The Sun. — London, England, 1802-01-20 00:00:00

LVIPERIdL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS, TUESDAY, JAN. 19. Prayers were read by the Bishop of LONDON. The Earl of PORTSMOUTH was sworn, and tbok his seat. _ _ Some routine business was disposed of. After waiting some time, _ Lord PELI-SAM entered the House, -which, soon after, he moved—shoald adjourn till Wednesday the 3d of February. On the Question being put,' • The Earl of CARLISLE rose, and delivered his sentiments on the occasion, . but .in: such a low tone of voice, that we were precluded from hearing many of his Lordship's .observations.He• said, that a considerable degree °lan xiety prevailed with respe& to the causes of these repeated.short adjournments of Parliament, for which he conceived it incumbent, "lOW, at least, on i MinisterS to assign their reasons:. He was aware of the various reports Which'prevail ed, as to the probable motives of Ministers for Adopting such a line of , proceedinTg; but these he did not thinicproper then_to advert to, but he felt himself called upon to , say,, that some explanation on the part of Ministers ,was ; requisite, not only, for the satisfaciirth of that House, . but to remove that anxiety and uneasiness which must _ naturally sae& the Public,. on seeing Parliathent at the usual Christmas recess, adkHirned,in a „way that might be considered in some degree as de die in diem. In another, and, perhaps, more ,knpottant point of view, was some explanation 'alsb'required from Hia , Majesty's . Loichhip principally ad , ktted to the sailing of the French Fleef' to the West Indies. It was then more than'a month, that a French Fleet of more than Sixteen Sail of the Line, was known to have sailed from Brest; and confidentlyTbelieved to the West Indies, and' with a considerable number of Troops on board: this more than possibly was for a legitimate objed, and such he hoped it to be; it was ,said to. be for the regula tion of certain concerns and_ affairs in their own jslands and dominions in the West Indies ; and, as such, if successful, might probably he 'attended with beneficial consequences to our own poiSeiSiOns in that quarter; but still, he thought' some eotp munication or explanation was necessary on the patt of Ministers on 'such an occasion: nor - was this all; his Lordship observed in the ptesent state of af. fairs, respecting which, the anxiety-of the public mind required to be relieved: He alluded to the existing circumstances of this Country withrrespe& to Spain ; there was, as. he concaJied, , no official document or determinate testimonial . before Parliai meet, which clearly evinced:that we , might not be yet in a state of hostility, with that Power, and yet it was known that not only a Squadron of five Spa:: nish Line of Battle Ships sailed with the French foree'from Brest, and under convofial the French Flag, but that a considerable Spanish- force, nine Ships of the Line were now- colleted ar.Hayannalt, making, as t: his Lordship . (by'„irtistaker said, an ag.: gregate of thirteen Ships of the Line iii thar'qnar. ter, and belonging to a Power, whiehifaaotightitliey knew, might still' be an F,nemy..' These proceed ings taking place during an - interval; which, - With a reference to the present state of -Negotiatiori, might only be.. regarded as a truce,' Called ; he thOught, for explanation on . the part of Miniitets.' )-Ie hoped, and doubted, not,. that Ninisiers had adopted precautionS adequate these 'possible emergencies, and for the security of our valnable West India possessions, thongh his 'Lordship: ob_ served, as we understood 'him, that he heard. of no force being dispatched to that quarter, lit tour Sail of the Line under Admiral DUC'KWORTH, 40511 the Cadiz station. In short, in the present circumstances Of the Country, as well as- . with respe& to the - late repeated short adjournments of Parliament,he thought some explanation was called for on the part of Mi nisters. Lord PELIMIIf .rosetn consequence of what had fallen from the- Noble-Earl,. like whom, the tone of his Lordship's voice„ through a great part of his answer, was such .as -precluded us from distinftly heating him.. The Noble Secretary of State - seemed to deprecate, such a mode of questioning:Ministers, and on points obviously of the greatest-delicacy and importance—such , a mode of proceeding" would, if direaly produftive of' its ends, go to render The proceedings of Parliament the earliest vehicles of information on such points to the Public, which, ' independent of the irregularity of such , 4 channel; so we understood his Lordship, the. garbled and-im yerfe4 way in which they sometimes were given, was riot the most corral or unexceptiOnable mode. The Noble. Secretary seemed to say, that much of what fell from the Noble Earl was' dearly' irrele lint to any thing which,. in-the present situation of airs, could regularly be before Parliament ; and, on this ground, he would appeal to the House„ as to the obvious impropriety of answering so far the observations of the Noble Earl.: , ' -With respea to what the latter had said relative to the sailing of a French force to the West Indies; he had to observe, 'that Ministers were duly aware of the cireumstance, and that ihey'had.reasim to -think tilt' objetis of the French in dispatching that Armament were of a le gitimate nature, and not only - that, but they thought the interests of our possesSfOns in that quarter re quired that the Expedition should be attended with success.---At the same time, Ministers had taken such precautionary steps on'the 'occasion as id them seemed politic and proper. With respell to the motives of Ministers iri proposing such short ad journments of Parliament, adequate grounds cer tainly did exist for inducing Ministers to aft in ouch a manner, as that the sen_e of the-. Legislature might speedily be recurred to ; but. these'causes no longer' - existed, or at least, in, such . force as to ren der it necessary on the part of Administra!lon, to detail them to the House. . The Question was then put,' and=thkir LordAips adjourned until Wednesday the 3d of-Fehi-nary. HOUSE OF . COMMOS4 TUESDAY, JAN. 19. TfiE SECRETARY at WAR. brought up the-Esti.: .7.ratts of the Charge for re.embodying the Militia, pursuant to His Majesty's order of August ISoy. —Ordered to lie on the Table. The' CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that when the House was last assembled, he had expressed a dmibr, Whether he would riot have been then justified in moving to adjourn at once to the period to which it was originally intended the Recess should extend. The reasons which so fre quently induced_him to troublethe House with mo tions for short adjournments, could then.be scarcely said to exist, but as a bare possibility might be said to remain of the necessity of a recourse to the . wisdom of Parliament, he had thought it his duty to adopt theline of condo& he had done, and upon the most mature leflettion; he was convinced he had aaed right:, He was now happy in the greatest , degree to - state, that the causes which had induced. him to make these motions were entirely done. away. It was, he confessed with much stir prize that he had heard, that in some quarters an expeaation'Was entertained that he should on this day have some communication to.submit to the House ; how such an idea came to be entertained, be could not tell : he was sure it was not justified by any thing that had flen from him. In point of fat, a'communication had no reference whatever to the occasion, and it was unnecessary for him to observe, that silence with regard to a .great NA tipnal Objea did not by any means imply a wish for concealment. It must be obvious to every body, upon refleaion, that circumstances might be known to every Gentleman in.. that House, and yet upon - Which a public statement could not with propriety be made, and which were.still less fit for discussion, unless an overruling sense of duty skewed that no alternative reinaii4,4.6 -- - He had now described the subject in a way, that was, - he hoped, intelligi. 'ble, and also the grounds of his cond9a and,as it did - not appear that any Parliamentary Proceeding was necesSary, he was convinced that too little could not be Laid upon it. He should now that the House, at its rising,, should adjourn to.the second day of February, a period rather beyond that of which he had given notice on the last day the House met, but he flattered himself it would not be attended with any inconvenience to public business.- The Question for the Adjournment being put, ' Mr. ELLIOT said, he could*liot suffer this ques, tion to piss without expressing his surprise and con cern, that such a.Motion should be made without any commun ication whatever, or any notice being taken of the alarthing state of Public Affairs. It was, he believed; now three or four weeks since intelligence had a been received of the sailing of a Naval Armatitentfrnm the Ports of France, a force, he believed, - unpa)ralleled in the quarter of the globe to which it was destined. After s u ch an interval, he should have, hoped that Ministers Timid have thought-it their ditty to make some communication to the :House upon - this important subjed, and to hayse offered some. consolation Billie present abrming state of affairs, by stating, that some-communica tion had been made with the French Government upon a .subjeet that must necessarily - =excite' the :greatest . solicitude' and apprehension, He -.hot*" have thought that Ministers would . have been the More anxious to have made some communicationc. because, at present,' either the condua of the Fr;iich • Government must appear alarming, or there must be-a considerable .degree of remissness in Hi; -Ma ..jestY''s Ministers.. Whether the situation of the French Islands, in the West Indies, was such as to ,require.so large a Military Force to be Sent there, he could not take upon himself to determine: upon that subjed he . must necessarily give credit to Mi nisters; but surely it could not be necessary that 'so:hirge'a Naval Force should be sent to thatuar .ter. It could hardly be. contended that the Blacks in tfie.French Islands were in such a state of Mari time Strength, as to require a Fleet of net: Thirty Sail of the Line to be sent agai ns t then), because, he believed, they could hardly produce as many canoes. If,' however, it was necessary that such a force should be sent there by France, he was convinced that Minirers ought to have b e e n acquainted with it ; therefore, he was . bound to presume that Mi nisters knew the.. force which France intended to send. But, in Lis opinion, the English Govern_ . pent ought to . have gone further—they ought to have boUnd France down as -to the amount of the Naval Force which she was to send to the West In dies. If there was any such stipulation, and France had broken it, themshe had afted to us with great duplicity. If there was. no such stipulatiOn, then. he could not acquit Ministers of a want of proper diligence in not taking the proper means ofcounter ading, if 'necessary, the designs of France in that quarter of the world. But whatever the circum .stanceS attending the transaftion might be, the 0 - e t of them upon the Country must be obvious. Re should be glad to ask, with what weight and in fluence the Noble Lord now concluding the Nego tiation, on the part of this. Country, in France ) (and he Could not mentiop that Nobleman without expressing,: sentiments of the highest regard, and-Ve, .metaticin,for him) could now press, upon the French' Government any, point of difficulty that might arise in the Negotiation ? It was by no means extrava gant to suppose,that sortie difficul ties might arise- with regard to the extent of the cessions to be made to France in Guiana, because, 'upon that point; (Efferent -. opinions seemed to be. entertained in ]ngland' and France. ..It would not, he contended; be poiSible to press these points without the danger, at least, of breaking off the Negotiation; ,and it it were broken off, :France might re-commence hostilities t by . some important blow against some of our most valuable Colonial Possessions.• He' .did -not mean to say, that France would ad: in this way ; lie was rather inclined to think that France would not pursue any ulterior_ object, until she had taken possession of thoselinportant cessions which had been made to her ; but she might establish siich'a preponderating Naval Force in the West, - as Would render it neces sary for this Country to keep up - an adequate Naval Force there, and then he should be glad to - ask any of those Gentlemen, ,who foresaw - such great advan tages from the- Peace,. what would be the benefits which we should dt:4ive from it ? France had all *the benefit of ! a :Nival - Truce, .and ihe was, nOw, at least, , Mistress ofthe S eas in a quarter in which we had our -mast v.aluablepoSSessions: And it was to be,,recolle6ied,.that 'France' had alWays -insisted' I upon miintaimin,s the Freedom of the Seas, and had always maintained . those principles which go to destroy the Maritime Independence of this Country. He, therefore, did hope that the House- wonhthave had some account of the Remonstrances made by Government: upon this subjea. It was true that some ships had lately been ordered' from this coun. try, but he confessed he felt but.little consolatiOn at this tardy diligence on our part, because he thought we ought to have.shewn a more commenda, 'ble promptitude of preparatiop, - It was far from his wish to excite gloomy sensations in the country, but it was necessary that we should know oar real situation, and it.was necessary to excite the atten tion of Ministers,- . because the emergency was pressing and time was swift, . We were now en gaged in a- Weetiation with a country that could not rest; she,gfis all vigilance, and we could not for a"moment' without giving her an oppor. tunity of taking advantage of it s The systesi upon which she' aced, was that of domineering. over every other Power ; nothing would satisfy her but Universal dominion. If we did not. skew a corresponding energy, we were lost, The system.' upon which France ailed was vicious, but it • was not to be opposed by submission "and languor, and if we did not' show as much energy as she did, the country was ruined. Lord HAWKESBURY said, that whatever re spea he felt for the Hon. Gentleman who bad just sat down, yet from the tone with which his speech; was delivered, it was not entitled to as- much re-, sped as it would have.been, if the tone of its had"". been differeet. It most have been observable, from the whole tenor of his speech, that it was not so much a-speech upon the . subjea, upon which it was, Professed to be made, .as against .the,Peace in gene ral. The lion. Cyentlernao had spoken like as per son who did r i ot wish the Treaty flow pending to be concluded upon fair and equitable terms , but like one who wished it to fail altogether. He therefore could not think that the question put by the Hon. Gentleman, or his manner of treating the Siibjeft; were such as to entitle him to the same degree of attention, as if his sentiments had been conformable to tlitose expressed the House and the Country, viz. that of a sincere desire for Peace upon honour- able and creditable terms, suitable. to. the dignity and spirit of the Country. r.pie Hon. Gentleman had set out with an idea similar to that which had been adopted , upon a former oecasioe by another Hon. Gentleman, viz. that between the signing of the preliminaries and Definitive Treaty, no altera.: • . Lion whatever could' 'take - place in the relative situation and force of the patties, that was.not -in itself a symptom of hostility. He never understood that to be the case after a Preliminary Treaty, un less there were some, 'unequivocal,synsptomS 'of hos:. tility ;hewn. .This.CPuntry had, on.former ocea_ sions,. made great alterations in the-disposition of, her force between a Prelitpin4ry and a tive Treaty, and perhaps on 00. occasion 'more than in the present. Since the signing of the Pre.. liminary Treaty; the Evacuation of Egypt had taken place, and, after leaving•the,neceisary garrisons, a great part of our force had been brought hoMe, and the. French might with equal- propriety complain that ive had taken this opportunity of strengthen. ing ourselves at'home by the addition of so large a . force. He stated this to skew, that a mere altera tion in the force of the respeaivePowers coold not lie considered as a violation of the Treaty, unless it were marked with something that indicated 'an hostile _mind ; and upon this occasion, neither froth the way of doing this, nor from the magnitude of the force compared with its objeft, was thete :. any proof ,that . that 'Country had lifted with an hostile spirit, This was a subjeft of peculiar delicacy, and upon which he could not explain. himielf as fully as he could otherwise have wished ; but .he. thought himself at liberty to state, ;hat that Fleet did not sail czNirbogt a previous commtmication made to the Gyvernmegt of thifCcamtr.y. What the nature of that communication was, he was sure he should -not be expeetecl 'to state, hut he thought it right to add, that according to his belief and conviaion (as far as he might be allowed .to state his belief and conViaion on 'such a subjea), there was nothing attending the sailing of that Fleet, that manifested any hostile disposition against this Country. At the same time, he hoped that credit would be given to Ministers for adoptiog proper precautionary measures, that our force should not be inferior to that on the other side; The Hon, Gentleman had spoken of the tardy'. diligence of Government in sending - out lately some ships to the West Indies. In the first place, he begged leave to observe, that the Hon. Gentleman did not know what' ships had been. sent, nor from- what quarter they had been sent. It would _perhaps be as well if the Hon. Gentleman, before he made such a charge, would ascertain upon what foundation it rested. The Hon. Gentleman had asked, in what situation would Lord CORNWALLIS be placed by the sailing of so large a force to the West Indies ? He knew of no. thing that would render it necessary for that Noble 'Lord to - hold language less firm and vigorous than that, which had hitherto been held. On the con: trary, he should say, .that taking into consideration the situation of the two Countries, there was no reason why as firm language should not be used by the British Minister in France as if this event hit& not taken place. Having stated these two points, first, that that. Fleet did; non sail without previous communication to this Country, and that there was .no circumstances attending ' it that manifested a hostile disposition to this Country ; and secondly, that- Ministers were entitled to credit for:having taken due precaution upon the subjeft,.it would not be necessary for him to occupy more of the time of the House, except to observe, ,that the whole of the Hon. Gentleman's speech did not relate to the suc cess of the Definitive Treaty upon fair and equitable terms, but was in fact a speech , against making Peace altogether, or making any Treaty whatsoeser. Dr. LAWRENCE said, the answer of the Noble Lord_ appeared to him by no means to be satisfac tory, and therefore be should conclude . with an amendment - to the Motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. _';li(appeared•to him to be rather anew mode of treatitigi,ttiehHonse. of Commons to say to any Gentlemanow&liffer from me upon the subjea of PeaCe, and therefore:your observations - are 'not entitledita .. alti'Vipea. If any danger which threatened; the; Country was stated, it was the, duty clf Ministers to examine, whether that - t , dangeriiiiste it did, how it WAS to be ga rid of. His Hon. Friend (Mr. ELLIOT), had no t stated, that it was the intention of the French to renew hostilities; he stated that their objeCt was to establish a great and preponderating force in tha t ' part of the world, and he should be' glad to know' what 'answer had been. given to that arguthept.,-; But the 1% , ,,b1e, Lord had said that 'we had evacuate s Egypt, and that the french might as well complain that we had violated the Treaty by bringing hotoe so large a force. This appeared to hini to be c very unlucky illustration, because the objeet; France in making Peace Was to obtain the evacua tion of that Country, But he should be glad t° , hear any reason assigned. why France should se ll " out so large a force. He had reason to think the there wasno.occasion for. so large an army, becaus e Toussaint L'Ouverture professed himself dependan t on France, and obeyed the orders 'he received frolli that Country. - But admitting that France migh t wish to possess that Island by a more secure twos: could- irbe necessary to send out so large a naval force as near thirty sail of the line ? Supposing Toussaint aimedat complete Independence, such, immense naval force surely could not be necessary to subdue a man who had no maritime power what ever. It might be said, that the French were mor e in the habit of sending .out Troops in ships of tb e line than in transports e but that was no r easoo ~why we should sutler a step to be taken so danger' ;ous to this Country. He did not suppose that f - nisters would suffer such . a force to remain in the Wet Indies without sending out an adequate for" even if we did send otit an equal force, Was It quite clear that they could counteract the hosti l e attettipts of the French fleet ? Though we had 3 Fleet eclual to them in Port Royal Harbour, it might be unable to prote6t Jamaica from an attack of the Enemy from the Hayannalt and St. PorningQ. inittipg, however, that by keeping a large Fleet in the Vy'est Indies, we might secure our. Possessions there, would that be a state of Peace ? He knew 1 this was a point of great delicacy, but in what tuation would the •Country be to have two such . large Fleets looking at one another ? It was impuS". sibleitor theta to be in that Situation long withou t coming to hostilities. If even that was not [l l5 case, it -would be a most intolerable.burthen to the Country to have such a force in that quarter. The question 'then was, whether, under these circnnle. stances we might not take some measures for our set ' curitylagainst the *danger and expenee with Wh l c 4, ' we were threatened ?...Did he wishla break off th e Treaty.i—Certainly not, but he , wished somethins; tp be-. done for the security:of rife (i)nntry. •t i f still retained the opinion bei9 - re : Oelivcre t 'f, that this Treaty would ptit thit'Couiit-ty' ba d. state l : but he submitted to thosewho Were better. qualified todecide than. himself, and therefore be__ did not. wish. t 9 break off the Treaty. What oh jeCtion, could there be to 04 obtaining some sec''' rity for the return of this large fleet ? Why shoull; :-there ?not .be some-regulations • ,respeCting the nav3;),-. 'force to be kept up by both Powers in the ditferP l ' ,, • Tarts of the Globe? The security be alluded to Wi t . !that-of retaining the possession of Malta and cape, until that Fleet- returned, If this wa a re; fosed, how could we rely upon their sincerity; IL certainly would' be for the advantage of b9tll, Countries that their Naval Force should•be red uce d ' Whether such a prosposal had been made or nut eouldsnot tell; but it 'seemed -to him that it CO . ' poche made so well as with the knowledge of 1 1 " r: Nan:tent, and therefore he thought that-the aught not to adjourn for so long a time.- He ha t t pressed this point the more, because he i la , • heard it stated, that the ()Ned. of the Fre" t • make St. Domingo-in the West Indies France was in Europe. France would continul lu c send more and more troops out, and thougtoict. Might keep a large Naval force there, we ulig! cr not have a Military Force there su ffi cient to r esi i them, if they made any attack. Besides, it woo ls, be ruinous to keep so large a Naval Force ther e ; while on the other hand it would be advantageriti° to France, who wish e d to re s tore her Navy. liP ° 6 , these grounds he should propose, that the H° i '- v should only adjourn to Tuesday. next, ,because seemed to him to be material, that while the N e ge () ; tion was going on, Parliament should 'appear to Pi vigilant, and be upon its post e and . at this seaso n , the year he thought it could not, be attended wi t s w any inconvenience to Gentlemen.—He conclude with moving as an Amendment—" That the Hot is ! - should adjourn to Tuesday next." Thr ATTORNiY GENERAL said, that- the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who spoke last, al" peared to him to have taken a very imperfea. foe' c i sure of his' duty. If he thought, as .he prof ess' indeed, that the Ratification of the Prelirnioa r Articles of - Peace would place. this Country situation from which it cannot recover, it was duty as a Member of the'House of Commons, ri b f only to interpose 'every difficulty in the WAY of Peace, but also in the way of the Ratification to. the P 1 " 'Preliminaries, the which, if he be right, " 35* seal . the doom of his. Country... -Indeed, he believ e .° the conduct of the Hon. and Learned. Gentlecnau y, bemore consistent than he nrOfessedit to . he , f or had bY his speech, - given the Peiw . ,.e asofo o struftiOn this ' day, as there VaTtOr A ce.ittt4at..sp eec i ls -51 c 44 If any' body doubted this inference,' he.would b what was the praCtical efrea to -which this sr e a.. was klirdled ? For although .he.gave. it no d ire !ion; altboUgh he drew no inference, or made (t tt cOnclusion from it, still it Must be .taken for gra ot that: he aimed at something. his situation , ,leis, talents, his gravity, must induce all who lo c ' as hitne - to Suppose that he had a drift in it. Ic not for The purpose of amusing himself with sPc 3 ,.. , what was the Purpose ?:,--What the . 42 b y e jet ?—What but to try whether MiniSterS cola compelled to utter what 'they Ought not to utter,, T o try whether they would not be. so weak der Under a feeble irritation, to disclose theasureilineite a Negotiation, most prematurely, pending a Tr y Suchya-state of things. had, always, hitherto/ t he deerno to he 'sufficient reason for silenee 000, part ial-IVlinisters, and also'had,..filatik.3, beeli e° o3 , .• siderOd as a sufficient excuse for the House of t"" t i, mons, anxious for, the, true intetthgnis C , °/ ; -s c e, tuents, ,not- to . call -for such prethitttieildis'oi r ' s " , ~,e for it: might possibly be much- to tlietili's. dean of the Country, and yet the only r adical cot' 44 e sion that could; be drawn was, that -the Hoot a