The Sun. — London, England, 1829-02-04 00:00:00

• - t • - a concordat, the answer would not be that attributed to the Holy See id the printed report of-l4lr. O'Con nell's speech. Whilst the law ex►sts „which -prohi bits all correspondence on the part of Government with the Holy Sec, it is difficult to believe that an English M'nister would make a proposal to that ef fect, and utterly incredible that_ the Holy See would in that case, allege any other reason for declining a treaty than the existence of such a law. WhaLmight be done in the event of a legal com munication between the two Governments being established, I cannot pretend to predict; but I know sufficient of the principles of ;the Catholic church, and have sufficient confidence in the wisdom of his Holiness, to be.satistied, that should any treatyhere after be set on foot, he would be found at averse to invade the temporal rights of his Britannic Majesty, as to betray the spiritual interests of the Catholic church in his Majesty's dominions. I know not whether I have said sufficient to con vince you that Mr. O'Connell has been led into mis take respecting the declaration attributed to his Holiness ; it not, I can only regret that my ignorance respecting the details of the law of prcemunire not allow me to run the risk of saying more ; I am not, however, without hopes that Mr. O'Connell, upon examining his information, will discover the mistake into which he has been led, and himself correct it. - :remain,. my dear Sir, P. A. BAINES, 8p.,0f Sign.. The Right Hon. R. Wilmot llorton, &c. 111.--31 R. WILMOT HORTON ' S SECOND LETTER. • Rome, Dec. 15, 1828., My dear Sir,—l am extremely gratified to find that it has been in your power to afford so satisfite-: tory a correction of the statement made by Mr. O'Connell, to which I called your attention in my letter of the 10th inst. There is, however, another statement made by that gentleman, or at least an opinion very unequivocally expressed, which appears to me 'calculated, if not contradicted, to produce the most inconvenient consequences. This statement or. opinion is evidently founded upon the entire mis conception which pervaded his mind in the former instance. lam equally anxious that the exact truth should transpire in this second instance. The state ment is as follows : In Galignani's Messenger of the 15th of No vemt,er, I find the record of a late meeting of the British Catholic Association, from whence it,ap pears that the' Duke of Norfolk had expressed him self in -the following terms :—" That he was fa vourable to firm language being made use of in the petition of the British Catholics, but he trusted no language would be made use of which would imply that they rejected any measures which the Govern ment might offer them, because accompanied with securities. Such was his opinion, and he lied arrived at it after mature deliberation." On that occasion, it appears, Mr. Eneas Macdonnell (whom Mt. O'Connell has' subsequently described as the agent of the Catholic Association in England) pro-. tested agrinst this doctrine of the Duke of Norfolk in the following terms:— " One word as to unconditional emancipation. He would declare his sentiments on that subject succinctly and plainly, in justice to those by whom he had been sent, and whom he represented; and if' they should be dissatietied with his conduct, they might instantly get rid of him. He should, how ever, consider the Irish Catholics as traitors to their country, and acting dishonourably to themselves, if, after what had taken place, they would consent, to receive any concession short of full and uncondi tional emancipation. Ile considered emancipation, with any securities that had hitherto been men tioned, a greater calamity than their present condi tion; and he should feel it his duty, however pain ful, if such a measure were proposed, not only to abstain from being a party to it, but to get rid of emancipation, securities, and alb" With reference to these conflicting opinions, Mr.. O'Connell is recorded to have expressed his senti ments in the following words, in his speech which appears in the Galignani of the 25th instant : " nottAIia—CATHOLIC ASSOCIATION. " A very nunagretts meeting of the Society took place on Thursday ; John O'Connell, Esq. in the chair. " Mr. O'Connell, M.P., rose to propose the thanks of the Association to Mr. Eneas Macdonnell, for his fearless and uncompromising conduct upon all occasions in which the interests of his country were at stake, and particularly for his conduct at the last meeting of the English Catholics. He also begged leave to express his total dissent from the Duke of Norfolk, and those of the Catholics who were favourable to securities." . do not wish to quote certain other expressions which Mr. Connell employed upon that occasion„ in support of his opinion ; nor should I have thought myself justified in referring to this difference of opi nion between two persons, who each had a perfect right to maintain whatever opinion he chose, had not Mr. O'Connell availed himself, on that occa sion, of the authority of an opinion, to which he appears to me not to have beer► in the slightest de g . ee entitled. He says, in his speech already quoted in my first letter, " That the best reply and admonition which he can offer to the Duke of Norfolk and the security men in England, is the answer which the Pope had given to the British Government." And he doea not explain whether lie has quoted the whole of that presumed answer, or only a part. If there be a clear meaning, capable of being con veyed in language, it is here implied that a certain answer, made by the Pope, the father of the Catho lic Church (as he is described by. Mr. O'Connell), contained expressions of. admonition against any Catholic, English or Irish, who might be prepared to receive emancipation coupled with any security whatever. Now, if this assertion or implication of Mr. O'Connell remains unexplained, it will be be lieved, or at least it may be believed, that the Pope bad pronounced an admonition, or at least was pre pared to pronounce one, upon this declared opinion of the Doke of Norfolk. I do not doubt, nor haire lever doubted for a moment, that the Pope; in the event of any appeal being made to him, would be prepared to object to any civil measure of emancipa tion, which should be accompanied with securities trenching in the slightest degree upon the religious faith of a Roman Catholic. But that he should ever have pronounced an opinion against all propo sitions of emancipation, unless nneonditional—that is, if accompanied by any security whatever—or against those who were prepared to entertain such propositions, is an assertion which 1 do not believe; on the contrary, I believe this assertion, or impli cation, by Mr. O'Connell, to have originated from that mistake which you have already corrected. You are aware that I ion personally interested in the elucidation of this point, as I have myself sug gested u security, not treoching,iii any respect, upon the faith of a Roman Catholic, or in any incouve uient degree, upon the full sum of his civil rights; while, at the game time, it was calculated specifi cally to obviate the main apprehension entertained by Protestants, as the possible result of the removal of Roman Catholic disahilities. If this opinion, which Mr. O'Connell implies to be that of the Holy See, be really so, it is clear that every attempt of this nature to settle the question mast be more than fret Hess. I had considered myself as safe in the suggestise of leis security on Catholic. grounds, under the au thority of Mr. Grattan, whaa.2 name will ever be dear to Ireland, and who thus expressed himself in the Imperial Parliament, is May, 1817 " With respect to safeguards, I think it is clapr that there is no man, who when he procures rights which he considers as inestimable, ,but ought to give those securities which, while they do nor trench upon the Catholic faith, afford stfength and security a the Protestant religion," Jf Mr. Grattan had believed that these senti ments, so forcibly expressed by him, had been con trary, witch less in opposition, to those of the See of Rome, he would have known that it was useless in any practical point of view to have pronounced them. I shall, ,therefore, repose with confidence v pon these opinions of kir. Grattan, until I have reason to believe that the Holy See (the only Ca tholic authority to whose commentary in proof of such authority I should listen as a legislator) had ever declared against them. I hope I have succeeded in distinctly: brinking before you th*9 poiuts upon which` I am desirous of information, so us to enable you not .only tonsatisfy my mind upon the subject, which is of little im portance, but also to satify the minds of millions, who are watching with awful anxiety the course of events I,vhieb have an influence upon the Catholic question. You will, however, be good enough to understand, that I request .this information solely on account of the introduction by Mr. O'Connell of the name and authority of the Pope, in support of his own repro bation of the opinions of the Duke of Norfolk- For I should say, that I have rarely met with any senti ments upon the subject of securities more satisfac torily expressed than those which Mr. O'Connell himself entertains, as appears from another, part of the' same speech. He says (vide Galignani, of the 25th of November :)-- " If any tangible proposition be offered for quiet ing the apprehensions of the most susceptible of my Protestant countrymen, there is not one amongst them who will be more ready to argue the question with calmness and consideration - than myself." I confess that there does not appear to me to be any other meaning capable of being attached to this phrase, than that of being ready to argue calmly and considerately any proposition in the way of " seen- . city," as it is popularly called, which does not trench on the religion of the Catholics. • I remain most faithfully yours, The Right Rev. Dr. Baines; &c. -R. W. HORTON. RAINJLS'S SECOND LETTER. Rome, Dec. 17, 1828. My dear Sir,—You seem to apprehend that the infer ences drawn by Mr: O'Connell, from the alleged answer of the Pope to the supposed application of the British Go- Vernment,.may create a belief in England, that the opinion expressed by the Duke of Norfolk in the British Catholic Association, on the 14th of November, had met with tl.e disapprobatidn of his Holiness, and that asimilar disappro bation awaits all those .who may share the sentiments of his Grace upon what are very vaguely and indefinitely termed securities. = With respect to the poiot ,of fact, I am perfectly con vinced that his Holiness has not pronounced in any way upon . the opinion of the Duke of Norfolk. Indeed, the supposition of his having so pronounced, weans to rest solely upon that of his having answered the British Go vernment, that he_would not treat upon the affairs of the Irish 'Catholic church, " until the Catholics of Ireland were emancip tted,"—a supposition which, I trust, I have satisfied you is wholly unfounded. I cannot persuade myself that Mr. O'Connell ever meant to insinuate, that the disapprobation of the Pope was to be apprehended by any one who merely thought, with the Duke of Notfolk, that there was no obligation of rejecting any measures of Government, merely because accompanied with securities, before he knew what those securities were. It is true that the term "securities" has hitherto almost in variably been employed, when speaking of the Catholic 'clues . tion, todesignate certain plans of vexatious if not mischievous interference with the doctrines and discipline of the Catholic church. Should the Duke of Norfolk pledge k imself to accept of such securities, theta is no doubt he would deserve the dis approbation of his Holiness ; but the term securities surely does not naturally nor necessarily imply a violation of • Catholic principle, and therefore does not necessarily in volve the disapprobation of the church. Could arrange ments be nude (I speak merely hypothetically), which leaving the Catholic Church wholly untouched, went merely to allay the groundless apprehension of Protest ants, and to secure to the Established Church of England the undisturbed possession of its rights and revenues, it would be a most injurious libel upon the head of the Ca tholic Church, to insinuate that his disapprobation was to be apprehended by any one who merely acquiesced in such arrangements. If, therefore, Mr. O'Connell is persuaded, as I presume he is, that Catholic Emancipation can be carried without even such secut sties, he is certainly right to oppose them : for they are useless at beet, and convey an imputation upon . the Catholic body which it does not deserve; bus, on the other hand, if the Duke of Norfolk is of opinion that such arrangements would forward emancipation, and thereby aim idge the perils of the country : he may, no doubt, be condemned by his fellow-subjects for an error in politics, but as he is not guilty of any offence against religion, he may ha wall assured that the Pope will be- the last person to arraign his opinions. , I shall only arid, in reference to that part of your letter, in which you allude to a certain plan of securities proposed by Yourself, in the publication which you were so obliging as to send me, that I have read that publication with great interest; and though I do not consider myself at liberty to decide how far your plan might be satisfactory to the Brltiab ausl Jrish Catholics, in a political point of view, it can hardly he ueeessary for the to remark, that there is evidently nothing in its general outline which a Catholic could object to as incompatible with his religion. Further „ mar k s on thi s su bject 1 willl reserve to a future occasion ; and, ia the mean time, I beg to subscribe myself, with great egtittaii, your very obedient and faithful servaut, I'. A. BAINES, Bishop of Siga. The Right Hon. P. 4 Wilmot Horton, &c. &e. MEETING OF THE INDCUNDENT BUR CMSSES OF COLCHESTER, (From this Colchester Courier.) On Monday the above emaual festival took place, pur ulent to public announcement, at tile Three Cups Hotel, Colchester. The assembly room was au in which the party dined, and soon after six o'clock allo, a t three hun dred burgesses sat down to the excellent entertainment pre-. pared for the occasion. F. DANIELL, Esc': in the Chair. . When the Chairman entered the room, he was aecons parried by D. ,W . Harvey, Esq. the worthy Representative of the Borough, and several other gentlemen, amongst whom we notieed the following : —Mr. Rouse, Mr. Dixon Holmes, Mr. Warmingtan, Mr. Goode, Mr. Philbrick, Jr.; Barber, Mr. Elliaden, Mr, Rlomfield, Mr. Alderman Partridge, Mr.. David Wire, Mr. John V..,eorlall, Mr. Da niell, of nergholt, and Mr. Wade. After the cloth was removed, the Cirmearaie peopnaed as a toast " The Kiiig„ with three times three." The toast was drunk arr..4t general cheering, while the band played "God save the King, Sung, by Mr. Chaplin —" The Kio, God bless him." The CuArriatan, in rising to propose the tient toast, said, that the British Constitution was so happily framed, that whilst it preserved our loyalty, it tended to the happi ness of the people: he would therefore give f 5 The People, the only true source of legitimate power." Mr. Dixon Hao.alEs after descanting.on the services In Parliament of Mr. Harvey, then observed that there was one more subject which ha walled to mention, and be did so with great delicacy, for it had neYW been touched upon at any fiorner annual Meeting ; it was the Catholic Ques tion, (10,44 j;ies of hear, hear); their worthy repre4lita, tive had never informed them of his opinion on that mo inentoua question, ae.-4 Its should have been glad if, on the present occasion, it had not hula necessary to ask for it; but such was the present state of public mind—such the agitation it caused in the country—that 4 woold be impoeeitele tinat the next Session of Parliament couln pray' over without something being done. Much was the diver sity of opinion on the subject, and no doubt it was attend ed with many difficulties, aavJ there were many honest prejudices to contend with, ;Rd he (Hr. Jj.) did not think thong prejudices could be discussed in a meeting comnituted like the pment ; lie therefore thought .(although he wish, ed to hear the opiaziop of Air. Harvey upon the subject) that their Representatiaie, ',4pr hearing the case coolly and deliberately argued in tha House oi Commons, ought to be left to the exercise of his own judgment; he ought not to he shackled in the vote he thought it his duty 0 give, for lea was sure that vote, either for or against the measure, tarnnid hp given with sincerity, and in fluenced solely 17 the evidence lYiej before Parliament; but be need not say Mr. Harvey should ;ant le shackled, he would not. He was an independent man, and waaid vote nikstrah way ha thought right, and most conducive to the welt*** a k,i; eountry. Mr. Holmes then read a resolu tion, which was rai en ho of his speech, and concluded thus. With these feelings of genes aatigfaction at his public con duct, they forbear to express theirl.pioie 4 _ 4 KJ= the great question which now agitates the public mind; laeauae feel that the diversity of opinion which exists among timid. se lves, preci a ntes them from attempting to instruct their ex ' cellent Representative. But trusting to his talents, his in tegrity, and his honour, they a./ . 4 rely on his judgment to set and vote as tke evidence and the argau.-.7.1ts produced may induce him, when the question conies hefor'e ment. And they assure him, with the most pleasurable sincerity, that they most ardently wish, and are determined to preserve that unrestrained Con4da:nee in his talents and integrity, which they have so long entertained. KEN,nkr.r. saconded the resolution, which was re ceived with general acelantatipn. The CIPPNAN then proposed •the,health of D. W. . ._ Harvey, Esq. their werthye-Representative ? .with three times three. The toast was drunk arnidst the most RA thusiastic cheers, after which . . Mr. HARVEY rose amidst continued cheering—jle had' often, he said, experienced the kindness of his constituents on occasions like they present, but never had he found it ' more indispensable to appeal to their kindness in giving him "their indulgence for a short - time .(for. short it must: be if measered by his strength) while he addressed a few worts to them in connection with the resolution which they had received, joined- as it was with his health, in a manner such toccata., not fail to be most grateful to his feelings.(Cheers.)—Advocates as they had always been, and as they ever would remain of that which was termed, although now almost exploded, Parliamentary Reform, they would agree with him, that in no place could its ad vantages be better illustrated than in the borough of Col chester. One advantage which the friends of that mea sure would say would arise from its adoption would be, thot of creating a more intimate and equal intercourse be tween the constituent body and their Representatives. Now, if all the theoretical advantages of Annual Par liaments could possibly be realized, they could not even then instil a more striking illustration of the benefits of that measure 'than was shown by that which was now enjoyed by the Burgesses of Colchester. From the commencement of his connection with them, ex tending as it did over a great portion of their exist ence, and embracing as it did the spring-tide and the noon-tide. of their. lives, it bad ever been his object to instil into their minds the identity of the people with the re presentatives, and if an Act were passed to-morrow en joining Annual Parliaments, the annual intercourse which would result could not be more strictly observed than it I was then practically observed amongst themselves.- - (Cheers. )—He could then truly say, that for his own part he had never bent to any other power than that of the po • pular sentiment. He was aware that it was called a 'dis organising principle, and a levelling doctrine to seek a re- turn to Parliament by any other means than the power of fortune and the influence of pride; but he disregarded the assertions. He went to no official establishment to pur chase Burgesses by the heap—(Cheers and. laughter)—nor had he attempted to reconcile great manufacturers to . in• duce them to bring their creatures to the poll; no--s-but as a freeman, he sought to become the representative only of their free • choice.—(Cheers.)—He aline-sought that the principles which thus guided his own conduct, might be perpetuated when its founder should have been s w e pt away in the lapse of time ; and with that view he sug gested that a frequency of intercourse should be kept up amongst themselves by means of distinct clubs, in nutubvre sufficiently great to have the advantages of discussion, and yet too small to adMit of tumult. Such clubs would be so many local Parliaments, where the opinions which agiae4ed tlie Senate might be canvassed, and limn whence the result of their discussions might be communicated to their repre sentatives. The most refined system of republicanism that had ever been, or that could be devised, could not stel a ge:t a more equitable or better mode ofeommunion between the constitsenta and their representatives.—(Cheers.) The present meeting was one of convenience; but it was not without its power, as well as its utility; for at such a meeting the kindred spirit of the associated clubs might be expressed and communicated to the equally numerous clubs of London ;. so that all might drink at the same fountain, and make Colchester pre-eminent amidst the desolation of corrupt boroughs, and to bold it .up as an example filr imitation.—(COers.) It was the usual custom of repre sentatives (and its influence had once extended to Colches ter) to appear before their representatives a few days before an election, and when they had settled all their arrange.. Imeats for the contest, the sum total of the burgesses in their interest was cast up as so many numerals, and what- I ever price was paid, was paid in the lump—(laughter and I cheers)—so that they (lid not stand in the case of the bo rough of East Retford. It bad been alleged that he (Mr. Harvey) would not come down on the present occasion but with a view to his re-election, but such was not the case : he had no occasion to dread an election—there was nothing aw ful in that sound to him. So long as he was guided by sound principles, and so long as such principles continued to he held in estimation by the Burgesses of Colchester, the glittering display of parties who.might present themselves, supported by wealth suspiciously obtained in remote coun tries, would be wholly unavailing. All he asked was, that they would compare his conduct with their own principles, and the inference must be in his favour; but if it should so happen that the connection between them ever should be severed, the disgrace and the regret should be their own.— (Cheers.) He would not trespass so largely on their time or on his own health, as to go over the various topical al luded to in the-resolution ; but he must explicitly declare, that he was the first individual who had mentioned his de termination to bring in a substantial shape before the House of Commons the degraded situation of the Dis senters. They might remember that, at their last trium phant meeting, he had pledged himself not to let the ap proaching Session pass away without doing so. He was, however, envious of no man's fame ; he was, on the con trary, only anxious to imitate a good 'example ;• if time thing was to be done, no matter by whom :. it was the part of a prudent man to endeavour that it should be chine in the best way possible, and he was quite content to be an humble labourer in the vineyard.—(Cheers.)—lndeed no man can be better qualified to ensure success to such a measure, as well from his high connections and his high station in society, as from his general urbanity and un questionable talent, than the Noble Lord under whose auspices it passed. (Cheers.) It was, however, very fre quently found to be the case that the best measures, and the most essential reforms—(hear,) —had their origin in re tirement, and were suggested by men who would have blushed to find fame attached to their own offspring; but in.the case of the Test and Corporation Acts, it would have been more for the interest of party tactics to have de ferred the measure, though when it was found front his (Mr. ll.'e) declared determination that no choice was left upon the subject, they adopted the wisest course, and suc cessfully carried the measure through both Houses of Par liament. With respect to the Borough of East Retford, he should only then say that the question was still before the House of Commons, and that he never would give his vote to increase the power of the aristocracy, and cripple that of the people.—(Great cheers.)—East Retford, with all its faults, was fay better than a close borough. If Lords could regularly value and sell their boroughs for 5,000/. each---so regularly that they were amongst the muni ments of the Nobility with their piece, if not in motley, in that which was far worse than honest payment. But while Lords were allowed to do this, why should time poor be laid hold of? He could never allow that a Nobleman should be allowed to sell his borough for ,000/., while fifty men should be punished who had taken 100 k for their votes.—(Loud cheers.) — If time Government of time cOuntry ? be it Whig or be it Tory, and in his heart he believed them hell} to be evally sin cere, were desirous of abolishing such practices, let Owen go efficiently to work. If no man should commit such practices, de not lace the poor man, who had received five guineas as the prtee of his vote, under the infliction of pu nishment ; but let each r,epreeentatiie ef the people, as he PJXAS to the table to be worn, swear that imp leas not paid for a vote, directly oe indirectly. Nor has be, by promise or insinuation, had opt that a future consideration sreeld be given. Then they 'eight bare limpet evidence of e sincere reformation.—(Cheers.) —lf he were caideal ripen to name the act of his life in which he took the greatest pride, he eveelrl refer to the time when Mr. Stewart prOposed a clause to tOJ Alrapt in the Bill for disfranchising East Retford. That clause wee; moved in a full House : there were not less than three hundred Tories anq t.,7, hun dred Whigs ; and yet the only man who could be found to walk out of the House to say " Aye" to that resolution, wee. the web whom they had thought fit to return to Par liamnent.—(Clutere.),-tend yet there were to be found those to say, in excuse for their ewn feehlene9,3 of charac ter, that he (Mr. Harvey) was unmanogeatie--a ia t ilk acted with no party, and that he took a one-eyed view of ti ; iprl.—(Cheers and laughter.)—The fact was, that he earel not 'frene which side of the House a proposition came. He looked at every leteaeni:e. 1.l .t was proposed, and tried them all by one standard. Ile asked hinasell l,e sece,:ioo— how is this likely to serve or to prejudice the people '-'/..--- The man who acts upon this principle never can do wrong for hit on4itaepte. Ile may not do right for himself, ex cept so far as waiting iime eepepeal of his own conscience and the gratitude of his representatives ; bet bit' p rier doe? wrong for them. There was another subject which' his worthy friend (Mr. Holmes) had alluded to with great de homey; hut, fur his own part, he knew of no delicacy upon the subject, an?) i,imeee was no inhabitant of the bo rough of Colchester but sanest konsai that he leee treated as he ought to be, when be asked f o r the opopinionn 4 his 4,•-• presentative, and got it fairly and candidly. There was no domestic subject whatever which was so pregnant with just 'tear ape .eiLth honest alarm as that which was designated the Catholic einCstien. i lis worthy friend had said that he (Mr. Harvey) had never voters on• sitar g:lestion, but he could assure them that that did not trite 'Yom inditterem,e or a love of ease. During four long debates he had been tt'e greatest stickler to his seat—he had listened to proscrs Without 6;ge r eg, and to eloquence with delight. From the commencement of these deists et six o'clock in the even ing, until their close at six time next morning, he had never left his place ; so that whatever a Man could gain by speeches, made by men of the greatest minds, it had been his good fortune to obtain. Nei ther bad he been indifferent to literary productions upon eee . ~,e eee• ''' ' ' the. same subjiet. e ; Ile had'-eead there with e attention>and thtlaeaain their gt'el4 hetedlitigelet e led the ladies down that his mind was' ;still of the seine •Opinkineas ie.alwayst hid 1 roonelNltives 'atith)ilke;'eitte-Platinction of foreign coon been, which -, WeS-4hat this onestime " e Vie - 644- of settle- tries, rata then:•cemplaineif of *he too great cheapness of mert, and yet never would be settled. This might s e em Corn. e -- ._ A gentleman, a! friend offs, was reading to him a to be a paradox,:. but he would explain his meaning.— 3 letter e ehe other day, which breathed the spirit of the most They were told by mane:enlightened men in the country, I Profit - end philosophy upon the subject of National Govern he meant the Protestant Dieseaterse-that because the Test' ,euent. it was from ' lhlr ee leffertion, the President of the and' Corporation Acts had been repealed,' they must by ne- United States of America; to Major Cartwright, and i : ceseity concede the same thing to the Catholics. This be I concluded with denied—there was no necessary connection between reli gious liberty and Catholic concessions. —(Cheers from one or two individuals.) 'l'he fact was, religious liberty could net exist in its full region in a country where there was an Established Church, though it was true that an Esta blished Church might see very solid reasons for being to lerant ; but still, where there was an Established Church, doctrines must labour under an inconvenience, so that in short Religious Liberty could not be said to exist where there was an Established Church. But lie would ask if the House of Commons were prepared to discuss that question ? For his own part, be would at once say, that he had rather vote against all Established Churches than hazard getting a worse than we now have.—(Cheers and laughter.) It was said, and the assertion was enforced by the many talented men who distinguished the Association in Ireland, and had been re-echoed in this country, that the claims of the Catholic were fieintled in justice. Let this be proved, and lie would vote for them to-morrow.—(A cry from the lower end of the room of " No, no ; I say no.")—He was sorry if he was misunderstood by the burgesses—what he said was, that if the justice of the claims was proved, he would vote for them to-morrow.--(A cry of "That will do.")—ln perfect accordance with that declaration, . he would say, that if there were no Established Church in the country; he would vote to place the Catholics upon the same footing as the Dissenters, for then there would be I no Dissenters at all.—(A laugh.)—The Catholic Claims had no more to do with religious liberty than had Paganism or the religion of the Hindoos. The Catholic and Protestant Established Churches were both political contrivances' to keep vulgar men in order—(a)augh);—but both were governed by the same princiPle—to make the mind of man subservient to the high Priesthood ; but with this ditier ence—the Pope wished them all to think as he did ; but the Established Church gave them leave to think as they liked, provided they paid its clergy for thinking as they do---(Cheers and laughter.)--Jle telt quite assured, how ever, that if he himself, or any of those who were on that occasion assembled together, lived 50 y ea r s h en c e ,' th e y would find that the question would be—not whether the Catholice of Ireland would be emancipated, but whether the Church of England would be tolerated.—(Loud cheers.) The match of intellect must at last prevail in preventing the • eontinuance of the plunder of the community-_ (Cheers.)—ln the way in which •the'question of Catholic Emancipation at present came before the public, he was not prepared to Ray that it was inexpedient or utenecessary, to comply with the demand ; but this he would say, if such a measure should be pi °posed by the Duke of Wellington's Administration, and the question • would never be carried by any other, but if the Duke should propose the measure, he could assure them that they would find many' very mar venous conversions in that town.—(Great laughtee.)lf: it were possible to serve up a dish of the clergy in the shape of a fry, and if• as many personteas were then present were eager to partake of it, and if there were only as many phi... eons as there were churches in the borough, the conversion of parsons into 5,000, in order to satisfy the demand, ivotild be nothing more extraordinary.tban the miraculous con versions they would then witness. He had no hesitation in stating, that if the Duke of Wellington should propose the Catholics should be enianeipateffWithout army qualifiea tion, lie for one should vote against it.—(Cheers.)—For this determination he would give them his reason. - If ;lie thought that concessions to the Catholics, in the' most Un qualified sense, would put an end to the question, he would . vote in favour of those concessions. But he was satisfied that no man could think that the Catholics of Ireland in tended to be, or that they ought to be, satisfied with that measure. Could any man believe that they could be more efficiently represented by Catholic members than they are at pre.ent. If they wanted a redress of their grievances, and God knows the catalogue way black and long enough, he would ask if any portion of the community was more efficiently represented in point -of number, or more ably reprdsented with respect to talent, than were the inhabitants of Ireland. Even their own humble re presentative, who then had the honour of-addressing them; had only to explain and to denounce an act of oppres sion, in order to invite to the subject the attention of the Hume of Commons. Was it then to be supposed, when they looked at the talent which distinguished the present Irish Representatives, that that country would be better re preseoted, because Catholics could have the privilege of being returned? No, but the question resolvei itself to this, and rightly does it do so. If he were a Catholic, and he was saying this as if he were one, he could not, nor in deed could any honest Catholic who maintained the ideh tity of his religion with the state, be satisfied without a suitable endowment for his church. By whom, then, was that church to be endowed ? By whom did Sir F. Burdett propose that it should be endowed ? By the British public. (Cheers. )—But lithe proposition should be that there should be no bone of contention, that there should be no esta blished Church, or that the Catholic clergy should he en dowed out of the revenues of the Protestant Church ; then lie would be inclined to entertain it, but he never could vote for the 'Catholic question unless this were to be made one of the conditious, because they were already taxed to nteintain one church, and it would be too much to be taxed for the maintenance of another—(Cheers.) He haul now gone into a subject for a few minutes, which had never before been touched upon in that town, but which had occupied men of the rarest talents as many days 'and nights. The preeent'occasion, however, was inappropriate for entering deeply into the subject—(hear, hear, hear,) but lie wished to make himself clearly intelligible. Ile was clearly convinced of this, that Great Britain and Ire• laid could not remain a United Kingdom unless the prin ciple of conciliation was adopted. There was no difficulty in adjusting them, if the Government would act with firmness, and honestly pursue proper measures.—(Cheers.) One thing was too plain, that religion had no more to do with the question than the mown had in imparting day light at 110011. It was simply a contest between the two rival establielimente, one endeavouring to keep what they had got, and the other endeavouring to get back a portion of what they had lost. (Cheers.) If his choice was to be required as to which he would have as an established Re ligion, without any very great veneration for the Pro testant Religion, he would still decide in its fa. Your, because he believed there were several parti culars in which it was superior to the other. The Ca:. tholic Question was not one of Religiou, but of state policy ; but if Government thought they could quell it by entercing martial law, they would be disappointed and elefeeted ; .and every honest man must desire that such would he the Fee *. The sebjeet two pomplicateq, 4 0 was.no less interesting than complicetet), but it was itn e possible for him to do justice to it at a popular meeting such as that, combined as it was with purposes of festivity also. He would only say, that when it was alleged against hie) that h p W4a *44 to vote qq the Catholic %testicle, through a sleyish fear that the bergesses:of Colchester would be offended, ited would reject him—(Hear,)—the persons who made these allegations, or who formed such opinions, knew nothieg of hieler--(Leed eheeliee.)---He 0 0 '414 f e el no pride in being the liondetnee, end 'if a t any thee the general current of -his and their opiuions ' should differ materially (he would not bend himself, and of course lie could not expect them to belle), he ehoeld epayide it 4 4 as admenitien 4114 tee ;:in. ! nection should' be aissolved, and lie should resign his delegated authority into their hands.—(Cheers.)—H e would caution them not to expect much from him. He had entered upon life with the most sanguine sentiments iipor, :-. : apy eubjeees ethic!' lie since found to be a!teeether impracticable-ethe power of tile' felt was #o great, and the pnwer of the many so little, tha t it was diffictilt tO•eifact any thing in the shape of improvement. At the present day Patriots were a cheap commodity—a man had only to develop a system of Government, and make an elaborate speech once a itieseiee, so ee to c-taka a ligeee i . - t i the papeq and no farther, theiv Was itieerid . of his tittil.ty, and ' the country had him a Patriot at a cheap price. 'flee truth, however, was, that the present system was so ovetwhelined ;hot po !minim efforts could make any essential inroads upon it. 1110, National Debt had enlisted the fears of all those who had i'ot 'any 'iutii, ' ii4'ettt or's:Pall, invested in the funds, so that though a man should say that lie was a friend to reform, it would be Lund that he was so in theory only, and not in practice. With mpl.::;t to reform, the theory and practice of must men dif ferent' upoo titelelifet.e; the iettein - Intui.,:: of reform /raa , . . . .. annual Parliaments--but annual ParliaiOeets ' would be it curse, unless it was accompanied with other things. The exorbitant e xpenses of elections could not be borne. — (Hear, hoar, and loud cheers ) The Member for Nor wicl; woad tell them this, when he bad to carry his voters one blind - red miles to the poil, while his flags bore the in scription of "Reform ;"but dots it wee, inane were re formers in theory only, b u t f ew i n prac ti ce . Then, if free trade was mentioned, they wou ld fi n d that every person who was not a farmer was for it. (A laugh.) He could assere the f ai,,:eor % that hi, 4 0 ,,, was blocked me oeF , sionally by noinfaCiniers, *liltin g him to a dvocate the pro hibition of certain goods in which they dealt as manu facturers,. They complained of the corn laws, and " Tan to ra ra, rogues all." (Immense laughter.)—There might be something of va nity in the assertion ; but he felt that lie was justified in suying that he did not believe that any loan entered the house of Commons so free from influence of any kind, whether it regarded the corn laws or taxation, as-himself. He could not be affected by there, and of course to him they were unimportant. Could others, he would ask, say as much ?—(Cheers)--and yet he was told that he was an enemy to the laws, when they gave a high price for that article. He would not forsake the burgesses as long as they approved of his conduct, bet when they did not do so, he should resign his trust into their hands. The Hon, Gentleman then concluded by giving as a toast " Prospe rity to the rights of the Burgesses of Colchester, and may they always have the independence to defend them." Ha then sat down amidst loud and enthusiastic cheering from all parts of the room. The CHAIRMAN then said he had to propose a toast 'which he was sure would meet with prOper honours, it Was the health of a fellow-townsman who had distin guished himself as the advocate of freedom, and the op.; poser of slavery, he meant, Mr. Thomas Keymer. This Wiest was drank with great applause. Mr. KEYMER. rese and returned thanks in a .most.elo quent speech, of which the following is an outline :—After thanking the meeting,for the honour just conferred, he oh ' served that he would not take up their time by descanting on the subject with which his name had been coupled, he was sure no person in that room was indifferent to the, situation of a slave. Liberty was dear to us all, but let us use our exertions that the whole world may enjoy•it. (Cheers.) He would say no more on this subject, it was not one which constituted any part of the business they . were then met 'hi discuss. it was but seldom they had opportunity of meeting their worthy Representative, such occasions were few and far between,". but he rejoiced that they did sometimes occur, when his (Mr. Harvey's) constituents could express their approbation of his con duct in Parliament; their connexion was. cemented by esteem, and so long as he remained true to the principles he has hitherto maintained, he would not be deserted by the Free Burgesses of Colchester; it was a connection that no poWer could sever—a Representative that did his duty had many difficulties to encounter. Mr. K. then took a review of the policy. pursued . by_ the present Administration was aware they had ninny important questions presied upon their consideration; the manufacturing and agricul tural interests were in a depressed state; he trusted they would have the courage and ability to meet and alleviate them ; lie trusted a straight-forward course of economy would be pursued, not by abolishing a few situations, but on a g eneral plan ; and that the good of the people would not b e sacrified to the aggrandisement the few. If they had this object at heart they' would not want the suppOrt of their worthy Representative ; if it was, the cause of the country he would be among the foremost, but if their policy was to be narrowed and confined, .and attended with prejudices which ought to have been exploded two centuries ago, however they might be supported by the Aristocracy and the Clergy; the Administration must fall. Their worthy representative had done 'himself infinite honour in voting for the . repeal of the Test and Corpora tion Acts; for no religion, so long mit was not inconsis-' tent with the welfare of the state, ought to he subjected!to political disabilities; they were under great obligations 'to Mr. Harvey,.hoth in and out of Parliament; there was no case of distress but what he was ready to come forward, and, to the best of hia ability, alleviate ; • and it was a fact perhaps not generally known,.that the largest contiibution • to the funds of a literary institution in this town, was made by Mr. Harvey. The obligations he had conferred on Colchester never could be forgotten ; they wanted no monuments of wood or stone to perpetuate and keep theta in recollection—he would say, in the language of a Scotch poet— .„ " The bridegroom may forget the bride Was made his wedded wife yest'reen ; The monarch may forget the crown, That on his head an hour has been ; . • The mother may forget the child .- ,k!1 That smiles ao sweetly on her knee ; !`‘: But I'll remember thee, my friend, And all that thou bast done for me." -0.: Mr. KEYNIOUR sat down amidst loud applause, which lasted for several minutes. At twelve o'clock Mr. Harvey and the Chairman with. , drew from the loom, amidst general acclamation. Mr. PHILBRICK was then called to the Chair, and the harmony of the meeting was kept up to a late hour. ELECTION OF AN ALDERMAN. Yesterday the polling went on with great spirit. At three o'clock the polling ceased, and The LORD MAYOR declared that the result was as follows: Mr. Sheriff Copeland 245 Mr. Dove Majority in favour of the Sheriff 4O The LORD MAYOR then adjourned the Wardinote. DINNER TO THE LORD MAYOR BY. THE INHABITANTS OF HIS WARD. On Monday a splendid entertainment was given to the Right Hon. the Lord Mayor by the inhabi tants of the Ward of Cheap, of which his Lordship is Alderman, at the King's Head Tavern, in the Poultry. The object was to congratulate his Lordship on his having reached the civic chair, and about 100 of the principal inhabitants sat doWn to dinner. The DEPUTY of the Ward was in the'chait. After "The King," " The Duke of Clarence, and the rest of the Royal Family," Were drank enthusi astically, the health of the Duke of Wellington and his ikiajesty's Ministers was proposed, and received with loud cheering. His Grace was described by the proposer as a man admirably qualified to carry the wishes and intentions of a wise sad benevolent Prince into effect. •He had distinguished. himself most particularly of late, by adopting as a principle that which the country had • long demanded as a right, an .abatement of expenditure. The hand of retrenelitaent was busily at work, and no doubt the public burdens would be proportionably lightened, arid public distress proportionably alleviated. • The health of the Lord Mayor was theil Proposed, and drank in the warmest manner. The proposer of this toast congratulated the Ward upon . the honour they enjoyed of having for the first time within the last 40 years a Lord Mayor who was Alderman of the Ward. of Cheap, Tip Lott p MAyott returned tlianlcs, c ,:f tip grdinary dimensions, T to he p C os::: lively picture of that body was drawn, They were. o t t i :uricit" was then given, and a said and to be influenced in all their actions by the spirit of liberty arid independence. Mr. BLE.IDES then proposed the "health ofAlder man. Thompson" as the first Member for the City of Lor t ilpii : The Lonp MATot said, that in supporting the present -Administration, he felt that he united with the rest of the community in placing the strongest reliance in the wisdom, zeal, and energy of the Dulte of Wellinpon : (Loud cheers ! ) Froin the efforts o f his Brace, the greatest s e rvi ces m i g ht be . ex pected to the *community ; but although the general plan adopted by his Grace would, he was convinced, be the most advisable, still there might 4ri4e points of difference—there oectir sidlecto on which bp (tile Lord Mayor) tlhould entertain different, and even contrasted sentiments, and in every case of the kind he should, without hesitation, act upon that feeling, and proceed in the very spirit of opposition. (Loud cheers.) His Lordship concluded by repeat -lu' ;li.stFgrig . regard for the Ward of Cheap, The Convrviality of the evening was kept up with a great deal of spirit : it was enlivened by some good glees from professional men. RUSSIAN LOAN, NEGOcIATED BY MR. N. M. ition4 SIIILD IN LONPOT.—The half-yearly dividend on the above loan, which becomes due on the tat of March next, will be paid on the following Monday, Ed of March, and every succeeding day (Sundays excepted), by Mr. N. M. Rothschild, between the hours of 'l'eu and Two. The divi dend warrants, with a list thereof in numerical order, must be left three days previous for examination. Printed forms to be previously called for. ; i t 2 fr ' FOTIEION - INTEtztoliNdt ' ";,i; FRENCH PAPERS. (From the Message! des Chafinbra 4 - Fel!. 1.1 PARIS JAN. 31.—The Courier of ,Snl „Yrnfl,Y. icb is always hoitile`tO the Greeks, hakthe following re' flections in its number of the 13th Dexember, on tb 6 limits which the Greeks wish to have for their frow tier :—" The first idea which should - prevail in , fiting the frontiers of a state, is undoubtedly to secure it from the hostile attacks of a neighbouring state. The negotiators at Poros, at least two of them, or pear to have viewed the question in another light, ao they proposed to fix the continental frontiers of Greece between the Gulfs of Arta and Volo. " Such a frontier - would certainly not secure to the Greeks that tranquillity which theniediating Powero propose. "The Morea, which, if well cultivated, could Sup' port two millions of inhabitants, surd has tit present .not a fourth of- that population, together with the islands which surround it, :should. satisfy the ambi' tion of the Greeks. Any farther. extent of territory would produce endless quarrels, and a continual state of war which would disturb the peace of Europe. " The treaty of London proposes the tranquillity arid the welfare of the Greelcs . :! its spirit must be adhered to. The English Ambassadorhas declared that his Government would not have Greece extend beyond the Mena." • • (From the Gaiette de Fratace, 'clated;Feb.. 2.) ' PARIS, FEB. is' affirmed that a loan 0 ' 25,000,000 has 'Just been coutraeted• by' the Porttr ! guese Government with 'a banking-house at Pixie' This loan, it is said, will be repaid by ,Means of am nuities, and will be secured upon one of the tuaochei of the. public revenue of that kingdom. The pro' duce of the tax allotted to this payment is to be paid into the the hands of the Contractors or their agent at Lisbon. It. is thought that the farm of. WI Nero, or , that of the wine of Oporto, 'will be selected for this purpose ; so that the Contractorwould be paid in this manner, not by the Treasury, but by 0 1 farmer of the tax assigned for the purpose. If we are well informed, this loan, to be repaid ie 25 annuities, has been contracted for at the rate 0 ' 80 per cent. COURSE OF IiECH. Amsterdam C.F. 12 1 • Ditto, at s►ght 11 19• Rotterdam 2 V_l2 Antwerp 12 Ha►nbu.gh M.B. 13 12 Altotia ' 13 121 Paris, 3 days• s►ght '25 35 Ditto 2 U. 25 60 Bordeaux '25 115 Berli►► Frankfort on Maine, Ex. M. 15 k Petersburgh, ruble, 3 Us. 10 0 Vienna, effective A. 2 M. 10 Trieste do 10 Si Madrid. 374 Cadiz Si% Bilboa 37% Barcelona ' 363( Seville 37 G.Ltralta r 47 1. NG It YESTERDAY. ;, Leghorn 48 Genoa.„ • 95 45 , ,Veniee 47,4 Malta ._ _ --, Nap.' ...... ....... ... %), 7 ' Palermo' ' • per ST. -1 1 / 5 Lisbon •.. :........-. . 45 ()ports 44 Itio.laneirci • 274 Bahia ... .. ... ......4 ' . 34 ilUello6 Ayres • -° Dithlin, 21 clays' sight I Cork ' - " ' 1 SUWON, 'PL& oz. Portugal Gold,'coin.:. 0 0 Foreign Gold,' in barn• S 17 km New Doulilnons,„,,,„;• , o • 0 v New Dollars Silver, bars, -standard - 0' 4 stA Arrived. • Due. O Muscle& ... O Brazil O Ifueaos Ayrea 1 Dui& u 0 O Flanders U 1 France 0 • Gotteuburgh 3 0 Guernsey & Jersey 0 Arrived. Due. O Hitraburgh 4 O Holland • Jana/dee • I.eaward !Maude ° 0 Lisbon 0 0 liana 0 1 0 Mexico 1 Waterford O, COLOSSEUM. TICKETS for PARTIES, o r SINGL 1 . TICKETS, at Fire Shillings each for Admisaion to the COLOSSEUM, prior to its tail completion, t 4 view the • Interior of the Building—the Rooms preparing for Annual SLabsiribers—and the Conserritoriee, way be, had at the North Lodge of the Colosseum ; at Sono Library, St. James'-street; Ebers', New Bend-street; Andrews's, New Bond -street ; Moon; Boys, and Grave' No. 6, Pall-wall; Aciceiman's, Regent -street and StrA4o! Taylor's AreLitecturat Lib rar y, H o lbO rn; „ Library, Holborn; Harris's Juvenile Librari; St. Nero Church-yard; Pinney, Bookseller, 17; Fltsit-strinii; chardson's, Royal Exchange; aAd J t e Aiii4criii'Libi4o Leadenhall- street. The Building wild od:tidings OPEN DAILY, kola T' to Four, during the next , . - T '-.. . _ . . . -" • .i.-,..,..,.......;....-..„,-...„....,.,ft . .. ..„ . . ••• LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, PEBRIIARy 4, NW. Public expectation looks forward with mud' anxiety to his MAJESTY'S Speech to-morroo The impression seems to be general that the state of Ireland will, be a prominent feature in the Speech, and that the question of Catholic Emancipation will be definitively settled. W e sincerely trust it. That on'e act would make the Government more popular than any Administra' tion for the last 50 yeara. The French Papers are not distinguished bi any article of importance. The same alacrity exists at Toulon and the southern ports of Franco in repairing the :losses or in filling up the casualties resultinoifrom the expedition to Greece. It appears by..the arrival of a merchant v essel which left Tetieeira on the 23d ult. t h a t of the Portuguese. Emigrants were preyented from landing,* that Isbnd by his Majesty's Ail ) Pallas, ante 'two smaller vessel s o f war, w hich left England .some time before with ~~ sealed orders." As the information has not yet arrived in an authentic shape, we abstain from making remarks upon a proceeding which under any vie' s ' of it is surrounded with many embarrassing cir cumstances. A Morning Paper observes, that English ships are , refused as transports for the Portuguese emigrants, because " there is t►p chance through' such means. of landing their upon the spot desired, and that expedients ar o seeking to overcome this difficulty by the employment of American vessels. One vessel of a large class, being six hundred tong burden, has been already engaged at freight double of that at which the English ship' owners would have been willing to undertake' the contract, but the Captain is of determine' character, and engages to land the emigrants lo carries to Terceira, in spite even of thO squadron, He will dispute their search under such circumstances, and maintain his right to carry passengers to any port he pleases. Tor time Portuguese ships of war the Captain professes t1) 0 utmost contempt, and will not hesitate toeng3g° one of their frigates if molested. It is also. derstood that a French frigate will conyey 133 Terceira those emigrants who have landed 3 $ Havre, and that orders have been given by the French Government to accomplish it,. whatever opposition may be offered. The Governor of Terceira is in communication, by every channel that presents itself, with the Portuguese Arn bassador in London."