The Sun. — London, England, 1860-07-20 00:00:00

MNIPPw'T dried; moo, sni 1 tra Lrd t cer t rts) 4 Won mirth. adicap I ; the Pay 10 vey) 1 Iler) 2 ent) 3 Gril. 0 ., 5 to Ist any second, winner Her) 1 ker) 2 rah 30 I. One arcs) 1 low) 5 ctra) Lard) 5 (ear mar) 4 ed, for ylor) dlar) 'age) 4 , 'ens) advice v. ll° •omised several uccess. Liver- Plate. up and , or 3d, placed .otting- th inst., Wylelf Prins© gs , a nd , it, vie., to Am' ice vr 2 l 0 Royal back? .ning to I of the iinster• ;h. le loaf 10 yard° -uilders, boato 1 1 ° u. me, to vr a ' ° nia minter . asend. MONEY MARKET AND CITY NEWS. CITY, Two o'CLocx. There has been rather less activity in the Foreign and Colonial Produce Markets during the last few days. Tea has been exceedingly quiet, the dealers 5 deferring their operations until after the arrival of 13.1 i i adviees by th e Overland Mail, For sugar there stj has been a steady enquiry, chiefly for home con 2 . - sumption, and prices have been fairly maintained. stoc Coffee at public sale went at slightly reduced rates, ig but the enquiries for the better descriptions were ~ .),( 9 ) to an average extent. Rice continued dull and the 2 - r dealings in saltpetre were only to a limited extent, 1' at about former quotations. At the public sales of 1 5 : indigo prices have shown little variation, an d tallow has been in steady request at a slight ad- r-toocell vance in values, stocl The third series of C o lonial woo l sa l es corn- 5t02,1 menced yesterday evening, the attendance of both r o home and foreign buyers was good, and prices st"' stoci averaged about the same as at the close of the is auctions in M steel ay. The quantity to be offered is stop 10 about 89,788 bales. steel Rather less activity was exhibited in the cotton stop , market at Liverpool yesterday, and prices remained :r o c ei unchanged. The sales were estimated at 8,000 stoe; stoel bales. An active demand for money is still reported, :t t o o e, and the rates of discount consequently continue steel 2s firm. The payment of railway calls and sub s c ri p - steel tions for shares in new companies still augment the general inquiry, and the expectation of a loan for 25 the fortifications has added to the reserve shown st 2 o ; by the capitalists, who are no doubt to some extent holding themselves prepared for any operation the lc stoe) Government may have to negotiate. stoei At the forthcoming meeting of the Scottish sr , Australian Investment Company a dividend will 2' be proposed at the rate of 10 per cent. per annum. 1 1 0 ' 0 The Ripon has arrived from Alexandria with V £l,lBO in specie. stet A meeting has just been held of the English, st g t o Scottish, and Australian Chartered Bank, when a stool dividend at the rate of 5 per cent. per annum, as stool also the report, was warmly adopted. stet ,tne Very little alteration has taken place to-day in 25 the market for Public Securities , but the trans- spttnocel actions having been limited prices have not been i o f affected to any material extent. Consols are 931 tr for money, and 931 for account, being the same 1: as they closed yesterday afternoon. The New 3 per Cents. and the Reduced are heavy, at 931 -1; stool the New 21 per Cents., at 761 ; India Stock is 8,1°,`, firmer, at 218 and 220 ; ditto New Loan is steady, stoc at 1041 ; ditto 5 per Cent. Enfaced Paper is at stool 97 1 ; and Exchequer Bills are ls. to 4 s. prem. s s l t ° „ c e l Bank Stock is flat, at 2281 to 230 . stocl 20 Continued quietude has prevailed in the Foreign 25 Stock Market, and prices , in some instances, are 22 rather heavy. Turkish 6 per Cents. are 77 to 771 ; i s sto c ' e e ditto New, 601 61; Russian 41 per Cents. have re- 2r ceded to 93 7 1 ; ditto 3 per Cents. to 64; Dutch 21 per 25 Cents. are firmer at 651; ditto 4 per Cents, at 12 stoci 10ii ; and Brazilian 5 per Cents. at 1001. 13 The Ocean Marine Insurance Sha r e s a re 21 1 stsTi prem. ; the Thames and Mersey, -7 ; 1 prem. ; and the 21 Universal, _a_ prem. 11 The, Mercantile Bank of St. Petersburg has de- st 2 o l , dined to 1 1 prem. The dealings in the Railway Share Market were stoe on a very limited scale, and the variations in prices - have been unimportant. North Western have de clined 55.; South Western, 10s. ; and South Wales £l. Lancashire and Yorkshire, and West Mid- land have improved 55., and South Devon, 10s. For the Foreign and Colonial undertakings there RI , was scarcely any enquiry. Bahia and San Fran- fit ' cisco brought 71 1. East Indian declined to 9W-, 991, and Great Indian Peninsula improved to 971. fi Joint-Stock Bank and Miscellaneous Shares st; have remained at about previous values. Bank of at' Egypt have advanced 10s. Electric Telegraph sr declined ss. and Peel River Land improved £l. st "BRITISH FUNDS—CLOSING PRICES. Bank Stock .. 3 per Cent. Reduced Annuities 9 3s 1 1 - 3 per Cent. Consols Annuities New 3 per Cent. Annuities New 23 per Cent. Annuities India Stock Ditto 5 per Cent. Ditto Enlaced Paper, 4 per Cent. — Ditto 6 per Cent Ditto 5% per Cent. Ditto Debentures, 1858 961 7 Ditto, 1859 Ditto Bonds £LOOO 6 d Consols for Account, 9th Aug. 9 31 i i Exchequer Bills, £l,OOO, lid D , tre £5OO 4 1 pm Ditto Small FOREIGN FUNDS—CLOSING PRICES. Brasilian 5 per Cent Dltto 41 per Cent. 1852 .. 881 Ditto 4f per Cent. 1858 BB 71 8t Ditto 1860 BB Peruvian 4i per Cent Ditto Account Ditto (Uribarren), 41 per Cent. 95 Ditto Account 731 Portuguese 3 per Cent., 1853. Russian 5 per Cent. 1822, £ St .. Ditto 4/ per Cent 931 Ditto 3 per Cent., 1859 Spanish 3 per Cent. . Ditto New Deferred 4O/ Ditto Account Spanish Com. Cert. of Coup. not funded 5 Turkish 6 per Cent .. Ditto Account Ditto New Loan Ditto Guaranteed, 4 per Cent. Venezuelan 3 per Cent D it to Account .. Dividends on the above payable in London. Belgian, 41 per Cent., Ex. 25f Dutch Exchange, 12 Guil. 2 per Cent 65 / Ditto Certificates, 4 per Cent. THREE O'CLOCK Consols, Money Ditto Account, August 93/ 1 CONCERT TO-NIG_HT AT ST. JAMES'S HALL.\:I s• The programme which has been arranged for the con cert to be given to-night in aid of the Brough memorial s fund is one of the fullest and most interesting of the sea son. Such an array of solo instrumentalists is rarely to 1 ; be met with in any one evening as Messrs. Sainton, Pratten, Lazarus, Harper, Hughes, and G. Collins, while the morceaux selected for execution are of the most at tractive class. A full band, under the direction of Mr. Alfred Mellon, will perform the overtures to " Leonora," " William Tell," and " Marc , uerite," with the " Slow Movement" from Spohr's "'Power of Sound," and the si " Coronation March" from the " Prophete." The vocal features of the concert are so numerous and striking s that it may seem invidious to select any for special s notice ; nevertheless we may mention that Madame Sain ton will sing " Over the Sea" and " The green trees I whispered;" Mr. W. Harrison, the " Muleteer's Song," from the " Rose of Castile" ; Miss Parepa, " Batti, batti ;" etc Madame Vinning, " Tace la notte ;" Madame Catherine etc Hayes, " 0 Luce di quest' anima; Mr. and Madame Weiss, etc " Crudel pereke ;" Mr. Wilbye Cooper, Hullah's song, s of "; " A doubting heart ;" Miss Palmer, the " Sailor's wife ;" Madame Enderssohn, Had yn' s lovely canzonet, " She never told her love ;" Mr. Santley, with Miss Parepa, " Dunque io son ;" and Miss Poole, Mr. Brough's last song ' "Has st a nybody here seen Hugo ?" We have mentioned only a st portion of the pieces allotted to the above artists, in con junction with whom Madame Laura Baxter, Mrs. Robert Paget, Miss Banks, and Miss Theresa Jeffreys will give their valuable assistance. T.HIS DAY'S SHIPPING. LONDON, July 20.—Wind this day at noon—South , Westerly ; moderate breeze, and fine weather. PORTSMOUTH, July 19.—Wind W.S.W.—Arrived— Her Majesty's ship Industry, from Rio Janeiro and As cension. SOUTHAMPTON, July 19 —Wind S . W.—Arrived Ripon, steamer, from Alexandria. BRISTOL, July 19.—Wind merce, from Quebec. PILL, July 18.--Wind W.N.W., strong—Arrived Equity, front Quebec. FALMOUTH, J u ly 19 Wi . n d N —krrivedGio vanna d'Arce, from Sulin—a. W,—Arrived —Coin (BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.) SOUTHAMPTON, Friday Morning. Wind N.W. Arrived, July 19 —Courier, and South-Western, steamerst from Jersey. Sailed, July 19—Di spatch, steamer, for Jersey. (BY SUBMARI NE AND BRITISH TELEGRAPH.) GRAVESEND, Friday Morning. Wind North-West ; tide, low water ; weather fine. Arrived, July 20—Ellen, from Guernsey. DEAL, Friday Morning. Wind W.N.W., moderate. Passed—Her Majesty's steamer Rhadamanthus, from the river for the westward. Passed, in tow—Caroline, from Manzanillo. for London. Anchored—Jane, from London for Buenos Ayres ; Maria, from Hamburg for Rio Grande. THE MYSTERIOUS MURDER NEAR FROME. The Sherborne Journal of yesterday says :—" There is nothing fresh relative to this horrible affair. The detective has entered upon his difficult—almost hopeless—task. The girl has returned to Mr. Kent's, having been persuaded to do so, we believe, by one of the Magistrates. She told them that the child being in her charge when it was mur dered, she considered herself in some measure responsible for it, and was anxious to do her part, to detect the mur derer. She was also afraid if she went home that her motives might be misconstrued. Up to the present hour this most revolting deed of darkness remains wrapped in elocurity." SHARE MARKET.-(THIS DAY.) ORDINARY SHARES AND STOCKS. .;Inroi lt,ilways. I, , Closing , Business I' e ''''l Prio4,:. Done. 50 Belfast and Ballymena all I 13.14 Bir., Wol , and Str. Val. all 8 81 stock Pirk., La., and Ch June lOO 78 " 25 Blackburn 25 Blyth and Tyne all 10 Bost. Sleaf. and Mid.Co all 64 74 105 stock Bristol and Exeter ... 100 105 107 stock Caledonian • 100 4 91/ 941 I 1 10 Carmarthen & Cardigan all 50 Cork and Bandon all 20 Fork, I slrock., Passage all a ll 6/ 7 20 Cornwall 10 Do A a '- f A nets no div. i all 10 Do B , until 6pc perm. all r hasbeen pd. toll - 50 Dublin & Belfast June. 11 all 8 9 25 Dun., Perth, t Ab. June. 100 16 stock East Anglian stock Eastern Counties stock Eastern Union, A stock 100 36 38 stock Do do Bdo 100 25 27 25 Do Nw A. late EU3ds all 20 East Suffolk 10 Po . . stock Edinburgh & Glase•ow 100 77 78 stock Edin. Perth, & Dundee l' 0 30 31 10 Forth & Clyde Junction all s t oc k Furness s t oc k GLIM and S. Western 10 0 101 106 10 Great Ntlin. of Scotland all stock Great Northern lOO 1151 1181 stock Do do A stock stock Do do B 410 stock Gt. S. &W. of Ireland 100 113 114 stock Great Western stock Do Str Val gm. stock 100 60 65 12 irish South-eastern stock Lancashire & Yorkshir 100 1071 1071 1 . , 3 I 3 stock London and Blackwall 100 69 71 704 stock Lon., Bright.. & s Coast 100 1141 1151 25 Lond., Chat., and Dover all 111 194 stock Lond. &Nth. Western , 100 1024 01 1031 21 12 ,1 Do eighths ' 10 12: 1 stock Lond. & -th. Western lOO 95/ 961 96 4 5 4 25 L'derry & Coleraine 25 L'oerry & Ennisiollen all 10 11 stock Han. Slief. & Lin oln 50 Waryport and Carlisle all 121 Do do 4 shares— all 10 Hetropolitan 4 3 2 d stock Hirlland stock Do *Armin.% & Derby 100 06 98 50 Hid. G. W. of Ireland all 25 Do A shares all 5 Hid Kent. ... 10 Do, Cray Line . . 100 Newcastle and Carlisle all 10 Newry k Armagh, def.. 9 7 6 d 20 Newry, Warnpt. & Ros. all stock Norfolk lOO 55 57 50 N hn. Counties Union.. 31 31 3 d stock North British.. stock ,or.Dev.ltail&lDk.stoz 100 stock D A stk ; A recs no d. until Rpchas beenpd.B 100 stock Do B stock ._....... 100 Rtocl: Nth. Eastern—Berwick 100 984 ogi 99 84 25 Do do . G.N.E. purchase 1603 414 4 d d stock ' -, 0 Leeds • 10 53 531 53 100 831 84 831 stock Do York ........ ..... .toe North London . 100 104 106 19.16.4 North Staffordshire.... 171 At 1-3- d 13: 14 10 N. and S. W. Junction .. , all 9 10 12 Not. &Grantham Rail.. 10 6: 6: 10 Peebles Portsmouth VI Rhymney ..... stock Scottish Central stock scot. N. E., Aber. stock 100 31 32 311 stock Do Scot. Mid. stock lOO 8 88 stock Shropshire Union 10 Sittin . - bourne & Sheer all 4 3 d stock South Devon . ..... 100 44 46 451 6 stock South Eastern ........ 100 844 (54 86 100 67 69 681 7 1 stock South Wales ..... .... stock S. York. and River bun 100 79 62 20 Staines, Wok, and Wok all 6 8 25 Stockton & Darlington all 40 41 25 Do do Stockton & Hartlepool 16: stock Taff Vale ..„ lOO stock Do Pref. No 1 101) 25 ThamesHavenl k&ltail 22 1 - 50 Ulster . all 1 55} 561 25 Do 20 21 31p 12 10 Do .... : .... •• • • 1: , .I.p stock Vale of Neath 13 Victoria Sta. and Pim all 114 111 stock Waterford & Kilkenny 100 50 Waterford & Limerick all 20 West C.rnwall 20 West London all i 10 Do let class 20 Do 2nd class stock West Midland—Oxford 100 45 47 46 1 25 Do. Newport all 10 11 stock Do. Hereford 100 . — PREFERENCE SHARES. t I Closing Business Share Railways. (Paid. price. Done. 25 Mythe and Tyne 10 per c. pref. (issued at £5 O ctk i (iris. & Exet.4 p.ct.stock 20 IDo. do. do. Shares ..... ock Caledon £10,41 per cent ock Do. Quar. Shares, No. 2. ei Cork & Bandon, 54 p. c. 20 Cornwall, 5 per cent... 01 Dun.Perth&Aber Tun. . ock E.AngmClass A 7 &sp.c. ock Do. do. Class B a p.c.... oek Do. do. (lass C 7 p.c.... ock E. Coon. Ex. sp.c. N 0.1 ock Do. do. No. 2 ysk Do. New 6 pet ct. stock. ock Eastern Vnion, 4 per ct. 3ck Do. 5 per cont. Guar... )ck Edin.&Glas. sp.c. shares Ick Do. 4p. c. qua, S. &D. wk Vdin. Perth& Dun. 4 p.c. 3ck Furness, 5 per cent .... wk Glas.& S. West.g.a. 5 p.c. )ck Gt., 41 - , Northern, 5 p. ct. 3ck Do.sp.c.Redm., 10 p.c.pm wk Do. 44- p. c. do. do. 10 IDo. p.c. Redm. 5 p.c. pm [0 Gt. NFL of Scotld. Ist pf. )ek Gt ' Sri ' & W (Ireland) 4 p. ct. pref. stock 50 Great West. (Berks and Hants) Ext. 5 p. ct ock Co. Redeemable,44p.et. Ick Do. Redeemable, 4p. ct. ock Do. Trredeemsble, do ock Do. 5 p.ct. Redeem. Pref. 8 Do. Birm. Pref. Shares. 10 f-It. W. Ches. 8 p.c. pf.sh. 10 Do dcs p. et. pref .. ock Do Tiirmg.g,uar. stock.. 20T Do. Chester gua. shares 1:34 Do. do. do. 20 Do. do. do. (AK Lan.&York 6p. c. stock 'ock Do.Barnsl.stts :Is lOd pc took Do. 6 per c. (E. Lan.) Cock Lon.& Tirig.s pc.gu. No.l tock IDo. 5 p. c No. 2 took Do. pita. 6p. c. Lock Do. do. 5 p.c No. 4 Cock Do. do. 4} per cent'. .... 6D°. do. 44 p. c. shares.. I Mock Do. 7 p. ct. Pref. stock. [Cock Do. Op.c. do. (W.E.&C.P.) 'took Do.4p.c.S.(div.dettil '651 25 Lon. Chat. and Dover.. ;took Lon. and N.W. Coy. and Nuneaton, 5 p. ct..... stock Lon. & S.W, 7n. ct. stock stock Do. 45 per cent N. ad. Do. (Prtsm. perpl anus of 2s. ad ... .... . • • • • • • 1215 Londondy. & Cole. 4 sh. 124 London y. & Ennis. 4 sh.l stock Man. Sh. &Lin. 6 per ct. 6 Do. £6 stoc' Do n[4 --- -- ' 94 96 100 all all all all 1103 105 51 61 101 103 114 116 105 110 111 113 110 112 126 128 79 81 11 113 90 92 76i 71 118 120 rlO7 119 112 lit 5 107 86 88 98 100 [OO 102 S 9 91 91 93 102 104 91 10i 17 18 104 11 75 77 24 201 101 101 & Do. 3,1 per cent 0 Do. redeem. 6 per cent ,2/ Mary ort & Car., 4p. c. ,24 Do. 41 per cent. )ck Mid. Con. 6p. c. stock , )ck Do.Con.Bris. & Bir. 6 p.c., )ck Do. 4/ p. c. pref. stock 6 Do. with option till 1860 )ek Do. Leis. & Hit. pref. et. )ck Norflk sp. c. Ex. et. 1846 ,ck Do. 5. p. c. Pref. do. 1847, )ck Do.s'W'ay.Val.Ex.st.lB47 ,ck North British, 5 5 p.c.... c. .. Del; Do. New, p. - us. p. 10 1 Do. Bor. Un. g. pf. shs 10 Do. do. do. :,cl.: Nth.Dev.R ail. & Dck.Co. ock N-Ea st.Cons.Pret. 4p. c. ock Do. Berwick, 4 p.c. Pref. 17 Do. do. do 20 Do. Leeds, 6p. e. No. 1 121 Do. do. Quarters, 1848 25 Do. York, H. &S. Parch. 20 North Staffordshire 10 Rhymney Guaranteed. 81 Scottish Central, new pc ock Scottish North-Eastern 51 p. e. pref. stock.... ock Do.Aberdeen,gua. 6 p.c. ock Do. 7p. c. pref. stock 10s. South Devon, Ann. 10s. 10 Do. Fixed 41 per cent. .0.6 South Eastern (Reading Ann., 1.0.6) ock Do. 4} per cent ock Do. Fixed 1 p.c. Ist is )ck - outh Wales, gua. 4 p.c )ck Do. 11 per cent. ck S.-Yorkshire, 4 p.c. gua. 25 Stock. & Dar. Asp. c ?,5 Do. B 6 per cent t 5 Do. C 6 per cent ek Watrfd & iiilkny, 6p. e. :ek W.Mid -Oxf Ist Gua stk Do. 2d do Do Newport 5 p.c.pf.red. , Do.Perpet. 6 p. c. pl 1m66 Do. till 1869, let is. Do. do. 2d i. Do. Hereford IA p.c. pf. 100 100 100 100 100 100 VI Mt 39 141 117 117 140 117 104 119 119 145 119 106 55 158 [32 130 (18 70 20i 21 116 118 L 521 157 i 1001 21 1 201 121 121 [26 128 69 71 in 101 i 100 100 100 140 142 101 105 94 96 [ll 113 [OB 110 I 1 P 92 94 08 99 1 d d i * p 21 231 73 75 122 124 130 135 10 3 / 4 11 23 24 103 105 103 105 1041 86 88 28 29 3:11 34i 33 34 45 50 127 129 122 124 ilO 101 , 111 15i I 1 i 1p LINES LEASED AT FIXED RENTALS. Railways. Lo & N.IV • • • • Ln & NAV 97 98 I o. . Do. ll3 115 Caledonia 104 106 E.U.&E C, 16 17 Gt.. North. 138 140 E.Counts.l 41 all 100 100 100 100 100 all 100 all 100 , 100 ICaledonin 100 ,Do. .. . . all all Yk.N.&Br all Yk.N. Md. all ,Do. all IDo. 100 ,Ln.B; 100 ,S. Last 100 'Do. 100 Peto & Co. 100 N Arfolk 100 Do. ,I all ENW &11 100 Midland 6,5; 6 E.Counts all Do. aP ail Do. . .... a ll Midland I. :N) all & 5 100 (3 t.N . .ort (h. 100 T.Brassey 1 i a 1 ? 1 1. 1 1 T10 3 c ;1 4 c . ;.45 K . raid. Paid. Leasing .Closing Business • Co.'s. Price. Done. 21 3} ' 96 98 it i P I , 56 58 Bedford and Bletchleyi Buckinghtmshire Chester & Holyhead.. Do. do. 5/ per cent.) Do. do. 5 per cent. Clydesdale Junction.. Colchester, Stour Val. E.Union,Harwicl► Shs, Do. Woodbridge Do. New .. . , • , Gloster& Dean Forest H ar tlpool.Dek.& Rail.i Hull and Selby Do. Shares Do. Shares ....... Lanc.& Carl. a,5 p.c. Lon don & Greenwich Do. Preference .• • • • • Lon. ,Tilby.& Soutend. Low estoft, P.:lla. 4 P•et. no. 6 per Matk. cent.. • • • • • • Manc.,Buxtn. k did. Bradford Prefer ence Stock ... • . ....) N wmarkt.,lluryEx 1 ogiritailrinteEeadstni:) ~•, Do. do. 6 per cent •• D o . Fixed 5 per cent., North Western ...... 1 Preston and Wyre. Do. Stares . ...... Roystn.nitch,, Shep; Shrewsbry&llet ,tford i Do. Do. South Staffordshire . • Wilts and Somerset.. Wimbledon & Croydn. Share) Docks. stook Commercial lOO stock Do. 4 per Cent.Prefilin 100 stock East and West Indies .• 1 ' 32 stock London lOO stock St. Katharine lOO stock 'outh amp t on " stock Victoria 20 Do New . a ;112 114 '209 212 62 64 115 120 91 93 141 15 1:313 139 104 106 101 11 91 931 7}_ gi Closing \ Businasa Price. Done. 87 99 tici P E SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EY_BNINC4, ilia 20, !Sf IMPERIAL PAR LI ANTE NT. HOUSE OF LORDS--(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his scat on the woolsack at five o'clock. _ PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Macclesfield Gas and the Horsham and Guildford Direct Railway Bills were read a third time and passed. LABOURERS' COTTAGES (SCOTLAND) BILL. On the motion that the house go into committee on this bill, The Earl of AIRLIE took the opportunity of explaining certain misunderstandings, and directed the attention of their lordships to the state of agricultural labour in Scot land, and said when the bill was in committee he should move an amendment to the effect that the cost of improve ments for cottages should not be made a permanent charge on the estate. After a short discussion in which the Marquis of Bath, Lord Redesdale, and the Earl of Galloway took part, The house went into committee, and the amendment alluded to having been made, the bill was reported. CRIMINAL LUNATICS ASYLUM BILL (AMENDMENT). This bill was read a third time and passed. LANDS CLAUSES CONSOLIDATION ACT (AMENDMENT) BILL. Earl DE GREY moved the second reading of this bill, and said one of the clauses en.powered the Secretary at War to take land for the defence of the realm. The bill did not increase the power•given to the Secretary at War under the Defence Act, but it enabled him to avail himself of the machinery of the present measure. The Duke of SOMERSET said the bill did not give any new power to the War department ; it only gave improved machinery. With respect to the Admiralty the alterations he wished could be better discussed in committee. Lord CHELMSFORD thought the bill conferred some new powers on the Lords of Admiralty, and therefore it ought to be most carefully considered After a few words from Earl DE GREY, the bill was read a second time. COLEWORT BARRACKS (PORTSMOUTH) BILL. This bill passed through committee. ANNUITY TAX ABOLITION BILL. The house went int* committee on this bill, which was reported without amendment. LEITH HARBOUR BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS (SCOTLAND) BILL. This bill was read a second time. COURT OF QUEEN'S BENCH ACT (AMEND MENT) BILL. This bill was also read a second time. CENSUS (ENGLAND) BILL. Earl GRANVIL LE said, in moving the second reading of this bill, he need not make any observations, as its ob jects were so well known. The bill was read a second time. CENSUS (IRELAND) BILL. This bill was also read a third time. THE BUSINESS OF PARLIAMENT. The Earl of DERBY rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of the house to the mode of conducting the busi ness of the house. He said,—We have now arrived at the third week of July, a period when it is generally hoped that the session is drawing to a close. On former occasions the review of the session has often been made the subject of an exciting political controversy, and I am far from saying that the present session is so far an exception to the general rule as not to afford ample material for debate, (Hear, hear.) But on the present occasion it is my desire not to seek, but sedulously to avoid, such a discussion. I wish solely to draw your lordships' attention to a state of things which necessarily leads to dry detail, but which is yet a matter of great importance not only to the country, as affecting the character of the legislation of both houses, but also to the interests of any and every Government which happens to be charged with the responsibility of office. I trust, therefore, we may approach the considera tion of the question without the slightest reference to party feeling, and merely as a subject in which we all have a great and common interest. We have now been sitting for the space of 26 weeks, and at the expiration of that time I find that 34 Acts of Parliament have received the Royal assent, and tiat there are 13 other bills which, as they have passed both houses, and only await the Royal assent, may be supposed to be already added to the legislation of the session. On examination, however, the great proportion of these bills prove to be measures of the most absolute and complete routine. There is hardly a single measure among them that can claim the dignity of being of seconds rat* importance. This is not a circumstance which is new or peculiar to the present session, for I find that during this session nearly as many bills will have been passed up to the expiration of July as in any of the last ten or twelve years. The number is somewhat smaller, but the difference is not material. • 'What I wish to bring before your lordships is that almost by the necessity of the case the same thing must be found in nearly every session of Parliament. I wish to direct your attention to the man ner in which parliamentary business is conducted in the two houses, for the purpose of ascertaining whether the mode of proceeding may not be altered so as to avoid thedifficulty I have pointed out. I begin by acknowledging that the great proportion of bills, 9 out of 10, or even 19 out of every 20, require to be originated in the other House of Parlia ment. This does not arise merely because there are a null - ber of bills which, owing to the privileges of the House of Commons, we are precluded from originating in this house. I will frankly confess that, as a general rule, the House of Commons is better adapted for originating and discussing measures in the first instance, and that your lordships are better employed in revising and correcting the rough work, if I may say so, of the other House of Parliament. I do net mean to cast any discredit on your lordships' house when I say that the proceedings here do not bear any com parison with those of the other house in regard to the minute examination of measures, especially if they are of any length. There is, comparatively speaking, so small a number of your lordships who are disposed very carefully to consider the pro visions of measures which may be introduced, or who are in terested in calling attention to matters in detail, and there is so great a readiness to allow measures to be sent from this for consideration by the other house, that I suspect, unless a bill happens to excite general attention, there is a risk of its being sent down without receiving that attention and consideration which would probably have been bestowed on it had it been sent up to your lordships to be passed into a law. But assuming that in the great proportion of cases bills should be introduced first in the other House of Parliament, we are led to consider what is the course of proceeding which is taken in regard to bills in that house, and what is the prospect that those which originate there will come before your lordships in a reasonable time in order to give you the opportunity of deliberately con sidering them. There is one point of difference between the proceedings of the House of Commons and those of your lordships' house. I need not say that by the courtesy of this house any noble lord has the.privilege of placing a bill on the table and obtaining for it a first reading, without the necessity of raising any lengthy discussion. In the House of Commons members have no such power. It is necessary for them first to give notice on the preceding day that leave will be asked to introduce a bill, and upon that leave being asked considerable discussion may arise. Bills have there fore one more stage to go through in the House of Com mons than in your lordships' house, and in cases where it is necessary to originate the bill by the re solution of a committee of the whole house there is added another stage, making two more stages upon the introduc tion of certain measures than are necessary in your lord ships' house. But, then, what are the facilities which the House of Commons affords, especially to the Government, for the introduction of bills and the progress of public busi ness ? By the rules of the House of Commons two days are set apart for motions by individual members, and a third day, 'Wednesday, is set aside for bills without any prefer ence in favour of Government measures over those of pri vate members, the bills being taken in the order in which they stand on the notice paper. At the commencement of the session the Government, by giving notice of all the measures they have prepared, and sometimes also, I fear, of measures that they have not prepared, occupy the ground, and have an opportunity of introducing some bills. But, except for the first week of the session, the Government have no precedence over pri vate members, and they aro often placed in circum stances of great difficulty with regard even to the introduc = Lion of their measures. When bills are introduced the Go vernment have nominally two days in the week for their consideration. We should, however, recollect the position in which the Government stand at the beginning of each session with regard to the two days in tie week allotted to them. It is necessary, in consequence of the expiration of the Mutiny Act, that a very early opportunity should be taken of laying before Parliament the number of men and the amount proposed to be demanded for the military and naval service of the country. The first object, therefore, is to go into Committee of Supply. The Mutiny Act cannot be passed before the votes for men and money have been taken, and it is thereforenecesaary before Easter that these votes should be considered in supply. But, although the Government are in possession of two days out of five for the transaction of Government business in the House of Com mons, that statement, without further explanation, would lead to an erroneous idea in regard to the time actually at their disposal; because on every occasion of going into committee of supply it is open to any hon member to move any amendment, and a discussion may be taken upon any subject whatever, on the ground that the consideration of grievances ought to precede the granting of supply. It, therefore, often happens that a whole evening, and some times more than a whole evening, is occupied by discussing some question that has nothing to do with committee of supply. 'With regard to other bills a satisfactory rule has been made, that when the hou. e has onbe gone into com mittee on a bill, and has reported progress, it is not com petent for any hon. member, when the bill again comes be fore the house, to move an amendment to the motion that the Speaker leave the chair. But formerly that was not the case, and this was one of the modes adopted by the House of Commons for the purpose of curtailing the forms of the house and saving time. I believe that this alteration was made under the presidency of my noble friend (Viscount Evers • ley), whore I do not now see in his place, who presided with so much dignity and public utility over the deliberations of that house—(cheers)—and that was one of the many valu able improvements he introduced into the parliamentary practice of the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) It has noi eili I been found necessary of late years, indeed, to carry these restrictions to an extent that can hardly be justified. Your lordships all know that en the presentation of petitions in this house the whole subject of those petitions may be en tered upon and discussed ; but it has been found necessary to put so absolute a restriction upon this right in the House of Commons that members are not allowed t o statean y thing except the substance of the petition and the parties from whom it proceeds. With regard to Committee of Supply, it is not only nee. ssary that a motion should be made when ever the Speaker leaves the chair ; but upon ev er y occasion when the house goes into committee afterwards, although no vote may have been taken on the previous occasion, a new motion must be made and a new amendment may be moved. And that may take place on every occasion when the Government seek to go into Committee of Supply. During these two days in the week, when devoted to the business of supply, the Government may th us be indefi nitely embarrassed and the public business indefinitely postponed by amendment after amendment. But that is not all, for every 'Friday, which is one of the two days at the disposal of the Government, a motion was ma de " that this house at its rising adjourn to Monday." That motion affords weekly an opportunity not of mov in g a specific amendment, but of discussing every description of subject, introduced without order or regularity or without the possibility of any Minister speaking more than once in answer to numerous interpellations. Recently Thursday has been taken as a Government day instead of Friday, and the discussions upon the motion for adjourn ment on Friday are not now taken out of the time allotted to Government business. So far as the promotion of public business is concerned, that is a very considerable improve ment. But in the early part of the session the Government are limited to two days in the week, and for public business of the character of legislation there is little or no time be fore Easter, from the necessity of obtaining Supply, and the difficulty of entering upon the consideration of Supply. I hope it will not be supposed that in alluding to the practice of the House of Commons I conceive myself entitled, or that your lordships are entitled, to pass an opinion upon the mode in which the House of Commons transact their own business, or that suchen opinion would carry any weight with it. What I want to show is that this is a state of things which the House of Commons have made many attempts to amend. It is to be regarded not as an exceptional state of things, but as one that does and may affect every session of Parlia ment. Ido not mean to say that there may not have been some additional delay in the present session, owing to the introduction, at an unusually early period, of a budget of an ambitious and complicated character, simultaneously with the introduction of a commercial treaty, which led to much discussion and difference of opinion, and simultane ously also with the introduction of a Reform Bill, which occupied a great deal of the time of the house. The House of Commons, then, having one stage more for every bill than ) our lordships, and originating a great number of bills, the Government having only two days for the conduct of the Government business, those two days being greatly occupied by motions in supply, and those motions being liable to in terruption and great delay from the introductionof other sub jects, the time for legislation at their disposal may be re garded as almost nil, and the result is that the number of bills passed before the end of July is comparatively small. From 1848 to 1860, but not including this year, the average number of bills that received the Royal assent up to the end of July for each year was 61, while the average num ber that received the Royal assent from the end of July up to the end of August was 61. That is to say, the number of bills passed in a month when there is a very small number of either house in attendance is equal on an average of years to the number that received the Royal assent in all the five preceding months of the session. My lords, I have before me a precise state of the business of the house as it was this morning. Your lordships have gone through some mea sures this evening, and so far it will not be accurate; but this morning there were five bills standing for a third read ing, eight for committee, two of which are referred to a select committee, nine for a second reading, the day for which is fixed, and 16 waiting for a second reading, for which no day is fixed, including three bills which originated here, and ap pear likely also to terminate their existence in this house. The total number of bills now on the table of your lordships' house is 43; but even with regard to these 43 bills, 15 or 16 of which came up on Monday, and five or six to-day, there are comparatively few which are of great importance. Now, there is, as I said before, a large number of bills which your lordships have not the power of originating. Se far, however, as your power in that respect extends, you have not neglected the public business in the course of the present session, for I find that you have sent down to the House of Commons 22 or 23 bills, many of which are very important, including seven relating to the consolidation of the Criminal Law, which received your assent at an early period of the session, and to whose consideration much industry and knowledge was applied. In addition to these, you passed a bill for the regulation of the Divorce Court, the Indictable Offences Bill, a bill for the Union of Benefices, another on the subject of Church temporalities, and a great number of other important measures. It must, however, be admitted, when we come to take notice of the progress which these measures have made in the House of Commons, that the 1 position which they occupy on its votes is not such as to encourage us to originate bills in this house, for having examined the votes of the House of Commons, I find that not one of the bills which you have sent thither—the course of three of them, I may observe, I have been unable to trace—has yet passed through committee. (Hear.) Ten of them are awaiting that stage, having passed a second read ing, while there are nine which have not been successful in making so rapid a progress. I, under these circumstances, am very much afraid that the time which your lordships I have given to the considerationof these bills will havebeen, so far as the present session is concerned, absolutely thrown away. I now come to deal with the state of business gene rally as it stands inthe House of Commons, and that, I find, presents by no means a satisfactory aspect. There were in 1 that house this morning only three bills awaiting a third reading; eight awaited consideration, having been ; amended, while there were no less than 41 set down for committee, including 10 which were sent down from this house. Twenty-five, including nine others sent down by your lordships, stood for second reading, and, over and above this mass of business, there are, on the votes of the other house, no less than six notices of motion for leave to bring in bills—(a laugh)--which have yet to go through all their stages. Among these are the Militia Ballot Expenses Bill, the Medical Relief Bill, the 'Volunteers (Ireland) Bill, the East India Judicature Bill, some of which are Govern ment measures. But more than this there are financial pro posals, in which case it will be necessary that the House of Commons should go into committee, and pass resolutions to form the groundwork of bills, which bills will then have to pass through their several stages, and go through your lordships' house, before the Appropriation Bill can be introduced. (Hear, hear.) This, I think you will agree with me, is no small amount of work to have to accomplish, especially when I tell you that this morning that huge impediment, the Bankruptcy Bill, consisting of 500 and odd c l auses , stoo d at the hea d o f th e list—a bill which the Attorney-Gene ra l, lik e ano ther Sisyphus, is en deavouring to roll up the Parliamentary hill, but which no sooner reaches the top than it comes down again with far greater rapidity than it ascended. (Laughter.) I said this bill stood at the head of the list in the House of Commons this morning, b u t I b e li eve it does so no more, for if I am not misinformed, among the other painfU sacrifices which her Majesty's Ministers have been obliged to make is the abandonment of these 500 and odd clauses. (A laugh.) But there yet remain the Highways Bill, the Ecclesiastical Commission Bill, and the European Forces in India Bill — one of the most important and difficult measures with which the Government is called upon to deal, besides the Poor-Law Bcard Conti nuance Bill, the bills relat i ng to t h e tenure of land in Ireland, th e L on d on C or p ora ti on Bill— which, to my certain knowledge, has been for some years on the votes of the House of Commons—the Roman Catholic Charities Bill, making together with several other measures which I need not more particularly mention, but many of which are of considerable importance, 77 bills in the other House of Parliament, in various stages, from which if I de duct the 19 bills to which I have already alluded as having passed your lordships' house, there will be left 58, none of which, or very few of which, have yet—at the end of July —gone through committee. (Hear.) I hive, however, in the observations which I have made given your lordships but a very feeble picture of the embarrassment of the Go vernment in regard to the business of the country. I say this, because I have been informed by a right hon. gentle man who is likely to know that, according to the best cal culation that can be made, eight or nine nights more will be required to get through the votes in supply which still remain to be passed. (Hear.) Now, when you take into account the fact that the Government have only two, or at the utmost three nights in each week at their disposal, I ask you what prospect there is at this period of the session that the 58 bills which I have mentioned will receive that con sideration to which they are entitled, and without receiving which it would reflect no credit on Parliament that they should be allowed to pass into a law. (Hear, hear.) And what, let me ask, is likely to be the result of this state of things ? Why that, with perhaps a few insignificant excep tions, measures on the expediency of which the opinion of the country has been clearly pronounced, and the main prin ciples of which met with almost universal approval, will fall to the ground, a sacrifice to that general massacre which usually takes place about this time of the year, so that legis lation will have been absolutely brought to a standstill, and but little or nothing will have been accomplished in that direction during a session whi c h h as a l rea dy lasted six months, and which will not in all probability terminate for a month or six weeks to come. (Cheers.) Now, this, my lords, is a subject which, in my opinion, will press itself upon your attention more and more year after year, and if for the evils which it involves no remedy can be provided the result must be that Parliament will be placed in a position neither creditable to itself nor useful to the hear.) Surrou n di ng c i rcums t ances have n ation. (Hear) in the present session been favourable to legislation. The Thames this summer has been more inoffensive than has of late been its wont. (A. laugh.) The temperature has been such as to enable the members of the House of Com mons to go through their senatorial labours without the feeling of absolute exhaustion. (Laughter.) But, with all these incentives to work, it is t oo muc h t o su pp o se that a large number of the independent members of that house could go through six weeks of slavery, sitting from 10 to 14 hours a day. And, if men could be found to accomplish. so great a task, I feel certain that th e phy s ical prostrate& consequent on the exertion is not the means by which they would be best fitted to give due consideration to details of the measures brought under their notice, which, under these circumstances, there would be a tendency to slur over, so as to get rid of measures themselves, with the view of sending them up as speedily as possible to your lordships' house. (Hear, hear.) Sneh, my lords, being the evils with which we have to contend, where are we to find for them a palliation or a remedy ? Great bene fit, it must be admitted, has been conferred by the opera • lion of the resolution of my noble friend (Lord Redesdale), in accordance with which your lordships will not, after a certain day, undertake the responsibility of dealing with a measure which it is impossible for you—owing to the time at which it is laid before you—to consider satisfactorily. In former years, bills which were post poned until a late period of the session were frequently passed with extravagant haste. I find that in one year—Parliament having been prorogued on the sth of September-37 bills received the Royal assent in that month and 61 in the August immediately preceding, while only 27 received the Royal assent before the end of July of tho same year. I also find that in 1853 only 40 bills received the Royal assent before the end of July, while in the follow ing August 97 were added to the legislation of the country. It is impossible that these measures could have received the attention due to every bill which passes your lordships' house, and the consequence of such a system is that year after year we are called on to pass Acts for the purpose of amending mistakes, whether of this or of the other house, which have been committed from the great haste and necessary carelessness with which these bills are considered. Some 12 years ago I called your lordships' attention to this subject, and I at that time proposed a measure to which I had the satisfaction of obtaining your lordships' concur rence, for enabling the House of Lords, and vice versa, the House of Commons, to take up at the commencement of the next session the bills which should make their appear ance as remanets from the session before. I am per fectly satisfied that in one mode or other, if we desire to obviate the evils of the present system, we must come to some understanding by which the principle embodied in that bill shall be adopted. The measure received very general concurrence on the part of your lordships. I am afraid I must make one illustrious exception in the person of my noble friend the Chairman of Committees, who op posed alike its principle and details. The noble lord on the woolsack, I recollect, was favourable to the plan proposed in the bill, but objected to its being introduced into an Act of Parliament, and suggested that the same abject might be effected by resolutions of the two houses. Now, I am not about to make any distinct proposition to your lordships. I have desired to call your lord ships' attention to the state of public business at the present moment, and to the absolute necessity there will be of sacrificing a great portion of the bills now standing on the paper, and thereby rendering useless the labours of this and of the other House of Parliament. And snore especially I would say that it is a matter for the sincerest regret that those measures for the consolidation of the criminal law which were sent down from this house, as to which all parties were agreed, have been left, I know not why, except for the great press of other business, to so late a period of the session that there is little probability of their passing the House of Commons, notwithstanding that but slight or no opposition is made to them. (Hear.) But if an illustration be needed of the importance of our being able to carry on legislation from one session to another, I cannot have a better example than is afforded by the Bankruptcy Bill. That was a measure with regard to which probably a much larger number of members in proportion to those who attend in your lordships' house than in the House of Com mons were fully informed and competent to decide. The 550 clauses of that bill ought to have been elaborately dis cussed in both houses, but after two or three nights in cone • mittee, and before half its provisions have been gone through in the House of Commons, it is found absolutely necessary, I understand, to abandon the bill, and all the labour bestowed upon it has been consequently lost. But, supposing that bill had coma up to us in the month of August, what would have been the alternative placed before us ? We should have been oalled on to abandon and throw over altogether this very material alteration, and I hope very great amendment, in the commercial law and practice of this country; or else to pass on credit, and without due consideration, a bill of 500 clauses, on a subject as to which a very large number of those in your lordships' house are peculiarly qualified to judge and to give sound opinions. (Cheers.) I take that as an example of the position in which we should have been placed if this bill, which unfortunately has not received the sanction of the House of Commons, had been sent up to your lordships. I ask what can be a course more prudent than that a bill which has been passed by the Lower House, and the principle of which has re- j ceived the sanction of your lordships, should be left over for the consideration of its details to the commencement of the next session of Parliament, when we know that a general complaint is made at the commencement of every session that we have little or no business before us, and that in the interval bills which have passed the House of Commons will be submitted to examination and criticism by the pub lic generally, so that your lordships in approaching the consideration of these measures will have the opportunity of knowing, not only the opinions put forward by the other house, but the view taken by the public of their principles and details. (Hear, bear.) That appears to me the plain and obvious solution of the difficulty., Of course, such a plan could only be carried out with the sanction and concurrence of the House of Commons, in such cases as they were satisfied in the next session to ac cept the decision of the House of Lords as amendments to their bill, instead of beginning over again from the begin ning and carrying it through all the different stages, by which so much time was previously lost. An arrangement of this nature would afford the two houses the amplest means of deliberation, while the public would obtain the benefit of well considered instead of hasty and ill-consi dered legislation. (Hear, hear.) Of course it would be perfectly competent to the other or to either House of Par liament to decline taking those amendments into conside ration, and to drop the bill if they thought fit to do so, but I am quite sure the business of the house would be much facilitated and the interests of the country greatly advanced by any agreement come to between the two houses for the purpose of carrying into effect the principle, at all events, which I have stated to your lordships, and to which I endeavoured 12 years ago to obtain the sanction of Par liament. It is said the effect of this bill will be to encou rage attempts at legislation, that persons will bring for ward bills hoping, though they may not pass in one ses sion, that ultimately they may become law. For my part, I cannot help thinking that, although it might afford en couragement to the introduction of measures, it would at the same time afford the best means of giving to those mea sures, when they were introduced, the fullest and most im partial consideration. Moreover, there is at present great temptation in the House of Commons to the promoters of bills to hurry them forward in order that they may be brought under the consideration of this house within the time limited for your lordships' sitting. On the other hand, there is equal temptation to the opponents of bills, however valuable and important they may be, to interpose unnecessary obstructions by way of delay, and delay only, with the security that if they can only postpone the pass ing of the bill till after the period fixed by your lordships' resolutions it will bo altogether lost. Now, Ido not consi der in ordinary cases that such is a fair mode of opposition to measures in the other House of Parliament; and I am quite sure a great motive for that kind of resistance would be taken away if the persons resorting to it were aware that even if they succeeded in protracting the passing of a bill beyond a particular time it would not have the effect of de stroying it altogether and of rendering it necessary to begin next year all over again, but would only cause the post ponement of its consideration to another session, when the other house would be able to deal with it as it thought fit. I do not pretend to point out to your lordships the mode in which the object to which I have directed attention is to be attained, but I think you will be satisfied that the present state of legislation is not satisfactory to this house, to the other house, nor to the country—(hear)—that many and very valuable measures which well deserve to pass are lost, that much valuable time is sacrificed in either hot.se, and that with regard to the legislation which does take place, a great portion of it is of necessity so hasty and inconsiderate as to require very early and frequent amendment. My lords, all these things are of constant annual recurrence ; and ac cording to the mode in which business is conducted, I see no hope that they will not continue to be of annual recurrence. I know no possible mode of counteracting the evil effect of this waste of the greater part of the session, save by en abling measures to be postponed from July to February, as they may now be postponed from February to July, and as they are sometimes deferred by a prorogation or even by a dissolution of Parliament. I think I am not mistaken when I say that after the dissolution of 1859, this house, at all events, passed a resolution declaring that private bills which had reached a certain stage should be allowed, when Par liament met again, to be resumed at the point at which they had been left by the dissolution. I do not propose any rule of this kind with regard to a dissolution, because it must alter the constitution of the House of Com mons, which agreed to the bill, and consequently that house easy refuse to receive as mere amendments alterations to the measures passed by their predecessors. But with regard to the prorogation, I cannot see any rea • sonable ground why the same power should not exist of postponing a bill over a prorogation that may be applied indefinitely to the adjournment of Parliament, even al though it may be from February to July. There are vari • ous modes in which this object may be effected. The mode adopted in 1848, which received the general concurrence of your lordships, was the framing of an act enabling both houses to take the course which I have described. It was not thought expedient, however, in the House of Commons to press the consideration of that act, which accordingly fell to the ground, and the question has not since been re newed. Another mode was suggested by the noble lord on the woolsack —namely, that the two houses should simul taneously appoint committees which might be placed in communication with each other, and on their separate re ports, corresponding with each other, resolutions might be passed which would accomplish the desired object. I do not know whether any advantage would be derived in this case from a conference between the two houses ; the in stances, at all events, are very rare in which a question has been referred to a joint committee ; but in some one of these modes I do think it most important that the opinion of both houses should be taken, and that means should be dis- covered of remedying what everybody admits to he a! , grievance Ido not undertake to suggest to your lordships which of these modes would be the preferable course. On the contrary, I think it is a matter which had much better I be left to the Government; and an consultation with their colleagues in.th 3 other house, they will propose such a Dina • , sure as they on' their responsibility shall think fit. I do not t asrefore intend to trespass further on your lordzhips indulgence then to lay before you the statement which I have made as to the state of public business, and the nature of the only remedy which I believe can be successful. If it be convenient to the house, for the sake of regularity. I shall move that a committee be appointed to consider this question, of cours3 without the slightest intention of pressing that motion. I hope my noble friend the Presi dent of the Council, who I presume will follow me, will not satisfy himself with saying, in his usual courteous manner, that he is sure the house and the Government are much in debted to the noble earl opposite—(cheers and laughter)— for the pains which he has taken in making his remarks on this subject, and for the very clear exposition which he has given of the difficulties of the case ; and that he would assure the noble lord that he concurs with him in thinking the subject one of very deep importance, and that it shall receive the very best consideration of the Government. (Renewed laughter and cheers.) Of course, I don't expect any specific plan from my noble friend to-night, but I hope to obtain from him something more definite than the cour teous answer which I have heard from him on more than one occasion. I hope he will give us some intimation of the view which the Government take of this question, and that he will be able to say whether or not his colleagues are of opinion that any legislation or any resolution, or any other course by which an agreement might be come to by both houses, is likely to meet with success, or would in their opinion be a mode of diminishing, if not altogether doing away with the inconvenience which both houses, and your lordships' house in particular, must feel in being called on either to reject bills passed by the other house, and thus to render it necessary t , 3 begin again with them next session with probably as little chance of success, or else to pass them without giving them that consideration which it is due to your character and the interest of the country you should give before affixing your sanction to any legislative measure. (Hear.) The noble earl concluded by a formal motion for the appointment of a select committee. Earl GRANYlLLE—Notwithstanding the protest of the noble earl, I must say that I think both houses are indebted to him for having brought the subject under our notice, and further, that I think he has made a most clear statement of the evils which exist. (Hear, hear.) The house will agree with me, too, that the noble earl has amply redeemed the pledge which he gave the other night that he intended to treat the question entirely as one of public importance and divested of any party spirit. (Hear.) lam free to admit that there are circumstances this year, though as far as the Government is concerned a satisfactory explanation of them night be given, which a leader of Opposition might be tempted to make use of in a party spirit. There is no doubt as to the existence of the evil, though I think there is some- thing to be said on the other side. My noble friend said tha somewhere about 150 bills had been, or would be, brough under the consideration of Parliament this session. I am not altogether clear whether it is desirable that that number of bills should be passed every session ; but, on the other hand, there is no doubt that the present difficulties of legis lation do prevent useful measures being passed, for no other reason but the accumulation of business. This is not a new evil. The noble earl himself says he called attention to it 12 years ago ; and I remember hearing both Lord Aberdeen and Lord Lansdowne say that they had heard similar complaints fornearly 50 years past. At the same time it must be admitted that the evil is rather on the increase than the decrease, and this year it has been so great as to be hindrance to the pass ing of useful and necessary measures. (Hear.) The noble earl said that one remedy which we have attempted to apply was the resolution which we pass annually, fixing a certain day after which we will not read a bill a second time. I remark that that resolution has been pointed to elsewhere as a hindrance to legislation, and I have often thought that it was a resolution which might fairly be questioned. It was agreed to by your lordships, however, for your own de fence, and as far as I can form en opini n, if acted upon with a certain elasticity, it works usefully, and has net a disad vaxtageous effect on the legislation of the other house. (Hear.) With regard to the other remedy proposed by the noble earl—the suspending of bills at a certain stage, so as to make it possible to take them up in another session—it is a most important question, and one to which, so far as your lordships are concerned, you have given your assent by passing the bill of the noble earl same years ago. Con stitutional objections may be urged to it, I believe ; but, not having perhaps thoroughly considered the subject, I cannot see the force of them. With regard to private bills, where both houses act more as courts of justice than legislative bodies, it is an immense hardship on parties, when, for a public object, they have gone to a considerable expense in promoting a bill, that, having got to a certain stage, if they don't get a step further the whole of the money is sacrificed and they have to begin again. (Hear, hear.) A question was raised as to the principle here involved in the case of the impeachment of Warren Hastings. If I remember rightly the lawyers raised an objection that the impeachment abated in conse quence of a dissolution. I don't know that they were not right, but they were laughed out of it by Burke, who said that " though they might be competent to understand the gestation of a mouse they were not competent to under stand the gestation of an elephant." This shows, however, thatia:constitutional objection might be raised. At the same time, there is no doubt that any general change in the principle of our legislation is one which requires the greatest care. (Hem-, hear.) My noble friend said he hoped I would not give any vague answer. Well, I am ready to inform him that I have communicated with my colleagues in the other house several times on the sub ject, but in the present pressure of business the Go vernment have not found it possible to bestow that atten tion to the subject which it is necessary to give before com mitting themselves to any definite plan. During the recess the subject will receive full consideration, and if it appears likely that any satisfactory result would be obtained I think it would be most d esirable that some inquiry should take place in order to arrive unanimously, if possible, at some plan which would be of assistance to the progress of legislation. I believe there has not been a joint committee of both houses for 200 years, but it is quite competent to both houses to appoint a joint committee. I believe the objection which led to their ceasing came from your lordships. You objected that the House of Commons would not take off their hats, as at a conference—(a laugh)—and you also objected to their claim to have a double number of members. If a joint committee were not appoints d the other plan of the noble earl might be adopted—two separate committees to con sider the question, authorised to communicate with each other. These, however, are matters of detail, which may be considered during the recess. I don't propose to take any action this year. Among other reasons, be sides the lateness of the session, it is quite clear that it is not the best moment to choose to propose a joint action on any subject of this kind, when' questions have arisen between the two houses with regard to which a certain number of members feel a soreness at an unusual proceeding of your lordships. It is obvious that, whatever measure is adopted, it should be as nearly as possible unani mously adopted by both houses. (Hear, hear.) Lord BROUGHAM concurred with the Lord President in thanking Lord Derby for the clear, useful, and (to coin a word to describe a novelty) " unparty" statement which he had made on this subject. It was the duty of Parliament, without more delay than was absolutely necessary, to endea vour to apply a remedy to this evil, but circumstances had recently occurred which rendered it expedient that imme • diate action should not be taken. The course which he would recommend would be a joint committee, and in what ever way that committee was composed—whether or not the Commons had an equal number—he was sure that they would not be found to give their votes in two divisions, one of the Lords and the other of the Commons, so as to bring matters to a standstill, but that the important subject com mitted to them should be fairly and calmly discussed, with a view of arriving at some practical and useful result. Par liamentary Government was on its trial at present, and never till the present session, in the opinion of foreign countries, had it shown itself so incompetent for the discharge of its functions. People elsewhere thought that only one mode of free Government was tolerable, and it was one which we deemed intolerable—viz., universal suffrage. Universal suffrage meant government by the mob, armed and unarmed, and a dictator presiding over that multitude. That was the form which was supposed elsewhere to be the perfection of free government, and which was set up in contrast to parliamentary government. His belief was that our Parlia mentary Government, with all its faults, was infinitely pre ferable to anything of that description, as it was not free, but despotic, whereas ours was free and capable of improve ment. (Hear, hear.) He believed that either by standing orders of both houses, or by act of Parliament, or by some other measure resulting from the action of a joint committee, the greater part of the mischief could be greatly mitigated, if not wholly remedied. The motion on Fridays in the other house, that upon its rising it adjourn to Monday, gave rise to endless debates, to the exclusion of every other sub ject, and to the postponement and defeat of most important measures. It was a most mischievous practice, which had been introduced only in recent times, and could be remedied at once by a standing order. He would not enter further into the proceedings of the other house, for which he en tertained the greatest possible respect, and for that par ticular proceeding he entertained all the respect which was possible. (Laughter.) He believed that much might be done without any Act of Parliament, by orders and resolu tions of the two houses, backed by that without which all orders and resolutions would prove of no avail —viz., a firm determination on the part of the leaders in Parliament to carry the resolutions which had been formed into effect (Hear, hear.) Lord REDESDALE agreed with the noble earl the i he Pre - sidcnt of the Council that they should be very cautious n altering their proceedings , a s they had been found upon the whole to work well. The question could not be fairly judged by particular instances. Hi s noble friend had instanced the very strong case of the Bankruptcy Bill, which was of enormous length, but involved no party feeling. B u t l e t them take, on the other hand, the Reform Bill. It was necessary for the promoters of it to persevere to a certain degree, on account of its importance, although, not having with sufficient consideration, it did no t meet b een framed with approbation, but was withdrawn from the general con- viction that it could not get through both houses in the ses sion. But if the Government could have carried it through the House of Commons, and then passed it up to this house for discussion in the ensuing session, would not agreat deal more pressure have been put upon the Government not to drop it, and would that not have led to a greater consump tion of time than had already taken place ? (Hear.) And, ha would ask, could anything be more mischievous than to hang up a bill of that character during the recess? (Hear.) He was not one who thought that they legislated too little. Ile thought that upon the whole there was as much legis lation as was desirable for the country, and in some years a esreat deal too much. He thought it an advantage that this Bankruptcy Bill of 500 clauses should stand over for another year, and be considered in the interval in all its bearings. In some sessions a great deal of business was done because the measures had been previously considered. This was the case in 1845. Perhaps no public measure caused much greater excitement than the Maynooth Act. It was introduced early, and occupied a great deal of time, buethey passed the Companies Clauses Act, of 165 clauses, and a Scotch Act equally as long, the Lands Clauses Act, of 153 clauses, and a Scotch Act of about as many, and the Railway Clauses Act, of 165 clauses, before the middle of July. Nlost of these provisions were tee result of previous experience, but with that experience and the conviction that some general legislation was. desirable, they were passed, notwithstanding their minuteness of detail, theit extreme length, and the manner in which they affected the interests of private individuals. In the same session they passed the Poor Law Amendment (Scotland) Bill, with 92 clauses, a new system of Customs regulations, embodied in a bill of 163 clauses, a bill for the registration of British vessels,and other measures ; and in the same session the Enclosure Commission Bill was introduced, which contained 169 clauses. It showed there was great power of legislation in Parliament if there was a disposition to use it, and he be lieved the failure of bills was, in a great degree, owing to doubts arising as to their soundness, and to the unwilling ness, therefore, of Parliament to entertain them. But, sup. posing any remedy were desirable, this was not the house in which a resolution was necessary. With regard to any amount of businesswhich they were called upon to do, they were always ready to do it, and if the other house were to adopt a little snore the practice of this house in the manner of conducting its proceedings, he believed that the business would be carried on in a much more rapid manner. He did not say that because he wished the other house should in the present session enter upon a discussion of the subject, because it would onlyoccupy one of thosenights which were already too few for the measures which must pass. The re medy could be effected in the other house by an order. For example, supposing the Bankruptcy Bill had passed the Commons, they could, if theychose, send it up to this house next session, without commencing de novo. It was not for their lordships to inquire whether it had been read a first, second, or third time, or whether after a single debate it had been sent up in the same shape in which it passed those stages in the session preceding. Such a mode of treating measures was not necessary in their lordships' house, be cause they could find enough time to consider every mea sure, but if any s emedy in the other house were necessary, that course might be adopted, and perhaps limited to bills of great length and of a particular character. With regard to other bills, he was of opinion that there was often an ad vantage in a bill being lost, and that the proper control of Parliament would be r . eri lied if the Government had the power to suspend bills and take them up again in the next session. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that great reluctance' would be shewn to depart from that principle upon which the legislation of the country had been so long and satis factorily conducted by both houses of Parliament. The LORD. CHANCELLOR said that, althoughhe took great interest in this subject, and had devoted a consider able degree of attention to it, he would content himself with thanking the noble earl for the flattener in which he had brought it under the notice of their lordships. (Hear.) He did not agree with his noble friend who had just spoken in thinking that no improvement could be effected in the pre sent mode of transacting the business of Parliament. He believed that their mode of legislation was capable of amend ment ; but he refrained from going into any details at that moment. He would be happy to use his best exertions to bring forward a measure on the subject, with the assistance of his colleagues, and he hoped with the support of the noble earl, than whom no one was more capable of giving advice. (Hear, hear.) The Earl of DERBY then withdrew his motion. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER was in attendance at 12 o'clock, but the sufficient number of members not being present, no busi ness was transacted before half-past 12 o'olsak. PRIVATE BUSINES r I. The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con sidered and agreed to :—Bradford, Wakefield, and Leeds Railway; Great Northern and Metropolitan Junction Railway ; Land Loan and Improvement Company ; and Scottish Drainage and Improvement Company. The Monkland Railway Bill was read a third time, and Lord De Freyne's Estate Bill a second time. GALWAY HARBOUR (No. 2) BILL. On the motion of Mr. C. FORSTER, the following motion was agreed to :—" That standing orders Nos. 199 and 203 be suspended in the case of the Galway Harbour (No. 2) bill, and that the bill be read a second time to morrow. _ ...-..- . LANDLORD AND TENANT (IRELAND) BILL. The house went into committee on this bill, which was introduced by the Attorney-General for Ireland. On clause 1, Mr. M'MAHON moved that the chairman do leave the chair. This was a bill which was entirely for the benefit of the landlord, as far as it could be gathered from a careful study of its provisions, for the Government had not stated what its real objects were. He thought before they pro ceeded further in the consideration of the bill that it should be reprinted. The bill contained 106 sections and repealed 57 acts of Parliament, while it changed altogether the re lation between landlord and tenant. Every one who wished well to Ireland must desire that the laws of Eng land should be extended to that country, but this bill had the contrary effect, for instead of the usual contract be tween the landlord and tenant in regard to land, it substi tuted a parliamentary contract. By the 31st section it was provided that any tenant having less than a perpetual interest in the land was prohibited from cutting down trees, and for cutting a hedge, or even a gooseberry bush, he was subject to a penalty of £5. The hon. and learned member here quoted the authority of some practical writers on this subject, to show the injurious objection of this provision. It was further provided by the bill that if a tenant violated his covenant in regard to cropping, accord ing to his landlord's view, he might be taken before a jus tice of peace and sentenced to three months' imprisonment. Certainly there was an appeal to the courts of law, but in the meantime he might be undergoing imprisonment, and the justice of the peace was subject to no penalty under the act for anything he did, however unjust it might subse quently demonstrated to have been. What he asked was that the landlord and tenant should n it be interfered with, or if the legislature did meddle with them, at least it should be for giving Ireland the same law as prevailed in this country. Again, with regard to eviction, the powers given to land lords were very arbitrary, for it enabled him to eject a tenant in opposition to an expressed or modified contract, in the ease of the land being overheld. The hon. and learned gentleman contended that in regard to distressing a tenant the law was also most unfair in the power it gave the land lord, and read some of the acts which the bill proposed to repeal without any substitution. He concluded by appeal ing to the house not to proceed with the bill at this ad vanced period of the session, when there was such a thin attendance, and when they had no chance of passing it through the House of Lords. Mr. WHITESIDE seconded the amendment, and con tended that the bill was a failure as it did not deal with the law of fixture and distress. In the bill which he had in troduced on this subject provisions were made in reference to these points, and he recommended to the Attorney-Ge neral for Ireland to postpone any measure on this subject until next session. After a few words from Mr. COOPER, Mr. DEASY said he did not think the conduct of the hon. andlearned member for Wexford (Mr. M'Mahon) was fair to him or to the house, considering that the bills had been, discussed and the principle affirmed on the second reading. The hon. and learned member was not present on that occasion, and it was unjust to re-open subjects which had already been decided ; and with reference to his state ment, as to no explanation having been offered by Govern ment, he reminded the house that on the occasion of the second reading he explained the main provisions of the measure, though he thought it unnecessary to enter into details as the bill had virtually been before the house for the last four or five years. It would have been fairer to him (Mr. Deasy) if the hon. and learned member had given him notice of amendments to any particular clauses, and on. the second reading of the bill, he invited the co-operation of legal gentlemen and the criticism of the house ; pass a bill that his only object was to would improve the law between landlord and tenant. He denied that the bill was unjust to the tenant because it prov id e d for facilitating the law in the enforce ment of contracts between landlord and tenent. Nothing was so injurious to the tenant as the existing state of the law , a s it afforded temptations to litigation, and induced him to expend his money in law instead of on improving the land or paying his rent. He adverted to two cases illustrating his opinion, which had recently come under his experience. When the clauses came before the committee he would be prepared to rec nsider, amend, or expunge if it was shown to him to be desirable. (Hear, hear.) The bill was some time before the house. 1t was brought in im mediately after his resolution, and read a second time on. the 15th May. Notwithstanding that he had invited the assistance and suggestions of his legal friends in Ireland as well as those interested in the lama, there was no objection made to him against the bill, but on the contrary he had received from both classes strong expressions of ap proval of its provisions, and requests urging him to press it forward this session. He did not consider the provisions of the bill of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Whiteside) cal culated to simplify the law, and they were likely to tend to litigation, which was the reason wb.y he did not introduce them into his bill. Mr. LEFROY considered that the objections of title hon. member (Mr. M'Mahon) were =rev sonable, but at the ~~-~~X ~, ) ,) 2 ) 3 r) 4 )) 5 4 to alf ; r) 1 s) 2 hs. v all as) 1 :er) 2 dy) 3 ns) ns) 5 ily by VEIL