The Sun. — London, England, 1805-03-02 00:00:00

, '•-t!•zx:e% IMPERIAL PdR.LLIMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. YRIDAY, MARCH I. Tlt m P.oyal Assent was given by Col o• :issioo to the Loyalty 1.0 4tl Bill, the GreealantlWhale Fishery Ihil, aud ape Inivate COMMiSSiOrtth were the Loan Cri NC I. L1:01,' Lord WALII,I)4t;IIAM, and Lord Auext.ann.' _ The Quarantine Bill, and the Rev. sir. Bons's Naturaliza ,tion Bill, were , read a hid time and passed ; 211 d a Message sent to thie . now,e or Commons to acquaittt them therewith: The Lotto 'CliaNt.lBl,Loll , delivered his opinion respeding the Appeal from Scotland, Bannerman against 13annerman; after which the liiterioLutors dithe Court of sesition were 'Waned, with hberty to the Parties to make a Waiter refer ence to that Coon. --Adjourned till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. VIUDAY, M4RCH I. Ms. J txy I.& took the. Oaths and his Seat. A Messige float the Lords announced their Assent to the Quarantine MR.,' Mr, n 1K 1 SSON ,rll9Ved .for an Account. of the Recruits for the Army front Jan. 1804 to Jan. aes which was pre. sented by the S sea cr nay at Whet. The SIIR It ► yrs of I.OIIOON presented a Petition for power to render more commodious the Port of London.—Ordered to lie on the Tablp. The List of Names of Commissioners to ae under the East India litchi:atom fill AVAS'callcd over and entered. Mr. ii. Tana witisi brought up a 'Petition from the Sierra Leone Company, .stating circumstances, and , praying Relief.' ....ordered to be laid on the Table. Upon': Motion Math! ! it was agree:oh-that the Speaker should grant ilia Warrant to the Clerk . oc.the Crown, to new. Writ for a Metnber frar lionitOn, in the County of Devon, in room n Geerge Shwa, Bail, deceased. goym-commlBsioN Mr.Quartne, the Deputy Usher of the Mack Rod, appeared et the Bar, and summoned the Ilouse to the I louse gut to pear His rvlajesty's,Cumini , .,lou read. The fiuuse went accord :ugly, The Spolter, ,ran, his return, acquainted the House,' that the Royal Aisent hail Oven declared to the Loyalty Loan and Greenland N ishery Bills. COTTON mmaurAcTurtErts. 'A Petition ‘vai presented for leave to borrow money for the completion of the 1.44:1ts at kingston.upon-Hull ;. anti alto: titer for ereaing Docks at Carricois, in the County of Air.— Petitions were alai) presented by Air. Fox, in favour of Ito-, teat Eyre. who complained of being deprived of his proper bilaretg prize-money ; hy'Sir C coact.} - tt t L, tor the repeal of the 6 per cent. duty on the retail Imports into London, Buz. kc. ; by Mr. Pt"' r.tt Moues, for the journeymen Ca lico..P linters in the County of,Lattcaster. . rvioult i stated, with regard to this last Petition, that it vias,not linended to .'proceed itrunediately upon it, out to leave time for the augers to grant the I. toper redress, if they were thipob.ctl to do so. 11r. Snarl. AN said, that he had last year adverted to this *Wait% He wished then•that the matter sh'ould have been com promised. Ht. was lorry that it had, however, turned out dit. ten:titly hoot what he expen::(l. .7.che thinz;,,hoWo, , itl, WAS 0 1 11 priAeticieble;' but itt case it should be found necessary to proc4(l, he Would. support the' Petitioners to the utmost of 1,;41 powor,—The retatotts Avert then ordered to he on the MUTINY BILL. The Mutiny Bill was committed. Several Amendments of little conoequunce were adopted. General Ftritwrator. again urged the necessity of tiding more aulemoity to Caurts Martial. The SOFRATAttY, fit Wmt -thought that this'had ta pronxote the public fie-I vice, antrthere fore ,te wuuld attind to thettuggesti n. The 110114 e then' resumed, and the Report was irdcred for' IVfaittlay: SALT 131L1,. Mr. fiuntsinot brittrdit up the Salt and m0,,,:t1 that- it should be read a first Lord Wm. Russur,t, would out oppose it in 'this huge, but lie would enter hi, protest Against it as A heavy UK on the poor. He would, at a future st•lge, Mate his objeetiOnS more fully. 'rile Bill was then read a first, and ordered to be redd a becund time on Monday next. 11qpi A.V1,4114.9. Sir Jellst:S FrrZGERALD expressed his eon. 4.1,.nee in the promise of' the Minister for appoint. fitg an Inquiry into the ,Stare cf. she. Aceottnts with CornMittee4 had been formerly •elated, but had done nothing. He would now only move Pipers 4=11111)0o a late notice. . Iv. For un-Account of the Civil List of Ireland, distill- Luishing the scp.ir ire ciiisseS vily, for a Return of the Duties on CuStunts and Excise outtaiiding Lie. up to jiinuilry, r 8,5. •, kity. A Return in the new specifying the stuns, and the onount, front lanuary IS t, to J Annoy reos. 4thly, An. Account slioviPittg the Stock in hand In Ireland Of 104, wine s sugar, spirite,,ite. &c. in lanuary, ISos, --Or. KNARESBOROUGII ELECTION. LOCII Wrt.LT.AMRuMIi;t.t.-brought up the Report of the I , Ctiaretdmr , 446 - 11 Committee. lie stated, lit the Petition did not appear frivolous nor Vexatitins. The Conituirice had entered into some Resolutions ist. That no had taken place at Knares. Ilorough nn the 9tli of July, in compliance with the Writ. idly. That jOhri Carr, the 1 - Litirnitig ot. dicer, had been prevented by a tumult' and riot ti , otn proceeding in the Elet:tion ;, and, 3illy; That several persons mimed were prititipals in theri',r. Ordered to he Ititther cry,citier . ed night,. Copies ut .the Evidence were alto 'ordered to be laid nn the Table. Lord *ILLI,M4 RusSELL then suggested the propriety t f delofing jssuf anew Writ, till the *tilled was consitlcttd, on the grounds that the same ecetesittight be repeated. lie, thotefore, moved, Oat the SpeAtrek do not grunt his Warrant to the Cleric of the (::town to issue. a new Writ for KAl:ire*. twrotte,it rill this t.l.ty fottnight: T he C H A t. c T..1,01t of the EXCH FQI/ thOUght tirCtiniite.r.Ce ut theft haVing been a riot was scarcely a btlifiticht ground forcleLly. The .I\,l4hle I.,mrtl rIIJ riot .I,ltelr to propok,,„ it upon ,the authu. rity of the Committee. Lr;ro', WM. RU lieu. had rOl the anthotitf of the Committee such, but the Members con. purred with Mr. QlllCY'ctinfirmecri the accuritps , of the Noble Lord. LIM Wut. RusseLL, however, agreed to with. 'PAW hi.s MAXI. HORSE Ti,7( CHANCELLOR pf tkr . EXCIIIiQUER cbscrved, th,it r'p: I)uty Bill could nut, from the 111 , j , le jil VV . -; * 4(?'„I it was drawo up, be divided i nc p two in Committee. The plan, therefore, .vv)uld 6c, to le a ve nut than part which concerned Horses A g r i c t l it or the purpose of hringiog that for. Ward ar 41 epaiate Hill. Eis thto moyeti the commitment of the jt was commlelvti ticcordiogly, and the Report t.,ldt,re:ti for Monday NAVAL COMMISSiONERS. Mr. GILES rose, accOrdieg to a notice formerly given, to move for a 13in to eantinue the Powers of the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry., tie had asked of that part of the present Ministry which had been in the tiitmer MinietrY, whether it was in. tended `to continue those Commissioners ? to which he had received no reply. The .A6l which he pro. posed to continue, was one to examine into the 'Abuses of the Naval Department ; and it enjoined the Commissioners to, make such suggestions as ap. peered to them proper for remedying the Abuses. The Bill had continued two years, and the Com. missiuners had discharged their duty with an abi. lity anti a zeal that exceeded all praise. There was still much to do ; but the continuance of the ,Ad was uncertain; The time appointed for the duration of the MI was two . years, and from thence till the end of the next Session of Parlia. ment. It had received the Royal Assent in De. comber ; end if the present Parliament had met be.., fore December, the AO would have been in force till the end of the next Session ofPatliament. As it was, it would expire with the present Session, and the disiOlution of• Parliament, for one day, would put an end to its power. The Aft was now, therefore, completely in the power of the Minister. At the time of passing the Aa it was in the contemplation of Parliament, he had no doubt, merely to give an opportunity for renewing it. It might be said, then, why, was this measure introduced so early ? It was merely for the sake of security. It must be 'confessed that the present Ministry, though they had very little more vigour than the late Administration, held a .great deal more boldness, and were apt to treat thellouse with much less respeal. The , in. lention - of the late Ministry was to bring forward disiinal Motions on the Reports ; but now a Royal Commission was appointed to supersede these Mo. tinns ; and even this was not communicated to the House. The Commissioners of Naval 'equity 'had yet to examine into the State of the Commis. „gimlets of the Admiralty, the Coanmissioners o f t h e Navy, the Vialualliog Office, the Office for the Sick and Wounded, and the Office of the ItispeCtor General of Naval Works. Of the necessity of the Commission there was the evidence of notoriety, at least as much as there had been for (lie passing 'of the Habeas Corpus Mt. He concluded by mov. ing for leave to bring in a Bill to continue the Powers of the Apt for appointing Commissioners of Naval Inquiry. The CHANCELLOR. of she EXCHEQUER expressed his conviction that the Reports had brought to lient many thing's, the knowledge of which might be attended with public advantage, and if the Coma miesioners could not complete their labour before the, end of the Session, it would be a subject for, future consideration whether the Aal ought to be continued, But there was.oo proof that they might not finish their task in the time that yet remained. Even on the face of 'the enumeratine that had been made there was nothing of any essential importance, ex. Opt the ViClualling Office, and the Hon. Gentleman did not know whlther the Commissioners might not already have advaeced a. considerable way into that businesia We therefore ought naturally to wait to see what the aaual state of things might turn out to be. , There was another circumstance to which he wished to advert. The Hon.. Gentleman had said, that the appointment of the Royal Commis. stein, without any communication with Parliament, was disrespedful to the House. But this Commis. stun was appointed with a view to aid the Executive Government in aaing upon the suggestions that ap. pearetain the Reports. Was it then any disrespeCt t o Parliament to adopt a measure 19r carrying into execution those very plans which Parliament it. self had approved ? This surely could never be con. tended with any arguments that could weigh with the House. He would therefore move the Order of the Day. Mr. MARTIN said, that the most flagrant abuses existed in the Naval Department. He had the highest opinion of the Noble Lord who Was lately at the head of the Admiralty. He had fought our battles with skill, vigour, and success. But the Country was not more obliged to him for hie attioes in a military than in a civil capacity. He had paved the way for the destrudron of those vile abuses, that were equally disgraceful to the perpetrators, and to those who had permitted them to exist for so long a time. He concluded with beg ging pardon of the House for troubling them thus lung. Sir WILLIAM ELFOIW was of opinion that the powers of . the Commillioners ought not to con tinue as they were at present. They were useful, •but his objedion to them was, that they had eretted themselves into a criminal tribunal upon principles inconsistent with the British Constitution. It appear ed from the Reports, that they had taken tx part' evidence, at - 41)6166d it in these Reports, with out allowing the other parties the power of defend. ing themselves. Here a question arose, whether the Honourable Member was in order. It was agreed in the aflirtna• tive, when The ell 'MeV; La R of rho 4XCHF,QUER sa id, that this was not certainly the mode ot proceeding , to discusi these Reports with any prospett of advan. cage, The best plan would be to appoint a day for the purpose, and take them one by, one. Sir WILLIAM? ELFORD again rose, and pro. ceeded to observe, that, the case to which he wished to advert was very serious. In the Bth Report, it ap. Oared, the Commissioners queStioned an Attorney respeding the failureof a Bill brought against a parson accused of embezzlement before a Grand jury..: The Attorney gave it as his opinion, that the Grand Jury had been tampered with. He was asked, by whom? anti he said he believed that it was by a Gentleman of Exeter, who was conneded with .the•petson accused, Mitt WOehlOSt honourable in his •oondutt. This statement, if ithad appeared any Where else, would certainly be considered a libel. Mr. Siilitt./D4N, observed, that the Hon. IL. ronet was not only in order, but this was the precise t i me a t which he ought to make his objeetions. The Commissioners could •nut do their duty with. out: their present powers, if:they had ahuied them th e y ought to he oiled to account, and ,it was incum. bent oo the, Honour hble Baronet to pewit gallons. 'The Report in question contained no. thing itnroper. An ex tarer. biatclkctlc was given ()fan Qpiniort its the once of a well known raft, which was, that a Grand Jury had refused to find a agdinst a person who had - evidently been guilty of e gilbetzte men t. Sir WILLIAM ELFnRD observed, that he had done nothing mote than state what was in the Bth Report. Air. GREY said, that the question was,*, tether what ✓as contained in the Bth Report was s# breach of duty All parties, however, would have an op. portunity of doing themelves justice before the House. He went on strongly to urge the necessity of continuing the powers of the Aft, and appealed to an Hon. Baronet in the Commission, whether they would have time to finish their business in that Session ? Sir CIIARLES POLE' replied, that a great 4eal still rem3ined to be done, and the difEculty of pro. curing Papers was increased by the war. He would say one word as to the' Sth Report. He was net surprised to hear the oblation to it, considering the quarter trnm whence it came. Sir 11'M. ELFORD declared, on honour, that he had no connexion with the parties. _ _ _ _ _ _ Sir CHARLES POLE said, that he did not mean to say that he had, but only that he came from a part of the country where this was the general Admiral *MARKHAM bore testimony to the ne. cessitY which eXisced for instituting the Board of Cummircioners of Inquiry. He would take upori hiniself to assert, from his positive knowledge, that enormous abuses had existed in the Navy ; and he really believed one .third of the entire expence of the Department of the Navy might be saved if those abuser tould he got rid of. Those abuses were not only in the VOtuiding Board, but in the Transport, Board, and in that .Board which he considered the worst of all, the Siek and Hurt. He and al. most every other Officer and Sailor felt themselves aggrieved for the want s f a Bill to ,regulate the enormous abuses which had been pointed out in the Agency of Prizes. He Hoped that the duration of the present Bill should be until all those abuses were thoroughly purged away. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. PITT) had himself agreed that the Commissioners had done a great deal of good ; and he thought it was not quite fair for the' . Honourable Baronet (Sir W. ELFORD) to bring an accusation against them, as it were by a side. wind. It would have been more manly to bring a dire4k charge, if he had had any means of substan. ' flitting it. me CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the Finn. Gentleman was under a mistake in his observations on the Prize Agency question. An Hon. and Learned Gentleman had already given no. tice,ol a Motion for leave to bring in a Bill to re. gulate the subject. Mr. CREArAY thought that those Commis sionera must be rather considered as acting under a Ministerial Commission, and therefore would not be very forward to direct their attention to any abuses but thos e whi c h Mi n i s t ers wi s h e d t o he. pointed out. Ahour twenty years ago several abuses were discovered in the Department of the Navy, but no measures were adopted in consequence, and the only reason assigned for not taking mca. sures was, that the Admiralty did not like it.— There was one circumstance which appeared to him very extraordinary in the present Commission. He saw with astonishment among the names of those Reforming Commissioners, the name of Mr. John Fordyce, who was indebted to Government in the sum of 80,0001.; he would not pretend to say to what causes this might be owing, but that was the bet. The Public had lost by him both the principal of the ilo,oool. he had mentioned, and the interest of it for several years. He therefOre considered the Hon. Baronet had been petit:Bly in order in the ob servations he had made.—(A loud cr., of Question 1 Queitionl) Mr. FOX said, he merely rose to state the clues don upon which the House was then going to di vide. When the Bill was past, the preSurription and general understanding certainly was, that Par.. liament would, according to its usual praCtice,-have commenced the Session before the aoth of Dceefti. ber, and, therefore, by the intention of those who .brought in that Bill, it was to have a much longer duration that what it would now have unless ex pressly continued. The crestion then of conti. nuirig it fur the duration that it was origioally to have had would come to this—Whether the House was disposed to abridge the i•eriod assigned for its Constitutional Inquiry into Ministerial Abuses, The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. PITT) had stated a possibility, indeed, of its nut being necessary to continue the Bill, arid of all the matters that the Commission was intended to investigate being tho roughly examined before the end of the. Session,-- This, however, was but a bare possibility : an the other side there was every possibility and positive proof. The Honourable Admiral who had brought in the Bill knew well the period that was intended for its duration. The other Honourable Admiral (Sir CttAlt.Les - Pot.s) who w.ls the principal Com missioner under it, certainly did not appear in the least to imagine that the business would be so soon at an end as to give any reasonable prospect of the labours of the Com.oission being ended before the 'conclusion of the Session. He could not per. ceive that the Hon. Baronet (Sir WILLIAM Et.. FORD) WRS at all out of order; on the contrary, it appeared to him that it was the most fair and manly course he could pursue, when the question was to continue the power of Commissioners :that he disapproved of, to come forward at once and complain of the abuses he supposed, existed from the conduct of the Commissioners themselves.— The Hon. Baronet had once made a lomat Motion 'nn-the subject, bat was not fortunate enough to find LanyNember to second him. This might be the case again if he brought forward a formal charge, anti therefore, perhaps, it was better for hint to state his opinion in . the manner he had done , this night. He was notable to see all th o se wh o we re at the other side of the House—he did not under. swirl the new connettions that• marry of them ap. feared to have formed, but he caged Upon i4ll of thvot tvlio were friends arid supporters of the late 11 wit Of Admiralty to come-forward„ and not con - rent themselves with giving silent votes, but state to the House the reasoos why they firsi.suOported this j3ill And why they now conuidred it essary, or else why they had since changes the . "' 01 talon , He hoped that the oppositiob to the Motion of'his Han. and Learned Friend was not meant as ran sidious method of preparing the minds of the H 0331 for letting the Bill drop in the course of the Ines" ( Session. Mr. CANNING did not conceive that, by Toting, now for the Order of the Day, he pledged himse lf in any manner to oppose the further continuance of the Bill if it should be judged necessary to anti' nue it.• The two Admirals who had already spoken, differed entirely in their opinions of the time when the Com Mission was originally intended .to W ire ' The Admiral (MAttxtsakto) who had brought in the Bill, stated the intention of the framers to be stated by the Hon. Mover (Mr. GlLes), but AN other gallant Admiial (Sir C. Pooe), who "' Bill Commissioner under it, stated that lie considered ft in a different lien. When such high authorities th° diTered, he thought it was right to adjourn consideration, which was all that was meant brow,thl Order of the Day. There was a possi bilit y , ever, that the main task of the Commissioners might be finished within the year. There WO possibility also, that the opinion of the Honour able Baronet might prevail, and in either case thellooo might be disinclined to renew it. Whatever Migh t , be his opinion of the importance of the charges sag, gested by the Hon. Baronet, he was convinced he was perfeelly in order, and that he had a ne t h t( : make spelt comment or observations as he the ¢,e right,' on the condo Et of the Commissio ned .. thought it was rather unfair to address him sotaut ingly about having made a Motion which he ealP get nobody to second. Mr. FOX denied any intention of addreti4 taunting expressions to the Hon. B a ronet. I . t . dt taunt was meant, it was rather against hilt ft 4 , / ,) who did not support him. Sir C. POLE gave his opinion, that tile r . W h e e l at present matters of the highest importanct fore the Commissioners, and that, in all probe Sts' their labours could not be ended within ' Sci. 6 Sion, ' Aft. BRAGGE said, he conceived himtelfP.! one of the persons Galled on by the Hon. Ge° l l l6. l l - 0 at the other side of the House (Mr. Fott)a ani o g. should therefore state his reasons. As to or' i n• to the opinion of the two Admirals about the.! l : l . , •ing of the framers of the Bill, he disaor°,„ v i 'dia, that manner of arguing. The intention of th at in• meet was what should be considered, PO tentian was only to he known by theati" t il l il it As to the intention of the framers of th e ; 1 ;611 could only be known '16") , those who had con"6'''b ei o communication on the sehjell from all the S e° : jot of Administration, as such Bills ,as these a t ' o ri a brought forward merely on the opinion of snY that the Board. The intention of Parliament -'vas' Bill should remain force unt il its Ohie u G s n o t . accomplished. The intention, of the i i° %„" h - t oe s m initi a g n rsh, ( l; :Vi t3 i. ti, P tai t iie r i v bo ) uf i s i i i c ip i; e s a tsi r s e t t i l tu t t l , b n e i t i lte same' forward if no confidence at j ea lousY ° g; the positive assurance of an Hon. Monher;4 was hie intention to bring. f o rward a eer!,..Bfince In sure. For his part, he felt a perfeet eoull""„fare the assurance that had been given, he eiders thought the present Motion unnecessary, 31416 vote for the Order of the Day. t g reat aat ,S:s il si: v o , l o w to ou l b d e n i e l i v i t elto t Lord HENRY PETTY could not see ' ca se danger could befall the Country, even if tueggiole should happen, which Was only stated as a rbefatO one, that the business should be disposed the time had come for the expiration 0 11 70 sr , mission. With re s pell to another case , felled the liberties of ma n y millions of our, f to As men, Parliament did not think it necessary t iros any very nice proper Lion between the time tu j i iit t o powers might be abs o lutely necessary and lie which it would be dangerous to grant them. p i ons tile Carpu s cases when he agreed to continuing the i. ' fis Suspension Bill only fur two nloot" I ' 00 1,i , i might as well have argued, that it was verfarjoi is r tle that pedal tranquillity would be t ea Ireland several months before this Sal w ! - flo siblei pire. That case would have been full ri l es,, 100 Commissionerstiohelcpoeirl!risaeps more probable, than that voPhs been suppose doft i t i oe h .a p nv r i i gen s t g i e t n ,fi t l n ts e yi s • ho w ocid a „ y na.l o l of a h r e g i r °7 r t ia tt o p i l e a o ct it : 4 Mr. HAWKINS P„KOWNE, althouS n tthe gislr - a sufficient reliance on the assurance 4 /* Hon. Gentleman, that he would move for °°";" 0 , 111 • the Bill if the time was not snfficient°Yi e n - r e thought there was su ffi cient evidence „ ll to House, that the business could not beexoebe9r a itca finished it, the course of this Session, he 11/3 the Motion. 0 414 Met 71 E. RN EY said, it appeared to be r 1 0 almost every one, that the Commissio lzucd ttilteirr:::::::: d l p e:l ,oup l b y err w hte e h l at l ita, d it iiistelcychaasrrige,sidiul su d ggested i ice r :,in d tw u i whether : l it t o: 0 : ,0 1 of War. It would be recollected, however, r,eerit principal part of their labours, which hav e co oid such important bene fi t to thePublic,have bee n 6.4 C' on in time of War. , As the worthy Boon e : ' ' Pool bad bad said distindtly that the lengt h °' oh" Sionwould not afford -sufficient time to s c , cm e biel i their task, he thought it was evident that 1 1 1 -hell be still entrusted in those hands WllO w ' therto so ably and faithfully executed it:,00,400' were many accounts 'which were to Coal e J r i d e rid g rant parts abroad, and would .require e° ll '' oleo time before any Report coahl be made 01 1 'o t As to the intentions of the Framers of th e fo ilir fh could not tpeak p os i t i ve ly o f t he intentions 7. 1 ore' he could answer, however, for his own. ,' ,1 , / ki) o4l lions were to have thorough!) , exomined hoe cl 5 which he heatil c o mpl a ined u t, riiiTf r .,. tlt r f a rween that time and the present was t't;o 1 4 ! Abuses were then only spoken of, but now iP t i, e 0 0 ' been proved. lie concluded by s oppor'i ll i ginal Motion. e gitl2 - d The C B EL LO R .11 the 4X -- be 10 " ; i s n ati)o e m :l n il i i i m ot t t i l o et t ir i :ey s ,l a s it i t li , l4id i g te m4 w .yt ( Ig ) i u gi.i l e t i l poo t: r u l t asr tv o,tt i n : t h i t i : reg , 4o l 05re , : lj o 01 0° . 11 8" 41 h$ having considered all the Iter had ‘ 7. 10 1 things. fc Ad4airals 'YtA d P ail " ,Nl4 ATI .01. Its slit Abc a Inc One anti TN' Pei. !XT) ~``~ ~4Riv I tonsi .`ter , ; La4t 1111 to r ot Ili, P'te nt r , Qt 411 t