The Sun. — London, England, 1829-05-08 00:00:00

question before the House, it would be both irregular and inconvenient to continue the discussion any further. POOR LAWS—(IRELAND.) Mr. SADLER held in his hand a petition intimately connected with the motion made by an Hon. Member re lative to the introduction of the poor laws into Ireland. He thought he should best secure the attention of the House by shortly reading certain points upon which the prayer of the petition was founded. The petitioners stated that the introduction of the poor laws into that country would .set in motion a large capital, which would encourage and foster industry in the same proportion that what was given to the poor produced similar effects in this country. The petitioners prayed that the'laws respecting the poor of Ire land might be assimilated to those of England, and com plained of the great discrepancy of public charities in the two countries.—(The Hon. Member was proceeding to state the opinions of Mr. Nimmo and other writers upon the subject of the petition, but he was interrupted by coughing and other signs of impatience on the - part of the House.)—He begged to assure Hon. Members, that if they were tired of hearing the petition, it would have been a still further tax upon their patience had he offered his own observations npon it. As matters stood, he should content himself with moving that the petition be brought up. The petition was brought up and read ; it was the peti tion of the freeholders and other inhabitants of Clare, in the King's County, praying the introduction of the poor laws into Ireland. After a few words from Lord OXMANTOWN, General Gascovar, and Mr. V. STUART, the petition - was or dered to lie on the table. Mr. MAXWELL presented a petition, signed-by 1500 inhabitants of Renfrewshire, complaining of distress in the trade there, and praying relief. They prayed the fixing of a maximum and minimum of wages. Mr. Secretary PEEL felt that any attempt to establish a ?maximum and minimum of wages would prove injurious to the petitioners themselves. These were the grounds upon which he resisted the prayer of the petition. The petition was read, and ordered to he printed. Mr. W. PEEL brought up a Report of the number of Charities and Charitable Donations in England and Wales. On the motion of Sir G. MURRAY, it was ordered that Copies of tke Correspondence between the Colonial Government and certain individuals, relative to a Settlement on the Swan River, be laid before the House. , EAST RETFORD. Mr. HENRY FANE rose to move that a New Writ be is , ued for the Borough of East Recford. Mr. H. GURNEY seconded the motion. Lord MORPETH declared that no support he had ever given to any motion was more constrained than that which he should afford to this. Lord W. POWLETT—Although he should rather have given the elective franchise to the town of Birming barn than to the Hundred of Bassetlaw, should certainly prefer giving it to the inhabitants of Bassetlaw than to the corrupt voters of East Retford. Sir J. WROTTESLEY had another object than that of punishing the delinquency of East Retford ; and that was, to do what both the agricultural and manufacturing in terests required, namely, to give it to one of the large towns. He was glad to hear the Right Hon. Member for Liverpool. who was not an advocate for Reform, say as he had done the other night, that Manchester, and Leeds, and Birmingham ought to have representatives. He Opted that that principle wouldsoon be acted on. Mr. HEATHCOTE had no hesitation in acting on the principle of preferring the respectable inhabitants of the Hundred of Bassedaw to the corrupt voters of the Borough of East Retford. He thought that at least this gain Would result from throwing the writ into the Hundred of Bassetlaw, that gentlemen of character would be returned, upon whom dependence would be placed, and that cor ruption could not easily exist among 2,000 vntera. It bad been said that it was the intention of Ministers to conci liate a Noble Duke by throwing open the Hundred ; but under existing circumstances, there was, perhaps, no man in the country they would he less desirous to oblige. Lord J. RUSSELL eontended, that the opening of the Hundred would he but a petty, paltry, insignificant re.- form, and liable to the imputation that the House was en deavouring to keep the representation fa the hands of the aristocracy, while it overlooked the paramoua claims of Hit mingliam, Leeds, and other manufacturing places. He begged to give notice that when, on Monday, the Hors. Member for Herta should move for leave to bring in a Bill to give the writ to the Hundred of Bassetlaw, he (Lord J. R.) would take the sense of the House upon the ques tion ; and if he were successful, follow it up by a 11111 to disfranchise East Retford, leaving it as a matter for future decision whether the writ should be given to Biesaipparn, Leeds, or Manchester. Mr. FERGUSSON opposed the motion. Mr. TENNYSON argued that a sufficient ease of moral guilt had been established against East Retford, and ex pressed his satisfaction at the course of which notice had been given by the Noble Lord (J. Russell). He recom mended that as the motion of the Hon. Member for Herts was fixed for Monday, it would be better if the Hon. Mover (Mr. Fane) would postpone for a fortnight or three weeks his present motion, in order that time might be afforded for discussion. He also suggested to the Right (;lent. (Mr. Peel), that as he proposed last year to' give one borough to the landed interest and another to the corn in.ercial interest, so, as there were now two Members, one of them might be assigned to a commercial town, and the other to an agricultural district. He moved as an amend ment. " That the Speaker do not issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown for a new Writ for East Retford until this day three weeks." Lord NORMANBY supported the amendment. Sir J. WROTTESLEY and Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN also joined in recommending the Mon. Member (Mr. Fane) to withdraw his motion. FANE, in a low tone of voice, intimated his as sent to 1;,:a proposal. After a few ;77ords from Mr. S. BOURNE, and Mr. Se cretary PEEL, tine I ;:ntion was withdrawn. POOR LAWS IN IRELAND. Mr. V. STUART, in rising to introduce the motion of which he had given notice, respecting the policy of intro ducing the poor laws into Ireland, said, whatever supe riority the peasantry of England appear to enjoy —and, in point of ftct, do enjoy—over the peasantry of Ireland, has grown up and matured under a compulsory provision for the poor, and the wretchedness and misery of the sis ter country is the result of its poor being neglected and unprovided for by law, and being left to such relief as chance or private charity might throw in their way. The fast is, that the poor of Ireland must be supported either by private charity or by plunder and pillage. He asked which of these two courses was least objectionable. He asked likewise whether a fixed provision for the poor was not preferable to that casual benevolene.e which was prone to relieve the importunate object of charity, and to leave the retiring, the blind, and the bedridden, to pine away in unrelieved poverty and anguish. He knew that it would be asserted that there was no inherent right in the poor to demand maintenance at the hands of the rich. In answer to that assertion, he would say, that if it were matter of consequence to Ireland to maintain tranquillity and to se cure property, it did appear to him that without being guilty of a moral as welt as political solecism, the House could not fail to take into ita•tionsideratian the pt.invt of the poor in Ireland. He would now consider the principle of the poor laws as applicable to Ireland ; and with that view be would advert to an argument often used...-namely, that whatever had been effected for the poor of England by those laws would have been effected without them, inasmuch as the fear of want in old age, and the desire to better himself, which is inherent to every man, would in themselves have been sufficient incentives to the practice of industry and frugality. Now the actual condition of It:eland affords an excellent refutation of that argument : it fornishes irre fragable proof that without some system of poor jaws, the extremest carelessness will pervade the lower classes of the population, who require the interference of the Legis lature to direct them to the observation of their own in terests, about which they are habitually indifferent. Such being the case, what became of the argument, that the poor laws tended to debase the condition and the habits of the labouring class:s ? He denied that they had any such tendency in general. They might have such an effect, in some particular instances, but generally they tended to raise the condition and the chaeacter of the poor, by rendering him independent of his employer. He thought that he was not going too far when he sad that in Ms country in the world, (save in Ireland), would it be tolerated that the landlords should arrogate to themselves all the advantages of the labour of their feliow.eountry men, without giving any thing to them in return: and yet, without a system of poor laws, what was tkere to bind an Irish landholder to rescue his fellow-countryman from disease and poverty, or even from absolute starva tion? Hence it was, that he was so often indifferent to their distressed situation, if indeed he happened to hear of it in the distant country in which he was sojourn ing. Hence it was that he called in the aid of the poor laws to make the absentee landlord identify him self with the tenantry on his estate,—a consummation which, desirable as it was on many accounts, was not the less desirable as being conducive to the circulation among them of the money which he extracted from them. With such an auxiliary, the labourer is enabled to make a fair b a rgain with his employer: without it, the employer, ending it advantageous to get labour cheap, limits the al lovrance to the labourer to the cheap allowance of rags, ewe!, and potatoes ; such is, in putrid, the fate of the Irish labourer. The villifish labourer, on the contrary, knowing that the pith is bound to provide him with bread, lodging, and meat, threatens fearlessly to thiow himself on the poor-raters unless be receives-an equivalent for his labour. The evil of the Irish system, namely, the potatoe-minimum, did not stop here ; for the potatoe, though a very productive esculent, was liable to blight and frost in the winter, and always fell off in the spring sea son. You could not preserve it by any exertions foranore than a year; and if there happened to be a failure in the new crop, where then were the stores for the subsistence of the poor? The granary may be full to overflowing, but of what advantage is it to them ? Their labour is paid for in the potatee, and they are therefore unable to purchase bread. Hence he would say that if bread was the staff of life, the potatoe was nothing but its crutch. - Let the House inquire how the different systems worked, which were adopted in the two countries. And first in Ireland. Bad times come : what, then, is the state of the Irish operatives? They hang about the factory, from which they have been discharged, as long as they enter tain hopes of being again employed there. At last the exhaustion of their funds compels them to seek agricultural, instead of manufacturing employment. They either look for it in their own country, or they cross the water to look for it here. In the mean time a better season aro rives, and then where are your good operatives? Gone no one knows where, and the Irish manufacturer closes his market from the consciousness of his inability to com pete with the English manufacturer. Now consider the different state of things in England. When bad times come, the English manufacturer places his men on half I work, relief is got for them from the parish ; they are thus left on the spot, and they go on waiting for better times. Who then, in possession of capital, would fix upon Ireland as the place in which he would expend it? For these reasons he was convinced that the Irish labourer must either be raised to the level of the English, or the English labourer would sink to the level of the Irish. No thing could be done for Ireland without enabling the Irish labourer to purchase the comforts and luxuries of life to ' the same extent as the English labourer. He was con vinced that tlsis could only be obtained by extending to Ireland the system of poor laws which existed in England from 1605 to 1795 ; and which had raised it to a state of industry and frugality superior to that of any other country in the world. Such a system would increase the price of labour in Ireland, and would thus tend to the general tranquillity and prosperity of that country. If the wages of the labourer, which he would take at sd. a day now, were increased, as he expected that they would be increased by such a measure, to 16d. a day, it would not be unbecoming to the House to consider the beneficial effect which such an i improvement in his condition, would have upon the re venue. He had no doubt, that if a good system of poor laws, free from the defects of the English system, were introduced into Ireland, property in that country would be increased tenfold irf value, and that the landlords of Ireland would hail the day with triumph, which enabled them to exchange a poor law for a pauper system. The Hon. Member concluded by moving, amid loud cheering, the following resolution :—" Resolved, that this House is of opinion, that it is expedient to take into its early con sideration, in the next session of Parliament, the condition of the poor of Ireland, with a view to consider the pro piiety of introducing into that country a system of poor Lows, subject to such modifications as Parliament may think proper to enact, with reference to the peculiar cir cumstances of that country." Lord F. L GOWER wished to avoid pledging the Go vernment in any way upon its course respecting this ques tion. Every Member of Parliament was aware of the mass and the value of the evidence which the House had col lected on the condition of Ireland. In the reports to which he was alluding, he found but a very small portion of evi dence bearing directly, though he admitted that much of it bore by implication, upon this subject, Strange to say, that evidence, little though it was, appeared to him to tell strongly against the motion of the Hon. Member. He alluded particularly to the evidence given by Mr. Delacour, who was one of the warmest and most enthusiastic friends of Ireland. It was upon these grounds that he should take the liberty to move the previous question, not meaning thereby to express any hostility to the motion of the Hon. Member for Waterford, nor intending to pledge the Government upon it either on one side or on the other. Mr. W. HORTON could not but regret that his non. Friend the Member for the County of Waterford had restricted Ills motion to the consideration of the pro priety of introducing a system of poor laws into Ire land ; and he was equally sorry that the Noble Secre tary had met that motion with the previous question, as it-prevented the House from .taking into its con sideration the whole condition of the poor in Ireland. IHis Hon. Friend appeared to be of opinion that the true solution of the difficulty consisted in the introduction of the poor laws into Ireland,--a system from which he augured the utmost advantages and the removal of a con siderable part of the evils that at present afflicted that unhappy country. He concurred with his Hon. Friend, in thinking that it was impossible to contemplate as per manent, a difference in the condition of the labouring classes of the two countriez, The question was, should we introduce the English poor laws into Ireland in a me dified shape, or destroy the poor laws in England, and place the two countries on a par in this respect ? No one could say that in this go9ntry the poor laws ought to be pot an end to: the only matter remaining for our consi deration was a choice of the time for introducing the poor laws into tretaxil He would here observe that he had a motion on the subject of pauperism in Ireland, which stood upon the paper for this evening, but he had no in tention to bring it forward upon the present occasion.— However, be could not avoid availing himself pf the oppor tunity to press upon the House the paramount necessity of no longer delaying to look deeply into the subject.— Enaigration, it must be admitted ; was calculated to clear away some of the difficulties of the case, But to suppose that any body favourable to emigration enter tained so extravagant a notion as that its adoption would introduce such an improvement in human affairs as would remove the state of poverty in which a mul -1 titude of individuals must necessarily be placed, was altogether absurd. All he contended for was, that want and poverty might be alleviated, not removed, by adopting that conpiutly with other measures.-- He might be asked, " Did he ever expect that there would not be distress in manufacturing districts 7" He admitted it was impossible so to adjust the supply and demand as not to have occasional distress. Every branch of industry was so full of hands, that when a stagnation took place in any particular one, the persons previously employed in it could not be absorbed in other departments of labour, and thus pauperism was created, The Hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Sadler), told us, in one of his publications, that the emigrations which took place under the auspices and upon the principles of Government, had been attended by death and misery to the unhappy persons who went out, and that those who recommended the system were cruel heartless beings, who, in the pride of philosophy, chose to make these cold-blooded experimeots.--.( Hear, hear.) —lt would be only fair in the Hon. Member to come forward and say on what authority he had made such statements,— (Cheers.)--Certaioly it was the peculiar care of the Emi gration Committee to 84ActiOn PO proceeding calculated to produce gents dogribed by the Hon. Member. He granted the Hon. Member to prothice Lia authority for at tackierg men as honourable as himself, and of as good in tentions, bleu whom, nevertheless, the Hon. Gentleman had endeavoured to heap obloquy, for what he must say bad never taken place. The Right Hon. Gentleman pro ceeded to refer to the reports of Colonel Cockburn end Captain Basil Hall, as to the state of the amadian settlers, for the purpose of showing the prosperity of those indivi duals, and the success with which emigration had been carried into effect. The Hon. Member said, it would be infinitely cheaper and better to do all this at home. If any one could satisfy us that the bogs of Ireland might be re claimed, as the Hon. Member appeared to think they might, he would show us an immense treasure within our grasp in the very heart of the country. So far was lie (Mr. W. Horton) from believing that immense reclama tions might not be made in Ireland, that he believed the contrary to be the fact, and thought government could not do a wiser Act than to make the experiment. There were millions of acres of waste lands, which if they could be successfully cultivated, would add materially to the resources of ' the country.—(Hear.)— Th 6 Hon. Gent. supposed that the Emigration Committee were foolish enough to imagine that Ireland could not pro duce oofficient food for the support of its population. The Emigration Committee said no such thing. It was one thing for a country to produce foot/ enough for its popu lation, and another for tire population to have money to purchase it. Irish corn was naturally sold to the best bidder, and thus found its way into the English market. How could the pour among tire population of Ireland ob tain it, except it were provided fca- them by poor laws, or the rate of wages were raised ? Yet if we introduced the poor laws into Ireland' in its present state, and under existing circumstances, they might prove an aggra vation of the earn; those laws would prevent many land , lords from obtaining sixp,ince from their estates. He said he thought the effect of them would be to encroach con siderably upon the rental of the Irish landlord. Other parties, who at pent derived benefit from the landlords, would suffer in consequence of their curtailed means, and thus the measure would prove a transfer rather than an abolition of pauperism. But if it were possible to settle the rate of wages in a satisfactory rpanur by coleniptioo, or any other means, then would be the time to introduce a modified system of poor laws. In proposing remedies for the evils that afflicted the country, one man said remit 5,000,000/. of taxation ; another said alter the corn laws; a third proposed to do away with sinecurists (he hardly knew where they were to be found); all they, remedies must necessarily be inoperative so long as the population continued redundant. With respect to colonisation, he considered it almost the only remedy that could be applied with a prospect of success : it should be employed, not to the suppression of other remedies, but conjointly with the most promising of them : lie was convinced it ought to receive a fair trial. In every point of view it merited at-, tention ; and, for his own part, he believed it to be the sole remedy. He should be most happy to hear that Go•, vernment was willing to look into the subject with a view to its adoption.—(The Right Hon. Gentleman Was loudly cheered in the course and at the conclusion of .his speech.) Mr. SADLER never meant to descend to personalities in the observations which he had made, and to which the Right Hon. Gentleman bad alluded. He had alluded to the principle supported by the advocates of emigration, and to its effects, which he maintained to be cruel and disastrous, as a reference to the facts would show. It was true he thought the Right Hon. Gentleman wrong in his notions of population, but he approached the emigration Committee with no feelings of dislike : indeed, he had paid them a greater compliment than one man in a hun dred thousand ; for he had read the whole of their reports (hear, and a laugh,) which although they had swelled into the size of a family bible, were not of an equally sacred character with that holy volume, and were therefore sus ceptible of objections. He had written the book referred to in great haste; he regretted if any thing contained in it had been the means of wounding the mind of a single individual. He entertained the greatest respect for the individual Members of the Emigration Committee, but he would not be debarred from exercising his judgment on the subject of their opinions. The Hon. Member pro ceeded to allude to the emigration which took place from the south of Ireland to Canada, in 1825 (he afterwards said 1823), under the direction of Mr. Peter Robinson, who selected nearly 2,000 persons from a number amount ing to at least 50,000, with a view to the ages and cir cumstances most consistent with the utmost degree of health and longevity. No doubt every care was taken is the management of the emigrants. The zeal of Mr. Robinson was recorded in the third report of the Emigration Committee, in which the locations in question were described at large, and their prosperity and happiness alluded to. But if there were any truth in his authorities, matters were directly the reverse with regard to these set tlers. Among 1,945 individuals (the number of the settlers), there occurred in the space of about a year 131 deaths--( Hear)—and a considerable number were ill of va rious diseases. Thus, instead of there being one death in 69, as was the case in Wales, or 1 in 57, as in England, in this prosperous and happy colony the deaths were in the proportion of 1 in 14 of the population. (Hear, hear.) Having such documents in his possession, was it to be said he bad made use of any undue severity in his remarks ? On the contrary, he thoughtthe Emigration Committee somewhat indebted to him for suppressing the facts of which he was in possession. Mr. W. HORTON.—They are in the report itself. Mr. SADLER (in continuation)—Well then, what be came of the statements put forth by the Committee as to the prosperity of the settlement, when an account of these deaths were contained in their own report? It was plain they . s had not examined the documents annexed to their own reports. If they did, they might be led to believe that he intended to bring an accusation of cruelty against them ; but lie had made none, and did not mean to make any. Having made out his case,—proved that there had been a useless waste of human life,—he now contended that emigration was not necessary. We had 30,000,000 acres of uncultivated land in our European dominions, 15,000,000 of which were capable of profitable cultivation : it would be better to employ our capital in reclaiming these exten sive tracts than in encouraging emigration. The Hon. Member concluded by expressing his intention, in the course of the present, or early in the next Session, to afford the House an opportunity of putting his principles upon this subject to the teat. Mr. W. HORTON said the mortality in the case re ferred to was owing to want of management; the emigrants were landed at an unhealthy season, in consequence of which a great number of them were lost. Mr. SADLER reiterated his former statement, and ob served, that notwithstanding the mortality, the location was described as being in a happy and prosperous condition. Mr. S. RICE resisted the introduction of poor laws into Ireland, because they were vicious in system, inde fensible in practice, had failed in this country, must inflict deep injury on the landholders, and were calculated to ag gravate the evils of the people instead of diminishing them. It was erroneous to say that the poor were unprovided for in Ireland : there were assessments for the promotion of education, and for the maintenance of foundlings ; houses of industry were supported by local rates—every county in Ireland bad one or more county infirmaries. Thus pro vision was mane for the young, the sick, the old, the im potent, and also for the lunatic poor. It had been said that the introduction of poor laws in Ireland would have the effect of raising the wages of labour. In answer to this it was only necessary to look at Sussex. There poor rates were at the highest, and wages at the lowest. In other 'counties, where the rates were moderate, wages were proportionately better. He would have had no objection to an inquiry into this subject, but he could not consent, at this period of the session, to hold out a prospect to Ire land that Parliament would consent to the measure pro posed. Remedies might he devised for the relief of the lower classes; he concurred in the opinion that emigra tion wee one of those remedies. Another remedy might be found in public works, which might bring to light new powers of production in Ireland. Any disposition on the part of the House to entertain the proposed measure would, he thought, be fatal to the peace of the country. Mr. G. DAWSON was convinced that if once the system of poor laws, as established in England, was ex tended to Ireland, no property would be worth possessing there;—that it would extinguish industry, and produce universal misery. The proposition of the Hon. Member came at a peculiaely unfortunate time, when it was de sirable to allay all popular excitement. What the poor of Ireland wanted was employment, not poor laws ; and if English capitalists were encouraged to go there, the cheap ness of labour, and the numerous facilities of the country in respect to internal trade, would soon produce employ ment. It was better, therefore, to wait, and not to throw out a new subject of agitation anti unsettle men's minds. The Hoe. Member here adverted to the pamphlet of the lion. Member for Newark (Mr. Sadler), which had been referred to, observing, that of all the publications be had ever read on this subject, it appeared to him to the most intelligent ; he was, indeed, astonished to see an English gentleman display such a knowledge of the subject, and such real liberality, except in his abuse of landlords. With respect to the subject before the House, he did not bind himself to any specific proposition : although a modifi cation of the poor laws, as they stood in the reign of Elia rbeth, might be useful in Ireland, the adoption of our present system, of maintaining able-bodied men by contributions from estates, would occasion incalculable in jury to tire-country. _ Sir F. BURDETT thought that the measure of relief should be combined with colonization or with emigration, for they were perfectly distinct, though often confounded. By colonization he meant the transpoitatiou of persons from Ireland to our fine colonies, which would produce the greatest possible benefit to the country, and was, fact, the only remedy for the evils under which it laboured. The greater part of the evils of the present system of affairs in Ireland was attributable to the excessive and abundant population of Ireland. Catholic emancipation itself was of no import, compared with the employment of the superfluous population of Ireland.—(llear. )—But here his roust confess he felt the proposition of the lion, Member for Newark was worse than futile; for who would con sent to cultivate, Emelt less to purchase for the sake of cultivating, barren lands ? The distresses of Ireland arose out of the unfortunate mismanagement of the people of landed estates there. They were as rich often as English proprietors, and had been treated with manifest indulgence by the united legislature with respect to taxation. In the great question of taxation on property, the Irish proprietary bad been exempted altogether ; and no income tax had been levied on the landed proprietors of Ireland. The law of primogeniture was notoriously the cause of the excessive wealth of England. The motion of the Hon. Member for Waterford, in his mind, did him infinite honour, be cause its effect would be to tax himself largely for the in - - terests of the public. After such an example, he trusted. Parliament would not break up without probing the sub ject to the bottom. It was high time that something should be done, and with that view he should strenuously support the motion of his llon. Friend. Mr. JAMES GRATTAN considered the question as a given up question altogether. The plans of the Right Hun, Gentleman in 1821, and subsequently, were totally unsuitable to Ireland. The proposed system of emigration accompanied by a grant of public money, to the amount of a million sterling, was erroneous in principle, and must be defective in operation. Mr. S. RICE e xplained. Mr. BROWNLOW could not agree in some of the points laid down by the lion. Member to? Londonderry. He could not help fearing for the conselueneea atten d ant on severing the poor of Ireland from its soil, which would, in his mind, be an unavoidable consequence of the system which had been so plausibly recommended to the House. From the reports before the Legislature, it was clear that nothing in Europe, perhaps is the world, could surpass the deprivation and absolute wretchedness of the Irish I peasant. To relieve this, no adequate effoit Was made on the part of the landed proprietary of thi country ; inso much so, that in a district wLere distress and sickness strongly appealed to the feeling of the proprietors of the soil who collected a rental of 80,0001., only SO/. could be procured, despite the piercing cries of wretchedness which so loudly challenged the sympathies of the wealthy and the exempt absentee. He trusted that his Majesty's Ministers would direct their attention to this subject, and that by the next Session the Right Hen. Gent. opposite (Mr. Peel) would be prepared to bring forward some measure of this description calculated to meet the case of Ireland, and to remedy the evils which existed there. He (Mr. B.) would not be for stopping here. He would carry the poor laws in Ireland further ; he would extend them further, and introduce what he believed to be the true Elizabeth system of the English poor laws into Ireland.--(Hear.).— He believed that labour was the foundation, the true origi nal principle of the Act of Elizabeth ; and all the prac tical evils and abuses which might have subsequently crept into the administration of that system of laws in England, could be easily avoided in Ireland. He would make la bour, he would make employment, the basis of such a system on introducing it into Ireland. But it was said, that if the poor laws were introduced into Ireland, the ren tals of the landlords would be completely eaten up by them. Even if that should turn out to be the case, he would say that it would be better than that a whole people, a whole nation, should be left in a state of starvation. It was to the rental of the country, he was ready to avow, that he would attach the poor-rates in Ireland.—(Hear.) —Notwithstanding the speeches of his Hon. Friends, the Members for Wicklow and Limerick, he (Mr. Brownlow) would say, that rent was excessively and cruelly high in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.)—He only asserted a fact, which every writer upon the statistics of Ireland, from the time of Spenser to Mr. Wakefield, and Mr. Curwen, the late Member for Cumberland, acknowledged, when he saw that the rents in Ireland were excessively high, and that the last penny was screwed out of the unfortunate people of Ireland.—(An Hon. Member in the seat behind Mr. Brownlow cried " Name, name.") Mr. Brownlow said he should decline to perform the in vidious task which his Hon. Friend wished to cast upon him.—(Cheers.)—He would decline to name particular individuals, or to state particular instances, but he would assure the House that the fact was so as he had stated it.— (Hear. )—He knew well, that as long as the landlords could get their rents they would not burden themselves with the support of the poor. The fact was, that Hon. Members must get their hands into the pockets of these men, for they would not put them there themselves—(Cheers and a laugh)—and force them to contribute to the maintenance of the poor of the country. They must bring back the absentees to Ireland by making their property sub ject to assessment for the support of the poor there.— They would be induced to return if a system of poor laws were introduced there, fur the purpose of look ing after the affairs of their parishes, attending at the vestries, seeing how the rates were assessed and collected, and taking a part in the management of the parochial affairs. By making the rental of the country contribute to the sup port of the poor, the landlord, as he had just said, would rather employ the labourers who might be out of employ ment on his own estate, than have them employed at the expense of the parish. The demand for labour would thsrefi,re increase, and wages would rise in proportion to that demand. He would give his zealous support to the application of such a system as he had described to the condition of Ireland. He was sure that such a measure would meet with the almost unanimous support of the English Members of that House, when they reflected upon the inequality of the rate of wages in the two countries—a labourer receiving sd. a day in Ireland, who was paid at the rate of Is. 6d. in England ; and when they knew that this inequality must sooner or later end in reducing the rate of wages in both countries to one common level, ruin ously prejudicial to the English labourer and peasant. Englishmen were proverbial for their generosity to Ira land. In the .year of the great distress there, upwards of 300,0001. was transmitted from this country to support her starving- population; and in the same year provisions to the amount of 4,000,0001. in value were exported from Ireland to England. He was sure that Englishmen, both in this House and in fhe country generally, would be just as well as generous.—(Hear, hear.) Atrt SLANEY would support the introduction of a sys tem into Ireland, which, avoiding the unsound portions of the poor laws of this country, adopted the sound principle of maintaining the aged, the infirm, and the impotent, and which supplied employnient to unemployed able-bodied labourers. General GASCOYNE suggested the propriety of ad journing the debate on this question till to-morrow. Mr. PEEL said, that if there were not a number of other gentlemen anxious to deliver their sentiments on this question, it would be as well not to adjourn the debate. General GASCOYNE proceeded to address the House in support of the motion of the Hon. Member for Water ford. He contended that it was absolutely necessary that som e modified system of poor laws should be introduced into Ireland ; and he expressed a hope that a measure of that description would be introduced next session by his Majesty's Ministers. He should certainly vote for the motion of the Hon. Member for Waterford, if it went to a division. Mr. PEEL, in voting for the previous question, wished not to be understood as expressing any decided opinion as to the principle or the merits of the proposition which had been advocated by the Hon. Member for Waterford. He voted for the previous question, as he much doubted the Policy of the House of Commons pledging itself in one session to pursue any particular course in the next session of Parliament. He denied that he had during the last session expressed an opinion favourable to the application of the poor laws to Ireland : on the contrary, be then said that he saw great difficulty in the way of introducing the English system of poor laws into Ireland. He was certain that if they introduced the system as it at present existed in England into Ireland,—if they established there overseers, parochial vestries, and select vestries,—that all this machinery would be only converted into a complete system of local jobbing. His Hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool had misunderstood what had fallen from him last session respecting the expediency of introducing sonic system of poor laws into Ireland. What he said on that occasion he would then repeat,—namely, that he thought due deliberation and caution should be used in applying the machinery of the English parochial relief system to a country situated like Ireland. Without offering any bind ing opinion, er pledging himself to any specific proposi tion in relation to the poor laws in Ireland, be would say, that he feared that in the present circumstances of that country the right of parish relief to every able-bodied la bourer who could not procure employment, would absord its entire rental, and make general its pauperism. The question was still open to inquiry, but was one that should not be too hastily decided upon, and on which he repeated he would not pledge himself, but would vote for the pre vioust-gnestioes. ' - Mr. tuskrssoicr with his Right Hon. Friend that it would then be premature to decide on the merits of the Hon. Member for Waterford's propositions, and that the more prudent course was to obtain full information of its peculiar bearings on the condition of Ireland. That so ing system of relief for the po or o f th at country, he was ; a iWsvas, or, if not, soon would be, the general convic tion of the House ; but he agreed with the Hon. Member for Newark that to be beneficial it should be brought for ward by the Government, aft er mature deliberation. rslr. TRANT thought that Ireland required some sys tem of poor laws, and hoped that such would be the opi nion ol the Legislature before next Session. Lord MILTON doubted very much the policy of intro ducing any system of poor laws into Ireland at all analogous to that force in England, and trusted that if any should be introduced, it would be free from the manifold abuses of the lauded English system. Lord PALMERSTON also doubted. r, rather, had no doubt of the impolicy—very much whether the adop tion of the Hon. Member for Waterford's proposition would not aggravate the evil it was intended to remedy. Mr. VAN HOMRIGH defended the Irish landlords as an indulgent and liberal body of men. Mr. V. STUART, as he understood the subject would be taken into serious consideration by his Majesty's Govern ment, would not press his motion further. Mr. PEEL hoped it would be understood that he had given no pledge whatever as to the intention of Govern ment to introduce any measure on this subject. He ad mitted that the condition of the poor of Ireland required serious consideration ; but he had not pledged Goverr.- meat to the recognition of any particular system for their relief. m r . V. STUART observed, that he understood the tenonr of the Right Hon. Gentleman's remarks to be pre cisely as he had now stated. The motion was then withdrawn. SILK BILL. Mr. V. FITZGERALD moved the third reading of the a bove Bill. He hoped that the urgency of the occasion would be received as a justifi cat i on f or mak i ng th i s mot i on at so late an hour, To his oval certain knowledge, several masters of the first respectability meant to suspend their orders until the Bill had left that House. Mr. FYLER hoped a Bill which affected ,the interests of 3,000,000 of persons would not be pressed forward ; but he would submit to the feeling of the House. Mr. ROBINSON having already expressed his hostility to .the Bill, and feeling that further opposition would be useless, would not oppose the third reading. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN meant to oppose the motion, because many gentle.aen, who intended to deliver their sentiments on the Bill, were absent. Mr. DAVENPORT and Mr. E. DATENrcinT opposed the third reading ofthe Bill. Mr. P. THOMSON thought it was not right to post pone the third reading of the. Bill.. Mr. PEEL said, that the interests of the manufac turers, the interests of the 'workmen'themselves, and the public tranquillity, called for the immediate passing of this Bill.—(Hear, hear.)—The public outrages which had lately taken place were, he knew, perpetrated for the pur pose of intimidating the LegiAature against agreeing to this measure ; and he was convinced that emir-day it was de layed would add to the number of thette 4 Ntaitgts. Mr. V. FITZGERALD observed, that stiir a Minister of the Crown had declared that the passing of this Bill was necessary for the public tranquillity, if that tranquil lity were disturbed, those persons must be considered ac countable for it who had prevented the Bill from going through its last stage on this occasion. The Bill was then ordered to be read a third time this day (Friday). The House adjourned at Two o'clock. FINE ARTS. SPIRIT OF THE PLAYS OF SHAKSPEARE. By F. HOWARD. 'No. XII. Mr. Howard, with a spirit and perseverance that we cannot too highly commend, has here pre sented us with another number of his Shakspearian Illustrations, which we should have noticed long ere this, had not the late extraordinary and unpre cedented mass of Parliamentary intelligence en grossed our columns to the exclusion of all other matters. The present number consists of illustra tions of the " Two Gentlemen of Verona," and " Love's Labour Lost," both which plays, as the reader will probably recollect, abound in rich and various materials for the artist. Mr. Howard has made the most of these, and put forth a number no wise inferior to his former series. Indeed, in the delineation of character, we are inclined to think it the best he has yet published. Our limits will not permit us to particularize further. LITERATURE. THE FOREIGN REVIEW.—No. VI. This periodical is rapidly improving in the extent, quality, and variety of its information. We have few, if any, of those prosing though learned papers that filled the earlier numbers ; these have made way for dissertations equally well-informed, but of a more condensed and judicious character. The first article, headed " Russia, Turkey, and India," is penned in a strong spirit of hostility to the Russians. The author sketches the progress of that immense Empire from the reign of Peter the Great down to the campaign against the Turks last year— dwelling with particular force on the subjugation of Sweden and the dismemberment of Poland— and views throughout its gradual advance towards civilization and European influence, nothing but treachery, bravado, sycophancy, and intolerable despotism. The present position of Russia, with regard to Persia, is traced with an able hand ; the author scouts the idea that the latter Power can possibly be subjugated by the former, observing that— " Though the regular army of the Persians be small, the country is most difficult of invasion or conquest. Leaving out of the question the astonishing scarcity of water, the Persians are capable of giving such a reception to the Muscovite hordes, as they themselves once gave the French on the occasion of their memorable and disastrous retreat from Moscow. Prince Abbas Mirza has organized an army of somewhere near 30,000 men after the European disci pline, and the registered militia amounts to about 70 or 80,000 cavalry, and 150,000 infantry and when we consider that every man is a soldier by habit, and that there ate innumerable tribes of rugged, untameable wan derers, who would shed the last drop of their blood for those hills and vallies, endeared to their hearts, by the en thralling superstitions of youth, and the tenderest recol lections of manhood, we may naturally conclude, that Persia is a country invulnerable either to the force, or the golden bribes of any European assailant. Persia, to be subjugated, must be civilized, and that consummation must be the work of centuries, inasmuch as she has, of late years, rather retrograded than advanced in the path of in tellectual culture ; and, indeed, ere any form or order can be introduced into the country, Alcides must assume a se cond incarnation, for the purpose of cleansing all their abominable Augaean stables of dreadful corruption, in reli gion, in morals, and in polity. But even supposing that civilization were practicable, the time necessary for its ef fectual operation would be so considerable, that many mighty revolutions may have worked their evils in Russia, and shattered the empire of the haughty Czars into frag ments. That Persia was conquered by the armies of the Macedon youth,' is most true; but Persia was then a compact kingdom, and the inhabitants obeyed him for want of some other claimant, whose title should be more indefeasible. At present the country is divided amongst a thousand tribes of hardy warriors, ready and capable of hurling destruction through the ranks of any insolent invader." On the subject of the Turkish campaign the Reviewer is equally sceptical. The downfall of Constantinople, he conceives, is not yet at hand, least of all will its conquest be achieved by the Russians during the reign of the present Emperor. " If," says our author, " Nicholas persist in the war, ruin must finally be his re ward, and if Russia remain at peace, ere half a century shall have progressed over her head, she will have become more-of-im---Asiatic -than a European power." " Symbolism and Mytho logy " is a rambling, speculative, metaphysical sort of dissertation, fitter for a single volume than the necessarily limited pages of a periodical. It is replete with knowledge, drawn from an in finite number of sources with much pains, no doubt, and adroitness, but the subject is of far too visionary and comprehensive a character to be adequately discussed in a single paper. Klopstock's Life and Odes" is intelligent and interesting, giving us a delightful picture of the author of the Messiah in his private life, parti cularly of his strange platonic amour with Fanny Schmidt, a young lady who it seems would gladly have met with more nature and less platonism in her imaginative admirer. " Arabian Literature " is a delightful paper, full of novelty and entertainment. Our only regret. is, that it is short. " Voltaire " is a lucid, impartial, and comprehensive analysis of the mind of one of the most extraordinary writers that the modern world has seen. The author is full-inform e d w i t h hi s subject ; there is no hesitation, no obscurity, no special pleading in his rem ar k s ; h e spea k s out manfully, and with considerable effect. The leading defect in Voltaire's mind, he considers to be his want of earnestness, of that intense power which at once enables its possessor to attain the e mpyreum of intellect. His adroitness, however, i n c oncealing the weak side of an argument, od et putting forth all its strong poittts, the Rene! looks on as unrivalled. We quote the ing remarks in allusion t o th e "French Revolu tion ;" they ar e m ar ked by a -k een !pint of sagacity : " Voltaire has many e l emen t s o f goo d ness , butosti .fig loosely ; nothing is combined in steadfist. - ttitiee; 1 1 11 true, he presents in gene ra l a sur f ace o f smoo th ne ss, el 6"?.. tured regularity; yet, under it, there is not the rock-bound strength of a world ; but the wild .tiunnits U f a chaos are ever bursting through. He is a tnea u t power, but not of b e n e fi c i en t au th or it y; we fear, bu t cannot reverence him ; we feel him to be st,ontgerf higher. Much of this spirit snort sion might be due to nat ;, I"; is due to the age into w h re of diseprd and ; tbeapproaeb o • ••• 3 a j human affairs. Already we discern in ; - • „ of the French R evo l u ti on ; an d wonder, eq forget iow entangled and hidden themeaning"ef the Pr sent generally is to us, that all men did not foresee "1 comings on of th a t f ear f u l convu l s i on . O n t h e on e hal t ' a high all-attempting activity of intellect; the tnee. retnptory spirit of i nqu i r y a b roa d on every subject; t lll ,'lr human and things di v i ne a lik e c it e d w i t h out wileglih before the sam e b oas tf u l t r ib una l o f so - ca ll e d reason, if.lPuin means here a merely argumentative logic; the street mind excluded from his regular influeock in the AfilL e. and deeply conscious of that injury.- Ott . the. o 7 . . hand, a privil e g e d f ew , s t rong i n t h e su bj ect i on o f many, yet in itself weak; a piebald, and for Most lam. g altogether decrepid battalion, of clergy, of purblind '. 1 bility, or rather of courtiers, for as yet the nobility mostly on the other side: these cannot fight with le& and the day of persecution is well nigh done. cbd: whole force of law, indeed, is still in their hands* 4 7, the far deeper force, which alone gives efficacy to law, hourly passing away from them. Hope animates and side ; fear the other ; and the battle will be fierce IP' desperate. For there is wit without wisdom on the part of the self-styled philosophers ; feebleness with eiteeres tion on the part of their opp onen t s; pr id e enoug h ee hands, but little magnanimity; perhaps n where 0 1 pure love of truth, only every where the puma, MOSt Ire dent love of self. In such a state of things, therekt abundant principles of discord : these two,:afluenceeitnt like fast-gathering electric clouds, as yet _Ws oppee7: - , 0 , sides of the horizo n , b u t w ith a ma li gn ity of .013".,.41,41 which boded, whenever they mi g ht mee t, a. -sky 04'11 41 and blackness, thunderbolts to waste the earth, as f sun and stars, though b u t f or a season , t o b e .btu 79 1 i / 9 9 1 i from the heavens. For there is no conducting to unite softly these hostile elements ; there , ie • virtue, no true wisdom, on the one side Gl...the-t ' Never, perhaps, was there an epo c h, i n th e hi s t o ry o f 1 " . 1 4 world, when universal corruption called so loudly for re'- form ; and they who undertook that task were tnell insically so worthless. Not by Gracchi, but by,Cst: lines ; not by Luther., but by Aretines, was Europe to renovated. The task has been a long and bloody one; * Du is still far from done." If ever individual was the author of a 1 13- tional revolution, Voltaire was that one. He it was who collected all the sc a tt ere d e l em ents °' e discord, and sent them forth to the world con densed, and pointed, and rendered perspicuou s and intelligible, through the medium of his un rivalled ingenuity. He it was who first threw 1 0 fire-brand into the Church and State ; who mar shalled the commonality against the aristocracy of France (though he himself was from first to last an aristocrat in feeling, habit, and intellect)? who taught the people to think and act for then!'. selves, and when he had thus put arms into their hands, died and made way for the re volty tionists. That he was aware of the vast uns" chief he was creating, we doubt. Voltaire, though a keen, was not a far-sighted politician . It was his vanity that first prompted him to turn reformer ; it was his vanity that gave him power? though it sprung from weakness ; it was his vannY in short, that made him a Deist, because, in fa vouring Christianity, he imagined himself ackno.w ledging the supremacy of a Being inferior to him self. Poor—drivelling—self-opinionated—self adulatory witling ! The sh )ck he once gave—the misery he once caused to Europe has abated, while the doctrines of " that fellow," so he pre" sumptuously styles our Saviour, still continue to bless, protect, bind together, and humanize society, and will do so to remotest generations. " Brunswick and Hanover" is a recapitulation of the circumstances that occasioned the late absurdities of the Duke of Brunswick. It is an article worthy of its subject. Altogether t he present number is in every respect v a stly stiP e : rior to its predecessors, and may vie in acute ness, knowledge, variety and style, with either the Quarterly or the Edinburgh Reviews. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. FRENCH PAPERS. (From the Journal du Commerce of Tuesday.) FRONTIERS OF MOLDAVIA, APRIL 10.-It is a ffirinea that there are now 15,000 Ottoman cavalry at Odar, nea r Ghiurgevo. The Governor of that place having bee!: summoned to surrender, answered that Ghiurgevo and Rudschuk had each a garrison of 12,000 men, SSO cannons and provisions for three years—that he was resolved to defend himself as long as he had a man left. (From the Gazette de France, dated Wednesday.) BERLIN, APRIL 28. —The interview between the Em peror of Russia and the King of Prussia, fixed for the 28th of May, will take place in the Castle of Sibillen.fort, in Silesia, not far from the Castle of Trachenberg, which is celebrated as the scene of the interview between the Em peror Alexander, the King of Prussia, and the Prince Royal of Sweden, in July, ISIS. The Empress and the Grand Duke (the Emperor's eldest son) will accompanY the Emperor. The King of Prussia will have all his son s with him. The Empress will afterwards come to Berlin• to be present at Prince William's marriage, and she is ex" pected here by the 3d of June. The Gazette de France, Messager des Chambres, and Moniteur, do not contain any news whatever from Turkey or Russia. (From the Courier Francais of Tuesday.) • PARIS, MAY s.—The following is the origin of the late tragic scene which led to the death of a Deputy :.—.' 4 Th e origin of M. Plaquiol'a hatred towards M. Calemard La fayette was unfounded jealousy. This induced him to challenge the latter several times, but without effect. At the last election M. Calemard was the President of th e College of Puy, and was pointed out as the Member for the Right, although he was on the same side. 51 • Plaquiol used all his efforts to prevent his election• In the Hall of the College, he lavished insults on Calemar d, and renewed his attacks. For a long time his pecuniarY affairs had been embarrassed ; but he expected some °- sistance from the indemnification granted the emigrant" and to obtain this he made an application to the Consul's' sion of Liquidation. M. Calemard formed a part of it. Not receiving what he conceived his right, he never c eased reviling M. Calemard until he quitted Pny, a short time since, for Paris. The Captain of Gendarmerie of Haute" Loire thought he ought to inform M. Calemard of his de parture, and put him on his guard. Last Thursday he spent the evening with one of our Generals, with whom he had been at school. He con versed about his misfortunes, and spoke with some warmth against M. Calemard ; but nothing in his reproaches could at all lead any one to suspect his bloody design. He left the General with an air of gaiety, and hoped that the next visit would be from the General. On Friday a friend met him, who told him that he had 200 f. which was owing to k; him. Plaquiol said he might keep the money, for he 'I should never have any occasion for money again. On Saturday morning, a short time before he perpetratekabe murder before alluded to, he wrote to the General -above mentioned, telling him that by twelve o'clock he-should. be no longer at his hotel. He eommendedlisiFftildien to the care of the General, and requested him to setalkeeit two sons to the United States, and obtain letters of recommendation for then,. Plaquiol leaves five children. On opeping the body of M. Calemard, the laceration was so gist, that it appears inexplicable how he could have lived so long. second ball has been extracted from the left shoulder. The immediate cause of death was a hemorrhage in the left pectoral car i ty." FRENCH FuNnE,..—Rentes Five per Cents. 108 f. 25cs 1081. ; Three per Cents. 78f. 60c. ; Bank Actions, 1865 f. 1857 f. 50e. Foartast Fuwns.—Nespolitan Rester, Cert. Fal. 9 151: 25c. 40f. ; Royal Spanish Loan, i iff. ; Redeemable , 99 ; Interminable Spanish Annuities, bg 53.