The Sun. — London, England, 1807-07-09 00:00:00

.After a few more words from Mr. Cli GKANT and eavey, ,the Petition was .ordered to be re ` !erred. to. a Committee Of • the whole House on 'Priday, Mr. WALLIA replied, that it was true an Aft of leireament must •be 'passed before the Company eouitt raise more money on bonds, and to procure such an -Mt was the precise obje4 of the.Pe titioneusepresented by his Hon. Friend. The COM pany had never stated that -they. could not increase their capital; they merely stated that at the present moment :it wae.: more convenient and expedient to adopt the mode of raising Money upon bonds. cOMMUKTER , OF. HtiVi : LEGEt.. IVI r. Rose brought up the Report of the Committee of Nivile.geaeto whom the letter addressed by George ,Gal. Way Mills, Esq. to the Speaker of the House of • ,Com nuns; ande he Petitions presentedagainst the said e r 7 iteorge CielWay•Milli, Esq. had been referred. The Ileilort gated ; that the Committee had examined, keel !build that the Said , George Galway Mills, Esq. ee:ai a member of the House of:COmmoua;and that 'be was• then in. the custody of the Marshal of the 'King's Bench. The Committee had consulted pre -Cedents, and had abstained from examining the alle gations contained in the Petitions which .had been referred to them, conceiving that even had those aIIB . galiohs been proved, that wad not have infhienced their Judgment, or prevented them from coming to the resolution which they had adopted, namely, that the said George Galway Mills, Esq.' was entitled to the PriAegeeof Parliament. Mr. Rase then moved, that the House do agree with the Committee in that Resolution.. • P..1140014E, ,as e Member of the Commit te'e, and as having himself presented a Petition to' the Hoese against Mr. Mills, stated a few points, • " whiCh, iu his opinion, the Hoese, duly regarding its own ehon6ur and dignity, circumstances much . More important than the privileges of an individual, , ought deliberately to consider. The Petition to which he alluded had. been presented by him with, "the cohcurrence of, the person against whom it was direeted, and far whose Interests he and others had exerted their utmost efforts; those efforts had been , feinless, beeattie that Hon. Gentleman did not chow() to abide by his own propositions. Mr. Nills'e debts, of .various descriptions,. exceeded 30,000 i.. Not one, of hiS creditors wished to inter w.ith the , privileges of Parliament;. but 'they thought, and certainly . .ther,ivere justified in. think itigethet while the House of Commons attended to file preservation of their privileges,-they should alsO attend to the deMands. of justice, and to the pre sereation of their credit with the Public. As far as time would fiIIONV the Committee had examined,all the precedenla which appeared to bear upon the pre . Spilt i.e4:eeet, but,. iii his opitlion, net 9ne was. feund that met the ease stated in the Petitions. The Pe titions eentaleed this allegetien, eleit the. Petitioner • bed obtained .his seat in -Parliament ,15 a terneorary. _proteelion, in oldtlr to evade the dereseedsOf; his ere-, ditors, and ultimately, he was compelled to say so , . defrau4 was sorry to be obliged tteuse, *wit language when speaking of one with whom he ftet been in habits • of intimacy ; but in a .cease so glarine, which so Siroegly excited the public (men cede at three: like these, it would be well for the Ittease to pause b e fo re . they granted to any man, un der suelreikumstances, the benefit of the privileges, by which the ends of public justice would be defeated. tit had prepefiekleo t he CoMmittee to gonna the alle: 'tower, cootahled in the Petitions. The Report can .iated wily they had not done so. There might ' eeeeliar cases ill winch it would be adviseable to geint eTteilee e , wittellit such an examination ; hut die not 'appear to be one of them. Was it pro r !hat, he xln uld be •a Leeislator e who himself af ..leee-e to treople upon law ele wherved, that there was a precedent It COUid . poSsibly ne•expeded ; . it a of 4.c. Basset, in the reign of Charles.l. s wil d net been arerested on a inesnt; pfocesa,. when it .ezes resnived that he was Aecidedly entitled to the riGi:eges 'of Par;iltnent. On this ground, and Qll `filly c the groued dee even were the allegations proved, mid 'not influence the Reiolutions of the to.eeettee iu this respect, Oose allegations had not "been gone into. • Mr. O.OI',VAT agreed. .most cordially to the Report Of the Conenittee. The House were bound .to support tliey ‘vhich were given to •the:n, not for their advantage, but for drat of the y eutory et large, The privileges w hi c h' M em b ers ;ei•fPerliainent enjoyed of fr e ed om f ro M ar i est, was ; good ter the EleAtirsos fbr the Eleaed • 'ware it 'not se, litany of the former might go unrepresented. Therer viits not a single instance ott the Journala of the House, refusing the privilege when clearly de ;fined. telepaid the' abandonnlvot of this privilege argued, he treated. it would be argued, not on a 'yttOctilar l but on a general view of the sutijea— not With si refereriee to the individual immediately, 'concerned, but With. ; a refereece ' to.the lienoitr of 'Parliament, and, the adVantage of the Community. " Mr. COCHRANE' JOHNSTON E, thought that' e speeitfl 4 epuit might t o h ave . been made the Comiisittee on an iaspatioe of the Petitions. Which coitteine4 so strong a charge on the charatier of one of the Members of that House :, they stated that be ;bed procured Si seat in that Hou s e f ur t h e ex p ress , rporpoNe of enabling him tp evade the .payment of hisdebits, and to escape to the West Indies. He understood that four or fiVe persons now in the King's Bench were' anxiously waiting. the,decision. •of the House, in order that if that decision• were favourable to Mr. Mills, they might avail themselves of his example, 'and take similar steps in order to relieve themselves of similar embarrassments. He entreated be House, jar their credit's sake, before they ordered the liberation of this Gentleman, either to refer the Petitions back to' the Committee, or to take the subject into their grave and serious consi deration. ' • " ' ELMSONcleelared, that the Committee had • entert4 upon this subjael ‘iith feelinga as allied to the foulness of ; the civic as could possibly-be enter tained. If the allegations of the Petitions were proved against Mr. he thought that no Hon. eVJettiber ought to sit iii the House , with him ; but he thought, tleit circumstanced as they were, the Qommittee could do no more than they had dotle. A 1111,410 he was of Opinion that it would be bvttoqo eonsjOr this subjeet'generally, yet if it werie leeined adtiSable to take it up particularly, he wu I gti'its far as 'any' Man to' rescue the Howie feel'. the imputations that might Otherwise be cast upon it. It thews was one duty more tioleant than another, it was, that at the present mometit the House should keep itself as clear as possible front any suspicion of dishonour. "'Mr. S/MEONobserved, that no imputation could possibly rest on. the House, because the allegations contained in the Petitions had_ not yet been examined. The Committee of Privileges had nothing to do but with the simple case, ,• whether Mr. Mills was a Member of the House,: and whether he was in the ,custody of the civil law ? • • Mr. BARHAM deprecated any interference with the Privileges of the House in this single case. If it could be proved that Mr. Mills had procured his Eletion for fraudulent purposes, that would be a fit subje& for the consideration of an Eledion Corn mittee: he thought that Mr. Mills had been rather hardly treated, in having such grave accusations , urged against him in his absence, when he was un able to reply to them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de clared, that it was impossible not to approve the conduct of the Committee, in refraining from enter.:. ing into the allegations of the Petitions. Mr. Mills's letter had been referred to them to ascertain the fads which it. contained, and not to consider the law dependent on those fads, which had never been questioned. Even hid such a Special Report been made as was wished for by an Hon. Gentleman,' and had the allegations been found proVed, still the m W House trust have granted the privilege. • hat the law was, and what it ought to be on revision, were two very different considerations. On this subjed he would at present say, that it would require, some very strong arguments to induce him to believe that the public convenience and advantage would be promoted by the abandonment of this Privilege of Parliament, although he was aware that in some cases it was produdive vrivate injury. Neither could he agree with the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Barham), that, if it could be proved that an Election was procured for fraudulent purposes, such Election must become void.' If the charges against Mr. Mills, with the aggravating circumstances at tending, could be substantiated (which, in justice to that Gentleman, he must remark had not hither to been done), it might amount to: a question•of expulsion ; but. even in that case, it would be pro per that the accused should be within the walls, to defend himself and his seat. Mr. LITTLLTON and Mr. HEUESERT each said a few words. • Mr. W. SMITH remarked, that the House•tnight sutrender the exercise a right' in a particular in stance without abandoning it. 'He thought the Re port of the Committee was perfe&ly proper ; for the House to take it up if they.s'aould think fit. The motion for agreeing with the Committee in their Resohation'wds then carried, as was-also a mo tion by Mr. Rosa, that the said George Galway Mills, Esq. be discharged out of the custody of the Marshal of the King's Bench. • INDIA. Mr. Du DAS; in pursuance of his notice, observed, that the Governments of Madras an Bombay had no authority to enact regulations for police, &c. such as that conferred by Parliament on the Government of Bengal. It was desirable to remove this distinc tion, as also to regulate the Chartered Banks in India, and the periods of service of-the Civil Servants of the Company. 1-le therefore moved for, and ob- . tained leave to bring in,. a Bill for the better govern. meat of the Settlements of Fort St. George and Bombay; for the regulation of Public Banks in India ; and for the amendment of such regulations as related to the periods for; which the Civil Servants . of the East India Company might. be employed iu their service abroad. WINDSOR VOR,EST; • , • , The CHANCELLOR of the Exciatouatt obtained leave to bring in a Bill to repeal two Clause* is the Apt of last. Session, for inquiring into• the state of Windsor Forest and ascertaining its boundaries. CHAR)TI ES. Mr. FOSTRR presented' from the .Pro. testaut Schools, the Foundling Hospital, the . Lying" in Hospital, the Lock Hospital, and other CharitAle Institutions in Ireland, .;praying for the tiswl.annual Grants..'- . —Ordered to be laid on the table. On The motion of Mr. FosTßa, it was. ordered, hat there be laid before the lion4e an Estimate :of he Expellee of supporting the above Charities,. • • • Mr. Fosteu also gave notice, that in the Corn. mittee of Supply, on Friday, be would move these grants. - - - - Mr. FOSTER obtained leav4: to , bring in the follow- iug Bills: A Bill for making further Regulations with re :Ted to Licences for the sale of Siiirits by. Retail in Ireland ; A Bill to amend the At of the 46th of his pre sent Majesty, for regulating the Colleclion of . the Duties on Spirits in Ireland ; A Bill to provide for the Recovery of Penalties in the Excise Laws, and to alter the Conditions of Cer • • tain Bends given by Brewers in Ireland ; • . • A Bill for Abolishing the Fees of ensnare-house •011ieers in the different Ports of Ireland, and for re plating their .honrs el„attendant;.e,_ . On the :motion of -Mr. FOSTKII it was ordered, that the House shoold to-morrow resolve itself i n t o a' Cotnmittee to consider of the Aels.reapeCting the Exportation of Provisions from ireland. He.-ab; , served that the grazing business of Ireland had be- Come gradUally less and less profitable, to'whicb circumstance the duty, of 4 per cent. on all Exports from that country had not a little contributed. ' He intended in the Committee to-atorrow to move the repeal of that duty, as far as it regarded the exporta tion of provisions, and to counteract the duty on the salt, in the same manner as on the salt used for curs ing fish. SIR. HENRY Sir H, MILDAMY rose pursuant to notice, to move that-there be laid before the House a Supple ment to his : Memorial, which was already upon the table. He took that occasion to state that 1)0 owed considerable acknowledgments to Lord SIDMOUTH'S Government, tor the fairness and liberality which he had eN)erienced from it. His first oiler bad been made to the Barrack Office. during that Administra tion, but the whole of the business respeating .the letting of his house had taken .place after that Ad.. ministration had gone out of office. His principal. objed in rising had been ,to move that there be before the House, certain letters which he had re ceived from some individuals ,of the Jury that had • awarded bun fhe compensation for the injury his pro perty sustained. Of • the whole of those who com posed the ,Jury, he was not acquainted with the ad drosses of more than four, one of whom was the ' foreman. They were amongst the most respeaable persons in the county. The Hon, Baronet 'then read extraas from these letters, which explicitly stated, that the sixteen acres, with the house, were not included in the estimate of compensation that the award did not preclude the Hon. Baronet from residing in, or disposing of the house; that of the 13001. awarded by the Jury, 7001. was for the injury done to the ground by the works, and to defray the expence of restoring it to the state - in which it was before the construtaion of the works; and that the Jury were aware, at the time of making their award, of his being in treaty with Government for the house. And here he begged to call the attention of the House to the situation in which he stood with reaped to 'this transaction. In June next he should be obliged to return' to that house, with a barrack within . half-a-mile of it on one side and on the other. The sums he had received as compensa tion for a house that had cost 70,0001. to build, were very inconsiderable, though that house had been destroyed, at least, as a residence tbr his family. . If he had been upon the Jury, he had no difficulty in saying, that he should have awarded considerably more than had been awarded to him. However, whether the Jury had awarded him 501. or 5001. he thought himself equally bound to abide by their judgment. He only wished that the House should be able fully to judge of his conduct as to the whole of this transaaion, awl with that view he moved, that the letters he alluded to should be laid before the House. The.SPEAKER reminded "the Hon. Baronet that consistently with the established usages, the. House could not take notice of letters from any private in dividual on the subject. If they had been produced as documents before any Public Office or Board, then it would be regular for the House to call for them. Sir H. MICOMAY said the lettets had been given in to the Commissioners of Military - Inquiry, this day, in the form of a Supplement to his Memorial. The question being put. that this Supplement to the Memorial of Sir H. Mildmay be laid before the House, . . Lord HOI I ICK had no objeClion to the produc tion of this Paper, and he hoped it would prove as satisfactory as the statement just made by the Hota Baronet, though he lamented that it did , not appear to him yet as satisfaCtory as could be desired. There seemed to be some strange mistake in the case, be cause the Hon. Baronet had stated in hie examina tion that the 4001. a-year was to procure him another residence ; and pow it was said to have been grant- ed on the general ground of enabling him to restore , the land from the injury dwie by the works, If the ium had been awarded for the refit, it would -have b . n an exorbitant allowance to make an award_ at th rate of 201. per acre ? and if for the land, the w) olt of the compensation ought togo to the tenants . ,But the Eion:Baronet, in his examination, had stated that the 4001. per annum was to provide another ii residence for him; in this view the statement did not appear to him satisfaaory. •Mr. CANNING was surprised at so. complete a misunderstanding in so plain a point. Tile fault he foundwith his Hon. Friend was, that he had carried , his delicacy too far in the steps 1..! hid taken to jUs-' tify himself; unless it could be made out that . he had had a corrupt understanding with the JUry, he wag not more responsible for .their award than any Member 0: that House. The answer of the Hon. Baronet to die, Commissioners was One which he was hot bound to give, nor the Commissioners au thorised to ask, becan4e it was not for hint to account fin the award of the Jury. The tool. were ?warded to his Hon: Friend to replace the land in the state in. which it was before the constru.iion of the works. Rut the Noble Lord forgot his Hon. Friend could not regain possession of: the premises till Government gave up the lease. The.WOble Lord had argued that the compensation included the whole the Hon. Ba eatict had a right to demand, but surely the Noble Lord would not contend that.his Hon. ri'riend, after this compensation, might not have. resided in the house if he had thought fit ; and why not then dis pose o f it in anyway he might think proper i He could not perceive any just distin&ion between the occupation of the house by his Hon. Friend and his letting it to another, the compensation having been given for the nuisance occasioned by the construction of the works, and it was his opinion that neither the House-nor the Country had any thing to do with the award of the Jury. • Mr. HILT "IDDINGTON, from what bad, fallen froth the Hon. Baronet, did not think it ne cessary to trespass upon the House in explanation of the part , which the Administration for which he must be supposed to be so nearly concerned had in this transaction.' That Administration had resigned. their seals of office on the 12th of May, and it was on.the 15th that the part of the transa&ions Which appeared to be most blameable had taken place: , He could say for that Administration, ,that, if the trans ' action were right, it would have effeaed it without \ regard to the political triendship or opposition of the party concerned. • ihe 'quest* was then put _and agreed to.. SALE, OF VACANT COMMISSIONS. Mr..COCURA NEJOHNSTONE, in pursuance 'of his notice,.roie to move, " That.there be laid be fore the House an Account of all Sums of Money that.had been received for the Sale of Commissions which at any time became vacant by death, dismis sion, or in consequence of the promotion of Officers who were not allowed to sell out, from the year 1795 to the present time, specifying the names: of the persons by whom 'paid and received, and the uses for which those SUMS were from time to time applied; together with the receipts which.had been given .tist ttie same."—He wag not sufficiently con versant with the forms of the House to know what was the most proper mode of shaping thii Motion. It had appeared to him sufficient to move for a di, re6t Order of the House for' the prodthiou or the Account ; but the Right Honourable Secretary at War seemed to think that . his Motion s h o Uld b e for an Addres s t o hi s Majesty. As he was not com petent to decide which mode was the most pro ter one, he submitted the matter to the decision of the, Chair. The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Member, that, in his opinion, the most respetiful was the most proper mode. It was the piaetice of the House, where any Papers Were called for from any Public ► Ofliee to make a: direct Order for their produc tion ; but when any thing was asked for that came under the personal cognizance or controul of hi,: Majesty,,the usage of the Ho t,1%! was to appl7 f-r . its prodtaStion by .an Addrss t.. his Majesty.. this otse,. however, he did not give any E.Rnitat ,as to the course that should be pursued, but hit it• to the House to decide upon the statement ttut the: Honourable Gentleman might Take : of the na• .turs , of the• Account for whicivhe purposed to move. Mr.-CocliaANE JOHNSTONE then said, that he did not think an Address necessary ; and thereforeinoved for a dire& Order of the House. - ' On- the question being put, The SECRETARY at IVAR rose, and • stated,' that he had no objeaion whatever to have the 10 7 stance of the Motion of the Hon. Gentleman pro .duced to the House : at the same time he was.not satisfied that it would not be an interference with the prerogative of ,his Majesty, to whom belonged - • -by the Constitution the whole disposal of Commis sions in the Army. HoweVer, as he knew it was the earnest desire of the illustrious Personage at the head .of the Army that this should -be. thoroughly sifted, he should agree to the substance of the Mo tion, entering his protest against its el e& so f a r as. it would intrfere with the constitutional preroga 7 fives of the Crown. With regard to the point, whe .ther this Motion should be framed in the shape - of an Address to his Majesty, or for a dirett Order of the House, he had to observe, that the names of the persons appointed to Commissions were presented to his Majesty, and his Royal opinion taken upon them, 'and," in that case, it was his convitaion that the mo tion ought to be for an Address to hi s Majesty. With respeel to the Papers moved for, it would be nee* nary for him to trespass upon the time of the House,- ' though net at any length, in order to state the ea» tore of the AccOunts proposed to be brought Wore them. He, should avoid any useless detail, but a short stateinetit oa thii point was necessary, in order to shewto the Houie; that no improper use had been made of the power of disposing of Commiksions, not:' . of the application of the sums procured in that man. net. The sums so obtained were •disposed of for two purposes, which were not only in theniselses completely justifiable, but refleeted the highest credit upon the illustrious', Personage at the head oldie Army. These purposes were promoted by that illustrious Personage, no less upon views of public economy than upon principles of private benevOd lence, and what was equally to his honour, at the expence.of his just and legitimate patronage. The objeas to which the funds arisiug from the ail: , of vacant commissions, as stated in the motion, were applied, were, first to the reduEtion of the hall-pay fund, of which he should,say a few words presently; and secondly, to make a provision for the wipes and families of such Officers as may fall in the service; of their Country. The last instance that occurred of this second description, was in the case of ColOr4 Vassal. His commission was allowed to be .sOld for the benefit bf his widow; and. on the principle of rational .policy, that must be considered 15a saviegto the public funds of the Country, a* otherwise the widow of that gallant and tneritorioua Officer would have been justly intitled to some adequate provision from the public. The Commander in Chief had in this, as in other instances of that•nature, acted upoit the purest public' grounds,.though for himself he could not say that the instances of that description were in general personally known ta him. As to the first trJrpose to which these sums hero u pptivds the reduthoo of the half-pay fined, he shout,: just say a, few words. In time of peace there was no difficillty in filling up the commissions in ,the army by persons willing to 'purchase. In war it was not , to; though a sufficient number were r*,:d.e t o , purs chase the, higher commissions. This arose from. the great augmentation of the military force, so that there remained a consid era bl e num b er of Eusignciei 'vacant for which purchasers could nut be found. • This had happened. p art i cu l ar l y at the conclusion , o f the late wer, so that there were many regiments without a single Ensign. At the peace, when the Establishment was seduced, a great number of Lieu tehants were to be put upon the half-pay, whi' st ,. there still Would remain- a considerabl e ; l umber o f vacant Ensigneies. The Commander in Chief, t° obviate the inconvenience to the public from the in; crease of the expense of the half-pay list, propose , ' that the Lieutenants, in the place of being reduced to half-pay, should serve as effective Ensigns. A precedeut of this arrangement had taken place at the peace of 1763, and the measure. had been pro dutitiVe :Avery beneficial consequences to the aril' Some inconvenience might have resulted from 10 plan, -but the advantage was obvious,. and that wa s not 'the time for hint to trouble th e H ouse wit h the details.. The Ensiltns were then reduced 1 ° half-pay, and the 'sum of 3001. fixed, itpo t i t o begiVen to such as should give up their CortltlliSrai: for that sum. In order to discharge the fund thus created, the Cotnmander in Chief allowed the commissions t° be sold. If .they had been all sold at once thef would have stopped alipr o ' m O t i nn. and ,boon produc tive of great inconvenience. And it was therefore thought that it would be much better tell'ave then' sold from time to time as the OCCaSi° ll sbuuld To this half-pay fund also the sums arising fon -the sale _of other commissions , was applied.: 'wh ew ever a vacancy oectirred, if an experienced and tne: ritorious Officer was ,next in succession he. got the promotion, but it 'often happened that a you , ' cobyuisdal"ett.obeanya vacates : Offic er was next in succession, in which case chase, an d t h e su m s a r ising from such sale' °feat to p ut ' o h t a h r e d r ih o i da t r o o din ih p c o e s r e , o - w f il t ii h n e g . missions we re app li ed to the half-pay fund. Mae' o ther source of supply to this fund arose, when OE dens were leaving the service whO had, purchas"; some of their promotion, but had got other. . estop without purchase . Sucho ffi cers, were allowe d sell only what they hnd purchased, unless by M i s r, service they should have a claim to be allowed, sell the whole. In such cases the whole comm i t sins was sold, and the part to which the cretirl! officer was not i n ti t l e d was transferred to t h e h pay fdnd. ,By these regulations the Illustrious pe r t nonage at the head o f the army gave-up a great P art of his own p atronage, i n t h e disposal of commillso, , for the purpos e o f pu bli c econemy, and to p,rot n o is the good of th e serv i ce. H e should follow tilt motion of the Hon. Gentleman, by mokiitig. I °' account of the stuns saved to the public by the ett pleyment of the Offic ers ta k en f rom the half-pas He trusted that the House would indulge him, w hi o a he stated what the Illustrious Personage at the h e el ! of the army had d ons fig its bent-fit. It was %%i , known what abuse s b a d b een committe d at the C° l , t n ,,, tnencetnent of th e ,l ast war, i n :ti e purc h ase a r dseer.,