The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1822-02-16 00:00:00

d ef ectod ports a his speech : areording to a short. eos in,* view of the Noble lord's plea it appeared to he this : firm. that in general the great moving power of all WAR the power of mature; and secondly, that there was on sort of co mpensate het wren the effects of the onsets usually placed In the bawls of man antl those which we look to from Pro vidence: with the exception of a positive reliance on ; t oe Ist. ter, the Noble Lard had little to propowe—(A loogh)--exeept to Wit off Ir.& bestial front malt. The Other p ar ts o f o w Nate Lord's plan be would addreos himself to in its order; bet before he did aa, he nimbi °berry. '0 one we. two et his principles, qn which. as the Noble Lord surmised, they were directly as issue. The Noble Lord had referred to what he (Me. Iketeroliam) had tore. in 1917. At that time lie hod toolownered to sheer Moo there were. a great number of ceilivitluals who were In a state of misery opproachine to rlanalioe, and the Noble Lord cougrritnhaderi the Honsr on what be called his. (t r. lloseghant's) incomeistency; bat I oho' he lied titers talked of was the misery colonic in the monefaciorme district... 13n1 did he deny that there was treat ditereita now among the agrieultural classes, be fogse there won a less degree of misery in the mnnufactoring slistricts than there was in lel7 The Noble Lord paid there wes as incorrectness in hit (Mr. Broughane.) detail.. of the malt dale, hut in hot there was no seboomtive difference between ihrm ; the Noble Lord took the year 1941, and he had taken the average of the hot fire yearn : but what he had cooteaded for was, that there was not the increase in oaasnroptiou .hat ought to hr in proportion to the in crease of the pepulatme (that i., as fire to seven ) , but *sly that we tow enesume.l wha we dot thirty years hark. The Sold* • Lord said, that, t though mall had not been. emenotted, whoiturrs fur it have; but his (Mr. B.'s) argument was toot that:be donee inferred a diminetiost in the reseuree• of the camooMm; It only went to this, that the sax pro -gelded the inereme of comiumplion, ahich could afford the oety oebsimithel remedy for the dishes. of the termer. Among thew sulotittors, first, were the brickbats; but eseept the aim.. used lo making them, he was as a WU to t oo tle bow slat could afford any relief to the agriculturist. Thiti WI. also an triremes. in the eonnomption of soap; bat how that mold operate to the benefit of the farmer, be was just as little able in understand as the Noble Lord's brick bat armament. Thea teil had increased IN coosumption ; but of that nlon lie complaioed o -that instead of the old Bri • tish beverage from malt, they consumed another Out so whole some—one whirl, did not relieve the British fanner, whatever It might 110 for the agriculturists of Mita. At the best, it could only relieve one class—the importers of tea : the East ladis Company were Om only person* who posited by it, except, Indeed, the Chancellor of the Excheoper, who drew largely from i 1 ; hut it let; no profit on British capital ; it hrotight nut a mingle acre of British ground iato calovolion. Thus all the Noble Lord** statement of whattimies left Nis (Mr. Brougham's) argument jut where it was lettere. Thus led hint to say a few words on the re lative proportioo of taxation and income. The Nobles Lord said he should only lay his data, mid therefore he (Mr. Brougham) wan in donbewhether in what he bad afterwards said he had meant to do more thin stale hi. opinion. He lid it d o er, th a t 51, whole *Mount a taxes which the far. weer ;veld was enc.'s venth of his rent. He (Mr. Brougham) had heard that calettlallars were more (amassl than poets, hat of all the nimbleness and &ale, ity of any ready reckuuer, this result et the Noble Lord beat them all. This was a question Ilse most difficult io het, it was the one great ouestioe on whirls all men doobted, on which the must ',cute could hardly see an inch before them ; yet the Noble Lord, with a dexterity which surprised him every night more and more, leapt over all Milo-whirs, and arrived at this con. elusion, that if unity were taken sad divided by seven (of all conceivable uttmlwro, that would be the exact proportion of fax paid by the farmer. And this was the ealculatiou which the Noble 4ord gave them as an answer to his (Mr. Brougbiss'o)reasaning on general priociples ; this, of all the Nettie Lord's feint., covered him with—be could not say onfooion, hut with adm•rat ion. This was made the answer to the whole of his (Mr. Brooglianie) arguments; the pivot end comer-stone Wen, that there Weekd he no reduetiou of t ; no relief to a suffering people ; but the Noble 11..0 .d had ll,roon overboard all the oloervatioos which Ise (Mr, Brougham) had made with respect to the effects of taxe. whirl' CRTe not boo the Treasury. Atwitter point on whoh the Noble Lord bad out said a word nos, the effect of taxes its raising the price of labour; • of that peeetrallog—that pervading quality which, whets a tax was laid on any necessary of life, caused it to enter into labour inereatioto the price to the consumer, di miniohieg the profits of the m inuferturer or grower. and of coarse diminishing toe profit *hob as rent came So the landlord, the great grower. The Noble Lord had exhorted the House to draw a line Of demarcation between his (Mr. Breughae.) system and that of his Majesty. Ministers; and, above all, to trust to the powers of fructification— tesurrectlon—(A laogh)—aqd the true principles of po litical economy; though there was not one senteoce of the Noble lord's speech that was not tither a satire upon, or ■ deviation from those priecipks. He (Mr. Brougham) hail brought forward no system ; he bad celled upon the House Its correct its public system ; to diminish the bordello of the people substantially, not fictitiously, fur the potpie of a clap-trap in that House, but for effectual relit f. The line of demarkation less talked of, as if they bad boasted of a nostrtuo on his side of the House, skew in fact the empiric. were oo the other benches. The Noble Lord said that if the whole mass of taxes were swept away, never to rite against us in any shape, yet that no relief would be afforded thereby to the suffering people adorer realms—that relief which the people had a right to expect from their Re presentatives as a master ofj:astiee, they were Sot to expect. He mewl the relief (runs all !Nodes. which were not abso lutely necessary, and this eberbee the people were in distress or not. The House had no right t.. keep up a single roan, to build a ship, or bold an office, • hirh she safety of the state and the CILINICOCe of the country did not render absolutely mernery; with. called upon the House to act upon this strait priuriple, as well when the country was at rue, as now that it was hamming under cruel suffering. He could regard with au feeling% of gratitude the little less than Moult up* the country, the polity reduction of ooe sbiltiwg a bushel ow molt. The Noble Lord had Dow two mullions of revenue above the expenditure, reduced this year to about 1,300,0001. this, added to the Sinking Fund, made the leng-looked far Inc millions and a qaarter. The Noble Lord glorified him self ow this as the proxy of the Chauctilur of the Emetic leer. and congratulated the Huuse on having the pleasing task of inquirirg what they 'Weld do with Ibis long-ex. peeled &wilder. He (Mr. Branham) doubted whether it was any thing like so much; but allow that it were, what did be my ? relieve the country. But what said the Noble Lewd ?es." Don't remit, say taxes; keep it to look as, and woke sentence, ppos its that House; pay off every year so much debt, and raise the price of the 3 per cents., for Eat land's safety consists in that; but above all this, keep (sulk with the public creditor," and keep faith with the public cre ditor, he (Mr. B.) also said ; and be requested to koow by fi'y slat right the Noble Lord said that he held those prier*. plea which the Noble Lordstignaatised as thalionottrable to the English natmu. Was it becaure he had said that sot a whisper to sully public credit should cross a man's lips, ex. rept ashler the posture of an overwhelming sod isureasurt. neersoity, and if t h ese distresses eontinned, such a crisis tonight arrive ? Its following the system of the Noble Lord, th e n oas t were going headlong and accelerating that diesded 7, 3 0. He exhorted th e H ouse t o l eave th a t ar ith met i ca l Huston (the Shilling Fund), which had beets of late rompleoly exposed, that no tnan capable of comet too fingers but could ore Moon's it. Let taxes IN' reduced, let economy be practised in every depart ment o f she State, and he hoped and trusted the day ouold arrive in which we should forget that we h a d "er , toed tha wor d neeess i ty . Th e N o bl e L or d b a d 'knot to one whom many in that House considered as a reurrable 'lethality—of one who had ruled the financial ad. , niortration of the count., with obsolete sway; he (Mr. Brougham) did nut marvel that his memory should be dwelt '' by many with pleasing recollections; but the moment ' lll Ought to have been thought on by them was when they _", e wepulling th e s t ases out o f hi s favourate edi fi ce ; since 'wthey had gone on step by step, till of Mr Pitt'. Sinkiug f."" they had left a o thi n g hot the n ame. He regar d e d M r . respect as great •••• 1•111.1latiVIII,‘• .oishoter ; Is •nuid al w a la s h ave goosed at some of A M i te ' acts, the vile ex etil"ll with *kWh some of the underlings employed in ° . ffire w ith him Ind tarid the character of the basest "4"'illistratioo. His usrue ' should base bee. m the 'V" Wads ea os the lips of Iliehdefe, wag" llla 1 1101818111111 inroad In. the Sinking Feed was made in 1813 tm 85e present Chancellor of the Exchequer; we shush iket have bad • Stoking Fund of at least twestroise ml . lions, instead of fest year, according to the Chmes i ellor of the Exchequer: awn account, 18110,0001.; andt this year, by as unexpected increase of the Racist Remise in laded or Scotland, it amounts to between 2 and $ millions. To say, therefore, that the Members on that side of the House would isms& the Stettin Food, was the most monstrous of all delusions, poetical or arithmetical, in which the Noble Lord bad dealt that meow. He (Mr. Brougham) believed that the only diffusers between Mr. Pitee plao and Sir Robert Walpole's was, ilet in the pan of Dr. Price. which Sir Pitt mewed, the operates was by compound interest; and now, as he (Mr. Brougham) un d o , stied, that we to be swept away„ soil the principle of eimple interest recurred lo Legato. The Noble Lord had passed over the retreuehments so liehily, that lie world defy any man to say if the civil list, or penises, or office., were to Ise lunched, unless, indeed, they cause under the tiny he of 150,000.'. fur superannuations. As an ex. ample of the Mincer in which the Noble Lord bad been understood, he would tell the House what had just oc curred. A Right Hon. !friend of .his was sitting sear him (Mr. Brorighem,, when the Noble Lord was concluding lit. speech, end a-keil him, " But what has become of all the retrenchments? he surely nest allude to rail reductions presently." He (Mr. Brougham) then told his Hon. Fried that the Noble Lord had passed that item; to which he re. plied, .. It was Impo •eibie," smiling good beinneredly at his • ( Mr. Brougloim's) it:reprehension and ignorance of fiaance. 1 'lt was in that litik corner that all the retrerichamats were to be found: It war nut what was to he got by abolishing omelet.' pliket, but 'lt was telling the suffering people of tliiii cownley . that was all that was to be obtained, not only as sic allevistrun, but also fur the more sacred ire rest of the Conatiltitiop, by dined/Mug the enemies, the over whelming, the corrupting patronage of the Crowe—(Hear, hear )—The 10 per cent. deducted from salaries "duties was, be supposed. a sort of premium of insurance paid to the Chancellor of the Eschimorr, in order to get safely through the storm ; but the sacrifice of owe part would ant, he could apprise them, give any security for the Wise parts which resnamed. Thus was oujitat also, fur hecosW ima gine niany cases in which 10 pee cent. or eves 6 per era'. was too much to take from those who bad embarked their only capital—their youth and health in the service of the State, sod were now perhaps lingering nu pittances of 801. ur 1151. • year. Taking any thing from that, would make all the difference between living and being unable he lee, sod would be [wiling nut at comforts or luxuries. In some cases it was too little. lb talk of such a reduction from the great places occupied by the Gentlemen on the Benches opposite, ass so utter ly incommensurate with the occasion that eves if more the 10 per cent. were not taken, it would be little better than a mockery. Many of the great public offers would, he was persuaded, be filled for the parreage only (for of that there weld always be some). The Great Officers of the Household, which adorned by their splendour, but were nu otherwise props of she State, and would they adorn sad prep it the less for being volunteers ? Would it detract from their strength, if instead eff coming ism office on the motives of a clerk, they were to come in on higher principle? Was there any man so devoted to peers niary emolument—so incapable of all argument but pounds, shilling., and pence, as to believe that these places, instead of being worse would be better tilled if there were not a farthing of salary attached? It- was sot necessary, be thought, that the salary should no more than pay the ofleial exprines, and might be permanently reduced une.balf. He spoke not of places requiring soy peculiar education or cognac of *turfy; for at the risk of jeers, to which 6 .hoes, as a professional man, he should be exposed, for wht's' to except the profession to whale he belong- ert, he haul no hesitation he avowing his epees, that i• all case judicial appeonnents were not within the scope of his argonsents. When • man was made • Judge he wse , • generally taken from a lucrative practice al the bas; and he bad knows Judges who, on their appointment to theileaeb, bad abesdisaed half their income; this, therefore, wee a breach felock ovoid oot to be iorelied.—(Hear, berrojr—The Noble Liscdperepased to borrow fuer tellies from llso Bank, ed give three pee end. Exchequer hills; but the way the muses was to be employed the Noble Lord had not explain ed with his usual perspicuity. His nadersteding (and be spoke tinder the correction of the Noble Lord), was, that it was in be applied to a twofold purpose; part to lowest is stock, to increase the price of stock, to run it •p by another pulley, and what was nut so used was to be in aid of the poor's rates. The Noble Lord had complained of she effete to be dreaded from the torrents of gold settee is from the Contient in such force, the if nothing was prepared to stay It 810 Min could say what ravages it would make. He (Mr. Brougham) apprehended, that if not hoarded it would get into circulation—the exchange would be affected—Hie ebb would follow the doe—nod the level would he restored with out any alteration or the laws of nat ure. The effece could be but momentary; the operation of commerce affecting she exchange at oat-e restored it. There was se want of gold at present; the complaint was that there was not eirculatiog medium in the reentry; but if whole barrels of gold •ere peered out from the Rank it would not remelts, but would go out of circulation, reeving the circulates medium as it wee. As bag as paper was convertible into gold, all the fiaancial expedients or arrangements would uot avail . to keep it •p to any artificial height. The other part of the plan was still worse ; one was only nagatirry, but the other was mieehievous. To hear the Noble Lard lath of lending every parish as nee money as they require in aid of the poor rates, as • measure likely to produce any thing to relieve Ilse diereses of 'grinders., was martellous to hint, albeit not nursed to the wonders coming bum teat quarter.—(Hear, hear, hear.)--To hear him deliver this 'estrum to the country Gentlemen was almost inirscules. The House sorely would not require any argument upon it. Did not every man see at • glance, that if the rates were to be paid this year by a loan from Gevertiment, the rate p4yrr must pay double next year, together with the expenses of management, all whir+, iu the end, must full some Iron The pie which was now spouted on all sides, and aban doned by the inventrw himself—he meant the plan of lend ing Eschewer bills to the celery gentlemen—was nut half so absurd and ridicaloas. This money was out to be in the careful management of themselves, but under the wasteful direction of yearly ove . But this was not all ; part of the money was in hr laid not in certain public works under Ilse same disinterested and careful management. " What! public works !—What ! more et aaaaaa nee!" He had doubted the evidence of' his cars. 'fee plan could only lie likened to that for emptying the poor by digging holes one day and filling them up the next. If a public work were wanted that weld be beneficial,and that would repay its own expense, it should be eliineond till then it ought not to he attempted; but if the Noble Lord were to stimulate their de sires, it would create as great parochisl extravagance as the Ipublic estravagance under which we had so long la'orured. He could ani s , in stronger language the that used by the Noble Lord, implore the House to open their eyes, to look to the l management of theisown eanCeriss; continuing their con fidence in has Majesty. Miniatere—for, Grid fin bid that • thought should be entertained of any one coveting their places say genre now than Iwo . ago, when he had warn. .41 the (louse they were placing the nation in peril by passing the Queen's Bill; so now he said, "Think nut of any change; let the present men continue if elwy possess the confidence of Parliament, tint face them to deserve it. Save yourselves as well as your eriontry, and above all save that public credit to which she hitilite Lord and those who act wish him, stud riot 1 or may friends ' are the real foci." l'he Hon. Member continued, that iiGelltleinerit were bet cos intent mid reganlful of their own interest, they might teach the 3liiii4ter how to keep hie place (be would keep it), eel he would come dower with • repeal of taxes, if they forced him to it. They soil they only could, through the present Minister::, save their rolintry. Empiric. had claim ed therm. At owe time Napoleon wanted their gold, the Jacobins or Radicals were eudasgeriug the Creator nem ; but let them open their eyes, mod they would see that them impostors derived their only authority from alarm. and their sole specric was edifies evacuation. He begged the House to resider well the events of the last thirty years, sod implored them not to antler his preset prayer le tie urged in vain.—(Hear, hear ) Mr. UUSKISSON raid, be was entwine how impolitic it wan is him to rise *Re the Hon. sod Learned Geutleme ; 111M‘111 4f public dolt NW him lit the iodiseretion, li gz it b • iirni there sew was a speech deb veroid in P ar . , .. elmitniniaje mere upwind priudylea sod istiSosilded i 4 e lion the!' of the Hs°. sod Learned C ar all enian , orue mom tales/Wed to mislead the public, 11414 i to tawdry Noose into some 111-digested Sessile. During t h e , distress of the nsantiferturitig and commercial deafest Is 1817, it was predicted that comment 'retold pryer• revive, and that capital would seek employ elserrhere.l Public credit was at that period every day decreasing, psi. t vale credit wan wholly out of the wit-slime; for be wakeint afraid now to awed, that in 1818, except by the politic secu. reties, or by hills of exchange at very short dates, ilt was not possible to raise money within the rate of legal totems*. High 'Nimes A the velar of labour, and 1111 the rate of labour was advanced, profits must necessarily have dim,. Mated. The distress which was then felt •ser eltrned a syirit of *miry, which led to the discovery that realrielive or peg hibisury regulations, tended rather to injure Man to protect those interest,' they were de signed to brio fit ; and tilos disco very bad caw , : several Aids to be bruu;ht to for repealiug such injurious measures is many instances, and these, is fact, a great teal benefit to commerce had croon up out of its temporary depressiun. In like metier, it was to be b aped that agriculture would ultimately derive great per mascot benefit from the investiz thin of the principles by which its interests were affected, which the present pees. sore npuis those juicers!, had called forth. To res. son upon the eireiernetenems of the present period from the data of 1792 wee absurd. That year was followed by the breakim. out of wee, • which rehire the prices; 1795 was a year of had harvest, which leaded et.ll further to in mean than; 1797 was alas_• bad harslet, mid 1799 awl 1800 were years of sesiiity.Olsich of Connie 111%1161A a still greater elite of prima. Timer 'iA rcunistanceN. together with the Bank Restriction Act, which was passed to 1797, gave a stimuli., of enrollee:se:nem to agriculture, which, contliminte to operate moil the close of the war, bad caused it to bra carried to a much higher pitch than it had ever reached at say former period. Those causes had new ceased to operate, and •c, troodeut deelme in prices had necessarily sod naturally followed. lie did nut mean to argue, nor wall it at all assumed by Goverumeet, that an excessive or over production was, under all eirrumomares, .111 absolute and oaqualiged 1 oil ; but be moat conked that it oat neer,- eerily followed by ioconvenieuce and loss under the circum stances with which at present it was accompanied. He ad milted that he had supported the Corti Laws from the out. set, fearing that the enemy •from the slate of llse Contineut at that period might be eualded to cut off the country from an efficient supply; but he was free to confess that he now regretted having done so, as the tendeucy of those laws had been to produce, stud be was convineed they had ptorlated an over supply, by the excessive encou• ragement which they hail given to production at home, and by the importations which had, from the same cause, taken place from Ireland. During the long perioduf provenly to the agriculturists, which he had before mentiooml, from 1792, to the close of the war, their speculations had 'teen carried to such an ewes% that it was natural to expect that when prices fell, from the cessation of the temporary causes whittle led to that prosperity, • degree of distreiea sad depres sion would follow "itch as was now experienced. Bounties on exportation were, under the ancient and long-established system of this country, the means acted upon to open to the grower a channel of relief front his superabundant produce, 1111141 if tluat could not he again recurred to, some other memo, must he deviled to relieve the grower from the lota which mom otherwise accrue to him to years of ahem:lance from a produce exeeediug the demand far home consumption ; otherwise the want of a compensating price in his owe mar• het for h a crop, would operate to discourage cultivaiitni, sod the probable result would Ire, that in future years of bad imams and defective crop., the supply would fall shod of the necessities of our own population', and the demand fur home consumption must lao supplied from other quarters. He did pot mean at the preaent moment to give a decided opinion upon many of the suggestion" of the Honourable sod Learned Gentlemau, nor to g i fully into the citansiaatioo of those uew oyinious which he had broached--thuse aewly•dis covered doctulnes, and hitherto uuexplained principles of political economy which he haalieveloyml in bite lectors of three hours and a half ou a former eseuiwg, and in big speech of two butin on the present occasion ; but O'ere were some observations has acted by the Honourable and Leal ued Gen tleman, which be must bre the indtkence of the House while he proceeded to notice them. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman denied that there was any Wert-zee of coliseums). sieve, and spoke of the Increase. of revenue as a supposed in- . crease. The state of the 'country 'puke et mice tur the in crease of ronstimption• but when a gentleman pteased to dewy the return. from the Decor., 16'1111.11 showed • liege in crease in the revenue on those articles which !were iu moat general nee, there was no such thing as arguiteg with him. When the Honourable and Learned Gentleman began to open his new lord luminaue views on the subject of the circulation, he (Mr 11.) felt some regret that they had not haul the *drawee of his Wooing iu the (:om mittee out the Corrency, and feared at first that they had lost much valuable assistance; but he felt prereittly relieved . from his fears obese he leesed.hion attribute the evils against which they bad to contend to the Bank Restriction in 1797. He wondered the Hon. and Learned Gentlemau had kept his (berm , rirs in secret to so long • period after the Committee of 1919, which would have been the proper time to here pro detred them. Neither, however. in the discussion of the Report of that Committee, nor of the Bill which was founded omen it, in say of its sages, had he ever looted at those prig- Lip,e' which he now put fords as having been long ireaaored up in his own mind, *Monies be made a long speech upon the third readieg of that Bill, mid another upon the same sohject upon a subsequent occasion. is the anxiety to se. celerate the return to cash payments, too much bad been dune; the exertions that were made were more 111318 was called Air, and the revulsion vehicle they had produced was greater than it was necessary to sustain. Beery million of gold now taken out of the circulation and buried its land, was so much aggravation of the existing evil. In proportion as the aortae" treasures of the Haut and of private bankers were thrown into circulation, so touch would the country-be benefited. If the Rank hod elieckml its issues and reduced its discuontr, the effects upon prices must have been the same as the result which their. attempts to return to a cash circulation had produced. He therefore thought the Hun. mid Learned Gentleman had over-rated the effect of the al teration of the curreucy. The Hocaml Learned Geetlemen thought that taxation was the root of all the existing evil. That was a *object on which Nlinisters had been T.., y unfairly used. He denied that either Ise, or his Right Hon. Friends near him, as had been es.unted, had ever looked upon taxa. tion am an abstract hesellt, or dust they had ever viewed it otherwise than in the light of a positive evil. But however abater(' was such an opieion as that which had been imputed to them, it was hardly mole strange or wattling thau the doctrines on the same snlaket which were to be roused in the Honournble and Learned Gendeinsa's newfangled ardent of political economy. He would ask the Hon. Member for Portarlingtun (Mr. Ricardo) what he thought of the theory which be hail heard with astonishment proceed from the Ham. and Learned tau whinge, " that taxation traded to is crease prices, because it me:a aard the profits upon capital'" Another of the most extreordinary axioms advanced by dial Geutlemen 1 , 18111, " that the employment of large capitals in neenotectores wailed to raise prima, and that taxation tended to exclude smell copitala." It avail, however, by the large 1 capitals employer) that the improvements in manufactures 1 had been brought about ; it era by the large capitals That machinery had been introduced, and that the successive ion prevenient% in the machinery had been made, which had so lunch leaseeed the expense of productioin and consequently I lowered the picas of the articles. This, therefore, was age whet exaggerating' of the effect of taxation. The flaanciol le/nervations of the Hon. sod Learned Gentleman were not less estraordinary. In coutreatiiig the income and of expendi aml 1815, which lie character. .__e ea.uta ee a of the mummy, he had, in or- S ix n m re l am id ei Ike washTe bii l t a le l3" ( , der . .shear out his sreuiment, sw ' , pascal a man iii private lute, with an ineeme of 10,0001. • year, end an encumbrance of deb, with a charge for ineereatitmosittling to nearly the same son), that person w o uld be obliged to lay out neatly the - "bele of Isis income its retainestiiiing his credit; and that he a. stoical to be aeureect view of the condition of this country, . But if he looked et the state of the country in 1813, 1814, and 18Th, he was surprised how he could compare the cowherd of the affait• of a country struggling for its ex latence as aa independent nation, by the rules which • ••• 1 ! - . almuld govern the caaduct of a r ... -- If it were the polity of the country during the IIIE4MMIIIP supplies to meet the caress of the expenditure abort Um It semi., by the memo of loans, and that course were cantle Demi from necessity for a series of years, it was absurd to compare the relative mounts of the income anal repeat& tnre at such a period with the scale of a atiloequent period, when that necessity should have ceased to exist. The Hon. pad Learned Gentlemau looked spun the several establish. gismos of the count. y as beiug upon an unnecessary mole of expense. But if be looked to the scale of the present year, be would find it to be reduced below the scale which the -lions, 1101 of the Finance Committee—be wonid tint mentims .abem, boniest they were the instruments end dependents of. Govrromoot, gad therefore possessed neither reedit nor author. .city %rub Gentlemen on the other aide of the House—hut below that which the calculations of Me Hon. Member fee Essex (Mr. Western), whom he regretted not 'ethic in big place, had assigned as the limit fur a peace establishment. The expenditure for a period of peace, that Hon. Member had said, including the pmvisfun fur lb. interest of this deba, _it was hardly possible could be reduced below 5 0, 008 • 1 104 The expenditure for the present year it would he found was within that sum. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman thought that be had obtained a great triumph ever Fir Noble Friend, in the argument of the effects of micatitos oa the cousumption of mats, when he urged that notivisbetend. lot the population had increased, the consumption .was leas than in 171t1.—But what haul been staled by his Noble Friend perfectly accounted fur that fact, still he bad shown from the fluctuation 111 different yeses, tbst the consump tion dep, tided much more on the slate of the harvest than on the rale of tax own. 'flue mourns of the quantities of malt consumed in those years during which the tax 1111 d been taken off. compered with she overate of three rgeeding year., stud with the Femme since the tax was Increased, showed that the smallest consumptiun was it. Hume years alien the tax was lowest, end that the con sumption had i ed since the duty was raleed (Hear, hear.)—fle did not mean to argue that the duty wee the cause of an ie d consumption, but that there • were various other causes, distinct fium the taxation, to account for the decreise in this instance; among these might he mentioned the in ed influence of moral habits, for he presumed it would not be dewiest that habits of so briety hail much increased of late years among the people. The Honourable and learned Gentles/too had completely mistated, because he in fact had altogether misunderstood Ore argument of hie Noble F9eitil His Nula;e Frieird had said, that the tax on tea hail within the same period to which be referred been iticrensed eightfold; and vet the increase in the consumption of that, and other articles of general use, which had been subjected I. a nearly equal advanced duty, was fully adequate to the increase of the populatiou, and therefore he argued that the decrease in the consumption of malt was attributa ble to some other cause than the increased rate of taxation. In noticing that argument, the Hon. sod Learned Gentleman had asked in a terse of triumph what beneficial effect to the agriculture of this country was derived from the run:meagerness( and increase of the consumption of tea ? Here then Was this great and prufound political economist. this propagator of stew and rinexplood principles of the ircieeee—.(titar, bear)—who thought that the Chiron send 30,000.000 ors. dies to this country and took nothing from it le eeturn.—(llear, hear.)-11 the Honourable and Learned Geptlesnan kid been hareuging a mob—the rabble, for in 011thiee, that surrounded the hustings of Covent •garden, he Would hardly have dared to address such argumeets to three; be could not therefore but wonder how be could Wok of stating them in that House..—;Hear, hem., bear!) — The lion. and Learned Gentleman had travelled out of agri culture into one of the mineral productions of the country —iron. But if he had properly directed his inquiries upon that subject, lie would have found all excessive production io the ananufeeture of that article, and that the prices were equally depressed in proportion with those of agricultural produce. It wag the smile with other branch, s of manufacture ' and in the g I depression of prices of manufactured goods would he found one extrusive source of relief to the farmer. through the effect which it must have room the price of labour, tool the decrease of bin oupeaditure in those artieloillle" his own coosumption. There also be would find the arising front the employment of large capitals, by creased expense at which they enabled them to be produced. It should not have heen forgotten that cotton, 'foo l and other goods were manufactured here much cheaperiban many other country in the world; that the labourer was thereby enabled to get them cheaper mid in greater quantity, and therefore the great capitals offered to the agricul. turists of this country advantages which were not possessed by those of Ameu ica , Poland, or any ether nation from which eons was usually exported. He thought, therefore, that it was not true that laxative was the cause of high ;tricot. He next cause to the remedy for the evil, whirl. haul barn discovered is the abrogation of the Sinking Fond, in order to diminish the tasatiou. The tionuurside and Learned Gentleman hail gab., that but for the inroads upon thig fund, caused by the expensive measures of 1813, we should now have had a Sisukiug Fund of 21,000,000 t But he would ask hum to what mimeo must the taxa. time of the country have been increased, in order that it might now possess a kinking Fond to that amount?-- Learned as the 11011. slid Learned Gentleman was, or prohased to be, in the Maury or Mr. Pelt's measure, relating to Ma Stoking Fund, Ire woe totally mistaken in hie notions reaps-es ter the prioetple of that Food. The princtples of Mr. Pitt's Sinking Fund was this; that one per cent. on each loan should be set apart in reduce the stock created by such loan, sod when that one per cent. so set aparoshuithi have worked Itself up to the value of the whole loan, thon that the whole amount of that stuck should be struck off from the debt.— It was on: tiring when they bad a Sinking Fund to take it away from, and another es to the propriety of fermis,: it, if it bad existed. Besides, oliat other means had they of recruitiug their finances ia time of peace, or supporting their credit in time of war? He would retrench by all memo, as far as was vonsistent with wisdom, but he never could consent to Mare the national faith violated. They ruid:l not du away with the Siuking Fund without proclaim ine their sharer', and incurring the greatest danger; fur if they did rot endeavour to reduce the debt in time of peace, they must respect ruin and bankruptcy in time of war. He was glad to find the Learned Gentleman had qualified the atarmiug doctrine of lamely he had avowed the last night. And if under their present difficulties they were to yield to these doctrines, their difficulties would be increased tenfold. They would underosiue the fausidetiosis of all property, and produce inevitable destruction. Upon what tenure was any engagement held ? The right of inheritance—the claim any mart had to his outgoes—the power of transmitting pro perty by will—in fart, all the affairs and irsioactions of hie (tor these were trot the natural rights of man), were sup. ported and preurved by the public power. And that also was the protection of th e public creditor. With respect to the pruposOion of his Noble Friend as relating to parishes, he saw nothing new or extraordinary in it. Nothing more common than for perialies to borrow one year, and pay it nut of the rates of the next. Nor could be agree with the Learned Gentleman that great waste would ensue, far it was the iuterest of the parish to see that no waste did take place; and he by no wreathe despaired that it would be a great means of alleviating the public distress. He had delayed the House beyond the time he had intended; but he could not suffer his mind to be carried away by the gloomy view the Learned Gentleman had taken of the state of the country. If he bail been told that any country in the world was in a herbs.. and desperate coeulition, and that a violetton of public faith was Inevitable—if he saw in the same country all increasing revenue, •brindonce of ea. pital, extensive improvements carried on to an extent never before surpassed—if he saw moremor, the growth of pope. lotion more rapid than in any other country, he should say, o If these be the symptoms of rum, in God's name tell toe what are the means of increasing or preserving the sta bility of a country?" It was mockery then to call the coo. (tattoo or the country desperate. If after all the difficulties we bed undergone—all the sevrre trials we had endured, and all our struggles had been brought to a successful end happy terminstion, we were in a 11101T1t111 or despair to violate our engagements, by means of which (Is had been properly observed in the Speech from the Thome). we had heen ratted to the high station we fitted in the eyes of En. rope, he should implore those honourable men its online& 111/11 with whom he had the honour of acting, out to give their aid in It. destruction. lie would conjure them by the mem= !Ley bore to dial great name mkt& bud bans timalieml Out night ; in the name of Mr. Piles illustrious rival, who on that and that subject alone hid been waive* be would entreat them not to disgrace that •snuenes(- of tuitional splendour, but leave its demolition is other hoods. —Hear, bear ) Mr. BROUGHAIII explained He had been prevented'', indisposition from "lilting • part is Ike debate alluded to by the Melt Hon. Gentleman, and nut from inclination. Colonel DAVIES expressed hi• surprise at the apathy that teiiMed, afire the extraordinary speech of the Nohie Lord. • Could the House suppose that Ohs iniserahle bison proposed would satisfy the country! Did they imagine thrd could restore agriculture to its former emattive surely lot. He was therefore surprised at the indifference that seemed to exist, for the country Never would he satisfied until there was a considerable redaction of lettaLun. lie was decidedly of opinion that the applic oleo of the surplii• (called the Sinking Fund) to the exits-ones of the Sirie. far firm erecting public credit, would estalslish tt sdi a more firm bums that. aay measure they could prop use. Mr. HOME assured the Howie that he should endeavour to compress his ohm yahoos into is small • tamp's, as aible, but he could nut .lbw the extraordinary speech they had just beard to pass without some mouths. It appeared to him a strange mode of proreediug for • Member to come down to that House, and reply s• the speech of his 11011. and leaenfd Friend r. Bemighant), which had b.en deli. waved a week ago ; and by this means the Right Hob. Gino. demso had artfully endeavoured to withdraw the stleat tea of the (ionic from the real questio• before them. Had they had that night a debase tot the Corn Bill, be mild have understood the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, far two-thirds at least of his speech were more applicable to that shall to the riestiois before the Homo.. He was sue pitted to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman state that he cots. aidered taxatinu an evil in the abstract ; he should lie glad to know what he thought of it in practice! His Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham) had not said Ow he under. stood him) that taxation was the sole came of the mars me distress that pressed with such severity upon the agricoli oral interests, hot that la:tailor abridged the comforts of life, and that the reduction of them would afford cousiderable relief. Ne was opposed to a Sinking Fund, because he thought that if there weie a real surplus, it should be me plied in purchasing up part of the national d. bt, and not left in the bands of the Chancellor el the F-actie quer, to be squandered by him. He was exceedinly so' prised at the statement of the Noble Marquis. Esteem. tattoos bad been raised to the highest pitch, and 'heft they were met by a delusion. The House should place lettle coufideoce on the statements of the Noble Marquis on 'hose subjects. Ou the 7th Februmy, 1817, that sumo Noble Marquis bad come down to the House pretty much in the same manlier he had done tonight, and addressed the Muse in these words:—" 1 consider the most t.- I tem' feature in our present situation ts, that we are now for the first time come to a proper scale of expeodi tole." And then the Noble Marquis laid dews nearly the same scale of expeudittire as at present. In speaking of the army and navy, the Noble Marquis used these very extras's-- dinary words—not, indeed, extraordinary from him. Speak ing of the dead weight, that is, the half-lay, he said," That would be gradually decreasing, not merely by the deaths of individuate, but by the appointments Government would make of' those individuals to fill up civil situations as they became vacant." But what was the consequence of that arrangement ? The consequence wits, that•there had been, iostead of a decrease, an actual increase of 100,000/. a-year in the army and navy. He was surprised at the credulity of the Horse after these statements. The Marquis had told the House that the estimates this year would he seventeen 'millions and a half; but in 1817 the lame Ministers told the House the estimates would be 15100,000/. nod in the end of the year they found they were half a million more. Every year they went on progremisely decreasing; and he would ask, would the country Genitein, la wait until the end of the Session, until that sweetie-be forgotten panacea, an Agricultural Committee, bad prepared p Report for them, and then return home without. doing • pay thing? The present Mi• later., they might depend vow, mould ....r reduce taxation until the House emnpelled them to it by withholding the means of speeding Ibe public money. The Noble Marquis had. etor meowed by rongratulsting the House oat the prosperity Mall other classes of the community, except the agrirsi:- f mini. But he should like to know, were the Colonies is a state of prosperity ? Now let it be supposed that beta..: the manufacturing districts were comparatively prosperoi,-, 4berefere they were In a flourishing coudition. lie kaiw lota positive isformation ; that in luau? manufactures they derived the smallest possible profit, yet sooner than be idle, they were induced to work. And surely that could lie not considered a prosperous situation. But there were always two sides to a questto", mid the Noble Marquis should bawl been more cautious before he hazarded observetione be was in the habit of doing. The Noble Marquis had stated the finance aecounir of 1814, and in these were gross insecure ties. In 1811 the export of hardware was computed at four millions by Ministers; the calculation of merchants was teas. millions! In the article of haberdashery one se:course N.lf 12.0001. the other three millions! This would enable the Hoes to form some idea ol the accuracy of these statements. 1 offer the could!, in these times • reduction 1,500,0001. w an insult to their nodersianding• ; but he would beg the ,i , . tention of the House to the system of reasoning adupted tia these Gentlemen. Use Right Hon. Gent. mated, that to se duce taxation would afford no relief. The Chancellor of Cie Exchequer went a step farther, and stated, that to redo,* taxation would do positive harm ; and yet the Noble Lord tei'a the House, that although to redone taxatioo could afford it, relief, he would Melees reduce taxation. He could tiiit help remarking, with some indignation, that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Iluokisisou) found it nee/near! ir his argument to throw out taunts mid insults upon ti c people. But he could tell that Right Huu. Geod.:oye s that in that very assembly at Cuveut-garden, of which lie affected to think in meanly, he could get 10,000 perso n a more capable of judging that question than he was, lie would put 500 imiderzneu 11111.1 that House ray he would coo sent to take them by ballot, a mode o f election to whi, i s perhaps the Right Hon. Gentleman would be opposed, I.• would, however, consent to take them by ballot, and I r would uudertske to say that the system and ptiucipl• s pursued by Right Honourable Gentlemen would be in• Ghostly scouted by them.—(Cries of Hear, hear, hear.) — But the House should not be deluded by these lessperkaius measures, such measures as offering to lend some money to a few overseers of poor's rates, to alleviate great aad general distress. To conclude, he called upon thp Haase M srsi-t these temporizing expedients of Thaislers, who reward to direct the council.. of the first Dation in Eursl", mid to withstand tlw attempts to holster sip a sya. ni which demanded from the nation twenty-six million, to carry tau that Government which in 1792 was evothirtia for six indiums. Taxation must be Fedora:2 to at least between seven and ten millioae. He considered the loop,- 'limn of his Majesty's Militate," so far reuse fflePilUe the just expectations of the coontry, was a greater dirtgoointii went and imposition dams had been yet attempted.—Olear) The question was then plat and carried without a (Lesion' . . Th. (Utter Orders of thr day *ere then thitposed 41, mud the Hullo , ' vijourned at HALF-PAST ONE O'CLOCK to Monday next. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. 1 J ~~ ~~..i~ } ad besot outs asiunisornens proem, irons Inc pay It 001 Of roe rates or tut next- nor etruiu :IC 881 Wit . . . - .. . 1 1 • ' just expectations of me couutry, was •• greater dorappoini- .eareed (il. ntleman, " that taxation tended to it-- with the Learned Gentleman that great waste wool,' ensue, t r, becaeic it inert a.etl the profits upon capital ?" for it was the interest of the parish to see that no waste did sent and imposition than had been yet attenopted.—Olear ) 1 tion was the mod extraordinary axiom. advanced by that take place; auJ be by no meats, despaired that it would be The questhen put sad carried without a divisiou was, " that the employment of large capitals in 1 a great means of alleviating the public distress. lie had Th. other Orders of the day were then d " , "" " f . au s t I' es tooled to raise prices, and that taxation tended delayed the House beyond the time he Lad intended; but the Mime adjourned at HALF-PAST ONE O'CLOCk lit ' mall capitate." It nag, however, by the large ihe could not suffer his mind to be carried away by the Monday neat. --sp.---....... ;stayed that the improvements in manufactures gloomy view the Learned Gentleman had taken of the state brought about ;it wait by the large capitals that of the country. If he had been told that any country he FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. . tad been introduced, and that the WLeeel ;We jet. I the woad was in a hopeleas and desperate co•Mition, and . —........—_ in the machinery had been made, which haul m that a violation of public faith was loevitsble—if lie saw in i led the expense of productiou, and consequently I the same country no tocreasing revenue, •bundance of ea. PARIS PAPERS. prices of the articles. This, therefore, was an- i pital, extensive improvenietits carried on to an extent ...,_,.. ruttion of the effect of taxation. The Ariallend I before surpassed—if he saw moreover, the growth of popu- aof the Hon. and Learned Gentleman were not t lotion more rapid than in any other country. lie should say, PARIS. FEBRUAIIY 12. ) ( denary. In rontraiiing the income and expeodi. 't If then be the symptoms of ruin, in Gaol's Name tell Extract from a letter dated Oleo', Viebitnify 7 : i ruts r 1813, halt, and 1815 , which lie ehaiacter. toe what are the means of increasing or preserving the sta. ~ •i-u__ soul ,_ • , i i utt rot of en coneersatioo of - tine,day a4ll Ate of the ressurets of the cutaway, be hail, in or- Laity of a country?" It was mockery theta to call the con- out his •egatnr , tliswi'l ,4s ed a wan in privets life, dation; of the country el•sperate. If after all the difficulties event which bras taken place in this city, owl beetra it ame of 10,flOnt. • year, and an encumbrance of we haul undergone—all the revere trials we had eudared, great resemblance to the Celt of the ladies 11..cleyiey,, • chargekor interesekmonettlisg to nearly the same and all oar struggles had been brought to • successful soul at Marie. An English young lady of the Pratestaut retools would he obliged to lay out neatly the I happy termination, we were in a moment of despair to religion come to reside at a boarding kilos tit tti • - ,it ot income is maintaining his credit ; and that he violate our engagements, by means of which (as had been •. i ,- • , d the Roma C .-- city, where bile embra . ce e 0 ....eihertw 11:41;. c I . eiser,rel view of floe condition of this ...will ry, properly observed in the Speech from the Thermic) , we had goon. The mother. iipp . rated of the event. cause to 1 1 AIM at the state of the country in 1813, 1814, been rowel to the high station we filled in the eyes iii Ea. he was surprised how he could compare the rope, he should implore thane houourable wife in cooinara seek her daughter. but the latter mark her escape; ... the l oran. of a coiwitry tangling for its ex- lion with whom he had the hoiloar of acting, out to give and took refuge to the house or a citizen. The age . at, indeireedent Ratioik, by the rules which ' their aid iii its destractlou. Ile would conjure them by the sod name of this Eqglibh young lady, and ahro lire . • t , et. • ---.•---v-aeartomm•ear.-- . . • .....- - • • • - 4 , .- - • . . . R - -- - ~w.w,e PARIS PAPERS. PARIS. FEBRUARY Extract from a letter dated Ghrn•, Fein story 7 " The subject of the conversation of the.day is au event which has taken place in this city, ad bmra great resemblance to the case of the ladies Loyetiity, at Paris. An English young lady of the Protestaut religion came to reside at ■ boarding-huu•e iii this city, where she embraced the Roman Cigar)lie tell. gion. The mother, iimirssed of the eveul, 42i01e to s.ek her daughter, but the latter made her escape. and took refuge iu the house of a citizen. The age sad name of this Elgliah young lady, and Alr.o the '~3e icas.ts --- IPUP , w^g'l7^' _ . - M.M111. ,- 1,•••.....M. .•••••-- --