The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-05-26 00:00:00

rote; two elsi'erlyladies had got judgment in their favour in the Court of King's Bench ; a writ of error was immediately issued. and they remained i n law fur the space of 3 or 4 years, in a state of melan choly privation. He hoped and trusted that the House would enter into the consideratiou of this important subject; sad moved " That a Committee be appointed to inquire into the srrear of causes remannug for trial in the Court of Chancery, and to report the same to the House, with their opinions thereupon. And also into the number of Appeals to the House of Lords, and the ‘Writs of Error waelog tin judgment." Sir Aimee Pleceerr saiii, he was convinced his Hon. Friend had been induced to make the pre sent motion by his anxiety for the public welfare ; but :is he did not see that it had, in the least de gree, a tendency to effect any object of public good, he would advise that the motion should be withdrawn. He highly praised the conduct and exertions of the Lord Chancellor, who had •ever remitted in kis exertions to facilitate the business of the Court. Ile was the mere free to my this, as he was not personally acquainted with the Noble Lord. He was equally willing to do justice to the Master of the Rolls and the Masters in Chancery, who had also acted with the must unremitting assiduity. Ile slid, that the reason why more causes had not been tried in the Court of Chancery, woe, that the form of the Court had been altered ; many causes being ter. minated its coasequruce of milers. This price tice redounded much to the credit of those who hail the presidency of the Court; as causes which could not, according to the nature of things, be ter:ninated speedily in Court, were decided almost in a moment, and to the great satisfaction of those concerned. The delay: in the Court of Chancery were tint owing to the Lord Chancellor. but, in a great measere, to the suitors themselves, who threw the blame upoo the Conn. Some remedy might indeed be necessary to be applied, on account of the increase of business io the Court ; but surely Cie means which his Hoe. Friend had proposed were not calculated to effect it. No progress could be male is a Committee at this advanced period of the session, upon the subject. At all events, the persons who (did there exist a necessity for such a remedy as was hinted et) should apply fur it, were those under whole eye the business anil iininediate coocerns of the Court were directed and performed. lf his Hon Friend should withdrew his motion at present, he would not be exempted from bringing forward that or any other at the next session, when there wouldeexist a more reasonable hone ellects iog an improvement. The Citecettoi of the EXCIICQV R 'aid, that ke knew, from a co:niaiiiiication he ha i hod with the Nislo:4 Lord who pr tided over that Court, that he had turned his mind to the subject ; it was, however, too late its the session to do any thing at present. Mr. M. A. Tavt.oa then consented to withdraw hi. motion, wishing it, at the same time, to be un derstood, that if proper steps were teat taken to rea meaty the evil, he would renew it early next Session. The motion Was then withdrawn. CATHOLIC QUESTION. Mr. Peanut?. moved the Order of the Day for resuinieg the adjourned debate upon the subject of the Roman Catholic Petitions. Sir Wi LTA eat SCOTT then addressed the House, but mu so low a voice as to be with difficulty under• stood in the gallery. Ile begun with declaring his ouinion as most decidedly against the motion of the Right Hon. aintlemau opposite (Mr. (;rattan). to whose splendid eloquence he paid a just tribute of applause. Tke Right Hon. Gm•leinan had said. that religion was a suhjert which had no con nexion with politics, and which, therefore, should be considered independent of the Civil Power; bur, in the same sp. rch, he admitted, that political attachments might justify political interference. This was the ground upon which the Legislamie had proceeded with respect to that body. That part of the Right lion. Gentleman's speech, which related to the religious contests lii Ireland, lie should decline contesting; he was not sufbc:ently ac quainted with their history, nor was it a subject upon which he won't,. dwell with any satisfaction • to his feelings. One question, however, he would pot upon the subject, was, the Right lion. Gentle man prepared to assert, that all the calamities to which that unfortunate country was exposed, were owing to the effects of Protestant aggression ? It was not fair that all should be forgotten upon one stile, and all recorded in brass and marble on the other. He would leave it to the Howie itself to determine how far forgetfulness was in any case a safe means of legislation, • or a proper key to the diacritni tation of right and wrong in the de cision of tyay particular question. The Peti tions which hail been prevented to the Ilouse, contained no qualifications or conditions; that qualifications and conditions were necessary was no recent discovery ; but even if it was, perhaps the situation of the Pope was such as to, account for it. upon clear principles, anti to prove the neces sity of-it at the prevent time. The difference in the situation of the Pope was, that before he was • willing slave, but now lie was. slave of necessity ; he wore the chain--(llear).—There was no security proport.d in the petitions against his interfereoce ; what then was the Committee to do. were they to try their luck upon the prioc'ple first, and then leave it to chance of what description the security should be, or whether they should have any a,- curity at all ?--Illeer, hear, from the Ministerial side).-..The Right Hon. Gentleman himself had mentioned is security--domestic nomination; but the Petitions did not mention it, they were silent upon the subject; and, as for as the House had any grounds to form • conjecture of their inclinations (towards such a proposition, they, must argue from the rejection. of the veto to the rejection of this. Whet right had they to suppore that domestic no mination wroth' be received more favourably, than the proposition of the rem? Was there not every reason to conclude otherwise. He wished that the Right Hon. Gentleman had been more explicit upon this point, theit he had stated what he meant by domestic nomination ; was it nomination by the Bi.ln.pa, Of lay the lay part of the commu nity ? did he think, or would any oat think, that either would he Recephablea, when either must amount to a systematical departure front the doc trines of the Church of Rome. It was ono,' this ground that the vela was rejected; nould it tmt operate still Inure strongly upon a still wider de parture ? In his opinion it would go to shoulder he sovereign Pontiff entirely out of - the business, That there were many initsibers of that Cnurch, as well as of every other, who were iiiclined to relax the doctrines, or to use a more fashionable phone, to liberalize them so far as to inert the present occasion, he did seot doubt ; it was to be con sidered, however, that they were not the lights of that 'Church, and that though they might determine for their own consciences, they could not for the consciences of others, nor fur the con duct of the Church in general. Doctor Milner, whose intrepid sincerity in the avowal and support of his opinions, he commended, was a surer guide, and strouger authority. upon this head. lie had told them, in plain terms, the feeling of the Catho lics upon such points. Ile had said, that "to attempt to disconnect theta front the Bishop of Rome, was to attempt to divide the head from the members of the Church." He Sir %V. Scott) would be glad to know what hope they could have, that the Catholics would abjure s e 4ritital al legiance, and do what wool., be e in effect, to declare that they were not Catholics ? But supposing that they were inclined to come to such an arrangement, he would be glad to know how it was to be dune, while the Pope remained to custody; was it to be effected, a literals; tepee run ?" was Bonaparte to be applied to for his con seot ? was he to be asked to permit the Sovereigu Pontiff to authorise an arrangement, which would take from France the hope of influencing the Irish, through the median. of their rele:ion ? It never could be carried Mtn effect; but suppose it could, were all the difficulties then removed ? would there exist no longer any reasons, why the Protestriit, or, as they called it, the Non-Catholic Govertiment, should resist tiler claims? He ascribed the greatest influence to the I lierarchy of the Ca holm Church, and coutended, that spiritual power was capable of being used as a temporal engine, which might be wielded with the must overwhelming effect. Ile was sure that the security would riot be given coil sistently with their doctrines and tenets, and that if it was, it would not be sufficient. For these reason* lie felt himself called upon to give Lis decided ne gative to the motion ; which, he was persuaded, would not be acceptable to those for whose satis faction it was proposed, if accompanied with such a condition. Sir Joao breWears. began with observing. that every time this motion was brought forward, its op ponents were under the necessity of changing their ground. At one time the coronation oath was in. meted on as the greatest obstacle, at another the conditions and provisions with which it was to he accompanied, presented the difficulty. To the coronation oath, though it was now abandoned for a time, he should cal: the attention of the House. When Gentlemen resorted to it as an argument against the granting of the Catholic Claims, they would do well to consider the circumstances under which it was made ; the great names of Somers, of Lyttleton, and llainpden, had taken part in the de bate upon it ; and it was accompanied with a pro viso that no King should be considered as plee. d against making any alterations which might be nee cessary to the welfare and security of the Protest ant Church. But now they objected against going into a Committee, they objected 'Ramat considering how they might redress three mitlions of His Majesty's subjects, because the suggestion of his Hon. Friend did not appear practicable: The Committee was the place to determine the practica bility of , the suggestion, as well os the practicabi lity of affording the redress.- The question was, then, whether they would arm so great a portion of the force of the nation, and unite the minds and hearts of all religions in the defence of thee com mon country, in this moment of peril ? The peti tioners preyed for redress; they stated their loyalty and attachment to the public interest, and claimed, upon that ground, • release from restraints and dis ahilities, imposed under particular circuintitanees. which hod now ceased to exist ; they prayed not for any new privileges, but far the restoration of old ones; and the House should recollect. that a Protra's ant Ooveninieut existed before they were deprived of them. How then could it be said that disquali fications were necessary, under all circtimstencee, to the maintenance of the Protestant Church ? God forbid that it should lie necessary to rest it upon such a principle. that the Established Religion should be contracted incompatible with the liber ties of so great • portion of the community. The true policy of Government would be to let the Catholics look forward to the high situations which' each profession afforded. They could not expect to acid • Marlborough among the Cntho. un'il they gave them an expectation of rising to his rook ; they etttild not expect the energy of ambition, without affording a prospect or • possibi lity of its glory. When they looked to the Cohn lies in other countries, they could appreciate their merits, and celebrate their exploits. They could admire a Hittite arid so O'Donnell, but they did not consider the consequence or driving such men from home, and compelling them to become the orne went, of other nation.. In what part of Europe bail they opposed the power of France, in which they did not find Irish Catholics contending in the fume cause ? Where was if that the Usurper had tint met an enemy, and a breve one, hi those doubted, disqualified individuals? Look alsotu the Bar: there, ton, they had shut them out from honour; although he doubted not but they would find some difficulty in poitititig out the danger resulting to the state from their becoming King's Counsel or Serjeatitt. As to the army and the navy, the system was the same ; they admitted them into the service, hot there was no career for them to run ; they were stepped short in the very commencement ; service was permitted by law in Ireland, but only tolerated by sufferance here. ( Hear, bear.) They had more than this to complain of; they were &- barred in some instances from communication with their spiritual instructors; they were forbidden by the Commanding Officer in Sicily to hold any correspondence with them; and the Commsoding Officer himself bad declared that it was not from clay objection to the characters of their clergy, but upon general principles: What then, he would sek, could they expect from men treated in smelt a manner? could they expect any non tit in • languid passive oh:alleles.. destitute of that spirit and energy which constitute the glory will the stability of stations ? They had pursued the Catholic into every profett,ion end situatio # of hie, with the same excluding ob,tratting system ; nay, to such a pitiful length had they carried it, that they prevented him front becoming Sheriff. ,or Sit'u-stieritf. Many oldie penal law, as tinst Catlieu lies in Ireland were done away by the glowing liber ality nftheirProtestant brethren, but theGovernnient ought to proviute that they should not be - indebted to mercy for what they claimed from justice. The r;overninent haul also n accred piedge to re lilstse.— Mr. I'ttt had declared, after the Union, that, how ever prudence inigiit dictate the withholding them, while Irtland had a separate Legis!ateno, the ex tension of the few realauning tights ought he grant ed them with perfect innocence. Such was the laa gunge of Mr. Pitt; yet this was the tenth year since the p.:st:in4 of that measure, and the few re. 'naming rights were still withheld with as ranch pertinacity as before. If it was thought that cons ditions should be annexed to the grant, they should state the conditions. They were net call ed upon for any new rights, but fur a renewal of old ones; and it became them well to con sider whether, in the piesent state of thing- , , it *as not necessary that the a hole force of the country slioahl be embodied. Such was his con fidence in the loyalty of the Catholics, that he did not think eve° a persuitunice in the some coarse could alien de their atfections ; bat tt could nut be expected tit it they would feel the same euthusirstn, in favour of a Constitution which they did not lully participate, with those whit were aelinittuAl to all its benefits; it was nut in human Lome. It had beet, stated, that the priviteci a applied fur were indif ferent to the people at large, tie they affected only the higher classes of that persuasion. To such uu assertion, lie should reply, in the language of the people themselves, to the Irish Parliament. with which he should conclude. To that Parliament, they had stated, that " the withholding of them ass an insurmountable harrier, a hid) divided the people, and that the want of them was the want of a bl. sing, for which there was no C 011111 1 .111• Takla." Lord CASTI.EREAGTI thought it unneceesary to . state his °lronton to the House upon the Kriteria principle of this question; the extension of those privileges to the Catholics, coupled with a security to the Established Religion, was an act which lie con-idertd calculated to produce the best effects. He lied opposed the further extension of tins while Ireland had a separate legislature ; and had even felt it his unpleasant duty to vote against grautiug them the elective f anehise. It appeared to him that it was *opted upon both sides in extremes. The only question was, whether the presumable extent to which they could hod their way bin, the Legislature, was likely to involve to danger the religion of the state? Ile could hut separate the Catholic from any other dissenter ; and. wit bout bringing any charge against either of them, be might be permitted to Pay, that they could not be so much attached to the Established Church as those who professed the Established Religion. The Protestant Church he considered united with the Constitution, and likely to involve it in its floe. It would be proper for them, therefore, to inquire. whether they would hive sufficient power to protect it against all dissenters, Protestant and Catholic ? It was, he showed, grating to be excluded front tr velling the course of ambition ; and he wished t eat proper securities could be given, and the insainire adopted, which would forbid all exclosiim. —Hr did hope, that at the Union this might be done; and though his Right Honourable Friend, now no more (Mr. Pitt) had declared him self favouralile to it also, he had never cousidered it as a measure of simple coneession. The Hen: Intranet (Sir John Newport) in his quotation, had overlooked this expression. that " whatever course was taken, the Union would be a blessing to all." Ile described the Hierarchy of .he Roman Cada( lie Church of Ireland as snore po.verful in its nitlitelice over the minds of the people, titan the Commit u tion or the Lew. anti more calculated to do evens ve good, or extensive evil. It was right they should kkow that theCatholie Hierarchy of Ireland was understood to be inure allied to the Papal Power, now miller the dominion of Fiance. than any other Catholic Hier archy in Europe (.4 try qf /19, 710.) it hail gluey' heeit the policy of this island to exercise its power in defending the Clergy against the see of Rome; unfortunately, however, no such struggle was at tempted in Ireland. The 'Catholics ought to know, that there was not a Catholic coantry in Europe that did not shrink from foreign interposition I even in Spain no intercourse was held with the See of Rome, without passing through the temporal authority ; it was so in Austria and in Frasier. The Catholics were now pressing their claims upon the legislatore without putting themselves in a sitar. tion to obtain then). This contory might require such securities from dim as the Catholics anther coun tries gave to their Governments. An Hon. Barr. (Sir J. Hippisley) had stated correctly the other night, that in 1799 an arrangement was set on foot to make provision fur the Clergy of that persuasion, Ur (Lord Castlereagh) thought that great evils re sulted from their poverty, which he and the (:o vernment were anxious to remedy ; they demanded security from them, but not a direct iufluence. All that was required was, that the Government should know those whom they appointed, to judge whether they were such persons as they would object to. It appeared to hint, that at that there was a disposition in the Catholic Clergy to eon before the Goveritineet, in acknowledging the policy and propriety of the arrangement. They did not appear to him to he jealous of the power required, or to considerit in. consistent with the tenets and principles of the Church. But this was only a small branch of the arrangement intended by his Right Hon. Friend, the whole of which he had not now time to explain. It appeared to him that they should have no corn . munication with a foreign Court, that should not pass under the eye of Government. The state had endowed other dissenting sects, and when the propo sition was made in 179), the Pope was not The whole essence of the question lay in thi 4. that "whether the authority was ripiritual or femora 1. should it lie in the See of Rome ?" The House should know that Ireland was the must papnl ei.lio try i n Eur o pe, and depended more upon the Pope fur its liberties than any other country six distrieta in Ireland, as allowed by the Iftiii. Mot. (Sir .1. C. liipiogley,) they avere govercwil by the spirit of thc Collard of Treat—a Couucil cola- 4 * 11 ,77vii l e g oe f to,nti Italian d augmented more , the pipe titan mm• il ever did; io thus habi t e r ini r a C v li a o t :: t i l o i n i t u c t - 4 1 1 1 4.1 :7 11 „ .. .,1 1 with the beau iu on his own is tithwity, attedeit.thlii:biewyPeasitheitailrote.tittats_ „,„ 1 the Clerey. He (Lord C. tad tile b i t h Thi a n :t l i ni a l Zi ' ll• l er tl elee tht ted Cl b t y r • lCY him l e . A care its .the Catholic imintries, use in Use Iwo itgasted of the Catholic Churehes, the Otani Stud it miss is power is hich ought to Ire aistioevlS looked into by those who were at the Lead of of. fans i o the itate. Here be begged to elan! lA N . "Luraeleurag"telfaiusine:l7tethibtnitligtratt:lieonliicknstr:ittlen"ditibi etttwohaelletestlYtHillitiet4:l;77:',.. lees might Mt bm granted to tire latter. e a opmion ties tnatutnited by some, that it Weakt he better to have en Episeopacy Li the iiish hut that it sl•ould be ruodelicd after the syst em the Netherlands. He was of a dill:emit neniisa:se A Catholic Episcopacy eta less (finger :a4, *l4 more easily turned to the valley of the Own., flits great bodies of Monsters, such an it ties quireul the utmost skill in heverimrent to retiree- A Catholic Episcopacy, in a stibmilimite degree is the Established Chureh, might as weltesi.t in lh laud, as the Presbyterian religion in Stotiaiet._s. After having said so much on the general he would now say atimething on the charge east had been mien surged, that she public NM, anal moter.tastiliiig held out at the Union, tete violated to the Irish Catholics. In speaking sio this point. he trusted Ciumeemen wool.l lay tante sit party feehtig, which, ins argutueot ugliest a ortru tical °Amnesia, often had rl very Its:Stlremoseffit% upon the public mind. He haul to stat e oiatiottiv, that n t exolaindiceis were matte lit tieverruneno at the time of tit Union, of their inteetions, ts thee thsu to provide for the Cuttrolic Clergy. Tins never engaged to propose the Catholic (4:testis% or p %Y.* it fill the Legislature. The piiiisiole pa woes as Mr. Pitt, Lord Contwallis, and I,r , t:tel! was, that it would be better to make si t y tooLiessions to the Catholics, es uniting from the go id-will of their Protesti.nt brethren, than allow them as the results of any previous armlet , fiends. lie did not mean to say there mieht eat be strong impro.sions oh the Catholic to od , Csalt some relief would he the cousetpience of tetu toor sure ; but this arose merely from the elf. et of , ss traueous circumstance% and not from an suer, standing milli a Government r.ldett invtrt.'oll, n• 9 them that their claims would be left ie the foe discussion and decision of the Imperial Padistilee:. The imugnage held by Mr. Pitt ilkd the reverie of any thing to commit the toeers.• ment ; and, in' no conversation that .1..1- lie I e d with the Chiefs of the Catholics, del he ectr state, previous to the Vnioni drat nil)' their favour would be taki;i ; and ii wi. not nti Mr. Pitt retired tram otlice, on the Queviao, lire; the Catholics could know, even from specelsino. what his sentiments were. if one party ei&rtywel hopes that the Union would be favourable to sir clouts, another party held ac t ually obstinate opo nions-s-that it would be the reverse. 'I lie Noble Lord, in support of what he had thus advanced, entered into a detailed account of the conespends mice en the subject between hum Mr. Pitt, anti Lard Cornwallis. and of two publicatians of that •Nobleineu ; deducing from them all; that no es peci•tions were ever held out by Cloveratuent to the Catholics at the time of the titmice. listing stated tlst.ne 'enctnustances, he 'repressed • hellos that after this explattatiou rio !cellos, of acriastioy would ever tempt to a repetition of Inch chargers which were nut only unfounded, but culeolated to create di sension said ill-blood in Ireland. Woo the ortient occasion his vole would he wit hal ever bee i. Ile hail always thought . that much ire jury wis done to the Catholic Cause, by agitahno the question at improper periods. Throe, tie was couvrneed, that many system,tic opooseis to it had been treated by its frequent intruittetnut snit" the Union. Nut but that discussions sumo be a Ivantageous ; and if the Boman Calirhis would make the concessions the% night 0.11 Ins". for the goOd of the State mid their own lanun‘ • (hear,) he trusted when the matter was so /fell understood. it would have a prosperous leer. He paid a compliment to the moderation with which the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. (batten) had. no the present, sod every other moss Won, brought forward this question; but yet it was s bad way so bring it on so often as to give Gentle* men a Milk of opposing it. By this means till cruse had been injured. He could concrtro nothing more di•couraging thin tile of t he tote h uistaimbl4rielotu H o n ou rable Ft r e a( ; question, and h(eo.its'easto.t: wn any plane the rflitraeonintt the subjecte t h u o u r authority any tui, re s d i f ic t om: d . rtl .... l ow ruttier, ott such an incision, to go into the detail. of a meesure or which the groundwork sal 110 i owl: Wised. In this question both sides were in i s unto lino to till Bath other great trutlrs, on the suid e .. ct of the concessions mutually to be made for ils purpose of bringing about - a polities! u n ion. la IliS opinion the measure was age. Provide d the ne " cessory allowances and protections were sgreid cia In time the Catholics might eapect any thins 1. ,r i1 " the liberality of the Protestants. if theyy. took I ntr..' steps, calculated to eclise, the convictions of 'twit minds. In another quarter be could tlefef tObsCli t to press the question; and. as a bare measure, c'' consistent with the safely of the country, lie cowl' vote against i.s going into a Coosaiiltre. Sir JOHN C. MPH/MST. Ia explanation, stem/ the nature of the six districts, which obeyed le e spirit of the Council of Treat. Mr. LAMB% dull not know whether this's% the most fitting time to press the guestioal but this i 4 knew, that a little longer delay would be thedi slraction of the country. lie put it to the Learil': Judge (Sir W. Stoll} whether it was fair in him. Wl''' his own greet authority. and hacked with that " 1 the University ofpxforil, to talk in the %agile win' nee he had dronee of iliiii,, , crs arising out of iel measure ! irscl of checks to be imposed. trillion T: iirlog where these dispAers were to conic. ci r , : i ' checks could he applisd ? It .... ..,,i the ,1.-7. - la, side of the Mime saw no dung.:. or ' doubted itswournis wber ever doubie I stn! ow:. • r A A :":°‘l:4