The Sun. — London, England, 1807-07-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS. FRIDAY, JULY 24. Sir S. ROMILLY was heard in the Appeal Whatilon v. May. A great nnmberof 'Public and Private Bills, to the number eat least 23, were brought up from the Commons,. and read a first time. -Among the for mer were theMilqja, Pay, and •Cloathing`Bills, the Irish ;I , lilitia Pay Bill, the British Museum Bill, &c. The other. Bills on the table were each forwarded' in their respe&ive stages ; after which the House ad journed. ROUSE QF COMMONS, FRIPAY, 'JULY 24. The Qualifibation Indemnity Bill, and the Ex- Chequer Bill were reported, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Naval Stores Bill, the Irish Sugar Bill; and the Irish Place Bill' were read a thirif time, and passed. The Committee appointed to consider the state of the West India Colonies. was 'empowered to report the minute.; of the- evidence taken before 4. 7 -The minutes were presented, and orderi.;d to he printed. A Message from the LOrds : , declared their ,Lord .ships' assent to upwards of twenty. Private Bills. On the Motion of . Mr. JEirttty, it was ordered, that the Deputy Clerk of the Crown should at ten d the House on Tuesday next, with the Writ fol. the Eleaion of Membets , to serve in Parliament for , the : Contity of the Town of Poole, and the, return there to ; and also that the Sheriff of Poole should attend on the same occasion, to giVe testimony as to the delay of the said Writ, and the causes thereof. WOOLLEN MANUFACPRE. . . In the Committee of Expiring Laws, ,Mr. Ron moved 'a Resolution for Continuing ,tojhe gbth of March next, the Aft suspending certain penalties in the Woollen Manuladure. LOrd MILTON urged the iniportance of coming to final adjustmentot the difference.s existing between. the various clamps of persons concerned in the Wool len Nlannfaaure. With a view ,to ac:c!eleiate this final adjustment, be moved,. as an amendment, that the durition of the' Suspension A& should be li mited to four Ns;eeks after the commencemtnt of the next Session of Parliament. Mr. P. Moore stated, that.an arrangement of the differences in the Woollen Manufaabre had for up wards of five years engaged the attention of the House by its Committees. All thd parties were tired of dissention, and more desirous than ever to come to a final arrangement. . . Mr, fit/U(1980N said, Government was anxious to forward, by all means in its power, the final ar rangement of the differences which had so long ex isted. After a few words frOm Mr.,Rossand Mr.. Lot es GRAIIAM, it was agreed that the Chairman should report progress and ask leave to sit again, with a view to consider in the interval how the speedy ad itistrOent of the existing differences could be best provided for. The Committee is to sit go Monday. ' PUBJACANY I.IC.ENCE,'S. , Mr. Sumo:v.4 presented, several Petitions from the Brewers, Distillers, alid Publicans of Middlesex and Surrey, against the abuies of the powers exer oised by the Magistrates of those COunties with re spea to Publicans' Licences. The Petitiuns were ordered to lie on the table, Mr. Sheridan gave no tice, that in the next week ,he should submit a mea sure for the thief of, the grievances complained of `by the Petitioners. 'The . SECRUTARY at WA ft presented the Accounts ordered on the. Motion of Mr. CocintssrA lonw -147.01;e, relative, to the sums received for thelpur chase of Cotmissions in the Army, and the disposal th'ereol. ", On the Motion for 'the third reading of the Com passionate Bill, Mr, Loth), with every wish to pro mete the comtint and the relief of the persons who were the objeas of this Bill, thought it hi s duty to state s that on inquiry as to the etre& of the regula tions of this Bill, with reipea to the half=-pay of the Navy, he had I , lund. that they invOlved a very vo luMmous and expensive correspondence, which, of course, would , be more embarrassing in the Army, as the half-pay list of the Army amo4nted, to 4000 persons, while that of the Navy was only Gnu. . Alter a short conversation between 'g ener al Fyn . rATructt, the ...REctieTi.at WV, a, and Mr. LONG, who were all :tuitions to promote the•purpOse the Bill had in view, the Bill was read a - third time, and passed., On the Motion of Mr. HUAISSON it wtts ordered, that the flonie•Should to-morrow go into ,a Com mittee, to consider of the propriety of allowing a Bounty on the exportation at PrintW , Cotton Goods 'to Malta. On the Motion of Mr. liusiassoN,. the Resolu tion, of the Committee of the. House, for allowing the mutual import and export of Cotton Goods be tv.'ectiVreut Britain and Ireland, duty free, was ,con firmeci, and a Bill ordcrod aCcorclingly. The Crown Bill went. through a Com mittee. The Report r , ceiired,. and the 13111 was ordered to be read a third time to-:morrow. 'Sir JiJIIN' N!:%%'?OlIT Wi3lltid to know from the Chancellor of the ESchequer of _lreland, 'Whether it WWI illtelldcid to bring in a-Bill to auwnd the rlefe6t . in the Acct 110101.1, relative to theiSpirit intercourse between Gteat 1101ain acid Ireland ? Toretrieve the hardships arisin: from this'defekt, a temporary Bill had ee . r. passed . : suspending the penalties that would otherwise ft inctirred: , - This Suspension till had expired. 1f it was wit . the, intention, of the Right lion. Gentlttiao to bring forward Vila! a measure .as heall'Av,i to, he g.teenotice that . he Would .hitu self move for leave to bring in A Bill to thateired, oy Etc beard -there was - a disposition to sa crifice, interesti cif ireiapd to those of I.inglaad, Which he would endeavour in every itiJstance to counteraft..'r teer a few wads' from Mr. FOSTER, Sir Jot*/ Itirel.vsoirr repeated his notice fur Nlohday. Mr. if USKISSOR gave notice, that it was the in tention r4f h Majestyis'Cayeraravtit to bring fir. ward 3 aitilStirk Of the IM MO tiaturt: 011 Tintsday. The Fish Spirit Rtgnlation 11111 Weot thrQUgh Coinitlilttee;' th Repart to bt.; ratived tu-tnarrow. tido the Milt itegttlatipn 11141. The CHANCELLIIt of the EXOTEQUETI gave ill" tire, that, he would on Wednes'ilay noN.t, id the Committee of Supply, mOvothai a farther Ctiiiwen sation be granted top°4l(lr JenUer, for dikovery of Vaccine Inoculation, in consequence 0C the - e4 l - 1 - hashed efficacy of that' invention, according to the Report of the College of Physicians. On the Motion ,of Mr. litputissoN, the Account of-Gtants - unproVided for, by Parliament, vas Order ed by Address to his Majesty..., IRISH INSVRRECTION Upon the. Motlon of Sir Atmtun Witm.usr.f:y; the House v.icot . again into a (juintnittee open the . Irish Insurrection Bill. Upon the Clause, empowering the Assistant Bar riger to preside as Chief Judge at the Sessions, and in case of a difference of opinion between him and the' majority of the lilagisnates, authorising him to report the case, with the evidence r tkc. to the Lord Lutenant ; • • Sir Jour; NTELDPORT, by way of limiting the power of the Assistant Barrister, proposed as au Amend. rnent to this Clause, that the report of such Alsist- : ant Barrister should not be final and conclusive. A - division immediately took place upun this Amendment,when there appeared—For the Amend ment 29—Against it 63 7 —Majority for the original Clause 24. On our re-admission to.the • Gallery, we found tho'Committee tiiicussing the Clause wherein it is prob:ided that Magistrates may have the power to enter houses',.Or authorise any person by warrant to do so, at any time from' after sun set to sun-rise, from which they shall suspect the inhabitantc'or any of them, to be then absent, and cause absent persons to be apprehended, and deem ed idle and diSorderly„ unless, they can prove that, they were absent upon their lavilul occasions. Sir JOHN NEWPORT exPresSed his anxious wish to guard this Clause from the consequences of VI abuse of such extensive and important powers .8$ were thereby to be committed' to the Magistrates. In order to prevent the appointment of rash and unadvised men to execute this duty, he should re commend that the Magistrates. should be required to give iu to the Quarter Sessions, lists of such . per, sons as they, may think fitted for the purpose :of searching houses, and demanding admission, and that such lists should be delivered in within 'the period of 48 hours after the county is, proclaimed, under a. penalty of tool. Without such' a 'sae guard, he certainly should divide the Cenunittee upon thittpart of this Clause: ' • Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY and the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought it would be: income , nient taking the sense of the Committee upon this pointi previous to settling theterms . of the Clause in other particulars. Stich a provision would at all events lead to ,an unnecessary and premature pub lication of the _names of persons who were to be so employed by the . Magistrates. Mr. CROKER proposed, as a preliminary point to be settled, viz. that after demanding admission, the officer employed should, i‘ after a reasonable time," such as the space of 'ten minutes, being al lowed, if refused, proceed to enter a dwelling-house by force, as the objp6t of the search was to bud who wcs absent, and not •WhOWAS in the'bouse. Sir JOHN NEWPORT stated, that ,as this was a, search to be made in the dead hour of 'night, when all persons were supposed, to be asleep, the demand, ing admission from persons in such 'a situation, was, in his opinion, preposterous, as they could not hear those who called, and 'theretbre the 'tern) " sonable time" +Ali, very.—indefinite.' In his OPillion, it would' certainly be bet.er to specify a .particula r length of time, which n3ight be deemed te 33o 't,'.o l o; to await admission, atter some person within ttm house had answered the demand of adtbission the officers. PEREk ER thought this was frittetin away the power of the •Magistrate, by throWittg .penalties in the way, and. leading •to ,What was wanted by his side of the House !Nit; tr,), make the Bill effectual ; and therefore; the pgrpose of the Bill, upon which the Committee seemed tea be agreed, ought not to be Iriltered away, merely to indulges the disposition alone side of the' Ming, opposing the other. He thought, the insertion of the words, " reasonable , 'time," would be suf ficient. • Sir SiIMUEL ROMILLY said, that when the House considered that this demand of admittance was to be made in the dead of night, a sufficient lime was certainli'necessary, in order• to allow fe males to rise out of bed; 'and put themselves in a proper situation, before men forced thernielves into a house. Without that, the greatest violation of decency Haight be the consequence of breaking in 'abruptly, when persons are asleep. Be., then _fore, thought it , would be preposterous to „say, that the space of ten minutes, at least, ought not to be al:- lowed. . . Mr. LAING considered that this was a case of . as serious a nature as that of a Magistrate: ordering the military to fire upon a mob. The law had prO vided that in this latter case, the Magistrate must waif half an hour precisely, befOre he.could• assume that power, while in this ease a doMiciliary visit was to be made in the night time, by persons authorised by a Magistrate, and the house was to be broken into without any space, of time, or upon such warning as they Might t►tink proper; This was certainly a most unlimited :power, a n d liable to great abuses, he highly Approved of a specific time being inserted in the AO. He should suggest the space of a quarter of an hour being allowed tor the warning,.atter the people within doors had been' awoke,, Mr. .CROKEIt observed, that' a subsequent clause In the Bill, relative to the intliating a penal. ties, might., obviate some of the objeatiohs. which. might be stated Viiinit what he had prvpo,ed, the injUry fo7' . which an a6lion was sbrought by a Plaintiff was certified to .have been wilfully 'and ma liciously. committed, such plaintiff might be entitled, t 6 • double coSts, by way at punishing the Magi. .strate. Nay, they might even trebled, or . fur., therincreased in proportion to the Olfence rominit « ted,' so that the hardship likely to arise, .might be thereby obviated. Mr. GRAMIN said, that this was a - power of a most.dangerous and al fining nature ; and although be might allow it to be ,necessary, yet ht. wished this Committee to" idea to what sort of .people it wai likely to be given, It was to any perioh Magistrate might please to appoint Whom he appoint ? He . would appoint the tnost.despeotte fellow in his neighbourhood; he nit& apptAnt an hostler, a loitilicth, or a cow boy. To• these, and such people, he was 'to givera power' to break ; into any house in his distria. They were to be allowed even tribreak into lathe's' bed-chambers; for-it was not necessary, by the mode in which this'Bill was proposed obe waded, to wait for a refusal. Such would be the consequence of insu'l'ting the u ords reaionahle - tiMe." specific. He MOinit to V1)1.2 against this clause, as it would bring such . an ettiktrn- upon the Legislature of the country. :To tallt'of daMages, 6y subjecting the .111agistrates to the payment- of costs, was, in either 'Case, an insult to, the injured feelings of a wo •man, even of the lowest . ' family, who might ,chance to he intruded upon. For these masons he approved of inserting a reasonable time., . Mr. J. C. pREItESPORD. said, he was far from agreein , r with the Bon. Gentleman whU spoke last, , as he trtought it very unlikely that the Magistrates of Ireland would depute either postilions, cow-hays, or any desperate fellow to • perform such an ottice.--:- l'hey would.be men resident in the place, and not desperadoes that would be.. employed. He approved of inserting the words,• (c reasonable time," ,sOlely, without specifying any particular period, because it was not likely that cow-boys, postilions, or any others', commissioned upon such busineis, would have a watch in his 'pocket to ascertain the time.---; Besides, iti would only prove an inducement to per sons in the inside of the house to dispute the time, and give rise to prosesecuttons against the Magi , itrates or their Deputies, in the execution of their duty. . . Mr. GRATTAN added, that he knew of ih stance,s, where Magistrates had adually abused ,their power, and' therefbre be thought that such power as this ought to be conferred upon -them with the greatest caution. He was on this eccount the more convinced that it was necessary to quality the Bill, in order not to discredit it, nor to violaie, domestic quiet. , • Mr. ABERCROMBIE observed; that he' knew of instances somewhat .siniilar to this, where .suCh ueliMited powers gave rise to the greatest -com plaints. In searching for - arms, great inconvenience was experienced. by a)lowieg soldiers, to have' such poWer. It had been found necessary. never to allow it to be done, even by serjeants, without the pre senceof officers; and he had known instances where ttci thanks of the people, whose- houses had been searched, were presented ,to Withers, for the incon veniencies they 'had thereby escaped. • The SOLICITOR-GEAERAL said , that this was a novel and, severe measure, upon that they seemed all agreed; and they also seemed to acknow-i ledge.,the necessity of the MagistrateS having' ad- . mission by night, either by voluntary or compulsory Meahs; the singte question,*therefore, was, what length 'of time should be allowed to elapse be fore compulsory admission 'shoeld be attempted.— Ile thought the words . (e reatopable time," were Infinitely best. There would thereby be less pros peel of litigation, than if the time was confined to a certain number of minutes. In either case, 'should it appear that the Magistrate had, by his deputies, broken in before 'a reasonable time,' he • would be equally Stibjed to &images. There, might LAi. cases where even the space of ten mintites_wanld long enough to wait, and others where it 'might be too long. This was a proper ,subjea .fr,r the deci sion of a jury, as it must vecessarily 4pend upon cir cumstances.' . Dr. LAiPRENCE disapproved of the whole clause ; anti although he should endeavour, to amend it, he was not pledging himself not to obje& to it afterwards, in oh), in a 'future, stage. This was g;ving*.a new and unexampled power, never before tolerated iu any country, under any circumstances. He thought . , a specific time preferable to an'indeti .nite one., • , • Sir St 1 MUEL liOMILLY added, that he could not see bow The, difficulty of litigation was to be got rid at; as had been. suggested by the ltight Hon. and Learned Gentleman (the Solicitor Cie- Imp!) by the mode supported by the other side on the contrary, he thought it would be greatly in 7 i , A creined, and the NlagniLrines . ,placeu.Ontit , Cr very great di then hies.. . . • The ATTORNEY-dE . IIAL supported the propd -01,0 — inserting " reasonable time," for, in either case, he: thought it would be best to leave it. to the judgment of alury. ' - The question being. loudly called for, strangers were ordered to withdraw ; and,,at the same time, Mr' Wilberforce wag rising to deliver his sentiments. The . House then di% ided 2 For an indefinite time 74. a specific time :r3.—Majority 41. Many other clauses. were gone through, and after s each.ondergoing a pretty, lung discussion, several Amendments Were made. on the folloWingclause, "'Provided alwari, and be it turther eitaaed, That when a verdict shall be given tin the Plaintiff in any action to be brought against any Jubaice of the Peace, Peace Qffleer, or Whet' person, tbr taking or imprisoning, or detaining any person, or for seizing arms, or entering houses under colour of any authority given by this AA, and it shall appear to thd Judge or Judges before whom, Ad same , shall be tried, that there was a probable Cause tor doittOhe Aa complained of in, and the Judge or Court shall certify the same on Record, then and in that case the Plaintiff shall not be entitled to more than .6d. Daniages,• nog' to . any costs of suit." Mr: BRAND moved that the whole Clause he omit ted, its grOssly unjust and unconstitutional. Tile CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER admitted 'that the Clause was not one which he could have wished to see introduced, but when the necessity of the case was con s id e red.. Wh en i t was recol-, Jeciect that•the'state of Ireland required titat very irksome and disagreeable, duties should be im posed on the Magistrates; which theywould be un willing to perform, and - which, in fact, it would be 'dangerous for : them to pertbrm with the zeitaini fidelity required, unless they wore proteaed froin the areas- of unintentional- errors into which, from appear;:tuces, they might be:led—when, in short it .wa*.considered that the very Jurors in such actions of dainages' might be persons against whom it had been necessary forthem,to exerciie•tlie.F,na&nietttgof tliis Att,.and whose mitt& might, on that account, he inflamed against themi`'Wnen.:all these things 'were r'4aisidered, it,AffaS the tigkon of those beat ad- Tian; ted with the-state of Lreland, that the Aet must U 4) imperfealy executed, - Unless the Magistrates ,',,C,Cored by a clatise like the present, ! Sir A. PIGOTT was decidedly of opinion that tie- • provision no* objeeted to, would be a disgrace to i the Statute.'look. Were they by this most -extra- . ordinary Bill, to give extraordinary powers to Magi strates, 'apd then, after they had- exceeded even the powers given them, to prate& them from the ver dict of a Jury? If the Right Ellan. Gentleman was afraid that the persons aggieved might .obtain a ver • di& while • the-Country was in 'a -state of irritation„ : why limit the (tree for seeking redress to six months! If again he was afraid of the inflammable state of thti Jurors' minds, ,and that might even have been parties in thc supposed transgression, the remedy was plain -and easy 7 -to change the venue to a more distant county, Where po dissatisfaCtion or irritation. .of feelings had prevailed. It had been said, that a similar Act had been intended to be proposed by the late Minfstry. He would only say for one, that he liad never.beeu consulted on, nor heard of such-an • . :intention, nor had he ever , seen• the present Bill till • yesterday. :If the state of Ireland was such a the „Right. Hon. Gentleman represented, and that a Jury could not be had there whose mind was -not in an inflammatory state, why not take away the Trial by Jury entirely, at-least suspend it, till the 'feelins of the people were restored to a greater degree of calm ness and composure ? ,It was a,.MKkely to continue the trial by'Jury, and yet to deprive an. injured per son of the eta eet of- a verdi& after it had been given in his tavoer.. It was said,that the Judges Of Ire land were fair, impartial, and upright. ..He should be sorry to doubt it.. .kle believed-- that' they, it' common With jUdges of this part of the Kingdaini with whom he was, more intimately acquainted, - . • possessed every honourable tied iiprielit feeling and" quality. But this was powertnht to be : ,entrnited to any Man. It was such. a . power as the law had , refused to atilt' Judge, or any set'ofJu4ges whateiter, The 4711'0.8..V.E.YGENBlirt'L contended, that the eiraament now objected to was not so novel as the. Hotidurable and Learned' Baronet had suppoSed. He confessed that Plaintilis in the situation alluded to were. to be deprived of .the benefit of the coin ? , men Law ;• but. Was not this already. the case in 'all . revenue questions ? Where an Officer of the'Reee , .. line was sued, nothing but the dry damage sustained' by the injured party was awarded *against him; , Where' it. was a question of intention in reveoue cases, and no intention ceuldbe alte*n, the Plainug could not. recover ;', and: it. had been detertnitiadi.jas-.: the case of &won and Johnston, that the q.lestlini Of "probable cause" was a question kr the Judge. -There the Defendant would haVe acquittal,- and of course his costs from - the. Plaintiff; here the Plain tiff to have a nominal verdict, even although-the Judge Was of opinion that the probable cause was ,w Wi o t u h l . t t i lle ia ,!? e e t f o en p d e a r n f t o . rm Th il d i d t u h t e ies pr ' e v s i e li n u t h s i‘ ;a l t a e gi o s t t.r l a t t •o 4l - 1, land, were of a most invidious nature, and he thought that this was , not too great an 'indemnity to allow them in the dkcharge of such duties. 111r.BOYLE(SOlicitor-General for Scotland) Con? tended that the Hon. and Learned Baronet (Sir Pigott) had gone too -far in treating the proposed ' Resolution as so great a novelty, and as so grievous . aninfringement of the Law and Constitution of this . Country. If the Hon. and - Learned Bart. had con- Belted the Statnte Book, he would have found 'similar Resolutions as t'o Ireland had hnen peatedly betbre this time ) nay, that at this moment, such formed a part of the Law of the Land... If the -Hon.. and Learned Bart. had found the enactment• in queition so very obnoxions, why did, he not come forward In liis`.otlicial situation, when lie was At torney-General, and move that it be expunged from • the Statute Book. He hid no doubt that the Hon., and Learned... Person, when, in office, agreed with hie friends in the Ministry in thinking the Clause in dis-' . pute essential to the well-being of Irland. He (Mr. , , • Boyle) recolleeleti• .being ip' the /louse .0Q the everting when the present Bill was •introduced4 - and he retneMbered perfeetlY well that Gentle Men every side agreed in the necessity of the Measure, except one Hon. Gentleman, whom he now saw in his place (Mr. Sheridan), who declared, he had no doubt maiv.couscientionsly, hicreselption to OPP °55 ' Bill. Itr ' every stage. Mr. - AP declared, , that he had not 'heard a legal or constitutional sentiment uttered oft , the signet, except what had fallen from his` Hon; Friend behind flint (Sir-A. Pigott), He had indeed heard something like an attempeata -legal defence of the measure, - by showing that such prglices alstt , . prevaili4 in revenue questions. But would that ' .der the power more agreed to Law or. to the Consti-' union ? Was it not known and aCknowledged, that our Revenue Laws were infradions of uur COll&tittl+ , (=al liberties, and Were only tolerated as atl4 of necessity, which, indeed, was the only atternprat vindication of the present 'measure? Thenecegitt pf the Revenue Laws we must all be aware of, :ate . ! great revenue could nut other w i se be eXp e eted to pc I levied, bet of the necessity of the present provisio - he was by no means convinced: An, Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Boyle) had; hoWever, (rata the Provision as part 'of the existing Law of this -.Country, and had aSked, why, if se• obnoxious 16 his Hon. and Learned Friend (Sir- A; Pigott) h o had not moved.to have it expunged from the Sta .lute'Book.? A PrOVision to the same effea' he (Mt Whitbread) admitted, did make part of a Statute of 'the Parliament of Ireland; which would expire an . the ist of August. It would have been too nitleh''. however, he suspeete.d, for his Learned - Friend ra have come forward . here, and moved to have th .it enaCtinept. expunged. At all events, an. enactment -of the Irish Parliament could not aet its a preeedevt for that, House, or' afford any such argument ;far - : v'now adOpting k, as if they had been re-enatting4 i ' .former .Legislative measure of_ their own. Tilei t ' might be a general conviction of thearecessity of ug present Act, and yet the clogging it with one clOr • similar to that now objected to, .might render it, sa unpalatable that many Getitlemen ; ,Who, ,like 1111 11 " •self, were not otherwise unfriendly to the measere, might rather wish to see Ireland take its chance than thus relinquish one of the dearest and most valuable rights. It was hardly possible, but that in the es& cution of such tie Ate as the present, innocent per' sons should stiffer wrong. Their Country, however, , would still be naturally near to them, and they W ou , i t cheer thenlselvea' with' the hope that they had renicdy lett—f-that they . had still - a Jury - to prote_ A u : them and. to- red ress th e wr ongs they bad sustainc! If the clause now-objected to, howeer, : .u, p . 05 1 7 t they, could have no ,stich consolation, "gg s . - - appeal to a Jury—a-Jury might give %bent red . O n S j but they might then find the Judge uereese, A