The Sun. — London, England, 1860-05-12 00:00:00

g i ven to Captain Grant for the great services he had rendered in improving and economising the system. He conten fled that the gallant captain was entitled to the gratitude r snd the sut,stantial proof of the approval of his services by the country. That officer had been requested by the Russian s, ad other Governments to supply them with his inventio n. Mr. CAVE also advocated the claims of the gallant officer. HARBOURS OF REFUGE. Mr. LINDSAY asked the President of the Board of Trade when her Majesty's Government intended to intro duce measuros to carry into effect the recommendations of the Harbours of Refuge Commission. The hon. member having adverted to the great loss of life and property which had taken place during the past year, said that a com mittee had been appointed to inquire into the best means for the prevention of such losses in future. That committee were unanimously of opinion that the best means to be adopted was the establishment of harbours of refuge on the coasts of Scotland, England, and Wales. (Hear, hear.) That committee recommended the appointment of a royal commission to ascertain the most eligible site for these harbours. He was a member of,that commission, and they had endeavoured to carry out their duties. They recommended that £2,360,000 should be expended on the construction of these harbours of refuge. He thought it was a waste of time to appoint commissions if they did not act on their suggestions, and he considered that if the money required could not be advanced, there should be loans towards carrying out the construction of harbours of refuge. MORTAR VESSELS AND BOATS. Mr. W. EWART asked the Secretary to the Admiralty what were the measures adopted for subjecting to 'a strict system of inspection, while they are being built, gunboats and other vessels, built on contract for the Government ? Sir J. PAKINGTON rose for the purpose of asking the Secretary to the Admiralty what was the real extent of the injury by decay which had been discovered in her Majesty's mortar vessels and gunboats • whether it was true that im proper workmanship and fastenings had also been discovered; and what steps the Board of Admiralty had taken or in tended to take in consequence of the present state of those vessels. The right hon. baronet said that before he put these questions he should express a hope that the right hon. gentleman the President of the Board of Trade would give a satisfactory answer to the appeal which had been addressed to him by the hon. member for Sunderland on the subject of the construction of harbours of refuge. He coincided in every word that had fallen from his friend with respect to the immense importance for the protection of life and pro perty, of establishing better harbours of refuge than those we at present possessed along our coast; and he trusted that no considerations of economy would deter her Majesty's Go vernment from carrying out the recommendations of the commissioners in that matter. He should also say that he hoped his noble friend the Secretary to the Admiralty would bo able to offer to the house a satisfactory explanation with reference to the position of medical officers in the navy. He had upon a former occasion mentioned that a statement had reached him, to the effect that an assistant-surgeon had been unable to obtain a cabin on board the Queen, although cabins had been found in that vessel for the head-master and other inferior officers. His noble friend had told him that there was ne truth in that statement ; but he (Sir J. Pakington) had still some reason to doubt whether his noble friend himself might not have been misinformed upon that subject. He would next proceed to put to his noble friend the questions of which he had given notice with re spect to our gunboats and mortar vessels. For several week■ past the public journals have been daily full of statements with regard to the decay of those vessels ; and not only that but complaints had been repeatedly made with respect to the coraduet of the contractors who had undertaken the building of that portion of our naval force. He hoped his noble friend would consider that the best course for him to take in that matter would be to tell the truth. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He did not, of course, mean to imply any doubt of the veracity of his noble friend, but he trusted that his noble friend would candidly lay before the house the whole of the facts with regard to the state of those vessels, and that he would, at the same time, in form them whether there was any fair ground for casting any serious imputation on the contractors. (Hear, hear.) His (Sir J. Pakington's) attention :had been called to the state of those gunboats in the year ISM, and he had felt it his duty to subject to an inspection the boats hauled up on the slips at Haslar. It was then found that a certain amount of the elm planking had decayed, but the decay did not appear to have extended any further. The Admiralty had given orders to have that defect removed, and they had every reason to suppose that those vessels had been placed in a sound condition. But they were now told that instead of having merely a few decayed elm planks, the whole frame work of those vessels was rotten, and within the last few days it had been stated in the newspapers that four of her Ma jesty's mortar vessels had been recently examined and found so thoroughly rotten that the Admiralty had no choice but to break them up. That was not, however, the worst part of the case, They were informed through the same chan nels that the workmanship of these vessels was very de fective ; and he was sorry to have to add that there were charges of what must be called dishonest work—charges to the effect that the bolting of the vessels had been such that they could not go to seawith safety. These were most serious statements, and the time had come when they ought to know what were the real facts of the case. Ho had not, as far as he was at present informed, the slightest inten tion of imputing any blame to the Board of Admiralty of the period when the vessels had been built ; nor, indeed, had he any information on which he could cast any serious imputation on these contractors. Great allowance must be made for the haste with which those vessels had necessarily been constructed. The con tracts had been taken up by houses of undoubted reputa • tion, and there appeared to have been no suspicion at the time that they had not been faithfully carried out. But the statement which had recently been made deeply affected the public mind, and had an important bearing upon the ques tion how far they could resort to the contract system in the building of ships for the royal navy without endangering the public interest. Under these circumstances it was only fair to the contractors in that case that the whole truth should be made•known. He hoped, therefore, that his noble friend would tell them fairly and fully what was the real condition of those vessels; whether it was true that they showed signs of improper workmanship, and what steps the Admiralty had already taken or were prepared to take in consequence of any discoveries they might have made. Mr. B. OSBORNE said he hoped the noble lord would also inform the house whether any officer connected with her 3lajesty's dockyards had superintended the construction of those vessels, and had given any opinion with respect to their efficiency. Lord C. PAGET said—l will follow the advice of my right hon. friend opposite, and I will state the truth, the whole truth, and nothing_ but the truth—(a laugh)—with regard to these gunboats, as far as it is known to us at the Admiralty. ( - Hear, hear.) The first duty I have to discharge upon this occasion is to allay the anxiety which has been caused by the apprehension that the whole of the gunboats now in the royal navy are rotten and unfit for service. Up to the present time we have discovered that a certain number have been More or less decayed, and measures either have • been taken or are being taken for their repair. I will state the number of thoso which have been repaired, but I am not at present able to give the hous©a correct estimate of the ex tent-of the repairs, because the accounts have not yet been sent in. The noble lord the member for Cockermouth (Lord Naas) has, however,' moved for a return which will show the expense of building each of these contract gunboats, and the expense of repairing them, which will give a fair idea of the decay that has taken place in them. It mus t be re ' membered that when shipbuilders were wanted to enter into contracts for the construction of these gunboats and mortar. vessels, the country was very anxious that they should be ready for the campaign which was to open is the ensuing spring; and it is only fair to the contractors that I should state that they themselves 'cordially and distinctly informed the Admiralty that they had no seasoned timber on hand, and that no seasoned timber could then be procured. I have myself seen a letter addressed to one of them, in which the Admiralty, after they had learnt from him that he had no seasoned timber, desired him to go on building with that which he had, so that, as regards the timber, I am bound to observe that, under the peculiar circumstances of the case, there is a good deal to be said on behalf of the contractors. (Hear) But when we come to the - question of shortness of bolts, I mast say that that is a fraud of a horrible nature, inasmuch as itis manifest that a vessel in such a condition going to sea and meeting with bad Weather might go to the bottom with all her crew. (Hear.) The house will easily understand, therefore, that the Admiralty make a great dis tinction between the two point—(hear) —and I have to state that we are now taking legal advice for the purpose of ascertaininisvhither it would be desirable that we should take further proceedings in respect to this case, of defective bolting. I will now p rocee d t o inform the house what is the number of boats that have been rep - aired, and what is their present state. Besides a great number of those boats which are now on foreign service, there are in the yards 23 that were found in a partial state of decay, and that have since been completely repaired ; and we have now six boats in hand. There remain to be - examined 16 of those hauled up in Hasler slip, and I can make no statement with respect to their pre sent condition. There are 40 in the steam reserve. We hay e no reason to suppose that those 40 which are afloat show any signs of decay ; but I cannot positively state to the house whether or not they will require any repairs. I do not think that is a matter which need alarm the public, any more than the condition of the 16 which have not yet been examined in Hasler slip, but which may be found defective. With regard; however, to those that are afloat, I am rather more hopeful that they will not require such extensive re- pairs as, some persons seem to suppose. With regard to the mortar vessels, undoubtedly those which have been examined have been found extremely defective. Two of those at Chatham have been broken up, in consequent, of their timber and planks having been found one mass of de cay. But with regard to two others which I find it stated in the newspapers to-day are in a similar condition, we haiv not yet received any report at the Admiralty. I shouid slate that we have found some defects in the government-builf boats, and 11 of them have alio had to undergo considerable repairs. Bnt the only boats at Hasler slip that have not yet been examined are the 16 I have already named. All the rest h ave been examined or are afloat, and I think we May assume that they are not in so very defective a condition as some per sons appoar to believe. I now wish to say afew words with re spect to the question of inspection. Undoubtedly it is advis able there should be a very careful inspection by Admiralty officers of all vessels that are being built by co 1 ract, and as a general rule the Admiralty always appoint a superior officer, who acts as an inspector in every yard where those vessels are being constructed. One officer, h3wever, acts as inspector in - a yard whatever may be the nen ber of vessels being built in it, and hence it is that it becomes desirable we should have as many vessels as possible constructed in one yard. We haVe at this moment 24 vessels being built by contract, and we have 17 inspectors attached to the yards in which the works are carried on; but as there are two or more vessels being constructed in some of the yards, there is none of them without a Government inspector. This question, of inspection, however, is one involved in some dif ficulty. Private ship-builders are only invited at some pe riod of public emergency to contract for the supply of vessels for the royal navy, and at such a time we are at full work in the royal dockyards, where men are employed during extra hours and on task jobs; and it then becomes a matter of great importance that in the dockyards themselves the most vigilant superintendence should be exercised. The conse quence is that it is more than usually difficult to find in spectors for overlooking the work done in private establish ments. We are at this moment, however, most careful that an efficient system of supervision should take place with re gard to all vessels being built by contract, and we have a variety of checks against abuses in that matter. We have not only an inspector in each yard, but we send down offi cers periodically to examine and report how the work is being performed ; and the vessels afterwards undergo a sur vey at the period when they are delivered up to the Admi ralty. We thus take every passible precaution against bad workmanship and bad material; and while I am upon that subject I will appeal to my hon. and gallant friend the mem ; ber for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) whether he does not think the Admiralty have shown great anxiety to arrive at the truth in those cases in which they had every reason to mu pect that fraud had been practised by contractors. The only other question I have to answer is thatwhich has been put to me by the hon. baronet the member for the city of Dublin with regard to the position of surgeons in the navy. I have to inform the hon. baronet that the surgeons are now about to receive a new uniform. The reasons for the delay which has taken place in that matter are that we have felt it necessary that all the non-executive officers in a ship should have a uniform distinct from that of the executive officers, and that we did not wish to decide what should be , the uniform of the first of these classes until the House of Commons should agree to grant the sums necessary for im proving their general condition. With regard to cabins, I cannot hold out the least hope that the Admiralty will give the surgeons the same kind of cabins that are given to cap tains of ships. We are anxious that proper cabins should be provided for surgeons, but we cannot place them in the a: me position in that case as captains. My right hon. friend opposite has stated that, according to theinformation which he received, a cabin was refused to an assistant-surgeon on board the Queen, while that accommodation was afforded to the head master and other inferior officers. Capt, Hillyard, however, who commanded that vessel, has informed me that he gave every cabin he could for the use of the assistant surgeons, and that at last one of them wished to turn him out of his own steward's berth, 413 it is called. (A laugh.) He re fused to accede to that demand, and that is the only founda tion for the story to which my right hon. friend has alluded. Sir J. PAKINGTON—Are we to understand that it is the intention of the Admiralty to prosecute contractors in all cases in which there are reasonable grounds for suspect ing them of fraud ? (Hear, hear.) Lord C. PAGET—We are taking legal opinions for the purpose of ascertaining how far we have the power of insti tuting such proceedings. Sir C. NAPIER said it appeared that the contractors in that case had fairly told the Government that they could not provide seasoned timber ; and although the Government had received that information, he thought they were per fectly right in the emergency which had by that time arisen to order that the gunboats should be constructed. But he should like to learn from the noble lord who were the contractors who had employed short bolts, and who had thus shown themselves ready to expose the lives of every man on board their ships to the most imminent peril. (Hear, hear.) He wished to know who it was that had re sorted to that fraud in building the Caroline gunboat. The name of such a man ought to be made known to the house, and he was sure they would all feel that no punishment could be half severe enough for him. (Hear, hear.) Con tractors who did their work in such a manner as to risk the lives of officers and men ought to be severely punished. (Hear, hear.) He wanted the noble lord the Secretary of the Admiralty to tell them the names of such contractors, that the house might express an opinion with regard to their conduct. (Hear.) Lord C. PAGET observed that there were inspectors. Sir C. NAPIER would like to know, then, who the in specters were, and who appointed them. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord had told them that 23 of the gunboats had been repaired. He did not say what was the extent of the repairs. He said he hoped the 16 gunboats on the Haslar slip were not so bad. Hoping was not sufficient in such a case. (Hear, hear.) Why had not the Admiralty sent some one to examine those gunboats one by one r Why had not the noble lord, who it had been understood was to do wonders at the Admiralty, ascertained the actual state of the boats at the Hasler slip? (Hear, hear.) He said he hoped the case was not so bad as had been supposed. Why, good God ! he surely ought to know the real state of the case. In his opinion, it would do a great deal of good to appoint one of the Lords of the Admiralty to see that the rest did their duty. (Laughter.) There ought at all events to be a complete system of inspection. The gun boats built by contractors were, it appeared, not the only ones that were defective. The Government had • built a certain number under their own officers in their own yards. Had those boats been satisfactorily constructed or not ? He believed that they had not. The nation ought not to be trifled with any longer. The contractors, whoever they might be, and the persons under whose directions the info- 1 rior gunboats built in the Government yards were con structed, ought to be brought to book. (Hear, hear.) Any inquiry would, he knew, be attended with great difficulties, but there certainly ought to be an inquiry, and it should be made as searching as possible. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that the hon. and gallant member for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) would adhere to his purpose of moving for a com mittee, and that the members of that committee would not be content with the statement of witness it, but go down and examine personally every one of the defective gun boats. Millions of money were being spent annually on the navy, and it was really disgraceful that the money should have been so misapplied. He was told that the stern of the Princess Royal—a vessel which his noble and gallant friend (Lord C. Paget) had himself commanded—on being recently taken to pieces, was found to have been originally con structed of very unsound timber. He had heard that in every case in which a sailing line-of-battle ship was now being converted into a steam line-of-battle ship, the timber used in the process of conversion was unseasoned. The Ad- miralty might tell them that they had no seasoned timber. Wby had they not ? (Hear.) His hon. friend the member for West Norfolk (Mr. Bentinck) pointed out to the hous e the other day that there was never a sufficient quantity of well-seasoned timber kept in the dockyards. Why was that? Surely it could not be said that Parliament did not vote enough money. He was far from finding fault with the Ad miralty for converting sailing into steam line-of-battle ships —on the contrary, he considered it absolutely necessary to do so. He entirely concurred in the remark made by the right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire a short time ago, that the position of foreign affairs at the present time was enough to make the boldest man quake and the wisest man tremble ; and though he (Sir C. Na pier) did not pretend to be one of the wisest men in th e country, he would take every opportunity of warning the Government not to neglect the navy. (Cheers.) ' Admiral DUNCOMBE had,u i nderstood the noble lord to say that some of the boats on the Hasler slip were more or less rotten. Lord C. PAGET said, what he had stated was that some of them required small repairs. Admiral DUNCOMBE could only say that, two years ago, in examining these vessels at Haslar for himself, he poked the end of his umbrella through the bottoms of some of them. (Laughter.) After that he could not very well understand how they could require only small repairs. The noble lord was probably aware that a great many naval officers and naval authorities were entirely opposed to the system of haulingup vessels on dry slips, and thus exposing them to atmospheric influence. Tho best thing in the world for ships was, he believed, to keep them afloat, and he should be glad to see a comparison instituted between those which were kept afloat and those which were laid up in reserve. No doubt the great source of decay in vessels Was their having been built originally of unsound timber; and to remedy this evil the royal arsenals should, he thought, keep a pod supply of timber, and furnish the builders with it as it was required. He had that day seen a statement that two of the mortar-boats at Chatham were so rotten that it was very doubtful indeed whether they ought to be repaired or not, and he would suggest to the Government that, if that turned out to be true, the Admi ralty, instead of remaining' liable to the expense of con stantly repairing them, should have them broken up at once. Mr. BENTINCK said the question raised by his hon. and'gallant friend (Sir C. Napier), whether or not line-of battle ships were being converted with unseasoned timber, was so important that he hoped that before the debate closed the Secretary of the Admiralty would give some ex planation. The very notion of such a thing was calculated to alarm the country. (Hear.) As regarded the gunboats at Haslar, whatever doubts might have existed with regard to them two years ago, there could be no doubt now that they were in an extremely rotten state, and that was, be believed, chiefly owing to their having been hauled up on a slip and kept dry instead of being allowed to' remain afloat. There was scarcely anybody em ployed in a shipbuilder's yard who could not have told them that that would be the result. Seventy gunboats were hant,.4 up" at an expense of 470,000, and he had no doubt that the sixteen remaining on the Hasler slip would be found to.be in the same state as the others. As to inspee lion, it was impossible for inspectors to know the real state of the case unless they were constantly present, and he be lieved-it' would be good economy to have a sufficient num . . ber of inspectors to watch tie whole process of building. PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS. Mr. HOWES called attention to the report of the com mission on the costs of prosecutions ; and asked the Secre tary of State for the Home Department, whether it was the intention of the Government to bring in a bill, or take any other steps, in relation to the subject of the said report? Sir G. C. LE WIS answered in the negative. INSPECTION OF VESSELS. Sir F. SMITH drew the attention of the noble lord (Lord C. Paget) to this subject, and he made different sug gestions in reference to the matter. LIABILITIES OF SHIPOWNERS IN CASES OF COLLISION AT SEA. Mr. DIGBY SEYMOUR called the attention of the house to the state of the law with regard to collisions at sea so far as foreign vessels were concerned ; and asked the President of the Board of Trade whether her Majesty's Go vernment were prepared to urge on the Governments of other countries the expediency of establishing some interna tional rule for assimilating the liability of shipowners in cases of collision at home and abroad ? Mr. M. GIBSON stated that communications had already passed between the Board of Trade and the Foreign-office in reference to the subject to which the hon. member had just called attention, with the view of bringing about some international arrangement. With regard to the question of the hon. member for Sunderland, as to whether the Govern ment intended to introduce any measure to carry into effect the recommendations of the Harbours of Refuge Commis sion, he admitted that the matter was of great importance. There could be no difference of opinion that it was desirable that harbours of refuge should exist, especially upon the eastern coast, where so many merchant vessels were in the constant habit of passing. The main question, however, was, where the money was to come from. The committee recommended that the expense should be defrayed by a toll levied upon the passing ships, but the opinion of the com missioners was that the expenditure should be defrayed by a parliamentary grant. He did not find upon instituting inquiries that either the shipowners or the insurers valued harbours of refuge sufficiently to be willing to take upon themselves any considerable portion of the charge, and with regard to a parliamentary grant, that was a question for the consideration of the Treasury. The question was now•un der consideration, and instructions had been given to pre pare a bill to carry out to a great extent the recommenda tions of the commission. It was not, however, intended to give effect to them, but the provisions of the bill would give facilities for making improvements without putting the parties in each case to the expense of a special act of Par liament. FRENCH FORTIFICATIONS AT ST. PIERRE. Mr.' HALIBURTON rose to call the attention of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to the state of the French fortifications at St. Pierre ; and to ask whether there would be any objection to lay upon the table of the house copies of all questions submitted . to the law officers of the Crown ? The hon. gentleman said there were two small islands on the northern shore of the Straits of Belle isle, lying between them and the Labrador coast, which having been taken from the French, had been restored upon conditions expressly stipulated in the tresty of 1763. Those conditions were that no building was to be erected, except for the purpose of the fishery; that not more than 50 soldiers were to be kept as police ; and, above all, that they were to erect no fortifications whatever. Fortifica tions, however, had been erected; and on a former occa sion he had asked the noble lord whether his attention had been called to the fact, and whether steps had been taken, either by application from the governor of Newfoundland or from the Government of this country to the Govern ment of France, to restrain the erection of those fortifica tions. The French flag was constantly flying, and many of the inhabitants of the island were Frenchmen, who, though well disposed to her Majesty, still felt that Franco was their fatherland. He did not complain so muchof the erection of buildings on the island as of armed batteries. The few English fishermen who had at times seen the bat teries, upon asking the meaning of them, were told, with a shrug of the shoulders, " Oh, that's the morning battery and this the evening battery, and they are placed there by the Emperor." In fact, no secret was made of the matter. Mr. E. JAMES asked the noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether it was the intention of the Government to proceed continuously with the Reform Bill, the consideration of which in committee had been postponed till the 4th of Julie, so as to afford to the other branch of the legislature the opportunity of passing into law that bill during the present session. Mr. GRIFFITH asked the noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he was now able to give any assurance that no French troops would be moved into the provinces of Chablais and Faucigny until the question of the dispositions to be adopted as to those neutralised pro vinces should be finally determined upon by diplomatic con sultation and agreement. The hon. gentleman said he did not wish to make any attack upon the noble lord, for he ac knowledged the difficulty of his position, and whoever had occupied that rosition would find himself surrounded by the same difficulties. Ho wished to point out that if France were allowed to occupy those provinces before any settlement took place she would not withdraw her troops afterwards, and therefore he desired the British Government to malie rt•oeQe,lin cva in tellizible at this stage of the matter. He thought it would be better for Switzerland that they should withdraw from the matter at once than that they should be drawn into a proceeding which would be delusive from the beginning. He would just remind the noble lord that M. Thouvenel had said in one of his despatches that, in case of the annexation of Savoy to France these provinces would be given to Switzerland, and he (Mr. Griffith) only expressed the feeling of this country in the matter when he asked the noble lord whether he could give any assurance that that arrangement would bo carried out, and that France would not be allowed to occupy those provinces. (Hear, hear.) THE REFORM BILL. Mr. SCULLY asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether her Majesty's government would agree to introduce provisions applicable to Ireland 'into the Repre sentation of the People Bill for England and Wales. The hon. member said a feeling was very general that there was no sincerity in the house on the subject of reform. It had been stated that if the house voted by ballot, there would only be found two votes in favour of the noble lord's bill—that of the noble 1 rd himself and his backer, the hon. member for Birmingham. (A laugh.) But who could say whether there would be even those two ? (Hear, hear.) For his own part if he were charged with insincerity he should plead guilty to the soft impeachment. He had long since suggested to the Government the desirableness of having but one reform bill. He would rather have bad laws in common with England than good laws which were peculiar to Ireland. That might sound like a paradox, but the explanation would be very intelligible. If they had bad laws in common with France, it was not likely that those bad laws would long be tolerated, but if they had good laws peculiar to Ireland, what security had they that they would not be converted into bad ones by a tyrannical majority ? If the house was insincere on the subject of the noble lord's bill, what were the people ? Why, he found from a paper put into his hand that morning that the total number of signatures which had been appended to petitions of any kind on the subject of reform was only 90,000. (Hear.) There were only 9,711 in favour of the noble lord's bill, and only two (signatures) in favour of the entire scheme of the Government. (Hear, hear.) He did not think that the people of Ireland (who, by the bye, had petitioned more numerously in favour of reform than the people of England) cared about the subject at all. • He had lately visited some of the most important towns in the sister country, and he found that the inhabitants were quite contented with their present representatives. Already too much time had been wasted on the noble lord's bill in comparison with the pro gressit had made, and before it passed— " Weary se'rnights nine times nine Would it dwindle, peak, and pine." (Laughter.) He might go oa with the quotation— " Tho' the bill might not be lost, Yet it should be tempest-tost." (Loud laughter and cheers.) All kinds of uncomplimentary epithets had been applied to the measure. It had been compared to a bread-pill, which would do neither good nor harm ; and the hon. member for Birmingham had ex pressed a hope that it would not prove to 'be like a Spanish repast, at which there was very little of meat, but a very great deal of table cloth. It appeared to him (Mr. Scully) that that exactly described the character of the noble lord's scheme. (Hear, hear.) In the meantime it had stopped the way of a great deal of very useful legislation. It was as if an express train was expected. Everything had been shunted out of the way ; but when at last it came it turned out to be a parliamentary of the slowest possible descrip tion. (Laughter and cheers.) Let the noble lord take i off the line altogether, and let the proper business of the session pursue its course. Let the noble lord, if he pleased, throw the blame on the , house, or let him throw it all on him—(loud laughter)—but if he adopted this course he would do the country a real service. (Hear, hear.) LORD J. RUSSELL IN REPLY. Lord J. RUSSELL—The hon. and learned gentleman op posite has already brought, forward the question of these fortifications on the Island of St. Pierre ; and I am very sorry that the answer which I then gave him does not ap pear to be satisfactory, because I have now little more to do than to state again what was the substance of that answer. In 1856—1 think in the month of January —an order was sent to the Governor of Newfoundland to make inquiries into the existence of fortifications on the Island of St. Pierre. In the month of April he made an answer to the 'question which was put to him; and he stated that there ware forti fications commanding the entrance of the harbour—that there was a battery mounting 8 24 -pounders, 2 42-pound guns commanding .the roadstead, and that there was ano ther battery at the entrance of the harbour commanding the south-eastern passage, in which there were 8 4 2-pounders. There was likewise a third battery and a barrack capable of holding 300 or 400 men. Upon this state of affairs the whole question was submitted to the law officers of the crown. It was not a single question as to any particular fortification, but it was a question whether the state of things described was conformable to the treaty or at va riance with it. The hon, and learned gentleman has stated very truly that from 1713 to 1814 there were various treaties which made provisions with regard to fortifications on St. Pierre; and the question was, whether there ought to be for tifications or no fortifications on that island ? The answer of the law °deers was, that these fortifications did not amount to an infraction of the various treaties which had been en tered into. The hon. and learned gentleman asks me to pro duce the question submitted to the law officers, and the an swer which they returned to it; but to do so would be quite against the rule which has always been adopted. In such cases it is not considered right to produce the opinion of the law officers of the crown; and believing, as I do, that that rule is formed upon very good reasons, I cannot comply with the hon. and learned gentleman's re quest. The matter cf the fisheries is quite a different one. The hon. and learned gentleman said, I daresay very truly, that there were 30,000 Frenchmen empbyed in these fishe ries. It is the practice of the French Government, and I believe it is also the practice of the Government of the United States, to give large bounties in order to promote those fisheries. It is part of their policy to elo so, rather, I believe, with a view to have a large number of seamen than with a view to any commercial profits that they might de rive from them. It is a totally separate question, and does not relate to treaties at all. It is a matter of trade policy, with respect to which it would not be convenient to enter at the present moment. Of course the hon. and learned gentle man can, if he thinks fit, fmd fault with the policy adopted some few years ago of discontinuing the system of bounties. The noble lord (Lord Lovaine) asked me a question about the fisheries convention with regard to Newfoundland. That is a subject of great importance, and the negotiations upon it have now lasted for a considerable time ; but I hope they are approaching their termination. Capt. Dunlop, the com missioner sent to Paris to complete them, has returned home. He has this day seen my noble friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and I am told that the explanation which he has given is satisfactory to the noble duke. The gallant captain is about to return to Paris, when he hopes to bring to a termination this negociation. The opinion of the commis sioner has been that it would not be necessary to have any new treaty, but that the treaty which already exists, with a proper interpretation and with proper measures taken to carry it into effect, would be sufficient. I will not, therefore, enter any further into that matter ; but I trust I shall soon be able to announce the completion of the negotiations. The hen, gentleman .opposite (Mr. Griffith) asked me, with re gard to Faucigny and Chablais, whether we have received any assurance that no French troops will be moved into those provinces. I have already stated that the French Go vernment refuse to enter into any engagement upon that point. They have said that they will not send any troops into the neutralised provinces of Savoy until the vote of the Sardinian Parliament has completely ceded those posses sions of Savoy ; but that after that time they will enter into no engagement on the subject. The hon. gentleman is so far right that I conceive any prospect of making a differ ence in the arrangements would be very much clouded by that fact—as well as the prospect of making any proposal that no French troops should occupy the country. I did not understand at first what the hon. gentleman proposed that we should do. I have not, as he states, given any as surance to this house which we were not able to fulfil. The hon. gentleman now says that we ought to withdraw from all further negotiations upon the subject. That is a matter certainly of very grave consideration, and I cannot at pre sent give any assurance to the house of that nature. The hon. and learned member for Marylebone asked me a ques tion upon a very different subject, with regard to the Re form Bill. I thirk he has shown some candour in admit ting that the Government have given some ground and ap pearance for the charge of insincerity that has been laid against them ; and I am equally ready to declare that his con duct shows considerable appearance that he is not favourable to this bill of reform. (A laugh.) I admit a degree of candour in that respect equal to his. But with regard to the period of the introduction of this bill I must say that the Ist March was not a very late date upon which to bring in a bill of this kind. Then the hon. and learned gentleman supposes that I have postponed this bill to the London Corporation Reform Bill and other measures. That is quite an erroneous supposition on his part, owing perhaps to his want of expe rience of the proceedings of the house. If I had said that instead of the Highways Bill, I proposed that the com mittee on the Reform Bill should be taken to-night—being a notice night—the members of this house would, I think, generally, and with reason, have said, that it was a matter of far too great importance to be left to the chance of being taken at nine or ten o'clock on a notice night- —(hear, hear) —and that it ought to be taken the first thing on some evening when the orders of the day will permit. But I may further add, that there have been measures of very great importance which have teen brought forward in this house —measures not only of great importance, but of great urgency, namely, those which the Chancellor of the Ex chequer has introduced for the financial requirements of the year. Nothing can be more inconvenient to the country than to have measures relating to customs and excise post poned and protracted for a long period, during which the business of the country is kept in suspense. Therefore, there seemed to me to be great reason for not bringing on the Reform Bill till after these important matters were dis posed of. (Hear, hear.) Accordingly, I have fixed the date of the committee on the 4th of Juno. I have men tioned that time on which to bring it on; of course whether it is to come on on that day or not must depend very much on what is the pleasure of the house, because on a notice day we cannot bring on the committee upon the bill without the consent of hon. members who may be willing to give it precedence. The hon. and learned member for Cork asked me whether wo would agree to introctuce eintlatt3 111 w uiu ...tiNI ua M 02.1 LW* L'lg land and Wales which would be applicable to Ireland. Really I s appose that when my right hon. friend (Mr. Cardwell) proceeded to defer the second reading of the Re form Bill for Ireland, he did not answer this question on the former evening; but then ho did not understand what was the course which the hon. and learned member for Cork recommended. But the hon. and learned member must see that in such a case it would be necessary to withdraw this bill and to bring in another. The chairman of committees would naturally object to introduce provisions applicable to Ireland into a bill for England and Wales. It is impossible therefore to propose such clauses as he recommends. Then we should find that questions with regard to the franchise having been decided upon this bill, we should have more discussion on the Irish bill, and thus we should discuss the same questions over and over. I will only add that those hon. members who do not seem to be favourable to the bill have only to take the course which is the direct coarse, and if they dislike the bill, to vote against it altogether. (Hear, hear.) What we have done is to bring in a bill, which we think ourselves, and which many hon. members of the house think, will be a useful measure. If, however, there are hon. members who think it a mi sc hi evous an d d angerous bill, let them throw it out an d t a k e t h e responsibility on themselves. But to call it at one time a very small bill, that there is nothing at all in it, and then at another time to say it is a dangerous and revolutionary measure, this is a course which is net very consistent, and not very useful. I will bring the bill forward at a time when I hope that many fears will have disappeared, and hon. members will then be able to say what they think should be the proper franchise, and what they think should be done. They will also be able to state what course they think should be adopted with regard to the redistribution of seats. The hon. and learned member for Marylebone has proposed to introduce a lodger franchise. That is a very fair fran chise, and I assure him that proposal will be carefully dis cussed by the Government with all the reasons that can be urged for and against the proposal. But whether they will adopt that franchise or not, I do hope the house will go seriously into a consideration of the question, and come to a conclusive decision upon it. Mr. JAMES wished to explain that he never said he thought the noble lord insincere ; his opinion was quite the reverse. What he said was the impression in the country was that the Government were not sincere. Mr. SCULLY protested against the term inconsistency being applied to his conduct. Lord J. RUSSELL said heby no means intended to refer to the hon. and learned gentleman. CAPTAIN GRANT'S APPARATUS. _ - - Mr. S. HERBERT said he very much regretted that he could not give a very satisfactory answer to the gallant of f icer opposite (Col. Lindsay), who had drawn the atten tion of .the house to the system of cooking proposed by Capt. Grant. He•should be extremely glad to do anything which would be agreeable to Capt. Grant ; but he felt bound to say, upon the question of a disbursement of the national finances, that it would be difficult, when inventions were multiplying so rapidly, to give a reward to him and not to others. T FIE SICILIAN INSURRECTION. Mr. GRANT DUFF, in rising, pursuant to notice, to ask the Solicitor •General whether his attention had been drawn to an advertisement which appeared in the Times of the 9th of May, announcing that a subscription had been opened in London in aid of the Sicilians, and whether per sons in this country who contributed to the fund whicli it was proposed to raise would render themselves liable to any legal process, said it had been suggested that if he asked this question he should be asked in return why the recruit ing which was going on in Ireland for the Government of the Pope was not put an end to. He supposed the reason to be that Government, knowing that other Governments were getting rid of the refuse of their gaols in that way, thought they would do the same. But the Sicilian insur rection was a very different affair. The Sicilians were fightin g in a good and holy cause, and he did not wish that that cause should be damaged by any illegality. It was not a matter that could be treated with contempt. If it were true that General Garibaldi had sailed for Sicily the matter assumed a serious aspect. If he bnco got into the island with reinforcements this would be the commencement of a very great struggle indeed. The towns on the coast might be under the power of the Neapolitan Governments so long as the Neapolitan navy could keep the seas, but much of the interior was of a character which made it difficult for regular troo➢s to act ; the towns were built on rocky eminences, and it would be easy for a handful of resolute men to defend them against any number of such troops as the Dina of Naples could bring against them. If the insurrection wore kept up, the attention of Europe would be drawn to this subscription. He did not think that the subscription would amount to such a sum as to be of any service to the Sicilians, but it might be considerable enough to attract the attention of Europe. If there were anything illegal in the subscription, ho thought it wise and proper that the Government should give warning that it was so. they should do this for two reasons ; first, because our position with ngard to Sicily was.a peculiar one. Not only France and Italy, but the whole of the continent sus pected that we haddesipis upot that country; and though it might be shown that an English occupation would con fer a great benefit on the island, yet in five or six years our rule would be intolerable there; and it was desirable that To - T nations should be disabused of the notion that we have any design upon it. Another reason why Govern ment should disavow all connivance with an illegal attempt to assist the Sicilians was, that the true and wise course for this country, as the upholder-of the constitutional in terest of Europe, was to strive that the principle of na tional boundaries should be respected, and that every na tion should settle its quarrels with its rulers in its own ter ritories. If we could only once prevent despotic powers interfering to put down the people, and make it a rule that neither a despot should interfere to support despo tism, nor a liberal Government to support a liberal Go vernment, we might be sure that before long the liberal party would be able completely to crush their 'oppressors. If he had made it perfectly clear that his object in putting the motion was a friendly one—and he wished the revolt every success, and that it would extend to the main land, and be successful there to the destruction of the present Go vernment of Naples—and if he had made it perfectly clear that the English Government should do nothing to support the insurrection, he had said enough, and he Would con clude by putting the question. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he hoped he should not be considered wanting in respect to the house if he con fined himself to a precise answer to the question, and de . dined to follow the hon. member into the observations in which he had thought proper to indulge. His attention had been called to the advertisement by the question itself which the hon. member had put. He had read the adver tisement. It solicited subscriptions in aid of the Sicilians, and requested that the money, which persons in this coun try might be disposed to subscribe, should be paid into the hands of certain persons living in this county y whose names were given, and the proposal was that this money should be transmitted to Genoa, and be there disposed of by a com mittee stated to be presided over by General Garibaldi. - Therefore, the question was whether the subscription of money by one of her Majesty's subjects in this country, by paying it into the hands of another person who was a foreigner living here, for the purposes and with the object that he had described, came within any rule of common law or within any statute law of this country. Now, it appeared to him that so long as that which was done was limited within the boundary of a mere subscription in this country as the advertisement limited it, no law of this country would be violated. The only statute which in any way bore on the matter was the Foreign Enlistment Act. That act prohibited two things, it prohibited the enlistment of soldiers, and it prohibited the fitting out of vessels of war for service under or against foreign goveramonts. As far s he was able to form an opinion, no one who thought pro per to put his hand in his pocket and take aut money to pay it to a person to send it to Genoa, to be there disposed of by General Garibaldi—he did not suppose that any person in the exercise of such benevolence, would violate either the common law or the statute law of this country. (Hear.) INDIA—RECALL OF SIR CHARLES TREVELYAN Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR said he rose to ask the Secre tary of State for India whether it was true that he had taken the decisive and important step of recalling Sir C. Trevelyan from the governorship of Madras ? He might be permitted to address to the house a few observations, show ing the importance of this step, as he was perfectly ac quainted with the Madras government as it was six or seven years ago, and he had stated to the house instances of mis government, of a most chaotic state of the country, and of most oppressive taxation amounting to 50 per cent. of the gross produce of the soil. He had now to show on the other hand that in that presidency, after a short reign of one year, by the personal influence of the governor, the popula tion was reconciled to the government it before hated, an equitable assessment had been carried opt, and contrary to the traditions of the old East India Company, land for the first time in India had been sold in fee simple to any person who chose to buy it. It 'was with astonish ment that he heard that the man who had done all this had been recalled. Mr. Wilson had proposed a budget in the Legislative Council of India. He proposed it openly, stating the financial diffloulties under which the Government of India laboured, and his plan for meeting them. He found' that there was an extremely large deficit, amounting to nine millions for this year and to six millions for the next, and he stated that he found it necessary to impose three new taxes ; ono of these was the tobacco tax, which had already caused three rebellions ; and the other two were a license tax and an income tax. The license tax, or maturpha tax, which was levied in the Madras presidency, was condemned by the Court of Directors in 1846, and was ordered to be n more levied ; but now, in 1860, it was still levied in that presi dency. He did not quarrel with Mr. Wilson for proposing these taxes if they were absolutely necessary - . When they were proposed Sir C. Trevelyan was on a tour of inspec tion in -his presidency. 'He immediately stopped the tour, and returned to Madras, and he penned that able minute, the publication of which was the cause of his recall. He thought when hon. members saw this minute they would say Sir Charles Trevelyan displayed a know ledge of the subject and of the country entitling him to be hoard before the Legislative Council before they put in execution any of these new schemes of taxation. He regretted very much to find that when they had a man of energy and determination as Governor of Madras, a man ..11 th. iajgriouo roarictions by which his predecessors were bound, and raised the people in the scale of comfort and happiness, the home government had thought proper to recal him, because he protested against a scheme which he believed to be impolitic. Sir C. WOOD said ho was not prepared by the notice of a simple question as to whether he had recalled Sir C. Tre velyan for a speech on tiubjects of such great importance, and therefore he should not attempt to follow the hon. gen tleman in his remarks. The recal of Sir C. Trevelyan was caused in no degree by the opinion which he expressed with regard to the Government scheme of taxation, but simply by the act of publishing, he must say most impro perly and most insubordinately, a most important minute. No one could have a greater regard than he had for that gentleman both on public and private grounds; but he thought that the house would agree with him that the cir cumstances of the case were such as fully to justify him in the course ho adopted. The house would remember that the Indian financial statement of last year showed a deficit of about £13,000,000, and that for the present year a deficit of £9,500,000. With a view of meeting this deficiency the Government last year proposed a license tax, which was very soon modified into a quasi income tax, to which was added a tax on tobacco. They invited the opinions of all the governors of India, including, of course, the Governor of Madras, with regard to those taxes. In the course of the autumn the Governor of Madras expressed his opinion broadly and distinctly against the imposition of those taxes, and said that in his judgment no additional taxation was necessary, because the expenditure might be reduced within the limits of the income. His hon. friend wanted to know why the Government did not do what Sir C. Trevelyan said. There was a wonderful difference between saying and doing. Before the financial measures of the Government were pre pared, it appeared that the military expenditure of Madras, which had been estimated in the preceding year at less than £3,000,000, reached, according to a report of the accountant of the Madras government, a sum considerably exceeding £4,000,000. Instead of the expenditure having been reduced it was exceeded by £1,600,000, and those who were respon sible for the finances of the country mud be guided by facts' rather than by statements. With a full knowledge of all the circumstances, in January last the Government deter mined upon the plan which had been announced to this country, which was introduced on the 18th February, in a very full and able statement by Mr. Wilson in the Council at Calcutta.: His hon. friend was mistaken in supposing the financial 'scheme propounded by Mr. Wilson was arrange(' in this country before Mr. Wilson went out to India; all that had been determined upon at that time was the intro duction of a paper currency, Mr. Wilson did not propose his financial scheme in India till he had travelled through the interior of the country as far as the Punjaub, and had communicated with all the chief authorities, and it was brought forward with the entire concurrence of the Gover nor-General and every member of Council after the fullest consideration. The scheme was introduced on February 18th, and transmitted to Madras. On March 4th an open telegram left Madras for Calcutta with the governor's opi nion. On the 9th March a confidential letter was sent to Madras, stating the views and reasons of the governors and the objections they felt to communicating by open telegram, On the giound that it was nit right that communications be tween one governor and another should be open to the public. On the 17th of March a letter from the Madras go vernment was addressed to tho central government at Cal. cutta, stating that they saw no objection to communications passing by open telegram. More than that, on the 21st of March a telegram was sent to Madras stating that the bi 1 would be introduced on the 24th of the same month, that it would then be referred to a committee, and that it could not be reported upon for five weeks. He mentioned these dates to show that at the time Sir C. Trevelyan's mi nute was made and published the government of Madras were in possession of the opinions of the government of India that it was not to the advantitge of the public service that the opinions of the subordinate governments should be given to the world, and also that there was ample time for remonstrance. On the 26th March the opinions of Sir C. Trevelyan and his council were recorded in the minutes, _ _ and his hen friend had read a part of Sir C. Trevelyan's minute. (" No," from - Mr. D. SEYMOUR.) Well, he had read apart of the minute of the members of the council, and he (Sir C. Wood) quite admitted that the minute of Sir C. Trevelyan was a most able and excellent document. (Cheers.) It was unquestionably a most forcible argument against the views contained in Mr Wilson's scheme, and had it been addressed from one side of the house to the - -- other, he did not know that a better answer to that scheme could have been made. (Hear.) But it was quite another question whether that was a document which ought to be published to the world. The document was sent to the Madras member of the Legislative Council at Calcutta, and if it had been given in the form of a speech from him in the council it would have been a remarkably good one ; but it was accompanied with a request that it should be then printed—that was, if the majority thought it right. But he did not hold that the Madras member of the Legislative Council was the mere delegate of the Madras government ; he was bound to exercise his judgment on all matters that came before him. This being the state of the case, witho u t th e k now l e d ge , w i th- out the concurrence, and he (Sir C. Wood) was justified in saying against the opinions of the other members of the council, the minute was published by Sir C. Trevelyan ; and to their surprise, the other members of the council saw his, minute and their minute in the public newspapers of Madras. It was at first supposed that the document might have got out of the office by some misconduct ernegligence of some clerk in the Council-office, and an inquiry was in stituted, but it was found that no such misfeasance had taken place. An application was then made to Sir C. Tref velyan's private secretary, who stated at once that they had been issued by him, and that ho had authority for it ; and by a minute recorded by Sir C. Trovelyan he, in the most gallant and hOneurable manner, to use the le; al phrase avowed and justificdlhe act. Sir C. T reve lya n stated in that minute, which would be laid before the house with other papers, " I take the earliest opportunity of stating that, act ing on my sole responsibility, I freely distributed copies of the minute to the members of the Government as to Mr. Wilson's financial statement, with the view to secure for them the utmost publicity." The supreme Government of India were in possession of the view's of the Government of Madras ; all the great taxes proposed by Mr. Wilson had formed the subject of correspondence between them and the supreme Government, and there was ample time for remon strance. if Sir C. Trevelyan desired to remonstrate, it was his duty to address his remonstrance to the central Govern ment of India, and with his views he would have been fully justified in so doing. Indeed it was his duty, holding those views, to place them before the Government of India for their consideration. But he went further than that, and he took a step which he must say, for a man holding such a position in any country—but especiallyin India—seemed to him altogether unjustifiable; he appealed to the public of India against the measures of the Indian Government. (Hear.) Sir C. Trevelyan said further in his minute, "The state of public opinion had to be collected in order to bear upon the Government, and I therefore accepted Mr. Wilson's challenge to public discussion, and disregarded his subse quent instructions." (Hear, hear.) Mr. Wilson thought it not desirable that the provincial Governments of India should be committed by public discussion to opposition. He thoUght it was a seemly position for Mr. Wilson to take, to obtain the opinion of the provincial governments, but it was not seemly that Sir C. , Trevelyan, as' the governor of a su bordinate dependency, should invite public discussion in opposition to the central government, and proclaim himself the head and leader of that opposition. (Hear, hear.) It was quite clear that the authority of any government could not be upheld and maintained if such a system of insubordina tion were tolerated. There had been misehief enough aris ing from insubordination in India not to allow it to extend farther. There had been a mutiny lu the away, nativo and European, and now there was a mutiny of ono governor against another—(hear)—and her Majesty's Government at home would have been wanting in their duty if they had de layed a moment taking notice of an act so insubordinate and so dangerous to the maintenance of our rule in India. (Hear, hear.) They might certainly have reprimanded Sir C. Trovelyan, but in that case they must have sent a repri mand in terms so severe that no man could have remained under it. But that would have been a shabby course, and he thought it was more just and more kind to Sir C. Trevelyan himself that they should take the responsibility on them selves of recalling him rather than to place him in a position in which he would have been driven in a corner, and had no alternative but to resign. (Hear.) He (Sir C. Wood) therefore did not hesitate for a moment to take the re sponsibility of bringing the subject before his colleagues in the Government, and by his advice it was determined that Sir C. Trevelyan should be recalled. In order that the autho rity of the supreme Government of India might be supported and maintained no other course was open. (Hear.) He thought the recall of Sir C. Trevelyan a great public loss, but it would have been a greater public danger if a public servant had been allowed to remain in effice after an act so subversive of all authority and so dangerous to the main tenance of our rule in India—so calculated to promote opposition, and even insurrection. (Hear, hear.) Those were the grounds on which the Government were prepared to justify the recall of Sir C. Trovelyan. He thought it was their duty to do so, and it was also their duty to allow no time to pass without providing a successor to Sir C. Tre velyan in the governorship of Madras, for the government of such a presidency was not one in which an interregnum could be safely permitted. It was true, therefore, that the last night's mail, which took out the recall . of Sir Charles Trevelyan, also took out the Commission. appointing Sir Henry Ward in his place. Sir Henry Ward had adminis tered the government of Ceylon with great success, and had largely improved the revenue, and he did not think they could have found in the whole Indian or colonial service a more fit person for the office. (Hear.) Mr. BRIGHT said the conclusion he had arrived at was that Sir C. Trevelyan believed the course about to be taken by the Government of Calcutta was full of danger to the peace of the country, and absolutely unnecessary to restore the balance in the finances of the empire. Under this impression he courageously wrote a minute in opposition to the views of the central authority at Calcutta. This was an unusual step, and contrary to the ordinary duty of subordinates; but he (Mr. Bright) held that Sir C. Trevelyan had, in his administration of the Go vernment of Madras, shown himself much more of a states man than those who had announced the new scheme of finance for India. He was not, however, atout to justify the indiscretion of Sir C. Trevelyan, nor to blame the Government for his recal, but he believed that his retire ment would be felt as a public calamity by the natives of the Madras presidency. He, might not have been a judi cious subordinate, but he had proved himself to be a wise governor. Sir S. NORTHCOTE expressed his regret that the sub jut should have been brought forward at a time when no papers had been furnished, and in the absence of Lord Stanley, who had appointed Sir Charles Trevelyan. Lord PALMERSTON said the Government had no option except to convey their censure of Sir Charles Treve lyan.'s conduct by immediately recalling him from his government. The course'which that gentleman ought to have adopted, if he found he could not agree in the policy recommended by the Government of India,' would have been to communicate with the Governor General, the Legislative Council, or the Secretary of State. Tho only explanation which could be offered for his conduct was, that being honestly and sincerely convinced of the correct ness of his views, he had voluntarily sacrificed his official position to accomplish that which he believed to be for the public" good. The act of insubordination which he had committed might have entailed consequences of the most disastrous character on our rule in India. They had strongly censured one act of Sir C. Trevelyan's public conduct, yet Sir Charles Trevelyan had merits too inherent in his character to be overclouded and overshadowed by one single act. He (Lord Palmerston) concurred w,th those who hoped that Sir Charles Trevelyan might in his future career be useful to the public service, and do honour to himself as well as be of advantage to his country. (Hear, hear.) THE - FORMS OF THE HOUSE. Mr. BOUVERIE said he rose to call the attention of the house to the manner in which the business was con dUcted. Last night the house, having gone into committee of was and means, passed a resolution imposing a license duty upon refreshment houses, and that resolution having been passed was, contrary to universal practice and prece dent, reported forthwith to the house without, as was usual, a day's delay. The house was aware that immediately a resolution was thus reported steps were, taken by the Re venue Department for levying the duties thereby imposed; so that by reporting the resolution forthwith no opportu nity was aff3rded to the house or to those members who happened not to be present at the time of the discussion to re-consider the matter and determine whether it was ex pedient that a tax of the kind should be imposed. (Hear, hear.) It was a matter of very great importance, and the respect they owed to the forms of the house should compel them on some future day to take some steps in regard to the proceedings, and perhaps to declare that the report in question should be null and void, so that it might ap pear on the journals of the house that the course that had been taken was not to be regarded as a precedent. Mr. DISRAELI said he considered the point to be one of the greatest public importance. It was not necessary for him to dilate upon the importance of theforms of the house, forms which had been invented by the experience of per sons for the welfare of the country—but there might at times be occasions when those forms might be insisted upon with too great attention, and be unnecessarily mult plied. There was, however, one point in respect to which no difference of opinion could exist. and that was, that when a question as regarded the imposition of taxes Was under the consideration of the house, the forms of the house should be strictly adhered to. In the/ case of committees of ways and means, there was a decided rule of the house, that the report upon resolutions passed in such committees should not be reported in the same day. All would agree that this was a most prudent course to pursue. He had intended to bring this matter himself before the house that evening, but he was prevented from doing so owing to the many in teresting matters that came before the house in the course of the evening. He, however, determined to have done so on Monday night. He would not at the same time hare been willing to censure the Government for an intentional de- parture from the practice of the house on this subject, but to have suggested such a step as would have prevented the course now complained of from being drawn into a preee dent. Mr. MASSEY said that if there had been any impro priety in the matter he had been primarily responsible for Mr. CARDWELL said he did not propose what should be done on a future occasion. The departure from the forms of the house which had taken place was to be regretted. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was of that opinion, and would make a statement on the subject to the house on Monday next. _ The SPEAKER said there was no doubt that a resolu tion should not be reported to the house the same day it was agreed to.. There was no doubt that this was the prac tice of the house, and that that should have the force of a rule. He had noticed it at the time on returning to the house, but no objection being raised, and understanding that it had met with the general concurrence of the house he had put the resolution. There, however, could be no doubt but that the course was irregular and should te cor rected._ (Hear, hear.) _ _ Mr, ESTCOURT hoped that something would be done irregularity such as th a t STUN agreed in th e p ropriety of some thing which had taken aee• nxta.rk that irregularity, an d t h ey would , e to adopt on M onday next. to prevent the reel memo of an use on its rising do adjourn till ENT OF THE H OUSE. consider Lord b e F i At n A h g p L e done joes ut ; Nu t ' F Io ICER.,S FOR WOUNDS . Monday The P motionEvsos PENSIONS them that sTO a the agreed Colonel NORTH moved an Address to her Maj es ty, p i t a .; , ing that ale would be graciously pleastld to reconsider the I N - arrant granting' pensions and allowance.' t© officers of the la VA forces limited tio wounds and injuries received in action —which was agree, l to. THAMES EIUBANKMENT. Sir J. ... -D AXTON moved the appointment of the select committee o n Thames Embankment to consist of the follow ing members :—Sir Joseph Paxton, Lord John Manners, Mr. Cowper, Sir John Pa'. ing ton, Mr. Alderman Cubitt, Sir Jobn Shelley, Mr. Stirling, Mr. Tite, Lord Robert Montagu, Mr. 1: Valter, Sir Morton Veto, Mr. Philips, Mr. Roupell, Mr. Yorke, and Mr. Beamish. Power to send for persoßs, papers,. and records; five to be the quorum. Agreecl to. WAYS AND MEANS. The honk: o then went into committee, and voted £9,500,000, which ;was necessary for the public service, and the votes for which had been already agreed to in com mittee of supply. _ FISiIERIA.'S(SCOTLAND) BILL. This bill was read a ti'lird time and passed. The house then adjourkled at half-past one o'clock. RAILWAY INTELLIG: TRAFFIC RETURNS FOR .TH/: Miles Opened 1860. 1859. Railways. Ballymena and Portrush Bedale and Leyburn . • • Belfast and Ballymena Belfast and Comity Down Birkd., Lane., & Ches. June Blyth - and Tyne Bristol t i,nd Exeter Caledonian Ch ea .sm o i y h.:Aadkwithlllold) Coekermouth & ; orkington i Cork and Bandon Cork, Blackrock, & pab:age• Deeside Dublin & Belfast JunetiOn Dublin and Drogheda Dub. & Wicklow( in. Kin gs t ) Dundalk and Enniskillen Dundee and Arbroath Dundee, Perth, & Aber. Jan East Anglian E. Co untie s,Nrik., &E. Union East Kent E.Lancashire(in.Blackburn) Edinburgh and G lasgow Edinburgh, Perth,& Dundee Forth & Clyde Junction Furness Glasgow & South-Western Great Northern Great North of Scotland itt.Southn. & Westn.(lrind ) Great Western Hull and Holderness inverness & Aberdeen June Irish South-Eastern Killarney Junction Lancaster and Carlisle (in Kendal and Windermere Lane. & Yrks.(in.Blackbun) Limerick and Foynes Llanelly London & North-Western London and Blackwall London & South-Western Loud. Brighton, t S. Coast. L'derry and Enniskillen,— Lond., Tilbury, & Southend. Man.,Sheffield, & Lincolnsh. Manch. S.Jun.& Altrincham, Maryport and Carlisle Midland Midland Gt.Westn. of Irind. Monkland Monmouthsh. Rail. & Canal Newcastle and Carlisle Newport,Aberg.,St Herefor North British (in. Dalkeith) North Devon North-Eastern North London North Staffordshire North-Western N. Yorkshire and Cleveland Oxford, Wore., & Wolver Peebles St. Helen's Canal & Railway Scottish Central Scottish North-Eastern Shrewsbury & Birmingham Shrewsbury and Chester Shrewsbury & Hereford Shropshire Union South Devon South-Eastern South Wales S. Yorkshire and River Dun Stockton and Darlington Taff Vale Ulster Ulverstone and Lancaster Vale of Neath Warrinkton and*Stockport. Waterford and Kilkenny Waterford and Limerick West Cornwall W.llartlepoolliarbr. &Rail Whitehaven Junction Whitehaven & Furness Jun W'haven,Cleator,&Ent FOREIGN AND grm COLONIAL Antwerp and Rotterdam Austrian Belgian Eastern Junction Buffalo and Lake Huron Detroit and Milwaukie Dutch Rhenish Grand Trunk of Canada Great Indian Peninsula Great Luxembourg Great Western of Canada Lombardo-Venetian Lyons and Geneva • Madrid, Saragossa &Alicant Maria Antonia Northern of France Norwegian Trunk Paris, Lyons, & Mediterrn Paris and Orleanii Paris and Strasburg Royal Danish • Sambre and Meuse Southern of France West Flanders W. and N.W. of France 125 193 91 67/ 199 191 111 142. 1832 283 1731 9i 28 6141 177 746 9 233 46-4 10i 102 18 602 44 879 922' 1,032 119 1981 94 8 20 40i 57 17i 31 87} 489 291 22 1831 283 1734 9 28 6144 177 144 35 735 3 / 4 9 233• 46} 115 291 48 291 57/ 302 171/ 108 119 re, ~------ 1860. 1,537 .611 5,782 1,865 6,681 11,486 261 335 245 263 1,260 1,720 j 2,472 1.6?9 648 1,070 964 26,047 6,258 S,4SB Z 45 1,487 7,922 25,783 1,619 8,884 33,287 35,010 840 922 1,010 - 156 529 82,583 1,586 moo] 15,972,, 966 12,40 1,M9 1,213 40,350 4,908 1,391 2,561 4,059 1,447 5,853 ipts. 419 40,213 2,546 7,990 5,185 1859. 1,212 . 1 , 055 6,35: 9 13,00? .eB3 1,443 221 1,195 0,717 2,088 1,567 511 941 1,013 26,440 5,94% 3,291 290 1,283 7,301 23,261 1,556 8;50 2 31,608 30,600 425 1,452 719 4,224 742 723 495 159 605 73,035 1,435 18,268 15,431 861", 30,16 244 1,058 3,288 3,036 14,434 3,965 2,505 9,111 4,657 12,157 14,00 S 69,843, 47,075 1,105 10,509 956 33,214 4,809' 3,522 2,237 3,312 1,361 5,351 430 34,564 2,523 7,481 .1,271 117,927 10 UNTRY MARKETS.: 420 1,522 57 3 150 0 , 600 (128 395 983 2,082 2,776 9,218 3,402 2,414 7,628 - 67269 8,624 I ,353 88,199 51,599 1,30 16,278 • 1;55 :40,391 LIVERPOOL--MAY 11. We had a fair attendance at this day's market, and the consumptive demand for wheat improved ; prices at Tues day's currencies. . Flour neglected. Oats were in fair re quest Oatmeal the turn lower. Beans, peas, and barley easier to buy. Indian corn neglected, at prices in favour of buyers. WAKEFIELD-MAY 11. We have a fair supply of wheat, with a limited sale it rather over last Friday's rates. Very little business in English barley, and rather cheaper. Other articles were unchanged. EXETER-31AT 11. With a tolerable attendance, the business to-day was firm at the following prices : Wheat, white.. Gs 9d to 78 Od I Barley.. 4d Od to 5s 04 Ditto red .. 5s 3d to 5s 6d. Oats ........ 35 6d N3s 9 4 Flour, fine, 40s to 41s; seconds, 38s to 39s per sack. CATTLE. The attendance was good, and the market was moderately supplied with fat stock. A small supply of pork carcases, at previous rates. Fat bcef,p score, 1086 d to Ils Ewes, per lb .. •• 70 to 04 Perk carcases, do 9s to 108 6d Wethers, do. .Bdto 01 Shccp, per lb. Od to 71d. Fat calves, d 0.... sid to Oil Rough fat, 4id per lb. THE MAILS. MAILS DUE. Australia, Ceylon, and Mauritius (via South ampton) .. • • • • • .. June 10. Do. • (via Marseilles) June 4. Bahamas and Havana (via New York) .. Juno 7. Canada, &c. (via Cork) .. • ..' .. May 16. Cape of Good Hope, &c. .. • • .. June 1. China, Penang, and Singapore (via S'ampton) May 19. Do. (via Marseilles) May 13. Gibraltar (via Southampton) .. • May 19. India (Calcutta), Ceylon, & c . ( v i a S ou th ampton) May 19. Do. (via Marseilles) May 13. India (Bombay), (via Southampton) .. May 25. Do. (via Marseill es ) • • .. May 19. Lisbon, Brazils, Buenos Ayres, &c. Jima 5. Lisbon, Vigo, and Oporto . • .. May 11. Malta, Egypt, and Aden (via Southampton) .. May 19. Do. (via Marseilles) May 13. United States, Californi a , &c. (pia Cork) May 16. Western Coast of Africa, Madeira, Teneriffe .. May 10 West Indies and Pacific, Carthgena, Cuba, &c. May 14. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—HoIIoway's Ointment and Pills.-- Warning to Mothers.—The little attacks of illness attend ing childhood, though apparently trifling and evanescent, leave marks behind them when they recur frequently. The temper becomes irritable, •and the complexion grows murky. It is the duty of all having the care of children to attend instantly to their trivial maladies; for the radical removal of which Holloway's remedies have received the most encouraging and constant praises for a quarter of a century. These invaluable medicaments are safe and certain; though mild, they never deceive the nurse. In skin diseases, teller, ringworm, toothrash, and every kind of eruption, the soothing power of Holloway's Ointment is most o t gratifying; alway s ensuring ease and repose for the littl. BIRTHS. • ' LATTER.—On the 10th inst., at Fulham, the wife of th Rev. Arthur S. Latter, of .a daughter. WlexENs.—On the 10th inst., at 46, Gloucester-square, the wife of John Wiokens, Esq., of Lincoln's-inn, of a daughter. MARRIAGES. IItr.,DvARD —MORESEY.—On the 10th inst., at All Saints', Southampton, Henry Charles, only son of Henry Hild yard, Esq., late of Rio Janeiro, to Jane, youngest daugh ter of the late Captain R. Moresby, I.N. PYE—JAMES.—On the 10th inst., at Avington, Berks, Captain C. C. Pye, 63d Regt ., second son of H. J. Pye, Esq., of Clifton-hall, Staffordshire, to Barbara Wilber force, eldest daughter o f the Rev. J. James, rector of Avington. BisouNT.—On the 10th inst., at 28, Old Burlington-street, Lieut.-Colonel llerbert Blount, late of the 68th Light Infantry. tURGESS.—On the 10th inst , at Bath, Hugh William Burgess, Esq., aged 64. Cooll.—On the 10th inst., at 91, Albert-street, Morning ton-crescent, the Rev. W A. Cook, aged 56. LONDON : Printed and Published by MTJRDO YOUNe, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the, §Av,oy, in the county of Middlesex, Saturday, May 12, 1860. rNCE: WEEK. OH 36,896 THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 12, 1860, ever] Chat C' ion, 2d.0 Mon thel oftx Afa'w A ei)nd , perol aside( This elerma witch EVE direc non Door Tunci chear most Ito gr( t -.ern P(le, gian Dints, to M. Teeth valua M or stu prioci age Whin! visibl their tende Tom' , erm be th i IiER cti body, and c durin truce,, Cum.ft strit AS A D o An u- Pos office, 1 E the I - , and ii Price 1 3 ' and of VA, beaut ter, 31 Ltnanu Mai se Mr. MIN] the in and( PR RAL, C E lJ ~ theca . ahoy( LOSki of Lo gene( Also ment Th (Gon the I Th The Thei Item than- OLtsr Bor. yet rec .At 31e4 T 1 in 3 Tb In te Th ei and aprii Thei Cure Am Jast Al Perf 15, A Strii Earl of Ili Poll and over CI Gon phi Old