The Sun. — London, England, 1807-01-13 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS, MONDAY, JANUARY 12, The Earl of BRISTOL and Lord Viscount WErr- WORTH took the Oaths and their Seats. Iri.the appeal " " Page and others v. Hamilton • and others," Mr.., Stephens was heard for the Ap.. pellarits. Farther coosidergtion 'deferred till to- In 0 r TO IV. On the motion of Lord . EI,DON, the further con-. sCcieration of the claim to the -Barony of Zottehe; was deferred till .11nrsday se'nnight, and the re speEtive agents' of the parties ordered to attend on that day. _ _ _ • I.'he Duke of NORFOLK moved to postpone the cooideration of the claim to the Barony of Howard de WAdeu till the loth of February. A short conversation ensued between Lords HAWKESBURY, Ei..noN, and the LORD CHANCELLOR, the result of which was, that the Noble. Duke NVithdrew: his MOtion. SLAVE TRADE. On the Motion of Lord GRENVILLE the second - Reading of the Bill for the Abolition of the Slave Trade was appointed for Friday se'nnight, for which day the Lords were ordered to be summoned. Lord 1 - IA-WKESBDRYadVeited to the two Reso lutions adopted by the House last Session—the one declaring that the Slave Trade ought to be abolished; and the other, to address his Majeity. to Make such C.ommtinicationS to Foreign .Powers as his Majesty should deem' advisable;' with the view of procuring: the Abolition of the Slave Trade: With rcspeet to the. second of these Resolutions,. he thought the House ought to be informed of what had.b6en done in pursuance of it, or whether any thing had beep done.. , This information he conceived not -Only those. Noble Lords who were hostil&to the Abolition; .but also — those . who Were friendly to that measure, would wish to have. There were five Powers who were materially interested in the. SlaVe Trade, namely, Portugal and..the United States of America, Fratve, Spain, and Holland ; Deumarkand Sweden - had also someiuterest in the Trade, but it was ofa subordinate nature. With respect to Spain and Holland,' he could readily conceive that there had been no-Means ofinalt, ingany Communication on the subjea to those Powers: As to France, he did not know whether, during - the late NegotiatiOn With the Government OrthatCoun try, there was any communication upon this SubjeCt.made . ,. atid' this was a point upon which be thought the House ought 'to be informed. So also with respea Jo the United - States of America, and Portugal, conirnuni ethions might:have been made, of which the House ought to be in possession : previous to the second reading of the Bill. His Lordship corieruck..4.l..by, moving an Address to his 'Majesty, praying his Ma jesty would be graCiously pleased to order to,be laid before the - House Copies of all Communications which had'passed bet Ween his MaicSty and Foreign Towers respetling the AbolitiOn of the Slave Trade, in consequence of the 'Address of that House. Lord ORENVILLE said,, he was not aware of any material obje6tion to -the Noble Lord's Metion. With respeet to France, the faa was, that 'durino - lhe late . Negotiation with the Government of that Country, communications on this subjet did take plice, to the production of which he sa v w no objeCtion. As to Spain and Holland, the Noble Lord had justly svpposed that no communications had taken place. With respea to Portugal, it was not thought expedient to make any. communication en the subjeet during-the Negotiation with France; and the fact was that none hadsince been, made. With respeCt.tOthe United States of America, communications had certainly passed during the Ne gotiation between the Plenipotentiaries of this coin try._and .the United States ; and this subje6t actually formed one of the articles of the Treaty which had: been signed by those Plenipotentiaries. Th e Only difficulty he had in acceding to the Noble Lord's motion - was, that this article could not be_ produced, as it was well known that a Treaty signed by Pleni potentiaries could not regularly be laid be - fore Parlia- . , ment until' ratified by the-respeaiVe Governments. A short conversation ensued between:Lords GREN ILLE and HANMESBURY as to the wording of the Motion. It was at length agreed to insert words leaving it to his Majesty to order to. be laid before the House such of the communications as his Ma jesty should judge proper. *The Motion, thus, amended, was agreed to. . Mr. Hobhouse, Mr. P. Moore,. and several other Members of the HouSe of Commons, brought up the Exchequer Bills - Bill; and Bowyer's Lottery Bill; which were read a first time. . , Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMO,VS. :MONDAY, JAN. 12. The Tweed Fishery Bill was read a second tithe and committed, to a Select Committee. . • Mr. hIniINING brou g ht in a' Bill to agrienci 'the three Aas. relative 'to the London Dock's.—Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to triorrow. Several Members were introduced and sworn, among whom we noticed„Mr.Jarnes Martin, Sir W. W. Wynne, and the Hon. Mr. Matthew. A new Writ was ordered,for the Borough of St. 11/lawes, in room of Sir John Newport, who has been also returned for Waterford, for which place the Right Hon. Baronet has made his eleation.—A Writ Was also Ordered for the Borough of Lest withiel, in room of Wm. Dickenson, Esq. who has been also returned for Sotnersetshire, for which place the Hon. Member has. made his eleaion. COLONEL CAWTHORNE. :Colonel PORTER rose to iitit,*ednes, day. se'nnight the Motion - of which he bad given notice for Wednesday next (on the Colo nel Court-Martial). This postpone ment 'the Hon. Officer stated to be necessary,' as many Memberi could not, in consequence of the Quarter Sessions, conveniently attend the discussion of this question sooner. Colonel CAWTHORIVE complained of the addi tiCpal suspence to which he.must be subjeeled by the proposed delay; and expressed, hii wish' that Ibis case should be 'decided one way or the other, as tcron as possible. , Colonel PORTER said, that his only obje& in, pro posing the delay was, in order. to insure 0411 at, tendance, which 'he deemed highly desirable upon this occasion, and which could not be looked for if the discussions were to occur while the Quarter sions were,pendipg. • - CoIone4CATKTHORNZ declared that he was `as anxious,. s any •Litan that the discussion 'of the.ease alluded to should have as full an attendance as possi ble ; fox without any reference to himself, he thotight' it' involved a question of 'very great moment. 'Put ting entirely out of view the cOnsideiation ofholiling any Member of that House, or any person what ever; 'whose character was - implicated; one moment more than was indispensi . bly necessary in.a state of suspense, he submitted to-the candour anditidgment .of the House whether there was pot something in the course of this proceeding which justified. corn, plaint. The Hon. Gentleman gave. Pbtice of this • proceeding, in. the first instance, in a way certaiUly very unusual, at a time when the Members were very little 'likely ,to, have any knowledge of it, namely, after the debate had closed- on Tuesday morning, and after .altnost , all the Members hackreiired, Not a word of it appeared in the Morning Papers, -in -Which accounts of the. proceedings of that House generally appeared and if it were not, for some Gentlemen. who happened to 'perceive the insertion of this , notice in'the book,upon the table, the thing would 'have been very little known indeed., • . • . • • Col. PORTER repeated the grounds which induced him to postpone his Motion ;‘ athiing, that . he .would certainly bring forward, the Motion upon Wednes day sennight: •• ' • - • - LOKD WELLESLEY. - ..•. • • • Lord FOLKESTONE gave notice Of his intention to move`on this day fortnight, for the reprinting of certain Papers which had been . printed last Session, relathe to one of the Articles of charge exhiui•ted against Marquis Wellesley. . • After a conversation between Lord CASTLEREAGH and Mr. WINDHAM, , • Lord HOWICK expressed - a wish . to know from the Noble. Lord (Folkstonej with what view he pro posed to bring forward the.i.Motion of which he had given notice, and what was the nature of the mea sure he meant, to found upon the Papers to which his notice referred ?. . Lord FOLKSTO NE replied, that •his Motion would- refer- to the reprititingof the several Papers tanne4ted with the 'Ohde Charge, namely, .ntimbers 3,4, and 5.- - With•respea . to any subsequent pro ceedihg, he believed that none 'waS likely- to be taken for some.time.,..The Hoese was aware that the Hon. Gentleman with whom . this business had originated was now a Petitioner, and until that . Petition was decided; it was not intended to ground any measure upon - - the Papers to which his notice related. But re.t, to prevent any delay hereafter,. it -was thouht .expedient that those, documents should be fully bi forethe House, in order, that if the Hoourable Gen tleman ',already alluded to should be, in` a situation to prosecute this important inquiry, he might be en 'abled to proceed at once, unimpeded by -the pro crastination which the printing of 'papers' upon this stibjeEk had so often produeed in the course of the list - Parliament; and-in order also, that if Mr. Paull should hot be in a.sitnatien to follow up this busi ness,. he himself (Lord Folkstone), or some more. - capable :person, .might be_ furnished with the means - , -of proceeding upon it. The Noble Lord conCluded with expressing .a belief that he bad fully.replied to the 'inquiry of the Noble Secretary of Stele,. and expressed a readiness tohfford any further infor mation in his power upon the satnesubjed. Lord HOIPJCK apprehended that the reasons stat ed by the Noble Lord could - hot be considered a suffi- . cient Parliamentary , - ground- for the.•proposition he professed to have in view. . it _indeed•did appear to him quite without precedent to make a Motion for the prodUCtion and piipting, of'certaih Papers upon which the Mover did not state that any i direa pro ceeding was to, be instituted, but - merely upon.the chance that another nian;not a Mernherpf that House, might ground some proceeding upon them: This, however, he felt was,hot the proffr time to' argue' the questidn ; but`he could not help observing, that course proposed must be attended with extreme hardship to the party concerned in the case to which :this notice referred; for that House was to be , called on to promote- the Circulation of the most , se vere attacks upon the.c.hara&er- of the Noble Person. alluded to. , The ; eifeas of such - publications' were easily to be estimated,' and he would submit whether they Could in fairness be acceded to, 'without a ny .precise statement that . a Parliamentary measare . would be founded upon them or' without any defi 7nition of the nature of such' measure.' The Noble • Mover &d not say that any farther Pkirliaentary proceeding would be taken upon those Papers; merely that it might ; and, really, he could net think that a sufficient ground fdr the•NoWe Lord's-intend , ed Motion. . ' . - • Lord FOLKSTONE w a s aware that this was not the proper.thne for any argument upon this subjecl, but he would, with the leave of the House, Make further reply•to the Noble Secretary of State. The obieet'Of the Motion of which he' had given notice could not be 'fairly stippOsed to involve, any harShness towards Lord Wellesley, as the Noble Secretary ,of State stated, any farther than as it professed to assist and facilitate the inquiry respecting that Noble . Lord's condual. But the Noble Secretary of State,seeniedto imagine; that there was soille probability the inquiry . might be relinquished, and that therefore the docu— ments his motion would relate to might not be ne cessary. Of this, however, he could assure the Noble Secretary, that the inquiry would certainly be . per-' sisted in ; for if no other person should offer, he' 'pledged himself, if a Member of Parliament, to follow, it up. The Papers he had described were; the Nople Lord 'observed, laid . before the House last' Sesston, and therefore there could be no just objection to their being re-printed, pariicularly . as the inquiry - Would be.proceeded Indeed, if the Honourable Gentle „man who originally brought it forward should. not be.enabled, from his presence in that House, to pro— secute it,. he would, rather thatilet it'drop, take it up himself: Those Papers would not, therefore, be suf fered to lay dormant on the table. It was for no' such purpcise that he intended, to move for them.— They were, indeed, already in the hands-of the greater. part of the; Atlembent, and in' general' circulation but in order to saiisfv the forms of the HOUse, it whs necessary to have them again laid on , thetable, and re-printed, before ar4- Parliathentary proceeding. could befounded upon tltetn.—Wli' n e`Aer his motion for this purpbsc'should be agrees , to-or not, he Could not guess,. He cslit.d not in,eed, anticipate the oppo sition manifested by the Noble Secretary. But Whe ther that opposition should be persisted in or not, whatever the fate of his opinion might be, that mo_ tiOn would certainly he made, and.. the inquiry to ithich. it related as certainly prosecuted. -k*ord FOLK STQIVE stated that an Hcin. Friend Of his Mr..Hussef, who was in an bdvaneed stage of life, ."wiShed, to avoid the consequences of a call of the Hopw; which he thought not improbable in the . present state of the country, and therefore requested him, to 'move that he shot :Id be granted leave of ab setiee for two months. The Motion being presented to the Chair, The SPEAKER observed, that there was no pre - - . cedeht for a Motion of this nature upon such'u ground as that stated. The usual custom was to ,granOertlporary leave of absence for a temporary .purpose. - „ • - Lord TEMPLE suggested to his Noble Friend, that' his obje& would be answered by acceding .to the conrse implied in the obserVations of the Speaker, and leaving out those words in the Motion which were objected' to. After some farther conversation between the Speaker and Lord Folkstone, the Motion for leave of absence to Mr. Hussey was agreed to. • • . OAK I3ARK. Lord Fo_KsToxi presented. a Petiticin from the Tanners of London against the second reading of the Oak Bark Bill. • • 'Upon the motion being made. for its lying on the table, Lord TEMPLE stated; that he had, upon tha subject of this Petition, taken occasion to commit- . nicate, as his duty presented to him, with the . tan ners.of London, among whotiA be found some ilarin prevailed, relative to the Bill before the House. Bitt the-result of this communication served fully to con vince his mind .that that alarm was not well founded., Such indeed was his opinion:even before the couter 7 _ . ence took place. But.still he felt it not only his duty., but.his inclination, to consult any class of men in terested in.a :question of this nature—to consider their opinions, to examine their objeftions,-an'd eVeri . fo pay attention to their 'prejudices. He 'would, therefore, propose to allow full time . for itlqi*ing farther upon this subjed, in brder that the grounds upon which the PetitiOners rested their obje6tions to theßill before the-House might.,be...amply investigated. For that purpose he would-move, that the-second reading of the 'Bill should be. postponed till: this day.fortnight. In-the *I - mei - i:n the case might be diligently examined; and , as the Oak. Bark Trade was suspended, at least until May, no: injurycould result from. the proposed delay .to those concerned. for., the carrying of, the Bill.. . . :The Petition was ordered to lie on' heTable;-and Lord Temple's- motion for the second 'reading of the Bill on this-day fortnight was agreed to: • The toi Million Exchequer Bills Bill was read a third time and passed. • IRISH ELECTIONS. . Sir JOHN IVEIVPORT rose, pursuant to no tice; tb move for leave to bring in a Bill for amend ing the Aet of the 42d of his present Majesty, for regulating the Trial. of Contested Ele6lionS in Ire-. 'land. The Right Hon. Baronet observed, that there were several provisions lin this .A6l which_ he pro posed to alter, and which were of such a nature as the House: 'must feel- admitted 'of no 'delay that could be consistently avoided in passing the Bill he felt it his duty to bring forward. There were some points• in the Ad ,he proposed to amend, which he thought it right to mention to the House as proofs of the necessity that existed for such Amendment. In the Ad referred, to, there was a provision for swearing the Commissioners appointed in Ireland to•examine Evidence, &c. upon the subject of Elec tion Petitions ; but, stratigeas it might seem, there was no' provision for swearing the'Clerks who ailed under Such Commission. This omission, which he meant to supply, was the more eXtraordinary, as the whole of the proceedingSdepended on the accuracy_ of these Clerks, upon , - tihose written itaternent of the evidence taken before them, the Committees of that House were-to ground, their deeisions there- quence by his opponent. This provision, he be , would serve to dim'nish, if not to remove, an evil - tco often pra&ised, and which the Or t of litigation only could prompt tnei to iuHiEt, upon their adversaries. Leave was given to bring in the Bill. Upon the Motion of General IVALPoLiz,. who stated, that, in consequence of some informality in the proceodings, the application he had to make to' the indulgence of the House ,was become neces sary, it was agreed that the Petitioners against the return for Londonderry should have the time for entering their recognizances to prosecute the said Pe• lition. enlarged till Friday next. ; THE ARMY. Lord Cif 87:LERE4GH rose, agreeably to.notlce, and expressed his happiness.to find that the produc tion of the Papers for which he was about to 'move would experience no opposition. He was happy, be- . cause it must be more satisfilEtory to his own mind, and to the mind of the House alio, rather to post pone any argument upon the subjeol to which these Papers referred, until they should be laid upon tho table, than to be obliged,to enter into sUch .arga rnent without any such documents. But that ob ligation did not now 'exist- 7 k being agreed to grant these documents he was discharged from the neces sity of arguing the question at present. He had, therefore,.only to state the points upon which he thought it his duty to require information with re gard to the amount of our efficient force. The in formation respeaking the regular army, militia, and artillery, he should only demand from the 'date of the last returns laid before the House, namely the 1 sr, of March, 11306, and from that period to the Ist of Jan.. 1807, he should call for the- return of effeetive force: - TI•: next point would 'relate 'to the sources fore such , Clerks might have it in their power, by rather to be colletled by the personal experience of such Gentlemen as had opportunities of observation, than to be looked for from auy 'slips of paper or official report. The next point upon which the Noble Lord • said he felt solicitous to be informed. was, with regard to the general training of the peo ple.. On -a former evening he took occasion to 'ap ply for some information upon this subject to the • Right Honourable the Secretary at War but he must fairly confess, that he derived no satisfatirorr whatever from the sort of general reply -‘Vhich -the House had heard from that Right Hon. Gentleinan. For that reply seemed to amount to this only, t hat- • nothing, haa - yet been done in execution of the. gaining Bill, and that the Right-Hon. secretary's- mind was unsettled as to whether any thing at all would be done. the suppression or substitution of a single . word, to The Noble Lord described the., mo - tion which .he meant to make upon this point, defeat the whole proceedings upon an EleZ:hon Pe tition. Another point he proposed to amend in the Aa was this :--According to that .A4l no man eouid ,he a Member of a Commission to inquire into the merits of anv eleaion at which had 'toted. But ihii , prohibition he proposed: to extend to those also who I,vere .erititled to vote 'at such elegy` ion ; and that be thought necessary to answer the objeEt of the former provision ; for, as the law stood, a man•en. titled to vote had only to decline voting, in ordw to qualify himself to become a.Cornmissioner, as was often the rase in con Sequence of compromise. with some of the Candidates. Thus the' spirit of the law was evaded. But this_evasion was not confined' to the Commissioners ;• it extended also.to the Clerks, and therefore to them also he should extend the :proposed prohibition. There was another new pro, vision which he thougbt it necessary . to introduce into the- Bill he; should have the honour of sub- and'proCeeded, to state the course he proposed ta 'pursue when the several Papers for which he was about to move should be laid before the House. If those Papers afforded no proof of the superior, dB-A* cacy bt the Right Hon. Secretary's military plan, ne could not of course expel that those who felt for the Country's- safety and military charaaer would permit a plan' to go on.undisturbed which changed the foundation upon which our military system had so long and so securely rested ; that they would suffer. that change to continue, which, upon the Right Hon. Gentleman's proposition, %vas introduced l a st Session in - to - the Mutiny Aet. • If it should ap. :pear that the new root which thq Right Hon. GeDl tleman .had -then planted, instcad of producing an _immediateincrease, or procuring a permanent sup ply to the army, was likely to prodUce ..I,6con tent.and ultimate weakness, surely Parliament would not hesitate to have that root torn up. Vhat the: Imitting to the ttoilsi—the . objea of which would 13P '1.5 reno;ejdonliti existing as . to the power of a CoMrnittee'vf that Hodse to call for the produc tion e*any.books or .other . documents which might have been laid- befOrp the Commission in- Irerand..• • AnOther ...Athendment. - he had 'to propose would re late to the whence of Clerks'. At present they were . .allowed at the rate .0( sixpence every seventy-tw - O *ads, which gave them an interest in protraaing. the inquiry ;.andit had happened that such protrac ' tion had extended so far; that although the receipt of the CoMmissioners, who were Barristers, did not exceed .t>.001," yet that of the ,Clerks amounted no less than 8001.. But it was his intention to re dnce the allowance to the Clerks ftom sixpence to threepence. for every' seventy-two Word's, which would of course reduce their interest in the protrac tion-of the proceedings. The last point . of the pro posed change' the Right Hon. Baronet stated to be the natural result of a ease which had occurred in Ireland, - where between •three and four hundred votes,.•forming almost the Whole of thine who had polled at the Ele&ion, had been objeeled to, 'and of course taken to attend the Commission at a consi derable expence to the ,party interested, although Distk more than 50 or Go of those votes had ever been inquired into at all. The remedy he should propose for this evil would be—that when a party ebpas to any voters, the specific grounds . of the oittjeaion shall be stated ; and unless such obje&ion be'sustain ed by evidence, it shall be declared frivolous and vexatious by the Commission, and the party ad vancing such frivolous and vexatious ohjeelion Papers to which his Motion referred Might shew-ho' would -not say, but; unless he were at present very ill advised by those who - were well competent to judge upon military questions, the change alluded 61..4 in the Mutiny A& would be found to !hoe had .a mischievous operation, and to threaten more mis chief if it were not removed: and than system re stored to which our army was indebted for its . prosperity, its strength, and long-established charac ter. The Noble Lord-concluded with moving tor a monthly return of the effeetive amountoi our id.. gular force front the ist of March, 1806, to the Ist of January, 1801, distinguishing the amount of the, several corps, viz: infantry, toot guards, cavalry, gar rison and veteran battalions, provincial and local corps, black corps, foreign Corps, including the Ger man Legioll,'' men at the depot; 4S:C. and also dis. tinguiSliing: the number of i)ur force at home, and abroad, with a .monthly return of• the English and Irish militia. Mr. IVIATII;1211 had no objection to grant to , the House every information- that- could be desired upon this subject ; but, he had very serious objec 7 . Cons to lot:.. such informatiougo ; .. abroad as might reach the enemy, and it was notorious that any thing' publicly laid on the' table of that House was ex. , ' posed. to the danger,of such 'communication. Upoet these grounds of the propriety of acceding to some parts of the Noble Lord's - iVibtietr, he thwit o; , jetti tbr it would go to expose the distribnt* of our milt ; racy foece, which \vas precisely the thill•with which they might iot . to be made 'acqu'ainted. in the No.. ble Lord's Motion too this AccOunt was to be ()bilged to pay the expQnce incurred in conse• trlonthly,:wilich rendered it • more Cbjectionable.--• from which that force was kept up, in Order to en able the House to judge whether certain induce= meats, which were. last Session so much relied on as the means of ziugmenting our army by encouraging recruits, have had the effeets so contidergly promis ed. Also, whether such means are to be depended, upnir as a certain and efficient resource for the sup ply of our army? Whether the resource now trast,d.. to-be adequate to maintain that rank and charaCter in our army, which ought to be lookedfor, according to the obvious military policy of the. Country ? those important. considerationS it was his particu lar desire to, turn the attention of the House, and having obtained a return of the general state of the army, he should take leave to remark on any fair subjecl of animadversion that state might pre sent,, and to state' the means that appeared to hin3 best 'calculated to maintain - our military strength. With a review of our regular: force be would natu.- rally conneet the means 'adopted to secure our in"- ternal defence, and of course look tier an account of the Volunteers. Upon the subject of this descrip tion of force, there was much information which he fe't desirable to be laid before : .the. House, but which, perhaps, was not quite attainable, namely; the state of the general organization, spirit, and dis ciplinkat present preVailing among that bOdy, and how far they ; have been aife6ted by the new ar rangements introduced among them .by the AsAoflast Sessions. This, however, was a kind of information_ •