The Sun. — London, England, 1807-01-06 00:00:00

war, passing over the. exceptionable parts of the note,' Ir_kticrit. he could not , but reprobate the insult offered to the dignity of the Nation, in the passports having 11..:11 so long withheld after they had been demanded: The terms ()tight to have been discussed rather than the -form, at a'time, when the French Plenipotentiaries had so far recognized the basia of aanal possession, that there was reason to hope that they might be brought to agree to satisfaelory terms. There was a p i ssage, in • one of Lord Lauderdale's Notes, .on re suming the,Negetiation, which he did not like to see there, namely, that in one of the French Plenipoten tiary's Notes there was something like an insinuation that an advantage was intended to be taken by land in the appointment of a second Negotiator, and it - was. on this passage that Lord Yarmouth bad been recalletL, • At" this time we were 'negotiating separately from Russia, and all the time previous to this period had been wasted by England in discussing the basis, whilst both parties comprehended clearly the basis of actual possesSiOn, siXbje& to exchanges upon equivalents. Here' comrbenced another stage of the Negotiation, when the intelligence: was receiv ed of the non-ratification of D'Otibrirs Treaty.— On the 13th `of September Lord Lauderdale agreed to a conference upon the terms; and:whether or not the terms the French Government was then dis posed to grant would be gloriOus for this - Country, whether they would be such as RUssia would be likely to approve of, be should not then inquire. 'But if what bad been. done On the 18th of Sept. had been done .on the tlth , of August, when Lord Lauderdale had repeated 'his application for his passports, he was of opinicin that .a Peace might havebeen . obtained.— As to the - Priissian war, though he was not then dis . pds.ed tocomment upon the condua of that Power, in the . same manner as under other circumstances, for herpolicy dui-ing the last fourteEn years, he could. tiot but observe, that she appeared in a moment of aradiii:Ag to have rushed into a war that has brought on the ruin which has f..)llowed. It has been much the praCtice to talk of thicruerty, injustice, and rapacty of the enemy; but we should extend our view over the whole . scene, before we applied'such terms to the condo& of any Power, or blindly employed lan guage that can have only the effe& of rendering all Governments implacable. It was not certainly upott the theatre of the present War,. in the heart of Poland, that' the Powers ccintending against France should rise their yokes to accuse her of injustice, spoliation, and rapacity. :When we go into the field ourselves, we should see that we are free from stains before we lavished such charges upon our enemy. And certainly, when we comidered our own condua in the East, we could net with justice accuse our enemy on the score of inustice and atrocity. He had approved of the Peace of Amiens, and reprobated its rupture - i and in this he had been supported by the wisdom of the great Statesman now unfortunately no more, and by the talents of his Noble Friend. That Peace'-took every thing from rus but Ceylon and Trinidad, though it left Malta in an unsettled state.. We might now have got Malta and the Cape in full sovereignty, and Pondicherry, and would have to cede only their West India Colonies. As to the making Sicily a siqe qua von, lit . shonld ;not presume to state any thing' against the wisdom of such adetermination of Mr. Fox. But if even Russia had ratified her Peace, it would have been ignominious for us to have abandon- . ed it when.once we had taken it under our proteaion. Another point had been Dalmatia. This Country had been ceded to Austria, by the Treaty of Lune vine, with the Venetian States ; but 'the third Coali tion, which he had never yet heard ji:itified, Which bad been the most unjust, ill-ad Vised; and - illLcon 7 duaed scheme that 'ever :had been devised, defective in every principle - and marked With duplicity at-its outset and, in its progress, that Coalition led to the eacie of Presburgh, which gave Dalmatia to France. She certainly did not . deSire Dalmatia fordefence, but for Qffeusyo purposes., France had shown a r e i a a . .. once to give that. province' up to Russia, and it'was Worth considering, whether or not it was an - objeal with England and ' Russia for Dalmatia 'to Continue the calamities of war. As to the Turkish Empire, the integrity of that State was stated,' by- both RUssia and France, to be an4thjeell dear to them, and was equally menaced by both. The French end ROssians carried on continual intrigues at the Porte, arid we assisted' the Russians, because it Was 'More for our interest that the Russian influence should prevail there. If, however, France- had any rs , ,al designs on Turkey, it would be long before she could he established tiler( whilst' Russia was oh the oilier side, 'and even then the 'danger to Indian' pOs. 'sessions would be doubtful, but certainly 'reinote. He. Lid 'stated his , Views thus in detail, because he had a — decided Objaion to : the Address as it ,stood on, the The Papers did not appear to him to justify the declaration; that the Negotiation tad failed in consequi.'-'nce of the injustice_ and ambi flan of. France. We were not vet -arrived at that state in which peace.rnay not be made, and he hoped and believed a peace might be brought about. He was convinced of theSineerity with wh:ch the King's Mi nisters had songhtfOr peace, but in his mind they had Mistaken . the way. If Lord Lauderdale had done, on the t t th of Augdst, What he had done on the 18th of Sept. he was of opinion that Peace might have been „made, ,and war with Prussia prevented. In one of • Lord Yarmouth's conversations with Talleyrand, that Minister declared, that the bitterness Which was felt at the commencement of the War had in a very- great Measure sub Sided, and the French Government 'was more pacifically disposed, and he was glad to find, in the last note from that Minister to Lord Lauder dale, that the French Government was still ready at any future time to renew the Negotiation - for Peace. He would hot recommend a resumption of the Negotiation at present; nor that we should sue, , under any circumstances, to any Government for Peace. He was willing that' We should'follow the example of Russia„ in stating' that we were ready to renew the Negotiation on jrist conditions. We were engagei 11i a contest that called for every sacrifice, and we were prepared to support it with the most fervent loyalfy and attachment; but it was desirable that the roads of peace should not be block ed up, nor the gates of mercy shut. He had pre pared an Amendment, which he proposed to move, to the Address, to this- died but As . he had not-had any communication with any Gentleman upon the subjeEt, he did not know whether it would meet with- any support;. but if any Gentleman thought with him, he would nevertheless - second'his Motion, and at any rate it would 'be read from the Chair. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving an Atnendment to the following purport, Which was to be substitued:for the latter part of the Address " To assure his Majesty of • the firm determination of that House to co=operate with his Majesty in call-' lug forth the Resources - of the. .Inited_.Kingdom, for the vigorous prosecution of. the War in which this Country is• unhappily still engaged : and to express to his Majesty aH earnest request, that. his Majesty• 'will, in his paternal solicitude for his People as far -as may be consistent with tbe honour of his Crown and the interests of his Kingdoms, afford every faci lity to the.-restoration of the blessings Of Peace."' Mr. G. JOHNSTONE seconded the Motion. .• Mr. CANNING expressed his surprise that no attempt was made by any of his Majesty's Ministers to answer any of the-observations which had fallen frOm the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last. Had the same opinions and observations come from his side of the House, or from any supposed intention to produce, a popular ,impression unfavourable to the condua of Administration, in what a high and angry tone would they net have been retorted. But such were the dear ties, the habits of intimacy, and syinpLithy of sentiment which have so long pre vailed between that Hon. Gentleman and so many of his friends in office, that whatever might be his strain of reasoning, so satisfied were they that no thing unfriendly could be intended by him, that they allowed it to pass without any notice; .much less animadversion: He confessed there was much of that Gentleman's speech in which he coincided, while he was obliged to differ from him in many of his con- elusions. He could .not help remarking the dif ferent tone respecting the conduit of the enemy, which the Noble laird (Howick) and the Hon. Gen tleman (Mr. Whitbread) assumed on the pre sent occasion.—They, distinguished as they were • for talents and integrity, had often displayed -their eloquence , as advocates of the same enemy.— But he begged.leave. to .be understood, as referring 'only to the arguments and observations which these distinguished Statesmen so emphatically dwelt upon in the numerous discussions on former Negotiations. He should now advert to the three.points which the Noble Lord had, on a former day, anitnadverte.; upon as having been stated and canvassed by him. The first respeeted the overture of Peace coming from the Ene my : The 2d; the basis of the uti.poasidetis which was adopted by the British Government to negotiatenpoh : 3d. The nature of our alliance and connection. with Russia, and our good faith towards our Allies. He was now perfe&ly satisfied. that the overture first came from France : his having advanced a different opinion had proceeded from the'linterpelatiens and - fabrications which marked the publication of the official documents by the French Government. He must continue to think that the mode in which the correspondence was openedappeared unworthy of the, mind and charaaer Of the greatman . by whom it was ,commenced. As to the good faith which Govern -anent observed towards our Allies, it afforded him great satisfaeciora in one view of it. Indeed, with re aard. to the manner in which it was• evinced towards Itussia, - he could not help thinking RuSsia was made our debtor ; while ) at the same time, he was willing even 'to confess, that although no such stipulations and bonds had united us to Russia as those with which we were bound, yet a large and liberal pO.. liey would have prescribed the mode of , condua which -we•, had acted upon towards - her,' There was, however, a great chasm in the Correspond ence, which must have left unexplained much of the nature of that connexion and concert between the two Courts. He was aware, indeed, that prta dence 'and discretion might justify these omissions, and he was ready to give Government credit thr not disclosing it. He must.. beg leave, nevertheless, to observe, thSt while good faith was adhered to, the policy of the thing should have been overlooked. It might be asked, what should.be the result of a corn-- blued Negotiation between two great PowerS ? Not, surely, that they should be, obliged to agree on all and every point. Such restrialoh musteOlten impede orxetard the. march of any Negotiation. The great object of the policy of such a combivatiOn should be; that the two great Powers thus combined should shew and convince the world e that their joint efforts were openly _and steadily directed to rwscue Europe frOM its present :state of thraldom, and secure its inde pendence for the future. These views it was not po litic to conceal, , whether we were to negotiate se parately.-as to form with ,Prsia, or jointly as to substance.. The spirit and ohjed of the Negotiation should not only be known . here, but he held forth to. the knowledge ofeill tlfe world: Was this joint resolution, however,.. made known at Berlin ? Was it known at :Vienna ? Was it' knpWil tO.Europe Did 'loathe notion entertained of it create desperi dency .and despair. at Berlin ? :See how it is men tioned in the Prussian Manifesto : attend to the mischievous effeets which the ig'norance • a it there produced.. Were f not the stipulations believed to' be hostile to Prussia ? Were, not both Codits supposed to.negotiate separately, and both to negotiate to 'the disadvantage of Prussia ? _But it will be said that was a misrepresentation. Granted.' But did we not furnish the French Government with an opportunity of successfully availing themselves of.such a misre presentation ? But did not. the distinct courses pur sued by M. D'Oubril and LordYarmouth give suf, ficient countenance to such a 'supposition ? Then every mishap should not ,be imputed to the blind infatuation of Prussia.—Now a word' or two on the third point—the basis of the uti pos,sidetis. The more he considered that point himself; and the more .he consulted the opinion of others respeaing it; the more was _he convinced that the Papers on the table‘ did not make out the charge urged against ~ the enemy, that be opened the Negotiation on that basis, and _that they departed froth it. This-1 was an issue of fad ; and were The 'evidence brought forward in support, and laid - before . an ordinary Jury, it would be found not proved.— But the House will be asked, have you not heard,, the explanations and assertions of Lord Yarmouth, and will not you believe them ? No doubt, the wind of a Gentleman, of a man of honour, is not to be questioned; delicacy forbids it in private inter, course, and he should be the last man in the world to doubt the assertion of the Noble Lord.--: But, as a public man, as a Member L ef Parlia ment, as a person looking to what this .Country. and Europe eapected, he must consider only what appeared on the face of the ,correspondence ; there he must look for prOofs, and there they were not to be found. It was certainly indelicate and ungener ous, if any such slip had got into the'Declaration; to rest it wholly on the assertion of the Noble Lord. Nor was that all—should a paper - so hastily worded as the memorandum of the Noble Lord be made - ing. to appear the deliberate Sense/of the Sovereign .? In short, m 'such Matters, if you speak wrong, you act wrong : for upon the' mode of expression every thing turned in the Negotiation, therefore it was of essential importance ! With regard to the uti possi detis, he had an:cc:things to observe-Ist, That the fact of its existence was not proved--edly, That it was not of the importance attached to it-3dly, That if it was proposed Ministers did not go the right way about it. As to the proof, he observed, before, that it . rested only on parole evidence, and thatie was unfair to make it bear solely on -the word of Lord Yarmouth. Besides, if that Noble Lord did not happen to be' a' Member of that House, the House would have had no proof et all : but this was mere accident, and the other House of Parliament had not the -same advantage.— All the arguments and reasoning of, Ministers went to establish the principle of actual possession. But. it should be observed, that the terms uti possidetis, status quo antebellum, &c. were like axioms adopted in the severer sciences : you start from them to argue, not argue to arrive at them. This, however, is what has been adopted in this Negotiation. In= deed it is not easy to account for' the studious eva sion by Mr. Fox of the use of all technical phrases, while M. Talleyrand , was forward to employ them. The ,latter proposed the - stipulations of. the Treaty of Amiens ; the former objected to them - as a basis, but proposed two principles, out of which a basis might -• be ' formed ; but never eXpress ed it by any of the usual technical terms. Indeed, there was bothibg in the whole course of the Cor respondence from which it can be inferred that the uti possidetis had ever been acknowledged by the Enemy. How is Europe to know that such is the feet ?—Will they believe it from the mere asser tion of- any Member of that House ?—This parole evidence will not avail there, and hence the dif ficulties that must arise to future Negotiations from . the publication of such non-official communications. In shOrt, in his opinion,- this defence would never have been set up were it not for a certain Pamphlet on the State of the Negotiation, which he was set-, prised was not officially disavowed; or rather been diSavowed in the most unequivocal way,- by pu niShing the Author or Publisher of it : its libellous obervations on our magnanimous Ally surely called for some animadversion. But by that Pamphlet we bad - been informed ,that the communications-f ,- om Lord Lauderdale only would be laid before the Pub- Ec. On them the Declaration had been framed.- - dnd when the. uti possidetis was-referred .to it be came absolutely necessary to make it out. But in his opinion that attempt has every where failed. Indeed any other basis would have answered equally well, or rather Much. better, or More aptly taken in Sicily, - which was the great stumbling. *block.— Naples and Hanover it did not embrace either - - where, therefore, was the great importance and necessity of it as a - basis`?—lt surely was not worth all that it has cost. The violation - of Lord Yar-. mouth's .feelings, upon whose shoulders_ alone it is impressed, and- the length of time wasted in attempts to establish it. As to Making the French - Negotiators retra& their denial of having ever ad mitted it for a basis, nothing contd. argue such ignorance of human nature as such an endea vour.: in short; the whole of the efforts to nego tiate only proved servicable to France ; and; as far. as they were advamageous 'to France, they %-'Ol-10 detrimental to England. There were several periods at which he thought the Negotiation might hate been more beneficially broken' off than at the time- it . was * discontinued ; for example; when the basis of the zit/ eossidetis was refuied to be acknow ledged, or when, the reeports had been refused to Lord Lauderdale, ant so insulting an excuse offet'ed for the. refusal and 'delay. As to the concluCt of Lord Lauderdale, he saw nothing to blame in it; he thought there was more room to commend his forbearance than to censure his abruptness or intemperance; as to any ex:',-essiori, such as that proposed in the Amend ment of the Hot). Gentleman; he perhaps rather lamented than rejoiced at the unsu ccessful ter iaination of the Negotiation ; and that because the • present state of Europe afforded such slender hopes that any well-comb:ned etlbrt could be made to check the career and arrest the ambition of the Ruler of. France. Was there any fair prospeCt of such an event, he would' lament - that any such NegOtiation should have succeeded. Lord H. PETTY rose in reply, and principally attached himself to prdve the existence and the im portance of the basis of actual possession as obje&ed to,by Mr. Canning. The existence of it was every where to be colleaed from the replies of M. Talley rand, and its importance and utility were 'abun dantly proved by the unfair attempts made by the French Negotiators to get rid of it, when circum stances arose that seemed to justify the assumption of a favourable ground for their pretensions,—The .Noble Lord concluded by adverting to the observa tions of a Learned Gentleman (Mr. Percival), the other evening, oe what he termed artifice on the one baud, praaising on simplicity ow the other, and de fended' his Majesty's Minis_ ters from the charge of having been duped. Mr. PERCIVAL repeated his accusation of Go vernment for having been the dupes of the enemy.' He entered into an elaborate examination Of the Papers, and animadverted with severity on the pri vate correspondence . between M. Talleyrand and Mr. Fox, although he disclaimed the slightest inten7 tion of imputing corruption to the latter. Alluding of M. --Talleyrand's Letters to Mr. Fox, in to onewhich he addresses him in terms of high encomium, he said it was difficult to believe that the French Mi llister was not quizzing the English'aone. Lord HOWICK defended the memory of, his' Il lustrious Friend from what he termed the ill-timed scoffs of the Learned Gentleman. Every part of the private correspondence between Mr.-Fox and. M. Talleyrand . bad :been seen by his Majesty.-- He then - answered at considerable length the ar gpments that had been adduced against his Ma jesty's Government, and declared that as the Head of the French Government had shewn a resolution not to sheathe the sword until he had compelled the British to relinquish all connex ion-with the Conti nent, we must contend to make him abandon that resolution, or perish in the attempt. . Mr. WIIITBriEAD and Mr. Pattelyat. each said a few words in explanation. After which the Ad dress was agreed to, and ordered to be presented to, his Majesty. by such Members as belonged to his Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council. Adjourned at Half-past Five iiCleck this More-. ARit ry ED —2 •DUE--1 Gottcriburgh, 3 Waterford. THE SUN. SOLEM QUIS DICERE FALSUM AIIDEAT? L N D 0 N, TUESDAY, JANUARY 6, 1 kr a late hour last night. Foreign Journals of a very late date reached town ; but we are pre vented by the great length of the Debate from , making very full ex.tra&s from them : Indeed • the intelligence they contain is not of much importance. French Army in Poland has received some considerable reinforcements, and it is said that in a short time it will amount to 300,000 'Then. This is evidently a very gross exaggeration. The Austrian Troops, according to a Letter froth FrankfOrt, have withdrawn from Bo hemia and Moravia, and only form a slight cordon upon the frontiers of Gallicia. These Papers do not contain any account of the War which is said to 'have broken out be tween Russia and Turkey, nor do they give any intelligence respe&ing Military operations, except in the 37th and 40th Bulletins, which we .have extrataed. THIRTY-SEVENTH BULLETIN OF THE GRAND ARMY " Posen, December 2. " The following are the particulars of the Capitu lation of Fort Czenstokaw : " Six hundred men of the garrison, thirty pieces of cannon,, and some magazines, have fallen into our hands. A treasure has been found, consisting of a number ofvaluables which had been 'dedicated by the Poles to the Lidly Virgin, as the tutelary guardian of the .Country: This treasure the Emperor has ordered to be given up to the original proprienars.' " The part of the army, at Warsaw remains fully satisfied with the patriotism of the people of that City. This day the City of Posen gave a ball in honour of his Majesty, who remained present an hour. Te Delon was also performed to-day, in consequence of its being the anniversary of his Majesty's Corona tion." FORTIETH BiJLLETIN OF THE GRAND ARMY. ,"•,Pos.EN; DEC. 9.—Mashal NeY-has, passed the Vistula,'and.enterea Thorn on the 6th. He bestows particular encomiums upon Colonel SAVARY, who - , at Abe' head of the 14th, Aeginaent of infants, and the grenadiers and voltigeurs of the 96th, and the 6th light infantry, was the first to pass that river , At Thorn he came to aecion with the Pru4sianso whom, after a trifling afThir, he compelled to eva cliate the place. Some were killed, and twenty tn2clo prisoners. " This affair gave occasion to a very singular ex..- pipit. The river, coo roods in breadth, was covered with ice ; the vessel occupied by our advanced guard stuck fast and could not be moved, when a number of Polish seamen from the other side of the river evinced a disposition to venture through a shower of balls, in order to get the Vessel afloat. In this intena tion they were Opposed by some Prussian sailors, and a battle with fists ensued .between them. The P 01 45 succeeded in throwing the Prussians into the water'; and brought the French Vessel to the other side. The Emperor has inquired respelling the names of these brave fellows, .to reward them. " This day the Emperor received the deputation from Warsaw, consisting of M. GuTAKovsm,Grand Chamberlain of Lithuania, Knight or a Polish Order; GOPZENSKI, Lieut. General, and LuziNsKl,K. - inghts of the same Order ; and ALEX. PoTockl, Knight. of the Orders of St. Stanislaus and Lusweski." l' HE Debate in the House of Commons last nights on the lake Negotiation, was peculiarly interesting , Lord Howicx entered . into the • subje& with hi 9 usual ability, and gave a clear and comprehensive view of this important question, fully vindicatini, the condu& of the British Government upop irre fragable groUnds of argument and fad : be conclud ed with moving a suitable Address to His MAJES on the occasion. An Amendment was . proposes by Mr. WHITBREAD, which was negatived witholl a division. At length the original Motion for the Address was carried without a division. An intimation, we understarA, ,has been given from LLOYD'S to the' Captains'of Vessels bound to Buenos Ayres, to put into some intermediate Pori 'for information. We received yesterday Letters and Papers frool Gibraltar to the9th of,Dec. They contain no 111 , telligence of any interest. Expectations have bee' entertained at that place that the Spaniards would at" tempt to run out the five Ships of the Line and tl l6 Frigates, which are in readiness in Cadiz. Theit destination is supposed to be South America. Thir d teen RuSsian Ships of War passed up the Mediter' ranean on the 22d Qf 'November. YA:4M OP TH, J.Y. s.—The Ceres, of this _Porti t WILLIAM LAws Master, which was frozen 13P a / Christiana, arrived here yesterday, having been c 4 out out of the ice, together with 16 other Vessels. , LoNnow : Printed by R. HARRIS (of Mattlett-0 13rt, Tiow;.street), and published by W. A. ScR IPPS (of SO LD' ,v Moulton-street), at the Sun-Office, rig, Strand.