The Sun. — London, England, 1802-12-23 00:00:00

11V1PERML P/IRLIAMEN7. HOUSA OF PEERS. WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 22. AFTER some routine and private business was 4§Aposecl of, the various Bills before the House were 041orwarded in their respective stages ,T ; these mostly stood for,Comniittees, and accordingly they passed A t through that stage. Two Bills were brought up from the Commons, and read a first time. The Order of - the Day being read, for the House .to resolve itself into a Committee, upon the Navy Abuses Bill, upon the Question being put, The DUKE of'CLIIRENCE rose to oppose :the proceeding, and to urge .a variety of objections against, the measure, He thought that on a Bill of so great importance, and such an extensive opera tion, the Noble Earl who presided at the Admiralty 'Department, and who must naturally be supposed to be the chief promoter of the measure, ought io have attended,' in order to state the grounds and 'reasons on which he founded it. The Bill as it stood was, in his estimatiod, at best nugatory and ineffectual; and it was drawn up in so objedionable a 'manner, as that the person who framed it (s 6 we understood His Royal Highness) must have 'consi. derably misguided His Majesty's Servants; and he' thought it reprehensible that the Bill should be in troduced at stjch a time, that its discussion should take place at such a period of the Session, when a full attendance could hardly be expefted. He con sidered 'the' Bill - as unnecessary, because he con ceived that the Admiralty and other Boards were, under their present' constitutions, endowed with sufficient powers 'to 'attain the objeets of the pre. sent Bill, and for the'correEtion of the Abuses com plained cf. Abuses there might exist in different departments, but, he. could not avoid expressing his approbation of some of the Boards in the Naval Department, which he knew had, rendered essential service to the PL:folic, and done their duty to their King and Country ; he particularly instanced the Transport and Sick and Hurt Boards. In addition to theconsiderations 'he had stated, the Objeetions entertained against the Bill by a Noble and Learned Lord, 'thotigh he did not pretend to be 4r, adequate judge of that part of the'subjefl, were, in his mind, serious and weighty considerations against it. He }epeated his regret at the absence of the• Noble Earl at the head of the Admiralty ; and taking the mea sure in the most favourably point-. of view,' he thought it would be advisable, at least,.to defer it, until that Noble Person could attend, or to afford an opportunily of more maturely discussing the sub_ jett. 'He would therefore. move to amend the Oues tion, by substituting for the word this iday three months." The LORD CHAWCELLOR quitted the Wool sack, and observed, th;J if any thing had since passed in his mind to increase or fortify the objec tions he had entertained against the Bill, he should have little hesitation in 'supporting the Motion of the Illustrious Personage . ; hut upon mature and close consideration of the subject in general, he was induced to think that the _Bill may be ren dered serviceable to the Public, as to its proposed ends at the same time, those objelions, in a great ,degree, were obviated, which, On a former night, struck him so forcibly ; he , thought the measure undersonsideration.should meet with the most at tentive investigation their Lordships could give it, and _a Committee evidently was the fittest stage for such a discussion ) they would have to consider what the'defreiencies in the existing law,' as appli Fable to the subjel, were, and also to' ascertain bow far the powers of the different Boards alluded to extended.' These should be matters of grave consideration, previous to the I,egislature resolving toidelegate to any Commissioners or inferior Boards; powers - constitutionally vested in itself . Such how ever, was often the pradice of Parliament, when essential to the Public Service. With resped to the present measure, an idea seemed to have gone forth, that frauds, abuses,' irregularities and tills- Condlia altialiy prevailed to such a degree as to pall for public. animadvei•sion, Jn the light in which he saw the 4ubjf:Ct, the Bill did not warrant such a cqiclu,ion. Inquiry was the object, and on that head, he , had to observe, that in ahriost every other department of the - State, inries had been instituted ; not even the Judges invest_ minster-Hall were exempted': - not, however, on account of any suspipions existing of gross abuse in their departments, but merely Because, fol . the Public Service, inquiry hactbeeri deemed necessary. Ele did not, while he supported the Bill, assume that what was 'alluded to, would be the result of inquiry, but as the Public Mind seemed to be anxious on the subjc6.l, he thought it 5t to institute the inquiry, and its siw,estion, he thought, 're, Hefted honour upon the' promoters of the 'measure. With respet to any delay in the consijeration of the Bill, he thought the idea should 'not be enter tained,until its merits were at least previously and fully discussed by their Lordships. The Public Mind was anxious upon the subjea, and the Wes tion, as it immediately stopd before that House; was a very different one from that which ii was on its being first proposed... With respeet to the Noble Person at the lead of the Board of Admi- xalty, as alluded to by the Royal Duke, they had to lament, that the state of his health was such as to render him unable to attend in his place ; but there was little doubt that such a Bill as that in question, would not have found its way thither, except it . had the full approbation of that Minister. —Some of the reasons stater 'by the Royal Duke operated foi - cibly in frthur of the com mitment of the B;i1 ; to discuss them on the present question, would be irregular : the Cotninit_ tee was the propel stow. toy/hid), under every con sideration conne,;_ted xvith the subject, the Bill ought to be suffered to proceed. After it had gone through _ _ that discussion, a Motion may he made either for deferring, — or not passing the Bill ; besides, the .House would recolleet, that the Bill contained a power within itself for its further variation and amendment. . The DUKE of CLARENCE spoke shortly in ex- i)lanation, in which he expresbed the tir.ot de ference for the opinions of tiie Noble anci'Learned Lord on t 4 Wei!Aciack,' • ! a- • • The Question was then put, the Amendment proposed by His Royal Highness was negatived, a,id the House immediately resolved into a Committe r on the Bill, Lord WALSI NGFIALI in the Chair. The discussion of the various Clauses'andProvi sions of the Bill were then entered upon, and, the speakers were His Royal Highness the DUKE of CLARENCE, the LORD CHANCELLOR, Lord Vis count NELSON, and Lord ELLENBOROUGH. The two former Peers were several times upon their feet. In the Clause for nominating the Commissioners, the DUKE of CLARENCE considered those persons as by no means adequately d,.!fined, the appellation Esquire, not being su fficient for the purpose.— Every one knew that Sir Cu. IVlO'a lc E POLE, Bart. held a high rank, in His Majesty's Navy, but with resped to the next, it did not sufficiently appear who HENRY - NICHOL. Lt, Esq. was; he would therefore recommend that the description " a Cap tain in His Majesty's Navy," be inserted. ,This after some explanatory conversation between Lord ELLENBOROUOH and the Royal DUKE, ap peared to be held unnecessary by -the Committee, and the latter did not pass his Amendment. That part of the same Clause which relates to the business of Prize Agency underwent much dis cussion. The LORD CHANCELLOR Seemed to think this part of the subject had been better if kept se parate, and under a different class of provisions— The office of Prize Agent was in some sort known to the Law ; the business- was certainly liable to fraud and abuse as the Bill then stood,' and with those provisions in it ; he thought the Committee had -best turn their serious attention to the subject, and make the provisions as efficacious as they could ; he was therefore sorry to differ from the Royal Duke (who had 'suggested such a proceeding) as the pro prierrofleaying out _.that part of the Bill at present. Some farther 'conversation on the subject ensued between- the Noble and Learned Lord, the Dims of CLARENCE, and to'rd VikOllnt NELSON, the last .of whom, adduced some instances of grievance in the business in question; and argued for the appli cation of a - decisive and speedy remedy. To which the LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that as the -Commissioners were -to have power to report from time to. time on the business, no time need be lost ; and the DUKE of CLARENCE exi4ssed himself strongly, as to the aggravated nature of the frauds in the business of Prize Agency. An Amendment .to :this part of the Clause was adopted on the sliggestion of the LORD CHANCEL LOR r namely, between the words " specifying," and," such," the. wOrds " the nature of." • Subsequent parts of the Bill underwent some Amendments moved by the LORD CHANCELLOR, after some - discussion between him and His Royal Highness the DotcE of _CLAtt ENcE. Ori the provisions in the 'Bill, empowering the Commissioners to examine Parties on oath, as to Abuses, &c. a discussion of some length took place, and principally, on the part of the Loa o CHANCELLOR, who regarded these, as the most important part of the Bill ; and as some part stood worded highly objectionable, inasmuch as the words he alluded to, tended to induce 'a doubt, as to what was the . Law of the Land—they Seemed' to proceed upon a principle, which -was never adopted in the Legislation/ of this Countiy: the' ,effect of the Clause in question was to oblige persons to witness against themselves,' and furnish means for their accusation, which was confessedly. against the principle of the Law of England, which ordained that no man is bound to accuse himself, There was also a degree of incon sistency with respect to 'this . parf . 'of the Bill, as the next Clause to ,that in ceuestiOn went to enaet, that nothing which was so said shoUld tend to criminate..—ln commenting upon this reitt of the Bill in a constitutional and juridi cal point 'of -view, the 'Noble and Learned Lord displayed equal talent powers of discrimina tion, -and profundity of ; legal knowledge, and clear ly' pointed cut the objectionable effects which such a provision_must - have. To obviate Which, it was his intention to,propose to strike out (so we under stood:his. Lordship) ,the next COU‘se, anti to- intro . duce a provision in its stead, which he thought would have the desired effect. - On his Lordship reading it' to' the Conirnittee; it appeared', to the following general purport : " Provided always, that " no person be compelled 'to answer questions, &c. which may tend • to criminate themselves." • Lord ELLENBOROUGH expressed hiS coinci-, .dence in Opinion with the NOble Lord on the Wool, kad eeed to sa the Bill would be deter— livewtousuch a po,xmnatonsso conducted, 'if not directly criminating, may' afford a clue, and indirectly implicate the parties in ed. minal.charges. HOwever sacred he held this great principle of the English Laws, he wished not to be understood as saying, that cases of exigency may not arise,' in'which it might be necessary to draw the secret from the guilty bosom, With respeCt to the Bill; he thought it afforded matter of high praise and Commendation to thOse who brought it forward ; and the Learned Lord adverted to some instances, wherelte had opportunities, in his late official capacity, Of hearing charges of abue and fraud, in a very considerable degree, made against some of the De partments to be affected by the Bill. • The remaining,Clauses and Provisions of the Bill, after 'receiving some Amendments, were' agreed to with little comparative discussion ; • and, we under stood the Noble and Learned Lord on the Wool sack to say, that he had some further Propositions to offer, which it seemed to be his intention to,bring forward on a 'subsequent stage of the l. Bil The House then resumed, and ordered the Re port to be received to-morrow. A few private Orders were then disposed of; and the House adjourned, R ICE OF “STE S T'OCKS, RDA V. India Stock South Sea Stock Excheq.. Bills 3 to Fundable ditto, pleri. 3d Exchequer Bills dis.. Orninuin 4 54a- ji Imper. 3 per lent. 701- Ditto Ann. it 11-16 9-if ! dank for opening India for Ace. Cons. for Opening 73 !Sank Stock • Navy 5 per Cent. shut Cent . 1797, 19'2* 2 : I risk 5 per Cent. 4. per Cent. Con. 861 54i 3 rer Cent. Red. 74 7,4 3 per Cent. shut ';ittu S4.3ii , 51 5. i 6 1,10 )itto Short Ann. • ritto Scrip THI; DAY AT T COMOIS • ' • • • • 72 \VELVE O'CLOCK. °lll4lll/11 MAILS. Antrypb. DU*. French Harnburgh e - - - THE SUN. SOLFM QUIS DICERI FALSLIN A UDIAT ? LONDON, DECEMBER 23, 1802. YESTERDAY, after this Paper was put to Press, the Paris Papers of the rBth reached Town— We were, therefore, only enabled to an:iounce their arrival, and to make a short Extraft in a part of our Impression ; and this morning we received those of the 19th inst. the contents of which are extremely uninteresting.—Some new diffi culties appear to have arisen respeding the Indemni ties in Germany—The Sub-Delegate of Bohemia has presented a Declaration to the Deputation, in which he strongly complains of the conduft of the Mediat ing Powers ; but the determination of the Deputa tion upon this subjeft was not known. The French Funds have experienCed a small rise : they are at 54. By Letters from .Holland we learn, that four ad ditional demi-brigades are to be sent with Out delay from France into that country. It has been proposed to the Batavian qovern ment, by that of FranCe, not only to defray the ex.. peaces that may attend the fitting out and forwar'_ ing to its destination the French expedition which is' preparing at Helswetsluys, but also to discharge an ar rear of three months pay now due to the Troops which are to compose it. This proposal is understood to have drawn from the Batavian'Government some expres-: sions of smrprise ; and it is asserted, that they have declined it, with the remark, that their revenues, were, within the power of France, and that of course if she chose to dispose of them, she Could meet with ...rt -tio resistance : but that - the Batavian Government could never give their consent without. violating their duty, and betraying the trust reposed in them. Some of these Letters add,.that Breda, Bergen_ op-zoom, and some other fortresses in Holland, had been taken possession of by the French Troops. About a fortnight ago six sail of the line And two frigates, with troops, were under orders at, Brest. The former (it is stated) for the Isle of France, and the latter for St. Domingo. Yesterday His MAIEsTi held a Levee at St. James's, which was attended,4as .usual, by..the Fo reign and Cabinet IVLinisters; apd a number of .the Nobility and Gentry. • The Duke of CAMBRIDGE arrived Gn the 9th instant at Frankfort. Yesterday Lord HAvvittsi3o.Y. gave a grand Dinner, ..at his house in St. James's - square. Among the Company .were the following, 'viz: General ANDREOSSY and Suite, Mons. Scfm,t 7 TyiELPENNINCE:, Baron DE - JACOPI, • Lora: HER- t YEN', Sir EYRE COOTV, Sir Geoit.og SHEE, Mr. VANSITTART, Mr. HAMMOND, Mr. STEELE; &c. &c. The first and second Courses were served, upon silver, and the Dessert upon part of one of the four services of China sent as a present from BONAPARTE TO his Lordship. We understand they 'are all of the Seve Manufadory ; the pattern of the'service used yesterday, is similar to what hai been made for many years; the dishes for the fruit are oval, and the plates round ; the ornaments of each, upon the edges, are of gold, upon a white ground, taken from Pirepres;'s views of the interior decorations of the Vatican, consisting of hierogly phic figures, conneded together by elegant. scrolls ; the colour of the interior of the dishes and plates are of Massarene blue, with the letter H in the cen tre ; nothing can excel the beauty of the ,ouo en semble ; the transparency of the white is the most cl6ir ever seen.- Intelligence from Egypt states, that great mis understanding subsists between the English and Turks, and that the Mamelakes are masters of Upper 4 Egypt. 1 The condua of Prince RUSPOLI, in declining the office of Grand Master of Malta, is said to have re ceived the unanimous approbation of the Maltese. yesterday a Quarterly General Court was held at the East India House, when the dividend for the last half year was declared to be 5 per Cent. Mr. R. JAcitsoN asked if the Shipping Papers ordered to be printed half yearly, were nearly ready for publication ? The CHAIRMAN (Mr. R O BERTS) stated, that the extreme pressure of business had alone, prevented their completion, bin that they would shortly be laid before the Proprietors. Mr. R. JACKSON wished to know if the Com mittee for the Inspeaio of the Bye Laws had lately made any Report' ? And on being told by the Chair, that none had. been made for four or five years, expressed his surprize that a Committee formed for a particular purpose, should not think it expedient to report their proceedings. The. Court adjourned sine die. Early"on Monday morning, a fire was discovered in that part of Canonmills Distillery, near Edin_ burgh, where the steam-engine and grinding-mill arc creded. The various water-engines of the City were soon carried to the spot, and, by the at - tive exertions of the City Guard and 'the Firemen, as sisted by the servants belonging to the Distillery, the flames were prevented from attaching to any Other oils of the premise. NA PilL N 1 WS. PORTSMOUTH, DEC. 22. ARRIVED this evening His Majesty's shit' Thames, from Gibraltar. Arrived this day, the Admiral Colpoys, ADAM S master, from the Havannah in five weeks and thre e dais. She spoke on the Grand YanCc of N ewfound• land, lat. 42. 30. long. 49. the Ship Johnson, t o Boston, out 3s days, and saw a Brig, name unknowrls in eighty-five days from, Honduras. Passed by last night, the Ship Two. Frientis,,V° sl h from New-York to London. She spoke on th e t 2th inst. lat. 49 1. long. 26. the Ship Rrunrar► from Virginia to Liverpool, and saw a small Vesse l offSeilly, bottom upwards. Arrived the Amity, Los Top, from. Plymouth Betsey, FEATHERSTON, from Sheerness ; ittdl4"P DAVI E x from Sunderland. , • Sailed the Sans Saud, FoNTATNE, for Isigny. DEAL, DEC. 2Z. THE Hon. East-India Company's Ship ROO Caiile came down from the River this afteroo° 6 and remainc with Mujecty°. ch;pc Pomplate, l4# MOrtaute; and Jamaica, Arrow and Drivet Sloogo A new regulation is about to takee - place iri the manner of taking apprentices in the. Royal dock' yards, which, if carried into effect, will be bielf f advantageous to the service.' -In future, instead °t , apprentices being .taken indiscriminately, they' ar e to The to be the sons of commissioned or warr a nt offider. s in the Navy,.or sons of the artificers in th e naval arsenals. The pay and allowa n c e to a maste r .for his apprentice: during the seven years servitu de are very hard, for it is proposed, by wa y of 0 , 1 . - g couragement to . the. apprentices, to allow 1-3 6 u : bis, earning Jo be Applied to the use "of 'hi s . pare° c f s,guardians for his b oar d a nd l o d g i ng . ' • ' Yesterday a Court of. Di re a ors was held at t he -gast:india House; when the- undermettilimed tim e ! ! were ordered for the H u gh . Inglis, Calcutta,- I°':- .Castlereagh, and Charlt on , i n st e ad of thOSe f o rme r ; ly appointed : To be afl o at the 9 th o f jonori 1803, to sail to . Gravesend the 23d, stay die t/ twenty days, and be in --the D owns t h e 1 Sth °. February. -• undermentioned Captains were . . stvorri I° the Command of the follow ii:la Ships, viz OW.; BUitROWES, Earl- Howe ; W. FAIRrAX; 1 1' 13 ; . Inglis ; RaBERTSON, Lord Castlereagh,; B A JLIA' I new Ship building by Mr. WooLMER, 'for Sr. Helena and Bombay. : The. following Commanders attended- and 'tc 4/ their final leave of the Court, previously to their re'; ceiving their dispatches for, the Government off°!, St. George, viz. CaptainßALsTox, of the SI P ' ‘iflindosian; and Captain Wit..Lt Am WARD FJ . g.gg ikt of the Ship Cumberland. The above Ships are " iF poiotO,to he in the Downs on the 3tst i nst . aw hol . WhiC4 period they wabe dispatched. • • Tuesday morning Mr.P✓looae, with Mrs. MO and Suite, arrived at Harwich from Helvoeisluy s 9.s the Kin g G eo r ge P a ck et . .H e direst, rt 1 , 'a l from Switzerland to Holland. He reached I °w . at an early hour yesterday morning. r . It ap.ears, from the observations made by 1 ; 4 ;, 4 pDINgTON in the Rouse of CoMmons on Tties u % evening, upon his giving notice of moving, s Ol ,„' after the recess, for leave to bring in a Bill for c?,l solid.iting the Customs, a Tare coo t to the Tar, 1787, that the reported system of free.ports i 5 founded.' The intention of Government *is Id ascertained to relate merely to the extenqinn rs t the bonding and , w a r e housin g sy stem t o. ports which do not at present enjoy it. These I be poxtant benefits are to be communicated upon ts three following conditions :—" Ist. That the. P °{ s , should give full and ample security . for the dur L i e e j •zdly. That they should prove the t nselves provi`,3, with full ?ccommodation . of warehoUses ; idly. That they should appear to. h a ve traded F J ," considerable time back in the articles v;hich - EA' ei were to be allowed to bond." 10 / ' The new Bishop, in consequence of Dr. b e LEK'S death, will, it is confidently' said, be l l e !, Hon. and Rev, GEORGE PELHAM, Vicar of lingley and Bexhill, in the county of Sussex. It is said that there are no less than four cl , """1 1 ,1e, to • the dignity of the Marqui s ate of Afflo n ' f it namely, the Earl of HopETOWN, General Sn til i . or , JOHNSTON, Sir WILLIAM PULTENEY, and 3 dee JOHNSTON, of Shropshire ; being all immedi 3ce scendants of that ancient and. honourable h o use. o f The Hon. HERCULES ROBERT-!PAKENgAr t iIe Caius College (Son of Lord LONGFORD), I° ,l'o o Hon. HENRY COST, of Trinity College. (sec gO5, of Lord BitoWNLow), are admitted HonorarY ters of Arts at Cambridge. o f, Miss DUTTON, Daughter of Lord SNERP° is said to be on the eve of marriage with Lora DOVER. :tll The PRINCE de CONDE has been on a v isit 'c i vi l Lord IVIontA, at his be a utif u l sea t a t D o nning park, in Leicestershire. of Mons. CAMB AC ER ES, the Second Coosu,we France, never had his table so graced as at th e ie - r e Dinner he gave to the English Ambassado r, being present, amongst other people of the fi rst tintion, three English Dutchesses, o i ' Madame RECAMIER gave a splendid B.il l s t Aft jt yesterday se;nnight, at which were pre s , t n ip!, of the Foreigners of distinaion no , ,v in that '" a r particularly the English. The Citizens of London who put up for th e edr nour of Common Council Men, are not re str3il 'lW like those offering. for Seats in Parliament? es tiveio a Treating Ad ; houses are opened by the par tie Crippiegate Ward, and the merits of the resl ibe ir Candidates are fairly judged by the 11.0? 131 bfel, and the fuantiv of their porter. • ;