The Sun. — London, England, 1829-05-06 00:00:00

introduced. But ber^ nrra;n the blame would rest with Governrre3t, and nut with that House. Let the House of Commons (10 its duty, and the responsibility of delay or pretractiun would rest with the Government. Mr. DUNCOMI3E did hope and trust that as well for the sake of these more immediately eonn:ected, as of the interests of the country, the subject would not be protracted beyond the present Session.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. ESTCOUBT thnught it would be impolitic and unjust to introduce the measure in the caurse of the pre tcr,t Session. Mr. H. GURNEY thought it would be hitter to wait 'until the next session rather ►han enter into the discussion at so late a period of the year as at present. Mr. Secretary PEEL was not aware that any iinputa ai,,o cotilil be cast upon his Majesty's Ministers, with re ileet to this motion ; and if such imputation was cast, he inust say tiat it was totally unfounded. It was quite dear to Hon. Members, that the early pact of this Session id been a peculiar one, and fat med no established rule ; it had been altotrether occupied in disposing of the great Question of Catholic Emancipation.—(Hear, hear.) — There was great difficulty in considering the question of siisfrauchising the borough of East Retford, and transferring tie representation to some other town. He had e petlect mcoileetien of the manner in which the East Danford Ques tion was brought before the House. It came under their consideration in -the shape of a petition, complaining of liril,ery and corruption. The case went to a Committee, who reported that the candidates had been guilty of treat ing ; but there was no other charge of bribery or corrup tion rrove•l. Mr. BROUGHAM elys,erved, that there Wers._, tiro cliarge,s of bribery and corruption proved. . . Mr. Secretary PEEL was aware, that in the preamble Bill the words bribery and corruption were u•ed ; hut he believed that the election had been set aside on the gi ound of treating, The Right Hon. Gent. proceeded to come extracts from the Report rf the Committee, from whieh it appeared that the electors were in the habit ref receiving 20 guineas foe a single vote, and those who vette! for both candidates received 40 guineas. Upon that 'Report it was revolved, that Mr. Speaker should not issue hi 4 writ for a new election until time was granted fur ter:ber inquiry. Upon that occasion the House had come to a decision, that the corrupt state of the borough of East Retford was Mich as to require serious investigation ; but the difficulty lie felt was that of being able to enter effectually into that investigation during the present Seision. Ile wished that there had been an opportunity of introducing this subject early in the Session ; but a , that had not been the case, he trusted it would-be allowed to stand over to next year. If, however, the Hon. Member persevered in pressing his motion, he hoped the lien. Mernher fir Hertfordshire (Mr. N. Calvert) would introduce Ibis Amendment—that of growing open the right of voting to the Hundred of Bassetlaw ; that measure he would suppelt. Sir C. FORBES observed, that if every Borough in coach corruption existed were to be disfranchised, he feared they would hr i e but a thin House of it.—(Hear.) Sir T. P. ACLAND thought it most advisable that the question with respect to East Retfurd should be postponed next Session of Parliament. Mr. Alderman WAITH3IAN had made up hif mind to vote for transferring the Elective Franchise from East Re cord to Manchester, Birmingham, or some other large town.—(Hear.) He differed altogether with the Hon. slembcr for Ilertforshire ; and begged to observe, that sooner than extend the right of voting to the Hundred of lass.-tlasv, he would consent to restore it to the Borough cf East Retford again. He hoped the Hon. Member fur Hertfordshire would weigh the question maturely in his mind ; and that, under ail the circumstances of the case, it would be allowed to stand over to next Session. Ihe petition was then brought up. Upon the question that it be read, Mr. TENNYSON was desirous of putting it to the Eight Hon. Gentleman opposite, as to whether he thought there was any probable chance of carrying such a measure tlimugh both Houses during the present Session ; because, if there was not, it would be madness in him to take up the time of llon. Members uselessly.—(Hear.) Mr. Secretary PEEL, in answer to the Hon. and ',Yarned Member, he had only to speak with reference to other Bills of this nature. The Penryn Disfranchisement Bill was introduced on the Ist of April, and was not dis posed of until the 29(11 of May. The Grampound Dis franchi,cment Bill was introduced into the House of Lords on the 20th of March, 1821, anti it was not disposed of until the 21.411 of May; so that in the other House one Bill occupied nine weeks, and the other seven weeks. Colonel WOOD said it should be recollected that there was a great accumulation of business in the House of Lords towards the close of the Session. Mr. 0. CAVE trusted the Hon. Gentleman would per- Fist in his determination. The petition was then brought up. On the motion that it be laid on the table, Mr. G. LAMB wished only to say that he had not im puted any blame to the Hon. Member for the delay which had taken place—that delay had arisen from peculiar cir cumstances. and not from the dilatoriness of the Hon. illemher—hut that was no alleviation of the hardship to the Boroue. Mr. LIDDELL was favourable to the postponement of the discussion to another Session. Mr. P. THOMSON thought it would be highly in convenient to postpone the discussion, as the country was looking up to them for a decision of the question. An Hon. Miotsza, whose name we could not learn, said, that further delay would give the inhabitants of East Retibrd good reason to address the House agiin with petitions. &r C. FORBES—I think the time of this House will 1 . have been much misapplied, if we are thus to get rid of this impot taut question for the third time, and in the third Se•sion of Parliament. It is altogether an extraordinary proceeding. It is very well got up.—(A 1 iugh.)—The parts are well played on both sides.—(Laughter.)—l know I must admit that I am one of the players.—(Hear, rind laughter.)-1 don't deny it; but I have played my part conscientiously, without favour or affction to this side or the other side of the House, to the Ins or to the Outs.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. BROUGHAM—I am no party to the play in which the Hon. Member oppesite says he has borne no part, in which he has neither joined this nor that side of the House.—(Sir C. Forbes—Nor any indiveedual in it) —nor any indiveeducl in it—!Laughter)—and when the Hon. Member takes on himself to say that he has no doubt there is a general juggle, of which he accuses all around him, in order completely to get out of the way this great and important question, by getting it postponed in. another annual period, I have no manner of doubt, that in two minutes by that clock, he will be proved to be completely and entirely mistaken. Don't let him, however, suppose (though I am very sorry to dispel the flattering illusion) that his interference, or the observations be has made on the conduct if all parties, have had any the very slightest effect in producing the frustration of his own confident prediction; for I can inform him that, before he uttered one word of that sweeping accusation, which he directed against all parties, my Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Bletchingley, was a competitor with him for the right of addressing the House, in order to declare that he had made up his mind to proceed with this ques tion.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. TENNYSON observed, that having taken all the pains he could to ascertain the sense of the House en this question, lip should persist in his motion. - The notate of motion was then read. EAST RETFORD DISFRANCHISEMENT Mr. TENNYSON, in bringing forward his motion trusted it might be allowed to rest on its own merits. He trusted that the time had now arrived when the Govern ment would allow the House to decide this question, o n th e same principles as those upon which the administrations of Mr. Canning and Lord Liverpool had—the one in 1821, the other in 1827—decided the cases of Grantham and of P.-nryn—mmely, as an open question. But, whatever might be the decisiOn of the Right Hon. Gentlemen oppo site on this point, he (Mr, Tennyson) disclaimed the ques tion as a party one. It was unfit for a party question. and ought to be submitted to the fair decision of the House ; and in whatever light the Right Hon Gentleman might look upon the question, he (Mr. Tennyson) introduced it in no hostility to him. He adhered steadily to the propo sition which he submitted to the House in the last Session of Parliament, and its 1827,—namely, to transfer the fran chise, which East Retford had forfeited by delinquency to the unrepresented town of Birmingham ; and he thought he might venture to assume that the Right Hon. Gentle man hail no insurmountable objection to such a proposi tion, as he had pledged himself to acquiesce in it, provided Parliament should agree to extend the franchise of the borough of Penryn to the neighbouring hundred. No man could disguise from himself that the time was not far dis tant when the Parliament would be compelled to give the choice of representatives to all the large manufacturing towns. Was the House to wait until that second act of justice should be wrested from it ? He thought he might venture to say, without fear of contradiction, that it was the general opinion of this nation that by some means or other the right of representation should: be awarded to those great unrepresented places. For all these reasons he begged to submit his ; motion to the House, for leave to bring in a Bill to exclude the borou l h 4 East Retford rota electing burgesses _to serve in Parliament, and to enable the town of Birmingham to return two represen- tatives in Parliament in lieu thereof Mr. J. MARSHALL aeconded the motion. Mr. N. CALVERT had no objection that the manufac turing town of Birmingham should possess the right of re presentation, but he objected to that town possessing the right at the expence of East Retford-. Mr. WILBRAIAAM said that flit 41testiori.iirow before the Houle steed en a' i.'ty different footing from that 'on which it was placed last Session. At that time they had reason to believe that two boroughs would be prevented from sending Members to Parliament; and though he could not entirely concur in the proposal which the Right Hon. Secretary for tire Home Department then made, of transferring the franchise of one of those boroughs to a manufacturing town, and giving the other to the landed interest, yet he must confess the proposition was specious, and, considering the situation in which the Right llon. Gentleman stood, more, perhaps, could not not be ex • petted from him. But the question stood now on a very different footing. The House was at present bound by no treaty like that to which he had just alluded. There was no double case, but the question was simply the event cf the borough of Retford being disfranchised, shall the right of sending two Members to Parliament be trans ferred to the town of Birmingham, or to the hun dred of Baseetlaw Was it, he asked, just or politic to withhold the elective franchise from great towns, for no other reason than because they had not heretofore possessed it? That the landed interest was fully represented in that House was quite evident ; that the great manufacturing towns were not represented at all, was equally dear. The proposition of the Hon. Member for Hertfordshire went, in fact, to diminish tl,e constituent body of England ; for he proposed to give the franchise to the hundred of Has setiawa *which was already sufficiently represented. le • begged to ask what were the elements of the eon- , stituent body ? Were they net numbers, wealth, and intelligence ? The population and wealth of Bir mingham it was unnecessary to irisist upon, and he be lieved that it contained some hundreds of persons who possessed quite as much intelligence as the worthy electors of the hundred of Ba-setlaw. Yet, this simple mode of removing the existing blot on the representative system— namely, the transfer of the forfeited franchise to liirming ham,—was to be passed by, because it was said to be a measure cf Parliamentary Reform. He regretted the blow which was struck against the principle of reform, more particularly on account of the hand whence it proceedtd, and the support it was likely to receive from a body of gentle men whose opinions on other subjects he much respected. The Marquis of BLANDFORD opposed the motion. Mr. WOOD expressed his intention to give the motion his decided support. Mr. G. BANKES complained that Hon. Members were arguing the question on general principles, without reference to tire particular evidence applicable to the pecu liar case. The House were bound to decide judicially on the question, with reference to the evidence which had been brought before them. On that principle he was in clined to give his preference to the proposition of the Hon. Member fur Hertfordshire. The impression of his mind was, that the evidence was not of a nature to justify the complete removal of the franchise from East Itetford ; but he thought that, by adopting the proposition of the Hon. Member for Hertfordshire, justice would be satisfied, and ample punishment inflicted. Lord NORNIANBY concurred in the prrpos . tion of the lion. Member (Mr. Tennyson). That the House had a might to regulate the franchise of boroughs according to circumstances, would not be denied. They had seen an exercise of that right on a recent occasion, when Parlia ment took away the right of a whole body of electors in the sister kingdom, against whom nothing had been proved but an independent exercise of their franchise. Without going into the question as to whether the House spoke the sense of the people, which had been brought for ward by the Nohle Marquis (o(Blandford), he must say that the argument of the Noble Lord did not apply to the case of East Retford ; in that case bribery had been most clearly made out against the majority of the electors. It was proved there, that a candidate was judged of, not by the weight of his principles, but by the weight of his purse. It was therefore a case in which Parliament was called upon to interfere. As a Parliamentary reformer he was anxious to get what he could, for he knew that the majority of that House was against reform ; but that was no reason why they should not encourage such motions as this, where a clear case of gross corruption had been esta blished. Mr. BATTLEY opposed the motion. Mr. FERGUSSON had examined the evidence in this case with much attention, and felt satisfied that the alleged guilt was proved. He was sorry that this should be made a party question, for be was unwilling that any measure should be introduced which could tend to embarrass a Mi nistry to which the country owed so great a debt of grati tude as to the present; but, without having any such in tention, he must support the motion. After a few words in explanation from Mr. G. BANKES which were not heard in the gallery, Mr. LIDDELL said he was sorry to be obliged to vote against the Government, to which he admitted so much was due, for their recent wise and generous conduct ; but he was sure the time would arrive when he should dwell with great satisfaction on his present vote. Mr. LUMLEY opposed the motion, on the ground that there was not sufficient evidence to support it. Sir J. YORKE said, that although only very lately a reformer, yet on the question of East Retford, the evidence on which he had read with attention, he thought there could he no question that it ought to be disfranchised. He bad also come to the conclusion,—and that on the reason ing of the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Depart ment,—that the franchise ought net to be transferred to a narrow district, but to some large town ; and, as Bir mingham had been named, he would say, let it be Bir mingham. Every man hid his view of reform; but as the new ga.-light had broken in upen his old oil-light, he would say, that if there was to be a teform, there could not be a better than exchanging from a corrupt small bo rough to a large and populous town. Mr. Alderman WA ITI 1111 AN next addressed the House, amidst incessant coughing, which rendered the commence ment of his speech quite inaudible in the gallery. He was understood to say that he should support the transfer of this franchise to the town of Birmingham, and not to the neighbouring hundred. He would rather send it back again to East Retford than consent to transfer it to the hundred of Bassetlaw. Mr. WYNN said, that upon a full consideration of the case, he was convinced that gross, habitual, and long con tinued corruption had been established against the borough of East Retford. He had never conceived that in cases of this kind the House was bound to have specific evidence against a majority of the electors. If the present were a penal, instead of a remedial Bill, he should say that the House was bound to observe all the rules of evidence adopted in Courts of Justice. But in this case the delin quent was not an individual, but a borough. By favour of his Hon. Friend behind him, he had seen the petition which had been presented from the burgesses of East Ret ford. It was a very curious document ; anti he had no ticed that there was an erasure in it affecting a point of such deep interest as the number of voters in the borough of East Retford. The petition stated that there were in that borough 213 voters,—and the figurea 213 were writ • ten upon an erasure. He could not help connecting in his own mind that erasure with the object which the peti tioners wished to accomplish by their petition. They called themselves a majority of the burgesses of the place and of how many persons did the House think that this' virtuous majority consisted ? Of 107 exactly. So nicely were the scales balanced, that there were 106 corrupt, and not more than 107 uncorrupt electors in the borough 1 of East Retford.—(A laugh.)—The evidence however was strong as to the general expectation and feeling of corrup tion in that borough ; and the question for the House to de cide was, whether it was satisfied that the borough was so generally corrupt, that there was no probability that it would ever discharge its functions fairly in future. He had no difficulty in proceeding with the borough of East Retford, on account of its corruption being so great and undeniable; and indeed upon that point the House had long since decided. The question, therefore, for their pre sent consideration was, whether it would be most bene ficial to the country to throw into the hundred of Baseet law the franchise which the House had decided should not be left with the burgesses of East Retford, or to transfer it to the large and unrepresented town of Birmingham. He should certainly vote in favour of the proposition of the Hon. Member for Bletchinglev. Mr. HUSKISSON next addressed the House. He was understood to say, that having always been an opponent of Parliamentary reform, he approached with little satis faction any subject calculated to bring that question into a prominent point of view. Protesting, therefore, in the first place, against any revision of the representative sys tem of this country, he admitted that when a place like East Retford had been guilty of gross, habitual, and long continued corruption, when that corruption was brought to light, and when the proof of it was placed clearly be fore the House of Commons, it had no other alternative but to apply a remedy to specific evil which had been hroughtunder its consideration. Further than the declara tion which he had just made, he was not prepared to go.— He should be wasting the time of the House most unpar donably if he should go through the evidence to establish the general corruption which prevailed in East Retford. It was sufficient to state the caudidates for that borough were never called upon to make any declaration of their political principles. The only declaration t principle which the burgesses of that place expected from a candi date was his .declaration that lie would do " what was just and right" according to the custom of the borough. That declaration he fulfilled, if lie gave the electors their 40 gninea.i and ii was in evidence that tile return ing officer of the boroUgh, the aldermen of the borough, and even the town clerk himself, had, participated in these corrupt transactions. The question then before the House was, how should they deal with the franchise which the electors of East Retford had forfeited ; and they were now called upon to determine whether they would transfer it to some large unrepresented town like Birmingham, or Whether they would pursue the course which they had pursued in thy case of Grampound, when they had transferred it to a county, or whether they would enlarge the franchise by admitting into it those persons who were already entitled to vote for the county of Nottingham, and who were situate in the adjacent hundred of Bassetlaw. He had heard with regret the declaration made by his Right Hon. Friend that evening, that he should give his decided support to this last proposition, which came before the House as the amendment of the Honour. able Member for the county of Hertford. He conceived that this support was to be given with all the just sup port and authority of his Majesty's Government ; and lie had therefore no doubt but that his Right Honourable Friend would be successful. lie should regret that suc cess, because it would not be in unison with the senti ments of the community at large; he should regret that success, because be was convinced that it would increase in the public mind the feeling which already misled in fa vour of parliamentary reform : he should regret that suc cess, because lie felt that it would ensure the adoption of a course which must pave the way for so fatal a measure as a general parliamentary reform. He would take the li berty of informing his Majesty's Ministers that he had thought it possible that, looking to the arguments which they had formerly produced upon this question, they might have changed their policy upon it, from a consideration of the state of public feeling, and of the march of events within the last year. When he talked of the march of events, he thought that lie might perhaps ha allowed to recall them shortly to the recollection of the House.— About this time two years the Hon. and Learned Member for Winchilsea crossed the floor of the House, to the great surprise of the country, and took up his seat in a corner at the back of the Treasury-hench. That Hon. and Learned Gentleman—the le-tder, he might call him, of a great party in that House, for on that occasion many Hon. Members followed him—had no sooner made good his situation in that outwork, generally so well and so cautiously guarded, than some time quite inaiptible in the gallery when lie was again audible, he was proceeding to this efiectl—As soon as they (we do not know to whom the Right Honourable Gentleman alladed) had recovered from their breath• less alarm, the House was told that they saw in this movement of the Honourable and Learned Member for Winchilsea the earnest of a great change which was shortly to be accomplished among political parties. They considered that it involved consequences the most alarming—they saw in it the repeal of the Test and Corporation Act—they saw in it the settlement of the Catholic claims—they saw in it nothing less than the ac complishment of Parliamentary reform. The Session ended, however, without any of the points being either carried or assailed. At the opening of the next Session the Hon. and Learned Member for Winchilsea had re turned to his old place on the opposite benches. New leaders had been appoiuted.—(Here again the Hon. Mem ber was for some time perfectly inaudible.)—When next we heard him, he was stating that the fact was, that early in the ensuing Session, after a very feeble resistance, and on the very first summons, the Test and Corporation Acts were given up. In the present Session, the Catholic question had been granted without the slightest sutnmons, and on conditions more favourable than any which had ever been previously thought of. Now what remained be hind ?—Parliamentary reform. He trusted that it would long remain behind. He hoped that the House would always resist it firmly and strenuously.—(Hear.)—He was sure that if the House adopted the proposition of his Hon. Friend the Member for Bletchingley, the chance of its making a successful resistance to Parliamentary reform would be increased ; but that if it adopted the proposition of the Hon. Member for the county of Hertford, it would see Parliamentary reform, backed by a powerful auxiliary out of that House—he meant public opinion—made an annual question of discussion. It was on grounds like these that lie was anxious to give his support to the pro position of his Hon. Friend the Member for Bletchingley. He should not condescend to argue this question as a ques tion between the landed &sad the commercial interests of the country. It was to him matter of wonder that any man could suppose that the character of the House would be changed by giving this franchise either to the hundred of Bassetlaw or to the town of Birtninghatn. He objected to the distinction which some Hon. Members were drawing between the landed and the commercial in terests. He contended that the history of this country, and more emphatically the history of Ireland, proved that it was on the co-operating industry and success of the commercial interest that the prosperity of the landed in terest mainly rested. Destroy the energies of commerce, and your land will soon fall into that unproductive state in which it was before this great stimuli to improvement were created. It had been stated as a justification of the course which Government had resolved to follow upon this subject, that the two Houses of Parliament were divided in opinion as to the best mode of dealing with forfeited franchises, and that this had been adopted, as forming a middle course, on which both could agree. Ile admitted it to he true, that in the present question the two Houses of Parliament were divided in opinion. The House of Commons had shown by its votes, on more than one oc casion, that it was of opinion that the great manufactur ing towns of the country, which were unrepresented, ought to be represented. It had sent up Bills in which that opi nion was formally avowed, to the other House of Parlia ment. The other House of Parliament differed from them ; and up to this time both Houses seem firmly at tached to their respective opinions. His Right Honour able Friend (the Home Secretary) was not unfriendly to the principle which he (Mr. Huskissoo) sup ported ou this measure ; and, therefore, he was the more surprised to find him supporting the amend ment of the Honourable Member fur Hertfordshire. As to the great question which had just been settled in . a free state, and wh e r e p o p u l ar assem bli es prevailed, those who supposed that the adjustment of a measure which had so fiercely agitated and led popular excitement for 25 years would settle all conflicting differences, would find them selves mistaken,—at least if they thought that the great measure being disposed of, no other was likely to arise for embodying public agitation and excitement. There were those topics still unsettled which must be heard, and must in due course be determined. It was very difficult, in deed impossible, to look at the dangerous condition of the manufacturing districts without reflecting upon the evils which must be contingent upon the associations arising out of them ; and how easy it might be to convert associations, innocent in themselves, to the promotion of ulterior objects of a very different complexion, and capable of being made the source of the greatest danger to the best interests of the country. These reflections naturally, nay necessarily sug gested thoughts which ought to call their attention to the difficulties arising out of the change of their circutnstances both in this kingdom and in foreign countries. Let these considerations he promptly viewed and judged with saga city. Was it because they had most wisely and most for tunately stopped in one country the crater of that immense volcano which threatened Ireland with universal danger and wide-spreading conflagration, that they were to cease from looking into the recesses of those sub• terraneous caverns, where the elements of fire must still be enkindling, and the latent springs of danger preserved with all their elastic force? In the present state of society,—in that of the population even of Ire land, in the absence of poor laws for that country—(upon the policy or applicability of which he now pronounced no opinion),—in the want of adequate capital to afford employment to an impoverished race,—in the comparative relation of landlord and tenant,—in all the various ramifi cations arising out of such a disorganized state of things,— there was much remaining unsettled. There was much to be done by the Parliament and the Government, and many duties to he performed in the reconciliation of sup posed adverse interests. Now it was impossible to glance at the proximity of these difficult questions without seeing how much they must be aggravated by the disfranchising this borough of East Retford, fitr the mere purpose of transferring the franchise to the adjoining hundred of Bas setlaw ?—(Hear.)—The Hon. Member for Hertford (Mr. N. Calvert) was indeed so well convinced of this himself— (and to his view of that fact he begged to point the parti cular attention of the House)—and so entirely persuaded of the universal corruption which reigned through the borough, that in his first Bill lie hail proposed to disfran chise the whole of these corrupt voters en masse, and throw open the franchise to the county. He had since, however, forgetful of his first and juster intention, changed his plan, and merely changed the form of election in the borough, and intended it fur the hundred of Bassetlaw.— (A cry of 6 , N a .")--Was he to understand that his Hon. Friend did not bring in such a Bill as he had described, and then abandon it ? Mr. N. CALVERT.—You mistake : I did not bring in a Bill of that specific description. I certainly brought in two Bills, one for the disfranchisement of those who were guilty of gtdss btibsry and corruption ; and the other for transferring the franchise. Mr. HUSKISSON—Then the tenderness displayed in the alteration is not justice in the general principle iVhich Might to govern such a case. It was creating, or tatter stiperinducing, embarrassment where none pre viously existed ; far the case originally, and indeed at pre sent, when rightly considered, was simply this. They were, as the Committee had left the subject upon the facts, at perfect liberty, more than Parliament had been on any previous occasion when such a subject had been submitted for their decision, to disfranchise East Retford, and to tarty the franchise and rights so forfeited to any part of the country they thought proper.—(Hear.)—The moment upon just grounds such a decision was competent for them to make, he knew nothing in the history of the Constitu tion, in the precedent of their former proceedings upon the like grounds, in the analogy of the decisions upon any cases appertaining to such principles, which attached a prefe rence in the transference to mire vicinity or proximity than to any other part of the kingdom at large. This being the fact, whence the policy of overlooking the claims of such a town as Birmingham, with a population of 140,000 souls, to bring in some local kundred,—with the palpable knowledge of Birmingham, one of the great quarters of a staple of the iron manufacture of ' the country, being unrepresented in Parliament; at the sam e time knowing, likewise, Leeds, the great mart of the woollen trade, being in the same state, and Shef field, the depository of the hardware trade ? Was this a time when such a question was raised, to decide in the negative, that Birmingham should not be represented at all, and that a forfeited franchise should be assigned to one of the hundreds which was directly represented by the county members as well as indirectly by the borough members, in the management of whose representative sources so much could possibly be said ? So that in the hundred thy were to have the exercise of the representa tive functions twice, and to have a twofold capacity of re turning members, while the large towns, with the great interests which he had named, were to be deprived of the chance of a single nomination. Ought any man in his right senses to hesitate as to the course which it was pro ' per to adopt under such circumstances? If Ilirmingliam ought to be represented at all, which he thought there were cogent reasons for admitting,..—indeed, lie should by and by state them more strongly,—ought a question to arise upon the alternative whether such would lie the case, or whether a hundred in the county, like Bassetlaw,—one emphatically named in the local topography as the Dukery (Hear, hear),—should have the chance of being directly represented? It was a matter of indifference to him in whom the nomination should lie in such a case; enough was it for him, upon the general principle, to know that the county of Nottingham had now eight representatives; and that Warwickshire, the depository of great trailing interests, had now only six, and with a population so much denser and more conflicting, and under every circumstance so very differently constituted. When the selection was pressed upon Parliament by any particular occurrence, what answer could be given to the claims of such a town as Birmingham, with trading in terests largely mixed up in the general commercial bearings of the manufactures of the country? His Hon. Fmiend, the member for Hertford, had alluded to the boroughs in the West of England, and said how well they worked.— Upon this, he (Mr. Huskisson) meant to say nothing more than that lie knew enough of these matters to wish to avoid discussing them in particular detail. After all, in the pre sent case the question was—had, in the particular instance, that degree of forfeiture been itcurred by bribery which justified the total disfranchisement of the borough ? It was not necessary, in the fulfilment of the principle that governed these transactions, that each individual should, in the pursuit of what he conceived to be his private interest, have vio'atcd his public trust ; it was enough to show that the general corruption was so notorious in the body ex ercising the franchise, that they did not deserve to he invested with public rights ; their franchise beta me, in such a case, vitiated ; and, in fact, there was no other way of deal ing with the principle. They must act upon the general con dition of the place. He knew that in enforcing these opinions he was exposing himself to the repetition of the imputation of being of late governed solely by revolutionary theories. All such charges he challenged with the fullest denial, and dared the authoas of them to meet him upon the proof. When gentlemen talked of the dangers of innova tion, they ought to remember, with Lord Bacon, " that time was the great innovator." Time had 'raised these great interests and populous towns, and it was the busi ness of a statesman to move onwards with the new combi nations which had grown about him. If he did not put himself in advance, at least he ought to follow them with a cautious, a prudent, but a steady step. It had been Said most happily by one of the most nervous and power ful of modern Poets, that " A thousand years scarce serve to form a State— One hour may serve to lay it in the grave." Upon the principle entertained in these lines he had uni fortnly endeavoured to avoid any rash, hasty, or danger ous experiments. and lie had always borne it in his mind, that one hour might serve for the destruction of their long and proudly cherished power. The Right Honourable Gentleman concluded by conjuring the House to adopt that principle of wise and b-neficial Reform which was now placed within their reach, and they would experi ence the same effects from their concession as those so beautifully described by Mr. Burke, in rpeaking of the Welch, and which were embodied in that quotation so elegantly applied by the Noble Lord at the head of the law departments of this country (the Lord Chancellor), in the discussions upon the Catholic Relief Bill. Ile did not at that moment recollect the words, but he was con fident that by conferring this favour upon the great ma nufacturing interests of the country, they would allay discontent and sacure themselves against the consequences of innovations which circumstances had rendered un avoidable.—(Hear, hear.) Ale. PEEL must say, that notwiti.strnding the sur pri.e and regret of his Right Hon. Friend who spoke last, at the course which he (Mr. Peel) was about to take, he could not see the extraordinary cause for it, when he was merely supporting the resolution of the House of Com mons of last year, under what appeared to him, at least, very similar circumstances. In return for this expression of astonishment, his Right Hon. Friend must allow him to give way to some surprise at a few of the observations which hal just fallen from him. He must be allowed to dive-t himself of all credit for that general horror for re form which his Right Hon. Friend had imputed to him, as well as of some of the arguments in support of reform, with which he seemed disposed to invest him. Indeed, according to the expressions of his Right Hon. Friend, it Was obvious that the Noble Lord opposite ought to depend upon his vote for his general motion on the state of the representation. His Right Hon. Friend appeared to have been particularly struck with the quotation so often repeated— - Simul alba nautis " refulsit, " Defluit saris agitatus humor; " Concidunt venti, fugiuntque nukes, " Et minax (good sic voluere) ponto " Unda recumbit." And he applied that splendid passage, with which Mr. Burke had illustrated the passing of the Welch Acts, where a new kind of representation was conferred upon general principles, to one where the change was to he expressly foundrd upon specific delinquency. So that, he repeated, his Right Hon. Friend stood committed for the wider range of reform, at the moment when he thought he was merely enforcing th e li m it e d one . H e h a d like wise called to his aid arguments deduced from what be termed the smothered volcano of Ireland ; and asked, do you believe that the settlement of the Catholic question will, without the aid of poor laws, tranquillize the country ? I am not, (continued Mr. Peel,) called upon now to say whether it will or not. I see no direct connexion with the one and the other, and I cannot help thinking that he seeks an unfair advantage, in endeavouring to ga i n assistance against us, and from the settlement of a question in which we cordially acted with him. With respect to what his Right Hon. Friend had said on the subject of Parliamentary reform, he could only say tkat he had always, as touch and as readily as his Right Hon. Friend, acted upon the principle of disfranchisement, when a clear case of delinquency hart been proved against any borough. Ile had dealt with Penryn, for example, on that principle, and voted fir the transfer of its fran chise. To be sure there were particular circumstances in the case of Penryn to warrant the vote had been given re specting it by his Right Hon. Friend and the other mem bers of the Government.—(Hear, hear.)—He did not understand the nature of the cheer, but he contended that a large majority of that House had voted for the transfer of the franchise to Manchester, his Right Hon. Friend, nevertheless, agreeing with Lis colleagues in the principle that the transfer should be made to the adjoining hundred. He saw no ground of exception to that principle in favour of East Retford, and therefore could nut adopt the course Lis Right lion. Friend was at present pursuing. 'With re spect to the principle of voting for the transfer of the franchise of delinquent boroughs to the large unrepre sented towns, he need not say he was not opposed to it, having, as he had state.l, voted with his Right Hon. Friend for the Noble Lord's (J. Russell's) motion to trans fer the Penryn franchise to Manchester. In conclusion, the Right Hon. Ge n tl eman repeated, that h e saw no new ground for then voting differently from hie. vote of heat Session with respect to the transfer of the East rtetford franchise, and therefore would support the proposition of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Hertfordshire (Mr. N. Calvert), for transferring it to the adjoining hunched of Bassetlaw. Lord J. RUSSELL, in a low tone of voice, was on destood to say that 'it was his intention next Session to propose a general measure fir franchising the largest popu lous manufacturing towns, without reference to the elec tion-corruptions of boroughs. Mr. BROUGHAM had been prevented by illness or ac cident from expressing his sentiments on the question be fore the House on former occasions ; be therefore would do so briefly then. He thought the case of delinquency against East Retford had been clearly proved, and there fore could not hesitate to rote for the transfer of its fran chise to one of the large populous towns which were at present without representatives. It could not be said in doing so that the agricultural interest would be thereby lessened, for East Retford had been equally open to com mercial as to agricultural purchasers, the former being equally ready to advance 40 good and solid reasons to each elector for his vote with the landed gentlemen, and the electors equally willing to adopt them. The change of hands—he used the the term " hands" literally, without any figurative meaning, when speaking of the corrupt electors of East Retford—was a matter of indifference to the good electors of that borough, who were equally im partial whether their representatives belonged to the agricultural or the manufacturing classes of the commu nity, provided t'ley were equally liberal with their forty golden arguments. Indeed, be believed it so hap pened that the representatives were chiefly commer cial gentlemen—perhaps on account of the manufacturing importance of the county of Notts in train oil—(a laugh), for he never heat(' of any other manufacture in it.— [lt was here intimated to the Hon. and Learned Gentle man that there were five or six species of manufacture in the county of Nottingham.l The very fewness, and the earnest endeavour to prove the existence of those five or six manufactures, bore him out when he asserted that though Norwich ;night have its crape representative, and other manufacturing towns theirs, the large manufacturing towns of Yorkshire, Warwickshire, and Lancashire, were actually unrepresented in that House. Before he had had the honour to a seat in that House, he and another Hon. and Learned Gent, had been at its bar professionally, to all in tents and purposes, the representatives of Birmingham ; but this representation was but temporary. With respect to the divisions that bed taken place on former occasions on the present question, be saw not how they could affect the rotes of Hon. Members on that evening ; for though it was true that the proposition of transferring the franchise to Manchester had been in one instance negatived by a majority of 36, and in another by a majority of 18, and the motion for transferring it to the adjoining hundred of Bassetlaw carried by a majority of 90, still it was well known that those divisions were—owing to causes which he would not then take it upon him to specify —upon any thing rather than the simple question on its own merits, awl free from the influence of divisions in the Government on certain great questions, as to whether East Retford should or should not be disfranchised, and whether the right of representation in that House should or should not be trans ferred to the town of Birmingham, or to the hundred of Bassetlaw.—(Hear, hear.)—The present vote, then, he contended, would be given on very different grounds, and he trusted would be in favour of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Tennyson's) motion. Indeed lie was confident it would, and that in the event of the Hon. Member for Hertford shire pressing his motion to a divisifin, he (Mr. Brougham) would be found in a large majority against him. He was then more confident in his hopes that the franchise would be transferred to a large town, because the principle had been acted upon in four similar cases, twice in the case of Penryn by that House, once Lefore in the case of East Retford, also by that House, and once in the case of Grampounil, by both Houses of Parliament. With respect to the question of Parliamentary Reform, he begged leave to say that lie was friendly to every moderate, safe, and prudent plan of reformation in our present sys tem ; and that if any such plan was more feasible, and moderate, and useful than another, it was that inserted in the motion before the House, and in the scheme of the Right Hon. Member for Liverpool, though he had declared himself an opponent of Reform_namely, to transfer the franchise of corrupt boroughs like Penryn and East Ret ford, to the large, wealthy, populous manufacturing towns of Sheffield, Birmingham, and Manchester, arid perhaps he (Mr. Brougham) would add, to the City of Edinburgh. The House then divided— For Mr. Tennyson's motion lll Against it Majority —B6 On our re-admisssion to the gallery we found Lord J. RUSSELL. in possession of the Chair, moving an amend ment (as we understood) to Mr. N. CAb/ERT'S motion for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent bribery and corrup • tion in the borough of East Retford. The amendment proposed by the Noble Lord was, that the House should pass to the other orders of the day. Mr. FANE observed, that he had intended to bring on his promised motion, which had reference to nearly the same object—namely, moving for a new writ for the borough of Eest Retford; but if the House were disposed to entertain the motion of the Hon. Member for Hertford shire in preference to his own, he should submit without repining. Mr. N. CALVERT had hoped the House and the No ble Lord would have permitted him to introduce his Bill, and let it be read a first time ; and had that been the case, he was prepared to fix the second reading for Friday. se'nnight. If the House wished the motion should be post poned, lie would make no opposition to its wish.—(Cries of " Go on, go on.") Mr. H. GURNEY thought the motion of his Hon. Friend would render superfluous and supersede the neces sity of the motion of the lion. Member (Mr. Fane) for a new writ. Mr. PEEL was not disposed to see the time of the House wasted fruitlessly, after the strong majority which had been already arrayed against the adjournment. If, therefore, the Noble Lord was resolved to divide the House by pressing his opposition to this fresh proposition respecting the borough of East Retford, it would be far better to submit to that postponement of the motion which he thought might, very consistently with the.usages of the House, have been dispensed with. Lord J. RUSSELL said, he felt that the case of this borough would, with more propriety, be comprehended in and decided by the result of the more extended motion on the subject of reform generally in the representation, which would be so soon under their discussion. Under this impression he confessed he felt no part of his original objections to the motion removed. Mr. N. CALVERT filially consented to postpone his motion, and the discussion of it was accordingly adjourned until Monday next. Sir A. GRANT brought up the Report of the Com mittee on the Disembodied Militia Estimates. The Reso lutions Were agreed to. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past Twelve. STOCKHOLM, APRIL 17.—1 n the night of the 18th of March, half an hour after midnight, very smart shocks of an earthquake were felt in various parts of Sweden, in the direction of N.W. and S.E. accompanied with a noise in the air as in a hail storm. The Commissioners for the Inspecting of Charities, under Mr. BROUGHAM'S Act, passed in 1820, have been at the Angel Inn, Bury, since Monday, the 13th April, where they have summoned before them all the Trustees of Charities, Overseers, Churchwardens, &c., in that town, and in all the parishes within ten miles. It is said that gifts have been discovered, which for years have never been applied, as directed by the donors; and in some cases even books are missing, supposed to have been destroyed.—Esges Herald. It is stated that a letter has been received by a Nobleman in the north of Ireland from an illustrious Statesman, in which, after alluding to Ireland, the writer says, " I am determined the problem shall be solved— why Ireland, with all her resources, should remain for centuries a weight, instead of a support, upon the re sources of the empire." The same noble individual is re ported to have said, more than two months ago_" Wait," said he, " until the Catholic question is carried, and you will then hear of something wlsiell will surprise you much more." This, from a variety of circumstances, is sup po.ed to have referred to the Church question, which is now so much spoken of.—Dsiblin Evening Post. On the 2311 ult. a party of farmers having met at the King's Arms Inn, St. Colomb, after enjoying a cheerful glass, seine of the party proposed that 21bs. of beef steaks should be provided for each person presenr, and he who took most time in dispatching his portion should pay for the whole. One of the company who had already dined, offered to eat 3:1165. with bread, &c. in half an hour, for a wager. The bet w as spee dil y ma d e; t h e o'r ' steaks l were procured, and when they were half dres , ed the glutton set to, and actually cleared the whole, with two p en ny, loaves, a pint of beer, and a glass of brandy in 29 minutes; after which he danced a hornpipe, to the asto nishment of the spectators,--- West Briton. PRICES OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOC/It• ... Bank Stock - South Sea Stock ......... ...* ...., 3 per Cent. Red. 86 % 1X, Old Annuities ................•. , 3 per Cent. Cons. 87 1 4% 1 4 New Ditto .. . ................. .1%...... :-11,i per Cent. 9.5a,i, Ex. Bills, XI,OOO 2d. 6 9 A T, p r u - a , Ditto Red. 95 1 454, Ditto .500 2d. a n D l* 4 per Cent. 102%% Ditto Small 2,d. •-• ‘^' L i n Ditto, P , 26 102 Ditto Commercial . ........ rjr., Bank L. Ann. India StrTk 220 India for Account . ..... t .. ~,57)4 ~87* 51 pm. iCons. for Acct., Ditto Br,nds - . PRICES OF FOREIGN FUNDS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOO.,, Austrian Bonds — Neapolitan ................. .. ..... Brazilian Bonds 53,2% 3 Peruvian Bonds ............. ."; . 4JVE Buenos Ayres Bonds —Prussian,—Dit —Ditto, Portuguese 80nd5.....'....... ..., Chilian Bonds Colombian Bonds Ditto, 1824 Danih —.— Spanish, 1821 ..................... ..... Greek Bonds —182 a ... ....... ....c .... , , Ditto, 1825 — French Rentes, 5 p c. -"'" New01.d....................................... Exchange ...... „we.. Gm u e a x t i i e - m a Bonds ........ : 3 per cent....... Ditto, 1525 — Exchange ...... PRICES or SHARES THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCE• e P a id . ref Sb 3r 24 Anglo Mex. Mir.. Co. (iss. at 5/. pm.) £lOO 4 4 Columbian Mining Co. (iss. at 5/. pm.) £3O 8 , ,,4 8 United Alex. Min. Co. (iss. at 21. pm.) £393 COURSE OF EXCHANGE YESTERDAY. 4% Amsterdam C.F 12 4 Leghorn Ditto, at sight 12 G enoa 25 65 Rotterdam 2 U 12 4 Venice _ _ Antwerp 12 4 Ilambu.gh M.B. 13 141 Al toi.a l3 14} Paris, 3 clays' sight 25 60 1)ilto 2 U. 25 85 Bordoaux 9 5 90 Eerliu — Praia fart an Maine, Ex. M 152 Petersburgh, ruble, 3 Us. 10 0 Vienna, alb 'dye ii. 2 M 10 6 Malta ...-;%., i 391 Palermo Lisbon per Z. 45 % 454 Oporto Ito Janeiro ............ Bahia Ilteno4 Ayres -71 Dublin, 21 days' sight ' 1 Cork Trieste eito 10 6 Madrid 3 611 Cadiz. '37 Gilboa Barcelona 3t3q Seville 36% Gibralt,r 49% BULLION, PER OR. A Portugal Gold, co in... 0 0 Foreign Gold, ' in bars 3 11 New D0ub100n5......... 0 0 new Dollars ....... 0 I ,Silver, bare, st.andarci FOREIGN EXCHANGES ON LONDON. AMSTERDAM, MAY 1.-12.0 5-10.—Two months, 11. 95. HAMBURGII MAY 1.-13. 10%.—Two months, 13. 9}i• LElrsic, APRIL Y7.—Three months, 6. 141 A. BERLIN, APRIL 28.—Three months, 6. 239'. ST. PE rERSBURGH, APRIL 17.—Three months, 10 11.3% CHRISTIANIA, APRIL 15.—Three months, 6. 10 HIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO—MORROW. r Morning ...43 minutes after 4. I Evening ... 4minutes After 0: Etie T LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MAY 6, 1529• The Allgemeine Zeitung of the . 9th April bo g been received this morning. Tl:e note of prepara tion for the war daily sounds louder and brisk er. The Russians are congregating their forces on the Danube, and collecting their heavy artillery tosvard9 Silistria and Giurgevo, which they will endeavour to capture as quickly as possible, as their possessicin with Rudshuck, on the opposite side of the riv er ' would secure - the safety and accelerate the fut ure progress of the invaders in their advance into Bulgaria, and even Roumelia. Meantime the 'forks are not idle ; but it cannot be denied that the Pi' sians have acquired more knowledge as well es advantage in the last campaign than the Turk s : and that the Russians will not fail turn a ll the:e to account in the present campaign. T he possession of Varna is of the last importance' as affording them a ready access to their supplies Wit h ' out the labour and risk of carriage overland throug h ' the swamps on either side of the Danube. Varna is ill fact a halfway house to Constantinople, securing the ready advance of the Russians to: the foot of the Balkan, for the Turks do not appear to possess an army sufficiently strong to oppose their progress' in the open field. However, there can be littl e ' doubt, from the desperate bravery exhibited by the • Turks during the last campaign, that they will 0* the Russians a very unwelcome reception. • While General DIEBITSCII is preparing to strike , a decisive blow on land, Admiral HEYDEN is vowing to detach the Pacha of EGYPT from the service of the Porte in the Mediterranean. He has already captured two vessels of war belonging to the PACIIA, and hints that if MEIIEMET ALI Will abstain from helping the Turks, the ships will be res tore d to him by the Emperor of RUSSIA. It is certairill, very dexterous policy on the part of the Admiral to, weaken the Porte by causing the defection of the Paella of EGYPT, but we do not think lie Will succeed : The Russian army is concentrating about Rudsehu ksnci Silistria, and every thing announces that a serious s trat a on those two fortresses is intended. The most vigorou be use of the . very numerous artillery, in particular , may , expected. New hospitals continue to be g ot in order :. though the buildings already employed as suc h are alTos..._, free from sick, and could contain a grea t number. L a wee k several Boyards at Bucharest quitted their palaces, sr the military administration took possession of them for fir hospitals. Large magazines for military stores of all king' are forming out of the city, in order to make good itnote; diately wh,tcver may be deficient in the army. The gran(' head-quai ters are expected at Bucharest. There Lave al ready been several engagements near Ghiurgevo. Edna, Marten I.—On the 20th February a han d; s on:e new Egyptian corvette, pierced for 22 guns , Wa g brought in here, a prize to the Russian men-of-wa r , 0 11 11 Candia. Five days before they had captured a brig %vi t a provisions for Candia, and sent it to Poros. They ha d sent to the same place a merchantman, which had on hoa r several Turkish families, intending to go from Rhodes to Candia, but this was immediately set at liberty by . 44- `, l ‘ . mire! Ileyden's orders, who, on the 22d FebruarYs ad dressed the following letter to Admiral Malcolm " On board the Azoff, Feb. 10, (22), 1829 , " The positive information I had received from Smyro e ' Constantinople, and Alexandria, of the object of the arnt° c i meats making at the latter port, have obliged me to se° some ships of war to cruise between Candia and Rbode e i in order to oppose any hostile movement on the part ° Mehetned Ali. My . cruiseks having taken an EgyPti ° frigate and brig in those seas, I immediately sent (of which I enclose a copy) to the Paella of Egypt , , 3 1 :1 flatter myself that its contents, and the spirit of conc..-- tion which characterises my proceedings w ill make t he a lette,rl Pacha sensible of his true interest, and enable m e to Prr vent disagreeable collisions. I have the honour, Stc• (Signed) " HEYDE/ 4? " On board the Azoff, Feb. 10, (22), / 829. h e " Your Highness—Long before the departure of Egyptian troops from the Morea, I had frequent oe. casions to prove to your Highness the amiable ne w timents of my Sovereign,' the Emperor of Russia, t °*. wards your Highness, and bow much I endeavoured t° reconcile my duties with the regard due to your si tus' all th e tion and character. It is unnecessary to allege facts that prove this. It will merely put your Niel ness in mind of the zeal with which, a few months ago , cheerfully gave safe conduct to the Egyptian ships in w e Archipelago. His Majesty afterwards gave another pr °° i of the generous sentiments that animate him, by restoriog to liberty, after the taking of Yarns, two Beys, your r tions, allowing them to return to Egypt with rich preseot e * I regret to say, that your Highness appears not to have sect' this moderation in its true light. A proof of ibis is the sending of M. Ptzzorei from Alexandria, thoogr you had formerly authorised him to remain there. 11 ",, e1 hostile measure was accompanied by others still 0.°7, hostile to Russia ; considerable armaments were lat el y '4 prepared at Alexandria against that Power, and I find , 4 1 , impossible to be an indifferent spectator of armament" evidently intended against the forces of the Emperor col Sovere;gri, and I am ob!iged to secure myself against eventlf the responsibility of which would fall on me, if, n t ' t ; withstanding the iositive inforniation I have received .° the real object of your Highness's armaments, I persisted disregard to them, which might be detrimental w the, land and naval forces of Russia. Thus circumstan c e ! hive obliged me to order the ships of war under I °/ conimand to take possession of the Egyptian ships of Wi r i which may have left, or shall hereafter leave, the P ore ii ° ,; Alesandrii. I must regret to h a v e to inform your B i g r „ 'less than an k_ptian cot vette and brig have in e°° •