The Sun. — London, England, 1829-03-06 00:00:00

the slightest degree invade the general principle.—(Bear.) I helitv e I have explained sufficiently and intelligibly the outlin e of the Bill us to civil privileges. If there he arty point upon which I h ave net b een suf fi ciently clear and ex icit, I alt b • happy to enter into furthe r d e t a il s to supp l y the dsfieieriev. Lord NUGENT asked, if we heard him correctly, a question relative to the rights of Roman Catholics of Eng land and Scotland. AL PEEL —The English and Scotch Roman Catho• lice will be placed !mem the same footing as the Irish, as fat as regards supremacy and the filling up of situations te e th e pietestatit Chur c h. I h ave t h us, Sir, granted Roman Catholic the prayer of his . petition, , He may °ilvet,tOesitlemf,4 grounds; b ut I aga i n say , he has tto •fieltt tosexpeet More than any other of his Majesty's sub eels. The elective franchise, Sir, is a subject of that Importance that I approach it with tie— eesees cau 47.'."'c"eart hear, is absolutely necessary , I teretiott should he tirade= it is necessary for e Of the Moral of ; the pessplef is rivcesSar for the great's , : tweerity of this eeess:on, as it We u id afford additional security. ,s was introduced in 1825 to raise the qualification of a , vote, but owing to the particular circumstances at that ! f lue it was not persevered in, The friends of Ire !'" trete aware that it stood upon bad grounds, and was exercised upon bad principles. It was the instrument by which the aristocracy of Ireland exercised their influence in the country, and the freeholders were ftenzrallyi made for the purpose of - 1 ., a fie aitogether diffetetit ftom the franchise in Engiana. the! der the fr anc hi se, as i t at present existed, the influence of andlord was paralyzed, and the priest stepped in to deprive hin t of it altogither. It is in vain for any one to look to what bed taken place in the counties of Monaghan, Louth, and Alayo, and t o assert that we had not a right to see that the franehiee Was not exercised in its present inegitl- Tete tnanner.—(Loud cheers.)-1 will, in the first in sdia:t!e, fiCirs look at this question on grounds altogether distinct from religion, and apart from any connection with the Catholic Question. I will discuss it on the gr_ou . nd of preced ent and principle, and argue in this point Z.1,.1 cont Pew— whether the a l terat i on I ant a b ou t t o p ropose whether 11ronl the expression of popiller °C it Will ettect a great improvement in irekd Pack "' I n the fir s t p l ace, as to the number of- votes in county, In some counties in Ireland the number . r eters regi s t ered are not less than 13,000, while in oth ers th e y are 15,000, and in some even as high as 7 h ' OOO - If a comparison were drawn between the n , "%eta voting in Ireland and those voting in England, ft d urould be found that the numbers in Ireland implied no ;s,(lllate proportion of property. I ask, Sir, the House "". took at the numbers who have voted on a recent occa sion • in Ireland, and I also ask if it can be necessary, on cutlet of prOperty, that such numbers of vote', should exist t he purpose of an independent representation of the ?---(Hear. )—Lookin g a t t h e C ount i es o f England, sat h holder election f or B e df or d s hi re, t h e number of free h.. "Ps polled, was a b ou t 4,000. F or B er k s hi re, the num it P o lled, Wee 2750. For Cu m b er l an d, over 4,000. es be bevonshi re , 629 8. For Glamorganshire, 1284. PFor Aliddlesex, 10,000 ; and for Westmoreland, 4300. i s retur ns , Si r, from Ireland are imperfect, but I believe I eorrect in saying that the number of voters in many ttinties are from 10,000 to 18,000. I beg to call the at tentiont.. of the House to what has been done with regard to ImUla franchise, and if ever there was a precedent for any • • "sure, there is a precedent for the present in those times in which the 40s. franchise was first introduced. I will O nly, Sir, t a k e the preamble of the Act of the Bth of Henry V aand if I wanted an instance in which ; Legi sl ature h a d foreseen the evils likely to accrue from ed in. toe num erous a franchise, it would .be afford thus 1 1 the pream b le of t h at A ct.—( l t runs '"" Whereas the elections of Knights of Shires to come to the Parliaments of our Lord the King in many cmeunties of the realm of England, have now of late been oby very great, outrageous, and excessive number of )odl P dWelling within the same counties of the realm of ,Zg l 'aud, of the which most part was of peole of small fence and of no value—(hear, and laughte r )—whereof e ti e o l 2' otf them pretended a voice equivalent as to such elec. P a ; ir ° b e made with the most worthyatcnighte and lee n , ea dwelling within the same counties . " Wh a t fol hers it Will be seen, is peculiarly applicable :—" Whereby rsuslaughters, riots, batteries, and divisions among the: ef3tlemen and ether peopleof the same kind, shall very ' ke lY rise and he, l i e f ssconvenient and due remedy be , r°r ided in this be u h l a ) the 15' ; our Lord the King, considering sh a r .ein tses, hath provided," and so on, curtailing the e„ogling- franchise, and declaring that no man should be taed to vote, unlees he were possessed of a freehold of :ff„ e ,.. an uuld value of forty s hillings. The statement of the „,—` of this measure, as related in a high. and most unsus r'efed a uthority, i s e' exceedingly apposite that I heg perm th Laws to read it, It is found in a Treatise on Nathaniel Litsys and Qin stitntion of England, written by .iathaniel Bacon, who was Secretary and Executor of Learned Selden. Bacon was the decided friend of p o • pular privileges, and this is the account h e gis of the cs)lb3"( ed tct of t he statute of henry VI., and the effect ve it pro r ea d 1 upon th e country. [The ight Hon. Gentleman a lon g quotation from the n work to which he re- It began in ahem terms :—" Thus th e num b er o f ectors is reduced, but the electors are more considerable f l Ur b e f ore then any man of English blood promiscuously the ri g ht to g i ve or rece i ve a vote, although hie rest_ B ence was over the wide world." It proceed to state that (` the change was no less good than great," and dwelt upon the inclination of the lower orders " not to judge of per sotto or times, but to be led, for the most part, by affee fion, rath er th an r i g h t understanding. " In this way the issPectability of the General Council of the nation was Netted, and th e r i g h ts of those whose estates were charge sto t h e taxee of the country, were impaired. The 4 4 went to she w i n w h at way t hi s restr i ct i on o f th e Purchas e was " b enef i cial to the men of Eng l an d ; th t ugh, perchance, they considered it not, for it abated 11:Power of the Lords and great men," while it re.en -7`l the bod y o f t h e people more grave and respectable, 'I 1. 'titled th e spur of ambition to other incitements. The tis t adv antage, noticed by the author, regarded the separa tu.a of th e i n f er i or clergy and the diminution of the the monist' and friars. [This last passage was s ‘lu ;LY cheered by the [louse.] Coupling this description s cons equences o f t h e Statute w i t h t h e pream bl e o f Ni s Act which cut tailed the franchise, it seems to me that lug can be more apposite or appropriate to the sub hi BThe measure I o , ; pose will have the effect adverted b.,acon ; it will raise the respectability of the voters, i that is the sole object in view. I hope there ly f o sistoute an independent constituency in the place . o a eslaitimeney dependent either on the landlord or the priest. eq (Hear hear.) Ido not say, and I cannot contend, that e effect will be to diminish the Roman Catholic influd -4; but I assert that the spiritual controul exercise j et. th e voter is illegitimate, and that it ought not to et:lL—Much cheerio Before the House comes te:ideeision upon this important question, I entreat that t-efr'sovvillread the evidence taken before the House o f Lord, as and Commons upon that subject, I hope that ft es't e a en al eZ, Whether for or against ,the Catholics, whether lor an Ecclesiastic, will read that evidence, 141 t int sure they must agree with me that there f f f eYer se a , such concurrent testimony afforded of the evils of an Measur e as there is there of the evils of the Elec- Fi'anchiee. The Franchise in Ireland is wholly ,tererat from that of England. In England tbe Franchise (dat e for life, but still it was not advisable to accom the practice in Ireland to that in England, li wonld be a teo violent and sudden alteration of , q e law, and therefore it would be very advisable o ‘ h , a l'oid it. In the evidence before the House, various ta i were given as to the amount to which the elec i!e franchise should be raised ; some have stated that it be raised to 20/. in order to ensure a respectable sti ' i stituent, but for my own part I think that too violent ep alt eration of th e l aw , an d as th ere i s an intermediate %vat be tween 40s. and 201., I ant inclined to be satisfied nti "l' 0/, --(Hear.)—lt is very difficult to estimate the 1 1 ',,:":4 that would be entitled to vote under this alters- V , but doubtless they would be very considerable.- 4 ta ,to be observed, that the regit tered number of freeholds . i e 's anim a l value of 501. or 201., would affiwd no cri lZe; there is no intermediate registration between free enn,"%,°f 2 01. and 40s. ; all those of 101., 121., or any sr b elow 201., are treated as 40s. freeholds ; hence we f e uot to conclude, that all who are registered as 4015. tZeholders are sa in fact, for they may be freeholders to :keel-tent of 101., 151., or any intermediate sum below 44 44 I Should propose, in the first place, that the deter -41, ti On of the freehold should not, as at present, rest only tioC,the oath o f th e party . N ot hi ng can b e so objet '' e t , a °le as that s y s t e m o f l a w i n I re l an d, w hi c h l e a ve s 'itit t o tYt s , h ine to the oa th of individu a l s ; it h as i n t ro d uce d . `f et country, I am.afraid, a great deal-cif- lax swear- if it d o not mer i t the terms fraud and perjury. Any .. to tt ri ,PaY go before two tae nd rgister his vote le tti ,l upon the responsibility of his oath, however igno 's ee n " , may be of the nature of the sacred obligation. The tr tt ' is t ructio n of the law, too, is this—not that the man's "ranl`l is worth 40s. a year, but that he would rather • ft eo ,""u in it than accept 40a. a year; thus numbers of „ Id s where the interest is un alit,ti are constantly made 4 1 4 ...: 541 31y less than 40s. a year. A mats who holds f. ttke, -- e, a term of years has certainly no power o thti t Zt freeholds, hot numberless freeholds are never "fated and sworn to, without the slightest pos- sileility of any cheek upon those whose oath obtains the registration. The edbe .'e I select 40 far to remedy this eeee ide de .. a ten peunds free hold Shall be ent:l.l t• . ; s• ! dees'eet sisti sate; but let us adopt some wiri of asesrtainiiig eteldell r the a pr etty . has, in feetoe Ole fisediold. I pieepeelee deri rrieiss the passing of the lei!, a 'fey shall be fite,l ifi re e l-, e o tlety in Ireland, and that melee shall be give in every market town, that the opportunity is given of registering bona fide freeholds of the annual value of lad. I shall also suggest, not that the right eef voting shoultimmediately accrue upon the . registration ; lent th a t it may be exercised at an earlier pencil than at present. I helieve that the right to vote does trot until tevelee !I-writhe aftee the date of the. registration, but I IstiotO no sufficient reasoft tvhe' tr_at period should net be reduced] to six months. lam aware that the point to which I am now about to advert is of tne greatest importance, viz., the constitution of the tri bun el by which the right to vote shall be determined. I propose a mode of determining- that right, which appears to i'le better calculated than any other thee can be de e iSedl for the purpose a enshrine the faithful reierefee of the power to be entrusted. Every Irish gentleman, of course, knows, and no doubt most Englishmen know, that there is in every county of Ireland an officer, known by the name of the Assistant Barrister. He discharges his duties in an exemplary manner, and his tribunal is as ,tell constituted as any Court in this country. Upon that judicW office I would devolve the duty of registering free holds, and of making any inquiry he may think necessary beyond the statement of the party, in order to ascertain whe ther tliC freehold axis e. It mat be asked, will you give to an officer of the Crown the power of making that inquiry, and of exercising that controul? I answer in the affirmative; but I propose also a check upon the discharge of his new function, in two ways. First, if the right to vote be de nied on aecolint of any legal doubt—a doubt, for instance, as to the title---then there is to be an appeal from the de cision of the Assistant Barrister to the Judge of Amite. If the doubt arise on any matter of fact—as to the value of the freehold for instance—then the freeholder is to have a right to appeal to a Jury. In every case where the As sistant Barrister refuses to admit a freeholder to registra tion, there shall he a right of appeal either to a Judge or a Jury. I had intended to state the second mode of check ing the Assistant Barrister, but perhaps a judgment upon it maybe better. formed from the contents of the Bill, and I will therefore confine myself to a statement rather eef ge neral principles than of details. The general principle will limit the frsnchise to the holder of a bona fide freehold of ten pounds a-year ; leasehold for lives is freehold, and I do not mean at all to meddle with tenures in Ireland. Ido not by freehold mean freehold in fee simple. A MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, asked why the freehold in Ireland should riot be taken in the same strict sense as in England ? Mr. PEEL—I propose that all freeholds Ira Ireland should lee put upon the same footing; and I think I could convince my Hon. Friend, that more abuses have crept into the right of voting from freeholds held in fee simple, than from any other mode of conferring that species of fran chise. Instances have occurred of mountains having been divided into freeholds ffr the purpose of giving the right to vote, while the landlord has reserved to himself the right of turbary, or some other of equal insignificance ; so that the freeholder, in fact, has no property of the slightest value, and is solely under the influence of the landlord. But Ido not propose to extend this restriction to corporate towns ; because, although changes might there lee made in the franchise, yet I do not think I should adhere to the prin eiple of perfect fairness between all hearties if I controuled the franchise in corporate towns, which arises from free hold rights, and left the rights of corporations to make freeholds untouched. If I could limit the power of cor porations to make non-resident freemen, and also im prove the franchise, I am not prepared to say that I should not consider it a great good ; but not think ing it desirable at present to enter into that great question, I did not think it fit to attempt to limit corporations in making freemen. If I did not raise the freehold to ten pounds, it might be overpowered by the making of nonresident freemen. I do not conceal from myself the objections to this part of the subject.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—Let it be recollected that I propose it as part of a great system.—(Hear, hear.)—l propose it upon the principle of mutual sacrifices ; and while the paroxysm continues, which, depeud upon it, must be produced by this change, I do not think it would be safe to leave the franchise as it stands. Independent, however, of that consideration, it affords the means of laying the foundation of a substantial yeomanry in Ire land. After the events that have recently occurred, I can vindicate the forty shilling franchise no longer as the means by which the Protestant interest may be main tained, and I do not propose to diminish any legitimate in fluence the Roman Catholics enjoy. In the southern part of Ireland, lam aware that many freeholders will be dis franchised by this measure ; but still many will remain to exercise the right, and to give effect to their impartial views and opinions. If you ask me what compensation I give to those whose existing interests will be infringed, to the Roman Catholics I reply, I give you this—l re solve the stigma of which you complain—l destroy the invidious distinction, against the continuance of which you have petitioned—l admit you and y our descendants to the honours and distinction of the State. That, I say, is ample compensation for the loss of these miserable privi leges, which practically are no privileges at all. Read the evidence, and see what is the actual condition of the pos sessor of the franchise—pressed on the one side by the landlord to regard his tempera' interest, and urged on the other by the Priest tee consult his eternal welfare. The loss of this franchise is therefore a small sacrifice indeed. lea addition, I know that I have to deal with Protestants ; and I say to the Protestant freeholder—the compensation I offer you is, that you shall not lee overborne in the exercise eef this right by the exercise of an illegitimate influence.— He will, therefore, benefit with the whole class to which he belongs. If the result shall be—as I apprehend it will —a general improvement in the condition of that country, it will be a great and happy gain. I trust it is not ne cessary for Inc to apologise to the House for the tedious details through which I have to lead them. (Hear.) — There yet remains to be considered that branch of the ques tion which relates tee Ecclesiastical Securities. The first question that arises as to them is, in what light is it pro posed to consider the Church of Rome ? Is it desirable to incorporate it with the State, to cherish and promote it ; or is it desirable to leave it on its own footing, and consider it in the light of other Dissenters from the Established Church ? The nature of the securities must depend on the principle we intend to adopt in this respect. lam not in sensible to the arguments used in favour of the incorpora tion of the Roman Catholic Church with the State, and the advantages to be derived from making a peculiar pro vision for the Ecclesiastics of the Roman Catholic faith. I know that many great men have decided in favour of this provision for the Roman Catholic Clergy ; and particularly that Lord Castlereagh thought that the proposed admission of the Roman Catholics to the full enjoyment of civil righte should be accompanied with a provision in the nature of an ecclesiastical security. But if these securities were to be made the subject of negociation and of compact with the Court of Rome, I should see the greatest, difficulties in approaching such a result. I do think there would be something revolting to the feeling of the people, and the independence and pride of this country, if the King of England were to go to any foreign Ecclesiastical Court for the purpose of determining on what footing his own subjects should stand—(cheers.) — We cannot approach the Court of Rome fur such a purpose without admitting it to be an authority in our le gislation, and also admitting its right to withhold its assent from our measures if it should think proecr. I take it that on that ground alone this House will think that a negotia tion would be incompatible with the dignity and independ ence of England ; and this is I consider the great objection to any attempt to provide securities in this respect. I must also say, that the incorporation of the Roman Catholic Church with the State, by giving the Crown a controul over the Catholic priesthood, through a provision for their maintenance, would be more repugnant to the feelings of the country than any measure that could be devised.— (Cheers.)—Nor am I at all sure that it would be', accept. able to the Roman Catholics of Ireland in their present temper. Besides, if we had any measure of that nature, it would Inc a departure from that great principle which in blll es the inviolability of the doctrines and discipline of the Church of England. If lam asked whether I have any securities in the way of stipend, or interference, or con trout, I will say at once that I hare none.—(Cheers.) —l cannot propose an incorporation of the Roman C itholic Religion with the State, ner to give it a qualified es tablishment. I defer to those feelings which have been excited with regard to the religious part of the ques tiou. I say at once that ray proposition is, that the Roman Catholic Religion shall not be considered as on the foot ing of an establishment, but of dissent.—(Hear, hear.) — At the same time some regulations on this subject, it ap pears to his Majesty's Government, they are entitled and called upon to introduce. In all former Bills for the Re lief of the'Roinan Catholics, a power has been reserved to the Crown to exercise, which has familiarly been called and generally known ley the name of the Veto ; and there has also been a provision made to inspect the intercourse of the See of Rome with the Roman Catholic church of Ireland. With respect to the veto, I may remark that it has been a subject of protracted discussion, and has excited feelings on each side of considerable vehemence. I think it quite unnecessary myself ; for I believe, on the one hand, that the possession of the veto would be a very inconsider- able power ; and on the other h •fid, that there was very little probability of its icing ;bused. My objection tea the veto 11, that it woolf he the coinmenceinent of a qti t iieed establishment of the Roman Catholic Church. My dlijettdlan ie, net that lc ::;..'" 1 be 4". unreasonable ddemandein the pail o f the C r ow n , h u t ma: %r° " a " , Oreseifted to 0 a V e t of n lin of those who are can- Clidataa fe? . this' ui; s tet:leaf curt,' atM ,thin newer of episiopacy in Ireland, WV a ..P,i 1 111111 it VEl'echit free mirselves of that respintst et,ty which would attach rri we should be pasties to the nomination, and, in fact, the commencement of a qualified establishment, which, of ;! all other things, under existing circumstances, it is de- eieable, to avoid altegether.—(Cheeres)--I abandon the Kati ail!'7,eft"er.-eafiret., bsscaure , it„ie no rational security ; and, secondly, oecauee (deer:llene trlze? Ire marls , to it which are not worth raising. It i s b e tt er th a t we shoald securities, which are manifestly of no efficacy.—(Cheers.) —lt would be ridiculous, it seems to me, to appoint a commission of Roman Catholic Prelates to certify the clia racter for loyalty of a candidate fur a See in Ireland. It world give no power to the Crown, while it would impose a responeiiiiiity on the Crown; It would be infinitely fairer not to take securities of no value. So likewise at to the examination of the intercouse with the See of Rotrie, there was no objection existing to it ; hut I confess I have no desire myself to inspect it—(hear, hear, hear),—be- Catise it may be argued that this is intercourse en tirely relating to spiritual matters ; and I suspect that, SO far from being satisfactory to this country, it would rather have the opposite effect ; as I believe that the people think the Secretary of State ought no more to interfere in the spiritual affairs of the Church of Rome than in those of the Wesleyan Methodists.—(Cheers.) — If the time should ever arrive when danger should arise, I, for, one, after the abolition of the civil disabilities of the Roman Catholics, should not hesitate a moment to come down to this House, and ask for a law to interdict any such intercourse, and to require all the correspondence. that might be passing, every document, lay or spiritual, to be submitted to the inspection of his Majesty's Govern ment. The great advantage of settling the Roman Ca tholic Question is, that we shall be enabled to take any securities that our dangers may render necessary.—(Hear.) We shall be enabled, in that case, to hold a high and inde pendent tone with respect to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, and the Legislature will deal with them es with any other class of the King's subjects. At present we cannot, because the state of things growing out of the Ca tholic Question prevents us from taking the proper steps. There are, however, some points which may be regulated, and which, in no respect will trespass on the civil privi leges or religious discipline the Roman Catholics can re quire to preserve in Ireland, and which will at the same time be satisfactory to the Protestant mind, which it is ex ceedingly desirable to conciliate. I think fit, therefore, to provide, that when a Roman Catholic shall be admitted to any corporate office, or other office in administration of the law, under no circumstances shall the insignia of office he taken to any other place of worship than one belonging to the Established Church; and that the robes of au thority shall not be exhibited in any place of religious worship but one of the Established Church. If the in signia of office be carried in religious ceremonies, they shall be carried alone to places of worship which are in the Pro testant Communion. There is a practice which has grownup in Ireland, and which has given great and Just offence : I mean that of the Roman Catholic Bishops assuming the titles that belong to those of the Established Church. I shall propose that the episcopal dignities and titles in the united Church of England and Ireland shall not be as sumed by the Roman Catholic Bishops to themselves. Bishops I call them, for Bishops they are ; and they have a right to exercise their power as such in their own church. Their ordination is no doubt valid ; but it is not seemly or decorous that the rights of the Bishops of the Established Church should be publicly and ostentatiously assumed, as their titles have been of late, by the Roman Catholic Bishops.—(Hear, hear.)—The Bill then proceeds with respect to the religious societies. Some of these have ex cited great suspicion and distrust in this country, and given great offence. I mean the extension of those reli gious orders and communities which are hound by monas tic vows, and particularly the introduction of that order which is called Jesuits. I do not think there should be a provision 0 1 this head. The parties at present here ought not to be interfered with ; but we ought to knew their number, and require to have their names registered. We are entitled to require also that those communities which ate bound by monastic vows shall not extend for the future. There will therefore be a provision against the in troduction of any extraordinary number of that class of men into this country, to which they come because other countries have set their face against them, and for that rea son they resort to this country. Other countries have taken precautions against them, and are must adapt our laws to the circumstances under which they are to exist.— While we leave to every party the full enjoyment of the privileges he now possesses on the registration of his name, I feel it right to take security against the entrance of others into this country, and against the extension of religious communities, the members of which owe no allegiance to any body but to their superior, who is resident at the Court of Rome. Their expulsion from other countries, and their arrival in England, with considerable funds, which they may apply to purchase endotvinente, have given serious alarm, and produced much uneasiness among many persons, and to my mind this appears to he a fit subject of legislation. The Bill will, therefore, take precautions against the future arrival of Jesuits in this country, and require the registration of those here at pre sent. It will also prevent the extension of those religious orders which are bound by monastic vows, and which are in no way necessary to the free exercise of the Roman Ca tholic Religion.—( Hear. )----1 have not intentionally omitted any of the provisions which the Bill contains. I shall pro pose, in the next Committee, to move a Resolution, which will he the foundation of tie Bill for the admission of the Roman Catholics to their civil privileges, and which will make the other regulations I have detailed. At the saute time I may state, that after the Resolution is passed I shall move fur leave to bring in a separate Bill, the object of which will be the regulation of the elective franchise. Thus, Sir, I have disclosed the principle of this measure. I trust it will be calmly and dispassionately considered, and in the spirit in which we ought to proceed, namely, with a desire to put a safe and satisfactory end to this question. I.et us all bear in mind what the consequence will be if this Bill should be rejected.—(Loud cries of hear, hear.)—This measure applies equally and impartially to all. I will not pretend that specious or even solid objections may not be made to it, as they may be made to any measure of an extensive and complicated nature ; but depend on it, we never should settle the Catholic Question, if every Mems her be determined that' it should be settled according to his own views.—(Cheers.)—l ask, whether there is not a chance, by uniting the Protestant mind, that we shall find new and efficient securities against any dangers that can arise ? I ask the Roman Catholics themselves, whe ther the concessions which are rendered necessary on their part are to be compared with the sacrifices made by those who are unwilling to consent to a departure from laws which have given—it is in vain to deny it— an exclusive character to our Legislature and Govern.. ment ? God grant that the sanguine expectations of those who for years have embraced this question may be fulfilled ! God grant that the removal of the disabili ties of the Roman Catholics may assuage the civil con tentions of the country, and that, by a free intercourse, their mutual jealousies may be removed ; and instead of looking on each other as adversaries and opponents, they may, by mixing in competition, join in carrying the pri vileges of their free state, and learn to respect and value each other, and find out qualities which yet are actually unknown to either. lam not so sanguine in my expecta tions as to the future; but I have no hesitation in saying, that I do believe that the adjustment of this question, in the manner I propose, will give better securities to the Protestant interests and the Protestant establishments than the present state of things, and avert the dangers which are impending and immediate.—(Cheers.)—What motive can I have for expressing the opinions 1 do, but my honest conviction of their truth ?—(Cheers.)—With the information of which I am officially itt possession, with the reasons I have, after daily watching the progress of events—which, as was said by Mr. Grattan, "like the mist at the heels of the countryman, gradually en velopes one object after another,"---what motive can I have but one of an honest and legitimate nature ? I koow I could have taken a more popular and pa latable course--a more popular among the friends with whom I have been lung connected—a more palatable to the constituents whom I have lost. " His ego gratiora dictu alia esse scio ; sed me Vera pro gratis loqui, et si meum ingenium non moneret, necessitas cogit. Vellem equidern robis placere, sed multo malo YOB salvos etse qualecunque erga me animo futuri estis.—(Loud cheers.) I have consulted and acted for the best for the Protestant establishments. This is my defence to the accusations brought against me ; this is my consolation for the sacri fices I have made, and this shall be my revenge,—(Loud cheers.)--I trust that the turbid waters of strife will sub side; but if these expectations should be disappointed, if struggles and contentions should still take place, if there should be difficulties before us, let us reflect whether they will not arise out of the artificial distinctions arising front unequal privileges. But if there should be something in the character of the Roman Catholic religion which will not be content with equal rights nor any thing short of supremacy, yet I am satisfied with the change. If the battle 10:st lie fought, it must now be for other objects._ Let the worst cone to the worst, the contest must now, I repeat, he for o•ber objects and on other grounds. The contest teili he, 110 t far all equiliV of civil rights, hut fur the predominance of au intolerant religion.—(Cheers.) We 1440 fight the battle with greater advantage. If the „,, t „,.pait.cons should be realised—if th e more - • I •••o ; -owe‘ces to come should turn formidamb • nut . hipeven • " s h ou ld Ftrugje, with a atm]. s, ,• Cud world, against the sympathy of aih•the tr , ? • Fe.ple Le tninance' or an. i oant religion.---.o.:27 r '' ) ! We shall enter into the contest with the advantage of having dissolved the moral alliance vs now exists among the Roman Catholics, and with the countenatlt'' tbsse au thorities who have, fir so long a period, opposed this tion. They will be transferred to our side, and I have not nAnbt that in that contest, it it should ever happen, we snail (elects), : the unanimous feeling of this country, as it is dcroonst . :atSdhiy those petitions which have been presented against the measair:'.', and,itt which find its real security.—(Loud cheers.)—By ih2 ii 7 i s f is o f orthodoxy and dissent, and with the assistance of the voice of Scotland, and with other aid, if it were neeessary, we should he cheered by the friendship of every free State, and have tll6 good wishes and prayers of every freeman, in whatever clime, and tinder whatever form of government or religion. The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amidst loud cheering for some minutes. The SPEAKER read the motion, - which wag, that " this House do resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, with a view to consider the Laws imposing Civil Disabilities on his M jesty's Roman Catholic subjects." Mr. PANKES said, the Right Hon. Gentleman, in the course of his able speech, had appealed strongly to the House; and had stated, as a preliminary reason, that things could not remain as they stood in their present situation. The Right Hon. Gentleman had also desired to know what reasons they would recommend whose sentiments were in contradiction to his ?. The Right Hon. Gentle- man asked what answer they could give? He (Mr. Bankes) would reply to him, that he had himself fur nished an answer ; for in the discussions that had taken place during the last ten or fifteen years, the Right Hon. Gentleman had, over and over again, sheaved the danger and injustice of admitting the Catholics to political power. If he (Mr. Banke) answered the Right Hon. Gentleman, then it would be from his own speeches; and especially, in those he had delivered in reply to Mr. Canning. The object of this House should he to maintain the Protestant Establishment, unalterable and unimpaired. Before be (Mr. Bankes) entered on an examination of the provisions of the Bill, he would recur to some observations madelby the Right Hon. Gentleman, with regale' to the Catholic Association. For his part, when he heard the dangers admitted to exist, by the Right Hon. Gentleman, he could not help doubting whether those who had brought us into such difficulties might not be blind guides.— (Hear, hear.)--The Right Hon. Gentleman admitted that the Catholic Association had assumed a dangerous tone. He recollected that, in 1525, a Bill was brought in by his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the -Ex chequer, to suppress that Association ; but the Crown Lawyers pronounced it to be completely inefficient, and no proceedings were ever taken under it. What then was the duty of Government? They admitted the danger that resulted from the acts of the Catholic Association ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman had been telling an old story, which, after all, afforded no reason why the Asso ciation was not suppressed. He would refer to the speeches of Mr. Canning and Lord Plunkett—two persons quite unexceptionable as to their opinion on this question. He was glad a Bill had been carried to put down the Catholic Association ; for many persons believed that it was an ob stinate and factious body. It was contended that this was a purely political question, but he denied it—it was a mixed question, for it was impossible to separate its features. The Constitution of the country made a dif ference, and he was, therefore, entitled to say that the question was religious as well as political.—(Cries of " order, order !" and " hear, hear !")—After the Catholics should once be admitted into power, there would no longer be any security fur the Government. With regard to the ulterior object of the measure—(here the confusion was so great, that the Hon. Gentleman's voice became ire audible).—Could there be the least doubt that this measure had been procured through the exertions of the Catholic Association ? There had been a great clamour made by that body, that the Catholics of Ireland were net repre sented, but had that been established as a real grievance? With respect to the forty shilling freeholders.—(Here again it was impossible to follow the Hon. Gentleman, owing to the confusion which prevailed in the House.) — The alteration which was to be made as to the amount that was to give a freeholder the right of voting appeared to him to be but a small compensation for the other features of the measure. Mr. O'NEIL then rose to address the House, but the confusion still continued so great as occasionally to inter rupt the Hon. Gentleman. He said that an observation had escaped the Right Hon. Gentleman in the course of his speech—he trusted that it had only escaped him, be cause it appeared to convey a reproach to those who had voted on the same side as that which the Right Hon. Gentleman had hitherto supported. The Right Hon. Gentleman, as it seemed to him, had brought a charge against them of something like desertion, because it had on former occasions been chiefly left to him to address the House in opposition to the Catholic Claims. He could tell the Right Hon. Gentleman, that the reason why that had happened was, because he had been looked upon as the undeviating advocate of the Protestant cause, and, because, under those circumstances, other Hon. Gentlemen had felt that they were nut justified in thrusting themselves for ward ; and fur himself, he begged to say, that if he had not come forward at an earlier period, it was not from any indifference to the cause, but from a consciousness of his own incapability to do justice to it. The speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman had in same degree surprised him, for he certainly had expected to have heard him pronounce something like an enlogium on die great architect of the measure—on the Minister who had frainesl and put to gether this Bill, that was to astonish all the world ; but the Right Hon. Gentleman, instead of that, had contented himself with introducing the measure on the narrow ground of policy and expediency,—(Great laughter,)—disdaining the more noble ground of liberality and concession. The House would allow him to remind them of the sentiments which had formerly fallen from the Learned and Noble Lord (Lyndhurst), and still more of the words of the Noble Duke who was now at the head of the Government, in which he had said that no doubt could be entertained, from the present feelings of the Roman Catholics, that if they were admitted to political power, their first exertions would be to restore their religion to its original supremacy, and to obtain possession of that property which had been wrested from them at the time of the Reformation.— (Hear, hear.)—Bus in spite of this opinion of the Noble Duke, which had been expressed in 1819, he did not find that there was any clause introduced in the Bill which had just been proposed to the House that was calculated to guard against any such attempt.---(Hear, hear.) But this was not the only authority he had. In May, 1317, tile Right Honouradde Gentleman himself had made use of this language —(Considerable confusion. )--He really must claim the attention of the House; he only asked them to listen to one word from him. His motive for alluding to these former speeches of the Right Honourable Gentleman was that he might afford him an opportunity of giving some answer to them, for be must confess that as yet he had heard no reason sufficient to explain the awful dilemma in which the country was placed.—(A laugh.)— The Right Hon. Gentleman, in the speech to which he al luded, asked whether the House did not think that the Ca tholics would aspire to the establishment of their own. re ligion; and he (Mr. O'Neil) hoped that it would be con ceded that the Catholics of 1829 had shown no such to leration or temper that greater trust was to be put in them than in the Catholics of 1817. Would not, the Right Hon. Gentleman asked—would not the Catholics aspire to the establishment of their religion in all its ancient splen dour ? If he were placed in their situation, he should an swer for them that he would. If then, this was the case, had not he (Mr_ O'Neil) a right to question the policy of admitting those into power who entertained views hostile to the Constitution ? The Right Hon. Gentleman now, however, contended that the safety of Ireland required that the professors of all religions should be admitted to a participation of equal rights.—(lncreased confusion. )—He intreated the attention of the House. He was not forcii.g on the House his own sentiments, but stating the words of the Right lion. Gentleman, whose language they would not hear now. —(A laugh.) Supposing at any time it should occur that they should have a King who, though ap parently Protestant, was secretly a Catholic—the conse quence would he, that he would select a Catholic Minister, who in his turn would select a party on whom he could rely, and gradually make them amends for their long ex clusion from the honours and privileges of the State. Ile begged to ask the Right Hon Gentleman—he would appesl to him—whether he had seen a Resolution of the Catholic Association ; and if he had, whether be supposed that the proposed measure was one which would tend to tranquil lize Ireland ? On the 10th of December, last year, a Re -1 solution to the Catholic Association had been unanimously agreed to, " That the best security of the Government was to be found in the happiness and freedom of the people ; and that they were ready to give in return for Emancipa tion, the security of their oaths of allegiance ; but at the same time they were bound to declare, that any conditions annexed to the restoration of their rights would only tend to the increase of the danger." There was also another Mons. Now he would ask Nyhrtli,r tars Right Hen. ( - sees. self-dissolved, hut, as he believed, changes of opinion were to take place, that P stone of where Resolution which hal been unanimously passed by that now ought not to have considered it was just as Right wh laugh,)—to the effect that any Bill ia f l n e r lY E e n x iat t c in ip g a b ti o o ' l l i y , — ac (a - - Right Hon. G:itleman's colleagues in the Cabinet who o h ni e er w , m o il r d de n r o . t )— be H to on g o o u sz b er le to Ge t n li t e le s m id a e n of lndb hostility, i ty fr , ie t n h d a s n shouldtlat th a e ha ß n i d g o h n t companied with an eueroachment ( n th e r i g ht s o f th e w ere f r i en dl y to conceseion, might have been induced f l o -i r e t3 b - e s g l e ' i t i ! i s i l n t g h e :itfreeh older .tc)li — of ( ( tl . :e m fl i i i ' ( i i ( u m se — ; put down by eletuour—(hear;and great laughter)—he was those sentiment, from mere policy, there an independent Mami:E., and not as the tool of a- they maintain ? He put °nom it to the Right II -asll e Lord.—(::bouts of laughter. )--The R eso l u ti on wen t on G e ntl eman whether some of those persons might no t to say, that in such a case every p ar i s h wou ld assem bl e an d h ave b een persua d e d to change their opinions, and whether •lermunce an attack on the ri g ht s o f men w h ose const i tu - it wou ld not t h us have been ' possible to form a Cabinet reis constituted ' • ' • tional den,— 'then moy crimes ; but at the satisfactory to the feelings of the people of England and crow them with same time they cams .. contempt any a tt emp t united in their opposition to what is called the Catholic t r e. Meddle with the forty-s,`..' l ling __. freeholders. Now he Claims? In his .opinion, it would have been much wished td .kstowhow the ferty-sliiiiM: freeholders would more satisfactory to the friends of the Right Hon. Gen teel, when they fo;j'AM' that by this Act their .7:;abours, Venter], and redounded much more to his honour and to who happened to be a little fisher than themselves, wC his reputation for consistency, if, instead of striking his elevated to a superior rank—he wiend to put that to the coLosre- to the enemy, he had raised them in support of comideration of Government, and he widred to ask the the cause he had always advocated and supported. He House whether the forty-shilling freeholders, ow fesding was confident that the Protestants could have carried any ilietiis'il4est.dePrived of their elective franchise, would trot cause under such a leader.—Meer, and laughter.) It muse all their es'.e4tio4s to bully, intimidate, and force the had been contended that they were bound to make con -101. freeholders to vote e'sdlsey pleased ? He looked upon cessions, in order to avoid the horrors of civil war ; but it that England bad been unfaitiY dealt with in this ques- he conceived that those who made these assertions were tion; the country was not fairly represented; end he dared unacquainted- with the strength and resources of those the Ministers to a dissolution--(Laughter, and iceae . ,) whose interests they abandoned. Independent of all phy- They knew they could not carry the measure if the present deal power, there was a moral force sufficient for the Parliament were to be dissolved.—(More laughter.)—He prezetvetion of their dominion ; but by this unhappy ex said, in the name of the people of England—(Laughter—in pedient, which they were about to adopt, they would which the conclusion of the Hon. Gent's sentence was lost.) be driven to the sad alternative of choosing, not between He said that the Perliametrt of 1820 had been elected in the evils of concession and the horrors of civil wse, the understanding that the Cabinet was so constituted that hut between the chance of insurrection to-day, in the Catholies would never come in ; confidence in the Ad- order that they may fall into the infinitely greater ministration of Lord Liverpool was the basis of the Parlia- l evils of civil war to-morrow.—(licar, hear, hear.)—As meat in 1826, and he therefore contended that a dissolu- his Hon. Friend, the Member for Dorsetsbire (Mr. tion was the only fair way of erriving at the sense of the Bankes'e, had jtustly and truly observed, they were post country. poning resistance toe day, in order that they may come to On the Hon. Gentleman sitting down, relr; TRANT and the consideration of the propriety of that resistance under Sir 11. lisotes presented themselves to the House . . The much more disadvantageous circumstances hereafter. He cry was very general for the latter ; but NI not accuse his Majesty's Iliinisfens of being unwilling Mr. THANT addressed the House, and said that his to matte sacrifices, nor did he undervalue those which had feelings on the subject were so deeply rooted that all the been made he , the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) pet eloquence of his Right Hon. Friend's four-hours' speech senally ; but he contended that his Majesty's Govern meet had not been able to shake his opinion. He wished to had miscalculated their own strength, and undervalued tlie examine the arguments which his Right Hon. Friend had force of public opinion, lelren they consented to give way advanced ; and, in the first place, with respect to his own to what they called expediency. The Noble Duke at the peculiar situation, the House had beers told that his Right head of his Majesty's Government, who had been so•much lion. Friend had felt his situation so peculiarly irksome, in the habit of wielding with skill the energies of brute in having to advocate the Protestant cause almost alone in force, did not seem to him to display so much skill in con that House, that he had almost resolved to resign his ceiving the post-t or directing the force which arises from office. He (lid not think that the defence of the Protestant public opinion. (Pleat, and laughter. ) The Hon. Mem cause had been so entirely left in the bands of his Right ber for Durham (Mr. M. A. Taylor) had, on it former Hon. Friend as he seemed to suppose, though it certainly occasion, ridiculed the idea of the admission of half a doterr was true that speaking was much more of a trade on that Catholic Peers making any difference in the Protestant Con (the Opposition) side of the House than on the other.—(Loud stitution of this country. It was not, howettr, this piebald groaning, which lasted fur some seconds.) At all events, in mixture of a few Catholics with Protestants which was to all the discussions that he bad witnessed on the question, be dreaded, so much as the power which the Minister' there were at least three speakers to one in favour of the would obtain of making as many Peers from the class of she Catholic Claims. (Cheers.) On one occasion, in the course Catholics as ire thought proper. (Hear, and laughter.) Tim of a former discussion, he had riseninine times. (Laughter.) lion. Member concluded midst visible marks of impa- Still he could not see that the state of the Cabinet tience in the House, by declaring that if the Catholics were was such as to call for the present measure ; and he thought that he was warranted in conclu,ling, that his Right. Hon. Friend's dilemma was not so well founded as he had supposed. But . his Right Hon. Friend had said, that he would not have been able to have carried and• strong measure for the suppression of the Catholic Associa tion. He did not see how that could be. Would not all those who had voted against Catholic Emancipition last year have voted for the putting down of the Association, besides those who were in office ? He would then ask, what became of the plea of his eight Honourable Friend, as to the extreme necessity arising out of a divided Cabinet, and of an unmanageable Houseof Commons? For his own part he could not see that his Right Hon. Friend need have deserted the cause of Protestanism. He did not in- tend to make use of his Right Hon. Friend's speech, which he had in his hand (a laugh)--and which Le might also say he had by heart. He must, however, be allowed to say, that it was a speech unanswerable even by his Right Hon. Friend himself; and by that speech he (Mr. Peel) was so screwed—so nailed down to the cause, that he defied him to make a reply. He conceived all securities to be mere delusions, calculated to postpone, but not to avert the evils of concession ; and he was convinced that if the Govern- meat persisted in thus flying in the face of the people of this country, under the pretence of pacifying Ireland, they would inflame the Protestants of England into a much snore dangerous discottent. The Hon. Member conclud ed by declaring, that if the Catholics must be represented, and if they Inuit be admitted into Parliament, he would say, let them have a Parliament of their own in Ireland ; for he would much rather consent to that, even if it went to the dissolution of the Union, than that Catholics should ever be permitted to sit in the Parliament of Eng land.—(Hear.) Several Members then rose together ; but the call for Sir Robert Inglis being both loud and general, the Speaker declared that Honourable Member entitled to precedence. Sir ROBERT INGLIS then rose, and commenced bs , expressing the pain he felt in being compelled to express opinions upon this question diffel eat from those now adopt. ed by his Right Hon. Friend—for he would still call him so (Mr. Peel), and by the other Members of his Majesty's Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman on this occa sion, as well as on the introduction of the Bill for the Sup pression of the Association, justified the change in his sen timents with regard to the Emancipation of the Catholics, upon the ground of expediency and sound policy. Now he conceived, with all submission, that the expediency or the policy in such a case, and under such sacrifices, ought not to be light, to form a justification for a departure from long-established principle. He was prepared, indeed, to contend that in a question so extraordinary, and involving such weighty consequences, the expediency ought to be almost approaching to overpowerin , necessity. Now the Right Hon. Gentleman bad founded b his defence of this expediency upon three different grounds, which he had successively laboured to establish. 1 he first of these was raised upon the views he took of the present situation of Ireland, both moral and political. The second was raised upon his recollection of the evils which were engendered by the formation of a Cabinet whose Members were divid ed upon the subject of concession to the Catholics. The third was founded upon a history of the difficulties the Right Hon. Gentleman himself had laboured under as a Member of the Government, in what is called leading the House of Commons; and then might be added to these grounds a fourth reason, founded or composed of the two last put together. Upon the first of the reasons for the change of the Right Hon. Gentleman's opinions, he should not at present make any very extended observations, be cause be conceived that the Right Hon. Gentleman bad used the arguments upon the state of Ireland much more forcibly and with much better effect when he urged them emancipated, all the predictions and anticipations which the Right Honourable Gentleman had formerly made or felt would be realised; but he trusted that public opinion would yet have its weit;lit, and that its voice would ulti mately be heard by the highest power in the country. Sir GEO. MURRAY—Although I have ne ,, v 5,1 ""' given any vote upon this question, or taken any the discussions which have at various periods taken place in this House, I feel it is now absolutely necessary that I should state my opinions—a necessity which I feel as an individual Member of the House—and still more as a per son holding the situation of a Minister. So strongly in deed am I convinced of that necessity, that I think it would be inconsistent with my duty if I failed to express the opinions I entertain upon this most important question. The only occasion when I gave a vote upon any question connected with the Catholics xi as in the year 1825, and upon the Bill for putting down the Association ; arid I do not hesitate to express the conviction I had then, and which I entertain to the same extent now, that the existence of such an Association, whether composed of Catholics or of Protestants, was inconsistent with the authority of any form of Government in any country.—(Hear, hear.) On the same grounds I voted during the present Session for as forming an apology for the Bill to suppress the Catholic Association. It might, however, be asked whether the mea the suppress i n g of th e l a t e Association : but with this ad ditional motive, that I conceived nothing could so much impede or prejudice the discussions upon the measure now before us, and which all persons admit to be calculated to produce such important benefits to the country, as the ex istence of such an Association while those discussions were proceeding. Although, however, I gave my vote to put down tke Association of 1825, I did not take any part in the discussions which afterwards took place upon the Ca tholic Question. I confess, however, that I had a strong feeling in favour of the claims of the Catholics; but I found the question surrounded by so many difficulties, and saw so little prospect of the contending parties coming to any satisfactory conclusion, that I abstained front taking any part, either by my voice or my vote, in the discussions which followed. Soon after the passing of the Bill of 1825, I was appointed to the chief command of the army in Ireland. This appointment, of course, brought me more closely in connexion with the people of that country ; but having, in addition to the duties of Military Commander, being called upon fora short period to fill the situation of one of the Lords Jus tices, in the absence of the Lord Lieutenant, the situation of the country was brought still more clusely under my notice i❑ this double capacity. The result of my observations was a thorough conviction that the coun try had arrived at a state in which it was impossible it could remain, and that tie Government must either ad vance or recede from the course it had pursued. I say impossible to remain, because all the ties of society were beginning to be loosed, and the bonds which bound man to his fellow man on the point of being broken.—(llear.)--. Back I knew it was impossible we could go, so as to esta blish any thing which would merit the name of civilised society. We could indeed, I admit, have formed a state of society founded upon penal statutes, and supported by the sword or the bayonet, but we could form none which would bear the slightest analogy with any thing known or ima gined under the British Constitution.—(Hear.) —l would here beg to offer a few remarks upon the observations of those who declare we are going to destroy the Constitu tion. 'I hey who form the opinion that the result of this measure will be the destruction of the Constitution, seem to have taken up the notion that the principle of the Con • stitution is a principle of exclusion. That is not my notion of it.—(llear.)—On.the contrary, my opinion is, that the object of the Constitution is to diffuse its blessings to all classes of the community.—(Cheers.)—lt is an ar gument much relied upon by the opponents of the pro posed measure of concession, that the present proposal of Government is an infringement on the Constitution of sure of Emancipation now in contemplation could be said to be any remedy for those evils which the Right Hon. Gentleman so eloquently described ? Without saying one word upon the subject of the Association, he might assert with confidence, that as those ills were not caused by the denial of emancipation, so they would not be removed by any plan of concession which might be proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman, or any other person. lie would call upon the Right lion. Gentleman and the House, to look back with him at the history of Ireland, and to point out any period in which the unhappy inhabitants of that coun try were not living in a state of social misery ;—(flear, and loud laughter)—he repeated in a state of social misery and actual war—(a laugh)—under every form of Govern ment. At all times—before the distinctive names of Ca 1688. But, Sir, I will not consent to date the Constitu. tion of this country from the year 1688.—(Hear.)-1 hold . . that at that period the best principles of the Constitution were upheld, improved, and amended. But the Const:tu• tion itself is referred to a much earlier date—to the law, and institutions which had been established by Catholic hands, and cemented by Catholic blood.—(Cheers.)—lt has been argued by the Hon Bart. (Sir R. Inglis), that at some remote period disturbance has prevailed in Ireland ; that dissension now prevails there, and, therefore, that dis turbances shall continue. So then we are to infer from the Hon. Baronet, that discord is to be the perpetual des tiny of Ireland, in all future, as it has been in all past pe riods of her existence. Is it that there is any thing in the peculiar climate of Ireland, or in the brave and gene rous character of her inhabitants, that should render her impregnable to improvement, and incapable of that tholic and Protestant were known there—before even the rule of England was felt in the country—the people were discontented and turbulent, anti party spirit and private dissension produced misery and crime. In later times, and referring to these periods more immediately within the memory of those he addressed, were there not Peep of Day Boys, and Defenders, and united Irishmen, and Sha navests, and llockites, and various other parties of insur rectionists, disturbing the peace and checking the pros perity of Ireland, not upon any question of concession or not concession, but upon the same general principles of lawless violence, and habitual turbulence. It was to the suppression of societies of this kind, and to the punishment of the offenders, or the removal of the cause which gave rise to the offence, that the attention of Government ought to have been directed ; and if new powers were required for that purpose, ha contended they were not to be sought for in a measure which not only trenched upon the liberties of tranquillity and civilization which England enjoys, and which Ireland has an equal right to, ,and possesses equal means to arrive at the enjoyment of? I see nothing in the state of Ireland which should exclude her from the full possession of those advantages which my own country (Scotland) has recently reaped from the advances which she has made in the cultivation of the arts of civilization. _-(Hear.) And from the opportunities which I have had of forming an opinion during the period that I held a mi litary command in that country, I am convinced that there is no nation which is more eminently capable than Ireland of deriving advantage from the cultivation of arts, science, and manufactures. It only requires the encouragement of a liberal Government :to afford her the opportunity of realizing all there advantages ; aye, and in a degree, to.), beyond the conception of the Honourable Baronet (Sir Robert Inglis) to form an estimate.—(Laughter and cheers.) The great evil of a divided Cabinet was another the Protestants of England, but even went far towards the total overthrow of the - Constitution itself. Is that Con stitution there had been no alteration since the year 1688, when it was finally settled i❑ its present form ; and he re peated, that before they were called upon to make such an alarming change in our institutions, it ought to be proved that Parliament hal been applied to and refUsel its sanc tion to those measures of coercion or improvement which he was prepared to prove might have been applied with success to the evils the Right Hon. Gentleman described. So much for the Right Hon. Gentleman's reasons, de duced from the state of Ireland.—( Hear, and a laugh.) lie would now take leave to say a f•nr words upon the state merits with respect to dissensions in the Cabinet. The Right Hon. lkntleman, when be declared his determina tion to support concession, asserted that his ',pinions re mained unchanged upon the subject of the danger of that concession—that, in fact, he retained all his former °in point on which much stress had been laid. Upon this subject it is only necessary to refer to the brilliant example of my Right lion. Friend, who has wisely changed his • 'urse of action, when he conceived that change was con stent with the service of his country.—(Hear, bear.)- 1 at his change of opinion to that side towards which I have always inclined.—(A slight laugh.)—ln his change of conduct I rejoice, and I hail it as the best pledge that can be given of the satisfactory character of the intended measure. It is the best pledge that can be given, not only on account of the sources and opportun ties ot knowledge an in - formation which he has peculiarly possessed, but also became his past conduct o❑ this question gives assurance that he will not consent to any alteration inconsistent with the due pro tection of those institutions of his country which it has been the main object of his politic,l life to cheti.li and preserve.—(Hear, hear.)—The measure is the result of the deliberations of a united Cabinet.—( Hear, hear ;