The Sun. — London, England, 1802-05-21 00:00:00

77. , : EARL of ROMNEY spoke shortly, but de_ cidedly, in favour of the Bill, and panygerised the motives of its original supporters in the House of ( fr soininoris, whose sole object was to pteserve its purity, and to exclude improper charaEters. .T,i - eed with the Noble and Learned Lord who spoke favour of the Bill, that a settled and established regulation of the kind was much wanted. ,7 he Marquis of BUCKIYCHAM, in deliver_ ing his sentiments of the Bill before the House, ad -I,:ei ted, as We cofieeived his Lordship, to the Bill fOr regulatipg the trials of Contested Ele6tions, and took occasion to speak in terms of high commendation of " the conduft of a Noble and Learned Lord then in his place, (the Earl of RosLIN) as being highly in- Strumentai in perpetuating the benefits of that ACt to the Country. With respect to the subjeft more . immediately before the House, the Noble Marquis expressed his cc4ncidenee in opinion with these No life Lhrds, who thought the offences constituted by the Bill, of a very . : vngue and indefinite natu:e, and t,lted, that under the language of the Eill, circum_ stances, very in their nature, and under which no improper design could possibly exist, may be construed so as to come within the letter of'the Act. He could not conceive how an opposition to the Bill, or not stiffcring it to go to - a Committee, could be•a ?nark of disrespect, either on the parr of an individual Peer, or of the House.collcdively, to the other House'of Parliament—fur his own part, as' he most decidedly disapproved of the Bill in tsto, he must naturally be hostile to its proceeding any further. - Lard ELLENBO ROUG spoke in' favour of the Bill ; • many of his Lordship's Observations went` to strengthen and enforce the leading points urged by the Noble and Learned Lord who first spoke in sup port of the measure ; he thought the prdmoters of the Bili in the other House of Parliament, had acted in such a manner as reflected the highest credit on them, and called for the applause and gratitude of the Country.—He argued for the necessity of Legis lative provisions on the subjed, and seemed to ob serve, that the drift of the arguments urged that night vas, that it would be proper either to repeal the original Bill altogether, or to enact a new legislative provision on• the subjed. He thought the Bill be fore the House was one of great importance, even in a constitutional point of view, and instead of tieing hastily disposed of, merited the serious atten -tion of that House ; should the Bill go to a Com mittee,, he had an amendment to propose, which would nut one of the leading provisions of the Ad in.a clearer and stronger point of view. Lard PEL NAM shortly expressed his reasons far being hostile to the Bill. The Noble Lord's observations were of a general nature. The prin_ . ciple which didated theM he stated to be, his en tertaining an exereme jealousy of all Bills which went to incapacitate individuals from either voting t‘.4, or sitting as, ° Representatives in Parliament. The question, that the Bill be committed, was then put, on which a division took place, when there appeared, Non Contents, Contents, Majority, r A Motion ‘tqfs then made , for the rejeaion o. t.h. Bill, on which their Lordships again divided, . Contents, 7 Non Contents, 6 Mr.jority, By this decision the Bill is lost for the present Se,sion. Their Lordships then adjourned till to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSDAY, MAY 20. THE, Bill for introducing certain alterations into the AEI for regt&ting the- Provisions for the Poor, was, read a first tine, and ordered to he printed, and read a second time on ionday. ' The Report - on the gill for the better Protthion of Field Crops was received, and the Bill was ordered to be read toira time to-morrow. The Report on the Bill for regulating the London Fish rmitets was received, and t he ]fill ordered to be engrossed and mad a third time to-morrow. On the Order of the Day being read for the third reading of the English Militia Bill, Mr. COOKE said, that in his opinion the in crease of numbers proposed by the present Bill, tended to destroy the fundamental principles on which the Militia had at first been constituted. He feared also that it would be difficult .to procure proper Officers for the Militia, without having re course to those who had been employed in the Re gular Service, which would also tend. to destroy the original constitution of our Militia. The SECRETARY at WAR replied, that, as the Bill stood at pre:,ent, the numbers of the Militia to be raised by it did not exceed 40,000 men, the • same number to - which it amounted before it was disembodied. The whole extent to which the sys tem was intended to be carried did not exceed 60,c oo men, a number not exceeding that embodied in the reign of Charles If., and proportionally much less, when we consider the difference of population then and at the present period. With regard to this Bill affecting former regulations, he saw no reason for k . s'Ach an apprehension. ' The Militia had been al . .• ways exceedingly . well officered, without having recourse to the I,ine, even to the very conclusion of the:War, and there was no reason to doubt that this would always be the case, while any remaies CuF their former martial ardour glowed in the breasts of our countrymen. The Bill was then read a third time 42 - id passed. . The consideration of the Volunteer Corps Bit; ' was put off to Monday. • The Report of the Committee on the Lottery B:11 was received, and the Bill was ordered to be en_ a rt s , cd, and read a third time to-rnot row. The ATTORNEY GENERAL moved for leave to bribi in a Bill to repeal certain parts of the Alien Bill, and substitute other Regulations in their. - place. . He.said, that as tilt % gain> of Europe stood, it could not be thought expedient, at present, wholly t6 r , repeal the Alien Bill ; while, at the bailie - time, it was evident that certain 1110;.liticaiions ought to be introduced into it ; and these it vas his intention tp propose. T A Y LOR said, that he was so much friend] of Peace, that he hoped nothing would be introduced into the present Bill, which could any wise tend to occasion disputes with Aliens. • The CHANCELLOR of the F.XCHEQUER said, that, as far as he understood the proposed contents - Of the Bill, there was nothing in it calcu lated to give'any ground to the Hon. Gentleman's apprehensions. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. The ATTORNEY GENERAL then moved for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal certain Regulations of the Police Bill, and substitute others in their place. •He said, that the Bill now in force was rather experimental than an 'ultimate measure, and therefore had not been carried to the length intend ed. The design of the present Bill was' to extend the provisions of the former one, by an increase of the number and pay of the Police Officers. Mr. WILBERFORCE entirely coincided with the sentiments of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and expressed his hope that the proposed increase both of pay and number, would not be small. Leave was given accordingly. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL then moved for a Committee of the. whole House to-morrow, to con sider if the appropriated sum of the Consolidated Fund xas sufficient to maintain the establishment of Bumboats.—Ordered. Dr. .JENNER'S Petition was ordered to be taken into consideration by a Committee of the whole House on Tuesday next. The House then resolved itself into a Commit tee on the Bill for regulating the Committees on Controverted Elections. Mr. BANKES rose to move that the Clause con cernino. the appointment of N om i nees p n b ot h s id es , which had hitherto stood part of the Bill, be now left out. He said, that he understood the Original in trodudion of the clause'concerning Nominees into the Bill, hal been a matter, not of choice, but of necessity ; that it was a temporising measure to take off the opposition raised against the Bill, lest its salutary provisions should 'have been entirely rejected. Now that the utility of - the Bill. was universally allowed, he thought the Clause ought to be left out. Instead of allowing each Party to cause a Nominee, he conceived it would be much better to appoint a President, or, if t h at was not approved, Asscss'ors, to explain to the Committee the difficult points that might occur. He contended that by the present regulations, a Nominee was placed in - a situation extremely disagreable. He was introduced into the Committee as a friend of the PartY, and then obliged to aft as a Judge. It was unfair to place any Gentleman in such asitua tion, that he must give up either his duty or his friend. Nay, he was compelled not only to give up his friend, but also, when he found his cause weak, to do him more injury than he would wish to do ; for the other Members would of course conclude, when any Candidate was given up by his friend, his cause must be desperate indeed. He observed, that it was now more ne. cessary, than . at its Est institution, t o provide for the purity of the Committee's decisions ; as at first they only decided on the present case, but now they decided also on the rights of Election, which rendered their decisions permanent. He observed, that though no great evils had hitherto, resulted in pradice from; the regulations as/they now stood, yet every one must own, that the partialities of friendship must in some cases have had their in_ fluence ; and it was proper to provide against an ahnse when foreseen ; for if it, were once allowed to be introduced, it would not be so easily again gotrid of. He said, that the Parliament of Ire land had adopted Mr. Grenville's Bill at first in all its parts ; but had afterwards foond it expedient to abrogate Nominees, not only in these, but in ail seled Committees together. He therefore begged Gentlemen to consider in, what an awkward situa tion the Irish Members were .placed, in being sub jedectio regulations, which in their own country they had rejeeted as unwise and inexpedient. He concluded with moving, that the clause concerning the appointment of NoMinees be left out of the Bill. Mr, M. A;TAYLOR deprecated the lopping off limbs from this Bill, in the manner proposed by the Hon. Gentleman. He conceived that the Hon. Gentleman had completely misunderstood the nature of Nominees : they were not, he said, to defend their friends in opposition to their Oath ; but only to see that stria justice was done to the Parties by the Committee. He himself had been in two Co mmittees where a Nominee had voted against him by whom he was chosen ; and yet this was considered as no breach of friendship. He said that he always looked upon Nominees to be chosen by the parties as men so well acquainted with the nature of their claims, as to be able to explain them pro perly to the Committee. He had never heard an instance where party spirit had prevailad over the obligation of a Nominee's oath. He hoped, there fore, that the clause would be allowed to remain as it stood at present ; and that the Hon. Gentleman, if he thought it necessary, would introduce a se parate-Bill to meet his own ideas. Mr. HARRISON said, he had never felt any difficulty in ailing between his duty and his friend. ship as a Nominee ; nor did he believe any just ground could be advanced for, leaving out the pre sent clause. IVIr. WILBERFORCE supported the arguments of Mr. BANKES with regard to the impropriety of the situation in which Gentlemen were placed as Nominees.. He said, that in such a judicature it was extremely improper to introduce the, least temptation to do wrong ; that the delicacy of friendship was sufficient to lead - a man astray, even without himself being conscious of it,- and that the very singularity of those instances which had been introduced to shew that the ties of friendship did not 'always overcome a sense of duty, was the strongest proof that it very frequently did so. Mr. Bi;.AGGE said, he could not think that cx ecrience by any means warranted the proposed al teration in the Bill. The appointment of Nominees leaf been found produdive of benefits. These benefits were not confined to the individuals that Tla.ried them, nor derived' from the partiality of fricodship ; but from these Nominees being usually eersoos conversant with legal subjeas, and able to give the' Cetrimittee proper information respelling the rights of the parties. He allowed that the task of a Nominee might be unpleasant to the individual; but if it was found salutary to the Public, was it for that reason to be abandoned ? With regard to its being impossible to remedy the evil if once in troduced, he observed that this idea was refuted by the original introduCtion of the present Bill. It was also to be recolleae4that there was a Nominee ap pointed by each party ; and that therefore, allowing both to be influenced by partiality, their defence of their respeClive friends could only provoke a. more ample discussion, of their claims. He therefore hoped no objection would at present be persisted in against the clause. ,• Sir JAMES St. CLAIR said it was impossible in the present state in which they had been intro duced to-decide upon the validity of the objetlions urged against the clause, he should, therefore, until a more ample opportunity of discussion was afford ed, consider himself bound to vote against any al teration of the -clause as it stood at present.. Mr. SIMEON supported the Amendment. Mr. J. ELIOT wished the subject to be brought forward in a separate form. Mr. BRAGGE explained. Mr. LEIGH suggested, that the Nominees might remain, but that their right of voting should be taken away. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought, the suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. LEIGH) liable to great objections: It would be ac knowledging, on the part of the House, the Nomi nees to be Advocates, and would leave them so much at liberty, that they might plead as Advocates for their respective friends, as if they were pleading in the charader of professional Advocates. With re_ sped to getting rid of the Nominees, he thought there was an error in the arguments on that side, in coupling the Friend with ,tha Nominee, as conside rations wholly distinct from friendship—merit fre quently actuated the choice of Nominees who were chosen, because they possessed tried talents, legal knowledge and Parliamentary experience in order that they might bring fully and fairly before the Com mittee, the various points on which that Committee was to decide. He could not consent to innovation unless some great practical inconvenience was stated as the ground of it. If, however, it was the opinion of Gentlemen, that Mr. Grenville's Ad required Amendment, it would be much better to bring in a Bill which should embrace the whole of the Amend_ ments which might be thought necessary, than to mix them with this measure, which was merely to ensure dispatch in the execution of that Ad, and which must be impeded in its course, if any of these Amendments were attempted to be grafted on it. After sore observations in explanation, from Mr. WILBERFORCE, Mr. BRAGGE, and Mr. StmEoN, The Committee divided on the proposed Amend ment, when there being only Thirty-four 'M tubers present, an Adjournment took place at eight o'clock till to-morrow. MAILS. ARRIVED. French Hamburgh - - - - 1 , DUE. PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT TWELVE O'CLOCK. Consols. -74 i a a Omniuni tali THE SUN. SOLEM QUIS DICERS PRLSUM AUDEAT LONDON, MAY 21, 1802. Br our Dover Letter received this morning, we learn of the arrival yesterday off that Port, of the Perseverance, from the Southern Fishery, which ship on the 16th spoke the Amelia Packet, from the West Indies.—This Packet, on her passage, spoke with a French Squadron from St. - Domingo bound to France for reinforcements. From them she learnt, that the French force in St. Domingo was, what we have all along supposed it to be, inade. quate to die& a complete conquest of the Island.— The Amelia Packet has arrived at Falmouth. WE this morning received Moniteurs of the 17th and 18th instant. No other Papers have come to hand. • A plan of a Law has been presented to the Le. gislative Body, relative to the West Indies, which was to be discussed on the Igth. By this plan it is proposed that Slavery shall be maintained in the French Islands as it existed anterior to the year 1789. This law is to be extended likewise to the French Colonies beyond the Cape of Good Hope. General AuDALLAts Mariov is appointed a Member of the Tribunate. The Tiers Consol. on the 17th were at 56. 60. THIS morning arrived a Ifamburgh Mail. An. article from Stutgard, of May 6th, states that the people of that Country had received the agreeable intelligence of a Treaty of Peace having been• con cluded between the Dutch) , of Wirtemberg and the French Republic. The QUEEN of PRUSSIA is to attend the KING on his tour, only as far as Konigsberg, when His MAJESTY will proceed to Memel, - to hold an inter. view with the EMP EROR of-RUSSIA. • An article frOrn St. Petersburgh.states, that Lord Sc. HELENS intends to.returrl to En g land as soon as his su'otessor Lord- CARTS“MT shall arrive. WE have very attentively listened' to . all the ar guments which have been urged against the Defini_• tiye Treaty of Peace in Parliament,• and have perused all thOst•that have been repeated out.ot ' and we think them as much deserving of si lentct tempt, as the strongest reprobation, were it 11°t the pernicious effcas which they are insidiotisirc culated to produce on the best and dearest in lere' of the Connery, and for the groundless alarm Wht they may have . temporarily excited in W eak a timid minds. This consideration obliges the Fri er/ of Peace and National Prosperity to dissipate 31°15 however groundless, and to refute arguments, ever weak and unfounded. In inquiring, Ole n ' 1 the objections urged against the Definitive Tr eat we shall find that they are direact). to its terms its security. With regard to the terms, these 113 : been so fully di scusse d i n t h e l ate D e b ates , so sa t ' ' faaorily vindicated in Lord HAwx.Esß trEtr: s :' t mirable Spee c h la st wee k , t h at no shadow 0144 u can remain o n t h e pu bli c m i n d , o f the i r being—b°: honourable and advantageous. O ne Article) deed, is still attempted to b e d e b ate d, t he pro P r-; e of not fenewing former Treaties of Peace. ,Bott aft : it has been shewn that the preservation and cl sion of our C ommerce i n no W i se depended !iron 59 j , a renewal ; after it has been proved, that til e vantages to be derived from this renewal) wPtl , have been mo re th an counter b a l ance d b y it, (115Ldi vantages ; nay, after it h as b een d emo nstrate it was imp o ssibl e to renew f ormer Treat i es , as the provisions could not, by any means, be a ccotar li dated to the altered state o f E urope; a f ter all Ib e ' se considerations, the Commercial World must be c° vinced, that their interests could not have bee ts tl3 3t promoted, a n d t h e P u bli c i n general must see 11 , no beneficial purpose could have been attainea, the renewal of former Treaties. s c) But after the terms of the Treaty have be, e re completely justified, the clamours of Oppositi °°2 fc now transferred to its security, The PeoC ie ne d told, that instead o f P eace , t h ey h ave only 0131 Is a phantom, which, at the sound (-Of BoNArl“' I C°c y, voice, as other Sp e et res at t h e crowitig of will vanish at once from their sight. In ° l.jeT e o f strengthen this idea, f or t h e b enevo l ent parP°s-0 alarming our Merchants and Manufafturer s ) Enemies of the Treaty have published Rerna rics . 0 . 1 the Arguments of Ministry, and Analyses ie late ,Debates in the House of Common. s %- c i which they endeavour to infer, from the Wi, the Ministers - themselves, that we have ni )-,0 curity whatever f or t h e duration- o f peas e " a These inferences tbty h ave en d eavoure d, tQ from detached sentences, 'without paying any a~ von to the connexion in which they were l ' l . l ,oj' duced. By this. truly Zuileari method of A all i a t i li r we find Lord Hwitusatlrtsr made to avow t- - c- 01 1 , creme insecurity of the Peace. But in w'P at , rile se ne4ion, on what occasion did he say circumstances are thrown into the back grou-n die only the bare assertion is broaght4O.r,eard' ° o ol , public view. But any one wh o ' teach the,' or e Lord's Speech, will be convinced that his W °r3S f' orO far from giving any gro un d f or a l arm . Aft ipg that the Peace was both honourable anti c h i tageous, he 'observed th a t i t was lik ew iscas as the present ;tare of Europe would Pe riP %if Whence then, according to him, did any de 6c : ( )1 4 in its Security arise ? Not from-any defe4 in. pi t -or' terms of the Treaty ; not fro the corrlP' e "" r op. BONAPARTE'S view's ; not from the recent no dizemehe of France but it arose fro m the late thes 6 r - vulsed state of Europe—from the danger:o 3 % i t he convulsions may again break forth, and f ro der risk that these convulsions may again hoist % .tier e • the regular chain of huma n a ffair s . Wh ile y was even a possibil;ty .of such an event, wou la an tha t wise Minister have been justified in saY in g tbe te the Peace was a b so l ute l y secure ? And wh ile . p ot is only a possibility of it, while suck an-event et a , in the usual course of thi2gs,.are the alarm s ?...• tained on this account consistent-with real to t o The train of the Nobie Lord's Speech vve end n• shew that those convulsions which.rnigh t be get the security of the Peace, wer e not eve n to ws. apprehended. He observed, " - That Fo llee t S , rapidly returning to the old order of tbing 9 '. 3ti o. established Government, and regular Solg)t dir) c 04, vi As long therefore as the current ran this wai l i n t., no more to appr e he n d a t the c onclusion of rl764'oeilse. than any former Treaty. Whatever the pc ment was in France, pr o vided it was 3 tier One, our apprehensions with regard to % vet to be the same. BONApARTE and Boni's', only different names ; the ambition c;:!::eicaoheo the true object of our jealousy." tenor of Lord HAWKESBURY'S Spee.Ch ;a n . t o Iola" will say that such s entiments were ca • . t he excite alarms with regard to the secg'-'!' Peace ? sl s° e ..s . Lord CASTLEREAOFI, whose words tlxl M h e r ' ts . De been pressed into the service Of: sec uri iyi•t ee, went still farther.shewed that -°bieaof the War, had been attain ed a t the the late - Fie stated it to have been the opinion °f - Chancellor of the Exchequer, t h a t at t t ? adoo , 0 l vti cj ment of the War, there were three 02 e.cu':