The Sun. — London, England, 1802-05-28 00:00:00

1 i rg mAN that , CE.LLOR ot - t7se EArn:EVTER said, to abefore he commented on the Speech of the t Hon. Gentle man , i n, part i cu l ar parts , h e f ore not forb ear say i ng; that the Mot i on now be 're the House was not striftly conformable. to. the oseeftation which had been formed from his n , )tiee ; t ",.c Moti on, although divested of some parts' he !Peeled t o fi n d i n it, was one .which he could not 4 ,,t this time assent to.—lf h e was b oun d to d ec id e 1 0 °: . r a gainst the Motio n , h e . should negative it, 4 -- grounds perfedly satisfadory to his own mi n d, ;4 which -he trusted would be . satisfadory to the ; ) use, after he had explained them : but as he ta a k s not bound to take that course, he shoule not it, but. h e s h oul d adopt another more conge. the 10 his f ee li ngs. The Right Honourable Gen. y el tlan had o b served there was a rumour pre 44ient, but whi c h, M r. A DD INn.TON sa id ,. never reach ed him, that there was an intention to make Grants of Land, dr . Sales of Land belonging to the p roWn in the Island , of Trinidad, mad hehad ex ritinsed an - apprehension that the cupidity of mo. ;Id4-`4 men would lead them to take advantage . of it ; Ile said, that the notice he had given at an early t; rl c4 Was conneded with this view of the subject. l% at subject, he said, that the uncleared h Land in Trinid a d .was not w i t hi n hi s contem ,tton wh en h e a ll u d e d to the advantages wh i ch b e C °untry might derive f rom G rants h er eaf ter to t h - Made. What he had said by way of notice upon subjeCl, if notice it could be called, for it was a j i:. t ed only .an allusion to some future adv.antages chi might be derived to this Country after the tan tements of the Definitive Treaty were con related,chiefly to t h e I s l an d of. St. Vincent ; ktt , that topic b e h a d only stated, generally, t h t ottle means might thence be found to alleviate PreSsure ar i s i ng f rom t h e present c h arges on th i s t n untry, by applying the proceeds of the Sale of th!ids in St. Vincent's, and other Islands 'in which h e re wa s muc h unc l ear e d Lands, by certain grants b, er Nfter to b e ma d e, under such regulations as, tlt ru n a view o f t h e c i rcumstances, m i g h t b e deemed t, -Ped ient, to the relief of the pressure of thi s Conn tr; but t h e I s l and of Trinidad was not then in his yThtemplation. 'He had !Ong felt ailiorough con itkliun, and it was strengthened by experience, that thtv's.a wisepolicy to increase, as much as possible, the White Population, and the Creole Population, b il e this had lung been the subjed of conversation or tlt i e en• hiniiatid-rhose with whom he was in habits stile utmost confidence ; and those who pos tfssei_d the best intelligence, and all the sources k nowledge by which . their understandings retenlightened upon the subject, on the particu -4? Of which h e s h ou ld not enter at present.. With I — Pea to t h e M ot i o n o f the Right Hon. Gentle r:, he would say, he was sure he spoke the senti.: 414 of several Gentlemen in the House, .with h l m'he had the pleasure to be intimate, as w e ll as when,he expressed a regret that it should tr :lltade at this' time. It was to him, a n d h e k ne W t ",, x , t 'thers, matter o f regret , t h at a propos i t i on con ti'ed 'with that of the consideration of the condi- A n : 4 9 of the Ne g r oe s in the West-Indies, sh ou ld at 116 time he agitated ; of which, h owever, h e d id li t t ) complain, since he was assu r ed, that" the Ri g h t hen. Gentleman only,brought.it forward from a sense v, l !utertained of his duty. He knew there were some th e ithought that the subject, as far as it related, to. D oh 'sli:nd of Trinid a d, m i g h t be taken as an insulated t h e 't I but that was not the way in which he viewed u nit . - übjea ; he t h oug h t it difficult to make a di s . on betwe en thi s part i cu l ar p a rt an d- t h at of the '4 e er a ) policy of .the trade carried on by means of zt a gt ,''es in the West Indies, and therefore did not ir i ol 9 Allis question could be fairly discussed . s hci ut enteri ng upon t h e genera l quest i on at large; let 'ere lie should' observe, in passing, it was mat thisq some surprise to him, that a proposition of 4fte s ort sh ou ld b e b rought forward, so recently g th r the Island came into the hands of His Majesty,. s k ieugh kkji, the general quest i on u p on t h e T ra d e , to . the proposition referred, had been allowed q, e4k e !l) for five or six y ears . H e wa s. not now ~isWith reference to those who composed Na te +sty's Exec ut i ve G overnment ; t h e y h a d Oa t " abund ant occupation of their time through. th at . Ivhole of it; but more . especially • for toltrPrt of it in w hi c h concerns o f t h e most '''at t r' e ated, as well as of the most weighty ref t e were under their care ; but he spoke with %a . , e t nc e to others, who, if the Right Hon. ed .elnan was right in his proposition, had staffer_ tiod:ue.ir humanity to sleep; during all which pe talci Importations of Negroes into MartiniqUe, Sr. Pa ye e ' Demerara, Issequibo, and Berbice, took tioli Un restrained, but the effect of which unques tf t a k b , l Y Was, to add to the Revenue and Commerce the"ts Country, and enrich the Plantations, but qetati v antages, which to us must have been con_ taaPd as only temporary, as was evinced from the tiations at Li s l e , are lik e l y to b e t h e per %lle.nt benefit o n ly o f t h ose w h o have always been tti nt ri vals in t i me o f Peace, and for the two l as t et ieh. e!ts in w hi ch we had been engaged, our greatest tl le . ' l cs in t i me o f War. But, however, he thought ta e roach whi c h some persons had thought at- Sl 4v e d to the House of Comm Ons on account of the ti one e Trade from the Coast of Africa, was entirely a way by the circu mstances w hi c h had taken / ) ,, 0 e, during the period to which he alluded. The ao:o,3ition of th e Ri g h t H onourable Gentleman keild°efore the H ouse, brought with it nb recom- Afri:ti°ns eithe r , t o t h ose who thought that the " Trad e oug h t to be immediately or gra ahle Y_ aboli s h ed, for it was nor essential)}'favour tht 1 1.? eith er under the present state of things in 'tta.,"est Indies. The Hou se declared, that the'Slave thit4e should he abolished by g ra d ua l mean s, an d- if JroPosition ranked under that general principle, bihi ch uu i ld not opp ose i t, t h at was a proceeding- to tipl e , was a party, and he adhered to the prin_ f 1 1 4414 measure ;it was one to wh i ch ' the Parlbunerit was pledged : but this measure o )it 2 tend e , cy towards 'the accomplishment of that And here he could not help observing, that .Itooking ti me h the circumstances - of the time t t fie v ote of the House passed, looking to that rnourrence of extraordinary circumstances ate 2 4 taken place since, and had uniformly o pen. Ils'l;a'ttriog th e w h ole period from that time to this, Iv t4 en t s rl ii n o d t , tosay; th at rea ll y and 'truly, Parlia_ orld h _ on torfetted any pledge it made to the up t t his subjed. He meant .the substance , of the pledge of Parliament is it itras really and 3 , ,va fide made, was not forfeited ; nor was the present Motion calculated to support the priucip!e of that pledge, which was. neither more Or. kis than this, " That the Slave Trade should be lira.. dually abolished." He did not consider the faith of - Parliament to be pledged, as to the time when this should be done.; it was true, indeed, that Par. liament had stated a time when this would take . place, but: it was to take place by certain meats, in which means the views of Parliament were in: terrupted. It would appear. by the Resolution, voting the gradual Abolition, that it was to be accompliShed by certain regulations of th.t Trade itself, by introducing a new ',system into the West Indies ; and then, upon the supposition' that such system would be adopted, Parliament had voted that the Slave Trade from the Coast' would be abo liAlled in the year 5797 ; but as the system by which this abolition was to be accomplished was not intro duced, the effect was not produced, nor could it be expected to be produced, and therefore in reality Parliament had not forfeited its pledge to the Pub lic for the Abolition of this Trade at a period now passed. He did not see that the Motion now before the House had a tendency to further this ()Nett, for it did not follow that the Slave Trade would be abolished, or.even lessened, by confining a vote to the Island of Trinidad, and therefore he . did not see any reason for assenting to it, even upon the prin.. ciple of. the Right Hon. Gentleman himself who in- , troduced it. He was ready„to admit that Gentlemen had a right to advert to the principle on which the vote for the gradUal Abolition of the Slave Trade_ was founded, and .to call on others to say why they, did not adopt measures for cat rying that principle in-, ' to effect. He was ready to say that pleasures ought to he adopted for that purpose, but he contended that this measure was not calculated to produce that ef feet ; for there was no truth .more deeply impressed upon his minti than this, that an attempt to prevent., Negroes being imported Irons the Coast of Africa into the Island of Trinidad, would he only to in sure the carrying on of the Trade in other quar ters, in other settlements, and would be the means of increasing those practices which it had been the policy of this Country to avoid. What he- meant was this ; there would be a consider; able increased demand for the produce of the West Indies, even more than had been the case for the last nine years. The, produ . Ctive pow_ ers of St. Domingo had long been in abeyance. The demand of the Continent would now be more than the present powers of supply of the West In dies could furnish, that must of necessity produce fresh cultivation. During the last eight or nine years, every thing in the way of trade, in this respect, was .carried on by British Capital, and British Enterprize, almost exclusively, and the ef feCt of this on our Commerce; and also on our Ma ritime strength, was highly favourable to use— British Capital and British Enterprize were so great, that they would extend to all the Islands belonging to Foreign Governments, as well as to our owne as it had been. It was said by the Right- Hon. Oentle, man, .that the-Markets were glutted of Sugars, arc. But it was to be considered that France and Holland had long been waiting in hopes 'of receiving supplies from their 9wn Islands. They would want more than they could have from that source. In that : state . of things what was the condition of . our MeichantS ? , They . had been looking With impatience for- 'an opportunity of carrying their supplies to - the Con tinent ; there had not been a channel for. our. West India produce a great while by way of Hamburgh, but it did not follow that the demands for this pro duce, would cease now—on the contrary.their minds would increase, and then our warehouses would find a vent, so that the glut which the Right Hon. Gentleman apprehended, would be done away. Why then, he would ask the House; if it be'true that in the present state of the World, an increased supply of all markets with West India produce be to be produced only by British capital and British enter prize, whether it would be wise to adopt this motion now, or whether it was likely to contribute to the gradual Abolition oftheSiaveTrade, to enterinto this premature check upon the cultivation of the Island of Trinidad. With a view to the,iradual Abolition of the Slave Trade, the only view in which he could support it, this measure woullaaually do nothing. —He said, he objected to the applicatiOnof any principle whatever, for the grad'ual Abolition of the African Slave'Trade,' that did not apply itself to the whole of the_ West India. Islands.: he objected to it on this ground, that it was imperf,.-C1 in its nature, and could not do any good in the discussion. The Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed an earnest wish that means should be adopted for the in. crease of the population of Whites and Creoles in the West Indies : did he apprehend it possible to accomplish this objea - by the proposition now before the House? Did he not apprehend there would be great' difficulties in making arrangements for persons who had been fixed a great while at Trinidad, and others who might recently have arrived there ? Besidei Negroes might be brought to Trinidad from Barba_ does, St. Vincent, Monserrat, or other places, and it would be impossible to distinguish between them and those,who may have been on the Island 'for some time previous to their importation. But there was another objeaion to the proposition now before the House; tht effect of it would be to call fbr Negroes from the different West India Islands to Trinidad ; because,- without their assistance, it would be im possible to carry on 'the necessary trade there ; and it would create a chasm- in those Islands,. which could not be supplied but by means of fresh im portations from the Coast of Africa ; therefore the discouragement of importations to Trinidad alone, would not answer the purpose the Right Hon. Gentleman professed to have in view ; for, unless he could discourage importation into'all the Islands, - it was useleSs to prohibit it in only one. *pose it was effectually prohibited at Trinidad, what•se curity could there be, that the chasm which would be created by bringing Negroes from other Islands into Trinidad, and which could not be prohibited by the present Motion, nor indeed, by any other that could be entertained in that House, would not be supplied ..by. fresh. importation's into such Islands ? And then he would ask,, what would be the benefit - of such a measure 'as this ? It might be asked, whether, according to the view which ire .entertained of this subject, lie should wiRll trj I promote an importatiokof,Negrots'artorthe of T rinidad ?„,. He hoped he.had ausive red that dues_ ,ion already, he could only say, that upon every . principle he had ever . entertained or expressed in that House, from every sentiment of his mind, and every consideration the most .grave he:could bestow upon it, from every thing that connected itself with the policy of this Country, he was led to say, that neither into the' Island of Trinidad or any other Nand or Settlement belonging to His Majesty, ought there to be any unlimited importation of ire_ groes. He might ire asked what restridions he had in view, to which he ,would _answer, not such as were, applicable to Trinidad alone, but that the true policy of this country, extended' to a consideration of all the Islands. In a -large, and comprehensive view, it was -the substance - of his opinion upon that subjed, into wbich, for va.: rious.. reasons, he would, declioe to enter mi nutely ; for, indeed, he was much indisposed for . public speaking at present. It was his wish to be unde.rstood,(but be : was unwilling to give any pledge), as entertaining a hope, that the sobjed of the Slave Trade-atill be taken up in the course -of the next Session of Parliament, and considered, deliberately upon the, principles on which a large majority of that House have agreed, and he trusted, will again agree, to a gradual Abolition of that traf fic ; but, this he wished to he preceded by an in . qoiry instituted by that House, and adapted, as as suredly it would be (if ordered, by, that House), to its objed,_ and which would be pursued, •he had no doubt, in a manner consistent with the true "interests of this Country, for which the House bad often expressed, and never, failed to feel, the utmost anxiety. The Right Honour_ able Gentleman had stated, that the importation of Negroes into Trinidad,, for the purpose of keeping it in, a state of cultivation, as he said, would re quire zeo,ooo Negroes every year, and he took it from a-leference_to information which he had intro duced before. Now, Mr. ADLIINGTON said he had great .satisfadion in staring .eo the HOuSe; according to the best information received by His Majesty's Government, that such an imPortation would by no means be the effect of countenancing the principle against which the Right Hon. Gentle-- man had spoken so' much at large ; the truth was, that the Island of Trinidad was different from all the rest ; it was stated to him in Letters, which be had'from the High e st au . Thority, , such as he could With safety rely on, that with half the number of • hands, the 'cultivated produceof the Island was double to that of ..any other ; and -in the Island of Trinidad, the labour -of forty Negroes would be more than equal to that of too in any other Island, except Jamaica ; that the quantity and quality of the produce of Trinidad was superior to thiit of any other. That in the first instance, t h e c a nes y i e ld e d sugar of the best quality, and that it was not neces sary to go through the same laliourin the culture there as in 'any other Island. That his infoinia tion he :received from . persons who were " well qualified to form a corred opinion upon the subject, and to justify his assertions, he read Extracts from several Letters received from persons of the highest charade'', corroboiating that allegation ; : and ob, served, that : he felt great satisfaction in contem_ plating this, because he thought he saw in ir, the means of much increase to the -Commerce, the Wealth, and the Prosperity of this Country,•capable of being produced without the waste of human beings, or the intolerable burden of human labour. —He then proceeded to observe, that the descrip tion which he had received of the peculiar advan- Jages of. the Island of Trinidad, had rendered the matter particularly interesting, so much so, that His Majesty's Government had determined; some time since, to send forth a CommissiOn for the pur pose of .making a minute survey, (not merely a Geographical Survey, Or thut was" already made), but. for (he purpose of acquiring all the information which, in a politicA point of view, :could render that subject interesting to this Country. This task had devolved or, men of, great talents;of enlightened minds; men who were, from theirhabits, -particularly conversant on the subject on which they' were employed ; and whose opinion, after they had- enriched their minds with the infor mation which they now lotiked for, would be ea aremely valuable. They were_to make their report upon thesolijed e and by which report. His Males. ty's Government would necessarily and very fitly,be Considerably guided. The House would be aware, that no grants had been made up to - the period when . the last accounts upon the subject were laid before the House. The House would he aware also, that. positive orders were sent by Governo - fent that no new Grants or Sales of Land in Trinidad should take place without'further authority. He luiped that C ery public encouragement would be given to ,the pOpu lation of the - Whites and Cfeoles,and he cOul&add, that it was the determination of His Majesty's Mini sters to advise His Majesty not to make any grante of land, except' for the purpose of providing the means tUwhich he had alluded, until after the Re port shall have.been made by those Commissioners. He was unwilling' to hold out any thing like a pledge to the House which might afterwards produce disappointment ;—but he would submit to the House, whether it Was possible that a' Commission should go from hence for . the.purpose of making all necessary inquirieS,. into this subjea, and“ yet that the. House would come to a deciSion upon' it without having the Report ,of such. Commissioners ? I-it apprehended that Parliament would not enter on „the discussion of such a • subjeti as this be fore the result of that Commission was before it. IThat result, if the House would be pleased,to wait, should be laid before the House, with the reservation only of some possible observations being included in the Report, that had no bearing on the subject of the cultivation Of. the Island— Upon this he was to be understood as. makingno:pledge on tho•behalf of theli'..xecutive Govetrimimt, that the Report should be laid before. Parliament immediately on its being received by these Gentlemen ;. for it.was possible that it. ;might .be received. some time -before His Maiesty should resort again to the wisdom of. his Parliament. He :could not. be expetted. to pledge hiMself to lay before,the. House any plan upon this subjea, as arising out of li.e.•.Report of the'Com . - _ missioners, but ,he pledged himself, either, to lay before Cie . House. his .tiis. upon the subjeCt, or What h •! - tould silt . .e;•l4uch bette4' to concur . with some other • person it -bringing the ! itib.. jcet before the. House. . He owned he should like 16 see. this subjeft in the ablest hands. He should I !Ike to- concur in a proposition that might he made with ,a view to a regulation, not- -of 'the Island of Trinidad, or of any other Island, but applicable to all our Islands in the West Indies. But,. in the mean. time, he wished the whole, of the subject to be considered carefully, as most assuredly it would; by , 1 the Committee to which he' had alluded, by which the true interest of this Country, in a large scale, embracing the whole -of the \Vest India Trade, might k• adequately considered. They would form an Opinion upon that subject, after which he should like to see a Committee of that House appointed to take into emisideration the whole of the African Slave Trade, by which means he trusted more could be done in thiS important, subject than had eveuet been.dont. Having said this, he must be allowed to. say, he felt the inconvenience, lie was afraid he fyre. saw the mischief which the s e p art i a l di scus sions of this important .subject must 'produce--..'Whey created uncertainty on matters in' which it was extremely important thae the minds-of the people should be at rest. Fle. did not think the minds of the people were likely' to. be quieted by any thing that with' be the result of these agitations. No step was taken towards the attainment .of the 'great, oh_ jet: which all had . in view, by Motions like these, because the .subjed "could never be de_ termined advantageously by a piece,aneal discus sion of it-41)r which reason he wished to have eit considered altogether, and in that hope, and that none of theeviis_which the Right 'honourable Gentleman apprehended would arise from a short delay of the consideration of this sul?jed, he thought it right to conclude with moving the previous ques. tion. But there was one point which he thotight right to state, and which .he had hitherto admitted, which was, that whatever Grants might take place in the Island of Trinidad, none would have the ef_ feet of discouraging -the population -of Whites or :Creoles, nor. should any Grants be made that. would enable the Grantee's to set ur any claims On their. part that would exclude -Parliament from doing any thing which to its wisdom or dis cretiOni shbuld seem meet,—Undet these circum-, stances, he hoped the Right Honourable Gentleman • would be convinced there were good reasons stated. why.the House should not agree to his He hoped the House ,was also convinced ftere—iVas a disposition on the part of His Majesty's Govern ment to ael up to. their professions upon thiS sub. jeCt.He was ready to declare, that no considera .tion whatever either had, or he believed, would alter the opinion he had of the 'principle of die Re-, solution of 17'92,; 'that he certainly approved, nor r was he now doing any thing inconsistent with that Resolution, by the course he was pursuing—Ais ob jeet was the gradual Abolition of the Slave Trade; but that wasnot - 4a be accomplished by this motion, not tw any motion which took up the subjea by piece. meal. He witilied:the subjea to be teken up on a large scale, that a general view of it should take place ; 'that the information of .the Commissioners should be had by Government; that information laid before' Parliament, and then the whole general question considered . in: its most expanded state, to which purpose this motion was not adapted. It was at least a premature motion, since it preceded requisite information - . Knowing there would be no danger from the delay of this subject' until the next Session— Knowing that at present proper materials were not before the House to judge of it, and being aware that Parliament, would have an opportunity of deli_ vering its cipiniori upon it early in the next Sessions, he should now move the previous question. Mr.. CANNING said, if the 'Right Hon. Gen tleman had:only made the fast half of his speech, he would have consented to withdraw his Motion ;, as it was, however, with all, the assurances and pledges which had been given on the Bart of His Majesty's Ministers, he _should not press the question to a de. cision; It was a great eensolation, that after the expetience of twelve yeir.to no purpose, : they were now taught to look forward to a settlement of the great moral and religious question involvediti the consideration of the Slave Trade, aided by the :zealot's attention of His Majesty's goveriimznti- He wished, however, I . `rlotion to stand upon the Journals, and the House would therefore pose of it as they pkased:' General G AkbY NE 'rose to ,make a •few .ob servations,: but the House, were so impatient for the question, that it was not possible to coiled . his iean i 1117-:IVILRERFORCE then rose, • but the same indisposition on the part nif•the'House ther discussion. of the .subjea, still, in a great mea. sure, continued. Having at lerigth''obtained some attention, he said, he could not entertain-any very sanguine hope with respel 'to what had been urged by his Right Hon. Friend, as they all remembered, what had been said and done in that . House relati v e to the Slave Trade ; he hoped, however,. his Right lion:-Fri€nd would be disposed to take it in ..the; same point of view .as in the year 1792.. It was, well known, that the expeffition of the abolition _ _ • of the Slave Trade caused .a great additional im..' portation 'of Slaves' in the 'interval'. Wa's it not possible to carry -into effea some measure. for. Ihg. purpo.e . of preventing that, excessive importation ? This he thought was called fcir by Humanity, and' by the interest of the Islands' themselveS too certain that the' British importation of Slaves, had considerably increased during the last year. One great argument urged against the abolition of the Slive Trade, when that subject was before the House at a former period, was, that if we abolish.. ed it, other Nations would still carry it on, and British capital would be in consequence transferred to the Colonies of other tou‘ntries. This argument could nod be said to be weakened by - : what had fate* ly happened. General QASCOY NE spoke to Order. The Hon. - 'Gentleman, he said, was .going into the question , of the abolition of the Slave Trade,' whiCh was not 1 before the House-. Mr.' WILBERFORCEsaia, -it vins obvious thit the objet of the Motion was to prevent the iar portation of Slaves into Trinidad it we could en• ter into an agreement with Foreign Powers, bt which an abolition might be efFened • • General ASCOY NE, agatn. called to Order, an