The Sun. — London, England, 1829-03-19 00:00:00

feringe were caused by the absence of their friends, and that the desperate calamity was engendered—not by the plague—but by the distance and the absence of the rela tions of those who were perishing.—(Cheers.)—lt might be very well for the poor sufferers that their friends were there and about them in this disastrous extremity—arid laws to prevent absenteeism, and to introduce poor laws into Ireland, might do very well in their way ; but first, I say, cure the plague which the penal laws have engendered and spread throughout the whole of society there.—(Loud cheers.) To do any thing before this shall be accom plished, is only to tamper with disease—to insult the sufferers, without affording a relief for the affliction under which they suffer.—(Hear, hear.)—The Hon. Member (Mr. Sadler) next referred to a passage in a speech of a Right Honourable Relative of mine (Mr. C. Grant), and endeavoured to draw from his speech that it was the opinion of my Right Honourable Re lative that the evils of society in Ireland proceeded from local oppression. But this sentiment of my Right Honourable Relation, as to the evils of local oppres sion, did not preclude the consideration of the great and powerful operation of the penal laws in Ireland in creat ing and aggravating the evils to that country. On the contrary, the whole argument of his speech went to show that these laws contributed to perpetuate and make worse the state of local oppression, and to prove that the remedy for all those evils was not local but general, and that that general remedy consisted in the measure of relief now brought forward by his Majesty's Government. The Hon. Member proceeded to contend that the evils of Ire land had long existed, and seemed to infer from their long continuance that they should be perpetuated. It would seem from the speech of the Hon. Member that there was something in the destiny of Ireland—some fatality im pending over it, that it should be consigned to perpetual misery, and that as soon as one form of suffiring had ex pired, its spirit should be transmigrates] into some new form or body of affliction.—(Hear, hear.)—ln pursuing this argument the Hon. Member contended that the evils of Ireland did not emanate from the penal laws, for they existed antecedent to - the Reformation. I would refer the Hon. Member to a high authority—that of Sir John Da vies—who tells you that the causes of the evils that existed in former times arose from the refugel to give to the Irish an equality of laws with the English ; and as the English could not eradicate them from the country, this reluctance to communicate equality of laws perpetuated the discontent and misery of the nation. The words of Sir John Davies were—" Whereby it is manifest that such as had the Government of Ireland under the Crown of England did intend to make a perpetual separa tion and enmity between the English and the Irish, pre tending (no doubt) that the English should in the end root out the Irish ; which the English not being able to do, did cause a perpetuall warre betweene the nations; which continued foure hundered and odde years."—(Loud cries of hear, hear.)—The evils and discontents which had been created by the refusal of the English to giant equal laws to the Irish in former times have been continued in more modern times by the refusal of the Protestants to concede equal laws to ti e Catholics; and so the Hon. Member might perceive that a system of exclusion and injustice since the Reformation, as well as antecedent to it, had been alike productive of evil consequences to Ireland and to the general interests of the empire.—( Hear, hear.)—Of the objections which have been taken to this measure, the most prominent appear to be the dangers to he apprehended from the passing of this measure to the Protestant establish ments—the absence of a necessity for passing, and a feel ing of national pride in not admitting the Catholics to an equality with ourselves. The two first of these subjects have been already so fully answered, and the topics are al ready so exhausted that I shall address very little to the House upon them. From the tone of the petitions, it is minifest that a very general objection lies to what in these petitions is called the granting of political power to the Catholics. But this measure does not confer poli tical power ; the Roman Catholics have it; it only re strains its exercise, and prevents its existence in a way that threatens the safety of our establishments. It is far better to transfer the power of the Catholic Association to this • House, than that it should exist as a separate body—levy ing taxes, ordaining decrees; and that the Government should sometimes be indebted to it for the ignominious safety of preserving the peace which the laws and autho rity of Parliament alone should enforce. Can Hon. Gen tlemen be blind to the true alarm which is to be found in the necessity that has existed of having five-sixtlis of the army in a time of peace—if such a state of things can be called a time of peace established in Ireland ? If the Catholic Association has aggravated the condition of society which had made the presence of such a f, rce necessary, the best way to controul and regulate its power is to transfer it to this House; and I am convinced that the practical effent of the meesure will be to diminish, and not to in crease, ;hat political power, or, in other words, the danger arising from that political power, of which so much serious apprehension is expressed in these petitions. In short, that this course will be the safest for all our establish ments, common sense unites with reason, policy, and ex peeieeee in rreonsmencling.—(Hear.)—At all events there is no caropaeizen between the security which the measure will give to our establishmeqte, and the miserable state of their present precarious existence to which they will he re duced unless the proposed measure is adopted.—(Load cfes ef 'dear, hear.)—lf this measure he successful, and if our reasomehle expectations be satisfied in the proTerous results which will attend it ? then the problem of our difficulties and our dangers is solved ; beat if it should be otherwise, and if, contrary to our hopes and wieheo, a tunics animus should manifest itself on the part of the Catholics towards our Protestant establishments, then, at least, we shall not be in the same situation is which we are now, and shall be better able and better disposed to encounter it by the con sciousness of having done all in our power to appease and arrest it.—( Hear, hear.)a—The precarious situation, how,. ever, in which we are forbid that we should remain in it. Nothing can be more stupid than the line of demarcation now drawn by our Catholic laws between the Catholic and the Protestant. Of three practicable principles we have adopted none. We might once have stood, we did for a thee stand, on this groned of distinction,—that the Catho lic should have neither religious nderetion, nor civil privi lege, nor religious establishment. net was a deep and dark line of demarcation certainly; but, from its very depth and darkness, it was distinct and well defined.— We quitted that position. What was the next ? We gave the Cetilelke. religious toleration, but denied him civil privilege and religione establishment. That too was a clear and broad principle of diecrintieatiee ; but we quitted it in 1793. Quitting it, ought we not to hate eeee that the only prin ciple that remained was that of giving to the Catholic r4igious toleration and civil privilege, which the spirit of the Coentleution says he ought to have, and denying to him religious eraohlishrnent, which it says lie ought not to receive? No, we die! not do this; we gave him civil privilege, but we gave it only neetielly ; we gave it in the most reiechievous manner; conceding theeleetive franchise, but withholding the right of being elected. Tut is, we gate civil privilege to, the lower members of the Catholic people, but denied it to their gestural leaders. The principle of our Constitution being (es even the Member for Newark admitted last night), that property should tell against num ber, sr had to conferred privileges on the Catholics, that, among them, number must tell against property. The fatal effects of such a system were foretold by bail Flan- kett,—were foretold by Mr. Canning,—and are still mote ,forcibly illustrated by the late Clare Election.--(Hear, lteer.),—What then remains but to adopt now the third peeiteen ? and meanie nature of the measure now pro posed by the wisdom and jeeetice. of Government ?--(Hear.) Things cannot map here; eithee lees should heye been done, or more must be geanted. Nottviihstandieg the declaration of the Hon. Member fn; Newark, I con tend, that granting the Catholics all they have bit ince: . 1O(1 so ane..ieneely, and so unremittingly sought for, and what wen law of P,elinien and Nature entitled them to, is in the spirit offs in feet perfecting—the Constitution.—(dear, hear.)- .T majority of iu ,edherents, will, wider the worst circumetaecee, uphold the Pectastant established Church of the country. Seppeeieig that the measure before the House should have an egeet eentrary to whatitssuppore ers confidently predicted, let the House -to the different eanetion in which the Catholics would stand in reiatino to e Peotestants if they were admitted to the benefits of tits CoustitUtion, aasd if they were pertnanently excluded. In the latter .cteee e ae,.they now stood they presented no tan gible point for the Legieletu,ee to ley hold by ; in the for mer, they would be a distinct .h . Ctiaa By exclusion, the Protestants are rendered a divided liodye ageinst a united body of Roman Catholics; they will be a compact body against a divided body of .tbe lettene—(hear, hear)—and no one sect or other. Besides, the F44Guliernsvnisit4l be oppose{ L L egi:l h e e .ture. eell.l not be liable to the impittat pf having .broken pro mises in the case of the Coin;;. of It'ela; l 4- rneY will n 9 loneer have the perfidy of that meaaere evhiepe ! - ed In their .ear b (hear, bear)—that the .gcod faith of Blimeters -hes . 'been piedeed only to be violated.—( Hear, hear.) Bat .need not argee further on the no danger of further of further polatical power to : the Catholics, for the settee com mon interest alone eaettatee the present measure of concession. The next point dwelt upon by some Honourable Members, and urged s.ine of the anti-Catholic petitions that have been presented deireseene Session. The point is, that as the Members of flue House have taken an oath, or made a declaration, that the Roman Catholic religion was 6 1 ,.elat_rous, they will be guilty of a fers present securities to prospective dangers.—(Cheers.)—a The lion. Member for Lyme-Regis, who addressed the House last night, made a speech which seemed to support our views, but which was really decidedly in favour of his Majesty's Government ; and so perhaps we shall hear many other speeches equally difficult to comprehend. But I return to the Right Hon Gentleman, who told us to judge what were his opinions by the course he had pur sued. In 1825 he offered to resign, because there was a Bill passing through this House for the relief of the Ca tholics ; but finding that his resignation would have dis solved the Administration, to which he was reluctant, he agreed, on the solicitation of Lord Liverpool, to remain in office. In 1627 there was a majority of four in this House against the Catholic Claims, and the Right Hon. Gentleman thought himself justified by that majority in remaining still longer, though I believe he will find that many Ministers have gone out of office wide a much larger majority to support them. Why then does he bring fiir ward these measures now? What is the change in the state of Ireland which has converted the Right Hon. Gentle man ? From about the first time to which I new refer, it became apparent thst the state of the elective franchise in Ireland was such as must overbalance and render fruitless all attempts to settle that country ; and the House may see by a violent speech lately made by the leader of the Catholic Association, and by the equally violent articles published by the Catholic press of Ireland on thi s sub j ect, that unless the Bill before us be deprived of this accompaniment, the Catholics will not be satisfied. Mr. O'Connell expressly says—" I shall consider the measure of Catholic Emanci pation incomplete until that Bill is repealed."—(Cheers.)— shall take leave, with reference to this very injurious me.a.oire, to refer to a letter from the Bishop of Meath to the great O'Connell of that day, dated the 4th of the Kalends of Slay, 1538. The Noble Lord then read the letter, which spoke warmly in prai.e of the zeal and ortho doxy of Ireland. Where in Ireland, asked the letter, has the Catholic faith been overturned? The Bishop called out loudly for the suppression of heresy, because, when the faith of Ireland perished, the See of Rome itself would perish. But Ireland was a sacred island, and was certified by Mother Church as one that would never desert her. The Noble Lord, in conclusion, repeated that he was convinced this Bill would have a most injurious tendency, and he could not better express himself than in the words of Lord Burleigh—that England could only be destroyed by her own Parliament. Mr. ROBERT GRANT—I confess I feel somewhat reluctant in taking part in this debate, not because I am averse to state my opinions, nor because I at all undervalue the importance of the question nor further, though I think the production of such documents as the Noble Lord has read in the course of his speech, without giving any opinion on their merits, was not qn:te consistent with his profession to conduct the discussion in that spirit of moderation and temperance which was recommended in his Majesty's speech. I do regret that many things have been slid with some degree of harshness in the course of this debate. 1 allude to the sort of assumption of supe rior purity made by Hon. Gentlemen who pride them selves on being good Anti-Catholics. is impossible to open one's lips against them, without subjecting one's self to their accusations...(Cheers.)-1 beg to assure the House, that nay whole feelings as to this question are go verned by the most profound sense of the magnitude of the interests involved in it, With regard to the speech of the lion. Member for Newark, I must say that I listened to it with great attention, and I thought it one of distin guished ability, In one point of it I entirely agree, namely that there is a strong feeling among a considerable portion C{ the population against the proposed change, and that that strong feeling is chietly sotertained by those who are the most attached to the religion mid the religious esta blishment of the country. In fairness, however, while I feel bound to make that admission, I must also concur with those who have maintained that in fact the religion and the religious establishments of the country are entirely un botched by the Bill. But I do protest against many of the conclusions drawn ist the course of those speeches ; a-nd I do hope the House wilt forgive me, if I even advance to titd verge of topics which properly ehould base been wholly extruded from dot discussion. If I sv,ese to judge of the sense of the - 00 °Pie by the numbers who have come to the House with p e titions in this case, because they feel greatly averse to it; but there are greater numbers yet behind, who have not asked to be heard : if there be a vast number of petitions against the Catholic Claims, can there be a doubt that if it were deemed advisable, the whole adult population of Ireland would, after knowing what measures are intended for their relief, rush forward with one voice, and ask us to pass this ?—(Cheers.) So tar as numbers are concerned, I feel myself nimble to judge ; and I have therefore taken the laborious course of going through the petitions, in order to ascertain the feel. loge of the people, and I carefully listened to the debate of last night ; and I beg leaee to say, that in the whole number of petitions, and in every speech I have heard, 1 found nothing else but a substantial ackasinn of the evil against which this measure is pointed, and nothiog like a tangible alternative for the measure proposed. My lion. Friend, the 31ember for Kent, declared last night, that he would readily accede, if left to art fur himself, to the admission of Roman Catholics to all place except seats in Paelisenent ; but while he made this declaration lee admitted Otat there were few of his friends who concurred with Lim 1 in m'''.er respects on this question who would approve of ' this alternative. ,And if the Hon. Baronet would have few abettora of this plan on his own side of the House,without aspiring to the merit of prophecy, I might undertake to say that such An idea would not be likely to meet the concurrence of fief? advocates on this side.—(Hear, hear.) —lndeed, if I could believe that the leaders of the foreman Catholic body would nansent to a compromise, which would confer other actvantagea upon their body and yet ex clude them from Parliament, I should have the most de graded opinion of them. I should think that they de served the privations which they suffer, if they would con sent to be emaoeipated on terms which adMitted them to every place and every bounty within the patronage of the Crown, yet declared tbem unfit to be the Representatives of the People.—(Cheers.)-eeTo me it appears that dile specific proposition for the ezeedasion of Roman Catholics from seats in Parliament, whilst yemm admit them to all other offices of ixust and power, is frassgist with much greater danger Our; if you throw Parliausent es well as all other offices open to them ; for, as the propion does not exclude them from being Members of the King's Council, you may have a Protestant King surrounded by Roman Catholic Councillors, who woods! not appear in their places in this House to be responsible to Parliament for their advice.—(Hear, hear.)—lt had - been eseeseentled by some that there would be a small number, and by other Hon. Members that there would be a peat num ber of Roman Catholic Members, in the event of the pass ing of this measure of concession. The effect of this measure es to the number of Roman Catholics who by it may Ise introduced is a subject into which am unwilling to enter, for I own I have no appre hension of this lieu'e being deluged with Papal Repre sentativee. I have no ,car that they will exceed the re lative proportion which that' ought to bear to the wealth, time respectability, and the property of the Roman Catholic portion of the community. There will be no more an ex cess of Representatives from the Roman gotholic popu lation, than there is danger that water will rise glove the spring from which it flows. I do mot think it desiriik, as some Hon. ,Caentlemen do, that there chould be the smallest possible neotmher of Roman Catholic Representa tives returned to this Hoose. I should rather see a large and competent namber, proportionate to the Roman Ca tholic population, wealth, and panperty, in the came way that I wish to see the number of Proteatant Representa tives p ro isortionate to the Prote.etant population, property, and interest: of the empire. In the arst place, A t14 7 11i. it -lesirable, as a Brinciple of representation, that there silicealti be such a proportion between the representative and gonsti, tient body; secondly, I think that a great number of man Catholic Members would serve to weaken the ten dency to concentration, el.nsald there be a design of their acting together as a separate tiasa la this House ; thirdly, and lastly, I think it desirable that there s4onld be a suffi cient number of Roman Catholics, in order to eeoder the oleo:sure efficaciona, and productive of the benefit ,coastano plated from it, and that it might not, like so iii24l-y .0 tiler measures of intended benefit for Ireland, appear good uposa paper, but fail in communicating practical advantages.— hear.)—The Hon. Member Sin' Newark (Mr. Sad ler) referred much of the misery that prevaijed in Ireland to absenteeism ; and reeonueleaded the provision esf a re- Namely for -tisat misekief as the means of correcting the isting evils of society in that country. 710 Hon. Member further recommended mild and humane measures gl,egis -I,tion, and the introduesi.on of the Poor-laws into Iretaas --(Loud eriees of hear, Lear, I - sear, from the Anti-Catholic Benches.)--Absenteeism was no : doubt an evil, and it might be well to provide a remedy for ii; so might the other mosses pointed out ley .the Horionraislo Member he beneficial as specific measures for specific parpoeee of improvement; but they were quite inakolicable as effica cious correctives of the present condition and ;tate of so ciety in Ireland. To suppose that the devising a coos for I absenteeism would be a cure far the present miseries and disorganization of society in Ireland, wnead be about as reasonable as if a person were to enter Landoll in 1665, and on beholding the miserable !peetacles of persons perLh ingduring the abcenee of -thew friends, while there was not a relation near to dose their eyesa,should ask why these evils and why this desolation prevailed throughout the city?—.and should be told, i n reply, that all these sof. legislative crime if they tultnit its professors to the poli tical advantages of the Constitution. This point has been urged in and out of doors ; among others, by a clergyman of great respectability, who has published a pamphlet on it. Now I beg leave, in reply to that argument, which has been strongly made and circulated, to once for all protest against an opinion that the Catholic question is a question between the comparative purity or excellence of the Protestant and Roman Catholic religions.—(Loud cries of " Hear.") — For myself and those who have invariably advocated concession to the Catholics, I must disclaim such a notion, so preposterous that I would not have no ticed it bad it not been so repeatedly and zeal ously urged. With respect to the oath alluded to, I took it, and that not lightly, nor as a matter of form. I am prepared to show that it expressed my fixed and delibe rate opinions. I take it with a clear conscience, but (I confess) always with wounded feelings, as I am sure is the case with other Honourahle Membrs.—(Hear, hear.) But when eminent and respectable men refer us to sacred examples of the interdiction of all communication with men of false and idolatrous religions, I may surely warn thein against what seems to me a scarcely consistent ap plication of such precedents. Those cases of interdiction excluded not only benefits given to the misbeliever, but be nefits received front him. Those therefore who recommend on such grounds the exclusion of the Catholic from the Con stitution, should advise his exclusion in all other respects; but Ido not find them scrupulous in receiving his assist ance, whatever their scruples in bestowing on him civil privilege. They have no objection that England should avail herself of the resources of that brave, hardy, and ge nerous population.—(Cheers.)—lreland contributes three millions of revenue to this country. This is all right, for Ireland is part of this kingdom.—(Hear.)—lreland yields three millions more in her commercial intercourse with Great Britain, which reaches the pocket of the British imams facturer. This, too, is as it should be ; it is right that all com mercial distinctions should be withdrawn. Ireland, again, gives thirty-one thousand men to our military establish ments. This again is quite right ; for, surely Irishmen are as true Britons as ourselyes.—(Laughter, and cries of hear, hear.)—Thus far all is right and fair—for the Ca tholics to participate in your revenue, in your commerce, in your military establishments; and to contribute, by their labour and energies, to uphold your Protestant Con stitution : nor do you object that the ark of your Establish ment is sustained by unhallowed hands. But when they ask you for some share, :some merely fractional portion, of your political privileges, you treat them as wretched idola tors, and ignominiously reject their claims.—(Loud and continued cheering, which lasted several minutes.) As soon as the Hon. Gentleman became audible. after the applause which followed upon the delivery of the foregoing passage, he continued as follows :—Besides, if the removal of a test excluding Catholics amounts to the formation of a national union with their religious opinions, I want to know, if the absence of any test excluding all other false or heretical re ligionists, nay infidels, amounts to a national union with the belief or unbelief of all those persons. Yet this is the fact, our test excludes Catholics, ; but all other religions, however monstrous, and the Scoffer who has none, " Omnigeniimque Deitin monstra, et latrator Anubis," find unrestricted entrance. The Hon. Member for Newark said that religious belief is a necessary qualification for office in this country. I beg to say that there is no test which ascertains the religious sentiments of a candidate for office or for Parliament, except that he is not a Ca tholic ; which of course a man is not who is of no religion at all. I contend, contrary to the opinion of the Hon. Member for Newark, that the leading principle of the British Constitution is to communicate a participation of its benefits to all those who live under it. Ex clusion is the exception, and not the principle, of the British Constitution, nor of any good Government. All common sense, and all the deductions of reason, esta blish the advantage which results from the great body of the people of any country being united in one interest. When they cordially combine in the attainment of the general good—when the poor supply the labour—when the rich supply the means, and when the wise supply the counsel— the success of the great object in view is secured. The Constitution of this country never, as has been asserted by the Hon. Member for Newark, proceeded upon a principle of exclusion by classes. It is to foreign shores, aye, even to Asiatic shores, he must go to find that principle esta blished. The principle of our Constitution is equality of civil rights, when no expediency exists for denying it. Such is the spirit of our municipal law; and it is u niversally admitted that, when the Divine Law does not oppose the Laws of the State, it sanctions and confirms them. On these grounds and with these sanction', the supporters of this great and important measure may, I conceive, pro-. perly vote for it ; humbly trusting that their sincere and honest endeavours will receive the blessing of that Pro vidence which over-rulesall human affiirs. If lam right in these premisesnallow me to conclude in the words of one of the immortal speeches of Mr. Canning on t he present subject. . Let us not stop short from any feeling of false pride ; nor incur the responsibility of having taught a people to seek for general peace at our hands, and of then forcing them to retire back upon themselves. Let us rather in the language of both Liturgies, exclaim stasum corda ! Let us raise our hearts to the Dispenser of all good ; and with that elevation of soul let us proceed in that great work which we have begun, and which, sooner or later, will find its own way to the final consummation so de voutly to be wished by all good men."—(The Hon. Gen tleman concluded amid loud cheers from all parts of the House.) Mr. TRANT apologised to the House for trespassing upon their attention, but he felt it his duty to say a few words on the present most important question. For his part, he could see nothing in the state of Ireland, nothing in the state of England, nothing in the state of our relations with the other Powers in the world (which appeared to be of a most comfortable nature), that rendered it necessary to have recourse to a measure which, he maintained, to be of a most unconstitutional character. The principle of the Constitution from the time of Charles the Second to the present moment, had been to exclude the Roman Ca tholics from any share in legislative or political power. Such was the principle, and he and those who with him were opposed to the measures proposed by his Majesty's Government, were not to be driven from the assertion of that principle by any taunts of their adversaries. It was argued by time supporters of the measure, that such was the state of affairs in Ireland, that no other course could be pursued with advantage or safety. He denied that that was the case. Why had not his Majesty's present Govern ment imitated the firmness of Mr. Pitt, who, in a time of danger similar:to that which it was said now existed, had on his own responsibility applied measures to suppress it? He was convinced, that in addition to their other mis chievous consequences, all propositions calculated to tran quillise and benefit Ireland would be greatly retarded if not entirely frustrated by the measures now proposed; and the result of which must of necessity be, that Ireland would become actually and entirely a Catholic country. Nor was the apprehension of such a state of things confined to Ireland. He would ask the Right Hon. Secretary of State if, under the proposed Bill, a Jesuit might not be Prime Minieter of England ? Let hint answer that; and if he answered it as he (Mr. Thant) knew lie must do, in the affirmative, let the House consider what might by possi bility he the result. For himself, a great deal was passing in his mind non the subject of a very painful nature. Who cooled predict what might occur if there were at the same time a Jesuit Prime Minister, and a Catholic fa vourite of the female sex?—(A laugh ?)—When he con sidered these and other circumstances, and when he consi dered that, as had been stated by the Right lion. the Co lonial Secretary, a very considerable proportion of the standing army was composed of Irish Catholics, it was im- Irossibte foe hint net to look forward to a constant increase in the Catholic claims. In conclusion, the Hon. Gentle span read a passage from the inteeilnetion of a pamphlet by the ;eke Lord Clare, intended to open the eyo of the country to the danger nigh which it teas threatened by the state of Ireland. Mr. HORACE TWISS said, the steongeet way in which I have lately heard the main argument on the other aide stated, is in the form of the question, whether, since the Catitti:iii Church is the avowed antagonist of our own, it will be peudent in us to share our political power with fix or seyenMillione of one atlesersariee ? Anil that question i 3 sulked, es if 's the Protestants, liepmg two-this.de of the whole British empire, were streightsvey proceeding to invest the Catholics, who form the rePaining third, with the immediate possession of some given proportion of the Legislature, and of all the offices and honours of the State. That is a very ingenious, but is it a fair way of represent- Ingo thin tra.U.;f:: to the people? Those who talk that lan guage isisOsV Vely - saiei, C 4 if they do not, they have no business to talk on suchsnlijeces at zfi, tlllt it is not the possession of office—that it is not the pPSßeesioet pf (ien::,a ment which this Bill propose s to bestow, but onlythe ce isticte to hold office, and the capacity to sit in Parliateeet, Th'e!distinctiet. ie terely a broad one, between giving to ens man an actual benent, aral giving Mtn the mere leave io recek'ye that'benefit Vibe can get it ; anti elief is just the distinction leetseen the Bill itself and your version of it. But the Counc:is of the Icing bAUF oac:e . thydvtin'tpen to the Catholics, how, it is asked, will you protect his Ma jesty against their evil advice? Sir, the access of Popish servants to time King was provided against by the same Statute of Charles 11. which excluded Papists from Par liament, and which it is one of the objects of this Bill to remodel.' s Is - Cow if this facility of approach to the much danger to the King be realtyniendeti Constitution, how has it happened that the wisdom I And, with perpetual inroads, to alarm, of our Protestant Legislature, which has so long kept I Though inaccessible, his•fatal throne, up the bar erected by the Statute against the machine- I Which, if not victory, is yet revenge." toms of any Catholic in Parliament, should have ex- In that position it is not for the safety, it is not for the punged from the Statute, as in the last reign it did ' dignity of the British Crown, that the people of one of these expunge, the prohibition that kept away Catholic ser- kingdoms should remain—and from that position this mea vents from the King ? In the present state of your law, • sure displaces them. But what fiwther plea it is asked, which you deem se satisfactory and so secure, the Papist, have Ministers for relaxation now than they had in any whom in his open responsible character you reject and former year? It might be a sufficient justification to refer dread, is at liberty to frequent the very closet of the King, to the Clare Election ; but there is another, still more un in a private irresponsible capacity.—(Hear.)—But when answerable—the continued repetition of disappointment the Catholics shall once be admissible to be Peers, a King, i from the opposite policy. If at the commencement of the if he be of a Popish way of thinking, may increase their i five-and-thirty years which have elapsed since Lord Fitz number, till they amount to a majority of the other House william was sent to Ireland by Mr. Pitt, it could have of Parliament. I will not go so far in imitation of those been foreseen that so great a lapse of time, instead of whom lam opposing, as to draw, like the Hon. Member bringing with it any cure, any alteration, would only leave for Newark, distinction between the moral and the legal the condition of Ireland where it now stands, is there any title of the Sovereign, or to inquire what' became of the man among those loudest against concession who will say one King who pursued a Popish policy against the feeling that, with that knowledge before him, he would have coun of his Protestant subjects. There is no necessity for enter- selled his Sovereign to begin this hopeless series of disasters? ing into these distinctions, because the hypothesis that the (Hear.) And if not, can there be any inconsistency now King may be of a Popish way of thinking is, on the prin- in finally relinquishing so unsuccessful an experiment ? ciples of the Anti-Catholics themselves, an impossible one. 1 ask my opponents themselves, in the present state of They hold, and very justly, that so long as the Coronation public feeling in England, and of enthusiastic agitation Oath subsists, which is and must remain the security of throughout Ireland—after the union of all parties in the the Crown, the Sovereign who takes that test must be a Government—after the recommendation from the Throne Protestant and nothing else; and then they build an argu- —after the universal diffusion of the belief, that the mea ment on the supposition that such a Sovereign may, never • sure, so supported, was sure of ultimate accomplishment, timeless, be a Catholic. Why, Sir, if he may, then so may whether they can form a conception of the dangers which the Peers and the Members of Parliament who take the would follow, if they could now prevail on Parliament to existing oaths be Catholics; and then to what value do turn round upon the Crown, by which those hopes had you reduce those existing oaths, on which alone you rely been raised, and refuse the grace recommended ? My own at this hour for the exclusion of any Catholic at all.— opinions having always been in favour of concession ; the (Hear.) That some Catholics will find their way, not question whether others were at liberty to change is one only into the House of Peers, but still more into this House of no personal interest to me; but I solemnly declare, that of Parliament, no men of course will deny; indeed, that if, up to the moment when I heard his Majesty's speech is one of the direct objects of this Bill. But if the opinions read, I had been as jealous of concession as I always was of those who are best acquainted with Irish affairs may be desirous of it--if I had been as strenuous and as able an taken, the representatives, even from Ireland, after the al- opponent of it as the Hon. Member for Kent or for Nor teration in the franchise, will be very few—will be to be wich, I should have felt that from that moment my duty counted, not in tens, but in mere units; for, on the then of resistance was over ; and that my course must no improved order of electors, the:Protestant landlord will pro- longer to be to consider what strength might have been bably have that influence, which, on the present very mustered, if Government had continued to disregard the ' humble class of voters, is exercised but by the Priest. sullen warnings of the time ; but what, in the present The Hon. Member for Newark is of opinion that the analo- crisis, when hope and passion have been kindled to their gies of the Constitution require us to exclude the Catholics height, will be the way to quirt the country, and, if pos -that as we have a pecuniary, so we ought to maintain a bible, to satisfy it, and, at all events, to save it.—(Hear.) religious qualification. Sir, there is this difference—that Lord MOUNTCHARLES cordially thanked the Go the pecuniary qualification may be obtained by any man vernment for bringing forward the present measure ; but through his own honest industry ; but the religious quali- although he did not mean to deny that great errors had tication can he obtained by the follower of the excluded faith been committed at elections, he thought it an act of great only through a crime against his Creator. Without that injustice at once to take away from thousands and hundreds crime, to qualify is impossible. Every man in that situa- of thousands of individuals, the rights which they had so tion is not only unqualified, but disqualified ; and though long possessed. Much, however, ought to be sacrificed to the principle of the Constitution may consistently recognize the present measure, which could be carried only by mu the pecuniary requisition, which is only a qualification, it tual concessions. He believed the Right Hon. Secretary will not, therefore, sanction the religious requisition, which might console himself for the bitterness of invective heaped amounts to a disqualification.—(Hear, hear.)—The Con- upon him, in the consciousness of the highest reward which stitutiun, says the Hon. Member, demands a moral as well a British Statesman could receive—the thanks of a grateful AS a pecuniary qualification—that he whom it admits be a and long-suffering people. Christian. It does no such thing—there is its defect. He Lord PALMERSTOIsf wished to advert to the re may be a Pagan, or a Deist, or an Athiest—any thing, so marks made by an Hon. Member below him, and by an he be not a Catholic. The Constitution has not said that Hon. Baronet opposite, that the repeal of the Catholic Christianity shall be indispensible for admission into Par- disabilities was at variance with the views and intentions of liament ; but if it had said so, does the Hon. Gentle- those who produced the Revolution of 1688. He, on the man mean to state that Catholicism is not Christianity ? contrary, would assert, that those great men, in 1688, It if he not, then for the first thirteen centuries after Christ rescued themselves and their posterity from religious into- Christianity had no existence in Christendom.—( Hear.) lerance and political tyranny, and that the present oppo- I trust that the debates in this House are beginning to un- nents of the measure were supporters of that very reli deceive the people ; to make them understand that exclu- gious intolerance which their ancestors successively re sions and tests are no part of our Constitution, as it was sisted, and were withholding from their fellow-subjects wrought by its founders; that its basis, its essence, is the the blessings of that Constitution which they este common law of the land, which proclaims the competency !dished with se much courage. He saw, in the pre of every natural born subject to all benefits whatsoever. sent opposition, that religion was made the watch- Indeed it can never he too widely proclaimed, that the word of party strife, and that the words of salvation great protecting principle of exclusion—the work which and peace were perverted to purposes of warfare.—We the Hon. .Member for Newark, and other good Protestants, have beard much reference made to King William and the delight to describe as the foundation of our glorious settle- Revolution of 1688, but the fabric on which King William Inca—is the work not of King William, as people are apt intended to rear the Protestant Constitution was the ab to imagine, nor of the statesmen of an earlier time, but dis- sence of all persecution for religious tenets and belief. If tinctly and specifically of Dr. Oates. It may be to Kings and that had not been his object, and the real nature of the to Parliaments that we are obliged for the mere rights and system on which the Revolution was founded, instead of liberties we enjoy ; but for that main characteristi", that best commemorating his arrival in this country for the preserv jewel of our Constitution, the exclusion of our fellow-sub- ation of its liberties, we would have strong cause to curse jects, for that we are iodebted to the labours of Dr. Oates. the day on which he set his footsteps on our shores. But My Hon. Friend, the Member for Corfe Castle, has not King William came not to promote the cause of persecu explained sufficiently to snake me understand why the par- tion and intolerance, but to protect our civil and religious ticular period of 1688 should be pressed, by Ultra-Pro.. liberties. But what is the state in which Ireland is now testants, as the only point of reference in these discussions. found by the manner in which it has, unfortunately been The Revolution saved these kingdoms : be it so; but did too long governed? We have a kind of civil war raging it first impart the Protestant character to our Constitution? throughout the country ; we have been driving the Was King William the first Protestant Sovereign of these most noble and generous natures to a state of de reahns ? Why, Sir, the Constitution was just as Protest- gradation and discontent ; we have been paralysing every ant under Queen Elizabeth as it was under the House of expedient that has beeneesorted to for tie purpose of raising Orange itself; and it was only by his defection from this their character ;we have been throwing every obstacle in indispensable Protestant creed that King James ever for- the way of their improvement, and we have been too long felted his Crown. If the problem were to steer the na- acting on a system with respect to the Roman Catholic tion through same conflict between liberty and arbitrary population, which, if much longer persevered in, must power, the Revolution might well be assumed as our work the destruction of the Empire.—(Hear.)—But it pole-star ;if we wanted, in some civil war, an example was said that the Roman Catholics entertained opinions how to crush the strength of our adversaries, the Re- which must interfere with their duties as loyal subjects,— volution might well be cited as our precedent. But and that, if admitted to political power, they would sap out of the whole history of our Protestant Constitu- and undermine the foundation of the Constitution, and in tien, from the reign of Elizabeth to the repeal of the troeluce Popery and despotism. This, however, the Cs- Penal Statutes under Geo. 111.—out of that entire history, tholics solemnly deny. They say that there is nothing in to choose the agitated period when a Monarch had just their tenets or their principles that could in . u..e them to been dethroned, and when a bloody struggle for his restore- attempt to upset the fabric of the Constitution, or to intro tion in that part of his realm which was, and is, most espe- duce despotism, even if they should have it in their power, cially Catholic, precluded all calmness of deliberation, which they will not. But supposing they did entertain and made even the extretnes of illegality warrantable ; views hostile to the Constitutis a and the civil and roil to select such a period of compulsory legislation, as the gious liberties of the country, it has been properly asked pattern xra of our Church and State, for the purpose how they could carry their intentions into effect? and to of irrevocably binding a peaceful posterity, is a bold- this no answer less been given. I will suppose that, eon ness which, even by its frequent repetition, has not yet wary to all probability—l will not say impossibility—that ceased to be astounding. It is neither more nor less than the Catholic leaders should entertain so wicked and absurd to draw civil precedent from martial law.—(Hear.) —Sir, a project as that of an attempt to destroy the Consti when e Lord Treasurer Middlesex had been found guilty by tution in Church and State, and that for that pur his peers, on impeachment for certain corruptions, and pose they could unite the whole body of the Roman sentenced by them that be should never sit in Parliament Catholics in one common assent to their schemes, they more, Lord Clarendon, no vulgar judge of British Law would have first to gain the assent of a Constitutional and the Constitution, questioned that sentence, as being, King, and next that of a Constitutional Cabinet; and says he, " A clause of such a nature, as was never before even supposing they succeeded so far, what could any found in any judgment of Parliament, and iu truth not to Ministry effect that could lend itself to such projects?— be infli c ted upon any Peer but by attainder." That is, The foundation of such an Administration must be weak unless there not only have been a crime committed, but ness, and it is impossible that they could for a moment— unless that crime be of magnitude sufficient to warrant the after announcing such a project, or after a reasonable sus extremity of attainder, a sentence of incapacity to sit in picion once entertained that they meditated such a scheme, Parliament is an unconstitutional sentence upon an hll- they could not maintain themselves in their situation. All victual Peer. Upon an individual Peer ! Why here is a Protestants, both in the Houses of Parliament and among sentence upon an entire order—upon an entire nation ! the public in general, would flee from their standard, and The well known solecism in constitutional policy which the result must be that they would be spurned from their drew down the indignant ridicule of Mr. Burke was the places with discomfiture, ignominy, and disgrace. The preferring of a bill of indictment against a whole people ; bare statement of the proposition, that the Constitution of but you go infinitely further : you visit a whole nation this country could be upset by such means, forms an an with a bill of attainder. But if Ireland is no longer in a saver to itself. The Hon. Member for Kent said the other ' state of war to warrant a rigour beyond the Constitution, night, that he did not find fault with the conduct of the is she in such a state of tranquillity as to indicate that Catholics, but that his objection was to their religious the system of rigour has the merit of working well? creed and tenets. The Hon. Member could not mean by Good God ! what spectacle is it which, for the sake of that that there was any real danger to be apprehended the Constitution, the lovers of social order are so anxious from the mere abstract belief in transubstantiation, or any to perpetuate in Ireland ? The whole of her great papilla- other dogma. What he must have meant was, that there tion in a state of ceaseless excitement—confidence and was something in the religious doctrines and opinions of even commerce suspended—the kindly feeling between the the Roman Catholics inconsistent with A cordial support of higher and lower classes intercepted in its current—tire the Protestant Constitution. But, in the first place, the natural influence of the oldest families, in the heart of Roman Catholics utterly deny this; and even if they were their domains, in the centre of their clans, paralyzed and insincere in that denial, and if there was any thing in overthrown—massacre and burning, and banding together their religious dogmas and notions inconsistent with a cor -enmity transmitted from father to son, and the blight of dial support of the Protestant Constitution, I say that it suspicion and fear ! These are not fictions nor exaggera- will be totally out of their power to do any injury to that tions ; they are facts, recorded in the Statutes on this Constitution, If the question, Sir, were whether we table. When Gentlemen speak with such timid scrupu- should or should not have Catholics, then I would lousness about the danger of the slightest infringement of the answer that it would be better that we should Constitution, let me ask what they think of such Statutes have no Catholics, but that the whole population as these?—whether they think either the letter or the of the country, should be Protestants. But that is spirit of the Constitution is much preserved by the Act, for not the question, for there the Catholics are—five or six example, which we have been under the necessity of pass- millions—scattered over the country, from one extremity to ing in this very Session, for the suppression of popular another; and the only question is, 'what we are to do with meetings? Or will they bear to have it said that they are them since they are there—whether we are to make them ready enough p to , . ase a breach in the Constitution for friends by concession , or e n e mi e s by exclusion?—(Hear, purposes cif" and pen:,shmermt, and that it hear.) —I thinly the fissure! coarse is the best to pursue. is only egeinet conciliation and ki n d /we e that they Would lam Opposing that the Catholics would imagine that they keep it perpetually barred ?—(Cri e s o f H e ar, hear.") had one common interest in undermining the foundations Sir, the apprehensions of danger from the admission of of the Constitution, and would make the attempt to do so; Catholics into the pale of the Constitution were at no time still supposing the basis on which the opponents of conces very reasonable; but what shall We say to them at the sion rest, I argue even on the supposition that this was the present day, when, for the very want of that power which true basis, that the only sound and good policy is concession. the Catholics might gain by admission, they enjoy another I presume the Hon. Baronet himself does not sanction the power of ten times its magnitude and mischief by exclu- imputation on the Catholics, that it is one of the tenets of sion ? not now cf their legal rights—their right their religion that no faith is to be kept with heretics ; but to servo on jirrieS, in the 'magistracy; in the army and navy his objection to them is, that they hold a divided allegiance, speak not of the momentous iranchtse of retnrning re- yid that they may be induced, by foreign influence, to be presentatives to Parliament; but I see that they have tray their duties 44 British subjects, and to prove traitors physically outgrown your early laws—that amid the dark- to their Sovereign. This, too, the Roman Catholics utterly ness which sun ounds them on every other point, they deny; and they say that there is no test that can be de have acquired a singular knowledge of their own strength vises', no oath that can be prescribed to them as a security —that knowledge which, above all others, is, emphati- for their allegiance to their Sovereign—if any such security eally,pooesr. r e nts at their numbers—at the talents and could be deemed at all necessary or expedient—that they eurprising . enersiee 4 z ) i• 1:-1'.;(ler2--at their hold upon would not he ready to take and subscribe to with all their public, even upon Protestant •Opinion---delta shim f:',lnif3 h ear t s . B u t it m a y be said that oaths are words, and that they command, at the insecurity they spread,at the parki= words are lit air. Why, then, if you are not satisfied with doxical contrast between the disorders they can commit oaths amid Wordi, look at their actions, and let them speak and the order they can preserve—think of all these elements for them. -If the Rennin Catholics could be induced by -of hiLeitier, eVen utra , fermenting for your disquiet, and foreign influence, or 'any other Consideration, te'peoyo traitein then youe lti,on,:e4raSion:hoerthen the time is not gone by for talking to their country and their Sovereign, in what situations would of the Catholics es a'bOYVhnse pever - is fa he . treated by they have the best opportunities of carrying their intentions end ecliernes into elect? In the military service of the stifled . by your refusal? - Their Position is best described by the fallen angel, when he exclaims-- country, both in the Army and the Navy. But into time na tional military service, ben' by sea and land, they are al- On thisready by law admitted—not by any old law so far back as Our power sufficient to disturb his Heaven, t h e rei g n of Charles 11., bu t b y a l a t e Act, which wa s not Tide nothing ; ------d We e by are proof at worst we feel • opposed even by those who were the readiest to proclaim this charge against the Catholics. On what ground, then, have we trusted the Catholic in the centre of our garrisons and our fleets?—(Hear, hear.)—He may by law command our fleets and our armies in battle, when a single act done, or a single act omitted to be done, might prove most disastrous, perhaps fatal, to the country. Why has the Catholic been admitted to such situations? For what other reason but that we had confidence in his fidelity, and he may say that the confidence has not been misplaced.— (Hear.)--But when the question is about the Catholic having a scat in the Legislature, where he can only be one of a few, can it be reasonably contended that his faith can not be trusted ?—(Hear, hear.)--What can be the mean ing of that reasoning and that conduct which rests on the supposition that the Catholic, who, notwithstanding his alleged divided allegiance, may be saNy entrusted with the command of our fleets and armies, and the most important ' charge of leading them to battle, cannot with safety be per mated to vote in a Committee of Supply ?—(llear, hear.) In this respect our ancestors were wiser than we have been They hated and feared the Catholics, and that with some reason. We hate and fear the Catholics without any rea son at all. They wished to destroy the Roman Catholic religion, and set about it in good earnest. They just did not go quite so far as to say that a Roman Catholic had a wolf's head, and might be put to death wherever he was found; but they did drive him from civilized society like a wild beast, and forced him to retire to his wild haunts an.l his secret coverts. But we—while we subject him to disabilities and exclusions amply sufficient to excite discontent and rancorous feelings, allow him at the same time to growl about the streets, and entrust him with the guardianship of our lives and fortunes, and only shut against him the portals of this House and the other House of Parliament. If the faith of the Roman Catholic cannot be depended on, then we have gone a great deal too far ; and if it may be depended on, then we have stopped short too soon.—(Hear, bear,)—But then it may be said, and has been said, that the Roman Catholics cannot be safely trusted with political power. What is it that con stitutes political power ? Is it the mere admission into the Legislature and offices of State ? Wealth and intelligence will give political power much more effectually. These will always give political influence all over the world, whether in the east or the west, the south or the north. But wealth, and even honours, you have already given them, and intelligence you have been forcing on them with the utmost zeal, and their numbers have been remarkably increased; and now, when they have become so much more numerous, more intelligent and civilized, and so much more wealthy than hey ever were before, we are to go on descanting whether we should admit them to any share of political power—(Cheers,)—and whether we ought not to exclude them from this and the other House of Parliament ?—(Cheers ?)—Have those men of talents no political power who can sway five or six millions of the people of the United Kingdom to their will.—(Hear.) _ _ _ —Have they not political power who hold the pas sions of such multitudes in a leash, and can let them loose how, and when, and to what purpose they please.— (Hear, hear.)—Have they not political power who carry peace or war in the folds of their garments ?—(Hear.)—lf such persons had not political power, there was no meaning in words, and no danger in arms. This was a power which could only be destroyed by the extermination of the Catholics. But that is impossible; and therefore I call on those who are most apprehensive of that power to con cur in the adoption of a measure which, as the political power of the Catholics cannot be destroyed, will convert it from an instrument of danger to the State into a source of health, etiength, and prosperity. By the last returns in 1821, it appears that the population of England was four teen millions, and that of Ireland seven millions. From the population of fourteen millions, the revenue was fifteen millions, from the seven millions only five millions. What is the reason of this difference? Is it owing to the barren ness of the soil, or to the want of intelligence and industry in the people? It is well known that the soil is remark ably fertile, that the climate is good, and that the people are intelligent, and would be industrious if they had due encouragement. What, then, can be the reason of the difference? I shall be told that it is owing to the want of capital, and the consequent want of employment for the people. But why has not British capital found its way to I Ireland ?—that capital and enterprise which finds its way to all the rest of the world, while it cannot be attracted to that island, forming part of the United Kingdom, which is situate, as it were, within a stone's throw of Great Britain ! British capital has found its way over the Andes, and even to the Antipodes; and there is baldly any adventure,- how ever hazardous, hopeless, and desperate, in which it has not been invested. But it is driven from Ireland by the un settled condition of the country, the consequence of the dis sensions and divisions arising from these political exclusions. The wand of a potent enchanter has been drawn round Ireland, and drives back capital and industry from the pro hibitory circle. But let us break the enchanter's spell, and suffer capital, and industry, and peace, at last, to visit the shores of Ireland ; and, for the put pose of effectuating that t great national object, there is no plan that can be adopted so well calculated to be attended with success as Catholic Emancipation. I wish that those who oppose concession would go to the South of Ireland, and see with their own eyes the condition of the people, and the discontent and rankling passions which prevail among them on account of these exclusions, and witness the state of anarchy an d dis order which results from the same cause. I wish they could witness in what a fierce, political, and partial manner even the laws are administered. And if a view of the condition of the South of Ireland failed to convince them, then I wish they would visit the North of Ireland among the Protes tants, and there see how noble natures are corrupted by the possession of undue and exclusive powers and privileges.-- To put an end to this state of things, there is no other mode than that of settling the Catholic question in the way of reasonable concession. In any other way the safety of the Constitution can only be ensured by the s word. There are three modes which have been suggested for put ting an end to this state of things; to check absenteeism-- -- to introduce the Parliament into Ireland—and to engage in a civil war. But if you wish to check absentecienn you must first make Ireland inhabitable. Do that by putting an end to the distractions of the country, and the absentees will return. As to the introduction of the Poor Laws into Ireland,l should say that it is a most miserable substitute for concession. It has been said that the people of Ireland are improvident—and is the cstab lishment of the Poor Laws in that country likely to be an available remedy for that improvidence ? It has been said that much of the misery of Ireland has arisen from the over population of the country ; and is the intro duction of the Poor Laws likely to form a check on po pulation ? We have seen how the Poor Laws have been supposed to operate where they have been established ; we have had Committees sitting year after year in order to ascertain if, by any possible means, England could be relieved from the curse of the Poor Laws ; and can it he imagined that it would add to the prosperity and tranquillity of Ireland to transfer the Poor Laws to that country? Then comes the remedy of civil war, which, though not proposed in terms, is the only inference that can he drawn by any rational man from the words of many of those who talk of the means by which Ireland is to be kept quiet. They say, in effect—war we must beye i sooner or later, and now, as we are better prepared for it than we may afterwards be, we will fight it out. But it ought to lie recollected, that blßod has been already shed in Ireland—(hear, hear)—and many more seized, and ,j brought to trial and punishment. These means were suc cessful in repressing the disorders of the country for the moment, hut did they go to the sources and causes of the evil ? Or did they not rather leave the poison rankling more deeply in the heart ?—(Hear, hear.)—l have sai d before, and I repeat, that there will be no danger whatever I from concession to the Catholics, even if they should eel- tettain mischievous designs, anti could pseyail on a weak i and unprincipled Administration to support them ; for whets every - 1 - eortl is spoken here at night flies on the wings of the wind next morning over all parts of the country, it is utterly impossible that any such Administration could stand, for the attempt would raise a storm in which they must be overwhelmed. There are some Gentlemen who have ever lived in sect , - city under the protection and shield of the law, vi o'N slumbers have never been broken be the flashing of angry owords—whose hat•ve:49 have never beep trodden ender foot by the contests of armed mere who may talk of civil war as a species of pastime, and as a sort of sport for children—" They jest at scars who never felt a wound." But there are Gentlemen amongst us who have not been PO fortunate—who have seen men starving before them-- who have beard with our ears, and seen with our eyes, a ll the miseries of civil war, and know, by experience, the barbarism and barbarity it engenders; that such talk of civil war as a subject:of mirth, us anything but the greatest of national calamities, fills me with astonishment.---' (Cheers.)—lf we are so full and overflowing with pent-up • pugnaciousness—if the land is bursting with the accumu lated ferociousness of fourteen years' general peace, let us waste it against every country of the world, end not turn it,_ in a suicidal theory, against ourselves.—(Loud cheep.) L-;-"Onnas Notes piitare, sad privipue yitiGtr4 populig helium CiVile avertere, deheinus." Sir, I will grant that We are successful. 1 will grant that the war in Ireland shall be signally and completely prosperous. I will grant , that resistance will be soon extinguished in the blood of the people. I will grant that the crimson banner of Eng- , land shall wave triumphantly amidst the ruins of smoking villages and over the ashes of destroyed towns, and float