The Sun. — London, England, 1859-03-09 00:00:00

his case : in de- h. I gave Brecon. ie land s ; that he incura to him. for £750 Lyor and ader tho e . after- is same I, and a ;ee was Honour 7ere in plaintiff Honour the act, rdinary private roperty right of at order moceeds s to be is case nd Mr. iNUGGS. applied ed from I hear- saction, certain he fish, and ho ded the endant, ie fish, lon him he (de to do njamin, er, give and he illings zought ect. If dgment matter fendant e in the CE ACT. the de ;hat the I. Mun n) Sun- or some ither to nd said 3W, her ht, and body on stiff to ay was AY) ling. beyond cant to )A1 7 .) Elarris, t being ho sa' get the t. Ho drunk, asked I was larylo s Y 20s. 2„; and 11 non- of two magi- days. e here Irish orton, Mali hway, THIRD EDITION. SUN OFFICE, Seven o' Clock. NOTTINGHAM RACES. (THIS DAY). [BY ELECTRIC TELEGRA.PIT.I FOREST PLATE. Aluffatee colt Brandy Ball Soothsay(r . Nine ran. INNKEEPERS' PLATE. Sheffield Captain Wedderburn Eight ran. ANNUAL HURDLE RACE Sobieski .... Harry Bluff. Seven ran. BETTING ON THE COURSE. NORTHAMPTONSHIRE STAKES. 7to 1 agst Gladiolus (taken) 12 to 1 agst Little Agnes (taken) 14 to . 1 agst Mutineer (taken) 14 to 1 agst Shaft() (taken) 20 to 1 agst Rio (taken) CHESTER CUP. 100 to 3 agst Queenstown (taken) 50 to 1 agst Jordan (taken) IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF C OMMONS-(THIS DAY). This being Ash Wednesday, the Speaker, accompanied by several members of the House of Commons, attended Divine service at St. Margaret's, Westminster, and did not take the chair until two o'clock. NEW MEMBER, The Hon. F. LYGON took the oaths and his seat for Tewkesbury. PETITIONS. Several petitions wero presented, praying for tho admis • mon of persons employed in provincial post -offices to the benefits of the Superanz Illation Act ; that maleriage with a deceased wife's sister in ight not be legalised, &c. FOREIGN OFFICE. Sir G. LEWIS moved for a copy of tho report of Mr. John Phipps, on the sti ite of the buildings row occupied as the Foreign-office, dated Jan. 12, 1859. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Lord J. RUSSELL csaid—On the motion for the second reading of the bill to ame ad the representation of the people, I will move an amendment, of the terms of which I shall give notice to-morrow. JURIES (IRELAND) BILL. • On the motion for the second reading of this bill, Lord NAAS said the Government would not oppose the second reading of the bill, but as they intended to bring in a bill almost similar, he suggested that the hon. member who brought forward the present measure should postpone its further stage until both bills could be laid before the house. After a few words from Colonel FRENCH, Mr. J. D. FliiorhitA.LD said he would agree to post- Pone the committal of the bill . till this day fortnight, in order to meet the views of the noble lord. The bill was then read a second time. CHURCH RATES BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this bill, , Sir J. TRELAWNY moved as an amendment that the bill be read a second time this day six months. He strongly objected to the principles and details of this bill; which he considered faulty in various particulars. He thought the provisions with reference to ownership and the constitution of the incumbent and churchwardens into a corporation was very objectionable He did not see any necessity for the alteration in those points tb.at had been introduced in the present measure. This 'Dill not only tended to perpetuate agitation on the subject of church rates, but actually to create agitation in districts where it did not at present exist. He thought that that objection was fatal to the bill, but it could be romedi ad by the right hon. gentleman who introduced the bill. One of the great evils of church rates was that they imposed upon Dissenters the obligation of paying not only for the parish church but 0 .150 for their own places of worship--at least that was their Practical operation. The number of pews provided by the church of England was 5 000 000 while the Dissenters supplied the community with nearly 5,006,000 seats. The Country should, therefore, feel very grateful to the bissenters, without whose assistance the working- Classes would not have had sufficient accommoda tion for attending divine worship. It should also be remembered that the Dissenters cor.tributed largely to the religious and secular education of the people, by the establishment of Sunday and other schools throughout the tufted Kingdom. NEW MEMBER. At this stage of the proceedings the SPEAKER announced that a new member was waiting to - take his seat. Mr. Wilts, ESTCOURT then took the oaths and his seat for Wilts, for which .he had been re-elected since his accept ance of the officeof Home Secretary, vacant by the resigna tion of Mr. Walpole. CHURCH RATES BILL, Lord CASTLEROSSE seconded the amendment. He contended that the present bill was the worst that had yet been brought before the house, and combined all the defects of the previous measures that had bee n introduced on the subject. The Dissenters paid £300,000 annually to the State Church ; and at the same time contributed a sum ex ceeding £1,000,000 to their own ministers. He thought, therefore, any measure like the present would inflict on that body It great injustice, and that it could not fail to excite great dissatisfaction. Mr. SOTHERON-ESTCOURT supported the bill. He said it contained two most important objects, namely, the provision for commutation and personal exemption. (Hear, hear.) They should recollect that they were dealing with a custom that had been in existence for 1,400 years, and they should not act in a manner that was at variance with customs of such long standing. They were all aware that when a church-rate was proposed it was the signal for agitation, and the parish church became the arena of strife, a state oithings which he was satisfied well-conducted Dis • Renters as well as Churchmen - would desire to see abolished. Ile suggested that the churchwardens should post on the church door a statement of the repairs requisite for the building, as well as an estimate of the expense, and then that any person having a conscientious objection to paying the rate should signify the same before the next vestry, and be exempted from the impost. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY opposed the bill. He proposed that the statute of limitations should be made applicable to those rates, and when they had been discontinued in a parish for such a term of years as would indicate this feeling, they should then be finally discontinued. He was not aware that any petitions were presented in favour of this bill, though he knew that there were several against its provisions. He considered the scheme of the right hon. gentleman totally inapplicable to parishes Where the landlord had taken on himself the payment of thos e rates. In regard to the proposal to transfer the rate from the occupier to the owner he did not think it would work well, and that portion of the measure he therefore objected to. In regard to those who had conscientious ob jections to the payment of these rates he thought something ought to be done. His principal objection to the bill was that it left untouched parishes which, in his opinion, should have been included, and he thought the only effectual Means of settling the question and terminating the unplea sant feelings that existed on the subject was to abolish the impost altogether, and he had little doubt that the Church would not be placed in a worse position than it was at Present. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. PAKINGTON said that the speech of the right hon. gentleman (Sir G. Grey) forced on him the painful conviction that the spirit of party was paramount in that house to the spirit of peace. (Cries of " Oh, oh," and hear, hear.) He trusted he would be allowed to express the conscientious convictions of his mind, and would repeat *what he had said. He accused the right hon. gentleman of acting with the greatest inconsistency in opposing the second reading, and referred to the part he had taken on former occasions' when the subject was before the house. He (Sir George Grey) should have reserved his opposition until the bill got into com mittee, and he had even admitted that he approved of some , portions of the bill. Now, there were only two principles involved in the bill, the one providing for a prospective commutation of rates, and what was conceived in a most friendly spirit, the exemption of Dissenters. (Hear.) He certainly approved of the amendments in the bill which had been suggested, and that persons residing in one dis trict should not be charged for the maintenance of a church in another ; and, as far as he was concerned, he would con sent to an alteration to that effect. He referred to the circular of the " Society for the Liberation of the Church from State Patronage and Control," a copy of which he had received. That document stated that the question of church-rates involved injustice, an assertion which could not be logically maintained. The church-rate was one of the most ancient imposts in this country, and had been levied for the most sacred object to which any impost could be appropriated. (Hear, hear.) Every one who had pro perty in this country hold it subject to this impost, and could not justly complain of being called on to pay it. He agreed in what had been said by one speaker as to What the country owed the Dissenters, and he had not been one of those who ever spoke disrespect.. fully of that body. But, in settling this question, he should wish to know, if they abolished the Church-rates, from what other source they could Maintain their churches, and he confessed he could not see any such. The bill was conceived in a conciliatory spirit, and he trusted it would not be met in a spirit of faction. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY explained that he voted for the second reading of the bill brought in on this subject on the distinct understanding that it should embody in committee the amendments which he proposed. The present bill could not embody such alterations, and on that ground he opposed its second reading. Sir R. BETIIELL said he did not know what hon. gentlemen on the opposite side of the house understood by conciliation, but he certainly did not think the speech of the right honourable baronet (Sir J. Pakington) was of a very conciliatory character. That right hon. gentleman was ignorant of the first element requisite to understand the subject. (Laughter.) He (Sir J. Pakington) had said that this was an impost on land, but that was not, the case, for it was levied on the occupier. (Cries of " Oh, oh," and " Hear, hear.") The objec tion of the Dissenters to church rates was founded en the fact that they considered that impost as a remnant of that ancient spirit of intolerance which had endeavoured to make all confirm to one set of doctrines and to one formula of worship. (Hear, hear.) So long as this impost continued the Dissenters of this country would not consider that they enjoyed entire religious free dom. He concluded 1 y denouncing strongly the measure as being unjust, oppressive, and calculated to excite the greatest hostility amongst the Dissenting body. (Hear.) Mr. DRUMMOND opposed the bill, and objected to all abolition, tampering with, or modification of, the impost. He considered that the Dissenters had no right to complain of these rates, and there was no rate in the country to which the party who paid it could object. The attempt to abolish church rates was an effort made by a great body in this country to do do away with the Established Church altogether. Mr. BALL supportenhe second reading. Mr. LOWE said the present law with respect to church rates was both injurious to Dissenters and prejudicial to Churchmen. He, however, objected to the bill, because he believed it would rather tend to increase the strife occa sioned by the payment of church rates than to allay any ill feeling. Mr. WALPOLE said tile principles of his bill had been very freely stated. Of the two principles contained in the measure, namely, voluntary commutation and exemption on account of conscientious reasons, he did not think the right honourable baronet (or, some of the other gentlemen who had spoken against the bill) would object to either proposition, and yet dry were going to oppcse the bill. The only real objection he had heard to the bill was that made by the hon. gentleman the member for Kidderminster (Mr. Lowe), viz., that the bill would not allay strife ; but the object of this measure was to remove a pressure, which was surely not a principle that could give rise to strife. (Hear, hear.) He had been told that in excepting Dissenters from church rates, he was giving up the principle of an Established Church, ut his proposbition was to remove a burden which was imposed in consideration of a benefit which was now no longer received, all people not being now of the same opinion about religious matters. He did not doubt thelvoluntary principle, but he was not prepared to give up endowments, while the Church could havethe benefit both of endowments and voluntary aid. There were parts of the country where the voluntary principle could not reach, and if they gave up what their ancestors provided, they could not maintain the fabric of the church. He did not de spare of the fate of his measure, but in the event of failure, however much he might regret it, as he had proposed this bill to put an end to the agitation. If the 01 was rejected, he should be consoled by the thought that he had only failed where persons of more talent than he possessed had met with the same fate, but he hoped the bill would be read a second time, so that in com mittee it could be so amended as to meet the views of all parties. Mr. STANHOPE addressei the house amidst loud cries of " Divide, divide." At the conclusion of the hon. gen tlemen's remarks, none of which could be heard, The house divided, when there appeared— For the second reading l7l Against it Majority, against the Uoverninent --S3 The result was received with loud cheers. CHURCH RATES ABOLITION BILL. Sir JOHN TRELAWNY postponed proceeding with his bill until to-morrow evening. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at six o'clock. THE GOVERNMENT REFORM BILL. PUBLIC MEETING THIS DAY. A public meeting of the inhabitants of West minster vas held this day at St, Martin's-hall, Long-acre, for the purpose of adopting such mea sures as might be deemed expedient respecting the Reform Bill proposed by the Government The hall was about half filled at the commence ment of the proceedings. At one o'clock the chair was taken by T. Prout, Esq. Amongst those present we observed Sir De Lacy Evans, M.P. ; Sir John Shelley, MY. ; D. Nicoll, Esq., M.P., &c. Letters of apology were received from Sir B. Hall, Mr. Wyld, Mr. Byng, and several other members of Parliament, who expressed their in ability to attend, in consequence of the church rate bill being under discussion in the House of Com mons. • The CHAIRMAN, in opening the proceedings, said he trusted the meeting would support him in the performance of his duty. He thought the bill brought forward by the Government on the subject of reform was a hoax attempted to be palmed upon the people, which would lead them into a labyrinth of folly. (Cheers.) Mr. POUNCEY, in moving the first resolution, denounced in strong terms the Government bill, as by one of its clauses it disfranchised no less than 10,000 of the 40s. freeholders. He condemned the bill, as it contained no opening for the working classes— (hear, hear)—and he deemed it his sacred and solemn duty to oppose any measure that did not admit the working man to the exercise of his undoubted right, the franchise. (Hear, hear.) He concluded by moving the following resolution : " That this meeting considers the proposed measure'of the present Government for Parliamentary Reform utterly un worthy the acceptance of the people, as, by still excluding the great body of the people from the exercise of the fran chise, by perpetuating the gross inequalities of representa tion, by retaining the small, corrupt and nomination boroughs, and by withholding the Ballot—the only security against bribery and intimidation—it leaves the chief evils and anomalies of the present system untouched." _ Mr. ROBINSON, in seconding the resolution, said he did so because he thought it would be acceptable to the great majority of the people. He viewed the Government measure as a trick, a sham, and an attempt to impose upon the intellect of the people. (Loud cheers.) The popular voice, in his opinion, was decidedly opposed to the measure, as they had, after waiting for years, determined to have a much more comprehensive bill than that now put for ward. [A person in the body of the hall called out " Bright's bill," which elicited cheers, hisses, and cries of" No, no."] The Times had stated on a former occasion that there was no need of reform, but that journal was again turning round—(cheers)—it was only watting until the people had pronounced, and then it would be ready to advocate the necessity of reform. (Hear, hear.) The bill of the Government did not give the people the ballot. Now that cir cumstance aloe was a great mistake, for without it all extension of the franchise would be worse than useless. He called upon the meeting to do all that was possible to defeat the measure which had so many omissions. _ Mr. MANTLE then came forward, and, in a long speech, said the bill was unworthy of the support of the English people. Mr. WHITEHURST (the Vise-President of the Ballot Society) advocated the necessity of the ballot forming a prominent part in any Reform Bill that might be adopted. As it was not intro. duced in the Government measure that bill ought to be instantly rejected. After a stormy discussion the resolution was carried with the following addenda : " That this meeting is further of opinion that the only legitimate basis of a national reform is to be found in man hood suffrage, and that no bill will meet with the concur rence of the inhabitants of Westminster unless it contains that vital element of reform." Sir D. L. EVANS then came forward to address the meeting, and, was received with loud cheers. He said in all his experience he never met with such a sham and transparent humbug as the Government Reform Bill, which it would be an act of cruelty to treat with all the severity it deserved. (Hear, hear.) But such a measure was to be ex pected, for it emanated from a party who never had been very anxious about the question of re form. (Cheers.) It professed to be a Reform Bill with an extension of the suffrage, but instead of that it was an anti-reform bill, with a diminution of the suffrage. (Cheers.) The great principle of the bill was that it had no principe at all. Instead of extending the franchise, it would reduce the county constituency by two or three hundred thousand, instead of increasing it, as it ought to do by two or three millions. .The Govern ment bill was technically the only measure before Parliament ; but they had become acquainted with the outline of another bill, and he should consider it his duty to support in the House of Commons the most liberal measure that was proposed there. (Loud cheers.) He had tendered his support to Mr. Bright, as he was perfectly ready to follow him as a zealous soldier in the ranks of reform. Manhood suffrage had been brought before them, but he was not prepared to say that that was a com plete suffrage, because if so admitted he did not see how it would be possible to withhold from independent women the privilege of a vote. (Laughter.) He was in favour of a large extension of the suffrage, which he did not think could be designated as a revolutionary step. (Hear, hear.) There was another reason he had for ex tending the basis of the constitution, as there was a military power lying alongside of us which was preparing in a most suspicious manner, and it behoved this country, when they saw such things going on, to get their house in order. (Cheers.) The gallant General then referred to the arrival of Poerio and the other Neapolitan victims in Cork harbour, and expressed an opinion that the people should take some steps to show their sympathy with them. He thought they could even now very well give three hearty cheers for them. (The suggestion was met with a very hearty response.) Sir J. SliELxv, T M., said, he thought that the Governmentmieasure had b een so th oroug hly smashed that he had little to say further than to denounce it as an imposture, a sham, and a take in. (Cheers.) It had been proposed to allow the bill to go into committee, in ord er that some of the objec tionable parts of it might be amended, but imme diately after he had heard Mr. Duncombe's speech he had determined to give his vote for preventing its second reading. (Cheers.) The bill of the Go vernment had kept out the working classes; that was one defect, and it kept out many respectable and intelligent people from the franchise, which was another ; and a third was that, although it pro fessed to disfranchise a small number of boroughs, it left many untouched that ought to have been swept away. He objected to the proposed dis franchisement of freeholders in boroughs. The effect of such a step would be that, in Westminster alone, 1,387 persons would be disfranchised. The public did not want any of these fancy franchises, as proposed by the Government. (Cheers.) They wanted scm Ahing straightforward—(cheers)— something they could understand. [(Cheers.) The proposition to enfranchise doctors, barristers, and schoolmasters sounded well, but it was DIOEEY' lIIARICET AND CITY NEWS. CITY, Two o'CLocK. There is a steady demand for discount accommo dation in Lombard-street, but at the Bank of England the inquiries have fallen off, owing no doubt to the lower rates again accepted in the open market for the negotiation of first-class secu rities. The terms range as low as 21 and 21 per cent. The requirements of the commercial public are still very moderate, but during the last few weeks the uncertainty created by foreign politics has checked operations, and to some extent may have influenced the demand for accommodation. While the sup plies continue so extensive no permanent reaction in the terms is considered probable, and there are several who anticipate a 2 per cent. minimum before many months have elapsed, unless new channels are opened, either in the shape of loans or joint-stock companies, for the active employ ment of capital. One circumstance, which strengthens the impression that the existing easi ness will be prolonged, is the steady influx of Australian gold, and the limited exports which, if continued, must result in a further accumulation of bullion. In the Foreign Exchanges yesterday afternoon a considerable decline was recorded in the rates on Vienna and Trieste. About £13,000 in gold, principally by the Red Jacket, was sent into the Bank of England yester day. The gold by the Atrato—viz., £7B,soo—from the West Indies, has been taken for the Continent. The steamer which leaves for the Brazils to-day will convey £85,867 in gold and silver. The Silver Market continues steady, and the bars by the last West India steamer have been disposed of at ss. 11d. per oz., showing no altera tion. Accounts from Liverpool state that the Cotton Market, yesterday, presented rather more anima tion, and prices of all descriptions continued extreme. The sales amounted to 10,000 bales. In the Railway Share Market business was steady, and quotations fully maintained. The announcement, last evening, that a slight relapse had taken place in the Paris Bourse was sufficient to affect the English Stock Market. At the commencement of business this morning a decline of about per cent. ensued, and an uneasy feeling has been exhibited amongst the operators for a rise, some of whom have realised, and this has consequently created heaviness. The dealings this morning have been very limited, and the market has been kept in a state of suspense until the receipt of later advices from the Paris Bourse, There is still a disposition to entertain a favourable feeling with regard to the future ; but much anxiety, of course, still exists until continental affairs assume a more encouraging appearance. Consols are about 951 96 for money, and 96 to 961 for the April account. The Government broker has purchased £20,000 stock for the savings banks. Bank Stock has been marked 227 and 2291 for special transfer ; the Reduced, 96a for ditto, and the New 3 per Cents. are flat at 961 d ; Exchequer Bills, 365. to 395. ; India Loan Debentures are 99, and the Bonds 20s. premium. In the Foreign Stock Market about an average amount of business has been transacted, and prices remain without any material alteration. Turkish 6 per Cents. are 93 to 931; ditto, New Loan, 791 to 80 ; Dutch 4 per Cents. are steady, at 1001, Mexi can at 201, and Buenos Ayres Deferred at 181 ; Venezuelan Deferred are flat at 17k, and Spanish Deferred at 30Z- ; Russian 4+ per Cents. are firm, at 1001, and Sardinian at 821. The New Austrian Loan is 1-1 to 1 dis. The Railway Share Market has been moderately active, but a downward tendency has prevailed in some instances, while in others there has been a slight improvement, owing to the favourable traffic returns. Caledonians and Chester and Holyhead have improved ss. • Great Western and Midland, 10s. ; and Great Northern, £l. Eastern Counties, South Western, and North Eastern (Berwick), declined ss. ; North Eastern (York), 10s. ; and Brighton, £l. The Foreign undertakings have been depressed. Lombardo-Venetian have declined about 55., and Paris and Lyons, 10s. Great Luxembourg brought former rates. In the Colonial Market, East Indian have receded about ss. ' • Great Western of Canada, 10s. ; Grand Trunk of Canada have exhibited a considerable improvement in consequence of the new arrange ment published yesterday being quoted 35, 351, 36. Joint-Stsck Bank and Miscellaneous Shares are a shadefirmer. London and County have improved 10s. • London and Westminster, ss. ; Electric Tele graph and Madras Irrigation brought former rates. BRITISII FUNDS—CLOSING PRICES rank Stock 3 per Cent. Reduced Annuities Shut 961 3 per Cent. Consols Annuities New 3 per Cent. Annuities 96% a Lon!: Annuities, expire sth Jan., 1860 Shut Ditto 30 Years, expire 10th Oct., 1859 Shut Ditto 30 Years, expire sth Apr., 1885 Shut India Stock Ditto Debentures 99 Ditto Bonds, £l,OOO Ditto under £l,OOO Consols for Account (April) March. June. Exchequer Bills, £l,OOO, 2d. & 11d.. 36 9 5 1 FOREIGN FUNDS—CLOSING PRICES. Buenos Ayres, 6 per Cont. Ditto Deferred Chilian, 6 per Cent Ditto 41 per Cent. Scrip 2l d Danish, 1825, 3 per Cent. Ditto 5 per Cent. Mexican 3 per Cent. Ditto Account Russian, 1822, £ St., 5 per Cent a — Ditto 41 per Cent. Sardinian, 5 per Cent. Ditto Account Spanish 3 per Cent Ditto New Deferred, 3 per Cent. Ditto Account • 3oa Turkish per Cent.• Ditto Account Ditto New Loan Ditto Account Venezuelan 5 per Cent. Ditto Deferred Dividends on the above payable in London. Dutch Exchange, 12 Guil. 21 per Cent — Ditto Certificates, 4 per Cent. THREE O'CLOCK. Consols, Money 9si 6 Consols for Account (April) 96 1 :: 201 20 •. • • 82: ` - 3 •• • • 44i Their Royal Highnesses the Duchess of Cam bridge and the Princess Mary honoured the Countess of Clarendon with their company last night, at her ladyship's " reception" in Grosvenor-crescent. Colonel Home Purves was in attendance on their royal highnesses. A small circle were present to meet the illustrious visitors. _ --- FATAL ACCIDENT.--Yesterday morning a fatal accident occurred to a man named William Baker, aged thirty years, who resided in Thames-street. It appears that the deceased went to drown a cat at Southwark bridge, when he slipped from one of the barges and fell in, and, being rapidly hurried away by the current, was drowned before assistance could arrive. THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 9, 1859. ( nothing, as the classes upon whom the favour was conferred already possessed the suffrage. (Hear, hear.) A lawyer must indeed be a briefless bar rister who did not live in a £lO house, and the medical man must be a doctor who had not a single stomach to practise upon who had not got a vote under the old system. (Laughter.) The bill dis franchised very largely, although it had been said it was one of enfranchisement. (Cheers.) Then, with respect to the voting papers, it was a little good to the sick and infirm, but it would be of no use to the bone and sinew of the country. (Cheers.) He did not see how the tenant could escape from his landlord by its adop t tion at all—it was a case of sign and deliver, or else out you go. The result would be that the land lords would keep all these letters signed, and then their nominees would be certain of being returned to Parliament. It had been said that if the Govern. ment bill was thrown out it was intended there should be a dissolution. He was not there to do a little bit of canvassing—(laughter and cheers) — but if such a thing was done, he would do his best endeavours to throw out the bill. He thought that would be most acceptable to the country. (Cheers.) Mr.. GEESON moved the second resolution, as bows : That the plan of Reform propounded by John Bright, is worthy the support of this meeting; more especially as the principles therein promulgated are those which the Reformers of Westminster have advocated during the last half century." Mr. BIDGOOD had great pleasure in seconding it. Mr. MANTLE reminded the meeting that they had passed a resolution in favour of manhood suffrage, and he thought it very injudicious to pro pose such a resolution. He moved, as an amend ment—" That in accordance with the previous resolution Mr. Bright be requested to make man hood suffrage the basis of his Reform Bill." (Loud cheers.) Mr. SEAWORTHY seconded the resolution. The CHAIRMAN put the amendment to the meeting, when it was carried amid loud cheers, only one hand being held up against it. Mr. GEORGE moved the third resolution, which was as follows : " That petitions be presented to both houses of Parlia- liament, in accordance vith the first resolution, signed by the chairman, on behalf of the meeting; that the Earl of Ripon be requested to present it to the Lords, and to the Commons by Sir De Lacy Evans; and that Sir John Vil liers Shelley be requested to support the same." The resolution, having been seconded, was carried unanimously. • A vote of thanks to the Chairman terminated the proceedings, Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock Stock 16/ 1613 4 Stock Stock Stock Stock 12 Stock 1 Stock Stock) Stock] Stock 50 Stock Stock Stock FOREIGN. ee Business Share' Railways. I Paid. Closing Doug. Antwerp & Rotterdam Ardennes Bah.&S.Fran.,Lim.7p.c Belgian East. Junction Beziers to Graissessac Carmeaux Mine & Dutch Rhenish Eastern of France Euphrates Valley Great Central of France Gt. Luxem., Con. ON Italian Junction Lake Constance & Bak Lierre and Turnhout Lombardo Venetian Lucca & Pi stoj a, 5 p.c.pf Lyons and Geneva Maria Antonia ......... Do. do. New 41 51 Id par k 2} ' 5 4i di 26! 271 j Namur and Liege Do. do. 6 p. c. Northern of France Do. New Shares Norwegian Trunk Pref 1 Ottoman, gua. 6 per cent Paris,Lyons, and Medit. Paris and Orleans Recife& S. Fran. (Peru.) gna. 7 p. et. (Lim.) Rya and Dunabur . g Rome and Frascati Royal Danish Royal Swedish Do. 7 per cent. Pref. Sambre and Meuse Do. 51 per cent. Fief." Southern of France West Flanders all all 8 all all 61 7 i I PI 8& 8 19f 20 37 374 81 fl -Pi Do. 5i p. c. Preforence . W. dr N.W. of France Western of Austria Western of Switzerland Wiesbaden Do 8 per cent. Pref Zealand 33} 33f 53 65 9 1 8 U 6. 9 - Ns 20; 21? 5 5' 9t 9 3 24;, BRITISH POSSESSIONS. HEALTH OF LONDON DUIUNG THE WEEK. (From the Registrar-(ieneral's Report.) The deaths registered in London in the week that ended last Saturday were 1,215, a number which shows but a trifling decrease on that of the previous week. In the ten years 1849-58 the average number of deaths in the weeks corresponding with last week was 1,199 ; but as the deaths in cluded in the present return occurred in a popu. lation which has increased, they can only be compared with the average after it is raised in proportion to that increase, namely, with 1,318. Hence the deaths of last week were less by about 100 than the number which would have occurred if a mortality equal to the average rate had prevailed. At the present time the population appears to enjoy a fair amount of health, if this is measured by the experience of London itself in former seasons ; sanatory defects become apparent on comparing its mortality with that of places in more favourable conditions. Whilst the deaths were low, the births were high, and the result is an excess in the latter, ac compared with the former, equal to 726. The mortality from small-pox again shows r.n increase, the deaths in the last four weeks having been successively 29, 13, 11, and 22. The disease seems to prevail in parts of the St. Luke and Bethnal-green districts. Last week there were 50 deaths from scarlatina, and 27 from diphtheria, being altogether 77, as compared with 68 in the previous week. Those from diphtheria occurred in sub-districts as follows :—Brompton 1, St. Paul Hammersmith 1, Chelsea North-west 1, Belgrave 1, St. John Westminster 1, St. Margaret, West• minster 1, Cavendish-square 1, Reget's-park 2 Tottenham -court 1, Kentish Town 1, Islington West 2, South Hackney 1, Goswell-street 1, Old-street 1, St. Leonard Shoreditch 1, Bethnal-green 1, Ratcliff 1, Poplar 1, Kent road 1, Lambeth Church second 1, Kennington first 1, Brixton 1, Clapham 1, and Wood wich Dockyard 2. Scarlatina was fatal in fire cases in St. Peter, Walworth. Out of 15 deaths from all causes in Somers Town, 10 were from zymotic disease s . A c hild di e d at 12, Brand-street, Islington, from cholera, after 22 hours' illness. A sewer cleanser, aged 30 years, was "poisoned by sewerage miasma." A woman died at the age of 93 years, and three men at the respective ages of 94, 95, and 97 years. Last week the births of 1,001 boys and 9-10 girls, in all 1,941 children, were registered" in London. In the ten corresponding weeks of the years 1849- 58 the average number was 1,703. MAIZICET.-(THIS DAY.) ORDINARY SHAY EtES AND STOCKS. Share Railways. LZ.iU 13.14 Stoeki Ain bcrz., Notting. Bost. and Eastern Juultion IZelfast and Ballymena.. Bir., Rol., and Str Val. Birk., Lane., and Chesil. 3 unction Blackburn •••• Blyth and Tyne........ Bristol and Exeter Caledonian Chester and liolyhetcl Cork and Bandon Cork, Blkrock,&Passage Cornwall A A rcves. no cm. D° ' until6p.c.per an. Do. B hasbeen pd.tcß. Dublin andßelfastJukc. Dun.,Pertli,& Abr. Julie. East Anglian • Eastern Counties Eastern Union A Stock Do. do. B Stock Do.Nw.A.(lte.E.U3ds) East Kent East Lancashire East Suffolk 6 61 71 8, 62 64 11 11& 31 33 93 44 85 85i 481 49g 5 81 91 15 16 6G 61 45 47 30 32 Do Edinburg and Glasgow Edin.,Perth, & Dundee Forth & Clyde Junction Furness Glasgow & South West]] Great North of Scotland Great Northern Do. do. A Stock Do. do. B Stock 'Gt. South.& Wstn.(lreld) Great Western Do. S tr.Vl.l? ail Gua.. Stk Irish South Eastern Lancaster and Carlisle Do. Thirds (Lancashire New Thirds ILancashire & Yorkshire Do. do. F Do. do. £9 shares Do. West Riding Union Do. Southport London and Blackwall Do.Newiss.at £slosp.sh Lon.,Brighton k.S.Coast London & North Westn Do. Eighths London& South-Westn. L'derry & Coleraine L'derry Sr Enniskillen Man., Shef., & Lincoln Metropolitan Midland Do. Birming. & Derby. Mid. Gt. West. (Ireland) Do. Shares New•castle and Carlisle New., Aber., & llerefd Newry & Armagh (def. , Newry, Warpt., & Ros Norfolk North. Counties Union North British Nor.Dev.RaiL&Dk. Stk Do.A Stk.— Arec.no div until 6p.c.hasbeenpdß Do. B Stock North-Eastn.--Berwick Do. do. G.N.E.Purchase Do. Leeds Do. York North London N. &S.Westn., Hampstd and City Junction North Staffordshire North-Western No. & Sou. W. Junction Oxford, Wor.,& Wolver l'eebles Portsmouth Rhymney Scottish Central Scoth. N.E., Aber. Stock Do. Scottish Mid. Stock Shropshire Union Sittingbourne & Sheer South Devon South-Eastern South Wales SouthYorks.&Riv.Dun Do. do Staines, Wok., & Wok Stockton & Darlington Do. do. 1854 Do. do. 1855 Stockton & Hartlepool Taff Vale Do. Preference, No. 1 ThamesHavenDk&Rail ,Vale of Neath Waterford & Kilkenny Waterford & Limerick, IWest Cornwall W-end Lon. & Cry. Pal ' Do.A.—Arecv.nodiv.till 7 p.c. has been pd. to B Do. B West London Do. Ist Class Do. 2d Class 1001 10: 75 77 1111 12 all 100 3i 100 100 100 100 100 1.613 4 100 100 100 I£3 le. 17i , all all 100 all 60 62 d 1 1 34 581 59} all all 221 7 16f 100 100 91i WI 1 3} d' 46 17 76 16} 101 102 11 . 1 li d 7 8 33 34 [l3 115 261 27} 84 85 46 47 3i 2# d 37# 38i 71} llf 64 66 12 14 j 8 11 361 371 100 100 all all all 711 OS 4 } 371 7 all all all all all I f 3 6k 61 IPaid. 1 Closing Business Pike. 85 1 5 49 81 coi I CO 1 1023 3i i 58 3 iii 95 i 1 I i 671 8 111 12 ',151 1 931 1 3 4 100 i U I 92i a 2 1; 47 6; I 77 6; l2i 13 121 33 1 sit Share 2 2° 01 100 100 190 17i 20 Stock Sto. Stock 20 204 20i 100€ !Atlantic & St Lawrence Leased at 6 per cent.. Bom.,Be.roda&Cent.lnd gu. 5 per cent po Do. Addit. Capital A Do. Do. Buffalo and Lake Huron Do. New Butfalo,Brant.&Godrich 6 p. ct. lxls. 1 Aug., 1872 Do. do. 1 July, 1873 Do. do. 1 June, 1874 Clcutta. &S. Eas trn. Lim. Cape,Eastn. Prov.(Lim.) Cape Town & Dock Scrip Central Oude (Limited) Ceylon Guaranteed 6p.c Demerara Eastern Bengal.gu.sp.c East Indian, 211. 5 p. c Do. C Shares Do. E Shares Ext Do. Jubbulpore Do.‘ii p.c. Bds. pay.'s9 G eelong& Mel.gua.s p. c. Geelong Corporation 6 per cent. Bonds Grand Trunk of Canada Do. 6 p.c. Deben.,pay.'7B Do. 6 per cent. Pref G t.indiaPenin.gua.sp.c Do. New, gua.s per cent Do. do Gt. S. of Ind. Lim. —Scrip guaranteed 5 per cent. Gt.W. of Canada Shares Do. New Do. Bonds pay. '76,with ept. till '6O Do. do. '73 till '6O Do. do. '73 without opt Do. 54 p. c. do. '77 do Madras, guar., 44 p. c Do. do. 5 per cent Do. 41 p. c. Extension Do. Third Ex. gua.s.p.c Do. Fourth do. Melb. Corp. 6 p.c. Bonds Newßrunswick&Cauda. Ry.&Land(Lim.)g.f,pc I Class ACapitl.Share Do. do. Land do Do. do. B. Capital do Po. do. Land do , Northof India Tramroad Limited, Scrip Oude-(Limited) ..... Scinde .4 1 Do. Do. New a 8 Do. Punjaub '4.1 Do. Indus. St. Flo. bk. n .," St. Andrews & Quebec A Frinidad(Limited) Scrip all Jl3l all 41 all 164 }lOO 79 81 'lOO 100 1. 3.0, id par 28.6 d. 2 all 5 100 all all all 1 100 I d 7 7 d -d, 85 90 82 86 80 84 par I p t i P i d par 105 106 ) 2s. all 1 V lall all all all all all 102} 4} 14 16 8 Railways. I p.m ' Closing Business Price. Done. 4/ 5 l uSi i It 15: 5/ 351 5 6 6 /5 74 14 13 93 94 704 71 27 27, 95 97 10 103 103 103 88 89 133 134 103 i 1041 571 .571 54 56 8.5 90 12 13 p 12 13 pl 95i 96 id I id 67 69 11 112 95 1)5 1 93 934 38 38 PREFERENCE SHARES. Railways. Blythe and Tyne It per c. pref. (Issued at £50)1 Bris. Si Exet.4p.et.Stockl Do. do. do. Shares Caledon £lO, 4i per cent Do. Quar. Shares, No. 2. Chester & llolyhd, 5i pc Do. do. 5 p. ct. Cork & Bandon, 5} p. c. Dun. Pe: th, & Aber.Jun. E.Atuy,n. Class A 7 & spc Do. do. Class B 6 pc.... Do. do. Class C 7 pc .... E. Coun. Ex. 5 pct. No.l Do. do N 0.2 Do. New 6 per et. Stock Eastern Union, 4 per ct. East Lanc. 6 per ct E.& W. York. Jcn. fifths Edin.&Glas. spc shares Edin. Perth,& Don. 4 pc. Furness., 5 per cent alas. &S West. , : - a, spe Great Northern, 5 p. ct 1)o.5 pc Rechn.,lop.c.prn Do. 41 p. c. do. do. Do.np.e. Redm.,s pc. pm Gt. Nh. of Seotld, Ist pt f Gt.Sn..tr, W (Treland)4 1 p. ct. pref. Stock Great West. (Berks and Rants) Ext. 5 p.ct Do. Redeemable, 4] p ct Do. Redeemable, 4 p. et Do. Irredeemable, do Do. 5 p. ot. Redeem. Pref Do. Birm. Pref. Shares Gt. West. Ches. Bp.c.pf shares Do do. 5 p. ct. pref.... Do Birming. guar. stock Do. Chester guar.shares Do. do. do Do. do. do. Lan. & York 6 p.c. stock Lon.&Brig.spc. gu. No.l Do. pref., 5 p. C. ...No. 2 Do. New gua., 6 p. ct Do. do. 5p c. No. 4 Lon. & N. W. Cov. &Nun eaton. 5 p. et. Lo n . &s. W, 7 p.ct. stock, late 3(1 sliares Londondy & Cole, 4 slis Londoudy.& Ennis 4 sh Man.,Sh., tic Lin., 6 p. ct Do. £6 Do. 34 per cent. Maryport & Car., 4 p.c Do. 4 per cent Do. Mid. Con. 6 p. c. Stock Do.Con.Bris.&Bir.6p.ct Do. 4 p. c. pref. stock Do. with option till 1860 Do. Leic. & Hit.pref. at. Newport,Aber,&c.pret.s p. c. redeem, at 5 p.c.n Do. Pcrpet, Gp. c. with option till 1866 Norfolk Deb. 4 p.e.shares Do. 5 p. c. Ext.. t0ck,1846 Do. 5 p. c. Pref. do. 1847 Do. Way.rhi.Ex.Sk 1847 North British, 5 per cent Do. New, mu.. 5 per cent D*.k.Co. N-East. irred. 4 p.c. Deb. Do. Berwick, 4 p. c. Pref. Do. do. do. Do. Leeds, 6 p. c. No. 1 Do. do. Quarters, 1846 Po. York, H. k S. Purch North Staffordshire Ox. wr. & Wol. 6 pc. Ist g Do. do. do.. 2d gua Do. 41 p.c. Db. stk.in perp Scottish Central, new pt Scottish N.-Eastern deb Do. 34 per c. pref. stock Do. Aberdeen. gua. 6 pc. Do. 7 p. c. pref. stock. South Devon, Ann. 10s. Do. Fixed 4} per cent. South Eastern (Reading , Ann., 1.0.6.) Do .41 per cent Do. Fixed 41 p.c. Ist is. Do. New do., 2d issue. South wales, gua. 4 p.c. Do. 44 per cent S.-Yorkshire, 4 p.c. gna.i Stockton and Dar. 5 p.e. Do. 6 per cent IWater ford & Kilkenny, I 6 percent. all }lOO 100 100 100 100 all Closing Paid./ rrice. 49 51 94 96 !103 103 1 125 127 116 118 6 6i 98 101 110 116 108 112 115 117 114 116 132 134 80 82 74 76 113 115 118 120 110 112 101 106 64 66 11 11i 94 96 85 87 86 88 99 101 01 101 16 17 91 101 72 74 18 191 } 14 1 44 140 142 1118 120 1160 165 123 125 69" 7f 139 141 100 102 P 94 96 91 91 llt 111 9 9 1112 114 964 074 d d i p 231 231 122 124 113 115 99 101 . 101 10 21.1 25 1102 101 1102 104 161' 171 28i 29i 33 34 49 51 LINES LEASED AT FIXED RENTALS. Railways. Bedford and Dictaley Buckinghamshire .... Clydesdale Junction .. Colchester, Stour Val. lillAnco basil! re,g.flp.c. Union,liarwichShs. all I Ln N.W 100 ILn& N.W 100 Caledonin all E.U.&E C 100 Gt. North. all E.Counts. 100 100Caledonin I ioo Do. all Gt. West all Yk.N.&Br all Yk.N.A.td. all Do. all Do. 100 S. East inn IDo. 100 Peto &Co all Do. 100 Norfolk 100 Do. all LN W&M all Stk.& Dar 100 Midland . 5. 6. a. E.Counts. all Do. • all 130. ••• • • • all Da . L&* all & L.Yk. all Do , 100 IGt.North 18 11 6 Lan.& Yk all T BraMoy all 31`Clean . all Stk.&Dar all Da .. •• • 100 Gt. Vest. all L.Arllrgtn Do. Woodbridge Gls.Barr.&Neils,Drct. Do. New Gloster& Deau Forest' Hartlpool.Delc.&ltail 1 Hull and Selby Do. 4 Shares Do. I Sh.tres London&Greenwich Do. Preference Lon.,Tilby.&Soutend. Do. Barking Shares Lowestoft, gua. 4 p. ct Do. 6 per cent Manc.,Buxtn. & Matk Mids b.& Redcr, p;.6p.c Mid.BradfordPrt. Stk Newmarkt.,BuryEx I guaranteed 5 p. c. Northn.& Eastn. 5 p.c. Do. do. 6 per cent Do. Fixed 5 per cent Preston and Wyrc. Do. Shares A. Roystn,llitch.,& Shep Slif. toth.&Gol.g.sp.c. Shrowsbry& II eretord South Staffordshire .. Wear Valley, g. 6 p. c. Do. do. Wilts and Somerset Wimbledon& Croydn DOCKS. Paid. Leas ing Closing B us iness Au Co. 's. Price. Done. 97 99 103 105 17 18 143 145 91 41 109 111 1 64 64 1115 120 91 92 2i 1! 96 98 ip 57 59 1138 140 11 9 k 11] 90 92 8 9 Share Docks. Paid Closing I Business Price. Done. Stock Commercial lOO Stock Do4perCent.Pref.MM lOO Stock East and West India.— 100 Stock London lOO Stock St. Katharine lOO Stock Southampton lOO Stock Victoria 20 1)0 Yew • • ...• 000000 .11 I. 1 $ ':. Business Done. 19 20 34 36 73 75 91 93 1014 1i 41 ; par Ipi 4f 151 16f 41 it 100 105 100 105 100 105 96 OS lif IS 20 20 181 19. d par d par -- d -d 1p 20 21 par Ix d Id par BRITISH MINES. Shari Mines. 1 Closing Business Paid. Price. Done. Alfred Consols (Philack) 2.11.10 61 75 pritish Iron Condurrow (Camborne) 2O I 10 Devon G. Cons. (Tavist.) 1 1405 475 Nast Bassett (Mogan). 30 210 220 Great South Tolgus 17s 112 13 G.WhealAlfd.(Phillack) 11.18.8 35 35 G. Wheal Vor(Helston) ok , 5. i t Lady Bertha North Frances (lllog,an) 81 6 7 North Wheal Crofty 7.9.4 6 75 N.WIII, Basset (Illogan) nil. 91 101 -- Par Consols (St. Illaxy) 11 154 161 Porkellis Unit. (Wend.) 9 Sortridge Cons. Min. Co. 6s 1 SouthCaradon (St.Cleer) 2/ 450 460 I—• South C. Brea( Illogan). 2 2l 21 S Wheal Fran. (Mogan) 18.18.9 210 220 5 Tamar Silver and Lead Mining Co 4l 15 2 10 Tin Croft 9 35 4 UnitedMines(Gwennap) 40 Vale of Towey (Carm.) 128 ad West Basset (Mogan) l5 21 23 W. Cartulon (Liskeard) 2O 725 775 Wheal Basset (Mogan) 55 210 220 Wheal Buller (Redruth) 5 120 130 • Wheal Edward (Cale.) 55 35 35 35 Wheal Kitty (U. Lelant), 1.7.2 11 12 --WWI Mary Ann (Merihe) , 8 48 5 -- WWI Trelawncy (Lisk.) 44 31 33 32 FOREIGN MINES 20 Australian 1 800 Accorcleopper,Lini. 103 p 35 Brazil. Imp. (is. at £sp.) 27 1 1 20 Do.St.Johndelßey,Lim. 15 11 12 5 Do. Land and Mining Co. all 15 25 1 Clarendon Consols Min ing Co. of Jamaica ... 40 Co b le Copper all 30 38 Copiapo l6 10 12 1 DunMoun.Cop.Ming.Co all 2 Fortuna 20 General all 22. 235 3 Linares all 9 10 91 5 Di sitanian 1 Mariquita all i• 5 1 New Granada all 1 N.RhineCop.of S.Aus.L 10 1 a p 20 Pontgibaud Silver, Lead Mining and Smelt all 4 5 5 Port Philip 1 1 30 Santiago de Cuba l6l 1 11 28.2.81 United Mexican all i 21 3 COLONIAL GOVERNMENT SECURITIES. Share Securities. Pa id . Closing Bus Lucie Prices. Done. - Can.Gov.6p.c..Ta. &July 100 1131 1141 Do. 6 p.c.FbArAug. 100 112 114 Do. 6 p.c.3lr. k Sep. 100 112 113 N.B.Gov.a p.c. Ja. &Tilly 100 1111 1125 Do. 6 p.c.Ap. dz Oct. 100 - N. S.W. Gov. sp. c. Deb. 100 102 103 NovaScotiaGov.6 p.c. St. Deb. redeemable, 1875 100 1115 1125 S.Aus.Gt.apc.Jan&July 100 111 112 Vict•Gov.6p.c.Jan&July 100 • JOINT-STOCK BANKS, Share' Joint-Stock Banks. Agra&UnitedServiceßk Australasia Bank of Egypt Bank of London Brit. Col. Bk. & LoanCo British North American Chtd. Bank of India, &c City Colonial Com. Bank of Canada Commercial of London Eng., Scat., & Aus. Ch Gen. Bk. of Switzerland Lon. Char. Bk.otAustral. London and County London Joint Stock London & Westminster Nat. Prov. of England Do. new National Bank New South Wales Pa i d. Closing 1 Business Price. I Done. 24 26 45 47 1t 1 d 62 65 100 20.11 Ha 16 Orient. Bk. Corporation Ottoman Bank Provincial of Ireland . • Do. New South Australia Do. New Union of Australia Do. New Union of London Unity Mutual Western Bk of Loudon 22 22 21i 22 20 19d1 Share 8 9 22 1 2 294 100 10 Stock Stock) 49} 8/ 21: I 67i 27} 7 53} 24& 5 MISCELLANEOUS. C p lo r s ic h : . g Zutiness done 13 134 220 250 32 34 I I 24 34, 3 4 38 1 19 21 13 15 120 126 9 10 24 25 11 11 41 6 99 101 }P d 11 14 11 d 1/It .41 I 1 1 1 2 1 111 i i 1 die par 8 4 a 121 l.3 p A 211 7 71 62 64 117 k 1271 361 371 1 1 9 11 1114 rellanQous. Anglo-Mexican Mint Atlantic Tel. (Limited) Australian Agricultural Australian Royal Mail . Berlin Water Works Do New, issued at £5 dis British American Land Brit. & Irish MazTel.A. Do. B, 7 p. c. till Do. C . Canada Land Chan.lslands Tel.(Lim ) Cop.Min.oi Eng.& Smltg Do. Preference 74 per ct Crystal Palace. Do. Preference Eastern Steam Electric Telegraph Eng. & Aust. Cop.St.Co Europ. & Ind.Junct.Tel Europ.&Am.Stm.(Lim ) Clifton ScrewCol.(Lim Gen. Steam Navigation London Discount Lon d.Gen . Omnibus Co fediter. Electric Teleg Med. Exten. Tel. (Lim ) National Discount Co Netherlands Land Do do Do 8 p.c.Pref.,iss.at I dig N. Br.&NovaScotiaLand N.B.Australasian (Lim.) North of Europe Steam Oriental Gas Do. New Shares P P e e n el . R jz i o ve ri r e L n a t n al d s & te l i a l m in Do. New Red , Sea & Ind. Teleg,r Rhymney Iron Do. New Royal Mail Steam S c ot.Austrln.lnv.(Lim,) South Australian Land. Submarine Teleg. Scrip. Do. do Registered (Tr.& Ln.Co.ol Upr. Can, Van Diemen's Land MPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY). (Continued from the Sun of last night.) THE CHARLES ET GEORGES. The Earl of MALMESBURY said—My lords, I am sure, as a member of her Majesty's Government, I do not at all find fault with the noble lord for bringing forward this subject. It is his duty, as a member of the Opposition, to watch carefully whether the Ministers of the Crown faithfully maintain the honour of the country and the faith of treaties. I will go further, and thank the noble lord per sonally fur having brought forward this subject, which has been more mistaken and misapprehended than any other I ever remember. lam therefore obliged to him for giving me an opportunity of setting the house and the country right upon many points involved in this case, upon which, as I have said, there have been grave misapprehensions. I will begin by explaining why the despatch for which the noble lord has moved was omitted from the papers placed before Parliament. The explanation is very simple. That despatch was in the same sense as the one of the 15th of Oct., to which the noble lord has referred, and was, in fact, a telegraphic despatch, which anticipated the other, con taining the same sentjnents in a necessarily abbreviated form. Your lordships are aware that our diplomatic corres pondence is now conducted somewhat differently- to what used to be the case, much of it being conveyed through the telegraph. It would be difficult, if not impossible, for any Minister to produce to Parliament entire and faithful copies of those despatches, for this reason, that he would run a very great risk of allowing our cipher to be discovered—a consequence of too great importance not to be deeply con sidered. (Hear, hear.) In laying such papers before Par liament, therefore, a Minister is obliged to alter the terms and expressions, at the same time that he furnishes, as far as possible, a true and faithful outline of the terms of the despatch. (Hear, hear.) In that, of course, Parliament must trust to the honour of the Minister to give the real sense ; and I am sure any Minister of this country will be always willing, if it be supposed that he has mistaken or imperfectly stated the sense of a particular despatch, to show the exact terms to any member who may desire it. But it is much more difficult to alter the terms of any despatch, if written at any length and placed in juxtaposition with another despatch, as this was with that of the 15th of October. I can only say that if the noble lord wishes to see that despatch, which I hold in my hand at this moment, it is at his service, and that of any noble lord opposite ; or if it should be thought likely to prove of public service, I will have it printed and added to the papers before Parliament. I will now enter upon the case of the Charles et Georges, to which the noble lord has called attention. In the first place I must remark that if the Government is to be judged justly, they must be judged according to the knowledge which they had at the time, and not by the facts which have become subsequently known to them. The noble lord has alluded to several points connected with the case of the Charles et Georges which have become known since the period when those matters were under discussion. The whole conduct of the Government depends upon the truth of their allegation—and truth it is—that the case was at the time utterly obscure and uncertain. They had only ono side of the case, and that full of contradiction from begin ning to end, so that it was impossible to find any evidence upon which to decide whether Portugal had entirely right on her side, or whether she could justify the peremptory step she had taken of seizing the ship and imprisoning the captain. When the point first came before me I could not discover at the time whether the captain of the vessel was aware of the new proclamation that had been issned against the slave trade. It is probable, indeed, that he was not, for that proclamation was not issued until the 20th of Nov., and the vessel was seized on the 27th of that month. Here is the statement of Mr. Howard on the 28th of August upon that point : "It is necessary that I should here state that the late Governor of Mozambique, Senhor Menezes, not having given due effect to the prohibition of the exportation of ne groes as free labourers, contained in the Portarias of the Minister of Marine and Colonies of February 27, 1855, and July 30, 1856, was recalled on that account, as I reported at the time, and Col. Tavares d'Almeida was sent out as governor by the Viscount de Sa for the express purpose of enforcingsuppressing that prohibition, and of otherwise the, slave tra d e. Colonel Almeida arrived, it appears, at Mo zambique about 15 days, or three weeks, before the affair of the Charles et Georges took place, and it was under his directions that the measures for her apprehension were taken." Your lordships perceive that the new governor only arrived a fortnight or three weeks before, and it was by his direction that these measures were taken. At page 8 your lordships will find that the date of the proclamation was November 20, and the vessel was seized on the 27th, many miles away from the Mozambique. It struck me that the first point to consider was, whether the captain might not have been ignorant of the policy of the new governor, the former governor having been dismissed for not only conniving at the slave trade, but actually taking part in it. At page 48 of the papers there is the French account of the matter : " What had happened, his Excellency said, was this : The captain of the Charles et Georges had received orders from the Governor of Reunion to procure negroes under the emigration system ; but he was expressly forbidden by his instructions to take any from Mozambique, the Portuguese Government having prohibited all emigration from thence. The captain, however, received information that this prohi bition did not extend to the district of Matabane, the Sheik of which had authority from the Portuguese Government to furnish negroes for emigration. He went there accord ingly, and the Sheik furnished a certain number." Well, then there was the custom-house question; for your lordships must remember that there were two complaints made by the Portuguese Government,—first, that the muni cipal laws had been violated by the ship anchoring in a place where vessels were forbidden to enter ; and next,that she was engaged in the slave trade. It must also be borne in mini that the Portuguese Government subsequently dropped the first ground of complaint, and confined themselves to the latter. Now, my lords, if I may refer to s ubsequent proof, it seems to me to be extremely doubtful even at this moment whether the French captain violated the municipal law of Portugal—that is to say, whether his vessel was ever anchored within three miles of the shore, as alleged. In support of that view I would refer to the evidence of the captain himself, which has never been refuted .. . by the Go.; vernor of Mozambique , or b y an y one else, and which has_ been published by the Portuguese 4t These " alluding to the negro labourers, "whi c h I took at Matibane and Conducia were procured forme by the Sheik named Ali Kery, who holds an authorisation of his Excellency the Governor-General of Mozambique, dated 1856, and who has taken a commission of September 6 piastres, or 30f. per head." Now, it is true that the authorisation in question is said to have been a forgery, but there was at the time nothing to prove to us that such was the case, and her Majesty's Go vernment could only form a judgment on the matter from the ex parte reports. The statements made by the Portu guese were met by counter statements by the French, so that your lordships will perceive her Majesty's Govern ment had no data upon which they could rely in order to enable them to arrive at a correct decision as to which of the contending parties was in the right and which was in the wrong. (Hear, hear, from Lord Grey.) The noble earl cheer s b ecause , no doubt, it is in accordance with his opinion that a rapid, and therefore, in all probability, a rash decision should be arrived at on a question of this nature. But what, my lords, does the French captain say in answer to the questions put to him by the commander of the Portuguese cruiser ? He was asked : " Was the Charles et Georges above a gunshot from the shore ?—Most assuredly, if you take in the Island of Quin tangonia, which is not part of the continent. " Captain, was your gun shotted ?—Yes, captain. " Did the ball touch the shore ?—Almost. 66 But did you send the ball from the spot when you dropp9d your anchor ?—I am not compelled to do that ; the rule is, when you are within range you fire your gun and board the ship. " My impression has always been that when a man-of war is in sight of several ships or boats and also in sight of land, and if he does not hoist his flag, he ought at least to have the streamerk of his' nation ?—True, but nevertheless not obligatory. " But would the ball have reached the shore if fired from the place where I was anchored ?—No ; but you lay on Portuguese ground with 11 or 12 fathoms of water. " The fact is, you aro pretty certain that the ball would not have reached the coast if fired from the place where I lay:and it did not reach it from the place where you lay ? No answer. " How far does the Portuguese territory extend to th S.E. or the S. S. from the Isle of Quintangonia ?—No answer." Now, I do not moan to give any opinion ns to whether the French captain was right or wrong. All I say is that her Majesty's Government had during the progress of those transactions—nay, have not up to this eleventh hour, any data upon which a sound opinion in ref erence to this question could be formed. The noble lord who has just spoken has a great horror of the system of immigra tion with which these events are mixed nu. lam as much opposed to it as he can possibly be ; but the question is not a matter of mere feeling, it is whether we as responsible Ministers of the Crown were to be led away by considera tions of that description, and not to form an unbiassed judgment upon the rights themselves which were involved in a case of this immense importance. You do not suppose, my lords, that I was ignorant of the treaties which existed between this country and Portugal ; noua.n you, I am sure, fail to be of opinion that before we resurfed to commit our selves to a course involving serious consequences it was our dqty to make ourselves perfectly certain that Portugal was in the right and France in the wrong in the dispute in which they were engaged. (Hear, hear.) And, my lords, I repeat that even up to the present moment we have been furnished with no data upon which such a decision could ir.irly be pronounced. (Hear, hear.) Now, what, let me w;k, was the course which, under these _circum s t ances , h er `lajesty's Government adopted? I am accused by the noble lord opposite with respect to two points. He charges me with having lost ti me , and with not having written enough. Well, the first intimation which I received that this matter had assumed a serious aspect was upon the 18th of September, when Mr. Howard wrote to me to the fol lowing effect : " The affair of the French vessel Charles et Georges, condemned at Mozambique as a slaver, treated of in my despatches of the Gth and 7th inst., has assumed a very serious aspect." . That despatch was received on the 24th, and I might per haps have telegraphed on that day to Lord Cowley. 13 tit be that as it may, I lost scarcely any time in the matter, inas much as I telegraphed to that noble lord on the 25th. Now Lord Cowley, as your lordships are aware, is one of those Ministers who l° not require that a long rigmarole, if I may so term it, of phrases and instructions—which are gene rally, I believe, written rather for Parliament than for the Minister—should be addressed to him. It was therefore quite sufficient, I am sure you will think in this instance, to inform him that our good offices were offered for the set tlement of the misunderstanding between France and Por tugal, and that to enter upon any lengthened explanation as to what the words '" good offices" meant would be as useless as absurd. Well, my lords, I telegraphed, as I mentioned, to Lord Cowley on the 25th, and within five days from that time he informs us—as you will observe by referring to page 17 of the papers—that the case, he be lieves, may be settled. He writes : " Count Walewski's language was very conciliatory. I feel certain he regrets that the cause has arisen, and will gladly see it settled." But the noble lord seems to think that, having received that announcement on the 30th Sept., her Majesty's Govern ment ought to have written some eloquent despatch, threat ening the: French Government with the treaty, and ex pressing in strong langu age th e v i ews w hi c h we entertained. Now, fdo not pretend to know human nature so well as the noble lord, who is a diplomatist, and has represented this country in that capacity at one of the great courts of Europe ; but I doubt whether, in using the petulant lan guage which the noble lord appears to regret we did not use, we should be a c ti ng w i sely, particularly when we were told that the language employed by the French Minister was of a most conciliatory character. (Hear.) But to proceed, my lords, her Majesty's Government had every reason to be lieve on the 30th of September that this question would be satisfactorily settled. Upon the 3d of October, however, Lord Cowley complained that a change had taken place in the language of the French Government. He says : "It seems now that at a Council of Ministers held yester day morning, and presided over by the Emperor, the fact that the vessel had been condemned as a slaver was first broached, and it was decided that the condemnation as a slaver of a French ship having a Government delegate on board, authorised to hire African labourers, was tantamount to connecting the Imperial Government with the traffic in slaves, and was derogatory to the honour of France. It was resolved, therefore, that the release of the Charles et Georges and of her captain should be peremptorily demanded and insisted upon." You will perceive from this despatch, my lords, that the affair had assumed the aspect in the eyes of the French Minister of one in which a point of national honour was involved. The noble lord opposite, however, seems to sneer at the axiom laid d own b y t h e Government of France—for it is laid down—that if a vessel has a French agent on board her, who is responsible for his acts to the Government which he represents, ! she is no longer to be looked upon in , the light of a mere private ship, liable to be confis cated for an infringement of municipal law. That is an axiom which is borne out by international law, and the noble lord will find that it is supported by much higher au thority than mine. But there is involved in this view of the subject another point, which is of considerable impor tance ; it is that in the case of a vessel seized for an infrac tion of municipal or international law, if she be a Govern ment ship the question at issue must be solved by diplomacy and not by a peremptory act such as that which was re sorted to by the Portuguese Government. Such I believe to be the opinion of the best lawyers of our day, and if that practice were not followed, as it lias been in almost every instance, constant disputes would bo the result. (Hear.) The Portuguese themselves have not always been so prudent on these points as they may perhaps expect others to be, and one of the greatest outrages committed of late years upon a British ship, has at this moment been committed by them not far from this very sea. The fact is that this system of negro immigration is not to be put down by force ,• and I feel sure, that had her Majesty's Government acted in the spirit which characterised the noble lord's speech, the result would have been very different, and we should not now have been able to enter into negotiations which it may be hoped will lead to the abandonment of this system. I said that on the 3d of October a change took place in the language of Count Walewski. I felt it my duty on the in stant to put forward the protocol of 185 G, which, I submit, was quite sufficient, inasmuch as Lord Cowley was present when it was signed, and must have known its sense and its full value ; and I am rather surprised that the noble lord should have treated so very cavalierly my reference to so important a document, your lordships well knowing that that protocol was one of the most beneficent and useful public acts on record. It is a document which lam sure will prevent a great effusion of blood hereafter, and it has already tended to put an end to more than one dispute be tween nations. I say I am surprised that the noble lord should treat so cavalierly the instructions given by me with reference to the protocol, and considering that he may be regarded :in some sort as the political pupil of the noble earl (Clarendon), lam still less able to understand the views he has expressed on this point. Acting, then, on the instructions which he received to insist on the protocol of Paris, Lord Cowley put himself in communication with Count Lavredio and the Marquis de Paiva, and on the 13th he reports that an amicable solution will be arrived at. Her Majesty's Government were induced by his despatches to believe that if the Charles et Georges were given up and the Captain released, the French Ministry would ad mit the mediation of a friendly Power, both as remards the legality of the seizure and th e ques ti on o f indemnity. There is no doubt that the French Government acceded to this proposed arrangement, for Count Walewski himself says he did so. Lord Cowley, in reporting, (November 9) an inter view which he had with the French Minister says,— " I said that the 23d protocol was exactly framed to meet questions of this nature, where both parties claimed to be in the right ; but Count Walewski interrupted me by declaring that the French Government had never de clined to submit the question of right to friendly mediation. What they had refused was mediation of any kind so long as the Charles et Georges was detained, but he could give me the positive assurance that if, even at the eleventh hour, the Portuguese Government had released the ship, and proposed to settle the question of right and wrong, through a mediator, the proposal would have met with the assent of the Imperial Government. But Portugal could not retain the ship and propose mediation at the same time ; at all events, it was impossible for the Imperial Govern ment to entertain such a proposition. I remarked to Count Walewski that it was to be regretted that M. de Lisle had not better understood the sentiments of his Government, ter that on inquiry being made of hint, he had stated that the only point on which his instructions would permit hint to accept the principle of mediation was that of the amount of the indemnity to be paid for the detention of the Charles et Georges. Count Walewski replied that it was true that the instructions addressed to M. de Lisle only mentioned in demnity as the subject for mediation, but that it stood to reason that the question of indemnity carried with it the question of right, since before a mediator could say what amount of indemnity was due, he must satisfy himself that the right to receive en indemnity existed. I rejoined that although it was of little value now as regarded the main question, I rejoiced to receive this assurance front his Ex cellency, because it showed that I had faithfully reported his intentions to her Majesty's Government in saying, that if the ship was released the French Government would con sent to submit all the questions arising out of it to friendly mediation. Beyond doubt,' said Count Walewski, such was our intention.' " Now, what blame can be attached to her Majesty's Government for not expecting that that agreement would be fulfilled ? (Hear.) We did not possess the gift of prophecy, and could not predict that the French Minister at Lisbon would mistake his orders. Lord Cowley, as I have said, obtained a positive assurance that an arrangement would be come to, and surely we were justified in cre di t i ng it. A great deal has been made oofetaobdeer.spatch whi c h I wrote su b sequently on the 16th of My explanation with regard to this despatch is very simple. I was out of town at the time, and when I wrote it I had not received the letter of the 13th stating that an amicable solution would be come to. I wrote that des patch, thinking its contents might be useful in the way of suggestion to Lord Cowley if he failed in his offer of the good offices of this country ; but as it was it was never acted - upoir, and has no bearing whatever upon the results which - followed. Having received the assurance that a mediation -.would be admitted by the French Ministry, I do not deny that the Government were greatly astonished when a weer afterwards they heard that the question had been suddenly and summarily settled. The noble lord says Mr. Howard d Was without any instructions. Of course he was. We not give him instructions upon a case which we esercould be expected to foresee. We could not frame his instructions in this sense : "If the French Government eat theirwords e ee ld —if the French Minister makes a mistake—You _yright in must do so and so." When, at last, Mr. Howard's advice was sought for by the Portuguese Government he es"-aarf 1 matter of common giving it as he did, and in suggesting a nipeat . the offer to rn sense that they would do well to accept at once 8 refer the question of indenit withhoouultd athtempetquestoay down n l of right. This is the last place in which any principles with regard e ither to individual or natio na l them th ia honour. A man's honour can best not b le l e am j nod thegeir Portuguese Government I and so it is with a nation. Ido wou u ld ca b lui e r and e n luide aided s t terested Government if they thoughtthNavtauthaetonllzthonourable course was to refuse the offer which of ~a s right in saying, " accept the mediation; but when they asked theinadis?ocre it is impossible that they can avoid the question of right, fAilire.nldiomwatrdhe 'EnglishM. for no damages at all can be given by the mediator unless he decides first that Portugal is in the wrong." In that point of view Portugal would have lost nothing by Cession svhieh Mr. Howard suggested ; and thiswas the view which, as I have shown, Count Walewski himsel took on the question. (Hear.) We have been blamed for not acting with sufficient vigour and decision. Well, there certainly was another alternative, and I really only know of one, which would have been if, feeling certain that Portugal was right (of which at this moment we are not convinced), or not caring whether Portugal was right or wrong, we had said-" We will stand by you according to the treaty of 1703, and if you will resist France we will support you." We might, indeed, have said this, but should we have been acting in accordance with a case very analogous—the case of the Cagliari ? The French Government denied from the beginning the jurisdiction both of the first court in which the Charles et Georges was condemned, and of the Court of Appeal to which the case was afterwards carried. 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