The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1822-03-12 00:00:00

Mir - ... entitled to leereemed alloalthatee, the mishoela 40,0001.; but that was • enet which sever Boppoee aft eit them bed claims of pee. the . oserfassen would be 64,4301. The evep tod woo Id Jewett these "me tit 41,6601. for sod 64,4301. for the mazhiume--beieg as be to 33,0001. is comparison of Padre. • sail mu other affica Irons which he pro some particulars. It was fbe Secretary A reduction of one person out of tbirty.ose The usirdwins total of salaries would stand i maximum at 06,300/. Reetuetioes of Wary, contemplation would brie' it down to 41,100/. Ailments it vu proposed to proceed I. • similar would nut be overstating the fact to sly that 'factions would amount altogether to twenty the existing salaries. In reviewing the departments, especially the revenue, it would have impossible fur Government to have made their noel, but for the grist assistance they had re • chief officers. Sometimes they had effected ' themselves, sumetisses they were compelled • on the reprentriations of these officers. the pain and &faculty which Government in preparing far the reduction of suck a l i office', which had mostly been filled by sa -1 the public, who, must now be deprived of comforts. He explained the danger of stienolstive principle of reward from Ave, and industrious sensate. There re branch of the statentest which he had to sub- House now to make. le the public offers I. regulation of the tame kind was gong on; they for she same ststerneuts, aud were about to pee same mode of arrangement. The propelled re were not in the same state of forwardeese English establishment, but be hoped it wool/ before they were in operation. It had already I to the House that there was aaother species of contemplated, sot proceediug ups. a prier:l9le necemaryto All on Parliament to adopt any a reduction of the 'darks °formers in the departments of the State, and is the Treasury mas • heppened not long ago town' to •vole nee of the office in the reign of Charles 11. from which it the salpries and other emoluments of the esiablistement were much greater io amount ,than at present. A very erroneous impres. generally entertained that the blither officers of l - •d larger salaries theta were necessary to the degree of dignity becoming their rack although the salaries were felt to be ao adequate to the rank sod responsibility of the r felt that in a time of great depression and safer. *acted all the interests of the costar], they • to partake in • fair proportion of the lee _ He had it therefore in commend from hie communicate to the House his Majesty's plea redoctiem of ten per cent. should be made on of these depart meats of the Household relating ediate service of hie Mainly 's person, namely, y Purse, the Lord Chamherlaia'a, the Master of ied the Muter of the Horse. The chalices for , which related to his Majesia's personal service, 300,0001. of which he Majesty had determined ',OOOl. fee the exigeacieouf the State.--(lien.)--. t House would go along with him to appreei. of such a sacrifice on the part of the Crows. all the higher Officers of the Stale bad given of their respective salaries. They, however, rivals fortunes of some !tied or other, and were all mere or lets able to sustain a endue income of their respective offices; but his Ms- House well knew, had no provision bet that made by the vole of Parliament; mid it wee only abridepenit of his personal expenses that he was -tit, that paternal feeling for the burdens and people which led him to forego so large a por e had been granted him for the online. ill , sod splendour becoming be exalted sta y that (settee his Majesty bed been reedy to cc. larger portion of the lumen assigned him, responsible advisers had felt it their duty to enem a° watrillice on the part of his Majesty should be reduce that income below the 'mutest which, if managed, would save him and the House the die '.f !ailing upon the country again to extricate • state of embarrassment; for they were that nothing could ever be more paisful to , doors derogatory from the dignity of the Crowe, lojstrioas to the country, then the resew"' of those tie so often took place is former times, from illibsvtl establishment of the evil list. He command from his Majesty to state, that 1 been ordered of 10 per cent, on the offices held during the pleasure of the mounting to five hundred ponds • year sad Maj. sty's Ministers had fill that it would not tteed to salaries of smaller amount, without the approbation of Parliament, that redue. Lord Cbaecellor and all other offerers hold. meets dining pleasure, whether its England 'to become subject. lie had further to ny, idiom was greeted be his Majesty for the period He hoped, therefore, that Ministers would v charge of desinag to throe any bordenupou which they were unwilling to subject them now, with the permission of the Committee, oar view the effect of the d forest measures proposed to submit to their consideration; show. .bat was the benefit which would immediately year accrue from them to the public; mid ...or hither benefit which might be expected to he when the regulations of the fevers' establishment s cemeolidated and brought into erodes' operate...— mould of twin( that wield be immediately effected super limn sad redeetioss is the differeat pub -71001 to the revenue departments the .cle was estimated at fotr per nat. because larger proportion of salaries less then 1001., eat Britain amount to 041,000/. The redue. aalaries cm the new establishment, in the year, would amount to 15,000/. He thought it • 00,0001.; but he wished to state it within the reduction in the eateries in the principal Of. would amount to 40,0001. In the charge for i tea the Civil List there would be • reduction And lastly, his Majesty's gracious donatios 30,000 L making • total saving to the country t year of 160,0001. exclusive of Ireland, white ise molt of the sevior, by the new arrange. • 31.000/. ; making to the whole about ire there was reason to hope that the amount mine considerate*. The meaut wide% be to save in the It department in Eng. state et about 30.0001 aud in the other of -100,0001. sod in Ireland at about 43,000/4 •r 173.0001. The whole permainiut saw. period and another to be expected as the 'e measures he estimated at about 400,000/. ight she credit with the Horne for having plan with the utmost impartiality, and fur oared to carry into effect the wish expressed foe economy, with a siueere desire... fares lieve the burden of the public establishments It would be remembered that those reduc. made in esiablisbmeon amounting to not ,000,0001. • year. Whatever the marmot of the to, it was not possible to take from them more spared without prejudice to the public service, ht it would be found the retreuchments which !bad tiers carried as far as they could be; that • would prove the seal of ilie Government for ire, and at the same time impartial, file, ind consideration towards those who were public service. He concluded by moving • he formation of a food to provide for the and retired allow of persons holding e Crown, by • dedortiou from the eateries of such offices, of 11. 10'. per cent, us every of which amounted to 50!. aid was less aroma ; of live per net. oat those the eels were 1001. mid upwards per annum; and of i the annant of the excess of all salaries of _ pennon soder the Crows above the soneout salary le he pod te the future holders of seek - • . . . • . - • . . ' • ,-, • .t. - '..... . . 41 . . Idedee ellelieeele ea drebahle. 'file Act 01810 west isle the parties entitled , . ease. witith characterised the pence who were to be es- would be 46,0001. shied is &tore to seperaeouailoo alloweecte, red spelled could hopen thei ) reds which Isere sot to be exceeded name he very pant- loured service, the calor cave, of the merit of which she, King's Council eel denies 'elected f le Treasury were to be the ledges. Gee expel. had Ow othefassoa. sod I ' bees immured sailer that Act, but set, us ft Weld be foserl, 50.000/. would be " ai acsi a s .4 m e e " i ''' .•4l MK ir.gorifi l .A., -"kith tiro. There was a 1 towt:011 WOMB it Move peed to select cot Thi.lil thhlt orb wee P.M awed b Why he- of State's o f f i ce. A fore years • a , aid thee set plthest cart& wee proem& 11 " 1 111111Pli.ffiffkiliQ eeesesit" heir ellameiellit •—• et 18,000 f., the tem i ' 31 1____,,brigA 4 / 0 4*** 1 . 1 "re lea tie nsig t4 be Aatt Mid Itawer•BY which were iv mete tlgtmeage• It would be heed' Met bad nee within it. In all the departure, 14* Mlidostaris whisb geoid halt delegef 4 W7 she eget' of menet It wneld ~ 1114.11111, sad the .seed sesame aid the septa Moe the eventual redact t e ortogree, which were mode est ht Nay last. ilivaapeld gaols pee cert. lee ell t 0 fda•ellearsete wbieh le had tomah *Wig ' , Wadi' chew with varies depareseut ,he little Jumada. Illeidess had terestresdemasd he cot bees nearly impel , . taints memeires kr thessehtedes el she pvellawl ealmelec inqairies effectual, . 1 ibtle who needs mat siiitattles le Whew. wire little mien' from the chi, leer* of the smithy and riper of redessolhatost which Mu- the iriqo fries of ibe Ninon had hem osemilled le allOreise. Ho called es tbe t a t e r altogether , Alvan t• ohterm thiliaperatios of go Act of 1810 i• eats- y e epatisted is 1 ' Weise eldest .f soperrosometies se the lam cad had eneeentered it twerlided department of the lassinessont, sad ceps. great var i e ty o r o il 1 in the raves.. deparberses. Roe am branch t ie , to of 11 is services (referring, we believe he said, to Scotland), their domestic coi • imbodisg lbs Conform s Excise, Stamps, ftecelvere.Geoeral , w ithd raw ing th e a Laud Tat, sad others, the eatemot of all the salaries was zealous, and gni, _1.104,000/. divided among 17,342. There entitled to super. melted one 'wend eameatlon were 1,732, and received 104,8091. twist an aye- mit to the House .Mratlto le ea the numbers,. and 91 per cent. on the sa. Ireland a ferillallt kit*. The average of the esperaressatiorie we. 891 ss. or b a d ai m e d f ur A n 1 4.. 10d. a day, which, tirkieg be great ealwries with the erred with the arm }hell, testa .easily he considered as too high for a (tonal re d uct i ons t h ere a eillege. The avenge period of service oh which thee! el:. p• those of the ling heasereee ea been granted was 39 year., or rather more. le 'net be long before illetwory department, including the chief officeitof the bee stated to the r... e g ic tr ee,, the member of persons being smaller, of higher dill- red eel ion content .....c . I.s 111 6 71 the engine wire not of the same character. The to. whirl rendered it n, qifir tai number le My last was 953, the superanousted 70-5 vote.: he meant a proportion of BSo 14. The reason of the difference we, wo e , d epartment , • stilt most of those Maps* were 'teammate' Is a great men- blishment. He h a pp ! See by Itaia...est to higher offices, erb ch they were not Recede of the of& woe anxious to trait. Their pay was 200,0001.; septettes. appeared t h at t h e fated •Iluwasees 13,00111. being 11/ per cent. or.. overage offices on the este 4111291. for sa average of 2111. years of service. For the at that period t h an . • Alseenae depertmest flee believe the Right Hon. Gentleman i g en ass 1„,, genet *MI) of !retired, the weathers employed were 18,219; super- th e Slate received earoutded peioess 1,11011; total pay 1,875,0001 ; supersets- we t utena ., ce o f a mirld hthrwlmoes ablest 100,0001.; average of verrealtea• and stelion ' • but • lidos shout out le en on the persons, lied nine sod more t h an s a rnatit i • • half per meat. ins the salaries for an average of a ffi rm the! felt the ,testy sire years' service. The Act provided a scale log, which *that for these allowances, by which twenty years' service eta. could ant refine t, Minted • claim for superannuation allowances of •ue.thlrd neral depression. a the salary, forty-five years two-thirds, and sixty-five Majesty to „ um , A ram threafourtbs, or whatever larrr proportion might be sure , th at a „d uct • limo* merited. One of the new measures would go to t h e u t er i,. of dm eicffify this claim, and proportion it to the intermediate Pe- to the immediate Mode of service. He peened to divide the time after Of. of the Privy Perm Sere rare (a shorter period of service to be no claim) to the Robes., sad vitt fel years, into divisions of live years each; the allowance t h es , o ffi e „ , g a d o go %erase one-twelfth on each of these smaller periods. Still amounted to 300, 0 %he Act was to be preserved, sod the full allowsece not to to give up 30,0001. lonterarded exert. is very particular tees which might be He trusted the lit seppoied to merit it. Such cases would seldom occur hi soya, sting the value of the ordinary offices, where the common course of promotion It w-s trite that at ves•W ledd a young asap up to sufficient advantages is the ap a prapartia„r 1 tune of time to compensate his service. But there .11 bail their priv were sitsetiows to which yoseg men could sever succeed, therefore they war brans. they required considerable experience or profe s. tion of the inane • I Mood knoll/ledge. Of this nature was the 11.1reiletraliip of i rsty , as t h e H os , the Treamery, wed others like it, which required high freetreal t e o e tterinence the power eistodo in the the dii i iiii to Govern- es of it.— w , hich was made b . e b nab a i n ed a t b o rid g ig ratif vara y • i ffleet to grant adequate retiring alienate beyond the & screws of hie pe , sates stela] in the Act of 1810, such caeca to be suet,- tion of the income , cloudy laid before Parliament, with the reasons is detail Rance of the dignit ter gneiss the additional rate of allowaace. He proposed non. Actuated byte es erten an important defect in that Act by the pre s et Bill, /impish* still tart 1 / 2 1 lr dir y baying all the offices emitting the holder* to claim su pe r . evated allowances scheduled with the Bill, and thee hut his reponsibli mend that go seer wares speciled which In the judgmeut of the Trearery were allowed to reduce lobe entitled to receive higher than the venal rate* of allow. Judiciously meow anat. It had been in the consideration of Government, by p 5 , 46 ,1 t ", of e. Way of saving some of the money greeted is retired allow. the Crown from • 1 ems, to require the persons holding offices to contribute , f u ll y conv i nce d t h e ;. , oeinettling yearly tweeds that own cope lie% Parlisment, more 4 I . ' Med. As the preciple might ow various groom , " be ; and mere injeriour objected to, it, bad. beets determined to take is at the di seuei t o „, which ilinest: tiro per cont. an salaries above 1801.; 21 per . t h e warms , sa d ; l b edit oa salaries from 501. to 1001. It would be seen Mel b e d it further is c dill average of seperannisstion allowance, was altogether. , a redaction bad shoat 10 pit cent. on the salaries, which would be saved by, euivivies u f a l l of dile tax lea Ballwin to the amount of about one half. He c mao sw „ ot i o weld proper a Bill to the Committee, 'mooting a redUC. upwind,. His Ms, eke of lee per cont. on sslarie., to be carried to a super. h a Droner to rite ., weisteation fund. lie had thought that this 'election (mein sa al t , tt ` tiair it the TO go beyond five per sent. oe office which were to be re. t he which the I deed, Thee who held them at omen, at fell eateries, tog their appoint. 4 : ....„ be required to contribute more that live per meat. H. or Ireleed, were to would propose, for instance, in an office which weal° be re- that this redisclie domed from 1,0001. to 1001. that the bolder should pay fits ii o f . a„ " en. H e per cent: on the 900/. arid tea per cent. on the 201/... , be freed from thee' said it ahead be reduced—so that the redaction should. ' o w i r ief„,ore to in that case be limy pounds Instead of fifty pounds ow elves He would n • Use Loot. Ad to the general plan of reducing all' brier together ie 0, offices 25 per rest. which bad been recommended, it would! which he propose , hotfooted too diemit to accomplish, however easy It might. Is,, Ow. w h at n ' id is couversellon The Right Hos. Gentleman thee Nth present yea 1 . era a vi d s neri re ariti li t 6 r n ed o e f e l t he ioa eo e u f rie oll a c d e o s p . teti Tte b e y li G r.t ver s n te a P i t n a t t r e: , .211.1111100,4„jiWthehatet fmt the Lords of the Treasury was in the revieioe of their were „ weolidete d f . ems odors. ' He woeld give the House a brief statemest 4 The *mouse of sal , • viotim had been, what woe, and what was Weeded to he Os , py. th e super 1 i ' *.tale establishment of the Treasury. By • Rem:Oahe* air' . lie, tacos was II the House in 1797, in a toptieg the Report of their, tea ' siagionos, which • - 'ediftee. rho Treasury we to nand al the Committee t.o•oll' , d am was a i sm ' 11111 1791. II leis to motorist of two Secretaries, fuer Chief wood is Great S *Arks, six Senior Clerks, six Assistant Clerks, ten Super- tioe to t h e ea t s , i altmeriries, sod two others-30 in all. Their salaries at preseat year won ' AO tine amounted altogether to 20,0001 a year. Additions "eight be 210 00 1 • .tare made daring the war to several of these classes, mart. The redo, wden. number forty-three; they had bees sub- l eers o f Elsie „, ' ' tly Oa 1821) iocressed to ifty.ame—as addition of E.the Household on sr pewees. This wee accounted for by the difference of 25 , 0001 . A n d NI illte elsantity of besiness. In 1797, there were 4,462 m a osoie d to 3 0.0 registered and tendered in the Treasury; is fur l b, pre „„ it yee 1 ` dr i there were 24,890, belt an Increase of nearly h e imamate,' she isis-finarths of business to be doe by an hicrease of aa „ ts, at s h out only 16 persons in 43. The Secretaries received, in 280,0001. In rata, 188040 /1, Maid 3.4001. a year. le 1779 80-81, the m u s h' b e muc h is • elliwy rose to 03001. In 1717 it was egais lowered 4 t a m s " expected 1, SSW. From 1800 to 1808 it was about 4,11001. He pro. 1„4 b e wou ld et if to ream it to 3,404, the standard of 1769 or 1716.:• • g ee , at a b out 10 Ir e :ropreed similar certalhaeole on she pay of the eider.' a s k i ng tog , o we I „. clerks. At oho same lime, the Hour* ought to sate norree a , itas at one peeio Abet *hem It was proposed to reduce offices uf this kind to 1 r e su l t of t h ew u /.. . 1 what they were forty or 14 years ago, those offices were : He h ope d h e w i g s *afar more valuable thee they were at present, from the I arranged ibis plat termer .of smelt places, mach more •swierous 'hut they b ay i ng „de,‘„„ some sow, which were at she gift of the holders. Hs pro. by p„b eineut r ot il• • posed to reduce the salaries uf the chief cleat, from 1,6001. . pram,. to mire, t tiel,llool. It was proposed to Ix the number of theb. „ o h o oweetry . I ereoas at thirty six (they were thirty in 1796), brio/ 1 sha m b e g b ees n trees less than in January last. A question had arises 1 more th•n 2,000,0 et to the best means of remunerating services, whether establishments, it it shosld be left entirety to the succession of offices, thou could be 'pet brwhicb Mee@ many deeerviug penman would be kept from sod he 'bought it ' thole due reward through the *Lets of longevity is their pre- i had been made be Assessers, or of it would nut be better to award a direst le. i t h ey were suc h as , avow of allowance on the accumulation of the. period .r Of public welfare smoke. He tbouabt the latter plow the bel e Cad should I . and lent by a kit "meow a scale of I , of which the fidlowtne might ' t et/gaged in the pt do fOr a sample I—./entor clerks entering at 1001. to bit". ' res o luti o n f o r iht me increase 11 , 1 1 0 e ten yes" to 'go on imicreasillg sup stun • lift a yew to oho bights*? entering at 300 offices under lb. is lacrosse by . n the year di .bed 6001. from an d anto i an , en e s 0 esbeace they might for 10 61 meritorious office, the salary erne.. rim r.... 10 7201. bees mot V. than mu/. per a im Hier girlie, some ours Math of . N.. pg•r.d ries uf which were . Inestele two aggregate sleet of the t h is I . tea per nut. me e 1 woe ore.. The' total sesoult lee ilablehi la •• w" I oases held by pet 20004 p elider a year. The' , e mod add Nil al for see- lied as the salad vice M the present papiod t Iran Zilln. .11010 at aim. 1 . ~ 4 f 4 f 4 . . , . ---..... . , . . . t . . , .. . 7. .1! 1 - 7 -7 ;." " 1 4 V77 - 7 - ' ri - Mr. BANKER SW he was Me the Selig Mead p slang With hi. is the expstataltes of its wait greeted atknossiedg meets to Ms Majesty fee the commuoitetiste whisk he had been graciously pleated ite direst to be made to them— ' (Cheers)—bet with regard to sem perie of the arittemeut w►irh they bad heard fres the Right Hon. Gentleman, he was not folly prepared to agree le them, as they struck M. at present. The stale-ofooperemmatiee etreelied to betrodeed upon the present amounts 'of the salaries of the different ofilces; .but when it was 4:coedited that many of those eel& ries had been considerably increased within • few years, and that they had been greatly augmented by the alteration of the currency, he coed not thick it fair to leave those permits is the full possession of such augmented incomes at a pe riod when the state of the coyote, was such as called loudly on Parliareeot for a diminution of its burdens. He recol lected that many "cleaners bad, is the extravagance of the times, been carried further Mee they ought to be, sad now they ought to strike off the Increase which had been made le the last len or Anse. years. He could not approve altogether of the Axed scale, and of the mode of allowing the superannuation...-. He thought the period was too short in many instances, hi which persoes were to become entitled to superenonation on their full salaries. The scale which was to be adopted el • larger degree of remuneration than eras in the oontemplstioa of Mr. Primeval, sod those who aepported the Pension Bill. It also extended the allowance fir superannuation to per sons whom be could not look epee es entitled to such a pro vision. The Solicitor of the Trtewerle fur jorliure -- (Hea r s bear!)—Upon w►at principle was it that a penes embat kiug le the public service is • prerelease' capacity 'ethos ►e had mentioned, claimed an indeateity against silage\ ateerie geodes as others is the saute profeasioo were liable to, led to a provision against future casualties to which every other pigeon was subject. He @hoed like to heves relent eel avg. meetatione of salaries for • attain number of years past, mud then to have a proportionate ',docile made fermi euch r e part of the *moue so reduced to he approprioted to tileformatios of a seperannostion fund. He did imitator whether it was the ititention of the Right Hun. Gentleman to call ott the Committee to come to a decision on the plan which be had submitted that evening ; if no, he feared he could not give it his •vent soul be was better informed of the details. He gave the Right Hen Gentleman full er-dit fur the spirit with which he had entered Into the invest teatime of the 'object of the reductions in the several branches of the civil service of the country, and he thought be had effected • greet deal. No . thing gave him greater pl than the latter-part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech; and he thought the House ought to sek•oeledge with gratitude the very gracious man ner in which his Majesty had been pleased to make the communication they had beard.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he thought the best course for the House to pursue was to pass the present resolution, for the pernose of enabling him to found a Bill thereon, which it would be has wish to render as g Ily acceptable as possible. Mr. M A RRYATT said, that one decided objectind which be felt to the prl nciple of the superannuation scheme was, that it made no difference between 'merit and demerit, activity and indolence; but made the same provision for the argil gent end the diligent—the moot useful and the most stupid clerk that ever west into an oilier. He doubted whether the system were not so radically bad, a; to reader it preferable to abolish it altogether than to make any attempt to amend it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had not, ►e contended, made his statement so folly as be ought. He nbould have given them an account of all the civil officers, with their an peranotiations, pensions, and retired allowances, and also the increase of t►eir respective salaries for a number of yr an past. The Hon. Member them recited in detail from returns before the House the scale of the establishments of arveratof the public uMcee, wit► the amounts of soperannuesiuns and other allowances, end contended that the lamer were extra vagantly disproportieeed to the amoent soil necessities of the service. Returning to t►e sew plan, he asked, what did the clerks is the °Mere themselves sly us the subject? They remonstrated most Messily against the scheme ; they said, that an absolute puling gain of 180,0001. would be made out of Ike hundred clerk. ; they told the Go vernment that they meld do better for themselves than the Goveremeet by this plan proposed to do foe !Mai, by laying out the amount proposed to be taken from them is life insurances, or at composed interest. The *openwork lino plait would make a provision for the clerk himself while he lived, bet it pot it out of, his pewev.to provide for his wife sad family as he might by a prim.. application of the ammo( thereby deducted frum 'his salary. On the ground of moral principle, therefore, this plan was not to be defended. The clerks farther stated, that the Ave per cent. which was too much to take from them, would cost the public VI per rent, by the increase and abuse in the grant ; log of the superannuation,. He (Mr. NI.) believed that the Act 60 Geo. 111. was carried much further !ban it was Intended. The word soperennuatiou" carried its owe meaning along with it. It was never Intended that any man sh•teld have such an allowance antil he was by ielleatity rens dered unable to discharge the duties of his office; hut It was notorious to all the world that many young men were to be found walking the streets of ibis tows la health and indolence upon superannuated allowances. It also frequently happened that persons who had been wise led from one ogee, were afterwards, through 'merest. appointed to *these more lucrative, and often retained the superannuation allowance of the Looser office, while they were on She actual establietroneut of another. The whole plan eppesred to him se defective, se liable to abuse, and so utterly objectionable, tbsi he thought the better course would be to leave the clerk, as they themselves preyed, to the dictates of their owe prudence sod the results of their own conduct, and even repeal the Act of 60 George Ill.; sod that course be recommended the Committee to adopt. Mr. HUME perfectly concurred in what had fallen from the Honourable Member who had just down, and in the suggestion of the Hon. Member for Curfe Cast le( Mr. &likes), not to pass this resolution that night. The evil of ibis plan of a Axed scale of aisperammatiou wee perceptible in every department. In the Cullom-house she charge ow the rupee sun ostlers fund had increased In a few years from 15,0001.10 98,0001. l• the Navy Estimates there were two Chap loins to a certain chapel; one of them was removed to a particular plate whore he still remnined—(Latighter)—and afire two year. and a half of advice, was superaunnsted.— If the House wished to reduce the immense charge which the conetry already had to sustain on this head, be thought it had better leave the individuals to provide for themeades as they thought proper out of their salaries. Arid what, after all the boasted exertions of the Right lion. Gentle man, was the mighty advantage which the country were to reap from his I sof economy, and Ma extousive strum is the public oaken ? Whet •tdsial be Hai amount of she if/- firedog is. this reseal' year la the words of the Right Honourable Gentleness) Aiseself it . would be 168,0001. Isle Great Britain, and 81114/01. fur Ireland. Really lie could slot cooratulate the.ilimse on such a saving. He could See no comae fur thankfulutars,when they were told that out of a charge of 857,0001. for the Civil List alone, it was eow ceded that 53,0001. was s suffkieut redaction. The lota siding they were to look fur in a charge of 4,200,0001. was tOO,OOO/. It. 1796, the charge fur the Treasury establishment was 20,0001. The minimum to which it could be reduced by the preseut plan was 41,0001; its premed amount was 66,000 L, sad the proposed re auction would make it 4110004 rid ultimately it was to be brouolit doom to 42,0001. which was double its amount iu 1796.—(The Chancellor of the Exchequer acid, scrod the table, that the amount in 1796, was 30,0001., and Mr. Rome then continued.)—The ultimate redactors+ con- ' ' 'enfolded would leave the charge for the establishment at 42.000/., which was. then, 12,0001. more than la 1796. He confessed himself fur use quite disappointed, and he erred with dm Husioarablis clamber for Corfr Castle, that they ought to suspend their vote till the whole of the details were before them, so that May could ge folly into the sub. ject. The Right Hun. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was an interested guardian of therahlie purse; be would be rather disposed to favour the super lion of air individual, in order that he might have the power of Ailing up the ofiles; and it was better to put him out of the reach Of this lealgitatiosi to transgress the rules of publieeconomy. With respect to the obstreatioss of the Right Honourpro Gestlema§ ea the male of the Civil List, he could not feel tbiejest ice of the remark about the pMer mid diegrae• of di stillates iato tbs expeaditsre lathe Civil List. The •necer skies or the Stoioreleind that they should examine onlast•iy --- . -! .. „-.-: ... nery breath 6f Eakt public expeaditare, tea Alt Mt sad ewe jetties should be dosieto all. Mt. SWART WORTLEY thought the Ma. Mabee 'for Aberdeen mistaken is his statement cattier redeletian in the Civil List mentioned by the Chtetellor Grille Iltrebenser. With respect to what had fallen from the Hun. Member fur ; Sandwich (Mr. Marryatt) cuocerning the slope tion I fend, It appeared is bleats mien iamb Tout t irairtrePtliy of their serious considelation, and be thought the Com- ! orifice had better weigh well whether it would be preferable ; to continue that fund, or In leave the individuals to provide I for themselves oat of an ef f icient salary. i The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he was sure it had never mitered the inteutiou of his Right Hon. Friend that say Member agreeing to this resolution should pledge • himself as to the vote which be should give*, any part of the details of the plan which he had stated, before the de- 3 tails were fully gime into. Bat as it was necessary that i a vote on the subject sboutd be come to in the C. . mittre, without which it was not possible to obtain leave to ! bring in a Bill, be had therefore moved • Resolatimsp ' and he bad R Bill ready prepared, which he would bays print. eat as loon ss possible, and it would he found to contain the .. Wiest infotmation on the details of the plan, and the re- turas from the public office. on which it was founded. it was impossible without that fur the Hon. Member to loader. stead the details of the plan of his Right Hon. Friend, end he therefore hoped the Committee would allow the Reedy lion to pass, that the Bill might be brought in and printed, and that time might be given to Gentlemen to examine the plea, and see is what they disagreed Amu it. He did nut mean to deny that the existing Act was open to abase; but he thought • fair answer was given to the charge of abuse, in its actual application, by the statement of his Right Hon. . Friend, which 'hewed that there were 1,800 individuals now on the supertanuation bets of the me and political de- PUtlaenti• the average number of years of whose service was between 29 sod 30 each and lb* average of whose ages Ores 65 years. That, IF thought, was sufficient evidence of ilie absence of abuse in the general practice of the sups • lion at present. The Hon. Member for Sandwich (Mr. Merryitit) thought it better to do away with superaneuatio• altogether, and to leave the individuals to exercise their own discretion and judgment, according to moral Muesli, and to provide fur their families according to the dictates of their prudence. But suppose they there'd not so provide; sup pose a man, at a late period of lifka, after • service of fifty years perhaps, become. a tad clerk, and it is desirable to get him removed from the office, were they to turn him out without any provision for himself ur family, or any mesas to procure them a maintenance? General theories were not good tbiup at any time ; but that was a theory on which neither ibis ace any other country ever would att. For what would be the euestquence ? They would not ettoove to tuns out a person unprovided for, after fifty years servi tilde, and be must be suffered to remain i• the office, to the detriment of the public aevvice. The Honouruble Member would allow ham to !geestion ilia correctness of the fact, which seemed to hies attucic bisobeervation, that she at were tilled with young men walking about doh.' nu thing, and hying io - idleness on super hoe pensions; fur his owe (Lord Losdonderry's) part, he had not been fortunate enough to fall in wish them. He con fessed that the principle of an unlimited fend for su perannuations might be objectionable; but his Right Ho- pourable Fries,' tutended to introduce a Watery check to ' that principle, sod to Ss • certain amount beyond which the fund should nut go, whatever might be the number of twit cants entitled by length of service to their super !suns, sod in the course of a few years the clerks themselves would be an effectual check ini improper applications of the food to persons sot It objects for superamiustiow . The returns from which the Hos. Member had made hie statement, t bat the charge on the public would amount so o lib per cent. contained not only the superannuation+ from the Aim now existing, bet also the provisions for persona removed from offices, which it had been thought proper to abolish; so that his shitement of the operation of the Bill was inflated by what butt no coaaesion with it, sad it would be found on rumination, that the charge did sot go beyond what it had heen stated as, 10 per emit. With respect to the Gimes@ of the proposal, be Omaght he might properly congratulate Ibis Right Hon. Friend a the low tomer the H 0,,. Member fur Aberdeen. Never had be heard the Honourable Member so flat in bier tone before—. (Leugister).—he sever heard him speck in so small a hey as he had done oa that oreasion—(Laugher)—and be thought he bad a fair right, therefore, to poems, that the Hos. Member had out been side to make out so strong a ease as usual against his Right Hon., Friend. The Hen. Mem bee was mistaken in his spplicaties of the prewst saving of 200,0001. and ultimately of 400,1/001. to an expenditure of 4„000,000t. He apprehended be must have included in that calculation his old grievauce of the expense of collection of the Revenue. It only applied to 1,000,0001. oat of the 4.000,0001. to which be alluded ; and the Hon. Member would hereafter dud that the charge for collection had sot bees overlooked, • but that a considerable reduction had bees effected in that also. Bat when the Hos Member said that a saving of WM per test. on an expenditure of 2,000,0001. fur the public offices of the country wag disappointing to the 'specialities of Perlis:teem, he must call ur the House to dilator such • statement, beesise that was not the way to encourage Moister, to pursue measures of eeittionty, but could (oily induce them to receive 'egg. atoms dam stature wilb•pithy and contempt, whew they found that the appetite of (bore she put them forth only increased with the su.tenarsce it received. The Noble Lord then proceeded to eulogise the paternal Isolicitude of his Majesty for the welfare of she country, sad referred to his giving up 50,0001. of the Civil List is 1817, 1 and 30,0001. on the pr. seat occasion to the exigencies of the i State, and his anxiety to make still larger menaces, bad not • his Ministers interpouid, iu order to secure the Crown from 1 future embarrassments in comic-yippee of those optimum' ase i ffefr t r i eodn. ., 36 the strongest and mast convincing proof te I of the deep interest his Majesty always felt when his people I Mr. H. G. BENNETT said, that after all that had been ! proved on the subject of 'artesian. on time mile of the House, i sod allowed on the other, it was too much to call on the Committee to agree by their vote to the principle of sorer ' association. The Noble Lord bad said there was nu danger of abuse, because the clerks in the offices would be • cheek on improper applications of the fetid ; but be (Mr. Sennett) should like to see what effect the representation uf a clerk iwould have ou the bead of • departmeut,s'r on • Minister who wished to cause a vacancy by • sopereennstion which be I might 611 by the appointment of some friend ur dee...ides,. 3 if these Genii...tee could not contrive to save something fur I the *option of themselves, their wires, and children, in old age, they must pay the penalty which attaches to such im pudence in every swher coudition of human life ; but to say , that the enisetry was to pay for their services, and the pc salty of their extravagance also was going, lee thought, a st 1 ile too far. He thought that the proposed reducttos from the junior clerks was too much, whilst that (tom the heads uf departments, from the Lords of the T y, for example, I was tun little ; the reductions ought to graduate downwards, 1 from the higher to the lower. Jo the present wanton. uf I the MAllittl, he considcred the salaries of those °deers es shogeilwe too large.. The offic. a of the Lord Steward and Lord Chamberlain Should be considered as offices uf honour, and ought not to bare any salary at all attached. is thought the House had begun mune wrong end, and whilst I they were culling at the salaries of the poor clerks, they olicauld also look to the enormous posh,. list. Tbe Noble Lord said, that it was nut 'lithos the province, cud he doubted *twitter it was in the power of the House of Cons : mons to diminish the Civil List, sod be bad quoted a speech of the late Mr. Fox to the same effeet. He (Mr. Ben. nett) denied that Mr. Fox had ever stated that. When Lord North took the same bold hate of conduct which the Noble Lord now took, Mr. Foe bell that it was the duty of the House to inquire into the Civil LIM, and to a apnea* or di minish it if they thought right, and be distinctly put the question of tight to Sir Fletcher Norton (the Chairman), who coincided • is. opiniou with him. That this was Mr. Fox's real opinion wee clear from the uniform tenor of all his speeches; where the Noble Lord could hove picked up his shreds and patches he was. at a. loss to know. He should gave oo "Pintos as the proposed arrangement till the papers which the Noble toed had promised were before the House. Is the Incas time be recommended the Noble Lord to take the odirice.of the Hoe. Member for Cork Castle,to look over the *bole of lbe pensioultst, and apply the same pleaded, iw.tleest wffiel be was now applying to the junior clerks. gr IYM. DISKESPIGNY expressed his gratitude sad ~. " ...,r,~ .... .. ~-• • . -,---- j et es i t nihe y, +h as let 's :l r d i Le . nalcointemionyliceal°tDeds binyittlX"llithetrHhoigneW:i! able Coatrooms. Mr. WA RRE wished to know if the Dish Civil Lietsa s to be modest the same regulations es the Esigledsl The m e ries of foreign Ambaimadors laid not he ro dimmest, menli,o: ed, bet he tbutight it was • subject worthy of ivlisidplei los ld Irb oa lpi t e y i :d el i- s e o h ia o f " g evut Parliament; e le ° r w l n ia t r ii n u b p : ll :o tc ab o bs erv e e t s e ie s ev ieh e tri ll • e s e s .1 c u e ww : oe t t h e : t h e e l a di t i u t n b l es d u : i nie v e i eatadebTot,l!l might u : ei p s ba 6i et : tie s p h 4. d ery Lh : l E : e ts l i n b l g a l hi lil o s e h l d tut 4ll" dte o c i as i o : l 9 l :o a ser e d isjed .ws el:r us li'f web : sa t i"lt ia l t e iept el attedi t fi N btede r h e m p a gu nieht n eb l i a ier t:i , o r i e n liu s o m ird isa pe id deli t t p h i soiretati e c it i l ey , 6 : i l l. aio •r e 7 &wady. 200,0001. wall; be believed, the exp. nee of mislie e e last year, which, at 10 per cent. gave 20.0 4 0/. la rep(, it what fall from the Won. Membe r fur fihrewsbe r y, certaisi• be might vole One the present resoistiori, without bring st MI mnienltted. Os the ilecond reading*? the EII he might VsSki principle, and in the Committee all The details. WI NN thought the prinetple trf surer a sound one. It was a common remark, that the faculties of Men were impaired by age, 188 11 before they is , re themselves aware of i t ; if adopting the *.station of Goatee's Opp*. site the delis, after 30 or 40 years service, being dismissed, might apply to the House of Commons ; but If that wen the regulatioe, every iodiriJral who was saperaimeated would apply to the House, and state his capacity to per m* all the duties of his office as well as ever. le Itstiitr d e p ot , mints this was observed, and In the instance of Lord Rasa. field, he believed so man could doubt that be reunified Ave years Chief Justice yf the King's Bench longer ;hag he ought. Upon the whole, he thought that white the average of soperannuatioo were 30 years of service and IS years of age, nu great degree of mismanagement could be irapard. No banker la that noose having a clerk, who i o e , 30 years of service was unable to maintain It fitting to say to him, " You ought to have sande sof. Actettey out of your salary to support you in yeareldige , It was said that all public Ware's should look te that these --even officers of the army and navy—bet inch Nene had b-en the constitution—the Crown always bad been (benne. btu of honour and resew', and if the principle We ft owe established, that persons were to look to that Heale,there would be an end of the Muairehy—(Hear, beer, Isear).- aild the Goyerumeot would at out! le eome a Repin e , The House was certsiuiy competent to look to say careen. lure of the Crown, and if they conaidere I the Civil List tims large they might throw upon it the payment of other see. vices, aid by that means reduce it. He perfectly od e ,. membered that, is 1802, Mr Fox did state in sabetsace shit the Noble Lord had said. He (Mr. Wynn) was of venues that nothing was more hope", r, or more treaded to dilatant' the respect due to the Crown; thaw continual scrutinies ism the Civil List; yet if it were to be admitted that the price of provisions being at present Is., was as argument for &minimum, then also, when they roe It would serve as a reason for an asigmeetattoo; 'adenosine delicate subject wuald be her continually upea, and .the end the interest of the public would suffer. To mart pemo larity, ao Administration might reduce the Civil List sow low, when It would necessarily become encumbered with debts, which, iu the result, would be more expeutire Asada prevent mode. Sir .1. 3. YORKE wished to know if any redraw ma contemplated in the allo•ances to the Royal Family, shell it should be remembered were intent off the Civil LW 't he Marquis of LONDONDERRY .aid, the season the Royal Family were removed from the Civil Let was, that us case of the demise of any one of them, the savieg seat accrue to the ',shine •id not to the Civil List. Mr. P. MOORE thought it right that the Hoare shield be put in possession of the evidroce which bad bees pea. lathed before the resuAll.otis were agreed to. He should Uteri:fore move that the Chairman report progress sad ask leave io sit again. He agreed .ilh the Right Huootralpit Gentlemen (Mr. Wyss), that frequent optkocitsos to Parliastent an the subject of the Ord L.t tiers tar proper. If be had had V • hualor of mistime ho Majesty, he certainly would rot have recommended my eacreacbehent en tie Privy Purse. The seat feel* pervaded the Committee wren fist to inquire tato the Free pert; of his lite Majesty. The Prory Porte the held • sacred; bet indepeodent of that the whole bf Omani Lit had always beer Node/ the euperveroiou of Parliament, and be never reeollected lie•roig any flints f.ll fruit 14r. 1 Fox to impugn that roincipk. This ems as atiesipt ter. vent ioeritigatioo. His Hon. Friend ( Ur. 11 tne); *lee bade' manfully looked auto the abuses in tor public aerostats, hut been attempted to tiepin down by reverts mad ridrrele; bethe (Mr. M) trusted that he would persevere. He (Mr. 11.)nd attempted it, but he had nobody to back him; bet his Mo. Friend bad •n oufailing Dieted in the public desires calamity, which be was afraid .0411 J stand by btu.—(A!agg9 The Chairman then put 11,41 gametic/3 for refirrrilit geese Mr. GIPPIi said& few words, which were inaiefibtilie tb galktry. Sir 111. W. RIDLEY begged to rallied his Eloocisritle Friend (Mr. P. Moore), that the reoulutioas did set go i.e detail, and woe not to be coistdeied as runrlndiag any gentleman from opposing valor the principle or detail at future stages. He thought the pi enclitic of surraussooo good when not carried to excess. H. should havesped with his Honourable Frieed, the Member fur Covesalol. instead of the silly Which Le bad Nest ioned, hi had said On it was the opinion of the coyote, which would sopped* Honourable Member for Aberdeen, there was s very le tiers! tbsagh erroneous opinion abroad, that the the Civil Lust was at the disposal of his Majesty, instead the very limited son which r.ally was at his blajeray's ea ; mated. With respect to the plan of the Right Hos. Ger tlensaa, there were some high ufcus lo which pension mash attach. Now he thought it would have been snore agrees* to the principle Idd dues by the Oilier:ell. , of the Es' chequer if these ()Meer, had paid 20 per cent. Mandel 10 per eclat. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER add, dun far as it was in the power of the Crown to male Ike arraar meats they world take place from the bib of Jsasary be The soperannu utiou election being dependent so ON I: tits of Parliament, could out of course take place liii was obtained. su per M r s L I C I oßs,dl though s h ie ld ad • i t u b st e deu rt t e sw t i tt ua l us le ,d , ! a year sow, blir s uar ete monu u .a i tt i ihe u re l ain d ela d h 'hel l veweo v fe e k:e d irl; en indcr ,: ellnliat : aloit:fil:es : ebteo lt itwEecihet : eht : 4":: : ba : ferns:ri .. tlese2ol;alibilla: F l: : °: ▪ sod he alto uoilioetood that the other part i es!! torthwe was undergoing a very strict revision. A :It; they had gone this appeared • very c o nsiderable fi n _ and, as far as he could ju•lge, very ettisfscr; could not but express his undivided vaii.firt:ou st of musieatrou . w e Some a eo t e tmr . 1 1 c t r t l thee—G b . u • u i ai r t e a r iw n oa l u :a to , J 1 e t a5 .1,.. * n:. might be t of wo w boeheusa b to ie ctet h hiuwii b c.hat e ese: : r eosf itr ui:ar.nen d i : ei a'b o tai i ssw l th o ugh'2l e b r :g e t:b most 6itt.waricm sati sfac t o r y. ao u g ht .leii:3 4Pon 'lb:11lee en 6 tly to wbagesji ; :1474- " Wvote up . us liM ed l , T . H u. e i x he press unde rd r. h l i e s nd re i : present.n w precluded t uwcua4f:Aiof CHANCELLOR e mer el y dei thought _s a e. i t n R Ay l f. preliminaryr t a f t t e rn e t a n d :hl:ea'. EXCHEQUERP: r i LI ! c ew1 1 :" Mr. P. MOORE waled the resolutions to be Pe . , oritibmedserlowtopcs:comeembEata.re7twrabem hereafter itehretoevtioodein.rde.: t_ ( I, be . j ee s n ur t i e .r d w. hiiteouthmwmEtpetdelisasihereeedshidtsourmainsogktiptitienhe,aich.ei::.hweceopr.eleuar:obberat beikeljeo were ß l l u h l : r e el et .p C H ila l tllre"C l amendment v ELl o s aWf under et°. that " ° P s t h ii d b r• : s r l e: ( se w . il a ". o l . 4o E t the. Q u(ef U t E w we ß i i rs ; e r:3 • id, " he m di ni d u e n o i t l eo h os ai l i d s e e r fl te e o m per d su er ch at a . re was a soaking re is Ow present cue. After • few words from the Nardi of Loodondeoi, ` f .. ~ • =II ii