The Sun. — London, England, 1829-03-11 00:00:00

131 PERIA 1, PA 111,IA NLENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.-(LAST NIGHT.) Mr. DowstE, Mr. floosou, mid several other Metnbers 01 the Commons, hrowsitt up the Edinburgh Gas Light Company Bill, and the St. Mary Stratford Vestry Apt • The Dnisent 'RICHMOND, I'r rented a petition from a ylare in :tgainst Einancipition. The NI-J(111'1s of CONYING HAM presented petition' , ft epveral parishes in Donegal, and other parts of Ire-, in favour of the Catholic tie Duke of GLOUCESTER pee-ented a petition front tto• town and neighbourhood of Southampton, in favour of the ettttioNe - . . Ittril UE DUNSTANVILLE presenteda petition Ihni 4111:nanth itt fa`onr of Einancipation. Lora W4STON presented n petition from Colebrook, 'fvitit . 'h Varish in the county ttf Ciloucester, from an 'nt!lik parish in Bockinghamehire, - from the Wesleyan Ahodists of Carnarvon, and ten other petitions from ditft•tent pari.k.ot *lid counties, against concession to tin, giNSFIELD presented a petition from Clack -I,toiimtm acmin,t further conres,imis. Bi:kop of DURHAM "presented a petition from W hitb orne an d E n d t oriq v against Emancipation. The. Archbishop of YORK presented petitions from iltiddersftebt, tiro Clergy of the West Riding of Yoik, and ••thee• islozes, avainst Concessions. L , t 4 MAYNARD presented a petition from Rochford, iiat fAvma.. o; the Catholioi. The . llishop of BATH and WELLS presented a peti ti..n from Bath, ttegellitr with several ot h er petitions, -.Aga:post rooms...km. Lord KING obscured, with reference, as we under :loud, to the petitiou from Bath, that it had 4,en earried shoot from house to house, had been N;i4zned by all the parish paupers._ in the alms-hew:es, and , I.to by all the plup , ,rs an,l apprentices in the p Irish wot k itouse. The Bishop of BAT U aed. „WELLS, in answer, had been inftwzased that it was vary numerously and respectably signed. The Bhhop of GLOUCESTER would take the present etnportsteity of making a fe.v remarks in justice to it very oesaescathie individual, and a very respectably body of m ete e , otton the Noble Baron opposite hail the other evening ar 'raigaed befere the House, when he (the Bishop of Glou cester) had the hot-Kew of preseeting a petition front the fellows of Eton College. The Noble Lord, on that occa sion, drew ont of his pocket a bundle of papers, and read tO their Lord-nips what he called an extract of a sermon delivered in the chapel belonging to the college, by one of the fellows. Ile had expressed an opinion that the ex• tract reed was not a cot rect one,—an opinion, in which, of coarse, the Noble Lord -did not coincide. He woeld eat the itherty of readine the extract with which the No ble Lord . had furnished him. " Roman Catholic principles Are fast creeping in, ruinous both in Courch andeStote. &ted ye hp, then, my brethren, in defence of the principles whitch the Church professes, but which are opposed by the resent refewernment." He should have thought that the ferrat e end eteucture of these sentences might have convinced sny o Of the least refiectien, who was not blinded by the ',est inveterate prejudices, that they were rather the bung titsg work of school boys, than the.composition of a Clergy 'man advance ! in years and long used in the duties of his profession. He now litageti leave to read an ex tract from the sermon as really delivered. The text was taken train Proverbs, 9:h verse, chap. 15. The Clergyman, after stating that it was Christianity which above all promotes righteousness, and after settine forth its principles and advantages, concluded with the following wends, to which alone the remarks made by the Noble Lord could apply t—" Such ie the religion whith our church professes, and which our Government uphold% which is caleuteted to exalt the prosperity of the esation in general, and the happiness of individuals in par ticular. Let not temptation withdraw us from it ; let nos jeer risk its sanctity ; but stand ye up, my brethren, and ish the name of the prophet of the Lind, seek and ark for the old p sth, where is the good way, and walk therein. For be well assured, that the Christian religion, as left us by our forefathers, pore and unadulterated, is the best of blessiree bestrewed on us by the graciims hand of God ; but mixed with the corruption of the Romish faith, it be comes an intolerant and dangerous euperstitian, and, so far from exalting the nation, if suffered to predominate, will not only be the reproach, - but the ruin of any people." &tele were the words, as delivered front the pulpit, And of which the Noble Lord hel favoured the Ilense with his notable version. The Noble Lord had told us that the clergyman said—" Stand ye up, my brethren, in the defence of those principles which our church pro feseeis ; bet which are °lapsed by our present Govern neeta".--inetead of which Isis real werils were, " such is the religion which our church professes, and which our 'Government upholds." The very same language had been tered by our reformers, when they purged this country from the errors of the Romish faith, and brought back the inhabitants to " seek for and walk in the old paths." He bad now explained the diffirence between the version of the Noble Lord, and the original language used by the Clergyman ; and he was astonished that any Nohle Lord should have come down to the House, and entertained their Lordships with such idle trumpery.—(Hear, !tear.) —He bad no doubt that the Noble Lord thought hie in formation correct; but the Noble Lord and himecif had hem many years sehool-fellews together, and he might 'have recollected, that school-boys had ready wits, and were fond or raising a laugh against their master and fel lows of the College. Tie Noble Lord might have recol lected that him young friends must have been aware for where taste they were catering, and he might have sus pected that the morsel was served up in the manner most aereeable t s his p late.—(Hear.)—lle (the Nebo!) of Gloucester) found no fault with these beardle-ts hut he could not so easily excuse the veteran politician. It was not worthy of the Noble Lord to censure a re enectable individual, and a respectable body of men, on "wit information. The Noble Lord hail shown a most egregious credulity (hear); for which he (the Bishop of Gloucester) could not account, except by supposing it to be the consequence of the most inveterate prejudiee, oref the eagerness with which the Noble Lord peized upon every scrap and morsel which ceeshi tell against those pe titioners who differed from himself on the Catholic Ques tion.—(Hear.)-11e thought proper to say thus much in justice to a body of men of the highest respectability, with whom he had been connected above 46 years. Lord KING said that the Right Rev. Prelate did him. but justice in saying that unless he thought the extract a true oee, he would not have notice:] it to their Lordships. He had it from what he conceived to be good authority. Considering the time at which it was pronounced, its lan guage, and to whom it was exclusively directed, there could be no doubt in the mind of any into that there was as much political as clerical feeling in the sermon. As to the beard. less politicians whom the Rev. Prelate had spoken of, if he would look at the petitions that had been sent to this House, he woold e find that the greater part of them were signed by beardless boys.—(Laud cries of " No, no," from all parts of the House.)—He was glad to hear from the Right Rev. Prelate that the Clergy hail discovered one error into which they hail fallen. They declared now that their religion was upholder by the Governm.-nt, though they told us befire that their religion was deserted by the Government. He only wished that their Lordships had heard the peti:ion to which the Right Rev. Prelate had alluded read. t'tht.t thought the petitioners would have doe well t• have veiled it in an oliscute latiguege ; for a piece of mere absurd balderdash never had been brought forward. The Bishop of NORWICH held in his hand a petition in favour of the Roman Catholic Claims, signel by a very considerable tumber of highly lespectahle Clergymen resi dent in 'he diocese of Norwich, whet* attachment to the Civil and Ecclesiastical Eltalliehenents of this country was as cordial as that profeseed by their opponents on this gues s . firm.' The petitioner's epula not bring themselves to think that the real teethetity - of the Christian Church could be ene elengered by acting on Chrieti elpt inciples, or that the safety of any civil government on the ewe of the earth could be hazarded by whiting in gomi-will and fellowship persons of all denominations and persnasione. In that opinion he cor dially concurred ; but it was. not now his wish to trouble their Lordehip* with his reasons for doing so, beca u se th e question has been so repeatedly discussed, that it would re quire littledess than inspiration to suggest a new reading, or to treat with an air of novelty the old one. He would, however, earnestly entreat their Lordships' attention fir one moment to a very Short extract from the writings of man of thelast century,hha man, who for piety Send learning, for moderation and practical wisdom, had never been star polled by the living or the dead. He alluded to B'shop Burnet.- That excellent prelate, in a charge to his clergy, has the folowing passage, which appeared to him .so peculiarly applicable to what was now taking plaee,_ that their Lordships would, he trusted, allow him to read. it : " Many opportunities," said Bishop Burnet,-." have hap pened since the Reformation, favourable to putting an end to our di.putes ; but if we again repeat our former errors, and let the opportunities slip awate—if the Church of England will hearken to the persuasions of sour end narrow-minded men, it will be abandoned both by God and 6tcn, and will set both heaven and earth against itself." Those were the words delivered - by the Bishop to the Clergy of hi* diet-toe, in order to point out to them that t.- eeeeoht it their duty to MIME with respect to the Protestant Dissenters of that time. The very same advice was now, in his (the Bishop of Norwich) judgment, applicable to those of the established church, who opposed, with ill-directed zeal, any further con CYSS_ ; 0114 to:their Roman Catholic fellow,subjects; or, in other words, who sought tu.continue those unwise,unjust,- and perse cuting disabilities and penalties which had been for so long a ,perirwl the reproach and disgrace of the age in which we lived.—(Hear.)—lle had also another petition to present from a numerous and respectable body of Unitarians in the town of Lynn, Norfolk, praying for the repeal of all disabilities on account of religious distinctions. He begged th at both the.petitions. might he read at length. Ti'e Duke of SUSSEX rose to state a circumstance re specting the petition just presented, which the Right Rev.. Viciate—who had, with a spirit so honourable to himsel', Supported the present petition, as well as former ones from the same body of persons—had from motives of delicacy omitted to mention. He was informed that nine clergy men, bezialm those who had subscribed the petition, wished to have their names added to it, but as their own signatures could not be obtained, the Right Rev. Prelate felt a delicacy about adding their names, lest he might not be strictly performing his duty in communicating to the House the opinions of those individuals as to the question of the Crthelic claims. He thought it but justice to the Right Rev. Prelate that that circumstance should be known.—(Hear.) CATHOLIC CLERGY. The Earl of WINCHILSEA said, it was not his inten tion to trespass long on the time of the House, in moving for the return of which be had given notice. In looki4 over the Journals of the House, be found that returns of a similar description, but much more extensive as to the number, hail been moved for in the years 1767 anal 1780, since wh:ch period no Parliamentary return (with the exception of a return made to the Committee ap pointed to inquire into the state of Irel and, of the religious establishments of the Roman Church) had bred made of the numbeteof the population, of the clergy, and of the religious establishments of the Raman Ch urc h within this empire.. It was to the two latter classes he wished the return he should move far to be confined. The ignotauce in which tile Noble Duke at the head of his Majesty's Government thought proper to keep the rept e sentatives of the people and the hereditary counsellors of the Crown, as to the provisions of the Bill intended to be introduixd for the removal of the disabilities affecting his M.jesty's Romin Catholic subjects, Mole it a matter of mere conjecture, at the time he gave notiee of the motion which he now rose to move, what the enactments of the Bill might be. He hail two reasons for moving for then returns—first, that the nation might know to what extent the power of the establishments of that intriguing and am bithaus body of men had increased within the last two years in this country. The power of that set of men, who had been benished from every ether state in Europe, had increased considerably within the last two years, and he believed that he should be borne out when he stated that one of their chief establishments had, not only in build ings, but that money to a great amount had been laid out in the purchase of property in the immediate neighbour hood. The great majority of the three adjoining parishes hail, he believed, been made proselytes to the opinion of that [scaly. (Heer. ) The second reason for his moving fur the return was this,—he believed it impossible, if the pro posed Bill should pass both Houses of Parliament, that the Roman Catholics could remain in the same situation as respected the established church as that in which they at present stood. If, therefore, it was contemplated to make in the proposed Bill, or in any subsequent Bill, any provi sion fur the Roman Catholic clergy, lie thought it ad visable that the peojs!e should know to what extent they were Heel) , to he taxed, in support of a church which they hod decl !red to he superstitious and idolatrous. The pro visions of the Bill for the removal of the disabilities affecting the Roman Catholics wet e now before the country,--it Bill which the Noble Duke at the head of his Olejesty's Go • vernment stated that, when known, would give satisfaction to the great body of Protestants. afford strength and secu rity to the Protestant institutions of the country, and tend to weaken the power of the Roman church in this empire. It was not his intention at present to enter into any diS ewmion with respect to those enactments which the Nol,le Duke proposes should stand in the place of those long- Isnown and well-tried safeguards of the Constitution, be cause he should have an opportunity of entering into that discussion when the Bill came before the Honer. But be feat confident, that when such opportunity was afforded him, he should be able clearly to prove, to the satisfaction of the nation, that a' statement so fallacious in all its hearings never before fell from the mouth of any states man. lie had now offered to the House the few °beer . - iaatinne which I.e had to make in support of his no tion. Perbeps it mieht—be - urge: that the character. principles, and views of modern Romanians differed very considerably from those by which it was anciently guided ; that though the power of Rannanism had in creased of late years in this country, yet such a return as he had moved for was unnecessary, because no danger was to he feared from the extension of the principles of the Remen church. To meet such an argument, if it should be adveneed, he would take the liberty- of quoting the opinions, not of a Protestant, but of a Roman Catholic writer. The writer he alluded to was an Italian gentleman ; and though friendly to emancipation, he had shown that those doctrines of the church of Rome which were thought oloolete by some, were still in existence, and he pointed out the danger and difficulty attending the conceding the Bottum Catholic claims in the present state of religion in this country, and mentioned the security which he, a Ro man Catholic, thought should necessarily accompany soy measure of emancipation.—(The Noble Earl here read a long extract from a work entitled " Catholicism in Austria," in which the writer contended that any measure liar emancipation ought to be gradual in its effects, and that part of its provisions ought to be the banishment of the Jesuits from the country. The writer also maintained that the church of Rome still firmly retained her oldest doctrines, and that all her actions were directed to the purpose of re-estaltlishing herself in the posses: otioe of that power which site hail lost.)—Th e Noble Earl then stated that it was his firm and heartfelt convictiote that if their Lordships were to retrace the pages of the history of this country, even in the most despotic timee, they wouhl find that the conduct which the Noble Duke at the heed of his Majesty'', Government hail thought proper to pursue on a iittestion which all admitted was to effect a change in the Constitution of the country, was more at bittary and more dictatorial than any act of any format' Minister. (Hear.) What were the words of hie Majesty's gracious speech at the commencement of the Session? His [Majesty gre ciouely recommended Parliament to take into its deliberat e consideration the whole condition of Ireland,. and that it shtmld review the laws which impose civil disabilities on his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects. " You will con. eider," the speech continued, " whether the removal of these disabilities can he effected consistently with the full and permanent security of our establishment in Church and State, and with the maintenance of the reformed re ligion, established by law, and of the rights and privilege* of the ... Bit:boos anal of tine Clergy of this realm, anal of the Churches committed - to thel charge." He would ark . tife House in what way the Noble Duke had allowed him and the rem tinder of their Lordships an opportunity ton bring their united judgment to the consideration of the extent to which these disabilities ought to be removed.— ( Ilear.)—As soon as the Noble Duke, and the other Mi nisters of the Crown, had taken them into consideraticn, and come to the cum:ln-ion of their inefficacy and inutility, they came down to Parliament with a Bill for their re moval. He could only say, that whatever line of conduct the Noble Duke might pursue, if he thought that this measure was to be carried either by secrecy, or be might say by stratreera--if he thought to carry those principles, by which he had excelled in diet profession, in woich he had reaped the highest honour, into his political character, anal on a question respecting which the constitutional voice of the country had a 'Oat to be heard, he would find that resistance, with which lie must ever expect to meet, Irma a high-minded people, who valued their liberty more than their existence.— (Hear. )—Having said thus much, he wished to make a few observations then, as another•op portunity might not occur for some time. A Noble Earl (Grey) had asked him on a former evening some guess tione, to, which he begged to be allowed to reply. The Noble Earl bad asked him what opinions .he entertained with respect to Parliamentary Reform ?—what he would do if the present Administration were dissolved ?show he vrou'd forma new one? and how he would tranquillize Ate' country if the Parliament were dissolved With re spect to, Parliamentary Reform, whatever doubts he might once have entertained upon that question, he confessed that late events had completely removed them. That Noble Earl would stand a bright—he had almost said (but God forbid he should say se)—a solitary—example in the pages of history, of honour, of probity, and of consistency, amidst the turpitude and inconsistency which had so long tarnished the character of so many of our politicians.__ Gild grant that he might humbly follow the Noble Earl in this course of honourable consistency; and he now told that Noble Earl, that whenever he brought forward a measure for Parliamentary Reform, he should have his most cordial .and -hearty support. long as the repre_ • • irritation of the country was in the hands of honourahle and independent men, in his opinion, no evil could be antici pated, but embervend 3 . but when hesaw what had b e en t h e coirloct of those who were possessed of close boroughs, when they inightbe able to patch up fortunes which had been broken and ruined by their vices—he had no hesitation in saying " let honest people have the representation which these have so grossly abused." With respect to the Fecund question, it implied a doubt whether, if the present aihnini stration were to retire, a new one could be formed of per sons who would advocate the principles which he and others, in unison with the great body of the nation, atf ro _ rated. It must be thought that the party to which he had the honour to belong had fallen low indeed in charac ter, in honesty, and in talent, if it were supposed that the places of the present Administration could not be supplied. Ile was far from supposing any thing of the sort. When knowledge had spread so far as it hid in these days, and when all knowledge was not confined to the hive of Popery, or to the countenance of infidelity, he saw no difficulty in meeting with persons who bad sufficient ac quirement to conduct the business of the State without striking, as the proposed measures did strike, at the funda • mental articles of the anion of the United Kingdom. He did maintain, that if his most gracious Majesty would be pleased to throw himself upon the good feelings and the good sense of his people, a sufficient number-of men of talent, of character, and of honesty—fur extraordinary eir catnstances hid ever produced extraordinary men, and so would these—would be found who would prove the pre s.irvers of their country. If an appeal were made to the people, such a return woulJ be made as would hinny that theme were men who would persevere, in spite of intimidation, in perform ing their duty to their God, to their King, and to their country ; and if such an adm;nistration as that which he had described were to be formed, they would neither be afraid to appeal to the people, nor to take such measures as would controul spiritual despotism in Ireland, and restore to it religious liberty, upon which, and upon which alone, civil liberty must depend.-- , -(llear, hear.)— . -Many other measures doubtless might be brought forward fur the bene fit of Ireland. Among t , thers, he weuld have it made com pulsory upon land-owners in that ccurvry to 'leave behind them, when they quitted it, a part of the property derived from the sail ; and he was sure that that portion would be amply repaid, in the heartfelt gratification which must re sult from the consciousness of having contributed to the h ippiness of a needy and miss' able people. At all event'', woal have their property made answerable for the acts of violence which were committed in many parts of the kingdom. He would merely say, in conclusion, that he hoped their Lordships would allow him to move " That an humble address lie presented to his Majesty, requesting that he would be graciously pleased to order, that there be laid on the table of the House an account of tint numbers of all the Roman Catholic Clergy in Great Britain and Ire- Zero!, distinguishing parochial clergy, titular bishops, &e. ; also an account of the number of all religious houses and seminaries under the conttoul of the Jesuits and other orders, specifying the names of such orders." The Duke of WELLINGTON, who once „it - 4o the House' sometime after the businees , had commenced, and evidently laboured under a severe Cold, rose and said —My' Lords, it is not my intention to make any objection to the production of arty documents which . can elucidate the points to which the Noble Lord has called your Lordship' attention.—(Hear, hear.)—But • I ntUst ob serve, that if the Noble Lord supposes' the Govern ment can give him any information upon the: subjects to which his motion relates, he cannot have looked very deeply into the Acts of Parliament which relate to those matters, either as they refer to this country. or to Ireland.—(l tear, hear. )—ln fact, from Ireland. there can he no return. If he will only look 'into the Acts of Parliament he will see that the Government can have no return of the Roman Catholic Clergy of any description If the Noble Lord will take the trouble of looking into the Acts he will find that though the Act of 1791 required the Clergy to register their names with the Governtnent,• yet there is nothing to show the numbers of those who may have been registered, who are now liritigeir who may be dead, or who may not have been registered at all.— Ueder these circumstances, though by looking through a variety of docurnents and repotts, and referring to e variety of transactions with belied, -we - may he able. to pro cure soma information ; yet it is positively- certein that we cannot make any returns such . as the Noble Lend : has moved for; yet every thing that can be done to.ass:st him, I can most positively assure your Lordships shall be done, thoueli I cannot answer for the arcutecy of the re turns, nor thetitmeetvehich they tart be pesoliieed.': }laving tail thus much respecting the immediateruhject of the Noble Lord's motion, I might, perhaps, sit down without making. another observation. Your Lordships .will not expect me now, in answer to what the Noble Lead has stated respecting the Bills pro need by my Right honourable Friend in the other Bose, to enter into a discussion upon them.—(Hear.)—My Lore's I retain the opinion, and I again re-assert the opinion which I stated respecting the Bills, when I had occasion to nvlvert to them Irene few nights ago. The Noble Lord says my statement was a fallacious statement. My Lords, I will. support that statement against the Noble Lord, or against the etate: anent of any body else, whenever those Bills come under the consideration of this House.—(Continued cheers.)— In the meantime, I think myself excused from entering further into the subject et present, or from following the Noble Lord through the extracts lie has read from a book entitled " Catholicism in Austria," and lately pub lished in this country, which, in some respects, is a valuable honk, but which has nothing to do with this question—in deed the author, in the only question which relates to this question, has shown himself entirely ignorant of the basis on which it rests •in this country. Well then the Noble Lord has loon pleased to refer to me,, and to say that I hive conducted myself in an arbitrary mane ner :in respect to this question: My Lords, I htlieve . I have done my duty as his Majesty's servant in concert with my noble colleagues. Having considered it for the intee met of this country, that this question should be considered, and decided upon in this Session of Parliament, I advised his Majesty to state what was stated in hie Speech on the first day of the Session. I afterwards, in conjunction with . my Noble Colleagues, and my Right lion. 'Friends in the other House, advised his Majesty to have those Bills sub mitted to Parliament, and with his Majesty's sanction and with his Majesty's support, (cries of hear, hear, hear,) and with his Majesty's support I have brought these measures forward. My Lords, I say, in doing that I have done that which became me as a Minister of this country—(hear, hear, bear),—and my celleaguee; in joining me, have likewise •done :that which became them in their duty as the Ministers of thie country. I did not go into a Committee of Parliament in order to seek for the sanction of the Committee with a view nebring forward these measures.—No! I come forward with them upon my own responsibility, and these measures in my opinion will tend to the benefit, to the happiness, arid to the tranquillity cf the country.—(Cbeere , )— The Noble Lord, following the example of a NAN Duke, has said; that I am going to introduce Popery and arbitrary power into this country'--I - deny the fact.—(Great cheering.)—l say let the measures be viewed on their own grounds. I say the religion - this country will not be changed one iota, - hut on the ee.trary, that the measures of that Act will _par ticularly tend to strengthen tt.e Protestant Constitillion, and will tend to remedy some of the very defects which the Noble Lord himself has pointed out ': the course of the epeech which lie has made to the House.—(Cheers.) — It is not necessary that I should follow him into the last part of what he has been pleased to state respecting a new. Administration. In announcing this Administration to your Lordships, he has I.rought forward two intentions, which will appear no doubt to be highly plaueible to the present Parliament,—one is the Dissolution of Parliament,—and the other, the Reform of Parliito meat. Now, I beg to inform him that I heartily wish he may carry those intentions into execution if he robs ulde happen to be my successor—(Laughter)—but I Call tell. him I have no intention to untlert Ike either the one or the ether, as my intention is to persevere in the measures to which I am already a party, not entertaining even the slightest doubt that by tad) perseverance, and with your LorcW.ips' support, I shall be able to carry. them to a final and happy end.—[The Noble Duke sat down amidst tremendous cheers from all parts of the House, which wee much crowded. A great numberof Commoners stood before the throne, and seemed to he highly delighted with the energy, spirit, and' high independence of the Noble Premier's speech. In fact, the whole House appeared quite electrified, as the reply of his Grace was undoubtedly as unexpected as it was magnanimous, - and becoming his decided character. The Earl of Winchiitea looked round in astonishment, while the Duke of Sussex - was con vulsed with laughter.] Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from the county of York, in favour of emancipation. Lord SUFFIELD presented a petition from a place in Somersetshire, signed by 364 of the respectable yeomanry of the place. Lord BEXLEY presented two petitions against the Catholic Claims. Lord KING presented petitions in favour of the Catholic Claims from Cievelaud, Yorkshire, and front Loughbo rough, Leicestershire. Also five petitions from Ireland, praying for the repeal of the Sub-letting Act. The Earl of VERULAM presented two petitions .against the Catholic Claims. The Earl of CLARE presented six petitions in faticur of •the Catholic Claim's from the :Counties of Clare e -Litneriek, - ! acd. Cork. TIE. V_Erl pr.nnist nrsamented a netition from ham against the Catholic Claims. It was signed by 36000 persons, and to above 20,000 of the signatures the places of residence were added to the names. He thought it necessary to state that the petition was voted at a meeting which was composed exclusively•Of persons opposed to the Catholic claimtn - ,..:The petition, however, was chore nume rously signed :him that - which was about to , be presented from the same place. Lord CALTHORPE did not deny the great respects -hility of many of the petitioners, nor did he deny that they were more numerous than those whose petition he should have the honour to present. This, however, was a sub ject urn which at least some historical and more political information was necessary, in order to form a correct judg ment ; and he was sure, therefore, inasmuch as the higher classes were more likely to possess such information than the lower classes were, that their Lordships would rather look to respectability than numbers. lie had now to pre sent a petition which bore the signatures of individuals, whose opinions on any subject were entitled to the respect and consideration of their Lordships. It was signed by a great many Magistrates, by six Clergymen, by thirteen bankers, by seven Dissenting Ministers, by sixteen medical gentlemen, including five physicians, by twenty-one bar risters and ;comities, a,.d by a great number of the most respectable merchants and inhabitants of Birmingham. As to inviting the co-operation 61 those youthful statesmen which were to be brood. in 'wish numbers in the charity schools of the . countey, the petitioners had neglected to do so—not because there were no charily sehoohaat Biratine ham, but because they thought the respectability of their petition would not be advanced by obtaining the signatures of those who, if they (swirl form any opinion upon the subject, must he looked upon as illustratiue rather of the race than of the march of intellect.—(Hear, and a laugh.) —ln such a town as Birmingham, when the public mind and feeling were highly excited, their Lordships ought to . exercise a very rigid :scrutiny as to the persons by whom petitions Coining - front the place were signed. He could not but persuade himsellthat the time, ere long, would, ar rive, when those who really and anximisly•desired to up hold the Church of England, would see that Ministers, in taking the view which they had dune of this question, had pursued the course best calculated to sustain the interests of the Established Church. Liy confounding religious te , nets with that which rendered the Catholic religion atone time incompatible with civil freedom—two things which were very different—by mixing these together great ob scurity had been cast over this question. But he believed, that ere long those who were now of a very contrary opi nion, would see Iliat the Noble Duke war fully justified in saying that he considered this to be a treasure for the sup port of the Church - of England..(Hear, bear.) —It was, therefore, with cordial satisfaction that he hailed this measure. The Earl of ELDON said, that no observation, no remark, no statement which any Noble Lord might make, should induce him to depart from that rule of conduct which he h hitherto constantly observed, in presenting petitions. He would not, while presenting them, - ewer into the question whether the measure proposed ley the Noble Duke -would be salutary or not—he would not, on such an eccasion, - enter on an inquiry of so extensiee a nature. He entertained, on - this subject, the most sincere and de cided opinion. After anxious deliberation on it—after having exercised the aemost attention with reference to it,—he had come toatiris conclusion, that the measures spoken of this night were utterly ieConsistent with the seen rity of the church of En:land.—(Hear.)The Noble Lord might support thOse measures ; but be should, most sincerely and btreminusly, but he hoped most fairly and openly, oppose them to the very last moment that such measures were discussed in their Lordships' ffouse.—(Hear.)— While he said this, he could assure their Lordships that the regard Whicir he feat for the Noble Duke, personally, • re- - Mained unshaken, although lie was the author of that, to him, most detested measure.—(Hear.) . The Duke of SUSSEX certainly had been requested to make e'rentark or two on this petition, as to the men trzr in whictrit had been got tip. Theinformetion which he had received he had communicated to his Noble Friend on the right, who had presented ; the counter-petition, and _who told hiM that the - person by Whom he (the Duke of Sussex) had been addressed xvits known his Noble Friend, and was a perfectly respectable man. • That individual had called his attention to -the manner in which the•petition wail got np, and it was this :—,pifferent pieces of parch ment were placed - in butchers' Mlirs' and bakers' shops, where . persons of all ages signed their names. • Boys" were placed at the turnpike-gates with similar pieces of parch ;merit, and lads as they came from school were called on to sign their names. , -in some into-Imes contrary to the wish and opinion of their parents ; and many of them signed for the - gratification of having their names placed on the tables of- the two Houses of Parliament. This was the statement which he ha? been- told to Make. To show how signatures were procured, be begged to. relate to the House an anecdote which he had learned from a Rev. Gentleman at Norwich. The Rev. Gentleman hay ing been informed that the boys at the National School had been dismissed an hour before 'their time, to enable them to sign the anti-Catholic petition, asked the master why h e h a d t i,•nc up those little boys to sign' the petition ? Oh," answered be, " because it will snake a great, a last • ins impression On their:minds." Ile would not prolong the di bate on the petition, but he thought it tight to state such facts as be was put in possession of. The Earl of ELDON, from the information he bad re-; eeived, had some reason to view the mattrr in a light en . . . tir e ly different from the Royal Dtike. The Noble and Learned Earl then presented petitions against granting any fat ther co, cessions to the Roman Catholics, front the mi nistets, churchwardens, and inhabitants of Iladleigh, in the county of Essex ; from the ministers, deacon*, and congregation of Cumberland-street chapel, Shortditch ; from the minister, churchwardens, and inhabitants of 3lontgomeryshire ; from the minister, church wardens, and inhabitants of Hadleigh, in the county of Suffolk; from the inhabitants of the parish of Ravenscroft front the minister, churchwardens, and inhabitanta of the parish of Isell, in the county of Cumberland ; from the. Protestant Dissenters of Stone, in the county of Stafford ; front a body of Welch Calvinist Methodists; from the o tentant Dissenters, distinguished by the name of Seceders, at New Mills, in the..county of Gloucester ; from the in habitants of the borough and sole of Doncaster, in the county of York ; front the clergy, gentry, and Mita bitants of Bolton and Biseombe, in the county of Lan caster ; fromi the clergy of the chapelry of Bradfield, in the county of York ; from the minister, church wardens, and ittbabitauts of Walton, in the county York ; from the inhabitants of the town of Calne ; from the inhabitants of Mexborough, in the county Of York ; from the inhabitants of Southweek, in the county of Southampton ; from the iuhabitants of the pa rish of Staines, in the county of Middlesex ; from the minister, churchwardens, and priticipil inhabitants of Stir fery St. Peter, in the county of Suffolk; from the inha .. bitants of Beauchamp Porten, in the county of Essex ; from the minister, churchwardens, an;l inhabitants of Alveston, in the county of Derby ; from the inhabitants of Whitchurch, in the county of Salop; front the inhabitants of Lockliwltn, in the county of Dumfries—they prayed that in ) ; 'Lea - Alice which - might be intiodiiiied might net interfere with that part of the articles of Union with Scot land, which say.. , , that neither the electors our the elected, in Siodand, shall be Roman Catholics ; from the inhabi toms of Sheen, in the county of Surrey; from theinha hitant: of Patel:tureen], in the county of Fife ; and from nine other places. The Earl of CA RLI ALE pr. se .ted a petition in favour o f the Catholic Claims, flout a place in Y rkshire. The Marquis of ORMONDE presented a petition from t he Itomau .Catholic inhabitants of a parish in the county .6f..Kilkenny, in favour of the. Catholic claims. The Duke of RICHMOND was -anxious to take this opportunity to say a few words with reference to what had I fallen from a Noble Earl ON inehilrea) in the eirly part of the evening. Ile did not agree in all that had been said by that Noble Earl.„. lie agreed with him on one point,— name ly, that great dangei was apprehended from Catholic - emancipation ; but he wished not tribe understood as agree ing with the Noble Earl in his-opinion on the subject of reform. He should feel it 'to be his-duty, as a Peer of that Houk., to give every possible opposition to the mess sures noW in progress, which, iii - his opinion, were de cidedly hostile t 9 the best interests of the country—(hear, hear )— r and ;le trusted that his opposition would be found manly, fair, and open. (Hear, hear.) He would not call to his aid, in opposing the Roman Catholic claims, any other weap , n hut regular Parliamentary praetice—(hear, hear). —and he could assure the House that he wiAked it . moat particularly to be understood, that if these measures, unfortunately in hisripillion, should be carried in the Hou-e of Lords, no man would be more anxious than himself to se e them produce a good effect; and no man would feel greater gratification than he should do, if lie found they a nswered the expectations which has been formed as to their effic.tcy. 13ut he felt conrineed, that if, unhappily, the Noble Duke should gain the victory on this occaiiori, he would, for the fitst time in his life, be compelled to de plore the PUMAS: The Earl of FALMOUTH considered the measure pro ' posed by the Noble Duke as pregnant with great evil to the country. If he could for one moment think otherwise, he would not oppose the measure ; for he had ' no party f e elings to indulge—he had no cause - to incite 'him to re- , venge- If, therefore, he thou4ht that those measures, would operate in the henrficial manner in which the N,,ble Duke supposed. ha should not Persist in his opposition. , But he did persist, and he would to the last persist, be cause be believed that the measure would, sooner or later, occrsion the ruin of this country. Tire Earl of ELDON observed, that in 1815 many do cuments Were laid before their Lordships relative to those Roman Catholics who had taken the benefit of the Acts of 1791 and 1793. Now he should like to sec similar ac counts at the present time. If they had the necessary ma terials, they could see how far the Roman Catholics had taken the benefit of the Acts of 1791'and 1793, and how far they had complied with the conditions on which those benefits were conceded. Ile wished likewise to point the attention of the House to the distinction between the oath in the Art of 1791 and the oath in the Act of 1793, for the purpose of ascertaining whether tl►e Roman Catholic under the one Act bound himself to the same allegiance as he did under the other. The English Act of -1791 called on the Renrin Catholic to swear allegiance to the succes sion to the throne under the Act of Settlement—that suc— cession being . limited to the Princess Sophia of. and the hens of her hotly "being Protestants." The other Act—the Irish Act of 1793—unless his memory de ceived him, called on the Roman Catholics to swear alle giance to the succession in his' Majesty's fam , ly, omitting the words " being Protes . ants." On this subject he should m ike a motion on Friday, for which day lie moved that the. Lords should e summoned. " Lord CALIIIORPE presented a petition fro►n Bir mingham for the removal of the disabilities which affect the Roman Catholics. The lilatignis of ()MONDE presented petitions in fa vour of the Catholic Claims from Castle Comer ; and also from several parishes in the county of Kilkenny. Adjourned at a Quarter after Seven. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(LAST NIGHT.) The list of Members who were absent at the Call of the House on Thursday last was called over, and those now absent were ordered to attend on Tuesday next, except those specially excused. Mr. BYNG presented a petition from the Vestrymen of the parish of St. James's, Westtnin.ter, praying that the petitioners who hal signed the petition aglinst them might be called upon either to abandon or snake good the charges. —Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. WILSON presented seven petitions from places in the county of York, against further concessions. Sir It. YYVYAN presented several petitions from dif ferent parishes in Cornwall, against the Catholics. Lord A. HILL presented two petitions from tie county of Down in favour of the Catholics, and from the parish of Killmore in favour of the Catholic Claims and against the Sub letting Act. . Lord LOWTHER presented several petitions against the Catholic ChtiMs from the Diocese of Carlisle and other places. Mr. ASHHURST presented two similar petitions; Sir J. BRYDGES presented a similar petition from Bridport. A message was received froM the Lords requesting a copy of the Report and Minutes of Evidence furnished last Session by de Select Committee, on the subject of Anatomy. Mr. VANE, presented two petitions against the Catholics. Mr. O'NEILL presented a petition against the Catholics from Hull and its vicinity, and also from Sutton, York shire. lle observed that it was signed by 7,6-IS persons. When the six millieni of Irishmen were Spoken of in this House it was seldom recollected that a great proportion of those millions were women ond children.—(Hear, hear.)—As women were not admittod to sign petitions, it was hardly fitir that their numbers should he mentioned to influence political measures. No person had signed these petitions who was under the age of IS, and no pau per or primmer bad been allowed to sign it. Mr. SYKES complained of thosepersone, whom lie could call by no other name than incendiaries, who had by every rneans in their poWer inflamed the minds of the people against the Catholics. If it hail not been for the judicious interference of some well disposed persons, the peace of the town of Hull most have been broken, as the mob were - parading the streets with a black standard, of course for the Catholics, and a white one for the Pro testants. He deprecated such practices and believed that if fairly taken the opinion of the people of finll was in favour of concession. Mr. C. PELHAM made a few observations which were inaudible. After a few words from Mr. O'Natt.L, the petition was ordered to be printed. Sir"C: 1311ARELL presented re petition from the palish of Kirkwall in Surrey, against any further concessions to the Catholics. After a few words from Mr. SYKEs, the petition tvt.s ordered to he printed. TUITE presented nineteen petitions, from districts in Westmeath, in favour of tie Roman -Catholic claims. The Hon. Member condemned, in strong. terms, the manner in which Anti-Catholic petitions had been got up in different parts of England. Ile had also to find fault with a speech published in the Newspapers, and in pamphlets, and attributed to a Learned - Sergeant, who ranks high at tl.e Irish liar, and who was actually acting as Judge, on one of the Irish Circuits. The Learned Gen tleman, in addressing one of the Primswick Club Mert-• ings, was made to say that the inlovations about to be made in the Constittition %vete sufficient to deprive the King of his Thron and to absolve his subjects front their allegiance.—(Hear, licar.)-This was language which he V.uught not only improper but unconstitutional. lir prayed that the petitions be brought up. Colonel ROCHFORT made a few obst4vations which were inaudible in the gallery. After a few words from * Mr. Moott.T. the petitions were ordered to be,printed. CATHOLIC CLAIMS, Secretory PEEL brought tip a Bill for the !Wier of his Majesty's Roman Catholic Subjects from the Ihrahi lities moler which they at present labour. The night Hon. Gentleman was cheered by the House when the name of the Bill was read. Mr. PunAm rose to make an observation, but was Mandible. Mr. Secretary PEEL was anxious to take that oppor tunity of stating the course he meant to pursue. As it was the understan- . ing last night th it the Bills were to be introduced that evening, without discussion, he thought it advisable that as little time should be lost as possille.— (Hear, hear.)—lf this Bill, and the other with which be meant to follow it up, were allowed to be read a fit st time, and printed, he thought he coull undertake that the y should be in the bands of Members in the course of to• morrow, and the Bills might be read a second time on Tuesday next.—(Hear, hear.)—By adopting this course, no Hon. Member would he pledged to any particular course with resptct to the principle of the onv measure or the other. Sir E. KNATCHBULL thought that the more conve— nient plan Would be to postpone the discussion until the second reading. The Bill was then read a first time, and WAS ordered to be read a second time on Ttieloky next. FORTY:SHILLING FREEHOLDERS. _ _ Mr. Secretary PEEL brought tip a Bill to amend the laws made by the Parliament of Ireland, relative to the Elective Franchise. On the question that the Bill be read a first time, Mr. C. PELHAM said a few words, which were alto gether discussionio us to give f both -t but if that interfered with the St. Petrick's Cbarity,which s o rpiAl'rr.t. o p portu nity furie ‘ l % tj lera u yi PitrlE : : : :gd p La r il e ml. : ev e rpa n ysi t .i t fi ai X : them fur Tuesday next, took place on that day, it would, perhaps, be debit ah!e,to change it. Lord MILTON had conversed with several Irish gen tlemen on t h e subject, and they thought that the 17th of March . Wilda he a proper day for such a discuassion. Ile h o p e d, therefore the day would not be . cliiinged. Mr. PALLMER wished to know, if the discussion of . . both qtystume count be expected to Came on t h e same day? Mr. Seeretary PEEL said, that it would be inconve nient to fix the second reading of both. Bills for Tuesday next; but if the discuesion of both could not conveniently COme'on- on that day, he wonld fix the di , cuesion of the second for the first convenient open day. After a few wet& from Mr. MoOre, Lord Duncannon, Mr. Henry Grattan, and Mr. Peel, it was fixed that the second readings of both Bills should,for the present, stand for Tuesday, next. Mr. LENNARD presented a petition from the Manu facturers, . Engineers, Inventors,. and Artists of Malden, praying for a revision of tke Laws relating to Patents. Mr. LENNARD ,also presented a petition front Ips wich, in favour of the Catholic Claims, which the peti tioners thanked the Duke of Wellington for being about to settle. • Mr. CAWTHORNE presented a petition from the town end neighbourhood of Lancaster, against the- Ca tholic Claims. Air. T. GREEN bore his testimony to the respectabi lity of the signatures attached to the petition. Mr. B. COOPER presented a petition from Chelten ham and its vicinity against the Catholic Claims. The petitioners expressed their just fears as to the consequences of concession. The petition was signed by 4,300 persons, among whom was a majority of the Magistrates, the Arch deacon and beneficed Clergy, and four Dissenting Minis ters. The Hon. Member also presented a petition of a similar kind from the inhabitants of five di&rent parishee in Gloucester. 111 r. GREEN pre,enteil a petition from thy inhabitants of Lotulmlale-North, against concessions to Catholics. Lcrd S I'ANLEY said that when the Hon.. Member rose to present this - petition, he felt considerable anxiety, from which, however, be was released by observing the quiet manner in which the Hon. Member had presented it. He believed the petition itself spoke of consternation, con tuition, awl dismay, (a laugh) being spread through the country on account of the intended measures regarding the Catholics; but the Hon. Member, from his quiet manner, did not seem to suffer front any of those alarming feelings. That there was a number of men highly excited upon the Catholic Question in that district, he hail no doubt ; but from his own knowledge of the district, be thought he might say that that was not generally the case.. The de. Free of excitement to which he had alluded was proved by the fact that the principal part of the petition wwit the ex pression of a teish that vain and wicked men might be re moved from before the presence of the King.—,(Laughter.) . There was a co: tain Rev. Parsonage in the neighbourhood, who, on a former oceasion, when this question was under discussion, having been invited out to dine with a friend,l who was a Magistrate in the neighbourhood, sent an eirs cure because he thought that during the prosecution of mist important and momentous question like this, it was not proper to go out to dinner any where —(Hear, 114 laughter.)—He trusted that that Rev. Gentleman, note: that the measure was so near its accomplishment, would feel the necessity of abstinence of this kind more stronglt than ever, and would not only refuse to go out to dine with a neighbour, but would betake himself - entirely to faaring awl prayer.—( A laugh.).—He believed that this petition Lad been hawked about from house to house, and that it hail been carried among - the men working in the' slate quarries, but with little success; and that out of .a population of 5,000 only 30 persons had signed it. Mr. GREEN could not but observe, in reply to his Noble Friend's statement regarding this petition, that as there was a great number of signatures to it, and as it was the third w hich he had presented from that part o f the country, there was a strong feeling there against the mea sures now proposed. Sir F. BURDETT should say nothing against the pea _ • ti' ion, as he had a great respect for the right of petitioning at all times, hut he wished to observe, that there were pe titions on the other side of the question; and that on Thurs. , . day night he should present the petition from the Catholics of [reboil. Sir G 11. SMYTHE had five petitions to present against further concession' , to the Roman Catholics. He had ne wish to detain the House with any observations on this sub ject, but lie must be permitted to enter his protest against the indecent haste with which this Catholic Bill was abottt to be pasied through the Howie. Mr MICHAEL ANGELO TAYLOR could not un derstand what the idon. Baronet meant when he spoke of there being indecent haste in getting this petition through the Howe. He was net aware there had.been any haste •‘ in the matter. The measure now proposed •had been' ler years discussed, and than which. they were called - on Le adopt was a plan which gave securities that were impreg nable, and which proved that there was, on thepart of the Government, a praiseworthy desire to heal all the anima sities of Ireland. It wee the existence of those animosities that was most to he feared—not the measure that was to remove them. They were told that the supporters of this.' measure might look thrward to the General Election with anxiety ; for that they wonld find they had displeased their constituents. He might not live tosee that day, but if he did, he should be able to say to his constituents (if the Bill pissed into a law) that he had assisted in a great work of Christian benevolence and Christian charity. Ha must say, that when he saw from the Clergy of the coun try such great quantities of potitione .against this measure, that those who signed them ned those who brought them forward did not seem truly to understand the nature ' their religion. . . Mr. D. W. II ARVEY.saiti his Hon. Colleague was at least a plain spokeu person ; and as he thought the Go- e! vernment would not yield the question, so be also appeared to think that at an approaching (election the country won't/- not for2et the course a.lopted by those Members who had - - bctraeed their. trust. He knew not whether his ,lions Colleague alluded to him (no, no, from Sir H. Smythe); hut fur himself lie would say, that if a dissolution of Pare - linment should take place to-morrow, and the excitement should be so great as to be attended with the loss of their ' seat to any who supported the measure, he should never- , thelees give his vote in its favour.—(Hear, one canlil say that he had; . hetrsyed his trust; and if his ' constituents, that is, those who had voted for him, would , - is a letter sianed by the majority of them, living apar t those other matters on which they had agreed with / 34 UP call on him to resign his seat on account of his vete'en this question, he would not wait the approach of a Geneva Election to carry their wishes into effect—((he a rs.),.. lh. would never hold a seat on any other tenure, than thAt of freely exercising his own judgment on all matters that might come before the House,—(Cheers.)—He wished to tike that opportunity of explaining something that ()centred the other night ; and the mistake connected with whi ch was one among the many proota of the inconveniences ( an incidental debate. He had stated that this measu re did not contemplate to confer ell the advantag e° which by a more extended arrangement might have bee n secured ; and lie apprehended that the want of that sort of arrangement would leave many sources of dieconteer among the people or Ireland, and woull disappoint the Government in their belief that this measure would insure the tranquillity of Ireland. lle had stated that one of . the most 1 uiilnl sources of complaint that would 001 re main, would be loon 1 in the present state of the Church Establishment of Ireland, and that no measure was calcu lated to do exteosiva good, unless aconnpaniel by wane - plan to t..ke inter coosideration the eccleeiast'ell revenue of the two count ice. When he had made these state ments, an Hon. Gentleman near hied had assumed a tope which he certainly hail no right to assume, and haul taken or, himself the office of Parliamentary Lecturer of these whase opinions did not harmonize with hie views. Il e required ne such admonition as that which the Hon. Mem is r had bestowed, for that Hon. Meinher had protested against the remarks which he (Mr. Harvey) had mad e ' and hail said that he would oppose the Bill if he though t it was calculated to affect the revenues of the P .i°ll , Church. He (Mr. Harvey) thought at the moun t that the boldness of the assertion furnished no wea k ., proof of its insincerity ; and ho thought also, that It be referred to the Records in which the proceeding s of that Hott.e were preserved, they would shew that that Hon. Member bad once entertained a differen t opinion In 1825, a Motion had been made by him for a review of the state of the Ecclesiastical Revenues. llosir he meld support such a Motion, and yet afterwards state' on this occasion, that belch! so different un opinion, mu st be left to his ingenuity to explain. lie begged thift ue Hon. Member would pursue his own course, and not give advice to others. His object was as independent al th 3 . t of others. lie bad a right to make this explainition,he, cause, though he did not rank among the most ardent o f the friends of the Church, yet he was a warm and since re . supporter of the Eitablietfitiente :aid thought thatall were should use their utmost exertiors to pees this Bill . Mr. SPRING RICE said, after the direct alluciort which had been made to him, the House would excuse hint if be took the liberty of making a few remarks in reply t° the observations which liad just fallen from'the Hon. Diem ' tier. They would remember that these observation* had been made after due deliberation by the Hon. Member for Colchester, who might better, and more convenientli; W a g made them at time time. The Mon. Member had adepte the office which he bad been blamed for assuming , '" namely, that of Parliamentary Lecturer. In the {rut inetance, he would appeal to the House whether the whole course of proceeding of the lion. Member was not e precisely th at of reading a lecture? If the• stater near of that Hon. Member was true, and he (Mr. Rice) ha` i. • really taken on himself the office of reading a lecture, he o A u l l e d rri a l p re p r e L , :i h Co air l i c n h g ee n te o r a w n le it t i h o - e n T o t' a p cl ers u o i n re to i zli t e l ; , sup port. The Hon. Member had varied altogether id t", statement lie had made ? if he had only made one fernier, occasion the statement Which he had now madeehe (Mr" Rice) would not, have quarrelled with it; but what sial the statement he had then made? Why that he support e " ie t he , h. cl l l , i ed insthoaft r t a he ea Ca .n t r l e ial w ould trail to a c i as he Roman Catholics and Dissenters, and others, 'for the Pnt.:a. oti d n i :i i o n n etleYi . pose of making a combined attack on the 'Establish e t: Church of Ireland. He was unwilling to refer to iv, had taken place on a former occasion ; but if what pa _ then was to be brought against him, he thought the Kea° would allow him also to refer to 'it against the l E l °' Member. If it was on such groan& that the Hole itlenea bet's vote was to be given, lie (Mr. Rice). as an individuals ' atteched as ha had been, even from his childhood, to the' cause of the Cetholics, would rather see the Hon. Mem ber, oppose the measure, than see himself exposed;' lie would n ot sly to the disgrace, but the inconvenience of such euprrt'. , Ile (Mr. Rice) had always been ready to acquiesce r°' a' motion to inquire into the state of the Irish Church , Tri t , regard to their leasing preperty—with respect to .thwdat'!'e feel utiun of tithes—and with respect to educationalico i riveted with the Irish church. But if the Hon.' 11fereiteL ,could chew: him 'lMr..ltice) that. Imbed acquiesced la' sanctioned any deterntination of the sort. wl,ich , that,He°, Meinher had protested in the late debate, - he would say the, he had never desired nay such thing. The two queetiool