The Sun. — London, England, 1802-04-01 00:00:00

Pas given. He now passed to the Reign of Han. VT. 1453, when Edward, his eldest son, was born. In 1455 an All of Parliament passed, enacting that the Prince of Wales was born Doke of Cornwall, and ought to have seisin of the Revenues and Possessions of the Dutchy, in as ample a manner as the Sort of Edward 111. ;---but enacting that the King should possess himself of the monies arising therefrom, on paying to the Prince the sum of toool. a year until he attained the age of 14, and 2000 marks a year afterwards. elne 1459 the Prince presented a Peti tion of Right, complaining of the dismemberment of the Dutchy, stating that he was of right Duke of Cornwall, and entitled to the Revenues and Pos sessions thereof, and praying that he might be rein stated in the enjoyment of the same, in as ample a 'wanner as his Predecessors had been. The Petition was debated in : the House of Commons, who as sented to the prayer of the Petition, as did the King, by the advice of his Parliament. He consi dered this as a solemn decision of Parliament, that the Revenues of the Dutchy were vested in the Prince of `Vales, from the moment of his birth, and that- the King ha.l no right to receive and dispose of them - during the minority of the Prince, or why did Henry VI. accede to the prayer of this Petition of Right ? It might be said, that Henry VI. was a weak Prince; hut this would not apply to the Par liament who adopted that decision. Edward IV. gave livery of seisin of the Dutchy to his son Edward Prince of Wales . , then only eight months old, wi t h the Revenues thereof, as stated in the Charter of Livery granted by that Monarch, with the advice and consent of Parliament. At the accession of Henry the Vllth, in 1485, an Aft was passed, enacting that his eldest son should enjoy the posses sions of the Dutchy of Cornwall in as ample a man ner as the eldest son of any former King ; •by which AEI, a charge of 27061. was made upon the Re_ - venues of the Dutchy in -.lieu of • purveyance. The - next year Prince Arthur was born, to whom the King gave, livery of seisin of the "Dwell), in the same manner as it had been given by Edward IV; to his Son. It 'was- then considered -that the Right of . the Prirsce to the Revenues of the Dutchy took place from the moment of his birth, in ctinsequence of which the ACI imposing a charge upon these Revenues was repealed. This was a • proof-that the moment aeSron was born, the title cf the king to the Revenues cf the D'atchy immedi ately ceased. On the death of Prince Arthur in 15oz, Prince Henry, afterwards Henry VIII. h a d livery of seisin, and although then very young, he at - Wally appointed Commissioners for the manage ment of the Revenues of the Dutchy, and received several Sums of Money for Fines; part of those Re venues. Upon the death of Henry VII. Henry . VIII. succeeded, whose son, Edward Prince of Wales, was born Duke of Cornwall, and had livery of seisin of the Dutchy. Edward VI. Mary and Elizabeth had no issue. He now came to the Reign of James I. He had thought that this Reign furnished something very adverse to the Claims of the Prince of Wales, but upon the most minute investigation, he could find nothing that did not tend to strengthen it. That Monarch was de sirous of withholding from his Son the Revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall, but found he could not do it. On the death of Henry Prince of Wales, the L I •••• • ', IL VCU Lt.) ICS, Wit lIIS Charles I.— When the King insisted that a second son was not entitled to the Revenues of the Dutchy, in the same manner as the first born son o the Privy Council, however, decided in favour of Charles, to whom livery of seisin was granted. By this it appeared, that the eldest son became eo instante Duke of Cornwall, and entitled to all the Rights and Reve nues appertaining thereto. James 1. was the only King who resisted the Claim. lie could nut rind whether Charles I. granted livery of seisin to his son, or not. Chatles 11. had no issue. James 11. hav ing abdicated the Throne, he would draw no in_ fercnce from the conduit of that Monarch. Wil liam 111. had no issue, nor had Queen Anne : he therefore now came . to the present Family. He would just state to the House, that all the feudal tenures•were abolished by the 1 ath of Charles subsequent to which no livery of seisin had or , could be granted. When George I. came to the Throne, his Son, afterwards George 11. who was thirty years old, was admitted so the possession of the Dutchy. At the time George 11. came to the Throne, his Son, Frederick Prince of Wales, was a minor, but came of age the year afterwards. An account, however, was rendered to him (and this was a strong circumstaace in flmvour of the present claim of the Prince of Wale's) of theeißevenues of the Dutchy received by the Crown from the period of the King's-accession, during a part of which rime the Prince was a minor. His present Majesty suc ceeded to the Throne in 1760; 176 z the Prince of Wales was born ; and he contended, that the Prince, from the moment of his birth, became entitled . 40 the revenues and possessions of the Dutchy of Corn. wall, without any Act of Parliament being nec • •• essary to confer them. If there was any Aft necessary, the Prince had been cruelly treated ; he was of opinion, however, that none was necessary. The title of the Prince of Wales was indeed completely recog nized by an Aft of the Sth of Geo. M. chap. z 6, which enacted, that His Royal Highness then stood seised of the Dutchy of Cornwall and the Possessions thereof, and gave power to the Crown to grant leases during the Prince's minority. He was at a loss to comprehend how the Prince could be seised of the Dutchy, without being entitled to the Re venues of it. As to a Charter of Livery, it must now be considered as wholly unnecessary. He was unable to anticipate a single objection to the claim of the Prince. If His Majesty had in point of.faa received these Revenues and refused to account for them, the Prince of Wales would not have suffered this question to be brought before the House ; but • there was no question about that, as, if the subjea were fully investigated, the House would find that all the Revenues of the Dutch) , received during the Prince's minority, had, with - the exception of two s small sums of 16,0001. and tz,oool. been paid into the Treasury. This was not, therefore, a question between the Prince of Wales and time King, but be tween :His Royal Highneas anti the Public; and a Right Hon.. Friend of his, who held the oilice of Chancellor of the Exchequer, had 'then stated to the House, that if there existed any claim of time Prince of - Wales !dative to this subject, that claim was upon the Public. The fat was', that these iterenues had been applied to the purposes of the Civil List. If the claim of the Prince of Wales was such as he had represented it, and he hoped he had not Ina& vertently misrepresented it, (he spoke with the utmost deference to the. House) he could not bring himself to feel that the House would compel the Prince to resort to a Court of Law to establish that ClaiM which no candid man could deny, and no honest man could resist. He would not believe that the House would entrench itself in legal forms to resist the Claims of the Heir Apparent to the Throne. This Claim was not suggested at the de sire of the Prince of Wales; but originated in the Throne itself. The chief motiveof His Royal High ness in bringing forward this Claim, was to stand well with the Public, to prove that he had not been a burden to the Public, and that whatever might appear to have been the liberality and generosity of Parlia ment, he had not received the whole of what he was entitled to. He was particularly desired by the Prince of Wales to abstain from any thing like com plaint ; indeed the House could not have a greater proof of the honourable condutt of the Prince, than the manner in which he conformed to the At, by which a part of his income was appropriated to the payment of his Debts. He hoped he was not now to be told that the Prince of Wales had entailed these incumbrances on himself by his imprudence ; if he was disposed to admit this, which he was not, but if he was to admit it for a moment, he would ask where was the man to be found, who united the prudence and caution of age with the spirit and ge nerosity of youth ; or was such a charader, if it was to be found, likely to he estimable ? Was it not, on the_ other hand, a charader, from which was too likely to arise every thing sordid and mean ? If the House should agree to the appointment of a Committee, the next business would he to take an account of the monies 'received : he should say lit tle upon that subject at present, but he particular ly wished to state, that if a balance should be found to be due to the Prince of Wales, His Royal Highness would not receive a shilling of it, but appropriate the whole to the payment of his debts. He trusted, that upon all these grounds the House would do justice to the Prince of Wales. He con cluded.by moving; " That a Committee should be appointed to inquire what Sums of Money had been received, and by whom, on account of the Reve nues of the Dutchy of Cornwall, from the period of the Birth of the Prince of Wales till his at taining the age of 21 years, - and how the same had been applied ; and also of the Sums advanced to His Royal Highness to die z7th of June, 1795, in clusive." Sir RALPH MILBANKE seconded the Mo tion. He had no other motive, he said, than to see justice done, and he-wished a Committee to be appointed in order that the subjea might be tho roughly investigated. Mr. FULLER said, it appeared by the Journals that Mr. HUMPHREY MORRIS, a Member of the House, having been appointed Warden of the Stanna ries in 1763, a Motion was made for a new Writ ; but 'which, after a debate, was reject ; it being determined that the office was not a place under the Crown. I • was to be inferred, therefore, that the Prince of Wales was seised at that time of the Dutchy of Cornwall. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, in answer to what had been stated by the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, he had only to observe, there were held under the Dutchy of Lancaster, which was incontestibly under the control of the King, several offices, tht appoint ment to which did not vacate the seat of a Mem ber of that House. But even if that point were doubtful, he should consider it inconsistent with his duty, as he understood it, to concur 'in the Motion made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He certainly should say it would be matter of great presumption in himself, as well as a waste of time to that House, if he were to ask -for its indulgence for many minutes. in the discussion of the legal part of the subject now before the House. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman who introduced it had discharged his fundions most correctly, ex plained the case fully, had given to it all the advantages of knowledge, of discrimination, and of eloquence ; but he did not know how he could give a stronger proof of the confidence he felt in the motives and principles which actuated his own conduel, than in rising now and delivering his sentiments, after so clear a statement of the case, and so able an address had been made by his Hon. and Learned Friend, to the House. In many parts of that speech, though there was much to ad mire, he must own that his Hon. and Learned Friend did not convey conviction to his mind. He had cer tainly stared; with great ability and eloquence, the right of the Prince of Wales to the Revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall, and lie had stated it, as at taching to the Prince from the moment of his birth, in like manner as if he were of' full age; but whether the right was so clear and indisputable, as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman' had contended, there were considerations which operated upon his judgment, and rendered it impossible for him to assent to the Motion now made. His Hon. and Learned Friend had assumed the right of' the Prince of Wales to the Revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall from his birth, but he meant to go into the Committee upon very precise words, as they appeared in his Motion, which was to inquire " under what authority, and so forth," together with " a power to search for Precedents," for the purpose of investigating the grounds on which he rested the claims of the Prince of Wales, as they might appear on the Journals of Parliament :, he believed that to be one of the pur poses for which his Hon. and Learned Friend had introduced the Motion. Then, without meaning disrespect to any body, but with the freedom of a Member of that House, he would ask: the SPEAKER, and the House collectively, whether such a Motion could be submitted to that House consistently with any authorised Precedent what ever ? What did it amount to ? That the. Committee should have the power of examining the journals - of that House, for his Hon. and . Learned Friend could not indeed expect the House - • would enter on the ,second part of the subjett pre viouS to its disposing of the first, natnely, that of taking any account of the Revenues of the Botchy. His Hon. and Learned Friend proposed that investigation of the Journals, which, he said, would satisfy the Committee, and whose report on ohat subject would satisfy the House of the pro priety of the claims of His Royal Highness ; and after that investigation, his Hon. and Learned Friend proposed that the House, being satisfied of the right, should proceed to take an account of the Revenues of the Dutchy; a combination of duties, iatended to be imposed upon that House, never before in cluded in any motion that ever was adopted by that House, or indeed, he believed, submitted to it.— His Hon. and Learned Friend had gone through a very ample field of, Precedents, in which he was not disposed to follow him; nor, in his view of the subjed, was it necessary, for, he thought his Learned Friend had fallen into a fundamental errOr, not from want of ability, but from riot having ap plied his talents to the subject in the way in which, he conceived, it ought to be considered, and par ticularly according to the praCtice of the last two centuries. His Hon. and Learned Friend contended, that the effeta of the At of Charles the Second, which he quoted, was to abolish Tenures, as he had stated the case to apply to the claim of the Prince of Wales to the Revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall. He did not think it right to assume much know_ ledge on the Subject, as far as it formed a legal ques tion, nor had he the least disposition for questioning • the powers of his Learned Friend, to form a cor red opinion - upon that or any other subject worthy his attention ; he had indeed great respect for the opinion of his• Learned Friend, but whatever that opinion was, there were others for whose opinion he had also great respect, as he was bound to• - have, fot none had greater talents, nor •any of greater ap: plication, which opinion was contrary to that which was expressed by his Learne'! Friend, the technical expression of which was, that in this case of guar dianship in chivalry, the Guardian, while the Ward, is declared to be seised, until application for release, being in possession, has a right to the rents and pro fits belonging to the Ward. That the Guardirr was entitled to the profits and revenues after seising, and until livery is demanded, &c. This was ap_ plicable to the Case of Royal Highness the Prince of Wales - . - There was no demand of livery . made on his behalf, as Duke of Cornwall, during his minority. -This he understoOd to be a point of Law, on which opinions of the bighest authority were adverse to this claim on the part of His Royal Highness. .But he begged. the House. to, 1 unoerstand, that he was stating these things with great hii dence and reluctance as to part:of-the ol*ft tk speech of his Learned Friend, natneiy, to settle legal question. He was not orepared to oOve a de sided opinion upon it ;. it w as oot necessarY to should ; it was enough tor him to know that doubts were entertained upon this matter, by those who were, from the course of their education and habits of lite, much better qualified than lie could pretend to he to form an opinion on it :oknowing that these doubts were entertained, he thought it improper to take the step now recommended to the House, for until it was found, that fromthe particular 'oartire,, of this case, or from sonic other cause, legal redress . out of that House was unattainable, that .this was demonstrated by attempts being made in vain to obtain it, he should think the House of Commons. would be going out °fits proper course, by entering. on the investigation of the subject. He did not presume to state what these means for legal redress might be, but this he knew, some of the best informed men, and the wisest, were of opinion that a Petition of Right was the Proceeding proper to be adopted in this case. His Learned Friend's second head of observations upon this subjeCt, was one on which a few words ought to be bestowed, and here the question was, Whether the Public had received the Revenues and Profits of the Dutchy of Cornwall ? This was a part of the case which had about it considerable delicacy. Here he would ask, Where was the proof that any part of the Revenue - of the Dutchy of Cornwall had been direttly applied to the service of the Public ? He would ask, whether the proof was to be found in the Journals of Par liament ? Or, whether in the Journals of Parliament any trace was to he found of any such appropria tion ? He knew that during the minority of the Prince of Wales, sums of money arising from the Revenues of the Dutchy of Cornwall, had been voted to be applied to the purposes of the Civil List, but that 94.,0001. of this property came under the head of Special Services. The House would recollect what the circumstances were which attended this transadion, and they would be fully aware, that it did not always follow that a sum in tended to be applied for Special Service, could be said to be actually for the Public Service. • He was entitled to call on Gentlemen who contended, that this claim was a claim upon the Public, io . conse- Duence of the application of the Revenues of the utchy of Cornwall to the use of the Public, to shew from Documents, by which alone that asser tion could be proved, how and when that applica tion of that Revenue took place ? His Hon. aod Learned Friend had stated a wish, on the part of His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, to give satis faCtion to the Public. Whoever had the happiness to be acquainted with His Royal Highness, must be well aware of the truth of that assertion. It was a pleasure to the Public to refled, that such senti ments were entertained by that illustrious Prince— It must give satisfaction to every good man, that. His Royal Highness had an anxiety to stand well in the opinion of the Public—Any man who could enter tain a contrary feeling or a different wish, must be void of honour, dead to every generous impression, and ought to be branded as a monster, and hold up to the scorn of the Public—But this was not mere matter of personal anxiety, even in His Royal High ness, manly and virtuous as that feeling was ; that the Prince of Wales should stand well in the opinion and affection of the Public, was a matter in which the Public itself was interested. Ir was a deep stake of the Public, that His Royal Highness Should fill that place in the public esteem ; and that every branch of the Royal Family should be in the same situa tion in that particular, was also interesting to us all. - That His Royal Highness had that wish, was proved to the House by the manner in which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had introduced toe subject for its discussion : but the Hon. and Learn. ed Gentleman had stated, that if this matter was fully iavestigated, it would appear, that when the , SUMS which His Royal Highness had received:iieri: put in opposition to what he was entitled to Royal Highness had not been the occasion of "' l l t burthen to the Public. However that point 11.4 stand in reality, he was confident, in all the sum' which had been voted for Royal Highnesis7; and for every branch of tho Royal Family, t he House of Commons had tided with the sense the/ felt of the respect which was due .on the one 110°2 and the care and frugality - on the other—respea most unfeigned for every branch of the Royal Fa mily, and care and frugality as the guardians of 61 5 public purse. Now, as to the state of Accou nts in particUlar, as they applied to Sums voted , h e had oe cnoonn,in to stating i the circumstances beforelaytleoarcumtlsietal;ilc7s of n e set:a cv fo i rm il e L r i ° st e ; c but he could nor consent to the course of proceeding: proposed by the motion-now before the Hou se ; an° 1;e called on the House to do him the justice to be lieve, that he had but one object in view buPci°n this occasion, and he hoped he should never a' don it on any, and that was, to arrive at truth.'' The motion was of two parts : that of deciding upon the cplestion of right, and of taking the a e ; count. Upon the subjed of the right, he bad s tate° to c what occurred to him; by. way of answer the application to the House. He believed le to be by means of. a Petition of Right• I le mus o a however not be understood to recommend "' at ' l e e any other proceeding. As to the Statement Hi s Account, it appeared that the sums issued f° ~r Royal Highness the Prince of Wales out of the Irv , List, were monies which arose out of a fixed a ," ° ante, and which it was unnecessary to t rouble the . e f House with the detail of; there was an aggregl e vae 123,4811. there was besides an extraordinary "11-' ance of so,esol e a further sum between the Frj ; i a , of Wales and his Royal Brother Prince Frederic,/ Duke of York, a sum of 32,00'01. the which that fell to the share of the Prince of Wa d; was, he believed more than a moiety,' h' l - r amount of the advances in the year 17813:, t he • 211,3901. Now deduding 16,c001. of t he gregate, more than a moiety, alth °°B 4 3 rlca l Duke of Yotk most probably bad . a goo' less, there would • then have b een receive" .by ite - Ptince• of Wales - atthe d • 1 I° ' ; , ertot. be af-iu was 0 1 1 - proprtile: year 1783, Upwards of 195,0001. Titis a ' fill cable only to twelve years of the nonage ' ° ` . . ett es Royal Highness the Prince of Wales. The ftev) have of the Dutchy, from - Q aid t° ~,lien / 2 'to I 7 o3, , are 4- • v at , been 233,0001. ; so that -if 38,0061. were 3 i ltvr durir!g the nine first years of - ,th s e Prince' . 0 : 11 ' 61i vne n the whole stun would be accounted for. ateln i thee Prince of Wales came of- age, there was 3 foi made to - hitn out of: the Civil List, of there_ h:s. Revenue,and• which was received by - 1 1 's Highness until the yea'r'..t7K 7 that peri ° e `e es a augmentation Of the Revenue;-of took place oat of the'civil List, which was tog raised to oceoool. per acnum.. The Whoi as from that period to the eth of . l antia iya 1 8 O z ' a t he 86 ;,0001. The whole' 'sum advanced Oil e s a f • Liv 11 List to the. Prinea of Wales, since Pilo age, • kt Nvit , - ,725.0001. Out of 'which the_r . - I . l e e' he. be particular items dededed, the detail of w ° , / st en should-not enter upon at present—such R 1 • :- laid d y a r u i ln u Ed t il o gr n i,: C illle a st r 3l l .: t e o c n i e rc house, ums t .arid s ( t ) i f ri t i e h c o , t i l ifi le t r u a I . ;:iah e • talents that were made, the particulars ° I " w Butwere laid minutely before Parlianient 1795i1is made on the on e s ui li p a o n s d i , ng a l n t e ilces 'high w t e i r le revenues 01 1 00 Dutchy of Cornwall t a k en on the other, wit,laty • touching the question of right, he doub re , d ,:e it much the accuracy of the calculation by w","" d be was found that a considerable balance, w u t 'a n ot in favour of the Prince of Wales. . c O , to but be matter of joy to the House of Coann°oeilia hear from authority so unquestionable as tha f t rw ard Hon. and Learned Friend who brought ° te nded this Motion, that His Royal Highoesa i n to the to appropriate any thing he might recei ve ' w ore payment of his Debts. It was a selitintlej; it thy of the virtue from which it orign're, 00 3 must give every man in England pleaVod to none more than the person wh° st d " the honour-of making the observation . Great tion of Heir Apparent of the Crow n . 0 0 ,04 5 Britain was so high a nd so o ne rous, tha t it oi l,eo I le required more than was allowed to hir for the i came of age. It was much to be .vvis.n e ": Royal sake of the feeling and comfort of His ,,d tir° l3 Highness the Prince of Wales, and i o u e ' eee ld b e public grounds it was desirable, that he s " -- ean s put in possession, as soon as possible, °I -tbe ca n e l on ee. which were granted by Parliament for his t . eto the that he should be as soon as oossbie P ut t :be de tail possession of those means. It wa s , t i sired by the Public, th a t e v er y branch °I . °e ' ta ' he , Family should be supported with splendourcte..; aou Public was interested in that very aOPea ra 'i t Cle te however the oddity of the expression Wig ens e a smile, he was of Opinion, there wus'fn ucl' o s fli; rds what was said once at the Bar of the Ho°' baancii by Sir F. Norton, when' e said; that all til e w itit es of the Royal Family should be s u PP` irt e e" ,o lal a degree of splendour peculiar tot i i c le u r n ou s.self. ...--. %-e'_ r Orot to their aelitience ought to be a consp be the cap of State ; was a feeling r°P e lo ur ea cherished, by a Statesman, f or respett to 0 10 e i l " was founded in the nature of 53 f it l from a feeling and conviction the truthiveerion and here, he could not refrain from an °llse . ' 11 ' 55 • e that occurred to him, and which aros e f •and scandalous misrepresentation on the su b i c o f 1 11 E 5. - Debts of His Royal Hightiese, eon se q ue c ' ivii Li t having brought forward the ,Abject of the o i o ly " 0 0 A misrepresentation that wo k place, ce,' ) . , it past ° e in that House, but out of it. 'Nothing t' that occasion could justify the ex pressio" i ;, I ' e of on that subjed, by way of refiettion.°,', t aarl' el would say again, it was . 'his earnes ,ri t 51 -1 1 1 :a payment of the Debts of His Roe 3 l w isteo ,be be accelerated as much as possible, cons _ i d: the measures adopted by Parliament f°r l l s ita e ,, t l; l o, House would 'therefore perceive, w` °P ) j d any ?Ire siderabie reludanee that he offe, re an d . 1 tion to a measure that was io tench:,.,f , e desl'• to have for its oleied, the attaincnt9t of vi°eJt —an end--„ to lie could not assent to • t si tu e t d i t healze before the House. He koe‘.y it mG t o a Guardian, - or a Father, is not at . bis use of what tray be Taft. to his COn da t rl e ng io . ture " 1 ' rity, but that he is to elTly it to I'l