The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1822-06-21 00:00:00

= N 1E! %Y I! ►.. ~.. from the resiilent Trivittstneo anti Shopkeepers of the lows of Man.field, in the County of Nottiegham, praying for for thin protection sgainat Hawkers and Pedlars. Sir T. ACLAND presented . Petition from Honlool, in 'Devonshire, praying fur protection from the jetports*. of. ferries butter.—Ordered to be printed.., c The Irish Hearth and Window Tate IleprislWriessialet dared to be s third on Monday next. SCOTCH JURIES. • - Mr. KIIWNIMT.said, in rising to move the second reading of the Scotch Juries Bill, that lie did not Ail to call to mind the pledge of the Lord Advo -este of Scotland, our the first reeding, to prove that a measure more unwise, more unwarranted, sod more uncalled for had never been seen; and he was glad that the time had at ledaarrived for the Learned Lord to redeem his ple dge. In order to render the grounds of this measure intelligible to English 6eutlemen, it was necessary that he should state a few of the details of the administration of justice in • The Court of Justiciary was constantly sitting in Edinburgh and the Lords of Justiciary went the circuit twice a year.' There were three circuits only in Scotland, and in each circuit there were three towns in which the sittings were held; sad, except in Glasgow, where the utmost time abet the Assize had occupied was a week, the buai. loess was not what would be thought by Airy English person at all considerable, generally finished in one day, rarely exceeding two, and hardly ever going beyoad a third day. In addition to the Courts which ho had mentioned, there was a, Sheriff's Court In each county, which had the power of try lug by Juries, and where the Sheriff or his substi tute presided. The proceedings against parties before the Lords of Justiciary were al Ways instituted - 00 the relation of the Lord Advocate, and in the •• Sheriffs' Courts by the Procurator Fiscal, without the intervention of a Grand Jury, which was on. known in Scotland. Ou the day of trial, forty-five • persons qualified to serve as jurors appeared in Court. upon summons, from whom fifteen were to be takeu to form the Jury. by whom the cause was to be tried. In Edinburgh, the' names • of the forty-five persons summoned were re 'turned by the Clerk of Justiciary, from a list which he hos of the persons qualified to serve on Juries in the city of Edinburgh, the town of Leith, • and the adjacent county. For the circuits the Sheriff of each county sends a list of jurors in the county, out of which the Judge selects forty-five, 'whom lie orders to be summoned to attend ut the appointed time in the town where the circuit is to ~ be held. On the day of trial the presiding Judge .fliileCtS from the list of forty-five, who have been ' =agled as already described, a jury of Miceli ' • sto try the cause. That is the course in the supreme Courts. In the Sheriffs' Courts, the Sheriff is the returning officer of the forty-five jurors, of course summoning whom he thinks pro. per ; and on the day of trial, as the presiding Judge, he selects the fifteen who are to try the cause. The .case winch he sought to cure, was in his opinion sufficiently strong in the Supreme Courts, hut here it was much stronger. In neither of tire Courts was the prisoner allowed the right of challenge, except fur cause *hewn. There were several causes, such as a recorded conviction, special malice, in sanity, deafness, dumbness, or minority, which, if proved, would be admitted as valid exceptions to the party sitting on a jury. But there was no pro. vision at all for the innumerable disqualifications arising out of prejudice. of every kind. of temper, of political feeling. and a variety of other causes. • which could not be particularly pleaded. The laaasure before the House (lid not touch any part the institution previous to the selection of the ,pietty jury (corn the grand assize of forty-five. lie .Massed to take from the Judges the power of no 'blurting the fifteen, which these venerable persons could not but look on as au odious privilege. For selection by theJudge.he would substitute ballot; toed what, as he coocet red, should of necessity follow, he would give the prisoner the right of peremptory cOallenge. The Bill was framed upon long COnsi fieratiun of the subject, and he had only been pre sented by ;washer circumstances et different times two bringing it forward before. In the last Sew s - -gion he introduced it, and it was thrown out in con sequence of the opposition excited against it by the 1 "Lind Advocate. He (Mr. K.) was still at a loss Low to understand the course of conduct which the Learned Lord hod pursued upon that occasion. He nail circular letters (a copy of which the lion. Member read), enclosing copies of the Bill, to the sfteriffs of all the counties in Scotland, pointing their attention to what he conceived to be likely to raise their opposition. He directed them to take the sense of their respective counties on the subject at the ensuing meetings; to urge them to consider That these changes, if once allowed to commence, would lead to others; and that it would be idiom. Bible to foresee the inroads on the administration of Ilse criminal law of Scotland which would be the consequence, nor the increase of trouble to those Stile to serve on Juries which would thereby be othttaioned. He charged them to put,petitions in Melton against the Bill, and to sequoia' him with ant result, in order that he might be enabled to avail himself thereof to strengthen his opposition to the measure. Was such a letter to the Sheriffs a oriiceeding proper to emanate from the Lord Adro- Ogg of Scotland ?—(Hear.)--.Would the Attorney- • Gaiters' of England have dared to address the She riffs of comities in that manner ?—(Hear.)—Would the 'Attorney-General of Ireland have dared to write io such a tone to the Sheriffs of counties in diet country ?-(Hear.)—The meetings that fol lowed were not numerous, end by no means nosni. amiss in their opposition to the measure. All the fillitions that were relit up against it adopted the (age of the Lord Advocate's letter ; their great bur den was the excellence of the criminal law of Scot held, which be had never intended to attack. It was also argued that it was against the Union; but for'ihose whu held that doctrine be would oppose ttiilatithOrity of Lord Hardwicke, and the language eflicli be bad used i.. introducing the Jurisdiction Asir The argument founded on the increase of Vostok to jurors betrayed the insensibility of these *flitted it to the blessing of this invirlesble Meta. tgy, 4 a .H 4 defied any man to lay bid bald ow hie heart and say .thst the measure •in coy way at tacked the criminal law of Scotland.- Her did *sot think himself- boated to answer that erg*. sieentr- If be 4ffloductiel• . 4 good add necessary imadistire, it plea. 10 te,aattaitod it . ,slipold be opposed talliiy net hi was likely to attempt iiddstiosid elbeelifioelin limb** a bedlOder re at soother holear.ifda.patooadat id ASO ilitielle".11101 sod ofits • •j• • •Iry i) J I nioni respecting the defeeS of Scotch jirrisprw. I z deem, in . hard to juries, from the reign of Laja m eo:.ao.re to zfiit present time. He then Te lenet! to a 0101 which took place but • few days so, which strikingly displayed the inexorable tie -Omit, for gdopting Ibis' or some other Bill of the same spirit. The House would no doubt anti ei to that he .!laded to the case of Mr. Stuart. mild not under the circumstances be too speedy in premising, that in his opinion no conduct could be, more entirely free from blame than that of the Judge, the Jury, and all the parties concerned in the tttal. But such'were the circumetancee, theta letter wee produced which proved that one of the Judges had consulted with ass individual on the very conduct which had led to the commission of the fatal act. That Learned Judge, most linnourably to himself, refused to act in any way ott the trial; but so far had he concerned or interested himself, to use the most delicate way of expression, that he was oblig ed to withdraw from his duties. Hit would not add • word upon the facts of that case. But suppose the letter had never come to light, or that the case had been tried in Perth, to which county it really belonged, it was possible that the Judge might have been actually. obliged to select the Jury to try the offence in the instiga tion of which he had participated. He apo logized for having dwelt on so painful a sub ject, to which nothing but a sense of duty would have induced him. He pointed out the great range in the liberty of challenge allowed by the English law of trea.on, and cited the COM. Notaries of Blackstone to shew the advantage of English Juries, and the excelleut noes of the right of challenge, especiAlly in criminal cases, in regard ID the safe and permanent existence of the Con stitution. If this were true in respect to England, how much more strongly did it apply to Scot land, where there were no Grand Juries, where the Leerned Lord himself was the Grand Jury, and selected whom hr chose to try the cause ori ginating from himself ? He exposed the dangerous consequence of leaving the issue to the decision of the majority. A man might be brought to the vilest punishment, to death itself, by the casting vote of one who might be his deadly foe; against whom lie might have such objections , o urge as in England would be enough to move him out of the pannel. The case was fortified to the last degree, when it wee considered that there were Heather grand juries nor coroner's inquests in Scotland, that the whole process commenced in the nature of ex dieio infurinetions from the autho rity of the Learned Lord, and depended on his sole will and pleasure. To these arguments was to be added the arbitrary power of puutshment vested in the Judge„ The necessity for preserving the jurisprudence pure mid unsuspected was obvious. If any Judge wished to retain this power. that was the beet renown for doing it sway; it could not be desired for any constitutional end or advantage. He wished to know why the law of Scotland should be anomalous to the criminal law of all Europe. He had heard this power of the Judges ,being called their privilege out of doors; he hoped there was no Member of that House who would dare to Use such a term for it. It was a principle in jurisprudence to separate the Judge sod Jury as much as possible. The effects of an opposite principle were observable in every Court in Scotland. where it was constant matter of con jecture, in the conversation of the suitors about the Court, what sort of a jury they were likely to have. There were mail things understood respect ing them beforehand—it was generally known end , believed that the persons most obsequious in taking the law (rein the Bench were preferred. He re marked on the auxiety with which an Election Committee was constituted. He thought that the constitution of Criminal Juries ought to be • much more serious matter of consideration. He was con vinced that if the Bill should pass, it would soon be a matter of wonder with the people of Scotland how it came to be delayed till 1833. He apologised for the defects of his speech. and trusted his argu ments, where they fell short, would be supplied by the ability of his friends near litin.-IThe speech was followed by loud cheers, which continued for some nitnutes.le-He then moved the second read ing of the Bill. The LoaD ADVOCATE mid, that the object of the Bill being to assimilate the law of Scotland with that of Englund, some considerable evils of practice ought to be adduced to lead the House into the alteration. From the length of time (too remote to trace) that the Scotch Jury Law had ex isted. sod the absence of any complaint stating abuse down to the present period, he concluded that no alteration wee required ; at least they must excuse Scotthmen for that devotion to their institu tions which made them reluctant to join any al• tempt to alter them. By the articles of Union the Courts of Justice in each country were to be kept separate. He did not deny the power of Parliament to alter them ; but then it ought only to be exer cised fur the good of the wople, and if the peo ple of Scotland did out went the measure, if they were even opposed to it, Parliament ought not to force it upon them. He would venture to say that the Sci tch had no wish for this Bill. There had not been one petition in favour of it, or one com plaint against the old law, since it wus introduced last Sespiou, not even from the Hon. Member's i own seat, Argyle. He acknowledged that he had sent the Bill into the counties, and directed the people to meet and consider if that were • Bill fit to be supported. All the counties but Lanark io consequence had protested against the Bill. As to the power of the Judges, they had no wish to hold it, though they btlidved it to be wise and right for the country if the Perlis. meat wished to take it away. The gentlemen of Scotland were averse to the change. Take the criminal law of Scotland in all its parts, it would beer the test of comparison with any code in the world. Let shwa observe the Petitions heaped oe the table against the ern:goal law of England. No ' loch thing could be said of the Scotch law. The direct teudency of it was towards lowering and dimi nishing the number of ...isle. Let the Hon. and Learned Gentleman go to the Secretary of State's alike, sad learn the difference of capital muteness mood iu the taw cm:attire in the last three vom— its Eughimll.4o9, in Scotland, allowing for the Illigerestes of popubitioa. 4.15 to 11l ; yet Glasgow . sternest Manbfacturing city. which received .to ill the low Alistramed Ida.' • Not so Scotleed. Nor • wen le et re feeds 'hy foam se Wi, ce lei. English parishes, but every body was at liberty to gn where he pleosed. As to the receat'case which had been alluded to, be thought that there was something like bad taste in bringing it "forward. - However, there was no complaint fonnded on it, and there fore it was nothing against the Scotch jury leer. He stated the great object of criminal trial to be the conviction of guilt consistent with the principles of justice, to secure the enforcement of the law rather than to prepare the means of escape for the of fender. He remarked on the difference of the two laws with regard to crimes. In England the pri setter knew nothing of the jury or wit before hand—the law therefore gave him the right of challenge. In Scotland ell the particulars of the change, with the names of the juries and witnesses, were furnished to the prisoner 15 days before hand. But the objections to jurors were as frequently made in Scotland as in England—(A Member asked across the table. " Arid challenges on the case?")—end challenges on the case were as fre quently allowed. He considered the difference in the two laws as wholly indifferent—it was but as a difference of custom. A discretion must rest somewhere in preparing the pound. In England it was left to the Sheriff; in Scotland they pre fer►ed leaving it to the Judges, as the persous likely to he most impartial. Sir J. MACKINTOSH lamented that Ministers had shown such indifference, as their absence intimated, to this very miscount subject. He thought (hut there could be oo stronger rebuke to the unneces sary opposition, and hard names givers to the Bill, thee the able and temperate and convincing manner in which it had been brought forward. lie would attempt an answer to the two sett of objections, ge neral and specific, each in order, which had been set up by the Learned Lord. The first objection was on the ground of theory......one of the conside ration, on which those who were opposed to reform disguised their hostility to common. sense. It had been well said by's very great Mill, that no one be came all enemy to reason until reason first became an enemy to him. He had himself remarked in the course of hie life, that few disinterested persons were ever opposed to the course of right reason. Rotolo boa was sometimes the watch-word—.the proper term here was theory. The considerations offered to them the existesice of the old law—the wont of in. stances to prove evil in the practice of it—the absence of all complaint against it—the Petiornis egeinst the Bill before them. He would first, however, call the attention of the House to a me. morable instance of similar opposition to an im provement in the Scottish law in the abolition of He.. riieble Jurisdiction. He cited the opinion of Lord Chancellor Hardwicke upon it. His Lordship had shut out of the view the Rebellions of 1715 and 1745 ; he had declared to be unnecessary to impute evil to the conduct of those who held the power ; he had asserted the necessity of a change, on the bare ground that it was a bad model of govern. (Dent. He tons met by the Jacohitisli Opposition of 1747 with the very sense arguments used by the Learned Lord. In owe cast the Learned Lord hod been anticipated almost in force. A Jaco bite Nobleman prayed Parliament not to force a blessing on the Scotch which they did not wish to receive. Lord Hardwicke, however, persevered, and was supported by the Duke of Argyll, who yet was of' opiuion that the Scotch did not wish fur the alteration. All the arguments of the Learned Lord were from the Jacobitish inint,t but none of them were listened to; the Parliament followed the advice of Loud Hardwicke, and ctuehed them to atoms; as they most now, if the principles then maintained by that great men, which were inherent in reason and the constitution, were still to be maintained. He was glad of this opportunity of declaring his opinion of that great man, now that he had come to a better and more accurate sense .of his character, because he in early life had been warmly engaged iu op posing a measure produced by Lord Hardwick,. The Learned Lord might have objected to thn abolition of heritable jurisdictions (the greatest bless ing ever bestowed upon Scotland since the Moon, except the trial by jury in civil cases). Those rea sons which he had urged egainet the present Bill, would have equally applied to that measure. With respect to peremptory challenge. the ex perience of England, from time immemorial, had proved that the tight of peremptory chal lenge was an essential part of the trial by jury. It was contended by the Learhed Lord, that. the delay it would occasion by detouring the Judges et Aberdeen or Inveruess would be en sirconvenience— and again, that the small number of prisoners to be tried in Scotland rendered it unnecessary ; but, if the practice had been found safe sod good in England, how much more would the argumenis in its favour apply to Scotland, where the number of prisoners was so much smaller ? It should always he recollected that in Scotland a majority of the jury might convict, and there it was desired to have only four peremptory challenges. whilst in England there were twenty peremptory challenges allowed, and the jure must be unanimous. lie then alluded to a recent case which had occurred in Scotland. The late Sir Alexander Boswell had, it seemed, consulted the Judge _previous to the duel, who might, if kir. Stuart.had fallen, have had to sit inAndgrueut on him; and had the cause been tried at Perth, he would hive had the selec ting, or rather the picking of the Jury. What had once occurred might frequently occur. and was this, he would aak, a safe practice, and one proper to be continued, when the remedy was an pry ? He believed that the admission of the lower and middle classes of the community in large numbers to serve on juries had mainly contributed to form the excellent aatiotial character of England. He thought he did not overrate the advantages of it when be attributed to such attendance that atten tion to law end reverence fur justice which had always characterised the English nation, producing independence of mind, with obedience to the law ; qpiet, instead of turbuleut. and •bea, usfortu &witty. Cini.diseads had broken out, it so softened Umatilla incident thereto, that scene* which in ge nteel were meet disgraceful to human nature, filled • the most honourable chapters of English history. fan . • _conciuoiNli be trusted the House would nut deny the fulhfrenefits elan institution to Scotland. COLONIAL TRADE BILL A message from the Louis annonaced that their :I,ordysjigl posed ti r . ColcmAtt .laid sod eater nal% a t er Rhicb tle.debeet wasidesuandkrt.. , v. t •Ler .Stainia laid * be costiflitEllicableikar • ' .4. - - • • • • of all petitions from Scotland as a cdneldsive proof that no inconvenience had ever been felt in that country, and that the present measure w a s e n s necessary. Allusion had been made toan old and me 'peeled friend of his, as if he had mixed himself up with a recent ;nisfortunate treusaction, he meant Lord Meadowbsaik. Sir Alexander Boswell had, indeed, gone to consult with him oo the settlement of his .worldly affairs. In the agitation of mind which the father of a family might be supposed to feel in each • situation, he forgot that Lord Meadow. hank was a Judge as w«ll as an old friend. But the Learned Judge, if he (Lord Binning) was rightly informed, recalled his attention to that circumsiance, end put • atop to the conversa tion. How then had he mixed himself in it I—the communication was made, and he could not avoid it. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had drawn a variety of conclusions from this cir. cumatance, sold hid supposed, if Mr. Stuart had heel) tried at Perth, whet would have take.) place ; but he would tell the Hon. and Learned Gentle man whet would base taken place:—Lord Meadoerbask would not have gone that circuit. He (Ltted Binning) 44. derstuod that the Hon. Member for Gorham, -hem he was glad to see in bee place, tneaut to attack the office of public prosecutor in Scutland,—to kill that treat Leviathan, •ad ingraft the whole system of English Grind Juries into the Scottish law He (Lord Binning) should prefer the se. letting of Juries to be in the iodate, which he consi dered a better mode of procuring an infringes's Jury tbs. treating 10 blind chance. The Judges, when they went the eireolt, did not know what emotes would come htfore them, sad entail not therefore be supposed to exert any partiality la nominating the Juries. He regretted the thin attendance of Members us this important aeration, and spolugised for having occupied so mock of the time of the House. Mr: HORACE TWISS could not agree with filenames assigned for denying t►e right of peremptory challenge, and he.strould therefore give his vote for the second reading of the Bill. He should support the Bill, not as a preli minary meager, to hither alterations, because, in Let, the measure stood Orme, and called for nothing further after it. The list of the Jury gives to the prisoner before his trial was widoubiedly a valuable privilege, but of no ■se whatever to him, tanks, he had the power of rejecting some; and if the House should deride un rejecting the ballot, the arguments i■ f of peremptory ebslle•ges nip ir?d tenfold force. It was enough for the argument in favour of the challenge that souse might arise; it was out sufficient to say that such oceurrencies were rare. For these muslin ha should vote for the second !radial; of the Bill. Mr. PEEL mid, as he entertained doubts as to the pro piety of the presets( mode of selecting the Jury, ha should sat oppose the second reading fo the Bill. He could con ceive it to be very pomitsle that prejudices might operate to • greater ement,,on • small number of pm SUM, in Scotland thou I. Engiasel ; but thinking that, while the present mode of preparing the lists bum which the jury of fifteen were to be skein was comported, the probability was, that the Judge woold select a better jury fur the promoter than he had a enlace of clarions; by the ballot, corrected only by the power of challenging, he thought it would be advisable in the Ant instance to provide a greater number of jurors from whom the ballot was In be taken, rather than introduce the ballot Miasma to *mall a oupuber. Os these grounds he should out oppose t►e second reading; but hoped that is . the Committee Wile arch alterations as thine he had already suggested would be introduced. Mr. H. DRUMMOND supported the second reading. The Bill was thee road • &embed time, and ordered to be committed os Mouday neat. IRISH BUTTER TRADE. Sir N. COLTHEIRST, In miming pursuant to notice for a Cummitiee of the w►ole House on the Irish Bettie Trade .Act OS George 111. rap. 23 ), could not refraiu from ex pressing his regret that it bad out here thought expedite' by his hlsjesty's Governmebi, and the Right Honourable the P.esideet of the Board of Trade, to bring the questme be fore the Hour. The'groneds on obich he Noodled his pro ceeding were—trot, the' a protecting duty ie Issuer of t►e butter trade of Ireland was necessary ; and secondly, that lb, protection afforded ought lobe folly adequate to the securing of the interests it was Intended to support, or it would be wholly Mowry. The principle of prnircinra is the cue of the better trade had already been admitted sad acted on, by the imposition of a duty proposed by be Right Hoe. Gentleman himself kit ISIS, of* duly of 2Ss. per cwt. on foreign butler imported in foreign ships, Bed of 20s. per colt. if imported ie Britivb vessels. That duty did fur • time operate as check. At the period when he peopued it, the Right Honourable Geutleman was told that it would be found inadequate, sod answered that, if it should opus ex periesice prove so, he should be ready to move an increase. That an i was now become necessary, he 'rooted would appear from the fact, that the quantity of foreign butter sold iu the English market had *early doubled since that duty was Srst laid en, sod the quantity of Irish butler conoomed had decreased in proportion. The cousrquenee had been, that the price bad fallen from between 800. and 90a. to between 410 s. and 505., sod the latter price was now only nowise!, and he was credibly Wiformed, that if the im. purtation in this year kept pace with the last, there would be no demand at all for Irish butter is the market. This falling off is so extensive • braticli of trade, was not con. Ailed in its prejudicial 'frets to Ireland, but meal aloe ma terially affect England, by the diminution IN the quantity of British manufactures imported into 'reload, and toe number of British vowels which would be ►brown out of employ. The remedy which it was his Witt:attn. to propose was, ea of Ile. per cwt. to the duly ott fore's* butter. He concluded by moving, that the Speak!: do maw leave the chair. Mr. H. GURNEY deprecated the exteasiost of that sys tem which seemed to have regulated their proceedings of late, that &wised was to pay every thing, and Ireland nothing. Tbit p. isiciple seemed to have regulated the shams already imposed on foreign butter, end to have exteuded itself is re. cent Instances to the remission of taxes. He o.'ioald be at all times ready to go as far as any man is mode seats to relieve the distressed condition of the poor people is Ire. laud ; but he never could coolest to impose taxes as the people of England fur the sole pompom us keeping els exor bitant mots for the benefit of the lauded Geutlemen 4( Ire , land.—(Hear.) Mr. E. ROBINSON said, though he rose to oppory Ike motion of the Hun. Baronet, it was sat on the puma& which bad been alleged toy the floe. Member who had jaaf MA down (Mr. Gainey). H. did sot oppose it Weems, Ilse was unwilling to give every possible pioiectiou and enrolee nthenstrot to tie Wends of Ireland, but betties, he did not think it expedient, eves for 4htme interests., to carry the pro tetllosl of the hotter trade further than the present law bail carried it. It was true that is 1816 be had said that he should be ready to increase the duty thee imposed ea foreign batter, if it should be found inadequate as a protection to .the batter trade of Ireland. But he sleeted that the Mini intim in price proved inadequate palmetto*, or that it was at all noted by it ; for a corresponding diaziaation had oc curred in the pries of all other witcha of ageteolinni produce. Looking at the shasiiiiished valve of Irish batter, sod at the amount of duty imposed on the int. ;seriatim' of foreign butter, be (owed that the extent of grattctio• enjoyed by the former was equal to 50 per put.; *Lk& the Honourable Bartmet proposed to increase to 76 per ant. But If 50 per rest. would not afford an ade quate protection, he knew not how far it might act he tar ried. The quantity of Irish butter imported :on Eueland in the last two years was larger than at any former period ; that the quauttty of Dutch hotter imported was alai metres ed, proved s conelderably enlarged piton. Bogor was one of the few iirtichas which afforded the Dutch the means of paying foe the coottoodities witch they drew from this country; end If weemealatmotaide that murder to f the consumption of the rase commodity produced at home, at a higher price, be could see no red to the system of tx• chasion. The same reason might, stud indeed had beau urged for protection from the tallow of Russia; sad right with equal ream. be I weeded to articles of the staple prudere of My country with which we bad stay trade; and thus bony V of the interests if thh country meat ultimately 4e lyre! )4001 4 bX IMF to the exteettes of those tett:Kt:ye triteistioes. A. therefore felt Mend? ANA, lhoti:lt re. luetantly, because be knew that a strati reell:4:: the soh. jeer bail been raised in ibe minds of tbone iatere.ts were concerned is Ireland, to oppose the Motion of tho H hie Sinnott. Sit 1. NEWPORT said, nothing could le Mort caadid than the mariner in •bich this question hadhetn treated by the Right Hon. Gentleman; but very rtifferokbe isnot ob serve, was the hostile tone of the Hon. !Mather hp, Nee wick (Mr. Gummy). He denied that any Ober had beea steno to Ireland ip the remission of taxes. Rd manstaised, on the contrary, that the relaxation .t tanstiba to - Great Britain had hero infinitely larger in proper's'. thaw Is !re bind. He founded himself in that trammel. Moe tie. Re port of the Committee of 1815, which &Male!! that team lion, even inelsoling the war lairs, had adesieeil in Itelaad in a larger end more rapid degree than in Goat Britain. He maintained that !reload was entitled to a enter promotion. ate relaxation than this country. With reopen to whit had been said abort favouring the peasantry, hut am the landed gentry of Ireland, all he could my was, that he firmly be. hewed that the best meant the Howse could adopt fur in. proving the condition of the permute-, of Island wm, to enable the landed Gentlemen to derive the grated mummy of advantage from their possessions that Mel Might be en abled to spend their rent. among them. He is vote me the Hems womb, not accede to the stemmas which had been so isenooderairly applied by the Homorahle Mem ber (Mr. Oursey.)—(ll.ar, hear )--With respect to the ques tion before the House, if the isicmated coienaptlou of.tlis haul latterly been espobed by Holland, it was clear that the duties no longer afforded to Ireland that protection for which they were proposed. Ireland paid fur the aneoefac tares of this country which she comunied, with the news productions of her soil; and from that summoner furnish. d the renta of her absentee proprietors, which wee spent tre.e, and, whet ought never to be left out of the enmultration, by being spent here, largely contribeted to the taros in this part of the Ittnerlom. It would be fund that tee quantity of British manufactures costumed in Ireland was greatly di minished. The amount of woollen mautulectures im ported juts Ireland from this toiletry in 1613. alas t i nhoonni. mid in the last year it was railer below 1,0181,000/. The decrease in the consumption of other ',sidles of twos facture was nearly equal. Aud the ease of this diotiegtiot MIN that Ireland had no looter the nears of papier for these articles. This country had the monopoly of the Irish market, it wee therefore* from Mobility a'oise that Are con. gumption in that market could have decreased. The impro vident system of taxation that had bees pun sell boards Ireland, had absorbed all ha pouffe, and her triFitsf, in a great degree, and bad left the people without the anent of cousunito Mr. RICARDO said the only site by wbleb Oa Right Hutt. Baronet who had jest sat down, and the Hs. Baronet opposite (Sir N. Cr:Athlete), appeared to measure prometion„ was monopoly. He was opposed to all such pleas of pro tection, nod maintained that for the tater-est ewes of kelaud herself, that species of protection ought, literal of b r i ng eitend.rl, to be gradually dresinistred, until by degrees the trade of the country became entirely free aid ors. Ihy after day they were assailed sib deemed' for protection to some part teeter interest. One day for ogriculturel produce, smoker for tallow, then for West India sager, and !Yes for the shippiug interest. The words of a must etrelima wake on this subj. ct (Adam Smith) oriel.' be more lately to command the attention of the Hoime, then say thing he could offer. That writer sad, Coosomperm is the mar eed sod purpose of all production; and Cie Ware/ of the producer ought only to be sthriolsd to se far as it tennis to promo'e the inter:et of moment.. But to our mercantile system, the interest of the prod-am alone seem* to have bees consulted." With respect to the parti cular question of the butler trole, the most false ri resents (lons had been put forth. Allit.Pg others, is tiee petition from Dublin, it was stated that there had lucre • el isteation in the quantity of batter exported from fretted last rarer 10,963 cot. But what was the feel? By the rasa! re. forum, the quantity of holler aaaaa Ily imported .lets' this country fens Ireland mime 1616, the year to valid t the se lecting duties were hopes el. moppet,/ to ben folio. !Net.— ln 1811, 381,789 ewe.; 1817, 8110,000 cwt.; 1818, 306,080 cwt. ; 1819, 333,300 cwt. ; 1820, 430 000 cwt. ; 111111, 431,000 eve ; mud 1821, 413,0110 cwt. do thee t hes 64 beets a regular increase up to the pretest lime kletead leech a decrease oohed been rep. emoted. Nr. S. RICE said, he should be extremely gl i ad 91 country were is a saltation so adopt the principle di*. trade which were receipt:soiled by Iris Huotterabigh bleed (Mr. Ricardo). But he must creates that in the prey' !ma.. &ion of Ireland and of this country, be could *et seri. pate any practical good resoles from the principles offs:. twat economy, however correct they might be is thtegb. elricC Though the agues its the •ivoota which I adjust bees read showed that the quantity of butter it sported Wei this couatry from le-load, instead of demi seeing had increased; yet the fact wee, that the grew er port of what had bees au imported was lying in tt e Sire. honors almost uataleable from the want of r !mind, owing to the splay of Dealt better la the mote. To argue, therefore, from ttte import returns, se lot rase of the trade beneficial iu any degree to irelsod would o sly lead le an erroneous conclusion. The fact of the deere mod de mand in the oaten(, (men the increased supply oi* Hutch hotter, appeared to hum to be an unanswerable proo f d (he inadequacy of the testing hers as a protectims to ti e hater trade of Ireland. Mr. T. WILSON opposed the motion. He could net, however, admit that the principles of trade, quoit d by the Hon. Member for Portartingtuo, were at all applicable the present condition of this roentry. One priaripal mow of the increased consumption of Dutch butter was, that the butter imported into this country hum Hollao4, was of a much *ulterior quality to the Irish butt., ; the halter hen still made op,llll it bad been duroug the war, for the sapyll of our Meets mid armies. Mr. C. WESTERN reminds(' the Honourable Member fur Pottathogiens that whoa Adam Smith wrote, Baglsoe was capable of predating at cheap es any other count?; but the ~rooms growth of taxation 'dace that merited tru ing Ilmeisig pet it out of her poorer to Insini‘la a cot apeeiOra is Ptoduee with other countries; she principles upplicAk to the former period, could mot sow be brought halo .seit *permit's. He was merprised that Gentiesma shim 1 he ta ametoos of extending our code with rumen coo MOW, HI relievers' to Ireland, white she tatter meld commie ee much iseger• mummify of British manufactures. and by " doing coatrabote much men to the general prompt.' ity a lee empire. Mr. HUSKISSON begged to assure the Hoesomilbe her nho had just sat down, that be was net Ms 16104 whoever sorb person. might be, who preferred the bleeme" of •ay fudge cosatry to those of any part of our nos respire; and if he thought the present motion espe!Ple of producing any permanent advantage to Ireland, co mead of cootribitting to Maintrion those Missive othot , a l which were too geverally resterta.ned on these polies's, " -mould gladly give it his pummel. In ISO. the t ear I 0 the import oily ems imposed on foreign butler, the ertuaere in i mried from Hothead ems 125,000 Cwt.; which fell 1 • 171/11 to ill,ooo oat.; and ',wash it had r uses Iliac, the to, it awl never reached higher than in 1822. when 115,000 :wt. Val the quaatiey imported. Su that the Demme of the tar* sties from Holhind was less 'son ia 1010; bat ation float belated was iocteased. Ilse case of lb. 1. creased imomeetation from Holland emelowhiedly we that the price bad feline there more thig it hod Is tgloot- The Hoamerable Hammel urged the fall of the rein le Ireland as • reama for locuresiag the prottetten; be (Mr. H.) should have thought the converse Y ea ' porissitiso le be either nearer the troth. The fli ber fur Eats exiled for protection on account of She awe of lametioe leeieg greater that. in other musty Tee l verities of tazation might soon he retied by a lake° to Ike relative mutation of Holland with b dad IP that rowel. Hott.tod he maintained to bs ell Lard coisalty is /be world, sot ezerteleg B&W` Holland peed • tax on laud, and ewes a ear a mei idle d ' Ike raw material 'emir. (d langb.) sad Ireland had WO' leg duty is her favour of 211 a. per ewe. If Halle o d e e ll supply this market cheaper than Ireland, It was hes 1. : 6 . ; mice these had fatless meth more, and it mead Murk cheaper. If the price erf hotter bed bike m 0 1 " the price,* vetoer articles of medusa, there might I Pe a chase* of good from rairiorlor mica byenlectsiteat Oil r e ; set, But *bon it was lemma that every odperteameoct slat be eabelltuled for it so «wampum, Ira oral, ■ MEI :~ MN I I i 3 J i 1 1 1