The Sun. — London, England, 1829-05-05 00:00:00

cution. This opinion is confirmed by the A ttorney • and Solicitor-Generals; and there, I conceive, ends the question." On July 26, - I wrote to the same gentleman to inform him that "Mr. O'Connell has asked for an audience, ostensibly to engage me to send a commis sion of inquiry for a case of murder, committed by a rencontre of Orangemen and Catholics on the 12th. I give you the information in advance, as I am aware this circumstance will be commented upon. You will, I am sure, appreciate the motives that engage me to revert again to the great question. Few, even of the Orangemen, dispute the necessity of an adjustment. I conjure yon to take the state of Ireland into cansideration before the meeting of Parliament." If Dr. Curtis actually sent off that letter by that ! day's post, it could not have reached his Majesty's 1 Government till the 28th of December. On the; 28th December, however, the Noble Duke's letter is dated, by which I was recalledfrom Ireland. I presume that intention could not be first formed, on the 28th. I have ascertained that thiNolile'Diike did not see his Majesty on that day; and as 4414'1 absolutely necessary that his Majesty's sanction should be obtained to a measure of that nature, I presume that my letter to Dr. Curtis could not pos sibly have occasioned my recal. Neither could it have been occasioned by the course of policy I pur sued; for the policy I pursued was the same as that of his Majesty's Ministers, though some uneasiness might perhaps be felt at the inconvenient zeal with which I pressed the adoption of that policy which they have since so happily adopted.--(Hear, hear.) I pressed on - their attention certainly the conse quences of that question they have since had the good fortune to carry. My recal, therefore, was not the consequence of the policy I pursued. Your Lordships will find there was another cause, and to that I shall now come. My recal took place- in con• sequence of another circumstance, as it was an nounced to me on the part of the Noble Duke in a letter dated the 11th of November, which ended our correspondence, except my letter to him, dated No vember 14. I have received from the highest au thority permission to read these papers ; and I think it necessary to state this for my justification. On my applying to that High Person, with a magna nimity peculiar to himself, his Majesty—whose name is necessarily mentioned here--declared that he would waive all personal feeliNg, for the public knew his sentiments. The letter from the Duke of Wellington to me was dated November 11, and is ' as follows: — (Copy.) "London, Nov. 11, 1829. On the 27th I wrote—" O'Connell came to me this morning, and our interview took place in the presence of Lord Forbes. The object was what I have already stated." On the 29th, I stated—" As I foresaw, the in terview I granted Mr. O'Connell has been the sub ject of much vituperation." On July 31st, I also wrote as follows :—" I know the country to be in a very disturbed state. I can do nothing more than I have done. I think if the first moment of calm is not seized to declare for an adjustment, the Government must expect very serious disturbances. On the Duke of Wel lington's intentions my own course must depend. I will exert myself to keep the country quiet, and put down rebellion under any circumstances; but I will not consent to govern this country much longer under the existing laws." On September Bth, I wrote again :—" It seems agreed on all sides, that the public, feeling was never at so high a pitch of excitement as at present. The language of both parties is violent in the extreme, and both appear ripe for action. The organization of the Catholics is very complete. They carry ban ners. They form and they march by the word of command, and in good order, but they commit no outrage, and I discourage interference or display both of the military and the constabulary. The carrying party flags is illegal. Put them down, and what do you gain by it ! The law will be obey ed. The flags will disappear ; but the Meetings, the great mischief of all, will continue, and in sup pressing the minor evil, you will increase irritation and bad feelings for the laws. The speakers con tinue to be inflammatory. Expressions might pos sibly be noted that would admit of prosecution, but in general the language is nicely measured, and so equivocal as to admit of an explanation that might be strained into an excess of loyalty, and a nervous warning to the state of the danger to which it is exposed. I have yet heard of nothing that might lead to a favourable verdict." I make use of the terms Brunswiekers and Agitators, but I beg to be understood as not intending to give offence to any person.—(The Noble Marquis then continued to read an extract from the same letter.)—" The Brunswickers are rivalling the Association in vio lence and ill rent. Two Assoc: , itions and two Rents are rather formidable. " The Brunswick establishment is 7 101 very Vat ti i ng to the King or to his Ministers, or to ihe army, since i; (leen-is it necessary to take the whole u,"der its special protection. This is a most distre. , •sing state of things, and I defy any one to pronounce tipon the result—hut this I know, that things must , 4 Ma- DEAR LORD ANGLESEA,—I have been very much disappointed by the decision to which you had come, not to take any steps to remove Mr. O'Gorman Mahon and Mr. Steele from the Commission of the Peace of the county of Clare; or from that of any other county in which those gentlemen may be Justices of the Peace, " They both appeared in Ennis, on a day in which a riot was expected, and preparations were made by the High Sheriff and by other Magistrates to prevent it, or to mitigate its evil consequences, decorated with green ribands, known to be the insignia of an order established by the Roman Catholic Association, and followed by a mob. Mr, O'Gorman Mahon is stated to have held language to the officer commanding the troops in Ennis that day, in pre sence of the troops, in respect to the conduct of the High Sheriff for bringing those troops to Ennis, which appears, to say the least of it, quite incompatible with discretion or any sense of propriety; and as these facts appear to be alleged, not only by the High Sheriff, but by sixteen Ma gistrates, who were that day present in Ennis, and since, as we understood, upon oath * by the officer commanding the troop, I must say, that although these gentlemen poss!bly have not been guilty of any crime for which they can be indicted in a Court of Law with a prospect of cons viction and punishment, they have, in their conduct upon this occasion, manifested such a disposition to disturb the public peace, and so much indiscretion, and such omission of respect to the High Sheriff of the county of Clare, and to the other Magistrates acting in concert with that officer, that the Government ought to have brought their conduct di,ily t ealy under the view of the Lord Chancellor, with a v i ew t o Lordship striking their names out of the corn li!sion of the p e ,;ce each of the counties of I re l an d i n which they may be Jusi:ges• " Mr. Steele is, if I am not mistaken, the gentleman who lately adjured the people in Limerick by their ' alle giance to the Roman Catholic Association' to be tranquil. " I cannot express to you adequately the extent of the difficulties which these and other oarirrences in Ireland create in all di-cussions with his Majesty. Ile S te that in Lelaud the public peace is violated every day with im punity by those whose duty it is to preserve it, and that a formidable conspiracy exists, and that the supposed prin cipal conspirators, those whose language and conduct point them out as the avows I principal agitators of the country, are admitted to the presence of his Majesty's Representative in Ireland, and equally well received with the King's most loyal subjects. " I will not conceal from you, likewise, that your visit and those of my Lord Chancellor to Lord Cloncurry, and the attendance of Lord Cloncurry at the Roman Catholic Association, immediately subsequent to the period at which he had the honour of receiving the King's Repre sentative in his house, are not eircumatances calculated to give satisfaction to the King, and to the public in general. " The doubts which are entertained respecting the le gality of the Roman Catholic Association ; the language which has been held there respecting the King himself, his Royal Family, the Members of his Government, your colleagues in office, and respecting nearly every respect able member of Society, and the unanimously expressed detestation of the violence of the Association, might be deemed reasons for omitting to encourage any of its mem hers by the countenance or favour of the King's Repre sentative. rot remain so long. " I cannot see far before ow. I can only guess a what is likely to happen for a few months. I calculate upon a quiet winter in acts, but not in language. I ground my opinion upon this. The Catho heß are persuaded that the Brtmswickers will bring en ri'llision if they can, xvtlt the view of commit tin;' the Government against them. " I.Ws what the leaders will endeavour to avoid and with the power they pos cis over the minds of the multitude, possibly they may succeed, and then there will he proba'sly even less mime and nightly warage than has been usual. " Even if there be any project of insurrection, which I do not believe, the winter would not be the chosen season. I can imagine nothing less inviting than a rebel bivou rc during a long dreary winter's night. Therefore it appears to be probable that yen will have time to legislate, before we begin to fight." Your Lordships will see that some passages of this letter are not the opinions of the Brunswiekers, but what the Catholics thought of them. To Mr. Peel, on the 2d of September, I wrote—" I think we must soon have recourse to some vigorous mea sures. You may trust to my delaying the crisis as long as possible, as I foresee its destructive conse quences; but there is a point beyond which for bearance cannot go, and I am inclined to believe we are approaching it rapidly." And again, on September 26th, " In case the meetings are persevered in, and serious disturbances occur, I shall not hesitate to issue a proclamation, utem my own responsibility, if pressed for time, and if I cannot assemble a respectable Privy Council; and if I issue one, rest assured I'll enforce it." On the Ist of October I stated, " I cannot per l'itti/e myself we shall want any more help. The prNlamation is issued. A requisition is made for wo battalions from England. Mr. Lawless's case is under consideration." On October 2d I wrote—" My incessant care be to avoid collision. Two additional hatta- Eons, and a regiment of cavalry, with a couple of guns, if they could be conveniently spared, to place along the line of Tipperary, Limerick, and Clare, would prevent much of the usual winter excesses ; and if the leaders of the Brunswiclters would be prevailed upon to set their forces against the as sembling and the organization of the Protestants — if they would trust to the power of the Govern ment, to the wisdom of the King's Ministers, and to the judgment of Parliament, instead of at tempting to dictate to all—then this unhappy coun try might hope for comparative rest." The last letter I shall quote on this subject is to the Noble Duke at the head of the Government; it is dated November 6, and I read it because I am anxious to Lv before your Lordships the familiar terms and kindil manner in which I corresponded with his Majesty's Ministers. It was written on the occasion of his Gra,N having placed at my com mand a force more than suiNient for all the purposes of governing Ireland. " I must say, you do not do things by halves. Why, you have placed at my disposal troops enough to controul the Brunswickers and the Association, even if they should coalesce and combine to make war upon cue. " I have very reluctantly sent for two batt.:.oas.. We might have dispensed with them; but certainly the effect of their oTival simultaneously at Belfast and at Waterford will be , !toosl, and 1 hope and be lieve that I need not draw upon you for another man." " But, I assure you, that the circumstances which are subject of this letter augment the difficulties of the time to a degree which is quite incalculable, and have in duced me mogt unwillingly to trouble you on the sul.ject. Believe me, toy dear Lord Anglesea, ever your's, most sincerely, (Signed) " WELLINGTON. " His Excellency the Most Noble the Marquis of Anglvsea, K.G." To this letter I replied on' November 14 : (Copy.) " Plicenix Park, Nov. 14, 1828. "Mr DEAR DUKE WELLINGTON—I have received your letter of the 1 Ith ; nothing can give me greater dis tres than to learn ti•at my conduct in carrying on the Government of Irelawl is displeasing to the King, and em barrassing to. its Mijcsty's Minister , . " Deeply as I deplore ic, I nevertheless rejoice in being male acquainted, now fur the first time, with the view that is taken of it Up to this moment, I have been :e:t entirely in ignorance, not only as to your intention in re gard to this country, hut also as to your sentiments in re qard to my policy. They ,re now develope,!, and I shall know how to act. " If my general line of conduct has been displeasing to his Majesty, and embarrassing to his Majesty's servants, I repeat that I deeply deplore it ; but I can affirm that I have misled, I have deceived no one; for before my de parture from England, I took every means within my power respectfully to make known to the King the only system upon which I could conscientiously undertake to fill the high - and honourable situation of his Majesty's Re presentative; and I also made an explicit declaration be fore you, and Mr. Peel, and Lord Melbourne, of the view I took of the great question which agitated this country, and of the course that I should deetat it expedient to steer in regard to political and religious parties ; and I assert, without fear of contradiction, that I have scrupulously acted in the spirit of that declaration. 6 " I will now enter upon the charges made against me, and I will afterwards treat of the best manner of getting rid of the distressing dilemma in which I am stated to have placed the King's Ministers. " I take the case of Mr. O'Gorman Mahon. Mr. Mahon went to Ennis, where a meeting, called by the High She riff of the county of Clare, and atteneled by a considerable nymt . er of Magistrates, had assembled for the purpose of foroaigg a Brunswick Club. " Ms. Melion's intention (as I have been told) was to appear at the Foeeting, and to oppose the project. He presented himself at the door, and was refused admittance. " The High Sheriff and the Magistrates having appre he,utted that their meeting might create disturbance, called in a anilits.,7 force. " One subaltern, two serjeants, and thirty's-dim rank an d file, moved from Clare Castle, distant about three C)oe captain, osas subaltern, two serjeants, one and Ale, marched front Tulle, drummer, w.i thirty r ank distant about twe:!'a • No riot ensued ; the tetitehments.viresr.2 dismissed, and whilst they were filing into the zaol yard at Ennis, the :conversati-n took place between Mr. Mahon and the of ficer commanding the detachments, upon which the affi davits were founded, and with which Snag I.re; I believe, acquainted. • It ,eems you disapprove of my not having disect4 the Chancellor to dismiss Mr. Mahon front the Magistracy, in consequence of his indecorous conduct upon this occa aion. lodecorotts it C e rtainly was ; tut I deem that if I had visited it with tile severity of disnlisal, I should have been guilty of an aCt of ut o,:tiftab;e " It was the opinion - of the law officers that this breach of decorum was not indictable. It was that of the Chano ciao., that if the deposition upon oath - .had been sent to them, be could not legally have acted upon it. Upon what ground then would the Lord Litutentiot bare stood, if, in opposition to these opinions, he should have deter• mined upon,the dismissal of Mr. Mahon? I be; leave here to quote a case somewhat in point " Dining the goverment of the Marquis Welltsley, the Law 'Officers gave an opinion that proctssinns and meet ings-, such as those of Orangemen, were illegal. This opinion was communicated to the Ma:0 , 4E441. There I wrote again on the 11th October : " I shall take upon myself the responsibility of arresting Mr. Lawless on Thursday, if I do not bear from you by that day." My object in making these extracts has been to show what I thought of ale proceedings of that Catholic Association which I have been said to have supported against the Protestants; and as my view . of that Association was the same as that of his Majesty's Government, that will not explain the real motives for my recall; they are, I believe, not vet known. My Lords, it is an erroneous view, 1 apprehend, to suppose that my recall took place in em:sequence of the letter I wrote to the Catholic— ( A laugh.—The Noble Marquis found some diffi culty in dc , si!;mting Dr. Curtis, as, be y the late Bill, it is made illegal to give Catholic Bishops their titles.)—to the Most Rev. Dr. Curtis. This will be, I think amply proved to your Lordships by dates. On December 23d, I received a letter from that Rev. Prelate, covering one he had received from the Noble Duke at the bead of the Government. I answered that letter on the instant ; .but owing to a pressure of business, which I well recollect, it was not possi ble for my Secretary to take a copy of that letter I,f•rore the post went out on that day ; it was not therefor'', sent. from Dublin till the twenty-fourth, untl cou ld not reach Drogheia till she twenty-filth. N • trbicb tuts been entrusted atn, my D u k e of Wellingt on , yours very ly, 4 s Ne (Signed) " ANGLESEA. " To his Graze thc Duke( Ot Wellington, &c." To this I received an answer from the Noble Duke at the head of the - Administration, dated Nov. 19, 1828, which was as follows "I . London, Nor. 19, 1928. " Mr DEAR LORD ANGT,,MRAI 'did 'not receive till yesterday your letter of the 15th, in answer to mine of the I I th. • You tell'me that you Bare 4 ii'Vte the moment been 'lift entirely in ignorance, not only as to my intentions in reg Ird to Ireland, but also as to my sentiments in regard to your policy.' " I thought that since your appointment to the Govern ment of Ireland, there had been the most unreserved com munication of the opinion of the Kiag's servants, as to the practical course to be pursued under the various con tingencies that have arisen ; assurances given of the most cordial suppol t throughout any difficulties that might occur, and of a willingness to bear the full share of any re sponsibility. _ _ Was an Orange Meeting in the con* of Monaghan after wards. A Magistrate of the name of Johnstone - rode up to the multitude with an (rang riband in his button-hole;' be was received with cheers ; a complaint was made against him; he stated that his object was to get the people to disperse. The matter was referred by the Lord -Lieu tenant to the Chancellor (Manners), and it was not thought a case for removal. A motion was made upon the subject in the House of Commons, in 1827, by Mr. Brownlow, and the (then) Attorney-General defended the Chancellor, it being a case entirely for his discretion. "To return to Mr. Mahon :—lf his conduct was censurable, what was that of the High Sheriff and of the other Alagistrates ? and how were they to be dealt with? " Is it legal to call a meeting for a political purpose that is so far likely to endanger a breach of the peace, that the very sheriff who calls it, and who presides at it, feels it necessary to protect himself with the King's troops ? " After the most mature deliberation and consultation, I could not bring myself to exert such an act of authority as the dismissal of Mr Mahon ; and upon further reflec tion, I do now not repent of the decision to which I came. I think it was just, and I am sure it was expedient. '• I cannot think it would tend to the honour of the King's crown and dignity,that the Representative should espouse the cause of a sheriff against a magistrate, however culpable the latter may be, when the very error into which he was led was produced, if not by an illegal, at all events by a very equivocal act of the sheriff himself. The meeting was, in fact, called for a purpose not known to the Constitution. " Of Mr. Steele I know nothing but by common report. I do not doubt that upon some occasion he used the words imputed to him, That he adjured his auditors, by their allegiance to the Catholic Association, to be tranquil !' " That neither he nor Mr. O'Gorman Mahon are fit characters for the Magisterial Bench, I am inclined to be. lieve ; but up to this period, there is no fact against them that would justify the Lord Chancellor in removing them from it. " Putting out of the question your sentiments upon the Roman Catholic question, which have no connection with discussion 4 arising out of your administration of the Go vernment, I beg to remind you that I did write to you some time ago on that subject. " The imputation against Mr. Steele to which you al lude, has, I should observe, never been deposed to. " You say, I cannot express to you adequately the ex tent of the difficulties which these and other occurrences in Ireland create in all discussions with his Majesty. He . feels that in Ireland, the public peace is violated every day with impunity by those whose duty it is to preserve it ; and that the supposed principal conspirators, those whose language points them out as the avowed principal agitators of the country, are admitted to the presence of his Ma jesty's Representative in Ireland, and equally well received with the King's most loyal subjects.: _ . " It is co tainly the duty of Magistrates to preserve, not to ♦iolate the peace. Would to God they all acted upon this principle t Mr. Mahon and Mr. Steels are, no doubt, unfit Magistrates. No man of violent political and reli gious prejudices can be considered as an impartial Justice of the Peace; but I really do not know of these persons as eonspirators, nor am I at all aware of the formidable con spiracy of which you speak. " I never saw these gentlemen in my life; and I pe remptorily deny that the avow e d principal agitator; or that any agitators whatever of the country, 'are admitted into my presence, and equally well received with the King's most loyal subjects.' But to whom can you pos sibly allude ? I positively am unable to guess at your meaning, Is it of Messrs, O'Connell, Shiel, Lawless, O'Gorman Mahon, and Steele, of whom you speak ? These I can easily dispose of. Mr. Shiel and the tuo lat ter I have never seen. Mr. O'Connell once asked for an audience—it was granted. I mentioned the circumstance to Mr. Peel, even before it occurred, and I afterwards in formed him of the business upon which he came, and I have never met him since. I have seen Mr. Lawless three times. Upon the first occasion he came with a deputation of manufacturers, within a few days after my at rival. I next met him at a ball at the Rotunda, and bowed to him, as I invariably do to all persons who make me an acknow ledgroent. It was in a very crowded room, at Kings town that I met him a third time, when observing him and Sir Harcourt Lees squeezed together, and unable to pass on, ¶ jokingly said, ' That I was glad to observe such characters could bre:tthe in the same atmosphere.' My -next and last communication with that gentleman_ was sending to have him arrested. " Through what channel his Majesty can have obtained the information mentioned by you 1 am at a loss to guess. " To show hqw entirely his Majesty has been misin, formed, I have deemed it right to enter into an explanation cf e.ccurrences that I should otherwise have considered too tri►ial to notice. " The next subject of reproof is, that 1, together with the Lord Chancellor, paid a visit to the Lord Cloncurry. Wiien I went to his house all I knew of him was, that he was. an active and intelligent Magistrate, an ardent lover of Ireland, an indefatigable supporter of her interests, and a zealous friend to Catholic emancipation. " During the time I was at Lyons (his residence), I learned his earlier history. That hz. , , had been strongly suspected ofJacobinism at the commencement of the French Revolution ; that he had been arrested upon suspicion of being implicated in O'Connor's treason ; that he had been liberated for want of proof; but that he had subsequently bet n sent to the Tower, upon the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, from whence he had been again liberated without trial, and therefore, I have a right to suppose, without guilt. " Lord Cloncurry has, within a few days, attended the Catholic Association. This is the first time he has done so since my arrival; and so little is he in the habit of at tending, that I positively did not know, until I saw his speech, that h• belonged to the Association. But, with what view did he go there upon a late occasion? To suppress, if possible, one of those pernicious Resolutions that could have been passed, and that the law could not touch---I mean the non-intercourse system. Unable wholly to succeed, he, however, effected the postponement of the question, and is using his endeavours to have it set aside, I am desirous that you should notice the drift of his observations. " From all I can learn, and from all I have seen, I be lieve Lord C!oncurry to be a sedate, loyal subject, and one of the hest and most impartial Magistrates of Ireland. " If those who arraign my conduct will obtain informa tion from an untainted source, I feel the most perfect con fidence that I shall obtain the applause of my Sovereign, and the good opinion and good will of his Majesty's Ali nistere with whom I setvo. . . " I am willing, awl, indeed extremely anxious, to put my measures to any test, being fully satisfied that the more they are investigated, the more favorably they will be judged ; and I have the strongest conviction upon my mind, that the course I have pursued, is that alone which could have kept this country in the state of tr..nquillity it now enjoys. " There is a cry that the Government has lost its power, that the laws are set at defiince, that the Catholic Association has wtsurped the reins of Government. " I deny the facts. I assert that the law is in full vigour, that there is nothing within the law that may not at this moment be effected with perfect facility, " Let it be shown that the law authorities, and that ex pediency demands the suppression of the Catholic Assoc►- ation, and of tl►e Brunswick Clubs, aye, and the disarm ing the yeomanry at the same time, and I will undertake to effect it, almost without the loss of life. " I assert, that the power of the Government is unim paired, notwithstanding the insidious efforts that are not only publicly but privately making to undervalue and un dermine it for every sinister purposes. " I have stated what I conceive the power of the Go vernment to be, but I am not prepared to say that it would be expedient to exert it at this moment. On the contrary, my policy has been, and will continue to be, whilst I am left here, to avoid the collision of parties by every Foctible means, short of compromising the honour of Government. " I deprecate the teazinE system of attacking every minor offence, of which tire issue !von trial would be doubtful, and which is liable to produce irritatOn, without affecting a salutary lesson and permanent good. I would not recommend any attempt to put down' the Catholie Association under the existing law, beestise that body has been tolerated for many years (part of that time, even during the existezKe of a law passed for the express purpose of its suppression), tykez no recent weighty offence can be urged against its proceedings, which has post s but that o f pl eas i ng my pot heretofore occurred, and bee n o v erlooked. " r t ra 4 ipi for ate now only to add that I have no ob ject in holding my King, and serving my country. " If in my zealous and unwearied efforts to 4ep t the latter, incur the displeasure of the King, and los, the con fid ence cf l a ir. Majesty's servants, there cannot be a doubt that I ought ant t remain in Ireland. " To whatever decision tise a;:(1 11:3 Majesty's Ministers may come with respect to the policy to adopted in future towards this country, his Majesty may PlOst 3 kiy feel the expediency of making a change in the Go vernment .of /i:ran,tl I , I therefore request that you will offer to his Majesty my ittur t hle e d dutiful assurance that in such an event it will be my moat 'anzrou: o wish tp facilitate this measure, by meeting hie Majesty's wishes in the manner the least embarrassing, both as to time, to manner, and to eiretunf, - tance, But if, on the contrary, it should be his Royal pleasure that I should have the he oour of still remaining as his representative, I wiil faith fully and zealously continue my exertions to maintain the honour, the di<miry , and the stability . 0 1 the Government " Whatever may' be the determination of the King and his servants upon that subject, it is the duty of the Go vernment of Ireland to enforce the existing law ; and there can be no intention in respect to legislation, nor any state of circumstances in Ireland, to which the observations in ray letter to you of the I Ith inst. would not be applicable. 4 4 I perfectly recollect that you did declare, that you meant to administer the laws with the strictest impar tiality; and that the fullest assent was given by those who heard you, and is still given to that principle of Govern ment in the admiaistration of affairs in Ireland. You are quite mistaken if you suppose that you are the first Lord Lieutenant who has governed Ireland with an im partial hand. " Admitting, as I do fully, that the Government of Ireland ought to be administered with impartiality, I as sert that there is not a line i❑ my letter to you, of the I 1 th inst., which is inconsistent with such admission; nor are rny opinions, as to the conduct of Mr. O'Gorman Mahon and Mr. Steele, and the expediency of removing those gentlemen from the office of Justice of the Peace, nor those which I expressed upon other matters rather more of personal conduct, at variance with the opinion which I expressed in your room in February last, and still most decidedly expre-s, that the law in Ireland ought to be re solutely and impartially administered. " In respect to Mr. Mahon, you say that it would not tend to the honour of the King's crown that his repre sentative in Ireland should espouse the cause of the sheriff against a magistrate, however culpable the latter might be. 44 I don't defend the cause of the sheriff, and of the magistrates assembled at Ennis. Their conduct may have been very unwise; but was Mr. Mahon justified in taking upon himself to correct others in authority ? Was it de corous conduct in him (bearing the King's commission) to address himself as he did to the officers of the army, in the presence of the troops, in abuse of the conduct of the Eligh Sheriff for calling them from their quarters? lam the more confident in my own opinion upon this subject, because it agrees with that held by the Irish Government. They received the written reports of the conduct of Mr. Mahon ; and, instead of then deciding that it would best tend to the honour of the King's crown that the King's Representative should espouse the cause of the Sheriff, they , culled for depositions upon oath. For what? Because the affair appeared to them, as it did, and does now, to me, to be of importance. But when the sworn depositions confirmed the written reports, it was found that the She riff had net acted wisely, and that Mr. O'Gorman Mahon ought to be supported in his conduct in that affair. I cannot consider this to be the policy to which I assented. " But the papers which I have read upon this subject, transmitted.by the Government of Ireland, inform ns that Mr. O'Gorman Mahon and Mr. Steele appeared that day in Ennis, decorated by the order of the Roman Catholic Association, in green rihands, and followed by a mob. The occasion was one on which, wisely or otherwise, the H:gh Shet iff and other Magistrates had assembled at Ennis to form a Brunswick Club, and the troops had been brought to the town to prevent a riot. Was this conduct in Mr. O'Gorman Mahon and Ale, Steele that of men in whose judgment and discretion, as Justices of the Peace, the Lord Lieutenant or the Lord Chancellor of Ireland can place any reliance? ►` you have not noticed this fact in your answer to my letter. " In respect to Mr. Steele, in addition to his conduct in Ennis and that with which I see since he has been `charged—viz., marching with a mob at his heels through the most disturbed districts of the counties of Limerick and Tipperary, from chapel to chapel, to harangue the people—be has been charged with the aet of conjuring a mot, by their allegiance to the Roman Catholic Associa tion, to remain tranquil. Is the fact true or otherwise ? If there is a doubt, inquiry ought to made either by the Lord Chancellor or the Government ; and if the case turns out to be true, I am convinced that there is no man who will say that Mr. Steele's name ought to continue in the commission of the peace, whether his conduct be attri buted to folly, insanity, or disaffection, or that the King's representative can be accused of partiality for urging the Lord Chancellor to remove him. " It never has been the practice in Ireland to confine removals from the commission of the peace. to cases in which indictable offences have been committed. The ut most danger to the peace of the country might be the con sequence of its being understood that justices of the peace were irremovable, do what acts and hold what language they may, provided only that they steer clear of an indict able offence. " I contend, then, that it cannot be deemed inconsistent with the most strictly impartial administration of the Government of Ireland, to notify to persons who have conducted themselves as Mr. O'Gorman Mahon and Mr. Steele have for the last months, that the King had no farther occasion for their services as Justices of the Peace. " In respect to Lord Concurry, I did not advert to his former history—only to his being a member of the Roman Catholic Association, and to his having attended the As sociation shortly after the Lord Lieutenant and the Lord Chancellor had honoured him with a visit. In answer, you tell me that he went there for the purpose of discou raging the system proposed of not dealing with Protestants. Ills object in going there is very little to the purpose ; but having referred to the newspaper report, I see that it expressly states that Lord Cloneurry retired from the meet ing before the discussion about dealing with Protestants came on. He made a speech, however, in the Associa tion that day, which I will not copy, as this letter is already too long, but which, to say the least of it, is worthy of an agitator and a partizan, but quite unworthy of a Nobleman who deserves the honous of receiving the Lord Lieutenant at his house—a Lotd Lieutenant and Lord Chancellor presiding over an important system of Government. T still am of opinion that, considering the conduct of the Association, the speeches which have been made there, and the doubts entertained of the legality of stsch an assem . hly (to say the least of it), the members of it are net exactly '• thD))46914 to be encouraged by the Government of I r el a nd which intepds to condupt its administration impartially. " I will not now enter farther into the discussion of the legality of the Roman Catholic Association, or whether there is not a conspiracy in Ireland. Upon the first point, I hope we shall soon have the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown in Ireland, galled for some time ago. I admit that these is but little legal proof of the existence of the conspiracy; but there is much of moral proof, which, I cannot but think, deserves the attention of Government. I, It is perfectly true .that till I hail occaaign to write you on the II th inst. respecting Mr. Mahon and Mr. Steele, I did not mention to you the King's feelings upon affairs in Ireland. I did not do so, because I was in hopes that in the progress of events the King might see reason to g 4 Linge 4" opinions l anfl because it is really very pain ful to notice spatters Atirsiels woOd be or a private nature, if they 1,,d nut a beating upon public affairs. I might have, at an earlier period, expressed the pain I felt at the attend ance of gentlemen of your household, and tries; of yrur f un ily, at the Roman Catholic Association. I could not hut feel that such attendance must expose your Govern rii.isceustruction. But I was silent ; because it is p sinful" to notice suctr th'gsge ; bot I have always felt that if these impressions upon the King's roiwi should remain --and I must say that recent transacticns have given fresh cause for them—l could not avoid to mention them to you in a p ,•iy a ;.,e communication, and to let you know the em barrasunent whlett they cer4sion. I may be blamed fir not commimicating sooner that they exiztcd; but, consi dering their continued existence, and the renewed c mse for t h cir; , shotdd be still more blamed if I did not mention them to you at n E.ver, my dear Lord Anglesea, tour's most sincerely, (S;g"e( 1 ) "WELLINGTON.!' To this letter I sent a reply, which was dated the :"!.3d of November, 1828, which was in the follow ing terms " Pl►ceniz Patk, Nov. 23, 1829. .‘ Mir DEAR DUKE or NVELLiNcrox—I have received your letter of the 19th. It is not necessary that I should reply p.) it at great length ; for after very carefully ex imining and comparing it with mine of the 11th, I find little in it ' N ,4 S , ha J se'ret l / 4 0 " - f accusations ' __4oo r -tation 0 already amply answered ' &wands the =Meta I shall reeeloe therit::-nelk"- ° land refuted„ ik s. your's most . kinterely. -.- ' " I have also attentively read-- tlitcopy of my letter of (Signed) " ANGLESEA. the 14th, and thereiS"not in iti Ifititittleat expressed, or a" To his Grace the Duke of Wellin KG• S."- ttnn, • ' ' . ea word written, to which Vdo "nokstiletly‘adhere. I will merely- observe that,` in repreienting nifignorance of your s , .-rs i a,t, If the . matter had terminated heie the Hog inteniihilgin'reiard to Ireland, reo s o ul " 4 i u -on y allude to your ,' wo h u i l s d m ne a v j e e r st h y av u e nci b u e e e s n tio t n ro a u b b ly led i - m w d i a th rig t h h t e .to su 7 % n all , futurO policy, by a knoWledge of which I might have been as Lord Lieutenants whenever. he pleased, ' Yi n ! mainly assisted ; for,'although it is quite clear that a coun- , his otik try Must' be govern e d by ex i s ti ng l aws, yet i t may b e well ever might be the reas ons ; an d, th ere iore alth i thought to be a question of expediency to what extent they I would have been disappointed - that tbestVd are to be exercised; and here the Governor becomes re- Ireland and the circumstances in which I wasli i i sponsible; and I hav e no t been at all desirousof shri n ki ng did not meet with a c l oser i nvest i ga ti o n. Is libe from the respon s ibility. h ave fe l t i t my duty to have been silent 094" . t'r "To all topi c s, th en , th a t are t reate d o f i n your first matter. But as all thi s was f o ll owe d by a-stfulie letter, and which are re p ea t e d i n t h at o f t h e 19th, it reproof, than w as , p er h aps, ever givento.a4,7t would be superfluous t o re ply.o'r officer, I thought it ri g ht t o bring the_ vv 1 4 031- to " I now proceed to the new matter _contained in your before this House, as far as I had the Opportuna, last letter, do so. I received this letter, dated the 10th " You say, that lam mistaken, if I suppose that I am the first Lord Lieutenant wh o h as governe d I re l an d w i t h aay, 1829, from the Hom e S ecre t ar y : 029. an impartial hand. (Copy) " Whitehall, Jan. 109 1 - q "I really suppose no such thing ; and lam sure there is "My Loan-It is my duty to acquaint your Ex-- 1414 .: 00 . not any expression in my letter that will bear that con- that his Majesty's Government have taken into thei t ,4 o .. struction. sideration a letter which has been published in the'P it i, "In truth, I need only go back to the last Administra- papers, purporting to have been addressed by yotir F'Y' . of of Ireland--to the Government of the Marquis Wellesl e y_ lency to the Rev. Dr. Curtis, of the aathenticlir to discover that ' mine is not a novel mode of governing.' which there can be no question. It appears to 1 3 4 1 . , r p r . " I observe in every p u bli c ac t o f . L or d W e ll es l ey, not jesty's Government, that in a dd ress i ng ti n t letter ' t o int merely the intention, but the fulfilment of that principle Curtis, your Excellency acted in a manner inc °l3 d, I g in of governing.' w ith y our d u t y as hi s M a j esty ' s R epresentat i ve in i re , .„„ t e "In answer to what you o b serve regar di ng t h e con d uct and th e y h ave a d v i se d hi s M a j esty to s i gn if y hi s Pte 'rd, of the Irish Government, upon the affair of Mr. O'Gorman to your Excellency, that you should return' to OE the Mahon, at Ennis, I can only say, that it seems to me to placing the Government of Ireland for the present w ' have been entirely consistent. hands of Lords Justices. ' Ill'" " The report of his conduct first reached it through the " I enclose his Majesty's warrant, authorising l ot , ordinary channels of communication. It was thought of cellency to constitute the Lord Primate, the Lo to t o sufficient consequence to require a deposition upon oath. cellor, and the Commander of the Troops of Irelanu ;or This was furnished. It was deliberately considered ; a n d be his Majesty's Justices in your Excellency's shiel d , in concurrence with the opinion of the Lord Chancellor, until his Majesty's further pleasure be signified; an d t h s t I did not think fit to take any measure upon it. The to convey to your Excellency his Majesty's commatid,bso propriety of this decision is matter of opinion ; I retain their appointment may take place accordingly. I mine. the h onour t o be, with great truth and r' rd, - my Lo ra. _ _. " That the mere circumstance of Mr. Mahon and Mr. Steele riling about the country in green ribands is to be considered sufficient to justify their dismissal from the Magistracy, I cannot admit. Have they appeared upon the seat of justice with these party colours? No. When they do, the Chancellor will know how to deal with them. "In the case I quoted of Mr. Johnston, who, deco rated with an orange riband, actually harangued a mob (and that immediately after the passing of the Act, now extinct, in which party badges were forbidden), the Chan cellor Manners did not feel himself justified in taking any step. " In regard to Mr. Steele, there is no doubt that he had been attending various chapels, and haranguing the congregations. I have directed a particular inquiry to he made, for the purpose of obtaining authentic information as to ithe expressions to which you allude; and the at tention of the Law Officers will be called to the subject, when I shall consider and confer, as I did in the case of Mr. Mahon, and inform you of the result of my decision. " I have little to add to what I have already said con cerning Lord Cloncurry. I believe him to be a loyal sub ject, a good man, and an exemplary magistrate ; and I cannot consent to abandon the exercise of my own disere tion, in selecting those with whom I may deem it expe dient and prudent to hold au intercourse. But even if I were mistaken in the character of my Lord Cloncurry, and that he is not what I suppose him to be, I am sure I shall not be thought arrogant in expressing a conviction that there is something in my own character, and in my well known devoted and affectionate attachment to the King, which ought to shield me from the imputation of having selected and encouraged as acquaintance those who are ill affected to his Majesty's person and Government. " I have, in fact, been most anxious to imitate, so far as my humble faculties would permit, the example of his Majesty himself during his visit to Ireland; and have scrupulously attended to the King's benign and paternal admonition, when his Majesty quitted this kingdom —to inculcate good fellowship and cordiality amongst all claws, and to promote conciliation. " Your observation upon the circumstance of my son, and of some of the Officers of my Staff, visiting the Ca tholic Association, has hurt and surprised me. " A short time after mf arrival three or four of them strayed into their debating-roam from curiosity. They were unexpected, and they imagined they were unobserved, They were, however, recognised. 'The occurrence was mischievously commented upon. I admonished them not to repeat their visit, and to avoid all clubs or meetings of a political character, and it cost them nothing to obey the injunction. Yet this is remarked upon as a stain upon me, as if I had sanctioned the measure, ..egaro, (Signed) ROBERT PEr.. l ' . " To his Excellency the Lord Lieutenant, K. G., & To this I replied by the follo w i ng l e tter, M et` Jan. 14, 1829 : (Copy) " Pheanix-park, Jan. 14, 18 29 ' . .., " Sta—l have received your letter of the 10th JanttP l ' notifying to me, that his Majesty's Government had Pi t : into their consideration, a letter which had been publish. in the newspapers, purporting to have been addreossa n b l me to the Rev. Dr. Curtis ; that it appeared to his I ", ° ;i _ ventruent, that in writing that letter to Dr. Curtis, l ai ' " *. acted in a manner inconsistent with my duty as his I jesty's Representative in Ireland ; and that they bad s vised his Majesty to signify his pleasure to me, that I s hould return to England, placing the Government of Ireland, o r the present, in the hand. of Lords Justices, and end , " to me his Majesty's warrants, authorising me to constitute the Lord Primate, the Lord Chancellor, and the Ctr ry n n , ‘ der of the Troops, to be his Majesty's Justices in 111, ence, or until his Majesty's fu r th er p l easure b e s ignifie d' +, I n consequence of the Duke of Wellington's letter "' me of the 28th December, informing me that he Wag se . a re v "), Bible that a co' resp on d ence w hi c h h a d ta k en p l ace bet his Grace and me had l e f t us i n a re l at i on toward.' e tic other which ought not to exist between the Lord Li eu ; tenant and the King's Mi n i s t er , an d t h at hi s co llesq o concurred in that opini on ; an d t h at h av i ng taker' AP, Majesty's pleasure up on th e su bj ect , hi s Majesty had sired his Grace to Inform me, that he intended to rel nee front the Gov ernmen t o f I re l an d ; I informed l id Grace, by my letter on the Nth of December, that I vn i hold myself in rea di ness t o o b ey hi s M a j esty ' s coo n's° the moment I should receive them. for " It is therefore only necessary f or me now to sts ,„ t the informaticn of his Majesty's Government, that I ho o f given the necessary di rec ti ons f or t h e appo i ntm ent' ah Lords Justices in obedience to his Majesty's comma and that I shall forthwith repair to England. " I have the honour to be, with truth and regard, " Sir, your most obedient and faithful serva*tr (Signed) " ANGLES' " To the Right Hon. Robert Peel." r Now, my Lords, it is necessary to state to .7 -11 Lordships what may be proved on oath at P lir Lordships' bar. I allude to th e op i n i on in Irela nd on these matters when my recal was announced. So anxious indeed was I to make th a t l e tter pur er private and confidential, that I even carried it to ruY that,Seet c l ar ‘ y vr t o o be dential, so that it m i g h t b e cons id ere d as the lette r wrote of a private individ ua l, I d 'l v !o ral - punier por franked i t t h ; e a N ri v d o n n o i s t s p a r t i i v s a fi t e e d e a v n e d n w o tfih, " The letter I wrote to Mr. Lamb upon the occasion would show sufficiently that I di ,, approved of it ; although I certainly did not attach that importance to it you appear to think , it deser red. " I observe that you consider our late painful corres pondence as private; yet the subjects are chiefly of a public cha actor. " You certainly have the power of considering it so, or not; but I must reserve to myself the same liberty, if it should hereafter become necessary for my justification ; and I sincerely believe that I can justify every aot--Day, I will even go farther, and express uty conviction, that if the King had the same opportunity that I have of wit nessing the present state of the country, his Majesty would be a ttisfied that a sound and prudent policy had been exer cised. Believe me, my dear Duke of Si ellington, " Very sincerely your's, (Signed) " ANGLESEA. " To his Grace the Duke of Wellington, K. G., &c." To this, my Lords, I should add one thing with respect to the Lord Cloncurry, which probably was not known to the Noble Duke now at the head of his Majesty's Administration ; and that is, that when the King was in Ireland, Lord Cloncurry was in con stant attendance on his Majesty, and sat at his table. —(Hear, hear.) —The fact was, my Lords, that Lord Cloncurry thought himself very ill-used in the time of his late Majesty, having been confined twice on two charges, of which no proof could be adduced, and he had been on both occasions discharged with out being brought to trial. In consequence of this, he had determined, when the King visited Ireland, not to approach his Majesty; and the King, on hearing this, caused Lord Cloncurry to be sent for. His Lordship then came, and was very well received by his Majesty, and attended upon him, and sat at his table.--(Hear, hear.)--Then, one word as to my unfortunate son and some of my Staff visiting the Catholic Aseociation. I may state, that it was no more than some of the Staff of my illustrious pre decessor had done. The truth is, my Lords, that the Catholic Association was considered in Dublin as a lion, and the strangers went to visit it, as they went to the Corn-Exchange, or to Exeter 'Change, to see the wild beasts. Now, when I receiv e d the first letter from the Noble Duke, the impression on my mind decidedly was that I would be recalled, and the second confirmed me in that opinion ; and yet I thought, and others agreed with me in that no tion, that probably the whole of the circumstances might have been reconsidered, and we certainly did hope that upon that recommendation the • state of affairs in Ireland, and all the eircumstaaces, would have been more duly appreciated, and that the con duct of the Irish Administration would be found not to deserve so much censure as it had been ima gined to deserve. On that head I was undeceived Lieutenant Tt and le the King's was i ng a ' s s by the letter from the Noble Duke of the 28th of December, from which I was very sensible that the relation between me a s a trot Lordlonge r exist. (Gory.) o London, December, 2S, 1828. Ministersfollows :could My DEAR Loan AN O LESEA—I have been very sen sible, since I received your last letter, that the correspon dence which that letter terminated had left is in a rehl tion towards each other whi.eh ought not to exist between the Lord Lieutenant and the King's Minister ; and could not oontinue to exist without great inconvenience and in jury to the King's service. 1 refrained from acting upon this feeling till I should be able to consult with my col /entree, and I took the earliest opportunity, which the return to town of th9se who were absent aliprded, to ob tain their opinioU, which concurred with my own, Under these circumstances, having taken the King's pleasure upon the subject, his Majesty has desired me to inform you, that he intends to relieve you from tke Government of Ireland. I will shortly notify the arrangements which will become necessary itt consequence. Believe me ever your's must sincerely, (£jgileti) WaLINGTON. " His Excellency the Marquis of Anglesea, K.G." In answer I wrote this letter of date the 30th December, to the Noble Duke at the head of the Administration (Copy ' ) " Plicenix Park, 30th Dec., 182 g. My DEAR PUIC.F. OF WELLINGTON—I have received your letter of the 28th, iuforming me of the King's inten tion to relieve ine from the Government of Ireland. " I will hold myself in readiness to obey his Majesty's __, ate not as the c:. tions of the Lord Lieutenant. I received the letter, informing me that I was to be relieved from the du ties of the Government, on the 30th of December' The report that I was recalled soon became Frew( lent, and•at ten o'clock in the morning the Chic' Secretary (Lord Levison Gower) and Mr. Attor ney-General Joy came to the Phcenix Park, along with others, iu order to ascertain the fact. Th e y declared that an extraordinary d egree of excitefaebj!t ,' prevailed amongst all cla s s es i n consequ ence ot . event; and at three o'clock oth er i n fluentia l p i : sons, who came from Dubli n f or th e sa me P ur P .... b g repeated the report of the agitated state of the PI mind, and implored me either to contradict the r port of the recal if I could, or at l ea st:to apply a ,_ °°l oo ,, remedy to that alarming agitation which was.vw''' in the movements of the people of Dublin. TO C° lr tradict the report was impossible, for on the table he' fore me lay the letter of my recall• from the Goeeff, ment of Ireland, and it was equally impsssible, C O.. ceived, to apply a remedy for the agitation, becsul I could not so far compromise the situation which held as to communicate with the Agitators upPll that subject to which the agitation was to be at;t l- buted. On the return to Dubli n , of those person° who had visited me in the course of the day, they saw the leading Members of the Association, Who were anxious to ascertain the truth of the repO.r; and they also made strong representations upon tn subject of the alarming feverish distress and excite" , ment which prevailed among the people, a nd they stated, that as the Association was to meet on the next day, it was much to be feared they would O a f: some very violent resolutions. Arid here 1 wot 1 1! pause, and beg the Noble Lords who hear me 1 0 1 to allow themselves to believe for an instant, .that. attributed this fever, and this alarm, and Oda ea' citement upon the report of my recall, to any )V sonal love which the Catholic people of Ireland to me or to my administration of the Governmen t ' No such thing; I never for an instant *WV buted their conduct to any such cause. I attri• buted it to the natural source—that source whie, h . must have been obvious to every man. They' fe lt' that the question of Catholic emancipation must b° disposed of. They felt a conviction that the 0 1 °' ment was at last come when the Ministry had c ome to a determination, not to entertain that question, Gov ern-) They imagined that my dismissal from the silent was connected with that resolution, and ;; scas the cause in which they felt so deep an that was despaired of at the time when this agitn: tion prevailed, was pressed on all hands to : e something, however, to allay this irritation, 04 at length flashed across my mind that sont.e sc might be made of that disasttons letter to which I " much allusion has been made, It occurred to ts„ that some rod ralght.arise from the recommen ugl ; tior.s contented in that letter being made public a. that moment, and I said to those who applied tat; Go to Dr. Curtis, and if you think, upon t',," • perusal of that letter that any good use can be We' of it, you are tit liberty to, use IV' The letter in ccosequence of a permission thus obtained, pu,h' lished the next morning, and the effect of ' t9 appearance was almost magical. It was almos t impossible to conceive that such consequenc e° could have resulted from making use of sac • • a document, but it prodnced instantaneous trail' bore . and from the manner in which its sew; timents ware taken up by the Association , ' • am confident it tended much to prevent Or disturbance of the public tranquillity. I do IVY mean to say, my Lords, that there ever was any fe tiC of in , urrection. That I never fearen4 but Ido i." . Y that there trap at that moment such a feeling of di'!* concept and irritation in the minds of the people , s a would have rendered it exceedingly difficult to pre" serve the public peace, and a due respect for the o °' vernment. I now wish to call your Lordship' a t ; tention to the words of the letter itself. I wish VI Lordships to consider it in the spirit and in the t ee ; ings with which it was written, and I can assort your Lordships at the very outset, that the IT): and the feelings were on my part perfectly That letter gave advice to the C a tholics,. which Fe• •