The Sun. — London, England, 1829-02-28 00:00:00

Thames in favour of emancipation. The Hon. Member i lower in 1527 and 1826. The deficiency in wages in observed. that in his np:n en: theme would he no peace for other years was made up in the account of stores—so the e mpire if en.ancieetion we-- net carried, meet, of n ships" Mini/ hI If IWI-..1 to each, and charged T:IE GAME LA , A'S.. ase iinst their wags. it occurred to him that it would ;Vim S. Wt:RTLEY lirooght in a Bill "to authorize simplify the aces cuts to lieve :he whale einount of wa l es the sells of game, and to alter the qualification taken for put under one head. Tiles the amount appearine under the killing of g.arae in England." The Bill was read a the head of " stores" was considerably n duced, and a cor first t and ordered to be read the second tune on Fri- responuline amount was added to the cliaree for wassee, though there was, in fact, uo real addition to the wagem— tam, m ot to he printed. 3;r. CAREW pr-Vented four petition' in favour of the o b j ect of the change being to put each account in its enieticioetimi, from uliffereur parts of the county of We'd ird. wrist simple form. He hid no objection to give any Hon. Mr. fIANKES presented three petitions against eamn- j Member an opportunity of examining the detene, in orner tips ion from D a uldebehire and C a rneirthenshire. tn Mew how the difference had accrued. The artemunt of Co' inel CUST prmsented a petition from Cheshire of a this anperert incresse of 3a. per man per month for wages like nie ere. I was 59,000/. ; but, is he had a lready said, the amount of Me. SYKES presented a petinion from Hull in favour ef I the charge for stores was reluced in the same proportion. e mancipation. The most undue mearet had been resorted i The next item was the charge for victualling. That had to in order to get ttp petitmoe* against the Catholics in ' increased in consequence of the increased price of flour, Mull. He had received a letter from a trieed which etat-d : and had created a necessity for adding Is. per month per that persons were posted at eimpuloore, like barkers at ! man. This, with the addition of the 3.. per head on the One of these men i rate of wanee, made this branch 78 , 000 /. greater than it meck a:m.6one, to solicit signatures. reductions in other asised some sailors to sign the petition, and when they heel- I we. in the last year, lint still, by tated he said, " My laas, do you want the Catholics to branches, there would be a reduction en the whole of . take your wages and cut your throats ?" The sailors still 117,000/. as compered with the last year. With respect hesitated, when he said, "If you do not sign, yout wave I to the public offices in London, there was no diminution, will be taken away and your throats cot." A copy of the I but some , ncreise of expence. This would he seen in the declaration of tire mutineers at the bore in 179 n was like- 1 vote for contingencies ; there were many nautical surveys wise ptacarderi. If a sailor were told that Popery was to lin progress in different parts of t he world, and the en he intoxluced into the country , he would readil y si g n a pe- I graving and publication of charts, which had thus b ecome tition ; but if he were told that he was likely to lose his necessary for the information of the public, had necessarily wages, he would aka it twice ever. created a considerable expence. The Committee were Mr. O'NEILL said that the sentiments of the majority aware that by an Act passed last year the Board of Ilngie of his ,:onetitiments were adverse to the measure of ounces- tulle was abolished. The expence of this Board consisted Men. and as a. isroof of it referred to the fart, that on the , of the charge of 1001. a Year each for five Commissioners, last election he had been plaeed 500 a-head nn the second who were professors of Oxford. There wan also 1001. a day's poll, solely with reference to his opinions, as con- year to the Astronomer Royal ; there were likewise three treated with those of his Hon. Colleague on this very Ties- gentlemen of eminent scientific acquirements who were tion. It was a conviction of the sentiment' of the people engaged at 1001. a year each. When the Board of le this respect which prevented his Hon. Colleague from Longitude was put down, the Admiralty thought that it being chaired on that occasion in the town where he re- would be proper to retain the services of those three Bided. With respect to the information conveyed in the gentlemen it their former salaries,—to act as a council, letter which tn.s Hon. Colleague had read, lie thought that whose advice might be resorted to on questions of science little weight ought to be attached to as anonymous corn- connected with the public service; and when he named Inunleation. the gentlemen whose services were thus engaged, the corn- The petition wag read, and ordered to be printed. niittee would admit that nine stood higher in scientific at- On the motion of Sir HENRY PARNELL, the plans tainrnent. The act limited the choice to .Members cf the and estimates of Mr. Telford for the Liverpool road were Cuuneil of the Royal Society, as that would afford the ordered to be laid before the House. best chance of giving men fully qualified fur the service re- The Earl of I3ECTIVE presented two petitions from quired. The names of the gentlemen selected were Dr. parishes in the county of Meath, in favour of Emancipation ; Young, w Captain Sabine, and Mr. arreu. One of those also a petition for the re p eal of the Vestr y Act.—Ordered gentlemen as engaged in making i F mportant experiments to be printed. on die manufacture of glass. The charge thus incurred Mr. KNOX preseri • ed a petition front a parish in the would not, be was sure, be considered too touch, when county of Tyrone in favour . of Emancipation. the importance of its object was censidered. There was Mr. M. FITZGERALD presented a similar petition also the sumn of I,oool. 'i la at the disposal o inventi f the Ad from a parish in Kerry. miralty, to enable it to ve rewardfor useful o, Mr. RUNIBOLD presented a similar neeition from War- and also to defray the experiments. These were usually done, in the county of Wilts. superintended by the Board of Longitude, or the Council Mr. J. WOOD presented similar petitions from a Uni- ch of iethe R de voloyal Soc on iety the t ; but in futu e re that charge name would tarian congregation in Hunter-street, Liverpool ; from fly ve gentlmen lie d. Rochdale ; and from a congrogation of Protestant Dissenters The next subject to which he would advert wag the Navy in Park-lane Chapel, near Wigan.—Ordered to be printed. Pay-office. In consequence of recent defalcations which .Mr. H. MAXWELL presented five petitions against had occurred in that office, the serious attention of the Emancipation from parishes in Cavan.—To be printed. Admiralty had been bestowed on it with the view of SILK TRADE. placiug it tin such a footing as to prevent the facility of Mr. FYLER presented a petition from the directors of any defalcations in future : but the Committee were aware the poor in the parishes of the Holy Trinity and St. that the duties of the office of paymaster of the navy were Michaele, in Coventry. The Hon. Member observed, regulated by Act of Parlienment, and any alterations which that there existed great distress amongst the persons en- might be necessary for that purpose must be by legisla gaged in that trade in Coventry and several other parts of tive enactment, and a measure for that purpose would the country. He would not now enter into any statement be submitted to the House in a short time. Sonic rep as to the causes of that distress. He rose for the purpose of ietiens would also be introduced with respect to the ei seeing, that if some other member did Out move for the up- vil establishmont at Greenwich, which would undergo a pointraent ef a Committee on this subject, he himself minute inquiry with aerie to d prevent fraud but s shisimila must r to would undertake the task. th which had been mmitte there; t The petition was brought up and read ; and it appear- also be done by legislative enactment. It was in con ing that it was signed by one individual on behalf of the templation to make sonic change with respect to the others present at the 3leeting, payment of pensions, which would be transferred to The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Member that the the cffice of the Treasurer of the Navy. In tie petition could be received only as that of the individual Navy Pay-office it was proposed to make sonnet reductions. whose name was signed to it. The forms of the House There were at present in that office, besides the Comptrole dial not admit of any one individual representing others by lar of the Navy, with a salary of 2,600/. a-year, two sor did petitions on their behalf, except under the seal of veyore, eod five Co with 1,000/. cartea-a ch. a corporate body. It was intend - Ad reduce the number of the wh six. Ou the question that the petition do lie on the table, ,An alteration was alum proposed with respect to the clerks, .3lr. ROBINSON (Member for Worcester) said, that with a view to prevent time increase of superannuation al great distress ex i s t e d i n t h e s ilk tra d e ; thou g h h e was not lowances. To effect this it was intended to Xll up vacan prepared to say it arose w h o lly f rom t h e lat e mea sures, yet ties as they occurred, front the list of supernumeraries, who he had no doubt that it was greatly aggravated by them. would be perfectly satisfied with the increased pay, with- After mature deliberation, his opinion was in favour of a out (as we understood the Hon. Member) being entitled Committee of Inquiry, and when that measure was brought to superannuations. By this means a gradual and effective fotward it should have his support.—The petition was reduction of charge would be creeted. The reduction of ordered to lie on the table. r of the Coninminnuners of the Navy will re- On the motion of Lord Low'ruxa, there was ordered tube quire the authority of an Act of Parliament to give it laid hefere the House an account to the sth Jan., 1829, of the effect : for, in consequence of the reduction, it will be ne money received and expended in carrying into execution cessary to bring in a Bill similar to that brought in some the improvements under the Act 7th Geo, IV. c. 77. years ago, when the number of the Lords of the Adrni- IMPRESSMENT OF SEAMEN. ratty was reduced, to enable the signature of two of the Sir G. CLERK moved the Order of tee Day for the Commissioners to have the same force which the signature House tesolvitig itself into a Committee of Supply, fur the of time three of them has at present. Le the Victualling purpose o f e onsidrring the Navy Estimates. office it is proposed to reduce one Commissioner; it is itn. Mr. ROBINSON said, that he wished to take this op- possible to carry the reduction further in this Department, portunity of asking, whether it was the intention of the owing to the misceileneous nature of the duties whielt it Admiralty to introduce any measure for abelishing the eye- has to perform. It lota to superintend the furnishing, not tern of the impressment of seamen ? He was aware of the only of all previsions, but also ef all the medical stores great oelicacy of this subject; but it appeared to him used in tbe Navy. It is, therefire, neeNs try to provide s o re puenant to the principles of our Cunstitution, and fir the occasional absence not only of the medical, but also so m uch opposeui to the best feeling" of humanity. of the profeaeional C om missioners, who have is superintend chit nothing short of the most absolute necessity these distinct a partment-. The Boarl its at present consti. c.d.: ju,tify its rontitiu ice. As a eummerci , ul imme mord consist- et a Clialeueto Deputy-Chairman, awl five he enuld tae that it Opervel mint injuriously to C om mission-re, and their sala:. - is (4 sue heard Sit the Male of the kingdom. It had the effect of enornuously George Clerk correctly) had been reduced to 5,001. The raising the rate of wages to commercial sailors, sail uarti- Committee of Finance had said tat a further reduction cdsrly where they were engaged on foreign stations, where might be made imm this department. He admitted that it the difficulty of procuring men enough to navigate ships was easy to say so, bat iie awl:, remind the Committee, that on tbeir homeward voyage was so greet, that stuns emir- in unl reductions which relate to emeli important branches Ineuenr high were paid for "run money," as it was caPed, ii the public service it is requisite to act with caution and In tine view lie took of this s ubject be would abolish itns nelibetation, to-t by making an incensiderate redection, a presetnent altogether ; but if tha t could no:. e eonvenieutly greater expenditure should ultituateiy be incurred by the done at once, he woul d ta k e the power of enforcing it public. He trusted, however, that before the Navy Esti from the hinds of subo r d inate officers. for it was exercised mates were submi tted to consideration next year, he should by offierre of the lowest ranks, and often with a want of be able to make such a reduction in this branch of them as discretion which was ftauad extremely prejudicial to the would meat the cordial approbation of the Committee. Th 2 O wners of ships and cargoes. if it were to be kept up at charge for wages to artificers and labourers employed in the all, be would place the power in the hands of some wpm. yards at horse is reduced this year, when compared with rlor officer, by whose orders, and under whose respensi- the charge of last, by 10,000/. The 'sum votsil for this bility alone it should be executed. By this means much estimate last year was 490,0001. ; the sum propesed to lie of the inconvenience which heretofore resulted from: it would voted this year is 410,000/. He had already seated, in be avoided. He would not urge the subject further at acetiuntine, for the apparent increase in the charge for the present, but hoped the Hon. Member below him would .oate of men afloat, thet it was Casioocned by the transfer give an answer to his quemion. e head of wages of a pert el enditue, which STr G. CLERK said, in answer to the Hon. M e mber's was b e asee included under the head of Mores. Though there inquiry, he could state that there was no iutentien on the I is an a pparent saving this year under the head of stores, to part of the Admiralty to recommend the introduction of 1 the amount of 90,0001., it is not to be forgotten that any measure for the abolition of imnresement altogether. , 60,000/. of it is occasioned by its being transferred to the \ Regulations had been already made and were in progress, head of wages. The next item is, the charge for pilotage, which would contribute so much to the eomfort of seamen which it larger than it was last year. Fur the last six in the navy, that there was little chance of its being re- years the sum voted has regularly been less titan the e;,.. sorted to even in time of war. pease incurred. The vete has generally been for 40,0001, Mr. HUME, though he concurred with the Hon. but the charge has always exceeded that sum. With the in- Member opposite (Mr. Robinson), yet thought that the tention of making the vote approxissiete to the actual expen enoment of going into the navy estimates was not the pro- diture, it is mew proposed to take 60,0001. ;men this item. per one for its discussion. T h e sub j ect was one of such On the remaining parts of the estimates be hail only to re great impormuice as to deserve to be considered separately; mark, that there was very little difference from those of last and if the Hon. Mesnber would fix any day for its intro- year. There ie a small increase in the medical estirnitte tluction, he would be very happy to support his view of it, arising kern the increased price of provitions. There is, The Order of the Day was then read, and the rotation for however, a tesienetion in the expense incurred for the the .Speaker's leaving the Chair having been agreed to, Royal Naval College a,c - Portsmouth. It was proposed last the House went into the year that the students should he called upon to pay a larger COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIMATES. stun fur their education, in order to meet the expenses of Sir G. CLERK, in submitting the Navy Estimates for the college ; and in consequence of that proposition, the the cresent year, could assure the Committee that the sum demanded from each student haul been increased, Admiralty had devoted its utmost. attention to all the de. Previously to last Session, 70 eons of naval officers were pertinent , : connected with the Navy, with a view to reduc- educated at the College. reOfm th inder ese, paidart were educated tion wherever it was practicab le. The result was that a gratuitously, whilst the a 70/. . The very co nsiderable reduation had beet mule in many of the number of student,* is now increased to 80. Of this num:- civil departments and others were in progress which would b2r, 40 are to be the acoa of officers, and the sum which enable them to announce a still greater reduction in the they are to pay is to be propertional to the rank which ensuing year. For himself and hie Hon. Colleagues he their fathers held in the service. 'J u g reniaiiiing 40 are would my, that they had bestowed the most diligent at- to be tie mom s of civilians, and the sum which they are to t e ntion to every depurtruent in its most minute details; pay is to be increased from 70/. to 1261. We do not i:411 nor would their attention be remitted uutil they should upon such et:se:snots as were in the college before the lat of have brought each to the lowest scale of red-action con- January of last year go pay this sum : but we calculate eistent with the maintenance of an efficient naval force, that this next year, whorl a,ll the students will have sufficient for the exigencies of the country. Notvvitiommd, to pay the sum fixed by the new revelation, the ex ing that the force to he kept up this year was the same in pease* of the College will not be greats: than the numerical amount in several of the civil branches, there sum now mentioned in the Estimates. Whilst upoe Lad beeu reductions which would diminish the expence this subject, there is one point to which he would this year upwards of 100,0001. as compared with the last. cell the attention of the Cenunittee. In order to It would be now hie duty to point out to the Committee afford improvement to naval offieera io the scientific the nature of some of the reductions, and to eaplein why branches of their profession, the Lords of the Admiralty others which had been made did not appear on time e , .:4- load come to a determination that the Profaner at the Royal mates before them. In the fast place, the amount of ;;ayal College should deliver lectures upon them in the fort.* to be kept up was, as he had already staled, the same naval soli.: o: of architecture, to all such officers as should this year as the last. The circumstances which required think proper to ateenel them. No additional charge will a considerable naval force in the east of Europe, e..r4 which be incurred by the pubic boa this improvement. The lied last year rendered an increase of our naval force see, naval officers who shall think proper to emeil themselves of e,ssary, , were still the same. In that quarter and o ther it wit! live at their own exp ense at Portsmouth dueinn the stations abr o ad, it was necessary to the maintenance of the time of the immures, and will not be entitled to expect any honour of the British fag, and to protect ou; commercial remuneration for it f:.):,YI the public purse. There is little interests. Th e f o rce e mployed for this purpose was as alteration in the second part ()Effie estimates, which relate low as it could be for such an object, and not greater to the half-pay, and to the superannuation:: granted to timo that of other powers on similar service. It was neeess officers in the military line of the naval service, and to sary fur him to explain the apparent increase which had their widows am! relatives. The vote to the widows of been made la the rate of seamen's wages, which were in the • officers is this year increased, and he was sorry to say was estimates at 3s. per man per m onth higher than the last likely to go on increasing. The restrictions which de year. It would be in the r e collection of those Hon- 3lene- priCred widows of their pensions on their re-marriage had hers who had sat i n th e Fi nance c o mmittee, that when been taken off some years ago, in consequence of suggestions the Comptroller of the N a vy was examined before the made and supported by that House —an alteration which cotumittee, he stated that the amount fur wages was a had led to great increase in this vote, and especially in that part of it which depended on tire pensions granted to the widows of the lower officers in the navy. It may be worth ,onsidering hereafter whether the old restrictions ought tat to he continued : at the same time he must state, ta it as the removal of them was forced up o n the Governmert, it did not become the Govern ment spontaneously to renew them. The ineivaae, he ought to state, was from 124,835/ to 129,323/. The third branch of the estimates, which related to the wcrlie of the yards was 80,000 1 . less this year than it wee last. But before be entered into a detail of its different it: trip, he would just r, mark that it was the intentiou Government to place the widows' fund under a different management from that under which it was placed at resent. Great cart of the 110,000/. whirl' is to 1:e voted for the widows' charity, is only voted to make good the deficiency in the funds of the charity voted the poldie, for the relief of the widows of commissioned and warrant officers in the royal navy The Hon. Member (•eb" a e enunciation is at all times thick and indistinct , and who was very indistinctly heard during the greater part of his speech) here dropped his voice so low, that it was im !sossible to collect correctly his explanation upon this point. e understood him to say that the deficiency which Ire had mentiend was generally made good by placing a fic titious number of men on a ship's books, and by apply ing the pay of that fictitious number to make good any pensions which might accrue during the year to the widows of any officers who died on hoard of it. Besides this, there was a sum paid over by the navy agents from the pay of each naval officer, to say nothing of a small sum of 3d. in the pound taken from the pay of the sailor to make good the same deficiency. Now this was an awk ward way of doing. it ; and he thought that a sum of money should be voted directly for that object, in order to check the growing expense to which it was subjecting the country. With respect to the works in the yards, he had only to observe that there had been a general diminu tion in the expense of every item in that branch of the expenditure. There is, however, one new charge in this third part of the estimates; he alluded to the charge of building an engine-house at Portsmouth. This house was required to repair the accidents which were often occur ing in the boilers and engines of steam-boats. Great ad vantage would acrue to the public from the erection of it. At present, it any accident happens to the boilers, there is no means of repairing it, except by sending the steam boat into the river, a circumstance which prevents it from being so readily restored to the service as it might laa were the accident 'repaired on the spot, and which might at some time be extremely detrimental to the public. service. To prevent such an occurrence, it is in tended to build an engine-house at Portsmouth, for the purpose of repairing there any accidental injury which may befal the boiler or machinery of his Majesty's steam-boats. The estimate for this engine-house was 7,600/. Though the sum wanted to complete the works at Sheerness is 156,0001., it is not intended to take any sum on that ac count this year. The works there are now out of danger; the docks, basins, and sea-walls, are sufficiently advanced to be safe against all attacks of the waves and weather; and if an emergency should arise, the storehouses for the service of the yard may be run up in a very short time.— It is not intended to run up at present the storehouses for the ordnance ; and the money already voted for those works is quite sufficient to keep them in repair. The charge for the purchase of provisions for troops to be embarked in the navy is this year 275,000/. and is greater than it was last year, owing to the increased price of pro\dsions. He trusted, however, that there would be a reduction in this item next year, as also in the expences of the Transport Board, which had been considerably reduced already. He had now gone through the whole of the navy estimates, and he was happy to say that the charge of this year was much less than the charge for last year. Last year the charge for the navy estimates was 5,990,000/. ; this year it was 5,878,794/., being a rednction of 11i3,000/. in round numbers. The Hon. Member then moved, that "it is the opinion of this Committee that 30,000 men, including 9,000 royal marines, bra employed to serve in his Majesty's fleet for 13 lunar months, commencing the Ist day of Jan. 829." Mr. HUME could not find that satisfaction which many gentlemen appeared to experience, at hearing the magnificent promises in which the lion. Member had in - (bilged, respecting the reductions which the Lords of the Admiralty intended to make in future. If he could credit those promises, it would be well ; but be had now had some experience in Parliament, and he saw that whilst every year Minister: promised the country reduction after reduction, the country Lained nothing but increase after increase of its expenses. He had therefore come to this conclusion, that promises he would avoid, and reduction he would prefer. He was sure that every Member of the Finaoce Committee then present would recollect that the impression made upon them by the evidence which they took was, that very great reduction could be made in this department of the public expenditure. He complained of the Members of the Finance Committee, and be thought that they would now admit that he complained with jus tice—he complained of them, he said, for thinking it un necessary to make a report last Session, recommending re• ductioni in those eetimatee, and for supposing that the presenting the evidence which they had taken, respect ing their expediency, would have as groat an effect upon Ministers as the recommendations of their report. Re ductons ought to have been made in the Pay-office, re luc tiooe ought to have been made in the N ivy office; but beyond acy thing rsiduetions ought to have been made in the Dock yards. Ue had he trd it said in this place and in that-, that time Duke of W•liiiigton intended to eeer this Board of its supernumeraries, and that be would get rid of all hut the working bees from all the puhlie offices. Judge, then, of his surprise, in finding that there was to he an greater reduction in the navy estimates this year than one of 117,0001. ; and that, too, as the Hon. Baronet had stated fairly enough, was made up of 40,000!. saved in storey, and of 80,C00/. for works, which it was not intended to finish. He did oat see any reason for spinning cut the erection of public works for years, as was done with the Breakwater at Plymouth ; the best plan was to go to the expense at once, which would prove a great saving to the public. With regard to the a mount of our force, he would only observe that we hail last year 30,254 men employed in the navy, and that it appeared from the evidence of Sir George Cockburn, that we ought not to have snore than 20,000 or 21,000 men, unlege we were in a state of warfare. The vote now proposed would, if carried, compel the House to keep up the naval esta blishments for this year at an expense of 5,100,000/. — He thought that a force of 30,000 men was at pro• sent unnecessary, and that the navy was placed in a very awkward situation, owing to its having 2,700 men of the number voted for it employed in preventing stunggling, and 700 more employed in the packet ser vice. He would reduce 3,200 raeu on this score, and would find a force in another quarter to collect the revenue, and to navigate packets for the Post-office. We had now 9,000 Royal Marines; but of this number 5,533 were always employed on shore. if we could reduce the army to that amount, he should not object to keeping up such a force of marines. lie would get rid of the number of marines who were thus employed on shore, and he mold apps reduce 9,000 men without at all crippling the effective force of the navy. We had also 2,000 men acting as a sort of police at Lisbon. He did not know what occasion we had for them in Portugal, and he should like to learn. With respect to the other parts of our naval establishment, a greater reduction ought also to be made. He would not build ships for which we had no present want. Ile would suppose that the tonnage of our navy ought to be 300,000 tons ; and he did not think that it ought to be more. lie eould inane that amount of tonnage at 30/. a ton, or for nine millions Now, sioce the peace, we had expended more than twice that stun in building ships, to say nothing of what we had gxpended in repairs. The country had therefore been put to an expence as enormous as it was unnecessary, for this extraordinary manufacture of ships. if we had built less ships, we should have had less to repair, and a fewer number to fall into decay. The wages paid to arti- Acere and labourers in his Majesty's yards at home amount ed this year to 4.80,000/. The charge for timber, stores, and other materials foe doe building and repair of ships was 759,0001. exclusive of 120,0001. reessived for old naval stores, making in all a sum of 1,359,0001. actisai exprice incurred in 1828 for the manufacture of ships. Such an oospenditure was altogether . useless. We might save a million in th.e estimate without lessening our navy too much. The cost of the prds at home this year was 115,0001, that of the yards abroad 1: 4 ,2,9001. znd this added to the sum before-mentioned formed an aggregate of 1,5.7,0001. Instead of an expenditure of this amount, 220,0001. or 240,0p01. was the average cost of building and repairing our slip preyioue to the French war of 1793. He maintained that the er,pene cf ohip-boilde ing, &c. might have been reduced to that amount during the last eight or nine years, and a sufficient navy still kept up. As he had before said, a saving of more than 1,0,;001. might thus have been effected. The civil es tablishments connee'sed with the navy cost now upwards of 180,000/. ; before the Fiends war the expense seldom reached 60,000/. ;be might state it at 58 r ,000/. Here also there was ample room fur reduction. The Pay-office would adiamit of reduction —the business of it could be per formed by eight or nine clerks, and a considerable saving might be effected in this way. He was con v i nce d that the Navy Office might be dispensed with altogether—that and the Arm) Pay Office could be consolidated. The head of the department stated before the Ilu h at t ic be dispensedeConainittee,w tiltih. at of 52 clerks employed iu it, 10 might Had this been done ? IC not, where was the disposition to economy for which Government claimed credit? The Dock-yards were on a scale which the state of the country did 13.4 warrant. It was admitted we did not want the number of men employed at present in them. Why, then, retair. such a number of men ? Why keep up so many yard., at an expense of 1.15,0001., when formerly the cost of this brancll did not exceed 25,000/. It might be re duced by one half. According to the evidence Of John Bar row, Esq., r.vho was examined before the Finance Commit tee, and it must be admitted was a most competent and in telligent witness, the expense of superintendence in the KiLg's yards was greatly :Move that of private establish ments. Whibt 550,0001. was the whole amount p .id for labour, a sum of 155,0001. was laid to clerks ar,d superin tendents, being nearly in the prcoortion of one to four. The Victualling Establishment was much ton expensive. • We had now arrived at a time when so heavy an expen diture as that of this departmelat, a mornating to 64,0001., should not be maintained. It ought to be converted into a store branch. There was not one article provided by the Victual:in;.! Board which could rot be provided by contract as good and cheaper than at present. Government should cease to be the manufteturer of any one article that could be procured in the country in the ordinary manner. He thought it very hard that the navy should be mixed up with other branches of the public service, and all under the colour of noval expenditure. He would have every article placed under the proper account. We might thus reduce and weed out the navy estimates so as to diminish them by 1,500,0001. or 2,000,0001. sterling. Sir BYAM MARTIN was quite at a loss to conjecture when the navy estimates would be low enough to obtain auy approbation from the Hon. Member who had last addressed the House. The gross amount of the estimates this sear was 5,878,000/. But deductions were to be made from this sum on account of auperannuations, Green wich Hospital, transports, &c. to the amount of 2,160,0001. leaving a balance of only 3,718,000/, really applicable to the purposes of the navy, and to defray all the expellees incidental to it. This included the cost of building and repairing ships, of pay, provisions, victualling, &c. The Hon. Member objected to the increased expellee of the civil departments of the navy, as compared with the cost of these branches of the public service previous to 1793. Bu: the Hon. Member should have taken into account the im mense increase of business in these departments., W'it6 respect to the etpence of superintendence, he (Sir Byam Martin) was at a loss to imagine where Mr. Barrow (whose evidence was referred to by the lion. Member) had discovered the circumstances on which lie founded his conclusions. He (Sir Ilyatri Martin) was acquainted with a respectable firm of ship-builders, in which salaries of SS 1/. per annum were paid to three foremen who su perintended 160 working men. This was exclusive of thu exertions of the two partners, who wore themselves practi cal ship-builders. In the King's yards there were seven master shipwrights, besides masters, attendant storekeepers, timber and store receivers, timber converters, &c., receiv- ing in wages 37,3801. annually. The conclusion to which he came was, that the superintendents in private yards were to the workmen in the proportion of 1 to 24, while in the King's yards they were only as Ito 36. Mr. . _ row included the pay of clerks in his estimate of the cost of superintendence in his Majesty's yards. Now he (Sir B. Martin) omitted that item of expence altogether in his calculation, and for this reason, that the clerks in the dock- yards had to do with ships abroad as well as with n4val expencus at home, and were necessary to the transactions constantly taking place in a❑ establishment where there were 30,000 seamen. As a reason for the increased amount payable on account of wages now, as.compare,l with the sum paid for the same purpose in 1792, we should consider that the price of provisions had doubled since that period. This alone afforded a satisfactory reason why a larger sum than formerly should be paid in wages and for stores at present. Mr. MABERLY said, it mattered not whether or not, as had been stated by the Hon. and Gallant Member, the expenses of the navy (strictly speaking) were 3,800,0001., and the remaining- 2,000,0001., that appeared on the esti mates, was for other put poses. The question for the House to consider was—were these expenses necessary ? Could any part, and if so what portion, of them be dimi nished? Let the House conic to the evidence taken before the Finance Committee in ISt2S, as regarded our naval establishments. It was so clear that no one could misun derstand it, and, he might add, it was equally candid. It appeared to him that a great reduction ought to take place in the amount of men attached to the navy. In the pre sent settled state of things, when we were more tranquil and to all appearance had a greater prospect of continued repose than usual, why, he asked, did we keep a force of 30,000 seamen, when 20,000 appear amply sufficient.-- If we were really in a tranquil state, if we enjoyed not merely peace but a likeliireod of its continuance, we ought not to have such a number of seamen. If, as the gallant officer (Sir George Cockburn) said, when giving evidence before the Finance Committee, 20,000 sea men were sufficient in time of peace for this country, and if, as the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) as sured the House, we were in a state of profound peace, then we had 10,000 men too many in our navy,_ It appeared that a large reduction should be made in the public offices connected with the navy. The expense of time Navy Pay-office ought to be diminished. A consoli dation would be desirable in several departments. It was stated that we had as many ships as could he required, and that the men in the yards; were reduced to five (Lye' work. A reductmon, and of a more de: idtd nature than this, should have taiien place long ago. Ships were built unnecessarily, and trill kept up at a large cost. We had a right to expect a large reduction in time Navy. lie deprecated the practice of re taining s hipwrights whom we might or might not hilapen to want twenty or thirty years hence. Government could always comm aid a euppy of workmen from private yards whenever their services should be required—at least :inch was time natural presureetion. More yards were also kept up than were at all necessary : there should be a eon eieeruble reduction in the number. Ships we had in abun titutce, and when the large ships, at present on the stocks, were finished, there should be a. reduction in stores and other things. We should also reduce the number of men eampioyed in the yards. He did anticipate that next year there %smi,' be large and extensive reductions in the Naval department. With respect to the proportion exist ing in the King's yards, between the persons engaged in the ',thee:hag department, he could not suppose the Gal lant Admiral (Sir 13. Martin) correct in hie statement. Mr. Barrow, who gave evidence upon that point was no inadequate authority; be took his evidence borne to cor rect it, and time result of his testimony was, that we had a very large tuperaliundance of everseets and directors in our yards, not only as compared e nth private yards but in men parisoe with other nations. The irresistible conclusion from this gentleman's evidence was, that the cost of super intendence in his Majesty's yards was much larger than it ought to be, and that a great saving might be made in that as well as in other branches of the public service. Sir GEORGE COCKIIURN felt desirous of making an abservatiun or two with respect to what he had stuted lest year, when examined before the committee. It was only on condition that he sheuld be allowed to consider time stare of peace ae being without any chance of interruption, and that there were no piracies to be suppreesed,—in short, nothing to endanger public tranquillity, ur cell for naval exertion,—it Was only upon these provisos, that, in obe dience to what appeared to be the express wish of the committee, he had stated what might be sufficient to keep up the appearance of an effective foveae in foreign stations. The establishment in time West Indies had been reduced, and the Admiral removed off that station, when immedi ately a complaint was made by the merchants that the I trade . of this country was endangered by daring pirates in those seas, which rendered it necessary the force should be re-established. It was sail there was no necessity for us as a nation to keep the police of the sea; yet all must feel is was highly beneficial to British trade to do so, and we must thereby be gainers in the end. 13y the reduction of the British force off Lisbon, it was intended and expected we should have been able to meet in part the wishes of the advocates of further retrenchment ; but that was found inexpedient, because the force off Lisbon was found re quisite in the Mediterranean Sea, where two powerful flepte, those of France and Russia, continued to cruise. liilottvithatanding the deference he was desirous to pay to the recommendation of the Finance Committee, he would assure their Chairman, whom he saw opposite, that we bail not one ship now more than we wanted. In fact, if wa r broke out, there were not enough of either frigates or se sallee vessels of war. He f e lt w i t h th e C om mittee, that , the number of superintendents hoth in the Dock-yards and she department in London was too great. Thole situa tions had been narrowly inspected, and should be still further examined, and though it could not he done in a iaoment, yet he pledged himself a reduction was in con templation and shonld be effected, so as tq circtnneeribe the number within the proper bounds. Ile must again eh serve the Marines were not too many ; they were a most desirable force, and very difficeit to raise on a sudden. Be sides, at present, they were employed on shore, on garri ;en duty, and so far rendered regular troops of the line unnecessary to that amount of force. The principal port for fitting out in future was to be Sheerness, to which place the Commissioner was to be removed from Chatham, which port, with that of Woolwich, was to be confined to building vessels of war. Sir H. PARNELL could not, after even what had been said, conceive there actually existed a necessity for so great a naval force as that now proposed to be kept, up, wore especially in the present pacific aspeet of our foreign relations. After a few observations from Sir GEORGE CLERK (which were inaudible) and Sir C. COLE, Mr. Alderman WAITEIMAN begged to ask why was not the report of the Finance Committee, which had been promised with abundant details on this subject, ere this period before the House ? Mr. lIUME recommended the Victualling Board to the Pon. and Gallant Admiral, as a department in which va lable reductions might be effected. Lord ALTHORP believed that if all the three branches of this service were as well conducted as they might be, the Navy Board, instead of the Ordnance Board, might fairly be considered the pattern Board for all others. Mr, A. BARING confessed he should he sorry, in the present state of Europe, to see any very considerable re duction take place in the effigy ient naval force of the country. It was vain to refer to 1793, since which a to tally new naval power had arisen—the United States of America, than which none required to be more sedulously observed and watched..--.(Hear, hear.)—He felt that there, however, was still considerable room for improvement in the naval departments of the country. He believed Go vernment sincere in its assurances, that it was desirous of carrying into effect the recommendation of the Finance Committee, and he was happy to think it hail, as he thought, fallen into such competent hands. The great evil of the system, and the cause of such extravagant es timates, as they seemed to be, being produced of late years, was to be found in the heavy yearly charge of the dead weight of this service, which, combined with that of the army, amounted to between fire and six millions a-year. If, then, the part absorbed by the dead weight from the navy estimates were abstracted altogether, he believed every calculator there would be of opinion that the charge was in reality extremely moderate for the yearly maintenance of so great a naval force as we had on foot at present. Admiral EVANS could not let the opportunity pass over without remarking upon the, as lie thought, unfair application that Hon. Members made of the phrase " dead weight." That phrase was used as a means of bringing the system of half pay (thence the officers who received that half pay) into disfavour with the public. Surely those who had spent their lives in the service of their country were entitled, in the evening of their days, to an honour able allowance or pay for those services. Hon. Members, however, seemed to think otherwise, as if old officers were not to he thought of when their services were no longer available or required. It reminded him of a saying which was not, perhaps, unknown to some in that House, which ran— " When sailors are wanting, we'll give them bread and beer; But now the French are beaten, there's nothing to fear." And so the sailor's expence Islay be dispensed with. He trusted that such would never be the system pursued in this country. Mr. HUME did not, for one, object to the half-pay of old officers who had seen service, but of young ones who could have had no opportunity of earning a permanent re ward from the country. As to the term " dead weight," it originated with Ministers, and was extolled by the pre sent Lord Goderich when Chancellor of the Exchequer, as a nostrum against all the abuses of the half-pay system.— Ile wished to hear an explanation of the extraordinary dis. proportion between the expence of the officers and the pri vates of the marine corps. The former cost the country 86,6001., while the expenditure of the latter was but 65,000/., both making with contingencies a cost of 200,000/. He also wished to know whether it was in tended that the marine barracks should fall under the superintendence of the Board which managed the barracks •f the ordnance, and other departments? Sir G. CLERK replied, that it was not intended to consolidate the marine barracks with the superintendence of the hatred:s of other branches of the public service. The reason that the item of marine officers appeared so disproportionate with that of the privates was, that in the smaller vessels no officer higher than a seigeant attended the marines afloat. If the officers were equally afloat with the privates, as they were in the larger vessels, there would appear no disproportion. After a few words from Mr. MABEitLY, in support of Mr. Ifume's proposition, the vote was agreed to. A resolution, voting 1,140,000/. for the pay of 30,000 men in the naval service, at the rate of 2/. 12s. per month each seamen, daring the current year, was next agreed to. - £613, 500 ivas voted for the charge of victualling those 30,000 seamen in the year 1829, at the rate of 1/. 13s. per man per month. £180,727 11s. 7d. was next voted for the salaries and contingent expenses of the officers of the Admiralty, Navy, and Victualling offices. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained in reply to Mr. Hume, that the system of franking letters to and from the Admiralty and Navy offices was at present done away with, all letters hieing paid for to the Post-office. By this arrangement the expense was ex actly determined, and the means of abuse checked. £145,811 18s. Sd. was voted for the salaries of officers and contingent expenses of his Majesty's home dock-yards. £480,000 was voted for the wages of labourers em phiyed in those dock-yards. £60,000 for pilotage expenses was the next resolution. Mr. HUME objected to the system of placing the ex pense incurred for the suppression of the Slave Trade as an item for a Navy Estimate, with which it could have no possible connexion. He hoped that in future the slave head money and other expenses to which the public was put to check the traffic in slaves woedd be brought before the House in a distinct tangible form. Those expenses were already beenrmotr fruitlesslys—it being g expended,ac to whichknowledged s that 6 :0 0 0 00 0:00 000 0 1 i had more !night be added, including the expense of the pesti lent stations of Sieara Leone. The resolution was then agreed to. £759,718 for the charge of timber and other materials used in the home dock-yards was next voted, after a few observations from Mr. Home and Sir G. Clerk, who stated that the contracts were chiefly for British oak and Adriatic timber. The following resolutions were agreed to without any observation : £52,141 3s. 3d. for the salary of officers, and con tiugent expenses for the foreign dock-yards. £61,356 fir the salary of officers and contingent ex penses of the Vie:smiling-yards. £64,455 13s. 6d. for the expense of the Naval Medical Department. £lOl,OOO 6s. for the charge of keeping vessels in ordinary. The next vote was 3,121/. 8.. 3d. for the charge of the Royal Naval Architectural College. Mr. HU3IE was glad to see that that vote had been re duced since last year one half. He would go a step fur ther, and reduce it altogether. Sir G. CLERK said, that when the system of the officers on the new scale was more . mature, those officers would defray the entire expense of the Architectural College. Mr HUME was happy to say, that for once Ministers had satisfied him in their plans of reduction of the expen diture of the public money.—(Hear, and laughter.) The following resolutions were then aereed to : £51,715 fur victualling the officers and men on hoard small vessels. £32,490 for the hire of packets. £40,000 for ship-building at Bombay. se i uBa7n3s,wseor to Ofo a question r t half- p f a r y o nolf Sirnaval .office rCote,—s Sir G. COCKBURN was still of opinion that it would be beneficial to allow a discretion to be vested in the First Lord of the Admiralty to sanction the purchase and sale of commissions in the navy ; and, had lie been examined be fore the Finance Committee, it was his intention to have urged this point upon their consideration. £129,393 for pensions, superannuations, and allowances to naval officers, their widows, anti families. £lO,OOO, for allowances to widows and orphans on the e.ornpassionate list. ±llO.OOO, towards the pay of warrant officers. 10,000, fur allowances to the widows of marine officers. The following resolutions were then agreed to—nansely, that a sum not exceeding 250,000/. be granted his Majesty, for expellees of out-pensioners of Greenwich Hospital ; 161,760/. for commissioners and clerks ; 108,6001. for re pairs of dock-yards ; 275,060/. for the convict service ; and 250,000/. for the transport service. The House resumed.—Report on Menday. TURNPIKE BILLS, On the motion of the Cita xcELLoE. of the EXCHE QUER, it was e#rdered that an humble Address be pre sented to his Majesty, praying th.t he would be graci ous ly pleased to make good the deficiency of fees on Turnpike Bills, to the officers of the House. LONDON BRIDGE BILL. The House went into Committee on this Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the following r e solution—that the Commissioners of the Treasury be empowered to advance sums of money, on secu rity for repayment thereof, with interest, to the Mayor and Corporation of London, to enable them ti complete the ap proaches to London.bridge.—agreed. The nouse resumed.—Report on Monday. LAW OF ENTAIL, (SCOTLAND). Mr. KENNEDY moved that a Select Committee he ap ' pointed to consider and give effect to the recommendations contained in the report of the Select Committee on the taW of entail in Scotland, which was presented to tidal House on the 9th day of June last—Agreed to. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned (till Monday) at a Quarter to Twelve. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. FRENCH PAPERS. (Frym the Messager des Chambres of Feb. 25.) Pnats, Fxa. 24.—None of the German Journals which we ha"•e seen to-day say a word of the Theatre of VDar, or of what is passing in the East. The Aupsbnrgh Gazette, in expectation of the news which the first poet from Con stantinople will bring, appears to have exhausted the mine of reasoning commentaries and conjectures which it usually works. The Austrian Observer is dumb. The Prussian State Gazette speaks only of - schools at St. Petersburgh. Another Berlin Gazette repeats the last Russian Bulletins • which have been already published. The mortal remains of Lord Egerton, Earl of Bridge water, Prince of the Holy Roman Empire, set out this morning for Calais, in a hearse drawn by four horses. They are to be conveyed to England, to be delivered to the family of his Lordship. The body was accompanied by one of the executors of the deceased, by his Secretary, and Mr. Dyk, an English savant. -- - The Lord High Commissioner of the lonian Islands fre quently receives couriers from London. Six Greek vessels, under their national flag, entered the port of Leghorn on the 22d January, and others were expected. (From the Courrier Francais of Wednesday.) CZKANOWITZ, FEB. 6.—(PRIVATX COBRESPONDENCI.) —The Austrian authorities begin to show less to wards the Russians, and the Government has permitted the exportation of 20,000 chotwerts of oats, which have already passed the frontiers of Moldavia, but which have • been, truly, very dearly paid for. The idea that the Russians, at the opening of their se cond campaign; will enter Servia, is every day more con firmed. A bridge of boats, it is said, is to be formed above Widdin. The Turks are also assembling on that side some considerable fords, which some say amount to 50,000. By following that plan, the Russians might . turn the defiles of Shumla and the Balkan, of which they have extreme fear, and which the Turks consider as impregnable. (From the Constitutionnel of Wednesday.) PARIS, FEB. 25.—Naw POLITICS OF HIGH IIIPORT" ANCE.—We are assured that an offensive and defensive al liance between Russia and Prussia is definitively concluded ; it is added, that another Great Power, solicited to main thin an armed neutrality et•itla 100,000 men, has acceded to this proposition. It is also reported, that the army of the Mores, under the command of Marshal Maison, is to be increased to 25,000. This display of strength may enable him to restore Greece to her ancient limits, compre hending Attica, Beotia, Thessaly, and Epirus. This news may serve to explain to us the irascible tone of the agents of Great Britain against what they call Russia and her ad- bucks. That might still give us the tone of die military movements which are now going on in Piedmont. FRENCH FUNDS, PARIS, Fan. 25.—Rentes, Five per Cents., 110 f. sc. 10e. ; Three per Cents., 76f. 55e. 65c. Bank Actions, 1,815 f. ; Neapolitan Renter, Cert. Fate., 81f. 811. 20e. ; Royal Spanish Rented, 7 ; Royal Spanish Lean, 79s ; Interminable Spanish Annuities, 48 j 4 ; Hay tian Loan, 525 f, THE ARMY. MEMORANDUM. Horse Guards, Feb. 16. With a view to limit effectually the expense of mess and band subscriptions, and at the same time to provide for the proper maintenance of these establishments, the King has been pleased to command that the following regulations shall take place throughout the cavalry and infantry, the household troops excepted:— Thirty days' pay to be paid by each officer to the mess fund on appointment, and an annual subscription, under the discretion of the cominanding officer, but not ex ceeding eight days' pay, to be paid in support of moo contingencies. In all cases of promotion each officer to pay the dif ference on thirty days' pay, between the rank attained and that previously held. Twenty days' pay to be paid by each officer to tbb band fund on appointment, and an annual subscription, under the discretion of the commanding officer, but not exceed ing twelve days' pay, to be paid in support of the band . expences. In all cases of promotion the same rule to apply to al* band as that laid down for thee mess subscription. The regulated allowance to servants to be in future 2s. 6d. per week in the cavalry, and Is. (Id. i n the in fantry. No other subscriptions or charges upon any regimental officer to be considered imperative. In publishing his Majesty's pleasure to the Army upon subjects calculated so essentially to promote economy in the interior of regiments, and to relieve officers from extraor -- (Unary and unexpected expence, by the introduction of fixed and uniform scale, the General Commanding-in- Chief calls upon general officers in charge of districts, end commanding office: a of regiments and of reserve companies to give the fullest effect to these resolutions. By command of the Right Hon. General Lord Hill, Commanding in Chief, H. TAYLOR, Adjutant-General• IRISH ESTIMATE OF MARRIAGE FELT" CITY.—On the late trial for Crim. Con., in Dublin, tIJ brother of the plaintiff, who was examined as a witness , being asked if the plaintiff and his wife lived happily 0) gether, replied, that they seemed to him " to live as hellY as any couple of married people could live." DUBLIN, FEB. 25.—Our first Sergeant here, Lefroy, it is said has lost his coif, in consequence of the manner in which he expressed himself at the late Brno wick Meeting held in that city ; but I heard from almost indubitable authority that, if he has not as yet, the Govern" went had come fully to the determination of removing hilt' summarily. He will still hold his King's Counselsbip• The Learned Serjeant has oftentimes gone the Circuits when the going Judges were unable from illness or other wise. He hes realised a considerable fortune in his pro fession, and stands, therefore, completely independent Of the emolument, which is a mere trifle, as the office is only valuable for its giving precedence to the Bench when vacan cies occur.—Morning Paper. The Dublin Evening Post of Tuesday last. co ntains the following intortnation :—" We maderstat ea that the bulls of his late Holiness have arrived, raising th e Right Rev. Dr. Kelly, Bishop of Dromore, to be CO adjutor Roman Catholic Primate of Ireland, with righ ts of succession. His Lordship is to retain the Bishopric °f Dromore ad interim." The Dublin Freeman's Journal of Wedner day says'-- ,, We have been less accurately informed in the instance to which we now invite the attention of one readers, than we are admitted to have been since the coat' mencement of the present Session, if the following be 1 3 1. substantially, and, in some respects, verbally , an ana l y sis° the forthcoming Emancipation Bill, and the Bill which to he its sequel. The Bill will make all civil offices so cessible to Roman Catholics, save and except those of the President of the Council, the Lords Chancellors of Eng land and Ireland, the Lord Lieutenant, and the Cony mander-in-Chief. Roman Catholic Members of Partit' ment will he on the same footing as those of the Establishe d Church, save that upon questions relating to the liturgi and doctrinal points of that church they shall not hav e , power to debate or vote. This differs from the plan 0 ; Mr. Wilmot Horton, inasmuch as that plan excledg a 411 Roman Catholic interference, even in queations relatinf to the establishment, not only doctrinal, but temp oral and accidental. There will be an allowance for tV Roman Catholic clergy, which it will be disevetia o : ary with the Government to give or withhold , as cases 0' sappesed desert, or otherwise, may occur. The accept , ance of this stipend, or the rejection of it , will be op tion:kJ with the clergy themselves, It will be, in fact, an alloy/I ance durance boa placita. No Roman Catholic priest whose disaffection to the Government of those countries, satisfactory proof can be adduced, shall be permitted discharge the functions of prelate or titular bishop withie any part of his Majesty's United Kingdom. We W reason to believe that it will be prohibitory up m the Cr thol'c bishops to retain the episcopal title. Those tvi )° have read the pamphlet of Dr. Phillpotts, will, no doulAl trace the authorship of this provision. When the Bill, which a few days must convince the public that the 91 90 1 as an abstract, shall have received the R o y al assent, attotl4! i Bill, not concurrent with it, but totally disconnected, be brought in for the consideration of Parliament. Thy preamble of this Bill-will contain a case somewhat sitnilsJi to that of the Grampound Disfranchising Bil l . This be to the effect, that whereas the Clare and other Irio elections demonstrate the gross abuse of the 40s. frit: 3 j chime, it is advisable that the elective qual ification be fit at 20/. Again, say we, let the people of Inland look 14"