The Sun. — London, England, 1813-01-06 00:00:00

. . . . . c ilelegatetl.' The mode' in, which the re" - tn. was adopted _teas conformable to the usage Ite Court of .Directors on solemn occasions . , tely, after it report f ront a Committee of the, de Court, which always require . ; signature l s ; w „ which, i n t h e present iuStance was su ~ bed b y every Director. . • - .. : Ve trust, my Lord, th at t hi s exp l anat i on o f the . Isure alluded to, will wove satisfactory to your ilship and the other Mei:niters of hi . 1 I..yesty'.6 /eminent ; and wh il e we return oar sincere nowledgments for the attention with which represeutations have been listened to, in the ions interviews with which we have been ho— lred by your Lordship and his • 4'l.lajeity's Mir , tern who attended, we hope, .at the same to ad perfectly acquitted of any design, either.to i'ent or embarrass a full and deliberate discus- It of the great interests as stake. t is matter of deep cOncern to us to find th 'l t . Majesty's Minister's seem-still to adhere•to thti acipl e of openinw i the out-p of thellititet %dont to the importatio n of orts commodities from ILL We have already, in . our letters f Abe II and 2 9th Ap r il last, verily stated the da o ngers t must result to the Company, from so great an argernent of the privilege in Eastern cove r to 'British merehants. We presume to think r objeetions to that enlargement. have not been !Timely that ; and we have to express concern felt by the Court, that no column atiott has yet been made to them of thOse, re sentations which first led his .Majesty's Mi.". teis to entertain, and which induce them still /Where to the opinion, t , will.be hest consulted, that the public • inte by not confining the port trade froth the East Indies to the port of anion. It would oce asion much s ati s f ac ti on t o Court, should such a communication have the .•et of obviating their objections, • even in part, a4nessure, which the most imperative ciinsider olls alone cold(' have itifluenced too op- . se; and were it u n f ortunately to fait in produe- CtinS eifeet,it is nevertheless desirable, that the airt of Directors, shall have an opportunity of lit:wing' the queition with all the intelligence It. cats be h e to hear upon it, • • Your; Lord ,ip h4B, ineed, been pleased to favour•tis witli a Lel summary of som e of the arginnents used the Merchants on this subject---..-argurnents, ' most' own,. not iii the least convincing to '• and we assure ourselves that in advert g to them, Your Lordship does not mean at the *Company shouhl be concluded, or eir i nterests a ir f a t e fate determined, by wlett blase NVI!O oppose .c:mose to atly ; . it e e ; although their presentations: appear to have so far Mu eed . his Alajesty's INTioisters, as to lead cot to think, ' that the merchants. " have 1 4In to as much. liberty of trade as they can Joy, without injury to other they na mal interests." ln those interests, we may pre me, are eomprehended both the consideration the poblie revenue, tuld the maimenance of the UL India Company. But what that extent 'of ide ti, " which can he granted with satety to one interests," is still a question undetermined. re confess that the reg ; illations contemplated by s: Majesty's ALnisters, so far as your LordAip. •a been pleased to explain them to ' - tis, appear by portents Calculated to remove our fears. The inparative interest which the Public and the impany have in prevetaing the, smuggling of !I> :was* described in our letter of the 29th April : and though it be true, as vour ordshiP observes, that the stake of fire p . l 1 . this Collcern is rt • lc unterically };seater than that of e. Company, yet the importance of the Coln tny' inferior stake is, to them, infinitely greater :in would be to the public the importance of the s r s the revenue, might sustain ; because as mat ,s now stitad the eQuipaily l' ' " lave no certain de al but the China trade, for al to' cieir subsistence. w . tivesQurces esserl7 L . .o not the least testion, that his Ala' testy's Altnisters would be loran, • khly disposed to frame additional regulii (lnets to prevent smuggling tea, should those now . outemplation be tried; and h fit i d ite..ll 1'3E14. '3E14. itut, besides that ' e (l t 1 . we extreme_y distrust Ile pritetieuhilit • y of preve smuggling to a lige ext a , tot, where the t ,Ming • mptations would be so Nat w . e must entreat Lordship 1 his 1;61..qy11i, w.. , .. • .. . Four ant misters serious ' , add 1 ) . 11 . , - ly• . to consider what L. le• %no, 1 ,1 . tiolt of the Cont an if they vines a Charte • P . Y' Charter upon no better terms than now proposed i , d , it .1 , e fd du . Upon trial, 5 lould Unti, that their (I, anti 014 tt commercial income i fail-' rovided for, Or i'til. dividend . should be. iiii r hiss stock would int iediatelv fall 4, cniTency ; of tle . ir credit would be dintinisited':"- . artkidarly, woitileir ktir,tit'S,, 1U their pkiynteilts, he impeded ; general alarm nit tlissatisfaetiott( ' liti great establis‘hinill all parties connee . ted svith ;0414 be , a 1.1... es ..tenc.would be felt ; and there t gain, w i,, , , n 7,„ 41 Y tor going to radiomen . j. )t dd i mve bt,,,1, great, perhaps . irretrievable, ht; xeco.ti v e - i l . ex , " rie uccd. It is the dutY ( 4. okrl ..,:. ;,.,. , . (my. pi the Co an .to curry ',.%.4.1!i [(award tet fr 11 MP. 1 el ta ~,i,iori ag.„6„,,t :r . contingencies, an 1 e tea► :. attd we must beg rive,' to add, that what I:Ny oni m , Oi.. th e , ever ri•.;hts the mere' a no n ~ri114 " ; it eaunot t e I ti a , t , i ; n , n be pleased to -betow ., essions v loci' ~ 1 • )- - 1- 1 4 , ahle to make cone cl;m3, • i,y I{Cll hbould ti a • a Co mp any `'l) ,ire t i t i, ( ,. 1 ~. , le. tin., _ li e i )1 . . , t 1,41. in empire, and who are as much • fler'i of th e e h. f , trade in e niph . •le seats of Latropean . e, as they ere of their freebolds in Loti on. Wit t • re Vec adia, i f tto t h e resort of• Europeans to ' * o nr L ) t s'e do not misunderstand the scope of 4 at tt ' .I."lliP's observation, it seems to imply, oeir numbers might be in proportion to the. x Irma trad r a front this country. lf, indeed, they ,`:'l,.! l e to be regulated by this settle, our apprehen s Would be the less; but we have no difficulty. re a t e n k ,,...!,, we dgillg, that in addition to all our other t•-•1.--,uts against admitting importations to the i i i,„ l "•ts, we think that the granting of this pri .•le Ivt'llid increase the spirit of rash specula n‘,)ll front Oreat 13ritain and Ireland, and 1 hereby , ,'lllluber of aaventurers in search of fortune in 4 ' 14 i for it i rut s to be rententbered, that those ad, urers would mattritily seek for new estamioh. 'etas, even out (of the Company's territories, 'toil !: lei'. endeav our to acquire real prop er ty. 'hi , ut, my Lord, thi s i s on l y, one of many points d) requir e particular re solutions ; and at . tlic dge ttt which we are non- arrived in the nego ' 4oo a, we cannot but state, to your 14ordship the.anxious Wish of th e Coto to' t j€ mutt Will be tiv'ci.loolteA either' by . the Legisla , ntiainted with the wholesplan which his Alajesty's , tare or the Ministers of the Crown. G'avernment may !rave it In contemplation to re. , If the Government of India cannot-be carried on. commend to .Parliament for a IteneWal 'off the With safety to the Constitution, except through East Muria Co t npany'.. Chatter : *biding such , the interv'ention oldie Company, the 'propositions amendmentsin the system of the Company's ter- Of the Ci'wt of'Direetors, whateVer they mily be, ritorial government and admiiiistration, asi past inuAt unconditionally be admitted. • .• experience may have indicated the . regulations It vi,ll he for Parliament to determine whether deemed necessary for promoting . the discipline' the nation is in this respect without an . alterna agd.etficieney of the :Irmy ;. the amount of tive, or %vhether, if a change of 'system Aiolibl be force which his Majesty, may be ,empowcred to r e ndered necesary by the decisions of the East maintain in India at the expellee of the Company; Cornp:my, measures might not be taken for and the provisions which iniq be thought requisite ',,ppeningthe trade, and at the s:une time providing for settling,the relative power of the Board of Coat- such an Administratioo of the Government of In missioners and the Cours of Directors. Thongh dia, as might be fottriel compatible with the in= these topics were, specifically mentioned in the terests and security of the British Constitution. letters from Lord Melville to the Chairs, of the I have the honour to .be, Gentlemen, 30th September, 1808, and the, 21st March lb 12, Your obedient and faithful humble Servant, ll the Court arc in great measure, uninformed u the cKiNGIIAMSHIRE. of the arrangements, in regard to them , which his The Chairman and Deputy Chairman of East India Company. 11Iajesty's Government may have in view to pro pose. And we intreat, also, that your Lordship will enable us to lay b clove the Court of Directors, and ultimately the Proprietors. in :my shape that you may judge -fit, the information, additional to that of the merchants already solicited, on which the determination of his Majesty's Ministers rests, as to the extension of the. trade to the outports, and their intentions upon the other parts of the ar rangement to which we have now adverted. 'l'be requests we now make appear to us the more reasonable, • from the weighty intimation conveyed in the concluding part of your Lord ship's letter. It ,brings into view '(to repeat an expression used in our letter of the 15th April), " questions qfthe last importance to the stfiety of the British Empire tit India, and of the Britiwh Consti tation at home," This is a solemn subject for the country as well as the Company. lf, indeed, it should ever come under actual discussion,' we have that confidence in the equity and wis dom of the nation, that, notwithstanding all present chunours, they will wish to do the Company. justice, and to guard all the other great interests which must come into ques tion. But prepared as we shall be, if forced into this situation ,to maintain the rights and claims of our : constituents, we must yet express; our hope, that the Company will not be reduced, to the bard alternative of thus having to contend for all that is dear to them, or to accept a Charter on terms which will not - enable theta to execute the:part bi therto assigned to them in the Indian system.—We have the honour to be, irni-Lord', • Your Lordship's most obedient Humble servants, ROBERT TIIORNTON The Right Hon. the Earl of litickinghomshire, &C. After this letter bad been once read, on the mo on of the Charman, it Was read a second time. The Cit.IIIIMAN then said, that the Directors of the Co►npany Were always anxious to hear the sen timents of the Proprietors, but from the import ance of the case then under consideration, they were doubly anxious to have their opinion on an occasion of such. importance. But though they were desirous of. having the matter discussed then, they did not wish that any :measure should be determined upon hastily ; because Many Pi oprie tors were absent, whose attendance could not be expected on that day, on account of the lateness ot the hour at which the letter of the Marquis of Buckinghamshire had been received, The Court of Directors would Oder no opinion on that day; but he need scarcely say, that their sentiments on the subject of the ienewal of their Charter were not altered. Mr. RlGay expressed his sense of the ability and earnestness with which 'the Directors had cr n ducted the negotiation. He was sure that the , Propriators participated in the regret expressed by the ,Chairman at the present state Of the ne gociation, which was curtail - 11y most uniavour able, He .couldnot re'rain from expressing his indigntaion at the letter which had been last read. It was cettainly very strange that Ministersshould , retu , e to give information on a matter of stieb importance. The proceedings of his Majesty's Alin isters were -ery, extraordinary, and by the mea sure which they meant to propose to Parliament, nathely, the opening of the trade of India to the tintports•of the kingdom, th ey acted against the opi nion of Lord ThurlOw . , Aralitt, and Lord Cam den. These statesmen had always been of opinion that the Charter of the Company shOtild he renew ed. Ile conceived that it was by no means im rilitie to give vent to feelings. of indignation, in such a case us the present. Ile would-ask what' the East India Company had stone to provoke the Country to such treatment ? What bad they done to draw down upon their heads a Measure so ruin ons to theue , elve: and to the , country 1 Ile 'con - eluded by saying that no measure ought to be adopt., cd on the present occasion without the most Ma ture consideration. Mr. ItonueT Tit ORNTON said, that his opinion on the matter under discussion was recorded and knoWn. He was anxious to deserve well Of his constitneuts: 'The tipening of the India trade so the wit-ports of the kingdom would he at tended with ruinous consequences to the Com ' pany ; but those who - petitioned for it• would he themselves the greatest, sufferers. .He would glad to know what the- . panacea was which could produce such benehinat effects to the country trout this extension of cominerae ; yet the Company acre attacked and required to give tip that which is of vital consequence to the youn=, Irv, and an object of envy to our enemies. It was known that our enemies euvied our ships, colouieS, and commerce. Rut if the trade of India was . thrown open to the out-ports of the kingdom', in stead of ships, there would be only revenue cutters ' and smugglers. There would, 'indeed, he coloniza‘ tion, but there would be alsO the risk of eltimately, losing all our I ndian territories, and the cud of this commerce would be the ruin Of those who petitioned lor it: -He hoped that the Deputies from several out-ports; who had come up last year, would not persuade the House of Commons to sacrifice the Company to a mercantile experiment. Ile would ask what the period was when they were called upon to make this sacrifice ? A star had beamed forth in the North which might lead to peace. What then would be the consequence it', on the first dawning of peace, the downfall of the East ' India Company shOuld he announced ? If the re sult of the neimehition should be as unfavourable us it was feared, he would advise the. Proprietors rtt once to Wind up . the , whole affairs of the Com pany, and to shut the great shop, of . the' India House, and to attend to their private business. This would certainly be better that to have their affairs go to ruin, and not to be able to pay their dividends. (Signed) le Chairman then informed the Court o thet the Only . other doCuthent to he read was the Letter of the last night.sicleof the Board of Controu l, received late letter was then read— India Board, Jan. 4, 1813. letter had theeliOnour to receive your of the 30th alt. and proceed to convey. to PM the sentiments of his Majesty's Government, HS far as It would. !WWII vii:Allf.3 Wider present circumstances, to continue the discussion. With respect to your obsereation, that the re- Presentations which hulked his Majesty's Go vernment to form their opinions Upon the subject of the ex t ens i on of the import mule have been withheld , froM the Court of Directors, and that your objections to that extension have not been adequately answered; you must allow me to avail ' m yself of this occasion to apprize you, t hat although his Majesty's Government has shorn tt strong dis position to enter into the most frattic.and unreserv ' tat explanations with the Court of Directors, they have not felt that it was within the range of their duty to engage in a controversy upon the points at issue :----That duty has) been suilieiently dis charged, in stating, for the information of the Court of Proprietors, the condition upon which they were prepared to submit a proposition to:Par liament for the renewal of the Charter, accompa nied, by such reasons as are conveyed in the:com munications they have authorized me to utake. I can, however, have no •dilctilty in ac iputint- , ing you, that the'claims of the Merch ants con fleeted with the ont:ports have not been brought before Government by written docments, that they have been urged and tliscas . ied at personal conferences with iodividuals' interested in their success, and that you have already been informed of the grounds upon which they were supported; but that it does not appear to his Maiesty's Go , vernmeot, that you can be warranted in expecting that they should give a more partienlar account of the arguments adduced at these conferences. 1 may add, however, that as theMendiants and Manufactttrers connected with the out-porti, con sidering themselves entitled at the enirotion,ol the (Antoci. of the Vatit .indite Company, to cat or on that trade from which they had been excluded for a limited time, had entered into tEStatenient of their case by Petitions presented to Parliament in the: coarse of the last Session, you 'thay'obtain from those records that further Information which you appear . deSirous to possess. With regard to those points to which you hail: alluded as requiring particular : regulation, the 31i • nisters of his Royal Highness the Prince Regent having signified to yoit, thationsiStenfly with their sense of public duty, they Can 'submit no arrange ment to Parliament that does not include an ex tension of the Import Trade, and the Court of Di - rectors having, with the knowledge of their Opi nions upon that point, by their Resolution Of the the 18th tilt. declined to reconitnend to the Court of. Proprietors to agree to such an extension, it would seem premature to enter into details until that question shell have been finally determined. Yon are apprized of the disposition of his Ma jesty's Government to adhere to the present sys tem of Administration in India, and 1 ant not aWarc, that if 'circumstances should admit of it:4' COntitllllnee, it would be necessary to propose way: i c i a ri r s r e yi t l i l .o g ir i t t e i i t e ito op e e x n e h e ig ut t i .1 7 material alterati on i n • the existing provisions f or the 'trade. , - , except such us may justice of P a rli amen t, Thtt onfitlehee yon express in the wisdom an" he disappointed , cwt will, I ant persuaded; the eonsideratit our it to be su pposeti,, t i o at us ii i ! , your own wortl ) s3,!:` th l e m Sa g f r e e t l y tt of tl i t t i L st lritiAli' ri" d' ' ' -- Pire in India, and this British Constituti o n at Mr.•Setjeant IgNING entered into a calcula tion of the number of persons employed -by the Companv. There were not :less than 3000 la 7 bourers and 300 clerks employed in the district in which the India House was .sitnated. The &Ml.' lies of these, computed at. •1 to each labourer, made a population of 14,006 or 15,000, and in cluding the families of elerks at the same rate, ►►►atte about 20,000 persons in that district who i;.ti►ied a livelihood in the service of tie CoMpany. ,Government should consider what would be the con Sequence of depriving such a number of per 7 sons of their means of subsistence. 'l'l►e eotise 7 quence therefore of opening the trade of India to the •cllit-ports would _he to 'impoverish that quarter of the,Metropnlis, and to ruin the great establishment of the Company. lie hoped that Ministers would take this into consideration, Mr..K. thought that the thanks of the Proprietors were due to tin. Directorti, for their c o aduptonithe present " ticeaSiOn, and during the whole negoeiation. lie could not forbear from remarking ott the letter whit+ had been laq'read; First, it was to be considered whether' it could be anAwered at all with propriety ; secondly, ther the Company could agree to the prociNtlingi of Ministers. On looking back, he found that had always been intended that the Charter of the Company silo* be perpetual ; and only to be taken.away ott certain grounds. Before Minis ters took any Measures tourarck proliferating the renewal of the therter, they' ought to have shown itt whataspect the condition Of*.it could be 'de trimental to the country. If nothing this to he. left to the Company but the trade of China, 'it would 'he-better at once to throw up their Chattel' and to require n fair remuneration from. Goveru ment ,Ministers should consider the number of seamen furnished from the ships of the Company to the Navy The. Petitions presented from a' number of the out-ports weeethe effect oflgeo imeance.' He himself knew that the Mayor of a certain town, who had come up to petition against • the renewal of the Charter of the Company, being asked why that town had petitioned against it—the answer was, beeause other towns had done the same.. Ile believed 'that malty of the other Petitions rested on no better grounds. He hoped that the Chnirinanand Directors WOllla continue their exertions, and answer the letter of the Mar- , chili . of BectinghatuShire in a proper way. Mr. GRANT, P.expressed his surprise at the tenor of the letter 1 which had heen last re ceived from Ministers•on the subject of the re newal of theCharterof the East India Company. The question was, whether the Compauy should throw themselves on the protection' of Parliament, against the designs 7 of.the Executive Government, Who seemed to be so hostile to them ; or whether they should make the experiment of opening the trade of India to the out-parts of the kingdom. It is said that this matter is open, to 'discussion in Parliainent. How' could this be, when it was un derstood that the matter was settled in Parlia— ment long ago ? There was a limit to the expe diency of coutinning the AdinielAration of India, it: the form in which it did then exist ; trod be translated the proposition into this limit. But what was the limit? the trade of the out-ports.. They should be too zealous in their duty it they carried their attention to the welthre of the out ports against the rights and happiness of ;;;.) mil liens ()linen. Ile would ask (taking it in con nection with past history), whether there was any ground for the rejection of that measure ? Was it no ground that encroachments had 'been making fora number of years on the rights of the Company ? Wes it .no ground for opposing the measure, that there should be a thee for putting a stop to those encroachments ? Ministers had. brought these, enceonehmeets to an unprecedent ed height. They had turned the siege into 'a hhwkede. These uggressitins, he remarked, cn crunched upon the funds of the Compauy, by which they could discharge their debts. All the arguments of extension of trade and of looomotion were eXideetly false, and had been urged -with more extravagance than prudence. It was the nature of things' that power should be encroach ing. But what was the end of these enemata,- molts ? It was an :meek wpon the vital pies' whieb supported the Company. And al though it was proposed.,to leave the political ad- Ministration of India in the seine State yet the f oun d at i on o f the Company would te sapped, and the whole fabric would collapse hao ruin and then, what would Le said ?, . Why, 014 the are rengements which would cause this ruin had' been voluntarily rteceded to by time Compatiy. The si tutition in which they were, Might be character ised by. the simile of their being itt check-mate with all their m'en upon the board.---lie knew that it was - commonly said that the Company were ac tuated with no spirit to do good to the people of In dia, or of England. It had been said, not openly in deed, but ignorantly, that any good which had been done by the Company to the poeple of eithereoun try, was the result of chance, and done by the genius of those men who hod been in the employ ment of the Company. He did not forbear to express his regret at the disorderly proceedings which had taken place at the commencement of the government of the Company. But these were speedily corrected by the measures Adopted by the .Directors at home. The public were torgettul of the services of the Company, when by their means, the trade survived the attacks and invasions o f an enemy in India. Yet the Company at home got no merit for this. Was it no praise to the Coin tiny to have successfully opposed the a ttack s o f • France ? When Lord Clive went out and gave peace to India, was lie not chosen by the vote of the Company at home? 'When he detected this' Outies at Celcutta, it was itOne by 'order of the . Company at home, and he could point out on the records the directions. of the Company to that effect. When .Lord Cornwallis adopted the means so much praiaetti: by means of which the condition of the Natives of India was so' much improved, this was dime by order of the Court of Directors. Whence did the acts'of all these men proceed ? Not front the emanations of their own geni us; ,but from within the wails of that House, now ornamented with their effigies. Wert all those evils' which had been mentioned to he brought on for a commercial experiment ? If the East India Company he reduced, great vantages would 'fleet* to the Constitution of the Couetry. It bail been. said, that ell the proceedings of the Company then under die t cttssion were to he reduced to in argument ad mise rfrordium, Thongh those who said this, did it with the intention of being witty on the subject; he,' with very ditferent feelings, would say, that it was really ad misericordium that be should imp peal. He should address the compassionate feel ings of the nation, not in behalf of the CoMpany, nor of the advantages as to commerce, but as an argument of pity to the security end happiness a 'the people of India. He would tell thenation not to be influenced by the complaints of a compara tively small number 'of trader's at home, but , by the welfore of in;iny millions in. india. A PhoetutiToit thought it was desirable that the Court should now adjourn to a future day. lie' thought it proper to give the Members o p portimity deliberately to,consider and digest time very importhlt matter of the letter received from. Lord Duckitighonshire, and lie therefore pro posed an adjournment to that day fortnight,Tnes, day, the 19th inst. 'lbis proposition met With particular applause, but some murmurs were heard, and the cry of . too lour wee .heard in several places. Sir H. 'Noels wished that period to he named, which would he most:convenient to the Proprie tors for their: nexclneeting. On a question of inn mech .- consequence, of vital importance to their interests; he certainly thought they ought not to be precipitete, but at the Metall: time it up,