The Sun. — London, England, 1858-03-27 00:00:00

with a little care a great improvement might be effected in that particular point. The Marquis of BREA.DALB..A.NE suggested that some temporary means might be adopted at once to put the barracks in a better condition. If a practical man were sent to the different barracks donne various parts of a great deal might be temporarily at the country, little expense. The returns, as amended by leaving out that portion relating to the correspondence, were then agreed to. EDT CATION. The Earl of POWIS called attention to a regulation I of the Committee of Council on Edecation, by which the capitation grant was not extended to schools to which contributions were made by charities. The coun cil, he said, allowed the capitation grants if the contri butions were made by private individuals ; but in the case of a school in Shropshire, to which a large contri bution was made by a charity, the council refused the ordinary grant. The Marquis of SALISBURY said the rule which governed capitation grants was, that they should be granted in aid of voluntary contributions. Money, however, which was paid under the obligation of a trust, could not be said to be a voluntary contribution. K. was quite aware that this was a subject which re• Et rni ed great attention. Consideration of the sub ject "(tight lead to some alteration of the rule, but he could not express any opinion on a subject that had but lately beet: brought under his notice. Earl GRANVILLE thought there would be great difficulty in altering the rule. Voluntary contributions were required, because their being made was evidence of the want of a school, and also because when there was a voluntary subscription there was some security that proper attention would be paid to the school. The General Beard of Health Bill, and the Cambridge University Matriculation and Degrees Bill, were seve rally read a third time and passed. Their lordships then adjourned at seven o'clock. HOUSE OF COINIMONS. --(YESTERDA.Y. The SPEAK3I3. took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS• The Ely Valley Railway Bill was read a► third time and passed. CARLISLE AND HA.SVICK RAILWAY BILL (1857). Mr. C. FORSTER moved that the evidence taken upon the Carlisle and Hawick Railway Bill, in session 1857, be referred to the committee on group 13 of rail way and canal bills, in reference to the Carlisle, Lang holm, and Hawick Railway, and the North British Railway (Hawick and Car Ede Junction Railway) Bill. —Agreed to. ROYAL ASSENT. _ _ The Speaker and members of the house attended the House cf Lords to hear the Royal assent given by com mission to several bills. (See Lords' report.) THE CAGLIARI. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER laid the papers on the table referring to the capture of the Cagliari. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Mr, HAMILTON postponed moving the adjourn ment of the house till after the Chancellor of the Exche quer had introdaced his bill for the Government of India. THE PRESS IN INDIA. Mr. M. GIBSON moved for copies of a letter from the Chairman and Deputy-Chairman of the East India Coot pa.ny to the Right Hon. Chas. Watkin W:lliams Wynn, dated Jan. 17, 1823, on the subject of the press in India : Of reply of Mr. Wynn to the foregoing dated April 5, 1823 : Of draught paragraphs proposed by Court of Direotors to be sent to their presidency at Fort William, in Bengal, dated the 7th day of April, 1820, with correspondence between the India-house and the Board of Control there anent ; of any despatch or despatches from the Court of Directors of the East India Company to the Govern ment of India relating to Act XI. of 1335 ; sof a notification issued by the Government of India on the 18th day of June, 1857, wish reference to the provisions of Act No. XV. of 1857, that application for licenses to keep or use printing presses must in future be made to certain authorities named therein, and naming the ordinary conditions on which such licenses may be had ; also, of any notifications, similar in terms or tenour to the foregoing, which have been since isued by the Government of Madras or the Government of Bombay. Of any memorial or remonstrance addressed to the East India Company praying for the disallowance of Act XV. of 1857, and the reply or replies of the East India Company to the same ; and of any records or proceed ings by the supreme Government, or any of the local Governments of India, taken with reference to enforcing the provisions of Act XV. of 1857, and of any notices or warnings to printers or publishers, with any articles or writings inculpated under the same.—Agreed to. PUPIL TEACHERS. Lord R. CECIL moved an address for returns of the names of all schools which receive augmentations for the masters, or stipends for the pupil teachers or monitors, from the Parliamentary grant, in which pupils were received during the year 1857 who paid more tha❑ 6d. weekly in school fees, or paid it at some greater in terval than weekly ; and of the trade, calling, or em ployment of the fathers of all the children in the six schools which received the largest capitation grant dur ing the year 1857.—Agreed to. CHELSEA BRIDGE. In answer to a question from Sir J. SHELLEY, Lord J. MANNERS said that Chelsea-bridge would be open to the public on Monday next. Government had been considering how the toll on foot passengers might be removed. THE GREEN PARK. Lord ELCHO gave notice that af,er Easter he should call attention to pending alterations in the Green park. THE WESTERN BANK OF SCOTLAND. Mr. I.3RADY asked the Secretary for the Home De partment if it was the intention of her Majesty's Go vernment to institute any criminal proceedings against the directors of the Western Bank of Scotland / The LORD-ADVOCATE said he had no materials for such a prosecution, and he had no reason to suppose he should be furnished with such. CHURCH LEASES. Mr. HUTT asked the Secretary for the Home De partment whether it was the intention of the Govern ment to introduce during the present session, any measure for the permanent settlement of church leases, in accordance with the promise given last year by the Administration Mr. WALPOLE said the bill introduced into the house last session and affirmed, but not passed, in con sequence of the lateness of the session, would be re-in troduced in the Lords with a view of its passing the hones this session. NEW ENGLAND COMPANY. Mr. CHRISTY asked the Secretary for the Colonies, whether any return had been made to the Remem brancer of the Exchequer, of the income and expendi ture of the New England Company. Lord STANLEY said no such return hat been made. REPORTING THE DEBATES. Mr. LAURIE asked the C3mmissioner of Works whether some mode of arrangement of the house could not be adopted to ensure accurate reports of the speeches of bon. members. Lord J. MANNERS said he was not aware any such complaint existed. No such communication had been made to him from the gentlemen who reported the debates on the subject ; but if the hon. member had a plan on the subject and would submit it to him he would take it into consideration. (Hear, hear.) PASSING TOLLS, &c. Mr. MACKINNON asked the President of the Board of Trade what was intended to be done on the question of passing tolls and local dues on shipping. Mr. HENLEY said the Government had no intention at present to introduce a measure on this much•vexed question. OFFICERS OF THE DOCK YARDS, &c. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it was tho intention of the Govern snout to review the position cf the officers of the dock yards and ♦ictualling yards as regarded their scale of superannuations, or to adopt any memtires founded upon the report of the Superannuation Commissioners, 1857! Sir F. BARING asked if the scale of superannuation as recJrnmended by the commissioners would be revised? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was the intention of the Government to revise the whole cf the superannuation& THE CIRCUITS OF THE JUDGES. Mr. WARREN ipked the Secretary her the Home Department whether the Government were taking any steps to carry into effect the recommendation of the Common Law (Judicial Business) Canonnissioners' Report, particularly with reference to the re-distribution of the circuits ; and, if so, whether by the authority of the Crown or by Act of Parliament ; and whether such arrangements will be completed against the ensuing summer circuit.. 1. 4e a Ir. Vi r ALPOLE said it would be impossible to ttY arrangements till the corporation of Manches ter had made arrangements for holding an assize in that town. DR —PARTMENT OF JUSTICE. Mr ' W * EWARTainquired of the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether V measures were being adopted by the Government ment of justice ? r the establishment of a depart- The CHANCELLOR of the n E X CHEQUER said the Government had not yet had referr e d of consider ing the particular proposition ANNUITIES TO PROCTORS. Sir Sir W. RHATHCOTE asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, what means had been taken by the Govern ment to bring un d er a djudi ca ti on the claim s of the several parties who may be entitled to compensation under_ th e P ro b ate Acts of last session ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the claim s gent in anaou t-d to a quarter of a million annu ally. (Rear, n ' tire T,' and cries of " 01) " . ) It was inacossible for aury con a j t ? Consider them, and he had issued a Tre cote, a n d I i":_ 11 to the L,,rd Advocate, Sir S. North investigate ti . ,,, F : t t , t , zaa,ter of the Char ENLlSTrq 4eut in. (Hear hear.) to Mr. G. VANSITra u r (3 Y, a 9tobA a E r .. ) or.ftzrW War whether the project Ult. euliati e—"e Secretary N. the coast of Afrlca had been dnelit°""n or other only deferred : and whether any steglYnniTdc>teds on to ascertain the practicability of for enl is ting ser veicafriT taken natives in the Cape or eliewhere Indi a . „ r other places where the climate had proved destructive to the health of European troops ? Mr. H. BAILLIE, after relating to the circumstances de similar to that given i n the House of Lords, sai th project bad fallen to the ground. BARRACK ACCOMMODATION. Lord EBRINGTON gave notice that after Easter he should bring the subject of barrack accommodation tract:Jr the no:ice of the house. INCUMBE RED ESTATES COURT {IRELAND). Mr. WHITESIDE gave notice that after Easter he should introduce a bill for the better provision of the sale and tranafer of land in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) SUPPLY. The house went into Committee on Supply when several votes for miscellaneous purposes were agreed to. THE BUDGET. In answer to a question from Mr. WILLIAMS, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was his intention to make his financial statement as soon after Easter as possible. (Hear, hear.) CUSTOMS' DUTY . BILL. This bill was read a second time. THE NEW GOVERNMENT OF INDIA BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (who on rising was received with cheers) said,-The vote of the 18th of February, by which a House of Commons recently elected declared by an overwhelming majority that, in their opinion, the Government of India should be transferred from the',East India Company to her Majesty-however various and conflicting the opinions then expressed by those who joined in that vote as to the future form of Go vernment for India-appeared to those now responsible for the conduct of affairs to be conclusive in one point namely, as to the termination of the authority of the Com pany. (Hear.) Sir, the very reason which had induced many sitting on this bench to oppose the motion upon which that vote was taken-namely, that at this period of trouble and disaster in India it was unwise to diminish the influence of authority there-(hear)-persuaded us after that disparaging decision that it was impossible for the East India Company to grapple successfully with the still existing danger, and, I fear, the long enduring difficulty which must attend the settlement of India. It is in defer ence to this conviction, and for no other reason, that I, on the part of my colleagues, are now asking leave to-night to introduce a bill fur transferring the Government of India from the Company to her Majesty. But had we been in fluenced by other feelings,-had we acted solely in defer ence to the opinion expressed by the House of Commons-- I do not think we should have been justly liable to those imputations which have been somewhat lavishly bestowed upon our conduct. On the contrary, I believe there is no want of precedents, and of the best precedents, in our Par liamentary history, when men who have been suddenly called to the responsibility of office have found it ne cessary to treat a public question of pressing interest and importance not strictly in accordance with the views which they had previously expressed respecting it, bat rather from regard to the position in which they found it left by their predecessors. (Loud cheers.) It is not necessary for me to prove the accuracy of that statement, because there is an instance fresh in the memory of this house and of the country which I think would have fully authorised our conduct, even had we acted only in deference to the -vote of the House of Com mons. Hon. gentlemen recollect that only three years ago a distinguished member of this house moved for a committee of inquiry into the state of the English army before the walls of Sebastopol. It will be remembered that the Go vernment of that day-a very powerful Government - staked its existence upon its opposition to that motion. The motion was nevertheless carried by an overwhelming majority-a majority as great, I believe even greater than that which decided on the fate of the East India Company. And what then happened ? The noble lord the member for Tiverton was one of the most eminent members of the Government which resisted that motion. By unexpected and unforeseen circumstances the noble lord afterwards was called to undertake the responsibility of forming a Go vernment. He disapproved the motion, and when he formed his Government his opinions remained unchanged; but the noble lord felt that on the whole it was necessary to accede to that vote of the House of Commons, and him self to appoint the committee which he disapproved. (Hear, hear.) No one, however, who eat before the noble lord taunted him with his conduct on that occasion. Every one felt that he took a course which it was his duty as a sagacious statesman to adopt-a course which was in evitable under the circumstances then existing, and which was, in my opinion and that of others, highly beneficial to the public welfare. I say this in answer to imputations that we act consistently in attempting to deal with the question which I have to-night to bring before the house. (Hear.) I do assure the house it is wielfno pride or exultation that I fill the office which now devolves upon me. I am sure th© noble lord (Palmerston) could not have been free from emotion when he rose in this house, and proposed to abo lish that famous corporation which has so long commanded the respect and admiration of every Englishman. I could willingly have wished that it had not fallen to my lot to perform a duty which I believe to be clearly for the public advantage, but which I think no man who is not totally devoid of sensibility can perform without some emotion. This corporation has fallen, sir, from no inefficiency on the part of its chief managers. (Cheers.) It Be certainly not fallen from any want of talent, spirit, and devotion in its admirable public servants. (Cheers.) It has fallen before the inevitable consequences of time, of change, and of pro gress. The circumstances under which it was created and cherished have gradually changed and passed away, and though its fall at last has appeared to be sudden, those who have given attention to its position could hardly have doubted from the year 1853 that the time had almost ar tived, and that without any great delay, when the House of Commons and Parliament would have to consider what should be the most fitting substitute for an institution which in its day has done great service to this couutry, and which will always be remembered with pride and with reverence. (Hear.) The East India Company has fallen very much like that Italian republic which I always thought it greatly resembled. It has fallen in possession of a gallant army, a powerful fleet, and a considerable ter ritory. It has fallen with all the semblance of authority, and it has met its end in the august fulfilment of its duties. But when Venice fell under similar circumstances it was discovered that, whatever was its outward show, it rested on a foundation which had been sapped and was hollow for a, long period of time. "Like - Venice, however, the East India Company has left a legacy of glory to man kind; and in treating to-night of a form of government which, in our opinion, ought to be substituted for that which has become extinct I hope the house will allow me to express my own feelings, and to speak of the company , with that respect which I think every rightminded Eng lishman will always extend to its memory. (Cheers.) Now, sir, the solution of the great difficulty before us is how, as far as the Government of India is concerned which is transacted in Great Britain, we shall combine the promptness, the decision, the energy which are the result of undivided authority, with the knowledge, the experience, and the practice which only can be furnished by a body of men of distinguished talents, who have had considerable acquaintance with the :various and vast forms of Indian life ? How we are to make such a combination is the difficult solution which I shall have to-night to attempt to accomplish. To establish a British Minister with unrestricted authority, subject to the moral control of a body of men who, by their special knowledge, their independence-(cheers) - their experience, distinction, and public merit, are, never theless, invested with an authority which can control even a despotic Minister, and which no more Act of Par liament can confer upon them is, I admit, no ordinary difficulty to encounter, and to devise the means by which this may be effected is a task which only with the indul gence of this house and the assistance of Parliament we can hope to accomplish. (Hear.) That leads me at once to describe to the house the form of government in Eng land which we think ought to be substituted for that East Indian direction which, if this bill passes, will have ceased to exercise any authority. In the bill which I am asking leave to introduce to-night that form of government will take the following shape :-We propose, in the first in stance, that there shall be a high officer of State-a Minis ter of the Crown-who shall occupy the rank and fulfil the duties of a Secretary of State. Iknow,raeumghemy_bethriant; ono discussion of last light-(hear, and al ought, perhaps, to pause for a moment and apologise to the house for proposing the creation of another Secret iry of State. But I may be permitted to say for myself that I never indulged in this objection ; and listening to the discussion then, and on previous occasions, I have never yet heard any satisfactory reason given which should render the institution of an additional Secretary of State in any case objectionable. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, I have been always taught that the model administration we should study and imitate was the old administration of France before the Revolution, which was adopted by the Republic itself on account of its efficiency, and which has only ceased in Franca since the establishment of Imperial institutions ; and in that old administration every Minis- 1 ter of the Crown was a Secretary of State, except the President of the Council and the Chancellor. But I do not wish to dwell upon this occasion upon that which, after all, is rather a point of form than of principle. (Hear, hear.) The new Secretary of State is to be, in accordance with our plan, President of the Council of India, and to have the power of appointing a Vice-President. The point, however, upon which the home very naturally wishes to dwell is, what is to be the constitution of the new Council fur India---(hear) --over which this chief officer of State is to preside. I shall therefore, if the house will permit, address myself at once and without circumlocution to that particular subject. (Hear, hear.) We propose that the Council for India should consist of 18 persons. (Cheers.) We further propose that half of that Council should be nominated by the warrant of the Crown under the Royal I sign manual, and that the other moiety-the remaining nine members-should be elected. (Cheers.) I shall, in the first place, treat of those members of the Council who, in our opinion, should be appointed by the Sovereign. Although our plan is that those nine members should be thus appointed, we are still of opinion that each of those members should have specified qualifications-that they should, in fact, each of them represent some great interest in India (Hear, hear.) They will in fact be, though nomi nated by the Crown, to use a popular phrase, " i epresenta tive men." (Cheers.) These nine members will be ap pointed in this manner. Each of the civil services of the four presidencies will be reoresented. One of those nine persons would be a member of the civil service who hail served 10 years at least in the upper provinces of India, or in those districts immediately under the authority of the Governor-General A second would be a member of the civil service of the lower province of Bengal, who had like wise been in that service for 10 years. There would also be a member of the Council forties civil service of Madras and i one for that of Bombay. A fifth member of this division of the Council would be required to have specified but rather peculiar qualifications. We deem it to be of great importance that in this Council of India there should be some one person who possessed personal experi ence of the courts, character, and feelings of the native Indian princes. (Cheers.) It appears to us that one fault of our administration in India is that there has been too great a disregard of the feelings of those native princes -(renewed cheering)-and too limited an aequeint once with the circumstances of their territory and the eh.. - raeter of its population. We have deemed it, therefore, of importance that in this council there should be some nun who should represent that eminent class with which, fr m our experience in Parliament, many of us are f ire'l:er. The area of selection is of course more limited in this ease than that which is open to us in dealing with the civil services of the three presidencies and the upper provinces, because we re q ui re 10 y ears ' c i v il serv i ce un d e r the Go v:m entof I n di a , fi ve o f w hi c h s h ou ld h ave been passedaresident_o: men political whom w agentlticale desire at the Court ng of by so t m h e is nat native prince. I:_nmeats into::t!eerie7.,:i..luar.tem:h men as I recollect as distinguished I, n younger ~::::esr:l n n: . .r ta e ntered Parliament- - en e n men nenetn , bowie when. acquaintance Indian affairs - men like &ihorough acclualntan Jenkins, who was so well in his detailed to the hous h e7l,l "r he'll'. cl.heei.r,tl)Lowe himself that five out of the nin:,l' e n T lV e V i a el wi A.il i w il e ave n ' w thell iafour militaryr e II service ':i 111-2'3 e t t lib . ,l'clyi,?s,.ki require represent, should e n t firstpossess, of all tMad ras, hat there Bombay , should baenda Bmeennagbiaer:ea spectively' sodas, ant tug \varmies require the Council to represent the Queen s army who should have served in India five years, and that there should also be representatives of the armies of the three presidencies I I have just mentioned, each of whom should have been em ployed in India in those services for a period of at least 10 years. Our object, so far as those nine members are con cerned, is that the Secretary of State for India in Council should, with their aid, be in a position to command that special and particular knowledge with respect to the cir cumstances of that vast region which it is so desirable he should possess. (Cheers.) If, for instance, a question con nected with the affairs of the Upper Provinces should arise, we should have the advantage to be derived from the information of a man who had had a long experience of that particular district. (Hear, hear.) If, upon the con trary, a question relating to the south of India—the cir cumstances of which are so totally different from those of the North-Western Provinces—(hear, heae )---should be brought under the notice of the Government, it would have in this Council a high authority to which to refer. If our diplomatic relations with the nativeprinces should be come a subject of deliberation, then you would have the advantage of the assistance, in dealing with that subject, of a man who had been face to face with those native princes. (Hear, hear.) In short, in the consideration of all those questions connected with our Indian administra tion which may arise you would have a fund of the most authentic and various knowledge which a Minister could command or desire. (Cheers.) But although you will find in this bill that those nine members are to be nomi nated by her Majesty by Royal warrant, and that as often as vacyncies in their number occur those vacancies are to be filled up—and filled up only by persons possessing the same special and specified qualifications as those predeces sors—yet it is the intention of her Msjesty's Government, if the house should support them in bringing in this bill, to introduce into the measure itself the names of the nomi nated members—(loud cheers) —so that, in fact, their ap pointment will have in the first instance not only a Royal but a Parliamentary sanction. (Renewed cheers.) They will therefore enter upon the discharge of their duties sup ported not only by the favour of the Sovereign, but by the approbation of the representatives of the people. (Hear.) I hope, sir, I need not state upon this occasion —indeed, it is under any circumstances unnecessary to do so—that in making the selection of the nominated members of the pro posed Council, the list of whose names I shall deem it my duty in the course of these observations to present to the consideration of the house, her Majesty's Government have had no other object in view than, with the utmost pains and with a due sense of the great responsibility involved, to select for each particular post the best man whose services they could procure, without the slightest reference to his political opinions, or, indeed, to any of those considerations or influences which often per haps exercise somewhat too great a control over public ap pointments . (Cheers.) The names of the nominee mua bars of the council will be submitted to the house upon our responsibility, and with the assurance that in the se lection we have made wo have taken every pains to secure to the country the services cf men of the highest ability and moot influential character. ('-sear.) But their names will be laid before the house, and even though it should be e miss i'. . AnrA..nn i n of opinion that we Lave not exercisedl; 1.; the selection we have made, it cannot at all events charge u with not having appealed to Parliament frankly upon the subject, or not having endeavoured to invest those nine members, though they may be called nominees. (Cheers.) I shill now proceed to advert to the other portion of this proposed Council for India—namely, that which is to be chosen by popular election. There is embodied in this bill a qualification for four of the members of that division of the Council, and it is of this character :—They may be men who have served her Majesty or the Government of India in any branch of service whatever for a period of ten years. They may have been in the army, navy, legal, or civil services in India. Those four places in the Council ate open to any man who has served in any capacity her Ma jesty or the Government of India. They are open also to any man who has resided in India for 15 years, and who may have been engaged in agriculture, as a manufacturer cr planter, or in commerce. Such are the qualifications we propose for those four members, and we further propose that they should be chosen by a constituency constructed in this manner :—We propose that every person who has borne the commission of her Majesty or the Government of India for -0 years, and residing in this country ; or any man who has been in the civil service of her Majesty in India, or the civil service of the Government of India for 10 years ; that every p r ion who is a registered proprietor of the sum of 2,00.1. of capital stock in Indian railways or in any other public work in that country ; that all those who are proprietors of at least 1,0001. in the public stock of the East India Company, but exercising in this case only one vote, should have the power of electing the four mem bers of the Council to whom I have adverte l. (Hear.) The constituency thus formed will amount, as we estimate, to about 5,000 persons. I have now to explain to the house how we propose that the five other members should be elected, and what qualifications will be required of those who aspire to fill those offices. The qualification necessary for the last five members will be this : —Thepersonschosen must either have been engaged in commerce with India or in the exportation of manufactured articles to that coun try for the space of at least five years, or they must have resided in India for the s; ace of at least ten years. That is the qualification which we propose to require for the last five members of council. We propose that the election of these five members of the council shall be confided to the principal seats of trade and industry in this country ; that one member shall be elected by the city of London, ano ther by the city of Manchester, a third by the town of Liverpool, a fourth by the city of Glasgow, and a fifth by the town of Belfast. (Laughter and cheers.) In this manner the chief seats of trade in the three kingdoms will be re presented—London, Glasgow, and Belfast—and also that great industry in this country which is more interested than any other in the development of Indian resources, for India sends us no manufactured articles, but she ought to send us all the raw produce we require. I understand the feeling of the house upon this occasion to be in favour of exposition rather than of controversy— (hear, hear) —and therefore I am limiting myself to narrating as clearly as possible what is the nature of the bill WO propose—(hear, hear)—of course, reserving to myself and my colleagues the right upon all proper occasions of enforcing the policy which we now venture to recommend. I beg the house, therefore, to believe that it is not from any other motive that I now confine myself as much as possible to a clear narrative of the scheme we propose. I shall now have to detail to the house the nature of the consti tuency which we think ought to elect those members, whether they should be chosen by chambers of commerce or corporations, or what other mode. No doubt the com mercial bodies of our great towns are respectable from the character of their members, and deserve the greatest consi deration in dealing with a matter like that which we are now discussing. But commercial bodies are not corpora tions, and it would be in the power of any be ly of men to call thamselves a chamber of commerce without any inter vention of law and without the sanction of time. Munici pal corporations are also bodies which every one must re spect, but they are very limited in the number of their members, and it is not, I think, doubtful that one conse quence of conferring the right of electing the council upon chambers of commerce or upon municipal c.:rporations would be a considerable crop of cadets in the Indian army connected with the members of those bodies. We have given to this point all the consideration which its import ance deserves. All that can bo said for or against has, I doubt not, bean fully considered by her Majesty's Govern ment, and it is our opinion that the election of those mem bers of the Indian Council by the great seats of industry should be intrusted to the Parliamentary constituencies of those places. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) In arriving at that conclusion her Majesty's Government believe that those constituencies will always be animated by a sense of duty, and will feel proud of the confidence which the State will thus repose in them. I ought to state to the house that besides the nine members who, according to the plan of this bill, will be nominated by the Crown and whose names we propose to insert in the bill, it is our idea also with regard •to the first four elected members who in future will be elected by what I may call a special Indian constituency that in the first instance the names of those appointed to them should be inserted in the Act of Parliament. Our ob ject in so doing is to secure for the new council the greatest amount of experience and practical knowledge that can be commanded. Most of those names have been decided upon, and with the permission of the house I will rea. I them. These are, as far as they have been fixed upou, the names of the first nine members to whom I have referred. We pro pose, in the first place, Sir F. Currie, now the deputy chairman of the East India Company, and who was long in the judicial service of the India Goverument. He has been also Foreign Secretary to two Governors-General, Lord Ellenborough and Lord Flardinge, a Commissioner at Lahore, and a member of the Supreme Council. (Hear ) The next name that I have to introduce to the notice of the house is that of Mr. Dorin, the senior member of council at Calcutta, and formerly Financial Secretary. The first name represents the service of the Upper Provinces, and the other the civil service of Bengal. We propose that the civil service of Malrasshall be represented by Sir H. Mont ee eery, who was formerly in the revenue and judicial ser vice of that presidency, afterwards secret ry to the Go vernment, and, lastly, a member of council, (Hear.) The Bombay Civil Service, we propose, shall be represented. by Mr. Pringle, who succeeded Sir Charles Napier as Go vernor of Scinde. He had before held hi eh office under the Bombay Government. As what I may call the diplomatic representative we propose Sir Claude Wade. He has held high p litical appointments, and his name is well known iu connection it it's Affghaeistan. (Herr.) He held a poli tical appointment at Peshewur in the Affghau war, he forced the Khyber Pass, he was political agent in Central India, and was Resident at Lahore. I have cow mentioned the names of the four gentlemen whom we propose to re present what may be called the civil services of the four presidencies of India, and also the name of the prop )sed representative of the diplomatic service. Her Majesty's army in Ladla we pro, oee shall be represented in council by Lieut.-Gen. Sir J. Pennefether, now commanding at Malta, and who was in the Crimea, and by Cul. Burltoe, Commissary-General in the Bengal Army, who was also in the Crimea. We propose that Sir R. Vivian, formerly Adjutant-General at Madras, who since then has served in the Crimea, and is new a director of the East India Com pany, should represent that branch of the service in the council. The name of the gentleman to represent the Bom bay army is not before me. Having thus gone over the ! names of the first nine members of the proposed council as far as they are decided upon, I will now locution the names we propose to place in the bill whose successors will be ap pointed, should this measure become low, by what I have termed the Indian constituency. The first of those names is that of the present chairman of the Board of Directors of the East India Company— the hon. member for Guild ford and I trust from what I hear that that hon. gentle man will be induced to undertake the office. (Hear, hear.) his eminent talents, o f the C w o h n ic s h ide w r a in a g ra h a i i s l whiigtuhespseoss,itaionud fact of his having , oc cupied the chair of the Board of Directors during exigen cies so severe as we have lately seen, I cannot but believe that this is a selection which Parliament will sanction and which the country will approve. The next name which we propose is that of Capt. Sheppard—(!sear) — who is well known as one of the most valuable directors ever elected under the old form of government. ( Hear.) The next name which I hey i to submit to the house is that of a gentleman of greet ability, with whom we are well acquainted, as he had longue seat among us—Sir J. Hogg. (Some murmurs, and laughter.) I have no political connection with Sir J. Hoge, as ha has always been opposed to the party with which I am, but the ready talents and great knowledge with which he has on every occasion advocated the inte rests of the East India Company I should have thought would have secured for him the respect of all. At all events he has been selected, after the gravest deliberation, with no other object but that of securing a most valuable member for the new Couecil. (Hear, hear.) Tire next name which I have to propose is that of a gentleman for merly Foreign Secretary in Bengal and member of Coun cil, who is quitejiunrivalled,a believe, for his general knowledge of Indian subjects--Mr.Prinsep. (Hear, hear.) It, now becomes my duty to detail to the house the form of procedure and the general duties which we propose this council should follow and fulfil. We propose that the Minister for India should have power to divide the Council in committees ; that he should arrange i .,, k i e. i e o e ,:t committees and exercise over them a general super swbeezzrvi se:ezpeoLertihnatthiat to a ho c u a l i d l b a e m in e t e h ti e n i g m a w f er co o u f n t c h i e l , \ a tiaiwka it requisite, but that it shall also be in , the power of any six members of council to call a meeting of the council if they signify their wish and intention in writing to one of the secretaries. We propose that when the council differs in opinion, if it is presided over by the Secretary of State his opinion shall, of course, be conclu sive ; but that in that case he should express his opinion in writing, and the reasons which have induced him to come to that opinion ; and that privilege will also belong to every member of the council. (Hear, hoar.) If the coun cil be presided over by the Vice - President, in the absence of the Secretary of State, the majority of the votes will decide the question, the Vice-President having a casting vote ; but in that case the decision of the council must re ceive the sanction of the Secretary of State for India. I do not know that it will be necessary for me on this occa sion to enter into auy details on this head of the subject ; all that the house requires is to have the leading features laid before it. ( !fear, hear.) Having, therefore, entered fully into the composition of the council, having shown that a Minister with such a council would be surrounded by men who can on all subjects which may come before them for deliberation bring to his assistance the greatest amount of information and intelligence, having shown that we have taken precautions that the council shall be inde pendent—(hear, hear)-- that it shall be animated by public spirit, and that it bring English opinion to act upon Indian experience—(hear, hear)—the house will now very naturally wish that I should touch upon the other point which next to the construction of the council excited most interest in the recent debates, and respecting which the country is most anxious— I mean the distribution of pa tronage. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL—For how long are the members of council to be elected ? _ _ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—In the beginning the period of retirement will be at the end of the first two, four, and six years, but the permanent term of tenure will be six years. Mr. J. B. SMITH I WiII they be re-eligible? Tee CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER--They will be re-eligible ; they will not be competent to sit in Par liament, and the salary will be 1,000/. per annum, paid out of the Indian revenue. Upon the subject of patronage I shall not have to trouble the house at any length, because the result of the arrangement which we propose will really, generally speaking, not at all alter the present system of distribution. Her Majesty will do directly that which she does now indirectly. She will appoint the Governor-Gene ral the fourth member of council, the governors of presi dencies, the Judge-Advocate General, and so on. The civil service will be elected in the first instance under those regulations which at present prevail, and which have been found to work so satisfactorily. Tho military patronage, the naval and military cadetships, will be distributed among the council, as they have hitherto among the Court of Directors. The only change will be a formal change which the transfer of all authority to the Queen renders necessary, but virtually the patronage which is now exer cised by the East India Company will be exercised in the same way , by the Council of India. There only remain two points of groat importance on which it is necessary that I should touch—one is the army, and the other is the fines. of India. With regard to the at my, we propose to make no change at present, except that which necessarily results from the present scope of the bill. There will be two armies iu India ; besides the Queen's forces from this country there will be her Majesty's military and naval forces in India. But we have included in the bill clauses which authorise and will facilitate any changes in regard to the military forces of India which circumstances may ultimately show to be necessary. The only o her point upon which I have to trouble the house is that of finance. Wo have taken care in this bill to introduce all those pro visions which, so far as provisions in an Act of Parliament can effect the object, will fix upon the revenue of India alone the expenses of the Government of India. (Hear.) We have also, of course, included in the bill a clause which will insure that the accounts of the Indian Govern ment shall be laid annually before Parliament, and we have endeavoured to establish a sufficieet and satisfactory audit of Indian accounts in this country. (Hear, hear.) But, having done all this, I am bound to say that the re lations between English and Indian finance remain to me a sourceof great apprehension and anxiety. (Hear, hoar.) I feel that the time has arrived when this house must give to the sul•sject its most serious and attentive consideration. (Hear.) I admit and I accept all those principles and opi nions which have been laid down and expressed in this house as to theclaar difference which exists between Indian a;e re d so E of ng t l e i ni English revenue, rev u e e n e u d e f , o l r i ur u o tl cannot conceal from myself that the parallel i ns t ances of Canada and Australia which guidance do not apply with that comeletenese which I could desire to the state of India. (Hear, hear.) There aro circumstances in India, with a vast territory, and people of different races num bering 180,000,000, which in my mind make a marked difference between the condition of that great peninsula and our native colonies. (Hear, hear.) I accept the for mal defence of th e fi nances of this country which many honourable gentlemen have set up, and which techni cally and truly to a certain extent may be relied upoe. But to my mind that defence is not all-sufficient, and a great responsibility will devolve upon the Ministers and upon the Parliament of England if they allow the state of Indian finance to remain in the obscurity in which it has too long been involved. (Hear, hear.) Able as has ever been the administratio n of India, considerable and distinguished as have been the men whom that administration has pro duce 1, and numerous as have been the great captains, the clever diplomatist s , an d th e a bl e a d m i n i strators of large districts with whom the Indian Government has abounded, the state of the finances has always been involved in per plexity, and India, that has produced so many great men, seems never to have produced a Chancellor of the Ex chequer. (A. laugh.) But, sir, it is impossible for us to shut our eyes to what must be, or rather may be, the ultimate consequences to the finances of England of such changes as we are now proposing, and as were proposed by the noble lord the member for Tiverton, in the Government of India. Therefore, if the house shall pass this bill into a law, it will be our duty to recommend her Majesty to authorise a Royal commission to visit India to ascertain what is the real financial condition of that country • to examine into its finance iu all its f orms , i n t o the mode of keeping the public accounts, into the collection, receipt, and application of the public revenue, and into the system of contracting debt, and to report gene, ally upon the subject, so that 'e • may at last el-arly understand the condit on of its finances ant the r.olation in which we stand to them, and ,nav not only - prepare for the injurious consequences which, if we are negligent, may accrue to our own financial condition, but may, by timely an d v i gorous i n t erpos i t i on, avert t h em. I We are of opinion that this is a matter cf such paramount importance that we have inserted in this bill a clause providing that immediately after the act is Passed a Royal commission shall repair to India to investigate and re port upon the financial condition of the country ; so that, if our policy is approved, it shall receive the sanction of Parliament as well as that of the Crown, and that the commissioners may go out with such authority as may ouable them to produce the beneficial result which we anticipate from an interference which, iu our opinion, can no longer be delayed. I have now, sir, given the house, I hope, a clear—(cheers)—account of the principal features of the bill which we are now asking leave to in troduce. There are, of course, many details upon which I have not touche I, and upon which it would be weari some to dwell at this stage ; but I have endeavoured to put the house in possession of the chief provisions which this bill contains. It contains a plan—the first which has ever been submitted to Parliament--for establishing a Council for India, which shall be distinguished for its knowledge, for its especial information, for its high cha racter, an I. for its comp'ete independence. (Cheers.) We have endeavoured to form a plan which should not, in the chauges which are inevitable, take the patronage away from the East India Comp my only to place it in the hands of the Crown. (dear.) We have directed our minds to these two objects of pressing and immediate interest, but WO have not forgotten an object not less important--an object without which no form of government can flourish, no patronage can long be valuable —we have nut forgotten that it was our duty to provide for future financial secu rity, and to lay the foundation in India of that which is the only basis of public welfare —a sound state of public wealth. (Hear.) I hope, therefore, that the house will allow her Majesty's Ministers to introduce this bill. (Cheers.) I have asked leave to bring it in to-night—pro bably on the eve of our separation—because I wish that the house and the country should have a full opportunity , of °shining and steilying its provisions. (Hear.) Believ ing that them provisions are calcul a t e d t o promo t e th e welfare of the empire, that they will lead to the renova tion of India, that if they aro adopted we shall establish in this country a government for India, so far as that coun try can be governed here, which will be distinguished for its aptitude and adapted to every contingency which may occur, I with confidence place in the hands of the Speaker the motion of which I h ave g i ve , notice and ask the permission of the house to introduce' this bill for transferring the government of India from the East ludia Company to her Majesty. (The right hon. gentleman resumed his seat amid cheers from both sides of the house.) Tho question having been put from the chair, " That leave be given to bring in a bill to transfer the government of India from the East India Company to the Queen." Mr. ELLIOT asked how the members of the councils of the presideucies were to be appointed ? The CUA.NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—We do not propose to interfere with any powers which aro at pre sent possessed by the Governor-General, or are exercised in India, and therefore there will be no change in the mode of appointing these members of Council. Mr. It. P. NISBET asked whether compensation was to be given to those members of the Court of Directors who might not be made members of the Indian Council? (A. laugh.) Lord PALMEInTON—I only have to say that I give my cordial assent to the motions, fur leave to introuuce this bill. At the same time, I hope that the right hon. gentleman and the house will understand that I reserve any opinion which consideration may lead me to entertain as to the details of the measure. ( Hear.) I presume that the right lion. gentleman will bring the bill in this evening, so that it may 'be in the hands of members and of the pub lic during the recess. I wish it to be uuderst tud that, while concurring in the motion, I do not give any opinion upon the various details of the measure. (Hear, heat ) Mr. GILPIN had no objection to the introduction of the bill which the right pun. gentleman had so well and so ably explained—(hoar, hear)---but he must suggest to the right hon. gentlemen that while he provided for the re presentation of the Indian services, and to a certain extent of the Indian princes, lie hail omitted to give a representa tion to the millions of Indium who were not princes, but whose happiness was deeply involved in the arrangement which might be made for the government of the country, (Cries of " Oh, oh," and interruption.) He did not claim for himself any greater anxiety for the welfare of the na tives of India than was entertained by the authors of this bill; but he hoped that when the house proceeded to its consideration it would be remembered that our business in India, if we heel any business there, was to govern that country for its o wn benefit, rather than for the benefit of England. (Hear ) Mr. MANGLES said that, before ho addressed to the house the few remarks which, in the position which he oc cupied, he felt it his duty to offer, he must express to the right hen. geetleinan the Chancellor of the Exchequer his certlial acknowledgment of the terms—worthy of the great body of which he (Slr. M angles) was the himili!e represen tative and of Idieself—in which he hal spoken of the past services rendered to their country by the East India Com pany. (Hear, bear.) He was persuaded! that after tem porary feelings and jealousies should have passed away it would be universally acknowledged that the East India. Company had deserved well of their country, and that whenever their powers and functions might expire they wend l leave to Eagland a noble legacy. (Hear.) As the representative of that great corporation, and as believing that the Government of India had been on the whole a good an 1 beneficial one, it would be his duty to oppose the introduction of any bill intended to take from the Company a power rt hich had been so well exercised. But ho was bound to state, at the same time, that if it should be the will of Parliament to deprive the Company of its functions ho and his colleagues would be prepared, in the fultihnent of their duty to the people both of England and of India, to give their most cot dial assistance in rendering the now system of government as good and as efficient as possible. (Hear, hear.) The C ompany o f course received to itself 1 the fullest liberty of canvassing the provisions of the bill about to be introduced, and of endeavouring to have them altered, if such might be considered necessary in commit tee. (Hear.) Mr. WHAT remarked that the bill shadowed forth by the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed to present a very favourable contrast to the measure introduced by the late Government. There were ingredients in it which he recog nized with much satisfaction, and which he was sure would command the approval of the class to which he had the honour to belong. (Hear, hear.) At the same time he was doubtful whether the Council for Indian Affairs, as proposed to be constituted, would work as satisfactorily as the Chan cellor of the Exchequer appeared to anticipate. In the English constitution a combination of aristocratic and de mocratic elements was productive of good results, because of the existence of separate chambers ; but it yet remained to be proved whether the same advantages would result from an amalgamation in one body of the two kinds of in fluence. He could not resist expressing his hearty approval of the concluding remarks of the Chancellor of the Exche quer, but he should have beon more satisfied if the right hon. gentleman bad said something with regard to the cre ditors of the E a-, India Company. The third clause of the late Government Bill transferred the property of the Com pany, amounting to about 30,000,0001., to the Crown, but it did not propose that the Crown should become respon sible for the Indian debt. He trusted that the bill about to be introduced would be more satisfactory in that re pact. (Hear, hear.) He regretted th a t some considera tion had not been given to the claims of the natives of India. The time had not yet arrived for the in troduction of representative institutions into India; but he thought that one or two of the members of the Supreme Council in Calcutta might be chosen by the Governor- General trom the Hindoo and Mahomedan classes. (Hear.) Sir E. PERRYsaid there appeared to be two main points of difference between the present bill and that of the late Government—viz., the enlargement of the Council from 8 to 18, and the introduction of the elective principle as regarded one-half the members. Now, as during the recess they would hare to consider the comparative merits of the two propositions, whether the Co unc il s h ou ld cons i s t o f eight or 18 members, it was desirable the house should know what the functions of the Council were to be. Was the Council to take an active part in the conduct of Indian business, or was it to be merely a reviewing body, called together on certain days to express an opinion upon the proceedings of other parties ? If it were intended that the members should be mere nonentities, with no real share in the Government of India, probably 18 would be a very good number, bat if the Council was to be an active body it ought to consist of fewer members. He wished to know, therefore, what functions it was expected to perform ? He might also be permitted to inquire whether the members were to devote their whole time and attention to the busi ness committed to them ? It appeared to him that in the construction of the bill too much attention had been paid to class interests. The restrictions placed upon the ap pointments of the Council would have the effect of exclud ing some of the ablest men in India. The principle ought to be to represent the different interests in India connected, with the revenue, the judicial, civil, and military'depart ments. He felt bound to pay his tribute of admiration to the right hoc: gentlemiin for the speech he had just made, and particularly for the concluding observations. It seemed that grave attention was about to be paid to the finances of India. He had on former occasions called attention to the dilapidated state of those finances, and now that Government was to take up the matter he fit that nothing but good could result One beneficial effect of the recent change of government was that now both the parties in that house were occupied in framing a better government for India than that country had hitherto had. (Hear t hoar.) Mr. BLACK said that, as the membsrsof council for the great towns were to be elected by the Parliamentary elec tors, the consequet,ce would be that in respect to such a town as Glasgow, for iustance, the 18,00 J registered elec tors there would probably have nothing ‘ to do either with commerce or manufactures connected with India. More over, he thought that the eapital of Scotland ought not to have been omitted in the list of those towns—(laughter)-- for, though Edinburgh did not export cotton or broadcloth to India, it exported men. No town in the kingdom sent so great a number of men to India as Edinburgh. Mr. VANCE rose and, amid general laughter, claimed, in consequence of the observations of the hon. member for Edinburgh, a representative in the council for Dublin. Mr. WYSE inquired whether the Council was to sit in Leadenhall-street or Cannon-row ? Colonel SYKES begged to be understood as reserving to himself on the second reading of the measure full liberty to repeat the objections he had on a former occasion urged to the introduction of any bill whatever. The proposal of the right hon. gentleman comprehended so many complex arrangements that he thought they must be reduced to greater simplicity to be carried out at all. The Chancellor of the Exchequer bad observed that it was of the greatest importance to send out a commission to India to inquire into the state of the finances. Why, if the right hon. gentle man sent to the India-house he might have any account with respect to the finances of India he pleased, to the lowest figure; but the effect of this roving commission wAtld paralyze the Government of India, for people there would regard it as being sent out to spy into their actions and destroy their power. He would ask whether it was intended that the patronage of the whole Indian Army of 300,000 men was to be lodged in the hands of the Horse Guards!? Mr. 00X said that in consequence of the recent change of Ministry they were likely now to have a much more liberal scheme of government for India. He was pleased to hear that four members of the council were to be elected by four great towns, and that the electors were to be Par liamentary voters. Now, seeing that the Directors of the East India Company wera elected by ballot, he wanted to know whether the right hon. gentleman would object to the use of the ballot in the election of those members of • )uncil. (Cheers and laughter.) The right hon. gentleman had adverted to the civil patronage of India and had stated how it was to be distributed, but he had not mentioned whether or not the whole patronage of the army in India was to be handed over to the Horse Guards. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said he had been asked what were to be the duties of the council, and he had to observe in reply that the duties of the council were to be the transactions of all business connects -.l with the government of India that could be transacted in Eng land. They will have the entire transaction of that busi nese, and from the details laid before him ha thought that it would require that which would 113 exacted from the members of council—the total devotion of their time. No gentleman would be a member of the council who was an active member of a profession, or engaged directly or indi rectly in trade or commerce. Of course, with respect to those members who were elected, that rule could not ap ply, and it was desirable that the council should contain some persons who were familiarly acquainted with the commerce and trade of the country. With respect to the qualifications for members of the council in consequence of residence in India, that applied to all the dominions under the authority of the Governor-Gone:al ; and therefore the Punjaub and Scinde were included. to had been asked whether the council was to sit and transact business in Cannon-row. The hon. member who made that inquiry was lot so familiar as himself with the quantity of busi ness that must be transacted and the space required for its transaction. He could assure the hon. gentleman that the ,building in Cannon-row would not be able to hold the council. Where, ultimately, the members of council might be collected together it was not for him to say. No doubt they would be able to place themselves in some con venient locality; but for the present the council must trans act its business in Leadenhall street. Some hon. gentlemen seemed to think that under the bill the whole military pa tronage of India would b 3 handed over to the Horse Guards. Certainly, he must have conyeyed his meaning. in very,am biguous phraseology if he were misunderstood on that point, but he thought he had clearly stated that the patro nage of the military establishment, added to the cadet ships, was to be distributed among the Council, and by them distributed among the people in the same way as was now done by the Board o f Di rec tors. An hon. mem ber had suggested that the members of the Council should be elected by ballot. As the noble lord opposite said with regard to the Lord-Lieutenancy of Ireland, that when the whole of Ireland concurred to put an end to it the House of Commons might agree to its abolition, so he (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) said that when the whole of this country should be unanimous for the adoption of the vote by ballot the Government would then give the hon. mem ber's suggestion the graveet cunsidtration. (Hear, hoar, and laughter) Mr. V. SMITH said that the right hon. gentleman had stated that the President of the Council, or Secretary of State for India, as he was to be called, might summon the Council together whanever he pleased, but ho wanted to know whether it was to b 3 compulsory for that functionary to call a meeting of the Council. He also wished to ask whether the Vice-President of the Council was to be a po litical officer and a -member of Parliament, who would re tire from office along With the Minister who was Prot ilent of the Council for India? He wished further to put a ques tion to the right hon. gentleman with regard to the func tions of the secret committee. Under the existing system the President of the Board of Control might send orders relating to peace or war, and to negoti a ti ons or t reat i es with foreign States, through the secret committee, but that committee was a mere mane. It was, in fact, the Presi dent of the Board of C , ntrol. The members of the secret committee were bound by oath not to divulge any thing communicated to them by the President as to proceedings to be adopted in India, but they could not object to or re monstrate against any decision of the President. He (Ur. V. Smith) wished to know whether it was intended that the Secretary of State for India should a3t by himself upon such questions as he had mentioned, or whether it would be necessary for him to consult the whole Council of 18 members? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, who spoke in so low a tone as to be very itd.stinetly heard in the gallery, was understood to say that it would not be com pulsory upon the Secretary of State to consult the Coun cil. It had not been considered desirable to fix any time for the meetings of the Council, and he thought hat, under the provisions of this bill, the action of the Indian Coun cil would be very similar to that of the Cabinet. The Council might be divided in committees for the transac tion of various descriptions of business. Councils might be held three or four times a-week if it were thought neces sary, but it might not be requisite that they should meet so frequently. It had not boon deemed advisable to pro vide for any compulsory meetings of the Council, and the Secretary of State would be entirely free to exercise his discretion on the subject. The bill would, however, pro vide that a meeting might be called at any time upon the requisition of six members of the Council. (Hear, hear. ) He might state, also, that six members would constitute a quorum. The Vice-President of the Council was not to be a political officer, and could not sit in Parliament. There would be no difference between the Vice-President and the other members of the Council beyond his appointment as Vice-President, which would entitle him to preside in the absence of the Secretary of state, but he would not receive a higher salary than his colleagues. The bill provided for the appointment of a secret committee, in deference to the precedent set in every act for the government of India since the time of Mr. Pitt, and from the conviction of her Ma jesty's Government that it was better to adopt that plan than to leave the Secretary of State free to act without concerting with his Council. Hon. gentlemen would, how ever, have an opportunity of considering all the details of the bill during the recesi._ (Hear, and a lough ) After a few words from Mr. CIIEETIIAII and Mr. HORS MAN, Sir T. COLEBROOKE inquired whether the President of the new Council would have the entire control of Indian finance both in India and in 'his country, and whet► er he would be empowered on his soh authority to overrule any opinion that might be given by the Council. The provision) of the measure appeared to be so complicated that he would not venture to express any opinion upon it until he had had an opportunity of considering its details. He un derstood from the right hon. gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that it was intended to maintain the army in India in its present state, but to give certain powers to the President and Council with regard to its future regula tion. Re Colebrooke) strongly objected to commit such powers to a single branch of the Administration with. out the concurrence or Parliament.• Our present army iu India comprised a considerable European force, which had been enlisted for local service in that country, and, as he understood the right hon. gentleman, the powers confer red by this bill would enable the President and Council to increase the national army without the consent of Par liament. He hoped the right hon. gentleman would re consider the provisions of the measure relating to this sub- Mr. SLANEY thought this bill had been framed in a most liberal spirit; and he congratulated her Majesty's Government upon their proposal to give a voice in the government of India to the constituencies of large towns in this kingdom, which were especially interested in the Indian trade. Lord J. RUSSELL said the question before the house was one of immense importance, and he would not at this moment venture to express any opinion as to the scheme propounded by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. It was evident that much labour and thought had been bestowed upon the subject by her Majesty's Government, but be deemed it essential that ample time should be affor ed for considering this bill, and he presumed that it would not be brought forward immediately on the reassembling of the house after the recess. Mr. ROEBUCK, admitting that party feeling ought not to influence members of that house in dealing with a ques tion of this nature, must say that he did not think this bill would attain the object which the right hon. gentle man who introduced it professed to have in view. He (Mr. Roebuck) understood the main objection to the pre sent government of India to be that it was a double govern ment, but that the President of the Board of Control was the real Governor of India; while by the system which existed he was enabled to act under the shadow of the Court of Directors in his own name and in theirs. The right hon. gentleman proposed that the real Governor of India should be a Secretary of State for India, and that he should be assisted by a Council of 18 members, chosen partly by the Crown and partly by election, thereby giving the colour of popular support to the really despotic prin ciple of the government to be established. He (Mr. Roe buck) held that, from beginning to end, the proposal was.a great sham. (Laughter.) Hon gentlemen might laugh, but the result would show whether he was right or not; and he was quite prepared to maintain that the present system of Indian government was a great deal better than that which the right hon. gentleman proposed to establish. Mr. BRIGHT observed that this bill had been intro duced that evening in order that hod. gentlemen might have the opportunity of giving it a fortnight's consideration during the recess. Hehoped that even a longer time might be afforded before the bill was pressed upon the attention of the house, but he trusted the right hon. gentleman and his colleagues would during the recess reconsider some of the details of the measure. He (Mr. Bright) had been a great opponent of the East India Company for the last eight or 10 years, both in and out of Parliament, but he did not regret a single word he had ever spoken with regard to that Company ; how could he, unless, indeed, he found that he had -ever said a word in its favour? ( A laugh.) He was opposed to that government, not because he thought that the hon. member for Guildford or the other gentle men who formed the Court of Directors were disposed to do what was wrong—on the contrary, he believed that they were disposed to do what was right ; but because there appeared to be a total want of responsibility. (Hear.) Nothing could ever be traced, and it was impossible to lay hands upon those criminals who ha l committed those great crimes which it was universally admitted throughout the country had been committed against the population of India. It 'was proposed now to change the government of India, and there were two propositions before the house for that purpose, and as far as regarded the question of re sponsibility alone, without pledging himself to any Anal opinion,.he doubted whether, upon the whole, the propo sition of the noble lord the member for Tiverton was not better than that of the right hon. gentleman. He spoke with regard to the question of responsibility alone, and he thought that the President would be more rest onsible with a council of eight than with a council of 18. (Hear.) He did not attach much importance to the theory which had been advanced with regard to the popular election of the members of the Council. The judges of the laud were not elected by the constituencies of the United Kingdom but yet they are unusually and properly looked upon as being independent of the Crown and of Parliament; and he thought that members of the Council not chosen by election would perform their duties just as well as those who might be elected by old Indians, or by Manchester manufacturers, or merchants who some time in their lives had exported goods to India. (A. laugh.) He was afraid that the proposition that four orfive large constituencies should elect those councillors savoured of what was generally called clap-trap. (A. laugh.) He was not speaking with any feeling of hostility to the present occupants of the Treasury bench—(hear, hear) —on the contrary, if a change in the present Government involved the return to office of their predecessors no man in that house could be more de sirous of keeping them in the position which they now occupied. (Hear, hear.) The subject, however, was one f.r beyond the consideration as to which side of the house the noble lord the member for Tiverton should sit upon. (Hear.) It was the business of the house, irrespective of all such considerations to provide the best possible govern ment for India that it could. lie had iu private conver sations warned some of the occupants of the Treasury bench against some of the errors into which it was possible 'they might fall, and he could not be supposed to bb making the present observations in any feeling of hostility to them. His only object was to endeavour to press upon the Go vernment during the recess of reconsidering some of the provisions of the bill with all that care and attention which he hoped would be bestowed upon the subject by every member of that house. (Hear, hear.) He hoped that the result of that consideration would be a measure founded upon broad, general, and simple principles, for there was 133 scheme so foolish as a complicated scheme which, by various ramifications, tended to catch somebody here and somebody there, or indirectly to grapple on the one side and with something else on the other. He trusted when they met again after the recess that, without any party spirit, the house would enter calmly and seriously into the question of eat iblishing for India the best possible form of government. (Hear, hear.) Sir H. VERNEY denied that India had been misgoverned. Both the noble cord the member for Tiverton a d the right hon. gentleman opposite had paid a high tribute to the efficiency and ability of the public servants o, India, and he was convinced that no government which had ever existed had produced more able or more illustrious men. After some remarks from Nr. THORNLEY which did not reach the gallery. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that many of the questions which had been addressed to him would be more appropriately answered at a future stage of the Bill. There was one, however, which perhaps he ought to notice, which was whether those members of the Council elected by the great towns would be expected to serve. To that he could reply that certainly they would, and to devote their time and energy to the duties of the omce. With regard to the , question of the noble lord the member for London, ho proposed to take the second reading of the Bill on Friday, the 16th of April _ _ Lord J : RUSSELL suggested that it would be better to postpone it unql Monday. the 19th of April. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed to the suggestion, and the second reading of the Bill was fixed for that day. _ _ Leave, was then given to introduce the Bill, and it was subsequently brought in and read a first time. LOAN SOCIETIES. Mr. HARDY obtained leave to bring in a bill to repeal the Act of the 20th and 21st . ears of her Majesty, chap 41, and to continue the Act of the 3d and 4th years of her Majesty, chap. 110, to amend the lows relating to loan societies. The 13111 was brought in and read a first time, CONSULAR SERVICE On the motion of Mr. S. FITZGERALD, the following gentle men were nominated to serve on the Select Cora ittee on Consular Service and Appointments : Kr. S. Fitageraid, Mr. Milues, Viscount Palmerston, Mr. Henley, Mr Horsfall, Mr. Wilson, Mr. Witte, Mr. Btamley Moore, Mr. Kinnaird, Sir John Walsh, Mr. Lindsay, Lord C. Hamilton, Lord Robert Cecil, Mr. Gregory, and Sir Minto Farq•thar ; power to send for persons, papers, and records ; five to be the quorum. REGIMENTAL BANDS. General CODRINGTON moved for a copy of the War-office Letter of the 12th day of October, 1857, declining to sanc tion the recommendation of the General Commanding-in- Chief, on the subject of reg mental bands.—Ag eed to. ' The SOLICITOR-GENERAL move i for certain returns connected with expenditure, &c., of the Court of Bank ruptcy. THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVEN:fING, [ MARCH Q/, 18N8. EAST INDIES. Mr. WILSON moved for copies of a despatch from the Governor-General of India, dated the 25th day of November, 1842, and of the reports of Mr. Bird and Mr.. Robertson, upon the Settlement of the North-West Provinces inclosed therein ; also of the despatcit of the court of directors, dated tho 13th day of August, 1851, in reply thereto.— Agreed to. TRANSPORT DEPARTMENT, SOMERSET HOUSE . Mr LINDSAY called the attention of the•Pirst Lord of the Admiralty to certain rules laid down by the Admira ty f r the guidance of pasties having business to transact at the Trans port Departm,nt, Somerset-house. Persons were obliged to communicate with the department bymeans of writing. Such a thing was wholly unusual, and was not adopted iu any other offices of business. Sir J. PAKINGTON admitted that the regulation co n plained of had produced no little inconvenience, but he was not aware of it until he saw the notice given on the subject by the right hon. gentleman. The rules were the result of the indiscriminate way. in which, during the war, persons were admitted into the clerks' rooms in the transport depart ment, which led to great inconvenience. While he would make certain alterations iu the rules objected, he could not consent to au indiscriminate admission of persons into the clerks' rooms as to do so would be to perpetuate the incon venience which had been previously felt. There was another regulation in connexion with theaccountant.general's d part meat which had worked well, and would be continued. If the hod. gentleman would communicate privately with him, he would be glad to make such an arrangement as would get rid of the objection to which he had referred. THE CANAL ACROSS THE ISTHMUS OF SUEZ Mr. GRIFFITH :slieiltl;6laiTeeilor of the Exchequer, whether, in consideration of the possible facilities of com munication with our . ossessions i the East, and also of the desire manifested for the exectition of that scheme by many continental nations, it is expedient, in the opinion of her Majesty's Government, to offer opposition to the project of a ship canal across the Isthmus of Suez ? He •did not a k from the Government to assist this un ertaking. All he desired was, that they should not object to it. If this undertaking was carried out, they could go to India in two thirds pr half the time that they could do so now, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he regretted that this question was asked on an occasi in when it was im possible to do justice to it. (Hear.) Had the subject been brought forward on a Wednesday morning it might have been fully discussed and then, if necessary, adjourned. IA laugh.) The question was of importance, and it had twolspects---a scientific and a political aspect. With regard to the scien tific aspect, ho regretted the hon, member f r Whitby (Mr. Stephenson) was not in the house, but with regard to this canal, from the evidence before him, it appeared to be a most . futile idea. It would involved a large exi enditure of money, and, after all, should the canal be made, the operations of nature would shortly render it useless for the objects contem plated, (Hear ). With regard to the political aspect of the question, and whether it was the intention of the Govern ment to oppose .all commercial operations in which political motives might become involved, he could only say, as a gene ral principl9, that he hoped never to oppose any commercial scheme which was at all likely to be beneficial to the wcr:d, nut really the political considerations connected with this contemplated . project were so vague that nothing could be said than that they had no evidence that it should be the policy of the country to oppose any such undertaking. When ho (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had evidence before him that the scheme was practicable, it would be time enough to think about the political aspect of the question; but when the evidence before him showed that it was impracticable he con d only say that, at the utmost, they had not arrived at the ultimate and ulterior point to which the hon, gentleman referred. ADJOURNMENT OF HIE HOUSE, The motion for the adjournment of the house to Monday, no 12th April, was then agraed to. DIPLOMATIC SALARIES AND PENSIONS. Mr, WISE gave notice that on the 22d of April he Bkould move that diplomatic salaries and pensions, now charged upon the Consolidated Fund, be brought more immediately under the control of the house, and be aid out of a vote annually provided and appropriated by Par iament fur that purpose. Mr. W. WILLIAMS gave notice that on the 22d April he would move a resolution that real property, Ike., should pay the same property duty as personal property, dre. Sir J. TRELAWNY gave notice that after Easter he should move that the receipt of money by any member of the house in his legislative capacity was calculated to lower the dignity of this house, and was a high breach of the privilege of the house. MAYNOOTH GRANT. Mr. SPOONER gave notice that on the 20th April he should move that the house go into committee to consider the acts relating to the endowment of M , ynooth. (Cheers and laughter ) Captain ViVIAN gave notice that on the 22d of Aptil be should move that the duties of the Commander-in-Chid and those of the Secretary of War be more clearly defined, and move resolutions on the subject. The house then adjourned at half-past eight o'clock. Country filancets LIVERPOOL, MARCH 26. Our market this morning was poorly attended, and in the absence of business both wheat and flour must be quoted as nominally unchanged in value. Barley and beans dull. Peas a shade lower. Oats and oatmeal quiet. Indian corn was in limited request, at about former rates. We quote Black Sea and old mixed Atueri... can 34s 6d to 34 9d, but new yellow and mixed American can be bought at 33s 9d to 34s ; white offered at 33s 6d to 31s per 480 lbs. WAKEFIELD-MARCH 26. There was but a very moderate trade to-day in wheat, at a decline of le to 2s per qr. on the prices of last mar• ket day. The lower grades were neglecte I, and unsaleable. Fine barley firm. Beans and shelling met a slow sale. AVIRAGSB roa THR WEER ENDING MARCH 22. 1b56. Wheat 3813 quarters, at 44s lid Barley 519 ~ 378 3d Oats 57 ~ 27s 81d Beans Peas — ~ —0 0,1 EXETER—HARD a 26. CORN.—Wheat, 5s 9d to 6s ; barley, 4s 3d to 4a 6d ; grinding do., OE Od to Os Od. Oats, " 2s 6d to 2s 9d Beans, Os Od to 0 Od. Peas, 00s Od to 00s Od. FLOUB.—Fine, 33s Od to 34s Od ; seconds, 31s Od i o 32s Od per sack. ' CATTLE.—There was a small supply of bullocks. Best beef, from 9s Od to lOs 6d per score ; inferior, 7s to 8s per score; fat calves; 53d to 6d per lb barrenners, Os Od to Os Od. per score ; cows an d ca l ve ., 121. to 181, vs ; butchers' calves, Od to 7d per lb., rearing calves —s to s eac sheep, ewes and lambs, 21. 5. to 31. 5a per couple; ewes Od to 64d; wethers, 7d —d ; l am b s, 7 j d to 0 per lb. Pigs, large size, —s to —a; second size, —s to —a ' • slips, —e to —s; suckers, —s to —a. R oug h fat, 44d per lb. Pork carcases from 7a 9d to 8s fid per score. BRISTOL SUGAR—MA.Roa 26. The market continues extremely quiet, and we are with. out any transactions to report this week, either in landed or floating parcels. The offices will, however, be better supplied next week with samples of new Barbadoes and Deineraras, when we expect to find more isposition shown for business. Refined produce is still dell, and again ra ther lower. Rum quiet, for want of a supply. COURSE OF EXCHANGE.-YESTERDAL inst e ret am .. •• 11 15 Gibraltar .. •• •• Ditto, three months . 11 17g Leghorn . Rotterdam ............ 11 17% Genoa Antwerp •••••••• •• • •• 25 35 Allan ••.••••• •• •• •• Brussels ••.•••••.••• •• 25 35 Venice .• •• •• •••• •• Bamburgh •• •• •• •• •• • • 13 6 k •• • ..... •• .• 41 Altona •• .• •• •• •• •• .. • • Palermo .. • Paris •• •• •• • • .•• •••••• 25 15 Messina •• • 125 Do. three months ••25 40 Lisbon .. .... 51% Marseilles • • •••••• .• 25 40 Oporto •••••••••• •• • • •• 51% Bourdeanx ...• ' Rio Janeiro ..... .• • .... Frankfort-on-Maine •118% Buenos Ayres •-• Berlin •• •• .• •• •• •••• •• • • New York,6o days' sign . ; —• Vienna •• •• •• •• • • .;• .• 10 34 'Philadelphia ... •• • triesto.• •••••••• •• • • 10 36 • i PRICES or BULLION. PEE' OBT. Petersburg 35% .Foreign (lola In Bars £3 17 9 Niadrid ••••• .• •• I• • • 493, ' Portugal Gold Can .• 0 0 0 Cadiz ••••••••• •• •• ••• • a 49 Mexican Dollars 0 4 11% Barcelona •• •• •• •• •• • • New Dollars •••• • 0 0 0 Seri.lle•• •• •• •••••• e• Silver nt bars •••• •• 05 1% 29 70 26 60 COAL SIARKA' -MARCH 26. Prices of Coals per ton al the close of the market Wal'sena, A,t; 8. d. Tenfold Moor l3 0 Canfield Moor Butes 13 0 Bebside's Hartley 14 9 Htl'pool West Hartley 13 9 Davison's West Hartley l4 9 Howard's West Hanky Netherton 14 9 Longridge's Wst Hartley 14 9 North Percy Hartley l2 6 Walker Primrose l2 . 6 Bell's Primrose l2 0 Wylain s d. Powell's Duffryn Steam 21 6 detton 14ambton l6 3 .iosforth l3 3 draddyll l5 6 Tees South Hetton 16 3 Riddell .. i 3 3 Barton dussell's Hetton Rollos 15 8 Thorp LI 0 Hartlepool l5 6 Eden Main l4 6 Wsllsend, Sto Haswell l6 C I Keiper Graiage Ships at market, •, 122; sold 86. LOCAL 811ARB MARKET.* LIVERPOOL—Menem 26. STOCK EXCHANGE—The market has been heavy to-day, with very HAW business doing, but firm at the close. Chester and Holyheane, 19 —Birkenheade, 70 to 70§— Berwicke, 23 York and North Midland, 374 f London and North Western, 954 95i—Dovers, 201 21 —Shetheids, 37$ i—Midlands, 96 7—North British, 13A — Great Western 58 9—Lancashire and Yorkshire, 69 4 —Eastern Counties, 11 1 i—Grand Trunk of Canada, 12 A t— Great Western of Canada, 191 i—Caledonians, 441—Dutch Rhenish, 3 A d. —East Lancashire, •88 1-- Leeds Northern, 23i 4. siANCHESTEIt. Mason 26 STOOK EXCHANGE.—There was a quiet business doing to-day, and prices were tending upwards, closing strong. —Midlands, 964 —Trunks, 11,f, —Dowers, 20 I—Londons, 95—Ditto Eighths, f d.—Birkenhead stock, 70—Union Bank, a d.—Sheffields, 38—Leeds, 89 4. BIRMINGUAM, MARCH 26. STOCK EXCHANGE. —This market was very dull to-cloy, and the prices of shares were stationary.. Londons, 95 — Midlands, 94—Birmingham Canals, 92k. - ARMY ESTlMATES.—Yesterday a supplementary esti mate was issued for the years 1858-59. It is proposed to ask the House of Corn moos to vote 25,0001. on amount for the Surreys of the United Kingdom and the Tope raph,cal Department. _ . [AIVERTISF.MENT]. —Holloway's Ointment and Pills w nth-dully efficacious far the cure of bad legs, sores, and wounds even of twenty years standing. The num• bars of cures eff,-eted by these remedies would appear i..credible if they were not vouched for by the patients t.,emsei wee, who grateful for the benefits derived from their use, permit the fact.; to appear before a discern ing public. These remedies if used conjointly will cure old wounds, ulcers, and scrofulous sores, after I 11 other means have proved un,ucceseful. The Pine also prove an admirable remedy,to those offering from debili aced constitutions, as they create an appetite, remove bile, headache and palpitation of the heart.--.S dd by all medicine vendors throughout the world, and at Professor Holloway's Establishment, 244, Strand, L [ADVERTISEMENT.I—TIIO indefatigable researches of Dr. Livingstone have suddenly made us acquainted with one of the happiest people in the world, of whose very existence little was hitherto known in civilised Europe generally. In their ailments they never have recourse to cod liver oil, and they are equally independent of physic and the physician, for Dr. Livingston found their staff of life to be the Revalenta Arabica,Food,which keeps them perfectly free from disease, " consumption, scrofula, cancer, dtc., having been scarcely heard of, and the smallpox and measles have not been known for 20 years." In England also the Revalenta Arabica has pro duced a wonderful improvement in the health of the people, removing cough, consumption, asthma, •ebility, indigestion, (dyspepsia) constipation, nervous, bilious, and liver com plaints, and restoring the faculty of digestion, and nervous muscular energy to the most enfeebled, as proved by testi nionials from the cel:brated Professor of Chemistry Dr. Andrew Tire ; Dr. Shor/and ; Dr. Harvey ; Dr. Campbell; Dr. Gattiker ; Dr. Wurzer ; Dr. Ingram ; Lord Stuart de Decies ; the Dowager Countess of Castlestuart, and 50,000 other well known individuals, whose health has been restored by this useful and economical diet, after all other means of cure had been tried in vain for many years, and all hopes of recovery abandoned. Its effect on the progress of popillatibla is most favourable as exhibited by the Registrar-General,show iug for Loudon an average of 1,780 weekly births against a mortality of 1,200, leaving a happy gain of 580, or nearso per cent. in favour of progress ; a result most cheering to all classes, as it opens a fair prospect that by the more general use of Du Barry's Revalenta Arabica Food the Europeans will soon enjoy the same freed m from disease as the West Africans. It is sold in canisters, 11b., 2s, 9d. ; 21b., 4s 6d. ; 51b., 225. The 121 b. carriage free, on receipt of post-office order. Barry Du Barry and Co., 77, Regent-street ; Fort• num, Mason, and Co. ' 182, Piccadilly; Abbis 60, Graces church - street; 63 and 150, Oxford-street; 330 and 430, Strand, London. • BIRTHS. CLARKE—On the 25th inst., at Esher, the vife of the Re,. Charles Clarke, of a daug, ter. MARENTT—On the 24th inst., at 27, Ladbr.ke-square, Ken singtonpark, Mrs. T. Lechmere Marr ott of a son. OXLEY—On the 26th inst., at Thornton-roa4 Clapham•park, the wife of John Stewart'Oxley, Esq., of a, son, stillborn. MARRIAGES. COLE—PALMER - On tho 25th inst , at St Martins-in-Ow Fields, Henry Edmund Cole, of Waltham-cross, Her' as solicitor to Caroline Walker, second daighter of the late Richard Palmer, of Enfield Highway, Miidiesex. • DORMAN—SWINFORD—On the 25th inst., at Me pari h church, Mist r, Thanet, Charles Dorman, of P.rk-road, Him"' stock-hill, and Essex-street, Strand, sdicitor, to Janie, third daughter of John Swinford, Esq •l a Minater.Abbey. DEATHS. BmsnoPP—On the 21st lust., at Stoke, war Dev"P°24l of disease of the heart, universally and dealt' lamented by alt who knew him, Major General C e eilßisahopp, C. 8., K.C. LI., Colonel of the 16th Regiment, pungi,st and only surviving OM of the late Col. Harry Bsshopp, of Stor. nington. A RBI' —At Lucknow, aged 24 Edmund Daby, M.D.,loth Onde egular Cavalry e t dest son of S:, , lney H. arby, Esq., of Tieuga, Bandorah River, Amtralia. He was wounded by a shed, and died shortly arta. in Nov 1857. Doserron—On the 24th inst., at Twickeuhtm, Mr. Daniel DJEsetor, of Great Russell-street, Coventlardeu, aged 73. RICKETTS—On the'l2th inst., at the Elms, Cieltenhara, Corn' =tide: S. H. Ricketts, R.N., youngett son of the late Admiral Sir Robert Ricketts, Bart. 0:3100N Printed and Published by hitIRDO YOE,rNti of No. 112, Strand, Printer, a t The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the ealinti of laiddlesex, Saturday, lurch 2T, 1868. .44 '4l