The Sun. — London, England, 1802-05-05 00:00:00

I II 1t HOUSE O,F PEERS TUESDAY, MAY 4. IWERI/IL PARLIAMENT. rouvszL were heard relative to the cause—HE:R ING oo DT being a writsof error moved for in th e C ou rt of Xing's Bench. The farther-hearing was deferred till Friday. The Royal Assent was given by Commission to the Ex chequer 13111 s Bill, the' Inconie' Tar Repeal Bill, and to .a pumb'er of private Dills. The Lords Commisgioners were ;he LORD CIIANCELLOR, Lbrd WALs uon Am, anti Lord ADVANLEY, The Sugar Average Bill, and a few private were brought up from the Cofrimons, and jevfrally read a first The Bins upon the Table were f6rwarded in their respec stage. .. . '• The Order of the Day for utnri-tortino. ? , their Lord- Alps beina read for the "consideratiori Lord GR ytm,t's hitended Motion relative to the Definitive Treaty Lord ;.1?4N1 1 71L.4 7 .. rose.,,, and in a. very,able, animated, and argumentative speech, which occu pied near two hours and a half, delivered hiS senti. n - ients upon the very iMportant subje4 in qttestion. His Lordship observed, tb-at' in :the interval tween the . 6=11 . 11n36600 of the Preliminary Trea ty to the completion of the.DefinitiVe, he had ab stained from'troubling their Lordships . ; 'to this he was principally induced l. by: the copsideratiOnof not wishing to . offer any thing that might wear the semblance' of embarrassing -the - Negotiations'. .the present circumstances had 1 - Chieq to tail , the attention of LOrdShips •to these important points, in which the - Treaties dif_ fe.ied from each other., He would first ObiierVe , upon that great an d important- consideration, and which, certainly,. should .supercede every 'pther'; and in considering this point, 'he was . led to view the ,comparative situation in which our Ally, Portuwl, vas plaCed'by the late Treaties, with respeft to our situation before the War : they'-were bouncP.to sti :pulate for the integrity of the . Dominione; of that Power, not Withstanding which, the elle& of the Definitive Treaty was, to confirm the eesSion of a 'Territory to Spain, not indeed, particularly . ' 'im, portant to Great Britain, but %'i.th a reference.: to the principle Which' it went to 'establish, 'namely, that, the protediDn of Great. Britain Was 'not a'stif .cient security to her Allies—her cessionsin Ame rica were, however, of More direr' importance to this Country ; and these, by the elred of the. Definitive 'Treaty, were rendered even less secure than they had been previous to that measure ; theseit even declared, Portugal had assented - to, but - he contended - it would be More wise and magnanimous policy to haVe shewn'that - we would not suffer' our Ally to make zuch burthensorne or disgraceful conditions 'a s .t he Price of Peace. It may b e alledg-ed the interven tion of the British Government prevented the ces_ sio7nl made to Spain by the Treaty of Madrid,- but the whole. of-her sti:4i.datiotiS' to ,FranCe by that :Treaty were suffered to remain.—Another circurri ,stance attending the Definitive Treaty, and WhiCh was a departure from the Preliminaries, was the .*node in which the . Congre ss a t 'A m i ens wer e con aiiaed by the latter it was settled xhat,the Ne .r b otiation should be in - concert 'with our .Allie s , but the fact was,- that the Allies of France Only "7 , 7,;ere. sadrnitted,-those Of Great Britain were . excluded.--The Tre;ity . was signed by the iQi rlisters of France, H-olland; and Spain,. .and on the other side by that of Great Britain alOne Not only the most essential interests with respeft 'to Portugal were so treated, biit those of' Naples also Merited a particular consideration :-. that,: however, would be too wide a field to enter into. He had-a few farther observations to add with resped. to Portugal. -The cessions in Eur Ope and Arnerica were not the only points : the provisions of - the Treaty of Ma_ • drid tendered it* impOsSible to execute 'the Methuen .Trepty,•and' this consideratfon . the more' seriously .iffeaed us, as there was a period (he could assert the it . the history of the War,' in ‘yllichPOrty .gal_ran the risque of impe,nding destruaion sooner than relincluisWthe Methuen Treaty with this Coun try. The new boundaries of the French s'ettlenients in South only gave thern - the command ; of the river Of Amazons, but the command of the Erazif Cornmerde of Portugal ; and - the tom_ nand of an East India NavigatiOn in time of war: From these points . respeeling Portugal he would proceed to the consideration of another of our Al lies, whO for his attachment to the catise of Great Dritain was obliged to beCoMe 'a reftigee in this country, his property sequestered; and some of his family and dearest relatives at the mercy of, the • enemy. He alluded to the Prince of Orange and the adherents- of his., House. - They Were told in that HotiSe that it was by the deSire of that Prince that -his affairs were nor mentioned in the Prelimi nary Treaty, .and that,due care' would he taken of his intere:its, and those of his adherents, in the befinitive Treaty. But . what was the real case ? that assurance was soon departed from —no stipu- . latiOn whatever vas made for the Adherents of that illustrious House—they' were :left to the mercy of the enemies of great Britain, and suffered to re_ main in a state of exile;—,and 'this was done at the very moment, when France took care 'to sti pulate in behalf' of every Jacobin Incendiary in Europe. kfis Lordship next referred to the i Bth Article of the Definitive Treaty, which relates to the compensation to be made to the House of Nas sau, upon the wording of which, he animadverted With 'a considerable degree of warmth : Proceeding then to the consideration of the losses of the House ; of Nassau, hesaid, they possesSed estates, proper ty, and seignories, particularly in the United Pro .vinces, amounting to more than roo,oopt. a year, be.. sides immense personal property= -the whole of wit:, *as, without the least plea of justice or, of reatl, confiscated by the Batavian Republicans, and for what ? Only for the Prince of Orange performing his 'duty to his own, as well as to this Country, in issuing orders to the Fortresses in the Dutch Colon'ies to admit British Troops, in order that they might be held in trust, not .forhinisell or for Great Britain, but for the lawful government of the United Pro 4/inces ? Under these views, lie thought a full re. etitution shOuld be demanded., and the strongest in.: s f luence of 'Britain exerted in his behalf; instead of whieb Ministers were content with the provisions (:)-( the Article he had alluded to, but .whichomitted to ascertain the-Manner in which the compensation Is' to be Made, whom it is to be, paid, and what ?re the obligatio ns with roma to those who should pay it 'YV LlaC MUSE ti elr OSIIIpS riiimc On ,r, colleding what they were told, of two of the Con. traCtine, Parties to this Article, immediately after the signature, retiring, and executing another in strument, without the knowledge of the -British which the Batavian Republic was exonerated'7otn supplying any fait of the pro posed compensition? He would not :now inquire how far such a 'Contrad ,could be bindinz., or - valid; ' but -he - would ask what their prcl- ships could think of the gOod faith of the .Other Contrading Parties. The next point which he had to direct " their . attention to, was .one,, which in view of national good faith; was not :of,-equal importance, but in .other point's of view t was very important,' he meant the' cession', ,of the dpe of Good ,Hope ; the Framers of the *reaty projeCied an Article,' by which it was to be rendered a free Pori, and open to' the Commerce of all the world ; and this measure-was . held out as giving up a burthen:. some posseis:io', - 'and, securing at the same time all the advantages - of it;—lneontradidion to this, he had, 'however,' no hesitation' to assert, Max the cession of the Cape had giVen a severer blow to the safety, commerce and security of our possesions in India; than any other stipulation that could be made, short -of surrendering the Island of Ceylon into the hands . of 'France 'itself ; 'however 'an opportunity would, again Off4,.for discussing that' point, which he pledged himself to dd...L-In periods of War, this cession would be . incist Severely- felt ; by the relative stipulations, an equal number .of - Ships of 'War belOnging,to each ,of the Contraairig Powers were to be' admitted, of course France and her Allies would have - sib Ships, when ,Great 13ritain could have "only t'wol;' and he argued, that from the regu lations 'with' respect t'o' the Port of the Cape, that when the Fren6 had the superiority in those seas, all 'their ships 'Would be admitted,.but when we were superior in 'that quarter, a contrary 'proceeding would take place ; from the effed of these; we 'should be obliged to maintain a Fleet of from 7.4. to 30 sail in the Indian Seas, in . order to place us . in an equality with France and her Allies; and, notwithstanding, it was said that-the Cape was ceded on grounds of Ceoncitny . Frorri 'the subjed of the CaPe, his Lordship proCeedecl to that of Malta, which, in order to render really independent of France; should be retained in our passession., :the best. thing that could be done, 'would be .to place it under the proteetiob of IlusSia, - a Power which could easily supply.he number of troops requisite f6r its defence, and, besides, by its rank in the Tole of. European nations, 'and iMposing - inituence and power .oh' the. Continent, .Could• effedually• secure it from 'the power of Fiance ;. hence it hap pened that this proposition in the Preliminaries could not be carried into effect. He would not then inquire with re_sped the mode in which this important island was-disposed of; he would re fer their. Lordships - to the opinion of the French themselves upon that point ; and this he read from an extrad from the Mercure de France, a periodi cal 'paper published under the sanction of the French Government, and which asserted, with a reference to the admission of a Neapolitan Garrison there, that, " As long as the island. of. Malta isNeapoli tan it would tie SO says Bonaparte," said his Lordship; " and as an - humble follower of him, so say I.',' He en eyed into rather a detached discussion of the arrangements which were made with resped to the Island of Malta, and argued With great force and ability, . that the effect must be, diametrically opposite to What was prOpoSed by this Country : and, he contended, that the Funds proposed . for defraying the pences of th e 'E sta bli s h ment , on account of what had' taken place, in consequence of the French Revolution,' and the injustice and aggressions of that CountrY, would be miserably inadequate. He wade a few general. observations upon the proposed regulations, respeding the inhabitants of the re_ spedive ceded territories, which his Lordship seem_ ed to argue, were not founded. either in true pdlicy or justice. ~ He next proceeded to consider a stipulation in the Treaty, for which, he said, there' Was no precedent upon record, namely, that which ,went to"'surrender the claims of British Sub_ jells upon the GoVernment, of France, Losses -sus tained before the War, o r at t h e commencement:o f the Revolution. In these periods, 'property of English Subject,, in the French Funds, to a con siderable amount, was confiscated, which was done chiefly by means of that ouprincipledinanceuvre, by which the French Financiers confiscated two thirds of their Funded Debt, in order to enable them. to pay the remaining third.—He next ad verted' to the stipulations respeding the Pri soners of War, Foreign Troopg, &c. which, par licularly with regard to the payment of the expences incurred; he censured as vague and in. definite in every point of view; and with regard to the balance in our favour, even when it would be ascertained, we were left, by the Article, to get it as we could. -- These 'were some of the leading points, in which he contended the Definitive, in stead of being more advantageous and secure to this Country, than the Preliminary - Treaty, as the circumstances which had taken place ,in the interval of Negotiation, required it should ,be, was on the contrary more unfavourable and in. secure ; there were, howesier, considerations of another nature and tendency, which were of the most serious importance. He alluded in the first instance to the O'on-renewal of antient Treaties, which he would contend was a principle in the pro cess of 'Negotiation equally novel . and injurious, and in illuStrating these positions, he again referred to, the French Official Paper he had already quoted, which said—" the old Law is destroyed ; a new public Law commences," and which principle might be most destruetively applied by France in 'her futu're projects of aggrandisement ; and they might well •s'ay to us, that, abiding by the Treaty olAtniens, which in efrea ordained a new Law rif Nations, that we bald no right or title to inqUire nor was that the worst, for though these Treaties were ineffedual on our part with respeCt'to France, we were bound by the letter of •them with regard - to other Nations, and which must certainly lay the seeds of future quarrels and dissentions. Ad ded to these important considerations, there were others which were more of the nature of omissions than of positive _stipulation;, but which were of equally injurious tendency, He first adverted to the point of the honour or our Flag in the British Seas not being asserted, and which would, in an incon ceivable degree, go to abate the spirit of our Seamen, on whose ardour and exertions our best hopes alway,s • depend - 0; and this point was settled by formal .sti pulation in the Treaty of 4783.': Another point was the omission with resped to the regulatton the Gum trade, .of the extent and importance of which lie spoke shortly in detail. The Log_ wood' trade' 'was the -next -- .tapir‘ - witich•fell—u-nder the I, ! Ttable .Lorti's observation, and on the great importance of this he also expatiated. He ,then' obser - Veit Upon Wliat had fallen from a' Noble 'Lord onr a former evening, to the effect that Arhar .peyer ,claitpsi,should be demanded by France, would be, fotinded on the arguments - ,orged Nothing, hoWever, could be a greater misunder-_ standing:—Never could any man . .possibly be less the advocate for France than he :was ;, and if the cause were never pleaded Tut by him,' it would be very Feebly 'urged in4ed.2 . .-2His inion upon the ' died of the om.;ssions With respea to the naviga tibirof'the Eastern. Seas remained" unaltered. In the Tr r eaty of 1783; it was stipulated; that V. , , e should• continue quietly to .exercise our rights in that re- sped ; and these were held-,4 such high importance, that the Treaty of 1787;Was negotiated principally with the view of ascerta" these,,clairns, .and_to avert a War which was just about to be entered into, in consequence of the unfounded pretensions of France in that respect. He thought that a distinct-ex planation should 'take place, even now, with France uptin this point, which May be effected in the course of five days, and before the cession' of the Cape, &c. was carried into effed.— Fie then touched upon The recent acquisiti9nS made by Frqice on the .Continent of North America, and adverted to the nnfavourable andgenetal effects they Might - have upon the interests - of .this country in that qyarter, particularly with respeta to our West India Commerce, in periods of war. From this • topic he , pissed to the acquisitions of territory. made by France on' the Continent of Europe, and the serious conseqUences with Which' these were fraught . ; • and draWing to a conclusion, he recalled to the recollection of the HouSe some of the leading passages of the last speech- . of the illustrious King W 4 WAN!, -which ought, he said, ever ;o be impreSsed upon their 'LOrdsliips!.minclS respeding the aggrandizement of 'France at that period, in consequence 'of a Prince or:the House of 'Bourbon being placed on the :Throne. of Spain, by which the French King would become master.of the'whole Spanish Mbnarcby; in c s 9l ; *: quence of ivhieh this .Country could never experi ence the blessings of real Peace, 'bin continue to be e4osed to all the expellees. and inco kceniences of War. This reasoning, his Lordship contended, • applied most emphatically to the state, 'of the two Countries at the present pericd ; and after further expatiating upon these general points- with great animation and ability, and the vital importance Of • the sobjed in question, in the discns'ston of which, not only the dearest interests of the natipn, but the charakler of that House was, involved, his Lord ship concluded by moving, tc That this House do on Friday se'nnight,' take into eonsideration 'ate Definitive Treaty of Peace.!' Lard pELffilm said, he should not attempt to follow the Noble Lord through all the. statements which he had made, and all the arguments whiCh he had used ; hut whilst he admitted some Of the points.urged by the Noble:Lord, he could not see any, reason why the consideration of this subject should be delayed for. so long a period, and he :shOuld therefore propose, that Wednesday thel2th should.' be substituted' for Friday, the i4th. The Noble. Lord then, commented in_ a very brief man- ner on some of the statements of the - Noble Lord .(GRENvILLE). He wholly denied the inference drawn by that Noble Lord with resped to India, conceiving that it could .not be incany way sup ported. With respect to the non.renewal of for mer Treaties, the revival of those Treaties could not be - in this instance expeded, as many of them were entirely inconsistent with the present sitv tion of France. As to Portugal, it was expressly understood, that the integrity of that country was to be preserved as it existed at the beginning ache War. With. respeCt to the Prince. uf. Orange,-.an indemnification:was certainly held 'out to him ; and ( though he admitted that all lead not been obtained for him which could be wished; yet, that nothing had been obtained, he wholly denied. The'Noble Lord briefly touched upon some other points urged by the Noble .Lord (GRENVILLE), his . comments upon which we could not distinctly hear, but de. dined discussing the subject at length on the pre sent occasion, and concluded by moving his amend ment, to substitute Wednesday the - i zth for Friday the r+th. Lord THU RLOW observed, that the Definitive Treaty, by omitting the renewal of former Treaties, did not, as argued by the,Noble Lord (GRENv r L4E) change the public law of Europe, but left it where it was before, to be altered or new-modelled, as expediency should suggest or circumstances require. The Earl of CARLISLE said, that from the great importance of the subjet which it was proposed to discuss, from the variety of circumstances resped ing it which called for attention, and from the num- bcc of papers which it might probably be necessary to move for, he should not have been surprized if the Noble Lord (Giz .8 NV ILL E) had called for a fur- ther delay than that which lie had proposed, and he did not think that the time asked for ought, to.be abridged. There were many points relative to this subje& which called for discussion, as the in_ demnification of the Prince of Orange, the con. fusion which had arisen relative to 'th; Treaties of and Badajos, and several other circum- stances, each of which might well occupy a day fof its separate discussion; and he thought, that at least the period first proposed by the Noble Lord (GRENVILLE) ought to be allowed for their con sideration. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he was ex tremely happy to hear the Noble Lord disavow those opinions relative to India which had been attributed to the Noble Lord in one of the French Moniteurs. He should have -been extremely mor- of ed if those opinions had been' founded in truth ; and the Noble Lord in that case' ought, instead ,of InoVing for the discussion of the Treaty, to have moveiT for . Jo His Majesty lo dismiss those Ministers . who had adviseo .. t ent , howeve r, dist such a -Treaty. He was coatioar , no such inference could be drawn , i and tha t rights in India could not be deemed by ,'n)''''''',,,.,,, common 'sense to be affeded by the "freaty. _ r eti did not conceive that : a sufficient reason had . be lie adduced by the Noble Lord (61tENv,r14.r.) for I . discussion of the Treaty. His Lordship was pru.cee'A, ing, when he was interrupted by spoke t° • f the Order i 'be , Lord entered into. a.sli,scussion of the merits o Totsreir'vc(n-fitll22ifAtflcllevl'in°d. Learned Treaty; he should claim' the same privilege. , . The . .LORP CHANCELLOR-said, he di d not in tend to enter into a discussion of the merits of 0: Treaty, ;but -`he prOtested against the argu ments used by the Noble Lord . (GR ENv ii.L.E.) who, he e°": tended; ;had • not shewn a suf f icient cause tbr their Lordships ,taking the Treat'' , into consideration.• It was .7agreed, however, to discuss this Treat/•' and the o n ly qu e st i on now was as ,to the daYI Wt respell to which', he could have wished, dig in stead of Wednes4y, the day after to-morrow ha s been proposed for its discussion ; as it-was, he I t clearly of opini on 'that the earlier cinr Qught t° be prefeirea. • ' '. • ' - itb Lord AUCKLAND s a id, th a t our rights , w ' A respect, to Indi a , w ere. no t i n t h e l ea st .affeL'e ri —„,:c bY. the non--renewal of;fOrmer T reat i es , nor was ti.. "' any ground Tor'N'yar; • ori the part of France, .iri•T n r ; sequence of that circumstance. He should no t T er l. enter into a_discussionnponthe subjea,,but he o . ' o the late Treaty of Commerce giver) notice of a. Motion for Thursday, rel,.,ative ' and France, which lie thought there was , 11° , ,sne,,s cessity,to Separate. from 'the discussion, \chi c ' . : I l e now proposed upon the , Definitive TreatY", fur should,: therefore, move to discha . rge the 0;4 0 -1 summoning their Lordships for:that - day. . ' d Lard GRENVILLE explained,said, be ha and , b i o no' ohjeEtion to, the day, proposed by the ;I:c1 - Lord (PELHAM). ' ' '.• between this uountry 171 4.• The LORD CHANc ' ELLOR explained. The Amendment was'then carried. . ° reie% Lord AUCKL AND m ove d to discharge t 11.6 for summoning their Lordships for Thursday' T , e ,ber Lord I--Iow4ND wished to knout, w " - Mo , the oblelord intended to 'b r i ng forward 135 • tion- on -any . future .day-. Lord AUCKLAND . said, he' should irO je . i tfor observations, which he had i n t en ded to ward on that subjea, a part of the (reher 3l on Wednesday' ' - ' The Order Wgs-discharged. oaf' Adjonw 0 at 4 quarter p ast ei g hrtill tg-111°.. HOUSE OF COMMONS; TUESreAY, MAY 4 , Th douse attended in the' House of P eers rt ? o where the Royal Assent was given by commi ssi r to the Ipcomp Tax Repeal Bill, the Excil ec l`' Bills Bill, anA several Private Bills. Th Bill hr I the Port of ior the ..mprovement o t. I...oikion was read'a second time. Sir ! Rog ERJ PE E moved the Order of F o 4 r; for the recommitment of the Bill for the Regu' Ll. of Appienti,ces in the Cotton. Trade. roifl7 The House having resolved itself into a Mittee ? Mr. S TANLEY i n the Chair, 11 , of Mr. BURTON sa ki, b e approved very.hle;' t o the Bill, as far as i t went ; hi s on l y obiet l i a , i - e its , the Bill w a s, th at i t was t o o con fi ne d i n its Instead of confining it to Apprentice's in ton Trade, •he saw no objection to e xtend what were called Free Servants, h Sir ROBERT FEEL said, he should to 11 1 1115 e thi* Bill as exten s ively 'be ne ficial I , s _ P,,,Ale ble, but he did not see h ow t hi s Bill Could, c ,: r to apply to F r e e S ervants , 'who were not care of their Masters. • the f Mr. WILBERFORCE w i s h e d t h at smile — f r t his time should be given for the consideration T o o , su.kjed, and hoped the Hon. Baronet wou ld ` wnt to the Chairman's reporting progress. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he should • h 3 l" - o 'roe objeCtion to consent to the Hon, Gentle position, if he s aw an y goo d purpose t hat c ° ,ivell suit from it ; but v er y ample time had been g for the conside rat i on o f t hi s su bj e a. t ill st Mr. BURTON was by no mea n s convince - this Rill cou ld not b e exten d e d to F ree Ser" r ' t • s t :a well as to Appr ent i ces , f or certa i n ly t hey re c r . as much regulation as the latter, t ini' Sir PEEL said, that one of them; ) % t ioa portant objeCts of this Bill wa s , to give e"` : jc „ w os' to the' apprentice children, hut it would he I— vv ' e re sikle to give the same advantage to those NO% al employed as Free Servants, b ecaus e they ss',. / d por ways working with different M as ters, and : perhaps stay above a week in one place. ijeLl Mr. WILBERFORCE e x p resse d "his ci:ociar approbation of the. Bill, but wished i t to g c it ther, and said he understood the provision s i 0 61. *ere to be extended, when th e title was , a ',„ t i g ht He was afraid that the provi s i ons o f the Bil f " s " t oo be evaded by perso ns empl o yi ng children servants instead of taking them as apprentic e , s " Bill Mr. STANHOP4 said, he thought tue ought to be confined to its present okie 6l :'„ r en-,. wished tlit the blank for the. number of r''Pr ac i of . tices, should be 'fill e d w i t h t h e wor d, six, inste Li ree. fil l e d This Motion was negatived and the blan k up with the word three: After some further conversa tion betw een A WILBERFO R Mr. BUXTON, and M r. NE ft, - . Sir IZ Ej ROBERT. PEEL moved that the `-' AID 1 t o• man should report progress:--which w;is The SECRETARY at WAR rose in conseVcove of a notice he had given on a former day, I r , to for leave to bringin a Bill to enable His MaJ°.'3.ncl accept of the offers of service of the' Yeoin:l,,"rcitl, Vol Volunteer Corps under Certain regulations• n e r , t hat that it was unnecessary for him to dwel l subjea, as the late Thanks of the House, (wh ic o f of then read on his' Motion) was a sufficienr,Pr°sotel the effectual Service they had rendered al e ,oil and how much they had contributed. to the tr°f„ces, lity of the Country, in very dangerous circuoistl'onser He hoped that their atlive assistance would 11° 6 erY be necessary to preserve internal tra nquilli t Y . o Con' Englishman must be convinced that his ow l AA , stitution was superior to all others. He "S i ro' that after such, a long and bloody War'