The Sun. — London, England, 1860-02-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. MUSE OF LORDS—(YEsTERDKY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. The Duke of MARLBOROUGH presented a number of petitions against the abolition of church rates. Lard CHELMSFORD presente d similar petitions. THE PRAYER BOOK. The Earl of CARNARVON presented a petition from . Ileniton against any alteration in the prayer book. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a second time :—Dublin and Meath Railway; Galashiels and Peebles Railway; Banbridge Junction Railway ; Belfast, HolW arrenpointywood, and Bangor Railway ; Dover Gas ; Newryand and Rostrevor Railway; North Kent Water; Portadown, Dungannon, and Omagh Junction Railway ; North Bri tish insur an ce Company , and London Sheriffs Court. ENDOWED SCHOOLS. Is reply_ to Lord CHELMSFORD, Lord CRA.NWORTH said he intended to proceed With th e bill for regulating e ndowed schools, which involved but one principle, in a public and not a select committee. NICE AND SAVOY. Lord NORMANBYsaid, as it was stat e enc d e relating to t that it would he be inconvenient to produce the correspond proposed annexation of Nice and Sayoy to France, he should to-morrow move for the dates of any correspondence b e t wee n the Secretary of State and the at Paris INDICTABLE OFFENCES BILL. Lord CHELMSFORD, in moving the second reading o, this bill, said its principle had three times been sanctioned by votes of the other house. There had never been any hostility to the bill ; and although it had never passed into a law, it was owing altogether to circumstances unconnected with the merits of the measure. By the first clause that !was enacted that from the passing of the bill no criminal charge should be tried at the Central Criminal Court or any other Court within . the district, un less a previousinvestigation had taken place before a ma gistrate. The noble and learned lord then detailed a n umber of cases to show the inconvenience of the pre sells nt grand jury.system, in the majority of instances the bi ignored being quite in opposition to the opinion of the com mitting magistrate and against the whole of the evidence set down in the depositio ns. He concluded by exprestring a hope that their lordships would allow the bill to be read a 'second time, and go into committee. The LORD CHANCELLOR said he should not oppose the mill, bat it was a measure which would require great caution in reference to its details. , The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be e9mMitted. THE RED RIVER SETTLEMENT. The Earl of CARNARVON inquired what was the in tention of her Majesty's Government with regard to the administration of the Red River Settlement, and those parts of the Saskatchewan districts recommended by the com mittee of the House of Commons, in 1857, to be withdrawn from the jurisdiction of the Hudson's Bay Company. The Duke of NEWCASTLE said, he hoped the result of the amicable arrangement which he was desirous of conclud ing with the Hudson's B a y Company, would accomplish this very desirable object without litigation. If so, the next step would be to devise some sim p le form of govern ment ; and should legislation be necessary for this purpose,s jt was, of course, most desir able that it should take place thi 'session. 7HE DISSENSIONS IN ST. GEORGE'S -IN-THE EAST. Lord EMMY, in pursuance of a notice which he had given last week, placed before their lordships a petition, signed by.between 4,000 and 5,000 e of the parishioners of St. George's in the East, complaining of certain ecclesiastical grievances. .Their lordships then adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPBAJCER took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a second time :—Aberga venny Improvement; Ambergate, N o tti n gham, and Bos ton, and Eastern Junction Railway and Canal Company Birkenhead Railway (No. 1) ; Bourton on the Water Rail way; Chesterfield and Worksop Rotors; Cilgwrgan, Bettws, and Tregynen Road ; Egle Roads ; Glossop and; larple Bridge Road ; Highbridge Market and Gas ; Hungerford Market and Charing-cross Bridge Companies ; Lincoln Heath and Peterborough Roads ; Llanelly Rail • way and Dock Company ; London and South-Western and Bristol and Exeter Railway Companßail w ies ; Lond E o xtensi a on,n nd South Western Rail wa y (Kingston ay &c.) ; London, Brighton, and South Coast, and Victoria Station and Pimlico Railway Companies Lon don, Chatham, and Dover Railway (dapital) Manchester Corporation Water ; Manchester Im provement ; Marchburn, Kelso, and Lauder Road ; Ilarple New Mills and Hayfield Junction Railway ; Mid land Railway (Burton -upon-Trent Deviation) ; Midland Railway (Hinckley Extension) ; Newcastle-upen-Tyne and Carlisle Railway, and Port Carlisle Dock and Railway, and Carlisle and Silloth Bay Railway and Dock Companies; Newcastle-upon-Tyne and Derwent Valley Railway ; North British Railway (Stations, &c,) ; North-Eastern Railway (Blaydon and Conside Branches) ; North- Eastern Railway (Extension of Time, &c.) ; North Staffordshire Railway ; Sacriston Junction and South Shields Railway; Salisbury and Yeovil Railway; Sheffield Water ; Shrewsbury and Welchpeol Rail way; Sirhowy Tramroad"; Stockport and Woodley Junc tion" Railway ; Stourbrid ge. Railway • Swansea Local Board of Health ; Thetford and Bury St'. Edmund's Rail way ; and Vale of Clwyd Railway Extension. PETITIONS. Several petitions were presented against the abolition of the church rates, and the alteration proposed in the London Corporsilou Bill, in favour of the repeal of the paper duties, for the repeal of the grant to the College of Maynooth, for some leeslative enactment to facilitate the economy of a rate legally made, against the continuance of the income tax, &c. NEW MEMBERS. On the motion of Mr. BRA.ND, writs were ordered for the borough of Ennis, vacant by the elevation to the Irish b.nch of Mr. J. D. Fit z g erald, late Attorney-General for Ireland ; and for the county of Cork, vacant by the accept ance of the office of Attorney-General for Ireland by Mr. Sergeant Deasey, late Solicitor-General for Ireland. , ITALY. Lord J. RUSSELL laid on the table of tcor respondence he house the which had taken place relative to the affairs Italy. MR. JUSTICE PERRI.N. Mr. R. LONG asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if it were true that Mr. Justice Perrin had resigned his seat upon the Irish bench ; and, if so, for what reason ? Mr. CARDWELL said that Mr. Justice Perrin had re tired from the bench after having served in the office of judge for the protracted period of 35 years; and the reason of his retirement was ill health LIEUTENANTS IN THE ROYAL NAVY. Lord J. BROWNE asked the Secretary to the Admiralty whether any reply had been given to the memorial of the Lieutenants of the Royal Navy presented in December last ; whether it was the intention of the Board of Admiralty to increase the pay and half-pay a those officers, so as to place them more nearly on a position of equality with the Mas ters and the non-effective officers of the Royal Navy of the same rank ; and whether it was intended to allow their ser .vice in the Coast Guard to count as sea time ? Lord C. PAGET said that the Board of ' Admiralty had taken into consideration the memorial alluded to, and after mature deliberation it was not their intention to increase the to pay of lieutenants in the Royal Navy. With re gard to the half pay, when he brought forward the navy estimates he would afford the noble lord the information he required. • NEWFOUNDLAND FISHERIES. Sir J. PABINGTON asked the Secretary of State fo Foreign Affairs whether the English and French Commis r sioners sent to Newfoundland last year to investigate the questions so long at issue between the two Governments with respect to the fisheries have made recommendations which are likely to be accepted by both countries, and to lead to a final and satisfactory arrangemment ? Lord J. RUSSELL said that the commissio ners had made their report, but Government was not in possession of such l information in reference to the subject as to enable them to come to a final decision. He could not state whether .the French Government would accede to the recommenda tions of the commissioners. FRENCH CUSTOMS TARIFF. Sir S. NORTHCOTE moved an address for a copy of the French tariff of customs duties now in force. After a few observations on the same subject by Lord J. MANNERS and Mr. NEWDEGATE, Mr. M. GIBSON said that the information required would be supplied by the documents that would be laid on the table of the house. Those documents would show clearly the amount of the existing duties on Bri tish productions imported into France, and supply all the necessary details to which the hon. members referred. With regard to the differential duties specified in the third article of the convention, these were to be consi dered as a part of t he navi g ation la;Ls in operation between France and England. He would most willingly afford all the information on the subj6ct that was required by the noble lord, but he thought it would be more desirable if the noble lord would put his motion in a more specific form. THE ARMY ESTIMATES. In reply to Mr. DISRAELI, Lord PALMERSTON said he could not tell when the army estimates would be CHINA. id on the table. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Mr. COCHRANE rose, pursuant to notice, to call the attention of the house to.our relations with China. It was desirable that the house should express an opinion as to the instructions :to be given to the officers now in command there. He would not refer to the p ast war, which, in his opinion, was the primary cause of the present difficulties, nor to Lord Elgin's blue-book, except where it was essen tial to do so to explain the present position of affairs. He would regard the question from the treaty of Tien-tsin. Early in 18.57 Lord Elgin was appointed special envoy to China, but owing to the disturbances in India, he did not arrive there till the close of 1857. The original demands in December, 1857, were only two—first, the complete execu tion of treaty engagements ; secondly, compensation to British subjects for losses incurred in 1857. But most un fortunately in Feb., 1858, Lord Elgin took a step further, and demanded the power of making additional demands'on the Chinesegovernment, and of entering into such treaties, conventions, and agreements as might obviate future mis understandings ; and still more unfortunately, one of the demands then made on the Chinese Government was the .right to ha v e a British Minister resident at the Cour t of rekin. That demand was the cause of all our present diffi culties. Every one would give full credit to the ability, energy, been and fa with rank nr s of Lord Elgin. This energy had an extremity of vigour against the Chinese Governme n t, demanding from them all the gun - . rantees of a civilisa tion neit treating th em an at one moment, and at the thehis most abject barbarians. His was shown by franknessown opinion expressed as to the demand for a residentMiui teriit Pekin. In his despatch to Lord Malmesbury of October 12th, he stated that these demands in the eyes of the. Chineseiov!rnment amounted to a revolution, and that compliance with them had been fears: Agftin,onth c e o s n t t h e of November, extorted from its he wrote :—" The Chinese authorities contemplate the per manent residence of a Foreign Minister at trle ) apitai with more aversion and alarm than any other of the innovations introduced by the treaty of Tien-tsin." He admitted that their appre hensions as to its effect on the Peo p le were not altogether chimerical. The noble lord had laid over and over that-this demand was one which was most unpalatable to the Chinese Government, and that it hl4l been extorted from them through fear. The Chinese m;.sioners had represented to him that the'permanent ,ifforeign ministers at Pekin would bets eriously iesii by generating disrespect for heir own inju eons to Ph?, a, govt . iniment ,ne eyes of the people. In spite of that the . --ted upon. "Oat happ ened ? The treaty condition wal 413—‘, TIIE SITN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING; IFEBRITARY 14, 1860. M0........................11M. was signed on the 26th of June, 1858. Lord Elgin then to Japan; he returned to Shanghai; and, about the went end of January or the beginning of February, he sent a le to the commissiciners, who resided at Shanghai, re qtter uesting them not to leave until his return from Canton, where he intended going on amount of some disturbance. lie went there, but most unfortunately did not return to Sh a nghai ; he returned to Eng land. He was replaced by Mr. Brace on the 4th of May, 1858. Lord Malmesbury's instructions to Mr. Bruce were, that on his arrival Sing a h e should proceed, without a m oment's delay, to i, on his way to the mouth of the Peiho, to complete the rati fication of the treaty on the 26th of June. Lord Malmes • bury said :—" The Admiral has been directed to send up to 'the mouth of the Peiho a sufficient naval force ; and it would seem desirable that you should reach Tien-tein in a British ship of war." The object, no doubt, was that the vessel of war should serve as an escort, and as a matter of dignity to the mission. There was no construction to be put upon Lord Ma lmesbur y 's words w hich would have justified Mr. Bruce in proceeding d up the Peiho been with perfectly a fleet. B u t on his arrival he appeare to have panic-struck. He saw Russians everywhere ;he eagerly i eceived all the information which reached him 'against the Government of China. One authority which he quoted was that of a Cantonese moneylender, to the effect that the Russians wanted to sell 10,000 muskets to the Chinese, but the Chinese would not have them, fearing that they should have 10,000 Russians as well. (Great laughter.) His first complaint was that the commis sioners remained at Shanghai — t he very thing which they were ordered to do by Lord Elgin. (Hear, .) Here followed three despat ches from the commissioners to Mr. Bruce. They wrote to hint, stating that they had the greatest confidence in luord Elgin, and that ink nsequence of having promised him to remain at Shangthey were unable to proceed to Pekin in order to bring the matter to a conclusion. Mr. Bruce then promised to give them steamers to go to the mouth of the Peiho, but they replied that they had no authority to go by sea. 'Mr. Bruce would not grant them any delay, and complained of their having remained so long. Mr. Bruce himself, however, remained at Hong Kong a month, when h e should have gone to Shanghai i n conformity with his instructions. He might therefore have acted a little more tenderly in such a matter to the commissioners. He now came to the most interesting, and, he might say extraordinary part of these proceedings. On the 16th of June Admiral Hope arrived at the mouth of the Peiho. On the 20th Mr. Bruce arrived. -Between the 16th and 20th Admiral Hope discovered that the forts were fortified, and that barriers had been placed across the river, and that in fact it was not intended to allow them to pro ceed by the Peiho to Tien - twin. And with some justice, because it was admitted in Lord Elgi n ' s own despatch that we had no right is navigate the Peiho till after the ratifica tion of the treaty. When Mr. Bruce arrived, however, he took the most unwarrantable step of ordering the admiral to clear the river for him. He ordered him to do this on June. 21. But the admiral most wisely delayed in giving effect to that order, and, had it not been for the attacks which had been made upon a gallant officer, now a member of that house (Sir M. Seymour)—(hear, hear) —he believed that Admiral Hope would have had the good sense not to carry out the instructions at all. On the 21st the attack was to have commenced, but an interval having been per mitted to elapse, on the 25th, at nine o'clock in the morning, Mr. Bruce received a despa tch irons one of the highest - offi cials in China, stating that he had arrived at the Peiho, ten miles to the north, for the purpose of treating, and stating that ho was instructed to conduct him with all poss ible dignity to the Court of Pekin. Mr. Bruce received this communication at nine o'clock in the morning, but would the house believe that he declined to send nine miles, making it an excuse that it was too dis tant, because Admiral Hope must have commenced opera tions. The operations, however, had not commenced till 2 o'clock, and no effort had been made by Mr. Bruce to pre vent the slaughter of our troops. Out of 1,100 men who went into action, 434 were killed or wounded. Nothing could exceed the gallantry of the officers and men engaged. They had heard on the first night of the session of the gal lantry of Admiral Hope—how he shifted his flag from ship to ship after being wounded ; and they could not refuse to sympathise with the officers under his command—Vansit tart, Chadwell, Lemon, Heath, Fisher, and others. The action continued until nightfall, while Mr. Bruce, who was only nine miles distant, and was aware that the Chinese government had fulfilled its obligations made no effort to stop the carnage. (Hear.) He was disposed to sympathise deeply with any minister placed at so great a distance from his country, but he was compelled to say, that on this occa sion their ininistsr had misused his authority. And how that did Mr. Bruce afterwards defe nd his conduct? by saying that the Chinese abused their autho r i t y , the treachery being the batteries of the Chinese were masked, and that there were gunboats on the river. Why Lord Elgin himself, be fore he left China, knew that the batteries were masked ; he intimated that they were fortifyingthe mouths of the Peiho, and they were justified in doing so. He might also• refer to the letter of Captain Longley, who said that it was on our part the declaration of war was made ; that there was no treachery on the part of the Chinese at all ; .that we knew there were gunboats on the river ; that one of them actually fired to warn us to withdraw our force ; and stated his opinion, that if the Chinese had opened all their batteries at that time not one of our boats would have been left. (Hear, hear.) - There was another matter in which Mr. Bruce's conduct deserved to be canvassed. Mr. Bruce stated that Mr. Ward, the American minister, who wisely did not co-operate with him at all, was received with insult and contumely when he went to Pekin. Would it be believed that all this was totally imaginary ? Mr. Ward himself states that he had been received by the Chinese officials with the greatest respect and considera tion, that everything had been done to facilitate his jour ney to Pekin, a that junks had been sent to con ve y him up the river ? and that the Chinese had shown courtesy President which left nothing to be desired. Mr. Buchanan, the of the United States, bore similar testimony in his recent mes sage, and declared that the conduct of Mr. Mud on the oc casion had received his entire approbation. Taking all the circumstances of the case into consideration, he thought that Mr. Bruce had acted in a peremptory and precipitate man ner, and not in the spirit of a minister who went out to ratify a treaty of peace. (Hear, hear.) . He declared war on his own authority, and did not' bear in mind the advice of the Duke:of Wellington, that " it was not by force or vio lence that her Majesty's Government intended that com mercial intercourse should be established between this coun try and China, but by conciliatory measures." He should also refer to the opinions of Mr. Consul Alcock and Mr. Robertson on this point, who stated that the Chinese offi cials had shown a disposition to act in a friendly spirit. Lord Elgin, and Mr. Oliphant in his recent work, expressed opinions to the same effect. Mr. Bruce again insisted on the fact that Russian influence had been mixed up in the affair, and that Russian guns and troops were made available by the Chinese. So far was that from being the case, he believed that the most excellent adv ice had been given by the Rus sian ambassador to Lord Elgin, who stated that what China wanted in her present position was repose, and that any harsh measures would only lead to increased difficulties and to bloodshed. He considered that was statesmanlike ad vice. He believed that a palace had been prepared in Pekin for the reception of our ambassador. If Russia, however, had greater influence _than we had, it was because Rus sian diplomany was conducted in a different spirit from ours. (Hear, hear.) He should now proceed to make a few remarks on the despatches of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell). He believed his first despatch, of September 26, expressed only a very qualified approval of Itlr. Bruce's proceedings : and in his last despatch the noble lord , distinctly stated how he thought the necessity for taking these violent measures might have been prevented. The noble lord said, that although the denial of the passage to the capital for our ambassador might be considered evi dence of an unfriendly disposition on the part of the Chinese, yet it was a matter in which Mr. Bruce might have remon strated without having recourse to force to clear the passage. (Hear, hear.) In the noble lord's despatch of October, which did him the highest honour, he expressed a strong hope that peaceful relations might be restored to China with out the effusion of more blood. That was in accordance with the passage relating to China in her Majesty's most gracious speech from the throne. He hoped when the noble lord ex pressed himself so admirably he really meant what he said, and that he did not mean it in the spirit of the 91d Inquisi tors, who, when th3y ordered a criminal for execution, directed that he should be treated tenderly. The hon. gen tleman then quoted a passage from a speech which the noble lord made in 1857, and in which he declared that the pres tige of England ought n ot to be maintained at the expense of her reputation and honour. He asked the noble lord now that he was in pow er to carry out the sentiments which he had expressed when in opposition. After the reverses we had experienced in China, it was indispensable that some demonstration should be made to retrieve our position there. He would have that demonstration great not only in its magnitude, but also by its moderation. He did not wish by any resolution of his to tie the hands of the executive ; he admitted they had done all they could do under the circum stances. He did not think it desirable to insist upon our having a resident Minister in China when the people and Government of that country so strongly objected to it ; but he asked the noble lord to state fully and clearly what were the limits to the instructions given to the authorities in the expedition, and whether those instructions had been carried out. (Hear.) Sir M. SEYMOUR (who was very indistinctly heard in the gallery) remarked that this qu estion was a very large one, and in tho course of his duties in China the events referred to would be found to have occupied a long period of time, and covering many extraordinary scenes. Soon - after ho took the command in China, he visited the north, and after ascertaining that the Russian war was at an end, he facilitated the return to their own country of some 100 or 2 eidr ann O e adl O danuyodefeott ßussian het make eyr prisoners. lacekoaherrseueHlsceehve He returned to Hong Kong at the was etnoa adiaw n h strangeraeay. det a che d udemonstrationeas the thoe t h o ug h ts e c o nd China. nAwcf would After com mand (Sir M. Seymour) en deavoured to t h release tin c o n s t e h g e u p e r i n e s prisoners t s h o e f p t r h o e v i l s o i o r n o h s (to the r Arrow, w t r , e b a t u y t he found Canton was in a similar position to four or five other cities of mercantile resort, and the right of entry into the city was denied. There was consequently no possible means of communicating with the Chinese officials. If that right bad then existed half-an-hour's, or perhaps ten minutes' con versation would probably have put an end to the matter. (Hear, hear.) He remembered reading with some surprise what had been said in the house on the subject. It had been stated that the question of the legal rightto that search had been doubted. Now the orders under which he acted had been sent to this country, and received the royal assent. They were intended to meet the requirements, not of the Chi n ese alone, but of oth ers. The. Arrow lorc ha was one of a vast number of other British vessels containing a large amount of British property. It had also been said in that house that that vessel had no protection. But that was not the fact. She had a right to carry the British flag, and that ordinance gave a right to the British consul to over haul her papers and to renew that protection for another year. If she had protection, then, she was regular, and if she had not protection she became the property of the British Crown.' It happened, however, tha t her papers had examined and found to be correct. After taking the advice of those who were experienced in Chinese matters, he thought it necessary to seize a Chinese vessel, which was a most dioses tasteful duty to him. Ho felt he was entering upon th operations with a nation which was not a warlike nation. (Hear.) Ile then proceeded up to Canton and found there a multitude of people of very menacing appearance ; but he said to himself, " How is a man of humanity and honour to deal with these people ?" (Hear.) He was deter mined to proceed with as little cruelty or slaughter of the Chinese as lie possibly could. He directed such an attack as he thought best. lie told the Commissioner of Canton he could go over the walls of the city, and accordingly with about three hundred men he did pass over the walls and passed ou. There were not persons wanting who said that he ought to have fired the city and burnt it down ; but he said that was not the part of a Christian British officer. (Bear, hear.) The forcing of the Canton River was a matter of considerable difficult ; the extreme ingenuity of the Chinese and theeat number of war junks, constantly endangered th e saf et y of his ships. Happily the course he pursued he ha d never any reason to regret. On the bank s of the river where his ships were, many of the natives be • ..-----„---e--- -- .7_ came friends with the English, and frequently conveyed re. freshments to their ships. (Hear, hear.) Several operations were carried on, but owing to the smallness of his force he was obliged to restrain for many weary weeks and menthe' the ardour of his gallant officers and men, who were anxious to go into action. He did restrain that ardour, however, and waited till the right moment came and proper instruc tions arrived. Then came the question whether they should continue or go to the north. Before :that, the unfortunate mutiny in India broke out, and it became his duty to con siderf or forward maj reinfor cem e nts esty , s authority there. l .l;le accordingly sent the Shannon and the Non p areil for that purpose, and to enable Sir H. Ward to forward all the troops he could spare fro m Ce y lon. During the absence of the English ambassador in India the o p erations in China rem ained almost quiescent. Du rin g that absence of the am b ass ador he found if ne cessary to establish a blockade at Canton, for this simp le reason, that he found Commis sioner Yeh and the .Chinese authorities were in treaty to open the trade of that place with all other foreign nations, to the exclusion of the En g lish. He felt he could not allow that, and he declared he should hold the blockade until her Majesty's Government should decide that in countrywhat way in a y e r h d e e r could t o susta in send to upon the steps to be taken. In the early part of 1858 he was called upon to accompany the English ambassador to the north, together with the imperial force and ambassador. The blockade of Canton was raised on the 10th of Feb ruary, and arrangements were then made for proceeding northwards after the final capture of Canton. When that period arrived he hoped that no hostilities would be neces sary. It was supposed that what had occurred at Canton might have induced the Emperor of China to see the advi sability of yielding. Moreover, several representatives of foreign powers were united with the English representa tives on the common ground of the treaties. The English forces finally arrived off the Peiho river on the 24th April ; on the 25th the French arrived. On the 30th they agreed to postpone hostilities, and a congress was held on the let May. The final decision was made 'on the 19th of May, and on the 20th, having on the previous evening embarked landing parties, they proceeded to the entrance of the Feiho River, after summoning by previous arrangement, and two hours having been given, so that they might float off with the ebb tide. The result of the operation against the forts was, as was well known, successful, and the loss on our side only 1.03, of whom 50 lost their lives by the unfortu nate explosion of 4 Chinese magazine. After the capture of the forts there was not the slight es t molestation offered, and Tien-tsin reached on the 30th.. On the 23d, whilst on the way un, 800 or 1,000 Chinamen were aeon in the dis tance, and there could be no doubt but that if delay had been allowed they would have availed themselves of it to enlarge their forces and strengthen their batteries. He would here gladly sit down, but the house would act, he hoped, think him out of order if he made some reference to a question of the performance of his duty as regarded the noble lord, her Majesty's ambassador in China. He bogged 'to assure the house that from the moment of his having the honour of entering with the noble lord on the performance of a duty connected with China, he had never deviated from what he considered that duty to be—to forward his wishes, to uphold the public interests, and to obey the orders of the Queen and Government. (Hoar, bear.) He would not have made this reference, and hoped the house would not say he was out of order (for he had refrained from no ticing, on various occasions, remarks in certain public jour nals), if his conduct as a naval officer was not in some mea sure assailed. He believed he took the right course as a naval officer and commander-in-chief in a distant part of the world—that course being strictly to adhere to his duty —strictly to adhere to the instructions of the Admiralty which he served. He had exercised forbearance in not ask ing for official documents relating to certain operations in which he took part, only because he did not think anofficer should be too sensitive, even if the publio thought fit to deal with his character. Were he to justify himself, his course, as it seemed to him, was this, to ask the Admiralty whether, in consequence of his character having been assailed, they would permit him to use certain documents in order to make his conduct plain before the world. If they objected to that course he must bow to their decision. In his case he the ad received the fullest approbation of the Government and Admiralty, and therefore had not thought it necessary; but when he told the house that an hon. gentleman—an able and very agreeable writer, who held a position of confidence —who held an official position by the side of the noble lord, the ambassador in China—when he gave to the world his work, in which he reflected upon his character—when that writer said that he (Sir M. Seymour) was slow, and wanted energy, and thwarted the policy of the noble lord, he thought he might fairly ask why did not this gentleman not give the whole story to the world? He could have done it, but he did not ; but he wished to poison the public ind agains one who endear oured to do hi s duty. The house must un t derstand that the instructions were very clear. Lord Elgin was told by these instructions that it would be for him to determine, and for him alone, how long the negotiations should be continued, when, if unsuccessful, to be broken off ; and when. he judged that further negotiations were use less, and the employment of force necessary to compel the Chinese to comply with his demands, his duty then would be to announce to Sir M. Seymour the facts, so that he (Sir M. Seymour) might apply to the Admiralty as to the use of the forces under his command. He never was called upon to act until the time he was called upon to attack the force. Had he been called upon to act he would have respectlully told her Majesty's ambassador that he thought it would be better to delay, as in his opinion it was important, in acting against the Chinese it is always important, to act with effect. He had experienced the advantageous moral effect of such. a course in dealing with this people. He knew the dif ficulty of getting the Chinese to show a front of resistance. He was, in point of fact, about to retire, when, by a device, he had induced the Chinese to offer resistance. He had been a long time intheriver;and the Chinese really believed they were afraid to attack them. The truth was they had no boats fit for the purpose, but when the attack was made the Chinese never troubled them again. (Hear.) In the case of affairs in the north he had given natice for the produc tion of papers, and he believed Government had no objection to their production. The hon. gentleman who had made the attack upon him seemed to forget that he (Sir M. Seymour) had not acted alone—he acted with Admiral R. Genouilly, a man of honour, open, candid, and of the highest profes sional attainments, -so much so that it was impossible for him to express the satisfaction he always felt in carrying out joint operations with that gallant officer. Therefore, when -they smglod him out he did not understand it. (Hear.) Those gentlemen were very fast men for fighting. Fight whom ? Blame him for not fighting. Whom ? Chinamen ? He did not mesa to say that Chinamen could not be got to resist. They did so get together at the Peiho forts, and became almostiznpudent, and the result was therefore use ful, as they were prepared to meet them. If they had gone in a hurry up the river, no doub t the forts would have been taken ; but what then ? they should have commenced at the opening of the river, and been slaughtering Chinamen all the way to Tien-tsin. As soon as they advanced to attack, the Chinese ran away like sheep. His vessel was a long steamer, and she could not make her turnings, and sometimes was obliged to put her stem into the opposite mud, and back her short, and then go on again. Well, they had not sufficient men to wear her off. But who helped her off? Why, hundreds of these Chinamen — (laughter)—and they were swimming about his vessel with vegetables, and fruit, and live birds, and there wao:nothing they could not get from them. (Hear.) Yet, some of those gentlemen who fought with the floarish of their pens in agreeable books talked this nonsense about China. (Hear, and laughter.) He had the greatest deference for public opinion ; but there were times, as he said before, when officers must bear unjust odium. If this country had any interest in China, it was a commercial interest. (Bear.) If they attempted to enter it with any other motive they would act unjustly and unfairly towards the Chinese. This coun try was powerful in war, and China was very weak. It was impossible they could carry their arms into China without very serious consequences to that empire. (Hear.) He be lieved China had never recovered the effects of the first war, and he further believed—whatever might be the conse quences of the expedition now on its way—that, if it were carried beyond the necessities of the case, there would be reason to deplore the result. There was no hesitation on his part in saying that with that large allied force which was now proceeding to China, if it were needful to use hos - tile measures, success was inevitable. No Chinese and no Tartar force could resist the operations of two great power ful nations ; but it would be a happy circumstance if the Emperor of China would yield to advice, and stay anything like hostility. He feared th it would not be so. (Hear.) .He had read with regret in one of the leading journals that the last accounts from the north of China spoke of large Tartar forces. The Chinese did not like to be advised — their best friends were not able to persuade them. He thought success was quite certain in the event of their not yielding—those forts would be retaken, and then the 'gallant men whom we sent out would defeat any advance which the Chinese could make. He hoped the Court of Pekin would see the necessity of yielding, but in any case he should deprecate the consequences of success if they were not in conformity with justice- and moderation. (Hear, hear.) It was not a country to make war with. There was nothing to oppose them. (A laugh.) They could not carry the war into China with any real satisfaction to them selves. (Hear, hear.) The desolation and ruin of the em pire would be the certain consequence. The consequences of proceeding by force to Pekin would be to make Pekin very like what Canton then was. All the high officials might leave Pekin, and diplomatists would find themselves , without any one to negotiate with. Defeat would induce ' them to lay down their arms. But what could a force do without opposition ? He supposed come away again. Still he did not see how it was possible for them to stop short of insisting upon the fulfilment of the'treaty. Having obtained success, he repeated his conviction that forbearance ought to be shown to a people so utterly undefinable. The fabric of Chinese power was of so flimsy a* character—it was so made up of forces and ceremonies, that the rude shock of war would break up the whole empire to its basis. If that was to be the result, what would be the considerations and reflections of those who hod brought about such a state of things ? (Hear.) The gallant officer concluded by thank ing the house for the attention with which they had listened to him. (Cheers.) Lord J. RUSSELL said—l suppose there is no one in this house who can question the professional opinion of the gallant admiral who has just sat down, or who will be dis posed to doubt his zeal and devotion in the service of the Crown and the country. (Hear.) The gallant admiral has received the approbation of the Board of Admiralty, his im mediate superiors, and therefore I think it is quite unneces sary—indeed impossible—for me to go into the questions he has adverted to with regard to his conduct and the differ ences with the noble lord who was her Majesty's Ambassa dor in China. I doubt whether this is an occasion when we can conveniently and usefully discuss the whole ques tion with regard to China; but, at the same time, the hon. gentleman (Mr. B. Cochrane) who brought forward this subject. made so many charges against Mr. Bruce, and in so much detail, that I cannot altogether avoid question ing some parts of the narrative in which he introduced them. teErn The ent aivrtEnvoy yl house oyLf :. for :i s: et. anh i l o.e l rt drsiei purposennc a o , l ra l yn e . c d t ooß t ff h ea a ofzob t trti 3 ean l i gn r b . i nea B t gw r e u t nhc Pekinbto hrw/ae waslaid sfi h e s e e a n rtai t op t na o sp eoif.ChinabeMaj e sty's t he. fore Lord Malmesbury, asking for instructions, and point ing out that, as there were parts of the treaty known to be very unpalatable to the Chinese, some difficulties might arise, not then perceived, in carrying the treaty into effect. I must say that Mr. Bruce did not suggest that the entrance to the Peiho would be resisted ; but he asked the, question whether he should insist on going to Pekin. Lord Malmes bury then directed him to go to Pekin, and gave him the following instructions is to the mode of proceeding there : " You will probably find it advisable, before your depar— ture from Shanghai, to send an intimation to Pekin of your approach, and to request that suitable arrangements may be made for your honourable recepticakat, ,the mouth of the Peiho and at Tient-sin, and, for your lourney from that place to Pekin. The adm iral in Commana alter Majesty's naval forces in China has been directed to mud up with you to the mouth of the Peiho a sufficient naval force, and unless any unforeseen circumstances should appear to , make another arrangement more advisable, it,wo,ubt ,seem desirable that you should reach Tien-tsin in a British ship of war." The case which actually occurred was not foreseen. Mr. Bruce stras directed . to proceed to the mouth of the Peiho with a suitable naval force. Admiral Hope Ells Mr. Bruce saic with an "imposing" naval force. But I take it for grant() a that such a naval force was intended as would inspire so much respect or awe to tie Chinese that there would then be * no difficulty .in proceeding up the Peiho and arriving at Pekin. Many petitions have been addressed to me on the assumption that Mr. Brice, immediately on his arrival, at tempted to reach Pekin ly force; that he intended to force his way. Mr. Bruce, I submit, acted exactly according to his instructions. He wrote immediately on his arrival at Shanghai, on the 10th of May, to ask that suitable prepara tions should be made for his reception. He said he should proceod to Timartsin, araf On he e..rriYucl there he hoped suitable preparations would be made according to his cha racter as plenipotentiary for his co ver:mos to k i ekin: lie i s tates it n these words ,-- " The undersigned takes this opportunity of informing his Excellency l(weliang that, in compliance with the above instructions of his sovereign, he is about to proceed without delay, by ship, to Tien-tsin. Ho trusts the neces sary orders will be gives for the conveyance of himself and suite from thence to Pekin, and for the provision of suitable accommodation for hill:laming his residence in the capital itself, in a manner befitting the dignity of the nation he re presents." It is obvious that there is no contemplation of force in that request, but that it is a simple request that the Ministers of the Emperor of China will make due preparation far his journey and reception. The hon. gentleman says that there were persons waiting atShanghai to negotiate with him, and that they were told by Lord Elgin to stay there for that purpose. But it is rather remarkable that the hon. gentle man, who professes a wish to show every indulgence to Mr. Bruce, did not in this respect de him fair justice, because the fact is that in the beginning of March Lord Elgin wrote to the Ministers of the Emperor of China thathe should not return to Shanghai, that ho was about to proceed to Eng land, and that another person would go from England with the view of exchanging ratifications at Pekin, and residing there as her Majesty's representative. (Hear, hear.) These Chi n ese Ministers, after the receipt of that letter, remained from the 30th of March until the middle of June, but no one can say that they yore justified in expecting either Lord Elgin er Mr. Bruce to negotiate at Shanghai, when another and more natural course had been decided upon. Mr. Bruce accordingly, in further compliance with his instructions, called on Admiral Hope to furnish him with an adequate force. According to directions received from Lord Elgin, twat force was furnished, and he proceeded to the mouth of the Peiho. Up to this time he had had no intimation whatever from the Chinese that his entrance to the Peiho and proceeding to Tien-tsin would be opposed, or even objected to. These Chinese Ministers proposed to re-negotiate or re-open cer tain points, and to alter some parts of the treaty. Mr. Bruce very properly declared that that was no part of his duty ; that it was his duty to exchange ratifications, and not re open matters in the treaty, and that he intended to proceed 'to the Peiho. If any one will look at the correspondence with these ministers, he will find that, although they at tempted to re-open questions, yet after a time they appa rently coincided with Mr. Bruce. At all events, they de clared themselves ready to do what he desired. They made some objections to the length of the journey and the time it would take, but they never, nor do I believe it was in their minds or knowledge to do so—they never suggested to Mr. Bruce that the Emperor of China objected to that mode, or that any resistance would be made to his proceeding to Pekin. Indeed, I cannot conceive what objections there could be, supposing the Emperor of China intended to ad mit him to Pekin and ratify the treaty. If that were the Emperor's intention, there could be no objection to Mr. Bruce proceeding by the.usual and shortest route, and having those advantages in his short journey of 40 miles from Tien tsin to the capital which would enable him to reach it in a manner becoming the representative of a friendly Power. But another party seems to have had a predominant influ ence with the Emperor of China. They do not manage matters in that country as they do here. In England when one party is in power the other is out. (Laughter.) The one pin sues a policy, the other criticises it. But in China there are two parties in power at the same time, one being for peace and the other for war, and therefore the treat ment shown to the mission was of a character totally dif ferent from that which was expected. Mr. Bruce desired that the Admiral should proceed to the mouth of the Peiho, and when there endeavour to ascertain what arrangements had been made for his reception. He always proposed that he should be allowed to go up with one or two ships, just sufficient for himself and retinue. It was not proposed to take up the whole squadron. The Admiral could not find out what orders had been given. It did not appear whether there was to be resistance or not. A number of country people appeared, whom Mr. Bruce calls a rabble, and they said there was no person of authority among them, that they were mere country people, that they had put stakes in the river to defend themselves against pirates (which is not a very unlikely event), and that they knew nothing of what the Government would do. So matters remained until the last moment. It was net that Mr. Bruce insisted on refusing the proposition of the Emperor of China that he ehonid go by another route, but that up to nine o'clock on the day the attack was made he was induced to think that the Government of China was not disposed to resist. (Hear, hear.) And let me say that my belief is, that if Admiral Hope had been as successful as the gallant Admi ral (Seymour) was the year before in passing the forts and destroying them, we should have heard that Mr. Bruce had arrived at Pekin ; that if his boat had got into the mud there would have been hundreds of Chinese to assist him ; and that the Emperor of China would have said the re sistance was made against his orders, and that he was quite ready to disavow any such resistance, and to receive Mr. Bruce as became the representativr of a friendly Power. But events, I must own, turned out otherwise.` do not attempt to say precisely what course was that which might hive saved Mr. Bruce from difficulty. It appears to me that the evils which he had to consider were very great on every side. (Hear, hear.) He was placed without in structions in a position he did not expect. He had with him a large force. He had with him, mind you, a large British force, with a British, Admiral in command. He desired the Admiral to clear the river. When the morning came on which that was to be done, he received intimation that if he would go to another place, ten miles off, he would be received by a high officer, and means provided by which he might reach Pekin. Let any one who really feels that indulgence which the hen. gentleman professed consider the difficult position in which Mr. Bruce was placed. He was ordered by the Government of his country to go to Pekin to obtain the ratification of the treaty, and not to ratify the treaty anywhere else. He was told at the mouth of the river that militia and rabble had put in stakes, in order to defend themselves against Rirates. There were some persons at Shanghai who told him that the Emperor of China meant to resist the advance of the British Minister. Other persons told him that preparations were made•for his reception, and everything would pass in tranquillity. He had to decide this difficult question, whether he should attempt to pass by force, or without orders desire the Bri tish Admiral to retire from forts which were taken with ease by a British 'force the year before, and thus give the appearance to the whole of China—l may say to the whole of England and• the whole of Europe—of shrinking before forts which were overcome a short time before. (Hear.) Let us suppose he had taken the lattercourse. Let us con sider what opinion would then have been passed upon him Let us suppose that at 9 o'clock in the morning he had said, " I will not attempt to pass these forts, but submit to any proposal which the Chinese. Government may make." For my own part, I am inclined to think that after the success ful resistance made to the British and French advance, the Chinese were more disposed to be civil and apparently con ciliatory to the Americans than they would have been under other circumstances. It was their obvious policy. Let us suppose that Mr. Bruce had met with the same treatment as the American Minister, and that he had been conveyed to the capital in what is said to be not the most honourable mode of conveyance. I will suppose him to have arrived at the capital, and to have been told, as Mr.. Ward was, that if he expected an audience he must perform the kotoo—strike his head to the ground and offer himself as the representative of a tributary nation. I will suppose him to have displayed the same spirit as Mr. Ward—and I am sure he would have displayed it—that he had replied that he would perform no ceremony which was not performed at the courts of the Western Powers, or which would be consi dered as degrading, or as placing his Sovereign in an inferior position to the Emperor of China. The Chinese would have said to him, as they said to Mr. Ward, " What was the use of your coming here, then ? You can't ratify your treaty ; wo will conduct you to the coast, and there it will be rati fied." Suppose Mr. Bruce had done all this, what would have been said of his conduct here ? Would not peogdelave said to him, "You had instructions to go to Pekin to get your treaty ratified ; you have not obeyed them ; you have suffered humiliation, and you have not carried out your object, your only excuse being that you had reason to appre hend some resistance, though you were aware, and, indeed, had seen it with your own eyes, that a similar resistance had been previously overcome with the greatest ease ? Don't you know the character always given of the Chinese, that they are an nnwarlike nation? Don't you know that the resistance from which you ran away might have been over come in half an hour ?" Can anybody doubt that this would have been the judgment passed on Mr. Bruce here? On the other hand, there was the danger that, the Chinese*, having got ready their forts, blocked up the river, and alto gether made more extensive preparations than Mr. Bruce was aware of, her Majesty's troops might have suffered severe loss. These were the alternatives presented to Mr. --Bruce, and never was a civil officer placed in a situation of more difficulty. Without attempting to decide—and I will not attempt to decide myself whether his course was the best—l say there were infinite difficulties on both sides, and the Government were justified—and not only justified, but they would have been neglecting their duty in doing other wise—in telling Mr. Bruce that their confidence in him was not diminished by the course he had taken. (Hear, hear.) I have said thus much because it was necessary, after the numerous complaints which have been made against Mr. Bruce, and after what has been said to night by the hon. member, to place before' the house the difficulties in which he was placed. (Hear, hear.) When this news reached her Majesty's Government, we came to the immediate and unanimous conclusion that, whatever might be the terms proposed to the Chinese Government, or the course hereafter pursued towards them, it was neces sary to support them by such a force as should make it manifest that our moderation was the result of willingness, not of weakness. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the terms we have offered, the gallant admiral said, most truly, that we could not have asked for less than the treaty of Tien tsin, which had been signed and had received the special approval of the Emperor of China. It would have been impossible for us, because her Majesty's forces had suffered a loss, because 400 or 500 mon had been killed or wounded, to give up a treaty solemnly agreed to, or to retreat from conditions to which the Emperor of China had given his consent. (Hear.) It was also necessary to ask for an apology for what has occurred, to which I think we are entitled; for, whatever may be the case of the Emperor of China, with regard to his right of forbidding a passage up his rivers, he was clearly not justified in barring the passage without giving notice, or in entrapping the British Minis ter into an ambuscade. For such a proceeding the dignity of the Crown and the nation requires an apology. I quite agree with the gallant admiral that we should treat the Chinese with every justice. It is not because England and France are far stronger in war than China that therefore we ought to give them an inch less than the justice to which they are entitled. (Hear, hear.) I agree with him, ton, that in pressing too severely upon the Emperor of China we may entirely dislocate the whole fabric of the empire and the state of society, and that that which is our only business there, commerce, might be seriously injured by standing out for complete, instead of resting satisfied with insufficient, terms of peace. But, at the same time, everybody I have seen acquainted with China is of opinion that unless we place ourselves iu a posi tion to show that we are able to enforce all our de mands, the lives not only of British subjects, but of all Europeans in China, would be endangered. At first it was necessary to make preparations by which to show our strength, and this we did in communication with the Em peror of the French. There was a chance that the Empe ror of China might offer terms himself ; that Mr. Bruce's readiness to receive those terms might be known. That hope has to some extent been disappointed, It may be that it would be wiser to send out a person of more authority than Mr. Bruce, who has not been engaged in this conflict, who might obtain from the Emperor the concession of terms of peace which he would not otherwise assent to. That is a matter to which the attention of the Goyermnent has Well seriously directed, and I shall take an early opportunity;sts soon as the next mail comes in, to state to the house the course which tho Government intend to pursue. (Hear, hear.) In the meantime, not fearing the decision of this house, not unwilling to give it every informs ~ion I vesture to say that I don't think that they are i 'l. a position, without all the circumstances of the case Before them, to come to a decision. I think it would t e well for the house to wait before it pronounces an— absolutely decisive opinion either on the conduct of - I:ir. Bruce or the course which the Go vernment 1) ", ;pose to pursue. I agree with the gallant ad miral tl- P _ . .at our business in China is commerce. A Minister mg there would not are the same duties to perform as a Minister residing at any European Court. His chief busi ness would be to protect his own countrymen residing in the country, and to obtain reparation for them if any of them chanced to sustain injury; and it is a serious ques tion to consider whether this could be done by a Minister residing at Pekin or at one of the outports, and going to Pekin occasionally. There are matters which require grave consideration. lam not saying now that we ought to ask for more than we have already obtained, the option which is given by the treaty of Tien-tsin. (Hear.) Every honour has been rendered, and justly rendered, to the brave men who fought so gallantly yet unsuccessfully. (Hear, hear.) But the character of the naval service has not yet suffered by that misfortune. (Cheers.) I need only add that I shall feel happy indeed if the measures which have been adopted should lead by successful negotiation to the establishment of permanent relations of peace with that country. (Hear.) Sir J. PAKINGTON.---I very much agree with what fell from the noble lord at the commencement of his speech, that for several reasons the present is not a desirable moment for entering into a general discussion of the ques tion of our relations with China. (Hear, hear.) That opinion acquires even greater force from what was stated at the conclusion of the noble lord's speech, and by the arrange ments which the Government have made for bringing forward business of great importance. The questions aris ing out of the late unfortunate collision with China, in volving not only transactions which have occurred, but matter affecting our future relations with that groat empire, must necessarily be of importance, and in many respects also of extreme difficulty. Tho hon. member for Honiton, avail ing himself of the right which he undoubtedly possessed, has placed before the house the opinions which he enter tains on some parts of the subject. He has stated them with great clearness and ability; and I am bound to say, as far as we are now in possession of information, that there wore many parts of his observations in which I am much dis posed to concur. The noble lord, in answering my hon. friend, passed in review several of the transactions which have taken place, but he has not gone into the whole of them ; and if I now abstain from entering more fully into the subject, I wish it to be understood that I am not as senting to all that fell from the noble lord. (Hear, hear.) The conduct of Mr. Bruce in particular is a point on which I should be sorry to express any opinion. I am simply anxious not to appear as altogether concurrin g ix the inti mation that has fallen from the noble lord. My belief is, that the conduct of Mr. Bruce must bo divided into two periods—namely, that which elapsed prior to his leaving Shanghai, and the subsequent period after his arrival at the mouth of the Peiho. And I would remind the noble lord that in his observations he has altogether omitted, or, at least, ho has touched very lightly on the despatch which bears more than any read by him upon the question at issue —I mean that sent by Mr. Bruce to Shanghai en the 12th or 13th of June. On this matter I wish to be understood as altogether reserving my opinion. But I have felt a very great desire to hear what are the intentions of the Govern ment on so important and delicate a matter. I hope I may infer from the little the noble lord has said to-day, that the course which they will pursue will be one of moderation. (Hear, hear.) Further than that I will not inquire, espe cially after the declaration, which I heard with great satisfaction, and as to which I hope no misunderstanding exists—that as soon as the next despatch is received, which the Government expect will be on a very early day, we may anticipate a full explanation from the noble lord of the policy which they are prepared to adopt with regard to China. [Lord John Russell signified his assent.] With that understanding, I think the offer made by that noble lord affords an additional reason for abstaining at this mo ment from any further discussion ; particularly as we are all anxious to hear the statement of my noble friend opposite. But although I thus wish to exercise some reserve in enter ing into the general question of our policy in China, there is one part of the subject on which I wish to maintain no reserve at all, that is, as to the appeal which I understood was in some sense made to me by the right hon. and gal lant admiral the member for Davenport with regard to the opinion expressed by the late Board of Admiralty regarding his conduct while in command of the Chinese station. I confess I entertain some regret that the hon. and gallant officer felt obliged as I presume he did in justice to himself —to allude to the unfortunate difference which occurred between him and the noble lord our ambassador in China. I am inclined to believe that the fact of that difference was very little known in this country—(hear)--and I am still more strongly disposed to believe that no one was inclined to attach blame to the gallant admiral. (Hear, hear,) lam sorry that the matter has been brought before the House of Commons, but as he has felt it due to himself to advert to the subject, I think I am bound in justice to confirm what has fallen from him, and to say that the Board of Admiralty unanimously approved of his conduct. After the case was brought under their notice ' they sent out to the gallant ad miral for an explanation of the facts, and a full and clear ex planation was returned by the gallant officer. After it had been carefully considered it was my pleasing duty to assure him, on the part of the Board of Admiralty, that we ap proved of the course which he had adopted ; and I think I am bound further to express the opinion of the Board that there had been nothing in the conduct of the gallant ad miral which was not perfectly consistent with the high cha racter which he has at all times borne. (Hear.) Sir DE L. EVANS said, as he had placed a notice of mo tion on this subject upon the paper, he might be permitted to say a few words, which the hon. member who had intro duced the discussion had spared him the necessity of pro longing to any great extent. The policy to be pur sued towards China by her Majesty's Government he hoped would be matur.ly considered ;. but with re gard to this question the noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs appeared in a new character. Tho house would remember the eloquence and grace with which he hid delivered his opinions on the same subject on a former occasion ; but he could not as truthfully congratulate the noble lord on the extenuatory speech of that evening, and he did not think he had satisfactorily replied to the arguments of the hon. member for Honiton. The noble lord had stated that every indulgence was to be extended to Mr. Bruce ; but the important question still remained, whether in making war on another country, ho was justified by his instructions, or whether his acts had been subsequently approved of by the Government. (Hear, hear.) In a speech made by the Earl of Derby on the 24th of January, he said—(Order) The SPEAKER—The gallant general must not road • speech which was made in the House of Lords. Sir DE L. EVANS said he would simply refer to the speech as being made "in another place." The noble earl was reported to have said, — The SPEAKER—The gallant general is equally out of order in repeating what took place during the present ses sion of Parliament in the House of Lords. Sir DE L. EVANS said he would not allude to the House of Lords. He would merely state that a noble lord who had been Prime Minister at no very distant period, had declared that Mr. Bruce was not sanctioned by any instructions from his Government in the course which he had pursued. There were some other passages of importance in the speech of the noble earl, but, under penalty of the displeasure of the Speaker, he would not refer to them ; the despatch of the noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, how ever, might be legitimately remarked on. That noble lord who now extended an absolute approbation to the conduct of Mr. Bruce, stated in the last document which he had submitted to the house, " Now, although the denial of a passage to the capital by the usual and most convenient route would have been evi dence of an unfriendly disposition, yet it was a matter upon which you might have remonstrated and negotiated, without having recourse to force to clear the passage." Now they were told by the noble lord that ' t would have been unbecoming to the English ch arac t er aid reputation if he had remonstrated or proceeded according to any other course than that which he had adopted. [Lord J. Russell— No.] Surely, there was some inconsistency in such a de claration. He understood the noble lord to deny that such was his meaning. If, however, the effect of the discussion which had taken place were to induce her Majesty's Govern ment to nominate some high personage to conduct the ne gotiations in China, who did not labour ender the disad vantage of having been mixed up in the previous contro versy, ho believed that a beneficial result would have been at tained. Under these circumstances, it would ill become him to press the motion of which he ha dl given notice. But the noble lord, in alluding to this matter, had not attached suffi cient importance to the war they were then engaged in. It was a war which would employ an army of 30,000 men. The noble lord had stated, satisfactorily as far as it went, but rather vaguely, that the demands her Majesty's Govern ment would make on China were very moderate. The de mands might be of that character, but if they were to be backed by 30,000 men, the results of such demands might be by no moans moderate. (Hear, hear.) It was a subject for the most serious consideration by the house. He would postpone his motion till the period alluded to by the noble lord. Lord PALMERSTON—I hope the house will agree to postpone the discussion of this question till my noble friend shall be enabled by the arrival of further accounts from China to explain to the house fully what course her Ma jesty's Government intends to pursue. We have another important subject immediately coming on, and I should hope the house will forbear the discussion of this question at pre sent, in order to go at once into the navy estimates. (Hoar, hear.) I will only observe that the hon. and gallant general appears to have misunderstood something that fell from my noble !friend, and consequently sets some inconsistency in it. But there really is none ; the gallant general supposes my noble friend to have told Mr. Bruce that if he had been informed beforehand that ho could not be allowed to go up the Peiho, he might have remonstrated, and some arrange ment might have been made as to the manner in which he should have proceededto Pekin. Now what my noble friend said was, that ne such intimation having been given by the Chinese authorities, and theexpodition having been already detained for some time at the mouth of the Peiho without receiving any intelligence as to its route, it was not advis able under such circumstances, to retire without attempting to ascend the river. It must also be recollected that Mr. Bruce's decision wasprobably influenced by his instructions from Lord Malinesbuxy, who told him he was to ho accom panied by a sufficient force. Mr. Bruce might not very un naturally, think that this force was to he " sulncient" for some purpose or other. As the immediate purpose was to go up in a ship-of-war to Tien-tsin, he might also be al lowed to consider that the sufficiency of the accompanying force was to be measured by its power of overcoming any obstacle in the way. But I will not set the example o f continuing the discussion I am now asking the house to postpone. (Hear, hear.) I wish now to state that the hon. and learned member for Bridgwater (Mr. Kinglake) has a motion standing on the notice paper for to-morrow evening. In the present state of things, it will be very inconvenient to press on a discussion upon that motion; awl I would ask the hon. and learned member to postpone it till a time when the house will be better able to consider it. Sir C. NA IE It thought a great deal had been said in justification of Mr. Bruce, but a very little of Admiral Hope. He was sure the house would like to hear more of the cou rage he had shown in the action in the Peiho than th e y would see in the despatches. Ho then road a letter from an officer who was near the admiral awing the action. It said : " I am going to try and give you an account of our mee t disastrous affair, as my time will allow, an d I k now you will make allowance for me. I suppose the Admiral's de spatch will be published, but I doubt if you will get all there; at any rate, you cannot hoar from that source how nobly he behaved. We went into action at 2 30, the Ad miral standing on the top of the cook house, myself and kaaetiS casks in front of the French captain on the him. By 3 o'ol3ol he was badly wounded by a round shot taking away the fleshy part of the thigh, the lieutenant command ing and 8 men killed, and 22 badly wounded. She then dropped down for more men, and the Admiral left her to hoist his flag in the Opossum. All this time his wound had been unattended to, except what my little surgical know ledge pointed out. When we left the Plover there were nine aus with a whole:skin left out of her crew ; she was literally like a butcher's slaughterhouse. We had not been long in the Opossum before the Admiral was again wounded. We had managed to got him on the top of the cook-house again, and, being weak from his wound, he was supporting himself by the mainstay, when a round shot took that away, and threw him down on the deck, in- jilting him on the Iced and fracturing his ribs—still he would not give in, and was placed on the gunwale, till, at last, being quite done up, he fainted. I then got him into a boat (French), and was taking him away, but he came to and asked me which was the ship furthest in. I said' Cormorant.' Then take me there.' So we went to the Cormorant, where, finding him perfectly unable to stand, I had the signal made for Capt. Shadwell, the senior cap • taint, who came on board and took charge." In all naval history there was no instance of an officer showing greater gallantry. (Hear, hear.) He would not go into the question whether Admiral Hope was right or wrong in the attack he made. But he thought her Majesty's Government would only show a good feeling if it sent him out•the Victoria Cross. It was not a decoration intended only for successful actions ; it was the reward of great valour, and no officer had ever displayed more than Admiral H ope.i He trusted the Go vernment would see the necessity and propriety of giving him the Cross. THE ANNEXATION OF SAVOY AND NICE. Mr. KINGLAKE said he had, on the previous day, re ceived a note front the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, containing an intimation similar to that just ex pressed by the noble lord (Palmerston). The application was based on the fact that bringing on the motion to morrow would be injurious to the public service and affect the negotiations still going on on the subject (the annexation of Savoy and Nice to France). On receiving the note, he felt it his duty •to ask the noble lord to make the application publicly in the House ; and he had also communicated the facts and the course he intended to take to the right hon. member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli). He could not but express his regret at the decision the Government had arrived at in determining to intercept the voice of the House of Commons on this question. (Hear, hear.) He believed that a calm and temperate expression of the opinion of the House of Commons would not have weakened the efforts of her Majesty's Government, but materially have strengthened their hands. 11e might also be permitted, in a humble way, to express his own opinion that her Majesty's Ministers, in the course of that discussion, would possibly have obtained a knowledge of dry facts which, as far as he could judge, they did not then possess. He ventured to say this because, if he rightly understood some statements made by Earl Granville in another place, her Majesty's Government appeared to have acted under a . singular mistake, a mistake far the existence of which ho could easily account, but which might be fraught with the most momentous consequences. Since this appeal, however, had been made to him by the noble Secre tary for Foreign Affitirs, he, as a loyal subject of the Queen, must assent to the delay. On the other hand, he should have the right to expect that his motion would be allowed to come on at such a time that it would not come on in vain. He was informed that the 20th of this month was the day fixed for completing the Act in question. The day on which the noble lord proposed he should bring on his motion was the 28th. (Hear, hear.) This was naturally unsatisfactory to him, as it was just eight days after the date when' it was reported the Act was to be completed. He should, however, be prepared to accept the assurance of the noble lord at the head of the Government that the 28th inst. would not be too late a day to secure the object which he had in view in entering upon the discussion of an im portant question. He need hardly add that he should ex pect, should any circumstances in the meantime occur ren daring it desirable that a day earlier than the 28th should be selected for that discussion—for he had no doubt the house were of opinion it ought to take place before the event against which it was meant to provide had come to pass— (hear, hear)—the noble lord would feel it to be his duty to make such communication either to him or to the house as would lead to the result which both had in view. (Hear.) Sir J. ELPHINSTONE, reverting to the discussion on the subject of China, cautioned the Government against the dangers which would beset the expedition which was being fitted out against that country if it wore to arrive in the waters of Pekin so late as November, when the monsoon changed from the north, and when the Gulf of Pecheli was so acted upon by the winds that it was impossible for vessels to approach the land. The expedition, under these circum stances, would be liable to have its supplies cut off, and, having to deal with a hostile and ingenious enemy, a second Cabul disaster might be the result. Sir R. PEEL, taking up the subject of the cession of Savoy to France, said that his hon. friend (Mr. Kinglake) was of course bound to yield, as he had done, to the wish of the noble lord at the head of the Government with respect to the postponement of his motion. It was, however, of the utmost importance that the question to which that motion related should be discussed without delay. (Hear, hear.) It was one with respect to which he, as well as his hon. friend, had received private information of the utmost im portance ; and he could not help thinking, with all due de ference to his noble friend (Lord Palmerston), that it would be for the public advantage that the House of Commons should be afforded an opportunity of giving expression to their opinions upon the subject. He must addihat thenoble lord seemed to him to be very shy and coy—(a laugh)—in furnishing the house with information on matters connectill with foreign affairs, and not to be disposed to act with that liberality on the point which was desirable. The Govern ment, of course, he was aware, occupied a position as well in the case of foreign as of domestic policy which required that no ordinary amount of conaiderationshould be extended to them ; but it must, nevertheless, be borne in mind that discussions in that house, and the determination at which it might arrive on any particular question, were calculated to produce an effect abroad, and that being so, he should ap peal to his noble friend at the head of the Government to fix a day when the motion of the hon. member for Bridgewater might be proceeded with. The question of the cession of Savoy to France was one, he might add, which affected very much the future of Switzerland, and he held in his possession letters assuring him that the treaty by which that cession was accomplished had already been signed. (Hear, hear.) He had, moreover, been asked to plead the cause of Switzer land in that house, and to state on her behalf that if Savoy were made over to France the neutrality of Switzerland would be at an end—a neutrality which was guaranteed by the treaties of 1815, which the noble lord the member fur Tiverton called the charters by which the European Powers now held the territories which they possessed. If, then, the cession in question were to take place, a most scandalous and iniquitous proceeding, and one which would affect the future position of European nations perhaps lead to Euro pean convulsion, would have been resorted to. (Hear, hear.) He should therefore again entreat his noble friend to name a day when the discussion upon the subject might be en tered upon. Admiral WALCOTT, returning to the question of China, expressed his cordial conctrrence in the suggestion of his hon. and gallant friend opposite (Sir C. Napier), that the Victoria Cross should be conferred on Admiral Hope. It had, he admitted, been almost always the practice of the Government of this country not to grant rewards for deeds of heroisrnwhich were not followed by success ; but then he should remind the house that Admiral Hope had acted in the case of the encounter at the mouth of the Peiho not upon his own responsibility, but upon the authority and at the request of Mr. Bruce, so that he did not come within the scope of the rule by which honour was refused to un successful bravery because of the stimulus which a contrary oourse was supposed to afford to the undertaking of rash and disastrous enterprises. He trusted, however, that in honouring Admiral Hope, the Government would not forget the gallantry which had been displayed by the officers and men who had served under his command. (Hear, hear.) Lord C. PAGET expressed his regret that the gallant officer who had just spoken, as well as some other distin guished members of the naval profession, should seem to think that the Government had not done justice to that most heroic officer, Admiral Hope, for his conduct at the mouth of the Peiho. Ho could, however, state with the utmost sincerity that the Admiralty highly appreciated that conduct, as well as the bravery of the gallant band who were under Admiral Hope's command, and the loss of many of whom the country had reason to deplore. (Hear, hear.) The Admiralty, he might add, had not confined their appreciation to mere words. Admiral Hope had had several promotions placed at his disposal, in consequence of the encounter of the Peiho, and three officers had already been promoted on his recommendation. He had been furthert ree informed that a gunner, boatswain, carpenter, a n d three engineers rtr contend might that be the advanced . Admiralty It wa was were hardly n o t aliv e fa ir, there fore; etrhe the heroism which had been exhibited on the part of our sailors at the Peiho, while ho must beg the house to bear in mind that it was desirable a certain amount of discrimination should always be exercised between a victorious enterprise and one which happened not to be successful, for the reason which the gallant Admiral who had just spoken had alleged. (Hear, hear.) He could only say, in conclusion, that Ad miral Hope and the officers whom he commanded had the full approval of the Government. (Hear, hear.) The subject then dropped, and the SPEAKER having put the question that the house go into Committee of SUPPLY.—EXPORT OF COAL— Mr, HORSMAN rose to put a question to the Govern ment with respect to the commercial treaty with France. The house would bear in mind that when it had been first rumoured that that treaty was about to be entered into there existed in this country a feeling rather opposed to it, but that when it had been announced by the noble lord at the head of the Government that no provision of the treaty would be carried into effect until it had been submitted to and received the sanction of Parliament, pub lic confidence had to some extent been restored. The treaty contained this stipulation, —that it should not be valid un less her Britannia Majesty was authorized by the assent of her Parliament to execute the engagements contracted by her in the several articles of the treaty. The question he had to ask was, how her Majesty's Minister intended to proceed in order to obtain the assent of Parliament to the articles of the treaty ? The house would observe that the article of the treaty with respect to coal was different from any other article. It was not brought under the considera tion of the house in committee of supply, where they voted to take off duties. By this article they had only pledged themselves not to put a duty on, and therefore in commit tee of supply this article of the treaty would not be sub mitted to them and their assent to it could not be obtained. He attached the more importance to this because the article was the most remarkable in the whole treaty. The house would remember that the article of coal was the one first to be admitted into France, vory much prior to the date at which the general admission of English articles was to be allowed. It was also to be admitted at a very much lower duty ; not only so, but at a duty of an entirely different character ; because, while all other articles were ad- raitted under a piOtective duty and a high protective duty, the article of coal was to be admitted at a low re venue duty. By this article we bound ourselves in all time coming not to make coal an article of revenue, while we allowed France to make it an article of revenue to her. This was important in a constitutional point of view. By this treaty her Majesty bound her Ministers, in the first instance, in all time coming, that they should not propose a duty on coal, and it also bound her, if any private member Passed a bill through that house imposing a duty on it, t o interpose her veto. Whatever the exigencies of the State, though every other article were taxed to the highest point, the Chancellor of the Exchequer could not under thi s treaty derive any revenue from coal ; and the stipulation applied not only to France, but to all other countries— whatever our political relations with any other States in the world, we cotilcl, Ilat put an export duty on coal to any coun try witlA which we were not at war. lie did not wish to say anything in bahalf of an export duty. Export duties were vicious in principle, and indeed indefensible. But coal was an exceptional article—an exhaustible commodity. Scientific men were alarmed at the progress of the consump tion of coal. It was well known that the late Dr. Buck- land, an intimate friend of Sir Robert Peel, had urged him very strongly to put an export duty on coal ; and though he did not connect the two as cause and effect, Sir R. Peel did in 1842 so far violate his now triumphant principles of political economy as to put on coal, and on coal alone, an export duty. (Hear, hear.) He attached the greater im portance t ) this article from the language used by the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs in his letter of in structions to the plenipotentiaries. It was the opinion of scientific men, after survey, that even at the present rate of consumption the coal of this country could not last 300 years—a short time in the life of a nation. The greatness of England depended on her coal. (Hear, hear.) They were bound to legislate for the future as well as the present. (Hoar, hear.) It was not a question whether they should now put on an export duty on coal ; they were going to the opposite extreme, and giving a bonus on its exportation. He had intende d to move for a Royal Commission to in quire into the statistics affecting coal, and how long, at the rate of the present consumption, it was likely to last ; but when the French treaty was talked of, he gave up the iiler lest he might appear to come into collision with it. Since he had seen the articles in the treaty that notion had revived, and he thought it would be a very wise act on the part of the Government to issue a commission to inquire into this subject. With respect to this particular article of the treaty, the only one that appeared to be withdrawn from the notice and sanction of Parliament, it was so important that he confessed he would rather that all the rest should be withdrawn than that this should stand. (Hear, hear.) He wished to know how the Government proposed to proceed . . in taking the assent of the house to this article P - Mr. A. SMITH thought it important to add to the state ment of the right hon. member for Streud that, while the article obliged us not to put any duty en the export of coal, there was no reciprocal obligation en France not to put ex port duties on articles sent to this country. Nay, more, on wine, brandy, and almost all other articles of French pro duce an export duty was put. If this clause of the treaty were allowed to remain as it was, it should be made to ap ply to export duties put en by France on articles of her produce. Mr. GREGSON believed that, according to the ealcula- Lions of scientific men, our coal formation would last for 1,200 years. Colonel HERBERT could not help observing that very important consequences were involved in this article of treaty. As he read it, in the event of any angry discussion with France tending to war, and making war imminent" nothing short of an absolute declaration of war on our part would enable us to prohibit the importation of coal. (Hear t hear.) There was another point—in the event of war wit h any other Power, even during the continuance of that wart nothing could enable us to prohibit the exportation of sell to France, thus making France a coal depot, with a power of selling it to the other nation with which we might be A war. (Hear, hear.) In the event of war between France and any other Power we equally engaged not to prohibit the exportation of coal. It might so occur that Fr a nce, beint engaged in war with some other nation, we might be pre' pared, not to take part in it, but to t a ke the line, perfectly right in a neutral Power, to prevent the exportation of cost to France fer the purpose of carrying on the war. Coal was not yet decided to be contraband of war; but it was in the power of our Courts so to declare it. Whether so declared or not, however, it was obviously as much an article of war like stores as gunpowder, or any o th er ma t er i a l w hi c h had always been so regarded. Such being the case, he hope! to receive from the Government some explanation on Mt° article of the tariff. Mr. AYRTON expressed a hope that the second resat( of the Corporation (City of London) Bill would be so fin e that its coming on would not be left in uncertainty from the number of notices which preceded it. Mr. RICARDO said the object of our commercial leggy' lation should be to exchange that which we could produce with the greatest facility for that which we most required. It was to be expected that many captious objections she'll& be taken to the fiscal arrangements recently announced? but the very last objection to have been anticipated or: tainly was the one now urged against tie exchange of the! commodity which of all others we could produce cheap" and with the greatest advantage to ourselves. Most writer', on political economy held that there was very little dills' rence between an export and an import duty ; and unless er°, put an export duty on coal, how were we to prevent tha t article from being exported ? This was a question not for us, but for other countries to decide. There was nothing new in the exportation of coal from England. Now, heir' ever, the French Government were willing to admit our coal duty froe—(" No.")—or at least at a reduced duty Where was the great misfortune in that ? As far as we!' like objects were concerned, there was no reason why trl French Government should not have admitted our coal an d iron at any previous time, except that it had hitherto thong , ' fit to levy an import dut y upon them for State purpolo s ' The present was not, however, a proper occasion for discus s ing the great question of the commercial treaty. oot Sir H. WILLOUGHBY agreed that the general subj could not be discussed then, but the object of the right hose member for Stroud was a simple one. He wished to (Mai e from the Government some explanation as to the mann in which a parti cu l ar ar ti c l e i n th e t rea ty was to he (Woe with by the house. (H ear .) Th a t ques ti on was one °' great importance. Lord PALMERSTON having already spoken did i n ° intend to trespass on the indul g ence o f the h o use by aehilt permission to enter into details with reference to that P ° oll tion of the treaty. Full information would be give s . ge that as well as on other points on Monday next. ( 0 ' and a laugh.) It was inconvenient to anticipate now te t. would be duly explained on the proper occasion. He m • risen solely to answer the question that had been put to relative to the bill for the reform of the Corporation 4 London. That measure was fixed for Thursday. 0 %1 matters, however, stood for Thursday ; and if that could not then come on at a proper hour for a fair died lion, it would be fixed for some other day. THE NAVY. Mr. WILLIAMS called attention to the enormous crease in the Navy Estimates for the present year. Thti, estimates, the grand total of which exceeded £12, 5 00,0n were larger in amount by more than a million than any the' had ever been presented to that House in time of pest such an augmentation in oxr armaments was naturally supposed by the country to indicate that the Governeoet,, were under an apprehension that war would occurs:lSi distant period. It was desirable that the 11 ° 11 .! f oun ds.. know from the Government whether there was a 11.7 Govern tion for that impression. If there was not, the Gov ° 7 to tee were not justified in expend sumitting'such extravagant s , s" for fia to Parliament. This piture was in , ereasing at A i e ratio, and must continue to do so unless the House teok;, matter seriously into its own hands. The greater the t he penditure tho greater the patronage at the commend ° Ministry of the day. He noticed, with regard to ° bif „ „ f t building, that the shipwrights' wages per ton were evi l ,. cent. higher at Woolwich than at Chatham, a11 4 u . 0 1 thought the difference most extraordinary. He INV' 0 1 whether it was the intention of the Government to I_, ° creating a vast accumulation of admirals. There 11 336 admirals in the present estimates, and that tee' f f, admiral for almost every ship and gun-boat in the 0 1 0 •0 With regard to Generals of Marines, there were 1 10 Al t than 38 in the present estimates, though he believed„';ol during the last war ne such officer was known. He beL' i of the appointment to be a sinecure. A vast amount of m ° l oo was spent as bounties and gratuities, and he ther°, et hoped that the noble Secretary to th e Ad m i r alty woul d 01 able to give a better account than h e h a d g i ven last y e the success of the new scheme for procuring able 0 11 1 and he likewise trusted that the noble lord at the he s t the Government would state whether it was on account,/ the apprehension of war with any great Power that to quired so much money for naval and military purposec t 0 0 Col. SYKES believed that if the expenditure Irel l oo increasing at the present rate from year to year, the 0 would shortly arrive when the country would not be ab le . , meet it. As far as appearances went there was no jug 00 tion for the enormous increase in the navy and areal ° i d mates. Was the country in a state of war or peace ? 11 ,1 0 0 only in a state of suspicion with respect to another o'o probably. In the name of common sense, then, why ° ° ,ll not an arrangement be made for a mutual disarmanT He expressed disappointment that the Secretary to the y miralty had not proved so great a friend to economy ° 1 had been led to hope. Mr. LINDSAY said that though he deeply regreth e- ie great increase in the estimates, and did not think ther°, l that necessity for it which others imagined, he acquittc" 0 noble Secretary to the Admiralty from all responsibilli account of the increase. The noble lord, simply as an 0 0 cutive officer, carried out the wishes of the house, iin', l o lo only question was, 'whether they were getting the hest for the money spent. A if Mr. BENTINCK conce i ve d t h at the term inu t ue . armament was an absurdity. There could be no 0 10 disarmament between France and this couhtry, for 1 1 1 was disarmament here was not disarmament in France' 1 1,0 certainly was not the fault of the noble Secretary t° oo' Admiralty that he had not been able in office to carrLei those economical views which he advocated in Oppos i j ee, for during the time the noble lord had been in office, 31 , ° ,,, JP, could have worked harder to give effect to the pliagoo' had previously made. He maintained, moreover, thio',l navy, far from excessive, was hardly adequate to th'oo quirements of the country, considering the event; I ° l (H elm Captain occur even within the next few months. eV Captain JERVIS attributed the large demands ,1 0 were now made upon the country for purposes of defeh h "o the House of Commons having been so long "le d ose nose" by the late Mr. Hume. In addition to the £7O, 0 of which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had spoken Friday night, no less a sum than £10,000,000 would ; 1 quired-for national defences. If the House of Cornwell ( t done its duty from 1825 downwards we should not 1 10 1 ,04 called upon to pay for what ought to have been done ago. (Hear, hear.) THE NAVY ESTIMATES. The house having resolved itself into Committee of ply, Mr. Massey in the chair, Lord C. PAGET rose and said,—Sir, the observati °l lo the hon. member for Lambeth, and those of the hon' gallant member for Aberdeen, were not required to con't me of the great responsibility which rests upon my sho in proposing estimates for the navy larger than those 1 7,01 were voted last year by upwards of a million. The in' er oi in the estimates is a fact which I readily admit, and tli v , fore in asking, on the part of the Government, the co t° 0 1 tee to vote so vast a sum of money, it behoves me to ° l l i the necessity for keeping up large armaments, and cot lti ing, certainly during the element year, our great ow l! construction of ships. (Hear, bear.) I believe it 1 1 , conceded by all that, apart from the navies of other O P it is absolutely necessary that England, with her nut ° d ° colonies and her enormous commerce, should maintain ro d the seas a considerable number of vessels. (Hear, 13 p oe Even supposing, therefore, that every other En r° j•j ° Power were suddenly to disarm, and to lay up its v° 3ll- i 0 1 its ports, we ehould still be obliged, for tho police ,°• 0 0! seas, to maintain a large force a fl oat. Such, then, ' O OO consideration to which importance ought to bo 0 ( 1102 when we discuss the navy estimates year by year. e It is not my intention upon the present occasion to r° 0 0k the past. I shall confine my observations to the e a el; and as far as possible to professional subjests, avoid'" matters of high national policy. (Hear, hear ) ( Ple above the question of the maintenance of squadron s protection of our colonies and the police of the e° „ell / of " 0 1 must, of course, c ons id er w h a t is the condition os 01 • countries with respect to their navies. For, be i t i bored, our navy is a new creation. It is the produc t c of ,11. , lat sdecade. All nations have recently started fair' • • 0. 0 years ago we had a vast number of line-of-battle e e o ll 'ose s ! le frigates, and by turning out a certain number of 0 . il e l to d o every year, and patching up old ones, we manag VA Lain our superiority at sea. But a change took P . l lO Or o suddenly wo found ourselves upon an equality wit h lelg A of the world. It behoves us, then, immediately W° t _ J oe to regain that superiority, of which the introductio n o f