The Sun. — London, England, 1802-12-03 00:00:00

-P ir r v e 1) 14 '• otl s tllc A • A9 Ct verbtent of Vrahce--itippost the death of the rst consul by .means bfartrof those Brutuses who aPpeared in that,.-Country, (this tips an event which he- not only did not wish, but which' he Would-prevent if it were in his'power, not -from ,anp.periOnal regard to the person in question, hU . t . f rom. his det estat i on o f such Tra4iees), .any, event of that kind were to happen, and it might Le -thought advisable to invade -this Coo/pry, the Ports of Holland would :4Eu - tithe means of sending ° L l'er 'an -Army to this Country in one night's time ;- spoke this from personal.knowledge,, because he ' ta d - soiled from England to Holland in one night, And •he suppos e d .the. passage mig h t he ,effected fr om Holland to' England in the same period. It wa s for these, reasons that he wished our Aavy to be increased..... A 'was needless to trouble the HOUse.a.py limger,rheo.voold therefore only, add, M at we might augment our Navy, but if Officers w ere rewa r d e d f or any ot h er.cause b ut t h at of hay.. 'ng served (heir King and Country faithfully, if there was any other road • to honour, it would ills. l t "rage th ose w h o earne d t h e i r l ionours ,b y h ar d . and. °ng service. He could not help before he sat down t i l llu g the attention of. the House to a publi cat i oo was almost in the hands of every Officer, the List, '.the cover, of which it was adver tlzed, th at t h ere .were certa i n p l aces to . b e sold a f -" hu nt His; Maje4.ty, _but to • prevent application s a ° l ll mere ea . riosiry,.,iimens),v_ee,would be given to Y applicati on wos.,not accompanied with a o n ne Pciuna note., Now it rust be obvious to every 'ir i s() ; , n d w l 4 o. had common sense, that the tobjed of fr op ---ve ntsement was.. to get a one pound note' evr-rYi)o6lyovho was caus e fool enough to give it, be.. sent everY body who knew any thing of the pre, Bibl e , i i — V•ersnrast-know that the thing was impos t-11.' Ou t the circulation of such an advertisement th z.,ht du mischief among ill informed persons, and the'eAt, et " e he should hand. over the publication' to - tto rne _-, f ,y General, and hoped that he would I) :" 44 .tbe.perstms guilty of ibis offeoce, if, the Law 4 now of it.—l-le concluded with expressing 1 . 4 wish th at t h e N avy wou ld _b e k ept in a state o f e4ll t l es, Which he considered as .the best Means of ?It ' e rviokl?eace. it ir• TZ/kG ES $ said, he had heard of the'dis.._ ~L a ree of many men 'itr,mn the' Dock-yards, but he liot :,ufficientlY acq ua i nte d w i t h the'sUhkEi to dese ide . upon the prop r i ety o f t h e m e asure. " He n7 r e,4' . wished to _deli ver hiS ' sent i ments up o n t h e % nlo tr of S eamen t h at i t was now proposed to em , 111 °3% If an Hon. Gentleman who spoke a few his-ago ob a. t wa s no.w , in his place, die would probably t to the narnaer proposed, as being much too t ; for his own part , h e , s h ou ld og l er to t h e Re ion bef ore t h e H ouse ; b ecause he cooceived the " I tlister s ' M ust b e the best judges upon the su bj e ct . e -agre e d with the Right Hon. Gentleman who t rke .on the opposite bench (Mr. GRENYIit,E) t Ole House was, never, before placed in such a s i l In t a tion t ote ; they w ere neve r b e f ore c a ll e d upon . to tv s.ll a hikailler of Seamen in' time of Peace, list Lthout eXplanatiOn or notice; and he confessed he v'itn astonishment to that part of the of t he tx C EQti Ea's:speech, in which he r;,, te d ' Tha "A t' th e ' p er so n s who oppdsed the Resolu larg State ' t h e ,necessity , of proposing -etflit • number of men; 'hut that it was to • .' •"' l l, t i er ut - 'OO-thpe who pr0p:n.9,4,, the M . Otit.St call e d explauations upon the subject,, ,ap e .;. A u C oo . -The' present 'Parliament had been Th""" w ith a' most gracious Speech from the ,h t one, whi c h, f ir an y th i ng i t conta in e d, m i g h t ;p ave been made in a tithe of - .the most profound Fie did hot hesitate to confess, that he :n•si(terc'l the'Countiy a; being in a state of great clolat which o ng "' 'and could by no Means assent to that para_ 'hail been advanced in a Fortner. ilg:ba te , 4 t this COUntry v as to look for it's 'security in th e 1. . .i' n eittne ss France.-- T lf, - .France had .merel y_ o bi t 'd her territory, She Might not be so much an was a Ls' : t .9f.ap_p,re4en4on; ,but vktheii . lie saw that' she i,: n. Pnsst-"s:in of the' left' bank Of the Rhine, and t v es trqed all the fortresses on the. right hank . — / 10 ,7 41 411 e. ilireded- the affairs of Holland, and was. her OrtS—•When: she 'commanded. • set .pf Piedinoht .40d the I "" antaills Thf 40`41t.z..tilai;d:',.. is- could not 'l3 . e"'de...ni - e . d that she i n es 'elsea ,t'lte a tneark,c;frvii - ifk i her. a !tick's once te tb . the he art of eir'erirtei4boaaring tout he I)lixt consideration was, "how site ‘vculd use , , Alf W .errf----Ale 'would not _ rn ,,, s enter: into ia ,, gcussitio the coodua she had 4 9 i-)her Siates ec , c,ould not agiee Hon. Gentleman . who '\ l l„ ) ?.tte ar ,last, that FrauCe'w,4Viniwiliing to elite? into , be.cattse,he wis'Unarite .: to conceive the absolute ~,141.,tzer4nd,; I , e ,. e s,?ty that was , irqosed upon her Of atta . c. , k - 111, bit lie wise;l:is look :it the di_sposititnis eli C 1111Itati bee . ti'Manifesteeby . .France towards this f e C ,P 't h rY• He begged the Huse 'to look at the Mani tail°. es which had been . publislitd in a French Paper, faifo r s ttseif by authority; tie„onlY 014cial- Paper Ale c an Qe• What was inserted in that, Paper Must A4o 3 ,ered ;‘l_ the procludioliS of, or, at least, as w l ri .'ed by the Goveforrient i di 7 rance, as much _ th or ,• )a , appeared in the London' Gazette, wars au diet -se u by the Government of tbis Country.' He.; t ri li Tt mean to that the Government of Great te r ', 4 ' n Ought to have i n te r fe re d, and tti have called us e : L re ttattiop; indeed-it wo u ld h ave been - of no Iv at u „ . e cause the secret was ou t , a n d t h e i r en mi t y. the icn own;, He was . undoubtedly anxious for continuance of 'Peace, which, he believed, ato s i th e w i s t p of air parties, 'though they differed tph`t! l - ttle means of securing- it, The' Treaty from exeltwe wcrett - TTOOkfor - PerCe7lfia no[ fel - been t o ,,; u ted, which, to meh of common understanding, itit '"d only arise from the probability of another rUp v.e.k-o.t else as caloulated to lead to one. He ;1., 4 3's 1 • 41. ts.tened with attention to the CHANCELLOR eXp r e E Kgi.EQuEß,.and he trusted, that the hopes sa t ,: s .seo by of the continuance of Peace, were th„r.'ne; but he could nut help tecolleding, _ li on. l ,!,was not many months ago, since that Right. pre sei vz 'Aitletnan had given it as his opinion, that the th at i ,', t ,Peace was likely to lot as long as any Peace si n '''ulieen concluded in the - last century. •It was thel.?=;`'.ll,af., that in: a period of such general alarm, o nly 'kight Honourable Gentleman should be the Wa s i1 u _9 . 71 , 4 - He thought , it tior either 'for the advantage of the Parliament b e of the C ountry, ;that their dangers should I.ei nQ . 1 • t hese: d ltell diem, because a knowledge: of min - ht - the more easily enable them' to avert them ; for ha Was stiime :emu they-could only he averted by our being preOred for War and even for Invasion,- by taking etfedual means for securing our possessions abroad and- at -home; , and above all, by the •CharaEter of His Majesty's Councils, being-such- as was calculated. to, .procure respell; abroad, and to inspire:confidence at home. Captain _MAR k'HAM in answer tit what bad fallen from .the Hou. Gentleman wlo spoke last but one, said it was—very true that.maay_men had been discharged fro tpe 7 pock-vards, but they were, such as were either incapacitated by age, or who were deficient as workmen, or. who had negleeted 'their business, or who if they had not been dis- missed, might haxe been _punished by a course of Law. It had been asserted, that men had been dis- missed without being provided foi., bit this he , cle_ flied, they not only had a greater provision made than on former occasions, but it was extended to a greater nbmber Of Persons. He wished to say a word with regard to a description of men Who were called Ctvulkets ; they. had entered into a . . conspiracy of the worst kind, in concert with the Caulkers employed in the Merchant Service. Go vernment was applied to to defeat the object of this conspiracy, which was to make their wages in time of Peace, equal io what it was in time of War. If this had been carried into effea, it would have been felt throughout the whole Commercial System. In order to counterad this Conspiracy, the Board of Admiralty did inquire of every individual, whether he was willing to enter into (he Merchant Service, and upon his refusal he was discharged. As 'to there not being a sufficient supply of Artificers, he con tended, that at no time had such pains been taken, nor was there such a supply as at the present 'tno. 7 ment ; the number of Apprentices was increased, and men who f a ithfully performed their duty, were - rewarded, The Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the * insufficiency of the allowance given to. the Out-Pen sioners of Greenwich Hospital, and had said, - that many wounded men •were distressed, ,and could ob. rain no relief. But he begged ro obsertre, that Greenwich Hospital. was never intended.Nas a re ceptacle for wounded Sailors, unless, they were in a situation that they could not earn their bread ; there ,Was another Institution for that purpose; and that was what Was called the Chest at Chatimm... It was true, that sometimes Officers, did. not give the Men what was called Smart Tickets, and .without such a Certificate the men could "not obtain relief. He could not follow the Hon.'-Gentleman through • what he had said about France, 'anti about . Theatres : and changes of scenery, because he knew nothing about .the matter. As to, what, be bad said about Stele's List, he saw the Hon. Gentleman had given it to the Attorney-General, who. he supposed would do what was right upon the subjea. • Sir S/DiVitY SMITL/sait4 he had made no at tack upon the Board of Admiralty, he had merely said, that when they had not granted relief, it was because they had not- the means of doing it. Lord PROBY said he had seen many instances of what appeared to him gross injustice in the dismis sions which had taken plate from the Dock-yards. He knew an instance of a Man who had been dismissed from one of His Majesty's Yards, who had served torwards of thirty years with great credit. He had been turned out lately without the slightest warning, anti without- any cause being as:iigned. - When he applied to know the reason of his dismissal, the answer was, that. the AdMiralty held the power Of dismissing him, and that they did not want his ser vices. The person he alluded to was from the Dock Yard at Plymouth. If upon ant; emergency they wanted pier, to work n ight and day - to fit out a Fleet. withdispatch, - the greatest inducement would he, thecertainty of their country not afterwards foreSaking them. iher::- .f or e, contended that such conde.:i was unjust and u nwise. . Captain iIIARKI . I/1/11: - begged leave t o. sa y ' _ a few. words. in reply. The Noble Lord ,had : s'aid that mtn..i . ve.re turned.-out witiniat. any cause ; thei Board .of •Aeliniralty was inlzt accustomed td gy.s.ei their reaSnos,• -but if the. Noble Lord hademade pro-1 • per inquiries, he would : II:lye found, that there :.vcre ~rt asons of the greatest magnitude. for. the dismi'jsAls that:rook place, arid more especially,.ith reg:lii: A. to: ...klieiperson alluded. to by the ,N0b1e,,1,0.41•- A corn- 1 , mit tee . from tilt Navy -13, E i r d wills , ~ , ell t d w , , ;„. ,) 4 , ~r m inine into-abuses which existed ;,,msl•,. l l . ex.to,U'nt ,thaletlture w,as . ti defalcation : in the .q9au9R,askil l itia . .'.lily .of • t:he. : Timher ; tht it .. wiio.tyropet,ly il ,TF cci.vg‘i• into:thg yard,; that it was . .10.t f . 5114.05 i 06ti) the prpper . initials ; in short, ..th.t i Ans:l:er. son had , neglecled .. lmost e_ very thing..co.pinlttecf charge,to 'hi charge, and. it was in consequence of.this , inq +siry. bekng made,. and of these .fats, being, as certaitied, ,that ,thiS ,person was turnal , out of ill , .oflice. If Ae i Nc2ble . ,Lord wished- . ,t0 inquire int the subject, and,wmuircniove for Papers„,be would very .readily Jnicet . him upon the question,-,and the , result of that inquiry would satisfy the 3,.T . 0h1e t,ord, . that, insteid of : bring simply , turned., out of hi's --situation, „that person, was deserving of a more,,sen ous punishment. . --,Vr„ 14421.14 RT .LiIIVL . EY agreed that an 'expla i _ r l nation .shoyld come from Ministers, upon the prei-` sent most important a t -Hdipteresting Stare of Public , Affairs ; that the House ought to see whether thiy' .lead concluded, themselves. wi,th,,firginess.,to4vdrcls . ,Frarkce ; awl he.professed himself inciined. to lie4.r that matter.fairly explained, as well as their intel- • .ti,ons for the future. , : .:ry: ;made .by thc Right Hon. Gentleman, opposite to him, i; was not his intention to liae said any thing, . but some: things which had fallen afecr,fards, made it necessary, in his appreltelsion,,for : him to make a ftw observations. He should. observe.,in clic; first place, ; that in proposing a Vote, of the Army pr . Navy, it had not been usual to, precede, the Motion - - with many arguments, urging, topics in support ~'of ..it; he had thought, it the lesi.ne,oessary..in tlie ; pce sent case, since it was in His Majesty.'s Speechdis tindly stated, and the Sentiment was adop:ed , in the Address, that such measures ouglrr'to be adopt ed, as would be essential for the SeCurity - of this Country. He believed that every Gentleman uti.:. drstood by this, that a large NAvatund Military Est - ablishrnent would be necessary fbr that purpose ; —it -was true there was no -pledge.. ow that subjea, . which was indeed-manifested by the Ipeech of. an 4ivn. Gentlethan (Mr 'Fox), .whtPbad laid in This • .1 , ' olo.: :I:ii •:. :.: .. , . " ._ • c., - •• elaith tht'AMres; oki , h way, the particular: of the quantity of the Force to he votedfor our Peace Establishincnt,; this he men_: tioned to shew that indeed there was napledge, but also that there : was a clear understanding; in the Hce~e; and it was a,general understanding that the Peace Establishment .should be augmented, foe it was,. at. that time, distinaly.stated and avowed by _ _ His Majesty's Ministers, that it was their inten tion to propose,on a day proper. fur that purpose, a very large Military and Naval Establishment, and that on the ground of the circuribtances of Europe, as they considered them at ,that time. So that the Augmentation, now proposed-, cluld not be said to be by way of surprise,oli : any Member in that House. That being the case, it would not be txpeded.that any one of His Majesty's. Ministers should again enter into the detail of that situation, previous to .a Motion fur the Peace EAablisliment—He would undertake to say, that if any such thing had been done, it would be a thing uncommon, if not unpres eedented., He had now some experience in that House, and upon that experience, as- well as some acquaintance with the previous History of Parlia. mentary Prcceedings, he would affirm it was not the praaice of that /House to call• for an Explanation from Government, such as was now demanded, pre vious to the passing of such Vote—it not only had never been required by . the House, but it had never been required by those who were . the most vehe ment opposers of government. He remembered a Pea.ce Establishment •wasSproposed, larger than any former one; and a Member in that House, who at that time was in direa opposition to the Measures of Government, delivered . himself to the following effea s " That if His Majesty's Ministers proposed the Vote, as a permanent Peace Establishment, he Should oppose it; but if there were any ciscurn stances in the then state of Europe, that requited it for the year, it should . have his consent ; because, although -he did' not confide in His Majesty's Mi_ nisters in general, yet that was a confidence which was at all events necessary for the safety of the Stace,- such indeed as must.be reposed for the moment, in very Government, and without - which it could not exist. Ha would therefore say, that in proposing the Army or the \:i.ivy,'i't was a point which neces sarily called fOr the confidence of that House, it was therefore,. of course, fair to ask it." He ad_ mitteds hosteses., it was fair to ask Ministers Whe ther they proposed the Establishment upon their 'views of a permanent policy, or upon circumstances peculiar to the, time its which it was proposed ; and that question, be apprehended, was already answer ed, by what transpired in . that House, on the sub_ jea of .His ,Majesty's Speech, an the Address which followed it, ' However, it was not neces sary for him to. pursue this topic further. The circumstances of Europe were still such as rendered the Vorce now proposed necessary, in the opinion of His Majesty's Ministers; the House 'would be aware that he could not enter into the parti culars.. of such circumstances, without_ , danger of the most serious detriment to ,the ' public ser vice. He wished, this moment, not to be un derstood to stand on any secret circumstances, or on any .Negotiation,tliat might be . ibought% to be depending, or on w ha taGovernment peculiarly knew, or were judging of, but on the state o f t hi ngs , as ! that state is not only known to the House of Corn,: coons,, but ,to every man in this Country ; and now he might take . leave to observe, that from this general knowledge of time state of things, it wa s a ' pretty generalopinion of those why_ gaid any atten- . : tion to it, that there should be, or ought to be, 'a • pretty large Peaestiiblisliiwt iii tins Csotintry, and that desirable as economy at all times . was, as in Peace it generally was, yet that thete'never was a moment in which there was less wisdom in observing what is commonly called economy, ,than the piesent, and it would not escape- the observation '0 Cle HOuse, that at the commence- , t vg; of a . contest, we are never able ! fel' • 'put fOtth • our Force in such a manner aster appear to advan. Lange, in the s eyes of the world, or at all to reseni- Hble chose effort:, by v. hich We bad ;.itherto bein aisl e , to. termioate our contests. Considering this , s ,matfer, with the iieliberafidn that was due to it, J the House wouisl e .psflisps, lie of Opinion, tri4Of a , -60nO>c,Ahcititd,beour, (are, it would . tie better,f r hat. we:044114d be able to put forth our Force more ef-1 ~fOtssak at 'Lac coninwu :,!me k t, than we had hither.: ,its' beAri,able---Io that. point of yie,;..he doubted A syhetkier wl , iaLwaseomprl i sf,called'CCO:l . u:.ly, Wollid .tile tas:the real ath aot t ige. ts t f: this, Conlin e ' l'ae t eS . - :si • small i —on , . wereAther r s eiss . 9rs app i lii:L4F .to the.,stat f e g:bgill; f our 4 Navy , and, Jfirifly, ...stablisliment,, anl. .4 , l4iehi -e:. •-s It ~,regssirAd, • :iliettit2 4 . i hyger than rite ypi , zi ever be,en in ,ttnl6,fil a ,pc,„,6 ar.a.,A i i„„ Fr. a.. ,fpg.:§• copoe4s4:. , yiwiaoqtic", ot:seßipel li ci t I ; 'than,. aviiied„sp,M i liossrble. trotihrs,:ail exe s eatcl ' g•fire,GsUting, irk dip .vt.. , 10t:,0f ixstill4es,boulto4 _ • .‘• r, , .....tfl di : upamojtl,4 - )le ; so r thitt, npon.ny view of [lse ts?ittter i i t ., w as! , impossible: that OVA' Peace' is.:it.ii?fl'lll4 - )! s Alloks,l3e,whail i t.' : l 4 lJdbeen;7 Iles. ~,,, j late er tut 14 be the ,teelings or apprellenSionS oT so - ene s aSnslesneo _sap that subjea, they post_ admit that the incaitiq ... nowa , „. pro'pos4l was nb' surprv4e on them, -rors it w a s . 'aiiri . C,l.iy avowed . by, .ftNesty.''S . Nlin . :iiterll' 4 tlsk discussioo drllis'iVilije•st3l •SieeaV aiici. geilet•• rally .acquiesced in, itq f liiVtillall the,'prre*rit '6iri , cumstances of Eu:rOp, : Ar''..tli Ttims'af ) rthe 1r l'eace,.anci even iviSillith rilieilllie on 'whic'h it iv4s concluded,. it ‘;'vriftild'T , ligisiftlipel iii thWCoutitiy' to keep up, a larger PeAt'd . t.bealiiish , mvi? , may , ei , er-vvas k'ept up . in this tiit'lniirelYik - fciqbeiLliiisiOd:: for he was ijeßgt •eo lt ierifee' r WhaiL Ile `path ' . i4i on e s .fcrni,e;"Piliate"PrY t i 4hi'' II Ose;filha?,.Sltitidir ail the Ciiitiraniicej...'of,' the 'present- m6ttier4, ,Echo i bes'4.4i it a ' 'h'rk aisia ti!.. fled • state; 'by ' tlie a nnexiti;s l ?M‘'ianC6,' aim rby tlie state in whi4h 41 a i • ' other.eotinti es, not arineXtd to her; Iliad' been made de'Pesdetit On , her. ender such - ciictiMstanceS it woulil be preptssterous to say that the Peace' Estil.. blishment of this Country shouid be -reduced to 1 ' what it had been in fdrmer times. 'lt , ;is impm, t ' th e : sible to look .upoitstare of Belgium, or iof 'Holland, or Many Other Countries,' without !e., vetting their gate, and .without.a tielinVon Our part that there alionld be a - trieltl:l.arger Establish. • merit than this Country 'ever kept in time of-Yea4e,. ,He knew it might, be 5a,i4,,, that all,,helad Wen urging , might be ,called ~cguku,t.e ~ c in. t he. l eaßg,: Ito, which 'he l iv,onld F,o•swgr,;; it .wa s not ~4 Auestion whether Europe 'was by the i':ace p 1)140 in ~ • 17 , r'714, •'t condition hav6 6c-ri fur that wi:s hem assumed by any onej ,but the question with us was since nothing was: to be gained - to us- by the continuance of the Whi-1 whether we 'were not more to be secure jri Peace, thaniby the continuance of the W,►r ? Anti another question was, whether that Peace was more likely to be continued by a large Peace Esta. Mishit - tent, or a reduced one ?--=--a question on which he apprehended, there was not mach variety of op; , Dion. Now, if the ease was as he had stated and that circumstances required the force proposed * it [night be asked o • whether this force was not larger than it was desirable to keep up as a permanent • Peace Establishment I That it was larger tha'rtwat desirable .tti be kept up as a permanent Peace Esta blishment in this Country, was true ; at the saute time, he was ready to confess, it appeared to hint necessary, that we should keep it up, and even to increaste it, if the 'circumstances of Europe should require it ; and this was a point in itself so ob vious, that it was unnecessary for him to argue it. What might hereafter govern His Majes., ty's Ministers in the extent of the Force to be raised or to be kept up, it was impossible for Trim, at present, to say. They must hereafter ) as they are now, be governed by a genera view of the circumstances of Eutope. They must • take a view of the ineroachments, or other ma, • nifestations of -the hostile spirit of our opponent, to which Ministers must never be indifferent. He , 2a. thought it was not enough to say that, under the present circumstances . of France and of :ill Europe, it is proper that Great Britain should have the Force now proposed for the year 1803, and so on in the year 1804; but that when the Establishment of the year 1804. shall come to be voted, to core. ' bider the' eircUtustances which may appear then, without 'being hound by any thing that may be adopted ; so that we may then diminish or increase our Force, as circumstances may require. He felt himself by no means prepared to say that he saw the • cOndu4 of France in the same point of view with • the Right Him: Gentleman opposite to him ; but - both hiimelf and the rest of His Majesty's Ministers considered it with regret, as they had indeed done at the moment Peace was concluded ; they had re gat:tied the' state of Europe with. dissatisfadion ; but under a full Consideration of that state, and of 'the . state also of this Country, they thought it a desire able thing, on the part of this Country, to try the experitnent of Peace. It was, in his opinion, de.' sirable at this time for the Country to try the expe. riment of continuing that Peace, that was to say, by all honourable means to continue that Peace, brit at the same time to prepare, and prepare with , vigour, for War, if that should becoinC necessary, in a word, that we should be prepared for either alternative. But when we said we'should endeavour to preserve Peace, it must he in the spirit of Peace, a spirit not, at all derogatory from our Honour, or in consistent with our independence, but a spirit 'that. should not hold out any species of irritation, which' never could, answer any good end, but must, if put.- . sued, inevitably lead to hostility. There was another point which he should shortly. take notice of. It hid been asked whether Peace, with a War Establish ment, %vas mot War ? He had heard that question more than once in 'that House ; and it was a matter which agitated some minds out of it ; but if Gen defile') considered it'seriously arid fully, they would . have no diffiCulty in seeing the very great differ.: cnce between the expellee of Peace-anti War, even upon the large Peace Establishment now proposed. Compared With a moderate computation of the cx; pence of War, it would . make a. difference of from zo to 2- millions of money a year. . He was'aware that, many erroneous calculations had been made upon this subject, but the errors arose from want of a full and adequate consideration of the Subic& —l-le had nothing' further to trouble the House with ; he' only wished to bring back to its consi •deration the point with which he began, namely, that the Hothic did !not usually call for much expla nation, in praposal of a Peace Establishment, or of any Establishment stated to be necessary for the sateiy of the COuntry ; that such raftice was not i consistent with that of the best times in the His _ tory of this Couotry. . It had been usual in those ; titr es to corlde in Ministers, upon such occasionS; 'ant it was not on that ground that he submitted the 'propriety of the present vote ; it was on a ground which was known to all the world, on the situation .- tif - . thingS'as they stand ; such ' ground making it ( a a evident that this CoUraty ought 'to have a large • Peace . Establishment, culler .. to: prepare for War e -m0 , . , • • - • with new vi g our, if chat should become 'necessary, - a , f or to preserve ; Peace with . STeurity and-Honoor. ' ve it'e. CANNING said, - he: hid beard his Noble riaed - this night 'with verb great pleasure.; and if t he t * ry . S'ech which he had;cietkiered, had preceded -ithata , which gave rise to this- , Debate, he - believed the 'Debate itbeff' would ha've .. 'been rendered unneces i-aary -,''for it edgiven him;:upon most of the topics { which" it embraced,' perk& SatisfaaiOn. He, how 4, e.\('e' r_;:a4.ted entirely with 'the propOsition of set eting lietti - the ' Inquiry which produced that S 1 tech::;. 'if Mitostets• had maintained. an en sire illence, as they had -hitherto observed, or . \ . 4 trianireats.v - i a disinehnareon. to enter into a tits . cussien of the topics which had - been discussed to-pight,, he did nor think the ifOuse could have 'b' e a n warranted, in. proceeding.iiron* the measure 'now . prepisea'ro:them;:in 'die damier in .whielt Ministers'iMiledto hav'e expected. 'He fihsered, that ') lt ' bi ' L raid d ' • 1.- - ar lament. o e e to the d is cuss ion of Ills Mejesty's 'Sp'eecla, under circumstances that were aigreed ei:; be very'alaraning am - HUI - F.O anxiety, as i was rreinifesf by the Speech itself ; so muth'sci, that extraoridinary Armaments - were . deemecito be pikes asitrY—Armanients unknown in time of -Peace, and ~.such as never had been before proposed in Thiie of Peace, :which, 'of course; - required 'explanation. 'Witlethe'explanation given by his 'Noble Friend he yrolesse.l, , ingsneral; . to he satisfied. His Noble i kriend i had stated it tiisnci,t usual, in moving for the ~Npy~o,o* tionliii . Speeela from aiiy'of His 'Majesty's Mini: ',stets. ~ "Undoubtedly, when the Amy or the , Navy ~_p ut:ta,tsOvere. only, of the'usual size, such was the, pa' , lea; i litit. when a large augmentation was pro_ (pose..,.mu:st liave been exileffea' that some ex. plaptio? should accompany'iheinorion. He might ~ 1,-.q • ventkqe rp, affiroa, it was entirely withoueprecedent .to pr4v.ie.sLich an 41•11 , rnaiiatithias the present, With_La , , ; i . aa.• , t• . ?f is as at )0r Ssol cl i 0 I