirds ; these things, when fairly considered, might go far to ac count for much of the embarrassment which they nosy ex perienced, although he did not think the question could be fa it ly mixed up with the Budjct. To the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who had laid before the House the finan cial condition,:he was disposed to give every praise. His statement had been clear and satisfactory, when com pared with some of those the House had frequently been compelled to listen to, and which resembled more the effusion, of the l'oet Laureate than the explanat'ons of a Financier. The Right Honourable Gentleman, in that statement, seemed to wish it to be believed that the surplus of the year was upwards of three millions ; Ino he apprehended that the 5 00,000/. for the Dead Weight must be deducted from that sum, and that the available surplus was, therefore, little better than two millions and a half. hie confessed, when he heard the Right Hon. Gentlemen express a disposition to remit taxes, be of his indulging Lis disposition ill favour of the people for he was now and always hail been of opinion, that without an efficient Sinking Food, the country had no chance of relief from th:• difficulties which oppressed it. The Hon. Member for Montrase had oleiereed, that the plying off the F.xchegivir Bills was attended with a loss, for they were esehsegina; a debt which bore an interest ,if 3 per cent. dir a debt which pore en interest of 4 per cent., and at t',i. sues time purchasing this debt at a premium of 70s, per cent. It must be admitted this was true, but at the same time there were circumstances con necte 1 with the large amount of the Unfunded Debt which were well worth consideration. In peace this debt might do no mischief, but if we were to be engaged in a war, the effect of a great Unfunded Debt might prove ruinous to the operations of the Government. Under these cir cumstances, it was highly expedient to reduce the amount of the Unfunded Debt; and although the sum of three millions was small, he thought the effect would be good, and that the pecuniary sacrifice ought net to he considered. Upon the subject of the Unfunded Debt, which consisted of what are called Deficiency Bills of the debt due. to the Bank and of Exchequer Bills, he had a suggestion to make, which he thought deserved attention. By a paper laid on the table it appeared that the sum in the hands of the Accountant-General of the Court of Chancery amounted to nearly 40,000.0001. This money was principally the property of minors and suitors, and was always invested, according to the inva • riable rule of the Court, in the Cons didated Three per Cents., the suitors having no choice of the fund in which their money was to be invested, although he believed sometimes, although rarely, the money had been invested in Exchequer Bills. After the war, and when the Funds were daily advancing, this system gave satisfaction, because those who had money in the Court of Chancery made fortunes by the rise. In the case of the Queensberry pro perty, to take an instance, money invested when the Funds were at 57 and 60, was realised when they were above 90, increasing the capital two-thirds. This told well when the Funds were rising ; hut what would be the consequence or the injustice resulting from a war, which might reduce the property of those who bought at 95 or 96 down to 56 ? . Without talking of the distress it would produce to some, many entitled to residues would get no thing at all, and it was, therefore, very desirable that, they stiould now, in the time of peace, take some steps to put an end to a system of gambling—for gambling it was, as injurious to minors and to fami- Ilea as that carried on in a celebrated house in St. James's-street might be to other persons. Without meaning the slightest imputation upon the profession, he did not think it proper that the large sum to which he had alluded should be under the sole tnansgement of a body of lawyers only. What he proposed, therefore, was this : That Government should take the money belonging to the suitors of the Court of Chancery into its own hands, and give them a sterdy regular 3 per cent. for it. If any great alteration should happen to occur in the value of money, it would then be just that the money should be advanced to 31 or 4 per cent., according to circumstances. There would never be backwardness in that respect; en the contrary, there could he no doubt that there would al ways exist a disposition to allow the suitors too much ra ther than too little. Thus the suitors would have more than the ordinary interest on Exchequer Bills; and he confessed that he could not see any possible harm in taking in this manner the whole of the 40 millions in question ; of course keeping a regular account respecting it with all the various proprietors. The effect of this would lee, to withdraw so much from the unfunded or floating debt.— But, as to sweep all this amount of 40 millions away at once may be attended with sonic inconvenience in the money market, what he proposed was, that all money hereafter coming into the Court of Chancery should be so employed, which, in the course of eight or ten years, would, in all probability, realise the forty millions in question. With respect to any scruples that might arise as to trusting the money of minors and infants to the State, the fact was, that it was so trusted according to the pre sent practice. And if, which God forbid, any thing should occur to place the debt in a hazardous situation, it would be much better that this property should lie in the distinct shape which he recommended than in its present condition. At present there was also a fund to a large and unknown amount in the hands of the Court of Chan cery, unclaimed by any one. Whatever suing of that na ture ought, unquestionably, in his opinion, to be in the hands of the responsible Government. It was impossible but that, under the present system, abuses must exist.— Of one, for instance, he had been apprised by a friend of his, a banker. The Court of Chancery received the money of the suitors in various forms. If in Exchequer Bilis, the Court, instead of keeping the money in that state, received the amount of the gills and bought Stock with it. By that means they sacrificed '7os. per cent. of the suitors' money; and, in the case which his friend had mentioned to him, the loss exceeded four hundred pounds. He apo logised to the Committee for having detained them so long ; but he had thought it his duty to describe this plan, which, if the Finance Committee had been revived, he should have submitted to the consideration of that Com mittee; and he recommended the Hon. Gentleman oppo site to institute an inquiry into the benefits which might be derived from its adoption. Mr. MABERLY had never, until that evening, heard a Chancellor of the Exchequer describe the supposed ba lance of the Sinking Fund in its proper colours. That which was, in fact, fictitious, had, in all former eases, been boldly pronounced real. With respect to his Hon. Friend's (the Member for Callington) eulogy on the Sink ing Fund, he (Mr. Maherly) admitted that the principle of Mr. Pitt's Sinking Fund was excellent; for, on that principle, the annuities were annuities terminable ; but afterwards Government laid hold of them, and converted them into annuities interminable. In the way in which the Sinking Fund had been actually managed, it had been proved by accounts for which he had formerly moved, and which were on the table of the House, that a loss to the country of no less than 27 millions had arisen from the various operations of buying and selling. Anson other causes of this loss, great sums had been sacrificed by the redemptions having been made in the Three per Cents. instead of in the Three and a Half. Indeed, the manner in which Government usually made their money contracts was injudicious. The system was bad. There ought to be more of competition. As an instance of the vice of the present system, it was only necessary to advert to the operation of this morning, when Government wanting a subscription of only three millions of Exchequer Bills, above eighteen millions were offered ; thus showing that the terms were disadvantageous to the public. There was another point on which he wished to say a few words. For whatever might happen to the country, or for what ever might require an extensive reduction of taxation, Government were now solely answerable. The late Mr. Canning thought it expedient that a Committee should be appointed to investigate the finances of the country. In that opinion he (Mr., Maberly) understood at the time that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite concurred. The Committee had, however, no sooner finished one year's labour (the benefit of which had been rendered apparent that night in the clear and honest statement which for the first time had been made in that House by a Chancellor of the Exchequer), than its existence was terminated. That Committee had pronounced the Sink ing Fund in its present state a fallacy; and now, as if by magic, the whole House saw that it was a fallacy. Yet, for how many years had he and same of his friends in vain endeavoured to impress the House with that fact ! The Committee of Finance had declared, and declared with the greatest truth, that there could be no sinking fund except thesurplus of the public income over the pub lic expenditure. That was one great advantage which the country had derived from the appointment of the Finance Committee. If it had been revived many other advantages would have been derived from it. It would have examined into the manner of keeping the public accounts. It would have suggested alterations in the Ex chequer. It would have recommended specific diminu tions of the burden of taxation. It would have pared down all the estimates of the public service. The Go vernment, however, had determined that the Committee should no longer exist. The Government had declared th it they would do what the Committee would otherwise have done. If they really did so, they would de serve well of their country ; but he confessed that he was rather sceptical on that point. He understood the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exche quer to state, that there was a surplus of above three mil lions applicable as a Sinking Fund to the reduction of the debt. He (Mr. Maberly) had no objection to the opera tion of a Sinking Fund —except as it was abused—and as it sametimes induced Ministers to abstain from reducing the Estimates, and to maintain them at what was properly the War Establishment. If, in 1517, a searching inquiry had been made into our financial condition and resources, he had no doubt that we might have reduced our taxation three millions a year more than we had done. But we had not adhered even to the recommendation of the Fi nance Committee of that period. By gross mismanage ment we had increased our debt, and had imposed on the country a long-continued and unnecessary taxation. It ass evident that we could not go on as we were now going on ; but that we must greatly reduce . beth our taxation a nd our establishments. He could •point out two or three establishments, the consolidation of which Would be at• teoded with great saving. lie allowed that there was ;rest difficulty attendant on the task of retrenchment; ntir! advantage could be accomplished. It was on that account that he c onsidered the act of throwing the Finance Com mittee ovet hoard more injurious than any measure Govern ment could have adopted. Mr. SUGDEN, adverting to the plan recommended hy the Hon. Member for Car ington, expressed his hope the day would never arrive when Government would fee! itself at libel.; yto make use of the money belonging to time suitors in the Court of Chancery, for the chimerical purpose of clearing off the unfunded debt. If he under. stood the argument of the Hon. Member for Callington, it divided itself into two points : first, as to the expedi ency of investing the meney of the suitors of the Court of Chancery in the Three per Cents. ; and secondly, as to the propriety of allowing Government to apply that money to the reduction of the Floating Debt. With regard to the first point, he believed the Hon. Gent. was mistaken in supposing that the funding of the money of the suitors in the Court of Chancery was confined to the Three per Cent. Consols ; it was as frequently invested in the Reduced Three per Cents. When the Court of Chancery first began to receive the money of all persons comingi pt.) the Court, and more especially the money of minors and others who were unable to protect themselves, the propriety was evident of selecting some fund for the investing of that money, not a fund which was not invariable, for that could not be expect ed, but which, bearing the smallest interest, and therefore yielding the smallest immediate profit, was most likely to increase the capital ultimately. The reason why the Court of Chancery did not invest the motley of the suitors in any other stock then the Three per Cents. was, that all other stock were liable to be reduced. The other funds were a redeemable debt. For instance, the Five per Cents. had been reduced. What a great inconvenience would that have been to suitors had their money been invested in that stock !•- For in that case the Court of Chancery must either have taken upon itself the acceptance of the terms offered, or it must have allowed the money of the suitors to remain unappropriated. Besides, were the money of the suitors invested in a stock bearing a large interest, the tenant for life would have a greater advantage than be longed to him, to the injury of his successors. The Court of Chancery was considered as the parent of those whose property was placed under its protection ; and he would ask where was the father of a family who would think of investing all the property of his children in Exchequer Bills instead of in the Three per Cents. ? It should also be considered tint the great proportion of the property brought to the Court of Chancery was brought thither be ' cause it was expected that it would remain there a long time. Ought it to be invested in any but the safest se curity ? Exchequer Bills were convertible. They might be stolen ; they might be burnt. Where was the man who, being in pos,ession of forty millions of money would dream of investing it in Exchequer Bills? Would the Court of Chancery be justified in snaking any experiments with the money entrusted to them ? Would it he justified in speculating in the Funds with money which did riot belong to it? To invest the money of the suitors in the Three per Cents. was to invest it in a stock which was more likely to rise than to fall. The Hon. Member bad deprecated trusting lawyers in the manage ment of the fund in question. He (Mr. Sugden) wou:d not only not trust lawyers—he would not trust any one. He could assure the Hon. Gent. that no lawyer, as an in dividual, had the slightest controul over the money of the suitors in the Court of Chancery. He was in the habit of being in that Court as frequently as any body, and he knew of the fond in question only by reputation; having no more controul over it than the Hon. Member for Callington had. The Hon. Member had said, " Don't trust lawyers." Without meaning any incivility, be (Mr. S.) might fairly say, "Don't trust merchants;" for it was not impossible that on the pat t of the commercial interest there might be a dis position to get rid of the incumbrance of the Unfunded Debt at the expence of the unfortunate suitors in the Court of Chancery. Another evil that would attend the Hon. Mem ber's plan was the impracticability of paying the parties in the Court from time to time ; weekly, daily, hourly, as the Court might direct. He had been taken by surprise on this subject, and had therefore not advanced all that might be said upon it. At the same time, although he might not have spoken wisely, he would say that he had spoken sin cerely. As to the large sums in the hands of the Court not claimed, or likely to be claimed, be agreed with the Hon. Member for Callington, that it might fairly he dis posed of in the manner the Hon. Gentleman had described, with a guaranty for its return, in the event of an owner appearing. But to the other part of the Hon. Gentleman's proposition he would never consent, and he hoped Parlia ment would never listen to it for a moment.—(Hear.) Mr. BARING rose to explain, but he spoke in so low a tone that he was quite inaudible in the gallery. Mr. ATTWOOD—The Worthy Alderman who spoke in a previous part of the debate has I think, done great service by his example of endeavouring to explain the papers ou the table, and make us understand the condition of the country. There is no species of document, I will undertake to say, which can be referred to on which to found a special conclusion which is the foundation of more erroneous conclusions—as, for example, the tables of the consumption of the country, of our exports, of the amount of tonnage of our shipping, &c.—or which is more to be suspected of giving rise to fallacious in ferences, unless these documents are explained by some one who is intimately acquainted with the branch of trade that is to lie elucidated—(Hear, hear.)—The Chancellor of the Exchequer says there has been a great increase in our exports since 1826, on which he founds his proof of our prosperity, in the same spirit as the Hon. Member for Liverpool referred the other evening to the increased amount of our imports as a proof of the flourishing state of our trade. In 1826, the tables show that the official value of the exports was 40 millians, and in 1829 they are fifty-two millions ; and if this test of the increased prosperity and tranquillity of the country be allowed, then is the country more prosperous and tran quil now than in 1824 .? The conclusion is absurd ; and either the table is fallacious, or there is a fallacy in the conclusion deduced from it. The question of silk presents the same appearance, and a conclusion has been drawn limn the tables very satisfactory to the Government. It is stated that there has been a great increase of the raw material, therefore the tra:le must he prosperous —an opinion which is delivered in front of that distress we are implored to remove. We have frequently arguments of this nature brought before the House; and nothing is mere common than for any gentleman to state the amount of our tonnage as a triumphant argument to prove the commercial pros perity of the country, at the very time that the ship-owners are complaining that they are completely ruined. I ask how this takes place, and I shall endeavour to explain it by referring to one branch of trade with which several in dividuals in the House are connected : I mean the iron trade. I say, in time hearing of many Members who can correct me, that the state of that trade never was more ruinous to those engaged in it than it now is. The capital embarked in it never was less profitably employed, wages never were lower; it is the same in every branch of the trade; and if this condition should not be improved, and time trade sustained itself for five years, there will net then be a single bar of iron made in the country. At t his very time, however, there is an extraordinary quan tity of iron made and making ; and if the list of exports be examined, the extraordinary exportation of iron will he held to be a proof of the evident prosperity of the trade. The fact is, that the trade is in a ruinous state; the low prices induce the manufacturers to exert themselves El eon tend against ruin—they have increased their labour, erni have increased the amount of iron sent into market. But how are they doing this ? The ore is raised without driv ing those levels by which they may hereafter obtain an ' indiscriminate supply ; the stock of metal on hand is worked up in every branch of the manufacture, and car ried to market, while the stock is not replenished, and threatens at no distant day to put a complete stop to the trade. Every Gentleman must remember a similar state of things in agriculture during the season of distress which at length ended in the ruin of agriculture. There was a great comparative over production—the produce fell in price. More land was cultivated—or to use the expres sions of the Member for Bridgenorth, who has a peculiar theory on this subject—it was more extravagantly culti vated, and a great additional supply was olrarned. But how wag it obtained? Why the farmers emptied their stack-yards, and sent every thing they could to market, to enable them to pay the dentruels on them. If at that time the exports had been examined, what would have s b i e d e e n rat f ) o le und qu ? ant lN it ' i l: s y, nd.eurreingsentt;he period grain was ex ported from E ng l an d to F rance —oats in consid er . and had examined th e ta bl es would ha any person have draw : t o h z who time ex traordinary conclusion, that our agriculture never was more flourishing, nor our farmers more prosperous, for they were not only able to supply our own mar ket, but to send corn to France. In the same way our ship-owners were (hiving the Russian and Prussian ships away from our ports, notwithstanding the greater prices they paid, by their excessive poverty obliging them to con sent to be employed on any terms. I will refer back to still more painful realities, to he found in the state of Ire land. If thieve was one year in which Ireland was not in a state of prosperity, it was in 1822. In that year not less a sum than 000,000/. was collected from the charity of England—she herself being distressed—to relieve the still greater distress of Ireland. But if we look to the exports of Ireland for that year, we shall find a proof of ;ts being ' more prosperous than usual in the increased account of its exports. It was a more extraordinary and a more brilliant it ; and 1822 exceeded both 1523 and 1824, as is proved by the returns laid on the table of the House, in the amount of its exports. The exports of that year exceeded whatever occurred before or since in the whole history of I med. 'I he returns of experts fro n Ireland testified, ac mmormlieg to official language, the extreme prosperity of the cimuntry at time very moment that its immhabitants were perishing. It is evident from the state of things in this country, that such is our present cond lion. We are making large exports at the time that our people arc asking for the necessaries of life. We are supplying other countries—our merchants arc seeking a market all over the world, because they are poor and distressed. A Government guided by cor rect principles, would inquire into the cause of such a state of timings, existing in the nation over which it presides. But our Government inquired not—it was involved in apathy, and took no more account of our present circumstances than it formerly sent vessels to Ireland, by not one of which was that country visited, except to bear away its pro duce. The state of things in that country is most unna tural and extraordinary ; and it would become the Mem bers connected with Ireland to investigate into the cause, and not to be content till they had found out the cause and redressed the injustice. They would do more good by in vestigating the cause than had been conferred on the coun try by the measure of Catholic emancipation, which threa tened our tranquillity by alarming the fears of the inha bitants of this part of the Empire, while it had only con ferred a double boon on the Catholics. It is now disco vered that we have capital which cannot be profitably em ployed, though it is capital which sets labourers in motion and gives a spur to industry ; and at the same time we have a superabundance of population which that capital cannot employ. This is an extraordinary state of things which requires investigation, and this alone makes it suf ficient to cast a cloud over that prosperity which the Chancellor of the Exchequer thinks is only temporary, and which he has described on passing over as a subject to be slightly alluded to, hut only to be looked at as a matter of curiosity, and watched as it flies away. But when all the elements of national prosperity are out of order—when industry obtains no wages, and capital no profit, it is time I think that the attention of the House should be directed to the subject. That is the question which the House ought to consider. It ought to institute an inquiry into the state of the country, and to institute it with earnest energy.—(Hear.) Mr. HUSKISSON bad been unfortunately absent in the early part of the debate, and did not intend to take any part in it if he had not been alluded to by the Hon. Member for Callington ; and he must express his surprise that that Hon. Member, who had begun his speech by re ferring to the digression of the Worthy Alderman, had him 'elf digressed from the subject before the Committee in such a manner as hardly to have alluded to it. I appeal to the Committee if almost every part of the Hon. Member's speech might not hare been delivered on any other occasion, and if a large portion of it might not have been appropriately spoken in the debate last night on the subject of Ireland. The lion. Member says, that in 1822 there was great distress in Ireland, and that during the same year there was a great exportation of corn and cattle. This was possibly the case; and what was the cause? Why in Ireland in that year the food, the potatoe crop— on which the great bulk of the peasantry subsist—totally failed, and they did then as they must do under similar circumstances, sold whatever else they bad to pay the dues of the landlord—sold that other produce which in ge • neral they are not in the habit of consuming. The Honourable Member could surely drew in this nothing extraordinary; it was one of the unfortunate results of that state of society which will occasionally arise when there is a redundant population, and little o r no capital to set them to work, and particularly when that population are already reduced to subisst on the cheapest and lowest priced of all species of food. The distress was caused by the failure of the potatoe crop. This ought to make the House take into its consideration the state of pauperism in Ireland, for if something were not done, England would speedily he reduced to the same state ; and when it was so reduced, property would be ex posed here to time same danger, and time public tranquillity to the same uncertainty as in Ireland. The :Hon. Mem ber had also referred to what I stated on a former evening from the exports, and in repeating that statement he would challenge the Hon. Member to tell him what other documents he could refer to, to ascertain the cendition of the country, but those which were published by the au thority of Parliament to show the state of the commerce of the country. In the finance returns, the account of the exports for the year 1827 was stated :at forty millions, and the last year at fiftyetwo millions ; and he had stated the last as a proof that the foreign demand had not de creased, and that that could not be the reason for the want of employment for capital and labour. Ile had taken the official value, because that was estimated by rates settled, not, as the Worthy Alderman seemed to suppose, in 1814, but during time reign of King William ; and because, there fore, it signified quantities, not value, and showed that the quantities exported in 1828 were greater, by the proportion of 32 to 40, than in 1827. He had argued from that fact, and that argument had not been met, that the want of employment did not arise from auy decrease in our foreign demand. He had also stated what he trusted could not be denied, and he had proved the fact by the Excise returns, that a greater demand and consumption of various articles existed in 1828 than in 1827. He had also inferred from this, that it could not be want of employ ment which had occasioned that pressure which was generally felt. There was no better criterion of the im proved condition and comfort of a people, than that the community increased its consumption of the necessaries, the enjoyments, .and the luxuries of life ; and if he found the quantity consumed of beer, cloth, spirits, malt, and silk gradually increased, he was entitled to infer that the community was thriving, and he had referred to these documents to justify the policy adopted by the Govern ment of this country with regard to its commerce and industry. The Hon. Gentleman speaks of the decay of the silk trade ; but there are contingencies which will come, and cannot be avoided in any manufactures which are sulmjeat to the influence and fluctuations of fashion. If Members referred to The Annual Register, they would find that distress was not unusual in Spitalfields, and that more riots bad been known there than in any other part of the metropolis. The Hon. Member and others compared the present state of trade with the exorbitant profits obtained during the war, and by that comparison with the depression which now exists, he drew his conclusions that trade was ruinel It has always been found that there were periods when production surpassed consumption, and which were followed by periods of stagnation. As long as prices were falling, persons looked for a still further fall ; and they would undertake nothing which they could avoid, and would buy as little as possible ; but directly prices began to rise, then all the speculators rushed into the market. He would not say that we were yet at an end of the first period ; bet whenever prices began to rise, trade would recover. He could not indulge in those gloomy anticipa tions, founded on false assumptions, in which the Hon. Member for Callington indulged, and which did not ap pear to have been very well calculated to alleviate the pressure on the labour and industry of the country.-- (Ilear, hear. )—Having done with this digression, he would While he was on his legs, refer to what had fallen from the lion. Member for Callington. He agreed entirely with time latter obs , ,wvation of the Honourable and Learned Member t - or 'Weymouth on this subject. If there were in the Court of Chancery any fund similar to the unclaimed di vidends, not likely to be called for, or called for at a spe cific time, Parliament might deal with that fund, giving a guarantee to the Court, as it gave to the Bank, to pay it when called on. Parliament could not recognise a higher protecting authority than that it owed to its own creditors. In fact no higher protection for any property could be given. It did not appear to him that the Honourable Member for Callington meant or in tended by his proposal any sacrifice of property. Nothing was further, he was sure, from the thoughts of that Hon. Member, who only banked at it as every man of common sense would look at it. If Parliament dealt with that pro perty, it ought to deal with it on the principle of a guar dian, who makes time most he can, preserving it from den ger, as the property of his ward. In many cases it must be improper to vest much of the money in the hands of the Court of Chancery in such a fluctuating Stock as the Three per Cents. ; and it would be better to vest it in that more steady account of Exchequer Bills. The Hon. Mem ber asked could the House convert all the property vested in the hands of the Accountant-General into a book debt? Why the whole national debt was nothing but a book debt, and it was as sacred as any debt in the kingdom. There was no authority for it, but that it was inscribed in the books of time Bank of England. Exchequer Bills had, at least, a tangible existence; and hearing a reoeipt from time Exchequer had at least as valued an existence as the debt inscribed in time books of the Bank. The Hon. and Learned Member said Exchequer Bills might be stolen ; but the Bank of England will at any time take charge of the Exchequer Bills of individuals, and of course they will he more reedy to do this for a public company. The Bank of England would take charge of Exchequer Bills for any 'Oman. From the nature of the case, upon due considera tion, any man acting as a guardian would vest his money in Exchequer Bills, in preference to vesting it in the Three per Cents. Let pulmlic trustees not be placed under the necessity of vesting their money in the Three per Cents., or in Ex chequer Bills ; but let there be some officer, who in each Chancery, intentiono l l l i n ol o ßo f t i i n w te u ra nf t u s n a d r e e d t d o e b n e , g b u u a t rd th ed ;,; considerablell ie rest the %pro° portion n be o , f nutta that debthe sacrifice l o w f ( t .h h o e sen parties fo in vestmentsa in preference co the Three per Cents. Being so vested, it would not expose the State to those hazards and difficulties and fluctuations to which a country is expos d that has a public debt. He had heard with great satis fictien the statement of the Right Hon. Gent., that, amidst all the pressure upon the country, and making every allowance for that pressure, as affecting the public income and diminishing the resources of the country, he was offering to the Hoes , the satisfactory statement that there was a surplus of revenue equal to what the Com mittee of last year had declared ought to be the minimum of balance of receipt over expenditure. His Bight Hon. Friend had shown that that surplus would be realised in the present year. He (Mr. H.) would not enter into any discussion of the terms of the three millions, but he was rather inclined to agree with the Honourable Mem ber for Abingdon that the Chancellor of the Exche quer ought not to have mentioned the terms ; and if, as he says, offers had been made to the extent of eighteen millions, it certainly afforded a presumption that better terms might have been obtained.—(Hear, bear.)—But there was a reduction of the amount of the Unfunded Debt to the extent of three millions ; and he was rejoiced that the speech of his Right Hon. Friend warranted a belief that, at a future period, be meant to extend the reduction of the Unfunded Debt still further. The Unfunded Debt was one of the dangers of the country,—it was a source of weakness, danger, and embarrassment. He could wish that, as his Right Hon. Friend had ascertained that there were three millions of surplus, he had withdrawn from the market a greater amount of Unfunded Debt; and he would once more repeat, that he looked at the state of the Unfunded Debt, which was held by the Bank of England, with concern. He most seriously wished that that por tion of the Unfunded Debt should undergo a diminution. It was that portion of the Unfunded Debt that had been the fruitful source of such difficulties and sufferings to the country, of which it was now bearing the la mentable consequences. In 1797 objections were made to the nmount of the engagement which the Bank wtsa under to the Government, under the shape of advances OD the unfunded debt. He could not forget that in 1819 the Bank of England toll the Government that they required a repayment of ten millions. After receiving this, they advanced to Government thirteen millions upon securities much less available than Exchequer Bills, besides two mil lions upon mortgage. He had not lost sight of the panic of 1825, and he did implore the Right Hon. Gentleman not to leave the amount of the unfunded debt as it was, it 5 the hands of the Bank. He should consider well how small a portion of the funds of that company was available in time of distress. With the exception of their treasury and deposits, scarcely any securities they held, in the event of panic, or of a great change in the affairs of the world, could be made available. Of all the clangers and evils that could affect this country, the greatest would be that of the Bank of England coming to Parliament and saying, give us a restriction for the public interests and for public pur poses. He hoped never to see such an exigency: and if he did, were he to live to a much greater extent than the ordinary duration of life, of this be was convinced that he should not live to see that exigency removed. Mr. ATTWOOD explained, complaining that the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had misrepre sented some of his statements. Mr. D. W. HARVEY rose amidst sonic impatience.. The country had been led to expect that it was the serious intention of Government to investigate the financial ren dition of the country, with a view to a substantial redoc tion of expenditure. The public feeling had been com posed under the expectation that a Finance Committee, consisting of all parties, should be established for the pur pose of probing into the expences of the country. Such a Committee was established ; but just as they had entered upon the threshold of their practical utility, the country received from Government a notice of its dissolution. Anil now the Chancellor of the Exchequer came down to the House, proposing to do something in connexion witir the Court of Chancery. As to any reduction of taxation, or a mutation of its character, not one word was uttered.— (Hear.) —The House had been led to expect, by the advn eates of Catholic Emancipation, that no sooner should that great measure be carried, than the military in Ireland should be reduced, and millions saved. As far as he could learn as yet, they not disbanded even a Corporal's Guard. Easy as it was to reduce the expenditure from three to five millions, still greater relief might arise frcni an altera tion of the taxes. It was to a reduction and alteration of taxes that the attention of the country was directed, and he did not believe that there were 650 persons in all England that did not believe that the only way of reliev ing the country was to take from the shoulders of the poor the chief part of their burthens, and to alter the na ture of what was left them to bear. He would repeat, that about ten millions of taxes which oppressed the labouring classes might be removed, and others substituted. He would recommend the substitution of a well-regulated and equitable graduated Property Tax, commencing at one, and rising to forty per cent.—(Laughter.)—People did expect that the state of the country would receive a deep investigation. Nothing was so barbarously unjust as to institute free trade on one side, and the Corn taws on the other. He had thrown out something difficult of diges tion ; but a few sound, strong, and sober remarks might be made in a few minutes, when those who wished to cloud the public eye entered into two or three hours' ora tion, till they perplexed, all who beard them. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN explained. The question was then put and carried, that the sum of 506,212/. 2s. Bd., the surplus of the Ways and Means of the years 1823, 1824, 1825, 1826, 1827, and 1828, be granted for the service of the present year—that towards . making good the supply of the present year, the sum of 14,700,0001. be granted out of the Consolidated Fund.— Put and carried. Upon putting the question, that towards raising the Supply, 13,438,802/. be raised for the service of the pre sent year, Mr. HUME wished to know whether these Bills we!e meant solely to replace those now in circulation. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that they were intended solely to replace Bills at present out.— Government had no power to issue new Bills. The mo tion was then carried. Upon the question that the several persons who had en gaged to subscribe towards funding two millions of Exche quer Bills, and have made deposits at the Bark of Eng land, should be entitled, at the completion of the sub scription of each 100/. to 101/. 10s., in capital stock of 4 per cent., Mr. HUME moved to report progress, and ask leave to sit again till the Chancellor of the Exchequer should show that he could not withdraw the Bills from market on bet ter terms ttian he had done. _ _ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if the Howie was not to proceed till he had satisfied the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, there would be an intermin able postponement of the question.—(Laughter.)—The Committee could only judge of the present terms by what had been done under similar circumstances.—(Cries of " No, no, no.")—lt would not be difficult to satisfy the House that the mode of reducing Exchequer Bills, by a gradual application of the Sinking Fund to daily purchases in the market, would not he economical to Government. It would raise the premium till the Government would find a greater loss than by the present measure. BY the present transaction the difference of interest was one and a fraction per cent., and the 96,0001. received for the sale of these Biils would go in part reduction. Mr. MABERLY was no advocate for withdrawing Ex c!,equer Bills, except as they could be paid off at par. Mr. HERIIIES felt convinced that, under all the cir cumstaneee, his Right lion. Friend was pursuing the most proper course.—(Cries of " Question, question !") Mr. MABERLY rose amidst repeated cries of " Question !" The Hon. Member observed, that the ar guments of the Right lion. the Master of the Mint would be perfectly good, if they referred only to the three mil lions ; but it so happened that he referred to the whole amount of Exchequer Bills afloat in the market. Ile thought all the Chancellor of the Exchequer had a right to do was to give the usual notice that he meant to pay off 3,000.000/. of Exchequer Bills at par.—(" Question ! Question !") Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY asked a question, which the noise below the Bar rendered inaudible in the gallery. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose for the purpose of answering the Hon. Baronet.—(Question, question !)--He agreed with the Hon. Baronet in think ing that so far as regarded the Bills which the Bank re ceived from Government, they had a right to take them back on the stipulated terms, but it wrs different with re spect to the Exchequer Bills, which had got into their possession by other means. Mr. HUME rose amidst loud cries of " Question !" He was willing to wait with patience, as it was as yet early (it was one o'clock) ; but be was determined to he hear.i. lie had year after year en leavoured to impress upon Ministers the propriety of altering the course which they were now pursuing. —(Question, question.)—lf this interruption is continued, I shall certainly persevere in my motion for an adjournment of the debate. If there be Hon. Members below the Bar (as I see there are) who bit there without a wish to take a part in the business before