The Sun. — London, England, 1802-05-14 00:00:00

'tad the command of the Portuguese Army was, he ilad no doubt, disqualified by his great age, from ~ those t - aertioris which such a service required ; but in point of faEl, it was the opinion of. the most. experienced Officers of the British Army, that he was not capable of making. those dispositions and exertions which the - defence of that Country e re-, quired. If the advice of the British Government had been complied With, other Measures . were in: agitation which might have been effeanal in eheck ing the-progress of the French and. SpapiSh Army. This advice was not, however, adopted by the Por tuguese Government ; they ktated, that, if Great Britain, would furnish an --Army of ee,ooo men,. she might: appoint a -General ; but, otherwise the command could not be taken from- the person who.• then commanded the Portuguese Army, ,and, ,cir cumstancedasewe then were, we could not spare so. large a body of ferces.L---Afterwards, when the • French and Spanish Armies had advanced:into Por tugal, we released - her from all lermbligations to this Country, and every advanced her a Subsidy to enable her to treat on-better terms. • After this we were not hound in honour to go further.: we were not bound to get back her possessions for her, yet. this'Country had done-it, . and -we had done that for her in this Treaty, which he believed was never done by any other Country for an Ally under such circumstances.' His Lordship then proceeded to, state the advantages •gained by Portugal by our stipulations in . her favour, respeCting. her boundaries in America, over those which she stipulated for herself--ssadvantages of which, he said, the Portuguese Government were perfectly. sensible. But, • at all events, there .was no departure in the -Definitive Treaty, as far-as related to this subjeet, from the basis established in the Preliminaries.— The .next point which- his Right Hon. Friend had referred to, was Newfoundland ; and upon this sub jeet h. had only to obseree, that every thing was left as it was before the War. With regard to the Cape of Good Hope,. the only difference between' the Preliminary . and Definitive Treaty, was one, which, in the opinion of those who were best in. formed upon . the subject; was advantageous to this Country.- As to Malta, the only qUestion to be considered was„ whether the arrangement which - had been-made, was, 'under all the circumstances of the case, as good as. could. be expeEted. When we ••took possession of thatlsland, we declared our in tention to restore it to the Order, and to procure for the inhabitants some advantages. which therroon. duia so fully entitled them to. It was at one time • intended to have placed- that . Island under' the proteetion,of Russia.; but the ill. judged measures adopted by the Government of that Country, rendered such a measure -impossible. , After what had been said in . the Preliminaries, there.could be no doubt, —limn it. was intended to restore the Sovereignty of. the Island to the Order; but the manner was objened to, and in particular, it had been said, ,that •the Order of -Nobility had been disgraced by the introduetion,of a 'Maltese:Lang:se: but surely, such an advantage was due to the mi dis& of the Inhabitants of that. Island; who, previ ous to the landing -of the: British Troops, had, .tin der the direCtion.el a British Officer, carried on a spirited_ and saiccessini warfare against the French. And, as it was the opinion of Officers well qualified to judge upon the subject, that the Inhabitants of that Island were - themselves sufficient for its de fence, the propriety of tbe.measure which.had been adopted, could not, under all the circumstances, he 'thought, be doubted. With regard to the Poster under whose proteaion ,Malta was placed, it had been offered to the Emperor of-Russia, but from a change of the Poitics of that Cabinet, it was re - fused ; His Imperial Majesty offered to guarantee the independence. of the Island, provided it was placed under the prote6tion of Naples. He was. sorry, that from the situation in which the King of Naples stood, he was not so powerful a ProteCtor as could be wished ; but the whole of that Monarch's' condutt during the War was such, as to entitle him to - the fullest confidence.—He had besides the strongest motives . of interest to induce him - to protea the in_ dependence of Malta, fromo its contiguity to that , which must now be considered as the- mo s t valua ble part of his dominions, the Island of Sicily. Bfit notwithstanding all this, the independence of Malta 'might still be considered as insecure, if it was not also goaranteed by Austria, a -Power which, next to Naples, was.the most interested in . its indenend. ence.—Having disposed of these points ; his Lord ship then proceeded to take a general view of the question with regard to what had been said of the Naval Force of this Country, he wished to join issue with the Hon. Gentleanan on the other side. - He- was ready to contend that no Peace we had, ester made had (all things considered); left this. Country in so good a naval condition, compared with France, as the one we had just concluded. If- the situation of Europe had been different, undoubredly a dif ferent YeaCe might have been concluded ; but if the Continent bf Europe was in anunfortunate situation, we had at least the satisfaction of knowing that no blame was attributable to us, no exertion on, our fide was wanting• lot the question now was, whether by the Peace we wete roe placed in such 2 situation, that ive should -be fully/ equal to meet France if the contest. wete renewed ; and whether it was. not wise for us ,to make Peace with our strength, reseurces,. and spirit 'Linea hausted, rather than cbntinue the contest to the last extremity, without any proiyeet of itilvantage to compensate for the loss we. must 'sustain ? There was one subject which Gentlemen seemed studiously to have laid cut of their consistent:ion, when they spoke of the great advantages that France would derive from the acquisition of Louisiana, -and that seas, the immense benefit that would ;Scottie to this Country Isom our hating obtained the possession of tete Mysore, and by the destrgtion of a Power in India. :who was the natural Ally of France,: , and the inveterate Enemy of Great Britain...— . If we - had obtained great acqui s ition s , i n the, East, our power in ,the West _lndies had also g tea tly increased, our ancient Colonies had been rendered one-third. more valuable than they had been before the War, and we had besides acquired the extensive and fertile Island of Trinidad, which possessed one of die best naval stations in the West Indies. 'Compare this with the 'situation of the 'French in flit quarter ; look at the situation of St. Donsingo, that Colony from which France had for derived such irnwense advantages. Sop- posing the- present - contest should terminate in the Most t'avourable manner for France, a long time must elapse , ,before that Island could be again rendered profitable to thj" Mother Country.— The . Navy of F. ante bad, during the present War, been redUcial above one half, and she had .scarcely a Merchant Ship upon the ocean.— : France had a commerce to create as the foundation of her' future Navy, while on the other.hand, the sources of the English Naval power remained un impaired. The "sources of the Naval power of England were her Coasting trade,'the East Country trade, our Fisheries, , the West Indian trade, the North American trade, the East Indian trade, and the Mediterranean and 'Levant trade ; -compared with flak France had but little. Coasting trade, and her West Indian and Mediterranean trade was much inferior, to ours ; to the other, I,laces she had no • trade at all, or at least none that deserved notice. It was true, be .said, that France had acquired a great extent of power and territory but she, was without resources to feed and support them ; while Great Britain, with, a solid capital, even stood in need of more territory to employ it on. The very extent of her dominions rendered France weak. It had been asked what security we had that this Peace would be lasting ? He. s with sorrow confessed, that •io• the present state of the world, any Peace was tremely insecure. But this insecurity was no reason for our not concluding a Treaty, wilco we could do so on honourable terms. The Noble Lord then sheaved, by instances 'deduced from , a variety of preceding Treaties, that it was proper to follow up this principle. It was proper to. make security a consideration, but it was necessary_to prove that by continuing the War e we could have obtained better security. With regard to the Government with which we had to treat, France was now gradually laying aside her Revolutionary Principles, and returning to the old maxims of Polities and Re ligion. It was impossible, after the preceding con vulsions, that she could as yet have a good,Govern ment, but the current was running that way.. A renewal of the War would, in some measure, un avoidably replunge her into Rekolutionary mea sures : but this respeded only her internal - Govern_ ment. With regard to foreign policy; :we had as much to dread from her under die Bourbons as un der the present . Government. Had she remain ed in her former stare, the world might have experienced fewer convulsions ; butunder all Govern ments her ambitious views would be the same. •We had now emerged from a dangerous wars with our resources, our credit unimpaired. It was'iMproper to waste them. • It was still more improper to waste the spirit of the Country'. That there was a danger of doing so was evident. He was a friend' to the . Preliminaries, and rejoiced at their being signed ; but there had appeared.a spirit of exultation in this Country on that event, which he Should have been -sorry to.see on the Conclusion of any Peace. This exultation might in some degree he attributed to the - relief which the people expeded from taxation ; but this : could influence them only, in a small -degree ; the great cause,was, that the people were - worn but. by the _War, and their spirits required to be che rished by Peace. After having dais strewn that our empire had been preserved entire, its interests at tended to, our 'Allies not neglected, an:l not one degrading or dishoecurable article admitted into he present Definitive Treaty, the Noble Lord 'thought himself justified when he concluded with the follow ing i\lotHn t—" - That an humble _Address be pie. semen to His .Majesty, to return His Majesty the Thanks of the Honse fut having been graciously pleased- to communicate to them the Definitive Treaty of Peace, to represent to His Majesty, that/we have already declared our full approba tion of the Preliminary Articles of Peace, which, by His Majesty's Command, were laid Before this House; and we are satisfied that His Majesty has, on the whole, wisely consulted the interests of his People in having concludesi a Definitive Treaty, founded on the basis ,of • these Prelimi.. naries. That although we deeply lament the ca lamitous events which have taken place en time Con_ Linens of Europe in the course of the War, we cannot refled but with the utmost satisfadion, that the wild and destrudive , designs in the which this Country was threatened at its commencement have been effedually frustrated. That His Majesty's dominions have not only been preserved entire; but valuable and important acquisitions have been a n , nexed to them ; that our Commercial and Maritime Superiority have been maintained and improved,' and that we continue in tWe confirmed possession of those means of exertion which the experience of the late contest has proved more than ever, to be equal, even irrnidst the new and unexampled difficulties of other nations of Europe, .to maintain the indeoen deuce and assert the honour 'of this Country ; that impreSsed with these. sentiments, we are on our parts earnestly solicitous to cultivate and improve the-blessings of Peace, and to concu,r in such measures as His Majesty in his wisdom shall judge to be best calculated to p r event occ as i o n s o f m i sun d er . • standing with Foreign Powers ;--,-that we rely on. His Majesty's known disposition to adhere with the most scrupulous fidelity to his engage_ tents ; but that we entertain at the same time a per_ felt confidence, that His Majesty will not fail tom , ploy that vigilance and attention which time present situation of 'Europe demands; and above all, that His Majesty will uniformly determine and prepare to .defend against every encroachment, the great sources of the wealth, commerce, and naval power of the , Empire. That we are fully persuaded; HiS Majes ty's faithful Subjels will at all times be ready to support the honour of His Majesty's Crown, and the Rights, Laws; and Liberties of their Country, with the same zeal, energy, and fortitude which they have invariably manifested during the war, now hap pily brought to a conclusion." Mr. T. GRENVILLE said, th i at in the observa: tions he had to make, he .should confine himself steidly to the answer of the arguments which the Noble Lord had advanced in favour of the Treaty of Peace. Before he proceeded to comment upon what bad fallen from the Noble Lord, he wished to say a fe . ‘y words upon what' his Right Hon. friend 11;141 said of the necessity of supporting the spirit 4-f the , people of this Country. This observation be conceiv ed applied to what Jrad fallen from the Noble Lord, towards the conclusion ofshis speech. ; The Noble • Lord said, that the people _were tired out War, that they cried out for Peace, and that the ;4!)), they expressed upon the Peace~ was greatir than I he wished to have seen—This was the point at-issue` between his Majesty's Ministers and those Gentle. men who concurred with him in opinion upon the sub jet% He contended, that the spirit of the People of this Country was what he hoped it always would be ;_ that the people were ready to stand forward in defence of their honour and security, and that at the last -period of the War, the spirit of the Country was as great as it had been at any period during the contest. ' He then proceeded to comment upon different parts of the Noble Lord's speech : he contended that this Country would have derived great advan tages from the renewal of the Treaties. With le gard to that part of the Question which related to India, he said he was astonished to hear a, Right Hon. Gentleman last night speak so-slightly of the Treaty of I 783 and the Convention of 1787, because in the Projet oldie Treaty of Lisle, he seemed to wish to confirm those Treaties which he now repre. sented as worse than useless. Mr. DUNDAS said, he took this opportua nity of noticing what had been - said by the Right Honourable Gentleman who had just sit down, with reference to what he,. Mr. DUNDAS, had said last night, and who had pursued what lie said a good while, and made some observations . upon it ; but he had misconceived, for he had misrepresented what he said. He had charged him with saying that if the Treaty referred to in the Motion was considered, it would not be equal to ooe field-piece. He said no such thing. He did not allude to a Treaty when he made use of the observation alluded to,-----He said that if the Papers moved for by the Learned Gentleman, not alluding to any Treaty, were laid upon the Table, every one of them,tltey -would have no effed whatever to remove the doubts•of Frenchmen on 'the. subjed to which they related ; and it was in reference to these papers he had said that one, field-piece would settle the business of them in a moment a —The Right • Hon. Gentleman had alledged that he (Mr. DUN DAs) had applied his observations to the Conven tion of 1787, as Containing evil praviSiOns which we ought not to renew. He had done no such thing---;- . His argument was this, and he begged leave now to repeat it, that the merit of the Convention of 17 87 depended solely Upon this, that it applied an antidote to the poison of the Treaty of 1783 ;- the meaning of which was, that the Conventiooof 1787 , had the merit of counterading the Treaty of 1783 ; but he had not said that either the one or the other of • them was the foundation of the prosperity of India. He thought it ne...essary to explain this, which seemed to have been misconstrued by the Rt. Hon. Gentle man ; but this was not the main purpose for which he rose to-night,to ask the attention of the House. He rose.to make an observation or two which were very material. The Hon. Gentleman had put it to him, how he 'reconciled is condkt in assenting to the Negotiation at Lisle, by which the . provisions of the Convention of 1787 were stipulated to be as. sente,d to on our part ? His answer to this . was a very short and a very plain one, and he hoped it would be a very satisfactory one. It was this that since the year 1797, the condition of this Country in India was changed most materially, and that which might have been offered in 1797, and ‘, as offend in 1797, might have been, and would have been improper on our part in 18oa, because our situation in India had been most materially changed in that time. In 1797 we had not, what we, now possessed, namely, the undoubted Sove reignty of India, and therefore, whatever opinion he had in 1797, he was perfectly warranted in changing chat opinion in the present instance ; for in the one case, we were warranted in demanding more than in the other, -and, he was only desirous of our availing ourselves of the advantage which we now possessed. In 1797 we had no such advantao there Was, therefore, no real difference in his con duct ; in both instances he had been desirous that this COuntry should have the best possible terms of security for its tranquillity in India: Did the Right Hon. Gentleman mean to make it matter of reproach to him a that 'he had changed his opinion as to our si tuation in India upon a change of circumstances there ? he Mean' to say, that although he could discover a material change of circumstances in our situation, yet there was to be no change in his opt nion as to the conduct which we were to pursue ? D:d he mean to urge it as a fault in him that he had, :von an attentive perusal of doeurnents, from 1763. down to the present period, become of opinion that our Sovereignty in India is now entire, and as he was of the opinion, that we were better off in this resped by not renewing any Treaty than if we had retie*_ ed any of them, that he should endeavour to ins_ press that opinion on the House ? He belieVed that the Noble Person who had been alluded to (Lord GKENviLLE), stated an opinion much as he had dot*, on the ground of our Sovereignty in India, , and that he had changed the opinion he had first entertained On this subjea.—This he learnt from the common vehicles by ' which the opinions Of public men wire conveyed to the- Public. But he would leave this part of the questior, and take the liberty of saying a few words with regard to the question now before the House: When he heard of the sig nature of the Preliminaries of Peace, he was at a distant part of this Island ; he had no hesitation in saying, that when he heard of the manner, in which the Cape of Good Hope was to be diSposed of, lie beard it with regret and sorrow. He . had always considered that place as a great acquisition to this Country. He was of that opinion in theory before we had it ; he was confirmed in that opinion by experience of the use of it since it was in our pos. session. He looked upon it as a good'depbt, and a place for the reception, of our troops, when we had occasion to send them to India : by their being landed and refreshed there, they went to India full of health and vigott, and were in every relied fit for , immediate service. It helped us in the - course of Our immense fleets in their way to India. These were advantages we had experienced. He looked Upon the Cape and Ceylon as our two great bul warks in his Mind, and at no period of his life had he been of .another opinion on this' subjed. No connedion, however close—no friendship, however cordial--no attachment-3 however sincere, should ,induce bins not to give hii opinion upon this subjed. That opinion was, that the Cape of Good Hope ;;Mould not have been given up by this Country, and lie was ready to confess, however unwelcome that might be that HOuie or unpopular in the Country, had he been in Administration, nothing shonic , v him to .bea party in agreeing to a Peace. upon terms by which this - Country was to abanOn till Cape ofGood Hope.' He felt this . sentiment di rt the more strongly on account of the conneai" was now established between France and Batavi' bic He considered the Cape of Good Hope as i nv* - a be . almost to, us, as a - place of safe reception t 0 us, tween Asia and Europe; but although this was '„s .opinion, yet he did not hold it to be any pa rt of it. duty to join those who took so much P o a ba in s .:, ,o u . render the Peace . an . objet of disapyr pod with the people of this Country ; saw 41 Zber that was likely to arise out of that conduit, nc', at did he think it was, proper to cavil too much at that part of the .exerCise of the Prerogative of tile Crown, although it was done of course under tilt advice of Ministers. 'With regard to Malta' ace considered, it also as a place of great value 011 count of the communication it had between the r diterranean and the Levant—it was one. of finest ports. in the world.—lt was in a covnerci,lo view . most important for us to retain, b ut i t t not to -Commercial view that he felt the full i ; portance of this place.—He felt its value O r _ more on account of the effeEt it would have on , st : if , rounding Nations to see the Flag of Great 13rIt ' ) ro hoisted as an assurance to all who last it, of thethe teCtion of the British arms, should slte chance to•s ta be in need of it ; and when he came to add to th is t ro , desire of the Maltese to co n tinue under Jrd Piii9 teCtion, he way the more induced to exr ess r eta . , regret that' this place had not been ed.—He had therefore no difficulty it' 11C that under all the circumstances, he of have assented to the giving up of could these places had he been in Administratio". now for theimmediate Question before the 14 :', us his He could not agree to the Address mov ed `l ce d Right Honourable Friend, because it " ni ` l ' e „ i : an with an - inveetive against the Peace, Il e ' 3 o;it good likely to arise to this Country frnf n ,,b e rt, course of proceeding. In the year 17 83 .; a Peace w a s m ad e , a f ter i t was admitted Mier necessary on 'all hands, yet that Peace ; e „sher wards mad e use o f b y P art i es i n t h at and th r ' t he House of P a rliament, as an organ to desti'i4l., the Administration w h o made - it. He did g ot j i t i t hat purpose fot . . which th e P art ies t hen decry Peace; as ltitle did he like the course whl the taken now against t hi s P ea C e. Il e bad st 3te c ur; points in thc: present case in which he did not O n , rt y but he desired to be ur.derstotx.i as not being a P i `,4 s to any such- Confederacy. H e agreed on t he " be en with bee° With the Amendment. And had it n i t t oe moved, probably he should have moved %,,J. Amendment himself. The firSt Address, if ' l g o r to, he apprehended might do mischief. If f ap proved of the Amendment, because the genet . '" ot a deney of it was only to approve of carrying o dea efieet the Definitive Treaty, because it was 10u 1 01 on the basis of the Preliminary Treaty, and had already bee n app rove d o f by the two 14 0115 " Parliament. Mr. T. GR ENVILLE explained. flt 4 General GASCOYNE move d an Adjourtn ne " the Debate. . This produced a conversatio n between the CII :1 4146:' CELLOR of the ExcHrov ex and 1\1r• Fi f ijel7 3tc expressed themselves satisfied with (lif the already, and th e i r p er f e tt rea di ness to te'l l ° ,l most able Speech of t he N o bl e L or d who Thed 4 fended the Treaty ; but, hoses er, theY to be under s to o d, that if there were anY c-- r able number of Members who wished to d ew b - jett t° opinions upon the q u e st i on , t h e y Could no t ° G e tio ei ' an Adjournment. )3oth these Right DO' csem men concurred in thi s .s e u t im ent , t hat it `" s ip, tial there should be no unnecessary del a ): decision of this important sub jeft, and both felt itself satisfied, on what it had heard ' n o ,, Ole sides, it would come to a decision now ; but • s beLi t v contrary, if a numb e r o f G ent l emen really ' 4 l l i,cc speak upon it, an Adjournment ought to tAl""ilelt in for it was.hi g hly important that it should be ! ~r the the House, a n d un d erstoo d ever y where' :sced' subjeft was thoroughly and completely e nv i ",;/ ve o f Mr. GREY and Mr. Su ERI OAN both wis 3 G ent ic• much to have an Adjournment ; the farn rr bot h man saying, that ht should vote againstr Gen- Address and the Amendment, and the l atte "pus c ' tlemar saying, he 'had an Arnendmertt Pr rnat tel. which wo u ld introduce a great deal of clew into the. Debate. tic!' The question was then pit on the q -c 5 Adjournment, when the Howse divided• For the Adjournment - IS7 • Against it _ _ 135 „ cu d' At a quarter before Three the House atlJ°- .i PRICE OF STOCKS, THIS DAY AT TWELVE o'cLocK• 3 prerO• Consols. - - a 7.411 Onmium :1•4 soLrm Quis nselax pnA.suM A'- LOND 0 N, MAY 14, IS° 2 ' ---- _ „ , aft ic 'ef• Yesterday the Qt.; r. EN held a praw;ng-roorn at ' t. ~ t , ' q Yesterday the Lord' Nlavor and She ribs went , ul. 3 l' James's, to present the Address to Ho NA.l l ' 5 " : " ° t. restoration ,of Peace. tto ll ' l's We last night received p • j o urna ls f the • Paris 0 which contain no news. f 4l ' This morning a I)utcliMail arrive.d• bro ught t ° This morning arrived a "'fail from Lishor, brolly' e t' mouth by the King George Piicket; in ten tiays•, s has b r it 'The Establishment of the Royal Corpi of :‘ 1 ." 1- v al s e lorg: 3 l7' fixed by the Admiralty Board.—For a few peacewee— 11111 will be about is,ooo men ancLtl-e permanent . is Co lishment will be ia - ' Ti 't'- • d Col° l ' e t - ~90. .ie .41.4.011 i 5 rl° mandant are Semded. arty, alp the . t kg) The permanent PeaCe-Estat'alishmenf of yet finally arranged. That which was gi e :',.:i 3 ;tl. was only the E_stah,lishruenr alter the first ictii: .- -------..-- T 4 COUNTY OF SOMERSET,/' TI,FNIF',;I4 A T the REQUEST of sever4l f : '' r lLl4 '" 4 G -0 0 ' 11- of THIS COUNTY I appoint at to , 1 e , A MEETING of the COUNTY, to be held ;, v ins, intG HALL in WELLS, on Monday the :-Irn ul . ' - ': - ,ft:inlpY l One o'Clock in the Afternoon, for the puti?`;l?Zi on tl i ' consideration an ADD RE SS to H:s MAJ L 5 - I.° 1. She restoration of PEACE. ;%''.' BENJAMIN GREEI4I:IIL ' Stow. Easton, May it, a ' - ---"---- - fee t ' ____ _ °2 "-:----- ------ - f oow' s loa ° ________ London: Printed by. B. hi`I‘,IILLN (° ,,,N1 Al, I°' Covent-Gat:len); and Publi::hed by 1 . 3 ' . " 4.1 ,-), at ' l' ' Scnzrrs (of Mine-terry-road, Wcsrmiaiste Strand. THE SUN.