The Sun. — London, England, 1829-06-03 00:00:00

,strength of the kingdom., By the.official returns it appeared that, in 1827, there were 470,000 fisher ,. men employed in the fisheries on the coast and lakes of,Scotland, arid that altogether there were upwards of 80,000 persons employed in carrying and packing' the herrings, to which were to be added 50,000 sailors emplo3ed in the deep-sea fisheries, and in • conveyieg them after they were cured to distant parts of the world. There were 100,000 men to be sacri ficed to the doctrines of political economy, of which Dr. Smith was the father, but ‘vhose authority was not against a bounty on the Herring Fisheries ; nor even was that of his commentator, the purest or the Purists, Mr. M'Culloch, who considered it contrary to sound policy that these bounties should be made to cease too soon. Ile besought his Majesty's Go vernment and Parliament to avert the impending ruin of these fisheries, and agree to the prolongation of the bounties, which only tended to lower the price of herrings in the home market. Colonel WILSON seconded the motion. Sir SCROPE MORLAND shortly supported the petition), and stated the distress of the fisheries of Cornwall was spreading and severe. Mr. BERNAL stated that Norwegian herrings Were sellin g at st. Thomas's, and other islands in the West Indies, and in this country, at 12s. a ,barrel ; arid he b e li eve d t h ey m i g h t b e h a d even at alf a.guinea a barrel, for they were sent from Copen hagen to the Danish settlement of St. Croix, for that price, including all shipping charges. Mr. H USKISS ON was averse to the continuance of bounties, which had little to do with the prosperity of the fisheries. ,-Mr. P ENDARVES confirmed the s t a t ement o f the Hon. Member for St. Mawes, its to the distress of the Cornish fisheries. 'Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD must, on the part of his Majesty's Government, give the answer to the application of the lion. Member for Kircrid bright which he had given when the petition was presented to the Board of Trade. If the petitioners had anything to suggest for the benefit of the fishe ries, it must be of a different nature from bounties— a suggestion against the principle adopted by Parlia ment for carrying on the trade of the country. He felt it his duty to resist any departure from that principle. Mr: W. SMITH argued against the system of bounti es . Mr. BRIGHT, on the other hand, doubted very much whether the application of the principles of free trade to our fisheries would be beneficial. The petition was then brought up, read, and or dered to be printed. BRITISH CLAIMANTS ON FRANCE. On the motion of Mr. BERNAL, various Returns Were ordered to be laid before the House, respecting the funds provided by the French Government for the British claimants on France. P ARLIAMENTARY REFORM. The Marquis of BLANDFORD, in rising to move certain resolutions on the subject of Parlia mentary, Ref orm , a dd ressed the Speaker to the fol -I°wltig effect : Sir, I should observe that in cour tesy to former advocates of this measure, I would willingly have left it in their hands, for it seems right and reasonable that those who have argued so powerfully against decayed boroughs and proprietary lufluence should go on with their own work; but as theythe seem to h ave declined the patriotic undertaking, conviction I feel of its pressing necessity is too Powerful for me to heed the charge of temerity in thus presuming to succeed to their office. We shall now see who are the declaimers, and who the doers, in the work of Parliamentary regeneration; we shall now see who are true and steady to their pur- Poses, and who would wish to give those purposes a long adjournment ; it will now be seen who are stre nuous in their wishes to purify Parliament, and pro tect t h e great interests of the country. The ques tion has been now for some time laid upon the shelf; the B ills and d ra f ts of B i lls w hi ch have been pre pared a re now, from long neglect, covered with dust and buried in oblivion. Hon. Gentlemen, the for mer friends and advocates of the measure, may, if they please, bestow upon Ministers the compli tnent of their silence, but I do not feel disposed to imitate their courtesy. Every day's experience Proves the necessity of some measure of this sort. The country expects, I may say demands, some statutory provision for the safety of its interests— tile interests of its agriculture, its trade, its manu factures, its finance, and especially the interests of t he Protestant community, against the influx and in t'rease of the Roman Catholic party. The whole in ternal constitution of this House has been revolu tionized. This new state of things requires new en actments. An imperious necessity has been super ridded,, to the a l rea d y ex i st i ng propr i ety o f putt i ng "own the Borotushmonger and his trade; our rights !Ind ou r lib ert i es are in jeopardy as long as majorities In t his House are to be obtained by buying seats and ng service s; an d t h oug h I may f a il on t hi s oc easi" establishing upon the minds of a majority of this /l ouse a conviction of this truth, I shall per severe in ray efforts to expose the corruption, and p r oclaim the danger of these practices. Sir, it may Perh aps he thought that the magnitude of this iltlestion, and t h e sp l en did e l oquence o f i ts f ormer t.. tt dv o cates, sh ou ld h ave deterred me f rom ras hl y em - Z r king upon the consideration of it. But though I Or "Y despair of doing it justice, I feel its importance, t . rather its necessity, too strongly to leave the f Htig. unattempted through a consciousness of o n ; and in asserting and advocating my f peculiar views of it, lam fully prepared ft th e , i neo —s lnputation that those views are er ns-thatat my fears are groundless—and that measures and means of reform which I would tir°P°se are neither called for by the exigency of the tl es, nor by th e ex i stence o f any rea l d anger f rom ofe projects of the Roman Catholic body. I speak Slatthat body, Sir, as a large political party in the tl i e * I speak not of individuals—of individuals of h at body I would say that there is no one in this 011 ° ,,ase more ready than I am to admit their honour an integrity; but I am speaking of a large class f u r denomination of individuals—a large and power- Poli tical party o f s i x or seven m illi ons o f men— e. t e r t.Y ackn ow l e d g i ng a common h ea d an d centre r ett a el ll , l °n, a spirit ua l S overe i gn , an d t h at S o V ere i gn -in g ill a fo re i gn , country . Int such a state of % l ts, and un d er such an intermixtnre • of foreign i t tidnniestic relations, I shall continue to think that lio n t he Part of pru d ence to prevent t h e accumula wh Of Roman Catholic power in this House. Those liab l lll aY be disp ose d to r idi cu l e t h ese opin i ons are Aat n e r t ° he told th a t t h ey are us i gnorant o f h uman t i; e and the wor ki ngs o f party sp i r i t as t h ey are tett le energies o f t h e R om i s h Ch urc h . A s soon as iviit i L e men of th at persuas i on enter t h e H ouse, t h ey cori er f ound to form a pa r ty. Th a t p ar ty w ill b e eetimded by th e R oman Catholics of Great Britain ,Ireland as their re a l R e pre se nt a ti ves — as th e thei r defenders of their nights, the vindicators of t heir i w rellga, the p romo t ers o f t h e i r wishes and oth er ''Opes. This Roman Catholic party, like all g e -134111 es , both in anal out of this House, will be 11.° 48 Of increasing i ts po li t i ca l strengt h ; an d loo k • kiie t : t he energy of that body, its union of purpose, will tet 'sive co-operation, lam convinced th a t th e y 84 cu ter th e borough market with better chances and 4 4 ib ellos of purchase than any of their competitors. of, thi n this House will be bought up by the agents slid v _ Wealthy, powerful, and enterprising body, e add o u as .to their county strength in Ireland will b . 'end burgage lecture strength in this country , ',eat si the Whole number of Representatives will pre ny 0 - well -ordered and compact phalanx, animated t i lle sA spurt, and impelled to the same measures by In% otives and purposes. Let it not be night, Sire that I am disposed to contend dint any keratoei.diete danger is to be apprehended from the i f tl l ttl de of their numbers in this House (though Pear-,r,eParts which circulate be true, it would ap airek4uat th e system which I am foretelling has I le • made a b eg i nn i ng ). B ut Id o conten d, that I t rill 4 4 re owi ent bound t o wa it till danger threatens. etti Proceed t o a f ar moreimportant and inte fetii:g division o f my sub j ect, and I do so tinder t lett eo Blo f less embarrassment and greater confi v eati t t "au those I have experienced while endeai g to enf orce the view already presented. ' cannot but entertain a reasonable . hope that a large i roughs, m en w h ose sp l en did an d useful talent' are should remain as it was. His conviction was the portion of the Members o f this House will be dis- devoted t o t h e we lf are o f t h e i r country, and whose contrary. When the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo posed to agree wit!: me upon the general principles, ' votes h ere are t h e b est recor d s of their independ- . site had introduced the Catholic Relief Bill, he bad even thou g h they isl a d,' no t be of opinion that I ence and politi ca l i ntegr i t y. B u t is it f a i r to i n f er, boldly stated, that it was his firm conviction, that have made out ii , y ease for the necessity of Reform because a j u di c i ous or f ortu i tous sit ua ti on ha s : th e majority of the popular parts of the representa by the sp ec ial woun d s I h ave taken. It; Sir, in the sent such men to Pa:li , iment, that, from a system 1 tion were decidedly inclined towards Catholi c E rna' , days of Locke, and ,till l ater i n t h e d a y s of Black- based on corruption, and acting in perpetual viola- cipation. For the principles of free trade he (Mr. s t one , this measu re w e r e d ee m e d expedient (and I tion of the best principles of the Constitution, any Hobhouse) had always been an advocate, only thi n k_ a pp e al to both th ese wr i ters for support upon this : order of thing ran arise in which evd will not ing that it had not been carried far enough, an d on l y p o i n t), subsequent events, and increased and in-' greatly preponderate over good; and would lamenting that it had not been introduced soon er . creasing evils, mak e t h e measure nos y a measure of the abolition of close Boroughs involve the! Whoever the Noble Lord might have referred to, necessity and not of expediency. I t i s no l onger t o exclusion of such men ? On the contrary, wh e n he spoke of the person who had deserted the he tolerated that the b e st i n t eres ts of the country, the representation being transferred to popu- , post of Parliamentary Reform, he (Mr. Hobhouse) and the dearest rights of t h e su bj ect , an d, I will lons places, would f ac ili ta t e t h e i r approach to ' would say, that as long as he had a seat in that add, the most valuable p r i v il eges o f this Hous e , Parliament, and their return wo u ld be effected in a House, he should not be found wanting in any are to be compromised and en d a ngered by borou g h manner much more hon oura bl e t o themsel ves , and crisis, or on any o ccas i on , to support t h at quest i on. contractor., and sellers of seats in Parliament. therefore more congenial to their feelings. From He would be the last man to inquire into what w ere B u t l et H o nou r able Members listen to the words 1 the time of Richard the Second, all historical records the motives of him who brought the question for war d, of Lo c k e hi mse lf upon this question—" It be- establish the fact that the Commons were rendered but he should give it his firm and zealous supp or t. i ng th e i n t eres t as well as the intention of the corrupt by means of undue influence at elections. i The eloquent predecessor of the Right Ho n . secre people to have a fair and equal representation, who- Amongst the names of those who, on these grounds, tary, in his place in that House had said, that in ever brin e s it nearest to that is an undoubt e d f r i en d advocated the necessity of R e fo rm , we find Camden, whatever shape th e quest i on o f R e f orm were pro to, a nd esta bli s h er o f, th e G overnmen t, an d cannot Saville, Chatham, Pitt, Grey, Fox, Sheridan, Burke, posed, it should find in him a determined and unicorn miss th e con s e nt and approbation of the commu- and Erskine; and in one sentence of Erskine's, we promising opponent. It was not so upon th e pre nity ;" and again he says—" It is not a change i find the spirit of th e s p eec h es an d the writings of sent occasion. The first objection of the Right Hon. f rom t h e present state, which, perhaps, corruption these great authorities : Mr. Erskine attributes to Gent. to the motion was, that the tim e of th e or decay has introduced, that makes an i nroa d upon undue elections—" that the House of Commons I S ession was not c onven i ent f or t h e I-l ouse to enter the Government, but the tendency of it to injure or i instead of being that for which it was intended, a I tain a subject of such magnitude. Mr. Canning, o n o pp ress th. e people, and to set up one part or party controul on the Crown, had become the great engine the contrary, always endeavoured to treat the ques with a distinction from, and an unequal subjection ,of its power." Lord Bolingbroke, at an earlier t tion as one of total insignificance —a quest i on too of the rest. Whatsoever cannot but be ac k now - p er i o d, too k a s i m il ar v i ew of the necess i ty o f R e- insignificant to rend er i t o f any cons equence w h et h er e ledged to be of advantage to the society, and people form, and called the attention of the country to the it were introduced at the beginning, in the middle, in general, upon just j and lasting measures, will al- stat e to whi c h it m i g h t b e re d uce d b y " a d esperate or at the end of the Session. If the House was ways, when done, justify itself; and whe never t h e Mi n i ster , a b ette d b y a mercenary fact i on, an d sup- thin, he said it was so muc h t h e b etter, f or i t t h e people shall choose their representatives upon just ported by a standing army." Let us suppose, then, better held up the subject and its supporters to the and undeniable equal measures, suitable to the ori- a venal Parliament—such as Lord Bolingbroke de- ridicule of the country. For the question of Par ginal frame of the Government, it cannot be doubted J scribes—let us suppose a "desperate Minister," liamentary Reform, lie (Mr. Hobhouse) should say to b e th e will and act of the society, whoever per- i rash, ambitious, impetuous and powerful, overbear- that the present was a full Hous e . It was a full m itt c d or caused them to do so." But, Sir, I will ing to his colleagues, haughty and imperious to the House for any question, considering the man ner i n not now en t er upon any wide survey of this question Commons, insidious amongst his equals, dictorial to which Members had attended to subjects a t th e l a tt er —I will not now touch upon the nature of suffrage, his sovereign, despotic to the people, and reckless part of the Session. Indeed it was difficult to get nor Will I, seek to determine the p r i nc ipl e b y w i ne ', of th e i r remonstrances—to whom would such tie a faller attendance at any period of the Session. the right of voting should be regulated; neither will Minister add ress hi mse lf w h en a b ou t t o force a The Right Hon. Secretary opposite, whose powerful I enter further upon what has been called the Philo- measure repugnant to the people ? To the great advocacy had been exerted upon various occasions, soppy of Representation, -nor attempt by statistical Borough Proprietor, knoning well that there are had ever been himself a decided opponent to ca lc u l at i ons t o settle how many Members should be t two codes of Parliamentary honour; one by which we Parliament ar y Refo r m; h e h a d, i n d ee d, o bj ecte d , returned by the landed, how many by the moneyed, j are exonerated from all promises or pledges,no matter not to the principle, but to the time and mode of in how many by the trading interest. Plans for the how so'emnly given to our constituents in a body, troducing it. He (Mr. Hobhouse) confessed that he speedier returns of Members upon new elections, though they amount to tho usa nd s , when soever it may was one of those wild reformers adverted to by the and for the limitation of the duration of Parliament, suit us to change our political creed; the other, by Hon. Member for Wiltshire, who were anxious to shall form no part of my present purpose. I w ill which w e are b oun d t o our single aristocratic con- introduce that wild reform so much condemned by confine myself to matters much more simple ill stituent. If we viol a t e th e most trifling pledge to him.—(Hear, hear !)—He wished the most wide themselves, and consequently more easy for state- him, we are considered as highly dishonourable; and extended Reform, but he was not prepared to ment. My wish, Sir, is to witness the extinction I and if we have any com p unct i ous v i s i t i ngs o f con- refuse th e most narrow an d li m i te d R e f orm ; h e of close and decayed boroughs, and to transfer thei r science, we must conso l e ourse l ves i n t h e Chiltern should feel thankful for anything which he could Representations (as it may be settled hereafter) to Hundreds. There are some exceptions—it is true, obtain, without, however, abstaining from a perse other places; to what places, towns, or counties, we may see a Government very h o no ur ably ac- verance in seeking all that he wishei The lion. and in w h at me asure and proportion to each, must quiescing in a freedom of opinion in, some of those Member concluded by sheaving, that if the motion be left to be considered in Committee. But the attached to it—it is true, we may see an independent of the Noble Marquis stopped short with getting rid extinction of these proprietary seats, this burg-age Nobleman, un i n fl uence d b y t h e a ll urements o f office, of the small Boroughs, without a more general Re tenure influence, is called for by the injuries and and, w h a t is a far greater trial, unbiassed b y th e ties form, he feared he should be unable to support it. mischiefs it inflicts on the country. C an t h ere b e of friendship, registering his vote in a manner that Mr. Secretary PEEL, in explanation, said that any t hi n e more monstrous, Sir, than that seven entitles him tolthe approbation and the confidence of he had abstained front entering into the det a il s o f e l ec t ors , headed by the parish constable (I allude to his country—but we may riot argue from particular the question, because he did riot think th e ll oase Gatton) should send two Hon. Members to this instances to universal conclusions. To whom, next, entertained an appetite for it. H ouse , an d th a t two more should represent the in- would this Minister apply ? 'To him who bought After a few words from Mr. HOBITO USE , Mr. W. his seat, and mi g ht b e sa id a l most to h ave o b ta i ne d S terestitig ruins and well-peopled sheep-folds of MITI!, and the Marquis of BLANDFORD in reply, Sarum ? What reason can we discover in the na- a right to dispose of his vote to his own private the House divided— ture of things, or in the principles of representation, advantage. How long, Sir, is this shameful system For the Motion 4O why some Hon. Members in this House should to be upheld ? How lo ng s h a ll we cont i nue to see , Against it ll4 have neither houses nor inhabitants to represent— as in the days of Mr. Fox, men, and men of honour Majority why others should only represent individuals—why too—the one having paid, an d t h e ot h er rece i ve d, EAST RETFORD. there should be so many whose ecristituents do not 5 ,0001. for a seat in Parliament—voting side by side Mr. H.' PANE rose to present two petitions exceed ten ? Can th ere , Sir, b e an y thi ng i n more for the imprisonment of a starving manufacturer, from East Retford, praying that the House would open defiance of common sense and political expe. who, to save his family from perishing, had sold his not pass a Bill for the disfranchisement of that dieney than that 3.54. voters should send 56 Mem- vote for a single pound ? Custom and impunity borough, but that a new writ be iss ue d ; th e y corn hers to Parliament (a ninth part of the whole House may familiarize men with crime, but they are not Plaine(' that they had laboured under the difficulty of Commons ?) What c ause can be found either in palliatives for it. Close boroughs are notoriously of being three years without a representative. the mineral or the agricultural wealth of Corn wall bought and sold :to sell or buy a seat in this On the question that a new writ be iss ue d, that it should be so prolific of Hon. Members in this House is a gross violation of the law of the land.— Mr. LUMLEY said lie should support the House, although all the population of all the Cur- Peers are generally the borough proprietors. That motion. nish boroughs is not much greater than that of a Peer should even interfere at on election is a Mr. TENNYSON rose to move an amendment, Nottingham alone ? And, Sir, it must remain a breach of privilege—and that he should actually re- which he did the more willingly, when he recol subject of alarm to many, of surprise to all, that, turn the Member is incompatible with the inde- lected that this petition proceeded from the great according to a calculation taken in 1815, one-half Pendence of this House. Peers, from their wealth body of the corrupt electors of East Retford. The of the English arid Welsh Representatives in this and connections, have ample and natural influ. Hon- Member concluded by moving, " That a new House should be returned by about 11,000 per- ence in county elections, and all beyond that writ should not be issued until the end of fourteen sons, and the other half by above nine millions. is contrary to the wise and salutary principles days after the commenc e m en t o f next sess i on ." Sir, this is neither the time no r th e pl ace to en - of our Con s tit ut i on . Th e return o f a M ember - The intimated that such a resolution ter into nice verifications of facts; it is sufficient for a close borough is destructive of the tie which would be inefficient, as the House had no power to to lay grounds for future inquiry, and I believe it should subsist between constituent and representa- pledge itself in this Session to a certain course of will then appear that I have understated the ano- tive—it obviates the necessity of all communication conduct in the next. malies of our representation. But, Sir, the between them—and it enables men to enter the Mr. TENNYSON, under these circumstances, answer given to all this is, "it works well;" House of Commons as representatives of the peopl e , would content himself with giving a negative to the this has been the ready reply since the time that who have never on general questions publicly ex- motion. the late Mr. Canning's eloquence gave it currency, pressed any opinion whatever—a course which every Lord HOWICK, though convinced of the cor and made it popular. "It works well." True, it man is obliged to adopt at a public election. The ruption of the borough of East Retford, should does work very well for the jobbers in th e Borough- close borough system affords, as my Noble Friend vote for the motion. He was as much opposed as market; it does work very well for all who go on has clearly proved, a great facility to any body of any body to corruption in elections, but he did not to power, and profit, and distinction by the system ; men accumulating a capital, and leagued together for feel, and would not pretend to feel that indignation and I dare say Ministers will be the last to say it any purpose dangerous to the establishments of the which no man really felt against bribery of this stilt works ill. lint, Sir, it works destructively for the country, to send a body of men, whose sentiments in the present day. empire at large—it works destructively for the are unknown to the peopl e , i n to the House of Com- Sir JOHN BRYDGES thought a harsh mea country and its colonies—it works against every one mons, organised and acting in concert for purposes sure of punishment had been dealt out to this Bo of the great interests of the country—against the dangerous to our i n stitutions, and fatal to our liber- rough, in depriving it of its Elective Franchise, as well-being of its trade, its manufactures, its agricul- ties. Lastly—The purchase and sale of seats is a thereby many innocent persons suffered for the ture. Majorities, and (according to my views of glaring and disgraceful example to the lower or d ers cr i mes o f the guilty. B u t, as t hi s H ouse h a d come the questio ns w hi c h h ave b een carried) fatal ma- that rank and power carry with them imp un i ty f or to t h e resolution already so to act , t h e next step for jorities in this House, have been swelled by means guilt, and encourages them to consider a traffic in consideration was the best meatus to substitute a fit of this influ ence; an d w h at i s most m i schievous i s, votes justifiable on the score of precedent among representat i on i n li eu o f i t. H e confessed he did the existenc e o f suc h a system d egrades th i s House their superiors. Th ese , Sir, are my obj ec ti ons to a not ° m i n t conferring this privile g e on Bi rm i ng h am in the esti mat i on o f t h e peop l e—t i me Represents- system for which I think it presumptuous to s uggest wou ld b e th e b e st s t e p, an d h e was doubtful whe any remedy, until this House has come to a d ec i sion t h e y i t wa s desirous of i t . N o suc h desire had, at tive Body l oses t h e respect an d conf id ence o f t h e Body repres en t e d. I t i s to t hi s cause, Si r , t h at t h e that a disease exists. I beg leave to seco n d t h e l east , b ee n expr e ss e d t h at h e h ad heard of out of indignation of the country ascribes the success of the motion of my Noble Friend. this House ; it had been alone advocated in it. He Mr. JOHN BENETT trusted, from th e lib era - s h ou ld vo te a ga in s t t h e mot i on now under discus odious p r i nc ipl e o f F ree T ra d e; a pr i nc i p l e w hi c h , lity which the Government had evinced upo n many s i on : an d, con s id er i ng i t i mmater i al to the general if persist e d i n , w ill sprea d t h e d eso l at i on st ill f art h er which so f ear f u ll y preva il s, an d i s now press i ng so occasions, that some measure of Parliamentary R e - b ene fit o f the Empi re , w h et h er representatives be severely on our commerce . T o t hi s aga i n i s to be at - form would meet time approbation of the T reasury appo i nte d i n Bi rm i ng h am or the hundred of Basset- Benches in the next S e ssion. l aw, h e s h ou ld, w h enever t h at question carne under tributed the l argeness o f t h at ma j or i ty w hi c h l ate l y Mr. HUME thought that no man could o bj ect to t h e cons id era ti on o f t h e H ouse, g i ve his vote for overthrew th e C onst i tut i on , an d prove d to t h e peo pl e the motion. t h e l atter , becaus e h e cons id ered th i s was to inflict a how very littl e t h e i r prayers were h ear d or h ee d e d. Mr. PEEL felt bound to give time motion a n ega - l esse r punishment upon E ast Retford, than to de- How then, Si r , i s a system so m i sc hi evous t o be mended ? Whi c h are t h e most p ress i ng o f tive. He admitted that the Noble Lord h a d state d pr i ve it altogeth er o f army s h are i n the elective time question with temper and ability; a n d th e oppo - f ranc hi s e. its evils ? Wh ere s h ou ld t i me propose d re f orm begin? U nquest i ona bl y i n t i me ext i nct i on o f d e - sition he should give it did not i n time slightest d e - Lord OXMANTOWN did not think that cor cayed boroughs. Wh e th er t hi s s h ou ld b e e ff ecte d by gree abate the s a tisf a ctio n with whi c h h e h ear d t h e rupt i on had been p rove d to suc h an extent as to descendant of anwarrant the disfranchisement of the Borough ; but we Warrior, and the repro- . . compensation, or without compensation, and whether sentative of a Noble House, vindicate his opinions if the House should disagree from him, he should we should extend our inquiries to self-elected cor an ability worthy of the name he inherited.— then have no objection to transfer the franchise to porate bodies, possessing the rights of franchise, with will be matter for future discussion. But, Sir, vital Considering the nature of the subject, all must Birmin m D gbam N . CONI agree that it ought not to be brought forward when ....a.. _ Ifi. iBE should support the motion, interests are in the meanwhile at stake. The nation there was no time for deliberatio n , w h en th e H ouse as he thought the questi on oug h t to b e d eterm i ned. knows and feels it to b e so ; it f ee l s i t i n a ll t h e ramifications of its commerce, in all the el e m en t s o f was thin, and when it would have no opportunity of Mr. S YKES supported t h e mot i on . wealth and greatness—it feels in the ver y h u sb an d r y following up the motion by any p ract i ca l measure. ' Mr. URE took a contrary view of the case. • Lard W. RUSSELL agreed that the case of He conceived that the Noble Lord rather moved of its soil, time staple of its power and prosperity—and time resolutions with a view to an understanding .. East Retford was not one of peculiar delinquency, it feels, too, that it is not safe to trust to burgage that in the next Session he would renew the subject, ... inasmuch as rune-tenths of the Members of time tenures and proprietary influence what should be and go into details. At the present period, when he House were returned by the means now so severely confided to a chaster representation. The disease, no doubt, is of long standing, but the seat of it has r . . believed that in two days time public business would dep Fiatt.d. If an opportunity of g i v i ng t h e wr i t been well ascertained, and it will require no great , enable the House to adjourn, co u ld th e N o bl e Lord to Birmingham h a d o ff ere d i tse lf , he should most skill in political anatomy to r e move the parts expect that House t o assen t t o R eso l u tions readily have availed hi mse lf o f i t ; b ut as t h ere was affected : they cannot be cured—they must be cut that, which branded with disgrac e a cons id e rable no chance of he should vote for the is sue o f awa portion of the represent a ti ve s y s t em o f t hi s co un- the writ rather than throw the fran c his e i n t o th e Y try ? Time second Resolution affirmed the small Hundred. Boroughs to be a disgrace to the House.— Sir J. SEBRIGHT said that bad as he thought If he could admit this, he should not attempt to the Borough, it would be a worse evil to give the persuade the House to such an unqualified con. writ to the Hundred. demnation, without following up that condemnation Mr. N. CALVERT reprobated the petition and by some practical measure- But he was not pre- the guilty parties from whence it came. pare • dto allow that the small b oroug h s were a dis. Mr- BRIGHT was o f op i n i on t h at so muc h need grace to the House. Many of the trustees of small less delay had occurred in prosecuting the investi boroughs exercised the trust reposed in them with gation that it would be unjust to withal(' the honour to themselves and advantage to the country. writ until the protracted inquiry should be con- But if such boroughs were to be disfranchised, surely eluded. the House ought to be prepared with some plan by Mr. BROUGHAM partook very much in the which such forfeited franchises were to be exercised, feeling that this subject had been so often discussed By negativing the motion, the subject would not be that the House had good reason to be tired of it, lost; for a Noble Lord (Lord John Russell) had but he holed that it was now about to be brought given notice of a motion for the next Session, that to a close, at least far tile present. He could not the towns of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds, coincide in the reasons some Hon. Gentlemen had should be represented in that House. The House given for voting for the issue of the writ, although would be long before it condemned a part of the he arrived at the same conclusion by a different system by which it had often been enabled to over- road. He entertained sanguine hopes that the in come local prejudices. He was not sure that it was quiry regarding East Retford would be renewed in not by the aid of small boroughs that the question of the next Session, but in the mean time lie thought free trade and Catholic emancipation h a d b ee n car- there was no inconsistency in issuing the writ, and tied. It was hardly treating th e s u bj ec t with due on some accounts th a t course was preferable, inas consideration to introduce it at such a p er iod of the much as the investigation might hereafter be con- Session. ducted in the presence, and with the assistance of Mr. J. C. HOBHOUSE said, that if he thought two representatives, to guard the interests of the the introduction of army ref orm w ou ld make the borough. Such had bee n the course in t h e case of House less inclined to the grant of religious liberty Grampound, and he himself urged its propriety. to his country, he would rather that the House lt was one thing to vote that East Retford was cor- " Immedicabile vulnus Ense reeblendum, ne pars sineera trahatur." Entertaining, therefore, Sir, these sentiments, and impressed with a strong feeling, that in the existing ciretunsfitnces of the country (which it would be idle for any man to seek to disguise from himself), it would be expedient for the House not to separate, without evincing some disposition to take this ques tion into its consideration at no distant period, I have thought it my duty, at this eleventh hour, to direct the attention of Hon. Members to it ; and I shall conclude my present observations by conjuring them to bear in mind the ever-memorable words of Mr. Burke, as cites by Mr. Fox—" Representation (not the unreal mockery, but the efficient substance of Representation) is the sovereign remedy for every disorder, the infallible security against popular discontent." Mr. O'NEIL said, I rise to second the Resolu tions which my Noble Friend has so ably brought before the House; deeply impressed with their im portance, and fully aware of my own inability to do justice to the subject. The Reformation which my Noble Friend wishes to effect will not, it must be conceded, close all the sources by which corruption may taint this House; it cannot even be contended that the close Borough System is one of unmixed evil. A glance around us would offer a practical illustration that such a doctrine was fallacious; for we see amongst the Representatives of close Bo- rupt, and ought, therefore, to be disfranchised by • statute, and another for the House of Commons to declare, that without the concurrence of the other branches of the Legislature, it would prevent the • issue of the writ to the extent of its power. There • were constitutional grounds fur objecting to al . lowing any portion of the body of the people to be unrepresented. In cases of extreme ne cessity and of extreme delinquency, this defect had, however, been permitted to exist; but it was a most difficult, delicate, and dangerous power, because it was liable to abuse, for the House of Commons to exercise the power (he would not call it privilege nor right, because, constitutionally speaking, it had no such right), of doing that which could alone be properly done by the three branches of the Legislature. If East Retford were guilty, the course was plain and straight-forward. It would only be disfranchised by a Bill, originating in this House, and adopted by the King and Peers. East Retford was not disfranchised—no Bill for the pur pose was ever before the House, and as long as the writ remained unissued, the House was not full, and the representation of the people incomplete. The same reason which had recently influenced the House in issuing the writ directly for the county of Clare, ought to induce it not to withhold the writ from East Retford. He agreed with what had fallen from the Hon. Baronet, the Member for Hertford, that on the score of corruption it was, perhaps, a less evil to return the writ to East Ret ford, than to give it to the hundred of Bassetlaw.— The inquiry had been pursued for three successive Session:, arid had faded, and yet what was the House called upon to do ? It was required to punish. East Retford, because it had not been found guilty : at no time could that punishment exceed six years; but in this instance it might not amount to more than 48 hours, for the House would adjourn in two day:, and the Par liament might possibly be di - solved immediately after wards : in that case the writ would be directed to East Retford as a matter of course. No man re spected the Hon. Member for Blechingly more than • he (Mr. Brougham) did; but he must say, that the amendment he had moved was of a paltry nature, yet full of solemnity and mock dignity. It declared, come what may, that no new writ should be issued to East Retford, for the whole of the rest, residue and re mainder of the present Session, which rest, residue and remainder amounted only to forty-eight hours. He thought it would have been much better to have met the motion by a simple and direct negative. The Hon. and Learned Gent. concluded by declaring that he would vote for issuing the writ. Mr. Secretary PEEL thought that there would be greater inconvenience in now issuing the writ than in withholding it. When the House had almost unanimously declared that the borough of East Ret ford was corrupt, and that it deserved punishment of some kind or another, it appeared to him very im proper to issue a writ, empowering these corrupt voters to return two Members to Parliament. He should vote, therefore, for the amendment of the Hon. Member. It would have been better, indeed, if the amendment had not been put into its present form by the Hon. Member, and if he had met the question by a direct negative. He was desirous to meet it so, and if the Hon. Member would withdraw his amend ment, and meet the motion by a direct negative, it should have his support. He begged leave to take that opportunity of replying to some charges which had been made against the Government, of wishing to postpone every question till the next Session., If ever there was a Parliam en t w hi c h cou ld b e com plained of for not doing business, this was not that Parliament. He recollected that at the early period of the Session the complaint made against the Go vernment was not procrastination. They were then accused of hastening their decisions beyond what was proper, and of having made up their mind on the queetions that were submitted to them too hastily. He did riot think that the charge of wishing to escape responsibility was at all deserved; but it was not extraordinary that the Members of Government, whose time had been occupied, should desire, when questions were submitted to Parliament involving most important principles, which the individuals who brought them forward had mas tered by their undivided attention—it was not ex traordinary that Ministers should desire to have the Recess in order to make themselves masters of these important subjects. He did not know how it was possible that the House could be more occupied than it had been since the Catholic Question was disposed of. He believed that not mere time had been given to the consideration of the questions which had been submitted to Parliament than was required. His Right Hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade had not been charged with procrastination in bringing forward the Silk Duties Bill. The questions that had been submitted to the House were of vast importance, and the questions which Members proposed to bring forward were also of importance; and there was no justice in charging the Government either with throwing off its responsibility, or with wishing to postpone till another Session the important business of the country. Mr. TENNYSON had no objection to withdraw his Amendment, and support the negative of the Right Hon. Gentleman. Mr. G. LAMB declared that he meant to vote for issuing the writ. Sir E. CARRINGTON supported the motion for issuing the writ. Mr. FANE briefly replied. The House then divided, whon there appeared, For the motion ... 44 Against it Majority against Mr. Fane's motion -91 SILK TRADE. Mr. lIUME moved for leave to bring in a Bill to extend the powers given to Magistrates by the 4th of George IV. to the Silk Trade, and all other trades. By the Act, provision was made for the protection of the goods belonging to the master, and intrusted to the hands of the workman. But tho Courts had held that this Act did not extend to the Silk Trade, because it was not specially mentioned in it.—Leave was given, [Some merriment was excited by Mr. Hume's naming the Attorney-General as one of the parties to present it.] SLAVERY. Mr. 0. CAVE rose to postpone, till tomorrow, his notice of motion regarding the Freedom of the Children of Slaves, bort; after 1830, in any of the colonies of this country. Mr. BERNAL said, that to-morrow would bean inconvenient day, and advised the Hon. Gentleman, to name Thursday, or any other day. Mr. 0. CAVE regretted he could 4;41 comply with his Hon. Friend's stiggesti,oA, ARMS' (11r4' , T,AtiD) BILL. On the Teport of Arms' (Ireland) Bill, Mr. .I'IIING RICE objected to the Bill, because it indicted a stigma on a whole people. This was im. proper in the present state of the law z and he there fore moved a clause to restrict the oPeration of the Bill to such district% as the Lord. Lietttenant should select, Lord L. GOWER opposed the clause. Mr. SAUNDERSON and Mr. R. GORDON supported the Amendment. The clause was negatived without a division, and the Report brought up. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Half-past 9,3 t.; o'clock this morning. LIS] ON MR. POULETI' TIIO3I r OF THE - 341Niott NOTZQN TUAT .• r AE FiRDIJCED....juyv Kennedy. F. Lab`.:,lienere, H. - I..amb, Hon. G. Lester, B. L. I Macintosh, Sir J. Moberly, .1, Monek, J. B. Alorpetb, Viscount Ord, W. Phillimore, Dr. Philips, Sir G. Philips, G. Palmerston, Vise. Pendarvis, E. ST, DUTY ON HEMP Bains, W. B. gar-ing, F. Brougham, Henry Carter, J. Cave, R. 0. Chohnelev, Sir M. J. Davies, Cool. Denison, J. E. Ducane, Peter Fa 7 ake{l;..y, N. FOiieseue, Hon. G. Gaseoyne, Gen. Graham, Sir J. Gordon, R. Howard, Henry Ponsonby, Hon. W. Robinson, George Rumbold, C. E. Russell, Lord John Stwart, J. Sykes, IV T Litton, Hon. H. Waithman, Aid. Warburton, H. Williams, Sir 11 . Wood, John TELLERS. !Hume, Joseph lhomson, C. P. LAW INTELLIGENCE. HOUSE OF LORDS. (CONCLUDED FROM OUR PAPER OF YESTRADAT.) LEIGH PEERAGE. • Sir JAMES SCAELETT now addressed their Lordships o•. behalf of Mr. Chandos Leigh, who felt little interest in the title, but considerable interest as respected the estates, of which he was in possession. The case, he believeci, he should be able to show, bad its foundation, with respect to the claimant in delusion. The Learned Gentleman next proceeded to comment on the evidence which had been offered in support of the claim, and contended that, even from that evidence, no pretence had been made out that the claimant was entitled to the dignity which be endeavoured to obtain. The case, he said, had been got up with great ingenuity and care, and the solicitor who was engaged in it, he understood, was to have a per centage ou the property, if the claim succeeded, of 300/. With respect to the monument which was said to have existed in Stoneleigh Church, and to which many wit nesses had spoken, different accounts had been given, not only as to the inscription, but even as related to colour and shape. In Dugdale's History of Warwickshire, of which two editions had been published, the latter having been published in the year 1730, not one word was said about the Leigh monument, although the other monuments in the chancel had been noticed. Webster's monu ment was only put up in the year 1768, 83 that it could not, as a matter of course, he noticed in the publication. A person might have a faint. recollection of the shape of a window curtain, or a monument, after a lapse of 20 years, and yet be able to give some general description of it, but some of the wit nesses spoke of the exact shape of the Leigh monument, and others said the inscription was partly in Latin and partly in English. This was not a very common circum stance. Some of the witnesses said that it commenced with the m ords, " To the memory of Sir Christopher Leigh." Tile witness who was examined that day assured their Lordships that it began in Latin—Hand peach! oh hoc loco requiescat in pace. That witness, alter a lung and painful cross-examination, was discovered to be an attorney. He did not venture to swear too much. Pro bably he had learnt by experience that it was a dangerous thing to do so. How he came to leave practising . , that profession and keeping a farm, which he said was profit able, did not exact! ) , appear. He would have it believed that be had been induced to enter business at liirminghan► by two young men. He could not swear that he bud not read the Latin inscription in the newspapers. Their Lordships would recollect that an ingenious clergyman, named Ward, had written an inscription, supposing that if a monument had existed such would probably be the inscription. This had been sworn by a respectable witness. He (the Learned Counsel) believed that much of what hail been stated by the witnesses respecting the monument owed its origin to the idle gossip of the neighbourhood after the reward had been offered - . It was not uncommon to hear stories related so often that people really believed in their truth. One woman had expressed an opinion that she had always believed the monument related to a Christ mas charity of the family. He thought that when the Church was rebuilt, it was very probable that some tablet containing an account of donations might be removed front the south wall. Ile remembered two cases of pedigree (in the course of his professional avocations) having been attempted to be made out by monuments, and they both failed. The last occurred about 23 years ago, when a man named Angel, endeavoured to make out the claim. The monument was produced before the Judges of the Assize at Croydon, with a full inscription upon it. Some gentleman, whose eye was more curious than others in these matters, detected, as be thought, something mo dern in this monument, which was said to hare been buried in the earth for ages. Artists were c a ll e d, who examined it, and it was satisfaetnrity proved that the letters cut on the monument were of very modern date indeed. Mrs. Leigh had been charged with assisting in the removal of the monument, by holding a lighted candle to the workmen so engaged. She was ready to be examined at their Lordships' bar, and she would prove that she was not even at the Abbey that spring which the witness had stated. With respect to the alterations in the cellar, they were done at the sug gestion of a gentleman who was then in the house. She never gave any directions. about them whatever. The whole story was a perfect fabrication. He had opened the case generally, and he believed he should be able to show that there was no pretence whatever for the claim. The Roger Leigh front whom the claimant derived his claim must have not only married, according to their account s at the age of 12 or 13, but have been at that period toe father of children. This was not a very likely citentn stance. The Learned Gentleman, after adverting to the nature of the documentary evidence which he should pro.. duce, concluded his address. Mrs. Leigh, examined by Mr. DE A IV-4 am the mother of Mr. Chandos Leigh. I visited the Abbey in the time of Mr. Thomas Leigh. In September, 1806, I went to the church with him. There was no monument to the memory of Christopher Leigh. I never was there in the spring of the year before 1813. Immediately on his death I went there. There had been no alteration in the wine-cellar. I was not present at any time when a stone was carried into the cellar. I never saw a monu ment conveyed to the cellar. Upon toy oath I never wit nessed such a circumstance. I conversed with Mr. Leiglk about the Webster family. I was only talieu once to Ow church. I entered by the old porch. There was a stone to the memory of a porter. I remember his pointing out two lines, which I thought improper to be on a monument. By the SOLICITOR-GENERAL-When I went into the church I turned to the right, and saw the monument uf Webster, who was High Sheriff. That was the only mo nument that I saw. There were several momments in the chancel—family monuments. Cross-examined y by Mr. ADAM—The principal object that Mr. Thomas Leigh had was to show me tiro church. I had Dugdale's History of Warwickshire the night before, which I consulted. Mr. Leigh did not call my attention to Webster's monument. There were insciiptiona of charity on the walls. I rememher the bridge being built there in Mr. Thomas Leigh's time. The foundation store was laid :on the present Uing's birth-day, and I gave the workmen five guineas to drink hie health. The inscrip tions, I believe, were upon the north wall. Re-examined—Although I went to see the D.:,„h ess of pecting Web wh e a c s o n n o v t e a rs: 7 r rp- s Ous to make myself t ot neighbourhood. Mr. Mercer, a clerk the Prerogative Court of as D tee ti qr d u, sa l e if y na ' tm s e ru di y o w n it u toho sn kt e h n pe t i , afac a me n , d i i n Canterbury, produce;; the will, dated the 6th January, 1671 (the w : 2,1 of the first Lord Leigh.) (An examined copy Was then put in.) He likewise prodaced letters of administration of Christopher Leigh, dated the 14th April, 1673 !, also the will (a copy of which was likewise Put ito of Constance, the widow of Christopher Leigh, dated 24th May, 1692: also a surrogates' warrant for letters of administration to the goods of Thomas, the son of Christopher Leigh, granted to Thomas Taylor the 29th December, 1698 ; likewise the will of Thomas Lord Leigh, dated the 26th October, 1710; and a codicil, dated sth February following also the will of EdArird, the thi r d Lard Leigh, d a t e d 26th July, 1737: likewise the will of Sir Robert Cotton, dated the 30th October, 1710: also the will of Charles Leigh, dated ,he sth ofJune, 1704. Sir George Naylor, from the. Heralds' Office, pro uced the book of the visitatioA of the county of Warwi c k, in which the pedigree ef the Leigh family was inserted. The signature of the second Baron Leigh. was attached to the pedigive. The Visitation was ins:: t e in the year 1688. Ivir, Mortimer, who was the adik to the late Mr. Hill, of the second Bar on , and itad no d ou bt th a t t h e s i gnature ,curoents in the hand. wr i t i ng sitid that be had seen m an y d e was his. lhe LORD C.:a.tweELLOIC decided that this could not be receiied ac evidence. On tile suggestion of Lord REDESDALE and the Earl of - .ipiunz, it having been proved that it was the duty a the signature p w e a r s s o t n h e tt g ' h e n o u i t n o e ok: ig t a l e a tureof inquisition th ep t a o r t s y ee w that h o i t the document was rece i ve d. the me it bore, Sir George Naylor likewise produced the visitation of Salop and Cheshire, in which the pedigree of Sir Robert Cotton, of Combermere was inserted, dated 1663. A bill, filed in Chancery in 1 - 434., for the purpose of perpetuating evidence, was lunze produced, in a c;immission of lunacy which was issw.:ll, against Edward Lord Leigh. After some furthig remarks from Sir J'ABIES SCARLETT and Mr. An,w., the further considera!:ion of the case was postpot* to, 'buvsday se'nnight. - • _l4.7ice LEOPOLD, entertained the Duchess of 'CENT and a select: party at dinner on Sunday, at Marlbo rough House. Among the company present were, Prince and Princess ESTERHAZY, the Bavarian Minister, tl Marquis and Marchioness of LANSDOWNE, Marquis o f CLEVELAND, Count and Countess MUNSTER, Earl and Countess JERSEY, Earl and Countess TANKERYILLE, Earl and Countess MoELEY, Earl DUDLEY, Viscount and Viscountess ANSON, Dowager Viscountess ANSON, Sir JonN and Lady SHELLEY, and Mr. and Mra. BARING.. His Royal Highness gave his second grand entertainment last evening. HARBOUR DuEs.--Yesterday our harbour dues were let for the year at 19,190/., being a rise of 6SOI. upon the rent of last year.—The tolls on the bridges were let at an advance of 400/...... Glasgow Courier.