The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1822-05-16 00:00:00

I 18,0001 Thole of the United State. from 9,6701.. to 7,4-261. It was singular enough that the Eng lish Ambassodor in the United States received 6 .0 00/. a year, being 5001. more than the Presi. dos , the supreme magtstrate, received from the Americans. There might be some reason for keep.. j og op a due portion of splendour in the European Courts, hot there could he none for such a system in the simple Republic of America. He remarked. a fter pointing out several other particulars in the rapers, of the same kind, that the pry of Amber- Sif ters was always received in full, without its being su bjected to the losses by exchange, whirls in ni toy mimic-es +mounted to 30 per cent. Ile pointed out the heavy charges of the French Embassy. He was not or opinion with those w h o 'bought Ihyt from the peculiar situation of Parts, Sir C. Stuart ought to be enabled to provide • table for English travellers. It might he very agreeable to the host sad guests to have anniptuons dinners provided ; ' hat it was not 10 eleesaut to the country, when it Wit discovered that they were to be paid • sat of taxes which it was not quite certain the people would be able to bear for another year.— He could not think that the country would lose any thing i" character, or that its splendour would be . diminished by such an economical arrangement.— Ile should not trouble the House longer ; he was aware that he should be met by the argument which was generally resorted to on every motion for eco nomy, meetly, that admitting some of the es [Renee were umiecesoary, yet it was proper to mishit/no them, in order to preserve the splendour sod iidiarnee of the Crowu. But he had no ob jection that that argument would be resorted to. in order that the House might have another opporto- ' 'pity of expressing their opinion on its unconstito timidity. The Hon. Member concluded by pro. lees ow— That s Committee be appointed to take ism considers. lion the ex posses of the Third C 1,., of the Civil List, sad report their °pipings to the House, whether mid what sewing trtulJ be erected is that airs, with • view to carrying it to the Ciserolidated laud, in pursuance of SA Gru. 111. eap. 46, sec. 5." Lord LONDONDERRY said. that he wished to make a few observations on the motion of the Ho ' enterable Geieleinuri who had jest oat down, and he could assure the House that in making those remarks, which lie trusted would induce then to room with him, he should be as economical of their time as possible. The Honourable Gentle man had very properly adverted to that act of splendid munificence which hod been done 'by his Majesty at the early part of the Session, but he did not seem tc, give to that subject the weight which it deserved. But as the Hon. Gentleman had confined his motion to the third claim in the civil list, be should best economise the time of the House by following his example. Formerly it was the practice to comprise in the civil list s vast number of expenses, of so indefinite • ch4ructer that it was impossible to form it correct milieu of the- rod timonnr, and as it was always taken at the sofidintles, it was generally found neces miry to Imre/tie it; but of late years the civil list had been regulated with respect to the exeencli. lure, Dud the same principle had been carried into the third class, which formed the subject of the pre sent discussion. That class had been distinguished into separate heads, and none were adinined into it neept set+ es were of ;hat fixed character, whereby a proper estimate could be formed: it comprised the pensions to . ';orete,:i Ministers, the sums paid to Con sols, Nod the salaries and house rent of foreign Minis ters. Braid. . these, there were the extraordinaries to fannigleMi Mater., tile outfit and presents, and he was sure the House would see that these were not proper strtiects fur the consideration of a Com mittee 131,a sta i n. He had no doubt that the Hon. Member for Aberdeen would like that mode of proceed ing very well, but he hoped that the House wonlei consider that as long as the country pos sesses 1 a monarchical government. it would be highly improper that the executive government shot* Id he conducted by a Committee up stairs.— (Cie err from the Opposition Benches )-• He perrect ly ugre ed with the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Lennard) that thee !lesson (Melons dist i net ion between the tie rd class and the other classes of the civil list, Mid it was sub jet t toe diminution iii time of wer, and to an increase ai our relations with foreign States were extended. Bt •t while lie admitted this, he must protest against th system attempted to be introduced of &sat:Po lo 4 the whole et' our foreign policy to Committees it pi stairs, and having a Secretary of Suite to attend II tem. If as) stem were pursued, it would be k.etter to withdraw our foreign Ambassadors altoge- I her, for he knew of no coarse more likely to vreale • spirit of jealousy and hostility between two elms dries ; sod if such it proposition were cemented fee tPris year, next year probably we should hear a mir tams mode for the appointment of • Committee of !Public Safety.—(Cheers from both sides of the nse.)—He could calculate on nothing short of thu .t wheal the Government of this codutry was con tra steal with that of die UMW States. But he must poatest against the policy of forming those commie In us, winch seemed to ilium • disposition to prepare th eouldic mind In, the reception of similar doct rines. (Cheers from the Opposition.)—lf the advice of G entlemen opposite was to be attended to, they 'light as well abaudeu all the principles of their foreign eolicy. mod then tense of dignity which ibis outry had always upheld, and their representa tives oo the Continent should hereelker" mopes,. in Arne paspesis. Whilst he 'dated thus much, he hoped the House would nut suppose he meant to shrink from the gettersl investigiatiuit of Iliequess. tier), or that he was indisposed to adhere to that spirit of economy which the times required. The Clow. Gentleman who brought forward the question bad waled that there was • perpetual increase of the Civil List, hal tio cemirsiiii ou was to be observed. Bat be was pre paled to she, that roluctiona bad taken place ha the Civil Litt, and more than once or twice. lie leaked at this rpiettion with respect to the three heads into which it Was naturally divided, and which properly came withiu the Re solution which had been proposed. These wore, the pensions, the CObfiliri fees, and Use salad,* and Weise real of Foreign Ou this subject the memory of a be How. Gentleman ail nut term to b^ very micurate. The last war was one of a peculiar amid protracted character, sad the blisiztais then in flei , iire on the comment were mostly of an advanced •ge, and could taut be Inuit& isle service us the reatotatios of the pence. He did rot with to allude to particular mimes, but he would take the list op.'s the table, and by it tie would ea fir the character nf, the Govetomeirt to he tried, whether pots lay WM of them the pressamption of sal-adininistrution , coats, be rallied. With respect to the Cousok, that subject was at preacat ander the consideration of the Committee upot, Fortiin Trade, and he should not therefore italsarftre Will, it. Bat be must make a few ulwervatiours us elm third hrsot hof the subject, which formed the gist the heatable Gentlemaa's artfilrrnt. The Hon. Gentleman had indeed admitted that • small redaction had been made is the Foreign Missions. The salaries of Foreign Ministers had undergone nu alteration frum she Reign oft:Neve Anne, to the year 1804. At that lime a limited irecrease took place, but so many additional expenses were included, that it was Parliament the best economy to considered afterwards by grant oh.. public nil abroad more liberal salaries, and to limit the extraorditearies in such • manner that leo abuse should take place. Upon this principle, in 1815, Parliament took up the subject, and a Committee was appointed to form some scale of salaries. That Kale was considerably larger then than now. The salaries of the Foreign Mitosters amounted at that time to 152,0001.—at p t it was only 135,0001. An Rent certainly Ink place iu the Interim, which rendered the redaction has sensible to them than it otherwise would have been—he meant the removal of the property tax. By the Isle arrangement 10 per cent. was now reduced from the eateries of Foreign Ministers, which would, with the other reduction, make a saving on the retinae,' of 1815 of shunt 30,0001. Now it was a little too much to say there had been sin reduction, when from that steteiectit it would appear (bat can the whole there had been a reduction of 20 per cent. —, Hear, hear.)—Then there were usher branches which were lefi out of the Civil Lief, but were subject to the &banal con trol of Parliament. In ISIS the extraordinaries amounted to 50,000!., and they. were now reduced so 27,0001.; con. sequently there was a saving of 23,0001. on the eatraor. dietaries. The fees amounted to 7,8001.; the post office charges to 7,000?. It cost for couriers 2,000!. and there were the occasional comic'', between mission and min. min. But he +es sore the Howfle were satisfied with the es. planation he had given, and that they would require • better case to be made out by the Hcaeourable Gentleman oppo site berme they gave their sanction to the ?lutetium of a con tract between the Crown and that House, and compel the to...vents of the Crowe to disclose the is of foreign States to a Committee up steles. If that coney, were to be pour ' seed, some ether Secretary of Slate worst be bitted, for be *ever could resent to be is the leading stings of that Coin miller. It was a little late in the day for the Flotiouralele Gentlrorien to call upon the Howse to violate the comeact with the Crown, when the most economical arringeenente had been effected, that could whir' , an. reasonable mar.—(Hear.) He now came to the number of mission,, and be was pre pared to shew that they were not inure mementos now than in die emus seirebilis 1792. In that year we had Ambassadors at Fiance, Spain, C tantineple, and Hut laud. In 1922 we had an Ambassador at France, bet not at Spate, and this would shear dist it was not n. pessary to ad dress the Crown ore these subjects, for the Government of the country would modify or change according as a necessity arose. We had also Ambassadors at Holland, Russia, and Constantinople. In Ibis course they had followed the wisdom of oar ancestors, not likely to be otreerted by any thing he law growing tip on the other side of the House. In 1792 we had Ministers Plenipotentiary at Prussia, Portugal, the Two Sicilies, America, Sweden, Bavaria, Sardenia, Wirtemberg (the only addition to the number), and Saxony. Now from *hie the House would see that, with one exception, no in crease had taken place since 1792. He now came to the state of Italy. The Rae. Gentleman had asked, why there should be a Minister at all at Tuscany' He answered, there bad always been • Minister from this country at Tuscany, and more than that, there was not a Power in Europe that meld be named that had nut a Minister there. Did the Hoe. Gentleman suppose that there should be no Minister at say Court where there was not • great deal of business to do? The situation of Tueeaey in relation to Italy and Germany, was quite sufficieat to justify the policy of those Powers who kept Ministers there, in order to know what was going forward in that part of the world of which they formed a pert. The Honourable Gentleman had also laid great stress on the Embassy to Switserland, but he (Lord Londonderry) looked forward to the discussion to morrow evening with• out any alarm. He should like to know where the Honours. ble Gentleman had got his information as to the little ins. portiere of Switzerland. But the fact was completely the ✓everse. There has been no period in which there was not a Minister from this country at the Swiss Centime, and all on the scale of Plenipotentiaries. Indeed, in look ing over a list he found there had been a person of the Dime of Vaeghen employed there with a salary of 7601. a year. For what crime in diplomacy be had been consigned to that sitestioe he could nut cooceme. Bet it was the general policy to keep a Minister at the Swiss Cantons. It was the key and bond which kept together the whole system which had been solemnly retitled by the great Powers at the Congress of Vioists. The House would perhaps allow him to stale, that there was no less. pelmet appointed there than Coon* Cape d'lstria, from Russia. Spain, with all her plans of erouomy, had so Am bassador there ; yet it was whispered shout here that the Embassy to the Swiss Cantana from this country had been revived for the aceomplishiog of aortae party objects; but this statement was founded either in miscoureption or false. hood, for there was not one word of truth in the m cher.— (Hear, hear.)—With respect to dee emelumeuts of she Em. bossy, it bad been said that that also had been segmented; bet she salary now enjoyed by Mr. Wyse was tea per rent. lees than that received by Mr. Stratford Cseni•g.—(Hear.)— He would admit that if the missions could be cemeducted more economically, the Ministers would fall In their ditty if they did not advise the Crowe to that effect, notwithstanding the settlement of the civil list. But he would ask, was there any one tmb] say that a person could live in this country far less than don's* what they could in 1792; and he put it so any mass its the House who had lived en the Continent, whether the increase of expense in foreign capitals was slot greater proportionally than here, in consequence of the great index of English, who introduced habits of profuse expen. dilate. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to think there was no necessity for the Ambassador extendiog his hospitality to his fellow countrymen; he perhaps would think differently if he were abroad ; but the expense of these missions did nut rest on those grounds only, but ein others, which he flat tered himself even the Honourable Gentleman would ad. mil. At the time the errangemest of the salaries was made, they were made larger, as it was intended to charge the Ambassadors with all the expenses when they should be absent on their private affairs, which was nut the case fur. merely. Now, when an Amba.sedur was absent, he allowed out of his emoluments W. a day to the Secretary of the Em bony, amounting generally to one belt the appointments. With respect to the duly be would say that Otis country bad more to du with the Continent now than at any former pe riod of her biaiory, and at no femur period of our history had we possessed more of the confidence of the Powers of Eu rope than at the present moment; and he begged hire nut to be understood es confining him.. If to the great Powers, but al.ce to those minor ones which the Honour. able Gentleman would treat so cavalierly. The free communication which now look plate between the Powers of Europe and this Country, was • ;11•••161Ct for the continuance of peace; but se * cousequeuer, there was a ems of business and correspontleme in she Foreign Of. Ice, and in the office* of the principal Ministers, which rendered it impassible to be conducted brit at great expense. le the offices of the fire principal Miuisters there were at least four persons employed in ilte correspondence •lone. He (Lord Londonderry) might be partial to these persons, bet he bel,eved there never before was stiell a male of diplo. matie knowledge and experience as this country now poll. tressed. Esclusiee of the four gentlemen, there were out less than twenty yourig gentlemen now serving in the ethers of the Analiessadors, without fee or reeard, in the same man . nor as t her-leeks in she Foreign Office were employed. To. y were thus ienprueing themselves in knowledge, and the only advantage they boll wan living at the Ambesseerlor's table.— (Hear, hear.)—These were seirsiees that the country could , not gel for lest, than four or five huodred a year to each of the individuals. The Ministers, therefore, could not be charged with meting in tl:e spirit of patronage, when they availed themselves of so large a portion of gratuitous service for the Wilke benefit. He had authority fur mashie thct this diplomatic service, which war supposed lo be so largely 464014E11, was in fact a losing service; it w its • suet of hunutirahle banishment from their cuuutry, and en abet Per woof eesllllol7 ought to be liberally considered. Ha had (be •ill horde of the late and present Ambassador to . il. Petersburglettar pre seat Austrian Antbaasador, and the late v , Ambassador to the Pirelierlando, as sit sir elpeli•Vl of those • missions. The pretest Andiasmador to Si. Peteralionli said that lie could only conform to • reduced expenditure by I "Mg lit • ddiercist nrianli , r from his predecessors, and . 11 , silseisie-real alone anioOUlrd to brim) hundred a year. Thu way the testimony yin person above all 'written, of 'rise oiler oat ra:sed to the situation he now filled from his peculiar film as for it, on secoont of his being acceptable to the Emperor of Russia. Lord Calheart ha I expended of his , private fortune 'l',o'.ol. a year, turd 'hooch the Netherlands was hot she most expensive of she mission* fur an Arnhem dor, Lord Clanearty had spent in the first year 111,0001., and in the subservient years 13,0001. He had Wan the authority of Mr. Henry Wellesley for stating that fur the last five years of hi. resirleiree in Spain he spent of his private fortune 7, 0 001. The Hon. Member 'opposed that as the President of America had a salary equal only to the Arrilieseador, the hotter must have a very good thing of It. But America was an eeperialve mission, and Mr. Brew haul told him (Lord larridonderry) that it was with difficulty be made the sp. pointments meet the impetigo.. At Naples the Minister was not able to lodge himself for less than 11501. rt year Yet Gentlemen came doom to that House, ond, with republican iteicione talked of cutting flown the spoeintmenis of the Foreign Ministers, who could not do justice to the colicky if they were obliged so slink into corners of the city in which they were, and think of anthing hut saving a little musky. Wiok respect to the mottos before the House, he would only say, that if the Ministers should I have lord the confidence of Parliament so far that they could not be intrusted with the direction of this fund, but • Corn /alike must take into their hands the details of it, it was unnecessary fur him to say that he should feel degraded to the dust were he to contioue in his pretest situation; but he trusted the House would pursue a different course, and re pose confidence in the Ministers ow the roneloct of foreign affairs, for without confident, foreign affairs could not be conducted. He conjure., the Gentlemen opposite, for the ,• sake of the Coirstitui ion (as no doubt they could find strung 1 them a Secretary of Slate to whom they could intrust the fund in quest ion), not to rl.sfieure the Constitution by vesting it ins Committee. On these grounds he should give the me. firm his must derided negative.—(Hear, hear.) Sir J. MACKINTOSH said, that if the discussion had taken that course which he had expected, Rost the able and clear statement of his lion. Friend, hr *tumid nut have rises; but when they were charged with a design of making their country grovel in the dust, and lose that influence on the Continent which slue maintained only by her Ministers, he cause they proposed an inquiry into the expense of one branch of the public service, he could not refrain horn offer ing a few observation.. What ! the House of Commons, in stead of Metairie; into the public expenditure, was lo watch the ntehene 4f Maunder., and come to no vote which would so much displease than as to Unlace them to resign. They had introduced Into the debate that ultimo talk of the M Metter', the threat to resign, which bad become the subject of ridicule throughout the country. This threat had been whispered sometimes iu other placer, and about the doors of the House, hut now it was °peal, proclaimed as the in tention of the Ministers. What then was the House of Commasa come to, that House of Commons which had performed greater things formerly than arly other assembly of men ever did? They bad changed the religion of the country—deposed an ancient and illustrious Royal Family —seat dynasties into exile, and forced powerful Ministers to resign; but now, night after night, they were told by the Milliliters, " We defy you ; due nut vote against our opluton or we shall throw up our places :" so distinct sod unequivocal a declaration would been made if the Noble Lord had not been convicked that the greeter part of dose who usually voted with him now differed completely from him.—(Hear, hear, hear.)_ He would remind the House that the inevitable inference in the country would be (if they sow supported the Ministers), that the present House of Commons preferred the favour of fluke Ministers to giving a cosscieatioos vote. Was this then the impression with which he would seed the country Gentleman down to his constituents, and the language of the Minister, too, such as is former times would have hurled a Monarch from the throne. He, the Minister for Foreign Affairs—the pacificator of Europe—the associate of So vereigns, disdained to go is the leading-strings of a Committee of that House! The incoesieteury of the Noble Lord was conspicuous also, for whilst he con sidered it so abominable that a Committee should be ap pointed, he founded the whole of his armaments upon the Report of the Committee of 1816. The Noble Lord had gone en to laud the glories of the quintuple Alliance, which be (Sir James Mackintosh) supposed meant that which existed slow. He charged the Members of that side the House with being opposers of the Huly Alliance, forgetting that he hinurelf, in 1621, published the most reproachful paper strains' she whole of the principles of that Alliance. Bat what cupid be said of the Noble Lord's declaratioe of our great influence in Europe? It was clear that we had none, for we protested against the principles of the Holy Alliance as founded on injustice and rapine. When before was it ever known that a whole kingdom like Italy was converted into an Austrian province, not only without the intervention, butt with the evident disapprobation of Great Britain and France, the two greatest Powers by sea and lead of the civilised world. 'Thus the Noble Lord proved tour great influence, and be (Sir J. Mackintosh) would venture to say that if delicacy did not prevent bias torching on receut t loins, he could make oat a still stronger case of our entire want of influence in Eurupe. Was it out, be world ask, a subversion of all pretence to neutrality, whin Switzerland was requited by the Mini of the Holy Alliance so deliver up fugitives who had taken refuge la her territories! This barbarous right was assumed with regard to men the victims of pol;tieal differesee of opinion, whose defeat was their only crime. It was notorious that the Minister of that most Unholy Alliance had done so snail the Cantons, as retarded fugitives from Piedmont, a country under a Soveteige whom Mr. Burke styled the Tetrarch of Sardinia, as regarded she Austrian province of Naples, now under the nominal rule of a King who once swore to a constitution, but afterwards preferred being a Viceroy under Austria to being Sovereign of a free people. From all these States there were fugitive*, foe no offences but being so suet iuus as to endeavour to obtain some little liberty, some little p irtion of that knowledge now so widely diffused. These unfortunate gentlemen escaped; probably this Government of Switzerland remitted so much of former good feeling as to be ashamed of the part they were obliged to set, and connived st their escape. The Honourable Mem ber detailed a similar unquiet of recent date in the Canton of G ,iu which the Government had given the fugitives notice to escape. If Eugland was not a patty to these trans scions, glen the Noble Lord's declaration was a rash one, sod we really hare no influence, as the Alliance was doing these acts which we most shborrtd. When their table was eavered with Petitions from the people, complaining of int pearling rein and distress, this was the time which the Noble Lord had those to taunt Gentlemen on that aide the House with stole il sternness to the Ambassattuis. Indeed the whole question of theAmbessadors was introduced adeaptandrus,for it was not denied that Foreign Ambassadors were neccs. eery, and that the dignity of those missions were pa r t of their usefulness; hut those questions were sot then under coasiderat us. He could not but observe the arietueratieal contempt with which the Noble Lord had looked down on the extremes of Republica. Such sounds might lie pleasing so the ems of Sovereigns, bet it was rather singular lite grace to bold towards a House of Commons, which, with respect to the expenses of Ministers, ought to look with Re publican spirii.—(Hesr.)—He was not afraid to oppose his conic it utieual doctrine to that of the Nottl• Lord. If his doe. trine were not trite, then the House of Commons ought so have confidence iu the Minister —c onfidence, ho is t , was always the hordes of the Noble Lours song. n that great Republic, which was likely to spread liberty and happiness over a grouter portion of the deicers earth than Monarch ever cursed, the Noble lentil looked down with commit., sot that it was exercised to language, but the tunes sad ges• tures of the Noble Lord were sometime.' more intelligibk than his words. The Noble Lord said he would not desire to see a bidding for offices, but with submission to the Noble Lord's knowledge of political ecouomy, the giving great salaries might out be the most proper way to prevent it, mad usifortumiely it was well known that ap poinimenta abroad were repaid, gratefully rind I, by services at house --(Hear, bee .) Mr. F. ROBINSON said, lie could readily Iseli': what the lion. and L,arned Gentleman had said at she com mencement of his speech, that lie hail to intentio:, of ex pressing hi. centimetria, for he (Mr. Robinson) iinfesscJ that he could sot find say statement or argument that ap plied to the motion before the House. If any thing applied, it wet one simile pout to which he was opposed by she a... Geutlem , u who brought forward the motion. If he had not mistaken the non. and I.eargeil neolleman, lie approved of an ACibeiradoe to St. P,tersburgh i yet of that the Hum Member for Ipswich :coinplabsed. The Hon. and Leariod Genttemar's speech ;was as attack on the foreign policy of his Msierty' s Cloveroment, mid in voting for the Codirottre it was or the purpose of condemning his Majesty's Govern bent. Hie Noble Friend was therefore called ”,HI), and he (Mr. kobinenn) would repeat the statement.—(Hear, hear.) r—Was it, he would ask,. an amok to the Hoyle of Com mons to env, that if the Rouse did not approve, the Gofers trent would bow to its decisions? Woo h unconstitutional fur an Administration to Roy, that if the House of Commons shewed hg their voles a disinclination to give their eon& Bence any longer, that the Minister would not affect to copilot.* the Government without that ronfidence ? He would appeal to those who braid the epoch of his Noble Friend ;—he would appeal to the details of that speech—be would appeal to the impression which that siieech produced in the House—(Hear, hear, hear, from the Opposition)—if he could judge of the feelloga4.f those, who {posed hie Noble Friead's aver+, from the expressions of aotisfartion which it bad called forth from many of those who were nut particularly inclined to favour Minister', he was convinced that that (eel lag was, that it contained a most complete and eatiefactury coiner to the attack which had bren made upon Ministers, and that the raw which had been brought forward by the Honourable and Learned Geol.-elan had nu rifeience what. ever to the present question.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. CR EEVEY rising, amidst • general call for Mr. Tierney, said, he would slot trespass upon the patience of the House, iu its present anxiety to hear bis Right Hon.. Friend below him (Mr. Tierney), who was capable of giving. them so much more 'lamination and delight, by detaining them for more than three ur four *eidetic's. The motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Leopold) was merely (or information to enable the House to judge of the propristy of the •rammt of charge under this head of the civil list; and the Noble lord had declared do., he would aol attend the Coollllllllof, if a Committee should be appointed. That declaration was, in his opinion, • most extraordinary one to be made to that House by a Minister of the Crown. It was nut, hoc ever, quite new; it corresponded with the declaration of a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) on a former night, that whatever resolution the House might some to, he would ii , t advise the Crown to comply with the object of the motion then ruder consideration.—(Hear, bear.)—lt was consistent also with the assertion of the same Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) that the House of Comments was to be governed by corruption.—(Hear, hear.)—lf that sort of declaration was to overturn motions fur inquiry of this kind, dies it was of no use for them to continue sitting there—(Hear, sad laughter)—they could no longer exercise any power of coo. trot over the public expenditure; sod it would be necessary fur the House to make • new declaration of riglits.—(Hear.) —The Noble Lord said the appointment of • Committ-e would ben disfiguremeat of the Conatitut ma, an infringement on the constitutional power of the Crown. But he did cot stew Committees of his own appointmeut as • disfigoirement of the monarchy; and this very emahlishmentof the Civil List, as well as the Superannuation Bill, by which the rate of pea. sions to be granted by the Crown for public services was fix. ed, bud both striven out of Committees appointed by this Noble Lord. The Right Hon. Geotlemas who spoke last said that no case was made out to call for inquiry. But was it no point for inquiry that such apporntmems as those that were enumerated in the return on the table, should be made ? Was it so point that we should be paying such large allow •nces to Ambassadors •t foreign Courts? Was it no point that in may instances the persons holding those appoint ment's were resident in this country ? Was it so point that Lord Stewart, who held the appointment with a very high sa lary, of Ambassador at Vienna, should be living in London, and that Mr. Gordon, as Charge de Affutres, should be doing the business at Vienna ? Was it no point that such coma. gent expenditure was going on in the midst of the greatest call for economy throughout this country, and while famine and dial were raging in Ireland , —(Hear, hear, sad mur. mars from the ministerial leenehen.)--Ile (Mr. Creevey) did contend that these were grounds for inquiry of the strongest and most urgent nature, and that to allow mottoes for in quiry under such circumstances to be overturned by ouch de clarations as had been heard from the Noble Lord nod the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, wasto render it wholly tw ine for them to sit there, unless. new declaration of rights were made, and the power of the House to investigate and control every branch of the public expenditure were reso lutely asserted. The call for Mr.TIERNEY having been renewed, that Right Hon. Gentleman rose, sod said the House would give him credit for sincerity when he assured them list he bad no wish to trespass on their attention. Rut, after As very sprat manner in which he had been called upon, lie felt it ineumbrM on him not to give a silent vole upoo this question. When it was considered that the table of the House was laden with petitions from all parts of the country, slitting the ex. teem, diiitrres under which it was labouring, and eomplatuinl of the extent of tlw yublic expenditure, it did appear most onarcouutable, that a motiou that was in itself as temperate and moderate as could possibly be, haying no other object than to see bow much can be saved from • certain branch of the public expenditure, In ordi r to alleviate the burdens of the country, should be met by that sort of tactic which had been applied to it by the Noble Losd—(Hear, hear, bear ) —The truth, however, was, that Ministers frit so rose from the repeated masks of want of confidence which they had lately received from the Hemet of Commons, 'het they had determined to make a stand upon this question.—(Hear, hear.)—A meeting Ind been held Mr that purpose, at which it was deciliter' that now or never was the time for those who were inclined to support the Ministers to stand by them.—(Hear, hear.)—lt was undoubtedly c most constitutional doctrine to tell the country gentlemen, " If you vole for this motion, you will be marked by us as having voted against the present Minisit r• " Itut let bins tell the country gentlemen, that they would have • strict account of their voles on this question to give to their coustitornie— and they would Slid that it would be no satisfaction to tell them that they voted against the motion to prevent the re signation of Mini aaaaa .—(Hear, hear, and Isughter.)The present establishment of the civil list was founded On the Report of the Committee of I/115, by whom it ass adopted on an estimate laid before theta by the Secretary to the Trea sure, into which they were not permitted to inquire, end Ibe correctness and expediency of which rested solely ma the assertion of time Noble Lord, hacked by the signature of Arbuthnot. It had been intimated to the Huuae in the course of the present Session, that Isis Majesty had cow settled to give up thirty thousand pounds out of the civil He (Mr. T.) was extremely thankful for the cornm•nication in whatever form it was made; though lie regretted that it had not been in the form of n message, that he might have had an opportunity of moving a vote of Mao ha in return.-- The Noble Lord bad &mild them, with regret, that the cur. tailment of the Civil List by that sum, would render it se. cessary to abridge the personal comforts of his Majeety.— But he could give the Noble Lord some comfi,rt no that head, by assisting him in return that he might be convinced there was not • word of truth in such • statement. — (Hear, and laughter.)—The allowance for the fusee's branch of the Civil List, which was to provide for the paymetit of tradesmen's bills, was 200.0001, and that allowance was made 011 the estimate of ISIS. Now, be would ask any man who heard him, whether saltine that period he had not experienced a saving of at least 15 per cent. upon their tiadeamett's hulls of every kind, sod, upon many of them, of from 20 to 23 per cent.?—(Hear, hear.) — The giving top of the runt that had been mentioned, therefore, would not abridge the comforts or enjoyments of his Ma jesty in the least, but would leave the m as before. if it did not still leave a surplus. Put in order to avoid what t lie Noble Lord hail called 4 disgusting elteulittreg" it had heel' thought inexpedient to examine i n to the particulars of that branch of the Civil List; what they had lett to do, therefore, was to try ' , hat savings could be made in $d rises, which was opts. The Noble Lord said that they could not appoint sCom nutter to inquire into this subject without eneroaching on the privileges of the Crown; but so tar was that foot Whig the case, that the present form and establishment of the civil lust grew out of a Committee of that House.—(llrar.) —That some conaiderable savior mughl be made nut of this branch of the eatabliahment, there was strong prints feria reason for supposing, from the circumstance of the summit of the charge under this head Immo( increased 100,0001. since 1702, and that it might be done without danger, f not with great ad, :solace, apip•areil front the Noble Lord's teen conduct. Time Committee in 1815, formed, or rather adopted oh the recontneudation of the Noh:e Lord, ea eolimair art the tiecesskty expense of this class ; and in IsIG, the Nohte Lord himself came down to the Homer and moved for • sum lege than that estimate by 28,000 f. Now if that dmimition had been recommended by soother Conionittee. would the monarchy hate been Orertornrdby it'—(Hear, aid langhter.)—lf a Committee were now appoisted, tt was pot , • sihle that it might filed it perfectly safe to reconianewil a still father reduction ; there might be some few hems that 'mild appear to the Committee susceptible of nbritignseul. The Right H..n. Gentleman opposite (Hr. C. W. Wien') emileal ; butt lie (Mr. T ) had nut the smallest &into that if the Sc lot Embassy were to go heron. • Committer—(hear, and laughter)—it would be impossible, pick and select that Committee as they might from the niewilons of that House, that it should report that lice allowances situ appoint• menu sin that Embassy were us a proper Neste, and ought to be contissed. The Noble Lord said there had always been • Minister Plenipotentiary there since the pence, which he (Mr. Tierney) admitted; and that Russia bad employed Cogent Cap &Istria ow a similar mission, while Prince Talleyrand, ea Minister of France, lent his owe no. phew to the same place. All that might be very tree ; lint if the nephew of Prince Taliryrand were paid at she rains rate as the relative of She Right Honourable Detok , man opposite (Mr. Wynn), all he (Mi. Tietioty) could SAW was, that it was as extiavagent a job me the part ant. French Minister as our own.--(Hear, hear, sod laughter.) —lie was as much avenge as any male could be to the system of underpaying pub;ic servants, and had always maintained that no more should be employed them weve ureemary, lent ?bat those who were employed should be paid liberally. But then it was a proper subject of inquiry, what was liberal payment, and he did nut doubt that evidence might be bad short of the Noble Lord, whom he should by nu means wish to examine—(Laueliter)--afier his decided re (neat to give any explanation on the gtound of the solemn sanction of his official oath sot to divulge the secrets of State, ahich lie (Mr. T) could out to be so leer parably essuriated with the allowances and appointments of our Ambassadors as that the latter could out be disclonell without violating the former ; but be did think that evesi' tinder so great • misfortune to the country or the retirement of the Noble Lord from office--(Langhterl —which be by sin mamas wished--(Much laughter).— evidence might be had from indivielaals in his office, clot were not under the sanction of an oath, to slew that more persons than neeessery were. employed, • nall that those em ptied were too highly paid. Ile did not tleiok that each allowances at all added to the kit f this enuatry abroad. Hoe, fur instance, could the eutortaiumernt by lie Charles Stuart in Paris of every Englishman who chose to pay two guineas at the Foreign Office fur a letter of intro duction to h m, its order to get a dinner out of hits— (Leueliter)—how could thief at •11 increase the " moral coo eideration " as the Noble Lord called it, of this country In France? The character and isfluence ore countrywide foreign nations, was out to be kept np by eating and drinking abroad, hut by the respect in which the Adenioistration was held at home.—(Hear, hear.)—lf really and soberly they believed that sosseuving might be made, and he had no doubt that a great saving might be made, thee it ought to be done. The whole system of our foreign diplomacy ought to be new-mo delled its order to attain that object, and be had no doubt that the other Powers would be gird of the opportunity of following the example; for if our fiteances were in • bad state, theirs could not be in a much more flourishing condition. Did the Noble Lord think that soy mass in England would believe that Ws language on the p it motion meant any thing more than the language of • man in glass m for his place'—(Hear, hear.)—The Nibble Lord says, " I don't cue fur your motion In-morrow." Perhaps he did not; but lie certainly did four days ago; else why had the meeting been held for the porpoise of ascertaining what support he might expect? He (Mr. Tierney) did riot believe it likely that the Noble Lord would go out —(Hear. hear )-11e did not think the Earl of Liverpool would resiga. He should like to see such an event—(Laughter) -there would be something so irre aistib!y comic in the Chancellor's face after such • resigna tion. tint there was no fear of that happening at present. He would however tell the country gentlemen whet might hap pen—they might be turned out of their counties—(Cheer, and much laughter)—for, if they voted against this motion on the grounds of the Noble Lord, it was morally impossible that they should not be turned out. He hoped, therefore, to be in a majority again on this occasion. as he had on the eases of the Lords of the Admiralty, mid the Postmastei- Gene's'. By the by, lie could not help thinking the con duct of Ministers ponieularly hard upon Lord Salisbury, very respectable old Nobleman, who had mewed the remarry many years, end would hare been happy and nil log to it to the end of hie life—(Much laughter.)—Yrs be was toned out without moth hesitation. They b e d e e k 1 ,„ remorse in stripping btm quite soaked, and eendisig him Wok to his native woods again —(Laughter)—bat nobody would bear him company; so one went out with and laughter.)—But touch We Swiss Embassy, and there was IN bearing it.—(Laughter.)—" If Mr. Henry Wyno goes out," said • large petty of Ministers, "we go out to e."--f Much laughter.)—lie repeated, slat he thought es bigotry would skew that great savings, not less perhaps than 150,0011 f. might be made • but he would not retiree the n oose by going into dry details. He had stated milficiently his rea sons for the vote which he should give, aunt lie "mold out trontiNe them further.—(laud and coutinued eheeriag) Mr. C. W. WYNN expressed hie surprise that Gentlemen on the other side of the House, with all their coattail otienial knowledge and experience, should lave declared it to be eneowstilmional fur the Ministers of the Crow. to declare, that if the House of Commons withdrew its confidence from them, they would resign. Acid he contended that the appointment of a Committee would be an entire removal of confidence fiats Ministers, and mo an undue interfer ence with the power and privileges of the Crown, and that the inquiry could not he gone into without meddling with secrets of stale, which it was most important sot to divulge. Mr. ANTROBUt said • few words, which Die noise of the House rendered wholly issaudtble in the gallery. Mr. LENNARD replied.—He had heard twilling iribieb had not confirmed him in the opinion of the necessity of in quiry. He would not say • word at that time un the isib• jest of the Swiss Embassy, hut wait until tesvorrow (this day) when it was to be justified by the Noble lard, out exiraordtnary ground of " mural etturideration." The Horne thee divided, the uumbers being— Ayes Non Majorily is favour of Mimisters ...... 117 ROMAN CATHOLIC PEERS. On our return to she gallery, we furred that the Report of the Roman Catholic Petri. Rill had berm brought up. It was speed to, twirl the Bill urdertd to be read • third rime iho Friday next (to morrow). The other orders of the day were thew severally &voted of, mad lb. Howse odjorroed at ONE O'CLOCK. ill NORITY ............ . Of aisi v Address to his l'ilaje.ty, to direct Inquiry into the 5:.1.. . the Government of the lonian islands, and the 010.. i..i.. Martial Law having been proclaimed, laud the Inliabitai.is of these Islands disarmed —May U. Althorn, Lord Herrin, Sir It. Price. R. Allen, I. A. Ways/nod, W. P. Ricardo, D. Ammo, Hun. G. Hamilton, li.rd A. I{ iin11.6141, C. E. 81,,ke, Sir F. Hatihniauu, Hii.C. Iticktird, %V. liiiiierwortli, J. Hmal, R. Itiowill, Lor I J. Burdett, Sir F. Hubliww.J.C. Robots, Cul. Brougham, H. Leonhard. T. 11. Robinson, Sir G. Bernal, R. Lemon, Sir W. Smith, R. Baring, Sir T Lloyd, Sir E. •Scarleit, J. Bough. y, Sir .1. F. laislitugiosi, De. Smith, Hou. R. Bury, Lord Milbank, M. SAre, I). Coneamoin, I Moberly, .1. Smith, W. CIMMIOOO, Sam. Martin, J. Wuod, Aldr•rnaaa DeCrespiany,Sir W. Mooch, J. B. %Villiarms, W. Dnvirs, Cul. Maxwell, .1. Williams, J. EVIMII, W. Macdonald, J. Williams, o.jun. F.lrringion, Lord Newman, R. W. Wilson,hir R. Ferriimu, Sir It. Normanby, Lord Whitbread, S. C. Fitzgeratil,LmJ W. O'Callaghan, .1. Williams. Sir R. Goto.y, H. (+resume, Lord F. Girl oil, It H. l'iorrirti, tlisii. W. TFLIZIRII. Grat:Nti, J. Prilmei, C. F. Rennet', Hun. R. G. Golden, R. Power, It. !fume, J. • • Gieufvll, P. -. . Phillips, George r :~