The Sun. — London, England, 1813-02-19 00:00:00

'roust OF COMMONS, .t THUIISDAY, rEa. 18. • • The names of defaulters at tlielast ballot were read oter, and those who bad not been present at the ballot on that day, were ordered to attend at the ballot oti‘Tnesday next. Committees were balloted for to consider the Petitions against the Election of liaztlincre ttnd Colchester. Wtirrn, brought up the names of the Mem bers, brllloteil 4,*or the Committee on the I.Lizel mere Petition, They were 'as follow : Tboi. Wood, le;sq, G. Tio?er, Lutt.trel, Tsq. n. Vunderhoyden, Lovd G. Derestortl, hid Chas.Fdwaristoue, Mak. 'Singleton, T. MOtlftnd, Hon. T. Brand, 11. FifWe et I , Hob. - W. Lttuutlas. Sir J. Shmv, The nttmes'of the Members hallotted for the Committte on the Colchester Petition 'were also caned over. They were as follows : C.'Grant, jun. 11. 13ruen, John fl tier, W. R. Cartwright,' A.. H. Hole worth, Thomas Knox , Vyse, Gustavus Roclfort, Frena ' ' sir C. Saxton, Bart. H. P. Collins, NOMINE.LS. James Dam:kin% W. Bootle, Egg. Right. Hon. R. P. Carew Sir Er Knatchhull, Burt. The name's of the defaulters at that day's bal lot were ordered to be eilled over on Monday next. Colonel LoNorT,Et.n.pre , iented a Petition from the City of Orel:, signed by more than One thousand persons; aphid Ale Catholic Claims. sir If. PARNELL potAponed his motion on the Irish Tithes, till Monday next. The Starch-Bill Was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. COUtri:NEY brought up the reports of the Committee of Stipply, and of the Committee of Ways and Means, both . of which were received and agreed to. 'the Land-Tax Conunissioners Names Bill was read a second time, and ortlereo to go through a Committee. AM ERI CAN %VAL Lord C . OTLYALEAGH, in rising to call the atten iion of the House to the voluminous body of evi dence on their table, which had been communicat ed ,to them by his itoyal Highness the Prince Regent, was confident they would hear in mind the cit cumstances tinder which it had been laid before them. Had the question of this night been merely, Whether or not Ministers, in the late ne gociations with America, had soperformed their duty as to merit the ,npprobation.of Parliament, such a mass of papers would not have, been laid before them. 'this for their own personal conduct would not have been necessary'.' 1t was enough for them to discharge the ,arduous duties of their situations in such a manner as to satisfy their own „eonscie,nees, without ealli9g for the approbation of. Parliament. It bad been :theuglit more pro per, us .it was more natural, for them to leave it Open to those who thought they had depart ed froM that line of conduct which plight to have been pursued., to attack them, before the submitted to Parliament the grounds upon Which-they inv. ceeded, The papers now on their table had been . Tirotinced at the inSfanee of other persons, and particularly in complianee with the wishes of an Lion iDentlettrati (Mr. Whitbread), and from u desire ou the pint of thetuse4es, to call for the opinion„ of. Parliaitient on their conduct. But *though they did not call for the expression of tm Ho their conduct in ;the correspondence which had tal,en phice between this country and Aattriea, and which had been continued for two years arid a half (Irmo the bcginuing of 1810 to the mitt 0f.18,1`2), they had no reluctance to e v ery information in the,ir, pc.wer, no r(:- -4itt,:e to submit the whole of their contittet to Parliament, and no disposition . to avoid the, fullest, inv.etttigat The point which ought alone to occupy ,the .1 this night was, wire,- ther under all eii•cionstances, tUirs calamitous war in which we were engaged (he thought it eala- I :1401.13os- it extended the War beyond that sphere, bitforestaciently to which it had pawl- , (mil l , been conti4o , l) sr,ts necessary. He knew of mm quarter to which time war could have been ex tended with :leo prospect of atdvatitawy In e ith er party than to the United States of America ;- but if all Lnututed the war be trusted. all would be sp.. tae'd of its . justice. lie spoke the lease of his ; ane he trusted that of the Parliament amid the country; but still, e could not butt con sider the war us a calamity Of the first importance to the country.. If, however, they heel not the cor-:olation to reflect, thatthcir efforts had. averted the war, they had the next. great consolation-- that of finding theiw;elves engaged In a war., on grounds - so just, on principler4ounded on consider ations ' of such paramount importance, that the cutmlry eras carried into it wit.lta stlirit of unani mity, which gave the best pledge that it would be prosecuted with vigour, and that peace (thelegi, Omit& cad of all war) would be accomplished' with the least pcissible delay. This ciretnnstance had great weight, not only with the people of this cowl try, hot also wi th the people of America ; for he: t i iid wit helivetheAtnerican,pefltieso dead to a sense ofjustioe, as toprevent its frvoing - dne weiglat on the, other side of tlit.-Witter: 11: would be likely to have the effect of mating. the war popular with theArne rieans, and oil encouraging them to call loudly on their Cloverninent to give them peace. This being the ease, it would be for them to decide whether o r not the. war was just and necessary. The pro poiltion which he should have to submit to: theM, wou ld b e to assure his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, that, confident in its jitstice, he might' re ly on their best exertions to support the honour: of the Crown, and maintain the,ancient:rights and. general intetestS of the country. He should Waste their time if he were 'to travel very far into the coutents of the palers4felore them. Many of the, points whiCh they ellibractlqqad bt:eli it different flaws discussed, anti the, (Tinton of Parliament, directly or collaterally, t;di en nn . them, He ni:e sill therefore intdc,Lvour, it s fi l lo rtly as pos.. to u nl tht:h.' attention to the latte,rpart of the,eorrespondr.nce, to :O.ICW the neee.ssity of the war. in cidling pa the lluiuie to support the Ad dress lie 14ropow, he felt much confidence in dose Ocr:istratioa V. Itich had been mad?: in the Itts't Roliameut, douhtle,s 1.6t11 a view tti the bust interests of the country, that if tin entieessioni then made, in the hope . of bringing the dificrenk;e6 between the two countries to an amicable termi nation—if they failed to remove the existing angry feeling—if America took thedisposition to concili ate for a submission to any demands 'she might put forward, that then they would unite against her pretensions, to upheld the honour, the eights, end the • interests of this' country. He trusted those persons would feel themselves responsible to the country for What they bad thus advanced, and-that their support would, be given with as much firmness its it had been promised with sin-, cerity—that America might tee they were dispaaed to be her friends, they were not disposed to se ' cond her unreasonable wishes. He trusted, on this occasion, no important difference of opinion would exist, and he thought the unanimous vote of that niglkt,ttould lay the best foendation,for a permanent 'tad hanourubJe peace, If they looked at the documents published by the American Go vernment, relative to the causes of theavar, titere might appear reason to fear that the day,of peace was at a great or an immeasurable distance. In the declaration of war of the President, and iu . the report of the Minister for Foreign Rela tions, it would he seen that every thing was pressed into those publications that could tend to widen the breach between the two coun tries, Every old complaint and ancient griev e ance, though long before settled, disavowed, or tertired s were Is ere brout;lit . forward, no accom pa - nied by a statement of the coosegoent steps taken by the British Governmeitt. These were used to influence the miuds of ,the people, in order to make the wsr popular; had popes. explanations been given with them, instead of justifying the war, they Vrot4d hase furuislied asgutnents directly opposite. The .:%inerican GoVerantent haft intik a claim to . a desire for peace, on .the.,proposition made for an armistice, when the declaration of war was issued. If any - thing was meant hi this, in what temper had it been erged ? Why, if such a disposition existed, lied stattniteots been made in the declaration, false in thetietil,yea s or if nut false, no longer it, fairness todie(:triged, the sub ject of .complaint heving been tfolie away, by ex planation er atonement ? The Orders in Council, and the Riegel Blockades (es they called them), but above all, the practice of impressing the Kinght subjects when found on board: American mer chantmen, bad been complained of by America,— The Illegal ['Joel:vie* (us they were termed) of 1806, it might be said, had been put out of the question, by the proposition. made for an armi stice, but this saint-set had •been so preSsed, is to leave the English Ciovernment no opportunity of deciding on it, in a manner satisfactory to Ame rica, without compromising the rights the interests of England. frhe House Would re collect that Mr. Ilatsscll had claimed, .on the part of his Government, indemnity (Vont this country America for all the captures made tinder the :Orders in. Council, and the !blockades of 1806. I,le did not say that, at a future period 'of the negociatien,' this point might not have been given lip ; but, ,as . the ques tion stood at that inomeat, America could have right to expect that- claims so urged would be ad nutted. With respect to the Orders in Council, on which various discussions had taken place in that I : louse, be thought he might venture to say, that those who opposed them differed front those who supported them, 111.01:0 on the question of centiliter expediency, than 'on the question of the right of this country to Desert on Fri:keep the Measure 411,e had devised for our destruction, Be wished to wave adiscussion on this subjeet. at present, bet he wished it to be distinetly atiderstood, that Rli nisters, in consenting to a relaxation of that sys tent, had never fur a moment abandoned the right they lied to resort to it, nor suffered it to be called, in question. He begged to' . be tunlerstosal at all times to assert, that the measure was not only kis , tifiebles but necessary, at the time it was resorted to—not merely: na a measure of retaliatiott on France,h4tasone of eonnuereial policy ; and what ever pressure might have been felt in this country from the want of the Atuvricau market, lie would say, that but for the' manly resistance oPposed to the hostility of the enemy, France would have been as „commercially triumphant on the (lottSla neat., as she had unfortunately been in a "military point of view, and England would have had no .means of contributin s is to that-great change which had now taken place in the affaiss of Europe. He begged to be regarded as the admirer and the ftd lower of:those principles on which that sytein bad' been teken tip by his Right Iltie„Frieod now un happily no more. ft had been modified, and its • operation brought within the narrowest bounds circumstances would permit in the ye a r aide. At - - teethe publication of the docoment issued by the Duke of Bassano, new efforts bad been made to imike the operation of, our Orders' hs COuncil less prodactive of inconvenience to neutrals. An offer had been made to America strictly to enforce the blockading system, or to modify it in concert : with her. Dispositions had always been taanifested to relax in fa your of neutrals the measures necessarily resorta to, so far as this could be done without , proving destructive to the principles on which they were fohndeals--40 coerce France, and oblige her to abandon her new system, The blockades now 'brought forward had long been whelly !meow plaiped o on the part of America. Three years heti elapsed , without their being brought into dis erosion. The conduct. of the English Govern ment., its this respect, was so tar from tieing of fensive to America, that a special represeatation made by the American Ministers in London regarding this, es founded on a disposition- to' fa yotir Ameriek. After stating this, it was fume ce!sary for him,to argueoil thts point tit grept length, pale was one: in which he believed all public characters in this country were agreed, it had originated in a Govertnnent of Which Mr. Fox was Secretary for Foreign Affeirs, aunt the Adininistratibn which had followed,' Maintained the, justice of the system of blockade adopted, by England, if supported by an adeqeate force,.--it veils nothing more than a'hlOckado, resting on the ordinary prniciple of maritime Fo x not institute it till in had Written to the A dosirolty, to know if it could be supported by an adequate force, and he therefore trusted it itowt on grounds w hi c h, ' m ash er the : Government of Ann:Ace s eor the Government' of France could by possibility shake. , `1.•I„, roast a s t er estingpttrt of the case wes, the general qutAtion whether comitry hid Or h a il nwt a rizlit to impress her own subjects when Wand ! on board American merchantmen ? This subject closely affected the interests of this country, and it was one whichthey_had been t aug h t to b e li eve of the fi rs t importance to our naval pOwee. He would not fatigue the House bv going through the %%tripes letters which he had received from Mr. and the American Agent for Prisoners in this country, and those which had passed be tween Admiral Warren and the American Mini ster, .Though some shadea of difference might ap pear in various parts of the correspondence, the House would ,feel, that no substantial differeace of importance .could -exist. In looking to this moat important question, he wished .to direct the attention of the House to the temper with which the claims of America,hudbeen urged, though he would be the last man in the World to cora:end that the temper manifested in the discassioo was that : which ought to. call forth resentment, He. wes not dis , - posed. to undervalue the ineonveniencies to which America had been exposed from the measures of the .tlelligerent Powers, as all neutrals must suf fer more or less ; but America herself ought, however, to do justice to the earnestness with which bugland had, laboured to make th ose in , conveniencies, as far as they depended on her, as light as possible. She ought to admit, while she manifests so much anxiety to protect her own sea mien, that England had a right to the, service of her own subjects. This was a right essential to our conservation,, which belonged to us equally in war and hi peace. That which was, merely a question of convenience with her, was one of the first importance to es, the decision of which might go to shake .our 'very existence, America had, in his opinion, prostituted the characterOf her Governmeet, in takingthe tone which she had as uunted on this subject, which was founded. neither nit reason nor sense, and only calculated to excite unitist prejudi,!es,which might befatid to the future harmony pt the two nations. It was pot possiblefor , America to say, looking fairly and dispasaionately at the merits of the case, that the English ,Go vernment could have an interest in acting the part imputed to it. , They esserted, that American sub jects were.seized to man English .ships, and that the persons Seirsed were treated with peculiar hardship, 'and it was very unfairly assumed, that every seaman taken from en American vessel, was an American subject, The American Go . %eminent accused this country of having ins= pressed 15 or `.20,000 of her seamen to mee,Eng lish vessels. Could it he believed that the Englih Goveruinent were,so dead to all the great interests of state, 1M:to risk a wee 'with America for such an object? So far fron t th ere being any rea son to suppose that, twenty thousand American seamen were in our service, he could state, that at twit periods not very distaot, aat order had. been , given to call on those who could claim to be dis charged as American seamen to 'rotate forward, when though it WAS not to be sepposed that fewer than were titled to their discharge would come forward, out of: the whole .-numhee of men em ployed in our Navy, now amounting to 145,000, in January, 18,1 l, out of the twenty thoosand, mentioned by th e A mer i can • Government, but three thousand five hundred, who could in arty way prefer a Claim to discharge on .this ground, came .forward. When a shidlar call was made at the begiiining.of the preSent year (many having in the mean time 'been liberated), the eumber fell three or four hundred short of that which he had jestatated. 'Phis, was the limber of individuals 'whO asserted that they had a 'right to be so, disch arge d. Th e usual proportion of those entitled, to a discharge on this ground, was one in four of the timelier of tho se w h o appl i ed to be dismissed the service, Three out of four Were usually found to have nu right whatever toi such a discharge, Now, it' it tins' admitted that many, who were really Americaus, froth the difficulty of procuring proofs of their being so, were wroug fully detained, and tailing the number thus kept to amount to hail the total number claiming to he discharged on such grounds, it would be seeti, that instead of twenty thousaed Americans scanted being ill our service, there might lie sixteen or 17 eoutinued iu the.llavy, metre' y to the • wish of the English Government, Could the ,flotise believe, could any matt be infatuated, (for he regairded it as as infatuation even itrAtue rica), that England wits'io distressed for men to Juan her fleets; that her pride would bend to such a resource, and her Governmeet sanction such an act of injustice ? Aruerica, he trusted, would shortly acknowledge, that we had not wronged her, and feel that the question was---not whether we should tike her seamen, but whether England shoUld submit to be deprived of her,own ? lie now clone to speak of the hazard to which this eountry Would be'exposed. if this point were given up to America. lie hoped he might aay, _withotit.ol - to the American Governmen„ that he had beeO able to see nothing io their conduct which ought to disarm ()sir epprehensi ous , and inspire us with confidence_ to trust our, interests to their keeping. Mra m isters were far fro wishing Ame rican seamen to be impressed, that instructiOns were given not to take men, unless under very par ticular cireunistaneea, who rim in possession of American eertilicates; 'r hese ivatructions, how ever, had nut be :n given without ConSCfnUSllefiS that many of 'these certificates were frauduleetly obtained, Mid so fraudulently granted, that 4 knowledge, of the p,ietke was totally ineonsis teot •With the idee, that we ought to entertain no apprehensions of the conduct of .Amerien Certi ficates were granted ie the United States with a degree of laxity, of which,forthelioneler of Aine 7 rice, every one ought to feel' ashamed, I n N,cw York and Philadelphia, the system of obtaining th6e froth the , collectors Was so scatn,Lihnisly complete, that, at the former place an old woman in One day was suffcred by the collector to quality a whole host. ()n hq . takiog her oath that those she iirtrodoccti were Ametiefills, they were all re gistcycd ns subjects of the United States, and ibis weot on till at last the clerk, Who Was under the the collector, was so abocked, that he aske4 his superioe " if he coeld stair so palpible a cheat to pass, and it he coup{ lend liimsellto so disgrace coil ctor Ilt wlis that lit, acted Join,>ti:t tally ." aiA74 I the old receiving two doNktrs for each, and adl thus aVeore in went 4sAmeriCao subj,cets. At 'Phi ladelphia the proeeeitiossit 'Wete ns bad ; but he would not follow m Hp this Stateent by a detail oi Similar transaction!. He, .batvatert Did America profess to admit that the sub? ' this country were bound to our servie' . ail ir e ) o iyd n lt t lia r l a le, r sp y rt , :li D ckei islgsitibleehnr:)adtt oath of , ed a , ti o d r inA i i c e d g Mates, s t,oa his s ti b K je i c u t g o ? f I. , ; , ) i r t e h g a e l l a l cl i c ; i t ! c b c s i n e t jacosenetd; ent thence arising, he contended, was B of great difficulty, and be woidd say they ought never; to skirt the do( elation, yec under these circumstancl ' view.thecontlit,. of Antericl without . mistrust; and therefore they would not ed in surrendering- to them right attar l law . of nations, %cinch had never been 0 tion before, and which never rations called in . quction. 111 a former stage' ~the _subject of imPressment• subject of di. ; cassion ; but it was moment at.whicti war was declare,l, put forth as that which must be,gicAP riea, or war commence between the tries •; but,this ..was the length .t 0 now went. • 'flit blockado ok . : 1' in force--the Orde,cs in. Council ed--und now it was sid, we Will war .unless this 11160 CMlCeagt this were virtually assented to, Wei consent ,to.an armistice, 15.appeare4., ) ter of Mr. ,I'Lluiiroe to Admiral li T arr i p Lord . now ,oceeded: to de scribo yr between 111tils i , ..1f and - Air. Itusseli , I m vi i t g l l4 l. ( M h r a .7ll l :s et 'se u ll, l 7s d l e : . c lQ W ( t en it 'llig thing to give the character of tan matic agent. I;n willing , however, cult y on a mere question of fora". t waved. -Air. Russell, stated, ,that t' required by his Government for the ( t i a armistice were these r i n should cease to be in force, tilt Council should Ile revoked, and impressment should. be suspended, instructed to require,, bat be had no structions.fronthis Government. AO C.) had asked 'what WaS to be Unde,., , Aflierienu subject and a British subjeci tiler men.naturalized i n America Werg i s a ii ti le d r ? e (I ke a& e d i g r e ajle t g b l :: instructions on these points.. ln A'n e ' received from his Government it carry on a Ore minutes :discussion; opinions.of his own,. hut none 4110 had reason to think were 'those (11 ment ; and when he asked if he no projet to present ? a nswer 161 ° . ! had not." Under these .circtinistance, dation could not proceed, as Alfieri' be bound by any arrangement On' nd a disposition on the part of t U4~t,~? I~e c;filibStiOttiletalitteh an agent, J'rorn test aal rir,+ to the piactice of imPressing, Apeman ships. n e hail titoLigit t tlint he acted the dart lerr he L .thill r. SSeil /V II k; Iris id") little" -§flYieet , and represented it to 1) " 1 ;,,, „fgt, rative impoi l ithee t o Aweri c l' I , ll ent-to Engiand, That whien eer to iII coviion on this•sobject was entertanie,, cttlit:) g rie l t Ilse bare.('fit)l3:ri.::teii!eluiA)nn:,llc'tFrlilici.t;L;l7Get"‘..r3:l''l'l.:';l' jtn:ttxc,ene received by tbe ' ':"lnericau Governinent, bad been tot) habit of thioking connti.y. on alt' ceding to their (leman,ls. v/iis 8s.):1, when the subject during; the , t3'( . 4 6 9vernmelit that be. had eversitu:rati<,rl: ~lr. King their ;v:::at'e°:°l;? Won'tf ioon settled, hilt WhCn's;. had been approved by I';'" l. ` t 'o' and Lord Liverpool came before the i lo they gave it as their decided oPin icu i l il t, e not anti :by meani carried into e:c the discussion of this subject was Lurd4.llollitud Ancl-I.am i :.‘fr. , a irfl , ~`" 11 (4—Three' different ril e ' b i citfced in the course of that uegocia tio9-, eOn Uluistort, ; but after the to o. j c : i' r:i .tw rati t ) n , the two Noble Lord s we"., eel i are each of their projects inad ll ' i , sl ve it as t:lleirc,ltiniolt, filar ( lie treaty ct)ndo-,it)ls, without having 01rycl~f~'+ nue which ought to be digeussed or under any urtnistice, nor wtis it t o ts -. u threat of war helm; held oti'i. ''n e s t nit Imp-n - tout question to Ettr I 't + I. it which was this :--- Jell the utarittlttn *y r t tll`yktp ;It.ti v gi,,el h aer t iie ) nr se sttr ln :teo c i: n le. w mcnt ould he Li t i l e ' L ; i j in u°hat p f 73 part of l ee ) r' people be loana indignant a t the v i a "' British? IVai it in the kricultir3 more retired tames cm the *Nlisilo 4 l - in the E it,tern SLites, where rc' , o' nom were to be found. Yes it s lt 5 1 1:, parts that the war was. toast " rt i }ct 'rril was most cried clown, and on tb-i There the peOple were inost aguinst nit t; and its those district , it “ppeured tt bad been given for PreOlootiar,_ theta the tlivour to enAitge, in ft lc . c d, *Web they were so much intereisit! ceec,led to contrast the temper "",,ht. of u 1 Henri and A uto l ea, be no charge of.;:aitist . the Etig l4 : it 'lit,l for want of`fprbearance, he sea'i prCt one of an opposite flartac. titne to .go into .thk ,ultteeJ roil sh,ntld have, what was. in ins cool, , e lY on slt u l: t fe o e f to A r l y in e j a st s e c rs to li s a n d b e n t i ° , spirit of moderation, vot the! , ' 113 il et;; 11 , lea ns , coi7i the hopes initead of their n ego fl p he 1 t prepare'for that war in which t 4 1 eii , geared likely to terminate; us racti ett of May, they hid sent out lost too , o ttv freers in America how to ocr regret, trouliffith a t the subje: s ij li i s ervice ott Plaint° t or bra': its ace to tue cea sed to om stun of 'a ei l, was a (iii li (I say till'i c , loor ag liOt .1 ,tance till '' t h o ut jel!'° A ild tot be i ;lit loantlOF I been ca lled' .. j ratibilalfel', - ;. : i s t age or t op , . ment,l)Lt• f , wos o vcr , ,• areJ, tiq tt ', 41. i gi On Llir" '1 , n the t* 1 town { c' 1 ' . ',O t ku; '' l i 1 well' 1 . 1 will ' ti ,sfeui;,,,,.. cured i'll,' ritt * '' ' i r, vre o. I- '',, „ 3 %vbgt I' f ell. , T !, I ilg an 41.(irti 1 pos ",„ , ol accts w j .fitfi V... 0 . r , (0 'Vet4 , 0 , rip, tl''' ii .,,, t the ° 4 ; 4 0 1 . the rogio, he() 1 it t ,0.., 1 I. , r , :iott tne ~ I ,d ti, r e f fy, 1 ed. l iv t ilf i ati no tit , i . t. Isltvt i.i , . wide° o , subec" '': 11 3i , w. re Ice ‘ a llegor l'' ~, i i thit ' t, 10 111 oi'''.,,, i `,., it 1t Ire 0 TI. /.. ittiell 11 ' `to of hi' AI), h ('',lll' , it t,'7Sti' ' tli s tancc 4 co olj lilt:rig:a 001 .otik , t,." , ' liF . trielic t in - „,,fitioits ~ ... e ii( 11 . r od v • ,• •4i's ,e a kcn. , 4 '' : II ori ilic( ..1 al r) tiect' j l t .., ec vv 010'`„11111 ire, ft'i t ' I it • ;00 P , tt, P i t I ti •e,tl 1_ ( 4 11 iori# 11 (f C . cov 1 .. f , '‘f ler .ht_r * ll , : .145 ' t i er s i o rt, 14' ew t l l, 11' 1 . ft 44: ,c h 1 ) - , 8.. ;!