The Sun. — London, England, 1860-02-08 00:00:00

were placed before the Emperor in language firm, and at ' the same time amicable, it would be calculated to produce considerable effect. (Hear, hear.) Because ' it must surely be the inte res t o f th e E m p eror t o a ttend to our re monstrances. What, let me ask, can France gain by this comparatively insignificant addition to her territory to com pensate her for the loss of confidence and the loss of charac ter which such a measure must entail ? (Cheers.) My noble friend has already adverted to the commercial treaty recently signed between this country and France. We are told that the Emperor of the French is about to adopt a liberal commercial policy, in which the treaty is the first step. But can a liberal commercial policy produce its pro per fruits unless there is that confidence in the continuance of peace which is the very breath of life to trade and indus try ? And how can that confidence in the permanence of peace exist for a day in Europe if the annexation of Savoy to France is to be carried into effect, in a manner, and upon principles which hold out to all. Europe the prospect of fur ther and indefinite changes that cannot possibly be accom plished without provoking all the horrors of war ? (Hear, hear.) I say that this annexation would produce a shock to confidence, which in France and in Europe would be felt by trade and industry for years to come. Has not the Emperor a deep interest in abstaining from this project ? • We all know that statements have been made in the news papers that this annexation is only the execution of a design long entertained though studiously concealed, We know also that it has been asserted—l trust falsely—that this would be merely the carrying into effect of a secret stipula tion entered into between Sardinia and France some con siderable time before the breaking out of the late war, by which Sardinia was to be put in possession of a great in crease of territory in Italy, and, in return for it, France was to obtain Savoy and Nice. Now, my lords, if that were true—and I trust most sincerely that it is not—it would be impossible to find terms sufficiently strong to describe the iniquity and the immorality of the two parties concerned. (Hear, hear.) When we remember the language that was used by France before the breaking out of the war—the solemn protestations of her desire, up to the last moment, to preserve peace, her asseve rations, even after the war had made some progress, that she had no selfish object in view, and had no intention of promoting her territorial aggrandisement, can we believe that all these assertions were made while at the same time there existed a private stipulation fur dividing the prey, entered into before the quarrel took place and before the booty could be obtained ? (Hear, hear.) If such a com pact were entered into between France and Sardinia, I say it would be difficult to find in the annals of the world a case of more flagrant iniquity. (Hear, hear.) I hope these things are not true. They have seemed to me so bad that I have tried as much as possible to reject them. I still do so, but I cannot deny that those who affirm them appeal to the strongest circumstantial evidence in favour of their assertions. (Hear, hear.) I hope that, in spite of appear ances, the fact is not as stated ; but if, in addition to the circumstantial evidence we have had, should this design of joining Savoy to France be carried into effect, it will be impossible, however anxious we may be to do so, longer to retain our incredulity. (Hear, hear.) If the Emperor of the French has a due regard to his own honour and character, he will be grateful if this c oun t r y s h ou ld come forward in a calm and friendly spirit to urge him to abstain from that, which I cannot find language to describe but as a crime against the civilised world. (Hear, hear.) I have taken the first opportunity that presented itself to press upon my noble friends on the Government benchmy sense of the great im portance of this question. I have done so from no invidious or hostile feeling towards them in relation to their conduct in this matter ; but when I say so I think it is the more im portant to notice_what I must call an omission of my noble friend. It must have struck all your lordships who take a view similar to my own as to the importance of this ques tion of the proposed annexation, that the language of my noble friend and that of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, as reported to have been u s ed by hi m i n ano th er place, have been singularly mild, to say the least, consider ing the gravity of the subject. (Hear, hear.) I think it is specially important that her Majesty's Government should at this moment give cordial expression to what I believe are the opinions of every Englishman on this subject. My noble friend adverted to the eommercialtreaty with France. Now, I think that before that treaty was signed—before her Majesty's Government consented to give to the Govern ment of France so signal a mark of their friendship and goodwill—they ought to have required from the French Emperor in some authentic and formal shape a distinct dis avowal of his entertaining any such designs with regard to Savoy as have been imputed to him. (Hear.) I deeply re gret that the treaty was signed without having some such disavowal as that ; but then the omission makes it the more important that we should now take some measures to obtain it; and, if in accordance with the unanimous vote of this house, and I hope of the other house of Parliament also, her Majesty's Government should even now ask for such a disavowal, I am persuaded that it will not be withheld. (Hear, hear.) I do not ask your lordships to agree to the motion if my noble friend opposes it, but I hope that my noble friend himself will see the propriety of adopting it. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said he should not have taken any part in this discussion if it were not that he enter tained the deep and anxious feeling which was evinced by the whole people of this country for the progress of Italian liberty, and hoped that it might be marked with all force by everything honourable, true, and great, by all the parties concerned on both sides. He feared that if thfe matter were allowed to reach a consummation they would sea it mixed up with other things pregnant with mischief to Europe, and placing a deep and indelible stain on the Emperor of the French and the King of Sardinia. Though not yet con summated it was still under contemplation, and there was yet time for that house, and the other house of Parliament, and the whole people of England, to declare their unani mous and decided opinion upon the subject, and to say that the project should never have their approbation. (Hear.) The French Government was now endeavouring to put the matter off, and the Sardinian Government was offering it assistance with the same view, and adducing as many argu ments as it could to prevent the completion of the scheme, and therefore now was the time for them to declare their opinion and do what they could in order to get justice f o r the weaker one in this great contest. He was anxious to niaintainan alliance with France; but if the Emperor per sisted in his demand for the annexation of Savoy, how could he reake`good the words he uttered at Milan ?—(hear, hear) --words by which he endeavoured to conciliate the feelings and affections of Europe, and which he agreed with his noble friend (Earl Granville) were some of the noblest wot da that ever fill from the lips of roan. Now, in opposition to the declaration that France went to war fur an idea, there was this idea of annexation of territory. (Hear, hear.) Thus the interests and rights of nations were merged into dynastic interestek Nor would Sardinia come out unscathed from the affair unless she arrested the attempt to the full extent of her moral power, and he would not hesitate to say her physical power also. That she should do, rather than submit to the degradation. Even Italy herself would share some measure of blame, because if the design succeeded she would be ground down between the parties and deprived of her liberties. Tho elements of mischief in this matter were most abundant. Were they to have French influence substituted for Austrian influence in Italy ? It would cer tainly be exercised in a more careful, delicate, and astute manner; and no doubt the policy of France would be more artful, but the domin ition would bo the same, and the inde pendence of Italy would be placed in equal jeopardy. Was it so then that the frontier of France was to be advanced and brought even in contact with the republic of Geneva ? Did this scheme not affect the independence of Switzerland ? (Hear, hear.) Were they to believe that the acquisition of Savoy and Nice and the beautiful port of Villafranca formed only a part of that design which would turn the Mediter ranean into a French lake ? (Hear, hear.) Then simul taneously with the contemplated annexation came the re vival of that wild scheme—the Suez Canal. That might be commercially and scientifically the most absurd thing ever propounded, and so it was ; but politically it was very dif ferent. There wou ld be a French settlement established there, and one more French port added on that side of the Mediterranean. They had heard much about natural boun daries, and been told that Savoy was claimed because it be longed as a right to France; but now another right was asserted, namely, the annexation of conterminous nations speaking the same language. If that were so the smaller nations must ultimately be absorbed not by direct violence but by diplomatic trickery. The people of England and all Europe had been subjected to one of the grossest humbugs which had ever been perpetrated on the credulity of man kind. They were told that the people of Savoy were desirous of annexation with France, and that a public meeting at Chambery pronounced in its favour. But let him remind their lordships that it was very possible for great personages to coerce priests in one country and to coax them in another. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) But there was another meeting at Chambery, at which a diametrically opposite opinion , was expresseel ; and who was to decide between the two ? Then came the assertions in the most daring part of the French press, that although the King of Sardinia was the rightful ruler of Savoy, he had yet no right to employ means to maintain his own and his people's rights. If the principle that conterminous nations, speaking the same language, were to be annexed to France, provided they showed sympathy for her, were to prevail, let them look to the consequences which might flow from its adop tion. No one who had lately travelled in Geneva could have any doubt that an agency was now at work there, by which an expression of sympathy for France could be readily ob tained; and if that principle was good, let them consider how easily the whole system of Europe might be broken up. Germany might claim from Russia the Baltic ports ; and Russia, which it was well known was not reluctant to put Ruth sympathies in motion, might claim from Austria some conterminous provinces. Everything in fact would be broken up and in confusion, and all to gratify the ambitious policy of one man, who thought that he had a new scheme to pro pound. But another inducement was held out by the French Government to Sardinia to consent to the proposition. It appeared that the French Government were to surrender to Sikinia a part of Switzerland, and that Sardinia - was to give her Savoy; and this was to be done without the con sent of the people. Was such a proposition to be maintained at the present day—was it not a revival of that principle which led to that partition of Poland under which she was now writhing ? If annexation took place at all, which God i tle rbil I th en l e t S avoy b e annexe d to S w it zer l an d , w h o had of all nations. interest in the peace of Europe and the liberty his life against (Hear.) He would protest to the last hour of stitutionetione4lhanding over a nation which enjoyed free in would protest c.? government of any despotic dynasty—he and foot to a country t handing over a free people bound hand where there was no free expression of opinion —he vs protest against handing over a counts y where religious libe it was also proclaimed but bvas proclaimed to a country in which test against the doctriniettoiren violated—he would also pro flocks of sheep, and barterel nations might be treated like hadtnd exchanged without their consent. (Cheers.) Heprotested against traffic in human flesh, and he now equally against traffic in human rights. He therefore impl Prieil'hgeti e. l d iajesty' s Govern ment, in the name of all the great '''. power to put be English people, to use every effort in consequences fore the Emperor of the French the fe e a l r r f P appeal to his of inch a measure as that contemplated —to fearful judgment, to his sagacity, and to his better he doubted not that if they did so he would bel!rmisaliatnt(! a wise conclusion. 'Hear, hear.) He believed the Government were guided' in their conduct by the I that if ciples of justice and the rights of nations they would i k. n e ; back by the unanimous voice of the people of England, this most pernicious and most disgraceful consummation. The Duke of NEWCASTLE (who rose with the Earl of Derby, and to whom the noble earl gave place), said—l shall not for more than a few moments, stand before the noble earl and your Ibrdship.; I did not rise for the pur pose of interfering with the future progress of this discus sion, but chiefly to implore you r lordships not to be led away by the tone which my noble friend has just imparted to the debate. (Hear.) We are accustomed frequently to hear honest and honourable sentiments fall from the noble earl expressed in very fervid language. He is accustomed to deal in that manner with domestic topics, in which the mischief done, if any, can be comparatively small ; but I cannot help thinking that the tendency of my noble friend's language, and the tone he has given to this debate, are `1 THE SUN, LONDON, IyEDNESDAT EVENING, FEBRUARY 8, P6O. calculated to frustrate the ohject which we all have in view in this matter. (Hear, hear.) Hoping that these questions are likely to receive a peaceable solution, I depre cate such language as he has used in reference to some of the countries concerned. I appeal to him whether he was justified in using one phrase—namely, in calling upon Sar dinia to oppose not merely with her moral influence, but with her physical power the measure now under discussion. I apprehend that observation could only have reference to war ; and I say it would net be just or honourable to call on Sardinia to enter on a war with this object unless we were fully prepared to assist Sardinia in that object. My noble friend followed two noble lords who have spoken upon this question in a different tone, although they have had the same object as he had. I can assure your lordships that while listening to the speech of the noble marquis, and still more to that of the noble earl (Grey), that Government have not felt any objection to the discussion of this subject by independent peers, and if we resist the motion, it is merely because we are convinced that its adoption would, instead of assisting the efforts of Government. materially tend to thwart them, although not to the same extent as speeches such as that of the noble earl who spoke last will do. I was distressed to hear one expression that fell from the noble earl, that he had to complain of the mild language held upon this subject by my noble friend the President of the Council and the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. If the noble earl had said that he deprecated, not the mild language of her Majesty's Ministers, but their weak conduct, I could have felt that he had indeed some thing to complain of. But I apprehend it is the conduct of wise and good Ministers net to indulge in violent language, but to express themselves in mild and respectful terms when addressing other Powers, to use such language as they would desire to have held towards them by foreign Governments ; and while offering firm remonstrances, to do so in terms respectful and considerate towards the Government to which they were addressed. (Hear, hear.) lam quite sure that if the language of her Majesty's Ministers had at all ap proached or resembled that we have just heard, one of two events would have happened —a war or the annexation, which we all deprecate, would have been carried out. We know, and must remember, that all that is said here is read across the water, and we should bear in mind what we felt under similar circumstances. Have we forgotten the knit anger that was felt when men, far less responsible to the Government, filling less important positions than members of the Legislature, held such violent language with regard to us how great was our indignation, and that the country was almost ready to take up arms to avenge itself? (Hear.) Ide deprecate language which tends to cause irritation on the other side of the Channel, and I feel certain that if the matter be left in the hands of the Government, and they are allowed to carry on the neg otiation in a firm but respectful and conciliatory spirit, we have a good prospect of attain ing our object. But if noble peers came forward to support the Government by violent speeches, there can be little doubt that the annexation which we all deprecate will be carried out. The noble earl who spoke previously put the question of English interests upon a proper basis, not as a separate interest, but a European one, in which England was jointly concerned with other Powers, and following out the principle, I believe your lordships cannot doubt that the Government has from the first done all in its power by re presentations, bgth to France and Sardinia, to prevent that which we al deprecate, and, if permitted, will continue to do so in the same spirit which has hitherto guided it. (Hear.) Lord BROUGHAM.—I wish to make the few observa tions which I have to offer to your lordships before the noble earl near me (Earl Derby) rises to address you, be cause of the part I have always taken in all questions relat ing to Italy. In the first place, allow me to say I entirely appreve of, and . was very much gratified by the statement of the noble earl the President of the Council. I entirely object, as my noble friend does, to what is called the an nexation of Savoy and Nice to the French empire —(hear, hear)—and upon the grounds stated by my noble friend. Not, indeed, as has been justly observed by the noble earl opposite (Grey), on account of the comparatively trifling addition, either territorial or strategical, which such annexation would give to the French empire, but be cauSe it would be a departure from the settlement of Europe. (Hear, hear.) There are consequences which might flow from such an act which, without any un reasonable alarm, every man ought to consider. If this annexation should take place after all the declarations made by the French Government of the abstinence which was to bo its guiding principle in the Italian war, where is it to stop ? Where is what is called the principle of na tionality, the principle of boundaries, to stop ? What will become of the boundary of the Rhine ? (Hear, hear.) I need not go further, but is there any security, if this anne xation should take place, against any further alteration or distribution of power in Germany as well as on the Rhine. (Hear, hear.) But we are all of the same opinion here, and we only differ as to our mode of dealing with this motion. I certainly de agree with my noble friend (the Earl of Shaftesbury) in one principle he enunciated. I regret the language he used, the terms he used towards Sardinia, not of vituperation, but of encouragement to go to war in order to prevent the annexation. I agree, however, with the noble earl that there can be nothing more atrocious than the handing over one country and its people to another ; or, as he says, handing over a people enjoying free institutions to a country deprived of all such institutions. The most atrocious act of modern times was the partition of Poland. But Igo still further. I object to handing over one country to another even if not against the wishes of its inhabitants. While I admit that nothing can be more plain, than the principle we laid down on the first night of the session— that the Italians should be allowed to manage their own of fairs and to settle their own government without any foreign : interference, still, it must be remembered that interferences: nut confined to intervention by force of arms, it may be by negotiation. I agree that the people of those States which have changed their rulers should be permitted to make their arrangements for their future government. But the prin ciple of non-intervention stops when a people, even it unanimously desirous to change,—and in the present in stance some declare the Savoyards desire the annexation to France, while others say they oppose it—if that change gives the other nations of Europe reason to apprehend an alteration of the balance of power. This is perfectly con sistent with the great principle of allowing the indepen dence of Italy, and all freedom in the arrangement of their own internal affairs without foreign interference. Now, however, to come to the motion before us. The opinion of this house is against the annexation, but if the Govern ment object to the motion I should deprecate a division, because, even if it were carried, it might appear that there was a difference of opinion upon the main question. Then suppose the motion of my noble friend is carried unani mously. I concur with the noble duke opposite (Newcas tle) that this also would be:inauspicious, that it would tend very much to obstruct the friendly communications and shake the friendly feeling between this country and France. And if it is rejected it might go forth that the adversaries of the Government of the Emperor had been defeated. In any case the motion is calculated to disturb the good un derstanding between the two countries, and interfere with arrangements that are most important to the prospects o peace, and I therefore advise the noble marquis not to pros that motion to a division. The Earl of DERBY said—l do not rise for the purpose o continuing to any length the present debate, or rather wile, has been not so much a debate as a conversation of the ut most importance. With regard to the main principle in. volved in the motion of the noble marquis, there has no been, so far as I have observed, the slightest difference o opinion expressed by any one member of this house. Un• doubtedly, various noble lords have expressed with more or less force the views they entertain of the supposed policy or scheme for the annexation of Savoy to France. The noble earl (Shaftesbury), who always speaks with consider able power, in alluding to this annexation, appeared to think that the measure has been finally determined on. The noble duke who has just sat down intimates that the policy of annexation is still undecided ; and I felt some disappoint._ ment that in the address of the noble earl the President of the Council, while he described the advice—the undoubtedly friendly advice—her Majesty's Government has tendered to the G overnment of France, he did not add that the advice so tendered has been finally and conclusively satisfactory, and that there is no reason for apprehending that the project, and ols likely te f l r yty a he u rte g yo withhdbfatoenrgc iebdangerous se carriedtv the Clieondnat dangerous ne d eqgffueerecontuce.ss mischief sTtoahise t concerned u o onbf a os l bt ltilhte ueetaffairsianr hFa French in eo pointed iht i na t tf , is g Italy, for Italian influence in the northern provinces, especially if the power of France is increased by the cession to i t: of the province of Savoy—a me asure th at will leave open to France the gate of Italy. When the l a t e G overnment was using its utmost endeavours to persuade the several Powers not to enter into that unhappy war, it especially pointed out the consequences that Sardinia and Savoy would have to:apP re bend from the outbreak of hostilities. These conse quences are now, perhaps, more clearly seen than they were at that time ; and, however difficult it may be to effect it, I hope that the unanimous opinion of Europe, firmly and temperately expressed, may succeed in preventing a measure that can only lead to interminable complication s or consequences yet more dangerous. In the course of this debate I think there has been much said that must be gratifying to her Majesty's Government. It would incur no disadvantage from the adoption of the motion; if it is rejected it will not be on a question of principle on the part of the Government, or even of a difference of opinion on the subject. If the point had been whether the ground of the motion of the noble marquis rested on sound international law, then the introduction of the motion might have in it something dangerous, whatever is the opinion of her Ma jesty's Government, But, even making all allowance for sanguine language, her Majesty's Government will be t among the first to admit thatthe present discussion has ex- t hibit,d a strong and unanimous feeling on the part of every member of the British House of Peers, that must be a strong element in the preservation of the peace of Europe and the continuance of a good understanding with that Power whose conduct has been most strongly commented °n dangers i lords, th y at will a it is not from h t necessarye n discusstaenen of Savoy atio the evils and to France. They are admitted by all parties; one noble lord has gone beyond another in the earnestness with which he has pointed them out. But let me express to all concerned any convictio n th a t t h e two part i es who will suffer most in ehlractcr and honour by such an annexation will be the two Powers between whom the supposed compact has been made. (Rear, h e l'.) It has already been pointed out that, by consenting to such an act the French Emperor will con tradict the liberal sentiments he uttcrod at Milan, and belie the whole course ho has pursued siuce he ascended the throne of France. On e very occasion he has studiously de clared, and his actions have never yet been in contradiction to it, that whatever he might think, that whatever France might think, of th e treaties of 1815, , ho did not intend to Infringe them, but recognize themas part of the in ternational law of Europe. From that conduct the French Emperor has never swerved. - What course he might have pursued, had not Austria p rec i p i tated the war in Italy, it is now impossible to say ; how far he might have been involved with Sardini a it i s impos sible to discuss. But the precipitation of Austria, after the declaration of the Emperor that, as long as she continued within her own dominions, he was determined to give no material assistance to Sardinia, commenced the war, and from that moment, whatever the provocation she received, she precluded herself from calling on Europe to maintain her territorial rights as fixed by the treaties of 1815. But, if any Power will suffer more than another, more even than France, and incur an indelible disgrace by giving up Savoy, tha t Power is Sardinia. (Hear, hear.) She claimed to be the champion and vindicator of the liberty of Italy; she always declared she looked forward to no territorial aggrandise ment as a consequence of war. The noble earl (Granville) has admitted that previous to the war there wart some ne gotiation between France and Sardinia on the subject of a possible annexation of Savoy on certain conditions or con tingencies. Now, if such negotiations ever did tak e pl ace , I confess it is difficult to give credit to the declaration that Sardinia engaged in the war without any previous idea of an increase of territory. You are aware, my lords, that by a special treaty—the treaty of Turin—to the provisions of which, I believe, the assent of the other Powers of Europe was obtained, Switzerland and Piedmont reciprocally bound themselves under no circumstances and upon no conditions to cede to any other Power the territory in question, and Piedmont, having accepted that territory, not simply by way of exchange or with the object of promoting the peace of Europe, but by way of affording mutual security as be tween Switzerland and herself, would, in my opinion, be guilty not only of an interference with the'general law of Europe, but of a violation of a clear and well-defined con tract if she were to make over to another State that province, the maintenance of whose indepen dence and neutrality is the very key-stone of the treaty to which I allude. (Hear, hear.) lam not, however, prepared to attribute to Sardinia conduct at once so discreditable and inconsistent with the professions she has made. I trust, on the contrary, that she will have the firmness to say to France—" This is a question with respect to which I am unable to comply with your wishes. I am bound not alone by the general law of Europe and the treaties of 1815, but by a specific engagement into which I have entered with Switzerland, never to yield up to a third Power this particular territory." Could France, my lords, in opposition to such a plea as that, by force and without the consent of Piedmont, take possession of Savoy ? (Hear.) If she did seize upon that province must it not be either by resorting to an act of the most unscrupulous violence—an act of which I am far from suspecting she would be guilty, or as the result of the base and unprincipled connivance of the King of Sardinia, who would thus be despoiling his dominions of that portion of them which furnishes his best troops to his army and the most loyal and attached subjects to his throne? (Cheers.) I donot, indeed, thi n k m y lords that the question is one in dealing with which it becomes his country to use the language of menace.. I am never theless of opinion that it does befit England, as one of the great Powers of Europe, and by the free expression of the sentiments of this, the highest assembly of a free nation, to have it placed upon record that the unanimous verdictof the members of that assembly is, that such conduct on the part of France as I have describ ed would be inconsistent with the due maintenance of the treaties of 1815—(cheers) — that they deem it important, even in the interests of France herself, that she should do nothing to shake that confidence which it is so desirable should be established throughout Europe and without the establishment of which no good security for the permanent peace the Continent can be afford e d. (H ear , hear.) It it not, my lords, the armed force of France, great as that doubtedly is—it is not the important fact that the great re sources of that great country are wielded by one absolute and despotic authority—it is not those combined circum stances which create apprehension. No, it is this which causes alarm—that she has never yet been able to succeed in inspiring Europe with perfect confidence in the steadi ness of her policy, or in the pacific, character of her inten tions. (Hear, hear.) Let her, then, show but the slightest desire to annex to her own a territory, small in extent but great in strategic impertance . —(hear, hear)—let her but ex hibit the smallest indication, now that she has so far suc ceeded in expelling Austrian influence from Italy, to per petuate her own domination in that country by means of large standing armies—maintained I know net for what purpose—and I speak not now of the French garrison at ?Rome—let her, in short, but evince the most trifling dispo sition to transfer to herself the authority which Sardinia at present possesses over Savoy, thus securing for herself a passage into Italy, and obtaining a resting-place whence her armies may overrun the territories of an ally whose do minions she has been the means of aggrandising, but under such circumstances of aggrandising, I would say, to the danger of that ally—let France, I repeat, my lords, but pur sue such a course of policy as that, and, then, indeed, that confidence which is a plant of slow growth, especially among nations, can hardly be expected to be re-established between the powerful French empire and the rest of Europe, which is looking on and watching her movements, in an attitude of anxious and suspicious hostility. (Cheers.) I must, at the same time, observe my lords, that a great o pp or t un it y i s now afforded to the Emperor of the French to maintain un impaired his character for scrupulous adherence to the principles of good faith. (Hear, hear.) Let him, then, de clare that he concurs with her Majesty's Government in the view which they take of the evils which would be likely to flow from any infraction of those territorial limits which have been so long established, and that he desires the maintenance of the balance of power and the peace if Europe. (Hear) Let him prove to the world that he went to war—as he declared it to be his intention to de—for the liberation of Italy from foreign control, and not with the view to wield himself that power the exercise of which he condemned in another ; let him show that he respects Eng land, and that right of self-government and independent action which we freelyrecognised in the case of that mighty empire over which he reigns by the choice of its people:; let him make it plain to Europe that neither upon this side of the Rhine nor the Alps is he to be tempted by any vain idea as to - what may seem to him the natural boundaries of France to depart from those joint principles which are far more patent than any natural limits whatsoever—(cheers) —let him frankly and avowedly take that course, not under menace, for menace - no nation would venture to offer him ; but' acting on the friendly representations of a country with which it is his boast that he is on terms of close intimacy and alliance, whose policy he declares to be identical with his own, and with which he does not hesitate to announce that he acts hand in hand and side by side. (Cheers.) Let him, my lords, I repeat, pursue that course; let him pro claim to the World that no Violation of the existing boun daries of Europe is to be apprehended at his hands, and that he has given England the most solemn assurance that, in common with her, he will proceed upon the principle of ab solute and entire non-interference with the affairs of other countries. (Hear, hear.) If he so acts, then indeed, my lords, will he have nobly availed himself of the opportunity which is now presented to him of reaping that best and most priceless fruit of the victories which he has won—the establishment over the minds of his fellow men of that moral authority which, unlike his great military power, is only to be attained by the observance of good faith, by scru pulous integrity, and by a strict adherence to tho principles of justice and the rights of nations. (Loud cheers.) The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in offering an explana tion as to the policy which he had in the course of his speech contended that this country and Sardinia ought to pursue in reference to the question under the notice of the house, expressed his regret that he should have used the word " physical," to which the noble duke opposite (the Duke of Newcastle) had alluded. Lord STRATFORD DE REDCLIFFE said the re marks which had just fallen from the noble earl (the Earl of Derby), who had spoken in terms so eloquent on the im portant subject under discussion, rendered him desirous to address a few observations with respect to it to the house. The noble earl had stated that every noble lord who had taken part in the discussion had in reality given expression to the same sentiments, modified although those sentiments might be by the form in which they were conveyed. It had so happened, however, that, with the exception of the noble marquis by whom the debate had been opened, no noble lord practically connected with the diplomatic service had ventured to address the house upon a question which in so eminent a degree came within the sphere of that depart ment. As one therefore, who had some experience in diplo matic affairs, he might perhaps be permitted to lay before their lordships very briefly the views with respect to the present motion which he entertained. He should, then, in the first place, observe that he entirely concurred with the noble earl opposite (Lord Derby) in the opinion that it was for the interest of Europe at large that we should enter our protest against the addition of Savoy to the territories of the French Emperor, for it was impossible with justice to say that France by obtaining possession of that province and Nice would not be furnished with ad ditional power of extending her influence over Italy ; and although it might be said that England had no special interest in the latter country beyond that which related to hor commerce, yet it was of the utmost import ance that foreign influence should not be employed there in a manner prejudicial to us, especially if that influence were to proceed from a quarter which afforded indication of a readiness to pursue a policy unfa vourable to this country—a policy on which ho hoped the present Emperor of the French would never act, although it must be borne in mind that such had been the traditional policy of the French nation from the earliest times. With regard to the territorial transfer now said to be contem plated, in proportion as it might be inexpedient to hazard the peace of this country and of Europe ley our opposition to that transfer, so it was incumbent on Parliament at the proper time to express its opinions on the subject, and thus afford to the Government a support which would enable them when the time came to act up to their declarations. These declarations, though slot quite so strong and so em phatic as had just been heard from other parts of the house, made it evident that the Government perceived the danger to which this annexation might lead, and felt themselves bound to take whatever measures could in prudence be sug gested to prevent it. It could not be denied, that in addi tion to the increased influence which would accrue to her in Italy, France would derive from the acquisition of Savoy and Nice advantages infinitely superior to those which we had lately been accused of aiming at. What importance, for example, was attached by some of our neighbours to that miserable island at the entrance of the Red Sea, and what irritation had been produced by our supposed desire of acquiring it 1 The possession of Perim was, indeed, of little importance as compared with the possession of Savoy and Nice; but even these considerations, important as they were, became comparatively trivial by the 'side of the ques tions of general policy which had just been so eloquently commented upon by the noble earl (of Derby). It was in this point of view that the strange and pernicious principles which had lately been put forward across the Channel were chiefly to be regarded. We had certainly no right to at tribute these principles to the constituted authorities of France ; yet they bore about them some marks of recogni tion by the authorities, and could not, therefore, be di vested of importance. When their lordships remembered these things, he could not help thinking that the mo tions of the noble marquis and the discussion which it had evoked were such as to inspire the strongest feelings if satisfaction ; and he must therefore add his testimony to .hat of others as to the service rendered by the noble mar luis to this house and to the country by bringing the ques tion forward. (Hear.) In the debate which had taken place he had heard nothing inconsistent with the language which a great assembly like this was entitled and was, in deed, bound to use. (Hear.) It seemed to him that just in were count c r a y ll f ed rel u n p b o e n in to g d p o lu e n v g e e ry d t i h e i t n e g w v e d i, ic e l e i ye which struck at the root of all in t e rnational o b l igations e lpiti x ti p bogp ie h e eo s ta l itpni a oreen s va t aer more strong ght urgent duty on the part of Parliament to he opiniow when principles were enunciated and of all international confidence. (Hear, hear.) On such e province a of e e t u h n i s t o d u e s e e l e a r n e d_ of Pam n e , eerlai which)ne w i s t u e t r u o e dny operatesei t e t wa e' u c hi i n p p t r i e h n n e o ther countries, an' l l ;*et per haps, thereby be the means of checking designs which ' twhoeu courseld be n e e f this c ear debatey toop a justpose evtertie tribute e th h e e dhabzmannow at theaernd paid o to the war. In honour and the consistency of the great m b h e e t ad wee o n f t t h h e e tFwroenecelennemtlipeiere. wereA e s e f n a ee r e rn s e t d he ,t d h i i i e ve tri t b re u l te ati w on e s e no doubt just and well-founded. But at the same time no t e h n e e re ee h ni ad d b e enh el p e e observing n e t e h e a t t d i ne u , r b i during h t hte side,e l last t e e f er e years speak, of the direct and public transactions between the two coun tries, which had excited astonishment, combined with some degree of distrust, not only here, but throughout Europe. When these matters were brought before Parliament, and WWII opinions were frankly interchanged there respecting them, he thought their lordships had a right to expect that in stead of being treated as causes of offelict or of quarrel by other Powers, these opinions should, en the contrary, be regarded as arising from a just sense of duty not only towards cur own country, but towards Europe at large, and from a sincere desire for the continuance of that peace which was of so much importance to us and the whole world. (Hear, hear.) This free expression of opinion on all subjects affecting our foreign relations was not only of value in preventing bloodshed, but in extending also these great commercial interests which strengthened the friendship of nations ; and he hoped that the present discussion would so be regarded, and would net fail of that happy effect. (Hear, hear.) The Marquis of NORMANBY, in reply, after observing upon the unanimity of feeling which had prevailed in the house on the subject of the motion, said that he neverthe less thought the objects their lordships had in view would be best attained by a withdrawal of the motion. The motion was accordingly withdrawn, and their lord ships adjourned at half-past eight o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. NEW MEMBER. Mr. CARNEGIE took the oaths and his seat for Forfar, in the room of Lord Duncan, now Earl of Camperdown. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The standing orders were declared to have been complied with in the case of a large number of private bills. The following bills were read a second time :—Epping Railways (Ilford Lines, &c.), Hay Railway, Hereford, Hay, and Brecon Railway, Horsham and Guildford Direct Railway, Liskeard Water, North British and Peebles and Jedburgh Railway Companies, North Eastern and New castle-upon-Tyne and Carlisle Railway Companies Amal gamation, Scottish Drainage and Improvement Company. South Kensington Railway, Stockton and Darlington Rail way, Thames Tunnel Railway, and Wimbledon and Dork ing Railway. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE moved that the proceedings on the second reading of the Ness and Beauly Fisheries Bill be null and void.—Agreed to. PETITIONS. Several petitions were presented, chiefly from the pro vinces, against the unconditional abolition of church-rates ; against hostilities with China ; against the present increase in the military and naval expenditure of the country; in favour of national education and tenant-right in Ireland ; in favour of the total abolition:of church•rates ; from the shipowners of Montrose in favour of an inquiry relative to the burdens affecting the shipping interest, &c. CHURCH DISCIPLINE AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. H. SEYMOUR said that he would postpone his motion for leave to bring in this bill, which stood on th• paper for this evening, till this day fortnight. SAVINGS BANKS. Mr. LAING moved for returns from each savings bank in England and Wales, Scotland, and Ireland, containing, in columns, the names of the officers, their respective sala ries, and other allowances, if any ; the amount of security each gives ; the number of accounts remaining open ; the total amount owing to depositors; the total amount invested with the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt ; the rate of interest paid to depositors on the various amounts of deposit, and the average rate of interest on all ao - counts ; and the total amount of the separate surplus fund on the 20th November, 1859 ' the rate per centum per annum on the capital of the bank for the expenses of management ; the annual number of receipts from depositors ; the annual number of payments; the average amount of receipts; the average amount of payments ; the number and amount of annuities granted ; the annual expenses of management, inclusive of all payment s an d sa l ar i es , f or t h e year en d e d the 20th day of November, 1859 ; also the year in which business commenced in each bank, and the name of the day or days and the number of hours in the week, on which the banks are open for the deposit and withdrawal of moneys. —Ordered. CAPE OF GOOD HOPE. Mr. A. MILLS moved an address for copier of extracts of all correspondence which had taken place between the Colonial-office and Governor Sir George Grey respecting his recal from the Cape of Good Hope, and his subsequent re-appointment to the government of that colony.—Ordered. HOPS. Mr. JOHN LOCKE moved for returns of the total number of acres of land in the United Kingdom under the cultivation of hops in the year 1859; distinguishing the number of acres in each parish; and the number of pounds' weight charged with duty in each collection; and the number of pounds' weight charged with duty in each parish : of the amount of duty charged on hops in each collection of the growth of the year 1859 ; dis tinguishing the districts, and the old from the new duty in each district ; showing the average amount of duty per acre in each collection; of the quantity of British hops exported from the United Kingdom to foreign countries, from the Ist day of January to the 30th day of June, and from the Ist day of July to the 31st day of December, 1859, respec tively • distinguishing th e coun tries to which th e same have 'been exported, and also the quantities to each country, with the dates of the years in which the hops were grown ; of the quantity of foreign hops exported from the United Kingdom to foreign countries, from the Ist day of January to the 30th day of June, and from the Ist day of July to the 31st day of December, 1859, respectively, distinguishing the coun tries to which the same have been exported, and also the quantities to each country ; of the quantity of foreign hops imported into the United Kingdom, from the let day of January to the 30th day of June, and from the let day of July to the 31st day of December, 1859, respectively, dis tinguishing the ports where imported and the countries whence exported.—Agreed to. QUEEN'S PRINTERS' PATENT. Mr. BLACK asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if the patent of the Queen's printers for print ing Bibles and Acts of Parliament had been renewed ; and, if so, what were the terms on which it had been renewed And, it the patent had not been renewed, on what condi tions were Bibles and Acts of Parliament now printed ? Sir G. C. LEWIS said that the committee on this subject recommended the appointment during the present session of another commission. With reference to the printing of Bibles, the patent had been renewed during her Majesty's pleasure ; and with regard to the public papers, an arrange ment had been made by which they would be printed at a reduced rate. THE COMMERCIAL TREATY WITH FRANCE. In reply to Mr. S. FITZGERALD, Lord J. RUSSELL said that, although the version of the text of the commercial treaty with France which ap peared is some of the journals was partly correct, still it was impossible to understand so complicated a question without being in possession of the text of the treaty. It was not the intention of Government to lay on the table the treaty before Friday next. THE ITALIAN QUESTION. Lord C. HAMILTON asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, if it was true that Lord Cowley bad been instructed to communicate to the French Government a project for the definitive settlement of the Italian question ; and, if so, whether he had any objection to communicate the details of that project to the house_ Lord J. RUSSELL said that it was necessary, in order to satisfy the hon. member, to enter into an account of what had already taken place„with respect to the affairs of Italy. At present I cannot produce the papers, because negotia tions are still pending. What has passed is this :—The house is aware from her Majesty's speech that herMajosty's Government were invited to take part in a conference or congress respecting the affairs of Italy. At a certain period when it was expected the congress was to meet, we received intimation from the French Government that it was ad journed sine die, but that we should be informed if there was any intention of its meeting hereafter. It was said that the delay, or rather the entire postponement, of the congress was owing to the publication of an anonymous pamphlet at Paris. Be that as it may, her Majesty's Government felt that it was a very serious thing that the Italians, who had hitherto been waiting in expectation that Italian affairs would be solved by the congress, should have no regular Government and no apparent means of terminating the condition of uncertainty in which they were placed. Her Majesty's Government, therefore, made propositions to the Governments of France and Austria, with a view to the de finitive solution of the Italian question. Those proposals were contained in a despatch to Lord Cowley, elated the 14th of January. The first prorosal was that, as the rivalry of France and Austria had led to great evils in Italy and great danger to Europe, those two Powers should agree not to interfere by force in the Italian Peninsula without the consent of the five great Pewers. By the second proposition it was proposed that the French troops should, at a convenient time and with all proper precautions, with draw from Lombarday and Rome. By the third proposition it was proposed that the Governments of Europe should not interfere in the internal government of Venetia—that . . . _ no proposition should be made to qualify the internal go yernment of Venetia by the Emperor of Austria. To these three proposals the Government of France, with certain modifications as to the time and season for withdrawing their troops, gave their ready consent. Upon the fourth proposition they begged time to consider, and time to com municate with the Government of Austria. The fourth proposition was to the ,effect that the King of Sardinia should he asked not to send any troops into Central Italy until there should be, by a new election of the States and provinces of Central Italy, a clear and unbiassed declaration of their wishes with respect to their future government — that if that wish should be in favour of annexation to Sar- dinia, then the restriction to which it was proposed to ask the King of Sardinia to submit should be removed, and no objection made to his introducing troops into the provinces • . _ of Central Italy—meaning, of course, those provinces which have declared they will no longer be governed by their late rulers. The French Government has acccordingly commu- nicated with the Government of Austria upon that subject, but no official communication of the decision of Austria has yet been given. This very morning I received a despatch saying that Count Rechberg promised to take the Emperor of Austria's orders, but that he could not give an official answer without receiving the. Emperor's instructions and commands. With respect to ourselves, the Austrian Government, on receiving the communication of the three propositions to which they were asked to consent, made objection that it was not in conformity with their views and opinions as to the rights of sovereignty to make any absolute engagements with regard to non-intervention. With regard to the fourth proposition, although they could not acknowledge the state of things in Central Italy, at the same time Count Reehberg declared to Lord Augustus Loftus and Count Apponyi has declared to me that the Austrian Government have no intention whatever to inter fere in the affairs of Italy, that they are not going to send , any forces beyond their own frontiers, and that they shall confine themselves strictly to the defence of their own pos sessions, which are bound by treaty to be part of the demi nious of the Emperor of Austria. These declarations, com bined with the willingness of the French Government to entertain the three first proposals, give great hope that we shall arrive, by these means, at a settlement of Italy which although not immediately acknowledged by all the Powers of Europe, will at the same time be a pacific settlement, and prevent a renewal of war. Imviiediately after communi cating with the Governments of France and A.ustria l I di rected communications of the same proposals to Prussia and Russia for their information and subsequent decision. With regard to Russia I have not received any answer whatever. The Prussian Government has not made any objection to the proposals, but delays making a definite an swer until the opinions of France and Austria have been ascertained. This is exactly the substance of what has hitherto passed. The noble lord will see that it is the be ginning of negotiations, and I cannot at present be autho rised by her Majesty to place the papers on the table of the house. (Cheers.) THE ADMIRALTY. Mr. KINNAIRD begged to ask the Secretary of the Ad miralty what steps the Board of Admiralty had taken, or were about to take, to carry out the recommendations con tained in the report of the committee of inquiry on the eco nomy of her Majesty's dockyards, presided over by Admiral Smart, and in the report of the committee on steam machi nery, presided over by Admiral Ramsay ? Lord C. PAGET said the Admiralty had under their Serious consideration the report of these two committees. They had been able to carry out various recommendations, but with regard to one of the most important they had thought it right to call for the opinions of the principal officArs of Somerset-house, as well as the superintendents of the dockyards. The observations of those o The he hoped to be able to lay on the table te-mo rrow , The Duke of Somerset had given t h e greatest consideration to the recom mendations of the committees, and had drawn up a memo randum, which had been laid before the lioard - of Admi rtity. lie also hoped to lay that paper with a board minute attached, on the table to,morrow. The committee on the dockyards recommended that there should be laid before Parliament statements of the annual poet of all ships of her Majesty's navy. He hoped to be able to lay on the table that return, which he thought was of some interest, in a few days. (Hear, hear.) But he was bound to state with can dour that the return was not so perfect as he should wish it to be. It was a novelty, and perhaps the details of co s t h a d not been kept up in a s a tisfactory manner. When the hon. member for Newcastle brought forward his motion for in quiry into the shipbuilding of the Admi ra lty, h e ahcalld be able to go more fully into the subject. Sir 3. PAKINGTON asked whether the memorandum referred to both eonunittse9, Lord C. PAGET said the report of the principal officers was upon the retort of Admiral Smart's committee, The memorandum o 2 the Duke of Somerset related to both. THE DIVORCE COURT. Lord J. MANNERS moved for leave to bring in a bill to enable the Court fir Divorce and Matrimonial Causes to hold its sittings with closed doors. He contended that the details published in the newspapers in respect to the trials at this court were calculated to demoralise the community to a considerable extent. The object of his bill was to confer on the judge of the court the privilege of sitting with closed doors in cases where he conceived it would be conducive to public morals to adopt that course. A clause to that effect had received the sanction of the House of Lords and the present Attorney-General ; and was in conformity with the power possessed by the old Ecclesi astical Court, the House of Lords, and even the Court of Chancery. Mr. JAMES said his reason for taking the rather un usual course of resisting the introduction of the bill was that the matter had been fully discussed and decided in the last session of Parliament. The Divorce Court Bill came down with a clause introduced by the Lord Chancellor, with the object of accomplishing that which was proposed by the present measure. It was supported to some extent by the Attorney-General ; but the feeling of the house had so strongly manifested itself against closing the doors of this court that the clause was rejected without a division. After this express decision, he believed the house would now declare its opinion that the present bill was inexpe dient and unnecessary. He imputed no motives whatever to the noble lord; he believed that he was actuated alone by the sincere desire of suppressing what he considered in decent reports of the proceedings in that court; but he hoped to show the house in a few sentences that such a course would be highly injudicious. The noble lard had referred to the practice of the Ecclesiastical Courts and the Court of Chancery ; but if ever the Court of Divorce— ' which as at present administered enjoyed the sanction and confidence of the public (hear, hear)—were to have the same opinion entertained with regard to it which had existed of the other Courts to which reference had been made, it would soon fall into utter contempt. The Lord Chancellor, it was true, equally with the Judge of the Divorce . Court, had power, with the consent of counsel acting for both parties, to retire into a private room and hear the case, if he thought proper to do so; but he entertained great doubt whether the Lord Chancellor could close the court against the public—(hear, hear)—and he believed that if a case of trespass were brought by any person who had been excluded, it would be established by the constituted authorities that the Court of Chancery was a publio court, and the Lord Chancellor hai no right to close it. (Hear, hear.) Why, if it were known that a sort of mysterious Court was sitting at Westminster-hall, whose avenues were unapproachable to the public, and that cases were going on there which might not be reported, a prurient curiosity would at once be engendered, and they would have all sorts of erroneous reports furnished either by reporters in wigs and gowns or by attorneys or their clerks ; and a morbid desire to procure them would be evidenced on the part of the public. Was the noble lord, who had cited no instance which had occurred since last session in support of his argument, prepared to extend the principle of his bill to the police courts, and other courts of criminal jurisdiction in this country ? Yet a charge of perjury had arisen out of proceedings in a suit before the Divorce Court, whieh it became requisite to try before one of the criminal tribunals, and the details of which occu pied day after day the columns of the public journals. (Hear.) The better course, he believed, was to repose confidence in the taste and good sense of the press— (hear, hear)—which, since the decision in August, had not abused the power of publishing cases from that court. Hon. members who had acted as counsel in cases of this nature would bear him out in the statement that no details of a filthy or disgusting character had been given to the public. (Hear, hear.) The debates in that house were at one period forbidden to be published ; and Dr. Johnson told the translator of "Demosthenes" that he got from the door-keepers and uniformly published imaginary debates ; and that he a'ways took care that " those dogs in wigs" got the worst of • it. (Laughter.) The noble lord was of opinion that by the reports which appeared from the Divorce Court a public scandal was occ:sioned ; but he considered that a vital principle was at stake in the matter, and that although the maxim might be trite it was still as true as when Bentham wrote it, that publicity was vital to . the administration of English j us ti ce , an d t o th e con fid ence ' which the people of England reposed in it. (Hear, hear.) The hen. and learned member concluded by moving, as an amendment, the previous question. Mr. ROEBUCK said a remark had once been made by Swift, which the present motion of the noble lord fully verified. This was, that "the nicest persons had the nastiest ideas." (Laughter.) The proposition of the noble lord he believed to have originated in the same state of feeling that possessed the American lady whose sentiments of modesty were wonderfully offended by the naked legs of her pianoforte. (" Hear," and a laugh.) If the noble lord had taken into account the end which was sought to be at tained by the Divorce Court, he would, he thought, h ave arrived at a different conclusion. Tbat court had been created for a mixed object; it affected not merely private rights and obligations, but also public obligations. It not only determined whether a man should be divorced from his wife, but it went further, and declared why he should be divorcee, and b y that means it aff ec t e d pu b l i c morality. (Hear, hear.) f the court was shut up, one of these great moans of influencing the public would be utterly taken away. He was aware that the English notion of morality was confined to picking a pocket and seducing another man's w if e . But there wore other things which he read daily in the papers by which he was much more affected. He con stantly saw in the reports of the Police Courts that men were brought up for thrashing their wives, almost beating out their eyes and nearly taking away their lives. These things went on from day to day, and disgraced the people of England in the eyes d Europe and of the world. (Hear, hear.) Another great object which had been effected by the publicity of proceedings in the Divorce Court was the dispelling of the idea that immoral practices were confined to the upper and lowest classes of society; and it had been shown that among the middle class what was particularly recognised by Englishmen as immorality was as rife as in any other—(hear, hear)— and he thought this a very great benefit—(laughter)—he hated shams, and he believed the morality of the middle class to be as great a sham as had ever existed. There ought, then, to be a degree of healthy hardihood in a man's character which would enable him to bear this exposure. The noble lord had stated that it was impossible to put a newspaper into the hands of one's wife or daughter. This statement he denied altogether; and he maintained that nothing had been more creditable than the conduct of the public press on this question. They had the most filthy details before them —aye, and from the middle class too, and they had not shocked any decent man's or woman's mind by what they had disclosed. But let the truth be told; was it right that the middle class should continue to appear as models of angelic purity, when they were as earthly and immoral as any other class ? (Hear, hear.) The noble lord stated that the judges of the crimi nal courts had the power of shutting out women and chil dren. Yes ; but how was it done P In a criminal case, the judge has the depositions before him, and knows what is going to be proved is of a character that women and children had better not hear. The Judge of the Divorce Court could not do this ; and as a judge would act only on his indivi dual caprice, he would ask the house whether it could ex pect from a court of justice the advantages it was intended to produce, if it was left to the caprice of the judge to de cide what was fit to be made public. Each judge would act on his own opinion ; one might exclude the public, the next might take a different view of the case. Then they might have a prurient judge—there were such things—(hear, hear) —who might delight to make jokes before his Court that he would not dare to utter if the press was present. (Hear.) Even now, with the control of the press, he could put his finger on judges whose jokes did no honour to an English_ court of justice. (H ear , h ear. ) One great use o f a cour t o f justice is to serv e as a gu id e to the moral i ty o f th e p eople. t If the proceedi ngs were secret, they woul d seem be a thousand times w o r se th an anyt hi ng t h e pu bli c was likely to read. The, motion of the noble lord, therefore, t ou gh made with the best p oss ibl e i n t en ti ons —hell was pa ved with them—would do the greatest possible mischief, and he should oppose it. Lord C. CECIL said notwithstanding the insinua tion of the hon. and l earne d gen tl eman , h e should support tne mo tion of the noble lord. Sir G. C. LEWIS said,—lt is the ordinary practice of the house to agree to the motion for leave to introduce a bill, and to proceed to the other stages of the measure with a knowledge of its contents. In this instance the noble lord has treated the question as if we were taking the debate on the second reading, and has made a speech of a somewhat controversial nature ; he lies thus left us without all doubt as to the nature of the bill he seeks to introduce. There. fore, though contrary to the most convenient practice of the house, i am disposed , to give my vote in favour of the amendment of the hon and learned member, (Hear, hear.) I will now proceed to discuss the question As if this were the debate on the second reading. The purpose of the noble lord's bill is to creates privilegiuin for the Court of Divorce. He does not propose to alter the ordinary law of the coun try with regard to trials in which indecent matter, unfit for general perusal, may be given in evidence, commented on by counsel, or stated in the judge's charge to the jury. The bill is not a general measure, including all the criminal courts and the proceedings before the trfitgistrates. It only establishes a separate rule for the Court of Divorce, m y objection to the bill rests on its being 4 !Articular and dis criminating measure. Had it be a general measure, af fecting all the courtg of law, I might have been disposed to vote fqr going to a second reading. But unless the nob'e lord is prepared to call on the house to lay down a unive; sal rule, there is a great objection to singli ng out the Court of Divorce for exceptional legislation. On what ground does the noble lord rest this differential measure, if I may re describe it ? It may b o argued that trials involving ob scene matter do not occur before the criminal courts. But it is notorious that cases far more gross in their literal de scription do occur in the administration of the criminal law than those of the Court of Divorce. I will not pain the house by any further allusion to such cases ; but it is noto rious that they do occur, and the evidence on them is far more unfit for publication than the evidence given in divorce cases. In the criminal courts the rule followed by the judges is, that during the trial of such cases women and children are excluded. This is accord ing to the law of the land, and no woman could bring an action for being so excluded. But no attempt was ever made to exclude the reporters or to carry on the proceedings with closed doors, which the hill proposes shall be done in the Divorce Court, The Lord Chancellor sometimes hears cases in. hia private room, the public being altogether excluded ; hut these cases are purely exceptionarmatters, and are so heard not so much as a ques. tion of decency as involving matters that would affect pri vate interests. Even this power ie very rarely exerciae , !,. Under these cirmstances It does )sot appear to me t at any sufficient case has been. made out for subjectiro--6 the Court of Divorce to special legialation. We Iti.nw that eases similar to those u this court were formerly tried in the House of Lords and the Ecclesiastical Courts, and the evidence on them was reported at great length. Ido no t, h owever, re collect that' any p eer of Parliament ever took it upon him self on those occasions to move the exclusion of strangers during the reception of evidence, although be it borne in mind, it would have been competent to him to do so by vir • tue of a stalidiug order of the House of Lords, and without having recourse to any special legislation to effect his object. Under these circumstauees, then, and not deeming it neces sary for the protection of public morals to subject the Di vorce Court to the operation of a rule which should apply to it exclusively, T. shall give my v o t e i n f avour of the amend ment of my hen, and learned friend the member for Maryle bone. _(Hear, hear.) Mr. MALINS could not consent to arm any judge with the most unconstitutional power sought to be placed in him, and which must prove detrimental ) instead of being for the public benefit. He denied that it was in the power of the Lord Chancellor to close his Court while he adminis tered justice, though there were oases as to guardianship and wardship which, if it were thought desirable might be heard in private, if the interest of any particular family re quired it, though the object of that was to prevent family differences from being made public. But, in cases of dissolu tion of marriage the public had a right to know why the separation had taken place. The great evil to be guarded against in the Divorce Court was that of collusion. (Hear, hear.) If they allowed cases to be heard with closed doors great opportunity for collusion wou ld b e afforded. So far from the judges wishing to administer justice in private, he believed the judges felt that It was a security for them that the public should know what was going forward. On these grounds he felt the strongest repugnance to the principles of the bill prowsed by the noble lord. Mr. K, MACAULAY said that when the clause which the noble lord sought to expunge was adopted last July no division was asked for. The noble lord asked permission to introduce this bill, as much in the interest of suitors as in that of morality and decency, for. there were many cases in which suitors would be practically debarred from their natural remedy if this :relief were not given. Since the rejection of the clause empowering the judges to close the court last session, there had been cases in which the suitors had been materially injured in consequence of the court being an open one, and for the dist time in. this country, and indeed in Christendom, a modest woman was made to speak plainly, and before a public audience, to details to which he could only darkly allude. He thought it plainly for the interest of the suitors that the judges should have the power to close the court in particular cases. The hon. and learned member for Sheffield had said that the judges could not tell what the evidence would be, but that was an ' error for they had th e p e titi on and counter pleadings be fore them, in which the material facts to be proved were all set out, and beyond that they could make prior inquiries which would guide them in the exercise of their discretion so as to avoid a public hearing when it would be destructive to the interests of the suitors as well as injurious to the public morals. The hon. member for 'Wallingford had said, that when the Lord Chancellor examined parties in private, it was merely for the purpose of determining the propriety of a change of guardian, or the transfer of a child from the custody of one person to another; but the real reason of the private hearing was, that the interests of the suitors should not suffer by the case being heard in public, and for the same reason many of the cases now tried in the Divorce Court ought to be heard in private. He would not argue the question in the same way as on a second readirlg, because it was impossible to know the precise shape which it would take; but of one thing he felt certain, namely, that a provision might be Praia to secure that, in certain cases, there should be a private hearing. He thought the speech of the Attorney-General last session conclusive in favour of the course the noble lord recommended, and, entertaining those views, he should support the motion. Lord J. MANNERS, in reply, said that it was not the fact, as 'alleged by the h on . mem b er f or Marylebone, that the question had been already fully discussed in the House of Commons, for on the the 11th of August, when the Lords' amendments were discussed, there were very few hon. members in the house, and he could not help thinking that if there had been a full attendance, as at :present, the Attorney General would not have given up the clause as he did. He felt it extremely difficult to answer the hon. member for Sheffield, for he (Lord J. Manners) would not put himself in the mental position of a man who could de scribe the existing Court of Divorce as a protection to pub lic morality. If that were so he (Lord J. Manners) would like to hear the definition of immorality. He was at a loss to conceive how the learned gentleman could regard the disclosures which had taken place in that court, and which had been disseminated far and wide, as tending to anything other than immorality, nor could he conceive how the Government which last session had permitted the exclu sion clause to be carried in the Rouse of Lords, and when it was rejected had defended it by the mouth of the Attorney General in this house could now turn round and vote against it. (Hear, hear.) In reply to the asseetion that the same reasoning might be urged in favour of closing criminal courts, he would only say that cases of this nature were there the exception, whereas in the Divorce and Matrimonial Causes Court they were the rule. He assured the house that he had introduced this measure solely with a desire to improve the public morals, and he left it with the fullest confidence to their decission. (Hear, hear.) The house then divided, when there w . ere— For the previous qu.estion ............. 268 Against it .......................... 83 Majority ............. ... . . .... —lB5 was lost. The previous question h av i ng been thus carried, th e b MASTERS AND WORKMEN. Mr. MACKINNON obtained leave to bring in a bill to establish equitable councils of conciliation to adjust the dif ferences between masters and workmen. WINDOW CLEANING. Mr. CAVE (for Sir C. Burrell) obtained leave to bring in a bill to diminish the danger incurred by servants and others in cleaning and repairing windows. BLEACHING AND DYEING WORKS. Mr. CROOK moved for leave to bring in a bill to place the employment of women, young persons, and children, in bleaching and dyeing works, under the regulation of the Factory Act. Sir G. GREY said that a bill having a similar object had been condemned by a select committee; but as the subject was an important one, and there might be something new in this bill, he would not oppose the introduction of the measure. Lord J. MANNERS said it was not correct to say that the select committee referred to by the right hon. gentleman had condemned this or any other bill having a similar object. What the committee did was this : they recom mended that time should be given to the masters to see whether they could not themselves do something to arrange the disputes between themselves and the employed. (Hear, hear.) Two years had elap se d s i nce t h at recommen dation_ a was given. H e h a d not h eard whether the masters eu Il during that p er i o d d one anything in the matter ; and before n r had during these circumstances h e was g l a d to find that the bill the house would be allowed to come on for a second reading in order that th e h ouse might have an opportunity of learn ing how things stood. (Hear, hear.) Mr. TURNER th oug h t he would, on the motion for a second reading, be able to show valid reasons for the rojeo tion of the measure. Leave was then given to bring in the bill. CHARITABLE ve USES. Mr. HADFIELD obtained lea to bring ofrh a bill fo to amend the l aw re l a ti ng to the conveyance land r charitable uses. SOCIETY OF FRIENDS.—MARRIAGES. Mr. MELLOR move d f or leave to b r i ng in a bill to amend the acts relati ng t o marr i ages i n E ng l an d and Ireland, and extending certai n p rov i s i ons th ereo f to p er sons professing with the S oc i e t y o f F r i en d s, ca ll e d Quakers. The hon. and learned gentle man sa id th a t th e object of the bill was to extend privileg es hith er t o en j o yed bymembers of the Society of Friends to persons holding the s ame views and desi rous of being m arr i e d accor di ng t o their usage. When th e bill was printed and laid upon the table it would, he th oug ht , be found t o b e one t o w hich no hon. member could h ave any objection. Leave was given to bring in the bill. ANNUITY TAX (EDINBURGH). Mr. BLACK moved for a return of the amount o f an nuity tax collected r in Edinburgh each year f or th e last ten years; of the clear revenue derived each y ear d uring the same period from e the seat rents of the fifteen city churches; of the clear revenue derived each year during the same period from all sources for the support of the city clergy ; and of the amount of stipend paid each year during the same period to each of the clergymen.--Agreed to. JERSEY COMMISSION. Mr. HADFIELD moved for a return showing the names of the commissioners, secretary, and of all other persons em ployed on the Jersey commissi on , and in what capacity they wer e employed; of the numb er o f d ays on which the com missioners met, distinguishing those days on which they met in Jersey front those days in which they met in Lon don ; and of the entire expense of the commission in detail up to the present time. Sir G. C. LEWIS said the present Government had no nt in recommending gthe commission. H e h ad, therefore, ar o personal interest in opposing the return ; but it was un usual, in the absence of allegation s of some neglect or mal practice, to accede to a motion that might seem to imply an accusation or a censure. When the estimate for the charges of the commission was brought forward that would bo the time to object to the expenditure; and it was premature to call for the recommendations of the commissioners at pre sent. Those recommendations would appear in their re port. Mr. W. WILLIAMS thought it was time the house should hear what these commissioners were doin After a few wor d s from Mr. HADFIELD, g. The motion was withdrawn. PACKET AND TELEGRAPH CONTRACTS. Mr. LAING, in the absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, moved the appointment of the select committee on packet and telegraphic contracts, and expressed his be lid that no opposition would be made to the motion. Mr. SPOO NER said that the hon. and gallant member for Berkshire (Captain L. Vernon) who had given notice of a motion upon that subject, had postponed it in consequence of the indisposition of the right hon. gentleman the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, and he did not thir.k it fair that under those circumstances tha present motion should be pro ceeded with at that moment. Sir G. C. LE WIS said that the motion of the hon. and gallant member for Berkshire had reference exclusively to the inquiries o f th e committee of last session, and could in no Way affect the present motion. The motion was then agreed to as follows : —That the se lect committee on packet and telegraphic contracts do con sist of 19 members. That the following members be mem bers of the committee—Sir Francis Baring, Sir Stafford Northcoto, Mr. Henry Herbert, M r . C orry, M r. Scholefield, Sir Henry Willoughby, Mr. Dunl o p, C ap t a i n Leicester Vernon, Mr. Baxter, Captain Gladstone, Mr. Hubbard, Mr. Robert Crawford, Mr. Hope, Mr. Laing, Mr. Bagley, Sir Edward Grogan, Mr. Howes, Mr. Edward Ellice, and Colonel Greville. Power to send for persons, papers, and records; five to be the quorum. THE QUEEN'S PRINTERS' PATENT. On the motion of Mr. BAINES, The select committee to inquire into the nature and ex. tent of the Queuf pun em patent l'Ar England and Wales, so far as relates to the right of printing the Holy Scrip tures ; and to report their opinion as to the propriety ofany future grant of that patent, was nominated as follows : Mr. Baines, Mr. Clive, Mr. Walpole, Mr. William Ewart, Sir Charles Douglas, Lord Robert Cecil, Mr. Bright, Mr. Selwyn, Mr. Crum Ewing, Mr. Arthur Mills, Mr. Crossley, Mr. Lefroy, and Lord Robert Montagu. Power to send for persons, papers, and records ' • five to be the quorum. TRAMWAYS (IRELAND) BILL. The bill was read a second time. The house then adjourned at a quarter-past seven o'clock. COUNTRY MARKETS. LIVERPOOL—FEB, "At O'lr market to-day th ere was a fair inquiry f or w h ea t, 1 ., holders generally requir e d a s li g h t advance, which checked business. Indian corn was very saleable at 6d per qr advance on the week. Flour was inactive, but very full rates were insisted on. SHEFFIELD—PEn. 7. The supply of wheat in bulk was larger than for SOlll4 weeks past, and a more cheerful tone pervaded the market. Malting barley in demand, and oats firm. Red wheat, per sack of 3 imperial bushels— 16s 6d to 18. 01 White ff lBs Od to 20.01 ff New red • 17s Od to It s 01 Beans If 1 f lf New white • 18s Od to 19 s 6d f I • 16s 6d to 204 Od ff fl Peas, per qr ..... , 42s Od to 48s Od Grinding barley, per qr 33s Od to 35s Od Malting clitth, „ 37. Od to 43.01 Oats 228 Od 30s 01 Millers' prices for flour-1s 6d, i s Bd, and Is to 10d per 141 b. LEEDS—FEB. 7. The transactions in wheat and barley are without much change in value from last week, but there was a better demand. Barley, fine dry qualities, is dearer. Oats ha fair request. Beans were firm at late rates. BRISTOL—FEB. 7. At the market to-day there was a fair attendance, and wheat had a tolerable inquiry, at the full prices of last week for both English and foreign. Grinding barley wad scarce and dear. Indian corn finds buyers at 6d to is ad • vance. NEWCASTLE -UNDER LYRE—FEB. 6. A moderate show of wheat at market, which met a brisk demand; and we mark an advance of la on the full rates of last week. Malting barley at higher rates ; grinding de scriptions meet a firm demand. Oats in request and in fa- Your of the seller. Beans remain unaltered. NORWICH CATTLE—FEB. 4. Our market to 'day exhibited a good show of store cattle, comprising Scots, shorthorns, and Irish. A moderate trade was effected, although there was a better attendance. At the close fully one. fourth of the stock remained unsold, at quite 105 per head lower. Scots, 4s to 4s 6d ; shorthorns, 3s 6d to 4s Od ; Irish, 3d 3d to 3s 6d ; Devons, Os Od to Os (estimated weight when fat). Fat beasts a very good show, at Ss Od to Es 6d per stone. Sheep—There were fair supplies of sheep in the pens. Fat sheep, 8s Od to 8s 6d per stone; prime, 9s. Pigs—A poor supply. Store pigs 25s to 30s ; fat pork, 8s Od to 8s 6d per stone. COURSE OF EXCHANGE.—YESTIMDIT. Amsterdam Ditto Rotterdam — 11 15} 11 16f Antwerp Brussels Hamburgh Paris Ditto Marseilles — 25 35 25 44 Frankfort on Maine — 117 117 k Vienna Trieste Petersburgh —34 f Madrid Cadiz —49 f Leghorn — 30 37f 30 45 Genoa — 25 40 26 479 Naples Palermo — 1211 121 Messina — 121 122 Lisbon Oporto Rio Janeiro New York — OP •• Foreign Gold in Bars (Standard)....per oz. /3 17 • 9 Mexican Dollars oo.. ” I 0 0 Silver in Bars (Standard) ft 0 5 21 South American Doublons FOREIGN MAIL PACKET LIST. In the following table E signifies that letters are despatched by evening mails from London, and M by morning mails. GAME FOR ADELAIDE.—We learn from the Register that a new traffic (and which promises fair to be come a profitable one) has recently sprung up in Adelaide. It seems that two spirited individuals had gone to the lakes o f the Murray to shoot an d net game. In carrying out their object they had furnished themselves with every re quisite to ensure success, including, among other weapons of destruction, a boat fitted up with six swivel guns, a la Colonel Hawker. The first consignment had reached town in splendid condition, and consisted of black dusk, red duck, widgeon, teal, geese, penguin, ducks, mountain ducks, na tive pheasants, native hens, &c., to the number of over 100 brace, and weighing nearly 8 cwt.—Australian hell. [ADVERTISEKENT ] — HoIIoway' a Pills and Ointment.— Colds, Sore Throat. —The winter in our climate is always attended by more or less irritation in the throat and chest; and immediate care and attention are required to avert worse evils. Holloway's Pills and Ointment may be used by all persons in all siege s o f these complaints with effi ciency any. The Pills should be freely taken inter nally, and the Ointment should be briskly rubbed on the glands of the neck and top of the chest twice a-day, at least, until all inconveniences pass away. They soon allay the irritability, remove the feeling of oppression, and regu late the circulation of the blood. They expel all morbific matter, and purify every solid and fluid in the body. [AnvEnTisnmEr].—Du Barry's delicious Revalenta Arabica Food invariably restores health, without medicine, inconvenience, or expense, as it saves 50 times its cost in other remedies, and removes indigestion (dyspepeia), flatu lency, constipation, nervous bilious, and liver complaints, oough, asthma, consumption, and debility. We extract a few out of 50,000 testimonials of cures, which had resisted all medicine. Cure No. 4,208.—" Eight years' dy s p eps i a, nervousness, debility, with cramps, spasms, and naus ea, have been effectually removed by Du Barry's delicious food in a very short time.—Rev. John W. Maven, Ridlington Rectory, No r f o lk." C ure No. 54,618, of a lady of 107 years of age.—." Wandsbeck, near Hamburg, 12th M ay , 1857. 1 hereby cert if y that my mother-in-law, Mrs. Holze, who has just completed her 107th year, after having suffered for half a century and more from indigestion (dyspepsia), and eonsequent disorders has been perfectly cure d b y B arry ' s Revalenta Arabica Food, and is now enabled to digest almost any kind of food with great comfort.—W. Holze." In tins, at Is. 6d. ; Ilb., 3s. ; 21b., ss. 9d. ; 61b. , 125.; 121 h, 265. The 101 b. and 121 b. tins earriage free, on receipt of post office order. Du Barry and Ce., 77, Regent-street, London' Fortnum, Mason, and Co., 182, Piccadilly ; Alibis, 60, Gracechurch-street ; 4, Ch eaps id e ; 63 and 150, Oxford street ; 330 and 451, Strand ; 49 and 60, Bishopsgate• street ; 85, Tottenham-court-road. Also at Dublin. Bewley and Draper ; at Edinburgh, Raimes and Co. at Liverpool, Nixon and Thew; at Manchester, Sharp and Scott; at York, Raimes, Blanchard, and Co.; at South ampton. kande)/ and Son. 9 5 rit BIRTHS. Cowry.--On the 4th inst., at Norwood, the wife of Henry, Cowie, Esq., of a daughter. FATRHOLIM—On the sth inst., at Leamington, the lady of George K. E. Fairholme, Esq., of Old Melrose, of a KIN GSCOTE.—On the 4th inst., at 34, Charles-street, Ber keley-square, London, the Lady Emily Kingecote, of a daughter. 'MARRIAGES. SUITII—BEAN.—On the 7th inst., at Marylabone parish church, the Rev. John Smith, rector of Hinton Parra, Wilts, to Elizabeth, daughter of the late Mr. H. Bean, Uckfield, Sussex. TA. I . I . I3 NT — CRAWSHAY.—On the 4th inst., at St. Peter's, Eaton-square, John Thomas Tallent, Esq., of Hingham, Norfolk, to Jane Crawshay, third daughter of the late Richard Crawshay, Esq., of Ottershaw-park, Surrey. DEATHS. - BELL.—On the 31st ult., at Devonshire. Cottage, New road, Hammersmith, Win. Bell, Esq., aged 72. BROWN. —On the 2d inst., Ellison, fourth son of Mr. Sarni. Brown, of 19, En g l e fi e ld -road west, Isfington, and of the Stock Exchange, aged 15. BURNETT.—On the 30th ult., at Ifoxton, Mr. J. Burnett, aged 63. lIENSMIN.—On the sth inst., at Tunbridge-w e ll s , Buswell I fensman, Esq., formerly of IChubelton, Huntingdon shire, aged 89. MneNAnn.—On. the 4th inst., at Highfield-park, James Munro M acna bb , late of Arthurstone, ce. rertb, aged 70. MA CKINTOSIL—On the sth inst., a t 28, P orc h ester- t erra ce, Baysw a t er, A nn, wife of A. Mackintosh, Esq. Wiinn.—On the sth inst., Mr. Jam es Webb, of 440, Ox ford-street, aged 30. Hants, LONDON : Printed and Published by MTIRDO YOTS.IIV of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Bun Office, No:. 1 12 : Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, i n the cotuiti " Middlesex, Wednesday, February 8, 1860, Next - DESTINATIONS. Despatch Port of Mail of Mails. Despatch. due. Australia and Mauritius, via Southampton Feb. 11, E Southamp. Feb. 9 Ditto, via Marseilles Bahamas and Havana via New York Feb. 17, El March ; Liverpool— Feb. 18 Canada, &c. (by Canadn. pckt.) Feb. 8 , ` 'Liverpool—, Feb. 8 Cape of Good Hope, Ascen sion, and St. Helena , Feb. —, E D evouport Mardi $ China, Penang, and Singa pore, via Southampton /Feb. 20, IllSouthamp. Feb, 18 Ditto, via Marseilles Feb. 10 E braltar, via Southam p ton F e b . ii , Southantp. Feb . F eb 9 ` Honduras and Blewflelds Feb. 17, Southamp. Feb. 18 India (Calcutta) an d C eylon, via Southampton Feb. 20, M Southamp. Feb. 111 Ditto, via Marseilles India (Bombay), via South ampton Feb. 11, M Southamp. Feb. 9 Ditto, via Marseilles Lisbon, Brazils,Buenos Ayres, and F. Islands Lisbon, Vigo, and Oporto Feb. —,lll outhamp. Feb. 11 Malta, Egypt, and Ades, via Southampton Feb. 11, M Southamp. Feb. 9 Ditto, via Marseilles Mexico and Havana'outhamp. • Newfoundland United States and British N America (by British packet) Feb. 11, E Liverpool.. Feb. S Ditto (by u. S. packet) M Feb. I, E outhatap. dcira, and Teneriffe West Coast of Africa, a- Feb. 23 B Liverpool.. Feb. 10 West India, California, Vene zuela, Chili, Peru, Grey town, New Granada, &e.• • Feb. 17,111 Soutkamp. Feb. 16 • triti • the • , TI Wit itot area rton wine stre: Th valid 'the b actlat facui To of th All • V 7 V TR.& -Mon Bent. Erases the T Xing seat 1 At t Which belple Inittee the n patien eircum of tun( ber of The as mai at the 10,58 either The .111 ed by Cont Esq., .Mond: ,Grote, Jones, Willie bet and Armpit ..The 'The i •tween - Nlnst : I IF IZ 111PLrIta DIS BYSTE age, VIS( gang all why till they ea tozetha feetion. B Medina _Street, 1 noster-i T° T by Dr. IC C.. "The Review. " Tho the Aut' health a medical " The " The the aim plain* and east seated." • CAIN Public g doubt s • or partie Irene the et Ree s the price public bi TIU tb inirably liver, an tion), hal nervousi noises 11 hysteria, palpitati eramps, asthma, plaints, tion, strc tional re; to them( Pat. S. I Dr. wilt.; / 41 k, _ . • _ MR an Cui Ilt col h o of tl to t , 13 purl, !egg R( Fount _Vi Pt Cd., It