The Sun. — London, England, 1807-08-06 00:00:00

10 IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. WEDNESDAY, AUG. 5. I Several Bills on the table were forwarded in their respective stages. - Mr. Hohhouse,,Mr., Mellish, Mr. Stanley, Col. Beanmont; and several other Members of the House ' of Commons, - 13;ought up ~the Philanthropic Annuity institotion , Bill, and several Bills returned with the Amendments of the Lords 'agreed to. On'the first reading of the'Philanthropic Annuity Instigation Bill (to enable the Society ,to• . sue in the name of their Treasurer), The `LORD, CHANCELLOR observed, that 'it had Nei) , become a pra&ice for Societies of this descrip tion not to' apply for a Charter: of Incorporation, which would . impose pertain Duties on them 'for the, benefit , of. the Public, but to. come to Parliament with.these Bills, in order to obtain just so much of a corporate capacity as suited their own convenience.. He thought, therefore, that these Bills 'should be' looked to with great 'jealousy, and he should take an opportunity m another stage of the Bill of de livering his senthnents upon the . subjeet. The Bill was . read a first time, and ordered to be printed. Tin Order-of-the Day for receiving the Report. of thc Triders' Assets Bill was, on the motion of the LORD CHANOELLOR discharged, and the Bill ordered tp be committed to-morrow. EAST INDIA WiNDS BILL. • Lord HOLLAND , presented a Petition from the Merchants 'and. inhabitants of Liverpool, against this Bill, wbich could not he received yesterday, btit which had been since altered agreeable to the forms of the House. • Ordered to lie on th© table, Lord HAWKESBURY MOVeCt the third. reading of The Bill. Lord HOLLAND said he did not mean to'pbjea to the third reading; but, at the same time he .wished that the subjeEt could have been brought forward at a 'period When there was a fuller attendanFe to dis cuss the subje&. The Bill was read a third time and passed.. • PROTEST. Lord HOLLAND, after referring to the Standing Order' which declares that Protests should be entered before two o'clock, and signed by the. Lords pro testing before the rising of the House otutbe day'of sitting succeeding the decision protested against, stated, that in consequence of the unexpected rejec tion of the Offices in Reversion Bill -yesterday, a Protest against' flint 'decision had beentregnlarlysen tered, but that it was wished to make 411 alteration in two of the reasons alledged in the Protest. From the unexpeEted reje6tion of that Bill, and the short., ness or the peririd'which had . since elapsed, he was induz;ed to hope that their Lordships would allow such an'alteratiou to be made', and also that those who.wished to sign it might have time till the risjit the :HotiSe. to-triorrOw. His Lordship • moved to that effe6i. The LoUDCNANciLLon obierved, that it always clad been the praElice of the House to keep a tight band over the,privilege of protesting, and he thought the Order ought in general to tic rigidly.adhered to. in the present Initance, the Lords Protesting bad stated their reasons at great length, and he did not see ony ne:essity for granting any further permis sion: After a few words from Lord HoLL4Nn, in reply, the motion was negatived. Adjourned tilt to-ipor. row (th;,4 day).. . . . HOUSE OF COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, Awl. b. The FiPEA,Kr.ti acquainted the House; that Mr. Edward May, jun., ~ . 4113 had petitioned the House, complaining, of an undue return for the Town and County of the Town Of Carrickfergus,' had not entered into recognizauces within the time prescrib ed by law. The order for taking the said Petition into . consideration Was discharged. A person from the Office of, Paymaster-General presented Accounts of the sums of IIAtIV advanced to, Army Agents.---Ordered to be Mr. HusicisioN obtained leave to bring in a 13111 to empower the Cornmissionersappointyd to examine the Barrack;Mastor. General's I)4c:omits, finally to audit the tame. He then brought up i;,e 1301; which vas read a:.first, and ordered to be read a second trite tt-morrow. Mr„liounousa brought tip the Report of the Committee on the Irish Arms 13il1. The Aniend ments were read and agreed to; as were two intro fluced by Mr. Low: and Mr. LUSIIINGTON. .The Bill was ordered to be printed, and lobe read a third time n, Friday. N Tho ArrruaNtit-Gros,sttAL obtained leave to bring in a Bill to discharge ffoin the claims of the Crown certain real: and personal property of General be lancey,.late Barrack-Master -General, vested in Trus tees for sale. He then brought up the Bill ;• which was' read a first, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. On the . Motion of Mr. WHARTON . , the Order for taking into consideration, on the 13th of August, the Petition complaining of an undue Return for the Borough of Saltash,- was discharged .; and the Ist of September Was fixed for that purpose. A message from the Lords announced their Lord ships' assent to the Justice of Peace Bill, the Pelican Insurance Company's Bill, the Albion Insurance Company's Bill, and the Globe Insui•ance CoMpany's •Sir C. POLO moved, that the Petition presented few days ago froth Major F,yre, the representatiVe Lieut. Eyre, complaining that a considerable portion of the produce of the capture of Chiosnrah was withheld from the captor,, 6y the East India Coal , y any, be referred to a (2.onitnittee. • The ctinticet.4.,oa Of the Xxcutinutta opposed the Motion on these gi.'ounds: a decree in the Court of Admiralty. bad certainly.beeri gi'ven in favour Oft the Petitioners, bit tau its being repreiented by the East India COmpany, that - the Dutch . East" India_ company'llad instituted a *proceeding, to proye their right tc) the property thus cktiroodillwhich,proceed , ings had been interrupted by the Wilt, but 'might be restuned iu peace, exqcotiob . .of that 4eciree been suespended, and 'the .riders applications for its inforcement that had been made to the Privy Coon= c,41, ir4Cl in consequence been releoted. • • .. i,~, ;: ~.w.,w., -The Motion was negativeti without a divisim. • Mr. 8AU1,710,1 brought up a Bill for insurin;': cer-_ tainty and dispatch in the delivery of Writs br Eleetion of Members of Parliament.' on ; first and orderedtobe read a second time on Frida -, ; and to be printed. , . , Mr. HUSKISSON brought up a Bill.to enable his Majesty to raise 4,000,0001.' by Loan on ExchNner Bills. Read a first, and ordered t . o be read a iecond . time to-morrow, Mr. FOSTER brought Up - a Bill to, enable bii jesty.to raise 600,0001. by Loan on Exchequer Bills for the service of Ireland. ". Read a first, and ordered to be read a second time so-morrow. The Military Canal Bill was read a third time. Mr. LUSHINGTON proposed a clause to indemnify certain 'Clergymen' whose tythes has been injured . by the Canal. _ The SECRETARY at WAR opposed the clause ; not conceiving that those persons . were intitit'ci to any such indemnification. Mr. FULLER supported the clause, understanding that, the, compensation already aarded. had by no means been adequate. The CHAriaELLUR of the ExcHcauna'maintained that the request was, unreasonable, 'and it' admitted would.lead to injurious consequences. The ClauSe was then 'n%at ived without a division, and the Bill was reada third 'time and passed. REVERSIONS. BANKES gave notice, that on Friday he s would make a motion relative to the Resolution of that House of the 24th of Mara,. against granting Places in Rever,ion. •The Consolidated Fund 13111 went throtigh a Corn mittee, the Report of which was ordered. to be te. qeived to-Morrow, ' .‘ MILITIA'TRANSFER BILL The Order of the Day for the third reading of the 'Militia Transfer Bill having been rend, Lord CASTLEREAGH moved, that the Bill be now read a third time. Opidnel STANLEY took the opportunity of ex pressing his disapprobation of the Bill, contending that the advantages which the Line would derive from it • Vt' ere by no means - equal to the injuries which the Militia, that great constitutional force, would sus tain. He enumerated the services which the Militia had rendered to the Country, and wished to know whether it was intended to continue these attacks upon it periodically, as in that case it would become a question how far the Officers would expose thetif selves to such unpleasant eirctimstances. He Observed also, that he had. received a letter frOm thelieu tenant-colonel of the Regiment of Militia which he hadthe honour to comnaand, in which it was Stated; that persons had been tampering with the men, 'for the purpose of inducing them to enlist into a Regnlar Regiment in the neighbourhood, and that . the same consequences had resulted, of intoxication and in subordination, as he was convinced would generally follow the passing of the Bill into a law. He asked the Noble Lord opposite, whether any orders' had been issued .by Government to prevent such tam pering as that which he had just described Lord:CASTLERA4GI replied to the tWo ques tions of . the .Hon. Gentleman. With regard to . 1 1 IP first, whether it was intended that the measure, as it related. to the Militia, should be periodical he had Stated at considerable length his objedions "to such a proposition, and his convidion that it would ,be ito predicable. , As to the tampering, it would have been highly presumptnous in his Majesty's Ministers, . to have iSStlefi any orders on the .subject before the bill had received the sandion even of one House of Parliament; although the expression of their senti ments both on the face of the Bill, and in the debates that had taken. place on its various stages, would, he should have,supposedi have beervamply seffiPkot to pros 4 e that' such cnildpet as thht described - by the Hen. Gentleman would meet their severest reproba tion. 4 Those by whom it had been pradised would, however, reap no adVantaue from it, fbr the regi7 ment-which was in the neigribotirhoed of the (Anton, meats of \ the Lancashire Militia, would in all proba bility not be one of, those recommended for, the re ceptionbf volunteers. As soon as Minister* were authorised - by the passing of the Bill into a law, miler proceedings would be discountenanced by an Order from the Commander in Chief; for .nothing could be farther front their wishes than any . Im proper interference with the Militia. by Abe OtlicerS of , the Line. Sir R. WILLIAMS observed, that if the Bill had been brought forward early in the s:esslen, the sense of the People .would have been so strongly eXpressed' to their Representatives, that it must have been re je6led, and the Gentlemen opOmite 'must have lust their places. He blamed the eagerness 'with which Ministers had subverted his Right Floe.' Friend's Plan, which, he contended, was every day proving its excellence; and remonstrated against the stiggia thrown upon the Militia, 'which amounted to an ac emotion that they were not lit to defend their corm- try. He again maintained, that the Majors-General of the distri6ts ought ,to inspeaand manteuvre the Volunteers themselves.: General TA it Lwroii repeated, that it was impos sible that the Majors -General if distriL•ts shouid in spe6t the Volunteers. Mr. BANKS gave his consent to. the measure, not because he was blind to the inconveniences that must, in many cases, result from it, but because, feeling in common with every Member of, the House , the necessity of increasing the Military Force of the Country, he did not' Consider himself warranted in opposing the Bill tar that purpose, proposed by his ..Majesty's Ministers, unless . he could offer something better in subititetion. He s tated the greunds of his . approbation of the Plan of. his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham), and lamented that there were such fluttuationS in many parts of the 4dtpinistration of the Country, that that Plan could not have fair play. It could not he denied that the. Ballot would he highly oppresSiVe, and would .materially injure, and for a short time;destroy the Reciuiting for . 0 10 , R e .. &ler Army. ' , l'o obviate this latter evil,as much as possible, he thought it adviseable that the' M one y given for Substitutes should pass alone thr6ugh t h e hands 'of Government, and was, therefore, desirous that the 'Fines shotild not he of such an amount as to preclude this course. The Clause introduced in the CoMmittee, giving the Volunteers from the Militia to the Line, the optipn .of limited' or rotted Service, net with his peculiar approbation. It was with the 'most sincere regret that he found* this Bill was all that it was iuteutivtl to IVopose, as he cooe.eived that it was far from being , adequate to the exigency of the CoUntry. His Noble Friend had recommended that further ineasureS should be delayed to the next Session, but was it certain'that in the next :Session .the opportunity of due ration would be afforded ? Why the Training Bill should. not be put in force vas to him utterlyincom piebensible. It had never been considered as oner ous, but 11 there were obstacles to its execution,.be did not think it •becatne Parliament tO separate until an attempt had been made to remove those obstacles. He rejoiced that the Volunteer System was, reviv ing, but-some other ' body of force was required in the Country, from which, in .case of Invasion, the Regular Army , might be recruited. If ever there was any probability of an Invasion, that probability had become much increased within the last two, or. three years. Every thing had occurred to facilitate ie, -- nothing to retard it. Lord • FOLICSTO NE objected strongly.. to the t Bill, and replied to the remark of the Hon, dent tleman who bad just spoke, that he would' support* . the Bill because Ministers thought it eipedient,,al- . though. he himself disapproved of it. He- could not agree thu§ to surrender his own judgment. Veneral LOFTUS regretted ,that so much oppo sition had been given. to this measure, which he . maintained was highly expedient. The former V° , lunteets from the Militia had given to the Army some of the best non-commissioned Officers, and even Adjutants, and he depredated the wish to lock up men of similar character, from extending their sphere of service. Mr, WINDHAM putitto. the House to decide, who were right: and who were wrong,' in the circum stances which detained the House' for such a length of time that Morning._ 11e appealed to what had just passed. Would it have been proper to read the: Bill a third time, without having heard the discus sion which had that evening taken - place ? Unques, tionably not. . The Noble Lord had 'declared, ,that the Subject was exhausted,• this was. a considerable . assumption on the Bart of 'any individual. 'lf the • forms of the House, and the state.of the 'Session allowed, plenty of new topics of objections would' arise to the'Keble Lord's Bill. - 4t was a steed* dish. The House might out and came again.- , -- 'Whether any emergency. existed ? what was its *na ture? what' measures were best calculated to meetit •if it existed ? whether this Was one of those mea, sUres ? these were consideritions which demanded repeated enquiry. ..He denied that the number of Men gained by the Ballot, or rather the difference between that number and the number • .that would otherwise be gained by the regular . Recruiting, would in any degree conip.ensate for the . mischief' that must result from the.. contest of Bounties to the regular Recruiting. Adverting to his own mea sure, he observed, that in .the first three months of the last year, it had produced at the rate of t f ,600 men.a year ; in the next three months, at the rate of 13,000 men ; in .the next three months, at the rate' of '2 1;0o men ; and in the last three Months. at the rate •of 24,000 men, thus proving its progressive imProvement. Let this be. compared with the Parish Bill When this result was con 'Bidered, as combined with the, effects which must have followed putting the Training Bill into activity, the number that a perseverance in this plan must ' have. produced, and regularly produced, would nearly 'have eqUelled the number proposed to be . raised by the, -Noble Lord's plan—raised by an effort which must paralyze future exertion. After having thus maintained the superiority of his. System in raising; M e n, be entered ; into similar Statements with respect to the diminution which it had occa sioned, and which, if it had been persevered unquestionably would have 'occasioned, in the nutn; ber of desertions, The styes of the Noble Lord's plan on the Militia, had been sufficiently described by the Gentlemen who bad spoketv on that subject: Fox years to come . the. Militia would not recover the blow of the Noble. Lord. If it was once admitted that we had a right to plunder the Militia; it was' a mere mockery to say that a recurreilee of the assum ed necessity of plunder would not happen. With. - moat& 16 the Training- A&, which vidm be the grand reservoir from which the Regular Artily might be supplied, on the score of some difficulty in the exeCutioe,.the Noble Lord proposed to postpone the consideration of it to the next Session, What dtffi culty ? - None that he knew of, except the mistakeY of having" lists. 'instead of proper listsithw effects of which, however, had in a,great measure b e en removed. He repeated] , his statements on the s,nbjeol of the Volunteers, and contended, that'lf, in ease. of invasion, it were atterupted to bring a large body of Volunteers to a& with tehe,Line against some of th e best troops in EUrope, it would be. a • most ruinous proCeeding, and one against the auticipi.t l 9; of which he entered his solemn protest. lle con ». tended this - measure would'be much rime eXpen sive,. than the fOrer measure, and press as a most •f unequal- tax upon - the poor man, who w ould be ruined by the penalty of 201. whilst his wife and family would .be driven upon the parish. Of his own plan it.conld Pot be said that airy. part of it was a Job. But when they considered the time at which the present Ministers took measures to court the Volunteers,• on the 'eve of a General, Election, the tratisaCtion would have much the appearance of one. Whatever the Volunteers might do in a campaign against Bonaparte; they were an effeetual Ministerial army in an Eletilion campaign.. They were a good instrument, and the Gentlemen opposite had, even !when in opposition, played upon it. He looked upon the destru&mon of the late - system, as having its full share in the 'objeCt of Ministers in bringing forward this measure. His Hon. Friend had well said, that the clause ,introduced into the Bill was of no use to it ; but was he sure that the - Bill itself' had not been introduced to receive the clause ? The whole country was with the system brought for ward last, year, and .certainly one half of it .was against the present plat). Ministers had been in office mrety months Without bringing forward this measnte, till the Session Was nearly over, and many aeutleriten had lett town - whe Would be 'desirous of discussing it: But the defeat of the Russians had produced an emergency to call for the measure, Had they not sagacity to foresee that event ? Did they resemble pepons who walk without . apprehension it .pleasure grounds, till suddenly alarmed, when they come to what' in military language- is called a sunk l;miee, but what,„ from the expression of sUr= prise it draws forth, is commonly called a his . 1 1th ! When they find the emergency, the watch . must be t called, they spring their rattles, and then follows the dismantling and breaking up of the Militia. The ralF,fillw?) if adopted was calculated to treak up all the :ex4o,FEsthblishMents ; but he thanked God, that. the system of last 'year had existed long enough to . haiostr:right judgment formed of it ; and he would heeatitedto go down to posterity with no, other -claitens_to 'merit than that afforded, as compared with the systeins of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. Like an eminent Italian Musician, who had a piece . 'of music inscribed on his tomb, of the Dutch Ma , thethatician, who had a calculation for his.epitaph) ,he.would desire, no other monument as a Statesman than that system. 'He lamented the rn easura .. then before the House, more from' the effe& it would have in destroying the existing system, the benefits of - . .which had begun to be felt, than from any cons'. .dertiotv personal to himself, or his Hon. Friends :Who'assisted him in bringing forward that sytern.— W these grounds, therefore, he protested against theipresetit measure. The question was then loudly called for, and the Praffery cleared, when, after a few bbservations from FRANXLA !qv, against the ; Bill, a division 'took piace,-"For the third reading, '76—Against it,- 19.-- Majority 67.—The Bill was then read a third time, and, after some verbal amendments, passed, and ordered to the Lords. On the motion of Lord CASTLEREAGH, the Mi.. litia Completion 11111 was read a third time. 'Seve., ral Clauses were added to the Bill, for. regulating tl4 manner in which the Fines levied under the 'Bill should be : disposed of, direaing that Special Con stables for taking Lists under the Mt should not be exempt from the Ballot and requiring the Clerks, of Subdivisions .to make out duplicate. Schedules of the Men Ballotted,. of the Men serving by Substi. tute, and the finesievied tinder the.46t,tO, be trans- mitted within fourteen days,,one to the Quarter Ses. • sions, the other to his Majesty's Principal Secretary of Slate for the Home Department. Mr, WILBERFORCE brought up a-Clause for' Allowing tO persons ballotted not possessed of 4001. ~piOpqrty, three-fourths instead of one-half of the price of a Substitute, to be supplied by the Parish, whether he served in person, or protured a .Sub. •Itfloute, CASTLEREAGH had aoubts of the exPe' dienoy of the Clause, because there were ten or twelve Clauses in the Bill, •which had been franaed on the former arrangement, and should be altered if the Clause were admitted. He had Minas) objec.. - Akin to it on a broader 'ground, because it would' open the fundamental principles of all our Militia Laws, and tend to encourage the service by Substi, tute, though he should not have the same objealism ' to the Clause if it was to extend only to the man personally serving. , • Air. THORNTON observed, that the adoptioi Af thin' Clause would.do, away a considerable pars of the objeEtion 'which he felt to the measure., The Clause, however, was then itegatived without. a ail vision, after which a few verbal amendments were made to the body of the Bill, and it was passed, an 4 ordered to the Lords. On the question tbr passing 'the NIL Mr. PO LE CARET urged the prOpriety forming a local Militia, not to. be called out 0101 4 in cases of imminent danger. With this Militia .h!.: qhould like to see amalgamategl as great a, paili.Ort . possible of our Volunteer Force.' He should. wish to see the services of the Regular Militia to. be ex 4.:. tended to all parts of the Empire. With these provisions we would be safe against any. poisible in-, vision, Notwithstandirig, the very general erections of Fortifications, there Might be many exposed `pointi.. There should be depots olarnis in centrak situations, in which a trained population`wobld find -a rallying point. The Enerny,'if he could assail us, t ' Would bring a force that would require all our- means: of defence. • Lord CASTLEREAGH said,. it was the fixed ternlination of his Majesty's Government to tank . their . attenticm to the formation of a large local Wt.., litia, which was the measure most essential to -the . Permanent security of the Country. • He 'also pro-. mired attention to the formation of centyal . depot?..s With a view to this. objeEt, under the able Adral-.:, nistration of Lord Chatham at the head of the, Ord": nonce, a central depot had been formed (at Wee 4 0 .... Beck, in Northamptonshire), • from which great fa"- cilities to the Military Service of the Country had been found: In that Noble Lord's Administration also; a wise system of Defensive Fortification bad` been adopted in Ireland as well as in England. • • Mr. SHERIDiIiV bad : great satisfadion in hear' irig- that it was intended to apply the attention of 9overnment to the amelioration of the. Militia. fi e hoped his Majesty's Gevernment wou ld • at the same . time turn its attention to the means of rendering the. Ballot less oppresSive upon the loWer orders of the community. The Bill was then .passed.. Mr. SHERILMAY, in consideration of the third reading of 'the Irish Arms Bill, :and other ittportant 6usiriess fixed for .Friday next, particularly the 00- tice given by an Hon. Member (Mr. Bankes), with - a view to, prevent the granting of Offices in Rever- . sion, postponed till Monday his notice of motion on, the State•Of Ireland, which now stood for that day. The Irish Militia - Volunteering Bilf was read 3 third time and passed ; also the Sniuggling Pfeven-. tion Bill ; also the Silk Duty and Drawback Bill ; the Bill for Suspending the Drawbacks on the intordi course in home-made Spirits between Great Britain and Ireland. The other Orders of the Day were die posed of.—Adjourned. - . MAILS. ARAIVIM—t Lisbon, t Dublin, I 'Waterford. Gottenburgb, t Waterford. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT TWELVE O'CLOCK. Consols • • - 6th I Onintuin i dig. THE S UN. SOLZM QVIS DIC&RL FALUNT ALTDEAT ? LONIIQN, THURSDAY, AUGUST 6, 1807. -~~ A Messenger was sent off I,bt tight with pis' potcho to St. Petersburgh. Press,. respeoting Nothing had arrived when this Paper was pqt the Expeditions, towards ;which publicexpedatiQn is so anxionsly.diretto i .. It * s ;which