The Sun. — London, England, 1802-05-01 00:00:00

1 I was only en advantage of eight guineas a the induce ment to insure, therefore, was as the number of days employed in drawing. It was proposed to have three Lotteries within the year, the drawing of each ofwhich was not to exceed eight days. It was thought adviseable not to have any Lottery for Ire land, but to confine it wholly to this Country,in order that every part of it might be effectually controlled. The Lotteries for Ireland had been so arranged, that a smaller sum was paid for the tickets than in the Lotteries here ; there was also a greater number of tickets, and a longer period employed in the drawing, all which was produCtive, in a greater degree, of the evils arising from low inhurance : it was therefore thought advisable to consolidate the Lotteries, and to have the sole drawing in this Cotntry. lie had been fully aware, that those disposed. to contraa, might be disposed to give a' less advantage to the Public in consequence of these 1-._;u!ations, which they might consider would affect t r traffic in Lottery Tickets, or at least that traffic which, though they were not individually concerned in, yet gre.v out of the transaction. He was sure, however, that the House would agree to any plan that would tend to decrease the evils to which he had before alluded, although it might in some measure diminish the advanta g es to be de rived to the Public. He had, nevertheless, the satisfaQion to state to the House, that the advantage. to the Public was still very considerable : he had the satisfaftion to state, that the advantage to the Public would amount to 555,0001. of which two thirds were appropriated to Great Britain, aae. the remaining one-third to Ireland ; the advantage to Great Britain would therefore be 370,0001. and to Ireland 185,0001. He trusted the Committee would participate with him in the satisfadion arising, from the advantage thus derived to the Pub concluded by moving, That it is the opi nion of this Committee that the sum of 1,455,0001. be raised by three Lotteries-970,000h being for Great Britain, and 485,0001. for Ireland. Mr. CORRY said, that the pradice of low in surance, alluded to by his Right Hon. Friend, had been productive of greater evils in Ireland than, in this Country, and he was sure, that every person who wished well to the Country, and who had at heart the interests of the lower class of the people, would he highly gratified by the plan now proposed. 'the evils produced by the Lotteries in Ireland, had been, in a great degree, extended to this Country, as had those arising from the Lotteries here, spread over Ireland to a great extent ; these would be now prevented. The evils attending low insurances had risen to a much greater height in Ireland than in England, and the greatest praise was due to the present Lord LieutenAt of Ireland and to the Right Hon. Gentleman who was last year his Secretary, for the exertions they had made to check such practices. The proportion of the sum arising from the Lottery, had been taken upon a most fair and liberal consideration of the subject, for the ad vantage arising to Ireland would be 50,0001. more than the advantage before derived. Mr, M. A. TAYLOR adverted to the evils pro duced amongst the lower class of the people by the practice of insuring, and thought that the Govern ment was entitled to public approbation for bringing forward the regulations now proposed to be carried into execution. Mr. BAB INGTO-N disapproved altogether of the mode of raising any part of the Supplies by way of .I.,, , ttery. The Motion was then agreed to, as was also an other Motion, fixing the number of Tickets. at ioc.),000, and specifying the manner in which the Instalments were to be paid. The _House having resumed, the Report was or der—l r, be received, and the Committee to sit again .on Monday. The EXport and Import Duty Bill was read a third time and passed, LINEN MANUFACTURE OF IRELAND. The House, on the Motion of Mr. FOSTER, re solved itself into a Committee on the Bill for the better regulation of the Irish Linen iVlanufaeture. Mr CORRY said, that as the Right Hon. Gen tleman who introduced this Bill had not gone into any statement of the causes which induced him to • bring it forward, it was necessary for him (Mr. CORRY), in the situation which he had the honour to hold, to discharge certain duties which, in con sequence of that situation, fell upon him, however unpleasant it might It. to his private feelings. The situation of the Linen Trade, as far as it related to the importation of Flax-seed, was this, that it was to be examined at the Custom-house of the Port into which it was brought, by the Colletior of that port, after which, if; upon examination, the seed was found to be good, it was branded by the colle&or as good seed, and fit for use. Formerly there was a bounty upon the Importation of Flax-seed, and it was thought necessary that this inspeaion should be made, in order that the public money should not be given away for bad seed, and also to prevent the injury that must arise to the linen manufadure from the use of such seed. Some time afterwards it was thought proper to take off the bounty given upon the importation of Flax-seed, but it was thought expedient that the Coitettor should still examine the seed, and that he should mark such as,, upon ex amination, was found to be good. For this duty the Co,,ecior was allowed to receive 6d. a hogshead for every hogshead so examined and branded, but it was remarkable, that the fees were payable only in case where the seed was branded: but when the seed, up on examination, was found unfit for use, then the Colleaor was entitled to no fee whatever. The ColleCtors certainly were not judges of what was or what was not good seed, and, therefore, ,they , employed persons under them, and the prailice was to give to the persons so em ployed, a parr of the fees : the consequence of this Was, that the Colleaors did so transact the business, (without any bad intention on their part) that those persons had every temptation to brand whatever seed was shewn to them. - By these means great quanlities of very bad seed were introduced into the country, inld great injury done to the Linen Ma twfaaure, It was true that the Collthors did not examine those seeds themselves, and theref ore it cer tainly was impossible to impute to them the com mission of any ;hiag th;t was improper ; hilt still it speeie; . . of negligence and omission, The ifneo;t4tlQ4 of - .V1ax.500 4 was very great ; grlci principally into the ports of Dublin, Ntvtiy, ,130. fast, and Derry; and it was an objea of tie greatest importar.ce to the Country that the mos strietqc aminatioil should take place upon the isportaciun of the seed, but from the mode i n . w hih the 44- siness had been conduded, it became necessary that some other means should be adoped of exa mining the reed. The chauge which was pro_ posed by the present Bill to make was this, that a person employed under the Linen Bard should examine the seed imported instead of the Colledor at the port, and that the latter should continue to receive a proportion of the fee paid, and that the remainder should be given to the Inspedor employ ed by the Linen Board; This was the objet of the clause at present under consideration, but these were two points of which he thought it his duty to apprize the Committee. He begged leave to state, he had the honour of being a Member of the Linen Board for many years, and belonged to a part of the country very much engaged in that manufadute. He was sure that he felt as lively an interest in the prosperity of that manufaCture as any Gentleman could do, and he did feel that sonie change was necessary in the mode of examining the Flax-seed upon its Importation. So far he spoke as a Member of the Linen Board, but he must now speak in his official capacity. In the first place, that duty, which was before dis charged by an Officer of the Crown, it was pro posed should be no longer performed by him. He admitted, that the person who was entrusted with that duty ought to be considered as a servant of the Linen Board, which the Colledor certainly was not; but at the same time that he observed this on the . part of the iVlanufaCturer, it behoved him to observe that the Crown would he deprived of its patronage, by giving this duty to servants of the Linen Board, instead of the Colledor. In stating this he wished it to be distinctly understood as by no . means wil ring to sacrifice the interest of the iVlanufadurer to the Patronage of the Crown, but he ho'pal it would be found possible, at the same; time, to take care of the interest ' of the Manufac turer, t rid not to negled the other objeft which he had alluded to. With regard to that part of the Bill which related to the receiving of fees, he wished to state, that though he was in the habits, not only of acquaintance, but of friendship, with many.of the Gentlemen who were the objects of this Bill, yet he could not help protesting against the principle, that men who were no longer to be employed in the discharge of a trust, and who were supposed by the Bill to have acted iineroperly, should in the same Bill be made the objedi of (co use a word which was perfettlY familiar, because it was connected with most of the meaiures in the Country of which he was speaking) conpensa tion. The second point to which he triant to allude was, the amount of the fees to be pad : he felt it his duty to ()Ned to the levying any tax, however small, upon the Trade of Ireland, for the purpose of such compensation. If the fees paid for the discharge of this duty were too large, they ought to be diminished ; if they were not, the person who performed all the duty ought to have the whole of the emolument ; but he cer tainly should oppose the idea of one person doing the duty, and another person receiving a proportion of the emoluments ; and, therefore, he was bound to oppose any unnecessary imposition on the 'Dade of Leland for such a purpose, however small. Ile had said, that he was in the habits of private friendship with most of the Gentlemen who were the objects of this Bill, but he would never sacrifice his public duty to his private feelings, and, therefore, he thought it necessary to make this statement to the Committee, who, he had no doubt, would require further in_ formation before they proceeded thus to take this patronage out of the hands of the Crown. But he hoped -that a mode might be devised of accomplish_ ing both these object in a satisfadory manner. He wished to avoid saying any thing that could hurt the feelings of any person, and therefore it was a delicate subject for him to speak upon ; but he could not be satisfied with this Clause, and therefore should pro pose to fill it up in a way that would not render it liable to the objections he had urged. Sir GEORGE HILL said, he had been much astonished at the statement which had been made by the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER of Ireland, and he was induced to suppose, by that statement, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not .read the Law upon this subject, or that having read it, he did not understand it. He had taken it for granted that these officers, the Colledors, had been guilty of negligence in the'discharge of their duty ; but of this negligence there was not the slightest proof before the House, and it was the duty of the CHAN CELLOR of the EXCHEQUER for Ireland, in his of fice, to proted these Collectors, who were Officers of the Crown, who had faithfully and honestly dis charged their duty. This was the first time he had ever heard a statement of this kind made against persons in the employment of Government, without any inquiry, any document, or any proof whatever to establish the assertion. The Right Hon.Gentle_ man, the CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER for Ireland, had said, it was the duty of the Collectors themselves to insped the seed before they branded it. This was not the case : they were only bound by law to with three persons to examine the qua lity of the seed, and make a certificate upon their report; and until such examination has taken place, the Coliedor is liable to a penalty of rol. if he brands a hogshead of seed. This Bill, he said, pro posed to substitute, in the place of the Colledors, an Officer only of the Linen Board. This, the Finn. Member said, he disapproved, because he thought the judgment of three persons better than that of one ; and even this Bill, as a perfedion of regulation, had recourse at last to the very mode employed under the old Law, namely, that of swear ing persons to examine it. He thought it right to apprize the Committee, that he was nearly related to one Gentleman employed in this office of 2ollec tor, and he would take upon himself to say, it had been faithfully and honestly discharged. Hetrusted then, that the HouSe of Commons would not with out proof, or examination, take away the employ_ ment, and censure the condud of any persin cm ployed under the Crown ; for these reas , ns, he moved, That the Chairman do report pro;ress.", Mr. _FOSTER said, he should not take t, much of the time Qt . the Committee, because . the C4AN. ,030140 t of the EXT/r2QUtk for Ireland had, by his .statement, acknowledged some measure of this kind vas necessary. By the Law of Ireland, ColleEtors ,sfere ordered to examine the Flax Seed imported, antf•they were to receive for that examination 6d. for .every hogshead. The Linen Board had no 'Offieer to inspeet the seed on its importation, but .they had Inspeelors.in every Port who were brought up to the business, and were thoroughly acquainted with it. The immediate circumstances which led him to introduce this Bill, he would state to the 'Committee. A very short time ago, 2000 hogsheads of Flax Seed had been imported into Ireland, and, upon examination there, it was ordered to be re-ex ported, as it Was bad, and unfit for use : this Seed was imported into Ireland, and every hogshead of it was examined, and branded as good ; the consequence of which was extremely injurious to the Linen Ma nufafture, and it became necessary for the Linen Board to do something upon the business, and they sent their Inspedor into different parts of the Coun try, but all their efforts were unavailing, and the greatest complaints were made by persons in the Linen. Trade, of the injury they sustained by the use of bad Seed. He did not mean to throw any imputation on the charader of the Colleaors, be cause he believed they aced without any bad inser tion, but the fart was, they did not understand the business, and they were obliged to employ interest ed persons, who certainly branded the hogsheads without sufficient examination. He did not think it right by this to take away the money from .the Colledors, because they had not been guilty of any intentional miscondud. The only object was to pro— , tea the Linen Manufacture from the injurious con_ sequences which resulted from importing bad seed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he never rose with more unpleasant feel ings to speak upon any subjea, because, he con_ fessed, he was not perfedly master of the question. His Right Hon. Friend had called the attention of the Committee to this subjea, in a way that en titled him to their gratitude ; it certainly was a matter deserving of great consideration, to take . away from Officers of the Crown, and to transfer to Officers of a Private Board, a duty which the former had long discharged. He did not pretend to say, , that such a transfer was improper, he only meant to observe, that some investigation. ought to take place before it was made, and, there_ fore he wished that some preliminary inquiry should be instituted, by which, a regular, legitimate and parliamentary ground would be laid for their pro.. ceeding. It was proper that the House of Commons should be apprised of thz reasons why the Officers of the Crown should no longer continue to disTharge a duty which had been entrusted to them so long, and why it should be transferred to the super_ intendance of a private, but, at the satne time, one of the most useful and respedable Boards the United Kingdom. There was no intentional delinquency imputed to the Colleaors, it was only contended that they had discharged their duty im perfedly, or rather, that they had delegated it to insufficient persons. Upon this subjea, he con fessed, he wished for more ample information : if the allegation was well-founded, 'there certainly was no ground for compensation, if, on the other hand, there was no ground for the imputation on their condud, it was not consistent with justice to deprive them of their employments. =These culties operated strongly on his mind, and, there fore, he was anxious that a further inquiry should be instituted into the business. Sir GEORGE HILL observed that the Col ledors were not bound to examine, but only to sum mon a Jury, who were sworn to examine. Mr. FOSTER said, it was not the prat - Hee to swear the persons who were summoned to examine. He thought it necessary to state, in justification of himself, after what had been said, that he held in his hand a Resolution of the Linen Board of Ireland, founded upon the Report of their Inspedor Gene ral, stating that a great ,quantity of bad Flax-seed had been introduced into the Country, which had been branded as good, which Resolution expressly stated that a Bill should be offered to Parliament to remedy the evil. Upon this Resolution the Bill was fotinded, and he had no objeaion to the Gen tlemen on the Treasury Bench moulding it as they pleased, so as the' Bill was suffered to pass. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, there was no necessity for the Right Hon. Gentleman to say any thing in justification of his own conduct, the Right Hon. Gentleman was pos_ sessed of information, which to him was • a solid ground of proceeding. The House, however, was not in possession of that information, and he thought the better way would be to institute a previous in quiry, in order that they might be possessed of all the information which could be obtained upon the subjea. Perhaps the document from the Linen Board might be all that would be necessary, but it was necessary that the House should be in posses sion of it, as it might be on an early day, for .he was desirous that the Bill should pass. With re spea to the Colledors, he thought, that by taking away a part of their Duty in the way which was proposed by this Bill, a legislative imputation of neglea was thrown upon them. Mr. FOSTER observed, that the Document al luded to might be immediately laid before the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that was not the regular way to lay papers before the House; there must he an order made for the purpose, and he thought it would be better for the Committee to report progress, and ask leave to sit again. Mr. BERESFORD said, he admitted that much bad FIAR-s'eed had found its way into the country, but the badness'of it might arise from various causes after it had been branded. The. Resolution of the Linen Board alluded to by the Right. Hon. Gentle man (Mr. FOSTER) had been adopted immediately upon the Report of the Inspedor General without inquiry ; he trusted, however, that the House would not follow the ,example of the Linen Board, but allow sufficient time for inquiry. The Collec tors he knew were highly honourable men. Mr. CORRY said, he did not charge any Collec tor with misconclua, but he contended that the Bill itself, by depriving them of their duty, was a cen sure upon them, Sir GEORGE HILL said, he understood the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. CogaY) to have pass a severe censure upon the ColleCors. . Mr. BERESFORD said, he thought there was no occasion for hurrying forl,vard the present Billarsy as all the Fiax-seed, wanted for the p r esent ye had been already imported, and th e sowing of Flax-, seed was -finished for the present se ason, therefore, he thought the Bill might be postpon ed till next year without inconvenience. Mr. FOSTER said, that more than half the gua rs ' City of Flax-seed used in sowing, could not be sow till after the ist of May. It was necessary to passn the Bill now, that it might attach upon Flax -seed imported a f t er the ist of June. He had .not charge d any Colledor with neglect of duty, but only stated generally, that the Poor bad suffered by the intro' duaion of bad seed. tt~ havi ng After' a few words from Mr. VANDELEURI The Question was put, and carried, that to: u s Chairma n sho u ld leave the Chair, and the ,f-fe 51' .. agai n on M on d a y. The CHANCELLOR cfthe EXCHEQUER said' resumed, the Committee was ordered to that upo n fu r th er con sideration, he thought the best mode that could be adopted, relative to the sohi e .q they had just been discussing, would be to aPPPI,uc a Committee to consider the Ads rela tive t° subject, who might sit to-morrow and shoo d Monday. He then moved that a (:orrmaitte e be appointed to consider so much of the several Aets of the Parliament of Irelandrrespeaing the Line°, °: portati.oh Hempen Manufacture, as related to the im of Flax-seed into Ireland, and report the same, wit their observations thereon.—Ordered. day Mr. CORRY moved for a -Committee on Mon r to consider of the 4.t st Geo. 111. relative to Sog a Drawbacks in Ireland.—Ordered. Mr. CORRY moved, that a Committee be v o i pointed to prepare an Estimate ,of the ExPe' ce , c ... Paying and Cloathing the Militia, and of the tim e pence of , Allowances to Subaltern Officers - io t r i al of Peace; and that they have power to report time to time to the House.—Ordered. report oir! h of Mr. CORRY moved, that the Ad of the '37 t A o f the King, c. 37, relating to the Sinking F un . d ' in g Ireland, be now read, for the purr:mei: 4oi fie for a deficiency' in tte Ad, from ciretuns tan , "9 The cessarily arising from the Ad of. lloi ° ", a . unt let Commissioners who were empowered to a " r ., - ,ber r the authority of that statute, were five in n u— , of among whom were the Speaker of the Htl us- E ;4 ., Commons of Ireland, the Chancellor of th e or , chequer, and the Secretary of the Lord Lieuten a o f The office of Speaker of the House.of Conlnli o r Ireland was totally annihilated, and the Chancelre, of the Exchequer was necessarily absent from land, and thus it became necessary to alter slot of the provisions of this Ad, and , therefore,,,a,hog the Ad was entered as read, he moved, " 4 0 01 leave be given to bring in a Bill to an 5 0 °l car , of the said Ad as, relates to Commission ers for 004 rying the same into execution," which was g ra accordingly. for Mr. CORRY moved the Order of the m - if t he the House to r esolve itself into Committee°SaVi_ whole House, to take into Consideration the e gation of Iceland, a W e t objc oft Resolution, said, was to pass a and °n ° a l a r stPin% of it to ground a Bill, to regulate ' men t ° Trade of Ireland ; and with r .crard to theyea-;are put them under the same regulations 35 he under in this country. The Order being Lead, he moved, " That the SPEAKER do "W l e ave Chair ;" which was ordered. The Hous e in a mittee, be Mr. CORRY moved, " That the C HAjg in directed to move the House for leave a Bill for the further Encouragement to h i _r l 74 o ,, rivers, and for other purposes i" o f Irish to. , as r" The House being resumed, the RePor- w Avers leave sc r ' s ceived immediately, and, on motion , to bring in a Bill accordingly• 0 d er Mr. N. VANSITTART moved, that the r c oy the Day for the House to resolve itself, into a.. Ail mittee of the whole House, to consider of t 0 . 3 4 for the Reduetion of the 'slational Debt Dade . - which beinread accordingly, he nee which was og' Mr. VA N SITTART said, he was under oi• aulgen ce cessity of aplying once more for the .1 1 - - es . 10 the . House upon this subjed. Circumstanciationg arisen to prevent the .completion of the Calfloold b ° upon this subject, but he believed they -",( Tha t ready by Thursday : he therefore moved) ts o.o. the Committee he deferred to ThursdaY Ordered. A Nieg ° " Deferred the Committee of Ways an- - . Monday next. Mon° At half past seven the House adjourned to day. MAILS. ARRIVED. French - I Lisbon - D{yl• PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT TWELVE O'CLOCK• Consols. - - [ Omniurn - THE SUN. SOLEM QOIS DIcERE PAL.SOM Al/I)EAT -LONDON, MAY r, _lBO2. . I t' die Ws this morning received Paris four ; g Abe ult. The Moniteur of the 27th COnta:'n- 0 expelled Amnesty to the Emigrants, 4' ic r ii hrose have given at length unde r the Paris geol. , p i . a , only are excepted from it, who have been the '— wit° t hose ers of Armies against the Republic ; thole have had rank in the Ar mies of the E nernY; e l i cit! who, since the foundation of the Republic, hay . , places in the Households of the French Prince' to ll / those who are known to have been, or : a were Movers or Agents of A the Civil or Fora