The Sun. — London, England, 1813-04-02 00:00:00

' ' A• , . date•thfe 211.00(0)o' , and a iidressed. to A. Stewitrt (which. letti r x e r,d) , ,nr.cl.l tier PassAL:es taken m fro the Minutes of ,7xe a. Ile assumed; that the evidence wonhi tantiate his charge. It might, hinvever, he (I, that what the Doke of Cumberland' had ir is ill the, chara c t er of : ii trustee, which sit led that of a Peer or of skt:th `te Wer(;' set up, he took leave to suggest that w ere three other Trnstecs, all of Whom might aterfercd, if neceksat v, without offence ; bin that they we re sent out of the room, kept Highness, whose interference was a light have th e sole management. If then consulted propriety and its ho 7 1 ""st feet the 'necessity of taking no transaction, which, if they refused to Would furnish triumphant !natter of ar ' their worst enemies to use in support irliamentary Reform they , aimed at.— , to notice another fact of improper in which had nearly escaPed his memory. on th e evidence, that the Duke-of Cum ,d thought proper to possess himself of not oily so, but to pay a Price this (lid not rouse the House, he would ' t etalls of this kind fruitless, and rest tt lie had done his duty in bringing the 'rd. He then stated his intention, if was granted, and turned out to be of repres.anted, of proposing some ul !dings upon it, but did not say of -, He concluded by moving, "hid before the lionse, &Copy of sad parts befor e the Coo nnittee appointed to in ' Of the Election and Return for Wey- R-gis, as were not included in the Re :e in their special .report." Lon, observed upon the novelty efore the House, and the danger- t its tendency. When they referred *a Committee, they referred the whole 'ftec-ttal with it to their deliberation and "'ld nothing could -be more obviously that they ought as 'seldom as possible I re-investigate the evidence on which "'a had been come to by those to had so delegated their authority. The had stated, as a gr o un d f or acc edi ng "'in, that the Petition alleged the im 'terfere.nce. ,To him this appeared a very ' utn ent against the motion, for it spewed atttaltion of the Committee had been r tiie subj ect ; and, therefore, there was vasoa for the interposition of the House. ' tin " had also contained accusations of :hid against persons holding office; and 'Lea reach astonished that he was himselt 5 0 'pointed at. Knowing how utterly th is eilarge was, he was the more ready rtatii that the ch arge aga i nst the Duke of tiyttslatttg„any groundless. For himself attacks • • ll he never knew any thing of state he saw the publication of . the not menti of an advocate, who of course Iva Pi aa* 'lll7 •' o invalidate the cause tr thaz ig S uch publication he had a'-1 hav e b e p l „ "al have been taken, and that t could noR P rev eated ; for. a practice So the sha r e b "e s'nlction( e br,any party. As rim y st e at h ! (1 ,41 these terrible oti•encee, he t hatit • He had written 11' velati " his to W. k as h . is vote for a . par natiediti,,(l,ll,et to whom ask wished success. - ' 4 %*l%*, de -his - beother-in-latri and " r eaalul matter arrayed upagainst tl rn r h r o s sest •and most atrocious infringe 11%Athe electi ve franchise. But thereWElS t' } his diseovery than thi s : i t was f ou nd " his letter be had employed the plural 1 , 4 1 ' 1 1 said .t We" are desirous of his, being ingenatylworthy of the discoverers it Was argued, that he, , being a t ' n 'itaist er who tised the word, that there' it t ' e , wit all the C a bi net MiniSters, and then, ie et i,: t t , " i s ,e was. i a dreadful con s pi racy aga i ns t fv).. rancluse, n one of the m so li c iting a i tn i rritio from it relati on so near ly Alli e d ' II:) wondered what kind of accuse - ca n t.' , r he that wa s to be.: brought agahist i t ~_'l l s .solv e d hi s difficulty, and slimed him 7118 one, beyond What the tyranny ofiaco ttstif could indulge in, for that did not I , ne ll in Office from vot i ng t h emse l ves, or t `iiMs to their near relati o n s . Th e Coon ocCasion, he had heard, bad handled ; and of t hi s h e did not Com ; "lertly 'mentioned it to she w , th a t a s Gentleman had been so much, mis it b e It Win, it was' not improbable th a t he Iry error respecting the Duke of Cutn ric~ tithe circumstances relAting , to • whom H itt , a ubt highly co l oure d an d misrepresent ibat'ne great argument against the motion t he Committee bad had MI these mat " hit dire ct l y b efore them for their deli , and not seeing any ground to report ought to weigh strongly against the re-• \tio n of the subject. Upon these grounds as an amendment to pass to the other the dav .41:1/.11 having put the question, with the , ;:ttt, fin 'p ass i ng to the 'Weymouth Voters ing the next order of the (lay ; tilt Artkrtliari,ATKlNS having been the grgan ''t C°4lll tittte., begged to say it few words. e rred to their special Report, and contend :il.,any motion tor fresh evidence. which itututtee, to whose judtptient the House de k - , ir t v he il ", es tigation, had not thought to be t 4 tia ti , -,. ..i'lle Committee, Acting on oath, '111(1 i ti,, :u into all the, allegations contained in the ira tu.j they had found that which charged ,t•Pi.l.!'per iuterferenee of r- Peers to be unwo rise t‘liorting tip on. As an example of its na ersv°"l(l st:ite, that Lord Rivers was one of al q th 4 ' l . el "trg . ed, and one of the witnesses ika. vot "I t It Nvas said to a voter, " if you give ) t t i t ) u bei c t „ t r h , l . l ,l Yr'll will please Lord Rivers .". but t , 4 ,''! I , n ,'",'.,t'd " had the person any authority .11 4 " ao4:lo.l,lver3's name)." the answer was li Yne thou -lit it tvo.:lil be agreeable." thit. " ( ie iu z' ' ' , ti. i .tt't 1 144 trust have thought httle of the Corn 4b. 44 41 1tv g mitiileY troubled them with ra report upon I„ ( ,, t l ttil, Ii e 1" dwindled into 'such insignificance 14i t.itit ii ii ",7•Pressed a hope that the House , tii. tb e i t ..2, l 's it right ou light grounds. to.clis .,rter"tt- to which their Committee. had " 11 aati i: ` l '', liaxious discharge of - their duty ,r,•lth regard to his Royal Highness r • Ita%ing obtain:A possession of t 1 writ; he put it to the Chair and the Noose, if that had imt Veen the eonvellitni. i of ti:. election. No ill;proptir inotive It'ai - alleged—.-no g i f inproper use bad beet: nmde of it; hut- it bad been tat;en to le. f;.:•- wartled to its destination with every possible dis- patch, - , . • Mr.'W. WYNNE contended that the ar4nments of the last speaker were, totally subversive of the . rights or the Utilise, and of Efvetion Committees. The duty, of the latter was to decide upon the, seat, and with treat decision'their judicattre was.. closed. Any, other l.esylution they might come to, it was not imperative on the ilonse.tO receive. They had howei-er received a further report, and part of the evidence ; and he continued to be of opinion that they ought to have it all produced. The arguments on the other side had been no an swer to the Noble Lord, Who asserted that a breach of privilege had been coannitted. The Right 116 n. Gentleman (Mr. Long) thought the interference of the. Duke of Cumberland had been exaggerated, because the' represepreihnt respect ing his own he knew to by untrue. And the lion. Gentleman (M.r.Atkins) thought they bould not inquire into the interference. of the Noble Duke, though shewn by his oven* letter, because a charge without foundation had been made against Lord Rivers. Obtaining possession of the writ was, be argued, an offence in a Peer, though it was blameless in a Commoner; and though the House ought not lightly to re-discuss the matters which they had sent to a Committee; he thought there were sufficient gromids laid fot talt;ng such a step in the present instance. The independence and dignity of the House :required that they should accede to the motion on the ground laid down by the Noble Lord ; but even on the ground 'of further information being necessary to enable them to understand the Bill which stood next on their Orders, the production of the rest of .the 'minutes of evidence was necessary. Mr. BATHURST said, the last speaker had intro duced a new view of the question, and called up on them to accede to the motion, on the ground that the information called for was necessary to enable them to torm•an opinion of the Bill ,in pro gress through the House. The House had decid ed agaiiist till:; the other. night, and' he d ‘ oied that arty further evidence was necessary on this subject. All that related to the points to ssthich the report was directed was before them. He then came to the Noble Lord's argument, who had laid a case before them, with which, if they complied; it would he: the first example of the kind that butt evor been given. There was no doubt the House was competent to go into the matter if they thought fit, and he also agreed . with the last speaker, that the determinath , n -of the return was the definite object for an Election Committae.— But yet what the Committee did not think proper to bring form'. 4, was entitled 'to their respect, and ought not to be moved ) except on very strong grounds. If they went into such a practice of re forming the judgment of their-Committees op their. specialreports•e--it they took up. questions of this sort, they- did (whatever compliments tine : j may chuse to pay them at the time) call the Committee before their tribunal fir trial, in a case where they hart acted upon their oath, in the ceded% our faithfully to discharge the trust reposed in them. kle noticed the Electinu PetitiOn cr.ttn Westmin ster, svhicleby many was tht;ualit to be presented merely try-libel. the Haase ; tilt sti.ll7 . the, House would not act upon it, "but pursued the principle which dictated the reference of such matters to a Committee, upon whose report .they should act. By the Act of Parliament the Hotise did delegate its functions to its Conimittee; they did not ab rogate them now, as argued by. the Noble Lord, if they refused his Motion. As for the facts aSstimed by. the Noble Lord, he knew nothing:.. of thew; but he.knew that the Committee did not' think these matters worthy of a Report to the. House. • But even were 'a Committee to - be in error; it would be better that it should-be left so, than that by the interference of the House they should be placed in this obnoxious situation. Such a motion its that before them infringe:l on the principle on which their- Committees were founded, and as soda was the case, he should givehis vote for the Amendment. Sir J. NEwroRT thought that the Riebt Hon. Gentleman who spoke last had been eery incon sistent ; •for he had first , said that the decision of the Committee was conclusive, and the sentiments. contained, in thelatter part Of his speech were to thisralmost in direct contradiction. Nothing•could could be more clear than the interpetration of the law on which ,Committees ought ~ to ac.t. Would any man argue that it was nut interference for a Peer to possess 'himself of the writ, and also otherie wise to concern himself in the election ? It cer tainly was interference, and being interference ) it was a breach of privilege. It was neither an argu ment of justification nor 'of extenuatinn to Say, that although the Duke of Cumberland had pos session of the writ, it was forwarded with asmuch expedition as if he had •nothing to do with it. It might .have answered the end of the Peer to have the writ conveyed with expedition. The higiter the rank of the Peer who was guilty of the breach of privilege, the more,did it behove the House to be guarded anti circumspect in their decision for the, public would look with jealousy on their pro, ceedings, on account of the high rank of the Peer who was concerned.. He tout(' not belieVe that the House would. he guilty of any ju acceding so inconsistent, with its dignity, as to refuse those minutes which were to show whether or not ;here had been a breach of their privileges. Mr. Roil; conceived, that when the Legislature conferred upon Committees time -power of investi gating-;the merits of elections, it- •also determined to rest satisfied with the decision of -these Com mitteeS. He believed that there was no one in staoce to he fount! in the records of Parliament whi c h that House had required the produvtion of t iny thing beyond that which was -submitted to them by the Committee; it would . be bightv Convenient to have a -precedent establiSheil, hy which the Ileuse should be empowered in every case to investigate the proceedings of it. COttillitt tee; and so to have a distrust in the decision of those who had been solemnly sworn to try the me rits of any election. If such a' precedent was to be established, it would empower -the House not only to try the merits of the question of eleatiou, but also to try the conduct of every getaber of the Corn6ittee. Could the rilnottrible "Mernher pl'oduceany-iilitanre,..9l..6lo ll, tlt , e ft ~i~teti the prore.etfing of 1741,xtiOa •iphrting ot vott:s ltt tie I)9t.ltigii:i of e)inwath-.1;)L1 Meicombe Regis', was rertalhiv.,aa nht.-:e which calle4 for t. e i•iteyfereilee o the '..: 7 011,,e, mid which prev.enteili . but tic . . e v ,,M nit see what had. to. (hi with any COll - wliich a Peer might have tak niii the election. (3:1 these grounds, he fonad it to' he his duty to vote against the motion of the. Noble Lord. Mr. lkir - urra 11 , ..th observed, that the Right Hon. Gentleman (M... Rose) had nierel3 said, that it would be inconvenient for the Hosise to establish a precedeni by which it might have the power of investigating the proceeding of .any Committee,, and calling in question the conduct of the 11. , bees of that. Committee. In tine, ail the argu ments which had been adduced against the motion might be reduced simply to this, that it would bring the Members of the !Committee into an awkward situation. lie, however, beg;ed:leave to say, that the nv of the Conimittee had placed themselves •in an awkward situation, :by not produeitig - all the minutes which relat ed to the flagrant breach of privilege. A. .Royal . Duke first got possession of the writ, and in spite of all that had been said about the expedition with.which it had been forwarded, lie had obtained contioul over the writ. ; for he only caused it to be conveyed with expedition, be cause it suited his own purpose—because, if he not _found it convenient to send it expedi tiously, he ir6Old not have .sent it so quickly.— Having thus obtained controul over the writ, the Illustrious Dnke infOrmed the Electors, thei he wished them to vote for his friend : and to in duce one of them to co so, he writes to him that he had some communication with Lord Liverpool about 'someplace which that electfir wished.to se cure for a relation. Was not this interference in time election ? Why did the Duke . interfere with the Weymouth iection, when his situation hs a Peer made any 'interference a breach of privi lege ? A certain Learned Gentleman had said, that •as in a case of a nature somewhat where he hadb,Am accused, nothing of importance had been petiv,Ni ; therefore it was to be Supposed that nothing of importance could be proved against • the Duke of Cuinberland. This was , a mode of reasoning as strange as it was inconclusive. A worthy Alderman had gone so far us to sly, that he doubted the right of the House to inqure into the.pro'.,eedings of the Committee. Ile believed that this Hon. Member would be foundlo he as far wrong as his brother Alderman who had elainv. it as matter of Tight that, t:ie city Of 'London should beillowed to present Petitions by means of their Sherill't. The 'House had a right, and it was their duty to iuquire into the proceeding's of the Cornalitt..e, neither Ought it .to neglect., this (Lay, even although the Members of the Com mittee were in an awkward sitnationr A. a means of getting; rid of the motion, the order a the day had been moved ; but what was the crikr of the day ? It %VAS for the reading. of a bill, the very . /..,anible of which showed that the House should ;Icr allow it to proceed until the motion beforkithe. I loose was complied with. It seemed to him that the House stra:ned gnat after having swallowed a camel. ; If the Bill vas allowed to pass, :anti the motion of the Noble Lard rejected, it would give the boroagh, fast hound, into the hands of the Doke of-C'nlab , ..telantt- As lung aS be had the admi , nistration Of its ailairs. lle therefore iroped that the' House would sect de to the motion. T.gr. Rose explained. Lord Cesi eettaAG:t thought that the Honour able Gentlenum (Mr: Whit 'eveatl) had much better have urged` any other argum6t •in favour: of the Al - l otion than What hp had said about the preamble of the Mil. The: Hoeourable Gentleman had stated, that in the preamble of the Bill it was speeitied, that great abuses had existed ht the erection for Weymouth ;• and this w really, the case, %r such was the substance of the preaioble:: but the Hon. Gentieman had said• that the Bill reported to provide against these abuses, although the House had refused to inquire into their Oa titre, and thus that the WI; profeywd to provide against abuses, the •outtre of which the House .had . not ascertained. Vi'ae - this the case ? Th e • Committee had inquired into the abuses which :existed in Weymouth, ilnd the nature of these abuses had been specified in greeter confusion and , injustice, maltingthe House, after : delegating to the Cotumittee powers of tach extent, reserve to itself the power of ineestigating its proceed .ings, and of calling iu questiati the conduct of every One of. its Members. Supposing 'such a thing to be admitted the House might pee haps take- a 'very different view of the whole . mass of evidence—of the conduct bf certain ' wi!nesses--e-and of the_ credit due to the testi- niony of certain persons; By acceding to the motion, the House would introdue.e greater evils than those which were obviated by the Grenville Act. it would be highly unjust to drag persees %to be visited with Parliamentary vengeance ; who had, to the best ot their judgment, executed the - functions of their office as Members of a Colo 7 mittee. If thirteen Members bf the House were chosen to try the tneri,ts oh an election, the House could lint take' better security for the liberty of the subject and i the privileges•eif Parliament, than by resting on the judgment of those thirteen Mein - hers. Ile thought the Noble Lord perfectly Fiala when he said that the interference of Peers in elections ought not to be allowed, - and that it should be noticed \Nolen Inoiight before the noose, io a regui:tr' way. Without denying to the House the right of juristliaion 'on that subject, be tliOttgitt that it would in- the case then before them be best .exercised lay putting confidence in the decision of the . Connnittee.- • • • ,• Mr.littaelo; . M.r..AletntettomniE, and Mr. MAc- IiONALO, spoke each in favour of the motion. Lord I.)i-eat-vier., as. Mt:tuber of the. Committee, thoinelit it his (Fret, to Observe to the House, t h at which - been several times Men receive a7l interpretttion perfectly different from that which ii been glean to it by .several lion, Afernbers The Committee did COB- . eeive it to be . their ditty to enter into the eopsi. • aeration of. every thiineeconnected with the eke titni ; and if any thing very flagrant on the part of the Puke of Cumberland had appeared, they ivould have mentioned it in, their Report. Per sons who knew not every thing connected with the affair, pat that interpretation upon the. matter . w;e4 elet re: 1) the 1) ;(tic. When he s lid t!,is; SO iiit!A ":,ilde to the letter, tei to What had hcaii said' about 'the Writ., liarl the No')le Lerd been in the Committee, he would have known that the letter WaS.llot di:•.;,:t. fereflee on the part of the .De!ie of Ceinherland, , brit was an answer te a letter -froze one. of the Electors.-lii 'the letter the expre*sions were no thing. more :han wotibi have been naide use of by noy person Who wrote to an Eleetor, witcee vote he wkhed to secure. The tononittec ii.ed felt hOw'unjastly the Delte hall been atta"Cii. , d.' Sir l'notkaAs PLom ER spoke agents,: the ef..ta- Wkt on ent of a precaelent, which - should make the ,House take coglizance, by way of ape... 0., o! - the whole proceediugs of a Committee. He to;nte'-,t. that.. the Motion‘vould oblige the flou,_,^ to ti upon the inclepcnd . jurisdiction of eouitti.!:tees . , and establish the pecedeut of an appellant juris diction from a Iribunal whose decision should he deO mire. He read part.of the Act of the 10th :of the Kittg,-iti support of his ar7mn,etits. Mr. PoNsoNtr said, that the extracts which the Hon. Gentleman had read, to Prove that the House should not interfere, were exactly those Which he .world have read to prove that interfe , renee was necesSarV." Upon Matters which 're ; laud to circumstances colic:Teeing the merits of the election; the law compelled the Committee to decide; .but an special report was a matter of ilk- CiTtion and almost of -indiffeceace. The motion wars objeeted 'to as introduci. , g all the evils in tended to be obviated by the Those who made this objection did 'not retollect that there was reserved to the ' liouse op eel taut jurisdiction on every thing except Co4l. merits of the seat. The House in;ght . or might not agree to the special reeert.-- • , trey Member say, if in the evidence any thing had come out affecting the. Privilege§ of the • House, that the House was not to iequire into it,"" because, forsooth, it till not been noticed by the Committee ? it be said that the pOwee of the llOttse in that was fettered' by any in v ? The question here was one of .propriety. Hini. 'Gentleman did not. argefe ag4inst thc ineo.:upeteticy of the House; if nor, he iithnitted that that did not +exist' which would ` justifyinterfereece.--Snp- • , p os i n g (said the Hoo,`entlemin) the lowest Peer in the kingdoln had been-guilty of a brea6h of;pri rilege. would not the Houseintelfere ? The pre sent case' was One in which the per,on was not only a Peer but one of the Royal family. He. would put it to the House, whether, if the some things had bieti,peoved against any other Peer, would natters be in the same state in which they were at that time. ? Perhaps they .would. But he f heard with regret, the declaration of a Member of 'the Committee, that if anything extremely,flagrant bad occurred, it would have been noticed. Wha was to judge of the flagrancy ? Was it the Com- Mittee or the House ? He concluded by sa , „ing that the' motion had his entire concurrence. Lord A. Itolli,Tost Serifs, „that the Gentlemen opposite, on the present occasion, ,lid neither deny the ease, nor the law, bnt. objected merely, on the ground of some technical inf(qnrtlite. lie would, therefore, take the sense of . ..he House upon it. The lionse then divided, when there :inneared, r Against it l'or it. 57 111;jorit;, , . . -----4 S On being re-admitted to the Gallery, we round BATHURST upon his If.-gs prup(.ritig sonic amendments in the Weymouth 1 111 ABRRCROSISY o!)iicteti to (be m Aendments, becausehe considered them sttbveri , i'e of The petitioners spite:lotheraboseS,lront the Lenr:- ing of which they woold be preluded if the Amendments were adopted. Alter a f ew w o rds trim .11.. D. G:l'oly, Wynne, Sir John Newport, Mr. Preston; lind the Attorney-G-eneral, Si• John Newport otferA few ; observations, alter which the lacAtion wos put and carried, and the House resolved itself into a Committee can the Bill. PoNSON BY eSsed st Widt that the Report might be deferred, and that those (ientionen who had dames to otter would give them in as soon as that they might be printed without Kfter some conversation the House resinued, the report Wan received, and ordered to he taken into further consideration on Wednesday, and the Bill to he printed. The Sinecure Bill was. ordered, on the mot:on of Mr. BANKES, to be read a third Unit on Mon day. Mr. Alderman ATKINS presented a petition from Weymouth, 'complaining of theabuse of the Elec tion Pranchises, and pr lying redress. The peti tion Was ordered to lie ou the table, and to be, taken ',tap consideration with the Report of V.ke.. Bill on Wednesday. Tne Reports of the . CominitteesAtif:Snpi4y, and Aleans, wer7 bron?dit up and agreed to the exception of the. It esulution tespecting FiNch wines ; which was . ordered to be re-committed), and Bills ordered accordingly. Tlie Innkeepers' Bill was read a second time., and committed for this &Iv. SuTotnE,-2,bout ten o'clock, in-tile eveninq. of Thursday, the 18th ult. James Pot)tit, to Sir John.Thorold, Bart. of tyston Park, Flea t.trantheint, put a period to his existence, it l-; con jectured, by drowiling himself. lie Imi ki't the ir,tll the above evening, it v.-as retn2:r l ;ed, with out hishlt, and was' not iotmd till t:.e foil , ) wing Saturthiy. Having a rAlltily in 1. 1 .1 C it wissuppoSed ii as gone to (nein, bC1111. , , , in ill frequently tictin.; sp, and no stisjo Q:011 i3'.1.3 cntert:tined respecting hini till rile when it %%Ms ascertained lie had not been lank ing his customary visit. Search wns ( , t.mcoiatcly. com menced, and the various poi als iii tilt' park were dragged, till kitgth, on Saturday ( ii 3co ,,,, re d i n one ,d (... , tr , :nne depth. lie , had at thoe:s shown symptom's pc .4 (fist)) (I ,. retl mind, I.:nd rh 1 1 .1 1 1 1 1 et :1 1 : e , 1 ( ti t t t 1 11 1:1 : e : r en t: ( 4 : (1 1 )( 1 1 1 11) :1 t t 1 14 ' i3y bit t' it - as the 'result of.de. , .potulenev. He lids left, ii wife no:i two children to latitetit death, the tot ner of whom wa3 s'o mitch, atrated T. the calamitous event, that her life 'mai for iorae despaired of'. . . was in the, el ~,,r1 lid that of a eje "''erg set ill 1 ri4e rttcrt three ot ::d to tisterf ercr i , if i ;.j ,pared, that 1.1 s l t 'hi s Iti 111 ii, )7:1 di, tiA ' o?er, raiglit if 4 .4,l°llse then cc it i Ili' ' s t hey Inuit f ,4f this transit( o gli 4 th ey wo u ld 'fu ~,,,o, ti. 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