The Sun. — London, England, 1802-12-18 00:00:00

ye hi n- re be awn d , :Pattatient, vet it af terwar d s appeared, ha's Li ie rap& in whi c h t h e Bill was framed, that the ' a rd of Admir a l t y was meant to h e exempte d ; f l r, as the Commissioners were from that to derive their chief information, it was not to he expeEted that the Admiralty would be its own accuser, and fuvrlish mater i als for crimination against itself.— _ ithout having had any communication on the sub sra, he had internal evidence to convince him that this Bill had not the concurrence or assist ance of the Officers of the Crown, nor had it the recotnmendation or co-operation of any of the other Boards. The measure indeed, tinder the direffion of legal and professional abilities, could not at first have appeared in so garbled a state.— Besides, he was far from being convinced of the ne cessity of such a step. Were the hands ache Navy and Admiralty Boards altogether tied ? Was there nothin g they could do in remedy of these abuses ? They had, at least acecording to every aCeount, fully dete&ed them, and if so, why did they not send t hem before the ordinary tribunals to see what re medy they could afford ? The objea of the Bill was evidently to extraft from delinquents evidence to be afterwards employed against themselves, which was contrary to the spirit and charafter of the Laws, an d of the British Constitution. This being the ea se, he must contend that it was not justified by t le etdent and that this was the first time that lA'nwer was given to any Commission to extort from 'Unguents evidence against themselves. e T he r -° e , " , ers ation to be so premature as to border on ir him'buslritY, and was apprehensive, of being thought h e f .`" going into the disorder he complained of, in - Tt ew observations with which he meant to detain f t -e flouse. The points in debate had best be re erred for the Committee on the Bill ; those who wished to meet its advocates upon the principle, had better defer their arguments for the third read_ t ing on to.mcrrow. O ne Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Iti gcEs) did not even confine himself to the case 'be fore him, but applied his arguments to the former 4-1 " 1 , which was now so materially altered. In no e ase, however, was the Board of Admiralty ex cluded from being subjdt to inquiry. It was to fur. t 'ish the. Commissioners with all :he information it Could afford, but they were by no means confined to that Board, as they were direfted to apply to every other source whence intelligence could be de. rived. Some of these observations came in a shape a littl e curious, and seemed calculated principally to impugn and cast suspicion on the motives of Govern. meat. The condua of the new Opposition was sin gular enough. Here the Government came forward to declare that the abuses did exist in a very serious degree. This was not denied by the new opposing Members, and a Noble Lord (It ateeE) in•parti tilar, who, however, sounded the\ tLumpet of alarm, 1 0 excite jealousy against the Ministers (a cry of 4 ear! hear ! loudly vociferated). The Gentlemen Ile apprehended who were so clamorous for procuring b e im , a hearing, were, perh a p s , ta ki n g the most effec tual means to prevent h i m from obta i n i ng one.— When Commissioners were appointed on former oc tasions for the Purpose of i nst i t uting inquiries, no such clam ours had been Noble L or d , and.othersseemed to think that all excited against them. The the__ objeas might b e as well attaine d b y means o f a C_ommittee o f t h e House of Commons ; but t h ey should ha ve reeo ll e a ed , that Committees were, in 30- far at least defe&ive; that they had not the power examining persons upon oath, which was granted I ° . Commissioners. As to the nbjeaion, that by the 'T II , delinquents might be compelled to criminate themselves, it would not have been stated if Gen_ He rren had the industry to examine it a little far- In ert where they would find a clause expressly in trcdoced to prevent the evidence of any, man from b e ing suffered to operate injuriously against him self. Dr. LAWRENCE co n sidered the whole o f t hi s d ebate to h ave b een mos t strielly within order. H e for One, thought it his duty to struggle against the Leasure. He was careless of what may be said about hts being in Opposition, but was not careless as to the issue of the question, and opposed giving this P o wer now, for it was the right of every Member t o Choose whatever stage he thought proper for go ing into a discussion. if there was thought to be any occasion for precipitancy, the present was the On ly good Opportunity that would occur for propos 4n,g any oblations. He did not think the - matter Should be suffered to remain for so bold and desperate a measure . Th e Ad m i ra lty an d N avy Boards had already stated the abuses, and why di t t l they not remove the Delinquents, or take some As the steps during their tour in the last'Summer ? the Bill stood now, every person who had, any thing to do with Contrafts or Prize-agency during War, would he subjeCt to the power of these 17 13 rnmissioners. There was not a Merchant there fore perhaps, nor a House in the City, that may not he liable to have the whole of their affairs over h''uled by them. The Bill of the year 5780, re- C ited abuses in the accounts of the Auditors of the -"llposts, long known to the Public, and proposed to , apply a remedy to them hut the Preamble of t ,nis Bill was genera l, an d equa ll y app li ca bl e to t h e ~,,treasury, or any ot h er D epartment w i t h t h e IN 'vY• The Treasurer and others it seemed were to be arraigned for having some stubborn and old_ a 'hioned notions, that this was a subje6i fitter for a Committee of the House of Commons, and it was very strange that such doftrine should have the r . l ',PPort o f a Mi n i ster, who had been so long i n the i - tlair of t h e H ouse, and Was so well acquainted with j s Constituti on . H e did not d eny t h e ex i stence o f ahuse, but no person would tell him how far 'ills po wer m i ght extend. If no one was to find testi mony to cr i m i nate himself, thea effa e would be bad as t h e other way, for the Com,nissioncrs Pleased, pow er to dire& their inqinries as they I t rased, they may'be sometimes i n d u ced to select c onfess greatest D e li nquents, who would have only to less to secure their impunity, while' the punish ment might fall on Merchants, or other guiltless Per s°ns remotely conneCted with them. There an excellent principle laid down some time since in one of the Coums, that no man ought to be .„."'Peiled to give evidence to degrade himself, but tins Bil l was altogether a departure from that rin ciPle, as lin quenc person could confess his own de without subjetti n c, l i i mse lf to &grab the CHANCELLOR of th,7 EXCHEQUER drew distinctions between the different Com Mi ssions alluded to—that of t7Bel, was a CoMMission of Accounts, but that of 17Se, a CoMmission of Inquiry like the present, wiiich had power to in quire, but none to punish. Mr. R.IFARD saw no reason why the Report should not now be re-committed. There was some apparent force in the observation, that a delay of six weeks might he no great matter in delaying the investiga tion of abuses which existed but for five years ; but the delay was of consequence, inasmuch as it gave notice to the delinquent, and allowed him a facility to escape, and withdraw himself from punishment. He believed the same powers were granted to the Commissioners appointed some time since to make inquiries in the West Indies, and the powers now proposed were more for obtaining information than the increase of any kind of jurisdiaion. The House having resolved itself into a Commit tee of the whole House upon the Bill, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob served, it had been considered proper that there should be two persons belonging to the Navy, and as the num ber was limited; one of the Gentlemen already nomi nated would, of course, go out, if another name was to be inserted. The name of Mr. Hunter had been inserted. He was a Gentleman of well known ex perience in business, and of diligence in the dispatch of it. It was not however necessary that he should have added to his present labours.any of the duty which the present Bill would impose on a Com missioner ; for which reason he - should propose that .the name of Mr. Hunter should be left out of the Bill, and the namf... of Henry Ni cholls, Esq. be inserted in its stead. Mr. Nicholls was an Officer whose charaler - stood as high as that of any Officer in the Service, and he wads the particular friend of Admiral LEV ESON GOWER, who was eminent i n the Service. He said this from report on which he could rely, but not on any personal acquaintance with Mr. Nicholls, for he had but once the happiness of being in company with that gallant Officer ; but the truth was, that he was guided upon this occasion by no other mo tive, than a conviction of the fitness of the person to the station he proposed to fill. He therefore, proposed, that the name of Mr. Hunter should be left out, and that of Mr. Nicholls be inserted in its stead, which, after a few words from Mr. MAN NING, was agreed to. The Committee proceeded in the Bill. Sir SIDNEY SM! ra proposed to include the Ord nance in it. I.9rd tIAWKESBURY observed, it was com petent to any Hon. Member to Ort,pose any sub stantive measure with regard to the Ordnance, as he might think fit ; but this was a - measure, the objea of which was to inquire into the Abuses of the Navy, and it was proper, in his opinion, that the different heads of the Service should be kept distinEt. This, after a few words from Lord TEMP LE and Lord PRony, was assented to. Lord GARDNER moved, thAt the Office of In speaor General of Naval Works be included.-- Agreed. e On the Clause empowering the Commissioners to examine parties upon oath, as to Abuses they may have been concerned in, a conversation of consider_ ably. length took place. Mr. STURGES, Lord TEMP LP , Mr. FON- L ANQU E, Dodor LA\VRENCE, and others, obj,a. ed to it, on the ground of its giving to the Commis sioners a power to call on persons, upon oath, to criminate themselves ; a principle, which they maintained to be hostile to the Constitution of Eng. land. The SOIACITOR-GENERAL, Mr. WARD, Mr. JAR v is, and others defended it, on the ground of its being absolutely necessary, in order to give efficacy to the measure, and also on its not being ne“; principle, but analogous to the power now H , sessed by the CommissiOncrs of Bankrupt ; an,i also on its being a condition in the Bill that no man shall be prosecuted criminally for any thing which he may disclose against himself on such exa mination. Lord GLENBERVIE proposed to obviate al ways objections to the mode of examining persons under the authority of this Bill, by inserting the word " lawful" in the clause, so that then no ques tion could' be asked a witness which could tend to criminate himself, such question being unlawful. The ATTORNEY GENERAL would not objeft to the introdudion of the word, since so great an authority seemed to he impressed with the necessity of it ; but he could not himself help thinking it superfluous, since no Aa of Parliament conveyed power to ask questions that were unlawful, nor could have that operation, unless it specified what the questions were. After some further conversation, the introduc tion of the word " lawful" was adopted. The only other material Amendments were the omission of the words which gave a power to the Commissioners to commit for contempt, and the introduction. of words enading that confessions on depositions of persons examined before the Com. missioners should not be nude use of against them in any "Criminal or Penal proceeding or Prosecu tion," except in cases of wilful and corrupt per jury, committed before the said Commissioners. - The Committee having gone through the Bill the house resumed. On the question that the Re port should be now received, Lord TEMFLE objected, that several Amend. ments having been made, the Bill ought to be re printed with those amendments, and the Report received to-morrow. The ATIORNEY-GENERAL observed, that the amendments had been very few, and such, as did not require the consideration wished for by the Noble Lord. Mr. ALEXANDER then brought up . the Report, which was read and agreed to, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Committees of Supply and Ways and Means, were deferred till Monday. ,The Irish Sugar Bill was read a second time. Mr. CORRY observed, that the English Sugar Bill, which was of the same nature as the Irish, being a stage.before the latter, he, wished the Irish Bill to be now cominitted, in order that it might keep pace with the other. The SPE AICEP said', Rich a praEtice was riot per fealy regular, but if the English Bill was delayed one stage, they might both go on together. The Bill was then ordered to be committed to morrow, The English Sugar Bill passed through a ,Com- Mittee—Report to . -morrow.—Adjourned at Eleven o'clock. MAILS. ARRIVED. nuE. Holland o French v - - - - - ------- Haaiburgh o - . - - PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT TWELVE O'CLOCK. COMBO'S - - THE SUN. SOLLIVI QUIS DICERS FALSUM AUD/LAS ? LONDON, DECEMBER IS, 1802. WE yesterday gave a Copy of the Bill brought in for appointing Commissioners to inquire into the. Abuses existing in the Naval Department of the Public Service ; but it has received such material alterations in the Committee, that we think it ne cessary to lay before our Readers the Amended Copy, which we are the more induced to do, from its being a measure of great importance and interest. It will• be found in our last Page. The KING slightly sprained his leg on Tuesday on mounting his horse, which prevented Hts MA- J ESTY from riding on Wednesday, but we are hap_ py to state, that he had perfeetly recovered from the effeas of the accident on Thursday. A report was yesterday circulated on the Stock Exchange, for the purpose no doubt of lowering the Funds, that Mr. PITT had died suddenly . at Bath on Thursday evening. This rumour was not believed, and the People will learn tvith heartfelt satisfaction, was wholly without foundation. STEPHEN RoLLEsToN, Esq. of the Foreign De partment, has succeeded to the appointment of Ga zette_Writer, in the room of the late WILLIAM FRASER, Esq. many years one of His Majesty's Under Secretaries of State for that Department. The Gazette of this day is expeded to contain an account of Mr. ND AS being created a Peer of the Realm, by the stile and title of Viscount IVIE LV IL LE of Melville Castle, Scotland. Yesterday a Court of Dire tors was held at the East India House, which adjourned at six o'clock till Tuesday next. The PRINCE of WALES gave a grand Dinner at the Pavilion at Brighton, on Sunday lacy, at which were present a great many of the Nubility and others. Baron Munchausen who was present, is said to have contributed much to the entertainment of the party. The Ceremony to• be observed after the accouche ment of the QUEEN of SWEDEN,- which is daily expeded, has been already settled by the Grand Marshal. The Dukes of SUDERMANIA and Osnt GOTH lA, the Elelor of BAVARIA, the Hereditary Pf i!leC of BADEN, the EMPRESS Of RusslA, ,he Dutchess of SUDERMANIA, the Princess SOPHIA `ALB RTINI, and the Eledress of BAVARIA are to be the Sponsors. _ _ l'he Officers of a Portuguese Frigate, which was some time since captured by the Algerines, haVe been lately, by order of the Dey, compelled to labour like the meanest slaves. The French Com missary has in vain complained of this conduCi as a violation of all usual custom. He was answered by the DRY, that be.wished anxiously to seize every 'opportunity of obliging the First Consul, but that in this case, strong reasons, known only to himself, induced him thus to treat the Portuguese. A violent storm happened at Nice on the 21st ult. which excited the greatest alarm, and was pro_ duffive of 'much mischief. The surrounding Country was inundated and the lower apartments of the houses overflowed. A great quantity of oil and wine were in consequence lost. The valley of Saint Etienne served as a bed for the waters, where a current formed itself, which in its court A . destroy_ ed a number of gardens full of oranges and citrons, whilst the wrecks of houses, large trees and cattle were seen floating with the torrent. The, moles of the Port were threatened with total destruCtion from the fury of the wavea. Some of the inhabi tants asserted that they felt a shock of an Earth quake in the night. The following melancholy report we have every reason to apprehend is too true. The wretched survi vors of the memorable shipwreck off Folk stone, after receiving all the comfort and assistance that a neigh. bourhood, whose humanity was deeply interested, could bestow, as soon as they recovered, were put on board the Dutchess of York, a vessel belonging to the Port of Dover, commanded by a young man of the name of Watson, in order that they might be conveyed to Flushing : they sailed in a fine and pro mising day, but in the course of the ensuing night it blew tremendously, and the next day the stern a a wreck was taken up by a Dover vessel off Calais, bearing the name of the Dutchess of York, and in every respeCt resembling that which belong. , ed to / the little sloop having these unfortunates on board ; so that it is a conjetture, almost amounting to a certainty, that they have all perished, and that neither their own struggles, which we're in the first instance effe&ual, noL the benevolent exertions of their fellow-Creature, to preserve them, could revoke their inevitable destiny—a watery grave. An unfortunate Maniac was yesterday brought before the Magistrates at the Police Office, in Marl borough -street, for having, with a knife, cut the throat of a child, in a dangerous degree, though hopes are entertained of the infant's recovery. It appearing that the man was severely suffering under all the horrors of mental derangement, the Magis trates humanely direeted him to be taken care of until he can be got into 13ethlem Hospital, _ NAVAL NEWS. ••••••eNiM•13..N..... PORTSMOUTH, DEC. 17. Ws hear that the Nelson Packet of this port, which sailed for Havre-de-Grace on the Bth and was supposed to be lost, is put into East Bouinc Roads, on the Coast of Sussex. Arrived the Tucker, Rica ARDSON, from Sunder- land. YARMOUTH, DEC. 17. ARRIVED in the Roads, the /10/i-, of Huil-; RICH. DOUGAL master; from Charar4e, witti brandy. This morning early; the Tbortai and Elizabeth; JOHN ANDERSON, of aria from London, bound to Newcastle, with oak-timber, got on Scroby Sand; where it is feared she will be lost. The CreW are all saved. Sailed the Tartar, DRAPER, Flora, ART'S, An rora, Moss, Exchange, BLY, and Young Richard, JAY, for Scotland ; Resolution, TtIRNEit, and Eliza. beth, TUMMON, for Hull: Arrived the Vestal, BAR aEg; from PcrtimoutlL, DEAL, DEC. i 7; TIIE Mary, of Yarmouth, ran on bciard.the izelope Frigate, and carried away the Frigate's jib boom, and spritsail-yard, and lost her own main • and mizen masts: Sailed the 13 ette . y . for India; with the whole of the outward-bound. THE THEATRE.—The sterling old Comedy of Every Man in his Humour, was represented again last night, at Drury-lane Theatre.—We are by no means disposed to revoke the favourable opinion we expressed respelling W,ROUGHTON'S Kitely, bat we cannot say that he is improved in his performance. He rendered it too much like his Ford, in ME Merry Wives of Windsor, though the parts are, in fad, essentially different. He was much to impe. mous, and was rather furious than suspicious. BAN NISTER does not seem to have re-considered the part of Bobadil. He is certainly below par in the charkter. We can excuse his effarts to raise a laugh, but nor quite so much at the expence of the ~.Aiithor, by the syueakinz tones which we before condemned, and which he still introduces. A con scious Coward would rather be rough than effeminate lhere,was but a scanty audience. Miss De CAMP is gone to the South of France s for the recovery of her health. She sailed on San . day last from Dover, on board the same packet with Mr. MAZZINGHI, the Composer, who is on his way to. join Lord CHOLMONDELEY, at Paris, and experienced a most dreadful sickness. The pasage was one of the quickest known, the vessel being m:ly two hours and forty minutes at sea. We are snrry to add, that Miss Dr, CAMP'S illness appeared of the most - alarming kind, and gave great anxiety to her friends for her safety. STEPHEN KEIsABLE set off yesterday from Town, not " as ballast in a Collier back," according t 3 his own humorous address, but " laden with wealth and honours fairly won." We have heard a very extraordinary story of a British Ojicer having lately been treated with great indignity and insult by the French Commis,ary MENGAUD, in a place of public resort at Calais : We forbear at present to give the name of the Gen tleman, lest our information should not be perfectly Correa. We understAnd that a Society is about to be formed for carrying on Entertainments in the Fa shionable Circles upon a superior scale. We con fess we are decided friends to any species of elegAnt. and innocent amusement that may supersede the necessity of introducing Cards or Gaming of any description. We regret to hear that a great number of our Nobility have an intention of passing their Christ mas in Paris, instead of, aeer,rding to good old t.u,tom, amongst .their own Tenantu: Two men have been taken up as suspicious cha. ratters, because their.clothes did notfit them. Thus a imn—i's reputation, in some degree, -depends upon his Tailor. A French Journali3t very gravely assures his readers, that the Judge and Jury before whom M. PE LTI L R (accused of writing irrevereirdy concern-. ing the . First Consul) is soon to appear, have already made up their minds, and unanimously resolved to send him to Botany Bay ! How enlightened, this Editor must be ! How welt acquainted Frenchmen are with our most sacred Institutions ! The Churchwardens of the Parish of Bishops ate, from motives of humanity, yesterday brought be fore the Lord Mayor Alin ilarris, an apprentice,. girl, of the age of r z years, who had the appear ance of being half-starved, and to have been beat in a mast shocking manner. Mr. Bencield, a respe:A, able inhabitant of that Parish, explained this circum stance to his Lordship. This child was brought in the arms of a woman, and appeared a iliost shocking object, being bruised from head to foot,. which she was scarce able to tell was done by her master, Mistress, and others, whom they authorized to beat her, because she did not do so much work as they thought proper, and that she got little or no vie. tuals. Ihree persons who lodged in the house with the master and mistress, confirmed the girl's statement : they had of:en seen and heard the girl beat, and knew they w ork e d from s ix i n t h e morning till eleven o'clock at night. The 1, - Trsons charged with this brutality said it was sickness and disease, and not cruel usage, which had reduced this girl. But no proof of any Do6for being em ployed, or medicine, was given. This .complaivtit requiring two Magistrates, and the attendance of a Surgeon, the farther hearing was put off to a future day. In the mean tune the Lord Mayor desirert the three apprentices might be removed to 8.,h0p... gate Wurkhouse.