The Sun. — London, England, 1802-05-08 00:00:00

I .• ( 1 1 larnons e wete now tt Peace, and with ivitorn we might remain at Peace—the seine Bonaparte, in ' 10 ' when he w a s scarce ly sea t e d i n his G overn _ o , ent ' and when he had not a man i n Italy, made • er t _ tires of Pe ace , an d w h en a n oppro b r i ous and ,rSea n',tdCus a nswer was sent.; for which the Minister • no sent it oupht to be impeached: The Hotise I sUrprized rntda vote approving of that aoswer, thereby made thernselves the Council of the • /.IKing, and carried on the Executive Government. .e would not attempt to• anticipate what would he , 441 •bY other s with so much more abilitY, buthe trusted Ailed - louse would be governed by fadse , -!-- h ie id seemed in part of his speech as if te wil l wakin g an apo lO g y f or t h e late Minister, fo r o e talked' o f hi s impertedions as if they had got k the.syi n d,.vateLside of his' abilities. He did not n9w how. the fad stood with resped to the resig ,,▪ a L „ 'on of the late MinistPr, bin he trusted the Pres ent Cha nce lf or o f t h e E xc h e q u er, would stand i ? in ' , llls place and declare, that he Made Peace the ,lionour of his Country. He believed . /h e State was deteliet when - the late Chancellor of th e ~"exehequer quitted the helm, and that the King - c i a " then no Minister ; but why were not fads preL uce ds .for upon those alone he could or ()tight n . found his judgment ? Why was there such ! t t 3 P r tillotiS Amehdrnent, to leave out all the words after the Word " that," and why should not lie ve his that ? He,Would therefore move, " That • enntnittee should be appointed' to "itiquire into i fez °r+ of His Majesty's late Minister during ` war, .and the cause of his resigning at a period • critical and disastrous." it fall o h . e Motion could not be received, and ther e f ore -s to the ground'. C'ARTIVRIGHT adverted to the statement L ly hich h a d been -advanced, that the late Ministers no 'merit in repelling dangers that threatened e Country, because no such dangers ever_ existed. tit could it be asserted that French-Principles, ini thical to all Regular Government - , had tint made !heir way into this Country ?, And if so, could it be denied that there existed serious and real danger ? te concluded by an etilogium on the late Chancel_ r of the Exchequer, fbr the .measures he had k in to tub,lue this spirit. „,` l r. WiLBERFORCE said, he rose in conse -Vence of two or three things Which h a g b een ad yr'etl against the condud of the late Ministers. , tltC g xr ive great commendation to the terms in which "ohle Lord (Lord BELoaAvt) had couched his : it did not convey general, vague; and in t.:erithinate praise, but fixed upon specific ativan .Z", whieb the Country had derived front the con. of the late Ministers, and 'to with h no one $ -41 ' 'refuse his tribute of praise. Isle defended the g y re of a ship rescued from the tempest, which 12 6 ,..t )r her-H onoura bl e G ent l eman h a d converte d to a • i l " e fent' purpose. " It is," said he, " by the bless t: - .g (4 'Providence, and the efforts of the late .iVII - that the vessel of the State. has been teticued, • -- - °t "Illy from the waves, but from the hand's of the : t tn „ elll 3r, - anti has been conduded triumphant into With regard.to the strongest ground 'of 4 ,.„uttlent which ,the opposite party has chosen, the :r t gtlation of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, ▪ happy, • for that Right Hon. • Gentleman's this, is their strongest ground, for it is es k is eart.he imagined. That his remaining in is accounted by them so essential to the inte tark• Of the Connery, is a high cOmpliment .to his pfzCat•- Yet, if lie had at any tirne Sliewn a want t,4' for the interests of his Country ; if at any e he had relaxed in his efforts, or if he had d e _ arm ed he r i n t h e moment of }serif, from any imp ro - • r motive, he deserVes to be censured, and I should to join in it. But -lei us attend to t h e r ' 4 0.1 he has pursued since his resiation, a n d rd°4) rftrt We can krill the best judgment 'of th e ~3 t ves which-intlueed him to resign: Lerus ob ifve the Magbanirnity with which behas suppo t t e d di e,N'li n i stry which succeeded - hime the spirited a n d tsinterested. manner in 'which he as .come forwa r d. b approve the peace Which - the'y have made"; let lio ubserv e t he'greittneSs of his nihdoh 'these occa tiotiss and then withhold our praise if, we earn: An d oe r . l ,•', G entletnan has said, that so great a resp ect th„. ffky - to private' feelings, that he approves of t i -se who support the late Minister from 'mo t i ves p r i Pers brialfriethiship. For my . own part, I resped Ivt ?ate feelings as much as he does; but . -I neither 1,„,:9 vote mysett; nor would I approve of others i ng fro m suc h mot i ves , on ' the present occa aw:/' The late Minister .has a claim to their th', Pr ' r t from much higher motives. His merit i 3 of 4, 1 ,5 t exalted kind ; 'vet I cannot approve of the v oti t : a n of art Honourable Gentleman. to return a • th e r 'thanks to him exclusively. He indeed, as ti o ,, l ead s the prime mover of -the late Administra tis") gave energy and.... vigour to' the whole; but sestrneasures-were al submitted to the - review-of the . th e i c ' f. the Cabinet, and modified.. and ;amended by t : united wisdom. It is therefore an ill-judged . 1..1 0 invidious measure, to return the thanks of the thee to one Member of the Ministry exclusive of • I shall i not trouble the.. House with enter , t e, i l i linut e l y i nto t h e subjeds advanced in the course • .poi the deb ate: t h ere are, h owever ,.-.one , or -two there which I feel myself o bli ge d to remar k u pon. t h e r, 'are some p arts o f th e l ate Ch ance ll or of d e f'tehequer' s con duit,, which, _in my opinion, se ni rv e.patti c elar commendation. In the first place, , th e .mention that energy with which lie roused, titthepirit of the Country to repel the dangers which Pr osr e ,, d around it. When others- sunk under. the a nd I _ . 'ct of tile. evils which threatened us, his firm to otesolute co gave new courage and energy own'eConntry, and raised, it to a level with his to tiny. mind. The merit which ranks next Publi c s ' ti a-n.kendant one, is the disinterestedness and , ad, Virit with which he looked forward to the tq th nt age, the relief, the prosperity of future ages,. • e regulations which he introduced - into the. than `e's• and the plans which he formed. for the dis lizit,!!,°f the burdens of the people. Instead of that.. e haswiyiy of temporary expedients with which d. use r ,. c t. qt was narged, I am of opinion that his con . Pto u e of ireEtly the reverse ; and its being so is •a 'th ere , t he highest integrity and political wisdom. rn s • n , s is anotherpart 'the Right Hon. Gentle tnits,i(C)"duft w hi c h I dwell on with particular.ad 'tner„, 11 . • When i t was necessary to 'call forth the 9I thlt' eonntry. in its own defence, he did r. so - a Z 1 an d hitteoidity beyond all praise ;.when again the County eriewed a ii;tsh'to't "Viitce,7A ;rifts as-ready to comply with its Wishes': 'When a PeaCe had been concluded by other MiniSterS, after he himself had retired froni oEice, being Convinced that the Nation wished for Peice, and thitt the terms of - the Peace Were adraniageoils to the Country, he came forward to support that Pea Ce. His magnani- . miry in , so doing is unparalleled ; in thiS 'cbn duet he stands almost unrivalled and alone. This magnaniMity appears in his whole con_ dui during the War: He knew that' the Coun try was powerful, but he knew also that it was free. He did not therefore madly oppose its wishes for Peace ; •but as soon as those-were manifested, he made overtures to that purpose ; and when those overtures failed,, he again roused; the energy of the Country to compel the Enemy to grant us honour able terms. These rherits of my Right Hon. Friend are known and allowed by all ; the United voice of the Country has proclaimed them aloud. With re gard to the motives which induced him to retire from office, they do not fall under thepresent dis cussion ; but that they •were' honourable and patriotic, - let me appeal to . the •voluntary Sup port he has given to the honourable and pa triotic men who have succeeded him. If they wish to secure the approbation of their Coun try as he has done; let them pursue his steps ; let them tail forth the energies of the Country in the arts' of-Peace, as he did ill the petils of War. I can. not colielnde this speech without observing on what has been said with regard to my Right Hon. Friend's cOndu& before the War: The accusation, so often refuted, has been renewed, and he is again charged with being the author- of the War. I shall 'only repeat in answer,' what I have-often stated, that I am convinced that he was- not the author-of the War. 1-fis whole 'previous system of Policy is an irrefra gable confutation of this charge: His . systern of Finance, the grind measure of his Administration, could only be pursued 'in times of tranquillity. The mention "of Finance reminds me of another -great merit of this illustriotk Stateintan: His .financial, talents are allowed by every one; and they are such its call for universal admiration. When he had riA toted a plan for easing the burdens of the People in the hour of Peace, he was suddenly called to pro- vide resources fin' a dangero and bloody War. To the latter object lie accordingly turned his at-' tention, and by his unrivalled financial talents shiny-- ed the .Nation hoW to bear and to flourish under circumstances which almost every one else looked upon as altogether insupportable. Such, therefore, being the merits of this great . man, and such being the beneficial consequences- Lich have resulted from the con i ;luel of the -late Adminisiration, I conclude with giving my most hearty consent to the Amend ment of my Noble Friend. • Sir ROBERT PEEL said, be hoped the House • would pardon him, if he entered at some length into a part of the subject which he -thought had not been sufficienrly attended to have the honour, he said, to be- a - Member of the Com_ mercial World ; and have had occasion to trap_ salt with the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, business of great difficulty and importance From personal knowledge, I am therefore enabled to state, that no Minister ever understood so welt, the Comrriercial Interests of the Country. He knew; that the true sources of its greatness, lay in its pro duftive industry, and he therefore encouraged that industry. Circumstances obliged him to lay bur. .thens on the Country, bu t he had first taught the Country how to bear.these burthens. Large Debts were..indeed, contraded, but they were more than equalled. by the increase of wealth arising from. his wise measures. It is not unusual. for a Coun. .try to flourish in Peace; but where is there another Minister to be fcund, under whose uspiees the re sources Of his Country had been doubled in the. Midst of an expensive • and vigorous War ? Debts have been, contraeted ; but they ate ail domestic debts, and .the interest is spent among ourselves. Whatever may be said of our burdens, it is evident to all, that the Country; under their pressure, is more fiourishing that at any former period.. Many things have . : been urged to spew the evils. arising from our Paper Money ; but .I will venture to;assert . ,, that no issue of Paper Money has beeitruade.mhich we have not Funds to support ; unlikend?:neighbohi ing Coun try; which. issued Paper MOlney -till lts yllue was de reCiated ,almost to . nothing.—Sir RasERT then adverted to Mr. :Pyrr's political measures. .He said, that he had been blamed for the :support he had given them ; but he was convinced that it was the duty of the Comtnercial World to support every Administration, ,till 'they had aftitally rendered themselves unworthy of public confidence. Hesaid, that he himself had at first doubted of the propriety of. the vigorous measures adopted by the late Chan cellor of the Exchequer ; ,but experience had con vinced him of their wisdom. ,He then made a few observations , on the applicaticin of the Unclaimed Dividends to the purposes of Government,' on the Suspension of the Habeas.. Corpus Aft, and on the Bank Restriftion ; measures which had at first given him some apprehensions, but which had not been attended with any ill consequences whatever:—,, " I believe," continued he, " I believe that to the measures of the late Chancellor of the Exehe. quer, .1 owe the liberty of delivering my sentiments at present in this House ; that to, him I owe the p6isession of that wealth and rise in the world which my industry has acquired. Ido not spell k,solely of my. self; the same may be said of every individual whose industry has succeeded under his proteftion. Fie has been the benefaftor of his country; he has.ne gieded no one's interest but his own. It has in deed been said, that though he did not enrich him self, he secured his infinence by bestowing pensions and titles on others. But , had, Ret ; ,occasion to, have recourse _to such arts; he haky,fured suffici. ent support by honourable measures u ; three parts of the House, who were incapable of bein g bribed, .were his.friends. When such is the case, it is my opinion that the House should not content 'themselves with a bare vote of:thanks, but bestow on him some more solid 'mark of their approbation. It would be disgraceful. 19 the Nation to ,allow such a man to retire to latiguish.in, poverty. 1 for one would be s happy to contribute to prevent this ; not ftom any personal motives, ,for I. have. not the ho hour of being acquainted .with the Rigkt Hon. Gen tleman, but on..account of the great,and important services which'he has..tenticred his country." 6% P. TURN'ER followed or, the- satfT side. of the qnestion, ar.d 'that be could r)Ot br . e';iitink Ole sitenct heforsOMß in order to expies,slus approbation - of the p'!elcnt Motions• • nOUS E said, he gave his hee'rty assent to the :Amendment, as•he Considered The ori .. MotiOn derogatory to the Honota. of the Rouie, after the tfpprObation they had uniformly beStoSved upon the measures of the late AdministratiOnl He was happy, that while he Made theiteetilogium, he only spoke opinion of the Public. 'He then Went into some of the meritorious services of the late Chancellor of the EXchequer, to the reparation of whose illustrions e name - , he said, his own praises would add as little, as the detraaion of others - Woirld take away. Mr. GREY said, 1' Whether I consider the ge.' neral topics of this - debat'e, or the Merits of the individual to whom almost the whole praises and panegyrics of the 'Hon. Gentlemen on the oppdsite side of the House haVe been direaed; I cannot te frain froin eXpresSing ity decided disapprobation 'of the Amendhaenta which haie been offered to the ori ginal MotiOn of my Hon. Friend (Mr. Nr Cricie es). The Hon. Gentlemen who have opposed this Motion have Confined themselv6 to vague and general eia logium, withotit condescending to those, ptrticular facts which must be considered, before we proceed to sanaion AinendmentS whicli insult the feelings of a Nation, by the eulogium of the man . who caused the Miseries under which she now groans.. atpretent confine my observations to the Amend:. meta of the Noble Lord. .1 must repeat my re-, gret that he has nut taken a Mme Parliamen. nary method to introduce The Motion of. My Honourable Friend should have first been dis. posed of, and' then the Noble Lord mi g h t , i n the customary manner, have introduced his Mo tion: ',Serting the Question of Order aside, how_ ever, I do not hesitate to own, that in some paid- culars I 'completely assent to the Noble Lord's Amendment. That part which states the meritori ous services .of Our Arrriy and Navy, must be ap._ proved. by every lover, of his Country. Our Army and Navy have by their valour exalted the glory of the Nation ; atad T if they ,have in any thing failed, it is not to be iMputed to them, but to the illjudg ed plans of those' who sent them on ' ridiculous and impraaicable depeditions. But .1 will appeal to the Hoose, if it be proper to mingle the aCtions of 'our brave Army and NaVy with the other parts of this Motion ? But not only their glory has been incorprirated into the praises of the late Ministers; other topics Still more remote have been drawn*into their .eulogibm. One has said, that His Majesty ewes the (2i-6.Am he wears to the late Chancellor of the 13xchequere But if His Majesty's-Crown "was really in danger, which h by no means admit, was there not - a numerous band.of other loyal Subjects, *who would. have gathered round and secured its . safety, 'independent of that Right Hon, Ge a rl a „ man's efforts ? It has been said,- that . by his skill the Vessel of the State has been enabled to rideout the storm. , But is that a fact .?- Is - the storm in_ deed over; and the. Vessel moored in security ? Let us compare the relative situation .of France and., Great Britain, and then see if the assertion be well 'founded. Hia .very friends, whoshared with him in the councils of'the War, deny that security has been obtained* by the Peace. I ask then where are the . boasted benefits he has bestowed on the country ? .We are told that 4 , we have gaited all that.we haVe not lost." To mve that by contrary measures we shoolld have lost any thing,- requires stronger 'tog!). meats than have yet been offered to the House.' If this argument be good, we should haVe been in 'the greatest danger if •we had made Peace at an earlier p er i o d, and before such oceans of human blood' had been shed. But let it be proved that' we should have incurred greater danger by making Peace with France then, than now. We should then, - as now, have made Peace with the French Republic.— Was that Republic then more dangerous than it is now ? Is Banaparte's government founded on Jaa cobinism or 'is it not.? Let that be denied; still who will 'assert that the danger which has been as serted to arise from' the example of such an usur pation doeS not: still ekist ?. But in faa, his go vernment rests7.'enr4oobinism, • the same foun dation on which it was!: , .originally laid. I 'reason On the principles which Gentlemen held during .the Ware and ingtdre what other line of conduct would Robespierre, or any of the , other of the French Governors have different' from what Bonaparte maybe expeaed to pursue ? Would not the freedom of the press, of public opinion, have been suppressed by' them in the same manner, had they once established themselves ? Any Jaeobin, secured -in .power e mOuld have followed the same course that Bonaparte has done ; and all the danger of treating with a Jacobin, remains in treating with him. ,An Hon. Gentleman-has declared, he.adheres to his former opinion, that , this .Country was not the aggressor in this Wat. After what has been said on this subjea, I shall only.'reply, that I still adhere to my opinion, that it was. But allowihg, for argu ment's sake, that France Was the aggressor, the late Minister seems to me. to deserve very little credit for putting off the period of accommodation to the pre sent time. Will any one say, that we have now .procured better terms, thah we could have demand ed when there -was an Austrian Army in the heart of FFance ? Or who will, say that we might nor then have procured better terms, ,and. the territories of France at this 'day not have been so immense ? An Hon. Gentleman has praised the late Minister for his peculiar dexterity in seeking out proper occa ,sions to treat. This I should have thought the last eulogiumahat y ould have been bestowed upon him. : When .specesafolay lipollavpys refused to, treat ;, he always offered a to r eteai as ten he was worsted and subdued. .Wheo a ßonaparte hatd conquered Italy, and Moreau and , Jourdan were in the• heart of Germany, .fie offered to treat : when . . the de feat of Jourdan gave. .him a momentary , proa. pea, .of success, : he, broke off the Negotia tions.. When the tide of success, again - turned in favour of France, he again offered to treat : when Austria was again viaorious, he again broke offthe 'Negotiations. -Was not this conduct contrary to all experience, to all maxims of political wisdom ? and .are we now called. upon to approve it.? The state in whieh.he left the conntry,.has made us rejoice in . a Peace that nothing but necessity could have forced: us - I gate my appeo%ie, PrellininatieS, so much did I myself app,reh, ani , thing could make the ret taet - rny eiqh.obaie,:; • have sufficient groUnd, for doing so, nor. ort,' . tfie_events which have since 't a k en "plaee„- more in the defence of thoseh - meaures which corn_h pelted us to shch'cenditions.; • Where is our power ?. Where is nirr security ? France has gained •all she wished her dominion has been extended to those, boundaries nature his fixed for her. Nay, she= has even eitehded dominion ,beyond the-Alps' since the conclusion 'of the IlefinitiVe Treaty, How' then can it be Said. '6at this Countty is seethe ttiuniphant ?. The Continent is completely over- - awed by France. Letns then torn our eyes :to our Conimercial and Maritime affitiri, usisee What we have to bonst of. I was astonished, to heat a - Noble Lord WI) conduCted'the Negotiation, boast in these respeCts.; A review of the COMpalhitiVe situation. of. Great *Britain and France with regard to eommereittrand , maritime affairs be 'fdie and 'after the War, 'will thew what grounds we 'had for such a beds% France, before so inferior; has gained the mean of gOOn tivalling us by the extent of sei-O6ast she has ac' aired in Europe, stretching froth the Texel to the St raitsof Messina. Site hits excludedus from Africa ; shy has opened up out Asiatic trade; by the possefsion of Louisiana, she hits the whole of Ametica laid ether mercy, Shall we be told of the security and , advantages gained by Great Britain ? Yet, all this - has been - brought on by the presumptibri and'iniseondti6l` of burl Whore we are now called u i ‘o:i to Praise. 'We ate called to make the culogium of a Minhiter„ whose measurea- have been untiOrmly h Marked with failtfre and disgrace. It has been said in his defence, hat lie,had unp;h, ralleled . difficitiiieS . .to struggle with. • If he had difficulties,' they were of his own making; the re_ suitsultof his own miscOnduo ; - :for, at the'comMena.,. ment of 'the War, his advantages were so greats that - he himself exulted in them. Let us then consider hoW these difficulties arose. The ob , jets proposed by , the War,' Were .to reduce the power of France, and to firce het to renounce her dangerous Democratic Government. Let us see what Measpres were pursued to attain this end;"— Mr. GREY then proCeeded to 'state c•Varions stances of misconduß in 'the prosecution'of the Wit-, He contended,' that our attack on the French West India islands could hive no effect on the internal licy Of France, bin by justifying the selfish policy of Austria, had disgusted Prussia, and fhistrated' the whole intention of the Confederacy. He then', adverted u to the cessions the'w/y Made by the Oe finitivetreiny, which he Contended we were not in a condition to 'resist. He then pointed ont 'several errors which he said existed' in the late Chancellor bf the Exchequer's boaSted System of Finance; and concluded With allowing that Right: Hon: deman's great tnl ;nts " but," said he, " these 4 1 m . lents, are rather, splendid than useful ; they have been. employed rather to support bad rheavares that' to promote useful ones; and consequently, however great, they deserve censure rather, than praise." I.6rd H A WEES EU RY he` rose to aniwer some of the obsetvations which Were made- by the Hon. Gentleman who had just SIC down; because in severalThatts of his Speech that Hon. Gentleman_ had alluded,to him So'partieularlY,=that he felt him.. self called upon to rise at that period of the' rebate,. to state, as shortly as he Could; the grounds on which he could give his vote for the. Motion of hisk Noble Friend. Pot before he. entered on the general arguments of ' the Hon. Gentleman, he could not , help advertin7 to that •part f his Seeeth-Which're.,, lated to his Noble Friend's-Making that Motion, which Motion, he would assert, arose oul'of another' Motion which had been made by'han }fon., Baronet (Sir FR/Idlers BURDETT), nut then 'in his' place,' who on that occasion moveil in substance, a Censure upon the late Administration; and the present Motion beconies still more neceve , ry, as it' aresd out of a Speech' Made bY" that. ribnotirable Ba ronet previous to his Motion ; for after an attack Sci pointedly made lot _his Right Hon: Frie,)d ()Ate PITT) who was at the head Of that AdrniniStration; as his name had been brought forward in such a manner ; it was due to hiM Who had been for see many years the Minister of this Conotry, is i4'as' due to the House which had.for so in my years ' iv - -; en him their support, and . partieularly :in the late' .contest in which we were gall nor to suffeii such a"Motion `as that made by the Hop. Baronet; and the Speech which preceded it, .to . pasS over with a 'mere negative; 'but to instituteParliamena,' ary_proceeding, -stating the reverse of such I\ l l . stion and ,SpeethTpteceding it, which, could:net he - doni without expressing the approbation of 'that Haase of the conduit of his Right Hon. Friend and Col= leagues throughont the arduous struggle in which' they had .been engaged. The Hon. Gentle?rian' who lead just sat down, had adverted' to the 'sub_ jeer} of the War-which was just concluded ; he had mixed with his observations upon that sobjea some' comments upon the Treaty 'of Peace in the general view of, things, it was perfeCpy fair for him so to do. It was not his intention, however, to enter into the detail of these arguments; he admittedite•was cotnpe.:. - tent to the Hon. Gentleman to advert to the Peace just concluded, the terms of which, under all the dr.. cumstances, ought to be satisfactory. -He admit red, hovever, that the Hon. Gentleman hada right to' denyhir, and to enter into an inouity'either into the principle of the War, or thectinclua of tire War. On the subjeti. oldie War, theHon.GcerticolhEn, how.: ever,.and others who had take n th e s ;rise ramie of ar..; gument- on former occasions, had made a mistake in the ghargler. of the War, and mode of eMkiderint' it, namely . , they had considered the contest which we had just concluded, as !;,at of an ordinary War which we were accustomed to ;"such as, a' War for general principles of teat:anal intcrestHa general balance of rower—or for the purpose of resisting the aggrandizement of a rival . Power. It was in no such ! view, such a War as that we had just, concluded„ ought' to be considered. He took the, liberty of describing this War, as . letid:ng .to bring about a "revolution' in the mann e r s o f men, and as having its foundation in princ'inles to tally different from any other War in - which this or any other Country _was ever engaged. It . was dif ferent in'its moral effect, as introducing principles' which could not fail to be dreadful' to serroun.ding Nations,, and • which principle, if not resisted, threatened to overturn prirciples of every