The Sun. — London, England, 1859-03-01 00:00:00

EVENING,) etters patent f to the dignity of a 3ritain and Ir e , in the county Of wfully begotte n. ct letters pate sit the dignity of at Britain a ad Idenham, in 1 do ie heirs malt )of A Mr. Theoe lore States of A me- It 1. of Mr. Garrett Loes for the Free 1E PRESENT —The Honour thorpe, of Perri room of George Dd to the House 'ARCH, 1. , Uhomas Nisbet i ~ who retires; 1 ,0 Captain, by stt 'r to be Lien- ( 7alvert to be in, deceased. Till Uniacke to Maj tI. Forster, Ma r jo. rity. Bridg -or, front lase, vice Noel ry Lee Carter, hangee. L Philip Amith the Adju‘autici won has heen. I Brown, front ea Henry Lee nsell to be In- Vilkinson, who ;4th Foot, to be s. stant-Surgeon. be Assistant ructor of Mus- Rattrap, M.D., vice Gamble, Stephen Terry ;e, promoted in from the 17th xehanges. rent to be In- has been per- to be Instruc- ) to be Captain, ;e, promoted ; nsign, by pur• he 98th Foot, ,anges. )inted on 15th Tson, as then 3 Instructor of 97th Foot, to anges. 3 84th Foot, to anges. ingham, from Cay, who ex- baut, from the 1 aitland, who in the Royal jor, vice Sur- o be Surgeon, placed upon appointed to appointed to ointed to the Anted to the iointed to the .D., has been tier Majesty's at the Royal the rank of r Lieutenant, Henry Pier.. Penny cuick, iNANT. to be DoputY inry Cavalry Cornet, vice lulf Keogh, rt Metcalfe, lea Militia-- aptain, vice mtry) Regi- Wm. Upton. Bolton, re- econd Lieu- Lieutenant, Gent, to b© ia—Thomas , signed. ;0 surrender he Court of ['field, City, he Court of rer, Upper L and April "ottinghani f , ankruptcy• 43rge Raper rch 14, at 00l District ncl April 9, tire, March Kingston- Fe, licensed April 8, at t half-past of Bank- d Grange, intilloc h. 11 16 11 18 11 18 25 3737 ii 25 13 6 25 12 25 37f 25 37/ 1181. 11 4 11 50 351 49f 49f 29 73 25 55 40k 121 121 62 53f ids. 60d; 241 24 24 1 ult. t. 17 9 0 0 5 If rnment y, sailed Victoria, men, 33 making nder the .D. Her Mice of 3d inst., L, Table s, to be m such the 4th sth and ated re- Id yes" named mrsday remises of Rat :o fill it slipped Lied the ATE EWS. The following telegrams have been received at Mr. Reuter's office : LISBON, MARCH 1. The Royal mail steam ship Tamar has arrived with the Brazil mails, and leaves this morning for Southampton. She brings 94 passengers, diamonds to the value of £47,645, and £43,300 in gold. VIENNA, FEB. 28. Lord Cowley presented his credentials this morning. TURIN, FEB. 28. Advices have been received from Milan to the 27th inst. In consequence of the popular demonstrations at the funeral of Signor Dandolo numerous arrests and domiciliary visits have taken place, but several persons whom it was intended to arrest succeeded in escaping. The prisoners were conducted to the Castle and delivered over to a military commission. MILAN, FEB. 24 Last evening a disturbance among the lower classes broke out before the doors of the " Alla Scala" Theatre. The mob endeavoured to preven t the entrance of the masks into the theatre, about eleven o'clock, by hissing, whistling, and throwing stones, but order was quickly restored.. A second duel has been recently fought here. The combatants were an Austrian officer and au engineer from Crema, Among the persons who have lately emigrated to Piedmont are included the son of the Podesta of our town, two functionaries (attaches of the Arch duke Governor), several employes in the financial department, and even an officer of police. It is expected that the Archduke will return to this town in the course of a few days. Very many persons here are of opinion that the line of policy adopted by the Government of Eng land tends to neutrality ; they think at all events that England desires peace ; and with this object in view she may persuade Austria to g• great lengths in yielding to the pressure froan without. FRANCE. PARIS, 'MONDAY. The chances of peace or war with Austria still continue the same. The great, perhaps the greatest, chance for peace is in the decided disinclination for war which exists throughout France in all classes except, perhaps, the army, and there principally among the regimental officers, who naturally want promotion. Among the higher officers there is very little or no desire for war. It is certain that this feeling among the population at large sur prises, irritates, and embarrasses the Emperor. It is a pity his Majesty has not taken the pains to learn something of the 'popular feeling before he allowed matters to go so far. The debate of Friday in the English Parliament, and particularly the speeches of Lord Palmerston and Mr. Disraeli, have produced the best possible effect here. Persons attached to the Imperial Go vernment, some of them in the highest class of func tionaries, speak of that debate in terms of admi ration, and some who were lukewarm about the English alliance seem now taken with a strong affection for it, as in some measure the best gua rantee against a disastrous policy. A demand is to be addressed to the Legislative Corps for a supplementary credit, applicable to the extraordinary expenses of the Minister of Marine. These expenses refer, perhaps, to the 60 new vessels of war, of various dimensions, which are said to have been prepared for sea within the last six months. BOURSE, Feb. 28.—The following were the last quotations :- 41 per Cents. 95 Do. end moath 97 50 3 per Cents. 6B Do. end month 68 Bank Shares. 2895 Credit Mobilier 770 Do. Account Credit Fonder 646 Belgian 41 . — Piedmontese (6) Bl 60 Roman — Austrian Spanish Threes Home Debt — RAILWAYS. Cash. Account. Orleans Northern 920 New ditto — Lyons and Mediterranean B3O Now ditto — Geneva 535 830 - Midi Southern - Western 595 .. Eastern Grand Central Sardinian Austrian Exchange on London, at sight, paper, 25f. 15c. ; money, 25f. 10c. ; three months, paper, 25±. ; money, 24f. 95c. Letters received at Frankfort from Kehl an nounce that the continuation of the works at the standing bridge over the Rhine between Kehl and Strasburg have been stopped, and the workmen paid off. THIS DAY'S MARKETS. HAY MARKETS. SMITITPIELD.—Meadow hay, £2 15s to £4 10s ; clover, do., £4 Os to £5 Os; and straw, £1 4s to £1 10s per load. A steady trade, at fully late rates. CUMBERLAND.—Meadow hay, £2 15s to £4 10s; clover do., £4 Os to £5 Os ; and straw, D. 5s to £1 8s per lead. A heavy demand, but prices firm. WHlTEcuArEL.—Meadow hay, £2 15s to £4 8s ; clover do., £4 Os to £5 Os; and straw, £1 3s to £1 8s per load. Both hay and straw sold slowly, at our quotations. COLONIAL. TEX.—The market continues exceedingly firm, owing to the advices by the overland mail. Common congou is quoted 131 d to 13d per lb. SuciAn.—There has been very little activity exhibited in the market, and the few dealings reported have been at about former quotations. In the refined market a moderate busi ness has been done, and prices generally are a shade firmer. COFFEE.—The market remains firm, but little business has I )eentransacted, and no change of importance can be noticed in prices. Rim—Soft-grain descriptions have been in good de mand, at fully late rates, but other qualities have shown little alteration. SALTPETRE.-At public sale prices went rather higher ; and in the private market there is a fair inquiry for the better qualities. TALiow.—The market is dull, and the demand for csn sumption has been limited. P.Y.C. on the spot is quoted 52s 6d ; March, 52s 3d to 52s 6d ; and last three months, 52s 6d per cwt. COAL MARK (Prices of Coal per Ton at ET—FEB. 28. the close of the market.) 8. d. Burnhope 11 6 Byass's Bebside West Hartley .14 6 Lambert's West Hart- Walls End. s. 'l. Byron .15 6 Northumberland 14 6 Wharncliffe 15 0 Braddyll's Hetton 16 6 Heugh Hall 16 0 Whitworth 14 6 Haswell l7 6 Kepier Grange...... l6 9 Hetton. . Tees.... l7 6 Shincliffe. ~ ..15 3 Thorpe Fothergill's Aberdare 21 0 Kelloe l6 9 Framwellgate l5 3 ley 14 6 Tanfield Moor 11 6 Tanfield Moor Butes 11 6 Haswell Gas. 11 6 Walker Primrose 12 0 Wylam l4 6 Davison's West Hart ley 14 6 , t, 148—Sold, 75. Walls End. Gosforth Harton Hartlepool. l7 3 Ships at market THIS DAY'S SHIPPING. LONDON, March I.—Wind this day at noon W. to S.W.; light breeze, and fine clear weather. (BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.) SOUTHAMPTON, Tuesday Morning. Wind W. Arrived—Wonder, steamer, from Jersey. LIVERPOOL, Tuesday Morning. Wind W.S.W. Arrived, Feb. 28.—Lord Elgin, from Demerara. (BY SUBMARINE AND BRITISH TELEGRAPH.) GRAVESEND, Tuesday Morning. Wind W; tide two hours' flood ; fine. Arrived, Feb. 28—John Bull, from Hombre. D Bk., Tuesday Morning. Wind W.N.W., light. Passed, Feb. 28.—Kensington, from Calcutta ; Mel bourne, screw steamer, from Bermuda; Monteagle, from Moulmein ; Janet, from Melbourne ; Thomas Blyth, from Madras—all for London. 9 Her Majesty and his Royal Highness the Prince Consort, accompanied by the Princess Alice, nenintred the performance at the Olympic Theatre with their presence last evening. Her Majesty the Queen will hold a Privy Council on Thursday next, the 3d inst., at Buckingham Palace, LAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY). The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. THE . The Earl of HARDWI MANNING CKE laid on NAVY the table the rea• sons of Mr. Li n d say f or not signing the report of the Com mission on Manning the Navy. THE PAPAL STATES. The Earl of CLARENDON begged to draw the atten tion of his noble friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs to a discrepancy in a statement he had made in that house on one made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the other house of Parliament on Friday last. The Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that the French and Austrian Govern ments were willing to evacuate the Papal States, and that the Papal Government was anxious that such a movement should be made. His noble friend on Friday stated that at no distant date the French and Austrian troops would be withdrawn at the request of the Papal Government. He thought that although both parties might wish to with draw their troops, they would be restrained from so doing by neither being aware of the exact wish of the other, nor of their line of conduct. He wished, therefore, to know the exact information in the possession of the Government, that no discrepancy might mar the effect of the discussion. Lord MALMESBURY said he was very glad to give all the information in his power, but the noble earl's observa tions with respect to what he tented discrepancy, seemed to assume a distinction without a differ ence. (Hear, hear.) His honourable friend and himself meant the same thing. The knowledge they both possessed was that the Papal Government requested, of its own accord, the evacuation of its territory by the French and Austrian troops, and he could not see any excuse for the French and Austrian troops remaining for a single day after such an announcement. He had seen the French ambassador since the discussion on Friday, and he stated that his Government were quite willing to evacuate the Italian territory. Lord BROUGHAM asked the noble earl if he could in form him as to the object of the immense warlike prepara tions which were being made by a neighbouring power, and which, as was well known to most of their lordships, was the real cause of the anxiety which was felt in Europe I He did not suppose there was any just reason for alarm, since the noble earl and his colleagues, notwithstanding these war like preparations, had found time for the preparation of a measure for Parliamentary Reform. The Earl of MALMESBURY said the information he had received was to the effect that there was no real ground for alarm on account of the warlike preparations alluded to by his noble and learned friend. The preparations were not being carried on to a greater extent than was actually necessary for the preservation of peace. Lord i3ROUGHAM said the answer was perfectly satis factory. DEBTOR AND CREDITOR BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the second reading of this bill. Lord ST. LEONARDS objected to the bill on the ground that consolidation was not carried out so fully as it ought to be. He thought that the bill he had introduced last session was far better than the one at present under consi deration. Lord CAMPBELL considered that as there was another bill introduced in the other house of Parliament upon the same subject (Lord J. Russell's bill), it would be desirable that they should have both bills before them when they came to consider this question of the law of bankruptcy and and he would suggest to his noble and learnedfriend the desirability of reading the bill a second time and refer ring it to a select committee with that view. The LORD CHANCELLOR, though anxious to do all in his power to facilitate the most complete investigation of the subject, must decline to accede to the suggestion of re ferring the bill to a select committee, because he believed the result of such reference would be that no bankruptcy bill would pass during the present session. With regard to the bill now before the other house, they did not know that it would ever come up to their lordships ; at all events, it could not come up until so late a period that if the consi deration of the subject were deferred till then, legislation this year would be impossible. Nor was there any necessity for sending the bill to a select committee to discuss it clause by clause. The bill was one of principle rather than one of detail. Its great leading features were the abolition of im prisonment for debt; the getting rid of the distinction be tween traders and non-traders, and bringing the adminis tration of bankruptcy and insolvency into the same court ; and the providing for the liquidation of debtors' effects by private arrangement or public inquiry. That was all that their lordships were called upon to affirm by the second reading of this bill, and beyond this there was nothing more than the details applicable to those principles. He must, therefore, with all respect for his noble and learned friend, decline to accede to his suggestion for sending the bill to a select committee, from wiueh, as it appeared to him, no advantage could be gained, but which might occasion great disadvantage in the delay which would in all probability result. After a few words from several noble lords, The motion was then put and agreed to, and the bill was read a second time. Their lordshiia - adjourned at half-past seven. HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAT. The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. A short time previously a number of members assembled, and the house was nearly filled by the time the business commenced, in consequence of the anxiety felt to learn the details of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's Bill on Par liamentary Reform. The strangers' gallery was also crowded, and the house presented a very animated appear ance. NEW MEMBER. Mr. EDWIN JAMES took the oaths and his seat for Mary lebone. PRIVATE BUSINESS. TRAVELLERS' AND MARINE INSURANCE AND ACCIDENTAL DEATH INSURANCE COM PANIES' AMALGAMATION (No. 2) BILL. This bill was read a secon.d time and ordered to be com mitted. PETITIONS. Sir T. GRAHAM presented a petition in favour of the £lO county franchise. Gen. 11-100 SON presented petitions in support of the adoption of manhood suffrage, vote by ballot, &c. The hon. and gallant member said that his petitions were founded on the principle that " A man's a man for a' that." (Laughter.) Several petitions were also presented on behalf of the let ter carriers and others employed in the provincial post- offices, praying to be placed on the same footing as those con nected with the London, Dublin, and Edinburgh offices. ARMY ESTIMATES. In reply to Capt. ViviAN, General PEEL said that he proposed to bring forward the army estimates next Friday. TRANSIT OF BATTERIES TO INDIA. Sir De L. EVANS asked the Secretary of State for India whether it was the fact that 12 field batteries of ar tillery were ordered or intended to be sent to India ; and whether the transit of troops to India by way of Egypt was ordered to be totally discontinued ? Lord STANLEY said the batteries wore ordered, but would not be sent out at present; and with regard to the second question, the practice would be discontinued. PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. The orders of the day having been postponed till after the notice of motion on the representation of the people, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose and said—Sir s it is my duty to-night to draw the attention of the house to a subject than which nothing more important can be submitted to their consideration. Those which aro called most important political questions—those questions, for example, of peace or war, which now occupy and agitate the public mind —are, in fact, inferior. In either of those eases an erroneous policy may be retraced, and there are no disasters which cannot be sucessfully encountered by the energies of a free people; but the principles upon which thi Le distribution of power depend in a community when once adopted can rarely be changed. An error in that direction may permanently affect the fortunes of a State or the character of a people. But, grave as is the duty, and difficult as is the task which have devolved upon her Ma jesty's Government in undertaking to prepare a measure to amend the representation of the people in this house, these, I admit, and cheerfully admit, are considerably miti gated by two circumstances—the absence of all passion on the subject, and the advantage of experience. Whatever may be the causes, on which I care not to &sell, I believe that on this subject and on this occasion I. appeal to as im partial a tribunal as is compatible with a popular form of government. (Hear, hear.) I believe there is a general wish among all men of light and reason in this country that Con solution of this long-contreNerted question should be earrived at, and that if public mon occupying the position 'chich we now occupy feel it their duty to come forward to offer that solution—one which I trust in our case will not be based upon any mean concession or any temporary com promise, but which will be consistent with the principles and spirit of our constitution, which will bear the scrutiny of debate, and which, I trust, may obtain the sympathy of public opinion —I feel persuaded that in the present conjuncture of our political world such an attempt will meet from this house a candid though discriminating support. (Hear, hear.) Equally so, it may also be ob served that the public mind of this country has for the last quarter of a century, and especially during its latter portion, been so habituated to the consideration of all questions connected with the popular representation, the period itself has been so prolific of political phenomena in the contem plation and study, and I may also say the judgment of the people of this country, of this subject, that we:should have felt it our duty to undertake this task. We are in a much more favourable position, I admit, than the statesmen who in 1832 undertook the great effice which then devolved upon them, b:ecause :we address not only the Parliament but those i the country w h o b y th e i r k now l e d ge have be come e`aapetent to consider this subject, and all will agree that, this fact will greatly facilitate the discussion upon it. Although some of those who took a leading part in the transactions of 1832, happily for us, still sit in both Houses of Parliament, yet so long is the space of time that has elapsed since those occurrences, I think it not impossible to speak of them with something of the candour of history. I do not doubt the future records of this country will acknowledge that during some of the most important poli tical events of modern history those events were treated with the energy and ability becoming British statesmen. If we look at the circumstances under which the measure of 1831 was introduced, the proceedings of this house at the time, and the character of its members, it must be ad mitted that that measure was equal to the emergency it controlled and directed. I cannot, indeed, agree with those who attribute to the legislation of 1832 every measure of public benefit that has been passed by this house during th e l as t t wen t y -fi ve years; I k now well that before the reform of this house took place the adminis trations of this country were distinguished by their efficiency ; I believe; indeed, that especially in the latter re - of the administration of Lord Liverpool, this house was rather in advance of the opinion of the country at large. But I think that the reform of the House of Commons in 1832 greatly added to the energy and public spirit in which we had then become somewhat deficient. Sir, it must be remembered that the labours of the statesmen who took part in the transactions of 1832 wersleAklently experi .Z4-A IMPERIAL PARL THE SUN, LONDON, TUESD A Y EVE NING ‘ MAIICTI. 1, 1850, mental. They had to solve certain problems with a great want of data on which nice and accurate conclusions could be arrived at ; in many respects they had to treat the sub j ect empirically, and it is not to be wondered at if in the course of time it - was found that some errors were com mitted in that settlement, and if as time rolled on that some, if not many, deficiencies were discovered. I beg the house to consider well these effects of time, and to consider well also what has been the character of the 25 years that have elapsed since the Reform of 1832. Those years form no ordinary period. In a progressive country and a progressive age progress has been not only rapid, but perhaps precipitate. There is no instance in the history Of Europe of such a vast increase of population as has taken place in this country during this period. There is no ex ample in the ancient or modern history of Europe, or of America, of the creation and accumulation of capital so vast as has occurred in this country in those 25 years. And I believe a general diffusion of intellig4nce has kept pace with that increase of population and wealth. In that period you have brought science to bear on social life in a manner no philosopher in his dreams could ever have anticipated. In that space of time you have, in a manner, annihilated both time and space. The influence of the discovery of print ing is really only beginning to work on the multitude. It is therefore not surprising that in. a measure passed 25 years ago, in a spirit necessarily experimental, however distin guished were its authors, and however remarkable for their ability, some omissions have been found that ought to be supplied, and some defects that ought to be remedied. In this state of things a question in England becomes what is called a public question ; Parliamentary Reform, in our present circumstances, has become a public question —a pub lic question in due course of time becomes a Parliamentary question; and then, as it were, shedding its last skin, it becomes a Ministerial question. (Cheers and laughter.) Reform has been for 15 years a Parliamentary question ; for 10 years it has been a Ministerial question. It is 10 years since the Minister of that day, who sat in this house, after a series of motions, the object of which was to change the settlement of 1832, after resisting those motions for some time, declared it to be the opinion of himself and his colleagues that some alteration ought to be made in it. Public events prevented that Minister from immediately acting on that public declaration. But in 1852, I believe in this very month of February, the Prime Minister coun selled her Majesty to address Parliament from the Throne in these terms : "It appears to me that this is a fitting time for calmly considering whether it may not be advisable to make such amendments in the Act of the late reign relating to the re presentation of the Commons in Parliament as may be deemed calculated to carry into more complete effect the principles on which that law is founded. I have the fullest confidence that in any such consideration you will firmly adhere to the acknowledged principles of the Consti tution by which the prerogative of the Crown, the authority of both Houses of Parliament, and the rights and liberties of the people are equally secured." In consequence of that announcement from the Throne a measure of Parliamentary Reform was brought forward by the Ministry of the day. It was not pressed, in consequence of a change of Government which then took place. But two years afterwards, another Minister being at the head of affairs, a Minister who, in the general tenor of his politics, afforded a contrast to the one who introduced the measure of 1852—a Minister born and bred in what is termed the Tory camp, as his predecessor was born and bred in the Whig camp,—(hear, hear)—this Minister being called on to form a Government, had to consider the requirements of the country, as every individual with that responsibility is bound to consider them—felt it his duty to counsel her Majesty in February, 1854, to address to Parliament this language from the Throne : " Recent experience has shown that it is necessary to take more effectual precautions against the evils of bribery and corrupt practices at elections. It will also be your duty to consider whether more complete effect may not be given to the principles of the Act of the last reign, whereby reforms were made in the representation of the people in Parlia ment. In recommending this subject to your consideration my desire is to remove every cause of just complaint, to in crease general confidence in the Legislature, and to give ad ditional stability to the settl e d i ns tit u ti ons o f the State." In consequence of that announcement another measure was brought forward by the Ministry of Lord Aberdeen, which was considered stronger than the measure of 1852, pro posed by Lord J. Russell, if it is not against order so to men tion that distinguished name. But circumstances again changed, and prevented the Legislature from proceeding with that measure of Reform. The country became involved in a war with a first-rate Power—a war that might be de scribed as European. Before it terminated a change of Go vernment again occurred. Another statesman, who may well be compared with the two distinguished men who pre ceded him, a statesman renowned not only for his ability, but his great experience, and whose political prejudiceee.if he has any (laughter and cheers)—l will say, then, from whose superiority to prejudice (cheers) was considered a statesman who had no morbid sympathy with advanced opinions. (Renewed cheers and laughter), Then what did the noble lord deem it to bo his first civil duty to accom plish when he accepted the responsibility of office, and peace had been concluded ? In the same solemn and impressive manner adopted by the noble lord the member for the city, and by the Earl of Aberdeen, the noble lord in 1857, on the termination of the war, counselled his Sovereign to address Parliament in these words:— " Your attention will be called to the laws which regulate the representation of the people in Parliament with a view to consider what amendments may be safely and beneficially made therein." The house will, therefore, see that during three Ministries the subject of Parliamentary Reform has been formally brought before th e attention of the Legislature. And let me remind hon. gentlemen that, although circumstances have prevented the Ministers preceding us from either proceed ing with the measures which they introduced, or with the measures whichthey proposed, the house has shown during that interval no disposition to wait and no reluctance to deal with it. The consequence is, that you have had, up to the end of the last session of Parliament, independent members of this assembly continuing that course which was pursued before any of those messages from the Throne were delivered to the Legislature —.namely, that of carrying a re form of Parliament by measures of detail instead of taking a general view and bringing forward a comprehensive phut which should effect a fair adjustment of all the points in controversy. This, sir, was the state of the question when a change of Government again occurring Lord Derby be came responsible for the administration of this country. Let me now ask the house what in their opinion was our duty under these circumstances ? That, from the peculiar position at which this question had arrived, it might have been practicable by evasion for a time to stave off a solution which had become, in our mind, a public duty, I do not say is impossible ; but that is a course which, speaking for my colleagues and myself, I may respectfully observe, is not at all congenial with our tastes, (Hear.) Were you to allow this question, which the Sovereign had three times announced was ono that ought to be dealt with—which three Primo Ministers, among the most skilful and authoritative of our statesmen, had declared it was their intention to deal with —to remain in abeyance ? Was it to be left as a means of re-organizing an opposition ? Is that the opinion of either side of this house ? Is it the judgment of this house that that is a wholesome position for political questions of the highest quality to occupy ? Was Parliamentary Reform —a subject which touches the interests of all classes and all individuals, and in the wise and proper settlement of which the very destiny of this country isconcerned—to be suffered to remain as a desperate resource of faction; or was it a matter to be grappled with only at a moment of great po pular excitement, and settled, not by the reason, but by the passion of the people ? (Cheers.) Were veto establish, as it were, a chronic irritation in the public mind upon this sub ject, which of all others should not form the staple of our party contests ? Were the energies of this country —an ancient country of complicated civilisation —were they at this time of day, boasting as we do of a Throne that has endured for a thousand years, to be distracted and diverted from their proper objects, the increase of the wealth and welfare of the community, and wasted in a discussion of the principles of our constitution, and of what should be the fundamental base of our political institutions ? I can not for a moment believe that this house would think that a posture of affairs which would be free from danger to the empire, or which it would bo honourable for any public man to sanction. (Cheers.) Having, then, to consider the state of the country with reference to this question, and re calling all those details which on this occasion I feel it in cumbent on me to place before the house, the Government of Lord Derby on their accession to power had to inquire what it was their duty to fulfil. And, Sir, it was the opinion —the unanimous opinion of the Cabinet of Lord Derby, that this subject must be dealt with, and dealt with in an earnest and since spirit. (Cheers.) But I am told that, although it might be necessary that a solution should be effected, although three Prime Ministers who had made the attempt had withdrawn from the effort, yet it was not for Lord Derby—even if he deemed it for the interests of his country, and held it to be his paramount duty in the posi tion that he occupied—to undertake such a task. Sir, I dispute that statement. (Cheers.) I say it is not a just statement, and cannot in discussion be at all maintained. What is there in the previous career of the garble earl at the head of her Majesty's Government which should preclude him from taking this course ? (Cheers.) The noble lord the member for the City of London has connected his name with the question of Parliamentary Reform to his enduring honour. I do not grudge the well- earned celebrity which he enjoys. But the noble lord can remember the day when Lord Grey summoned him and Mr. Stanley to his Cabi net in 1832, and the noble lord knows well that, had it not been for their high ability and energy, probably the Reform Bill, and certainly not in its present shape, would never have been passed into law, I think, therefore, it cannot for a moment be contended that there is anything in the position or antecedents of the head of the Gov ernment t h at should preclude him from dealing with this question. What is there in the position of hon. gentlemen who sit on this side of the house to render it an inconsistent act on their part to adopt the course which I shall recommend to-night ? IVhy, when the noble lord in troduced his measure, and also when the measure of the Earl of Aberdeen was introduced into this house, I, acting with the complete sanction and at the personal request of many now sitting behind and around me on these benches, expressed our views upon the course pursued by the Govern ment of that day. I stated then, on their behalf, that we should offer no opposition to any measure which might be brought in the object of which was to effect a reconstruction of this house. I said that we were prepared to adhere to the Conservative compact which was wrung from the Con servative party in 1835, by taunts and reproaches as to their insincerity in professing to be bound by the Act of 1832. I said that by that Conservative compact, which was made by those who then represented the Conservative party in this houSe, we were ready to stand ; but that if those who them selves made the settlement questioned its propriety and pro posed to amend it, we should offer no opposition, but would give to those proposed amendments our candid consideration, making every effort on our part to improve the representation of the people. (Cheers.) Therefore I cannot understand the justness of the taunts which have been so freely used against our undertaking a task which, in my mind, no one who occu pies these benches can av oid or ought to shrink from. (Cheers.) Sir, it is in the pursuance of the pledge which we gave when we acceded to office that, on the part of the Government of Lord Derby, I am, with your permission, to-night to call your attention to the measure which we now think it politic that this house should adopt. Now, Sir, it ap pears to me that those who are called Parliamentary Reformers may be divided into two classes. The first are these whose object I will attempt to describe in a sentence. They are those who would adapt the settlement of 1832 to the England of 1859, and would act in the spirit and according to the genius of the existing constitution. Among these:Reformers I may be permitted to observe may be classed her Majesty's Ministers. (Hear, hear.) But, Sir, it would not be candid, and it would be impolitic in me not to acknowledge that there is another school of Re formers having objects very different from those which I have named. The new school, if I may so describe them, would avowedly effect a Parliamentary Reform on prin ciples different from those which have hitherto been acknow ledged as forming the proper foundations for this house. The new school of Reformers are of opinion that the ohief, if not the sole object of representation is to realise the opinion of the numerical majority of the country. Their standard is population ; and I admit that their views have been clearly and efficiently placed before the country. (Hear.) Now, Sir, there is no doubt population is, and must always be, one of the elements of our representative system. (Hear, hear.) There is also such a thing as property, and that, too, must be considered. (Cheers.) lam ready to admit that the new school have not on any occasion limited the elements of their representative, system solely to population. (Hear, hear.) They have, with a murmur, admitted that property has an equal claim to consideration ; but, then, they have said that property and population go together. (Hear, hear.) Well, Sir, population and property do go together —in statistics, but in nothing else. (A laugh.) Popula tion and property do not go together in politics and practice. I cannot agree with the principles of the new school, either if population or property is their sole, er if both together constitute a double, standard. I think the function of this house is something more than merely to represent the population and property of the country. This house, in my opinion, ought to represent all the interests of the country, (Cheers.) Now, those interests are sometimes antagonistic, they are compet ing, they are always independent and jealous; yet they all demand a distinctive representation in this house, and how can tint be effected, under such circumstances, by the simple representation of the voice of the majority, or even of the preponderance of property ? If the function of this house is to represent all the interests of the country, you must of course have a representation scattered over the country, because interests are necessarily local. An illustra tion is always worth two arguments ; permit me, therefore, so to explain my meaning, if it requires explanation. Let me take the two cases of the metropolis and of that kingdom of Scotland to the representation of which the hon. gentle man opposite (Mr. Baxter) is so much afraid that I should not do justice. The population of the metropolis and that of the kingdom of Scotland are, at this time, about equal. The wealth of the metropolis and the wealth of the king dom of Scotland are very unequal. Tho wealth of the metropolis yields a yearly income of £44,000,000, upon which the assessment under the great schedules of the income-tax is levied ; while the amount upon which assessment is lolled under those schedules in Scotland is only £30,000,000. (Hear.) There is, therefore, the differ ence between £44,000,000 and £30,000,000 ; yet, who would for a moment pretend that the various classes and interests of that country could be adequately represented by the same number of members as represent the metropo lis ? (Loud cheers.) So much for the population test ; let us now take the property test. Let us take one portion of that very metropolis to which I have this moment referred. This is an age of statistics ; I do not place more value upon them than they deserve, but this is, I believe, at least an accurate memorandum. Let us look to the wealth of the city of London. The wealth of the city of London is more than equivalent to that of 25 English and Welsh counties, returning 40 members, and of 140 boroughs, returning 232 members. The city of London—the city proper—is richer than Liverpool, Manchester, and Birmingham put together. (Cheers and a laugh.) Or take another and even more pregnant formula. The city of London is richer than Bris tol, Leeds, Newcastle, Sheffield, Hull, Wolverhampton, Bradford, Brighton, Stoke-upon-Trent, Nottingham, Greenwich, Preston, East Retford, Sunderland, York, and Salford combined, towns which return among them no less than 31 members. (Hear, hear.) The City of London has not asked me to insert it in the bill which I am asking leave to introduce for 31 members. I have heard that there is another measure of reform in hands, probably more able to deal with the subject than myself, and in hands which, perhaps, are much interested in ascertaining the claims of the City of London. Whether the noble lord has made his , arrangements according to the statistical return we shall probably know some day or other ; but the citizens of Lon don have lotted with great modesty and propriety. They seem to be satisfied with their representation, and to con sider that, probably, no place requires a greater number of members than the City of London at present possesses. Perhaps they have some suspicion that, if they had morel members, they would find some difficulty in obtaining men who were competent to discharge that office. Se much for the population test, and so much for the property test, if you are to reconstruct the house on either of those , principles ; but the truth is that men are sent to this house to represent the opinions of a place, and not its power. (Hear, hear.) We know very well what takes place at a Parliamentary election in this country. The man of princely fortune has, when he comes to the poll, no more votes than the humble dweller in a £lO house, because we know very well that his wealth, his station, and his character will give him the influence which will adequately represent his pro perty, and the constitution shrinks from a plurality of votes I in such a case. The constitution also shrinks from the en- 1 joyment of a plurality of votes by large towns by means of seats in this house. (Cheers.) It wants the large towns and cities of England to be completely represented. It wishes to see the members for Liverpool, Manchester, and Birmingham, in their places, ready to express the views of those powerful and influential communities, and it recog nises them as the representatives of the opinions of those places, but not as the representatives of their power and in fluence. (Hear, hear.) Because what happens to the rich man an a contested election will happen to those places. Why, sir, tho power of the City of London or that of the city of Manchester in this house is not to be measured by the honour able and respectable individuals whom they send here to represent their opinions. I will be bound to say that there is a score —nay, that there are three score— members in this house who are as much and more inte rested, perhaps, in the city of Manchester than those who Are in this house its authoritative and authentic represen tatives; and when a question arises in which the interests of Manchester, Liverpool, or Birmingham are concerned, the influence of those places is shown by the votes of per sons so interested in their welfare as well as by those of the respectable and respected individuals who are sent here to represent them. Look at the metropolis itself, not speaking merely of the City of London. Is the influence of the metropolis in this house to be measured by the 16 members who represent it—(a laugh)—and who re present it, I have no doubt, in a manner perfectly satis factory to their constituents, or they would not be here ? No I we all of us live in the metropolis ; some of the members of this house have property, a few of them im mense property, in it ; and, therefore, the indirect influence of the metropolis in this house is not to be measured merely by the number of members which it returns to Parliament. So much for that principle of population, or that principle of property, which has been adopted by some, or that prin ciple of population and property combined, which seems to be the more favoured form. It appears to me that the prin ciple, as one upon which the representation of the people in this house ought to be founded, is fallacious and erroneous. (Hear.) There is one remarkable circumstance connected with the new school who would build up our representation on the basis of a numerical majority, rind who take popula tion as their standard. It is this, that none of their prin ciples apply except in cases where p opu l at i on is conc,en tinted. (Hear.) The principle of pop u l at i on i s, a l thoug h I cannot say a favourite doctrine, because I do not think it is so, a very notorious doctrine at the present moment, but it is not novel, although introduced at a comparatively re cent period into our politics. It was broached in the dis cussions which took place when the former Reform Bills were brought in by preceding Governments. It was the favourite argument of the late Mr. Hume. His argument for Parliamentary Reform—a subject which he frequently brought before the house—was generally this :—He took some unfortunate borough in the west of England; he de scribed it as borough with a Wig small population and with very little business, and he said, " This borough returns two members to Parliament, while the great city of Man chester, with its population of hundreds of thousands and with half the business of the world concentrated in its circle, only returns the same number. Can • anything be more monstrous ? Disfranchise the small borough, and give its members to the city of Manchester." Such was the argument which for several years passed in this house =- challenged. Mr. Hume brought forward his motion for Par liamentary Reform in 1852, when, by a somewhat anions co indence, I was occupying the same seat I now fill, and it fell to my lot to make a reply to him. I stated then what I had long felt, that although I entirely rejected the principle of population, still, admitting it for the sake of argument to be a right principle, we must arrive at conclusions exactly the reverse of those which Mr. Hume and the school which he founded were perpetually impressing upon the public mind. The principle, in my opinion, is false, and would produce results dangerous to the country and fatal to the House of Commons. But if it be true—if it be our duty to form the representation :upon it—then I say you must arrive at conclusions entirely different from those which the new school has adopted. If population is to be the standard, and you choose to disfranchise small roughs and small constituencies, it is not to the great tO ‘ s you can, accord ing to your own principle, transfer th memb ers . (H e a r. ) it Perhaps the house will allow me to refer to a note of some returns which I quoted in 1852, because they are perfectly germane to the argument which I am now offering to the house. When Mr. Hume used the illustrations a sample of which I have just cited, I asked him to look to the case of North Cheshire, a county with a population 249,000, with two great towns—Macclesfield and. Stockport—together possessing a population of 93,000, and returning four mun bers to Parliament ; while the residue of the county popu lation (156,000) returned only two members. (Heat.) I asked him to look to the case of South Cheshire, a county with 206,000 inhabitants, with one town of 28,000, return ing two members to Parliament, but with the rest of the county population (178,000) returning only the same num ber, I brought before Wm the remarkable case of South Derbyshire. The population of that county was 166,000; it had only got one town—Derby itself—with 40,000 inha bitants, who returned two members to Parliament, while the residue of the county population (126,000) had only two members. (Hear.) I called his attention to the case of North Durham, with a population of 272,000. There are four great towns—Durham, Gateshead, South Shields, and Sunderland—witlt a conjoint population of 136,000, return ing six members to Parliament, while the county popula tion of identically the same number (136,000) return only two members. (Hear.) I referred him to the case of West Kent. That county has a population of 400,000. There are four great towns—Maidstone, Chatham, Rochester, and Green wich—with a j o i n t popu l at i on of 172,000, returning seven members, while the remaining inhabitants (228,000) return only two. (Hear.) I likewise cited the case of East Norfolk, with a population of 250,000. Two towns—Norwich and Yarmouth —with a population of 100,000, return four mem bers; but the county residue of 150,000 only two. I asked him to take the case of the East Riding with a population of 220,000. Hull and another town return four members; the residue of the county population (126,000) return only two. I told him to look at the West Riding, with its popu lation of 1,300,000, reduced by nine considerable towns to 800,000. Those 800,000 return only two members ; whereas the nine considerable towns, representing a population of 500,000, return 16 members. (Hear, hear.) Finally, I re ferred him to the case of South Lancashire , with a popula- ion of 1,500,000 Ten great towns in Soilth Lancashire, . - with a jOint loopulation of 1,000,000, return 15 members to Parliament, but the county residue of 500,000 return only two. (Hear, hear.) Why, sir, it is notorious that, if you come to population in round numbers, 10,500,000 of the people of England return only 150 or 160 county members, while the boroughs, representing 7,500,000, return more than 330 members. (Cheers.) Admitting, then, the prin ciple of population, which is the principle of the new sch oo l, I say you m us t disfranchise your boroughs and give their members to the counties. (Cheers, and a laugh.) Sir, I never heard an answer to this argument. (Cheers.) It cannot have been misunderstood, because it was not offered in a corner, but in this house, and I repeat that although seven years have elapsed since it was advanced in 1852, I never beard an answer given to it. I have watched the re cent agitation, when I was told that a now English consti tution was to be created on the principle of population, to see if that argument was answered. It has, indeed, been said that through a great many of the boroughs the landed interests are represented in this house. (Hear, hear, from Mr. White, followed by a general laugh.) That may or may not be a sufficient answer to the demand of the landed interests to be more represented in this house, but it is no answer to the inhabitants of the counties. (Cheers) What proves that my argument is sound, and enters into the public mind, and is accepted as authentic, is that the noble lord the member f or th e c it y i n 1854 acknowledged, with generous candour, that it had influenced him in the ' ar rangements which he had made, and a large proportion of the state—c er t a i n l y two-thirds—which formerly belonged to the small constituencies that he proposed to disfran chise he transferred to the county representation. (Hear, hear.) Let us now see, sir, what will be the conse quence if the population principle is adopted. You would have a house, generally speaking, formed partly of great landowners and partly of manufacturers. I have no doubt that, whether we look to their property or to their character, there would be no country in the world which could rival in respectability such an assembly. (A laugh.) But would it be a House of Commons—would it represent the country —would it represent the various interests of England ? (Cheers.) Why, sir, after all, the suffrage and the seat re specting which there is so much controversy and contest are only means to an end. They are means by which you may create a repre sen t a ti ve assem bl y that i s a m i rror of the mind as well as the interests of England. (Cheers.) You want in this house every element that obtains the respect and engages the interest of the country. You must have lineage and great territorial property ; you must have ma nufacturing enterprise of the highest character and com mercial weight ; you must have professional ability in all its forms ; but you want something more—you want a body of men not too intimatelyconnected either with apiculture or with manufactures, or with commerce—not too much wedded to professional thought and professional habits—you want a body of men representing the vast variety of the English character—men who would arbitrate between the claims of those great predominant interests—mon who would temper the acerbity of those huge conflicting interests. (Cheers.) Yon want a body of men to represent that immense portion of the community who cannot be ranked under any of those striking and powerful classes to which I have referred, but who are in their aggregate equally important and valuable, and perhaps as numerous. (Cheers.) Hitherto you have been able to effect this object. You have effected it by the existing borough system, which has given you a number of constituencies of various dimensions distributed over the country. No one for a moment pretends that the borough system of representation in England was originally framed that it should represent all the classes and interests of the country ; but it has been kept and cherished befause the people found that, although not directly intended for such a purpose, yet indirectly it has accomplished that object; and hence I lay it down as a principle which ought to be adopted, that if you subvert that system you are bound to substitute for it machinery equally effective. (Cheers.) That is all I ask. I am not wedded to arrangements merely because they are arrangements ; but what I hope this house will not sanction is that we should remove a ma chinery which performs the office we desire unless we are certain that we can substitute for it a machinery equally effective, (Cheers.) Now, there is one remarkable feature in the agitation of the new school; it is, not that they offer for the system they would subvert a substitute ; it is, not that they offer us a no w mac hi nery f or t h e o ld machinery they would abrogate ; but it is a remarkable circumstance that they offer no substitute whatever. (Hear.) They lay down their inexorable principle ; they carry it to its logical consequences, and the logical consequences would be that to this house in the present state of the population, no doubt, you would have men returned by large constituen cies, who would in most instances represent great wealth. I will make that concession,—but when this house is as sefnbled, how will it perform the duties of a House of Com mons ? (Hear, hear.) I will tell you what must be the natural consequence of such a state of things :—The house would lose, as a matter of course, its hold on the executive. The house will assemble; it will have men sent to it, no doubt, of character and wealth; the great majority of them matured and advanced in life; and having met here, they will be unable to carry on the executive of the count* [An Hon. Member— Why ?"] Why ? asks an hon. mom. ber. Because the experiment has been tried in every coun try, and the same result has occurred ; because it is not in the power of one or two classes to give that variety of cha racter and acquirement by which the administration of this country can be carried ono (Cheers.) Well then, if this house loses its hold over the ex ecu ti ve o f th e country, what happens I' We fall back on a bureaucratic system, and we should find ourselves, after all our struggles, even in the same position which in 1640 we had to extricate ourselves from. Your administration would be (serried on by a Minister, a Court favourite. It might not be in these times, but in some future time. The result of that system would be to create an assembly where the members of Par liament, though chosen by great constituencies, would be chosen from limited classes, and perhaps only one class of the community. (Cheers.) There is a now school of philosophers, who are of oppinion that there is no such thing as progress ; that nations move in a cycle, and that after a certain cycle they arrive at exactly the same place, and stand in precisely the same circum stances which they quitted two or three centuries before • and I am quite sure that if this house were reformed and reconstructed on the new principle of population that will occur. I have no time now to solve a problem of that depth. Such metaphysical subjects require the study and retirement of the Opposition benches. (Laughter.) put if the new system were adopted I feel quite persuaded that the House of Commons, after all its reform and reconstruc tion, would find itself in the same comparatively ignomi nious position from which the spirit and energy of the old English gentry emancipated it more than two centuries ago. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, I need not informthe house that it is no part of my duty to recommend it to adopt that new system. We cannot acknowledge the validity of those principles to which I have adverted, and which would make population, or property, or even property and population joined together, the principle on which the legislative sys tem should be constructed. (Hear.) But before I refer to that part of the subject, thereappears to me to be one branch of the utmost interest, and which it is my duty rather to touch on before I advert to any other ; and that is the state of the franchise. (Hear, hear.) If there be one subject connected with this general topic more than another, on which public feeling has been most shown, it has been in the desire to exercise the suffrage. That was the first claim that was made when the settlement of 1832 began to engage the critical spirit of the nation; and as the prosperity of this country increased, and as its wealth, population, intelligence increased—as new interests arose, and as pew classes were, as it were, called into social existence, that desire became stronger; and it is, I think, hardly necessary to declare that it was founded on a natural feeling, and one which we should by no means infer is entertained by those only who are disaffected to the institutions of the co try. On the contrary, in most instances that desire arise, no doubt from a desire to participate in benefits which are ap preciated. In considering this question, I would make first of all one general observation, as to the object which the Ministry have had in view in preparing their measure of reform. We have never in any of the arrangements whiff we shall propose to Parliament to adopt, con sidered for a moment whether they would increase or whether they would diminish the constituent body. Our sole object has been to confer the franchise on all of those to whom we thought that . privilege might be safely intrusted, and who would exercise it for the general welfare of the country. (Cheers.) I will, with the permis sion of the house, address myself first to the borough fran chise. The Reform Act of 1832, acknowledging to a certain dearee some of the old franchises of the boroughs, which exist bill to a very limited extent at present, established the franchise in boroughs en the occupation of a house of £lO value. There is a wish—l would once have said a very general wish—that instead of the household suffrage being founded on that value, it shoud be founded by preference on rating. (Hear, hear.) lam not at all surprised that more than one gentlemanhas received this observation with marks of assent and sympathy. I confess myself that I was always much biassed in favour of that idea. It appears to me that if you could make—to use a common phrase—the rate-book the register, you very much simplify the business of election — (hear)—but, when you come to examine this matter in detail in order to see how it will act, you will find that it is involved in difficulties—great, all acknowledge—and I am sorry to be obliged to confess, to my mind insurmountable. For the purpose of securing the advantage of having the rate-book for the register, you must, of course, leave perfeFt discretion to the overseer. The overseer has an interest in raising rates, people may say ; or he may be a very hot poli tical partisan. Are you prepared to leave to the overseer the absolute discretion of appointing those who are to exer cise the suffrage ? Some will say we must have . some check. But what is a check but an appeal ? And/ you appeal, you cannot do better than appeal to the revising barrister. If you have an appeal to some other parochial officer, you appeal to an inferior tribunal ; aud, indeed, unless you per mitted the overseer to be unchallenged you could not make the rate-book the register. But even beyond this there are and Assessmentitis Act, only the those rating whosee f other difficulties which you will find most perplexing. Not withstanding the is ngthe mostl eeounchiegaul business it has been to examine into this subject in its very minute details who can be aware of the preposterous conse quences which would arise from adopting a rating instead of a value qualification. Take the present qualification of £lO value, which it is very generally and popularly supposed might be supplied by an £8 rating. Now, let us see what would bo the consequence upon the present constituency of adopting an gs rating, instead of a £lO value. I will take the i ns t ance of Boston, represented by my hon. and learned friend behind me (Mr. Mayas.) The borough of Boston consists of two parishes ; the rating of one of them is upon one-half the value, and of the other upon two-thirds of the va l ue . Th e practical con sequence of having an 18 rating in Boston would be to dis franchise 400 of the electors of that borough, who may or may not be supporters' of my hon. friend. (" Hear," and a laugh.) Then, taking the case of another borough—Dover —if you had in that borough a franchise based upon rating, instead of £lO value, you would exactly double the constituency. (Hear, hear.) I have taken these two in stances from a great number of others, and the hone will fsee that the idea of establishing a franchise based upon rating, instead of occupation value, is by no means the simple tasket - of distrust. It wits said that cointrulrehti Changei were pre. is by some persons supposed be be. (Hear, hear.) The great vented in this country chiefly by this £5O tenancy clause, objection to such a measure, which led me entirely to re- The men who acted under that clause —and take them alto linquish all idea of adopting it, is that its tendency must bo gether Ido not believe that a more valuable class to whom directly to disfranchise many of the constituencies. I will 'to intrust the franchise couldbe found—(hear, hear)—were now proceed to consider the franchise of boroughs based described in this house as men void of all patriotism and upon a value qualification. The £lO qualification has - been public ?spirit, exercising the suffrage without the slightest very severely assailed, and I think the objections to it'may effort of intelligence, merely at the beck of their landlords. be ranged under two heads. First, it is said that there is NOthi ng can b e more exaggera t e d or groundless than the no principle in a franchise founded on a £lO qualification ; sentiments which have been expressed in this house on the and secondly, it is said that a - constituency based upon such effect of the Chandos clause and on the influence which it a qualification is extremely monotonous. ("Hear," and a - hai on popular elections. (Hoar.) In the first place, voters laugh.) It is said that there is such an identity of interest under the Chandos clause at no time ever. exceeded -one in 1 . 1 constituency so founded, when w e oug h t to seek for fifth of the Constituent bodies of counties. Thereforei had variety of character, that that alone is an objection ; and it they all voted the sarneway they never could have exercised has really become almost a phrase of contumely to speak of that influence upon public events which has been ascribed a constituency as " only ten-pounders." (A laugh.) I to them. (Hear, hear.) But the proprietary of the soil will in the first place touch upon the objection that a £lO does not rest with the Tories and Conservatives. There borough qualification is one founded upon no principle. are Whig landlords and very considerable Whig landlords. Now, I demur to that objection. It appears to me that that (Hear.) The proprietary of the soil is distributed among qualification is founded on a principle. It is said, "Why lleoprietors of all opinions, and the consequence is, that if should a man wh o lives in a £lO house be more fitted for you look at the elections you will find that those who voted the suffrage than a man who lives in a£9 house ?" That under this Chandos clause were much divided—often appears to me to be no argument. It a mere sophism and equally divided. (Hear, hear.) It is not true, therefore, cavil. If it be an arg umen t it i s an argumen t a g a i ns t a ll th a t t h ose who vote under this qualification have exercised tests, and not in favour of a£9 qualification. But the £lO any very great influence upon the legislation of this coup• qualification was intended as a test; and the question is— try, or that they are a class who have acted always without is it a test that is effective ? (Hear, hear) It is a test very intent or meanin g . (H ear, h ear. ) T here is no doubt that easily accessible; it is a test which, if adopted, is universal dissatisfaction, followed by mistrust and misrepresentation, in its application ; and it is a test which affords a fair pre- did raise in the country an idea that the cotmty,representa sumption that the holder possesses those qualities which tion was an exclusive representation, that it was animated entitle him to perform the acts of citizenship. It is therefore only by ono object, that it had a selfish interest always be founded upon a principle ; and the objection urged against it fore it, and that it had not that sympathy with the column appears to me to be a sophism. The other objection to the £lO nity which we desire in that chosen body to whom the pri qualification is, that it gives a monotonous c h arac t er t o a v il ege o f e l ec ti on —th e highest privilege in the State—is in constituency ; that from extending the suffrage only to men trusted. An effort was made by means of the 40s. freehold, who live in £lO houses you have merely one sentiment and which was retained in counties, to counteract the exagge one class of ideas represented. That appears to me to be rated influence of the £5O tenancy voters. A manufacture altogether a fallacy, and it rests upon the fallacious assump- of votes—from the facts before me lam entitled so to call tion that every man who votes under a £lO qualification it —was carried on in the boroughs, by which it was sup necessarily lives in a £lO house. But that is not the case. posed that the injurious influence of the tenants living On the contrary, under that £lO qualification all orders of upon the land, dwelling in the counties, might be counter. men exercise the suffrage—the most affluent and the most acted. F or th e l as t 15 years —f or th e l as t t en years at a humble. A m an who lives in a house worth £4OO a year yet very great rate—this has been going on, until it has votes under the £lO qualification—(hear, hear)—and instead really arrived at this point, that the number of county of rendering a constituency monotonous, it secures within its voters who do not dwell in the counties now exceeds the range a great variety of interests, of feelings, and of opinions. number of those who vote under the £5O clause. It was (Hear, hear.) But, Sir, lam ready to admit that there are proclaimed with grea t tr i umph that w h en a gent l eman many persons quite capable of exercising the suffrage who stood for a county his neighbours who dwelt in the do not live in £lO houses—(hear, hear)—and whom I should county might vote for him, but some large town in wish to se e_possessing th e su ff rage. (Cheers.) But should the district would pour out it s l eg i ons b y ra il way, an d we obtain that result by—l won't call it the vulgar expe- on the nomination of some club in the town would. elect dient, because the epithet mi g ht be misinterpreted, though the representative for the county. Th e d we ll ers i n th e I should not use itl in an offensive sense—but by the coarse county found themselves not represented in many in and common expedient which is recommended of what is stances by those who lived among them. A sort of civil war called " lowering the franchise in towns." Now, I beg the was raised in this manner, and if hon. gentlemeiasok into house to consider for a moment what must be the effect of the statistics on this point they will see that wbat may lowering the franchise in towns. Suppose that, instead of a call an unnatural state of things was brought about,—be £lo borough qualification, you had a£s borough qualifica- cause there is no doubt that what we seek is that a man tion. Well, the moment that you hada £5 borough qualifies- should vote for the place where he resides, or for the tion, you would realise all those inconvenient results which locality in which he is really and substantially interested. are erroneously ascribed to the £lO qualification. You (Hear, hear) That is a state of affairs which is much to would then have a monotonous constituency. You would be deprecated. It is of the greatest importance that those then have a constituency whose predominant opinions who vote, whether in a borough or county constituency, would be identical. You would then have a constituency should sympathise with the community in which they ex who would return to Parliament members holding the same ercise that imporfant right. (Hear, hear.) A man who ideas, the same opini ons , the same sentiments and all that votes for a place where he resides or in which he has an variety which represent s the English character would be interest, votes with a greater sense of responsibility than entirely lost. (Hear, hear.) You would then have in your what I may call a mere stranger. (Hear.) Where, then, borough constituency a p re dominant class, and certainly when we are considering the condition and the elements of the spirit and genius of our constitution are adverse to the the constituency of the country, when we are endeavour predominance of any clase in this house. (Cheers.) It ing to reconstruct it on a broad basis, which admits within certainly would be most injudicious, not to say intolerable, its pale all th ose who are trustworthy, shall we look for when we are guarding ourselves against the predominance means by which we may terminate these heartburnings of a manufacturing and commercial oligarchy, that we and restore the constituencies of England to what I will should reform Parliament by securing the predominance of a venture to call their natural elements ? No doubt, it is a household democracy. (Cheers.) lam convinced that that labour of great difficulty. Can it be done by reconstruction is not the mode in which you must improve and vary the —can it be done by rearrangement ? It may be possible to elements of the present borough constituency. We think, pass a law which would remove these strangers from the sir, that there are modes by which that object can be ode- sphere of their political power. Perhaps it may not be Timely and efficiently attained, and if the house will per- possible to pass such a law, but whether it be or not, who mit me I will now proceed to describe them. (Cheers.) We would be rash enough to propose it ? How should we ter propose to introduce into these borough constituencies new minate these misunderstandings, how restore that good franchises. In the first place we shall introduce, as the foun- feeling—that which Lord Clarendon called the "good dation of the suffrage, a class of property which hitherto nature of the English people "—if we took a course which has not formed an element out of which voters have been would give o ccasion to a perpetual agitation for the re created—l mean personal property. We shall propose to moval of the restrictions which we had suc cee d e d in ester allow persons who have fu n d e d property—property in Bank blishing ? Her Majesty's Government have given to this Stock or in East India Stock and bonds, to the amount of subject the most anxious consideration. I may say that if £lO per annum, to exercise the suffrage. I know the ob- labour, if thought could assist us to arrive at a proper jection which may be urged by some persons against the solution, neither labour nor thought has been *pared introduction of this qualification. They will point out the (Hear, hear.) Is there any principle on which we can difficulties there will he in securing the due exercise of the restore the county constituency to its natural state, and suffrage if that element is introduced. The house will par- bring about that general and constant sympathy between don me on this occasion, when I have to travel over a vast the two portions of the constituent body which ought to field, and when I must confine myself to the chief features exist? Her Majesty's Government are of opinion that some of the measure lam recommending to their notice, if I eb- such solution does exist. We think there is a principle the stain from entering into that question. (Hear, hear.) justness of which will be at once acknowledged, the logical Enough for me now to say, that the bill which I have here, consequences of which will be at once remedial, and which, and which, with the permission of the house, I shall intro- if applied with due discretion, will effect all those objects duce, provides, in our opinion, a satisfactory and secure which we anxiously desire with respect to the oounty con• machinery by which this and l other similar franchises stituency. We find that principle m recognising the iden to which I am about to advert may be exercised. Now, tity of suffrage between county and town. (Cheers.) I will sir, there is another franchise which we shall also recom- proceed to show the house what, in our opinion, would be mend the house to adopt, and that is one which depends the practical consequences of recognising that identity. If upon the possession of a certain sum in the savings banks. the suffrages of the town are transferred to the county, and (Hear, hear.) A man who has had £6O for a year in a the suffrages of the county transferred to the town, all savings bank will, under this bill, if it becomes law, be those voters who, dwelling in a town, exercise their suf an elector for the borough in which he resides. (Cheers.) frage in the county in virtue of a county suffrage, will re- Again, a man who has a pension for public service, but who cord their votes in the town, and the 40s. freeholder resi has ceased to be employed in that service, whether it be her dent in a town—subject to provisions in the bill which Majesty's naval, military, or civil service, to the amount of would prevent this constitutional instrument being turned £2O a year, will under this bill, if it become law, be entitled to an improper use—will have a right to vote for the to a vote wherever he may reside. (Hear, hear.) Then, borough in which he resides. (Hear, hear.) This, as again, sir, the occupant of a portion of a house, the aggro- well as the franchise founded on savings bank s , w ill ope n gate rent of which amounts to £2O a year—m-I*h would b 3 another avenue to the mechanic whose virtue, prudence, Bs. a week—will also be entitled to a vote. (Hear.) The intelligence, and frugality entitle him to enter into the pri house has heard much of late years of what is called an vileged pale of the constituent body of the country. educational franchise. lam bound to say that no plan for (Cheers) If this principle be adopted a man will vote for the creation of an educational franchise, in the very precise the place where he resides, and with which he is substan sense of that word, which in their opinion would work antis- tially connected. (Hear; hear.) Therefore the first mea factorily, has been brought under the consideration of the sure would embody this logical consequence—that it would Government. It has, indeed, been proposed that the basis transfer the freeholders of the town from the county to the of such a franchise should be sought for among the mem- town. But if this principle be adopted there are other bers of the various learned societies. But, as it has been measures which in our opinion it would be the duty of very accurately observed, it does not follow that the mem- Parliament in this respect to adopt. Since the year 1832 bers of learned societies should be learned. (" Hear, hear," there has been an immense increase in the populati o n o f and laughter.) In these days we frequently see names fol- this country irrespective of the ratio of increase wit h lowed by an amount of alphabetical combinations which is which we are acquainted. The creation of railways in almost appalling; yet though we associate the highest learn- particular districts has stimulated that increase, and this ing, the greatest antiquarian and - scientific acquirements, has come to pass in England, that in a great many o f th e with those persons, it sometimes turns out that they only b oroug h s th ere i s a population residing who for all possess a respectable character and pay ten guineas a year. social and municipal purposes are part and parcel of the (Renewed laughter.) An educational franchise, according community, but who for Parliamentary purposes are to that high empyrean of imagination which some have at- pariahs. (Cheers.) A man votes for a municipality, h tempted to reach, has baffled all our practical efforts. But pays his parochial rates and taxes, he is called upon to con it will be our duty to recommend to the house that the psi- tribute to all purposes of charity and philanthropy in th e vilege of a vote, irrespective of the more formal qualification borough, but, because he lives in a part of the boroug h arising from property, should be conferred upon those classes which exceeds the boundary that was formed in 1832, he i whose education has involved some considerable invest- not, though he lives in a £lO house, permitted to vote for ment, many of them, no doubt, exercising the franchise members of Parliament. Now, all this extramural popula under the previous qualifications which I have described. tion in fact and in spirit consists of persons who ought to We have thought it advisable that the suffrage should be be electors in the boroughs in which they reside, and we conferred upon graduates of all universities—(hear, hear) therefore propose that boundary commissioners should visit —upon the ministers of religion—whether ministers and all the boroughs of England and re-arrange them accord deacons of the church or ministers of denominations— ing to the altered circumstances of the time. (Cheers.) I under regulations which the house will find in the bill ; know that these boundary commissioners may cause som e upon the members of the legal profession in all its alarm in this country. (Hear, hear.) I know there ar e branches, whether barristers, members of the inns of traditions of party arrangements effected by th a t mac hi ner y court, solicitors, or proctors ; and upon all members of the which, whether true or not, left an unpopular recollection medical body who are registered under the late Medical in the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) I believe that Act. (Hear, hear.) To these we have added such school- in the present state of public feeling on this subject, so mo masters as possess a certificate from the Council. (Hear, derate as it is, and in the present balanced state of parties, hear)) Sir, there are some other franchises which it is our no partial or improper conduct of that character, if it ever intention to give the borough constituencies ; but before I ' did take place, could be repeated. (Hear, hear.) But it is touch upon them it will be convenient that I should call quite unnecessary for me to dwell upon this point, becenso the attention of the house to the subject of the county fran- her Majesty's Ministers are so circumstanced that they can chile. (Hear.) Previous to the Reform Act of 1832, the i n th a t res p ec t ma k e a p ro p os iti on t o th e h ou se which 11 general franchise of England may be described popularly— at once dive s t it of all su s pi c ion. Since the reform of IwB to 32 though technically perhaps such a description is not quite machinery has arisen in this country perfectly competent correct—as a franchise which in the counties aro s e from e ff ec t th a t w hi c h we b e lie v e to be so necessary—l mean the property and in the boroughs from occupation. When the Inclosure Commissioners. There is a body delegateo fn'e to them ntotall ? in measure passed in 1832 was first introduced that distinction dependent of all party ; and we propose to was recognised by the statesmen who had the preparation the fulfilment of this office. (Hear, hear.) They willappoint and conduct of the bill. I have no doubt they deeply consi- deputy commissioners, who will visit the boroughs. The dored that question at the time; nor can it be denied that deputy commissioners will make their reports to the Secre if the constituencies had remained as they proposed them, terry of State, and the Secretary of State will embody them the principle thus set up would have been a distinct and a in a bill, and that bill will be s ubjoefind to criticism in this clear one. Whether, however, the distinction could have house. (Laughter andc o he been long maintained, I may with great humility per- moment suspect that three:;s). After that no one can for a be iall3b, a caripyr•ty The house has a op . portunity of maki ng milted to doubt. Looking at the immense expansion of arrangements favourable e to n the country, at its vast increase in wealth and population, right to ask me whether her Majesty's Government have and not only in wealth and population, but in those distinc- formed any estimate of what may be the consequen ce we propose in the numbers o f th e tive interests which seek representation in this house—re- of the change which membering the 10,500,000 inhabitants of counties to whom county constituencies. That is, no dont* aa p o i n t upon. I have already alluded—l venture humbly to doubt whether which one mustspeakwith eist e some degree eco! f hesitation ;. but that distinction could have been long kept up. That its there are somewhich are urmshod b materials in x maintenance was convenient to the statesmen of 1832, who by the papers efore the house, and there are others which had immense difficulties to contend with, I can easily con- are at our command. This mornin g th ere was put into my ceive ; but whatever was their intention they were disap- hand a pamphlet—probably *proof—pUbli s h ei l t o- d ay. I t pointed in the plan which they had prep a r e d, a nd circum- is by a gentleman who ranks, I belie ve , as th e most em i nen t stances occurred in this house which changed the cha _ statistical authority in the cou n t ry, w h o i s well known to ratter of the franchise and destroyed the distinction gentlemen in this house, m end who has often been examined between property and occupation which the Ministry le.bnsetftiomhreeatcosousunrthtcayotmvthmoteiers -grossesb— r. Newmarch. Mr. Newmarch increase that would:he occasioned of Lord Grey had sought to establish. Now, the duke in vidual responsible for that change was the noble y ' a £lO county franchise winds), be who was my predecessor in the scat which I now un- 103,000. I have no time to ascertain what are the data on worthily fill, and as his conduct in this respect which Mr. Newmarch makes his calculation, but I should has often been challenged, and as there are many who be disingenuous if I did not acknowledge to the house that now deplore the course which he then took,raampasrethoef morn considerable. formed by her Majesty's Ministers is much add house will for a moment permit me, who considerable. (Cheers.) I should suppose the 1- the motives which influenced him, to state am the reasons_. tion to the coun ty cons tit uenc y would be not less than which induced Lord Chandos to mov e successfully in this 200,000, one-half of which would be furnished by what sta house the celebrated clause that bears h is name. ticians cell the north-western and the north-eastern groups When the Reform Bill was introduced in 1831 it w as generally avowed . of counties—that is to say, Cheshire, Lancashire, and the was to give a legitimate West Riding on the one hand, and Kent, Sussex, and part that the object of that me asure ure the middle classes of England. of Surrey on the other. With reference to those gentlemen position in the Legislature _ That was the object avowed by the Ministry, and its pro- who have on various occasions expressed their opinion that priety was generally acknowledged. by the country. Novi. the £2O occupation franchise is one which they should pre when the principle that the . middle classes should be repre fer to see `adopted, I wouldobservethat thenumber between sented in this house was laid down, Lord Chandos, who was a £2O and a £lO franchise would, I think, be described by then the member for the coun ty of Buckingham, being a th e fi gure 100,000. B u t, w ith reference to the change of man who lived muc h amon g his neighbours, and who was the county constituency from £5O to £2O, I would observe familiar with the character and the interests of rural society, that, having given to this subject versesconsiderable pains, the great naturally felt what he consideredabsurdity that so far as I can form an opinion, there 1 would make me trust t important portion of the middle classes —the most ditional £lO house in a county which _ ad the moat who lived in a £2O even at this day, because they are therespectability of one w nothing in an important greatest the loyalty and employers of labour , —I mean the farm ers o f England— house, in preference to one w k o li ve d in a £lO house. should not possess the suffrage—(hear) —and it was with (Cheers.) I am also bound to be candid, and say that view that Lord Chandos moved the clause. The sym- that the estimate of 200,000 voters has been made irre - Pathy of the house was so great in its favour (a sympathy spective of what the effects of the labours of the not confined to party ; Mr. Hume was a supporter of the Boundary Commissioners may be. I have heard many Chandos clause) that the noble lord who then led this arguments against the proposition, but only to one of them to that not for its house,_ Lord Althorp, felt it his duty to yield to it. But would I attach much weight, n that happened then 'which sometimes does happen when strength, but for the phrase which e a nt i d s ity used which te thiscl t clothe o i it. 0 . s great measures are brought forward by a Ministry and allude to the objection that the identity county ' and town consti i- g e h le s c h tora pe l op d l i e stri fr c o t m s. an important amendment is introduced successfully by an tion would introduce between h eager Opposition. Those who have had the preparation tuencies may lead to t what .on a o r f e of great and important measures—and I see present in: my Now if the only pro a c of £lO in an occupation upon whom that task has devolved—know the great cLiffl- electoral districts is and the town, then I am afraid t c h al e led En culty, the long anxiety, the constant hesitation which franchise between the cannot be resisted. But, believing as are involved in such a task, and know how hard it its to that electoral districtsnothinn. , more unpopular in this country adapt one part to another, and to obtain that general bar- Ido that th a ere districts—(cheers) — and a that they are alien mony which will meet public wants, and which will give than electeourstoms, tcountye difference manners, and associations of the people, you a chance of carrying your measure successfully to all the fear whatever that that scheme will be adopted through. (Hear.) But when a leader of Opposition ear- I have no . h m en have lost all p ride in thei r country an ries an amendment whi c h he believes to be necessary, he until Englishmen the localitieswhich fondness- f o r n they have lived. thinks only of the proposal which he is making to the horse, all Why, Sir, electoral districts can never be esta and if the 'Ministry are obliged to adopt it it very often does (Cheers.)lished until you recognise the voice of a numerical majority not fit in with their previous design ;it does not display bushed until you recognise the Voice of a numerical majority the harmony and unison which would perhaps have been as the right principle of representation this house. the in the harmony and unison which would perhaps have been a Ch rs ) They can be formedand egar d ( ce •upon no bther principle, the case had they themselves devised it with a due r a the measures which it is my duty to • d intro me on the part for the other detail.i of the measure. (Hear.) hav - e 2 ' to ° of the Government to the house to-night have no ot h er doubt that had the Government thought fit in 1831 but to coun ty objectassert those riht principles upon which introduce the principle of occupation in the . th homogen e ous vll the representation i n this house has always been based. chise they might have rendered it so worked thper- I have now, very imperfectly, andpoints, feet their general scheme that it would have have been Suite placed before the house a general view of what we pro accustomedfect facility, that we should long ere this those distinct ions pose to do with the constituent body of the country. and to its operation, and then •ht never I save (Hear, hear.) ear, Our object is to reconstruct that body, with and difficulties which have since arisen might doubt been heard of. (Hear, hear.) But there is no that no mere view of increasing its numerical amount, but this £5O occupation solely with improving it, by the addition of the object of to whom the privilege of from the moment, or shortly after, dissatisfactionand clause was put into operation, feelings of various classes and individuals p State eg :nd 'ncls of the commui city. the franchise may be trusted, with safety to the suspicion were excited in the ma Occupiers in the county of less than £so—say of £ilo or b ene fit to th e commun ity. (Ch eers .) If th e meas ure we £2o—who, if the principle had not been admitted, would recommend be adopted, you will have a great home probablyinjured,great variety of character, never have thought themselves natui ?ally geneous constituency, _aeith . a iefee consistent with the looked with great soreness on the man who . hade voted in a for variety in the franchise is . p perfectly eat homogene pus borough because he had an occupation of £lO. filet feeling identity of the suffrage ; you will have agr there will no was unfortunatelyfollowed by those inelus- body, between the different sections of whic h . of dissatisfaction trial controversies, respecting the origin or end of which it longer exist feelings of dissatisfaction and distrust. Th e is unnecessary to say anything, but which were prol onge d, e l ec t or w ill e lect a man of the community in which he lives, high sense of duty and which undoubtedly occasioned great bitterness among and he will exercise the right under the all closes. What feeling of dissatisfaction became a fecling that iaiinencee Englishat OA In whaling it, iIW always ~: