The Sun. — London, England, 1858-06-22 00:00:00

the commissioners were ready to pay the money within any reasonable time. Mr. BLACKBURN submitted that a period should be fixed fur its repayment. Let i.he committee fix it at , five years. That would be a reasonable Tee amendment was then agreed to. Mr. ALCOCK. moved, as an amendment, in clause 1, 1 line 2, after 1851," to leave out "two pence," in line 4, and insert " all sums of money which have been paid by the Treasury on account of the Kensington Gore Estate, or any disbursement therewith, together with a moiety of the net rents received by the commissioners." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER opposed the amendment. If carried, it would destroy the ar rangement proposed. The amendment was negatived without a division. Mr. BLACKBURN then moved, as an amendment, that the commissioners should pay 5 per cent. interest on the purchase money from the pa,•sinv of the act. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to the amendment as unfair towards the commissioners. Mr. WILSON suggested that it would be better to make the commissioners continue to pay up half the rents 1 of the property, which was annually increasing in value. The house then divided — For the amendment Against it Majority --109 The amendment was lost. Mr. S. HERBERT suggested that a portion of the land in question might be advantageously taken by her r Majesty's Government in lieu o f money barrack accommodation. The lo n g er they delayed purchasing a site for barrack accom modation the more they would have to pay for i t, from the daily in creasing value of land. The CHANCELLOR ~f the EXCHEQUER said the suggestion was worthy of co nsideration, but that was not the question for the co nsideration of the committee. Toe coininissionere were prepared to carry out the plan of 1852, and asked :he Government to do so, or enable them to do so untrammelled by her Majesty's Govern ment, and the latter thought it desirable to withdraw on having the public money repaid. Mr. KINNAIRD said the Royal Commissioners could not repay the 180,000/. without they sold a por tion of the land, and he saw no reason why her Majesty's Government might not take a portion of the land in part payment. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Royal Commissioners did not intend to sell any portion of the land, but some of it would be let on lease for building, as originally contemplated in the scheme of 1852. It was intended to erect a great artistic and in dustrial college at South Kensington for the education of the people. Mr. B, HOPE reported there were to be schools of art, and that the second should be at Brompton, where the people would not go to be educated. Atter some further discussion, Mr. AYRTON said that it was unfair for the Royal Commissioners to have all the advantages of this scheme. He understood that the land, which was purchased at 3,0001. per acre, was now worth 5,0001. per acre, and a rental of 6001. per acre. If they were to let 15 acres on building leases, there would be sufficient rent to pay the interest of the money. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the original scheme prevented it. The object of the scheme was to disburse the money for the purpose of science and art, and it was being carried out. The clause accordingly was then agreed to. On clause 2, Mr. ALCOCK moved the omission of the clause. By enabling the Government to retain 12 acres in their own hands, they would probably cause great expense in future, and thus they would defeat the professed object of the bill. Mr. SLANEY supported the clause, believing that it tended to benefit the community. Mr. GLADSTONE wished to see the clause some what modified. As it stood the Government could only retain the land for purposes connected with the depart ment of science and art. That appeared to him too stringent, and he thought it would be better to enlarge the discretion of the Government. He thought the hon. member for Surrey (slr. Alcock) could hardly be aware of the efftct which would be produced by the omission of the clause. In that case, under the first clause the commissioners would have it in their power to exempt thernselvea from the obligations of the deed which they had concluded with the Treasury, and they would be coma possessors of the whole of the buildings with their valuable c ntenta. He thought 60,0001. was a perfectly equitable price for this land. It consisted of about 12i acres, which cost 4,0001. par acre, or 50,000/. altogether A small piece of land was purchased for 2,000/, to im prove the approach, and 2,0001. more was expanded in laying out the road, and 4,0001. per acre was paid for two acres, which formed the site of the road. These sums made together 62,0001., and therefore 60,0001. was a very fair price for the public to pay. Mr. SPOONER said the right hon. gentleman had spoken as it the commissioners were not trustees for the public,. In point of fact they were so, and therefore there was no reason why the Sheepshanks collection should not be placed in their hands. The of of those who wished to have the clause omitted was that the Government should have no inure to do with the depart- Went of science acd art ; and if this second clause were given up, and the 12 acres handed over to the commis• eioners, these g,:otleruen would afterwards act iu the matter as trustees for the public. It was bad in prin ciple for the Government to employ, in any way what ever, the general taxation of the country in the promo tion of any particular object in which the whole country was not concerned. Mr. CO ViiPER said the hon. gentleman who had just sat down was mistaken in supposing that under Mr. Sheepshanks' will, his gallery could be handed over to the commissioners. Mr. Sheepshanks exhibited the strongest objection to tl,e placing of his collection in the hands of any board, or trustees, or coininissioners ; his desire was that his pictures should be taken care of by those responsible ministers of the Crown who had the supervision of the education department. As to the boo. gentleman a views of art and science, it was well known that they were rather ancient, and better suited for the times of the Goths and Vandals than to the pre sent day. (Laughter.) Mr. SPOONER said, notwithstanding the allusion made to the• Goths and Vandals—(laughter)—he should not abdicate the function of protecting the tax-payers of this country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the objection of his bon. friend (Mr. Spooner) to the department of science and art might be perfectly sound and valid, but they had really nothing to do with the question before the house. As he was him•elf respon sible for the insertion of this clause in the 111, he would briefly state what was the object of it. The Royal Com missioners wished to dissolve this partnership ; the Go vernosent agreed to it, and the commissioners undertook to pay the turn of 182,5001. The commissioners natu rally said, "If we pay you this money you must put n. in possession of the property which we have purchased." The Government thought it fair; but it happened that a email detached portion of the property was occupied by public institutions wid gal eriej of art which were lett to the country, and for the acceptance of which the Ministers cf the day were responsible. The Govern ment having been bound by Mr. Sheepshanks' will, the question arose whether they should pay a refit fur the location of these objects. Tee rent would have been very sigh, as it must have been c.ihnia!ed upon the original wit of the plot of land; and it was therefore suggested that, instead of their paying rent, the establishment should remain till the original arrangement was matured, a sum being paid equal to the original price given by the commissioners, and not increased by the increased value which the land had acquired in the interval. It appeared to him tha: the terms which the Govern ment had made for the public were as fair as any that could be expecte.% Teat was the only issue raised by the clause, and all that his h lend the member for WarwicAtsEire s,id abort the inexpediency of Govern ment interference with cience and art, bad no more to do with this matter than it had to do with Kensingtor- Gore. As to the commissioners taking charge of Mr. Bheepahauks' collection, tinit was simply impossible, They bad no inure tiglic to take c'AarAe of Mr. Sheep shaulr' gal h:ry, rof the D , .... , artm , mt ot Sc' eace and Art than 1/05 , metubere of that teal ‘e. Thev might as well he expected te take charge uf the Howe 11Tartment. Mr. JOSEPH LOCKE was eurpriced to h:ar the right hoc, gtutleinan say that the commissioners Lai no right tie interfere with science and art. If that were true, why wai th,re a partner:hip ? (Hear, hear.) It was remarkable that the pe:sous wh,) were at the bead Of the department *cieuee and art f_rwed the Royal CJturni , 3ine. Sir H. L LOUG EIB c r thought the great de`ezt of the clause wet that it diet hot state al. precise sum teat was to he paid. Mr. H. DRUMMOND thought there was something kept back in this matter. Toey were told that the com missioners had nothing to do with science , and art ; and at the same time they were informed that those gentle men had to provide schools for the people. There was some secret influence some he e ; there was something , tbat wal not fair and above board. Mr. CONINGHAM sail if the Chaucel!or of the Ex- Chequer wished to advance science and art he c uld hot do better than assent to the rnoti , in of the right bon. gentlemen the member for Ashton for the repeal of the paper duty. Sir G. LEWIS observed that some bon. members ap peared to labour under the impre,sion that this clause was inserted to guard the interest of the commissioners against the public, whereas it was evidently inserted to guard the interests of the public against the commis sioners, (Hear, hear.) The department of science and art was a department which had no connexion whatever, except as a matter of negotiation, with the Commis sioner& of the Exhibiiian. Mr. J. WIL SON a cll' submit to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in accordance with the suggestion of the right "n• gentleman the member for the University cf Oxford, the t In words to the effect that the land lauee'lai A,1c.1.,1 be Lorßetained r the use of the public. think the word "public" of th e EXCHEQUER did no t an act of Parli ament. th into was lang uage w hi c h was usua lly introduced Mr. T. BARING thought et in emission of the clause would militate against the obj et Tbe then agreed t o, cluse was vaiteidw'the bill passed through caommittee. Tho house resumed. TLIE PAPER DUTIES. On the motion for going into committee of l supp yon education estimates, Mr. M. GIBSON moved the following resolution : "That this house is of opinion that the maintenance of Min testy on paper, as a permanent source of revenue would 'be impolitic, and that such financial arrangements ought to be made as will enable Parliament to dispense with tbat tax." He thought it might be right for him t o ally, in order to avoid being misunderstood, that in pro- POeitac 'this resolution, which he had placed upon the set H paper, be was not opposing tne house going into corn- i mittee of supply. It was immaterial whether his resolu tion were carried or negatived, so fares regarded the sub- 1 sequent going into committee of supply, at lie believed, I should it be the house's pleasure to adopt the resolution, a motion could be made immediately afterwards to go into supply, There had been some difficulty with re gard to propositions such as he had put upon the paper. He knew that many experienced members of this house entertained of jections to unofficial persons presuming to that the on 9 r p e r m op is o s s i ein the f xta te e r s. nis of a weremotionis fiscal who le h thoughtangesor There those taking such propositions should be left to the financial mini,ter, and that private members coming forward and such a course as he took was no t conducive to the public 1 welfare. He remembered, when this objection was - I urged on a former occasio n, that the present C h ancellor of the Exchequer held th at to sa y that unofficial went bars were to be precluded from making propositions of this kind was a very dangerous doctrine, and one that the house ought not to sanction. Therefore, recollect ing well the right hon. gentleman's feelings upon this matter, he approached this question on the present occa sion with more than usual confidence. He might be asked why he had not brought forward this questi m as a substantive motion, but bad preferred to connect it with a vote of supply, and his reason was, that he thought that the subject to which this re-olution related was intimately connected with the resolution about to he moved in committee of supply, "That a sum of money should be voted for the purpose of promoting education in England and Wales." He believed that the repeal of this duty, which stood in he way of the diffusion of knowledge, was a proposition fur promoting education througeout England and Wales. (Hear, hear.) If he were to say that he bad high authorities in favour of such a motion as he now submitted, every hon. member wool i feel the truth of his statement ; in fact, if he were to mention the distinguished persons who had voted for such a proposition he should have to detain the house too long. He was overwhelmed with authorities. The diffi culty he had felt was this, that he could not get anybody to agree to place his opinions in the form of a minute on their journals ; to take the first step towards carry ing his views into practical legislation. He knew the Chancellor of the Exchequer to be ie favour of this motion, and the right hon. member for the University of Oxford had, on many occasions, expressed opinions favourable to such a proposition as was now made. In fact, he had not found any enemy—perhaps enemy was too strong a word—openly avowing himself to be such, to this proposal except the right hon. gentleman the Chan cellor of the Exchequer to the late administration. He went, he thought, the length of saying that he con sidered the paper direr a good tax in itself, thereby im plying that it should be continued as a Government oranch of our revenue. He was not asking the house to vote the repeal of the tax at this moment, cr to disturb the financial arrangements of the present year ; he was only asking the house to contradict the pro posal that the paper duty was a good source of taxa ,ion, and that its maintenance was inconsistent with the publics welfare. If be were to bring forward this motion siropts as alfinancial proposal ; simply one for relieving the community of so much taxation, and also of a mis c'lievous kind of taxation, he should have a very good case, putting aside altogether those important educa tional views which were connected with the subject. He believed he could prove by past experience that taxation was one thing and revenue another, and that it was pos sible to repeal taxation, if done judiciously, without per manently injuring the public revenue. (Hear.) No one had more lucidly explained that doctrine to the house than the right hon.2gentleman the member for the University of Oxford, for he remembered him telling them that Sir R. Peel, during a period of eleven years, had repealed many taxes and had put on other taxes, but the balance of remission of taxation amounted to 7,000,0001. per annum. But at the end of the eleven years (here was not a loss of 7,000,0001. a year, there was a gain of 5,000,0001. a year, thus showing that by judicious selection of taxes to be repealed, he had re lieved the industry of the country from oppressive burdens without injuring, the revenue of the state— (hear, hero)—and, indeed, in the particular matter of the excise duties that eminent statesman repealed at the same thee about 1,000,000/. of excise duties, and at the end of the period of eleven years the revenue from the excise duties was 1,500,0001. more than before. Thus he proved incontestihly that taxes starved one anotuer. And though they might be told that Arthur Young was in favour of multiplicity of taxes, he thought that you could get a larger revenue by a few large prin cipal duties, and that you could raise your money with the least po-sible injury to trade, commerce, and manu factures. The paper duty was a most pernicious tax in every point of view, and from a return which he moved for a short time ago as to the number of paper mills in England, it appeared that during the last 20 years the paper wills in England had diminished in number from 525 to 393. He bad bad the honour of waiting with a de putation on the Earl of Derby, and when that fact was mentioned to the noble earl he said it was owing to the fact of advanced civilisation which caused trade to be carried on by large capitalists, and so reduce the number of manufacturing establishments. He spoke of congestion from advanced civilisation, but he (Mr. M. Gibson) thought, with all respect, that the noble earl was mis taken, because, if he were right, we should see the same effect in other branches of industry. We did not see the same thing in silk, cotton, or other mills; they were not diminished, hut, on the contrary, they went on con stantly increasing, whilst with regard to paper the manu facture was falling more and more into few houses ; and the whole supply of the United Kingdom must, if they continued this obnoxious excise system, fall into the hands of a few large capitalists. The trade required more capital to carry on the paper manufacture than if it were free, and this gradually created that congestion of capital 1 which was complained of. It must be remembered that the manufacture of paper was carried on in rural parts, it was carried on beside the pure streams, and employed the peasantry ; but if this system was continued, they would destroy ail those small rural paper mills, and would drive tee whole paper manufacture into the manufacturing dis tricts, and it would oe placed in the hands of persons who used steam instead of the pure water power of the rura , districts. The immediate object of his motion was , o show the great inconsistency of asking Parliament to Licrease the vote for education when they maintained this tax, which stood in the way of the diffusion of know ledge among the masses of the people. flow did the fluty press ? Nut on a large book, where it might be -aid that it was imperceptibly minute, but on a cheap book, for the amount of duty was large, just in propor tion as the publication to which it was applied was ex tended in its circulation. A cheap publication, with a large circulation, was what they required should exist, and that it shou n be good, if they desired to spread knowledge among the great classes of the community. What was the history of the origin of the paper duty ? It arose in the time of Anne, and they would find it was just after newspapers began to be party organs, and to reflect on ministers of the time, and on different party leaders. (Hear.) He remembered that Mr. Hallam used the words, "the vivacity of the press attracted the notice of the Ministers of the day." A message was Commons down from the Crown, informing the House of P i bres ofr a w tihi e te r y e 0 too free, e f reiel,nti Ministers 3 theyof the I: , c y m t e a u l n o d w n '''it, with h e h ttthe t3u pc institutions ah country, and it called on the House of Commons to take some steps to put down these great evil-. Tee house replied that they would endeavour to find out a remedy for the mischief. And what was the remedy I Why, it Was suggested that taxes might have all the effect that censorship or actual licensing of the press had in other countries ; and for the first time taxes on knowledge were invented in oominittee in that hones for the express and avowed purpose of restraining the newspaper press. The taxes imposed were the stamp duty, the advertise ment duty, and the paper du'y, the two first of which they had repealed. Their position was now reversed ; they ware now advocates fur education, In the days when these taxes were imposed there were objections wads to the diffusion of knowledge, and therefore, though the Parliament of Anne might he cmsietent in imposing these duties, the Parliament of Victoria was inconeiss tent to continue to retain them. (f - fear.) How did the tax affect particula r pubtcations ? He found a speech in a public paper delivered by the Secretary for t'e Colonies the other day iu Her fordshire. (The honourable member then read an extract from the speech of Sir E. B. Lytton, detailing the ad vantages cf having a penny Conservative newspaper.) T,l:, conservative organ he ha I no doubt had a large circulation, but if it were as large as was represented it roust pay au enormous amount of taxation. If its cir culation was any , laing, like 50,000 a day, as was netted,repre he should think that the ainoutit of taxation was eUI. a day ; and if its circulation was 25,000, the tax would be 251. a d ay. What a (Redaction was that to make. ? fromthe retur ns o f thecon-ervVive cheap- news• paper Why, it was impossible, if so large a sum were thaucted, to carry it on. Io the instance of a cheap paper, , hey could not add the tea to theprice ; they not charge a penny and fraction of farthing ' a a ; and this deluctiug roust therefore ho wale f r o m th e fu n d s of tbo:e who were conducting that that deduction Was th at it rendered i a t per. The effect of the paper on an inferior kind of materianlecaensds necessary t o d p r r i . r. d t the conductors of that paper unable to employ rendered e w e s t literary talent, and in all respects prevented toe paper . being wade as good as it would be. If this duty were repealed the conductors of such a paper would not put the 501. or 251 . a day i nt o t heir pockets, for th ere were other cheap papers, aid they would be compelled by c enpetition to apply the money to the improvement of the publication. The same argument applied to all clnap literature. The tax made cheap literature bad litera- tura ; it stood in the way of having the beat wri'ing and having the best mi ds employed on cheap literature. %Vas it jw.icious policy for them, when they were allew ing cheap periodic ale, not to take care chat this cheap 1 terature should be as good as it c iuld be ! Could any paltry considerations of revenue stand in the way of the moral :nap v me t and advancement of the great body of the popul i rim of tbi.. country ! C ar es Knight was of opinion that thee made bad literature LI , he epetatiou of this most mischievous tax. He said :—'' Tne prubl-m especially necessary to solve upon the principle that , ' Le bent of civilisation is to make goo d things cheap, cannot be salved in England under the paper duty. All literature is tending to cheapness ; taxed literature to be cheap cnu , t lose some portien of excellence or involve a lose. A revolution has Leen effected in which sound literature might have higher encouragement in the many than in the few, if the government did not stand in the w,y," That put in very clear and forcible lan -1 guage the pernicious effect of the paper duty on the cheap literature of the country. They had some qualms of conscience when imposing this paper duty, for they enacted that there should be certain exceptions. They (ts:ii,id that th e H o l y S criptures should b e exempted from ar,i e papee tax, a n d th e y a l so exernp'ed the Psalms books the b-utch C nfession of Faith, and then they 'enact e d th at b ooks printed in the Latin,, Greek, Oriental and Northern languages, at the Universities of Oxford, - LONDON house, in which the commissioners state the increase of trade caused by their new regulations respecting draw backs on pieces of waste paper cutfrom envelopes. (Hear.) Here no doubt was a great increase of trade created by the means alluded to; but they must recollect that it was only after considerable agitation and speeches from my self and others that t'iey consented to take such a step. (Cheers.) If the comraL sioners think they give such facilities to get the drawback, and do so much to increase the trade, let us hear what the trade say upon the ques tion generally. The following letter is from Messrs. Ward and Lock. (Here the hon. member read the let ter complaining of numerous delays incidental to any application for drawback) I will now trouble the house with a letter from Messrs- Chambers, who have done so much to give instruction to the people:— " Edinburgh, May 15, 1850. " Dear Sir,—Along with this we hand you a short statement respeming the pressure of the paper duties on our publications. You will observe that during 1855 we used 378,3501b5. of paper, cos ing 11,7801. lls. 3d., and that in this price was included an excise duty of 2,4821. 18s., such duty being about a fifth of the actual cost of the paper. Nearly all our publications are of a cheap class, designed for popular instruction and im proveineet ; and the price of paper if by far the heaviest item in producing works of this kind. Although the duty is 1 per psund weight, with 5 per cent. additional, it is our belief that practically the price of paper is en hanced fully 21. per pound weight, by reason of the duty and attendant excise regu l at i ons. This is upwards of a fifth in the pr ice of most p r i n ti ng papers. S o h eavy an increase on the price of paper acts discouragingly on all our operations. We are constantly prevented from entering upon schemes for issuing cheap publications of an improving tendency from no other cause than the pressure of toe paper duties. Some years ago we issued a series of instructive and entertaining tracts at a penny and a itaifpcnny each. The sale was enormous, and we should hope some good was done. After issuing as many as 20 volumes of these tracts, we found that the state had received 5,0001. of paper duty, while our pro fits were nothing. and we accordingly were compelled to drop the work, although the sales at the time were 80,000 weekly. It is chiefly from such facts that an adequate idea can be obtained of the damage done to literature through the pressure of the excise duty on paper. Of the injury done to trade generally by this tax on produc tion it is not necessary for us to say anything.—We are, sir, your obedient servants, "W. and R. CIIA3IBERS. "Herbert Ingram, Esq., M.P." I will here remark that the quantity of paper distributed by there gentlemen and by the proprietors of the London Journal is considerably greater than all the Bibles and Prayer Books distributed by the clergy and the Bible and other religious F o isties put together, and, be it observed, the am runt cf the latter publications is increasing. (hear.) Nearly six parts cat of seven of all paper made is printed paper, and the paper used for Bibles and Prayers is not more than 11 per cent. of the printed paper need — showing, I think, a great remissness come where in the church. (Hear, and Laughter.) No draw back is allow e d on the A B C book for the poor child, or the spelling-book ; without the duty those books would be decreased in price one-half. (Hear.) I state fullmy convi c ti on t h at you would do more good for the education of tha people by a repeal of the paper duty than by granting toe large amount placed o n th e esti mates, which w ill no doubt be voted this evening. (hear, hear.) Let us look at the question as a menu• lecturing question only. In doing this, let us take a glance at other branches of industry formerly subjected to excise duties. We will take, for instance, the printed calico du t y , repee l ed 30 years ago. At that time it was objected that the tax was so small that a printed gown was scarcely affected in its price by the extra duty for printing. Now, what is the result ! Why, that a printed gown sells fir c msiderally less money than the duty formerly paid, (dear, hear.) The manufacturers and printers at the time defended the duty. What has been the effect on our commerce in this repeal of the excise ! Why, our trade has ii creased by millie.ns, and we have so improved in our manufactures that we beat the whole world in our printe s goods. (Cheers ) Tne last manufac ture fret d from excise duty was the duty on glass. Now, the rep-al of this duty has exhibited in a marvellous way the advantage of freeing our manufactures fronts the de pressing influence of the exc:sernan. The quantity manu factured increases onorte:ou , ly every year, and our export trade increases in proportion. Without the repeal of this duty we should not have seen the Crystal Palace of 1851, and the great trade now done in this country in every description of glass manufacture, and the employ ment ef many thousands extra of the population. If this house should agree to a repeal of the paper duty I have no doubt ma n y' more manufactories will spring up, and it is peculiarly an employment suited for the ruraldistricts. I also think that vegetable fibre produced from the land will he extensively used in the manufacture of paper. Lately a mill fer the manufacture of paper from twitch was established in the county of Lincoln. I will take the liberty of reading a letter from the manager on the sub ject: " We have now collected ab mt 1,200 tons of twitch, and our doing so has tended to promote the interests both of landowners and landholders : —l. By stimulat ing the farmer to clean his Lend, and as far as possible to eradicate from it a weed of most extraordinary rapid . ty of growth, and which, while it exhausts the land in a corresponding decree, often chokes and kills the young corn plant. 2. By enabling the farmer, with the money paid uou hi:, twitch, to buy a really serviceable ma nure, as a substitute for the small and oftentimes very questionable amount of benefit derived from the ashes of burnt twiich—abundahce of ashes (when required for turnip sowing, 5z.,.) being produceable from the burning of other weeds, sedge, parings, and rubbish. By those two operations (thus stimulated) of cleaning and ma nuring, the land be gradually and greatly improved at small (if any) cost to the farmer at the same time that the value of his crops will increase. My time being very fully occupied, I have very hastily and imperfectly re plied to your queries ; but I hope what I have written is suffic . ent to answer the purpose you had in view when you wrote.—l am, sir, yours obediently, SAMUEL SHARP. —H. Ingram, Esq., M.P." Paper is au article used in almost all other manufactures, in wrapping up articles, and in boxes, it forms a serious amount in the expense to which trade generally is sub ject. Many of our goods can scarcely compete with French manufactures on account of the freedom from paper duty in France. This grievance is complained of in all our manufacturing towns, No w let us consider the paper duty as a source of revenue. (Tee hon. member read a tabular statement, showing that the paper duty had exhibited much greater productiveness under the law than the high scale, and continued)—ln conclusion, I would observe that as the question of revenue is the only thing under consideration, and as we have no advo cates for the paper duty except on these grounds—l do say, with the greatest conviction of truth, that the in creased trade, the increased employment, the increased consumption of taxable articles which would follow from an abrogation of this duty, would compensate for the amount levied by the excise on paper. Ido hope that the house will have the courage and justice to pronounce its opinion the' this tax is doomed, and that we shall not stand in the world as the exception in levying taxes on the intelligence, literature, and industry a the nation. Mr. SALISBURY, while supporting the motion, said there seas no question in which the working classes of thi s country took greater interest in than the repeal of the paper duties. When canvassing fur Chester, a pledge was universally demanded of him to vote for the motion ; and his own opinion was that if any arrange ment could be made for removing the duty, it would give universal sati4action. Mr. AYRTON pointed out the importance of the mo tion in connexion with education, Even the copy books of the children were so heavily taxed that in many schools for the poor the miserable expedient of the slate had to be substituted, so tbat when the pupils after wards went out into the world they were wholly unable to write with pen toil paper. H e h a d hi m s e lf once thought the agitation fur the repeal of the paper duty unnecessary, but having subsequently gone into some calculations respecting the establiehment ofacheap paper duty was the whole question. The same argument ap plied to all cheap publications, as the cheaper the publi cation the greater was the oppression of the paper duty. Then with regard to the probable effect of abolishing such duties, he might mention that in America, where the manufacture was untaxed the production and consump tion of paper was treble it was in this country. And there could scarcely be a doubt that if the du . ) , were taken off here, the production would increase three-fold iu a very short time. It was not merely the amount of the duty that .4•4 complained of,—a much more serious evil was the interference of the excise. He was told that if there was no excise paper might be printed as it came from the mill, without undergoing the process of drying aad damping, by which a considerable saving both in time and labour would be effected. Probably there was no commodity that enfered into the opera tioue of martufectures and trade more largely than paper, and in one instance, and one only, the statute considered that circumstance a sufficient ;round for an exemption from the duty. The paper that was used in pressing woollen cloths paid no duty. But could there be a greater anomaly than to exempt the paper employed in pressing, while that which was used in packing was chargea , .de ? There were many branches of manufacture in which paper was largely consumed, as well as in making woolen cloths. Why should not the duty be remitted in those cases also ! From a return of the apolicetions to, and the concessions made by, the Board of Inland Revenue fur exemption from the paper duty, he fund thet paper and mill-board used in the manu facture rf papier mache were allowed to go free of duty, on the special ground that the existing regulations operated ii juriouely to the trade. In the same way the commission, re had allowed the application in the case of paper etupl eyed in making patterns f, r the Jacqoard leoni, and a dtawhack was also to be aelowed on the cuttings of envelopes. The rule aepeared to be that if the parties were especially persevering, and insisted that the paper used by them aas for the purpeAs of manufacture, the application was ellowed. But what difference wee there in point of principle be toceen paper used for pressing cloth and , packing (Jett. ? or between that used in the manufacture of papier mache and that used in inithing hat-box• a! He contended that every man who used paper for the purposes of his redo was entitled te the draw. back— (hear, heal) —and if the claim was allowed to that extent, 11.,w could they coneiste.ntly insist upon the duty upon paper which was used in the highest, the best, and the most righ , eotis employment to which it c-mid be devoted, viz , for the education of the people ? (Hear, hear.) Again, why should prayer-books printed in one form be exempt from the paper duty, while prayer-books printed in another form were charged ? The exemption no doubt exemptionuwt originally m e in favour of a debibbleecsauasned atp rayert time they Were the orineipat melees of education ; aid now, when the means of education were so largely ex tended, why shod.] not the exemption be extended iu the same prop. rtioii ? But if they were to get rid of the duty in all caeca whose it ()prated as an obstruction to trade, and in all cases a here it obstructed progress of TVESDAY EVENING, JUNE 1858. deputation which waited on Lord Derby on this ques tion. He (Mr. Bright) was present. One of the depu. tation was a paper manufacturer in Yorkshire, who stated that just before the recent commercial panic he was in London making a contract for the sale of paper. The cost of the paper a.; the mill was 4001., while the duty was also 400/., making the cost to the buyer 8001. He had to pay the duty in six weeks. He took a bill at four months in payment on the sale, which had to run through the commercial hurricane which ensued, and be bad to pay 4001. to the excise, which he could only get if the bill was paid at maturity after having to run four months. How could any trade survive a system of regulation like this by which this trade was regulated ? He was sure that it was not statesmanlike or fair for a Chancellor of the Exchequer to put a million of tea or sugar duties in comparison with the raper duty, which interfered with a great trade in a mariner so offensive and disastrous. There were gentlemen present who repre sented boroughs and counties in Ireland, and this was a question of importance to them. When the duty was taken off, paper could be made of straw, and especially of oat straw, which was better than wheat straw. In Ireland there was abundance of labour and water power, and especially of oat straw, and Ireland therefore offered an admirable field for the extension of the paper trade. Is was also the same with regard to many agricultural counties in England, where the trade was now shrinking and coming to nothing. In Buckinghamshire, the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Disraeli) if he asked the paper manufacturers—if there were any left —they would tell him how much it had been destroyed, and how much industry had been garotted by this duty. His right hon, friend had a right to a the house whether the duty was not so great an evil as to entitle him to ask the house to say that "its maintenance as a perma nent s 'urce of revenue was impolitic." The right hon. gentleman asked his right hen, friend to stop there in his resolution. He (Mr. Bright) knew that there might be many gentlemen who agreed in opinion with him on this question, but who doubted whether a resolution should be brought forward which asked a government to act in a particular way when it could hardly act in any way, and he thought that his right hon. friend might fairly stop at the first part of his resolution, and put generally that which the house had done that night, f 2r every member who had spoken had uttered the con demnation of the duty ; and ha should recommend his right hon, friend to agree to the adoption of his resolu tion to that extent. He did not wish to hamper the government, but if the house declared that the paper duty was impolitic as a permanent source of revenue, it would be a great step towards freeing knowledge from the hand of the tax-gatherer ; and he took it for granted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would agree t o the resolution if it stopped at. the first words ; and if so there would be no necessity for a division. Sir G. C. LEWIS said he should not have added any thing to this discussion, if it bad not been that his right hon. friend (Mr. M. Gibson) had attributed to him an opinion which he had never expressed, and which he had never entertained, namely, that the paper duty was an excellent duty, and ought to be maintained at all hezards. He had never expeessed such an opinion. Mr. M. GIBSON—My right hon, friend has misre presented me. I did not state that he said that the paper duty ought to be maintained at all hoz erds, but only that it was a good tax. Sir G. C. LEWIS—What he said—and it was said in the course of a financial statement—was that, com paring the paper duty with other duties, it did not appear, looking to the circumstances in which the country was placed, that it was expedient that it should be repealed. He had a distinct recollection that he said no mere than that comparing it with other duties there was no reason for placing it high amongst theHe which it was expedient to repeal. When his right hon, friend said that he called it a good duty, would his right hon. friend undertake to name one duty in the whole het cf our taxes, or one, whether it was among excise, customs, or direct taxation, to which objection might not be made ? Every duty was attended with its own disadvantages, and was, by its very nature, an evil and an inconvenience to the community. But what a Chan calor of the Exchequer had got to do was, to take into consideration those duties to which the smallest number of disadvantages attached. From that point of view they had to consider whether the paper duty was one which ought to be abolished. They had been told that the income tax was to be repealed in three years, and that statement had been received with great approba• teen ; but it so, you must abandon five millions of direct taxation. A question might then arise, not whether it was possible to remit indirect taxes like the paper duty, but whether it would not be necessary to impose other direct taxes to replace the income-tax. When the proposition was made for the prospective repeal of the income-tax, he (Sir G. C. Lewis) made the same objection which he did uow, that the house had bound itself to a reduction of taxation. When it was known that there was a sur plus, that was the time to consider what taxes were to be remitted. He should rejoice when the time arrived that such a reduction could be made; but till that time did arrive, he could see no advantage in the house tying itself down by prospective resolutions lilt so the present. Mr. DaUSIOVIOND said he should like to double and quadruple that tax which you called the tax on knowledge. (Laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL, who was very indistinctly heard, was understood to say that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that this tax was one of the few remaining excise duties which, as being vexatious, ought not to be kept up as a permanent source of revenue. With regard to sever al excise duties,it had been found that after their abolition the revenue continued as large as before, and he believed that their abolition gave a spring and an impulse to the general revenue. But as to the exact time for repealing this or that tax, great latitude should be given to a Chancellor of the Exchequer. He thought that this was not the exact mo ment for such a step. When a Chancellor of the Exche quer was calledlon to repeal a tax, he ought to have before him the whole of the customs and excise duties, and on a review of them all, to ascertain which would cause the most benefit to the public by its repeal. There was a question which bad been touched on by the hon. member for Birmingham, with regard to which he (Lord J. Russell) differed in opinion with that hon. member. The house would recollect that last year the then Chancellor of the Exchequer proposal that the income tax should be kept up at 70. in the pound, and that, instead of Is. 3d., the duty on tea would be ls. 51. ; and that there should be a proportionate increase in the duty on sugar. This year we had allowed the income tax to fall from 7d. to 50, in the pound ; but we bad kept up the duty on tea at ls. 51., and also retained the proportionate increase in the duty on sugar. It was almost a matter of good faith when next there was a reduction in taxation that the duties on tea and sugar should be reduced, which were in fact war duties; and there could be no greater claim for reduction of taxa tion than in those artioles of consumption which entered so largely into the comforts of the people. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he was in office before, was of that opinion • and he (Lord J. Russell) was sure that if there was a duty of is. on tea, the increased consumption would soon bring up the revenue. He hoped the Chancel lor of the Exchequer would take those taxes into consi deration. He trusted his right hon. friend would not press his resolution, as it stood, on the Chancellor of the Ex chequer, but would leave out the latter part, and be satis fied with the declaration contained in the first paragraph, " that the paper duty ought not to form a permanent source of revenue," and as the amount was so small it would pro bably be one of the• first taxes which would be repealed. Mr. M. GIBSON said that as he understood there was no objection to the first part of his resolution, namely, that the retention of the paper duty was impolitic, he would withdraw his resolution, and move " That in the opinion of the house the maintenance of the excise duty on paper as a permanent s o ur ce o f revenue was i mpo li t i c. " ' Mr. BASS said he apprehended that if this motion was agreed to it did not commit the house to the opinion that there was no other tax equally oppressive. (A laugh.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—In assent ing to this motion, I must express a hope that the house may be allowed at once to go into committee of supply, and proceed with the vote on education. The original resolution was then withdrawn, and' the amended motion having been put, Mr. BENTINCK said, before the question was put he wished to say a word. He hoped that it was clearly un derstood that the resolution meant nothing. (Laughter.) The motion was then_agreed to. SUPPLY LE DUCATIO N. The house then went into committee of supply. The first vote was 663,435/. for education. Mr. ADDERLEY said that after the very extensive powers of by-legislation which the house had entrusted to those who had charge of this subject, it had a right to ex pect a very explicit statement from the responsible officers. So strongly had he been impressed with what was due to the house on that score, that from the moment of his en tering upon the duties of the office he ha I the kiaour to hold, he had lost no time in making every effort by which this by-legislation could berendered more open to Parlia ment. In saying that much, ho hoped it would not be understood that he took credit to himself for arranging and codifying the by-laws of the Committee of Council on Education. That labour had been most admirably per formed, however, by Mr. Lingham, the successor of Sir K. Shuttleworth, who had devoted much time to the subject and than whom the public had not amore efficient servant. The minutes of council, from the first appointment of the committee, were now in the hands of hon. members not only chronologically arranged, as they were two years ago on his own motion, but codified. Now the whole amount of the vote was 66',00J/., which could be divided under the three following heads :- -157,000/. for building and furnishing schools, 400,0001. for training various kinds of master s , and 57,0001. for the management and inspection of the schools, which included the staff. It w ou ld b e seen that there was an increase in this vote of 83,0001. as compared with that of last, year, and lie had to appeel to the com mittee to say whether that increase was not a matter of en tire satisfaction. With regard to th e i ncreasing amount of this vote, he would at once say he was not one of those who took a gloomy view of the question, and thought the vote would one dey assume the most formidable propor tions. On that point, however, he w ou ld su b mit his cal culations to the commitee. From the first commencement of the system, they had expended in building schools the sum of 1,000,60 1. That sum iit ested in school buildings and furniture, he would put at 6 per cent. as an annual charge to the 'Treasury, amounting to 60,000/. The our rent expenses annually were 5 00,0101., and therefore *he whole expenditure on account of education was 561,0001. per annum. The number of children in the schools wai 80: 1 ,00. Now, taking the population of England, Wales, and Scotland at 24,000,000, and assuming that ono-eighth of that number would be children within the age of education, that number would be 3,000,000. Deducting from that number those who were educated in private niece:a, or who bel , aged to the upper classes, there would remain about 2 ,000,000 children to be dealt with by those seheols. If, therefore, a sum of i",f 0,000/. was the annual charge for the education of 800,000 children, an easy sum led them to the result that 1,41. 0,000/. would suffice for the education of all the children whom they could pee sibly expect to come to the schools. But in that case a great economy could be effected in the normal and training schools, and he had great reason to hope that a sum of 1,000,000/. would prove abundantly sufficient to meat all the wants of the system they had created. He was happy to say that he beliensi the question could ue7er be discussed upon party grounds in that house. Whatever difference there 'night be among them as to tle mode in which the end should bo attained, there could be, and there was, he believed, none as to the end in view. It would therefore, he believed, be satisfactory to the house to know that the Royal Commission on the subject which the house had agreed to on the motion of his right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty recently requested her,Majesty to appoint, was now completed and would he issued to-morrow. The right hon. gentleman conclude d by moving the vote. Mr. W. EWART regretted that the right hon. gentleman had not taken a larger view of the subject. He though' that a minister of education ought to place before the house a general view of the question, not only with regara to schools, but with respect to the manner and habits,. and effects of school education on the people. In Scotlana long hereditary teaching had shown the people the vslue of education. It was now a part of their nature and habits, and he trusted that it would soon produce the same effect in this country. Mr. GILPIN differed from the right hon. gentleman in, Our declaration that no man altogethe:depended at presen' on the voluntary system. (Hear, hear.) Seeing that the, grant was annually increasing, and extending throughaur the length and breadth of the land, and placing in the hands of one department an immense amount of patronage he thought it high time for the house to look carefully in t e l the question in ord er t o ascer t a i n h ow f ar the sums vo ted carried out the views and intentions of Parliament. One of the most impo r t an t l essons th a t t h e work i ng classes, and „ all classes had t o l earn was , th a t it was their duty to eaL!l cats their own children. (Hear.) He did not think d. could be said th a t th e vo l un t ary pr i nciple had fails ), Without Government aid much had been done, and mon would be done by voluntary efforts, and the danger vri , that Government a id wou ld superse d e t h ose efforts. (S e ar') Mr. PULLER sa id it was a grea t a d vantage to have ' body of educated teachers in the country, and their effort s were tellin; not only in the l arge t owns b u t i n th e agr ictn . tural parishes. Mr. MASSEY complained of the withdrawal of the capitation grant from the ragged sc h oo l s . Th e m i nu te r 3 council of ast December r e d uce d th e gran t f rom 50s. 1 e ss. each child, an d th e resu lt h a d b een most injurious "',, these schools. Mr. FOX agreed with the hon. gentleman who had jo gt spoken, that the class of persons to whom he referred stoo d most in need of the fostering hand of those who had the disposal of the public money. Mr. POWELL e x p resse d th e op i n i on that thew ith' dr:IN.-al of the capitation grant from the ragged school; would be a great hardship ; many of those schools hs , . been founded on th e f a ith o f th e m i nute, and it wou ld w' a breach of good faith now to withdraw the grants. , Mr. LOWE said it s eeme d t o b e genera ll y assume d that all which could be done was effected if they provided the poor with the means of education ; if they did not chn° ° to avail themselves of these means the state could do n°' thing more. lie, however, was rather disposed to 10 4 with the honourable member for Oldham, that the government could do more indirectly than directly f o r the encouragement of education. They should establish prie s : numerous and valuable in their eyes. The governme° could do a great deal in this way, by throwing open some situations, such as messengers, or Post-office letter carrier"l to those who passed the best examination. If it was foun d that a boy, by comi ng u p t o a cer t a i n standard, co in' obtain a provision for life, the impulse given to e d u cation, would not be confined to hi m or t o hi s compet i tors , hat the feeling in favor of it would be raised amongst all tb e lower classes. Public companies h av i ng l arge establish: merits could also aid in this way. When the lower class.' acquired a taste for anything they did not require government machinery to provide it. The goverrons e did not need to provide th e means o f gratify i ng the i r taste for beer; if they had th e same t aste f or educatio n , they would soon have th e means o f gra tif y i ng i t, and ~ great object of the house and government should be to er cite that taste, Mr. BLACK objected to the principle of the presen t system, which wa s entirely sects,,lam He begged to alo f, that the vote b e re d uce d b y 14 ,7 51 1., the increase in Ss°t, land, as he wished to prevent the further extension of the system. Mr. INGHAM cons id ere d that the vote fell short of vr•-:1 the country requi re d. Th e working classes themselves vrs', most anxious on the subject, and when the committee es some time since to inquire into the condition of the norther; mining districts, a proposal was made on behalf of 0 3 workmen that there should be a twopenny school 1 .0430, compulsory attendance until c hild ren reached the w of 11. Mr. COWPER said he could hardly believe that S t ) ; Black's demand for th e exem pti on o f S co tl an d from tri, benefit of the vote h a d b een ma d e i n concer t with otn'i Scotch members. He (M r . C owper ) o bj ec t e d t o any Pa( of the vote being spent in training teachers; it ought to be spent in tuition. Mr. BLACKBURN said that the objection of Mr. 1 3, ,s e i to the mode of distrib u ti ng th e gran t s i n Scotland apP"A to the whole of the g ran t s . H e h ope d t h e amen d i ns" would not be pressed. - Mr. ADDERLEY said there was no such vote as the ens which the amendment professed to refer to. Mr. BLACK altered the form of his amendment, '— proposed a reduction of the whole vote by 14,7511. j Mr. BARROW sp o k e i n f avour o f ragged sc h ool ' against means of diminishing crime. The amendment was withdrawn. The CHAIRICAN then reputed progress. UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) BILL. The CHANCELLOR of th e EXCHEQU ER sai d b proposed that this bill should go into committee on Fitt) SALE AND TRANSFER OF LANDS (IRELAPY BILL. 1 , 0 1 The house then went i n t o comm i ttee on this bill ; "t 1 Serjeant DEASY an d Mr. 31'3/AIION having objected trs l , 4 being proce e d e d w ith a t th at hour (half-past 11), with Po concurrence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer the ho e immediately resumed. The Durham County Palatine Jurisdiction Bill was a third time and passed. The Nisi Prins Court (Ireland) Bill passed through es 'y mittee. The Vaccination (Ireland) Bill was committed pro for° to introduce amendments. The Copyright of Designs Bill was read a second timed The Stipendiary Magistr a t es , & e ., Bill was rea d a sea t time. rhe Joint-stock Companies Acts Amendment Bill Ar read a third time and passed. PORTENDIC AND ALBRED.A. CONVENTION Bs.' o f :Sir E. B. LYTTON, in moving the second reading , this bill, explained that its object was to enable the vernment to carry out a convention which had been In o f in 1853 with France, on the subject of the navigation the river Gambia. The bill was read a second time accordingly. The Cowley's Ch ar ity Bill was cons id ered as amends,' pl The Harvey's Charity Bill was rea d a thi r d ti m e passed. The Bristol Municip a l Ch ar iti es Bill was read athiPl time and passed. The Bristol St. Nicholas and St. Leonard's Charities was read a third time and passed. The Art Unions Act Amendment Bill was read a spo on time. The Publie Grounds and Playgrounds Bill was re!' third time and passed. The Joint-stock Banking Companies Bill was consider ed as amended. MR. BARBER'S COMMITTEE. The committee to consider the case of Mr. Barber, s . „O the question whethe r h e s h ou ld rece i ve compensation, " nominated. Mr. S. WORTLEY, however, protested against , d . principle of awarding compensation under such circoro stances, as he thought it was likely to be a precedent Wi ll would lead to great inconvenience. tb g The other orders of the day were di spose d o f , an d house adjourned at half-past 12. c, 'enb - ridge, and Dublin, with the consent of the autho i ride. `°,. should be exempt from the paper duties. They thougetht that with the obscurity of the learned languages an d ee A I t c t a ci a t t h io o n se o p f u th b e lic h a e t a io d n is s o . f h ß o u u t see c , ou th ld ineyanmyitghhtg b give rao onstrous than that th e y s h ou ld t ax t h e v i l l age ferceherodeOlulook! 30 per cent., and exempt these books of the uni vereity ? (Hear, hear.) And what were the "North,ern languages ? " He fancied the English, or, at all eve tote, the Scotch—(a lauga)—and if that were so, Ereglids books did now enjoy an exemption from the paper duty. The society to which be belonged, con nected with the repeal of the taxes on knowledge, placed this littl e fact in a very terse way. The writer said— " I can see no reasen why the History of the Calmucks' in the original Russian should be entitled to exempeion from paper du'y, while it applied to the Primer of the artizan's cbild." If they meant to maintain this ob noxious tax, they ought to have the decency to apply it to ail classes alike. An hon. gentleman opposite wanted the books of the University of Dublin to be exempt, and he did not wonder at it. The symptoms of a dying tax were constant claims for exemptions and a yielding to those claims. He was against all exemptions. The taxes should be placed equally and impartially—(hear) —and if they could not, maintain any tax without a constant recurrence of draebacks, they should repeal the tax, and seek for other sources of revenue. (Hear.) He dared say it had passed through hon. gentlemen's minds that he thought to suggest a substitute for this tax, but he declined any such office. It was not his duty, and it would he irregular for him to find new taxes ; and he did not, moreover, believe that they would want any new tax if they repealed this tax. It f firmed one-sixty fourth part of the revenue of this country. Could any b'dy say that this great country was reduced to such straits that if taxes to the extent of one-sixty-fourth of the revenue were repealed it would produce great finan cial difficulty ? No one was so absurd. We were capable of dealing with our financ , al system, and still maintain ing the revenue and credit of the country. He was as ready as any one to admit the extreme caution with which they ought to deal with the public revenue, but they ought not to be afraid to condemn this tax because they might suppose that it was not possible to say what substitute could be found. He believed that the other sixty-three parts of the public revenue would swell out so that they would he very shortly equal to what the whole now was. He believed it might be shown in figures that in the very first year there was an almost certain chance of a very large portion of this duty being replaced. But there were economists in that house, and he was sure that they would not see any difficulty in dealing with so small a revenue. (Rear.) He did not think tho right hon. member for the University of Ox. ford and those who thought with him would find any difficulty, agreeing as they did with Sir R. Peel and the policy which he carried out with such success. He would take some other instances to show the effect of this tax on small newspapers ; but first he would mention that the Times, some time ago, s .id that they paid 16,0001. to 17,0001. a-year piper duty, and he believed that now they mast pay a great deal more. He would refer to the Manchester Examiner and Times, and he had a letter from the editor of that journal, who said that during the last year he had paid to the State a revenue of 5,0001. in the shape of paper duty for the privilege of giving his cheap newspaper to the public, and that if that 5,0001. were net taken from him, he should still sell his paper at a penny, and apply the money now paid for the tax on improvements. He had also a letter from another editor, who paid 3,5001. a year. These weee very large steins to be deducted from the proprietary body of small journals of this description, and he did not think it pos sible that cheap papers could flourish and be good and successful unless they were relieved fewn this most mis chievous burden. A correspondence hed recently taken place between a gentleman engaged extensive'y in the manufacture of paper and the Board of Inland Revenue. This gentleman was very auxin! to promoe education in his immediate neighbourhood. A voluntary subscrip tion had been raised for a school, and he made the fol lowing application to the Board of Inland Revenue : The letter was dated in June, 1858, and was from Mr. Rawlings, of Wrexham Mills, and it said that being about to open a day school in connexion with their mills, they bad to ask wnether they might be psrin'eted to use the cuttings of their paper free of duty fur stationery pur poses exclusively for the use of the schools ; or, if that were not all iwed, whether they might receive a draw back on paper rendered unfit for sale by use in the school? And what was the answer? "The commissioners ; have had before them your application, and I am directed to state that you cannot be allowed to use the cuttings of your paper free of duty, nor to receive a drawback on paper rendered unfic for sale by use in your school " The small boon, it did appear to him, might have been granted without any lose to the revenue, but it was the unfortunate sy-tem of excise regulations that any thing new was sure to be rejected. They were guided by old regulations, and every new proposal seemed to them to contain something in disguise dangerous to the revenue. The repeal of the duty would cost about a million a year, but it would do more for the spread of education than if two miliioes were added to the education vote. There was another branch of the question, namely, the excise regulations, upon which he must say a few words. What could be so monstrous in a country where the great mass of the people lived by their indus'ry, as that they should be obliged to carry on the manufacture of paper under an act of Parlia ment passed in the reign of Queen Anne, and containing no less than 69 olau.eo, every one moat probably open to more than one interpretation. Was it not also mon strous that throughout the whole of this long act—an act of pains and penalties—there was no definition of isbat paper was, there being at this moment a litigation geiog on on that subject. (Hear.) In the same way every improvement in the manufacture was a matter of diffi culty, in consequence of the fiscal obstructions. Mr. Rawlinson, a manufacturer, asked permission to use a new weighing machine of great accuracy, which would save three-fourths of the time in many operations, but the Board of Inland Revenue of course refused, and Mr. Rawlinson was obliged to go on with the old beam and scales. The same difficulties prevented any cheapening of production, and now when a very small matter turned the foreign trade against us, matters of this kind came to be of great importance. Mr. Rawlinson further in formed him that in the United States, where the manu facture of paper was free from surveillance, it progressed most rapidly, while in this country our restrictions were gradually throwing the trade into the hands of foreigners. The gentleman who manufactures the greater portion of the paper for the Times told him that formerly be used to ship largely to Buenos Ayres and Monte Video, but that now the trade had all gone to the French and Belgian manufactures. So much did this gentleman deprecate the presen state of things, that he expressed his fear that even with a remission of the duty it would be many years before we could resume a successful competition with foreign countries. Neither could it be said that the regu• lations were preventive of fraud. The Board of Inland Revenue boasted that nothing could beat them but eribery, but that boast itself was an admission of their huperfectiou. The amount of the paper duty was little more than a million, and from that sum a deduction must he wade for all the paper used by the state. That house which paid duty on all its paper, had lately issued a return a hich required 34 tons, the duty on which was 5001., an arraugemeot which did not appear to him to be the perfec tion of human wisdom. He thought, under all the circum stances, they were in a condition to lay dean the prin ciple involved in his resolution, which he begged re spectfully to submit to the consideration of the house. Mr. INGRANI, in seconding the motion, said—Sir, I shall, with permission of the house, make a few ob servations on the resolutions proposed for adoption by the right bon, the member for Aditon. I consider the country is greatly indebted to him for persevering in bringing to the notice of the house the injurious effect of the paper duty to our manufactures, and in its opera tion as a tax upon know lege and education. The paper duty is a tax leveed of lid. per lb., with an a fditional 5 per cent. on all paper manufactured in the empire. There is a cu,toin-house duty of 31. per lb. on all paper imported into the United Kingdom, which may be said to be protective duty ; and this fact, we suppose, may account for the circumstance that so few manufacturers of paper join in the agitation fur its repeal. I believe, however, that thilie gentlemen aro somewhat short sighted in their views ; but after all they have only fol lowed the t xample set years ago by all the tuanufac turere of silk and printed cotton goods, who considered custom-house duties as protecting their trade, and there ' fore of advantage to them. It may be remarked that manufacturers were Protectionists long before the agri culturists ; and we have now a rag of Protection left with the paper manufacturers under which t'sey imagine they find security. (Hear, hear.) Printing paper on ly pays 11d. per lb., which cannot be considered as any pie - tee ion to the printer. As I stand In the double po,i non of manufacturer of paper as well as a consumer, I think I shall be able to show the injurious effects of the paper duty on the public generally, and that the only possible defence for its continuanc e is the revenue derived therefrom. But, in my opinion, the net revenue i s Hi) small as to make it wholly unimportant to the Ex chequer, when weighed with the many evils that the impost hece:sariiy entails upon society. (Hear.) On this point it is, iu ray opinion, the duty of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to find a better tax as a substitute, if a substitute he necessary ; and if called upon, I think I could propose a much better tax. (Hear, hear) In the condemnation of this tax we are supported by the opin ions expressed by tine present Chancellor of the Exche- Tier, the noble lord the President of the Board of Con trol, the right hon. baronet the bead of the Colonies, the right hon. the member for the University of Oxford, the noble lord the member for London, and many other din t.n;uished statesmen and sound polit oil economies Tais objectionable tax, therefore, cannot long continue; it has no defenders of its pr nciple, and is inevitably doomed. It has varied in amount per lb. since it was first proposed, and up to 18.32 was 31. per lb. on printed paper. linuiediately on the reduction from 31. to 10. the lb. the consumption of the article doubled, and it• price was ceeselerably !educed. Paper with a du•y of 31. per lb. was charged 1 . to the pubic; the same quality, with a dq:y of lil., may Low be bought for RI per lb. (Hear.) This decrease of duty has had a marvelous t freet on the pu lications issued from the press, and has been the We may theerfere fair thelpyrocdounecelupdre.pthoartti,,n means of diffu•m gcons id erable it,foirmatien to the people. yirc vuhl la entire em aboii rtion ficial 1 o f e the h d a u v t e y h w e r o c u ., id 6 r, a publication ong t lnea c r the working people amounting llion per week, paying a duty of 30 per cen t . on i ts cost of pro duction. if this publication paid no duty it would be considerably improved in its character of usefulness, and produce greed , ' increa , ed benefit to the population. The duty paid on a t'iree-volume novel is not 1 per cent. Having quo ed letters from publishers of various cheap journals, deprecating the continuance of the paper duty, thethe ehxocni.semienmvoblevre pr an oc e e x e t d ra ed ex t p o en say : se of Th e ( regulation s least egultin 2,0001. ao s pe c! annum, besides decreasing the quality of the publication, r t e o s p a e higher ctg t the u p t h a o p yd—u duty. e C H J e ra r a m i i s E s a i o b n l e u r e a o l f o E w x ce tonne u book lately placed in the hands of All the members of the STIN, education, where were they to go for the paper duty? (Hear.) Nothing would remain to charge but the waste paper, and really it would not be worth while to keep up all the machinery of the excise for what that would produce. The objection to the ways and means might be met by a reduction in the public expenditure, espe , cially in the army and navy, the cost of which depart ments, which averaged millions a-year previous to the late war, now amounted to 25,000,000/. a-year. He trusted that the present Government would exert them selves to bring down the expenditure of the country within reasonable limits, and that they would give an assurance to the house that one of the first benefits re sulting from their adoption of a policy of economy should be the remission of the duty on paper. (Hear.) Mr. COWAN, as a paper manufacturer, could con firm the statement of his right hon. friend as to the effect of the duty on the export of raper, and though there was now no positive interference with the process of manu facture, there was still a considerable and injurious dis tinction resultiog in the system of labelling. Tae tax operated most prejudicially upon literature, and was most partial in its application. Indeed, it was difficult now to say what was paper. Three or four years ago a gentle man took out a patent for an improved parchment, but the excise interfered, and insisted that the manufac ture was paper, and liable to the duty. The question came on for trial in the Court of Exchequer ; but after a long investigation it was impossible to say whether the article was paper or not, and a verdict having passed for the Crown, a new trial was granted on account of the doubt in which the matter was involved. There was a spelling-book published, the material being cloth so closely woven that few persons were able to detect whether it was the produce of the loom or the paper mill. Was it not, too, an anomaly that cotton waste, which was formerly carted away as refuse, now that it was employed in the making of paper, should be subject to a dray six times the amount of the , . which was charged upon the cotton as it came originally from America I (Hear, hear.) He would not advocate any measure that should endanger the public credit, but he could not forget that if they were under an engagement to the public creditor, they were also under a long standing engagement to the paper ma nufacturers and the public in reference to this tax, which ought to be discharged. The paper tax and the soap tax were imposed together as war taxes in the time of Queen Anne. A. few years ago the soap duty was remitted, and he hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be pre pared to carry out the remainder of the pledge of the Government of Queen Anne by abolishing the paper duty also. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER regarded the paper duty as one of those taxes which, as soon as a faveurah'e opportunity arose, ought to be erased from the statute-book. Looking at the operation of the tax in a moral, commercial, and literary point of view, he should be glad if he could feel it consistent with his duty to re commend that it be at once remitted ; but, like all other remissions of taxation, it must depend on the position of the minister in reference to the steteof the public finances at the time. He could not ascent to the resolution as proposed by the right hon. gentleman. To one part of it he could offer so objection, though he could see no great use in making ouch a declaration. He agreed with the right hon. gentleman that the maintenance of the excise on paper as a permanent source of revenue would be impolitic ; but he could cot agree with him that such financial arrangements might be made as would enable Parliament to dispense with that tax. By carrying such a resolution the house would hamper and cripple the Government in a manner which he did not think fair or politic. (Hear, hear ) The paper tax w as not the o n ly tax which in th e two great sources of revenue derived from indirect taxation required consideration and revi sion. Whether they looked at the customs or the inland revenues, notwithstanding the great changes and im provements which had been made in the mode of raising the means for meeting the public exeenditure during the last 10 years—he might say the last 25 yettrs—in these two branches, there was in both much that required consideration and great room for improvement. There were many dutiesia the curt one that did not pay for the cost of collection. No one would say that was a state of affairs which it was desirable permanently to main tain. (Hear,) There were claims too in connexion with the customs revenue, in reference to bonding, which re quired consideration and revision. In the sister branch cf indirect revenue, the inland taxes, there were like wise many subjects the consideration of which could not be delayed, and the revision of which was much re quired, including the whole question of drawbacks and credits. The drawback on paper called for serious at• tention nod alteration, and he was not prepared to say that the tax itself was not entitled, if not to immediate, at least to early consideration. But the subjects were so numerous that it would become the duty of the Government to subject both these branches of revenue to an early and searching examination. In the course of the recess the subject would he taken into considera• tion, and he hoped when Parliament met for the next session to be in a position to offer some suggestion to the house which he trusted would meet with approval. But he hoped the house would nos hamper the Govern ment in the course they intended to pursue by passing a resolution which could not but cripple their efforts to im prove and to simplify that part of the revenue which was derived from indirect taxation. One hon. gentleman who had spoken, and who looked to the remission of this tax more as a matter of course than lie thought circum stances justified hien in doing, had indicated a reduction of the public expenditure as the means by which any de• ficiency arising from such remission might be supplied. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had on former occasions urged upon the house the importance of bear• ing in mind that great reductions in the public establish ments could not be accomplished in a moment. (Hear.) In the naval and military establishments especially any reduction of importance required a long course of pre paration, and preparation arising from circumstances that were not mere circumstances of routine. (Hear.) Tne public expenditure of the country—as he had before remarked—depended upon the pubic policy, and it was only by the establishment of a policy that they could ultimately and considerably affect the expenditure either way. (Rear.) He hoped the policy pursued by her Majesty's Government in respect to their foreign rela tions had not been of such a character as could give the house any reason to suppose that they were anxious to encourage any vast expenditure in the naval and military establishments ; and that if by a fair and well considered scheme of economy they could find the means for a remission of taxation they would be indisposed to adopt it. (Hear.) When circumstances in due course would allow such reduction of expenditure no one would mere gladly hail such a state of affairs than himself, and no one would be more delighted to propose that reduc tien in the public burdens which would be the natural consequence. But he hoped the house would not ham per the Government by passing a resolution respecting any item of taxation upon which it was obvious that they could not act. It was quite impossible that they could at the present moment deal with the paper duty. What might be their position next year it was impossible to say. Why, then, should they seek to bind the Go vernment in respect to that or any other particular tax? There were various considerations which must operate with the Government when they came to deal with the finances of the ensuing year before they could decide upon a question of this nature. Under any circumstances it would be impolitic and inexpe dient, and practically most unfair to a Govern ment which did not seek to conceal its general opinion that this was a tax which ought not to form a permanent source of revenue—(hear)—and which they would be glad of the opportunity to remit, to fetter them by a resolution of this kind. (Hear.) He trusted, therefore, that the right hon. gentleman would be satin question f a i r l y b e f ore the fled with having brought the house and the country, and that he would not press the resolution to a division. (Cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT did not complain of the right hon. gentleman's speech, for it ias much the sort of speech that any Chancellor of the Exchequer might hive been expected to make. His right hon. friend (11Ir. Gibson) must feel satisfied that his case was now so good that no attempt was made to reply to it. (Hear.) He thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer attached too much importance to the danger of hampering a Govern ment by a resolution of this kind—for he thought if the right hon. gentleman would look back for a few years only he would find an instance where his right hon. friend induced him and many of his friends to vote for a similar resolution with respect to the newspaper stamp duty, from which no such danger resulted, and the effect of which resolution was to bring about the remission of the duty. (Hear.) His right hon. friend's object now was to put on record in like manner the opinion of the house that when the state of the Treasury would permit it the Chancellor of the Exchequer cf the day, and he (Mr. Bright) hoped it would be the right hon. gentleman— (hear, hear)—might take this particular tax as the first. to be got rid of. (Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman had referred to the customs duties, but he was no more anxious than his right hon. friend (hlr. Gibson) or him self to abolish the obnoxious and unproductive duties to which be alluded. It was easy, however, to show that the abolition of a tax of a million in the customs branch of the revenue would not afford anything like the relief to the public that this excise duty of the same amount would give. The paper duty WAS a tax which operated as a code of pains end penalties on 300,000 or 400,000 persons who were engaged in carrying on a useful and important occupation. He did not believe it was pos sible for those who had had nothing to do with the ex cise to form an idea of the intolerable nuisance of having an exciseman constantly about their premises. (Hear, hear) They were t.ld that they were living in a frees country ; but if they attempted to manu'aeture paper, excisemen might come in, go through their premises whenever they pleased, and nthfere with all they did. That was not what freeman in a free country ought to be exposed to. There were 300,000 or 400,000 persons engaged in that trade who had a right to come and ask for a remission of this duty. Notmtly could say that there was any trade more important with reference to instruction, tee rot vaneement of the people, and to good order, than the trade cf making bsoks and newspapers, and) et, a ft er re li ev i ng the cotton manufacturer from a small tax, you c tme upon tide trade with a tax cf a most onerous characti r. o.le fact had been related by an eminent publi-her, v:z., that in 20 years he had paid 80 0001. to where and autheso, and in the same time he had paid 50,0001. to the Government in the shape of paper duty. Aus lion remitted on each of the duties on tea and sugar would not he half the relief that this single million of duty on paper would be. He knew a respectable paper manufacturer in the neighbourhood of 13miniugharn who paid 120/, a year in wages to men whose whole duty was to wait continually on the exciseman. With regard to the question of school books, there was a fact be wished to mention, which, if the hon. gentleman the member for the uatest;• versity of Dublin wa s pr e s e nt, he could bear f hie - loony to, that out of every thousand school books pub. lished by that univ e rsity, and there were none better— not leas than 250, er one-fourth of the whole, were seizal by the exciseman for the duty on paper. There was one single fact more he wished to mention before be concluded. His right Lon. friend bad referred to a 22, Country Blarkets. CHELMSFOR Oar market this morning w a limited business was done. tD—JvNE 18. Its fairly attended, and 04 Wheat,white old,per s. s. of or. si qr.4o 48 Oats, per qr 24 41 new.... 40 48 Peas, Partridge 43 48 old 37 44 White 40 4 1 new.... 36 41 Boiling 4l 4 6 Barley 34 40 Dun 43 1 Chevalier 38 44 Beans 9 , Tiek 3 7 41 Grinding .........,28 32 I Harrow ticks 3, 1 31 Malt 70 73 lifazagan.......: 31 Chevalier 72 731 Ditto, new...o' red, NORWICH—JuNE 19. A fair supply of wheat, but the trade was dull, stt - ot is to 2s under last week's rates. Barley firm. ' articles difficult to quit. COLCHESTER— JUNE 19. o t° There was a small supply of English wheat, and the , 1 rates maintained. 600 Prices to-daywere as follow :—Wheat, white, 463 ,t O O red, 423 to 465; barley, —8 to ; oats, t:63 to 30s ; u0 ph Mazagan, 38s to 403 ; middle and sma ll , 42s to 44 3; P" white, 42s to 448 ; grey, 448 to 463. Official Statement of the Quantities of Corn, &c in the port of London, from the following p J une 14 to June 19, both inr' re. 10 ,0 g r rjoi o )rte, June 11 to J une 19, both inolusiv -- . 7 i ,-.. .„1g a g ° I 9 . 73 i g g 4 ' X 0 4 i ~, 4 , o ---- Colchester T 5 25 ----- H -- - ---' 4 6(1 Harwich 298 378 .--' -- Leigh 618.1(lon SIRKCALDY—JUNE 19. wh i°l3 We had small suppli es o f w h eat and oats to-day,. tll° sold at much the same as last week. Little barley 1 market. Wheat. Barley. I Oats. 1 13°° O g OIP First Second Third OO A 343 Od I —s 01 f 22e 0 , 1 I _.....r, BIRTHS. t " lop GRANT—On the 21st inst., at Chest e r-pl a ce, .. e .' 6 park, th e w if e o f Th omas G . G rant, E sq., o f a ao'„'„ork LUSRINGTON—On the 16th inst., a t Sh ru b' s -hill, 147 0 1 burst, Hampshire, the Lady Margaret Lushington, daughter. t yl MARTIN—On the 20th inst., at 14, Berkeley-50 1 ' re ' wife of John Martin, Esq., M.P., of a son. MARRIAGES. MINASI—CooKE —On the 18th inst., at Cavershara'dotit fordehire, Frederic James Minasi, of Islington. 1-4° o ll ol o ' to Eleanor, youngest daughter of the late Gabriel of Norfolk. A r s ,r l L 9 ' PINCHES—HOOPI R —On the 18th inst St..." — rtie . Kennington, William B. Pinches, Esq., of St. -Die,7 o . lane, and 22, Terrace, Kenniugton-park, to Hooper, second daughter of the late Robert L. Esq., M.D., of Newington-butts. DEATHS. g h l ; BRADY—On the 15th inst., at Hazelbrook, t" road, county Dubli n , Eii z t b o th A nne , the wire - Right Hon. Maziere Brady. c o lliO' Coumr—On the 18th inst., at Belmont, Esq., of Hastin g s. on, pf DAWSON —On the 20th inst., Mrs. Harriet DO Harleyford-place, and 96, Fenchurch-street. G ore LAMBERT--On the 19th inst., at Hastings:gr.',...erol s ' L anbert, of Leadenhall-markot, and 3, Barro . ' Stoke Newington, aged 6 0 . Michael IZ° °ll. ROBINSON—On the 21st inst., at Whitworth, 1 1 / 00 0 dale, the Rev. Richard Robinson, formerly of Essex, aged 61. 40 11° TH E LLIISSON —On the 15th inst., at B a th, the Eton' Monosson, aged 58. ..._=- 0 LONDON Printed and Publi s h e d b y MURDO Y °7:o of No. 112, Strand, P r i n t er , a t rhe sun adit' o pif 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the cs 2 of Middlesex, Tuesday, June 22, 1858. G IN )rich Arsenal C4l:llroencing London, Jm GR EA EXCE SUNDAY, Jw IrOrn Bristol ILO 75.; Bath, AVEYN. T SAGES to GU every TUESE f rom WEYMO DAY,,.. and Fl unernsey); wi From P: From W Steward Tilt' ougl bo( Western Railw 20th May, 18 "O UR TWE the Possossion autidipnte the 1 Gib hag of Souni --Warehouses, SCHWE: t-- , SELTZE Eery Bottle of Cork with their rectloners, and Liverpool,:Brisi CF. E • Bond-s f ti overeigns and waPression whit retired, or is ab< entirely unfou tiretnent and sel end -street, but been, in any wa: METR ASSUE Glace. London. %XIS Oil advanta IT.B. Policies Assured within I 4 eing deducted t) i NORTE Establisl PRESIDENT - Sir P. JOHN Solicitor, AL Capital of One Revenue from I Rine -tenths or givided among th, All Profit &lid re Profits of Sew Inure division of The Bonus acct ' 0 Per cent, on th 4. Bank Buildln ItOYAL (Established For S OFFICE ERA George Sir John V t r enry Bainbridge hn Garrett C*tt V V i ward Maxwell] lliam Davidson, e Pixander Druce, Lartos Farquhars t i Veradale Wm. G n E bert Amadeus dliam Tetlow ID ,lnes Stewart Ho taLLICeIOt MEDICAI , IT OTICE.—The us "Olnns falling due FIRE and LIFE kiratlon on advent In the Life Depa 42 Profits, or, at to The Reversioner !Per cent. per am premiums paid. k E quivalent redin "Y Persons who pre The future divisi AnY sum not cxc This Corporation Liberal Pert liabilities of pa A. rate of Bo ties —with the The advanta Office whose rt nearly a Centu I IN CASE OF I) 4 1. Payment of a en made, the Cor :Nirided the premi ‘ 4 Y from that upon INTERNAI SOCIETY, 14 i n ' n edlB37.—Paymo Z.,3llbeen and stilt is ,7111eles of assurane, k n tr ing within the the premium, pt e death be given , true. THE Ir `MPO'syered by Act VIVORSIIII v , EDMOND vnt. Kenworthy oittnttel Klnr-Cht John ElliotiOn. A F.H.B. l'rofessor WhQat I. Elliotson, W. S. 8.1 Mmars. GI kesare. Gre;ory, The nest Qtenqt '113:,1860. P o li cy talon lqt in Age. !838 4841 1 845 1 848 1851 The following arc Tonal Life Assur The Society was xvro-thirds of th Ir , Years. ata subscribed ca; ,Its investments. ( 4:1 e hundred and .... I t3 annual incom The number of p be.kbout one thous: „." 16 1nce its commet three hundred al hs _ ur prospectuses 142, Strand. 1 42 Straud, Lou lI LV AND IMF -, mirit Office Seal c RIESEMAR N Iliarmacten de 1,7 old of taste or v. 1,1 1n tin cases, d 'strieva Lll • u, unin lESENI. p e LAXATIO t‘seg, uences arisi residence i . !' ) R-th and vigou j p -b v,, In the enJoym ettover may tic taliE, they are tt• t tctally, in the Olie.ates all tract Glees, Stri , 1. Pains of Ili I .„l , Vivl and Cuba, '4 of the health 14 4 tir t .n, grT at Cont It also con ti - La neous Erupt', 4,1 4 + and impuriti t h ' virus of disco 11,,L .°42 fih the med kr remc Physi, 1 1 %/3 of the patient orld cannot :Part of the kii which save 2 s. Sold by t r U i rl _lett Ilowoer, le) ; Watts, I "x• street - '"ls. St. Paul's U TAN brie , is., post free ti7lions of Valpe, , 4 1 24 for the perfc 4 ruents from 4 t i c ut(!ful results fi 11 ,!9ei lts arising iatoza, by tl " s .,' l . The Autl „ae Book,—Sol lryrn all agcl 1