The Sun. — London, England, 1858-03-13 00:00:00

THE SUN, LONDON SATURDAY EVENING MARCEI 13, 15NR ime, five at a time of way and peace, or six while there waspeace. He was at a loss to reconcile the r es t r i c ti on with tb e dictates of wisdom or justice, small as the residue of the required time might be, whatever the amount of his energy or ospacity, his courage or zeal, ho had neither appeal nor redress. The reserved list was his destina tion, and that of two many instances of a similar exclu sion which excited universal regret, and enlisted the widest public sympathy. The hardship was increased by the frequent reappointment of the same officer to commands. By their death the country was debarred the advantages it expected from their experience, while it was deprived of the services of their survivors, who had been unduly and capriciously denied the opportunity of that employment for which they bad in vain reiterated the most earnest desire. The easy and obvious redress, if the present system continued in force, was to allow the time spent by a commander in actual service to qualify for the flag on the active list. (Hear.) The Navy List was surcharged with the names of men who despaired of promotion. In the Royal Artillery, Engineers, Marines, as well as regiments of the Cavalry and the line, the officers destitute of patronage and means of purchase, by perseverance in the service, could attain the highest rank, while the gray-headed lieutenant of the navy was a proverb of neglect and hopelessness, and a standing reproach to the administration of our national profession. (Hear.) He assured the committee that in offering these observations ha was actuated by no personal motive, but so long as he had a seat in that house, on whatever side be sat —and he had had a very comfortable seat on the Opposition side for about fik e and a half years—(a laugh) —he should do his utmost to maintain the welfare of the naval profession, because he believed that the prosperity e cilintrYf was inseparably bound up w ith i t. Th e bon, it Lambeth had as usual remark e d u p on the number th. member number of admirals on the list ; but those gallant men had deserved well of their country—they had fought her bat' lee in time of war, and surely no generous mind would grudge them that which they had so well earned. If it would be any satisfaction, however, to the hon. member for Lambeth, he could tell him that those brave men were being fast removed from among us, and that not many of them would m u ch longer enjoy the pittance which they had so nobly won. (Hear, hear.) Mr. TOWNSEND, who had given notice of his intention to urge upon the Government the propriety of increasing the wages of the d3ckyard labourers from 13s. to 16s, per week, said that his notice applied more particularly to vote No. but as he understood that there might be a long de lay before that vote would come on, he trusted that he might be allowed to bring before the committee the claims of the dockyard labourers upon the present occasion. The CHAIRMAN said that it would be quite irregular to discuss an item in vote No. 8 in the present stage of the estimates, and the hon. gentleman was therefore out of order. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 1 ,000,0031. on account of the wages of sea• men and marines, S WILLOUGHBY said that as the committee had cone to an agreement to waive all discussion niCiii the present occasion, it was no t hi s i n t en ti on to raise one ; b u t he gave notice that on a future occasion he should call at tention to a mode of preceding by which, as it appeared to him, the estimates were ren d ere d o f no ava il w h a t ever . In the years 18564857 the grant, including the supple mentary estimates for No. 10, naval stores, for the building of ships, &c., had been exceeded by 516,4521. without any authority from Parliament. That was a subject to which on a future occasion he should call attention ; but in the meantime he wanted an assurance from his hon. friend at the head of the Admiralty that all moneys voted for a special service should be applied to that service and to that service alone. (Hear, hear.) Sir C. WOOD said that that the circumstance to which the hon. baronet referred had occurred when he (Sir. C. Wood was at the Admiralty, and it would be his duty therefore to explain it when the hon. baronet should direct attention to it more in detail. He would only now observe that the course which was then taken was under the pro visions of an Act of Parliament, and ho had no doubt that he should he able to satisfy the house that there had boon no irregularity in the proceeding. Sir J. PA RINGTON said that the particular subject to which his hon. fri en d referred was one ent i rely b etween his hon. friend and the ric'ht hon. gentleman opposite. In answer to the a p pea l of his right hon. friend he had no hesitation in sayi ng th at he entirely concurre d i n the prin ciple that money ought to be strictly applied to the pur poses for which it was voted. Under the terms of the Ap propriation Act considerable latitude was allowed with respect to th e appropriation of grants ; b ut how f ar it might be desirable to amend the terms of that Act he was not prepared to say. Sir H. WILLOU GHBY said t h a t a c l ause h a d b een introduced i n t o th e Appropriation Ac t , — c l ause 26 , —b y whose auth or it y h e knew not, wh i ch ent i re l y upse t th e whole system of app ropr i a ti on. Mr. J. WILSON said the hon. baronet was entirely mistaken about the clause to which he referred, and which was numbered 27 and not 26, in the Appropriation Act. That clause was originally inserted in the Act long before either the hon. baronet or himself had a seat in Parliament. The Act was discussed clause by clause, and the clause alluded to was unanimously adopted. It would be in the recollection of the committee that last year's estimates were taken in two separate sessions, part before and part after the dissolution. The same thing occurred in 1841, and as it was doubted whether the estimates granted pre viously to the dissolution could he applied to the service of that year, a short Act w a s passed in the Christmas session, declaring that the votes of the two sessions should bo treated as applicable to the service of the entire year. The . clause to which the hon. baronet ref e rred was inserted in the Appropriation Act of last session. Mr. VT. WILLIAMS believed that, the clause was a very mischievous one. Ile opposed it, last session, and would have in fisted on a division if he had had any hope of success. Sir C. WOOD was anxious to prevent a false I impression being male on the public, mind by ' this discussion. In old times the whole of the naval vote was considered by the Government of the day to be appli cable to any purpose. When Sir J. Graham was First Lord of the Admiralty, in 183,), he brought the subject be ra the house and induced them to effect a change. Hon. gentlemen must know perfectly well that it was altogether impossible to estimate accurately the expenditure under each head. If the house desired to prevent any surplus being applied to any purpose but that for which it was voted, it would be necessary for them to vote much larger sums under each head than the Government thought re quisite at the time of proposing the estimates. That would be a very inconvenient course ; moreover, it was rendered unnecessary by the change effected by Sir J. Graham, which secured to the country a detailed expenditure of the sums that might be voted in excess. After a few words from Sir 11. WlLLOtioetuv, condem natory of the 26th clause of the Appropriation Act, under which any vote of last year might be applied to such pur poses as the Government might direct, Mr. BENTINCK expressed his concurrence in the ob servations of the hon. and gallant member for Christchurch w e i i sa t twe raweyd by as to the false economy pursued by this count r y f or some years past, by which millions of money had b een was t e d. He contended that the naval department tm p e o n s t si c b o l n y ld ne n s e o v n er ve b r e . efficiently oJnductediweihuntthtibl_etyn could not h n e ti s l ys t te h m e n of avy pla w ci a n s g , c li i ka vilia th n e s army, in ar inaty was, positionsdd administered which men of competent professional knowledge. He also contended that the principle of re sponsibility was not enforced against the Board of Admi ralty. There was a total want of system in the depart ment, and the responsibility was so divided that it was merely nominal. Another objection to the present system these absurdities of the system was the constant changing of the Lords of th e Ad m i ra l ty , ad soonby He hoped the time would Oaf A ll would be abolished. Mr. LINDSAY was o f opinion that th e i mpor t an t position of First Lord of the Admiralty w as b e tt er fi l l e d b y o cc ne ar arrive v change h a w n b g e e n a civilian than it would be by a naval man, because the former would probably be able, as having no professional predilections, to take larger views than the latter. He by no means wished to decry professional experience, but the First Lord of the Admiralty ee present was assisted by naval lords of great experience. There was one thing in the management of late Boards of the Admiralty which had frequently astonished him, and that was the non-em ployment of the magnificent screw ships which formed part of the naval force of the country as guardships, instead of the inferior class of ships at present so employed. Every practical man was aware that a ship deteriorated more when laid up in ordinnxy than when employed on active service, and independently even of that consideration he believed that the finest ships in the service ought to be em ployed as flagships at the various ports, to be prepared in case of any sudden emergency either for defensive opera tions or to go to sea. Ho hoped that the right hon. gentle man the First Lord of the Admiralty would take into consideration the suggestion which he had thrown out. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE quite agreed with what had fallen from the hon. gentleman who had lest addressed the house in reference to employing a better class of ships as guardships ; but he could not help sayinc , that in his opinion that branch of the naval administration of the country which related to the construction of ships was in a most anomalous condition. (Hear.) Ships for the Royal navy were constructed without any reference to those princip • lea of shipbuilding which obt a i ne d i n the merchant service, and which were proved to be the sound principles for obtaining speed combined with safety. A class of frigates had only lately been construoted of which he would take the Diadem as an example ; that ship had cost an oiler mous sum of money in the endeavours to force her through the water, a thing which, from the appearance of her, it ap peared almost impossible to effect ; but at last, at an enor mous expense, she was forced through the water at the rate of 12 knots an hour. H e considered that the plans of ships to be built ought to be submitted to a committee of prac tical men, and, even if they were laid before that house, there was enough practical experience in that house to prevent such blunders recurring as had already been CODI. mitted. He understood that a new frigate, the Orlando, was expected to prove much superior t) her predecessors, but the experiment which had been required to arrive at her model, lengthening ships 4 or 5 feet at a time instead of 50 feet, had been most costly. For his own part ho did not think that the Board of Admiralty would ever be pro perly managed by a civilian, for no civilian could be ex pected to know anything about the matter —(a laugh)—and under the guidance of • civilians a suer of money had been wasted which would have sufficed to construct two navies. (Hear, hear.) The vote was then agreed to, as were the following votes OD account :- 450,000/. towards defra • the of the victual lingprig expenses 70,0001. for the salaries of officers and the contingent expenses of the Admiralt ffi 6 ),000/. t owards y-oce. defraying the expanses of the coast sil and na va l coast volunteers. 30,000/, f or th e , salaries of officers connected with the scientific department of the navy. 70,000/. f or th e salaries of officers and the contingent expanses of her Majeste'e naval establishment at home. 10,000/. for the the naval establishments expellees of abroad. On the vote of 450 /. on account for the wages of artificers employed in the dockyard, Sir F. SMITH urged upon the right hon. gentleman at the he, c.of the eldwiralty the propriety of giving to the artific .- employed higher wages, as it was impossible to secure the services of the most efficient men without giving them an adequate remuneration. Admiral WALCOTT desired to impress the same view upon the right hon. gentleman. Mr. TOWNSEND wished to press upon the attention of the Government and of the committee the propriety of raising the pay of the labourers in our dockyards from 15s. to 15s. per week. Th© wages allowed to the same less than class of men in p r i vate esta bli s h m ents was not 18s. per week ; and w h en t h ey re membered how liberal they were in voting pens i ons an d allowances to illustrious personages, it could not sure ly be said that the country could not afford to gi ve t o a b o dy of poor man whose ser vices wal e so essenti a l i n ma i n taining the national honour, He had reason "a fair day's wage fo r a f a i r d a y's Wock." r first question he asked . on assuming . office was, what appeal to my own personal position. In consequence of hence tip to the period when the late Government re. tired. (Hear, hear.) had been donebyhispredecessors in regard to this report. the forms in making out the patents of the new Board Mr. MILNES suggested that the case which hacqbeen iHe learned that Lord Panmure,. immediately on receiv- of Admiralty the present Board did not commence their ing the draft report, had . appointed four committees to sittings until Tuesday last, and it would be idle to sup laid before the late law officers of the Crown, together with their opinion, should also be presented to the house. consider the different points referred to. He was autho- pose that any Board of Admiralty could in three days rized on the - part of the G overnment to state that the y make themselves masters of all the complicated details i B s o t f i f o s r • e their th the (Hear.) M theam, to ji r. S. FITZGERALD said the right hon. gentlemen would not hesitate to call on the house to vote such ofrettheensdeinestitmoadteelsivienrsoucihnioansmoanonner (Air. Gladstone) uttered nothing but the truth when he sums as necessaryw eree e g p to carry out the improve- months have expired me ats suggested a p four we shall be prepared, upon ( r.) . said that her Majesty's Government had no reason whaw The motion that the house at its rising do adjourn to our own roeusgphotnstiohibliet.y, Butto s in ta m te ak w in h g at t w hi e s those any papers which would give any information to ever on their own account to decline the production of Monday was then agreed to. NAVY ESTIMATES. wish to guard myself agai ns t t wo p oss ibl e misapprehen the house. Since the present government came into sions. Ido not wish to be understood n that I at all i - on the office there were he th o ught but two papers which at a ll On the mo t i on for g oin g into Committee on the Navy tend to hold out to th e h ouse th a t th ere is now came under the notice of his department. One of these Estimates, part of the Gover n m en t any fi xe d o pi n i on that it is likely mentioned that one of these men was discharg ed from Mr. W. WILLIAMS said a motion sto od in his they will be able to propose any reduction in these esti prison and placed under the British Conseil ; the other name for referring the army and navy estimates to a mates. (Hear.) I wish to reserveto the Government the most unfettered discretion, then that they y i h n o v u e s s e tig a t d e contained the instructions which were sent to 11r. Lyons, and which were to guide him in his communications with select committee. As the right hon. gentleman bad these estimates and ome downto lua the the Neapolitan government. These being the only two stated that it was only intended on the present occasion state what they think ought to be done. I deem it papers in which the present government were at all con- t o move f or certa i n sums on account, and had asked the equ a lly d ue t o th e l a t e G overnmen t t o di sav ow the least corned, any disinclination on their p art to produce these house not to enter upon the general discussion, he would intention of implying, from having mentioned these papers could not arise from any fear of the result to not bring forward his motion at . this time. He wished figures, any censure on them, or of leading the house to them from the production of these papers. The only suppose, from the limited experience I have as yet had, objection that existed to the production of these papers to state, however, that the estimates for the army and that there is the the least reason to think that either with was that they would really p ut the house in possession nav y were the largest that had ever been submitted to re g ardz to the amount of force or the amount of votes of uo information which th e y were not already possessed Parliament since the termination of the French war, with the late Government have been negligent of the inte of. With regard to the production of the opinion of the the exception of the two or three years of the Crimean rests of the country. With this brief statement, I beg law officers of the crown, he believed that would be , to submit to the committee the first vote, which is, the suite contrary to parliamentary usage. (Hear.) I NGTON expressed a hop that some- number of men for the navy. The right hon. baronet however, on looking over the papers he found there were Is, waGr.ene(rHaelacro, hpeßari. concluded by moving that 59,380 men and boys be ern any which would give furth er information to the house, thin g would be done to raise the compensation given to Di ved in the sea and coastguard service for four months Lei Majesty's government would be most willing to Pro - the staff officers for the deprivation of servants. The ending the 31st July, including 15,000 Royal Marines. duce them. (Hear.) sum of is. a-day in England and is. 6d. in the colonies Sir C. NAPIER was happy to find that the late Go- Lord 3. RUSSELL regretted that the answer of the was too little for the labour nec essar y to take care of the vernment had at last come to their s e n s e s, a nd i n c reased how. gentleman was so unsatisfactory. (Hear.) The the number of men in the navy, for he could assure the question was one which could not then be fair l y die- horses. He hoped the Secretary for War would take house that last year Parliament had too much reduced cussed, but they could discuss what were the means by the matter into consideration and raise the amount, and that force. The suggestion which he made last year, which they could obtain information to guide the judg also give the option of employing soldier servants when civilians could not be found, and which was then pooh-poohed, to put the blockshipe meet of the house. (Hear.) The hon. gent leman said, in an efficient state, was now to be adopted. He would and said quite accurately and in accordance with The house then went into Committee on the Navy suggest that somechange relative to the coast volunteers precedent, that it was not usual to p roduce the opinion was desirable. There was a distinction between them of the law officers of the crown. But nothing was more Estimates. and the Coastguard. The Coastguard were all seamen, usual than to produce the letter of the Secretary of State Sir J. PAKINGTON said,—l rise to move the first but the coast volunteers only entered their names to be or the Under Secretary of State, which was generally a mere vote on the Navy Estimates, but before doing so I beg called on for temporary service, and were not fit to man echo of the opinion of the law officers. There were two to express my acknowledgments to the hon. member the British navy. He regretted to see by the papers important questions involved in this matter. One was for Lambeth for the courteous manner in which he that the house and the country were told we c ould as to the capture of the Cagliari, whether it was made in Neapolitan waters or on the high seas, and the other as has waived the motion of which he had given blockade an enemy's ports in the course of a week. It to threStr e atment of the prisoners. As to the first of notice, and which be had a perfect right t o bring was all very well to talk in that way, but they might depend upon it we could do nothing of the sort these questions, the hon. gentleman informed them t h at forward. I hope also that the urgency of the occa - When ships were manned they must be disciplined, ;lid in his in the opinion of the law officers whatever claim the Ilion will induce the honourable member for Dover (I.lr. opinion coast volunteers were not fit for the service. Ha Sardinian Government might found on the fact that the Osborne) to waive the course which he indicated in his would also suggest the propriety of increasing the mein capture of the vessel took place on the high seas, and speech he would take on going into Supply unless some , ber of marines from 15,000 to 20,000. There was great not on the waters within the Neapolitan jurisdiction, the statement was given of the policy of the Government. difficulty in getting proper soldiers, as was evident from 3 itish Government could found no claim on it. If the The bon. gentleman has been of late years so little in the the miserable children of 15 or 16 years who were en opinion went to this, that the vessel was a Sardinian, habit of addressing the house—(hear, and laughter)— listed and were to be seen daily in the streets. He did and under that flag, the British Govt rnment could make that he now seems to have forgotten what is the usual not know why, but the army was not so popula r a ser vo claim on her, he (Lord J. Russell) fully assented ; but mode of designating the members to whom he wishes to vice as the marines. The marines were much better if the Sardinian Government had a claim to the vessel, allude, and therefore I had some difficulty in making out men, and they could take the seaports, thereby relieving and if it contained two British subjects who had been who the gentlemen was to whom he referred a short time troops of the duty and being ready at once to go on captured and detained in direct violation of the law of no' (A laugh.) lam inclined to believe, however, board ship in the event of war, when their places co uld nations, no one could persuade him that the Br itish Go- that he did me the honour to refer to myself, and to some be filled by the militia. Lord Panmure had said that ho vernment ought not to support the Sardinian Govern - observations which I made elsewhere. The hon. meat in its demands, and bring the pow er, the resources, gen- had no objection to give up the seaports to the mail . ioe, and the name of Great Brea nto th e a id of the weaker tleman had little ground, I think, for making the com - if the House of Commons thought proper to increa se the plaint that the present Ministry had made no statement number. He would not support the hon. membe r for state. (Hear.) With regard to the other question — the treatment of the two prisoners — he must say that, even whatever of their policy. That statement has been made Lambeth in his mo ti o n for a c o mmitt e e on th e e stimates, supposing the capture to be lawful, the treatment of the most distinctly in another place, by the noble earl at the but he should rejoice to see an a ddre s s to h er M aj est y two erg nears went far beyond what was necessary for head of the Government. A. very full statement has also voted, praying fora commission to inquire into the manage safe custody ; the time had been unnecessarily protracted, been made by my right hon. friend the member for went of the navy. Until they gave up the syste m of in and their treatment had been unnecessarily harsh, severe, Buckinghamshire. I availed myself of a similar oppor- creasing the number of ships without any cause in one and cruel. Even an uric the Neapolitan Govern- likewise to make a statement, and other members year, and raying them off in the year following, it was meat had a prima fac pp ie case for their imprisonment, it g of the Government have done the shme. (Hear.) I really impossible they could have a thorough and I?.ficient ' l evy. was not justified in treating them in such a way as that think, therefore, that if my right hon. friend (Mr. Ships were only fitted out for three years, when th e y Disraeli) had now given us a repetition ef what has been could just as well be fitted out for five years, and the one had lost his health and the other had lost his reason. so fully made known, the hon. member for Dover would waste of iaoney was not so much upon men and provisions The right hon. gentleman had expressed confidence as to have been the first to complain so great a waste of the as upon materials. The First Lord of the Admiralty had the result of the trial ; he (Lord J. Russell) had no con • time of the house. (Hear.) The state of public business 10 councillors—five at Somerset-house and five at the Ad. , fidence in the justice ef their treatment before the trial ' renders it desirable we should have some grant of money miralty. Those gentlemen, whether from jealousy o r some nor in the justice of the court before which they were to on account. The house has already been made aware of other cause, seldom agreed, and of the number were ro be brought. (Hear.) He knew perfectly well it was the necessities for doing so, and I accordingly rise to move duced the work would be done a great deal better, and net an unusual course for the Neapolitan government, the first of a series of votes fur the navy. I have to state, at less expense. He would not throw any obstacles in the when it found any spirit of independence or regard for in the first place, that the votes on account with which I way of the estimates being voted ,• but, on the contrary, law on the part of a judge, to change that judge, either shall conclude are founded entirely on the estimates of the would do everything possible to keep the navy in proper previous to or during the trial, and he would not be late Government. My right hon. friend stated the rea- strength, because he did not think that affairs at the surprised if the Government, wishing these men to be son why it is essential that we should ask the house for present moment were in a state, to justify any negligence. convicted, should find a judge not likely to do so, that this vote immediately ; but I hope the house will bear in Mr. W. WILLIAMS thought the present Govern he should be changed to one more subservient. mind that I have succeeded too recently to the arduous went were taking too long a time in requiring four His noble friend, the late head of the Government, did and important office which I hold, to be able to come for. months before introducing their own estimates. In not defend the Neapolitan government ; and whatever ward at once on the part of the Government with a die- allowing them to have this vote without opposition, he course the new Government might think it necessary to tinct and definite opinion with regard to the estimates wished it to be distinctly understood that when he came adopt, he (Lord J. Russell) hoped they were not ready of our predecessors for the maintenance of the navy. to propose to refer the estimate to a select committee he to make an admission that they considered everything (Hear, hear.) I am bound to admit that I have did not expect to be met by the argument that the house dons by the Neapolitan government was in strict accord received every possible courtesy from the right hon. gen- bad already voted a third part of them. He had always once with justice, and that it was necessary to enforce tleman the member for Halifax (Sir C. Wood), my im- been an advocate for maintaining the efficiency of the on them those principles of jestice whist& our Govern mediate predecessor in office, and that my right hon. navy ; and the conduct of the men under Captain Sir W. meat and other governments considered it due to them friend has given me every explanation that was necee- Peel showed they were capable of performing the moat selves to maintain. He hoped that the hon. gentleman nary to enable me to proceed with the duties the his glorious achievements. (Hear, hear.) Theexpenditurefer opposite and the noble lord at the head of the Foreign charge of which I have undertaken. Bnt, notwithstand- the army and navy alone was 6,000,0001. more than when office would lay on the table of the house all the papers which it was possible to produce, including the despatch ing that assistance, if I were to state upon the present the present Government were last in office. The number of Count Cavour and any from Sir J. Hudson in sup- occasien the policy of the Government, instead of fulfil- of officers had increased of late years out of all proportion port of it. Before he eat down he wished to refer to ling the duty which it is incumbent upon me to discharge, with the number of men. For instance, in 1346 there were the request made to him by the hon. member for North I should be guilty of an act of folly and presumption only 153 admirals, in 1851 there were 235, in 1857 316, Warwickshire to put off the Oaths Bill, which was fixed which could not fell to deserve and to receive the cen- and in the present estimates there were 341 ; about an for Wednesday. That was the only day he had, and he curs of the house, considering how elaborate and im- admiral and a half for every ship in commission. Oat certainly should not postpone the committee. (Hear) portant those navy estimates. (Hear.) Undoubtedly, it of the 341 14 were employed in active service, and The hon. gentleman might make his motion at any other would be in my power to come down to this house to half of them were employed as port admirals or super stage of the bill, but he certainly would bring it for- declare that we had adopted the estimates of the late intendents of dockyards. The China war could not ward on Wednesday. Government for the whole year, and to shelter myself be any great cause of increased expense , for onl y Mr. RIDLEY sa id th a t w ith regar d t o th e p ro d uc - and the Government under the course which the late a few additional sm a ll steame r s had been emp loyed. tion of the opinion of th e l aw o ffi cers , be m i g ht rem i n d Government adopted. But we do not think that this The Cit y of Canton had been taken b y one regim a e f °l n d course.the hon. gentleman opposite (M r . S. Fitz gera ld) th a t would be either an advisable or proper course. Conei- , a few marines ;in fact the French claimed to hav e b a d when the China papers were laid on the table, the opi- darin g the p resent state of p ublic affairs and the demand the most important share in it. Looking to the result nion of the Queen's Advocate was also given. upon the re.ouroes of the navy which the state of affairs which was obtained the estimate for materials was enor- Mr. B. OSBORNE (who, on rising, was received with in China and India has created—Considering, too, what mous ; there must be the g rossest corru p tion or mis all parties in this house must admit, the necessity on management somewhere. He had received letters from derisive cheers and laughter from all sides of the house) persons in the dockyards, in a position—whose names, said he did not wish to stand between the house and the every ground of prudence and propriety that the navy at business of the evening. He agreed with the right home and in our own ports should be maintained in an of course, he was not at liberty to disclose—to know all hon. gentleman the member for Oxfordshire that until effective state, the house will think that the Government about these matters, which showed a disgraceful eye the papers were produced they were not in a state to are only taking a proper course when we announce our tem of waste and an entire ab s ence of all superintend discuss the question ; and he was far from blaming the intention to take votes on account for four months, ence. No less than 7,000,0001. had been voted fel present Government, but he must be allowed to express founded upon the estimates of the late Government. At stores and dockyard wages since the termination of the kis surprise and regret that the two questions put by his the later period of the session I shall move the remain- French war, and not a single ship had been destroyed ing estimatos, and I will then state the views of her Ma. in that period by an enemy. If the present First Lord _ hon. friend the member for Richmond and the member . for the King's County had not been treated with the j est y 's Ministers, anti move those estimates upon the re would look w e ll i n to thi s pa r ti cu l ar ma tt e r h e wo uld courtesy vouchsafed to the hon. member for Bridport. ponsibility of the existing Government. This is the render most essential service to the public. He was ' He did not think it would have been at all unnatural course which we think it our duty to take, and which bound, in justice to the late First Lord to say that these when a Government came into power, or rather into we are more inclined to follow on account of th e ver y estimates were tho rough l y intelligible , but he pitied the office—(laughter)—under such peculiar circumstances, large estimates that we find were prepared by t he late g allant Secretar y f or War who had to deal with the if some account had b een Government. It wouldbeinconsisteet;with the anno unce- arm y estimat e s, for a greater mass of coefasiom he had policy which they i n t en d e d to ven to the house of pursue. the He believed such went I now make to go into details, bunl will state the never seen. had always b een th e case , even w hen the head of the leading points which justify the course w hich I propose to Sir C. WOOD th an k e d th e h on . gen tl eman f or th e Government happened to have a seat in another place ; take on the part ofehe government. We observe not unna. compliment—tho ug h h e cou ld no t t a k e t o hi mse lf t h e turally the difference between the amount of the navy credit for the undoubtedly clear and intelligible shape in far any explanation of policy given them was not coasts turally for 1858-9, prepared by the late Government, which the estimates bad been laid on the table. He tutionally before this house. (Hear.) He was much and the amount of the same estimates in 1852-3, when quite approved the course which the Government pro surprised to see the hon. gentleman resume his seat my colleagues and myself were in office during the Go• posed to take with regard to the estimates. Of course without giving any answer, even to the amiable language vernment of Lord Derby. In the year 1852-3 the gross it was (pita impossible that the right bon gentleman which he so much insisted on, to the questions of the amount of the estimates for the service of the navy was o pp osite could have bad time to make himself acquainted hon, members for Richmond and King's County. The 6,705,74 d/. I find that the gross amount of the navy with all the details of the estimates or even to form an hon. gentleman had intimated his intention to call for a estimates for 1853-9, including the packet service, is opinion on his own responsibility of what they ought to large vote en credit and asked for the utmost forbear 10,128,6151., the difference between the two years being be. The estimates for the year ought certainly to be since of the house. As an hon. member he (Mr. B. Osborn) would give every assistance in carrying on 3,422,869 i., or in round figures not less than 50 per cent, brought f erward on the fell and clear responsibility public business, but at the same time, when the hon. lam quite aware that there are many circumstances thy Government, and under the circumstances the of y had gentleman made such a request, he thought it would which explain this large difference between the navy done quite right in proposi ng on ly vote on account at have been but respectful to the house, and still more to estimates of 1852.3 and those of 1858-9. a In the fir s t the, present m omen t. F or the estimate-', as they the country, if he had given some programme of his in - place the war with Russia led to an enormous increase at p resent stood, he held himself responsible, and tention before he asked for money. He would not press of the navy estimates. lam bound next to refer to the when the estimates for the whole the subject at that moment, as the hon. gentleman had war i with China, or I might rather call it our quarrel forward ho should be happy togive year the were brought Government l already spoken twice, bat b,sfore he asked for money he ''''ctri2 Commissione rtheseest .l: eh t , which T has also led to a great all the aseieance is his power o pass the would have time to make up his mind as to what his ~ini;ideatshee great increamseaoefshsteamships,house will also bear in supposing that they were such as theknowle m d ' e a w w hl s future policy would be; as yet the house knew nothing incurred in the (Lek arc's ite the great expenses he had acquired told him were necessary knowledge the wiseq , eence of that in- p of it. They had just heard that the Government public service. He hoped, however that t' and the recent Y trau f ofeney would be crease, to he Admiralty,eer the Coastguard service brought forward at the earliestpossible• had succeeded to the inheritance of the noble lord's period alter from the Customs ,or t thises which diti go in a great Easter. (Hear, hear.) foreign policy with regard to Naples, but he did not degree to account lB t ..o- enormous If, erence between l Admiral WALCOI'T said that he had heard with know how far the house would be satisfied with that. the estimates of a. 3 andhowever, 185 - 9 Icon- great Boo satisfaction the proposal now made to augment by (Hear, hear.) As far as he could see some painful [Ms. the table for pare the estimates now upon conceptions were likely to arise with Nesples. The right of 185 - 8 here with he d uthhe present number of seamen and boys, nor could tho estimates for the present year i - ; ; again o t the ready acquiescence of the house, which had hon. gentleman had taken credit for putting au end towhic h I think imposes upon always been willingly I find a very large increase, painful misconceptions, which, however, had existed in his own fertile imagination, for until the ' right hon. - me the duty of carefully investigating its causes. (Hear, country demanded a similar increase. (Hear, hear.) At hear.) I will first take the difference in the number of this moment our force at sea was unworthy of our pre tleman went on the hustings at Aylesbury he M ge ß n . Osborne) was not aware of a misconceptions ( r. men. The number of men voted fur the current year, tensions to be the first maritime Power in Euro pe. with regard to France. It would ny be but becoming existing 1357-s, was, — officers, seamen, and boys for the fleet, Without doubt our docks and harbours presented an the right hon, gentleman when he asked in 31,000; for surveying, store, and troop ships, 20,000 ; imposing array, and we had stages with gunboats • r n jos.- fora supply to be prepared to give some programme for the Coastguard service, 8,700 ; making a total of ling each other, a magnificent fleet, comprising sailing of what his intended measures were. Until he did so the house ought not to 38,700 men. To these may be added 15,000 marines, and screw ships of unrivalled strength, capabilities and grant one shilling. (Hear, hear.) It was his intention and the estimates submitted tot the house by the late speed ; yet we had been lately unable to furnish t;ans to use the utmost forbearance, and the most amiable Government this time twelvemonth amounted to s. ports for a few thousand troops without having recourse language towards the government. He believed the right gross total of 53,700 men. At a lat r period of the to the merchant navy. It was only last year that he had hen. gentleman who represented Buckinghamshire would, session, however, in the month of July, the late G o . recommended as indispensable the maintenance at sea of if he had it his own way, be as good a reformer, and as vernment came down and proposed a supplementary not less than 12 sail of the line, fully manned and offi advanced a liberal as any man in the house. If he could estimate of 2,000 men, which made a gross total of cerod, in the highest state of efficiency and preparation, only get rid of three or four of his colleagues, incladine 55,700 men for the year. In the estimates now on because it would afford the immediate means on the most the head of the administration, he would be sure to 017- the table for 1858-8 the number of men is very con- sudden emergency of supplying twice that number of . tain the support of the liberal party, but to do so he aiderably in increase of that estimate. The number ships for the service of the country, independently of should considerably weed his own party. There was aof o ffi cers, seamen, and boys for the fleet is put down at frigates and smaller vessels. At a period when science . right hon. gentleman (Sir J. Pakingtoo) sitting next to 35,000 ; for surveying, troop, and store ships the num- was making fresh advances, hitherto unexampled, and the right hon. gentleman whom he was reported to have ber is the same as last year—namely, 2,000 ; but for other maritime Powers were strengthening their navies converted to his opinions on the Jew Bill, and if he Coastguard service the number is increased from 5,700 in proportion, no caution could be too great in a timely would, through him, give the house some assurance that to 7,330. The number of marines is the same, viz., consideration of the construction of our ships before they 15,000, for both years, but the general result of the were commenced. The position—one of the higieret when he called on it for a grant of money on credit he number of men proposed . by the late Government t o b e importance and responsibility—of the Surveyor of the g rttt be prepared to give a statement of the intentions I I voted for next year is 59,330 men. The difference in Navy, demanding as it did the display of grea t a bilit y, . ehe government he II be re ( r. Osborne) would p . pared to listen a nd grant men between the original estimate of the two years and a judicious ex oinof pan wure the public re grant the money, but if that was not done he would a therefore stands thus :—Thera is an increase of 4,900 in quired that it should be accom • money, feel it his ourahle gentleman . duty, when the right hon the vote for officers, seamen, and boys for the fleet and Board of Admiralty, by which palsied by a seat at the opportunity and autholity attention' tori came down to ask fur a vote, to call "C d an addition to the oastgnar of 1,680, being a gross would be afforded him to the „rev,represent his opinions with meat had succeed instances under which the govern- increase of 5 680 men for next year as compared with freedom and cogency. The navy, from its peculiar cha t° place himself ored to office. He should be sorry 'estimatefor thecurrentmeter, required '- ' position. He felt thatthe right hon, gentleman in that the original odo July the year. lf, however, of rewards . ' ater-seeing policy and a generous rust, ni we add the men . v voted difference betweenshould encourage those officers who came into power ender when s the right hon. gentlemanexhibited l•They ears will be 3,630 men. lam bound to add zee in acquiring the knowledgeof • such cir their profes difficult task for him to decidecristances it must be a , the two ye tmoment this increase ofmen is, • sion and in the dischar eof its arduous right hon. gentleman who sat n on his measures. The that at the present moment this increase of men is, in sion and in the discharge of its arduous duties, and merit atituenta it was not hum eat next hini hid told his conS my opinion, absol necessary—("Hear, hearl'n' should constitute the only ela r im uou te s duties, and merit atituents it was not humanly o ext . hi m had told his con- fromray ' nd I will show it to the in , insure fidelity in the seamen they must promotion, sho Sir C. Napier)—and of show a scrupul then gentlemen coming intoP offset for twelve or thir-and boys house u adherence to every promise and discrimination with this way :—Tbe total number men voted o blinds. He (Nfr. Osborne) would be e° to make up theirlib s r l• el. Economy and retrenchment last year for the service of the navy, including the sup- s a ity in reward, content if the right Ilan. gentleman would only tell them h ' elementary vote of July, amounted to 35,000. The be employed in careful forethought before incurring ex . humanly possible he make up his 'w en it Was they were compatible with the Integ ..sl r could - pease, and only as h Po icy. If that was not done, be Should eels in commission by the return of last February was rity of the national defsnces. The navy of England enllTlTHation with his right hon. Ashton under-L friend the member for 35,915. So th a t the number of men in commissioned could never be reduced with impunity. Neither gunnery _ m ,,,,,,, anuint.___ _ , yne, who knew so well how to draw ships w as 915 in excess of the number voted by Parlia- nor navigation was the acquirement of a few months, find .tinl klaughter) —and see ment du r i ng th e year. The marines, however, fell short and the landsman was only by long experierce ripened make e e seegi , f f . whether he could not that id o orein g the lord in anoth e r The at rright,t t , hon. gentleman to' of th e num b er vo t e d by Parliament, and the general re- into the practical seaman. If the fleet were undermanned the house or th-eir' c,,ita statement made by a noble suit is that, including seamen and marines, the number there would be risk, and if there were ignorance of their The subject then ° t t e t i , Y „,* ea and ought not to satisfy of men last February exceeded by 860 the number voted profession on the part of the officers there might be a b • SANITARY s-f a, - -i - i,... rg ., y Parliam en t du r i ng the year. If, however, the nurn- sad reverse. Here ho might remind the committee that bars were •.. r Mr. LAURIE, who had ol;;:n -r a z ARMY, raised ea the fall complement, so that all the in order to fit out the Baltic fleet they had to strip the ships in t , l call the attention of the houit e n C e Z h 'it his intention. the commission were fully manned, in addition to Coattguard service of men, and when they bad turned commissioners on the sanitary atAte e. oFZi a ,„"P"t of he I,s &re rn ee e n n t excess h of 860 men, we should still require the landsmen into good iailsrs they turned them adrift Gaily to the portion that refers to the Fo o i - o ThY, espe_ \ hors voted , inn s h oeing a total excess, above the men and on the Herds at Portsmouth, Plymouth, and Chatham, Wed in the metropolis, said that nicer he haZ h ' et"r- I e,timat,..__ the . a 7 i s of 2,216. (Hear.) Well, sir, the to carry their energy, their zeal, and their vigour, it report lately presented he had visited po , to), : ,,, PP : 4l t :L i:t \ f l . o or ren ,, t yea u rho t y b a l n e I_2 , :e c e p R a s r ( e_ d f by the late Government might be, into the service of any other nation which for himself. He found 20 men hue. now i! these eeti ouhte , e .„.., only 2,000 men there- would find them employment. We wanted, not ships, Barracks to judge ...Lod b e agreed to, a room. The air was so vitiated "‘ 1:"°"lea13'1°11 we and if the ships bat the living hearts of oak—the gallant tars, to quicken dleal to in a small _ ~ ‘2l,q „ set ., " foil twinned beat a retreat. He was, however, esevernmeee fat 7 1 ,7: .th.r , the 'P we should still the mighty mass ; but poor Jack was disregarded when that he was glad to n estimates of the f late he was not wanted, and he was di-couraged when they was far pre f era bl e to others. lie 1 the requirementsmea r , ot . this or tu,:iar,:x"'' bu .to show that the should have bidden him hearty welcome in the name of informed the room t ' Since ort must attract i convinced that the statemen sin p. e into the , l of money proposed t o i„„-,:-,:a. Wi ti ,, ea ra ra ewhat short of England. (Hest., hear.) He warned them to be wise he OM I mated expenditure of the - ' l ' 1 44 rt that theamount in . ~,__ the attention of the authorities.. tleman the I • e prone -,.._ -..- th e ....• ti me and to show a more generous consideration, a right lion. gen the packet ' • ing - wiser house he had learned that the ~E , , _ ... _B, w iser th„, po li cy, and a more far-seeing system as regarded Herbert) intended to bri , n" • the table ' ' estlmates on exacted th' • 'ht , r member for Wiltshire (I.fr. S. He would 1 8 58 0, 6 L./ 10,128,615/ is very eeghs ,n_ose total endnl::eiv.Y. Justice required imperatively one reform ; forward a motion on the subject. He, therefore, . i n g to, for .15 , a ,, __• ~ bein g a ;' „ x ;,Y.:•raontit- tic. , htwged the First Lord of the Admiralty's atten to express his ci n•of 051 I resent 956, 2 . have mentioned these"" th e In . wlatle he p ressed it. He alluded to the di-do hearten not further trespass on the house than , • pr year . Government figures, e " neeresse, Homed to stand in ,to show that the present are only takin g a "" 3 Pedby 1 h prevalent in the navy thatno ffi u - o cer n viction that no parsimony would be a e when, under pressure of our pe ;4; 1...0., we —,. e.., r e., w, Lfluence or unable + any sum , o command official favour ree seeg of Th. ,utertaia a ' the way, but that they would cheerfully vote proper course vote supply for four months si that might be required to secure the comfort of the only ask the house to pot, on ti,,,, ,m in, Durableh.n e a asonable hope of attaining the rnbl i Government. I will once more N .,1, 0 11 ,,t velthtt a mbitio n —t h e - soldiers. the estimates of the late ~•., coteuxt . • At pr„eut it e re At of admiral hi D. calptea _ was confined to those Gen. PEEL could assure the hon. gentleman that the ' dari ng four years in war to believe that had there lately been no change of Govern ment an additional 3s. per week would have been granted to these hard-working operatives ; and he therefore ap pealed to the present Alinistay whether they would not fitly inaugurate their advent to power by doing an act of justice to an humid° bat deserving class ? The men com plained that they had been deprived of a superannuation pension of 151. per annum which they formerly enjoyed ; and they asked why it was that they were the only class of Government employes to whom this advantage was denied': At present one or two Lords of the Admiralty walked round Woolwich Dockyard periodically, and picked out annually five or six, or at the most seven poor labour ers broken down with ago and infirmities, and recommended them for a pension of 121. a-year. Bat this was an entirely voluntary and spontaneous act, there being no regular sys tem of superannuation on which the meu could depend. It might be said that the measure he recommended would cost the nation 20,0001. per annum ; but he confidently believed that the public would not grudge such a sum to maintain these poor men and their families iii comparative decency and comfort. He regretted that it was not com petent for him to divide the house on this subject ; but he trusted that the appeal which he now made would be gene rously responded to. Sir J. PAKINGTON could give no distinct pledge, but he would take the whole subject into consideration, and should be ready to do anything for these men which could be done consistently with the interests of the pubiic ser vice. He reminded hon. ma:abers that all these discus sions might be renewed on a subsequent occasion, and sug gested thatno further questions should be raised, but that the house should be allowed to proceed as early as possible to the consideration of the Indian Loan Bill. (Hear.) Mr. B. OSBORNE said that this was merely a question of demand and supply, and it ought not to be settled either at the Admiralty or any where else on any other principles than those of sound political economy. The late Board had no intention even of considering the subject, and he hoped that a similar course would be followed by the pre sent one. If the right hon. baronet held out any hopes of an increase of wages ho would be overwhelmed with petitions from all the dockyards. Sir J. PAKINGTON could assure the hon. member for Dover that he had not intended to hold out any hopes. His promise of consideration referred rather to the question of superannuation than to that of waves, and ho had care fully guarded himself by intimating that in whatever he did he must have regard to the interests of the public service. Now, he was afraid that if men could be obtained for 135., it would be rather hard to prove that it was for the interest of the public service to pay them 163. Mr. WHITE was quite ready to accept the inexorable rules of political economy, if they were applied in all cases; but, without disparaging the labours of the late Secretary of the Admiralty, he had no doubt that a person could have been found who would discharge the duties of that office, he would not say as well as they were discharged by the hon. member for Dover, but certainly for much lower wages. (A laugh.) If the strict rules of political economy ware not applied in the higher branches of her Majesty's service, he did not sea why they should be so rigidly enforced in the lower ones. Sir E. PERRY said that the hon. member for Dover had in his remarks done great injustice to his late chief, because during the last year the wages of the labourers were increased Is. a week. When these wages were origi nally fixed they were rather above those of agricultural labArers. Since then there had been a general increase in the rate of wages, and they were now below the rate paid to the same class of workmen. Mr. W. S. LINDSAY agreed with the hon. member for Dover that this was a mere question of demand and supply, awl ought n)t to be considered upon any other prin ciples. General CODRINGTON thought the question was whe ther the wages were high enough to induce the best class of labourers to do the work of the Government. He doubted whether that question could be answered in the affirmative. Sir J. iILPHINSTONE admitted that the Government could get plenty of men to enter their service for 13e. a week, but they would not obtain the best labour for that money. In addition to their low rate of wages it should be recollected that the families of the dockyard labourers were tied to certain spots where the local burdens, in con sequence of the Government not contributing to the sup port of the poor, were excessively high. He would take another opportunity of referring to the subject. Mr. STUART supported the vote. The rate of wages had fallen considerably during the last few months, and if 13s. a-week was deemed sufficient a year ago there was no reason for increasing it now. Mr. GLADSTONE hoped the Committee would look with jealousy upon applications from the representatives of particular towns for an increase of wages among their constituents. It had been said that the Government paid 13a. a-week and did not get good work for it. Were they quite sure that they could improve the quality of the work merely by raising the rate of wages ? It seemed to him that the difficulty lay deep in the nature of Government establishments. A labourer was apt to go into one of those establishments with very different sentiments and feelings from those with which he entered into the service of a private owner. When he went to serve a private indivi dual he knew that he must stand upon his own merits, and that his work would fetch its real value but no more. On the other hand, ho obtained admission to a Government establishment generally by solicitation ; the whole course of his ideas was dislocated, so to speak, by the manner in which ho got there, and it was wrong to suppose that by merely raising the rate of wages we could secure a supply of good labour. How that dif faulty was to be overcome he would not undertake to say ; but he believed the wise and practical conclusion would be to have no Government establishments whatever for manu factures, except in cases where they were absolutely neces sary. No Government could carryon manufactures except at a great disadvantage, and he trusted, without meaning the slightest reproach to hon. members, whose duty it was to stand up manfully fur the interests of their constituents, the House would receive with a jealousy proportioned to their fidelity and zeal the representations which they made in favour of increasing the wages of their local friends. (Hear. hear.) Sir F. BARING was sorry to say that he had often in curred no small degree of unpopularity by telling his con stituents that the members for dockyard towns did more harm than good by pressing for au increase of wages. He was not surprised that an ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer hod met the demand for such an increase by saying " Dis miss all your dockyard labourers, and get the work douo by private contract." Such, lie was convinced, would be the result if the expanse of the dockyards were very con siderably augmented. At the same time the dockyard men did their work fairly and well, and during the late war their zeal and energy were conspicuous. (Hear, hear.) The vete was then agreed tu. A vote of 20,000/., ou account, for the wages of artificers, labourers, and others employed in establishments abroad, was also agreed to. On the vote of 600,0001. for defraying the expenses of naval stores for the building, repair, and outfit of the fleet, and for the purchase of steam machinery, Sir C. NAPIER said, we were now building the finest fleet in the world, but there was one point to which he wished to direct the attention of the Government. It was a fact—a fact which the present Emperor of the French was one of the first to discover—that an iron-sided ship was far more capable of resisting shells than a timber one. He believed that a frigate of twenty guns lined with iron four inches thick could in a very short time destroy a three-decker of 100 pine. We had not yet dis covered any means of preventing iron ships from fouling, and he could not help thinking that the Government ought to offer a handsome reward for the accomplishment of that object. The vote was agreed to. A vote of 250,0,10/. for new works, improvements, and repairs was pasted without discussion. The following sums was also taken on account :-- 20,0001. for medicines and medical stores. 30,0001. for miscellaneous services. 300,0001. for half-pay, reserved half-pay, and retirement to officers of the Navy and Royal Marines. 200,0001. for military pensions and allowances. 70,000/. for civil pensions and allowances. 250,000/. for conveyance of troops. 40i,0001. for the packet service. ARMY ESTIMATES. - - - - • - General PEEL, who was very indistinctly heard in the reporters' gallery, said that in accordanse with thi.i agree ment into which the house had entered he should merely ask the committee to vote the whole number of men for the army, and a portion of the money upon each of the other votes. The vote for the number of men might per haps require some short explanation. The number he should ask the committee to vote on the present occasion, exclusive of the Indian establishment, was 130,135, as against 126,796 voted last year, showing an increase of 3,339 men. But this by no means showed the true state of the army. The total strength of Her Majesty's forces, in cluding the troops in India, had increased from 156,993 men in last year to. 22'2,874 required for the present year ; the increase being 65, eBl. This arose from the number of troops sent from this country to India. The force charge able to the East India Company, including the depots at home, would be for this year 92,739 as against 30,197 last year, showing au increase on the East India Company's establishment of no less than 62,542 men. There had been sent to India last year, when the India establishment was voted, four regiments of cavalry and 24 regiments of infantry, and there wire now there 11 regiments of cavalry and 60 regiments of infantry. There had been sent out seven additional regiments of cavalry and 36 additional battalions of infantry, thus re ducing the force of the home establishment by that num ber. It was intended to meet the withdrawal of that force by raising 26 new battalions of infantry, and two additional regiments of cavalry, and this accounted for the increase in the present year of 3,330 men over the number voted in the last year, for though there was a reduced number of regiments the strength of each had been in creased. He did not know what the increase was in the cavalry, but in the infantry it was from 840 to i5O. It was, however, an extraordinary fact that though the number ofmen was increased the payment was absolutely less than in last year. This arose from the number of regiments sent to India, for the pay of the colonels then became chargable to the East India Company, and the new battalions had no colonels, while the number of the non commissioned officers was not increased but diminished. Therefore there was a decrease this year in the whole sum to be voted for pay and allowances of 706,9901. He was happy to say that the recruiting was going on at present time in a more favourable manner than lie could by possi bility have anticipated. (Hear, hear.) During the time of the Crimean war he believed that the greatest number of enlistments in any ono month was about 6,000, but in the last month the enlistments had amounted to 7,500. (Hear.) There had been enlisted, including recruits for the East India Company, at the rate of 6,000 men a month, snaking 36,000 enlistments during the last six months. (Roar.) The gallant general concluded by moving the vote for the number of men. Mr. W. WILLIAMS expressed his surprise that after the enormous sums of money voted for barracks the accom modation in them should be exceedingly defective. If the money had been expended honestly all the bairacke which were required to accomesodate the army during the last war ought now to be in an efficient state. Mr. ALCOCK said it was, he b :lieved, generally under stool that the East India Company supplied bedding and clothing gratuitously to the Queen's troops employed in India, but be had beet informed by a relative that in some cases the only clothing supplied consisted of two linen cape, while the s ldiers were required to pay half thecost of their bedding_. Sir J. TRELAWNY complained that the brigade of Guards, which was a very strong force, was entirely exempted from colonial duty. It was suspected that the reason of this exemption was that the officers of the Guards were more or less connected with the aristocracy, and wore appointed by the colonels of tho regiments o f Guards, and not upon the responsibility of the War De partment, He thought it desirable that battalions of the Guards should be sent to Madras, Calcutta, and Bombay, as the young o ffi c e r s of the brigade would than have a l ; opportunity of seeing something of the world, and of acquainting themselves with their professional duties. He thought, also, that such a change would be beneficial to the health of the men, for he believed that from lone resi dence in London they contracted bad habits, which might in some measure account for the ill health that was attri buted to the state of the barracks. He saw no reason why he aristocratic officers of the Guards, brave and. intelli- gent as they undoubtedly were, should be placed in a po sition which gave them more rapid promotion than could be attained by persons of a lower grade in society. A cap tain in thepuards at once became a lieutonant•colonel, and he (Sir J. Trelawny) was informed that the:pay and allow ance of an officer of the rank amounted to nearly 500/. a-year. Independently of the advantages in respect so pay, the officers of the Guards obtained rapid promotion ; and during the war in the Crimea many of the higher military appointments were held by Guardsmen. He hoped the gallant-general at the head of the War Department would bring the appointment of officers of the Guards under his own authority, and would not countenance a system which was prejudicial to the interests of the service. General CODRING TON thought it was most desirable to retain in London such a corps as the Guards which was specially suited to the performance of military duties in the metropolis. He knew that, in several cases, officers of regiments of the line had been very glad to withdraw their men from the temptations by which they were beset in London, and which rendered the maintenance of discipline most difficult. General PEEL said that the clothing of her Majesty's troops in India was supplied by the East Indian Govern ment, and was not under the control of the War Depart ment. Mr. ALCOCK had spoken to three or four gentlemen who were acquainted with Indian affairs, and among others to the Chairman of the East India Company (Mr. Mangles), but he could not obtain from them the slightest informa tion on this subject. (Laughter.) Ho hoped the Minister for War would institute some inquiry as to the clothing of European troops in India. Mr. MANGLES had told the hon. gentleman that the expenses of her Majesty's forces in India were defrayed by the East India Company, but ho could not inform his hon. friend what amount was deducted from the pay of the men for any portion of their dress. Those details were not within his cognizance, but he supposed the system adopted in this country was also in force in India. General PEEL said the extra clothing suitable to the climate of India was supplied to the troops by the East India Company, but he would cause inquiry to be made on the subject to which the hon. member for East Surrey (Mr. Alcock) had called attention. Col. SYKES observed that the native soldiers in the East India Company's service had not only to pay for their kite, but for every ornament of their dress, out of 14s. a month, while from such charges the European soldiers were altogether exempt. Mr. BAGWELL had found that applications were made to young men who were studying for the military profes sion by parties who stated that they were authorised to give them commission, provided they raised a certain num ber of men. Such an application had been made to a re lation of his own, and it struck him as very odd that while the applications of young gentlemen of fortune and station for commissions on condition ofraising men were uniformly refused by the authorities, persons who represented them selves as army agents should say that a certain sum might be lodged in a bank - , which should not be withdrawn until a commission was granted. It would seem, certainly, from this circumstance that there was no attempt at fraud, but it was stated that if some 50 men were raised a commission might he obtained without purchase. He thought such a proceeding was very strange and irregular, and he wished to know whether the Secretary for War could give any explanation on this subject. General PEEL could give no explanation, and could not understand how such an o.currenee could have taken place. The hon. gentleman had made the statement from his own personal knowledge, and he (General Peel) would have the matter inquired into. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of 1,227,0001. on account of pay and allow ances to her Majesty's laud forces. Mr. W. WILLIAMS asked what had boon the result of the important change which had taken place respecting the army clothing, which was now supplied by the Go vernment, instead of by the colonels of regiments. The estimates were so confused that he found it impossible to ascertain the comparative cost generally ; but he found that the cost of the Guards' clothing was now 40 per cent. more than it was in the time of the Duke of Wellington. lie thought this most extraordinary and most unwarrantable extravagance. The present Government could not make themselves more popu lar than by effecting retrenchments, especially in matters of this kind, and this was a subject to which he trusted the right hon. and gallant General would turn his attention. From what had transpired before the Committee on Contracts there seemed to be an immense amount of unfair dealing in connection with these, and unless the system was amended, and the receipt of perquisites put a stop to, especially in army contracts, no respectable man would offer to supply them. Mr. P. O'BRIEN asked whether the present Govern. ment intended to adhere to the principle of competitive examination in reference to the engineers and artillery. Some change appeared to be in contemplation, for it seemed that only on two more occasions was this principle to be recognised at Woolwich. General PEEL was much obliged to the hon. gentleman for giving him this opportunity of stating what, so far as he was concerned, had taken place on this subject. It had been recommended by the Council of Education that all candidates for the military service should pass through the ' college at Sandhurst. Not only would they as heretofore be subjected to competitive examination, but as far as the en gineers and artillery were concerned the candidates for these services would in future have to undergo a double competitive examination. It was, however, pointed out to him that under the new arrangement great hardship would be inflicted on several gentlemen who had been preparing themselves for examivation at Wool belch, because they would be past the ago at which they would beadmittud to Sandhurst. This was also represented to the Commander-in-Chief, and the result was that two more competitive examinations were directed to take place at Woolwich in order to allow those gentlemen to undergo examination there who would have been too old for Sandhurst. The principle of competitive examination, he repeated, was not at all given up ; but, on tho contrary, so far as the engineers and artillery were con cerned, they would be subjected to two examinations, one on entering the college ; and candidates would have no more difficulty in entering Sandhurst than in presenting themselves at Woolwich. (Hear, hear.) Mr. P. O'BRIEN asserted his right as the representative of a popular constituency— as one of the people and no aristocrat—to know the reason why a change had taken place after the success which had attended the new system. The house and the country had a right to be told this, and to know why an admission to Sandhurst was to bo made necessary. Mr, GLADSTONE said it was refreshing to hear an hon. gentleman assert the right of the house to institute in quiries, and as a member of the house he begged to thank the hon. gentleman for his care of its privileges. (Laughter.) The 'question which the hon. member had raised was one of great importance, but he did not seem to have caught ac curately what had fallen from the right hon. and gallant General the Secretary for War in roferance to the subject. If he (Hr. Gladstone) understood his right hon. andgallant friend correctly, he had stated that the interposition of the preliminary course at Sandhurst had been recommended merely as a measure of practical utility by the Council of Education, and was not intended in any way to bear upon or to restrict the principle of competition, upon which, if it had any influence at all, its effect would be to substitute a double for a single competition. If that were so then the statement of the gallant general could, he thought, be unsatisfactory neither to the hon. gentleman opposite nor to the committee. There was also another statement made by his gallant friend which ho hoard with much plea sure—namely, that the competitive entrance to Sandhurst under the new system would lee practically free for all her Majesty's subjects as the public competition at Woolwich. General PEEL said that any person seeking to be placed on their list of candidates for admission to Sandhurst had merely to apply to his guardian or some other, person who could bear testimony to his respectability, and he thought it was desirable that some such reference should be re quired, but beyond that there would be no limitation whatsoever. (Hear, hear.) The vote was then agreed to, as were also the following votes :- 206,0007. to defray the expenses connected with the pay and allowances of our land forces at home and abroad. 100,000/. for the embodied militia, 30,000'. for the volunteer force. 60,0001. for the departments of Secresary of State for War and General Commanding-in-Chief. 116,000/. for manufacturing establishments, military storekeepers, &c. 180,0001. for wages of artificers and labourers. 229,0001. for clothing and necessaries. 361,0001. for provisions, forage, &c. 214,000/. for warlike stores. 93,000/. for fortifications. 50,000 for civil buildings. 222,0007. for barracks. 55,000/. for the educational and scientific branches. 9,000/. for rewards for military service. 211,0007. for the pay of general officers. 138,000/. for the pay of reduced and retired officers; 69,000/. for pensions to the widows of officers. 17, 00/. for pensions to wounded officers. 10,000/. for Chelsea and Kilmainham hospitals. 4,000/. for out-pensioners at Chelsea. 44,000/. for superannuation and retiring allowances. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the SPEAKER having resumed the chair, the resolutions passed in com mittee of supply were reported to the house. EAST INDIAN LOAN BILL. On the orderoi the day for the further consideration of this bill as amended, The CAANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER liadictihtehiltanioe bill coil I be of greater importance, and he would pass it with unanimity. T 4ee wants n sted the house hoped the East India Company were urgent, and h would consider the measure irrespectively of Government for India. of the question of what might be the future form of days but of hours, and The urgency was not a question he did not think that the sum as ked for in the previous bill 8,000,00,1. —was too large. A question existed as to the 11th clause—( hear )—which )—which it was proposed to the hoped the bill would pass expunge—(hear, hear) — bu without opposition. reseed his approval of the reject- Mr. CARDWELL expressed tion of the 11th clause. Sir E. PERRY had no objection to adopt the most effectual means for supplying the East India Company with funds, but could not give his assent to the bill or t o the proposition on which was founded. Mr. BAILLIE hoped there would be no opposition to the bill. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY hoped there would he no ob jection to a clause of which he had given notice, viz., that on or before the let day of February in each year the court of directors of the East India Company, under such direction and control as aforesaid, shall prepare, or cause to be prepared, a return of all monies raised on loan under th e provisions of this act, and of the expenditure thereof; also, a return of all stocks, loans, debt s , an d li a biliti es th en chargeable on the East Indian revenues, at home and abroad, up to the latest period ' of time to which such return shall be ma d e ou t . That all such returns shall be presented to both houses of Parliament on or before the Ist day in February of each year, if Parliament, is then sitting, and if Parliament is not sitting, then such returns shall be presented within ten days of the first meeting of Parlia ment after the let day of February in each year. Mr. MANGLES' said that the hon. and learned member for Davenport proposed that this country should guarantee the loan, obtaining its remedy from the revenues of India; but if those revenues were fluctuating and insufficient to' meet the claim, he could not see, according to the view of the bun, and learned meraber, how this country could get its ultimate remedy. (Hear, and a laugh.) Mr. CRAWFORD reminded the house that the Indian railways were already paying a larger dividend than would cover the guarantee of this loan. Sir G. LEWIS said that if ho was not mistaken, the operation to which the honourable gentleman alluded con sisted in the conversion of a 5 per cent. stock into a 4 per cent. stock, which was done with the perfect assent of the bondholders. That, therefore, was not an act which could with any justice be designated as an act of spoliation. Whether it was financially a successful operation was another question, Lie mast at the same time be permitted to enter his protest against giving the imperial guarantee for loans for Indian or colonial keeping, unless in cases of absolute necessity. (Hear, hear.) It was quite absurd to say there was any real necessity in the present instance. Indian Bonds wore at that moment at a premium of 256. or 30e., and therefore it was apparent the East India Com paly could borrow mouey ou easier terms than most of the continental countries of Europe. After a few words from Colonel SIKES and Mr. CAMPBELL, The bill as amended was then agreed to. THE INDIA BILL. Upon the order of the day for the second reading of this bill, Lord PALNIERSTON acid—l presume, air, the Government have a bill of their own to introduce on this subject. I am willing, therefore, to postpone this bill until the house shall see what the Govern ment intends to propose. I would, therefore, put this bill down for an early clay after Easter, by which time we may expect the measure of the Government will be ma tured. I will, therefore, propose Thursday, the 22d of April for the second reading of the bill. The motion having been agreed to, the order was did• charged. TURNPIKE ROADS IN SCOTLAND. Leave was given to Lord ELCUO to introduce a bill to abolish tolls and statute labour in Scotland. CASHEL ELECTION. Sir F. BARING moved that the petition of John Joseph Scully, presented to this house on the 18th day of August last complaining that general and extensive bribery pre veiled at the last election for the borough of Cashel, to gether with the recognisances entered into in respect of the same petition, and the report of the examiners of reaog nisances in respect of that recognisance, be referred to the general committee of elections. Colonel FRENCH objected to such a proceeding. Sir J. D. FITZGERALD contended that the petition could not proceed, as the parties had not had proper notices and they could not now be given. Mr. WALPOLE suggested that the matter should be re. ferred to the committee, to inquire into and report on the circumstances under which the matter had lapsed, that the house might be placed in possession of the actual facts. The motion was amended accordingly and agreed to. AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS. Leave was given to ➢dr. CAIRD to bring in a bill to pro• vide for the collection of agricultural statistics. The bill was then road a first time, and the house ad jourued at ton minutes to one. SPORVINo I TELLIGENCE. DONCASTER SPRING MEETING.—FRIDAY. `Stewards—The Right Hon. Lord Londesborough and George (Jayne, Esq, Judge and Clerk of the Course, Mr. R. Johnson. Starter, Mr. Birley. The Trial Stakes of 5 sous each, with 30 added, for Syr olds and up yards. Certain winners extra. T.Y.C. 9 subs. Jr. S. Williams's Costrel, by The Cossack, 3 yrs, Oat 71b Mr. T. Parr's Odd Trick, 4 yrs, eat (Inc. 71b extra) (Fl tma , ) 2 Mr. E. R. Clark's Lady of Tam worth, 3 yrs, 6.t 71b (oar. 63t 81b)......... Betting—Even on Costrei-5 to 4 agst Odd Trick. Won by four lengths; the Lady of Tam worth way beaten Lff. After the race 100 to 7 was takes about Costrel for the Northamptonshire Stakes, and 20 to 1 was offered eget Odd Trick. The Chesterfield Plate (handicap) of 100 sove. Winners extra. Oneinile. Mr. Millard's Glautias, by Pyrrhus the First, 5 yre, sst 61b (car, sst 81b) (French) 1 Mr. T. Taylor's colt by Stulta—Gentle Kitty, 4 yrs, 6st 61b (Ball ink) 2 Mr. Saxon's Woodmite, 3 yrs, Sat 11b... (Grimshaw) Mr. G. Johnson's Church Langton, 4 yrs, Est alb (Little) 4 The following also ran :—Pontifical, Massacre, Silica, Figdale, and Culcavy. Betting-5 to 1 agst Culcavy, 6to 1 each aget Gentle Kitty colt, Church Langton, and Massacre, 7 to 1 Aget Woodmite. Won easily by a length ' • a neck between the second and third ; good fourth ; Silica was fifth ; and Culcavy . 1' Within the distance Massacre fell over the rails, and threw Pritchard, who was severely shaken. The Hopeful Stakes of 5 sows each, with 100 added, for two-yr-olds. Colts, Bst 71b ; fillies and gelding, 8t 3lb ; winners this year 51b extra. About four furlongs. 66 subs. Mr. Jackson's Fusee, Sst 71b (Bates) 1 Mr. W. S. Cra.sford's filly by Teddington (Wells) 2 Mr. T. Parr's Stockbam, Set 31b (Flatman) 3 Mr. J. Bates's Raspberry, Bst 31b (Challoner) 4 The following also ran :—Phantasm, Lady Well, Anti dote, The Pirate, Sir Walter Scott, Auenrin, Black Eagle, Daniel, Macbeth, colt by Sir Hercules, Paul Jones, Little Emma, The King of Sardinia, and Pr.-dictieu. Betting--4 to 1 agst Aneurin, sto 1 aget Stookham, 10 to 1 agst Truth colt, 100 to 8 agdt Black Eagle, 100 to 0 agst Paul Jones and Teddington filly, 20 to 1 each agst Pirate, Fusee, and Raspberry. Won by a neck ; half a length between the second and third ; good fourth ; Sir Walter Scott and Aneurin were the next two, pretty well up with the fourth. The Doncaster Spring Handicap of 15 sous. each, 10 ft., and 5 only if declared, &c., with 100 added. Winners extra. Tne second to save his stake. St. Leger Course. 51 subs., 25 of whom declared. Mr. Barnard's Wrestler, by Orlando, 3 yre, Get 71b (Swift) 1 Mr. Potei's Gammon, 3 yrs, Get 51b (including 101 b extra. (Bray) 2 Mr. J. Thompson's Broadlands, 3 yrs, 6st 31b (bullock) Tne following also ran :—Gammener, Underhand, Culcavy, Bird-in-the-Eland, Riga, Honeytree, and Silica. Betting-5 to 2 aget Gammon, 9to 2 aget Wrestler, 6 to 1 agst Broadlands. Won by a neck ; three lengths between the second and third ; bad fourth. HORSES STRUCK OUT OF THEIR ENGAGE JIENTS. On the sth inst., St. Giles out uf all his engagements. On the 11th inst., at S a.m., Tom Moody out of all his engagements. On the 9th inst., Mr. Harrison's Ben Lomond out Of the Warwick Steeple Chase. On the 10th inst., Honesty and Mallsny out of the Gullane Steeple Chase. On the 11th inst., all Mr. Golby's horses out of the Steeple Chase and Hurdle Race at Warwick, and Cornet out tf the Steeple Chase at Beverley. On the 12th inst., Huntington out of Earl Spencer's Plate at Northampton. [Anvzwriszmzsr]. —Du Barry's Rovalenta Arabica Food supersedes the miseries of the materia medica, brings new life and cheerfulness to the invalid, and renders the process of cure both pleasant and certain. FIFTY THOUSAND well-known and recorded cases establish this ; and the num ber of witnesses to its effects is daily increasing. Amongst the female sex its salutary effects are as marked as amongst males. Miss Edaabeth Jacobs writes, from Na2iug Vicarage, near Waltham Cross, Herts :—" I have been sufiering, at least, seven years, in the ;rime of life, from indigestion, ner vousness, headaches, inflammation, and gatherings, low • spirits, general debility, sleeplessness, and delusions ; and, during all that time, I have required, every year,. so much medical attendance, that I have boon almost ruined by doctor's bills." She then presents her heartfelt gratitude to Messrs. Du -Barry, for the complete cure effected by Du Barry's Vood. Mrs. Mary Godsmark, of Hunton, writes— " Your excellent Food has released me from an incredible accumulation of suffering, for which during the last eight years, all kinds of medicines had been tried in vain. My feelings and sufferings, previous to taking your - Food, were the following—lndigestion, nervousness, bilious. 'less, affection of the liver and kidneys, costiveness, palpita. tion of the heart, noises in the ear, pains in almost all the body, low spirits, general debility, loss of memory, wretched ness, thoughts of self-destruction." James Portrr, Esq., of . Perth, returns thanks on behalf of a lady, who had been for 13 years afflicted with indigestion, prostration of strength, die., accompanied by cough. Mr. Thomas Walker, of King's road, Chelsea, expresses his " gratitude and pleasure" for the good done by the Food to his wife, who, previous to taking it, " had boon suffering for a long time from dyspepsia, produo• ing alternately diarrhoea, and the opposite state of the eye. tem; and although medicine gave tempo , ary relief, it proved of no lasting benefit." Mary Gclbert, of Trevagler, near Pen sauce, says :—" Eighteen years' nervous debility, -violent pal pitation of the heart, throbbing of the temples, violent pains in the left side and back, shortness of breath, cough, numb. ness of the extremities, cramps, spasms, flatulency, retching, • and such general weakness, that I was constantly fearful of falling, when oa my legs ; all these symptoms have been removed by Du Barry's excellent Food." It is impos sible to make room in a newspaper paragraph for the varied but concurrent language of thankfulness in which the writers describe their escap'a from their . sufferings. It is a proud and • enviable position for Messrs. Du Barry to feel themselves thus acknowledged benefactors of multitudes of their fellow-beings. , Supported by testimonials from the following celebrated Pro fessors of Chemistry: Dr. A. Ure; Dr. Shorland; Dr. Harvey; Dr. Campbell ; Dr. Gattiker ; Dr. Wurzer ; Dr. Ingram ; Lord Stuart de Decies; the Dowager Countess of Castfestuart; Major Gen. Thomas King, and many other respectable per sons, whose health has been restored by it, after all other means of cure had failed. Suitably packed with full, instruc tions. In canisters, 11b. 2s. 9d. ; 21b. 45 . 6 d.; 51b. lie. ; 121 b. 225. The .121 b canisters are sent carriage free, en re ceipt of Post-office order. Barry Du Barr y , and Co., 77, Regent-street, London. Important Caution against the fear ful dangers of spurious imitations.—The Vice-Chancellor Sir William. Page Wood granted an Injunction on the 10th March, 1854, aga i n st Alfred Hooper Nevin, for imitating " Ds Barry's Revaleuta Arabica Food." BIRTHS. BATLEY —On the 9th inst., at 50.Glocester-terraoe, ElJae' park, the wife of Lyttelton H. Bayley, Esq., of a son- FiNeil —On the 11th inst., at Upper Tulsa-hill, lira. Finch, of a daughter. STRADBRORE—On the 10th inst., the Countess of Straad• broke, of a daughter. MARRIAGES, CORBIN - JARMAN—On the 11th inst., at St. Peter's, to S ara h Eaton-square, Captain Corbin, of Rainsgate, Ann, eldest daughter of Captain Jarman, also a Rama gate. GALE—MASox- -On the 11th inst. , at St. Matthew's, Den mark-hill, Wm. R. Gale, of Je win-street, to Sarah, the eldest daughter of John Mason, Esq., of Loughhor° l4ll. road, Brixton, and Cripplegate, city. DEATHN. BROWN—On the Bth inst. , at Cobham, Surrey, Charlai Power Brown, Esq., aged 73. GRIGG —On the Bth inst ., at Thistle-grove, Bromptondir• Joseph Grigg, for man y years a resident in biayfair, aged 60. LONGLEY—On the 9th inst., at Auckland Castle, the 0 00. Mrs. Longley, tho wife of the Lord Bishop of Durhattly after throe days' illness. RAusDEN—On the 9th inst., at his residenc e, 46, TIPP° Harley-street, George Ranisc.. __ -- L O NDON : Printed and Published by lIIIIRDO YOUNe, of No. 112 , Strand , Printer, 0 The Sun 0010 0 . 14 7 °) 112, Strand, in the Precinct o f the SavoY. On 41°111/. of KidtilefiOX, Saturday, march 13, 1858 c