The Sun. — London, England, 1858-07-20 00:00:00

spent by the Court of Directors. He believed the public would not consent to give the patronage to the Govern ment, and therefore the only remedy was an anlerolment such as he had given notice of. He believed all the evile of the administration could be traced to the sys tem of patronage. The appointments to the cavalry, instead of being given at Addiscombe, were re served for the aristocracy of Leadenhall-street, and to increase their patronage. The regular cavalry were preferred to the irregular, which was more serviceable and more economical. He thought the clause ought to be struck out, and that which he proposed or some ether be substituted. The Earl of DERBY could not trace-any connection between the noble earl's speech and the ame ndment of which be had given notice. His prop osal was to give all the patronage to three members of the Ceuncil to be chosen by the Secretory of St ate ; as the bill stood the secretary would have two nominations out of 17. The noble earl thought that too much, and therefore pro posed to give one-eigth directly, and the other seven eighths indirectly, though the three members to be named by him, who w ere to receive their full salaries of 1,200?., although remaining members of the Council, were not to take any part in the government of Indie. Earl GRANVILLE did not think it advisable thus to stereotype the mode of nomination, it would be making it a sort of property of the Council. He thought the subject should be Id; to future regulation. The clause was then agreed to. On clause 41, The Duke of SOMERSET objected that under this clause neither the Governor-General nor the Secretary of State would have any power to expend any money The Earl of DERBY said the clause did no t a t a ll in terfere with the powers now vested i n th e Governor general, it only subjected the expenditure to the revi sion of the council. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGET remarked that the clause did not at all alter the position of the Governor- General—the council was substituted for the Court of Directors, who now revised all the expenditure. The clause was then agreed to. On clause 52, relati ng to the audit of accounts, The Earl of ELLENBOR.OUGR said he had an amendment to propose in the clime. He considered it only just to protect tho revenues of India from being charged with any expenditure to which they were not properly applicable, and he feared the council would not be as careful as the Court of Directors were. He pro posed to extend the powers of the auditors, and with that view to add the words, " Especially noting any pay ment, if such there be, in which it shall appear to him any mosey coming out of the revenues of Ida 11: - .s been applied to other purposes than those of the government of India." The Earl of DERBY believed the clause as it stood afforded sufficient protection, but he would consider the amendment before the next Cage of the bill. Itord MONTEAGLE supported the amendment. The present system of public audit in this country was not satisfactory, and the last report had recommended a re turn to the cli system of the auditor reporting direct to Parliafuent. He would recommend the same system with regard to India. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH did not think it pos. , bible to improve the present system of accounts at Lead , enhali-street. The clause was then agreed to. On clause 53, accounts to be laid annually before Par liament, The Earl of SILIFTESBURY moved to add a pro viso that the accounts be accompanied by astatement giv ing an abstract of what had been done during the year to improverailways, roads, and canals, the number of Euro pean settlers and soldiers in each presidency, the mortality, the number of schools and colleges, members attending, books used, /cc., the statement being prepared in such a manner ad to exhibit the moral and material progress of each presidency. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH should not object if he thought the preparation of the statement would not cost too much, or would be read by anybody except the noble earl and one or two others. After some conversation the clause was agreed to. On clause 54, which requires that the order for the commencement of hostilities be communicated to Parlia ment one month after their actual commencement, _ The Earl of ELLENEOROUGH objected to the clause as it stood. - Five weeks must elapse More the order for the commencement of actual war arrived in India, and five weeks more must elapse before it was known that the Governor-General had declared war. He did not believe that any man in his senses would give an order for the commencement of actual hostilities under such circumstances. Practically it would be a notifica tion to the state against which proceedings were to be taken. If this had been the law before the late Persian war he did not believe that either Busbire or Moham merah would have been taken. The Earl of DERBY said be was at a loss to under stand the obj - ctioa of his noble friend. If an order was sent out directirg the commencement of actual hostilities he thought it was not unreasonable that Parliament, if then sitting, should be informed of the fact that such an order had been sent out within one month after. How that could be a notice to the enemy he could not under stand. Ile did not think the instance selected by his noble friend was a happy one, because it ever there was an unconstitutional proceeding it was that Persian war, which was commenced, carried on, and ended without Parliament having the slightest knowledge that they were going to war, what the grounds of the quarrel were, or what they were fighting about. (Hear.) The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said he was not going to defend what had been done by the late Government, but whether right or wrens , in their policy, the war had been successful. He believed that the clause would never be acted upon. Suppose, for instance, when the order to commence the Persian war had been sent out, the Indian mutiny had broken forth, and that the Gover nor-General did not act upon the order under the circum stances, would not the communication to Parliament one month after the order bad been sent out be a notification to Persia of their intention ? Lord WODEHOUSE suggested two months instead of one. • The Duke of CAMBRIDGE thought the object of the clause was a very desirable one, but care should be taken that the interests of the country did net suffer. For that, reason he thought it desirable that the time should be extended. Lord CRANWORTII said that the late Government, after mature deliberation, agreed to the clause, but the noble earl (Ellenborough) pointed out such difficulties arising from the distance of India from this country as might make it positively mischievous to act upon the clause. • The Earl of DERBY said that if this clause, which was verbatim the same as when it was agreed to by the members of the late Government, had been so maturely considered by the late Cabinet, he was at a loss to know why they changed their opinion. Was it that they sat on the other side of the house ? He would not object to the two months. Earl GRA.NVILLE thought the charge of change of opinion was an extraordinary one to come from the noble, earl whose government changed their opinion not only with regard to the subject of India, but with regard to almost every other subject. (Hear.) It was very possible for men to come honestly and conscientiously to an opinion, and on further argument to change that opinion. (Hear.) He did not think the argument of the noble earl (Eilenborough) bad been answered, and he could not help thinking it would be better to insert three months instead of one or two. By the end of the month they would be sure of having received the answer of the Governer-General. The clause was then agreed to, two months being sub stitutedinstead of one as in the clause (as was understood). On clause 55, which refers to the employment of the Indian army beyond the frontiers of India, The Earl-of DERBY proposed a new clause instead, for the purpose of getting rid of the constitutional ob jection which had been urged to the old clause. Earl GRANVILLE said that the object of the clause was a good one. Mr. Fox suggested something of the kind formerly, and so did Mr. Pitt, but they failed, and was there the slightest chance, if the clause b scame l aw , of its being more successful ? Tee Indian army was not to be employed outside the Indian frontiers, except to repel an invasion or on some urgent and sudden neces sity without the consent of Parliament. As he said be fore, no war was justifiable except the case was urgent, and some suddenness was always connected with a mili tary. operation. What was the meaning of the consent of parliament I Was an act of Parliament to be got ? Wis there any other mode of expres-ins its censsnt ? If so, it ought to be embodied in the clause. By this clause the Governor-General might be deterred from doing things which it would he his duty to do. The Earl of DERBY said it had been supposed that the.object of the clause was is impose a restriction cn tio prerogative of the Crown with respect to the Indian army on foreign expeditions. the clause had no such object, and it would have no such effect. After this slum passel the Crown would b 3 at liberty to employ in any quarter of the world every single man engaged in the Indian service during the period of his service. I , beirig the undoubted prerogative of the Crown to make war and peace, the only constitutional check upon that prerogative was the sanction cf Parliament to the pecu niary arrangements, without which no tr .01)3 could be removed. This &atm, was introduced for the protection of the Indian revenue, and it provided that Indian troops should not quit, their own territory except for the pur pose of preventing actual invasion ; or if they did, that the expenses should be defrayed out of the revenues of this country, and not out of the revenues of India. It did n ot prevent the employment of Indian troops by the Queen, but it is said that if the Queen employ e d th ose troops in other than wars within the territories of India, it should ba for Parliament to decide whether these were Indian or imperial objcws. Ii this clause was not agreed to, it would b e c t for an unconstitution a l sove reign to employ the wh ole of the revenue and troops of In dia in carrying on a war for any purpose which the Crown might dire3t, vsitho:i.t bei: g (Hear.b e ) d to came to Parlia ment for a single I thought the bill had The Earl ae; L 110 RO f rr it gave the taken the hest seuuri Y 244irj.-et that, re a that kind. Council a power of vetoing a,. .Y ~s The directors refused to pay for the Chin a _ e- ps audit th e y h a d no t agreed to pay h: ,lf th e e P cr ' s° ' the Persian expedition, they e ,uld uut bo called u p o n f one shilli ng t owar d s th e exeense s of that war. It Wad, for teat reai.e.o no e.;:i iieted the elfin , e °ell he in operative. Ile helieverl the only effect ui Ord would be to tie up th e swor d o f t h e G o vernor-General , to paralyse' his diplomacy,toPreavnedntto. lead to the very wa rs which it was intended The committee then divideel— For the new clause .. ............. 52 Against it 3(3-16 The clause was then agreed to. Clauses down to 70 were agreed to without discussion. On clause 71, the last clans-, The Earl of DERBY stated, in answer to a question from Earl Granville, that on the bill coming into epee ration in India a proclamation would be issued by the THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EV ENING, JULY 20, 1858. Crown,s% ating the principles on which the government of the country would be carried on. (Hear.) The house then resumed, and the report was ordered to Le received this day. The Navigation Advances (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and passed. The Prescriptions (Ireland) Bill was read a third time and passed. The Local Government Bill was read a second time. The Militia Ballots Suspension Bill passed through committee. The adjourned at 12 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY. The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' Amendments to the Crystal Palace Dis trict Gas Bill were considered and agreed to, STATE OF THE THAMES. The report of the committee on the state of the river Thames was brought up by Mr. KENDALL and laid upon the table. APPROPRIATION BILL. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY asked when it was intended to bring in the Appropriation Bill, and if it would be printed ? Mr. HAMILTON said it was intended to bring in the Appropriation Bill this evening, and that it would be printed. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE asked the Secretary of State for War, if he was aware that certain differences had arisen between Col. the Earl of Wilton and Lieut.-Col. Dickson, bo h of the Second Tower Hamlets Militia, with reference to the affairs and discipline of that regiment ; and, if it was true, that the constable of the Tower had made an application to have Lieut.- Colonel Dickson's name, unless he would consent to resign, removed from the Army List, without giving that officer, after 23 years' service at home and abroad, any opportunity of vindicating his conduct before a proper military tribunal ? General PEEL, after enterinc , into the rules and re gulations for the government of the militia, said that Lord Combermere had forwarded to him certain charges preferred against Col. Dickson, but as he (Gen. Peei) did not consider the evidence forwarded to him strictly made out the charge against Cal. Dickson, he had de cided on giving Col. Dickson an opportunity of vindi cating himself before a court of inquiry. (hear, hear.) THE OVERLAND ROUTE. Mr. NICOLL aiked the Secretary of State for War, if the advantages of the overland route as a means of transport for her Majesty's troops, as described in the reu..it report of the re'ect c-)rnrnittec, would induce the Government to forward Indian reinforcements by that route during the colder months of the year, and as would be consistent with the opinion given to that effect by the military authorities in Egypt. General PEEL said that in cases of emergency he intended to send Indian reinforcements by the over- land route. METROPOLITAN LOCAL MANA.GENIENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. S. WARREN gave notice of certain amend merits to this bill. _ . Mr. ROUPELL gave notice of certain amendments relative to the outfall of the Fewage into the Thames. TRANSPORT OF TROOPS COM.MITTEE. Lori GODEIZICLI rose to call the attention of the house to certain remarks contained in a pamphlet written by Sir Da L. Evans relative to the conduct of his fel low committee-men upon the transport of troops to India. (Cries of " He's not here.") The noble lord said he had given Sir De Lacy Evans notice of his intention to bring the subject forward, and read a note he had sent to him and the answer received from him in reference to it, and he was surprised at the gallant general's absence. Sir J. SHELLEY handed Lord Goderich a note he had received from Sir Da Lacy Evans, dated this day at 2 o'clock, in which the gallant general stated he was too much indisposed to attend in his place this after noon. Lord GODERICHt, having read the note, said he would abstain from entering on the subject this after noon. The subject then dropped. METROPOLITAN LOCAL MANAGEMENT ACT AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion for the second reading of this bill, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY inquired if the proposed tax of 33. in the pound was to be - paid by the owner or oc. copier of the premises in the metropolis. He corne plained that the scheme for which the three million was to be advanced r, as not before the house. Mr. AKROYD conceived that the scheme should be before the house before they consented to vote the money. He hoped the house in the last week of the ses- sion w ould not rush into a schme of this kind without maturely considering its provisions, The amount of liquid sewage thrown into the Thames was one-fifth of its whole volume. Ho considered the evidence that had been given before the committee, that the sewage could be purified at the mouth of the sewers, was worthy of coasideration, and should be first tried before ttley proceeded to carry out so expensive a scheme as that inferred by the bill. He thought a bill of this kind shoul not be framed with so much precipitanoy. The Lot weather had passed, and no harm would result by its postponement to another year. Mr. LOWE considered there was no reason for en• tertaining the highest opinion of the newly created Beard of Works, constituted as it now was, and it was very desirable they should have the scheme that was to be carried out before them. He considered the present was a short-sighted plan, and if it was carried out, and Lon don increased at the rate it had since 1801, it would be useless in 1871. He approved of the scheme of the Government referee to carry the sewage to Sea Reach, instead of the plan of the Metropolitan Board of Works for carrying it to Risking creek, The annual permanent expense of working the scheme of the Metro politan Board of Works, after the three millions had been incurred, would he, at the end of seven or eight years, 151,0001. a-year, which, if capitalised, would represent four millions, so that, instead cf this scheme costing three millions, it would cost seven mil lions, including a permanent charge of 4 millions, and at the end of a few years—in 1871—the efficacy of the ' scheme would be exhausted, and new works would be required. The cost of the scheme for conveying it to Sea Reach would be six millions, and the cast of working it one million, making together seven millions, with a permanent charge of two millions for working, &c. ; but they would gain in this respect, for the works under the latter scheme would he sufficient for the future growth of the metro polis. Mr. HE ADLA.M regretted that they were called upon to discuss this measure at so late a period of the session. He objected to their passing a measure which proposed to raise a tax upon the inhabitants of the whole of this metropolis of 3d. in the pousd for 40 years, and then to cast off all responsibility themselves by banding over the money to a body that were not responsible either to Parliament, or practically to the ratepayers, without tak ing any care that the money should be properly ex pended, or the scheme properly carried out. Mr. S. WORTLEY gave credit to the Government for the great attention they had paid to the subject, but thought that the excitement which prevailed in regard to it had led them to attempt legislation upon it with too much haste. The bill in its present form was subject, in the first place, to the objection that it pledged the house to a particular plan. The first clause desired the Metro politan Board of Works to intercept the sewage of London. Then the hon. member for Andover— not among the least informed members of the board— was of opinion that there was great danger in'this system of interception. (Hear.) But in the bill he found no gini ' that assertion more fully proved than by security that the scheme would be carried out ; certain powers and a certain amount of money were given, but that was all ; the plsn might be changed ; it was subject to the approval of no authority , and the board could ca rry it out or not as they pleas ed. If that w as the case th e board to which this trust was committed shoul d be o ne to comman d p ublic confidence. He hoped that the h ouse would not be hurried into a crude, incom p lete, chievous measure. Lord J. MANNERS said that he had often heard t a h ri a d t Ptehhaat house was subject to hot and cold fits, but he had never seen the debates which had taken place on this question within Her Majesty's Government was the last three wt e ke . threatened with nothing less than impeachment nnle a within 24 hours they sett led this question, and at that time he (Lord J. Manners) put in a dilatory plea, stating that the Government had the matter under considers-. tion, and begged that the house would not in its excite ment press at once for au authoritative decision. But the Government having had time for consideration, and having formed a scheme whichetbey receinmeuiled the house to adopt, it was met by the hon. members for Huddersfield, for Buteshire, and N e wcastle-upon• Tyn e, with a serious opposition, and the Government were told that they were rushing to a conclusion on a question which might very well wait till next year, as his right hon. friend (Mr. Wortley) sa id, h e b e li ev ed, until the coal duties expire in 1862. (N o , f rom Mr. Wortley.) Why were tit( y to wait another year? Some gentlemen seemed to thine. that this was a new question on which scientific men had not made up their minds, but having had to look into the subject, he (Lord J. Manners) knew that no subject had been more ex nnined into and consi dered, and in fact so thoroughly thrashed out as that of the main drainage of the metropolis. If hon. gentlemen would reflect on the number of schemes which had been proposed, and the quantity of evidence which had been brought for ward, they could not say that the Government were about to settle the question in haste. He could only say that if the house was deliberately of opinion that no decision should be come to on the question this year, on the House of Commons would rest the respensibility of losing, perhaps, the only °lapel twill of dealing with the subject. On the part of the Government he de clared that they had boon prepared to take the respoc sibul ty of action, and then on the hon 'e must rest the responsibility of inaction. (Her.) The G )vezninent :gas cf opii.ioa that the only mode of dealing with the que,tion was to be found in the f ,ur corners of this bill. -Could hon. member for Newcastle said that this question eT d oh r ia a hm it i i se a s. g k; e n a bz n ua d tn p dt u ha r e i b fi lbe c o a so t p i . o e i e:il h i u g t iv t e he an et i n n h k a l , in k , - meld be dealt with as a whole by the Government— innutoettnhot e n o l c l o t u h t h r e: utle . inan did " not at the e to L how w,. ~,t , sl :, e . i G et oze r r mit t h w e a a s t , o , p e r A n y m f e l t a ltihibis. ways NV and Would means? r Oet of what fonds did the hon. gentleman propose that the Government should do all this? Were they as a pure and naked despotism to take out of the pocket 3 cf the ratepayers the money required for such works, or were they to be considered as national EX- Daises, and to be borne out cf the consolidated fund. (Hear.) If so he (fiord J. Manners) should decline to be the person to make such a proposition to Parliament. Then what was left but to invest a great municipality, which, if anything did, represented the ratepayers with had heard, wills wurpriee the comments which bad been powers necessary to effec t tl e i e v il ed otject. He made on the Metropolitan Board of Works. That body had originated with a liberal Government, of a hich the right honourable gentleman the member for Kidderminster was a member, who had spoken so strongly of what he called a quasi representative body. Ho (Lord John Manners) supposed that the intention of the legislature was to be found in the pream ble of the act, which declared that "it was expedient for the better local government of the metropolis in regard to the sewerage, lighting, and cleansing thereof." The act compelled the Metropolitan Board of Works to take up the very question of the main drainage and purifica tion of the Thames , . Let him ask whether the Govern ment under whose auspices that act was passed believed that they were setting up a sham and a pretence, or a municipality, or did they believe that they were creating an effective municipality for the government of this vast e`ropolis ? He was bound to come to the latter con clusion, and therefore he had listened with surprise to the denunciations which had been delivered against that body. His right hon. friend (Mr. Wortley) said that it was impossible to entrust such powers as were proposed by the bill to the Board of Works, and he said that he did not know the names of its members. It was possible that he did not know their names, but were all corpora tions worthless unless his right hon. friend knew the birth and parentage of all their members 1 He (Lord J. Manner-) protested against this mode of dealing with the subject. They found in existence a great muni cipality which three years ago was created for metro• politan purposes, and every impartial man would admit that if the Metropolitan Board had not carried out a plan for the drainage of London, the Lime did not lie at their door exclusively. (Hear, hear.) Tne Government bad found that the powers of the Metro politan Board of Works were not sufficient to enable them to perform their functions ; and they came to Par liament and asked Parliament to give them the neces sary powers. He had abstained on this occasion from entering on the scientific and chemical part of the ques tion, and what had occurred that evening showed the advantage of not entering on that useless theme. The noble lord having urged tint honest things had been said on both sides with reference to the plan of the Metropolitan Board of Works, and that of the referees of Sir B. Hall, proceeded to entreat the house not to be led into a discussion on engineering questions, for if they did they must constitute themselves a perpetual select committee on the subject. If they agreed with him so far, he would ask, if it was shown that the powers of the Metropolitan Board of Works were net sufficient for that purpose, if the house was determined that the national resources should not be called on to pay the expenses of such a work, and if they thought that the boil inhebitarte, who wool! have t . pay, 611011:d Lave a voice in the matter, which he fur one would earnestly insist on, what better plan could be adopted than that proposed by the bill ? And until some other plan, which held out greater certainty and a better hope that the great work which they desired should be accom plished, he entreated the house not to lose perhaps the last opportunity of giving that board sufficient powers which three years ago was created as an efficient and popular representative of the great metropolis. He could not sit down without answering a question put earlier in the evening by the hon. member for Evesham, who asked what was the nature of the rating powers of the board. The power was that of sewer-rating, which existed before. There had been no alteration of the nature of the rating by the bill. It was called a land lord's rate, and unless in leases there were specific powers to the contrary, it was payable by the landlords. The noble lord concluded by earnestly urging on the house to read the bill a secon I time. Mr. GLADSTONE said the framework of the bill presented great difficulties. He wished to know who would be ultimately responsible for the payment of the money. (Hear, hear.) It was intended that the charge should be borne by the metropolis, but the p ublic often became involved unaware in pecuniary resp onsi • bilitiee, and he should like to know how the bill pro vided for the responsibility in this respect. (Hear.) In many cases the House of Commons had assented to propositions, and there after reciting the plan in the preamble of a bi r, had given its legislative sanction. lie did not obj -ct to the application of the principle of a public guarantee in a matter so important as the pre sent ; but the application ought to be wa.ched and scru tinised with severe jealousy. He wished to a-certain the responsibility of the body to whom the guarantee was to be given, and to avoid stepping into a position in which it might be said the whole affair was done by the authority of Parliament, and Parliament ought to pay for it. Ile did not find from the bill that this was a popular responsible body requiring aid in the shape of a grant. On the contrary, Parliament seemed to be made the absolute authors and projectors of the scheme. (Hear, hear.) It was no doubt advisable to avoid die cussing engineering and other details of a similar na ture. He agreed with the noble lord that it was ma possible to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion on these ' matters. But then the house] ought to have the beet possible assurance that these matters had been ade quately and competently decided by those with phom they wore dealing. (Hear, hear.) From the discus sions which bad taken place, and the pamphlets which had been published, it appeared to him that the ques tion had not yet arrived at that maturity which would enable the house to deal with it in a satisfactory manner. At present hon. members were not able to stand on their own Cons iAions or on the competencyof those with whom they were dealing ; and they ought to deal with some body which was competent to arrive at a correct con clusion. (Hear, hear.) The bill did not even say that the Board of Works had approved of any scheme. It contained in a few clauses the recognition and sanction of a plan which was understood to be the plan of the Board of Works. But that plan was to be promulgated on the authority of Parliament ; and then would come the question of the ultimate liability. (Hear.) Suppceie the plan should fail, or that the 3,000,0001. should be found to be insufficient for its execution. One or both of these events might happen. (Hear.) And what, then, would I be the case of the inhabitants of the metropolis ? iVould they not be able to point to the bill and say, "I'e was not with our will that this was done, and it was not done on the petition of those whom we appointed—it was net undertaken at the time wo chose ; but it was the influ• once of the disagreeable odour of the Thames that brought the matter to maturity. The provisions of the bill were not dictated by a regard to popular principle, or the conviction that you understood the question, but from a reckless haste to escape personal and bodily annoyance." (Hear.) If the noble lord fully understood the question. and felt the ground secure under his feet, he congratu lated him on his happy condition. But, along with many others, he frankly owned that he should feel great com fort and satisfaction if further time were afforded for consideration before the house gave its sanction to any plan. (Hear ) Mr. Alderman CUBITT felt confident that if the Metropolit in Board of Works was invested with entire power to devise a scheme, taking in charge also the pub licand moral responsibility, they would discharge their duty in such a way as to satisfy all the requirements of public opinion. There vies a defect in the second clause which he hoped to see remedied in committee. He was of opinion that the filthy water ought not to be poured into any part of the Thames, and that it ought to be deodorised. If the water should be carried to Barking• creek without deodorisation, the scheme would fail. With respect to the constitution of the Metropolitan Board, he could assure the house there were many mem bers of that beard who would do credit to the home. The board comprised both engineering and scientific skill, and the members were perfectly competent to select the officers to whom the execution of the work should be en trusted. Hetrusted the house would read the bill a second time, and amend it so as to enable the Metropolitan Board to carry on the work its own way. (Hear.) Mr. CONINGHAM believed the proposed scheme would prove to be a colossal failure, and-he would warn the inhabitants of the metropolis that this was a direct attempt upon their pockets ; and the house would find, having forced the metropolis into this va-t expenditure, that they would eventually have to aid the drainage of the metropolis out of the national exchequer. (Hear.) Str B. HALL intended to support the second reading of the bill, but wished to state one particular reason which induced him to take that course. It was essentially necessary, in taking steps for the purification of the Thames, that the provisions which he inserted is his bill should be enacted in the present, and that rte Metropo litan Beard should have those powers of raising money which were proposed in 1855. There were some clauses in the present bill which r e q u i re d grea t cons id era ti on , and to which considerable opposition would be given. The right hon. gentleman the mem b er f or B u t e h a d re ferred to the report of the commissioners appointed in 1853. and he c‘nild assure the ri g ht h on . gentleman that the bill for the local management of th e metropolis was framed as nearly as possible in accordance with the re commendations of the commissioners. It m i g ht b e con venient for him to state the intentio ns o f th e Govern ment with regard to the constitution of that board. In introducing the bill ho said--" With regard to the chair man, he proposed that the Metropolitan Board of Works should select three names, not necessarily f rom th e i r own body, or from any district board, but that they should h av e power to select from the whole length and breadth of the kingdom three persons, any one of whom would be fit and proper to occupy the high office he would be called upon to fill, and thoroughly qualified to discharge the important functions attendant upon it. These names should be sent to the Secretary cf State, and the l a tt er should erase two , the remaining one to be the presidentof the Metropolitan Board. He proposed that the chairman r a y n o d f not th a l t e shset shouldba 1 ,s h o o o l / d . , officeand not umr during goodthans ho u should be paid i o d at; F e a a I r a This body would have power to levy and . also, when necessary, to works, as at present rate s take l f a o n r d im o u P t " o v f e : n th e t e n i i r t t s cl w is a t s i district for po e t j a b e i epurposecarry f out outfallthe drainage a the metropolis, because , there was no power to make the ark rial drains beyo nd a certain limit. This board would have power to make intercepting sewers for the purification of the Thamee, and would le empowered ro borrow mr ney from the Treasury, tu be paid within 50 years. Teat was the scheme proposed by the Go vernment,i but the house thought prope r to alter it, awl determined that the chairman should be sir cted by the board, who, of course, selected one of their own body. And with regard to the power of borrowing more y from the Treasury, that provision was also struck our. He wished now to call the attention of the noble lord to the second clause of the bill. By the first clause the Metri politan Board were directed to commence their wore alLin a lea Gnlt'..,!o p_llA!.. LLe p tints of (Antall were defined. They were to be higher than the west bank of Barking Creek on the one side, and not higher than Croseneis Point in Erith Marshes on the other side. He thought that point much too sewage,l loipcohles repeals. enabled b it lhte they the Metropolitan near London ; but that was a matter for consideration iu committee. He objected eteongly to the proviso detehxiturke extremely fieti,y tud anyßoard cul p t ar i t f 11%f :h rneimpos sible, to establish deodorising works within the metro politan area at the outfalls of the sewers, and he trusted the noble lord would reconsider that point before giving powe'r to tho board to erect deodorising works in the midst of densely-populated districts. (Hear, hear.) Reference bad been made to the case of ledcester ; but the evidence in that case showed that the deodorising works were in the open fields. Now in London they could not be in the open fields. For the reasons which he bad stated, he trusted the proviso would be struck out. Mr. KENDALL said it was most desirable the house should know the position in which it stood. It was asked to give a guarantee to the extent of 3,000,0001. But would that sum be sufficient ? The referees stated that instead of 3,000,0001. not less than 6,000,0001. would be required, and in his opinion it was not un likely that the sum required might amount to 9,000,0001. or to 12,000,000/. Then with respect to the question of deodorisation, Mr. Cook bad stated, with respect to Leicester, that he could completely deodorise the sewage of 100,000 persons for 6,0001., and maintain the works for 1,2001. annually. For the sum of 180,0001. he could deodorise every portion of the metropolitan sewage, and carry on the works for 38,0001. a year. Perhaps the amount might not be exactly correct ; but the opinion of Mr. Cook was backed by that of other gentlemen who understood the subject. His opinion was that the subject was not quarter investigated ; but he believed the bill would pass, as it appeared to be acceptable to the house. Mr. LOCKE (Honiton) thought that a bill much more simple in its details than the one before the house would have answered the purpose. There were many persons who thought that the interception system was not the best system that could be adopted, and he might observe also, in reference to the expenditure, that some t o h f e the m engineers h a a n d d some coup l e o d f w t h i e t h p t a h r e t i e e s x p examined re before works cf which the house had at present no know:edge. Those other works, he believed , w ould b e attended with consi t g w en a t s le t m o a t n ha t t he he me w m o b u e l r d f d or ir i‘ e i ct ar a y: t tdleeebnrotainboel:.heaTxdretnorsilgedhattnhhde°mni. that this system of deodorisation was one which was not likely to be effective, and he cited the evidence of a gentleman on that subject. Now, although . he evidence was to a certain extent true, yet they had other most important evidence tLat a plan of deodorisation might be carried out on the banks of the Thames without the slightest inconvenience to the inha bitants. Not only Mr. Cools, but Mr. Hawkesley, had stated their decided opinion that a system of deodorisa tion might he carried on anywhere on the banks of the Thames. He begged the house to understand that he was giving as mach his own opinion as the opinions of other persons who had been examined before the committee. He thought if they were to deodorise the s i e i ::a i g , e„ , i: i ... , vi r5. 0i 1. 1 , ! b..e,,_,mvu.ic,hiA,beite3r,,23attiitall:yaeiht,7llA(lll4drelhoe would be mach better if the bill simply gua tithe repayment of the money to be advanced Parliament involving itself in any scheme what ever. • If it were absolutely necessary that some scheme should be propounded, he was bound to say that he agreed with the chairman of the committee that they had not had sufficient evidence of what, under all the circumstances, was the best system to adept. 1).1r. HENLEY said the hon. member who bad just sat down said the bill should confirm itself simply to find ing the money. That was exactly what the bill did. The Metropolitan Board of Works was left to adopt such plans as they saw fit, without any indication in the bill as to what the plan was to be. The right hon. beroeet opposite had expressed a strong opinion that deodorise- Lion ought not to take place in crowded localities. He entirely agreed with him, but he thought it would be absolutely impossible under this bill for that to be done, ' because, although it was true that it gave leave to die. charge the sewage in certain places, and that it must first be deodorised, yet another clause said that no nuisance should be created anywhere. The course of this discus eion showed how wise it was to say nothing about a plan in the bill, for no two members had agreed on any plan. The simp'e question seemed to be this : some three years ago Parliament decided to entrust to a local body the power of doing this particular thing. For some rea son or other, but mainly, he supposed, owing to two causes, nothing bad bean done. Various plans had been before the public, and the noble lord said that all the plans of the last three years had been pretty well thrashed out. But no two members agreed upon anything. Were they then to go on till they could agreed upon some plan? If they did, nothing would ever be done at all, The two reasons which had prevented anything being done had been these—one was, that the board had not the means of raising the money, and the other was, that the Go vernment having a veto upon them, of course the right hon. gentleman who had to exercise that veto could not exercise upon his own authority, and he got compe tent men to give him their opinion, and having cog. petent men on his right hand and on his left, they gave competent reasons one against another, and nothing was done. In the meantime the river became fouler and fouler, and some fine morning it might create a pesti ince. If the board anted upon any one of the schemes, something would be done towards abating the nuisance, but if they waited till they could agree upon a scheme, they might wait till doomsday. The question had been raised 'by the right hon. nvmber for the University of Oxford whether the landlords should pay ? Now sewers rates were not unknown, and in all cases they fell on the landlords where the landlords had not protected themselves. A good deal of objection had been made as to the mode in which the Metropolitan Board of Works was elected, but he hail not heard any metropolitan member say that the board did not fairly represent the metropolis. He thought the case was a simple one. If Parliament thought the country ought to pay for it then the Government ought to carry out the work, If, on the other band, the metropolis ought to pay for it, he thought it but fair that those a ho paid for it should have the carrying out of the work. They had had some expe rience of this matter. Government having a veto had brought things to a dead lock, and with regard to the drainage of other great towns, lie did not think that the interference of a government department had been at tended with happy results. He repeated that any of the schemes would go far to prevent, if it did not altogether prevent, the nuisance, and he believed that if ibis bil passed, it would set a body to work that would do some thing. Mr. R. STEPHENSON said eight years ago he be came a member of the MetropoLtaa Commission of Sewers, and he then had to comment s the study of the drainage of the metropolis. He was associated with some very aide man, and although his views bad undergone some modification since that time, essentially they bad remained precisely the same. He was called on at that time to investigate 150 different plans that were sent in by a number of competitors in compliance with an adver tisement of a previous commission. He believed i that every possible variety of scheme affecting the drain age of the metropolis was broached. He spent much time in investigating the whole of them, and he came to the conclusion that nothing would effectually answer the purpose but the intercepting system. The right hon. gentleman the member for Kidderminster had objected to this system as not being adapted for the increase of the population of London to three millions and a-halt. Now a more inappropriate remark could not by any possibility have been made. The intercepting system divided London as it now stood into a series of zones. Each intercepting sewer, therefore, dealt with the zone immediately above it. Any increase of London, there fore, would only require the construction of a new inter cepting sewer for an additional zone without at all affecting that which had been already done towards the drainage of the metropolis. Indeed the chief recom mendation to him cf the intercepting system was that it was capable of expansion without involving any inter ference with the existing drainage. Well, after plans had been drawn with great care they were forwarded to Government, and then he found that the hands of the commission wore tied, and as the construction of the minor sewers in London was a matter that could be carried on with ordinary superinteedeace, the corn mission resigned. A new commission was then appointed comprising many eminent men in his profession. They investigated the whale question and came to the same conclusion that he had done without having any com munication with him whatever, which he thought was a strong argument in favour of the intercepting system. What was the result ? That commission also found that Government refused to entertain any application for money, and the noble lord the member for Tiverton sent to them a dictatorial letter requiring them to carry out the plan of a person who was in his confidence. That immediately led to the resignation of the commission, as they could not identify themselves with such a scheme. An objection had been made to the Metropolitan Board of Works, but he crald not understand why. The board was in possession of all the nec,ssary information, and there was rio other body that was. If Parliament ap pointed another Indy, that body would have to collect and arrange all that was collected and arranged by the Board of Works already. There might be some little amendment effected in these plane, but he agreed with the right hon. member for Oxfordshire that they had seldom seen mach good arise from the interference of Government in these matters, Ile trusted that the house would come to a decision iu favour of this bill, unless they intended to leave the matter where it was. But he should strongly advise the Government to insist upon the intercepting system being carried out. Mr. LOWE explained that what he said was that the plan of the board was confessedly limited to a population of two millions and a half. Sir J. SHELLEY could confirm all that the hon. member for Whitby had said with regard to t he labour which he had bestowed on this subject. He quite agreed with him that the intercepting system was the most likely to be effective, and that it would be well to begin with an intercepting sewer of a high level to prevent tbo storm waters inundating the lower districts. With re gard to deodorisation, he did not deny that Mr. Cook had given distinct evidence, but they mus t remember that Mr. C oo k was the cha - irrnan of the company whose obj et e as to sell the deodorised sewage at Leicester, and that they had not succeeded in effecting any sales. The bill provided that if the (rattail were at Woolwich, deodarisation should be carried on half the year ; but if within the metropolitan area, it should be carried on the whole year. He thought the inhabitants of Wool aich might reasonably re airs the same provision with re . gar I to thei r district an was applied to the metropolis. S.r G. C. LE 'XIS said it appeared to him there was an inc :n-i-,tency in the principle on which the bill was founded and the announcement just made by the Pre sident of the B surd of Trade. The right hon. gentleman said it was quite open to the Board of Works to adopt any plan which they might think fit, and that Govern ment was not reannnsiale for •inv n'rfir.lll,, pl,”. ;"‘. ii L.:\ LIL I t+ a.r %uu 4, a, a h a t he bait Fla', that it was quite open to the board to carry out any plan. Sir G. C. LEWIS said at a 1 events he understood that the Government had expressed no opinion in favour of any one plan, and that it was quite open to the board to adept any plan they might think fit. If that were so, why was the house called upon to guarantee the precise sum of three millions ? &ler the heard had fixed upon some plan, and the Government. with the knowledge of that plan, had fired upon .nree millions, whi they said was sufficient, or if the board hoed really not fixed upon a plan,it Was clear they had no security that three mil lions was sufficient, and that they might not be called upon hereafter for two or three millions more. Teat was the only difficulty he had in assenting= to the second reading of this bill. Mr. J. LOCKE regarded this 2nbject as one of great importance to the ratepayers of the mett opolie. (hear.) The Government said they had no plan, but they never theless introduced a bill which to his mind seemed to indicate a plan, inasmuch as it named the points where the outlets of the sewage were to be fixed. Bat with regard to the means of transit of the sewage from the metropolis to those points, the Government said they were prepared to leave that entirely to the Metropolitan Board of Works. Now, with regard to the deodorisa tion of the sewage, there were different opinions. They had, for instance, the hon. member for Honiton (Mr. J. Locke), whose opinion was in favour of the deodorising system ; while, on the other hand, they had the opinion of the hon. member for Whitby (Mr. Stephenson), indi cating that he was an enemy to the deodorising systein. Mr. STEPHENSON explained that he was not an enemy to deodorising, under certain circumstances ; but there were certain districts of London the sewage of which could not be conveniently deodorised. Mr. LOCKE—The hon. member was an advocate of what he called dividing the metropolis into "zones," and thus his system might be described as "the zonar system"—(!aughter)—but while he would deodoriee some zones, his plan would not deodorise other zones of the metropolis. It would be his (Mr. Locke's) duly, inasmuch a; they were proceeding in the dark, not to move that the bill be read a second time that day three months, but that it be allowed to go into committee, wherein the house woulel have an opportunity of ' proving it. Lord EBRINGTON said he was by no means san guine of the success of the plan of which the bill was in favour ; and in his opinion Government would be held responsible for that plan, let them think or say what they might to the contrary. Mr, CLAY said it appeared to him that the bill of her Majesty's Ministers now before the house, in nominating the Metropolitan Board of Works to carry out the work, had made the best redaction. The house had created them with certain powers, but restricted them in money, and should the work not be carried out, his belief was that it would be because the thing could not possibly be done. The experiment, however, was worth making, and in his opinion the Metropolitan Board of Works was the best bodly to make it. Mr. PULLEN agreed in the opinion expressed by some hon. members, that the Metropolitan Board of Works were decidedly the best that could he npry,intr-1 - to carry ft, rr-Yi Lf the bdl our. 111. re wire two plans before the country—one, the plan of the Metropo litan Board of Works, and the other that of the referees. By the former the sum proposed te carry out the work accordingwas onl th y 3,0, tool‘ot 0 0,a0 O st0hcclee 0 :10 0 .rt 0 0 : 0 ., own i n 1 yw Looking, hianicle kianvo thatfavour of h acknowledgment ten t tneh, e ne ta r referees lt e nai r idn e e es would, eptsrwtoiopmoasteed a m o esti matesu n , by the Board of Works. Lord PALMERSTON hoped the house would agree to the second reading of the bill. (Hear.) And moreover, because if the bill were rejected, the house would have to postpone the power of dealing with the nuisance, and getting rid, if possible, of its feul effects. (Hear.) It was an evil of great magnitude He spoke not merely of the existing evil, which arose from the pestilential exhala tions from the Thames ; for, although that in itself was a great evil, yet, in proportion as the population of the metropolis increased, and in proportion as the sewage flowing into the Thames increased, in that pro portion was the Thames becoming the great sewer of the metrepelis ; and, like the great sewer, it would stink, and, like a stinking sewer, it would become a great evil. (Hear.) Some men who went pleasuring down the river to Greenwich said the r wives became sick from the stink of the Thames, and were unable to eat their dinner ; but he hoped that loss of appetite was a misfortune that would not befall her M. jesty's Government on Saturday next, when they would sit down to enjoy the Ministerial White Bait Dinner at Greenwich. (Laughter.) It had been said that there was no great amount of disease at present in the metropolis, and, fortunately, there was no epidemic in London ; but, if the metropolis was unfor tunately afflicted with cholera at the time the stink emanated from the Thames, he believed that the stench would have aggravated in the most intense degree any disaster of that kind. The ill effects of the bad drainage was felt in other places besides the banks of the Thames. This was especially the case in the neighbourhood of Hackney.brook, ao he had the means of knowing when he was iu the Home-office, and listened to the recital of the sufferings and annoyances arising from the stenches and ovetflowings of the sewage. There was, too, a large population living in the south, in one part of which there was no drainage, and no outfaq except at low water, and alter a great fall of rain the cellars became inundated, and there was an amount of misery which no gentleman could have a notion of. That required drainage by a great out fall, by a tunnel to be carried to a lower part of the Thames. It must not be imagined that there was any remedy for those evils except by intercepting sewers in tunnels which would carry the drainage from the metropolis to a lower level. He thought that Bark ing Creek and the opposite points were too near, and it would be found in practice that money laid cut in carrying tunnels to these was, in a certain degree, thrown away. The Metropolitan Board would have to come to Parliament and confess that the plan was defective, and call upon Parliament to assist them with further money. He agreed to carrying out the work to the further point. Therefore, he thought it very unfortunate that Government should persist in limiting the point for the outfell of the tunnels at a point so near as Barking Creek and the opposite side. There was another point not entering into the errange• [Tient of the bill, but to which he hoped the attention of the Metropolitan Board of Works would be successfully directed—the possitelity of converting to agricultural purposes as manure that vast amount of matter die cl.arged into the Thames. There could be no doubt that there was a great loss of fertilising power in matter now carried out to sea. No process bad been discovered by which the fertilising po wer could advaotageously and profitably be applied to agricultural purposes ; but he could not avoid entertaining a hope that chemical science might yet before long suggest some method by which this might be turned into a source of national wealth, instead of being thrown into the waters of the German Ocean. He hoped the house would agree to the second reading of the bill, and he trusted that the Go vernment would regard the suggestions thrown out for modifications. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Mr. BUTLER thought it most unfair that a small portion of the metropolis only should pay towards the making of these sewers. Why should not Richmond pay its proportion, and also the districts further north? He considered the area of sewage, as laid down by the metropolitan bill, unjust, and ho hoped the committee would have that defect remedied. The bill was then read a second time and ordered to be committed on Wednesday. WAYS AND MEANS—HARBOURS OF REFUGE. a n On ,aidard. trhleves address Lif is) report roaNß o f oay w pa . pdaleyahsleeadhn had given ni h. Mr. WILSON said house to the report of . call the attention of the tion to hours of refuge, and to move for the committee on harbours Commission in accordance there with, ans being nntin .3brought hip intersup , -, to understand that had since been given but he t had no objection to grant a commis the Government of the house with any observations.... time ON had no hesitation in saying that Sir J. PAKINGT be appointed . • a Royal Commission ought to to inquire into localities for the new harbours. the ELL hoped that the order of reference sion, and therefore he was indisposed to take up the Mr. LIDD not be restricted necessary. few words from Mr. A. &Hui and Mr. Dolt- After a would be larg t e ed an in d t f a u k ll iln a g n t d h t e h e at vid th en e e c e om th m ey iss e i n o n n ei w de o r u e l d d SON, Admi ralty for . . He only wished to say, that if the Mr. IN th G e El ve All n t e lo ss an w k i e t d h twhheicFhirbset La d rd ag of ree th d e t I)l.idssmnie the co mission. instructions to the commission were limited to the re commendations of the committee, there was some am biguity in these recommendations as to the limits within on. members not to pro ceed which icehars Admiraltyua such d prewouldc harbours isea a shouldtake possible,na br care :c:co that make ll st t u t c h constructed, commissioners would be required t 4 point cut the best spot for the har bours in the respective dietricte. ceed with any de!:Ate at present, having, in fact, post poned his motion until Thursday next, when they would have the terms of the motion before them. Mr. M.CANN concurred in that view, and had him self postponed a motion which he hal on the paper. Sir J.'ELPHINSTONE e at of opinion that the sub ject was one of paramount importance, and that it could be dealt with as well that night as upon any future evening. The appalling loss of life and property on our coast every year was disgraceful to u; when the greater part could be saved by the outlay of a sum of money not greater than they were now proposing to spend upon the drainage of London. The number of lives annually lost was 8,000, the property lost upwards of two millions sterling ; atd, from the large increase of our shipping of late years, the loss must in future increase. Mr. BENTINCIi. ! , aid this important subject had been trifled with too long, and he hoped that an efficient com mission would be issued, and the whole question tho roughly dealt with. Mr. DUFF suggested that no person should be ap pointed on the commission who had served on any pre vious commission. The subject then dropped. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS AND PUBLIC BUSINESS. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said ho would take that op portunity of impressing upon the Chancellor of the Ex chequer the importance of placing the financial state ments on the table at a time when they might be useful, and not so late as at present. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said ar rangements were in progres by which the financial state ments would he preducA at an earlier period in future. (Hear, hear.) In answer to other questions, he had to state that be t' o l i ght it probable the Government wculd not press the Coinese Passengers 811 this Isis ior. He did not intend to f.roceed with the Civil Service Super annuation Bill—(hear, hear) —and at this period of the session it would, he thought, be inexpedient to proceed further with the Pulico Force (Ireland) Bill. (li"fir, hear.) Ti - .e • r.:)-; t 7a3 to. CORNWALL SUBMARINE MINES BILL. Oa the motion that the house go into committee on this bill, M".:\. SMITH objected to proceeding further with thi. , bid, which defl.:ed rights t.f the Crown in which the public had an interest, un it copies of all the documents, case 2, and opinions of counsel. submitted to Sir John Patteson, and upon which his arbitration was founded, were laid upon the table. He moved to that effect. Tioe SOLICITOR-CrBNERAL gave the history of the bid, the object of which Sias to carry into Effie; the arbitration of Sir J, PAtteeon, - to whom it had been re ferred to ascertain the respective rights of the Crown and the Duchy of Cornwall to minerals between high and 1)w water :nark, and below low water mark. After a few words from Mr. W Yr,n the amendment was negatived, and the house went into committee upon the bill, the clauses of which were agreed to with amend ments. THE JEWS BILL. On the motion that the house go into committee on ;his bill, Mr. KNIGHTLEY said he thought that if the Lords intended to admit Jews to Parliament it would have been wiser to agree to the bill sent up to them by the Com mons than to pass this queer measure of an Irish com promise, accompanied by reasons why its provisions ought not to be acted upon by the house. Mr. GILPIN characterised the bill as a miserable subterfuge, and only a little better than nothing at all. Mr. BENTINCK declared that by the bill a direct and aggravated insult was offered to the House of Com mons and to the Jews themselves. He contended that the house was bound to include Turks, heretics, and infidels in the bill. Mr. SPOONER thought the bill a great disgrace to the other branch of the Legislature, and that it was an insult to this house to ask it to agree to a measure every word of which was reprobated except the olject it was to carry out. Lord J. RUSSELL, at the request of Mr. SPOONER, showed that there was nothing unconstitutional in the provisions of the bill. The house divided, when the numbers were— For going into committee 144 Again4t it Majority --104 The SPEAKER then left the chair, and the house went into committee, amidst roars of laughter, on the dis covery having been made that Mr. Spooner, by a mis take, took the wrong turning in the passages to the division, and voted in effect for the admission of the Jews to Parliament, instead of against it. The hon. member joined heartily in the laugh. The house then went into committee upon tha bill, when Mr. SPOONER moved to add a proviso to the first clause, "That such resolution bo not acted on tell the clevent of the Crown be signified to both Houses of Parliamei. 4," The motion was negatived, and this and the other clauses were agreed to without amendment. GOVERNMENT OF NEW CALEDONTA. 11TT,L. The h ia3 tiaving it.oit low committee on 1S L 1 I, Mr. - GLADSTONE said he pre-umed this bill had been recommitted by the right hon. batouet the Secre tary for the Colonies, but nut for the purpose of intro ducing any material amendments in it. He would not, therefore, take up the time of the committee with any formal motion ; but he begged to submit for the con sideration of the committee what he believed to be the material construction of the bill. It was a matter of principle, and he, for one, attached very great import ance to principle. The frame of the bill constituted a new Government for Caledonia, and it provided that at any future period her M.j -sty's Government might es tablish free institutions in the colony. There appeared, then, to be two modes of establishing a colony—one of those was the true, and the other the false one. He thought the colony ought to be established, not on the principles that they established their convict colonies, but as a colony in which the society founding it should be empowered to at once originate free institutions. He wished that the Government could be prevailed upon to embody in the bill that they were about to found a free colony. He was quite prepare] to place responsibility in the Executive Government, From the bill it would be supposed that we founded a colony not fit for free dom. He regretted the terme in which the bill bad been conceived and framed. Instead of being progressive, it was rather retrogressive ; and it merely calculated that a period would arrive when free institutions might be I introduced into Ne v Caledonia. Mr. LABOUCLIE RE agreed in the general principles stated by Mr. Gladstone as to the establishment and growth of free institutions in colonies about tobe newly started, and alluded to the manner in which Vancouver's Island hal grown up. The old English constitution was the best with which they could start ; but there were peculiar features connected with the Colony of New Caledonia, and having reference to the geld producing countries, to which they should not close their eyes. With those features staling them in the face, ha thought it would not have been prudent on the part of her Majesty's Government to go the length in the first instance which the right hon. gentleman contended for. Upon the whole, he thought the Government deserved credit for the manner in which the bill was framed, and he should feel inclined to give it support. The third clause, however, required some explanation. The Queen and Council should not have the power of framing any constitution as a permanent constitution without the consent of Parliament. Mr. ROEBUCK thought there was some mistake with regard to the powers of the Crown. Without any act of Parliament the Crown could give any constitution it pleased. It should be borne in mind that this bill would expire in four years, The measure would not aid the Colonial Secretary in the government of New Cale donia. They were spending their time for no pUrpose. They ought to have stated in the bill that at the end of three years representative institutions would be given to the colony. Not having done that they had done no thing. It would be much better to allow New Cale donia to have free institutions to-morrow than to leave it in doubt when they were to be established. Sir E. B. LYTTON regretted that Mr. Gladstone had not expressed his views on the second reading of the bill. This was not an optional measure, but one rendered im perative by the information which the Government bad received. After receiving the indulgent favour of the house in all the stages of the bill, they could not go back and accept the suggestion of the right honour able gentleman, which would alter the entire charac ter of the measure. In the Governor-General great responsibility must be placed. It was the desire of the Government that there should be representative in stitutions within the four years, if there were materials for them. If a separate population were rapidly formed in that part of the country, the Government might be advised to constitute an elective chamber. By an Order in Council the Crown could at once sanction two elective chambers. He felt the force of the obser vations of the hon. and learned gentleman as to the necessity of a sufficient force to enable the governor to preserve order, and at the same time he would say that it would be desirable to regulate that force in accordance with the actual wants of the colony. He trusted, how ever, tuat the bill having so far received the cupport of the house, it would now be agreed to, to meet the urgent necessities of the case. After a few words from Mr. ROEBUCK in explanation, Clause 1 was agreed to. Ou clause 2, 11 r. BU IT said that by the clause the present Govern tnent, which was of an arbitrary character, might con tinue, without Parliament having the power to inter fere. He thought the clause should be amended, to render it imperative to put an end to the arbitrary Government at the end of four years. Mr. BAILLIE said the power of doing so would rest with the Legislative Assembly. The clause was then agreed to. On clause 3, Mr. LABOUCHERE objected that the clause gave this country the power to establish any form of govern ment she chose---a power which she did not possess in any other colony, The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said the short answer to the objection was, the whole question would have to be reconsidered at the natural expiration of the act., end it would then be absolutely necessary to come to Parlia ment again, if the colony in the meantime did not es tablish self-governing institutions. Mr. LABOUCHERE did not see aoy necessity for corning again to the house on the expiration of the act, while, in fact, the clause gave the Government the power of establishing whatever institutions they thought proper at the end of the four years. Such a course vriuld be exceedingly inconvenient. Mr. ROEBUCK did not see the ferce of the objec tion. The Queen had the power of giving by charter any constitution she thought proper ; and the moment that constitution was given, the colony would have the power of taxing itself. Lord J. RUSSELL said the statements of his right hon. friend and the hon. and learned member for Shef field were not inconsistent with each other. The Qaaen had the power of giving a constitution by charter, but the taxing powers of any legislative assembly would de pend upon the people of the colony. Tne SOLICITOR-GENERAL concurred in the views expressed by the noble lord on this point. The clause was agreed to, as were the remaining clauses and the preamble ; and the house having resumed, the bill was reported. CIVIL BILLS, &c. (IRELAND) BILL. This bill passed through committee. The Railway Cheap Trains BM passed through corn. mittee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER having moved to discharge the order for the Police-Force (Ire land) Bill, Mr. J. D. FITZGERA.LD gave notice that he would next session move for the appointment of a select com mittee to inquire into the government of the Dublin police. CIIELSEA BRIDGE. The amendments to this bill were considered, arid Easter and Whit-Monday added to the Sundays when the people would be allowed to pass over the bridge toll free. THE PUBLIC HEALTH BILL. Oa the third reading of this bill, Mr. CONINGLIAINI gave notice that he would next session call attention to the question of vaccination. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHF.QUER brougl.t in two bills, one to authorise the embodiment of the militia, and the other: ) enable her Mjesty to accept their services abroad. Tne Approprlation BM was brought in and read a fizst time. The house then adj )urne lat h f-past two o'clock. MUNICIPAL WLSTvrq -Thm La. has been col .. _Lau., fur the purpose of being presented to In spector Norris, of the Bath police, as a public recogni tion of his sEtvices in the apprehension of Beale, the murderer, and hie general activity in the disie)arge of iris duty. The m a tt er baying been brtught under the notice of the Watch Committee, they have passed a reso luiion virtually forbidding Mr. Norris from acceptinif he money, on the ground that it would be contrary to the act of Parliament, vchich declares that police officers ,ball not receive any " fee or reward." As it happens, however, the sane Watch Committee, some years ago, allowed Admiral Sir W. Carroll, then chief of the Bath police to receive a gold watch presented by publ:c s'ut- NriPtioni — alouCcamitirc Chronicle. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. TATTERSALL'S-MONDAT. The business transacted was too limited to require comment. The prices given below are merely nominal. GOODWOOD STAMM. 3to 1 agst The Roman Candle Bto 1 agst Lifeboat 10 to 1 agst Rosati 20 to 1 agst Harry Bluff 20 to 1 agst Fulbeek (25 to 1 also laid) 25 to 1 agst Esperance 30 to 1 agst El Hakim ST. LEGER. 4to 1 agat Toxopholite (take 5 to 1) 20 to 1 agat East Langton (taken) 25 to 1 aget Kelpie SALE OF BLOOD STOCK. The following horses were sold by auction by Messrs. Tattersall, at Hyde-park-corner, yesterday :—Amster dam, 3 yrs old, by the Flying Dutchman, out of Urania, 110 guineas ; Excelsior, 3 yrs old, by Flatcatcher, out of La Femme Sage, 40 guineas ; Chesnut colt, 3 yrs old, by Weatherbit, out of Dagobert's dam, 23 guineas ; Metis, by Leviathan, out of Thetis (winner of a steeplechase at Reading), 40 guineas ; Erringham, 3 yrs old, by Gre cian, dam by Faugh-a-Ballagb, 23 guineas ; The Orphan, 3 yrs old, by Robert de Gorham, out of Yawn, 22 guineas. Racing Fixtures for 1858. JULY. Nottingham 2O I Marlborough 23 Stamford AUGUST. Ripon... Belford North Staffordshire 3 Egham 24 Brighton Brighton Club Lewes Wolverhampton Reading ll 1 SEPTEMBER. Derby - 23 Cardiff Warwick 14 NValsall 29 Leicester 22 Northallerton 3O OCTOBER. Chester Autumn 5 Royal Caledonian Hunt Richmond 7 and Kelso 19 Wrexham 7 Newmarket H 25 Newmarket S 0 ll NOV E: Worcester Autumn . 2 Liverpool Autumn tBER. Shrewsbury Autumn ...16 Irish Racing Fixtures for 1858. AUGUST. Heath of Maryboro'...... 3 I Galway , 17 10 - - - ,oscommon SEPTEMBER. Kilkee ~... 4 1 Cashel Curragh 7 Johnstown 2B Jenkinstown Park 2l , OCTI Curragh 12 Down Royal Corp l9 ...2 8 )BER. I Limerick 26 AQUATICS. ST. MARGARET'S AND ST. JOHN'S (WEST. MINSTER) REGATTA. A very excellent contest, in three heats, took place yesterday, between members of the Lightermen's Phi lanthropic Society, for a purse of atm., given by the inhabitants of St. Margaret's and St. John's, Westarinsi ter. The weather being fine, the concourse of spectators was very large. FIRST HEAT. T. Woodford and J. Clark (Red) 1 J. Goatley and H. Berry (Dark Blue) 2 J. Stewart and F. Braithwaite (White) 0 The coarse was from Westminster to Vauxhall-bridge, down round a boat off the Doke of Buccleuch's, and up to the Horeeferry. They made a capital start, but after a dozen strokes Red took the lead, closely pressed by Dark Blue. White, who had fallen astern, then put on a spurt and came up to Dark Blue, and so they continued, the beat being won by three lengths. SECOND HEAT. E. Hunt and W. Lane (Pink) 1 S. Sharp and W. Marten (Green) 2 It. Smith and G. Parker (Yellow) 0 Pink took the lead and kept it all the way, although pressed hard by the second boat. FINAL HEAT. E. Hunt and W. Lane . . 1 S. Sharp and W. Marten 0 T. Woodford and J. Clark J. Goatley and H. Berry 0 The last two pair made a famous race. The winners draw away from the others directly after the start. AMATEUR PAIR OARED RACE. • A very finely-contented race, with cockswain% took place between four tradesmen yesterday evening, steered by cockswain% the following being the crews :—H. Dearsley and Mansfield, young Driver, cockswain ; and E. Seaman and W. Kenward, young Patens, cockswain. The Child() Harold accompanied, and was well filled. Dearsley and Mansfield got the Middlesex shore, and were somewhat astern at the start, the others getting a-head to near Crab Tree, when Dearsley and Mansfield gradually went a-head, and, though repeatedly pressed, won by four lengths. There was a foul, but not on the part of the winners. Country Markets. NEWCASTLE-JUIY 17. A good supply of farmers' wheat, which wont off readily at a slight advance on last Tuesday's rates. Foreign and south country wheat in good demand, at full prices. Oats unchanged. Barley is dearer. Beans and peas is to 24 advance. Flour scarce, for which more money is asked. NORWICH-JULY 17. There was a good supply of English wheat, and a large amount of business done to-day by the millers at a reduc tion of is to 2s per qr. In flour a small reduction took place. In other articles little doing. COLCHESTER- JULY 17. A larger supply of wheat to-day, but millers and merchants not being eager to purchase caused dulness in the market, at is decline. Beaus and peas fully as dear, a sample of the latter of this year's growth was sold at 41a per qr., early Duns. Prices to-daywore as follow :—Wheat, white, 483 to 545; red, 46s to 50s; barley, 32s to 38s ; oats, `6s to 30s ; beans, Mazagan, 38s to 40s ; middle and small, 42s to 443; peas, white, 42s to 44s ; grey, 44s to 463. Official Statomen t of the Quantities of Corn, Ste, in the port of London, from the following p July 12 to July 17, both inclusive. ~ received rte, fioni 41 ....; 4 '4 - m 2 & 7 . 1 T 4 Pcl Colchester l2O ilarwich 230 Leigh - Haddon 4231, 'KIRK. Wo had good suppli, only one sack of barley at fully last week's rate ALDY—JULY 17. ies of wheat and small of oats and to-day. Sales ready for all sorts, 9. Wheat. 0 Barley. I Oats. I Beane. I First sos Od 29s 61 23s 6d I Os Od Second 44s Od —s Od I 27s Od Os 01 I Third 34s Od —s Od 22s 6d I Os Od COAL MARK: :.-JuLY 19. Prices of Coals per ton al the closo of the market B. d. Denton West Hartley .14 0 Buddle W. Hartley l4 6 Hasid° W. Hartley l4 C Davison's West Hartley 14 C Holywoll . . ... . .. .' 6 Howard's West Hartley _ . Wallsend, ko. d. Braddyll 15 9 Haswell 17 0 Hetton l7 0 Lambton 16 6 Russell's Hetton 15 6 Keiper Graingo l6 0 Eleugh Hall l5 0 Hunwick l4 0 Tees l7 0 Whitworth l4 0 South Durham .14 Brown's Moor High Main 14 Nixon's Duffryn. 21 0 Netherton - 14 6 Tanfield Moor Butes 14 3 Wylam 53—Sold, 42. Wallselid, Ice. Acorn Close l5 0 Eden _ls 0 Gosfortli l4 3 Riddell " l4 3 Eden Main l5 0 Ships at market, BIRTHS. LAKE —On the 18th inst., the wife of Colonel Henry Atwell Lake, C. 8., Aide-de-Camp to the Queen, of SOC. LTSONS —On the 15th inst., at Morden Lodge, Surrey, the wife of Colonel 1). Lysons, C. 8., of twin sons. MOON—On the 17th inst., at Fetcham Rectory, Leather• head, the wife of the Rev. E. Graham Moon, of A daughter. MARRIAGES. FRANCIS —FRANCIS—On th 3 15th inst., at St. George's, Bloomsbury, George Francis, Esq., of Ceylon, to Caro line Susanna, daughter of the late Wm. Francis, Esq., of Reigate, Surrey. SAUNDERS —OROWDEN--On the 17th inst., at Kin's Wear, Devon, Arthur Colville Saunders, late of Cape Town, to Elizabeth Ann, eldest daughter of John Crow den, Esq., Falcon-square, London, DEATHS, A.r.r.suiT—On the 16th inst., at his residence, Stone Cot tage, St. Peter's, Thanet, Charles Allnutt, Esq., aged Cox—On the 13th inst., at 42, Newington-place, Kenning ton -park, Mr. 0 , 0rf:,?, Cox, woe.: 71. RONS —On the 26th inst., at Bustee, Goruckpore, from the effects of fever, brought rn by severe service, Her bal t William Irons, 11.E.1.C.5., serving with H.M.'s 13th Light Infantry, eldest son of William I, .Irons, D.D., vicar of Brewton, Middlesex, aged 18. KEY -On the 14th inst., at his residence, the Manor House, Streatham, Sir John Key, Bart., Chamberlain of London, aged 64. LOCH—On the 17th inst., at 12, Albemarle-street, Thos. Coutts Loch, Esq., Bengal C.S., aged 41. ;,oraloN : Printed and Pablialied by M(JRDO YOUNu s of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Tin Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in tho Precinct of the Savoy, in thaaounty of Middlesex, Tuesday, July 20:18584 MR. am ENT ions by Mr. every evening e Admission Is., at the Royal ( Cramer, Beale, M R. CH 8 o'clock,in Mr.LO TIN'S HALL, 1 Stalls (numloe: Unreserved Seat Hall's, Publishes Acre. S T. MAT MEMOR• from Memory a Lo.t," coraprisli Evening, the 21 Weekly. Stalls (numbe Unreserved See Old Bond-street oYAL l E l _ ,- DAY—, Al fresco Ent, — Cirque Orient orm from half-i N.B. THIS I the Butchers' C Works and Illur VIIRIST N..., TAINMENT. TIME Circus—ltalia n r ack n meacing l at .. ___ . . .... The Patrons c COmpany start i it, Pel o ire d il e a ,:C l :o A l Mti l u !i r. us ' and be Browh intended tour. h ave been so el Proachiug dep ai and EVENI N G Lond on. The 1 In England, Seo Royal "Library, "gement with America in the ! Ne arly all tb Mi nstrels, s !me ti me , , are no w You en ~I 'm lei "Il eeP de dood( Royal Library .......... FNTH] PHYSIC Dortant sabject market), at Fou ~.t) R . KITIIPS oIARRIAGE, & te ceiPt of twolvc A LHAM -LA. (The b( - 1 8 1m0 Pa r AEr s.is: IL l a ri r o l c i r : .. an l I a lot t 2 1 : g e e40 e sn i i i p ,fsl o oeE l :rn g o e i v Z r igintil GENE ~_ e. on MON for a short seaso CI RCUS COMP torlvalled Trot day Entertainm _ l ' 4 , IS. • Galle 40 fees fo ' r 1330ki ------ 7: No. 116, for tj• No. 118, for t ri0.142 is th kanle s ei E.-0.". 144 Bentl c"Ial .k,.. emen With %COLL ha ve 9 Th e Wholesat IM'en6se3, viz., 2 Me City D e T he `addresses O Urnals of the h ir E T R ----..i 4 V-1.„ 1-- A.Se. LondoBnu] Z s " on advant Z , Ai. Policies bef ur ea within n g aeduoted 0 it T Estabt PRESIDEN Sir JOll A.xin go e ilei ten to th r, s ) , capital Of Or Revenue fron .Ivided am ong vll Profit Po " Profits f S fut ure division Bon 4 0 Per cel:On 4 . Bank Bull N VER b:ed I SOCIET to 'll been and cte s of assu eitOrring within 4 1 1 . nu lti Prerni o ° I . :Zr ac e. ueath b ,____ r t " ion kn .-- -Wereci b VIVOU win. ED)[( s ,arnuel enw Ki r " ( Mil Elli o V.R.s. Proftssor I "'lrt Or n'e 1 Rcp t , ' 4 Y ~ tak en out in litaa 1 841 1 845 1 84 A 1851 Ti folk, bat tonal Lt The Seel . ' I N% Years, !Li subs( Its hiv e , t ) one bun . 1 t! aims The nut Abetit "'nee its °I . t h ree in .or Dr o , Ran, 142, It i St IkLryir A.l patent Of' ft art 4 t RIESI Re o l l ' crin c ' t f VQ oeal4 - 1 , TRY (s c ,„ L t - ' e ctUei , ? I ‘ 4l ' I I - "fa Inittavei " r eettua 4,11 , , to a " r Copa tv9 ‘..n of t