The Sun. — London, England, 1807-07-15 00:00:00

E :UAL, .PARLL-LWENT. .170VSE . OF PEERS. TUESDAY, JUL•i 14. The Earls of CIIRSTERTIRLD, PORTSMOUTH, and. IPA the oath 4 and their seats. In the Appeal " May v. Wharton,'' Mr. WETHER ALL wns heard fur the Appellant. ktirther ,hearing on Friday. Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY, Mr. floafiousz, Lord A.LTHORP.E, Mr. FANES, Mr. MORTON PITT, and several 'other Members of the House-of Commons, brought up the Traders Assets Bill and some Private Bills ; which were read a first time, and the -timer, ordered to be printed. • TRADERS ASSETS BILL. • The Duke of NOktFOLIC., with reference to this Bill, observed, that.at thin late period Of the ,year it was not probable that there would be that full at *tendance of their Lordships which was requisite for the dkuSsion of a Bill of this importance. He, therefore, thought that the further consideration of the Bill ought to be deferred till nest Session. A short conversation ensued, in which Lord REPE - 3DALE and.the Earl of Stavuos concurred in opinion h.the Noble Duke. The LOUD CHAN' • CELLOIt also had no objeCl , vn to the proposed post , ponetnent: Lord HOLL,AND thought the House shoidd wait before they c a me to such a determina tion, until the clauseo and provisions of the Bill were 'fairly in the pessession of the . House. The Lofty CHANCM.,I.OII. professed 'himself not unfriendly to the principle of the Bill, but at the same time. thought thwt matiylimitations were required in .order to carry into effect the real objet of the Bill.. H e wishei, however, to call to their Lordships' atten tion the old custom of the House, that the,second ' reading of Public Bills should ,be moved by softie Nehle'Lord who was prepared to state the reasons upon which such Bill was founded. 'Lord HAIIRON•, riv agreed in the propriety of this custom as tending, ,to keep up the dignity of that House. Lord Hot.- LAND declined - to pledge himself to move the second reading . , but thought the Bill would not remain on ' the table for want of some I.r;)ble 'Lord to Move it. After some further observation the converiatlon endod. AMF.RICAN INDEMNITYII.I4. The House havidg resolved itself into a Commit tee on this Bill, 'Lord Ifor4 . AND moved to leave out a Pream6le, and to substitute another, which: his Lordship read, - and which referred to the Navigation Mt, the Bill of Rights, the Acts respecting the Trade with Ame yica, the late abrupt Dissolution of Parliament, and the necessity thereby created for" this Bill, &e. Bills of Indemnity, the Noble Lord observed, had of late been very frequent, and therefore he thought it highly necessary to move this Amendment, in order to,give more solemnity to a Bill of this nature,:*and to slew that such Bills were not passed: as mere matters of course; The Question was put, that the words . propo,cd to be lete out should stand part of the Preamble ; Which was carried. The HOLISC remamcd, and Lord - WA I,SINGHAM repOrted the Bill withotn.Aniendment. .I.oqt lIOLLANT) .again moved his . Aniendirint, NVllial.Wati lily JtlT negatived. ANi !CAN TREATY BILL. On the Question for the third reading of this Bill, Lord HOLLAND congratulated the Noble Lords on the change which their opinions had under— gone, respetting this subjeCt, Eiillet,! they had come into oilier?, as whilst in opposition they had arraigned the Lanidtit tue late 'Ministers tor continuing the very:Ad which they rthve therirselyes proposed to cohtinue, warmly suppoited the present eheceiving it to be calleA for riy every ; roimd of exptldit-ncy. He thought it of e , .ist . :lltial importance both t o thi s comitrA l ano the Uirited S;:ites of Anted- Ca, that a frieniily intercourse shuck] be maintained: between the two Countries. The increasing pros- . .perity of Arne-: lea added to the prosperiv of thi s Co):.,11y, whilst the independence a the former de _rived one or its best supports from the 1.1:1,1 I,!and made by, this Country against the Enemy of the in dependence of all Nationfr:-:.The present ,Ministers, whet; in, opposition, had inthitsed the late :Ministers with repeated one:7ll9ns respectitrg their cork - Met to wards the United States of Amerii2a, they had now eo,he )oto possession of till the doeuthentS which for.re-: Itl , l iii.Vrottudi of that 'eondutt, filij tel n) publicly complained chit, it was to tic' pre itft.,l they could not discover' any objee thin ; as b they had broukpilhrwarl a ltlr cortinttation Aet which the late Al ioisters tho,,e!,to ii neeeslary to continue, 4 was evident, that 11 4w) t :trattrestliert tonneropposition, they thought the 111, biiteri right. A :4 4 d r, if LICST 'expressed his surprise that it tat i treh t necc.:,iiny to make any observa thee; oi , tins Lid, which was precisely the same ri: leoug , rttorwa . rd in the year,t aus, Wit did cu:...; that any inconsistency was justly chargenhk to Ivlinistefs, in- thus bringing forward this certainly did not 'follow that the pie beta, liiinisters were becessarily to change the CLW3 ,6 teii'c of their predecessors, When they cattle into o fr e: e, they.tOtind ,a new Treaty concluded by their, predeeesurs with the United States of America, no ralitielitron of which had yet been received. It therefore twcatileincoffitYc . tiit upon the present Minis pv,:nt oi 11014, to.propoie, the continuance of the trade with America upon the same footing on which it had been hitherto carried on. He (Auld out enter into' any diicassion ,respe6ting the rrecw TrealY'with. America,. because it was-ttot on their Lot4hips' Table lattt he..eould not conceiv e 'any ' doubt 413 to 111 Q propriety of continatic.g,,for the pre-- lit'ltt, alit till it 4 furtrier footiok, 'pike Eart of, 61111:01.x. inade.a few Ob4cl'viltiQllS on the inaportance of the trade.carried on by this court try:with the United Stat es of A mer i ca. - Lor d . Lia!,4„0.4 ) , ht explanation, 'observed, that ,the Noble Lad (Bathurst) bad plesed ever the con tinuatiun of the PkLt proposed by the late Ministers, at which period the,present 411isterg, theft in oppo sition, made so many objekiions. , . .. . • L o yd IfiottorrnY defended the condna of the preity.lt IL ini:At:l - 4 %viten in oppositton, 111 . !1 . cqntelided that no Miniqry mai have wished Lir:ales") .trontile, some opposition than the late MinisiOli experienced. Ti p , reaion of the oojeCtions made •vh.eo . the, comiq nuation of the Ad wasproposed by th e lat e Minis,' sters wage that there Was a N - on-itori ortatic . n pas3ed itl Amoric3 again this count r y, whi c h .ta was now stispeoded. Lord HO LLA no in explanation, contended, that the lion-importation Aa. was at the period alluckd to by the Noble Lord also suspended. The Earl of LAUDERDALE observed, that the con du& of the . OppoSition to the late , Ministers had been son harassing, and consisted of so many petty and, trifling Cavik, that he should have considered it disgraceful to himself or any opposition in which he might be engaged. Lord 111 u WRAY'S said he would, not : comment upon the conduct of the Noble Earli, or of the va rious persons with whom be had been associated, their eondu&, and that of himself, ,and those, with whom he had the honour to ad, were betUre the . public, and the public would judge between them. Lord HOLLAND again explained. The Earl of Ltuntta DALE ill explanation, ob." served upon the unconstitutional grounds on Which the present Ministers had come into office, and which authorised a - systematic opposition to their, measures. Lord MuLOtt Ein explanation, again referred to the judgment of the Public. Atter some further explanation, The Lotto CHANCELLOR observed, on the subje&. of opposition, that there was no etteaual opposition to the late Ministers until they opposed themselves: The Bill was ,then read a thild.thue and passed. The other Bills on the table were forwarded in their respeCive stages, and the House adjourned till to-morrow (this day). ROUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, JULY 14. It Wil3 ordered that the Dublin County,Ele6tion Petition .should be taken into consideration on the loth of 06tober ; tina the Tipperary County Ele6lion Petition on the t2th. Mr. BYNG presented a Petition from the Debtors confined in Newgate, complaining of the hardihips Of the Laws against Debtors.—Ordered to lie on the table.. On the Motion of Lord BARNARD, a new Writ was ordered for the eledtion of tt Metnber for the Borough ofßatidon, in theroonfofLord.Boyle, now Earl of Shannon,—Also for the Election of a Member for the. Borough of,Traleti; in the room of Sir Ar thur Welleoley, who bad made his Elution for the, ,Borough of N ow t own , for which also he bad been retkirned. • • BRITISH MUSEUM. Mr. LONG moved for leave to bring in a Bill to enable the Trustee s of th e British Museumlo sell, exchange, or otherwise dispose of, such parts Of their Collection as were not adapted to the .purposea of that Institution, and to lay Out.. the preduce in the phrchase of other articles better adapted to their purposes. Tlie articles which it was proposed to dispose of were Anatomical Preparations, and other things of that,nature. ,The disposal of th e S e art i c l eE , And the purchases to be made with the pri . iduce,were, to be under the.controul of a Committee of Seven, At the head of which were the Lord Chancellor, the Speaker of the House of Comtnitns, and the Arch bishop of Ciinterbury. , The establishment was now placed on such a footing, that it was calculated in every reveal to answer the 'imposes- intended by Parliament...---Leave was given to bring in the Bill. The London Port Bill was read a sf,:cond time, and ordered t i be contwitled to.;morrow.!-- . - it wait, ordered, that the evidence given by Mr. Blackburn. before the Commit tee, on the. State of the, West . In dia Islands, in the last Parliament, shouhl be refilTed to the Committee of the present Parliament - on,the same sub . pi:l. . - • • , On the Motion of Colonel FOSTER, the House, in a Committee, authorked the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland tor advance any sum not exceeding 1 5 (4k for each county, under Certain regulations, the the serviee of Hirspiials . and'infirmaries in Iretand. On the Motion of Mr. FosTrat, the stiott:;e went into a Committee, to consider of the Compensat kin to be made for the Fees Of Office aboliSed in the' de partment of the Customs in Ireland. FosTeu stated, that the CoMmission Itt dairy into the hex of Office in Ireland' had pill olatly recommended the extension of the Retrench ment and Regulation of the Customs Fees adopted in this Country to Ireland. It became' necessary, in consequence of the adoption of that measure, to make compensation to thoOtDeers whose fires were suppressed. The amount of the Compe r nsation to be paid wns about t 00,0001. He proposed turai: ; te this suM by:a . tax of six per cent. on Imports. and Exports, with the exception of Imports and Exports beLveen Great Britain and Ireland. The - Merchants would find. this tax less.burthensome than the fees. The produce would he about 90,0001. If this sum full short a little, the certainty and regularity of the payment 'would compensate the Otheel74 far the triilittg recludion.- He. moved accordingly that suCh a Compensation be made. ' • Atter a short Convertiation' bet Ween Sir JouN Niwyowr, who thought that the . Comper6itiott ought to be provided for by some more eqUal charge than One that fell wholly upon forcfign'lmporti :and Exporti, the feel being equally pall upon liitflOtts and Exports between - Ireland and Yriritain, and' Mr. 1. 4. 05Ti41, Who answered the tion. Baronet's objec tions, the Motion w.as agreed to. . •• Ott the Motion of Mr: C. WYNNE it waS.-or dered, that the Itesolutioti - of the Haute of tt t h of February,' t 789, requiring 'that Notice of: the Names and Maces' of Abode of Sureties for the Pro ateutiert of EleEtion Petitions should : be sent to the opposite Party, or' his known Agent, was referred to - a Seiea Cmninittee, with a view to provide - a re medy case in which the opposite Party has no residence in town, nor any known Agent: - Ott the Motion of Mr. FO6TER it was ordered, that to-morrow the House shonld - go into a Committee to consider: of certain MU relating-to the Tiade be tween. Great Britain and Ireland. . • ARMY, CLOTHING AND AGENCY'. • . - Mr. COCHRANE JOHNS 1:() Ivp withll t 1 to show i praeticability ofv:!ry rt)j;iioerat:* in the Artily Clothing and Artily Agency, Depart ments, rose to:move for a nn We ot which he liacl yesterday given notice of nib 1111,CItti01 . 1 t 4) fbr, and to the . prmlnaion of whicit lie did a, pit 46ritatid there was any obje;:tien. fne preh, t ►noov. of clothing the Army, by converting the Colonels of regiments into a •epecies of Wholesale tailors, was particularly reprehensible, le tire Agency beitartr meat .a!So much unnecessary. expellee: was, itictirrecL: On the phole he was convinced a saving of noless.. than 2 per cent. may be made on 4;lie (.20;n00;0001. now annually exeencle4 on llie — Army. He con L eluded with inoVjrig for the ACcoonts : ---(for the,,enti,.. me ration and deSeription of which see out Paper of . ),•esterday). Tice SECRETARY at will( liad,no of eaion : to - the produCtion of the Papers, farther, than that the subjeffil they alluded to were now under the Consi deration of the Com Missioners of Military Inquiry, 'who would shortly report upon them. The sub jab were certainly most iniportant, and the atten tion of the . Wat Office and of his Majesty'S Govern ment Were particularly direCted to therm, with a view to make- every practicable saving to the publice;— Under the circumstances 'of the. Commission of Military Inquiry having directed its investigation to the,inatter, and of its being necessary to go to a con 'siderable .expense for Clerks to make out the.Ac- Count, he put it to the Hon. Gentleman whether it 'Would be desirable to presS the Motion. • ,„ Mr. ROSE was . conndlut that bradopting,the plan of clothing now in ,use with respect to the invalids,.' a. saving of front 100,0001. to J 60,0001. ' would be praClicable on the sum now expended on theclothing of the army, which was from 800,0001. to k,000,0001. A plan, suggested by the Paymaster- General, was under the consideration of his Ma jesty's Government, with the approbation of his Royal Highness the ComMander in Chief, for tak it% the clothing out of the hands of the Colonels, . allowing them a liberal ,compensation for the advan- _ taps they now derived from it. This arrangement ' woad be more satisfutaory to the Colonels, at the • same time that it would be highly beneficial. to the -. public. With respea to the Agency Department,; that too had been under 'consideration : but it was to be feared, that' no considerable saving could be made in it, by establishing a General Agency Office, at least none sufficient, to,„ee,mpensate, the great convenience that was felt from, having Agents . chosen by the Colonels thenselveS.:--4-Te submitted to the Hon. Gentleman opposite, the'grop l riety .of , waiting fur the Report of the Committeelg Military Inquiry. If that Report should not go.-as 4 as, the Hon. Gentleman wished; he might ni01,..e,' firtiii: 1 ther step he may think proper. . ". , :?-n.:.' lit:i •11 Mr. WINDHAM thought it best to'leaiie. Wise matters to. the Committee of Military' Incluiry : in. the first instance.: Both subje6ls, the clothing And the agency, had engaged much of the cotisideratcon' of the late Government,. with a view' tb the procti•-• cability of some savings upon them. - His inclina-. • tion was very much in favour of the plan mentioned by the Right Hon. GentleMan,.opposite, and'thit not so much with a view to economy, though that' iiiii-'' portant objeet also would be promoted, as in order to take the Colonels of regiments out of the incon- .. gruous situation in which they . were placed while suffered to a6t as clothiers to their respeetive corps. With respea to agency, that matter had been under consideration so long since as when he had been in the War Office, and the result 'of the delibera- • tion was, that no saving ,could be made by ' the, adoption of a general plan, sufficient to compensate the loss of the convenience now afforded by the no mination of his own agent by every Commander of a regiment. - Mr. COMB/INR JOHNSTONE saw the strongest reagon for the production of the Papers in tliarowalrof so many official persons. that the sub jeet to which he called' the attention of the House, admitted, at least in a considerable degree,ofreform; aed that such reform, though many. years in' con- , TOMplatiim, was still not carried into effeCi. Pro bably, it he should omit to, bring the matter before the House now,-it would remain still to be said., alter the'lapse of some more years, that the reform was under considerat:on. ' • . After some further observations from the SECRR. TARP at WAU, who said the saving even on the clothing Would ,not be so considerable as some ; Mr. VVtNnum4, who 'said it was not so much to saving he looked, as to correaing the in .congruity of making the Colonels clothiers; Land 'Mr. ,17fuslussoN„ who said that only a, smill pro , portion of the 20,000,0001. 'expended on the Oily, went through the hands of the 'Agents. The whole such that, could with piiisibility be retrenched in this department, was at the utmost 67,9001. This thrlugh a 'considerlible - sum, wag far short of -wb4t some person's' expeated, and,perhaps it was a savin -not to besought, at the expense of the laconvek• niencies that would accompany 'it. The Pafiers AVere. ordered. Mr. WIND.I/Alf ; with a view-to the,more ccin i•enient and fair discussion of th'e New pilitary System, -thought it would b bt;l:r to deter;. the statement of it for a few days longer, when the, Country Gentle Men would be teinrned-frikM, the Assizes,. and when the Papeks calculated N,.,,she‘V the ctlcas of the Military, System, which ihe new one would go to disturb and derange, should be be fore the House. . :the SECRETARY at . WAE-said, he found upon inquiry thatAill . the Return's moved for by the Right Eton. Gentleman, were ready to be presented, except the Re.turr.s of, the last month from. Ireland, which was cxpetled by every post. If this account should arrive to. Morrow, the whole may be pr esen t e d, an d , Would be printed tithe to be in. Gentlemens' hands on Friday. The remaining Army Estimates relAted to . the Volunteer Expences, and did not At ea the: plan : proposed in the Last Session. The . Returns prepared may be presented without waiting forthat expeC.ted from - Ireland. The Cid E I,OR 'of the, EA:CHEQUER said it would be more convenient to bring forward tli. proposed plan on Friday than any other day. T 10,2 Army Estimates may be postponed till that business should be over, though these Estimates m iming only to Volunteer Expeuces and some other 1113 t of, In 45 MO! lICII bpd no connedion with the t0..1 , n es to he proposed. Mr. Witrntt.‘m still thought it wrong to bring for ward different matters - of so much moment on the .same day. • . • r . . Ai r . §ecret:iu p . tili it. G presetUeda Copy of a Let frt.. fom, Lord tiOwick (When First Lord of the Admiralty) to the Lords of the Treasury, relative to the halanee due to the owners of the second Swedish convoy. LICENCES, WESTMINSTER; Mr. SHERIDAN gave notice of his intention to pointout .to- the House, 63riy in the next week, the importance of interfering to corral the powers ex ercised by the Alagistrates in the City of Weettnin ster, -respea to granting or withholding Publican's- LiCences, and the still more extraordinary 1 owers exerted'in taking away those licences, in his opinion, not warranted by any law whatever. .....Mr..:FitisKisso7.4 presented an Account of the dis ,tribution of (2,000;0001. granted by the vote of credit last yaar also an' Accontit.of the profits of the Lottery for - that year; and an Estithate of the Ex }-ellees of the Commissariat for t 4 year 1 807 .-Mr. luskisson gave notice ; that he would . move' the Barrack Estimates in *the Committee of Supply to morrow. FROGMORE. On , the Motion of the CHANCELLOR, of the Ex. CHEQinit the House went -into a Conimideth on his Majesty's Message relative to the queen's House at Frogmore. The propriety of grantillg,thiS residence to her Majesty, for herself and the Princesses, was enforced on the ground, that all the expences of fitting it up had been defrayed by her Majesty. Leave was given to bring in a Bill to grant a lease of the place, to her Majesty during her life, and the lives of the Princesses her daughters. The Report to be received to-morrow. Mr. Bon brought in the Coffee WarehOnsing Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to-bortow. Mr. Hoanausg brought - tip the Report of the Comtnittees of Supply and Ways and Means. The Resolutions -were agreed to, and Bills ordeied ac cordingly. • . A Message from • the:Lords deOlaretf their Lord ships' assent to the American Trade Bill, Sir,John Senores Annuity 'Bill, and. Alit lililifiaibham Flospi - . ral Bill. - FIMD: Lod HENRY PETTY moved :the. - .order of the. Day for • going,intO a. CoMmittee on Abe ,Bill for the appropriation of the Sinking He. would re serve his observations-Jill he should" have heard sentiments of Right Hon. Cenknian oppOsite. ' • Tlie . .CHANaE4l,oll,fif 'Me EXCHEQUER contended, that -it was improper and unnecessary to adopt thikmeasikte l or teCome to any Resolution upon ,it• in the present ,Seasion. He allowed t hat great be • ofiffirid been, cleaved Jim. the ,pause . in taxation ititTOdustict - withAhis - .measure . ; but 'in considering i .iltrfurther: - adnpfiiier ót that repeSe h aliy future Session,lt woulcl be proper, to consider'ltow far it was checked by' being burthened with 'Ati increased Sinitin ;Oat d five per cent. The rn su re . had ..been :already:Odopted 'so fat; as was requisite for the Waitund Means of` this year. What it would be fitio : fio at (More period would 13e best determined by .future eire6mstanees, This thensure-• . .proposed the public creditor to receive. aipadvantied Sinking Fund on a' small part Of the debt now, as a consideration for being deprived of the growing ac cumulation of the whole . SinkinuFund at a future period. By the A& of 1792, it was provided that uoleis Parliament should establish other funds to pay the public debt, at farthest in '45 years, one per cent. shotildbe.set aside . for that purpose at the Exche quer,' so that it . must be paid, at all events,. in 45 years. The present measure, therefore, in making an arrangement to pay off the debt in 45 years, gave the public creditor the very worst re-payment that by law he was entitled to. The precedent of lord Sidmouth's interference with the Sinking. Fund, by no means went to hear out this measure. Whets Lord 4idmonth,in funding 97,000,0001. at the closing of the last war, made a new arrangement of the Sinking Fund ; taking advantage of its produce fo t that tune for the imrneditne exigency, the publicere ditor was compensated by giving up the surplus ov e r whichw lti o o u l 9 d . b H e e o e r m e bi 4 l io , c ( 1 ) c u t 00 0: it ih O ve O n l cs . ua a triroe y t ' ,l e l a t m r s , er. he a e P re P I l u c r a a entered into a variety of statements to prove, that by the plan of the Noble Lord the most distitia disadvan t i ne would accrue to the public, if they could allow themselves to be deluded by it. He deeply regretted that, the expetation had been raised in the country, that :during The period of war no greater annual loan Would be required than J I millions, an expe6tation which there was not the slightest possibility of being, realised. He concluded, by hoping that the House not come to any decision on the subject, but leave it in an unprejudged state for the considera tion of another Session. Lord If PETTY reprobated the idea of any fur ther delay in the decision of this important gdestiOn, .which was only a contingent on those which Parlia ment . had already sanaioned- by their cousenti and to which the approbation of' the Throne had bean given. In proceedi ng t h roug h an elaborate deteocq' of his, financial. plan, he took.occasion to comment wfrit heA:oticeived were 'some unnecessary e '3C 7 p,enditpres.of th? present Administration, and strerity , AyreComtnet t ded the: strictest cee Q ti or ny hi the .preatit'awfid crisis of public affmrs. Runctistii4 replied to the arguments of tho Noble Lord. .. Mr. DENT said his ol.)jeaion to the pion of the NOble Lord Was,tl - a t it was e nt i re l y built upon theory, He wished it, therefore, to be deferred to the next sepipp. , • Mr. MILEY ADDINGTON sup . ported the motion ofiiis Noble'Fri en d (L ord Henry N'qty), and dc*Phd th e -Pleasure of his, Noble Relation with.liespe6t, to,the Sinking Fund 41 1802. Tile CHANCELLOR of the 'EXaIIECIIiER /indNr. HILItY ADDINGTON mutUally explained, Mr. LONG declared that he had entertained strohg objeCtions to the measure of the Noble .Lord in 10.2, though he had deferred to the opinion of his late Right Hononrable Friend. He saw no reason for pressing the proposition of the Noble Lord oPpo - Site this session. Mr. D•AVIES GIDDY thought that, there did not appear any necessity for pressing the subjed this year. MT. VANSITTARt defended the plan of his Noble . Friend, and• thought that the time for requiring of. the Public Creditor, ank: sacrifice .was, when they had an advantage Ircim the augmentation that had been made this-)A:ar to the Sinking Fund. Mr. IWSE, though he had entertained consider 'able doubts as to the measure adopted in 1802, bad yet got rid of those doubts in consequence of the circumstances under which it had been brought. for ward. The plan of the • Noble . Lord was founded upon an accumulating d e bt, an d a' deCrra,it,g Sink ing Fund ; but the original plial of his late Aiß l 4 Hon. Friend was founded upon an increasing Siok lug Fund, and a deCre,lsing Ekibt. The,Question wa, then put for going into'a Corm,- mittee, and negatived without a diviiiOth A new Writ Was ordered for the Borough °f