The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1809-06-07 00:00:00

-~-~ - ~~ • piny had engaged for, of 441. per ti 4.. s t sect to the change of opparssiou, so far *41416 Company from being guilty of such. that sliey•aind permitted the private merchant to rietieneite their cotton bark, though not obliged t., it , and this to their vary great injury. Without elf. 44444 - radius the various articles allnded to. lie nowtd venture to say, they could all be fully raki,...red, when the proper time aunt, but this was out that time. The papers ago* called for, lie co:molest-0 a , onneeessary,• inasmuch as they had must ut• thsm been already printed. lf, however, the House should be of opinion they should he graated, lie would not persist in his opposition to their pro duction. Mr. CRESTST was rather against the motion, on the ground that the subject of the private trod.: was, together with other subjects relative to the Company, at this time under consideration before a Committee of that House, of wltlch he himself was a Menisser. He was not besides lunch inclined to sympathize ill the complaints of trade'', alien witnessed the dethroning of :old the • turniniv of kingdoms, us ludic. suffered to pass ; and he could not avoid regreltimr, that when the Court of Directors charged the Niaiiiptis tVellwitey with disobedience of their oider•, en u.n 'tells had been taken by that House to institute into the subject. Mr. Dunn.. observed, that the butane.* of the Marquis Wellesley had been, in fact, before the House, rod they had come to a decision on it.— With reenact to Use Moti.,u, tilt subject of it was now artieilly under the coiisideretion of a Commit tee: at the .:one time tie had a difficulty iu oppos iiiz it ; as most of the papers lied been already pr:teed. When the E.i.t holm Company came to that House tnr a renewal of their Charter, which intAlit•be next year, or, verity*, not sootier :lima tier eras, tfnu would us the time for en I..vesti gation of all their enucerns; at present he did not consider hixisea at liberty to decide on the subject, Imi Tie time he would he prepared for it. If, Isiimi the whole. the Hun. Gent. cOrvaalerett the production of these papers absolutely necessary, lie should n.a oppose it. Mr: W A u.scs wen adverse to the motion. He considered the conduct of the merchants as uurmt acicatiou-. who, as match, would have their goods cooveyed at 41 freight of 141. pe. Lou, and yet. the very seine men. as shipsowners, let theio's to the Company, at JBI. or 201. per ton. and higher rates. , Mr. PitCIIIIIPF.IIII&AGT replied to the arguments weed isy Mr. Grant against the motion. After a few ,words frnet Mr. tia.ts r. Mr done CUNT. and Mrd Pant Moots. the Sreex.:e t.L..;•.ttred of the Hon. Mover s whether the first pa per in his list was among these which had been before ordered ;o be printed as is that ease it was contrary to the practice of the Hosed to order it to be again pri:.tetl. Mr. Pa.LIM:ROAST was not certain of it; and, upon the suggestion of Mr. ouNDA4. with.lrew his motions till he should aacertain such of the papers us lcul been before witited. amid such a. had not; in order to hia moving the printing the latter. Mr. STEVENS, its purautioce of a previous notice. moved— " That there be 16'11 Were the Neese, as seemed of the whom natak r of His Modesty's 'sad LTC, employed is the eutuisest of Hastiaique, olissiseeisbiew the rusher of lhoroopeoni from 'Rd of the lined teals employed Ins the mai act vice." He stated, aF his motive for to 'king this motion. that he wished to brim; under discussion the sub stance of the proclamation which had beets named our Commander, on the capture of that island ; 'illicip he said, +us unjust and i,w'wnfwr, .kts threatening the slaves with Is trios! by a militso tribu.i ii, if they ree . :.tel our ant isuuulty, hr eirtSl'4 lu their d:fritcr. Thi. be compared to the violent decree. of Botiaparte ; and, without any dispoadio s , to press upon the gallant commander* of our forces, it did mem tp him necessary, since the papers had found their way upon the table. that the subject eittnild ensue before the House. in order that t h ey might know whether or not Ministers countenanced each proceedings; fur, it they did, it was disco.- ragitig that species of tirce tweet which we Owe rely-for our security in the West Indies. Lord CASTLYRRAOH said, that this matter had already attracted the attention of Goveruinent, for when the Proclamation was sent to this cauntry. all felt it their duty to call for esplar.ation, tom! to state to the Commanders, that they cool ' mut temente approhation of the cateduet that ha,t been adapted. it hovrever appeared, that if that Proelas oration had iSerll acted upon. it moislal have been out of humanity to the *laves who were homed alnl custwellesl to bear arias by their masters. When it should appear that they hod retell by on4er of • their masters, no species of eoutishinent could at tach to them. A 10101. 4 ... he thought that this mat ter could not Stiant of the interpretation the Floss. Member put upon it. yct he could have,uoohlec tion tv the pruidoctioti called for, as it would ap pear that Government hat used every menus to procure ilifortniation, and to Kermit any' et con sequel:vet artsiug from the Peticlautations issued. Mr. Vtudeas thought. that after what hail al ready been experienced from the resistance of the slaves in St. Domingo, it must be °brit-at, that :my proclamation to preveet the slaves being trolly of similar excesses elsewhere. must be highly approm. ad of. Mr. BYttuso said. it was his opinion, Cy,: it woe absolutely necessary to employ humpy:to ttoups sum the West Indies; and that if ever 411 ill .I:l'rectuos, should occur in Jamaica. and a black regi.ieit eon the insurgents, it would he uo swore in the power of this country to aisblie them, than it had bee., in the power or France to subdue St. Ifumingu. lie had no objection to the motion, although he did led exactly see the utility of it ; mei he thought it would he better to leave the matter entirely to Governmelit. Mr. iltirtitieents said, he thought it was of great impunities+ to the country to Initie , in d u' ter under discussion, es he egreed with the lion. ltdever is detesting that species of conquest wleeh was so much Declaimed against its regard to our eiteinies the French. He approved of the intitiott, and ona.happy to end the Piolile Lord did 'eta rx press any approbation of the cooduet that hall bwrai adopted by the Commanders ou oyeastou of that cungnest. Adr. 'having, &Klieg that Goverauscut were di,- .. g r.. ~ ~ ~ , ,t-~. -~-~rrs limed to ittleed .0 Ibis matter, ageetd tO *ithdrali his loos • ksxrii IN PARLIAMENt 011 the motion of !!IrCueWitei the Nouse re.• annwil thevansideretion of the. hall, by grove; again sot.. a Catoosi!trr to tioa•oos The Cu %xi ia.t.oa of the Excesmuelt said, he wad sia ameielineist to propose, es he had formerly suggested, for the purpose of ifielsiding the traffic or arab; for nffi es, us 'sell as fur money, us flint ap. peered to ..ereral Gentlrantii to be a necessary ob.. jeri. He however thought, that some different posvision was requisite in regatta to these two Linde or misdemeanours; he should propose that in the clause declaring the traffic fur money a mit drineasionr, the words tt sApress or implied." should be introduced ; but in regard to uffis es, they could net, with propriety, coact to the same ex ; for others must be bestowed, otherwise the !midis: business could sit be curried on. It would ne unjust, therefore, to imply, that offices were given 4.sr corrupt purposes. The Right Hoe. Gen tleman titto tort/lotted, in the first place, les 3 8404141- UWIlt upon the money clause, which being put by the Chairman, Mr. TIERNEY said, he midst not conceive any moon why the muse proeisiou bholll4l tint he used in regard to the giving offices. as hi regard to the giving of nioary. It would be allowing an exclu. - sive monopoly, in regard to the bestowing of saves. while it prohibited morn strictly the at uwesey acid if the Bill pissed through the Committee with such . a provisiou, hr should miles-winds vote siaainsit it. Thy Treasury might thus give offices tirst to some of their frieuds, who might give them to thawe who hail itifluence in elections. et bough the object in view by the Bill was in gener.sl to ;sweets' the sale of -eats in Parliament. There could he nu danger ia. leaving these transactions to the deter tuireition of a jury. His obje-t would be to snake three distinct brandies ito this eicum ; TN , filSt to resider it a niiskletneasiour .141 May . person to traffic for a seats—secondly, a misilenossatesrm any Mem ber pros a ring himself • o retdrnedi-sond thi tiny, ell 1, - jeettng the person receiving the bribe to the restor ation of it, besides the payineut of the stirtdated penalty of seed. Upon the whole. he 'ratio. t to s.a. the words expressed Or implied introdnewd tat , all parts of the traasaciiou, otherwise the Bill' could not have a beneficial ttfiset. The CHANCELLOR of' the EXCHEQUER still per. sated in supporting Ilse clause as &mewled. for he tholught the leaving the transactions as to offices to the construction of a Jury. would be to deprive the /louse of some part of its pi ivileges. There could be um case where au office itea given, which Jury might not dud to/premed or implied us he lug a bribe for a seat iu Perltasnent, It would be layisig a trap for every :ileinber of the I louse, were such matters to be consumed by implication. lf, however, the word implied w ere ot, st teal to its re gard to offices, he shoubl think it were better to use only the word tt exporssed," in regard to both money add offices. Mr. Thames , expressed Isis astonishment that the Night Hon. Gentleman could Auppow ; jury could imply any corrupt existed, when st was ws well known to he 51 duty of a jury to ascertain, by evidence, what was rent and what was wrong. He was still satisfied there was no necessity for separating the provisions as to emery from those as to offices. Th.: CHANCELLOR of the Exciter:Mee said, that the only parson to be turned out of Parliament was the persoss who had purchased the seat ; he who bad gives' It was liable to a penalty of 5001. Mr. Possciase objected to the Bight Hots. Gentleman's propmation upon another principle ; Jae objected to the distinction which it went to is raw between an express and an implied controet. the effect of which would be to render the provisions of the Bill a mere delusion. The Right Hon. Gen tleman's proposition denied any julioliction to a Committee or a Courtof Law, unless au actual ex pressc.irrupt agreement could be proved; so that let the inferrnetuf such corruption he ever so strougly established, and the minds of the Judge and the Jury ever so completely satisfied of the offence ' it could not he punislutd. This he tlicught highly ob jectioaable. With respect to the penalty a A or 5001. he did not think that the House would do.its duty if it did tint snake the offence a misiletneauour. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the observation j ust made 'Mewed him the necessity lithe clause. It had been stated, that in conse quence of his proposition, a jury would be nbligeil to acquit, unless evideure of an express contract or agreement could be adduced. This, he was of opsasett, eight to he the ease. It was ,actually nes owes" to snake such 84 provimon, unless they wished to prevent the giving Of offices to relations or friends. Somebody should lot appeinted to office it was true, but then it would be inquired why was A. preferred to B.? and it ...mid i.e difficult to ex plain that. unless by follosiiiig tip the ytsablications that led to the prrferenc,.. It was to guard against charges df this' nature that lie had Sug.,:ested his amendment. Mr. TIERNEY said. that if they determined that an express agreement should be proved, Si, Trea sury *mild be absurd enough to come to en express agreeinesit ; so that the evil would 'lot be reineChed. It was calculated to screen the Treasury. The Right Ho!' Cleittlenta.l wits wilfin4 to adopt the words, as applied to money ; hat lie (Mr. T.) was desirous to extend them to offices also, as he did not see ativ realm% for the ,exceation. Lord a Perry said, that if one course was to be tor;:iiden. and another permitted. they might depend tipon it the course permitted would be the fIll! adopted. Every nue of the corrupt trails nettpas that had been perfortzied were without any express agreement, and they would still consume to be trausucted in the 8.11188. may. If u jury was out competeut to decide upon a (vocation of lila pheatiou, what Would become of the administration of I.lw jn the country? An implied egreernesst. he emacmlud, was as capable of proof as au express one. Mr. W. Weems said, it waa well known that inane voters, though they received molting for ILar .4ctusl vet", uWititit 41 Are embroils/or shaving , the airfare', or some such set. Re objected that there wax co prorision made for the ptinishru-ot of a person whoasurchased a seat for another, with -out soy emoluelent to himself. ..aig.thais did not disapprove of the hos sod legitimate apalteatteti of money to ess . '77 • - 4 , Othettre teak; 414 i entitisilith 3,l4pphiteci of as moth ee sins 111/6111.. if filet eteecies of intim-me was ee1:1401..4, Ao.diter would istoinotolutrtl iso It. piece, perktv Nut more edvantatio , ooo to the c 11111 l ry.— Thee who pa 1111 l eon' to take off tare,—they who resorted to lenge profetetione, and the aria of point* lar eloqueece, wising mowed, if the issflitence w.,,property w s destroyed. He ha rms hesitation m elating, iu hi..piece. 'het .f tier (attar'. 00000 rot was what twiny Geutleirien contended for, to tie toy. it would he the too.tt cupreeticettle it.ttu that &vet wes attempted. if imiukiiid • ..! su tortneJ as to be adapted lt) it, they *mild rem dire 1.0 Government it all. Without it system of calltiesocr,sto Gov..rto. menteould exist, There was a dominant between end private tpiestiome, which remitted * jury far inure competent to decade its the latter than tit the former case. Their 'pessirios mad prejudice* were (Pot tailed isito action to the *aisle degree.-- lie cmicluded with' inculcating the neeemity of dive tilietioitisig between col ruptima and iufl weave. Sir Taunts TUNTON di,' not iiiiileratatial the meaning of an hotiourable tool legitimate applica tion of motley to procure seats in Pnlietnent.— With reapcct to the timenedinte aine. , tt not, he saw no ii.cuinvelut-fice tit At could result pool eommitting the queetion efiniplitatieu to it Jury. fie thou ,ht there were trio 'Mtn words about the 1341. and washed to see it include every description of wok: I Ittillefltr.. Mr. AiPLX preferred lite atom us it stood before; if it aim Motlelled, as limy tecoinmended, it recital destroy the operation of the word revierd," as 'atonymous osththe word office: air. Cu mese wished that the Bill should stead as it ails ortvaelly brought no. . Sir duos NATIIUTtica said, that the distinction thaw', le-tot:en money end office wag a titer nee.— ile thd not see the inconiestience of leaving it to the decision of a Jury, without conduit% them to ' the prowl' of an expreas stipulation. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXultrOuldt had as objection to agree to the propood of the Honoura ble Gent. opposite (4r. Cu' west), to let the clause stand ie its original ships; in another elmse, however, he world move for the inieolios of the worn, which he thought necrasory to the Bill. Mr. Tteateee nitiectell that tile clause slid not provide a plinialintrist Stir the ',mom who tiepin ated the transaction bet wren the purchaser awl die poser of seat. The CHANCELLOR or the Excitetausta thought it right that that person uhoolti be exempted, as it was to him they weir to look for evidence. Upon the clause being reel fur preventing any catididate, foetid guilty of bribery, to put up agaiu for the 'erne place during the same Parliament, Mr. CUltiVliN moved, ea en tiotplunent, that it should incapacitate such candidate for !tutting tip, or being retorited for any oth-r coonty, city, bo rough, or oilier phree, , loring the said Parliament. 1.): : nt• Era'. :aid. Lc st.os twit prepare) 1.1 ~• :tent far the pitut..htticsit of hr:l :'rt.— i ' • happen that a person would !, • , 1„ - of bribery, from particular circulustattee., • a ao was not testily et); in such case it would be ex ' treniely 'Are to prevent his becoming again candidate for soother Waco; be thossiche flee owed. nal clause was adequate to the purposes of the 1: 1. 'sir. Poesonse supported the amendment. Ile said, that if it persnn who hot one seet was allowed to come in for auother, the bribery would not at ell be polished. Sir T. Terrell and Lord Pospiettsaitacit asp. ported the ainetinsesit. Mr. Ststeoe said, that where a eat had been gained unconstitutionally, it could not be retained. it teat in Parliament was not a matter of property, but of public trust, and that persons fouud guilty of bribery should have the effect of excluding them front Parliament. Mr. WYNNE supported the amendment of his Hon. Friend, which was necessary, not only*. a punishment, but in order to uphold the honour of the House. Mr. PENCRYAL said, that that ergotnent might go to exclude fur lite. if the amendment were agreed to, the punishment would be more than ne cessary to keep down the offence. Mr. 11.0CILH•aT supported the amendment. Mr. Manse said, if any portiou ulpeople could uphold a min found guilty of bribery, the Howie of Coniuums ought to interfere to prevent it; they ought not to receive such it person. The punish meet was not too severe; when is ,assn hurl ahewn an inclination to come otto that House by corrupe Lion, he should be excluded by the [lnure. Mr. fIAWIEINS BROWNE oppOSOd the amend ment ; and said it would be gain. too far to exclude a person from Parliament, deemed guilty of bribery by a Committee, who ;night be wrong in their deci sion. llr was sufficiently punished by the penal- ties inflicted, without having recourse to so strong a measure. Mr. WHITHINAD said. he should be extremely sorry if this Bill were to fail. In the course of dis cussion, doctrines had been mod. which, at former periods, dare not he asmaeri. Upon *question that it persona fun mot guilty of bribery at erne place, should be allowed to take a seat for any other, the argu ments that had been used axtonislied hon. Dor trims so corrupt lie had siever befnre ett,teased.— He feared 1.111. i. WhCil alterat lees of the Right Hon. Gentlemen have heen *greed to, tie 'Weld feel compelled, when the Ball was oat of the Com mittee, b vote again.% it. TllO SOLICIIOII-61041INAL contended for the principle, that the incapacity should follow the coo. stitutioit and the law as it now stood ; that law was. that the perotet convicted of bribery was merely to rupecitaterl from sittiug in Parliament for the place upon the election for which he wee convicted of bribery; ass that a promo convicted of bribery upon , ao election for the Borough of Southwark was not incapeciteted for sittiog in the same Parliament for the County or ;Middlesex. To incupaatate aw ool. convicted of bribery from sitting for the plot., which was the acetic of his offence. during the whole of the Parliament, as was propmed by the Bill, was going further Com the new now stood : but to Incapacitate soil a parse* from sitting for any place cipring that Parliament, might have the effect of as over-severe law, anal defeat itself ; as who knows whist effect melt might have upon a Con aaaa ittee, whams decision essry one knew might depend upon a cooing voice, winch might be influenced by such a feetios ? This woo the spore especialty to In cethiderwi, vb.; it was . . • If -- • .., . . • • . • recollected, that. in extronie ciao of palpable bail atrocious bribery, 11w Heuse poowwwil within it- • self the power of deciding upon the penalty DOM . contended for. • Mr. berths:hos reminded the House, whet wee ~ . the design of the person bribing?—Tit sobsaiihat seat le that Howie l They should then take rate to detest that desige, by excluding hint from that Parliament altngethet. Air. Auto denied the pr neiple laid down 14 In. lion. and Learned Friesil, that they were tip le. slate by precedent. Was the I louse likely to he bettered by imffering the briber of A. to sit for B. ?--If tat, legislate at all upon the subject, they should take care to make the law effectual.— The object wee to intimidatr from the cotatniaviou of the offence, and, following yp this principle, the sully effectivil mode was total excitation. The test 'fan oath to be tskeu by . Mrqsbess was proposed I I the hill, mad the propriety of We else., was backed by an atethonty so high (that of the Mier.! abe hoped would ; ; ere it effeht ; and were they to have, knowingly isod desigisedly, per jury embodied hi that Howe : foie was an argil meat altogether couclosive in his mind, in favour of the ainenduicots Mr. Wtl.l.l.loll9Mint contended that 111 the law was intended for prevention. stud a putushment aas the only stouts of effectuating that iutestion, the aoseddinent was absolutely necessary. Lard HhisltT I'l:Try observed, that it was arittad the offence would be suLlciviitly punished by the 100 of the money ineffectually spent in the ensiles cessful bribery ; but was it eat obvious that the moiety would not be forfeited. as it *hold be to be giveu only conti)tuo-teeny. fur the iittainuieut of the . seat ? • The SPEAZIR said, he extremely wished not to ext rid the penalties too far ; and, as he i oushiered they had been esilarged auflicieetly already, be should therefore vote that the original wont, stand part of the Bill. l The House then divided en the question, that the oingesal words steed part of vie clause: Ayes, 81 ; Noes, fin ; Majority, ul. The ankilddient was of temper nezatived. Whet, CM were re-admitted into the r allay, Mr. 1 Tieatter was on his legs, proposing an amend. , merit to die oath in the original ail. He eatd It ; was of hitch it conscientious nakre, that no snow could ri fuse to take it, vis. " Thit A. B. rears he Ins not procured himself to be , returnsa as a Member of Perlissasut. by to. le make of on ! , ;Asc. wider Government, or peustoo ; of that be bee luBouuce.l nay of Ins electurs,4 a Fromm ef say plate es emolument, to obtain Isis seat. " He couciuded by saying, without some otherrion. Gentleman proposed as eath that *wild meet his shore perfect approbation, lie vronld, divide. the I louse on this, as he considered it a wholesale Tara sure. that did not prevent caoilitletes on its election to employ avid pay agents. 1 Mr. Peacer*" objected to the amendment. as th e payment of 'oh. to a voter would be perjury nu •!,•r its influence ; and L.Vell the payment of the , , ..: it agent at an election, Of a coutrnetion for the , iiiiiest of his ch2rge„,suight bedeviled prrjuri. 617. TlBj”lej„nBbocoosivivreiit wool& beitie • 7esfialiirdioari thou.. irr the world ices/ ni ea. sore was brought into "hat House to prevent Metn• bera from paying their agents. But if the Right Hon. Gentleman (Air. Percent) did not shape his course very differt from what he had that wgla, When the Bill came out of the Chweinittee, he-(Mr. ' Tiernev,) would not vote bar it. Mr."Puitsouse said, be could not perCeive what the payment of an agent had to do with contracting for a seat in Parliement; the Right Hen. Gentle man (Mr. Pekeval) might es well say the candidate who said a postilion half-a-crown for dhivihs an elect°. to an election.could Dot take the oath. 'Die Right lion. Gentleman then took a full and com prehensive review of the nature of the oath aseinend ell by Mr. Tierney, and concluded by observing it should have his decided support. Mr. CUIRVE, stated that the oath would be par ticularly necessary, as it would be a pledge to the country that the House was dytermined to purify itself. Mr. Wit 3c arnace spoke at length as to some measure being owreesary, as corruption had b e en acknowledged by His Majesty's Minister-. Mr. Timmer stated, that it was nut his inten tion to attach the ensue of perjury to the oath. fist. on lookius - over the Journals of the House, he did not god perjury attached to the oath taken at the table. Lord Mst.von approved of the oath proposed in the Bill. Mr. (7ammtito said, if any oath was at all nece9- sary, that proposed by the Bill was certainly pre ferable to the amendment soggemed by the Right Hon: Gentleman; as iu its latitude it was such as could not be true. Mr. Rose dhapproved of the punishment for perjary being aosigned to such an oath. He would ask the Hot). Gentleman opposite (Mr. Wilber force) in what situation he himself would stand, if he himself was dcclurul not duly elected, after hav ing taken such IA oath Sir T. Tyler° m spoke with great Pooh in favour of the insertion of a strong and comprehensive omit, fur without that, he thought the bill would nut lie at at efficient. The people of England would naturally think that every man who could sot take such an oath into been bribed. The Sec tacit stated, that when he formerly *poke upon this subject. he had observed, that is proper oath wwild be exceedingly usefel, and the more so, if put to the Elected, instead of the Elector ; but if it met with much diversity of opinion, he would rather dispense with it, as he was unwilling to stiperadd this, or any other provi sion, that would endanger its ultimate homes.. Strengths were not agates re-adinitted, but we um deretand that us discussion tuck place. that the CIIAIIIMAN reported progress, sad obtaiusd leave to it agiun this Jay. Adjourned at HALF-PAST YOUR. Letters from Cureeoe, dated the 11th Aprils th'ito;:ftwiadvimo meat b l e ir r es:t t i l h il l e e tst wikul m lia ai r , s r4 :c a k d Pec ets a lt rr ; l 7a ret t t tbe ha b t at aatel lis t t he e. too Soeuery Packets were supposed to be lest, et astern ; unusually severe gales fur the assess hod bete espeAritced. It was expertei that the Verb • also et seer would tail he Ernehredthebtearnin .4 . at Map . Neal -r , , i