The Sun. — London, England, 1860-08-25 00:00:00

IMPER .AMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five:o'clock. THE MARRIAGE LAWS. Lord REDESDALE presented 23 petitions from Liver pool and other places against any alteration in the marriage law to legalise the marriage with a deceased wife's sister. HIGHWAYS LAND CONSOLIDATION BILL. The NOBLE Lon]) also laid on the table a bill calculated to effect the consolidation of the law relating to highways. The bill was read a first time. LAW REFORM. The LORD CHANCELLOR called the attention of the house to the measures for law reform introduced into that house during the present session. The noble and learned lord having laid on the table a bill to repeal a great number of statutes, said he did so, not with the idea of its being passed this session, but that it might be printed, circulated, and considered previous to the commencement of the next session. In proceeding to notice the legal reforms that had been introduced into their lordships' house, he observed that the endeavours in the direction of law reform had been looked upon as a failure ; but he was not of that opinion, because, although un doubtedly there had been many failures, measures had been passed which would, without doubt, greatly benefit the public. He felt great pleasure that the Court of Chan cery Bill had passed both houses, and only awaited the Royal Assent. The Companies' Bill, one to conso lidate the whole of the laws relating to joint-stock companies, had also received the concurrence of all parties in their lordships' house, and having passed all its stages, it was sent to the Commons on the sth of March. Unfortunately it did not appear on the business paper until nearly the close of the session, and when it was taken under discussion it was thought better that it should, for the present, be withdrawn. Several bills for the consolidation of the criminal law were next introduced, and it was much to be regretted after the immense labour that had been expended on those bills that they had also to be withdrawn, and he could not refrain from saying that he looked upon such a proceeding with the greatest regret. The next bill introduced was one to deal with persons guilty of administering poisons ; that bill however was more fortunate, and had passed all its stages, and received the royal assent. The bill for enabling courts of common law to exercise equitable jurisdiction in certain cases had also passed, and the benefit it would confer would be incalculable. He had also introduced a bill to put an end to the scan dalous system of English bankrupts going to Scotland to get what was vulgarly termed white-washed, after a residence in that countryof 40 days which was inva riably spent in deer stalking and grouse shooting. The measure, he rejoiced to say, had also received the sanction of Parliament, anda system had been abolished which had long been very justly complained of. The Divorce Bill was sent to the Commons at an early period, but after considerable delay the searching eye of some members discovered an informality in the bill, and raised a question of privilege as to one of its clauses. It was shown that it was an invasion of privilege that the Queen's Proctor should have a coun sel to assist him ; but it was asked that ho should be allowed certain fees, and that they should be paid out of the consoli dated fund. This certainly had escaped the vigilance of those who prepared the clause; but the House of Commons instead of doing what they would have been fully justified in doing, namely, rejecting the bill, in the handsomest manner, seeing that there was no intention to infringe their privileges, merely said, "take care this is not drawn into a precedent," and the bill was allowed to pass, and had come back to their lordships again. The next measure he wished to mention was the Endowed Charities Bill. With all his (the Lord Chancellor's) respect for the Court of Chancery, he thought it was an improvement that an application to the Court of Chancery should not be requisite on every occa sion when funds were to be dealt with in the hands of the Charity Commissioners, whose assiduity and veal in their office of trustees were most conspicuous. The only other bill with which he would trouble their lordships was one to enable the Lord Chancellor, with the assistance of:the equity judges, to carry into effect the recommendations of the commissioners appointed to consider the best mode of examining witnesses in Chancery. It had appeared to him (the Lord Chancellor) that under the authority of former Acts of Parliament, it was possible for the Chancellor to carry these recommendations into effect without further powers, but his noble and learned friend (Lord Lyndhurst) was of a different opinion, and out of deference to him the bill was introduced. Great progress had already been made towards carrying out those recommendations, and he had no doubt that by the end of the long vacation orders might be framed and promulgated under the authority of the Lord Chancellor and the other equity judges, by means of which these recommendations would become binding on the court. The only remaining bill was one which was still before the other house of Parliament, and still remained in thebalance —it did not, therefore, become him to say much respecting it. The object of the bill was to provide that when a divorce a vinculo matrimonii had been duly pronounced by the Scotch courts, it should be valid over all England, instead of being valid in one part of the island and invalid in ano ther. The bill was only to come into operation where the parties were domiciled in Scotland, and that most disrepu table practice would be put a stop to of procuring a sentence of divorce when the parties came into Scotland for the pur pose of having a divorce, and of committing the act for which a divorce was sought. If the other house of Parliament, upon reconsideration, would admit these two clauses, he (the Lord Chancellor) should greatly rejoice. But whether that were so or not, he trusted he had pointed out to their lordships that various bills had passed that house with the approbation of the other from which very material benefits might be expected. (Hear.) His noble friend (Lord St. Leonardo) had already introduced a learned and valuable measure for the improvement of the law of property; the noble and learned lord opposite (Lord Cranworth) had im proved the law relating to trustees and committees ; and Lord Brougham, who was absent from the house, had largely contributed to the reform of the law. It was altogether a most monstrous exaggeration to say that this session had been a failure so far as law reform was concerned. He was happy to say that by the course of steady reform which had been introduced into the administration of justice, the business of the courts was now in a more satisfactory state than it had ever been. (Hear, bear.) He remembered the time when there was such an arrear that appeals stood for years in their lordships' paper unheard. There had recently been great improvements, but the hope that all appeals set down would be decided before the session was concluded had hardly ever been realised. At the end of the present session, however, they had been able to dispose of not only the appeals set down for hearing before the session begun, but several which had been placed in the list since. On the whole, thirty-two appeals had been heard, so that at the teginuing of next sess i on t wenty- f our would remain for earing. (Hear.) He would take an example of the de spatch with which cases were now disposed of—the history of one only. It was that of the Royal Westminster Palace a Hotel. It us e d t o b e sa i d that Chancery suits never to an end, that there was no such thing upon recerdcasmae Chancery suit actually heard and disposed of. In this in stance a joint-stock company had built an hotel, and pro posed to let a part which was completed for the purpose of its being converted into Government offices for the time. This was opposed by certain shareholders, and on the 17th of May in this year (1860) a bill was filed by those who opposed the measure. The cause came on before Vice Chancellor Wood en the 31st May, who decided in favour of the defendants. The appeal came on on the 11th June, but the Lords Justices were divided, and therefore the judgment of the Vice-Chancellor stood unaltered. The appeal to the House of Lords was heard on Monday, the 6th of August, and on the 7th of August judgment was de livered. Thus a suit which was commenced on the 17th of May on the 7th of August was finally disposed of. (Hear.) He could only say that, whilst health and strength re mained to him, he would endeavour to promote the de spatch of legal business, and he would most cordially co operate with any successor of his own in effecting the same end. Lord ST. LEONARDS said that with regard to the first bill to which his noble and learned friend had alluded, he was not struck with the prospect of its very great utility. One of the measures which had been brought forward was undoubtedly a considerable one. It was founded upon the report of certain common law judges, who proposed to take to themselves every part of the jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery. That measure, if it had been passed, would have entirely destroyed the court, and he held that the common law judgeehad neither the time nor the knowledge, neither the practical experience nor the machinery to enable them to supersede the judges in Chancery. The bill went upstairs to a select committee, who struck out all those clauses except two very innocent ones, and the bill thus curtailed had been passed ; but as passed it was a very simple affair. The bill for altering the mode of taking evidence in Chancery would, in his opinion, wholly disorganise the court ; and it would l e nder the office of th e t wo exam i ners, whose salaries had at ely been augme n t e d on account of the increase in tke a 2 1 .4 4 of their labours, a perfect sinecure. If any one tr7ate,b4efore those gentlemen, their evidence would only be make 2. s . wsin.ple affidavit ; and therefore people would Leonard'uottvcolutat instead of going before them. He (Lord St. therefore, that very little had been done for the e eur , fnided ' of CLancery during the past year ; nor did he think that he believed thatwas very much to be regrett e d, f or state and that it vra tb.o penttzdtwas at present i n an a d m i ra bl e , s re ed over by excellent judges. As to the criminal law refs rns, it h a d b ees i n turn the object of every noble and learned lord': olarbteours. In 1852 he had himself proposed to consolidate superintend a con solidation, of the criruirt al l aw, based uPon the report of the Statute Law Coturnissit niers, and the .I:Pers which had since then accumulate d on the strong man to lift. In deed, ho had na b.i hteetwtaonld take a ing that the consolidat ion bills had a i ready 4Pri co i n st say the country no less a s 'than £lOO,OOO. Tv. -ha d be en I made the subject of fi e r p e tual commissions, committees, considerations, an d ex a m i na ti o ns during the l as t twelve ' years ; and , he ventureql, to say that they would never b e passed unless Parliam( !xrt was prepared to put some con l denco in the result. The committee before which they went was a wonderful . one. It consisted of Lord Lynd hurigi• Lord Broughan I, Lord 'Truro, Lord Cranworth, the nobj9 lord on the woo' hack, and himself. They worked at , the bills laboriously and successfully till they came to the definition of " murder." The definition of Sir HA ward Coke was found to be so imperfect that no one wo rad adopt it. Each of them then tried his own hand, but na one would agree to any definition but his own ; and at la! it the noble lord on the woolsack committed what he might almost call murder on the committee by breaking it up, axed announc ing the appointment of a committee in its room. He (the noble lord) had congratulated himself upon what had been done this year, but the noble lord only stood in the same position as every one of his predecessors. ;The noble lord had no doubt passed some important measures ; but they were not measures for the amendment of the him. Of the Divorce Court Bill he (Lord St. Leonardo) entirely disapproved. He thought it was a great mistake to break up the great court which had been formed for the pukpose of dealing with matrimonial suits, and to hand over the entire jurisdiction to the Judge Ordinary. He was at all events perfectly sure that if a proposal had been made in the first instance to have but a single judge, there was not a single man in their lordships' house that would have voted for the hill. In the original report his name stood apart from all the rest with regard to the constitution of the court, because he felt certain that the great judicial func tionaries of whom it was proposed to form the court would never be able to attend. The event had proved thathe was perfectly right, and a bill was brought in to enable the rest of the judges to sit ; but there had been such complaints of the pressure which had been put upon the common law courts, that the present bill was the result. While he maintained that not much had been done this year, he thought that the circumstance was not much to be lamented ; for nothing was more to be deprecated than an excess of legislation, particularly in the shape of law reform. Sound law reform was no doubt a thing of much importance ; but it was very seldom that they could get people to agree as to what was law reform. To alter the law was very easy. It was easy enough to create new courts, and to get Parliament to grant expen sive compensations ; but real reform—that was to say, the alteration of the rules of judicial procedure with benefit to suitors andto the interests of justice—was one of the scarcest things and one of the most difficult things to achieve that could be imagined. He made these remarks, not in any de preciation of what the noble and learned lord on the wool sack had done, but because he really thought that very little had, after all, been accomplished. With regard to the judicial business of the house, he had also to observe that the noble lord could not fairly contrast what had been done this year with what had been done is time past. The crea tion of the Lords Justices' Court, and the establishment of the Master of the Rolls' Court as a separate one, had given the Lord Chancellor far more time to devote to appeals than he formerly possessed. The case he had cited—that of the Westminster Palace Hotel—turned merely on the construction of a word. It was no question of evidence or administration ; and 50 or 100 such cases were despatched in the Court of Chancery every week, and at a very trifling expense. The case was a very good example o f the celerity with which such matters could be disposed of, but it proved no more. The Court of Chancery was no doubt now a very good one; and he only hoped that it would not be spoiled by the new mode of taking evidence. Lord ORAN WORTH said the noble and learned lord who had just sat down had placed himself in somewhat of a dilemma ; for in the same breath he had complained that nothing had been done for the Court of Chancery, and had argued that nothing wanted doing. He so far agreed with the noble lord, that he thought it would be very mis chievous for each Chancellor of the Exehequer to fancy himself called upon to introduce bills merely for the pur pose of making alterations in the law ; but he could not agree that nothing had been done this year for the Court of Chancery. On the contrary, he believed that the introduc tion of oral evidence into Chancery would prove a most useful reform ; nor did he think that the salaries of the two eaa•- miners ought to stand in the way of so great an improve ment. He agreed with the noble lord that the courts of common law had no machinery for discharging the duties of the Court of Chancery. If they gave them the same ma chinery it would be another matter; but at present he could not agree to the proposal, though it was backed by so high an•authority as that of the noble lord on the woolsack, the Lord Chief justice, and two other eminent judges. With regard to the consolidation of the Statute-book, it appeared to him that the best course would be first to pass all the amendments they proposed to introduce, and then to conso lidate. That might appear rather technical ; but it did not seem to him reasonable to expect that Parliament should pass on trust seven bills containing, one 260 clauses, another 340, another 120, and so on, unless it was assured that those bills did nothing but consolidate the law as it stood. He thought, too, that it would not be advisable to include the Irish law in the first instance. Such a plan only increased the difficulty of passing the bills ; and the failure of the at tempt this session might possibly be attributable to that cause. After the law of each country had been separately consolidated, it might be found more easy to amalgamate the whole, so as to have but one statute-book for the whole United Kingdom. Though the statute-commission had proved a failure, he believed their labours had in reality laid the foundation of many important improvements. In the ensuing session he should himself introduce several bills which would be portions of a bit-by-bit law reform ; and he believed the noble lord opposite (Lord Redesdale) would propose a bill to consolidate the law respecting highways. With regard to the judicial business of the house, he agreed that it had never been carried on so successfully as during the present session ; and it was but just to say that the noble load on the woolsack had succeeded to rather more arrears than usual. That fact was not to any Net of Lord Chelms ford or of himself; but it was owing to eight or nine of the best weeks in each of their terms of office having been lost by the elections. As for the effect which the Lords Justices' Court had upon the judicial business of the house, he must remind their lordships that that court had existed in exactly the same form as it did at present ever since the time of Lord Truro ; and he believed it rather increased than diminished the number of appeals, because it encou raged persons to come before the house by the facilities it afforded them for having their business disposed of. SALE OF GAS ACT ♦MENDMENT BILL. On the motion of Lord REDESDALE, one of the Com mons' amendments to this bill was agreed to, and the other disagreed to. SAVINGS BANKS AND FRIENDLY SOCIETIES INVESTMENTS BILL. This bill passed through committee. PEACE PRESERVATION (IRELAND) ACT (1856: AMENDMENT BILL. This bill passed through committee. PARTY EMBLEMS (IRELAND) BILL. _ The Commons' amendments to this bill were considered and agreed to. EAST INDIA LOAN BILL. This bill passed through committee. DEBTOR AND CREDITORS ACT AMENDMENT BILL. The Common? amendments to this bill were considered and agreed to. THE SPIRIT DUTIES BILL. This bill passed through committee. ROMAN CATHOLIC CHARITIES. BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the snspension of the standing orders, in order that this bill might be read a second time. After a short conversation the motion was agreed to. CONSOLIDATED FUND (APPROPRIATION) . BILL. This bill was read a second time. EXCHEQUER BONDS OR BILLS (£2,000,000) BILL. This bill was read a second time. MILITIA PAY BILL. This bill was also read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) Tha SPEAK= took the chair at a quarter past three o'clock. BOARD OF WORKS. Mr. E. JAMES gave notice that earl) , next session he would move for a commission to inquire into the working of the Commissioners of Works-office, with a view to ascer tain if more efficiency could not be secured in that depart ment of the public service. THE INDIAN TELEGRAPH. Mr. CONINGHAM asked the Secretary to the Treasury who was the engineering adviser of the Government in the matter of the Indian Telegraph, and whether he was the gentleman who acted as engineer of the surveying expedi tion to the Isthmus of Darien, which terminated dis astrously ? Mr. M. GIBSON said that Mr. L. Gisborne w as re , tamed as surveyor of the undertaking in question. PREVENTION OF RECOIL OF GUNS. Mr. CONINGHAM asked the Secretary to the Admi ralty, whether the Lords of the Admiralty had any inten tion of adopting a plan, as sent in by C. W. Forbes, Esq., for checking the recoil of the gun by spring buffers, and which was about to be adopted by the French Government. Lord C. PAGET said that there was no plan in regard to this matter submitted to Government. In reply to Mr. WHALLEY, INCOME TAX. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that in some cases the practice was to modify the Income-tax. He supposed the question of the hon. member had reference to a general measure on the subject of the incidence of the inequality of the tax, and it was not proposed to introduce any measure of that description. THE POST-OFFICE. Sir G. BOWYER asked whether it was the intention of the Post-office authorities to farm out the paying and issu- Ng window of the chief money order office; that is to say, whether they intend to confide it to a private individual, who for certain advantages would contract to supply the labour, in order that the regular appointments may be abolished ; and, if so, what was proposed to be done with the officers who are to bo thus superseded in their duties by contract labour, the whole of those officers having been more than five years on the establishment. Mr. LAING said that with regard to the first part of the question, no decision hid been come to. The subject of Compensation for loss of office would be regulated by the body to whom these matters bad been referred. Tlle CIiA.NCE GLOB. of the EXCHEQUER said with for D und alk to .. _ a question put by the hon. baronet the member aslk (Sir G. Bowyer) on a previous occasion, he ~~~ rrn SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, AUGUST 25, 1860. wished to state that the report of the Commission relative to the Post-office could not possibly be laid on the table this session. POOR RATES, &c. On the motion of Mr. J. WHITE, the following return was ordered :—That the Return 11. of male occupiers in Parliamentary cities and borough, 124, of the present ses sion of Parliament, be amended so as to include the cor rected numbers of male occupiers at £6 and under £lO, in certain cities and boroughs, as laid before the select com• mittee of the House of Lords on the elective franchise on the 6th day of June, 1860, by the Poor Law Board ; and that the return, as amended, should contain information arranged according to the annexed form. GARIBALDI. Mr. E. JAMES asked whether any official information had been received of the landing of General Garibaldi in Calabria, and the capture by his troops of the town of Reggio. Lord PALMERSTON replied in the negative. THE AUSTRALIAN POSTAL SERVICE. In reply to Mr. HENNESSY, Mr. LAING said that the present Government thought that the system of ocean postage had been pushed to an extreme, and that it was not intended to carry out the views of their predecessors in regard to this matter. AUSTRIA AND NORTHERN ITALY. Mr. BUTT referred to statements that have appeared in the continental journals—let. That the Austrian Govern ment has intimated to that of Turin that they would treat the landing of Garibaldi in the Neapolitan dominions as a eausus belli between Austria and Northern Italy ; 2. That Austria had engaged or tendered support to the King of Naples, by armed" intervention, against any attempt at re volution ; To ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether her Majesty's Government had received any information of such a menace being addressed to the Court of Turin, or such an engagement or offer having been made to that of Naples ? Lord PALMERSTON said that the Austrian Govern ment did not intend to interfere in the transactions going on in Italy, but were determined to defend their own fron tiers. There was ground for supposing that any such communication as`that alluded to had taken place. DIVORCE COURT BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. TRUSTEES AND MORTGAGEES, &c., BILL. The amendments to this bill were considered and agreed to, and the bill was ordered for third reading. CONJUGAL RIGHTS (SCOTLAND) BILL. The consideration of the Lords' reasons for disagreeing with the Commons' amendments to this bill, which was on the orders of the day, was postponed until to-morrow. PUBLIC BUSINESS. On the formal motion that the house adjourn till Mon. day, Mr. T. DUNCOMBE moved the following resolution as a standing order :—" That on the question of adjournment from Friday to Monday, all discussion shall be confined to questions relating to the intended business of the following week, or to matters of public urgency demanding immediate attention." He complained of the present practice that prevailed of bringing forward miscellaneous subjects which were not of a pressing character on Friday, to the delay of public business. Sir G. C. LEWIS agreed with the hon. member (Mr. Duncombe), but as the matter would be referred to a com mission, and as there was a thin attendance of members, he considered it would not be advisable to discuss the question at present. After some conversation the subject dropped. FOREIGN AFFAIRS. Mr. KINNAIRD moved the adjournment of the house, in order to call attention, before the session closed, to the long-talked-of Conference of the great Powers on the sub ject of Savoy. The calm dignity, forbearance, and firm ness manifested by Switzerland with reference to the an nexation of Chablais, Faucigny, and Geneva, neither seduced by promises nor shaken by menaces, had been such as to call forth general admiration. (Hear, hear.) The neutrality of Switzerland was guaranteed, in the interests of peace, by all the great European Powers in 1815. Pied mont, be, bound herself to Switzerland by the treaty of March hi, 1816, never to alienate the provinces in question to any third Power. But it was a manifest absurdity to suppose that any portion of a great empire like France could really remain neutral, and consequently the possession of these provinces by such an empire would be a standing menace to the security and independence of Switzerland. (Hear.) It was a guard against such a danger that provi sion was made in the treaty of 1815 for the neutrality of the three provinces. Two things were essential to the neu trality of any State—the wish and the power to be so. Now, Switzerland was weak cat the side of Savoy. A frontier easy of defence was necessary to her existence, and on that side she has no frontier that she could defend. The Powers of Europe, therefore, gave her a military and strategic fron tier besides her political one. It was for the maintenance of this that Switzerland appealed to the public opinion of Europe, and he hoped that the session would not close without an assurance from the noble lord that the Con ference which had been promised would speedily be held. (Hear, hear.) It was not simply a matter of treaty but a question ofonatural right. They all knew that these pro vinces were naturally connected with Switzerland, and that all their produce and trade found an outlet at Geneva and the canton. It was not, therefore, a question of treaty but of natural right which had thus been aggressively taken from them. (Hear, hear.) He believed that Switzerland was entitled to thanks of Europe for the manner in which she had maintained her rights. If, in addition to great foresight, she had not acted with great prudence and moderation, it was impossible to say what would have been the consequences to Europe. (Hear.) It would be in the recollection of the house that when his hon. friend first asked the Government whether there was any intention to annex Savoy and Nice hardly any one believed it. They were indebted to Switzerland for first calling the attention of Europe to this act of aggression. At the time when the question was first put by his hon. friend he was one who placed implicit confidence in the speech at Milan of the Emperor of the French, and in the statement of Count Cavour, that Sardinia would neither cede, sell, or exchange that property which she was bound by special treaty with Switzerland to hold. He therefore scarcely gave credence that such an act of aggression was actually in contempla tion. He thought that Switzerland acted nobly in refusing to treat alone with the Emperor of the French. Switzer land, putting aside her individual interests, determined not to accept anything from the Emperor, but to stand by her rights. He trusted that those rights would be brought be fore a Conference of the great Powers, and he believed it would then be shown that might was not right, and that there was justice in the cause and in the policy which Swit zerland had adopted. He did not wish to detain the house at that period of the session. He would only say that the cir cumstances which had occurred, and the circumstances which were occurring, showed that the Government ought to be prepared for all eventualities. It was a remarkable feet that not many months ago news came from across the Channel that the Emperor of the French was already weary of Italian affairs and that they would soon hear of great events in the East. They little thought at that time how soon the fearful massacres in Syria would follow, and how circumstancs would arise which seemed to call on France to occupy that country. When they looked at affairs in Italy they must feel how important it was that England should be prepared. He trusted that the report that Austria was about to take active measures against the rising liberties of Italy was untrue, and that it was, as they had hoard, the fixed in tention of Austria to remain, unless attacked, in the Quadri lateral. He hoped that those who conducted the Italian cause would still maintain the moderation which they had hitherto exhibited, and that nothing would happen to cause them to regret the progress which Italian liberty had made, and which had given the greatest satisfaction to every mem ber of the house and to every one in the country. (Hear.) He wished to put the question of which he had given no tice—" Whether definitive arrangements had been made for assembling the Conference proposed to be held at the in stance of the Swiss Confederation; and, if not, whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Government to recognise the annexation of Savoy and Nice as a valid act, forming part of the public law of Europe; also, whether any other of the five great Powers were acting in this matter in con junction with her Majesty's Government ?" The SPEAKER, having put the question that the house do now adjourn, Mr. KINGLAKE rose and said—There was, I believe, an understanding that before the close of the session some opportunity should be given to us for raising a discussion on foreign affairs, and although I cannot say, looking at the empty state of the house, that the present opportunity is a very promising one, I am anxious, if the house will so far in• dulge me, to address to it a few observations on the subject. I think it will be admitted, by her Majesty's Ministers and by the house in general, that those who are accustomed to take an interest in foreign affairs have not been wanting in forbearance towards the Government, and have not been guilty of anything like undue intrusion on the time of the hour for we must remember that the present state of affair n Europe is one of an unusually critical kind. (Cheers.) I cm dially agree with every word which has been said loy my hon. friend the member for Perth with re- gard to the conduct of the Swiss Confederation. fam bound to say that in the earliest stage of the transaction which was the subject of my hon. friend's speech Switzerland perceived the danger in which she was placed. She com- rn unicated that danger at the earliest time to all those on whose friendship she was entitled to count, and from that hour to the present she has never for one moment swerved in the earnestness of her endeavour to preserve her own rights and to protect the true interests of Europe. (Hear.) She has never for a moment forgotten that vital as the question was to her the question was one of deep impor tance to Europe. (Hear, hear.) And, therefore, when- ever pressed, whether by the menace or, as my lion, friend termed it, by the cajolery of her powerful neighbour, she has always answered that the question, though vital to her, was also a European question, and by the great Powers of Europe her rights and interests were to be judged. (Hear, hear.) It is very true that this question of the annexation of Savoy and Nice has disturbed Europe, but I must say _ . that it is right that it should be so, for I cannot conceive anything more lamentable than that a great wrong of this description should be perpetrated to the prejudice of a weak bat deserving power such as Switzerland, and Europe should stand by acquiescing in such a transaction. (Cheers.) _ _ . My hen ? friend behind pae, the ,allant member for Lie keard, in the course of some discussion which took place on the question of fortifications, more than once addressed to the Government a very pregnant question. To that ques tion he never received any answer, because the question was one which could be more conveniently answered or commented upon by an independent member of Parliament than by a Minister of the Crown. My gallant friend asked why it was that the report of the Commissioners having been placed in the hands of the Government so early as the month of February no application was made to the house to act on these recommendations until the month of July. My answer is that between the month of February and the month of July a momentous change took place in the state of European affairs. I ventured, as early as the month of February, to warn the house that when the Emperor of the French proposed to break through the public law of Europe he was doing that which would place us all in a new condition —he was doing that which effected a transition, if I may so express it, from right to might, and it became certain, in my opinion, that if he should carry out the purpose with which we were then menaced we should hear less of treaties and less of negotiations, and a great deal more of fortifica tions, battalions, batteries, and all the implements of war. (Cheers.) So it has turned out, and that I think is the an swer to the question of my hen, friend. (Hear.) The truth is, that the annexation of these countries, even if it had been assented to by England, would have been a very grave af fair, but it took place contrary to the declared recommenda tion of England, and when it took place, I may say, in the teeth of the English Government, it became a transaction of momentous importance. It took place at a time when Parliament was sitting, and I do think that if at such a time we had remained silent we should have been guilty of a shameful abandonment of our duty; and I will do her Majesty's Ministers the justice to say that I believe they shared in that opinion. (Hear, hear.) It is natural for Ministers to dislike being interfered with. All men in pos session of power naturally like to exercise it with as little extraneous advice as possible. But her Majesty's Ministers must do those who acted with me in these matters the jus tice to say, that not only did we dg right in calling the at tention of the house to them, but that we should have done wrong had we failed to take that course. I will not say that the urgency of those protests had any effect upon her Ma jesty's Ministers, for I believe it is a truer and more gene rous view of the matter to say, that they who are English men like ourselves were sharers, from the beginning, in the feelings which influenced us, and that the principles we were venturing to inculcate—if not finally adopted by them —were inchoate in• their minds and on the point of being adopted. Accordingly, when the 26th of March came we had the gratification of hearing that the Government were sharers in those opinions which we had humbly ven tured to urge upon them. The purport of the famous de claration of the 26th of Match was simply this—it an nounced dish est of France and the determination of Eng land not to keep aloof from other Powers. I recollect the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs pronounced these momentous words in a significant but low tone, but all Europe listened to what he said, and it was not long before that important declaration produced the fruits which it was calculated to bear. At the time that declaration was made there was nothing like union throughout Germany, but no sooner was it known that England was distrustful of France and was turning to other Powers, than the States of Ger many not only determined among themselves that each would separately express an inclination to turn towards Eng land, but their language among themselves was of the most simple and practical kind. They said, as long as we are disunited we are hardly worthy to proffer ourselves for an English alliance—let us be united among ourselves, let us be ablelo say that Germany against the foreigner will act as one, and then we shall be in a condition to proffer to England a German alliance. I rejoice to see that that prin ciple was acted on at Baden, and was carried to a comple tion the other day at Toplitz. If the existing state of things is satisfactory in comparision wit& that which existed before we owe it in part to Germany, and in part to the determi nation of this house, one reacting, if I may so speak, on the other. It is a subject of congratulation that Germany is now united ; we are entitled to take a little pride that this house has found means in a worthy manner to cause its opinion to be once more heard with respect in Europe. (Hear, hear.) Anterior to the Treaty of Turin the situation of the Emperor of the French in Europe was one of immense weight. Germany was disunited, Russia is known at that time to have approached, at all events, to something like an understanding with France, and the alliance, or, at all events, the cordial understanding which had for some time existed between France and England had placed France in such a position that she was relieved from all anxiety with regard to her sea communications. The consequence was that, being able to wield her immense military force by land and to move as she chose by sea, France had acquired so great an ascendancy in Europe as to cause the deepest anxiety to all those who are accustomed to attribute im portance to the balance of power. (Hear, hear.) The Treaty of Turin was signed—signed, as I have said, in defiance, so to speak, of England. The result is that the Emperor of the French has these provinces which he has now gone, it is said, to visit. No doubt the Savoyard battalions and the seaboard of Nice and the adjacent country are ac quisitions of great importance —no doubt, also the frontier, menacing to Italy and menacing to Germany, is a matter of deep importance; but, on the other hand, it is to be ob served that in exchange for these acquisitions the friend ship of England has been converted into that avowed dis trust which was expressed on the 26th of March in words, and which has since been expressed still More significantly by our armaments. (Hear.) Moreover, Germany, now united and alarmed, is making her preparations on her eastern frontier, and the countries more immediately bor dering on France—Switzerland and Belgium—have been so thorough . ) , alarmed by the proceedings of the Emperor that I think we have no reason to fear anything like lan guid acquiescence on their part. (Hear.) If I am en titled to assume, as I trust I am, that the answer of the noble lord to the second branch of my hon. friend's question will be such as we have a right to expect—if we are to be told, as I trust we shall be, that although England did not think fit to resist that annexation by force, yet she will nevertheless decline to recognise it, then it is very important to observe the change which is this effected in the position of the Emperor of the French ; because, whereas he was be fore not merely recognised fully as an equal Sovereign, if I may so express it, but the ally of England, now the recog nition of his character as Emperor of that which he consi i ders the French empire is, in a sense, qualified, for I trust we shall hear that the British Government is not prepared to do any formal act which shall amount to a recognition of this annexation. (Hear, hear.) For instance, if it should happen that our Consul at Nice were to die or to resign, then I trust we may beassured that the English Government would not ask an exequatur from the Emperor of the French for any new consul in his place. (Hear, hear.) lam anxious to say a few words on the subject of Syria. It was my fate many years ago to be a traveller in that country, and one finds that when one has become personally acquainted with a distant country one is apt to keep up one's knowledge, and even after a great lapse of time, one's interest in it is frequently continued. In several discussions which have taken place here on this subject I have heard the noble lord at the head of the Government taunted for the part which he took in 1840 in displacing Mehemet Ali from Syria. We have been told that Mehemet Ali was an excellent and vi gorous governor who maintained order in that country, and that we did very wrong —the gallant member for Southwark made the observation, I think, when we took measures which had the effect of displacing him. It is rather singular for those who are filled with horror at the Turks and at mas sacres to come forward and befriend this man Mehemet Ali. I was in that country at the time when his power was in full force, and I say his reign was simply a reign of terror. He was a Turk, and a Turk of the most ferocious kind, and probably the most wicked of all the massacres which have occurred in this country was a massacre perpe trated by Mehemet Ali. He invited to a banquet at his castle all the Mamelulces of Egypt—the aristocracy of the country—the men who had been in a rude way the deposi tories of the governing power, and when he had them all in the courtyard of his castle he caused them all to be massa cred ; so that to the cruelty and bloodthirstiness of perpe trating a massacre there were added the treachery and wickedness of a host who murders his own guests. (Hear.) Therefore we might have been spared anything like taunts for displacing such a man from the government of Syria. There has been, too, a good deal of unfairness towards the Ottoman Government in these discussions. It is impossible to overstate the poltroonery—f .r I believe that was, in fact, the real cause—of the wretched Turkish officers who stood by while the horrors of which we complain were being per petrated ; but if we ascend higher in the chain of causation, and ask what the causes really were, I am afraid that, instead of being able to fix the responsibility on the Turkish Government, it is to the Powers of Europe that the responsibility will in a great degree attach. In 1842 or 1843, and at a time when Lord Aberdeen held the seals of the Foreign-office, changes were pressed upon the Turkish Government in regard to the management of the Lebanon. First, the Porte was urged to appoint a se parate Kaimakan for the Druses and the Maronites, so that in point of fact we called on the Turkish Government to allow, not an imperiurn in inzperio, but two imperia in impair°, those two imperia being embittered in their feeling towards each other by a traditional hostility. (Hear.) In the perverseness of our recommendations we did not stop there. We required Turkey to abstain from having troops in the mountains, so that we provided not only that these hostile tribes should be perpetually confrontin,g each other, but that the Ottoman Government should withdraw the very means by which the Druses and Maronites might be prevented from coming into conflict. Nov, surely after the European Powers have taken upon themselves theresponsibility of in terfering in that way with the affairs of the Lebanan, they • _ cannot very fairly turn round upon Turkey and accuse her of having permitted disturbances which, in a sense, may be traced to the advice pressed by them upon the Porte. With regard to the immediate cause of these massacres, I desire to abstain from expressing any opinion ; but there are two or three circumstances which will serve as a clue, and will enable Lord Dufferin to ascertain what I may call the final cause of these disasters, If lam rightly informed, a vast quantity of rifles were not long ago distributed among the Maronites : (Hear, hear.) - Now I have never seen one of those rifles, but, if the information which reaches me be correct, it will turn out that they are not the rifles of commerce, but bear upon them a stamp which shows that they came from the Government stores of a European country. If that ie the case, and if Lord Dufferin succeed in sending home one or two of these rifles marked with such a stamp, we shall have one clue to the cause of the dis turbances. There is another clue to which I think I may venture to direct Lord Dufferin's attention. For a long time there has been published at Beyrout an Arabic newspaper. That newspaper contains articles, couched in very bitter and ferocious terms, having a ten dency to incite the Christians against the Druses, and also to irritate them against the English, on account, I suppose, of the impression which certainly prevails in those countries, that the English arc the friends of the Druses. I am told that this newspaper, although published at Bey rout, is printed in one of the capitals of Europe ; and if that is so—if this journal is printed in a city where it would be hardly safe or profitable for private individuals to engage in such i a manufacture without the consent of the Govern ment—then I think we shall have another clue to the final cause of the disturbances. (Hear, hear.) With the per mission of the house I am now anxious to say a few words on the subject of Italy. (Hear.) Sir, the public prints inform us this day—though, as it seems, the Government have received no official communication of the fact—that General Garibaldi has effected a landing in Calabria, and for a long time there has been an impression, founded upon the collapsed state of the Government of Naples, that Gene ral Garibaldi may succeed in displacing the Government, probably going much further, and, if one may use a military phrase, "rolling up" the greater part of Italy. It is also given out that when this consummation is effected move ments will also be directed against Venetia. At such a moment it was natural that Austria should be very vigilant. 'Everybody must admit that where you see an enemy pre paring to attack you you are not always bound to wait un til the attack takes place. That is a maxim that prevails all over the world, but as a matter of policy of course you need not act upon it if your opponent is vastly inferior to yourself in strength. I have heard, therefore, with the greatest satisfaction that Austria, notwithstanding reports to the contrary, has determined not to interfere with any of General Garibaldi's operations either in Naples or in the Papal States. That is a determination which places the Emperor of Austria in a most admirable position towards Europe. Considering the antecedents of Austria, I think the fact that she has arrived at such a conclusion entitles her to great praise for the moderation and wisdom which she is thus displaying. (Hear, hear.) One of my princi pal reasons for now venturing to address the house is my desire to express an earnest hope that, beyond the acquisition of Naples and Rome, no wild attempt will be made by Gen. Garibaldi against Venetia. I am speak ing on the assumption that France will not interfere ; and I say that if the Italians, unassisted by France, ventured to assail the great Quadrilateral which repelled the Emperor of the French, common prudence must lead us to fear that such an attempt could not be made with any fair chance of success. If it failed what would be the position of Italy? Why, Austria, burs,ing forth from the Quadrilateral, and claiming the right to pursue those who attacked her, would, unless some miracle prevented her, overrun with great ease the vale of Lombardy, and would reach, with out any serious difficulty, the gates of Turin itself. I think, therefore, that the most ardent friends of Italy must, if they have any prudence in them, join in the hope that no attempt beyond the one I have referred to will be made by General Garibaldi. It is suggested, I know, that Venetia should be transferred to the Italian people by purchase or in some such way. There are many who look upon the possession by Austria of any territory in the north-east of Italy as the greatest possible eyesore. But the experience we have had of modern transfer by one coun try to another—the transfer, for example, of Savoy and Nice to France—does not make me at all desirous to see con duct of that kind imitated by the Emperor of Austria. I am bound also to say that the annexation of Savoy and Nice has brought into a new light the importance of the great Quadrilateral to Austria. Every one acquainted with mili tary operations in that part of the world knows that the cccupation of Switzerland gives to any country the power, so to speak, of rolling up all the defences on the Rhine. The oc cupation of Switzerland is, therefore, of the deepest import ance in the event of a war between France and Germany. It is vital indeed, because it is on the flank. (Hear.) Since the annexation of the neutralised provinces we are bound to see how the neutrality of Switzerland can best be maintained. The question is one which affects this country deeply, be cause the noble lord the Foreign Secretary has stated that ' her Majesty's Government would feel bound to maintain the neutrality and independence of Switzerland, which again so vitally affect the defence of the Rhine. But quis custodiet ipsunz custodem ? Who shall be the safeguard of this safe guard ? In point of fact, I believe it will be found, in any struggle between Germany and France, that the first ques tion which will arise will be whether the neutrality of Swit zerland can or cannot be maintained, and the means by which it is to be maintained are the possession of the Quad rilateral. lam glad to see the hon, and gallant officer opposite (Sir F. Smith), and I think he will confirm what I believe is the opinion of most officers, that the best support of the neu trality of Switzerland is a strong power in the direction of the great Quadrilateral. I will only further say that, having made great sacrifices in the way of armaments, I think it would be intolerable if what we are doing by our arma ments should be defeated by anything like a perverse sys tem of alliances. lam of opinion that there is no country whose interests are more compatible with those of England than France. (Hear.) It is true that France is a great country, and in one sense is a rival country, but the ex perience of the years which elapsed between the termination of the last war and 1852 show that the interests of the two countries are perfectly compatible. During the whole of that period there was hardly any dispute which was not of what I may call a dynastic character. For instance, when first after the congress of Vienna was peace threatened ? It was by the Spanish marsiages, and no one will say that the interests of France were concerned in that affair. I re peat that the interests of England and France are quite compatible, and that all we desire is that the Government of France should be animated by principles truly and de cidedly French; but when the Government neglects the true interests of France, and proceeds to look after merely dynastic objects, then the alliance between the two coun tries is endangered. As longas a truly French policy is pur sued there is nothing to bring that country into conflict with England; but when it becomes a pursuit of what I may call Bonapartist ideas, and when France, forgetting her true interests, suffers her Government to remain in the hands of men who pursue a tradition of the past with a view to aggrandise a particular family, then I say that necessarily and inevitably the two countries must be rent asunder, as it is impossible that England should follow France in such a course. I have now only to thank the house for its attention, and to express a hope that the an swer of the noble lord will be satisfactory. (Hear.) PERSIA. Mr. H. SEYMOUR, in rising to ask a question relative to Persia, took the opportunity to observe that an answer of the noble lord (Palmerston) to a question he had asked re specting the Pasha of Egypt appeared to be inconsistent with one of the articles of the treaty of 1840. By that ar ticle the Pashalic of Egypt was placed upon the same foot ing as all other pashalics with respect to revenue, but no other governor of a Turkish province had the power of bor rowing upon the Customs' revenue. The noble lord said the Pasha of Egypt had not exceeded his powers in raising a loan; but if that doctrine were correct there could be no reason why one pasha should not mortgage the revenues for 20 years to come. The interests of the pashas would natu rally induce them to raise money, because the succession was not to the oldest son, but to the oldest male of the family, and consequently each pasha made a purse for his family. At present the power of the Pasha of Egypt was absolute, and exceeded even that of the Sultan in Constan tinople. It would be very desirable that the treaty should be revised in these portions which related to the succession and the powers of the pashas. With respect to Syria, he would only express a hope that the G overnment would take a de cided course, for he anticipated that there would be a rising from Bagdad to Egypt if exemplary punishment were not dealt out to the offenders in the late events. A remarkable latter appeared afew days since, which showed that in Egypt Christians and Europeans were exposed to the insults of the Turkish soldiers, and the same feeling pervaded all the coma tries in that part of the world. He was assured that the bom bardment of Jeddah, so much condemned by some phi lanthropists at home, had prevented a rising at Damascus and other places. He wished to call the attention of the house to our relations with Persia—a subject of considerable importance at the present time. Sir H. Rawlinson was sent out under the East India Company with a sufficient staff, but when he arrived he found himself transferred to the rule of the Fo reign-office, and his kaff was taken away. Unfortunately, there was no one attached to the Persian embassy who was acquainted with the local affairs of that country, while persons who were well acquainted with them, and who had been educated with a view to such knowledge at the public expense, we'e wasting their time at home in compulsory idleness. Mr. Alison had to encounter in Persia the oppo sition of the Russian Minister—a man who had been 22 years in that country, had a thorough knowledge of its affairs, was extremely agreeable and insinuating in his manners, but at the same time very firm. He had also immense means at his disposal, and was able to give pre sents, which our embassy was not allowed to bestow. It would be seen therefore that the British embassy at Tehe ran laboured under great disadvantages. At the present time there were important questions to be settled with Rus sia. The Russian Government was anxious to possess the provinces to the south of the Caspian, where Persia main tained a military establishment for the purpose of chastising the turbulence of the Turcomans, who were Persian subjects. He had learnt from private information that the Russian Government proposed to withdraw their embassy from Teheran unless Persia consented to give up her control of these Turcomaus. (Hear.) Every encroachment of Russia in that direction affected the interests of England in the East, and unless care was taken to check these encroach ments we should rue our negligence, perhaps, when it was too late. He trusted that the noble lord would give the house the means, by the production of papers or otherwise, of obtaining authentic and official information on these sub jects. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. BOWYER agreed in what had been said as to the annexation of Savoy and Nice being an outrage on the part of France and a disgrace to the illustrious House of Savoy; but he wished to ask whether the annexation of Tuscany, Parma, and the other duchies, and especially of a portion of the dominions of the Holy See, was not equally an outrage On the public law of Europe, It was the fashion, to speak in terms of admiration of Gen. Garibaldi—(hear)—but he wished to know whether the proceedings of Garibaldi were not wholly subversive of the public law of Europe. Gari baldi sailed from Genoa, with the full knowledge of the Sardinian Government, at the head of a body of filibusters, consisting of refugee Poles and Hungarians and Sardinians, many of them very desperate characters, and made an at tack en Sicily. He had no authority from any Sovereign to do so; he was not in any sense a lawful belligerent, and by the law of nations, therefore, was a pirate. Indeed, a more daring act of piracy never was committed than that which he committed on the dominions of the King of Na ples. He was successful in his attack on Sicily, and it was now stated that he meant to attack Naples in the same way. Would not this be also an outrage on the public law of Europe ? He was convinced from what he knew of Italy that nothing could be more offensive to the Neapolitans than an attack from Sicily, as there was no friendly feeling between the Sicilians and Neapolitans. If the Neapolitans had grievances to complain of against their King—and he believed these were much exaggerated—let them be re dressed by themselves. The King of Naples had granted a constitution to his subjects. (A laugh.) Gentlemen might laugh, but there was nothing to show,that the Neapolitans were dissatisfied with that constitution. He believed it would not work—(hear)—because what he called a consti tution was not a thing in accordance with the genius of the people, or the history and requirements of the country. Nobody loved constitutional government more than he did in this country, but it did not follow that, because constitu tional government was suited to this country, it should be set up everywhere else. Garibaldi was going, it was said, to Naples to destroy the constitution, and dethrone the King of Naples, and annex the country to that of Sardinia. Would not that be a gross violation of the public law of Europe ? But, not stoppin g here, they were told that Garibaldi, after succeeding at Naples, was to attack the dominions of the Holy See. (Hear, hear.) Would that be in accordance with the public law of Europe ? What cause could be given for so gross an outrage, so unprincipled a pro ceeding? He asked whether, with the knowledge of such an intention on the part of Garibaldi, General Lamoriciere would not be justified in marching against him before he left Naples. General Lamoriciere was not bound to wait for him in these circumstances. It was said Garibaldi was going to attack Venetia also. (Hear, hear.) If so, Austria would be justified in attacking him before he reached Venetia. They were told that Austria did not intend to interfere with Garibaldi till Venetia was attacked, but that was only a matter of prudence. He was not present at a meeting of the friends of the noble lord at the head of the Government, but he understood that the noble viscount ap - plauded the success of the foreign policy of his Government, and said it was one entitled to the confidence of Parliament and the country. (Hear, hear.) The noble viscount gave as one proof of this that he was informed General Garibaldi had landed on the territory of the King of Naples. Now, the King of Naples had a Minister at this' Court and was at peace with this country. Was ever such a thing done as for the head of the Government to express his approbation of an act of piracy —(no, no)—committed against a Sovereign with whom we were at peace ? With regard to the sympathy of her Majesty's Government fi..r General Garibaldi there could be no doubt of it, and whatever moral support that it was in their power to give had been given to that expe dition. Hon. members opposite invoked the public law of Europe when it suited them, but when it was against them they did not care a halfpenny for it and trampled it under foot. Suppose, for example, Garibaldi had turned his eyes upon the lonian Islands. There was an oppressed nation ality that had demanded to be united to Greece. Her Majesty's Government put down the natives of the lonian Islands by force, and flogged, hanged, and shot them to any extent rather than admit their claim to say what Govern , they would belong to. Parliament was told that every • country was to decide for itself how it was to be governed. , Why, then, did the Government not convene an assembly in the lonian Islands to determine how they were to be • governed ? If Garibaldi went there the Government would say the public law of Europe was violated and that Gari baldi was a pirate, but when he went to Naples they applauded him. There was a man lately,in India very much like Garibaldi. He was a brave patriotic man, called Tantia Topee. (Oh, oh, and a laugh.) He kept the British army at bay and gave them a vast amount of trouble. He was, however, taken prisoner and brought to a court-martial on a charge of rebellion against British authority. The Go vernment of India hanged that man. He thought that an atrocious act. He knew it was said he was implicated in some outrages against the Europeans. (Hear.) But he was not charged on his trial with an, thing except treason and with having resisted the English Government. He died like a patriot. He had fought for his country. He wished to drive the British out of the country, and to preserve India for the Indians. If the King of Naples took General Garibaldi he would have as good a right to hang him as the Govern ment of India had t o h ang T am il s T opee. It was pretended that the Italian duchies had declared for annexation with Sardinia because they were badly governed. But it was ac knowledged that Parma was ruled by a wise and excellent Princess, who governed her subjects well and justly. Parma was treated like the rest, and therefore the badness of these Governments were proved to be not the cause of the annexa tion. The Government of Tuscany was a mild Government. (Oh, oh.) It had, however, been overturned by a conspi racy, headed by the Sardinian Minister accredited to that very Court. (Hear.) The Minister of Sardinia at Rome had also conspired against the Papal Government, and it was by intrigues that the overthrow of the power of the Holy See was attempted in the Legations. Hon. members ought to blush—(a laugh) —to talk of the public law of Europe under such circumstances. He believed that the re sult of these annexations would be the ruin of that Italian freedom of which hon. members were so fond. He, too, wished to see Italy great, glorious, and prosperous, but he believed that would be best attained by a federal system, which would unite the whole country without injuring the rights of its Sovereigns. That object would, however, cer tainly not be attained by the utter destruction of the prin ciples on which the peace of Europe rested and upon which society itself was founded. Ho believed that if the King of Sardinia should succeed in all his schemes of annexation his monarchy would fall to pieces in our own time like a house of cards. He had before said that the annexations going on would be the ruin of the House of Savoy, and he was confirmed in this belief. At the present moment he knew, upon good authority, that the greatest discontent prevailed in the newly-annexed provinces of Sardinia. In Tuscany the people had to be kept down by the Pied montese troops, and, as for liberty, there was none. The people dared not read written communications, far less speak what they thought. The overthrow of the legiti mate Sovereign was brought about by means of the coercion exercised by the secret societies who now held undisputed sway in Italy. He thought it very probable that Gene ral Garibaldi would succeed in overthrowing the King of Naples—(cheers) —because the Neapolitans were not a warlike people and could not cope with the band of ferocious filibusters whom Garibaldi commanded. (A laugh.) Sup pose so much accomplished, what would follow ? Garibaldi was pledged to attack the Roman States, but there he would meet the French army. Possibly he would have to aban don that part of his programme ; but he could hardly avoid fulfilling his pledge to attack Venetia. In that enterprise Sardinia would be obliged to join him. The people had been so excited by the dream of nationality —a dream for which torrents of blood had been shed, and which had been a source of misery rather than happiness to the mass of the people—that dream had been so much encouraged by speeches made by the noble viscount and his colleagues-- (hear, hear)—that the people were mad on the subject, and Sardinia would be compelled to go against Austria. Whether France would support Sardinia in that attack was a matter of speculation. As the Emperor of France had got what he wanted, and as if France supported Sardinia Germany would support Austria, he thought it likely France would not interfere. Ho very much doubted whether the Italians by themselves would be able to resist the powerful arms of Austria ; and if they were defeated, then that would happen which had been hinted at by the Constitutionnel, and Italy would be overrun by Austria from Turin to the South Neapolitan States. But should France be tempted to back Sardinia then there would be a general European war, in which Great Britain would, in all probability, be involved. For that result, if it arrived, we should have ourselves to thank. It was the natural consequence of a policy which set at nought all principles of right and wrong and acknowledged that the end justified the means. A universal public profligacy seemed prevalent just now. No regard was paid to treaties or international law. He hoped hon. gentlemen would be warned in time, and forbear to give any further encouragement to the revolutionists in Italy. Garibaldi, it was well known, had always been a Republican, and only took up the King of Sardinia now because he was a tool fit for his purposes. Garibaldi would probably be seen before long at the head of a Red Repub lican movement that would throw everything into confusion and necessitate the interference of the Powers. The violent anarchy which the success of the revolutionary cause would produce would be inevitably succeeded by a despotism sterner and more powerful than that against which hon, members exclaimed. Viscount PALMERSTON—I am not going to follow the hon. gentleman into a discussion of past events in Italy during the year which has just elapsed ; neither am I going to enter into any speculations as to the future. The lion. gentleman asked, in the beginning of his speech, sovaral questions as to the interpretation of international law, but as he was kind enough to give an answer to them himself „ . it is unnecessary that I should go into them. (A laugh.) I wish to set him right in regard to a misconception under which he labours as t o w h at was said by me at a meeting which I am sorry h e did not honour wit h hi s atte n d ance. (A laugh.) At th a t meet i ng I spoke i n t er ms of the h ig h est praise of th e manner i n which my no bl e friend the meta_ ber for the Cit y h a d conducte d t h e foreign policy of th e country. (He ar , h ear .) Th a t ex pression of mine seemed to find an answer in the breasts of almost all who were present on that occasion. (Hear, hear.) But I did not mention as a proof and result of that policy the landing of Gen. Gari baldi in Italy. (Hear, hear.) I stated that as a single fa' t, remarking that the landing would in all probability Lring about events of grave importance, and that it was essential to enable the Government to deal With those events, when they might happen, that they should possess the good ' will and confidence of those who had hitherto honoured them with support. (Hear, hear.) I certainly did not claim any ohm iu the expedition of Geu, Garib a ldi, b u t s i mp l y re. ferred to it as an evtnt pregnant with the most serious con - sequences, which it would require all the judgment and care of the Government to deal with. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the course which the hon. and learned gentleman indi cated as about to be followed by Gen. Garibaldi, I have to remind him that the King of Naples has an army of 60,000 or 70,000 men, and a fleet very large in comparison withany which Gen. Garibaldi is able to scrape together. Therefore, if Gen. Garibaldi should achieve the success which the hon. and learned gentleman anticipates, it must not be by the force which he brings to bear against the Government of Naples, but by the assistance of the people of the country. (Hear, hear.) It is quite impossible that the force with which General Garibaldi undertakes the expedition can obtain success unless he is joined by the inha bitants. Whether he will receive that support or not I leave it to the future to disclose. As to the ques tion of my hon. friend the member for Perth, it is well known that the Conferences referred to were sought by the Swiss Confederation, and were, more or less, agreed to by all the other Powers. At the same time various matters have arisen to delay the meeting of the Congress, and at present no period is fixed for its assembling. The Treaty of Turin has not received formal acknowledgment by any of the Powers—certainly not by this country, and cannot, at present, be said to form part of the public law of Europe. The cession of Savoy to France was a very peculiar transac tion—(hear, hear).-and does not come within the ordinary category of cession of territory made by one sovereign to another. The territory of Savoy was held by the King of Sardinia subject to very peculiar conditions attached to it by the Treaty of Vienna, to which all the eight Powers of Europe were parties. It was not competent for the King c•f Sardinia to cede, nor, as I hold, for France to accept that territory—(hear, hear)—thus emancipating it from the con ditions under which it stood as part of the dominions of Sar dinia. (Hear, hear.) The conditions had mainly for their object the preservation of the neutrality and independence of Switzerland, and it is clear that Savoy, in the hands of France, stands in a very different position in regard to the maintenance of the neutrality of Switzerland than when in the hands of Sardinia. (Hear, hear.) France being a much stronger Power and differently situated in many re spects, there is greater danger to Switzerland from it than from Sardinia. The cession was objectionable not only on that account, but on account of the manner in which it was made. All the circumstances connected with it from first to last, the denials at one time and avowals at another, the promises made, as reported, by the President of Swit zerland in his message of March, the promises made in January and February by the French Government to the Minister of Switzerland, that whenever the cession should be completed Faucigny and Chablais should be transferred to Switzerland—a promise afterwards retracted, and appa rently never intended to be performed—(hear) —all these circumstances must produce a most painful impression in the minds of every man in regard to all the parties who were concerned in the transaction. (General cheering.) It had certainly produced a painful impression on the minds of all the other States of Europe —an impression showing that they considered that, for the future, forethought and precaution must be the duty of every Power. (Cheers.) I should hope that the result will be that France will con sider she is bound by a regard to her honour and good faith , to close these transactions in a manner consistent with the due and complete security and independence of Switzerland. (Hear, hear.) It is quite true, as my hon. friend has stated, that the neutrality and independence of Switzerland are for the interests of all Europe. The Swiss are deserving the sympathy and goodwill of all the Powers, from the manly character and spirited independence which they have always displayed—ineffensive to their neighbours, and ready to defend themselves against all corners. (Hear:) But it was not simply and solely from a regard to the Swiss that the arrangement was made. It was from a wise and well considered regard for the general interests of Europe, and the maintenance, as far as possible, of the peace of Europe. (Cheers.) I cannot but hope that the FrenCh Government will, on account of the engagements to which France was a party, on account of the promises which she held out to Switzerland, and for the sake of the general and future in terests of Europe, make some arrangement which will satisfy the just expectations and guarantee the security of the Swiss Confederation. (Hear.) It is not necessary that I should enter further into that branch of the question. But my hon. friend the member for Bridgewater went at some length not only into that Swiss question, but also into those other questions of great importance—the trans actions in Syria and Italy. It is deeply to be lamented that these unfortunate events should have taken place in Syria. My hon. friend stated facts which have come to his know ledge with regard to whence, and through wheal, and from what causes these disturbances originated. Ido not feel it necessary to follow him in those investigations. The duty of her Majesty's Government is rather to endeavour to pre vent the recurrence of these evils than to scrutinise mi nutely the sources out of which they arose. (Cheers.) We are acting in concert with France, Austria, Russia, and Prussia, and I hope that steps will be taken which will be effectual for the purpose we have in view. We believe that the Turkish Government is sincerely desirous of taking every step necessary to punish the guilty, to make an example of the offenders, and to lay the foundation for future tranquillity between those hostile races, and I cannot but believe that if those measures are properly taken, they will accomplish the purpose for which they are intended. (Hear, hear.) Commissioners of whom Lord Dufferin on our part is one, will go to Syria, collect information, and suggest such measures as they think best calculated for the future peace and security of the country. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Poole went a little further east—to Persia. By the bye, he stopped in Egypt on the way, and referred to an answer which I gave last evening as to the power of the Pasha to raise a loan pledged on the Customs duties of Egypt. The arrangement made in 1840 and 1841 was this—that the Pasha should pay a given amount of tribute to the Sultan, but that the remain ing part of the revenue of Egypt should be at his disposal, to be employed by him as he pleased. In one sense the Pasha is limited in his power to mortgage, because the tri bute to the Sultan is a prior claim to any engagement which he may make with regard to any part of the revenue. But supposing that the tribute is faithfully and fully paid, then I apprehend the remaining part is for him to spend as he pleases, or to mortgage for the interest of a loan. With regard to the tribute itself, it is well known that it was pledged by the Turkish Government as security for a loan which Turkey raised ; but I believe the pledge does not go beyond that tribute. With regard to Persia, I can assure my hon. friend that we greatly regretted Sir H. Rawlinson would not continue in the mission at Teheran; but his re tirement was his own act, and in no degree arose from any wish or suggestion of her Majesty's Government. He was of all men the one who I should say was best qualified to perform successfully the duties of British Minister at that Court; and he succeeded in acquiring the goodwill of the Shah in a manner in which no other British Minister has been able to acquire it. It is, therefore, a great misfor tune that he should have felt it his duty to retire ; but his retirement, as far as is alleged in his communications to the Government, is founded on the circumstance that that mission is transferred from the Indian Government to the Foreign-office. We thought that, considering our relations with Persia are so mixed up with our relations with Russia, Turkey, and the other Powers of Europe, it was exceedingly inconvenient that communications from Persia should come through the India-office and not direct to the department which alone has cognizance of our rela tions with other Powers. (Hear.) With regard to the in terference of Russia there has always been a great desire to establish in Persia a superior influence to that of any other Power, and I believe that some communications, such as my hon. friend implies, _have passed between the two Go vernments with regard to the expedition of the Shah against the Turcoman territory. But I am bound to say that in our opinion the nature and extent of the expedition which the Shah was about to take was beyond what we thought was for his real interests. It is our opinion, and that of those by whom our judgment is guided, that the expedition proposed is beyond the range at which the Shah can use fully establish a permanent occupation, and that he will do much better to content himself with operations of a more limited character. (Hear) I may say that our relations with Persia are of a mos. satisfactory kind. The recollec tion of former differences has entirely been effaced. There is nothing now but the most cordial understanding, founded on the conviction on the part of the Shah that it is our wish and our policy that Persia should be independent and pros perous. (Cheers.) Mr. D . GRIFFITH thought the Government had been inactive for two months on the question of Savoy in the early part of the session, but acquitted them of any further de- inquency. An Hon. Member drew the Speaker's attention to the fact that there were not 40 members present. 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