The Sun. — London, England, 1858-07-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ELOUSE OF LORDS.-....(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack M 5 o'clock. Lord BELPER presented petitions from Atherstone, Sherborne, Derby, Glossop, Thropiton, and Kirkby, in favour of the legalization of marriage with a deceased wife's sister. The Doke of RICHMOND present e I a petition from places in Aberdeen, against the fis,ion of the colleges as proposed in the Scotch Universities Bill. PRIVATE BUSIN On the motion of Lord REDESDALZ the Manchester South Junction and Altri ncham Railway (No. 2) ; the Warrington and Stockport Railway ; Limerick and Castle Connell Railway hills were read a second time. The Hesketh Marsh, North Yorkshire and Cleveland Rail way. London and North-ostern ElAilway (Addi and tional W o rks). St. Leonard's (WShoreditcb) Parish, Stockton and Middlesborough, and Yarns Water Bills, were read a third time and passed. THE EX-KING OF OIJDE. Th e Marquii of CLANRICARDE asked whether the statement by the President of the Board of Control in the Souse of Commons, that the ex-King of Oude was now a prisoner in Fort William, and was about to be broucbt to trial, was correctly stated. Earl DERBY said the answer given in the other house to the question was not altogether incorrectly re ported. The King of °ult., a prisoner of the East ladia Company, was now confined at Calcut'a, under suspicion of having promoted the revolt. Upon the result of the investigation—which would be a more correct term than criminal trial—as to how tar he might be implicated in the revelf . , would depend the nature of the measures to be adopted against him. CHESTER AND HOLYHEAD RAILWAY. facilities of continunicAtion which now existed between this country and India. He would therefore keep the government of India out of Parliament as fir as possible. (Hear, hear.) But t'.is measure wouli really diminish the responsibility of the Indian Minister, because he would be fettered by the existence and by the control of his council. If the Secretary of State was outvoted in the Council on some question or plan of Indian government, he wouli, in stating the plan in the House of Commons, indicate to his friends that though he was moving the ~. This bill wag read a third time after a few words from Lora COLCHIMER, who said the three companies bad undertaken the contract for the conveyance of the wails to Dublin for a term of 14 years, and Lord REDEEMALE who said he was not altogether satisfied that the right4of the public had been sufficient'y protected by this bill, but as the noble lord the Postmaster-Gene ral had moved the third reading he did not ftel justified Plan, it was not his—that he was overruled in the Coun • cll. (Hear, bear.) Tne C)uncil might obj et to the Stcre• tary of State taking matters out of their cognisance. That had been said to him when at the Board of Con- trol ♦ery frequently ; and what was his answer —" I don't think so ; you are quite wrong." (Laughter.) There was civility on both Rider., and there was an end of it. But that would not be the case no - v with these gentle- men, who had their friends in Parliament, in the City, and everywhere. (Hear.) If this bill passed it would create that form of government which bad been con demned by all authorities on government—an imperittin in imperio. (Hear, hear) Though the members of the Council themselves might net sit in Parliament, there was nothing to prevent their sons, or sone-in-law, or fathers-in-law from doing so. (A laugh.) For the 15 who could not sit there might be 30 nearly connected with them who could sit in Parliament, and could do the work better than themselves. The more they consi dered this scheme the less likely did it appear to hold together. He did not say that he was sure it would fail. He did not want it to fail. It wag adangerous thing to prophesy about what was to happen to-morrow or at home. It was a safer course to predict what was to happen in 100 years, or in Armenia or some distant part of the world. (A laugh.) All he said was that if the measure did succeed, it would succeed against the ex perience of all the men be had ever heard talk on the subject, against the experience of the country, and against their lordship? experience with reference to other matters. It was said, "Would you trust one man with the Government of 180 millions of people ?" Why, they trusted the noble earl (Derby) with the Govern ment of a great many more than 130 millions ; one man was responsible for the government of the whole empire. (Hear, hear.) He selected his Cabinet on that prin ciple ;so would the Secretary of State for India. It there was anything which the Prime Minister could not settle offhand the Cabinet would be assembled. He (Lord Broughton) would rather trust one intelligent, honest man with the management of affairs with which be had been previously properly acquainted,. than be would trust half-a-dosen men. The Secretary of Sate woad have no difficulty in getting a staff about him. He might easily get a sufficient number to advise and assist, not to thwart him, but to give opinions ; in this way, if a proper choice were made of the secretary, the government of India would be conducted as well as human prudence could devise. (Hear, hear.) The notion of the necessity of a Council had arisen from the functions of the old Court cf Directors. Did their lord ships think-the despatches were written by the Court of Directors or any of them 1 When he was at the B )ard of Control they always recognised certain hands, and knew, or thought they knew, who wrote each of the despatches, as well as if they had stood behind the gen tleman's chair while he was doing it. It was one of the great merits of the Court of Directors which ought to be recorded and never forgotten, that they chose good ser• rants and wise servants. (Hear, hear.) Did their lord ships ever know a foolish person choose wise servants ? Never. The servants of the court were as good men as were ever found for the performance of their functions, and those men were available now. Mr. John Mill was alive—(hear s hear)—so were many others ; he mentioned Mr. Mill because he was a well known and distinguished man. (Hear.) There were others at the Board of Control whose assistance would be most valuable. Upon great questions of peace or war, the Secretary of State would of course summon his Cabinet, and take their opinions and advice. He would ask how matters were conducted at the Board of Ad miralty 1 He had been toid that the experiment had been tried of conduetiog all the business by a board in stead of by the first lord ; but when they met they fell asleep. Sometimes one man did not agree with the first lord, and threatened to talk him out. (Laughter.) There was such a thing, he believed, as the Treasury Board ; he should like to know bow often that board met. They might do seroccasionally ; but he was told that it was not a real, consultative, deliberative board. If the Treasury did not require a board, why should the Secre tary of India require one! Surely, if anybody needed others to share his responsibility, the master of the British dominions for the time being, the le-st Lord of the Treasury, must do so. It was certain that the Sscre tary of State for India riever would derive from such a council as the bill proposed any light or knowledge that he could not get from others, without the embarrassment of a deliberative council. He entreated the noble earl (Derby) to reconsider this question, if there was any chance of doing eo. It was perpetuating the worst part of the old East India Company. The proposed council would be like the phosaix, that "Soared and shined, another and the same." in opposing the measure. CON VOCATION. Lord REDESDALE moved for copies of the Acts of Convocation in the province of Canterbury at the session cf the 29th. of June, 1855, and 6th of Feb., 1857, so far as relates to any communication to be made to the C 'avocation of York, or the President of the same, to gether with the replies to such communication., or either of them. Also a copy of the Quen's writ to the Archbishop of York, directing the assembling of the Convocation of the province on the 10th of December lest. The Bishop of RIPON said he had been appointed by the prelates of the province of York to offer some explanation . on the subject to which the noble lord bad referred. He denied that any com munication had taken place between the prelates cf the two provinces between .Tune, 1855, and Feb. 1857. He bad no objection also t o the production of the Queen's writ, but he was at a loss to con ceive what object there was in view in obtaining its production, except that it was to raise the whole question as to how far the Archbishop of York was jus tified in the course he had persevered in with respect to the convocation at York. The Bishop of LONDON said the noble lord de manded papers that did not and never had existed. In the drawing up of the first part of the noble lord's mo • tion, although he did not believe such to be his intention, it appeared to cast a slur upon a right reverend prelate, who was pursuing his labours in a strictly correct man ner, and who had not departed in the slightest from numerous precedents which existed on the point. After a few words from the Bishops of Oxford, Carlisle, and Chichester, Lord REDESDALE withdrew his motion. REVISION OF THE LITURGY. Lord EMMY presented a petition from the laity in favour of a revision of the Liturgy. The Medical Practitioners Bill was read a second time. The Stipendiary Magistrates Bill was read a second time. The Oopybold Acts Amendment Bill was read a second time. The Titles to Land (Scotland) Bill, the- Copyright of Designs Bill, and the Four Courts (Dublin) Extension Bill were severally read a second time. The New General Post-office (Edinburgh) Bill went through committee. The Militia Ballots Suspension Bill was read a second time. GOVERNMENT OF INDIA. BILL. The house went into committee on this bill. On clause seven, which refers to the constitution o the Council, Lord BROUGHTON said that this clause was of the essence of the bill. He rejoiced at the abolition of the East India Company, and thought that the proposition to have a single Minister to administer the government of India would be a good substitute for the present sys tem. He collected from the speech of his noble friend last night, that a great change had taken place in his opinion, in reference 10 the appointment of a Council, and that he might modify this clause if he had to propose the scheme again to the house. The present form of home Government was no doubt liable to obj-ctions of se 'welt every man must be aware, on the ground ut delay, and differences of opinion, between the authorities of Cannon-row and Leadenhall-street. The shots they fired at each other, however. were sped from a distance, and were cooled by time. But when this new Council was .formed what would be the degree of antagonism—and -antagonism there must be if the Council was to be of any good—when they met under the same roof and at the same board, and bad to fire across the table ? (Laughter.) - Unless some means could be devised for making this Council, he would not say a little more peaceable, but at all events a little more practical, their lordships should not pass this clause. He was sure of that. He was op posed to acy Council at all ; but if be were for a Council it would not be for this Council, which was constructed in a manner that was calculated to ensure the greatest quantity of strife and difference of opinion. (Hear.) Some of the members were to be East Indian - ervants— some were to be chosen by the Crown, and some not. He did not see how the objection of the noble earl oppo site (E:lenborougb) was to be got rid of, when it pleased God to remove any of the members, and the Council had to be refreshed. The Secretary of Sore woul f probably be a person who entertained some general principles of government, such principles as were likely to be enter tained by a person reared amongA the institutions of this country. But when he proposed some scheme to the Council for the government of India, the member of the Council acquainted with Bengal would i ay, "This won't do at all for Bengal ; I know more about Bengal than you." The members who were acquainted with Ma tras and Bombay would say the same, and there would be the Secretary of State alone in the midst of these gen• thonen, every one of whom would be better acquainted with India . than himself. (H ear , h ear. ) Th ose w h o were acquamted with the system of Indian government must be aware that the great vice of Indian servants was that of making what were called rninutes—minuses which it took hours to read and- days to write. (Laughter.) Sup pose a member of the Connell to be in a minority, he would record his objeotions in a minute. He would not be satisfied, and would proceed thus. He would seek out some member of Parliament and say, " I am in a mino rity in the CJancil on such a question ; most good men are—(laughter)—the case is a good one ; I can kelp you if you like to make a speech. (Laughter.) I wrote a minute of My objections ; Mr. S9-snd-so says it is one of the cleverest he ever read." (Laughter.) The member was ambitions—most members used to be, he did not know if they were new—(laughter)—and be replied, " Wi.l you let me have it." The member of Council sap " No,• I cannot ; but it is a clever document, take my word f a it ; ask in your place for a copy." Toe Govern ment of the day would be obliged to say, " We cannot refuse this minute. Under a P ar li amen t ar y Government the opinions of the minority should be known at least, if not acted upon." Tne document was produced, it was read, it was cl ver ; it was submitted to Sir J. Graham, or some of those clever fellows in the house— (laughter) —and be was asked what was to be done, fur the case The Earl of DERBY said tbak the noble lord had made a very amusing speech, and if it had been made on the second reading of the bill ne owe would have said a word against it. Lord BROUG EITON —This clause is about the council? The Earl of DERRY—Bat they were now discussaing the bill clause by clause, and it was contrary to all order, ',pm a clause which constituted the tiottacil,, to discuss everything relating to that council. This was entirely be si le the question, which was whether a council should be established for the advice and assistance of the Secretary of State. The noble lord had said that because the Trea sury Board acd the Board of Admiralty did not meet as boards, there was no reason why the Secretary of State for India should have a Council to assist him. But the Council proposed was upon a totally different footing from any of the boards ref,rred to. The Secretary of State would allot the business among the different mem bers in such a manner as be thought most convenient for the public service. (Hear, hear.) Special power was ' given to the Secretary of State to divide the Council into committees for the despatch of business, and to obtain the assi Lance and advice of the most competent persons. The questions of how the Council was to be constituted, what should be its duties and so on, would be discussed on the different clauses; but the question raised by the noble lord was—should the Secretary of State have a Council at all. It was true this was a main principle of the bill ; and if upon one question more than another there had been a universal agreement in both houses, it was this—that it was expedient that the Minister for India should be as si,ted by such a Council to a certain d-gree.-The bill of the late Government proposed a Council ef eight mem bers, to set ve for 10 years. By the bill introduced when Lord Ellenborough was at the B card of Control the Coun cil was to consist of 18 members; they would of coulee have divided their duties. But that the Secretary of State for India should have the means of resorting, net unoffi cially but officially, to persons of great experience and knowledge on all subjects connected with India was a principle that had been adapted and laid down by almost all me 1 of any eminence who bad been called on to dis cuss the question. He wholly denies! that this Council was a recurrence, or anything like a recurrence, to the double Government which had existed under the former system. The evil of that double Government was this— that there were two separate and entirely distinct au' ho cities, each of which ficpre , sed an independent opinion --that these authorities wore frequently brought into coefict or collision—and that it required voluminous correspondence and a great deal ef time to settle their differences and obtain their entire concurrence and con sent. Here there was no such doable Government, no such conflict of authorities. The Council was not an authority adverse to or competing with the Secretary ef State. Its duties were precise and limited ; they were limited, ex cspt in particular cases, to giving advice and opinion to the Secretary of State ; and that advice and opinion he was at liberty to adopt or reject as he thought fit. There was nothing to fetter or diminish in the slightest degree the responsibility which he owed to Parliament, He agreed with the nob'e lord that it was desirable in prac tice that the aff sirs of India should, as far as pos-ibte, be withdra en from the we' kly and daily discussion in Parliament; and the most probable way of doing that was to surround the S-cretary of State with a body of persons of eminence and distinction, of knowledge and experience, to whom with reeard to every question he h a d it in his power to apply, not for authority, but for opinion perfect and that advice and opinion would r knowledge-of-ilie subject. Tile advice v i i i c i e fTi and w i twith a principle of council or no council was all that was in volved in this clause ; upon that principle rested the main provieions of the bill ; and he trusted that their lordships would not reject a clause which had been almest unanimously agreed to by the other house, and a principle which had the sanction of every authority. The Duke of SOMERSET said they might properly discuss the question of council or no ceuncil on the clause now before the committee. He denied that the scheme of a council bed been approved by all partied- In the other house there had been every sort of opinio n as to the constitution t,f the council—how they were to be anpeinted—how long they were to . serve—and what should be their duties. (Hear.) It was proposed that the council should meet weekly, or when summoned by the Secretary of State, though he believed the latter power was now taken away. It was doubtful whether they would see any of the despatches that came from India, and the Secretary of State might avoid basing anything to do with them. He might give an order which might lead to war ; but to obtain money he must go to his council, and bow could he obtain money with out telling them what it was for t (Hear.) The remit of dividing the council into committees would f r uf uld , bietohrnaio that each c antnittee would be continually din respecting its own department, as they might be called on to advise at the next meeting of the council. He ob jected to the provision which debarred tho members of the Council from sitting in Parliament. Their presence there might be desirable on those occasions when some ' independent member of the other house took up with great zeal the cause of some native prince. Suppo-e that Sir Colin Campbell returned, as he hoped he wouid,and made a statement as to the organisation of the Indian arm, what weight would the members of the C trticil—a number of old men—have against such an authority as that I He thought it would be a great convenierce if they could get rid of this Council, and all the clauses connected with it, (Hear, hear) The House of Com mons had passed the bill with the idea that they were making the Secretary cf State responsible ; but when et, the oe e r we a l; i essence n w u cl a ei n ( t t, e hf det there ee o ben billy d, h i wv e ii dt w he a do s u c tn o l n a n t r a o g l el divided e m d e b or y te,s t p h wo e nh C si 7 0 bh u a n i,tv c ya i l 5, .. The bill would work with much greater vigour if all tne clauses relating to the Council were struck out. He would therefore move that this clause should be omitted from the bill. R iti l t . u E tio a n ls o o f w o h he a 'e t e w te e d re t c o al t le h d e , c i l u lt n e eic E e a g r o l ec o i f 4 A y L to ß i E ts ls c l o A. n „ Ow Indiana." These were men who had always, in and out of Parliament, declared that system to be perfection which hid exploded iu rebellion. He did not was a bard one. He said, " Make a motion, and we will see what we can do." A meeting of some 20 members took pLaceeein some- house or other--it might be the Crown and Anchor; the posts were assigned to eacl3 " you are to bring forward this paint, you this, and so on. Do not abuse the Governor-General, for he is my friend ; but abuse the S.cretary of State ; he is an un fair man, and he is not of our party ; abuse him." (Laughter.) Ha could assure their lordship he was not exaggerating what was a very possible case. He agreed with the noble lord opposite that this might not occur in the first Council. The first members would probably meet with general approbation, and things would go on smoothly for a time ; but that would not continue—it could not continue. Did any one ever find 15 men in a room even at a party of pleasure svho agreed altogether? (Laughter.) If out of the 15 there was one disagreeable man be would spoil the whole party. (Laughter.) That happened in matters of amusement. But what might be the consequence if, when matters of government, when the best interests of the country were depending on the result? What was vulgarly hut well called an " ill-condi tioned" fellow got amongst the par ty.r (Hear.) The conse quencs would probably be this. One member of the Council would.say, " You cannot agree with use, 1 can not agree with you; no one can agree with that fellow, let us band over the decision to the Secretary of State." That must be the only mode of settlement, or nothing would be done, (Hear, hear.) These inconveniences were so entirely felt by the framers of this bill that they had most judiciously deprived the Council of a great part of its power?, for they gave the Secretary of State power to act without the Council in some cases, and by the 25th clause they empowered him to act even against the Council. (Hear, hear.) That was wise and proper if there was to be a Council at all. The effects of a bad plan and a bad project might be got rid of by havi ng no project or plan at all. The great objection mad e to the existing system was what was calved its double govern ment. Now, there was no double goverrenent in the present system, unless a man riding on horseback, with au old woman behind him, might be called a double government. (Laughter ) The Earl of DERBY—Which was the old woman? Laughter.) Lord BROUGHTON—Nut the noble earl, certainly. (Laughter.) This so called double government was no double government. But the double government was brought back by this bill. One of the great inconve niences r f the present system was said to be thie, that Parliamentcould not interfere as much in the government of India as it could ;f there was a single responsible Minister. Now, be thought that one of the great ad vantages of the present syeteru was that it prevented the perpetual introduction of Indian questions in Parliament. ( R ev ) Ihat wee hie decided opinion. They could not go vern India on thebe terms, espeoially Rich theilicreased altogether share in the panegyrics which had been be stowed upon the Board of Directors ; but, at all events, they - had not selected old Indians for their servants. Many years ago Lord Buckinghamshire found the direc tors could not write their deqpatches, and it was at his su,lgestion that the "examiners" had been appoiet-d, by whom the government of India had ever since been vir tuelly carried on. (Hear, hear.) What wag an old Indian? It was a person who had a great knowledge of a very small locality, who knew very little about the rest of India, and was altogether ignorant of European politico. It was the very want of the Europern element in the , government of India which had led to our recent disas ters. The old Indians by whom affairs were conducted had never been 50 miles out of Calcutta in their lives, and they thought the rest of the Indian people were like those docile creatures by whom they were surrounded. They had, therefore, madly attempted to strip the pro prietors of the north-western provinces of their lands, and the country had had to deplore the result. For this reason alone he (the noble eari) felt that he was fully entitled to vote for he amendment. (Cheers.) Lord MONTEAGLE objected greatly to the exclusion of members of the council from Parliament. As uming, what was certainly a great deal to allow, tbat the couc eill re would all be the best men tbat could be selected, the very success which attended the efforts to create a good council would deprive Parliament of the 15 men who would best be able to guide its deliberations on In dian affairs. (Hear.) Noble lords near him seemed to be so overcome by the difficul iee they had to encounter, that they had actually been driven to recommend a sys tem of despotism for the government of our Eastern em pire. The house must not suppose that the use of a board was merely to sit as a body. The business might be distributed amongst its members, and in that manner it might be admirably performed. (Hear,) Besides, they must remember that they were not dealing with a department, but with a g reat empire ; and the compari sons which had been ma de had, therefore, no foundation at all. What was now proposed by the noble duke was, that one official should unite in his own person the func tions of a financial, a war, a domestic, and a f .reign minister. The idea seemed to him (Lord Monteagle) to be absurd. (Hear.) The noble earl had talked dispa ragingly of old Indians ; but what was the complaint they made against the company in 183? Why, that it did not elect old Indians for its directors ; but chose to confer the honour upon city magnates, great bankers, and gentlemen of that description. What would their lordships not give to have an old Indian like Mount , stuart Elpbinatone, or - the late Sir Thomas Monroe amongst them that evening I Let them, therefore, hear no more of the cry against old Indians. (Hear.) He confessed that lie felt some alarm when he heard this new doctrine of government by a Secretary of State. He was for a council—a council partly nominated and partly chosen by election. He saw otherwise no resource but a despotism, and the idea of a despotism drove him to Parliamentary interference, which he was satisfied was fraught with still greater dangers to the peace and secu rity of our Indian possessions. (Hear.) Lord WODEHOUSE said the bill was neither more nor lees than a co nprotnise between those who were for a controlling Council and those who were for an absolute Minister. The clauses of the bill negatived each other on that principle. The practical result would be a bar renness of power, and that would lead to a want of power, - which practically was the greatest evil - that should be guarded against. In that counterbalance of power they would neither have an efficient council nor an efficient profession, from which any gain or profit may arise." The Earl of HARDWICKE supported the clause as it stood. After a short conversation the house divided, when there appeared— For the amendment• 35 Against GO Majority —2s The clause was then agreed to, as were the clauses up to 20. Clauses 18 to 26 were agreed to with some verbal amendments, On clause 27, which relates to the sending out of secret despat chee, The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that it bad always been the practice for these despatches to be com municated to three persons—the chairman of the lona of Directors, the deputy-chairman, and one other direc tor. He thought they ought at least to be communicated to one person. The Earl of DERBY promised that an alteration to this effect should be made in bringing up the report. Earl GRANVILLE did not think that any further check was necessary, as on all important matters the Indian Minster would c)mmunicate with the Cabinet of which he was a member. The Duke of NEWCASTLE was in favour of the al teration proposed by Lord Ellenborough. The clause was agreed to, as was clause 28. Oa clause 29, Earl GRANVILLE suggested that the Governor- General should retain the power of appointing his own C mncil. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that what the Governor-General wanted was a representative Council. The Earl of DERBY promised to reconsider the question. Clauses 30 and 31 were agreed to. On clause 33, The Bishop of OXFORD moved a proviso vesting the right of nominating to the chaplaincies in India in future alternately in the Secretary of State for India audio the bishop of the diocese in which the chaplaincy is situated. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH bore testimony to the excellence of the clergy in India ; and he saw no reaeon for altering the p-esent system, for he could place suite as much confidence in a Secretary of State as in the Board of Directors. The Bishop of. LONDON supported the amendment. In point of fact the clause as it stood created the greatest possible change, for it transferred to the Secretary of State the appointment of all the chaplains, whereas the Government had never yet had any such patronage. While anxious to respect the rights of our heathen fel low-subjects, he should be glad to see some recognition of our own religion in the present bill. The Earl of DERBY thought it would be better to preserve the present status of the Indian chaplains, :namely, as mere stipendiaries of the Indian CI , vernment. great inconvenience had been felt, both at the Foreign and the Ooibnia'l , ofilte;'•from distant chaplains being de pendent on their bishop, and from there being thus a conflict of authorities . The Bishop of OXFORD, in reply, said that in the cases referred to the chaplains were dependent not on bishops upon the spot, but on a bishop in this country. He did not see, therefore, that there was any ground for the argument of the noble earl. The amendment was nevertheless not persisted in, and the clause was agreed to. The CHAIRMIN then reported progress, two or three bills were advanced a stage, and their lordships rose at half past 12. Minister. Lord STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFE was not pre pared to vote for the exclusion of the Council altogether, nor was he, on the other hand, prepared to go to the full extent of the bill. With respect to the number of the Council, he thought-that a Council of five or seven would be much more effective than so large a number. Lord ASHBURTON said that the want of security that any particular line of policy on the part of the East India Company would be permanently pursued had ope rated very injuriously on the minds of the native princes and the people of India. As the Government had en. croached continually upon the powers of the East India Company, the cerapany had set themselves with all their hearts to secure the services of the ablest men to aid them in maintaining their position, and hence the dis tinguished ability by which the servants of the India Company had almost uniformly been characterised ; but be contended that when this new Council wasestablished a new department would be created differing in no ma terial point from the Home-office or any other public department, and the abilities of its officials, conse quently, could not reasonably be expected, under the circumstances, to be superior to the abilities of the offi cials of the Home-office, or of any other public depart ment now in existence. Lord BEEPER, in defence of the Council, said it would be monstrous to entrust the, whole affairs of India to the Secretary of State — a single member who knew little or nothing practically of Indian affa'rs. He ap proved of there being a Council whom the Secretary was bound to consult—men of intelligence and of practical experience in India—but he would leave the ultimate deci sion of matters in the bands of the Minister, checked by his responsibility to Parliament, and by the record of the minutes of members of the council who dissented from his acts. Earl GRANVILLE made some explanations in rela tion to a former speech. He stated that although he. , personally objected to a council, he would nevertheless advise his noble friend not to press this matter to is divi sion, and he would also advise the Government not. to • send back the bill to the other house without the oeun cil, as it was a point of the-highest importance that. thee bill should be passed this session. The Marquis of CLANRICARNE said he did not doubt that the Secretary of State would be provided with an efficient staff, but he thought the Government had not sufficiently informed the house as to what they ex pected would be the result of the working of the arrange ment. He could not expect that it would long last on its present footing, but in order to make it last a little longer he should wove to insert in the clause the words "not wore than," which would make 15 the maximum, and allow the council to be reduced as vacancies occurred. The Ferri of DERBY said that the number of 15 had been proposed by the Government simply because they were assured that that was the smallest number that could execute the functions that would devolve upon it. If the amendment of the noble marquis were adopted it would utterly prevent any subsequent modification of the arrangement. It would be far better to leave the mat ter to the future deliberation of Parliament, for which there was a provision, and he hoped the noble marquis would not persist in an opposition which was really directed as much against the measure of the Govern ment of which he was a member as against that under consideration. The amendment was negatived without a division, and the clause agreed to. On clause 8, relative to the nominative members, The Earl of ELLENBOROUGII observed that the average age of the members of the council weull be 60 years, making 900 years for the whole. He did not see why men five or six years older should not be elected by them, as the past directors of the company would be. Ile heard there was an advantage in putting wine in a cellar for five or siz ye?rs, but he did not think the principle applied in the case of an old man being put on the shelf, with a view to hie returning to business. The clause was agreed to. 0' clause I, Tae E trl of DERBY said he should be willing to in troduce a clause into the bill for the purpose of main taining the balance between the elective and nominative member.. The clause was agreed to. On clause 10, The Rid Of SHAFTESBURY moved an amendment to the effect that the members of council should not only be men of Indian experience, but that they should have returned from India during the last ten years. The clause was agreed to. Oa clause 11 beine proposed, The Eirl of ECIANBOROUGH objected to the clause, as it appointed gentlemen to the Council for life. The effect of this would be, that not one of these gentle men would resign at the end of ten years, at which period the members of the Council were entitled to pensions, for the purpose of inducing any one of them who had be come incapable to resign, but he was sure that not one of them would resign at the end of ten veers. (A laugh.) He therefore suggested that the periOd should be five years when those gentlemen could re, ign. The Earl of DERBY sail it was usual to appoint gentlemen to political offices during good behaviour, and he thought that, practically, a gentleman entitled to—re sign upon a pension at the end of a given period would be induced to do so if he f 'tend himself incapable for the performance of his duties. Earl GRANVILLE supported the suggestion of the noble earl opposite (*he Earl of Ellephorough). After a few words from Lord DENuaN, the clause was agreed to. On clause 12 being proposed, The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said that if they passed this chime by. which persons who were to be appointed , members of the Council would be e*eluded from seats in , Parliament, they would practically exclude some of the most efficient persons from the Council. By it Lord Dalhousie, Sir C. Campbell —who no doubt would be raised to the peerage—and Ruch like persons, would he ineligible to seats at the Council. He begged, therefore, to propose that three of the members should be eligible to seats in Parliament. The Duke of NEWCASTLE hoped the noble earl a t the head of the Government would concede the princip'e of his noble friend's amendment, for if they did not they would shut out from the Council someof the very best men that could be selected for that body, as able and intelli gent men, after passing their lives in India, had a great desire upon their return home to be in Parliament. Why, then, should such persons be declared to be ineligible to sit on the Council to he formed under this ? The to a plarrignecripoluemVlll3etr,waonuildhe a r p ea p l i l y y t t o h o t u h g r e h e t w that ould al a l p t p h l e y mem bers of the Council ought to be eligible to seate in Per- After a few words from the Duke of MARL BOROUGM, The Earl of ELLEN BO 110 UGH expressed a hope that the noble earl at the head of the Government would adhere to the clause as it stood, and he believed that the proposed alteration would lead to great inconvenience. Earl GRANVILLE thought they ought to know whether the members of Council were to give up the whole of their time to the business of their office. Tae Earl of DERBY said the intention of the Govern , went was that these gentlemen should not be dillettanti members of the Council, but should give adequate ' time to their d u ti es , an d cons ider those duties to be the first and primary object. As to the clau s e in question, the question really was between absolute admission and absolute exclusion. It had been very fully discussed in the other house, and the argument which carried most weight was, that if those gentlemen were allowed to sit in Parliament, great facilities would be given for ministerial corruption. No limitation as to number was possible, and having, therefore, to choose HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YEATERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair shortty after 12 o'clock. PItIVATE BUSINESS. Davidson's Estate Bill was read a second time. The Lards' ai nendmmts to the following private bills ------ were considered and agreed to :—Birkenhead Improve ment Commissioners (Gas and Water) Bill ; Oxford, Worcester, and Wolverhampton Railway Bill, and Windsor Now R lad Bill. CORRUPT PRACTICES PREVENTION ACT ' . stating that between absolute admission and absolute exclusion, he I appeared at the bar of the house with eeterencie preferred the latter. gracious answer relative to an address w. Is November, The Earl cf CLARENDON wished to know whether , the discontintfance of the service on the 5 any member who at the time of his appointment or elec. ' the 314:0f January, and the 29th of May, tion migbt be en-4;10d in trading or banking would be 'it should receive the careful consideration v, 'bia its ins: obliged to give it up, ae persons appointed to under-secrc- portance demanded. . tarythies or sim•lar offiess were now compelled to do ? SUPERANNUATION BILL. ' • - The Earl of Derby replied they could not continua In reply to a question from Mr. WILSON, any business requiring a degree of personal attention The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUI IR said IA whieb would interfere with the duties of their office, bet declined to state the course he should purse a vvi..a re he could not admit that a man should be disqualified ference to this bill, as it must depend on tl se state of because he was an eminent merchant, or a great banker, public business. He fixed Tuesday next for I he motion or a sleeping partner in a great brewery. of the hon. and learned nsemb•r for Sheffield, relativeto The Earl of CL kRENDON said the same rule ought the Hudson's Bay Company, and the hon. o &ember for then to be applied to the offices he had mentioned. London, relative to the destruction of propel ty belong- The Earl of ELLENBO ROUGH thought that if they ing to British merchants in the Gulf of Both ilia during were to have a Council entirely devoted to their duties, I the late war. they ought to retain no interest which could possibly be THE BILLETING SYSTEM. affected by their official acts. (Hear, hear.) General CODR[NGTON asked the Sf iertntary of The Marquis of CLA.NRICA.RDE believed it was a State for War whether the Government inten,ded to take' fact that four million of supplies were now annually con- any steps for the purpose of carrying o utthe rec Emmen tracted for in London which could be more advantage- clarions of the select committee on the Billeting system ? ously obtained in Calcutta, but the object was to keep General PEEL said it was not their in tentiol Ito make up the City influence. any alteration this session. He would, howe vor, take The 'Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said the Council care to render the system as little incons'eniei it as pos would have constantly to decide questions affecting the sible during its continuance. interest of every man engaged in trade, and they ought THE TURKISH MEDALS. to be above all suspicion. Mr. OSBORNE inquired of the Secretary of State for Earl GRA.NTILLE considered that when the salary War when the medal protn'sed by the Turkic h Govern was so much increased, the members might fairly be went was likely to be distributed to the offices a and men called on to devote themselves exclusively to their office. who served in, the Crimean campaign ? If the objection of his noble friend was valid, what be- General - PEEL said the delay had arises 1 from the came of that portion of his noble friend's own plan which number. '4,000, that had to .be supplied. A. 9 soon as proposed to have representatives of five great cowmen- her Majesty's Government received them front Turkey, cial cities in the council ? they should be distributed without loss of time. The Duke of NEWCASTLE thought it would be best SLAVE TRADE. to have the members free from even the suspicion of. On the motion for adjournment till Monday, pecuniary advantage. Mr. HUTT gave notice that early next mission. he The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that the go- should submit a motion relative to the slave trade. vernment of India was essentially a government of re- DUBLIN METROPOLITAN POLIO s - cords as had been remarked by a noble lord opposite, Mr. COGAN moved for a copy of a l l letters a 5 .1,1 re who had been himself President of the Board of Control, ports of Colonel Brown and Mr. O'Ferrall to the ICieh Everything was reported home, and the documents Government in December and January last, in referenc..` passed through the various departments. He could to the organisation orthe Dublin Metropolitan Police. assure their lorddhips that if every member of the Council The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND en were to attend every day for four or five hours there tered into an explanation on the subject. He said no would be ample business for them t o d o . The great correspondence had passed between these parties and the difficulty was to have all the details and records before Government. They had only each sent in a report. He them which were necessary, in order to arrive at a sound thought it would be injury to the service to produce conclusion, them. (Here that portion of the ceiling fell in which is re- After some discussion, in which Mr. J. D. Fitzgerald, ferred to is another column.) Lord Naas, and Mr. P. O'Brien took part, the subject Earl GRANVILLE moved the insertion of the words dropped. "Nor bold or carry on any other business, trade, or ST. BERNARD'S REFORMATORY. _ . Mr. SPOONER asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he bed made any inquiry into a statement whiei appeared in the public papers, relative to a feast having been given to the convict chil dren in the St. Bernard's Rebrmatory, and what has been the answer to such inquiry; whether the Reforma tory at St. Bernard's receives public grants on account of such convicts ; whether other children not convicts are received at St. Bernard's • and if so, whether the convicts associate with such ch ildren ? If the Secretary of State will lay on the table of the house a return of the names of such convicts, where they were convicted, and whether the parents of such convicts have contributed towards the maintenance of their children in that Refor matory, and to what amount ? Mr. WALPOLE said there would be no objection to produce the return asked for. As soon as his attention was called to the feast accompanied with a dress ball, given to the children, that appeared in the public papers, he caused inquiries to be made, and the result was that an assurance had been given to him that such an oc currence should not be repeated. The Reformatory re ceived public grants, and children not criminals were in the Reformatory. The return would give the honourable member all the information he required. SALE OF POISONS BILL. Mr. WALPOLE announced his intention to with draw this bill this session. THE LADIES' GALLERY. Major EDWARDS moved that the temporary experi mental alteration in the central compartment of the ladies' gallery, with some immaterial modification, having been generally approved, a similar change should be made in the side compartments, and the whole permanently completed under the superintendence of Sir Charles Barry. The SPEAKER informed the gallant member he could not then move a resolution. Maier EDWARDS then put it in the shape of a ques tion. Mr. MALINS said the alterations that bad already been made in the ladies' gallery were forthe worse, and he hoped they would not be extended as asked. He be lieved the only inconvenience the ladies had suffered arose from the seats being too narrow for the prevailing Mae of the dresses. (Laughter.) Mr. CLAY suggested that a committee had better be appointed to examine the only evidence who could give an opinion on the subject. The subject then dropped. EPPING FOREST. Mr. HANBURY asked the First Commissioner of Works whether he was aware that some of the Crown rights of Epping Forest which were nearest to London and most frequented, had been sold by the . Government during the last few months; and called the attention of the-house to the importance of securing the yet unenclosed portions of Epping Forest for the recreation of the in habitants of the metropelie. Mr. HAMILTON said the question should have been addressed to him. He would make inquiry, and give an answer on a future day. EJIWENSES IN CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS. Mr. PHILLIPS oalled the attention of her Majesty's Government to the expediency of an early settlement of the scale of expenses allowed in connection with criminal prosecutions. TIIE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY E V ENING, JULY IgsB, her .3.lajeaty% CONTINUANCE BILL. The house went into committee on this bill, returning the candidate consideration o f the travelling expenses of th e voter.ideration of clause 1 relative to the payment by the A lengthened di•icussion ensued, in which the argu• merits urged yesterday were again repeated. Mr. K. HUGESSEN suggested the following pro viso :—Provided always, that such payments shall not exeed one shilling per mile to every such voter for any distance less than ten miles, and sixpence per mile for every additional mile : Provided also, that if the dis til:lee to be travelled by any snoh voter exceed ten mil es , and there be available railway accommodation, tho payments for travelling expenses shall not exceed the maximum rate of fare chargeable on such railway for such distance. Mr. WALPOLE repea'ed what he said yesterday, that he was ready to incorprate in his bill the proviso of o,:e hoe. member for the Tower Hainle's (Mr. Ayr ton). Tee candidates might pay for conveyances, but that no money should pass between the candidates and the votero. The committee divided upon Mr. Ayrtnn's proviso : For the proviso Against it., 39 Majority —lo6 Mr. ATIITOX'S proviso thus became the origiaal reso lution, and had to be put again from the chair. The question of its adoption led to another division, when the numbers were — For the resolution Against it . ... Majority . 133 58 ~ ---75 The resolution was thus carried. On the molion of Mr. WALPOLE, the following proviso was added :—"Provided always that a full, true, and particular account of all such payments, signed by the cacdidate or his agents, shall be delivered to the election auditor, with the' names and addresses of the 'Persons- to_whons-earrh, payments have been made, and the amount of Such account shall be included in the general account of the expenses incurred at any election, to be made out and kept by such election anditor." Mr. OSIORNE said there appeared considerable doubt on the nature of a vete. One gentleman looked upon it as a right, another regasded it as a privilege, a third viewed it as a trust. For his own part, he looked upon it as a perquisite. (Laughter.) He thought that candidates should not be called upon to pay anything out of their own pockets f)r e lections, and he should therefore move as an additio n to the clause that the candidate should be reimburse d for his ex p enses out of the county, city, or borough niter as the case might be, on which the voter's name appeared on the register. Sir J. GRA.IIA.iI considered that this clause would convert the bill into a taxing measure—that it would be a money bill, and that it could not be put. Mr. FITZROY decided that it only provided for ex penses out of local rates, and therefore was not a taxing clause. Mr. OSBORNE having withdrawn his amendment, it became the duty of the c h a irman to put the question that clause 1, as amended, stand part of the bill. The committee divided— For the clause .......................... . 125 Against it ................................. 68 Majority ........................... —57 The clause w4s agreed to. On clause 2, Mr. WALPOLE proposed that no election auditor for any single election should receive more than 201. in i;es and commissions. The clause, with this proviso, was agreed to. Clauses 3 and 4 were agreed to, and the bill passed through committee. Mr. EGERTON . , for Mr. MACAULAY, moved the addition of the following clause :—" For better securing to returning officers the expenses incurred by them in aking polls at elections, be it enacted, That the persons proposing any candidate shall be jointly liable with such candidate for the payment by him to the returning offi cer of an equal share of the said expenses." The committee divided. The numbers were— For the clause Against It Majority --110 The clause was added to the bill. The house resumed, the other orders were disposed of, and the house suspended its sittings at 4 o'clock. The house resumed at 6 o'clock. THE PRAYAR-BOOK. Lord 0, HA.MILION, Comptroller of the liousfhPid, THE JEW BILL. Lord J. RUSSELL moved the second reading of this bill. Mr. NEWDEGATE rose with the deepest regret to oppose the progress of a measure which had received the sanction of the vote if not received the approval of the judgment, of the noble earl at the bead of the Govern ment. After the many repeated assurances he had re ceived that he could sufficiently rely upon the deter mination of the noble earl at the head of the Govern ment to oppose the passing of the bill, it was with the greatest grief and surprise that he had seen the noble earl alter his determination, the more especially as there was no occasion for his doing so. (Hear, hear.) He did not believe that the bill represented the opinions of the people of England on the question ; and he deeply regrettedjthat the noble earl had not recommended to her Majesty to appeal to her faithful subjects and aft certain their feelings with respect to the admission of the Jeers to Parliament. He deprecated the bill astending to destroy the Christian character of the Legislature, and as being founded on a principle entirely new to their proceedings, on a principle calculated to overturn the constitution of Parliament. The bill was no settle ment of this much-vexed question, while it mu,t in the end utterly destroy the constitution of the country. Mr. SPOONER, in opposing the motion, held the bill to bee complete abandonment of the principle upon which the constitution of tho country rested. He declared the measure had been brought for ward without necessity, and merely to pebder to the demands of party politics. Ex• pedieney had done more to weaken the constitution of England than the strongest attacks ever directly levelled at it. He regarded the course taken by some gentlemen on that side of the house with respect. to thin measure as a great dereliction of duty, and as calculated very much to weaken the confidence of the country in Lord Derby's G overnment. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BENTINCK believed that they could not destroy the Christian character of the house without impairing its iulnence in the country. There was neither a ques tion of civil nor religious liberty mixed up with the agi tation upon the admission of Jews to the LegMeture. Hitherto the only result accruing from their agitation on the subject had been to return the noble lord opposite for the City of Lender), instead of for some small borough. Hence he regarded the passing of this bill as most lower ing to the character of Parliament. Since '46, when so many statesmen removed their principles, so gross an act of political tergiversation on the part of pnblic men had not been witnessed. Indeed, the present conduct was the more degraded, for then the question at issue had simply relation to commercial considerations, now they were seen yielding up long-cherished religious convictions. Ho expressed his sincere regret at the position the ques tion was now in, especially as the people who were op• posed to the introduction of the Jews to Parliament were not properly represented in that house. (Hear.) The conduct of the other house in reference to this ques tion would suffer much in the estimation of the people. (Hear, and " Divide.") Mr. &DAMS was not surprised the noble I)rd the member fer London had not recommended the second reading of the bill in a long speech, because he did not thick it was euch a one as the noble lord would have in troduced, but from a feeling of necessity he bad consented to conduct it through the house. His objection was not so much to the prevention of the Jews to have vats in Parliament as the principle of the form in which it had been presented to the House of Commons. He denied that this was a compromise. A man who was fit to sit in the House of COTl3lll3ne was fit to have a seat in the House of Lords, and he regretted the other house should have adopted this bill, and rejected the other. Ho thought it would have been more graceful in the other branch of the Legislature if they had conce led the ,first bill, instead of passing the bill now before the House of Commons. The admission of the Jews into the House of Commons had been conceded by the House of Lords in a most offensive manner. - - Lord J. RUSSELL said it was unnecessary for him to go over the arguments that had been used against the admission of Jews to Parliament. (Hear, hear.) He said that if be had been compelled to submit a resolu tion to the attention of the house for the seating of Baron Rothschild, ho should have done it in a full belief that it was according to the law, but they would be pre vented from entering on that point if this bill were passed. The bill had been sent there from the House of Lords for their concurrence, and according to established precedent he had introduced the bill for that purpose. (fear, hear.) He conceived the conduct o f the House of Lords , had not been the most gracious, but considering the difficulties of the question he considered the best course for the house to pursue was to accept the bill. Although this was a bill he n .uld not have proposed, be was glad to accept it as a mode of escape from the diffi culty in which they were placed, and that was why he recommended the bill for a second reading. He believed it weal provide a practical solution of the difficulty. With reference to the position of the Jew to the House of Lords, the noble lord said that if her Majesty con ferred a peerage on a Jew he should have no misgiving as to the result. A. difference of opinion might then be found to exist in the House of Lords, for they found the sons of peers were in many instances wiser than their fathers. (fear, hear, and laughter.) He asked the house to read the bill a second time, Mr, H, DRUMM.OND agreed with those who coo. sidered this the beginning of a new system, and be , denied that it was the climax of religious freedom. They committed ' great error in repealing the Te,t Act, but that having been done it hai been foui.d impossible to resist changes and alterations, and it ever would be so. It was useless now -to discuss the question whether they would have the Jew amongst them or not, on religious or irre'igious grounds. That bad been decided, and as this was a bill that was least likely to create disturbance, he should support the second reading of the bill. (Divide.) Mr. DILLWYN contended the House of Commons would have been justified in sealing Baron Rothschild by resolution. (Hear, hear, and divide.) He thought the measure unsatisfactory andiobjectiorable. It would net admit the Jew unless they passed another bill for that purpose, viz., the Oaths Bill. He should, however, sup port the reading, to get over a practic l difficulty, but he by no means considered it an effectual measure, (Hear, hear, and divide.) If a Jew were properly qua lified that haus° had no right to say he should not sit in that house. Mr. Secretary WALPOLE said that whatever might be the measure Parliament might pass, if any hon. mem ber apprehended evil would come from it it was their duty, in whatever minority they might be, to record their opinions. (Hear, hear.) He would not discuss the principle of the question again, but he begged to state that he bad seen no reason to change his opinion, even although this bill might be supported by those for whom he entertained sincere respect ; and he could not sup port the second reading of the bill. He thought it would have been better for the House of Lords to have frankly passed the Oaths Bill instead of adopting this patch work legislation, and which would not lead to a perma nent settlement of the question. After some further re marks, the right hon. gentleman said he protested strongly against this mode of legislation—(hear, hear) — which destroyed generality of legislation. Lord PALMERSTON expressed his dissatisfaction at the mode of legislation, but he supported the bill on the ground of expediency and the justice of admitting Jews to Parliament. He was content to receive the bill as the first instalment of a complete measure. (Hear, hear.) He could not doubt that tho House of Lerch, after having vsssed this bill, would on a future day refuse to pass a co oplete bill. (Hear, War, and divide.) MALINS, amidst loud cries of " Divide," expressed hi s reg ,set the House of Lords bad not decided the ques tion on g c,neral grounds, and allo w a Jew to be a member of both hous,'s. The house then divided. The numbers were— , For the second leading Against it Majority in fayoui a the second reading--31 The bill was then declared to be road a second time, and was ordered to be committed on ManktV• SUPPLY. The report of supply was brought up. On the vote for 1,0001. to defray the solely of the Chief Clerk of the Registry of Sasines in Scotland, Mr. CRAWFORD moved the omission of th►O vote. He thought that one officer would suffice for the duties of the department, and thought that the public interests would not suffer by the rejection of the vote. Mr. G. A. HAMILTON said that when they came into office they found the gentleman against whom the motion of the hon. gentleman was directed in office. Ho was ac knowledged to be most efficient, and the office was consi dered to be one that ought to be filled ; he thought, there fore, the hon. gentleman was scarcely justified in propos ing so sweeping a resolution. Mr. WILSON said it was the intention of the late Go vernment to have added new duties to those already de volving on these departments; and if that intention were carried out, he had no doubt that the two officers at the head of them would amply deserve the salaries allotted to them. After a few words from Sir W. Dunbar, Mr. Caird, and Mr. Bovill, Mr. CRAWFORD withdrew his amendment, and the resolution was withdrawn. THE REPORT OF PUBLIC MONEYS COMMITTEE. On the motion for going into committee of ways and means, Sir F. BARING directed attention to the above report, and complained that the late Government had not acted. During the discussion of the India Bill it struck him the question of de?osit had become one of considerable impor tance with reference to the Indian revenues. All the transactions of the Pay-office were not general'y knows; to the public, and the last vote the house had agreed to woo a remarkable instance—a portion of the money for the Duke of Wellington's funeral having remained in the Pay-office up to the last few months, and the recommendation of the committee in reference to the Pay-office ought to be car ried out. With regard to the Audit-office, he admitted that it was a very efficient board, but there were portions of the civil service estimates amounting to two millions that they did not audit, but were audited in their own department; and he hoped the recommendation of the committee in this respect would not be passed over. The audit under the Ap propriation Act was not under the same audit as other de partments, and the public did not know if the money voted for certain things were spent on them. The committee re commended an efficient check to ascertain if the money was properly expended. The question was, where the check was to take place. That for the Admiralty took place at the Admiralty ; but there was moms difficulty where the civil service check should take place. The right hon. baro net having referred to the recommendation for the appoint ment of a select committee each session to check the ex penditure, expressed an opinion that if the committee was appointed great benefit would result therefrom. Mr. BOW YER said the public moneys committee did not produce the results that were expected from it. Unless the Exchequer exorcised a control over the expen diture of the Treasury the public supervision of the a- counts was defective. He hoped the Government would carry out the recommendation of the committee. Sir G. C. LEWIS said that with regard to the Paymas ter's-office the practice now existing in that office and at the time of the war was the same that had prevailed from the passing of the act. With regard to the gross land re venues, it was a question that involved largo interests,and would affect future Sovereignr, so it was not that simple question many imagined. There was no concealment in the matter, because a copious and detailed report of the ;roes income and expenditure of the land revenues was laid every year on the table of the house. Mr. A. SMITH said there was concealment, because the accounts of the land revenues were not laid at the pro per time before the house. The house had voted the ex pense of this year before receiving the expenditure of last year. He maintained that the country had over and over again purchased those land revenues by the large sums they had in several reigns contributed to meet the defi ciencies which the crown lands would not supply. He con tended these revenues ought to be paid into the exche quer and treated like other branches of the revenue. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that if estimates were sub mitted to the house like the other departments, a great saving would be effected. The house ought to exercise a control over them, for her Majesty had no right to them. He hoped the house would take the matter into their con sideration, and produce estimates in reference to them. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the house labonred under a great misconception if it indulged in the belief that her Majesty's present Governmen treated the investigation of the committee with neglect. It would, however, he unable to carry out the regulation of the Trea sury minute founded on the recommendation of the com mittee without legislation by both Houses of Par- Himont. Her Majesty's Government had not yet had an opportunity of carrying the recommendations into effect, from the press of other public business. In dependent audit her Majesty's Government considered of great importance, and they had a measure in contempla tion on the subject. It was a question that required grave aonsicleration, and could not be lightly or hastily passed over. At the right time her Majesty's Government would bo prepared to submit a measure to the house in reference to carrying out the recommendations of the committee. Ile differed from the open expression in reference to the Crown lands, but ho expressed an opinion that the agreement that was catered into with the Crown was not disadvantageous to the public, and it was not desirable that they should carp and cavil at a, contract that had been entered into, and, as ho believed, satisfactory to the country. The motion was then agreed to. WAYS AND MEANS. The sums of 11,265,0001. and 4,i00,0001•, for the public service, wore agreed to in Committee of Ways and Means. The house resumed. CLERK OF PETTY SESSIONS, &c. (IRELAND) postpone for a vary long time the throwing open of th bridge. The bill then passed through committee. INCLOSURE OF LANDS BILL. This bill passed through committee. As the house was in no humour to listen to the subject he moved the adjournment of the debate, and the house divided— For the adjournment Against it Majority --92 Mr. BRISCOE then moved that the committee bo ad• ourned to Monday— For the motion Against it . 20 Majority The bill was then postponed. The Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Continuance Bill, the Turnpike Trusts Arrangement Bill, the Copyhold and In' closure Commission Bill, the indemnity Bill, and the Artni Service Bill were read a third time and passed. PURIFICATION OF THE THAMES. The house resolved itself into committee, and a resold• tion authorising the guarantee for the money to be raised for purifying the Thames was passed. The Friendly Societies' Aot Amendment Bill and the Reformatory Schools (Ireland) Bill were read a third time and passed. The house adjourned at two o'clock. - 7~ Country Markets. LIVERPOOL, JULY 16. Though we bad a poor attendance of town and country millers at our corn exchange this morning, the business was of moderate extent generally. The common kinds of American " oaty " wheat were put down in price id to 2d er bushel. Tho higher qualities were considered not to bo reduce in value. Indian corn very firm for feeding descriptions. Oats and oatmeal both strong. Beans and peas having improved so much the last fortnight, scarcely supported former ratee. BILL. This bill passed through committee. CHELSEA-BRIDGE ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion for going into committee on this bill, Mr. BENTINCK rose to object to the bill. The bill was opposed to principle, and perpetrated a breach of public faith. Mr. CONINGHAM regretted the bill did not go fur ther, and throw the bridge open altogether. The house then went into committee. On clause 3, Sir J. SHELLEY proposed in line 14, after " the" leave out down to "aforesaid" inclusive, and insert "passing of this act." The effect of the amendment was to declare, that after the passing of this act tolls would no longer be levi able on foot passengers crossing Chelsea-bridge. There was not tho slightest doubt that the remission of the tolls would enormously enhance the value of the Government land in the vicinity. 31(1,0001. had been expended in the formation of a park at Battearsea, but no sooner was the park formed than a toll was placed on the brid4e conducting to it, which amounted to a practical exclusion of the working classes from the park. After a few words from Mr. O'BRIEN in opposition to the motion, Mr. B. STANHOPE objected to the motion, and said that if the proposal of the hon. baronet were acceded to, the necessary consequence would be that the House of Commons would never again be got to authorise an ad vance of public money for local purposes. Lord J. MANNERS said that if he could have come to the conclusion that the abolition of the tolls on Chelsea Bridge violated no breach of public faith, no one would be more ready than he was to consent to their abolition. However, Parliament in its wisdom having laid down cer tain conditions when the money for the formation of the bridge was advanced, ho must roluetantly vote against tho motion of his hon. fiend. Argument on the question there could be none, as he believed it was beyond dispute that the imposition of the toll on the bridge precluded the poorest class of the community from taking advantage of Battersea-park. Mr. CONINGHAM and Mr. WILLIAMS supported the amendment. Mr. J. LOCKE contended that the principle laid down by the First Commissioner of Works was the most extra ordinary he had ever heard. They might depend upon it that no one would offer a shilling advance for land near Battersea-park unless that toll were removed off the bridge. The question at issue, therefore, was as interesting to the public at large as to the community in the neighbourhood of Battersea-park. The committee divided— For the amendment 4l Against it 113 illy jori ty. Mr. B. STANHOPE, in page 3 line 9, proposed an amendment, the end of which would be to require the repayment of the interest due on the loan advanced by • - Govern tnent for the formation of the bridge and the ap proaches thereto. Lon' J. MANNERS opposed the amendment. Mr. COLLINS and Mr. BENTINCK supported it. The committee divided-- For the amendment Aga,instit Majority .• Major SIBTHORP then proposed an amendment, the effect of which was that no tolls shall be levied on foot passengers crossing the bridge on Sundays. Lord J. MANNERS would consent to the adoption of that amendment. (Cheers•) But he must remind the house that the consequence of its adoption would be to .. 45 116 BIRTHS. BROOKE—On the 15th inst., at 2, Oak Villas, Hange r lane, Stamford-hill, the wife of Thomas Brooke, Esck° of a son. Cool►—On the 14th inst., at 10, Princes-street, Hanove r' square, Mrs. Geo H. Cook, of a son. LESLIE—On the 15th inst., at Little Hothfield, the Wi fe ' of Captain Leslie, of a son and heir. WYATT—On the 15th inst., at 69, Oxford-terrace, gi ll Arthur HarveylWyatt, of a daughter. WAKEFIELD-JULY 16. There was a fair quantity of wheat presented, and price' reoeded about la per qr. from Friday last. Millers opir rated with caution. Barley, beans, and other articles is main firm. AVERAGES FOR THE WEER ENDING JULY 12, 1858. Wheat 3716 quarters, at 45s 5d .• Barley — „ s Od Oats 2O „ 26s Od Beaus 42 „ 42s 54c1 Peas_,. „ —s Od EXETER—JULY 16. CORN.—Wheat, 5a 9d to Os ; barley, 3s 6d to 4s 6(1) grinding do., Os 04 to Os 04. Oats, 3s Od to 3s 6 3 ' Beans, Os Od to 0 Od. Peas, OOs Od to OOs Od. FLOtrll.—Fine, 33s Od to —s Od; seconds, 31s Oct to — Ai Od per sack. CATTLE. —There was a large supply of bullocks. Bes t beef, from Os Od to lOs Od per score ; inferior, 7s to 86 score ; fat calves, 5d to s:ld per lb ; barrenners, 6s 6d to 7 4 , 6d. per score ; cows and calves, 11/. to 16/. Os ; butchers. calves, Oct to 74 per lb., re a rin g calves —s t o -- s each' sheep, ewes and lambs, 21. 5s to 21. 15s per couple; ewes. 5 -' to 50 ; wethere,s . l4 64; lambs, bid to 7d per lb. rlO large size, —a to —s; second size, —s to —s; slips, to —s ; suckers, —s to —s. Rough fat, 4d per 10 Pork carcases from 8s 64 to gs Od per score. LOUTH—JULY 14. A moderate supply of English wheat, which met a dell sale at a decline of 13 per qr. Oats and other articles had a downward tendency. Wheat, red, 39s to 42s ' • mixed, —a ; white, 475; barlq 324 to 36a ; oats 24s to 27s ; beans, 40s to 445. CORK—JULY 13. A thin attendance, and transactions limited. Wheat, white ~ 23s to —a Barley, grinding —s to —s Oats 14s to 171 Beans —s to a Peas. —a to —a DERBY SMITHFIELD.-July 13. Our market was well supplied with fat beasts to.daii with a full attendance of buyers, but the demand was 11 ° 1 compared with the extra supply brought to the mark° through the scarcity of keep; sales slow, and a consider' able number driven away unsold. Sheep and lambs vell t numerous. Fat calves plentiful, and a heavy sale. Ago show of fat pigs. The following were the quotations :—Beef, bid to 6i (11 mutton, 6d to 6id ; lamb, 70 to 8d ; veal, 6d to —d lb. ; pork, 5d to —d per lb ; rough fat, 4s 8a- to ; per 141 b.; hides, 2d to 3d per lb ; calf-skins, 4d to per lb. BRISTOL SUGAR—JULY 16. The market is still very quiet, and parcels on the le aro difficult of sale, ovsn at a further concession in prig; For floating cargoes, however, there is rather more quirt', and about 6,0 0 boxes Havanahs have been c 1 ,1 5; posed of since our last, chiefly from 26s 6d t o 27 s 61., 1 ,,, ° Nos. 11 and 12. Refiners' produce sells pretty steady' at about former rates. Rum is still very dull, but pri 6 are pot lower. COAL MAR Prices of Coals per ton a' s. d. Benton West Hartley.l4 6 Davison's West Hartley 15 0 Htl'pool West Hartley 14 6 Haswell Gas..., 13 • Howard's West Hartley. Netherton 15 0 North Percy Hartley l4 0 Tanflold Moor ]3 9 , Tanfiold Moor Butes 13 Walker Primrose l2 9j Wylain Wallsend, &e. Benson 14 9 Gesforth l4 3 Riddell l4 3, Ships at market, COURSE OF EXCHANGE.-YESTERDAY. meterdam............ 11 1514 Gibraltar Ditto, three months .. 11 17% Leghorn .. •• ••.•...... Rotterdam ............ 11 17% Genoa ...•••••••• 25 `° Antwerp •• • • •• •• •• •• •• 25 37% Milan •• •• •• • • •• •• •• •• Brussels •• •• •• •• ••• ••25 37 Venice .• •• •• •• •• go ••• aamburgh •• •• •• .• • • 13 6% Naples - 417 Altona •• •••• •• •• •• •• v 244 Paris •• •• ... • • -.••• •••• •• 25 •• 10 Messina •• • ••• 12 4 4 Do. three months .. 25 35 Lisbon .•• • • Marseilles ............25 35 Oporto •• •• •• •....... •• 52/10 Bourdeaux .• •••••• •• ••• IRio Janeiro 00 000 •••• • •• •'' Frankfort-on-Maine.... 1181,4 Buenos Ayres ...... • • New York,6o days' sight Vienna,— •• •• •• •• •••• ve 10 28 Philadelphia ••••• • • • • • Thoste•••••••••••••••• 10 29 PRICES OF RUZLION, PER fa% Petersburg ............ 35 N. 'Foreign Gold in Bars £3 17 ; Madrid 49 1 4 ',Portugal Gold Coin .. 0 0 Cadiz ••• •• •• •• •• • . 49% Mexican Dollars •• •• 0 0 0 n 8arce10na.......... New Dollars ...... 0 (5 u 4 8 ovine ••• ... ••• •• • • •• Silver Lu bars •• •• .• 0 6 i• LOCAL BHARB MARKET'S. LIVERPOOL, JULY 16. STOCK EXCHANGE—The market to-day improved t , after the opening, but became d u ll, an d c l ose d very . nf,.' —London and North-We s t ern , 918 90—Sheffield, 3642, Chester and Holyhead, 17a 14—Eastern Counties, 12 54 , T - 1 Midland, 92,7 I—North British, 12A j—Birkenheads, 61 1 —Great Western, 494 50—Lancashire and Yorkshire, 911 . :, - Great Western of Canada, 18 181—Blackburns, 111 Berwick., 221 i—East Lancashire, 901 11—Caledenil 39A —Leeds Northern, 23 1 - Dutch Rhenish, 6k dis.—York and North Midland, 3 , i I—Grad Trunk ° Canada, 108 1--Devers, 201 5-16. BIRMINGHAM, JULY 16. Snell EXCLIANGE.—There was no i m p ro v emen t in th e business done, and the market closed at about y es terdatA rate:. Midlands were d one a t 92I—S ou th Staffords 01 0 . 1 ; at 10 to 101 —Birmingh am an d D er by s , 63—Shrops131' Unions, 43—Great Westerns, 491 50—Londons, [ADVERTISEMENT.]—HoIIoway's Pills a most eueci.— cure of sick headaches, bile, and disordered stomachel These wonderful pills ,ured the Earl of Aldborough g another nobleman of similar complaints, after the 1 03. 4 eminent surgeons in England and on the continent bl, l Keen consulted in vain. This renowned medicine 14 : 1 cure any person, however lad his case may be, who to suffering from ganeral debility, headache, indigestion, u ' bilious compla:nts. These pills act on the very EO O ,: l springs of life, so that no disease, notwithstanding ' l . severity, can resist th eir influence.—Sold by all medic s vendors throughout the world ; at Professor Holloway establishment, 244, Strand, London ; by A Stategt° Constantinople ; A. buidiey, Smyrna ; and E. BD" Malta. MARRIAGES. BRUCE —SLADu---At Walcot Church Bath, Alan Camet •t ; Brace, Esq., of E xe t er C o ll ege , Oxford, to Logien, cob child of the late Lieut.-Colonel J. 11. Slade, Ist Drs goon Guatds, eldest son of General Sir John Slade, 13 " / G.C.H. WitYGEIT —FORLONGE - At St. James's, Paddington, the Rev. A. M. Campbell, M.A. Wm. Barton Wrigh t ' Esq., of Madras, to Jessie, second daughter of Willis o Forlongo, Esq., of Glocester-square, Hyde-park. DEATHS, BENCE—On the 14th inst., in London, the Rev. Thon3 o l Starkie Bence, rector of Thorington, in the county 0 - , Suffolk, agod 33. CHILD -On the 14th inst., at Great Russell-street, Bloorne. bury, George John Child, Esq., aged 83. HARROD- On the 14th inst., at his residence, 2, Beve l ' place, New Kent-road, Mr. G. G. Harrod, aged 63. , KILGOUR- On the 13th i ns t., a t T rou vill e .s ur -M er , tub William Kilgour, Esq., of Tullocb, Aberdeenshire, ag e 45. LOWES -On the 13th inst., at Kirk Michael, Scotland' William E. Lowes, Esq., of Southwick-place, Lendne' aged 31. PRESCOTT- On the 12th inst., at Southampton, Jane, the youngest daughter of Vice-Admiral Sir Henry and LA" Prescott, aged 24. WRIGHT - On the 11th inst., John Wright, Esq., of 01 Vale-placo, Hammersmith-road, one of the memboo o the Saddlers' Company, aged 67. LOI.IDON : Printed end Published by MITRDO youlL , of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, .°,. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the conga/ of Atictileoex, Sat= lay. July 17, 1858, ff.-JULY 16. the close of the market Wsllsend, 11 , 5... 6 ' Belmont., 1.4 6 Braddyll ... 15 6 ° Haswell 11 6 Hetton ll 0 South Hetton 11 0 1 Shineliffe 15 0 'lHeugh Hall l6 0 Itunwiek I 4 6 South Kelloe 146 6 Tees lO Brown's Moor Haigh ' 5 Main /4 I Whitworth IA 0 Nixon's Duffryn. 2$ 73—Sold, 50. R. l lions by everY eveni Ad±ission at the Roy Cramer, Be T. M MEII om Memo 1 .04," e,emi Xvening. tY Weekly. Stalls (nt rureaerred Lon,7-scre. CIIRI —T' TALNIfF: Circus—lta eommencla Back. Is. The Patr company a' C HM Pierce. Vol' and Joe Bi have been proachlng and EyE2 Ifot day, A London. I in England Intend e d t Royal Libr fragment America in Nearly a Minatrclv, times, are you;" j) " 'loop de Royal Lil oy, fres co Cirque 01 •rm -froni N.B. Tu] LAYs Ascent .Admisslon. AT PH" Portant aut met), at nR• XAI :11ARRIAG receipt ofti :t,A L - EL (Th , ...ranget ▪ rial ▪ ace, on er a short QlRcus unrivalled EPLENDI] day Entert ~ : ?,Pfivate I teos. ; il.Vres for I C. F .917aratms retired, or I 11 -saiktelti tirert Obt4lll 11011 Uatftel been,'ln an; A' P*.e. Lone ',us on a 4 Pol mtng dodo( NTH' aiS o 3 ci B o 3v hes been !u Policies of ; 4 rring wit 4 , 14n ual Pre] •." 42 death I ° TR] 4 g 1 P 1 :1 ware, YIN' NED Ke Samuel John tll M eitril. I The nex 11 1 , 7. 181S0 Policy taken eat' in The foil, L atronal I I tie So( "vn-th ` l7 e Year) Its subs It s i ns .. t ) one bui Its sun The t ut About ' 5l three h For Ara itios 141, s , JUit put SELF Ind ° Oll. ll frog " i ti t M an krie t re nlarks rglYsleds „iirsirlart rub', MaY b, Gcrtlon e onault Radii:ft( Tee CAle:uti eireath Colon IRA 1841 1 145 1 848 1851 illlvir p atent eradi c thin e CoDai , ruin c