The Sun. — London, England, 1802-03-17 00:00:00

ele death of the late Duke of BEDFORD, which was not only a private but a public loss he hoped, ther,:- fore, lie should be excused in sayieg a few words iipon the SUbjetl, previous to making his intended rdotion. He was perfectly aware that was not the place, nor was it the brae to enter at large into such a subjea, but he felt the loss to ba so important, that he could not avoid saying a few words with respeCt to it. The Noble per•wn to whom he alluded, e,nd whose death was, lie beliee_ ed, as generally lamented as that of any subjeat ever had been. in this Country, had something so peculiar and so marked in his character, as to render him a person of the greatest iroportance.— He was unfbrtunately snatched away at a period o f life when he was still young enough to enjoy life, and still active enough to labour for the' public good—at 'a period too, when from his previous condua, the most vigilant and benevolent exertions for the public benefit, were to be expected as the result of his future life. It not unfrequently happened, that the fairest hopes derishi from the dawn of life, were disappointed in maturity ; but with respell to the Noble Person alluded to, the hopes which had been afforded in the early period of his life, were confireeed in maturity, in.which his charaCter became firmly and decidedly fixed. — That 'Noble Person came into the possession of high rank. and immense wealth at a time of life when he was surrounded by the greatest danger, by those dangers to. - which persons in his situation s% ere peculiarly expoed, from the sedudions of temptation aid the influence of flattery : but the.ogh thus situated, in the midst of prosperity, his character,' his mind, acquired all the firmness and energy which could be derived from adversity. There never was a man who gave himself up more completely to the public good : to that he was con -tiouelly looking in all his affions ; that was the sole bbjed of his Site. Enjoying a splendor almost Prince ly, still every selfish consideration was postponed, whilst the good of others formed the constant objeft of his wishes and his exertions. It was frequently remarked, that people. grew wiser as they grew older, it often happened however that as they advanced in years, they lost some of that warmth of feeling by which they had been actuated at an earlier period of life. Not so with the Noble Person he was now alluding to, no man ever cultivated any favourite science, or pursued any art, or followed any trade, with more solicitous and assiduous industry, than that Noble Person did the art of .doing good— whilst he improved every day not only in that, but • in'the most generous %vartzth of feeling. The great value of his character vas his desire of public utiii tv the great object of his life, the public good.— Instances were not wanting, or unknown ; to men tion, however, only one—the Agriculture of the Country, it was well known, was more indebted to him than to any other man. With resped to the Politics of that Noble Person, he found some difficulty in speaking of them before such an assem bly, as his political principles were those fbr which, though he might think he was entitled to the highest praise, yet others might think they de manded an apology. He believed there were few, however, who would not sometimes confess that their adversaries were entitled to . admiration and esteem. If in Rome a descendant of the family of Claudii was permitted to be aristocratical, in his opinion surely it might be alloWed to one who bore the name of Russel to cherish the political prin ciides of his ancestors. He could not forget that his ancestors had been attached to Liberty ; but whatever might be his opinions, his conduct had been firm and patriotic, manly and sincere. He -now came to the clo',e 'of what he had to say, and those who were solicitous to see the perfeEtion of the human character, would find that the death of this great and good man was conformable to his life. It might have been expected that his thoughts would have been concentrated in the extreme bodily torture which he ,endured, and in that awful event to - which he had to look forward ; he died, how_ ever, as he had lived, regardless of himself, and only solicitous to make those arrangements which might conduce to the happiness of others. He did not wi;,h, in saying, what he had said of the Noble Person, whose death was so deservedly lamented, merely to strew flowers upon his grave, but to raise a monument tohis fame in the memory of all around, that they might relate his virtues and his tCtions to their children, and talk of them to their friends. He concluded by moving, " That the Speaker do issue his warrant to the Clerk of the Crown, for a new writ for the- borough of Tavistock, in the room of Lord JOHN RUSSEL, now Duke Of BEDFORD." Mr. SHERIDAN seconded the Motion—which was agreed to. FINANCE OF IRELAND. Mr. CORRY moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Irish Duties Continuation Bin. On the question for the second reading,Mr. FOSTER said, that the objed of the Bill then before the House was, to continue at once .Eleven different Ads of Parliament and Duties to the amount of 3,000,0001. The Bill had, he said, been brought in in such a way, that they were completely taken taken by surprize, nor had they time to prepare for its discussion. Money Bills in Ireland had uniformly originated in the Commit tees of Supply, or Ways and Means, and became the subjed of several discussions, but as this Bill stofed, it contained 1500 articles of Duty, of which it was not possible to discuss one, as not one of them was enumerated in the Bill. He knew that a distieEtion had been taken between a COM mittee of Supply, and any other Committee of the whole House ; where the Supplies were wanted for the service of the year, and where they were not ; but he was of opinion, that this Bill was in a simi lar predicament with Supplies voted for the Service of the year, and that it ought to have originated in a Committee of Supply. There was no reason in existence why it should not have thus originated ; neither in the formation of the Consolidated Fund, nor with resped to the Civil List, which had been alluded to on a former occasion. The Civil List was voted in 17 93, not as a Grant of the Crown, but rather as a restridion, preifenting it from exer cising certain rights ; the Civil List was, however, charged on the Consolidated Fund, and must be con sidered only as an annual chase. There were se, etal other charges which must be considered in the same light ; amongst them was one on Account of the Officers of the House of Lords in Ireland,- who were now, however, provided for under the Ad a q Union. There was also a charge for the Payment of Thasury Bills. These Bills were not made pay able at any particular time, but the Parliament of Ireland being aware of the amount of them in cir culation, had uniforinly voted a sufficient sum to pay. those which were outstanding ; hut the Treasury was not authorized to pay a single Bill out of its Funds. The question was, whether this was to be considered as a permanent or a temporary mea sure ? If every article of the permanent Charge was admit:ed, it would amount to 3,500,0001.- 11e - Revenue continued by this Bill he would take at 3,000,0001. this added to the other re sources, would make a sum of 4,200,0001. ; if the permanent charge of 3,500,000!. was set off against this, there would remain 700,0001. which must un deubtedly fail within the province of the Com mittee of Supply. The whole Of the Revenue was, in fad, to be applied to the service of the year, yet this Bill was hurried through the House, so ob scured, as not to be known. - There was another objet of this Bill, which was, to continue Money Bills that passed previous to the Union, whilst the Ad of Union had altered all those Duties. This Bill continued above Soo Duties on the Manufac tures of Irelood, all of which were concluded by the Aft of Union ; _coo Duties which were im posed when Ireland was considered as a foreign country, and which tie At of Union had therefote abolished. If this was the case, is was impossible that the manufaelurers of Ireland could go on with confidence or security. There was a clause he ob. served in the present Bill, by which it might be al tered during the present Session, yet it appeared that the duties were to be continuod for nine months-, he could not approve of this mode, as it went to place the IVlanufadurers of Ireland in a state of the greatest uncertainty, they not knowing in consequence how they were to regulate their con dud, or to what they were to trust. Amongst the Duties to be continued by this Bill was the 6 per Cent Duty, for the 'repeal of which the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Co R R Y ) had himself present. ed a Petition, and which it was understood was adually to be repealed. What kind of Legislation was this--avowing at the time of enading a Tax, an intention of repealing it ? The House was called upon to direct its attention to the state of Ireland, and upon what documents ? How many Papers relative to that Country had been printed since the Union ? One, and one only, which pur. ported to be an Account of a year's Revenue, and the transactions of a whole year with the requisite vouchers, and when these vouchers were examined, they were found to he only for nine months, He did not know to what this contradidion was to be asctibed, unless it was to the propensity imputed to Irishmen of making. bulls. He was of opinion that the subject demanded an attentive and minute examination, and he thought it necessary to state to the House the situation of • Ireland, that it might be fairly appreciated. Last year the ba lance of trade was against Ireland to the amount of 2,000,0001. whilst in the year 1786 it was ',Sot:wool. in her favour, and since that year, there was a difference, taking the Exports and Imports together, of 2,700,0001. against her, out of a trade, which in the whole amounted only to 12,000,0001. The Shipping of Ireland had mate rially decreased. Her Debt, which in 1793, was only 2,300,0001. was increased, in 1800, to 36,000,0001, whilst the Debt of Great Britain was not even doubled within the same period. Such a situation required, it must surely be acknowledged, every, care on the part of Parliament, and every de gree of skill on the part of His Majesty's '',.aliniaters. The course of Exchange had also been against Ire land for four years preceding ; and for four or five years past, she had been in the habit of borrowing money from Great Britain. This situation was rendered still worse by the increase of Absentees, who drew from the Country immense sums. Upon the whole,lreland was drained of at least '5,000,0001. a_year, whilst nothing went into it. This seemed a paradox, which he had never been able to solve, nor could he conceive how the Country could sustain such a continual drain, without receiving any thing in return. If this brief notice of the situation of Ireland, should serve to rouse the attention of the House, there was no assistance which it was in his power to give relative to the subject, wiiich he would not chearfully afford, incase the House chose to proceed to the investigation. He did not wish to oppose the continuation of the Duties alluded to in the Bill, for a short period, as the money might be immediately wanted; but he objected to this Bill, understanding it was to be continued for nice months, because it prevented them from doing any thing relative to the-subjed during the present Ses sion. Why could not this Bill be voted in the same manner as the Supplies for England, for two months, the subject might then be taken up, and the State of Ireland discussed : let a new book of Rates be form ed for that Country, and all the old and obsolete Duties struck out. He was decidedly of opinion, that the Bill ought to he continued for two months only, instead of nine months, for which period it was now proposed to continue it. Mr. CORRY said, he should trouble the House as shortly as possible in reply to what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down. If the House had not been aware of the subject in discussion, it would have scarcely been possible to know to what part of the United Kingdom his observations applied.—The Right Honourable Gentleman stated, that he (Mr. Cokay) had drawn such a melancholy picture of the situation of Ireland, that it ought to call the attention of the House in a very particular manner to that Country. The Rt.lion.Gentleman was mistaken, he had drawn no melancholy pidure of the State of Ireland, nor was it necessary to do so in order to draw the attention of Parliament to the state of that part of the United Empire. If the Right Hon. Gentleman had attended . in his place in the last Session, he would have hoard him (Mr.. Co R y) when stating the Supply and Ways and Means for Ireland, instead of drawing a melancholy picture of its situarion, exult in the condition of its Fi nances, of its Trade, of its Industry, notwith standing its Peace and Industry had been interrupt, ed. The Right Icr. Gentleman knew, and ought trt candour to have stated, that if the manufaBures of Deland had declined, it was to be attributed, not as a fault the Minister, but to a raging re bellion, which for near a year bad desolated that country; nor was it perfedly consistent with can dour fur the Right Hon. Gentleman, when he was making his comparative 'statements of the Trade of ' Ireland, to seled the year immediately following that rebellion, when its effects were felt in their full force, and which therefore could not be fairly taken ;1.,, an example to shew the state of its corn merte. He must be aware of, and ought to have stated, that the decrease in some of the articles of Irish exportation were owing merely to the opera tion of temporary causes, which it was impossible to foresee or to prevent. The distressed stare of the consumers in general, in every part of the United Kingdom, from the scarcity which had pre. vailed, had undoubtedly , contributed to lower the consumption in both kingdoms, and particularly in the principal branch of Irish Exportation. But this was owing to the very great price to which the Linen Manufadure had arisen, which un doubtedly had a very great effect upon its sale ; because in consequence of the unparalleled high price of that article, the People of this Country had diminished their demands. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had forgot to add (for if he had not for gotten it he ought to have stated) what was the case with regard to that branch of Manufalure in the present year, he knew that the demand had again increased to a very considerable degree, and that there was every probability of the old Stock being taken off. It would have been but candid if the Right Honourable Gentleman had joined these observations to the others which fell - from him in the course of his speech. With regard to what had fallen from •the Right Hon. Gentleman respelling the increase of the debt of Ireland, he was mistaken if he supposed that he was communi. caring any secret to the House, for he (Mr. Co RRY) had the honour of stating it distinctly to the House last Session, when he stated the Ways and Means for Ireland. As to what he had said about the course of Exchange being against Ireland, surely the Right Hon, Gentleman could not suppose it was in the power of the Minister, or even of Parliament to afford any remedy; he really did not exped to hear an observation of that kind from the Right Honourable Gentleman, because he must know that these out-goings could only be remedied by the scale being turned in favour of Ireland, which could not be effeded at once by a parliamentary regulation. But he wished to ask the Right Honourable Gen tleman to point out what measure which it was in the power of Administration to propose for the be nefit of Ireland that had been negleded Here again he could not but lament that the Right Honourable Gentleman had not attended in his place previous to the Christmas , recess ; if he had, he would have heard the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER express the most anxious solicitude about the state of that country ; he would have heard him express a wish to avail himself of the wisdom of Parliament with regard to the article of Corn—an article so important to Ireland, and one from which she derived so much advantage. The Right Honourable Gentleman knew, that if the produce of that. article had not been so abundant as heretofore, it was owing to the hand of Providence, and could not with any propriety be attributed as a fault to Mini sters. He must be aware, that to the same cause only must be attributed the general decrease in the exportation of provisions, and particularly of pork. The Right Hon. Gentleman therefore, when he was speaking of the state of Ireland, ought to have stated that many of the effeds which he deplored, could only be attributed to temporary and unfore seen causes, and were therefore not in any degree to be considered as permanent. He trusted, there fore, that the good sense of the People of this Country and of Ireland, would not suffer them to be alarmed at the statement which the Right Hon. Gentleman had thought proper to make. The Right Hon. Gentleman had complained, that the Trade of Ireland had not been attended to. In answer to this, he could only beg of him to look to the Bills which passed last Session for bonding of sugar and of port, a system which had never been prat ised in that country before, except in the ar ticle of tobacco. He had made these few observa tions, because they related tg, a subjed which ap peared to him to be extremely important. When he came to state the Supply and Ways and Means for the year, he should have an opportunity of going more into detail upon the subjed. He was now at issue with the Right Honourable Gentleman upon two points, viz. The point of Order, and the principle of the Measure under discussion. The Right Hon. Gentleman had long been acquainted with the forms of another House of Parliament, which now no longer existed, but he appeared not .to be perfedly conversant in the forms of the House of which he was now a Member. Both last year, and on the present occasion, Mr. CORRY said, he had, as 'he was hound in duty to do, conformed himself to the rules and orders, and the present was exactly conformable to these rules ; in adopting this line of condud, he conceived he was ading in conformity to his duty, and consequently was, he conceived, free from every imputation of blame. The perma nent charges were not considered as charges for the service of the current year, but the Right Hon. Gentleman had contended, that they ought to be voted in the Committee of Supply, and provided for in the Committee of Ways and Means. In the Committee of Supply it was only regular to vote the Supplies for the service of the current year, and the provisions made in the Committee of Ways and Means were only to cover what was voted in the Committee of Supply. The provisions made in this Bill were not for current services, but for permanent charges, and therefore they could not have been voted in the Committee of Supply, nor ,provided for in the Committee of and Means ; he therefore contended, that he had aded upon this occasion in stria conformity with the rules and or ders of the House. With regard to the principle in dispute between them, his objets was to grant perma nent supplies to cover permanent charge;,, .he wished to follow the example ofGreat Britain in this instance, so necessary to the security of the public creditor. On the other hand, the Right Hon. Gentleman was desirous (and, he confessed it appeared to have some. thing of a resemblance to a bull) to ID- m r , annual provision for permanent charges. Hi 3 1. an d CORRY'S) wish was, to put the public Credit°_ as $ the Crown, who with regard to the Civil laisti7.ttes purchaser for a valuable consideration, up on a ncdif, footing than they now stood. This w as the od ference between the Right Hon. Gentleman ra himself, and he would' leave it to the lion se , oo decide which was in the wrong_ He had 1,,0s a former occasion apologised, and stated hi s red ;0, 7 to the House for not proposing, in the p i r )c e r s rn en a, ' l i „ at stance, to make these provisions for charges also permanent. He had stated as h is ' r i l e ctise, the present situation of Public Affairs). i t impossibility of knowing what EstabliShmen'olor might be necessary to keep up, what the all ' i a t at of the Loan necessary for the present year ° l a g be, on which, to form a calculation for l' rnv ` ht be , for the Interest, and what improvements made in the collection of the Revenue cf Ire' a i re a so as to increase its produce. He had the ple"' u o da stating, that very great improvements had hNn Il i:0 , r in the colledion of the Revenue of that ti t. under the Administration of the present Lord L i s of (Lord HARDWICAR), and through the exerti° i te , rma ian j a gentleman to whom that country was grea tl . 3r lac debted, and ofwhom he would say much more I fit had not now the honour of addressing Ilit n ' l t he would only say, that by. his being called to hirerf chair of that House, Ireland had sustained a u o severe loss. 'lt appeared to him that it w n re , have been improper for him, under all the f re , sent circumstances, to have attempted in th e ° 'ben sent Bill to make these provisions permanent) era in7the course of a -few months he should h e oO at r 1 abled to do it in a more .distind and sati sf•a ..,,, t it manner, and therefore he had forborne to atte'"Jfeso on the present occasion. Th e r e were some t i e , other points in the Right Honourable G en r js. man's speech upon which he would say a few vl , ° wl He had .truly stated, that the Consolidate(' *rest was made liable in the first instance for the illt ,; the of the public. debt and the Sinking Fund, a r ., n , ri eet Right Hon. Gentleman had inferred from t " - s ata that this fund was not applicable to the och e ' l e iti vices for which provision was proposed to be Ina i f ? this Bill, because it was only applicable to Tod. terest. of the public debt, and the .Sinlaingd not But the Right Honourable Gentleman co ol a ace have looked at the papers upon the Table, P e- ace; those papers contained a list of those very ter con. to which he admitted this fund was appliCahl e ',4; sequently there was no foundation for the ' a r g il!. Honourable Gentlemaa's observation. The ' jot Honourable Gentleman bad stated, that Union had repealed all former ads in Ireland ° P p spdting the Revenue ; but this was not quite c :,) reet : the Aa of - Union had only repealed 5.'.,3 The C4 a , ads .as were. inconsistent w ith it. .List was a permanent charge,. given to His i , j 1 . 41 jesty for a most valuable' consideration, and s nor be considered in any other light than th3 aia; a permanent* charge, for which permanent Prsl the A , sion was to be made. With regard to the Tre as i te d Bills, all the Acs of Parliament that di r A e li4 their issue, directed also that they shoot e at payable on a fixed day, The day of parl if was contained in the body of the Bill, ° Ol3O utnotirieo revenuesnciscolra Consolidatedr t g i e ie d r , eb must be c b o e in taken i n g a in io e paymentrrn a.nova ° a l i t / anticipationund o . f . th iLt l'e li v r wes°;j l- 14 :a ; :saf/ . a moanent, put the consideration of th e ' I I tbo Bills out of the question, and would tell. Right Honourable Gentleman that the P"r i a I -ft; Charges alone were more i n amo unt than t venue now- proposed to be taken. He nl ean „ t raiat e the Interest of the National Debt, and those r ant° nent Charges which were now to be take n oe o joint estimate, and were to be defrayed h e C ge , the two Countries, exceed the amount of th e b oll venue proposed to be voted. If, on the dli er 0 14 the Revenue exceeded the s e Ch a rges, the case tba doubtedly would be different; but eveo then of e Surplus would have been at the disr s , t o' Parliament: 'ln the last year, the. atn n e - 00 1 ' the Revenue was something more than 7 , a4° ° ,, u tgi c) and the permanent' charges, were ah°,,t a - ,atf million and a half, independent of the .1 1." tire- Bills. He was afraid these observations We!' e fi apo some to the House, but upon such a sublea' h , e „ alO n ; the House would excuse him. The Rig",i tha t Gentleman had represented him to have said , yr , there was not a shilling left in the TrcastlrY ° 0 001 land. 'The time was not yet come for hitn pool the situation of Ireland' upon this point; 'h e i rr a e 1 : have an opportunity of doing so when he c ", , 10' state tke Ways and Means for that county/' ' cha r the INt Honourable Gentleman kn e ," DO; there x , was not a shilling that remained in we t yo' jar/ of Ireland at the close of the 135 a - 6ritY that Government could touch without the a nc- a atO e d of the House, and when the Ways a nd Meansr, ail to be yawed to cover the Supplied of the Y e. " s - 00 5 monies , remaining in the Treasury would) as Of the case last year, be brought to the c redit t end' Public. The Right Hon. Gentleman had c ‘ n a r ,io o l l . ed that this Ad was contrary to the At/ °:', vibe' because it proposed to enact .several Dot`e-ci, if were obsolete ; but in this lie was not corre' ar ioo° cause it enaded the Dutie s , subject to the v a c / A modifications which had be en s i nce a dopted' all et ° sequently was perfedly cons i stent . with th e 0 V' Union. It did not enact t h e D ut i es a s they W e 1 12 e fore, but as they stood after the Ati of Union this Right Hon. Gentleman had a l so c ontended tb ist er4 Att contained regulations which were inen a :o fo r with the Ad of Union ; but this was not Orr', the} this Ad contained no regulations WhateVer ,i w hen would be the subject of separate Bills, ' i ts ° , tin ° they came before the ‘House, i t would ' Gen f enough to objet to them. The Right 110, ~ o ,;ate. a f tlernan had also contended, that front the 11-0 Y of this Bill, it would be impossible ta ' o bjeet I° ,, e a ' . the duties which it enacted. He could 00 0 ' ale' .gfe - r what ground the Right Hon. Gentleman n'` , , np aten an observation, because it was perfcetlY c°— 'l9` ii° ile "lie to any Gentleman to oppose a ny one of t q . 1 which it Was proposed by this Bill to en'',, l r ', O eot I V Right Hon. Gentleman had next Proc eede''. ' `chic • - Billt 'awl, ;tient upon the Clause at the end of tit' , Sessl - ir allowed it to be altered during the rase.' ra e c''' . and had taken an opportunity of In 4 ki n g 5° ° Pr servations, which appeared rather iosid'''' : ia I' le the alterations which had taken place hoc year talc' :e