The Sun. — London, England, 1802-03-03 00:00:00

IMPERI/IL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF PEERS, TUESDAY, MAltrli,l. Scotch Appeal, WALKER (v. ALLAN.--Counsel were heard in continuation relative to this' Case, namely the SOLIC I TOR GENER4L, and Mr. ALEX. 4,NDER on the part of the Respondent, and finally Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL on behalf of the Appel, lant, in reply. The LORD CIiANC,ELLOR then quitted, the Woolsack, and delivered his sentiments upon the merits of .the Case at considerable length. He con cluded a very able and Argumentative speech, by moving a proposition for the adoption of their Lordships.the result. of which was, _that the Inter locutors in question, be remitted back to the Court of Session, in order to be reviewed throughout.-- This meeting the •sense of their. Lordships, the Noble and Learned . Lord moved to that effect, and the question being. put, it was ordered accordingly.' The Bills upon the Table were forwarded in their respective stacres. Three private dills were brought. up from the Commons, by- Sir C. BUNBURY, Mr. FANE, and GeneraLGAsccmsz . • • The Order being read for their Lordships giving Judgment relative to the Appeal from. the Court of Chancery of Ireland, M'Clure v.- Echjin, The LORD CIMNCELLOR quitted the-VVool sack, and; as in the-former instance, entered into the merits of the present Case,. 'at considerable. length, and with great ability displayed a profun dity of legal knowledge, and exhibiting the whole "in a lurriinous point of view.- His Lordship con- - duded wi:h moving a proposition, the general effeef' cf which was, to., reverse the . Decree in questiOti, of the Irish Court.of Chancery, and to dismiss the original Bill, with the costs of the Court below. .- Lor s d - RE.DESDALE. (Chancellor of Ireland) ex. pressed his perfeti - coincidence in what had fallen from his Noble - and le . :a.r.ned Friend op ,the WooL sack, and expressed his decided opinion that the Decree in questioo should be reversed. ' The proposition of . the L 01.1), CHANCELLOR being reduced' to the shape- of a Motion,' the =same was put, and ordered accordingly., Some:private business - was disposed of. Lord 4CICKLONP shortly addressed the House on the subject of Woodcock's Divorce Bill, which stood for a second " reading that evening. His Lordship seemed to refer to the lateness of the hour, and the important and laborious business which had - so long occupied the - attention of their Lordships, which naturally tended to unfit them for the disciis sionof a sill to which he sh ou ld h ave to call t h e i r particular attention, and to his - reasons why it was incompatible (so . we understood . the Noble Lord) that a Bill of that description- s h o uld be entertained.- He therefore submitted the. propriety of'postponing the consideration of the Bill and under that im pression, he moved that the,SeCond• reading thereof be deferred till Thursday=i—which was ordered ac cordingly-, Some routine business was then disposed of, and ,the Bills recently brought up from the. Commons being read a first time, their Lord3hips adjourned Con zit:count of the intervention of Ash Wednesday) till Thurt,clay. . , HOUSE - OF COMMONS, TUESDAY,. MARCH 2. PETITIONS were presente4 from the Debtors con_ fined in the Gaols Of Carliale and Durham, praying for relief.—Uttered to lie on the .Table. The Committee on the Greenland Whale Fishery Bill was postpono . till to,rnprroW. . The second Expiring Laws Bill was read a second time, and committed for to-rncirrow. Mr. N. VANITTARI 4 brought up.the Indemnity BiH, :which was read a . 'first' time, and ordered-to be read a second time to-morrow. ARNIII ESTIMATES. The SECRETARY at WAR reported to the House that HIS MAJESTY ,had been waited upon with the Address of that House, and would be graciously pleased to give direetions accordingly. The SECRETARY at WAR then, presented the Estimates of the Army Services for two months. On moving that they should lie on the Table, he wished, he said, to take the opp or tunity of a misapprehension which had gone abroad relative to these Estimates. It had always been usual, after receiving the Report of the Committee o f Supply, to order the Estimates for the whole year, and to address ti ts _MAJESTY that he would be graciously pleased to order the same to be laid before the House. By some accident, however, at the commencement of the present Session, the Ad dress to His MAJESTY was limited to the :Esti mates for three months. After the Estimates were laid before the House, which he had the honour to present in the course of the preceding week, it be ing found that the Address to His MAJESTY was limited to the Estimates for three months, which had it before voted to the House, it became ab solutely necessary to withdraw them, as they had been irregularly laid before the HouSe, without His MAJESTY'S order for that pdrpose. The Estimates were, therefore, withdrawn, - and an order Made for the Estimates fcr the whole year, as had been the custom every Session. This was the.only error and the only reason why the Estimates were with drawn. Thtse he now presented were recisely the same as chose which were laid on the able of the House in the preceding week, ,and were cal culated on the same scale, and . c.lunded on the same principles as those which tie House had previously voted for three months. He hoped mere would be no objeCtion hiS mov:ng them in the Committee of Supply td-morrow. The Estimates were ordered to lie on the Table. `DUTIES ON - CINNAMON, &c . . Mr. N. Vi.WITTART moved the Order of the Day tbr the House to resolve itself into a Com - mittee, to consider of so 4nuch of the Al of the 27th Geo. 111. as rel ate d - to ' t h e Duties on Cin namon, Cassia, and Hides And Skins, and also of the 41St Geo. HI. relative to the Duties on Box Wood. The Rouse having resolved itself into a Corn_ •. rnittee, Mr. N. VANSITTART observed, that the Dn_ ties on Cinnamon and other Spices, though enafted by the At of 1787,.- were of ancient orgin, and were- impersed when the • Islands from which those Spices were imported into Europe, .were in the hands of other Powers, whichaixounted for the high rate of thOse Duties. Now, however, when the importation of Cinnamon was in the hands of the English East India Company, it became the ob. vious policy of this Country to encourage it, and it was, therefore proposed to lower the Duty on its Importation - , Which was, at present, 2s. per pound, to ts. 6d. Cassia, On' the other hand, was im ported from Islands under the dominion of Holland, and it was therefdre proposed to raise the duty. upon that. article,. which -was at present 6d, to rs. per pound. That the importation of Cinnamon was of more importance than that of Cassia, would imme diately appear from comparing -the value of each. During the last - three years, there had been imported into this Country of the former, to, the value of 409 ) (3601, and of the latter, only to the value of oo,oqql. With respel to Hides and Skins, there - could be no' doubt of the utility of encouraging the manufadory of 4eather in this Country, and it was therefore pioposed to reduce the Duties on. those articles. - The last ankle he had to allude to was -lox-wood, on which, by an At of the last Session of Parliament, a duty had been. imposed so high as almost fo amount to a prohibition, it was therefore proposed very materially to reduce that. Duty. Mr. VAI4SITT A R T .then moved several Reso4l - in conformity with his Speech, which having passed the Committee, the House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. D - ERTOR.S. - .Mr. In IVY NNE moved the Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into .a Committee on the Bill for extending Provisions of the Lords' AO. The House having resolved itself into a Com mittee; the blanks were filled up; and several ver bal amendments made.. • Mr. W. \V NNE said, it had been urged in op position to the Bill,. that persons of large property might be compelled to sell 'their estates at a period when they most be - skid at considerable disadvan tage. He confessed, he:did not see the force of the objeftiori, as it mustlllSe'efildently for the advantage of=the !Creditor tOlelYllie . estate at a time when the most money thightiii)e'ol,tained for it; but to. taob viate any inconvenlitii'er'which might result from this, he would propos Clause, authorizing the Debtor to apply to the ourt of Chancery, and em-, powering the Chancellor todecide summarily upon the application. .• , ' Mr. NICHOLLS said, if the House were deter mined to Support the present Bill, undoubte.lly this clause was absolutely necessary. The Clause however went to give the Chancellor the same power as in the case of Bankruptcy, and this was his objection, which applied to the principle of the Bill, that its objet was to ,extend the Bankrupt Laws to every man of Landed Property. If this was to be done, why not do it openly and avowed ly ; why not place men of Landed Property at 'once in the situation of Tradesmen ? Why should it not also be extended to Peers and Memlytrs of Parlia ment ? and, why should not their property be•also subjeCt to the same Law ,as the property of .other Gentlemen ? • Sir WILLIAM EL FORD asked, whether the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. WYNNE), intended to pro pose, that the Bill should be primed, as amended ? Mr. WYNNE said, the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. N HO L. Ls) had argued, as if this Bill was an . in novation ; so far, however, from being an innova tion, the principle had been three times acknow ledged by Parliament, the sums to which it had been applied, having been successively extended .by three ACts of ParliaMent, from tool. to 3001. The present Bill was merely a further extension of that principle, and he could see no reason why the sum should not be extended to 30001. as well as to 3001. It had been °Netted in the course of the discus sions upon this Bill, that a Creditor, to the amount of only • a quarter of ,any Estate, ought not to be allowed to cornPrtlt6 - hale of that Estate, It was not, however, very likely, that a .I),!btori who owed only to tiro amount of a quarter of his . Estate, would chuse to remain in gaol for near a year and a half upon that account ; if he did, he thought such • a man was deserving of no pity, as it could not be difficult for a Debtor in that situation, to raise money in the course of that time to discharge the debt, and surely a debtor of that description was not to be allowed, merely be cause he chose to do so, to live in gaol upon the profits of his estate, and to refuse to pay his cre ditors. With respea to the objettions relative to the Peers and Members of Parliament, he thoUght that subjeCt was not regularly.. before Parliament at the present moment. The present Bill only related to persons who chose to lie in gaol ; he could not discover, therefore, how any clause could be incor porated with it, to extend its provisions to persons who could not lie in gaol ; he could not see how any such clause could be regularly connected .with the Bill. Sir W. ELFORD said the Hon. Member had nu--: answered his question. He was friendly to the Bill in the present instance, and he thought the objeaions of the Hon, Gentleman (Mr. Mc HoLt.s) had been done away by the clause now proposed, but he thought the House ought to have time to consider the Bill, as amended by the Committee. Mr. NICHOLLS said, he could not agree that .he principle of the sale of freehold property for the Payment of debts had been recognized. The only principle that had been recognized was, that proper ty of that description might be taken possession of, and held till tliedebt was discharged. • Mr. ALEXANDER said he would not now go into the general question, but as it was clear that the proceedings under this Bill were to be assimi lated to the general system of the Bankrupt Laws, he thought there was a great deficiency in its pro yisionS. Under those Laws there were Officers ap pointed to execute them, and the Chancellor was ena bled to decide upon each case with a perfea know ledge of all its circumstances; but under the present Bill, the Chancellor, as well as Judges of Assize, were to be called upon to decide,- in a summary way, Without any previous information upon she suhjet. Mr. NEWBOLT said, that if the House should reje4 the first clause of the Bill, he should move to preserve the last clause, by which the power of judges of Assize relative to this su'oje6t, was- ex, tended to the Quarter Sessions. The-Clause was then agreed_ to, Mr. BURTON said, he wished to call the atter)- . tion of the Committee to a subjed which had been alluded:to in the course of this discussion, he meant the PriVileges of the Peers and Members of Parlia ment, which could not, he said, be suffered to re main as it af'ple4ent stood, if the House were de, termined to,•support the Bill. ' He thought it would - be extrernelyantlou.il to the Public, if the property Of all - the.res:Coltlie- kingdom was to be compelled to be sold, except that of Peers and Members of Par liament, it had been objeEled, that a clause rela tive to this subject could form no part of the pre sent Bill, being unconneaed with it ; but` if the provisions of the Bill were to be extended to all other persons possessed of Landed Property, why should it not be extended to Peers and Members of Parliament ? :It had invariably been the praCtice of the Constitution, that Peers and Members of Parliament should possess no privilege but what was for the benefit of the Public, as the freedom from ar_ . rest certainly was. That the property however of. Peers and Members of Parliament should_ be alone excepted from the operation of the present • Bill would be, he thought, unjust and unconstitutional ;. and though it had been. objthed that provisions, which only extended to persons lying in gaol,.could not pe made to apply to persons who could not be in gaol, he yet was convinced, that a Clause might be introduced, to attach the property of persons possessjng the privilege of Parliament, 23 well as of others. He concluded, by proposing a a Clause to enaa, that if an Execution sued . out , against any Peer or Member of Parliament,- should not be satisfied within a given time, the Creditor should be empowered to call for an account of his pro perty in the same manner, as providaby the Bill in other cases. On the Question for bringing up the Clause, The ATTORNEY -GENIE r RAL said, that the Clause was of vastly too large a scope ' to be engrafted upon the present Bill ; if this sub- left was 04pits-sed, must be• discussed in a separate forip:2—iftft , he thought the . remedy much worse than:!llP . 3 l .arievance, and it seemed to him that such a chat - Dil - would bedu intolerable burd en upon Peers and Members of Parliament. If a Peer or a Member of Parliament happened to have. an execution sued out against him - for 5661. ot%a less sum, which he might think wrongfully obtained; and therefore did not satisfy, within a certain time, he was to be called upon, like • a Bankrupt, under examination, to give an account of all his "property. Such a Clause could not, he thought, be entertained foi a moment, nor did it seem to him to grow in any manner out of the Bill, whlch was only calculated to compel a Debtor lying in gaol .to make sale of his property for the benefit of his creditors, instead of living there upon the produce of that, property. The attaching of landed property for the payment of debts, was not a very novel principle in the Laws of this Country, it had been recognized ,by the 'Statute Merchant and, Statute Staple, and .by several other Statutes by which charges were made upon land, it had been said that the Creditor in this case would ger more than his_original` contra& What if he did, he obtained it by the ,providence cf the Legislature, and if this argument was good,, To regulation' could ever be made upon the subjct until every, debt in "the kingdom had been paid, and net a single sum. remained upon .any books for payment'. As to the sale of the estate, the Debtor had obtained credit u p on th e faith of his joint property, real and personal, and it was but fair that the former, as well as the latter, s hould be answerable. With respea to the sale of a Life Estate, so as to prevent the party from barring re. mainders, that might -he reguiated by the inter ference of a Court of Equity, and the objectixt might he obviated by a provision in the prestnt Bill, The Clause now' proposed, embraced a sub jea which=niuSt„undoubtedly be discussed by its!lf, couldnot linterwoven with the present Bile The A:sn of the ROLLS said, that as this was not the proper period for discussing the principle of this Bill, he would not now trouble the House by stating'his sentiments upon it. With regard to the Clause which had been proposed by his Learned Friend, L i e dmibted the necessity of it, and to doubt the necessity of any proposed alteration in the Es tablished Law, was with him to doubt the propriety of it. The principle upon which this, part of the Law of England with regard to D'ebtors'and Credi tors was founded, was, that every Man who was in debt, and had landed property, would rather dispose of that property to satisfy his Creditors than sub_ mit to lie in a gaol. The Law might therefore be said to compel a man to sell his estate to pay his debts ; because, if it did not do so, it consigned him to imprisonment. But it had been urged in support of this Bill, that this presumption of the Law- was not always well founded, because instances con_ stantly occurred, in which persons preferred living in a prison to paying their debts by a sale of their real property. 'The object of the Bill was to com pel a sale of such property ; but this was no altera. non of the principle of the Law ; it was only car. rying it a little farther. But it this Clause was adopted, it would be adopting a new principle ; be. cause, by the Law as it now stood, Peers and Mem bers of Parliament could not be compelled, as other persons could, by duress, to sell, and therefore with regard to this Clause it was entirely a new provision ; and whether it was or was not proper to adopt it, he did not think it ought to be incor porated witlt this Bill. He did not mean to say it was notl'atitbjet - } that deserved consideration, he merely meant !tO contend that it was one of such importance, that it ought to be discussed upon its own footing. It had no natural connetlion with this Bill, because it applied the same remedy to persons who were in very different situations, and therefore the Clause, if added to the Bill, would only operate as a clog to it. Mr. BURTON said, he could not admit that the principle of this Bill was what the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman who spoke last had stated. On the contrary, he contended, that the principle.Of the Bill was to snake land liable to be sold to satisfy • Fri' Creditors, as well as personal property. The vileges of Members of Parliament, as f ar as rela ted to property, had not been acted upon duriil the last century, because they had not been found to be necessary, and therefore he was decidedly of o rile nion that this regulation. ought to extend t ° ., landed property of Members of both Houses of par !lament, as well as to that of other persons. it was a matter of no importance to him whetiler this Clause was added to th e Bill, or whether it s: ; made the subje4t. of a distind Bill: he was, h ° ` ever, strongly of opinion that it ought to 1.).e incorrr; rated with this Bill, because it was letinded ur to the same principle, and it would appall; Wang the world' if this favour was shewn filiO,r°Pl o g of Members of Parliame nt . H e was awaret",ed, this Bill would make a gr ea t c h ang e in . the 10° 4 property of C o u n t r y Ge nt l emen , and therefo re ' was undoubtedly deserving of great coniideration• • Mt. NJCHOLLS strongly approved of th o e Clause, which he said ought to be introduced it' ut this Bill, not only from its intrinsic justice) b s alsci - for the honour of the House. The . MAsT e. of the had made 4 most ingenious disW4; don, but it appeared to him not to apply to the Case, because, by the L aw as ,i t now stood,' t hex lands of Members of P ar li ament , as well as of ot perSons,'. might be taken, and kept until the debt., was 'discharged, consequently t h at distinction svil l i w e had been stated did no t ex i st , an d conseq uently 41 r right which this Bill proposed to give the Credit ° to sell the real property of his. tiebtor, ought tO tend to Members of Parliament as well as to ' rh i e ic persons. -"This not •appear to him 'to t proper time to increase the Privileges of Manh er of Parliarrient,and he really thought it would be 3 as d' s ; grace this Bill went 'out of the House lothoP having this Clause insert e d in it, because it 18' 0 ° 1 1 1 establish a distinetion between Members of b °t ,, Houses of Parliament, which t h e L aw of Eoglae did - not at present recognize, r Strangers 'were then ordered to Withdraw, aft which, we understand, th e C omm i ttee p r oceeded ¶ o _ a division, but there not b e i ng 4.0 M e mbers PT / i l sent, • the House. _adjourned a t 1 - lalf-p • t Five t " Tomorrow, THE SUN. LICELZ FALSI;,,, LQNDON, 144RCH 3, zso2? T.4s-i• night we received, BY E XERE SS, P journals of the 16th ult. ; s and this morning ti l°sc of the z7th came to hand; The latter ennPi6 aP article from the l-hur4e, dated the 29th nit. whi ; c lt states, that they had received there the most Sat iSr factory intelligence respeEting the Proceeding' s 2 ' i/igiens—,--that every tl;ing.h - ad been settled I - e1: 164 to the Cape of Good Hoi4:::and that the cjnes tic4l c which remained for adjustment was, the cWo i Indemnity on the part of the I:hitch, for their_P rs ' • India Ships detained in Iff . itish Ports, tn, There is an Address in - the Fzench Papers fxo the Colonial 4sserribly of the Isle of France to t he Consuls, which, ash hal:been inserted in the C 3161 vial journal, deserveS'sorne attention. It 4 95c° the necessity of the French Government gi- 04 'immediate support, and protection to its ColoniC ss, in case it should be required to dispute the (19,ITW' nion of the Ocean, and to secure to ocher St3WS l ' 3 the lib ert y o f t h e S eas . 'The obvious meaning '0 this Addres s is, th at t he C o l on y stan d s in g ill; need of the assistance of the mother country, 5. The ELECTOR Of BAVARIA is carrying 0 0 reformations with a very determined spirit. has added tep Members ‘,EO the Supreme Tribttnai 'of" Revision, which, since the ye;r 17 5, has hce l wholly.ipcompetent to adjudge the multitude ° causes brought before That Court is 11 054e -' . fOrWard to be divided into two chambers, far . the dispatch of bgsitiesk. - Great changes are also effe&ing in. the Conve nt • 10 11 6 of the Palatinate. Th e t w o f amous C onvents of P..' and Female Dominicans 'at Heidelberg, have b eer suppressed, and several others of the sainc or de i have been united together. Th e rea l an d perso n a property oldi e C onvents t h us suppresse d an d unit ed ' a have been applied to the Ecclesiastical Funds, to the purpose of establishing a course of Pu bi instruction in the Palatinate., But, one of the Il es f of the new regulations which has o c curre d, is, ie 1 enadment of a law to prevent the Monks I ° l begging. The people of that country, re joice, 3 they well may do, at this happy change in their cif' cums tances. The French Funds, on the 26th, were at 57' 301 We also this morning receiv e d a D utc h gad; it contains scarcely any intelligence but what has been anticipated by the Harnburgh Mail and Fte r ' c/ Papers. The Subscriptions for the Dutch Loan amou nts already to 24,000,000 florins. e The First Consul of France is said to " -sr written to the PRINCE of ORANGE, assuring:l°l that he will procure him an Indemnity . in Ger many. HER MAJESTY and the PRINCESSES Cain e Town yesterday from Windsor. The KING also arrived at four in the rl "s afrer ain° no o , There will be a Dr a wing-R oom at St, J to-morrow.