The Sun. — London, England, 1807-04-16 00:00:00

Honourable Mover must therefore Forfeit the sup . port of those who, while they applauded the. late Ministry in Several points of their Adminis . thtiOn, were not disposed to give to, that 'Adrni ' nistration thenaunqualified approbatitin. He would not, on this occasion, go into an examination of the merits of the late Administration, or of tbe circum stances which led -to their dismissal. A particular re6ew of their public eats, few as they have been, it would require more than one night to accom plish .; and a general review might be produaive , of a delusive inferenth. •Whether the war had been carried on with the aetivity which the atiiiiirs nf Europe demanded? Whether every possible means bad been used :to excite the energies( of the people at home ? Whether the ' financial system had been' =ranged with ability ? Whether the recent accusa tions against a gallant Officer had - beeie protopted by private prejudice rather than -by public• duty These were point , on which he_ would not presume to determine. \Vial regard to the measure so honour able to humanity, which had at length been carried. into .effect—the Abolition of the Slave Trade (altho' the stigma of having allovVed it to remain so long could never be effaced)—the glory of that measure belonged to his Hon. Friend, in whose philanthropy it originated, and by. whose unwearied exertions it had at length been brought to a successful issue.— That the late Admi eist ration possessed ability he was ready to allow, but that ability, however great, by no means ,stultitied their opponents ; whose mee sores, if calculated, as.he was convinced they would. be, for the advantage of the country, the House, he trusted, would not suffer to be impeded by the ope ration of paripepirit. With regard,te what had (teen termed the tereas of a Right Hon Gentlern - an, he had said nothing that could be new to the House expectations of .a Dissolution had been very generally formed. Was the alAence of disguise censurable ? Besides, the Right Hon. Gentletuan did not make use of the expression which ha::: been alluded to as a threat; those alone converted it into a threat whi, siwiatiact, that by,any d e clara t i on f r o m an y man , i t h e Hotese of Commons could be deterred from doing their duty. With respect to the conduet of the pre sent Administration, he was confident that by an anxious desire,' to obtain Peace, if an lerineurible Peace were attainable ; if an ;honourable Peace were not attainable, by - a vigorous prosecution of the war in conjunction with our Allies—by a wise and per severing Attention to the proper management of the domestic concerns of thecountry, and by that elo quence which would enable them 10 refute their an tagonists, and to maintain the excellence of their own measures, his Majesty's present Ministers would se cure an influence matte Hoese, Over which the vice lence of opposition would be unable to triumph. Td what did the present MotiOn tend ? Not to shew that the Hbuse approved of several parts of the con di-la of the late Ministers, for that approbation had been expressed by their votes. Not to infohn the King of thy it merits, for, according to the statement made by a Noble Lord, his Majesty had expressed his approbation of their condo& up to the circum stance which led to their dismissal. The House had not been told of the answer made to the: approbation so expressed by the s,overeign. Would it not have been proper for the late Ministers, on quitting office, to assure his- Majesty, that in retiring from his ser vice, it was still their wish to support his.c..4overn-, mem ;—that they should be hippy of haVing the power to afford it their aid ;—that they knew their elismissal was occasioned by conscientious motives alone,;—and that sofar from she Wing any animosity against their successors, they were disposed byevery possible means to contribute to the success of those Measures which they Might bring forward for the service of the country ? Such ought to have been their language, but that such had been their language remained to be told. The general purport of the present question was evidently similar to that which had been proposed to the House, and which had been rejected by the House. Those who were blind to the tenor of the former question must see diStinate ly the tenor of the present question. For hiinself, he could say with the Hon. Mover, that he was un praL•tised in the ways of party ; and he could also say, that were power placed in other hands than those in which he wished - to see it placed, he should refrain from repining. Under the impression of the sentiments which he had thus submitted to the House, he would move the Order of the Day. Mr. 11 7 .411 D heartily concurred in the Resolution which had been propoSed. • No pains had' been spared-- . --no falsehood ebstained from, to persuade the public that the late Mieisteks, in their wish to - secure permanent power to themselves, had, not hesitated to insult their Sovereign s and, there fore, ,that they and their friends by Whom they bad been supported, in both Houses of Parliament, were enemies to their Sovereign. , For his part, had he seen any thing in the slightest degree irreverent in their behaviour to his MaieSqe he should have deserted theirs oe the instant ; for no one could be more sensible then himself what was due to a So vereign so venerable for his age, for the long pe-• riod during which he had reigned over his people,and for the paternal beeeficence of his sway.— He said thus much to clear himself from the as persions of anonymous libellers, who, assuming, however falsely, to 'speak the sentiments of the present Administratibn, leaded the late 'Ministers with abuse, notwithstanding the approbation which his Majesty had been graciously pleesed, to ex press of their conduct 'on their quitting office ; nothing could be more clear, concise, and satistitc tory, , titan the history of the transactions which bed led to their dismissal, ae they had beeh detailed' by a Noble Lord. In those transactions there appeared to be no scheme to insult their Sovereign—no at tempt to render themselves Maires du Pakiis.— Nor was there atiy: thing in their - conduct which oo imperiously compelled the Right Hon. Gentle man opposite - to exchange law for finance, that he might " stand, by the religion of the country," as' he expressed it in the advertisement to his constituents ; an advertisement of which, if he had not seen attached to it the signature of that respectable cheraaer, he should • have said, not that it was the production of a great lawyer—not that it was the produNion of a, wise minister —not that it was the prociation of au excellent man, but that it was the priAluftion of some mischievous incen- diary, anxious to,arul wan against man, and to throw the whole Empire into confjisiOn from one extremity to the other. Far was he front imputing any such motives to the Right Honourable Gentleman ; but tech wee the natural efic.tts to be expeded from a, • paper, which, except A Monlie'llf ifpAitical mosity, and too aspirinc , ambitiote, he was sure that that .tight Honourabla l'';ei;tiernau would -not have . prothulgated. The late Ministers had gives ep every thiug ni his Majesty which they could concede without disgrace : every thing but their principle s; their consistency, their horour, He must acknow ledge that, were he •to blame tllein for any thing, it would- be-on. different groends -from that -4,4 , lila had hi'therto been taken. .That they had zottlarenough in con c essi o n be Lad no douLt ; that eheY had gone' too far, he had a doubt. Mature.l.- cote sikring the rights and privileges of the People, as understoed in 'the best times of English History ,(he did not mean -the rights upheld by the rioters at Brentford, the . demagogues a: Chalk Farm, the in erieuers in the CorrespOnding Society, or even the mob hired to cry " Popery !");.it would perhaps have been better bad they not waited until the last disgrace was proposed for them behind the curtain, until - those conditions of ignominy were proposed for their acceptance. He would not-d well upon this point: he , would only 'say, that had they acted th119,- he for one would have stood by them, and would cheerfully have abided by the conequences. At a time when, by the re-Re - lion of a late- Revolutime in a neighbouring Country, the progress of political and 'religious toleration had been retarded by associating them with the ideas of rapine and massacre, had , his Majesty's late Ministers contri buted to this effea - , had they signed their own dis-' grace, had they promised never to do any thing more tbr that glorious cause which had- been becineathed to them by their illustrious' colleague, then, indeed, should he have deeply lamented such cOndua e bUt as it was, he sincerely regretted the change in Admi nistration, because, at a most critical period, it de prived.theiCing and the COuntry of the services of a• wise, active, and patriotic Government, and re placed that Government by one which, in althost . every respea, was its dire& opposite. The reform' made by-the: late Administration in the Public Ex penditure afforded a rare and brilliant example of a Government anxious to save the Public Money at the hazard of diminishing their own patronaee and emo luments. After a long and expensiv;War, they freed the House from the necessity of imposing taxes for many years (he. did not . mean to say that the pre sent MiniSters would abide by that plan), and by tlf e t Single at had done mere than had- been done by any single aa of any firmer Government to keep upitthe spirits of the people, and to incite thorn to vigorous exertions in the avefUl struggle in which Eu rope was engaged.. How far this projeteed benefit, by a wasteof millions to rouse unwilling Cabinets to ection, it was impossible to divine. Probably Eng lish gold, that was English labour, English misery, might be devoted to procere another third . day's vic tory at Austerlitz ; and he trusted that his namesake (Mr. Robert Ward), who could ,so happily change Weat into viaory, would be brought down by a special retainer, from the Admiralty to the Foreign Office, in order that he might • repeat his former operations. Of this he was convinced, that their purity ,and severity on the subjea of Finance hastened the fall, and would prevent the return to power,. of the late Administration. They were too diligent in investigating abuses not to ren der themselves the aversion of the whole band Of jobbers, - exposed to dete&ion by, their inexorable scrutiny.' But now they would be delivered from their terrors. The good old times had returned. They anticipated a laxity, which would again allow them to riot in 'the pillage of their country. The new GovernMent were aware bow much influence had been lost by their, predecessors on this subjeel, and how nnxch Might be gained by themselves. What must be the satisfaCtion of the whole class of Public depredators, to see recalled to his Majesty's Coun cils, that Nobleman, who, in his defence to the House ofCommons, or rather in his confesslo4, for so it better deserved to beeermed, had boldly avowed that a large sum of the public money had been en trusted to his care, of which he 'would never render any account. With what rapture must they hail this triumph of their tutelary deity over the fe 6 liaD of the country, and the authority of the Houe of Cominons ? for assuredly that. Administration could -not be considered as favourable to a good under standing between the Sovereign'and' the House of Commons; which had recommended' to kt isMa jesty to restore the Nobleman whom lie had men tioned to - a seat at tire Council Board,, while the Re solution of the Bth of April' remained still on-the' Journals. He would not say much of the successors of the late Administration, becaUse it was a more pleasing task to praise than .to blame. Whether he considered the means by which they had acquired power, or the means which they must be obliged to use to retain it, he considered their cotning into office as the most l a m enta bl e even t of th e ki nd that had occurred sinee th e b rea ki ng u p of the stretiori of the illnstrious Cleat-ham in 1763 ; a .transaction 'resembling the present ititcoh it tlierhaT poin t;, besides the secret influence by which produced. - 'Could the Country forget that these were the 'same Men, who, panic-struck, abandoned their offices on the death of their great leader, Mr. Pitt (a name which he could never mention without the highest respect and veneration), although the myrmidons did not allow the spoils of their departed chief to fall into the hands of the enemy, kit .kept their situations long enough to .enable them to take full possession of the spolia °pima ? Had not also the greatest part of them, with Mr. Pitt at their head, formerly given up office, because the Catholic Emancipation—the whole Catholic Email cipation—was refused ? While the last Administra tion proposed only a very small part of that measure, and when the King expressed his reluctance to it, consented that it should- be withdrawn ! Having obtained power by undue infinence, Ministers must keep it up by means which always supply the place of public confidence ; among these means he was sorry to hear that a profusion of honburs was to be bestowed. What then had the present Administra tion done, and what were they about to do ? First, they advised the Sovereign to violate the Constitu- tioti' by demanding fromthe late Ministers a pledge incompatible %vitt) their public duty ; they then ask ed his Majesty to grant them places tor lite, thus put ing it out of his power to pzinish them for any tiAture nuiconduet ; and now, if report spoke true, I iwy were about to advise that at one blow a mass of honours should be c,oferred, enough to support the due influence of the Crown for ten years, thus mort guging for that period the interests of the King.— Another intended step bad been mentioned—that )I:is M:tlesty possessed the right of dissolving Parlia -1)111. was undoubted ; but never sinte the,Acces sioncon4 the Royal Prerogative be exercised more objedionably than at the present moment.---Tile Right_ Hon. Gentleman 'Opposite, however, held Out a threat upon this subjed—with what propriety and dyeency he left it the House to determine.— Tl,ie,greatest Minister that this country had ever seen, whoseprdowidwisdom and commanding eloquence Might havejultitied hiM in assuming a high tone— evtn Mr.- Nt himself, in the meridian of his glory, glor,v \Vhich. he feared the present First Lord of the Treasury was not destined to rival) bad always treated : the `.olouse with respell, nor ever, at the close of a debate, when ii seemed probable that their de eision - would be againgt him, had lie threatened the Members, that he would send them back to their con stituents. He hoped the House of Commons would treat this threat as it deserved--with contempt and indignation ; it was a threat' which a strong Govern ' ment would despise to use, which a good Govern meat wotild be ashamed .to use. Mr. HA WKIA.St BROWNE thought the sense of the House had been sufficiently pronpunced on the objed of the. Motion of this night by the last division. He had apProVed Of some of the acts of the late Ad ministrati-on;- but he Was far from approving of all their alts.`. He looked upon the present AdMini stration as fully equal to the last in abilities, in tegrity; and:Jove *ot their country. But even if he bad looked upon the last Administration as un exceptionable, and the present as touch inferior . , he would not support a Motion which tended to set thq sense of the Ilon,se of Curt - Irma; in oppoimon to the prerogative of the Crown, unless the e4tstence of .the Country was absolutely in danger. Heapproved of the present Ministers as the followers of system, the system ,of Mr. Pitt, who had saved, the Country. The Membets of the late Administration had been , many of them supporters . of very. different systems, and they .were therefore the less to be relied on. He wished the present Ministers bad pledged. themselves against the Catholic Ques tion, but they had not, though such pledges were warranted by the pra&ice of the, Whig and Tory Ad ministrations of King William,: Queen Anne. and George 111. who had all pledged themselves vir tually to measures consistent-with. their principles. As to the capacity of the present Ministers, he 'thought the example of a Chancellor of the E xc h e _ quer, taken from the profession of the law, may , be well warranted by the - example of Mr. Pitt, who had not gone so far in the praaice of,the law as the' present Chancellor of the Exchequer. He con cluded with iMputing the blame of bringing 'his Majesty to the Bar of the Hous . e of Commons to the llite Mr. MACDONAL.D . '(son of the Chief Baron) Would not enter into an examination of the constitu tional arguments advanced on the other side, which may be safely left to have' their own weight. Ho thought it a grateful thing to have the opport•inity of bearing testimony to the opinion-the country had of the integrity and ability of the late Ministeri. At a time when all Europe looked 'to this country for such co-operation with the great Empire that de fended the rights of nations in the North, he thought it impolitic and unfortudate to put oat an able . and rtspeded Administration, to replace it with one of a rutile and infirm cqnstituticin, Mr. .TIGHE felt himself particularly called upon to take a part in this debate, as the County he had the honour to represent .was even in danger of having its tranquillity atleded by the proceedings on some of the points which were involved. The late Minis ters bad conducted Ihemselves in a manner which had done honour to themselves and given satisfaction to the country. In respea.to the public expenditure they had manifested a spirit of economy, in finance of tendefriess and judgment, in war of promptitude and decision, and in other 'part's of administration a principle of reform, whieh they had :established by the Abolition of the Slave 'Trade. They h a d done enough for themselves, but net fc.ir their coun try.--Sat sibi sed non putriee. He thought there' particularly to be commended for the constitutional principle on which they had retired from office,, re t fusing to give a pledge inconsistent with their duty. He condemned the cry of the. Church being in danger, and reprobated particularly. the Address to the inha bitants of Northampton, by the Right Honourable and Learned Chancellor of the Exchequer. If that Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been' Re presentative for Westminster,' instead of North ampton, and had circulated such hand-bills among his constituents, all the horrors of 1780 might have followed. That Right Honourable and Learned Gen tlernan, though holding hitilself forth as the cham pion-of the Church and State; had however stickled for an _office for life before: he would conic tbrward to defend them ; and would have had that office for life had not. the House s of Commons de barred him from the in tkested appointtnent. He reprobated the pledge refused by the late Ministers, and virtually acceded to by the present, He insisted on the pledges held, out by the Government Pamphlet, and by the speech of IV/r. Pitt on the question of the Union. All the prostitution of the public revenue, of seats in Parlias fluent, of offices of the law, of the dignities of the chureh i and of the peerage itself, which had been la vished on that occasion, would have failed, if the Ca. , tholic - BishopS had not been induced to influence their' 'priests, and the priests to influence the people to agree to the Union. The tranquillity of Ireland would be materially atieeted by the removal of the .Duke of Bedford, who; treading in the steps of his amiable predecessor, had done so much for the internal tran quillity- and prosperity of that country, He did not, however, see any ground for apprehending any alarming disturbance. When the mild liatory administration of Lord Fitz William had been . dissolved, a rebellion had been the consequence : but whatever disappointment may prevail tiOW:, no rebellion would follow, because the people of Ireland had beqn accustomed to view with , cold 'determined. apathy all changes in Administration here, as none of those changes were attended with any benefit to them. If the Bill, which had been brought in by the late Administration had passed; a new interest would have been created.— No recruit would be' had in the South, or in the, \Vest; because there was no security for 'the free' exerei,e of :Religion. A few years ago,- a Gen-, tleman. had got some men in his neighbourhood, upon his, own, pledge, and the pledge of a Rd- Man Catholic. Magisitrate, that they should al- . ways be -allowed the free exercise of 'their- religions but when .they arrived at their quarters in' the Vale of Wight, they were CoMpilled to attend-the Protestant - Worship, and forbid to attend ta , neigh bouring Chapelnf their own sea, under Vain of rrii.7 litary punishment. Consequentl y the recruiting proceeded but slowly in Ireland, though the country was poor, and ,the bounties otlred were high. it was fromea system of this kind that Irishmen had been driven to such military distiu&ion in the service of Foreign Potters, often fighting agaitel England, as at the battle of ,Fontenoy, where two Irish regiments saved the French army from destruc tion, and the French King from captivity. It Brie. lain opened her arms to the Catholics, how much more satisfied would they be to fight for. her national protetaion. But the pledge and promise of the e4 -.1 tension .of the Irish. Aa to Britain had existed thii - teen'years, without any step to realize it; anti ,when the step was at length taken, its progress was; stopped by secret advice.. He asked how a . cliffereut spirit of Legi s lati on , and n different sense of Abr: coronation Oath, could inertia in this Country stud in Ireland ) He asked also how a- Constitution so favoureble, to Catholics, as to allow them to be Members, of the Legislation, could be allowed to ,be formed for Canada,. and why similar liberality should not be exercised towards the Catholics of Ire land ?, Since the• Union Ireland had felt no comma- . pity of rights, no communityof commerce; the only community it telt, was that of having one hundred . assessors in the British Parliament, who, were td: give -effeatial.votes thr the interest of their country, as _he may do that night. The - Bill lately breught for— ward could make no change lit the -COnStitution of the Country, in Church or State. He should vote: contrary to his conscience, and the interest of country, if he - did not vote in favour of the :ate "Ad= ministration, and against the present. He trusted:the. Irish Catholics would meet the conscientious deteree mination of the Sovereign against them with the ree . spea due ,to the Father o f hi s P eop l e; au d, t h at t h e y would console themselves under present disappoint ment with the coriviaion that those who retired, from their offices because they . cou ld no t h o ld t h e ta without an unconstitutional pledg ee would retuta again' with the full and unprejudiced confidence. of their Sovereign to do justice to their merits. Jfr. ROBIXSON.said, the Nobleman who was , at the head of .the late Government was liabl e , " a s well as 111 r. Pitt,' to all the imputations cast by the • Hon. Gentleinan who spoke. last upon the breach of faith with respect to the Irish Catholics as conne6teel with the Union, He could not approve of the whole of the condua of the, late Ministers, nor could he agree to antevpte 'tending to the removal of the pre sent Ministers, without allowing them a fair trial. He had ever disapproved of the military measures of the late Administration, and the returns before the House confirmed his opinion. He particularly con demned the measures pursued - with .respect to the Volenteers e a ferce,which could never aga:n be or ganised, whatever Government may be in place, He was satisfied of the good effeds of the mild system introduced bY,,Lerd,Hardwickein Ireland. He mented on general grounds that the change in Ad ministration had taken place: But when he came to consider the circumstances of the delicate case lately laid before Parliament, he could not refuse his support to the present Ministers, so long as they deg served it. He could not condemn by anticipation; particularly under the circumstances in which the present Ministers were called to the helm. Mr. GORE lamt*ted , the efret9.s of tire mild sys tem of the Duke of Bedford. This system !ladled ter the murder of fire Men in one county,- in which 25 . men were now in rison for disatfeCtion. If these were the effects of the mild system of the Duke of Bedford,. he thought it :high time to introduce ther system. The sense the Irish Nation entertained of a proper system of Government, was manifest from the gratitude they felt for a Noble Lord (Corn wallis) on whose Staff he was proud to have served. He would have supported the Catholic Officers' Bill if it had been brought forward as likely to, be highly beneficial. But the late Ministers adopted that Bill only as a compromise to get rid of the larger Catho lic Question—a compromise - that was despised by the CatholicK He charged. the late Ministers with. omitting to serve the Catholics on the most essential points—ot the point of national education, without which it was nugatory to think .of ant , extension of rights to the lower classes. What had the late Mi nisters done towards this n ecessary di f f usion of knOW- e d ? e,...4e sad e. vl y e fromer:etrbecl clone any n eiiiiga. snrod oitri.c collecting g _ l q r y iha.pr thingtoy the 'S mischiefs f d s arising ? r o be rem e di e d i n Irel a nd. `t hne t . J — A Country was hardly used, • At random censur'd, .and at best abdsed. A country worthy of better treatment, and whose hardy sons, if properly encouraged, were the best bulwarks of Great Britain. Mr.ROScOE'thought. the strength of the Empire would be best'consulted at this - dangerous crisis, by attaching three or four millions of people, trot only to the Contitution, but to the Church Establishment. The Officers' Bill would, if carried into etle6l, have prevented the agitation of the general'Catholic Uues tion. Times and circumstances were entirely changed since the priVations imposed on the Cath o li cs were matter of just or necessary policy. There was now , ,no danger of 'a Popish Succession ; there was no ge neral Protestant cause in Europe. Catholics tk , ere our allies, and. Protestants were our enemies. Wit respect to the present Ministers, some of them were • unknown, and some had been, tried in the balance, and found wanting. Some of them hart rendered themselves obnoxious to a great part of the country.. The late Chancellor of the Exchequer had rendered himself estimable by essential services in his office.: The present Chancellor of the Exchequer was va luable only as he had given proofs in law of talents. that might ,possibly be afterweds e useful. in Fi nance. - The late Chancellor of the ExChequer had retired from office, alter real services, withoet any provision ; the present Chancellor of the Excheqeer had demanded the office,of Chancellor of the ; May - of Lancaster for lite as a reward for coming h i lt) office in ,defence of the Church 'and of the Preroga tive, of the Crown, to whose vilaication - he: Sc) pool pously stated himself to have been called. 1-L cerr• bared the requisition of the pledge, and. the skin of it by the present Ministers. He blareAt the present Mintsters for costing thertsponsibl-ny (,L1 Majesty alone. The con.iti'tntion, in - estaulishitig that the King did no wrong, established also that did-nothing without responsible advisers. It was. C 9; sential to Parliament to take care that. them *liert , • be Ministers free trout such unconstitetienai and. to prevent the Administration trot%