The Sun. — London, England, 1802-04-14 00:00:00

men inrotled, should be divided into classes, that la rule class should be placed those who were unmarri ed, and under 30 years of age ; in another, those 4ho were marriAi, but had no children; in another, those with ore child ; and so on ; by this means, as all the classes need not be called out together, re. course might be had, in the first instance, to the youngest men, and those with the smallest families. With respeCt to Substitutes, he omerely meant to propose, that the Substitutes should be taken gout those who resided in the same County as those fo; whom they served. As to the organization of the Regiments, he intended to propose, that each Companv should have a Captain, and that Field_ Of should not have Companies. With respect to the fOrmation of the Regimental Staff; it was his intention to propose, that there should nor be a Pay master to any Corps which consisted of less than three Companies ; his object was to prevent the great expence which arose, at present, from small Corps having as large a Staff as those consisting of much greater numbers. He also intended to pro pose, that there should not he a Surgeon to any Corps consisting of less than two Companies, and that no person should be a Surgeon to any Corps of Militia, until he had been examined at Sur geons' Hall, and until his skill had stood the test of an examination before competent judges ; he proposed also, that they should be placed on the same footing as Surgeons of laintry in the Army. As to the Non-Commissioned Officers, it was his in. tention to adhere to the 26th of his Majesty, with. re spect to their number, being one Serjeant and one Corporal for every 30 men. , But it was his inten tion to propose, that the Serjeants, Corporals and Drummers should be bound to reside near the place where the arms of the regiment were deposited ; and that they' should he under the care of the Adju tant. It was intended that they should obtain a perfect knowledge of. the exercise, by which means, the men, when called out, would he easily taught in the prescribed time during which they were to be out, whilst if the Serjeants and Corporals were de ficient in skill, when the men were called out to exer cise, it was evident that a great delay must take place in the latter obtaining a knowledge of their exer cise. He should propose also to the House, that the pay of the Serjeants, Corporals and Drummers should be increased and made very near that of the same description of persons in the army ; that the pay of a Serjeant of Militia should be is. 7d. per day, of a Corporal ts. 2a. and of a Drummer the same as a Private, is. : he should also propose, that if any Non-Commissioned Officer was absent, with the leave.of his Officer, that he should receive his former rate of pay ; if he was absent without leave, it would, of course, be forfeited. With re sped to training and exercising, he intended to pro . pose, that instead of exercising two-thirds for 28 days, the whole should be exercised for at days. The e:olence of exercising the whole for a i days, would be the same as exercising v.vo.thirds for 28 days, and the farmer period would be sufficient - for the purpose. When. the Supplementary Militia were called out, 20 days was found sofiScient to teach them their exercise, and in 21 days the Militia would at least learn how to prime and load, apd fire, and to march, without falling down. As to the embodying,. he proposed that the same power sh'iu!d be given to His Majesty of sending the M ilitia to any part of Great Britain, as - at present. It had been suggested that they might be suffered to go out of the Kingdom, but he should not make . stn y suc h proposition. He should confine himself to what bad been before rate pradice, leaving the other consideration to the exigency of the moment ; and whenever it.at exigency should happen, as it had not long since, he was convinced there was spirit enough in Great Britain to carry any measure into effeCt that such exigency might render necessary. He had every reason -to believe, that our Brethren in the Northern part of the Kingdom, were now perfealy satiAed with the mode of raising the Militia, and that they would most readily, whenever. .called upon for that purpose, march to any part of Great Bri tain. He wished, however, to propose, that in - case His Majesty should not think_ it necessary to embody the whole, that His Majesty should be empowered to call out any part of the Militia, and to distribute them as he should think necessary.— lie had stated, that it was proposed to augment the Militia of England to 60,000, and that of Scotland to tz.ooo, making altogether 72,b00. He con_ dueled by moving for leaveto bring in a Bill, " to :mend and consolidate the Laws relating to the .in that part of Great Britain called England, and for augmenting the number of the Militia." Mr. SqERIDAN said, he had listened wilt great pleasure to the very able and 'distinft manner in which the Right Hon. Gentleman had opened this subjea to the House. Undoubtedly although every body must wish to see every possible degree of economy praCtised, yet it would be, at the same • time, necessary that such a force should be main tained in this country - , as the general state of affairs in Europe required. The statement of the Right 1--hm. Gentleman had given him the more pleasure, because h e was always a sincere friend to the Mili tia Establheient, and therefore he had viewed with n, teat regret the encroachmentswhich had of late been made upon it, which had broken in very con siderably upon that constitutional system of de fence. The plan of consolidating all the alts upon this subject, appeared to him to he a very good one, and he lit Ted when the Militia was placed upon its former footing, that it would not again be encroached upon, as it had lately been. Be hoped, that when' Gentlemen bad spent so much time in disciplining their regiments, and in gaining the affection of their men, that they would not again be, placed in the situation of mere Dtill Serjeants, anti that the prin ciple of Militia Law would not again - be de- - parted from. He perfetily agreed with the Right • Hon. Gentleman as to what he said respeCting the Surgeons of the Militia; but an Hon. Baronet had some time ago presented a . petition reseeding the. half-pay of Snrgeons in that Establishment, which be hoped theßight Hon. Gentleman would take into his consideration. He wished to say a few words upon a subject not directly connected with the ques- - tion before the House, but as the Right Hort-Gen tleman hrtd alluded to it in the course of his speech, he hoped he might be permitted-to make a few ob servations upon it. The Right Hon. Gentleman, :tiler paying some compliments. to the Navy of this • country, said, he lead no doubt but tfiat Govern ment would keep up such a naval force as the re lative situation of this country might . require. In a keeping the Navy of this country in proper state of preparation, every thing that could liew, in the strongest manner, the gratitude of the country for the unparalleled services which the Navyk had ren_ tiered during the present War, would, in his opi nion, be one of the best means of attaining that objeft. There was one body of men of whose ser. vices nobody could speak without the highest ad miration, he meant the Lieutenants of the Navy ; their exerions, upon all occasions, had been such as to deserve the most liberal - reward from their coml_ try, particularly in. cutting out ships from har bours, and other exploits of that kind. After the conclusion of the War before last, he had submitted to the House a proposition respelling the half-pay of that valuable body of men. It was not, per haps, strictly proper that any proposition to that effed should come from any quarter but from Mini sters. They might perhaps feel it an unpopular measure to make any proposal which should break in upon their plan of economy.: but upon such an occasion other Members ought to share in the unpopulatity, if there was any, in making the proposition. But what would be the situation of that valuable body of men ? Now that peace was made, they would retire upon half-pay, of about sol. a year. He wished to ask whether it would accord with the feelings of the House, tha,t the Lieutenants of the Navy, after serving an ap prenticeship, as it was, as Midshipmen, of seven years, and, after all their gallant services, that they should retire upon sol. a year, when the rewards which were given in other quarters were considered ? And when it was also recolleled what a great in. crease had taken place in the price of all the arti cles of life, it was obviously impossible for an Of ficer to keep himself upon that sum.—There was also another point which was deserving of consi deration, viz, that there was not a Naval Power in Europe that would not be anxious to obtain the services of the Lieutenants of the British Navy.- , -- He knew that valuable body of men were sincerely attached to their Country, but they ought not to be left in a situation in which they could hardly exist.—He thought it right to throw out these ob servations, because..they appeared to hint to he well worthy the attention of gov i ernment and - of Parlia- ment. Mr. FOSTER .said, he had heard with the utmost satisfaftion the very able statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had introduced this subjed, and he now rose to ask, whether it• was his inten tion to propose to extend these wise and salutary re gulations to Irelapd. The Militia of that Country existed under four or five Alts of Parliament, made within the last eight years. ',The consolidation of these Ads he thought would 14 - as wise a measure in that Country as it would be here, because the Laws upon this subjed ought to be as .nearly alike as the airuation of the two Countries would allow of: he therefore wished to know whether the Right Hon. Gentleman meant to make any proposition to.that -effed. The SEcRETASY at WAR said, that he was glad the Right Hon. Gentleman had put him in mind of. a Subjeet which he had omitted to state in his former. speech...—Be perfcdly- agreed with the Right Han. Gentleman that the Militia ought to be put as nearly as possible upon the same footing; and he for one was ready to give every assistance in his power, either in his public or private capacity, to accomplish it, but he was afraid it cauld not be completed in :he present Session, hut he had great hopes of seeing it e !rifted in the next. M. FOSTER said, the Militia Laws of. Ireland required some alteration ! there were many imper fettions in them, which it would be necessary to get rid of. Mr. WICKHAM said, that those,' entrusted with the management of the affairs of Ireland, had turned their attention very seriously to this subjea. There were two or three points re. speding the Militia Law of Ireland, which re qtired the most serious consideration. The tia system in Ireland was a new one—the first ACt upon the subjeft was in 1793. Mr. WICKHAM then proceeded to make . observations upon the Irish Militia Laws, which We ilid'riat distinktly hear ; he concluded with statiit; that this subje6t could not be brought forwa'rd 'without due consideration, and therefore he entertained some doubt whether it could be brought forward during the present Session. Sir TV. ELFORD said, hPhad before introduced the subject of the Militia Surgeons, and he expected that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have alluded to the subject in his Speech ; arid he had not yet given up the hope that something would be done upon the subject. The SEC RET AR Y at WA R said, it was im possible to introduce the subject alluded to by the Hon. Baronet, in this Bill, but at all events, it would be impossible to give them the same half-pay as Surgeons in the line, because in that case it would lie almost impossible to get Surgeons for the Regular:, ; besides many of the Surgeons of the Mili. tia had Commissions in the Regiments, and had pay as such. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.. The Ste ETARY dt W then moved for leave to bring in a similar Bill for Scotland--which was granted.. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEOUBR said, that one of the Orden of the Day was, to take into consideration the Ads or 1786 and 1792, re spefting the Sinking Fund ; he should propose to defer that Otder till to-morrow, by which time 'he hoped that tile Papers- he had adverted to on a for mer occasion, would be laid before the House ; at all events he should'aotptiopose to take the• Report into consideration tilt theseiPapers were presented. The Order was then &denied till tomorrow. The SECRETARY at WAIL brought up the Mili tia Bill—which was read a fitst time. The SECRETARY ,at WAR said, he hoped the House would allow the Bill to be read a second time to-morrow ; he should then propose to have it committed, and that the Blanks should he filled up, after which . he 'should propose to let it lay over for a fortnight. The CH/b.:1C. 1 '1.1.0k of the EXCHEQUER' 7:111SVO. die Order of the Day for going into a Committee upon the Beer and Malt Duty Bill. Sir C; BUNBORY said, he was aware, that the difficulties must be great indeed, to meet the great expence incurred. He had always preferred, rather to give his assistance, than to oppose the measures of Government, but he was bound to watch over the iuterests of his Constituents. The duty now proposed, appeared to him to be oppressive, as it would nearly double the former Duty upon Malt. It would fall very hard upon industrious poor fa milies in the Country, who would, by this Tax, be ,depriyed of their home-brewed beer, which for:l . '6 l od' one of their principal comforts. But the etiiivbiildgibt stop there ; it would drive the 'La liiiatterAcilit'e public-house, where his morals would beinjuredby bad company, and his health impaired by spirituous liquors. Government had always been anxious, in their Taxes, to take care of the in terests of the Lower Orders of the People, but upon the present occasion, that system seemed to be departed from. He objeaed to this Tax, because , it would increase the price, and diminish the con. stunption of Beer, and drive the Poor to the use of spirituous liquors. It would confirm the fashiona ble prattice of drinking Wine at dinner, like Frenchmen, and afterwards like Germans. Ano ther effect of this Tax would be, to discourage the growth of Barley, and consequently, to discourage Agriculture : Upon these grounds, he opposed the SPEAKER leaving the Chair. Mr. WHITBREAD said, that having troubled the House upon this subject at considerable length before, he should not now occupy much of their time. This Tax he should contend was, in fact, a Commutation for the Income Tax ; but the operation of it would be entirely upon the Lower Orders, while the Income Tax was paid by persons in a different situation of life. The Minister had been obliged to provide interest for 97 millions this ye:ti l . 56 millions of which it hecaMe necessary to pro. vide interest for in consequence Of the repeal of the Income Tax; consequently, if that Tax had not been repealed, the present one would not have been necessary-. The situation of the Labouring Poor was not such as to enable them to pay an additional halfpenny, for their beer, and, therefore, in his opi nion., .somearother object of taxation ought to-have been resorted to. One of the worst effeas of this would be that of driving the Poor from a good and wholesome beverage,' and compelling them to have recourse to spirits. This would he the inevitable consequence, if they could not drink water. As a Financier, the Right Hon. Gentleman ought not to have resorted to this subject for taxation, '.because the consumption of the at tide had decreased. In the year 176 a, when the last duty was laid on, though the circumstances of the times were very dliferent, yet the consumption was very mnch di minished, and did not recover itself for three years. —At that time there Was an allowance made to the Brewers, for they were then thought worthy the protection of Government.—This TaX would dtive the Brewer to make the article lower than it was at present, if that•were, possible (a laugh ).—Gentle men might laugh, but it was no joke, at least not to him. He repeated that it was impossible to make a lower extract than wits now done. He trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman 'would reconsider the subject, and that he would withdraw 04 ' Bill. —He complained that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not, when he opened the Budget, fairly stated the result of his own calculatiobs.—The Right Hon. Gentleman had, by his own account, provided Taxes to a larger amount than was necessary ; in point of fad, he had proposed Taxes that would be sufficient for'a moth larger Loan, for he had pro.. . posed Taxes to the amount of 750,0001. more than was necessary to cover the Loan.He simposed.the Right Hon. Gentle Man would give the House - some explanation upon that subject.--But the RigheHon. Gentleman had wholly omitted Scotland in his calculations, and there were many other points which the Right Hon., Gentleman had omitted, so that, in fact, instead of having provided an excess of Taxes to the amount of 750,0001. he had actually provided an excess of i,500,0001. The Right Hon. Gentleman had farmed his calculation as if the consumption would not diminish, lint ii he Wouldlook to the last two or three years, when the price ofßeer was raised, he would see that the con stmiptiota had, at the same time, diminished. Tile price of Beer had remained. the same since the year 1-760, which was a period of 42 years;and he shOuld be happy to see it again reduced to the same . price, because he was sure the consumption would he very considerably increased. The Brewers had been enabled to withstand the late severe pressure, .by some improvements which had been made in the trade, and by some ingenious machinery which had been invented ; but the cad of this Tax would he most injurious to them. There was one effect which would he produced by this additional duty, which, though it might be advantageous to him personally,., yet would be ultimately most injurious to the trade, , viz, that of ruining all the small houses in the trade. Now, though this might be ultimately beneficial to Mtn, yet he hoped he felt too strongly for the Public Good, to receive any consolation froto,such, an advantage. There was one poiot which it was : - proper to state to the House, which was, that it had: become a praetice among the Brewers to get posses. sion of public-houses, Which made . thetulnerely the: channels for issuing out bad and unwholesome beverage to the Public. This plan of getting. pos... session of public-houses,, had never been adopted by the House to which he belonged ; but if this Tax was peraisted in, they would be obliged to do it in their own defence. There was one point of view in, which the Right Hon. Gentleman did oat appear to have considered it, and that was, that he would. gille a very great advantage to the private, over public Brewer, and over the lower classes: of , i,heaCeittimunity. A person who brewed for liin4elfrauld go to market and buy- his Malt anti lHnjis, at the same price as the ptiblic brewer, but the Lifter .had ;in additional excise to pay of; i.ss. 4d. , a barrel ; notG, as the. poorer classes of the CommtinitY . Ould riot go to market, and purchase their own Malt and 1-16 f is to - make Weir - own "Beer, they must bny it at the public; house; earl& then they would have to'pay the interest - of the capital Brewer - and the Publican. Another part of the. Right Hon, Getitleman's plan was, to deitroy the differincGbetweenSmall Beet and Table Baer, be. met in London ; in, this he was mistaken, for • r!e l , , cause he styposed :hat there was no sale for was a considerable quantity used in the hospitals wo d u . t , and the work-houses, and the increase of price he l el ; l p e p s r e o v v e e r d el o y i felt this b m y e t a l s l u em re . , particularly hard upon the Brewers, who contribut d • t so largely to the Revenue, and also because 1 oppressive upon the poorer classes of the people whom it would deprive of a wholesome beverage. The CHANCELLOR a : Trim EXCHEQUER said! w U hig - i n he the th l o v u h ;l l i e t , p ress e ; he had' hoped that the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat don ivould not have made his opposiT , to the Bill now before the House, one the ciiieSt io that the Si , E u should leave the Chair, but " 1 1 ;, he would have allowed the Bill to tavegune the Committee, as the best stage to-Consider, 11r . derail, the most 'minute objedions ; , and " fre e all that might have p ass ed t here, he shoul d ha ri , found the force of his ohjedions . still remaining, ,16e. might urge them upon a subsequent occasion, I'. progress of the Bill. The House would pac e° , , there was a considerable labour in going over and answering the observations of the Hon. ,which, however e be should proceed to do, so . f u ar e a? appeared to him to be really necessary. Th e ' . " (38.- ; stated, do Gentleman had, among other things, the Tax upon Malt, Hops, and Beer, was to be O r :: sidered as a Substitute, or indeed Commutation 11:). creiltleur r the Income Tax, now about to he repealed : tha t It was a Commutation, he h a d ove r . a nd over agar'rt nied. He said also; that this•was part u:a sion for the Interest of the 97 , 000 , 000 1. CaP: talf : an admission which went a greqr way cowgirl° Hoa swering most of the arguments of the o• Gentle man against it ; 5 6, 0°0 , 0° 01. o f which arose fr, ()r the defalcation by the Repeal of the Income 13 ' 11; but while the Hon. Gentle ma n expatiated til)°" /0 sum of 4,000,0001. to be raised for the Interest - the sun to be provided for, surely he could not f r il ; get that 2,000,0 0 01. of it applied to persons c '" le very different description' from those on whom said these Taxes Would bear heaVily, narnel.Y e -% ! Working Classes of the C o m m u n i t y. If a°?; tleman would lOok at the Bill for lavina additional duties by way of Assessed Taxes, he would see t '1. 1 4 the weight did not all fall on those for Wliw n e t 5 r Hon, Gentleman expressed his anxiety. L et - e P lf o se u r e ve lo d o f k or at th t e his matter fairly', and,then ask hialusb whether or not ili a g t i l l y er g o r r e t a ie t rs te o t f iti s e o r e n t e e fs m , i ba : d i r ix eri cret tion would be easily answered, r,fteriookill e e% ir i r lg op -l o to se u ( s t e t s o , i & x c i . n ; fp a ci t se d d duties imposed on Carriages,. on HorseS, 00 frepo rts - c 9 , '' ,o l3° n Eix));)olrotosk:itnngd: at the 4.- %. tax which he was indeed ready to adMit, f" ul4 way over all classes of the community, because it ° !it rated on so many articles of consumption, but 1 i" 1 ; were certainty to be defrayed, in the first'insta nc e ; by those . whoi were opulent, and w o uld not 01 'd the indigent consumer of the necessary article s e a life. Therefore he. might say,' before he 'advan c ry any further, that out of the 4,000,0001. nece s ' ero to be raised at present by Taxes, . 2,000,00 01 . f r 7 e f imposed dire4ly upon the optklent ; and even ° l3 ` e ia the other z,0c0,0001. the H on . Gentleman c 0 o f m no a t l i t ro n v o e p , s 7 the fad was otherwise, that Mu ch ti e c it would not fall upon the Rich,. The truth 0 ot s matter, was, that a large prop o rtion of the Duty Malt, and Beer, must fall on the Rich ; i large porti o n o f t h ese art i c l es were con stoned ees themselves, or were consumed in their dwelli n b c i which was the .same- thing as. to the operatino the tax with reference •to those who bore it' S it e thought these ob;ervations grew 'o ut ' o f the of the Hon. Gentleman ; not that they her e e „ C sary of theMselves, for the House''Must he aw 3 -140 these. things without being reminded of dial: . , Des trusted it would never be imputed to him, tP 3- 010 was less sensible of What was tine it feeling fu r eu e Poor.-;-This was a subjea on which be w e t e uy willing to dwell ;it was one t h at admitted of C eve declamatory poi n ts, an d h e h ope d h e s hould % o r forget what was due to the consideration of i t ' to did he wish any other Gentleman in that I-fotrseo.os forget it : the subj e ct. w as neare hi s h ea rt, but j e t d, to not within the stripe of any faculties he posf s i t,, devise means for def r ayi ng t h e Interesi.of,tne t he without bearing in some degree on that OW °, s o Community, Whieh; as it was hisearnese wi9'l' to it would have been his highest.,gratifica licil r jee spare. This Tax on Malt a nd Beer was " t e ' e eure ll up by Mill on the sudden ; 'it did occur to himrthet the pressure arising from the late scarcity and Malt circumstances were felt by the Public, tha L i eu al and Beer would afford a f a ir so hjed for aj""e o9 , taxation. From the year 176 0 to the yea r . /I (iC there was no increase of Duty on that artic! e; re ase. when it came to be cons id ere d how much i nc %v as took place on the price of M a l t an d flops, j ' t hat matter of astonishment as well as satisfaOic'n' they' the skill of the Bre w e rs h a d ena bled them - t hey' their Beer at the same price, for some dale) a e ., ' s et teC did in the year 4760 ; but even now it w as of astonishment, that Beer should have increas hich I° ' so very small a proportio n to the advance w The -taken place in all the other articles of li fe ' 'the • Hon. Gentleman s t a ted, th a t independe nt ° ess;„ its ohjedion he had to this Tax, on account of 1 " P by ing so much on the Lower Classes of S ( ' cie e tY r ' oh' the 'price of the article of Beer, he hail anotu e irge . jedion, that of its tending to increase tyre T i cr tl y i4 don of Spirits; undoubtedly a great and tote d It evil, if it should have that effed ; but h e tr u i bet ' would not, and the Hon. Gentleman sh° ° , wo nla eonsider, that the Duty imposed on ivla' r operate as a Tax on di ;tilled Spirits as weld that Beer. The Hon. G ent l e man had stated alse!puty" this was an unfortunate tithe fcir imposing ti l ad l' ay h • on Beer, because the "consumption of Beer IP ; much diminished, And that he was not J us iwa te 0 f taking the average which he took ( 11 ° :the prc.)bable produce of the Tax. 171e 1 0 4 1 s e the Trade had suffered severely duriPg u ` t a i v , t ity I Soo and So r. Unquestionably the q sitiera bly Strong Beet of r Soo and sot was . 41'n on the below the average of the eight years r the u po ing period,. but_ by the Pa peg .teecony 1 " 11 . 1 e of the House, it afepeared that wee r - 80 , r s - umption of the years Soo and ' , ear s Pr eight tide d! considerably "higher : than. the ceding the period to which he had last r. ust i6ett : aria ect, [Here he referred to the Paper itse • o b s er • 6. his observations frorn conten e tl. -- " ee e ant itf c` rg a also, that the Brewers made as la 4 1 1 t