The Sun. — London, England, 1829-05-26 00:00:00

incref4ed braz fall in the prices, but, on the contrary, be greatly diminished. Now he would without hesi tinierr say; that such persons spoke in ignorance of thereat ci • rcumstanc es of the case, and contrary to the fact . -- 'llear.)—rit had been said, that the previous reda ctiMirif 'duty- h a d . re d uced . the price of sugar three farthings upound- This had b e en considered. of but little consivience ; he (Mr. Grant) however, wasof ct very.difft ! rent opinion, and viewed even that. reduction as a matter of importance.—(Hear.)—lt Was of importance to . the p oor man, whose means were brit limited, that he. should procure those arti -I;lecwinc It were ahnost..necessaries t o hi m , at t h e '?West possible rate. To the father of a family, who did not increase his means by pounds or shillings, but t t Z. P e nce, it was a subject of importance that even 9Parently trifling saving should be m a d e ,— t i`" e ar.)---Wer e they to forget, that in proportion a reduction took place, the opportunity of pur "asing was afforded to an increased number of per '"B, and , that the. lower classes could buy those artistes, Which before were placed far above their .means ? As things got cheaper, although only in a 'idegree, opportun i ty was a ff or d ed to— i f ' he . L l ht make u•e:of the expression—a low er s t ra t a o f ipeople. ptirchase, and new markets were thus reated.—( great body Hear, hear.)—The objection, that th e theconsii .of. the, people h a d no wish t o i n d u l ge i n it mption of luxuries, wars not true, nor would all a PPIY in this case, He (Mr. Grant) knew that - " m e:Persons object e d, that th e a m oun t o f d u ty in creased on an . article of general consumption, like su g ar, w ith.the:higher rate of duty, and especially as s t,l,ar, could not be smuggled. There was also a htg leion-en th e part o f t h e G overnment aga i nst w` an.Y edueti" ..a the duty, lea it should be attended t h a tlintinution of revenue. But lie ( Mr. Grant) i eontended, that .e ven if t h ere s h ou ld b e a sma ll fall ngaff In the. amount of revenue, the advantages wl liebwouldistillresult would more than counter b...,ai anee that in the . increased comforts of the people. gut the re was,no.reason to expect any such diminu jai! in th e amount of revenue. He hoped that a reeling did notreiist in the H ouse , th a t every thing I, * . as to b e v i ewed merely as a matter of revenue.— ta t state of .our finances w as not so b a d as to lead -the refusal to repeal any tax, however pernicious . I t, might 'be in its operation, because it might affect 1 :k: income of the country. Such a course would Policy' - only be inconsistent with a sound course of s TY, and such as an enlightened Government Quid not .pursue--7-(Hear, hear)—but a line of P,lneeeding which.he was sure his Right Hon. Friend (the „,Chancellor, of the Exchequer) would not follow. d " '..e slaty of Government not to refuse to _ r o e nee a tax . lest•the revenue might be affected, but r onsit ier:Wbether any reduction could be made, at theAisrae time that it could not materially erect the revenue . , would add greatly to the comforts of the p eo ple , r-(llear.)—The Finance Committee ctehe_ammended the reduction of various duties ; „ hild viewed them not merely as matters of re 'entre b ut as they affected the comforts of the great b° l l y n ' f the people.---(Hear, hear.)—This was the Pont . i of view in which both the Government and itai!people would shortly consider their finance clues • He was, however, certain that the reduction Inese duties would not be attended with a per !manent diminution of revenue—(Hear)—but any de slew. be '" indeed, any should take place) would only -fora very short time.—(Hear, hear, hear.) e The Fi nance .Report last year showed that the luc tion.of.duties h a d, i n almost all i nstances, b een attendedd ew_j.withan increased consum p t i on , and parti -ny in, excise articl es ., In the last five years, this treduction had increased the consumption in so great t e gree, that it..had . More than compensated for even tillealunount oteltity, • He had no doubt but that if Ivb .titY on sugar . were -lowered, that the demand in erease.SQ,raiijdfy, that the whole. of the rPc6thlieettiothe.West Indian colonies .Would need .. i n t hi sto.. „,... y. He estimated the quantity W est. L f . _.Sugar -imported into this country at 1111 °Q uir 0 Of cwta.'; the qUantity of sugar from the "tsits,.'at -,200,000 cwts.;. and of - East India pk.-at451)0,900- cwts. ..H e certa i n l y did not think -14 r there woUldte any great increase in the produc tion o f itg r , ,either ,iu the_ West India islands . or `"I 'alattritiosi , But ,eh f. r o .would be a very great t e rease consumption of East India sugar. Le duty,:at present paid on sugars was about ",0061.,,, and which might greatly be increased. Ire-were : very few , persons in this country at pre -ot.wh- did not use sugar, and he thought that not , n , aking a calculation beyond the truth, .„'reen he.assumed -that the average consumption of ',.'agar might be increased t o lilb. per wee k for every ' { a gar of five persons by a reduction of duty. This al ; °at would produce an i ncrease o f 3,500,000 cwts. present consumption. Another subject for ;°/;Lsideration was the distressed situation of the nt India interests. The House had frequently ' re epetitiened, and . called upon by that body to duce Ile duttes on. sugar,., which would so much . h that important interest, and at the same helvas sure, not greatly diminish the revenue. steer, h-ear,)-7.The West India interest was 71: most unj ust l y by t h e p resen t, state of the tli abe markets, which were formerly open the :, , wde of their produce were now closed by _th P ,l tn ianof the law, .111 2 :1 he alluded particularly to laws erican market. Indeed very many Indiaof _the -1 ni ' l4fec ting, the trade With the West Uo 1 4 ° 4 - i" itYPreunjust, impolitic, and absurd. It had t rriY e ar been proposed to .put on an equality the ti l i t ;let3 on East and West India sugar, by reducing elnriter duty, He did not think that this would n P t tIY affect the consumption of that article. He e ti me' same' time could not see why such distin ia s 14 4 . taid :exist. The importation of West Ind , as .. yes•• r amounted to 3,960,000 cwts., and n n ,A l,rtl P,, °nation of, East India sugar to one million; t l C„,Z,Ilie 'Rost of production of the latter was so 4n . '„..,7 :4 48 than the former there would not be 41- reat. a . difference in the amount of imports, W:ith,..S4ntling the difference in the duty. By systemeqt the foreign Slave Trade was 148° the 4lt,t it`gree supported. For instance, amount 'l3, tuft.,. Exports to the Brazils, last year, was '" 0 01., , and our Imports only 1,800,0001., 'a difference of 2,000,0004 This difference .I: l !Ceived. in B raz ili a n su g ar, which was taken to ..f4Te u rain the Continent of Europe, and there sold WCl , ltroduce of those countries. Thus did our i t et.sysLem o p era t e t o encoura ge the abominable il6l:detestable. Slave Trade, which we had made V i raertions to put a stop to. He conjured his t. Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exche nit4tto.consitler this question not merely us it might t he finances of the present moment, but as a ~ 1) , 1 : 1 4: re whi c h wou ld b e atten d e d w i t h th e mos t • : . p or ' e geiel .consequences to so many and such im tent interest s . H e (M r . Gr a nt), however, en ittsPth'ed no doubt but that this reduction, if it were ill lbNd • to, would p u rodce such an increased con erei,,,„Ptei", that it would be followed by a great in . Avlia of the revenu e. Th es e were the grounds led him to propose the Resolution which '* t " L elll in his h an d, and which he trusted would meet 'h, h e sanction of the House. Th e Ri g h t H on . : 4 ' . .eonclud e d by - moving, " That it was the opi °J.:this:Committee that the duty on all suers 1 4. trted into this, country from the British Colonies • .th 'West iiidies be reduced to 20s. per cwt.; that eZ du tY on East India sugar be reduced tp 255. per f M.; - and on all foreign sugars, not the produce o .4141 h Colonies, to 28s. per cwt. said..l CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER p o '`Hat.the p ro p ose d re d uct i on would fall into the enntietsof. the producer, and not into that of the . in u rner- He denied that any cheapness of price ... A t "gar would occasion an increased consumption, ,tild 1 10 , 1 , 4 article was so generally in use, that it co tio n - h ue !Mich more so. The reduction in the duties Aiti"; wine and coffee formed no analogy. Those n nd c 'es were consumed chiefly by the higher orders, infer r eduction of duty increased their use amongst classes. 'No such argument could be used Alt *ad resPeet to sugar, for it was in general use dn t . Y. In 1815 t h e pr i ce o f sugar , including all tu n d liinety-one Shillings arid tenpence per 'Pigl it r ''' ~,Weigbt. •At present the price was fifty redo and eightpence; and this immense as aPPeated bv the returns, did not °ma . lion any increased consumption. He calculated that the proposed reduetion . : of seven shillings - would increase the t..ll,.uniption by only . five hundred thousand buiaired weight per annurri, wltielt would be no sensible relief to the grbuter, whil-t the 'pro posed reduction of duty would be a serious diminu tion of the revent:e.. . • _ Mr. BRIGHT maintained that the West India :nterest had been long oVer-taxed, and that it ought to be relieved. The taxation between the West and East India interest was disproportioned. The Go vernment had said that it would relieve the West India interest from its weight of taxation, when the pressure of the war was reduced ; but since the termination of hostilities, other interests had been relieved horn taxes, whilst the West India pro prietors had not received any corresponding relief. Sugar would become a necessary of life, if the high rate of dutieS did not enhance its price. He complained that sugars were not altowed to be used in the distilleries, the British grower having a monopoly of that market. It was not fair to call upon one party to give up its monopoly, unless the other gave up its corresponding advantage. He conceived that the slave trade ought to be put down. It was a serious injury to the West India interests, and would injure the country in the event of a war. He agreed with the Right Hon. Gent. that a rednc- . tion of the West India - Sugar Duty ought to take place, but he did not agree with the scale proposed for the duties. Mr. W. WHITMORE supported the proposi tion of the Right Hon: Gentleman, believing that not only with regard to the commerce of this coun try, but with respect -to the West India colonists themselves, it would be productive of great benefit. The commerce of England would be extended by permitting the sugars of tropical countries to be brought here in exchange for our manufactures. It might, and certainly would, be extended in Ireland. The Right Hon. Gentleman had made a calculation shewing that the consumption of sugar in this country amounted to twenty-two millions of pounds, and that in Ireland it did not exceed three millions. Now if, as he hoped to see, a stimulus were given to the manufacturing energies of Ireland, and if sugar could be freely introduced there in payment for those manufactures, the comforts of her people would be increased, and the Government must de rive immense advantages from the same source. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had objected to the proposition, on the ground that it would take away a sum of 560,0001. from the revenue, a sum which he stated the Government could not now afford to give up, as they required the surplus now existing for the purposes he had on a previous occa sion stated to the House. He (Mr. Whitmore) did not agree with that argument, for he was persuaded that one of the most useful purposes to which the surplus could be applied was the reduction of duty on such a necessary article of life.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BERNAL agreed in part with the proposi tion of his Right Hon. Friend—namely, so far as related to the reduction of the duty on West India sugar; but he did not think the proposal ought to be acceded to with respect to East India and fo reign sugar ; for, in his opinion, it gent to reduce the proportion too much in their favour. He was not opposed to the introduction of a greater degree of freedom in the Sugar Trade, but that alteration must be accompanied with others, and must be un dertaken and executed gradually. The connection between this country was old and intimate, and it could not be altered suddenly. Confidence must first be created, and opportunity afforded to West India Proprietors to disengage themselves from those pecuniary obligations existing between some of them and merchants of this country. Besides, this was a question that could not be decided by itself; and he did not think it ought to be decided now, when the general question had yet to come under the consideration of the House. They had the question of the renewal of the East India Com pany's Charter to consider ; and this particular question ought to be considered with reference to that, and not by itself. It -,hould be viewed with relation, not only to fiscal and commercial, but to political Considerations. . Mr. TRANT supported the. motion. . Mr. K. DOUGLAS thought the duty 'was a war duty, and ought to be redueed. Mr. HUSKISSON agreed with the Chancellor of the -Exchequer, that whenever they came to the settling of the sugar duties, they ought to look to other interests which were bound up with that ques tion. They ought not to consider solely the West Indies, but the East Indies, the interests of com merce, the interests of our navigation, and that inte rest which too often was lost sight of in discussions of this nature, namely, the interest of the people.— (Hear, hear.)--He quite agreed with the Hon. Member for Rochester, that by the revision of the whole question, we might pLonote and secure all these interests; and he, for one, felt so strongly the claims of the West - India Colonists, on account of their long continuance, their importance in a pecu niary, in a maritime, and in a commercial point of view—he felt, he said, their claims so strongly in every way, that if ail otl.er interests could lie more or less promoted, he should be sorry to promote them by the sacrifice of the West India Colonists. He was, however, satisfied, that if the House were to adopt the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend, they would consult the advancement of all these in terests without injury to any one of them. His Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) thought that all these interests might be pro moted by the general consideration of this gm s tion ; he himself had only required u general con sideration of the question ; and when, two years ago, the Hon. Member for Bridgnorth had brought forward a proposition for the redaction of the duty, he (Mr. Huskisson) had said that the whole sub ject ought to be discussed together, and as far as he could, in the situation he then held, he bad pledged himself to bring the whole question under the con sideration of the House. The Right Hon. Gent., with reference to this subject, had opposed the pro posal of his Right Hon. Friend, on the ground that the interests of the revenue would not allow of its being carried into effect. His argument would have much force if his premises could he admitted; but those premises were, that as there had always been a revenue of five millions derived from the duty on sugar, the same amount of revenue ought still to be obtained from the smile source. He denied that such a conclusion ought to follow from such a fact ; but even allowing the conclusion to be legitimate, it did not follow that an increased consumption, though with a reduced duty, would not give the same amount of revenue. If the argument could lie applied to sugar, it could in like manner, be ap plied to other exeiseable commodities ; and then, because tobacco had given the revenue three mil lions, and malt and beer had given it eight millions, the same duty ought to be 'continued, that the same revenue might still be derived from them. Again lie begged to protest against such a conclusion in con sidering the reduction of the duty to which the Right Hon. Gentleman had objected, on the score that it was not likely the reduction of duty would be fol lowed by increased consumption, the Right ,Hon. Gentleman ought to recollect that when the former reduction to which be had alluded was made, prices were much higher than at present. The pr ices of all articles must be taken into consideration ; and he believed, if a reduction of duty to the amount of 7s. took place when sugar was 545. per cwt., the in crease of consumption would be much greater than when the price was upwards of 90s. But in con• sidering a question like this, it was necessary to look to all the g-eat interests likely to be benefitted by it, as well as the revenue. It was the duty of Parlia ment to promote those measures by which the public would be much benefitted, though the revenue might in the first instance suffer a little. The Hon. Member for Bristol had referred to the Brazils sugar. Did that Hon. Member know that he had presented a petition in the early part of the evening from parties who had last year exported from the Brazils, in British ships, 70,000 tons of sugar in payment for British manuf,ctures,.and of that 7t),000 tons only 5,000 came into this country ? The other 65,000 tons were carried to foreign countries; and he maintained, if the law were altered, all this sugar Would • have- been brought - to thia."Country, would have been warehoused, and :perhaps ,refined here, , in creasing our trade, and finding profitable employment for our • capital. -But for the , laW all that sugar Would find its way to this country, and, but for the laW, he believed, that we should refine sugar to, all Europe. Owiliz to the ch,apries , ; of fuel awl the many con%eniences possessed by this country, the merchants would send, sugar here from every place,. At present, he believed, many of the sugar refineries on the Continent were carried on by Bri tish capital. To consider a question-like this only in its immediate relation .to revenue was taking a very short-sighted view of it.. .The few thousand pounds the revenue might .lose in the first instance would soon be made up by the increased consump tion and increased traffic occasioned by gig ing greater freedom to the trade. The navigation of the empire was important, and ought to be taken into consideration as well as the other interests that would be henefited by the reduction of duty. It I was well known how much the consumpt►on of coffee had increased by its cheapness, and he did not see why the same effect should not take place as to sugar. Gentlemen did not know how much the poor people studied how they might lay out their pence to the greatest advantage, and obtain, for any thing they had to spare, the greatest quantity of enjoyment. It was very possible that two-thirds of the coffee drunk by the lower classes was drunk without sugar; and if the sugar were cheap, it was probable they would use it in proportion to coffee.. The growers of wool were complaining of the low ness of the price of wool, but it was well known that the cheapness of clothing brought it more into use. As cotton had become cheap, it had been substituted for woollen. As spirits had been manufactured cheap, they had been substituted for beer. At present, he had been informed that the people in Leeds, and other places, the seat, of the woollen manufac ture, had begun to wear cotton, because it was cheap. The same fact would undoubtedly hold good with sugar. The Hon. Members in the West India interest complained of the monopoly enjoyed by this country against the West Indies ; but there was, he believed, no commodities except fish, or salt provisions, which might not be imported into the West India Islands from any part- of the world. These exceptions could not be a sufficient grievance to constitute a ground of complaint. The Hon. Member for Rochester had spoken of the compara tive high price of the herrings carried from this country. Was he, then, not aware that the herrings of the North of Europe, which he said were so cheap, were, in fact, a great part of them cured in Scotland, and exported to the North of Europe ? If we encouraged the East India sugar-growers by a bounty of ten shil lings the hundred weight, the West India proprie tors might have some ground of complaint, and might require that some alteration should be made in their favour. The scale of duties proposed by his Right Hon. Friend would not affect disadvan tageously the West Indies, and it would be an act of justice to the East Indies. At present there was little or none of the East India sugar consumed i►► Europe, and there was no reason to apprehend it would displace the West India sugar in our market. The apprehensions of that were a mere bugbear, while allowing it to come into the market would give a new life to trade, and a new spirit to industry. The opening of the ports to the West India trade had not, he admitted, extended that trade much, but that was because the West Indians could find no better market for their commodities than this country. The merchants of Demerara, who, by the capitulation, were authorised to bring sugar to this country, did so; they selected this country in preference to any other market, because they found longer credits, and better prices. Un fortunately the West Indians were generally under obligations to their consignees in this country, -and any sudden change in their relations to them could not be expected, but the law ought to do what it could to relieve the trade. On the whole, he was satisfied that if they did not consider the subject this session, that the time was not far distant when what was - due to our great interests, to our com• merce, our navigation, and our industry, and .what was. due to the colonies themselves, would oblige us, and he hoped, if with some diminution in the revenue in the first instance, yet with• an improve ment in it at no .distant date, to make a judicious al teration and a considerable abatement in the sugar duties. It had been promised year after year, and he was sorry to find his Right Hon. Friend (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) think he could not make the alteration this Session of Parliament, because he ap prehended a diminution of the revenue. He en treated the House and the Government not to post pone indefinitely this important improvement. Some thing had been said about the West Indians being compelled to take English manufactures. Why all the world were compelled to take English manufac tures. The cheapness of these commodities was the source of the compulsion ; but surely there was no grievance in this. Something also had been said of the monopoly enjoyed by the English landlords, and the prohibition to distil from sugar; but the fact was, that spirits could not be made from sugar so cheap as from barley. We were obliged to distil from sugar at a period of distress; but even then it was done at a loss. It was irrational, therefore, to complain of the monopoly of the landowners. On the whole, he thought that the alteration might now be made, and he meant to support the proposition of his Right Hon. Friend. Mr. BRIGHT ; the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE QUER, and Mr. Husxtssos m utually explained. Sir ROBERT FARQUHAR would net enter further into the question before the Committee, than to observe, that the reduction of the duty on sugar had been promised to the Mauritius as well as to the other Colonies. ----- Mr. A. BARING was disposed to equalize the duties on East and West India Sugar, but it must be remembered that sugar was brought from the East Indies in a more refined state than from the West Indies, and a nominal equalization of the duties might be unjust to the West India sugar. Taking this circumstance into consideration, he thought the equalization of the duties would be beneficial. But while he was ready to equalize the duties, he was •not prepared to vote for a reduction of duty. He thought that under the present circumstances of the country, we could not spare any revenue, and he, therefore, thought that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer had exercised a sound discretion in refusing to make the experiment this year. It was incum bent on those who proposed this diminution of the revenue to show how it could be replaced ; and as he did not think this had beet► done, he could not vote for the proposition of the Right Hon. Gent. After a few words from Mr. F. Buxton, Sir R. Farquhar, Mr. Huskisson, Mr. C. Grant, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Committee di vided— For Mr. C. Grant's Mexion 6O Against it 9B Majority SS On our re-entrance Sir A. GRANT was bring ing up the Report, and it was ordered to be received to-morrow. METROPOLIS POLICE BILL. Mr. Secretary PEEL moved the third reading of the Metropolis Police Bill. Mr. C. PELHAM opposed it very briefly. The Bill was then a third time. Mr. PEEL proposed a clause, by way of rider, making provision in case of the misnomer of parishes. Mr. BRIGHT said, that after what he had ready said on this subject io the course of the even ing, and after witnessing the spirit in which the House had received it, he should not further oppose the progress of the Bill. The clause was then added to the Bill, and it was passed, and ordered to the Lords. BUCKINGHAM PALACE. Lord LOWTHLR moved that the House go into Committee on the Land Revenue Bill. Colonel DAVIES felt called upon to make some remarks before the Speaker left the Chair, an d to bring some serious charges against a well•known in- dividual, much mixed up with matters treated of in ' quarter. He trusted that after this explanation the House the Bill, It was a. measure of revenue, and of con- would not refuse going into a Committee. siderable interest end importance to the public, as it i Colonel DAVIES thought that a. sufficient ease for in gave to the Lords of the Treasury the power of ap- quiry had been made out. plying almost indefinitely the produce of the Crown Mr. HUSKISSON should feel most happy to f.cilitate lands to the construction of Buckin ham Palae, any inquiry into matters which bad taken place whilst he g ~ had had the honour of holding th • office of Chief Commis while in another Clause the Commiisioneis of sinner Forests. of Woods and Wth respect to Mr. Nash; Woe& and Forests were authorized to sell all the he believed that there was no man less capable of being Cro ait estates. Although this power was after- ' actuated by selfish or unworthy motives in the discharge wards limited, yet he, should think it right to pro- 1 of his public duty. With regard to the change in the value pose an Amendment, that the Crown Lands and : of property in a short time, they had only to look to the Leases should only be disposed of by public auction. 1 increased value of the property of the Duke of Portland, Great frauds and malversations had formerly been i my Lord Grosvenor, and Duke of Bedford, in the last 30 committed in that department by the negligence of or 40 years. the predecessors of the Noble Lord ( Lowther)— 1 The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER concurred i most fully in this opinion. against whom, however, not the slightest imputation Sir J. YORKE thought it rather singular, that when a could he brought—and whose talents and activity üblic alien was accused, he invariably received from those would doubtless render essential services to the Fii office over him the best possible character. country. He (Colonel Davies) objected espe- Mr. J. WOOD said, of Mr. Nash h knew nothing, cially to that part of the Bill which related to but he was satisfied that the charges against hitn could not Buckingham Palace, of the expence of which rest where they were, and that his character demanded he held an estimate in his hand. That estimate they should be strictly investigated. The estimated ex• shewed, that originally the repair of the Palace pence of what had been already done, was 496,1691. But was to cost 252,0001., and it was to be made into a from what they knew already of Mr. Nash's estimates, he comfort tole residence for the King when he occa- thought it was much more likely that it would be 696,000/. sionally came to town from Windsor, as if for a How, indeed, could they expect a result different from that which took place in the case of Windsor Castle? It ap wealthy Nobleman. Front one expence to another p o ear i ed by a return laid on the table of that House, that up that estimate now rose to not less than 496,001)1, to 1828 Cassstulern while 44a5ie,000/. remainedhad been expended on el estimate ve l6 7f o, o r o f o u / r. 1,. to and the Appendix to the Report of the Committee detailed many most extravagant items. One of these be paid in addition; while the whole was the marble arch, the sculpture for which was not ture, and for additional apartments, required a sum, included in the original estimate of 16,000/., which making in all 214,0001. in addition to the original grant; Mr. Nash, the individual against whom he had to and it was his firm belief, that if they did not look well bring three distinct charges, had stated that it would to the estimates, a further sum of 100,0001. would be re cost. What did the House imagine was to be the (prised next year. In speaking of the expenses incurred royal palaces, he thought it worth while to revert to a expenee of the sculpture only for this arch? 34,0004 for Before the Committee, Mr. Nash had been strongly return ordered to be printed on the 19th of last July. Ws was a return of the Four and a Half per cent. duties, pressed as- to the total amount, but he constantly t i li v e e G nt ihral f tar h du c ties, the droits of the Admiralty, and other evaded the question, and did not say one word about we'rnt.ed it,ln the he fmouhnisdt inof it, however, d and 'the sculpture; which, added to the estimated original . where ' the least t e l :an o f A Appendix n Crowni x an expence of .16,000/., would make the arch cost the account of the sums P received on accout public no less than 50,000/. This, too, at a time from the sale of spices in the Molusca Islands. The amount When it was admitted that the most rigid economy was 140,000 t. ; and in the account of its expenditure, there was necessary, and when it was professed to be 01. was au item to which he thought few Members of that served. He (Colonel Davies) did not pretend to House would object—namely, 32,0001. to the Distressed any knowledge of architecture, but when he was told Spanish Refugees resident in this country. But then followed that this triumphal erection was so ornamental, he the fitting-up of the new State Rooms in St. James's could not help reflecting that the time might come 51,2181. ; for the Royal Lodge, Windsor Pack, when it would be otherwise. At present its " original P 14a, 1a 9 1 9 .e 6 , 1. ; and for the Pavillion Stables at Brighton, (htheaart, these hear !)—and the most curious part of the brightness" might contrast with the free-stone of the matter was, were omitted money 'tti.d t it o s b d e h b e r e o n nght palace, but when it put on " the customary suit of so- forward in 1826 an 7, sums o ma tha w t lemn black" worn by public buildings in our smoky pended three years before it was accounted for. Unless atmosphere, nobody would he able to tell whether something was done, he was satisfied, indeed, that one or it was constructed of marble or Portland stone. It two hundred thousand pounds would still be required fur must be in the recollection of those who had been furniture, in addition to all that was expended on the Members of the Committee, that . Mr. Nash took building ; and that, before the Monarch could he settled great credit to himself, and mentioned with exults- in Buckingham House, the country will have expended tion, that he had sent out for Carrara marble, and one million upon it erections. The Hon. Member con that he should in that article only effect a saving to eluded by saying, that neither his Majesty nor his Govern mentcould hope to have faithful servants around them, the public of 9,000/. He added, that he had shewn unless it Jwal\s,Efism Proeundth t e s y t - ed told the truth. ; (Hear, hear.) Air. o specimens to the principal importers of marble, and against i absence; altstthe nd expressed at a tacksonAlr that they had admitted that they could not supply it Nash and Mr. Edwards in under twenty-five thousand or twenty-six thousand a hope that the Hon. Member for Worcester W(Colonel pounds. A very few days after he had made this Davies) would feel it his duty, after the attack he had assertion, which was published in the Newspapers, a made on the character of those gentlemen, to carry the letter appeared from one of the houses to which Mr. matter further, and move that the Attorney-General be Nash -had stated that he sheaved the marble, ex- ordered to prosecute them for a conspiracy to injure and pressing astonishment that Mr. Nash had used its deteriorate the public property. name, as he had never consulted any of its partners, 11r. A. BARING, as one of the Commissioners ap pointed to superintend the expenditure at Windsor Castle, who had no notion that such a statement was to be felt himself called upon to make one or two observations u made. Then as to the commission to be allowed upon the charges brought against them by the Hon. Mem to the architect. Mr. Nash, upon what principle her for Preston (Mr. NA ood. ) That Hun. Member corn he (Colonel Davies) was at a loss to conjecture, plained of the expenditure exceeding the estimate. Be was allowed by Government five per cent. ; and admitted it had done so, and no one who knew anything when he was asked by the Committee whether about the state of that edifice could he surprised at the that was the usual allowance, he admitted that fact Whether, if it was the question now that Windsor he had received only three per cent. from the Board Castle should be restored at such an expence, Parliament of Works. In answer to other questions, he stated would give its consent, lie could not say ; but when it was that he had been allowed in-some instances three, determined to restore that truly national edifice, time Com-, Minis- missioners found there was scarcely a sound wall in it— and in others five per cent. ; that he had in three or four years received a sum of 24,000/., being more that when they attempted to pull a door apart for the pur than 6,000/. a year, the salary of a Cabinet r n ose d o o f w r n e airs the whole building was in danger of coin-. they, P and , were, therefore, in fact, under cessityofCastle. to be had upon laying out the gardens, furnishing from the apartments being uncommonly splendid, the Com the railings and other matters, which furnished ad- missioners had visited them lately, and he, as one of them, ditional ground of extravagance. It was a fact, that could say, that although handsoine and well adapted to if they wished to, have a public functionary dis- their several purposes, there were many Noblemen in charge his duty well, they must pay him well. But this kingdom quite 38 well lodged as the Sovereign. here they gave to this gentleman an interest in ex- There were circumstances connected with the present pending the public money, for the more he spent the question, and admitted, which, as a matter of business, certainly displayed a very improper arrangement.—(Hear, more he gained. In page 47 of the Report, it ap lateaoru.)n—tedWtloteftherdthe proceedings i under that arrangement pears he was asked if the Board of Works had no was sa t a i n le ot l i s e a r st qu o t. f .st i t t on,a burteilite oversightconfssed controul over the plans which he furnished, and his he m thought it,. to answer was " none whatever." Upon being further that the personn - who st y list the adviser of the g Treasury or questioned, he stated that his plaits were submitted the Government—he might perhaps add of the Sovereign to to the King, approved of by the King, and signed himself, should be permitted to be a jobber afterwards by the King, and that such plans obtained the in the way he had heard described. If Mr. Nash was counter-signature of the First Minister of State; acting in these matters on the part of Government, and but according to the evidence given in page 72 of allowed a commission for his trouble, he should have no the Report, it appeared that Mr. Nash was in thing to do with any part of the arrangement.—(Hear.)— the habit of regularly going on with his plans From all he had heard of Mr. Nash, he believed him in capable of a dishonest action ; but as a man who had without even waiting for the signature of the Minister. According to his statement, there proved an improvident manager of the public money, and who had, to the specimens which they possessed of his was already an expense of 496,0001., and yet this task, proved a most unfortunate architect ' he thought the was not all which the country was to be called upon Government ought not to have had anything to do with hims to pay; there were two fountains to be made, there Mr. BANKES thought the repairs of Windsor Castle were iron railings to be laid down, without saying a so essential to the dignity of the Crown and of the coun single word about the furniture; so that if the pub- try, that even if be had known the exact amount of the lic were not called upon to advance six hundred expense to be incurred, he, for one, could not have objected thousand pounds for this purpose, they might think to it. With respect, however, to Buckingham-house, the case had been completely reversed ; and in his opinion the th em selves well off. But even this was not all ; House fist et usesrvasd, neie wasltativitl 2 on s . ci o false o pretences.—(llea . r, hear . ) ) there were charges for improvements in Hyde-park T and Constitution - hill, which he considered altogether unwarranted ; which, with bridges, the gat e ( which lie there had been expended a sum with . in 4,010m0wl it see me d haif a million. With regard to the sum of 34,000/. for sculp thought highly to the architect's credit), and some ture of an arch, he should like to know by whose order other matters, amounted to 34,982/. In this latter that expense was incurred ?—at whose suggestion it was ease, however, Mr. Nash was not employed, and the designed? In his opinion, there was not a man who saw consequence was, that he dug a reservoir for water so immediately behind it, that the gate was of no use i a t n) bu o t th u e ' r ou p l l t a l e s e ay t t lit a n t t i h n e a t hrceh fronttnie h t o f b be placed e b e h t u t e d r t in except to look at. Having said thus much with re - setae, and therefore forming by its marble a most disagree able contrast. He asked, was any man bold enough to say spect to Mr. Nash, he would now proceed to more grave that the Palace would not he better without it, except per and serious charges against hint. But first, he must pre mise that he had never seen or had any communication haps the architect, who had thus chosen to build an ts o t l i r m - e purse. with that Gentleman, and therefore he could not be sup- s t ru ctiou to his view? The Hon. Member then referred posed to entertain any hostile feeling towards him ; he felt to the late wings of the Palace, which he described as reseoremblthei ng barns, Committee ad observed that Mr. admitted they were ass Nsh, ugly h wen lg._ it his duty, however, to accuse him of fraud upon the public f He had already observed upon the inexpediency of , n allowing the Commissioners of Woomls and Forests to let public thought them, and that they had disappointed his expectations. He was asked if he could correct the tie out the public lands in that competition. This was evi- The character of the architect, to be sure, wa s dent in respect to what took place with reference to Regent- feet? and he said yes, at an expense of 25,000/. for each s t r e e t ; but there was still a stronger case to be found in win g' the rebuilding of Suffolk-s i treet, Pall-mast East. On that depreciated, but then the value of the ooremission to the occasion an application was made by a person named Ed- architect was enhanced.—(Hear, heea.)..--The old wings wards for a lease of a portion of the land, and the applies- were pulled down; the new ones were erected, and Mr. Nash had his commisaion o ir n ini,:i t ne h eo e ttii: b a u cio i ni l n d os in e,icit g us u eon p p , epe: t ( h t : hi : ifi p s u nti l d l ni in ndg g , tiOn in writing was at that moment in the hands of the Commissioners of Woods and Forests. Soon after Alr. down, and the rebuilding of this part of the palace, Nash stafed that Mr. Edwards was not in possession of fault(ll e a (Hear, htehairs, instance a r ing fault with bad) — had, indeed, in building at any time after funds sufficient to carry on the building, and that he (Mr. Nash) would himself complete the work ; thus obtaining possession of the land at least 500 per cent. under its value. wards.—(A laugh.)—lf the House would turn to pages His charges against Mr. Nash did not rest here. lie 47 and 49 of the evidence annexed to the Report of the found that Mr. Nash had valued the lands taken by the Committee to which he had been adverting, they would proprietors of the Regent's Canal, and these lands were find by Mr. Nash's evidence that there was no person re valued at from 2601. to 360/. per acre, and he had granted s p onsible for the manner in which the mon e y was ex to him, at various times, diff e rent plots of ground in the pended. Mr. Nash, it appeared, to.mk his orders from e a. same quarter at the same rate, while in the vicinity of the individual who was undoubtedly well fitted by '„is taste Regent's Park, the London University had paid 4,5001. and judgment to give those orders —but, whether justified per acre for their land. Taking all these facts together, he constitutionally in doing so, he (Mr. Entices) would not thought they for me d s u c h a ground of charge as required pretend to say. Ho weds then turned over to the L o rd s o f investigation. The Hon. Member concluded by moving the Treasury, by whom he was referred for payraent to the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, who hail no con, the appointment of a Comtnittee to inquire into the Ex- the 4, ov ti e t te re t t l o re re, ex t r u e t nd u i n tu;e te t o y meansoplmsi opposite imputed any 11 e blame it e iiry i, t ql o i !,: the id ras i rl i e s iih;t u Au t : Hon. i . bnl a ee s y , fa G i li r e l e ) n l ;l t b e o y m a t iP i h n u e penditure of building Buckinghatn-boose, as well as the mode adopted in letting crown Lands? i t t o u a t t l o e n fov lead e ever duneexpenditure,e i .t t . . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was not his intention upon that occasion to enter law the public as an eneletoan ' details.over which the Hon. Member had gone, but he (A loud laug y h g .)—But what was the expedient to WI:114 could not help observing, that by the Act of 1825 the s tl , r d e d ß h i e gh n t ro l u l l o d n p . r G op s s e se tlem a a i n n n n o it w proposed to, sesoci?, - li e Commissioners of Woods and Forests were empowered to Alit of what benefit would lti than again be in the situation and h that if that limit were excee4d,, h e wou ld apply their funds for the purpose of building and repairing ttheatHheore The state i the ces e ?. en t d . it E u a r n e. kes) H k e n i e v wz e l Royal Palaces. There certainly was a limit to this ex wliich it st e ool e t: l t s p e r w es e e u t l it. He I'll penditure, which might be seen by the estimate on th! portion sr,f (ac eatinii4e ; and futus a e table. The Hon. Member for Worcester had attached the Weil how to oontroul the future expenditure. character of Mr. Nash, and 4,1 carried his charges over a to put upon the trans.ction a math of the disilperobo-A nember of years. 41ow it was impossible that lie could of the House, by deducting defend the character and conduct of Mr. Nash so far back if there should be any esktrateaga,nce, Iv hoped the as 1816 ; but there was a point upon which he felt that House would tionen -of.l • l a g d uty some t„ os .,,,,. .3 .. uuty to the he could do that gentleman ample justice, di inasini it as it public, • '-- came und er hi s own o b serva ti on . It had reached him that i L q oc -7. ALTHORP wished t o k now if t h e estimate ef a person named Edwards had applied for a pOrtioil of the 6 4fis e ooo/. did or did not include the 200,000/. from the ground upon which Suffolk-street was to tae built; Mr. French claims? In his opinion the wltole Inceeeding had Nash bad himself valued the land; but it became known been a most wasteful eat pend t t . tire a . the public money. to the Commissioners of Woods and Forests that Edwards The Hon 31% . ein er fur PArattEutire was experienced in the was privately connected with Mr. Nash. Another person, forms of . named Shaw, - was called in to valise the property; and be able the ll9\lt4attd he (Lord Althorp) hoped he might upon that validation it was that Mr. Nash took it thorn '' • sculpture of the arch. Edwards, If ti -"Ile Wai: any blame in this transaction it l e to prevent the expenditure of the 34,0001. for tile Mr. HUAIE begged to obsetve, thrst be, for one did not , , certainly ought not to atiacli ' to Mr. Nash, but to another blame Mr. or in ' Nash, . other person but the Lords of the Treasury. They wen the titdpahle parths, aid thei were responsible for the extravagant expence witch ha I been incurred. . . • . , • - Mr. PROTHEROE tho ug ht M r: ' . Nast had b een hardly dealt With. Had the Right Han.- Gentleniatt„Toilad. any .of his Majesty's Ministers, ever seen tthe-Palan-? He be lieved Mr. Nash boasted that none'of them had seen it. He (Mr. Protheroe) had seen the Palace, and he much distrusted that it could be completed for tho estimate now framed. Not a room was plastered. Many of the doors had received only one coat of paint. No floors were laid down. The ceilings were but half finished ; and non? of the gilding had been executed. Then there was the fur niture, of which no notice had been taken. All tlu se things convinced him that the expendittne would be greater than w. 14 at present anticipated. Mr. BANKES said, that when the Bill came b •fore the Committee, he would move the deduction of 32,4501. from the sum proposed, in order to mark the sense which the House entertained of the proceeding. Mr. R. COLBORNE was no greater admirer of Buck ingham Palace than any other Hon. Member ; but he thought it too late to interfere. The House then resolved itself into the Committee on the Bill. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—With respect to Buckingham Palace, it was begun in 1825, after considerable discussion in the House on its propriety ; a debate took place on the situation, and it was deter mined that it should be where it was. The responsibiiity, therefore, was slfared by the House. It was true that the original estimate was only 250,0001., but that estimate had within it a variety of exceptions ; a number of charges were not includes in it. The etch had been complained of. Right or wrong, it formed a part of the original plan. The marble for it haring been procured, and tl.e workmanship commenced, the question was, whether the expence ineurrt d was to be thrown away? The sculpture was in a great measure completed. One side of the arch was raised. To leave it in its present state would be to leave a deformity, disgraceful to all parties. Taking the arch as an individual building, he did not by any means consider it discreditable either to those by whom it had been designed or by whom it had been executed. The Hon. Member for Evesham doubted whether he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had ever seen the Palace. He had, however, gone over it but a very short time ►tgo ; and although no part was finished, he could not allow that it was so very far from comp•etion as the Hon. Member for Evesham supposed. Although the floors were not-laid, most of them were ready, as well as the window-frames; and the plaster was all prepared, although not applied. The Hon. Member for Horsham had asked him what it was intended to do respecting the road through the Bird cage-walk? He could assure the Hon. Member that he only did justice to his Majesty's disposition in what had fa!len from him on that point. Of that fart the opening of the gardens in the middle of the park afforded a striking proof. The same disposition which had thus induced his Majesty to consult the comfort of the middle classes would also govern him with respect to the accommodation of the higher ; and although the proposed buildings were postponer), on account of the expence, it was still intended to open a road to the Houses of Parliament through Storev's-gate-- of course subject to those regulations of the Parks, which permitted only private carriages to pass by it. As to the gates of the bridge at Kensington-gardens, he was really I unable at present to give any information on the subject. After a few further observations the Right Hon. Gent. moved an Introduction in the first clause of the Bill to ti e following effect :—" Provided, that the sum to be applied under this Bill shall not exceed the sum of 150,000/. over• and above the sum specified in the preceding Acts." Mr. BANKES proposed, as an Amendment to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's Resolution, that the esti mate be reduced by 34,4501., which brought the estimate to 115,550/. Mr. ARBUTHNOT wished, before the Committee divided, to make an observation in, answer to a remark which fell from the Hon. Member for Horsham respecting Mr. Nash's having an interest in some of the houses now • building on the site of Carlton House. The facts of the case were, that a house had been built for the Hon. Bart. at the southeast corner of the gardens, which would have been isolated had not Mr. Nash most liberally come for ward and offered to build at his • own expence, and dispose of to any purchasers at cost pace, five houses in a : 111 - 4 with that which he had before mentioned. A great num ber of persons: had applied for houses on the other side, but there was an unwillingness to take houses in the situation• of those now building by Mr. Nash. He thOught th4t great credit was due to Mr. Nash for haying acted with so much liberality. Mr. POULETT THOMPSON rose to ask the Chan cellor of the Exchequer whether he would pledge himself that the vote of 496,0001. would be sufficient - to complete the building, and that the House should not be_ called upon hereafter to Squander fresh sums of the public money away on this Palace ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would not give the Hon. Member a positive pledge; but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had no doubt in his owt, mind but that the present estimate would be amply suffi cient to complete the work. Colonel DAVIES made a few observations, which. were inaudible in the gallery. 11Ir. WOOD thought that it was an insult to the House to be called upon to vote large sums of money for the. , e new palaces withsut having any pledge that no more would be called for to complete them. He wished to ask the Noble Lord (Lord Lowther) opposite, whether it was the intention of the Boaid of Works to have a passage opened from the end of Waterloo-place into St. James's-park ? if such a passage was in contemplation, he suggested that it would be desirable to open it as soon ae possible. Ho could not refrain, now he was on his legs, from alluding to the present dangerous state of the State Paper-o Dice, in Great George-street, which almost threatened is fxlldoFt'tt on the passengers. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that a sum of money had been voted by the House fee the pur pose of providing a State Paper Office, and tho time it was understood that the Sessions House, Dar Westminster hall, would be purchased for that purraiie ; but the Magis tastes had reiuirea such an exorbitant sum for this building (which would also require to have some money laid out upink it) that the treaty was put an end to, and th e G overir:i„ , determined to provide a building for the purpos' e.isewhere. With respect to the wooden budding iu 7: estminiter-hall, he could only say that it would. sil- atly be removed, as a place was now being P W .P 4 ',d for the reception of the public pap ,rs, 84( ''' 11 -`' )Dt 7.ined therein. After 1 f " W w ' s :rds from Mr. S. WORTLEY, strangers were micro' to withdraw, and the House divided, when there P 7epeared for Mr. Bankes's Amendment, Noes 9l Ayes 6l Majority against the Atneniment —3O The original motion of the Chancellor of the Excheluer was then put anti agreed to without a division. The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be presented this day. The other 01 ders of the Day were then disposed of, - and the House adjourned at Half-past Two o'clock. •, HAMBURGH MARKE.TS, 13oasEN-TIALLE, MAy 23.--.Abboegh considerable purchases of Wheat continue to, be made for French and English account they do ncA I.ecp pace with the arrivals ; our warehouses contiau.e to fill, and it is calculated there are in the rive; afi. present 1600 to 2,000 lasts afloat and un sold. Our own consumers purchase sparingly. Of Rye the arrivals continue to be small, and, conse quently, of easy sate. Some has even been purchased on foreign account., With respect to Barley, those who have any on hand are beginning to ask higher prices, which, however, they can not yet obtain. From the 7th to the 12th inst, inehasive DS cargoes of corn p.tssed through the Sounii; of these, 39 were bound for British, 24 for Du,to4, 27 for French, and seven for Swedish and Nomegiian ports ; the destination of the re. mainina !..,;,:i t wo e % unknown. Weight. Rix dollars. De.atsio Wheat 122 to 126 152 to 170 Pomeranian 124 to 128 142 to 1f Ai Anhalt, white red 12 - 2 to 128. - . 148 to 160 Danish - Dantzic Rye llB to 122 ^4l La 78 slagdeburgh 1 4rtey .. 98 to 104 ,50 to 55 Anliajt, . . - 9 B 9B to 10-1......,. 55 to 62 UplW. oats .. 1 - 442teixt Rapeseed The uncertainty , pfecailing with respect to the po. licy likely,fo be adoptecliiigiussia and England has infused a degree of-i!Ullnes.s iuto c4r stock market. The approach ing seticing day for the eml of the monthil.ai lx i ous ly ex pected, t,Ve eFigagetnenis• then to be liqqaated being un. u wally great. Discount has risen flirt 2.)s to *.pir cent. Funds for time are sellers. End of May. Anglo-Danish Loan, 3 per cent.. Anglo-Russian Loan 93ii lla.nburgli-Russian Loan Polish Bonds Austrian Bank Shares 1103 Mists ian Metalliquei Exchange upon London at sight ... l3 9 1 y at two months, "13 1/4_ Amsterd m, at two mouths, 35 50-10 U Paris ........, at two months, 19814. •