The Sun. — London, England, 1860-05-05 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS--(YEsTERDAy.) The LORD CHANCELLOR , took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Stockton and Darlington Railway, Stourbridge Rail• way, Bourton-on-the-Water Railway, Widnes Gas and Water, and Hinckley and Leicester Railway Bills were read a second time. The following bills were read a third time and passed : Gsdashiels, Innerleithen & Peebles Railway, Lower King's Ferry Road, Glasgow Corporation Water, Norwich Cor poration Markets, Cannock Chase Railway, and Manches ter Improvement bills. CHURCH RATES. A great number of petitions against the abolition of church rates were presented by the Bishop of Winchester, and by the Earl of Ducie, and Earl Spencer, in favour of their abolition. NAVAL RETURNS. The Earl of HARDWICK gave notice that on an early day he should move for certain returns relative to the con tractors, the prices paid, and the seaworthiness of certain ships. LLANDAFF :AND CERNTON DISTRICT MAR. KETS BILL. On the motion that this bill be read a second time, Lord CHELMSFORD objected to the bill on account of the serious inconvenience it would occasion to the inhabi tants of the districts to which it referred. The noble lord spoke at some length upon the fact that the bill proposed to deal with a great part of the parish of Wroath, which had been exempted from it when the promoters of bill first obtained their powers, and he hoped their lord ships would think that he had established a case that the present bill was a violation of the principles upon which legislation was founded. Unless the promoters of the bill satisfied him that that part of the parish of Wreath to which he alluded was to be excluded from the bill in com mittee, he should object to its being read a second time. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY supported the bill, and thought all the objections of the noble and learned lord could be dealt with in committee. The Earl of SHREWSBURY said he had been asked to support the bill. He thought the proper place to dis cuss objections would be in committee. He did not think the promoters would have any objection to amend the bill so as to meet the views of the noble and learned lord. After a few words from Lord Redesdale, Lord Wensley dale, and Lord Chelmsford in reply, the bill was read a second time. ORGANISATION OF THE INFANTRY. Lord LUCAN then rose to call the attention of the house to the present state of the organisation of the in fantry. The noble lord said, as the subject of our national defences had excited so much attention, he had felt it his duty to bring the present subject under consideration. Great stress had been laid lately upon the importance of an effi cient navy, but whatever might be the effect of such a pre caution, the public safety demands an effective army. Notwithstanding the efforts of the Duke of Wellington, there was not that organisation of the infantry that could be desired, and this state of things continued for 30 years. At the time of the Crimean war, the new regiments that had to be sent out arrived in so inefficient a state, that he (Lord Lucan) had to write home to Lord Hardinge, and ask him not to send over new regiments, but to add men to those already in existence. Lord Hardinge thereupon very properly ordered that no regiment should be sent abroad without having a depot. The Duke of Wellington had thought it essential and necessary that a second battalion should be added to the infantry, and he (Lord Lucan) thought that a great mistake had been made in not acting upon the duke's opinion. He believed that the Minis ter for War had taken credit to himself fur having increased the strength of the companies, instead of which he ought to have added second battalions, which the late Duke of Wellington thought essentially neces sary. Within the past few years the battalions in the field had been increased from eight to ten, leaving the depots at home with only two companies instead of four. He could not comprehend the reason of this alte ration. In objecting to this system he believed that he was only expressing the sentiments of the whole army. lie be lieved that the present plan struck at the very root of the ,regimental system—a system which had been found to be admirably efficient. At present both privates and officers were obliged to join their depots and remain there a consi derable time before joining theii regiments. This was a very costly system. A regiment might be in the same town with its depot, as was the case with the 10th Regiment at Davenport, and yet the only communication between them must take place through the Horse Guards. This very in juriously affected the regimental system, but he had a still tronger objection, and that was that under the present pl a n a young man entered a regiment where the command ing officer was known to his father, perhaps; but, instead of joining that commanding officer, and having the advan tage of his counsel and superintendence, he was sent to the depot, here he found a number of mere boys, got into debt an(l difficulty, and perhaps his prospects for life were ruined. It was suggested that their lordships' house was not quite the place to discuss this important subject, but he felt that he sh.ould be failing in his duty, considering the long time he had been in the army, if he had not availed himself of his privilege as a peer of Parliament to bring the questien forward. (Hear.) He therefore hoped the subject would not be lost sight of, and he thought it was one in relation to which a commission ought to be appoint ed. r Earl DE GREY and RIPON must confess, after hav ing listened to the speech of the noble earl, that it appeared to him that the subject which the noble and gallant earl had brought before their loniships was one of so strictly military a character, that this was not quite the place to discuss it. He assured the noble earl that if he had made any suggestions to the authorities at the War Department on the subject, they would have been received with all the consideration due to so important a subject. (Heat.) He did not think it would be right in him to prolong the dis cussion, and ho would merely say that if any question re ferring to the interests and efficiency of the army should be brought under the consideration of the War Department, it would be received with the greatest consideration. The Duke of CAMBRIDGE entirely agreed in all that had fallen from his noble friend who had just sat down, and he ventured to say it would have been more regular if the noble and gallant general had, in the first instance, submitted his plan to the consideration of the civil and mili tary authorities at the War Department, instead of first submitting them to that house. (Hear.) The army, as it at present existed, was in a very efficient state. Th 43 present system, he begged to say, whatever might be its state, was in existence when he became Commander-in-Chief. The noble lord relied very much on the Duke of Wellington's opinion, and certainly it would be very imprlper for hitn or any other military man, to stand up against an opinion of that description ; but he had yet to learn that that was the Duke's opinion. He was aware that they had depots in the Duke of Wellington's time, composed of six companies. That system was established in 1824; but he was not aware hat the Duke of Wellington desired to extend that system. He (the Duke of Cambridge), however, had had some personal experience of the [system. He had for five years commanded a large district in Ireland, and in that district there were more depot battalions than in any other. What was the result ? A more lamentable and deplorable system he never saw. He never heard any officer say he ap - -- proved of that system, though ho might approve of a double battalion system. Let them see what that system was. The last time that the system existed was in 1853, and Lord Har dinge, the then Commander-in-Chief, when the Crimean war broke out, then altered it. A regiment consisted of ten companies, divided into two parts. Six companies formed the service companies, and went abroad, and four companies formed the depot companies and stayed at home. The ser vice companies were composed of 25 officers and 540 men, and the depot companies consisted of 14 officers and 310 men. If those 310 men were all efficient, perhaps some thing might be said for them, and it would be well; but they were most inefficient. The refuse of the corps who could not go abroad were left there, as well, also, as the re cruits. He had made inspection after inspection of the de pot companies, but he seldom saw more than 150 men on parade at one time. Thus, they had a regiment consisting, so far as the service companies went, of 25 efficient officers, and 540 then, and the depot companies, consisting of 14 officers and 310 men. What was the ease now ? They had now a regiment comprising 950 rank and file. They were divided into two portions ; ton companies formed the service companies, and two were depot companies. They had ten companies composed of 37 officers and 895 rank and file. effi cient, whether at home or abroad, and ready to go anywhere at a moment's notice ; and they had at the depot six officers and an average of 192 men. Consequently, it would be found that whereas in 1853, there were 10,000 men at the depot while the service companies at that period com prised only 19,701 men, so that one-third of the whole were at home and inefficient, and two-thirds were abroad, they had in January 1860, 63 depots con taining 12,999 men, and 50,495 in the service companies, all efficient men, and ready to do duty at home or abroad. He must say the noble earl was not justified in saying they kept efficient men at the depots, the fact being that they kept the service companies in as complete a condition as possible. The noble earl said he objected to depots alto gether. Ho ('be Duke of Cambridge) wished they could get on without them ; but in their scrvi,..e it was quite.im possible, their army being scattered all over the world, they could not do without depots. The noble earl said, why did tie" ) , not send the men out to the service companies. What, were they to send out to the service companies inefficient men? The commissioners fur the reorganisation of the Indian army, when. referred to, said, "For God's sake don't sent us out untrained men; send trained men ;" and he (the noble duke) said the same. They never sent a man out of bite country who was not thoroughly trained and who had nog : undergone a complete course of instruction. The sys tem was better than sending men out like so much bag gage—a dozen at a time in a ship. The Duke of RUTLAND said there was one point of great importance to which he wished to call attention, though it had not been raised by the noble earl. He al- laded to the volunteer system which had been established in this country. lie wished to speak of that system with the greatest possible respect, and thought that the patriotic ' spirit shown by the people, when danger was apprehended from a neighbouring Power, was beyond all praise. But what he feared was that the volunteer system should be allowed to supersede the regular and established army. He found that the miliiia was not to be embodied, and thal the yeomanry was not to be called out for training. While they were doing this they were increasing the danger by resort ingto a system of direct taxation; and, year by year, any Government that might be in power would be under almost it resistible temptation to fall back upon the volunteer corps in order to relieve the public purse. The institution was a most valuable one, but he hoped it would be always kept up as auxiliary to, and independent of, the regular army. The Earl of LUCAN having replied, the subject dropped. PAWNBROKERS' ACT AMENDMENT BILL. This bill was read a second time. TRUSTEES AND MORTGAGEES, &c., BILL. This bill passed through committee. SALMON FISHINGS (SCOTLAND). The select committee on Salmon Fishings (Scotland) was nominated on the motion of the Duke of Newcastle. The house adjourned at 20 minutes past 7 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.-(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a third time :—Commercial Docks Acts Amendment, Finn Valley Railway, Milford Haven Railway and Docks. The North Eastern Railway (Extension of Time, &c.) Bill was considered, and ordered for third reading. INDIA. Sir S. NORTHCOTE gave notice that, on Monday next, he would bring under the notice of the house certain changes received by the East India Government, and also the appointments made in India by Government from 1854 to 1860. APPOINTMENTS IN IRELAND. Mr. CONNOLLY gave notice of a motion relative to re cent appointments in Ireland made by the Lord Lieutenant, particularly that of Mr. Lyle. CANAL COMPANIES. Mr. BEAMISII asked the President of the Board of Trade whether it was intended to renew the Act of 1858, restraining canal companies being also railway companies from leasing canals ? Mr. M. GIBSON answered in the affirmative. BERWICK ELECTION. Members were appointed to confer with the Lords in order to agree with them in a joint address to the Crown to issue a commission in regard to the election proceedings at Berwick. After a considerable delay the hon. members returned and _Mr. F. PEEL announced that the address agreed to by the house had been delivered to their lordships for their consideration. JAPAN. On the motion that the house at its rising should adjourn till Monday, Mr. COCHRANE asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what steps had been taken by her Majesty's Government to protect our commercial interests in Japan. He contended that our policy in regard to the Japanese was very injudicious, and that we had fallen into the same error that we had done in respect to China. The proper course would have been to have ap pointed a resident minister et Japan. At present affairs were in a most unsatisfactory and critical condition, and Mr. Alcock had stated that sinister rumours were afloat that a general massacre of foreigners was contemplated in Japan. While this country was endeavouring to cultivate friendly relations with the Japanese, that people had despatched a vessel to the United States, offering to the people of that country all the facilities for commercial intercourse which we desire. This state of things, in his opinion, was pi oduced from ignorance on our part as to the mode in which we should deal with the Japanese. It was desirable that we should strictly adhere to treaties, and act towards the people in question as if they were civilised beings, and not savages. MINISTERIAL EXPLANATION• In reply to several question, Lord J, RUSSELL—After the various questions that have been put to me I will not enter into a discussion with the hon. member for King's County as to the general policy of her Majesty's Government in Italy. (Hear, hear.) The first question is in relation to our commercial interests in Japan. Since the papers which have been laid on the table were received, other despatches have reached this country of great interest and importance. In forming new commu nications for trading with a country where trade has been hitherto almost unknown there have been unavoidably very considerable difficulties. One of those was the state of the currency in Japan. While the proportion in value of gold to silver in this country has been as 1 to 15, or thereabouts, the proportion in Japan was as Ito 5. Therefore it must evidently be a very profitable business for British met -chants or their agents in Japan to obtain a quantity of silver, and with that silver to purchase gold and ex port it. This trade naturally excited a good deal of apprehension and objection on the part of the Japanese Government. However, I am happy to say that that government has taken a sensible course upon the sub ject, and has made the relative proportions of gold and silver the same as have been adopted generally in European countries. There have been various other occurrences, and more than one, I am sorry to say, of a very tragical nature. For instance, the murder of Limbird, the servant of the British mission. He was a native of Japan, and having passed several years in the United States, he was master both of the Japanese and English languages. His conduct, it seems, provoked a great deal of animosity on the part of the Japanese, and he, on his side, when assailed by them, was not slow to retort, and thereby very strong feelings were excited. The consequence was that, one day, as he was standing close to the door of the mission house, two or three persons came upon him and stabbed him, and instant death was the result. Of course this excited great indignation amongst the English, and Mr. Alcock in sisted upon the assassins being prosecuted or given up. The intercourse was interrupted , there by ; and when the last accounts came away, Mr. Alcock, while representingthe difficultieses very great, and chat apprehensions of murder and massacre taking place still existed, yet expresses a hope that the difficulties will be overcome, and that the trade will be resumed. At at the same time it should be stated that that trade has been almost entirely in Japanese products, in return for silver exported. It does not appear that there has been hitherto any similar demand, or indeed any demand at all, for British manufactured goods. That was the case when the last ac count left. As to the protection of British interests, there are, of course, ships on the station; but as they cannot come within fuur or five miles of Yeddo, they cannot be on the spot when required. But whenever the admiral is able to spare ships I have no doubt he will give that protec tion which British subjects require. I quite agree with the honourable gentleman, that we must be very careful on our part, that none of the clerks or agents of British merchants should commit offences against the laws or customs of the Japanese ; and unless care is observed in this respect, we cannot justly complain of the outrages committed upon us. The next question, put by Sir H. Cairns, relates to the claims of British subjects on the Brazilian Government. There have been complaints, as he truly says, of great delay in the settlement of those claims. But the fact is that there appeared from the side , of Braail an immense number of counter claims, chiefly founded upon slave-trade transactions, and being complaints on the part of those who had conducted the slave-trade be tween Brazil and Africa, of interruption by British cruisers and vessels to their nefarious traffic, great difficulty was found in disposing of those cases. The British commis sioner said that they did not come within the convention, upon which the Braailian commissioner immediately‘aid that he would not proceed with any of the British claims, and thereupon the commission was suspended. The Bra zilian representative at this court was lately asked to have the commission renewed. But so much difficulty having occurred with regard to cases which I think ought never to have come before the commission at all, and they having occasioned so much obstruction, I thought it right to place the whole question again before the law officers of the Crown, that they might advise me as to the best course to take. The papers were sent to the law officers of the Crown a week or a fortnight ago; they are now under their con sideration; and the case being ono of very great difficulty, I cannot at present tell what will be the result. The next question is by an hon. baronet (Sir J. Acton) in regard to the dispatches and reports of our diplomatic agents at Rome. The diplomatic agent, so called, at Rome, is not properly a diplomatic agent. but only an attache, and therefore his dispatches can hardly be looked upon as diplomatic reports in the absence of any regular diplomatic relations with the court of Rome. There are such dispatches from 1852 to 1858 and I will endeavour to see whether there are any which will throw light on the hon. baronet's inquiries. But our informa tion does not entirely depend upon the reports of diplomatic agents; because there have been published from time to time, and circulated in the provinces of the Roman States, documents which did not immediately concern the Govern ment of Rome, and have not been reported to us by our agents. For instance, for a considerable time Bologna was in the hands of the Austrian army, and all the criminal jurisdiction of that province was conducted by Austrian offi cials. That of course had nothing to do with the general conduct of the Roman Court. The hon. gentlemen opposite (Mr. liennessy and Mr. Bowyer) scent to think that I have some very particular objection to government by the Pope. I beg to say that for the personal character of the Pope I have very great respect. I believe that he is a most bene volent mau ; and a book written by an hon. member of this house shows that, with regard to parts of his Government, nothing can be more kind and charitable, or more strongly show kindness of heart, than the conduct which the Pope pursues. (Hear, hear.) But there are other essential parts of iris Government, such as the administration of justice more especially—(hear)—which concerns every subject in Rome, and upon which I do not say that the present Pope, but the ecclesiastical government in general, is, in my opinion, ill calculated to secure the benefit ,of the people. As I am a member of the Church of England, I cannot ap prove of the government of the Pope; but, notwithstanding ' the great respect that I feel for the Archbishop of Canter. bury, I believe that if her Majesty were to offer the go- THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, MAY 5, 1860. vernment of the county of Kent to the Archbishop of Can terbury it would be the worst governed of any part of England. (Hear, hear.) It is not, therefore, from any prejudice against the Pope as an individual that I disap prove of his government. At the same time I confess there are feelings belonging to Roman Catholics to which I as a Protestant could not join. A friend of mine, whom I very much respect, has written a pamphlet, in which he says that the taking away of the Romagna from the Pope is not only a spoliation and a robbery, but a sacrilege. (Laughter.) I have no doubt he states the opinions of the Roman Catholics; but they must not expect us Protestants to think that there is any sacrilege in depriving them of the government of the Pope. There is also this to be said with regard to the desfitches written by Mr. Russell. Both the Pope and Cardinal Antonelli were in the habit of speaking to him with the greatest fairness and openness respecting the affairs of their own Government; they always said— "As you are not a regular diplomatic agent we can speak with less reserve to you than we should if your character were strictly official." That is a reason why I should not produce to Parliament everything that he reports of those conversa tions. (Hear, hear.) A question was also asked respecting our conduct with regard to Naples. On this subject it must be borne in mind that the conduct of the Neapolitan Government to its subjects may bring on complications which may be of the greatest consequence to Europe. (Hear, hear.) It might bring on an armed interference on the part of some neighbouring powers to which we could not be indifferent. But there is this to be said—that the Ministers of the King of the Two Sicilies have from time to time communicated with us in a manner which shows that they have a reliance, and a very just reliance, upon the friendship of the British Qovernment. For instance, on one occasion there was a report that General Garibaldi was going to Genoa, that ships had been armed there, and were about to proceed to Naples. The Government of the King of the Two Sid lies immediately applied to the Government of her Majesty to endeavour to stop that expedition ; and I lost no time in applying to the Sardinian Government, and asking them if they had authority over General Garibaldi (and he Fuss then holding the commission of the King of Sardinia), not to allow that hostile expedition to proceed to Sicily. But when we are asked to perform acts of friendship, I think it is but fair to say to the Government making the applica tion :—" If you wish that there should be no insurrection in Sicily, and no foreign interference, you must conduct your Government with such justice, and according to such acknowledged principles, that discontent may not arise among your subjects." (Hear, hear.) When there is friendly intervention on our part, I think it is fair that we should tender our advice. That is the course we have pursued, not to threaten them with in terference, but not to conceal the opinion—l do not say of her Majesty's Government, but of men of every party in this country, with regard to the necessary tenour of some of the acts committed by the police and the Government of Naples. (Hear, hear.) Another question has been put with respect to Mr. Cobden, a member of this house. I have stated formerly to the house that Mr. Cobden was last year in Paris as a private individual, and that he had a great dealof private communication with the ministers of the Em peror of the French. It was supposed that that might lead to a treaty ; and Mr. Cobden was then regularly invested, just as Mr. Eden, a private individual and moreover in op position to the Government, had been in 1786, with the au thority of a plenipotentiary, so far as regarded the commer cial treaty. Mr. Cobden has now gone to Paris as one of the commissioners to carry out the 13th article of the treaty with France. There are three commissioners, Mr. Cobden is the first ; with him are associated a gentleman belonging to the Board of Trade, and one belonging to the Board of Customs. I took whatimins I could to select the persons most•fitting for this duty. Ido not believe that any three persons could be found in the world who are acquainted with all the de tails of that question of converting ad valorem duties into specific duties ; but I believe that they are the best persons to treat with the French Minister of Commerce. It is a specific matter ; they do not act as plenipotentiaries ; but if any, convention has to be formed, Mr. Cobden will be asso ciated with Lord Cowley in that convention. The hon. gen tleman says very truly that the British Government ought not, for such a service, to depend upon the volunteer efforts of any person. There is no salary granted to Mr. Cobden ; but as he is on a special mission it is proposed that his ex penses, while he is en that special mission, shall be defrayed. Tha only other question put to me had :reference to the Chinese expedition, namely, whether orders had been sent out to stop the expedition from undertaking any operations until the arrival of Lord Elgin. There is no truth what ever in that report ; on the contrary, it is very desirable, if there are to be naval and military operations, that they should be performed before Lord Elgin arrives there; so that the responsibility of these operations may not be placed upon him. (Hear.) THE TREASURY. In reply to several questions, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he would first address himself to a question put by an hon. gentleman (Mr. Hennessy) about two hours ago, in refe rence to the Customs Board. This question involved three separate subjects. With respect to Mr. Ogilvie, who had been selected by the Board of Trade to assist Mr. Cobden in the revision of the French tariff, the hon. gentleman asked—" Whether Mr. Ogilvie was employed by the Board of Customs in getting up the prosecutions for alleged frauds against the various dock companies ; whether he assisted in the revision of the British tariff which had just been abolished, and whether any. reports or statements of Mr. Ogilvie with respect to the wine duties would be laid before the house ?" As to the first question, he would observe that for all those prosecutions the Minister of Finance was responsible, and he understood that Mr. Ogilvie had no connection with them. With reference to the question re specting the wine duties he had to state that there were no papors in existence which answered to the description of a " report" made by Mr. Ogilvie to the Board of Customs. On inquiry he found that there were some memoranda on the subject of the wine duties, but it was quite contrary to usage, would be inconvenient to the public service, and would prevent confidential communicationsin future if such papers were laid before the house. Of course hon. members were well aware that there was a difference between private memoranda and ,those reports which constituted formal documents prepared for the information of Parliament. As to the question of the hon. member for Wiltshire (Lord Thynne) with respect to a report as to the time when the reduction of the wine duties would take place, he was obliged to him for putting the question, for he was of opinion that such a report would be injurious to the trade. There was no foundation for any such report. Her Majesty's Go vernment had no experience of the probable working of the new wine duties, as they could not come into operation until Parliament had passed a measure to that effect. With re spect to the National Gallery, he had made inquiry on the subject, and ascertained from the proper authorities the state of the building, and found that there was no means of ventilating it except by opening the windows. If the building were to be regarded as one of a permanent cha racter, some other means might be attempted,:but hon. mem bers were well aware that such experiments were rather costly, and , should not be lightly undertaken. (Hear.) THE SERPENTINE. Mr. LOCKE asked the First Commissioner of Works what steps he had taken, or was about to take, in regard to the ;report of the committee upon the purification of the Serpentine. It appeared, he said, that the sum of £14,000 had been expended out of the £17,000 which had been voted. When the time came for the right hon. gentleman to make his statement, he (Mr. Joseph Locke) would have to express his opinions on the subject, and he would ask did they think the people out of doors would be satisfied with them so spending £14,000 out of £17,000 in the manner in which it had been done. One scheme was proposed by one gentleman, and then another gentleman comes forward and upsets that scheme. Whatever might be the opinion of the house, he thought there should be some change in the de partment which had charge of this matter, and that the hands in which that department was were not competent to discharge their duties. Mr. B ENT INCK thought the time was come when these jobs out of the public purse should be put an end to. Here was £14,000 which they had been fooling away, and the question was, would the people sanction such schemes. In his opinion, such expenditure ought to be met by a metro politan rate, and he hoped the house would have its atten• tion directedlo this point. • Mr. COWPER said, the question they had to consider was, the best mode of purifying the Serpentine. The plan proposed last year appeared to be captivating, from its novelty, more than for its merits, as the object to be ac complished was the clearing out of the mud from the bottom of the Serpentine and pouring in fresh water. When he came to consider the plan officially, he shared the opinion which was formed by eminent engineers, as well as others, that however ingenious the scheme might be the plan could not prove to be satisfactory. At the time that the scheme was before the house he did not ap prove of it, but having respect to the vote'of the house) , he did not wish to make any alteration in the scheme without giving the house an opportunity of expressing its opinion upon it and being consulted, and with that view he thought the object could be best arrived at by referring the sub ject to a select committee. That committee was very fairly constituted, for parties were so nearly balanced in it that their proceedings were anything but unanimous. The result of that committee was a recommendation that it was desirable to abandon the system of filtration, and get a supply of fresh water. He had, therefore, ordered the removal of the works for filtration, and, in the first in stance, consulted with Mr. Simpson on the best possible means for removing the foulness at the bottom of the lake, and he had selected Mr. Simpson, from his great eminence as an hydraulic engineer, and from his knowledge of the spot, and his connexion with other works that were going on in the immediate neighbourhood. He (Mr. Cowper) did not believe that filtration would deal with the srigin of the evil, because, the water, when filtered, would be liable to the same defects, for the vegetable matter grew after filtration, with redoubled activity. Ie had therefore an nounced to Mr. llawkesley that his plan of filtration must be abandoned, and that a supply of pure•watcr might be had from a well at the head of the present works in Ken sington-gardens, which would produce % daily supply of half a million gallons from a tertiary sand of a very pure character. The engine intended to facilitate. filtration , would be employed in pumping the water from the lottom of the lake, passing it through conduits, and they would establish a current from one end of the lake to the other, which would prevent the accumulation of mud by the continual motion of the "water. In addition to this, arrangements of an ornamental character were contem plated by throwing the water into a basin in Kensing ton-gardens, by which they could have a large cascade to throw the water to a considerable height. He thought when the works were completed that all the money which they would cost would be deemed to be spent in a satisfac tory manner. The hon. member (Mr. Bentinck) had ex pressed it as his opinion that the expenditure should be met out of rates which had no existence. Those parks being Royal parks, were properly supported out of the public money. They were, no doubt, connected with the metro polis of the whole nation, but they did not come strictly ;within the meaning of being altogether of a local character, (Hear, hear.) Sir J. V. SHELLEY said it was no fault of his that so much money had been fooled away, as he was of opinion that the scheme of filtration was avisionary plan. The hon. baronet then referred to the proceedings before the commit tee, and said he was of opinion that the proposed ornamen tal arrangements would convert the place into a kind of tea garden, which he did not approve of. Mr. BLACKBURN agreed in the opinion which had been expressed by tho hon. member (Mr. Bentinck), that the whole country should not be taxed to pay for those im provements in the Parks. _ _ _ Lord PALMERSTON said the scheme which had been suggested in the first instance was, that the plan for cleans ing the Serpentine should be the same as that which had been adopted in St. James's Park. That plan, however, would have involved an expense of £60,000, and his late right hon. friend had been led to believe that the plan of filtration would keep the water in a state of sufficient purity, and only cost £16,000. Under these circumstances, and placing confidence in the opinion of Mr. Hawkesley and others skilled in matters of the kind, he did not feel inclined to vote for the larger sum. Lord JOHN MANNERS begged to set the noble lord right. The sum calculated for the plan of the late Go vernment was not £60,000, but £30,000 or £32,000, and instead of adopting that plan, the Government of the noble lord took up this new-fangled scheme of filtration, which was found when it came to be examined by the select committee to be one that really would not hold water. (Laughter.) The moral of the transaction was, that a Government coming into office should not be in such a violent hurry to upset the plans of their - predecessors. By so doing great waste of public money was often, as was the case in this instance, incurred. (Hear, hear.) The motion that the house at its rising should adjourn to Monday was then carried. DUTIES ON FIRE INSURANCES. Mr. H. B. SHERIDAN moved for leave to introduce a i bill to amend the law relating to the duties now chargeable on fire insurances. After apologising to the house for tak ing upon himself to bring under its consideration so large a question, the hon. member proceeded to say that he feared the present aspect of the house justified the information which ha had received, that an attempt would be made to " count out" the house, but he warned the house that a question of such great magnitude, relating in fact, to every dwelling-house, nay every build ing in the kingdom, was not to be treated with levity. (Hear.) His proposition was, that when the premium for insurance should not exceed ss. per cent. the duty should be reduced from 3s. to ls. per cent. The existing revenue from fire insurances was £1,300,000 a year—a sum not dif fering much in amount from the paper duties, which were so lightly treated in the financial statement of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer. (Hear.) Many insurances were effected at premiums far higher than ss. per cent. Some ran from £1 to £2O and £24 per cent. In fact he knew an instance in which 26 guineas per cent. had been paid for insurance against fire. With regard to all those risks more than ordinary hazardous he did not propose to deal with them. The duty of 3s. per cent. did not effect these in surances. The duty was not prohibitive. But when the premium was under ss. per cent. the matter was altogether different. His proposition would not affect £870,000• of the existing revenue which was derivable from the duty of ss. and upwards per cent. paid non insurances. He only proposed to take off two-thirds of the remaining £430,000; but this deduction would be much more than supplied by the duty of Is. on insurances not now effected at all owing to the burden of the duty of 3s. It had been cal culated that £3,000,000,000 worth of property in this king dom, including shipping, was insurable. On that property insurances were at present effected to the extent of only £900,000,000. There therefore remained £2,000,000,000 of property that ought to be ensured, and that would be en sured if the duty which at present operated as a preventive of insurance were relaxed. Insurances had not increased as the national property had in this country. As compared with France we were very far behind. In France an amount was insured of fire insurances, as compared with which the 'amount insured in this country sunk into insignificance. What was the reason ? It was because the Government of France encouraged insurances by every means, whereas in this country it was the subject of heavy taxation. The policy stamp in France was very small, while in England it was extravagantly large. (Hear) The French offices were, in comparison with our own, bat modern establishments ; but in respect of the vast amounts insured they were far ahead of us. There were various descriptions of insurances in France which were utterly unknown in this country. Railways there insured against accidents and the damage they might do to the goods of other persons. In France where a tenement was burnt by the negligence of a neigh bouring tenant, or of a lodger, or his servant, the person who who was the cause of the ac:.'ident, or his master, was liable, but they commonly insured against such contingencies. The Seamen's Home, which was burnt at Liverpool re - cently, was only insured for £lO,OOO, but that amount was utterly inadequate to restore the Home. An attempt had been male to insure . English p i roperty in French institu tions, in order to avoid the enormous duty levied in this country, but an act of Parliament was quickly passed to pre vent that, so that our paternal Government would neither themselves encourage this description of prudent provision for the future, nor would they allow others to do so. Sup pose that lemma were to form themselves into a mutual fire insurance, and that every man was to insure for £l,OOO, but before they could be allowed to do that, each hon. member must pay to the Government £2,000 for the privilege of do.- ing so. That would represent the state of the law as to fire insurances. Why should they tax those who had the fore thought to insure, and not tax those who had the impru dence to neglect the precaution ? The hon. member at considerable length exhibited the oppressive nature of this tax. Why should the tradesman and mechanic be charged 3s. Per cent., while the farmer was let off? (Hear.). It was difficult to see the justice of charging the rich man Is. stamp , duty on a policy, say of £2,000, while if 200 working men insured property amounting in the aggregate to the same sure, they would be charged stamp duties amounting to £lO. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving for leave to bring in the bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that the hon. member complained more than once of the empti nebs of the benches, and threatened hon. members with the most serious consequences when next they appeared on the hustings. The hon. member made a speech of a most skil ful description ; but when he complained of the indifference of the house to a question of such importance, he must re mind him that the house generally judged of a measure from the circumstances under which it was placed before it. He would not enter into the question, 'whether the duty ought to be levied or not, but he would remind the house that the hon. member did not propose a substitute for the existing law, which, if altered, would have tie effect of deducting from the revenue a sum of not less than £400,000. Now, that was a sum which the country could not then afford. The hon. gentleman said that the repeal of the tax would be a great increase to the revenue; but when was that to take place ? It might occur before such took place ; but that was a principle which must not be applied to every case. He said, look to the postal duties and see the result to the revenue. But what was the fact ? Twenty-one years ago thd postal duties were lowered to a mere nothing, and yet the revenue at the present time didnot amount to more than one half,of what it was then. Did he mean to say that it ought not to have taken place ? By no means, for the ad vantage it conferred on the ceuntry was more than a com pensation for the loss of revenue. The hon. gentleman said that this was an affair of £430,000 ; and now he would give the gentlemen on the other side an opportunity for a sheer. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman said, " You have been dealing lightly with the paper duty," but if they had been dealing lightly with that duty, and if they had given it away, that was no reason why they should repeat the im prudence in this case. (Laughter.) The hon. gentleman, however, in the face of that, said nevertheless, " You should give up those £130,000." The hon. gentleman told them that there were two thousand millions of property in the country which were uninsured, but a more vague, a more uncertain assertion 'could not be. They had, in fact, no certain data to go upon. Undoubt edly there might be a large amount of property uninsured in the country. The hon. member had referred to Mr. Coode's statistics, but a more careful, thoughtful, inquiring man than Mr. Coode could not be. The question now was as to how £225,000 was to grow into a state to supply the £430,000 to bo withdrawn. The fact was the property must increase threefold to put the hon. gentleman in a condition to begin to fulfil his promise, and the hon. gentleman must begin the increase in the first year of his operations. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was not arguing here now upon the merits of this duty, but he was arguing as to how they could best make up so as to meet the deficiency. Tho hon. gentleman promised a great increase in the re venue by reducing the duty from 3s. to ls. What then was the increase that had taken place in the descriptions of in sured property which was subject to duty? In 1834 that property amounted to £483,000,000; in 1856 it had in creased to £802,000,000, that was, it had increased in 22 years G 5 5-6ths per cent. The exempt property had in creased in 22 years 67 and 1-sth per cent., while the non exempt and burthened property increased 65 5-6ths per cent., or a difference of one and one-third per cent. That broke down the case of the hon gentleman, and there was a total and ruinous collapse of his statement. (Laughter.) The hon. member referred to France, and said that whereas only £900,000,000 of property was insured in England there was as much as £1,800,000,000 insured in France; and he argued that if they diminished this duty the amount of the duty would increase as it had in Vance, pto the hon. gen.- Homan had answered himself. Almost all the property in England was insured below its value; but in France, from the peculiar construction of the houses, every t enan t o f a _ _ floor or flat was hound to insure his:neighbour's property as well as his own, and the hon. member had himself said that property in France was insured three or four times over. :e did not hesitate to say that the hon. gentleman's calcu- lations' were open to the greatest objections; and he (the Chaneor of the Exchequer) contended that no course could be adopted of gaining property in one year at the ex pense of what could be clone in another. They sometimes repealed the timber duties, and sometimes the wine duties ; they might have great transactions to go :hrongh, but in no case did he know it to be done ;hat the cost of one year was to be made up by another. Here there were commercial arrangements to be shaken, and when duties were to be dealt with they ought to be dealt with with caution. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentle man said that the duty would increase threefold if his plan were followed out; but if he were right in some parts of his argument, still he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) must say there were still fatal objections to his speech, as delivered in 1860—a speech which, if the hon. gentleman had reserved it until Feb. or March,:lB6l, would perhaps give them immense information and instruction to judge of the proportion in which the increase might take place. He must say, and truly own, that there was some reason for complaint upon a subject of this kind. The noble lord op• posite smiled ; but ho understood that smile. The noble lord, however, would admit that no great changes should be made except in cases where the interests of trade required it.. He hoped ho had expressed himself clearly to the house on this subject, and that the house would not accede to the motion of the hon. gentleman ; and, undoubtedly, he would in conclusion say that, so far as her Majesty's Government were concerned they would give it their most decided oppo sition. (Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) Mr. MALINS said there was one consolation, that the right hon. gentleman had not only made a most vehement speech, but decidedly the best speech against his own " budget" that had been made that session. (Laughter.) The right hon. gentleman used the same arguments on the present occasion that he used in a former session against the repeal of the paper duty. Mr. GLADSTONE (warmly)—The hon. and learned gentleman is mistaken. I consider, in candour and in fair ness, that if any hon. gentleman makes a statement con trary to fact, it is right to assume that he was in error, and that it was proper to put him right. I did not make such a statemwt as the hon. and learned gentleman states in Mr. MALINS—The right hon. gentleman has become excited ; but whether it was last year or the year before that he made such a speech, not havinibrought " Hansard" into the house, he could not say; but this he knew, that in this very session the right hon. gentleman made a speech in favour of repealing the paper duties, which, notwithstanding his arguments, he had not yet succeeded in repealing up to the present time. (Hear, hear.) He had a very distinct recollec tion of tho views expressed by the right hon. gentleman against the repeal of the paper duties, and it did not matter whether they were expressed last year or the year before,since he had now come forward and declared that he was bound to repeal that duty in deference to an abstract resolution of the house. In the vote he was about to give in favour of the motion of the hon. member for Dudley, he would do so, not because of any so-called threat of losing his popularity with his constituents—(a laugh)—because upon that, as upon all other questions, they left him to the unfettered exercise of his own discretion—(cheers)—but because he intended to record his opinion that this was a duty which ought to be reduced ; and as the right hon. gentleman bad felt himself bound to defer to the opinion of a majority of the house so recorded in the case of the paper duty, he hoped that next year, or as soon as the revenue would afford it, the right hon. gentleman would act in the same way with respect to this tax as he had done with the paper duty. He would not support any further progress of the measure at present, but believing its object to be a just and a proper one, he would cordially support the motion. Mr. F. CROSSLEY differed from the hon. and learned gentleman in thinking that the paper duty weighed more heavily upon trade and the public than the additionalpenny in the income tax would do. He thought also that the tax on fire insurance was not the worst we had, though he would like to seeit reduced. But he could nbt consent to the proposal of the hon. member for Dudley, under which an assurance for 4s. 11d. would cost la., while an assurance for ss. would be charged 3s. At the same time he quite con curred in the opinion that as soon as any Chancellor of the Exchequer found himself in a position to deal with this tax he should do at the earliest possible period. Lord C. HAMILTON said that he, in common with the house, acknowledged the power of eloquence possessed by the right hon. gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and his ability to make the worse appear the better reason, but he must say the greater part of his speech that night had been devoted to the purpose of showing that the prin ciples of taxation he unfolded in his speech on the budget this year were entirely fallacious. (Hear.) In fact he de cidedly condemned his lwn financial scheme. (Hear.) He could not comprehend how the right hon. gentleman could have brought himself to the pint of almost rebuking the hon. member for Dudley for enunciating the same Principles as himself had so often declared in that house as to the reduction of taxation increasing revenue. (Hear.) He had recommended the hon. member to make his speech again bodily in 1861. Might he (fiord C. Hamilton) ven ture to recommend that when the Paper Duty Bill came on again, that he should repeat bodily the speech he made against the repeal of that duty on a ferinee occasion. (Hear, hear.) If it was wise, sound policy, sound morality to reduce the taxes upon french kid gloves, foreign wines, and foreign luxuries, which were mainly consumed by the richer classes, surely the motion of the hon. member for Dudley had a paramount claim on the support of the house, dealing as it did with the interests, the daily interests, of the middle and working classes„ Lord C. HAMILTON urged that it was due to the arti san to reduce this most obnoxious tax. Mr. BAXTER thought that, as an expression of opinion, the house ought to permit the introduction of the bill. Sir M. PETO asked for an assurance from the Govern ment that the subject should be taken into its earliest con sideration. The subject should be dealt with at an early period. The law could not be allowed to remain in its pre sent state. Mr. CONrNGHAM, who spoke amid loud cries of " Divide," said that, although favourable to the abolition of this duty, he should be unable to support the introduction of this bill, more especially as by the speeches delivered on the opposite side of the house an attempt had been made to convert it into a vote of censure on the budget. The paper duty wal not repealed to oblige a member of the Govern , meat ; but because its repeal was a measure of great public advantage. The house divided. The numbers wore— For the motion .. , , .S 4 Against Majority —24 Leave to bring in the bill was therefore refused. EMB4NJMENT OF THE THAMES. Sir J. PAXTON, in rising to move for a select committee on thissubject, said that whoever had watched the thorough fares of London for the last 30 years, mast have remarked that they were gradually becoming impassable. It took a longer time to go from London-bridge to the Great Western Railway than- from London-bridge - to Brighton, or than from the Great Western Railway to Oxford. The improve ment of the thoroughfares in the country had, been con sidered so important an object that if half an hour could be saved in a journey of 509 miles, millions of money were spent to save that period of time; and yet people who lived in London and who made an engagement at the west end could not keep it unless they gave themselves half an hpur more than would be necessary if the thoroughfares were in a proper condition. Some years ago a great scheme for improving the entire communication of London was brought forward, which would have remunerated the parties who proposed it. The matter was submitted to a committee upstairs, but it ended in a blue-book. The embankment of the Thames would give great relief to those who wished to pass from the west-end to the city. It was not a new question, In the year 1824 Sir F. Trench proposed a plan for embanking the Thames in front of Tem ple-gardens. A select committee sat, but nothing came of it. In 1842 a Royal commission was appointed, which was pre sided over by Lord Lincoln, now Duke of Newcastle. They examined into the thoroughfares of London and the•em bankment of the Thames. They planned out 10 miles of new streets, but, with the exception of Cannon-street and a few small improvements, nothing came of that commission. The bill was not discussed till the following spring, and the matter again dropped. The year 1845 was remarkable for the number of railways that were then projected in all parts of the kingdom, and this subject was not taken up till 1854, when a committee of that house inquired into the best mode of opening the metropolitan bridges to the public. That in vestigation only ended in the production of a blue-book, as did also another inquiry instituted in the year following. In 1855 the Metropolitan Board of Works was established, but it had not yet done anything with regard to the great arte rial thoroughfares of London. That board was, however, now carrying on a general system of drainage, and had in hand the construction of high-level, mid-level, and low level sewers. If those plans were executed there would be no open communication between the west end and the city for the space of two years ; affd the carrying away of ma terials from the tunnels for conveying the sewage would create a serious nuisance in the principal thoroughfares. The scheme of Mr. Bazalgette for taking the low-level sewer along the bank of the Thames was concurred in by the late Mr. Stephenson; but, owing to the difficulties it encoun • tered, it was afterwards determined to take it along the Strand. It was the more important, therefore, that the sub ject of the embankment of the Thames should now be taken into consideration. Various plans hitherto framed for that object had been opposed by the wharfingors, but if the com mittee for which he now asked were granted it would. be shown that the execution of so magnificent a metropolitan improvement;so far from injuring, would much enhance the value of the property of the whard.ngers. Moreover, the railway companies now proposed to cross the Thames with their lines ; and the question of the embankment of the river mast he Settled before those companies obtained their hills, otherwise it could never be carried out. The population of Lowlon liacl inereaml betweeu the years_lBll and 1851 from 1,138,000 to 2,362,000 ; and in 1861 it would doubtless reach close , upon 3,000,000. The total number of persons who passed., in and out of the metropolis last year by the various termini was upwards of 30,000,0001 and, although many of them travelled for only short distances, it was manifest that in going to and from the railway stations they must enormously swell the traffic in the crowded thoroughfares of London. He believed the Select Committee:would report in favour of the execution of this great work, and then would come the question of the means to be provided for that object. The Metropolitan Board of Works proposed to expend on the making of the low-level sewer a sum of £221,000, and that would, of course, form part of the embankment scheme. The Board of Conservancy of the Thames were also most anxious that the undertaking should be accomplished, and were willing to consider whether a portion of the re venue to be obtained from reclaimed land might not be ap plied to that purpose. In his opinion this was not a local but an imperial question. (No, no.) Hon. members might say " No," but he put it to the house whether the saving of time to the vast numbers of people who were in the habit of passing to and fro in London which would be effected by this scheme was not a sufficient reason why the Imperial Exchequer ought to contribute to its execution. Large grants were made for the improvement of various ports in the kingdom, and he did not see why there should not also be a grant for improving the navigation of the Thames. In order to carry the sewage of the metropolis down to Bark • ing Creek a large quantity of water would have to be with drawn from the Thames, and the embankment wouldthere- fore be required to pat the river in a proper condition for the purposes of navigation. The embankment would be extremely valuable in a sanitary point of view, both by supplying a fine public walk and facilitating the cleansing of the river. The hon. baronet then moved for a select committee to consider the best means of providing for the increasing traffic of the metropolis by the embankment of the Thames. (Hear, hear.) Mr. COWPER thought the house would have no objet • tion to the motion of the hon. baronet. (Hear, hear.) It did not require any argument to show the necessity of free communication between Charing-cross and London-bridge. No one who had driven in a carriage along the crowded thoroughfare of the Strand and found himself compelled to go at a walking pace instead of a trot could fail to under stand the serious nuisance caused by the obstruction of the route, and the consequent loss of time. It was gene rally admitted that an embankment would be of advantage to the navization of the river, but the threatened stoppage of the central traffic of the metropolis during the construc tion of the low level sewer along the Strand and Fleet• street, undertaken by the Metropolitan Board of Works, rendered it very urgent that the committee should proceed to consider this subject immediately. He looked with the utmost apprehension to the danger that might be incurred, during the formation of this sewer, by the valuable build ings along its route. It was to pass very near to tie foun dations of Somerset-house, and not far from the foundations of St. Paul's Cathedral. The great weight of the latter and the character of the soil on which it rested afforded a strong reason why a committee should at once be appointed to con sider what ground there was for apprehension of danger to that magnificent structure, and why the Board of Works should have an opportunity of abandoning their plan for a sewer below the chief thoroughfare of the metropolis in fa vour of that which made it the basis of the proposed em 'bankment. (Hear, hear.) lie believed it was possible to construct the embankment in such a manner as would tend greatly to the improvement instead of to the deterioration of the pi operty by the side of the river; but of course the va rious plans for this work and their bearing upon the rights of private individuals would be important points for the con sideration of the committee. Another question which would demand their attention would be the fund from which the expense of any of these operations was to be defrayed. He must altogether demur to the allegation made by his hon. friend that this project could be deemed in any way an im perial question. It appeared to him more entirely local than almost any other that could be mentioned. (Hear.) It was geneially held that street improvement and works of drainage were especially local matters, and if the hon. baro net expected to get any money from the public exchequer for the execution of this embankment ? it was to be feared he would by greatly disappointed. It was desirable that the manner in which local taxation could be made available for this purpose should be considered by the committee. The Metropolitan Board of Works would no doubt be ready to contribute largely, as far as the sewer was concerned ; and it might be found that some other form of local taxa tion might be resorted to, in consideration of the general benefit to be conferred on all parts of the metropolis, It had also been suggested that private enterprise would aid in the completion of such a work, A portion of the em bankment, for example, might be set apart for an omnibus tramway. For these reasons he believed the committee would answer a highly useful purpose. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BLACKBIJRN thought that the establishment of the Metropolitan Board of Works would have relieved the house from a discussion of local questions of this kind, which would properly form the - subjeet of - a private bill. He consented to the committ,..,e, how ever, on a distinct understanding that 'not a farthing of the public money was to be 'spent "in carrying out the scheme. In order to venr:ie all doubt on that score ho begged to move " l'.ll amendment that these words be added to the motion :—" And how these funds are to be provided from the district benefitted." Lord J. MANNERS could not support the amendment of his hon. friend, because it would absolutely prohibit the committee from reporting in favour of applying the coal duty towards the construction of this great metropolitan improve ' ment, which was one of the fairest objects to which such a revenue could be devoted. He cordially supported the pro posal for this committee, considering that the embankment of the Thames, if properly carried out, would be one of the most beneficial and ornamental works that could be con structed in the metropolis. He agreed also as to the neces sity of making the investigation without loss of time, and begged to suggest that much advantage might result from the appointment of a Royal Commission to consider the subject of metropolitan railways, in order to prevent their cutting up the city in every possible variety of angle and in the most ridiculous manner. He altogether despaired bi any railway committee doing justice to this subject. Mr. AYRTON thought they would be oubled with monthly discussions on subjects of this nature unless they would consent to create some mtua:'cipality that could d ea l with them on an intelligible and proper principl e . Th e on l y proper body to'deal both w!ith the introduction of railways into the metropolis and, the embankment of the river was a municipality. It, 'was altogether an i mproper mo d e of pro ceeding to iripoint a select committee to deal with such ques tions and then to consider how they should tax the inhabi tants in order to . carry out what was deemed a very interest ing' public object. The right hon. gentleman the First Commissioner of 'Works gave his consent to'this committee just to play with the subject. They had no earthly connexion with it, and the manner in which they ware accustomed to deal with such questions showed a capacity which was perfectly remarkable. The Board had no sense of responsi bility, and they threw these matters over to a select com mittee, where no one was responsible. The house should decline to entertain such propositions altogether, except in a comprehensive way by a body elected by the inhabitants and by property, which should protect the one as well as the other in all these important questions. Mr. DEEDES thought something ought to be done, but could not agree that Imperial money should be spent on such a project. The right hon. gentleman dial not say posi tively that no public money would be devoted to that object, and he thought he ought to say so at once. Unless they pointed out at whose expense the work was to be under taken the inquiry would lead to no positive result. There should be a Royal Commission appointed to consider the various important questions involved in this subject. Lord PALMERSTON said he could not agree in the opinion of the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets as to the inefficiency of select committees. On the contrary, he thought a committee a very good instrument to examine fundamental propositions, and to extract from witnesses those facts upon which conclusions might be safely founded. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend reverted always to his own proposal, that there should be a municipal body to repre sent the whole metropolis. It was a very fit subject to pro pose to the house as a separate question, but he could not concede that it had any direct application to the motion which they were now discussing. There was a body which, with regard to these works, did correspond very much with the notions of his hon friend. The Board of Works were empowered to raise by local taxation the funds necessary for improvements connected with the metropolis. In virtue of these powers they were making tunnels, and charging the expense upon the rates which they were in the habit of levying. They had the means of looking;very effectually to . the expenses of this operation. His hon. friend found fault with the department of the Government which, before the appointment of the Board of Works, was charged with the arrangement of the sewers. The reason the department of the Gsvernment was not able to construct the sewers was because they had not the power to raise the money. It was not that the Government were unable to devise a plan for draining the metropolis and preventing the sewage going into the Thames, because the plan of the Board of Works was the same plan which the Government thought efficient and proper for the purpose. (Hear, hear.) He should cer tainly object to the addition proposed by the hon. member opposite,because all matters connected with the subject were naturally included in a reference to a committee. (Hear, hear.) He was quite prepared to make good the assertion of his right hon. friend, that the committee was not to ex pect that any recommendation of theirs would have the ef feet of bringing towards the expense of the operation any vote of public money, because he was sure the house would not agree to expend any portion of public revenue on these local improvements of the metropolis. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman ought to go into committee with the clear understanding thit, whatever the cost, no part of it would be defrayed out of the revenue of the countyr at large, (Hear.) But it might be that the com mittee might think some fund could ho formediand some mode deviled' of offering a fair remuneration to capitalists who would invest money in works connected with this em bankment, The inquiry, therefore, seemed to him to be one very fitting for a committee to undertake, and they were not, in his opinion, superseded at all by the existence of the Metropolitan Board of Works. (Hear, hear.) He happened to be a member of a committee appointed two years ago to inquire into the state of the Thames, and they had evidence given to them showin,',. what great advan- tages would arise in every point of view from a good em bankthent of the Thames on proper principles. It would secure greater purification of the Lea of the river; it would improve the navigation ; it would be conducive to the general convenience of the metropolis. (Cheers.) In every point of view it was a scheme proper to be encouraged. The particular object for which the committee was ap pointed was of a different kind, and, therefore in their re port they merely adverted to the circumstance. But he thought the house would do well to concur in the motion of his hon. friend and appoint this committee. (Hear, hear.) This committee would eellect evidence showin g in what way the embankment could be made, They would certainly not recommend, he was sure, after what had been said, any grant of public money; but they might point out how, independent of the resources which the Metropolitan Board had at its command, either by the coal duties or 'by private enterprise, the work, which would be a great ornament to the metropolis and a great convenience to the traffic, might be accomplished. (Cheers.) • Mr. BENTINCK said those who were chiefly interested repudiated the committee, and the Government repudiated any idea of pecuniary assistance. He, therefore, did not see how inquiry could be of any use. Mr. JOHN LOCKE said the inhabitants of London did not want the embankment, and if it were made to delight the eyes of gentlemen visiting the metropolis from every part of the country, the expense ought to be met, to a cer tain extent by the Imperial treasury. (No, no.) He de cidedly objected to the amendment of the member for Stir ling, who had a strong objection to the spending of money upon the metropolis, but who was the warm advocate of grants in aid of the Scotch pickled herring trade. (Laughter.) The proposed embankment would only pass through two or three parishes, or "districts," as the amendment called them, and on these it was proposed to levy the entire amount. Lord LOVAINE said the house was already in posses sion of evidence upon evidence, and estimate after estimate and another committee could but produce results exactly similar. Still, if it were any amusement to the hon. mem ber for Coventry to sit upon the committee, he should not object to the motion, though he must be distinctly under stood to join in the protest against taxation, whether direct or indirect, in order to carry out the project. Sir S. M. PETO said 'the metropolis was committed to the expenditure of £7,000,000 on the drainage scheme, and the ratepayers were already cr, ing out that they derived no benefits proportioned to the rates levied. They were conse quently not likely to contemplate with pleasurable feelings the present proposition. All attempts at dealing with ques tions of this magnitude were but playing at legislation, un less a master mind existed to direct, and means equal to the accomplishment of the works to be undertaken were forth coming. He did not wish to introduce an Imperial regime into this country, but he could not help regretting the puny hap-hazard spirit with which our - Government shrunk from dealing with great questions when he sawthe improvements which had been effected in Paris. Here, on the contrary, we suffered an agglomeration of warehouses to stand in the way and were deterred from action by impediments originating in arrangementsdating from the time of Edward I. (Sear, and laughter.) All that was required was that the Govern ment would deal with the question in a spirit worthy of itself ; and all that was needed .was that the noble lord the member for Tiverton should carry it out in the same firm manner in which he had carried the Smoke Bill, which re flected honour upon him. (Hear, hear.) It was useless for the committee to commence the inquiry with their hands tied up. It was decided that they should neither be at liberty to recommend direct nor indirect taxation ; and any person who knew anything of the metropolis must be aware that it would not submit to additional imposts. Unless the house and the Government were prepared to deal with the question in a better spirit, they ought not to touch it at all, it would be more judicious to allow the Corporation Bill, like many other measures to go adrift. (Hear, hear.) Lord FERMOY said the report of the committee coed not be.binding on any person and unless they were perfectly untrammeled no good result could follow from their labours. The amendment was then negatived and the motion agreed to. MEDICAL RELIEF BILL. The order for the second reading of this bill Wae charged, INNKEEPERS' LIABILITY, This bill was read a second time. AGGRAVATED This bill went through committe d p»•o forma, with amendments. The house then adjourned. tornv - IRY MARKETS. LIVERPOOL—MAY 4. We kad a very thin attendance at this day's market, and the consumptive demand for wheat is still only on a mode rate scale ; prices at Monday's currencies in the few sales' made. Flour neglected. Oats were in fair request, at full prices, but Oatmeal has been without animation at barely late rates. Beans, peas, and barley as before. Indian corn slightly lower compared with Friday's currencies. WAKEFIELD—MAY 4. We have a small supply of wheat, with a dull sale at last Friday's rates. Very little English barley offering. Other articles steady. EXETE With a tolerable attendant firm at the following prices : Wheat, white.. 6s 9d to 7s Od Barley.. 4s Od to 5s Od Ditto red ..5s 3d to 5s 6d I Oats . 3s 6d to 3s 9d Flour, fine, 40s to 41s ; sec on d s , 38 s to 39s per sack. —MAY 4. ;e, the business to-day was CATTLE. The attendance was good, and the market was moderately supplied with fat stock. A small supply of pork carcases, at previous rates. Fat beef,fscore, 10s6d_ to lls Ewes, per lb 71d to oil Perk carcas es , d o 9 s to 10s Wethers, d 0...... 8d to 01 Sheep, per lb. . Od to 71d Fat calves, d 0.... sid to 04 Rough fat, 4id per lb. BRISTOL SUGAR—MAY 4. Our market is so completely bare of samples that we have not any transactions to notice on the spot, but several coastwise parcels have been purchased for this port, in some instances at rather better prices. Refiners' produce steady' and former quotations are about supported. Rum steady but rather quiet. COAL MART (Prices of Coal per Ton at :ET—MAY 4. the close of the market.) s. d. Davison's West Hart ley ....16 3 Holywell 16 0 Bell's Primrose l3 0 West Hartley 16 3 Wylam 16 0 Howard's West Hart- Walls End. ley 16 3 Tanfield Moor Butes 13 6 Grey's West Hartley 15 9 Walls End. South Durham........ 18 3 Ships at mark, R. d. Framwellgate l9 0 Whitworth, Hunwick l6 0 Wharncliffe 18 9 Eden l9 0 Braddyll'a Hetton 19 3 South Hetton 20 0 Cassop 19 3 Heugh Hall 19 0 Acorn Close l9 0 Carway and Duffryn Malting 23 0 t, 61—Sold, 36. [ADvEnnsExENT.]—A few more of the Extraordinary Cures without Medicine of indigestion (dyspepsia), flatu lency, constipation, nervous, bilious, and liver complaints, cough, asthma, consumption, and debility effected by Du. Barry's delicious health-restoring Revalenta Arabica Food, are here give n : —C ure 52 , 422 . —B r id ge h ouse, Frimley, 3d April, 1854-33 years' diseased lungs, spitting of blood, liver derangement, deafness, singing in the ears, constipa tion, debility, shortness of breath and cough, have been re moved by your Revalenta Arabica. My lungs, liver, stomach, head, and ears are all right, my hearing perfect, and my recovery is a marvel to all my acquaintances. James Roberts, timber merchant. From the Venerable Archdeacon of Ross.—No. 32,836—Three years' excessive nervousness, with pains in my neck and left arm, and general debility, which rendered my life very miserable, has been radically removed by Du Barry's health-restoring food.—Alex. Stuart, Archdeacon of Ross, Skibbereert. In tins, at Is. 6d. ; 11b., 3s. ; 21b., ss. 9d. ; 51b., 125.; 1.21 b., 265. The 101 b. and 121 b. tins carriage free, on receipt of :post office order. Du Barry and Co., 77, Regent-street, London; Fortnum, Mason, and Co., 182, Piccadilly; Abbis, 60, Gracechurch-street ; 4, Cheapside ; 63, and 150, Oalord street ; 330 and 451, Strand.; 49 and 60, Bishopsgate street ; 85, Tottenham-court-road. Also at Dublin, Bewley and Draper ; at Edinburgh, Rainies and CG.; at Liverpool, Nixon and Thew ; at Manchester, Sharp an'' Scott; at York, Raimes, Blanchard, and,;Co."; at;Soutk ampton, Randal land Son BIRTHS. KENNING.--On the 24th ult., at Tunbridge-wells, the wife of Mr. R. S. Henning, surgeon, of a son. HALDANE.—On the 2d inst., at 17, Charlotte-square, Edinburgh, the wife of Robert Haldane, Esq., of a son. MAJOR.—On the 2d inst., at Burntwood Grange, Wands worth-common, the wife of C. M. Major, Esq., of a daughter. M‘LEen.—On the 13th ult., at St. Vincent, Cape di Verds, the wife of H. E. M‘Leod, Esq., of a son. MARRIAGES. ITARFORD—GOULD.—On the 4th inst., at the parish church, Lexden, Essex, Frederick, youngest son of Chas. R. Harford, Esq., of Rutland-gate, London, to Ellen Gould, widow of ths, late Anthony B. Story, Esq. TAYLOR — GREENE.—On the Ist inst., at the parish church, Ashburnham, Sussex, Lieutenant-Colonel Alexander Taylor, C. 8., Bengal Engin eers, to Lydia Greene, daughter of the Rev. John Read Munn, vicar of tho parish. DEATHS. COTTON.—On. the 4th inst., at 15, Lowndes-square, Gen. Sir Willou g hby Cotton, G.C.8., Colonel of the 32d Regiment. Jacxsuri.—On the Ist inst., at Kew, Surrey, Susannah, the wife of Dr. John Jackson, aged 68. JACKSON. On the Ist inst., at Hampstead -green, Samuel Brown Jackson, Esq., late of Essex-street, Strand, aged 63. MASON.—On the 3d inst., Charlotte Adelaide, the wife of Mr. Richard Mason, of Farnham, Surrey, solicitor, aged 29. RAKE.—On the 3d inst., at Vicarage-terrace, Stratford, Mr. Thom as R ake, late of the Bank of England, aged 73. STAODE.—On tha 3d inst., at Fleetwood, Lancashire, Wm. Strode, .Esq., formerly of Epping New-road, Woodford, aged 69. LONDON : Pri - ated and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Th.; Sun Office, No. 112, l_ztrand, in the Precinot of the Sea , oy, in the county of Middlesex., Saturday, May 6,18 M, • Carr "erp IPry ZOnfa, 1)r. ain Cn In Sane ?.41b. ourn: 3tcle, Ccr lo a bill —l3 lan4 'Orr Qat hgV( ' 01) tit' ['ref W it t enN rimte tirnb