The Sun. — London, England, 1858-04-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS.---(YESTERDAY.) their lordships met at ti o'clock, Lord REDUIDALS, deputy Speaker, presiding. Viscount Dungannon and Lord Faversham presented petitions against the admission of Jews to Parliament, .and Lord Talbot and Lord Berners presented. petitions against the abolition of church-rates. SALE OF POISONS. Lord CAMPBELL asked the noble earl at the head of her Majesty's Government whether it was the intention of her Majesty's Ministry to introduce a bill this session to regulate the sale of poisons ? Earl DERBY said the Secretary of State for the Home Department had put himself into communication •with the Pharmaceutical Society with a view to learn !..-..heir views on the subject. (Hear, bear.) The introduc -66n of a bill would very much depend upon the na vare of the answer to the communication which h a d mot yet been received. Oa Monday next he hoped to be in a position to give a definite answer to the questi,lll.- CUSTOMS BILL. Oa the motion of the Earl of DUB! the Customs Bill was r ,la, - 1 a second time. Their lordsthips then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDA Y .) The SPLINES took the chair at 4 o'clock. VATE BUSINESS. The fallowing p r .'eate bills w ere read a third time and rt passed :—Chester G.vo ; Knighton Railway ; Newpo (Salop) Markets, Towo-ball, &c. ; and Nottingham Gas. The Barnstaple New Water Works Bill was further considered and ordered for .a third reading. PAID COLONIAL AGENTS. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that on the late dis cushion, on the motion of the honeurable baronet for Taviatock (Sir J. Teelawney). he (Sir James Graham) stated that the late Sir Jacaes MatAintosh was a paid agent at the Canadian colonies. He ,had reason to be lieve that. statement was erroneous, land he expressed his r egret at having been led into the cuintake. (Hear.) INDIA. Colonel gY.S.ES gave notice of a motion relative to the n umber of letters and despatches forwarded by the East India Dir,VtolB to India during the years 1853 to 1857 inclusive. COM.MUNICATI9N DUB BETW LI EEN LONDON AND N. Mr. Sergeant DEASY asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether any deiloite arrangements had been made for securing to the pLiblic the benefit of improved communication between London and Dublin ; and, if not, whether there was any iunnediate prospect of Any such arrangement being concludedl Mr. HA.NIILTON said he had every reason to believe that a few days would not pass before the draft of a contract for improving the communication be tween the London and North • Vireotern Company, the Holyhead and Chester Railway, and the City of Dublin Company, would be ready. Large and powerful 'vessels for carrying it out were being constructed. THE CAGLIARI. Mr. HEADLAM asked the Chancellor of the Ex chequer whether he had as yet received the opinions of the law officers of the Crown on the subjsct of the Cagliari ; and if so, whether he could state to the house what course the Government intended to pursue ! The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, in the matter of the Cagliari there are two distinct ques tions involved. One is what I might call the national question, aad the other the international question. The first concerns the treatment of our two countrymen, Park and Watt ; and with respect to that part of the question, we have received the opinions of the law officers of the Crown, and they are unani mously of opinion that the detention of our countrymen, Park and Watt, was illegal— (loud cries of hear, hear) —and in consequence of that, and after giving them ourselves all that deliberation so serious a matter requires, we have ad dressed a dispatch to the Minister of the King of Naples, in which the Secretary of State for War has demanded compensation for the grisvanses that have been expe rienced by our fellow-countrymen, Park and Watt. (Cheers.) The international question, as the hon. and learned gentleman must be aware, is one quite distinct from the other, and that it is one in which Eng land has only an interest like other maritime nations. On that we have not yet received the opin ions of the law officers of the crown, and iri explanation of what might otherwise appsar unaccountable, fairly remind the house what I stated on a former occasion, that on Saturday important documents were received by her Majesty's Government bearing on the question, and which were submitted to the Attorney-General and his c )11eague3 ; but his time has been so completely ab. sorbed lately in conducting the state trial, that he wag unable to give the papers that consideration which they absolutely require. Mr. HEADLAM asked the Chancellor of the Exche quer if he would lay the documents referred to en the table of the house ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER declined now to comply with the request, but he would do so at the right time. (Hear.) THE PROCTORS OF THE PROBATE COURT. In reply to a question from Mr. HADFIELD, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that, according to the claims sent in, the Treasury had estimated the claims of the proctors for compensation, under the late act, at 250,000/. per annum for some years. (Cheers, and oh, oh.) NETLEY HOSPITAL. Mr. WEGUELIN asked the Secretary for War whether the Government bad appointed a committee to investigate the report mad• by the Barrack Hospital Ciruinissioners upon Netley Hospital ; and, if so, whether they were prepared to present to the house the report of this committee at the same time as they laid the report of the Barrack Commissioners upon the table of the house ? Mr. TITE asked if there were any objections to de posit the plans in the library of the house ! General PEEL said he intended to send down a board of medical of/leers to examine the locality and report thereon, and he had suspended the works. The plan should be deposited in the library. PARLIAMENTARY RE FORM. On the motion for adjournment till Monday Mr. DUNCOM.BE asked the noble lord the member for Tiverton if he would have any objection in the pre sent position of the question of parliamentary reform to lay upon the table of the house a copy of the bill for the amendment of the laws relating to the representa tion referred to in the speech from the Throne at the commencement of the present session. The hon. gentleman referred to the state of the represen tation and the reform that bad been promised. In refer ence to the India Bill, that of the late Government had been the reason of producing one from the present Government ; and if the noble lord introduced his bill, it would no doubt stimulate the present Govern ment to introlui• theirs ; but he despaired of their doing anything towards Parliamentary Reform, when the noble lord the member for London would no doubt oome forward and spread a feather bed before the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on which his bill might safely drop—(laughter),---in the shape of certain resolutions. (Renewed laughter.) Lord PALMERSTON said it was his intention to have introduced a party reform bill this session if he had been permitted. The late Government had two subjects of importance to deal with—via., the Government of India and Parliamentary reform, Her Majesty's late Government thought it advisable (how rightly he must leave it to the house to decide—Daughter) to de ♦ote their attention to the former, and introduce that bill first, and then to introduce the other. Circumstances however had " cut short"—(laughter)—their official ex istence and they had net the opportunity of Introducing it. His answer to tles question was that the subject had not so far advanced as to have been embodied in a bill, and even if the late Government bad thought it expedient to lay the draught of the bill on the table on constitutional grounds, he thought it not desirable to do so, because it was the duty of her Majesty's Government to introduce a bill of so much importance. From the quarter in which the late Go vernment had officially communicated with the public, via, through their cinstituents on the hustinge— (laughter)---it appeared that they had for some time before - taking office considered the question, and there was no doubt that, during the present session, her Majesty's Government would pre sent to the house the bill which the learned Attorney- Geeeral had so fully shadowed forth. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LOCKE KING expressed a hope, as there was DO chance of their having a Reform Bill this year, that the house would support his motion for the introduction of a bill relative to the county franchise and the qualia• cation of members. (Hear, bear.) CHINA. _ _ Mr. W. EWART inquired of the Chancellor of the Ez belittler, whether advantage would bl taken of the opplvtunity afforded by the negotations with the Chinese Government at Pekin, for opening a way fo► British and Indian commerce into Thibet and other countries under the Chinese dominion beyond the Ilimal/yah Mountains Th. CEIA.NCELLOR of the EXCEIEQUER said that at present this country bad no ❑egotiations unfor tanatAy with Pekin. What might happen he could not gay, but the house ►night rest satisfied that her Majesty's Government would give every assistance towards de- Valoping British government. THE PASSPORT SYSTENI. 1 11 r. MONCKTON MILNE'S' put a question to the Government r e specting th e e ff ec t o f th e N ew P a ssport Reguiations in Thlgium on British pu'oycts, and called the attention of the house to the inc , invetaiences of the prey eat system of the delivery cf passports by the F.-- reign Office. He expressed his regret that Bel ; ium had ske.opted the French system. r. SEYMOU R FIl ZGER.A.LD said that at pre sent, under certain circumstances, passports were granted by the Foreign -office without recommendations. Negotiations were g.,ing on with the French Govern ment relative. to altering the restrictions in the case of English workmen and on some other points. Agents would be appointed at all the English ports where the traffic demanded it, and the French Government would have agents at ports to which they would arrive. RECORD OF THE NATIONALITY OF PRI SONERS CHARGED AT THE METROPOLI TAN POLICE COURTS, Lord It. CECIL asked the Secretary for the Howe Department, whether there would ba any objec tion to giving directions that a record should be kept of the nations to which each prisoner charged at the Metropolitan Police Courts belonged. was induced to ask the question because he under• stood crime in this country committed by foreib ""Gers Aaa on the increase. Mr. HARDY, under Home Secretary, said he wog/ 1 inquire if such a record could be kept. THE GREEN PARK. Lord ELCHO put a question to the First Coot m is. eloaa: of 'Yorke, relative to the intended alteratiol Is in the Green Park, and called attention to the erect' ion of the Suspension-bridge in St. James'-park, and apt .ed the noble lord the member for Tiverton if he was g ratified with the "Catenarian Curve" he so eloquently de scribed when the motion for erecting a bridge over- - the lake was before the house ; and if the s.uspc:nsion bridge presented that line of beauty, and was of that light gossamer form his speech on the above occasion led the house to believe, and if its erection met va ith his approval. He considered the name of the arcb,:itect and the noble lord should be inscribed upon it. He contended the house ought to know what worl :s were to be carried out before they sanctioned them. H a referred to two circles marked out in the Green-park.. for, he believed, two shrubberies; b ut he considered shrubberies w ere an ' abomination in the London parks, and ought not to be sanctioned. They were anything but orna mental, and their removal from the parks was a great improvement. Above all places they should not be planted on one of the pleasantest sloping spots af grass in the suburbs of London. Lord J. MANNERS said the proposed shrubberies originated with the late President of the Board of Works, but he had no intention of carrying them out, or of planting shrubberies without the con gent of the house. (Hear, hear.) With respect to Finsbury Park he had little to do with it, but he had l communicated with the Metropolitan Board of Works. who bad replied that no measures had been taken for forming a park. The laying out of two roads were now occupying their attention, and until they were carried out the consideration of the formation of Finsbury Park must stand over. _ _ . — Sis B. HALL detailed the circumstances attending the extension of the St. James's-park bridge. It was sup. Fused that such a structure was opposed to the public will, but it was a remarkable fact that on the shortest winter day 37,360 persons had passed over that bridge. When it was determined by the committee to erect a bridge he called on the late Mr. Rendell, who was the architect. He (Sir 13, Hall) admitted that the bridge was not such a one as should be erected in a gentleman's park—(a laugh)—but considering the traffic over this public bridge it was necessary to make it subBtantial. (Hear, and a laugh.) He vindicated the formation of the shrubberies, so far as he had anything to do with them Mr. ELLICE, sen., deprecated the false taste which made our public parks so many landscape gardens. Sir H. VERNEY thought that as the park was useful to the whole of Londun generally, care should be taken to make it as clear as possible. THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA. Mr. COLLIER said he understood that the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed to move resolutions on tie subject of the Government of India on Monday week. It as most important that members should have an op portun:ry of considering these resolutions before the time for discuss:rig them arrived. He wished therefore to 9. , k the right hon. gentleman on what day the resolutions would be laid on Lite table of the house ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The resolutions will certainly be laid on the table on Monday next. I hope that they will be in the hands of members on that day. THE ABEONA. In answer to Mr. LINDSAY, General PEEL said that the Abeona sailed from Gravesend a short while since, with 750 men on board. After a few days email -pox broke out on board. Upon this occurring the ship put back, and the men who were attacked by the disease were landed, and the vessel then proceeded on her way, orders, however, being given for her to call at Kingstown, that she might there he inspected. After she again started on her voyage two more men were attacked by the small-pox. Beyond these two, however, the disease had not spread, and he had received a telegram from Ireland from the inspector general certifying that the troops on board this vessel were now in good health, and quite fit to proceed to sea. THE ARMY ESTIMATES. In answer to Mr. P. O'BRIEN, General PEEL said he did not propsse to make any general statement as to the army estimates that evening, but merely to take one vote for pay, /cc., for the men already voted. The motion for adjournment to Monday was then agreed to. THE WESTERN BANK OF SCOTLAND. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Mr. BRADY rose to call attention to the case of the Western Bank of Scotland—a case which, to his wonder, bad not yet been brought before the house. This bank was established twenty-five years ago with a capital of 1,500,000/. It soor, however, had at its command 5,000,000/. sterling, and, in addition, circulated its notes to the extent of 327,000/. From the commencement the bank went upon wrong principles, and its subsequent career was so managed that, sooner or later, its fall was certain to occur. He had received from a trustworthy source a document which enabled Shim to state some of the chief charges against the directors of this bank. In the first place, they omitted to call together the proprie tor, as they should have done, when a certain propor tion of their capital was lost. Not only did they fail in doing this, but they declared a dividend of 9i per cent., whereby many were induced to take shares in the bank when it was entirely insolvent. Besides this they car ried on bad debts in their books as available assets, and they did this even in cases where they bad theme s:vem been obliged to insure the lives of debtors is order to have a chance of saving anything. They had also sent t;00,000/. to America—against the terms of their char ter—to be applied in discounting bills. Every penny of this sum was now lost. In the same way they advanced money recklessly at home. A firm of Macdonald and Co.; who were known to be men possessed of little or ootning, had, in a few month?, oentrived to fail for 333,000/ , of which sum 200,0001. was due to the Western Bank. These were the two cases with white he should trouble the house. There were many more, but he thought these two sufficient for the illustration of the subject. It might be said that the manager had been placed in a position of such unlimited control against the veil of the directors, but that was in his (M r. Brady',) opinion, no excuse. He had entire control over the funds of the bank, and next to him the directors were respon sible for his actions. Ho trusted that these parties would be brought before the bar of public opinion to account f)r the deAsuetion they had brought on hundreds of fa milies. He had some time before asked whether it was the intention of Government to take any steps in the matter, when the learned lord opposite informed them he had not before him any evidence upon which he could proceed. Since then he (Mr. Brady) had been informed that at the time the learned lord was giving his answer he was actually the legal adviser of the directors of the Western Bank, (Hear, hear.) He did not mean to in sinuate that the learned lord could in the slightest de gree hare been influenced by such a circumstance ; in deed, he did not know of his own knowledge if it were true ; but, it the learned lord was the legal advi-er of the directors, he certainly was not in a position to give the answer he (Mr. Brady) had quoted. (Hear, hear.) He trusted they sho u ld h ear f ro m the learned lord that, if any foundation for criminal proceediugs could be ob tained, they would without delay be taken by the Go vernment. In conclusion, he begged to state that in bringing this subject forward he had been actuated solely by public motives, and that he left it with the failest confidence in the hands of the Government. The LORD-ADVOCATE said he could assure the house that although rising immediat ly after the hon. member for Leitrim, he had no intention of answering the speech of that hon. member. He (the Lord-Advo cate) was not there for the purpose of defending the principle upon which the Western Bask of Scotland had been established, or the conduct of the directors of that institution. Neither was he there to offer any opinion as to the personal culpability of the directors. On that subject he bad given no opinion : but he was glad of the opportunity of removing an erroneous im pression that prevailed in certain quarters out of doors, and which seemed to influence some hon. members with in. With regard to himself personally, the charge alluded to by the hon. member for Leitrim seemed hardly to require even a passing observation ; but he might mention that at the time the bank stopped payment and was winding up, be was in his professional capacity fre quently consulted by the directors, the shareholders, the liquidators, the depositors, and the creditors of that in stitution. (Hear, hear.) All parties, in short, had con sulted him in turn, but the matter to which he wished then to refer concerne 1 his office as public pros eCnr in Scotland. The hon. member f )r Leitrim had on xprevioue occasion asked him (the L)rd-Advocate) whether criminal proceedings would beinst'tuted,—hisanswer in substance was, that he bad not before him any information that would justify a prosecution. He begged now to repeat that statement, and to add that such was his position down to the present moment. It did appear strange to him that the parties who had given the hon. member the information which justifieei him in using such .stron g language as that he had indulged in, s h ou ld not have thought tit to lay their information before the public authorities. It seemed that a great misapprehension exited as to the nature of the office which he had the honour to hold. A public prosecutor was not a minister of police. It was not any part of the business of a public prosecutor to hunt out crime. On the contrary, he bed always understood that the true theory of the Lord Ad vocate's function was that that officer should never pro secute except on the complaint of an injur e d party, with certain very important exceptions A was true, but as a general rule a prosecution should not be set on foot ex cept by the complaint of the injured party. A n d t h e rule was applicable in the case of commercial frauds. The whole of the disclosures in the case of the Royal British' Bank were made in the Bankruptcy Court, an d came , under the notice of the Attorney-General in that way, and he had ne alternative but to proceed against the directors. But in the case cf the Western Bank of Sen,leed there had been only one proceeding, and that Case of sequestration. t a nldn he e h w at 4 s c d ase i ;o8 Mr. ed Tto" take the nsanager, was ea4tu himself, Beside, r t e h h i e s: in t g her t e ise h d ad irec b t e o e r n s , i m fl t ir t on e nn I,.yt all hole blame :og7oi b upon ity. tone had been to charge th e directors with very cu p. f shareholders, a nd at all of theatbhlee: t neeligetice cif duty in not controlling the he m m an a a l g t e h r e , p b r ut there was nothing sevgested at a n y of duct on of a criminal prosecution. As early a last there was a committee meeting of th e bank at as s Decemb Gler gow fur the purpose of appointing a committee of in res tigation. Th a t comm itt e e reported to a subseq uent meeting. It v a a very angry and excited meeting, but no criminal charge was made against the directors. Tao committee, in their report, stated that they were of °Pi' ni m that during the whole of Mr. Taylor's career, and 1 - during the career of Mr. Smith, his predecessor, the directors of the bank were very much to blame in I neglecting the duties of their trust, and that they ap peared, without sufficient inquiry or examination, to SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, APRIL - l7, 1858, have allowed the manager to act without control. The committee acquitted theme gentlereenof any moral blame, judgment, and considered that their errors were errors of and not of intention. While such was the opinion of the shareholders, what encouragement had the public prose cutor to proceed ? But that time had gone, and many of these shareholders might entertain different views now ; but up to the present time no shareholder, or de positor, or party interested in any way, had complained to him. They had done what was more becoming their position—they had organised themselves into an associa tion for the purpose of themselves conducting a searching and complete investigation into the matter. There was an association formed in Glaqgow, and he had received a letter from the chairman—not in answer to anything he bad written, but a perfectly volunteer communication— stating that arrangements were complete for the com mencement of the inquiry, that funds had been sub scribed to conduct it, and that an accountant had been appointed who would commence his inquiry on the 19th inst. That gentleman added that none of those gentle men knew of anything which would, justify a criminal prosect.tion ; bat that if they heard of anything they would put him (the Lord Advocate) in possession of the facts. It was evident that those gentlemen knew their affairs better than their representative in that house. (Hear, hear.) With that statement, he left the matter iu the hands of the house. Mr. E. ELLICE contended that farther proceedings should take place, either in the form of a prosecution, or of a bill for preventing such disasters in future. Thou sands of poor pe rsons had been induced to place their money in the bank owing to the supposed respectability of the directors; the ruin and distress had been immense. It was imperatively necessary that the position of banks should receive greater publicity. Mr. BLACKBURN said that the depositors would lose nothing; their claims would ultimately be satisfied in full. Not one of the directors bad appropriated the money of the bank; they were all great losers by its failure. He did not know why this bank should be singled out among the many large houses which had failed during the crisis. Mr. J. D. FITZGERA.LD contended that there had been neglect so gross on the part of the directors that it amounted to criminality. He considered inquiry of some kind to be necessary. Mr. MONCRIEFF deprecated prosecutions under. taken in compliance with popular feeling, without any eommunieatiou of the facts to the proper authcrities. In the ease before them they should wait till the state of the bank was more fully investigated by the ordinary tri bunals. of my bon, and gallant friend and the hon gentleman opposite, quite ashamed to throw any difficulty in the way of carrying into effect the object for which this mo tion was introduced. (Hear, hear.) I shall therefore take upon myself the responsibility of looking to the fulfilment of the wishes of my hon. and gallant friend upon the subject of providing for the completion of a monument which is ao intimately associated with the glory and the reputation of this country. (Cheers.) CONTINUOUS SERVICE MEN. Sir C. NAPIER moved for a return of the number of continuous service men who had accepted their dis charge, and then crossed the quarter deck and entered for five years. Sir J. PAKINGTON suggested to the bon. and gal lant admiral that it would be desirable he should not press his motion at present, promising that he would take an early opportunity of communicating with the gallant admiral as to how far it was possible to comply with the terms of the motion. The motion was then withdrawn. DUMFRIES MILITIA. Mr. B. JOIINSTONE, in calling attention to this subject, took occasion to state that he had heard that 10,000 of the embodied militia were about to be disem bodied, and that he had consequently felt it his duty to wait upon the Secretary of State for war to represent to him the peculiar position in which the Dumfries regiment of militia was placed. He had also called upon the Under Secretary for War, and mentioned to him that the regiment in question had been ordered last Nov. from Scotland to Aldershot, where it was stationed at the present moment. He had added that agricultural labour ers were hired in Dumfriesshire only twice a-year, viz., in the months of Nov. and March, and that, as a conse quence, the men who composed the regiment had just missed the time when they could hope to be employed. The Seeretary for War had informed him that the prin ciple which was to be adopted in the case of the militia was to continue the enlistment of those regiments which had contributed the greatest number of volunteers to the line, and which were, moreover, in the highest state of efficiency. He (Mr. Johnstone) had stated in reply that his regiment required only 20 men to complete its quota, while in point of efficiency it was second to none in the service. He desired to impress upon the house the hard ship it was upon the men to send them back to Scotland at a time when it would be impossible for them to obtain employment, the only periods at which agricultural la bourers were hired in that country being March and Ni_vsmber. In order to show the:efficiency of the officers of the regiment, he might mention that one of the captains had taken a first-class certificate at Hythe. He thought tit, circumstances of the case were so peculiar as to justify him bringing them under the notice of the house, and hoped, therefore, he had stated sufficient grounds for the Government to reconsider this case. (Hear.) Gen. PEEL perLotly appreciated the kindly motives that induced the hon. gentleman to bring forward this subject, but he thought that when he beard the expla nation of the reasons for the step of which he com plained, the hon. gentleman would be convinced of its necessity. The circumstances under which the militia were called out were these :—ln consequence of the drain of troops from this country to India it was deter. mined to embody 25,000 militia. At that time the num ber of rank and file of the regular army in England was 45,998. When he came icto office he found on the let of April the number of embodied militia amounted to 29,915, and the rank and file of the regular army to 71,581, being an increase of 25,000 men. The only vote which had been taken on account of the militia was one of 100,0001. That sum wi IA only maintain 10,000 men for six months, and of course, with 30,000 it would only suffice for two months. Unless, therefore, an addi tional vote was taken, it became necessary to reduce the number of embodied militia regiments. The principle upon which the reduction was effected by his Royal Highness the Commander-ic-Chief was to dismiss first those regiments which bad not contributed their full quota of volunteers to the Line, and thus it was that the regiment in question had been selected for disem bodiment. Mr. F. SCOTT confirmed the statements of the hon. member for Canterbury as to the peculiar hardship of discharging the Dumfriesshire Regiment at this time. Had they been disembodied before the 25th of last month no objection would have been made. Toe house then went into Committee of Supply, Mr. FITZEOT in the chair. Mr. P. O'BRIEN protested making a question of public morality depend upon the pecuniary result of the affairs of the bank. Mr. BUCHANAN repeated that the directors of the Western Bank had not taken any part of the funds, and were depositors in the bank. He denied the charge of conspiracy made against the directors. They were men who bore the character of the highest honour and re spectability. Mr. ATIIERTON admitted that the directors had stuck by the bank, and had involved themselves and their relatives in the common ruin. But their declara tion of a dividend which they were not in a condition to pay was the declaration of a falsehood. He hoped the Lord Advocate would see reason to institute proceedings i❑ the matter. Mr. H. JOHNSTONE thought a searching investi gation necessary after the misery caused by the failure of the bank. Mr. COWAN thought that some remedy should be devi,ed against the recurrence of such disasters, especi ally in respect of the system of accommodation bills. Mr. DRUMMOND denounced the accommodation system, and inveigled against the conduct of the Duke of Argyll and other noble persons, who had passed a public resolution in its favour, After a few words from Mr. FINLAY and Sir L. COLE PROOKE, Sir M. S. STEWART defended the conduct of those noblemen who had passed a resolution in favour of the Scottish system of banking. After Mr. BARROW bad protested against the con tinuance of the debate, Mr. TURNER urged inquiry into th.:. conduct of the bank. The subject then dropped. THE NELSON MONUMENT IN TRAFALGAR SQUARE. Admiral WALCOT l', who had given notice of his intention to call attention to this subject, said that there were times when parsimony on the part of the Govern ment was a cause of national shame and reprehension. In the very heart of that great city—the central square through which its population and every visitor from the country and every foreigner had to pass—London had for years presented the humiliating spectacle of a me morial to our greatest naval hero left incomplete. It was unnecessary to remind the house that when he first went to sea the name of Nelson made our navy the pride and hope of this country. On it depended the very existence of this island and her colonies. With the com mand of the sea they stood or fell. While Europe saw her armies melt away before a general hitherto irresis tible, Nelson transferred one by one the successive fleets of our enemies to the harbours of Portsmouth and Ply mouth. At Copenhagen, as at the Nile, he obtained, in his own emphatic words, "not a victory but a con quest." Tile man who had subjugated a continent de clared that the fates decreed to France the empire of the land, but to England the sovereignty of the sea ; and Talleyrand assigned, as the limits of British supremacy, wherever a frigate could find water to float her. The crippled maimed body and indomitable spirit of a Nelson preserved these shores from the horrorsof invasion and by a uaartyt's death atTraf Algar laid open the road to Water loo. He spoke in no spirit of braggarty. He trusted that the sword was sheathed for ever in amity with those once our roost formidable enemies and now our firmest allies, and that the mingled blood shed before Seba.topol had consecrated a perpetual friendship be tween us. (Hear, hear.) But he was quite sure that that chivalric nation, which had never been wautiug in offer ing tributes of honour to its own fallen worthies, must observe with feelings which he did not cure to describe our lamentable display of indifference to a man of whom, if one of themselves, they would have considersd the noblest and most costly monument too unworthy. A very moderate grant would provide the accessories of the Nelson column. A foreign king had been a subscriber to its completion, but he hoped that we might be spared any such significant censures for the future. He trusted that the Government would not allow any further delay to occur before they redressed a signal wrong to the ines timable services rendered by the heroic, Nelson, and re moved a staading reproach to English gratitude. (Hear.) He therefore appealed to the house to support him in urging that duty upon their immediate consideration. (Hear, hear ) Mr. %V. WILLIAMS expressed his entire concurreno• in the observations which bad fallen from the hon. and gallant admiral who had just spoken. He had always looked upon it as a great disgrace to England that she should have allowed to remain so long uncompleted the monument to one whose achievements constituted her greatest glory. (Hear, hear.) &fore he sat down he wished to call the attention of the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the inconvenience which resulted from the present system of bringing for ward motions in going into committee of supply, and to suggest that arrangements might be entered into by which that inconvenience might be obviated, and a greater economy of the time of the house effected. Toe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER —It is not for me to attempt to restrict the privileges of the House of Commons. I have in the course of my experi ence in Parliament known many attempts to be made with that object, all of which proved to be fruitless ; and I feel convinced, sir, that the beet policy for any Government to adopt in reference to the subject is to trust to the good sense and good temper of the house in the conduct of the public business—(hear) —and not to attempt to influence its proceedings by effecting any change in those rules to which we have so long been accustomed, and which we all regard and venerate. I can, however, assure the hon. member who has just spoken that I shall be ready to take into consideration any suggestion which he might think proper to make with respect to this question, while my own impression certainly is, that the wisest plan for one holding the position which I have the honour to occupy is to place full reliance upon the kind assistance of the house, and not to endeavour to control its action by artificial regu lationo. (Hear.) In reply to the observations of nay hon. and gallant friend behind me, I can only say that I am not surprised he should have brought under our notice a subject upon which I rnyrelf have al ways felt strongly, and in which he- -a elistiaaui.hed ornament of that gal lant profession to which Nelson belonged— nay oatu ra'ly be supposed to take even a stili deeper interest. I entirely concur with nay hon. and gallant friend in the opinion that the name of Nelson is the glory of this country, as I think that his monument is its shame. (Cheers.) It is, however, a work, of difficulty to remedy all that has taken place io connection with that unfortu nate undertaking. For my own part, I cannot help look ing upon it as a great national mistake that monuments to the memory of Be itish worthies of the cla•-s to which Nelson belonged chunk! not be erected until after the lapse of so long a time after death has snatched them from among ue, and that even then the erection of those monuments should be intrusted in the bands of private persons. lam aware of no single instance in which in dividual efforts have been successful in the attainment of that object. (Hear.) Private subscriptions labour under the disadvantage of having to be dealt with in their application by too many persons, and their ma nagement furnishes but too often another instance of that system of double government which is no 1 niger in fashion. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) There ought, in my opinion, to exist upon the part of a nation a stronger sense of the recoguition due to the merits of its heroes than I regrat to think prevails in this country. (Hear.) A want of public spirit and of public feeling in the case of a man like Nelson ca .not indeed be laid to our charge, but we certainiy are open to the imputation of a want of taste and of an absence of the habit of coming forward at the right time to recognise as we ought to do the services of our illustrious men. individualt(rhla i s e r. ) To h veni n gwt brought pe ro: s ue u ghn e t: r ,mu n i ne i d n me e ry n o t hu orn. meritsnotice, t and cde i distinguishedaono gallant not friend p b r as e. sume even to attempt to do justice. I usay, however, remark of Nelson that he stands alone. The greatest men in every department of hutuan action find their equals. Our illustrious Wellington is compared with our famous Marlborough. Bat when we come to consider the achievements of Nelson we find that he has no rival. (Hear, bear.) It might be said of him, as Cardinal Je Metz said the o o f n y th m e an Marquis r o n f t lll i m o e n s t rwo who e o , r t e h m a i t nd h e e d one was of re a t i la ly e heroes of Plutarch. (Hear, hear.) I agree with my hon. and gallant friend that it is a disgrace to this country that his monument should not long since have been completed, and, although our finances are not in a very flourishing condition, I feel, after the observations SUP PLY. —EXCHEQUE R BILLS. A vote of 20,911,500/. to meet Exchequer-bi 11 &Din due was agreed to. • NAVY These estimat es were th E en STIMATES proceeded . with. Upon the vote of 70,4391. to defray the expenses of , the Admiralty-office, Sir C. NAPIER said he could not allow the oppor . Welty to pass without calling attention to the uosatis , factory constitution of the Admiralty-office at present. He thought the business would be better managed if there were three imteai of six lords. When the right hon. baronet the member for Carlisle was at the head cf the navy he t ffected very great changes. He established he offices of Surveyor of the Navy, Controller of the Victualling Departinen'e the heads of the medical de pertinent, the Accountant-General's Department, and the Storekeeper-General's Department. That established independent responsibility, and there could be no doubt of the efficiency of the officers who filled those offices, but over each department was placed a Lord of the Ad miralty. That system destroyed responsibility, and introduced all the evils of double government, which were now so much deprecated. Th e h on . an d ga ll an t admiral described the mode o f d o i ng b u si ne s s a t th e Admiralty as in the highest degree unsatisfactory, and such as greatly to impede the public service. What he would propose was that the navy should have the power o , governing itself ; that there should be a Mini ster of Marine, assisted by the vice and rear admirals of Great Britain ; that the Minister should take the advice of the admirals, but only act upon it if he saw fit to do . so. It was impossible, with the duties divided among six Lords of the Admiralty, that they cou'd be well die charges. They sat in separate leo its, and, as he could testify, often issued contradictory orders, for he had himself, when coin ear ding the Channel fleet, and also in the Baltic, received orders directly opposed to each other. If the right hon. gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty would order a commission, he would find that the entire system was one in which a change was • loudly demanded. There were Lords of the Admiralty present who would probably rise and say he was all in the wrong, but if a commission was appointed he be lieved there was not a clerk at the Admiralty who would not give evidence against them. He moved that the vote be reduced by 3,0001. Sir J. PAKINGTON said the constitution of the Board of Admiralty had been def en d ed on former occa sions with so much ability by th e r i ght hoe, gentleman the member for Carlisle, and the r i g h t gentleman the member that i t was u nnecessary for him, in offi ce, to make any who for kadbe Halifax, en onlya few weeks lengthened observatione and he regretted that the hen. and gallant officer had Oven no notice whatever of the proposal he meant to [sake, as till he rose he (Sir J. Pakington) had no idee of the nature of that proposal. The hon. and gallant admiral spoke of the double govern ment at the Admiralty, but he really was unable to see anything of the nature of a double goverment,. [Sir C. Napier--" Triers are doable offices."] There were double offices, no doubt, but that was a totally different thing. He entirely agree d in all that could b e said as to the great Inconvenience that arose from the division of the business of the Admiralty into two establishments ; but it was clearly impossible that any vote of the committee could correct the evil. it arose from the greet amount of business which the Admiralty had to dischatge. The Admiralty building was not large enough for the trans action of that business', and it was necessary teat that three-fourths of the clerks and all the important branches except the Surveyor-General's department ehoald be located in Somerset house because there was not room enough at the Admiralty ttr their accommodation. The attention of Parliament had been drawn to the neces sity of constructing new Government offices, and when ever that was done he trusted that the whole of the Ad. miralty establishment would be brought under one roe. His experience, although short, enabled him to agree with the gallant admiral in saying that it was impossible to speak too highly of the ability of the gentlemen at the head of the civil departments of the Ad mira!ty. Toe business of the Admiralty, however, was of a pe cu l' ar c h ara cter. Prof ess i onal and civil duties were mixed up together, and the public service was greatly promoted by naval officers of experience and ability acting as junior Lords of the Admiralty. The gailant admiral proposed that the First Lord should be assisted by a naval council, composed of the ViceeArl reiral and the Rear-Admiral of England. He would, therefore, se far narrow the board as to substitute two lords for the present five junior lords. He was not pre pared to senction that proposal. Sr fax as his short ex perience enabled him to judge, the advice, counsel, and experience of four professional gent l emen wa s not only First of great advantage to the benefit to the public. He could not assent to the motion of the gallant admiral, and he trusted that he would not press it to a division. The amendment Was thou negatived, and the vote agreed to. On the vote of 118,5921. for Coastguard service and Royal Naval Coast Volunteers. Sir C. NAPIER sa i d that, having had the oppo rtunity given to him by Commodore Eden of inspecting the Coast guard, he thou g ht that the present condition of that body was highly sati s f ac t ory. The principle of a naval m ilitia as embodied in th e R oyal Naval Coast Volunteers was a sag' gesti .n of his own, Tgide so lon ago al 1819 , an d repeated by him half-a -d ozen times since. The plan had not yet boon Carried out far eneagit, for the term of 28 days was not sufficient for exorcising the men. He thoug ht that the g Coastguard obtained their pensions too easily, and that it cause great discontent among the would be better to call upon thin to serve a longer period 'At )resent afloat before they became entitled to a penal"' ' the privileges gives to the Coastguard were calculated to 20 yea, s afloat before they ,-- t a pension. The great object of the Admiralty should be to - hold out more encouragement to seamen to outer the Royal navy. Why should not the Ships were now four, five, and even sir mouths before they could be manuod • seamen, who had to serve kit to the sailor fft well as to the soldier 7 The Admiralty ought to have a dent of tell sail in the Channel all the sum- Government mer, and a Coasrguarcl blockship should go out and cruise give both a bounty and a with the fleet. Admiral WALCOTT recommended that a training brig should be attached to each Coastguard ship. Sir J. PAKINGTON would rewind his lion. and gallant friend that uuder the regulations of his predecessor at the Admiralty ore or two ,gunboats were attached to each of the Coastguard .hips, lie felt the free of what the gallant Al. miral (Na'Ail') had said upon the danger that the Coastguaid men, however good an d va l ua bl e in the first instance, wou'd become less effi c i en t as they their seagoing experience. Be re mained on shore, unless son steps were taken to keep up would not lose si g ht o f th i s su bj ec t . Admiral WALCOTT s a id th a t gunboats not being squaw, rigged were ledge of the co st vo l unteers. Th e i r o nly use was to prevent perfectly use l ess f or k e eping up the naval know , a disposition to sea-sickness, (A laugh.) Sir C. WOOD said that when they wanted to increase the number of coastguards it was necessary 83 an inducement to mince the number of years' service, but having filint up the numbers it was no longer necessary to spread their net so been kind enough to inform the house that certain alterations widely. _ _ _ of which he did not approve were made in 1850 ; but, fail- The vote was agreed to, and also a vote of 30,615/. for the ing in that courtesy which was usually shown by one official scientific branch, man to another, he had not given the slightest notice of his Upon a vote of 81,631/, for her Majesty's establishments at intention to make that statement to anybody who was con home, I nected with the Admiralty at that time. He did not know Col. BOLDERO said he wished to put some questions to whether the right hon. baronet had obtained his information the late First Lord of the Admiralty. In consequence of his from Mr. Bromley, but that gentleman was not at the Admi being chairman of the committee on contracts which sat last ratty when the alteration in question was made; and although year, a letter had come to him, dated the 4th of April, 1857 , the change itself m i g ht appear wrong to the right hon. hart., in these terms : who had been only a short time in office, the committee " My dear Sir,—After all the assurances which we have re- , should know that it was effected by a most intelligent officer ceived that the Government never give out important orders s who was connected with the Admiralty in 1850. For his own but by contract, and always accept the lowest tender for S part he was still of opinion that the Surveyor of the Navy was stores, you will be surprised to hear that a very large private better able to fram e an es ti mate than the aecountaut-Gene order for prepared meats, upwards of half a million pounds' ral, who merely kept the accounts ; and at all events, when weight, have been given to Messrs. So-and-So for the service the right hon. baronet next travelled out of his way to in China, without any public notice of the requirement, and 1 attack the conduct of his predecessor in 1850, he would take consequently Messrs. So-and-So have had an unrestricted it as an act of jhstice if he would have the kindness to price. Besides this being an act of injustice to the trade, the ' give him seme previous notice of his intention, (Hear, hear.) public service will be injured by the inferiority of the articles He confessed that he could not understand the explanatory arising out of the haste and the unseasonable period at which statement of the right hon. baronet. The result of it, how they are preserved, particularly should meat form a portion, ever, was - the very uncomfortable one that the house would whereas, if the contract had been thrown open to competition, have to vote an additional sum of 30,0001. He might be per the Government would have found themselves amply provided mated to say that that discrepancy which the right hon. with meats in a state ready for immediate shipment, and baronet had pointed out was not so remarkable or uncommon which had been put up at a proper season in good order, On as he seemed to imagine. When an establishment was re. the contrary, an unfair preference has been given, to the duced, it did not follow that the reduction in the expense detriment of the public service. This is sad jobbing, and lam would be equal to the reduction in the number of the men. not at all surprised at the general expression of discontent Sir J. PAKINGTON could not too strongly express his re wheneverpublic contracts are mentioned, (Cries of "Name !") gret at finding that most unconsciously and unintentionally He would show the letter to the late and the present First he had given offence to the right hon. baronet opposite. The Lord of the Admiralty, and when he had done so he was sure best proof he could give of the innocence of his intention was they would both admit the respectability of the authority, that at the moment be spoke he did not recollect that the and that it was such as could not for a moment be supposed right hon. baronet was the First Lord of the Admiralty in to give information not founded on fact. The Admiralty inva- 1850. (A laugh.) If he had recollected that circumstance riably obtained their supplies by open tender, and they ac- be might have given him noti ce, b ut st il l he was not quite cepted the lowest tender, provided the contractor was proved certain that he would have done so, ivasmuch as he did not to be a man of substance. It was also the system of the East attack the right hon. baronet or anybody else. (Hear, hear.) India Company; but not of the army. They had three courses He simply stated a fact which the right hen. baronet had now by which to obtain supplies —by open tender, by an office-list, confirmed, that in 1850 a change was made with respect to or by purchasing on the spur of - the moment. The questions the management of these votes. The right hon. baronet arising out of this letter which he wished to ask were— thought the alteration a good one; but that it was bad the whether the supply referred to was delivered, and, if so, was committee had a practical proof in the errors which had crept it rceeived or rejected? What was the nominal value? In what into the estimates. (Hear, hear.) His own opinion was, part of the estimates the transaction appeared ? And why it that those errors would not have Gemmed if the votes had was not an open tender ? been brought under the supervision of the Accountant. Sir C. WOOD was afraid he could not answer the questions. General, (Hear, hear.) The right hon. baronet had stated The hon. and gallant officer was rather behind time. This that 30,000/. was wanted to cover a deficiency of last year. was an order given in April, 1857, in reference to preserved There was a deficiency to that amount to be covered, but he meats, which must have been sent out to China 12 months understood it was partly met by a surplus of 20,000/. in ago. Why, on earth, did not the hon. and gallant member another vote, and therefore no larger sum than 10,000/. put his question last year would have to be provided in some other way. (Hear.) Col. BOL DERO said the letter was not in his possession. Sir F. BARING said that such an arrangement might have Sir C. WOOD understood that it was received a year ago, been as that referred to by the right hon. gentleman, but he It was impossible to remember the details of a transaction did not recollect it. which occurred a year ago, or to answer questions on those Sir C. WOOD said that if there were a mistake it was details, especially when put without notice. (Hear.) With quite of the right hon. gentleman's own making. (Hear, and regard to the general statement the hon. and gallant member a laugh.) The right hon. gentleman said that he (Sir C. was entirely mistaken. It was not the invariable rule of the Wood) improperly reduced the estimate last year without Admiralty to obtain all the supplies which they might re- regard to the establishment to be maintained, and that tho quire by open contract and is invariably to take the lowest estimate was below the requisite amount to the extent of tender. The practice which he pursued, and which was pur. 22,000/. Now , he found that the whol e sum vo t e d f or th e sued 20 years ago, was, as a general rule, to take the lowest year 1855-56 —the last year of the war—was 864,0001. That tender, but not to do so if another offer were more advanta. sum included 250,000/. for additional wages for extra work to geeus for the public service. (Hear.) With regard to pre. be performed by task and job, and for the pay of hired men. served meats, it was one of those items on which they were Deducting 250,0001. from 864,0001., there remained 614,000/. bound to be most careful, It was quite imp css ibs e to be ear- as the sum required for the regular establishment For the tain that that the meats were properly preserved. A quantity next year the sum voted was 839,000/., which included had been sent to the Crimea, and some was bad before it got 225,000/. for extra work by task and job, and for the pay of there, and some was good when it c a me back. Of mea t p re - hired m en , T a king 225,000/, from 839,0001 ., th ere remained served by the same person som e ti mes a p o rtio n w ou ld f a il a t 614,000/. as th e s um due for wages for th e establishment. the end of three months, a n d a p or ti o n n o t fail at th e en d o f Now, th e sum vo ted last year was 637 , 000/ ., three years. It would be most unwise to throw a contract exceeded the sum shown on the two preceding esti. of that kind open to public competition, as the only security mates as due to the establishment by 23,0001. ; being was to go to a person whom they had reason to trust, and 1000 f, more than the sum which the right hon. gen. upon whom they could rely, (Hear, hear.) tleman said he (Sir C. Wood) had improperly dealt with, Mr. MILNES said that if the Admiralty went on the plan The right hon. gentleman had made something like a charge of taking the lowest tender for preserved meats, they would that the estimates had been misstated, but all that was get such trash as would be of no use whatever. The committee done was according to practice to put down the esti which sat some years ago on this subject came to the conclu- mates for the present year the vote of last year, and he did sion that it was not always possible to get an entirely good not understand that the right hon. gentleman denied that supply, even from the best contractors ; and they recom- the estimate for the present- year was adequate for the men mended that the Admiralty should not make a point of proposed to be employed. Therefore, the vote of last year accepting the lowest tend er , and that they should, as much was correctly stated, and the estimatefor the present year was as possible, adopt the principle of making their own preserved also correct in reference to the services to be performed. meats, (Hear, hear.) When an end was put to task-work 23,000/. Sir C. WOOD said that, to show the inequality of the sup- were provided for any occasional labour that might be re ply, he had lately tasted some of Mr. Goldner's preserved quired in the course of the year, and therefore the attack meat, the contractor of whose supplies so much complaint made by the right hon. gentleman was totally unjustifiable. had been made, which had been six years in store, and very (Hear, hear.) The fact was obvious. The right hon. gentle. good it was, man was determined to make a reduction from what had Sir F. BARING said, that so far from its being the rule at been proposed , and somehow or other took off 5 eOOO/., not tie Admiralty to accept the lowest tender, when the Arctic knowing why or wherefore, and in order to justify himself expedition was fitted out an order for the preserved meet was made an attack against him (Sir C. Wood). (" Hear," and given to s contractor, in whom confidence was felt, to furnish cries of "Oh I") the quantity required entirely without reference to price. Sir J. PAKINGTON could not too strongly express his Sir J. ELPHINSTONE thought that sufficient care was not regret at the tone in which the right hon. gentleman had taken as to the accuracy of the ehymicals used and the qua- spoken. (Hear, hear.) As a matter of business he could lity of the meat preserved. If the animals preserved were not not avoid mentioning the circumstance, and new the right of first-rate quality, the juices and the fat were lost, and when hon. gentleman charged him with making an utterly un it came to be eaten it was like so much ropeyarn. The atten- justifiable attack. He did not like these criminations and t.on of the Admiralty might very advantageously be turned recriminations, and had said that at first he thought it was to this matter, for if proper chymical antaseorbuties were ad. an accidental error ; but let hint tell the right hon. gentle. ministered to the sailors, many more Years' work might be man, since he held such language, that he had got the got out of them. right hon. gentleman's letters in his hand, though he did The vote was then agreed to, as was a vote of 17,279/. not wish to make use of them. He had got the old estimate to defray the expenses of her Majesty's esteblishment and the new estimate, and the changes—two changes—of the broad. figures in red ink. He had got. too, the right hon. gentle- On the vote of 486,921/. to defray the wages of artificers, man's letters directing those changes. (Hear, hear.) The &c., employed in her Majesty's establishments at home, fact was incontrovertible that the Government last year Sir J. PAKINGTON said that, before this vote was dis- prepared an estimate for 10,850 men, and at the last moment cussed, it was necessary for him to call attentioneto tin error , knocked off 23,000 e., without making a corresponding reduc in the estimates as prepared by the late Government. He tion in the establishment. The result was that the estimate did not mean to impute any blame to his predecessors, nor presented to the house gave an erroneous view of the expendi to those who had assisted him in drawing up the estimates; ture in last year. He had made no charge against the right but, of course, it was of the greatest importance that ac. hon. gentleman, supposing that the error arose from the pre. counts of this kind should be stated with accuracy. If the cipitatien with which the estimates were produced last year, items of expenditure printed in the estimate did not corres- and he regretted the tone adopted by the right hon. gentle pond with the real amounts to be defrayed, the result was man. (Hear, hear.) that both the members of the Government and the House of Sir C. WOOD was sorry if he had said anything to annoy Commons were misled. The committee would recollect that the right hon. gentleman, but he thought an attack had he objected on Monday night to adopt the number of men been made on him, He was speaking to a great disade intended to be proposed by the late Government for the dock- vantage, because he could not refer to official documents and yards—viz., 12,190, but proposed to take a vote of 50,000 1, to letters, which, under ordinary circumstances, would be in for hired labour to meet the existing pressure in the dock - his po s session. He proposed last year an establishment of yards, as that was half of the apparent difference between the 10,850 men, for which 614,000/. were taken as an adequate establishments of the last and the present years. The com- p tYmenb ; and he also "'proposed a sufficient sum, as he mittee would perceive by the estimates that the proposed believed, beyond that to provide for hired artificers and extra establishment of 12,190 men was estimated at 737,7511., labour, because it was not till the present year he proposed to while the smaller stablishment of 10,85) was estimated at put t h e whole on the establishment. I n t h e first estimate 637,751/., showing a difference of 10!,0001. It was on that Prepared last year a lower sum was con t emplated than was ground that he proposed on Monday to take a vote of 50,000/. ultimately taken, but he did not think it fair that an int e n. to carry on the works in the dockyards for the next six tion not carried into effect should be referred to. (Hear, months, On Tuesday he requested the Surveyor of the Navy hoar.) In his belief 614,000/. formed an adequate sum for to draw up a programme of those works on which that sum the wages of 10,850 men, though at one time he thought of could be most beneficially expended. The answer he received taking a larger sum. from that gentleman surprised him very much; for he sa'd, Sir F. SMITH referred to the amount of wages given in the " You have not got 50,00 e/ ; you have only got 20,000/ " He 4ockyard, and observed that the men were very much under asked for an explanation and received an answer to the effect paid. The expense of house rent in such places as Chatham, that 30,000/. of the 50,000/. that he bad obtained on Monday Portsmouth, and Davenport was very high, and it could not would be required to make up a deficiency which by acci. be expected that men in the receipt of 13s. 6d a-week, who dent occurred in the estimates for the Preceding year. He had to pay 3s. or 3s, Id. a-week for rent, could support their (Sir J. Pakington) believed that it was an accident. He ought wives and families adequately' upon the remaining 10s. a to have explained that 10,000/., or thereanouts, of this deft- week. The consequence was, that those•underpaid labourers, ciency arose from an increase in the wages paid to the la. although honest, could nob be zealous in the discharge of bourers in the dockyard last year. The remainder of the de- their duties, but they husbanded their energies during the ficiency arose from asking for less than the establiehment of day, in order that by working in the evenings they might last year required. That error he believed was owin g to the make some, addition to their miserable wages. He was in. haste with which the estimates were cut down list year. The formed that bricklayers in London earned from 3s. to 3s. 6d. original estimate was 22,000/. more than the estimateactually a-day, while the artisans in the dockyard boroughs (a laugh) submitted to Parliament. The vote for Deptford dockyard, only received 2s. 2d. a-day. Ho hoped the First Lord of the ' for instance, was 36,5171. , but the original estimate was Admiralty would direct his attention to this subject. 40,472/. ; for Woolwich dockyard the vote was 75,271/., but Mr. P. W. MARTIN observed that workmen in private the origial estimate was 79,7711, and so on. When the ship-building yards received ss. or ss. 6d. a-day, and he entire estimate for the dockyards was reduced last year, no thought it was a mistaken economy to give so low a rate corresponding reduction was made by the Government in the of wages to the artisans on the public establish number of men, He did not mention this matter to cast ments. It was the opinion of Mr. Stephenson, Sir S. blame upon any one. It was in fact a business affair, and the Peto, and ether competent authorities, that me n emp l oyed o must be corrected. (Hear , hear , ) Of course the officer in each labour as was p erfor med in the dockyards ought t o error f r tla r e Admiralty upon whom the blame might be supposed to have a good meal of meat daily, but many a time rest was the Accountan t-General, but he thought it duo to during his canvass—(laughter)—he mang f t o h u ei n r d din t n h e e r e w n e h rk re i ad ng : that able financier, who was deservedly mentioned in terms of men employed in the dockyard • great praise on Monday night, to state that by a most ob. cheese, and potatoes. He believed that the saving effected j ec ti ona bl e arrangement made in 1850 this particular vote by underpaying these labourers was fully count er b a l anced by also aid hcoymtphleai year ned that were ° p was taken out of his control and p laced in that of t he Sur • the inefficiency civil o ta whofaetrhyeianrwork . veyor of the Navy and the Board o f Admiralt y . Since that w hile those had time all that the Accountant-General had to d o was t o pl ace been relieved from the superannuation tax, the shipwrights, in the estimates the sum which they thought necessary to blac ksmiths, . and joiners, who received weekly wages were the dockyard establishments. He had hono power to gabled subjected to a superannuation tax of 20 per cent. allthe Mr. W. WILLI A MStheir proposals to the revision to which subjecte d' thought the present First Lord of the other amounts proposed to be inserted in the estimates, Admiralty and th e t wo right hon. gentlemen who formerly That system led to great inaccuracies and inconveniences-- held that office had o ccup i e d the time of the house very un for example, the committ ee would ob serve t hat i n th e es ti. n ecessar il y a b out a small amount of 30,000/., for he found mates for one year th ere was a vote f or 319 men in a Partici,. that some of these estimates were formed upon mere guesses, l ar department. and for 538 men in another ; but there was and under one head in a f ormer year 516 , 000 /. more than was no entry in either case of the amount of money required f or voted by the house according to the estimate had been ex their wages. He could not u nde rst and why the p ar ti cu l ar p en d e d , while under another head 300,0001. less than was vote in which the err or which he h ad first iskitioned had voted by the house had been disbursed.. Since the termina occurred should not be i nserted like any of th e other navy tion of the French war not less than 77,000,000/. had been Ho had now but one course expended upon our navy. What had become of it t It had votes in the estimates. Hen.. committee t ht, o grant 30,000/, more been spent, to a great extent, upon rubbish, and also in waste to take, viz., to ask the n than he asked for on Mon ay tg , in order that the defici. and jobbery. There was 1147 remedy for this state of 'things oncy might be covered . . (Hear.) except the adoption of the American system, under which an Sir C. WOOD admitted th at, to toa certain exte n t , h e un d er. account was given each session of the manner in which the s t o od the statement of the r ig ht hon. gentlem an , b u t h e cou ' d money voted during t h e preceding year had been expended. no t quite see the error of whi ch he complained. H e did not M r. W H I TE sa i d ' that, notwithstanding the placid, he might k no w on what authority the r ight hon. gentleman asserted almost say contemptuous, indifference with which the house that the late Government made reductions in the navy esti- received the representations made by hen. members who repro elates so carelessly as to ask for less money than was necessary limited ports at which there were dockyards, he could not to maintain the number of workmen agreed to by. the house refrain from saying a few words in support of the claim to con. on their proposition. The statement of the right hon gentle. sideration which had been advanced on the part of the mat was altogether unexpected, and he was therefore not pre. dockyard labourers. There was now no dockyard at pares with documents to answer it. The inadequacy of the esti. the borough for which he sat, but he had visited that mate tor the present year must depend upon whether 737,000/. of the neighbouring borough of Devonport, which had which the late Government proposed to vote, was too little for the advantage of being represented by the late Secretary an estaalishment of 12,190 men. To a certain extent it would of the Treasury. He would not say how gratified the elee have been impossible, even if the house had agreed to give tors of that borough were at having for their representative the who'e of the additional men requested by Government to a gentleman so nearly connected with the Treasury, or what obtain the entire number in the course of the first few months he had promised them ; but he was informed that, while one o f the year, and therefore a sum less than the whole amount class of artisans had had their wages advAn,, , d, anoth er cl a ss of the wages o f the whole nuakbe r of the men for the' whole who did not generally line in that locality had had theirs year eyelid net have been an inadequate estimate. He pre. diminished. Labourers who lived in Plymouth lad had their sumed, therefore, that the right hon, baronet intended to im. wages reduced 2e. per week, while the pay of ropeinakers, pngn not the estimate La* the past 12 months, but that for seilmakers, and some other classes bad been advanced 3s. the ensuing yeas, The statement of the sum voted last year Sir J. PAKINGTON denied that any feeling of contemp. was perfectly true. There might have been an excess of ex- tuous ind fference existed in that house towards the repro penditure for wags in the dockyards ; he did not know whe. sentatives of the working classes. Against'any such eon ther the fact was se or not ; but there could be no doubt that struction he strenuously protested. It was most essential for the sum voted was 637,000/. The late Government were, the general prosperity of the country that the working classes therefore, bound to put that sum in the estimates, and hence should be contented and happy ; and when any hon member he only question could be whether the sum proposed to be brought forward facts to show that they were treated with voted for the present year was adequate for the establishment injustice, it was the duty of that house to pay every atten. which could by possibility be obtained within the year. Ho tion to his statement. He wa quite prepared to admit tt e understood the right hoe, baronet to say that 737,000/. would possibility that the wages of labo ur mi g h t be unduly de. not pay the wages of 12,190 men. pressed by com otition. With regard to the wages paid in Sir J. PAKINGTON—I have not said anything of the the dockyards he could only say that he looked upon that kind, subject as one well worthy of attention—(hear)—and when Sir C. WOOD could not see, then, where the allegedbe- inac- he visited the dockyards, as ho prop osed to do i n t he course curacy lay. It could n e t b e i n the es imate of last • b of the summer, be should investigate the whole circum. , cause the late Government were bou n d t o state the y actual stances. (Hear, hear.) sum voted, and then they proposed to add 100,000/. more Mr. WILSON said, that so far as he was concerned he for the present year, in order to provide for as many a dd?- t endshould never feel it to be his duty to urge upon the Execu . men as the surveyor might think right , tlrtis raising the tive y increase of expenditure beyond that which in their estimate for wages to the amount of 737 that in •,000/ The object of judgment • increase was to get rid of the extra aments for hired made last year in the wages o f the workmen at Dave nport, 1 deourers Th e r i ght hon. baronet had ch P ar y ed him earth do- and referred to by the hon. member, he was not aware of th ose parting from the reco mmen d at i on of the com mittee aointee' ' cases, but his right hon. fr iend ( Sir Charles Woo d) would on the moti on o f Lo rd Seymour, Now, the recomm endation probably be able to explain them. The inference which of that committee was thatif au increase were necessary, the hon. member apparently sought to draw from the facts it should be done by an addition to the permanent este- be had mentioned ought to be pretty well rebutted by the blis anent and no t by the etnploymeut of extra men. Dining course which he (Mr. Wilson) had pursued last y ear i n the Russian war, finding hired labour was the most avail- opposing the repeal of the superannua.ion allowance abate able means of increasing the work done in the dock- meuts. That course was naturally in opposition to the yards, the late Government had recourse to it ; but he feelings of a largo number of his constituents. By the bill of repeated now w h a t h e state I then that a worse system could the noble lord (Naas) the wages o f our ioost highly paid not be adopt e d during peace. lie believed that 737,000/. public serv ants were increased imme diat e ly was an adequate sum for paying the establishment for the of 70,000/ , and ultimately to 100,000/. a year. This was in present year, and therefore, unless the, right hon. baronet the face of 'the fact that hundreds of men in Government told him that th ose p ersons w h o were answerable for the employ were drag ing out a miserable existence upon 13s. details had miscalculated the amoun t o f wa ges necessary for a-week, oat of which he knew they had to pay ss. or Os. per the payment of 12, in the e stimates,l9o men he he could not admit that there week for their lodgings in consequence of the high rent s i n was any inaccuracythe towns where they were compelled to reside. (Hear.) Sir J. PAKINGTON did not impugn the estimate for the This was the class of persons to whom he had referred last present year. What he stated was that the estimate for last year at year, as it appe are d i n th e papers b e f ore th e committee, was tas being most underpaid and as most demandi n g the ?ution of the (g overnment, and who, while th ose h e h a d men incorrect. The Government last year took 22,000/. off their tioned had received a lavish grant of 70,000/, a year, had net estim ,te, but made no reduction in the e-tablishmout, and their pay increased by one farthing. (Hear, hear.) In plead. the result was th a t instead of having 100,000/. for extra ing the cane of these men, the representatives of dockyard labour in the patient year he had only in round numbers towns were pleading the cause of son-voters against-those 70,0001. • who possessed the suffrage, and they could not therefore be Sir F. BARING paid that gentlemen in office possessed accused of interested motives. peculiar advantages when commenting upon the conduct of Sir J. ELPHINSTONE said, t` e Government possessed the their predecessors. The First _Lord of the Admiralty had larger part of the property in the town which he represented (Portsmouth), and the dockyard labourers there were in a wretched condition. It would be a disgrace to any country gentleman if his labourers were in no bet ter state. He was glad to hear that the First Lord of the Admiralty meant to take these circumstances into consideration. He did not be lieve that many labourers could be got to work in private dockyards for 13s, per week. Mr. J. EWART suggested that many of these complaints would be obviated if some of the work now done in the Go vernment dockyards were left to private enterprise, by which it would be done a great deal better and cheaper. Sir F. BARING said that a great deal of canvassing was now going on relative to the wages of the dockyard labourers, and expectations were excited on the part of these poor men which were not likely to be tealised. He, therefore, en• treated the Government, if they had not already made up th , it minds on this subject, to do so as soon as possible, in order that the agitation which now existed might be set at rest. With regard to the question of superannuation, togs gether with the deductions to which the civil service was sub jected, the committee bad recommended that it should be referred to two impartial actuaries. If the actuaries had made their report, perhaps the Government would :ay whe ther they had any objection to lay it on the table. General CO ; ) RINGTOY said, there was a great difference between the wages paid in the arsenal at Woolwich and those paid in the dockyard. The dockyard received the inferior labourers, and a constant change of hands took place, which was detrimental to the proper execution of the work. Mr. WEGUELIN observed, that in the payment of salaries to the civil service the remuneration ought strictly to corres pond with the amount and quality o f t h e work done. They ought not to complicate the question by having to calculate what deduction should be made on account of the superan nuation pension. Sir C. WOOD said, that the late Government had regulated the wages they paid according to the principle of supply and demand. They had raised the rate of pay of that claws of arti ficers whose services they could not secure at the previous scale of remuneration. With regard to the wages of the labourers, the rate was the same in all the Government dock yards, and it would be difficult to make it otherwise ; whereas the wages paid by private employers in the various neigh bourhoods often differed considerably. If varying rates were adopted by the Government they would create a good deal of beertburning. At Plymouth the wages of the established labourers who were not permanently employed, and who could come and go whenever they pleased, had not been in creased. The opinion that he had previously expressed as to the estimate for wages, &c., was confirmed by the memoran dum which the First Lord of the Admiralty had handed him for perusal. The vete was then agreed to. ARMY ESTIMATES, General PEEL, in rising to move that a sum nett exceeding 2,454,09 U. be granted to her Majesty to defrty the expenses for pay and a lowauces to her Majesty's land forces abroad, said that if the committee would refer to page 2 of the estimates, containing the abstract of those estimates, it would find that they were divided into six parts. He should, however, submit to the consideration of the committee upon that occasion only that portion of the esti mates which related to the effective department of the army, It was desirable to obtain the votes for that department pre vious to the introduction of the Budget, and he trusted, therefore, that the committee would excuse him if he re frained from entering into any detailed observations upon the subject of the various items contained in the estimates. If the committee were to enter upon that occasion into a general discussion of that nature he was afraid that not only would no progress be made in taking the votes, but that no satisfactory decision with respect to the several items of which they were composed could be arrived at. (Hear, hear.) It was customary in moving the estimates to institute a com parison between their present amount and that of the precede ing year, in order that the house might be afforded an oppor tunity of forming au opinion in reference to the expediency of any changes in the amount which might be proposed, Ho had simply to eta o upon that point that while the difference in the gross amount of the army estimates for this and the preceding year was but slight, there was a considerable varia tion of some of the items for the two periods —a variation the reasons of which ho should explain when he brought forward these estimates more in detail, There was, however, but one great comparison to be drawn in such cases —namely, that between the proposed amount of expenditure and the abso lute wants of the service. (Hear.) The proper system to adopt was to combine together, as far as possible, economy and efficiency, and ho felt bound in justice to the noble lord who had precede I him in office to say that he appeared to have framed his estimates upon the combination of those two important principles, (Hear, hear.) Indeed, to thoroughly had that policy been carried out by the noble lord that when he (Gen, Peel) had examined the estimates with a view of dis covering what reductions in them might be effected, he had come to the conclnsion that he would be justified in diminishing them only by a sum of 10,000/, by postpone ing some votes which might be brought forward upon a last r o a nly f uture occasion, sh ou ld th e ex i genc i es of the service require it, but th e postponement of which would be productive of no public inconveni ence. H e s h ould upon that occasion parti ula one vote in the estim a t es , an d t h at was a sum 0f.10, 0 00/. in orde r t o secure 100 CB-plunders to Malta. It would be recollected that w h en th e est i mates b ad been framed a great reduction had unfortunately been made in the army ; but, while ho was no advocate for keeping up a large army, circumstances over which he hid no control ren dered it imperative upon us to keep our army at a certain numerical standard. Ho trusted the house would excuse him from entering further into detail, and he begged to con. elude by placing the vote which he had risen to move in the chairman's hands. (Hear, hear.) Colonel VIVIAN hoped that when the right hon. and gal lant-,eneral entered into the general statement to which he had adverted, he would be prepared to give to the committee some explanation in reference to the reduction which he had made in the votes for the purchase of land for the erection of new barracks at Windsor. General PEEL said the Government had come to the con. elusion that no possible inconvenience could result from the postponement of the purchase to which the hon. and gallant member alluded. The vote was then agreed to, as was also a vote of 409,651/. for miscellaneous charges in connection with the land forces at home and abroad. A vote of 150,000/. to defray the expenses of the embodied militia having been put, Colonel BOLDERO complained of the inconvenience which resulted from placing a large number of items under one ge neral head in the estimates. The vote for the militia this year was general, and did not, as usual, give the various sums charged for the different bralach.e. Captain VIVIAN wished to know whether there was to be any general statement of the reasons for the reductions which had been made in the estimate framed by the late Govern ment. General PEEL said he should explain the reasons for the reduction upon each vote as it was taken. The vote was then agreed to, as was also one f or 58 , 0004 to complete the su m necessary defray the cost of the vo lunteerforces in Great Britain. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and the house re• sinned. LOAN SOCIETIES BILL. p e. ast 12, until R onda g a h t a co g ixt ua m it i e tt r e . The bill ho u s P e a a s cli utrhnreodu [A DvERTISMENT.]— uhe Recent Changes of Tempera. ture.—lt i 8 very important that such changes as have recently taken place in the temperature of the atmos phere should not be treated with indifference. The pub lic should be watchful of the effects which they frequently have on the body. The skin and the nervous system suffer severely—Erysipelas, blotches , boils, rheu ma ti sm , colds, sor e th roats, and the many other complaints of this nature being generated through the above cause. When symptoms of the above diseases show themselves they should be promptlylattended to. 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It enables deaf persons to hear distinct ly at church and at public assemblies ; the unpleasant sensation of singing noises in the ears is entirely removed, and it anords all the assistance that possibly could be desired.-39. Albe marle-street, Piccadilly—Opposite the York Hotel, W. BIRTHS. CARNWATII —On the 12th inst., at Heidelberg, the Coma tins of Carnwath, of a son and heir. MILTON—On the 14th inst., at 6, Sutherland-place, West. bourne-grove, Mrs. John Milton, of a daughter. ST. JOHN MILDMAY=-O❑ the 14th inst., at Shawford Lo.ige, Putney.heath, Mrs. Edmond H. St. John Mild may, of a son. MARRIAGES, a HILL—CURZON—On the 15th inst., at Kedleston, Derby shire, Lord A. Edwin Hill, M.P., to the Hon. Mary Catharine, youngest daughter of the late Hon. and Rev. Alfred Curzon. and sister of Lord Scarsdale. PEAcOCKE —GREVILLE—On the 15th inst., at St. Paul's, Knightsbridge, G. M. W. Peacocks, Esq., to Augusta Ma►y, youngest daughter of Algernon Greville, Esq. DEA T 11 S, GROVE —On the 14th inst. at his seat, Porno, Wiltshire, John Grove, Esq., aged 73. JraiON—On the 15th inat., at 27, Binfield-road, Stock well, Wm. T. M. Jebson, Esq., aged 56. PAsLEY—Gn the 15th inst., at 71, Onslow-equare, Bromp• ton„Toh n Pasley, Esq., formerly a Captain in her Ma jesty's Army. aged 62. ROWLAND—On the 11th inst., at Coulsdon, near Croydon, Surrey, Henry Rowland, Esq , aged 65. SKYNNER - On the 13th inst., the Rev. William Skynner, Rector of Bradley, Derbyshire, and of Cuxwold, Lin colnshire, and Vicar of Rushden, county of Hertford, aged B'. ToVEv—On the 15th inst., at Cliftonville, Hove, Sussex, Colonel George Tovey, aged 71. - _ (40DON : Printed and Published by hiIJRDO YOUNt of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county of Aliddlemex, Saturday, April 17, IM, .... P t CI