The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1806-05-31 00:00:00

r omiNNIM for it both,w ic . pare the Right lion . Centlemen is . ample cre ir. The second period to whi, h sheuld allude, he s .id, WAS the three first rat s of the last war, in which•the King's Ministers ohJ fir more wisely then Lord North had done ; they attemote.l, in she n•uel way, to raise men for unlimited service, as well a. for rank and heeled service also; and by these means, they, on an average of • three years. raised no less than 25 955 men a year. In the three first yr arc of the Am..ricen War there weee imly raised 11,631 men per ;atrium, even be that limited service, that was then reset ted to ; so that it was evident, that more men had been raised duritit the present war. than in either of the former peli "di:. and that the least no•nber was raised in the Am I ken war. w;th all the supposed advantage of this limited service ; and it was a, fact, that by means of the Army of Reserve, and the Additional Yotee Act, s') (100 men more had been raised for the defence of the country, than by ail the diff-rnt >nodes f limited service; and the men obtained lately were known to be better than those enlisted eiurirg Limey times, or during the American War. The Right Hon. Gentlemen had said, his plan will produce more men, and keep up the eetahliehrneur . .setter, end mar- hail, than the Army of Reserve, of ,Additional bore* Act. The Right Him. Gentleman bedepeten of the ordieaey cesitaltie. of the Arm). tie wished • had also adverted to the extra. 'ordinary casualties he ought to have recoiled eJ.th at the utile may come, thnuea 1e Y •) hope/ at over would, when our army wall +are to f ice that if the enemy in the field, either h Ireland ill- England. or hoth—'n such a case the meeting wout i he dreedtul indeed ; and at could no t be expefted otheraise, than that the casualties in such a case might emotra from 17 or IS to 50.000 men.—!ileac are ex. reordieary casualties wh,cn may tyke place, and made him e.k, with alauen and dread, why should we roil blindly into this innovation, the good effeds nt w lei we are • entirely egimeenr. an 1 give up a plan that has been triad. and proved effective to the raising ( •,f 35,000 wehin the year ? He then went i n to a statimen• of 't h e awasuot of the army an the American we,. by which he showed, that af:er sending out flee n regiments to America and the west Indies, the cat patties amounted to 17,3.54 m ; and w:rh a ll the jc *Wm tithe total the: could raise wa.19,151 risen. and.dedudi • t .; the cesueities duteag that period, the bal. rice was Uccle mole their 1,2 a 6 men. Hew uld ••••the i.iore ask any gentleman. no, l aedetermined to supto:t a perticnlar side of a whir& why they oho a'J dot insist on Ministers pausing, before the I hurried on a measure of such immense import anc F as the present? It was allowed, he said, that the tot. d.deficieney at-present was only a filth ; in the Arreerican War it amounted to a feurth ; and it was par remarkable, that in the drone, on the teems . , di brae:. it was stated. that the army wanted Sa,l'li)i) to c mplete the este"slishmen: ; Jed that was given as a reason for the necessity of peace, and: not cantradicted from the other side of the hen e. That consequence of that plan of Limited Service, be sue; has, that a spirit of mutiny br ke out in cur awn sy, of which he instanced the 77th Regiment, wb in going to embark at Portsmouth ; and it was Ant. the least the praise due to ale. Pitt, the steps •lee leak to Ming back the army from that state of 16.4.eantaatiou and e;;e4ocier eas which it then was. ktie neat point. he said, the Right lion. Gentle rote at came to was, the practical inconvenience with re e red to the colonial arrangements; and he *as eau t.n surprised that the Riant Hnn. Secretary had sot some,hing to introduce to obviate that Meets . awe' :nee ; but the only thing he had to urge on this laid was, that there was much time before any in ce. sytnienee could arise from this quarter, arid that th• ,relere it should not be adverted to. The Hon. G.ltatlearan then supposed. that Government were oh 'laced to serd a regiment to the East ladies, and ales the greaser part of these men would have finish ed :their period nt seven years in she coin se of a I, et months. He would ask. would Geverrertent, ue ler these circumstances. exert their p ewer of eteatding the reeirnents away, though it was known. at ,die same time, that before the troops arrived at I::ei r place of destiration. the men would be emen cipated. Very unpleaesut consequences might re from such a proceeding, as the men IA nista be very apt to refuse going out under suet eircerri -staaces. . He would he very sorry indeed that such a measure as this should he car led into exeentior, without a deer statement of all the minute parts of tbo case ; bat, at all events, those which concerned I elie, where there were no leis than 25 000 men, a d where, the distance he:ng s' greet, the Mem , reutence arising from limited service would be more merely felt. He, however, allowed, that by this plum, one-seventh of the army raised under it, wrat' not he disbanded at the end of the first pe:iod of seven years, on account of the orthnery losses of the army ; hut supposing that 17 teo men a year were nosed oy it. aceorcUng to a caireiiation he had mare, S or 6090 men would be discharged at the end et the seven years, Had perheas troy, if the o:fieers were disliked, so that • this, he though', ought to bv a sufficient r.,a , ,0n with the Right Honourable Gentleman, to alter his plan with respell to India; and if he did not, lie thluAbt at was incumbent on the House to rej-tft the 'flea-. sure. Warn respell to the alteration with regard to time, which the Right Honourable Gentlemsn had proposet, he constJeted it only as rostpoidn,t; an evil. which would he as hurtful to tile t.ervicr st i fle end of that period, as at the end of the seven ago, ; and if a PAU..enlisted for seven years, seas seat abroad shortly letfote Isis time had expired. it mAglit be fairir said, that without an infringement et the comma. the nieesnre could net be effica cieur• The tionourable Gentknean then declared. it was not from 21. y hostile intention tossar.ts His Majesty's Ministers that Ise opposed this measure. lost merely became he did not think it would•be cf service to the coolly. At pr. -vent, he thought the arty in a very founidahle state ; and as, fr. m any information he mold obtAl. he did not think there was a prolee.ility of tweak. ) , g a^ tri7 a o cad . - he:cooceired the better way 1 /(411(i be, till rely kw the present. stn the ordinat3 r:crtiCurg....ed it Out was found not to answer, then. in the cnio•se of a year, • Lea Ilin'bilr* Plight Come fosisverd with 10 p ie utter measure. The finuchtrable Gentleman t h corwiuded i.y erterieg his pretest against the which r.e did not 'beak coo k/ e y e , haw the devired fife ['abash cRAUFUnD said, be thought, on the first slew of the suhj .4, the ehjealien with reed to the colonies, seemed to carry Moo weight with it, but a very tridiag explanation _would, he thought, make it have a very different appearance to the House in genet- il. The Honourable Gentleman, he said, had stated, that there were constantly .4J,000 men in India ; but, he believed. from the papers on the table, the number there did not ap pear to amount to more than about 21,000. Now, he thought, no man of common feeling would ac knowledge, that a portion of those when went to India, should not return to their country before they were absolutely in such a state, as that they were unable to enjoy life. By a calculation he had . made at the end of seven years, not more than 1000 men a year would be dischargA, so that in &aft the effeal world not he such as had been re presented, and the necessity of changing the tegi. mance so often would be obviated. He did net wish to eater into any detail with respect to the West Indies, but 'he thought the same mega ment would hold good ; namely, that there would not be a necessity of changing 'the regi ments so often.. As to those sent to the East Indies, on a Slithit n emergency, he did not i hi ,k that an ar gument which required any answer, :Ind he would no t theref of , speak to it; but, with regard to those seri , to the West, on an emergency, it was not the custom to let them remain there, so there could be no disadvantage from the !United service. The lion Gentleman had asked whether any change was i necessary or sot ? he, fur his part, thought it was necessary, and that the hnnour, glory, and even safety of the country, called 'aloud for it. The Hon. Gentleman then entered into a statement of the amount of the army, at different periods, and as serting from these that there was an antral decrease, he saiti o lie thought nothing lurtherwould he required to prove the necessity of some Measure being intro. dined. How much more desirable would it have been, if, instead 01 harm: such an army as we 13 .W have, we had (50,093 men enlisted for general set vice, when we lately forced a foreign nation into a war, whom we were afterwards unable to assist with any complement of men? If Bonaparte had known that. we had a large disposable army in England, WAS it probable that he would have marched his troops across the Rhine ? or, it he had, could not we have landed in France, destroyed Boulogne, or did such other injury to the en e my as was t h oug h t most advisable. On a farmer debate, the Noble Lord opposite to him ( Lord Castlereagh) had fur nished him with an argument in favour of the mea sure. He had said, in defending his own measures, that the reason the men did not enlist in the regular army, was, that a mart bind up in freedom could never be induced to give up his entire life for so trifling a consideration. The Bills brought in by the Noble Lord obviated this, and now the resent plan would have the same effeft. and would also make the army disposable. The next improve ment he thought this plan would make, was, that i: would lessen tl.e severity and puhlieity of discipline, as the officets would be more inclined to make themselves beloved by the men. far the puo pose nf inducing them to enter ag tin atter the period for which they were enlisted had espired. There was also vintner improvement., wnicn would be lonk ed forward to with pleasure by the private soollers, namely, that et the end of ti years they iroelil be amulet to a comfortable provision. With respi-El to what the Honourable Baronet had said, that the second battalions should be enlisted for a limited time : and the first battalions for life, he cc uhf roily give it as his opinion, that in the end it would re solve irseli . in the same thing as is now proposed, as no man could ever be iaduce.l to enlist in a tirst bat talion, when aware of the benefits he would have by enlisting in a seco..d. Obje&ions bad been made to the enli.tment for ten years, and it was proposed that the words r Jilting the war" should be substituted; now he did not think he difference WAS sufficiei.tly great to ground an objection on. as, in tad, wars in genera: did not last hinge: than ten years ; there was also an objedion against enlisting men during Cie continuance of a war, as it rade the soldiers wish for peace, which was by no means an imp-ovement in the eharalter of a soldier. Many instances could be adduced in favour of enlistment for a limited time, amorg which, the period of the American war was not the least striking ; hot there was a mare recent instance, which came within the observation of every man ; and none, he belined, would be inclined to take away from the merit of the army of Egypt ; he appealed to any gentleman in the House, who was in that army, ti declare whether the soldiers who volunteered from the Militia, a: d who, of coarse, were enlisted for a limited time, did not take a just portion of the glory obtabed there. The Honourable Gentle- TIMM then referred to the French Urdonnaece, and quoted an opinion, given in a book written by Marshal Saxe, which strenuously advised au enlistment for five years. and also to discharge the men, if their time should expire, during the continuance of the war. An Honourable Gentle man (Mr. Canning) in a former night's debate, had quoterthe discharge of the American army by Gen. Washington, after the battle of Bunker's.hill. while in the face of the enemy; but this did not bear on the present case, as such a circurnttance never could occur in England, His Majesty having not only the power of keeping those io the ranks who were already there, bat also of ordering all his subjeAs there besides. His could not allow the mutiny, after the American war, to he made a mefedent, as that was a dire& breach of faith, which was always to be deprecated, the men being sent to Ladia after the peace had been agreed to,butbeforethed:finitive treaty was signed. A farther advantage that would arise from discharg ing the men was, that there would then be a portion of the people prepared for the enemy. it he shout I attempt to land ; and none, he believed, would con tend. that it was not absolutely necessary, in a nation which contended with another of more ex tensive portal aims, to have some body of men like these. or omilar to the Volunteers, who raigist re csust tie army in time of need (f lane cry of new! deft! frees tLe Oheas.t.ee Jew hes) He could not acknowledge that desertions would be so frequent as had been stated, the men would have a greater inducement to remain in die army dive they had at mufti, and thee, would also be a punishment hassoMg over their heads. At the end of seven yeirs, d a war br..ke out. His Majesty had the power of retaining [hear in the service for aree yowl longer; and it was very probahle, that the greater part of the men would lather take a small bounty, and enlist over again for seven years, than be sosli o ad in remain for three years, without re ceiving any thing additional ; so that, in fai t. no dis advantage rein f arise from the plan which his, Right Hon. Friend had brought forward, so far as he had now considered it. ft hid been said, that this would • grant an advantage to recruits, and not to old soldiers ; but that was not the case ; as those of the latter, who had served seven }eats, were to have an encrease, and a further eucrease at the ens. of It yeas ; and seen they had served their 21 years. he believed they would be entitled to their discliane, so that, instead of the old soldiers not being entitled to a Ilene:it. they alone would &rive an inimediate advantage. The Hon. Gentleman then made a short recapitulation of the heads of his alignment, and concluded by declaring h s entire appiohaticn of the plan. Sir W. PULTENEY, in explirectinn, said, tbat the whole of the army which achieved the vie ties of Egypt, was engaged fir gertersil unlimited ser vice. Col. CRAUFURD reel:od, that part of that army had been raised for hinted set vice, particu larly the two battalions of the tOth Regiment. General LOFTUS sail, he could net, silently, give his vote on ss important an occasion. The matter before the House simply resolved into the question, what w.ll the most likely mea is of *dear:cies the railit ar y. strengt h o f t h e ultato y ? thought it hut jest to give the plaint' the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) a fair trial, at much of the repugnance he had formerly felt es WAS nbviat -d by the authority which goverumetit w.is to have, of requiring three pais extensine ..1 the service of tee men, in case of necessity : that period would be sufficient for the purposes of recruitiog at home, and of supplying colonial deficieuces ; he would not, therefore, nperne the question. • General NORTON said a few word.; and suge guested, AS far as we conk( iindcrstand,, the pro priety of adjourning the debate ; but the noise in the House was so considerable, as to render him almost wholly inaudiele in the gallery. Mr. CANNING rose (amidst a Iced rru of ques tion! question!) and sai.', he could not reconcile it , to himself, as a Memb er o f P ar l iament, to Ice a question of this magnitude pass without saying a fnv words. Instead of proceeding with the preci pitation which was now apparently desired, it had been usual to proceed with more than usual caution, when, as in the present case, iscnnsiderable innova tion of a material feature of ithe Constitution was proposed. This was the first time that so wen and fundamental an alteration had come before the I louse to be discussed, on a clause in a Committee : no instance was to be found on the records of Par liament wherein, in a case like this, it had not been first submi t t e d whether such aiscussion should lie entertained at all ; and he could not but cialsider the manner in which the sup jeet was now brought forward, as great an innovation as the proposed measure itself; it was a mementons con sideration to arise out of a clause not alually a part cf the Bill, but merely now proposed to be regretted upon it, after en ominnus and er.li tary..precedent in the reign ef_Quekn Anne. The Mutiny St '114,1 been shitereir t.. expire three times this year, or neailv so, and this House was at pre sent placed in a situation in which they were told that it was necessary to precipitate discussion, to al low the Bill to go to the House of Lords, and to he passed by a certain day. Thin had the W l ,ht Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Windham) reduced the country to the dilemma of having no army az all, or Parliament, to that of having no time ta enercise its deliberate legislative iun.liions, and this most wantonly and umecessarily, as there was nothing to prevent the subjen being much earlier brought forward. Had the necessity for the inno 'ethers now proposed in the Bill, arisen from any sudden and over-ruling emergency, then, induct, migio such a course of cntelual.have been ex cusable ; but, so far from the army being in a state of dilapidation, and crumbling away, the House were told that it was in hetter state than otclinary ; and, that the proposed amendments in the Bill, were only ei have a future and distant operation. Where then, was the necessity for pressing them naw, and what apology could be offered for tie precipitation which was unavoidable, if the plan of ingraning them in the present Mutiny Bill w is persisted in ? It was an indisputable political truth, that the die. cussinn, in public assemblies, of questions afteetirsg the regular army, had n had a goof tendency. The army of the king had been held aloof from the interference of Parliament. Another army had been, hitherto, the cause of deliberation in that house; that of creating a large defensive force, as enntria bating to the balance of the power of the regular. army. But the flight Honourable Gentleman seemed to be pursuing a direetly opposite course to what it had been heretofore thought politic to adopt, by bringing parliament to interfere with the ar rangement of the crown army. The single instance of the Tory Ministers of Queen Ann. adopting a singular measure, and which was superseded in two years, by the succeeding Whig government. Was not enough to warrant the loss of two stages of the bill, by the precipitation proposed. It was one which, if amended, as proposed, ought to have the most mature deliberation. Was there any man who doubted, ti.at the King had already power to. re:se an army fat limited sereice ? certainly net. The objeft then of this bill, at amended, was not to give any new authority, nor to revive any obsolete prerogative, but must be for the purpose of giving a controlang power to Parlia ment, and pt calling upon the Kisg to do what he had already in himself Lie power to do, it he thought fit, and which would have been done much better without the intervention of that House; as Parli ament, by that interpoatic.n, wouid have imposed spots them the task of retreading their seps in a fu ture year. and the pain of resorting to new m-a sures. should this not succeed. This consideration would be enoog to regulate his vote, even if, in stead a antictpatiug evils and dangers from the innovation of the Mutiny Bill, ee had sausteine Irape/Illations of its OEM. But this was tow the proper bill in which such a chine as thet pro. posed ought to be introduced ; aral if, in defi ance nf tosiory and precedent, the clause was to be carried into effen, it ought tc be done in a separate and spe:ific ; the result of which, haweser, wars Wet I t wools! only be, that hi a future reir, when theßight !fop. Gentleman's plat, was found to fail, the retreat of Parliament from it *fund he re.'dered more diffi cult. Ti - e main temptation was onviously the Erni: '- Lion of service r but, after all the refinsm..ntr that h .1 been intag'ned in the military life. the army must be raised from the lowest orders, who entered into it, as affording the most eligibla mode of sobsirence, and no; inking to any thing beyond it at the ego'. r:t•ion of a certain number of years. Nifs brinier,' de vice, even of the Hen. Col (Crau turd) himself. w fold ger recruits from St. James'estreer, ins rad °Cabe ploogli and the wake. But it w,. rseeenstas neat sort of people ohn greatly preferred withheld service in space (as wax intended he the new 'psi. t.int to the old pi..n „general .service in point of period. and limited in point of &racier; and tnitt, they would he induced to enter into the army. me the instigation of their friends. who v•ou1.1 svistl them to gn a tour. fur improvemefft, to the It est In.. dies and other places abroad. This odd po yenrity rerainded him of the men, woo said, that 6. tit es was very little wind, lint what there wee was h'7il. " ( c h.) 7herc would be nn end iit mide.vo'ar'zig to frame a service to please all thee. Twit-rue' .vitl delicate .palates r to etch this iniemscupie race, the liou , e sr..t hi he weariag acts fesf parliament all the year. without ca.f:hieg any riff; at List. The only instances 'het had hewn aiditeed, of limited service in any of the twiliary stet:s of Europe, had shewn it to be an impeartreetrle France. with alLthiuketwas a of population. the government fond it ;rustics% Ye, when it *as enacted by law, en keep Near word with the soldiery, with respect to their digs - her?', whit musb be exprilied here, in a country whose po pnlatioo is Abs9ri)-(4 in niarnsfar ures, and in a greet navy f ,le wnuld, be thought, require all the retro grade loicie-rff the Rt. Hen. Gent. (gr. Vv - irrdhaur) to prevail tr . , ,, 0 t h e H iae to putts unto an Itc t.mirei4vef g and whartheet bad in evi ti`fS;t: had so.rrytop:eteiy failed to the extent in which it had eeet leers. practi.ed. -It aufmtnnetely the cla:lses striall go in'o a Cronnsiriee. he (Mr. ('ca ning) would certainly vote forth, ;To:firmed ester sion of three years service in care of war, though he greatly preferred unlimited service ; sod if ar.y Hon. Gentleman proposed tbs further ahso;ase ex tension of the first period of service to twenty-ores years, he would gladly espouse thin incre tie, or arty other. to the proposed prind of enrolment. The Hon. Member pros ezded with mulch pleasantry to Twice some of the similes rf the night Hon. Gentlemai, by whom the Define bad been opened ; and then, in , the name cf the House and the country. to ,:i::.egn his tenets!! for not giving more saesfaaory answers to the impormet interrima tori s which wet* put to biro. after his plan, had been tic months under discusrein. Ile distinctly fered from t'w Right Hon Gent. with respect to tie constif utional and earliamentary force of the coon. try; nobody wished to interfere with his system of making the eaperimer.t of !malted service, for which be hest already pour: r; ;.1!!t e (vlr.Carrning). hoped, that he would not make Parliament a party to it, as that HOatle would renfiunce no practical benefit by not interfering, hut weak: arm Awning any practical disadvantages that might remit from it tie woitid, os alse,grauon.laile./as a i tiAte.d..voni for ais-neacitd mrnt, which, he inideritood, would be proposed, for making discharges nat claimable under the bill in war. Mr. FOX s +LI, he rose not only to answer the night Hata. Gen leman who had just sat but to enter 60771.VA)VAt into the general principles rl the debar. He could hardly believe his earl when be heardithe Itig!A Hon. Gentleman complain of the precipitatian which the short time allowable for the passing of the Bill would occasion, since, if that Right Hon. Gent. had been attended so. there • mild have been two days less for the dimension than there were, and already eb e allotted period had h.:eri abridg. ed two slays in consequence of his suggestions. But now the shortness of the time became a circuits stance which be wished to exa;perarc ; and this he (Mr. Fox) could trot but point out to the House. as a sample of the Right Hrn. Gentleman's candour, an.l the tenor of his argurneirt. Why did not the Right Hon Gen.l.mian tell them (.he Mini.rer ) • they. were not to inove the Hi 1 for a x weeks (Here Mr. Caanutg, across the table, replied, I did ;" which was followed by Mu and continued cries of hear ! hear I near! from the Opposition side of the House.i The Right Hon. Gentleman says, i why was not this done in a different mai:ner ? the chimes ought nut to he introduced into the Mutiny Bill at all. It WAS strange, however, that it was strialy in pursuance of the general ptaeice to pro pose those thengs in the Committee on that Bill. Then, the Right Hon. Gentleman says, that for a Parliament, or a popular Assembly, to meddle with the Army of the Crovrw, ass always produeive of miscHef ; and this he says in a House where the Mutiny Bill is annually p isse d (Hear I bear ! and isa coNantry where it is ooe of the prime features of the Constitution, V•at the Xing shall have oo clrmy that the Parliament has not confront over. Thr-, : e says. we haven Pot tad any th rig to do with the Coatitstioital .ny s what could be meant by that, he (tlr. a air i "•;arcely believed that he understood, for, sint-e that ta: 17 1 1, he did not know of any Pariiarnetary Army ; and the dis tmeian between Parliamentary and Royal Array was too ridiculous in the present day to read an. evicting or explaining. 'l be Arena of the Gauntry. and the Forces of the Sivereitin, the Right Honeur. able Gentleman seemed to consider as differer.:,•nd the Additional Force, or Parish P.;11, as only intend. ed to countervail the Rir.g's troops. What, how ever. could be said of his rrasimiag, when we were told, that that bill WAS to have the effect of te. i. mutely feeling and augmenting the Royal army. The array of Parliarr.ent, the Kira. Hon. Gentle man seemed to assume, was to check future Std Princes; bat of los Genuine Pariah Bill, the gre.t boast was, that the men rai.ed by it were all oar - - ccreei by officers o f the Crown (Hear! &sr !„/ and. Therefore the fancied balance ' s., to th.ae troope.w. , l completely de:tared. With respect to the segue anent on the policy of limirod serv'ce. *he Rght Hon. Gentleman says, that in France the attempt totally failed. It is true, tt i pt in I a:1, and again in . 1771, instances were f• n f some ticur.v.rracnce resulting from that clews-option oiaervice ; hut it ap., pea s, that in that interval (i pelted 0f.77 years) ran sheration of the sytem toilr • retort the our and only reasonal o to • rtn..v ins atLer usu. , i asi I fey" a h ta 'poi