The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-05-24 00:00:00

13(PERI4L I‘ARLIAMENT. ItOga Of COVISIONS—Tau RSDA T, Mar 41. tatalaill STANLEY b.ought up the Report of C Siete , 'open the claim of the Duke of Athui. r,s,eoing a 6rvilifirtistise fur h 4 rietit in the isle of Men.•:-.liie.l he moved to Ito blots into e3nsideration on Tip.sdateriext. tip WEN omose.'. the Motivat, And viciebnjd a Ta . if ray her papers, he thor.ght the lidutt have It, is older to decide 04 the validity 4.1 Cta claim. Ilc uan Amendment. ti t the Rep.ort should h, Liken into Wastiderotion on Wedthesday, the rah of In thyra may IP;tirtte br eaatnining Into all the necesaaridocivine..ts. - A Sok ee•Terotioo, of little fif no iot.oeit to the ',oldie, then matted, iaotwoen Lord tileoneivle, Mr. Creevev, Sir W one I, Mr. Rote, Mr. Pitt. Mr. Windham, and Mr 1. H Smote, in Which it 1114 ca.artided, on the one she, that an the ree•teary Paper. were sheerly bAcem the House, in an ap• pendlix to the Report of a former Committee; that so long a Polly woul.! endanger any rhscassion upon it in the present So elan ; and that it world be tine enough further to postpn if it thou . (' he thought reoni.lte, on To .sday next; and on ides (Alter side, lb •t ad litional Papers were aboontely 'met-ma w ; that there were other rights concerned, as well ai those of th• Nikki Duke ; and that it could be no great hardshi:i if a claim, whieb had been cenrested for fans years,should now ex. . . . . . prienee &delay of a fe.'s d m, itr it. disco...ion. _ On a disisionohe ows.lbers of wilich e e did not learn, it was decided that the Report should be taken into consideration on Tuesday neat. THE ELEVENTH RFPORT OF TITy COMMISSION- FRS OF NAVAL ENQUIRY. Mr. Serjeant BEST said, that, in rising to call the attention of the Honse to this important subjea, he was emboldened by the consideration of its being generally admitted, that the present was a time when PaiLament must feel it peculiarly incumbent tilt, to enquire into all abuses in the public offices. On the present occasion, he did not ask for any men than an enquiry, after which the Fli , use would be better enabled to pronounce a proper judgment. EV the constitution of this country, Parliament was under an obligation to watch it narrowly, and to take care that no inroads should be made upon it, 'notwithstanding which, it would appear upon ex *ruination, that there was scarcely any check of law, which had not been violated by the present ixscutive gay -rnment. Upon the topic c.f raising money upon the subjett, the Bank of caziand At was filly explicit, and restrained the servants of the Crown lions borrowing money of the Governors and Company, without the express authority of Par liament ; the obvious inference from which must be, that they nre eqnally prohibited from raising it indirealy in any other manner. At that period, it was net in contemplation, that any Minister would bave pruumal any sums of money by the i:see of money-bills. On the 7th of 3..:11;.,r7, 1630, jast before the reviilatiou, that Rime resoived, that SO money sh;ml.l be raised upon the sul-j-as of this country, unless sandioned by Parliament ; ard, un der the autiority of persons open to responsibilay. In support of tl,!s tui.•,ciple. he referred to the writ. ings . c:f Dr. who laid it down, that the Te' straints upon the raisin; of pub:icmorey were He• cessary to she frequent meeting of the Parliament. Though the pra:i ice, wlich he had now to complain of. might. at times, hate been convenient, he did nor think that it was ever attempted before by any Minister. in order to decide whether this sacred principle of the Constitution had not been violated, It would be necessary to recur to the fails stated in the Report of the Commistioners of Naval Enquiry. 1.73 that it ',mild be seen, that, fri mOft.l3oo to 1 302, instead of paying off the Navy Bills already nut. standing, the Executive Government had supplied them by the issue of others, to no less an amount than 4,300,0001. The sum of 500,0001. was at one time issued in pursuance of a note addressed from the Secretary of the Treasury, and that in a manner that seemed to indicate that the prallice was usual and regular. if this conduct was now to he sanc tioned by the approbation of the Ilottse of Com mons, be saw no restraint upon the Government levying, in the same manner, all the snms necessary for the service of the year. The note which he 'trendy alluded to was dated on the 24th of Oeober ; the Navy Wits, issued on the 10th of November, bad no communication whatever made of it to Par- %uncut, which met on the 11th of November, which was the very day following. This being therefore ♦ithout the consent or authority of Parliament, was an illegal transaCtion on the very face of it, and could not, as far as he could see, admit of any justification. It did nut even appear that there was at the time ary state necessity for that flagrant vio lation of the law; and if any such did exist, it lay with the Gentleman on the other side to shew it. The resolutions of Parliament, prohibiting sums of money to be raised for any public purpose, without its express consent, must therefore preclude the pos sibility of any defence in point of law. In addition to this violation of, the law, he contended, that the manner of discharging these bills was still more re prehensible than the tnant•.er of contracting the debt. The Administration did nut even so much as apply to Parliament for an indemnity, for what it had done, as was the usual process on all singular and unauthorised proceedings. It appeared in the Re port, that Sir A S. Hammond, the Comptroller of the Navy, deposed upon oath. before the Commissioners, that the same means were taken far the payment of these bills, as were usually adopted in regard to the other bills of 90 days. They were defrayed by an application to the House of Commons, without any specification, and, as if authorised, like sums for stores supplied, o:- for the general service of the Navy. The privileges of the House required that the sums necessary for the supplies of the year should be regularly and specifically voted; but the hills, of which he had to complain, were issued for the paymet.t ez bids of termer years. Hitherto the House of Commons -vas accustomed to look upon the public accounts present...A by His Majesty's Ministers as authentic documents and records; if such a system as t. i; <hoold be permitted, it mast inevitably shake the confidence of ?ornament in the a:connts of the Etecotive Government. The cha raker of Ministers was Urial:y comidored as superior to the prance of such artifices ; the I louse never expeaed that they would deceive than ; hut, unless this condnft should be reprehended, all implicit cin fasenre must be henceforward at an end. Thus mach he thought it necessary to state, in support of his complaint of the roamer in which this debt was both crantraeed and discharged. It was pos:ible that, upon inve.rigation, tbetvhole of these preceed isms may be explained and ;testi:Jed ; but as far as the instigations were yet understood, he could see no sling to indisost the House not to concur in the re port. If there re-ally did exist a necessity for doing eft ie should be brought forward and avowed; sei.t • • filmed of that, he believed, that were it net for the investigation of the Commission, the sullied would never have tome to the knowledge of the public. He :would not deny that great state necessity might at times justify a d-pArture from arid law; bat; he must contend, that it was not applicable to these proceedings, as it was impossible that such immedi ate state necessity could continue to subsist from 180 u to the year 1802, as should induce His Ma jesty's Ministers to have recourse to brokers, instead of making an application to Parliament. It could not have existed, on a reference to the language of the Minister at that time, who represented the finan ces and the state of the treasury to have been in the most abundant and flourishing condition. In his defence, he did not see how the Minister could al lege any thing but one or other of these two reasons ; either that the expenditure greatly exceeded the esti mate; or that a considerable part of the money voted for Naval services had been applied to other pur poses, which he believed to be the case; and if nut, it WAS the duty of those opposite to him to chew the contrary. It was represented in the Report, that the Navy Estimates always constituted a very great portion of the services of the year ; and the state ment was certainly a just one, as the Naval service was so popular in this country, that votes frequently passed without any great degree of inquiry; but after the estimates were voted, the money must have been ready whenever occasion called for it, if it had not been devoted to more unpopular objeds. On the other hand, the House was disposed to view the Army Services with an eye of jealousy ; and there was reason to susped that persons in office had taken some pains to disguise the real estimates. Upon the whole, he must conclude, that the con do .% adopted on this occasion was highly offensive, and a violation of the Constitution, unless the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite to /I'm (Mr. Pitt) could shew, which he would find great difficulty in doing, that it was not illegal. As the objeet of such delays must ha* had in view the preservation of the authority of himself and his colleagues, it furnished a very sufficient ground for the Inquiry which he meant to propose. lie said, he was rather disposed to pass over the smaller sums, amounting to trom three to 4,0001. as they seemed to proceed from an error in the proceedings of the Navy Board ; but he could not otherwise than corn plaie of those means taken to provide for secret Naval services, not by the authority of the Hoard of Admiralty, which was the proper and legitimate department, but by an crder tmm the Lords of the Treasury, and only subscribed by one of their Secretaries : some of the services to which he sus peCted those sums had been Applied should not have been undertaken but under the smnion of the Lords of the Admiralty, who were aione responsible for them, and with whom no other department should la! allowed to interfere. The Comptroller of the Navy had no right to issue those bills without the positive direetiun of the First Lord of the Adiei ralty, and any order from the Treasury he was not authorised to obey—( cry of Ayer! he.ir ! from the Deasyry Beech !) If Gentlemen were inclined to dispute his position, he need only refer to the order of His Majesty in Council, dated the 4th of June. 17e6. by which the Comptroller of the Navy was required to issue money to the orders of the Lot ds of the Ad miralty, and acziount for it afterwards to the Com missioners of the Navy Board. The same order then went on to prescribe, that the secret service money for the use of ti.e Navy should be under the controul and responsi! 'at). of tl.e First Lord of the Admiralty for tee time being ; and, of course, the Comptroller of the Navy should not have paid at tention to any °tine order. All the powers of the Lords of the Admiralty were immediately and exe cutively derived to them from the crown, and yet, in one item, the Report of the Naval Commissioners included the issue of 100,0001. by order from the Lords of the Treasury. The provisions of Mr. Burke's Bill—a gentleman, than whom no man ever lived under the British Constitution, who was better acquainted with it in all its parts—prnhibited the abuse of secret service money being applied, with out the authority of Parliament. it might, indeed, be true, that the regulation of that Bill applied more particularly to the expenditure of the civil list but neither Mr. Burke, nee any other person, could, at that time, suppose, that there was any other fund but the civil list, which could be recurred to, or that Navy Bills would ever be issued for that purpose. The civil list expenditure did not. like Navy or Exchequer Bills, come under the revi sion of that House; but when secret service money was defiaycd from the civil list. the public and the House bad the security of the oath of the Prime Minister; for the time being, that it was not improperly applied; but here there was no security whatever ; and the only account ren dered of the 95,0001. was merely in the letter or requisition of a Secretary of the Treasury, though the law did not allow of any such security. If Ministers were allowed in this manner to go on from smaller things to greater, the consequence may be that millions would be squandered without the sanc tion of Parliament, as was done some years since in the case of Messrs. Boyd and Scofield. It would Se capricious and inconsistent in Parliament to sanc tion a eonduet contrary to the law which it pre scribed in 1796. It seemed that the service he al luded to, and for which this money had been granted, was of too delicate a nature to be entrusted or com municated to the Commissioners of the Navy Board; though, if the very respeCtehle persons em ployed in that department were not worthy of con fidence, they must be unfit and unworthy of their office. Of the appropriation of this f 15,0001. the House and the pllblic as yet knew nothing; nor. were they ciNcially informed of the other service, for which 16,0001. had been issued, which was also represented es of a very delicate nature:: though there was nut a waterinan upon the Thames, and scarcely any man iu the country, who was not folly aperised of the tomes Stone Expedition. On the present occasion, he did not mean to call upon the I louse for any immediate judgment, as was very properly dune oa the subjs.& of the Tenth Report, when the resolutiens were farmed on the admission of the parties, sante guilt was indisputable. The *pert, however, hal placed the Howie in a sime tioa to demand a Committee of Inquiry, which he could not suppose would meet with any opposition. as the Right Hon. Gent. (?dr. Pitt) had declared the:: he would trot resist any inquiry, and particularly such as would go to the investigation of his own con duet. Perhaps the Ministers might he able to mate a justifiable ease before a 'Committee ; but as they wep bound to look to the laws. as Well as eatat4i ency. and as they were not ectitleil to set so Oseir own judgment against the law. the House should call them to an account. for the uke of the Cottsti- tution, which was guarded by the statute enatted on the occasion of William 111. .joining that both King and Ministers should be bound to all ac cording to law. The Ministers theniielves had re cognised this principle, when they applied the motion of an l lon. Friend of his upon the Roman Catholic Petition, not on the ground that the thing itself would be dangerous, but as they deemed it hostile to the spirit of the British Constitution. He then concluded with moving that " the whole of the I Ith Report of the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry be referred tc a Bele& Committee, to report their opinion upon it to the House." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he did not rise to oppose the motion, but to express his approbation of it, as he was convinced, that the result, as far as regarded himself and others, would be completely satisfaeory to the House. But, however desirous he might be of re ferring the wiwle oldie Report, there might Ise cumstances which would, probably, induce the House to divide it in such a manner, as should re- fer one part to a Seka, and the other to a Secret Committee ; on the reports of both of which, it would have afterward.; to decide. The Hon. Gen- dernin referred to the praticeof renewing navy bills, as k is quite novel, and tending to supersede the opinion of Parliament. Against so dreadful a charge, he thought it only necessary to say, that even the Report of the Commissioners of Naval In quiry, so far from alleging any thing to criminate His Majesty's Ministers in that respect, expressly declared, that though some of the proceedings might be deemed irregular, they did not appear to be done with any " indite& view." He admitted to the fullest extent, the position that both the King and his Ministers were bound to govern this coun try according to law ; and, therefore, he could not but think, that the Learned Gentleman had unne cessarily wa ted a great deal of his eloquence, in en deavouring to prove, what lio person ever attempted to dispute. He might, however, have recollet ted, that Parliament Was always in the habit of making good any unforeseen deficiencies iv the naval service. In doing so, it had a&ed upon an economical principle, by which millions had been saved to the public in the course of the last war ; and if these defii iencies were not regularly paid, the consequence must be, that the credit of the Government would be de stroyed. It was impossible in the estimates exitaly to ascertain tie number of men, the quantity of stores, or the expeuces of the viettalling the navy, weal and tear, &c. In the progress of a war, His Majesty ntight find it necessary to encrease the number of seamen, ships, stores, and pro visions ; and as every one knew that the prices and expences were liable to ary, they c.•uld there lore admit of no accurate estimates. Since the Revolution, it was, till of late years, the praftke of Parliament to vote the sum of 41. per man per month, for the service of the navy, which included all the expences of pay, stores, provisions, wear and tear, &c. but as that never was found sufficient to cover the expenditure, he found himself under the necessity of proposing an encrease of it, to 71. per man per month, about the commencement of the late war. The Motion he then made, necessarily recognised the oright of creating a navy debt, as well as finding means to discharge it, without which, that must important branch of the public service could not possibly go on. The praiflice since the Revolinton was, that the Navy Bills out standing should be paid in course, that is, that those which were issued should come first in the order of payment; but, Ai there was no precise time limited for paying them off. the accu mulation of them went on progressively till the year 1794, when he proposed, and the Parliament enal ed, that they should be payable in fifteen months after date. l'his was found, at that period, to have a very beneficial effett, compared with former years : when, at the close of the American war, when navy bills weie frequently at a discount of 181. and at all times of from 131. to 141. per cent. In the year 1796, ant-titer regulation was adopted for making the bills at three months after date, which kept up the credit of the country, as they nem regularly dis charged as soon as they became due. It certainly did away the discount, but did not, nor was it in tended to, prevent debts from being contra ted fee extraordinary purposes. All that the Learned Gen tleman complained of was, that in the Autumn of 1800, bills were due for services actually perform .d, the holders of which, though left to a fair option, agreed to renew them for sir months longer...— " The Learned Gentleman supposes (said Mr. Pitt). that these Bills were filtitions, and, as such, he has represented them ; whereas, nothing can be more remote from tie fat. They were 10:11s draw ton the Navy Bpard ; the totbl amount of the Navy Debt was laid before the House, and they were, to all jaunts and purposes, for Navy Services, pre cisely. The Learned Gentleman then says, that no account of these bills had been laid before the House, and that, therefore, this was a very repre hensible mode of raising money, without the con. sent or knowledge of Parliament. How he could make out well dolrine, he was at a loss to know. He Roped he would come before the Committee, and prove these assertions ; for, certainly. Gentle men might to be very well and accurately informed, before tney assert any matter so roundly ; and yet, if it were even true that this money had been is sued, without the express consent of Parliament, there mght, according to his own argument, be many circumstances, that would fully excuse and justity such issues. The Learned Gentleman could nut have to learn, that, towards the close of the session of that year. this country, in addition to the other enemies she had to contend with, was threat ened with the additional weight of the whole North ern Confederacy, which caused our Naval exertions to be much more extensive, and which, of course, produced a very great increase of unexpated, be cause, of nnforeseen, expen;es, in that particular department. Such was the absolute and immediate necessity of equipping a large fleet, in a very short time, that provisions, and almost every other arti cle wanted for the use and equipment of it, rose di fatly from forty to one hundred per cent. above the usual prices. Under these circumstances, it was for the !louse to judge, whether there could I e any thing very criminal in His Majesty's Governtnen. I. issuing the bills in question,"Whiel: r it is not and can. not be denied, were expressly issued' for Naval Ser. vices, and never applied to any otil!isciirlsose what ever. But the Learned Gentlemat'giaes on to state, that this proceeding went on from OS.inber 1609, t o the Spring of 1802. He, for his own part, was not answerable far the latter part'of the rierio t r o u u d vi to, though he wit not only willing, but desirous, t o give every possible explanation to the House, rei t . tire to the whole of the trans:talon. If the Learn. 'ed Gentleman had duly considered, or bed been .1,:- queinted with the ex iet nature of the business, r e would at once see, thet the issues of the year 1340 were due, and must be made good, in September or 03ober, 1811. At that period, the prelirnins. ries of peace were negocieting, and, he be:iered, the v hninve Treaty was not signed, or di r t take place, tail the month of April, 1302. He would ask the House, or any Hon. Member in it, whether it eouldise supposed that was a proper time for any Minister whatever to have thought of negc.. ciating and concluding a loan ; and that being th e situation of the col:ntry during the wllole of that period, was the sole calm why those Bills bed so long continued to be issued, without some me! particular end specific provision being made for the payment of them ; from that time they had beets discontinued, and had never since been resumed. He was extremely willing and desirous the matte& should be fully invesriAated, and minutely er.quir4 into, as, he was convinced, the.mnre it was sifted, the more it would he found to be for the ill:erev: eat advantage of the country; and as such, the more it would redound to the honour and credit of those who were concerned in the transaehon. As to ent Bills of ninety dap, date, one of two things must be the consequence. In making the b :rgain, yea must either make an allowance for eighty-niae or ninety days, and s he believed, with those must con. versant on :he subjeel, it was deemed a very tri fling difference. He thought the fraftion did net amodett to more than threepenoe-halfpenny is ore hundred pounds. tie had once mentioned the sub .o:l to Mr. Goldsmid, who, in his opinion, seas much skilled in all money trans:o;ons ; and he had stated it as so =mitten:a, that lie took no notice it. If, therefore., that Gentleman, who was uei versally allowed to be eagle-eyed in money traesee lions, made so light of this fraaien, he therught the Commissioners of the Navy Board could nut it very criminal in having overlooked it, and that it was not necessary to look with that miciospo i .o eye into every trap rah ion of this kie-i, entered ie.() on the spur of immediate and urgent necessity, as the Learned Geatlemen seemed inclined to sup. prise. There was anetfier point on wit ch the Le-arte ed G ntlemon had touched, which was that of mo ney for secret services. On this he should not sae much, for the reason he had given, as to divining the Committee into two, in the first place ; and se condly, that he might keep good faith with a meri torious individual, to whose integrity and talents the country was very much indebted. fie would, however, [eke up en himself to declare boldly. that any Committee whatever, to whom it may be submitted for their consideration, will say.' that it was a- trensaetion that alight is bay: been undertaken ; that it had every appearance and likelihood of etfraing a most important ser vice to the country ; that it required secrecy ; and. what no one could deny, it was strialy end alto gether naval, and paid cut of nevel money : but, that it cannot with propriety be inquired into by any other than a secret committee. The Learn ed Gentleman had said that money could not b• raised for secret service but out of the civ.l list ; but there he was mistaken, and went a great deal too far. It wan true, indeed, that the moss! mint ultimately be issued and paid out of the cirri list; but will he sty that a General, or an Admiral, abroad on a foreign station, having occasion to Au ply money for secret services, may not pay it ten of such mosey or fends as are entrusted to him for other purposes. such as paying the ships or troops: or that they teay nut teepedtively draw hills on the several departments at home on which they draw in other CANCS ? Surely no one can suppose there would be any thing dirge' or nncoi stitutional in this. I: would be impossib'e .n ilmse cases to expo& success in war, without such a power ; the fact is, it is not, that such an appliottioa is never to be disclosed, but that the performance fur which it was given shield not be disclosed. As to the Lot transeaion, the OA` son for not d sclosiee it nets, that it was not per formed. He was, however, very certain, that a was well known to the i' first Lord of the Alluirety in the course of whose adntir Lime's, it was heetso (Earl Spencer), and also to tiro First Lord of the Admiralty in whose admittistra:ion it was finish-l; and there c u'd therefore be no ground to doubt it. being bone fide a revel service. Under all thew cir cumstances, wis iig as much as any other petios could wish, that a full and:f t r inquiry should t Ise place, he thought the best wae w he, that the ne tem of the leareee Gee:lent:lo or any otter words to the same pus port, should be ittloPtedr with " exception of the money fir secret service. Ile would, ther :for:, pro rose, th it after the word re port, should be a ides!, 4. r xceet so fur as reletes ra the issue of Jaime 1. for Ferret services. The SPE kK l P hey g read the amendment ; Mr. FOX :,aid, he sh old no; have occasion to trouble th e /tsetse with mere th in a few short ob servations, as it was not his int noon to objet t the proposal of the Right Hun G eulemen, dividing the tee r Committees, wlii.h he the ugut was a eery far one. lle woh d otey to notice, as briefly as possible, two or three points which the Right Finn. Gentleman had touched on. Ile bad said, that it was not necessary for my Honourable and Learned Friend, who brought forward the motion, to state with so much precision, " the th e ' cessity of a Minister's always aaing acconfog. law." In this position, be totally differed from hin'i The Constitution had, for the wisest purpo'llt !'" pressly provided that it should be sot that peon"'!' was made a safeguard to the Constitution.; and 't wis row the more necessary to look to U. a.' Right Ho h Gentleman had most truly siv•ed. tint circumstances very fretpently had, anti most cicoh at tim I, which render it necessary for Kull to deviete, in some measure, from the stile! letter. the Constitution. He owned this was a DTA.? cs which for some tins out had grown very much 10 use, and, if sot 4 becktd, might go on to my! 01 6. nus lengths. 'I he Right Hon. Gentleman had g a• into the examination of the praitim of former I ' m : ravel% the issue of Nov &Ufa is 44,41" L,~--^ '" bat es e ligh' the tea m easo re 1 11 . 1 0 nj wb s tiln i li n a; l 7 3 g a e l ef o Y t l e t r-r rt n , tEbtutelil P Sete kO, twat t rtn. shoo