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ter i rf these two systems has her arodulive civet) , se •i us irjury to the real mt.-resit of the country, by cheiclang the recruhing fur the regular army, and waakaning, at the same time, the force shish ought to be, at this moment, in every part of tl.e king tom, consisting of its mass of popula tion, which is altogether independent of, and naconneeled with, the Regular Army. I would wish to s , e the natioral exertions shew themselvei in as many corps as the people chose to form themselves into ; and the great mass of population trained to that platoon exercise and proCtice which world soonest qualify them for a place in the ranks, and enable them to aft as an armed peasantry; a spe • of force, which, in every age and clime, and in all naticns, has ever been an objeff of the greatest dread, and the most harrassing and &greasing to au invading army. I have a very great objeCtion to the immense expense which L. been incurred by the volunteer system, in the way it has been hitherto managed, and which amnions to a sun, that is almost incredible. When • refleCt,' Sir, that since the commencement of the ,sent war, little more than three years and a half rlApted, no less a sum than five millions has , c:;i:cridi!,l on the Volunteers, and by subscrip t ti am their own private purses, one million rte e ; and when i further state, that the very great I.'4:wives which have been incurred by individuals, is ',early equal to the other, it is astonishing. I know myself, feom my own experience, that the expenses of the Volunteers amount to more than the allowance of the Government ; and if so, it behoves us to consider what proportion ten mil lions beaw to the property tax of the present year. Thds it appears that, in three years and a half, the Volunteer system has cost th- country a sum equiva lent to the property tax for a year; and, atter all, I think the system has not the merit of being the most advantageous way of employing the mass of the people. Whets the comparison was made of men associated into bodies, and men trained individually to arms, the former were indis pntairly preferable ; as *via the proverbial energy of a Tyrolean peasant. would but little avail, un less combined with the efforts of his fellows. But when the question becomes, whether it is more ex pedient to leave them tiscotnhitred, till the period of itva-trn, and then to possess them as a force ap plicable to the service for which they may be most wan-ea ? r whether it were preferable to have them *sae intimate, united, and marshalled corps, dis posable only in certain cases, and to a limited ex vat ? I have no hesitation to say, that I infinitely puffer thr in that state in which, being lacked up and ftsocert oy no conaitions of enrolment, the King could exert his prerogative, and require their aelive aid, whew* he judged it most proper to apply it. My opinion of Volunteer Corps is, that they should be composed err persons ot the rather more elevated condition of life; and, for all the remainder, com ps:nag the great mass of the population, I should prefro them, as a trained and disposehle, but not a-soc:aced, body of aitiams ; to be regarded a, a stirrer, from eth'eh the losses of our arena, in ar. y contention with the enemy, might be immediately repaired. An army that had such a dependerce, and could, like Antler's, spring from the earth, all its tureenth revived, most certainly prevail, its the end, ag.rnet any force whirth emsid land on our shore, but which could not expe,ft to derive reinforcements. If a thousand men were lost, we should have, in any r, a thoue i nd m en to supp l y the blares ; and 4 tt u t i t i f t ' e see should always be in a condition to oppose to skeleton regimen:s, an overwhelming comple ment. Even allowing that the existing volunteer zegirtients are as good and efficient as the inesti mable materials of which they are composed are capable of ;nuking them, they have the disadvan. cage of being commanded generally by very- inex perienced officers, in whom the men, in the hour of danger and duty, would went confidence; and a country, to be defended under such circumstances, I can never be brnaght to regard as in a state ot security, nor its system of defence to be modelled with proper foresight on the part of its administra tion. Is pursuance of the opinion which 1 have unfolded with resped to the Volunteers, 1 propose to approximate gradually to that princip,e noon whic., they w er e su pp ose d, b y t h e l etter of L ordi Meknes, in 1799, to be at first constituted ; namely, that of embracing and embodying into corps, the superior orders, and putting the great mass into that ease of preparation which would render them fit to attach Ita regiments that might sustain loss. The reducing things to this cadet, could be to ease the country from an ezpence that it would be im aosebte for it long to support. I shall propose to reduce the number of Volunteers, as well • to relax the discipline, and abate much of the dory at present required from them. Instead of g their improvement, I shall propase even to • :number them horn the nice attention to regulaticns with which they have been taonbied ; and I shall also propose a few retrench ment. in their exaeuiliture. Alihough the leading ream a of what I inured lc. as I hale said, greatly to red,ke to rmmbet of corps, what 1 propose to the Wss,• is nut a measure that tends to the reduc t. 'II of a vast militiry force, before another force strings up adequate to the defence of the count, y. o --cluse a Regular Regiment is to annihilate it ; hut, in reducing the Volunteer Corps, the men are ~a :e retatne.l into a channel from winch they are iecor . erahle when wanted, and will come, at once, ready trained to tha use of arms, and familiar with the ditties which they are tequired to acqua them waves ot. I do not Wish a rapid reduCtion of the Volunteers; but if they cannot he maintained for less than the enarmous rape-nee+ hie!) they appear likely to entail upon the ccuntry, it is tape :tent that they sho u ld b e diminished with all the celerity con tinent with security. The ex; once at present M anned, large even as I have stated it to be, will not he sufficient to maintain them in future : for ad mltting that the allowances which they re et , se, were to be continued, the subscriptions which have been made in their aid are ex hausted, and therefore the extreme of supporting them according.to their present establishment and numbers, would be every day more and more de. ',Alan); upon Government, until, in the end, the %%huh : weight would topes.: neon the state rcver.ue, atd the Hoose most, in a hide while, prepare to ex oer ience double the expellee which has been hitherto I `•ivie- By dividing the pnpuhation into tie ewe stassea Prspomel, the eapenei,suic will be diminished. Sir. i am satisfied that Gentleman will think with me ; that, a f ter a f ew years, the fervour and Alarm which occasioned the honotreahle spirit for associat• in to defend the country, will subside, endthesystem of - entirely voluntary training cannot be pursued : therefore, however unnilling I am to suggest such a measure, we must have recoure to compulsion. Under the toll impression of the necessity of its adoption, all di it can be done is to make the com pulsion as light as possible. The Honourable Gen tlemen, oppos't• to me, are smiling, I see. I VII sure I (11l 110 t like this thing the better for comina from theta shop. (d general (ca k e.) I do nut for get all the works of this sort with which they kept the state anvil in a continual heat ; the clink of these Cyclops was intermittent, whilst the adivity of the bellow's-blower was such, that the ford.- and smithy never cooled. /A real of laughter.) Thus, for some time, did these nee-eyed armourers of Mars keep the counts y in a fever of efiight. But the measure nnw to be ailed upon shall not operate like theirs. "lhe compulsion is to extend to nothing fur he th n training to the use of arms, and that to be confined within the compass of a year. This service will ex perience all the amelioration and abridgemet t of extent, which the volunteers in the district woul I occasion, as well as every other alleviation of the duty, which could be devised with a proper regard to sound policy. Wherever the old foundation can he reduced within the countess of this new system, I cull adopt it, I mean the foundation of the It,, enma. , se, the principle of which I think pettedly e live. The obligation imposed upon all persons to train themselves, and the requisition of their scr vines, in case of :Oval invasion, I approve of now, and have always expreesed my approbation of. That Was the principle tipne which the Volunteers were originally appealed to; but it degenerated into a system which became exceptionable. It was said, ' after a time, that no ns tn. eeold nhjed that he was injured by being required to meet at 'he end of a village, with all his neighbours, to undergo a dril ling ; brit this, from the promiscuous mob which assembled for the tike purpose, was really found to be an unpleasant duty imposed upon the higher or , le:s of society ; and it was in contemplations of this that I was indoced to approve of the association of vnlenteercneps, to remedy it. The per-, mission to associate, however had been, as it was now apparent, curried to a disadvantageous extent I have already said, that it was my olljed to reduces them within a politic compa ss . 1 he reduelind which I propose to make, woislil be one which 1 would yield a saving to the co_intry. amounting to the difference between the June and the August al lowances, charring generally the more material for the less extensive expend ture. The estimate for th- year would t' en be 1,479,0001. exclusive of 347,0001 for clothing, and some contingent al lowances to Yeomanry. Instead of eigoty five days, the lumber required, upon which the corps were to go out for exercise. will he twenty-six; and this, with a discentineance of pay to officers, wiil occasion a saving of 210,(0 il. The allowance of pay to drill s. ijeants will also be decreased, so as to augment the saving to 300,0001. There is, also, a material disbursement to lospeding Field Offices, which, it k pretty generally understood, may be well saved ; but, as there must be some efg- t fleer sebstituted (ere in a more civil rapacity, wilb • may be appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, or otherwise), this redudion of expellee cannot, per haps, be estimated at more thin 35,0001. To this is to he added the payments. by the Receivers- General, of marching guineas, amounting to 193,1911. making a total annual saving of 8711,0001. These, Sir, art the reduainns I shall propose in the expences of the Volunteer Corps, not from any hosti lity to those Corps, for I possess none, but from a consideration of the orates ire burden upon the public revenue, which their estahlishmein imposes, a d which, if not checked, from the purse t state of the Corps, now no longer to be maintained by contributions, will become onerous to an er.:ent in tolerable. Though, Sir, the measures to be sub mitted will have for their (shied to reduce the VIN luideer Battalions, an effed will be produced, at the same time, of replacing the men in their num bers, though, to some extent, in different persons ; and the change will be such as I wish to see, as it will be occasioned by the introduction of those who are better capacitated for afloat service. I wish, Sir, to pro vide for such persons at the general training would prove unpleasant to, by granting them. on certain conditions, leave to train themselves in the way most accordant to their inclinations. All who embrace this permission, must do it at their own ex pellee, Government only undertaking, in such cases, to provide them with arms. To these Volunteers, an allowance will be continued, but not to the ex tent that has hitherto been made. It must, here after, be distintly understood, that all who shall enter as Volunteers into an associated corps, must serve at their own expence. From the final opera tion of the Aat nothing will exempt, but a double boon is given to the opulent subjeft, of training hinrstlt io the way most agreeable, and when the danger presses, of serving in a corps with which he has associated, and to which he is at tached. Thus, for the cxpence to which he goes beyond his poorer neighbour, he commutes the hazard of being drafted into a regiment of the line to fill up vacancies, for service in a Volunteer • Corps. I come now, Sir, to speak upon that part of the system which I am to propose, in which I have experienced most difficulty to make up my mind. Much as I abhor, in common with all the country, any measure of compulsion, in the great Ivry, or the mass, I find it necessary, that classes should be formed, which must be done by lot, which. I suppose, will be called by the name of ballot (forgbt4r, sad Aver ! beer ! rives tie Opfreadbas ', ec ho. Abou t eoo,ooo west will be seleded from the population, whom it will be necessary to put ender a mode of training. I know no other way of selating them, but by lot or ballot. The men so fixed upon, are to he divided into three classes ; the first commenciug with those at the age of 16 years, and not exceeding t 4; the second, those from 24 to 32 ; and the third clues, those from 32 to 40. It will be left to the discretion of the Crown, to call out sites parts of these halite: as His Majesty shall think fit, and its the part. of the country most requities them to hr in arms. If the Volunteers in any district shall be equi valeet to the number of men required to be bd lotted fur, the ilistsiet will thereby he emitted ' to exemption ; and so in proportion to the num ber of Voluuteers, in each perish or place, a diminution will be experienced of the number of men required to be raised by ballot. The men en whim the ballot falls will be trained only 2b days, And viii ieceive a shilling each time, as a comPeasatiou for their half day's work. The same grattity will also be allOwtid to the Volunteers. Sir, it will not be necessary this{ 1 should go into detail now, with iespe.ft to the force to be raised by the ballot, 1 nerd only state, that they will not be car tiei from their own homes; neither will they be embodied, nor svear any particalar clothes ; but it will be confided in the rim sere of the Crown to call them out to some town in the county for a short period ; and even, should this be thought too bur densome, it will be relinquished The option of a file will be given to those who chose to be exempt from the ballot, or service in a Volunteer corps, of two denominations and rates. It will devolve to the detachments of the regiments of Militia to in strma the ritts.ea ; and thus an association will be effeifited between the two descriptions of force, ilrit will he benefi mil to both. 'llse Militia will con ;net themselves with attention and conciliation towards the members of the mass, under the hope of MAIN.- in: many of them to enter into their ba.talioni ; anda by this intercourse, a permanent advantage and decrease will be derived to the regular army. This, Sir, is • measure that I hope will be atfended with anore beneacial results to the crummy than Ow o. the late Minister's, called the Army br-De fence Aft, under which 57 battalicns were to be raised, and for which ()Seers were provided before i a single man was got. These officers were turned 1 to graze while the aft was most deliberately rif-a im; the uhj:6l of its framers, and were waiting. like (system, when there is an ebb, with gaping mouths, fur tide lime (1 hemp 0 Even had this measure been produftive to the extent expeaed, 9,000 men a-year was the utmost number it was to raise, arid yet it was to ahviate the necessity of all other means for recruiting the at my. The Militia is a species of frrce that has not been considered to fall under the Re grdar Army, ne.r the Leru-en-Masse. At its origin a l estautishment, it partoo k , perhaps, mere of the latter forte; but at present it is certainly part of the regular army ; and as an army far home de fence, iseminemly dimipli n ed. i nstea d o f t h e par i s h balitßs forthis service, at present resorted to, I pro to substitute recruiting at a limited bounty, and Illlee the regiments on the same footing as the Mlllitinits Ireland. A measure has been suggested by thelate Right Hon. Secretary, to allow the bush Militia, upon certain conditions,to enlist into the line. If this measure can be found to be extensively prac ticable, it is intended to aft upon it as an excellent expedient Sir, I should state that the usual allow ance for cloathing will be allowed to the Volunteers this year ; and I also add, what is necessary to be fully and clearly understood, that Government deer not hold itself pledged to renew this boon on any Imam occasion. I came now to the sub jetit of Volunteer rank ; and in expressing my opinion on this head. I must say, that the rank given to the Vo lunteer Officers, was an injury dime to the Regular Army. It the Officers of the Line are not to have command in their own peculiar province, in God's name what are thsy ? Never was any thing so 'revolting to all reason and feeling as the making Volunteer Officers higher in rank.— What would the Hon. Gentleman opposite (General Tarleton) think, if a man in a red coat wire, ad dressing him, to say, he was the son of a Noble man, having rank in a volunteer corps, and there fore expefital he (the General) should bow to hit opinion on military affairs? Or, if a man entering into the Militia, ami telling the officers, 0 I can buy a dozen of you," musty because he teas superior in civil rank ? To obviate this absurd and injurious precedence, I shall propose, Sir, that, in future, no unicer enjoying the rank of a Capta n in the army, shall be subjeft to the command of any Vo lunteer Ofticer. In proposing this measure I con lie in the goad sense which I am sure abides with these gentlemen; and this confidence induces me to remark, an the circumstance of some cf them beisigs,eaen in common and familiar life, distin guished. by the prefixing to their names their rni itaitys-meak. I should think any man meant to make.sport of me, who contintiea to give me a title to which I had stn pretension, and the abn e er pros titution of which I should detest. With resped to the clothing of Volunteers, I think it no light or trifling thing that the clothing of the army is to be seen on the backs of Volunteers. The livtry of His Majesty's servants is permitted to be worn by none but those in that capacity ; and His Majesty's army ought surely to preserve their distindion. l'o this end, I trust to the good sense of the Volunteers ; I hope and espeCt the country will see them having a raise worthy regard to economy, and laying aside the ap pearance of what they really are not : Soldiers they are not, and cannot be, and should not assume their garb. Sir, the country ought rot to trust solely to its Standing Army. The population should be in that SIAM in wiper it can best support it, by being put into that sort of pautal tra:ning, which, whilst it qualifies them to meet any emergency with fortitude and effeft, should not distrait their attention entirely from other affairs. The advice of a late eminent statesman ( Mr. Pitt), I know, was to put the country into that state of training. Supplies of clothing should be ready for use, and when danger is really at hand, no man should be exempt from sharing it. The operation of the Bill, which it would be necessary to introduce, to embody the plan I have submitted to the House, will be gra. &Ai- So little do I look to it for immediate effea, that I expel the seed will be some time in the ground before it thews a blade. I hope, how. ever, the measure will wear well, and that what at present appears complicate and huthensome in the training of £OO,OOO will nut really prove so.— The Bill will be accommodated to the basis of the Lee* es Maim Aa of lima ; there will be some amendments necessary in the Militia and Mutiny Acts, and there oust be a Bill regulating the Chel sea allowance. 1 return my thanks to the House for the indulgence shown me during the long time I have trespa.sed on their attention, and shall con clude by .mtving the repeal of the Aft of the 44.11 of His Nlajesty, called the Defence Ad. Lord CAS I'LEREAGiI said, it was in no de gree his intention to oppose the intiodanion it the 13:11, mach less to follow the Right Hon Gentle- _ II , "" • man through all the particulars which he had, it.; , 11 so much ability, stated to the House ; but he thou:. he would be doing himself a great irjustice, are also the memory of the ltight lion. Gentleman w:th whom he had had the honour to ai, if he did n t make some observations on the speech whic:i he Kid. . just heard. Thelatter.periud of the ptditical I,!e cf his Right Hon. Friend, was considerably iuvriv d in the attack made on the military systeM. wh•ch he had h. en the principal means of establiehing ; and e considered it as a duty to defend it. : Thine wets some general principles, in which all must wee.. and he was sure the Right Hoe. Gentleman hiartielf • (Mr. Witi,:ham) would adrril , that the overturtrint of any great system of deli nee, must be prejed to the State, particularly when it was attempted during the cent:nuance of a war, and he thought he might call upon the House, not to adoiSt any new plan, tinless necessity required it. He *idled that Gentlemen would, with him, examine into what the state of the army now u as; never WT6 it •u G•>urishiug, and he was convinced, the Right Hoe. Gentleman himself was r—it so great an enemy to ir, as to say any thing to the contrary. For this. • the people were indebted to the Noble Person lately at she head of that department, and he was tut e they would ■hvaye remain grateful. He was 1• a • pared td state, that k was the intention of his Righ. Hon. Friend, to have made some entail altera•iona in the mustier plan, an as to make op the de6- ,resuair, bet they were not of suet' a mAnitude as I. to reqUite any mateetsioaltereeion. 'de preserve - r 1' army. including Militia and Artillery.' was 267,0P0 strong. lie did ott wish to draw compaqo sons; her s st preterit, it waf the only erode he could pursue. In the year IS t, at the close of a former Administration. the streagth of the army 1 was not mole than 240,000 men ; so that, at pre ' sent, we had the greatest army ever this country possessed, notwithstanding which. as attempt was now made to overturn it. lie would now say a few words ..sith resped to the Whelk* of the plan. Ihe tactual increase of the army, made altcgerher one third of the whole of this visious Vari, so much de precated. With respeo to the waste of the art not including those lost by war, AS, lately, few had been-taken off in that way ; hut, by the common contingetici, s attached to all mankind, 15.000 men a.year should be counted on; and, he conceived. that we should much deceive ourselves, if we reckoned on lets. Any Gentleman who would take the trouble of looking to the returns of the force of the comely, now before the House, would find. that the regular recruiting service bad not, toe a considerable time. supplied more than Iron eleven to thirteen thousand men a-year. It might, therefore, with peat truth be stated, that the ordi nary enlisting, for the Lst six years, did not do more than make good the contingencies each year, for th.- last its years. His Right Hon. Friend had looked with a great degree of cnufi knee to the pro.. gressive supply, from the Additional Force Aft ; but he would not trouble the House with observe tions on this head ; but when the papers were print ed, he was convinced, that the House would see . the reason it was not in a greater d egree pt eduaive. , % was not from any d e fi c i ency i n the measure itself, bur on account of the t o t a l ignorance of the Pariah ..J Officers, who conceived, coat Government only i wanted the money, see wet the men. He did eats wish to trouble the House, but he wished Gentler. men to taro their :mention to the produce of ir, under all disadvantages, for the let ten weeks. There was a steady progress of SOO men a week, rn all, 3,000; so that what they were now called upon to relinquish, without having any subaitute, was a system by which (7.000 men were annually raised. This Bill was to differ from the Additional Force Ate, by improving the situatios of the soldiers. and he was willing to go alone; with the Right Hem. Gentleman, in this respect, so far as it was comes nolo to the principles of economy; bin he thought the plan might extend to soldiers, enlisted for life; AS well as to those enlisted for a fruited time. He indeed conceived, that It WAS a l'hel on the present system to say, that it was a bondage for life. The Right Hoe. Semtleman, he was sure. was igntwanr, that, in the present seetem, any mall, after a ser vice of tei years, might have his discharee ; and, he believed, Ise had a right t 3 denoind a pension. even though he were not &said:rd. In the schemer , that nitzin suornitted to the House, be conceive& the Right Hon. Gentleman had a prospective view of the army, and net a retrespeCtive ; in this he was perfealv secure, as sae had the army raised by. the late Minister, to support the country, his plan ot.ly extending to those which w-re to be noised here after; so that he left it to his aurces.or, is the course of six ors.ven years,'n remedy the evils ori: i .t ing horn it. With test,eCt to the I.o.banie sap*, tone raised by this pion, he didnit think it would he greater than if the soldiers were raised for life. Some moo, he would admit, wit .ed to go into the array for a limited time, but these men might satisfy then pro pensity, by gaiog into the Militia. He was aware. th.t there might be men who would wish to serve for a limited time, and also for general service ; but these men, among the lower order of people. were extremely few. He then made some otiserva tines on the system pursued formerly foe raising men fur a limited service, to IV'S., in India ; but did not think that case in the slighirst degree Ann. 'opus to this. The argument, wi:h reseed to de sertion, made use of by the et.ght Hon. Gentleman, could completely be turned against biniselt ; as it appeared, from the returns, that in the course of a year, one-third of the desertion wos from the regi ments raised for limited service. He did not think that this most from any other cause, than that the men were all newly raised; and it always, he believed, was the case, that new tamed regiments were more liable to loises by deaertion, than any other. According to the present plan. the 'oblivion foreign service. when tneir time would eepire, might, re general. be prevailed on to eniio ag tin ; hut those quartered at home, he was rather of opinion, :ever would ; and he was induced to make this st iternem. Irons a praCtical knowledge with tespee to the Irish Militia, the greater part or which were Myral. lost to the service at the time of the expiration of the term for which they had engaged. It was the in tension of the Right Hon. Gentlemen to ian rare the present sptern, withour know,,,g whether the o %py rse ahletn e .a : trrw o h posie , ynt. d we sio ec u a l ti d hicdr is a u vru s 40 :: o e i e .; .. tt : a n a; ; ~he dreadful u .. p i n o e t dilemma,v , e i thatd_ . ‘ ' tiefence. without having another substituted. rbi, 1: ' r . T;