The Sun. — London, England, 1858-06-22 00:00:00

ties committed there, and he desired the admiral on the station to visit the islands to ascertain whether the re ports which had reached the Government were true, and he gave the Peruvian Government to understand that unless they remedied the evils complained of, our forces should liberate the coolies. This had its effect. Proper regulations were made, and the coolies were now com paratively comfortable and happy. He could not but ex press how glad he was that the right rev. prelate had brought forward this subject, because there had been an attempt made on the part of the United States to pro claim that we were, by our traffic in coolies, carrying on a slave trade in fi nitely worse tha n th e African slave trade. He was sure that if the papers now moved for were laid on the table they would go far to remove the misrepresentations that now prevailed on the subject. The Earl cf MALMESBURY said there would be no objection to lay on the table the papers which his noble friend required. The motion was then agreed to. HAINALTLT FOREST BILL. This bill was read a second time. PEACE PRESERVATION (IRELAND) Acr CONTINUANCE BILL. This bill passed through committee. PRISONERS REMOVAL BILL. This bill was read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned at five minutes past seven o'clock. [HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY. PRIVATE BILLS. The following private bills were further considered and ordered to be read a third time :—Athenry and Tnam Railway ; Birkenhead Improvement Commis sioners (Gas and Water) • Dublin and Meath Railway ; North Yorkshire and ' Cleveland Railway ; Redditch Railway;_Stookt Middlesborough, and Yarm Water, and the Stockton and Darlington Railway (North Riding Lines). The Lords' amendments to the following bills were considered and agreed to :—Exeter and Exmouth Rail way; London, Brighton, & South Coast Rail way (Capital, &c.) ; Staines, Wokingham, and Woking Railway, and the Chiswick Improvement. The following bills were read a third time :—Chester and Holyhead Railway; Cleveland Railway (changed from Durham and Cleveland Union Railway) ; Hove Improvement ; and St. Leonard, Shoreditch, Parish. MAURITIUS. Mr. LINDSAY moved an address for returns of the revenue and expenditure of the Government of the Mau ritius during the year 1857 ; of the balances and invest ments in this country of the said Government during the same year; and of any copies or extracts of correspondence relating to an additional grant of 5,0001. per annum by the Government of Mauritius towards Imperial military expenditure.—Agreed to. THE CANDACE, AFRICAN STEAMER. Mr. CLIVE asked whether it was the intention of the Board of Trade to institute any inquiry as to the cause of the loss of the Candace, African cteamer. Mr. HENLEY said it was true this unfortunate vessel was run down by a Dutch vessel bound for Ba tavia, and several lives were loet. The Board of Trade, under the circumstances, had not thought it necessary to institute legal proceedings, as it was the intention of the survivors to do so, and that he had no doubt would be of a very searching description. COMMISSIONERS FOR EXHIBITION OF 1851 BILL. On clause 2, Mr. ALCOCK moved the omission of the clause. By enabling the Government to retain 12 acres in their own hands, they would probably cause great expense in future, and thus they would defeat the professed object of the bill. Mr. SLANEY supported the clause, believing that it tended to benefit the community. Mr. GLADSTONE wished to see the clause some what modified. As it stood the Government could only retain the land for purposes connected with the depart ment of science and art. That appeared to him too stringent, and he thought it would be better to enlarge the discretion of the Government. He thought the hon. member for Surrey (Mr. Alcoclt) could hardly be aware of the eff,ct wh ch would be produc2ol by the omission of the clause. In that case, uadr the first chose the commissioners would have it in their power to exempt themselves from the obligations of the deed which they , had concluded with the Treasury, and they wooll be come possessors of the whole of the beildirge with their valuable c ntente. He thought 60,0001. was a perfectly equitable price for this land. It coneisted of about 124 acres, which cost 4,0001. per acre, or 50,0001. eltogethi.r. A small piece of land was purchased for 2,0001. to im prove the approach, and 2,0001. mere was expended in laying out the road, and 4,0001. per acre was paid for two acres, which formed the site of the road. These inms made together 62,0001., and therefore 60,0001. was a very fair price for the public to pay. Mr. SPOONER said the rig'at hon. gentleman had spoken as if the commissioners were nut trustees for the public. In point of fact they were so, and therefore there was no reason why the Sheepshanks collection should not be placed in their hands. The object of those who wished to have the clause omitted was that the Government should have no more to do with the depart ment of science and art ; and if this second clause were given up, and the 12 acres handed over to the cominis• sionere, these gentlemen would after warde ac; in the matter as trustees for the public. I; was bad in prin ciple for the Government to employ, in any way what ever, the general taxition of the country in the promo • tion of any particular object in which the whole count,e , was not concerned. Mr. COWPER said the hon. gontle,nan who hail ju-t sat down was mistaken in suppo, - -ieg that under Mr. Sheepshanks' ail!, his gallery ceu!d be handed over to the commissioners. Mr. Sheepshanks exhibited the strongest objection to the placing of his collection in the bands of any board, or trustees, or commissioners ; his desire was that his pictures should be taken care of by those responsible ministers of the Crown who had the supervisiOn of the education department. As to the hon. gentleman s views of art and science, it was well known that they were rather ancient, and better suited for the times of the Goths and Vandals than to the pre sent day. (Lloghter) Mr. SPOONER said, notwithstanding the allusion made to the Goths and Vandals—(laughter)—he should not abdicate the function of protecting the tax-payers of this conntrv. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the oljeetions of his hon. friend (Mr. Spooner) to the department of science and art might be perfectly sound and valid, but they had really nothing to do with the question before the house. As he was himself respon sible for the inseetian of this clause in the bi.l, he would briefly state what was the object of it. The Royal COM. missionera wished to dissolve this partnership ; the Go vernment agreed to it, and the commissioners undertook to pay the sum of 182,500/. The commissioners natu ral;y said, " If we pay you this money 37,u must put uc in possession of the property which Ws have purchased." The Government thought it fair; but it happened that a small detached portion of the property was occupied by public institutions and galleries of art which were le! t to the country, and for the acceptance of which the Ministers of the day were responsible. The Govern ment having been bound by Mr. Sheepshanks' the question arose whether they should pay a rent for the location of these objects. The rent would have been very high, as it must have been calculated . npan the original cost of the plot of land ; and it was therefore suggested that, instead of their paying rent, the establishment should remain till the original arrangement was matured, a sum being paid equal to the original price given ,by the commissioners, and not increased by the increased value which the land had acquired in the interval. It appeared to him that the terms which the Gevern ment had made for the public were as fair as any that , could be expected. Teat was the only issue raised by the clause, and all that his hon. friend the member for Warwickshire s..id about the inexpediency of Govern ment interference with , cienee and art, had no more to do with this matter than it had to do with Kensington- Gore. As to the comroirsienrr; taking charge of Mr. Sheepshanks' collection, th:A was simply impossible, They had no more tight to take chareo of Mr. Sheep shanks' gallery, er of the Department of Science and Art than any members of that house. They might as well be expected to take charge of the Home Department. Mr. JOSEPH LOCKE was surprised to hear the right hoe. gentleman say that the commissioners had no right to interfere with science and art. If that were true, why was there a partnerrhip ? (Hear, bear.) It was remarkable that the persons who were at the bead of the department of science and art firmed the Royal Commission. _ _ Sir H. WILLOUGHBY thought the great defect of the clause was that it did not state the precise sum that was to be paid. Mr. H. DRUMMOND thought there was something kept back io this matter. They were told that the com missioners had nothing to do with science and art ; and at the same time they were informed that those gentle men had to provide schools for the people. There was some secret influence somewhere ; there was something that was not fair and above board. Mr. CONINGHAM said if the Chancellor of the Ex chequer wished to advance science and art he c ,uld not do better than assent to the motion of the right hon. gentlemen the member for Ashton for the repeal of the paper duty. _ • Sir G. LEWIS observed that some bon. members ap peared to labour under the impression that this clause was inserted to guard the interest of the commissioners against the public, whereas it was evidently inserted to guard the interests of tha public against the commis sionere. (Hear, hear.) The department of soierca and art was a department which had no connexion whatever, except as a matter of negotiation, with the ,Commis sioners of the Exhibition. MJ. WILSON wou ld su b m it 'o the . Chancellor of tbaE . Exobequ er , in accordance with the sumstion of the ri g h t tion• gentleman the member for the University cf Oinz fqoureds,titohnsiubseenrition of war& to the effect that the land The CR ANCEILt retained for the use of the public. think the word " üb :C . :IR of the EXCHEQUER did not Mr. 1 BARING ;)10t2 language which was usually introdue , e . d into Jr tict i t c" f was u P aen tbe emission of the clause would militate against objtha et in view, Toe clause through committee. theta agreed to, an d t h e bi ll passed Tho house resumed. THE PAPER DUTIES. On the motion for going into committee of supply on education estimates, Mr. M. GIBSON moved the following resolution • . " That this house is of opinion that the maintenan ce of I excise duty cm paper, as a permanent source of revenue would he impolitic, and that such financial arrangements ought to be made as will enable Parliament to dispense With that tax." He thought it m;ght be right fcr him to say, in order to avoid being misunderstood, that in pro posing this resolution, which he had placed upon the paper, he was not opposing tne house going into com- 1 mittee of supply. It was immaterial whether his resolu tion were carried or negatived, so fares regarded the sub sequent going into committee of supply, t..-d he believed, should it he the house's pleasure to adopt the resolution, a motion could be made immediately afterwards to go into supply. There had been some difficulty with re• gard "to propositions such as he bad put upon the paper. He knew that many experienced members of this house entertained objections to unofficial persons presuming to propose in the terms of a motion fiscal changes or the remission of taxes. There were those who thought that such propositions should be left to the financial minister, and that private members coming forward and taking such a course as he took was not conducive to the public welfare. He remembered, when this objection was urged on a former occasion, that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer held that to say that unofficial mem bers were to be precluded from making propositions of this kind was a very dangerous doctrine, and one that the house ought not to sanction. Therefore, recollect ing well the right hon. gentleman's feelings upon this matter, he approached this question on the present occa sion with more than usual confidence. He might be asked why he had not brought forward this question as a substantive motion, but had preferred to connect it with a vote of supply, and his reason was, that he thought that the subject to which this re-olution related Was intimately connected with the resolution about to be moved in committee of supply, "That a sum of money S hould be voted for the purpose of promoting education in England and Wales." He believed that the repeal i v of this duty, which stood in the way of the diffusion of knowledge, was a proposition for promoting education throughout England and Wales. (Hear, hear.) If he were to say that be had high authorities in favour of such a motion as he now submitted, every hon. member would feel the truth of his statement; in fact, if he were to mention the distinguished persons who bad voted for such a proposition he should have to detain the house too long. He was overwhelmed with authorities. The diffi culty he had felt was this, that he could not get anybody to agree to place his opinions in the form of a minute on their journals ; to take the first step towards carry ing hie views into practical legislation. He knew the Chancellor of the Exchequer to be in favour of this motion, and the right hon. member for the University of Oxford had, on many occasions, expressed opinions favourable to such a proposition as was now made. In fact, he had not found any enemy—perhaps enemy was too strong a word—openly avowing himself to be such, to this proposal except the right hon. gentleman the Chan cellor of the Exchequer to the late administraLon. He went, he thought, the length of saying that he con sidered the paper duty a good tax in itself, thereby im plying that it should be continued as a Government branch of our revenue. He was not asking the house to vote the repeal of the tax at this moment, or to disturb the financial arrangements of the present year . ; he was only asking the house to contradict the pro- ' posal that the paper duty was a good source of taxa tion, and that its maintenance was inconsistent with the public welfare. If he were to bring forward this motion simply as a!financial proposal ; simply one for relieving the community of so much taxation, and also of a mis chievous kind of taxation, he should have a very good case, putting aside altogether those important educa tional views which were connected with the subject. He believed he could prove by past experience tbat taxation was one thing and revenue another, and that it was pos sible to repeal taxation, if done judiciously, without per manently injuring the public revenue. (Hear.) No one had more lucidly explained that doctrine to the house than the right homfgentlemau the member for the University of Oxford, for he remembered him telling them that Sir R. Peel, during a period of eleven years, had repealed many taxes and had put on other taxes, but the balance of remission of taxation amounted to 7,000,0001. per annum. But at the end of the eleven years there was not a loss of 7,000,000/. a year, there was a gain of 5,000,0001. a year, thus showing that by judicious selection of taxes to be repealed, he had re :levet' the industry of the country from oppressive burdens without injuring the revenue of the state — (hear, hem)—and, indeed, in the particular matter of the excise duties that eminent statesman repealed at the same time about 1,000,0001. of exci-e duties, and at the end of the pried of eleven years the revenue irons the excise duties wits 1,500,0001. more than before. Thus he proved iccontestibly that taxes starved one another. And though they might be told that Arthur Young was in favour of multiplicity of taxes, he thought that you could get a larger revenue by a few large prin cipal Cutler, and that you could raise your money with :,;he least possible injury to trade, commerce, and manu factures. The paper duty was a most pernicious tax in every point of view, and from a return which he moved for a short time ago as to the number of paper mills in England, it appeared that during the last 20 years the paper mills in Eegland had diminished in number from 525 to 393. He had had the honour of waiting with a de putation on the Earl of Darby, and when that fact was wentioneil to the noble earl he said it was owing to the fact of ativaeced civilisation which caused trade to be carried on by large caeitalists, and so reduce the number of manufacturing establishments. He spoke cf congestion from advanced civilisation, but he (Mr. M. Gibson) thought, with all r.spet,, that the noble earl was mis taken, because, if he were rg.'et, we should see the same effmt in other tranebe= of indo , try. We did not see the same thing in silk, cet.on, or other mills ; they e ere not diminished. but, on the contrary, they went on con stantly increasing, whilst with regard to paper the manu facture was falling more and more into few houses ; and the whole supply of the - United Kingdom must, if they continued this obnoxious excise system, fall into the hands of a few large capitalls.s. The trade required more capital to carry on the paper manufacture than if it were free, and this grad ua4y created tbat congestion of capitol hich was complained of. It min-t be remembered that the manufacture of paper was carried on in rural parts, it was carried on beside the pure streams, and employed the peasantry ; but if this system was continued, they. would destroy ail those small rural paper mills, and would drive the whole paper manufacture into the manufacturing dis tricts, and it would be placed in the hands of persons who used steam instead of the pure water power of the rura . district. The immediate object of his motion was o show the great inconsistency of asking Parliament to increase the vote for education when they maintained this tax, which stood in the way of the diffusion of know ledge among the masses of .the people. How did the duty press ? Not on a large book, where it might be -aid that it was impercept.bly minute, hut on a cheap book, for the amount of duty was large, just in propor tion a; the publication to which it was applied was EX tended in its circulation. A cheap publication, with a large qirculation, was what they required should txet, and that it shou'n be good, if they desired to spread :knowledge among the gre at c'asses cf the community. What was the history of the origin of the paper duty It arose in the tine of Anne, and they would find it was just after newspapers began to be party organs, and to reflect on ministers of the time, and on different party leaders. (Elear.) He remembered that Mr. HalLirn used the words, "the vivacity of the press attracted the notice of the Ministers of the day." A message was hronght down from the Crown, informing the House of Commons that the papers were too free, that they re flected with too much liberality on tho Ministers of the day•and the institutions of the country, and it called on the House of Commons to take some steps to put down these great evil , . The bounEs replied that they wontl endeavour to find out a remedy for the mischif-f. And what was the remedy ? Why, it was suggested that taxes might have all the effect that censorship or actual licensing cf the press bad in oth - er countries ; and for the first time tars on knowledge were invented in comtnittee in that house for the express and avowed purpose of restraining the newspaper press. The taxes iwpooed were the stamp ditty, the advertise ment duty, and the paper du'y, the two first cf which they had repealed. Their position was now reversed ; they were now a'lvccotes for education. In the days when these taxes were iippoeed there were objeclaens roads to the diffusion of knowledge, and therefore, though Vie Parliament of Anne might be c , mistent in imposing these duties, the Parliament cf Viet Aria was inoonsis. tent to continua to retain them. (Hear.) How did the tax affect particular publications ? He found a speech in a public paper delivered by the Secretary for the Colonies tno other day in Hertfordshire. (The honouralS l .e member then read an extract from the speech of Sir E. B. Lytton, detailing the ad vantages of having a pen-.y Consemitive newspaper.) Tills conservative nrgan he hal no doubt bad a large circulation, but if it were as large as was represented it must pay an enormous amount of taxation. If its eir twation was any , hing like 50,000 a day, a•s was repine. sented, he shouid thiok that the amount of taxation was 501. a day ; and if its circulation was 25,000, the tax would be 25/. a day. What a deduction was that to make from the returns of the cowervative cheap news• c P d po a a e : P up i r dr c , t i n e ,o d ht ,:t c ca lr d y: v n i as te addenyPltshei b e I:ta'aeixf i s nt o sot l a a tnl r le g ee e paorfiscuaem;chwt they and a fraction of a farthing ; and this de looting urns, therefore be made from the funds of those who were conductin g that paper. The effect of that deduction was that it rendered it necessary to print the paper on an inferior kind of material, and it rendered the conductors cf that paper unalde to employ the best literary talent, and in all respects prevented the paper being male as good as it would be. If this duty were - repealed the conductors of such a paper would not put the 501. or 251. a day into their pockets, for there were otter cheap papers, and they would be compelled by cernpetition to apply the money to the improvement of the publication. Tiae same argument applied to all cheap ii arature. .Too tax made &leap literature bad litera ture ; it stood in the way of having the best writing and having the best mi• ds employed on cheap literature. Wasnj udicious policy for them, when they were albw ine, cheap periodicals, not to ta!:e care that this cheap ap Lterature should be as good as it c - nild be? Could any paltry considerations of reveilue stand in the way ofb d tlie moral :mprov meet and advancement of t K great ,ht w y of the pope' of country ? Car es ni as of oninion that they maele bad literature ty the operation " Ti • e prohlsm of this most mischievous tax. He said . t eseccially accessary to solve upon the pr neiplo that the bent cf civilisation is to make good things cheap, cannot he solved in England under the paper duty. All literature is teniling to cheapness ; taxed literature to tie cheap must lose some portion of excel eece or involve a io;• , . A revolution has been effected in which sound Lterature might have hither encouragement in the many than io the few, if the government did nct s'anl in the w y," That put in very clear and forcible lan gllaze the pernicious effict of the paper duty on the cheap literature of the country. They had some qualms of conscience when imposing this paper duty, fir they enacted that there sh ou ld b e certa i n exceptions'. They cald that the Holy Scriptures should be exempted from the Paper tax, and they also exewpted the Psalms books and the S , otch C ,nfe.ssion of Faith, and tln they enacted that books printed in the Latin, Greek, Orienta', aLd Northern languages, at the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin, with the consent of the autho. cities, should be exempt from the paper duties. They thought that with the obscurity of the learned languages and the caution of the heads of houses', they might give freedom to those publications. But could anything be more monstrous than that they should tax the village school-books 30 per cent., and exempt these books of the university ? (Hear, hear.) And what were the "Northern languages ?" He fancied the English, or, at all events, the Scotch—(a laugh)—and if that were so, English books did now enjoy an exemption from the paper duty. The society to which he belonged, con nected with the repeal of the taxes on knowledge, placed this little fact in a very terse way. The writer said— " I can see no reasen why the History of the Calmucks' in the original Russian should be entitled to exemption from paper duty, while it applied to the Primer of the artizen's child." If they meant to maintain this ob noxious tax, they ought to have the decency to apply it to all classes alike. An hop, gentleman opposite wanted the books of the University of Dublin to be exempt, and he did not wonder at it. The symptoms of a dying tax were constant claims for exemptions and a yielding to those claims. He was against all exemptions. The taxes should be placed equally and impartially—(hear) —and if they could not maintain any tax without a constant recurrence of drawbacks, they should repeal the tax, and seek for other sources of revenue. (Hear.) He dared say it had passed through hon. gentlemen's minds that he thought to suggest a substitute for this tax, but he declined any such office. It was not his duty, and it would he irregular for him to find new taxes ; and be did not, moreover, believe that they would want any new tax if they repealed this tax. It firmed one-sixty fourth part of the revenue of this country. Could any body say that this great country was reduced to such straits that if taxes to the extent of one-sixty-fourth of the revenue were.repealed it would produce great finan cial difficulty ? No one was so absurd. We were capable of dealing with our financal system, and still maintain. ing the revenue and credit of the country. He was as ready as any one to admit the extreme caution with which they ought to deal with the public revenue, but they ought not to be afraid to condemn this tax because they might suppose that it was not possible to say what substitute could be found. He believed that the other sixty-three parts of the public revenue would swell out so that they would be very shortly equal to what the whole now was. He believed it might be shown in figures that in the very first year there was an almost certain chance of a very large portion of this duty being replaced. But there were economists in that house, and he was sure that they would not see any difficulty in dealing with so small a revenue. (Hear.) Ho did not think the right hon. member for the University of Ox• ford and those who thought with him would find any difficulty, agreeing as they did with Sir R. Peel and the policy which he carried out with such success. He would take some other instances to show the effect of this tax on small newspapers ; but first he would mention that the Times, some time ago, said that they paid 16,0001. to 17,000/. a-year paper duty, and be believed that now they must pay a great deal more. He would refer to the Manchester Examiner and Times, and he had a letter from the editor of that journal, who said that during the last year he bad paid to the State a revenue cf 5,0001. in the shape of paper duty for the privilege of giving his cheap newspaper to the public, and that if that 5,000/ were not taken from him, ho should still sell his paper at a penny, and apply the money now paid for the tax on improvements. He had also a letter from another editor, who paid 2,500/. a year. These were very large sums to be deducted from the proprietary body of small journals of this description, and he did not think it roes eible that cheap papers could flourish and be good and successful unless they were relieved from this most mis chievous burden. A correspondence had recently taken place between a gentleman engaged extensively in the manufacture of paper and the Board of Inland Revenue. This gentleman was very anxious to promote education in his immediate neighbourhood. A voluntary subscrip tion had been raised for a school, and he made the fol. lewing application to the Board of Inland Revenue : The letter was dated in June, 1858, and was from Mr. Rawlings, of Wrexham Mills, and it said that being about to open a day school in connexion with their mills, they bad to ask whether they might be permitted to use the cuttings of their paper free of duty for stationery pear poses exclusively for the use of the schools ; or, if that were not ale wed, whether they might receive a draw back cn paper rendered unfit fir sale by use in the school? And what was the answer? "The commissioners have had before them your application, and I am directed to state that you cannot be allowed to use the cuttings of your piper free of duty, nor to receive a drawback on paper rendered unfit for sale by use in your school " Tito small boon, it did appear to him, might have been granted a ithout any lose to the revenue, bet it was the unfortunate system of excise regulations that any thing new was sure to be rejected. They were guided by old regulations, and every new proposal seemed to them to contain something in disguise dangerous to the revenue. The repeal of the duty would cost about a million a year, but it would do more for the spread of education than if two millions were added to the education vote. There was another branch of the question, namely, the excise regulations, upon which he roust say a few words. What could be so monstrous in a couritrtewhere the great mass of the people lived by their industry, as that they should be obliged to carry on the manufacture of paper under an act of Parlia ment passed in the reign of Queen Anne, and containing no leas than 69 clauses, every one most probably open to more than one interpretation. Was it not also mon strous that throughout the whole of this long act—an act of pains and penalties—there was no definition of what paper was, there being at this moment a litigation going on on that subject. (Elear.) In the same tray every improvement in the manufacture was a matter of diffi culty, in consequence of the fiscal obstructions, Mi. Rasclinson, a manufacturer, asked parmi,wien to use a now weighing machine of great accuracy, which would save three-fourths of the time in many operations, but the Board of Inland Revenue of course refused, and Mr. Rawlinscn was obliged to go on with the old beam and seeks. The same difficulties prevented any cheapening of production, and now when a very small matter turned the foreign trade against hi, matters of this kind came to be of great importance. Mr. Rawlinson further in formed him that in the United Slates, where the manu facture of paper was free from surveillance, it progressed most rapidly, while in this country our restrictions were gradually throwing the trade into the hands of foreigners. The gentleman who manufactures the greater portion of the paper for the Times told biro that formerly he used to ship largely to Buenos Ayres and Me me Video, but that now the trade had all gone to the French and Belgian manufactures. So much di,i this gentleman deprecate the presen, stets of things, that he expressed his fear that even with a rernis• ion cf the duty it would be many years before we could resume a successful competition with foreign countries. Neither could it be raid that the regu lations were preventive of fraud. The Board of Inland fleet-time boasted that nothing could beat them but oribery, but that boast itself was an admission of their imperfectioe. The amount of the paper duty was lit le more than a million, and from that sum a deduction must be reale for all the paper used by the state. That house which paid duty on all its paper, had lately issued a return which required 34 tone, the duty on which was 500/., an arrangement which did not appear to him to be the perlecs tion of human wisdom. He thought, under all the circum stances, they were in a condition to lay dean the prin ciple involved in his resolution, which he begged cc spectfu!ly to subunit to the consideration of the house. Mr. INGRA.II, in seconding the motion, said—Sir, I shall, aWI permission of the louse, .make a few ob servatims on the retoltr ions proposed for ad , ,ption by the right hon. the member for A• bton. I consider the country is greatly indebted to him for persevering in btin;ing to the notice of the house the injurious effect of the paper duty to our manufactures, and in its opera tion as a tax upon knot%loge and education. The paper duty is a trex levied of 10. per lb., with an a iditional 5 per cent. on all paper manufactured in the empire. There is a custom-house duty of 33. per lb. on all paper imported into the United Kingdom, which may be said to be protective duty ; and this fact, we suppose, may . account for the circumstance that so few manufacturers of paper join in the agitation for its repeal. I believe, however, that those gentlemen are somewhat short sighted in their views; but rifler all they have only fol lowed the example set years ago by all the manufac turers of silk and printed cotton goods, who considered custom-house duties as protecting their trade, and there fere of advantage to them. It may be remarked that maritifecturere were Protectionists long before the agri culturigs ; and we have now a rag of Protection ieft with the paper manufacturers under which they imagine they find security. (Float', hear.) Printing paper only pays 11d. per lb., which cannot be considered as any pre tecion to the printer. As I stand in the double posi tion of manufacturer of paper as well as a consumer, I think I shall be able to show the it jurious effects of the paper duty on the public generally, and that the only peesible defence fur its continuance is the revenue derived therefrom. But, in my opinion, the net revenue is so entail as to make it wholly unimportant to the Ex chequer, when weighed with the many evils that the impost necessarily entails upon society. (Hear.) On this point it is, in my op'nitte, the duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to find a better tax as a substitute, if a substitute be necessary ; and if called upon, I think I could propose a much better tax. (Hear, hear.) In the condemnation of this tax we are supported by the opin ions expressed by the present Chancellor of the Exche quer, the noble lord the President of the Board of Con trol, the right hon. baronet the head of the Colonies, the right hon. the member for the University of Oxford, the nettle lord the member for London, and many other dip thaguished etatestnen and sound political economists This ohjectionable tax, therefere, cannot long continue; it has no defenders of its prenciple, and is inevitably doomed. It has varied in amount per lb. since it was first proposed, and up to 13:32 war 3 1. per ib. on printed paper. Immediately on the reduction from 31 to lad. the lb. the consumption of the article doubled, and its price was c dpr o ,ull, n ttiy s l i i, d cii)ac e f r et i i b na, l l y s7e reduced, Paper with adu'y of 31. per ib. was charged to the public; the sane quality, with a i t t ,P s f a u t. 7 l ,„ u d n ty o f w r h o a b m s e hadbought e n . ) , :ve S s l i n O d i s e h r e affisbs been v e t a t t e e ) riteatts of diffusingeeneiderable Mot elation to the purple. 1 We may therdere fairly conclude that the entire abeei• tree of the duty would produce proportiondli beneficial rAul'. I have here, sir, a publication circulated among the working people an ountirg to nearly half a million per eve' k, paying a duty of 30 per cent. on its coot of pro duction. If this publication paid no duty it would be cons id era bly improved in its character el usefulness, and produce greatly increased benefit to the population. The duty paid on a three-volume eovel ds not 1 per cent. Having quoted letters from publishers of various cheap journal-', deprecating the continuance of the paper duty, the ben. member proceeded to say : The regulations cf the excise involve an extra expense of at least 2,000/, per annum, beeilcs decreasing the quality of the publication. I now come to a higher authority—the Ceentniesioners of Excise—respecting the parer duty. Hero ia a blue bock lately placed in the hands of all the mockers of tha holm, in which the commissioners state the increase of trade caused by their new regulations respecting draw backs on pieces of waste papercut from envelopes. (Hear.) Here no doubt was a great increase of trade created by the means alluded to; but they must recollect that it was only after considerable agitation and speeches from my self and others that they consented to take such a step. (Cheers.) If the commissioners think they give such facilities to get the drawback, and do so much to increase the trade, let us hear what the trade say upon the ques tion generally. The following letter is from Messrs. Ward and Lock. (Here the hon. member read the let ter complaining of numerous delays incidental to any application for drawback,) I will now trouble the house with a letter from Messrs- Chambers, who have done so much to give instruction to the people:— " Edinburgh, May 15, 1856. " Dsar Sir, —Along with this we band you a short statement respecting the pressure of the paper duties on our publications. You will observe that during 1855 we used 378,3501b5. of paper, cos ing 11,7801. lle. 3d., and that in this price was included an excise duty of 2,482/, 18s., such duty being about a fifth of the actual cost of the paper. Nearly all our publications are of a cheap class, designed for popular instruction and im provement ; and the price of paper if by far the heaviest item in producing works of this kind. Although the duty is 14 per pound weight, with 5 per cent. additional, it is our belief that practically the price of paper is en hanced fully 23. per pound weight, by reason of the duty and attendant excise regulations. This is upwards of a fifth in the price of most printing papers. So heavy an increase on the price of paper acts discouragingly on all our operations. We are constantly prevented from entering upon schemes for issuing cheap publications of an improving tendency from no other cause than the pressure of toe paper duties. Some years ago we issued a series of instructive and entertaining tracts at a penny and a halfpenny each. The sale was enormous, and we should hope some good was done. After issuing as many as 20 volumes of these tracts, we found that the state had received 5,0001. of paper duty, while our pro fits were nothirg, and we accordingly were compelled to drop the work, although the sales at the time were 80,000 weekly. It is chiefly from such facts that an adequate idea can be obtained of the damage done to literature throughthe pressure of the excise duty on paper. Of the injury done to trade generally by this tax on produc tion it is not necessary for us to say anything.—We are, sir, your obedient servants, "W. and R. CizeilißEES. "Herbert Ingram, Esq., M.P." I will here remark that the quantity of paper distributed by these gentlemen and by the proprietors of the London Journal is considerably greater than all the Bibles and Prayer Books distributed by the clergy and the Bible and other religious t o ieties put together, and, be it observed, the amount of the latter publications is increasing. (Hear.) Nearly six parts out of seven of all paper made is printed paper, and the paper used for Bibles and Prayers is not more than 14 per cent. of the printed paper used—showing, I think, a great remissness some where in the church. (Hear, and Laughter.) No draw back is allowed on the A B C book for the poor child, or the spelling-book ; without the duty those books would be decreased in price one-half. (Hear.) I state my full conviction that you would do more g ,od for the education of the people by a repeal of the paper duty than by granting the large amount placed on the esti mates, which will no doubt be voted this evening. (Hear, hear.) Let us look at the question as a manu facturing question only. In doing this, let us take a glance at other branches of industry formerly subjected to excise duties. We will take, for instance, the printed calico duty, repealed 30 years ago. At that time it was objected that the tax was so small that a printed gown was scercdy affec ed in its price by the extra duty for printing. Now, what is the result Why, that a printed gown sells for c nsiderably less money than the duty formerly paid, (Hear, hear.) The manufacturers and printers at the time defended the duty. What has been the effect on our commerce in this repeal of the excise ? Why, our trash; has iscreased by millions, and we have so improved in our manufactures that we beat the whole world in cur prints i goods. (Cheers ) Tee last raanufac• Lure fret d from excise duty was the duty on glass. Now, the repeal of this duty has exhibited in a marvellous way the advantage of freeing our manufactures from the de pressing influence of the exc:sernan. The quantity manu factured increases enor.nou.ly every year, and our export trade inc•reaees In proportion. Without the repeal of this duty we should not have seen the Crystal Palace of 1851, and the great trade now done in this country in every description of glees manefacture, and the employ ment of many thousands extra of the population. If this house should agree to a repeal of the paper duty I have no doubt many more manufactories will spring up, and it is peculiarly an employmentsuited for the rural district , . I also think that vegetable fibre produced from the land will be extensively used in the manufacture of paper. Lately a roil! for the manufacture of paper from twitch was established in the county of Lincoln. I will take the liberty of reading a letter from the manager oa the sub ject: " We have toots collected about 1,200 tons of twitch, and our doing so has tended to promote the interests both of landowners and landholders : —l. By stimulat ing the farmer to clean his land, and asfor A 9 possible to eradicate from it a weed of most extraordinary rapicrty cf growth, and which, while it exhausts the land in a corresponding degree, often chokes and kills the young corn plant. 2. By enabling the farmer, with the money p,id him for his twitch, to buy a really serviceable ma nure, as a substitute for the small and oftentimes very questionable amount of benefit derived from the ashes of burnt twitch—abundance of ashes (when required for turnip sowing, St a.) being produceable from the burning of other weeds, sedge, parings, and rubbish. By those two operations (thus stimulated) of cleaning and ma nurieg, the land will be gradually and greatly improved at small (if any) cost to the farmer at the same time that the value of ails crops will increase. My time being very fully occupied, I have very hastily and imperfectly re plied to your queries ; but I hops what I have written is suffic'eat to answer the purpose you had in view when you wrote.—l am, sir, yours obediently, SAMUEL SHARP. —II. Ingrain, Eq., M.P." Paper is an article used in almost all other manufactures, in wrappieg up articles, and in boxes, it forms a serious amount in the expense to which trade generally is sub ject. Many of our goods can scarcely compete with French manufactures on account of the freedom from paper duty in France. Tnis grievance is complained of in all our manufacturing to weir, Now let us consider the paper duty as a source of revenue. (Tee hon. member read a tabular statement, shoring that the paper duty had exhibited much greater productiveness under the law than the high scale, and continued)—ln conclusion, I would observe that as the question of revenue is the only thing under consideratioe, and as we have no advo cates for the paper duty except on these grounds—l do nay, with the greatest conviction of truth, that the in creased trade, the increased employment, the increased c e - ssumption of taxable articles which would follow from an abrogation of this duty, would compensate for the amount levied by the excise on paper. Ido hope that the house will have the courage and justice to pronounce its opinion that this tax is doomed, and that we shall not stand in the world as the exception in levying texes on the intelligence, literature, and industry c f the nation. Mr. SALISBURY, while supporting the motion, said there was no question in which the working classes of this country took greater interest in than the repeal of the paper cutiss. When canvassing fer Chester, a pledge was universally demanded of him to vote for the motion; end his own opinion was that if any arrange ment could be made for rumoring the duty, it would give universal sati,fictien. Mr. AYRTON pointed out the importance of the mo tion in cmnexien with educe.,'ion, Even the copy books of the children were so heavily taxed that in many school; for the poor the miserable expedient of the slate had to he substituted, so that when the pupils after wards went out into the world they were wholly unable to write with pen and paper. He bad himself once thought the agitat:ou for the repeal c f the paper duty unnecessary, but having subsequently gone into some calculations respecting the establishment ofa cheap paper duty was the whole qeestion. The same argument ap plied to all cheap punlications, as the cheaper the publi cation the greater was the oppression of the paper duty. Then with regar 1 to the prebable effeotof abolishing such duties, ho might mention that in Arnerice, where the manufacture eras untaxed the production aid consump tion of paper was treble it was in this country. And there could scarcely be a doubt that if the du'y were taken off here, the production would increase three-fold in a very short time. It was not merely the amount of the duty that was complained of,—a much more serious evil was the interference of the excise. He was told that if there was no excise paper might .be printed as it came from the mill, without undergoing the process of drying and damping, by which a considerable saving both in time and labour would be effected. Probably there was no commodity that entered into the op:ire.- tions of manufactures and trade more largely than paper, and in one instance, and oee only, the statute considered that circumstance a sufficient ground for an exemption from the duty. The paper that was used in pressing woollen cloths paid no duty. But could there be a greater anomaly than to ex,rnpt the paper employed in pressing, while that which was used in packing was chargeahle ? "Filen were many branches of manufacture in which paper was largely consumed, as well as in making woolen cloths. Why should not the duty be remitted in those cases also ? From a return of the applications to, and the concessions made by, the Beard. of Inland Revenue for exemption from the paper duty, he found that paper and mill-board used in the naar?u- facture of pacer macho were allowed toga free of duty, on the special ground that the existing regulations operated is juriouely to the trade. In the same way the commiesiontri had ail)wed the application ia the case of paper ernplayed in making patterns f.:r the Jacquard loam, and a d i a w b ac k was a l e - ) to b e a l owe d on the cuttings of e n velopes. Tee rule appeared be that if the parties were eep , ?cially pemeverial : :, and insisted that the paper used by them wee for the putpcFe of manufacture, the application was allowed. But what diff:ronce was there in p,int of principle be tween paper used for pressirg cloth and racking cloth ? or between that used in the manufacture of papier maebe and that used in making hat-bosea ? He contended that every man who used paper for the purposes of his trade was entitlsd to the draw bach— (hear, heai)—and if the china was allowed to that extent, how could they consistently insist upon the duty upon parr which was used in the highest, the best, and the tro,t, righteous empl)yrnglit to which it cauld be devoted, viz, for the education of the people? (Hear, hear.) A4air, why should prayer-books printed in one form be exempt from the paper duty, while prayer-hooks printe I in another form were charged ? The txernp:ion made is favour t f bibles and prayer books no doubt W 33 originally made because at that time they were the plineipal means of education ; and now, when the means of education were eo hugely ex• tended, why should no t th e e xemption be exEended in the same props rtiot: ? But if they were to get rid cf the du'y in all oases whole it operated as an obstruction to trade, ar:d in ail cases vi here it obstructed progress of education, where were they to go for the paper duty ? (Hear.) Nothing would remain to charge but the waste paper, and really it would not be worth while to keep up all the machinery of the excise for what that would produce. The objection to the ways and means might be met by a reduction in the public expenditure, espe , cially in the army and navy, the cost of which depart ments, which averaged 14j millions a year previous to the late war, now amounted to 25,000,000/. a-year. He trusted that the present Government would exert them selves to bring down the expenditure of the country within reasonable limits, and that they would give an assurance to the house that one of the first benefits re sulting from their adoption of a policy of economy should be the remission of the duty on paper. (Hear.) Mr. COWAN, as a paper manufacturer, could con firm the statement of his right hon. friend as to the effect of the duty on the Export of paper, and though there was now no positive interference with the process of manu facture, there was still a considerable and injurious dis tinction resulting in the system of labelling. The tax operated most prejudicially upon literature, and was most partial in its application. Indeed, it was difficult now to say what was paper. Three or four years ago a gentle man took out a patent for an improved parchment, but the excise interfered, and insisted that the manufac ture was paper, and liable to the duty. The question came on for trial in the Court of Exchequer ; but after a long investigation it was impossible to say whether the article was paper or not, and a verdict having passed for the Crown, a new trial was granted on account of the doubt in which the matter was involved. There was a spelling-book published, the material being cloth so closely woven that few persons were able to detect whether it was the produce of the loom or the paper mill. Was it not, too, an anomaly that cotton waste, which was formerly carted away as refuse, now that it was employed in the making of paper, should be subject to a duty six times the amount of that which was charged upon the cotton as it came originally from America ? (Hear, hear.) He would not advocate any measure that should endanger the public credit, but he could not forget that if they were under an engagement to the public creditor, they were also under a long standing engagement to the paper ma nufacturers and the public in reference to this tax, which ought to be discharged. The paper tax and the soap tax were imposed together as war taxes in the time of Queen Anne. A few years ago the soap duty was remitted, and he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be pre pared to carry out the remainder of the pledge of the Government of Queen Anne by abolishing the paper duty also. The CHANCELLOR of the ErCHEQUER regarded the paper duty as one of those taxes which, as soon as a favourab!e opportunity arose, ought to be erased from the statute-book, Looking at the operation of the tax in a moral, commercial, and literary point of view, he should be glad if he could feel it consistent with his duty to re commend that it be at once remitted ; bu'a like all other remissions of taxation, it must depend on the position of the minister in reference to the stateof the public finances at the time. He could not assent to the resolution as proposed by the right hon. gentleman. To one part of it he could offer no objection, though he could see no great use in making such a declaration. He agreed with the right hon. gentleman that the maintenance of the excise on paper as a permanent source of revenue would be impolitic ; but he could not agree with him that such financial arrangements might be made as would enable Parliament to dispense with that tax. By carrying such a resolution the house would hamper and cripple the Government in a manner which be did not think fair or politic. (He nr, hear ) The paper tax was not the only tax which in the two great sources of revenue derived from innirect taxation required consideration and revi sion. Whether they linked at the customs or the inland revenues, notwithstanding the great changes and ix- pr,vernents which had been made in the mode of raising the means for meeting the public expenditure during the last 10 years—he might say the last 25 years--in these two branches, there was in both much that required consideration and great room for improvement. There were many duties ia the mit mars that did not pay for the cost of collection. No one would say that was a state of affairs which it was desirable permanently to main tain. (Hear.) There were claims too in connexion with the customs revenue, in reference to bonding, which re quired consideration and revision. In the sister branch cf indirect revenue, the inland tssces, there were like wise many subjects the consideration of which could not be delayed, and the revision of which was much re quired, including the whole question of drawbacks and credits. The drawback on paper called for serious at• tention and alteration, and he was not prepared to say that the tsx itis if was not entitled, if not to immediate, at least to early consideration. But the subjscts were so numerous that it would become the duty of the Government to sus jeet both these branches of revenue to an early and searching examination. In the course of the recess the subject would be taken into considera tion, and he hoped when Parliament met for the next session to be in a position to offer some suggestion to the house which he trusted would meet with approval. But he hoped the house would not hamper the Govern ment in the course they intended to pursue by passing a resolution which could not but cripple their a ff,rts to im prove and to simplify that part of the revenue which was derived from indirect taxation. One hon. gentleman who had spoken, and who looked to the remission of this tax more as a matter of course than he thought circum stances justified him in doing, had iudicaOed a reduction of the public expenditure as the means by which any de• ficiency arasiug from such remission might be supplied. He (the Chancellor of the Exchecin,r) had on former occasions urged upon the house the importance of bear ing in mind that great reductions in the public establish ments could not be accomplished in a moment. (Hear.) In the naval and military establishments especially any reduction of importance required a long course of pre paration, and preparation arising from circumstances that were not mere circumstances of routine. (Hear.) The public expenditure of the country—as he had before remarked—depended upon the pubic policy, and it was only by the establishment of a policy that they could I ultimately and considerably affect the expenditure either way. (Hear.) He hoped the policy pursued by her Majesty's G iverninent in respect to their foreign rela• tious had not been of such a character as could give the house any reason to suppose that they were anxious to encourage any vast exoenditure in the naval and military establishments ; and that if by a fair and well considered scheme of economy they could find the means for a remission of taxation they would be indisposed to adopt it. (Hear.) When circumstances in due course would allow such reduction of expenditure no one would more gladly hail such a state of affairs than himself, and no one would be more delighted to propose that redue ti .n in the public burdens which would bo the natural consequence. But he hoped the house would net ham per the Government by p ass i ag a reso l ution respecting any item t of taxation upon which it was obvious that they could not act. It was quite impossible that they could at the present moment deal with the paper duty, What might be their position next year it was impossible to say. Why, then, should they seek to bind the Go vernment in respect to that or any other particular tax? There were various considerations which must operate with the Geverement when they came to deal with the finances of the ensuing year before they could decide upon a question cf this nature. Under any circumstances it would be impolitic and inexpe dient, and practically most ur fair to a Govern• ment which did not seek to conceal its general opinion that this was a tax which ought not to form a permanent source of revenue—(hear)—and which they would be glad of the opportunity to remit, to fetter them by a resolution of this kind. (Hear.) He trusted, therefore, that the right hon. gentleman would be satia fied with having brought the question fairly before the house and the country, and that he would not press the resolution to a division. (Cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT 61 not complain of the right hon. gentleman's speech, for it was much the sort of speech that any Chancellor of the Exchequer might have been expected to make. His right hon. friend (Mr. Gibson) must feel satisfied that his case was now so good that no attempt was made to reply to it. (Hear.) He thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer attached too much importance to the danger of hampering a Govern ment by a resolution of this kind—for he thought if the right bun. gentleman would look back for a few years only he would find an instance where his right hon. friend induced him and many of his friend s to vote for a similar resolution with respect to the newspaper stamp duty, from which no such danger resulted, and the effect of which resolution was to bring about the remission of the duty. (Hear.) His right hon. friend's object now was to put on record in like manner the opinion of the house that when the state of the Treasury would permit it the Chancellor of the Exchequer cf the day, and he (Mr. Brigh , ) hoped it would be the right hoe. gentleman— (hear, hear)—might take this particular tax as the first to be got rid of. (Cheers ) The right hoc. gentleman had referred to the customs duties, but he was no more anxious than his right hoe. friend (Mr. Gibson) or him self to abolish the obnoxious and unproductive duties to which he alluded. It was easy, however, to show that the abolition of a tax of a million in the customs branch of the revenue would not afford anything like the relief to the public that this excise duty of the same amount would give. The paper duty was a tax which operated as a coda of pains and penalties on 300,000 or 400,000 persons who were engaged in carrying on a useful and important occupation. He did not believe it was pos sible for those who had had nothing to do with the ex cise to form an idea of the intolerable nuisance of having an exciseman constantly about their premises. (Hear, hear) They were t.ld that they were living in a free country ; but if they attempted to maen'acture paper, excisemen might come in, go through their premises whenever they pleased, and interfere) with all they did. That was not what freeman in a free country ought to be exposed to. There were 300,000 or 400,000 persons engaged in that trade who had a r;ght to come and ask for a rernisii o n of this duty. Nobody could say that there was any trade more important with reference to instruction, the a !vanoetneet of the people, and to good order, than the trade cf makieg b;eks and newspapers, and 3, et, after relieving the cotton manufacturer from a small tax, you came upon this trade with a tax if a roost Onerous character. Oiie fact had been relate iby an eminent pubii-her, v:z., that in 20 yews he had paid 80.000/. to wri ere and author., and in the same time he had paid 50,0001. to the Government in the shape of paper duty. A million remitted on each of the duties on tea and sugar would not he half the relief that this single million of duty on paper would be. Ile knew a reseectable paper manufacturer in the n eighbourhood of Birrn!ngbani who paid 1201, a year in wages to men whose whole duty was to wait continually on the exciseman. With regard to the question of seitoel books, there was a fact be wished to m ention, aoch, if th e h on. gent l eman the mem b er f or the Uei verAity of D u bli n was preeent, he could bear his testi mony to, th a t ou t of every thousand school books pub lished by that university, and there were none better— ni:t less than 250, cr one-fourth of the whole, were seized by the exc i seman f cr tr io d u ty on paper. was one single fact more he wished to mention before he concluded. His right hoe. friend had referred to a deputation which waited on Lord Derby on this ques tion. He (Mr. Bright) was present. One of the depu • tation was a paper manufacturer in Yorkshire, who stated that just before the recent commercial panic he was in London making a contract for the sale of paper. The cost of the paper at the mill was 4001., while the duty was also 400/., making the cost to the buyer 8001. He had to pay the duty in six weeks. He took a bill at four months in payment on the sale, which had to ran through the commercial hurricane which ensued, and he had to pay 4001. to the excise, which he could only get if the bill was paid at maturity after having to run four months. How could any trade survive a system of regulation like thie by which this trade - was regulated? He was sure that it was not statesmanlike or fair for a Chancellor of the Exchequer to put a million of tea or sugar duties in comparison with the paper duty, which interfered with a great trade in a manner so offensive and disastrous. There were gentlemen present who repre sented boroughs and counties in Ireland, and this was a question of importance -to them. When the duty was taken off, paper could be made of straw, and especially of oat straw, which was better than wheat straw. In Ireland there was abundance of labour and water power, and especially of oat straw, and Ireland therefore offered an admirable field for the extension of the paper trade. It was also the same with regard to many agricultural counties in England, where the trade was now shrinking and coming to nothing. In Buckinghamshire, the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) if he asked the paper manufacturers—if there were any left —they would tell him h )w much it had been destroyed, and how much industry had been garotted by this duty. His right hon. friend had a right to aik the house whether the duty was not so great an evil as to entitle him to ask the house to say that " its maintenance as a perma nent source of revenue was impolitic." The right hon. gentleman asked his right hon. friend to stop there in his resolution. He (Mr. Bright) knew that there might be many gentlemen who agreed in opinion with him on this question, but who doubted whether a resolution should be brought forward which asked a government to act in a particular way when it could hardly act in any way, and he thought that his right hon. friend might fairly stop at the first part of his resolution, and put generally that which the house had done that night, for every member who had spoken had uttered the con demnation of the duty ; and he should recommend his right hoc, friend to agree to the adoption of his resolu tion to that extent. He did not wish to hamper the government, but if the house declared that the paper duty was impolitic as a permanent source of revenue, it would be a great step towards freeing knowledge from the hand of the tax-gatherer ; and he took it for granted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would agree to the resolution if it stopped at the first words ; and if so there would be no necessity for a division. . Sir G. C. LEWIS said he should not have added any thing to this discussion, if it had not been that his right hon. friend (Mr. M. Gibson) had attributed to him an opinion which he had never expressed, and which he had never entertained, namely, that the paper duty, was an excellent duty, and. ought to be maintained at all hazards. Ho had never expeessed such an opinion. Mr. M. GIBSON—My right hon. friend has misre presented me. I did not state that he said that the paper duty ought to be maintained at all hazards, but only that it was a good tax. Sir G. C. LEWIS—What he said—and it was said in the course of a financial statement—was that, com paring the paper duty with other duties, it did not appear, looking to the circumstances in which the country was placed, that it was expedient that it should be repealed. lie had a distinct reccllection that he said no more than that comparing it with other duties there was no reason for placing it high amongst [hose which it was expedient to repeal. When his right hop, friend said that he called it a good duty, would his right hon. friend undertake to name one good duty in the whole list cf our taxes, or one, whether it was among excise, customs, or direct taxation, to which objection might not be made? Every duty was attended with its own disadvantages, and was, by its very nature, an evil and an inconvenience to the community. But what a Chan cellor of the Exchequer had got to do was, to take into consideration those duties to which the smallest number of disadvantages attached. From that point of view they had to consider whether the paper duty was one which ought to be abolished. They had been told that the income tax was to be repealed in three years, and that statement had been rece.ved with great approba. tion ; but it so, you mutt abandon five millions of direct taxation. A question tnigbt C. en arise, not whether it was possible to remit indirect taxes like the paper duty, but whether i: would not be necessary to impose other direct taxes to replace the income-tax. When the preposition was made for the prospective repeal of the income-tax, he (Sir G. C. Lewis) made the same obj7ction which he did now, that the house had bound itself to a reduction of taxation. When it was known that there was a sur plus, that was the time to consider what taxes were to be remitted. He should rejoice when the time arrived that such a reduction could be made ; but till that time did arrive, he could see no advantage in the house tying itself down by prospective resolutions like the present. Mr. DRUMMOND said he should like to double and quadruple that tax which you called the tax on knowledge. (Laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL, who was very indistinctly heard, was understood to say that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that this tax was one of the few remaining excise duties which, as being vexatious, ought not to be kept up as a permanent source of revenue. With regard to Bevel al excise duties,it had been found that after their abolition the revenue continued as large as before, and he believed that their abolition gave a spring and an impulse to the general revenue. But as to the ox act time for repealing this or that tax, great latitude should be given to a Chancellor of the Exchequer. He thought that this was not the exact mo ment for such a step. When a Chancellor of the Exche quer was calletlion to repeal a tax, he ought to have before him the whole of the customs and excise duties, and on a review of them all, to ascertain which would cause the most benefit to the public by its repeal. There was a question which had been touched on by the hon. member for Birmingham, with regard to which he (Lord J. Russell) differed in opinion with that hon. member. The house would recollect that last year the then Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed that the income tax should be kept up at 7d. in the pound, and that, instead of Is. 3d., the duty on tea would be la. 51, ; and that there should be a proportionate increase in the duty on sugar. This year we had a'lowed the income tax to fall from 7d. to stl. in the pound ; but we had kept up the duty on tea at ls. 53., and also retained the proportionate increase in the duty on sugar. It was almost a matter of good faith when next there was a reduction in taxation that the duties on tea and sugar should be reduced, which were in fact war duties; and there could be no greater claim for reduction of taxa tion than in those articles of consumption which entered so largely into the comforts of the people. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, when ho was in office before, was of that opinion; and he (Lord J. Russell) was sure that if there was a duty of is. on tea, the increased consumption would soon lming up the revenue. He hoped the Chancel lor of the Exchequer would take these taxes into consi deration. Re trusted his right hon. friend would not press his resolution, as it stool, on the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, but would leave out the latter part, and be satis fied with the declaretion contained in the first paragraph, " that the paper duty ought not to form a perm anent source of revenue," and as the amount was so small it would pro bably be one of the first taxes which would be repealed. Mr. M. GIBSON said that as he understood there was no objection to the first part of his resolution, namely, that the retention of the paper duty was impolitic, he would withdraw his resolution, and move " That in the opinion of the house the maintenance of the excise duty on paper as a permanent source of revenue was impolitic." Mr. BASS said he apprehended that if this motion was agreed to it did not commit the house to the opinion that there was no other tax equally oppressive. (A. laugh.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER--In assent ing to this motion, I must express a hope that the house may be allowed at once to go into committee of supply, and proceed with the vote on education. Tho original resolution was then withdrawn, and the amended motion having been put, Mr. BENTINCK said, before the question was put he wished to say a word. He hoped that it was clearly un lerstood that the resolution meant nothing. (Leughter.) The motion was then agreed to. SUPPLY—EDUCATION. The house then went into committee of supply. The first vote was 663,435/. for education. Mr. ADD ERLEY said that after the very extensive powers of by-legislation which the house had entrusted to those who had charge of this subject, it had a right to Ex pect a very explicit statement from the responsible officers. So strongly had he been impressed with what was due to the house on that score that from the momen t o f hi s en tering upon the duties of the office he ha 1 the honour to hold, he had lost no time in snaking every effort by which this by-legislation could berendered more open to Parlia ment. In saying that much, he hoped it would not be understood that he took credit to himself for arranging and codifying the by-laws of the Committee of Council on Education. That labour had been most admirably per formed, however by Mr. Lingham, the successor of Sir K. Shuttleworth, who had devoted much time to the subject and than whom the public had not amore efficient servant. The minutes of council, from the Oast appointment of the committee, were now in the hands of hon. members not only chronologically arranged, as they were two years ago on his own motion, but codified. Now the whole amount of the vote was 66 ?,003., which could be divided under the three following heads :- -157,0001. for building and furnishing schools, 400,0001. for training various kinds of mas t ers, and 57,0001. for the management and inspection of the schools, which included the staff. It would be seen that there was an increase in this vote of 83,0001. as compared with that of last year, and he had to appesl to the com mittee to say whether that increase was not a matter of entire satisfactiOn. With regard to the increasing amount of this vote, he would at once say he was not one of those who took a gloomy view of the question, and th ought the vote would one thy assume the most formidable propor tions. On that point, however, he would submit his cal culations to the commitee. From the first commencement of the system, they had expended in building schools the sum of 1,000,00 I. That sum insestal in school buildings and furniture, he would put at 6 per cent. as an annual charge to the Treasury, amounting to 60,00:1. The cur rent expenses annually were 5:;0,0l0/., and therefore the whole expenditure on account of edue igen was 56 ),0001. per annum. The number of children in the schools war 80),0v0. Now, taking the paopullaastsiounmoinfgEtnhgalatnodn,e-Nelrigailietsh, and Scotland at 21,000,000, m of that number would be children within the age of education, that nunsber would be 3 ,000,000. Deducting from that number those who were educated in private schools, or who bel , ngsd to the upper classes, there would remain about 2,000,0d0 children to be dealt with by those schools. If, therefore, a sum of 40 ,000/. was the an nua l charge for the Es; u ea ti on of 800,000 children, an easy sum led thew to the result that 1 , 41 _0,00C/. would suffice for the education of a ll t he children whom they could p r sibly expect to come to the schools. But in that case a great economy could ho effected in the normal and training schools, and he had great seven to hope that a sum of 1,030,€001. would prove abundantly sufficient to meet all the wants of the system they had created. He was happy to say that he belieyEd the question could noses- be discussed upon party grounds in that 'house. Whatever difference the! e might be among them as to ti e mode in which the end should be attained, there could be, and there was, he believed, none as to the end in view. It would therefore, he believed, be satisfactory to the house to know that the Royal Commission on the subject which the house had agreed to on the motion of his right hon. friend the First Loud of the Admiralty recently requested her Majesty to appoint, was now completed and would be • issued to-morrow. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving the vote. Mr. W. E WART regretted that the right hon. gentleman had not taken a larger view of the subject. He thought that a minister of education ought to place before the house a general view of the question, not only with regard to schools, but with respect to the manner and habits, and effects of school education on the people. In Scotland long hereditary teaching had shown the people the value of education. It was now a part of their nature and habits, and he trusted that it would soon produce the same effect in this country. Mr. GILPIN differed from the right hon. gentleman in they declaration that no man altogethe:depended at present on the voluntary system.' (Hear, hear.) Seeing that the grant was annually increasing, and extending throughout the length and bre a dth of e land, and placing in the hands of one depa r t m e n t an i mmense amount of patronage, Alf he thought it high ti me f or th e h ouse to l ook carefully i n t o the question in order t o ascer t a i n h ow f ar the sums vo t e d carried out the views and intentions of Parliament. One, of the most import a nt l essons th a t t h e working classes, and all classes had to learn was, that it was their duty to edu• cats their own children. (Hear.) He di. • think it could be said that the voluntary princi . f . Without Government aid muc h h a d b een don:, and mash would be done by voluntary efforts, and the danger was that Government a id, wou ld superse d e those efforts. (Fleay.) Mr. PULLER said it was a great advantage to have a body of educated teachers in the country, and their efforts were tellinz, not only in the large towns but in the agricul tural parishes. Mr. MASSEY complained of the withdrawal of the capitation grant from the ragged schools. The minute Of council of last December reduced the grant from 50s. to ss. each child, and the result had Leen most injurious to these schools. Mr. FOX agreed with the hon. gentleman who had just spoken, that the class of persons to whom he referred stood most in need of the fostering hand of those who had the disposal of the public money. Mr. POWELL expressed the opinion that the with drawal of the capitation grant from the ragged schools would be a great hardship ; many of those schools had been founded on the faith of the minute, and it would be ' a breach of geed faith now to withdraw the grants. Mr. LO WE said it seemed to be generally assumed that all which could be done was effected if they provided the poor with the means of education ; if they did not choose to avail themselves of these means the state could do no thing more. He, however, was rather disposed to agree with the honourable member for Oldham, that the government could do more indirectly than directly for the encouragement of education. They should establish prizes numerous and valuable in their eyes. The government could do a great deal in this way, by throwing open some situations, such as messengers, or Post-office letter carriers, to those who passed the best examination. If it was found that a boy, by coming up to a certain standard, could obtain a provision for life, the impulse given to education would not be confined to him or to his competitors, but the feeling in favor of it would be raised amongst all the lower classes. Public companies having large establish ments could also aid in this way. When the lower classes acquired a taste for anything they did not require a government machinery to provide it. The government did not need to provide the means of gratifying their taste for beer; if they had the same taste for education they would soon have the means of gratifying it, and the great object of the house and government should be to ex cite that taste. Mr. BLACK objected to the principle of the present system, which was entirely sectarian. He begged to move tLat the vote be reduced by 14,7511., the increase in Scot land, as he wished to prevent the further extension of the system. Mr. INGHAM considered that the vote fell short of what the country required. The working classes themselves were most anxious on the subject, and when the committee sat some time since to inquire into the condition of the norther/1 mining districts, a proposal was made on behalf of the workmen that there should be a twopenny school rate and compulsory attendance until children reached the age of Mr. COWPER said he could hardly believe that Mr. Black's demand for the exemption of Scotland from the benefit of the vote had been made in concert with other Scotch members. He (Mr. Cowper) objected to any part of the vote being spent in training teachers ; it ought all to be spent in tuition. Mr. BLACKBURN said that the objection of Mr. Black to the mode of distributing the grants in Scotland applied to the whole of the grants. He hoped the amendment world not be pressed. Mr. ADDERLEY said there was no such vote as the one which the amendment professed to refer to. Mr. BLACK altered the form of his amendment, and proposed a eaduction of the whole vote by 14,7511. Mr. BARROW spoke in favour of ragged schools as against means of diminishing crime. The amendment was withdrawn. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress. UNIVERSITIES' OTLAND) BILL. The CHANCELLOR of (SC the EXCHEQUER said he proposed that this bill should go into committee on Friday. SALE AND TRANSFER OF LANDS (IRELAND) BILL. The house then went into committee on this bill ; but Serjeant DEASY and Mr. M MAHON having objected to its being proceeded with at that hour (half-past 11), with the concurrence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer the house immediately resumed. The Durham County Palatine Jurisdiction Bill was read a third time and passed. The Nisi Prius Court (Ireland) Bill passed through coin' raittee. The Vaccination (Ireland) Bill was committed pro forma to introduce amendments. The Copyright of Designs Bill was read a second time. The Stipendiary Magistrates, &c., Bill was read a second time. The Joint-stock Companies Acts Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. PORTEN DIC AND ALBREDA CONVENTION BILL. Sir E. B. LYTTON, in moving the second reading of this bill, explained that its object was to enable the Go vernment to carry out a convention which had been made in 1853 with France, on the subject of the navigation of the river Gambia. The bill was read a second time accordingly. The Cowley's Charity Bill was considered as amended. The Harvey's Charity Bill was read a third time and passed. The Bristol Municipal Charities Bill was read a third time and passed. The Bristol St. Nicholas and St. Leonard's Charities Bill was read a third time and passed. The Art Unions Act Amendment Bill was read a second time. The Publie Grounds and Playgrounds Bill was read * third time and passed. The Jointsetock Banking Companies Bill was considered as amended.. MR. BR'S CMMITTE. The committee to A consißßEder the case of Mr E . Barber, and the question whether he should receive compensation, wail nominated. Mr. S. WORTLEY, however, protested against the principle of awarding compensation under such circum• stances, as he thought it was likely to be a precedent which would lead to great inconvenience. The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the house a , journed at half-past 12. Country Flarket3. CHELMSFO_ Our market this morning w a limited business was done. Wheat, white old, per s. 8. qr.4o 48 Oats, per qr 24 31 new.... 40 48 Pea; Partridge 43 41 old 37 44 Whi te 40 4 2 new.... 36 41 Boiling 4l 4 1 Barley 34 40 Dun 43 4g Chevalier 38 44 Beans, Tick 37 3 ? Grinding .......... 28 32 Harrow ticks 37 4 „' Malt 70 73 Mazagan 34 3,,i Chevalier 72 73 Ditto, new... 34 Si tD—JuNE 18. , as fairly attended, and onif red, NORWICH—JuNE 19. A fair supply of wheat, but the trade was dull, at about 14 to 2s uod,r List week's rates. Barley firm. Other articles difficult to quit. COLCHESTER— JUNE 19. There was a small supply of English wheat, and the late rates maintained. Prices to-day were as follow :—Wheat, white, 463 to 50 3 ; rod, 42s to 46 5; b ar l ey, — s to s ; oats, `63 to 303 ; bean?. Mazagau, 38s to 404 ; middle and small, 42s to 443; pea?, white, 42s to 44s ; grey, 44s to 465. Official Statoment of the Qua:JAW in tho port of London, from t] jun° 14 to June 19, both inch Les of Corn, tze ie following pi sive. received )r ti, from 1 4:1 74 Colchester ----. — 'il r 25 ( Harwich J 298) Leigh tilaidoa 5 4 m 0 74 KIRK' We had small supplii sold at much the same market. 3ALDY—JUNE 19. )s of wheat and oats to-day, which Ls last week. Little barley in the Wheat. First 4G Od Second Third 344 Od I Barley. 1 Oats. Bean& 29s 01 2s 01 03 0 1 27s Od I , 26 3 01 Os 0 I I—s 01 22s OJ og BIRTHS. GRANT--0/1 the 21st inst., at Chest:r-place, Regent'o park, the wife of Thomas G. Grant, Esq., of a son. LUSIIINGTON—On the 113th inst., at Shrub's-hill, Lynd • 'lure, Hampshire, the Lady Margaret Lushington, of daughter. MARTIN—On the 20th inst., at 14, Berkeley-square, t he wife of John Martin, Esq., M.P., of a son. MARRIAGES, MINASI—COOKE —On the 18th inst., at CavershaM, 04. fordsbirp, Frederic James Minasi, of Islington, London' to Eleanor, youngest daughter of the late Gabriol Cook e ' of Norfolk. PINCHES—HOOPER -On the 18th inst., at St. Afark: l6 Kennington, Williatn B. Pinches, Esq., of St. Martina' lane, and i 2, Terrace, Kennington-park, to Eliza I' Hooper, second daughter of the late Robut L. i lo °P er ' Esq., M.D., of Newington-butts. DEATHS. BRADY—On the 15th inst., at 11 azelbrook, road, county Dublin, Elizabeth Anne, the wife of 01° Right Hon. Maziere Brady. COLLIN—On the 18th inst., at Belmont, Michael COO , Esq., of Hastings. DAWSON —On the 20th inst., Mrs. Harriet Dawson, 0f Harleyford-place, and 96, Fencburch-street. LAMBERT--On the 19th inst., at Hastings, Mr. George Limbert, of Leadenhall-market, and 3, Barrett-grovel Stoke Newington, aged CO. ROBINSON—On the 21st inst., at Whitworth, near ROC dale, the Rev. Richard Robinson, formerly of Witham Essex, aged 61. •- - - TIIELLUSSON —On the 15th inst., at Bath, the Hon. Arthur Thellusson, aged 58. LONDON Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG of N o . 132 Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, 14 ° 112, Strand, , in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the collo , of Middleoex, Tuealay, June 22, 1858. 540 , 460 m of and At R. I lionsT by every event Admission at the Roy Cramer, Be: W Al SALT•, at TRITRSDA: CAROL. - Stalls (ntv rnreserved Mars, Pahl! Acre. Q T. L 3 NIGI MUTINY. the continuo CLOSE on purpose. A QT. JA OW Will make tl June 29, at Mr. Charles and ss. ; an, and Co., 201 ‘_.l TIIR TAM MEN' Circus.—Ma admission e Introduced a numerous p ',commencing 'Back, Is. 'lrrr aE l wil une. 1858. T" SAM T"' ARR lent and Frie T HE CI_REM Sax Ballet—Mari the Crystal PETE and ] Royal Mario D R. 3, TIC LECTURES qttarter pa Opel' DR. RAHN' A LHA WALI Mr. W. F. IA the public th Of the ALH. Popular and MONDAY, J Two Perla Commences a tt Y o'clock, Artistes, an Pleasing ente affective Mill entitled Concluding I BORNE IN Brigade. Admission- Si. ; Reserve Private Box Palace, Leic Open from 10 dren under 9 Undo The most litracted and Alhambra Ps N.B.—Sea admissible. IF 0 R B• : .. Parties des mie Plan of tl Illay be obtal The Literal Forms for 4 4.-....._ MT E ASS Place, Lando] Cans on advi N.B. Polie Assured with being deducts BRIT) Empower BR' Empoi Maaos-G Number of Annual it *lentil) upwa Every des4 liflthout part NTEB SOCII VshedlB37. kits been and Policies of a 9 inuring with annual prim the death to er grace. , T HE Empowered ' VI v( - ED3 Wm. Ken Samuel K John Elll4 Profaisor Mesas. CI The next key, 1860. Policy taken satin 18311 1841 1845 1848 ' 1851 The folio national L The Soc Two-thl nve year Its subs( Its love t• one hun Its stint The nor About o Sine* it: Ot three ht For prof Win, 142, 142, Str ON P 1 INCA Yew and ATI atoT free by Tor effects of %uenoes fi Cons of zr Bons. B usual (se( roster-ro , fall-stree The CC to renovs its power sexual tries aria its unval - or four qi The CC lltic remi the vane skin, blot toasilF. I Its actle system 11 Of ill. PERI% teal rem and disel ker box. Bold i Hooper. G. F. W W. FAI cs , street ; Harding 111adialo, L JUNE 22, 1858. J. Zll