The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1804-06-26 00:00:00

there VMS ground for constitutional jealousy ? It did no t appear unconstitutional, and the measure upon the whole had his hearty concurrence, as a measure that provided in the best manner for the public r od ' Earl CAMDEN said a few words in explanation. Lord GRANTLEY said, that the mode of re cruiting proposed by the present Bill had already been tried, and found totally inadequate to the pur posed in the county of Surrey. The question was then called for, and a divicinn to ok place—Content% 84 ; Proxies, 70; 15 Contents, 50 ; Proxies, 19 ; 69—Majority , t y Adjourned at HALF PAST TWO O'CLOCK this morning. HOUSE. OF COMMONS. Sir CHARLES BUNBURY brouti•ht sip the re port of the Committee on the Corn Trade ; which WAS agreed to, and, pursuant to a resolution contained in the same, it was ordered that it be an instruaion to the Committee appointed to bring in a Bill on a former report. to make provision in the Bill pursuant to the said report. The Denmark Mint Bill was read a third time and passed. Several accounts relating to Ireland were pre sented at the Bar of the House. On the Order of the Day being moved by Mr. H. LASCELLES, fur the Committee on the Wool len mantiladure laws suspension Bill ; Mr. BROOKE ohjoaed to bringing forward a measure of this kind. year after year, instead of es tabli.hing some great and eifeaual regulation at once on the subject. lie would, howner, now con sent to the present measure, if the Hon. Mover of it would promise to enter next Session into a revision of all the old statutes relating to the woollen manu faaure. . . Mr. H. LASCELLES said it certainly was his intention to lay before the House a proposition to this elfcra. The Bill then went through the Committee, the Report was received, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time t,t-r-. Sr EVAN NEPEAN obtained leave to bring in a Bill for raising a permanent force in Ireland. The SECRETARY at WAR moved for leave to bring in a Bill to enAle His Majesty to raise foreign corps, and indemnifying those who had taken fo reigners into His Majesty's service. Mr. CREEVY wished to know if there was to be a clause in the B•li for the benefit of those whose reli i ions persuasions were different from the religion of • Church of Englmi ; atid to exempt them from t: ?enalties they might otherwise incur. SECRE TARN' at WAR sail, it was lu te- • the Bill s. ould comain a clause to r', eff ;t was to be confined solely to corps. Mr. ANCIS said, that, even in the present stage of this pr.w.eiaing, he cote's' not help remarking that it was one of a very unconititmional nature; • • • ~ . =cording to our laws and coostitution, no lose troops could be allowed to collie into this country, or within six miles (.f . he coast ; nd hen ished know whether he siould have a..other opportunity to discuss this question ? The SECRE CARY at WAR said, the lion. Geollemaa would h a re a great many. Mr FOSTER obset ved, that he had on a former day given notice of Ids intention to bring forward a regulation for the purpose of correCting many errors and abuses that prevailed in the revenue depart ment:. in Ireland ; and the measure wou! be found ed on a similar one, which was adopted some years ago in this country. His great objets wai, first to Lave an accurate enquiry made into the s: ate of those oth.:es. ar. I, when :he ik of the enviri should hr 1i i it..tore the Hou.,e, Pa7k4:itt-nt would then lw able to judxe wb.:!ber -any, Jed what ••-t..ps were ra,..essary to be taken. lie tier :loved,— " That live be given to briiiy, ia a Bill fit appoint ing Coramissionci to enquire into the amount of the C.-es, S.ilari , emoluiniers, and or'ner r.ratuale• receved by officers empioyed in I- laid. to ex arn.n: into t:le aShseb whiz)) prevale,l in the sante ; anal t., rev,r; to the Hous.2 their (.creations, and tnzgest as may occur t i them toward, the better of the revenue in Ireland." Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, he felt himself im pelled to the and r aura his these to the Right li in. Gentle:mu, for bringing forward a m..•asure of this inm-rance, which uceld be of the most sub staTial benefit to 1::1and ; a berktit much greater than any that had evrr beer, felt in this corintr y ; he catt,c t!.e 45u , : . % were mach greater in the ono than the other. '1 he Right Hon. Gentleman had on a former day drawn a . inel imholy pi 'tare of the fin ances and rever'.ies Ire! tad; atJ is was evident that that situa.ion wea.ioned In a great rr.ea vire by the abuse, is prcvail...d 1.1 the pirlihk boards in Ireland. - Ilse i..c.dental esp.:tic:l of thc•c hoards wc:c enormous. 1.1 thr the peen Aire department, no los. a -.!int titan was allowed for losses sustained in one of the mail c.iache,. The:r law expenses welt: equally enormous. The biil of COW for law exiwuc.., in the post office .'apartment, during the last year. amounted to no I?ss than 5,800. Those of the paving board were 20001. and similar erpences attended the board of commisiioners for wide streets. The fees received Ly ollicers in ail de partments of the revcnitt., were also widely oppres sive ; those persons in , übordinate ..[nation, w e re in Vie habit of esatii:g enormous and oppress r^ fees. These were abuses which callLd for an in. vestigation, and he was confident that meth :la in vestigation would b.: highl) gratifying to the peo ple of Ireland, who would eheattit:ty p.ty Uses, is soon as they saw the a:lg for inipasii.g them accompanied with a fair and ile , :t/r.oe enquiry into all the abuses which prevented the due collitßinn of the public revenue. The great L.ll.metis 'hat re mained in the hands of the collet trs, were another circumstance which made an cnquiry still more ne ctissary. These had considerably eitci eased during, the last year. It appeared large stints or tLe money were now due, by some who had hem pro- Inta;:d from subordinati to higher 41%d t! . .41 deceased colleaors, in whose bulauces had re mained unpaid, left large est.ttes behind them. The law expences were not only enormous in every department of the revenue ; but the slims in r:hici• offenders had been cottviEted were remitted, and the public was thus deprived of the benefit wising from them. These were great evils, which 'required a speedy iuvestigation and cure. He thought it ne :essary thus to trouble the House with this short statement ; and he earnestly hoped the regulation proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman would be speedily carried into effe&. . , Mr. FOS'T'ER said, he would not enter into any discussion on this subjeCt until the Hill passed through Parliament, and the Commissioners of Inquiryishould report their opinion to the house. Sir JOHN 'NEWPORT' said, his only objeet in stating whit he did, was to shew the absolute ne ces.ity of such a Bill as that which the Right Hon. Gentleman had just moved for. Mr. ORNISBY said, the Hon. Baronet had stated man fads in a way that required explanation from him, in order to do away the impression they other wise must make upon the House. The incidents and law expences in the Post Office department had been occasioned chiefly by the many mail rob beries which were committed. The Commissioners of 11'ide Streets must necessarily have had nu merous proceedings at law before they could carry into effect the business for which they had been instituted ; and surely no one could say, that 2,0001. in one year was too great a sum for the costs at tending those proceedings ; on the contrary, he con sidered it a very low sum. As to the Commis sioners of the lteveaue having remitted penalties, they had done no more than exercise the same powers which belonged to the Commissioners in this country ; who frequently used their discretion in extending indulgence to those who had been suf ficiently punished already. He was sorry to hear the Hon. Baronet make the statements he did, which he must deprecate, because they were made at a time when they could not be answered. Mr. FRANCIS said, titel-lon. Baronet appeared to him to have done no more than make a plain statement of fak% ; and he now wished to.knew, whe ther it was intended that there should be any correc tion of the abuses prevailing in Ireland, before the Commissioners under the intended Bill should make their report ? This he was anxious to know, on ac count of what fell from t! •e Right lion. Gentleman opposite, when he last got up to speak. Mr. FOSTER said, he only meant that there should be no discussion, nor any regulation on the subjed, until the Commissioners should make their report. But, as to the immediate correction of abuses, all he could now say, was, that he himself would answer for it, every exertion should be made, in the mean time. to make the Revenue Officers in Ireland do their duty. • Mr. ORMSBY said, he thought it necessary to remove a very e • impression that seemed to dwell on the minds of Gentlemen with regard to the balances in the hands of Colledors. Such ba lances hal exisied, since the year 1".!9, and he never knew them less that' 90,0001. Mr. NIAG RICE FITZGERALD said, that as one of those employed in the superintendance of the revenue in rieland, he th night it necess try to say a f. d, i:n subj:Et of the sums in the hands There certainly was the sum of 6:40d0l nsw outstanding; hut the monies actually I into the hands of collators bore a very small prop.o.len to that sum. The Treasury of Irel tnd h id used itel:•titie.atible exertions in enleavouring a: that no mere : should bs in the bonds of col leEtors than was absolu:e.y Accessary. o:,e cause of money rem.:ie:ng in their hands, was the slit& culty of remitting it from distant parts of Ireland to the capittl. Bir he could assure the House, that whenever the Collectors appeared to have any dis position to keep money in their hints, the Com missioners of the revenue took the most prompt and effedual means to get it from them. Mr. CORRY heeged Lave to trouble the House with a few observations on this subjed, in addition to what he had stated on a former day. So far ;') re being 1:00 0001. in the hands of colleam I rise wfitii.l he surprised to hear whoa that sum to illy was. There was now a return of 551,0001. est:in:beg revenue, charged to the collators At this time ; but this sum was Oct is their ':.tads; they had not yet received it. The :loose would see what the cAuse of this was from the tact which he was about to state. It was 111 . • eustun for the surveyors of excise in Ireland, to go once a month and visit All persons subjed t s the excise duty ; for instance, distillers and maltsters. •1 hey received returns from the gaugers or inferior excise officers, of the sums for which these were lia ble to pay : and they made a monthly return of them before they were paid; and the head Collator made a return of them to the Board of Commis sieners ; and all these sums were charged to his ac count before ever they were collated in. The Collec tor thus sppears to have balances remaining in hand, when he has not received a shilling. The persona liabie to the excise duty had generally a month's credit in paying the money. With maltsters and distillers this amounted to the sum of about 3 or 100,0001. The mot.ey, therefore, which was sup posed, from the returns, to be in the Collator's hands, was not paid. And he could assure the ! loose, that of the 600,0001. said to be due to the Irish Government, not above 50,0001. WAS adrielly in the hands of Collators He now spote from the written documents which he exa mined ; and from which it appeared, that this sum did, since January last, flitdoote from 31,0001 to -19,0001. which sum it never exceeded; that was all the Collators now had in t:,eir hands ; and why so much was remaining in their possession, he had already explained to the House. In order to satisfy the House on this subjed, he now gave notice, that ha woul , f to-morrow move fur certain returns, which would clearly chew that his statement was corral ; and would put an end to all mistaken views on the subj•.•;t. Mr FOSTER said, so far from having any ob j:•Riun to. lie ratlicx wished for, the proJation of t.ie papers alluded to by the lion. Gentleman. With rzspea to the balances remaining in hand, he would maintain, that the sum of 600,0001. was now due to Government ; that it ought to have been received by this time; and that Government could have compelled the payment of it. The Commissioners the Irish Treasury, he contended, were as re spansil le for the due colleaion of the revenue, as the Commissioners in England were. Mr. FRANCIS said, that what he had heard from the several Gentlemen who spoke on this sub :lea, was sufficient to prove to him, that it was of couaiderable importance. He was glad to find that the Right Hon. Cattleman (Mr. Corry) intended to move for certain papers ; and, until these were produced, ha should forbear to make auy further observations on the business. Mr. M. FITZGERALD, in explanation, said, that the Irish Treasury was controuled by the Go vernment, vrith regard to the power it h t l ‘,f en forcing the colleaion of the revenue. And tiro 19,u,t01. was the highest sum in the hands of the Colleaurs. The !Vbition male by Mr. Fosraa was then put and carr4o. Mr. PI 1' gave notice, that on Friday next, in the Committee of Supply, he would rekr to the consideration of the House, a proposition on the subjeft of the Civil List ; and also a motion relative to the Duties on Stamps. Mr. CURRY gave notice, that he would to-mor row move fur papers relative to the balances in the hands of Collectors in Ireland. Lord ARCH( BALD lIA MILTON prehented Petition from certain Freemen in G1.1 , 7,exv, statin;;, that they conceived alarming alterati'ms were abou: to he made in the Corn Laws of the kingdom ; and praying that these might not be adopted. Ordered to lie on the Table. Mr. FOSTER brought up a Bill for laying addi tional Duties on Stamps in Ireland. Read a first, and ordered to be read a second time to-more ow. Mr. HUTCHINSON said, if the Bill compre• hended a tax on the registry of freeholds, he should oppose it in a future stage. Mr. FOSTER said, it did contain a clause to that aid Mr.HUSKISSON brought up a Bill to enable the Commissioners of the Treasury to issue Exche quer Bills ; read a first, and ordered to be read a se cond time to-morrow. Mr. JOHNSTONE moved that there be laid be fore the House the particulars of the accounts made up on the Ist of March last, by which the East India Company claim from Government the sum of 4,018,0001. Ordered. On the Order of the Day for receiving the Re port of the Liverpool Prize Goods Bill ; Mr. Alderman COMBE opposed the Bill, on ac count of its affeEting the interests of several mer chants in London : he said there were Coun.el then in attendance to speak against the Bill, and moved that they be called in. Mr. ROSE said, the Commissioners of the Cus toms had given it, as their opinion, that the goods in question might be landed and sold at Liverpool. They were now landed thei e, had paid all the charges, and the expence of removing them to London would amount to no less than 17l per cent. The revenue was not to derive the least benefit from this Bill. It was a measure merely for the benefit of the captors of the goods, who wanted nothing else but that they might not be put to the expence of remov ing goods from a place into which they had brought them, under a misconception as to the rights of the East India Company. As to the underwriters, who opposed this Bill, because they might get insurance money, if the goods were to be sent by sea from Li verpool to London, it was too absurd to weigh for a moment, on this question. Mr. JOHNSTONE conceived, that the Bill in• volved in it the interests of private merchants in Lon don and in Liverpool: he thought th:tt the best mode would be to refer it to a Seleet Committee upstairs. Mr. DENT said, the question now appeared to him to be this: whether the brokers and under wri:ers in London should compel the merchants at Liverpool to ship and land their goods a second time, and run all the hazard of losing them ? Sir T. METCA LFI., said, that London was the only market for the %ale of East India goods. In 'I tic!: the owners of the goods in question had a verthed that they would sell them in defiance of the law. But an order sea; sent down from the Com missioners of Cus:•:.:, that they should not do so.— He would not se this Bill, nor did the East India Company mean to do so. Mr PRINC EP said, as the Bill was for the relief of individuals, his objedions against it were re moved. Mr. GILES Gbjeled to the Bill, as being a parti cular case, in which a general A4I of Parliament was about to be dispensed with. Tne Al of the 43J of the King provided, that all East-India goods, whatever British port they were brought to, must be sold in London only. The parties who fitted out letters of marque, and brought those goods to Li verpool, must have kno.vn that law, and could not have aeled under a misconception. After a reply from Mr. Ross, the Report was received, and Counsel ordered to be heard to-mor row on the 3d reading of the Bill. ADMTIONAL FORCE FUR SCOTLAND. The SECRETARY at WAR moved the Order of the Day tor receiving the Report of the Bill for rai.ing an additional force in Scotland. Lord A RCI JERALD HAMILTON said, that in duty to the nation at large, and his own constituents in patticular, he must oppose the present Bill. lie particularly objated to the manner in which the men were to be raised ; and the manner in which th , y were afterwards to he disposed of. He wished to know how they were to be disposed of in time of peace ; how were they to be retained in time of peace? and how were they liable to Le called upon to serve again, should it be necessary ? The Bill, he considered as nugatory, in its immediate objeet ; and in itspermanentobjea, it was unconstitutional. Mr. Pl . l' l' said, he - was n•'t prepared to give a precise answer to the Noble Lord's question. All he would now say was, that whenever peace arrived, it would be the objea of Parliament to consider what provisions should be necessary to keep up this force during the continuce of peace ; and to fix the times for calling it out. Mr. KI::NAIRD declared his feeling of this mea sure to be that of his having double the objeEtion to it which he would to the other Bill relating to Eng land. He would allude to one point in wAich Eng land and Setiland differed materially, and that was with respell to the Militia. He certainly tlicraglit the Militia had been encreased to too great an extent in England ; and therefore the reduaton of it was no evil ; but that was not the case in Scotland, where the Militia was in point of discipline nearly equal to a Regular force. In that country, more than any other, theyoungersons of gentlemen were in the habit of getting into the army, and of seeing aau tl s2.tv ice. Many of these persons went into the Militia, and the consecinence was, that the Militia of Scotland ►~ was heter officered than that of any other conntriVl In the 45sznce therefore of regular troops, Scotland' safely relied on the militia for defence ; and by the aid of the spirit and the exertions of the distinguished Commander in in that. comitry. they were ren dered so perlea in discipline, :IS L 3 he inferior to no troops v:h:tever. From these considerations it must be very unvi.ite to reduce any of the militia in Scot land. Ilety.ioin this ISiil an I the other, there was :mother ntatejal diff2rtvce, and that was the ma. chinery possessed by England for raking men, which was not in Scotland. Here th , , poor laws would be the m7ans of getting 0r n in every parish. In Scotland there were no poor laws, nod tlitTefore the heriturs of parishes had not the tam: machinery to work with. But as these heritors were in general country gentlemen, the mode they would adopt would be to meet and assess chem.:lees to raise a certain sum of money, and that would be given to the crimps for raising the men. This, therefore, • would be a tax on the proprietors of land, nr; ie other words, a land tax ; which was diresltly con trary to the articles of the Union with Scotland a violation of a solemn engagement, which he called upon the Irish members to oppose, lest a similar violation of the Union between their country and this might take place. Mr. ROBERT DUNDAS defended the Bill, and observed, that so far from heritors subscribing mo ney to empley crimps, he believed they would have influeuce enough among their tenants and neiglr 'pours to get the full complement of men requ;redcf the parishes. As to a land-tax in Scotland, the same elbjeetion apilietl to the Militia and Army of Reserve Ads. The SECRETARY at WAR observed, that the Hon. Gentleman who complained of a land-tax in Scotland had d.•clared, last year, it was a breach of the union with Scotland to lay a duty on malt there. But would the Honourable Gentleman say, that a measure, which the exigency of the pre sent moment rendered absolutely necessary, was now to be opposed, because it mien contain some. thing contrary to an Ad passed 100 years ago ? The Report was then received, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. DOLLARS. On the second reading of the all to prevent the counterfeiting of do lars ; Mr. PRINCE P opposed the principle of the BM. He began by taking notice of the several issues made by the Bank, of dollars, and their refusal af terwards to take many of them back. He then oll• served, that, fur the first time, Parliament was calla upon to sanction a proceeding, which declared, that certain pieces of coin sheuid not be counterfeited; and, he would ask, what security was there tl-at these pieces of coio were not counterfeits? .No coin should be suffered to circulate under the sanc tion of Parliament, which did not come from the mint. This money was coined by an individual at Birmingham ; who could tell to what an extent this money might not Me coined there I or how rnanr counterfeits might net be made A coining MAd' ito was to be exported to Denmark ; whO could tell but in that country counterfeit money migat not be coined and sent over here Ile objelled to thbse pieces, because they had the Kir.g's image on them; because they took away from His Majesty's prero gative ; and because there was no check as to tFe quantity which might be issued. He hoped that some regulation might be made to corred the s specie of the country. Silver was brought over here from France, and circulated at less than its real va lue. lie earnestly hoped the Committee of the Privy Council would make some report on the coinage of the country. Mr. STURGESS BOURNE said, that the new donors were issued solely by, and on the credit of, the Bank of England. No person could be com pelled to take them. They ought rather to be con sidered as notes issued by the ilank, than as coin. If any loss accrued by means of counterfeits, the Bank, and not the public, were the sufferers. The Hon. Gentleman might as well resist a bill for pre venting the forgery of Bank paper, as this Bill; for it was merely to protect the Bank agqinst counter feits, in the tokens which they issuej. They did nut purport to be the coin of the realm; they were merely medals beating the King's head on one side. Sir M. BLOX AM said this was the first ti ne he had heard of any silver coin being bonen from France to be circulated here. - The Bill was then read a second time, and order ed to be committed to-morrow. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of ' the Corn Exportation Regulation Bill, which was I received, and the Bill ordered to be read s third time to-morrow. • The Committees of Supply and Wart and Meani4 were put off till Wednesday. 1 The Irish Linen Regulation Bill was read a thirdl time and passed. It was ordered that the House should to-morrowl resolve itself into a Committee on the Cotton Mann-, fsZturers SLAVE TRADE. Mr.WILBF.RFORCE moved the Order of day, for the further consideration of the Report os the Slave Trade Abolition Bill, and then moved that Counsel be called in upon the same. e Mr. DENT said, that s in c e th e U n i on w ith r. • land, there were many members in that House why had never seen the evidence taken some years before at the bar of the House. This was a thing th;. Members were entitled and therefore he wish.. the Hon. Member would put off the consideration LI this business fora longer time. Mr. WILBERFORCE shortly replied ; atEa which the motioa was agreed to, and Counsel wen , called in. Mr. Pi OOT having been heard. Mr. Pxotir■ wo going to reply; when Mr. F, ;Ara rose, aid proposal it the farther hearing of Counsel s h ou ld be pos t . poned to afford th e Petitioners time to prepare. Mr. PITT' objeaed, alleging that the case ltii ' been fully argued, that the amise was alreadg possession of sufficient information upon the sohjr‘ and that there was no reason to expect that the iu• ther argument of Counsel would throw ai.y new . ligt upon it. The question being put, that the Bill be engroosea a division took place, when there appearinl-1 Ayes 52 ; Noes 9. The Bill was then ordered to be read a shad VA on Wednesday. Adjourned. I. ..