The Sun. — London, England, 1829-06-13 00:00:00

LUPERIAL PARLIAMENT.. . HOUSE OF LORDS.—(LAST NIGHT.) Upon the motion of Lord DURHAM, a message was ordered to be sent to the House of Commons, requesting Mr. Tennyson to be examined before the London Bridge Commitree. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY niade milar motion relative to Mr. Alderman Wood. The Irish Arms Bill, the Metropolis Justice of the Pe ee Bill, Commission of Charities, the Scot land Gaol, together with several other private Bills, ,were read a third tim' and passed. The East India Offices Bill went through a Co►-- rnittec. The petition of James Nettervillo, tskF, claiming the title of Viscount Nettervilic, Was referred to a Committee of Privileges. Mr. Scott, from the Chamber of London, pre• rented certain accounts relative to the funds of tire City of London, pursuant to an order of the House. ... - • NI - ALEXANDER GRANT and several other Mem bers of the House of Conimons brought up the Lambeth Road Lighting and Watching Bill, and the Lambeth Church Bill. Mr. Crater presented a Return relative to Coals. Mr. Palmer presented the Report of the Cern , niissioners of the Harbour of Shoreham, The Earl of GROSVENOR presented a petition from Wilts against bull-baiting,—Laid on the table. While the Noble Lord was on his legs he would take the opportunity of making a few observations 'relative to a subject of great importance, the serpty of water to the metropolis. The present existing Companies had taken no steps whater relative to this important subject. Whether their Lordships would be satisfied with the patronage which had been held out by Government for the formation of new cw.upanies be could not tell, but he trusted some steps would be taken for the purpose of enforcing the supply of better water to the metropolis. Lord TENTERDEN presented it petition from _Lord Carmichael, praying that measures might be taken to replace him in his situation of Paymaster of the Treasury. The Noble Lord considered the pe.• tition of great importance, and requested that it might be read at length. The Duke of WELLINGTON thought the re. tition unworthy of notice; but had no objection to its being laid on their Lordships' table. Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-LAST MOUT.) Sir R. WturtA3r took the oaths and his seat as Member for the borough of Wexford. A person from the West India Dock Company presented a enera 1 account of the rec e ipt s an d u p, plicaion of the revenue of that Company, PRIVILEGE OF MEMBgRS, Mr.I4I'LEOD stated, th:tt about three weeks , 7n ce he had received a summons to attend the Court of Common Pleas on a Jury ; he did not attend, and was, be believed, liable to be fined in conse quence. He placed himself under the protection of the House, and referred to the Report of the Committee of Privileges which sat last year to ascertain the bearings of the Act George IV. cap. 50., and quoted the case of a Member being tined under nearly the same circumstances, in 1658. In that case, the House directed the Speaker to write a letter to the Judge, claiming the privileges of the House. The Honourable Member cotreluded by moving, that Mr. Speaker be directed to write to the Judge in the present case, claiming the privilege as in the case he had mentioned. The SPEAKER wished to offer a few observa tions before that motion was submitted to the House. Nothing, in his opinion, was more calculated to lower the dignity of the House than to call in question that which was indisputable. He considered that the application of the Hon. Member was somewhat ptemsture, and it was certainly not analogous to the case-he had quoted. In that case the Hon. Mem ber hail actually been fined, while in this case the 11Onourttble Member only considered himself liable. He believed the Hon. Member would find that the House was sitting at the time the summons was served, and it had been settled that every Member was elempt from serving on juries during the Ses sion. If, therefore, the House agreed with him that the measure was not at present called kr, he trusted that the Hon. Member would consider the propriety of withdrawing his motion.—(Hear.) ' Mr. M‘LEOD had only introduced the motion for the purpose of .obtaining the advice of the House, and be had no objection to withdraw it.—Motion withdrawn. , Mr. ROBERT GORDON presented a petition against Sir Thomas Wilson's Estate Bill, now pass ing through the House. The Hon. Member said if the Bill passed, it would have the effect of causing buildings to be erected all over Hampstead Heath. After a few observations from Mr. STEWART and Sir CHARLES BURRELL, the petition was read, and ordered to lie upon the table. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Mr. Secretary PEEL moved that this liou3e, at its rising, do adjourn till Friday next. ATTENDANCE OF PROTESTANT SOLDIERS AT CATHOLIC CEREMONIES. Sir R. H. INGLIS presented a petition from the clergyman and others of Wainfleet, Lincoln, pray ing that Protestant soldiers might be emancipated from the obligation of attending at the processions and other ceremonies of Catholics in foreign coun tries, and also (as we understood) that two officers who were dismissed the service for refusing to sa lute at one of those festivals, might be recommended to the Crown for restoration to their rank. • Sir H. HARDINGE said, the case of those offi cers was not exactly as the Hon. Baronet had stated. They were stationed at Malta, and had been directed to fire a salute on the eve of one of the religious festivals of that island, but they refused, and the order was sent to the serjeant, who saw it executed. They then remonstrated in a very im proper wanner at having the order given to the ser jeant, and for their conduct in disobedience of orders, they were tried, and very justly, as it appeared to him, dismissed the service. What they were called on to do was not to join in any religious ceremony, but merely to pay that respect which British troops had always been accustomed to pay to the religion of the people amongst whom they happened to be stationed.—(Hear, hear.)—W hen our troops were in Portugal, this respect to the religion of each was paid by Catholic and Protestant soldiers, and it was not an unfrequent thing to see a battalion of Catho lics attending their religious worship in part of the field, and a battalion of Protestants assisting at theirs in another; and for two years that he was with the Prussian army in France, the soldiers, though nearly all Lutherans, were in the habit of tinning out to salute the Host. There was, he contended, nothing either idolatrous or inconsistent with Christian feeling to pay a respect to the re ligion of the .people amongst whom troops were stationed. Sir J. SEBRIGHT thought the case of those two officers was one which called strongly for a severe visitation; and he was glad that they had bee dismissed. Mr. TRANT agreed with the Hon. Baronet who preceded him, that a man was bound to obey the orders of his superior officer, but he differed from him as to his view of this case in foto. He had looked into this case, and he thought it one of ex treme hardship on those individuals who were dis missed, for he did not think it turned upon their not firing the salute on the eve of the festival. But why should our Protestant soldiers be called on to take a part in those superstitious ceremonies, and to violge their consciences ? Catholic soldiers had heretofore complained, and very justly if the allega tion were true, of being compelled to attend Pro testant service ; and he did not see why Protestants should not also, and with as much reason, com plain of being obliged to attend the religious wor ship of Catholics. This, he considered, called fur explanation. Sir H. 11ARDINGE said the objection of the Hon. Member was not well founded ; for he could state that no Protestant soldier was obliged to at tend Catholic worship, or to form part in Catholic processions, or other ceremonies, in Malta or the lonian Islands, or in any other part of the If a Catholic soldier should choose to 'near a torch, or take any part in ,tlr6o,it Ve:remonies, there could be no object t. 6 'his doing so; but no Protestant solditr Wns obliged to take any pail in them ; and ilia Hon. Member was wholly mistaken if he step= posed that any such regulation existed . Of our colonies, or in any plate !where aritish troops were stationed, I Sir R. 11. INGLIS, in looking over the papers connet;od With the case of the two officers, had te - o.lit the military orders directing the officer- to have saltnei fired on the occasion of particOlat fes - - tivals. The occasion on which thes'a offi . CerS were directed to fife Wa - s on the tire 'Of the l'es!i val of St. Lorettio, time patron saint of the island. The ()Meets 'cald liav no objection to.fire a salute at z ttfital 'aur on any given day; but when they wero told to fire it on the eve of the festival of tfrq saint, it was impossible for them not to or..neCt the act with a kind of worship of thal saint which they could not feel, and tail(' not therefore conscien tiously ciTe.r.• in that respect, then, the order was one which should not have been given, and which ti.mscientiously they could not obey. . . _ _ Mr. TRANT said, that in the course ef thfd next Session he would move for furthtt information on these orders, as they ok_lght to be inquired into. Sir H. HARVINGE would refer the Hon. Memo,Yer to the orders now in existence. They were what he had stated. There was no compulsion whatever to take any part in the procelsions i or in any of the religious ceremonies or tfitcse countries. The petition was then brought up and r e ad. O n the question thtkt it do lie en the table, Sir R. H. INGLIS understood the officers only remonstrated against being called upon to perform such an act. Sir H. HARDINGE said the Hon. Baronet was mistaken as to that fact ; they first refused to obey the orders, and when those orders were carried into execution by an inferior officer, they sent a very improper letter of remonstrance. In reply to what fell from the Hon. Baronet as to their conduct, he would stare, that if any officer under his (Sir H. Hardinge's) orders had refused to obey his orders, would bring him to a court-martial, and have him broke if possible.—(Hear, hear.)—What would the Hon. Baronet think of a Catholic soldier refusing to fire a salute on the sth of November from any al leged conscientious scruples ? Would he not think that a case where a man should be visited for dis obedience of orders ?—(Hear, hear.) Sir M. W. RIDLEY rose to protest against the doctrine laid down by the Hon. Member for Ox ford, with respect to the scrupulons feelings of offi cers, as in any way justifying their disobedience of orders. An officer had no right to consider the orders he received—his business was to obey them— his superior being responsible.—(Hear, hear.)—All he had to consider was, that they were not unlawful in themselves. The petition was ordered to lie on tile table. STATE OF THE COUNTRY. Mr. SADLER held in his hand a petition from the manufacturers and other inhabitants of Black burn, in Lancashire, which, from the great import ance of the subjects to which it referred, deserved the serious, anxious, and immediate attention of the House. The petitioners complained of the great distress in which they, in common with other ma nufacturing classes of the country, were involved ; and in any fair view which could be taken of the state of the country, it was impossible not to feel that the statement of the petitioners had been made out. He thought that it was the duty of Parlia ment to consider the allegations contained in this petition. He knew that it would be said that Par liament had no means of redress for the existing dis tress, and that therefore we ought to leave it to take its chance. But such was not the duty of the Legislature : on the contrary, the Members of the Legislature were bound to alleviate the distress of the country. The Hon. Member he►e read the pe tition, which, after drawing a lamentable picture of the general distress which pervaded every branch of industry, stated that the cure of this distress was, in the opinion of the petitioners, within the reach of legislative controul. The petitioners therefore en treated the House to cause an investigation to be made into the stagnation of trade under whicl► they suffered. Colonel SIBTHORPE supported the prayer of the petition, and regretted that Ministers should have advisep so early an adjournment of the House, in the present distressed state of the country. What had been done during the Session ? Nothing, but that foolish, detestable, and atrocious Bill, which gave emancipation to the Catholics. Within the last few days he had received documents from Ire land, corroborating the statements which he had for merly made of the arrogant, insolent, and ungrateful conduct of those who were, in his opinion, devils in• carnate,—he meant the Roman Catholic Priests. — (Roars of laughter.)—He would give the Howe a specimen of what they had done. [Here the lion. Member read a placard, headed " Education Society, to establish free schools for the moral instruction of the poor inhabitants of Ireland. Patron, his Grace the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin : Presi dent, Lord Cloricurry ;" arid then follows a tre mendous list of donations, headed again by his Grace the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin.] It would he. said that the Attorney-General for Ire land would inquire into the matter, and if it were found to be as he had stated it, would take the re quisite measures to stop such practices. Why hail he not stopped it already ? We ought by all means to prevent it, or people would ridicule them with jus tice for having brought in a Bill which would be a disgrace even to parish legislation.—(Hear, hear.) — It might be very pleasant for Members of that House to be walking themselves off to the sea-side, or to be going abroad into foriegn lands for their private amusement ; but he could not on that account ap prove of an adjournment at this season, for he did not see what right members of legislatu re had to en joy themselves in leisure, whilst all their constitu ents were involved in distress. His Majesty's Mi nisters might smile if they pleased at what he was -saying, but he regretted that they could not find a better opportunity for their smiles than when the distress of the country was under consideration. He hoped that Ministers would not recommend any ad journment of the House until they had given their most serious consideration to a petition so respect ably signed as that which had just been presented by his Honourable Friend the Member for Newark. Mr. BARING thought that the House had been unfairly .dealt with by the two lion. Gentlemen who had spoken upon this petition. The lion. Member for Newark had told them that the present distress of the country was capable of receiving a Parlia mentary remedy, but had not told them of what description that remedy was to be. if the Hon. Member for Newark had told them what remedy he had to propose, it might have been an inducement for them to have sat longer; but he had done no such thing. Mr. HUME agreed with the Hon. Members for Newark and Lincoln, that the people had a right to complain of the refusal of Ministers to take into con sideration, the general state of distress under which they laboured at present. It was too much to say, that Hon. Gentlemen should not mention the dis tress of the country to the House, unless they were prepared with some specific remedy to relieve it. He had himself followed the plan recommended by the Hon. Member for Callington, and he had not benefitted in the slightest degree by it. Taxation pressed heavily on the country—he had proposed to reduce it. Our system of corn laws rendered the price of food dear, and established a blockade against us—he had endeavoured to get rid of them. Various charges pressed heavily on our commerce—he had sought to diminish them ; and what was the result of his labours? Nothing,—absolutely nothing. It was the duty of his Majesty's Ministers, he con tended, to find relief for the distresses of the coun try ; and when such petitions as those now before the House were presented, it was not fair to turn upon those who presented them, and say, " You Must find a remedy far alein:' - ` The House was goin g adjourn without. having done any one thing to reduce the taxation of the country, to reform the Courts of Justice, or to introduce any one Bill to ameliorate the moral condition of the people, gruff though such was hotoriontly tho beSe, the aujourn. merit was to tAlhplasso tosO riianths . before the ordi nary nessiods—(Hear.)—He therefore agreed with the Hon. Members for Newark and Lincoln that the people of England had good grounds to complain that Government, which was hound to exinnine into their condition, wes wont to giVe the go-by to all the gat duties whiCh it bright to perfOrms Mr. BARING. and Mr. Sanntn e*!delinecl. Mrs WEBTERN esintbhded that inquiry into the Mate Of trio country was absolutely necessiry. An Hon. MEMBER said, that he was not inclined to join in the cry that either the House or the )14d vernmcnt was indifferent tO tt.;. distress of the country. Ho holed; however, that the House would "sot alloW things to go on much longer in their present condition ; for he really believed that the country was retrograding, and that all property was rapidly depreciating. Sir R. VYVYAN could not forbear front alluding to a fiat e ss- - -and rensiderhig the nature of the present Gos'erbtlabint, he was entitled to call it a fiat,— which had been issued by the head of the present Ministry. It would appear from that fiat, that he had given notice of his motion as a motion con. nected with the currency of the country. Now he had done no such thing, but he made no hesitation in aveting that he considered that the withdrawal of the one pound notes from circulation had pro duced a great effect in creating the existing distress. Distasteful as that doctrine might appear to Gentle men in that House, he knew that there were thou sands out of it %rhos fully agreed with him as to its correctness, persons who resided in all parts* the sountry, and some of them even in London itself. We have been told from 1797 to the present year, we have been going upon a false system of credit, and that we are only just now returned to a whole some state. We have been told that the state cur rency, by which he supposed was to be understood gold, and the paper of the Bank of England, was as extensive now as it was before 1797. Surely, surely, when the population had increased as it has done, and when its trade and commerce were stated to be so much extended, the same quantity of state cur rency was not deemed sufficient for the present year, as was deemed sufficient for 1797 ? lie was afraid, that if it bad riot been for the false system of credit, as it was now the fashion to call it, the laurels of Salamanca, and of Vittoria, and even of Water loo, would never have been the meed of those who now wore them ; and that even Great Britain her self would not have been the country which he was still proud to say she was. He was con vinced, that if it had not been for the system of credit, we should have been in a very different situa tion even from that in which we were now placed. It was not his intention to have entered into this question on the present occasion. If he conceived that the session would last another month, he would renew his former notice of [Potion; nay, if he were certain that the House would sit only 1-1 days longer, he would undertake, if a Committee were granted him, to prove that a cause for our national distress existed, and that a sufficient remedy might be applied to it by Parliament. He had never pledged himself to state what the nature of that remedy was; all he had said was, that a remedy might be found fol. it. You may look to the causes of the distress for a remedy; but it is too much to suppOse that any individual can point out what that remedy is, when so many eases are stated for that distress. In fact, in trade at present there was ge nerally no profit; and without meaning to stick per tinaciously to any particular remedy, he confessed he saw no hope of improvement but by some.ause 'jointed system of paper currency, which, by supply ing the public exigencies, would revive _trade, and give it the same auspicious advantages under which this country had heretofore flouriAel He was himself perfectly disinterested in this suggestion, for be was not in any way connected_ with the country bankers, of the abuse of whom he wished to say one word, although he had no earthly connection with one of them. That country bankers might have been often actuated too much for their own indi vidual advantage he could easily believe, but he also knew that they had been eminently serviceable to people in trade generally. In 1824 and 1825, when the country wal, deluged with bank -notes, there were no complaints against them : then there was no accusation of their mode of conducting busi ness. On the contrary, nothing was talked of but the general prosperity, which nobody lauded higher than the Chancellor of the Exchequer. But at the end of 1825, when some banks stopped payment, through over-issues, and when a run upon them became so general, that there was no knowing who could have weathered the storm had the panic lasted many days longer, then it was that the cry against country ibankers was raised, and it was that their whole system was suddenly and impetuously denounced. With reference to the present state of things, all he would ask was, was it decorous in Parliament to separate without an inquiry into the distress which was so generally pressed upon them by petitioners ? Should it be said that those who were selected by the greatest nation in the world to guide their affairs, were ready to overlook inquiry, and abandon their legislative functions ? They had been told both by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Peel), who had admitted the prevailing . distress, that the vessel of the State was not permanently injured, but would soon right herself. Why not prove how this could be done in a Committee of Inquiry ? As far as in him lay, he had sought that inquiry, nor was he responsible because the opportunity was denied him. Every day his notice stood on the paper three weeks ago, and lie could not bring it on : then came Easter week, when he was plainly told that gentlemen could not be brought to relinquish the sports of the field to attend the vital interests of their country. He hoped his forebodings from the present signs of the times would prove erroneous; but if they were afflicted with the visitation -of a bad harvest, if gold continued to be exported, and if the country were left at the mercy of a 51. Bank note circulation merely, then he feared a concate nation of circumstances would precipitate a crisis upon the kingdom, the issue of, which rielnust be' a bold man who could contemplate without dis may.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Secretary PEEI. could not help thinking that the presentation of a petition afforded a most inconvenient occasion for the discussion of such subjects as those which had been introduced ; and, therefore, that it would not be expedient on his part to enter into a lengthened consideration of those subjects. He was bound, however, to say that the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Cornwall, was by no means responsible for not having brought forward the motion on the state of the country of which he had given notice. He (Mr. Peel) regretted very much that the . Hon. Baronet had not had an oppor tunity of making his motion ; and he believed that the failure in making a House on the day appointed was entirely accidental. It had certainly been out of the Hon. Baronet's power to submit his motion to the House on any subsequent day. With respect to Epsom Races, he could assure the Hon. Baronet, ca th u at sc he wi ( ly M t i h % e House Peel had never alle ge d t h em as a should not transact public business. Nay, it happened oddly enough that the House was engaged on one of the prin cipal days of those races in the discussion, on a petition, of subjects similar to those on which the present conversation was taking place, up to so late an hour as four o'clock in the morning.— The Hon. Member for Lincoln had entirely misap prehended him (Mr. Peel), if he supposed that it was his intention to laugh at the questions of so serious a nature. He hoped that he was the last person in the world to treat such questions with levity or ridicule. The fact was that he had mis taken the object of the Hon. Member for Lincoln, and had thought that he intended to make a humo rous speech.—(A laugho—.He waa far from deny ing the existence of distress. In many parts of the country ; distress waS Severe, and was acemn. panied by great privation and suffering, and ho deeply. regretted it. Particularly in the district from which the petition had been prevented by the Horn Met to proceeded was the distress great. He doubted, indeed, if any other part of the kingdom had suffered so much from the effect which the in troduction of machinery had had on the hand-looms of the weavers, as that district. --It was impossible to look at the efforts of the population in that district to live; and at the imidequacy of their wages; without painful commisseration.— But he (Mr. Peel) very mulch feared, that while the existence of severe distress was admitted; it must also be admitted that in the Complicated relations of society it With impossible to apply a satisfactory remedy. He Was convinced that on Mature reflection the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Cornwall, would see that the solution of a rmehe inatical problem was a thing entirely different from the administration of practical relief in a case such as that in question. Those persons must not be supposed to be indifferent to the distress, who were adverse to the pulley of entering upon the enquiry tecommended by the other side of the House. They felt that unless they could be pretty confident that such an enquiry would be productive of a satisfac tory result, it might aggravate the evil which it was intended to diminish. The Hon. Member for Aber deen had dedared that there Were at least two sub jects which ought to be fully investigated before the separation of Parliament—namely, the Corn Laws, and the question of Emigration. Now, really, if there were any two topics which during:the last four years had occupied 'the attention of Parliament more than any others, they were precisely those which the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had described as demanding enquiry. The Corn Laws the Honourable Member for Aberdeen had himself brought under the consideration of the House but a short time ago, when Idle subject was fully discussed. The Hon. Member had himself made a speech on the occasion which lasted three hours and three quarters, and to which he (Mr. Peel) had listened with great attention. The Hon. Member's propo sition was to substitute a fixed duty on foreign corn for the present scale of duties; but the House did not agree with him on the subject. Constant fluc tuations on such a subject were most injurious. What advantage could accrue to the country, if, on every question such as that of the Corn Laws, the legislation were never allowed to be settled even for a single year? Having made an experiment respect ing it last year, was it desirable for the House to pledge itself to enter into an enquiry on the subject next year ? Were such questions to be always at the mercy of any man who chose to get up and agi tate them, and propose that they should be un settled ? If, whenever distress existed in any parti cular place—distress attributed to machinery, or the importation of foreign wool, or the system of corn laws—an enquiry was immediately demanded, there would be an end to all confidence, and no one would venture to embark his capital in any commercial en terprise. He must protest, however, against an un willingness to enter into such enquiries being consi dered as an insensibility to distress. With respect to the existing distress, he must say that he did not take so gloomy a view of the subject as some Hon. Gentlemen seemed disposed to take. He could not allow that the capital of the country was daily di minishing. Still less could he allow that our com merce was carrying on by the application of capital from which the capitalist received no return. Such might be the case for a single year; but when he heard the same thine•stated fur eight or ten years, his answer was, that under such circumstances the capital would be withdrawn. Against the allegation that the capital for the country had diminished, he would state one strong fact. In the year 1815 (a period when the currency of the country was increased by a piper circulation), the rental of the county of Lancashire was valued, for the purpose of determining the con tributions to the .county rate. That valuation was, 'he believed, perfectly fair. By some persons, how ever, it had been considered unfair, and another valuation had taken place last year for the same pur pose. The valuation of the rental on land and on the manufacturing establishments of Lancashire, in 1815, amounted to three millions. Last year the valuation, although the improvement in the currency would have a tendency to diminish the nominal amount, was four millions. That fact he opposed to the statement that the manufactures and the agriculture of the country were carrying on at a positive loss. He repeated, however, t hat he did not deny the ex istence of distress—distress occasioned by the un equal distribution of wealth, by the improvements in machinery, by the progress in mechanical skill, and by many other and complicated causes ; but he was persuaded that any attempt to legislate with respect to them would only have the effect of aggravating the evil. Mr. ATWOOD would not enter into the ques tion of whether the existing distress had or had not been exaggerated; but of this he was sure (and he would appeal for the truth of the declination to every lion. Member who was conversant with the subject), that the present condition of all the great branches of our trade and manufactures was such, that they could not be sustained for five years longer and were, in fact, rapidly verging to destruction. When that situation of the capitalists of the coun try was considered, in combination with the situa tion of the millions of labourers who depended upon those capitalists for employment, the contemplation was an awful one. He did not impute blame to one Member or another, for not having brought the sub ject forward ; but he thought that its not having been brought forward was a reproach to the House of Commons itself, and a proof that it was an inef ficient body, and incompetent to discharge the great duties of legislation. With the elements of pro sperity which this country possessed in its capital and in the industry of its population, why should these things be ? Under any circumstances, the House of Commons ought to have relieved itself , from the imputation of being their cause. Mr. HUSIUSSON said, in every word which had fallen from his Right Hon. Friend with respect to the principle which ought to influence the House in the institution of any solemn inquiry into the state of the country, and also with respect to that state, he fully concurred. He could not agree with the Hon. Member for Cornwall that the state of our fore4m.trade was no criterion of the growth of our industry. It was too much, when it was proved that there was no diminution in our foreign trade or navigation, to turn short and deny the importance of the fact, and allege that our ships were sent to sea merely because they would rot if they were not kept afloat. He would tell the Hon. Member for Cornwall, however, that there was evidently a great increase even in that part of our trade which that lion. Baronet seemed alone to value—the home trade. There was undoubtedly a great improvement in agriculture, both in this country and in Ireland. Yet we continued to import corn. What could that arise from but an increase of consumption ? and that increased consumption could proceed only from an increase in the home demand for our manufac tures. The Honourable Baronet asserted that our merchants sent their ships to sea, because they thcught it better that they should be afloat than rotting in harbour. But it was unfortunate for the Hon. Baronet's argument that more new ships were building than ever. According to the Hon. Baronet, the ship-builders must be labouring under some strange delusion, to go on building ships at a period when the owners of the ships already built were losing by them. But, as his Right Hon. Friend had justly observed, it was impossible that these com plaints, which had been thus continued for 13 or 14 years, could be well-found e d ; or t h e country cou ld not go on at all. It was the same in France. •Trade' and manufactures there were represented to be in great distress. But new works, new roads, and other evidences of the benefits which a country derived from being in a state of peace and protection, were manifesting themselves in every quarter. In his opinion it was not in the power of an honest Legis lature to apply a remedy to the existing evil; and the remedies which he. had heard mentioned were, he thought, calculated to aggravate that evil, and - I. ultimately to involve t country in a convulsion of property, and even, perhaps, in a convulsion of her institutions. Mr. MAXWELL strongly recommended that the taxation on the necessaries of life should be dimi nished, and a tax laid on property. Sir G. PHILLIPS deprecated the idea of intro ducing a paper currency in Manchester. He saw no signs of a depreciation of capital, and saw every pros= pct of a relief to the country in the opening trade to the East Indies. General GA S COYNE supported the petition, and expatiated upon the general distresses of the country. Mr. D. WHITTLE HARVEY could not pos sibly sufftir the present opportunity to pass of ex pressing his sentiffients upon What was tt very mate rial feature in the inclinations of the House upon this subject. The House had expressed its opinion, and they had been reiterated in discussions, and against them he now felt it is duty to enter his pro test. Every individual in the House was prepared to admit the existence of extreme distress more or less modified, yet no remedy could be assigned—no remedial or palliative measure whatever could be devised with which the House would concur. It was idle to pretend that the country demanded in quiry. Petitions and motions for inquiry were a fal lacy. The country demanded no inquiry; it had had inquiry enough, and if the House had not ar rived at a conviction of the causes of the existing distress and its remedies, all he could say was that there was not a man in England out of the House —not a man of common sense or common ho nesty,—who was not convinced, and thoroughly convinced. The sense in and out of the House were distinct. The whole country demanded a diminution of taxation, and a mutation of its nature.—(Hear, hear.)—He would maintain, that it was an absolute impossibility for the country to go on under the pressure of a war scale of expenditure —a weight of taxation, and with a contracted peace currency. It was absolutely necessary for Ministers to do one of two things. NVas it posSible that they Could say that the expences of Government could Hot be carried on under the enormous sum of seventeen or eighteen millions per annum ? This would outrage the sense of the country, and it would be to deny the experience of all other coun tries as well as the history of their own. The House had been told that the Finance Committee was to explore the resources of the country with a view to relieve its burthens. The whole country had been led to entertain sonic hopes of this Finance Committee, and those hopes had been strengthened by the fair manner in which it bad been selected. It had been composed of gentlemen of all parties, and of all sentiments—of persons intimately ac quainted with finance, and who possessed the con fidence of the country. But what had been the re sult ? The Government had rendered its labours nugatory, and at last, after all the expectations of re lief, the country found the Committee was suppressed. He wss surprised that the Hon. Member for Aber deen (Mr. Hume) bad not divulged to the House the causes of the failure of that Committee. Such an exposure would have surprised the country after it had been induced to believe that the Committee must eventually lead to many substantial and prac tical benefits The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite the Member for Liverpool (Mr. Huskisson) had said that every remedy which hail been proposed for the evils of the country was pregnant with mischief, and a road to the subversion of the institutions of the country. Under this excessive apprehension for the institutions of the country the people were to see every valuable institution perverted, invalidated, or in its essence destroyed. Was the country to be told by the Right Hon. Gentleman that it was at the maximum of taxation ?—(Hear, hear.)—lf so, why did the Right. Hon- Gentleman support the ap pointment of the Committee; and why did he lead the country into such expectations from its labours ? Petitions were presented to the House for a return . . to a paper currency, for a repeal of the Corn Laws, fur a metallic currency; but he only wished that the country would see its own interests, and combine towards one great uniform object—a system of rigid economy. Some complained of the Poor Laws; for his part, he slid not see why the tithe system should not be revised. It could not be concealed, that when any measure was brought forward in that House which had for its tendency a diminution of expellee, all who could Teak about the Corn Laws, or make long speeches about - the currency or the silk trade, walked out of the-House or opposed it. He was astonished'at the plea urged against this pe tition—that it was too late in the Session to do good upon such subjects. Was it too late to do good ? He could say that it was not too late in the Session to do evil.—(Hear, bear.)—Within a few days a Bill of the most objectionable nature had been carried through the House. He alluded to a Bill which was in itself of the most objectionable nature, and its object was to support the Worst parts of a Court which was the greatest infliction upon the country. He alluded to the Ecclesiastical Court Bill. When private interests were to be promoted, no period of the Session was too lute; but when any great measure for the relief of the country was to be pursued, the pretence was, that the Session was too fur advanced to do any good. It was only by the people coming to the House unanimously for the re duction of taxes that any good could be effected. Mr. SADLER explained. Mr. MABERLY considered the Government pledged to carry on the reforms which they had taught the country to expect from the Finance Committee. Mr. ROBINSON said, that owing to what had been stated relative to the shipping interest, he had provided himself with certain tables which he would read to the House.—(The Hon. Member proceeded to read a short numerical statement of the shipping employed in Great Britain.) Mr. P. THOMSON did not mean to defend the statements of the Right lion. Gentleman ; but the Hon. Member opposite had really not done justice to them when he referred only to the number of ships, and not to their tonnage. The amount of tonnage engaged was the best criterion of the state of the shipping interest. He knew that interest laboured under disadvantages; but while there con tinued to be new ships built, and capital employed in the building of them, he must say it was a proof that the statement that capital could not be em ployed on ships, with the chance of obtaining a re turn, was unfounded. The petition was ordered to be printed:— • Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from the cotton weavers of Wigton, in Cumberland, complain ing of distress. The petitioners stated that they were compelled to work for fourteen hours a day, and could only obtain, at an average, ss. or 6s. per week for their labour. _ Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Master, Wardens, and Corporation of Cutlers in Allerton, respecting the trade to India. Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from certain inhabitants of the City of Glasgow respect ng the administration of justice in Scotland, and complaining that in the course of certain criminal proceedings the Courts had gone into the investiga tion with closed doors. Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from a number or persons who had been educated at the College of Clonbroose, in the county of Kildare—a College which was under the direction of Jesuits. This petition might to have been presented by him while the Bill which had recently passed had been in progress through the House. It contained the strongest testimony of the tiaiform good conduct of the tutors at that College—of their fidelity to their Sovereign—their attachment to the Constitution— to their excellent principles, moral and religious, and their respect for the laws. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE IN INDIA: Air. BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Refugees for Debt in Chandernagore, in ,he Presidency of Bengal, praying for an alteration of the Law of Debtor and Creditor. He observed that since this petition had been signed, an Act had been passed which be believed, to a certain de gree, adopted the recommendation in the petition. Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition from Mr. .antes Craigden, who co'mplained hal ll / 1 5 been refused a license as a victualler for a house NO: . Vauxhall. Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition fit Mr. Valentine Blake, formerly a Member of th" e i House for the town of Galway, complaining a b e inadequacy of the Bill for the regulation of the toll_ of Galway, and praying Parliament to give t o tur t Chamber of Commerce, and to a reasonable nui nbe , of the inhabitants of that town, a concurrent joi e diction with the Magistrates. Mr. BROUGHAM presented a petition trd ij i l Mr. James Forrester, of Brampton, in Cumber ls! " complaining of ninny local and personal grievan ce ' in the collection of the poor's rates. The o° l3 i Member then observed, that being in possession .°- the House, he would mike this opportunity of . „ r " reeling a misapprehension of what had fallen filr; him on a late occasion with respect to the Fonfi d 'Ll Hospital. His authority was extremely srui.ll; -uu , as he underutood it had been referred to on a cetica of the opinions lie was supposed to have delivel he wished to correct the error. He was stiPrt to have complained of those who had the recll n g f merit of the Foundling Hospital, on account of tbei having deviated from the original intention .Bcd'''; stitution of the charity, and to have urged 010 1 . 0 recur to its original plan, and to restore it t°, original character of a FoUndling Hospital. 1 1 ° t this was not only not what be hail stated, but J: the reverse of what he had stated ; for he was fully convinced, that in having acted as the truste7 i of that charity had done, they had converted from what would have been, in the present state things, a positive public nuisance into a signal be fit. If it had been continued on its original tution, it would not have deserved the name c'," charity ; for though its intention was benevolent, it: operation Would hare been •most hurtful. 0.. Foundling Hospitals of Dublin and London per their venire little better than public nuisances, would have been most injurious if the trustees, (tu fi r a a blind wish to adhere to the letter rather than follow the spirit of the charity, had not madethl alterations which the change of circumstances J!,. • rendered necessary. Instead, therefore , it of Jamerl that they had made those changes, he had emirr his wish that other institutions had the same po7. to deviate from the course first adopted. The 007, take of what he had said had. given Orribragetst°; many worthy persons who had been educated ct to Foundling Hospital, and who regretted tha t person should entertain an unfavourable opinion of 1 .: Another misapprehension which had occur redWiO re ; Bard to what he had said, was, that he was.a - r, , enemy of infant schools, and in some parts of the 07 011 tiy his name had been used as one of their 1: ponents. Now it did so happen, that he wag, ° , ; .: of those persons who had first established theillL er • He remembered when his Hon. Friend the for Midhurst, and another Hon. Friend (Mr. P'" t /' who was not a Member (he wished he was), ' l 4 r the Marquis of Lansdowne, Lord Deere, and ; Macauley, had spent a whale day in a di s cussico Ol v to that name they should give a school which t h at had assisted in establishing within 1.50 yards °t o House, and after much pains therdeterMine, adopting the name of " Infant School." H eO -4; dotted this to show that he could not be an ene01,..d .: these schools, and to show how completely be been mistaken. General GASCOYNE moved for Returnsi' l 7j_, every Seaport, of the Number of VEssels nrivigweee by Steam, their Tonnage, and whether they IY . !:';‘' employed in the Coasting or the Foreign Trade' 4 4 ' Mr. LEN HARD gave notice of his • triren!i ol , - ; bring the subject of Patent InVeattiena consideration of thillianie early in the next Sel'aff- 7 4 ' Mf ' llUME presented a petition from • Kelly, of Clipstone-street, comp] fining of The s . ,E 0 of the Law in Ireland. The petitioner l itated,l7l, in 1820 he lent to the Governor of the couillY Kerry, who was also Custos Rolulo r um, Rod Gott of Militia in that county, a sum of 3001., and not having received - payment in the manner' then stipulated, he had commenced an action agabig_ i l l 7,. debtor inid had recovered a v e r di c t, an d tliat - eXec:: lien had been issued upou - thejudgMent„ the peculiar manner in which the .Sheriff was sitit ted, the o ffi cer had not been able to execute U"' process, for that be had been kept at bay and ll° - unable to approach the castle of the individii against %dim] the process was directed. The (P e , Lion was one of importance, - because, if the precr s of the common law was not executed, the coign • must be in a very bad state. The petitioner o'7, . complained to Mr. Secretary Peel, and the Drltirl e Wellesley bad instituted an investigation into matter, but the result had not been communiat,';; to him; and lie now prayed that there might be i, further inquiry into the subject, or that the 0 01 . 1 4 : would give him such relief as they might thin [ meet. Mr. V. FITZGERALD presented Papers fee cne of the Protectors of Slaves and others, the measures adopted by the Government for amelioration of the: condition of the Slaves. , et o Mi. EASTHOPE presented a petition l' oe tt some of the claimants on Spain, statinobeirlf t be l that measures were about to be adopted, betweell two Governments for compromising-the a nsouttij: their claims ; and if that were the case, they wi o f to lay before the House some of the particulal4, their case. They stated, that although the lo r i, now refused to recognize their claims, a large e to tion of the money they had advanced on the , the King and the Cortes had been applied to to personal expenses of the King, and that four milli b e,. of it had been employed in liquidating the old de l , E Sir T. FRMANTLE gave notice of th e i be tention of his Noble Friend, the Member for t he comity of Buckingham, to move an alteration in Game Laws, in the early part of next Session. e. Mr. ROBINSON moved for certain rettirnt; c f. % netted with the Trude of Newfoundland and brador. • Mr. HUME moved for an account of the: r i r penses and Charges in the case of Briscoe V. roe, in the Court of Arches and Court of Delegr7: distinguishing the items. sit 4 Dr. LUSHINGTON did not intend opP ° „ t ; the motion, provided the returns could be made °. but he doubted that it could be conveniently Ile did not pretext' to deny that abuses e siste r ,. the Court alluded to by the Hon. Member fec Ar ent Been, but it should be remembered that theii„.‘ l n is abuses in the Court of Chancery, the Courtbf D-z o y Beuch,,and the other Courts of Law. It was to point out those abuses, but it was not easy to; ) a remedy for them. Mr. PERGUSSON opposed.the motion. Sir C. FORBES expressed a hope that t he f Member for Aberdeen, seeing that 'the - settle t House was against him, would, .for the Pm withdraw his motion. After a few words from Mr. TRANI' and fi r ' DAWSON • e 1.4 Mr. HUME observed, that, in making 0 115 dot tion, he meant HO attack upon any proctor, or f e o l ; individual—his object was to expose the or with a view to its correction. The motion was then put and • d came ~0611 Mr. HUME had another motion to pr°Y t r which, however, it was not his intention w 4 bio against the inclination of the lion. Member an of of , Learned Friend, as he had not given him nut' c ; or, it; it was a return of the items of a ohki r g - 0 , 3381. 18s. lad., together with a further char? • 431. O. 30., made by Messrs. Toiler and Su"' u r t of proceedings in the Court of Delegates and Cuti Appeals, in the case of Pemberton and Evan s el' Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the Partle,sitle lulled to had undertaken to conduct the cU- 4 1' fi t ► th e oat a shilling profit ; and the money charge° bill was actually rianiey out of pocket. 111 r. HUME was still anxious for an inquirP the - After a few words from Mr. D. GitAtt34l, motion was put and carried. LONDON UARBOUR BILL. • 01 4 On the motion of Mr. Alderman W°°'" Lords' Amendments to .the London Harbour were read and agreed to. FEES IN TUE KING'S BENCH- „,/ Colonel •SIBTHORPE, in the *blocs v'