The Sun. — London, England, 1860-02-17 00:00:00

penal servitude for stealing a few sticks from a fagot stack; Whether there was any truth in the statement ? Sir G. C. LEWIS said that an application had been made to the Chairman of the Quarter Sessions relative to the matter, but no information had yet been received. LORD ELGIN. Mr. B. OSBORNE inquired whether there was any truth in the statement which had appeared in the news papers, to the effect that Lord Elgin was about to be sent in fa mission to China ? Lord J. RUSSELL said that he could not answer 'that question at present. THE RUSSIAN COMPANY. Mr. HUBJWRD asked the President of the Board oi Trade whothff he had received any, and, if any, what com munication from the Governor of the Russian company, eituciaiiiilestieVy of dues by that company. Mr. M. GIBSON said that it was intended to remove the dues alluded to in the event of the treaty with France being agreed to by the house. MANNING THE NAVY. Sir C. NAPIER moved that in the opinion of this house the recommendations of the commissioners on manning the navy ought to be taken into consideration by her Ma jesty's Government, with a view to carry out the prin ciples of such recommendations. The Secretary to the Ad miralty had declared that France had the same number of ships that we had, and had extra means of manning them by having recourse to her reserves ; but the English fleet could not be ms nned in that way. Such a declaration by a member of Government was one of the most extraordinary declarations he had ever heard. He was glad that we had a respectable and well manned fleet at the present moment : but we lived in very odd times. France appeared to him, more particularly after what had passed that night, to oc cupy a very uncertain position with regard to Great Britain sad other nations. All this might end peaceably ; but as we were not sure that it would, the Government ought to take steps, let it cost what it would, to secure that we should be able to bring forward as great a naval force as France. Every man in the house, soldier, sailor, or civilian, knew perfectly well that things had taken a very different turn of late years from what they had done in former ones. No man could tell what would be the effect of the first naval action fought between France and England. We had great reliance on our sailors and officers, but the changes in other respects were so perfectly extraordinary, and had never yet been tried, that it was impossible for any one to tell what would be the effect of the first collision.' In for mer days, when a British man-of-war fell in with a French man-of-war, the doom of the latter was fuel ; and the same when a British fleet fell upon a French fleet. In the late war the action fought on the Ist of June by Lord Howe was a very severe action ; it was fought well both by the French and ourselves. We were conquerors, but that action was fought after the French Revolution, when the most distin guished officers had left the service, and the French ships were not manned so well as ours. That battle was gained, but no human being could tell what would be the result of the next naval action, when they had guns which fired shot that would make a hole as large as a wheelbarrow. (A laugh.) No one could say what the effect of molten iron would be. It was probable that in the first naval action which was fought, both fleets would be almost annihilated, and if in that case the French were able to bring forward another fleet, what would be the position of this country ? It would be almost annihilated. Now the Government stated by the mouth of one of their own officers that we were not in a position to send a second fleet to sea. It was true they had a reserve in the different ports of England, and a recommendation was made that the coast-guards should be increased to 12,000 men, but they were only increased to 8,100. With regard to the coast volunteers, it did not appear so much atten tion was paid to them as was the case some years ago. On a former occasion he proposed that efficient men-of-war should take the place of the block ships, and the noble lord at the head of the Government voted for that motion. They had 48 sail of the line but 27 only were in commission. Now what was to hinder the Government from replacing the inefficient block ships by efficient men-of-war ? This was a step which ought to be taken, but whether it was owing to dereliction of duty on the part of the Admiralty, or to stubbornness in resisting proposals that did not emanate from themselves, they were just in the same posi tion as they were last year when he brought forward his motion. The noble lard the Secretary to the Admiralty admitted that seamen entertained great suspicion of the Beard. He quite agreed with the seamen in their view. How could sailors place any confidence in that Board ? Some time ago the Admiralty found it necessary to call out what were called the long pension men, promising the same pay and allowances as they had before. But did the Board carry out what they had promised ? Here was the petition of the men, complaining that the promise held out had not been fulfilled. (The hon. and gallant admiral commenced to read a portion of the petition in question, but the daylight in the house not being sufficient, he re quested the Speaker to order the light to be set on. This having been done the gallant admiral proceeded to say that this was only one amongst many instances where the men were dissatisfied, and justly so, with the conduct of the Board of Admiralty. When there was such a want of men would any person in his sane senses believe that an order had been sent to the different ports directing that when a ship came into port, if any of the men were found outside, they were to be taken up as stragglers, and their pay stopped ? This only came to his knowledge yesterday, and when he heard it hetsearcely believed it to be possible. With regard to the report of the manning commission, the Ad miralty had not carried out the recommendation respect iv g the boys and seamen gunners. He admitted that bread and meat were improved, that clothes and bedding had been supplied, that the allotments had been carried out, and that the reserve ships were in such a state that they were ready for the men to go into the moment they were commissioned. The bounty question was the most impor tant, however. He believed he had as much to do in get ting the bounty for the seamen as any other man, and it was most successful in manning the fleet. The fleet was now manned ; but was it prudent to reduce the bounty to ? £lO might be too high a-bounty after the fleet was manned, but certainly much more thanl4 ought to be given. He now came to the important point of the reserve, and in regard to it he did not think that the Government had taken the proper steps to obtain success. They were now obliged to keep up a large fleet. He did not mean to say that ten sail of the lino was too large a force on the home station, but such a large fleet would not be necessary if they had a proper reserve. If they had a reserve of 5,000 men, giving £lO a piece to men who had served ten years, which was called the short pension. they would always have a body of men who would be as ready to be called on as if they were on board the fleet. But if they were obliged to employ 6,000 additional men on board the fleet, they would cost at a low estimate .L 250,000 ; whereas the reserve force of 5,000 men:would not cost above £50,000. If £lO was not sufficient to get the men, they ought to increase it to £l2, or to a still higher sum, so important was the object to be gained. The commissioners recommended an.increo.se of 5,000 marines, but that had wily been carried out to the extent of 1,000. With regard to the royal volun teers the commission put them down at 20,000, but it would be difficult•to find out where they were, or the 10,000 naval coast volunteers. That was the reserve force pointed out by the commission, but that reserve force they had not got and never would. He had pointed out before that it was not necessary to press men into the service, but it was necessary to get them out of the service as fast as they could. If men who had served their country ten years, or even five years, got a pension of five years, and were en couraged to go into the coastguard volunteers, allowing three years' time there to count for two of effective service, it would contribute to the formation of an effective reserve. But when the house should read the report of the Greenwich Hospital Commissioners, they would be astonished to see what " advantages " th at hospital held out to seamen, and when they had seen the manner in which, from year to year, sailors' wives and children had been treated at Greenwich Hospital, they would be induced to come to the conclusion that that institution, instead ef being a blessing, was almost a curse. He had laboured for years to have that commis sion appointed, and he never read such horrible details as the evidence given before it exhibited in the whole course of his existence. He had now gone through pretty nearly the whole of what he had to say, but there was one point he must not leave out, because it was so rich. In 1857 the Government decided to pay off seven sail of the line, but at a subsequent period they were a b so l ute l y obliged to give a bounty of £lO each to bring back the men they had paid off. Ile intended to do all he could to get the Admiralty re formed, for every one declared it was excessively bad at pre sent. He must, however, give them the credit to any that the other day they did a praiseworthy thing. Baldwin Sir Walker, eurveyor to the navy—than whom there wasno more efficient public servant—could not go down into the dockyard and give a single order to the superintendent of power of any d escr i p ti on. H e the dockyard, and had no was happy to say, however, that the Admiralty had now made Sir Bald win comptroller, so that he could now go into the dockyard au* give any orders he thought proper, an arrangement by which hundreds of thousands of pounds would be saved to the country. He was sorry to have de tained the hote4e so long, but he looked upon this as a very important subject. After what they had heard about France and Savoy, it was impossible for any man to say what might be the consequence in six months hence, and the noble lord at the head of foreign affairs might be one of the first who—he was going to say—might be brought to the block. (A laugh.) If we lost our channel fleet we had no reserve, while the French had a reserve, and in case of any untoward circumstances arising out of that state of things he Should not like to be in the Ministers' shoes. But if they put their shoulders to the wheel they would be" able to maintain their position; let them get a proper reserve, which would only cost 150,000, and without that re serve they could net man their fleet (H ear , hoar.) The hon. and gallant member concluded by placing in the Speaker's hand the resolution of which he had given notice. Sir M. SEYMOUR seconded the motion. Mr. HENLEY said it was impossible to read the valu able evidence given before the commission on manning the navy without coming to one of two conclusions-0:30 of which was, that when the navy was stated at anything like an even number there was no difficulty in getting as many men as were wanted ; on the other hand, it seemed quite clear that in case of war breaking out, then there was great difficulty in getting the number of men required. It had been said that the Queen's service was not popular in the merchant service, and it was also said that the mer chant service had no confidence in the Admiralty. Many things had happened lately to bear upon this point. The right hon. baronet opposite some years ago got up a great Crimping machinery to get men far the xavy ; but it turned outtinat seamen did not like to be " ticketed' any more than te . nonconformists. (A laugh.) Be that as it might, that nava lnachinery had now been set up in order to get up a cir cumstances' He should have thought, under these cir ances, and looking to the legislation of last year, and viewin g tho ex' t . 18 mg state of feeling in the merchant service, if there w as on than another,one point w hi c h oug ht t o b e cons id ere d more it was the terms of service in the navy. The condition of the terms should be so plain and simple that anybody could havmeroecaiedoand understood them, which would be - the most likely mtr f a reeloving the suspicion that there -was any intention to t o for this service. (Hear.) It was said that men ot H ig e h a t P hou b ls grll e d cut by proclamation upon an emer me i a k n e t. to I T ia h N z -e a a e n t i s n ai t d er i p t re w t a a ; tion of what an "emergency" when her Majesty might think fit, but was not the c ondition. Seamen naturally ask what they mean — eras it that w hen war or invasion was expected, or there was any dan ger of it ? He tho u g ht a great de dof the legislatio n of th a t house about sea men treated them as if they; were all f uels. Now they were no such thing. The y were a most tilpi efous race of mortals , and when y ou held out to thorn term s i- which nobody could understand, they would be tot a ll y at a USA to comprehen d what was meant by an " emergency." The 'next question was as to the period of service. Five years was • the time specified, but that might be carried out to within a few days of ten years. A fi plain man would say, "I'll make a b ar g ain with you for vo ears B . ut the- was not the state of the cas e ; yet they wanted A. B. seen, and there were not many of them. The Manning Commis sioners told them there were only 66,000 of them altogether. Ile (Mr. Henley) thought it would be desirable to employ the married men in the coasting trade, because they were always at home, and it would be a great i nducement to them if, when they came to drill, they could go home to their Iv:kills:0 every night. But tho Admiralty did not say that ; they said, " if the service permitted ;" but he (Mr. Henley) knew very well they would not say that—they would say the service would not permit it. They must also remember that the Queen's service held out no hope of promotion to a man before the mast. The number of warrant , fficers was extremely small ; whereas if they looked to the number of able seamen in the merchant service, and to the certificated mates and masters, they would see that the chance of pro motion to good men is not only large but certain. Therefore they could not expect that men would enter the Queen's ser vice unless they got good terms, and let those terms be made short, so that the men might know what they were about. Mr. LIDDELL said the naval volunteer corps system had not worked well, for there had been too much red tape con nected with it. He was of opinion that they ought to im pose as few restrictions upon long voyages as possible— indeed, in his opinion, every facility ought to be given to the young seaman in them. But what he chiefly rose to comment upon was that the most valuable feature in the whole project had not been carried out—the establishment of trainmg ships in our ports. Another matter for observation and regret was, that the merchant service and the Queen's service had been kept too distinct, and, in his opinion, it would be for the advantage of both if less difference existed between them. He hoped that Parliament, in dealing with this large subject, would net be led away by any notion of false economy—all were interested in this great question, whether men of war or men of peace. (Hear, hear.) Mr. W. S. LINDSAY could not give his support to the motion. There could be no doubt but the present system of manning the navy had failed, as he had foreseen. The merchant seamen did not enter into the service of the Queen, although the press had done all it could to write it up. An essential question for the house to consider was, whether, owing to recent changes and scientific improvements in the navy, it would not be possible to man the ships efficiently with fewer sailors and mere marines, and whether the vast improvements which had taken place in machinery would not diminish the necessity for thenumber of sailors which used formerly to be employed. He had suggested to the Admi ralty, for instance, that patent trusses should be employed ; but the answer he received was that they would twist off the mast heads, an objection which he had never heard made in the American service, where trusses were largely used. A sailor cost £44 a year, whilst a marine cost only £32 a year. Why, then, should not a marine, if he did the work as well, have the preference ? If the plan which he had proposed had been adopted the Governmont might have reduced the navy to a very considerable extent. The reason why the men would not enter the navy was simply because they had no confidence in it, and why was that ?—because there had been so many barriers between the merchant service and the navy. He had endeavoured to break them down by his propositions recorded in the blue book. He proposed to have boys in the school ships alike for the merchant service and the navy, so that in accordance with their training or good conduct they might be drafted off to the navy or owners of merchant vessels. He proposed that the merchant owners and the Government should nominate a certain number of boys to these schools. His desire was to open up Greenwich Hospital for the benefit of all seamen. He would ask the Government why, when they appealed to seamen of the merchant service they did not also appeal to the officers of that service, and give them the opportunity of distinguishing themselves in time of war? On the one hand, they had in the navy retired officers who cost the country £600,000 a year, and on the other, there was a scarcity of lieutenants even now, and during the Cri mean war there was a very great scarcity indeed. Sup pose they entered the 30,000 men asked for last year what could they do with them without officers to command them ? Who were the officers in the merchant service ? Why they were quite equal to the gentlemen of the navy in education and sobriety, and all those qualities which - were required to make them good seamen and efficient officers. (Hear, hear.) If the Government had adopted his scheme they would have obtained 30,000 men, and at a far less coat than they would do new. He objected to flogging in the navy, and he was therefore glad to see that some change was made in that respect. Then the articles of war were bad ; why not change them, and make them plain, to be understood by the men ? If they would but do so they might prevent their being a barrier to entering the service. In some respects the punishment was so severe that the cap tain could not enforce it, and on the other hand it prevented the men from entering the service. Lord C. PAGET said he did not rise for the purpose of opposing the motion of his gallant friend. Far from it, and he was exceedingly glad that his gallant friend had called the attention of the house to the question of manning the navy. All he could say was this, that the Government were as fast as they could carrying out the recommendations of the Royal Commissioners. (Hear.) He would endeavour to show what the Government were doing as regarded the pro posals of the commissioners. But he would first make one or two remarks upon what had been said by the right hon. gen tleman the member for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley) and the hon. member for Northumberland (Mr. Liddell). It was surprising that in all these matters there should be such a great difference of opinion. He would take the case of the volunteer force. His hon. friend said they tied them up too tightly, for they enrolled them for five years, and then if a war broke out, they insisted upon the men remaining another five years. Now all he could state was, that if there was not some guarantee of that sort, and if there should be a war towards the end of the term, the greater part of the men enrolled would say that they would not go to sea. His right hon. friend opposite said, why not enter the men for life ? So that it would seem that on the one hand they were asked to enter them for life, and on the other for only five years, and then let them go perfectly free. He would admit that this new measure was fraught with considerable diffi culty, and the observations which hon. gentlemen made were extremely valuable, because if they found the measure did not work well, they could tell the house so, and say that it required amendment. Some hon. gentlemen condemned the measure, but they should recollect that it had only been in operation for six weeks, and the Government had reason to believe from the accounts received that the men were be ginning to get over that extraordinary delusion under which they had laboured, viz., that they were to be entrapped into the navy and sent off to the China war. He had received communications from officers in the navy stating that what he had said in the House of Commons had had already a good effect. (Hear, hear.) He thought it very hard that the measure should be condemned at once before it had time to work, and before they could ascertain whether it would be successful or not. As regarded the remarks of his gal lant friend the member for Southwark, that the Govern ment had neglected to adopt the measures proposed by the commissioners, he would mention to the house that they had placed the Majestic at Liverpool as a coast guard ship, and the Dauntless at one of the other stations. As to the complaints made in reference to the pen sioners not being allowed the same rating as formerly at sea, the Admiralty had no knowledge of them. He thought he would find that it was a very rare case that a pensioner win came back to the service was not treated with every possible consideration, and that he was appointed to those duties which he had to perform before he left the service. Another complaint was this, that the men could not get leave to go on shore. but were kept prisoners in the neighbourhood of the ship. Sir C. NAPIER—At the ports. Lord C. PAGET continued. His gallant friend was wholly misinformed, for if the men wished to leave the ship and the port, they had only to ask for a pass to enable them to go where they pleased. It was true they did not allow these men to leave the ship unless they asked for a pass. Sir C. NAPIER—Whom are they to ask ? Lord C. PAGET—The captain of the ship. Sir C. NAPlER—Suppose he should change his mind? (Cries of " Order.") Lord C. PAGET—His gallant friend next-said, " Why not man the seaports with marines ;" but he should remem ber that, if these men did not go to sea, they would no longer be marines but landsmen. His right hon. friend opposite last year increased the navy by 2,000 marines, and the present Admiralty asked for an additional 1,000, so that they would gradually have 5,000 marines, the number recommended by the commissioners. In one year theyhad entered 3,000 out of the 5,000. (Hear, hear.) Was not that carrying out the views of the royal commissioners ? (Llear, hear.) The gallant admiral said why not enter the boys ? His answer was that the Admiralty had taken 2,000 boys on the recommendation of the commissioners. They would be glad to do more, but the expenses were so large that when they came to the training ships they found they ran away with such large sums of money that they were bound to see how one scheme answered before com mencing another. (Hear, hear.) A great many other points had been referred to, and one of them as to training seamen in gunnery practice. He could state that the Ad miralty gave an additional sixpence per day to seamen who could instruct others, and they would give id. or lid. per day to men who chose to qualify themselves and to un dergo an examination showing that they were well up in the duties relating to gunnery. (Hear, hear.) He could assure the gallant admiral and the house that the recom • mendations of the royal commissioners were under the con stant consideration of the Board of Admiralty, and if time were given most of those recommendations would be car ried out. As to employing the officers of the merchan t service, he would remark that if the men came into the navy they would then invite the officers to do so. (Hear.) Another arrangement was, that continuous service men would get their clothes. He hoped also some progress was being made towards paying the men more rapidly; in short, it was the constant endeavour of the Admiralty to ' act upon the recommen d a ti ons o f th e comm i ss i oners f or the improvement of the naval service. (Hear, hear.) the coasting coasTtAinYgLtrOaß saiddewa it s a had formerly nexcellentn been utast observed th y forthenavy at , but it had been so much interfered with of late years by purpose.b ro railways ug.ht. t o t h L a L t aoistnt London na l r d b ; n o o ti nh l ee o n rl, g a o 2i r loow b ,ao e os d o e pat tons ds ed noto f oeno moreaf l o s r tw t h h ear a ns t sea. A groat proportion of the se q vessels, moreover, ere imported wereby 600,000 tons, or about h a lf the quantit y, screw steamers, which not only carried amuch sm la a r l g le e r r cargo than sailing ships, but also r equ i re d a much num ber of man to take them. In fact, it was the belief of many sailors, of whom he was one, that we should see not only the coasting trade, but the whole saili ng trade of try destroyed. This was a serious matter with regard to providing able men for the navy. Sir J. ELPIIINSTONE said he had listened with g reat p l ea sure to the statement of the noble lord. H e would still beg to press upon his attention the necessity of carrying out the system of school ships, which was the basis of the whole reserve scheme. Let them not be deterred by the trifling expense which would be incurred by such an establishment. There were some other recommendations of the commis sioners about which he had heard nothing from the noble lord. As to the hulks, there was certainly one at Ports mouth, the Bellerophon, which had been much improved, but he (Sir J. Elphinstone) had visited some of these vessels, and he did not wonder at the complaints of the men, or that they should prefer the light and warmth which they met with at, the public-house to the life on board one of the hulks. With regard to the men, there were two classes of them— first, the continuous-service men, whom we were.to retain; secondly, there were the unattached men, who never meant to return. As to the first of these classes, he would pay the men two-thirds of what was due to them, and keep the re mainder in hand, allowing them to go and see their friends without reference to their accounts at all. As to flogging in the navy, he was convinced that it was perfectly impossible to do away with it. They must have the lash, if only to give the men themselves a sense of security. But the fact now was, that the Admiralty were so severe and capri cious with regard to the captains, that the captains them - selves in many cases would rather let a man off than flog him for fear of consequences to himself. (Hear.) He also wishe I to ask why the articles of war, which were per fectly obsolete in practice, were retained in their present shape ? (Ile ir, hear) He recommended that a commission should be appointed to cut down , the articles of war and bring them into accordance with the htirhane notions which inspired our penal code at the present day. (Hear, hear.) Admiral Sir M. SE Yikl OUR said ho was glad to hear that the noble lord had giveh them the assurance that there 1 w it a ,, s ya e l v eo ery as it was desire to carry out the recommendations of the misien.T e h vi a d t e c n iu t e t s b t a ie t n o N u va r s p o r n e on e present t a very p ressing charact er , arrangements et were ata ers i et n o s:,:E huip e c i ph ei , i r t. a H e thought, however, that it was a mis hat harshness towards the men was a the navy. system, frequent d 1, ,•ai ,- l e il s ti - il ea . ted them hitherto from enter ingmethod which was a matter of great anslintyF'L"ace, had been made to the that country,he Prevaileidsienr,egard to the compulsory of any political disturbancesi n im in ow the th ev at en i t t arising, •or in such a contin- THE Bi7N, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 17, 1860. t was, however, generally that i w th ith E o n u g t la a n c d o . m i u . boil: system it would be g a e g n. re c e y d a t s h a ere wa r impossible to supply men with the requ:_ml rapidity. With out these means it was quite clear that we could only have recourse to rewards and prizes as temptations to men to join the service. Thus the expenditure for the manning of our navy must necessarily be very large. Even the coast i v olunteer movement had not been in all respects success ful. lie quite agreed with honourable members who had spoken of the advantages which both the merchant service and the royal navy would derive from the :establishment of school ships. They would in all probability take the place of the old apprentice system. He should hail with pleasure any scheme that would unite the mercantile service with the navy, being satisfied that the naval service would be greatly the gainer. As a body, naval officers were unani mous in their desire to abolish corporal punishment, but it was ersential that the power of inflicting it should be re tained. He had known instances, when on service in China, where nothing could have been effectually substi tuted for instant corporal punishment. Mr. BENTINCK said it was impossible to overrate the importance of this question. The house was about midway 1 in the process of voting 13 millions for naval purposes ; and in the event, which he would not at all anticipate, of an unfortunate commencement of a naval war, tke whole of that 13 millions, unless we had a reserve, would be wasted. They were told that two of the block-ships had been re moved, why not remove the whole of them ? (Hear, hear.) He believed that the house would always vote any amount that was shown to be necessary for naval purposes. He denied that the house was to blame for the unwise economy of former years ; the blame was with those who occupied the Treasury bench at the time, in not asking for what was necessary. He could recall no instance of any such proposal being refused by the house. The sys tem of our naval administration was thoroughly rotten. At the head of the Admiralty it was customary to place some distinguished public man, in no way conversant with the details and business of the office, and the men that were so conversant had not a sufficient degree of responsibility to induce them to force their opinions upon their chief. It was not often that they had as secretary to the board so able and distinguished a man as the noble and gallant lord op posite. That was a great improvement, and a step in the right direction. Before long he hoped to see a thorough reconstruction of the board. Till that was done it would be impossible to have proper economy in the dockyards. He thought that the system of examination might be carried too far in respect to the navy. Plenty of boys might be found who could read and write, but they wanted them to do other things on board ship. They had had instances in that house of the most brilliant oratorical powers, the pos sessors of which would not have been able to pass a very searching examination. (A laugh.) Admiral WALCOTT said that formerly the navy was much indebted to the coasting trade for a supply of men, and they were some of the best. That supply was now cut off, but he was under no alarm. He was confident that, under any adverse circumstances whatever, the navy of England would be found equal to the emergency. The total number of British seamen in the merchant service, exclusive of ap prentices, boys, firemen, stokers, and others, was 162,012, and of foreign seamen 14,375, giving a total of 176,337, ex clusive of the 20,000 masters. Could those men be encou raged to enter into the service in the way proposed very great good would result. It was necessary for the effective man ning of our navy that from 2,000 to 4,000 boys should be enlisted annually at the mercantile ports. (Hear, hear.) Great care would be required in the selection of officers to train those boys. One main reason why the navy did not attract men from the mercantile service was that they had no chance of promotion. The whole of the 20,000 masters, and most of the 66,000 able seamen, were looking to com mand ships. Another thing was, they did not like to be five years on one station. He hoped that more frequent changes would be made. From 1790 to 1815, when we had had 1,000 men-of-war, it was necessary to have a commensurate num ber of officers ; and there were numbers of them living now, who ought to have been destd4o make way for younger men ; but that could not be helped. (A laugh.) Another mistake had been that of appointing the same officers to ships after ships, while other men were kept on shore, and never em ployed at all. (Hear.) The result was that old officers got broken-hearted, after waiting 25 years, and seeing young men put overtheir heads. Let the service be satisfied that the only road to employment and promotion was by zeal, promptitude, and perseverance in their profession, and by acquiring a practical knowledge of it. If they would only do that, they might rely on it the navy would never be want ing men ; it would be an honour to the country and the Go vernment that proposed such a regulation. Patronage had been the bane of the navy ever since he knew the profession. Men who had thrown all their energies into the profession, after being 20 years in it, had had to retire on their half-pay. He would not have the recruiting confined to the 2,000 boys. Let the ships go to every mercantile port, with officers such as ho had mentioned, and we should soon have one of the finest and most effective navies in the world. He deprecated these continual complaints night after night, sending it out to the world that we had no efficient navy. Ho declare I that wo had an efficient navy at the present moment; and let net the country feel any apprehension about it. They might de pend upon it the British navy would do all that it ever had done, and that no vessel would ever leave port which would nit bring additional lustre to our flag. (Hear.) Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR said that though the Govern ment offered no opposition t o this motion, his inference from all the remarks of the noble lord was that they would do no thing towards carrying it into effect in the present session. The chief recommendation made by the commission was that relating to the establishment of school ships—thus providing a regular source and supplp for the future recruiting of the navy. Captain Ingledew and Captain Vincent had given the clearest testimony as to the importance of that recom - mendation, stating that the merchant service would hail the re-establishment of these training ships with delight, believing that tho class of apprentices would thereby be im proved. Only last night he had been present at a meeting at Southampton, called for the purpose of memorialising the Government to place one of these training school-ships in Southampton Water. The expression in favour of the proposal was perfectly unanimous, and they stated that they would join heartily with the Government in the ex pense. Captain Sullivan's estimate of the cost of one of these ships for 200 lads was £4,000, including £lOO for a chaplain. Surely it was a miserable and paltry economy if the Government did not Caine manfully forward and ask the house to vote £48,000 for twelve of these ships. The plan which Captain Sullivan proposed was to take boys of 12 or 13 yeas of ago for a year, then to apprentice them to the merchant service; at the end of their five years to let them serve for two years in a vessel of the royal navy, and then to bind themselves to enter at any time into the Royal Navy Volunteers, so as to be called on at any time when war menaced. He further recommended that the patronage of the Government in the customs and the excise should be extended to seamen. . Sir C. NAPIER replied. He could assure the noble lord that he had made no mistake about the order to take up men as stragglers, and he could further assure him that it was a cause of great dissatisfaction. The sooner such a nefarious order was withdrawn the better. He believed the hon. mem ber for Portsmouth was mistaken with regard to the hulks, and that these ships were done away with. If the Govern ment patronage was extended usefully amongst seamen, it would very much contribute to bring men into the navy and to make it popular. If the noble lord did not promise him that he would remove the block ships and substitute efficient ships for them, he should divide the house on his motion. He awaited the noble lord's answer. (Laughter.) The question was then put and carried without a division Sir C. NAPIER—The "ayes" have it. (Laughter.) The SPE AKE R—T hehouse was unanimous. (Laughter.) FLOGGING IN THE ARMY AND NAVY. Mr. WILLIAMS, in rising to call the attention of the house to flogging, in the army and navy, said the system was most injurious to those services because it prevented re spectable men from joining them. Upon their soldiers and sailors the country depended for protection, for fame, and for renown ; and yet they were treated worse than any class of persons in society—worse even than felons. Those mis creants only who threatened the life of the Queen were sub jected to the lash, and it was on the same footing with that class of persons that they put their soldiers and sailors (Hear, hear.) It reflected disgrace and discredit on the country that such a system should be allowed to exist. Some years ago the hon. and gallant member for Westmin ster gave evidence against the system as being totally use less, and because it prevented respectable men from enter iteg the service. Offi cers were i n fl uence d i n f avour o f thi s mode of punishment, as the recorder and judges were when a more severe criminal code existed. But the apprehensions which they expressed at any relaxation of the criminal cede were found by experience to be vain. So he believed it would be if the punishment of flogging was abolished in the army and navy. In former times the maximum num br of lashes was 1,000. That was reduced to 300 ; and it was afterwards reduced by the Duke of Wellington, much to his credit, to 59. He would ask any officer if dis cipline was found to be destroyed in consequence of that relaxation ? He should not disgust the house by going into the details of these floggings, but there was one case which was brought so prominently before the eye of the public that he would be pardoned for referring to it. He alluded to the case which occurred not long since in Wool wich, where a man who was suffering from boils on his back, was flogged, and put in such torture that officers and men swooned away at the sickening spectacle, whilst others stopped their ears and shut their eyes lest they, too, should become unnerved. They called themselves Christians, but was not such an exhibition quite contrary to the very spitit of Christianity ? Was it not unexampled and contrary to every human feeling to flog a poor creature with his back covered with boils ? (Hear, hear.) Some years ago Mr. Wakley stated in that house that the effect of flogging on mon of a nervous temperament was to produce fatal diseases most commonly consumption. They were obliged to abolish flogging for the sepoys, and yet they treated in this cruel and inhuman manner men who were equal to a dozen sepoys. The Duke of Cambridge, much to his honour and credit, made a further attempt to put down the system, but he wished to see it abolished altogether. In 1847, there were o nly 42 men flogged in the army, the number of lashes they received 2,200. In 1852, 45 men were flogged, receiv ing 2,150 lashes. In 1848, 218 men were flogged, receivine -9,338 lashes. Thus it appeared that the system was on the increase in the army. He now turned to the navy. The punishment in the army was mercy itself compared with tilt in the navy. The cat was heavier in the navy; it was wielded in a different manner [the hon. gentleman showed how] ; and it Was admitted that 50 lashes in the navy were equivalent to 150 in the army. Tho maximum punishment was the flogging round the fleet, from which he believed a man rarely recovered; and itewas a common saying that it would be far less cruel to string up the criminal at the yard arm at once. He (Mr. Williams) was sorry to say that fl , gging hael also of late increased in the navy. In 1852 the number of men punished was 578, and they received 17,570 lashes ; whereas, in 1858, 997 men received 32,4'10 leshes. He believed that the comparative publicity of the punish ments inflicted on soldiers operated as a great check upon the revival of the practice ; and it was a fact that though there were more soldiers than sailors, the former received in 1858 no fewer than 23,000 lashes less than the latter. Ho was glad to see that the Admiralty had followed the excellent example which had been set them by the Duke of Cambridge. The offence for which men were oftenest flogged on board her Majesty's ships was, singularly enough, drunkenness; but it surely required nothing but the mos t ordinary com mon sense to put a stop to that. It would only be necessary to allow any man who did not want to drink his grog the full value of it, and to punish the selling of it to a comrale by two or three months deprivation of grog altogether. By a simple remedy as that they would almost entirely p su n c t h an end to drunkenness, and with it more than half t.ke punishment of flogging. (Hear, hear.) A dreadful case had occurred within the last few months. A sailor had been a r i o i found guilty by a court - m artial of insubordination approach ing to mutiny, his offence havin g been p uttin g his hea d out the ffe y boa a t nd boatswain. of the poithOle of the ship t o which he belon g ed, callin g out ll shot about." He h what they ad als o d d i do done e n s o b rn oa e r t d hi n t the Liffey, ) Li Such was his crime, and for it he was ordered to receive 50 lashes. Now, if be had been sober when he had made us e of the words imputed to him the' e c ould be no doubt that he would have deserved that to which he was sentenced; but it was clear that the poor creature was drunk at the time. The scene which occurred at the punishment was described in a local paper of very moderate polities, the Plymouth Journal, which stated that the boatswain, wh o had been insulted by the culprit, was seen preparing to give him the first dolen lashes, the excitement of the dockyard labourers was intense; and the affair ended in a fight between them snd the authorities of the Caesar, to which the man belonged. It had been stated that the first American frigate which took a prize from us in the late war was manned almost en tirely by English deserters ; and that these men all the time loved their country as much as ever, but that they had been so disgusted by the barbarities of the service that there were no lengths to which they were not prepared to go in order to show their hatred of the system. The principal offences for which sailors could be flogged were drunkenness, absence without leave, insubordination, dirtiness, neglect of duty, telling , untruths, theft, smoking at a man's post, fight ing, &c. Was it right that a brave fellow should have his back flayed for such offences as some of those? Why, it was one of the greatest qualities a seaman could possess to be always ready for a fight. (Hear, hear.) Was it to be en dured that men to whom the country owed so much of its greatness should be subjected to such treatment because a number of old gentlemen—with the bestintentions no doubt —could not find room far any ideas but such as were in vogue 50 years ago, when their ships were manned by means of the press-gang ? (Hear, hear.) For several years past he had moved for a series of rerurns relating to this subject, and he now proposed to add to them a new feature, which was the name of the captain of each ship in which men were flogged. (Hear, hear.) He would tell the house why he did this. For two years the noble and gallant officer (Lord C. Paget) had commanded in the Princess Royal. N otwith standing the high state of discipline and efficiency to which he brought the crew, he had never flogged a man (Loud cheers.) Well, he was succeeded by a man who floozed 53, on whom he inflicted no fewer than 2,100 lashes. Having stated that fact in the house, he (Mr. Williams) received a letter from a gallant admiral assuring him that he must have made some mistake, for no man had a higher character for humanity than Capt. Bailey, who was then commanding the ship. Accordingly he (Mr. Williams) made further in quiries, smiled length hd ascertained that the captain who had flogged 53 men was one who came between the noble lord and Capt. Bailey. (Hear.) To prevent mistakes of that kind, which might be very prejudicial to the characters of meritorious officers, he should propose the addition he had named. (Hear, hear.) This year more than 1500,000 had been expended in bounties, and though the noble lord said that the Government had obtained 10,000 men, it did not appear that more than. 1,500 of them were able sea men. Let them only abolish flogging and he had no doubt that they would get without difficulty as many of the sort they wanted as they pleased. cllear, hear.) The hon gentle man concluded by moving for the following return :—Re turn of the number of men flogged in the army and militia in the year 1859, specifying the offence, the regiments, the place of station, the time, the sentence, and the number of lashes inflicted on each man (in continuation of parliamen tary paper, No. 519, of session 1858) ; also, return of the number of persons flogged in the navy in the year 1859, spe cifying the name of the ships and of the commanding offi cers, the offence, the sentence, and the number of lashes inflicted on each person, stating whether by order of court martial or the commanding officer (in continuation of Par liamentary paper, No. 41,_ of session 1859). Mr. BRISTO WE, in seconding the motion, remarked on the anomaly which existed between our civil and our military jurisprudence. The ordinary tribunals of the country inflicted the same penalty for the same offence, whoever the culprit might be ; but in the army and navy there was one law for officers and another for men. (Hear.) If at a time like the present, when we were endeavouring to make the army ant navy efficient, and if possible to popularise them—if at such a time the returns quoted by his hon. friend be true, he asked was that the means to obtain the increased number of men asked for for both services ? Another paradox in the system was this—What was there in the character of an Englishman so degraded that this punishment must be inflicted upon him, while there was no such thing as flogging in the French army ? (Hear, hear.) He remembered last year asking a French officer if there was any flogging in the French army, and that offi cer's reply was, "Neither the French men nor the French soldiers are brutes." (Hear.) He did say that the time was come when this punishment, degrading . alike to the person who ordered it, the person who administered it, and the person who received it, should be entirely don. away with. .The question having been put, - Col. NORTH said he should like to ask the hon. mem• ber for Lambeth whether he had taken the trouble to aster• tain if the statements he had made to the house were cor• reet ? Mr. W I LLI A M S—Yes. Col. NORTH continued—Because he recollected that in 1855 and 1858 the hon. member made a most serious charge against the officers of the 26th Regiment, but made that charge in such a manner that he (Col. North) had no hesi tation in contradicting him, and the following day he had a latter from the commanding officer of the regiment, stating that there was not one word of truth in the charge. What - nada him (Col. North) rise on that occasion was that the hon. member for Lambeth had introduced the name of Col. Talbot, of the Artillery. He could tell the hon. member that it was not in the power of Col. Talbot to remit the pun ishment inflicted on that occasion by one single lash. Un der these circumstances it was perfectly intolerable that a member should get up in that house, and thus brand an officer of the army, without ascertaining whether his charges were true or false. The only man who had the power to remit one lash of the'pimishment awarded was the surgeon of the regiment. The hon. member had also made several other statements. All that he (Col. North) could say was that a more painful duty could not devolve upon any officer than that of being obliged to superintend the punishment of the lash. With regard to flogging on board ship, the hon. member said that in such cases all the civilians on board were ordered off the quarter-deck; but did he sup pose that any civilian would be pleased to stand by and witness such a punishment ? He could tell the hon. member on the part of the army that if he or any other civilian would introduce any other punishment which would be safer, and restore the soldier in the shortest time to duty, ho-would be hailed as a benefactor to the whole army. (Hear.) The hon. member who seconded the motion stated that there was no flogging in the French army. Bid he in quire how crime was punished in the French army ? If he had he would find that for what we flog the French shoot. (Hear.) When he was in Paris last autumn he went one day to Versailles, and he there found that that day two men had been shot for knocking down a non •commissioned offi cer. In the Prussian army, also, the punishment was very severe, a common punishment being to put a man in a room so small that he could not stand upright, where he was left all day and only taken out at night. Alderman SALOMONS, while admitting that every officer who was obliged to inflict the punishment of flogging must feel that he was performing a very disagreeable duty, felt bound to corroborate the statements of his hon. friend the member for Lambeth as to the painful sensation that was created by the floggings at Woolwich. Lord C. PAGET said he had no objection to the returns moved for by the hon. member for Lambeth provided he left out the names of officers who he said had inflicted cor poral punishment. (Hear, hear.) That punishment was one of the most painful duties which any officer could be called upon to witness, but he felt bound to say it could not be at present suddenly and wholly done away with. The hon. member had quoted him as an officer who did not flog but he could assure him that he was not the man to shrink from flogging if he thought it necessary. The hon member had also stated that the Admiralty could not get the number of seamen which they wanted. He (Lord C. Paget) would correct him. Last year upwards of 10,000 men entered, of whom above 4,000 were able-bodied sea men. (Hear, hear.) He could state, moreover, that out of the whole fleet there was only 3 per cent. of desertions. (Hear, hear.) He told the hon. member last year that the Articles of War as they now stood were not in accordance ith the spirit of the present age. The Government had it in view to bring in a bill this year that would make those arti cles more in accordance with the present age. (hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK thought the hon. and gallant member (Colonel North) spoke of the hon. member for Lambeth in a rather angry mood because he brought forward the mo tion. Now, it seemed to him (Mr. Roebuck) a wise thing and a good thing to bring this motion forward, because it was not done in a spirit of animosity to the officers of the army or navy, they acted under compulsion, and this mo tion only asked for inquiry. (Hear, hear.) He remembered the time when a man was good for nothing else they hanged him, and no class of the community was so eager for hanging as the judges. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) It ap peared to him that these learned persons were utterly mis taken, and that the authorities of the army were not in fallible. All they asked for was an inquiry whether certainty of punishment would not answer all the effect of this violent and degrading punishment. This punishment had not only an eff2ct on the victim, but on society around, and he asked if it was not the duty of persons in authority seriously to inquire whether they could not do away with the punish ment ? The noble lord said he was about to bring in a reform of the code of the navy, and he gave them to hope that in that reformed code there would be a great diminution of this punishment. He was sorry to see the noble lord now shake his head, and to dissipate that anticipation, but be would tell him that his new code would do no good unless this dreadful punishment was diminished, because he was sure that no man after being flogged was an equal man to what ke was before. (Hoar.) He could not believe that a soldier or sailor would fight for honour or his country with the same spirit after he had been flogged as he would before. They were told that it was absolutely necessary to flog boys at school, and there were people who were so obtuse as to believe that their children were all the better for being flogged. Now he was quite sure that flogging at schools was most injuri ous, and if they were to do away with it there it would not continue long in the army and navy. The noble lord said it had been his good fortune to command ships in which he had officers and men who rendered it unnecessary to inflict this punishment. Yes, it was the officer's manner of guid ing his men that determined this. Wherever they found a regiment or a ship in which there was much flogging, de pend upon it the officer was not fit for his command. Tho man who inflioted that punishment showed his incapacity to govern. Mr. C. BUXTON said he had thought of bringing for ward a substantive motion, but he thought it inconvenient to have two debates on the subject, and as he understood that his hon. friend intended to take a division ho hoped that that expression of the opinion of the house on the subject would be sufficient. These was scarcely a reform that had been effected in the army or navy that had not been effected against the opinion of the military and naval authorities. To whom did they owe the reduction of lashes from 1,000 to 50? To whom did they owe the abolition of the tight dress, and, as they hoped, the abolition of the tight stock ? Not to the military authorities, but to public opinion. The new orders on the subject of flogging were very far indeed from abolishing that punishment. He found by these:new orders that in the army there were still no fewerthan ten offences, chiefly infractions of discipline, on the first commission of which a man was to be degraded into the second class, and once in that class he might be flogged for the commission of any ono of these offences. As to the navy, be found that every man, whether he belonged to the firse,or second class, was still liable to be flogged ; the main difference was that if ho belonged to the first class he must be tried by court martial, whereas if lie belonged to the second he was liable to be flogged at the pleasure of the captain. It seemed to him astonishing that one of our countrymen should be liable to this terrible punishment at the will of a naval captain. This punishment made the army and navy an unpopular service among the working classes of this country. They had a commission last autumn to inquire how it was they could not get men for the navy, and the noble lord who had juse spoken told them the other night of the difficulty of getting men to join the naval reserve, and said the men were afraid kidnapped into the navy. How was it ? No private skipper had any difficulty in finding men, nor had an y private employer of labour, not even a scavenger or a s weep, any difficulty in getting workmen; but there evil one service that men would not go into, and that was the Queen's service, because of this degrading punishment ; and they found it almost impossible to fill up the ranks, and had had to spend half a million within the last few months to induce men to join. The hon. member thou read a harrow ing description of the suffering caused by flogging, written by Alexander So nerville, who was sentenced to re ceive 200 lashes. He became black in the face and water was administered to him, and then the flogging recom menced, and was continued until he wascovered with blood and he writhed with agony, and it appeared to him as if the time when he had lived without this pain had passed long away. When 100 lashes had been inflicted he was taken dowii, being unable to bear more. The hon. member proceeded to say that the punishment was . much aggravated when it was inflated in cold weather, and he related an instance of its being inflicted on a man when the day was so cold that the mere stripping and exposing him to the cold was of itself a severe punishment. At the first lash the blood spurted out some yards. That man after wards shot himself. His own feeling was that such a punish ment as that was a brutal punishment. (Hear, hear.) To strip a man half naked, and tie him up by the arms and legs and flog him until the blood streamed down, was a punishment so degrading and cruel that nothing could justify it but strong necessity ; and it ought to be abolished unless it could be proved that abolishing it would cause a relaxation of discipline ; and the onus probandi ought to be on those who were in favour of the punishment. But there was nothing he had heard to-night that proved that its abolition would have such a result. When they looked to the continent of Europe, what army was it that they should at once look to as having the highest discipline ? The French army ; and yet there was no flogging in that army. The Prussian army had been referred to. On one occasion the Duke of Wellington was asked which European army he would prefer commanding, and he said the Prussian army, because it was most easily managed. But there was no flogging in the Prussian army. The German Legion raised for the Crimea was remarkable for its discipline, and there was no flogging in it. But in the armies of Russia and Austria the use of the lash was incessant, and in those armies it was most difficult to maintain discipline. The lash had of late years, it could not be denied, been more and more disused in the army, yet the character of the army was never higher than at present. There was, indeed, an ex ception in late days--plenty of flogging on board the Prin cess Royal, but it ended in mutiny. He was glad to say, for the sake of humanity and civilisation, that this brutal mode of punishment was getting into disuse, and that in 67 regiments and 43 ships containing 6,000 men, there had not been a single case of flogging. (Hear, hoar.) He did not see how any hon, gentleman who advocated the flogging system could get over this striking and authentically as certained fact. The principle was now clearly established, that it was not by any violence of punishment they could achieve real discipline in the services, but in that sort of punishment which harmonised with public opinion and public feeling. That mode of treatment was best which treated the offender not os a brute but as a man, and which made allowance for that degree of infirmity which belonged to human weakness. (Hear.). It could not be denied but that of late years punishments had assumed a much milder form, but they were not on that account the less effectual. When once a man was flogged he felt that he was de graded ; and those who inquired into these matters knew that a man, by such a mode of punishment, in most cases lost his self-respect, and was, to use the phrase of a soldier whose letter the hon, gentleman quoted, " done for," his character being lookedupon thereafter as hopeless. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman also quoted a communication from a soldier experienced in his profession, who declared that he had never known but oue instance in which a man who had been flogged recovered his self-respect. Besides, it was plain that the punishment, cruel and ignominious as it was, repelled men from the Queen's service, and upon the whole he thought that the authorities must by this time bo able to see that a milder form of punishment would be quite as effectual, without entailing any of the degrada tion or loss of self-respect with which the present system was almost invariably accompanied. Mr. S. HERBERT could not say they were proceeding in a very philosophical manner with this discussion, and was of opinion they were confounding different kinds of punishment. In England more than in any continental state the army was severed from social ties by its being so much on foreign service, and, moreover, in this country it should be borne in mind there was a great jealousy of mili tary authority. (Hear.) In Prussia and Austria the case was different, but in England it was plain the military could not be permitted to override the civil power. Another re markable difference between the army of England and that of its nearest neighbour was the absence of conscription. In England they took the men as they chose to enlist—wild and untutored—but having got them thus promiscuously together, it was necessary to exercise more stringent rules than over civilians. He (Mr. Herbert) was no advocate for flogging. (Cheers.) He had never been an advocate for corporeal punishment unless where it was absolutely neces sary. He bad not been favourable to its use as it had been carried on (Hear, hear.) He was opposed to its revival under the brutal ferocity with which in days gone by it had been exercised—(hear, hear)—and he was glad to see that public opinion had outlived the belief in the necessity of this cruel punishment. It had been said that soldiers wore treated much worse than civilians. He had applied to the Home Secretary for returns on the subject. It was not fact, as had been argued, that flogging was quite an excep tional, unknown, and intolerable punishment inflicted upon soldiers alone, for it was inflicted upon civilians also. It had even been proposed in that house not long ago to apply it to men for beating their wives; but there were many felonies which, as the law at present stood, were punishable by whipping. It might be said that those laws were not now practically put in force, but what was the actual amount of corporeal punishment inflicted on civilians ? In England and Wales the number of males above 20 years of age sen tenced by courts of assize or sessions to be whipped in 1858 was 83. The number sentenced to be whipped upon sum mary conviction by justices in that year was 502. Of these 472 were under the Juvenile Offenders' Act, but the residue was not so ; they were persons convicted of aggravated assaults, wilful damage, and other offences. Now, he did not say it was right that the punishment of whipping should thus be inflicted for such offences in civil life, but the fact was so. He had said that the army, raised by volun tary enlistment, as he had described, was composed of peculiar elements, which made it necessary to provide a punishment of a more rapid and stringent character. It should be remembered that as these men had a deadly weapon put in their hands their turbulence was far more dangerous than that of civilians. He had received a letter from the head police magistrate of an important town which he would not name, some passages of which might be read to show the house what that gentleman's observa tions and opinions were about the habits of the kind of men who were drawn by enlistment into our army, and the salu tary effect of discipline upon them. The writer of that letter remarked :—" There can be no doubt the army had dcno much for society as a reformatory institution. I am, I believe, in one of the principal recruiting districts here, and although we constantly see loose, idle, drunken, and dishonest characters coming before us for military attesta tion, we scarcely ever find them, after a period of service, lapsing into their former habits. The county and city re• ginients of militia, on their first embodiment, almost emptied the town of the description of persons to which I allude. On their return after the peace, I saw scarcely one of them who had not been greatly reformed, and there are many of them now pursuing a steady and industrious career? , These were eeflections which had often occurred to himself (Mr. S. Herbert) in looking at the raw material of which the army was composed, and then looking at the effect which that discipline, of which corporeal punishment was a very small portion, produced upon them. For his own part, he believed it was possible to reform boys and children, but he did not believe in the reformation of adult criminals or con victs to any extent, for ho had seen, in his own walk of life, several men of bad character and disposition, and he did not recollect that he had ever seen one of them reformed. But it could not be denied that the system of army discipline did succeed in improving the conduct of men who were sub jected to it. (Hear, hear.) Now, the hon. gentleman last ' year alluded very properly to the increase of corporal punish ments which he had observed in these returns. lie (Mr. S. Herbert) must admit that there had been to hiS mind a much greater increase than there ought to be, but when the amount of punishments in 1847 was compared with that of 1858, it should be remembered that our army had been very nearly doubled since that period. He acknowledged, however, that the amount per cent. had increased to a very alarming ex tent, and what was the cause of it ? It would be found on looking back to those years in which the amount of corporeal punishment was greatest, that whenever we made a great effort to increase our army, and brought in a large number of recruits—men of that idle, dissipated class to which he had alluded—there was a great deal of insubordination and crime, and consequently a great deal of punishment. One effect of the increased bounty system last year was to increase the offence of desertion for re-enlistment, in consequence of which corporeal punishment had 1 - een, for the first time, applied to desertion, and had proved to be some check npon it. Ho did not attach much importance generally to the harrowing descriptions which were sometimes read. Alex ander Somvorillo, whom ho (Mr. Sidney Herbert) in after life had the pleasure of knowing, was punished when in the army, but was not degraded by that punishment, for, on the contrary, it put him in a position from which, by his great ' literary talent, he raised himself considerably in the social scale. He (Mr. Sidney Herbert) had always thought that case of Somerville's a very bad one, but he could assure those who read his account of it that it was a considerable exaggeration of the facts as they really took place ; and, in deed, ho was quite aware that writers for the press must paint vividly and colour very highly in describing such matters. In a recent case upon which much comment had been made, he at once thought the medical officer who said the man was fit for punishment was greatly to blame. The Commander• in-Chief was not in England at that time, but upon his return his attention was called to it, and th e Duke of Cambridge did all that man could d o i n the case ; he ordered an inquiry, satisffed himself that there had been misconduct, and then severely and publicly reprimanded those concerned. As a result, moreover, of the considera tion then given to this matter, the Commander-in-Chief issued the general order which had been adverted to. Ile (Mr. Sidney Herbert) would now invite the attention of the house to the terms of that order. He wished to see corporeal punishments reduced to a minimum; and as formerly the most brutal and degrading punishments were inflicted incivil life, until public opinion put them down, he hoped that the system of military punishment, at a certain interval, would follow the same course of improvement. (Hear, hear.) 13tit by the new general order, with regard to a number of offences which under the old system were visited with the lash, it had now been declared that a man should not be flogged for any one of them; and that was a great step. Moreover, the respectable, steady, awl well-conducted sol dier, of whom there were so many in our ranks, might not fuel, as he had a right to feel, that he had a perfect impunity from degrading punishment whatever he might do, except, of course, in such a case of instant m u ti n y as m ust be re preseed by any and every moans. By the system estab li,lied under this general order soldiers could not be flogged unless by previous misconduct of a very disgraceful kind they had subjected themselves to removal into the second class ; and when they were in the second class it did not follow that they were to be flogged, but only for such of . fences ite desertion, mutinous 'behaviour, aggravated in subordination with violence, drunkenness on the line of march, embezzling public money, theft, indecent assaults, end other acts showing vicious and unnatural propensities. Even the men who had fallen into the second class could, by uninterrupted good conduct for a twelvemonth, restore themselves to the first class, where they would, except in most extreme cases, be exempt from corporal punishment. Now, he (Mr. S. Herbert) said that this general order was a wise and humane one, the adoption of which did the Commander-in-Chief the greatest credit. It had been said that every improvement in the army came from civilians, and not front military men. That was not always true; for, in justice to a deceased friend, he must again declare that, so far from the Enfield rifle having been forced upon Lord Hardinge by public opinion, Lord Hardinge had directed his attention to it long before. And in this in stance, it was the Duke of Wellington who reduced corpo ral punishment to 50 lashes. (Hear, hoar.) Now, with rega.d to the motion, the hon. gentleman was welcome to have the papers ho asked for ; the War-office and Com mander-in-Chief ha I nothing to conceal in this matter. But he was aiiixious that the house and the public should not be I run away with by a mistaken idea about this punishment. Of course it was not a very humane one ; ho never heard of such a thing as a humane punishment; fur all punishments gave -scare pain either of body or of mind, and it was diffi cult to see which caused men to suffer most. All he could state was, that there would no objection to giving the re turns asked for, as the Commander-in-Chief, as much as any man, wished, though gradually, to lessen corporal punishment . and he had given a sincere earnest of his in tention in the now regulation. He hoped the house and die country would leave the question in his hands, as he or es well aVe to deal with it, without risk to or the shaking of the discipline of the army, or making the army less pro tectivo to the public. (Hear.) Mr. E. JAMES said the cause of humanity was greatly indebted to the hon. member for Lambeth for bringing for ward this motion. lie thought he was justified in saying that hardly an instance could be found in which, during the I last ten years, a judge had ordered an adult to be flogged. It might be ordered sometimes in the case of boys. He ob jected to this degrading punishment, and it was inflictedin the army for merely venial offences. It was well known that the system of flogging in the army caused desertion ; and he remembered the Hounslow case, where the soldier died, and out of six who were present four afterwards de serted. Instead, therefore, of being a specific against de sertion, it prevented enlistment and caused desertion. He should support the motion ; but he objected to the publica tion of the names of persons who discharged their duty in carrying out what was the fault of a system. (Hear.) Sir C. NAPIER said he could not as a naval officer emit to express his opinion on flogging in the navy. He was the first person who called the attention of the house to the hor ribly barbarous Articles of War. True he was reproved by a late First Lord of the Admiralty for stating that no man in his opinion should be punished without a court-martial, and he thought so still. He had been the first to put a stop to flogging round the fleet. (Hear, hear.) Although such was his opinion, yet he believed the system could not sud denly be departed from. What punishment could be found to take its place in cases of mutiny and insubordination ? The infliction of the punishment was as painful to the man who performed the duty as the criminal. (Laughter.) If it were stopped the discipline of the service could not be carried on. (Oh, oh.) If a man committed a crime on board a ship, the captain ought to have him tried by court-martial before any punishment were inflicted, and that would give satisfaction to the ships' companies. The captain should be the judge, and never be present at the execution of the sen tence, and when he sawand looked on at the punishment he must be considered a brute and a beast. He hoped theses • sion would;not be allowed to pass over without the Govern ment bringing forward some new law for the better regula tion of the navy, in which the crimes would be pointed out and the punishments to be inflicted properly stated. He begged to state that desertion was much less less frequent than it was, although it was reported to be on the increase. The Goveanment ought to try and put a stop to the leave breaking, which prevailed at all seaports. (Hear.) Captain L. VERNON was very loath to continue the debate, but he thought the house would excuse a few prac tical observations from a practical man on the subject under discussion. Those who belonged to the 'service ought to be very much obliged to the hon. member for Lambeth for bringing the question forward, because they were glad to have daylight let in from any quarter. He wished to im press upon the house the fact that those whabelonged to the service were not naturally cruel men ; their feelings were the same as other men. But those who went to sea and fol lowed the drum were not always the best conducted menin the world. But what were they controlled by? Discipline and the articles of war and the fear and dread of punishment. If the majority were against him ho would take their opinion in preference to his own. (A laugh.) Discipline was re quired for everything. He saw a soldier shot in the West Indies for doing that for which, if brought before a justice of the peace, he would only have been fined 10s. ' but the regi ment be belonged to had got nearly into a state of mutiny, and he had struck his adjutant. Sir Lionel Smith called the regiment together, and addressed them on that occasion. He said that it was a hard thing for an old man to send a young man so soon out of the world, but that though ho was an old man he was not an old woman, and that so long as hor Majesty entrusted him with the command of the regiment he must enforce discipline. Again, the Royal African corps, which was formed in a hurry, mutinied, in conse quence of the want of discipline, nearly all died, and half the officers were killed. They did not want flogging, or any other very severe punishment, but they wanted discip line, without which the army was not worth sixpence. Mr. WYLD said that if the degrading punishment of flogging were swept away, the sons of respectable persons would join the army and navy, instead of as at present holding aloof from those services. Mr2FREELANIi;WLQi;) Mr. Williams to leave out the names of individual officers from the return, stat ing that if he did so he would give him his vote. Mr. WILLIAMS replied, and deelined to accede to the request of Mr. Freeland, on the ground that without the names of the officers the return would bo worthless. The first part of the resolution relating to the army was then agreed to. The SPEAKER having put the second part to the house, Lord C. PAGET moved that the words " or the com manding officer" be left out. The house then divided, on the original motion, when the numbers were— Ayes Noes Majority -78 The motion as amended, by striking out the words " and of commanding officers," was then agreed to. CIVIL SERVICE APPOINTMENTS. Mr. HENNESSY moved for a select committee to in quire into the present mode of nominating and examining candidates for junior appointments in the civil service, with a view to ascertaining whether greater facility might not be afforded for the admission of properly qualified per sons. He believed the whole system of nomination for the civil service was in a most unsatisfactory state, and.that in some respects we were in a worse position than we were before the civil service examination was instituted. For his own part he had no doubt it would materially increase the efficiency of the civil service if it were thrown open to free competition. Mr. STEUART seconded the motion. Mr. P. O'BRIEN thought the question was one well de serving the attention of the house. He believed the manner in which the civil service examinations were conducted was generally deplored throughout the country. Mr. LAING said that ho did not think the time had yet arrived when an inquiry of this kind could be entered upon with any hopes of a satisfactory result. At the present mo ment tho only practical instance we had of the complete working of the system of competitive examination for the civil service was in the empire of China ; but ho must say he believed there were many arguments in favour of the system. In his opinion it was a subject of considerable apprehension whether the effect on the national character would be good if the youths educated in our public schools were able to look at an early period of life to snug places in the Excise and Customs, instead of being forced out into the world, where after, perhaps, passing through a rough ordeal, they might rise to stations much higher. This was an impor tant consideration, and he threw it out to show that we oughs to proceed cautiously in the way of experiment. He thought at the present moment we had not acquired that fund of experience which would enable us safely to decide upon the matter. The Civil Service Commission had just got to work, and in the course of another year they would be in full operation, and then we might have sufficient ex perience to enable us to proceed more safely. He hoped, therefore, the hon. member would be contented with this assurance on the part of the Government, and consent to postpone his motion. Sir S. NOItTHCOTE agreed with the Secretary of the Treasury in thinking it better the question should be post poned, and therefore he trusted the hon. member would not press his motion to a division. Mr. MAGUIRE hoped that his hon. friend would perse vere, since that the answer given now was precisely the same as that given in 1856 to a similar motion. Lord PALMERSTON said that the motion and the speeches by which it had been supported raised a new question. The object of the motion, as he understood it, was not to ascertain whether the examinations were pro perly conducted, but whether they were to adopt, as a general principle, that any one who thought proper to come and write down his name as candidate for a public office must be examined, instead of the present system, which made the head of the department responsible for the election of proper candidates. He (Lord Palmer ston) considered the present system to be the most proper one, whilst at the same time he reckoned the patronage it gave to the Government as perfectly valueless as a means of keeping them in office. If a Government did not stand well in public opinion, the privilege of appointing to a few petty clerkships would not long preserve it from falling to the ground. (H ear , h ear. ) H e t h oug h t i t not at allde sirable that all the young men of the country should turn their attention to obtaining appointments under Govern ment, and that such a system was calculated to lower the feeling of the rising generation. (Hear, hear.) He knew how it worked in some countries abroad, and he believed it was calculated to break down the spirit of our young men ; and if all the young men were to turn their attention to Government situations, it was obvious that great numbers of them must be disappointed. (Hear, hear.) A lesser in convenience would be that they would write down their names for departments for which they were net fitted, and therefore, under all the circumstances, he thought it better that a discretion in uominaticn should be left to the heads of public departments. India was no case in point, as the young men were all examined with one view, and were sent out in steamers to India to be subsequently allotted to different departments. Ho quite concurred with those who thought the system of competition advantageous to the public service. It had been objected that that class of questions was too difficult, but there was always this difference between a standard and a competitive examina tion, that the former gradually gravitated towards a minimum, whilst the latter as inevitably rose to a maxi mum in the information demanded. It had been objected that questions were put to these young men which required unnecessary attainments. That might be true, but with out them how were the commissioners to ascertain the com parative attainments of a number of young men ? What they wanted to ascertain was not merely the candidate's fitness for a new clerkship, but the general amount of his ability and acquired information.. It night be fitting to ap point a committee to inquire whether these examinations were conducted in the best manner. It was but due to these commissioners to say that they had performed most useful service to the public. They hild conducted their examina tions upon principles which were well calculated to secure the public good and efficient public servants. (Hear, hear.) He was sure it would afford nothing but satisfaction to them to submit to a committee at no distant time the course which they had pursued. and he was satisfied that the result of such an examination would be satisfactory to the public, and to that authority by whom they were established. (Hear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK said that the noble lord, lie thought, had somewhat mistaken the object of the hon. gentleman's motion. The question was not whether the present mode of appointing to the civil service was the best, butwhat was actually being done. (Hear, hoar.) He could not under stand the statement that a year hence the house would be better qualified than it was at present to form a judgment on the question. 'What would they gain by a year's experi • ence ? (Hear, hear.) What they wanted to know was what had actually taken place. Well, a committee of the house would really ascertain what had taken place. He thought the system was a bad one. For this had taken place—A.B., one of his constituents, he would say, would come to him and say, I have a son whom I want to introduce for conipe tition into the Home-office. Do you think you can get my son's name put down ? Ho (Mr. Roebuck) perhaps said I have no doubt I are so able. He went to the Home-office, and because he happened to be a member of Parliament he had what he asked. But that was not open competition. (Hear, hear.) Suppose that man had not been ono of his (Mr. tlitlooeubzuhc perhapsk' Roebuck's) on swtiittuh a largeentshad been a man of no infl u ence, family—if he had no person of infuence to apply to, he would have no more chance of having his son's name put down than he (Mr. Roebuck) had of get ting the seat of the Great Mogul. (Hear, and laughter.) It was said th a t b y this means they would attract the eaten tion of young men—that the best minds in the conemunity would be drawn to official stations; so that, according to this argument, the present was not a competitive system, and this he believed it to be. (Hear, hear.) 'lent by a com petitive system they had obtained first-rr e te men for the In dian service. Well, then, they should /Jaye competition for the home service. (Hear, hear.) It was further said that the subject was not ripe for discuss;on. But the object was not to inquire whether they were doing the best thing. What they wanted to know wire what was being done. They wanted to hare this auOioritatively stated, so that every one might know. But tto system as at present con ducted was an absolute shim , (Hear, hear.) Mr. CLAY said ho presumed that the hon. gentleman had moved for the committee reckoning on the probability that the committee should recommend that there should bo no medium between the present system and an absolutely open competition, But he thought such a system would be impossible. Candidates would have to produce, as they did at present, the certificates of schoolmasters, and so forth. But what these conditions should be would be precisely the objects of inquiry. The noble lord seemed to anticipate that great mischief would follow from the appointment of a com mittee, but in this fear he (Mr. Clay) did not participate. He should support the motion. Col. SYKES also supported the motion. Mr. COLLINS hoped the hon. member would divide. He had occasion to make application for one of his consti tuents to the right hon. gentleman the member for Wells. The right hon. gentleman told him that the nomination list was full, but that he would do what he could for him on his own private list. He made no further application, and of course the thing remained. It was the greatest injustice that ne one who had not parliamentary influence should have the slightest chance of nomination, which every free born Englishman ought to have as a right. Mr. RIDLEY said that if the ablest persons were to be admitted to the civil servce, they must be paid accordingly, and the expense of the civil list would thus be greatly in creased. (No, no.) The patronage ought to be taken out of the hands of members of Parliament. (Hear.) Mr. HENNESSY replied, Lord PALMERSTON said that, the object of the motion being such as was stated by the hon. and learned member for Sheffield, he bad no objection to the appointment of the committee. (Ironical cheers.) But it was to be understood that it was to be confined to an inquiry into the present sys tem of examination. (" No, no," " Nomination.") The house was cleared for a division, but on the question being put the " ayes" were declared to have it. The motion was therefore carried, and the result was received with the cheers of its supporters. OPENING OF PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS. Fir J. TRELA.WNY moved for a select committee to inquire whether it was in the power of Parliament to pro vide, or of this house to recommend, further facilities for promoting the healthful recreation and improvement of the people by placing institutions supported by general taxa tion within reach of the largest section of the taxpayers on week days, when by the ordinary custom of trade such per sons wei a free from toil. The motion was agreed to. LIBERTY OF RELIGIOUS WORSHIP. Mr. L. KING obtained leave to bring in a bill for the further securing of liberty of religious worship. The object of his measure was to allow any number of persons to use the liturgy of the Church of England in private houses with a license from the bishop or the minister of the parish. The hon. gentleman intimated that if encouraged by the house he would, in committee, insert still more general lan guage, so as to allow any person to make use of the liturgy anywhere. TREATIES OF GUARANTEE. Mr. KINGLAKE moved an address praying that, in completion of the papers called " Treaties of Guarantee," there maybe laid before this house extracts of the treaties by which her Majesty is engaged to maintain in forse any stipulations concerning the frontiers of France. The gentle men who had drawn up the previous return had omitted to insert those treaties by which England bound herself that certain states should be kept separate from other states. He thought that the return for which he had moved would tend to remove acrimony from the discussions between this country and France as to the annexation of Savoy, because it would show the Emperor that this country was not acting upon any whimsical idea, but in conformity with solemn treaties. It would be right for him to give the house an idea of the papers which it would be necessary to produce. The definitive treaty between France and each of the other allied Powers, signed. at Paris in 1815 ; the treaty of alliance and friendship between England and Austria, and a similar treaty between England and Russia and England and Prussia. The motion, which was seconded by Mr. KINNAIRD, was agreed to. The London Corporation Reform Bill was postponed till Monday. The Oxford University Bill was read a second time. The Marriages (England and Ireland) Bill was read a second time. The report on ways and means was brought up and agreed to. 'The house then adjourned at 10 minutes to 1 o'clock. COUNTRY MARKRTS. BIRAIINGIIAM-FEB. 16. At to-day's market there was a large quantity of wheat offering; the-trade closed dull, but we make an alteration in our quotations of is per qr advance. Fine barley sold for 6d per qr. m ore mone y. O a t s were Gd hi g h er . Beans at former rates, and peas is dearer. MANCHESTER—Fma. 16. The trade has ruled more active since this day se'nnight, and the tendexcy of prices has been generally in favour of sellers. This morning the market was well attended, but the weather having become damp, caused the trade to rule quiet. Wheat only in limited demand, and may be quoted is dearer. Flour a slow inquiry, but it generally held for 6d per sack more money. Oats rather dearer, and oatmeal unchanged. Egyptian beans and Indian corn advanced la per qr. BRISTOL—Fus. 16. At the market this morning the attendance ♦sus fair, and there was a good supply of wheat. Buyers operated readily, and is advance was obtained on former prices. Foreign rather higher. Malting barley was firm; grinding qualities scarce and 6d over former quotations. Oats were in better demand, and obtained a slight advance upon late prices. Beans were held for mere money. LOUTH-FIB. 16. There was a fair business done in wheat to-day, lad prices were at about last week's quotations, Tim., wheat, rat and mixed; old and now, 40s to 44s per qr. ; whit*, 495. Oats, 18s to 245; beans, 39s to 445; barley, 29s to 88s. EDINBURGH GRAIN--F's. 18. The supply of wheat was large. Wheat on the top 4s Od up average is 2d up. Barley on tho top is 9d up average is 7d up. Oats on tho top 17s 6d up. average Os 24 lip. Beans on the top is 9d up average is 4d up. Averages per Imperial quarter. Wheat............ £2 6 0 7-12 the Barley llB 8 1-12ths Oats -12ths Beans Total Supply and Sales. Wheat .1416 qrs Sold 1817 qrs 8ar1ey........1029 qrs Sold 862 qrs Oats .2697 qrs Sold 1989 qrs Beans 319 qrs Sold 224 sirs GLASGOW-FEB. li. A tolerable attendance to-day, and the s des effected in wheat were at Gd per 2401 b advance upon late rates. Flour and oatmeal id to is up, and barley, oats, beans, peas, and Indian corn 6d per boll higher. CORK—no. 16. The following were the quotations this morning :—Rel wheat, 25s Od to 251 6 1 ; white, 25s ed to 268 0d; barley Ns Od to 19s Od ; oats, 12s Od to 14s Od. DERBY SMITHFIELD—FED. 14. There was a good supply of fat beasts to-day, witk a fair attendance of buy ers ; th e b est qual i ty in demand, and a clearance was effected. Sheep were in very poi supply, and well sold. Fat pigs in large supply. Calves plentiful. Beef Bid to 7d Mutton .. Lamb Od to Od Hides, 31d to sid ; Veal . 7id to Si Pork Rough fat, Sa 6d per stoat. alf skins, 41 to 6id. FOREIGN MAIL PACKET LIST. In the following table E signifies that letters are despatdied by erening mails fret* London, and M by userning Mall. -. Nand — DESTINATIONS. Despatch Port of Mail of Mails. Despatch. due. Lustralia and Mauritius, via Southampton Mar. 12, E Southall'''. Mar. 11 Ditto, via Marseilles Bahamas and Havana via New York Feb. 17, Liverpool.. Mar. 15 Canada, &e. (by Canadn. pckt ) Feb. ---. Liverpool.. Feb. 15 Cape of Good Mope, Ascen sion, and St. Helena Mar. 5, E Devouport March 3 China, Penang, and Singa pore, via Southampton Feb. 20, M Southamp. Feb. 18 Ditto, via Marseilles Feb. 26 overdue Gibraltar, via Southantpton .. Feb. 20, • Southway. Feb. 18 Honduras and Blewflolds .... Feb. 17, , , Southamp. Feb. 18 India (Calcutta) and Ceylon, via Southampton .. Feb. 20, . Swabs/lip. Feb. 11 Ditto, via Marseilles India (Bombay), via South ampton Ditto, via Marseill es Lisbon, Brazils,Buenos Ayres, and F. Islands ..... Mar. 9, M :outharap. Mar. 5 Lisbon, Vigo, and 0p 0r t 0 .... F e b. 17, 11 .outhamp. Feb. 21 Malta, Egypt, and Ades, via Southampton . Feb.lB, AI g: outhamp. Feb. 18 Ditto, via Marseilles Mexico and Havana Newfoundland United States and liritish N Amerioa (by British paeket) Feb. 17,E ivorpeol.. " b. 22 Ditto (by U. S. pa cket) Feb. 22, E Senthanap. West Coast of Af Hem, Ma deira, and Tenerifie Feb. 23 B Liverpool.. Mar. le West India, California, Vene zuela, Chili, Peru, Grey town, New Granada, &c Feb. 17, 11 - outhamp. Feb. 18 [ADVERTISEMENT.]—Notice.—In consequence of 'Messrs Lawes and Morton having just commenced 1860 with opposi tion similar to that which they previously advanced, and wish ing to do those gentlemen every justice, Mr. Thorley is induced to enlarge his coming pamphlet, making it 64 pages instead of 32 showing beyond doubt that their observations on the so-called " Concentrated Cattle Food," and so-called " feeding statistics," are without foundation ; that the liothanisted experiment was not made with his food, and consequently that this complete failure must either be through mismanage ment or from buying the Condiment at the wrong shop. Tho first impression of One Hundred Thousand Copies will be ready about the first day of Marcia, and may be had post free on receipt of Three Stamps, on application to Joseph Thorley. the Inventor and sole Proprietor of " Thorley's Food for Cattle," 77, Newgate-street, London ; 21, Broadway, New York, United States ; Mr. J. W. Thorley, Melbourne ; Vic toria ; Mr. Alfred Burt, Sydney, New South Wales ; and of all his agents throughout the United Kingdom.—Feb. 2, 1860 BIRTHS. GLP.NDINING.—On the 10th inst., at Seedley, noar Man chester, the wife of Sidney Glendining, Esq., of a sox. KIDD.—On the 11th inst., at Brooklands, Blackheath, the wife of Joseph Kidd, Esq., M.D., of a daughter. RASIMALL.—On the 16th inst , at 39, St. George's-road, Pimlico, the wife of the Rev. John Rashdall, of Eton Chapel, of a son. MARRIAGES. SMA.LLWOOD —Suiw.---On the lbth inst., at Stoke Prior Worcestershire, Rob er t Smallwood, Esq., of Csatll Bromwich, Warwickshire, to Edith Maria, daughter °a James Shaw, Esq., of }lnstall House, WorcestershirP DEATHS. liEnnlNG.—On the 14th inst., Robett W. Herring, UK'' of Pulse-hill, and 109, Fleet-street„ aged 76. RANSPORD.—On the 15th inst., at Bourton-on-the-Wote r f Gloucestershire, Mary, relict of the late Mr. Josh. RO I. ford, aged 90. SPOONER.—On the 14th inst., at Leamington, Charlotte', wife of Richard Spooner, E s q., M.P., an d daughter 0 . 1 the late Very Rev. N. Wetherell, D.D. D ea n of Merle' ford, and Master of University College, ' Oxford, aIPEI' LONDON : Printed and Published by MURDO youlsTa of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. u 1 Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the Conn"' '- Middlesex, Filial-, February 17, 1860. the . an, Ra vat the hot fact Mt T 'a~. `the ' heal a►ed etre the fihd *tut tubl oil er p Iron 11 Pub 1 l'on t Cart to a l diar Oirc bilit ,--11, latd