The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1822-05-02 00:00:00

plats, to bring it onder the consideration of the House, io the first instance. It might ,hi asked, " Why did not the Chancellor of the efuliter take it on himself to make a bargain, amt.' then bring the terms of she bJrgsin which he ion* have concluded under the consideration of Rehire rata. ?" His answer was, that the subject was one ..po Duvet a description in its nature, so muck oat of the ordinary channel in which the finest. coat operations of the country had hitherto beta conducted, that he did not think himsett" authorised to enter into a bargain of that kind s until the House had given it a general sanciion. by assenting to the - princ iple of the measure. The ptan which he wits now about to propose, was mai • separate and detached part of the whole sistement of his Noble Friend. It involved no consideration whatever of the important question of the currency of the country, respeciiiio which he had • communication to make, nor with another spsestiou, on which he was not yet prepared to make any communication, though he expected to be so prepared in the course of a few days, be meant the niodificatiots of the charter of the Bank. The simple question which he had now to propose to their consideration was, how far the sum annually voted by Parliament for the payment of the various annuities granted as compensations end allowances for services in the army and navy, and certain civil superannuation., might be considered in the nature of public debt, and, if it were so considered, whe ther it might not be commuted for a fixed and per marmot charge of • smaller annual amount for a determined period. He apprehended there could be no doubt that the party who had spent • great part of his life in the naval or nillitsry service of the country, had acquired, subject to the regula tion* of the service and the pleasure of the Crown as to the continuance of his appointment, • title to the pension which, by the rules of the service, was allotted in the rank he held, and the period for which he had served, as complete as that of the public creditor to his annuity for the money which he had advanced. In other countries this species of charge was completely recognised as a part of the public debt; iu France particularly it was so much au as to be provided for tinder the herd of the charge foe the public debt. He wiesed to leave the whole of the regulation of the several claims to these pen.iena entirely as it now stood; and not to make any alteration either in the suture of the claims, the regulations to which they were subject, or the mode of payment; neither would he alter the right of the parties to exchange from half to foil pay. It might be proper it, state particu larly the epos of pensions which the commutation Was intended to comprehend. lie meant it to comprehend the whole of the naval and military pensions, and the superannuation allowances for civil services which were now payable. The pensions which he proposed to exclude from the arrangement were those chargeable on the con solidated fund, amounting to from 4 to 500,000!. which consisted of allowances made to the Royal and other illustrious persona, by Parlia mentary grants, for enabling them to maintain with becoming splendour the rank to which they had been raked as • reward for their public services: He would also exclude the peasions on theatre! and the 4} per cent. duties. The sums, therefore, which he had to bring under the consideratioo of , the Committee, amounted in the whole to about 5,000,000/. ■ year. subject to gradual reduction by the death of the parties. Appended to the printed copy of the Resolutions which was iu the hands of Membere, was a table s slowing nearly what was the variation that might be expected to take place in the event of these peusioue in eaFh successive year, calculated on the general principle by which life aunuities were its general calculated. That estimate was fouodel ou an average of 15,000; lives, being about a fourth part of the number of ffersons receiving pensions, the whole number at, present somewhat exceeding 60,000. Besides its character of debt, therefore, this charge formed a species of annnity 'mooning at present to 4,000,0001. subject to a year's decrease, in the pro portion set forth in that table. The calculation extended only to the term of 45 years; some of tbe lives might certainly be prolonged beyond the ave rage length, but according ,to the general appear. once of plobebilities, the amount might be ex pected at the end of 45 years to be reduced to a small sum exceeding 300,000/. It was by nu means essential either for the individuals who might be interested on the one side, or for the public on the other, that the calculatitnir should be minutely cor rect; general correctness was all that could be re quired. It might be objected perhaps that by com muting this charge into as equal annual annuity ; a vested interest would be given to the parties who .contricted, which the holders of the pensions did not now by law possess. But it should be observed op the other hand, that the contract was liable to the greatest possible uncertainty, from the contin siepcies which were likely to arise to the disadvan tage of the contractor, for which no consideration r e, made in the formation of the contract. The proposition which he Should make was, that a sum should be given by Psi liameut as a fixed annuity to such persona as may be willing to contract fur the payment of the pensions he had mentioned, for the term of forty-flve years. Whether this pro position were adopted, by which the charge would determine at the period he had mentioned, or who teer the Committee should prefer to recommend the extinction of it by permanent annuities, subject to redemption, under the provision required by the Act of 4211 Geo. 111. cap. 55, he spprehended the plan would stood wholly clear of the existing sinking fund. Another circunastmice to be consi dered was the extent of the charge to be provided for winch had arisen out of the exirsordivary cir somsiances attendant upon the long duration and exteo4d exertions of the late war. The Reedit lion stated that presto°, to the commencemeitt of the late war, the amount of this charge did not exceed 650,0001, as appeared from the Report of the ?silence Committee. That sum was now in creased to 5,000,000!., partly by the enormous extent to which the naval mud military service, of the country were carried during the war, and partly by regulations ! which bud placed the allow. suces on a wore, liberal footing thou that in which the:y'roteterll 4,04.. The preseusseale of pensions to Privatesolafersirei islitsno entirely new since the wriod firstetentionetc 1?i!I been adopted by the wiodorii aprilibeiality of Porlianynt, to reward that class of personator %belt seance, and also as a . staelus to the . .more effectual rattrulting of the arrtiy. 4 groulittre fry the widow of Parharrient here after to consieler whether those eettahitsois might not be witodified. Whatever was dime, holietrer, that way, must lise prospective in itolsperaffen, still • keeping in view justice and liberality 16,oxistisig claims. The Committee would are that any minute calculations or details us 'to the terms of the proposed contract, could not as yet be perfect, nor would it be proper as yet to exhibit them. Many explanations would remain to be made . with 'parties proposing to contract, and it was neces- eery that the secret of Government on that subject should be preset ved until the contract was concluded, and in a situation to be laid before P a rliame n t, After the grnersl observations which he had felt it his dill to cff-r, he was not aware of any thing far... ther ulna it was necessary fur him to add. tie was not aware of any objection that could be offered to the proposed arrangement ; the principle of the measure was in itself just, and he trusted in its' hp. plicrtion wituld prove highly beneficial to the • country. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving the following Resolutions :- 1. That it is the opinion of this Committee, that the aasusat of military and snivel pension., and civil superao. ovations, may he edisnated at about 5000,0001 2. That it is the upiuiou of this Committee, that thiamin.. '-waleulated as an annuity guaranteed by Parliament, may ha considered as a burden, forming a, charge upon the public income of the country, fur the lives of the annuitants, sub ject in sock regulatious as are applicable we each ease. 3. That it is the opinion of olds Committee, that the amount of this charge has been increased, print-welly by the long dorsi ion and extended exertiotss of the tate war. /rum the sum of about 630,00.0/. to the said sum of 1000.0001 4. That it is she opinion of this Consinitwe, that under this great accumulation of annual charge, sod is the pre seat aisle of the roomier, it is expedient to make provision for apportioning this hordes) so se to ensure its Anal extinc this, either by an equal annual 'tinnily, terminable within 46 years, or by permatieot anouities limb arch provision fur the repayaneut thereof as is requind by the Act 21 Geo. 111. e. b. That it is the °pitiless of I his ConarilMO4l.4loll the Cuts missioners of his Majeety'a Trtaauqyaiddilli keel , sod COll. tract (subject to the approlsation of 4116§11461N4) with arch bodies politic and corporate, or other ponnies, ea may be led liag to undertake to provide fir the charge of the above. mentioned pensions end allowances, ere say part thereof, in either of the above modes; sad who shall give adequate security for the performasee of suck undertakiug. Colonel DAVIES said, that in the present stage of the business, the plan of the Right Hon. Gentle man was so difficult to be understood, that he (Colonel Davies) (night be wrong in the view which he took of the subject. At prevent, however, he we, far from giving it his entire approbation. His first objection to it was, that it appeared to be no thing hut a covert attack on the sinking fund— (Hear !)—a mere attempt to relieve ourselves at the expense of posterity. The calculator,' of the Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to be founded on probable contingencies by death alone, without any allowance fur change by war or promotion. A person of the rank of Ensign, receiving a pen sion, might hereafter be gradually promoted to that of Lieutenant-Colonel, would he in that case conti nue to receive the amount of his pentiou as au En sign only, or would it he increased with his rank ? Judging merely from the result of the total amount of the pensions to he paid in each year, according to the table alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentle 7 man, as composed with site amount of the suns to be paid to the contractors, according to the Noble Lord's supposition, of 11,800.0001. is year, for the period of 45 years, he thought the public would lose considerably, instead or gaiuii.g by the trim-action. It appeared that for the lino 15 years of the term, the tutu! of the pensions which she contractors woald have to pay world be 63.058.0001. while the public would pry to them 42.000,0001., whereby the pub lic would gain g 1,000,000/.. But for the occond period, from the 16th to the 45th year, the con tractors would pay according to the table 39,600,000/. while they would receive from the public 84.000,000/. being a loss to the public of 44,400,0001. oil that period, sod on site whole trilissaction, of 23,400,000/. minus only the interest on the amount saved in the first period.—(Gear.) Mr. BRIGHT said he had heard the statements of the Chancellor of the Exchequer with great sur prise. The Right lion. Gentleman said. the an nouncement of this measure bad excited a lively interest in the country ; the litsie of the House how. ever, sliewed,that but little interest was there taken in the scheme, e'en by those who might be expected to be most deeply effected by it. He hoped it would nut go forth to the House mud the co 1111 l ty, on the bare statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as a saying to the country. It stood in the place of all effectual saving. Something, indeed, riiiebt he saved in the present amount of the taxes, but the country would pay dearly in the long-run fur what was so tared. It was clear to him that for a speculation which would only begin to be benefi ciul to the contractor at the end of sixteen years, • large remuneration must be given. No man would otherwise undertake a speculation for so re. mote a prosprctof gaits. If the House agreed to theft rerolutinns, Awing the amount of the @operant's'''. tionsiond pensions at 5 000,000/. it could never agaiu review those superaormations to see how far they were properly grouted. He trusted, therefore, that the House would reject the resolutioos, and he should certeioly oppose the measure in this stage. Sir J. NEWTORT said, the plan now proposed operated on I principle directly opposite to that of the sinking fund. Hillis scheme which the ChMs. cellar of the Exchequer had very properly charac terised as octet' its its nature, were adopted, he' should wish the Committee to consider whether it would not be better that the Commissioners fur the reduction of the national debt should be allowed to act as the contractors, by which mama the profit, tf any, would ultimately he gained by the public. A large remuneration would undoubtedly be expected by any contrac tor who might be disposed to etubark iu the sprculatim ; and the plan was in principle a re duction to the extent of the sum annually paid to the contractor. He agreed with the Hon. Member for Bristol, in hoping that it would not draw off the public •tteutiou from inquiry into the State of the revenue and expenditure, which would be greatly perpolicial to the public interests. Mr. BRAIANORT said, so far as the measure might tend to diviert the public attention from the recructinn of the expenditure, he was inclined to (hutted from it; but he considered it as a benefit. as far as it wtsut to the relief of the tstatioo. Ile ' GOP Itl .not reconcile it its consistency with the prin. ciplu of the sinking fund ; but he should be better . . ...., pleated.if that ineatandthey 4 all 110 IS to take, away the sinking fund altogethaL •• . • Mr. .1. MARTIIIr attributed the prettiest measure to the determination of Ministers to keep up the two Postmasters-General and other unnecessary offices. to maintain the influence of the Crown in that H011 , 44'. He thought a sinking fund of 5,000.0001. necessary, and thinking the present measure opposed to the principle of that fund, he felt it his duty to give it every opposition in his ..... . power. Mr. H. GURRItY said the present scheme must enhill it love to the public equal to the profit which it would give in the contractors. He was one of those who thought no relief from taxation could give any immediate relief from the instant and pressing distress which the country was suffering. He considered this as a scheme 1.. support • fat- Jacious oinking fund, which the Noble Lord proposed to make more fallacious by tying it up to accu mulate at compound interest, in order that some 'future Munster might Hite on it, as had been done 'with the former sinking fund. if the Noble Lord .found himself obhged to give up 2,000,0001. of taxes, it would be better and more economically done by taking it at once from the sinking fund. Mr. T. W t LSON supported the plan. Mr. RICARDO said, after all the declaralinno of Ministers about the staking fund, this was neither more nor tell than a measure for taking away 2.500,000/. from it; and he was eptotii.hed that the [tight Him. Gentleman, who porsessed such a regard for the sinking fund, should say that this plan did not touch it. If to relieve taxation they took 2.500,000/. from the sii.kiag fond, let them com pare the oituation they would be in at the end of 45 years, with that in which this measure would place them. In both cases the object would be gained, and would be a saving of 2,500,000/. a year in taxes. He would ask the Right Ho nourable Genilemsu to give • distinct answer to this proposition ; whether at the end of 45 years this measure would not leave him more io debt than he would be it lie immediately took from the sink ing fund 2,500,000/. If that proposition were controverted, he could undertake to prove it ; and if true, was it not as invasion of the stoking fund ? This charge was a part of tile debt th•tt citified a sinking food along with it. The sole intention of a sinkiiig fund was to bring all the debt into the situation of this particular debt, of being gradually extinguished within a given period. The present ;Asir went to prolong the exiotence of this debt, mid seas neither more nor less thau to take 2,500,000/. from the sinking fund. Mr. Huseissox said; Ms Right Hon. Friend was not disposed to deny that this charge was a debt which carried its owu sinking fund along with it. He dettird, however, that the plait now pro posed was any invasion of the provisions of the Act of 179'2, by which the Principle of she sinking Nod was regulated. The effect of the plan, was to Convert the charge into annuities for • term of years, instead of determinable by the death of the parties as at present. If all the sums boriowed for the carrying on of the hot war had been raised on annuities for forty-five years, we should have hail large annuities to pey during that term, but then we should be relieved from the lengthened operation or the 1 per cent. sinking fund. The measure was entirely one of expediency, which we are quite at liberty to adopt. it was iii no sense an invasion of the sinking fund. The surplus of 5,000,000/. would still remain untouched, and applicable solely to the reduction of the debt. He admitted that by the present measure we are gain ing present relief at some little expellee to posterity. But he risme() that even the sinking fund was solely intended for the benefit of posterity. He did not look to the sinking fund as an advantage to the public creditor, so much as lie did with reference to the means of facilitating such an operation as that which had been performed in the present Ses sion in the reduction of the navy five per cents.; and he would put it to the Gentlemen opposite, whether if the sinking fund had been entirely taken away, as proposed by them some years ago, it would have been possible to reduce the interest on so large • portion of stock. The Hon. Member for Bristol (Mr. Bright) had misunderstood the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or he never could have viewed this measure as removing the charge which • was the object of the arrangement beyond the COO. trol of Parliament. His Right Ron. Friend had (bouncily stated, that it would still tie left ni its ex , iiiirg state n with respect to all the regulations to which it was subject. Ale. BRIGHT said, he would still maintain that after the adoption of the Resolutions now before the Committee, it would be extremely difficult for the House to canvass the merits of the giants of these pensiocs as heretofore. lie had au idea that the money market would give more than its worth, hut he was apprehensive that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer would be apt to sell it fur lees than the value. Mr. HUsatssots explained. Mr. Hums said he did not think he completely understood what were the intentions or (lover ))))) cid, notwithstandiug all the discussiori which had takru place, fur hr could not yet comprehend bow the "dead weight," of which the Noble Marquis spoke, had any thing to do with the question helore the House. The resolution might have stated that there was I certain annual charge on the revenue which it would be proper to spread over a period of 45 y e ars, and then hr could have understood what was meant, but the resolutions proposed he considered expressly 'calculated to hide the real nature of the transaction, which was supply a loan sun long annuities. The Right Hou. Gentleman (Mr. fluskisson) had not anawered any of the arguments of his Honourable Friend, the Member for Portal lington, but he had spoken of the expediency of the measure. The only expedieucy to which he (Mr. Howe) could look, wits economy, and be should support that Yhi's' which would give th e grea t es t re l ie f at t h e east expense. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had experience of the difficulty there was in wak. Mg the public deal with a new stock in the case of the 3i per ceuts. which he had crested, and yet he Dew proposes a plan, which, in his own words, was " novel mid extraordinary." No attempt had been made to answer the Right Hots. thiroriet's (in John Newport) question, ut why the Coniniiiiinuticrs of the coking fund could not become the contractora. When theauggestion of his Hon. Friend, the Mein bar lot Powys), was et length attended to, and half of s loan taro by theCounnissioners of the sinking fund, a sash* td the public cit•nearly lions was the revolt. The Hiss. Member recalled to the recollection of the Committee the appeal which, at the toneasencement .of the Session, the Noble Mari*. opposite bad made in behalf of the sulking fund ; yet he now came down with n mea sure. the intent of which was to lay a burden upon posterity. Not that he quarrelled with the propo. Bitten on that account—he was anxious that the peo ple should be relieved, and all that he desired was that it should be dune at the least expense. With respect to the sinking fund, it was his opinion, thst •if during the war we bad had none, the country would have been many millions less in debt than it now was. Ii he had had the documents which he moved for, he would have demonstrated that we should have been less in debt by 33 millions at least. The present plan was, he conceived, intended to keep from the public the real state of our ac counts. It was meting on conflicting principles; for here was, on the one hand, a soothing fund by which we bore present burdens for the sake of re lieving posterity ; and, on the other hand, the plan now introduced was too relieve ourselves, and throw the burden upon posterity. lie hoped that what ever plan should he ultimately adopted, it would be open to public competition, and that no private favour or partiality would have place, and then it would be a mere 'flatterer calculation ; and on this point lie could not but censure the Noble Marquis (if he understood the matter) for having made any mention of lives, which had, in fact, nothing to do with it. It was a certain sum to be raised on an nuities. and he wished the Committee perfectly to understand that half pay pensions had nothing to do with it. He (Mr. Hume) did not object to the intention of spreading at prevent large disbursement over future years, but it was to the delusion he objected ; and he also should wish. as the cheapest mode, that it should be taken from the *hiking fund. The Marquis of LOWD4NDIIRRY was quite as. tonnhed at the change of .sentiment which had taken place on the other side of the House; from declaring the sinking fund worse than useless, Hon. Gentlemen had now risen up as warm pro teeters of it. He did not conceive that the present was the slightest infraction of the sink ing fund. The only proposition which has been made respecting it from that side of the House was, to tie up the five millions of which it at present consisted, fur ten years, to accumulate at compound interest, instead of at simple interest, and that surely could not be deemed any infraction of it. Here was a charge on the income of the country of five millions, and in one sense might be suad to be • debt, but it was a debt covered by a substantial solid revenue. The mere que.tion was, whether it was better for the public to have the advantage in the order that the lives dropped off, or recording to au average principle? And could any Hon. Member say that this would at all affect the sinking fund. We were thus not taking all the advantage io the beginning, but making an arrangement to divide the advantage with posterity. He thought, there fore, that we had nothing to reproach ourselves with as it reprded posterity. The HIM. Member (Mr. Hume) asks, what hod this to do with the dead expense of the country ? He (Lord Lon donderiy) had explained on a former occasion, the grounds oo which he considered this as differing from the ordinary service of the year. He had stated it to he an expense, sal genera', growing out of a war of unparalleled magnitude, and that therefore it could not be supposed so large a charge of such s nature would again occur. But, said the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, what has lives to do with it They went to the lives for the purpose of 'mowing what was the probable sum that would be wanted iii the next year, and then make the contract ac cordingly. While they were thus tying up five tnilliona at compound interest as against the 800,000,000/. of debt, he certainly did not think it necessary to take the whole dead weight upon our selves, and particularly as coining from the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, who had thus started up as champions of the .sinking fund ; he for his part begged leave to decline the alliance ; whether holy or unholy, he was deternitued to have nothing todo with it. M►. GIENPELL did not think this measure would he any interference with the sinking fund. which would still remain untouched and unaffected.— As the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not pre pared with any deiails of the expense. he was cer tainly not prepared to give au ultimate opinion; but he was gratified to timid, from the ►omething like anent given in an observation of his Hun. Friend (Mr. Hume), that it would be open to free competition. Lord EBRINOTOM, though he agreed that the pretent measure was in conflict wiih the sinking fund principle. and ha might better have liked it if on a more simple plan. yet, as a measure of refer, it had his approbation ; and he trusted that, in a future Session, the House would deal still more largely with the sinking fund, by attacking, nut only the amount, but its existence. Mr. Ithasa Ly said that for the last thirty years there had been but a shadow ola sinking fund, lie thought it would be a saving of expense if this amount were at once to be taken from the sinking fund of five million►. This was asserted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer to be a sav ing to the public, but he had not laid a single paper nil the table to shew it, and he (Mr. Ma berly) pledged himself to shew that it would in. solve a considerable additional expense. Mr. WILLIAMS was friendly to au efficient sink ing fund, which tended to diminish the public debt, but such • our the public never had, but, on the contrary, what was called a sinking fund had added to our debt. He was so enemy to all circuitous schemes, and he warned the House against sane tio iiiii g vpecitius schemes of relieving ourselves at the expense of posterity. Mr. BIINZTT (of Wiltshire) approved the mea sure, Is tending to relieve the agricultural distress by diminishing the taxes. Mr. Masa thought that the measure was a wise measure, though perhaps not the wisest mea sure which could have been adopted ; hut he was disposed to support it, because it would have the operation of rrducing the taxes. Mr. WM. SMITH wished to know the principle of the calculation which the Chancellor of the Ex chequer h.d gone on. The CIIANCILI oft of the EXCIIIIQUSIt said, the •- y 1 ,A• b. , -;. s ' , 4" S. ~~ . prioetple of the calculation formed no part of resolution. Mr. W. SMITH had not risen to throw gn i • i m . pediment in the wily, fur he considered the sinkin g food as moonshine, and this would be s relief. Mr. BROUGHAM said, he could not hut expret a his adonishment that any man should have ths face (he meant nn disrespect to the Noble Niarquiti) to stand up in that House and deny what w as 4 , veiled on a former evening end repeated that night, that this was a project in counteraction of the sink. ing fund. He did not mean to assert that this ws, an actual taking from the sinking fund, becatua though the sinking fund of five millions accumu• latisig for us at compound interest for ten yeat„ was to go on in one quarter of our financ e . i!,„ scheme was to go on accumulating against oirt.• he. in another quarter, for as unfortunately the sam e purse paid all, the result was the same, tlint L i i the operations were carried on in a different liar% Now the reel state of the plan was this: You seli one annuity for another ; you give en annuity 2,800,000/. for a floating annuity of fire Milhou s determinable upon the expiralion of lives. Now the operation of the plan was this, that supprol ux things were to go on m they were at present, and that no arrangement had been entered into, th e result would he the., that by taking off the bur6n from the shoulders of the present generation, at the end:of 45 years our posterity would have to imy 2.500,0001. more than if no new arrangement had rot taken place. Now did he object to this ? Cinsioly not. He should be quite as unressonehle m th e ble Lord himself if he did so, for he would be Tim . ning counter to the opinion he had all smug express. ed, namely, that we were not in • condition to rel oth posterity, and that present relief would be r ea l wisdom. But what he wished to prove was thi s , that two plans had been hrought forward by tke same Administration diametrically opposite to each other ; acd to borrow a phrase from a neighbourto g nation, he never saw • plan lilt/Waved to Paths. ment which carried along with it so mueli of my'. lineation. All novelties were expensive; novel. ties in finance were certainly not exempt; and although the stability of the G tvertiment sod the finances of the couutry were at prevent all. doubted, yet in sixteen years a great alteration might take place, end of course the contractors, whoever they might be, would look into tutus y, and make us pay for all the risks and hazards to which they were subjected. It appeared to bits that by the new plan the principle of abandoning the sinking funk was recognized, and that totes must be reduced. And alien such subjects were ender dioeussioa, he could not bat lament the very thin attendance of Members in the House.—(Hear, hear.)— But lie always observed, that in proportion as the question was momentous, and really coo• cerned the interests of the country, exactly in the same ratio did Members fly from their seats sod dessert their duty; and if he wished for a unman that night, it was for the purpulte of shearing to the people how their dearest interests were neglected by their representativess—(Hear.)—But he called spell the very few Members by whom he saw himself stn. rounded. who, in spite of the importance of the ques tion, had not run away from their posts; he entreated them not to allow their minds to be deluded by any evolutiotis in figures which either the Noble Lord w the Chancellor of the Eachepter might make, but pele,•ive that this plan recognised the principle that the Sinking Fund must be abandoned, sat what was of much more importance, that the Gt. verattnettt must at last Yield to the imperious de mand fur the reduction of taxes.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. WILSON thought the Him. sod Learned Member had misconceived the plan, for he conic( discover no connexion between it sod the sinking fund. It did not id all entrench upon the sinking fund. The contractors would now purchase the annuities at the peace price, and probably in the course of 16 yews there might be two or three war., in which case the Government would have all the advantage. On the whole he thought the pro pooed plan would ultimately be found benrfict.l to the country. Mr. RICARDO said, if the statement of the Hon. Gentleman were correct, he few no reason why they should not include the pay of the army in the pl.n. Mr. Huns said. he considered the erlealsrioin of the Honourable Member (11r. Wilson) qt• e run. neon, in bupposing that all the advantage, wueld be on the side of Government. Mr. BROUGHAM wished to know if the Chan cellor if the Exchequer meant to extend the plan to the wholedebt. He law no ►eason why the pen sion list should not be farmed out in the same rum. ner. Indeed he thought til e friaries of all official gentlemen might be embraced in the plan, fur they appeared to be tolerably secure. All these etght be included in this notable plan for granting rrhef to the present generation ■t the expenne °four hap py posterity. The Marqui• Or LONDONDERRY said. his Right Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, must feel obliged to the Honourable and Leortird Gentleman fur the advice he had gordi him. Awl the country must fed indebted to him for the lec ture he had read upon the conduct of l'aliameilt. At the same lima he would put at to the Mono whether coming down at pine o'clock after a rod dinner was not rather vacillated to nt3 stilt lc' subject and obstruct discussion, mote than to it. And there could not be a richer example id what lie had just stated, than the Honourable sod Learned Gentleman had furnished in corning dive to disturb the debate, and making jokes upon the serious and important arguments of Its Hight Ho nourable Friend. And lie would beg to suggest to the Learned Gentleman the adoption of les owe precept, and come down a lice o'clock, and at tend to the debate, otherwise it would be Inner he had been absent the entire evening. Mr. BROUGHAM did not doubt the sincerity of the Noble Lird's concluding admonttion. fur he wee quite sure he would have preferred hie absence. He bud been its the House at fire o'clock, sod, seeing no prospect of the discussion commit Dui Ile retired to take that refreshment *filch was multi shout that hour, and which he wss presented frets taking these three days back,—(A returned after an ahsrtice of two h ou r, cu d a lint , and he found brie his Hutt. Fiend Dr:a him (Nlt• Ricardo), and another Ifni,. Friend (Colsoe l Davies), with whose seiiiiiiitiJts lie colicurreti ; 10111 lie was confident tbe debate had lust nothing b.': his absenc-; at all events, lie was suit the plan v. c laL