The Sun. — London, England, 1829-03-04 00:00:00

the word " willing" hut whether he had or not, the word 4 - ready" struck him to have been need' . in a tone as if the will were not wantime,-..when he heard men calmly talk ing of such differences hetween his Mejesty'saubjecre as created civil discord, and tended, perhaps., *-civil war, he naked who could say that there tors not ground for fear ( He ir, hear. )—That the Monde Duke at the head of the Go vernment should he ace:Teed - de to the wise and steteentin like fear of not coshing the country into a diner from which even lee might not lie able to mate it tree Mit Only justifiable but praiseworthy. in the presence or the Right n. Gentleman opposite tThlr. Peelt t'ras less inclined to see any thing in his praise, then lie should otherwise be ; but not leaving had an opportunity before of alluding in terats of just praise to his manly avowal of the change lad taken e . . - ice in his mind on the great question, lie would state that his silence on that subject hitherto should be atteihuted to any motive rather then to a diein clination to join most heartily in all the panegyrics of the most enthueiastic of t to nelmirete. , —(Cheers.) !.Ir. MOORE. said, that it would appe'ar as if this peti tion teas the resn!t of a kind of national conventieena.a-as if there had beta a general meeting of tho Catholics and Pretestanno of Ireland. But what arould the House say '.when he infie toed them that Ore meeting from which the petition emanated had been called for the express purpose, Ara for that alone, of giving its sanction to certain reso lutions which had been already agreed tee. to proof of tine Ire might mention, that when t gentleman who at tended the meeting rose to otTer his opinions against the petitem, he was called tm order by the chairman, who 'stated that they amternbleil only to give (Trent to the resole , wh;cle bad been before agreed to., 'that reso lution was the Protestant declaration, and he believed that tie Noble Lords and Gentlemen whose names were at the head of the list, haul signed it willingly enough, but he could net attribute the same motives to the whole of the 2,000 persons whose names appeared to it. Thole other parties were inliteenced by mo tives which he would explain, 43r he would state Luna. It s-- , s well known to the How-arable Member f or Armagh (atm Brownlow) that the Catholic Associa tion had exercised a coercive power over public opinion in Ireland, if indeed that could be called public opinion which wee expresses( under the despotism which that body exer cised over its fellow-eubjecta. In that body, it was known that notice had been given of a non-intercourse resolution, which was to have the effect of preventing the deeling of Proteetants with Catholics, anti it woe worthy of remark that this notice mule its appearance &limit the time of ere Protestant declaration. That declaration was sent through the country, and the notice of motion in the Ca tholic Association had equal publicity; the consequence 'vas, that every Protestant who kept a shop, and depended in any degree or. the euetorn of his Catholic Fdiow-sulijects, was threatened with the loss of that ciustom and the starva tion of his family, if he refused to sign. When this was considered, it should net be wondered that 2,000 Denies heel lama obtained to the declaration. But when the public - press expressed the anti-Christian feeling in which such a reeolutien originated, some persons interrered who ehouid have intetfered two months before, end then the resolution was given up, and it wes trade a matter of charity to re frail from pressiag it. He could state a fact in illustra tion of the Ilse which hail been made of that declaration with respect to signatures. " A friend of mine (continized the Hon. Member), a silk-manufacturer of Dublin, who was a Protestant, called into the shop of a mercer in that city, Viliimen Ge . .tholie, whom he was in the habit of supplying with silk. The Protestant declaration, as it was called, was lying on the counter, and the mercer said Wit nu sign this ?' Mr friend sail that he hail hitherto ke;at himself from interfering in politics, and he did not wish to sign. Then,' said the mercer, •if von do not, you cannot have onr custom.' My friend, who was a man of independent enirit, was indignant at this threat, anal re -plied, Ma'am,' says he—(Loud laughter)—iny friend was .addressing himself to the lady of the house, who was in the shop at the time, and who was the epokeernaster on the micasion-- 4 Ma'am,' says he—(a. laugh)—' I hare several Catholics in my employment, and what would 3on think of me if 1 wire to discherge them on recount of our difference s.i relicien ? I have too much Protestant feeling to tike such n course; and, iron. the sauce feeling, I will not allow she threat you hold cut to influence me in w hat iny conscience aloes no: approve.' My friend left the shop, arid some silks which he had sent as patterns for an order about to be given, were next day sent home.—(Hear.)—So much for the means resorted to to obtain signatures to the Protestant declaration." Mr. JAMES GRATTAN would first notice the anec dote which the Hon. Member for Dublin had introduced by tray of 411 enlivener into his speech ; and would merely say, that the Dublin silk-mercer had told him (Mr." J. Grattan) a very different story from that which he appeared to have told in the lion. Member. All that lie could con dude from the story was, that the individual who awl ad. .meseed the wife tea the ,ilk-mercer in the manner just de tail.,l to the muse, w. a Vet y uogellen , person indeed.— (A langh.)—But lerting the story pa , s for as much as it was worth, what dill it prove ?—the dreadful condition of society in Ireland.—(Hear.)—The Noble Duke at the head of his Majesty's Government, and the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, if they had nut come forwerd to check it, would have grossly :I:gimled every interest that was connected with the peace of that country. As he hail not addreeeed the House before this eeeeitni, he would avail himself of the present. opportunity to state, that if ever ther e was an occasion ore which it was incumbent for Irish gentlemen to come forward with a declaration of their sen timents, it was when a petition signed by the most in tluentiat persons in Ireland, in respect of education, intelli gence, and property, was presented to the notice of Bathe merit. That petition had originated in the following cir cumstance :—The lion. Member for Dublin, in establish ing the Brunswick Clubs in Ireland, kid given com mencement to this Association. We were surrounded in the country by small clubs, often consisting of nut more than half a dozen in lividuals—of whom the parson was generally one—which led to a very considerable annoyance of such of us as opposed them. To get rid of this an noy ince we thought it our duty to hare a public meeting in Dublin, and in that meeting we determined to follow the principle adopted in the Brunswick Clubs, of which the Hon. Member for Dublin has the credit of being the original promoter—that is, we determined to have no in dividual amongst us who was opposed to the object of our meeting. We only followed the example which the Honourable and Learned Member had himself set.— Many foul and false miluninies had been propagated against the Catholic Association ; but this was not the time for either examining or refuting them. Ile would content himself with saying, that it was mainly owing to the exer tions of that Association that the Catholic question had been brought into its present favourable condition. Mr. TRANT should like to ask whether the Castle of Dublin had not duo-en its weight into one of the scales at the time when the meeting, at which this petition was agreed upon, was convened? He would advise the Right lion. Member for Liverpool to recollect a saying of our late venerable Monarch, which had new become a matter of history. On a question, on which it was re commended to our late Sovereign to change his principles, because he could not find Ministers who would govern upon those principles, his Majesty said—" Rather than desert those principles, I will go to Charing-cross, and take the first nine or ten men that I meet there with good coats on their backs, as my Ministers. I will then throw myself before the country, and will try whether the country will, in such circumstances, desert ittoSovereign."—(Cries of ":hear," and a laugh, during which three or four stran gers in the gallery excited the notice of the Messengers of the House by their violent clapping, of their hands.)—lt was absurd to say that a Government could not be framed out of the tanks of those who opposed further concessions to the Roman Catholics. The. Eight Honourable Member for Liverpool was guilty of great inconsistency in saying so, for it was only the other night that he had volun teered a compliment to an Honourable Member near hint, and had told him in direct words that he had proved himself qualified for a seat in the Cabinet by the speech which he had then delivered. There were other gentle men equally well qualified for such situation'. lie was speakina of The younger Members of the Howe—not of stupid grey-headed Members Like himself (hear, and a laugh) ; and he maintained, that if the country would only evince its determination to adopt the princ:ple of what was called Protestant ascendancy, it would soon find able men enough to govern it up'm that principle.—(Hear, hear.) — Here he would call upon the House to look back at certain events, which, though he had not witnessed them, had become matter of history within their own recollections. He thought that he recollected something of a time when al administration, which called itself " All the Talents," declared, without any reserve, that Catholic Emancipa tion should be granted, and when it thought—if it did not say as mach—that it was impossible to make up any Cal& set that was not determined to grunt it. Batt then, as he heard, fur he was test thousand miles from Eng land, an indisildnal, of the rinse of Percival, coax holy sr other, contrive to form a Cabinet of emi nent statesmen opposed to Catholic Emancipation. He hail likewise heard that the Talents said that all the states men who formed that Cabinet were so stupid, that it was cute Impossible for them to carry on the Government for a year. Yet, u far as he had been able to observe whilst he resided at such a distance from England, that Cabinet, even after the bead of it had been snatched away by a pre utature fate, had carried on the government on his prin ciples for sixteen or seventeen years; and on the same prin- cip'es, had the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite known his own strength and value as a Protestant, he might have carried on the Government for many a long ye tr yet to come. (Hear.) If the Noman Catholics would only be satisfied by receiving the concessions for which they how clamoured, no one wouldbe more ieady than he should be to grant their drmanTr; , . (Hear, hear.) But we have the mods of their greatest leaders to prove to us, that they iVotthl not be satisfied with such concessona, and those %voids delivered not more than two or three days ago: He would not allude further to the individuals who had said so, because there was an accumulation of evidence Upon evidence that the Roman Catholics only iean . ted admission into the two Houses of Parllameut, to tear down the Pro testant Church of P. - eland in the first instance, and when that ;bas accomplished, to tear down the Protestant Church of England in the next. What, he Vro . uid ask, had one of the most influential Mt.lmps of the Roman Catholic Church said upon t!'.7i very topic? (Hear.) He had writ ten th.:.4 , -‘"lhe church of Ireland must fall ;—and I like emancipation, because that measure will accelerate its fall," (Loud cries of Hear, hear.)—lt had be=at Mid, however, that he coull know nothir7 of the present state of Ireland, because it had freer: tl:3 lot to live for so many years in India. To this at...tertian he would reply, that the present question was not a mere Irish question : it affected the constitution not only of Ireland, but of the whole British empire. He was himself an Irishman---his family, hi, connexions, his property were all Irish. He had attended the recent triumphal entry of his Noble Friend at Limerick, sod therefore was not altogether a stranger to the feelings of his countrymen. He wished that he could get for them all that they wished (hear, and a laegh), lint it was perhaps' as well for their own sakes that he could not.—(Hear.) A short speech was then delivered by an Hon. Member uin!er the gallery. of which nwt a single syllable reached us. Colonel It OCHFORT was surprised at the unwarrantable attack made by some of the preceding speakers on the con duct of his gallant friend (General Archdall), who was not present to def'nd himself. He would tell the Hon. Mem ber, to whom he alluded, that there was not a day in the week in which his gallant friend did not, by his active bene volence, do more good in Ireland than these gentlemen would ever do by all the speeches which they might ever make during the continuance of their lives. Mr. BROUGHAM wished the Gallant Officer to in fcrm him whether, in the remarks which he had just made, he was alluding to the Right lion. Member for Liverpool or to himself ? Colonel ROCIIFORT—To both.—(Hear, and a laugh.) Mr. BROUGHAM—I only asked the question, be c Luse I was anxious to know how far I was to consider myself entitled to a share in the compliment which the Gallant Officer paid to the preceding speakers.—(Hear.) —He then proceeded to observe, that at the time when he was addressing the House, he was not aware that the Gal lant General was not in the House. He really thought that he had seen the Gallant General in his place. Ile should have avoided speaking so decidedly as he had done, if he had known that the Gallant General was absent. Ha begged, however, that it might be distinctly under /I:, ad that he was not to idame for the allusion which he had made to the Gallant General. He had made the Gallant General his witness as to the feelings which existed out of do..rs in some quarters on this subject ; and a more un questionable witness it was impossible to find. It was nveless to suppose t'il%t he had applied his remarks to the Gallant General himself. At the same he must say, that when he heard the Gallant General stating that the Pro testants of Ireland were ready to fight the Catholics, and when lie recollected that the Protestants of Ireland looked up to the Gallant General as the leader of their body and the representative of their feelings, he felt that the state ment of Gallant Ganeral as to the feelings of the Pro testants of Ireland was too important to be passtd over without consideration by Parliament. Mr. HUSKISSON admitted that while he was speak ing, he had looked to that part of House in which the gallant General usually sat, and fancied that he saw the gallant General in his place. 17e did nut mean his re marks i.. apply to the gallant General himself. The petition was then Drought up, and ordered to he printed. Mr. BROWNLOW prcxented four petition=, with a mimilar prayer, from thrte parish::s in the county of Antrim. CATHOLIC CLAIMS. Petitions against these claims were presented by Colonel 11 , chfort, from the noblemen, gentlemen, and freeholders of the county of Westmeath ;—by General King, from two parishes in Roscommon ;—by Mr. Balfour, from the ma gistrates and town council of the borough of Pittenweeni, in Fifeshire;—and by Mr. Williams, from the inhabitants of Dnrchester.—Ordered to be printed. Petitions in favour of these claims were presented by Sir Gorge Robinson, from three different congregations of Pr.)tetant D,ssetite,s in Northampton ; by Lord G. Ca vendish, from the Unitarian Christians of Be!per, and from tile Presbyterians of Duffield,. both m tie county of Dei by ; and by Mr. H. White, from the parishes of Great Brothic, Crumlin, Rathfarnhain, and Tallaght, in the county of Dublin. Mr. 31ORGAN presented a petition from tl:e inhabi tant.' of Brecknock, against any further concessions to the Catholics. Colonel WOOD would not, after the long debates in which the House had just been engaged, read the resolu tions to which the petitioners had conic, and upon which their petition was founded. They were most temperate and conciliatory in their language—they expressed their regret at the disturbed state of Ireland, and their readiness to concur in any measures for the tranquillity of Ireland, consistent with the safety of the Protestant Constitution. They stated their alarm and anxiety at hearing that a pro position was under consideration to admit Roman Catho lics to political power. They also declared their williog ness to adopt the recommendation contained in the speech t:f his Majesty from the throne—namely, to consider, with calmness and deliberation, whether the disabilities of their Catholic brethren can be removed without encroaching on the safety of the Protestant church ; and if they could ba removed, they declared their determination not to oppose them. Reserving to himself the opportunity of delivering his opinions on the measure of concession, when it should he produced, and not choosing to press an opinion upon it now, when nothing wis known of the securities which it provided, he should now sit down, merely observing, that when it was proposed, be should support or oppose it as his conscience dictated. The petition was then brought op. On the clerk's reading it as a petition against further concessions to the Catholics, there was a general cry of " No, no." It was ordered to he printed. Sir J. 0. COTTERELL presented a petition, nume rously and respectably signed, from the inhabitants of the city of Hereford, against further concessions to the Roman Catholics. Viscount EASTNOR said that the petition was mode rately and temperately worded, and agreed to by a large majority of the persons assembled at the Meeting. Inas much as this petition expressed a hope that the Roman Catholics would not he admitted to seats in either House of Parliament, he could not accord with its prayer. It was painful, extremely painful to him, to be opposed to a petition so numerously and respectably signed, from the city which he bad the honour to represent. Having ever since he had the honour of a seat in that House uniformly felt it his Jut to support the Catholic claims, and feeling that duty to he now impressed upon his mind more strongly than ever, he should continue to act on the principles which he had formerly espoused, and should therefore sup port the receet requisition of the Crown. Mr. E. B. CLIVE corroborated the statements of his Noble Colleague as to the respectability of these petitions. He trusted that when the Bill of Relief came under con sideration, maTiy gentlemen would give it their support who now thought that they must oppose it. The petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. B. CLIVE presented a petition from a number of freemen of the city of Hereford, of a contrary import from that just presented by the Noble Lord. It prayed the House to take into its most serious consideration the pro priety of conciliating the pecy!e of Ireland, by a removal of suds grievances as were capable of being redressed con sistent with the preservation of the Constitution and the stability of the Throne. This petition was signed by 250 of :he freemen. The petition was laid on the table. Mr. CORRY presented a petition against the Cethoiie claims, from Newtown Stewart, county of Ty roue. Lord •TULLAAIORE presented a petition from several Protestant Dissenters of Falandibrd-street Chapel, Manches ter-square, against tl.e Catholic chains. Mr. BELL presented a petition from Haltnurthwistle, in the county of Durham, against the Catholic claims. • (3 Mr. LID DELL admitted•that these petitioners were re— spectable, and entitled to declare their sentiments, still it was right to add, they lived in too retired and secluded a state of society to be able to form a very decided opinion upon points of emergency connected with questions of great national policy. There were, he believed, in the same neighbourhood many excellent Dissenters, who, during the legislative discussion a year ago, upon the Corporation and Test Laws, expressed their wonder that Parliament should be taking so much trouble in their behalf upon Acts of which they had themselves never kard before that nutrient. Mr. BELL begged in explanation to say, that this pe tition in three days, received 500 signatures, which were voluntarily given, without the slightest sinister influence of their clergy, or any body else. He could bear testimony to the respectability of these parties. The petition was hid on the table. Mr. GEORGE MOORE begged present the petiti on of a tatmerobs body of the inhabitants of the parish o f St. Leonard, Shoreditch, which was the result of a public meeting, regularly convened by a equisition from the churchwardens, and held in vestry. (here was besides a food deal of discussion at the meeting ; there w , q . e counter resolutions proposed, and in the event this petition was adopted; and signed by 6,763 of the inhabitants of th e district, and if it had not been that about 3,000 more hut 11)./ riiista6 signed their names to the general London and Westminster petition (a laugh), they would have sub scribed this document. He had a personal interview with a depntatiOn from those who bad signed this petition, and lie never met with more sensible or calif' people. The petition was then read short, and upon the sentence being read in which the petitioners express a hope that no Minister will pass any measure that can undermine the stability ef tht Ooe, Mr. ALEX. BARING rose and said, that from the speech which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had made and the allusion to the sense of the petitioners, he had been disposed to anticipate that this petition Was one aglinst any concession to the Catholics; yet, what was his surprise when he had heard it read, to find it was one which every gentleman, who was anxious to have that question settled, could most conscientiously sign—for it most expressively desired them not to undermine the sta biiity of his Majesty's Throne. Mr. GEORGE MOORE remarked that if the Hon. Member had looked at the petition as a whole, and if he had coupled it with the discussion from which it had emanated, he would have seen that it plainly declared the incompatibility of the principles of concession now claimed in behalf of the Catholics with the security of the Protest ant Constitution. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN knew a little of the prae tires resorted to in getting up these parochial petitions, and from that knowledge he would venture to say that the great majority who signed them knew little or nothing of what they were about, or of the purport of the document. He had never witnessed such acts as had been used to get up these petitions. The invitations to sign were not,— " Will you enter and put your name to a petition against the course recommended in his Majesty's Speech for the consideration of the disabilities affecting his Majesty's Ca tholic subjects?" but, " Will you sign a petition against Popery?" There was likewise, this indecement held out, that every person who signed it should have a printed copy of the luminous speech of his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland.—(A laugh.)—He wanted to get a copy of this oration, but had some difficulty, as the signature to the petition wasenforced as an indispensible preliminary. And this was the prectice in most of the places where these petitions were arranged for signature. I hold, con tinued the Worthy Alderman, the hand-bill which is dis tributing from these shops at this moment. It begins— " People of England, listen to the warning voice of the worthy son of your late great, good, and moral King, of precious end glorious memory, George the Third."—(Cries of Hcar, hear, hear, from the Do• nourable Members who supported these petitions.) He must really pause for a moment, and ask Hon. Members who cher red such appeals as that which be had read, whether they did not by implication cast a gross and foul imputa tion upon the other three illustrious sons of his late Ma jesty who advocated this cause.—(Hear, hear.) The hand bill went on to say, " Listen to the warning voice of the worthy son of your great and good Protestant King, whom God may for ever ideas, who asks you, is this country in future to be a Protestant or a Popish one ?—continue eilent, and it meet become a Popish one—speak cut, and it must remain Protestant."—(Hear, hear.)—lf there were Hon. Members who thought this note the mode t.) promote fair and open petitions, all Inc should say was, he envied them neither their feelings nor their principles. He knew that many Hon. Friends of his had been chargett with throwing imputations upon the petitions of their oppo nents ; but be defied any man to show hint such asper sions as these bills contained. In other parts of the town, wlre:e Catholic petitions were lying for signatures, men were stationed with large placards, on which were in scribed in large letters " Beware of the No-Popery peti tion." These were surely shameful aria for any men to resort to in an argumentative question. And he was sorry to say, that nanny of these petitions were set on foot by clergymen, churchwerdens, constables, beadles, sextons, hell-ringers, and even grave-diggers in certain parishes. If there were any great danger impending over the Pro testant religion, the influence of the clergy ought to be u=ed in a different way to sooth men's minds, and prepare them for the controversy by milder and more creditable expedients. If they could not do so in a becoming manner, far better were it for them to leave the perishable things of this world to those who beet understood them, and to confine themselves careodly to the proper sphere of their own duties, in imparting religious • nstruction to those of their flock., who might happen to want it. These petitions were, he repeated, signed by all manner of iudivi du by boys who ran about rapidly from place to place, and were busy in all directions scribbling their names; nuinheis of the signatures were in the same handwriting. These were mean and unworthy practices, which disgraced the parties resorting to them. Let it not be said, that the right of the common people to petition should be restricted rr ithin narrow hounds. But this was not the way to ex ercise any such right ; on the contrary, it was the surest means of bringing that valuable privilege into contempt. Mr. MOORE—Not a single observation bas fallen from the worthy Alderman which either applies to the matter of this petition, or of my speech. Mr. BROUGHAM wished it to be perfectly enderstood, that though it was quite true this petition had been signed by thousands, and though it was likewise true there hail been a majority of two or three to one in favour of it at the vestry meeting, yet there had not been anything like the number of thousands in attendance at the concoction of it at the parish meeting. In fact, as he was informed, there were not much above 200 attending there, and the rejec tion of the amendment was carried by about 150 to 50. Now, the Catholic petition which had emanated from the same parish, was signed by 11 or 1,200 persons. Mr. G. MOORE—No; the numbers were, as far as lam informed of the division, 169 to 63. At least such was the division at the close of the day. There had been a much fuller attendance at an earlier hour, but many had gone away in disgust at some expressions of the opposite party. Mr. BROUGHAM—WeII, that is not the account given to me by one of those who attended the meeting. Mr. A. BARING—The fact is, that nobody can doubt the existence of great excitement upon the subject, and that considerable difference of opinion prevails concerning it. Now, although none could be more anxious than he always was, and would be, to enable the people to come down with their petitions to that House, still he could not tolerate the practice of such arts as had been describM to them. It was notorious that in different parts both of town and country, these petitions had been got up by dint of statements founded upon some horrid recital of barbarity perpetrated in gone-by times, and couched in descriptions which the language of common sense at once showed to be absurd, and which any man of common honesty wapiti have disdained to use. Ev'rry man knew that these arts were in full operation throughout the country, and sonic people were found casuists enough to endeavour to justify the means by the end. ItTpon these London petitions he hoped to be just permitted to state, that the Common Council of London ought to he taken as a fair specimen of the opinions of the citizens, and yet that Common Council had, after some discussion, by a majority ef, he believed, two to one, not given a vague arid general opinion as these other petitioners did, but in precise words recommended, and in direct terms eoforced, the propriety of removing the penal laws affecting their Catholic fellow-subjects, as the only way of pacifying wretched Ireland, and giving general security to the country at large.—(Hear.) Mr. O'NEILL said, that the voice of England was de cidedly against concession. With respect to tine obeerva tion which had fallen from the Worthy Alderman, he could have wished, Wore he attacked the Clergymen of England, he had taken tine trouh'e to glence a little at tile move• menus of the priests of Ireleod, and see how the Clare election had been carried on by their influence After a few words foein Colonel SILITIICRpte, the pe e titian wee lei(' on the table. Mr. MOORE rose to present the petition of the princi pal l'eotestents of the county of Dahlia, which com plained in the strongest terms of the conduct 01 the Cetho lic Association, of the priests at the Irish elections, and the rpiritual dominion which they so arhitraril7 exercised over four-fifths of the 'forty-shilling freeholders. This petition was signed by 2,000 Protestants of the county of Dublin, among whom were five Peers, and a ,great body of the magistrates, clergy, and most influential Protestants. Mr. H. GRAT FAN gave the :assertion relatioe to the undue influence of tire Roman Catholic priests ; an unqua lified eontradiction. Mr. A. DA'M'SON could not allow the freeholders of the county of Lomh to be maligned by the freeholders of the county of Dublin. Ile did not owe his election to the influence or intrigues of the Roman Catholic priests, and had never appealed to the religious feelings and le ejudices of the populetion. If the Roman Catholic priests did exert the influence which their order naturally give them among the people when the interests of their religion %vete at stake, they bad exerted it in a very different manner front that represented, and surely ud l the t Ir' eneli ee i tes i ta b n er t e c d le t r i g ia y t I) the i an set them an example. It should Protestant clergy had less reason to set an exampre of po litical interference, for they were protected by a Pro testant King, Protestant Lords, a Protestant House of Commons, and a Protestant Constitution. They bad every means of protection, and had therefore little excuse for their conduct. Mr. MOORE said, in.lreland a spiritual and coercive influence, in the strongest and strictest sense of the words, was exercised by the Roman- Catholic clergy over their flocks in political matters. A comparison had been made between the conduct of the Protestant and Roman Catholic clergy--a comparison which he begged leave to pronounce utterly grown-Hem The Protestant church did not recog nize the principle of coercion, and it was one on which Protestant clergymen would never act. It should be re collected, that the Protestant clergyman was not only a Minister of the Gospel, but a freeholder and a citizen. In his capacity of freeholder, lie had a right to attend at elec tron, and vote : as a citizen, he had a right to use the in flnence afforded him by his station and abilities, not to coerce men's opinions, by spiritual tyranny, but to draw them into unison with his own, by means of rea son and sound argument. He had no doubt, that to this extent, and by these means, but to this extent, and by theme • means only, had the Protestant clergy influenced the opinion of the country. The conduct of the Rontan Catholic priests was widely different—they used their spiritual influence to work upon the political sentiments of their followers. With respect to the unqualified contradiction given by his Hon. Colleague to the statement relative to the Catholic clergy, of course his Hon. Friend spoke frogs the informa tio❑ he had received, and to the best of his belief; but in answer to this contradiction he (Mr. Moore) was ready to state from his own personal knowledge that his Hon. Col league was mistaken. In truth, he had been a member of the Committee appointed by the House to try the merits of the petition, presented against the last contested return for the county of Dublin, and one of the ,e - rounds on which that petition went, consisted in the influence exerted on the voters by the Roman Catholic clergy. iie knew that there were witnesses in attendance OR that Committe ready to prove the fact—prepared to prove that the Roman Ca tholic priests did interfere and exercise a coercive influence over the freeholders by means of spiritual denunciations. Mr. H. GRATIXN had not made the statement which he did with respect to the Roman Catholic cleigy, on in formation or opinions conveyed to him by others, but from his own knowledge. An inquiry was made into the alle gation, which was found, after the fullest investigation, to be entirely groundless. The assertion was a part of the disgraceful efforts making to delude the minds of the people of England with respect to the Roman Catholic Question. Some of the individulls who made these charges against the priests were put to the trial in the county of Waterford, and they could not prove their allega tions ; they were put to the test in the county of Lomb, and they failed in substantiating them; they were put to the test in the county of Dablin, and they were not more successful; they were again tried in the county of Mo naghan, but they did not . succeed ; in none of these in stances could they prove one of their charee.i. They were publicly challenged to prove what they asserted 80 loudly—the existence of an undue influence on the part of the Retort Catholic clergy ; but they feared to attempt it—they abandoned their clients, and, as the Honourable and reamed Gentleman would say, suffered judgment to gat by default.—Tlie Hon. alomher ought to recollect that a Protestant clergyman had said, "the curet of Cromwell was too good . _ for the Roma❑ Catholics." In explanation of this denun ciation, it was necessary to observe, that when Cromwell carried his victorious arms into Ireland, the Papists were driven across the Shannon, and the only alternative left them was the power of selection between " Hell or Con naNht." Soda was the " curse of Cromwell." Was it to lie expe,ted that in the l9th century a Protestant cler gyman should go up and say that " the curse of Cromwell was too good for the Roman 'Catholics ?" The parties who forwarded petitions like the present to the Legislature must have gone into the kennels of Dublin, the Shore ditches of the Irish metropolis, in search of the mass of bigotry and intolerance which they had brought forward. Air. O'NEILL believed that he was the naly attentive member of the county of Dublin election committee (a laugh); and was satisfied, from whit came to his know- ledge, the whole bench of Protestant bishops had not so much power over their flocks as was possessed by the humblest and lowest Roman Catholic curate over his fol- lower& Mr. G. DAWSON isaid, it was impossible to hear the ohservations made on both sides, while discussing this question, without feelings of the greatest pain and regret. If the question were to go on, and be made a subject of dis sension, as it hitherto had, when and where were we to find an end ? In what party of the country (he addressed him self more particularly to the Irish Gentlemen ix the [louse) could peace and tranquillity be obtained, so long as this master remained unsettled? The moat unhappy discords and animosities prevailed, every institution of the country, even the dearest rights of Englishmen, were vilified and abused in turn by the opponents and supporters of this question, as it suited their respective ends. The privilege ' of petitioning itself was objected to—the dearest blessings of our Constitution were represented as evils, all through party feeling. Who could sit quietly by and hear such pro positions asserted by those who supported or opposed the intended nieasures of relief, without feeling distressed at the course adopted, and perceiving the great injury done to the State by the protracted agitation of this question?— Who could hear the opinions passed upon the conduct of the clergy without a strong feeling of the mischief likely to ensue from such discussions? We heard the Protestant clergy abused for exerting themselves on this subject and assumiag a political character. We heard the priests ♦ili fied and abused for displaying their spiritual influence for secular purposes. How was all this to end ? What good could result from stating that the Roman Catholic priests had exerted their influence for the accomplishment of political ends? Ile believed it was notorious that they had done so : but as matters 110 W stood, could his Honourable Friend prevent them front so exerting the influence which they possessed over the minds of the people? Would not the epithets applied to Roman Catholic Pt iests provoke those individuals still further, and exaspe rate to a greater degree existing animosities? What pros pect of peace or tranquillity had we if such conduct were to be contimued, and if lion. Gentlemen, by their able and eloquent speeches, were to go on exasperating matters in this manner ? We now saw Ole mischiefs arising from tnaking a religious question a subject of debate; we saw the alai m, disorder, and ill-feeling which it created ; setting man against man, father against son, and brother against brother. That was the result of the discussion. Mr. LLOYD remarked, that much credit was not to be attached to the evidence of the generality of witnesses examined before Election Committees. They were not unfi equently perjured. Mr. MOORE considered himself justified in alluding to the alleged conduct of the Homan Catholic Priests, when presenting a petition, one of the prayers of which was for the disfranchisement of the Irish 40s. freeholders, on the ground of their being under the influence of the Catholic Clergy. He had endeavoured to allow in what manner that influence was exerted.—The petition was ordered to he printed. Mr. BANKE i presented a petition signed by 600 per sons, inhabitants of the parish of Sturrninstcr Newton, in the county of Dorset, against further concessions to the Catlndies.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. FYLF.II., in presenting a petition to the same effect from Covent-y, observed, that it was agreed to at a public meeting of the inhabitants of than asicient city, and had at tached to it 3,915 signatures. It was signed by a majo rity of the most respectable inhabitants. There was a counter-petition also respectably signed, but by only 905 persons. For himself, he could only say, ha woshi never consent to hare the great bulwarks of our Constitution iu Church and State rudely trampled down, and the Protest ant Church left naked and defenceles.i, to the attacks of its ambitions and darin . , 4 rival. Rlr. IL E. HEATHCOTE thought, if Ministers intro duced a mea=nre that would not endanger the safety of the Ff , taldiihed Chutch, that the major part ot the persons who had signed the petition just presented by his Hon. Colleague would willingly concur in it. He said this pertl from whet he knew of the spirit that actuated his c onstituents, and partly from the artifices that were resorted to in order to procure signatures to the petition. Parties were canvassed as at an election, for their sentiments and signatures, and a bulletin of the two petitions was re,;u lady p u blished, like the state of the poll. The close of t h e poll was thus announced—" Signatures against Popery, 3,915 ; for Popery, 905." A number of persons wh , si , zned the petition now presented did so in the belief that they were opposing the establishment of the Popish religion in this country. He would support a measure c alculated, as he conceived, to promote the hest interests of this Country, and presvrve our Constitution, as at pre sent established, in Church and State. Mr. FYLER defen.ltd the canvass that had taken place to uncertain the stntiments of his constituents on this ruh ject.—The petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. LEGIT KECK rose to present a petition from the county of Leicester against further concessions to the Ro ?mut Catholic , . The petition was signod by 19,103 per sons, a;nong wham w ere t h e L or d Li eutenant o f th e county, the High Sheriff, two Earls, six Baronets, 30 County Magistrates, the Mayor and Corporation of the t own of 125 Clergym en , an d th e majority of shGentLees Gentry, Freeholders, and respectable inhabitants of the district. There was a smaller petition of a similar nature, with 101 signatures, which came too late to be embodied with the present. The majority of the inhabitants of the district were deeply alive on the subject of the petition; that the inhabitants were unanimous in their approbation of it he did not say ; no such thing could be expected. In deed, he understood there was a counter-petition, but how signed, or to what extent, he could not state. He was sorry to confess he had been deceived in the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers, and he spoke it with sincere regret ; he could not perceive that they were, in their present mode of acting, influenced by sentiments which ought to induce the Members of that House to repose in them their confi dence any longer. The general argument in favour of the innovation was, that it would tend to tranquillize Ireland. If it were possible to do so by even this concession, no man • in that House would more gladly make the experiment, but he could not for the soul of him induce himself to believe that any such result would follow. Certain letters, no doubt circulars, for he was no otherwise entitled to receive them than any other Member of that house, hail been sent to him penned by him, signed by the late agent of the Catholic Association, which contained doctrines that must undeceive every one, and show that nobody could calcul ite on the re nunciation of all political power and influence over Ireland on the part of the Pope, should the contemplated measure of concession to the Catholic party be carried by the Legis lature. Because that writer had volunteered the assurance that nothing short of unqualified, unmitigated political con cession would be accepted. This gratuitous avowal, by an authorized agent of the Catholics of Ireland, had gone a great way to convince him, and he was convinced further of the possibility of its being perfectly consistent with truth from reading a lately published " Memoir of the Duke de Rovigo," wherein it was proved, that the power and political influence of the Pope was most effectively op posed to the measures of even Buonaparte himself, at the very period when the Roman Pontiff was carried into France as his prisoner. As long us he felt that this might be again the case—as long as he had their own assurances for it, that no concession, except political concession on the broadest principle, unreserved and unqualified, would satisfy the Catholics of Ireland, he must be allowed to act in ac cordance with his own sentiments and the dictates of pro dence.—( Hear. ) Mr. OTWAY CAVE—It is a little extraordinary if the county of Leicester, and the town of Leicester, are as adverse as they are represented to Catholic Emancipation, that no public meeting has been held to declare the senti ments of either town or county.—(Hear.)—There have been four public meetings held from time to time of the contrary tendency, and those meetings were unanimous in favour of concession. —(Hear.)—Great pains were taken to get up the present petition, and it, no doubt, was res pectably and numerously signed, but the promoters of it did not venture to trust it before an assembly of the free holders of the county.—(llear.)—With regard to the opi nions which the Hon. Gentlemen has avoNed respecting his Majesty's Government, I must sly I beerd them with surprise and astonishment. I can say, indeed, I have the proof in my possession that scarcely twelve months ago, when a Noble Peer, now in the other House (Lord Gods rich), WB5 at the head of the Administration, the Hon. Gentleman felt no such qualms of conscience in giving iu his adhesion, inasmuch as he made a request of that Go vernmeet which was considered as tantamount to an obli gation to support that Administration.—(Hear, hear.) — I am quite willing, if neeessary, to prove.—(Hear, and question.)—At least I must express my surprise at the extreme horror, terror, and fears of Popery, now as-owed, when I do not recollect that any such horror was expressed when a Catholic advocate was at the head of his Mejeety's Government.—(Hear.) Mr. LEGH KECK, on bringing up the petition, oh served he was certainly surprised at what he had just heard. He was at first at a loss to know to what the Hon. Member alluded when he spoke of an appointment which had been solicited by.Jaim for a friend. At length he had recollected something about an application which he once casually made in favour of a person, he really could not recollect his name,—(.‘ Gregory, Gregory," interrupted Mr. 0. Cave.)—Yes, it was in favour of a Mr. Gregory, for whoes he had eppl'ed for a situation under the stamp office.—(Hear.)—Now really of this person he knew very little, and was no more connected with hint than the Member next to him ; but suffice it to say, he had been recommended by him to that Noble Lord as a worthy person strongly recommended for that situation. Upon his honour as a gentleman, he had used no other argument ; and so far from making this appointment a point with the Minister, he had said that if it were only to be obtained through a representation that it was expected as a personal favour to himself, this Mr. Gregory never could expect to get it, for he (Mr. L. Keck) would not accept it. (Hear.) There was another error of which he wished to disabuse the Hon. Member ; for lie was a very unfortunate man in this respect, and often called on to make use of a col ice tion of this kind, however unpalatable it might prove.— Now, this was worse than even being under an obligation to the Minister—namely, that the Honourable Member had taken it into his head that he (Mr. Legh Keck) was under an obligation to the Honourable Member himself (Mr. 0. Cave.—" I said no such thing.") He would ap peal to the chair whether is was not in its recollection that on a firmer occasion he had said that the magistrates of the county of Leicester had not removed sufficiently soon as they ought to have done, under the concurrent jurisdic tion act, the prisoners to the county gaol, whereby an un necessary expense was incurred by his constituents. Now, this was a misrepreeentation, and he so explained it. Pos sibly that Hon. Alember thought it hard, but he had not any intention to press it unkindly. Of his old friends be might be weary; he had known hint from infancy, and therefore could not be dispeeed to prejudice that Hon. Member. He would, however, say, and it was really now drawn from hint by that Hon. Member's conduct, that he sincerely wished he might find even one friend amongst those he had joined like any of the many he had abandoned. Mr. OTWAY CAVE was p•rfectly unconscious, alter all that had been said, of any extraordinary kindness ex hibited by the Hon. Member personally to himself. The petition was read and ordered to be printed ; as was also a similar ene from Yarborough, presented by Mr. UGH KECK. • • Similar petitions were presented by Mr. KEMP from Lewes; by Mr. JOHN Woon from Wallington, and the Protestant Dissenters of Chorley in Lancashire; by Admi ral EVANS from Kiltevea and Croome, in the county of Limerick ; from Clonmore, in the county of Carlow ; and law petitions by Mr. Concert from different chapels in Brighton and the neighbourhosel. Mr. H. HOWARD presented a petition from the inha bitants and visitants of Worthing, in favour of the mea sure of concession to the Catholics, which, he conceived, would be a satisfactory answer to all those who contended there was an unanimous feeling of hostility to concessions in the inhabitants of Susses. Mr. ALEX. DAWSON presented 31 petitions from Drogheda ; from Ardee, Killelee, and other places in Ireland, and Macclesfield, in Cheshire, in favour of concessions ; also a petition from Tullyallen against the vestry acts.—Ordered to be printed. Captain GUST presented a petition from Whalley, in Lanceishire, and another front Suffolk, against Catholic emancipation. Mr. DUNCOMBE presented 28 petitions from York, Sh e ffield, notley, Stockton, Weatherby, and other places in Yorkshire, against further concession. In reply to a question from the Hon. Member, the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in the absence of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel), said, that on Thursday his Right Hon. - Friend intended to submit a motion calculated to give effect to the recommendation contained in his Ma jesty's most gracious Speech relative to the disabilities of his Roman Catholic subjects. The notice had not been in the usual way inserted in the orders, because his Right lion. Friend had not the opportunity to insert it, as he was not regularly returned to Parliament:untii this day.— Petitions ordered to be printed. Lord CASTLEREAGH presented a petition from Long Island. in Downshire, in favour of concession; also peti tions from Swords,;against the sub-letting act and the vestry act.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. 11. TREVOR presented petitions from Bangor, in Carnarvonshire, and other 'deco; in Wales, against further conceesien.—Olderlll ho he printed. Mr. SLANEY gave notice that he should, after Easter, introduce a Illotion on the subject of the burden's and re strictions on brewing, and the supply of malt liquors ler the middle and lower orders of society. He also should move foe returns of the sums of money levied and issued in the year ending tie 25th of March, 1818, tOr the ser vice of the poor of this country, and rite number of re movals in England and Wales during the same period. Mr. 0. CAVE presented a petition from Leicester in favour of the Catholic Claims. The Hon. Member stated that the petition had 5,000 signatures, which it had re• ceived in one day and a half. Its prayer was leased on the principles—in their widest and best sense—of civil and re ligious liberty ; and he trusted the day was not far distant when such principle.; would need no advocate in a British Legislature. lie hoped shortly to he able to congratulate the petitioners on the success of their prayer, and that he might see Mr. O'Connell and other Catholics in their places in that liouee. Sir C. HASTINGS begged leave to protest against the petition jest presented by his Hon. Colleague being r eceived as the expression of the sentiments of the pe vl e of Lei cester, or even of the persons front whom the petition was alleged to have emanated, on the Catholic claims. He was ready to prove, at the bat of the Meuse, that many of those signatures letd been surreptitiously Obtained—that some of them were actual forgeries, and some of them of persons who never sass , the petition.—(Hear, hear.), Mr. 0. CAVE stated, in reply to his Hon. Colleagues that he had received the petition from a gentle4i r Of the highest respectability, who would be incapable orkanetion ing such n mode of obtaining signatures. Unless, there fore, his lion. Colleague would take it upon hiMself to state that hie allegations were founded on his own personal knowledge of the fact, and not upon hearsay informations he must object to more credence being given by the Hood to his Hon. Colleague's assertions, than to his (Sle. G. Cave's) counter-assertion, as both were equally founded On private communications. i Sir C. HASTINGS said, his information would enable him to prove his allegation* at the bar of the House if ne ' cessary. Mr. 0. CAVE was ready to give the names or the got' tlerncn from whoko he had derived his information cog. cern-ing the petition, if his Hon. Colleague would also state the names of his informants.—(llear, hear.) —He must say, in justice to his (Mr. 0. Cave's) informants, that in point of fortune, intellect, and character, they were to the full as respectable as his lion. Colleague was ree ported to be.—(Hear and order.) • Sir J. SEBRIGHT submitted it to the gond sense of the House, whether it should permit its time to be takes up with such an unsatisfactory discussion as that thee under its notice.—(Bear, hear.) Mr. HUME was unwilling to trespass on the time of the House. (A laugh.) lion. Members might laughs but he bad been in that House since one o'clock, and had not opened his mouth before. (Hear, and laughter.) With respect to the statements made by the lion. Baronet (Sir C. Hastings) concerning the petition just presented by his Hon. Friend, he thought it imperative on the Hon. Baronet to substantiate his charge at once, by either giying the names of his informants, or by stating his pet. - sone! knowledge of the facts he had asserted.—(Hear.) Sir C. BURRELL contended, that the Hon. Baronet had no right to state the names of the gentlemen to whom he was indebted for the information which he had stated to the House. Sir C. HASTINGS concurred with the lion. Baronet, and therefore felt himself bound not to state the names of his informants. The Hon. Member for Aberdeen had mistaken bins if he supposed that he (Sir C. )laving') meant to implicate or mix up his Hon. Colleague with the circumstances which he had felt it to be his duty to state concerning the petition just presented to the House.. He did not believe that his Hon. Colleague was acquainted with those circumstances, and therefore could not have in?. ',heated him in them. Mr. A. BARING considered the charge made by the Hon. Baronet to be of so serious a nature, that the Hon. Baronet was bound to make it good, by at once stating the names of those persons upon whom a forgery had been committed. Sir C. HASTINGS had a list at home of the forged signatures, the exact number of which he did not then re• collect. Till he . 11,01 consulted that list, he could only sprak of three na►ues positively A 5 forgeries,--namely , those of Cooke, Sitin, and Pinder. Alderman NVAITHAIAN thought it will dne to the House by the Hon. Baronet to explain all the circum stmees connected with those names, in order that the Hausa might be able to jude, whether accident or design was the cause of their signatures not being fairly annexed to the petition. Mr. 0. CAVE was then enibled to positively assert that his Hen. Colleague 'wax incorrect, so far as the name of Air. Cooke was concerned ; for he (Mr. CI ye) had a letter from that gentlemAn. in which he ratA, that he not oar signed the petition himself, hut would he responsible for the, respectability and authenticity '1 the other signatures.--" (Cheers)—He could not then take it upon himself to also_ deny the correctness of his Hun. Colleague's wertion re specting the other two nun,. . „ The Hon. Gentleman then presented petitions from Nenagh, Tipperary, Cashel, and eight other places in Ireland, for Catholic Ennancipltion.—Ordered to ha printed. Lord G. SOMERSET presented a petition from Cher stow against the Catholic Claims.—To tie printed. Mr. PROBY presented two petitions from Wick-- low, in favour of Catholic Emancipation.—To be printed- Alderman WAITHMAN presented a similar petition from the Unitarian Protestant Dissenters of Carter-lane► in the city of London.—To be printed. Lord HOTHAM presented a petition from Leominster , against concession to the Catholics. The petition, the Noble Lord stated, had 700 signatures, which it had re ceived in three days, and included six-sevenths of the male population of that borough. It was the first concerning Carbolic Emancipation that had ever conic from Leo' minster. His own views agreed with those of the peti tionerxt and he regretted that he could not conscientiousli vote with lie Right Him. Friend (Mr. Peel), with whom.' on all other occasions, it was his good fortune to beta e-incurred. Lord UXBRIDGE presented a petition from Denning. in Perthshire, against the Catholic Claims,—To be printed. LUNATIC ASYLUMS. Lord G. SOMERSE C obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act 9 Geo. IV. c. 41, relative to the care and treatment of insane peraonsin England. PRIVATE LIGHTHOUSES. Mr. HUME moved for sever ii returns relating to the, lighthouses now held by private individuals, the natur e ` and date of the leases under which they are held, together. with copies of the correspondence between the That'll , the Trinity-house, and those individuals, respecting then'', As he understood it was not intended by the Chancellor 0 1 the Exchequer to oppose the motion, he would postpon e the discussion of them to a future occasion. Mr. HOME DIIIPM3IOND ra,ved for leave to brill in a Bill to render more easy the recovery of small debts in the. Sheriff's Court in Scotland ; which, after • a rev" words front Mr. Heats, in commendation of the Bid, - Was. granted. Sir A. GRANT brought up the report of the Colt:- 13 mittee on Ways and Means, which was read, and a ' l ' ordered to be brought in. Sir A. GRANT brought up the report of tha Cx° n " mittee of Supply on the Ordnance Estimates, which wer e agreed to. On the motion of Mr. POTTER APQuEEN, the Hous e resolved itself into a Committee on the Settlement by air ing Bill. The report, after some observations from Sir J. G" ' HAM, Mr. SLANMY, and Mr. 111‘QUEEY, was ordered to be considered on the £7th ; the Bill in the meantime to h e printed. CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION. Mr. DAWSON, on behalf of Mr. Peel, gave notice , that on Thursday next the Right Hon. Secretary vr otthl move, that that part of his M a j es ty' s Sp rec h s hould b e , taken into consideration which relat e d to th e r e moval 0 ' civil disabilities in Ireland. Mr. Alderman WOOD brought in a Bill f or a mending the Acts relating to the approashea to Lond o n Bridget which was read a first time. After the other orders of the day had been disposed of; the House adjourned at a Quarter to Eleven. LORD ANGLESEA. On Monday last a deputation waited on the Ma"' quis of Anglesea, to present the address of th e:, county of Meath. The deputation was composed of the Earl. 0 1 ', Darnley, the Earl of Bective, M.P., Sir Weil"' Somerville, M.t'., Lord Killeen, Mr. Corballis, and Mr. Murphy. Lord Bective read the address, to which the Mar" quis of Anglesea returned the following answer " I receive with heartfelt gratification the a ddress of the inhabitan's of the county of Meath. " Without undervaluing those testimonials of re" gard (indeed, I am incapable of doing so) w hich , cheered me in the exercise of the arduous duties'" which were assigned to me during my residence Ireland, it is impossible that 1 should not, in an especial degree, place a high value upon those that follow me to my retirement ; and the inhabitants of!/ the county of Meath may feel assured that, in their, recognition of my public services, I am furnishe l ;; with strong and additional grounds of satisfaction, I' may say of delight, that my name is connected Wi t" i t Irishmen and tie dearest interests of their country., " Most sincerely do I congratulate them upon 0 44 / happy compact of good will of which the inhabitall. o ! / of the county of Meath offer a striking example. " It is a precursor of more extended good, and 'l' trust the period is not distant when all party .4 10 /': tinctions shall cease—when those of religion, at leastf' may not be so considered, and all parties shall h*Vo united in support of the Throne, and in tl4.enjor 4 ment of that Constitution which is the glory ()fibs. cnintry." The Princess Augusta took an airing_ in hq' carriage yesterday, and visited her sister,. the Pritirer ; Og-' 7l phia, at her apartments in tae King's palace, at Kensington,