The Sun. — London, England, 1858-07-16 00:00:00

THE _ SUN, the filling up, would of course elect a member in their interest, so that the directors would have eight members in the council, and the Government only seven. (Hear.) Unless the nominees of the Crown, therefore, and the P • evens elected by the council came to some amicable ar rangement for dying alternately; it would be impossible to carry out the intention of the clause. (\Lich laughter.) The Reuse of Commons wanted to pat an end to the double government, and to have a single responsible minister for India. Did they get that under this bill ? They did not. (Rear.) Under that clause, which was in troduced at the last moment, without observation almost and which was hardly known to the country—that clauae which had just been referred to by the noble earl opposite, and which he justly described as a clause con verting the council into a Perliarnent—it was impossible that the Minister fur India could be considered as solely responsible, because ha would not have the sole power. (Hear, (Hear, hear.) There was another alteration made last moment, which would also affect the i n tended responsibility that th of the Minister. It was originally Govenor-Generahould nominate e h of they should at council id India, hot it was now should be uneolhated by the council here, that was to OW That affected the re s p onsibilit y of e,Mbyiniastraera. 11r It- e j°: sa th 'vs could he be held responsible when single shilling without the concur he could not spen d a n of the counci l, a lar g e portion of whom were not rseelescated by him, but elected by the council ? (Hear, hear.) The House of Commons, therefore, hal not elected by this Lill any of those great purposes which it had in view. The point with respect to the nomination of the members of council in Lelia by the Governor- General had been greatly misunderstoo I, for it was sup posed that the Governor-General would have the power of ousting the mombera of the council when be liked, and, therefore, of making them bi 7 tools. Bat he could do no secli thing, for they eat for five years, and four years mast elapse before ho could make a single ouulion tion himself. He was of opinion that every officer em ployed in India should look to big own Government to reward him for good services, (Hear.) He deprecated the system of enlisting any man in India who was not to look to his own merits and his own Government for promotion, bat to his friends in the council here. (Hear.) This was a principle altogether inconsistent with good government in India. (Hear.) But he entirely agreed with the propriety of substituting the Queen'e nam for that of the company in the government of India, e and regarded that change as the greatest advantage which could at the present moment be conferred on the coun try. But then it was necessary to consider how to use that power, for if it was not well used, it would be used to the injury instead of to the benefit of the country. He did not deny that there were many parti% cular advantages in the bill, notwithstanding the errors which had been committed. Their lordships would re collect that in the first bill which was irate educed by her Majesty's Government provision was mane for giving representatives in the council to the military and civil services in India. That object was absolutely accom plished in that bill ; and it must be, at all timer, the object of every Government to do that. No c iuncil would be perfect that did nut represent those services. The Court of Directors, as at present, were notoeiously impelfeet in this respect. He understood that there was no member of the court who was acquainted with the civil administration of Madras. It was of the greatest importance that there should be some person in the council acquainted with the financial administration of that presidency. The object of the provision iu the first bill was that there should ba at all times ia the couneil some one who should be able to advise the Secre tary of State, and give him information on every possible subject connected with India. He also thought it de sirable to have representatives who need pot necessarily be connected with any of the particular services of India, but connected with large public constituencies, in the Indian council. Teat constituency represented 50,000,0001. of property connected with India, and there could not be one amongst them who had not at least property to the amount of 2.0001. They were 67,000 in number, and any person seeking to represent them must stand upon his character as much as any can didate seeking the suffrages of a constituency in this country. The bill went even beyond that, for he felt that it was essential to the good government of Iddia and to the safe conduct of public affairs in this country with regard to India, that the council should be a council of weight and authority, and capable of sustain ing and giving assistance to the Minister. There was no greater public object, there was no greater commercial object, to be obtained by this country than the making of England independent of America for the supply of the staple of her greatest manufacture—(hear, hear) — and knowing how little bad been done for the purpose of obtaining that object for the last thirty years, he was desirous of seeing placed in the council representatives of the great commercial towns which were most inte rested in the cotton manufacture, and others who wore connected with the commerce of the country. Re was aware that there would be some difficulty, in the first instance, in managing these elections of members to the council, but if the Secretary of State obtained the con currence of the representatives of the great towns to his measures, he would stand in the House of Commons witha degree of strength which no Minister who ap peared there merely with the support of eight nominees of the Crown and as many nominees of a close corpora. tion, could possess. What did the present bill propose t It proposed that the council should be composed of eight members nominated by the Crown, and of seven nomi nated by the council, and in order to dive them greater independence, they wore to hold the office for life. He admitted that a man who had a fair property for life was likely to be more independent than a man who held it on a more precarious tenure, but it [night happen, as it had happened before, that persona who would not do their own jobs might be tempted to do the jobs of others. The council, as originally constituted, would be one with which the public would be perfectly satisfied, but none of them would be appointed at. a very early period of life. They were dealing, however, with futu rity, they were endeavouring to establish some settled form of government for India, and what he would ask would be the position of the council souse ten years hence, when many of the members must be worn out and effete ? They would be in the position of a conclave of cardinals when a Pope was about to die. Canvassing would be constantly going on fortha succession of these old and respectable men. But the House of Commons had provided that one-tenth of the patronage should be given by the council to the sons of officers in the service. We considered that provision to be utterly unnecessary, because with so many members of the council connected with India, it would be humanly impossible that they should not have a much larger share of patronage than that. But one-tenth was a restriction. The Court of Directors had always the good sense never to give any thing away as a body, because they knew perfectly well that-it would lead to constant jobbing. (Hear.) They gave their patronage as individuals, and on this principle for excellent reasons, they bad always acted, But under this bill constant canvassing would be going on for patronage. These two provisions materially affected the usefulness of the bill. The noble earl referred to the clause which retained—for it did no more than that— that power which was always exercised by the Presi dent of the Board of Control of sending letters to the secret department of the Court of Directors. Now he spoke from experience, and he admitted that there was advantage in affording to that secret committee an oppor tunity of reading those letters, for though they had not the power of stopping them, they bad the opportunity of suggesting, which was sometimes very valuable. This power of advising and suggesting was most important ; it ought to be possessed by the new council ; and the minis • ter of India ought to attend to those suggestions. As the bill stood the Secretary of State might send an absolute order to India which might affect the question ef peace or war. The noble earl (Granville) had referred to the 55th clause ; there wonll be a better opportunity of con sidering it in committee ; but he would observe that they all seemed to be in error in suppot•ing that the troops paid out of the revenue of India cortinued to be paid out of that revenue when they lef: the shores of India and were employe.i elsewhere. (thir.) That was not so ; the pay out of the revenues of India was imrns diately stopped; and this regulation would continuo unless the Secretary of State should, in the most scan dalous manner, take upon himself to act ieher wise. In the Copt of Directors there wao always an honest body to protect the revenues ~1 India against improper charges. For instance, the expedition to China was paid oukof those revenues while the troops were in India, but not after they lefe Indhis ([fear, 'neon)._ In that case this country had the benefit of the c xpediti in, and tee object was not an Indian one. So in the expeditien to Persia ; if India bad chosen to stand on her rights, who might have refused to pay a farthing of that expense. He feared that the operation of the clause as it stood wool I be injurious: Areather .ctattee provided faat notice should be Ova of. a war, and of the points AiZamst which an army was to be uircot , d ; that their lordships would see to be impossible. (II:ar.) As they were now dealing with the question of the government of India in England, it was impossible for him, holding the strong opinions which he di I with reepot to thu actual state of that country, not to state the impressions which had been produced upon his mind by the neferrea tion which they had received during the is t month. He never looked forward to the future in India with more anxiety than be did at the present moment. He felt per featly satisfied that it was absolutely necessary to send to thatimmteYe at the commencement of the cool season, a very large —a much larger force than it was possible — with consideration for other and very grave and vital in terests, to detach from this country without a material change in all our military establishments.. (Hear.) Much more •. however valuable it eitioht be to wield au increased strength of troops , he did not believe that that increased strcugtu would enable us to re-establish plans i. that country, unless we sent with that army a policy intone giblet and acceptable. (Hear.) The first act of her Ma jesty's Government, when her Majesty assume d i n h er own person nominally the direction of the affairs in India, must be in the most solemn manner (and the Queen's word must be sacred) to reassure the people of tnat country with respect to their religion and their ter ritorial riehts. (Rests) That policy mutt he, not to please the House of Common", or to please people OA the host lags—o+', still less, people on the p latform ; it must b e addressed to the minds and hearts of the people of India. We bad to govern India for India, and not so as to please a party at home ; and the new Government ought to make a deearation cf the principles upon which it was to be governed such as might be thoroughly acceptable and intelligible to the people. But liowever good the policy we might declare—however great the additions we might make to our armies—those additions and that policy would fail of their object unless a man was at the head of the Government. of India who had the confidence of natives and Europeans, who was capable of directing military operations, and who, by the weight of his per sonal authority, which in India was everything, was capable of compelling all his subordinate officers to cc operate in his policy and to carry all his plans into ope ration. (Hear, hear.) The Marquis of CLANRICARDE could not concur in all that had fallen front the 11 0 3 / 4 110 ear !opposite, but he bad expressed himself so clearly on the question under discussion, that he felt himself relieved from the neces sity of saying much upon it. The great object which he conceived would be gained by the bill was the removal of the principle of the double Government, which had hitherto acted so prejudicially in our Indian affairs ; but admitting that to be its object, he was not satisfied that it was attained. He considered that the council would still act as a shield against responsibility, divert ing it from the Minister, and assisting him in nothing. It was, in fact, a revival of the Court of Directors, under another name, and in a different form. He complained of the number of the council being fifteen, and said that they were creating so many sinecure places. There were other parts of the bill to which he entertained great ob jection, but he wou d refer to them in detail, in com mittee, He contended that they ought not to disturb I the present system of examination for the artillery in India. If this bill became law in its present shape, not many years would pass before many of its provisions would have to be altered. The Earl of ALBEMARLE said there was nothing in the bill to get rid of the extravagance as regarded the finances of India, of which they had so frequently com plained. They had squeezed 20 millions out of the people of India, and they must either give up that country or maintain it by disbursements from the national treasury. The Earl of DERBY said that as be proposed to go into committee on the bill tc-morrow, he would refrain from saying anything in reply to the ov)s.ervatirens that Mel been insde on the measure until that occasion. The bill was read a second time, and was ordered to be committed to-morrow. The follovsing bills were read a third time and passed —Universities and College Estates Bill ; Confirmation of Executors, &c., Bill; Stanhope and Wolaingharn Rectories Bill ; Eccletsiastscal Corporation Leasing _Bill; Encumbered Estates (West Indies) Amendment BIL. The f were read a second time—Sale and Traoafer of Land (Irtlann) ; iNiavigation Ad van.les (Ireland) Bill ; Prescriptions (Ireland) Bill. Toe Joint Sock Banking Companies Bill pawed hrough committee. The house adjourned at eight o'clock HOUSE OF COMMONS—( ESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Earl of Fife's Estate, Holroyd's Estate, and Sir Benjamin Hall's Es'.ate Bills were read a third time and passed. _ SUPPLY. The houso went into supply. The following votes were agreed to :- 432,9901. for the disembodied - militia. 133,0001. for barrack accammodation. 65,0001; foe the survey of the United Kingdom, and fur the typographical department. 10001. for the keeper of the registry of patents. 20,0001. for the expenses of the Wellington monu ment. CORRUPT PRACTICES PREVENTION Acr CONTINUANCE BILL. On the motion for going into committee on this bill. Mr. V. SMITH complained it was not merely a con tinuance bill, because it contained a clause sanctioning the payments for the cunereyance of voters to the poll. He considered they ought only to pass a continuance bill at that late period nt the session, and not introduce a new principle. Mr. WALPOLE said there were many conflicting de cisions in law respecting the legality of such payments, and he thought it right that advantage should be taken of the bill to•settle many doubtful points, such as defin ing what was a member at an election ; secondly, to alter the remuneration to be paid to the election auditor : at present it was by poundage on the first 1/. spent, and he proposed to pay him 101. up to 2001. expended, and a poundage after ; and .thirdly, to isettle the question of conveying voters to the poll. After some further remarks in which Col. French, Mr. Rebow, Mr. Bentinck, Lord H. Vane, and Mr. Gibson took part, The house went into committee on the bill. On clause 1, which related to the payment of the tra veliiag expenses of voters, Mr. D. GRIFFITHS moved an amendment prohi biting the payment of such expenses. It would open the door to wholealo bribery. Mr. J. D. FITZGERALD supported the clause. Mr. AYRTON considered the law made it illegal to pay voters' travAling expenses, but not to provide conveyances, and he thought such a clause as this would meet the difficulty :—" That it shall be lawful for any person to provide conveyance for any voter for the pur pose of an election, but it shall not be lawful to pay any money or give any valuable consideration to a voter for or in respect of his travelling expenses for such purpose." Mr. Sergeant KINGLAKE said the clause legalised travelling expenses, but the decision in "Cooper v. Slade" laid it down that if the expenses were paid to the voter on condition that he voted in a particular manner it would be bribery. It was, therefore, necessary to avoid future difficulty, that the clauses should go further and specify that such a payment should not be con sidered bribery. Mr. WALPOLE proposed to alter the clause to the effect that it should ee lawful for any candidate to pay the cost of conveyance bona fide incurred in taking a voter to the poll, and that such payment should not be deemed bribery. He should oppose the amendment be fore the c,intnittee. Mr. GREER considered it would be batter to omit the clause altogether. The difficulty might be got over by multiplying the polling places. After some remarks from Mr. H. BAILLIZ relative to the conveyance of voters to the poll in the Orkneys, Mr. V. SMITH contended this clause would open a wide door to bribery. They had declared a ss. dinner ticket to a man who generally expended only is. for his dinner bribery, and there would be as much bribery in the excitement of a man riding iu a first-class car riage who always rode in a third class carriage, or a man's riding in a carriage that always rode in a, cart, as in the dinner ticket. He contended the principle of paying travelling expenses was a very important one, and ought not to have been introduced into a mere con tinuance bill. After some further discussion, in which Mr, Brady, Mr. Lowe, Mr. Whiteside, and Mr. Byng took part, Lord H. VANE urged that conveyances should be provided for voters, otherwise poor voters would, in a majority of instances, bo virtually disfranchised. He thought the suggestion of the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets would meet the difficulties of the case. (Hear, hear.) After some further discussion, The committee divided. Tho numbers were For the amendment 7O Against it 165 Majority —95 The amendment was lost. Mr. STAPLETON then moved an amendment that it should be lawful to convey electors to the poll in coun ties, but not in boroughs. Mr. WALPOLE opposed the amendment. If it was necessary for counties, it was in many boroughs, and he knew of no place where cabs and omnibuses were so much employed for conveying voters to the poll as in the metropolitan boroughs. (Hear, hear.) After some discussion the amendment was negatived. Mr. AYItTON moved an amendment in accordance with his suggestion at an early period of the discussion, as given above. His object was to make the rich seek after the pocr. Mr. KNATCHBULL-HUGESSEN moved in clause 1, line 15, to leave out all after " pay," and insert " travelling expenses to voters resident above one mile from their place of polling : Provided always, tbat such payments shall not exceed one shilling per mile to every such voter for any distance less than 10.milesi, and sixpence per mile fur every additional mile pr3vided also, that if the distance to be travelled by any such voter exceed ten miles, and there be avail ' able railway accommodation, the payments for travelling expenses shall not exceed the maximum rate of fare chargeable on such railway for such distance." Mr. WALPOLE considered that if they imposed any limits, as proposed by the second amendment, they would only increase the difficulty of this ease, and considering the amendment cf the hon. and learned mow her for the Tower Hamlets to be better them his own provision and that of the second amendment, he had no hesitation in adopting it. (Hear, hear.) After some discusEion, in which various hon. members took part, Mr. Clt UF opposed the clause. He was pre Et I) pared to defeat the bill by every means in his power, and continued speaking until he was stopped at 10 mi nutes to four o'clock by the forms of the house, when the Chairman reported progrev, and the house resumed. Tile other orders were unposed of, and the house sus pended its sitting at 4 o'cl.:ck. The hou. - io resumed zet t; SiTP.ERANNUATIP..)Ti BILL. Mr. 3. WILSON asked whether it was the intention of the Government to proceed with the Superannuation Bill during the present session'' . Tne CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, must decline givolg a decisive answer for a. couple of day , . THE EXPLOSION IN WESTMINSTER-ROAD. Mr. BOWYER asked whether the attention of i3ro vernineuthad been called to the dreadful accident which had recently happened over the water, by which a large number of pet suns had been seriously injured. He wished also to know whether it was intended to bring in a bill to prevent the manufacture of dangerous substances within a ccrtaip distance of inhabited house? Mr. WALPOLE said that his attention had been called to the accident alluded to, but he was not aware whether the Legislature could interfere in the matter. .Tue sul.j.ct ', however, receive his best conside ration. ARMY SUBALTERNS. Col. FREESTUN asked the Chancellor of the Ex• chequer if he would be pleased to gr.at him a day to bring on his motion respecting the subalterns of Abe army, which he bad been for the lust four months en deavouriog to effect The CRANCELLOU ti the EXCHEQUER could not then give a decided answer, but would remember the queztion. DESTITUTE POOR. Mr. JOHN LOCKE asked the Pcesident of the Poor law Iliac.' whether it wis the intsritioa of that board, previous to the neat w int, r, to call upon the guardians of the sevLral metropolitan parishes and unions to make better prAlsion for the reception of the destitute poor ,. who have nut committed cri me , i n or d er that the cost of the assistance required for the vagrant poor may be wore equally divid• d amongst the parishes and districts than it appears to be at present, as shown by a parliamentary return, No. 291, of this session, and in order that each parish or union may bear its fair share of this burtben, in conformity with the spirit and intention of the 7th and Bth Vict„ C. 101 ? Mr. S. ESTCO UILT said that the act in question passed in 1844, and tre then Poor- aw Board took measures to carry it into (x:cution. Before anythi ig, however, could LONDON, fRIDAY_ EVENING, JULY. i 3, 1858. 1 -ii done, a select cone , ' -....-. into . "°Por. the -,.. and that committee never , he wu ki na r ,P -ittee was appointed to inquire • , the at , made a a iii,, inferenceopini being that they did not ag ue •nmunicate with the various prove of it. q , hot : iti n e w a 3 most favourable, and dur ing the recess ki -; t h th parties interested, the, iew, if possible, of restoring . ..He knew that such a step next session the iiivi t' 4 Cl e p osition .iii which it was placed by the bill of 1 . 844 . would be looked upon by mat ‘y as one towards a general equalisation of poor - r. ates, izn it he believed that both those who hoped and th c ov e wl.:o feared such a consum mationAT NAPLES. woul o d u b ß e g e re o a N tly su dit upyointed in the result. Mr. DiIIeGLISEI wiehe d to know whether Mr. 1 Barber, the British Consul at Naples, had received any promotion or other mark oft Tpzehation from Govern ment for his great kindness to the English engineers of the Cagliari while imprisone 8, and for his successful exertions in procuring their re lease ? Mr. S. FITZGERALD was so sensible of the zeal and intelligence of Mr. Barbar the it he was not disposed to criocise too severely the ter xis of the hon. member's question, but he could not he 1p reminding him that the zeal and intelligence of Mr. Lyons had also something to do in producing the desires: result, The Government had already recognised the services of Mr. Barber, by sending him, although not a naval officer, to deliver up the Cagliari to the eArdinian Government, when he re ceived their personal thanks. Subsequently Mr. Barber had been appointed, :iubject to her Majesty's pleasure, to a past of double the v aloe to that winch he now filled. PRICE OF GUANO. Mr. CAIRD asked the Under Secretaty of State fur Foreign Affairs whether he would lay on the table a copy of the letter from the agents cf the Peruvian Go vernment on the subject of a reduction in the price of guano. Mr. S. FITZGERALD bad no objection to lay on the table the papers aBked for by tho hon. member. 111;6, 01' 0 U Mr. PEASE asked the President of the Board of Control whether the King of Oude was now in cwtody ; and, if so, whether he was about to be brought to trial Lord STANLEY said that according to the latest ac counts the King of Oude was in custody at Fort Wil liam, but it was not known at what precise time his trial would take place. CHELSEA BRIDGE. Mr. ALCOCK asked the First Commissioner of Works what was the amount of the loan advanced by the Government fur Battersea-park, Chelsea-bridge, and Chelsea embankment, and what was the amount to be deducted for land sold to the railway company and to Chelsea Hospital, or disposed of in any other way, in order that it might be clearly understood by those who desired to remove the toll•bars at Chelsea-bridge, what sum might be required to be raised by an appeal to pub. lie subscription with a view to make up any deficiency (if the surplus land did not fetch the amount due), so as to pay off in full all the money lent by Government for the purpose of this or=at .netrupolitan improvement. Lord J. MANNERS said that the sum advanced was 200,0001., and the annual interest 3,0001., and there were certain liabilities beyond, which had been fixed by Act of Eirlisment in this way. In the first place any sum obtained by the ::ale of land was to be appropriated to the formation of the blidge, then go to the repayment of thc sum due to the State, and if any was still left it was to be devoted to other metropolitan improvements. It Nva3, therefore, quite impossible that any sum could be appro priated to the 1.3(.10f - option of the toll, accruing from the sale of land. Of the land sold 65,000/. worth had been purchased by the railway company, and 16,500/. by Chelsea College ; but charges would have to be defrayed before any portion was available. The loan on Chelsea bridge was 80,000/., und, with interest, now amounted to 97,000/. There were no funds, therefore, available for tolls. THE BOERS AND, THE BA.SUTA.S. In reply to Mr. PEASE, Sir E. BULWER-LYTTON, wko spoke very indis tinctly, was understood to say that there had been such an immigration as that eluded to by the hon. member, but it had not received the sanction of tho Government. With respect to the hostilities between the Boers and Basutas, the last amounts indicated no approach to a termination of hostilities. Sir G. Grey had offered to act as mediator, but it appeared that at the same time the Boers had called upon the South African Republic for aid, and the latter were sending an armed force into the country. HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY. Mr. ROEBUCK wished to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether an arrangement could be made giving him a day for his motion respecting the Hudson's Bay Company. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would endeavour to-morrow, or on Monday at the latest, to come to some arrangement to meet the wishes of the hon. And learned gentleman. SCOTCH TENURES. In reply to Mr. ENTART, Mr. Secretary WALPOLE intimated that it was in tended to bring in a bill to amend the law on tenures in Scotland next session. DUCHY OF CORNWALL TENANTS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in an swering Mr. Roberts, said that it was intended to place the tenants under the Duchy, of Cornwall in a position not worse than that of tenants under the Crown, but by a bill to be introduced next session rather than by a clause in the measure now before the house. NEW CALEDONIA. BILL. : Mr, GLADSTONE inquired whether it was proposed to take the New. Caledonia Bill that evening, and sug gested that, as amendment 4 were to be introduced, it should be rccimunittei for that purpose, and printed with the amendments previous to the third reading. Mr. LOWE asked if the right hon. Secretary for the Colonies would have any objection to lay before the house an estimate of the charge which he anticipated would be cast upon the Exchequer by the formation and defence of this new colony ? Sir E. B. LYrTON, after consulting with one or two members of the Government near him, turned round and whispered a few words across to Mr. Gladet.me, while the Speaker was patting the question on the first reading of a bill. Shortly afterwards, Mr. WYLD repeated the question as to whether the bill wag to be proceeded with that evening. Sir E. B. LYTTON, after another consultation, re plied that it was his intention to move the third reading that evening. CHINESE PASSENGERS ACT (1855) AMEND- tend—whm impartially considered—to a directly oppo- site conclusion ; because it is said with equal plausibility that the very facts that the Sovereign, the Legislature, the courtsof justice, and the centre of administration are to be bung in this city, show that they have greatly contribute' to the importance and prosperity of the me tropolis, aid that if not the principal, they are, at least, among the chief causes of the splendour and power of the city ofLondon. Under these circumstances, one is naturally inclined to ask—Are we, or are we not, to trust to List municipal principle which is so often eulo- gized in tlis house, and of which we are all so proud, as one of tht principal characteristics of our constitution ? What is the value of this municipal principle if it i. limited in its application ? Ought it to be so limited 7 If it is tie duty of a population of 300,000 to cleanse their straits and clear their river, why should not such a duty be tquelly imperative upon a population which may b 3 counted by millions? (Hear, hear.) What be- cornea of that admirable self-government, that system of local administra . .ion of which we are all so proud, to which we appeal so frequently in our legislation, and in the influence and efficiency of which we,llave so much confidence, if when a great trial like the present arrives wa abandon as defective the system of local administra- tion, and we admit the inefficiency of the municipal prin ciple ; giving up all hope of relief from such sources, and declaring that this is a case which must be taken up by the nation, and which must be met by the aggregate resources of the people of this country. Her Majesty's Government having considered thie question without prejudice, and with the utmost anxiety to submit to tho !mugs a proposition which woild be AuequaLe to Liiti ueebtlauli, :41 ti UL OpilllOLl thus Lleld lei au instance which must bo met by local resources. (Cheers.) The object is to remedy or diminish a local inconvenience, and in their opinion means for applying a competent remedy should be provided from local resources. I need scat caly remind the house that, with the exception of a very small portion of the metropolis, which has been under the control of an ancient and celebrated corpora tion, the municipal administration of this great city of London—a city, not only the most extensive of modern times, but greater than any ancient cities of which we have authentic records—is still really in its infancy. In the disagreeable and difficult position in which the in habitants of the metropolis have found themselves during the last six or sight weeks, they have naturally con- trasted the enormous ca en of the evils with which they had to contend with the feebleness of the municipal mac:oinery by which only a remedy could, be provided. \Vu have looked into that question. We have exiroined the conduct of that Metropolitan Board of Works which not much more than two years ago, was instituted by Parliament to constitute the powerful and efficient, municipality of this great city. That body has, how ever, beyond all question, not hitherto proved itself to be very effective in carrying out those works which come within its control. (Hear, hear.) It must at the same time be borne in mind that the period of its existence has as yet been brief, and that although the Legislature has committed to its hands the performance of import ant duties, we have not combined with those duties the power adequate to their due discharge. (Hear, hear.) I cannot but feel that I have -now given a fair and impartial summary of the position in which the Metropolitan Board. of Works has been placed by Parliament. (Hear, hear.) Well, the question then arises, can we invest that body—which occupies the in fluential position of the municipality of this metropolis, and which ie, as a consequence, the body to which we ought to appeal in those instances in which we seek that every grievance connected with the metropolis should be remedied—with powers adequate to the accomplishment of that great work which we are all so anxious to promote ? You will, generally speak ing, find the corporation of a great city like London— the capital of an ancient kingdom—in possession of con siderable estates, and when under those circumstances a large and unexpected demand upon its resources and energies arises, it has the means of raising the funds necessary for the performance of the work which it may be celled upon to execute, We have, however, in the present instance to deal with a corporation which has great duties to discharge, and which nominally is in tru.ted with great powers for the purpose, but which in reality is almost completely denuded of all means of raising a considerable sum of money. In theory, it is true, its members have the power to avail themselves of large resources. They possess the power of rating, and of rating, I believe, to an unlimited extent, the inhabi tants of those districts the affairs of which they adminis ter. The bouts must, however, on reflection perceive that nothing is more illusory than a rate, and nothing more unsatisfactory, no matter how liberal the language used by the Legislature may be, than a retina power whenever a large amount is sought to be obtained. (Hear, bear.) A. corporation being called upon to invest capital to a considerable extent in public works very na turally does not anticipate that it is to be furnished with that capital out of its income. If, indeed, it should happen to be in possession of large estates it might raise the necessary ELM sf money at a moderate rate of in terest ; but in dealing with a simple rower of rasing you must bear in mind that the rate exists only for a tingle year, and that third ire it constitutes, practically speak ing, a seearity upon which no pert on would be disposed to make any considerable advances. (Hear.) When, therefore, a rate is the only security which you have to offer you are in this position, that you can procure only a small sum of money, and that too at a high rate of interest—a result Winch would by no means meet the exigencies of the case with %%Lich we have this evening to deal. (Hear, hear.) Now, the Metropolitan Board of Works have; I am bound to say, given to the ques tion of the purification of the Thames and the main drain age of the metropolis very careful consideration. They have employed in the investigation of the subject a long period of time. They have availed themselves of the knowledge, the science, and the practical experience of the highest authorities. They have arrived, too, at re sults with respect to the subject in the accornplehment of which they place the most complete confidence. They in no way shrink from the responsibility of endsavourieg to effect an object which we all have so much at heart, and which it will certainly become their paramount duty to use every mean: in their power to attain, provided Parliament will only place them in a position in which the remedies which they have in contemplation may be effectually brought into maim). (Hear.) Now, the ex penditure which it would be necessary to incur in order to secure that end—in order to clear our river and to complete the main drainage of the city—is estimated at a considerable amount. It cannot, indeed, be computed at much less than 3,000,0001. ; and now cornea the question, how is that expenditure to be met ? In reply to that question I have to state, in the first instance, that her Majesty's Government propose, for the consi deration and, as I trust, for the final adoption of the house the following scheme. We propose to, take steps by means of which this new corporation to which I have referred, should find itself in the possession of a consider able income—l shall not say of a permanent, but at all events not of a transient character—(hear, hear)—that, in other words, it should have an income at its command for a considerable number of years which will enable it to effect all those objects which we now seek to accom plish. (Hear, hear.) In order to carry out those views we propose that Parliament should interfere and impose a rate on the inhabitants of the metropolis, which shall form a special rate, for the purpose of purifying the river and completing the main drainage of the city—(bear, hear)—a rate which shall be confined to the promotion of those objects only, and which shall be denominated in legislation and practice "the main sewage rate of the metropolis." (Hear, hear.) We propose that it should be, both as regards its amount and the duration of the period of its imposition, a tax which should effect these two objects—namely, that it shell'd supply the necessary funds f ir • the accemplishmeut of the great work wh:ch I have mentioned—the cost of which, as I said before, we cannot estimate at a less sum thee 3,000,0001.-4nd that it should furnish a basis upon which engagements might be entered into, conditions subscribed, and regulations made under the direction of 'competent authorities--to.whoen shall subsequently more particularly refer —by mesas of which at - the ex piration of the period during which the rate may be levied—a sinking fund having been in s imultaneous action—the complete extinction of the whole of the debt which may be contracted for the attainment of the end which we have in view might take place. (Hear.) If that result can be brought about it wil l . in our opinion, be found to furnish a satisfactory solution of the finan cial part of the question. (Cheers.) Now, we are in formed, and I have documents before me which afford no t more evidence of th t a h n e d j el u ei t t i l c t e beef pound, c d n that a rate of o fo ' r a term of 40 years, will be stiteient to provi de funds for the comple tion of the svholelof the main &aloes:a of the metropolis, an I at the same time to. furnish a einking fund which at the end of that period will enable the Metropolitan %are! of Works ',O liquidate the debt which they shall have incurred fit ordet4to carry this scheme into execution. (Hear.) That this result may be arrived a', an appeal— and to nre mind an appeal of a m ost legitimate character —has been made to her slajesty's Govertsment for assist ance. It is not an appeal made on behalf of the Metro• politan 130ard of Works to aid them by an nib-once of Lae piseee 1.11,0144 I,l * t. iu.a i,;a iee. to lie lovtru upon the community generally in meeting any por tion of en expenditure which, although considerable in amount, et still of a locel nature. (Hear, hear.) They simply a'k us to assist them, as we have .beere in the habit of Assisting the proeucutors of public i;orks in almost every portien of the kingdom. (Elver ) The house cannot fail to he a airs teat there is a meehinery in existence through the medium of.which pecueiary aid is extended at a moderate rate of iuterast, for the purpose of promoting public enterprises, such fur instance as the building of bridges, gaols ' and other public institutions, and which else provides the mode ie which those advances should lo repaid. The establishment through whose agency th s is effected is known under the name of the Excheouoebills Lean Commissioners Advances; but its powers, Inlay add, are of too limited a character to enable us to avail ourselves of its interference in the present in stance. Ire propose, however, to a ttain the end et which we aim br means of a neaeleiuery, if not of a precisely similar, at all events of an analogous obaraaer, The house will perceive that if we invest the Metropolitar, Teemed of Worsts with the power of levying a rate of 34, for a period of 40 years, which would amount to about :140,600/. per annum, they would then be in the possession 'of a consider able, though not altogothee s;ornatinent income, and would have it in their power to raise mowy Jtit another diffi culty arises then. Most of those institutions in this mePeos polis whials have large amounts of capital at their disposal are prevented, either by bye-laws or by conditions in their deeds of incorporation and settlement, from lending their capital except upon real securities or upon the security of the public funds. Therefore, they could not lend money to the Metropolitan Board of Works, even be endowen with the poWer of raiiing - 140,0007. a-year .for 40 yea's, and even if they would be satisfied with such seen fit3r,. What we propose ix' that tthe--Government would guarantee the principal and interest of the sums which the fulfilment of p Isr t i t h a e el a task pprdo pi i no m ts ee l I. ) oetss that da ast u t i ho the eG t Metropolitan Board of Works may wish• to raise for the sumo l ov e e n ; Government c g o u n a t r i t n i t o e n e s . ca p 3 :) , ' O nt oo ese , h O r oO otua l li . ncl , provided the Metropolitan Board of W or k s ra i s es this revenue of 140,000/. a-year for forty years, subject to conditions which are contained in this bill, which will place the financial operation under the control of the ITreasury, by which means we shall secure not only the payment of the interest, but also the regular operation of the sinking fund. We propose that we should guarantee these advances up to 3,000,000/. during a term necessary for the construction of the works, at a rate of interest not exceeding 4 per cent., and thus the 140,000/. per annum to be raised will not only pay the interest upon the 3,000,0031., but will pro bably leave the debt incurred by the corporation entirely liquidated. It is possible, indeed, that the Government may not be called upon for a single shilling, for with such ► guarantee, there will be no difficulty in the way of the Metropolitan Board of Works raising the money. (Hear.) By these means the Metropolitan Board of Works will find themselves in possession of a sufficient and adequate in come, not only for the construction of all works connected with the main drainage of the metropolis, but also for a sinking fund which at the end of the term will have li quidated all advances. Such is the outline of the pl,n we propose. Her Majesty's Government having now placed the Metropolitan Board of Works in an efficient position as regards finance--if this scheme be sanctioned by the house—had next to consider what should be their course as to the construction of the works themselves. (Hear. hear.) After having given the subject all the consideration which itg aPninnris—e'd T rt ,, nre tlo - 3 here; Its. desire of shrarlieo,, , from responsibility—we aro of opinion that it would bo the wisest course, if our plan be adopted, to leave the Metropolitan Board of Works iu perfect free dom as regards the construction of the works. We shall therefore propose that all the regulations contained in the original bill constituting the local government of the me tropolis, which require that under certain circumstances it should be incumbent upon the Metropolitan Board of Works to apply for the sanction of the First Commissioner of Works, and under other circumstances to ask for the sanction of Parliament, shall be entirely repealed. (Hear, hear.) We propose to give to that body ample and ade quate means for the fulfilment of the duties imposed upon Thom, and we also propose that they should be left in the full enjoyment, of freedom and of that responsibility resulting from the position in which we desire to place them. The bill provides that the works shall be COM.. Dieted in 5 years—that is, by the end of 1863, and dur ing that period the advances will be repaid. I anticipate, s far as I can at present form any opinion, that upon the whole we may reckon that 600,000/. per annum, or 300,000/. every six months, will probably be required to carry on these works. I bdiovo I have now laid before the house a qence.l outline of tile scheme which we intend to r °corn mOud to Parliainent. There are in the bill many clattses of imp): tince, but thug aro details, and it would not be con venient, for me now to enter upon what are proper subjects for consideration in committee. The house will have to de cide whether the course which we have taken is upon the whcle the most prudent that could be devised, and at the same time adequate to the conjuncture. What we have sought to do is to make the Metropolitan Board of Works a real corporation—(hear)—to invest it with sufficient funds—to endow it with sufficient power, and to give it not only power, but responsibility —a responsibility which cannot be expected unless we leave it perfectly unstiu.ckled and untrammelled. (Hear, hear.) We have endeavoured to reconcile the attainment of these great objects without trenching in any degree upon the national resources in aid of what, after all, we cannot but consider to bo a local work, and so far as we recommend Parliament to sanction any interference on the part of the Treasury we have done so in unison with the general conduct of Parliament in such cases ; and I trust the house will conclude that it is a legitimate and, under ail the circumstances, a prudent application of that power. I have now placed before the house the general features of this measure, and I ask for its leave to introduce a bill to purify the Thames, and to provide for the main drainage of the metropoli , e (Haar.) Mr. ROEBUCK, as a point of order, submitted that, as the bill contained powers for taxing the country, its intro duction should be preceded by a resolution. The CHANCELLOR, of the EXCHEQUER was not aware that there was anything in the bill levying a tax upon the country. (Hear, hear.) The character of the bill went to show that the Imperial resources were not to be applied to this work. Mr. WILSON said the rule was that if a bill authorised the contraction or the guarantee of any loan there must be a preliminary resolution. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted that a main feature of the bill was to guarantee the prin cipal and interest of the money to be raised. The SPEAKER said he was not aware of the form of the bill, but unquestionably if its main feature was to give a guarantee from the public resources, or anything that might by any possibility entail a tax upon the public, it must be preceded by a preliminary resolution. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER feared he could not move a resolution at once. Mr. WILSON referred to the rule which repaired the lapse of at least one day between each stage of a money bill. _ _ . e...... Lord PALMERSTON suggested that the right hon. gentleman should bring in his bill without the clauses re lating , to the guarantee, and those clauses could be added afterwards. (Hear, hear.) The SPEAKER repeated that every bill containing pro visions which did, or by possibility might, entail taxation upon the country must. be preceded by a resolution. There wore many precedents in which clauses of that nature were moved in committee of the whole house, but, not knowing the exact form in which the bill was drawn, it was difficult for him to decide at once apon the point now raised. Mr. GLADSTONE said that in 1813 a case occurred the decision in which established two points—first, that a bill for merely metropolitan taxation must be preceded by a resolution of the whole house ; and, secondly, that the same proceeding was necessary, although the tax should be purely incidental and beside the main object of the bill. Upon the third reading, or some other very late stage of the;Coalsvhippers' Bill, the present Sir B. Hawes, who was one of its fiercest opponents, objected that as a sum of I,COO/. which was to be raised to enable the corporation to put pens, ink, and paper in the thalwhippers'-office, was secured upon the coal duties, it might lead to their continuance for one day longer than would otherwise be necessary—that there would be a tat, and that therefore the bill ought to have been preceded by and founded upon a resolution of the whole house. That point was submitted to the Speaker and to the law officers of the Crown ; and upon consideration Mr. Speaker Lefevro held that the pro visions of the bill for raising this I,ooot. would not enable the authorities to continue the coal duties for a single hour, and that therefore the bill might proceed. At the same time he stated that, had the reverse been the case, the ob jection would have been fatal to the measure. Mr. WALPOLE submitted that in this instance the bill might be introduced without the clauses relating to money, which might be added to it after being passed through a preliminary committee of the whole house. Mr. AYRTON suggested that the same object might be attained by introducing two bills,—one to extend the powers of the Metropolitan Board of Works, and the other to provide for the raising of the 3,000,000/. The SPEAKER said that the standing order which re ferred to the introduction of bills by means of a prelimi nary committee was, " That no bill relating to religion or trade, or the alteration of the laws concerning religion or trade, be brought into this house until the proposition shall have been first considered in a committee of the whole house, and agreed unto by the house." It was impossible to say that this was a bill relating to trade or religion, be cause it referred to the main drainage of the metropolis. It was his impression that if the clauses referring to the raising of the money were guarded by being passed through a preliminary committee of the whole house all that was required by the forms of the house would be accomplished, Mr. WILSON called attention to another standing order, of the 20th of March, 1707, which provided, " That this house will not p roceed u p on a ny petition, mo ti o n, or bill for granting any money, or for releasing or compounding any sum of money owing to the Crown, but in commi ttee of the whole house." That had put the the Consolid a ted F u nd. been gpo i g iven ir,esnh.„mehtesiolgpdhb SPEAKER o i Abn become e n oiE v ni n o ß l e a v b a e i then a l 1 1l questions of gu aran t ee or what ever chargefpoiu. the t main drainage of the uponmetro he question "That leave be Mr. W. WILLIAMS said, that the inhabitants of the m etropolis would receive with gre a t sati s f ac tio n the state ment which had been made by th e Ch ance ll or o f th e Ex chequer, and the principl e s up on w hi c h h e proposed to deal with this subject. Oa behalf of his constituents and on his own he thanked the right hoe. gentleman and the Go vernment for the course whieh they had taken. Mr. AYRTON had also listened with the utmost satis faction to the announcement of the right hon. gentleman ; but he must give the right hon. gentleman warning that between this and the next session he must be prepared to frame a comprehensive scheme, reviewing the whole system upon which the metropolis was taxed. If the metropolis had no claim for aid upon the national resources, it was equally true that the national exchequer had no claim upon the local resources of the metropolis. On grounds of public tranquillity, considering the great number of the popula tion of the metropolis, ho urged upon the Government the necessity of giving to the metropolis a real measure of municipal government. (Hear.) Mr. LOCKE regarded the bill of the Chancellor of the Exchequer as the play of "Hamlet" with the part of Hamlet left out. The bill was understood to be one for the purification of the river Thames, but not one word had been said upon that subject, and he thought that the Go vernment ought to have announced that there was a plan proposed either by the roved of Works or by the Govern ment which the Government would recominaud to the adoption of the house. All that the right honour able gentleman had said was, that he left the subject entirely to the Board of Works. He (Mr. Locke) had, however, no confidence in that body ; and all that the Government proposed to do was to give in creased facilities to that body. In addition to this, he contended that the sum of three millions proposed to be raised under the powers of this bill, wouldnokbe sufficient for carrying not eff , etually the works wir.oi were , ,_c : .- s.try for ttie puritic.utiou of the river. The B ,ard of Works proposed to carry the sewage down to a point which would not relieve the metropolis of the nuisance which was sought to be removed. The bill iu reality meant nothing ; nobody understood it, and the only thing that was clear wag that the Government would place implicit confidence in a board which had hitherto done nothing. Nr. BYNG ten tercil his best thanks to the Chanc liter of the Exchequer and, the Government for having dune ' their best to grapple with the most important subject that could occupy the attention of Parliament at the present time. Ile thought, however, that the Government ought to have kept in their hands the veto upon any measure which might he proposed by the Beard of Works, He thought that the house ought to have had some informa tion respecting the nature of the plan which the Board of Works was about to adopt. Among other things which lie would recommend was that the Government offices in the metropolis should bear their fair share of the taxation which would be necessary to carry out the plans contem plated by the present bill. Mr. KEN DALL objected to the Government guarantee. ing 3,0Q0,0001. before any specific plan had been agreed on, that of the Metropolitan Board of Works having been die ' approved of by the most eminent engineers, who believed that if the sewage were carried to Barking it would be L floated back again to the metropolis. But even if they • succeeded in carrying off the sewage wat ers he wanted to • know what was to be done with the mu d banks ; and, 1 fnrther 2 _ he wished to be informed wbo was obe ClOl4 _- during the five or six years that mt. st elapse before the works could be completed. Sir B. HALL described what had occurred between him and the Metropolitan Board of Works when he was First Cohunissioner:of Works, and went on to state that Captain Buraall, o t a~%vitae; to report . on the subject, had ttairt sv at 7 tfee se*age could'be discharged without float ing back to the metropolis at a Point one mile above Erith on the south side and at a corresponding point of distance on the north. The Metropolitan Beard reselved to adopt a plan based on the principle laid down by Captain Bur stall, and transmitted that plan to him as First Commis sioner. He submitted it to throe eminent engineers,— , Mr. Simpson, Mr. Blackwell, and Captain Gallon,--who disapproved the plan, and suggested another of their own. This plan was sent to the Metropolitan Board ; and he un derstood the plan now adopted by the Board was founded on Captain Burstall's scheme, altered in some respects by two referees. Although the right hon. gentleman had not mentioned this in his statement, he believed the Govern ment had already to a great extent approved a plan and were prepared to sanction a very material alteration in that part of the Act of 1855 which determined that the outfall of the drainage should not be at a point near the metropolis. The point of entail proposed was, he believed, on the south two miles higher up the river, and On the north three miles higher up ; and he thought some explana tion on this subject was called for from the Government. (Hear.) Into the details of the plan submitted he would not go, but he approved entirely the principle that they should entertain none of the absurd projects submitted to the committee upstairs, bat should have the work carried out by means of intercepting see erg to remove the drain age out of the metropolitan urea. The real question was, what was the nearest point at which the outfall should he fixed? And on this most important question he hoped the Government would propose proper safeguards, so that the metropolis should not be polluted by tl.e yell or e e wa,o iaetece. thouge, too, the principle of intercep tion wasono which, above all others, ought to be adopted in any scheme for the main drainage of the metropolis, yet he did not think that mere interception would carry out all that was absolutely desirable. He entertained a strong opinion that some day or other a much greater work must be undertaken, one which could not be borne by the metro polis only—he meant the embankment of the Thames. (Cheers.) Every civil engineer who had investigated the subject arrived at the same conclusion, and believed that this was the only way in which to prevent the exhalations which otherwise would constantly arise from the river banks. (Hear, hear.) As regarded local taxation, the me tropolis was in a peculiar position on this point. To a cer tain extent it possessed municipal institutions ; certain boards possessed certain corporate powers ; but in point of fact, they bore no analogy whatever to corporate bodies existing in other parts of the empire. The hon. member (Mr. Ayr ;on) said the metropolitan taxation was 400,00 W. a-year, but it really amounted to much more. That cal culation did not include the metage of corn and other ar ticles, which was :.t present swallowed up by the City corporation. Now, if those powers of levying taxes were extended over the, whole metropolis and the proceeds ex pernicel for the benefit of the metropolitan area generally, he believed there would be no r ;aeon to complain. As to the means proposed for providing the necessary funds, the 141st section of his bill in 1855, when first introduced, contained the same special provision as that now suggested by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. (Hear, hear.) Re specting the provision by which the approval of the First Commi - ssioner of Works was rendered ;accessary in certain cases, it would have been a great gratification to him if that duty had not been imposed upon him. It was as very troublesome one, and the noble lord his successor in office, was no doubt glad to get rid of it. (Hear, and a laugh.) Lord J. MANNERS said his right hon. friend in intro ducing the bill had contented himself with an exposition of the general principles on which he thought such legislation ought to be founded, and wisely so, because, unless the house arrived at a distinct conclusion as to the general principle which should guide the relations between the Government and the municipality of this great city, it was in vain to come to Parliament with plans either for drain - lug London or embanking the Thames. (Hear, hear.) This general principle .was !that those who had to pay for works should be at liberty to decide what those works were to be—(hear, hear)—a principle embodied in the homely proverb that, " He who pays the fiddler has a right to call the tune." "(Hear.) The right hon. baronet (Sir B. Hall) was jealous, and perhaps naturally so, lest any altera tion should be made by the Board of Works in the point of outfall as specified in the act of 1855. Now, he wss sure his hon. friend (Mr. Kendall) the chairman of the Thames Committee would bear him out in saying that if one thing was mere clearly established than any other in the course of the investigation it was, that you could not arrive at anything like a conclusion as to the point at which sewage matter thrown into the Thames would not return again to the metropolis. (Hear:) He thought some disposition had been manifested during the debate to bring under the no tice of the house all the schemes which had been proposed, or which might be proposed, on this subject, with the view of asking the house to declare its opinion upon such schemes. It must; however, be evident to those who had paid any attention to the investigation of the select com mittee, that it was utterly impossible for gentlemen who did not possess professional and practical knowledge and experience to form any sound conclusion as to the point of outfall at which the sewage might be thrown into the river with the certainty that it would not return to the metropolis. For his own part he must decline the respon sibility of expressing any opinion on the subject. The right hon. gentleman had asked what security would be taken that, whatever points of outfall might be fixed upon by the Metropolitan Board of Work., no nuisance should be created. The point of outfall which had been suggested was Barking Creek, but if any point nearer to the metro polis was fixed upon it had been determined that the sew age should be deodorised before it was discharged into the river. The hon. chairman of the committee who had investigated this subject seemed to think that her Ma. jesty's Government ought, before introducing this bill, to have satisfied themselves what plan, the Metropolitan Boma of Works intended to adopt ; but it was impassible for any Government to satisfy their minds as to arrange ments which required the greatest amount of profes sional skill and intelligence, and with regard to which there was a wide difference of opinion among those who were best qualified to deal with such questions. It would be remem b,red that, in the course of the investigation before the committee, statements were made with respect to other great' cities besides London. It appeared that Glasgow had found itself in almost—if not quite— as evil a plight with regard to the Clyde as that of the metropolis with respect to the Thames ; but he did not find that the Government were asked to dictate to the Corporation of Glasgow in what manner they should deal with the Clyde. The Corporation of Glasgow had availed themselves of the highest engineering and chemical assistance they could obtain, with the view of purifying the Clyde, and abating ' the nuisance—(hear, hear)—and the expense had been defrayed by the people of Glasgow. (Hear, hear.) The principle of the bill which his right hon. friend asked leave to introduce was in direct accordance with this view, for it did not propose to direct in what ' manner the great works which were requi s it e s h ou ld b e carried out. The hon. member for Southwark had asked who were the persons to whom these extensive powers were to be intrnsted. They were the representatives of the people, elected for the purpose of local administration —(hear, hear)—and her Majesty's Government were of opinion that they could not better discharge their duty than by leaving the settlement of this question with those who, for all local purposes, unquestionably re presented the metropolitan community. (Hear, hear.) That was the principle upon which this bill was based, and he believed it to be a sound principle. When he was last in office he had had the satisfaction of settling the interment question upon the same principle—viz., that of giving to the municipal authorities the power of taking such measures as they deemed most advisable for remedying a serious and growing evil. The hon. chairman of the committee had asked what temporary palliatives for the existing nuisance would bo adopted before the great works which were requi site could be undertaken and rendered effective. The hon. member would find that the bill contained a clause giving full power to the Metropolitan Board of Works to adopt in the interval such measures as they might deem necessary for the temporary mitigation of the existing nuisance. Hon. gentlemen would find, when the bill was in their hands, that it had been most carefully and skilfully framed, and that while on the one hand the country would be spared the expenditure of a single shilling for the remedy of the existing evils, on the other hand the metropolis would have the credit and glory of removing, at its own expense, an acknowledged nuisance, in a manner entirely consistent with the habits and customs of this old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon community. Mr. WILSON thought the best and Most economical plan would be for her Majesty's Government to make a loan for this specific purpose and advance it at specified times as it was require I, through the Exchequer Loan Commissioners, who had a perfect machinery for conduct ing such business. By the proposed plan of her Majesty's Government they would have, to introduce a new machi nery into the Treasufy department, which he thought ob jectionable. Mr. J. T. NORRIS considered responsibility in this un dertaking should devolve on the executive body who would have to carry out the works. Ho defended the Me tropolitan Board of Works from the charges of incapacity that had bean brought against them, and corre c t e d an error with reference to the cost of the proposed site for the erec tion of their offices. Instead of 40,00 a., as had been stated, the purchase money for Berkeley-house, Spring gardens, was only 15,00 x. The Metropolitan Board of Works were perfectly capable of carrying out these works. Mr. TITE said that if the sewage was deodorised, it would make no difference whei eit went into the river He had some misgivings - that when the heavy expenses of the undertaking were felt by the ratepayers, attempts would be male to check its progress. but he hoped provi sions would be introduced into the bill tr . ) prevent it. The Metropolitan Board of Works had considered this subject with great diligence and skill, yet he was astonished to fin-1, a few weeks since, that they had postponed its fur ther c insideration till October next, and that led him to think that if a few were selected out of the present ..b.edy, and presided over by the chairman, it would be amore inat;sgea.ble body for carrying out these works. He con -e,r-attilateet the people of the metropolis on the probability of thou grievous nuisance they had had to complain of being speedily got ri , lof. Sir J. SHELLEY expressed his gratification at the in troduction of the bill. All the Metropolitan Board of Works had required all :Jour! 7-1, a fl:ivcrula.:nt guarau ' t,t, a.ad Lid 1... Les :n given earlier ho had no doubt they would have commenced those works some time ago. He thought, however, that the late Government did right in refusing their asseint to tho fir sit plans that were submiti ed to theni. He was anxious to see the work begun, feeling convinced that, many objections to the scheme now before the Metropolitan Board of Works might he got rid of in the course of construction, and there was nothing in the bill to prevent the works being extended to Sea Reach hereafter, if it were found necessary. Mr. sim,HENeesser, having expressed his opinion that the plan laid before the late Commissioners of Sewers by Mr. Bsz Lizette for the drainage of the metropolis was the hest, and having eulogised the general englueerin , ability of that g:.ntleman or, all matte's connected with sewage, skid he thought the house was labouring under an error on the question of outfall. Those who differed most widely on the subject were agreed that, proeided the intercepting system were adopted, it was a matter of perfect indifference whe ther Barking Creek or Sea Reach were the point of outfall. He suggested that the adoption of the interception system should be made imperative. (Hear, hear.) It, was the most comprehensive plan ; it was eilculated to be the most per manent, and he was sure that if it, were partially carried out next year it would produce a most beneficial effect on the river. It was, in his epinion,essential that that system should bo expeditiously commenced and vigorously carried out; for it possessed this I advantage, w hich was exclusively its own, that every s t ep t h a t was takenl would improve the condition of the river. (Hear, hoar.) Col, SPICES expressed his reasot, that a more compre. . • LENT BILL. Mr. LABOUCFIERE called the right hon, baronet's attention to the desirability of laying the papers in refe rence to this bill on the table before they were called upon to discuss Ow measure. S rE. B LYTTON hoped in a day or two to be able to produce them. CH URCII RATE COMMUTATION BILL. Mr. ALCOCK appealed to the Cliancellor of the Ex ichequer to give him either a morning nr evening sitting for bringing in this bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, without replying to the question, moved that the orders of the day be postponed until after the notice of motion for bringing in the Metropolitan Main Drainage Bill. CLERK OF PETTY SESSIONS (IRELAND) BILL, AND DUBLIN POLICE BILL. In answer to Mr. WILSON and Colonel GREYILLN, Lord NAAS said that it was intended to proceed with the Dublin Police Bill as soon as possible. With regard to the Clerk of Petty Sessions Bill, he had consulted the highest authority, and found that if he moved the preli minary resolution in committee of the whole house, and supposing that resolution was carried, they recommitted the bill and introduced a clause founded on that resolu tion, it would be sufficient, and he would, therefore, now give notice to that effect. THE PURIFICATION OF THE THAMES., The CHANCELLOR of the EICHEQUER—I took the liberty of moving that the orders of the day be post poned in order that I might bring under the attention of the house a bill, the object of which is to purify the river Thames. The condition of the Waters of that river has fallen upon the inhabitants of this metropolis as an unexpected calamity ; but I believe there has always been a minority in the community which has expected the catastrophe that has recently occurred ; and I find that several years back, when this house, in pursuit of health, determined that the sewage of the metropolis Val* he diverted to the waters of the Thames, there were some persons of great authority on such matters who foresaw the consequences of that measure. All that they then predicted has been more than fulfilled. That noble river, which was long the pride and joy of Engli , h• men, which has hitherto been associated with the noblest feats of our commerce and the most beautiful passages of our poetry, has really become a Stygian pool, reeking with inevitable and intolerable horrors. The public health is at stake_; almost all living things that existed in the waters of the Thames have disappeared or been destroyed ; a very natural fear has arisen that living beings upon its banks may share the same fate ; there is a pervading apprehension of pestilence iu this great city ; and I am sure I am only taking a step that will have been anticipated when I ask for leave to introduce a bill which will attempt—and I trust the attempt will be successful —to terminate a state of affairs so unsatis factory and so dangerous. (Hear, hoar.) The question arises,—" If this be your object, what is the quarter from which a remedy is to be provided ? Where are we to Zed the t ucans . , and where tha machintry, for attaining these remedial results ?" In fact, the question at once ariatisi,whieb has been asked by everybody in this city during the last few weeks—" Is tkis a local or a national litteitose ?" (Hear, bear.) Now, at the first glance it certainly does appear that the inhabitants of a city should be responsible for the purity of the river that washes its walls ; but then it is urged, aid no doubt with considerable force, that the position of . the city„ of London is of a very pecu'iar character. It- is not merely a city in her Majesty's domieiong, hut it is the, metropolis of her Maj?.sty's dorninione. It is a city of paramount importance. It is said that hee the Court is present ; here the Parliament holds its sit tings ; here are the halls of justice ; here is the centre of administration ; and upon these grounds it is alleged that in a city which includes so many national interests, and where so many national institutions exist, the ineen. venienciea which are experienced should be remedied at the national expense. It is alleged, however, on the other hand, that the very circumstances which are ad duced to substantiate a claim on behalf of this afflicted metropolis to assistance from the national resources hensive plan had not been decided on, and one that would bavo taken in the embankment of the Thames. After some remarks from Sir J. SHELLEY, General CODRINGTON said the most important part of the question was the outlet. Care should bo taken in removing a nuisance from one place that they did,not in flict it, on another locality. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I think that I may congratulate the inhabitants of the metropolis upon the wanner in which, generally speaking, the proposi tion of the Government has been received. So far as we are concerned the measure is chiefly of a financial character, and I cannot say that I regret that the Government have thought proper to limit their interference to the financial part of the subject, (Hear.) One result of the bill will be to convert the Metropolitan Board of Works into a real corporation. It will give them power ; with that power they will feel a sense of duty, and I cannot doubt that a body of Englishmen, elected by a very large and en lightened constituency, will do their duty, and that their conduct will entitle them to the confidence and respect of their fellow-citizens. We have given them great responsi. bility, but we hays also given them considerable resources, and I think that the union will be satisfactory. (Hear.) I will not touch upon the scientific portion of the question, which scarcely comes within the scope of the bill ; but I may tell my hon. friend, who speaks with authority on the subject, that we make it a condition with the Metropolitan Board of Works that they shall effect the object which we desire, that that result shall be attained by the system of intercepting sewers, and that provision shall be made for such temporary and permanent works of deodorisatiou as the metropolis has a right to require. (Hear.) With re spect to the recommendation of the hon. member for De vonport that assistance should be given to the Board of Works by the Exchequer Bill Loan Commissioners, I may say that we did not consider that proposi tion, but that the result of our deliberations led us to a different conclusion from that at which the hon. gen tleman has arrived. I see no roeeee arhntrver shy. ureter this bill any tel vance cf public money need take place. The board will have the power of issuing bonds and debentures, which probably they will do at a fixed rate of interest, and they will obtain for them a sum of money according to the rate of interest in the market. At all events, they will have the power to deal with their own bonds and deben tures, and I have no doubt that they will become a very popular and satisfactory security, supported, as they will be, by the guarantee of the Government. (Hear, hear.) Another subject of importance to which the hon. gentle man called attention was the necessity of considering whether a large and valuable portion of public buildings should continuo to be exempted from rating. So far as I am concerned I think that the principle of exemption is a very bad one, and certainly in financial legislation it should always be avoided. (Hear, hear.) The question (lid come under our consideration ; but as a committee of the House of Commons has been appointed to investigate the whole subject I cannot doubt that we are approaching a time when almost all exemptions from rating will cease. (Hear.) The virtual effect of this will of course be a contribution om the Consolidated Fund, but a contribution on sound principles of finance. The inquiry of the committee, no doubt, has been confined to the poor-rate, but that regu lates all rates ; and I have no doubt, if the decision of the committee is acceded to by this house, that it will in fluence all rates. The gallant general who spoke last seemed somewhat alarmed at the position in which his constituents might be placed, but he will find a proviso in the bill which renders it impossible for the Metropolitan Board of Works to create a nuisance in any quarter whatever ; and, even were there no Such proviso, I believe the courts of law would come to the assistance of his constituents. On the whole, I take a more sanguine view of the probable effect of this measure in a financial point of view than many gentlemen who have spoken. My business being to provide a perfect security for the country, the bill is so drawn that any excess of expenditure, if any there should be beyond the 3,000,0001. h ere empowere d t o be raised, will n o t be covered by our guarantee. It will be necessary, however, for the Board of Works to keep a separate banking account of this rate under the c o n tr o l o f the Treasury, and every security is taken that this 3d. rate for 40 years shall he dedicated exclusively to the purposes specified in the bill. It may at first sight seem a large financial result to be able to construct public works to the amount of 3,000,0001. by a 3d. rate, and at the end of the term of 40 years not to find yourself in debt ; but the cal culation has been made by persons of the highest autho rity, and the house may rely on its accuracy. I propose to read the bill a second time on Monday, and with regard to an objection which has been taken on the point of order, I am empowered to state, on the very highest authority ,that I have made no mistake in introducing it in its present form, and that no stage of its progress need be delayed on that account. (Hear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK said, the great objection to the Board of Works was its present mode of election by the vestries. Before long the people who paid the money would demand to have the power of electing the persons who spent it, and the Government would be called on to alter the constitu tion of the Board in that particular. Leave was then given to bring in the bill, which was subsequently brought in, and read a first time. The Cornwall Submarine Mines Bill was read a second time. LEGITIMACY DECLARATION BILL. The committee on this bill ' was resumed, and tho re maining clauses were agreed to, and th© bill was reported to the house. It was ordered for third reading to-morrow. CIVIL BILLS, &c. (IRELAND) ACT AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. WHITESIDE moved the second reading of this bill. Mr. COGAN moved as an amendment that it be read a second time that day three months. Mr. WALPOLEdefended the bill, of which the intou• tion was to allow the assistant barristers to retire upon pensions when no longer able to discharge their ditties. The objections to the bill might be removed in committee. The house divided, when there appeared— For the amendment........ 52 Against it 97 Majority —36 ' The bill was then read a second time. Tho other orders wero disposed of, and the house ad journed. Country Markets. MANCHESTER—J[7I,Y 15. There was a fair attendance at our market this morn ing, bat owing to the high prices demanded by holders the business passing was very limited. Only the inferior descriptions of English and American wheat could' hay. 1. been obtained on lower ter ms . Fl ou r also a slow sale, $t the currency of this day so'nnight. Oats and oatmeal were firm. English beans 2s and Egyptian is per quarter dearer. Indian corn a fair demand, at previous rates. BIRMINGHAM-JULY 15. At the market to-day there was an increased supply of wheat, and a reduction of is to 2s por qr. on all descrip tions had to be submitted to to effect sales. Barley main tained its value. Oats declined 6d per qr. Beans and peas quite as dear. BOSTON—Jun 14. The market to-day opened with a fair show of wheat, which, with the continued fine weather, causes a slow trade, consequently little business has been done, at a decline of is to 2s on last week's rates. In spring corn little passing, at late prices. Prices :—Wheat, rod, 38s Od to 45s Od; new, —s to —s ; white, 43s Od to 41s Od; extra, 48s. Barley, 28s Od to 33s .1 01. Oats 24s to 30s. Peas, 40• to 42s Od. Beaus, 428 , Od to 45s Od per qr. NEWARK-JULY 14. At our Corn Exchs.nge to-day there was a good attend• ance of farmers and a large show of grain, which mat a heavy sale at late rates. Wheat, white 41s to 495, rod 433 to 455; barley, malting 33s to 3-Is, grindinc , 33s to 31s; oats, 12si. 32s to 345, list, 265 to 28s; beans, 45s to 475; malt, 6Ss to 721; peas, 40s to 425; tares, —s to —s per qr. HULL-JULY 13. A fair supply of wheat, but the trade was dull, at abed is to 2s under the last week's rates. Barley as before. Beaus and peas scarse and rather dearer. Oats steady, and u little more inquiry. - - - Wheat, English red, 44s to 46s ; white 46s to 508; oats. 24s to 288 ; barley, 32s to 36s ; Indian corn, 37s ; linseed ca kes, Hull, 91 103 to 9/ 12s 6d; ditto, foreign, 81 Os to 9/ Os Od ; rape cakes, 5115 s to 6/ 6sod; guano, 0/ to ; bones, Si ios. Od.; flour, —s to --a; tares, —s to —s. GLASGOW—JULY 14. Ffolders of wheat are very firm, and only little doing. , Buyers , held off until they saw the Mark-lane report. Other articles unaltered hi value. EDINBURGH GRAIN--JULY 14. A. full average supply of grain to-day. Sales ready . and prices considerably better. Wheat, on the top, 2a 6d up, and on the average is ld up. Barley, 3s 3d up on the top, and 2s 8d up on tile average. Oats on the top were Os 3d down • and on the average 84 Od up. Beans on the top is , Od up, and on the average is 8d up. AVERAGES PER IMPERIAL QUARTER. Wheat £2 2 11 1-12th. Do. now -12ths. .. ' Barley Oats 'l 8 3 10-12ths. • ---'.." Beaus -12ths. Total Supply and Sales. • Wheat 1465 qrs sold 1235 qrs Barley 314 qrs sold 210 qrs Oats • 954 qrs sold 761 qrs Beans 77 qrs sold 72 qrs BIRTHS, ATPWOOD—On the 14th inst., at Clay-bill, Enfield Mrs. Algernon Attwood, of twin daughters. LABALMONDIERE —On the 14th inst., at 13, SouthAudley. ft street, the wife of Captain Labalmondiera, of a daughter. •• SIaIERIDAN—On the 12th inst., at Bellefield-house, Par son's-green, Middlesex, the wife of Henry B. Sheridan, Esq., M.P., of a daughter. MARRIA,GES, . ' ---Aciuris -On the 14th inst., at the parish ) church of Astbury, Sir Charles Watson Shakerley, 8t.,. ,) of Sornerford-park, in the county of Chester, to Geor giana Harriett, e ld es t daughter of George H. Aekera, Esq., of Moreton Hall, in the same county. HIGGIN- -C AMPB LL On the 15th inst., at St. Saviour's Church, Paddington, John, son of Thomas Housman rfiggio, Esq., to alaigaret Grant, fifth daughter of the late Alexander Campbell, Esq. DEATHS,' CAMPBELL—On the 11th lust., at Kensington, Thomas C. Campbell, Esq., aged 50. DEARMAN—On the 1 th inst., at Sussex-terrace, Win chester, Thomas A. Dearman, aged 56. 14th inst., at Cl o ugha Cottage, Quern ;n—earuthe Lancaster, John Simpson, Esq., of St. The yosroo N O tea s's-square, Hackney, one of ILM.'s Justices of the Peace fur Middlesex, a,ged 76. SMITH—At Newcastle-upon-Tyne, very suddenly,Williana Smith, Esq., of Clifton, near Ashburn., in the county o f Derby, of the firm of Smith, Cox, and Co., cheese- • factors, Derby, aged 57. SPROULE —On the 13th inst., at North House, Tewker bury, Anthony Sproule, Esq„ aged 54. LONDON : Printed and Prtilliahei hq*MilltDO YOUN'6O of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Tice LS,zia Office, Sr • 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the 'Savoy ,in We county • of Middlesex, Friday, July 16, 1858. CHRIST) —TIIREI TAINSIENT.—I Circus —Italian C commencing at 2 Back, Is. The Patrons oi company start t NOTICE. APTERN the CHRTSTY'S in NO WAY 12 , POlygraphic Hal and Saturday A A DELAI until further n ot by Mons. Lan Leader, Charles .IP ATER PIIYSIC Portant subject market), at Fou TM. ICAIIIVS MARRIAGE, g receipt of twelv( A "AM (The 15( Wii.GLETT'S nary and Bidllia and Gymn^stii General Gavelo P erformances e Evening at 8 o' Private Bose PA, la. ; No fees for book Underl the Original GE Palace, on MO] BAN The Warrant the 30th instan proximo, and p 22d June, 18; Prosy CF. • Bond-1 novereigns and imPreasion whi retired, or is at is entirely unto tirement and se B ond-street, bu been, in any wi C ONTR IC r rHE Cc Lord 11 and Ireland, the 12th Ant r e ady to treat for supplyin^ at Deptford, tt and Necessarl CLOTHS, Description c &c. Scarlet cloth (s „ cloth Ited cloth White cloth (s /I cloth, ,N PI 81. kerse Y ue cloth (su No. I(am N 0.2 Crxronl nalattui fine mixtur 11 1 :eic kersey Itattinette Shalloon Cotton, No. 1 Xe:t erge, White Black linen Brown hollan Padding clot' C 1 wass N raddia. !ga. Alpaca - Great co;t el CARNITIJRI beSeriptioi Embroidered artllle Embroidered major Do. No. brumniers; 1)0. Entbroldere( sergeant bo. 2, st b 3. 3, inf Do. 4, art I lnibroblere E mbroiderer; Gold cord Gold lace Worst e d tor , Bilk, scarlet black gold et Braid, blacL Buttons, la sergeants' Do., sma ll; Do., iron. j 1) 0, white Back hooks Books and Books, sins Looping lac Back fring Muttons, to DA; f 3 Thread, rec bl Lace, whit Lace, Bead try, ban( Law, yen() ta str ee t , il b lz Gold cord toaster s Xrnbrolder rank an( be. No. 6 Twist, act. red bla wl] 8.2 19 tape One-hal Three ertle' wlthln thi enduing Sample o'clock. Tender shove qa Their I ders are 4 thereof c not eontr No tei day of tr vide," for the said It is~ behalf, s of the of and to b The ci Lion is c Evers a►nd bea roust al Wh►te VOlllll Sleet path Ilea( Sick Asti effec ?we att mt eft Re