The Sun. — London, England, 1859-07-08 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY). The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. COUNTY COURTS COMMITMENTS. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from Llanidloes, in Wales, complaining of the law respecting county court commitments. The noble lord said the number of cases in which commitments had taken place amounted to no less than 11,000, and a very large proportion (7,000 or 8,000) of them had been, not for any direct offence, but dealsiml of for non-appear ance. The subject had excited a g reat attention, and he trusted his noble friend on the woolsack would cause some inquiry to be made into it. Lord CHELMSEORD said when he had the honour of h o lding the g reat seal he directed an inquiry into ono r and he rusted the noble and learned lord now on the woolsack w ITALIAN AFFAIRS. The Earl of DERBY wished to ask the noble earl oppo site whether the motion of the noble lord (Stratford de Red chile) was given with the concurrence of the Government, and would meet with th eir support? It would be r ecollected when the notice was given he had been asked whether he wished for a postpo nement. He was then under the im pression that it was Drought forward with the concurrence of the Government, but if this were not the case it might alter the course he proposed to pursue. E ar l GRANVILLE said the noble viscount had brou would ht forware the motion on h is own responsibilityresponsibilityresponsibility He therefore reserve all expression of opinion until to-morrow. The Earl of DERBY wished to know whether the Go • vernment would support the motion. If a trifling verbal amendment was made in the ' second clause, he should feel disposed to agree to it. Earl GRANVILLE said the Government wo'uld not op pose the motion. THIRD READINGS. On the motion of Lord REDESDALE the following bills were read a third time and passed :—Newcastle-under• Lyme Burgesses Lands ; North British and Selkirk and G a l as hiels Railway ; and Border Union (N British) Railway. DIVORCE COURTS. Lord CHELMSFORD rose to draw the attention of the house to the state of the divorce courts. He hoped their lordships would excuse his p r oceeding with his motion, but he had given notice before he was aware the noble and learned lord (Brougham) intended to bring the sub ject under the attention 'of the house. As the court was at present constituted, there were many causes which it was absolutely necessary should bet before the full court , and others in which a jury w quired. This state of things created great difficulty, a& tain causes requiring full courts might have precedence of those to be tried before a jury. The result of this was that the business was accumulating. In cases w h e re it was necessary to decide upon a fact, suc h as whether adultery had -or had not been committed, it might be the best tribunal, but in others, where delicate questions of alleged cruelty had to be dis posed of, he thought the worst consequences arose from the whole story being dragged publicly before inquiry. There was another anomally that at present existed, and that was that the judge ordinary, in cases where a fall court assem bled, actually became a nonentity in his own court. He (Lord Chelmsford) mina say that the business of the court had been admirably conducted by his right hon. and learned friend Sir Cresswell Cresswell, and he believed a new court could not have been launched under more favourable aus pices, His right hon. and learned friend, with whom he had communicated on the subject, had sent him a return made up to the 27th of last month, from which he ascer tained that the number of petitions for the dissolution of marriage , now on the file was 275, and the number now ready for trial was 150. The number of petitions for judi cial separation now on the file was 77, and there were eight petitions fonnullity of marriage. The learned judge now calculated that sixty days would be required for the trial of the divorce petitions, and an equal number for the cases of judicial separation, besides twenty days for the mo tions which the Judge Ordinary had to decide. This would make about 140 working days in the course of the year. Such an amount of business would hardly warrant the appointment of judges confined to that duty, and some additional employment might be suggested for them. He thought two judges who might be appointed, along with Sir Cresswell Cresswell, to constitute the Court of Divorce, should be made members of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council—a most important court of appeal, which absolutely required additional strength. Another sugges tion that had been made was to have some person ap pointed to watch the proceedings in order to prevent collu sion. He was as desirous as his noble and learned friends to prevent all collusion, but he believed that when they came to grapple with the question and to suggest a mode which would prevent collusion by the appointment of a per son with an official character, it would be found impossible to effect the object. In applications fer letters patent the Attorney-General was always called en to assist the Privy Council by watching those cases on behalf of the public, but the case of divorce was not a parallel one, .for in the case of patents there was a monopoly, which it was the interest of the public should not be extended, and there the Attorney-General was properly introduced—but even in those cases the superintendence of the Attorney- General was not found very satisfactory. He was certain that his noble and learned friends would be foiled in any at tempt to introduce a person clothed with an official charac ter, and who must have very considerable powers, into these proceedings. There was one other subject to which he wished to advert,:and that was the view taken by his noble and learned friendwithregard to the procedureof the court. His noble and learned friend seemed to think that the pre sent simple form of petition might be varied and extended, so as to prevent collusion. The petition now was of the sim plest description, but he understood that it was sought to extend it, so as to give the whole history of the married life and the circumstances of the adultery of the parties. He was not aware how that would tend to prevent collusion. But supposing that such a form of petition were adopted, each statement mightbe made the subjectof adistinct issue, and the consequence would be the revivalof themultifarious and voluminous proceedings which used to exist in the Ecclesiastical Court. Therewas one facttowhich he wished to call the particular attention of his noble and learned friend on the woolsack. When he (Lord Chelmsford) oc cupied that place his noble and learned friend was in the habit of putting questions to him as to whether it was pro posed to extend the Divorce Court to Ireland, and when he (Lord Chelmsford) stated that there was no such intention, his noble and learned friend expressed his deep regret that it was not done. His noble and learned friend was now placed in a situation to carry out the desire of his heart. He supposed that the regret which his noble and learned friend expressed was sincere, and that he had at heart the exten sion of the Divorce Court to Ireland, and he begged to ask his noble and learned friend whether in the amendments and improvements in the act relating to the Divorce Court, one of them was to make it applicable to Ireland ? The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had no difficulty in answering the question of his noble and learned friend, by telling him that he held in his hand a sketch of the bill which he proposed to lay on the table, and that bill was confined to England. He still thought that a bill similar to that might be fitly extended to Ireland, and he hoped yet to lay such a bill on the table. But he would rather continue experimentally in England before he proceeded to institute a similar court in Ireland. But for the question so pointedly put by his noble and learned friend he should not have troubled their lordships, because he had already stated all that was necessary before introducing the bill. He could not, therefore, enter into the question of the extension of the form of the petition and so on to which his noble and learned friend had adverted, which might be discussed when the bill was brought forward. But he entirely differed from his noble and learned friend as to the part which Parliament ought to have taken when the measure relating to the Divorce Court was first introduced. It would have been indiscreet and mischievous to have established an indepen dent court without knowing what business was likely to come before it. It was better to try experimentally what would be the business of the court before it was constituted perma nently. He was still of opinion that the time had not yet come when it could be permanently constituted. There had no doubt been a great influx of business, but that was because there had been hitherto no such co t, and it had to deal with the divorces of 20 years ; but It was not yet known whether it would employ any more permanent judges who might be appointed, and it might happen that they could have no sufficient business to transact. His noble and learned friend said that they might be added to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. He agreed that that was a most valuable tribunal, but it wanted no addition to its strength, and it would be highly injudicious to add two or three judges to the present establishment with the rank of Privy Councillor. He had a bill on the subject in prepa ratiOn, and he would give it still further consideration. Lord CRANWORTH did not regret that his noble and learned friend had again brought forward that subject, for he was sure that the more it was considered the more it would be felt that it had beenproved that there was a want of such a court for the purpose of affording redress to a large class of ' the community. He took no shame to himself that the court had not been made more extensive as regards j udicial strength. It was easy to add to a tribunal, but very difficult to remove judg es when once they were appointed. Whether it was necesem y to make any further addition to the judicial force of the court, he agreed with his noble and learned friend in thinking that there were not yet sufficient data to decide. He had said the other night that his right hon. friend Sir Cress well Cresswell had said to him that if they could constantly get the judges to make a full court it would be possible to get through the year's business in a year. Since then hi* i ight hou. friend had stated that he had modified his opi nion and was now doubtful whether that would be the case. If it was shown to be necessary he was sure there would be no hesitation in grantin g an accession of strength to the court. He doubted, howeve r , w h e ther the judges shou ld be members of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. He rose chiefly to offer a suggestion to his noble and karned friend on the woolsack in reference to the prevention of col lusion. He agreed that there were grave difficulties in in stituting a preliminary inquiry. lie did not see the advan tage of two inquiries instead of one. But there was a mode by which collusion might be made difficult or brought under the cognisance of the court. It was wellknovrn in the pro cedure of other courts that decrees were made "nisi "—that is, were to take e ff ec t unless cause was shown w hy th ey should not--and if d ecr ees in divorce cases were made "nisi," and then made public, and notice given that cause , might be shown a ga i nst th em , that would be a cou rse lik ely to render collusion m ore diffi cu lt than a preliminary inquiry .- He did not see why th e J u d ge Ordinary should not h ave 1 oomplete jurisdiction to grant divorces as well as judicial separations, and not be bound to call in the aid of other judges, though he might be at liberty to do so. That would add to the judicial efficiency of the court. Lord BROUGHAM pointed out that it was not intended • that the Attorney-General should make a regular preliminary inquiry into the circumstances of each divorce case, but • should be such a party to the proc ee di ngs th a t an y informa tion relating to them which might be obtained could be com municated to him and by him brought to the notice of the court. Several diyorces in that house had been stopped in co nsequence of circumstances connected with them being known to some,peers , and by them com municated to others. It was never supp ose that the p roposed step would put an end to collnsion, but that aid and assistance should be given to the court. Lord REDESDALE said that one of the advantages which were held ou t as proceeding from the constitution of this court was that that house would be relieved from the ,hearing of divorce cases. But that had not been the case. They had had one this year from India, and there were ethers pending and cases might still come from the colo nies and from Ireland to that house. He could not se I vlay the new cour t cou ld not take cognisance of these cases.e The LORD CHANCELLOR said it had been decided tl iat any subject of the Queen domiciled in England might at ea in the new court for a divorce t h oug h the marrriage ra ight have been sol emn i se d an d th;adulterY comm itted in a fob . eign country. The court h a d no t been called on to deal with a Try Indian case. lie was not aware whether any objection h. ti I been made to the introduction of a bill into that house to dissolve a marriage, but it was in their lordships' dis ci% stion to "refer such a case to the Divooce Court. bord REDESDALE was glad that the court could en ter taro Indian divorces in the cases of persons domiciled in Et tgland. But that was not the case as regarded Ireland, ani I he did not see why that house should any longer be troubled with cases from that country. In an act of last session, relating to the Divorce Court, he introduced an amendment that persons in Ireland might come to the Divorce Court it they chose, and it met with approbation in their lordships' house, but was struck out in the Commons. He trusted that the noble and learned lord in his proposed bill would give power to any person in Ireland who chose to go to the Divorce Court instead of coming to that house. The Earl of WICKLOW fully concurred with his noble friend, and he hoped the noble and learned lord on the wool sack would consider the suggestion. He thought that the amendment in question, w hich had met with so much ap probation from their lord ships, had become law, and he now heard forthe first time that it was rejected by the otherhouse. He thought the jurisdiction of the court should be extended to Ireland, and that it was better that persons should come from Ireland to the court than that a similar one should be createdin Ireland. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that if he thought that this course was desired In Ireland he would cheerfully adopt the suggestion. He should be glad to throw open the court t o all the classes of persons that had been mentioned. After a few words from Lord DENMAN the subject i dropped. Government with various steam packet gompanies ' for tho conveyance of the mails beyond the limits of the United Kingdom; and likewise Into any agree monts or other arrangements 'which have been adopted at the public ch arge, actual or prospective, for the purposes of telegraphic communications beyond sea, and to report their opimon thereon to the house; together with any re commendations as to rules to be observed hereafter by the Government in making contracts for services which have not yet been sanctioned by Parliament, or, which extend over a series. of years ; power to report from time to time. He said he did not suppose it was the wish of the house that he should enter at great length upon the details of the consideration which had induced her Majesty's Govern ment to think that it would be unwise to invite the House of Commons to appoint this committee. He should confine himself to stating in a few words the reasons, which were of a general character. A considerable number of years ago the practice of granting subsidies for terms of years for what might be called ocean service and steam packet com panies arose, having at that period in a great degree the character of an experiment, and having in view besides the performance of packet service upon a scale that was alto gether novel, and likewise having in view ' as might be in the recollection of many hon. members, the adoption of means which would aid in the defence of the country in case of an emergency arising. The demand for the multi plication of these services progressively extended, and a very considerable charge was speedily brought upon the estimates, so that what might be called ocean postage, in stead of being, like the postal service within the limits of the United Kingdom, a source of considerable revenue to the State, besides affo rding great accommodation to the pub lic, was, on the contrary, not only absorbed, but a consider able burden was thrown upon the people of this country. He held in his hand the estimate for the present year. It amounted to £988,488, or in round numbers a million of money, a considerable portion of which was not recovered by the sum received for the postage of letters. Now, there were two questions of policy involved in this proceeding; but the first proposition which he should submit to the house was, he should think, an ample justification for the motion he had brought forward. It was this, that inasmuch as these proceedings had been taken by the Executive Go vernment, as they had not rested on any one definite set of rules, and as at the same time they had been taken in anti cipation of the judgment of the house, he did not wish to cast the slightest censure upon any government ; and, in deed, as far as he had examined the matter, he thought the censure, if any, mustapply to all the governments that had misted the last 12 or 15years—the practical effect had been to oust the House of Commons from its jurisdiction over a very important and extensive, and he might add a very cri tical description of public expenditure. Then, again, the Government had not only been without the guidance of a well-ascertained public opinion, and it had been all along a matter very much controverted among intelligent and well informed persons sometimes whether subsidies ought to have been resorted to at all, or whether they had not been continued for a longer time than necessity and public ex pediency pointed out. In consequence there had been very great jealousy on the part of private traders who had not en joyed the benefit of these public subventions, and without at all pretending to assert that these jealousies were well founded, he thought it was obviousthat by the institution of a well selected committee they would probably arrive at one of two results. They might find either that those jealousies had been well founded, and that contracts had been entered into very needlessly ; on the other hand they might find that the public advantage and public policy had been ably consulted in all the measures that had been taken. The examination of the question would materially tend to re - move dissatisfaction. In the year 1853, at the time when the Government of Lord Aberdeen took office, and when he must admit the disposition, both on the part of the public and of the house with rega rd to public expenditure was not absolutely what it now is, his right hon. friend the member for Carlisle, then First Lord of the Admiralty, and himself holding the office he had now the honour to fill, was some what alarmed at the extent to which the charge for ocean postage had then arrived. It was then he thought £830,000, and her Majesty's Government appointed a commission for the purpose of examining into the whole question, and of making suggestions with regard to the policy thereafter to be pursued. On the commission they had the advantage of the services of Lord Canning, and of his hon. friend opposite (Sir Stafford Northcote), and his right hon. friend behind him, the member for Hertford, who at the time held office under the Crown. The general effect of the report of the commission was that the hands of the Government were to a great extent tied by the nature of the contracts that existed, yet that something might be done for the alleviation of the charge. He had no doubt that the report of that commis sion tended to give satisfaction both to the House of Com mons and to those who entertained jealous feelings out of doors. But the course of their subseqnent proceedings had not borne out the expectation that that report held out. On the contrary, the charge had increased from £830,000 to nearly a million ; nor did that million at all express the maximum, if they were to continue the present system. On the contrary, as known to the house, a contract had been recently concluded with a new steam packet company for an American service which would involve the payment of a sum, commencing next year, of £75,000 a year ; and various parties had been before the Treasury in answer to an invi tation that was some time ago issued, though it did not in volve a pledge, on the subject of another line. Australia, which was now supplied by the Red Sea, was likewise de sirous of having a communication across the Isthmus of Panama. Without being able to state the precise sum that would be required if that line of steamers were established, it would lead to a further and great additional charge. Nor was this all, because undoubtedly the effect of our policy had been to create all over the world where British shipping was established, where there were British interests or Bri tish settlements, a confident and sanguine expectation that the purse of the British public would be available for the purpose of supplying them with regular and expensive post age communication. (Hear, hear.) And this impression was gaining ground from year to year, so that unless the House of Commons was to take serious cognizance of the subject, they had only to continue in the present course, and they would find that that which was now merely in expec tation, would have hardened into a principle, and an abso lute dogma, which he might almost say no Parliament would be able to resist. Underthese circumstances he wouldnot say wills% policy should be pursued, as he would not prejudice the general question, but it was plain that on every principle that ought to regulate the public expenditure, and ought to impress upon the House of Commons a jealousy of its privileges, the time had come when this matter should be sub jected on the part of the House of Commons to a careful exa mination. He did not think it necessary to add anything to what he thus briefly stated as the general reasons for the appointment of this committee. If the committee were ap pointed it would be the endeavour of the Government, and he hoped they would receive every assistance from others, to select the names of those who were to form it with a view of securing as far as possible all the objects of a just, impartial and thorough-going inquiry. As to the scope of the com mittee, the words that he had drawn had been intended to make the inquiry as wide as possible. Indeed he ventured to propose, if there was no objection, a verbal amendment which would have the effect of making it a little wider. It was limited as it now stood to steam packet companies for the conveyance of mails beyond the limits of the United Kingdom. He thought it better to say the conveyance of the mails by sea, which would include the conveyance of the mails between Holyhead and Dublin. Of course it was not necessary for him to say that Parliament might be assured that a committee of the House of Commons, in in vestigating this subject, would conduct its investigation sub ject to the restraints which might be imposed by considera tions of good faith as well as public policy. At the same time he apprehended it would be the duty of the committee to examine carefully into every transaction which had been concluded, and which might from its nature appear to be illustrative of the general subject, or present considerations of importance. He took leave to mention the intention of Government, in answer to a question that was put the other day with regard to a contract recently concluded for convey ing the mails from Galway to St. John's, Newfoundland. He had no doubt that that matter would attract the attention of the committee; and although the arrangements were con cluded so far as to bind her Majesty's Government, those arrangements might be said in some degree to be in embryo. He did not doubt that they would attract the early atten tion of the committee, but at the same time he would say that the committee would not be appointed with any exclu sive, he might say with any special, relation to those ar rangements ,• and; although it would be their duty to con sider everything relating to them, yet it would likewise have been the duty of the Government to propose the ap pointment of this committee, if the contract for a steam ser vice between Galway and St. John's had not been made. Mr. H. HERBERT said it was not his intention to trouble the house with any remarks upon the subject, but ho would say a few words in relation to the extension of the inquiry, so as to include the contract for the steam packets between Dublin and Holyhead. He had the honour of being chairman of the committee on postal communication with Ireland, and while it was sitting he had communications from a vast number of persons connected with Ireland, and he could assure the right hon. gentleman that the interest felt in the subject in Ireland was most intense. Great satis faction was manifested when their demands were conceded, which would be followed by 'corresponding disappointment if it was understood in that country that it was intended to reopen therquestion. Sir S. NORT lICOTE entirely concurred in the motion, and no doubt the same feeling would pervade all the mem bersof the late Government. There was no indisposition on his part to enter into a full discussion on all the matters that had been alluded to, but it was far more convenient that they should take the course proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It was quite true that the report of the commis sion held out a hope that something would be done to re duce the charge. In the report they entered generally into the principle on which pa cket services ought to be con ducted, and on which the Government ought to subsidise lines. The general view was that the packet service was one that ought to be carried on by government, and that it should be carried on by contract. They also determined that in considering what lines should be started, reference should bo had to the circumstances of the line not merely in a postal point of view, but in a local, social, and political point of view. But though they thought it well at the commencement of a line to grant subsidies, it was questionable whether it m w ,a a s s well to sab e l o e nt t iil o u m e tahkeemimTckheety salhsiposconasviadielraebdlewhfoerth‘evrairt advi purposes, and they thought that it was. They also thought they should endeavour to try the experiment whether it was best to have contracts for long or for short periods, even contracting for a single voyage. That was tried, and the re sult was that the expenditure was lessened until it was re - p in p o t s h i e t e y w e a a s r 1 i Bs n 7 p , o w w h e e r n this system was, for reasons w hich t d h u e c e Government 7 0 5 f 0 t , o h o e o n a o b y l e e O a ones, materially altered, and the expenditure for the packet he dared say were good rlrbduto service jumped up in one year fr om £750,000 to £923,000, or thereabouts. They had had con siderable experience of the to effect of short contracts, and especially Australia, and it was not found satisfactory. The colonies complained, and the Government of the day thought it necessary to revert in some measure to the old system, and establish a regular packet service. Since that time various additions had been made to the packets, until the expenditure amounted to the sum that had been named. Ho was glad, therefore, that they were going to consider the subject fully. In the report of the committee they speculated on the possibility of a war. That which was then a speculation became a m atter of fact. They had h a d a war , an d in that war they SrtNV the great advantage of having a large supply of steam packets for the conveyance of troops and stores. Lie had no doubt that that was one of the reasons for reverting to tho old system. He thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer was perfectly right , in making the terms of the reference as wide as possible, but he thought they were not even now quite wide enough. The committee was directed to inquire into the manner in which contracts had been formed; he should like to have an in quiry, not as to the manner, but as to the principles on which the contracts had been formed, which was the real question at issue. The commission of 1853 endeavoured to find out the cost after deducting the amount received for postage, and they came to the conclusion that about £500,000 out of the £853,000 was re-paid in postage, leaving the net expenditure £3530)0. There was another point. The right hon. gentle man opposite had u pon t o the principle that the colonies A m id be called upon to bear one-half of this expenditure, and he drew up an able minute on the subject. Circum stances had as y e t prevented thein from taking ad van t a ge of it, and no money, or very little, had yet been received from the colonies on this account. He hoped they would be CHURCH RATES. The select committee agreed to on a previous evening was nominated. IRISH MILITIA. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to put a ques tion, of which he had given notice, as to whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to embody any por tion of the militia of Ireland in the event of there being no establishment of volunteer rifle corps in that country ? It appeared from what passed in the House of Commons that the Government had made up their minds not to move at the present moment in the establishment of rifle corps for Ire land ; and remembering what took place last year in the north of Ireland, he thought their determination was per fectly right. He wished, however, to impress upon the Government the necessity of making provision for the mili tary defence of that country. The Duke of CLEVELAND considered that if any addi tional regiments of militia were to be embodied, England had quite as strong a claim as Ireland. He did not wish to de teact from the merits of the proposed rifle clubs, but it was absurd to suppose that they could be in any way regarded as a substitute for a militia or a regular military force. He had no objection to an increase in the embodied militia of Ire land, but contended that the same advantage ought tobe ex tended to this country. A c ommission had been appointed to inquire into the militia system generally, and he thought it highly desirable that their report should bepresented as early as possible. At present that system was open to objection in many respects, and he instanced as one defect the practice of pa yi n g arbounty to militiamen on joining the regular army equal to that which ordinary volunteers received on enlist ment, in addition to the bounty to which they were entitled on entering the militia. He was not one of those who anti cipated invasion or a French war—on the contrary, he looked upon both the one and the other as most impFobable; but that was no reason why we should not arm inv e vert possible way to make the defences of t he country as perfect as possible. Lord HARDINGE thought, until the report of the com mission was before their lordships, it was superfluous to discuss the question. He trusted that when that report stepspres;he Government would be prepared to take ste to carry out such improvements as might be shown to be necessary. • The Earl of BANDON called attention to the insuffi cient defences of Cork and the south-west coast of Ireland, and reminded the house that Bandon was no better pro tected now that when the French effected a landing there in the year 1797. The Earl of RIPON observed that the noble marquis had been correctly informed that the Government had no present intention of extending the organisation of rifle corps to Ireland, and for two reasons,—first, that no appli cation had been made for that purpose from the sister king dom ; and secondly, because the act under which volunteer corps could be raised in Ireland differed materiallyfrom the act under which such corps could be raised in this coun try ; and before anything could be done, it would be neces sary that those differences should be removed by a legisla tive enactment. In answer to the noble marquis's ques tion, he had to reply that the Government did not propose to embody any fresh regiments of militia in Ireland. It was determined at the beginning of the year by the late Government, r that certain regiments both in England and Ireland, which were embodied. should be disembodied, as regiments of the line arrived home from India to take their places. Subsequently, however, the state of affairs induced them to abandon that intention, and the present Govern ment proposed in this respect to follow in the steps of their predecessors. (Hear, hear.) It should be borne in mind that while volunteer rifle corps occasioned very little charge upon the public, the expense of embodied militia regiments was very considerable, and the Government, not being of opinion that any addition to the number of embodied regiments was requisite at present had come to the deter minationwhich he had already stated. This decision, how ever, was by no means consequent upon any disregard of the military wants of Ireland, which he could assure noble lords commanded the constant attention of the Govern ment, who would neglect no necessary means of placing that country in an efficient state of defence. He believed the report of :the commission which had been referred to would soon be presented, and then the question of the mi litia generally might be discussed. With regard to the observations of the noble lord opposite (Bandon), he would add that the defences of the south and west coast of Ireland would receive the same attention as the defences of every other part of the country. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE could see no reason why rifle clubs should not be established in Ireland as well as in England. He had no fears of invasion, at the same time he thought every precaution ought to be taken to place the country in the most perfect state of defenee. He did not look for any very valuable conclusions in the report of the commission, and was therefore in favour of entering into the consideration of the question at once as to how far the present system under which the militia was embodied was the most advantageous. He considered the practice of calling out the men of the unembodied regiments 21 days in each y.ar as open to many objections. After a few words from the Earl of DONouGintonE, which were inaudible, The Earl of RIPON observed that it might be well to state that no fresh regiments of militia were intended to be embodied either in England or Ireland ; but it was possible that some of those regiments now embodied would be dis embodied and others substituted, but there would be no addition to the embodied force. Their lordships adjourned at aquarter-past seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. NEW MEMBERS. Lord Castlerosse took the oaths and his seat on his re-election for Kerry, vacant byl his acceptance of the office of Chamberlain of the Royal Household ; Mr. J. D. Fitzgerald, Attorney-General for Ireland, on his re-election for Ennis ; Lord A. Paget, Clerk Marshal, on his re-elec tion for Lichfield ; and Lord Fermoy, on his election for Marylebone. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' Amendments to the Caledonian Railway Bill were considered and agreed to, and the bill was ordered for third reading. On the motion for the consideration of the Lords'Amend ments to the Red Sea and India Telegraph Company (No. 2) Bill, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that this bill, which was of public importance, had been dealt with as a private bill, and was not referred to a committee. Ho wever, it was returned from the House of Lords with a long amendment, and he thought that it should be treated as a public bill, and pass through the same process. The public were subjected to a charge of £36,000 a-year on the under taking, and under the circumstances the matter should be submitted to further consideration before the present motion was agreed to. The SPEAKER said that the bill had been considered by a committee of the whole house, and not having been opposed by anybody, there were no special grounds for its being referred to a select committee. Mr. MASSEY said that, in the arrangements which had been entered into by the Treasury with the-company, provi sion had been made for the ample protection of the mterests of the public. Sir J. GRAHAM considered that the house was very much indebted to the hon. baronet for having called atten tion to the subject, and moved that the consideration of the Lords' amendments should be postponed until Monday next, which was agreed to. The Swansea Harbour Trust Bill was read a third time and passed, and the Falkirk Police Improvement Bill was advanced a stage. ' PARKHURST PRISON. On the motion of Sir W. MILES, an address for a re turn of the number of persons Parkhurst Prison is capable of containing, together with the average number of persons confined there for the last three years, ending the 30th day of December, 18.58, was ordered. POSTAL COMMUNICATION WITH AMERICA. Mr. JACKSON moved an address for copies of all cor respondence between her Majesty's Government and the Provincial Government of Canada, in reference to the conveyance of mails between this country and British North America : Of an address to her Majesty, voted by the Parliament of Canada on the same subject : and of all correspondence between her Majesty's Govern meat and the British and North American Royal Mail Steam• Packet Company or Sir Samuel Cunard, Bart., on the subject of the prolongation or renewal of the contract made with that company for the conveyance of the mails to and from North America. COINTY RATES (IRELAND). • Mr. HASSARD asked the Chancellorof the Exchequer if he intendedto act upon the recommendations contained in the report of the select committee on the county rates (Ireland), presented in July, 1858, and if he intended to take a vote in the estimates for that purpose ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the Government had been in communication with. the Irish Government, and had not received any reply to a letter which they had recently addressed to the latter, but a copy of that document had been again forwarded, and would no doubt be attended to. REFORM OF THE CORR POATION OF LONDON. In reply to Mr. J. Locx.E, Sir G. C. LEWIS said it was his intention to introduce a bill on the subject of the reform of the Corporation of a nd that the bill would be in conformity with last recommendationsi of thecommittee on this subject. t L h o e n don ENGAGEMENTS FBETW ,R EEN RUSSIA AND ANC E. Mr. KINGLA.KE asked whether regard for the public service rendered it expedient to withhold the answers of Sir J. Crampton to the despatches of the 25th and 29th of April last, in which Lord Malmesbury directed inquiries to be made concerning the a lleged engagements between. Russia and France. Lord J. RUSSELL said that he ha d search ed the Foreign .office and could only discover a despatch of the Bth of May, and there would be no objection to its production. PERUGIA. despatch rek- Mr. RIOT! ask e d if the r e was any and tive to the events th a t h a d t a ken place at Perugia, whether there was any objection to lay the same on the table ? Lord J. RUSSELL said that two letters on the subject had been received, but he thought it was necessary. to raa. e further inquiries to ascertain the accuracy of the info rtn a tion they contained. and he did not think it would be ad visable to produce these letters until such information had been received. (Hear, hear.) CRIMINAL J USTICE (MIDDLESEX). Mr. L. KING moved an address for returns of the num ber of days during which the Assistant Judge aad Deputy Assistant Judge have each respectively sat at the Middle sex Sessions in each year since 1844, and of the amount of fees or salary which have been paid to the Deputy Assistant Judge in each year since 1844. And of the number of days the Recorder and the Common sergeantlhave sat in their respective courts, and the amount of their respective salaries. PACKET CONTRACTS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved for a select committee to o inquire into the manner in whi c h contrac t s extending ver periods of years have from time to time been formed or modified by biz Majesty's - THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVE/ 4 1ING, JULY 8, 1859. able to go fully into the principle oil which the service was conducted. It was a question intimately connected with our defences and the maritime supremacy of this country. With regard to the Cunard_ line, there had been a great competition, which had tended to drive the American-ves sels from the sea. In the discussions relating to postal ser vices there had often been a difference of opinion between he Admiralty and the Post-office. The Past-office natu- rally wishod all the contracts to be made with sole reference to financial considerations, _ but _ the Admiralty was often actuated by motives of a pOlitical or social character. The Treasury had hitherto had to act as arbitrator between the two, and it would be very important to lay down some general rule for its guidance. (Hear, hear.) Mr. MARSH insisted on the desirability of having but one route to Sydney, and of adopting that by Aden in pre ference to that by Panama. If there were only one line and any packet happened to break down, the next ship might pick up the mail and forward it without much delay. He believed that by adopting the Aden route alone it would be possible to substitute a fortnightly mail for the monthly one without increasing the cost. (Hear.) Mr. CRAWFORD said the real question that would suggest itself to hou. gentlemen, after reading the papers relating to the Galway contract, awl also those relating to the Mediterranean contract, was, whether some rule could not be laid down to place the matter on a more satisfactory footing. There was one matter of very great importance, however, which had not yet been referred to—namely, the way in which this country was likely to be concerned in the great network of telegraphic communication which was spreading itself over the globe. England had hitherto en joyed a great advantage in being the postal carrier of the world, for even the Americans had been obliged to give up to us their lines of ocean postal communication. Still it was probable that the telegraph would supersede to a great extent the post as the means by which the commerce of the world must in future be carried on ; and therefore it was that the subject of telegraphic liries became one to which the committee might most usefully direct its atten tion. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GEORGE trusted that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer would not insist on the alteration which he had made in the wording of his resolution The communication between London and Dublin stood on a footing very diffe rent from the generality of contracts. It was not a contract between a company and one department of the public ser vice, but it was a contract entered into by several depart ments in pursuance of an act of Parliament previously passed. On the faith of that arrangement no less than £300,000 had been borrowed, and to a great extent expended in the building of steamers of superior size and construction. Lord DUNKELLIN said the resolution as it originally stood was unexceptionable, and hoped that the observations of the right hon. gentleman would not have the effect in any way of biassing the committee. With respect to the Galway contract, he had only to observe that as it had been signed, the public faith was pledged to hold it inviolate. Mr. WILSON said the Government had no intention whatever to disturb the Dublin contract. They desired to make the inquiry complete, not to re-open the question of the communications between this country and Ireland. With regard to the large increase which had taken place in the estimates for the packet services, the hon. gentleman (Sir S. Northcote) had partially explained the cause. It must be remembered that the previous plan having broken down, the Government had required the colonies to pay a portion of the charge. The Australian colontes in this way contributed £90,000 a-year ; the Cape, £20,000 ; and the Indian Government £50,000. These sums would go far to cover the increase. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HENLEY approved of the proposed inquiry, but cautioned the house against entertaining any very sanguine hopes of a speedy report. Some time ago he was a member of a committee on the subject of only one mail, and that investigation occupied a very considerable period. Hon. members, therefore, might judge how long the researches of the proposed committee would last. Mr. BIOUVERIE said there was one matter connected with this question on which he should like to come to a clearer understanding—he meant the Galway contract. (Hear.) It was out of that contract that the present inquiry arose; and without wishing to- prejudge the question, he must say, after perusing the papers submitted to the house, that a more reckless, more hasty, more inconsiderate waste of public money had never been entered into. (Loud cheers.) He doubted whether in the terms of the resolution the committee would have power to inquire into the matter there being, as he understood, not a formal contract but only an agreement for a contract. Mr. WILSON—There is a contract. Mr. BOUVERIE—Then of course it would form a sub ject for inquiry before the committee. (Hear.) There were two grounds on which it was open to objection. In the first place, it was a reckless and inconsiderate expenditure of the public money ; and in the next place, the Government had been guilty, towards what seemed to be a very respectable company in Liverpool, of conduct which nobody would be guilty of in his private affairs. (Cheers.) The late Secretary to the Treasury appeared to be very much pleased with the manner in which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had in troduced the subject ; and no wonder. No doubt it would be very convenient to the late Government to have the whole subject consigned to a select committee, which would re port a year hence when the matter, so far as the public was concerned, would be dead and buried. (Hear, hear.) What were the facts ? A company applied to the Newfoundland Government and offered to carry the mails from Ireland to that country and thence to New York and Boston. The home Government agreed to go shares in the subsidy with. the Government of Newfoundland ; and there was a Trea sury minute on the 7th of October, 1858, authorising the advance on certain terms specified of the sum of £1,500, in addition to the subsidy which it was supposed the Govern ment of Newfoundland was also willing to grant. In the minute referred to, the Government left it to the Govern ment of Newfoundland to determine whether they would en ter into a contract with the company represented by Lord Bury, or throw the service open to public competition, or enter into an arrangement with Sir S. Cunard. Lord Bury went out to Newfoundland, and arrived at St. John's on the 21st October, and on the next day he concluded a contract with the Government there, subject to the veto of the Go vernment at home. The contract was however approved by the Home Government; and therefore for the present year both Governments had agreed to the contract withthe Galway Company. On the 31st October the Liverpool Company, to which reference had been made, wrote to London, stating that they understood there was some question about the North American packet service, and that being connected with an independent company trading with America—no doubt greatly to the convenience of the public and to its own advantage—Ahey wished to know whether they would have a fair opportunity of tendering. On the 9th November Sir C. Trevelyan wrote back as follows :—" I am desired by their lordships to state that when a new postal service is about to be established by the Government it is their practice to in vite tenders by public advertisement." (Hear, hear.) This, be it remembered, was afterthe Government had parted with the possibility of advertising tenders for the present year. of January this Atlantic Company forseven years at the rate of 3 a 1 er ha offered r.) to contract 0 a 00 , pa er voyage, . t the or beginning x o 00 a-year. The Government adopted a very se nsible course; they referred the offer to the Peat-office authorities; and on the 4th February those authorities made their report, which was in the strongest possible terms against the contract. The report was a very able document, and he should hate scarcely conceived It possible that the Government, after reading it, could at once enter into the contract on the very terms which had been condemned by the Postmaster-General. (Cheers.) The hon. baronet (Sir S. Northcote) had reminded the house that he was a member of a committee which had reported strongly in favour of short contracts. It was true, he added, that the Government which had preceded his own had disregarded that report. Now that might be a reason why he should complain of the Government to which he had referred. But it could be no reason why the hon. gentleman should himself fly in the face of his own report. It appeared that on the 22d February last the Treasury agreed to contract upon the terms offered by the company. It was rather a singular part of this history that on the very day pn which this agreement for a con tract was assented to by the Treasury Lord Derby was asked a question in the other house with reference to the subject. The Treasury minute, " Write to the Atlantic Royal Mail Steam Navigation Company that my lords will be prepared to enter into a contract as proposed," bore date 22d Feb. On that very day Lord Stanley of Alderley in quired whether any contract had been entered into. Lord Derby replied that "her Majesty's Government had not entered into contract for making Galway the port of depar ture for the mails, but that a proposition had been sub mitted to the Treasury by one of the Atlantic steam com panies for a regular fortnightly service from Galway to some port in North America. That proposition was under negotiation upon the terms submittedby the company ; but before any arrangement was concluded inquiry would be made as to the extent of the benefits to be obtained from such communication, the solvency of the company, and security would be required for the carrying out of the con ditions of the contract in a satisfactory manner." It ap peared, therefore, that at the very moment when the Trea sury had agreed to sanction this contract, Lord Derby was stating to the House of Lords that the matter was still un der consideration, and that no definite contract had been entered into. On the 23d February the Liverpool company, which seemed, like most Liverpool merchants, to be pretty much alive to its own interests, seeing this report in the papers, wrote to their member, expressing alarm about the Galway contract, referring to the statement that all tenders would be open, and wishing to know how the matter really stood. In April, two months afterwards, the Treasury— after distinctly stating it was their practice, when a new postal servic-3 was about to be established to invite tenders by public advertisement, thereby affording to all parties the opportunity of competing for the public service—wrote to the Liverpool company to this effect :—" My lords admit the expediency, as a general rule, of inviting tenders by public competition when new postal services are about to be established, under circumstances in which the principle of competition is properly applicable ; but the case referred to in your letter is quite exceptional." (Cheers and laughter.) The treatment of this company by the Treasury was treat ment such as no gentleman would use towards any man of business with whom he had transactions. (Hear, hear.) lie had had no communication with the company ; he did not know one of them ; his opinion was formed solely from reading the papers and comparing dates. What was the first fact with which the house and this committee would have to deal ? In the face of a lengthened and reasoning report from the Postmaster-General, alleging reasons which were perfectly conclusive why this contract should not be entered into, the Treasury, without giving any reasons whatever upon paper, had thought fit to enter into this con tract for seven years, which would saddle the public with a payment of about £72,000 a par. (Hear, hear.) They said, " My lords cannot regard this as a mere postal contract ; it comprises considerations of a more extended character." (Hear, hoar.) No doubt it was not a mere postal contract — (hear, hear)—it did comprise considerations of a more ex tended character. (Cheers.) Upon the papers as they ap peared the whole proceeding displayed a most reckless and inconsiderate dealing with a great question. It was stated in the course of the correspondence that it was very desirable to encourage this great Irish line. He would not enter at all into the question whether the Galway route was a good one or not; he merely referred to the mode in which the question had been dealt with by the late Government. If the scheme was a wise and pro per one, which it might be, there was a different mode of opening it up—a mode which had been indicated by the Secretary of the Treasury himself. It was said that the new line would be of great service to the et owds of poor emigrants from Ireland, who were now forced to come to Liverpool in order to go to America. But the Treasury into view no business to take a conside ra ti o n of that kind view when Oealing, with this matter; it was simply a postal question and not an emigmtion question; and if they thoutrl!t that facilities ought to be given to the Irish people t 4 emi grate by that route, they should have come to the house and asked its assistance for the purpose. The first contrat which was made with the company was justified on this ground ; but on its being referred to the Admiralty and the Postmaster-General they discovered that it exempted all the vessels of the company from the operation of the Passenger Acts ; and it had to be cobbled up, with the assistance of the emigration commissioners. It would be the first duty of the committee to inquire seriously into this matter. Mr. HORSFALL said he had been the first to bring this subject under the notice of the house, and he had been taunted with being jealous, as member for Liverpool, of the interests of Ireland. This motive he disclaimed, and he had stated the very opinions which Nr. Bouverie had just ex- pressed, ,and read the ♦ery letter from Sir C. Trevelyan which he had read. But having done this, and stood up for his constituents, he felt that the question was a general one, and had left it in the hands of the house. He approved of the committee, and hoped that its inquiries would embrace all the contracts. Mr. ELLICE did not wish to cast any reflection on any party in connection with these contracts, but would draw attention to the injury that had been done to the province of Canada. That province had granted a large subsidy to as sist the people of Liverpool in completing a regular weekly service. The vessels of the Cunard Company were ex tremely well appointed, the letters of the public were car ried for nothing, and the communication was complete. The late Government, under these circumstances, might have had a little regard for the tax-payer before entering into a new contract. (Hear, hear.) He doubted whether the pro posed committee would be of any service ; the facts were well known to the public. If there was one person more meri terious than another in connexion with this business, it was Sir Samuel Cunard ; the way in which he had established .arried on this service entitled him to the thanks of the mblic ; and he was certainly deserving of something like avour. Still the house ought to see that the terms of the con- tract were not too high. There were nightly demands on the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the repeal of the paper duty, or some other tax ; and the house ought not to continue the practice of voting away large sums of inoneywithouyinquir . y. With the means which Sir Samuel Cunard possessed for*/ carrying out'a packet service the payment of £73,000 a year for this new contract was money absolutely thrown away. (Hear, hear.) He was jealous of the quarter from which the proposal for this committee emanated, but hoped that their inglidry would be directed to ascertain whether it was true, as was generally believed by the public, that the Gal way contract was a gross and scandalous job. (Hear.) Mr. VANCE defended the Galway contract, and said that the Cunard service was not satisfactory to the people of Newfoundland. One of the Cunard vessels was recently de tained nine hours at Liverpool for want of water. The Irish traffic alone was so considerable as to require a separate ser • vice. As to public competition, he would observe that the Cunard contract had not been the result of. a competition. The late Government had prolonged Sir Samuel Cunard's contract, and had given him a dislinguished mark of the royal favour, but that was no reason why the interests of Ire land should be overlooked. He hoped the house would not consent tethe committee having any retrospective operation with regard to contracts already entered into. Lord DUNCAN asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the contract was concluded, and whether the house was bound down to its fulfilment for seven Veers to come. Long before this committee reported it would be necessary for the house to deal with the question. In reading the terms of the contract, he could not but feel that the late Treasury had treated the Postmaster-General with contempt. Mr. DISRAELI wished to say, on the part of the late Government, that it would have been much more satisfac tory to them had the subject of the Galway line been brought specificajly under the consideration of the house, and whenever such a course was taken, he would be pre pared to enter fully into the question. (Cheers,) The only condition he would make was one which was not unusual in that house—namely, that fair notice should be given that the subject would be brought forward. (Hear, hear.) From what he had heard before he entered the house with regard to the intention of the Government, he did not expect that the subject of the Galway grant would have been discussed. He was, therefore, unprepared with papers, and had no opportunity of refreshing his recollection, and he believed he might say that all his late colleagues in the Government were in the same position. He certainly would have sup posed that such a statement as had been made by the right hon. member for Kilmarnock would have been preceded by a formal notice. With regard to the contract which ap peared to have excited so much alarm in the mind of the noble lord who last spoke, he believed it would be in the power of the house, when a vote of money was proposed, to reject it entirely. Formerly, when contracts of this nature were concluded, inasmuch as the expenditure was defrayed from the Post-office revenue, they were not subject to the pleasure of Parliament ; but, speaking from recollection, he believed that in the present instance it was for the first time specially provided that the contract should depend upon the approval of Parliament, and the House, of Com mons would, therefore, have a fair and complete oppor tunity of expressing its opinion upon the policy recom mended by the late Government. He would be unable to do justice to the conduct of the late Government if on this occasion, without the opportunity of referring to a single paper, he entered upon a defence of the course they had pursued, or attempted to answer every allegation made by the right hon. member for Kilmarnock. He hoped that, although the house might assent to the appointment of this committee, the right hon. gentleman would find it consis tent.with his convenience to bring the question of the Gal way grant specially before the house, and at as early a period as possible. (Hear, hear.) He would only say that, both with regard to the prcdongation of Sir Samuel Cunard's contract and the conclusion of the contract for the Galway line, the late Government had been influenced by no other consideration than what was thought to be the public ad vantage—(cheers)—and when the committee had instituted an inquiry it would be found that " jobs" were neither so flagrant nor so frequent as it was very easy to assume they were in discussions in that :house. He felt confident that in both the cases which had been referred to—for which in a great degree, and particularly for one of them, the late Government was responsible—it would be found that in ad vising the expenditure of the public money they were influ enced by the only feeling which he believed could influence the Ministers of the Crown in this country—a conviction that the course they recommended was for the public ad vantage. (Hear hear.) He thought it right, before he sat down, to notice one observation which had been made by the right hon. member for Kilmarnock, because it im plied an inconsistency in the conduct of a noble friend of his in another place which could not for a moment be main tained. The right hon. gentleman said that, on the 15th of February—the date of a minute which intimated that the Treasury were prepared to enter into a contract—Lord Derby had stated in the House of Lords, in answer to a question, that the Treasury had not entered into a contract, and the right hon. gentleman dilated upon the inconsistency between this statement and the fact. Now, there was really no inconsistency whatever. When this inquiry was made Lord Derby stated what was precisely the fact—namely, that the Government had not entered into any contract with the Galway Company, although a proposition on the sub ject was under their consideration. Although he (Mr. Disraeli) believed that on the same day a Treasury minute was agreed to, announcing that the Government were pre pared to enter into a contract, that minute intimated at the same time that its adoption was subject to certain condi tions being agreed to and fulfilled by the company, and weeks elapsed before those conditions were ascertained and settled. There was, therefore, no inconsistency between the language of the minute and the statement of 'his noble friend. He thought it was due to Lord Derby that be should make this explanation, and he regretted that the course taken by the right hon. member for Kilmarnock limited to this point for the present his vindication of the Govern ment. He could only repeat for himself and his late col leagues that they would be perfectly prepared to vindicate the course they had pursued if the right hon. gentleman would bring the subject of the Galway contracts specifically under the consideration of the house, and he entertained the utmost confidence that their conduct would receive the approval of Parliament. Mr. RICH contended that Mr. Bouverie had most pro perly introduced the subject of the Galway contract, now that the house was appointing a committee on contracts. He wished to call attention to the Dover contract, entered into in 1854. In 1855, the contractor asked for more favourable terms. These were not granted, but he got an extension of the contract. In 1857 he applied for further indulgence without success. The matter rested till January last, 20 months, when the application was renewed to the late Go vernment, who, after a reference to the Post-office, agreed that the contractor should receive additional compensation for extra services arising out of the increased communication with India. He afterwards sent in a fresh demand. The report of the Post-office was that the contract was entirely objectionable in principle and practice. The report of the Post-office was made on the 10th of March. Then they heard nothing more of it till the middle of April. About that time the aspect of affairs in that house changed. A fresh demand had been opened on the part of the contractor, and his demands, which had been strongly reported against by the Post-office, were acceded to by the Treasury. The terms were that he was to have an additional subvention of £2,500 a year granted to him, and the period of his contract was extended from 1863, when it would expire, to 1870. The grounds for accepting those terms were that the contractor had, some time previously, bought some old vessels from the goirernment, that he lost two vessels and had three collisions in the course of two years, and that the conveyance of the mails under the old system cost £5,000 a year more than under the new contract. All these were bad reasons for en tering into the contract. It was not the question how much the mails had been carried for under an old and exploded system, but how much they would now be carried for. He begged the house to remark the date of the, contract. It had been refused in 1857 by the preceding Government ; atth e begin ning ning of the present year there was what was tantamount a refusal by the late Government. Then came the period of the dissolution. Between the 10th of March, when the Post office reported strongly against it, and the 15th of April, there was a want of documentary evidence valde deliendus. He considered that this contract required a special inquiry, and that the conduct of the late Government should not be cushioned and smothered by a general inquiry which might last two or three years. He hoped it would be understood that these two contracts —the Dover and the Galway con tract—were to be entered into at the earliest moment by the committee, and if the result was to clear the late Govern ment of any imputation he should rejoice. Mr. LYGON said the hon. gentleman drew an inference unfhvourable to the late Government from the fact that the matter had been entirely dropped between March and April. He gave his unqualified denial to the representation made, because a great many things had been brought under his notice between those dates for consideration, although they did not asume a form which required them to be entered on paper. He believed the Dover contractor had been no pecun i ar y gainer by , the contract beyond the renewal of the con t r act, for the addition of £2,500 was little more than payment for special services performed for the Government. The contractor also undertook to make certain improve ments in the conduct olthe packet service which would be most ad vantag,couato the public. He agreed in the doctrine that the losses of the contractor should not form a ground for showing him any favour, but from the way in which the contractor in this instance exerted himself to meet the in creased pressure of the Indian correspondence he showed that he deserved an extension of his contract. Sir M. PETO said a very strong feeling existed in the public mind on the subject of these contracts. As an instance of the mode in which these contracts were conducted he would mention that a deputation from Canada called on the right hon. gentleman the member for Devonport, with re gard to the Cunard contract, and they were informed that it was not the intention of the then ilovernment to renew that contract. The province of Canada, acting under that im pression, subsidised a line at a cost of £lOO,OOO between Liverpool and the St. Lawrence. But the Cunard contract had been subsequently extended, on which account the people of Canada felt that a great practical injustice had been done to them. When the Legislature of Canada met hi. had no doubt they would receive some strong protests on this subject. Mr. M‘MAHON regretted to see so much commercial jealousy of Ireland exhib ~ed as was developed by the whole of this .transaction respecting the Galway line. It was matter of notoriety, as was evident from the report of the committee of 185.3 on steam packet contracts, that the coun try lost no less than £500,000 a year by subsidies granted to various s t eam pac k e t com panies in this country over and above the net earnings of the Post-office. (Hear, hear.) The Cunard contract alone entailed a net loss of iaof less than 1:61,642 ; the Halifax and New Yo rk line, £173,000 ; the West Inhia and Brazil line, from Southampton, £180,000; the Callao and Valparaiso line, £19,525. In the report of the Post-office, just published, these sums were very properly called bounties and subsidies, and were not estima•ed as deductions from the revenue of the Post-office receipts. . The reason was, that the expenditure was en tered into for other than maintaining postal communication —namely, " for fostering maritime enterprise, and moon. raging the production of a superior class of vessels," If that were so, was it not desirable to encourage packet stations in 1 Ireland, to promote the same objects ? (Hear.) Let the house act on the true principles of political economy by abolishing all bounties and subsidies, and then Ireland would beat England in the American traffic, because they could sail faster and cheaper. They incurred a net loss of £500,000 for England to foster commerce and the building of large ships ; but the moment a trifling sum of £12,000 was granted to a line from Ireland, on which it was by no means certain that a single penny of the public money would be lost, then the principles of pclitical economy, or rather the commercial rivalry and hostility of the conntry, were set in motion to resist it. (Hear, hear.) He thought the late Government ware entitled to great credit and honour for resisting this feeling, and doing justice to Ireland. Mr. BEAMISH moved to re-insert at the end of the motion the following words, " beyond the limits of the United Kingdom." Mr. WHITESIDE said he did not intend to speak on the amendment which had just been moved, but he could not help expressing his surprise at the absence of the right - hon. gentleman the member for Kilmarnock after the ex plosion of so muoh patriotic indignation. He took part in a meeting in Dublin ten years ago on this very subject, and yet it was said it had been suddenly got up by the late Government as, a job. The right hon. gentleman, after assuming everything in bis own favour, walked out of the house. (Hear.) There is not a town or city in Ireland, ex cept Cork and Limerick, which had interests of their own in the matter, which did not express their desire in favour of the packet-station at Galway. A noble lord who was not now in the Cabinet, for what reason he did not know, congratulated the promoters on the success of the under taking, which had been now established by experiment. The noble lord who wrote the letter in which that avowal was made was Lord Clarendon. (Hear.) It was no small advantage that the dangers of the Channel passage were avoided by, the establishment of the Galway line. The house would recollect the calamity which happened to the Great Britain. Another vessel was also wrecked in passing down the Channel. He did not like to name the vessel, because which of them it was he forgot. (Loud laughter. But independently of its commercial and political advan tages, the quick passage by the Galway line conferred a benefit on the second and third class passengers which they could not'get by any other route. Did they suppose that the* people of Ireland could like to see their letters and draughts carried past their own shores, and brought back after a delay of two or three days ? (Hear.) If they did not think Ireland entitled to this small accommodation let them say so. The memorial in favour of the Galway line was signed by Baron Rothschild, by Peabody and Co., Masterman, Peters, and Co., and by great numbers of com mercial men in Manchester and Birmingham. No doubt the Galway line would benefit Belfast, and would not bene fit Liverpool, and the upshot, he thought, would be that the linens of the north of . lreland would be conveyed to the west of Ireland, instead of being shipped across to Liver pool. (Hear, hear.) He claimed this as a matter of right to Ireland if it was just, and he had no fear that it would be proied to be just, provided the committee was not cora , posed of those who were determined to condemn first and inquire after. (Heir.) Mr. COWPER said that the right hon. gentleman made an unfair charge on the right hon. member for Kilmarnock, because he had left the house after making a temperate speech. (" Hear, hear," and " Oh, oh.") His right hon. friend gave chapter and verse fcr everything he said, and after the remarks of the right hen. gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) he could not have supposed that the house would enter into the subject. But the right hon. and learned gentleman, instead of meeting the case against the Government, ap pealed to the patriotic feelings of Irishmen, and made it a question as between England and Ireland. Nothing had been said which could lend the slightest shadow of accuracy to such a view as that. He for one was delighted that Ire land had a packet communication of her own. But no such scheme had ever been proposed as a Government would have been justified in adopting. The complaint against the late Government was not because they chose to estab lish a Galwarjacket service, but because they chose to estab lish a duplicate line at the same time that they extended the Cunard contract. (Hear, hear.) If they had wished to deal economically with the finances of the country, instead of extending the Cunard contract, they would have looked for ward to a reduction of it, and a transfer of some portion of the service to the new line from Galway to the United States. If that had been done there would have been no complaints. The Government. were censured because they disregarded the principle laid down in the letter of the Sec retary to the Treasury, and gave the contract without any competition. There was no objection to an Irish line. The objection was only to the way in which the ,contract had been given, and that he hoped would be sifted by the com mittee. In the case of the Dover contract the Government had shown a similar disregard of the principle of competi tion, and renewing the contract while it had four years to run, had deprived the public of possibly a very great ad vantage. Lord NAAS was glad to hear the right hon. gentleman admit that a great public object would be attained by the establishment of a direct line from Galway to America. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. member for Kilmarnock had denounced the whole scheme from beginning to end as a profligate waste of public money. (Hear, hear.) What was the course taken by the late Go'i emment ? They found a company at Galway in possession of the ground and per forming the service, and they gave them the contract. It was quite true the line had not been put up to public com petition, but there was no absolute rule that it should be so. Great stress had been laid on the letter' f Lord Colchester, but he said he would not object to the contract if any great public object would be attained by it, and if the remunera tion was made dependent on the success. The Treasury bad carried out that principle, and unless the line was successful, the promoters would not be entitled to the remuneration. Putting Ireland entirely out of the question, the new line would materiallyimprove the communication, as it appeared that the company were bound to perform the service in '24 hours less than the average of the Cunard line. The whole matter had been most carefully considered by, the Govern ment, and he had no doubt that, when the promoters had an opportunity of setting their case before the committee, they would be able to show that the scheme would confer enormous benefits not only on Ireland but on this country and on Europe at large. (Hear.) if direct telegraphic com munication with America was not established, the compara tive advantages would be still greater. He believed that rival interests and commercial jealousy had a good deal to do with this opposition. He begged the house to recollect that of the large sums voted for postal services none went to any ocean steamers starting from Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Mr. EWART could assure the house that asfar as Liver pool was concerned, there was no feeling of jealousy in the matter. He had denounced the transaction from the first on account of the conduct of the Treasury. He and his col league had gone there to ask that if the Government had decided on establishing a line of steamers from Galway, they would put it up for public competition, if that had been done no complaints would have been made. (Hear.) Col. DUNNE was glad of the discussion, as it would show the people of Ireland that the first act of the new Go vernment was to upset the only advantage they had received for many years. (" Hear, hear," and " No, no.") If the tenders had been open to public competition, the line could never have been worked at all, as it would have been taken by persons who would not work it. The Irish members must look carefully to the selection of the committee, and see that they were not all excluded from it, as they were fiom the present Government. (Hear.) Sir H. WILLOUGHBY considered that the motion be fore the house had been lost sight of. (Hear.) The ques tion was whether they would not appoint a committee to investigate the mode in which these contracts were made. He doubted, however, whether the proposed inquiry was e n i e m t pl t e eo rem la e rg d e y , manigdhthebewdoulevdieesdu, gb g y es r t eci t ui ha ri t n a g n th eas la i w er nd h a end. ever any subvention was granted to a company, it should be proposed to the house by a responsible Mmister, and be treated as a public bill. Sir F. BARING had observed that the naval estimates wouldcontained g g a e vote a t o t n h ea votecco u n be e o f p the oetp n o e v d e r un c o t n il t r e a c ft t. er H thee committee e d h t o a d i t n h q e u y i rf!. could into o t r h d e l y s r u e b s jt e e i c nd . t h I e f e t o h n e t r v e o e t t e was . He o once agre , would suggest that a rule should be made requiring that all these contracts should be laid on the table, and not be valid unless they were unobjected to for a certain time after. Mr. MAGUIRE had expected that the motion would have been agreed to as a matter of course, but it appeared the jealousy of a right hon. gentleman had been excited to such an extent as to induce him to make a violent attack on the late Government. (Hear, hear.) It was a custom to charge Ireland with want of exertion and self-depen dence, but as soon as the Galway people showed they were possessed of both every attempt was made to excite and foment local jealousy in Ireland against them. He had no feeling of the kind. He believed Cork har bour was the first in the world, and it would right itself ; but even at present the Lever enterprise had served it, as it now touched t o ib h le e on r w e t a eo n tnt d et a epi n tre d dp e r d t oe d t h e ei interfere rssmorasi had directed the attentio n o f s hi powners to it, and two lines s it nh a n eoy d r dwe p or a u s t l s od e n i en g xfl e ci te . e I f p t o h s et posthumous the indignation of every community in Ireland. (Hear.) If there were any difficulties in the harbour of Galway why not remove them and give Ireland a share of the millions that were spent on the harbours of this country. He trusted the people of Galway would reap the advantages of their energy, and his proposal to give an additional subsidy of £2,500 to Sir S. Cunard for calling at Cuba was intended in no spirit of antagonism to the Lever enterprise. (Hear.) Lord J. BROWNE had heard, with great pain, from the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the Galway contract was still in embryo. There were no com plaints of granting public money to steamships so long as the monopoly was confined to England, but as soon as Ire land got a share the virtuous indignation of the economist was excited. In what was Liverpool superior to Galway ? It was three or four hundred miles further from America, or fully a day and a half, so that would be a saving of at least a day, and still more for Irish letters. Was Ireland to have an equality in nothing else but taxation ? He thought the best thing to be done would be to let both contracts run out, and then throw the whole open to competition from every port, and let whichever offered the best terms get it. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished to explain one or two points which had been raised. With regard to the discouragement of Irish enterprise, he could assure the house there was no such feeling. He mild not help saying that what had taken place had shown one of the evils that belonged to all systems of subsidies. The in evitable effect of the system of Fouling subsidies in aid of private enterprise was to give rise to jealousy and between. different establishments, all seeking for Govern mental aid. With regard to the order in which the com mittee would act he declined to anticipate, but with re. ference to the manifest convenience of such a course the subject of the Galway contract would first be considered. At the same time, considering that the Dover contract, to which allusion had been made, was one which would occupy perhaps but a limited time, it might perhaps be judged ex•• pedient to take that in the first instance. An hon. friend of his suggested that the motion should be extended so as to give the committee pawer to consider the principle of these contracts. He had no objection to the alteration proposed, but he must say that he thought it unnecessary. As the re solution stood it was for a committee to inquire into the system of these contracts, and to ofler recommendations to the house on the subject. To do this it followed that the committee should consider the principle involved in the whole subject. It remained for him to state to the house the course which the Government intended to pursue pending. this inquiry. The Government considered that whilst the committee sat—a period which, although it might extend beyond a few weeks, would not run to several y ears—the y should, a s muc h as possible, hold their hands from entering into any contract. They therefore intended, in all cases which were not of an urgent nature, or were of a purely temporary character, to take that course. Mr. BE AMISH withdrew the amendment which he had suggested. The motion was then ag reed to. HIGHWAY ROADS. Sir C. LEWIS obtained leave to bring in a bill to amend th e l aw re l a ti ng to highway roads. i He reminded the house that this was a subj ect of na mean mportance. In the year 1855 the amount levied by the Highway Act alone was £1,181,000. The total amount raised for the purpose of re pairingthehi was 42,108,000, whilst the total ex d ff o e w r e , ntth locale w ho authorities, thisof penditnre independent w a £ 4 2 1 , 1 1 a 2 g 6 ,,... , d 0( )0 h y e e n pe lu ndent of each other. The six cou Pa ti ce e tin s dn o i i m t n u t. e e a b a , d i c ltii Wales presented the only exception. 'Various bills had from time to time been brought before Parliament with a view of remedying this state of things ; but, with the ex ception of the South Wales Act, none of these measures had received the sanction of Parliament. The bill which he held in his hand had been introduced by the late Government, had been discussed in that house, and had gone through committee with some amendments. Tinder these circum- stances he would not detain the house with any explanation of the principles of the measures. He had followed the form of the late bill word for word, and he therefore wished that he merit of the measure should be given to.th-eIWG—o-ve-rn---- meta, through one of whose members (Mr. Hardy) the measure had been brought before the house. (Hear.) The bill proposed to give parishes the power of forming them selves into districts, and of appointing a surveyor of the dis • trict for the purpose of keeping the roads in order. _ _ _ ARMY ORGANISATION COMMITTEE. On the motion of Colonel NORTH, that the name of Col. Lindsay be added to the committee, Mr. S. HERBERT consented that the name be substi- tuted for that of Lord Hotham, who was unable to serve. METROPOLIS CARRIAGE WAYS. Mr. COWPER moved for leave to bring in a bill to re strict the erection of permanent structures in the carriage ways of the metropolis. We had (he said) for some time been under the apprehension of a French descent on our coasts, but the fact was that a French descent had really taken place in the great thoroughfares of the metropolis, a French corn panyhaving taken possession of them, and having commenced setting up various objectionable erections, in the most con spicuous places. They had already commenced ()per ations at Hyde-park Corner, where they had broken up the pavement and proceeded to set up a grotesque and tawdry structure, soniething between =Alhambra clock and a Chinese pagoda, under the name of an advertising column. A pretence of usefulness was advanced in favour of these obstructions, on the ground of the information which was thus afforded, such as the time for Cremorno, the names of the vestrymen who had consented to the erection, and the time when Dr. Eady was to be found at home—(a laugh)—but he did not think even this information important enough to justify a posi tive nuisance, the more especially as these columns were calculated to attract foot passengers at points which were most dangerous for themselves and most inconvenient for the circulation. ,The vestries had, he believed, granted a concession in favour of these columns, but he thought they had in doing so completely mistaken the scope of their powers or duties. They never were intended to be looked up to as the guardians of the public taste, although they had full powers to take care of the pavements. It was further urged in favour of these columns that they superseded the greater nuisance of advertising vans; but advertising vans might be got rid of by indictment if the nuisance were proved, and it was a bad method to get rid of one nuisance by setting up another. But an indictment would end in a penalty, and a penalty might not abate the nuisance, as happened in New York in the case of the celebrated Mr. Barnum, who at one time paid four dollars a day for a fort night for the privilege of persevering in a proved nuisance. As the most efficient way of meeting all cases of this de scription in future, he (Mr. Cowper) proposed that a veto should be given to the Chief Commissioner of Works upon the proposed construction of any edifice in the London highways. (Move, move.) He feared that if something of the kind were not done we might gradually find objec tionable edifices rising up in all the most frequented thoroughfares of the metropolis. The hon. member con cluded by moving for leave to bring in the bill. The house divided— For the bill 165 Against it Majority ADULTERATION OF FOOD, &c., PREVENTION BILL. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD, in moving the second reading of this bill, said that its object was to authorise governing bodies in different districts to appoint public analysts to detect such offences, and also to impose certain penalties:on parties guilty of adulteration. Mr. G. HARDY opposed the bill, which, if brought into operation, would lead to a system of informations and spyings-out perfectly intolerable, and to the unn ecessar ily bringing parties before magisirates when there was no .just ground of accusation. Believing the bill would act most oppressively and unjustly, he begged to move as an amendment that it be read a second time that day three months. Mr. CRAWFORD seconded the amendment. Mr. W. COWPER supported the bill, believing some remedy against adulteration to be absolutely necessary. Lord R. CECIL said if the doctrine of the hon. and learned member for Leominster (Mr. Hardy) was to pre vail, Parliament ought not to interfere to prevent a man having arsenic mixed with his lozenges. Tea, coffee, sugar, and other necessary articles of consumption were adulterated to such an extent as to affect the comfort and health of the population, and it was quite impossible for the poor man to protect himself from the injuries inflicted upon him. Mr. WALTER was convinced of the necessity of legis lating on the subject, and trusted the house would consent to the second reading of the bill. Mr. BRADY supported the bill, which was founded on the recommendation of a select committee appointed to in quire into the subject, and expressed his surprise that one of the representatives of the great trading community of the city of London should object to the passing of a measure the object of which was to prohibit the people from being robbed and poisoned by adulteration. (Hear.) • Mr. E. JAMES congratulated the hon. member (Mr. Brady) on having postponed his leave of absence, which had enabled him to be present to advocate this bill. He (Mr. James) believed the really honest tradesman could not object to the bill. It was absurd to say that a poor man who bought a pennyworth of coffee, and got more chicory than coffee, could indict the tradesman. He thought th e bill was b ase d on a sound princip le, and should give it his h ear ty su pp or t. Sir G. C. LE WIS said he thought every member would concur in supporting the principle of the bill, and every bill that came recommended by his hon. friend the member for Birmingham came recommended from a good source. But after having carefully examined the clauses of this bill, with a since re desire to accede to them, he could not agre e to them. The great objection he had to the bill was the vague ness and generality of its provisions. The offences created wore in two branches. The first clause subjected the offender to a penalty if he sold any article of food or drink in which there was any ingredient calculated to injure the health of the person purchasing it. Now, when they knew the variety of opinions entertained by medical men as to what injured health, this provision, it would seem was very vague. Th er e was a school of persons who maintained that if alcohol were mixed with any article—for instance, with water —(a laugh) —it was injurious, and he apprehended that the selling of alcoholic drink would come within that provision. Then the second branch of the offence was this—any personwho should sell or expose for sale any adulterated article of food or drink, to the knowledge of the person so selling it, should be sub jecf to a penalty. It was not said that the article mixed was to be deleterious, but merely that it was to be mixed with and foreign to the article sold. He apprehended that the sale of coffee mixed with chicory would come under the pro vision. (Hear, hear.) Then they came to the machinery by which the bill was worked. District boards were to be appointed to analyse food and drink, for which they were to be paid . It was clear, therefore, that considerable expense would be incurred. Desiringto avoid any legislation which might be vexatious, and might create traps or pitfalls for the honest trader, he did not think that any advantage would arise from passing this bill. After a few words from Mr. BARROW and Mr. D. GRIFFITH, the house divided— For the second reading .... ..... • 227 a . . second ......... ....... 103-124 The be The A bi ga il i w ns as the t il ..... committed on Wednesday week. The Court of Probate. Acquisition of Site Bill went through committee, with the addition of a clause proposed by Mr. Ayrton, providing that the compensation to be paid to the College of Advocates should not be mo r e than the real market value of its property. The Public Health Bill was read a second time. The Clerk of the Council Bill was read a second time. On the motion of Mr. HADFIELD, the Admiralty Court bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed on Tuesday. ROMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Sir W. SOMERVILLE moved the second reading of this bill. Mr. SOTHERON-ESTCOURT hoped the right hon. gentleman would not press the bill that night, as it was only printed and put into members' hands that morning. ' Mr. PIGOTT seconded the amendment. After a few words from several hon, members, the de bate was adjourned. ENDOWED SCHOOLS BILL. Mr. DILLWYN moved that this bill be referred to select committee. Mr. NEWDEGATE opposed the bill, which would, he said, impose for the first time a distinct disability on the Church of England. Th e Ch urc h would be placed in a dif ferent position from all other religioira bodies holding pro perty in the country, because the Church alone would be precluded from acquiring a title by long possession to any property which might have been in her hands for a long series of years. It would be better to refer the whole ques 'lion, and not this bill alone, to a select committee. Mr. HUBBARD opposed the bill, and regretted that such a measure should have received the sanction of the Attorney .General. Mr. HARDY assented to the proposal that the bill should be sent before a select committee, but reserved to himself the right of moving on any future occasion an in struction to that committee. Mr. NEWDEGATE insisted on a division being taken, and the house was cleared for that purpose. Owing, how ever, to a moment's inadvertence, the hon. gentleman ' omitted to press his •demand at the right time, and, amidst much laughter, The SPEAKER declared the motion carried; The house adjourned at 20 minutes before 12. BIRTHS. DAWSON.—On the 6th inst., Mrs. B. Dawson, 36, Hunter ter-street, of a son. GonnoN.—On the 6th inst., at Argyll-house, the Hon. Mrs. Gordon, of a son. NEWTON.—On the 7th inst., at 43, Lowndes-street, the wife of Colonel Newton, of a daughter. Ro§s.—On the sth inst., at 16, the Green, Richmond, Surrey, Mrs. Leith Ross, of Arnage, Aberdeenshire, of a son. MARRIAGES. CA.LKY—WoRsLEY.—On the sth inst., at St. James's, Piccadilly, George Alansan Caley, Esq., eldest son of Sir Digby Caley, Bart., of Brompton, Yorkshire, to Catherine Louisa, d aug ht er o f Si r Wm. Woreley, ast., of Hovingham, Yorkshire. WARD—BILIDGEMAN.—On the sth inst., at I(nockin, Shropshire, Major Francis Beckford Ward, Royal Ar tillery, son of the Very Rev. the Dean of Lincoln, to Emily L. Gertrude, second daughter of Vice-Admiral the Hon. C. 0. Bridgeman. DEATHS. BAKER.—On the 7th inst., Jane, youngest daughter of Mr. Thos. Baker, Grafton Cottage, Hornsey-road, and King street, Cheapside, aged 20. CAPPEL.—On the 4th inst., Annette, youngest twin daugh ter of Mr. James Cappel, 28 , N orthampton-square, aged 4i years. CHAMPNESS.—On the 26th ult , at Brighton, Mr. T. Champness, of Ab r id ge , E ssex. EVANS.—On the 6th inst., Ruth, wife of Geo. F. Evans, Esq., of Hanover-lodge, Kew-bridge. EVELYN.—On the 29th ult., Charlotte, the wife of F. E. Evelyn, Esq., of Holland House, Jersey, aged 35. FAIRMAN.—On the sth inst. , at Brighton, Joseph Fair man, of Bishop's Stortford, Herts. GREY.—On the 6th inst., at 4, Abbey-place, St. John's - wood, E mma, wife of W. Y. Grey, Esq. LONDON : Printed and Published by MIIRDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sue Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of Middlesex, Friday, 71113 , 8, 1869.