The Sun. — London, England, 1829-02-27 00:00:00

',' ele7 "AG ktIDA, Liz . 4t , - 0 • - ' • l' n tt nn . o_oo. o6lat _ ff 10 , atm Mr 4 1,111" likUM • Ile - i r I) ore time and discernment than the other. The Noble Lord his stated his opinion with great confidence, and certain! he is not to blarne—every man has the right to u►easul himself. He has arraigned the measine of 6..vertinie!,t with great severity; he has arraigned the measure w!,ich has obtained] the sanction of his Majesty, and been oin n - mously recommended by his Majesty's Ministers. Will l now be so good as to give us a eample of his measures, f ., r the adjustment of the question, and I will endeavuu►' to the best of my power to return him the compliment by c► i ticising his work.—(Laughter.)—The Noble Lord is vio lent against the measure, the exact nature of which is yet entirely unknown. Not even a hint has gone abroad re specting it since the Message from the Throne up to flint hour and we arc as completely in the dark about it, as we are about any future event. The Noble Lord, I presume, is as much , in the dark as any man here. I have taken die OXFORD UNIVERSITY ELECTION. THK COMMITTEE for 'CONDUCT ING the RE-ELECTION of Mr. PEEL MEET DAILY at the BRITISH COFFEE-HOUSE, Cocksput - - street ; they big to inform Members of Convocation, that the DAY of ELECTION is fixed for THURSDAY, the 26t h In 3 L They Cruet that those Members of Convocation to whom, owing to inaccurate Lists, they have not sent Circular Letters till excuse the omission, and allow them earnestly to request their support and presence on the 26th. Gentlemen wishing to secure post-horses, or any other meant of conveyance, are requested to apply at the Com mince-room. GRANVILLE C. IL SOMERSET, Chairman. No. 11,377. LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 27, 1829. PltiCE 7D. OXFORD UNIVERSITY ELECTION. THE COMMITTEE fur CONDUCT ING SIR ROBERT H. INGLIS'S ELECTION, beg to inform their Friends, who may be desirous of at tending the POLL on SATURDAY, that CONVEY ANCES are provided f.r them THIS EVENING, and EARLY TO-MORROW MORNING. Gentlemen are requested to apply for inliirmation at the COMMITTEE "OM, 26, COCKSPUR-STREET. - PHILIP HENRY ABBOT, Chairman pro tern. Counittee-room Friday, Feb 27 1829 . of this or any other description. (Hear, hear.) When the other great measure now in contemplation shall be carris•d into effect, the: result will be most salittary—will be the means of securing the glory, the tranquillity, and safety of the empire. So mulch for the measures proposed for uniting the two kingdoms in bonds of peace and amity. I have now to make a few remarks respecting the course pursued by the Noble Lord (the Earl of Longford) the other night, and the charge which he brought forward in my absence against the Officers of the Crown. It was no light charge against a imblie officer, against amm holding a responsible and difficult situation, to say that he had neglected his duty in framing a law for the suppression of a society dangerous to the Constitution, and in con structing it in suer a way as to render it incapable of exe cution. This was no light charge, and therefore I shall be excusable if I consider it my duty to rebut, in the strongest ;ind most decided manner, a charge so unjust and so un foUnded. I will recall to the recollection of the Noble Lord the circumstances under which the Bill was brought forward, and the result of its operation in Ireland, and pledge myself to prove, to the satisfaction of every reasonable and impartial man, that the charge which he has brought against me is not only unfoundel but unwarranted• In the year 1824 the state of the Homan Catholic Association was such as could not escape the vigilance of the Noble Lord at the head of the Govern anent, akd he vpplied his exertions with mine to find out somPlMans of putting down that or any other association so dangerous to the security of the State. It was not, however, found expedient to do any thing in 1824. Be- the Noble Lord as a disappointed prophet and a defeated politician.—(A laugh.)—But what was the effect of the measures which the Noble Lord insists shonhi have been carried into effect against the Association ? At the general election in 1826 it appeared, beyond all doubt, that the people in that country were bonrid together by a general sympathy for their common sufferings—they joined in union with the leaders of the Association, who, by their activity and perseverance, and determined conduct, identiLd themselves with the people of Ireland— took the people out of the hands of the law, and destroyed those boundal ies between the landlord and the tenant which it is desirable, and indeed, necessary, should be kept. The prophecy made in 1825 was completely falsified. The landlords were placed in opposition to the peasantry—the landlords were put down, and the state of society com pletely broken up. This was the result of the election of 1826, and ought to be an awful lesson, to be read by every person who thinks it his day to persist in opposing the just rights and feelings of the great body of the people. (Pith regard to the charge made by the Noble Lord, that I neglected my duty. in not introducing a more rigorous Bill, and in not carrying the Bill into execution, I deny that I ant, in one way or another, responsible. I will state what occurred on the occasion, and in doing so I am sure that I violated no confidence. 1 thought it my duty, as Attorney-General, to call the attention of the Government to the state of the Association when the measures pursued were so dangerous to the public peace. I stated what I thought to be the law on the question, and gave it, as my candid - and explicit opinion, that there would he great dif ficulty in carrying the law into effect. I stated that the question might be raised before a Jury, but if brought be fore a Jury, and even the most honest Jury, differing, as might be expected on this question, there was great risk that the Government might be defeated. I have still however, another point to settle with the Noble Lord who has made such an attack on me during my absence for neglecting my duty. Does he think that it was the duty of the Attorney-General to institute a prosecu tion, by some means or other, against a body which had - . IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. liberty of making these replies to the attacks which the .Noble Lord has made against me, and I trust that he is convinced that I am not so much to blame as lie has insi nuated, and that there is also a little defect on his part in bringing Corr/ant such an accusation. The truth is, the Noble Lord has skimmed lightly along the surface, with- Mit at all entering into the nature of the question,--and it he *oak' consult an Hon. Relation of his own,--a Gallant Admiral who had served his country with such honour and success, that gallant Officer would tell him that he cal ries too much sail; that he has too little ballast, and would be the better for a little mote discretion at the head. HOUSE OF LORDS.-(LAST NIGHT.) Lord ROLLE presented petitions against further conces sions to the Roman Catholics, from the Protestant inhabi tants of a hundred in the eastern part of the county of Devon, from the town of Bideford, and other parishes in the county. The Earl of LIMERICK presented a petition from the inhabitants of Sidmouth and its vicinity, praying for the removal of all disabilities on account of religions opinions. The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE, when presenting a pe tition from the Roman Catholics of the parish of Down, praying the repeal of the Vestry and Sub-letting Act, said ►hat, with respect to the prayer as regarded the Sub-letting Act, he could not altogether agree with the petitioners. There were portions of the Aot which he thought might be modified with advantage. DANGEROUS ASSOCIATION BILL. THMPSON, MAYOR. A COMMON COUNCIL holden in the CHAMBER of the GUILDHALL of the CITY of LONDON, on THURSDAY, the 2fith day of February, 1929; T Resolved, • HAT this Court, deeply sensible of the justice and policy of extending the blessings of civil and religious liberty to all classes of his Majesty's subjects, as far as is consistent with the security of the establishments of the country, regar d w i t h sat i sfact i on the recemmenda twiri_oifhiMajetsty to th e L eg i s l ature , to rev i ew th e l aws ' 4ll nAnse civil disabilities upon our Roman - Catholic fellow -subjects , on account of their reli g ious opinions. That this C ourt, fully relying upon the assurance of his Majesty's Go vernment that these objects may, at the pre sent period of general. peace abroad, and undisturbed tran ,quillity at home, be rdy effected , g without danger to the Consti tution of the county trust that the measures which may ;b4" brough , t f earne orwa, will extinguish for eve thatspirit of civil discord which has so long desolated Ire land, and will insure the stability.of the Empire, and the prosperity, happiness, and welfare of all classes of his Ma subjects. Resolved --That Petitions founded upon these Resolii !i°", be presented . to both Houses of the Legislature, pray lug that the important subject may be considered in the spirit recommended by his Majesty, with the view to sup port his Majesty in the adoption of measures founded upon these feelings. And the Drafts of Petitions being prepared, were read and 'agreed to. Ordered --That the said Petitions he fairly transcribed, °lgned by the Town Clerk, and presented to the Right Honourable the House of Lords and the Honourable the Hor se Of Commons. °M Ordered —That the Sh er iff s , a tt en d e d b y th e Remem eer, do Wait upon and request some Lord in Parlia ment to present the Petiti on t o th e Ri g ht H onoura bl e th e Hous e of Lords. Ordered —That the Sheriffs, attended by the Remem brancer, do present the Petition to the Honourable the House of Commons. c ( ammog i a, , uatakiinieneitnsrg h tev .)_Th e , h ave b ee n navigator's who went to s ea without exactly knowing.to what port they were su-Ting, h The Noble Lord appears to be somewhat in tlpt t pro 'ea -: meat. He went to sea, bound, as he supposed , for to. Port of Utter Rejection, and he is now beating a b out in the chops of the Bay of Eternal Conciliation.—(Laughter.) I congratulate his Lordship on the success of his voyage. —I congratulate him on the prospect of being restored to his proper place in society, freed from the danger s with . which he has been so long surrounded, and occupying that post of security and peace to which his labours, And exer tions, and character su well entitle him. The Earl of LONGFORD said, unaccustomed as L was to public speaking, he could not- count upon =Mug an adequate reply to the humorous and witty sreech just rt N ohel o i rs b dnu l e hroci n L fl ilgv o oc r deut he ldtoa H efbm e s et ni l tce a e l i l nGo b fol e ti e esi rep r e n ieN h se a eon t nit e ce d o. L of w tr i mlid t. t g y by t a h t a c e l i llt e d a c rg had also made a charge against the Catholic Association— an Association which he denounced as most mischievous, Sir ALEXANDER. GRANT, and other Members of the Nouse of Commons, brought up the Bill fur the Suppres sion of Dangerous Associations or Assemblies in Ireland, to which the Commons bad agreed, adopting the amendment proposed by the Lords. THE CATHOLIC QUESTION. The Bishop of BRISTOL presented a petition from the Minister, Churchwardens, and others of the parish of St. James's parish, Bristol, against further concessions to the Roman Catholics. Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition in favour of concession, from Halifax. The Earl of LONGFORD presented petitions, praying that no further coucession be given to the Roman Catho lics from a parish in the county of Donegal, from Rath - kean, in the county of Limerick; from certain parishes in Fermanagh, Tipperary, Cork, and Cavan. The Marquis of ANGLESEA presented petitions, pray ing the removal of disabilities on account of religious opi nions, from the Roman Catholics of St. Peter's parish in the city of Cork ; certain parishes in Wexford and Louth, in all eight petitions. The Noble Marquis likewise pre sented several petitions against the Sub-letting and Vestry Acts. DUBLIN ROTUNDA PETITION. WOODTHORPE, THOMPSON, MAYOR. A COMMON COUNCIL holden in the CHAMBER of the GUILDHALL of the CITY of LONDON, on THURSDAY, the 26th day of February, 1829; Resolved, THAT this C ourt i s f u ll y sat i s fi e d t h at t h e advice given to his Majesty by our illustrious fellow- Cit izen, his Grace the Duke of Wellington, and by the Right Hon. Robert Peel, in reference to his Majesty's most r, +Kim's, Speech at th e open i ng of the present Sess i on o f arliament, recommending, among other important mat t're• a review of the, laws which impose civil disabilities on his Majesty's . Roman Catholic subjects, with a view to the remova l • p full o f such as can be effected consistently with the a ndpermanent security of our Establishments in Church a nd State, has been dictated alone by feelings of patriotism ~a ndA utY and the th an k s o f t hi s C ou r t are t h ere tb re j ust l y du and, are h ereby offered to them for their conduct upon "'ls Most important measure. to Fre e d om o f t hi s Ci ty b e presen ted i n a g old box o f the value of One Hundred Guineas, to the Right Hon. &ben peel, in manifestation of the high sense this Court eating., of the honourable and patriotic coar s e be h a s - " o pted upon this momentous occasion. WOODTHORPE, Tomorrow *ill be published, price only 2s. FART IV, of 1 HE r EXTRACTOR ; or, Universal Re pertoriumof General Literature and Scienc e , coin -1 ending the whole of the instructive and entertaining Articles from all the Foreign and Domestic Reviews, Magazines, Journals, &c., published during the present month, The whole carefully compiled, digested, and ar ranged. %* The Weekly Numb er (N o . XVII I. ) i s published this day, in Bvo., containing matter equal to 61 pages of the " Edinburgh and Quarterly Reviews," price only 6d. Published at the Extractor Office, 150, Fleet -street, may lie had of all Booksellers and Newsmen. • CATHOLIC CONTROVERSY. h i" (lisi was published, price 3s. boards, allowed to purchasers, CATALOGUE of BOOKS, containing npwards of 3000 Articles, exclu4vely relating to " e CHURCH of ROME, her DOCTRINES, NOR NALSNIP,DISCIPLINE, CONTROVERSIES, and AN -O,dS including th e Hi stor i es o f h er var i ous Religious T ; thei r pecu li ar M i ssals, Brev i ar i es, & c. ; t h e tpe,ts publish e d d ur i ng the Re i gn of James 11 ., an d a S et I. ano nitations, f rom 1800 to t h e present Ti me . to 0 n Sal e b y Howell and Co., 295, Holborn, successors ° Ogle, Duncan, and Co. l'h;f7:l—lowing Works will be published in a few days, by Mr. 'MURRAY. CHRONICLE of the CONQUEST of GRANADA, by Author of the " Sketch 2 . 2 vols. Svo. pu,, C OLLOQUIES on the PROGRESS and PROS -2 •,,7 8 ef SOCIETY. By . ROBERT SOUTHEY. 3 g. Svo. With Engravings Tti ALL for LOVE ; t h e PILGRIM o f CONIPOS. • r ..-A; and ot h er P oems. By RO BERT SOUTHEY. " Pc 4 P 8 vo. 11E 8 ' vTl* LIFE and SERVICES of Captain PHILIP Smy„,ER, late of his Majesty's ship Nisus. By Captain 1 1 R.N. Svo. nth p rr i h a e ve4 J . °UßNAL'of a NATURALIST. post Svc , . 6. n 1 13. 'ItT IIA'S VISIT t o her Uncle in ENGLAND ; I , trso l T 6u g a variety of interesting information for Young vols, foolscap Svo. THE MONTHLY MAGAZINE. 1" the Hands of the present Proprietors, the t „ „_ MONTHLY MAGAZINE has a l wa y s b een d ev ot e d „- ' 4 e Constitution. But, with the rise of stronger public Renties, more direct exertion s are ca ll e d f or if great oy,tieal hazards are threatened, they are to be repelled only public vigilance ; if the old barriers of the ; Ra te are shaken by open violence or treacherous friend 11'.1)+,1_ ,the most secure and legitimate defence is in a Press try by by Constit u ti ona l k now l e d ge , b y zea l f or t h e coun alik 444 by that 11.i t i s h pr id e o f pr i nc i p l e w hi c h scorns e the f rowns and the influence of corrupt authority. ti ru ",:"e declarations have been often made before ; but the ip t i i "mpebk a stern sincerity. Our Principles are British, strongest sense of the word. We have not adopted l er fee or reward ; nor will we abandon them for fee deu, " L a rd• The country, at this hour, is in imminent tEra A convulsion, that may crush its whole system, iut,,, 44t ened. A n ew elcuient of discord is about to be th e teed into our Constitution ; and every means—from ti,Wutest corruption of the base, to the most insolent inti tritl:ti°ll ° I . the high—is at work. Events are ripening , bu t t Z ‘ r entendous rapidity, that nothing can counteract aud th e boldest resolution, the most extended fellow-feeling, to t );:,,nioat vigorous, straitforward, and faithful fidelity t elk;i3natitrition. tvu hirehat - will come, we shall do our duty as men, while Chat tile Power of speaking to our own fellow-subjects. att - ',„ 1 14 '3' be forged for us, we may be tortured and per trulit,C." by triumphant Popery—brit we shall still put our nu t , 1t the ri g h teous cause, an d st ill f ee l t h at t h e lif e of f rt e iz tnot be more nobly expended than in the service of by \ i v * , it n ext numb er , price Half-a-Crown, will be published studstud,,"taker and C 0 . ,: i London • Curry and Cu., Dublin ; afuli. 7 au g 4 and Lines , Edinbu rgh—andrgh—and may l e ordered " l oksellers in the United Kingdom. 7:" :7 --... ' "!!! .. ......n.rnr.nernamwev.mmwmmowerevww.mos th eq v u l : c°4nt Melville, the Chancellor of the Ex hut r, s►r George Clerk, and Sir George Cockburn, the i l ft ,„ e terl jtvve yesterday with ' the Duke of Wellington, at The Marquis of ANGLESEA said that he had a peti tion in his hand to present, one of the most important that had yet been presented to their Lordships, which was signed on the 26th of January last, and the prayer was for emancipation to the Roman Catholics. The petition itself was grounded on two foundations ; the first rested on the resolutions of the 69 Peers, in the year 1825, and the second was founded on that paper known by the name of the Protestant Declaration. The paper was signed by more men of wealth, of talent, and of high respectability, connected with that country, than probably any other paper which ever was published: The petition was one of such a nature that he would beg to have it read. It spoke for itself. The petition was not signed by all the parties who had signed the paper on which it was founded. The document upon which the petition was founded was signed by two Dukes, seven Alarquisses, 26 Earls, 11 Viscounts, two Counts, 22 Barons, 52 Members of the House of Commons, and upwards of two thousand Gentlemen of rank and respectability, who were interested in the safety aad security of the country. He felt every moment that he took up their Lordships' time before he read the peti tion would be lost, for the language it conveyed was so truly apt and proper, that he could not hope to convey the sentiments in language of his own equal to what the petition set forth. A conversation now followed, respecting the regularity or irregularity of any Noble Lord reading a petition as part of a speech, in whicletord Ellenborough, Earl Darn , ley, and - Lord Plunket, took a part. The latter Nobleman said (and in this the other Noble Lords concurred) that, according to the rules of the House, there could be no ob jection for the Noble Marquis to state, as his speech, and at any length, the words of the petition. The Marquis of ANGLESEA then read the whole of the petition, after saying—.." I will read it as part of my speech, my Lords, and I wish to God that it was my own language." At the conclusion the Noble Marquis ;moved that the petition do lie on the table. On the question being put by the Loan CHANCELLOR, The Marquis of LOND ON6ERRY rose.—My Lords, I congratulate the House—l congratulate the country— and, above all, I congratulate the Noble Marquis who has just addressed your Lordships, that he should now come down to the Hooke and make so honourable and manly a declaration of his sentiments on this important subject ; a declaration showing the great change in his sentiments since he went to preside over that country. My Lords, I admire the high moral character of the Noble Mar quis—l admire his honourable feelings—and I appre ciate his military knowledge ; but I own, in his politica career, he has pursued a course of conduct which, in my humble judgment, is very remarkable, connected with the coutse that he had, up to the period to which I have allud ed, adopted. If the Noble Marquis supposes that the sen timents which he has lately expressed connected with the proceedings for the suppression of the Catholic Associa tion—if he believes, I say, that he was speaking the senti ments and feelings of tire Catholics of Ireland, I beg to aid that, to the correctness of that notion, I can never sub scribe ; for I believe, my Lords, that there was no wish— not only in Ireland, but in England also—on the part of the people to arrest the Bill in its passage which, a day or two back, received your lordships' concurrence. I believe my Lords, that there is not one Member in this House— , nor one person in the country—who would wish to say " Not content" to that Bill. The only thing that can save the country from a repetition of those evils which have so long afflicted Ireland is to pass such a Bill. By such means a law will he established which will prevent any meeting like that to which I have alluded from being again formed. I have lately seen in the newspapers that they will still assemble, and that they will not rest satis fied. Those expressions, my Lords, have really given me considerable uneasiness and concern. I am sorry to hear the Noble Marquis speak as be has done on the subject. I look upon. the existence of these meetings, my Lords, as most disastrous and fatal things to the peace and harmony of the country )—lf 1 have expressed myself stongly on this point, I have done so because I feel deeply the importance attached to the subject. lam satisfied that, from one end of Ireland to the other, there is a general feeling of satisfaction at the Bill on the part of those whose principles are in favour of the Roman Catholics possessing all the civil rights to which they are entitled. There is not one man, firm in these principles, who does not hail with satisfaction and delight the Bill which passed your Lordships' House on Tuesday, the ob ject of which is, to put an end for ever to one of the most mischievous Associations, and, I may say, one of the most unfortunate, that ever existed for Ireland.—(Cheers.) The Marquis of ANGLESEA—I will detain your Lordships but very few moments. Ti, Noble Marquis who has just sat down, like almost every other person, has totally mistaken me ox the subject to which he has referred.—(Hear, hear.)—l beg to say, my Lords, that there is ino man less friendly than I am to the Catholic Association. - No one more closely watched their pro ceedings, when 1 had the honour of being in that country—no one watches! with more anxiety to put his finger upon any breach of the laws than I (lid ; and, if they had disobeyed the laws, no one was more desirous than I was of putting them down. My attention, my Lords, was called to their proceedings—the attention of the Law- 0111- cers of the Crown was likewise attracted to what was going forward—not a debate occurred at which there were net short-hand writers employed by Government—every dis -1 cussion was the subject of close investigation, in order to discover whether any transgression of the laws occurred.— I maintain, my Lords, and I wish to have it understood, that, if there had been any violation of the Statutes, that I wished to disperse that body ; and I now appeal to his Ma jesty's Ministers whether I am not stating that which is correct. If the laws had been infringed, I should hive had no difficulty in acting, and putting down that Asso ciation. The truth is, that no opportunity of noticing that Assembly was omitted. The time will come, my Lords, when I shall have an opportunity of explaining myself respecting the part that I took when I was in that country, but I cannot now allow any thing of a personal description (as far as I am myself concerned) to he brought forward, list by any possibility it might throw an impe diment in the way of completing that important measure which his Majesty's Ministers have in contemplation.— (Cheers.)—My Lords, if I were now at the head of the Government in Ireland, and if I were sure that it was the determination of his Majesty's Ministers not to pass a Bill of relief (if any thing could have tempted me to have re mained in the situation which I had the honour of holding) if, after this present Bill bad passed, I had been assured that no Bill of relief would be passed, I should have im plored Ministers (as we understood) to let m' Much as I dissapprove of the Association, I would ten thousand times rather that the same body of men remained undisturbed in open Court, with our short-hand writers taking down every word they uttered, than that a discon tented body—and justly discontented body—should be dis persed over the face- of the empire, if no Bill of relief should follow.—(Cheers )—I du not believe that there is in the House any Noble Lord who can deny that the situa tion of the country requires a measure of relief. There is nu man who can deny that a large majority in the country believe that the measure would be for the benefit of all. I believe, however, my Lords, that no measure of relief would have been proposed had it not been for the exer- , tions of the Catholic Association.—( Hear, hear.) I con demn many acts of the Association ; they have been vio lent, they have been personal—unjustly personal and abu sive; they have done all this—yet, let them be ever so personal and vio;ent in their proceedings, they have effect ed much—they have accomplished great things, fur they have certainly brought the Catholic Question to the state in which it now is.—( Hear.) I say, my Lords, had the Association never existed, the Catholic Question would not have advanced to the station which it now occupies.— (Hear.) On a future occasion I shall have an opportunity of explaining the course I took in the administration of affairs when I had the honour of holding the situation that I held in Ireland. I shall lay before your Lordships a simple statement of facts, and, I trust, to the satisfaction of the House ; but at present I refrain, lest it might tend to impede the progress of the measure which is about to be brought before your Lordships. Earl DARNLEY wished to say a few words. It was far from his intention to throw, directly or indirectly, any thing in the shape of impediment on the measure which the Noble Duke and the Administration had i❑ contem plation. If Noble Lords thought that no one would have said " Not content" to the Bill which had just passed, provided no measure of relief was intended to follow, they deceived themselves.—(Cheers.)—Much as he had to re gret in the proceedings of the Catholic Association, much as Noble Lords had spoken against it, yet, from the exer tions which. that body had given to their cause, nobody could doubt that they had advanced it. It had been as serted—but he begged leave to deny the accuracy of the remark—that the Association had retarded their cause in the opinions of the people of this country.—(clear, hear.) —He was fully satisfied that the Catholic Association had done infinitely more good than evil, and would contend that, bad the Association never existed, Ireland would have been in a much worse condition than it was at the present moment. The best and most effectual way to put an cud to the Association would have been to have allowed the claims long ago ; and he now trusted that no improper appeal to the feelings of the people would prevent the Noble Duke from carrying into effect a mea sure so well calculated to produce peace and unanimity in Ireland. Lord GOSFORD observed that he certainly should have said " Not content" to the Bill which had just passed, if he had not believed that a Relief Bill would follow. Under any other circumstances, he should not have sanctioned that Bill.—(Hear.).—lt was the price that was paid for one of the greatest measures ever produce! in this country —a meAure which he was persuaded would bring peace to Ireland. Several Noble Lords, after Lord Gosford sat down, called on Lord PLUNKET. His Lordship then rose, and spoke nearly as follows:—Nay Lords, I should not have thought it necessary to take any part in the discussion which has arisen in consequence of the petition which the Noble Marquis has presented to your Lordships from the Protestant Noblemen and Gentlemen of Ireland. I should not have risen to take any part in this discussion, I say, my Lords, if it had not happened that I have been so very particularly alluded to by the Noble Lord on the cross bench, on a former evening, and had not my conduct been so severely commented upon, in respect of the part that I took in the situation which I had the honour of hoLling. My Lords, I think I owe it to myself not to let pass those observations without making sonic remarks. I own, my Lords, that I was the more surprised at the observations which fell from the Noble Lord in my absence, as I had been present in this House, I believe, on the day preced ing, when a discussion took place with respect to the As sociation. Being then present, and the Noble Lord being also is the House, I was ready to answer any charge which might be brought against me ; but the Noble Lord did not then attribute any negligence in the persons who formed that Bill (the Unlawful Association Bill of 1825), nor any neglect in the persons who formed •the Go_ vernment iu putting it into execution. It Was, therefore, some surprise to me, on the following night, to find that the Noble Lord had made those very severe, and I will take the liberty of calling them those unjust observations, which he did not think necessary to make in the course of the discussion at which 1 was present. My Lords, before I proceed more particularly to animadvert on what has fallen from the Noble-Lord, I beg leave to say a few words on the present Bill which has passed your Lordships' House. lam not sure that 1 agree in my view of the necessity of passing it, for any of the reasons which have been urged by Noble Lords who have spoken on the subject, although I entirely agree with the measure for the suppression of the Catholic Association. (Mean.)—l think the measure is necessary fur public tran quillity. But although necessary for public tranquillity, yet the principles in which I concur in passing the Bill, are not exactly those which have swayed others—vie., that it is necessary to pass it for the purposes of safety. I asu satisfied ; from the great measure which is to be intro duced, that it never will be necessary to act upon this Bill. (Hear, hear.)—Nevertheless, I think it right that this Bill should be passA, as it will prevent the possibility of the revival of that Association.—( Hear.) The views that I have taken are views not exactly the same that others entertain. I do not think, as some Noble Lords have stated, that the Catholic Association has led to any dis turbances, or any breach of the public peace. Ido not think that any such object was intended by the Associa tion; nor any revolutionary motives at the bottom of their proceedings. The object is of a different kind. My Loids, in consequence of a feeling of a common grievance which has annoyed all ranks of the people of Ireland, the people—in pursuit of a common object, the relief from that grievance—have allowed, by a necessary course of things, a body to have au ascendancy to wield the energies of the State, which ascendancy has lucre ised with the wants of the people. The body had grown to a condition in which the original foundations of Govern ment were usurped. They had the people in Ireland at their command. They could mould them as they pleased, they could make them subservient to their own purposes, be they good or.be they bad. Such a state of things I be lieve to be incompatible with the safety of the State, and I concur with Noble Lords' that it is essential to have the accompanying measure. When that measure is passed, this Bill will never be required to be enforced. I take the measure as an accompanying measure, and 1 do most sin cerely return my thanks to the Noble Duke who has brought it forward. I think it essential to the public safety. We cannot but perceive that the Association has exercised a power and authority seldom or never witness ed. They have exercised a degree of despotism never ex perienced in the annals of history—a despotism over public opinion, of which no parallel can be found..—(Hear.) — They have, it is true, now voluntarily dissolved themselves. I give them credit for it, and I think it shows that they are grateful for the measure which was announced from the Throne. It would be ungracious, to say the least of it, but I will not suppose it of them, to attempt to avoid the laws. But I know, from my observations of human nature, that no persons ever relinquished power and re turned to all the privity and obscurity of private life in a state of complete contentment and satisfaction. I think it very likely indeed the persons over whom they ruled may partake, in some degree, of those feelings of disap pointment, and some little dissatisfaction may be ex perienced on both sides. The one party will pro bably feel a degree of disappintment, when the power which they had acquired by agitation and perseverance shall comparatively be taken from them, and not be highly gratified at the indifference with which their claims at last have been allowed. The other party will be still more disappointed. Many persons of that class had formed too high views of the rights and privileges which they claimed exclusively as their own, and will be higlily mortified to find that Catholics and Protestants are now to be placed on nearly the same foot ing. Difficulties, it must be expected, will arise, and a measure such as that now passed, therefore, is absolutely necessary—not, I will say, for putting down exclusively the Catholic Association, but for arming the Government with power to subdue and Suppress all illegal associations, tween 1824 and 1i525 the Catholic Association had as sumed such a tone and was pursuing such a line of pro ceeding as to become an object of alarm to the Govern ment of the country ; and, under these circumstances, those at the head of the Government found it necessary to resolve on some measure for suppressing the Associa tion. I, as Attorney-General for Ireland, was requested to lend my assistance in drawing up a Bill to that effect. A Bill was accordingly drawn up, which I never looked upon as a legitimate measure, and which I should not have given my consent to but in the expectation that some ulterior proceedings for the removal of Catholic disabilities would be brought forward. And here I must be allowed to appeal whether I did not, in the other House, on bringing forward the Bill, state, distinctly and unequivocally, that it ought to be followed by the other measure so essential for the peace and well-being of the country, on the strength of which I supported that Bill? In preparing the Bill I was assisted by the then Attorney-General of England, the Noble Lord now on the Woolsack, and by the present Chancellor of the Ex chequer, then Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant. My Noble Friend and myself were not called upon to frame a Bill such as would please the taste of the Noble Lord who has so unjustly arraigned my conduct. We were not called upon to frame a Bill that would put down public meet ings lawfully assembled for the redress of grievances and oppression, or .other institutions for promoting education or other useful purposes. I would have scorned to lend my aid in framing a Bill to put down any. society which was lawfully assembled for the redress of grievances. The Bill was passed, but the grievances remained. The so ciety continued its sitting with little or no alteration, and persisted in asserting their right to assemble for the redress of public grievances. It was lawful for them to do so ; their sittings were continued from time to time, for the purpose of affording fair and free discussion on all ques tions respecting the disabilities under which they laboured —as well as for the purpose of identifying themselves with the great body of the people, and representing their senti ments and feelings to the world. They did not claim this representation as a right, but, by uniting their interests with those of all the Irish Catholics, by boldly insisting on the redress of all grievances which affected any class of society, they attained their object, and it seas only natural that they should. They, in fact, became the representatives of the people, and brought about a state of things which certainly was unconstitutional, and contrary to the estab lished law of the land, which allows no representatives of the people but those lawfully representing them in Parlia ment. Were the framers of this Bill to blame for this ? Were they to be reproached for not adopting a stronger mea sure, and infringing on one of the most undoubted rights of the subject? They were directed to provide some remedy against the continuation of the society, but they were not direct ed, nor would it have been their duty, to draw up a Bill which would have put down other associations a-sernbled for lawful and useful purposes. This measure, which the Noble Lord has co much arraigned, but which he consi dered so necessary for the safety of the country, passed both Houses of Parliament. The Noble Duke who has had the honour and pride of now recommending a satis fictory settlement of the question will excuse me if I say that, in his speech the other night, he seemed to labour under some degree of error respecting the exceptions con tained in the Bill. These exceptions included religious worship, education, manufactures, &c. These, however, the Noble Duke will permit me to say, were not the causes which prevented the putting down of the Association.— Nor was it owing to them that the me•nbers sheltered themselves from the defects of the law. This arose from a different cause, and any man who has attended to the question, who has witnessed the difference of opinion in the House of Gmunons, and the divided sentiments of the Ca binet on this question, lutist be convinced that these excep tions alone did not form a pretence for evading the law.— This measure passed both Houses of Parliament with great majorities, but it passed, I must be permitted to say, in the belief that other measures were in contemplation; and, accordingly, in tha House of Commons, a Bill was brought in fir the purpose of granting relief to the Ro man Catholics—a Bill not, perhaps, exactly the same as that which is about to be introduced, with such general satisfaction, but in principle, probably, not very different. The prospects held out by this new measure were so satis factory, that I had no wish to offer any opposition to what preceded it. Another important change was to have been produced by that Bill—l mean the disfranchisement of the forty-shilling freeholders. That measure was op posed, as might naturally be expected. It was a measure, no doubt, most ungracious to Englishmen ; but he sup ported it on the understanding, or rather the firm belief that another measure, so necessary to the peace of Ireland, as well as the welfare of this country, was to be carried into effect. That measure, unfortunately, was thrown out in this House; and, but for the rejection of the Bill for the relief of the Catholics, I have no hesitation in saying that the clause for the disfranchisement of the forty-shilling freeholders would, by this time, have been submitted to cheerfully by the Irish people. Whether I shall agree to it now or not I shall not say : but this I declare, that I will not subscribe to it by itself, if unaccompanied by the other great and necessary measure, the removal of Catholic dis abilities. A glorious and golden opportunity for effecting this change in the representation of Ireland has been lost— and, but for the opposition to the Bill of Emancipation, and the hostility to the measure shown by the Noble Lord, and those who join with him, we should not have wit nessed the scenes of disturbance and violence which have since occurred. 11Iy observations, however, are chiefly directed to the Noble Lord who complained that the Law Officers of the Crown had not done their duty. Did the duty of suppressing the Association devolve on these indi viduals?—(Hear, from Lord Longford.)—The Noble Lord has always opposed any Bill for the relief of the Catholics. __("Always," from Lord Longford)—and he has opposed all concession, till the forty-shilling freeholders rose up against him. The Noble Lord had prophesied on the oc casion, or rather on the prospect of a new election for a county where he had great influence—l will nut trust to nay own recollection on this subject, but refer to published documents for statements which I think any prudent man would have refrained from making ; the event exemplifies the truth of my observation.— The Noble Lord had become prophet, and an nounced that those who should start for the county, and at the same time advocate the question of Emancipation, would be utterly disappointed. An Hon. Relative of the Noble Lord, who had often conducted himself with such credit in the other House, with a degree of feeling and taste which reflected on him great credit, stood for the county. It appeared that the relative of the Noble Lord, trusting to his prophecy, had offered himself for a place where his Lordship had such influence, and, without at all taking into account the power and firmness of the forty shilling.freeholders, had attempted to carry his election without regard to their wishes: The candidate was sup ported by the Noble Lord—l beg his I ordship's pardon, it is unconstitutional for a Peer to take any interest, or lend his support, for the purpose of returning any Member to the House of Commons ; but, however, the candidate, I may be allowed to say, was in his interest, and what was the result? He was repudiated from the hustings by a vast majority of the people of the county. So much for identified itself with the people of Ireland ? Was that al question for the decision of the Attorney- General? Does the Noble Lord think that the Attorney-General was to sit down and draw up an indictment against nearly the whole population of Ireland ?—(1-lear.)—I am confident that the course pursued was the best, and that the' Noble Lord is not entitled to c tat blame on me or any Officer of the Crown for the course pursued. This was the course which I pursued from 1825 to 1827, when his Majesty • was graciously pleased to appoint me to the situation which I now hold, and since that time I have not had any occa sion, as an Officer of the Crown, to take any measures to carry the Act i❑to effect. If the law was ineffectual, the fault did not lie with those who framed it, nor with those who, bn public grounds of expediency, did not consider it their duty to bring the case before a Jury. These were the grounds on which I acted after the passing of the Bill of 1825. I considered that the great body of the people were labouring under common grievances, that they had identified themselves with the Catholic Association, and that it was and duty, as Attorney-General, rather to re commend the redress of these grievances than to attempt, at the almost certain risk of defeat, to bring the question to decision before a Jury. The Noble Lord, who does not seem satisfied with the honour which he had acquired as a prophet and a politician, has taken upon him to protest against the measures of Government, has charged the Crown Officers with neglect of duty, and blamed them for not taking effectual measures for putting down the Asso ciation—came forward to assist the Government by the establishment of Brunswick Clubs. God protect the Go vernment from such assistance ! The Noble Marquis who was lately at the head of the Government in Ireland had no need of assistance—nor was there, during his administra tion, any one period when the Lord Lieutenant could have had the least difficulty in putting down the Association if he had judged it prudent, or just, or expedient to do so. The Noble Lord had made allu sion, on a former occasion, to breaches of the peace, to riots and disturb:ince, caused by this Association. Now, I declare that, with the exception of two instances, there has not been a threat—much less an attempt—to create dis turbance.—(hear, hear.)—One of these instances occurred during the administration of the Marquis Wellesley, and the other during that of the N ,ble Marquis who was lately at the head of the Government in Ireland. Orders were issued for simultaneous Meetings—Proclamations were issued by the Lord Lieutenants to prevent such Meetings, and the result was, that these assemblages of the people were effectually prevented. But the Noble Lord thinks that the Government is highly culpable for not putting down the Association at once, and thereby prevent all risk of disturbing the public peace. The Association, no doubt, was dangerous to the Government of the country, and I am glad that a law has been passed to put it down. I certainiy had no favour from the Catholic Association. No man has been more impartially abused than I have bee❑ repeatedly in that assembly. When it was in its full vigour I never withheld my expressions of disap- probation of the violent language resorted to, and now that it is dissolved 1 feel it my duty to do justice to it. It was composed of men of high talents and superior endowments, who, I believe, never bad any wish to disturb the public peace; lint who, on tile contrary, . . - were the chief instruments of preserving tranquillity in Ireland. The public peace was more likely to be endan gered by the course pursued by the Noble Lord and his adherents, who stepped beyond the law, and, in place of having - recourse to argument and reason, attempted to carry their point by uproar and disturbance. The Noble Loril had said much about the disturbance created by the Catholic As:oattion, and the violence of the mail Priests; but let the Noble Lord point out to me a mad Priest in the Catholic Association, and I will show hint a madder Parson in the Brunswick Clubs. Let hint point out any absurd speech from a Priest, or any other member of the Association, abounding with fustian and nonsense, and I will show him his fellow is the Brunswick Association. We have been told that sedition existed in the Catholic As sociation—( Yes, from Lord Longford)—but I say there was more sedition—nay, I may say treason—in the Brunswick Clubs. Why the Noble Lord should express such indig La tion against the Catholic Association, and none against the other, 1 cannot account for on any other principle than that of a paralytic affection. His complaints are all on one side.—(Laughter.)—He comp'ains of the fury and riot of the Association, but tines riot put one stricture against the Brunswick Clubs—(hear)—meetings, where mora violence and uproar, and sedition, have appeared, than in any other, for a long period. If it had been stated in the Association, as it has been repeatedly in Brunswick Clubs, that the King had forfeited his title to the Throne, what an outcry would have been raised against it by those very men who were guilty of the expression ; and with what violence they would have urged the Government punish such seditious language.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Ido not, however, blame the Law Officers for not proceeding against either the one Association or the other to the extent the law allowed. They have pursued a much wiser course, and fallen (m a much more effectual plan for settling the dispute between the conflicting parties. They have adopted' a measure which, I trust, will render all such laws unne cessary, and restore to the country peace and prosperity. The Noble Lord had said a great deal about the fustian and nonsense, and sedition, spoken at the Association: but it is only necessary for him to refer to the speeches made at certain other meetings ; and, if he judges impar tially, lie will admit that the Catholics are not the only rhodomot,taders and seditionmongers. Ile has also com plained of the rent; but is there no rent collected in other Associations?—(From Lord Longford, " No; a subscrip tion.") • I hug the Ncble Lord's pardon for giving it the name of rent ; but it appears that money is col lected, though he says it is not an annual collection like the rent, but a subscription—a contribution for peace-making. And is not the rent for the same pur pose ? Is it not the contribution to assist the Association in carrying the crest question, as well as for other chari table purposes ? I return the Noble Lord my best thanks for his strictures, as well as for his active exertions in es tablishing Brunswick Clubs. The Brunswick Clubs and the Association have alike contributed to the adjustment of the question. The Noble Lord, however, has been as un successful in his last political measure, as he was in his prophecy ; and if Mr. O'Connell claims merit for having brought the question to a successful issue, the Noble Lord is entitled to a share of it—(laughter); end there is only this difference, that Mr. O'Connell has succeeded, and the Noble Lord has failed. I certainly was a little piqued at the strictures made by the Noble Lord during my absence. ((Id have therefore th, , tiglit incumbent on me to make these observations. I may, in conclusi,n, recall to his L rd ship's recollection, that it is lunch more easy to be an emi nent critic than a good performer. One requires much disastrous, and dangerous to the country, and calculated to create disaffection and rebellion. He did not think that sufficiently strong measures had been adopted for putting it down, nor that the measures adopted had been properly' carried into execution, and he would persevere in his former statement; all this was owing to the two last Administra tions, one of which the Noble Lord Was a Member of.— The Noble Lord had alluded to otter topics, into which be did not think it necessary to foil ,w him. lie bad gone into the great question, and he had taken advantage of so doing to cast imputations on hi.n, for having said that lie was inactive in his official situat;on. The Noble Lord p►ad offered to him advice, l ut h: begged leave to reolind the' Noble Lord that chari ybe ;ins at home; and us to his directions how to steer one's way, and such topics, the Noble Lord might have sp u•ed himself the trouble of givin g them. He was astonished to hear the Association spoke a of in the terms which the Noble Lord used—he said that it met for the purpose of appealing against just gric.- vances, but he slid not believe that the Association did confine itself to just grievances. No one had at right to say that the grievances were just, because it was the law which made them. The law was Protestant, and by that law Catholics were extlttdecl., The Noble Lord asked whether he (the Earl of Longford) was a friend to free discussion. He must say that lie 3-7atii and, perhaps, that the Noble Lord was not in reality . _ truer friend to it than he was. It was to the use of in flammatory topics that he alluded. The Noble Lord had said the Protestant Associations were as lawless as the Ca tholic, but he should recollect that, in J 825, when the Bill fur the suppression of the Catholic Association passed, the Brunswick Clubs did exist then, but the Protestants gave w, v. He was aware that all associations were liable to error, but be believed the Brunswick was as little to be charged with errors as any could well be. Their aim sac to act in favour of, and not against the laws of the country. (Hear.) He had been accused of prophesying, but other persons bad indulged in that vein, and their - predictions had not been fulfilled. In some of their speeches, which dazzled, at the same time blinded the public eye.—(Here Lord l'lunket said something across the table which was not heard, and to which the Noble Lord seemed to assent, and passed on to another topi , ;.) The Noble Lord bad been pleased ti advert to the conduct of one of his relatives, but the plain fact was, that his relative, having been returned by a particular interest in a county, changed his opinion, and that that interest became unwilling to re-elect him, and be had the spirit, :is he could not come in on the same in terest, not to be chosen by any other.—(Hear.)—That was the whole case. The Noble Lord was quite wrong to place Protestant and Catholic Priesthood with equal right, when the latter had no place in the Constitution. - He had said thus much in reply to the Noble Lord, though he felt he was not equal, in two minutes' preparation, to reply to his speech of ten days' consideration. The Duke of WELLINGTON was unwilling to take a part in the discussion, hut he found it necessary, in conse quence of a passage in the Noble Lord's speech, to say a single word fhe Noble and Learned Lord stated that, when he brought in the Bill, in 1823, for the suppression of the Association, he had understood it was t o have bee❑ fol lowed with one of concession. Lord PLUNKET—I beg pardon, I did not mean to s.,y so. What I intended to say was, that. it was lay cx pectation.—(Hear.) The Duke of WELLINGTON.—That exactly what 1 was gong to say. My Noble and Learncl Friend, if he will allow me to call him so, could mean nothing else. My Noble relative, who was at that time at the head of the Government, mentioned something of the kind in a paragraph in one of his letters ; but, with refer ence to the fact itself, I must distinctly say the Govern ment of Ireland did not propose that another measure should follow that in question. I think it right to say so much for the Irish Govelmneut of that period; as I am satisfied, if their word was in any way engaged, they would have fulfilled it. Lord PLUNKET again repeated that he meant he had merely the expectation. The Bishop of BATH and WELLS presented nine pc titions from Somersetshire, against Catholic Emancipation. Lord PLUNKET presented two petitions from parishes in Leinster in favour of the same measure. Adjourned at a Quarter past Seven. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(LAST NIGHT.) Sir G. CLERK. took the oaths and his seat. Colonel SIBTFIORPE presented a petition frotn the parish of Saxletry, against further concessions to the Ro man Catholics. Sir T. MOSTYN presented a similar petitio❑ from the hundred of Mayler in the county of Kent ; also a similar petition from, toe parish of St. Asaph. Mr. WYNDHAM presented a similar petition from the Archde•aconry of Sarum. On the motion of Sir T. BARING, the petition from the Select Vestry of St. Mary-la-Bonne was referred to the Select Committee on the Standing Orders. Mr. 'DAVENPORT presented a petition from tT,e Journeymen Silk Weavers of the town of Macclesfield, who informed the House that their distresses were much increasing. The Honourable Member said, that the town of Macclesfield, which was once so fast approaching to wealth and prosperity, bad now fallen to a state of incre dible distress, and one might now see 500 or 600 houses unoccupied. He believed that the cause of this distress was the late alteration in the Silk Laws. Those laws were found not to answer, and in such a case the original laws ought to be revived. Sir G. PHILLIPS believed that the petitionems, and the Hon. Gentleman who presented the petition, were ender a great mistake when they thought that the trade tad been injured as he (Sir G. Phillips) believed that the laws had been calculated to produce a contrary effect. He believed that if any respectable manufacturers were examined by the House, they could state that imstea.el of the late alterations having injured, they had improved the silk trade. Instead of the French trade being improved, the manufacturers of that country complained that, the ne v laws had injured them. He considered it far more like!) , that the present distress arose from a too great increase of manufacturers, and from the introduction of machinery, which had lowered the prices. Mr. BRIGHT considered that if ever there was a case ich called fur investigation by the House, it was the .iesent one. Various causes had f een assigned, but 1 c believed that the true one could not be discovered tid the House procured evidence. Sir IL PARNELL, was convinced the true cause of dis tress was, as the Duke uf Wellington lately stated, to e attributed to the great extent to which smuggling w. s carried in this country, but the only means of removi g the distress was, by reducing the present high rate of d uties. —(llean ) General GASCOYNE 7 -1113 , Hon. Frien La just given the most conclusive reason, why a Committee should be appointed, he says the pros nt distres dues not ar be from au alteration of the laws, tut owi a to the est nt x ~,.., ; ,•>