The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1806-02-26 00:00:00

re • 7,090,400 H. to the Publl circuit d have been paid, 41 41;6 wool.! !aye eerv•cr tnextinguish a considerable part of the National lkbt of Great Britain. It was a tatisfeEtion to him to know, that the production of the papers he hail L. move for, would be a work of much time and trouble, and he should take a subse- Ilisent opportunity of moving for a Committee, to investigate fully, the. state of the affairs hi India; liff Was aware, that'll; this proceeding,* under took a service of some danger,_ arid oißht expose himself to obloquy and misrepltesetfation ; but he s felt it a point of duty, to lonk into the state of the Company's affairs, when he fouud them encumbered with a debt of 30 millions in India, and seven hmillions to the public. He concluded with moving, -ebat there be laid before the House, an account of all sums paid into Ills Majesty's Excheqeer, by the mast India Company, in compliance with the third oilodion of the Aft of 1797. .;• Lard CASTLEREAGII said, he should abstain :m going generally iato all the topics alluded to a the Hon. Gentleman ; but he did not wish to - „Lave it supposed, that he acquiesced in what was t etaied of the misappropriation of the Company's 1 -seventies. 'rho Hun. Gentleman had either for . , _ or cursorily ar.d hastily glanced over the Inf . 1797, when he assumed, that bullion was . . out of this country fur political purposes ; whim, e p n roc :o s, las the transfer of debt from India to . etxpitiy. ThscHouse, or the Parliament, could - by Illy passibility, color-out the revenues of the India Company; though they might regu flap. muchand fraught the fiefts m it ette we h s y a th c e om A :e , r w ci e a r l the greatest advantages to the trade. The pro . jam their appropriation, whtim they were forth 4fienting. \Vhen the surplus expelled by the framer .Itllf the Aft did not accrue, a discretionary power .3osigtad in the Government, to suspend the payment rii4z oo,oool. arnuallv ; but, it could not he c in . that the puisiie was entitled to receive that f. = „, unless the fund. for it existed The in now proposed to be instituted, seemed princi _pane to be confined to the 6nasiees of the two last :years; when, owing to the Mahratta War, and .other ceases. the pressure upon them was the -Stletest and most urgent. Dy the aftual account .gthe fi nances of that country, in April; 1803, the .‘ mese would perceive, that the situation of India Rios so proaperoos and alßuent, as afforded -Awl :dim animas of applying the surplus, in the my nor . "pied, were it ma for the intervention ‘. 1 the 4 / 1 111reed eetraordinary pressure, which he brine altodad to—and of the present resources of that • casualty, it wools' be impossible for the House to limb an accurate jodgment, until they should be in 'Possession of the accounts of the years 1803, 4, and 6, which had not yet been received. Mr. FULLER said, that as the name of the late Marquis Cornwallis had been adverted tn, he should grad himself of the opportunity that was now pre awed. to state his opinion, that some mark of the pal& esteem should lie given to his gallant brother, Admiral Cornwallis, for the striet blockade which be kept of the enemy's ports. The SPEAKER here interrupted the Hon. Mem ber. conceiving that what he said had no apple- Ultima to the robin& in defeats. .1 4 trel FOLKSTONE thought, that in taking a _ _ . • ig .. • . view of this subjs., the House migh t be coot f nted to eassfine itself te the proceedings of the Company, ' -for the last two years. The nation made a com , pied ' by which it gave up extensive privileges to r that body, and if they broke that compact, it should be at an end. The ild of Parliament regulated, that its revenues should be applied, first, for its military establishments ; next, to civil purposes ; wad, lastly, to the purchase of investm e n ts for the •. trade. These should have preceded the payment of • their • ' ; and, if the investments were not for, be thought that the dividends should not haploid. . Lord CASTLEREAGH explained, that he did sot mean to confine the investigation to the last ta o years, but to extend it as far as might be • %bought proper. Mr. FRANCIS said, that he scarcely e'er felt a astessishment than at the assertions made by le Lord (Castlereagh). lie would freely it to any of the Diredors to say, upon their homer, whether they were flee to semi orders abroad. indepeedently of the Board of Controul ? And V any man should state the affirmative, he was prepared to give reasons why he must doubt the truth of it. If they attempted to communicate upon commercial subjeSs, they were immediately checked • And "'unwed by the Beard of Controul. As to the • Tewiteeial Government, and the politics of that pier of the empire, he was wiling to acquit the Di teem Wall blame. So far were they from having nay st_ , ist that way, that they did not possess may j were in regard to their own shipp , i4. Ntisorregolatios of their private trade. t h e oble Loot slid oat deny that there was an er sl= bium this countyy of eight millions aurally, wad even alleged, that it was isdeMwtegewee to the assnoteroo of the country. He. hetwaTeep as the cowerary, was ready to contend, • mad to doutessoo‘ that the espestation of suck a balsa is Mao; lostead of investments, must be t adman to ilk Compsny's prosperity. If. then. the nowoost "area not applied to their investments, the atilk of. ishilloomat Was a fallacy, nor was any part of 4 ' with, mein the payment of the di vi t det ywpied :o do hapriK.ts. which was the last thing tbs.- ter. In stating all this. he con • isisoldf us het tbo truest friend of these blind "rho Imbed to nothing farther than the laimmilhoo mamas of their dividends. He could so. perhaps. justly complain of the East India Pro =. wbe were mot to be considered as tree agents; was so elegise for the Diredors, who suf fered Wags to so oo in this meaner, when they emit 1.444 come to the l'srhament, and make a plea watentent of their grievances. When he saw a Ask of seven millions rapidly increased to twenty, )se could scarcely avoid recurring to the Mahratta war, the mischiefs of which he had been so often reps.:eating to a careless House of Commons, an indill.irent Public. and a Co:npany insensible to its inspeeding ruin. The amble Lind (Castlereagh) had told them, that in the year i ettl, the state of the Fast India Company was prosperous and afflu ent—AA assarti.se ie which he could net at.quiesce, when he saw such sums of mosey charged against iii than, sad that the debt, which, by the operation of We law. it it hati brim obeyed, would have been redece.l to two millions, as t.! is time was swelled to . • • • • . ir the amount of thirty millions sterling. It soon be in vain to disguise font the public, that this enormous accumolkion of debt must, under the present systetn, oltimetelyiell upon this country. " I have been," contintied Mr.,Fran;cie,r " the most sincere and faithful servant of this unwilling and un grateful Company. Many years have now elapsed, since 1 recommended to them to relinquish altoge ther a sovereignty which they knew to be only no minal. It can be of no use to retain the name of it ; for, in fafl, the Company has no more in its hands of the government of India, than I have ; and they cannot even purchase their inrettment at Ben gal, but with loss, and engaging in a trade which the natives always were averse to." Lord CASTLEREAGH explained, that in de scribing the state of India, in 1803, he by no means over-rated its situation, when he said it was pros perous and affluent. There was at that time a clear surplus to the Company of 11,000,0001. but the public were only to come in for a participation in a combined surplus of the profits. In the en suing year, there was unpaid, an extraordinary duty on tea, on the sales of which the Company was, pre viously to that time, a gainer, to the amount of '200,0001. and they were forced to pay a tax of about half a million, which made so much difference in their profits, and consequently retarded the partici pation of the public. As to the exportation of bul lion for four millions of investments, every one, ac qoainted with the subjen, must know. that the trade with China could net be carried on without it. Mr. FRANCIS explained, that his observation respeaing the expor toting) of bullion, did not refer to the China trade, but what was remitted to India only. Mr. C. GRANT that rose, and began by ob serving, that whatever might be the opinions of Honourable Gentlemen in that House relative to the affairs of the India Company, he thought no good consequence whatever could possibly arise from going at this particular moment into any ar couni-nts relative to the charter of the Company, or any of the points especially involved in it. An Honourable Gentleman had delivered his opinion at considerable length oo the situatieo of the C9fn. ' , any's affairs, and that opinion mast always be en titled to considerable weight, from his great know lerlg and long residence in the country ; but whatever either that Honourable Member. or any ro hers, might think of this, he himself was confident, that if the sovereigntyrif the India Company was to be taken into the hands of any administration of this countrytit would be the most dengeroul to the consti tution of any thing that could happen to it. This was not a time to adopt any matters of innovation, or alteration, and he feared the many attempts which had been made to charge the Company with blame, in not having made good their payments to Govern ment, at the particular times at which they had beets sopulated to be made, would tend to no other purpose, than to alarm the public mind, and to render that mote difficult which the pressUre of cir cultism: ces, and the untowardness of unforeseen events, had already made too much so. It was not his intention to go into all the arguments which had been used nn the present occasion ; but there were some particular points of which he thouto it necessary to take some notice, and to which he would request the attention of the House. With respell to the exportation of bullion, of which the Honourable Gentlemen had said so much, he could not by any means agree with them in opinion, that it was impossible for the Company to gain any thing by it. Every one who knew the nature of the commerce of India. most be sensible that bullion is, in that country, at different times, extremely va rious in its operations. It frequently happens, in the intercourse with the people there, that you can purchase infinitely cheaper by the payment of specie, than you possibly can by barter. Yon have a greater occasion for their produce than they have for your's, and consequent ly, if you were to go always on the principle of bar tering one commodity for another. you would do it at a much greater disadvantage, than if you were to pay in bullion. which is always acceptable. A great deal of the bullion exported, had also been sent for the purpose of lessening the Company's ' debt in India, and a plan had been formed for the gradual liquidation of the whole ; but as the Noble Lord near him, had justly observed, wars had un fortunately broken out. and so rapidly succeeded each other, since that plan was formed, that they have absorbed, and anticipated all the specie sent out for that purpose. This disadvantage, however, ought not to be attributed to the Company's com mercial concerns, but to the political events which were so intimately blended with them, that they could not be separated. Much stress had been laid by the Hon. Gentlemen on the surplus mentioned in the AEI of 1795. but he could assure the House, there never had been any such surplus since that time, and therefore the Company could na pay it. Statements were easily made on any subjeft, hut sure he was, the Company in as much as depended on their own manto,terzient of their commercial con cerns, had nut in any way been to blame ; and the Job' which had theta heavily accrued, was entirely owing to those political incidents which were so in separably interwoven with their commercial con cerns. As to the amount of the debt, he was sorry to say, it was very great, and he believed it might be upwards of 10.000,0001. and if the accumula tion were suffered to go on, the consequences would doubtless be very injurious, if not eventually ruin ous. But whether the the specie intended to lessen it, were to be sent nut by the Government or by the Company, he believed it would amount to exaOly the same thing. He had boatd some intimation given of moving for a :cleft Committee to inquire into the state of the debt of the India Company. He. for one, should oirjes to the appointment of any such Committee, unless the cbjeet of it were clearly defined ; for he wets sure the Company's accounts were so clear, it would be easy for His Majesty's Ministers to investigate them, without adopting any such measure. He begged to ask the Hon. Gentle man who brought forward the present Motion. whe ther he had no other reason in doing so, but to en quire into the debt of the Company ? if nut, he was sure there was no occasion for it. Mr. FRANCIS said. it was very material that the House should indulge him so far as to allow him to say one word in explanation. He begged the House to recollect that he had never said a sa lable of his intention or v. ish to alter the internal government or the original constitution of the Cons • I• any. He only said, that he had told the Comp a ny long ago, that he would advise them to part with their Sovereignty, as they derived so benefit horn it, and were only overawed and ruled by the Boar of Cnntroul. He thought it necessary to repeat this distinCtly, in order to avoid any misrepresenta tions which might go abroad on the suhj 1, And which night be turned and to isted for the pernicious purposes, very foreign to any thing he had really said, or intended to say, Mr. Secretary FOX begged Wye to trouble the House with a few words. He agreed with the Hon. DireCtor (Mr. C. Grant), that it would not be right to go further into this business, than was ab solutely necessary ; but still it might be right to in stitute an inquiry iota it He never understood his Hen. Friend to say, that he wished fur any alteration in the constitution of the Company, but only that he found fault with a particular part of it. This we a point extremely reconcileable to reason, and he himself had, in the abort time he had now sat in that seat, had occasion to express himself in the same way, on a matter similar in its circumstances. He disapproved the measure of the Union with Ire land, as well as the the manner in which it had been carried. But though both these were, in his opinion, bad, that was no legislative reason why the measure itself shouli4 be altered or set aside. He also disapproved the government of the India Com pany, but thought it much better to put up with any particular, partial, and peaflical inconve niences, that might result from it, than run the risk of injuring it still more by any alteration. The lion. Director had alluded to an intention of mov ing for the appointment of a Select Committee : for his own part, this was the first word he had heard of such a thing. If it should, however, appear hereafter, that the affairs and accounts of the Com pany were of such An lisped, that they could not be easily comprehended, then a Committee might per haps be desirable : if, on the other hand, they were of a nature to be understood immediately, there would then be no occasion for a committee. Some inquiry into the matter of the surplos seemed to him to be indispensibly necessary. There might, perhaps, be many reasons, and some of these of great weight, why such surplus had not been duly appropriated ; but it was a monstrous proposition to say, that after a serious investigation of the Com pany's affairs had taken place, so long ago as the year 1793, and that the President of the Board of Commit then told the House, there was a surplus of half a million, and, in consequence, an aft was, at his particular instance, brought into this .louse, and passed, for the due appropriation of that sur plus; it WAS, surely, lie said, a monstrous proposi tion, for the President of the same Board, in the year 1803, to come to that House, and say, there was no surplus. It was incumbent on those who had had the management of the Company's affairs, to shew the incidents and misfortunes which had arisen to prevent such a surplus. For his own part, he believed it had arisen, and was owing, to false reasons having been resorted to, and rumours reised, of our being engaged in wars, when, in truth and fee, we were not so. He thought it very material, and highly important, to investigate, in order to find out how all their golden hopes had been so grievously disappointed ; and this appeared to him the more necessary, that they may avoid still hold ing nut false hopes to the public, and thus give rise to continued and increasing disappointments. Truth, said he, may certainly be alarming ; but he thought it much more dangerous to hold out false hopes ; and he would ask, which had produced the greatest danger, a true statement of difficulties and dangers, when they had *dually occurred, or a mysterious and hollow concealment of their true situation ? For his part, he thought, that when you come to examine, too much vigilance in el:eating the worst part of a case, would be tar less mischievous, than too great a willingness to dress it up with false bland ishments, and to believe your situation to be highly flattering and prosperous, when it is very much the contrary. He begged pardon for having trespassed on the House an long, but he thought it necessary to make these observations; he had but one more to offer on the subjeCt, which was, that in his opi nion, .4 there was no one subjefl in His Majesty's dominions, whose merit, respecting the afriirs of In dia, could be put in competition with that of his lion. Friend (Mr. Francis) " Lord MORPE spoke very shor•ly, hut in so low a tone, that we could not distinctly hear what he said, further than that to the principal M nines there was no objeftion made; but he seemed to feel an objection to one or two of them. That it would be recolleOed the 500,0001. payable to the Troi sury, had only been made in one instance ; that lie would be sorry to come forward to impede, in the least, any Lair inquiry ; but that be thought some of the Resolutions irrelevant to the purpose. for which they seemed to be I ramed. Sir T. MEI'CALFE assured the House he would only trouble them with a very few words. It was extremely well known to every Member in that Hone-, that for many years pact the expences of the Company had been very much on the increase ; and nothing could be more self-evident than this, that while expences were increasing, there could he nu surplus. He only wished on one point to sheen that during the time the 500,00'4 had not been paid to the Treasury, Government had receiv .d advantages which were abundantly Adequate. .He begged the House to recolleCt the period when she Right Honourable Gentleman, at the head of His :Majesty's Government, brought forward the tax of 12i per cent. on teas, by way of commutation for other taxes, no one thought the Company would hive afterwards mare to pay than that tam of 12; per cent. Instead of which, the tax en teas had since been raised to 95 per cent. If the duty during that period had contisined at HS per cent. the Company would have paid 'ampulla more than 5,000,0001. but from the progressive rise of the duty to its present amount, they had paid up wards of 17,00).0001. so that the Treasury have received 12,000,0001. more than they weall h..ve done, if the first stipulation had been adhered to ; and thereby the public has derived more advan tages than the Company, who have been also de prived of that sum towards the di:cherge of the payments alluded to. Mr. Aldermen PIIINSEP said, he felt as moth as any one the denger of alarming the puldic mini in rt Era to the state "f the Company's Affi;rs ; hut ha had thought it his duty, more than once, to state to the II nor. what he thettta en :Let sohate:: • when it occasionally came before them for thei co,sideration. He WAS now of rpini n, noir Nlajesty's Ministers, who had lat , ly taken no s them so great a responsibility, ought, In dwy rn themselves, to cause such invesrig.tiOns to ;4, place, as to satisfy themselves whether the amat:, amount of the present debt, has accreted from al c . 4 . rag commerce, or from .1 gees" increase of miltary force and military expenditure. They ought to endeavour to find out the means of reconcili: g th e paradox of a surplus and an increasing deli ; A flourishing state of affairs, and An exhausted revert'', and decreasing commerce, can exit: a: on.. an j the same moment, inch, concerns of .Ir , same Coo p lln hape.l sort 1: enoriii y, either irra'rlic or p:iv.tte, would take place, and that speedily ; for, At t, the present system of revenues and resources, he s as nothing in it but deiution and deception, nighiy dangerous in their contiLuance. hir. JOHNSTONE said, he had hot very La words to offer on the subjed. He had paid very pat ticular attention to the affairs of the India Co r. pany, anti had endearioured to make himselt AS %S.l' acquainted with them .as it spas in his powe ; 411 he thought the pre ern question premztare ! : would only mention, very briefly, one or two He concurred in cphr • with what had bevy we...! by the'Diredors, 1/..r n r blame whatever attache:l to them from the fa :!are of their payments ; they had suffered from a large military estabEihmeat, the ex orrice% of which had been so grey:, it was im possitrle they could make good the.r payments. Another was, that no Selet Committee of that Hon-e could be necessary for the iavestigarion the Company's accounts ; for they were. made set in a manner so perfeetly clear and intelligible, that no one at all acquainted with figures could r)ossidy mistake or misapprehend them ; and, on all ;,-r i. sums, when the affairs of the Company had been le fore t' e House, the precise difference between vas Nohle Lord (Castlereagh) and him had been, twat the Noble Lssrd went into estimates, and he con tended for results. Sir 11. INGLIS sued, the reason why Govern ment had not participated iii the promi.ed par. merits was, that in 1793. When the.c tuner was rea. newel, hopes were entertained, that the war would very won he at an end ; but, unfortunately, those hopes had been disappointed, and we had ever since been engaged in war, either with the French or the Native Fusee's, and sometimes with both, by which the debt had been enormously increased. ar.d that expellees of the war had been placed to the /Oat of the Company's accounts, with no otheratliowance than the difference between a war arid peace establishment ; and yet, from the account made out since 1793, it would appear, that the C .m -pany's dividends bad been paid out of the prcfi-s of their trade. As to a Select Committee, he was cer tain nothing could be done by it that would not be better effected by His Majesty's Ministers foe ming the Board of Contr.-oil, Mr. Alderman PRINSF.P explained. Mr. PAUL recimitela:ed several of his former statements ; and said, in ad , lition, that he could not but view this immense debt of the Company, as striking at the existemx of the funded interest of the country. He never blamed the Direlors for what had Seen done by them, but, as to the Noble Lord's statement of the &lit being owing to the wares he denied it; and insisted, on the contrary, the) had not been expensive enough ; for, when the war broke out, they were totally unprepared, and were obliged to raise tl e means of defence, at a very enormous extraordinary exoence, in consequence. He insisted also, that the increase of the debt was owing to money having been borrowed in India, at 10, 12, and IS per sees:. for the purposes of corn merce, aoil he would engage to prove, before a Committee, a less on the bengal commerce, of act less than 5,500,0001. borrowed on laying on invest ments. He had teen asked, by an H us. Direftor, whether he had any other reason for making this Mo. lion, than to investigate their debt f His answer was, he had a most important reason, and tha: was, for fixing the responsibility where it ought to lodge, and that he u.ought was in the Government in I ilia, wl.ich he would pledge himself to prove, before a "deft Committee. Lord C.%STLERIiAGi l explained. Mr H. ADOINGTON said, he did net The to objeB to the Motion, but he thoeght that di the proper period arrived, wnen the documer.ts should Ile laid before the House, on which a entre& opi• nion may be formed, the Hon. Gentleman would do well to abstain from all expressions of warmth and asperity towards the coniluift of a Noble Per sonage, who was not then present to detend himself. or to acconot for hes conduct. He hoped. therefore. tile Hon. Gentleman would desist from such a prc ceeding. Mr. PAUL said, that in opening the matter of Isis motion, he had never once mentioned the name of the Noble Personage alluded to by the Her. Gentleman, nor even, in the most distant manner. Noted at him ; but, in answer to the question of an lion. Direanr, he had said, '..that be had something hunter in view than a revision of the Company" debts ; that he wished to place the responsibility whete it ought properiy to lodge ; and that be thought that was the Government is lis saying this, he saw no wAttnth or asperity of ex pression toward* the Noble Personage alluded v. The question was then put on LOA several mo tions, and :tweed to. JOINT ACCOUNT. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moves for toe appointment of a Cornrnittee to iTi vc.stiitate the joint account between Great Pt it2.:l and Ire:and, woich was agreed to, axl the folloa ing Menv , ers, among others, whose names escaped us, nominated to'compvse the same : Loa H KttA s.r John Stewart, 1.0 , 4 C...tiereszh, Mr. Mira... me, FIWIer. theul4..l, Mr. Co.:ry, Mr. N. Vaimit3rt. Mr. M Stewart, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice, that he would. on Thutsdsq. tor leave to bring i 3 a Bin to regulate the office of Treasurer of His Majesty's Ordnance. Lord TEMPLE gave notice that lie would, or. Tursday, move her a Committtee to consider (4 the 116 t for regulating the Greenland Wb.sL Fishery. Tito Irish Land Parti•ion Bill was read a seem. 'inn., and ordered to be committed on Tow s ray. Tne other Orders of the Day were then dispose of, and tee iI eae a.+; •.) Ir" - I ..~..- The (rant of 13. 6d. This I) .......... TH ia1i..... , . Into Sunda , a coat the SW 01 Ca,lt. l&sJ ft. westw. •~ F'' 11 11,10 IPA 1 6r. e" Ci: Ler,