The Sun. — London, England, 1860-06-01 00:00:00

- ........_ ........ ment should app ear c l ear l y i n the estimates. I believe if ' and ability, who was well acquainted w ith colonial affairs, ' this matter were looked into, we should find that a very and who was one of the founders of one of the most success. considerable percentage of saving could be effected. I know ful colonies—he meant that of Canterbury. The third gen the right h on . gent l eman has a large body of clerks who, tleman was Mr. Elliot, who represented th e W ar - o ffi ce, having been brought up on the old system, would be disin- and whose appointment was amply justified I y the part dined to adopt a new one. I w il l not dwell further upon he had taken on this committee. Th e la port stated, that point, but I mus t a dd t h at I th i nk there is some extra - in the first place, that the col o ni es con t r ib uted towards vagance in the cost o f our s t a ff . Id o not w i sh to select in- their own defence about one-t en th o f th e cost, and it went dividuals, but in order to d o an y goo d one must re f er to par on to say that such a st a t e o f thi ngs ve , t- unparalleled in history, and that it w as an ent i re i nnovation upon the tioular CAM Until lately there w as no suc h thi ng as a gene earlier treatment of h er co l on i es b y E ngland. He (Mr. ral officer on the staff i n th e G uar d s, t h at duty b e i ng genera ll y Adderley) wished t o s t a t e , b ecause he believed there were undertaken by some officer at the Horse Guards. Then,again, many people in thi s coun t ry w h o were ignorant of the fact, there are some corp s w hi c h h ave more officers than theyre that when the Am er i can co l on i es were first established they quire. They are al so cer t a i n i tems i n t h e paymen t o f St a ff officers which I think it wou ld b e f or th e com f or t of th ose not only maintain e d th e i r own defence, but they met the officers themselves s h ou ld b e i nqu i re d i n to. There a re a l so regular armies of F r a nce an d S pa i n on the American con tinent and defeat e d th em. Th ere were several instances of other appointme is of cons id era ble emolument which it would be well to inquire into. A great number of general requisitions being made upon them, of their attacking Places in the posse ss i on o f t h e F rench and the Spanish, and officers receive from £5,000 to £lO,OOO or £ll,OOO a y ear . P Now, I think £5,000 or £6,000 a year is a sufficient sum for adding them to the 'dominions of the British Crown. The a bishop, and therefore enough for a general officer. I Mutiny Act was not extended to America till 1758, and it know it may be considered invidious to make these re- was then the troops of England began to be sent to that marks, but unless some one does it we shall do no good. country. But to revert to the report. It went on to state An hon. and gallant gentleman has stated that we have that anomalous as this system was, it was aggravated by 150,000 effective men upon the establishment, exclusive of the inequalities of it : that some colonies, which seemed to India. I wish we had 150,000 men at home, b u t th a t require help the most, were helped the least. Again, in figure includes the troops in the colonies, which amount to some of the rich colonies her Majesty's troops had allow -30,000 or 40,000 men. We must of course keep garrisons ances made to them at the expense of the colony, and a in certain fortresses, but the question of keeping troops in consequence of this was that her Majesty's Government the colonies has been treated of in an able report recently were obliged to raise the pay of the troops in those colonies laid before Parliament, drawn up by three civilians, Mr. where the allowances were not made. Lord Grey, when he Hamilton, Mr. Elliott, and Mr. Godley. Among the con- was at the head of the Colonial-office, suggested that all tents of that report is a maxim which it laid down, that the that England should do should be to maintain that amount real defence of the colonies is in the people themselves, of force in each colony which might be considered neces and not in paltry detachments disseminated through the sary for imperial purposes. The report dealt with this pro colonies. (Hear, hear.) That is no new thought, however, position, and gave three or four reasons amply sufficient for for I recollect when I was much younger I lamented the not agreeing with it. In the first place the committee erroneous system whi c h preva il ed of having garrisons in asked who was to say what f o r ce was sufficient for imperial almost all the places in our possession. That was at a time Purposes. The committee divided the colonies and depen when the French had no large fleet ; but whether she has a dencies into two classes ; first, those which were formed fleet or not, I h o p e th e G overnment will always bear in mind for imperial purposes—whethe r f or m ilit ar y p ur p oses , suc h that the real d e f ence o f t h e country is best cared for by hav- as Malta and Gibraltar, or b enevo l en t p ur p oses , suc h as lag a great mass of troops concentrated near the heart of those which were formed for the suppression of the slave the empire and taking the chance of some little island being trade. The second class were those which were territories attacked; our best pl an i s no t t o garr i son a ll posts, b ut to and had governments of their o wn; an d th e re p or t l a id down the principle that there was n o reason w hy thi s mass our troops up o n a cen t ra l po i n t. E ven at the cora mencement of the tremend ous mu ti ny i n I n di a , we h a d country should contribute to the d e f ence o f thi s c l ass o f nearly 12,000 men, nearly 10,000 of the line, at the Cape of colonies, except that they were not represented in that Good Hope. The Governer of the colony hid such great house. Mr. Elliot adopted the report in the main, but he regard for good troops, th a t a lth oug h h e rece i ved several added to it representations of hi s own . H e wou ld now pro orders to detach troops he did no t d o so . H e was f i rst in- ceed to notice Mr. Elliot's obj ec ti ons . M r. Elli ot would structed to send troops to the Crimea, but he declined to not accept the proposition that there was any reason why E comply, and subsequently h e rece i ve d more t h an one order, England should undertake th e d e f ence o f t h e co l on i es, ex cept that they were not repre sen t e d i n th e H ouse of Corn as has been proved before a committee of th e H ouse o f Cora- cept ; but he said that th e co l on i es h a d ot h er cla i ms upon Mons, from the Colonial D e p ar t men t, t o sen d troops to Ind i a, the mother country, that i n f ac t th ey t oo k more of her pro but he held back. Th e f ac t was we were spending nearly a million a-year for the advantage of the small population of duce than independent states. The same argument was the Cape of Good Hope. (Hear, hear.) That is one instance made use of last year by Sir George Grey in a speech in of the effects of the old system. Except in the fortresses which he contended that though the people of this country which must be held by garrisons, Ido nog see that there paid the cost of the colonial defences in the first instance, need be any considerable number of troops in any other they were reimbursed by the prices which they obtained for posts. A very important communication was made to the their goods from the colonists. In other words, he argued different colonies by the right hon. gentleman the Colonial that there was not an English blanket or pickaxe sold to the Minister in Lord Derby's Administration, pointing out to colonists on which they did not pay something towards the them that they w ere near l y support of the English army and na v y. B u t if th a t was th e all increasing in pop u l a ti on an d wealth, and ought t o d eve l ops their own moans of local de- case, there was no foreign country which consume d Eng lish produce which aid not contribute to the support of the fence without expecti ng any ass i stance from the mother English military establishments. Again, it was urged th a t country except in case of war . Th at . po i nt has also been ably dealt with in th e re p or t t o w hi c h I have b efore referred, because Australia consumed more per head of E ng li s h pro -' and I hope the pres en t Government will follow up those sug- duce than the United States, dependent coun t r i es were gestions and say to the colonies that th e y mus t pl ace th em • better customers than independent o nes . B u t t o t h at logic selves in a position of self defence. Some have, indeed, d on e Mr. Godley had given a very p er ti nen t rep l y. He simply so. Australia has commenced, and Canada has made consider- took another illustration, and said that, inasmuch as Canada able progress. The two provinces, I believ e , h ave a m iliti a took less per lead of ou r goo d s th an t h e Un i ted States, a amounting to about 200,000 men, a force f ar grea t er th an dependent stateimported less of E ng li s h pro d uce t h an an in ourdependentone. He also point e d ou t th e f act t h at the own militia. The gallant general o pp os i te h as re f erred consump to a most important point, the reserves of the army. wh en tion of British articles by the United States was much less Parliament was prorogued at the end of last session there ) before than after they had obtained their independence. was one paragraph in the Royal speech which attracted my The whole argument was based upon a fallacy which they attention and gave me much pleasure. Her Majesty con- used often to hear put forward when economic laws were gratulated Parliament that measures had been taken to form not so well understood—the truth being that foreign and reserves both for the army and navy, and that the national colonial countries purchased our produce, not on account of defences were a paramount o bj ec t i n t h e pol i cy of the Go- their political connexion w ith us , b u t s i mp l y b ecause it was vernment. I think still that ought to be a p aramoun t eon • commercially speaking to th e i r i n t erest to d o so. (Hear, sideration, but lam sorry to say the reserve for the navy hear.) Mr. Elliot next proceeded to lay down the principle has proved most i ns i gn ifi can t i n numbers, and the reserve that the aid to be furnished by th e mo th er country to her of the army hardly ex i s t s at all, or at most only t o th e ex - colonies in the matter of milit ar y d e f ences ought not to be tent of a few hundred men . W e h ave, no doubt, a consi regulated by a fixed rate. Th e re p or t, on t h e other hand, derable force in the shape of vo l un t eer corps, wh i ch we owe contended that the amount of ass i s t ance s h ould be settled entirely to the public spirit and p a t r i o ti sm o f t h e country, by a rule, from which th ere s h ou ld b e no deviation, The Government are entitled to ver y littl e cre dit i n respect except by way of exception, o f w hi c h exceptions par of that force, for th e t ru th i s th a t f or a t i me t h ey seemed to liament would be able to take cogn i sance. Mr. Elliot doubt whether they should enc ourage or di scourage t h e wished to leave the matter, as at p resen t, t o t h e discre movement. (Hear, hear.) l am sorr y t o see th a t an h on. tien of the Colonial-office ; but it was th e ev il s ar i s i ng from baronet (Sir R. Peel) has th oug ht it necessary to give no- the present system which had cause d th e ga ll ant general tics of a motion that th e vo t e on t h e est i mates for the volun- (General Peel) to appoint th e comm itt ee . Th ere could b e teer force should be red uce d. I can only say that I believe very little doubt which p r i nc ipl e was th e w i ser. Mr. Elliot divided the colonie s i n t o f our diff erent classes, in the movement has been, on th e w h o l e, very sat i sfactory, and was happy to see th e amoun t o f t h e force lately stated autho- stead of the two specified i n th e repor t ; b ut those four, ritatively to amount to 120,000 or 130,000 . l am sure that the after all, resolved them s el ves p re tt y muc h i nto two—viz., right hon. gentleman th e S ecre t ary f or War will give to that those in which the Europ ean e l ement was stronger and important force all the en couragement i t so well deserves. those in which it wa s wea k er . H e ment i oned the ' West (Hear, hear.) I rather regret, however, that steps have not Indies as an instance which had a peculiar claim for a been taken to enlarge the basis of the force. (Hear, hear.) large contribution to their defences ; but having been an lam afraid th a t i n some quarters there is a little jealousy officer of the d e p ar t men t, h e must have known that the felt as to allowing the people at l arge to j o i n in this.move- troops upon which th e E uropean i n h a b itants relied for pro tection against a risin g o f th e co l oured population were meat. I will only rem i n d suc h persons that one of the themselves men of colour. (H ear .) N o d ou b t, i f there was greatest Powers of E uro p e —P o l an d— fell and disappeared from the rank of nations th roug h the jealousyto be an exception from th e fi xe d ru l e, t h e West Indies cracy towards the of the aristo- would present the stronge s t case f or such an exception in great mass of the pe o pl e . (H ear. ) I very their favour. But why ? It was b ecause th i s country had much regret that nothing h as b een d one to establish a volunteer force in Ireland. (H ear , h ear. ) I know very well interfered most with its nat ura l p o li cy, w i th its supply of labour, and with the pric e o f it s produce. Mr. Elliot men. that an idea exists that the p eo pl e o f I re l and are disaf-tioned Ceylon as a country which contributed 50 p er cen t . fected, and that those who p ro f ess th e R oman Catholic re • ligion are not so loyal to th e B r iti s h C rown as they ought of the cost of its def ences , an d sa i d that no more bur todens should be throw n u p on i t, b ecause a great ex be. It appears to me , h owever, that the sympathy which many of the Irish people have evinced for the Papal penditure was going on in railways and other works of pub cause ought not to excit e th e l east apprehension. There lic utility. But what a reason. W e were making railways, is no reason to suppo se , b ecause sympathy has been mini- and carrying out great works of publi c u tilit y i n t hi s coun fested towards the Pop e , th a t th ey are therefore disloyal to try ; but for all that ever y poor man was called upon to con the British Governme n t. (H ear. ) I t i s a complete mis- tribute his share toward s th e d e f ence o f t h e empire. (Hear, take to think so, and one th a t oug h t to be rectified. We hear.) The prese n t s t a t e o f t hi ngs could not be allowed to are told that the law d oes no t a d m i t at present of the em- remain ; and what he w i s h e d t o as k t h e Government was, bodiment of volunteer s i n I re l an d . If such be the law, I how they were go i ng t o d ea l w ith th e i mportant report which say, as I have said before, that it ought t o b e a lt ere d w i t h- had been made by thi s comm itt ee ? T hat report proposed a out delay. (Hear.) In th e l e tt ers o f t h e D uke of Welling- material change in ou r p resen t sys t em, a change which in ton, just published, and t o w hi c h I h ave already alluded, I his (the right h on . gen tl eman ' s ) op i n i on would be of very find that in 1808, wh en th ere was i n fi n i tely greater cause great benefit to th e coun t r y, wou ld a dd greatly to the effi ciency of the army, wou ld b e a tt en d e d b y a considerable re than now of disaffecti on t owar d s t h e British Throne, the Duke writes with much sa ti s f ac ti on to say that he has or- duction in the amo un t o f our t axa ti on, and would impart ganised a volunteer forc e o f b e t ween 40,000 and 50,000 safety and vigour to th e co l on i es t h emselves. He did not a -. men ; and the population w as cons id era b ly less at that time ask the Government t o ac t upon t h at report hastily, or with o than it is now. We have h a d I r i s h m ili t i a regiments in this out due consideration ; b u t h e w i shed to know whether they country, and I should lik e t o k now if any one ever thought were prepared to adopt it s p r i nc i p l es and to carry them into of distrusting those troop s ? (H ear. ) Th ere are, too, the effect as opportunity p resen t e d ? Irish constabul ar y, a l mos t a ll o f w h om are Roman Catho- Lord R. CECIL diff ere d ent i rely from the views of the lies ; but I never he ar d th a t di s l oya l ty was imputed to that right hon. gentl eman w h o h ad just sat down. He thought fine body of men. Th ese, i n my op i n i on, are all arguments it a matter of regr e t th a t th e report had got into the hands o to prove that we ought t o h ave a strong volunteer force i n of hon. membe rs ; f or h e did not consider that the practice Ireland as we ll as i n thi s country. With regard to the which was gaining groun d, o f su b st i tuting for the speech of feelings of the peopl e o f I re l an d on t hi s subject, I would a minister in that h ouse a pr i nted opinion of his permanent refer with muc h p l eaaure to an excellent speech lately de- subordinates, was lik e ly t o b e productive of benefit. How livered by the Catholic Bishop of Kerry, in which he an- ever, the report had been published, and the only result was swered some stat ements said to be made rather too that it disclosed a serious difference of opinion whi c h th ere favour able to the French Government. He said such statements seemed to be no way of settling, except by referring the mat arose from a want of "consideration ; that he did not be- ter to acommittee of the house. Two of the committee (Mr. lieve his fellow -countrymen or the priesthood would be so Hamilton and Mr. Godley) appeared to him to have rather wanting in common sense as to desire to have a species of exceeded thelirnits of the reference which the gallant gene despotism in Ireland such as existed in France ; and he re- ral (General Peel) had made to them ; for instead of exa minded them that they would not have been allowed in mining into the circumstances of each colony, one by one, France to make such speeches as had been made in reference they had gone into a statesmanly discussion of a number of to this subject. (Hear, hear.) The late Secretary for War metaphysical topics, such as the best mode of exciting a feel (General Peel) had spoken of the exact force now in this ing of patriotism, and other matters, which were wholly country, mid has declared it a s hi s op i n i on that that t orce beyond the p urv i ew o f their instructions. He had the greatest respect for Mr. Godl e y, b u t he did not think th a t is quite inadequate. I n th a t op i n i on I entirely concur. (Hear, hear.) The no m i na l f orce i n thi s country at the much stress could b e l a id on t h e fact that he had been a present moment is qu it e i na d equa t e, an d l am not satisfied colonist and wa s now a t th e W ar -office, because having been himself in the c o l ony whilst Mr. Godley w as th ere, h e with its composition. L e t us econom i se as f ar as we can . NO one will be readier to d o so th an myse lf ; b ut t h e pea _ (the noble lord) was en titl e d to state that Mr. Godley held then the same view s th a t h e h a d expressed in the report ; session of a numerical force th a t w ill ena bl e us to fight in the field is the great o bj e et th a t we oug ht t o a i m at. (Hear.) and the fact of hi s su b sequen t connection with the Depart ment of War had th ere f ore h a d not hi ng whatever to d;, with We are told th a t we h ave 150,000 men, but we have no such number in the U n it e d Ki ng d om. (Hear, hear, from them.lie (the noble l or d) mus t a l so d i spute the claim of Mr. Willi ams .) Th e hon. member for Lambeth no doubt the Canterbury c o l ony , th e most successful that this coun a but try had `ever founded. Th e f ac t was i t had entirely failed this includes m en f or t h e colon i es, and some of them knows all ab o ut it. W e may have 150,000 men in py, areevery in particula r i n w hi c h it differed from other colonies. highly garrisoned. (Hear.) Ido not believe we have more had e tu a hg c e r hsm e e itatttehl themselves advantages greatta hn p e rfectl y a f g e (Mr. Adderley—No, no.) The colonists had not received er fertile iltwer prosperity,uhl ae i e nl t i dh t o h ft h e t y e4h, we r e eocoo l district,dE gro innn got- than 30,000 troops of the line at home ; of these 20,000 are h i f i i o l as i s r hd e t mr h d ee e ; an i p i iid3hf who per t o h r o depots, and these depots are in a most unsatisfactory state, because they are made up of recruits assembled to gether without amalgamation. (Hear.) A speech was lately made by a noble and gallant lord i n ano th er place on admit Mr • Godley's ti tle to be considered the most success this subject, and he recommended that second battalions ful t c l o e lonist that had ever left these shores. The right hon. should be substituted for depote. This is a matter worthy gentlem a n wasted. m a n B said ßut th that a sum of £4,000,000 was going to be of serious consideration, and I hope it will receive the atten ot Mr. Elliot, u e fact was that, accordin g to the statement tion of the Government. (Hear, hear.) I have to apologise the amount whowas ought ln on such a point to be well informed, to the house for the length of the observations I have ren upon ni li otnry ,000,000, and half of that would be a y stations, kept up for purely imperial tured to make, but my excuse is the vast importance of the sp ent . objects. (Hear.) It would also be rememberedthat ' in hardly subject. (Hear, hear.) a single case would the colonies be endangered but for the Mr. ADDERLEY said ha had given notice of Xis inten tion . lwhich we had at home • quaire a of with our neighbours. When to call the attention of the house to the question of the talk a French war utmost • panic prevailed defences of the colonies, and he now broug ht forw • there was athe aid that l Australiaand at the Cape. Why ? Not because the co in anhiect, first, because he could have no other oPPore lonists had any quarrel with the Emperor, but because they t nnitY; and, secondly, because if it was to be discussed it must be di scussed new or never. If they were now to vote feared lest in the event of war he should send hi s s hi ps to molest their ports in order to annoy the mother country. 15 millions f or arm • y estimates, it was material to consider whether eetne Again, the Canadians were in no danger themselves of being . four out of those 15 millions were more or involved in a dispute with the United States—they were less thrown away They had are p ortof a government com mittee on this subject, only afraid of a dispute between America and England, and h is object in rising now was to ask the Governm ent about the isthmus of Panama, or about foreign enlistment. Whether they intended to act on the report, and, if not, what they intended So at Ceylon, what the colonists had to fear was lest our to do on the sub..ject. It was in March, 185 9,government of India should produce a ferment in the na that th gallant general then at the head of the War- o ffi ce communicated tive mind which might extend from the mainland • • to their of witted to the Colonial office and the Treasury his sen se own shore. At the Cape the Dutch beers would require the immense ince . ** once and mischief of the existing system, and he 'went" scarcely any aid against the Ka ffi rs, were it not for our in urged on them to lay down some principle on which ane terference. They would shoot down the K:Ars like wild ment should be based, and he laid down as the bawsisarrangQ- animals ; and it was only because we thought that p olicy an arrangement a double principle—that th s count ry of such inhuman, and prevented them from adopting it—bec aus e , ought is contribute to the defence a the colonies a gainst f moreover, we had allowed two growing republics to be aggression, but that the colonies should provide f °reign es tablished at the north of the colony—that p the settlerses re- or their internal defence themselves • a nd quired aid from this c)untry. The object of Mr. Godley , he suggested that in order to draw up a scheme embodying these was to destroy the dependence of the colonies—but what principles a committee should be appointed representing the three de- would be the result of such a course ? The first European partments, the War-office, the Colonial-office, and the Tree- war that broke out they would find that their connexion with Bury. Such a committee was appointed accordingly. It con- us cost them too dear, and they would throw off their alle awed o f Mr. Hamilton, well known in the house for many giance at th e earl i est oppo rtunity. Mr. Godley refe rre d t o years, who represented the Treasury; Mr. Godley, who t he ti case o f A merica, and the Greek colonies of the olden represented the Colonial-office—a man of th e hi g h est worth h me• But in the o ne case a militia was no s mner formed y encoura g ing patriotism and a spirit of self-dependence r'9r~.ar THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, JUNE 1, r 1860. in the colonists than their arms were turned against our selves. In the other case it was palpably absurd to call the Greek colonies, colonies in one sense of the term Syra was in fact, no more a colony of Corinth than England was of Saxony. He believed that the adoption of Mr. Godley's proposals would very seriously tend to undermine our great colonial empire. (Hear, hear.) Mr. C. FORTESC UE entirely concurred with almost everything that had fallen from the noble lord, but he was sorry the subject should have been introduced in this in formal manner. He particularly regretted the absence of the right honourable baronet who had lately held ' the office of Colonial Secretary (Sir G. B. Lytton), for he was satisfied that his opinions would have been very different from those of the right hon. gentleman opposite. The right hon. gentleman asked what course the govern ment intended to take with regard to the report. It must not be forgotten that there were virtually two reports, which were incompatible with each other. The first of those documents was a very able one, but its practical utility was somewhat doubtful. It would have been better, in his opinion, if the gallant gentleman had not fettered the committee by his instructions, but he was bound to say that they seemed to have entirely forgotten what those in structions were ; because, instead of laying down a scheme for each colony, they had merely recommended one simple, rigid, uniform rule, to be applied indiscriminately to every case without regard to its particular circumstances. Mr. Godley, in the first place, proposed to give to each colony the initiative responsibility and management of its mili tary defences, and he suggested that the inhabitants should contribute to those defences in a certain definite and fixed proportion, without reference to the poverty, the wealth, the danger, or the necessity of any particular settlement. Such a scheme he (Mr. Fortescue) felt convinced would not be practicable. The fact that the question of peace or war was not in the hands of the colonists rendered it in cumbent upon the imperial government to treat them with consideration, and to go to some expense for their protec tion. A great part of the right hon. gentleman's speech was devoted to the question whether it was worth our while to keep our colonies ; but being of opinion that it was the business of the Colonial-office to preserve them, he would not follow tho right hon. gentleman the arguments he had offered on the subject. (Hoar, hear.) It was a mistake, however, to suppose that the chief risk which the colonies ran lay in the danger to which they would be exposed in the event of a great European war ; it was to be found rather in the hos tility of formidable native tribes. (Hear, hear.) No doubt a great deal of expense had been incurred at the Cape, but at all events the colony had been saved the hor rors of another Kaffir war. It was the dangerous combi nation of races under cne government, such as existed in the 'West India Islands, the Mauritius, and Ceylon, which required for the preservation of public safety the mainte nance of a considerable force. Considering their means of defence, and their possible dangers, the colonies ought to endeavour to do all in their power for themselves, and at the least expense of imperial troops. The military spirit was rapidly rising in Australia. (Hear, hear.) Those colonies stood least in need of imperial troops, being com pletely isolated from other countries. Still he should be sorry to see them left without a certain number of English red coats, at least sufficient to constitute a guard for the government. The recommendation of the report that a uniform proportion of imperial troops should be supported in each oolony was not practicable ; for in many cases they would have to reject some portions of the voluntary aid furnished by the colonists themselves. (Hear.) The go vernment would use their best endeavours to reduce the military expenditure in the colonies, where it could be done; but they would not undertake the responsibility of carrying out such a rigid and uniform scheme as was re commended in the report. Mr. A. MILLS thought that the subject was a proper one for the consideration of a select committee. The report expressed some very 'valuable opinions ; but he rather con curred in the dissentient views expressed by Mr. Elliot. It was most desirable that some means should be adopted of proportioning imperial to colonial expenditure in the different colonies. As the estimates were now framed it was difficult to ascertain, in many cases, what proportion of expenditure was really made in respect of the colonies. The expenditure on the colonies was much exaggerated. He did not recommend that we should take lessons from France ; but he found that the cost to the country of Algeria was as much as the cost of the whole of the British colonies. 'We made a large colonial expenditure under the head of fortifications, especially in North America. But what was the value of the fortifications of Quebec, unless in the event of an attack by the United States, which, to be successful, must be favoured by the colonists themselves ?—and of what value would the fortifications then be? In such a state of things the con nection of the mother-country with that colony would be severed at once. He should be glad to see the estimates prepared in a more distinct manner, so as to show the exact amount of colonial expenditure. PENSIONS OF NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICERS AND SOLDIE RS. Gen. UPTON asked if it was the intention of the Go vernment to recommend a revision of the warrant of the Ist July, 1848, with a view to its improvement, and especially to increase the rates of pension of non-commissioned officers and soldiers discharged the service in a helpless condition ? At present these pensions were miserably low. Those who had beef in the army less than ten years were only allowed a temporary pension of 6d. a day for 18 months ; if above ten years, the same amount was allowed for two years ; and if they had served 14 years, for three years. The only re • maining point to which he would allude was the very in sufficient pension granted for total blindness. It was only from 9d. to ls., which he considered to be totally inadequate. Mr. W. WILLIAMS said many attempts had been made to convince the public that we had not a sufficient force for the internal defence of the country. It appeared, however, that of the 145,000 men proposed to be voted, 105,000 were to be stationed at home. In addition we had depots of regi • ments in India, 15,000 ; marines on shore, 6,000 ; enrolled pensioners, 15,000 ; embodied militia, 23,700 ; disembodied militia, 44,300 ; yeomanry cavalry, 15,000 ; Irish constabu lary, 12,000 ; rifle volunteers, 100,000. We had thus a total force of 336,000 men—sufficient, certainly, to repel any in vader, no matter how powerful he might be. A great deal had been said of our colonies. It appeared from a recent return that their military defence cost us £3,590,000 per annum, in addition to which we had to pay a considerable sum for colonial bishops and magistrates, making the total expen diture £4,877,000. Other countries managed things differ ently. The Dutch colonists not only maintained them selves, but remitted £2,600,000 a year to the Home Govern ment, while the Spanish colonists remitted £1,150,000 to Madrid, after paying all their own expenses. Yet we were taxed to the amount of £4,877,000 for our colon:es. Party struggles very often took place between the front Opposi tion and the Treasury benches, but he noticed that when ever the public money was to be voted away there was never any difference between them. (Hear.) The estimates showed an amount of extravagance never equalled in this country in times of peace ; but the gallant general opposite stood up to defend them, and the Secretary for 'War was no doubt glad to have such powerful assistance. Looking at the expenditure of the country when Sir R. Peel and the Duke of 'Wellington were at the head of affairs, and con trasting this, or even the expenditure. in 1852, with the enor mous sums now asked for, he was astonished at the extra vagance which now prevailed. (Hear.) The Guards, com prising 6,300 men and 261 officers, cost in pay a10ne£206,300. On the other hand, six regiments of the Line, containing 123 men more, but only 228 officers, cost less by £42,840, and in clothing cost less by X 11,470, making altogether a saving of £54,310 as between the Line and the Guards. He regarded such a difference as inexplicable and unnecessary. Col. KNOX asked the right hon. gentleman to state the course which he intended to pursue with regard to the pur chase system. He had been understood to say that the pur chase system should cease at the rank of major, and that from that point promotion should be by selection. Now, the real fact was that selection meant jobbery. (Hear.) No thing was more invidious than that an officer should rise to the rank of major, and then find himself with no guarantee that ho or his interests would afterwards be in any way protected. Sir C. NAPIER, in answer to the hon. member for Lambeth (who asked what made it necessary to spend so much more money now for the army than during the Go vernment of the Duke of Wellington and Sir It. Peel), ob served that at that time there was not a Napoleon Bona parte on the throne of France, nor had France then an army of 600,000 men. (Hear, hear.) For the same reason the money now spent on the navy must be much greater than during the period alluded to, for it had been officially announced to that house that France could man her fleet when England could not man hers. A friend of his who had just come from France had asked a gentleman high in the naval department of that country whether the statements made in that house relative to the condition of the French navy were correct, and the answer he received was that as regards the ships they were very nearly correct, but that as regards the personnel they were far understated. He had also been told by two gentlemen who had been at Toulon beingTstt hha Therefore t - ropef he flt. oaot rch r o werehalrei andngsee a: it seven atdhhn atedhtthey i3t: oeyeei instead French toraee s amn' greatd c s eh t on o f r e store no the eell f adef los every ssretcnoet hosd than nomf description utaahtl ffsrol ;oeratonnnu fortnight country yt n eo. called attention to the fact that at the present moment the number of sailors for the British fleet was 7,000 below the I vote of the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) Sir F. SMITH expressed his regret that the present es timates were not deferred until the Secretary for India had made his statement for India, because the number of men for India must, to a certain extent, regulate the expense of the establishment at home. (Hear, hear.) Mr. PALK said that the Secretary of War had under aken to lay on the table of the house the report of the com- mitteo on the defences of the country before Whitsuntide, and he wished to know why that ii4.omise had not been fulfilled. Of all questions the most important was that relating to the defence of the country, and it should not be allowed to be put off until nearly the end of the session. (Hear.) The subject was a grea' er one than even reform or the wine duties—(hear, hear)--and he warned the Go vernment that it was not a question to be trifled with. Many questions might be postponed, as undoubtedly they must be; but the question of the national defences could not be postponed. The right hon. gentleman had promised to state the details of the steps intended to be taken, and also to lay upon the table the report of the commissioners, ' but if that was not done at once there would be no time for the house to consider the subject fully as it deserved. Mr. BENTINCK wished to know whether, before vote 12, which included a lump sum of £645,355 for fortifications, was taken, any statement would be given of the details. He believed that all such expenditure as that incurred at Alder ney was worse than wasted—(hear, bear)—because when ever the contingency occurred which all had in their minds, although they did not like to name it—a French war—we should have to find the men to defend the works. We should be found to have built those fortifications for the enemy, and not for ourselves, as the harbour was neither a harbour of refuge nor of observation. Mr. S. HERBERT—In answer to the last two speakers, I venture to say, in spite of the hard words of the hon. gen tleman opposite, that I have not in any way shirked or evaded my duty. I have given every attention to the sub ject, which is one of immense importance ; and I think no gentleman will consider the Government ought to have laid the report of the commissioners on the table without at the same time being prepared to state the course they pro posed to adopt. The report is, I believe, so far advanced in printing that I shall be able to layit on the table next week, but it would not be right to do so until I could state the course we propose to take with regard to the recommenda tions contained in it. In answer to the question of the hon. member for West Norfolk (Mr. Bentinck), I may say that I never intended to ask the house to vote a lump sum with out knowing the details. I inserted a lump sum because when we were about to deal with the report of commis sions which contemplated works on a large scale, it was necessary for me to put a vote in the estimates which might be necessary if any action were taken upon the report, but which must be altered in its proportion and distribution ac cording to subsequent decision. I proposed a vote, but Ido not think the house ever anticipated that I should ask them to grant it until all the details were explained. The details shall be given before the house is asked to pass any vote upon the subject. The questions raised have been so numerous that I hardly know where to begin. (Hear.) I think the hon. gentleman opposite began by asking whether I could produce the correspondence that had taken place as to the yeomanry not being called out for training this year; and another hon. gentleman said there was great alarm in the regiment he commanded lest the Government should intend to do away with that constitutional force altogether, and that the men were falling away in consequence. The omission to call out the yeomanry is not without precedent. It has occurred several times within my recollection, and no further back than 1857. The yeomanry, however, have gone on and flourished since that time, and I should be sorry that any step taken by the Government, as this has been, under pressure, should lead to the impression that they under valued the services of that force, or that it was not intended to call them out again. I believe it is a most valuable force. It may be a matter of consideration whether improvements in its organisation might not be introduced, but the Govern ment has a high opinion of the value of the yeoman* ycorps, and would not desire at all to discourage them. This year I have been under severe pressure to provide materiel, so that I was glad to avail myself of every source that would enable me to meet what is most important—the permanent defence of the country. The hon. baronet behind me has referred to changdof officers from the Guards to regiments of the Line. I know that of late years the Guards have been very severely dealt with, and no one is more responsible for that than myself, for I felt it my duty on former occasions" to deal with great severity towards the Guards. But just look at the difference which the warrant of 1854 has made. Before that time the Guards, having always a stop in army rank in advance of the Line, and in attaining by brevets the rank of major-general they did occupy a position in the list of major-generals quite disproportioned to their number. But the warrant of 1854 did away with all that. It is true they can exchange into the Line, but how seldom do you find that done unless under very exceptional reasons ? A lieutenant-colonel of the Line is qualified to become a full colonel, but if he exchanges with a lieutenant-colonel of the Guards he is qualified for nothing. That has made a very great difference with regard to these exchanges, and the gallant officer opposite has written an able pamphlet in which he complains of the effect of the change which has taken place. (Hear.) I feel, therefore, that when speak ing of this ancient corps, many of whose special privileges have been taken from them during the last few years, and when I recollect that I have been the instrument of doing things that have pressed hardly upon them, I am bound to say something for them. (Hear.) The hon. member for Lambeth spoke of the great advantages possessed by the Guards, and seemed to deride their services, as if they con sisted of little else than marching from the Tower to 'Wind sor and from Windsor to the Tower. The hon. member, in so speaking, was utterly forgetful of the duties which they have to discharge. (Hear.) 'Whenever there is an important service to be performed, an expedition to be un dertaken, we uniformly go to the Guards, as a corps we are sure to find in the finest state of discipline and efficiency. (Hear, hear.) I was asked by the hon. baronet (Sir J. Trelawny) whether or not aides-de-camp were subjected to examination. I have to reply that, not only are they sub jected to examination, but to one of some importance, and which exceeds in extent that of almost any other coun try in the world. They are examined, not on military matters only, but in languages and other accomplishments. I find that in Prussia, for example, which is the most exa mining country in the world, and where there is an almost pedantic adherence to theoretical tests, there is no exami nation for aides-de-camp. It is, however, strictly carried out with us, and I believe it is attended with very great advantages. (Hear.) A gallant officer opposite spoke of the expense of the disembodied militia, but he also said that, after all, if it was found to be of service for recruiting the array he did not see how it could be abolished without de triment to the public service. (Hear.) There used to be a vast amount of men in this department on paper, who were maintained in this position because it was said that if that number of men no longer existed the difference would be filled up by men who would only enlist to abscond. All these paper men had now been struck off, I do not know it officially, as the returns have not yet been sent in ; but I have reason to believe that all the men have been struck off who do not really exist, and who have either deserted or gone over to the line. I have also just sent out a circular to the colonels of disembodied militia, containing the most stringent regulations against recruiting parties at tempting to induce disembodied militiamen to leave the militia to join the line, because I think there is no more use in asking a militiaman to go to the line than there would be to ask a man to leave one regiment for another. (Hear, hear.) The officers of the militia when they know they are protected from that invasion will have recourse to a class of men not very valuable for the line but valuable for the militia—men of fixed habits and whose characters are known. (Hear, hear.) In this matter I think that not only the house but the public cut of doors are run away with by the comparison which they make between an embodied and disembodied regiment. It is said that 28 days' pay will not make an efficient soldier. No one says it will. If you want to make an efficient soldier pay him all the year round. But if you want a reserve that will not cost much, and which by further training can be made efficient men, then I say the system of 28 days' pay will, as near as possible, combine the two objects of cheapness on the one side and a certain advance towards efficiency on the other. (Hear, hear.) Tke hon. member for Lambeth complains that the two sides of the house uniformly support each other when the estimates come to be considered, and that the economy of the service cannot in consequence be carried out ; for, whatever difference of opinion there may be on other ques tions, they are always, he says, sure to combine to main tain the estimates. Now, I think I can explain this by say ing that on other questions we are more or less regulated by party feelings, but that no one can shut his eyes to the necessity that exists of having this country at all times in such a state of defence as to make it secure against the ag gressions of an enemy. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gen tleman (Gen. Peel) has referred to the system of reliefs, of which he complained. All I can say is that, though the rules which have been laid down for reliefs are adhered to as closely as possible, there are often disturbing causes at work that prevent them being regularly carried out. Thus, the Indian war, the Russian war, and the Indian mutiny very materially disturbed the arrangements that had been made, and at ono time during the Russian war we had not more than 24,000 troops in England. This arose because, with a small establishment, we were attempting to carry on a great war. (Hear.) 'We are told of those times when, during the administration of Wellington and Peel, the military and naval expenditure of the country was so much less than at present, the army estimates being £11,000,000 less than now ; but we must recollect t hat this great reduc took place when the whole face of Europe was exceedingly pacific ; and we must also recollect that for that state of things we are now paying—(hear, hear)—for it was the lowering of our stores, and the reduction of our armaments in those times that have imposed on us now the heavy burdens we are called to bear. (Hear, hear.) We have been for years at the War-office striving to retrieve this error, for we were deficient in stores in every part of the world, and it is an error that I trust we shall not fall into again. (Hear, hear.) I think we are bound to look most closely to every item of our vast expenditure; but I con fess that I find great difficulty in carrying out this object, in consequence of the claims that are constantly put in now by one class of officers and now by another, all of which would go to increase greatly our military expenditure. The Secretary for War, however, is bound to recollect that we have got the most expensive and most highly paid army in. Europe, and that every time the cost of that army is increased the effect is to diminish its num- bers. (Hear.) A question has been put to me about the Land Transport Corps. I had thought that the question _ _ of the Land Transport Corps was long since settled, and I confess I was somewhat alarmed when I was charged with not having kept good faith with the persons making the claims now urged. An hen. gentleman spoke of their being promised 6s, a-day, and that the agreement was,that they were to be taken for two years, but that agreement, it turned out, was only to be carried into effect provided their services were required. Then the hon. member for Green wich got up with a gigantic placard in his hand—(a laugh) —and I confess I was somewhat alarmed, thinking it almost impossible but that some recruiting zealot, regard less of truth, had made some promise of a three months' gratuity on service for two years. (Hear.) Not a bit, The placard agreed with the attestation. The Government had adhered to their bargain, and there was not a shadow of a case of grievance against them, Lord Panmure appointed a board of officers to consider the complaints of these men. They refused to acknowledge the authority of a deputation or a committee, for these men had got into the lawyer's hands. But they heard every individual, and they settled their claims satisfactorily. I now come to the question which my hon. and gallant friend (Colonel Lindsay) brought under the notice of the house relative to the offi cers who in 1826 accepted unattached rank en half-pay, the Government . having thought it necessary to relieve the list. My predecessor in office thought that the case on the part of these officers was a good one, and he referred to the Treasury, who refused the claim. I am, therefore, impartial in the matter. I thought there was a doubt upon the interpreta tion of the general order, but I think, upon the whole, that the Treasury was right. No one would have made so im provident a proposal as that these officers should be pro meted by steps of unattached rank, and should have, not only the advantages of half•pay, but also the advantages of full-pay during that time. Two years before that period a rule was established requiring six years' service as field officer before a man could become a major-general. These officers thought it a hardship that they should go upon half pay and lose 4s. fid. a day for so many years. But they got their steps in promotion, they were freed from foreign service, and they rose in rank to be brevet officers. The hon. and gallant gentleman says they did not intend to marry, but that was their misfortune. (A laugh.) What was the object of the rule ? A man was to serve six years as a field-officer, because the experience of a field-officer's rank is necessary to make a General officer. If the Go vernment guaranteed to them a dispensation from the six years' service as field-officers, they would not only have all the advantages of half-pay and full-pay, but another advantage which full-pay could not procure for them—namely, the dispensation from service as field officers. This would bo a solution of the problem that has puzzled so many people —how to eat your cake and have your cake. They would gain a step in rank, they would be receiving their half-pay at home, and at the end of the period they would be in as good a posi tion as an officer who had been under a grilling sun in the East or 'West Indies, or had served in the most un healthy climate. Although there might be a doubt on the words of the general order, I think the Treasury upon the whole came to a wise and just decision in this particular case. 'With regard to the question of the compulsory re tirement of medical men at 55, the warrant gives them great advantages in a higher half-pay. There is, too, this to be said, that, although the rule may be said to be an arbitrary one, it is not only advantageous to the soldier, but to the medical profession, as it entails more rapid promotion in the regiment, and gives the soldier the benefit of the service of men in the vigour of their age. I now come to the question raised by my hon. friend, who says we have been doing a great injustice unwittingly to some of the colonies. There are in the estimates all the sums that the different colonies pay in aid of the militia expenses of the colony, and which are paid under arrangement into the Exchequer. The par ticular colony of Victoria, which is, I admit, one of the most liberal, does not appear on that page, because the sum is paid into the Exchequer either as colonial allowances, or to cover the whole pay and allowances. 'When the regi ments are serving in India the payment is left blank, be cause the Indian Government undertakes the payment. When a regiment in Australia is paid entirely by the Aus , tralian Government it ought to stand with that explanation against it; but there is this difficulty in the way:—We make our estimates for the year to come three or four months before the estimates are agreed to. We ought to know beforehand what the colony intends to do. The co lony at different times, either from local financial difficul ties or other causes has taken different views, and we, of course, are not aware whether by a vote they may not de cline to advance their money. If, however, we could come to a clear and definite arrangement for a payment extending over a certain period the difficulty would be got rid of. I, for ono, should be glad to see a colony so l,ublic spirited receive full credit for its liberality on the estimates. I will not now enter upon the subject of colonial defences intro duced by the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Adderley)—a eub ject of all others requiring the most careful, deliberate, and delicate handling. (Hear.) It would be taken very ill in the colonies if the Government, without consulting them and giving them an opportunity of pointing out any excep tional circumstances, were to announce that they were ' going to apply a Procrustean rule to them as to the pay ' ment by them of the expenses of colonial defence. (Hear.) We have the advantage of the labours of the committee, and the very clear and able rule they have laid down, and, on the other hand, we have the exceptions taken by one of the committee to some of the opinions in the report. If the world were ruled by logic the arguments might be very good, but men have feelings and passions which must be taken into consideration, and upon no subject is it more necessary to act with care and caution than upon one so largely appealing to the interests, feelings, and hopes of the different colonies that compose our colonial empire. (Hear, hesr.) I come now to the question of the artillery corps. I must say that a great deal of the argument of my hon. and gallant friend I thought it extremely sound, but I can not help suspecting that he as an artillery officer did not examine both sides of the question. The artillery and en gineer officers are a peculiar body, and have almost a mo nopoly of a vast number of places and appointments to which they are fully entitled by their attainments, but from which officers of the line are excluded. They aro a seniority corps—(hear, hear)—without purchase and with out selection, and the result is that until a great aug mentation of the force has made the junior officers young men you have men of very advanced age in the upper ranks. Tho average age of the full generals of artillery was, I believe, lately 84 years. (A laugh.) The average age of 15 officers commanding brigades, answering to the colonels of regiments, was 78, and of 16 unattached officers 71 years. The three supernumeraries are, I believe, all employed. The same observation, of course, applies to the engineers. The pay of artillery officers is very high. A bri gade of artillery, which answers to a battalion of the line, has a colonel, who is generally on leave, another colonel in command, and four lieutenant-colonels. The officers of ar tillery enjoy an entire monopoly of the staff of their own corps. It would not do to make an officer of the lino Adju tant-General of Artillery; but the staff appointments of the line are open to officers of artillery. Now these are all de cided advantages. The number of artillery officers employed in other departments not strictly military is very large, and I own that, in my opinion, it is only what they are fairly entitled to from their superior attainments. There are 29 officers of artillery on the staff, including Colonel Bingham, Colonel Wodehouse, Colonel Dickson, &o. Colonel Wilford is Governor of the Cadet Company ; Colonel Tulloch, Royal gun-carriage department; Colonel Askwith, gunpowder manufactory ; Colonels St. George and Rowan, and Lieu tenant-Colonels Campbell, Younghusband, and Smythe, War Departfnent ; and so on, to the number of 40 altogether, in civil employment. All these things must be taken into consideration as a make-weight against the lesser employment of the staff of artillery officers in other capacities. I think that officers of that corps placed in command in districts where the artillery amount to 4,000 or 5,000 men have a fair claim to consideration, and I believe this matter is now under the consideration of the Commander-in-Chief. As the hon. gentleman (Mr. Connolly) who complained of the scandalous outrage committed on his proprietary rights as the owner of a large fishery, has postponed his motion, I need not go into the question now. His argument is that when the War Department lease a property, they do so for military purposes alone, and therefore acquire only the right of firing guns or whatever it may be, without any manorial rights. I cannot admit that such is the case. I hold that wh.n the War Department buys land, it buys everything belonging to it, the same as any other purchaser ; and I do not see why the public should be robbed of those particular rights, when they pay for them. General PEEL. —And pay a great deal more than any body else. Mr. S. HERBERT.--A great deal more, no doubt ; and therefore I do not see why we should give up any of our rights. I come now to the speech of the gallant officer the member for Westminster (SireDe L. Evans). He said, with great truth, that in a committee upstairs after we had discussed the subject of the responsibility of the Secretary of State for the appointrce4 of officers of high rank, when he asked whether or not I was responsible for the appoint ment of General Grey to be colonel of a regiment, I replied that I should prefer to have that question addressed to me in the House of Commons. I thought that if a transaction of that sort was to be publicly questioned, it ought to be done where it could be publicly defended. (Hear, hear.) The gallant officer began by reading extracts from the evi dence given by Lord Fitzroy Somerset, to the effect that the colonelcies of regiments were given to three classes of officers—first, to those who had distinguished themselves in war; second, to those who had performed colonial ser vices ; and, third, to those who had commanded efficiently and respectably at home. The gallant officer supposed that General Grey's appointment came under the last head. That is a mistake ; it did not come under the last head. I lace seen it stated in the public prints that General Grey was an officer who was never out of Hyde-park ; and by way of cumulating all his offences that he was a guardsman. (A laugh.) General Grey never was a guardsman. He was in the line all his life. He was attached to the 43d Regi ment, and was twice on colonial service with it. He was colonel of the 71st Regiment, and visited Canada with it. lie commanded it for nine years. During the whole time General Grey was in the army there were only two occasions when there was a foreign expedition of any kind—one was to Portugal and the other to Canada, when the rebellion had broken out ; and he happened to take part in both. I wish to destroy entirely the notion that General Grey has been a stranger to service out of Hyde-park. He comes under the category of having served in the colonies. Lord Fitzroy Somerset laid down correctly the rules which had hitherto prevailed in disposing of these colonelcies. They are not given according to strict seniority. Officers are occasionally passed over by those who are their juniors. That was General Grey's case. He was passed over th eo or four times, and (ace by a very excellent officer, who had I seen no service—General Breton, who is now in Mauritius. It is said there are officers senior to General Grey, who can point to long and distinguished service. General Bell's name has been mentioned; but on referring to the Artny L ist I find he is consider ably the junior of Gen. Grey. There are officers who have served in the Peninsula, but theyhave done nothing since. What has any one to say against General Grey ? Officer after officer has been appointed with less service than he can show. In answer to the question addressed to me on this point, I may say that the Secretary of State is responsible for th ,, se appointments, but that he acts on the recommendation of the Commander-in-Chief. The Duke of Cambridge said to me—" I think General Grey's services aro such that he ought not to be passed over any longer; I think nothing could be more wrong than to make him colonel of a regiment on the ground that he has a place at Court." No one can deny that. " But," he added," " it would be most unjust to refuse him the place if he has otherwise a title to it, because he has an office at Court." I asked his Royal Highness whether, if General ffrey were General Smith, with no place at Court, and un connected with any known family, but with some service to point to, he would be entitled to the place, and the answer was that he would have got the appointment before this. Therefore, merely because a man happens to possess a place at Court, and there may be an outcry in the public prints about his getting any other place, it would be a shabby, cowardly thing not to give him a post of this sort when it falls vacant, and he has otherwise a fair claim to it. Once lay down the rule that a man who has a place at Court is not to receive the reward to which he is otherwise entitled for service in the army, and what will be the re sult ? Her Majesty has surrounded her children with officers of distinction. The Prince of Wales is attended by General Bruce and Major Teesdale, Prince Alfred by Colonel Cowell, Prince Arthur by Major Elphinstone. Well, once make it the rule that the moment a man accepts a Court place a black mark shall be set against his name, that his past service shall not count, that he shall be de barred from receiving the legitimate honours of his profes sion, and you exclude from the places which it is the inte rest of the country to have filled by the best men the very officers whom you would yourselves select, as the best per sons to discharge the duties. Nothing could be more un just than to lay down such a rule. The gallant officer who brought this matter forward said I spoke to him so confi dently he supposed I had a good case. I believe I have a good case, and I repeat it would have been a mean, shabby, cowardly thing to have refused an officer, on account of name, position, or connexion, that reward to which, in the ordinary course of service, he was fairly entitled. It has been said that Sir H. Inglis has been recommended to the colonelcy of a regiment out of his turn. I own that such a step may be taken exception to ; but as the gallant officer had re turned from India with broken health, and as this was the regiment with which he defended Lucknow, both the Duke of Cambridge and myself were of opinion that it would be a just and graceful act to offer him, although out of his turn, the command of the regiment with which he had been so honourably associated. (Hear, hear.) I will not now make any further observati ns, but after this long discussion I trust the House will allow me to take, at any rate, the first vote. The difference in the number of men is very small, only about 2,000. The discussion may be taken on the next vote for the pay, and we shall then have taken one step in considering these estimates. Mr. DISRAELI said he would only interpose for a mo ment, as he thought the right hon. gentleman was entitled to their assistance after the able manner in which he had replied to the diversified subjects brought under his notice. (Cheers.) The question which had been raised by the gal lant general the member for Westminster was one of greater importance than the mere merits of an individual or the pro priety of a single appointment, and he thought the House would do well to express, though not in any formal man ner, its opinion upon it. He could certainly have no pre judice in favour of General Grey, because his earliest re collections were associated with having stood three con tested elections with General Grey, in all of which he had been vanquished by that gentleman, and they were at a time of life when defeat did not leave the same amiable results which in after life were experienced. (Laughter.) But he thought the right hon. gentleman the Secretary of State had given a sufficient answer to the charge that General Grey was not entitled by his services to promotion. The right hon. gentleman had very properly reminded them that the question was whether they were to lay down the rule that because an officer held an appointment at Court, he was therefore to be looked upon as a soldier who was not able to obtain promotion in the profession to which ho belonged. It was not merely in re ference to our own Court and our own Princes that those in immediate attendance on the Royal family were mem bers of the military profession. It had been the custom during the last two centuries in Europe. It was quite un necessary to dsscuss the propriety of the custom. Very good reasons, if necessary, could no doubt be given; but this was a practical assembly, which had only to deal with facts, and it was a fact that the households of Sovereigns and of Princes near the throne wore formed invariably of members of the military profession. The consequence of any rule that they should not be entitled to preferment in their profession must be, that they must have, in the Royal household, a very inferior class of persons. It was not the interest of the country that the Sovereign and princes of the Royal Family should be surrounded by military parasites. (Hear, hear.) As long as the present system prevailed—and he saw no reason why it should cease to pre vail—it was of the utmost importance, and of the highest public interest, that officers who accepted appointments in the Royal household should be men of the highest class: (Hear, hear.) The public interest was that individuals occupying such a position should, by their culti%ation and general feelings, be men who would, by their high qualities, exercise a beneficial influence on the sentiments of those with whom they were brought in contact. The gallant gentleman whose name had been called in question was one who certainly fulfilled that condition. He was the son of an illustrious statesman. He was a distinguished man in his own profession, And ho believed it would be acknow ledged by all that he had performed the duties of his office at Court in a manner which entitled him to the confidence of the public. (Cheers.) Colonel DICKSON said the appointment of Sir J. Inglis was really little more than a graceful compliment, as he would have to resign the pension which had been conferred upon him for distinguished services. The house then went into committee about half-past 11 o'clock. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. Mr. S. HERBERT asked the house to vote 1,007 addi tional men, about 7,000, in lieu of 5,000 having come home from India. There were some small reductions, scarcely of sufficient importance to mention. On the third vote, for the land forces, there was a reduction of £54,000, from the reduced number of men to be raised. There was a saving of £5,000 in the purchase of horses, in consequence of Field Artillery not raised. There was a small diminution by the abolition of a military prison in Canada. There was a re duction of £75,957 in wages, which was part of the reduc tion made on the vote for stores, in consequence of a less amount of work performed in the carriage department. The carriage department was at the head of the gun department, and therefore it was thought better to make a reduction to that extent. With respect to the reduction of clothing it was owing to their not having to give the three kits to the troops from India which they would have to give if the men had to be raised. Colonel HERBERT complained that regiments of the line at home were kept weak while a largo sum was ex pended on the embodied militia. Mr. S. HERBERT, in reply to General Upton, said he could not hold out any hope that the Government would increase the rate of pension ; and, in his opinion, it would he a better course to increase the pay than to increase the pension —a course which he was persuaded would tend more to increase the efficiency of the army than that sug gested by the hon. and gallant general, and moreover, as the term of service had been shortened, there was not the same necessity that would otherwise exist. The vote, after a few remarks by Sir F. SMITH, in re ference to a discrepancy in the figures, was then agreed to. On the motion that a sum of £3,236,701 be granted to her Majesty towards completing the pay and allowances of the land forces, Colonel LIN 'SAY said the army was very much in debted to the right hon. gentleman for the improvements ho had introduced. With regard to the old warrant, he begged to observe that when a man had given eighteen years' service, he became entitled for that time to increased pay for good conduct marks ; and also if he served sixteen years clear of that time without having been on the default book. The number of years under the new warrant had been reduced, and might, in his opinion, be still more re duced with advantage. With regard to officers who had served five years on the staff, he thought it a great disad vantage that they might then be removed from that branch of the service. He had given notice on that subject. Take, for instance, an officer holding the rank of adjutant general, after he had served five years upon the staff at £l6O a year, he was then removed from that rank and re duced to an income of £2OO a year. He thought that not right. They now wanted to encourage their best officers to serve on the staff, and they also compelled them to go through a superior mode of education to prepare themselves for the staff appointments ; but after they had got them they in a short time removed them from that branch of the service. Now he contended, if they compelled their best officers to go on half-pay after they had served with ability on the staff, such a course would prove very discouraging. They, by such a course, turned those officers adrift. Sir JOHN TRELAWNY said he was not satisfied with the explanation of the right hon. gentleman the Secretary at War in relation to the appointment of General the Hon. Sir C. Grey to.the colonelcy of a regiment. I was not, in his opinion, sufficient for the right hon. gentle than to state that General Grey was in every respect quali fled for the appointment. His opinion was that the righ hon. gentleman should have shown the house that no other officer had been passed over whose services were more dis tinguished, or who was more entttled to receive such an appointment. (Hear, hear.) Lord HOTHAM said, the right hon. gentleman the Secretary at War had stated on a former occasion that officers would not henceforth be considered qualified to hold staff appointments if they had not passed the exami nations at the Staff College; but that principle was not adhered to. With regard to General Grey, he begged to _ . _ say that he considered hint quite qualified and entitled to fill the appointment that had been conferred upon him. (Hear, hear.) Mr. CHILDERS observed that the Australian colonies contributed to the maintenance of the troops which gar risoned them, but those allowances were not so clearly s forth in the estimates as was desirable. Colonel S. KNOX wished to ask the right hon. gentle man what was tile use of a general comnianding a brigade of Guards ? The appointment was a new one, and he should be glad to have some information on the subject, though he should be sorry to follow the hon. baronet the member for Tavistock in his attack upon the Guards. Mr. WILLIAMS called attention to the great increase in the cost of the staff, and asked the right hon. gentleman to give the committee some explanation. Colonel P. HERBERT justified the appointment of an officer comm , nding a brigade as being a most useful and valuable one. Col. NORTH wished to know why "command money," which appeared in the estimates to the amount of £14,000, was not given to cavalry regiments, to which the with holding of it was a matter of great dissatisfaction. He complained also of the treatment shown to seven deserving general officers, to whose case he had directe/ attention, mid which had been admitted to be well founded. In a country of such wealth as England it was certainly very discreditable. ' Sir S. NORTHCOTE asked the right hon. gentleman how soon accounts would be produced showing our financial relations with the Indian Government, and how it was that the number of men on the effective strength of the army appeared to be below the estimates, when really they were above it. Mr. S. HERBERT, referring to the remark of the hon. member for Lambeth on the increase of the expenses of the staff; said that a portion of that increase arose from the offi cers en service in China having been placed on a letter footing, and the difference represented their increased pay and allowances at home and abroad. With reference to the general rule for appointments to regiments, he might state that it was to this effect : that an officer was entitled to his regiment either for home or for colonial service. With re spect to the question put to him by the hon. member oppo site, the member for Stamford, he thought the hon. gentle man himself, from his former connexion with the Treasury, was better able to explain those mysterious transactions. The hon. gentleman did not see the estimates for Indian allowances, and for British officers service— but the fact was, that no such estirqqt ,repared. Those allowances were paid _inissariat chest, and the accounts were thence to the Treasury, after which oalanced by votes of credit. The aye tern was cure:—oas and objectionable, but until recent oc currences he know nothing of the matter. With regard to the other question of the hon. gentleman, he would only observe that the apparent discrepancy arose from the dis charge of numerous men from India having enabled recruit • ing to go on very briskly of late, so as to more than balance its general slackness during harvest time. The result NI as, that the army had not for a long time been in so effective a condition. The vote was then agreed to. £387,285 was then proposed for miscellaneous charges. Colonel KNOX moved that the Chairman report pro gress. After some conversation the motion was agreed to. The house resumed. The Nuisance Removal and Diseases Prevention Bill passed through committee. The remaining orders of the day having been disposed of, the house adjourned at a quarter-past one o'clock. A MAN BU.RNT IN TEXAS. The Buchanan (Texas) correspondent of the New York Tribune writes on the 25th of April : " Allow me a place in your columns for the follow ing recital of a tale of horror, but one of many of which this section of our country is the theatre, but which for obvious reasons are kept out of the pub lic prints, and especially out of those honest and. patriotic sheets which would hold them up in their true colours to the detestation of an enlightened people. A young man, whose name and residence I shall suppress for fear of harrowing the feelings of a fond mother and sisters to whom ignorance is bliss, came into this country as a colporteur. He had a valuable stock of books, maps, &c., consisting mainly of bibles and religious works, the standards of the Christian world, histories (Prescott's and. others), school books and Atlasses, and, unfortu nately for him, a few copies of the Impending Crisis, and some tracts favouring the cause of freedom. These were accidentally seen by some intense pro slaveryite, who raised the hue•and-cry against the --- Yankee Abolition book pedler.' A mob soon had him in their clutches, and he was at once unmercifully flogged, and robbed of his waggon and its contents. Here, perhaps, the affair would have ended, but just at this time a negro man was brought upon the ground, purporting to have been caught running away from his master with a forged free pass in his pocket. He (the negro) was hence forth lashed to a tree, and, after a most barbarous beating, he was told to say who had given him the pass. The half-dead and terrified negro, glad of a chance to save himself, and well knowing who his captors wished him to accuse, pointed ont the col porteur, adding, in answer to artful questions, that he had received a knife from the pedler, with the advice to take it and cut his way to freedom, and to burn his master's house over his head, in revenge for the barbarous treatment he had received. Now, of all this there was no proof but the word of the negro, who would have told anything to procure his own release ; and yet it was enough for the in furiated mob, now numbering about 150 owners of slaves, their overseers and sons. After a short consul tation the poor man was delivered into the hands of six of the most furious of the crowd. These rolled. the waggon under a tree, covered it over with dry faggots, and over the whole of it poured a barrel of tar; having first stripped their victim and im mersed him in the same, they passed a rope around his neck and over a limb. Then raising him so that his toes barely touched the top of the combus tible pile, the negro was made to apply the flaming torch, and the tragedy closed in the flames of the hellishly concocted funeral pile, and the shrieks of the agonized victim. In justice to outraged hu manity, I must say that this was witnessed by those who would have had it otherwise, but too few to avail aught against the infuriated mass." UNTR Y MARKETA - MANCHESTER-MAY 31. The attendance this morning was limited, and the pro ceedings were altogether of a holiday character. Scarcely any business occurred, both buyers and sellers being equally indifferent, and we repeat the quotations of this day sea night. BIRMINGHAM-MAY 31. A fair attendance, but trade dull ; a less supply of wheat to-day, and prices were in favour of the seller. Barley only taken in retail. Oats 6d per qr decline. Beans unaltered. Little demand for peas. MELTON MOWBRAY—MAY 29. There was a moderato show of wheat to-day, with a (hill business at the annexed prices :—White wheat, new, 52s Od to 57s Od ; red, 47s Od to 54s per 36 stone ; barley in small supply, at 38s to 44s for malting, and 32s to 35s per qr. for grinding , ; oats, 28s to 35s Od per 24 stone ; beans, 50s to 51s for old; new, 49s per 38 st. PLYMOUTH—MAY 29. • The busine , s was slow to-day. Prices for wheat as before; barley scarce, and at late price s ; oa t s wero d ear . A thi n attendance at market. The quotations are—English white wheat, 52s to 56s ; red, 53s to Ms per qr ; French do., 45s to 46s ; grinding barley, 30s to 32s ; oats, 24s to 268 ; and flour, fine, 39s to 40s ; seconds, 378 to 38s. EDINBURGH GRAIN—MAY 30. Wheat on the top is Od down average Os 2d down. Barley on the top 2s Od down average Os 3d down. Oats on the top Os 6d down.. average Os 6d up. Beans on the top 2s Od up .....average Os 3d up. Averages per Imperial quarter. Wheat.... Barley 1 19 0 8-12ths Oats 1 11 7 3-l2ths Beans Total Supply and Sales. Wheat 96 0 -qr; Sold 792 qrs 8ar1ey........ 141 qrs Sold 137 qrs Oats 975 qrs Sold 485 qrs Beans lO5 qrs Sold 70 qrs DERBY SMITHFIELD-MAY 29. There was a smaller supply of fat beasts to-day, with a fair attendance of buyers ; the demand was good, at no advance in prices. Sheep were in less supply, but sales were ready. Fat and store calves were plentiful; sales brisk. Fat pigs in average supply for the season. Beef Bd to Sid Veal . 7d t• 7} Mutton .. Lamb 9d to 10d Rough fat, 4s 9d per stone. Hides, 3id to 51d; calf skins, 7d to Od. BIRTHS. GORDON.—On the 25th ult., at 24, Herbert-place, Dublin the wife of Lieut.-Colonel Gordon, 75th Regiment, of a daughter. GROSVENOR.—On the 31st ult., Lady Constance Grosve nor, ofason e . K,NG.—On 3oth ult., at 8, Lowndes-street, Belgrave square, the wife of Henry King, Esq., of a daughter. MARRIAGES. CALLA NDER COVENTRY. —On the 30th ult., at St George's, Hanover-square, John A. Burn Callender, Esq., of Preston-hall, Midlothian, to Mary Frederica Dundas, eldest daughter of the lion. Henry Coventry. DAY—KITCHENER.—On the 30th ult., at All Saints', New market, William Henry Day, Esq., M.D., of Newmarket, to Emma. elde r d aughter of William Cripps Kitchener, Esq., of Newmarket. DEATHS. BAY LEY,—O n the 29th ult,, at St. Leonard's, William B. Bayley, Esq., for many years a director and at one time chairman of the Hon. East India Company, aged 79. CHAMBERS.--O n the 29th ult. at the Vicarage, A s hb ur y, the Rev. W m . Chambers, 8. , D., Vicar of Ashbury, aged 74. EIVING.—On the 28th ult., Mrs. Ewing, relict of William Ewing, Esq., Ardrullen, Dunoon, Argyleshire. TIMBRELL.—On the 30th ult., at Clifton, Captain C. W. Timbrell, Bengal Artillery, aged 38. WARDEN.—On the 30th ult., at the Elms, Southsea, John Warden, Esq., R.N., aged 77. WOOLLEY.—On the 30th ult., at 20, Eldon-road, Kensing ton, George Woolley, Esq., M.D., aged 77. iJONDON : Printed and Published by AIURDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Bun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the county o Middloser, Friday, Juno 1, 1860. • \ \ l l .l