The Sun. — London, England, 1802-04-13 00:00:00

• . . the national spirit. Meetings, _ formerly public, Were now held in private, and they became nu merous in proportion to the obstacles they had -to encounter. The Catholic iehebitants e were attacked by the Fanatics of an opposite persuasion ; hand -bills were affixed to their doors, ordering them, by a ee-tai n day, to leave their houses ; -and in case 'of a refusal they were burnt - to the ground. A Com mission was sent .to try these rioters, but they were all acquitted, except one, and he was pardoned.— This roused the Catholics to seek that proteaion from 'turns which they could not obtain from Law and in. their turn they committed ontrages and disorders. Government, however, did not punish these dis Orders, as they h a d d one t h e former.. Mi litary Tribunals were introduced, who condemned whole Tribes at once.' The Military were indem nified for all their outrages, thus adding legal sane_ tioeto illegal enormities. The 'people were deli- Yered over to an - enraged Army ; whole Provinces Were proclaimed, and Military Execution closed the scene. Abercrotriby, indeed, was a Soldier, train e in the S c h oo l of Honour, and the' disci p li ne lied observed softened the horrors of War ; but hewas soon remove d f rom t h e command.—Still people did not rise ; a more aaive stimulus was necessary ; the torture was introduced, even. int o t he Court -Yard of the Viceroy's Palace,. that his ears might be regaled with • t h e cr i es of the vielims. The people then rose to groan t r , L e , el y• Ministers had cheriShed the hatred Ve-. aide d thethe PeOple and the parliament; they now in el,-;, army against the Parliament. The Parlia- D ni ,..., - is , tv as branded by those who had formerly i n se " it, as tainted by local prejudice, and un fi t l ee govern It waS at last forced to commit that po itieal suicide on itself, which has been dignified by PUnio n nairi e of Union. It has been said, that the Irish. nion and Reform took itsttsror model from France ; but Irety attests, that p u bli c meetings took place in laudlot purposes • of reform ten years before the vii.rench Revolution. It was the universal co t reption of eirParli ament t h at pointed cut to them the necessity reform. Ministers A well as the people of Ireland 'aw a reform necessaey, but they di ff ered about the ''ode The People thought that a Parliament chosen by themselves, and bound to them by conneetions and e n n teres t , would be most likely to redress their grieve w it h , Ministers thought that a foreign Parliament, wan ts t s Ympathy or attachment, ignorant of their To e dit I.ki prejudices, could afford the best remedy. ~. y th i s - uel ieve scheme into execution, (a scheme, 1 dill) }: ProjeOed at' the period of the Regency vel t , ~t e Minister has waded through blood, and in. 14. '', e ` - ' a hatioti in indescribable calamities. If the s ece ' t er has failed in foreign wars, he has completely L a —ee ded ie destroying English liberty, Nay, he ne s stalu d.uP in this House, and justified the use _. the, tortu re ! Robespierre, who only infliaed 41( "1 3 )e death, was in comparison with him an angel ~,l ' e rc y (cey of hear,.hear I) 'The twelve Cxsars li c et exceeded this cruelty; and shall such condua ' te Pa '.sed over ? this the British Nation be, with l'rentty disgraced abroad, and oppressed at home 11The Country is now 'Much in the same state as it 43 at th e end of the American War. The Right e 'i". Gentleman (Mr: `Pert) 'then thought the , leli stets who conducted that Wet . ought to be censue ed . io Iva ' he foretold the consequences if this -measure iti - ,"t adopted. His counsel was wise, and - should a _ t 'le present circumstance's be followed, to prevent of the of the same (Arils. I now, in -the name for,t e , P ,e . °Pie, call for the same measure he called now ,' nave done my duty—and the Country may lib, t e ; ' u se, Whether to submit to the ruin of their ttill re S and th e un i versa l emp i re o f F rance, or no w to m aintain its freedom and independence. I ~,,boiceolinclude with M ov i ng f or " a Commit tee of the Ad m i • "se, to inquire into the condutt of the late mi nistration,., . Mr. S T _ Lot . 77 ' KT seconded the Motion. • Pardo n „ f L.I II7 PLE rose to answer. He begged replyi n2 , , .House for taking up their - time in ten a t i e l e .:` 'eugth to a charge that e hal been so of of th e - te ` - '!ed, and so often . refuted ee The decision bu t i t - " ( ntse had . been distina and unequivOcal ; er ten wa's necessary to reply to these- arguments as that trs the y . Were repeated. -He thought it strange to re le ' Hon. Baronet should' call upon the House o t h er v erse :its decision, before he produced any le ou rr(ltinds than those which had been so often Thett forward, and as Often rejeCted.by the House. th ' e \ °h l e Lord then entered into a d eta il e d rep l y th Hon. Baronet's arguments :he sheaved that e !le __ s . both heessity of the War had been acknowledged clearly the House and the Public ; and it had bee n . i eto t, demonstrated that Ministers had been forced the la te War. He then adverted to the efforts of, sttece:_te Ministry to save their Cciuntry, to the of ou ' r 'e eT S6 / our Army, and the glorious triumphs preciateANavy, which no one could deny or de_ th e fr • _As to the Constitution, he said, that, tile H eed ° 4l of speech that night employed by that it still Baronet, was a convincing proof W as ti :' ,_still remained in all its integrity. .It 0,1,4 the Of of our,Constitution . that it could • alter e d , ° ' repairs without the original fabric being , fercirNoble Lord then slimed, that the: Wi th 1 of tile Irish required vigorons measurese W ar re gard to whether or not thee object of the: re str was atrained, that was nothing to the Mir`' '36' Y. We were only to inquire, whether the AO of I vith r i ot rit e War could have been better attained elore., our assistance. Would Austria have done sepport`l"aed rnore wisely without our counsel and i,i fault the If the precautio ns of the Minister were f4 , ,, 1a.,1 tiley were a fault on the safe side. When er n first proposed io treat., it * was prudent in I.,;LtSt to ascertain the stability and duration the "„t_. Government.—ln short, the* condua of 3 ,, a wl,4,:i_itliters had been approved of both within Iteerneltii,ut the House. As to the Duty on tellu,lzhitedt.hought. the principle ought never to be isli to s _ . Ac it was a War Tax, he did not. !lie ttee _ s ee ,t continued in time of Peace ; but he 14 ee 6 - 11 : 1 should be reserved as our grand resource t iler ' y Y future War. It was the City, the Corn ;aeWMen that art hei_ to , lac called for the - Fax, and Ministers, ro _ r w qu est, u brough t it before Parliament. Par_ o tt c_n . 1 VI A ," c°rl dua °nth Ni 1 •• 1 P vir'g - L Le), i t 0) e Relation, (Lord Git EN t3 coti would not become him to an thine. •: 4 oh 44 was submitted say y b , to his Country. As to 44 he r k'ght Ilone Gentleman, Min. Istration (M 11° ' high in the late • r. , ITT), he considered the sal- ' vation of the Country as due to his talents, and the confidence with which he inspired the People.— Without his efforts, we should have bee,n at this moment smarting . under the lash of a- Foreign Usurper. The Noble Lord concluded by giving his •. unequivocal dissent to the Motion. Mr. ARCHD ALL said, after the melancholy information from the Hon. Baronet, that the late Ministry had levied war against the Irish as a people, he naturally wished to rise early in the Debate, if it were only to ascertain his own existence. How_ . ever, beford he spoke to 'that point, and to others,* which were all the Noble Lord had left to be noti ced in the Hon. Baronet's speech, namely, that the same Ministry had committed monstrous. aggres sions against the Constitution . of England, and had .degraded the, charafter of Englishinen,- both abroad and at home, he begged leave to acknowledge the complinients which the Hon. Baronet had paid to the Parliament of Ireland, as,a cruel, and even as, a suicidal body of men as one of them, whose grati tude was always among, the readiest .of,their feel ings, he would in his own name, and in that of many Gentlemen. near him, assure the Hon. Baro net, that they received all his 'compliments wi t h the most sovereign acquiescence. As to this - Ministerial: warfare levied against Ireland, it consisted in aOs of ,concession from the commencement •of. the War, to the Union of the Pa rl ;amen of , repeated concession, and disappointedconciliation. • He then 'mentioned the different popular Ads passed there; particularly the Militia. Bill, to which he said Ire_ land chiefly owed its preservation at this moment ; bUt which was not what the Hon. Baronet had-re. commended, a debating army ; and the Rolnan Ca . tholic Bill, of which the Catholics had-expressed an opinion, by publishing, that they should for ever remember with the Most lively gratitude the bene fits which they had received during the Earl of Westmorland's administration; all this war ,of Mi. nistry, the Irish people had happily survived, and found. they were, existing very well with them ; yet Lord Westmorland was one. of that Ministry, under Whose government, he said, more good law:; had been made for Ireland, and that Country was left in better circumstances, than in a ll t h e govern ments all the Lord Lieutenants, from Lord Went worth down to Lord Wentworth Fitzwilliam 'who succeeded him. After mentio n i ng this last Noble. man with great respea, he said, the next govern ment was ;,1. government Of self-defence .; it was as_ sailed by ,Rebellion and Civil War, and was obliged to repel force by force;—Could the Hon. Baronet say, that commotion. should go- so far, and no far ther, and that the hand which might raise a storm could be sure to allay it ? As to thelre--quartering of the Army, which he had reprobated, he should not defend, nor blame it. All he should say was, that it was not an at of the late Ministry, but of the great and regretted character, who was then the Commander in Chief, Sir Ralph Abercromby. - He said, as to the other points he recolleded of the Hon. Baronet's Speech, the House would determine what aggressio ns t h e l ate Ministry, had committed against the Constitution, when they considered the Union., with Ireland, a measure which was not only an improvement, but a security ,of the ,on -stitution,. which appeared to be welcome to both sides of the House, and which, he trusted, would transmit to the latest posterity, unless the Honourable Baronet prevented it—their names As the best -protectors of an United Empire.-- Let other nations, when they look up to this and see a people, amid 'various and complicated difficul ties of their own adverse circumstances, and even adverse seasons, still hOwever able and ready- to stretch forth a hand of protection and bounty to the ruins Of a Crown and Religion, which the storm of Revokition had thrown on their hospita lity ; and at the Same time their own Religion, and their overt Crown presei-ved with untarnished purity and-splermiatir,---objetts at least of envy, if 'not of imitation, to a suffering world.. Let other nations, when they think , of tell. the Hon. B aronet , what .is now ,the English charaaer abroad. And let this United Nation, when it looks back to the contrast on the one hand, their Ministry calling forth the virtues of the Country, and placing them in unison with thoSe of the Sovereign ; on the other, a selfish and disafFeaedParty,in their Jacobin uniform, of thread-bare: sophistry . and patch-work declama tion ; who once were troublesome, and might have become formidable, unless i n t h e co u rse o f t hi s .war of PrinciPles, as Power, they had not been defeated by arguments as well as by faas, and at last driven into - obscurity with ifi e indignation of the Public. Let this be recolleeted, and the Hon. Baronet have the pleasure and the pride to tell what , is now. the English charaaer at • home. He had moved the question, and ought to have the satia... faCtion of the answer. After this he would close what he had said with adverting for a moment to the Right Hon. Gentle man who had been at the head of that Ministry, who did not shrink from the responsibility of every department in it, and towards whom the Motion and Debate were particularly directed; he adverted to that Gentleman with those•sensations which inferior minds must feel, when they contemplate an objeft so far above them—but if after a long Ministerial life of difficulties, which could only be exceeded, by the spirit which surmounted them —if after years of unceasing exertions and undiminished popu larity, he chose to rest from the services of a Crown which he had asserted, and of a Country which he had saved, rich at least in the consciousness of his vharafter, and the patriotism of his labours—if after • this, some one should come forward to criminate his merits in the Parliament which had witnessed them, even he ,would presume to speak what the Right Hon. Gentleman need not condescend to speak for himself, that to this House it would be enough to sax, as his illustrious father said before him, "Yon know these bands are clean," and to his accuser it would not be too much to say, • Disce, peer, virtutem ex me, verumque laborem, " Fortunam ex aliis-" He begged pardon for interrupting the House so long, bet on a Motion- tending to, impeach such charaters, if he had not declared his opposition to it, he must in his own conscience have impaclied himself. Mr. 701VES thought no argument had been ad vanced against the Motion of the Hon. Baronet, which he conceived it his duty to support. ITPLGRAPE said, he thought it proper :that the Motion of the Hon. Baronet should be con_ verted into a praaical compliment to His Majesty's late MinisterS. He' should. say little with respeft to the argument of the Hon. Baronet, but it appeared to him that, with thOse sentiments which appeared ,to actuate his mind, he ought to have proposed certain Resolutions one by one, for the purpose of grounding .on them an Impeachment. The Hon. Baronet had not, however, been contented with .censuring the conduEt of the late Ministers, but the present Ministers, the Parliament, tht Judges, the Police Magistrates, the Governor of Cold-bath Fields Prison, as well as other persons, had come :in for a share of the censure. was very proper that the Speech of the Honourable Baronet should be made in that House ; ' had it been made elsewhere, at least so faras it regarded the judges, it must ei . ther have been treated with contempt, or considet ed.and prosecuted as a libel. There was one point which he could never hear mentioned without.de ' siring immediately to cootradita it, and thatwas rela tive to the systematic cruelty. whiCh it was alledged was.exercised in the Cold Bath-fields Prison : he was one of the Committee that examined that Pri son,•and he averred that no irregularity was com. mitted there, ..to which a remedy was not immedi ' ately applied. The Hon. BarOnet had adverted to` the expenditure of Public Money ; but was it to be wondered at, when every article had increased in price, that the whole expenditure of Public Money shoUld also increase The Hon. Baronet had Cort i demned, in the'strOngest terms, the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus At but had the Hon. Baronet so soon forgot th.e . cclntest in which we had lately been . engaged ? Had he forgot the Treasons and Conspi racies which existed in the Country ? Had he for got the Meeting at 'Copenhagen House, the Con-- vention in Scotland, or the violences committed by. the Rebels : in Ireland ? Had he forgot that one of those Rebels .had so far concealed his . dangerous principles, as rb induce many respeaable Gentle men to declare that they believed tiis-charafter to be perfectly virtuous ? He was astonished that the, Hun. Baronet, knowing all this, -should so make up his mind•as he appeared to haVe done. • Had the Hon. Baro - net ::imply proposed the Motion, ..he would not have proposed any Amendment ;' but as the Honourable Baronet had coupled it with a Speech containing the s e trongest censure that had ever been' expressed in -that House, he thought, therefOre, that the House should express its strong reprobation of then Motion, and at the same time give . a decided opinion relative to the comluft ,Of the late Ministers. He proposed, as an Amendment, to leave out all the words after; the word -" That," and to insert the words, " That the Thanks of the House shoal; be voted to thelate Administration, for their condtift 'during the late War." [A loud err of " Move, Move,l The SPE AICE4 said, that such an Amendment was certainly c ons i stent w i t h t h e f orms o f the Pdr liathent, but ex-remelv unusual; he therefore left it to the Noble Lord to chuse the: manner in which he would proceed. • Lord.•BELoaAVi said, he would withdraw his Amendme•it, and bring 'it forward as a Motion at another opportunity. • Mr. PITT said, he was aware the House would see it Nviitr9ll4 the peculiar, regard he must have for some of the topics which had been brought forward to night, .he was induced, ibr a moment only; to call its. attention, in the exercise of a privilege, which, he hoped, no personal consideration would render difficult to .him, but in which, he had, at present, no more to do than to state, what he con ceived to be the right ,mode of proceeding, in the matter now before the House, and which he did with a feeling that ought naturally to belong to him, he being personally concerned in the event. What would, or should be the event of the Motion, ,he was nor going to say, nor would he venture to conjedure, , after what had passed ; nor would he say one word on the argument for or against the original Motion ; but he hoped he might be allow_ ed to suggest, that the Amendment proposed by his Noble Friend, though certainly within the letter ,of the Order of the House, leaving only a single word of the original Motion, and changirg the Whole sense, was tertainly against the genet al course of proceeding in the House, and, therefore, it ap peared to him better, not to prOCeed on the Amend ment of his Noble Friend, .who; indeed, he could not help saying, - had intended it kindly to him,.and those who composed His Majesty's late Government: :hat, however, was a snhjeZt which he did not wish . _ i to dwell upon, nor was t,a subjea proper for him to . consider : What he would humbly suggeit to his Noble Friend and the House, was a consideration of the matter which was before it, The House met to.:day, with only a vague and imOerfedi notice of some Motion to be levelled against the late Ad ministration, with no knowledge, forthe.Honour- able Mover gave the House none, of the particular points of that Motion,_ which manifested, as he thought, a want of. that accommodation which the Houseatleast (whatever might have been due. to individuals) might have expeded. But he hoped his Noble Friend would have the goodness to recolle& that, whether the House ought to assent to, or rejea the original Motion, whether the notice of it had been deficient or ample, yet, that as to the Amend ment proposed by his N o bl e ' F r i en d, there was no notice whatever; it would therefore be not indeed an unprecedented, but an unusual course to pursue this. Amendment, which his Noble Friend was inclined to propose he hoped, therefore, for the sake of the House, and if hi; Noble Friend would allow him to add, of those to whom the Amendment related, he would not now bring it forward. He begged pardon of the House for pre,. suming to speak on this subjea, hut the recom-' tnendation he had taken the liberty to make, ap peared to him not altogether unworthy of its acceptance. Lord BELGRAVE said, he should not have moved the Amendment, had it not been for the Speech of the Hon. Baronet, as it appeared to him, that after such a violent Speech, it was necessary for him, in a manly and proper manner, to express , his opinion. He would, however, withdraw the Amendment. The SPEAKER having put the Question tor with. drawing the Amendment, Mr. BUYVERIE objected to it. The SPrAkr.tt observed, that the -Amendment having never been stated from the Chair, no ()ices: tion was necessary upon it. Mr.- FOX spoke to order, and observed, that the SP EAK E R having put the Question that the Amend. meat should be withdrawn, it was of course the pri. vilegc of any Hon. MetnUet to speak to, that Ques tion. It was not altogether ttousual to move Amendments similar to the present. The discussion of the Main Question was then proceeded on. Mr. Alderman COM B E said a few words in a low tone of voice, the purport of which we could not condi. Mr. ELL/SOYsaid he had given his approbation to the conduct of the late Ministers with the ut. most satisfaCtion, and in common with a great ma jority of that House and of the Nation. He was convinced that House was not to be led astray by Sound a!ld Fury signifying nothing. No Eft had been brought forward in support of the Motion, which could induce any Grand jury to put a man on his trial, and if he was sitting as a Grand Jury. man, he could not conscientiously, upon hearing what had been alledged by the supporters of . the Motion, consent to put any man upon his trial. He had heard much of Bastiles and Cold Bath Fields, but he could not discover that any abuse of power existed. This Motion appeared to him to be more •direded against the. Majority of that House, than against Ministers; but he had always understood that the Majority ought to govern the Minority He could not help congratulating the House, that the Motion was broughtlorward at the very' mo. ment of Peace, when, whilst the Hon. Baronet wits asserting the Country to be ruined, the People were displaying . the greatest confidence in its re. sources. He should-decidedly oppose the Motion. Mr. BOUI 7 ERIE said, that much had been pro mised during the War, but little had been per formed. He thought this was a Motion which called upon the house, without reference to any Adm;nistration, to inquire how the War haul been COnduaed. He could not, therefore, conscientiously give his negative to the present Motion. • Sir 80 .11 ERT BUXTON tv,:ig; decidedly hostile to the Motion. He thought that, instead of gain ing nothing by the War, we had gained our objet}. It 'had been-alledked.that Bills had been passed ini mical to the Liberty of the SubjeCt ; he admitted that;ihe Suspension of the Habeas Corpus An was in.,'some degree an infringement of 'that Liberty but the question then was, whether' that Liberty was not to give way for a time to the Safety of the Country ?...The Habea s C or p us .An was now, how,. ever, restored, an e d the Seditious Assemblies Bill was suffered to expire ; but he Would venture to assert, that there never was a War'accompanied by Rebel lion, in which so few persons suffered ; and it was surely better to pass a feu temporary Ass, as - a preventative, than. to bring a number of persons to condign punishment. With respett to Cold Bath, fieldS Prison, he was on two Committees relative to that Prison; and he was - convinced : that no-cruelty existed there.. Mr. ALEXANDER .said, that the Speech of the Hon. Baronet went to nothing but a charge of unqualified corruption upon Parlianient 'a4 a 1 on the late Ministers as the Agents of this corruption. There was nothing thrown Out • against • those Ministers which did not embrace the Legislature and the Government, and whicth did not equally tend to cast contempt upon 'all those persons by wriom the Government must be admini. stered. He was much surpaii,jd that so many great and able men should sit ; silent, and not attemp t to support the assertions of the Hon: Baronet by fads. He concluded by expressing, in .strong.terms, his 're:. probation of the Motion.' Sir WILLIAM ELFORD said, that he would : - detain the Hotte a few moments only, but he wished not to give a silent vote on a Motion which, though not in express terms, yet in its tendency, and coupled with the speech which preceded it, did certainly convey a criminal . charge 'against men to whom he thought this Country owed its prosperity, and almost its existence. He had attended to the speech of the Hon. Baronet, and found not one sylla b le i n i t w hi c h appeared to him to apply to the late Administration ;•—the strictures were all cen sures on that House, and indeed on the Parliament, for enacting those Laws, of which the Hon. Baronet had complained, and for supporting the War, . and the other measures of that Administration ; and the latter part of his speech was a gross Libel on the late Irish Parliament, and a tender Apology for the 'lrish Rebels.—He was so fully convinced of the • merits of those Right Hon. Gentlemen who were die objects of the Motion, that 'he wished the forms of the House, or rather the usual practice - of it, would admit of the Motion of Thanks proposed by the Noble' Lord being now made. He said his feelings on. the subjea went still farther, for he had long thought, that considering the unparalleled obligations which this Country owed to His Majes- , ty's late Ministers, some aflive proof of its grad tude ought long ago to have been manifested. When he saw those Right Hon. en tlemeri retiring from office, not with what used to be called emphatically, Ministerial Fortunes, not with that Independence which their , great talents would have procured for them, ,had they been. exercised in any other way than in the service of their Country, he ever should consider it as an eternal disgrace to the Country, ' and to the House in 'particular, that no one had before this time, moved for an humble Address to His Majesty, to implore that His Majesty would be pleased to bestow some great and signal mark of his koyal Bounty on those Gentlemen,. which that House would make good. He was sensible of the delicacy .of the subjeCt in their presence, but meant to eZpress his real feelings of their transcendent merits, and, of the unceasing:gratitude which was due to them from .their Country. Such were' the sentiments he had always expressed bath in and out of that House ; he doubted not he should retain. them to his latest hOur, and he •most, heartily a nd decidedly, gave his negative to the Motion. The Gallery was then ordered to be cleared, and shortly afterwards the Hotise divided. For the Motiop Against it 39 246. Majority 207 Strangers were not re-admitted, but we ttndec. stand that Lord BELGRAvE gave notice, that soon after