The Sun. — London, England, 1802-03-16 00:00:00

IMPERIIIL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS, MONDAY, MARCH IS. Mr. ADAM, for the Appellants was heard at con_ siderable length, respeeting the Scotch Cause, Lo. thian and Others 'Henderson, Riddell, and Co. Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL was then heard as leading Csunsel for the Respondents, after which their Lordships postponed the further hearing till to-morrow. , The Order of the Day for the consideration of His Majesty's Message respefting the Civil List, and on which their Lordships were summoned, being read, Lord PELHAM rose, and a' ddressed a few words to their Lordships on the occasion, and seemed to advert, as his principal reason for wishing the Order to be postponed, to the state in which the business stood in the other House of Parliament ; this induced him to move that the Order in ques tion he discharged, and a new one made for taking His Majesty's most gracious Message into consi deration on this day se'nnight, and that the Lords be summoned thereupon. This, on the Question being put, was ordered accordingly. The Earl cf CARLISLE rose, and in effea observed, that he felt a considerable degree of em barrassment with respea to the present very im portant and delicate situation of the Country ; he did not mean then to make what he had to observe upon the subjea, a specific Motion ; indeed in that point, under the present circumstances, he should feel a degree of difficulty. What he alluded to principally was, the circumstances of this Coun try with respea to the great and important subjea of the Negotiation, the recent aggrandizement of France, and what appeared, in some degree, to be an alteratibn in the system of His Majesty's Councils. On these points he thought he was 'warranted in calling upon Ministers for some information': with resped to the last point he adverted to, he thought there was more than a spirit of energy displayed ; but with respea to the general grounds, he thought some explanation should be given ; and he also thought the House should be informed whether or not the Definitive Treaty was soon to he expeded. In regard to this latter topic, he knew it would ill become him then to agitate any thing like a question, nor should he then offer any opinion affeaing even the Preliminary Articles, as, in addition to other objections, he conceived he should unworthily engross their Lordships' time, and mis. spend his own. But his principal object in rising was to call the serious attention of the House to the very importart topics he had adverted to, and to impress, their Lordships with the consi deration that it was absolutely necessary they should be informed respeding these points, in order to, be enabled to form a sound judgment of the merits of the Pacification. ,He thought that Ministers should state, what conduct, on the part of France, called for such an alteration in their system. There were. many circumstances of public notoriety, he was aware, which might call for an alteration in their system—such were the recent additions said to be made to the territories of that Power. There might be a considerable degree of difficulty with re •spea to the Treaty as affecting Spain. The circum stance of France obtaining a port in the Mediter ranean, was also a serious consideration—still more so, would he the cession of Florida to France, which would give that Power the command of the Lee ward Islands. On all these important points he thought the House should be duly informed ; with respea to himself he felt a degree of embarrassment on the occasion ; on any specific line of proceeding he was not then determined, but he trusted the candour of Ministers in satisfactorily explaining the points he had adverted to, would in a great measure relieve him. Lard PELHAM, in observing on what fell from the Noble Earl, seemed to say, that in the present situation of affairs, he could see no possibility of relieving the embarrassment felt by the Noble Earl.—The House would obviously be aware that the greater part of the Noble Lord's observations were upon :,übjeCts not at all under the deliberation of Parliame►►t ; and with respea to the informa tion adverted to, it could not be satisfaetorily given but through the medium of authentic documents.— With respeCt to the situation of France, his Lord ship repeated, that in the present circumstances, be did not see what he could say that could relieve the embarrassment of the Noble Earl. With re gard to the line of conduCt pursued by His Ma. jesty's Ministers, and the degree of spirit mani fested by them, be it more or less, these, as well : ► s the other points adverted to by the Noble Lord, could be regularly discussed when the general sub jeCt came before the House ; until then, his Lord ship seemed to say, he should reserve himself, and that at present he did not feel it possible to answer the Noble Earl. The Earl. of CARLISLE observed, that the Noble Lord seemed to mistake him if he thought he meant at this time to press for any answer.— However the combination of circumstances, as ap. plying to one of the Parties in the Negotiation, as well as the condition of that Power; caused the embarrassment to which he had alluded. H i e could not, without a correvondent degree of anxiety, contemplate the vast accession of territory to France; withrespea to this consideration, lie thought it in cumbent on Ministers to take the first opportunity to lay information before the House. In this view then Noble Earl seemed to say, that France was to be considered in a. different light from what she was at the signing of the'Preliminaries ; whatever zhe.might then have been, by ihe_aggrandizenients he -,Liad adverted to, as well as the. accession to her terri tory in Sodtb America, which gave her the com mand of the river Amazons, her power w,as become of the most gigantic nature. He said this, principally with a view to put the House upon its guard, and point out , the nature 'and importance of the topics on which their Lordships should be informed, in order to enable them to - form their opinions upon the general subjea. Ile various Bills before the House were then forwarded ie their respeaive stages, and some I'rivate Busbiess was disposed of. Lend REDISDALE (Chancellor of Ireland) called the attention of . their Lordships to a circum stance which was of considerable importance to the correaness and regularity of the proceedings of that Mouse. He alluded to the eledion and return of Irish Representative Peers to sit in thelmperial Parliament. Some degree of difficulty had arisen in the construc tion of the relevant part of the Ad of Union with Ireland, and also of another Ad of Parliament, in some degree connected with it, with respell to those Peers who haveacceded to Irish titles since the Union. He was not then fully prepared, but .he should to . - morrow submit a proposition to the House on the subjed ; the object of which, as we understood the Noble and Learned Lord, was, to settle the rights and mode of elec=ting to be exercised by those Peers who have acceded to their titles in Ireland since the Union ; and he observed that most pro bably it should be for the appointment of a Com mittee to take the - subjed into consideration. The Marquis of SLIGO expressed his approba tion of what had fallen from the Noble and Learned Lord. He felt aware of the necessity of some re gulation upon the point, but added, that it would 'be necessary to extend it further than to Peers of the description adverted to by the Learned Lord. The Bencoolen Settlement Bill was brought up from the Commons by Mr. ALEXANDER, who as well as Mr. DlcKtr:soli and other Gentlemen, brought up several Private Bills; those were re speCtiVely read a first time, and an order made for sending a printed copy of the Marquis of Dowry_ SHIRE'S Estate Bill, and the Report of the Judges thereon, to Ireland. After which, their Lordships adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MO-NDAY, MARCH 15. MR. MAT NWAR !NG brought up the Report of the Committee appointed to take into consideration the Petition of the Coroners of this Kingdom. The Report being read, Mr. MAINWARING said, that it must be ob vious to every Gentleman, that the allowances made to Coroners, were by no means adequate to the ex. pence which they necessarily incurred in discharge of their duty, he therefore moved for leave to bring in a Bill for granting additional Allowances to Coroners, in consideration of the increase of their expellees, &c. Sir W. ELFORD supported the Motion. He said, that, in the County of Devon, he knew the Coroners were obligee? to attend the Assizes, and the Quarter Sessions, at a , very considerable ex pence, and were often o'L:iged to remain during the whole time of the Assizes, without any adequate compensation ; and as they were in general profes sional men, the loss of so much time must be a very great inconvenience to them. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. Tlf Order of the Day for the second reading of the Newcastle Light House Bill being read, Mr. BURDON said, he was instructed by his Constituents to oppose the Bill. He should, how ever, wait till the Bill came out of the Committee; and if, what he conceived to be the objectionable parts of it were not altered, he should state his ob jeCtions °wale third reading. After a few words from Sir M. W. RIDLEY, the Bill was read a second time, and was ordeted.to be committed. PARISH APPRENTICES. Mr. W. BOOTLE rose, in pursuance of his No tice, to call the attention of the House to the subject of Parish Apprentices. He said, the present mode in which these Children were put out Apprentices, was highly objectionable : from its not being known where they were, it was often impossible for their friends to see them ; and from its not being known where they were, these poor Children were deprived of property which they might otherwise acquire. lie should therefore propose, that the Overseers of the different Parishes should be compelled to keep Registers of the Names of the Persons to whom Parish Children were apprenticed, the natures of the Places where they were sent, Stc. under certain penalties. He had been urged to embrace, in this Bill, some other parts of the Poor Laws, which re. quired alteration, but he had thought it better to confine it to this point. He then concluded with moving for leave to bring in a Bill for the purposes above-mentioned. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. PRIVILEGE. Sir W. ELFO.kI) rose to call the attention of the House to a subjea of great importance, anti one in which it was materially concerned. The subjea to which he alluded, was a misrepresentation of what fell from a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite to him (the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER), in the course of - the Debate on Friday last. The misrepre. sentation of which he complained, appeared in one of the Morning Papers : it stated, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed a decided intention of proposing to repeal the Income Tax. He was present at the Debate to which he alluded, and he did not hear the Right Hon. Gentleman express any such intention. He' had merely exprwsed a wish, that an Hon. Gentleman who had made a Motion upon the subjea, would withdraw it, as it was his intention to propose to submit some Papers to the House respeling it. Sir WILLIAM then read the mis-statement of which he complained. •He was then proceeding to state another misrepresentation of much greater importance, when he was called to order by Mr. BANKS, . who said, that the House must see the extreme disorder, impropriety, and incon venience that must tesult from discussing subjeas of this kind, in this way. There was not, at present, any Question before the House, nor had the Hon., Baronet intimated any intention of concluding the observations he was-making, with any MOtion. In deed, the Hon. Baronet could not make any Motion grounded upon what he had now stated, unless it was a Motion founded upon a Breach of Privilege. If the Hon. Baronet would say, that he had an intention of making such a Motion, he certainly would not interrupt him ; but if the Hon. Baronet did not ex press that to be his intention, it would certainly be disorderly, and contrary to the best proceedings and praaice of that House, for him to proceed. He trusted that . the SPEAKER would give the sanaion of his authority to what he (Mr. BANKS) had ad vanced respediniihepoint of Order.. The SPEAKER salci, he thought it is duty to explain to the House why he had thought it right to permit the Hon. Baronet to proceed. He thought he was bound to give credit to an Honourable Member who was making a complaint, so far as to suppose that he would conclude with making a motion. It certainly was in the Hon. Member's power to bring A - hat he had said, in order, by con_ eluding with a Motion; and therefore he thought it was his duty to presume that he would do so. Sir EL FO D said, that it was not his inten tion to submit any 'Motion to the House.. TIeCHANCELLOR ofthe EXCHEOUER said, he really could not avoid taking some notice of this last misrepresentation, which had produced pressions directly the reverse of those he meant to convey. Certainly a more gross misrepresentation of what fell from him on Friday could not be made. M. DICKINSON moved the Order of the Day for the third reading of the Clergy Non- Residence Bill. The Bill was read a third time and passed. Mr. CORRY moved, Odle Order which had been made for bringing in t'Bill pursuant to the Re. solutions of the COmmittee,.,to whom certain ac counts respeCting the Irish Revenue had been referred, should he read. The Order having been read, Mr. CORK Y said, he should move to discharge that Order, for the purpose of proposing another, with this alteration, viz, that instead of '' a Bill," that " a Bill or Bills," should be-ordered. to be brought in, pursuant to the said Resolutions. The original Order was then discharged, and the new one, proposed by Mr. Coarty, was agreed to. Mr. CORRY moved, that the accounts present ed by Mr. CRoFToN, respecting the Revenue Ireland, should be printed.—Ordered. General GASCOY NE said, he was aware I:iat objedions had been made to the - prad;ce of asking questions of Ministers resveding their intentions about bringing forward public business, hut he wished to ask a question respelling the Bill for bonding Sugars, which would soon expire. He wished to know whether it was the intention of Ministers to propose to continue it ; and- it would also be important to know whether it was true, as had been, reported, that Ministers meant to extend the bonding system to other articles of West India produce ?. The CHANCELLOR of tlie EXCHEQUER said, that with regard to the 'first part of the Hon. Gen tleman's question, it certainly was the intention of the Government to propose to continue that till, and they also had it in contemplation to propose to extend the Bonding System. CIVIL LIST. Mr. BRAGGE brought up the Report of the Committee to whom the Paper respeding the Civil List had been referred. ' The Report was ordered to be read, and the Clerk having rend the Title, The CHANCELLOR of t h e EXCHEQUER said, he presumed it could not be the wish of the House to have it read at length, as he should move to have it printed. The Report was then ordered to lie on the Ta. ble, and on the Motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER it was ordered to be printed. 'The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to give notice, that if the Report should be printed time enough to be delivered to the Members on Thursday, he should, with the per mission of the House, propose to refer it to the Committee of Supply on Monday next. If, how ever, the printed copies of the Report should not be ready for delivery oh Thorsday next, he should de. fer his :Motion for referring it to a Committee of Supply till a future day. He wished to state, that in consequenee of an Order of the House, two books, kept in the Treasury, containing accounts of grants for special service, and of His Majesty's bounty, had been presented to the House, and referred to the Committee. He now begged leave to move, (the purpose for, which these books were produced being answered) that they should be returned to the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury. The House would be aware, that these books would be at all times forth-coining, if it should be necessary again to have recourse to them : but as • the immediate purpose for which they had been produced was an .swered, he should move that they be returned. Mr. TIERNEY said, that no man could feel greater respect for the Gentlemen who composed the Committee-than he did, but at the same time he thought it light, that the House ought to have all the documents before it, that had been referred to the Committee. The Committee, he supposed, had . made extracts from the books, but the House might wish to peruse the whole, and therefore the House ought to have every document before them. Mr. BRAGG E said, that the Hon. Gentleman was mistaken, in supposing that the Committee had made partial extracts from those books. Their contents would be found in the Report, and conse quently the books themselves could be of no use ; besides, if the House should, at any time, want to inspect them, they would, of course, be again pro duced, in consequence of an At of Parliament, which required that they should be kept in the Treasury for that purpose. At all events, it would be better to wait till the Report was printed, and then the House would be able to judge whether it would again be necessary to produce them. Mr. TIERNEY said, it appeared to him that the Report could only contain extracts ; but, with out any impeachment of the Committee, Gentlemen might wish to examine the books themselves. If there were no other copies of those books, or if they were wanted for any particular purpose, that might be a reason for returning them. The C.VI ANC ELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, there were no other copies of these books kept ; but it must occur to the .House, that in the course of the proceedings upon this subjed, in an other House of Parliament, it would perhaps be ne cessary to produce them. He begged to assure the House, with the greatest sincerity, that he did not wish to conceal any one article contained in these books, and if the Report should, upon examination, appear not to be completely satisfadory upon this part of the subjed, he would support any Motion tbr their reprodudion. • At present, he thought it would he more regulai that the books should be re. turned. It Mr. BR "IGOE slid ; (nal` t:t:i Committee 01! made no arbiti.iry extricis from ;:liese booK' ;. whole contents were stated. If, up to;) exatni"ati°'a it should appear that it had been done in ) icwse , manner, it would be open to the Hon. Gentled far • or any other Member, to call for a more partici; account. Mr. TIERNEY said, he was still of opinion the books should be retained. ,111 , 7: upon perusing them, formed an opinion, and it th right that the , House should have before t t ilen% documents upon which that opinion was,foiri e “; e 3 Mr. BRAGGE said, the Committee had fora no opinion or conclusion upon the subjea ; they. rate analysed the accounts contained in these hook s .' f :d ic examined them in every possible way ; : 1 t he ex plicit, - Report was not found to be sufficiently books might be produced again. Mr. TIERNEY said, that this 'roe Committee ilwauss ceeding, and that when the Report came to be t.i et , into consideration, the Members of the Con",.”, f ict ir , NV;IS new . l ke a would be in a different situation from the other . I " e ,,y e bets of the House, because the former would 11 " seen the books, and the latter would not. trn it ber BRAGGE contended, that every .I'.` c , - „, be su e in the same situation, unless it coui", supposed that the Committee had made a Par tial` leftion. Mr. FANS ITT ART said, that if this %" 5 3 i, a new proceeding, it should be recolleded tl d,, was the first time these books had been Pr(" l— ,, o If the 'Committee had ailed fairly, and of tAa doubt could be entertained, the produdion of books cculd throw no further light upon the a ll ot If any Gentleman entertained a ' jiff : e t - re el ininoo, he might move to have ti,:::; .fl:cause they were kept for Parliamentary i" 4) ,"„,„, tion. But unless their contents were more ac-30 rarely explained than any Member could have lei opportunity of doing while they lay upon . the r i% L ui j they might lead to improper conclusions ; it " ) „. c tt therefore be better to see their contents atal l w under proper heads in the Report. The Motion was then agreed to. VACCINE INOCULATION. to Admiral BERKELEY said, he had Petit' d- if present from a Person to whose labours rio t this Country but Europe, and-even the whole ° was indebted for the greatest benefits. Th e w, valuable discovery of the Gentleman in quest* of would tend to rid - mankind of one of the 19 ,,, 1 1 dreadful disorders th a t ever attacked the hu"--t.c frame. The House, he was sure, w ould antic i Pil. s , what he was going to say : he- alluded t o the u' re covery of Vaccine Inoculation, by Dr ' Jenne rt' , After the most laborious study, after going to Fo ot siderable exp ence , i n or d er t o asce rtain his discovery, the Doctor with a had, t h e alert! 3 ge nerolT liberality, and modesty insepar a bl e from true n 7 rib; communicated the result of his inquiries 10 " - he world. If he had pursued a contrary condual would have realised a princely fortune. Out o f b ig thousands and thousands who had benefited b y discovery, this Gentleman was the only per had derived no advantage from it. AL in t of BERKELEY then read an Extract from a of the Secretary of a Committee appointed to c • t i a zfl mine into this subject, in whi c h it Ivo St t tiVit be a most invaluable discovery. He was a-r's— he should fail If he was to attempt to corn raen i t n iand all the advantages that . wo u ld r e su lt t oiti bola from this discovery, therefore, at present, h e fie . only request leave to present the Petiti ° % ce ot. was, however, afraid, that as the time for P r— p. c es , ing private Petitions was past, it would b e n- t bis sary to present a Petition for leave to present Petition. • '• t/ The SPEAKER said, it would be nece ss3 : • present a Petition for leave to present it. CORN REGULATION. nyL eN The CHANCELLOR of the .EXCHEV; v eo said, he rose pursuant to the intimation he hatik ri joe to the House, to move for a Committee to.lloiP the state of the Corn Trade between Gret,':suh` and Ireland. In making regulation's upon be jeer, it appeared to him that there ought t'r that free intercourse between the two Countries' J to they should have the means of adininisrer'!?rin; each others wants, and that the deficiency e cail et% in some parts, might be supplied by the ;lb ° o ari which existed in others; and if it were 'flec e o ,f 3 to impose any restrictions, they ought to bc: , e ir.s general, and not of a partial nature. In regu`";uar ' the concerns of England and Wales, NO° 100 Country was first annexed to England, or at of Dor in a very short time after,, the great °Wet Ancestors was to identify the two Coun t i(lo, rle i%lie The same policy was adopted at the Perio o : ast Union between England and Scotland, ar l ' r , the be the wish of every, man who wished well to Empire at large, that the same polieY, prevail between Great Britain and The fad was, that for reasons which It 3,, by not necessary now to advert to, in th e 3 ,, bv . of Corn,. there 'was a prodigious differenc tween ' the two 'Countries. There were 11 110 J stances in which the price of Grain in Ire lailt rt of been nearly double the price of the same s° iron' Grain in Great Britain, and this had arisen wise the operation of Laws which had been thoug ht were and expedient when they were adopted. Til e7 k ing' ena&ed at a time when Ireland w:e. a separatt; t tr= 'dom, and when it was of great importance ro c r i lior f Legislature of this Country to give every' ' 3 v rice, to cultivation. By these Laws, the exon r : t e ` ana of Wheat was fixed at 455. a quarter; of R 3 ea", Barley, 235. a quarter ; and Oats, :ss. 9 ( 1 . a vi d 0 ter. He stated the price by the quarter in s . r bic ,/ the barrel, in order to make it more intellib . ro of 3 • But he contended, that even if Ireland wer e e - con" separate kingdom, these prices ought not t nt tinue. They were fixed under very diff .e(e ., wer e cumstatlces, and when the prices of G r i ° ,,, t r pforef much lower than they now we re, and c ''' s iterit' even if the Union had not taken place, sn i i ne w , tion ought to be made iri them. fie- 1 . 0 3 K e difficult it was, upon such a subjed as th' s ' t on or °. a great change by the immediate ad"P l w isdnl ts , new principle, however incontestable the ioies si of it might be. Upon ail general Prir^ c ;n 3 6tiQr,' s would be wise to get rid of all di st " ,iona° respeding Corn between'Great Britain ana fora'. cline as had been 'done in the case of Scotland; 2 : 0 * head no more distindion ought to subgist bet's/