The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1806-03-18 00:00:00

NI , • a the case of the ether Commissioners, they had, only been appoinied about arida mcmhs ; and from the time the, Fatimate WAS made, and the cum of 20,0001. votrti, it would seem as if it were thought necessary they should he remunerated almost ar the commencement of their labours. He allowed, that alt p tams who were employ ed by the public, ought to be paid by the pub lic, and ought also to be paid liberally ; but there was a mode, a decency, and a time of payment,w•A l - iCh should also be considered ; and it appeared to him, that the sum of 20,0001. was a prodigious amount for any c silences that could have occurred in the short time those Commissioners had been appointed. But, besides this, there was a further sum of 5 0001. which was entrusted in their hands for the purpose of meeting cnntingeneies.— This was what surprised hint more than the other, especially when he relict - led, that all the expenees of the Naval Commissioners, during a period of three years. and including their journies to Wool wich, Portsmouth, Plymouth, and every other ghee they had visite-1, in the execution of the ex tensive duties imposed on them, and the var iety of matters they had to inquire into, amounted only to the sum of 50001. Having stated this, he would t trouble the House further at present, than to move. "That then be tail h...fore the Houle an Accou;:t of the intended Applicati la of the sure of 20,0601. formed on esii elates for expanacei car the Commavaiewers for d•rtalwrq anal di `t-101'01e 0 , 11 MEWS t 4 the Na”, fur tl.e Yeas 1805 anal t: geher wit:a all Documents, Corrtapoutlence, iftc. that wag ger.. to thine a light um tie sane:' On the question being put, Lord CAS FLEREAGH said, he had no objec tion whatever to the produaion of a:1 such ac _ counts as might tend to satisfy the Hon. Gentleman on this suhjeei ; all he rose for at present was, to make a very few ob-ervations on the manner the Hon. Gentleman had adopted in introducing his motion. The lion. Gentleman had said, the Naval Commissioners were to receive an remuneration for their labours tiil they had closed them; whereas, the Commissioners in the other case were to be re munerated almost before they had begun their la bours. lie wished the House not to suppose the late Goverrone:it was desirous to remunerate any persons before they Lad begun their labours ; but they were tensible, persons so employed must be re munerated, and roust be alloned their espences ; and, as such, they were desirous of laying before the [louse, as soon as possible, such sums as they were of epinion would be necessary for those pur poses. The Executive Government having set on foot this Commission, li id deemed it their duty to provide for all the exte.nces attending it, and as soon as they had done so, to ley the same before the House, for their approbation, or otherwise, and not with ary intention of rtmnnerating the Commis sioners before hand, as the lion. Gentleman had seemed to inf.r by his arguments. Mr. WHLFBREAD .aid, he dial not know whe ther it were usual with the Executive Government to pay before-hand, but he thought the stint pro vided was by far too great, without some mote sa t ilatory &tails than appeared before the House at pre se at. Mr. HUSK IS9ON said, he had no doubt but the accounts would (hew very clearly how ninth a.f this money had been expended, and for what. They were liable to be scrutinised by the proper rr-• sons sow in office, and of course they would take care every thing should he fair ; they would be ha- Me to the investigation of the Paymaster, and after wards bi the Auditor of Accou.sts, as the Estimates Lad only been voted and nut esiaended ; so that if there were any of thrum voted remaining, it would be transferred in the usual way from those g,+ing ..ut of often, to these who succeeded them. The principal article was the 5,0001., out of which he be lieved were to be paid the rent of a house, sal( Lies of Secretary, Clerk., ik e . Mr S. BOURNE said, the Secretary's salary was KW:. a year, and was paid nut of the 50001. Mr. Vt HLTBREAD said, the first Secretary's salary was 8001. bet another had been appointed, esti was paid only 5001. Mr. WILBERFORCE. said, he applauded at all times a jealousy in Men.beic of that U. use, in every thing relatirg tothe expenditore of the public money ; hut &••.m the high (minion he entertained of the well known economy of the Noble Lord, lately at the bead of the Admiralty D.per talent, he was inclined to think the Estimate seas not greater than the pro bability of the espenees would require. Every one knew the Noble Lord had h.•oself given a striking instance of inde;sende ice and liberality, by his de claration when he tame into office, that he would never receive the emoluments attached to doing the duties of it. Mr. Will 1 - "BREA,D said, he by no means wished to take from the independence of the Noble Lord, but he beiieved it was an example which would not be much admired, r f doing the duties of office, without receiving those emoluments fairly and just ly attached to it. The question was then put, and the Motion agreed to. Mr. BASTARD moved, . For an Account of MI the ex; erieee of the Commie. oilmen of the Ma... from the tune of their appointment to the end el' the year 19413."..trtiered. A Message from the Lords informed the House. that their Lordships had agreed to the Greenland Whale Fishery Bill, the Royal Martine Mutiny Pill, the Irish Duties Bill, and the Foreign Soldiers' Bill, without any Amer dments. li\. INDIA CARRYINGS TRADE. Mr. Alderman PRINSEP rose to give notice, and was proceeding to introduce it by some previous in troduftory matte', when 'I he SPEAKER reminded him, that it was the raeice of the House, in giving a notice, for Hull. Members to confine themselves to the notice only. Mr. Alderman PitINAEP then said—" I give Sit, that I saatl, early in the next Session, (e lamer) move for a Committee to enquire into ' ZltF Carrying Trade of India.'" Mr. C. W. 11'1 . 1iNK, in pursuance of the notice had given, moved tam to to a am, to ampri an Act of last Scs. ''. l llo l h, los an , p,intiot, C0.,..•.•4••••19.14, to o.gmrc Into Abwes in JAM...anon a:4 Ltatmg Iv Streets pi C.ty of Dub:.n." Warted: Mr. GILES moved a.. eit•stract 0 r.c R eta- n rawer to the P. iv , c,„„„, 11 , I.) the lospectos4...n.-ral of His fo,ces, o f the sup. Ply of \f to, in the different Counties, u..Aer ttw Tlegeocr• sod the Pr.,,,ortium of the several Poruoto ILI saell Cout:ty."..- 10100. ed.. ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Repro.' of the Committee of Supply on the Ordnance Esti mates. The resolutions were read ; and on the question that they ho read a wcond time, General TAttLEToN rose and said. that on this important point, which included upward. of two millions of money, he would beg the attention of the House to a few observations he wished to make on it. Before he proceeded, however, to the imme diate question of the Estimates, he wished to make • few preliminary remarks on the situation which the country was, at present, placed in, with respell to its military system. We were now at a com plete stand still ; and however the Parisi Bill had been ridiculed by the Right Hon. Gent. opposite (Mr. Windham), as well as another Hon. Gent. not now in his place (Mr. Sheridan), vet by the means which had lately been resorted to, it had b, en, by these Right Pon. Gentlemen, rendered lest el feCtive than a had ever been before, for hi the last week it had produced only .53.; and yet, in this ad vanced period of the Session, nothing was brought forward to be used in aid of it, or to be substituted in its stead. That numerous, high-spirited, and respeiaable body of men, the volunteers, Lad also been frequently a subjea of ridicule with the Right Honourable Gendeman opposite (Mr. Windham), who had treated them as-an ineffeaive body, which injured the recruiting for the general service ; yet, at this very moment, when all men altos that our situation is every day growing more critical, and that every possible means of &Mace ought mime diate'y to be exerted and resorted in, the Itig:it 1-lon. Secretary has now been long in Ince, and bout not thought proper to give us any thing is the shape either of his plan or system, or e.ti inset Ile pleases to call it, nor to intiam us whether th • Vo lunteers are to remain as they Art', to be totally .is banded, or what is to be made of, or done with them. As to his own part, he hail seen thirty y ass of active service, and had, in tha. time, been often employed, and should have been note so, lie be lieved, had it not been for the very violent attach n.ent he had formed and shewn for certain Hon Gentlemen whom he now saw opposite to him (a /drab), and the present m: de of raising a militai y loser, which seemed to be the favourite of the Right Hon. Gentlemen, was the most ezttaorchisary he had ever witnessed, or had ever read of in tie course of his military studies. Anoth, r Right Hon. Genii:man had taken from a Friend of 1 is a naval cloak, with which, however, he could not suffi ciently warm himself, in this cold weather, to enable him to come down to the House to move for the repeal of that Parish Bill, after having so I..ng given notice of his intention so to do. Wimn moat Right Hon. Gentleman was in a ftwerer administration, he had told him (General Earletnii), with great emphasis, just after he arrived from abroad, " that tke French wet e always three weeks before ITS, and we three weeks behind the French." The mode adopted by the Iti;tht Hon. Gen Zeman at present, seemed as if our distance behind them was to be increased. As to the Ordnance Estimates now on the table, they are nothing more than those of the fur nrer Board of Ordnance. 111 cl were formed by a Nobleman whose talents had beers long exerted in the service of his country. and akin, had he hc,n continued in his office, world have then!' they were not exerte.! in vain. He meant no offence to the present Master-General of that Deparment ; for whose chara,fter he hod the highest respell, but it was not to be wondered at, that so g od a plan should emanate horn the abilities of a Npblernan so zealous in his country's cause, as the late Head .of the Ordnance Department ( Lord Gnathani), who was the son and the hrother of two of the greatest men this country ever produced. The General then adverted to the Brile of 'Era- Niger. and said, that a tyrant (Bonaparte) speak ing of that aslion, had called it an anion imprudently entered upon." if he thought it imprudent in. the beginning, there can be no doubt but he will change his mode of attack ; he will engage us no more in that way, and we shall, henceforwards, have to meet the war with a new face. We must now look to the flotilla of France. which is to he found in every port, from the Texel to Genoa. Bonaparte, he said, had threatened to invade us in May, and it was a matter of great mo ment, that our great military depot, containing all our cannon, stores, and the only laboratory we have, should not remain at Woolwich. All our East and West-India, and Irish stores, should remain there, but none else. He had heard of a great military eh pet, at Wedonbeck, but he would advise that that at Woolwich should be transferred to Leicester, or some other place in the centre of the kingdom, not sou t h of Northampton. He begged to remind the House, that the summer season was frequently sub jea to calms for many days together; and if a French army were to land, Woolwich would be too near the coast, and it was known with what celerity the French armita matched; and how import:a:A the principal de#:et of a country was, might he ga thered from the Treaty of Presburg. It a central de of were formed, was it to be supposed the Army, Militia, or Volhn:eers, would tight worse on that ac count? ho far from it, he was cr.:winced, that if even London were ever taken, an army might he found to regain our losses; and it would have a far greater chance of doing so, if the .hrot were situated as he had ;scented out. He then made a general re cap itulation of the several points of his a rg um ent — said, we we wereto contend for our honour, Constitu tion, haws, religion, and every thing that was most near and dear to us. lie would not trouble the House further, than to advise Has Majesty's Minis ters to ac with the greatest caution, and would conclude, he said, with the words of Mr. Burke— .. 1 hi.t r.thct he de.pii , eil for too anxious an arprthelision; this ruitscil by ton confident a security." Mr. CALCIt said, the Han. General. in what he bad said on the Estimates, now under con sideration. had only told the House, what was known to every Clerk in the office, via. that the Estimates were nearly the same as those of the late Board. lie had himself acknowledged thit, in the Committee or Supply. he reason was clear and concise. The present Master-General came to the simation at a very critical period. He had to take a survey of an extensive line of coast; and, in doing so, he found many great works undertaken, on which .- r,.. ths mono) already expended wettlA be entitel,. thrown away, unless they wera finished. Tl.eri was one article only which the Board h td deter• mined on, and that was the slim of 12.0001. 1 ,1 the laboratory ; they understood. that in general f 23,0001. a year was the expenditure on that head. and thought it best boldly to strike that bum a. once. As to the removal of the depot at Woolwich. that was a military question he w.ts not competent to speak to. It would, however, he downed rot be duly considered by those who were cormse tent ; but the Honourable General seen el to have to:- gotten, that there was a very large central depot already fixed na by the lave administration. fleneral TARLE FON explained, that he, in stead of censuring, had praised the condua of the present Board of Ordnance. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, though he thought it prisper, in the House, to bear the present Fstirriate in their view, yet he was ready to admit, that pro bably there might not have Leen sufficient time for the present Ministers to be prepared with the general plan they intendi•d to submit for the defence of the country ; for which reason, he would not, at this time, press them to what max he deemed a premature disclosure. It would not, however, he conceived, be an untimely interference with their system, if he requested information from them upon some few points, which he considered to be of very great importance. The first question, therefore, which he meant to put, was, whether it was their intention to persevere in the present system of coast defence, which he Vas happy to know was already in such forwardness, that it would, if continued, be . _ • completed before the end of the Summer? He ad mitted, that neither lie, nor those with whom he a Red, had any right to complain of the present Kstimate, which went upon the same scale as that which t. ey themselves submitted in the former year ; but he had to observe, that it did not include the expense of the military works ereding for the de fence of the Eastern District. The reason why the estimate of these works was not presented before was, that, at she time when his Right Hon. Friend, now no more (Mr. Pitt), returned' from Bath, the plan had . not received the formal approbation of His Majesty. It was the intention of the Right Hon. Gent. to ‘4Olll he before alluded, to have adopted a general sytem of defence, for the Western, similar to that which was resorted to for the Eatern coast, to have extended the same defensive plan of the coast to Ireland, and to have prepared another for the in ternal defence of the latter country, without which it could not be considered in a state of absolute se curity. This was meant to have been brought for ward in the present Session, and the present Minis ters would find the details of the plan, fully matured, in the proper office. He strongly recommended to those now in office, to pay the fullest attention to .that system; and though it might be the wish of the Noble Lord to keep down the public expences as far as was consistett with tyre safety and Interest of the country, yet he was convinced that the enlarged mind of that Nobleman would not suffer notions of economy to interfere with a measure of permanent defence, at all times, of that part of the coast which lay almost in cornea with the coast and military preparations of the enemy. He could not fail of also being sensible of the necessity of patting not only the accessible parts of the coast out of the reach of any hostile surprise or attack, but likewise placing Ireland in such a state of defence, that an invading army, even if landed, might not traverse the whole of it from one extremity to the other, without meeting ssith clung artificial obstructions. He concurred in WhAt had hien said by his lion. Friend (General T.,. Aeon), that it was not prudent to amiss all our stoles in a single Zoo/. where they might not be tort of the reach of accident. By the plan of the late Minister:, the weeks now building at Wedor beck %sorb not meant for a general depot, but to distribute also a proportional quantity of them at- Woolwich, Citatham, and Plymouth. Ile then re 'flooded the House, that when a question was, on a former occasion, put, respecting the in tention of Ministers with regard to the De fence ASR, the Right Honomabie Gentleman (Mr. Windham) did not distinctly state whether it were the present determination of Ministers that it should he repealed or not, and he did not now wish to press them to any thing like a premature reso lution ; as he thought it a lobjed of such great im portance, that he was desirous that titer should consider very deliberately on it. He was anxious however, to suggest to them, that however they might determine with regard to the Act it self, they would thus catty give the public an as surance, that even in case of the measure being re pealed, the counties which had not raised the num ber of men required, shosld not be exempted Irons the penalties attached to their negleel ; for nothing could be a greater injustice to the counties that had done their duty, than that those which had not done so, should be released from the penalties. That ar m-sore was the more necessary at present, because, should the penalties be hereafter enfoice.l, the state 'of suspense in which they were Row left, would place them at a greater disadvantage, when they came to be demanded. It should also be considered, that whatever malignity might have represented against that law, it even at present doclosed a Brest system of defence, in spite of all opposition ; and the counties now deficient, would even yet have an opportunity of getting rid of three-fourths of the penalties, if they furnished the men, before they were raised by the Officers of the battalions. Those who felt security in that measure of defence, must feel no small alarm at the extraordinary long consultations in shish the present War Minister was sn.rge,i ; consultations spun out beyond any thing that was ever before heard of. He again repeated. that it was not his intention to press for a premature disclosure of any new plan; hut felt the necessi y of explanation, with regard to the penalties. Mr. WINDHAM replied, that the Gentleman opposite him, on a former occasion, rxrrcsted opinion that the new Ministers ought to have bees ready with their plan, in the space of three days after coming into office ; but they surely ought to have considered, and the Noble Lord in particelar should have repressed his impatience, by reflecting that the difficulties of the psesent teliaisters were chiefly occasioned by the measures adopted he their predecessors. The Noble Lord stated the .ir•pre hrmions of the country from the delay of the i.ew system, and seemed to compArethe state of our emit wry preparation, to that of a patient abandoned 'ay his physicials ; but former physittnns, wto hr-hkl t that patient to death's door, hid no right to reclaim aeeinst their succe.sors, for not restoring him ins. medietely. Such was the to 'son why ta^ Ministers wee so long in getting out of the (ilk-cities he_ qu rethed t? them. if he declined now t o answer the questions fast to him, it was not perhaps ac much because he had not made up hinimind upon then:, but because he did not think it proper that such questions :Inlaid be put to him. On a former °ces sion, he only stated, that the present Defence Ad world make no part of the new system, and he de nied that he had ever male any declarations which need alarm either the volunteers, or arty other de scription of persons. Mr. CANNLNG, finding himself alluded to, thought it right to explain, that what he said in a termer speech, was occasioned by a notice given on the first day of the Session by a Right Hon. M, m. her of the present Administration, of his intenti es to move for a repeal of the Defence AR, and when a delay for a short time was proposed, only five days could be obtained, though certainly mai -r site s melancholy circumstancio, as, in his /Mile, e t ,„ to have made a sensible imprt ashen: in any C e sar man, whatever may Ise his pulitital opinion. ( ei e e ing to Mr. Pitt's ilines-). This invite, in ,‘ t!.e d,„ plorable event which eo quickly follewele , haviug brought the present htinisters into posse .it w a s na tural (or the friends of the Defence AR nut to ex pea that so long a delay was to have intervened, before any thing was done with it. Neither he, nor those about him, had said that the system already adopted, was not !efficient for the defence and safety of fhe country ; hut as that was the main to pic of contention between both sides of the Houste o le o s was reason to expect some speedy stahstittite from the Right lion. Gentleman, who ass ever so aCtive in decrying the system of his predecessors,. and made such promises of the wonders he could himself effea, if he had an opportunity. One might I reasonably have eepetted, from an Administration which boasted of itself as comprising all the Winne virtues, and . charaaer of the country—which was vaunted of, as combining every thing that was. great, nohle, grand, sublime, and magnificent ; which included the Right Hon. Gentleman oppo site him (Mr. Winditam,) who had long before prepesed in the House his cheesy of defence ; that sues Ministers would not hare been so long its making up their minds upon the subjea. It was true, that some people might not think it wise to agitate that which was deemed to be already in a state of security ; but when the Home recollected the frequent speeches of that Right Honourable Gentthtrian, against a varied sys tem of volunteers, militia and regulars, and his wishes to consolidate them all into one uniform unva tied desmietion, the advocates of a varied military force had groun3s of apprehension for Ilse stabili:e of the firmer system. In the speeches he alluded to, he would not say that the Right Honourable Gentleman spoke with contempt or slight of the vo lunteers in their individual and personal capecity, hut having reprobated the system itself, as radically defective and bed in principle, these volunteers had reason to fear, that sir.ce be was now Minister, he would not suffer them to etand any longer. Besides all from this, his declaration that the Defence Ar' would make no rent of hie new plan, the action that system must now naturally be parelize2. and no good ellhet ceuld be produced by it, in 111 r iniereal ef the WSW measure being ptoprscd; o that the Right !riot:. Genth man, ir.s:ead of furnish- ing x substittate which should do all he promise:. had actually Liirr:nished the existing military tr• sources of the coutury. The :anxiety also now lei: in the cou.itty, must tie augmented by the declara tion made on the other side, that the House was re to look to the present Administration collec ively, hut to the responsibility of each individual /Waists!. in his particular department. For his own part, lie would not consent to take the subject in that light. He had himself a great respect for, sad great hopes of public hens fit from the present ad ministration, particularly as it WAS under the ewe :ante r f one (Lord Grenville) whom he knew is possess .5 great, powerful, and prealinninant spite; but then lie respetted them only in the aggregate. as he thought situations were entrpsted to some of them, for which they were not qualified. lie lad a high retpeet for the talents and capacity of the Right Honout able Gentleman to whom he so often alladed, but he believed 99 out of COO in the coun try would go along with him in disapproving d him as a War Minister. A Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Fox) in answer to a question with regard to his intentions on a former night, referred to his past condua for an answer; and if that were the principle of all the present Ministers, he was the more confirmed in his disapprobation of the Fr:- sent War Minister, when he looked to his past core dui, and found him so often arguing against snres, to which, when in office before, he, Ice ,ti, pears, was himself a party. Mr. WINIJHAM denied his having m a de ant declarations this night imptund to him, or that bt was a party to all the measures adopted, when le was before in ofsce ; as to the military system lac adopted, he arraigned it when it was proposed. wow that it was established, he found himaea larreased with it. 'tr. WHITBREAD gave the Hon. Gentler who opened the Debate credit for a deternerrl and manly opposition to His Majesty's mien .ue niters ; but in other persons be thought he 7 , : - eeived a disposition to en,nare them ; for toe Net' e Lord who spoke lately, set out with saying, eh" would be wrong to press them for any explinstici of their plan, and afterwards entered into a discos. sion oft • topics that were most likely to prey I.' them. l'histigli he was no more res7.oesifte ter t l4 measures ash* menu, than for those of tie T 1 mer Miaisters, he had no besiteßun in asecruli that they comprised as much talents, capacity. a 7 importence, as belonged to any Ad • dctratios this country for several years past. 'llse Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) who was IF habit of comparing the qualifications of oe.! ministration, with those who were their emu. tors, now singularly declared, that he resee.e.e • ° present collectively, but • not individuaNy ; hey that he did not like the pares as they wetc` present. He insisted that Mr. % 1- made made the deeharations attributed to him. a• ' that Rt. Hots. Ger.t. highly disapproved of systerrast defence, yet every rational seasn'-' co no sel ca 01 IN fi RI CI tl I 1