The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-03-22 00:00:00

Aare* rears ago. and it was time for the House to expect the result of the labours which it was said had been expended upon HELIGOLAND. Ir. HUME was desirous of directing the attention of the Hones to the expense incurred in furnishing articles for the use of the light. ' house at Heligoland. lie complained of the manner in which the itemsof charge for this colony were placed in the accounts laid before that House. Some of them were to be found in tht Anny Isseinnfes, and others were distributed and scattered over the pubic account*. lie thought the better way would be to submit to she House all the items of expenditure of the island in one view and Sn one table of account. The charge at present made for the light goes. was 5711. 9s. 6d. Now he thought the amount of the d'.:ea Deceived for the light house there should be stated, and the House wool/ be enabled to judge how far these were sufficient to defray the 'spews of furnishing the articles thr which this charge was made. Mr. if ERRIES said, that as to the tint part of the Hun. Gen. theman's objection, there would be no difficulty in arranging the accounts of the colony according to his suggestion. The dues of the light-house were, he could assure the Hon. Member, very in. to par the expense of maintaining it. The dues and the Mditwa-I necessary expense were certified by the Consul at Ham burgh : they were then sent to the Trinity House here ; and on being del, approved of, the necessary surplus expenditure over the dues ass anted. This item came strictly under the head of civil ex penditure, and it was therefore placed amongst the present F.sti- Itallea. r. HUME com_plained of the very great charge of private light ' - The r were burthened with a heavy el-- houses genera ll y. t o publ ic ehir whilst twenty or Silent private gentlemen were enriche d. He ilernaght that his Majesty's granting patents to individuals for this wpm woo productive of great evil. The practice had prevailed sosegpko• very late period. The dues of the public Board,' had Wow rodiaswil, and so ought those of the private ; and both the glebe cad private ought, in his opinion, to be placed under the Newel' i Ake of one Board. Mr. 'WALLACE said, that these light-houses were the property of individuals. Some enjoyed them by purchase, others by grant of patent. He did not see how the House could interfere with them. Mr. HUSXISSON di] not see how they could be interfered with. These private light-houses in some instances were, he ad mitted attended with abuse, and care would be taken , on the renewal of the present leases which were given to them, that the can. lenience and advantage of the public should be consulted. (Hear, hear.) Me. CURTEIS said, he knew that many great abuses had pre vailed to the system pursued by the proprietors of these private leght-heueee. .He was glad to hear Ministers say that due atten tion would be paid the subject on the expiration of the present WESTMINSTER ABBEY AND ST. PAUL'S. Mr. HU3IE was desirous of next calling the attention of the Hasse to the Item of 1,0311. to " G. Fludgenn, Chapter Clerk of St. Paul's Cathedral, in London, towards the expenses incurred by the Dean and Chapter in the cleansing acid repairing of St. Paul's Cathedral, and of the number of monuments erected there at the public expense, in commemoration of the victories ob tained during the last war." He should be glad to know on what authority this grant had bren made. Of Westminster Abbey and the practices' that prevailed there be had spoken before, and would have occasion to speak again ; but he would desire to know if the Dean and Chapter had no funds of their own wherewith to make the necessary repairs in the Cathedral and its monuments? Before this money was granted, inquiry should be made as to what was done with the fees which were exacted for seeing these monuments. Independent of their other resources, they had ini poeed s tax upon people for seeing these ornaments, which ought to be sufficient for cleansing and attending to the monuments. It was also worthy of remark, that both at Westminster and St. Paul's the Dean and Chapter claimed a right of property over these monuments, though they had been placed thereat an immense expense by the people. He could not approve of this grant until he sal informed of what became of the twopences and threepence that were levied on the visitors, at every turn, for seeing the Cathedral and its monuments. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not un dertake to account for the manner in which every farthing collected in the manner adverted to by the Honourable %lember WAS dis posed of. The Dean and Chapter of St. Paul's certainly had funds of their own, but they were in a great degree required to defray die expense of maintaining that structure. They had lately been at to small expense in certain reparations necessary in the done of the cathedral. This repair, from the altitude of the dome. was attended with great expense and difficulty. It was, he thought, the duty of the public to maintain those monuments which they placed in St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey, to cont. inemorste the achievements and the virtues of the great men of their count?). It was their duty to watch over and protect in a suitable nianner those records of national honour, which the gee. muds of the country and the liberality of that House had raised. (Hear, bear.) He agreed with the Honourable Member, that the fees exacted at Westminster Abbey, when he had occasion to visit it, were excessively large. (Hear, hear.) The mode of ex. battling the monument,' and various parts of the building was very inconvenient to the public. Visitors were driven about there, and ro opportunity was permitted of delaying and examining any par tinder object they may be desirous of inspecting. However he might regret, Government had no power of tntertering to alter it. (Hear, hear.) dlr. II Li E was glad to hear the Right lion. Gentleman con ic:ten the avarice of thaw exactions to which he had referred. Every liberal man must do so. It was shameful that those charges Could be made, more paniculatly when is was considered how ample were the funds and other resources of the Deans and Chapter of St. Paul's and Weetnauster Abbey. They actually wallowed in wealth, and ought sot to make such a demand as the present. Mr. W. SMITH wan surprised that this subject had not been taken up by a Committee of the House of Commons, more para. cularly after the annual complaints they frequently beard of these tees being excessive. The present charge was made, not only fur repairing the cathedral, but also the monuments erected there at the public expense. Yet the public were not permitted to see these monuments, which they erected at their own expense, without an additional expense for permission to do so. There was an iron rail at the north and south ends shutting out the public from a view of any of the monuments without pr yinent. The practice was highly improper, and ought to be investigated by a Committee of that ,Ifouse. Sir J. SEBRIGHT said he was suite ashamed when shewieg Westminster Abbey to strangers at the charge made at every tarn. It was most discreditable to the country. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME next objected to the grant of 4281. 12s. 6d. to T. N. Wittser, Ent. Accountant to the Board cf Cor niseioners for the Affairs of India, for having acted as accountant on the part of the public in investigating the accounts between the publie and the tact India Company, in conformity with the recommendation of tee Committee of the House of (hormone in the year 1805, from the eth September, 18T2, to the sth September, 1823, in conjunction with Wm. Wright, Esq. oil the part of the said Company, and to defray the expenses for the some period. Mr. HORTON defended the grant on the ground of the indis per.sableneeeseity of having a person competent (as Mr. W. was) to eiramine these imponeent account,. Ile was not paid by the East India Company, but was the officer employed on the part of die pdblic. Mr. HUM E next objected to the item of 3501. to J. Finlayson, Esq. allowance for services at five hundred pounds per annum, for halt a-year ended sth April, 1824, and that of his assistant at one hundred noonds per annum, for making calculations connected wish public business, for one year ended 10th October, 1824. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended that the calculation in which this gentleman was engaged was of the utmost importat.ce. He had a mind peculiarly capable and suited try the task he was engaged in. The ohject of these calculations was to make rut tables of the greatest accuracy as to the )•roisible lives of annuitants. In determining the real duration of such, lives he had already made 1010 f important discoveries, and Ltd ascertained the real duration to he greater than it was gene. rally supposed to be.' He was engaged an rectifying and improving on the various former calculations on this important subject. Thia wss an occupation of great utility to Governmera, particularly in respect to their annuitants, and those who were concerned in life-insu rar ce. Mr. HUM E understood that this gentleman had an office for the liquidation of tl:e debt. If his services were so important as they wrre stated to be, his undivided attention ought to be given to the auLjtmt. klr IMONCR bore testimony to the merit and services of Mr. Finlayson, from which lie expected not only Life-Insurence Com panies, but the public generally would derive great benefit. On the question that 1,2871. 9a. 6d. be g ranted to John Walker, Esq. Sopertntendent of the Winkel Eetablialiment in Berbiee —bills drawn by him on account of the expenses of that Esteblisliment— HU3IE felt it necessary to make a few observations on that HOGS. Some impatience being manifested by the Home, the Ihni. Member said, though it might not at first sight appear important, still that in it was involved the principle& employing the free labour d slaves. At present there were three or four thousand slaves em. ployed as free labourers, and that was done at the instance of lion. Members who were continually urging anti (eating on Government .sake the experiment. It turned out, however, that the slaves 411 Dot pay by their labour foe their support, but were a continual ine.utribrance on this country. Five years ago he had called the attention of Government to that circumstance, and sull in 11125 he found the same cause of compliant. Ile begged particularly to call the attention of the Chancellor of the Eethequer now to it, as he feared the Right Hon. Gentleman, from hit great press of bust. ones, had not time to look narreAvly into every thing. If be paid more attention to these matters, he would not, as then, place all at the disposal of the Colonial Department. The Hon. Gentleman, after some further remarks, submitted to the House whether it would not be better for 'the country to manumit the slaves alto gether than have them as they then were—a total loss to the com munity. It was unfair for Government to pay private individuals, IVest India proprietors fur instance, after the example th ey were teen.seives affording. When they called on them gentlenien lie would tell them to look at home. They can have no excuse for iveddling with, public property at the time they were talking of an infringement on private property. The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the cit. t'uoultatmee connected with the question were rather peculiar. Berbiee was originally a Dutch settlement ; the slaves belonged to OB.:Government, and were transferred to the English Clevernment on the taking of that place. A new system of management was peopoce to be adopted with regard to his Majesty's slaves, which H was supped might prove an usefullexample to other parts of I the Britiehdominton• s. They were placed under the control of Commissioners, who, he had no doubt, were good individuals • he Node no doubt they Password considerable seal, but were, ; like lawny honest Individuals, considerably defrauded. Tic slaves math tame iota the bends of Oovernmert. It was c er tainly Seta k the establishment did not pay its own expense, but that could be no reason for manumitting them. unless it could be shewn that their manumission would telieve the country front the weight of their support ; for surely they could not refuse to them support if they were unable to provide it for themselves ; for his van, he rather thought their manumissions would prove a bounty to idleness; it would induce them not to work, but rest solely on Government for support. *f he Right Honour , able Gentleman went on to say that however unsuccessful the attempt hail beer, still the obiect in view aad the motive, were good 'in making the experiment. 'f he House must see the dangerous consequoitees of any premature steps in so delicate an affair as the present. The interests of every man having property in slaves was intimately concerned, and therefore he deprecated any hasty steps, at all events let time be afforded for a further trial. M. PLO3I ER said a few words, which were inaudible in the gallery. Mr. W. SMITH denied that all the slaves, for whose support the present demand was made, were all able to work, as a great proportion of them were helpless children. The Honourable Gentleman concluded by saying, that the clearest inference that could be drawn from the whole matter respecting the Commissioners was, that all who wished to have their property well managed should go over and take care of it themselves. Mr. W. HORTON deprecated the continual system of attack made by the Honourable Member (Mr. Hume) in his department. With regard to the manumission of the slaves, be thought no measure more likely to endanger the West Indian interest than letting loose the Government slaves. Alter afew words from Mr. W. SMITH and Mr. HUME, in explanation, the vote was agreed to. The nextitern was the sum of 7.3811. is. 10t1. to J. W. Lush, Esq. Chief Bailiff of the Tower of London, to defray the expenses of his office for the year 1825. Mr. HUME objected to it. There were, he contended, fees paid to the officer more than equivalent to his trouble. These fees were always, after the good old practice, doubled by every succeeding officer. At present the fees received from persons going to see the lions, as it was railed, exceeded 3,000/. or 4,00 W. a year. . Mr. BERRIES said afew words in explanatio n, after which the' rote was agreed to. IRISH ESTIMATES. Mr. GOULBURN moved an estimate, the exact nature of which we did not understand. Ale. HUME said there was one particular in it to which he must object ; it was the salary to the Dublin Aldermen. (Hear.) Ile saw no reason why the Aldernien of Dublin should be paid any more than those of London. He begged the Right Honourable Gentleman to postpone the item altogether to some future night, as he was unwilling then to detain the House, and he felt it his duty not to let the vote go uncanvassed. Mr. GOU!aIURN replied, that the charge for the Aldermen was in accordance with an Aet of Parliament. Mr: HUME thought that no reason for not objecting to it, with is view to an alteration in the plan. The consideration of the vote was then postponed. EXCHEQUER BILLS. Oo the motion of Mr. BERRIES, a sum of 820,0001. was voted to defray the interest on Exchequer Bills. The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered to be brought up on Wednesday nest. COLONIAL TRADE. The House resolved into a Committee of the whole House to take into consideration the resolutions respecting colonial trade. and for affording increased facilities to our commerce and navigation, of which Mr. II USKISSON had given notice.—He proceeded to say, that although the resolution which he intended proposing was entirely in accordance with his Majesty's Speech from the Throne, and although it was strictly in accordance with the expressed and r:corded opinions of the House, in respect to the removal of those restrictions on trade that bad subsisted for some length of time, still he feared he must trespass on the indulgence of the House while lie entered into the motives which produced the alteration of system. When he considered the many and various interests af fected, and the alarms excited, when he looked to the predilections and prejudices that were attached, then it was, he thought, reason for going more at length into the question than otherwise would be necessary—( II ear. )—I f the alteration which he should propose were in opposition to the well-grounded opinion of the country—if he did not feel that the opinion, as far as it went against the new system, was erroneous, he certainly must pause before he brought torssard the measure ; but that new system lately introduced was not innovation, it was improvement—an improvement keeping pace with changes now made necessary by the change in the cir cumstances of the country,--(hear, hear.)—and when these circum stances changed, it became the duty of a practical statesman so to alter his policy as to keep pace with the changes of time and of circumstances.—(Hear, hear.)—He was no &defame for innovation. With this degree of qualification he, however, was an innovator— it was when he had the sanction of new circumstances for the an. plication of new measures.—(hear, hear.)—lie felt that the expe. ritnce of every day proved the necessity for that departure from old notions of trade ; still, however, there were :at interests at stake. and it therefore behoved the House to weigh the matter before they came to any resolution, or made up their minds upon it. The Right Hon. Gentleman went on to say that originally he intended to bring t h ree propositions before the House that night. The fist was respecting the Colonial Trade, with a view to the removal of certain restrictions that bettered the Commerce of the ('olonies. The second was relating to the prohibitory, duties on Foreign Manufactures, and the duties on the Exportation of 'taw Manu facturing Materials. The third proposition which he intended to submit, related to the Shipping Interest of the Country, and was with a view to the adoption of certain nieasures for its improve ment. When, however, he looked narrowly into the details of the several questions, and when he considered their importance, the interests involved, and the opposition likely to be raised to some of them, he felt it advisable to postpone the two last, and for that night confine himself exclusively to the first. And he would again entreat the patience of the House while he entered at some length into the colonial policy of the country. This was a most important branch of commerce; it was most fn. portant and, interesting too to those who looked at the long established rules that strictly interdicted all interference with co. lonics except to the Mother Country, that upheld such a monopoly and prevented all others from either serving or being served by them. Indeed, the only light in which colonies appeared was what might possibly be extracted from them, without the least regard to a reciprocity of advantage. If the House wanted an illustrauon of such a system, let them look to Spain, the country that carried it to the greatest lengths, and was Of he might use the expression) the most exclusive of all others. (Hear.) And yet, perhaps, if other countries were narroaly observed, they would not appear much less jealous. Every country more or less cherished the Idea that all the rest of the world should be shut out from their respec tive colonies. So universally did the system prevail, that it actu ally became a part of the international law ; and Prize Courts. in accordance with the principle, had not unfrequently decided that neutral vessels conveying the produce of Colonies even to the Mother Country, were legitimate prizes to the vessels of that very country. Had no changes taken place in the colonies of Europe within the last few years to make departure from such a course necessary ? What, was there nothing in the state of Brazil ? What was the present situation of Sr. Domingo? And, if a greater example were required, the House had it in the great Con sular and Continental State of South America. He a suld pass from these countries forming colonies, and would ask the House what must be the result of a consideration of those it still re- , tained—the extensive island of Cuba, for instance , and Porto ' Rico ? It was a matter of serious importance to weigh well the in fluence these changes must have on their own colonies What, could it be possible that any one would say that there was not a suf. ficient case made out ; or, that in the midst of so many changes this country should make no corresponding one ? Ile thought Eng land, as well from a regard to her own interests, as from a feeling of partiality to her colonies, should generously reciprocate the blessings of commerce; and he asked, where was the man who could deny that such a course would not be beneficial to themselves, as well as to the colonists? He was sure the House would sec the im. policy of going on further in the old course, and of continuing and, as it were, perpetuating& system of monopoly so totally in opposition to every principle of freedom of trade. Such a system of policy must eventually weaken the attachment of the colonies to the Mo. they Country, a circumstance which no man in his aenses could call practically sate or politically wise. (Hear, hear.) Ile entreated the House to turn its attention to the revolutions that had taken place within the last so years in that expanse of country between the St. Lawrence and Cape Horn ; and he called on them to I adopt such measures as would meet the changes that were occurring. It was necessary to pursue some course with reference to the coma. nental and insular commerce and navigation of this country as would enable it to meet the growing commerce and navigation of other countries, and particularly of America ; and it became those who had the charge of the commerce of this country, to weigh well and consider the best means of ensuring that object. With respect to the subserviency in which colonies were kept, he believed he might safely say, no country exhibited greater perseverance on the one hard, and relaxation on the other. To show how groundless were the apprehensions entertained of the ill effects of the contemplated measures, he would beg to refer the House to the state of Ireland. That country, until the year 1780, was held in the character of a colonial dependency. Only forty ears ago it was proposed to give her a direct trade to the West I ndian Colonies; it was proposed ! also to allow her to export glass to foreign countries; yet the I Ilouse would perhaps recollect how great was the opposition given to these proposals: it was declared that she had already received ' sufficient boors; that if more were granted its effect would be to make her ask more, and that eventually she would eat up the con- coerce of England ; but that, in tine, if it were not impossible to ! satisfy her, she would be then perfectly so, and ask no more conces- 1 sions. What did the House think England, in the fullness of her liberality, granted to that country ? he would tell them: England was at that time at war with America. and privilege was given to the Irish to export butter and beef to the Colonies. That was certainly great liberality, but it did not stop there. Ire land sent troops to fight for England to America. and in return she was allowed to export as much of her manufactures as would clothe her own soldiers. and provisions enough to support as many . eoldicrs as She had in her owu pay. (laughter, and cries of "Hear, (tear.") At that time there were petition,' from various parts of England, and it would be worth while to look into them, to see how far their predictions were accomilislicd. One of them was from Glasgow; it prayed that no concessions, either for the present or for tie future, be mails to Ireland ; that any con cessions must materially affect not only the interests of Great Britain but also those of Glasgow. (A laugh.) Above all he deprecatul granting to Ireland any the slightest interference with the sugar trade of the West Indies, to which the afore said port of Glasgow, as appeared from the petition, claimed an hereditary right. (Laughter.) The Right Hon. Gentleman pro. ceeded to say that a similar petition was forwarded from Manchester. The third petition 1113 from Liverpoi, a town which, had bat then THE BRITISH PRESS. lately risen to a State of prosperity and commercial opulence, and it was represented in that petition, that if those proposals were adopted that town and port would be reduced very speedily to its original insignificance. 1 t was not very surprising, therefore, that with these statements, so earnestly made in this House by such !exile.; of mercantile anti commercial men, it became impossible to sustain at that time those proposals for benefiting the trade of Ire. land. In the year 1779, after the defeat of these first proposals, a very limited proposal was made, it being confined merely to that of allowing Ireland to purchase sugar for her own consumption from the West India Colonies ; but that also VMS rejected. Soon after, however, circumstances occurred which made a different policy ne cessary. At the end of the year 1779 the American war broke out e and then very State necessity made it necessary for the Government to yield to that opposition which under other circumstances it would not have done. (Hear, hear.) In consequence therefore of this event, these oppressive restrictions continued up to the period when that Act was repealed. He would not go through all the details of what had been done towards effecting the melioration of our policy towards Ireland ; it would be sufficient to say that we had gone on from time to time removing one restriction and then another. Pre judice by degrees had given way, until about two years ago we had been enabled to remove every obstacle to what might be called the Union Trade, and that, proceeding in the same course, we had now ultimately:established what might be emominated a free coast ing trade for that country. (lieu, hear.) He had now taken a . • cursory view of those principles which had been acted upon towards Ireland, and he would ask any •Honourable Member in this House, or any person who had at all observed the effects of the mime thus pursued, whether any of those dangerous tesults which had been so tearfully progoosticated had happersed.either to the shipping,the ma- . nufacturirsg, the agricultural, or auy other interest of this country ? He would ask whether, after all that had been granted to Ireland, Fengland had at all suffered ? nay, whethee after every concession that had been made, England had not whaled in the advantages as well as Ireland herself ? He would address himself to that town which he was proud of having the honour to represent—a town which in its rise had exemplified in their fullest extent the great benefits resulting from a system, of unrestricted commerce—he would ask his constituents whether any circumstance had contri buted more to that resuh, or had aseissedinore to the growth of that port, than thine concessions? He would ask whether it was nut owing to this very trade with Ireland tint that very port, the ruin of which was pretended to be seen in the dawn of these mea• sures, had attained its present greatness? (leitle hear, hear.) He flared he was entering at too great a length into these matters (hear, hear); but he felt himself labouring under very great disadvantage when attempting to exemplify the benefice resulting from the principles of free trade, by the state of Ireland ; for e st tic time this policy was adopted towards that country, and since, there base been niany circumstances calculated to retard the great benefits which would otherwise have resulted to th it kingdom—the civil discord which unhappily existed in that country—the late protracted war, that bad so deeply involved this country and the whole of Europe in things uncongenial to the repose of commercial-pursuits—all these circumstances have tended to lessen the good which would have otherwise been felt by (inland from a system of free trade ; and yet under all these disadvantages it hail derived a most material benefit, and without those measures must have remained in a state of extreme distress. He would now turn from Ireland, and look at those provinces which not more than forty years ago turned part of the colonial territories of this country. He would refrain en. tering upon the circumstances which led to the separation of those parts from the Mother Country. He was sure a relation of them would not reml any teeing either of glory or of pride. But although these circumstances might kad to reflections not irrele vant to the colonial question, yet apart from that he would ask this Committee whether there were any Gentleman who really thought that that separation had been attended with any disadvantage to apr internee ? If there were Gentlemen who considered the people or this country to have been sufferer from that event, he would ask them to reflect on the importances of preserving those colonies whose commerce formed part of our own, whose marine formed part of our own, and whose people were an integral part of this country. He would ask whether it was not proper to endeavour to give them the benefit of a free trade, and to increase their strength by uniting them in one common interest, and retaining& firm connexion between them and the British Crown ? Seeing then in what a united state we now were in point of navigation and commerce; looking at the interests of the other colonies be longing to this Empire ; looking to the commerce which ere long must show iself on the seas by those newly created States whose independence we have recogeized ; and looking to the interests of England,as a maritime a andcommercial power,he trusted he should not be considered as harbouring any feeling unfriendly to other States if he were to consider by what fair means the protection of that navigation and the increase of that commerce might be effected and secured from other countries. From all that he had observed, and from all the experience which he had liad,he had come to this conclusion, that a systein of exclusion and monopoly tended to im pede and cramp the prosperity of the colony ; and he considered it to he a legitimateinference from that principle,that any thing that tended to the prejudice of the colony must be prejudicial to the Pa rent State; for that which improved the colony was advan. tageous to the Parent State. Begging of the Committee to bear in mind the general inference which he had felt himself bound to draw from the premises before hint, lie would now proceed to state what was our present system with regard to those colonies, and how much further lie wished the Committee to go. By tits Acts of the 3cl and 4th of his present Majesty, we had admitted the United States to trade with oar colonies with only one or two restrictions, namely, that the article of commerce should be the production of the country so trading, and the ships national ships. Ily these Acts the intercourse was limited between those countries. By another Act we have admittid a direct intercourse between the colonies and the whole continent of Europe, without any other re. erection or limitation except that of carrying on the trade in British shipping; but at the same time it would be seen not confining the trade to this country. The House would perceive, that in point of fact, when he conceded to America the trade with our colonies, it was with the United States, because the other States of America had no shipping; well it might have thought, therefore, that this would have beets received by them as an indulgence ; for they had offered os nothing in return ; no reciprocity of interest was at all made the basis of these concession? ; it was therefore with no little surprise that after this indulgence we found the United States pass a law that the shipping of British merchants trading with the United States should be subject to certain impositions and restrictions, until this country should concede to their shin ling a like freedom to our colonies, or any ether country. These atter words were particularly remarkable, applying, as they did, to every part of the world except this kingdom. This was really putting the matter upon a principle that had never been acted upon by any country before—that of saying that this country had no right to say that our own ships should trade with our colonies in preference to those of other nations. When the information of these enactments on the part of the American Congress reached this country, we had but one of two courses to take--either to forbid the intercourse of the United States with our colonies altogether, or by laying like duties upon American shipping going into those colonies. But wishing to take the moat mode rate course, and understanding that the United States had a desire to effect a negociatiun, it was determined to propose a more comprehensive measure, and such as he was going to submit to the Committee. If the result should be that we placed the United States upon the same principles as all other coun tries, and gave them the like privileges with the rest of the world, they could not have any reasonable ground of complaint; and if after all they would not consent to this equitable arrangement he then thought and hoped that the West India Co lonies would be able to do very well without their trade; a cir cumstance however, which he should be very sorry to see resorted to. But he hoped he might be allowed to ask this question. that, when America adopted this course,thinking perhaps that we could not avoid acquiescing in their curer's:ant and unreasonable request, lie would ask whether we were justified in holding front other Powers these privileges we had so freely granted to the United States ? Were we more jealous of the ships. of Europe trading with our colonies than with theirs? Were we more jealous of those of Sweden, Hamburgh, et any other ship.' of Germany, than of the ships of America: lie thought not. He thought that, looking at the interests of the colonies, and also of this country, we ought to encourage the intercourse between the pons of hurope and the West Indies ; and that we had as good • claim upon the trade of Europe as any part of the world whatever. lie should therefiire think there could be no objection to grant to their shipping the benefits of trade, with those colonies at least, to the same latitude as to other countries. But he owned it was his opinion we ought to go further. Ile was prepared to state that in his judgment we ought to establish the trade of the MIMICS with the different parts of Etirope upon the sante footing as was now carried on with Guernsey and Jersey, subject to certain prohibitions suggested by the nature of things; such as fire arms to case of war, and also as to certain staple commodities of the colonies. Subject to these prohibitions, lie thought we ought to admit free shipping with all our colonies to' all Europe under the same regulations as had been required from the United States; namely, that the cargo should belong entirely to the country carrying on the commerce, and that the ship should be a national ship. The result of adopting this course would be this; that retaining to ourselves all the commerce between colony and colony, which would, in short, be reserving what might he called the coasting trade, which was the coarse he believed adopted by all other countries in regard to their colonies, we should be giving a right of free intercourse between idiom colonies and the rest of the world. Of (mum it would be necessary, in order to cant this, greatly to enlarge the list of articles to lie subject to ditties and to increase the duty on others. It would he necessary to impale certain moderate protecting duties on those articles which formed the staple of the different colonies, as it would be obvious that by allowing a free trade with the colonies, many articles wonld be brought that were the produce of those colonies, and therefore it would be prudent to protect such. There were some which now paid at the rate of seven and eight per cent. ad valorem ; he should' propose to extend those duties to twenty, and some to thirty per cent. The imposition of these duties, ItoWever, in their detail, must depend upon the local legislature. The most that we t, could h ioeu Col oni a lo ses, u would be however, be to s Assemblies in u s u g ssee es , and ,tthere Tpure a i adpritoepett propriety the of e n 1 ei g,r 'Those that be i c esae sr. w ni :et io e hh)::0 uu s shie h se sh o uld ilbvsdaalifdi establish ottjatoi jealousy view proper eceiu,:o:eydwtoootifotri ttouhah their mrv o mi interfering sw p t thwe o :ern i t n fowe rt eligiblehtiino egleo u t, interests,wbe jtonah prote c t i onen t h eir t th ese it they course thereforeai vtrisiwel could of f ports th ese crt c a o i l : the warehousing system, as at present so usefully acted upon in this country, by allowing goods from all parts of the world to be de posited, so that they might at any time be retorted to for supply in case of need, add also for the convenience of commerce with other nations, lie apprehended this wualel be found very beneficial to Spanish America, where it might be expected a good market would be lotted. It .vtis therefore desirahle that there should be certain warehouses established in our colonies ; and he was sure he was not making an erroneous or visionary statement as to the advan tage to be derived from the edoption of them, when he reminded the Committee how greatly the United States had been benefited by such warehouses being established at New Orleans and at other parts. Having stated the general nature of the proposition which he wished to submit to the Committee, At appeared to him that the beneficial effects of it would be more greatly felt in the sugar colonies than in any other. They would have a chance of disposing of their productions upon better terms, having a larger scope of couniercial enterprise. But ' he owned that this was rot all the advantage that he looked to arid expected from this change of system : it would introduce, if he were nut very much mistaken, into thole sugar colonies quite a new system of things, a new description of persons, of manners, and of pursuits. Ile conceived it no only possibly introduced a new de scription of commerce. but also a different course of agriculture than was now acted upon. It was possible that, situate as those colonies were, in a climate as favourable for cultivation, they would yield other crops than sugar, equally serviceable and necessary. He knew not why they might not produce many other things besides that one commodity ; he was not aware of any obstacle to their growing indigo ; nor did he know why • great many other articles might not gradually find their way into those colonies. He trusted too from this change of system that we might hope to see • much larger proportion of whites (Hear, hear) inhabit them than at present. and he was sure that if such wet; the case we should have done much to add to the security of those colonies. (Hear, hear.) If he were asked to be more particular in stating in what way these benefits were to take etlect, lie would frankly own that he could not state. But neither was it in the power of any one the most extensively informed on East India affairs, and of the interests of commerce with that continent, to say, in the year 1813, bow the relaxation of the East India Company would benefit the commerce of this country and of India. it was stated, that benefits would arise from that measure, bat it wee not known how these benefits were to result. But be netits had accrued both to India end to this country from the re striction of that monopoly; and he was certain that whatever tended to • free circulation of capital and an unrestrained scope for commercial competition, it must eventually operate to the be nefit of the countries by whom that competition and commerce is carried on. He had not the least doubt that Cie West Indies would add a further proof to those of Ireland and the other places which had exemplified what he considered to be a great political and commercial principle, and which was infinitely more advan tageous to States than the strictest monopoly, established under the idea that the principles of exclusion worked fur the hensfit of the particular State which created it. If this system of tree trade were consiecred of such importance to these Colonies, which were but as mere sugar gardens to this country, in how much greater • degree would this change of system be beneficial to the Colonies of North America? There the whole population was free, and the people considered that whatever trade they did was for their own benefit and support. Under this change of sys tem, it was impossible, therefore, not to conceive a very great benefit to result to those colonies. He was not overstating the present population of North America, when he mentioned it at one million of souls. With all those local and natural advantages which they possessed—their rivers, their productions, and their fisheries—it was impossible, even if we gave them ro other boon, that they should feel in the liberal treatment of this country a desire to connect themselves with any other coun try, or a wish to shake off their connexion with us. lie would therefore say, that his change of system would not only tend to the benefit of these colonies in a commercial point of view, but would also tend to secure a perpetual connection be tween them and the Mother Country. Without granting these boons to others, he was going to say,—but these benefits to our selves, he ought rather to call them—those Colonies could not ntalntaid a fair competition with the United States. At this mo ment one of the greatest sources of trade belonging to Nova Scotia was their fishery. Their rivals were in the neighbouring provinces belonging to the United States. Supposing they took their cargoes to New York, they then were upon equal terms. But neither at the Beasils nor up the 81editerraneatt were they, as the law now stood, at all upon an equality; and if the Nova Scotian went up the Baltic, he could not exchauge his cargo for the produce of those countries. This gave an effectual premium and bounty to the fishery of the United States, and by this we lust the benefit of the trade of Nova,licotia. This would serve to exemplify the present defecate syettem. Having now stated all his views of the general principles, the details lie would not trouble the Committee with, but proceed to one or two alterations which in the course of the present Session he should propose to make. The Committee was aware that the anger of the Mauritius was paying a duty of Ills. more than that from any other colony. Last year he lind submitted a resolution to reduce, but it had been opposed. But upon every principle of justice and equity he did think that when we were going to place all the other colonies upon one footing we could not refuse to put the Mauritius in the tome situation with the rest; and therefore, although it was not in his Resolutions of to-night, it was in consideration to submit to the House an equality of duties on the sugar of the Mauritius and the West India islands. The other alteration was with regard to Canada. That certainly was not a sugar colony, but he conceived its staple was as important to be protected as any other ; that staple was its coin. This was an ankle not prohibited it was true, but owing to the high du. ties it was in effect so. lie conceived that there could be no round for apprehension that the admission of the Canadian corn into this country at all times would at all affect the agricultural interests. He thought he might state the whole importation from Canada did not amount to 50,008 quarters yearly. The disadvan tage which Canada was now placed under was, that they not alien our ports were shut or opened, depending as it did upon a fraction of &penny. lie was sure that at very moderate duty, a free admission might be allowed at all times, without prejudice to any interest whatever in the country. What with the las. or 14s. freightage, and ss. duty, and the very limited supply, this country •had nothing to apprehend even by the most jealous and narrowed principle that could exist. The lion. Member for Coventry had called the attention of the House to the large fees paid on the ship. ping at the admin.'. They were most certainly a burthen on the shipping of this country, and, whets the colonies time to act upon the principles of free trade, would be felt to be a great inconvenience ; it was therefore determined, that with this al teration of system these fees should be reduced altogether, and that the officers should be paid out of the trade of the colony, which he believed was the proper fund. Many of the officers now employed would riot, under the new system, be wanted at all, but would be altogether in the way. He should therefore propose their discharge, and dust a compensation should be made to them. This alteration would not only add much to the facility of trade with the Colonies, but afford a greater chance for a more successful competition. I He believed he had now stated to the Committee the whole of the alterations he intended to bring under their attention at that time; but on Friday next he should be prepared to lay before them the other parts of the future commercial system. He should now move a Resolution. " That it is the opinion of this Committee that the Acts of the 3d and 4th of his present Majesty, regulating the trade with his Majesty's possessions in North America, should be amended, and also the Acts relative to the warehousing of goods." Mr. C. R. ELLIS, while he congratulated the House upon the wise and enlightened system of policy which the Right lion. Pre sident of the Board of Trade had declared it his intention to adopt, trusted that as the subject was of no common interest they would favour him with their attention while he made a few observations. With regard to the introduction of sugar from the Mauritius under the same duties as the other islands, lie confessed he had heard the Right Hon. Gentleman's intention with some surprise, and the inure so as the same measure had been introduced last year, and af terwards abandoned. lie would not say any more, however, at present, than that he hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would have the goodness to peruse the petition from the id and of Mauritius before he finally determined upon that change. The restrictions proposed to be removed front the trade of the West Indies, and which now press ed more severely upon them than any other, had not been attended with such injurious effects when first introduced. At that time thee:- elusion from all foreign an I continental trade had been compensated by the entire supply of the home market; and as long as die supply I did not greatly exceed the demand, its effects were not felt; but when it became a principle of this country to extend her colonial possession by engrossing those of all other nations producing a sup ply of more than one-third of the quantity required, it became ob. vious that a system which glutted the home market, and afliwtled no outlet unless under die enormous expense of a double voyage, could not be any longer maintained. But while he thought sonic change absolutslv necessary, he was quite sure that one we extensive as the present would not be attended with so much advantage as was anticipated, when the present Chancellor of the Exchequer had, in his capacity of President of the Board of Trade, introduced a I Bill for encouraging a more direct trade with the Continent. Bri tish merchants had not engaged in that trade with so much eager ness as was anticipated. The planters had found it difficult to transfer the trade from its old-established channels, and he believed that scarcely a single British ship bad carried produce in that way to the Continent. He earnestly hoped, however, that the elan:. prise and spirit of British commerce would be directed to this trade, and thus free the home market from that heavy surpins which had nor been formerly removable without heavy double charger'. His flight lion. Friend had said that this principle of reciprocity was only to be applied to those countries which might be willing to adopt it on an equally liberal scale to its. Looking at what find occurred with regard to the treaty with Denmark, lie doubted whether his Right lion. Friend would not find a great impediment to the liberality of his policy in the narrow views of other nations. But he would not choose this occasion to mention diftre drawbacks which mielit suggest themselves; he would rather take occasion to look at the fairest side of a measure which he had heard with unfeigned satisfaction. The opening of the trade of the Colonies to all the world would, among its other ad vantage', he 'lusted increase the population of those Islands by en couraging merchants to settle in them, stimulating thereby the Industry of the black population, ensuring the peace and se curity of the inhabitants, and guarding against any danger from that projected emancipation which had been hitherto viewed with so much apprehension. lie could assure his Right lion. Friend, not to detain the House any longer, that much as his paternal affection might be excited by the measures he had proposed, it did not exceed what he (Mr. Ellis) hit himself: and he was confident that the name of his Right lion. Friend would descent' to posterity connected with that commercial era to which he had given birth. Mr. BARING was confident that this spirit of commercial sr rengement could not but be productive of good to the country and to the Colonies. He could not say that there were not many points in the Right Hon. Gentleman's statements which he in common with the House did not exactly understand; but he thought it fair that they should wait for the printing of the Bills anti Resolutions before they expressed their opinions. One thing he was happy to see—it acknowledged as the general feeling that no nation could gain by impoverishing another, but that, on the contrary, their wealth was the certain source of wealth to those brought into contact with them. With respect to the measures to be adopted with regard to North America, he thought they were nut only to be praised for sound policy, but to be considered as tending to self-preservation ; it being, he thought, obvious that it would be impossible to hold that country but by retaining and deserving their affections. The ineoduction of three or four thousand hogsheads of sugar from the Mauritius he thought ought to excite very little alarm; but even if the quantity was much greater and the effect more powerful upon the market, he could not allow that a Colony, now as much our own as Jamaica or any other West India Island. should not, taking our manufactures in return for its produce, be entitled to equal advantages. A great deal too much importance too hid been attached to the introduc. tion of East India sugars. The fact was, that the Confined was not supplied with sugar to any extent Imo) the East. Brazils. Havanna'', and our own Colonies furnished at least three parts of it ; am: he thought that those who argued for the special protec tion cat East India sugar, even if it was possible for it to furnish the quantity required, that they might starve the planter into the humane treatment of his slaves, had reached the highest pitch of absurdity. The lion. Gentleman then made some observations upon the impolicy of having increased the protecting price of our own Corn Laws from 60s. to Ph., and argued that although be would tat deprive any class of men suddenly of that support which they had for some time been enjoying under the sanction of Par. liansent, still he thought the law might be advantageously moth tied ; and he was confident that when they took into consideration the cost of carriage and freight, the landed interest would not suffer any injurious competition from Canada corn, and that the psotect iug duty of cis. would be found fully sufficient. The river St. Lawrence was, he doubted not. destined to be the outlet of one of the greatest grain countries upon earth ; but from the expense attendant upon its shipment. all apprehensions were groundless with respect to competition in the English market. Sonic arrangement was, however necessary between Upper at:d Lower Canada. As the one was placed above the Lakes. it necessarily followed that it was sup. plied from the other; and it had long been a complaint that Lower Canada had it in its power to Icy what duties it pleased upon the goods going to the Upper. A Bill had been introduced to unity Om • ountria, and put an end to their contention, and he certainly thiught sonic such measure essentially necessary to their &tun pr asperity. Sir F. I U thought that there was a great deal of unnecessary apprehension of public *Mon displayed mow this occasion. Public opinion, they would find, was with then to a. greater extent than they imagined. It would be found thot un feigned gratification would pervade all classes on learning the. nature of the alterations, and thatthe Right Hon. Gentleman night go with the approbation of the public to the full extent of his own concepttons. in giving the Colonies the free use of their capital. and conferring upon the negroes the power to use their own in. duetry, and carry on their own manufactures in whatever way may prove beneficial to them. Every body knew that the prohibition under which the Colonies laboured, of being obliged to send al their raw sugars to us without the power of refining any themselves, hi a a very oppressive grievance. and lie thought its abolition. while it conferred a boon upon them, would be of great benefit to ourselves. It had been thought that sonic objection would be offered to the bringing of corn from Canada. He wished lion. Gentlemen to understand that the landed interest could have no objection to any regulation that they desired, no other advantages than what re sulted from the command of the home market ; they had boons more enlightened upon these subjects, and knew that no assiptanec was to be derived front regulations respecting the price of cornet any other bolstered up ravine of laws. They had learnt by expeiencc that other means were more advantageous than prohibitionaes re. strictions, sad that no taxes should be imposed on trade but what migftt.be absolutely necessary for the sake of revenue. (Hear, hear.) The system he now saw about to be pursued was one calculated to advance this couptry to a prosperity which it had never yet hnown, and the extent of which it was almost difficult for the mind of man to conceive. He would not say any more at present. What be had , principally risen for was, to Ore his support to the principle, and to assure the (louse that the public mind was b ecome too enlightened for any fear tiom the opposition of narrow-minded prejudice. Mr. BRIGHT felt satisfied that the condition of the negropopu. lotion would be much improved by the Right Hon. Gentleman's propositions. He wished to know what were the articles which he had mentioned as to be prohibited in a particular way. Mr. HUSKISSON said the articles to be prohibited frau the. Ilavannah were rum, sugar, molasses, coffee, and cocoa. Mr. HUM E took the opportunity to ask what were the Right Honourable Gentleman's intentions with respect to St. Dtoningo, or, if it was not determined to send some authorised person to ma nage our commercial relations in that country—a country esta blished in race and quietness, and rapidly Increasing in pros perity. It ith respect to Canada, too, as this intended to confer so many , advantages upon its trade, he trusted this country might receive some from it, and be freed from that Timber Act which tom pelled us to pay lade sums for an inferior article. Dr. LUSH ING FON said, that the Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring), had gone out of his nay in censuring those who had taken a different view of colonial policy than he had done. To him (Dr. Lusliington) the:c did not appear to be any reason why the same immunities should not be grinted, and the same system extended to the East u to the West ladies, and this point he might argue not only as a question of political economy,but of moral justice; when he would ask for as large a free trade for one colony as another. Oneirrest cause of the discon lent of the West Indies had not been that.night hinted at. It was mai the ll'et India Proprietors were a set of absentees who were cultivat ing their estates only to enjoy the produce here, and who engaged agents by large bribes to reside there With no other feeling t kern to dram as much from those estates as they by possibility could, and caring nothing for the way in which they left them. If the Right Honourable Gentleman thought to satisfy the West India Peoprie. tors he would find himself mistaken in his cals.ilations. There would be no end to the boons they would ask or the concession they would expect. With respect to the distinctions made between the East and West Indies, he would observe, that the House sap now about to give a boon to the West Indies, in which other Colonies were included : those Colonies had been always tardy in .icltnow. 'edging the authority of Parliament ; but he hoped that notwith standing this fact their animosity would subside, and that when they saw that a similar spirit did not actuate that House, they would be satisfied of its intentions to support them. Mr. GORDON approved of the measure introduced by the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Huskisaon), and thought tha: if he were able only to prevail on other Powers to moderate their colonial system as we were about to moderate ours, the effects would be of a naturetheinost beneficial. Mr. (JORDON said that there was no foundation for the charges that had been made against the West India proprietors, and no reason for the obloquy that had been i lleaped upon them. He was sure all those with whom he was acquainted were not making more than a fair return for their money, and were by no means amassing the sums they were asserted to be amassing ; and that they took the utmost care of and paid the greatest attention to the negro population. It was rather odd to hear certain Honourable Gentle mien professing the greatest kindness towards the West India pro. victors, and yet universally congregating whenever there was any question which concerned their interests. Mr. TRANT made a few ohservations, which were inaudible in the gallery. ,Jr. Et ANS said, that lie could rever consent to any system which gave advantage in any way to a slave user A tree population. The Resolutions were then agreed to POLICE ACT. The Ilouse then resolverliWlTCOtt - u;ittee oh the Pollee Act. Mr. PEEL said, that he had now to propose to the House resolution relative to the salaries of Police Magistrates. He held in his hand several papers which detailed the amount of salaries originally paid those individuals, and others which stated the great increase of business within the last few years, to be pmportionate to the increase of the population. This additional business had also arisen front another cause—the material alterations and extent of many Acts of Parliament. Ile rested his proposition however on motives more important. When those Police Magistrates was first established, they were appointed with a salary of 4001. per annum ; this salary was afterwards increased to 6001. ; and this amount is the sum now allowed them. At their first establishment persons were selected to fill the offices who were incapable of filling them properly. Of the twelve Magistrates originally appointed, he found three barristers, one major, one starch-dealer, three clergy men, and one Glasgow tradesman. And thus were the twelve Magistrates composed, At present there was no law for the appointment of banister,' to those officals but the limitation gentlemen of that profession had beer in a great degree preserved by those who had of late years held the office of Secretary of State ; and neither his predecessor, Lord Sitlinouth, nor himself lied ever ad mitted any gentleman to the situation who was not a barrister of theta years standing. The salaries attached to thoseofflces, lie had observed. was GOO', per annum ; but surely this sum was not sufficient to in duce any lawyer us resign all his hopes of eminence, and to relin quish totally his profession—for that was what would be required ut hint by this appointment to the 31agisaace of the police. His pro position then was, that the Secretary of State should be empowered to grant to the gentlemen filling these offices s sum not exceeding 0001. per annum. He was sure this would not be conceived to he too much. It was true that individuals might be found to take the office on less terms : but this was an argument of no effect. Many persons freitiently presented themselves to Min as candidates for the sittrationt , --and many gentlemen who had very properly discharged the duties of the magisterial office in the country —but such persons were not fit to be placed over the Ir.- lice of the metropolis. No one could prise more highly than ho slid the unpaid Magistracy of this country ; bat it did not follow that because there were individuals who were satis fied wiihmt salary to go through the regular routine of country duties, thrre could be found any efficient gentlemsn, willing to take upon themselves the laborious offices of Police Magistrates. The name by which they were usually distinguished was that of Police Magistrate, ; but those who conceived them to be nothing more would form a very erronenns opinion. They had often to decade upon cases of a very important nature, and cases not in the leaat connected with the Police. For example, under the Building Act, he had known came to occupy the Magistrate two whole days, and no which it would have been impossible to decide without can. sidnable legal knowledge. It was desirable, then, that the in. dividuals atipointed to those situations should be of a c er t a i n standing at. the Bar; and he was sure the Howse would not con sider him moving for more than a fair remuneration, in applying for an increase of;100/. per annum to their salaries, in lien of the sums they might make by their private practice, and the hopes of ninencc in their profession. It appeared to him, that in this country more than in any other there was a parsimonious feeling in the administration of justice. In his opinion this was bad erotiomy. whether it was inani fcresi I in the appointment of •jiidge, or of a lest important, but still very Important officer. It would be, indeed, the worst of all economy to take the refuse of the Bar, and to employ them for the sake of sating 2001. per annum. This OF V ' 5 P