The Sun. — London, England, 1829-03-07 00:00:00

m ay be silenced, but still the direst agitation may exist and measure of the Union of this country with Ireland ; and, i °1 7 64 "---(Cheers.)—Will they still let the tribunals of if I may be allowed te es. the -tee, it is inserting Ireland h e open ?If they will, then still will there he the key-stone int,• it -•itet 1. • chew and safety Open a theatr e for agitation.—(Hear, hear.)—A father of the empire--(( it. , • He. ) se. it will ulc teore togs his action into Court : it is for the seduction of hie than this; it will eat: (Su- rice of let: ton— t . ceot ute:- daughter -ea circum s t ance w h o ll y d omest i c , an d apps- ti ngu i s h t h e see d s „; belieue—and, slitielif Ist:age envy _dlrently unconne c t e d w i t h any t hi ng pu bli c ; b ut no sooner enterta i n any l ur ki ng : tope ei witnessing, through this "lee ote it make its appearance, than it is taken up as a peli- diem, the downfall of liritich greatness, it will be uu terly "cal case, and the streets of the capital are crowded with destroyed.—(Continued cheers ) TelaGns takin g a f ever i sh i nterest in the decis ion. —(Hear, The Earl of UXBRIDGE said, that thoagh he had lis tear.)—An Irish Magistrate summons a rioter or a man tenet) to the whole of the Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. , an aelatilt to app ear b e f ore hi m ;i n hi s o ffi c i a l capac i ty P ee l' s ) speec h , h e h a d not gat h ere d from i t any suf fi c i ent i ne eith er takes or refuses bail for his appearance; lie may reasons for the Right Hon Gentleman's change of opinion. Plrve decid e d r i ght or wrong ; but whichever w a y it may A great many Hon. Gentlemen had stated their intention Ire, (Hit o ccas i ons a discussion °of the Catholic Question early in the Session of being waiter,: for this measure, in es s i e '• h ear) and a laugh.)—l s the lion. Gentleman order that they might learn what new securities it was the f ri rant that if his ine a sur e _W s unexp l a i ne d measure, ' i n t en ti on o f G overnmen t t o propose; t h ose H on . G ent l emen efr ' k liere, I must call it--( a laugh)—sh o uld h a ve the now saw that there was nothing additional for the security .t ect of sh utt i ng up the doors of the Catholic Association, ! of the Protestant Church, and he therefore hoped, that all itt will still leave open the door of every Catholic Chapel those who hail been wsiters would vote on his side of the Ir e l and. —(Cheers.)—Doe s lie believe that there is no ;' question.—(A laugh.) Popular Priest ready to ascend the pulpit in such a cauee, 1 Sir 11. VIVIAN was desirous of stating to the Hous e th e ocarthat he will b e li stene d to with the less attention, be- I grounds on which he had formerly opposed the Catholic i se h e di rec t s one hand towards the silent orators of the Claims, and was now of opinion that they ought to be au,lation, their while with th e ot h er h e po i nts to the altars of grante d. Th ose w h o b est k new bi as— hi s own ft iends in common faith, which are also the emblems of their that House, and his constituents who had placed him in c- o suffering.—(Hear, h ear. ) —S i r, i t i s nut the Ca- t h at House— would bear hint out in the assertion, th a t i t holic Association—it is not this manor that—upon whom had always been with the greatest reluctance that he bail _ t : e queetion d epen d s. D estroy the individual+ as often as voted against the Roman Catholics, not only because it gave U please,. and others will as often spring up in their him pain t o place any disabilities on so large a body of his or if the Association itself be destroyed, other Majesty's subjects, but because, as a soldier, he had had tele_hes of agitation will be opened. Fur these things there many opportunities of witnessing the conduct of those Cee anlderit tine remedy —one complete, all-sufficient remedy— tliolics wh o had joined the army, and knew the prodigality ver t that which the wiedon and prudence of the Go- with which they had always been ready to shed their blood the n s m ov en e % ig an n ul the gracious kindness and condescension of in the defence of their country. For these reasons it was there ar have proposed.—( Hear, hear. )—At length with reluctance that he hail voted heretofore against the con -1.,w8 to he afforded to the Catholics of Ireland equal cession of their claims, but having early been taught to be jert_. an' privileges with the rest of his Majesty's sub- lieve that the duty of the Catholics obliged them to entice ' 1. le Catholic Association will be extinguished your to establish the supremacy of their own religion, and it is traneferred to this House.—(Cheers.) —Bring that the Protestant Establishments of this country were it here! Let us our matte 1 graft their wild and e"ergetic shoots on leagued with the best interests of the nation, he had been shann;if.rui(tr. of (g and nurtured English stock, and rely upon it, unwilling to consent to their admission into power, more Which it willproduce we need not be especially as he was aware that it had been openly stated . . . . cus,ir peen the course of this ells- in the Catholic Association that emancipation wes not all it hat,hgeirveeliiias mien a phrase so inappropriately used they looked to, but that, when that was conceded, it would that me a di s gu s t towards a rallying word be followed up with ulterior measures. If Catholic: eman- L hi h 1 believe would never h ave b een o di ous S uc h, c ip a ti on w a s a ll th a t h a d b een requ i re d, b e did nut h es i tate c °,ever, i s now the case in my mind, owing to the app!;- to say that he would have voted for it at a fiwnier period— st7.ltiri that h as b een made of it. I allude to the Consti.. (hear, hear)—but when ulterior objects were talked of— _r, t ion of 1668.—(Hear.)----Now, Sir, as a lawyer—as a when they openly declared that it was their purpose t o en - A s raon who has studied to some extent the history of my deavour to do away with tithes, and what they called the r cou ntry ---as a man who has examined what has been " horrible" Union of Ir e land with this country, he had g e d on all sides—l cannot b e i gnorant o f t h e outl i ne at certa i nly o bj ecte d to g i ve t h e Cathol i cs any power which east of what has taken place on this subject; but I must might enable them to forward such views. —(Hear, hear.) Conies that lamat a loss to understand what the Hon. —lt was now, however, impossible not to see that the ",t, ?dien s who are so warmly opposed to the Catholic time was come, when it was necessary to do something; p`'iltae, mean by the Constitution of 1688. The great the Hon. Member for Aldborough (Mr. F. Clinton) had ure.ieiples of o ur C onst i tut i on may he traced back for cesa. talked about fear and intimidation ; but he (sir H. Vi v i an ) ~ les previ ous to t h e R evolution of 1688—(hear)—, and, would venture to assert that no such feeling had any til u eed, I may say that many of its features are as old as weight with the Ministry in the adoption of the present .e,c o mmon law itself. What, Sir—limited monarchy— measure.—(Hear, hear.)—lf the Hon. G en tl eman , b y n e gut of petition—law of et imertehlent of ton fear, ent oncession oeing demanded at the point of the told re—trial by jury—haberts o corpus Act ; n am I b e bayons m a i t his c answer was, that not ten thousand hayonees Revolution we owe a ll t h ese bl ess i ngs to t h e per i o d o f t h e ghoul wrest e d it f rom hi m ; but if he m e ant a f ear ? No, Sir, in the year 1688 , it is true that to witness the unhappy state of Ireland that must follow we _ t i on h " a great Revolution carried into effect—a Revolt- upon rebellion, he was ready as a man, and still more as a port : ich established principles of great and vital im- Christian, to adroit that he did feel that fear.—(Hear.)— inalienneciel:lewhilei r l ed e i i t tai e;tin lashed the absurd doctrine of an But the Noble Lord (Uxbridge) who had spoken, had said, right g of succession —(hear, hear); that in his opinion, the Right Hon. Secretary of State lure to established of opinion. What! r — iet i i n es sh ; r ro t v i i t de, the absolute right of the Legisla- had given no reasons for a change every instance, and under all the va- did the state of Ireland afford no reason? Did the po -Beut of circumstances, for the happiness, welfire, and verty and misery of that country effete] no reason? Did efe ity of the nation.—(Hear.)—lf I understand the the state of excitation that pervaded the whole island af .,y,J et at all, Sir, that is the rights way to read the his- ford no reason.—(Hear, hear) ?—But ail this they were eYitthe Revolution of 1688 ; and I will, therefore, take told was nothing, and they were referred to the occur st:rty of telling Hon. Gentlemen, if they he religien- rences of 1798, to show that it wa s on l y necessary to put that they quote the Bill of Ri g hts a s th e Devil quotes forth the strength of England to put down rebellion in i si e Ipture--(eho u t s o f laughter);—or I will tell them, if Ireland. But in answer to that he would ask, was there iZt a Y be lawyers, that they c it e t h e case o f th e R evo l ut i on any man th a t r e ferr e d to th e events o f 179 S w i t h a f ee li ng cot Weak and i gnorant J u d ge who, startled by a pre- of satisfaction—(Cheers) ?—Let them look to the dreadful for ll th t which h e d oes not understand, makes use of it loss of life that took pl ice at that period ! Besides whieb, tb s Purpose of defeating justice and of violating had not the Catholic Question gained ground since then— (Re'l'erY Principl e f rom w hi c h i t took i ts or i g i n.— (H ear , h ear ) ? — H on. G ent l emen m i ght exclaim , that it an sf a t r ' h ear, hear.).e...But, Sir, now let me turn to was only necessary for England to put forth her arm to part of the 0 ,,„ subject: the Hon• Gentleman had crush oppositionhe would answer them in the word s plaint o f the surprise which had been practised of their immortal bard : pm... l 'a ' . nation , an d h a d i mplored time for the purpose of "'Ti s exce ll ent to h ave a g i ant ' s strength, c 4 l g further p et i t i ons from the country against the But perilous to use it like a giant." t h e le n Claim s , as if there were something premature in Under the circumstances he could not but feel that the this measure that was now proposed. I have considered Catholics were entitled to their rights, and he thought trot °hJectio n i n t h e best way I cou ld , an d I feel b ound to t h at t h e secur i t i es propose d were quite sufficient for the el ts that I have never beard a more unfounded com- proteetion of the Protestant Conetitution. 1101 , tin this or on any ot h er subject. Why, Sir, let us The Marquis of BLANDFORD rose to address the of t h_ re e•kon what has been the nature of th e p rogress Ho use ; it was hi s i n t en ti on t o oppose the measureev m easure, (Hear, hear.) I as k, b o ldl y, was t h ere propose d b y G overnment, f rom a conviction that it step° this House a measure that w en t on f rom stage to mus t prove di sa d van t ageous to t h e P rotestant C h urc h ; fnakintuld from Session to Session, every now and then and he should also oppose it on the broad ground that I Will g n ew grou n d s on th e feelings of the Parliament, and, national calamity had alwas s followed on every step every b ev eu say, on the feelings of the country, giving that had been taken in favour of the Catholics. Let O dY an opportunity of watching its progress What then could be said for these Ministers of the Crown rrho.ln also request the House to remember that'ihe who haul most audaciously, he would say, certainly most isee.rie of this progress was continually marked by such unwisely, consented to make such an important alteration 'ucular events as ought to have prevented its escaping in the Constitution of this country on the hare assertion t aa Memory of any man, (Hear, hear.) In one year it that it might be so— of some peculiar expediency, without appealing to the ..IPens--1 am only just imagining people, and asking them whether it was or was not their one gentleman who had heretofore been strenuous in pleasure that the laws of England should be changed? Ilia opposition to the measure, passes over to the other side Was it, or was it not the duty of those who proposed 4_ lld . declares hi s s t rong conviction of something being done these measures, to ascertain whether they did not deter favour of th e Catholies—(bear, hear); in an o th er y e ar mine upon a course which wa s d ec id e dl y oppose d to t h e i ti ll e .. division was changed fr om a ma j ority against the Ca- peop l e o f E ngland ? He was indeed most thoroughly sta y to a majo r ity i n t h e i r favour—au event which one convinced that this change in the Constitution of the tlila, Well suppose could not have happened without being country, which had been so unexpectedly determined on, bn glY impressed on the minds of those who th ou ght that and which was now so indecorously hurried on by an inti 4tlinajority had changed for the worse ; and, last of all midated or a treacherous Government, was contrary to i t ,„: House recollect what was the warning conveyed to it the feelings of the Protestaut portion of the community. /0 :11 course of the last Session, when that great measure One word before he sat down, upon the subject of the i f ' ti the relief of the Dissenters passed through Parliament. changes of opinion which Ovid taken place in those who soma was not a warning, Sir—if lion. Gentlemen (lid were formerly devoted to Protestant principles. It had ro lthen see what thesigns of the times were,—(Cheers)— been observed with some force by a popular writer of the lt e , k 4 ?nly say, that they appear to me to he like that stiff- day, that there is no greater inconsistency in abandoning li e l ie e t : generation, described to us, that would not have opinions, when they can no longer be supported without h~ gl 'l , even if one had risen from the dead.—(Great danger to those interests which you are pledged to preserve, lle; s te r and cheers.) In my opinion, Sir, the Hon. Gen- than there is in a General of an army retreating before ite h .' n have had abundance of time; but if they had had an enemy when he finds them so much stronger than him tefiveti could they, I will ask, have acted with more zeal or self that all opposition would be useless. Now, he ad- Ci fth t 1; ? Have they net established their Brunswick initted this principle to its full extent. But to whom did V6 l B in Ireland? Are they not as numerous as they are they owe that strength which the enemy had obtained, t o tine ? (Cheers.) Piave they not approached nearer and which compelled even the Right Hon. Gentleman to or e eonfines of sedition and tumult than any other body declare th a t h e was compelled to adopt a course different tell °lle Ction of men?—(Cheering.) Will. they then now from that w hi c h h e h a d pursue d, an d i n oppos iti on t o thi s L l' that they have had no warning of the proposal of those principles which he admitted he still retains? Why fetu rne asUre? At l eas t I thi n k t h a t if t h ey wan t e d an y th e y owe d i t to the wea k ness and vac i llat i on of the Go -044 'they might have obtained it f r om a-survey of their vernment it se lf . L anguage f a il e d hi m w h en h e attempte d tesii , eond ition.—(Laine e hter.) It seems to toe, that the to find e xp ress i ons of condemnation for the feeling which • -m legs ow n story of Mrs. Thrale's about the Three Warn- engendered . such a state of things as left . that House Clai m er'Y applicable to the opponents of the Catholic nothing but the miserable alternative of choosing between st h , e Just now : the House of names knows th a t, i n th e the evils of rebellion and civil war, or bowing with aleject tt sit ' a t ° Which I have just alluded, old Dobson complains submission to the tlireets or the demands of Jesuits and of ree e ts•L et i has no busitiess with him, because he has not Jacob Hear, hear, hear.)—For his pant, he could Suit e - f:* t "" three warnings' that had been promised hien, only implore the Member» of that House to consider well out t h e that at that very moment he was with- what they were about to do, and to pause before they el ite deaf use Use of his limbs, had lost his sight, and was lowed themselves, under an intimidation which a wise and % t w" post. So it was with these Ho n o ura bl e energetic Government ought riot t o h ave b orne even f or an ee , ers amen -:--(loud shouts of laughter)—h ere th e y are h ou r, to consent to a series of - measures which may en ' th ' f P lat ting„ that they have ha u l no w arn i ng; b ut I assure d anger t h e sa f e ty o f all. kat,uit the case of old D o b son i s very much in point, Mr. ESTCOURT defended himself from the imputation t', t hat they ar c so lik e o ld men , that they must d e p ar t w hi c h the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman (M r . fe l lotit any further warning.—(Excessive laughter.)— Peel) was calculated to cast upon him, in that passage lIE feel that I should not be discharging my duty as a which referred to his silence upon the subject of the Ci- O ier of thi s H ouse —l f ee l t h at I s h ould not be acting tholic Clainis. He had always considered the powers of foe, o friend of Ireland, which lam most sincerely, if, be- the Right Hon. Gentleman to be so much beyond his own th, l lconelude, I did not re t urn my warmest t h an k s to i n t h e a d vocacy o f t h e l i g h ts of t h e Estaldished Church, thi s Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) who has introduced that he rested his hopes upon the Right lion. Gentleman's tte ft 'ellsUre; and I take the greatest honour to myself, in exertions, and refrained from obtruding his opinions upon N A : li g hien not only as the friend of the country, but as the House. The Right Hen. Gentleman had declared, 65 , ,, 0, 41 1 friend. Ido not intend to dwell upon the sacri- when attempting to answer the arguments of those who rie fti l r,_llich the Right Hon. Gentleman has made in un- pressed fir an appeal to the people, that the Parlia- Sjing to luring forward this measure; but there is one meat of 1826 might be said to express very fairly the opi- Pri fil r i neeted with the course which my Right Hon. nions of the country upon this question. The Right Hon. *k s * has- taken which has not been touched upon, and Gentleman, however, seemed to forget that this Parliament % I% theref ore , s till l e ft o p en f or me . I W ou ld spea k , was c h osen d ur i ng t h e Ad m i n i strat i on o f L or d Li verpoo l , s ktit,. °l „ 7 the great reward which is still in store for my and that the country relied with confidence upon the M`alpn. Friend, and which will more than repay him known attachment of that Noble Lord to those prin.. ge t% the sacrifices whiclehe has made for this greatest of ciples which his Right Honourable Friend then also V- AtIZ I4- -for can a greater- be imagined than that of professed with so much zeal. This fact, in his Pt, t t —e Emancipation ?—(Flear.)—l would speak of the opinion, tended much to allay that alarm a n d suepi theCLafter a f ew yeare sh ill have passed by, when my Right cion which would have been felt under differ e nt cir iteleXiend shall turn his pleased but anions eye towards I cumstances ; and he contended that the Government sestfulw"e-When be shall behold tranquillity restored there I would not act fairly by the people, unless it permitted them er 'tie s etr Y excited—morality diffused, and the tone of to declare that alteration in their opinions to which a dif 11414aoyt}l.4.,_eleveted and improved : will be then that lie 1 ferent state of circumstances must have given rise. The iencefeelinge which he nutili! not-exchange - for Hon. Member then proceeded, amidst expressions of itri -9Nee-"g which the Crown or the people have within ' patience from the Melee, which rendered the greater part 'v • et e Orfite-it will-be then 'that he Will say that his reward of his observations inaudible, Si) direct the attention of th e setZ t er even than the sacrifices ,he. made to obtain that Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel), and of the Hon. and Nth, %, And, if I may be allowed to turn from my Learnel Gentleman near him (the Solicitor-General), to VAi tt , 41 ,°R. Friend to the Noble Duke at the head of his the declaration contained in the clever and ingenious speech ` t ede,, l'a eGOvernment, I would say of him (the Duke of of the Hon. and Learned Member for Colchester (Mr. greet ip ,, L g t6 U) that itappears to me that he has achieved a Harvey), that the effect of this change—an effect upon e a hre hee :' Co nquest by e wisdom Onif policy - which he has which he congratulated the House and the country—would m liti s -v u s in bringing forward this.measure, than by any- be to diminish and curtail the overgrown emoluments of . -•VZever consummated by his e'alour and military skill ; the Church.—( Hear, hear.)—When such sentiments as hear)—h e had secured by it the affections of a these were openly avowed, and when the measures which as ardent, and devoted people a -SS-(Hear, hear.) emanated from the (lovernment had a direct tendency to eletdef, bay 014 I look upon it promote their success, it was not extraordinary that the 14 “Iter f ; , 4 401 - to confirm and establish all ouepreat national Clergy should stand forward to defend their property. The I believe that'it .. glYe - sei.turitY•tO the Go- lion. Member concluded by repeating his objections to the 41 % 4. - and to the. State:in& ifford satisfaction, as the innovat ens contemplated by his Majesty's Government. ( 1 4,) f Protecting the Institutions of the country— Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDCE confessed he could nut ... sit Will be the means of completing the imperfect desert the friends with whom he had so long acted in re- ference to the Catholic claims, without 'considerahle pain; but he had a paramount duty to pt , rfo an—not only to hi• constituents, but to the people of this great empire, which no taunts, no dttlicolties, oo dangers, no feding , of the extent of his responsibility should deter him from le begge to remind the House that lot had never said a to on tit mi,,bt not come.—(Hear.)—lle repeated he !it:4 -Frays said a time might arrive when it would become tttr dovat! e three estates which compro-arl the Governmettt i,, t:tk:_t the question of the claitni ~f Catholiss into their serious consideration, for the purpose of devising some means of final settlement.—(Hear, and a laugh.)—lt was his conviction that the time was now ar rived—that the moment was come when it became his duty to support the Government, because he saw no other way by which they could hope to relieve themselves from the difficulties of their present situation.—( Hear, hear.) He believed—and he spoke comcientiously—that there was an altered feeling throughout the country upon this question--(Cries of hear, and partial laughter.) —He had long been acquainted with the opinions of the people upon this subj,ct. He had watched and studied these opinions. He believed, and indeed he knew them to be altered, and in the face of a majority of even his own constituents, he was prepared to contend that the question of concession to the Catholics ought to be settled. Any Member of that House who attentively read the petitions laid upon their table, even from the. West of England, would perceive they displayed- a---t h to see the question finally settled. Look, he would ask, at the language of those petitions. Formerly the petitions called upon that Howie to refuse all concession unconditionally, but now they would find that the langu ige of these petitions was very different, and that they refused Emancipation unlesa ac companied with securities.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—lt was said, however, that the present proposition contained no securities for the preservation of the Protestant Constitution, or the integrity of the Church. Upon that point he was at issue. He had beard the arguments and the reasons of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel), and he was astonished that any man should say there were no securities provided in the plan now before therm. These arguments and these reasons were not, perhaps, such as would convince the Notile Lord (Lord Blandford), and the Hon. Member for Oxford (Mr. Est court) ; but they seemed to him to be perfectly satisfactory, even to the strongest advocate for Protestant Aseendancy, The Hon. Baronet conclui.led, by declaring his confidence in the Members of his Majesty's Government, and his de termination to support them, in despite of all which may be said against them, when they attempted to bring to a satisfactory settlement those questions which it was become imperative upon them to submit to the wisdom anti to the decision of Parliament.—(Hear.) Col. SIBTHORPE. bad listened in vain for any reason which could justify this inversion of the Constitution, or that political apostasy which is so visible in those who supported it. There was no security, he conceived, for the Established Church or the Protestant Constitution ; and although he had a great respect and esteem for the in habitants of the Sister Kingdom, he feared the effect of their religious principles. The measure should not be hurried through the House.—(Hear, hear, and cries of "question.")—There recently bad been such changing of seats and changing of sides, that he really did not know where his friends sat.—(Laughter. )—There was one re markable conversion iu the Hon. Baronet (Sir T. Leth bridge.)—(fkar, hear, and a laugh.)—There had been marches and counter-marches; but he was sure the people of England—certainly his county—would not rally under the (sinners of those who supported this measure. The changes we e like those of the camelemr,--(Mush laughter, and loud cries of "question.")—He begged to enter his solemn pretest agsiinst the measure. Let the fair expres sion of the people's voice be taken, and he was sure it would decide against it. Let it not be rashly precipitated, thrust down the people's tliro its, like a ball forced down a horse's throat.—(Great laughter, which was followed by cries of " question," which rendered the concluding sen tences of the Hon. Member quite inaudible in the gallery.) Sir JOHN NEWPORT—Having taken an active part in the agitation of this question for the period of a long public life—having personally watched its progress—and having had mole opportunities than, perhaps, any other Member of this House, in exaifining accurately the state of society in Ireland, I am naturally anxious to offer a few words on the measure that has been brought forward by his Molests'', Gsvernment--(Hear.)—The opinions which I have often expressed on this question are not only un changed, but confirmed ; and I am convinced that it was impossible for society to continue, as it hitherto has ex isted in Ireland, with safety to the Empire or any security for its subjects.' The Revolution of 1688 had been con stantly referred to in these discussions, but it was a bingular coincidence (as we understood the Hon. Baronet), chat those who were the loudest advocates in the resistance of these claims were returned us representatives for places which had manifested the strongest opposition to that Revolution. Do they who boast of their attachment to the Constitution not consider a Trial by Jury as a part of it, to he cherished and revered ? and if they do, they should consider that, in the present state of society in Ireland—amid the prejudices that prevailed there, it was impossible that Trial by Jury could be advantageously or fairly exercised without a perfect equality of civil rights—(Hear.) —Under the present state of things it was literally impossible.—(Hear.) —One of the principal objects Mr which I rose on this occasion, was to return my most grateful thanks for the measure recommended from the Throne, and brought forward on the responsible advice of: an _united Cabinet. The prin ciple of that measure was conciliation ; and in its prin ciple it carries its best security.—(Hear, hear.)—When ever the day shall arrive—as soon, I trust, it will—its effect will be to rally under one common banner the people of an malted Empire in its defence.—(Cheers.)—The principle of exclusion was foreign from the spirit of the Constitution; it had been too long practised towards the people of Ireland, for its effect was to impair the empire of half its strength—to paralyse its energies, and to intro duce distraction and confusion into the affairs and best interests of the people.—( Hear, hear.)—The measure now proposed to be executed, it has long been my firm conviction, will powerfully contribute to correct this state bf society; and as to the manner in which it is pro posed to be given, I must say, I think it is given in such a manner as to afford unequivocal satisfaction to every rea sonable man.—(Hear, hear.)—This is my opinion with re spect to the measure itself ; but in reference to the other measure relating to the elective franchise with which it is proposed to accompany it, I must say that the assenting to it is to make a great. sacrifice of a great principle for the sake of a great and paramount good. On account of the measure itself of interfinence with the elective franchise, I reluctantly assent to it ; but I do so willingly in considera tion of thegreat and inestimable boon with which it is as sociated.—( Hear, hear.)—l am aware of the obloquy which may attend the for making this declaration; but I have now come to that time of life, and have been too long a public man, not to know and feel that the conscientious performance of my duty is the best and most faithful way to execute the trust reposed in me as a representative of the people.—( Hear, hear.)—lt is by acting upon this principle that the Right Hon. Secretary (llr. Peel), much to his own honour, has provided for the safety of the State—has made great and honourable sacrifices—and has subjected himself to the unmerited taunts which have been addressed to him for his conduct upon this question. Sir, this course of observation is alike unfair to the Right Hon. Gentleman and to the question itself. It is argumentum ad personam non ad rem; but, Sir, I deny the charge of inconsistency against the Right Hon. Gentleman. It is not inconsistency for a Minister of the Crown to vary his course of action according to the circumstances under which he is called upon to act, and the public interest which he is bound to aihninister.—(Hear, bear.) The paramount duty of a Minister and a public man is not that his conduct upon one question should remain unchanged, but that he should adapt his measures to the state of things and to the exigencies which he has to nieet.—(H eae , h eals ) All other objects become secondary and inferior in consi deration of the paramount object of the safety of the coon too For that safety I assent to the measure relating to the elective franchise—at the same time I feel that, in doing so, I am purchasing that safety at a considerable price. Mr. HUSKISSON- and Mr. BATLEY rose at the same time, but the call for Mr. Huskisson being general from all parts of the House, the Right Hon. Gentleman proceeded to address the Muse. Although, Sir, at the present stage of the discussion of this question I feel it unnecessary to address to the House many observations on the general measure itself, yet I deem it proper to make some remarks, and principally in consequence of what has fallen.from an Hon. Gent., the Member fur the University of Oxford (Mr. Estconrt). I know not whether I have misconceived the position laid down by the Honourable Member , : te i ; f 1 .1 m h t7 , 1 hhaevt7inllaltiavine jacno,olepepiovretdultihiteypo,f)sirtviorn lraeicdtitnlogwn by the Mon. Member, it appeared to me, I own, to ba one of the most extraordinary arguments ever ad vanced in Parliament. The Hon. Member referred to the Revolution of 1688, and stated, that as a convention was then called for the purpose of forming a Constitution, so now, as an alteration was about to be made in that Con stitution, a Parliament should now be regularly summoned for the consideration of this question. But was the situation of the country in 1688 similar to the cir cumstances by .which we are now surrounded ? What was the first act of the Convention of 1688 ? To &Aire the Throne abdicated anti vacant.—(Hear, hear, hear. )—Was that a state of things in any respect parallel to tiss emeoent ? Certainly not; and I must, there- pede the success of the other greater and more important eletement was sieipot`t ly fecte. The Priest, did oh it they 'fore, pr o t e s t sag ;inst t!„• rXtraordinary position of the Hon. measure. The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amid emit! at the election flu Clore, and some of them had so M em b er , en d assert tlemt the present Parliament is come general cheering, after which there was a loud cry of di.pleasoil their flocks, that they ]tail been oblieed to leave potent and et f,, e ti,c e: , nsideration of every measure of " Adjourn. adjourn." and of " Question." their parishes, and other priests have been obliged to go foreign end simenestic peliey--fit for the deliberation and de- Mr. ESTCOURT explained. and do their duties for them. He had not heard any aran c6ion up on every tovie tette:ling the national interests—fit, Mr. BATLEY rose :emit] era cries of " Question !" meats against the meaeure which had been propos e d. The especially, for th e ,h, e wsishing and judging of the hoped fee the indul g , n emr of th e Holm, as he repre- Hon. Gentleman who had just taken !tie seat, seemed to hint Portant uwasto, gemeimmusly nee...me:end e d by th e Sov e r e i gn welted a.l irge constinweey.—(The lion. Gentleman is to araue inconsistently. He admitted that the Catholics to its e .,1 :0 tuoye,lt , hear.)— Member far Beverley.) —He dui not say that the present might be believed. He rejected all that old tra s h abo u t I 1-,jui e , t m, have Imetot mma ;light Hon. Friend, in Parliament was not competent to decide this question, but Catholics nut being worthy of belief on th e ir oath, an d the able, perspicuous, and stateeman-like speech in which he did say that it was not the most competent House of not !wino loyal to filch King, he admitted that they were he introduced the measure last night, that the principle of Coe - moos to decide it.—(A latigh.)—He sew no s:uli ity in c reasing in wealth and numbers and in influence ; and it was th e abolition of civil disabilities, and all inequtlity of to the Established Church in pieventing Reman Catholics then, instead of admitting that this influence, wealth, p o liti ca l r ight s on account of religious distinction.-- s (Hear, from being Lord Chancellors and Lori' Lieutenants of Ire- loyalty, and honour, ought to entitle th e m t o a f u ll enjuy hear.)-And it appears to me that my Right Hon. F r i en d land,—(Cries of " Question.")—'Twas true we had a Pro- unent of all the benefits of the Constitution, he argued that has pr o pos e d to carry the me sure in a mann e r best adapt e d testaitt King, but then he 'Meta be surrounded by a Ito- they ought to be deprived of those benefits o f whi c h no to, anti worthy of, the principle to which he proposed to man Catholic Lord Treasurer.—( Loud and general laugh- man ought to be deprived unless on a clear and convincing g i ve e ff ec t. His course has been simple, straight-forward, ter.)—They were going to pull down the adamantine case of neceeeity. No pereon had ever chew e d th e exist and efficeeimmus.—(Hear, hear.)—Time measure proposed to pillar of the Constituti.m.—(Laughter, cheers, " No, (ewe of any such necessity as to the Catholi cs , an d th ere conf e r all that could be reasonably required. 1 listened to no," cries of " Questiten" anti cries of " Adjourn," now was not the slightest probability, that he could see , o f d an s the admirable speech of my Right Honourable Friend, become so loud, that what the Hon. Member further said sere to the Constitution from admitting the Cath o li cs t o th e i r anxious to learn what comet, was intended to be taken was not heard.) just rights. He was astonished to hear that lion. Member as • after it had been announced that the Catholic Qties- Colonel PEEL hoped the House, as he was not in gene- eel that nothing w o uld content the Catholics but the sub tion was to be brought forward a. a Government question. rid forward to address them, would allow hitn, on that oc- version of the establishment. Such an idea appe are d ex _ Considering the responsibility that itlinisters took upon easion, to say a few words. He thought that there was trenmely injurious to the Catholics; and he ,was perimm o l e d themselves—considering, too, the situation of the country, danger approaching to the Constitution, but he could not that they would never think of the crime attributed to th em the state of society in Ireland, and all the other points, hope that it would be averted by his feeble efforts, or th it unless such suspicions put it into their head:- The distil l ) ) . with all the difficulties which beset the question, I was his voice would then be heard, when he could only use ar- vices in Ireland, anti the bowl of anion which now ex satisfied that the measure was well considered, that it had guments that had before been more forcibly used by others, i.ted among the Catholic: of Irland, were occasioned by been fairly examiner], and brought forward in the way best and his roaring could only be the feeble echo of moue power- Protest a nt injustice ; anti that Paine Protestant injustice calculated to give general satisfaction, and to attain the oh- ful voices. In being compelled to diff e r from those who disunit e d th e Protestants, threw into their balanced erafee jests which the advocates of this question always p ro p ose d now proposed a change in those principles they heti before the whole weight of Irish discontent, and subjected die to themselves and to the country, would follow from its advocated, he did not tin.' fault with them. He was aware eimuntry to the tereatest danger. The evil was nil neva complete and final adjustment. (Loud cries of hear, of the difficulties with which they were surround e d, whi c h 'e m ,' by Protestant injustice—(hear, bear,)—and the hear.) In bringing this question to a satisfactory con- were for them a sufficient apology liar their condu c t ; be only w a y t o remedy it, was to admit the Chinas of the elusion, it seas right to consider if there was any thing cast no doubt on the purity of their motive s , and indulged C a th o li c s, whi c h would re-unite the Protte , tairate, and de in the religious belief and creed of the Catholic religion, in no suspicion of any parties. He supposed that th e y w e re -. tro y th a t b e nd of a common danger, and a common int , - tor which it would be necessary to apply specific restric- all imetuated by a desire to promote the interest and prospe- not, shish now held time Catholics united. It wile of tione, but whilst this should be done, to whatever extent rity of the country, to secure the religion o f th e St a t e , a n d f ees i ve t o suppose that the Catholics of England anti Ire the Established religion of the - country trily require, it was that they looked en this measure as calculat e d to answ er l an d w ould not fl-el gratefully affectionate to the Conetitime not less desirable anti necessary that the. pleasure should these purposes. In the opposition which he f e lt him se lf mien, an d ready to support it when they were admitted to be released from time accompanimr.ent of harsh restrictions, called on to give it, he was not influenced by any narrow enjoy 0 11 its privileges. He was persuaded that the sieo to provide ageinst imaginary dangers. (Heir, bear.) I or illiberal spirit towards tic Catholics. Time number- toes of this measure seas necessary to thee peeee, traii am glad that the measure should have been so proposed— less occasions on which they had fought and bled fi r quillity, and the prosperity of the empire. Ile implolvd so, too, I trust, it will be discussed—end what I own I their country, put an end to every ett:picion of their the House not to be misled, and he believed they much admire in the measure is, that it is not loaded with loyalty. He rejected the old and absurd notion, that a not be misled, by the flimsy sephistry which laid been any cumbrous machinery. (Cries of hear, hear.) The Catholic wee not hound by an oath, and that he-was not urged by some Members to delay the question, in order, old pretended dangers were abandoned, anti the ctn. fit to live in society with his fellow men. The objections :ms they sail, to give time to appeal to the country ; that b rarTassing time measure of relief with pretended se- that he had to the measure applied less to the Roman Ca- was, to rouse up passions and prejudieee, and appeal eurities for such dangers, had now grown stale, and tholics as a body of men, than to their religiou. Ile did to them to prevent the House from doing an act of were not and ought not to be any longer insisted upon.-- not find fault with them for their desire to enjoy all the justice. No man could doubt, whatever the prejudice and !tut if there were not such specific securities accompanying political powers of the State ; but if the Roman Catholics time ignorance of the country might desire, diet the good the removal of those disabilities as some Hon. Members were admitted into this and the other House of Parliament sente or the country was in favour of time measure. They may require, is the established religion of this country with- they would legislate in the interests and opinions of the might, if they went on, stir up the stones to petition ; and nut sufficient and ample security? Is there not security Catholic body. It had been said by one of their abl e st seine of die opponents of the measure had called on the for that religion in the Act of Union between England and advocates, Mr. Fox, that unless the Catholics were ad- stones to rise in judgmene . aeainst the measures ; and if the Scotland ? I, there not security for it in the Act of Union :tatted into Parliament, Parliament would not sympathise stones could write, they might possibly be brought to pee between Great Britain and Ireland? Again, has it no se- with their feelings, and they would not be virtually r e pre- tien, as the dogs bad:petitioned--at least the repreeenta curity in the Houses o f Lords and Commons, and itm the sentcd. But what feelings were possessed by the Catho- tires of the dogs had petitioned—for he bad seen a petition Throne itself, with the power and influence that belonged firs with which that House did not already sompatidee— signed by a huntsman and a whipper-in.—(A laugh, an 4 to it?—(Hear, bear.)— o ls there not security for it else in in which were they not represented except in the point of hear, hear.)—But he leaped the House would not be ;ol die attachment and affection of those who pussies the large their religion ? The exertions tint had been made in their posed upon by any such foolish delusion.—(llear, hear.) — property and inheritance of this kingdom ?—(Loud cries favour could not be exceeded by any that they could make The Hon. Baronet concluded by expressing Lis hearty of Hear, hear.)—lt is idle, then, to talk of further securi- for themselves. He meant not to throw any stigma on concurrence in the measure proposed by time Right Hon. ties for the Church, with such sufficient and ample secnri- the Catholic;—lie had no desire to say one word that was Secretary for the Home Department, and declering that ties as these. After expressing- the satisfaction and deli g ht unjust towards them; hut he meant to say of them what those Gentlemen must be void of candour, who, being un he felt at the measure of justice being, about to be acconm- lie should say of himself, and what he should be bound t o ehle to answer the arguments of the Right Hem Gentle pushed without any obnoxious drawback:;, and the gratify- perform—_hat it would It; his duty to promote his GWII m tn, were not satisfied with those arguments, rind ceneemomi ing prospect that presented itself of soon seeing the British religion, and it would he th e irs to destroy time Pr o t es t an t hint for proposing a measure that wa% necessary' jrO the end Irish Nobility and Gentry professing the Roman Ca-. Religion and the Protestant State. Measures were, he welfere of the country.—(Cheers, followed by cries of diolie religion, assume their proper stations in the coon- rapidly advauciog. 'e hat system was now to he " Question, Question, Adjourn !'') as of their country, the Bi g ht Honourable Gentleman applied to our religion which had hoes] applied to our trade The Hon. Mr. DUNCOAIBE meant to give his hones:: proceeded to advert to the ploonsal of what was the —with what success, time manufactur e rs of tim e whol e and conscientious opposition to this measure. He looked shadow of a security, and what teas an at range- kingdom could at present readily answer.—( H e ar, hear.) on it as unqualified, unconditional Emancipation.—(lieer, Inuit not so much connected with the measure itself In his opinion that system had not succeeded, a nd h e imear.)--The Right lion. Gentleman had talked about se .as rendered necessary by peculiar circumstances in doubted if this measure wnuld succeed. It had been tie,- curities, but he saw none proposed, and doe English the satiation and state of society in Ireland. This scribed as likely to remove jealousy and allay suspicion; Church was left without any security whatever. He was accompanying measure. as growing mat of that state of but he thought it was more probable that when the two mistormished to hear the Hon. Baronet, of all men, attack society, did not apply to Clue Roman Catholics of England, ligions were placed on a more equal footing, the rivalsbip the rights of the people.—(Heir, bear.)—lle had openly to whom be was gratified to see that atonement was soon would be stronger. If men, when time rival-hip was already :mttacked the right to petition, but lie, for one, could assert, about to be made for time multiplied wrongs inflicted upon so strong, could suppose that it would be lessened by making that the petitions he had presented expressed the honest, them, and which they eminently merited by their faithful, time Churches more equal, he could not approve of that api- and decided, and conscientious opposition of the petitioners loyal, and exemplary conduct. There is one topic, con- nion. That the two Churches could remain as at present, to ths measure proposed by hie Majesty's Government. It tinned the Right Hou. Gentleman, to which I deem it one of which was in possession of extensive temporalities of had been said that the country had not been taken by necessary to advert, as it has been much dwelt upon by the which the other was deprived, was not to be expected ; and surprise when the recommendation came from the Thro n e ; Hon Member for Gloucester (Mr. B. Cooper). His 1-lon. the Catholics, under th e influence of th e ir Ch u r c h would but he was in the country when the Speech from the Throne Friend had attributed to the Government a remissness in strenuously endeavour, he believed, to win back for that arrived, anti it would be in vain for him to endeavour to ex not haying applied measures of adequate ri g our to sup- Church the rights of which it h a d b een , i n t h e i r op i - press t h e surpr i se , th e co nsternation, a n d he m i g ht say , t h e press the Catholic Association in Ireland. Whilst upon oion, unjustly deprived.—(Cheers.)—He judged them as indignation of the people.—(Hear, hear.)—The Hon. this point, it is necessary to advert to circ ums t ances a tt en d_ h e j u d ge d himself. Whatever would promote that reli- Member made some further observations, but to e impa ant upon the measure for the suppression of the Catholic gion which he thought true, he should feel hims e lf tience and noise of the House became so great, that we Association in Ireland. It had been asked whether bound to perform. Would they not think the denial could not distinguish what the Hon. Member said, and, the measure for the suppression of the Association of these temporalities the profanation of their alters after a short time, the Hon. Member resumed his seat. was the measure of an united 'Cabinet ? That Act and the degradation of their Priests? That they took a The noise and uproar which now prevailed beggars all was the result of the deliberate consideration of a Cabinet great interest in their religion was evident by the peti- description. The House was quite clamorous, and the united upon its propriety. I strenuously supported that tions they had sent to Parliament, and would this interest cries of " divide, divide," " adjourn, adjourn," "go on, measure. The Bill for the suppression of that body stet be diminished by enabling them to promote their religion? go on," were vociferated from all quarters. Amizist the with the most decided resistance in this House ; but that He thought that there was great danger to our Protestant general din, after many angry discussions it became the law. The Constitution, and, though much had been said about secu- Mr. G. MOORE moved, that the further considera-ra leaders of the Association at that time lent their aid to the t ides, he saw none proposed. The security that was . sup- tion of the question be adjourned to Monday next.--( rime discontinuance of the Meeting, induced to do so front a posed to be in the number of the Catholics being le s s th an noise and uproar here increased, and continued for a con hope which they formed that there seas a prospect that that of Protestants, was too trifling to appear to him any , siderable time.) the Bill for the suppression of the Association would security at all. If he could place any reliance on th e state- The SPEAKER repeatedly called out " Order, or bs followed by a 'measure of relief from civil die- menu that had been made of the Catholics in c rea s i ng i n der," and proceeded to observe that the original question abilities. For a greater part of the Session the meet- numiiets,—if be could rely on wheat had be e n e nd e d, sets, that the House should resolve itself into a Committee ings of that body were voluntarily discontinued ; but when within the last 20 years they had already 'adv ance d t o b e of the whole House, to eoesider of the disabilities under the Bill which had passed this House was rejected by a one-fifth, and soon would become one-third of the whole which time Roman Catholics laboured ; since which an majority in the House of Lords, the Association revived— people. When they were so numerous, what relianc e amendment bad been moved that the further discussion of (Hear, hear.) It will be recollected that the hope of the could be pleated on them for the payment of tithes? He the question he adjourned to Monday next. The question adjustment of this question seas then so strong in the minds thanked the hon. Member for Colchester for the honesty of which he had to put was, that the words proposed to be of the leaders of the Catholic body, that they were in- luis declaration on this point,—(Hear.)—He had placed omitted should stand part of the - question. duced to offer the elective franchise, and other points, in due danger in a stronger light than ever he (Colonel Peel) Lord HOWICK expressed a hope that no delay would consideration of it. When it was found that the Aseocia- apprehended. Every body who gave 116 opinion was take place in passing the proposed measure. It seas mat tion had revived its sittings, and that the law which had called On to say, if he opposed time measure, what could he ter of the utmost importance that the business of the been passed for its suppression was ineffective, it might be do ? He for one was ready to admit that things could country should he carried on as expeditiously as possible, said that a stronger measure might have been applied to not remain as they scene ; anti, indeed, he thought th a t and those who were anxious to retard the proposed Bill the accomplishment of that object. True, a stronger mea- they ought not to have been allowed to come int o only showed the weakness of their party; and if they sure might have been applied, and the suppression of that their present state.—(Cries of Hear, scar.)--He did not persevered in their opposition they would only publiels body might have been effected, but it could only have been tiumi fault with the measures which had been adopted, their own disgrace.—(Hear, heir.) bra measure the effect of which would be the total cue- but he did not at the same time think that the present Mr. HOIIIIOUSE expressed a hope that the House pension of the Constitntion in Ireland—(Hear,hear.)—But, measure was the only sta. which could be had recourse would determine upon coming to a decision that evening. though the body nene suppressed, would its suppression to. He was ready to adopt the plan recomm e nd e d by his If the adjournment were carded, he hoped it tvotild be put an end to the heart•burnings, the discontents, to time Hon. Friend, and would appeal to time country, whi c h considered that every Member n'ho voted tor it was averse private outrage and private revenge, adverted to in the had not only the power to support the Administration, to discussion. able speech of my Right Hon. Friend (Sir G. Murray), but to supply other Ministers if they were wanted. It Mr. Secretary PEEL fAt no hesitation in raying that and to the distracted state of society in Ireland ? And was true that the country had before been appealed to, but he was most anxious to give every latitude to the dis the difficulty even of suppressing the Association was for- never under similar circurestances.—(flear.)—At all cession, so far as it depended upon him; but, from what midable, when it is considered that it could be only done by events, he was not disposed to entrust the Catholics with he had heard, he felt it his duty to oppose himself to any a measure of the description to which I have adverted.— political power. It might be a imarzlehip, but he thought unnecessary delay,—(hear, hear)—and therefore he Was For my part, seeing the state of things in that country, I they ought to remain content with the benefit s th e y a t compelled to resist the proposed adjournment ; and if the declared my determination, as a Member of Clue Cabinet, present enjoyed, and not seek for political power. If th a t House were to go to a division, the numbers would be a not to be a party to any measure of further coercion, un- time and attention which had been occupied in receiving fair criterion of the feelings of the House.—(Cheers ) less it were accompanied by a measure of relief to the petitions had been employed in devising somethin g fo r th e A MEMBER under the gallery, whose nacre we could Roman Catholics.—(Hear, hear.)—The evils existing in benefit of Ireland, something 'night have been found not learn, expressed a hope that those who were opposed Ireland, from the existence of the Association, which I do better than this nteasure to promote the tranquillity of th e to the Adjournment alight not be considered as not op not mean to undervalue, were still lees objectionable than people. It might be the price they were called on to pay posed to the Catholic Question. He certainly was op the total suspension of the Constitution in that country. to promote that tranquillity, it might appear to some th a t posed to the Adjournment ; butt he would not, at that —(Cheers.)—Besides, in justice to the Association it there was no evil is substituting time Catholic religion for moment state his (pinions upon the other Question.-- should be st tted that in many instances they promoted the religion of the country; but to him it appear e d a (Loud cries of "order, order! question, question! hear.") peace in many parts of the country; and it certainly is a great evil, and he would never consent to pay this price Mr. O'NEILL rose to order. fact that crime throughout the country and outrages had for the tranquillity of the country. He implored those The SPEAKER—" Order, order!" The Hon. Mem greatly diminished during its existence. It was because who agreed with him not to anticipate a defeat, and he her who has risen to order, is himself most out of order.— there was less of evil in that state than in the suspension of called on those who opposed the measure to do so with (A laugh, and cries of " hear, hear.") the Constitution, that I deemed it indispensable that any firmness and perseverance. In conclusion, time H o n. Mr. G. MOORE said, that if he bad done wrong in future measure of coercion of the Association should be ac- Member said he believed most sincerely that he w a s ri g ht moving the adjournment of the Debate, lie begged pardon ; companied by one of concession to that unhappy people.— in his anticipations, but be hoped he might b e wro ng ._ and was ready to withdraw his motion, provided he was Let it not be supposed that I approve or advocate the (Cheers, followed by cries of "question," and "adjourn." allowed to express his sentiments upon the general question. proceedings of the Association. No such thing ; I d e t es t th e Sir FRANCIS BURDETT concurred in the sentiments The Motion was, with the leave of the House, with agitators as much as any man can—l detest all Parliaments expressed by the Member on the bench below him, and drawn. but the legitimate Parliament of thi s Realm—l detest all should not have risen had he not wished to appear not to Mr. G. MOORE then proceeded to address the Holus e Exchequers but the Exchequer of th e King—l a bh or the shrink i n th e smallost tiC!Zree from tic support of the mea- in a most strenuous opposition to the claims of the Roman assumption of any political authority except that which is sere introduced by th e Bight H on . G e ntl eman , an d i ntro _ C a tholies; but the impatience manifested in the body of derived from the authority of the State, and which zipper- d i c e d by r easons a nd ar guments whi c h, un l ess t h ey were the House, and the noise which Prevailed in the side galle tains to the institution.; of the country. I r e co gn i sa the answered—imed he had yet !:card no answers to them— ries (both of which were crowded with Members), pre authority' of no assembly but Parliament, and I deprecate should i n d uce a ll p ar ti es t o su p por t th e measure o f the vented the possibility of catching any two of leis senten ces , the existence of any terror but time terror of the law.— Bight H on . G en tl eman . Th e H on , G en tl eman who had so as to connect them with any thing like a certainly of (Chews.) It is well that the measure is about to be just sat down, and who b a d s p o k en hi s f ee lings openly and being correct. The Hon. Member was understo o d to say, passed now he the manner in which it has been recom- manfully, entertaining as h e did a different op i n i on from th a t he f ea r e d the consequences of this measure would be mended from the Throne, and that it has not been made Persons with Whom he was connec t e d, ga ve the House, if found to be the unsettling of what was now firmly este what should be much deprecated—a settlement by party or gentlemen would but consider it, a foretaste of the bitte r I /dished, and the converting our present security into comprounise._(Hear, hear.) It 'vas well to anticipate, . ingredients Which to all p e rsons and classes were now mixed danger. by judicious legisl a ti on , w h at m i g h t h erea f ter be conceded,imp in Ireland, and which state of thin g s was so conflictin g Mr. O'NEI LL attempted, hut in vain, to make some when there would be neither grace nor favour in the con- that it watt impossible that it could exist. The Noble Lord explanation. He was met by the cries of " spoke, spoke !" cession. It has been well said by Mr. Burke, in hisspecch w h o ca ll e d on t h e House not to vo l e f o r time Bill that was to - and finally sat down, without having been heard. on Economical Reform, "If there is any one eminent crie be brought in might to have replied to the arguments in Mr. PORTMAN agreed with throe who thought that seniors which above all the rest distinguishes a wise Go- favour o f th e Bill, and justified the conduct he called on t the course taken by his Majesty's Ministers was the cur vernment from an Administration weak and impr ov id ent , ot h er m em b ers to p„r„,„e. H e did no t wi s h t o go again rect one, and he cordially thanked them for having it is this—..'well to know the hest time and manner over all the arguments of that thread-bare subject, which adopted it. of yielding what it is imPos'ible to keep.' ”—(Loud had been as it were thrashed out so completely, that Sir C. BURRELL was understood to be opposed to the cheers.)--A8 to that part of the measure which relates ino ingenuity could supply a new argument, or measure; and he read some letters to show the dorni to the 'Elective Franchise, I men Ido not a pp roac h it gain one a dvantage from discussieg it. lk could nant influence exercised by the Catholic Clergy in Ire with the same unmixed and cordial approbation with assure the I.lon. Meinber f o r Aldhorough, wimo had sp o k en land. which I regard the m a i n measure i tse lf. Ab s t rac t e dly it of time uncontrolei power of time Priests in Ireland, that . Viscount CORRY—I did not intend, Sir, to have is a measure of positi ve injustice,—(Loud cries of lunar, the frith were not a Priest-ridden people. (Hear, he ar ,) si , oken upon this subject, but as I hail the honour to second hear.)—antl it d oes no t app ear t o me t o be one of indise Ile believed the people or Ireland were as little under th e the Address to his M a j e ety for the Speech in which some peusible and necessary enactment. This is my own influence of the Priests as any people; and facts w i o,' in • ere of this sort was recommended, I feel bound to opinion of it. B u t w hil st I say t hi s , I us -i s l e t o d e f er to seen , that they were net under the d om i n i on o f t h e P r i ests. eti.••• my opinion on th e m ea eure . noiv produced. Whenl the judgment of per sons w h o are so muc h b e tt er acqu aint- (No, nn! Hear, h ear .) On several occasions l a t e ly, t h e seml,aded the'Arldress, I thought that this question m i g h t ccl with the state of Ireland than I ani, and in whose judg- Priests had not been able to induce the people to follow be well settled for the advantage of the whole kingdom, ment such a measure is a desirable aecotnpaninient of the their directions. (Hear, lieu'.) It WaS a fact that the bet at the same time I reserved to myself the right of op measure of relief.—(H ear , hear,) —Considering, however,. Ministers of the C rown h a d o f l ate lam en t e d that the peeing any measure that might be prod uce d, an d t hi s _ the difficulties with w hi c h I tun sensible this question is Priests of Ireland had lost their influence, and were no timidly stated that I would oppose any measure, come from surrounded—knowing well the obstacl es by w hi c h Govern- longer able to control the people. (Hear, h e ar. No. no.) shorn it might, if I thoughtit was not accompanied with ment is met in the wi se endeavour t o adjust this question At the election of the county of Clare, which the Mem. sufficient safeguards. However sanguine were th e hop e s finally and satisfactorily —being aware how desirable it is hers could not fo rge t, the Priests had dope their duty; but then entertained that no measure would be produc e d with. that the feelings of th e Protestant part of Ireland should all the power whi c h they could exert, c ould not get their out these satieguards, I must confess that the Bill of last be consulted and satisfied w i t h thi s measure.; and being flocks to vot e f or Mr. Fitzger a ld. The Priests were night has cosapletely di,sipat e d those hopes. In faet.wtth assured as I an t , t h at t h ere i s a press i ng political expedi- obliged to follow the general imp u l se ti t ct had been giv e n t h e except i on o f t h e c h ange respecting the forty. shijinf: en cy for the passing such a measure ; I d eem it right to to the people, lout the people w ere no l o nger under their freeholds, requiring that the right to voteat.elee_tions shall assent to it, rather th an by resisting it, embarrass sr control, (N o , no . Hear, hea rs ) lie would say that thi s in futur e b e confin e d to th e po,; seeso r s of freeholds of the