The Sun. — London, England, 1807-07-23 00:00:00

. , . *\• ' r:444 ~ ~.. ...., , 1 1 '• . k.l ' V" ) ' .4°. ' tr:, A t , ff,' - i• i t,:,:k`t, -- ) --;,- •`?_it. , 4 l -t.l , 7.5 'ltt IX - , - ..T10;', 14 ' .'!/,,,.._ . ' c'oe r 4st4!. l ;•lll , f ) • o),di : 4q..- 0 , • ...›; -i• - . .„. Ti, , :, iiiill‘%. I j • THE NUMBER 4634.) IMPERIAL PARLI.dMENT. ROUSE OF PIERS. WEDNESDAY, JULY 22. .This day the House met at three o'clock, and was occupied it hearing Counsel in the Appetti May v. Wharton, till near six 'o'clock. The further consi deration was then postponed to Friday. .. A number of Private Bills Wert brought up from the Commons by sir E. KNATCHaULL a Mr.GRAIIAM, and others. The Lottery Bill, the Irish Distilleries' Bill, the Irish Salt Duty Bill, and the Irish Chancellor of the Exchequer's Bill, were committed, and the other Bills before the House were forwarded in their re spative stages, after which the House adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, WEDNESDAY, JULY 22. Lord Howicx. and other Members.took the oaths ana their seats. On the Minion of Mr. CH EE SEMENT, an Account was ordered to be laid before the House of the gross Receipts 3t the Post Office, from the sth of April, 1 103, to the sth of April, 1807 . His Majesty's Property Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday. Mr. SUMNU presented a Petition from John cod, Esq. praying for an enlargement of the .term for entering into reeognizances on the Petition corn= Veining of an undue Return for the Borough of Lancaster, on the ground of the indisposition. of one of the sureties. 'He then moved, that the time of entering into the recognizanees be enlarged to Mon day next. . I Sir J. N Ew p owr and Mr. P. Mociaz opposed the 4 °lion, on the ground that the time had passed for Presenting such Pennons. Mr. DENT pledged himself in a few days to bring before the House a scene of iniquity on this sub -3e61 of a very extraordinary nature. • After a few obervationi from the Sreatzta, the l'lotion was negatived without a division. Mr. DENT gave notice, that he would to-mor row move for leave to bring in 3 Bill to pre vent the feelings of the House from being thus played with. Mr. Ross brought in a Bill to make the Harbour of Amsterdam, in the Island of Curagoa, a Free Port. Read a first, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. In a Coiwnittee on the Linen Aft, a Resolution was agreed to, to allow a Drawback on Linens ex ported to the West Inclies,The Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.- The Naval Stores' Bill went through a Committee. The Report of which was ordered-to be received to. morrow. On the Motion of Mr. BIDDULPII,. an Account vas ordered to be laid before the House of all buties on Coal and Lime carried coastwise, in the Principality of Wales, for the last three years. Mr. Honnoose brought in a Bill for the continu ance of several Ads relating to the British Fisheries and the Woollen Manufactures.—Read a first, and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow. NEW MILITARY PLAN. " Lord CASTLEREAGH, in pursuance of the no, tice which he had bad the honour to give, rose to call the attention of the House to, the Military measures "Mich his Majesty's Ministers thought it their duty to propose ;.a subjed at all times important, but per ' baps never so important as at the present moment . Otis crisis. It had been to ,him a subjea of consi derable uneasiness, that the prockii.lion of these [pea 6ures had been somea hat delayed by his own per sonal indisikißition+ but there were other and more eansesAehich "had induced Government not to be hasty in briOging them forward. His Maks " 'Y's Ministers 'could not but feel, on coining into "lee, that the event of the campaign on the ton- Client, which was then opening,. whether favourable or disastrOus, was likely to present to the observa tims, of 'Parliament the truest motives for inciting , 11 11 to " exertion—unotiveio much more powerful than any which the statements of Government could o therwise.roduce. He could also assure the 'Right ilon. Gentleman opposite, that his Majesty's Mi - nisters were anxious that their return to office should net be marked. with any undue impatience to sub vert the plans of their predecessors. Among the eminent qualities of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the solicitude to destroy established systems was one 'which he owned he was least (lavas to emulate. Impressed with -these feelings, his Majesty's Mi nisters examined deliberately the Military System already in existence. He was prepared to admit, t hat whatever objetlions he felt to that system, he also felt considerable difficulty in making a' funda mental alteration in it. A comparatively inferior system laid claim to 'protection. from 'the circum stance of its being in existence ; and, therefore, in what he should Air to the House, the Right Hon. 473 entlomati would not And such a deliberate purpose of alteration as perhaps he expeeted, or as charade , liaed his own arrival in that department which he . (Lord Castlereagh) had now the honour to fill. (Lord thus stated the reasons why tins subjea had not been subrnitte4 at an earlier period to the consi deration of Parliament, he should now feel it his ' doty to propose to them a measure of great energy, which would put the Country to much inconve nience, which would subiett it to severe sacrifices, but which was rendered indispensable by the cir `g e ..umstances of the times, and by the measures of the late Administration. On this point he felt relieved 1 from th e necessity of entering tido a particular mid detailed description of this necessity. The present situation of Europe was enough of itself to rouse the . public attention. If th e l ate Ad m i n i strat i on a ll ow ed, when they were i n o ffi ce, t h at t h e Mili tary strengt h of the - e Country was inadequate to its objects, how TH UR SDA Y, JULY 23, 1307. much more so must it now be, when it was hafdly possible to turn our eyes to any quarter in which the interests or Great Britain were not' at stake. If the sphere of action were great when the Right Hon. Gentleibliti was in power,- how much was it tended at - the present moment. We had now ''to support new principles of policy, and to feed so much larger an Army employed on foreign service. In the Army at, home also, we were called upon either to make a great effort to render the second battalions of our Regiments efficient, or, with a due regard to . economy, to abandon them altogetAr. He was ap prehensive, hoWever,, that should they he abandon ed, the weakness which marked them would cha raelerize the first battalions, and that the first batta , lions would soon beeome as inefficient as it was so deeply to be lamented that the second battalions now were. It was impossible to lOok to the general aspe& of Europe, and to the Returns on the table, by which 'it appeared how large a portion of our force was employed abroad, and, even on the . most superficial view, entertain a doubt of theile cessity of great exertions indeed, if we were de sirous of preserving otir security at home, and of not abandoning our Military greatness abroad. If 'the necessity were disputed, he was prepared, and staked his personal responsibility to prove (could he do so without divulging that which ought not to be divulged), by the most satisfac tory and undoubted details, that no voluntary or other local force was adequate to the wants of the Country, but that for every thing of that description, a regular and efficient toree must be substituted. The , question; therefore, was not whether the Volunteer System, or the Train ing Bill, could be improved,. but what that system' . was which would.carry our Regular Army and Mili , tia to the highest point, with toe least inconvenience to the existing establishments and with the most mo derate pressure on the coimtry ? If he had satisfied the House that some substantive increase of regular force was necessary for , the preservation of our dearest interests, it would be -a proposition not very. difficult to establish, that we must not rely for th it amount of force which the public exigency required 'on the system of ordinEry recruiting, -Which the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite had projeCted, or on any system of ordinary re cruiting which human wisdom had devised. H e would not now enter into a detailed examination of thy: Right Hon. Gentleman's System : that w ould be a subject fir future discussion ; but he would gene- rank state it as his own deliberate and decided con viction, that if any system of ordinary recruiting were freed as munch as it was possible to tree it from the raids of undue competition,and were in everyresped as well administered as it was in human power toad. minister it, it might keep up an army once brought to its'standard, but it could never by competent to keeping up an army, and of increasing it at the same time. Let the House look at the result of the Right Hon. Gentioman's System for the last six months—the most favourable period of its operation —th e y would find that, deducting the boys raised by it, the aelual produce of men obtained for the army was not so great as by the former double operation of the ordinary recruiting, and the Additional Force Mt, much less was. it calculated to give that in- I crease to our military strength which the foreign measures of his Majesty's late Ministers (and into • the ,wisdom of Those measures he would not now enter) had . rendered necessary. If therefore it was meant to have a bond fide addition to the amount of our public force, it was perfettly luSory to depend on the ordinary recruiting.— In truth, therefOre, the question came to this, what measures must be resorted to to raise the army to the standard. to which circumstances imposed the necessity of its being raised ? Certainly by some Rurt of compulsion.. Nu desirable species of com 7 pulsion had ever occurred to any Administration un conne&ed with ballot : 'and here. he could not avoid condemning the unnecessary painsi . which the Right- Honourable Gentleman opposite had taken to decry the use of ballot. If it were'ellowed that compulsion must be resorted to, and that that compulsion must be founded on ballot, our choke was narrowed to a very limited extent. In submit ting to Parliament' what had occurred to his Majes ifs Ministers as most expedient on this subject, he would not expel any peculiar novelty. ac knowledged that he had not made any very He hoped aa t they great discovery : he had indeed avoided every thing that appeared mighty ingenious, because he knew very well that on all subjects, and especially on miti- Ury subjects, these ingenious and complicated theo ries, althoUgh they might look extremely well on p a - per, were found to be sadly deficient when attempted to be put into practice. He was persuaded, whatever might be his opinion of the Military Plans of the Right Hon. Gentleman, that at all times, 'and in a state of war above all other times, it was irifinitely better to adopt the Military Establishments of the Country as they stood, and to fortify and support' them, than to weaken and throw them down for the purpose of substituting some specula tion, of which experieoccalone could prove the su periority. There seemed to be this aim* alterna tive on which to decide : If we were to raise a great number of men by ballot, the Country must be call ed upon either to submit to a ballot for men direct for the Regular Army, or to submit to a ballot for men for the Militia, with the view of our drawing ' from the Militia that aid which the incomplete Re giments of the Line required. He would state the grounds for the option made by his Majesty's Mini sters, and shew why they thought it the less advise able measure to raise a number of Men by ballot , direa for the Regular Army. It was true that the A6t of 1804 (the Army of Reserve MI), to which he might . consider himself a party; was for the pin pose of raising men by ballot dived for the Army ; and it was also true, that if ever a military measure was beneficial to the Country, it was that Aa, from which, in a very . sh'ort space oftime, most important advantage's had been derived. If, therefore, the Country stood in the same situation asahat in which it stood in 1804, he should eertairrly have thought it - the duty of His Majesty's Ministers to submit to • Parliament some propositiena - analogous to the Army of Reserve Ad ; but it was impossible not to feel that the circumstances of the Country were 'essen tially different now from what - they were then, ,and that they were now preeiely such as to afford strong reasons for a preferenLe or the other mode of in creasing our military strength. In the first place, from the magnitude of our force (however yet in adequate) we had more nearly approached to those bounds by 'which every .Country, limited in popula tion, must necessarily be prevented from furnishing, more men for its military service, •ot at least from furnishing them without considerable difficulty. , — If, therefore, a mode offered itself of procuring men with more facirity than in any other way, that mode ought to be' adopted. There was another striking uifferenee between the situation ofthe- Country when the , Army of Reserve Aft was pass ed, and the situation of the Country at present. — Just before the thimer period, the Regular- Militia had been balloted, and had been called into:service ; now their period of service had expired, and would \ terminate withehe termination of the war. What ever supplies, therefore, might now be drawn from the Militia fur • the Regular Army, would coniist of men whose services • would be .otherwise • approxi mating to 'a conclusion, while thet new 'levies, :. to till up the deficiency thus occasioned in the Militia, wouldconsist of men commencing a term of service of five years. Thus the Country would • Ob- - tain a military protection ready for a new war, or any other emergency, and would enjoy a diminution of those burdens which must otherwise be incurred at the conclusion of Peace, to replecethat very 'great portion of the Militia which must •in that event be discharged.••. In proposing, therefore, to levy men by ballot for the Militia, • rather than to revive. the . provisions of the Army of Reserve Ad, no new or avoidable burden would be imposed upon the Country, but that burden merely would be •antici paten, to which, on the return of Peace, the Coun try must subMit. That part of the measure of the Right Honourable Gentleman last year, which ex cluded from the Army any reguldr battalions for limited service, was another strong cause fur prefer ring the mode now proposed of augmenting our force: It was , true that this obstacle . ' was not insurmount able, but it was the wish of his . Majesty's Ministers to disturb as little as possible the existing Military Establishments of the• Country. The' levy of men. for the Militia would be less prejudicial to the Coun try and to. the regular recruiting for :other rei:eaios. ' There. was a:greater prourene,s -in the peasantry to ewer into.the - Militia than into the Regular Army. Men for the Militia would not only- be - more easily got, but they would .be-of at better deseription, - ni;rt _although he allowed that the large Jaallot- which would be required would raise the biitlnty consider- ably, yet it would not be rased so much as it the same ballot - were to take place for the Regular Army. Th e balloting for the Militia had become congenial to the habits of the Country. It was t:uuiliar with it. The people recognizedit with tranquillity, and the Magistrates executed it with ease The Army ..ot Reserve Ad, although a• most estimable measure at t h e time. of its adoption, yet - being one of compa ratively greater preseure, .alter it • had been tour months In operation, degenerated so much, that those by whom it had been proposed thought it their duty to move fur its 'suspension.' He thought also the House would feel, that the -fad of the penalties under the Army oh' Reserve Ad. never hating been - - enforced . was a most'seriotis obstacle to any recurs • rence to that measure. Those-who very •in power 'had transterred.the penalties to the Additional Force 'Ad, and that alone; but when ••the Right. Hon. Gentleman proposed .to Parliament to repeal those fines, in defiance of every principle-of public justice and legislative dignity, he (Lord •Castlereagli) 'had endeavuured to sites , ' how pregnant with mischief that Right Hon. Gentleman's proposition was; and that it ,wa s one which - would render nugatory apy measure similar to the Army of Reserve Ad. What the step then taken was unwise, now appeared pretty strongly; and were he to . propose a renewal of the Army of Reserve Ad, be witesatistied that ho should, in consequence, subjed the Country to all the texa tion of a legislative measure, which must end in complete tailure. The House would also feel as an in ducement to prefer the mode which he had suggest ed, that looking at the present situation of the Coun try, it the Gentlemen of the Militia were; disposed to lend themselves to such a laudable object, it was muclituore desirable that any temporary inefficiency should exist in the defensive rather than in the - O'lE6)- sive part of our military furce. In every point of' view, therefore, it - seemed preferable to raise men for the Regular Army from the Militia, than to raise men for the Regular Army by a ballot. It was 'it mere anticipation of a burden which must be imposed—it was's cheaper method—it was one by which better • troops wend be procured—and it would ultimately restore to the recruiting market that monopoly which he was as desirous - as the Right Hon. Gentleman oli posite that it should possess. Having thus detailed the grounds on which the measure'. now proposed, : had been adopted, it became necessary to state the extent of, theleVy. . At the termination of five years service, ail men balloted for the Militia were en titled- to their discharge. The - official documents proved, that from December next to the succeeding May, - between five and six thousand of the Militia would be entitled . to their . discharge,, besides the waste produced by other circumitatic'es. -He was anxious When - the subjed of bell& was agitated, to submit to the House the- expediency of providing not only a cover for this deficiency, and this waste, but also such a number of -supernemeraries (t - or whom the Officers now ,in the Militia would -be 'Sufficient) as' would render • any norther ballot .tor two or three - years - wholly unnecessary; to that a itricPENck, security would be given to the Line, that a coati nual ballot would not exist in competition with. their ordinary recruiting. In looking to the number of men - which it would be proper to,raiselor these. purposes, two questions offer themselves fOr consi deration : What number of men could the. Zliiitia• afford to spare? and what number of men , did the army indispensably require to put it in a .state .uf adequate efficiency ; that was to place every regi...• meat, including the second battalions, on its proper footing ? Having duly. weighed these points, big - M ijesty's Ministers ~proposed that ell those men now serving in the Militia exceeding three-filthsof the 'Militia establishment in Great Britain, and one half of the Militia in Ireland, should be traesferned to the Line. By this arrangetnent, about 21,70 U .• men would be gained from the Militia of Great Bri tain, and about 7000 from the Miiitia of Ir e l an d. It had been thought better to propose to t a k e t h e excess above .three-fifths of the britsh Militia este blishinent, and the excess. tthotit ' one-belt of Irish Militia iStabliahment, rather thateao take two; fifths of the British Militia and halt the Irish• Mi.,, litia, because as several of the - Militia regimentari were not completely filled up, the latter mode . would weaken theta too much. one word, by the proposed Plan, the British Militia would remain at three-fifths, 'and the Irish 'Militia at one bah - ef its present .establishment.. The men to be reiied by ballot were, •as he before . staled for thn e. jeas,:to cover the waste in the Militia, to sti ply the deficiencies occasienect.-. by, so great R transfer from the Militia Ire invents to.the •Regular and • to. provide a,body .of supernumeraries large: enough to prevent the speedy recurrence. -ot the' ballot. Mae& these objetts, it had heeretheiv,lit; better. to. mention a proportion, rather' than n de.* fined number. As the law. at present stool, his Majesty was':empowered to on time Counties to: ballot for a Supplementary liiliiia, amounimg, in- Great Britain, to 24,009 men, viz. 20,000 in Eng— land, and 4000 in Scotland. As the number of t his Supplementary Militia was evm.lly half of - the eata,,' blished Militia, so it * had lavn deemed advisable to' propose that the Counties should be called upon for a Supplementary Militia and a half; making ''56,000 men for Great Britain, besides 8000 for IrelancL Allowing fur .the necessary waste, this would add at least 38,000 men- to• the' gross mili tary force of the Country, and 28,000 men to the. Regular Army; leaving. with the Militia a large, body of supernumeraries, sufficient for a long period. to release' the standing army from the embarrassments which a ballot must occasion ; and, when peace should arrive, instead of not having any Militia at all, the country would possess a.Militia of . 36,000 men, and would only have to raise the differ+ ence bet weqn• that number and Iliafull establishment •—narnelyi aliurtli, : or 2,060 Fact). Having that stayed 'the extent to which in - the present - exigency it had been thought wise to carry the increase of the Regular Army from the Militia, he ob erved that no pains had been spared by his Majesty's Government to digest a mode of tranferring ' the men from the Militia to the Line, more tree from cbjetion thou any that had been hitherto devised, more palateable to the Officers of the M.litia, and less likely to hurt that just pride in their different regim.n:s which they so laudably entertained. On this part a the subje his Majesty's Government would be extremely , hap. py to receive any suggeoions, horn the Officers of the Militia, with which they might think proper to favoul them. r It had occurred to his Maje ! ay'aMi. nisters e thae there were two objedtions that were likely, to press on The feelngs of the Militia Officers. —;the first waS, the large amount Of the tbrce that would be subtraded iroru the Militia—the other, the danger which the Militia Regiments would for a while incur of aselsxation of discipline by the volun ur recrulting for the Line. With resoea t te o tt g first objeaion, he trusted it would not be deemed a very serious one, when it was con s idered that; alth ough a great dimiinitan in the nutobere of the Militia must certainly take place for the increase of the Regular Army, .yet that a, greater number 'would be immediaely supplied from the counties,— With respect to the,:eeond, it was proposed, in the -first instatice,.and for a-certain period, to subMit the recruiting for iIL-.14-ne from the Militia solely to the direction of the Mditia• Officers. It was propped, that for 30 days after the issuing of the warrant-, - no soldier or Otticer of the Regular Army should inter pose With the M Ilia. It was in the contemplation of his Majesty,- and of his Royal Highness the Corn. mander in Chief, to: give, as usual; Commissions in the Line in proportion to the number - of men raised, and to commission the Oaken, - in the Regiment to which the men might be invited to go, shanld the wished for number not .be produced within the 3.6 days ; but it was also proposed to accept a smaller proportion of men, provided they were produced in 30 clays, in preference to the allowing of volunteer ing is round numbers, it a third was thus produced instead of two•filths. He would submit to the House 'but a few observations on the terms of enlistthent, because they would become the , - subjea of a future discussion. He was tat front wishing to anticil ate the decision of Parliament on a question of so ioter esting a nature, as whether or not the men should be allowed to inlist for lite; though he.ditiered Vely widely from the Right Hon. Oentleman opposite on that point, lie wits,. by- no -Means. disposed to advise that. the Regulations adopted - last year should be re scinded, and thingrvestosed• to iheirformer st ate.-- Still he thought it would be wise to give to indivi 7 duals the alternative whether they would enlist - for life or not; but he-admitted that the fit Opportunity . for discussing the question would be on the int roduc lion of the Mutiny Bill. He. would observe, how 'ever, that the -Right Hon. Gentleman himself had not thought that-no case could occur in which a de •viation from his 'Regulations -.would be advisable, He had held out anoxpeaation to - those who had. 'served 0 t years,_thatthey Would - be iminediately charged ; but prudenee would not allow hint to yen.