The Sun. — London, England, 1858-05-04 00:00:00

---- _ s position is incapable of pro-f. (HPar, hear.) There Was one point of the hon. gentleman's speech, however, in which I entirely concurred. I dept , re as touch be does the great expenditure of this country in armaments, and I regret that the state of affairs should render that expenditure necessary. (Hear, hear.) Ido not, how suer, despair that—not immediately, perhaps, but in a few seasons, and when some of the excitement that has prevailed unhappily of late has passed away—the wits dom of Cabinets will bring about such a reducti,m of Military expenditure expenditure as would be beneficial to the interests of all tatio-s. (Hear.) But that is only to be done by frank communications, by encourag :._ . . ing a spirit, not Only in this country, but among our more immediate neighbours, not of that exasperation which unfortunately has prevailed of late, but of mutual kindness and confiderce, and which, notwithstanding the sneers we have heard, we must all see it to be the interest of both nations to encourage, and the great body of the population to adopt and sanction. (Hear, hear.) This is not an occasion on which I ought to touch on these points, but I have not brought them into debate. (Hear.) Unquestionably expenditure de pends on policy. I make no comments on the policy that is past, but I say for that which is at present pur• sued that it has no other objects to maintain than the honour of thi s coun t r y an d t o conc iliate the kindness of foreign nations. (Cheers.) Mr. WILSON said Mr. Gladstone had observed that the late Chancellor of the Exchequer might, if he thought proper, have appropriated the sums that were in his bands to pay off the Exchequer bonds. The right hon. gentleman, however, must know that the . state of the law and the state of the facts prevented his doing that. The late Chancellor of the Exchequer had four millions and a half of the war income tax at his disposal last year, and they had two millions, 'in bonds falling due, but he bad no authority whatee. r to pay off those bonds out of the sum in his heeds. The only way in which he could'have paid them would have been by going int-, the marketed purchasing the bonds atan extravagant price. H• had no means of receiving the meney, because the Sinking Fund Act required that any surplus there was at th e end of a quarter should be applied under that act. The charge, therefore, against the late Chancellor of the Exchequer was entirely unfounded, inasmuch as it was I impossible for him in the state of the law to apply any money last year to the payment of bonds due this year. There were some points in the budget which appeared to him ro require explanation. He could not bring him• Ralf to believe that the calculations of the right hon. gen tleman 'Weald prove to be correct. The Chancellor of the Exchequet stated that in the last year the receipt from customs was 23,100 0001., that the actual receipt Was 23,300,000/. ; but 200,0001. had been left in the hands of the collectors for he purpose of paying the sala ries; and that, therefore, the actual receipts should be taken at 23,300,0001. Now, though there was a balance of 200,00 N. left in the outports this year, there was a balance left f 207.0001. last year for the same purpeees, and therefore the right hon. gentleman was not entitled to take credit for that 200,0001 as a balance which would be applicable to • the expenditure of the present Year. Again, the right hon. gentleman admitted that there was a mini of 400 0001. in the receipts of last year, Which pr o perly belonged to the year before. That 400 ,0001. was Dearly 600,0001., and it arose from the additional quantity of tea on which duty was paid. If that were so; the right hon. gentleman would have to chow...than he would have an increase of 900,000/. on Custodial upon the receipts of last year. Then with re gisrd to the Excise, which the right hon. gentleman had taken at 18,600.0001., and in which he expected an in crease of 300,000/., notwithstanding the exceptional cir cumstances of last year. With regard to the Post-office, the right hon, gentleman had taken an increase of 300,e1001. He did not exeect that increase from the re. ceipts, but only from the balances which he said were i tu the b on d s o f th e country postmasters. L ast year, "wlneer, there was a balance in their hands of 390,000/., Which ought to go against the 300,0001. balance this Y e ar.. He did not think the tight hon. gentleman had a right, to expect a general increase in the revenue this Year as compared with last year. The exports to the t li b ra ie it;k e l a S r, tatas had fallen off in the first three months of as compared with the same period last year, from 5,246,000/. to 2,163,00 0 /. ; and the general expor t s of the country hrd fallen off three " monthss,3oo,ooo!. during the first of the year.' Mr. Gladstone said 45 had a strong objection to the income tax, Which was not only inquisitorial, but immoral. Now, he •could not help thinking that they were apt lie overrate the objection there was in the country to the income tax. Teat objection arose from ancient times, when it was supposed that when the war ?eased the tax should cease. There was no tax so little liable to evasion as the income tax. The only schedule curler which there could be any evasion was schedule D, and there was only 20 per cent of that which was sub ject to evasion. He thought there should always be k ept irp an income tax of small amount ready to be ex- Pnaded in cases of emergency. He to eked upon the re daction of the i ncome t ax which hadjust taken awe as , first - retrograde step in the policy of the last 20 years. Stnee' 1841 they had kept up the income tax for purpose o f repeal'ing indirect taxes—a policy which had been raos t'succesafnl. The stamp on cheques, he thought, 'hula inflict great injury on trade. He believed that a this moment there were neare. 50 than 40 millions de- Posited in joint-stock banks in London, the deposits in rhiele had dot been made by the withdrawal of deposits l unprivete banks. Altogether there were a 100 mil lions deposited in banks in London, 50 millions in Scot- . : 4 °4 and in 'the provincial districts is England and Ire a_tiit I. n o . o Brn m. aj il l lions mere, making 250.000,C00_/. alto gether'seems aggregated for the we of trade. of late banking had become general even among small traders and farmer. And this great economy of Capital it Was proposed to imperil by the imposition of Peony stamp on cheques. It was true this was proposed 14 186 5 ; but there was war hen. If this tax should interfere to the extent of only 10 per cent. with banking ° Perations, the loss to the country would be four times greater than the produce of the tax. He thought the Incom e tax should not have been repealed. There were duties on silk, and on many small articles of manufac ture; bringing in less than a million altogether ; and it tress t o prevent 'smuggling with respect to those duties that it was necessary that the luggage of passengers C otning from France should be searched. It should t als o . be remembered that th e re was a large protective tY on foreign spi r i ts . Th ose d ut i es s h ou ld b e go t ntd u p'of -before they repealed the income tax. They ked ef getti ng r id o f t h e i ncome tax i n 1860 , but ts ° ! Were they to do th a t— see i ng th a t there were wedAe°o. due on Exchequer bondss, and that they Postponing the payment of them till 1860 ? It was I ) 2that they w ou ld h ave t h e l ong annu it ies f a lli ng i n ; 4 t .ziot only would they have to set against that the ei ge PL lag income t ax , but they would also have to pre itarc, Min g off in the tea and sugar duties amount a;_•° 24 00,000/., or 1,500,000/. i f th e y ma d e th e mos t ti_ ? t umble e s ti mate f or i ncrease i consumpt i on. (H ear. ) 1;71 P ion bon , gentleman, when he was pressed upon the t' sa i d be did not bi n d hi mse lf to the o bligation of ei P l e , al lug the income tax ; but the whole tenour of the t hat. on. h gentleman's speech went on the assumption eo faith Must be kept with the public and that the in mo ta x must be extinguished. (Hear, hear.) It was hodibtetme they mo d , thou looked the question in the face. No its a b or i t,eved the tax would be got rid of ; and to make an excuse for the present budget was only embarrassment to the finances of the country. guitar.) It was true that bolder and more manly len be b g e was held ; for what tax was there that would not tee ,l'Popular if those who should be its defenders were it 'n Hetet to point out and exagg nd erate its inconveniences defeottet He (Mr. Wilson) could not help looking p e : s ti the present budget as a scheme that postponed !let difficultiee only to increase future ones ; and that co7 ln realitya reaction from the policy under which the try had prospered in so remarkable a manner. in talc R. WILLOUGHBY objected to the income-tax c ou l r Te of peace, becau s e whatever they did with it they b one ' h °t -make it just. He thought that the Exchequer sheould have been converted in - o the ordieaty not to ewbarass future operations. 11,. '-.1 ' 4 NEY protested against the as-ertion of Mr. i b gleh e that it was t h e desire of the house to impose un dueof over-ifirdneannsce of upO.n.be poor. H e t oo k a f avoura bl e vie , tv I titreasing. t he country, as it s resources were yearl y „:Mr. HAMILTON d e f en d ed the right hon. friend the ‘ ,3l eancellor of the Exchs quer from the charge of having, I ° l the hon. gentleman (Mr. W ilson) appeared to think ! ) /er-estimated the probable income of the country dur ing the current financial year. For a long period the ""tirnates c f various Chancellors of the Exchequer had sinews always been considerably within the amounts actu ally realised ; and he should be sorry, therefore, if th e budget of his right honourable friend were to f eta) wn exception, t o th a t ru l e . (H ear , h ear .) H e b e li e v e d, however that no estimates had ever been mote care fully scrutinised wiih a view to avoid such a - tl em tit. The money actua ll y pa id i n t o the Exchequer 3 1st th e h ea d o f custom,: during the year ending the 8t bf March last was 23,109,000/. ; and the hon. gen tlepian (Mr. Wilson) wished to know how it was his right hon, friend estimated this receipte of the current Tear at 23,400,000/. ? In the first place, there was a d,f !Irence between the balances in the hands of the , collec tore at the beginning and the end of the last financial Year amountin g to 117.000/. ; and there was, in addi tion to that, a sum of 63,0001. whic h had been uo hY advanced the board on a ccount of pension the treasury to the customs. Those' and two su w ms made m a total of 180 000/., which left only 1 11,000/, of the excess 1 0 the es timate of the present y ear to be accounted for. tiosse, the ordinary annual increa-e i n th e consumption of auger was calculated at 200,000 cwt. at 13s per owe., ohiCh mad e 130,000/, In like manner th ey m i ght re- nably expect a similar increase of 60,000/. in the article cf tobacco, and an increase under ten minor heads of r evenu e amount i ng t o 120,000/., making a tot a l i ncrease r 3.10,000/. But from that it had been thought righ t ! Wake a deduction in respect of the estimated loss on e tea and coffee duties, arising from the excessive e tn i. : ; cut which h a d p a id the duty last year. The dimi po-ti"ti°.l in the quantity of tea was taken at 3 4 millio n lo which at is. sd. would come to 170 000/. The toetotal coffee was put down at 30,000/. ; and deducting tot . , estimated loss of revenue (200,0001.) from the ei'at estimated there would he a balance of ".',ooos farat increased the su- e ma s i t n im (Hear.) It was perhaps required ate. to justify . his right bon. to th fair at present to draw any inference with regard Of th e _ Yield of th e com i ng year, b u t so f a r as the receipts bivijifirst month went th e y were perfectly satisfactory. 12 th cg the tot a l es ti ma t e d rece i p t o f 23,400,000/. by had e Y would get 1,950,000/. per month ; whereas they lea ,( j l ,.''ually recei ve d 2,105,000/., being an excess of m it _ w o h Oi., a difference which, if sustained throughout of o e , t °l " year, would make an excess under the head iole ad ! r ° B equal to 900,000/. (Cheers.) With regard to the eat !urenue, h e b a d care f u ll y con t ras t e d eac h it em of head it : t cate with the actual receipts under the same justif y his Year ; and the result appe ar ed abundantly to mated P right bon. friend in putting the total esti gregf a cotne from excise at 18,100,000/. It was most 1 Y l ag to observe the extraordinary rapidity with Sur of !nd , , , • 5118 Ind iey ant Clot Pe. t I ish me ish we og 'on tly ith the • car sly ge- Ore ere which our resources had recoverer; therrise , ves from rheas r ression under which they laboured in November last. H, ,gr.ed with Cie hon. g4ritleman nppn.it- that they ought rot to look with de-poncielrcy to the future, but Viet they had every reason to indulge, if not in sanguine exoectattons at least in no unfavourable forebodings. (Elear, hear.) With regard to his hnn. friend's (Sir H. Willoughby%) suggestion on the subjeot of converting the Exchequer Bond , into Exchequer Bills, he must re mind him that the Exchequer Bill market was a very sensitive one, and that this was not a time at which to venture upon any rash experiments. (Cheers.) Mr. CAYLEY made some observations on the finan cial measures of Sir R. Peel. Mr. NV. EWART opposed the principle of the stamp upon cheques, and objected to the budget as not con formable with sound principles. • The bill was then read a second time. STAMP DUTIES ON DRAFTS BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this bill, Mr. T. BARING said that a few days ago, he pre sented a petition against this bill from a body of men whose transactions and character were second to none i❑ the kingdom, the members of the Stock Exchange, who opposed it as contrary to the sound principles of taxation. He was so unwilling to do anything that would disturb the budget that be should not take any active part in the matter, but he did share the doubts of the pettioners as to the soundness of principle of such a tax. What reconciled him to it was that the Chancellor of the Exchequer took it for the purpose of making a surplus. He said that he wanted a surplus. Every Chancellor liked a surplus, and the house were seldom unwilling to give it, and so that he might not be left destitute, the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, "Give me a penny." (A laugh.) Tne appeal was so touching that he was inclined to say, " Take 2d. at once." (A laugh.) It might be thought that the stamp would fall on the bankers, who were a rich claw, but they were a shrewd class, and had determined to put it on the cue omer. It was a tax on correct accounts. It was true it was a very smell tax, but itswould cause much in convenience. Mr. Si, ney Smith had given an amusing account of the life of an Englishman, from hi taxed cradle to his taxed grave. (An hon. member : You mean Brougham.) He be.ieved it was Sidney Smith, but there was room now for a history of commerce which was built up on staveps from beginning to end. Fie eugge , ted that cheques which had passed the clear. ing-house, and were paid on the day of date, should be exempted. Mr. GREAVES did not intend to oppose the tax, bu , he thought it would operate as a check upon the drawing of cheques ; and it was to be regretted that it was nit withheld till after the committee, who were considering; the whole subject, bad reported. Sill, he so approved of the general provisions of the budget that he would not oppose it. There bad been a meeting of bankers on the sulj -et, and they bad resolved not to oppose the tax, but they hoped that more time would be allowed before it passed through committee, in order that some incon venience-. might he obviated. Mr. RAI PER s tid the tax was one as little objec tionable as any that could be proposed. He did not share in the apprehensions that it would act as a check on the banking system. The present system had pre vailed so long that the public were too familiar with it advantages to give them up fir the sake of a penny. (Hear.) In Scotland, where the sy,tem was older than in England, there von: not only no opposition, but some expression of feeling in its favour. He thought it would act as a hardship to no one. Perhaps in a few places in the country, where the cheque system was as yet rather an innovation, a large cheque might be occasionally sub stituted for several statelier one.. That might also be the case in some of the larger houses, which were even more close-fisted and short-sighted. (A. laugh.) The objection that it would do so generally was one which came ill from bankers, because, if that were so, 11Npy would save the labour of a certain number of clerks, so that it would be, in face, a saving. But, what they were really afraid of was, that some liberal banker should offer, as an ad vantage to the customer, to pay for the stamps, in which case they would all have to follow the example, and it would become a tax on them. _ _ Mr. TURNER had presented a petition from a consi derable number of bankers and merchants at Manches ter, who 01 - jected to this as a step in the wrong direc tion. It was a tax on commerce. Its only merit was its smallne-s, but it would be a tax, and would tend, though be could not say to what extent, to restrict the use of the cheque. The latter was a conve nient and economical substitute for the circulat ing medium, and the restriction would compel the use of a larger quantity of the precious metals. He did not think so large a revenue as was expected would arise from the tax, as instead of taking a receipt for the sum paid by means of a cheque, the person drawing it would after wards get it back from his bankers to serve as a receipt. Sir G. B. PECHELL asked whether the cheques issued by loan societies would come under the operation of this bill ? By their special act they were exempted from all stamp duties. Ali. WILLIAMS did not share in the objection to this tax, or think it would be a restriction on trade. Of course all taxes were objectionable, and nobody objected to them more than tradesmen; but the reduction of other taxes, including the receipt stamps, and the reduction of the postage to a uniform rate, were recent improvements which quite compensated for that. Mr. J. E WART suggested that postage stamps should be used for this purpose. Colonel SYKLS ;u4gested a stamp on tradesmen's bills above 109._ (A laugh) After a few words from Mr. DENT, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the bill had been opposed by gentlemen who said that they objected on principle, as it introduced restrictions on com merce, but the fact was that the bill only sought to extend a principle which was already part of the law of the land. (Hear, hear.) That being so, the exemption could not be justified on any principle whatever, and ought no longer to be permitted to exist. (Hear.) The law was that every backer's cheque should pay a stamp, and he need not now discuas the principle of the exemption in favour of cheques drawn within a circle'of 15 miles from the Imnk at which the cheque was payable, for no one had at tempted to vindicate it. (Hear, hear.) Objections had been raised on the part of the gentlemen of the Stock Ex change, and if there was any body of her Majesty's snb• jects more remarkable for ingenuity than another, it was the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange. (:1 laugh.) Accord ing to the arguments of that acute and ingenious body of gentlemen, they would suffer injury and inconvenience from the tax, which they at the same time said they could evade. (Hear, and laughter.) He had that confidence in the in genuity of the members of the Stock Exchange, that he had no doubt they could. (A. laugh.) While he was sure that they would not care much about the impost of ld., he had no doubt that if they had any artificial arrangements which the stamp would interfere with, they would adapt themselves to circumstances, so as to get rid of the incon venience. But, if so, where was the injustice to them ? (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) And if, •n the other hand, they find it more convenient to use a stamp, where then was the injustice of making them pay a penny for that convenience? (Hear, hear, and laughter.) It was, in fact, a tax on convenience, not on luxury—(hear, hear)—and when they remembered the great reduction in their income tax, and reflected that Government could not reduce and finally extinguish the income tax unless the revenue of the country was substantially built up by means like the pre sent, he was sure they would soon cease to murmur about the stamp. (Hear, hear.) As to the complaint that oom merce was restricted by a system of stamps, ke would re mind them that by this new system of taxation by stamps there was no interest that had been so much benefited as commerce. (Hear, hear.) Commerce had benefited most by the reduction of the rates of postage, and the hon. member who raised the objection being perhaps the greatest among commercial men, he might be said to have profited the most. (Laughter, and hear, hear.) The suggestions which had been thrown out were such as could not be con sidered now, as they did not affect the principle of .the measure, but they might he brought before the committee, who would, no doubt, fairly consider them, though he , could not hold out any promise that he would sanction them. In answer to the hose. and gallant member for Brighton (Sir G. Pechell) he could only say that if benefit societies enjoyed any exemption it would not be interfered with by this act. [Sir G. Pechell—l said loan societies.] He believed he had entered as much as was necessary at this stage into the question; he did not understand that there was any serious objection on principle. He was glad to hear from the hon member for Montrose that the peo ple of Scotland— another class of her Majesty's subjects, probably not inferior in acuteness and ingenuity to the gentlemen of the Stock Exchange--(a laugh)—approved of the measure. (Heat, hear.) He should now ask the house to sanction the second rea ling of the bill. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday. In reference to Mr. Ewart's inquiry as to postage stamps, Die CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed that the question had been considered, and there were very great difficulties, but it was not entirely decided, and he should speak on the subject in committee. THE INDIAN QUESTION. The debate on the Indian resolutions was then resumed. Mr. AYRTON, in rising to move the amendment of which he had given notice, said that he did not think that the nature of the existing Government was understood. In his amendment he proposed the substitution of the words " Minister of the Crown" for more precise terms, because, though be did not wish to enter into a merely ver bal discussion, he felt that if the name was of any value at all, it was as being consonant with the nature of the office, and they could not give a name till they bad settled the duties and practice of the office. He should therefore propose that the fixing of the title of the Minister should be left to those whose duty it would be to bring in s bill founded on those resolutions, though of course it should be a Minister equal in rank to a Secretary of State. (Hear.) He should also propose the insertion of words to set forth the purpose of the resolution, this being the only one in which the purpose was not explained. Being anxious, then, to secure individual responsibility in themembers of council, and a controlling influence over the acts of the Minister, he should propose in resolution No. 2 to leave out after the first word " that," and insert "in order to ensure the administration of such Government with duo care, caution, and efficiency, all the powers and duties now vested in the East India Company, the Court of Direc tors, or the Court of Proprietors of the said Company, either Mom, or with the approbation of the Commissioners for the affairs of India, shall be exercised and performed by a Minister of the Crown in council." Lord STANLEY—I confess that when I heard the speech of the hon. and learned gentleman I felt some sur prise on recollecting the votes which he gave—first, on the introduction of the bill of the noble lord (Palmerston), and, secondly, on the proposition which was submitted to us on Friday last, for the whole of the hon. gentleman's speech to-night was, i n its practical effect, an argument in favour of the Government of India as now carried on by the secrecy East India Comp any, and against the conduct of such Go vernment by a Mini s t er of the Crown. (Hear, hear.) He g ou t l h d e a G tt o en ve d rn h m is e a n d t m t i o ni a . ooffththe r c i r s e k of le i a c v h i the the v, stration ; of his practical i rresponsibility for his actions ; has Minister; spoken and of the danger which would result from such secrecy and irresponsibility. If I had so little faith as the hon. and learned gentleman appears to have in the efficacy of a Parliamentary check, and of the control to be exercised by this house, I confess I should have thought twice, and should have hesitated long, before I consented to vote for a transfer of the government of India to a Minister of the Crown. Now, what is the object which the hon. gentle man proposes to attain ? He wishes the duties of the Home Government of India to be performed by a Minister of the Crown in council. It is true the hon. and learned 1 member drew a distinction between the acts of A Minister I, 0 NT N r rri , E s A y ~,E V " 1611'N'I in council and those of a Minister having no council, but, although he :rew such a distinction with great ingenuity at one moment, I think he forgot it the next. He con tends that power is to be exorcised by a Minister in coun cil, but only with the approval of the council. If, how ever, you say that a Minister is only to exercise power with the approval of hid council, you mean there is to be a con ' joint authority—a division of power—between such Mini ster and the council ; anti, surely it is obvious, that if you do divide powers between the Minister and the coancil you are doing away with one of the main principles upon which we are endeavouring to legislate—namely, that of securing the undivided responsibility of a Minister. There seems to be—if T may venture to say so—some confusion in the minds of many persons as to what it is they really desire. I often hear persons arguing against the danger of giving authority to a Minister, and at the same time desiring that he should be made responsible. Now, I say you cannot separate the one from the other. If you intend to impose responsibility you must give power. Constitute a council having conjoint power with the Minister, and if any act of that Minister is impugned in Parliament, what will be his answer? He will say, " You have bound me to act with the approval of certain persons. That approval, therefore, - I must necessarily obtain, and I could only obtain it by following the line of policy I have adopted in this iinstance ; and you who have im posed upon me this restriction have no right to reproach me with its natural and inevitable consequence." It may be the object of the hon. and learned member to establish such a state of things, but that result was not contemplated by the Government, nor is it, I apprehend, contemplated by the house. We want individual Ministe rial responsibility. (Hear.) It will be asked, no doubt, if that is our object, why have a council at all ? I know that question has been put, and I refer to it for the pur pose of showing that it admits of an answer. I think my right hon. friend described very truly the object and inten tions of the Government in proposing a council, when he Mated that the council is intended to exercise a moral con erol—that is to say, the Minister is to be surrounded by those who can bringdong experience to bear on the ques tions submitted to their consideration, who can give the Minister the best a.ivice, and supply him with the beat materials on which to form his judgment; but having the benefit of that advice and experience, he is bound to act on his own single experience. (Hear ) There is one other ob jection to the proposed amendment. I think that, to some extent, it neutralises the effect of the course we are now taking in proceeding by way of resolution. The object of proceeding by way of resolution is that we should go on step by step, advancing one step at a time. Now, in the amendment of the hon. and learned gentleman we are made to take two steps at a time. The amendment de clares, first, that there shall be a Minister for Indian Affairs ; and, secondly, that that Minister shall stand in a particular relation to his council. These are separate propositions, both open to controversy and debate. Many persons, those especially who support the administration of India by the Company, object to conferring on a Minis ter such a power as is contemplated by the resolutions. Other persons, willing to give him such a power, are un willing that he should share it with a council. These, then, are separate questions, to bo discussed apart, and it seems like anticipating the judgment of the committee on a fu ture resolution if on the present occasion we adopt the words proposed by the hon. and learned gentleman. On these grounds I hope the committee will not agree to the amendment. Mr. MANGLES, for the first time since he had the honour of a seat in that house in conjunction with the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets, found himself in accord with that honourable gentleman. (Laughter.) He was sorry to hear the argumextura ad invidium raised by the noble lord (Lord Stanley), besides which the noble lard quite misunderstood the proposal before them, what the amend ment contended for was that before acting the minister should be compelled to sit in council and hear all recom mendations of his councillors That was precisely the po sition of the Govarnor-General of India at that moment, and no one pretended that he was not practically absolute. Unless they compelled the minister to listen to the opinions of the council, the council would be a mere sham, without any substantial power. And what possible protection had they otherwise against the rash acts of a minister ? He was not opposed to absolute power being vested in the minister; all he contended for was that he ought to be obliged to hear what his council had to say. ' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if the committee should be allured from the straight path before them the result would be that the progress of pub lic business would be very much impeded. He confessed that he entirely shared in the interpretation put upon the amendment by the noble lord—namely, that there should be a joint power between the Minister and the Council. [Mr. Ayrton intimated dissent.] But he wished to impress on the committee that the resolutions were drawn with the intention of advancing, if possible, step by step, to a general settlement of thel question. Having first of all asserted that the government of India should be trans ferred from the Company to the Crown, the next principle laid down was that the authority of the Government should be exercised by a responsible Minister. Ile thought it unnecessary and unwise to introduce at this stage the question whether there should be a Council or not. If the committee subsequently decided on the formation of a Council it would then be open for the committee to decide whether the functions of the Council should be exercised in the manner approved of by the hon. director, and as the hon. and learned gentleman now intimated he proposed. What the committee had now to do was to determine whether there should be a Minister for India under the name of a Secretary of State, and when they had arrived at a conclusion on that head, it would be for them to docile whether there should be a council, and, if so, how it should be composed, and how its functions should be exercised. (Hear, hear.) There were many gentlemen of opinion that there ought to be a Minister in this country solely responsible for the Government of India, who were not in favour of a council. Again, many who were in favour of a council were against the Minister having an undivided authority. The hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. Ayrton) vi ar in neither category. He (the Chancellor of the jxchequer) for those reasons hoped the committee would not sanction the amendment even if they approved it. It might be a just and proper amendment in the right place, and in the right season, but he maintained that this was not the right occasion for its introduction. Mr. V. SMITH entirely agreed with the noble lord op posite as to the interpretation to be put upon the amend ment of the hon. member—namely, that it declared that in no case was the new minister to act independently of his council. Now he thought that all those who were in favour of concentrating responsibility in the minister, were bound,to vote against ouch a proposal. At the same time he desired to guard himself ag'ainst the notion that he was voting against the amendment, supporting the proposal that the new minister was to occupy the position of a Sec retary of State. Sir H. VERNEY was one of these who held it to be es sential for the maintenance of England's dominion in India, that there should be an intermediate power between the Crown and the peaple of India. 'He denied that the house of Commons would or could bo any check upon abuses of Government practised in India. Mr. ROEBUCK said the , , had been told more than once that they must proceed step by step with theseresolutions. He thought, however, that if anything they had. taken a step backwards that [evening, for he believed that it was determined on Friday night by a large majority that the company was no longer to govern India? Well, then, the question which they had now to discuss was, how was the Crown to govern India. He differed, however, entirely from the noble lord and right hon. gentleman opposite, that they were debarred from discussing the duties and nature of the council upon that occasion. They were dis cussing the establishment of a Government in England for India similar to that of 1783. The real Government of England was in that house, which was becoming more and more the representation of the people of England, and the practical conclusion ho drew from it was, for them to have a Secretary of State for the Government of India on his own responsibility, and without the aid of (showing the power and responsibility that would result from) a council. He wanted a Secretary of State for India who should be responsible, and alone responsible, for the government of India. In speaking of the phantom of " old Indians," he considered the worst council they could have , for the government of India was a council of "old Indians,' whose knowledge and experience of India would be con fined to the particular spot in which they had located, and the effect would be that the Secretary of State would be able to impose upon the people on the authority of the board of " old Indians." Ho was an advocate for undi vided responsibility, as the only means by which India could be pro"erly governed. Sir N. WILLOUGHBY asked if it was safe to transfer to, a Secretary of State, without control, the government of India ? It would give him a despotic power over the army, the civil power, and 30 milliens of reve nue, which it was not desirable any man should possess for the benefit of that country. It was intended that the Secretary of State should be paramount, but in difficult cases it was desirable he should take the advice of a council; and however much honourable members might sneer at " old Indians," it was only from those who bad had experience in India knowledge of India could be ob tained. It was of the utmost importance there should be a council of state to advise him in directing bis important duties, and share the responsibility with him. It was to the interest of the house and the country to insist on the appointment of a council. He objected to one individual being invested with so much power as a Secretary of State for India would be without the control and assistance of a council. Lord PALMERSTON' thought the committee were die' cussing two questions which ought to be made the subject of separate resolutions. By assenting to the resolution which had been put from the chair, they would neither affirm nor deny the propriety of appointing a council, but would leave themselves at liberty to deal with that ques tion whenever it came regularly before them. Those who were of opinion that tt e government of India should be transferred from the Company to . the Crown could not rea sonably or consistently object to the present resolution, because the Clown must act through a responsible Minister and he agreed with the hon. and learned member for Shef field, that what Parliament and the country had in view was to make the Minister of the Crown answerable for the administration of India at home ; but that purpose would be defeated if the Minister were surrounded by a council who should have the power of controlling him. To consti tute such a council would be to re-establish the "double government " in a worse form than before. It was pre mature, however, to discuss whether or not there should be a council, and what its functions should be. There was a subsequent resolution to the effect that the Minister should be assisted by a council, and the committee would do well to postpone until that resolution was put the ques tion of what would be the composition of the council, whether it should be nominated or elected, and in what degree it should be an advising body. The present resolu tion gave him the title of Secretary of State, while the bill of the late Government called him President in Council. That was a matter which might be discussed at a future stage, but he trusted the committee would not agree to the amendment, which was inconsistent with the principle of transferring the government of India to the Crown. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said the question raised by the pre sent resolution was not whether there should be a council, but whether the Minister for India, like the Governor- General, should never act without consulting his couneil. It was necessary the committee should confider how the council in India arose. At one time the Governor-General waged wars and concluded treaties of peace which were be lieved in England to be inconsistent with justice and ad verse to the policy which the country ought to pursue. In order to control the Governor-General, acting as he did at a great distance, the plan was hit upon of sending out three or four persons to form his council, and, without depriving him of the absolute power of carrying his own vi ews into effect, Parliament resolved that if he differed from his council, the members should bo at liberty to record in writing the reasons of their dissent. That contrivance, though perhaps the best that could be adopted, was not very successful, for it led during many years to dissensions in the council, at one time Warren Hastings, and at another Mr. Francis having a majority. But, whether the contrivance was good or bad, the case of the Governor-General bore no analogy to that now under consideration, for he presumed they did not want the . Minister for India to be obliged on every occasion to go to his council ad I obtain their opinions in writing. He wa n't to act, at a distance ; he was not to exercise any des potic p svers, and upon any matter of great importance be would have the ad wi , e of his colleagues in the Cabinet. Probably, however, in the majority of cases be would con sult with his council and hear what their opinion was. But whether be had coumil or whether, as proposed by some, he should simply be assisted by an under-secretary, he would certa;nly not despise the opinion of "Old Indians ;" on the contrary, he would doubtless deem it his duty to consult with men of knowledge and experience. At the present moment, however, the real question before the Committee was whether the Minister should be so controlled by his Council as to lose all responsibility. The amendment of the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets seemed to answer that question in the affirmative, and therefore the Committee ought to reject it. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GLADSTONg said he understood resolutions of this kind wore to be considered as precise in the convey ance of ideas as if they were in the discussion of a bill. He considered it was essentially necessary tbat the duties of a Secretary of State should be clearly defined, and if he was to be a president of a council it was right he should be named so in the resolution. They were not called upon to decide his exact functions, but the resolution put a ne gative on all separate power in the government of India, and he thought it was desirable for the house to consider and decide the question now, rather than when the bill came before them fe. consideration, although, as the right hon. member for Sheffield had said, it would be a great evil tb have a council composed of men of experience. (Hear, hear.) The council perhaps would have one pecu liarity, it would show that a parliament of " old Indians" was a sufficient practicable body to expose the pedantry and show the ignorance of old members of Parliament en Indian affairs. (Laughter.) It was desirable to know if the council was to lea merely a council of reference, or if they were to take a prominent part in the administration. The amendment was in accordance with the remark of the noble lord the member for King's Lynn, viz., that the busine-s in connection with the government of India should be transacted by a minister in council, who were to be cog nizable of the proceeding.. To that extent he should vote for the amendment, which was in accordance with the views expressed by the leaders of her Majesty's Govern ment. Mr. WHITE, as an old Indian, ridiculed the idea of the responsibility of a Secretary of State, and protested against such powers beingentrusted to one individual. Responsi bility be read as accountability, or answerability—(laugh ter)—but if as y great calamity occurred in India under the new rule, who would dare to impeach such a Minister? Sir a WOOD (amidst laud cries of "divide") said it was impossible for any man to conduct the government of India without being assisted by a council of men of ex wrienee. The resolution did not etate the extent of thy- authority, and that was a question that could be better considered when the next resolution was before the house. (Cries of " Divide.") Mr. AYRTON said that by the amendment the govern meat of Inaia could not be vested in an ordinary Secre tary of State but in a Minister of the Crown, who must consult his Council before ho acted, although he could act without them ; and thus, so far from diminishing his re sponsibility to Parliament, would increase it, because he would be obliged by the pressure of an intelligent council to give and to record his reasons. Mr. MANGLES (who was greeted with loud cries of " Oh") said a question so important had been raised by the noble lord (J. Russell) that he hoped the house would allow him to correct a historical mistake into which the noble lord had fallen The noble lord had spoken of the council of Warren Hastings as having b een the first ever appointed ; but the fact was that all the governors always had councils. The noble lord also said that the council crippled the power of Warren Hastings, and so it did i n his time ; but at a later date powers were given to the Governor-General which enabled him to overrule his coun cil, and to act on his own responsibility, Warren Hast ings had not that power, and so was crippled. He should propose that the Minister of the Crown should have that power which Warren Hastings had not, so that he might not be crippled by his council. Colonel SYKES inquired whether he was to under stand that any decision that was now come to did not debar the house from considering the question of the power of the council in reference to the Minister of State? Mr. FITZROY said that the committee would not be debarred from considering any question of the kind on a subsequent resolution. The committee then divided — For the amendment .................. , Against it Majority •••••• ....... • ............. --251 The result was hailed with laud cheers. Mr. ELLICE moved that the Chairman report pro gress, and gave notice of his intention to move that a Pre sident in Council be substituted for a Secretary otState. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it would be better to dispose of th e remaining amend ments on the second resolution. After a short discussion, the motion for reporting pro gress was agreed to. _ CHANCERY AMENDMENT BILL. The house then ',vent into committee on this bill, and, after several clauses had been agreed to, the Chairman re ported progress. FRANCHISE PRISONS BILL. This bill passed through committee. PORTUMNA BRIDGE (IRELAND) BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed, JURIES (IRELAND) BILL. On the order of the day for the second reading of this bill, ➢[r. WHITESIDE said the subject was under the con sideration of the Government. He was in consultation with the Attorney-General for England, and hoped to be able to introduce a bill applicable to both countries. The hill was then read a second time on the understand ing that the committee was to be postponed. CONFIRMATION OF EXECUTORS, &c., BILL, The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in a bill to amend the law relating to the confirmation of exe cutors in Scotland, and to extend over all parts of the United Kingdom the effect of Bich confirmation, and of grants of probate and administration. DEBTORS AND CREDITORS. Mr. HEADLANI obtained leave to bring in a bill to au thorise and carry into execution the voluntary assignments of debtors for the benefit of their creditors. The house then adjourned at 10 minutes to 1. HOUSE OF COM ONS—MAT 3. GOVERNMENT OF niTIMA. - Question proposed, " That for this purpose it is expedient to provide that her Majesty, by: one of her principal Secretaries of State, shall have and perform all the powers and duties relating to the government and re venues of India which are ea'-may-now-be-exercised and performed by the East India Company, or by the Court of Directors or Court of Proprietors of the said Com pany, either alone or with the approbation of the Corn missioners for the Affairs of India : Amendment pro posed, to leave out from the first word "that" to the end of the question, in order to add the words " in order to ensure the administration of such government with duo care, caution, and efficiency, all the powers and duties now vested in the East India Company, the Court of Directors or the Court, of Proprietors of the said Company, either alone or with the approbation of the Commissioners for the Affairs of India ' shall be exer cised and performed by a Minister of the Crown in Council," instead thereof. Question put, " That the words ' for this purpose it is expedient to provide that her Majesty' stand part of the question." The committee divided.—Ayes, 351; Noes, 101 AYES-351. Adeane, H. Fitzgerald, W. R. S. Montgomery, Sir G. Agnew, Sir A. Fitzgerald, J. Morgan, O. Akroyd, E. Fitzwilllam, G. Mowbray, J. R. Alexander, J. Foley, J. 11. Naas, Lord Annesley, Hon. Ha gh Foljambe, Francis Neeid,Napi John Napier, Sir C. Archdall, Capt. M. Forde, Colonel Ashley, Lord Forester, Col. Newark, Viscount Atherton, W. Forster, Sir Gee. Noel, (1, Bagwell, John Foster, W 0. North, Col. J. Bailey, C. Fortescue, Hon. F. North, F. Baillie, 11. Franklyn, G. Ogilvy, Sir J. Baines, Rt. Hon. M. Frazer, Sir W. Ossulston, Lord Baring, li. Freestun, Colonel Packe, C. Baring, T. G. Gallwey, Sir W. Paget, C. Barnard, Thomas Gard, R. Paget, Lord C. Bernard, T. Garnett, William Pakenham, Colonel ' Batourst, A. A. Gavin, Major Pakington, Sir J. Beach, W. Gilpin, Col. H. Palk, L. t3ective, Earl Glyn, G. Palmer, R. • Beecroft, G. Goderich, Viscount Palmerston, Viscount Bennet, Capt. P. Greaves, E. Paull, Henry 3entinck, G. Greenall, Gilbert Pease, Henry Berkeley, F. Greenwood, John Peel; Gen. Bake, J. Greer, Samuel Pennant, Col. E. Bolder°, Col. H. G. Gray, Captain Perry, Sir E. Souverie, lion. E. P. Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir G. Pevensey, Viscount 13ovill, W. Grey, R. Piikington, J. to wyer. G. Griffith, C. Potter, Sir J. Boyd, J. Grogan, Edward Powell, Francis arainley-Moore, J. Grosvenor, Earl Pritchard, J. Bramston, T. W Gordon, Brampton Proby, G. Brand, Hon. 11. Hall, Sir Benjamin Pugh, D. Bridges, Sir B. Hall, General John Puller, Christopher <rocklehurst, J. Hamilton, G. A. Ramsden, Sir J. Browne, Lord John Hamilton, Capt. Rebow, J. Bruce, li. A. Handley, H. Repton, G. Smelt, 11. Hankey, T. Ricardo, 0. Builer, !..ir J. Hardy, G. Richardson, J. Bailer, J. W. Harris, J. D. Robartes, T. Sunbury, W. B. Ilassard, Michael Robertson, P. aurghley, Lord Ilatchelt, John Roebuck, J. A. Burrell, Sir C Hay, Lord John Rushout, Capt. G. Sutt, I . Hayes, Sir E. Russell, Lord J. Buxtoa, Sir E. N. Headlam. T. Russell, A. laird, J. Meatheote, G. Rust, James Cairns. li. Henley, J. Bandon, Viscount , :alcott, M. Holford, R. Relater, George Campbell, R. Hopwood, John Scott, Major Cardwell, E Hornby, W. Scrope, G. C.arnac, Sir J. R. Horsfall, T. Seymer, H. Cartwright, H. Horsman, E. Shelley, Sir J. Cavendish, W. Howard, C. Shirley, E. Cavendish, G. C. Howard, Lord E. Slaney, R. ;cell, Lord .R. Hudson, G. • Smith, V. Charlesworth, J. C.D. Hume, W. Smith, Sir F. Child, Smith Hutt, W. Smyth, Col. Christy, Samuel Ingestre, Viscount Smallett, A. Clark, J. Inglis, John Somerset, Colonel Clay, James Jermyn, Rt. Hn. Ealr Somerville, Sir W. Clive, George Jervoise, Sir J. Spooner, R. Clive, R. Johnstone, H. B. Stanhope, J. Close, M. Johnstone, Hope Stanley, Lord Cobbold, J. C' Joiliffe, IL Stapleton, John Codrington, Gen. Kellf, Sir F. Stephenson, Robert Cole, H. A. Kendall, N. Stirling, W. Jollier, R. P. Kerrison, Sir E. Steuart, A. Collins, T. Kershaw, J. Stewart, Sir M. Coningham, W. King, J. Sturt, H. Conolly, T. King, Edward Sturt, C. lowper, W. F. Kinglake, A. Sullivan, Michael Corry, H. T. L. Kinglake, J. Thornhill, W. Cowan, C. Kingscote, Capt. R. Tite, W. Cox, W. Kinnaird, A. Tollemache, F. Craufurd, E. H. J. Kirk, W. Tollemache J. , 'lross, R. A. Knatchbull, W. Tottenham, C. Curzon, Viscount Knatchbull-Huguesien Trefusis, C. Dalkeith, Earl , Knight, F. Trelawny, Sir J. Davey, R. Knox, Col. B. W. Trollope, Sir J. Davison ' R. Labouchere,RLllon.H Truman, C. Deedes, William Langton, W. G. Turner, J. A. Denison, W. H. Langton, H. G. Vance, John Dent, John Laslett, W. Vansittart, G. De Vere, S. E. Lennox, Lord H. G. Vansittart, W. Devereux, J. Leslie, C. P. Verner, Sir W. Disraeli, B. Levinge, Sir R. Villiers, C. Dobbs, W. C. Lewis, Sir G. C. Vivian, H. H. Du Cane, C. _._ Lindsay, W. Waddington, H. Duff, M. Lisburne, Earl Walcott, Admiral. Duff, L. Locke. 3. Walpole. S. Duke, Sir J. Lopes, Sir M: Walsh , Sir J. Dunbar, Sir W. Loraine. Lord Warre, John Duncan, Viscount Lowe, It. Warren, S. Duncombe, A. Lowther, CoL H. C. Welby, W. Duncombe, Hon.W. E Lowther, Capt. Western, S. Dundas, G. Luce, T. Westhead, Joshua Duakellin, Lord Lygon, Hon. F. Whitbread, S. Dunne. M. Lytton, Sir E. Whiteside, J. Da Pre, C. Macartney, George Wickham ' IL Dutton, lion. R. H. . MacEvoy, E. Williams, B. Edwards, Henry Mackie, J. Williams, W. Egerton, Sir P. Mackinnon, W. Williams, Sr W. Egerton, W. M'Clinteck, John Wlllson, A. Egerton, Edw. C Maguire, J. F. Wilson, J. Elton. Sir A. 11. Matins, Richard Wingfield, R. Emlyn, Viscount Manners, Lord J. Winnington, Sir T. Ennis, John March, Earl of Wise, J. Esnionde, J. Marshall, William Wood, Sir C. Estcourt, T. Martin, C. Woodd, B. Evans, T. W. Massey, W. Woods, Henry Ewart, W. Matheson,Sir J. Wortley, Major Evart, J. Maxwell, J. Wyndham, General Fagan, W. Mellor, John Wynne, J. A, Farnhatn, E. Miles, W. Wynne, W. war 4uhar, Sir M. Miller, Taverner Yorke, F. Fellowes, E. Miller, -learns Young, A. Penick, H. Mills, T. TELLEILI. Ferguson, Colonel Moffat, G. Jolliffo, Sir W. 1 Ferguson, Sir Robert Monsell, W. Taylor, Colonel NOES—IOO. Adair, H. Fox, W. J. Pinney, Col. ; A,ar-Ellis, Hon. L. G. Gifford, Earl of Rawllason, Sir H. liagshaw, Robert Gladstone, W. Ridley, George Baring, A. Greene, John Roupell, W. Baring, Sir F. Gregory, W. Schneider, Henry Baring, T. Grenfell, Charles W. Scott, F. Bass, M. Greville, Colonel F. Shafto, R. Baxter, W. Gurney, 3. 11. Sheridan, H. B. Bland, L. H. Hanbury, Robert Smith, J. A. Bonham-Carter, J. Hartington, Marquis Smith, M. Beuverie, lion. P. Heathcoate, Sir W. Smith, A. Briscoe, John Holland, E. Steel, John Bruce, Major Hope, Alexander Stuart, Colonel Buchanan, Walter Hotham, Lord Sykes, Colonel Buxton, C. Ingham, R. Talbot, C. Byng, G. H. C. Johnstone, Sir J. Tancred, IL Calcraft, J. Knightley, It. Taylor, S. Clinton, Lord R. Langston, J. 11. Tempest, Lord A. V. Cobbett, J. M. Liddell, H. G. Th o mpson, General Colebrooke, Sir E. is ockt. Jo) Vane, Lord H. Crawford, R. W. Lockhart, A. E. Verney, Sir H. Dalglish, R. Macarthy, Alex. Waldron, Laurence Darner, L. D. Mangles, R. D. Watkins, Col. Deasy, R Wegeelin, T. Mangles, C. Whatman, J. Dill wyn, L. L. Marjoribanks, D. White, James Dunlop, A. Melgund, Lord White, Henry East, Sir J. Manes, It. willyams, E. Ebrington, Viscount Morris, D. Willoughby. J. Ellice, E. Newdegate, C. Wood, W. Ellice, E. Nicoll, D. Elliott, J. E. Nisbet, R. P. Elphinstone, Sir J. O'Brien, P. Ewing, Crum O'Donoghoe. The Anton, A. Fltzwilliam, C. Paxton, Sir J Willoughby, Sir H. Fortescue, C. S. Philips, R. TELLERS. FATAL STEAM-SHIP COLLISION AND SINKING OF BOTH TESS fiLS. A fearful collision with a serious loss of human life was reported yesterday at Lloyd's by their agent at Milford Haven. The catastrophe appears to have occurred between the hours of 11 and 12, between Wicklow-head and the Kish light ship on the Irish coast. The Bri gand, screw steamer, from Bristol and Swansea, with her ordinary complement of passengers, and a cargo of general merchandise, was pursuing her way up the St. George's Channel for Belfast and the Clyde, when she came in contact with the snip, William Campbell, Capt. Sivell, master, bound to Trinidad from Greenock. Such was the force with which the vessels came together that both of them foundered in comparatively a very short pei iod. Capt. Sivell, of the William Campbell, and six of his crew are supposed to have perished, and 21 of the crew and passengers of the steamer are missing, and serious apprehensions are entertained for their safety. The survivors of both vessels, numbering in all 19, were picked up by the Espoir, from Ostend for Liverpool, which safely landed them at Milford haven, on Sunday morning. Amongst those rescued by the Espoir was Wm. William, a boatswain of the schooner George, Capt. Cross, of London, who was the only survivor of his ship, which went down on the morning of Friday last, 27 miles east of the Tuskar Light. The vessel was bound to the river Niger from Liverpool, and suddenly capsised and disappeared, Williams saving his life by clinging to a piece of wreck, on which he was found floating, and picked up by the Brigand, steamer, a few hours before the collision with the William Campbell. The schooner George sailed from Liverpool on the same day. She was laden with a valuable cargo which was insured. LAST' NIGHT'S BUDGET DEBATE. if the unhappy financiers wish to pronounce funeral orations over ingenious Sinking Funds, patriotic taxes, or self-imposed economies, we ought not to grudge them that small consolation. But That what is to be don e 1 is the question. If a man will exceed his income,eg or muddle his affairs, aggravates and if calarnity es the consequences of ill thrift, there is nothing to be done but to make motters straight and begin again. It is a fatal but very common error to persevere when the game is up, and to pursue the course which was once the best, and is so no more. The position rif the pre sentrhancellor o f the Exchequer is that of some professional ac coun t a n t of called in to make au im mediate settlement embarrassed affairs. We have no reason to believerthat that Sir G. Lewis would o have done wo rse , our finances were in a state to demand such interposition. But with war the after war, with confessed necessity of more costly armament s , with poses, and with a ne fresh demands for civil pur w cabinet every other year, no Chancellor of th e out anysclemie t e?! Exchequer ca n now hope to carr y finance to last longer than a ye ar , then, i What, on new taxese doneb in that year ? He mus t either la yor continue existing d e bt s . The Chancello r o f the Exchequer proposes to lay on two taxes which have the simple effect of destroying an inequality between England and Ire land and a particular exemption t affecting bankers. As there does not appear be much difference of opinion as to thi s p ar t of the financial scheme, we may pa9s it. There remains a real bone of conten tion in the question whether to one to keep up the income tax or the debt. No the ventures absolutely or u nreservedly to propose former course. On this point Sir G. Lewis, Mr. Gladstone, M r . T. Baring, Mr. Bright, Mr. Cardwell, ardwell, and the Chan cellor of the Exchequ er are all agreed. They h ave not the audacity or the heartlessness to tell th e nation, after so many proraises to the c on t rary , a that it must pay 7d. in th pound income-tax f or a f e w years longer till all ends meet again. were any statesman or anyw If there 3 t atty in the house who tendered this council it b e worth while to consider it • but there is not, and the question is the settled without us. Thus great engine o f financial reform is doomed for ev,'r. Of course, there is another alternative, which is co nceivable, but no more. We might reduce e our expen diture. On this point, too, as on t h e i ome tax, it may be said that there is a universal agree ment.t Whatever is ex p ress ed,there is a unani mous feeling that this is not a time for retrench ment, and that no impression can be made on the ' esimates of the year. They w a l e m a usually y eea ta b l l k e most of economy assume n ecessity, and as if the loss said about i t t h e better. So we are driven back to the choice betwe en l taxes and c ,neinued dent. As to new taxes,n - oo le n w e - proposes more than has bee n don e. Nobody adds to the Budget already before the house c ertainly is not our place to su pply the defici e ncy So it So at length, by an exha ustion of all canvassed items' it h ems `gays and . Means, we come to thes e much —the million and a ha lf that wer e to h paid to the war sinking fu nd, and the two millions 4l'n beenhave re deemed. Are these operat iou s to be p or are we to perform them b y borro wing i n another form 7 In fact, nobody prop oses to do so. Several speakers last night, as on previous occasions, ex pressed their di-gust at having to give up these + uplittle schemes. People do no t like to give a long " . cherished scheme of saving. But, disgusting may be to abandon or suspend these two processes a s 1 t of financial morality, no on e r eally and advises us to persist in them. No one N v that responsibility. It com es to t his, then,thatatoe the general moitification of the house, but yet with its universal consent, it's found necessary to honestly ill t k nn tiuue about three millions an d a half of indebted ness for one more year at l ea st , with no small probability of having to do more in this way nex t year, and perhaps the year after.--Times. A SLIGHT MISTAKE.--It would appear that bailiff s , although generallylooked upon as hard - hearted wretch es , are susceptible of the tender passion. A county court baila in East Yorkshire was sent to di strain the g oo d s and chattels of an unfortunate family, but found neither goods nor chattels in the house. He, therefore, e n . dorsed on the back of the warrant, " No girls to love." This document coming into the bands of his employer, not a little xuzzled him. By some clef, in the worth y functionary's caligraphy, the above reading arose. The sentence on the back of the summons was intended to be, "No goods to levy.", SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. MANCHESTER STEEPLE CHASES.—SATURDAY. Handicap Hurdle Race of 5 soya each, 1 ft, with 25 added. About two miles. 18 subs. Mr. B. Land's Engleuiere, 4 yrs, lost (Mr. Edwards) 1 Mr. Morris's Boadicea (h b), 6yrs, 9ststb (R. Sly,jun.) 2 Captain Shaw's Walterstown, 6 yrs, 9st slb (Thorpe) 3 Earthstopper, Lizzie, and Rialto also ran. Betting.-7 to 4 agst Englernere, 3to 1 agst Earth stopper, 6to 1 each agst Boadicea and Lizzie'. Won by a length and a half; half a length between the second and third. The Trial Handicap of 3 lova each, 1 ft, with 20 added About one mile. 12 sibs. Mr. Edwila's Blewbury, 3 yrs, 6st (Pritchard) 1 Mr. Bretherton's Reveille, aged, 84 21b (Nixon) 2 Mr. Baring's Earthstopper ' 6 yrs, Bst 61b ...(Thorpe) 1 Florence and Cumberland also ran. Betting.-5 to 4on Blewbury, 2to 1 agat Florence, 3to 1 agst Cumberland. Won by half a length. Cum. berland bolted. The City Steeple Chase (Handicap) of 5 soya each, 1 ft, with 40 added. About 3/ miles. 23 subs. Mr. B. Land's Englemere, 4yrs, 121 b (Mr. Edwards) 1 Mr. Pears's bl g Little Wonder, aged, 9st 9lb kMr. F. Lotas) 2 Capt. Baker's Ganymede, aged, 9st 61b ...(W. White) 3 The following also ran :—Old Dog Tray, Theodine. Speculation, Brompton, Walterstown, Tom Newcome, Harry, Little . Wonder, and Free and Easy. Betting.-9 to 4 age t ' Old Dog Tray, sto l to e n seh B a to gs l t Theodine and Speculation, 7 to I L i tgs a t Br°l3 tetw ' eesl the apt Englemere. Won by a 11 . a ; n ook second and third. Theodine f e ll. THE SUN; HLIA EN 7. 1 A :<,.lr G o , MAY. 4, ISSR -AUSTRALIA, We have received by Special express our Aus tralian advicew by the overland route via Mar , e lies. The dates are—yelbourne, March 17 ; Sydney, March 11 ; King George's Sound, March 23. The following vessels had arrived in the port of Mt-lbourne :—From London : Siam, Clarissa Bird, Hindostan, and queen of the Elst, Feb- 24 ; S'i Charles, Napier, Feb. 26 ; Wild R anger, March 9 ; Esmerald, March 16. From Liverpool ; Anglo- Saxon, Feb. 15 ; Caractacus, Feb. 16 ; Herald, Feb. 20 ; Oceanica and Caribou, March 10 ; Mer chant Prince, March 15. VICTORIA. The following are extracts from the summary of the MelbourniEferald of March 16 : One great event has signalised the political his tory of the past month—it is the fall of the second Haines Ministry, and the reinstatement of Mr. O'Shanassy at the head of the administration. The immediate cause of the retirement of the late Minis try from office was a vote of the Assembly, rejecting Mr. Haines's scheme for apportioning the electoral districts under his new Reform Bill. Having car ried the clause embodying his new principle of giving representation o minorities, but only after much sharp discussion, and by a narrow majority, Mr. Haines's proposed plan for a re-distribution of the general representation came on for discus-ion. The plan gave much di-satisfaction to the great body of the Ministerial supporters, since its direct effect would have been to absorb many of the rural constituencies of which they were the representa tives. Hence, when the schedule was movtd for adoption, a strong opposition to it was at once avowed on th© Ministerial side ; and Capt. Clarke, formerly surveyor-general, and member of the first Haines Ministry, moved an amendment, amount ing in effect to direct rejection of the schedule. His amendment was carried by 26 votes against 18, and of the latter no less than nine were votes from the opposition side of the house. The conse quence was that the Ministry saw the main boiy of their own supporters arrayed against them on a question which they, rightly enough, held to be a vital one. There was n course, therefore, re maining open to them but one—resignation, and they resigned accordingly. E'er three or four days after the resignation an unusual aed significant pause took place in the arrangements for appointing a new ca' , inet. People began to woeder what was going forward, and all sorts of sinister rumours were set afloat. Subse quently, Capt. Clarke was sent for by his Excel lency, and asked if he would undertake the forma tion of a new Ministry. On one condition, he said, he would consent to do so—that in case of a failure in the Assembly at first, the Ministry he should form should be permitted to appeal to the country. To this his Excellency replier that he had formerly refused that condition to Mr. HaMes, and could not, therefore, grant it to Capt. Clarke. The latter gentleman thereupon recommended his Excellency to send for Mr. Chapman, who had taken the load in oppo-ting the ministerial principle of representing minorities. That gentleman having been summoned accordingly, he commenced the formation of a Ministry ; and by calling in Mr. O'Shanassy to take the chief p'ace, while he re served that of Attorney. General for himself, he succeeded in what would else have been an impos sible task. Mr. O'Shanassy, it is true, was oue of the nine opposition members who voted for Mr. Haines's principle ; but it was evident at once that unless Mr. Chapman could prevail on him to hold that principle in abeyance, and unite with himself on broader grounds of policy, the attempt to con struct a Cabinet wouli utterly fail in his hands. Besides, it bad become apparent that a recall, or even a reconstruction, of the Haines Ministry was quite impracticable ; for the latter bad been his Excellency's first proposition after the resignation to the ea-premier, and Mr. Haines had endeavourt d to accomplish it, but without success. There was no possible Ministry, at the moment, therefore, except one formed by a junction of Mr. O'Shatiassy with Mr. Chapman. These considerations led the former gentleman to accede to the - proposed terms; and the new cabinet was framed as follows :—Chief Secretary, Mr. O'Shanassy; Attorney-General, Mr. Ire'and ; Trade and Customs, Mr. Henry Miller ; Land and Works, Mr. Gavau Dutfy ; Postmaster- General, Dr. Evans ; Leasure; Mr. Harker. The country has acquiesced in the fall of the Haines ministry, because everybody SAW it to be inevitable; - and the general opinion now is, that the new men should certainly be allowed a fair ch ince. THE GOLD FIELDS. As was the case last year, the gold returns for the first two months of this year exhibit a serious falling-off from the quantity produced in the cor responding period of 1856. There is also a decrease in the quantity raised since the opening of the current year, as compared with 1857. In the pre sent condition of mining in this colony, fluctuations in the quantities of gold produced are to ha looked for, the cause being aitrihutable leis to any defi ciency in the natural wealth of our gold fields th-Ln to the unsettled habits of the miner', and the very wasteful manner in which they work. New dis coveries of auriferous deposits are constantly being made, and, if none of them equals in richness the gold-fields which were first worked, the proofs woich they furnish of the dispersion of our mineral treasures over almost the entire colony are highly satisfactory, as indicating an illimitable field for the present and future employment of capital and lab,ur. Indeed, there is already ample evi dence to show that the generations which exist will all be exhausted long before the gold deposits of Victoria have cease l to yield a profitable investment for the labour of the working man. But that labour must be more economised than it is at pre en , . Now, it would scarcely b-3 an exaggera tion of fact to state, that of the thou•mtids wh o li ve by gold digging a very large proportion waste their time and what money they may have in joining in rushes, and in the idle and unproductive habit of " shepherding." The close of the year saw the colony, with regard to its gold produce for the previ,tus twelve months, at a great disadvantage as compared with its posi tion at the end Of 1856. There was, in fact, a fall ing off on the year to the extent of 274,750 oz. We began the next year badly, the escort returns for January showing an adverse balance against the month, a 4 compared with the corresponding period of 1857, of 42,698 oz. Last month's returns also exhibited a comparative decrease of 12,016 oz. We will now proceed to compare the quantities received at Melbourne and exported during the last 'four weeks, with the produce and shipments of the,cor- . responding weeks of 1857. The escort returns for the two periods showed the following results : 1857. 1858. cz. Oz. Week ended Feb. 20 . 48,032 ... 45,997 )1 Feb. 27 PP March 6 57,124 ... 47,854 PP March 13 169,686 168,871 168,871 D crease 816 The shipments during the two mon , hs, when compared, are considerably in favour of this year. Tbo customs returns of gold exported, fur the four weeks ended the 13th Marcb, were -1857. 1858. Week ended Feb. 20 I I Feb. 27 I March 6 67,069 ... 32,731 ft March 13 192,431 ". 209,212 192,434 Increase 16,773 The following ships have sailed with gold frieghts since our last summary :—Feb. 15, Simla, for Suez, 33,514 ozs. ; Feb. 16. Invincible, for Liverpool, 16,191 ozs. ; Feb. 24. Swiftsure, for London, 80,050 ozs. ; March 1. Medway, for London, 9,593 ozs. ; March 4. Hebe, for Hong Kong, 5,546 ozs. ; March 4. Oithona, for Hong Kong, 5,076 ozs. ; March 5. Indemnity, for Loudon ' 11,130 ozs. ; March 9. Red Jacket, for Liverpool, 40,234 ozs.; March 11. Pericles, for Calcutta, 1,359 ozs. ; March 11. Jupiter, for Hong Kong, 5,467 ozs. ; steamers for Sydney, 1,026 ozs. ; small shipments, 36 ozs.-209,212 ozs. Amount shipped from Jan. to Feb. 15, 302,207 ozs.--total amount, 511,419. A rise has taken place in the rates of exchange on London, consequent on the advance in the price of go'd. In presence of an inadequate supp l y of the the i precious metal, it was found impossible to kee p price down, as the urgent demands for shipment placed buyers in active competition with e e ac ee h e, o h tn ow. Should the yield of gold continue to increase, ever, we may expect to learn thata return ncr to pre vious rates will take place. The banks now issue at 1 per cent. drafts on England, l premium. Drafts at GO d ays'isight, premium •, ditto, 30 y ( I da s ar. Freight on gold, against gold purchase ate p ounce . , per overland per sailing vessels, 3et mail steamers, per cent., t deliverable to the bul lion-office, B an k of England. Insurance, 1 per cent. ; and overland, 1/- per cent. Bank rates of discount : 8 per cen t. onLbills having less than 95 days to run, and 9 per cen t . beyond 95 days' cur rency. Over 125 per cent. days, 10 t. The charge on overdrafts is 12 per cent. Freight on gold trans mitted by the overland route, /percent. Insurance 11 to 11 per cent. rates the l j at th aulon same M's 3 surge, Thy last s' cial aspcc. Alice ca,Ai the 1 TRADE AND COMMERCE. During the past month the condition of commer cial affairs in Victoria slightly improved, in conse -: - qnPnce of-our merolu& a-and-ttwlersbaVirte,' Mel ; _ favourable in :•11iomee - 7-,'Opeoliii/Abe'proesecliogs of English shippe:s f ir.-liglimy the month of Nov., ' 1857. The manifest failing off in .tbe exports to this colony which tolK place-in that Awn* led to • the impression 7 hat th3warniugSand expostulations. which had been add l e s ed tohome spectilatorsfrOm time to tizne had at 1-ngth prOdue.3d a r be,neficiakre-., suit. The effect of ' he a.dvices thuS received was to cause increased activity in our import.markets, and . to check the downward tendency of prices. But we regret to state that - the 'mercantile news to hand by the European has again brought about a depres sion from which it is. not- probable that our trade will revive, until it definitively !appears that English exporti ng firma-have i determined to regu-i late their - transmatictris-vrith- -a--more-cautious refe- I rence to our actual= reqUiremehts.: to t 'would be difficult, if not. impossible,- to point attention to a single article of merchandise which is riot held in . excessive quantities; and it •therefore.need occasion 'very little surprise that' buSiriess: is frequently brought to a complete stand-still, - - or 'that; forced Sales are effected to. the prejudice of the! whole" trading 0 - immunity. -We would, ,tiOWeVer; 'Once more assure our friends at , home thateur powers of consumption may new be regarded as ''infinitely more limited than they were two years lot even a year ago. The habits of our'population bi-t a , totally changed, for we see nothing of that.reekleris extravaganco for which some of the inhibitante : ot the colony were once ceieloTaed ; and . Welnight safely feat assured that the variations : in '.prices which have arisen ont of the extraor.linary; flattua tions that have taken place in the inquiry, are not likely to be produced henc4orerard by the super fluous demands of coosumer.e. In the local market for ale, &c., a goodbusine3s has been done, through out the' week, in bulk goods; and holders of every description of brand have, owing to the scarcity of Bass'-, been enabled to place portions of their stocks at full quotations. ,Bottled ales, d-c., have,nOtbeen. , in extensive demand, and few sales have been of--_ fectel at a bigher figura th ,ii 10s. Gd. for the most approVed qualities, .-, Buitter has com manded a tolerable sale at 15d., but, in con , sequence of the news to hand, per EUropeab, respecting this article, holders are likely to submit to a slight reduction on that rate. Bel mont sperm ,canoles are quoted at 141 to 14id., and are not readily saleable. Cheese of very prime quality is in fair request at 131 d. to 14d. The Eastern produce market has not experienced any material change. Ooasiporo sugar is worth 631. ; crystals, fine, are in many instances held for 491. ; and counters range from 391. to 421., in a firmer market. several large parcels, of inferior and damaged tea have been brought for wardfor prompt sale, to the prejudice of importers, ,and prices of all varieties have receded. Patna rice May : be quoted at 18!. to 191. The articles under the head of oil- . men's stores; which have been in continued request . . at satisfact , :ry rates, are bottled fruits, jams,. pickles, and mustard, all of which command buyers. In the wino and spirit market prices, are still low. Marteh's brandy cannot be placed at a higher figure than 14s. Gd., and is generally selling: at 14s. 3d. Old Tom and Geneva bring reduced prices, the for mer nOt being saleable, in else, at more than 15s. 63., and the latter at 16s. Gd. Port wines are i mproiing in - value, -- but -- other descriptions barely cornm4nd last month's rates. In the money mar ket capital is freely offering, on first-class security, at 10 to 121 per cent. Business iu the stock and share ile- iced arket has been very gool, ana ,brevious ;ave been exceedingly well sustained. i SYDNEY. The' elections in New, South, Wales were over, and a large number of new men had been returned. The Pp.rliameut was to re-assemble on the 23d of March. Nothing of political importance had taken place during the ba,nth. • The; f‘ , llo wing ships had arrived at Sydney :—• From . Loudon : Ociavius, Feb. 10; Cairngorum, Feb. *.i ; Union, Feb. 28 • Lismoyne, March 2 ; Omar : Pa;fria; - - MTircir a From Liverpool—Queen of this Avon, Feb. 27. From Plymouth—The S leboitheath. From Glasgow—The T. E. Millidge. A frightful story of the immorality prevailing among the young women on board the emigrant ship Stebonh, , ath during the voyage was told by the witnesses .who were • called on the inquest, held n i t the b .dy of Ann Cox, aged-18, one of the i inisEant, , . The matnin and surgeon of the ship erd strong in their representations, and - - y returned a verdict in which they - said : e express our severe censure and displeasure disgraceful immorality that his existed the single females and the crew►. At the ime, we highly commend the conduct of ase, the matron, and Mr. Rowiand, the D." Sydney Morning Herald says :—" Since our inimary, the present state of our comma s has assumed a soaiewhat troubled The monetary crisis which has taken in England, New - York, and on the conti has temporarily affectel us. Our large mer- houses - are sound and unaffected, although imours, without any foundation, have for t month been industriously spread as, to (stability; but more particularly of those Ire in any way related or connected with uses that have suspended in England and their who the 1: else w! Shot. if th tion tabl here, close sire refusi grant escol of F fair, therefore: that we calmly consider our present position ; and re are grounds of alarm take every precau to prevent the mischief which would inevi- ensue should a monetary panic take_ place During the present year and towards the of last — year, the banks have evinced a de o check reckless speculation by - partially ug the accommodation they so liberally -d during the last two years. gain, eve,n since 1854, the . Government have large borrowers of money, which has been ex • d in railways and other public works. These not yielded any return for the outlay ex •d. Besides, the Government are again in the -t as borrowers for about 400,0001., and will to pay off debentures, due in 1858, 001. ; in 1859, 80,0001. ; and in' 1860, 001. The effect of all this has been to cause city of motley, and an anxiety to realise on 'escriptions of securities, and has tended to about a decline in bank and other shares. 'he quantity of gold dust imported into the ey branch of the Royal Mint for the purpose nage during the month of February has been 7 ounces, and the amount of gold_coin issued g the same month was 220,000 sovereigns. otal amount of gold dust received for coinage the lot of January to the sth of March, 1858, een 98,816 ounces, and the number of cove s issued during the same period was 445,000. is a very large increase of business as coni with the corresponding months of 1857, and ributable to the quantity of gold dust sent I r , inae from Melbourne, particularly during xymth of January, and also to a slight improve t in the yield of our gold-fields. rho amount of gold dust received by the •ts from our several gold-fields during the month ebruary has been 15,436 ounces ; for the same th of 1857, 9,289 ounces. There is, therefore, crease of 6,147 ounces on the receipts of the th." Country Markets, GRA.NTHADL-MAT 1. Thine was a tolerable supply of wheat, and all descrip• tious met a ready sale at Is per qr. over last week's prices. The highest quotations for fine white samples were 495., rod 464, per 36 stone. LEICESTER—MAY 1. f _ The supply of wheat was good and there war ahur attendance. The wheat trade ruled aotive, and farmers succeeded in obtaining an advance of ls. YORK—MAY 1. , Atl our corn market to-day there was a lar ge attend ance, and wheat and oats m eta brisk sale, realising an advance of is per qr. superior white making Ma and red 445. Barley a slow sale, at late'ratei, and oats in good demand at rather more mousy. ---- . COLCHESTER --APRIL 30. pe • as Prices to-daywere a s follow :---Wheat, white," 36s to 50s; red, 42s to 465; ba rle y , 36s to 43s ; oats, 24s to 30s ; beau., M azag an, 3is to 38 s ; middle and small, 38s to 42s white, 40s to 42 s ; g reY, 40s to 445. I ---4, .---.-- . Official Statement of the Quantities of Corn, , rem i Te a i n the port of London, from the following po r ts, h onk kp il 26 to May 1, both inclusive. r 44 12-. .; • g S c ___ _ ...._. 190$ 9: 2 0 200 Colchester Harwich 1 116 350 75 135 Leigh 4283 40 51 ---.. kialdon 12021 6 ( 300 246 i 680 ---- KIRKCALDY—MA.7 1. Here, to-day, we had moderate supplies of all kinds of grain. Sales ready, at prices in favour of sellers. Wheat. I Barl e y. I Oats. I Beanil; First Second 46s Od I 36s Od 27s Od Os ti I T hird 3ss Od sos oa 23s 6J r Os ed THE ADMIRALTY PIER AT DOVER.—We are very gratified to learn that the magLificent mariner - WM& nade formed at the newly-constructed Admiralty pier about to b e com pl e t e d and thrown open to the public. During the week the engine-house and some of the im mense blocks of stone which have hitherto held it in possession, have been removed, and the prooess of clear ing the pier of these obstacles is to be rapidly proceeded with. There is no doubt; therefore, that before the com mencement of the fashionable season, Ibis most attrac tive addition will be made to the marine del ights of Dover.—Dover Chronicle. tud ily. hat cur ent ion ng Lan oot MIS its UM ob id" am Pilo ax, ha. ne- DD. ax the ear ild tax Led 'en ary ort U Y