The Sun. — London, England, 1858-02-16 00:00:00

TRI SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 16, IgmB, what principle the claims should be met. It was a question of great extent, delicacy, and difficulty, INDIA. In answer to Mr. Peers, Mr. V. SMITH said no such report had been re ferred to, nor did he think it likely such would be made. Vnder the circumstances of the state of India it was necessary that Indian officers should be recalled who were on furlough. Some had been appointed to office by the Governor-General. They had been paid their passage money, and the time they had been on fur lough would be counted as service. WEIGHTS AND MEASURES. Mr. CHILD asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether it was the intention of the Government this session to introduce any bill to amend the laws relating to weights and measures The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he could not undertake to produce any measure on the sub ject this session. BARRACK ACCOMMODATION. Viscount INGESTRE asked the Under Secretary for War when it was the intention of Government to proceed with the designs for infantry and cavalry bar 'acka selected by the official Committee on Barrack A cco mmodation for the Army in the years 1855 and 1856, according to the pledge given to the successful candidates Sir J. RAMSDEN said no new barracks had been commenced since the period referred to. When the army estimates came before the house he should ask for sum of money for the erection of a small cavalry barracks at Nottinghatn, and if it were granted they would be erected under the direction of the gentleman who gained the first prize for designs for cavalry bar racks. THE PRINCE ALBERT TROOP SHIP. Mr. HENLEY asked the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, whether any certificate (under the Merchant Shipping Act, 1854), had been granted by the Board of Trade for the Prince Albert, 2,500 tons, iron steamship, that sailed with troops for India in the autumn of last year I Mr. LO WE said that the Prince Albert was taken up by the East India Company for th e conveyance of troops to India, having been approved of by the surveyor to the company. She was afterwards surveyed by the surveyor to the Board of Trade, who reported that the vessel did not comply with certain requirements under the Merchant Shipping Act, but he did not report against the vessel, believing her to be agood and trust worthy ship. Under these considerations the Board of Trade refused to grant a certificate, but ander the emergency of the case they opposed no objections to the vessel's sailing, and she sailed without the certificate. Mr. HENLEY gave notice that he should put a question to-morrow to the chairman of the Board o' Directors relative to the contract entered into with the owner of the vessel. INDIA BILL.—ADJOURNED DEBATE. The adjourned debate was resumed by Mr. ROEBUCK, who said that a more important subject than the present had never occupied the atten tion of Parliament. The noble lord had stated on the fired evening of the debate that the subjects of the Queen in India, for whom that House was about to legislate, amounted to 150,000,000, but he would have been more accurate and nearer to the truth if he had said that the number of persons in India under British sway amounted to very nearly 200,000,000, and that being the case he thought that he was justified in saying that a more im portant question than the present had never been the subject of consideration of that house. With respect to the mode in which that dominion had been acquired, it was not his intention to enter into that question, but he might, perhaps, be allowed to say that he would chal lenge opposition, that in acquiring that dominion Eng land had broken through almost every rule of morality. She had, it was true, exhibited great valour and great intelligence, but not great virtue, and when an hon. gentleman on the last night of the debate spoke of the acquisition of that rule as forming one of the brightest pages in the annals of the history of England he could only ask him if he had formed a picture to himself of that which really constituted a bright page in the annals of the history of a country. If the hon. gentleman meant that British troops in India had shown great valour, that their generals had shown great ability, and that English. men had shown in all cases wonderful intelligence in attaining their ends, then he thought that the right hon. gentleman was right in calling the history of the con nexion of England and India a bright page in British annals. But if he meant to say that England had during that period displayed a regard for the great principles of morality, that she had been in all cases faithful to her engagements, that she had shown herself incapable of receding from her word, then he thought that the hon. gentleman was stating that which history would not support. HeJor his own part could not consi der tat a bright page in the annals of England, although in it she displayed great valour and intelligence, without any accompaniment of virtue. He believed, however, that British rule, obtained even as it had been, might be turned to great benefit for the people of Lithe. If he thought that British dominion in India was to be for the future what it had been during the past, that the people of India would not obtain any more advantage from the improuA civilisation and the greater morality of the people of England than they had hitherto done, then he should consider that we should be justified in departing from the shores of India, and leaving the Indians to govern themselves. He believed, however, that as the morality and intelligence of the people of England was made to bear upon the English Government in India, the natives of India would obtain a better system of government than they had ever yet receiver!. It ap• peared to him, from a careful perusal of their history that the people of India were incapable of governing themselves, and that by bringing to bear upon them greater intelligence and better morality than they themselves possessed great benefits wuuld be extended to them. Such had not been the case hitherto, but he believed that the first step towards establishing such a state of things was the bi:l of the noble lord. (Hear.) The present question to be determined was two fold— fire, what was the government best fitted for India, and secondly, whether the present was the right time to establish it. That was a distinction which had been made throughout the debate,and, although those gentlemen who opposed the bill by pressing upon the latter ap peared to give up the former part of the argument, he thought that upon as occasion like the present, when i was most desirable to obtain the expression of the feel ings and of the intelligence of the people of England, it became the members of that house to go through the whole of the argument. (Hear.) Now, preparatory to •the argument which he intended to adduce he wished to make one or two observations upon the state of India at present. India, it was to be remembered, was not a colony, but a conquest. (Hear.) A colony he conceived to be a body of men sent out from a mother country, who, settling in some distant place, to )k with them there the manners, the language, and the institutions of the mother country. And, with regard to the British colonies, the best mode of governing them was to allow them to govern themselves. Nearly a quarter of a cen tury, he was sorry to say, had elapsed since he had first denounced interference in the affairs of our colonise, and he recollected that his suggestions were received with strong indignation, and that very principle which at present was the main principle upon which the colonies of England were governed—namely to allow them to govern themselves—was received with a howl of disap - probation. India, however, as he bad said, was not a colony, but a conquest, and she could not be treated on similar principles. We had to deal in that country with a people who were numerous and partially civilised, and who were quite unable to govern themselves, and there fore it behoved them, if they retained dominion in India to give to that people a government capable of maintain ing order, and one which would conduce to their welfare and happiness. It was said by some that we bad from incapacity in ourselves been compelled to allow the colonies to govern themselves, and therefore that it was clear that we were unfit to govern India. But the two cases were not parallel, India being, as he had said before, a conquest and not a colony ; and for his own part be believed that a Government properly established in India could govern India far better than any which the people of India could establish for themselves. As regarded the present state of things in India the history of that state of things was very remarkable. When George HI. came to the throne he was, as he thought, out of his mind, and there was one feeling which pursued him through life, and which he carried out with all the cunning of insanity. Ilebelieved himself to be in danger of I c r i i ) ng treated like certain of the Merovingian kings, acnonventeexpected to b e s o me day shaved and sent to a And he entertained on that account eelings of great alarm to the great body of the aristocracy of the c h o e u p ot u ry n , ne a d nd w th it e h great object of his life, and one which undeviating pertinacity, was to break down the po wer of and the climax the egreat families of the kingdom, arrived hen Mr. F ox himself, repre senting the aristocratic bod y, bro ug ht i n hi s I n di a Bill. That Indian Bill was , regarded th e t h en know l e d ge if the people of England, a who w 'v e is r e e measure. But the King -that as insane Persuaded the people— as the Sovereign —( laughter ) danger in Mr. Fox's bill, because there h wa s e gorveaert India was to be conferred on the British p ow er A cry was raised against that measure. It had been own fortune since he had been an observer of e p n e hi v e politics to hear a cry raised about as unwise as that to he was refetr:ng, and also - to see that cry g o " down. Mr. For, however, did not live to sea the peopl of England come to their senses as we had done. This was the first symptom of returning sanity on their part in ward to India. Mr. Pitt, taking advantage of the .. ar cry is England, p a l me d upon th e p eop l e th roug h th e r haiment a great " stoma. ' He told the directors that be was exceedingly anxious to maintain their p oser, and a be brought in a t e ll w hi c h rece i ved the p ot) the then representativ es o f t h e East Compa nylndiralonof They showed their wisdom by so d o i ne , f or they thereb y ereb" lost their whole power over India! That w as the conse quence of having " old Indians" to govern India. ai Fitt cajoled them and instituted the Board of Control.. And what had been the result ? The Board of Control from that time to this had been the irresponsible gover nors of India. " A board," said Jeremy Bentham, "is a screen !" And so the Board of Control had proved. The Chancellor of the Exchequer last Friday evening explained to them with a de al of humour, which coming from him told — ( lau g ht ,r) that the Cou rt of Directors, a s compared with the Board of Control , real were L e y authorit y powerless. And it was quite clear that the rested with the President of that Board, ta a k n e d fr t o h m at the only use of the Court of Director President of the Board oil Control all the T t h r e ou d b i l r e e o e f to h r i s s -office, and to leave him all the power. difficult were used ae a screen for him whenever anyy occurred. The burden was thrown upon the shoulders of the Court of Directors, who in turn threw it back as a shuttlecock to the Board of Control ; while the public, I with eyes open and mouths agape, stood bewildered, net knowing whom. to blame. That was a true picture of the present Home Government for India. Should we allow this state of things to continue It was neces sary to draw a distinction. They bad two things to do in the arrangement of the Government for India. First, they had to arrange the machinery which should bring to bear upon the actual governors of India the opinion of the Parliament and people of England, and their responsibility to that opinion. This was what was called the Home Government. They had also to constitute the Government of India which should carry out their plans when they had been duly matured in England. 1 For the first operation they did not require any know -I•3ge of the people of India: All that was requisite was a general knowledge of, the principles of human nature. They wanted to bring to bear on their official 4 in India a responsibility towards the people of England 3 and if they accomplished that they would do sufficient for the good government of India as far as the Home Government was concerned. By the double government, however, under which it was hardly possible to know who was answerable for any act performed by the Home Government of India, they had done their utmost to destroy all responsibility and all efficiency in that Government. They were bound, then, to get rid of such a state of things as soon as possible. The question next arose, ought they to go back to the East India Com pany True, that Company were very much in the habit of praising themselves, and when nobody else would praise one it was as well to praise oneself. (A laugh.) But, looking to the career of that body until the Parliament of England interfered to restrain it, was ever a worse or more rapacious Government than that of the East India Company known in the history of the world I Hon. gentlemen might refer on this matter to the pages of a great defender of the Company —Lord Macaulay, in whose " Life of Clive" they would find that the whole object of their Government was money ! —money to the directorsin the shape of dividend,money to their servants in the shape of large fortunes ; and that they had crushed and trampled upon the unhappy people of Hindostan as if they had been dirt beneath their feet, except that they were dirt out of which they could dig gold. Therefore, judging them from their past history, the Court of Directors were not fit persons to be trusted with the future government of India. But the Directors represented the Court of Proprietors. On what principle were they elected! The Court of Proprie tors consisted of persons who possessed Ea.t India stock and in a certain proportion to the amount of stock which they individually held was the number of their votes. He might appeal to the House of Commons and ask, what would they think of such a government for themselves I They took a fraction olthe people of England and erected a sort of aristocracy among them, giving a man a double vote because he had a double number of shares ! If the noble lord at the head of the Government, in his pro mised measure of Parliamentary Reform, were to propose anything of that kind for the people of England, he would soon be swept from place, and every one of his supporters with him. Then, what was good for England in this matter was good for India; and the very principle which rendered the Court of Directors a totally unfit body to govern England rendered them equally unfit to governlndia. Then came the bill of the noble lord, which contained among its provisions one of infinite import ance. It did away with the government of India as at present constituted, putting in its place a Secretary of State. The great mistake of the measure was the Council of Eight, which it proposed. The very principle which made the present government mischievous—viz,, divided responsibility, told against this council. (Hear.) More. over, the noble lord said that the council would be com posed of " Old Indians." That circumstance greatly strengthened his objection to it, because in England at the present moment were to be found men far more capable of governing India than any!' old Indian" what ever. (No.) No I He wanted to know, then, to whom the Company had intrusted the concoction of their own petition. Was there not among them one of the moat remarkable minds of the present day I (Hear, hear.) Did he not lead his valuable aid in concocting that peti tion, which, marked though it was by many fallacies, still exhibited great mental power I The author of that document was, he believed, far more capable of govern. ing 'lndia than any " Old Indian." Therefore, as far as the concentration of responsibility upon a Secretary of State went, he entirely agreed with the noble lord ; and he entreated him to ,consider whether great mischief might not arise from the divided responsibility that must flow from the creation of this council. He knew the councillors would not vote. Still they would share the responsibility. He would be bound to say that if he lived long enough to see a Secretary of State for India ap pointed he would hear him declare at the table of that house that he had done his best, and that he was quite of the same opinion as the council. The council would not have seats in that house—it would not be under their control. The Secretary of State might be, but it would be too late ; he would exculpate himself by the opinion of his council, and the house would be bound to believe that being composed of "Old Indians" they knew some thing of India. That was a very dangerous principle— dangerous both as regarded the government of India and as regarded the people of England. And were they to be frightened by the bugbear of patronage I Re was ashamed to think such an argument could be used on such a subject. Could it be supposed that the House of Commons would be diverted from its duty—thatit would be turned against the people of England by the appoint ment of a few cadets' Was it not marvellous that sane men, grown men, men with beards, should seriously retail the things which the house had heard last Friday! The civil appointments were to be ;distributed by corn , petitive examination; and the only patronage to be retained would be the appointment of the cadets. Could not the bill provide for these things 1 Why should they not apply the same principle to the selection of military cadets al to the selection of dvil servants ? If publican]. petition were good for the writers, who were the real go vernors of India, was it not good also for the cadets, who were the soldiers and defenders of that country? Suppose that for 500 cadetships there were 1,000 or 2,000 candi dates, would not the examiners selectthose whowere most fit to go out to India ; and would not this most effec. , tunny do away with all patronage ? The same result I would not be accomplished by resting the patronage in these eight members of the Council ; on the contrary, it would make them great men in their station, and it there were any truth in the theory, that this patronage would corrupt the House of Commons, these eight gentlemen ought to govern England. He would never believe that any such thing would occur ; but he was decidedly of opinion that the best way to deal with this patronage was to throw it open to publio competition. (Hear.) Ti,a boA Home Government for India would be a Secre tary of State, who should ct,ou,..e his own advisers, and in whom all responsibility should centre. Such a Secre tary of State would be selected by the Prime Minister, who was practically chosen by that house, which was elected by the people ; therefore, in the last resort the Secretary of State for India would be appointed by the people of this country. Now, if there was any virtue in representative government, that was just the thing for which it was useful ; not that the people should govern themselves, but that they should choose their governors —not that they should do the dutiei of the office of Prime Minister, but that they should choose a man who could do that duty, and should force him to do it. Such a man would be responsible to that house, sod would in the most effective manner bring to bear upon the Go vernment of India the feelings and wishes of the people of England. (Hear.) The second ground upon which the hon, gentleman had.opposed this bill was that it might be a good measure, bat that this was not the proper time for it.• That was the procrastinating argu ment. The boo. member for Guildford (Mr. Mangles) said there had been a great mutiny in India which was not yet put down, and therefore no change ought to be made. Why, that was the very reason for the change. The present state of things in India demanded an efficient Government, and therefore if the propo ed scheme of government would be better than the existing one, let it be at once adopted. But it was said that the Com pany's Government in India had always favoured the Hindoos ; that the Hindoos had faith in the Company, and that the very parties who sought for a change of government were desirous of proselytizing and Chris• tianising India. (Hear.) He had been quite startled to hear the statement that the people of Hindostan had confidence in the Government of the Company, because the Company had always opposed the extension of privi leges to the Hindoos, or the making them sharers in their own government. Everything which had been granted to the Hindoos had been granted in consequence of Parliamentary power, and every change for the better which had been made in their government had been the result of Parliamentary interposition. The East India Company strove to maintain their monopoly of trade, and did their utmost to deprive the Hindoo and the half-caste of any share in the government. He maintained that the crisis at which affairs in India Lai arrived did not inter fere with their calmness or judgment. A calmer house than that could net be found. There was no excitement; there was no cry. The East India Company had pre sented a petition ; it had received the support of some hon. members, and ha-1 been gravely debated. They were perfectly calm and collected about the matter; why, then, should they not decide upon it at once ? He begged and entreated hon. members not to shrink from their duty, not to be frightened by any cry of this sort, not to allow the foot of England to be placed upon - the neck of India to crush her down like a despot's heel, when they had it in their power to spread peace, to spread good government, to spread happiness from the Himalayas to Cape Comorin. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DUFF said the old system, as modified by repeated parliamEatary influence, and the public opinion of this country, was not only most beneficial in action but was becoming daily more and more benificent in its acts. He, however, gave a qualified approval of the bill . He had no wish to oppress India, but if they thought such a measure as this was requ i re d b y th e n ecessity of the time they ought to carry it out with an iron hand, Mr. WHITESIDE agreed that this was one of the most important discussions which had ever taken place in the British House of Commons. A hurricane of destruction had swept over Hindostan, and it was natural that the First Minister should have called upon Parliament to arrest the hurricane and strengthen the hands of the Indian Government. He had read the noble lord's speech twice over, but although he could understand the principle of the bill, he could not understand the principle of the exposition. (A. laugh.) He could have expected that the noble lord would have attempted to show that the East India Company had been indolent, and had thwarted the Go vernment in their endeavours to put down the mutiny The noble lord, indeed, spoke kindly of a company whom he intended to destroy—(a laugb)—but his speect, had not rison to the heignhotbole or f the occasion. and theoccasioc. members ilecited o a f his Government in fav o u r f orme r assertion of the of making the government of t h e East H o w was it they were not at that time aware of the India great, strong, and respected. want of responsibility, of the difficulties of governing India, and did they then succeed because they were right, or because they were wrong ! He entered into a laboured defence of the conduct of the Court of Direc tors, who had always shown great intelligence, industry, and knowledge of their business, and of the people of India. He cited the opinions of Mr. Mill, Lord Macau lay, and others, to show that the directors proved themselves more competent to manage the affairs of India than the Board of Control, and that the system of double government was more free from party influences and better fitted for the circumstances than any other. Could the directors be charged with want of promptitude or skill in their arrangements during the late crisis in any one particular ? If they were to discard the com pany, what would they get 1 He read a multitude of quotations from former debates to show that any substi- tute would be truckling to the Government of the day, its mere tool and dependents. The Duke of Wellington had borne testimony to the purity and excellence of the government of the company. He denied that the change in our army administration during the Crimean war had any analogy to the immense changes now proposed in the government of a great empire, yet this was the only argument which the noble lord could find for introducing his proposition at such a time. Was a great government to be overthrown by such an analogy I He charged upon the home Government the initiative of all the measures which had brought so many calamities on India, and it was to shift the blame from those who deserved it ____ that the present bill was introduced. He replied at length to the speech of the Chancellor of the Exehequer, disproving his statements as to the comparatively small importance of India to the empire, and as to the con duct of the men who first established our rule in that country. The great argument in favour of the proposed bill was, that it would bring to bear upon Indian mat ters the influence of public opinion through Parliamen. tary discussion. The very thing that Mr. Mill .depre• cated. There was no public opinion in India, and he denied that the people of England could have any influence in operating upon the legislature so as to make its action beneficial in the administration of the affairs of India. (Hear.) The whole argument upon this point rested upon a perfect fallacy. The same argument bad been employed with respect to the management of the affairs of our colonies. But what had been the result ? There was once a Minister of England who was a man of eloquence, who was surrounded by able Mini sters, by scholars and by wits—he was high in the con fidence of his Sovereign, was popular in the country, and supported by immense majorities in both houses of the legislature. He adopted a policy which he believed to be in accordance with the opinions of the people of England, and he drenched the American soil with blood, and lost a magnificent country to his king. (Cheers.) What did they see now ? A proud republic stand on the ruins of an empire of which it was the conqueror. What had become of the Minister who brought about these results I He was classed among the men who, made giddy by ambition, mistook popular applause for the safe and guiding rules of policy in the administration of the affairs of a great country. (Cheers.) But it was said that the people of England, in fact, appointed the Ministers of the• Crown. Did they I What, all of them I They made, perhaps, the first Minister of the Crown, but what of the rest ? He appealed to the hearts and consciences of those who heard him whether the arguments or statements of the Chancellor of the Exchequer on this point were founded on fact ? Were appointments even under the wholesome in fluence ,and operation of a free House of Commons in a free country always those they could applaud? Were they always made in deference to the moral feelings, the enlightened opinion, the utility of the public service, the honour oft he Crown, or the advantage of the State? (Loud and repeated cheers.) Was the House of Com• mons satisfied in dealing with this question as men of business and common sense that it woul I be a safe thing to pass this bill 1 This government had lasted a good time, no doubt it had. The noble lord at the head of the Government said that the change might be easily made, that we might destroy the Government gen'ly and at once without the least effort. He (Mr. White side) agreed with him there. It was a law of the Almighty that the work of construction should be diffie silt and slow, but that the work of destruction was eaty. The skill of the architect and the labour of au age might erect the edifice, the labourer with his rude pick axe could easily destroy its beauty. This building has stood for a long time. Let them strengthen its founda tions, enlarge its basis, improve if they could the inhabi tants of the building ; but he implored the house, while yet there was time, to stay their hand, and not upon the arguments they had heard overthrow the useful and venerable structure. (Loud and repeated cheering followed the close of the address of the hon. and learned member.) Mr. LOWE said he thought that even those mem bers who were most enthusiastic in their cheers of the ion. and learned member's speech mast allow that it rather rested upon authority than argument ; and as he (Mr. Lowe) did not come down from the library armed with evidence he could not say how far the arguments stated by the honourable and learned gentleman bore upon the subject. Now, his (Mr. Lowe's) memory very greatly deceived him if the passage from Mill, quoted by the hon. and learned gentleman, was not addressed to the government of the Company subsequent to 1785. There was another authority which he (Mr. Lowe) would venture to quote. It was one which he was sere the hon. and learned gentleman would have no objection to. When the East India Bill came before the house before, Mr. Phinn moved—" That the Indian empire might be governed by her Majesty, her heirs and successors." That motion was negatived ; and amongst the minority was the hon. and learned member for Enniskillen. (Laughter.) The aE. , sunption which ran through the hon. and learned gentleman's speech and that of the hon. member for Huntingdons(Mr. T. Baring) was evidently this—that the house was called upon to take a very great and momentous step, that they were about to throw out of gear our Indian policy just to see if they could put it in gear again. The way that India was managed was this : when the President of the Board of Control was of opinion that any matter required 1 to be a matter of secrecy he was allowed to frame a despatch which he sent to the Secret Committee of the East India Company, who took a solemn oath not to communicate that de.patch, or to remonstrate against it, but were bound to send it out as they received it. Now, he (Mr. Lowe) asked what amount of control or initiative that committee could have under such circum stances t In cotesquence of this state of things, he (Mr. Lowe) could not for his own part look upon the Court of Directors as deserving oduc., biame or entitled to great praise, not because their intentions were not good, and their efforts often most earnest, but because they had been for the last 70 years deprived of the power of acting singly in any great matters. From the manner therefore, in which business was transacted at the Eat India House, the directors exercised in the government of India no very important influence by their direct agency ; but he must add, that the indirect consequences resulting from the retention of the company were of a most serious nature, and called for immediate interfer ence. The effect f the existence of the East India Company was to produce a fearful amount of delay. They boasted that they were an independent check upon any Minister. Now, he had shown the house that they were not a check upon his decisions, although they might justly say they were a clog upon him. The government of India was carried out in their name they were obliged to receive all de spatches sent to this c )untry, and through their hands had to pass all despatches transmitted hence. All who bad grievances were forced to apply to them in order that they might apply to the Beard of Control, which had then to refer them back, so as to comply with the forms of the East India House—forms which were peculiarly unfitted for providing for such matters as naval and military establishments, and the laying in of stores, and in the carrying on of a serious war amounted to a positive evil ; for although in questions of great malni tude the President of the Board of Control could issue his order to the Governor-General, without its p as•ing through the East India Company, he could not make practical arrangements without their going through that channel. Allusion had been made to the Indian rail ways, but so far from blaming the Company for not having done snore in this respect, he (Mr. Lowe) was surprised, taking into consideration the various proceed. ings which had to be adopted, that they had ever suc ceeded in laying a sleeper. Let the house consider the stages through which a matter of that description had to pass. The East India Company, as they were aware, guaranteed a dividend, and, therefore, was obliged to control the expenditure. -Well, the Company ordered a railway ; it had first to pass before the rail way board in India, analthen the railway board in England ; from them to the East India Company, to pass through all the forms of the India House ; from thence to the permanent secretary, and then to the Parliamentary secretary ; from him back to the President of the Beard 1 of Control, who then sent it back to the East India House ; and, lastly, the East India House sent out orders for its construction. The same remarks would apply to legal reform in India. Lord Macaulay's law commission was sent out to India in 134'J, and nothing had jet been done. It was true the petition of the Company alleged that it was on the point of heir g carried into effect when the mutiny broke out—that mutiny, by the way, wan, he thought, very mach like the fire in Caleb Balderstone's larder, for it served as a most oppor tune excuse for every deficiency. He did not, however, blame the Company for these things ; but he thought that tbat house would be deeply blameable if, after these matters had been brought so prominently under its notice, it allowed a system to continue which was fraught with so much danger. Another great evil attaching to the East India Company was, that from the fact of the government bsing carried on in its name, the public supposed that it really was the Government, and the consequence was the Minister of the Crown was screened by that supposition ; and this very objection the peti tioners themselves amitted when they said that they could nut "conceive a worse form of government for India than a Minister, with a council which he is at iberty to consult or not at his pleasure, or whose advice he should be able to disregard without giving his reasons in writing, and in a manner likely to produce conviction ;" and when they admitted farther on that "any arrange ment of the council which will not be a check will be a screen." At present there was no check at all, for the Company might see the announcement of a war which they were supposed to make for the first time in the morn ing itniiicsi n u a; in : t a jar p ; e fi r h s o . erld l de n di f .n act, if he (fir. Lowe) were desi ous of used as the symbolof calling a witness to testify to the insufficiency of the pre !amennatecraysypostif:emi the, h wc e rhoi c cw o h u i 2 l t; d hgeb n oei o t call a better than the petition y identical was absolutely • • conception of a republic or a Iwnhdiicahw the ethe Queen's only possessio n as whi ch il ot identical, r e ef eo r ag n r ofa m tr hd e ge n eod t v , ande thisr n m i et exception, a cae s np o dv f io a nll monarchyot t h h e e r r e s . people of India had no thing beyond the supra- fore, as most unfortunate. India abounded in noble families, some descended from the sun, others from the moon. (Laughter.) Th o se persons possessed great pride of birth and ancestry, and by way of conciliating them and reconciling them with our govern ment, we deprived them of the honour and gratification of feeling that they were the subjects of a sovereign whose ancestors had worn the crown of these isles 500 years before the reign of the Great Mogul, making them instead the vassals of a commercial joint-stock company. He was told by a gentleman who had much exp :tierce in India that the notion they had of the Government under which they lived, was that India was a kind of farm leased by the Crown to the Company, and that the object of the latter was to squeeze as much as it could out of it, and that gentleman's opinion coincided with that of Mr. Halliday, that nothing would be more cal culated to promote the interests of India than to place its government in the hands of the Crown. The matter, however, did not stop there ; they knew something of the past history of India, and need he point to the long catalogue of differences and bickerines more or less vio lent between the servants of the company and the ser vants of the Crown. The mutiny which they were at present engaged in putting down was not the only mutiny which bad occurred there. Every one recollected Sir R. Fletcher's conduct in the time of Clive, and that he and his associates did not consider themselves guilty of treason against the English Crown, but only against a commercial company to wh o m they did not own alle giance ; and in the case of Gen. M'Dowell and Sir G. Barlow, which nearly led to the loss of the Deccan, tho troops were upon the point of declaring them selves independent of the government of Madras. One case more which illustrated the inconvenience of the present system was this ; the East India Corn- Daisy might ba at war with a power with which the Queen might bo at peace, incurring a heavy expense without involving the na.e.e of the British Crown. (Hear, hear.) at s to the question of time, whether legis lation at the moment was convenient or proper, the hon. and learned gentleman had quoted him (Mr. Lowe) against himself. On that accouni he must, however reluctantly, refer to the speech which he made in 1853 on the resolution similar to the resolution now moved by the hon. member for Huntingdon, whittle was brought forward by the noble lord the member for King's Lynn (Lord Stanley). The only observation in that speech on which the hon. gentleman could have anchored his remark was one in which he said that if the Government of India were to be continued in the Company, whose operations in arms and policy there had hitherto been successful, the governing body must be maintained respected and respectable, and he re peated the observation now as entirely applicable to the present circumstances. Of those who asked what would happen if the bill passes, he must ask what would occur if it did not pass ? The Company had been for a series of years in a state of gradual deterioration. In 1818 they lost their India trade; in 1833 they lost the China trade ; and when their commercial assets were gone they were but the shadow of their former self; merely the first mortgagees on the revenue of India ; or, rather worse ' compelled to look to a s i n ki ng f un d o f 2,000,0001. which was now become 4,000,0001. or 5,000,000/. That course was not a wise one for the purposes of Govern. ment. So long as it was their intention to govern India through the East India Company, so long ought they to have done everything to make that company powerful and respectable, being the trustees of the Queen for the exercise of the imperial prerogatives. But after these present debates had occurred, and the exposure of the system which would yet take place, and which would be read, as the hon. gentleman said; by the natives of India, what respect for the Company could still be entertained among the native princes or the native people. Let Parliament spare the Company's existence now if they would, India must feel that the sword of Damocles was suspended over the head of that body, and that the existence of that Company would be prolonged for a few months, or at the most for a few years. But when it was said that we should wait for a quiet time, he must ask them to consider that although the rebels who showed themselves in the field might be dis sipated and destroyed, they could not expect for years to have returned to that condition of peace which was referred to as the epochot the proposed change. But the interference of Parliament was pin ured as an evil, and the occasion of evils, He for one had no dread of the bugbear. He had himself been a British colonist. He, admitted to those who made a charge against the Impe rial Government that there had been mismanagement of the colonies by the Colonial-office- But he made a die. tinction. The Colonial-office erred from ignorance. Some of these colonies were new and unknown; theyhad sprung into existence of a sudden, and so rapid was their continued growth, that a person who absented himself for five years, returned to see a new world entirely un known to him. Under these circumstances the Colonial Office were without the requisite information, and those who came to London from any of them usually were brought by personal objects, and gave one-sided infor mation. But with regard to India, the Minister could not desire to take proceedings in any of its corners, but he would find in this country a man who, without a motive to bias his communications, could give the most accurate and detailed information respecting it. Besides he must assure the house that nothing was so much desired in the colonies as the discussion of their case in Parliament at the time of that mismanagement. They need to say, half in bitter earnest, half in joke, that if they could only get up an insurrection, however small, they were certain of the attention of Parliament and deliverance from the evils whioh they suffered. The Indian Government was essentially a bureaucracy in principle, in which there was something good and some thing bad, and something which had outlived its day. But the characteristic of a bureaucracy was that it could not reform itself. The insinuation contained in this petition against the house that it would be rash, violent an l prasump`nous in its interference with the govornment of India was repelled by the course which it bad pursued in the case of the British colonies— (bear, hear)—for instead of retaining the power which the house might have exorcised through the Colonial-office, they had, through the influence of such men as his lamented friend Sir William Moles worth, relinquished that power for ever by giving these colonies constitutions and the advantages of self-govern. ment. He, in conclusion, expressed his trust that the commotions which now convulsed India would cease with the change which this bill proposed, and that the bill would be introduced into that country with an act of grace and amnesty which might have had the happy effect of calming down the sanguinary excitement that stilt existed in that country. Mr. LIDDELL was not prepared to hand over to the Government of India to the nominees of the Crown. He s!iinngly opposed the bill, both in pri nc i p l e an d deta i ls. Mr. SL ANEY supported the bill, admittinr, that the government of the Company had done much for the civilisation of India , Bat it bad yet left India by its exations in is d e solate and wretched con di t i on, wh i ch called f )r reform an d chan g e. Mr. CRAUFURD thought th a t th e merchants of I L was characterised as a company of mer chants. He found fault with the co mpos i t i on o f t h e n o d n i d a o n Company a proposed council, a nd of the num ber of eight members of which it was to be c om p osed. They would not be aura ggrieved by the way i n w hi c h the E ast eient for the duties they would hove to perform. The chief reason for opposing the bill was that it ought to have been preceded by inquiry before a committee. As yet the house was not in possession of sufficient infor mation. Sir H. RAWLINSON would offer a few practical observations, the results of thirty yearn' experience. He should not discuss all the particulars alluded to by the last speaker, but should confine himself to the points actually before the bottle ; first, whether any change was required ; and, secondly, whether, if it was required, this was the proper time to introduce it. The change, if any, must be twofold : the aboliti on of the d ouble government at home, Queen's name i n I n di a . If d th o e r refer to th e ev id ence b e f ore s ion a f t in 1852 and 1853, th ey wou ld iscehvidence condemnatory of the double a ttahh n n eeddy committeeti w h a e oi tulad proclamat ion mb aaswh ioh of m i government, which made it marvellous that such a system had existe d so lon g , Its continuance could only be explained by an elusion made in another place by a member of Lard Aberdeen's Government, to the effect that the defects were admitted but it was thought an abrupt change would be dangerous, and so a partial im provement was first iutroduced to break the fall of the company. (A laugh.) It would be perhaps more agreeable and more graphic to state a few facts than to go into the general question ; he would cite two such facts—the constitution of the secret committee, and the relations of the Court of Directors to tho Board of Con trol. It was generally thought that the company was r esponsible to the Government, and the petitions as sumed that ; but in fact for a large portion of the actual government it was not the company but the Board of Control who were responsible. In the case of the Per sian war, the Courtof D:rectors were not indeed opposed to war, for they knew nothing about it till they read the printed despatches in the Parliamentary blue-books. He did not say whether this was right, but it was an anomaly to say that ender such circumstances the com pany could be responsible. (Elear. hear.) Another point was, the relaticnship which existed between the Covet of Directors and the Board of Control. He should describe the gestatios of a despatch from conception to parturition. Tne idea of a despatch was first conceived by one of those gentemen whose fine Roman hand was recognised in the petition. (A laugh.) The hon. gen tleman then describid in detail the processes through which a despatch had to pass up to the period when it was sent out of the country. It was true that in a case of emergency all this could be simplified, but what was to be thought of a system which, when the time of trial came, lad to be superseded ? It was a poor defence to say that t could be simplified, because if the same results were oltained by the simple process what was the good of the complications ? He thought that when the system win abolished the only feeling enter tained on the suhjec would be one of astonishment that it had ever existed. Having considered the merits, or rather demerits, of he Government at home, he came to the question of the elects of the change in India. With regard to the Europan community, with the excep`ion of a few ex :Insives, tie old civil servants of the company, no one would be otttrwise than pleased with the change. Ur Halliday, the vise-president of the Bengal provinces, had given his opicicin that much detriment resulted from the government behr; carried on in the name of the com pany. Officers in tee army, and judges, were proud of being in the service if the Queen, and those under the company desired to le considered an in the service of the Crown. The native had a strong feeling in favour of government by the Crown. Several other gentlemen had also given thei: opinion that if the name of the Crown were bronchi forward it would increase the re verence of the natives for the Government. The result of his own experience in the military service of the com • pany was that both the military and the civilians had pride in belonging to the Indian service, but in all hie experience he never heard of any feeling of reverence for the company, and all their aspirations were for honours from the Crown, from whence, in fact, all their honours were received. Provided the substantial rewards were continued, which he supposed, was the intention, the an nouncement of their having become a royal army woull be received with great and general satisfaction. As to the effect on the natives, he thought that in ordinary times the effect on the lower orders, including the working claszes, and the lower portion of the army, the change wou►d not produce any appreciable eff,ct. The natives were more amenable to individual and Local influences than to the force of any abstract consideration. There was no such thing as national feeling among the people of India, thodrgh there were feelings of caste and raca ; but there was an extreme docility and susceptibility to local influence. The Scinde Horse, for instance, consisted of the most in flammable materials, high caste [Undoes and Alussul mans, who, however, were kept faithful without a murmur, by the influence of the high character of General Jacobs, their commander. (Hear, hear.) In She same Punjeub a similar influence was exercised by the confidence of the men in the justice, ability, and honour of Sir John Lawrence. It was impossible to over-estimate the power of individual influence among them, which had much more weight than any abstract principle of government. But as to the educated classes who were constantly reading Eng lish papers and were given to abstract questions, the case was different. They understood the difference between the company and the Crown—the only error was, that they were perhaps disposed to over-rate the . power of the Crown, and to under-ra'e that of the company. The change would affect them according as they were loyal or disloyal. If loyal, they would like it as giving increased security ; if disloyal, they would dislike it as affording less scope for agitation. As to the second question, whether change, if desirable, was so at the present time. The question of delay was specious and attractive. It would be agreeable---let, to those who objected to the bill on principle; 2dly, to those who approved of the bill on principle, but really thought this a bad time to introduce it; and, idly, to those who had not yet made up their minds. But be trusted the good sense of the house would triumph over these considerations. (Hear.) The reasons urged by the advocates of delay, in order to deter the Govern ment from legislating, were contradictory one to the other. On one side it was stated that the mutinous sepoys would consider the change of government a great triumph, whilst others were of opinion it would depress the natives if they knew they were to be handed over to the Imperial Government. He considered neither of the results would take place. If we had been driven out of the country the sepoys would have had some cause for congratulation, bet to find themselves in a worse position in having a strong Government substituted for a weak, would not, he thought, give them much cause for congratulation. They would fled no change. The same officers who now acted against them would also act against them under the proposed change, with the ad • vantage of greater harmony and power than now from being members of the same service. (Hear, hear.) It had been said that the mutiny should first be put down and legislate after; but he considered it was not a mutiny, because there was no such thing as a body of mutinous soldiers banded together to oppose us. Serious opposi tion was offered still in Rohilcund, Central India, and Oude, but it partook more of the characteristic of civil war and revolt than mutiny, and means must be taken to re-e tablish our authority in those quarters by force of arms and what else was consistent with honour and dignity. He did not mean to say that the name of the Queen of England wou'd be sufficient for the restoration of peace and order, but it would do much towards effecting it. All the information he had received from India described that country as being in the utmost danger, for there was a great chasm between Europeans and natives that could not be bridged over. All that common ground by which the European used to approach the native and draw out his sympathies, and gain his affections, had been cut away. (Hear, bear.) Mutual confidence was destroyed between them, and what was worse, the natives knew that the Europeans distrusted them. (Hear, hear.) He did not for a moment consider that the Queen's name would be every thing in that country, but he looked upon it as a great auxliiary for the restoration of peace and order. It would act as the basis of a new starting point, and cause them to look forward instead of backward. (Hear.) It was absolutely necessary that a number of changes should take place in the administration of India, which it was impossible to postpone for the sake of party, and wnich it was absolutely essential to our rule in that country, should be introduced at the present time, whe ther the bill was passed or not. The question of finance was one of the utmost importance. The reorganisation of the army was absolutely necessary. The tenure of the land was a matter of almost equal moment, and above all there was the system of administration which must now be reformed, and they should take advantage of these occasions to proclaim simultaneously or nearly so the Queen's name, with the inauguration of the new system. The effect of such a proceeding would be not to alarm and depress the native mind, but to elevate and encourage it, an opinion in which he was borne out by Captain Meadows Taylor. The danger to result from the proposed change need not be extended. Three months had now elapsed since this subject was publicly announced, and it would be three months longer before the bill would be passed, and he maintained that if any danger was to be apprehended from its passing in India, they would be self-evident before it came into operation, but such was not likely to be the case. If, however, they delayed proceeding in the change, and the bill was to hang for some time in committee, it would have a pre judic'al effect. The power of the company's officers might be weakened by it in India, and disorganisation follow. In supporting the introduction of the bill, and deprecating delay, he must be understood as not committing himself to an unqualified approval of the bill. (Rear, hear.) There were many points he wished to see al ered. Ho thought the pro posed number of councillors too limited for the adequate discharge of the duties of the board, and he should like to see the independence of the board better-established, but whether it was to be obtained by the introduetion of the legislative element or not, he would not then stop to discuss. Sir J. WALSH thought that the double government brought together the local privileges of one set of men, with the corrective decisions of another. This measure was introduced in deference to the clamour raised out of doors against the double government. It would make the Indian administration, both here and in India, a mere party matter. Mr. A. MILLS objected to the double government, and therefore supported the bill, but could not consent to regard it as a bill of indictment agaii,,t the company. He could not admit the reasons alleged for delay, as he could not see when those delays were to cease. Mr. WYLD could not agree that the renewal of the East India Company's charter had been a condonation of their past shortcomings. The great defect of the pre sent system was that it was a double government. Tee Vice-President of the Board of Trade (Mr. Lowe), how ever, bad denied that there was any double government, and had asserted that there was an autocracy on the part of the Board of Control. If that were so, and the monarch of Cannon-row were the real governor of India, then the Court of Directors was but a screen to cover his errors. His (Mr. Wyld'e) objection to the pre. sent system was that it was unfitted for the requirements of the age. The bill of Mr. Pitt constituting the double i g e ov l e e r d n i m a e w n e t r w e a e s er i l e 3 a p s a s r ed atj a v t el a y l t i i m m i e when e o x u te r n p r, os a se n ssi b o a n d s that statesman survived to witness the present enlarge ment of our empire, he would never have agreed to so unsatisfactory a form of administration. It must be remembered, too, that our interest in India was continually increasing. The Russian war had been undertaken in great part to check the aggressive de signs of that power in the East, and the recent Per ts i i o a la n . w a N r o h m s d e bond ve e m e e n e t c in m m A e sia c e could u w i d i t t h e k a e s p i l m a e i l e a r w i i t n b t o e n , t affecting imperial interests, and therefore he deemed it to be most desirable that some legislation should take plane upon this most important subject. (Divide.) Mr. D. SEYMOUR argued that the government in India had of late been improved and simplifi d, and it behoved them to make corresponding simplifications in our Indian g :vernment. The natives were eager for the proposed change, and any alarm they might feel would be set at rest by the discussions which had taken place in that and in the other House of Parliament. He be lieved that the proposed change would encourage the settlement of Europeans in India. Yr ADAMS c uld not find one sufficient reason for the destruction of a Government which had lasted so long. The single objection he could lay hold of was this, that Cannon-row was at some distance from Leadenhall street. If its pr :ceedings were roundabout, the same might be said of many departments of the Government itself. Had the management of the Company presented the same deficiencies as were shown by the management of the Government in the Crimea I Why, the language of praise had been well nigh exhausted in the terms by which the conduct of the Company daring the late crisis had been spoken of. The sepoys, who received only such impressions as those about them chose to convey, would be open to the most false impressions when they found that those against whom they had risen bad been put duwn by the strong hand of the Government. The Com pany, after having gone so far in the repression of the revolt, ought to have the honour of completing it. On, every ground the present was an inopportune thee for the proposed change. Mr. ELLIOT said that the delays in the proceedings of the double Government were not greater than those in the Treasury and Colonial-office, He thought that no thing would be more injurious to India than constant discussions in that house, where the majority of the mem bers knew nothing about the matter, and where intern p rate speeches would be made which would be trans ferred to the native papers in India. Cel. SYKES moved the adjournment of the debate. Lord PALMERSTON said if the motion was pressed he must accede ccedet to ii. to-morrow ; ois butthe d d a e y b ), atr, if adjourned, must be continued when he hoped that a vote would be taken upon it. Mr. GROGAN must oppose the debate being renewed to-morrow (Tuesday), as he had the first motion on the paper, which he bad been trying for two years to bring forward, (Laughter.) Col. SYKES persisted in moving the adjournment of the debate. The SPEAKER then put the question, and the house divided. The numbers were— Fer the adjournment 2BO Against it elejority Lord PALMERSTON apre sled to the hon. gentle man oppo,ite (Mr. Grogan) to forego the motion which stood in his name for to-morrow, and in that care the bon, member for Inverness would probably follow his example, seeing , the importance of brin g ing the d e b a t e on the present bill to a conclusion as speedily as possible. Mr. GROGAN said that if the noble lord would give him his committee of inquiry now, there would be an end of the matter. (A. laugh.) He should certainly bring on his motion to-morrow, unless he were given Friday. The debate was then adjourned until' to-morrow (this dav). CLERKS OF PETTYSEiSTONS (IRELAND) • BILL, Thia bill was read a second time. CONSPIRACY TO MURDER BILL. The second reading of the Conspiracy to Alorder Bill was; postponed until Friday. PUBLIC HEALTH ACT (1848) AMENDMENT BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he believed the objections to this bill would be more readily examined in committee than on the second reading. It the house would now consent to the second reading, he would name an early day for the committee. ir. PALK said his objections were to the principle , of the bill, and be should therefore very much prefer discussing the bill now to acceding to the request of the right hon. gentleman. Mr. LOCKE was sure that this bill had become a Parliamentary nuisance, for he had attended nikht after night in expectation of the second reading and the die cussion arising thereon, when he found it h.,d been invariably postponed. The house ought to know whether it was to he preceded with or not. Lord PALMERSTON said that the bill did not deserve the character which the hon. gentleman had given it. It was a bill to remove a einsance—(hear, and laughter)—to remove that state of disease which had occasioned a great loss of life. He L •,,ed the house would not be led away by the vague ob , etvations of hon eutlemen who wished to treat the matter as ono of no imp , rtance, that they would come to the discussion without the prejudice that was attempted to be thrown over it. Sir G. PECHELL hoped that the bill which had been brought forward several times would have a day fixed for its discussion. It had thrown over the Conspiracy Bill that night, and he hoped it would last long enough to throw it over altogether. Mr. HENLEY thought that a day should be fixed for the bill. It contained 180 odd clauses, and several private acts were embodied in it. The bill was then postponed till Friday. NATIONAL GALLERY. Lord ELCHLO wished to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he intended to proceed with this sub ject, a hich was one of great importance I Mr. WILSON said that the sui j et would be post• poned tid Thursday next. The house adjourned at 20 minutes ti one, TIZL4L OF TEE ROYAL BRITISH BANK DIRECTORS. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH—CITY. (Before Lord Campbell and a Special Jury.) [The following appeared In successive editions or The Sun of yesterday The Queen on the prosecution of the Attorney-General v. Humphrey Brown, Edward Esdaile, Henry Dunning Macleod, Loraine de Wolfe Cochrane, Richard Hartley Kennedy, William Daniel Owen, John Stapleton, Hugh Innes Cameron, Lockhart Mere Valiant, and Fred. Valiant. Sir F. Thesiger, Mr. Atherton, Q.C., Mr. Sergeant Ballantine, Mr. Welsby, and Mr. Joseph Brawn ap peared on the part of the Crown ; Mr. Huddleston, Q.C., Mr. Kennedy, and Mr. Bell, for Brown ; Mr. Edwin James, Q.C., and Mr, Asciland, for Esdaile, Mr. Lawrance,'for Macleod ; Cochran, who had not pleaded, did not appear ; Mr. Sergeant Shee, Mr. D. D. Keane, and Mr. Jacobs appeared for Alderman Kennedy ; Mr. Slade, Q.C., and Mr. Kingdon for Owen; Sir F. Kelly, Mr. Bovill, Q.C., and Mr. Coleridge for Stapleton ; and Mr. Digby Seymour and Mr. Bennett fir Cameron. The following is an abstract of the indictments —The indictment charged the defendants, in the first count, with having fraudulently conspired to represent that the affairsiof the British Bank were in a prosperous condition during the whole of the year 1855, and half of the year 1856, and for that purpose, in order to carry out the conspiracy, to publish a statement of the affairs of the hank, to declare a dividend, when, in fact, no dividend had been earned ; to issue 500 new shares, when they well knew that the bank was approaching insol vency, and to publish false abstracts of the annual balance-sheets, purporting to exhibit, Ist, the assets and liabilities ; 2d, the profit and loss ; 31, the capital property and its value ; and, 4th, the obligations and circulations of the bank to the date at which the acoounte were made up. It further charges that they did, in fact, publish sash false statements ; that they had paid dividends as if they had been earned .by the operations of the bank which had in fact never been earned ; that to keep up the credit of the bank they purchased shares in the market and paid for them out of the moneys of the bank ; that they issued circa• lard falsely stating that the bank was prosperous, and published advertisements inviting persons to become shareholders, with the like object; and had also pub lished a notice that they were about to issue a large number of new shares at a 51. premium. With the exception of the last count in each information, which is a general count to cheat, the statements in the several counts are varied with respect to shareholders, customers to the bank, and liege subjects generally, the object charged being to defraud, by inducing such persons to buy new shares, or to depoat money in the bank. The, case was resumed this morning. It is expected that from the intricacy of the details connected with the charges to be proved again 4 the defendants the evidence for the prosecution will not be completed till Saturday. The learned counsel for the defendants will occupy at least three days in addressing the jury for their respective clients, and allowing one day for Lord C.impbe'l to corn up, the case will not be finished earlier than Thursday or Friday week, Lord Campbell suggested to the jury that it would be better for them to take copious notes of the evidence that would be aelduited on the trial, because they would be detained many daSrs, and the evidence would no doubt be of an intricate character, referring, as it would, o so many defendants. The Foreman of the Jury said he was directed by the jury to make a rather novel application. They would be called upon to attend many days, and they thought they ought to be paid a guinea a-day for their attendance. Lord Campbell said it was impossible for him to make any arrangements of that kind. It must rest with the parties concerned. The Foreman—Perhaps Sir F. Thesiger could give them an answer. Sir F. Thesi g er said it Was hard to call on him to say the subject. I have no authority to act. Lord Campbell said neither sides ought to be called on so to act. Sir 1. Thesiger said it was undesirable he should be called upon then to pronounce an opinion. Lord Campbell said he thought so. The subject then dropped. Mr. Paddison was then recalled and examined by Mr. Atherton in reference to the Welsh mines, Lord Campbell said it was desirable] that wheat any new!evidence was - called on its nature should be briefly stated. Sir F. Theaiger assented, and said he then proposed to commence inquiry into the Welsh mines, and pursue it to its end. Mr. Paddison then proceeded—Mr. H. Scale hap transactions with the hank in 1850. He was engaged in the iron trade in Glamorganshire, and was in commu nication with Ducalerr and Swift, a London house. Mr. Scale obtained a credit of 5,000/. in that year, which Was limited to 3,0001., to cover any bills the bank might be liable bearing their names. On August 16, 1850, a mortgage of the Hyttt collieries was executed by Scale to the Bank, and also his interest in two mortgages for 2,0001. on property in Liverpool, which bore a previous mortgage for 5,000/. The lease of the colliery was for 21 years, with a surface rent of 551. annually for the coal and iron mines, with 3501. a year for the first 15 years, th en 250/. for the next year, an I afterwards a pepper corn, making a gross payment of 6,658/. for the term. In 1850 a further advance of 3,000/. was made to Scales on the assignment of a mortgage on plant and machinery at Langley Field Colliery, Stafford-hire, and iron works near Salle. There was also a special charge given on Scales' interest in premises at Briton Ferry, Gerth, Cefu and Park iron works, warehouses and wharves at Portcawl, Glamor. gan ; there was also a subsequent mortgage! on 600 tons of pig iron. The witness then proceeded to detail the transaction in reference to these advances, and the part the defendants took in the proceedings by reference to books, papers, &e. The evidence was of the dullest description, but it might be briefly narrated in the f Bowing manner:— Scale was also at that time the lessee of the Catherine Gas Ironworks and the Briton Ferry works ; he was under a contract to purchase the iron works from the Galvanised Iron Company for 50,000/.; part of the purchase money was to be left upon a mortgage of the estate. The Briton Ferry works he was to purchase at 20,003/ ' upon the same terms. He applied to the bank for further advances, and ho gave, by way of security, a mortgage on the Langley Fields Colliery, in Stafford shire. The bank continued to discount the bills of sale drawn upon Dunelerr, and a Mr. Swift, a merchant, had been employed in the negociation of these discounts, and in a very little time it appeared they amounted to about 18,000/. The bank, according to a statement made by Esdaile himself, was very insufficiently secured for these large advances, and it was suggested by Esdaile that the bank should advance a further surn,for the purpose of enabling them to become the purchasers of the dif ferent works which bad been designed to them by way of mortgage. Pending these negotiations Scale became a bankrupt, and the matter proceeded between Swift, Dornlerr, and the company. The bank was to advance to Dumlerr a sum of 20,000/., which they were to pay to the Galvanised Iron Company, who were to sell the first mortgage for a sum not exceeding 20,0001., and a aura of 4,000/., which they agreed to advance, provided Durolerr and Swift would undertake to procure another 4,0001. The Galvanised Iron Company was to have a second mortgage for 10,000/., and Dumlerr and Swift procured the advance of 4,000/, rorai nally from a person named Ashley, but which was in reality advanced t o th e G a l van i se d Iro n C om p any. Ddmlerr and Swift were to carry on these works ire Glamorganebire, but it was agreed that the bank was to send down an inspector to ascertain that the proceedings were properly carried on. The advances in June, 1851, by the bank to those works were 48,000/. Messrs. Diicolerr and Swift required a further advance, being unable to pay their workmen, and the bank consented if the parties gave them a warrant of attorney to advance thorn 10,000/. The bank advanced them 10,0501 to enable Diimlerr and Swift to pay a com position of 33. 63. in the pound. The whole amount advanced by the bank in respect of these works was 65,0001., whereas the whole value was 23,000/. The works were thrown on their hands. Unsuccessful attempts were made to get up a company to take the mines, but at last it Mr, Clarke proposed in 1852 to work the mines, and to pay the bank a royalty, and to apply that in liquidation of the debt. Mr. Clarke resigned the directorship, and endea voured for some time tu work the mines ; but he was at , ength forced to give it up. The whole of these works were eventually abandoned as worthless, and the final result was that it appeared from the balance- , beet of the 3d Sept., 185 G, that the bank had suffered a loss of 120,0001. Tins evidence was given to show the reckless 'nanner in which the directors dealt with the funds of ~ he bank, and the insertion of the svcurilies in the oalance sheet as available, when in reality they were orthless as tending to prove misrepresentation and raud on the part of those directors who were privy to the advacces as they were made, and when the half early reports were agreed to and distributed to the public. In the course of the negotiations for the ad var ceR, Mr. Mulleus informed the directors that 200,000/. had been laid out on the works, and that it v u uld take 30,0001. to work them. The plant, if sold )n the premises, would fetch 15 ; 0001 He had con -tructed the engine, &c., for the Galvanised Iron Works. He reserved to himself the right of revising his off-hand estimate. The bank afterwards •ient Mr. Williams to inspect the works, and he made a report to the bank which could not be found, though Mr. Paddison sa d he believed Mr. Williams , iad a copy in his possession. Sir F. K,lty called for the production cf the report, or a copy of it. Sir F. Thewger would admit a copy. The defendants had subpamed Mr. Williams, and were no doubt aware , if the contents of the report. Mr. Williams was called by the Crown, and pro. ducpd a copy of the report, but Sir F. Kelly objected to its production without Mr. Williams was put into tho bcx. Sir F. Thesi,v r declined to do so. Sir F. Kelly - said that without the report the evidence For the crown was incomplete in a most important part. , .. . Sir F. Thesiger said he would take the responsibility ,f not calling Mr. Williams. Lord Campbell said he would admit secondary ovi lence of its contents. Mr. Paddison (the writer) said it was a voluminous document, and ha had no general recollection of its contents. This witness's evidence having reference to the execu %ion of deeds, &c., and the correspondence between the partie., as well as explaining entries in the minute book relative to the transactions between the bank, Scale, Dumlerr and Swift, will iu all probability occupy the whole of the day. Much time was occupied in reading the various documents. A correspondence was read in reference to the Welsh and Langley Field Collieries, and the minutes of the Court of Directors i❑ 1851. Certain portions of theca were real for the prosecution, and others, at the request of the learned counsel, for the defence. In one of them it was stated that the Cefu and Garth Works would realise a profit on working of 4,0001. That report was made after the embarrassment of the borrowers. Witness said that on the 2d December the general manager and Mr. Esdaile inspected the Welsh mines. The Celli and Garth coal mines were represented to them as inex haustible, whilst the markets for the sale of the coal raised were easily to be reached. These desirable objects it was stated in the report might be realised at a trifling cost. The Briton Iron Works were reported as a good investment, and a small advance in the price of iron could not fail to attract customers that would be advantageous to the bank. The tendency of this evidence was to show that the directors in making their advances and afterwards in their attempts to work the mines had acted on representations which they thought reliable, but which were in fact of a deceptive character, and that they believed they were acting bona fide for the benefit of all o rn cerned with the Royal British Bank. In June, 1852, Mr. Beveridge reported to the bank that the Cefu Colliery and Garth and Park Ironworks were worth, Cefu Colliery as a going concern, 10,000/. ; the iron works, as a going concern, 10,0001. ; and the plant to be broken up, 6,0001., making together 26,0001. Mr. Beveridge in that report stated the grounds on which he differed from Mr. Williams, who also inspected the mines, and reported thereon. These matters were brought forward in great detail before the Court, and they were most carefully and anxiously considered by the board. The directors, in conse quence of application to them, agreed to RF:k 60,0001. for the works, but to take 55,0001. for them. At the end of 1852, and the begin- Ling of 1853, courts were held for the purpose of realising the security. It was proposed to raise a company for that purpose, and Mr. Pinnager was engaged by the bank to negotiate with Mr. Baker to accomplish that ol.ject. After some further evidence of a like character the court adjourned. Country Markets. NORWICH-FEB. 13. Thoro was a shorter supply of wheat to-day, best samples fully supporting last week's rates, and inferior is to 2s higher, with a fair sale. A limited supply of barley, and prices may be quoted 1s dearer for all kinds. White wh , ,at, 485 to 60a ; rod, 42s to 4Us ; barley, 39s to 415. ; flour, 3 to ---s per sack; beans, 420 to 445; peal, 425 to 435. NOTTINGHAM—FEL 13. Wheat in better condition to-day, anti the market well 'applied, with a good attendluce. Good gualities are urt; changed, inferior at a advance of ls to 21 per qr.; go‘" white samples making 64 and red LOa per 36 atone. 13 1r' ley in tolerable supply, and a slow demand ; good rushing qualities 403 per qr . O ats and beans unchanged. LEICESTER—FIB. 13. At our corn market to-day wheat sold at an advance of 2s per qr. over last day's currencies. Barley nitehangod , with a limited business. Oats and beans were each le per quarter dearer. CHELMSFORD—FEL 12. The whoat trade to-day r was in a rather animat ed etate, at about t he rates of last week. Spring corn d—dl • Wheat, white, old, per s. s. ol• e• qr. 45 51 Oats, per qr. . 24 29 I new.... 45 51 Peas, Partridge 4O 43 red, old 43 46 1 White 3S 4 ' Basle new 40 4 4 6 Boiling 39 40 44 4 0 Dun A Chevalier 33344 [ Beans, Tisk 36 ;3 ,(1 Grinding 23 32 I H arrow ti c k s 36 ;Ts &fait 70 73 j Mazagan 3S .- Chevalier 72 731 Ditto, new... 32 g- COLCHESTER— FIB. 13. An active trade in corn to-clay, and the transactions, in wheat must be quoted at an advance of le per Barleys maintain their price, but other sorts not much in demand. Beans and peas as before. Prices to-day were as follow :—Wheat, white, 46s to 504 red, 423 to 468; barley, 36s to 43s ; oats, 22s to 30s ; bea ns, Mazagan, 34 s to 3G, ;'middle and small, 36s to 401; peas' white, 408 to 428 ; grey, 40s to 425. Official Statement of the Quantities of Corn, &c., recei ve ' in the po r t o f L on d on, from the following ports, from Feb. 7 to Feb.l3, both inclusive. 3 I .'• .4,. :1 1 a fa t X 0 . _— 186 613 11 -- 300) 77 346 63 ;.' 1 A Colchester Harwich Leigh &ialdon 35i 557' I 273 25 ;1868,225 DALKEITH GRAIN MARKET—Fint. 11 . inf Qrs. B es t. Current. Int° 795 Wheat ...47s 63 13 7 0 Oats 29 s 0 ( 1 23 s 3d a 0 j 667 Barley 3 ,ls 63 27s Sid 23 0 133 Peas & beans 39a Od 37s 23 HADDINGTON GRAIN MARKET—Fig. 12. wusA.T. I sAittly I oars. I" i ll First 4Se Od 329 6,1 30i Od 4 3 ' 9d Second 403 2d ) 29s 2d ) 26s id I i ,),1 MI d 33s 61 125 s 01 I ..o, 01 I 3 43 id ' Total quantity of wheat iu mar k e t, 683 qrs., 1577 s old PP barley ~ /507 qrs., 486 s i 6 , 0 ) . it , oats i; 770 qrs., 674 200 qrs., 161 sold 112 beans ~ PO AVERAGES PER IMPERIAL QUAR T". Wheat, 2/. 0 2 9-12ths ) Barley, —V. 9 2 Oats, ... 11. 6 1 9-12tha 1 Beaus, 1/. 17 9 1012th 0 11-12 t! KIEKCALDY—FEB. 13. We had good supplies of grain to-day of all kiwis. Ss lea ready at about the rates of last week. Wheat. 1 Barley. 1 O a t s . I 13,,e"111.4 First I ' OJ Second Third 34s Od 228 01 1 19s Odl ___?2,,,' „,„0 BIRTIIS. DILLON—On the 14th inst, at 57, Upper Soymoul"otro ei the Lady Louisa Dillon, of a son. pf HUNTER—On the 13th inst., at Ramsgate, the wife Lieut.-Colonel W. Hunter, of a daughter. LURG AN— On the 11th inst., at 5, Leinster-street, Dsbl the Lady Lurgan, of a son. 1 06 KING—Oh the 13th inst., at 239, Upper That:n(o4i Mrs. John King, of a daughter. MA,RRIAGES. . 1 1 01 1° SHAW —CH EETHAM—Ou the 11th inst., at Ca- ,-- a s or Church, Thomas Sh aw , E sq ., o f St. Chged'°; "00 0 ' worth, to Emily, second daughter of David Cue' Esq., of the Priory, Staley bridge. 13 10 TANE—DUNSTAN—On the 11th inst., at the par- -11 e -vane, 013 of Broml e y St. L eonar d, Ed war d Marriott Stepney, to Juuo Hoare Dunstan, of Bromley• D E A T II S. isoni itlif ARIONVSMITH—On the 13th inst., Gilliam Arr.? - ii. , , 9 M.R.C.S., youngest son of Charlos Arrowsruitp, of Burton-crescent. i . th e ARDILL—On the 10th inst., at 73, Harcourt-stroo;upti Rev. Richard Ar&iill, A.M., of Johnstown-house' e Dublin, and rector of Kilteruan, aged 56. O " BANNISTER—On the 6th inst., at Warminster, •it John Bannister, Esq., aged SO. a ,. 03 KEEN—On the 14th inst., Job Keen, Esq. , °f j ' aill Villas, Horn-lane, Chigwell ESSQX. aged 82. therf Moxort— On the 12th inst., at , the reaidence of b is bre Putney-heath, Alfred Maxon, Esq., aged 3 6 . ,te Or O LIVIE R-0n the 12th inst., the Rev. D. J. Olivier, r. of Clifton, Beds, aged 68.. Til °l ' TREACHER—On the 12th inst. , at High Wye etube, 'Preacher, Esq.. J.P., aged 69. _...../".°,...---• „di; - - 0 11 '.. /n Loripozi Printed and Publi s h e d . by MITRI:” P -; of No, 112, Strand, Print er , at Th 4 Su n CO l 3ol ' 112, Strand, in the Precinct o f the Savoy , i u of 11iddlesex, Tuesday, February 15, 1858' 1