The Sun. — London, England, 1807-01-06 00:00:00

XUMI3-Elt 4466.] liIPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. MONDAY. JAN. 3. The further consideration of the Irish Appeal Cause, Chainley v. Lord D.unsany, was adjourned till Thursday. The Controverted EleEtion Bill was read a third tim e and passed. .. A. few . Naturalization Bills, which lay on the ta ble, were respectively forwarded.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MONDAY, JAN. 5. Near fifty Members took the Oaths and their seats: THETFORD PETITION. Mr. WHITBREAD - , in pursuance of his notice, moved, That the Order for taking into consideration the Petition complaining of an undue Return for the borough of Thetford, on Tuesday the 27th inst. Should be discharged, with a view to its being fixed for some oo.ier day. He grounded his Motion on the necessity that existed of applying. to the Court of King's Bench, in the next Derm, for the means of ascertAthiog, the legality of several of the Voters in that 13c,•.nogh. ;:tIING/IY, after having entreated the can dohr and indulgence of the House, as he was unac tustorned to address them, proceeded to i ,eXpress his •stollifilimeti.t at the Motion made. 4 The 'Hon. Gen - tJetnau, of ..vinti:!, until yesferday, he knew no thing. The iir,ift sect o bj e a of the delay ti as t o , of :s ford an opportunity. to tear the rights of the. Corpo ration-of Thetford to yiiects, r r it was diretted . tc;Plinst a Member of that Corporation who had been fire years created an Alderinan ; Who, in 1802, had a6tually voted - for titL: Petitioner, and whose right had never beet) questioned until the last Ele6tion.. There thkyl been suaictent time for an application to The Co.ert of King's Bench during the last Term, but the object was to keep him (Mr. Mingay) in hot Mr. g 7 :11T8RE.1,9 disclaimed any such obje&. The oestion was, Had such persons a right to vote -if they, had, the Hon. Gentleman was entitled to a teat in th,:t 140iiic 5. if they had not, he was not so +entitled. It was true they [night have voted at former Elettions, and if no flaw had been discovered in their title, they :night not have been diifranchis4 Intbrmation h: id seen obtained too late to make an appiicatioo to the Court during the last Term, and, therefore, justice assuredly required that the Petition Should be delayed until such an application could be obtained. Mr. BATHURST observed, that it was impossi ble for the House to decide on, that of which they had no wails of judging but by the assertions of contending parties. He believed that after such a long exercise 4- - .‘f right in a Corporate Body, a Court of Law could not disfranchise it. He could see no objeetion to the postponing the consideration of the Petition for - a fortnight. The ATTORNEY GENERAL remarked, that there had been time, during the last Terru, to make an application to the Court- of King's Bench for a quo Warranty ; not having done so, he did not think the Petitioner was entitled to the delay ; for all that could be done in the next Term was to move for a quo warrynto ; the Court could not Clistiancnise, and the result: might be protmded until the end of the Session, After a few words from Mr. WHITBREAD and Mr. ROSE, Lord Howl cx, !observing that business of importance stood for this evening - , moved that the Debatd be adjourned until to-morrow ; which was agreed to. NEW WRITS., ew Writs were ordered as follow : For the Borough of I-Lithe, in the rootn of Sir B. Warren, Bart, who has accepted the Chilterq Hun dreds. For the Borough of Stockbridge,. in.. the room of kir. Barham. • For.the Borough of inniskillin, in the room of 11r. Sneyd, who having. been: returned -.for the County of Cavan and the Borough of Inniskillm, had Made his eleaion to serve for Cavan._ For the Borough of Dundaik, in the tbony of Mr. Mudge, who has , accepted the office of Escheater of Munster. A Message from the. Lords announced their Lord- -ships' agreement to the Bill for regulating contro verted Eleetions. The Malt Dew Bill and the Provision Duty Bill passed through committees, in- which several new Clauses were introduced.—The Reports were ordered to be received to-morrow. • -• In a Cprnmittee of Ways and Means it was re solved, on the Motion of Mr: Vansittart, that to 'Wards raising the Supply the sum-of 1'0,500,0001. be raised on . loan by Exchequer Bills, for the service of Great Britain.—The report was ordered to be re ceived to-morrow. On the Motion of Lord Temple, - the second read ing of the Oak Bark Bill was postponed "un►il -this clay se'nnight, and the Bill was ordered to be printed. TILE NEGOTIATION. The Order of . the Day for taking into 'considera tion the Papers presented to the House by cOnt.;- 'nand of his Majesty, respeEting , the late Negotia tion between this Country and France, having been read, . • Lord HOIPICK rose—(We shall content our•- selves with a brief sketch of his Lordship's speech, as in the greater part of his statements he was anti cipated by Lord Grenville On Friday last in the De bate in the House of Lords, of which an ample de , : !ail i was published in THE SUN.) His Lordship egan by observing, that the Papers Which had been laid on the table Must have by this time under gone the serious and. deliberate examination of the ,Alembers of the House. It USW 'bectuno his duty to TUESDAY, propose that the House, as on similar occasions they had beemaccustomed - to do, should,' in an humble Address to his Majesty, express the feelings by which they were actuated: In rising to perform his duty, it was impoSsible for hint not to experience many painful.sensations ; in the first place he felt a -deep and vast regret at the failure of the efforts which had been sincerely directed towards the restoration of Peace; and he alai felt great anxiety and pain at the difficulties which 'the rapid succession -of disastrous events had recently thrown in the way of accomplishment of such a desirable event. ,But he had also painful-feelings, which' were more peen liatly his own ; it was impossible for him not to re- Oiled the great man who was now no more! whose hiss was to .him irreparable as it was by the country to be lamented ! At this moment he more strongly felt the severity of the lbss, when he was called upsin to detail and defend a tratisadiOnlo which that illus trious Statesman alone' was equal, and to -which he felt that . his own powers were insufficient. If any thing Could support him in the execution of this task, it was his knowledge of the principles which his re , vered friend held on this sn'oje6A, to the last moments of his existence, of the anxiety which he felt to se . cure,, if possible,. the peace and prosperity of the country. Could he trust that the general concur rence of sentiment which prevailed abroad on the subject of the Negotiation prevailed in that House-- Could he t r u s t to the impression made by the unani mous vote of the other Hoese of Parliament on this occasion, his task would he easy; but he knew well the severity of criticism which he had to apprehend from the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, - and the funda mental. inference of opinion which existed between, there on this subject. He would endeavour, how ever, by a clear and detailed - statement, to shew that' Government had neither on the one hand compro mised, _in a single instanceS the honour -of the Crown, by any improper concessions or sacrifices— norron the other, negleded any means of concluding such a Peace as would be consistent with the interests and prosperity of the Country. He was not aware that it was necessary for him to shew, that at the commencement of'the Negotiation Peace was desira ble. It always was so; Peace was the only legiti mate end of honourable War. *The qUestion rather wag, had the Negosiation been opened at a favour able time, and when it could 'be reasonably helped that equitable ierms of Peace might be . obtain ed,? After the failure of the third coalition, in consequence of the unfortunate battle _of Aus-• terlitz, it could hardly be denied, that could Peace have been obtained, on terms not in themselves dangerous, were it even 'but ' for a , temporary repose, irwould have been desirable. -If on such terms desirable, he could not understand on what principle the terms proposed in the late Nego tiation could be obje&ed to. Recurring to- Mr. Fox's first answer to M. Talleyrand's original letter, he repeated the passages which 'st.ited the principle an which Peace could be obtained. Out of that prin ciple grew these conditions: First, that we could not ' treat but in conjundion with the Emperor of Russia. Secondly, that the Negotiation should be concluded on the basis 'of actual possession ; because a Ne gotiation -to bb honourable must be equal, and to be equal each party most acknowledge- the other not to be under the necessity of purchasing Peace by Iconcession. On the first day of the Session, a Right . Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Canning) had stated Chree points, which it appeared to him to be Ise . c o-ssary that; his 'Majesty's-Minister s should make The first w ' that out. r,st v6,,.5, te the :overture for Negotia tion had- proaeeded' froth the: EneMy i the second, 'ihat . the Negotiation- had been instituted' on the basis of actual possession ; and the-third, that we bad a6t ! ed in concert with our Allies. As to the first over turehaVing been received-from the E n emy, th at f a a , I could scarcely be doubted ; for- he did not suppose I that the Right Hon, Gentleman would recur to the Ifanciful supposition, that . any pacific proposition. had . been made prior to'Mr. Fox's letter respecting • the 1 assassination. ' The answer contained pacific semi merits ; "1 buf (it might be said) irproposed a dif ! ferent basis ; 'it proposed the . stipulation of the Treaty of Amiens."—True--but what was the re ply ? That that Ni'As a basis on which there-could - be - no hope that , the Negotiation could be condua 'ed to a salutary end, because it was so _undefined and liable to uispute that 'dile first business of the. Negotiators must he to determine' what was - the basis of that Treaty itself. -In his answer, M. Tal leyrand gives up that basis . in etfest and almost 'in words, 'with an implication, that he is willing to . treat on the basis of actual possession. fle says that Fsance desires nothing of England; ,that "the Negri-- tiation ought to" be conclue - ted on the- principle ef equality's for,.' as France- was a great Power-on the- Continent, so Great Britain was a great Power, at sea. - The fair construction on these expressionsswas, that the basis of . i6tual possession would be admitted ; but let it not be-supposed that he meant - to rest the _ case upon constructive evidences . although. that evi dence might fairly- corroborate succeeding offers of a more dire& nature, 'in consequence of which the Negotiation commenced. But the letter ,to .which he had alluded insisted we should treat without ow. , Allies. ':This - Mr. '.Fox had at once rejected, deter, mined not-to separate their interests from those 'of Great Britain. • In the'answer to the letter in which this reje6tion was contained, M. Talleyrand made nse of arg - unients soabsurd, that he would not detain the House by reviewing them. All \his lengthened sophicisms vanished before the plain reply of Mr. , Fox, in three or four lines. Any person who has read the last paragraph in Mr. Fox's letter of. the 2'oth of April, must see that he thought the Ne gotiation at an end. Up to this period could the House wish any thing to be altered ? A Learned Gentleman -had improperly, as he conceived, taunted the present Administration on the plainness and simplicity with which they professed to negotiate. Let him look at Mr. Fox's letters, and be would there, find a frankness and unequivocal sincerity, .r•Lt...;/ F;T,t 14# ?,4 fa 4,r , 1 *I • , • AVVO/A /r :;* ? r t . 7: . 44 7 my •• • K,:;%0,4' 410 - • „7- ity - f,r4 • ‘' JANUARY 6, 1807. [PR ',CE Sr combined with a profound and comprehensive po licy, which would ever immortalize that illustrious • Statesman, and which sufficiently proved that the fond expedations which the Coontry entertained from his unequalled genius and wisdom were not disappointed. Those letters were the models of di, plomatic correspondence; if it . were wished to hold up a drntrast between the ,charader of this Country and the charader of France, Ir. Fox's . letters would satisfy that wish. He was glad to find that on this subject, at least, there was something like a general concurrence of sentiment. From the 20th of April to the 4th of June we heard no more of Ne gotiation. On the-Atli of June a letter was received from M. Talleyraid,. and ou the same day a Noble Lord:arrived in England from Paris, charged' with offers from the French Government. The letter proposed two principles on which the Negotiation might be undertaken ; and there was an attempt to get rid of the difficulties of ajoint Negotiation by a reference (however mistaken) to the transactions during the Marquis of Rockingham's administra tion. But, aa..he before observed, at the same time that this letter was received, came Lord Yarmouth, who distinctly stated to • his Majesty's , Ministers what had been confirmed by, that Noble Lord, in his speech in that House, a -few ,evenings ago, that he was authorized by the French Government to propose .the commencement of a Negotiation on the basis of salmi possession. Did Gentlemen dispute .the fat ? He begged them not to form their judgtnent on the precise words in the paper written by, Lord Yarmouth, which was merely a memorandum, but to take as evidence what was stated by Lord Yars mouth to his Majesty's .Ministers, and subsequently to tht House. On the ground . that the basis of • aqua' possession had been. offered ; and on that grounl alone, Lord Yarmouth was sent back to His Lordship's assertion that thisbasis had ben offered was surely sufficient ; but it was suppa - ted by indiiputable evidence. In his first in terview 'with M. Talleyrand, after his return, he stateafrom his notes his understanding of the ofier wiiicti he had been empowered to make. Did M. Talley - and deny it ? What was his answer ? Cir cumstances,are changed. I do not: deny the offer; but crcutustances are changed., . Russia is more dis posed to treat with us. The King of Naples declares the aLandonment of Sicily will be dangerous to him," In the next conference, when pressed by Lord Yar mouth, M. Talleymnd alloWed that which proved • that the basis of the uti possidatis: had been offered,- by declaring, that rimteal compensation must be made for that which might be surrendered on both sides. Lord Lauderdale also, maintained that the French Negotiator, never direiilly denied the oiler, although they tale a shuffling attempt to evade it. These are , circumstances equivalent to a ,posi tive admission. It was t - tot possible, theretore, that there could be ,any ,dispute of the fad. —Ali Mr: Fox's letter, of al - se twenty-sixth of June, to Lord Yarmouth, he speaks with indignatioti of the retraction of the. French Government from that basis on which alone his LordShiP had been sent .to Paris. And here he had to apologise for an oinis sion in the documents on the table ; for, in this let ter of the 26th of June, :be had thought Mr. Fox • referred to the expression in M. Talieyrand'S letter, `..` Nous ne vous demandons rim" But a person who. had examined the documents with. considerable at tention (though .he had himself bestowed as Much attention on them as was in his power) had discover ed that these expressions. applied to a private letter accompanyjng M. Talley rand's letter of the •Ist in which it was stated that the Emperor had nothing to desire from England, and he believed the greatness of France was compatible with the greatness of .England. He should like very much to know what , • the Right_ Hon. Gentleman opposite would :have done in the same circumstance. 'Receiving a verbal communication from the French Government, that they were ready to treat.on a basis oh which it was desirable to treat, would they have rejected the offer? A Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had said, with wonder ful solemnity, that loose yerbal communications were not subjects for diplomatic proceedings, which re quired Something Written and sa tisfadorilypetnfanen t. in'the history of all Negotiations had they not always been preceded by something of an ,unofficial nature? It must be so, because each party was unwilling ta ,commit itself, until it ascertained, in -some degree, the temper and disposition of its opponent, and there !fore the dogmas of these experienced diplomatists would only throw difficulties in the way of any Ne i. gotiation... He, had a stronger justification to urge : ifit was wrong to receive Verbal . communications at the, opening of a necrotiation for peace, surely, in a solemn discussion hetween two countries yet at peace, the ultimatum on which the question of peace or war depended ought not to be verbal, He held in his hand, however, an account of the unfortunate negotiation which preCecW the present war. The Gentlemen opposite agreelat any rate in these trans aaions. The Noble Lord was in the Cabinet at the time. The learned Gentleman (Mr. Percival) was Attorney General; and the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning), though certainly not friendly tO the Administration, did not criticise the detail' of that negotiation. And / what did he find in this ac count ? Why—that .‘ Lord Whitworth stated' a verbal ultimatum of three articles, and declared,. if' they were not acceded tO in the course of a week, - his mission would be terminated,' and he must re . - turn . to London. Ou M. Talleyratid's demanding, conrormably to the custom of all ages and countries, that the ultimatum should be delivered in writing, Lord. Whitworth replied; that he had not instruc tious so to do. In _Lord Hawkeabury's answer to Lord Whitworth's application for instruaions, he tells hini—" You were right, in the firstinstance, to state the ultiMatum of your Court verbally ; but as the French Government lay such stress up:m the circumstance, his Majesty has no . objection to your comprising it in a ~short note." -- The Gentlemen op posite-would scarcely recommend that we should say , . 'to the Frerich—" Yoti are all rogue§ and liars what communications we have from".you must be in writing : but we are all honest. men and; there fbre,--such a precaution is unnecessary." Nye. had, therefore, both.,the nature of the thing, and the ex-; • perienCe of the Gentlemen opposite, to prove to us that the'condudt of Government; in acting - upon a verbal communication, was = just ifiLlble: No other course could with propriety have been taken. To M. TalleYrand's written letter Mr. Fox sent a Writ ta ii answer.' To his verbal communication he dent a ! verbal an'swer, with instructions to the 'person who Pwas the bearer of it to ascertain the sentiments of the French Government. And here he must cora re& a Misapprehension which had gone abroad front an unintentional. mis-statement in • another place'. Lord Yarinouth was not instrudled to obtain an answer in writing, because he was not an accredited Miniater2 He was ordered, ih the first- instance; to ascertain the acknowledgthent of the basir, When powers were ,to be sent to hiln which he wad not to shew until that acknowledgment had been confirmed. ' 'At the time when 'his Majesty's D - claration Was iSS'aed, it was :his „most anxiolfs and earnest wish that it should be founded on fa;`:.ts. But' now we were to sit down again to that Declara tion ;, after the.obje6lions that - had been thade, and the investigations that had taken place, he did not- F knoW how he could state the truth more completely ► than in the way in which it was stated in that Dada ) ration, 'namely, that the offer of.the basis of aclual possession was made by the Enemy, in which offer the Negotiation originated. When Lord Yarmouth got to Paris, he net with some unexpected obstacles ; 4D'Oubril - arrived . soon after. The h o p e whit 11 the French GoyernMent entertained of indueing hint to - conclude a Treaty bettveen Russia and France i and the circumstances which related to Sicily, induced them to retract from their proposition. The aelual signature of the Treaty by M. D'Oularil rendered these obstacles of still More magnitude. - Lord Yar mouth then was placed in a.very difficult situation. He . saw no prospect of' terminating the Negchiation in Peace, but by producin„a - his powers. Hedid prd duce their : No man could doubt the sincere clksite which that Noble Lord felt of serving his Country; but at the same time he must . be allowed t o sa y t h at this a& was 'contrary to his instructions, arid to the intentions of GoveriVnent... 'The next step taken by his Majesty's Ministers: was to Send Lord Lauder dale to Paris. The first thit g . he did, in conforMity to his instrudtions, was to present a note, distinffly requiring an acknowledgment of the basis of aaual possession; and his orders were, should that not be acknos.vledged, , to quit Paris. The answer was, that if Great Britain did not feel disposed to surrender certain points, France would - reject the basis ; if not, she would . adopt it. A most wonderful Cutiousaeircurnstance was attached to this answer. o§ome word had been. erased by the'stroke of ayert, and the word adopte substituted._ What the erased 'word had been it-was impossible to discover; but as t it occupied a longer space than the word written in its room, it might probably have been reconnait. Lord Lauderdale again insisted on a &red and formal: admission of the - principle on which alone he could treat, and this ,being withheld,-he demanded his passports. Things continued thus until the end of August. A new conf e r ence . was ' requ i re d b y t h e FrenchNegotiators,which proved mc',st iinsatisfaelory, and Lord Lauderdale declared Ile -mast quit Paris.— !The 'intelligence, however, of the nonratitication of the Russian Treaty changed the tone of the French; but . still their terms were short Of those expeaed.-= Thus the Negotiation went on 'to the -end of Septem ber, 'when tcird Lauderdale demanded his passports in a more. Peremptory way, and they, Were granted. If his Majesty's Ministers could be Justly accused - of any negle-,I or omission in this transadtion, he should feel the accusation :most painfully, but still it would be deprived of much of its bitterness by the assertion, which even the opponents of Government have been competed to make, that the cause of the Country was clear--ahat the Country was: in the right,--- -A Learned Gentleman oppoSite- had characterised the Negotiation as an instance of artifice on the one , side, pradising on credulity on the other. He in sinuated that his Majesty's Ministers hAd been dupes. This was an assertion more easily made than proved. —How dupes ? Were they dupes during the first period of the sNegotiation ?' From the first offer made by M. Talleyratid to the 0 h of April; Was there any credulity sheWn•in that petiodl?':ln the - continued refusal. by Mr. Fox to listen lb any. terms of 'Negotiation l in 'which Russia was • not in cluded; was there any thing to shew that he was for one moment duped ? Nor was there any thing in -the transactions, from the'2oth of April to the 30th of Atmust, which deserved' this insinuation. But," the Learned Gentleman might say, " after the . 3oth of Aug. the offers Of the French were false and Main- . cere, and oughtnot to have been listened - to." And yet, if his Majesty's Ministers had at that time en tertained the Opinion, of the truth of which expo' rience had convinced the Learned Gentleman, -how could they have a&ed otherwise ? If an enemy offers terms of 'Peace; :and exhibits a conciliatory disposi-- - tion, the Minister who would peremptorily reject his advances, would subject himself to the re proaches of all Europe, and' what was of con Sequence, to- those of his own Country;' ha would fail in his duty. When France first manifested conciliatory temper, it was impossible to adopt:any course but to endeavour to ascertain the sincerity of that manifestation. No delay had taken place in this attempt but what arose from a few days indisposition in Lord Lauderdale, and from the evasions' and al most refusal of the French Government to grant him . passports. It had been said that the protraction of the Neaotiation had prevented the British Govern ment from giving necessary aid to Prussia. No opa portunity of doing so would have been lost, had not Prussia, by the fatuity of her own councils, rendered it Impossible to assist her. The good faith of the Country had been most completely upheld by oat