The Sun. — London, England, 1802-06-15 00:00:00

t is 4^-2 ! is :~;~, ' l .ed tr.- duty to deliver them up to the County. rm tier which the Militia of Ireland had been to serve, was four years, as appeared by At (which he then read), and till this period rii - ) . • as expired, these men could not be freed from ,their 'These observations, he said, ju— <fi, 0 him in moving, "'That an humble Ad. dress be presented to Iris Majesty, humbly re_ questing that His IVlajesty would be pleased to order that there he laid betore the House a Copy 'of the Orders issued from the Adjutant-General of Ire. land's Office on the igth of May last, and also a Copy of the Circular Letter of the sth of May, alluded to in those orders." Mr. LEIGH expressed his surprize at the re. fiedions which had been thrown out on the subject of the present Motion. In his opinion, the Order moved for was one of the best and wisest that had ever been issued. It was to be recollected, that the English and Irish Militia were raised upon. at very different plan. In England, they were raised by ballot, whereas in Ireland the Militia were en. listed in the same manner as the Troops of the Line in England. In the Act of 1 797 there was an ex. press clause to authorize the issuing of money for enlisting the Irish Militia. The term of their services, therefore, must depend entirely upon the. engagements into which they entered upon being enlisted. These had been .of two kinds ; as the first oath administered to those enlisted in the Irish Militia, required their services for four years ; in the room of which had been after wards substituted the condition of serving`for four years, or till the end of the war. A great propor tion had been inlisted under the last oath ; and all ivho bad been so, believed that the conclusion of the war, and the term of their services was to be the same. Though this idea was not jestified 'by the oath, yet respectwas to be had even to the mistaken opinions of those who enlisted, under circumstances in which they' were so apt to be misled. It was well known what practices were resorted to by Re. Bruiting Parties, and that almost every man was colisted in a state of intoxication, and without knowing what he was' about. The general pressicm which was held by the Militia, was, that as *they were enlisted in the same manner as the Regulars, they were also subjected to the same conditions, and were like them entitled, to be discharged on the conclusion of the War.— When, therefore, the Executive Government were both Party and Judge, it certainly was most expe. dienf for it to decide in favour of the Militia, who formed the other Party. It was no wonder if those enrolled under them did not comprehend the Militia laws ; they were the most confused mass ever seen, and were perplexed to such a degree that it was in contemplation next Session to do them away completely, and substitute a new Law in their room. From these circumstances it did not appear that any better measure than that adopted cou'CA have been pursqed, as the Militia ,who had taken the second oath would,not otherwise suppose that strict justice had been done them. Mr. WIC /rifilki said, that he by no means intended to make any opposition to the present Motion ; he only rose to state that the information required on the.subjeCt had this day been received, and that to-morrow he should be direned to las' officially before the House the Papers which had been moved for. On this account he shOuld enter into no discussion on theroat present. He should only observe, that the Orders complained of had not been issued without mature deliberation, and with: out consulting the highest Authorities with regard to those matters in that country.. He would there. fore conclude with submitting to the Right Hon. Mover, if it would not be as desirable that the Papers should be produced in the manner he iotend ed to bring them forward to-morrow. Mr. DAWSON ob3erved, that he could find no way of reconciling the orders which had been issued with the rights . of the Counties who supplied the Militia, It was evident that the place of those who enlisted in the Regulars, must be supplied ; be, therefore, called upon Ministers to chew, how Substitutes were to be provided for those discharged in consequence of the, present Orders, without throwing the burthen on his Constituents. Mr. LEIGH in., explanation said, it was ex pressly provided. by the Militia Ads, that where the Counties gave money, instead of providing men, they were thenceforth exonerated froth any further charge under the same Aft. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it Was no wonder much "confitsion had arisen in, Ireland with regard to the Militia, an institu. tint . , so recent in that Country. It was only in troduced ,in 1793, and the At then passed had been framed With so little skill, that it' had been found necessary to pass successively no less than seveo other MIS, amend and explain it. These various . Atss . provided a variety of items, from which the Militia was to be made up, and different 'oaths to betaken by the different descriptions of persons tube enlisted. It would appear thatClov ern. went had taken the very best measures. to obviate the confusion arising from these 'complicated APIs, in complying with the impression' universally en tertained by those serving in the Militia, that they were. legally entitled t 6 their discharge on the eon. cluSion at the War. .A different condua would have appeared. like. : taking an undue advantage c if o. w) , 4 1 -,d of pranising a chicane- unworthy of Oivernment. The, present MotiOn . was, in 1 1 4 opinion, unnecessary, as.the Papers called for WVfie to be 'laid lief Ore the House tomorrow by a Mes sager from• His Majesty ; at the spine time, he uo derstnod, •that his Hon. Frita intended to make two MOtions—the one to explain the Militia Acts, and the - other to indemnify the Coilnties for those discharged by the („) . rders in qUestion.' Gel/041G ASCOrAt adverta to what had been tsaid ri fife aing the s idlers bet tg dYLIIik at the time of their being enli4(6l. 'lbis he said could not be the cast, ai it, was expressly provided by the Law that no soidiet could be attested in a state of toxication, Mr. LElGH:said, he by no means denied its illeg:;lity, he only stated a WI% Cohn:////1611/ELL stated, that in the Regiment which he had the honour to command, a l most every than had been enlisted to serve during the War a n d two months after ; indeed the difficulty of recruit. ,rifie those employed in that service willing to enlist men almost on any conditions they would, assent to. The orders given by Government on disbanding the Militia had been 'extremely distina ; it was commanded to discharge those . entitled; to their discharge, and to dismiss the zest. Now that this had taken place it would he: impossible , to call the Orders issued, without occasioning the utmost, discontent. Mr. FOSTER said, he.was sorry from what had been stated, to find that the orders issued by' Go vernment were not properly complied with by the Governors and Deputy-Governors:of Counties. For his own part, he knew and could affirm, that in Ltswth, the County which he represented, and in other Counties also, the Militia Mein, had been en. listed under the second oath, and who had distinaly been engaged to serve for four years, or till the conclusion of the War. For his Own, part, he dis claimed being aduated , by any captious or Party motive in the present affair ; he only did what he conceived his duty requirea of,him ; he had everi the approbation of the Right Hon. Gentleman be.. low him to the 'present Motion, and therefore'he had not expe&ed any opposition. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEQUER said, he did not intend to oppose the Motion ;' he only meant to suggest that the method in which it was intended to produce the Papers tomorrow, vas cer tainly more proper and desirable ; and as he con. ceived that it was but conformable to propriety to allow His Majesty an opportunity : of granting in formation in the usual way, if the Present:Motion was persisted: In, 'he should feel himself bound to oppose it by the previous question ; at the same time reminding the House that the Papers called or, should certainly be laid before them tomorrow, r,hQugh in a different form. My, FOSTER said, it was the Papers he desired to have.; as to die form of presenting thenthe was indifferent, he had therefOre no objection to with. draw his Motion,which he did accordingly. Mr. WictotArd gave notice, that to-mo — riow he should move 4 weasute to explain the several Mi litia Aets of Leland, and also to indemnify the Counties forlsuelv.pf their Militia.as had been dis charged by the order.of GoVernment. The SREAKElt'gave notice, that as there now reinained very little private business before the House, be should, •for the future, take the Chair for the dispatch of poblic business exactly at three, if the attendance of Gentlemen at that hour should allow him to do so: COrsIMITTEE OF SUPPLY., The CHANCELLOR of the EXCI-4VJER rose to move the Resolutions relative'lo 'tia..Army arid Navy Estimates, which had been referred to the Committee. On his Motion following Votes were agreed to : The Ordinaries of the Navy ; - ,C 6 . 57,216 The Extraorainaries of the Navy ' 360,233 Transport Service .out Prisoners of War - .608;53o Sick risoners of War - • ' tz,ooo The CHANCELLOR 'of the Exc FIE4U RR 'then row to move the other Supplies for the'year On the first article, which l 4 as the ;minim of the valuation of the. Dutch ships captured by Admital NlitchLX:i squadron, he observed, that the sumlle Was to move fur, was simply to enable His MAiesTy to. make good that. equivalent which Ills Mlj EST k had graciously, promised to the Sailors of that Squadron, in lieu of their claims on the putch ships of war which had surrendered. Other claim's had since been started from another quilt to by the Prince of Orange: it was not, however, his intention to say any thing on these claim's at present ; he Only stated this circum. stance, that in case the subject were aga in brought be.: lure the House, it might not ,appear to them that he had deceived them by any concealMent: The present vote merely related to, the engagements made With_ the Seamen of Admiral Mitchell's'Squadron. With regard to the Extraurdinaries of the Army, be felt a ,d egree of regret in moving them, not only on ac, count of the magnitude of the sum, but also because the nature of the service on various stations abroad prevented him from being able to pledge hiniself to the House that this would be all the demand on them for this article. With regard to another arii. cle, he felt very different sensations in ,bringing: it forward ; it was a provision for increasing the cons. forts of those meritorious servants of their country, the Officers of the British Navy. It was intended to increase the half-pay of an Admiral to 31. per day, and the other inferior Officers in proportion. — Such as had not been provided for by former Ads, were to be included in the present arrangement, which was also to embrace the. Warrant Officers. He then moved the following Resolutions, which were put and agreed to : ' • , Valuation of Dutch Ships . - Z. 199,212 Foreign anti. Secret' Service - - 90,044 Increase of Pay to Naval Officers - _ 30,000 Police Offices ,- - Trial of George Stratton, Eig. - . 1184 Expellees of Commissions for carrying into Exc- ~ ctinon the 6th anti 7th Article of the Treaty with America - - - 11 ,94 5 Republishing the Journals of the 'louse of Commons 4 06 5 Keeping the Journals oftlitto during the present Selsiuti 12, , 00 Expences of colleellng the Population ut this Country. 612 Repairing the House of Commons ~ . . .. 19,99 1 New Office for the Dutchy of Cornwall . . 698 .- - - State Priitiners ' Anti)! Extrkordinaries . 333 - 1,000,3G0 • Mr. C9l? RY said, that it had been usual in Ire.. land to pass a Vote of Credit every year, in order to provide a fund for contingent expences, as the Civil List was too small to afford a fund, from which any oceasional asLdstance could be drawl). — Had there been a Vote cif Credit for Eng,land this year, he should not have moved a separate one for Ireland ; but as that fortunately was not necessary, he should now move,for a sum to serve the same) purpose, and this he should design by' the name - of Army Extraordinaries ; though'he wished it to be understood, thih it was entirely, designed for civil purposes, as the funds provided for the Army would this year be sufficient.. He then moved that the sum of so,oool. be allowed fur the Army Ettraor• dinaries of Ireland. Mr.TIERNEY objeeted to ,the way ip which the sum was raised, as the.funds for the same ser. vices were in p..ngland supplied from .the Civil List, and this consequently looked like an addition. to the Civil List of Ireland. Mr. CORRY that these services had no coonectiOn whatever with the List. The Ent;lish Civil List was able to afford' an occasional Fund for contingencies, which the Irish Civd List was not. If the Hon. Gentleman, however, could point out a better mode of acquiring a Fund tor oc casional expences,le . should willingly and grittefully adopt it. Mr.TIERNEY said, that if it was his fortune to_git another sesiion in Parliament, he. sliouid :;er tairtly propose some measure to this effl:t. Mr. CORRY'S Motion was then agreed to ) and the Repot./ of the Committee ordered to be re ceived to-morrow. The CHANCELLOR 0) the EXCHEQUER said, he wished to recapitulate the various Heads of Supply and Ways and Means, to which the Hopie, had agreed during the present Session of Parliament. Yt would .not be the wi,h of . the Committee that he should state the account of the Heads of each par.. tictilar Service, but of the sums voted, and the pro. visions made of Ways and Means for raising the Supplies, and also to state thealteration,which was likely to take place between the state of Peace and a state of War in this particular, and alio to assign reasons why it had been fbund necessary to con. trael for so large a Loan. He should - go into some particulars which never had been yet stated, and take a short view of the expellee which had been incurred beyond•the. Estimate in the course of the last, year-L-He'then proceeded to make the follow. ing statement : SUPPLI ES. Supplies iSer. 15,857,037 Navy, including Ordnance Sca Scr y iee (36 -, 7,00) 033,573 Ditto towardi dihrharg.Pebt 2,coct,u-00 . . . . ---- 1 3,g33,573 9,617,639 ? t 2 117 °, r Eng I a n d 6,764,621 2,500,000 .- . ' 14 9 Ditto E' x traord. 1,600,000 I Ditto . Ditto, for , Army 1 , 180 1 .- nut pro- • ' . I vided .for - i,84~,174 • 1 10,2 1 1,795 3,935,017 . . (.. I rcland ; . - 2 , 6 4 0 , 1 73 z ind , a. evlia- ot Ordnance 1' 2 6 9 3 9 9, 9 ° 0 5' 1 ° rdn'ance En 5, Sgi: Ser . vi:e) . .-• , 1,'92,27 ( fraland • - . - . 2 ' , 3,. 76 637,876 „.. , 1 , , nglitinl '- • - , - 921,861 2 i'2,39t '"- , " Le,l "" e " s Ireland . - - -, 2 73, 11 9 Corn ilountzes - ' 1,62t , „000 P"--- I risti ernvinent G rants .3 6 3,33 E T 9 be contributed jointly by England and Ireland 31,259,z09 ENG I-AND SEPARATE CHARGES. Deficiency Malt Duty, 1800 - 4 2 91774 I merest. on E xtheiltier hills,: Discount on • Loail . IEOI &C. ' • - I, t 37,073, Civil LiSt I)4t • - 990,0 . 53 TO pay off Exchequer BillS in possession , Rank • - 3, 0 00,000 'Deficiency of Goods and Shipping - 4 10 , 00 0. For Reduction of the National Debt 20-0,000. To pay off Exent.q. hill:: on Aids, tsoo t,0 66 ,493 To ni;,ke good 3, t;:.,:.,,00cif. Surplus con solidated tranted for "Sot 2,676,cE0 117thS Of . tile ;lbOVe Slllll Of 31,259,2091. are to-be contributed by Ireland 3,677,554 Add tbr Ireland 17ths of r, 1 74,40 11 . for Civil List And c.therC harp,es an the Coniol Mated und, • not relating to the • P.ublie Debt J3S, )64 3, 31 5,7 18 9,9 0 9 , 473 Total Supplies 41,168,02 . lOn account of Ire. I land 3, 81 54 1 g On accotmt of Eng- • land 37,352,04 Surplus Ways and Alcans, kailand i6tost6 37,5 1 4,7 6 0 WAYS AND MEANS, Duty on Pensions, Oltices, Perswal Estates, ite. Duty en Malt ' - . Lottery _ Surplus - Subscription on .Exchequer Funded 1 3 141-r4 Surplus Grants, taxi - t 14,0e0 Surplus C rauts for Portugal 98,886 Surplus Conia , idated Fuu,i - 4 , So°t° Qo Exchequer Ed oil Aids, 18:3 s ' 9 "' CC° 6o° Ditto for hank ditto 1,500,000 's ' car:, Loaa , 23 ;:too,oc o , 374. 1 4 , 7 6 °, To UC provided for by rebina 3,815 - .7 is • 41,33m7S Having gone through this Statement, he said he could not forbear saying, that from every, thing he had hid occasion to observe as to the probable -effi ciency of the thXes for tBo2,they would not fall short in their.coMparativ,e estimate, but would, he as produdive as those of. z 799. —He knew; that dif ference Of opinion wits - entertained on the effeft which Peace would have on the Trade, ,and conse quently on .the Finances of this Country.—On this iiibjeft, upon, the best consideration he Was. able to give h, his 'own persuasion was; (unless causes, arose whichle, could not Thresee), that the present year would be as produetive, and 'answer its Ekt-i -mate as well as the most Wonted year, as much as the year 1799. The Committee Would see, that be had made allowance for diminution, and tbr what might appear now, and , which did not appear in 1799.; and although fie did . not think that such' causes would operate, yet a provision was made for the operation of such causes.--He had to ObSell ; e, that this Statement must be gra_ tilying to the .Committee ; it must give 'every Member of it great • pleasure, in seeing the finances of this Country in this situation, after a War in which we had been S 3 long engaged, and in whieh so Much had been' expended to see that we had been able, after 'all, to Make the Contra c t for a Loan, on terms so advimtageous as that of the last Loan Was agreed ,upon :--that we should have been able to provide for such an Expenditure as we had defrayed ; and still "to have such a Revenue, as it plainly appeared we had, and that not diminishing at all, , but, on the contrary, likely to increase.; be sides which', to see also, 'in every part of the king, dom,• indications of increasing wealth and prosperi ty. Such a'sit-altion must inspire a feeling that was highly gratifying to, us Alf, and he was confident they were entertained by usfill. tk had now only to move, the Resolutions which he had to submit to the. Committee, founded on thestatement v. - hich he had already inade, atiA which he trusted, w ould be satisfadory to the Committee. He then moved, that towards raising the Sup. ply granted to His Majesty, the further sum of g i ooo,oool. he raised on Exchequer Bilis, to he charged on the first Aids to he .granted' in the next Session of Parliament, which was put and carried. HeLthen moved, the sum of t being the Surplus of Grants fir the year riot, Sm.—which was also put and carried. FINIANcgs o IRELAND. Mr. CORRY then rose and said, he should briegy state to the Committee the details respetling the Finances of Ireland, which he should bd very happy to explain to any Gentlem.in who wi4hed for explanation. There were, in the first place, some small sums which must be placed to the account of, the services,of last year, but which' were to bespro vided for in this.'. There was for the erst instal ment of the Compensationst3 , 27,27o.; Treasury Bills 25,7001. ; Loyalists Fund 49;i671. ; Lottery ::e t Prizes 2,19 zl.; Prim* two thousand pounds ; amotroting altogether to 406,4341. He should now s , hich appertained to the service of ptss,cl t refi ; in trt place, those which he longed he solely cltar es to Ireland ; and in the next, those which were borne hys' Ireland jointly with Great Reilsdn. Of the charges defrayed solely by Ire land,' the first was the interest and charges of th 6 National Debt, and of the Sinking Fund, amount= ing..in the whole to 1,880,205, Irish money. The calculations were all made in Irish motley, and he should therefore, for greater convenience, make 110 of that medium in stating the details: - The next article.was two Instalments of the Compensations; amounting to 555,2001. next stun was foi Inland Navigation, under an Mt of the Irish Par liament, amounting to 150,0001. The next stun was on account of the Irish Lottery : it had been usual to pay the prizes of each Irish Lottery in the succeeding year, and there remained due for prizes in the Lottery of 1801, the sum of 300,0001. The next two items were sums of 200,0901. each for Treasury Bills. He st. red them here, because they were covered by the Ways and. Means, and w ere intended to be funded, but the Debt would not be increased, as ,it would be only changing an unfunded Debt for a s fu en nd t e c i t i ta l r );b a t, w s i v t l l i l i , lst the interest they were at pre whole amount of amounted to 3,298,5551. 'The joint charge wane th s e vou se ld pa ' r n a o t t e ls c e ha i t n g c e r s ea s o e f di r,c ; l o . l l l l , e l by Leland, together with Great Britain, consisted of P m u i b i l i i t e ar ß y i s ra c i ri ls 6 s ce 3 : l 2 o ,B o 6 l. o t . Pensions 112,6671 s the Civil. List I +5,0001. —Per manent Grants 136,0001.--Miscellaneous 144851' —To make good Contrib l u B tio i n .— s Public Offices s 24.3ol.—Civil Contingencies 540 9 Hospitals, itc. f1e,396 1 ; 4 T 140). W;IS be c ! bserrecl, that the Military Exeences belong ing to Ireland alone were considerably 30Z,nance 219,999 1. nished, but as the Military EstablishMent othcr t p o rs► c s7 o r t t r i j o b n v,telreland, a larger parts of the United'Empire' was not diminished irs e ri:ucol liable a acs h il e s r c p o t i ) l o t( s il e :an q yr u t e i l foo Se rh e it: s e the Military Expencei of the whole United Empire, than she would have been s Military Establishment ; thus arose the increased sum to make good Contributions. The w hole j oint Contributions of Ireland amounted to 4, 12 9 , p 00 ' and the whole charge of ,Ireland amounted to 7,4284251, Trish Money. lt now remai ned -for him to state the _Ways and Means---them' were Balances in the-Exchequer, 394,6651.-I'arr.of the English Loan for tilt Service oGreland, 3,166; 666i ! -' Trish, Loan, ,6 2 5,0001. —Lot tery , 506,0001. The Lottery had this year been a joint c oncero tween the two Countries, and of th e 500,0601. whic" was to be remitted on the part at this Couetrys,. 300,0001. would serve to pay the- ;unc.lunt or the, prizes of last year. The next itM's sum 0 400 , 0 001. which was to hav e been remitra on the part of Great Britain, blur which had been reduced by various causes to 300,0001. The orSt . amounted to 7,592,0001. from which, dedoding the, s i u r ns eia c t s i i: i ss . 3,ololole,oomorhla. leariosti.ngthferot‘n,ityli,se RaenvdeniNiuicesolc:st Charges, a surplus of Ways and :Means' was left h e 163,65.71, He Was sorr y to detain but he wished parti cularl y to state h %, .h o, ~ credit for the produce of . 3,000, 000 h from too te Ctn i r l i t ii . i i i - o cc u e k : revenues which last yeer.only produced 2,400,0 00 lii speaking of the Revenues of Ireland-- the Com;: mittee would recoiled that he was speaking Country which had been recently violently agititta i with all the horrors of a Rebellion, and visited 1 sr a scarcity atmost appioaching t o a f e mine• It milia and 'necessarily be imagined' that th ese causes 1r operate materially to Area that Coun tr y , could not be 'considered as surprising t h a t its 1 : e venues were diminished, particularly those arisl howl Malt and the :Distilleries, He wished to c,; 11 . ' their attention to five materiel Articles of t he 10 5 :1 Revenue : 'The first Was the Importatin of foreic spirits. By the suspension of the Distilleries 1_ Ireland, the importation.Of foreign spirits had bee; considerably increased,' and' those d u ties. which the average; of five years to the. 25th Of i'vlai c .r 1.790, amounted ta r4o,ocroh's produced in the y'`' + C 1801 1 555,0001. In order to .see how the arno111; of these dutiesstood in the present` year, he called for an account of their produce for te'vbo 0 months to the 21 of May, which lie' found ; 0 192,0001..1-le:slid-oot wish to appear too sane :1. in his 'calculations, and he would therefore tak e produced these duties at 312,0001. The next art- s l a c was Sugar, the average produce of the duty Sugar for the last five years was 226,000 1 . t he P .- t ; duce of the last year 292,0001. from o wh i c h sy ss be decluded.the stun of too,oool, fbr idrawhstegoi leaving a surpins of 192,0001. The produce ie this Duty during the last five months was 162.° 9 0 He would take the estimated produce ther efore e, , 252,0001. :With raped to the third article, "To ly, Wines, the Duty on it produced in the r o t years preceding 1793, the sum of 278,0001' psi year the produce was 203,0001. and for the five months 137,0001. ; he would therefore roc, the estimated produce at:201,70 IL. Th e _ se l" l,.. Duty for the present year he calculated at 37.0rvv: s t ‘ l V re t a h v r e e r s ag Pe : t c6 t n o surn th i e )ti asp lons, producing a Duty of 806,csoo41?18S'ec)::farrbeeT 'gulations had been made in the year 1 81 : 144 - nr fe, one of which the Distilleries were 'ru' m~bwht six months instead of four, . which ir be estimated would increase the . It , ' ve d co , to 1905,0001. but *various causes contrsouteont consumption had the Distillelleir lower this to : 824,0901. and as these re/1 4 . 13 . 11 , be were not yet matured, and some of them evaded, he would take off 50,0001. from til'S suit?, at Which would reduce it to 774,000 1 . trust; is co the u s l e d z s i t t ir b na e te tt s io , u a g ri l d it th h a e t h a a li d into 100 ' l ° 4 ; l e n t il,' were founded upon fair to be It w! s _, alu e remarked, with respca to the Revenues of 0 " 10 ,1 that the new duties created in the year 18° w ' as a operated only for six months, and that there wo ad . 1 well.grounded - expeetation that those duties __ o r,. probwaboilildtrncur 11° produce much more than according to provotfr, tiou cf that. six months. It %vats also "