The Sun. — London, England, 1807-08-01 00:00:00

V 0, I I , : "... 1 ,--_,..,,T. 3 ,,,,,,...y .ia, , s tel . ~...,.. N ...,., 7::,.. ,. : , ~.. .4, 4fr - ~,,,". tll AV r. 1 ~. :i ~~ s+~:s~ ~ .~►~ ••• LitLii. • ;:), ol• • • • ./1 TUIi D 1 7 ; AUGUST 1, 'lBO7. NUMBER: 46 121 PRICE s SIXPE` CL IMPEL:IA PARLUMEifr. . , tote was to be called for this night, he should not enter into it further than to state, - that -in May la..t, in consequence of a determination to make a con certed effort with the aid ef': PrtiSSia s 8.0441 a, and such assistance as could be - aiTorded , from'this Coun try, it svas thought adviseable to push the exertions of Sweden . as 'tar as the. resources of that Country w. Old afterd. Previous 'to that . time, ,while there Was - no appearance of any service being rendered. its - ibil(4 ) tierter by the power of Sweden , alone,:no an ' fueritath A ti of the ~Swedish troops •was 'theUght of. Thai 'when the King of Prussi4 agreed to•furnish ten thoesand men to act h 1 Pomerania, , when a Russian detachMent also was expeded in that quarter, and ' whPn it was in contemplation-to send a force frorn this Country, an arrangement WILY. made for bring ing'into adion a SWedish force of 16,000 men; in stead of t.9..,000 before employed. The additional 4000 men were to be furnished at rather a cheaper rate than the • terms eCthe former -Subsidy. As no y hd . a . money yet been paid, in consequence of this addition, and as the nattiest that cotlld become pay able in thisyear could be tkilnore than 40 or b °MOE ' which would be fully covered by the. Vote of Credit passed according to custom, he did not think it ne cessary to look further into this point, being pre pared to give any explanation that may be demand ed.. With feeard to the ad v a nces to P russ i a , i n con - . sequence of the urgency, of affairs on the Continent, the adiances in money, no t w i t h stan di ng t h ey m i g h t bv'oboriied by the Message in March, would not Ll. - nriben made if the exigency of the case could ,ve.44iiiitted of waiting for . the conclusion of the i - - 4 v *Olen An . contemplation. When the ,Treaty "t ~s Rualgrei however, it was stipulated that the two' I S )If , hi 0,0001. and 100,0001. should be deducted : fiOm the fi rst payment o f th e Subsidy, and the amount of the arms from the future payments. Un questionably the objects of the Treaty were Ole large extent; and the Subsidy of a large amount, if the contingencies on which it was to take effed had happened, and if the events that had arisen had not ,put an end to the engagements, and left us the charge H of making good these advances. . The arms had been , plied front the o ffices t;; which that charge be- • leisigkand the expense, whe n . ma d e out , wo uld ,besa'Weired by the Vote s ef Credit ; all that would be nece3sary therefore for the House to vote, Would be the Sttirts advanced to his Prussian Majesty, on ac- ceunt 'of Abe - urgency of titfairs on' the Continent ; watch he moved accordingly. Lord H. PATTYhad no (Net - lion to the Motion; The first advance had been made by the Government to which he had the honour to belong. While these advances were intrusted to the inanageinent of such safe hands as thoseot Lord Hutchinson, the public may rely with confidence on having its interests fully guarded, for along with the military enterpriie that belonged in so high -a degree to, that tl.ktin itistied - • person, ~, .. ..,.. a . . . trh4it 4 1 - Wei:tiled inins . charratier a s caution and a prudence which afforded a perfect assurance of the safe and' judicious exercise of the discretion reposed in him. With respeet to the additional en gagements with Sweden, he 'had no objection to them, if they could .be brought to answer any purpose of pra6lical utility. But when these en gagements should come to be made the ground of a vote, it would be proper to inquire how far there existed the means of carrying them into Wed on the part of his Swedish Majesty, wh o , .h e under ' ~ .. , , stotat,.. had not completed the first force of . 12,,000 lien /) - e had stipulated: to employ i n - Pomerania. .P . Loiji CATLERgAGH assured the &sable Lord; Viai at the time of concluding the additional engage • 'Moot, the force serving at Str a l s ufid,exceeded the 12,000 men . stipulated in . the other Treaty.' He assured him also that it was intended to take mea seres to carry the proposed 4ugmcntation, into jai , . mediate died. . . s Arr. WHIMRE4D. a wished to..knOw whether Lord Hutchinson was party to. the Treaty of Sub-. sidy. He wished also, as it had been said. by some o - f the . Gentlettien On another day, that the situation of the continent had cane open ,them unexpeaed, ly ; .he wished , to know whether they_ had not-re ceived from Lord .1 - i iutcliinson information,, the etTh,..t . of which Wa,.;s r ty,,uoii.nostie3te the events that hal taken place, ;Y4l? he ':proximity, of Ausiia to hc:e f rou ti er , ppOr f tpA, e,W o , oos e. up to it, her means.. of recruitipatptbe,s d'o r tVenient, that the:aid to be, derived front i tlielp ;. mita not fail to be distina* i ly visible. `lt in thissii ation Russia was,not abl e to stand a general battle; her failure must. be obvious. Now did the'lliglit Hen. Gentle Man opposite re- . ceive such assur.mces of the uttbrciken strength of the. Russians as to justify them iti.delaying, as they had stated that as the geound of. the delay, bring ing forward the Measures they now urged as essen tially necessary to the defence otthe'country ? . Mr..Sceretary C4IVAING would not decline an swerina the Hon. Gentleman's question; on the .. ground that it had no reference to the matter in de- bate. -Lord Hutchinson bed certainly always given ; reason to expo t, that unless certain things should be done, it Was.likely that a general battle,'if given; . - would be lost. It was .possible, however, that it general battle might W avoided, as the obvious and avowed policy was to avoid it. Another contingency was the arrival of military aid from Great Britain. The, first communication the present Ministers had ,received on entering into office, conveyed the - ex- • Peaation of that aid. Whether the expectation was was authorised, he. knew not : but the aid was ex peifted, and no. preparation was made to afford •it either by descent ion certain , point, or by diversion. But instead' of having, tuadeany preparations to con tribute in either way,ithe whole of the transports for ferei'gn service had been dismissed sonic (line be fore the change:in Administration. The ,other-con tingency put by 'Lord Hutchinson ,was, that o u rd es3 Prussia should be supported by military as well as pe 7 euniary aid; it would be impossible to go . pn. T..,eril ; Flutchinscifits•epininn was certainly cliseouniiiing. liut taking the chancefol its being possible t7avoid -,a general battiei ands'supporting. with •pecuniary as well as Military , aidOaheietforts; that remaiGed to,4e. made, •therar was *still nantwto hope., for a different , iSsue.'• . His; I.Viajesty's , :.lGovernment: immediately Supplied pecuniary aid. ,to the extent,. which .it thought iight, and was: prepared to afford military . aid as tar as that should . be possible.--lie - was sorry to hat° been compelled to ',go(so : far into. this dischision in the . .absence of a . Noble Lord (Howick),' in the hope of WhOse presence, the Conl. sideratiotiof his Majesty's Message had been defer- • ' their condte to the judgment and investigation of the House, and they challenged that investigation with as fitll a confidence as those who had preceded thefts. lithe Han. Gentleman - felt anyjealOusrat this time in particular, let him call for any infrma tion he wished tor. The' Vote .now before the Committee rested on the saroe ground as the ad v.:ince made by the late Government -in March. The only difference 'Was, that, the, .advance thep Made' was specific and distinel in itself: while the ,subse- Tient advance was Made in..,pitspeCt c,t a'Subsidy, froM which, if thisTreaty.hadtaken effea, it ,would have been dednaid. Thii advance might have been stated to the House as a distill& thiog, like the other; but his Majesty's Giiverntpent thought it better to • HOUSE OF PEERS. FRIDAY S JULY 31. , Arm the routine business, the third reading of the Irish Insurreciion Bill wä moved. The Duke efBEDFORD - andLoril HOLLAND moved Amendments to th6se propturd ILI the Coalitions, which wile all negatived without a division ; and the :11:41 Was I..issed, and ordered back 'to theCoannons. The other Speakers were Lends MULGRAVE, GROSVL• *Oa, and SiDMoUTH. HOUSE OF COMMONS. FRIDAY, JULY 31• The Dublin Paving Bill was read a third time and passed. The SECRETARY at WAtcpresented an Account of • the NuMber of Deserters in the several 4recruiting. Usti - ids in the three last years. • . . The "Fishery Bill'wasread a third tim6arid• passed * ;:alsOille Wooden ManufadUrdl3ill, and the Irish Rev,. int , Collection. Bill. Ottihe Mo t ion ut Mr. Rose, it was ordered, that the lionse atould •to•morrow resolve itself into-a Committee tb consider of alloWin . ki a bounty on the exportation, ofcer taill descriptions of British and Irish Linens. ' Mr. Hozniiuse brought in a • Bill for tusfieridirigi theDrawback s on the Interchange Of Spirits of frotu.ol - between Great Britain and Ireland.--- 116,, l a time, and ordered to be lead i time to.ri-rnToW• !!? 1 , Mr, ffsetiOUse reported the Public Accountantf;- i l l alatlce 130 . 1, and••the.Colooial Import Bill; which were oitier‘ , .:(l.to be read a third time to-Morrow; °li " ) .‘ the Post inaSter-Generars Bill. • 411 r. Rose-brought - in a Bill for permitting, under c Prt. l l l l ..the.Thiportation 'of .Swedish HerringS.for the Colonies.—Rvad a first time, and Ordered rd be read a second time to-inorrsiw. Message from the Lords declared their.Lord-' • stillw Assent to the Coracoa Free Port Bill,-the Isle; Of Dogs Canal Bill, the Irish Fishery Bill, the Irish Annuity Bill, the Excise Regulation Bill, and the Military Inquiry Continuance 13ill. The Gertuan Linen Drawback Bill, and the :Ft). teign Goods Intercourse Bill, were read a second tithe and ordered to be committed tomorrow. Leave was • given to bring in a Bill for suspending the Auaieb Duties on Wes( India Goods. Mr. Ceits,vey gave notice, that onMonday next he would move that the India Estimates for the years Iscits.7 be laid before the House in a dif ferent form. • Tr , e Irish Militia' ransfer Bill' went 'through a • eoinmittze. red till thisday i but had_ been ren dered indispensable.to.hltoOrn vindication, and if it had turned out injurious. to those whclit: interests the Hon.. Gentleman .bad. particularly at heart, .11e was not to be blamed.. In answer to a question from Mr. CALCIUM, LordICAerLEREAQH stated, that it was intended to giant twelve guineas bounty to those who volunteer ed for life, and eight guineas to those who volun , teergd.lbr the term of years, ten guineas being the bouTty in ordinary recruiting. The Report is to be teceived to-morrow. Sir Jong Ilawrokr stamd, that, unless his Ma jesty's Ministers should be prepared to bring forward some measure for ,providing a better supply of Churches and Glebe Houses in,lreland, he wed , , ;it himself - bring forward such a . meaSure early, in, ti i , text Session. He could state, on the authority o i f - q :; Prim ate o f I re l a nd, th a t i n one Dio cese th er q, w Ili' ten Parishes without Church or Glebe House., • . ~, ,The CHANCELLOR of the EACHEQuER assured the Lion. Baronet, that:in the recess the attention of hi.: ,wlsiesty's Ministers should be turned particularly to' the Report on the table,, op the subject to which the„ Hon. Bdronet alluded, and to the state of Ireland in general.: - He was not now prepared to say that any fi Peclfic remedy was made for the deficiency in point of Churches and Glebe :Houses, Which was known . to exist in a very lamentable degree. . • .' • , 4'.. Stiettrptor gave notice, that-on. Friday next; i he would bring forward a • Resolution, .ple dging,thild filitlse to an.ea r ly investigation 'of , ,the State 01:Ire f f ; iand, unlesi his Majesty's Ministers' should, inithe:i. feces?, hint' theirattent ion to, thai part of the umpire, and take steps to remedy the grievances existing tlieteii. In answer to the Chancellor of the E-kcinequer/who,, Wished the , 'llight Hon. Gent. to point out whether Le particular nature and object of 'his Motion would lie Ecclesiastical, Civil, or Military, in order that the attention of 4 hose totti...erned :may be directed tO the Particular, species of information necessary to the dis- L iui sioN Mr. Sheridan . said,. the substance of the Resolution he meant to submit was, that the 1-10 use ‘vPtlicl,-esrly in the - ensuing.Sessiun, inqUire into the C ain's ,of the preient Discontents in Ireland, 'which had tendered it necessary to pass such fills iii were - now passed. , Mr. IFIIIT,BRE4D wished to know, whether the stiiittlations' of the Treaty with Prussia would be laid ,before thellouse ? . • SUPPLY. 7 -HIS MAJESTY'S MESSAGIS. . , an the Motion of the CIIANCIILLOR of the Ex. , eHEnvia, the House went into a Committee; tq ` l 'llich his Majesty's Messages, • and several. Papers ling on the table, were referred. ' : • -'' -: • : Mr. Secretary CANNING, in moving the , hionse, t. O grant the sums which were the subjed °Phis:Nig- 2 pY's Messag e s, should content himself withlttitt,i; g shortly, that the first stun of 80,0001. was ,-the "Ine which had already been made the subjed of - a e mnrflunication from his Majesty in March last, and 4. bieh had been suffered to lie over without . bging, InAtie good, i n or d er t h at an 'opportunity may be at tided of a fuller view of what should be necessary . t !) proposed. Th e Mesage he had brOught down'. tbe be other day divided itself into two parts. P9e,tbe rn,, easure. of sub s idi z i ng a n i ncrease d nutnbcr of °. ' v edisb troops ; the other, the advance- to Prussia;' and the proposed Treaty of Subsidr.with that •Porer: he arrangement with' Sweden, though,,,, c ii 4 g / ' t_hought-a.fata proper to be cornmunicate.4lV lia-T i , mint, and though payments may coinelO,l4 )4,,,,e ) upon it, yet is none lad )•et .been tuade,,..44 is'n.v . ,•t-J;. Mr. cii/VN/ArG cbusidered that altogether itn „possible. The contingencies - on which the 'Treaty. :,4a40. become binding not having taken place, the .4ipujittiotts had ceased to be of force. If any doubt .Ofilylpolicy of the Condriet pursued by his Majesty's Atiulsters,, in this. or_ any other point of their , foreign retatiOns,..existed, in the mind of the Hon. Gentle- ma d, it would be competent to him to discuss it On tiny' of the klotcs touching that`part of the public set.- Se considered it quite impossible to lay, be fore the irouse a.Treaty which could not-take place, Mr. considered it as very.impor= tant a , that eycry.means should be atfortledof jud gf ingot . this Continental policy, for which his iota , jesty's Ministers promised so largely, •andrin„which they were ready to pledge the Country so deerly.' For it was stated expressly, that the 100,Q061. ad if anted, was part or a much larger sum which would have been to be paid it the Treaty liad.taken place. Thii , led to the question of. the policy of Making so large an engagement. Knowing the Bi-, tuatioh in which the Kin; ,Of Prussia was at the. • time when the arrangement was made, it was matter qt' desire to know what were the Farticulars of the , ; arrangement. It may, perhaps, be possible to frauu 'ia;Motion so as to get'at the Treaty, or.at least the !lenl)stance of it. By considering the. policy of, What 4tmisters had done in fiiming-that Treaty, it would be possible to . judge 'of the policy of what they would have done if a larger opportunity bad been afforded to them,.'and of their general vieWs and general policy 'With respe& to the Continent. Mr. pitiVIVING was still of opinion, that the. Treaty itself could hot possibly b . e • laid. before the. House ; but it was competent to the Hon. Gentle man to frame a Motion forany information he may wish, for; the House would exercise its discretion as to the propriety of‘granting such information, and . in the discussion the I-lon. MeMber would have an 6pportunity,, of• knowing and commenting upnli, rrnuch of the Continental policy of his Majesty's er • L Vants. He could assure him that there was no y. Lpeis part,_or that of his colleagues, to liAblitit profess the whole truth without disguise. He la mented that invincible.impediments of form prevent ed the House from. having the Treaty before it. Mr. WHITBIZZAD was ready to admit that the Right Hon. Gentleman and' his Colleagues tided from the best view they .had of what was a prOper course of Continental policy; and therefore he could suppose them very ready-hi give every explanation tint could be required of them. It had been, stated on a former occasion, by a, Noble Friend of his, now absent (Lord Howick), with Whom he ivas'.nearly conneaed in personal and politicarattachrueat, that though she ativance of 80,0001. 'had been made fisr the particular purpose of providing for the defence, of Silesia, which it was politic to provide for at the time, yet that there was no intention of entering, in to any engagement of Subsidy, and that none would be entered into without that caution which past expe rience had shewn to be so necessary for, the protec tion of the public interests. This i 00,0 pol. was, in fad. part. of a million which was to' have been. paid to Prussia, if. the campaign had gone on. The House, -which. had voted ;sway much larger stuns for subsidies within the last 14 years, 'with so little behetit,;.ought to be particularly jealous of any cons siderable expence on that head now. Fits Noble Friend, nor absent, had decidedly disclaimed the policy of inviting the Continental Powers, by the temptation of Subsidies, to enter into wars in which they were not previously disposed to engage ; but. finding them ' engaged in, war for objects tbat con- cerned the common interest, _the policy of assisting them with Subsidies, granted on sure grounds and With . good discretion, would lie open. But the first conside ration in granting a Subsidy was, what was to be got . in return, and what possible means had the King of Prussia, at the time this) Treaty was entered to perform any service adequate to the Million he was to receive? Was it not physically impossible that he could bring into action a force proportienate to it it was rumoured,' tnoreover,.. he knew not en 'what autherity, that the sum that hatialready . beets . paid to Prussia in the prosped of this subsidiary, service, had been , expended for purposes to which thin Comm? woula pot contribute a sii;zle shilling, ter the purpGse of maintaining certain es .tatbshments at Berlin, with the expenses of 'which Bonaparte Charged tbe King of Prussia, and for which those about that Monarch had engaged him to pay. If the King of Prussia was in a situa s tion to submit to have money extorted .from him by the Emperor of France, that certainly .was not a time at which this, country ought to ad vance money to the King of Prussia. Hethought it would be possible to frame an address to his Mti jesty, so as to cause the Treaty to be laid before the House. Jilin:Treaty had been carried into etfeel, -it would have been, laid . beAhre the HOLM of coarse, ehdtherefore the ight Rosh. Gentleman, mid those about hint, ought to be ready to support the motion. Neit, with respell to the engagements with Sweden, it:svas said that his Swedish Majesty had not so many. troisps as his first subsidy bOunu him to furnish ; he 'W glad to heat ['rein the Right Hon. 'Gentleman what lie had . ; but the means and the utilitrof mak ing the.atigmentation were still uncertain. i"rotn the fatal policy that had been discovered and evinced in the subsidizing off Austria, Russia, and Prussia, be-,, -tere, he dreaded the pernicious tendency of subsidiz ing Sweden and Russia,now. The necessity of pro ceeding cautiously ought to have been impressed on his Majesty's Ministers, and he wished to have it appear that they had aded with that caution. Mr. Secretary CA:II , IITING, though he could not. Say he was prepared to second any motion the Hon.. Gentleman may make with a view to obtain infor•: . ,matron, was yet. Willing to give him every possible fltcility with.respeo to the obi& he had in view. The advance of 100,0001-would not have been made, except in the prospeCt of the contingency on which the Treaty turned, nor till the exigency became so pressing, that it came to the alternative, whether the King of Prussia would be able to Make a further stru g gle or not. , With respect to the security of the . due application of the meney to services not foreign to British interests, the advance Was - made when . the removal of the Ministers devoted t o the ; FrencifGovertunent, and the appointment of 13iron Hardenbeig to the head of the Prussian Cabinet, afforded sufficient guarantee. As long as there was reaseil to • suppose that any sutni'saved from the wreck of the Prussian treasures at Berlin remained unexhausted; as !Ong as there was room to suspect that any sums at the disposal of the Pt ussian Govern ment mere applied to any purposes inconsistent with British objects, so long all advances had been with held. It -was not till all these objeCtions had bean removed, that British liberality had been extended. He had further to assure the Rouse, - that till the very end of the campaign, the King of Prussia had had - a considerable etii4iVe fOrce, which :Lord lliftchinson stated to be most vigorously and ofec tiy.oy,ployed. Whatever may have been the re-, :snit of this unfortunate campaign, it was' at least a tonsolatioh to this Country, that its aid had' been twice the means of Wing the gallant garrison of Colherg, which had held out to the end of the con ilia, and which had now the honour of standing with undirninishud honour among the subjugated cit'Lcs around. Mr. !YHITBRE4D did not conceive that the reputation of the Noble Lord, for whom he was par ticularly i e nterestech was at all brought into hazard by the discussion that had arisen.: but even' if it were, the superior importance to, the Country, of bringing forth tho explanations that were ,so, essen tially necessary, would have been a prior canside, ration with him. It was,allowed that Lord Hutchin son held forth but a discouraging ;prosper of the issue of the list campaign. But the Right Hon.- . Gentleman hedged In some, contingencies; which . might have retarded or retrieved the ,otherwise.in evitablediSaster. Qnp.thiag atone however was ataf ' ficient to prove ihat there was hope togbe enter . tained from:Russia. Driven back as she was to her • frontier, if she Kit Still under a necessity of av o idi ng ti general engageMent her case was absolutely hope.. less. If there were from the bdginning persons who. entertainedhopes of success, where he confessed he saw ria such prospect, exaggerated as every little ad vantage on the side of Russia wa4, and extenuated as were the successes of France, at least when Fiance was at such a distance from her means of recruiting, and linssia,aarli were, at the, very gates of her maga zines of Men ;? , If in such a situation .no proved of success Was.' keen,. except in avoiding a general eu gagement, all hope - was gone. Then it, was said, that Lord Hutchinson- had intimated that there was an impression that British aid'woold be afforded on the L Continent. He asked the Right Hon. Gentleman .w het her, when the contest broke out between France and Prussia, the latter was not at war with Great:' Britain for Hanover, which she refused to give, up,., 'except it should be wrested fron, her by forco-ci arms. This ,was it, November. :Then what.posSi bility was there, even if it should be expedient to send a British force, to dispatch that force behne the change in Achninistration. He for one thought it inexpedient to send a liritish force. For, if Russia, drawn to her frontiers, could not make a stand there, `no possible aid that British troops could give would avail. The Right Hon. Gentleman then said, that when the present Ministers cadre iuto office,. they 'found no means of carrying. their views of Conti. nental, co•operation into effea. They came into Office in April, when they, immediately felt the ne cessity of sending military aid to Prussia, and of n ) .. creating the. Syedish subajdy. Tt was not till thO, middle{of ;however, that , they had colle6led AMU then they, were colleded lei a different service. ~New they had , embarked upwards of MOO' rbon in a fortnight. If thatycould be jone in July"; vottyluay it not have been done in April,? When the urgency of the occasion was felt from the outset, why was not the aid prompt in Proportion ?. He saw a great military character (Gen. Tarleton). on the, opposite benChes, - and 110 , should be glad to hear what he called his military ideas on this point. It"the preparations, the want of which were now coinplatned of, bad been kept up, 40;000l. a month would have continued to be paid tor transports, and the illoati . scsen woultknot have sailed sooner ; where as it isva,ncli, found Nat when Loops ,5% ere ready, transpotta c 0,4414 col4ted at a moment's Warning,.