The Sun. — London, England, 1829-06-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—(LAST NIGHT.) STOCKS' DIVORCE BILL. Counsel were beard and witnesses examined on this Bill. After which the LORD CHANCELLOR stated that the evidence adduced was quite sufficient, and moved the second reading of the Bill, which was accordingly done. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Sir ALEXANDER GRANT and others brought up the Sugar Warehousing Bill, Irish Arms Bill, the Division of Counties Bill, Cotton Factories Regu lation Bill, Justice of the Peace Metropolis Regu lation Bill, togetker with several Private Bills. The Earl of MALMESBURY presented a pe tition from Cambens ell, in Surrey, praying that they might be excluded from the operation of the Metropolitan Police Bill. Lord DURHAM presented a petition from St. Martin's, against the London Bridge Approaches Bill. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY presented a petition from a Hundred in Kent, against the Anatomy Bill. The Earl of HAREWOOD presented a petition from Mr. Thomas Wakley, the Editor of the Lancet, against the passing of the Anatomy Bill. EAST INDIA TRADE. Lord ELLENBORO UGH laid on the table the papers respecting the East India Trade, which the Marquis of Lansdowne moved for a few days ago. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that in pursuance to the notice he had given, he rose to pre sent petitions from some of the most important commercial towns in England. It was not at pre sent his intention to enter into the subject fully, as the Noble Lord at the head of the Board of Con trout had been pleased to lay on the table papers relative to the evidence hereafter to be laid before the House. If that information should be complete, and he had no reason to doubt that it would be com plete, it would comprise an entire view of the terri torial and commercial revenue of the East India Company ; of the trade between the possessions of the east India Company and the United Kingdom; of the private trade of merchant-adventurers from this country to the dominions of the East India Company ; of the trade of merchants of other parts of the world with the East Indies; of the exclusive trade enjoyed by the East India Company with the dominions of the Emperor of China ; and, as far as could be obtained, a view of the trade enjoyed by other countries with China, not governed by the same rules or confined by a similar monopoly as this country. Upon all these subjects he trusted the Bowe would have complete information before it pro ceeded to legislate on so important a subject. But it was his duty to state now, that when the House had obtained all the information the Noble Lord at the head of the Board of Control should be able to lay before it, it would be matter of information far short of those which were necessary to enable the House to legislate OH the condition of India. It would depend on the mea sures that this and the other House might adopt for the government of that country, whether its trade be successful or not. It was only by collecting oral information, or individual information from that country, that the House would be enabled to come to a sound conclusion. He trusted the House would lose no time in gaining this information which he hoped by the next meeting of Parliament they would be enabled to obtain. With these ob servations he begged that the petition of the town of Liverpool might be read at length. He should fol low up that by presenting petitions from various other towns of the first commercial importance in the coun try. The Noble Marquis then presented petitions to the same effect from the merchants of Wolverhamp ton, and from the Chamber of Commerce (Ireland) to the same effect. Lord GODERICH postponed his notice of mo tion from to-night till Thursday, respecting Shipping and Navigation. Lord SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland at Earl of Armagh, claiming his right to vote for the Representative Peers of Ireland. The petition was referred to a Committee. The Marquis of LASSDOWNE moved for several additional papers respecting a free trade to India. ANATOMY BILL. Lord CALTHORPE moved the order of the day for the second reading of this Bill, when The Archbishop of CANTERBURY said he did not rise to postpone the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Bill, but to express his hope that the Noble Lord who had under taken the management of it, would not push it through the House during this Session. He was fully aware of the situation of society with respect to the subject to which this Bill referred, and of the necessity there was of afording additional faci lities for dissection to the anatomical student. No observation could fall from the Noble Lord on this subject in which he would not fully con cur. But the proceeding he had to propose was, that the Bill should now be permitted to pass through a second reading, upon an understanding, that it should be carried no further this Ses sion, and that next year measures should be introduced providing in a less objectionable manner for the supply of dissecting rooms, which should effectually preserve the bodies of the dead from indignities, and secure to them interment in eon-eerated ground, and with religious rights. Lord CALTHORPE could not wave the second e e zding of the Bill to-night, nor accede to the sti pulatiozi Proposed by the Learned and Rev. Prelate. Appalling e ;:eumstances connected with this subject rendered the neces:_ i lY imperious of having a measure passed without delay. He hoped their Lordships would not only consent to tile. 2 9 -cond Tiding o f the Bill, but that they would agr ee t o con;:der i n Cm ' mittee the best means of rendering the me - . 7 " ire as unobjectionable as possible. The Earl of MALNIESBURY was desirous to know if the Noble Baron meant to press the Bill in the present session % If such were the intention of the Noble Baron, he should feel it necessary to state his objections to the Bill then. Lord CALTHORPE said that the Noble Earl would have an opportunity of stating his objection on the motion for going into Committee. The Earl of MALMESBURY said, that as he objected to three out of four of the provisions of., the Bill, it would be uncandid in him if he left it to be supposed that he had any hope that the Bill, could be made unobjectionable in the Committee. He objected also to the principle of interfering with the bodies of persons who had not offended against the laws. He begged again to ask if the Noble Baron meant to press the Bill in the present session, for if such were the intention of the Noble Lord, he should go into his ob'ection now; but if it were intended to postpone the Bill till the next session, he should, as lie wished to avoid discussion, say no thing upon the measure. Earl GREY said that impressed as he was with the great benefits which would be produced by this sill to the community at large, but more especially to the poor—with these opinions, and with these impressions, and being moreover fully sensible to all the inconveniences that might result from delay, still iie did feel inclined, if his advice could have any weight, to advise the Noble Baron to accede to the proposition of the Right Rev. Prelate, under the understanding that something would be done in the next session to remedy the inconveniences which re sulted from the present state of the law, and that, in the interval, Noble Lords would turn their atten tion seriously to the subject, with the view of de vising some plan by which the object of the Bill might be effected in a less objectionable mode. lie regretted that the Bill could nut be carried into a Jaw in this session ;- but, under all the circum eta/ices of the case, he thought the course proposed would be found the most advisable. The Earl of HAREWOOD begged to take this opportunity of obcerving, that with respect to the horrid and outrageous proceedings at Edinburgh, which had been alluded to that evening, it was a disgrace to the cpuntry that they had not been in vestigated more fully, and that the public had not been informed of the result of the investigation. All that the public knew was, that fifteen or sixteen murders had been committed, mid he must say that he thought the public mind ought to be satisfied. The 'Duke of WELLINGTON was extremely glad that the Noble Baron had consented, as he understood he had, to proceed no further with the Bill in the present Session. He approved so strongly of the object which the Noble Lord had in view, and of the principle on which the Noble Lord pro fessed to proceed, that if the measure had beer] dis cussed, it was his full intention to have supported the second reading, and to have done all is his power to amend the Bill in the Committee.— (Hear, hear.)—Why he was glad that the Bill was to be postponed was, that he was aware of the op position that would be raised to it, and of the quar ter from which that opposition was to come; and knowing, too, how much influence that opposition was likely to have upon the country, he could not help feeling that it was extremely desirable that such effects should not accompany the measure as it passed into a law. He was delighted, therefore, that the Bill was to be rostponed, and although he could not take upon himself the task of bringin g forward a measure upon the subject, yet he would willingly co-operate with any Noble Lord who should bring forward another measure, even on the principle of this Bill, to get rid of the horrible evils which were produced by the present system.—(Hear, hear.) — Unless they could increase the number of subjects for dissection, they would do nothing. The first thing, then, to be done was this—but it could only be well done by being done in the way which was least objectionable to the feelings and prejudices of the people.—(Hear, hear.)—With respect to the observations of the Noble Earl (Harewood) upon the subject of the Edinburgh murders, he could only observe that the most diligent investigation into those horrible transactions had taken place, and that punishment had been inflicted where the laws of the country allowed the infliction of punishment. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was sorry that the, Bill was to be postponed. When another mea sure was brought forward, he should certainly pro pose that that part of our law which directed that the bodies of malefactors shaulil be given over for dissection should be repealed. He trusted that early in the next Session some measure would be brought forward on this subject. Lord 4 TODERICH regretted that the Bill should be postponed, and trusted that the Government would take the subject into their own hands. The Earl of HADDINGTON had also to re gret the postponement of this measure. He begged to observe, in answer to what had fallen from the Noble Earl (Harewood), that the dreadful circum stances which had taken place at Edinburgh had been probed to the bottom. As the monster Burke could not be brought to punishment without the evidence of the monster Hare, it seemed very likely that these were the only persons concerned in the murders. After a few words from the Earl of HAREwoon, and the Earl of HADDINGTON, Lord TENTERDEi begged leave to draw their Lordships' attention, for a few minutes, to this sub ject, which he considered to be one of very great import. That the state of the law, as it now exist ed, was susceptible of improvement, he did not mean to deny; hut he thought that whatever alterations or amendments it might be deemed necessary to in troduce in the law, ought to be effected by a mea sure exceedingly different from that now before their Lordships. It was not his intention to state, in detail, his objections to this measure, but there were one or two points to which he most strongly objected. He could not see the necessity of that part of the Bill which went to enable a Secretary of State to establish as many schools of anatomy in the metropolis as he might think proper. In Paris, he believed, there were but two schools of anatomy. Whether that number was sufficient for this great metropolis, he could not say; but he would not place such a power as that to which he had alluded, in any hands whatsover. He felt another, and a very strong objection, as to some of the regulations of the Bill : for instance, it was proposed, that the bodies of the destitute, of the friendless, and of those who had none to help them—of those who were compelled to take refuge in our hospitals and public institutions—it was proposed that their bodies should be given up for dissection. Now, he be lieved that those individuals felt the most uncon querable objection to the dissection of their bodies ; and he did not think that the feelings on this sub ject would be in the least degree removed by the consideration, that, subsequent to dissectkii. their bodies would be decently buried. One argu ment, which was strongly urged in favour of the measure, was, that it would prevent the recurrence of such crimes as had lately been committed in Edin burgh. Now, he thought that what had already been done, would, in a great measure, effect that ob ject : because he knew that proper attention would in future be paid, so that professional men would at once discover whether subjects that were brought to them were the victims of barbarity or persons who had died a natural death. Trusting, therefore, to the feelings of the profession, the members of which he considered as a humane and honourable set of men, he had every reason to believe that such vigilance and attention would hereafter be manifested by them, as would effectually prevent any trans ' action similar to those which had recently been dis covered from again taking place. He wished to know whether this Bill was to be read a second time and to stop there, with an implied pledge on the part of their Lordships, that a similar measure was to be sanctioned in the next session; because he begged it to be understood, that as an humble mem ber of that House he could not consent to such a proposition. He was perfectly ready to concur in any proper measure, having the same object in view, but he could not agree to have it effected in this particular way. In the last session of Parliament a noble Marquis (Lansdowne) had proposed to re peal mt.. .. . clause in a former Act of Parliament, which directed that the bodies of murderers should be given up for dissection,and he had this evening timated his intention, when :."v measure of this na ture came before the House, to feet that alteration in the law. Now he Ter:- terden) must say that he would look at a proposi• tion of that kind in a very different point of view, if it formed part of a general system, from that in which he would look at it if it stood by itself. Lord CALTHORPE could not avoid expressing his surprise at the oppesition to this Bill. All he could say was, that, by the postponement of this measure, more injury was likely to be inflicted on the feelings of individuals during the interval be tween this and the next Session, than could possibly happen if the Bill had been agreed to. The Bill was then withdrawn. METROPOLIS POLICE BILL. The Duke of WELLINGTON, in rising to move that the Metropolis Police Bill be committed, said, that it was not necessary for him to detain their Lordships with many observations. There could be no doubt—and every Noble Lord who heard him must be aware of the fact—that no branch connected with the administration of public justice in this country was so deficient as the police. This was clearly proved by the great increase of crime in the metropolis, as appeared by the returns laid before a Committee of the other House, by whom this subject was investigated in the course of last year. It appeared from those returns, that in the last six years the total number of criminals committed for various offences had increased to the amount of 2-sths. The commitments in London and Middlesex in 1822, were 2,539; in 1825, 2,902; in 1828, 3,516; thus making a positive in crease of 2-sths in 1828, as compared with 1822. This proportion did not arise from the prevalence of any particular crime, hut it prevailed inalmost every species of crime which was ordinarily perpetrated in the metropolis and its neighbouring districts, during the same period. [ln support of his position the Noble Duke here contrasted the number of per sons committed in 1822 fo;.the different crimes of burglary, assault with intent to commit rape, rob.. bery on the highway, &c., with the number of per sons committed in 1828, for the like offences, but so indistinctly, that it was not possible to catch the numbers accurately.] It was perfectly clear to him, and to all who had considered the subject, that this rapid and extraordinary increase of crime arose wholly from the deficiency of the police. Their Lordships must know that the state of the watch in most of the parishes of the. metropolis was most in efficient. Indeed, nothing could possibly be more so. And though the state of the watch was thus con fessedly inefficient, yet, from events which had re cently occurred, he believed it was well ascertained that the watch was exceedingly expensive to parishes. He might say that they were almost as expensive as they were inefficient.—(Hear, hear.)—lt was very evident that the present system required great and extensive alteration ; for although numbers of rob beries, burglaries, and crimes of all descriptions oc curred almost every night in various parishes of the metropolis, yet it appeared that no effectual mea sures were taken to prevent the recurrence of such outrages. Indeed, a list might be formed of parish es. in the neighbourhood o f th e me t ro p o lis w h ere t h ere was absolutely no protection for person or property. —(Hear, hear.)—ln the metropolis itself—in 'West minster—where there was a watch in every parish, the system was so badly arranged, that in fact there was no co-operating communication between the watchmen of one parish and those of another; and even in the same parish there were frequently dif ferent watch establishments, governed by different local authorities. In one parish, that of St. Pancras, there were no less than eighteen different establish ments formed under different Acts of Parliament, not one of them having any communication with an other. The consequence was, that the watchmen of one district were content with driving thieves from their own particular neighbourhood into that which adjoined it. But there was no doubt what ever in his mind that it was perfectly practicable to prevent, in a very great degree, the commission of crimes by a new regulation of the police. Many of their Lordships must recollect what used to take place on the high roads in the neighbourhood of the metropolis some years ago. Scarcely a carriage could pass without being robbed, and frequently the passengers were obliged to fight with, and give battle to, the highwaymen who infested the roads. But such a thing as a robbery committed by a man mounted on horseback was now never heard of.— This change had been effected by an improvement in the police system; and their Lordships must be aware that it was easy to establish, even in the city of Londe's itself, a watch so framed as to prevent the commission of crime and outrage. There was an other point to which he svi,hed to call the attention of their Lordships, and that was, the desire which so generally prevailed throughout the country, to diminish the number of capital punishments,—and, indeed, to soften the severity of punishment in all cases. Now, the best mode of avoiding the infliction of punishment, was to prevent the growth of crime ; and the Legislature would do away the necessity of frequent punish. ment by adopting a measure of this description, which would place an efficient police in the hands of the magistrate. The measure then before their Lordships had for its object to form a new police office for the metropolis, and the surrounding dis tricts; and under the powers of this Bill, it was to be an office which would have the whole direction of the new police, two justices being appointed to carry on the business of the office, under the Secre tary of State for the Home Department. The pro visions of the Bill might, if circumstances rendered it necessary, be extended to places in the counties of Middlesex, Surrey, Hertford, Essex, and Kent, not enumerated in the schedule annexed to the Bill, to the distance of twelve miles from Charing-cross. rhe justices were to have no power beyond what was necessary to protect the peace of the country, and to carry this measure into effect. It was pro posed by this Bill that a body of constables should be raised, and placed tinder the particular direction of this office. It was intended r at first, to restrict the operation of this measure to a small number of parishes, and to extend it, by degrees, to such other parishes, not named in the schedule, within the dis tance of twelve miles from Charing-cross, in which such an alteration might appear desirable. The ex pense of paying the patrol, &c. was to be defrayed by a rate, in the same way_ as the poor's 'rate, but not to exceed eight-pence in the pound. These were the leading points of the Bill, and lie now moved " that it be committed." Lord HOLLAND did not mean to offer any ob jection either to the principle or the details of the Bill; but there was one point to which he wished to draw the attention of the friends and the support ers of the Bill, which he conceived was worthy of consideration. By this measure, he understood that the same rate would be levied on lands as on tene ments, which would inflict a great hardship on th e outstanding parishes. In some instances, he be lievd, the rate would be as high as three shillings an acre; and, in his opinion, the principle was hardly equitable. It was scarcely just to levy the same rate on those who had lands arid no houses, as en those who possessed houses, since it was obvious that the latter would reap the greater benefit from the Bill. Lord DURHAM did not wish, more than his Noble Friend, to offer any captious objections to this Bill, but still he was desirous of making a few observatiens on the measure. What he objected to in this Bill was, the inconsistency of its preamble, as contrasted with its provisions. It appeared, from the statement of the Noble Duke, and also from that of the Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment, so far as they could judge of it from the irre gular way in which those matters were made public, that the principle on which the measure proceeded was that of uniformity of action. The preamble said, " Whereas off ences aga i nst p ro p e rty have latelyincreased in and near the metropolis, and the local establishments of nightly watch and nightly police have been found inadequate to the prevention and detection of crime, by reason of the frequent unfitness of the individuals employed, the insuffi ciency of their number, the limited sphere of their authority, and their want of connection and co-ope ration with each other; and whereas it is expedient to substitute a new and more efficient system of po lice in lieu of such establiAments," &c. Now, after this preamble, he certainly did not expect to find in the very next passage a provision - to limit the ope ration of the Bill, and to exclude from it one half of the metropolis, namely, the city of London. He wished to' know whe;ber the police who would be formed under the new system, in any given parish, would be obliged to afford their assistance in other parishes, where the same system did not prevail, and where the rate was not paid, He should also like to know whether the new Ma g i strates wou ld in any way interfere with the establishments of Bow. street, Hatton-garden, &C. The Earl of MALMESBURY agreed with the Noble Baron opposite (Lord Durham) that the operation of this Bill should have been extended to the city, and if he were a citizen, h e s h ou ld o bj ec t to it, because the city did not co me w i t hi n t h e scope of its provisions, since the consequence would be, that it would make all the thieves *ssemble in London, as an asylum. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that with respect to the Noble Lord's objectio n , th at t h e Bill did not apply to the city, he begged to state, that the understanding was, that the same plan as that on which the watch of Westminster, or rather of the metropolis, would be formed afte r t hi s Bill h a d passed, would be adopted in the city. As t o the Noble Lord's question on the subject of the duties of the new magistrates, he begged to inform him, that the office about to be created for the directiori of the police of the metropolis, was an office for the superintendence of that specific establish ment a l one . Lord DURHAM said, that one portion of what had fallen from him had been misunderstood. On referring to the 13th page of the Bill, a clause would be found, the operation of which was to throw the support of the new police upon the poor-rates of the parish in which that police should be introduced. Now he wished to know whether such police would be liable to do duty in the adjoining parishes which might not be tinder the operation of thi s Bill, and which, in that case, would derive all the benefit of the new police, While the entire burden of its sup pert would be thrown on one individual parish. The Duke of WELLINGTON said that such a police would certainly be liable to be employed in every parish in the district. Lord DURHAM put the case of six parishes, one of which might have come under the operation of the Act, and it would be thus charged with the entire burden, while the benefit would be shared in common with it by the five remaining parishes. That, he conceived, would be a great hardship. The Duke of WELLINGTON .understood that it would be optional on the part of parishes to ac cept or refuse this Act. The Earl of ELDON merely wished to express his concurrence in what had fallen from the Noble Baron (Durham) and the Noble Earl (Malmesbury) as to the lateness of the period in which Bills of such importance were brought into that House. Lord DURHAM had never intended to make it a matter of charge against his Majesty's Govern ment that this Bill had been introduced into the House at this late period. His complaint referred generally to the lateness of the period at which a great number of important Bills were usually sent up to that House, and he conceived that an arrange ment might be made with the other House of Par liament, so as to obviate that inconvenience. The principal cause of this influx of business at a late period of the session into that House was to be found in a rule of the House of Commons, that no Money Bill could originate but in that House. He had reason to know that many Members of the House of Commons were anxious that that rule should be done away with, so that Money Bills might originate in either House. Some arrange ment of that kind, he conceived, might be effected, so as to divide the public business between both Houses. The House then went into Committee on the Dill, and the House having resumed, the report was agreed to, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Wednesday next. On the question being put for the second reading of the Offences against the Person (Ireland) Bill (as we understood), Lord CARBERY suggested the propriety of postponing a meas►►re of such importance as regarded Ireland, on account of the late period of the session not allowing of sufficient time for its consideration. The Earl of WICKLOW said, if the Bill were now read a second time, there would be ample time for discussing its provisions in Committee. The Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Wednesday next. Several Bills were then forwarded a stage.—Ad journed. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(LAST NIGHT.) Mr. NIONCK presented a petition from Wm. Carmichael Smith, praying for a Committee to in quire into the reasons why he had been dismissed from his situation as Paymaster of the Exchequer. Mr. DAWSON stated, that he had been dis missed from his situation in consequence of his obnoxious oonduct to his colleague, and his giving false reasons for being absent front his office six weeks: He had been offered another situation in the Treasury. Mr. MONCK moved that the petition be printed. Mr. DAWSON begged of the Hon. Gentleman to withdraw his motion, as he pledged himself, if the Hon. Member would call at the Treasury on any day, he would undertake to convince him that this person had no reason to complain. Mr. MONCK then withdrew. his motion, and said he would call on the Right Hon. Member to morrow. Sir H. PARNELL gave notice that he should next Session move that a Select Committee he ap pointed to inquire into the propr;ety of establishing a periodical census of the population in Ireland. Mr. C. PALLMER moved for leave to poStpone his Bill relative relative to party walls in buildings till next Session.—Leave granted. Mr. C. PALLMER also presented a petition from Jonathan Jary, for assistance in bringing into use an invention for the escape of persons from fires. COLONIAL APPEALS. Mr. C. PALLMER gave notice that early next Session he should move for a commission to inquire into the jurisdiction and practice of his Majesty's Privy Council, with respect to appeals from the West India Colonies, and acts of the Colonial Legislatures. Mr. HUME, in moving for additional returns re lative to Light-houses, complained at great length of the difficulty of obtaining returns, and of their irregularity when obtained. On the 24th of March he had moved for returns relative to Light-houses, but he had only received them two days ago, and this negligence had prevented his making a mo tion on the subject during this Session. He, how ever, begged to state, that early in the next Session he intended making a motion, by which he expected to be able to show as great an abuse of the public funds as had ever been discovered. Mr. HUME moved for Returns of the Fees of all Officers, Judges, Advocates, and Proctors, be longing to the Ecclesiastical Courts, for the years 1826, 1827, and 1828. Sir JOHN NICHOLL said it was most unpre cedented to call for all the private emoluments of the officers of any Court. If the House thought it ought to be agreed to he should say the returns ought to include the Solicitor and Attorney• General, and all the officers and practitioners of every other Court. Mr. FERG US SON must protest against agreeing to these returns; the House had as much right to call for returns of the profits of any private mer chant as of those of respectable practitioners in any Court. Sir J. MACKINTOSH thought the returns ought to be called for. In this age of reform ation of the practice of the several Courts of Law, it was necessary for the House to know that the expellees attending litigation were not of that unreasonable kind as to operate against obtaining a due administration of justice. Mr. Secretary PEEL would be sorry to see any order that would go to expose the emoluments necessarily arising from private practice, which would be the case if the return, as worded, were agreed to. The House might as well enquire into the profits of the medical profession. He therefore hoped the Hon. Member would alter the terms of his motion, so as only to include fees paid to public officers. After a short discussion between Sir J. MACKIN TOSH, Mr. D. W. HARVEY, and Mr. TRANT, Mr. HUME said he would alter his motion by inserting the words " by virtue of his office," as he had no wish to pry into the affairs of private practice. The motion, as amended, was agreed to. Mr. HUME then said that with the view of get ting the whole costs of a suit in the Ecclesiastical Court, he would move for an account of all the costs, fees, and emolument s , awarded against the suitors in the case of !‘ p r ime v.Briscoe." This gave rise tQ a conversation rather than a dis cussion, in which Sir J. Nicholl, Dr. Phillimore, Mr. Fergusson, Mr, Trant, Sir C. Burrell, and Mr. D. W. Harvey took part; after which the gallery was in part cleared for a division on the motion. On our return we found that no division took place, and after some further conversation, Mr. HUME allowed his motion to stand as a notice for Friday. Mr, BROU GH AM suggested that it would be desirable to include in the termer returns of fees, an account of the amount of fees to advocates, taken in those Courts about a century ago, with the view of showing whether they had increased since. He . knew that in the Courts at Westminster there had been no increase in the fees of barristers within that time. On the contrary they had diminished. The motion was allowed to stand as a notice for Friday. ____ NEW WRIT. On the motion of Mr. G. DAwsoN, a new writ was directed to be issued for a member to serve for the University of Cambridge, in the room of Sir N. Tindal, who has accepted the office of Chief Justice of the Common Pleas. FRENCH CLAIMS. Sir J. GRAHAM presented a petition from Mr. John Briant (we believe), setting forth some claim on the sums appropriated to liquidating the British claims on France, and praying that his case might be taken into consideration. Sir R. VYVIAN presented a petition from the mayor and burgesses of a town in Cornwall, praying for the abolition of suttees in India. LORD CHIEFJUSTICE OF THE COMMON PLEAS. Mr. D. W. HARVEY.—I rise to move that cer tain returns relating to the Court of Chancery, for which I moved on a former day, be now printed. I will take this opportunity of putting a question to the Right Hon. Secretary, whom I see opposite. It is well known that the Noble and Learned Judge who is still flung the office of the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas is about to retire, and as he has only filled the office of Judge for ten or eleven years, he is not, I conceive, entitled to the retiring pension; I therefore ask the Right Hon. Gent. opposite, whether the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas retires with a medical certificate of ill health, to entitle him to receive the retiring pension ? It is also stated that this noble personage is, upon his retirement, to fill an important situation in the other Howse of Parliament. However fit it may be that that individual should be elevated to the Peerage, I take it for granted that it cannot be true that he who retires from ill health from the arduous duties of Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas can be in a competent state of health to take a situa tion in the House of Lords, of which the duties are equally laborious. Every one will see that rumour is calling this individual to a station quite alien from all his former studies and pursuits. Mr. PEEL—My answer is, that the Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas is not retiring in any manner that is not perfectly conformable to the pro visions of the Act of Parliament.---(Hear, hear.) — The returns were ordered to be printed. Mr. D. W. HARVEY presented a petition from a Committee of the Weavers of Spitalfields, deny ing the allegations in Mr. Moore's petition as to the rate of wages given to the different descriptions of weavers, and praying for a Committee to inquire into the state of their trade and of their remuneration. After a few words from Mr. F. BUXTON, the petition was brought up, and on its being read by the Clerk, it was found that it referred to some ob servations made in one of the debates of the House. The SPEAKER, in declaring that the petition could not be received on account of its irregularity, expressed his surprise that any Member should have presented a petition which he had either not read, Tor having read, must have known to be a violation of the privileges of the House. Mr. H UME said that this was one of the circum stances which convinced him of the propriety of the House having reporters of its own, in order that the public might have an authenticated version of their debates to refer to. The petition, after a few words from the SPEAKER on the necessity of vindicating the privileges of the House, till those privileges were altered by the House, was rejected. INDIA. Mr. C. WYNN presented a petition from certain natives of India, praying for admission to further civil privileges than those at present extended to them. Mr. WHITMORE supported the petition. Lord ASHLEY stated that Government intended to direct its attention to the subject of this petition. Mr. HUME had been much engaged in business with the natives of India, and had found as much honesty of dealing in them as in Europeans. Mr. FERGUSSON said, that subscribed to this petition were the names of all the natives of Cal cutta who were best known- for their wealth, their respectability, and their intelligence. He recom , mended the appointment of a commission to inquire into every thing connected with the administration of justice in India. Sir C. FORBES wished to admit the natives of India to a participation of all civil rights belonging to British subjects. Sir J. MACKINTOSH concurred in the observa tions which had proceeded from every part of the House on this subject, and rejoiced at the liberal spirit which had breathed throughout the conver sation. He believed there never was any absolute government so well administered as that of India, and he took this as the best confutation of the re mark of a celebrated writer, that the dependencies of free states were worse gorerned than those of absolute monarchies. The British Government of India had two great merits,—it afforded security to persons and property, and toleration in matters of religion. These were benefits of the highest class : the defects set against them were, too enormous taxation, and the too general and great exclusion of natives of India from office. Of all persons con cerned in the government of India, Mr. Elphinstone, at Bombay, did the most to admitnatives to as large a share of civil privileges as possible. The Hon. Gent. then eulogised the character and conduct of Sir John Malcolm, than whom no man was better calculated to carry into effect the improvement of the natives. Dr. PHILLIMORE supported the petition. Mr. WARBURTON alluded to the evidence of Sir E. Streachy, as proving that doubts were en tained by some as to the propriety of admitting na• tives of India to be grand jurors. Sir C. FORBES argued against these doubts, and maintained that natives of India were as much entitled to consideration and respect as our own countrymen. Mr. STEWART rose to bear testimony to the great intelligence and moral worth of the natives of India, and to state his conviction of their fitness to discharge the important duties of grand jurors. The petition was brought up; on the question that it be read, Mr. C. W. W. WYNN observed that if the privilege sought for were uow.granted, he should not regret that it had not been before conceded. He thought it desirable that it should be granted as a boon, and so considered by the natives of India. The petition was read, and ordered to be printed. Mr. FERGUSSON presented the petition of the fishermen of Macduff and Banff it? Scotland, praying for the continuance of the bounties on fish. Laid on the table. Mr. DAWSON presented the report of the Com• missioners of Woods and Forests. Mr. O'NEIL presented, in the absence of his Hon. Friend the Member fi:r Galvvay (Mr. Lam. bert), a petition from certain inhabitants of that town, complaining that the money voted for the purpose of employing the poor in that district had been misappropriated to purposes different from those contemplated by the Legislature.—Read and ordered to be printed. Mr. A. DAWSON presented a petition from the inhabitants of Athlone, praying for a revision of the state of the representation in most of the boroughs of Ireland, and particularly of the boroughof Athlone. Ordered to be printed. Mr. 1-11JSKISSON presented the petition of the mayor, corporation, and merchants of Liverpool, praying that the East India trade might be opened to the mercantile community at large.—Read and ordered to be printed. The East India Offices Bill was read a third time and passed. On the motion being made that the Charities Inquiry Bill be read a third time, Mr. D. W, HARVEY had examined the report of the commissioners appointed to inquire into the state of charitable foundations in this kingdom, and saw enough in it to pronounce that they had lingered in the prosecution of that inquiry over the last ten years, so as to afford no hope that their labours w . be concluded within another year. In fact, had only half performed their task. The nurnb e rt r charities which it had been discovered were (Vv. e from the purposes to w hi c h t h e donors had a s t er them, were between 3,000 a nd 4,000 in noill The proceedings at law instituted for the rev;; • of property in trust for th e s e c harities were number : of these 50 w e re still undetermin eu ' l for five years past no report had been made es, Chancery on the subject of those informat io lA Thus in ten years only 20 ca uses had been sew and of those 20 the half had been settled by Oro, ties interested out of Court. The truth v eas 'r , , labours and value of thi s comm itt e e had been e$ vagantly overrated. t 10) Mr. BROIJG HAM w as no t bound to def ers Commission. It was not his measure, thoug.boie mately connected with it ; b u t h e must, in P,,te to the Commission, correct hi s H o n. Friend'slioto merit, and say the number of cases inquir,e d i od and settled at this momen t were 16; those D o o in part were 10, making a t o t a l o f 26. Nume j boi this was but the half of the coun ti e s in Erigh u ltits of those which remained 12 were Welch C l°. lo where the value of institutions of this nature w o e comparatively trifling, that it did not amonn„t a tt /nd , fortieth of the value of such properties in Df l „r e lp In their report was contained one.county --1D ".01 0 York,—which contained more wealth in Cho' be r, foundations than all the 12 Welch counties toiectAn, The amount, therefore, of the labours of the .; ,ht, mittee ought not to be taken by tale but by vl ,O l In the report, too, was contained, under ous,; the charities of Loudon, Westminster, and tar wark. Of the 71 cases alluded to 53 were /n l '4 tions, 18 were petitions to the Lord Chancellor', these 16 had been decided by the Court, wh ich , ceeded the proportion in which cases were ut decided in that Court, not one in four dug last, ten years having come to a final detertn in '' , ,l; with all that number of years.—(Hear.)--Th ° j g cided out of Court were 11, making a tota l cases decided. On the whole, 18,000 charitie s ; been inquired into and examined. One good of their application to the subject would be [oa k ( the perfect registration of charitable estates.- other result of an agreeable nature w al , be d 70,0001. of actual y e a r ly re venue ha" 0 ) Ir. Gilbert added to these charitabl e es t a t es . taken their annual income a t 250,00 01 . , the _ d t now had developed its e lf, an d their yearly r rw amounted, it was pretty well ascertained, to bet it 1,500,0004 and 2,000,0001. Though expo"/ the commission was necessary, but he ha d b 0 , re that expence would be defrayed without any c 12 , 01; to the public out of the est a t es s o increase d, , 0 011 vage was paid on property shipwrecked. T he Ili of a tribunal to deal with charitable abuser :h uh, establishments, adopt reform, or amend the constitution establishments, was principally felt. Nine ago he had introduced a Bill on the subject , i f tS; a regretted to say—and this he m ean t as an 3 . 1 r.;, friends who accused him w i t h a b an doning tit io si pottant object—that the jealousy of the rgl ,l o l , sects in this country had opp ose d a too suc , te , opposition to his Bill, and he withdrew it. c ofrt the progress of education since the inquir/ ve ri menced, he was happy to say it exceeded hit t e, tations. Of unendowed schools itf En land' 0 10, were 487. At the period to which thare t %oo; held in his hand alluded, in 1818, there werelioat in 1828, 3,200, which showed they were 'note doubled in that short space of time interven'nfr tween this and 1818. The steady p r ogre%)o growth of these unendowed schools made "' c 0 to confessed, pause as to th e measure he had "° 11 h ,,,,11' zealously contemplatednamely, the Parish S i ! 0 Bill. A great prospect was now opening tf . r o • these unendowed sc h oo ls, of e xt e nding the ho g of education to the mass of the communitY• , must the pdpelßiecpailitlyiownaosfrtehaed deplore. a third of the great cha rit ' e ECCLESIASTICAL After a short conversation on the subje ct 0 third reading of th e E cc l es i ast i ca l Courts Bil l ; ) , which Sir Jolts Nicola., Mr. HUME, Dr. t," t MORE, and Mr. JOHN Woo D too k a p ar t, the "'" divided on the amendment of M r . Hume, tha t Bill be read this day three months— For the amendment.. 7 I Against it ............. A d L tim c e ov an a d T p s a . d: sse,;,ll After a few remarks from Sir J. Nicitoaq= l " : ,f'i 4 4 l SMITH, Mr. HUME, and Mr. WooD, the 1 3 "' o rs passed, the clause for disqualifying deputy reg i9fr from acting as proctors being negatived. The Silk Manufacturers' Bill was read a'• time and passed. ADJOURNMENT. the CHEQUER, it was agreed that the ,House , e t . rising, do adjourn till Friday next. CARNATIC AND TANJORE COMMIS.-'-` 00 0 ' Mr. FERGUSSON wished to ask an 0 0 Baronet, one of the Carnatic an d Tanjore 10 0 sioners, what had been don e i n res p ec t to the of on the Rajah of Tanjore, and, if there Wer e difficulties, whether any thin g b a d b e en do .„ e move them. Sir R. H. INGLIS said th a t th e coultni s , li t iOS had met with som e di ffi culties in the itre etit 7 d epe, of the Tanjore claims ; fi rst , f or wan t of B , e ; , diP' tent Mahratta translator, an d th en from 1 70 culty of obtaining th e necessar y rec ords, ," were in the possession o f a na ti ve p r ince vim ° OO O not amenable to our authority, and who wa g lnig to part with the originals. I ns t ru ctions it,bst` sent to the commissioners in Indi a , w hose reP",7,00 not been received at the dat e o f the last t i t ioe' which had been laid on the t a bl e of the. R i e p ,eo He could assure the Hon. and L ea rned GeP l d' e le that every thing had been done which cO u done. CANADA. 0 14 Mr. LABOUCHERE rose to move Or i ,sof dress to his Majesty for copies or extracts ° d„ tb s communications between the Colonial-office ° "„ u str Governors of Upper and Lower Canada, in reo r ts' ance of the recommendation of the Caoad,_°,- lest mittee. The Hon. Member observed t fiii " r poo' Session, soon after the Hon. Member for lai /e A "110 had succeeded to the Colonial-office, he f 6u ntte ti colony of Canada in su c h a s t a t e , t h a t he sal - or the matter to the House, and a Committee pointed. A report had been laid before the b Pio without the slightest ''notice being taken of i t of s Majesty's Government. It gave a pictu i re n ee t British colony, such as never had been ton id! would be, he trusted, exhibited to the 1e7,, n ,it0 There had been no denial, from the Or g o' benches, of what had been asserted of the ,1 11 11 111 0 1. dous stat e o f t h ose co l on i es . Th e Rig h t Gentleman who was now at the head of th e , nial Departm en t h a d, ear ly i n t h e p r esent e`',T li po declared hi s i n t ent i on o f ma ki ng a statelir l l 'OOl the subject to the Ho use , and of introditic' t 'F' 9 0 tes" substantial measure of remedy, Up to this t he he had not don e so , an d now i t w as out ° d to question. He (Mr. Labouchere) was disPitioh l t give a great m easure o f con fi dence to t he b oil" Hon. Gentleman, but he thou g ht the Hos e t 0 not separate without som e add re ss or resolti".isr mark its sense of the subject, considering ~t„n l le, o o° portance of the colony, with a p o pulation of IV.' souls. Sir J. MACKINTOSH merely rose to eleroed his entire concurrence in the sentiments eqr , f rac asvi by the Hon. Member. a t Mr. WILMOT HORTON obseryed , origin of the dissensions in Canada might be de to the law of 1778, by whi c h a Colonial C° re the established there, which gave to the Legi sletu ip the right of appropriating all the duties levied a cts colony, whilst at the same time there w ere ett led' the statute book which must operate u ntil reP tio to He admitted that it would be a wise Icei o o to repeal those Acts, as productive of exasPerti" the colony. Cofe rrt i Mr. WORTLEY urged the necessity of mos is ment coming to a -speedy decision upon th don, which had been so long pending. . D'ut e " Sir G. MURRAY said, it (see med to be tha t to him (Sir G. M urr ay) as matter of blenrr'coe when the affairs of Canada were incidentally