The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-03-27 00:00:00

They said that rectuiting for the Regulars w. at on its .t rapid andsuccesstul manner, and that the machi nery of the Defence An was proceeding n ith acce lerated aaivity. Be that as it may, he did not see low we could promise ourselves to obtain from this Bill any great number of men, disposable tor fo reign service. It was not pretended that the dan ger of invasion had altogether vanished ; we did 11.-1 tind that the fleets o: flotillas, coleaed in the ene my's ports, had been destroyed, or that their no mesons armies had yet been withdrawn horn tic coasts: Bow then, in circumstances, could ne think of diminishing the force necessal V S , l- our domestic protettion I lie measure was to be repro bated, as producing insubordination in every regi ment of Militia, and as imposing an additional nix • upon the landed interest. The proprietors and cul tivators of land had good reason to complain of this csmver ion of service; as, upon ensuing vacancies of the Militia, they would have to ballot again, and pay a second time for substitutes. In toe outset and first establishment of oar Militia system, the strot.gest argument against it was, the asser tion that all oppressive at mis s had an origin in the mation of a harmless Aliiitia ; hut this was well answered, by the observation, that being officered by country gmtleut n, the pi oprieturs of the shil, such a force mould be less tl,an any other under the in- i flueuce of the Crown. That they had been so officered, was undoubeidly true ; bnt such good and e , ncitutional Officers could not have been eb tained, if it was known that the present system would have ever been adopted. When this plan was proposed, in 1799, a solemn pledge was given, that it would not be again resorted to ; but, after this violation, wl a: reliance or conritlence could be placed in the pledges or promises of Ministers ? Mt. YOIIKE expressed his regret. that, on this nee:is:on, he was obliged to differ in opinion from the generality of he. brother Officers of the Militia. for he fully approved if the principle of the bill. however he might disapprove of some branches of its detail. The advantage of obtaining sixteen or seventeen thousand men, to reinforce the regular army, was obvious at this time—and there could be little doubt of that effea being produced What he regretted most was, that the measure had not been . hems resorted to ; as, it that number was now incorporated with th e regulars, they might, without loss of time, be led against the ea.emy. What he had to say upon the details of use measure, would best be deferred till the bill should be in a Commit tee—but he must now observe, that he Was adverse to any of those men being enlisted in the foot guards He had, indeed, the highest respect for that gallant body of men ; but, they were not dis posable. as our other force : and, besides, possessed many advantages which would induce volunteers of another description to enlist amonga them. He would stiongly recommend, that five or six thousand men shot.:ld be speedily curetted with the marine force, which he c, nsidesed as capable of rendering meet essential service As to all that had been said respetaieg the unconstitutional tendency of the mea sure, he sass no ground of that kind, which could stand in the way o f the advantage to be derived from this tempo: ary measute. 'I his word • consti tutional' lie often observed to be employed by Gentle men, to expres their own views of any subjea— :wit the wind • unconstitutional' was as regularly ap pned to the crintr.uy. Now, be was not aware of any thing ui.constitutional in the plan proposed. ( &institution called, in leases of danger for the verso* servis e of every man capable o f ! bearing arms ; but there was no constitutional reason why any min should not enlist into the Regulars. So far did he carry this opinion, that lie thought it would be adviseable to allow, as a permanent nice sure, a certain number of men from every company of Militia to enlist into PeAulars every year, and et stated periods. 'the question was,vrhetherany injury was likely, by this opm edam, to be sustained b' any inlividual, of such importance as to counter balance the advantages of this measure? But this surely could not be the case when no individual was called upon to enter for unlimited service without his own consent. As to the feelings of Militia Of ficers no the occasion, he must say. that he saw no reason for their being adverse to it. For his own part, his feelings were of a different kind. and he took a pride in commanding a set of brave men, who were ready to come forward at the call of their country. Upon this ground he had, on a former occasion. in conceit with a Noble Relation of his, given every encouragement to the enlistment of men from the regiment he had the honour to command. The men of that corps enlisted to the number of 900 into the 20th and 46th, which had since so glo riously been distinguished. The only detriment that could arise would be, in the event of any of the no blemen and gentlemsn employed in the Militia re sigaing in disgust for their men being taken from them ; hut that was a thing which he could not be lieve until re saw it, ant he should never snipe& such persons of such a aireliaton as to leave their regiments while the enemy continued his prepara tions on the opposite shore. and still threatened this country with invasion. He knew that some indus try was used to render them discontented ; for he was shewn a circular letter against this measure, di reeled to the different regiments of Militia, and signed by thirty-two Officers; but of that. perhaps, it would be enough to say, that eighteen of that number were in a systematic opposition to those who composed His Majesty's present Government. Those very Gentlemen, not tong since, lamented that a Government or Administration was not formed on a broad and comprehensive scale; but had that been done, it was more than probable that the same measure would baste been resorted to, in which case he fancied, many of these subscribers-could have thought very differently of it. He denied that it would i.e any burden on the landed interest. as the Bill provided, that at ter the men should enlist, when any vacancies occurred, the parishes should, pro em•oi, be exempted from the ballots. When the l'orlioment, last year, admitted that the Militia was more numerous than was necessary, they did, in a gr( it measure, decidts upon this question ; and as fist )4 1.idliol !eduction, in the manner before pro pese•f, wool.' be very slow in its progress, it was highly desirable to draw off the surplus for the rein- Incentent of one disposable army. He then ex pressed iris dislike to the provision for allowing the commanding officers to cut their regiments, as it were, in two, the consequence of svhich would be, that they probably would retain the picked men of the gretiataters emiliJight infantry, leaving to the Re . • r guars orsly that part which would be the least ef feetive Instead of that method, he should prefer the plan of allowing them to stlea a third or fourth of each regiment, and that the remainder, disposed to enlist, should be determined by ballot. Upon the whole, he was quite a friend to the principle of the Bill, and wished it complete success; but be hoped that the men so gained would be kept for the &fence of the country, and for attaining first an honourable peso., instead of being sent upon distant and dangerous citt e etlith Col. BASTARD lmented to find that the Right I lonrurable Gentleman, elm was considered as the champion and parent of the Militia, should nbw support, it expectedly, a measure for tearing it to pieces He could not account for the sudden change of his opinion in favour of a Bill, which was made the ste-stitute for the energetic measures he proposed himself, and which, it adopted, would kayo no ne cessity for haring recourse to this. This Bill, he thought, must re a d to excite insubordination and disunion in the Militia, and if the Right Hon. Gent. ii had this plan in view when he proposed the aug mentation of the militia, hewas ailing more disinge nuously than he could have expo red. The officers of 1 militia would not, he believed, resign their corn minions while the country was in danger, but he greatly hated, that this act would drive them to it ; at the sano• time that it would impose a burthen on, and disgust, the landed interest. They would, of course, tight like ere: y other Englishman, pro wit effort, ' if the enemy e ec landed, but after harmony and discipline were destroyed amongst their regi ments. they could n' t be expeaed to make any great exertions for the pr, jet of hurling the Emperor of the French, and King of Italy, from his throne (tome I.v/der was here erritell by the mistake of the Hon. Member, an mandating the Emperor of Germany instead ne the parson wit,na at was his lit 'dim 19 de ad-IGO—he made no doubt of the merits o. the Rt. Hon. Gentleman as Colonel of a Militia Regimen; but must observe, that, in general, at least, thoSe Colonels who most negletled their duty, would t,e the most removed from the operation of this bill ; that in those regiments which volunteered most, there was the least discipline, and certainly the least at tachment to their officers. Earl TEMPLE said, he did not know that he should have been induced to say any thing upon the Bill in the present stage of it, had it not been for the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Yorke), who found so strange a method r f recon ciling duties sn very contrary to each other, as those of a Secretary at War, and of a Militia Colonel. The only argument for this Bill, namely, that of getting a great accession to the Regular Army, was used by his Right Hon. Relation (Mr. Pin), in support of his ineffective Defence Bill, which met with the decided opposition of the Bight I ionottr able Gentleman. When this measure was resorted to in 1799, there vas a beer-r gr ou n d f or i t than now, as a distirot nbjea was then stated for it, an 1 a pledge given that it ',head teed be recurred to any more. Besides at that time the Militia Officers had only the proposition made to them of using their influence with the men to enlist for limited service in Europe, wh:reas now they were to be in duced to enlist for life, and for a smaller bounty than before. He could not account for the motives which could lead Mr. Yorke, in time of peace, to augment the Militia to 60,030 men; and now, in time of war, and threats of in.aeion, to vote for their redultion to 40,0001. He did not, it seemed, feel any constitu tional objeaion to the measure ; but he should have recollefted that the Militia was raised as a constitu tional force, aid for the specific ohjeet, on the faith of Parliament, that they should only he employed at home for the defence of the country, withrut being under the coutroul, or totally at the dis poo.l of the Crown. '1 be Militia was quite a separate establishment, and when the Crown ne- Fleeted it, the Lonls Lieutenants of Counties were invested, after a census lapse of time, with the power of appointing officers. It was not raised at the expence of the Crown, and was always paid by land-owners and farmers, who were at the expence of providing substitutes. It was in vain to say, that the men by this measure had the option of en listing or remaining, as they might think proper ; because every one knew that if their companions vo lunteered, those who refused to do the same would be looked upon as wanting in military spirit. It was, indeed, voluntary in the name, but, in felt, it was the contrary. He was one -of those opposi tionists, who, as a Militia Colonel, signed the circular paper alluded to by the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Yorke) ; but as he was drawn into the scrape by the example of his Right Hon. Relation (Mr. Pitt), on a forcer occasion, an I. he hoped, that Gentleman would not ii fuse to take his share in the blame r , f it, in saying, that :f an Administration had been formed on a b oad and comprehensive scare, the same measure would have been pursued, and no objection made to it ; the Right Hon. Gentleman only assumed a faCt, which he did not allow him entitled to do. The Marquis of DOUGLAS dec'ared his deter mination to oppose the present Bill in every stage of its progress, it being in every respell unjust, and a violation of the fai.h of Pall anent. He contended that the Right H n Gentleman I %lr. Yorke) argued unconstituuonal:y on the part of the Militia, and proved that he had neither delicacy nor feeling toward this establishment. He was at a loss to ac count far his apostacy. Mr. YORKE here appealed to the Chair, and submitted, that the language employed towards him, by the Noble Marquis, was not parliamentary. The SPEAKER informed the Noble Marquis that it would be necessary for him to abstain from any personality. The MARQUIS then said, he bowed with great deference to the authority of the Chair, and, hav ing no intenticn to offend. hoped the House and the Right Hon. Gent. would accept of his apology. He then proceeded to state that the Militia Officers did not so much übjea to this measure from feeling, as upon the constitutional ground, that by propos ing this measure to them, tilt,' would be defrauding them into aal acceptance "(what they had no reason to expe&. He himself, though by no means divest ed of the feelings of a Militia Colonel, objetted to it principally from its doing injustice to the proprietors and occupiers of the land, who would by this Bill be obliged to pay a second bounty for substitutes. It was fallacious to say, that all persons paid egisatly, and in proportion. for the army and navy. The Members of the Lnivei skies, and many other descriptions, were exempted from the operation of the ballots. Part also of the pay of Militia men WAS appropriated to the maintenance of their fami lies ; but when they should enlist into the Regulars, the support of their wives and children would fall upon the parishes. As a Scotchman, he said, he had to complain that the country was put to the expence of providing for 10,0 .0 men ; there were no more than 6,000 left for its defence ; and none of the Regulars stationed there, for their domestic proteCtion He heard a report, that the Noble Lord who had the chief military com mand there, had lately resigned it, finding that all those exertions of his which had gaiined him the confidence, respell, and veneration of all parts aid ranks in that country, were not sufficient to supply the military deficiencies. He must also objeCt to the measure upon the ~round of policy, when the alarm of invasion had not yet subsided. What chance had we of co-operating in any Continental war, when we were destitute of a single ally ? In 11's Majesty's Speech from the Throne, he only ventured to speak of confidential negociations' with foreign courts, hut no effeCt was yet produced from it, nor did hear of a tingle movement in out favour. lie dented that it was the wish or dis position of the Militia soldiers to volunteer in the regulars, ra- to part from the Officers who now commanded them. His Lordship apologised for having detained the House so long, and concluded by saying th it he spoke under the proteCtion of that principle which sanflionel every man in advancing what he thought was the gond of his country, and partizillarly at a time when its councils stood so much in need of uacommon integrity and eqdity. Lord STANLEY took a review of the argu ments urged by Mr. Yorke, and said he thought it was an unjust measure, and would be a much more expensive way of raising men for the army than any other which His Majesty's Ministers could possibly have thought on, nor could he see any argument cr. reason to support it, even in the slightest degree. The Earl of EUSTON said he had, on a former occasion, opposed a Bill similar to this ; but the rea sons which then induced him to oppose it, would now produce a contrary effeCt, provided the body on which it was to operate were to he allowed to choose whether they would enter into the service or not. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that as the observations he had to offer to the House were such as would not render it necessary for him to trespass at much length on their time, as on the present occasion he had the misfortune to differ in opinion from so many respeetable person ages, as the Honourable Gentlemen serving as co lonels in the Militia, it could not at the same time but afford him the highest satisfatlion that.he had on his side so high and respeetable an authority as the Noble Lard who had just sat down. There was, however, uric reason whic4 had been very ge nerally given in the ccittse of this debate, which he th u . .;ht was by no means founded in tact, sit. that no ground was made out which sli.wed the ozcessity of the measure in question. Now, in his opinion, the strongest grounds had been laid before the House from the very beginning, for it had been the inva riable argument on his side of the House, and nas indeed a p tint Do which all were agreed, that our Army (lid want an increase, and that it was a point the most highly important to have a disposeabl.. Iforce of such magnitude, as might enable us to of on the offensive against the enemy, whenever a pro. per occasion or opportunity might occur, and he thought it, *ler such an admisston, trifling to as sante and say, that we should endeavour to raise and bring forward that force, till some expedition or other, such as that which had occasioned a similar call un die Militia on a former occasion, should be aftually on foot, or on the point of being sent out. He adverted to what had been said by several Hon. Members in the course of the debate, relative to the change of opinion of an Hon. Gentleman near him (Mr. Yorke), which opinion he was proud of having in his favour ; and contended, that there was not any inconsistency whatever in the Hon Gentle man's having adopted the measure in question, be cause he had proposed one of a different nature, for it was certainly possible for two persons to have dif ferent plans for the same, or a similar measure, of which each might think his own the best, and yet, if he could not carry it into effen, he might very Fairly and reasonably adopt and support the other, if he should be of opinion, that it would be of service to the general interests and welfare of the Army. There was one argument very much in favour of the present Bill, in the instance of the Committee, moved for at the beginning of the present Session, by a Right Hon. Gent. opposite (Mr. Windham), for there was one point which expressly went to shew, that our Militia should be reduced, for the purpose of increasing our regular army,which it was the grand objerit of this Bill to do in the speediest manner possible. But it has been urged repeatedly, that this is interfering with a pledge given to the country, that 68,000 men should be kept up as Militia, for the internal defence of the country. He denied that any such pledge as had been ad verted to was ever attually given to any thing like the extent that was contended for ; the Aftiof Parlia ment, which was supposed to contain and give this pledge, was an AN wale (or the purpose of re ducing the Militia to 40,010 men, in t me of peace. The number was to be 61,000 for all Great Britain, in time of war; but in the Aft, there was an ex press power given to the King, to reduce them again to 40,000 as soon as peace should take place. He expressed himself surprised to hear that some Honourable Members, without considering the present state of Europe, or what might probably offer as a means of annoyance to the enemy, seem to think the best means of de fence would be obtained, by locking up, or chaining down a particular and large body of men. As to the arguments which had been used relative to the hardship of substitutes, he insisted, they were fallacious—for the whole that can happen is, the ballot was to be taken from the apportion ments for the whole of the kingdom, and then no person would have to find more than one substitute. One of the principal reasons that had been given, and most strongly urged against the measure, was, that it would injure the militia service, by suffering the men to enlist into the regular army. In this, however, every care had been taken to provide against any such disadvantage, that could be de• vised, and the present Bill was calculated to keep • the Recruiting Officers and Serjeants as tar from the .. h •. ~' !Militia as possible. He had no doubt, but re ci Along Serjeants should be able to g:t near men, they would be induced to use many arts , n duce them into the regular army ; but he pan:spi v denied that any instruCtions had ever been giver. by Govet mein forrecruiting parties to go into the coon. try forthat purpose. 0e the contrary, there had Sea one single instance, where an application of the knt had been made, and an etyltbs'e and dire refold WAS instantly given on the part of Goveriam-al. Every possible facility was intended to be given- to the Offieers of the militia, towards furnishing t h a t men, ie the way most agreeable and convenient t, themselves. If the four-fifths should he imme diately provided, in all such cases there would fre nothing RAMC undo than to deliver their several .iral respenive quotas to the Officers and Serjeants of it: regular army, at such places as ate appointed e s ccive them, and the trouble would be trilin..; ind As to the particular clauses of the bill, he w O O,l not, at that time, enter upon them, as the Omani tee would be the most proper place to do in. Thee were alto many consideratinns of deta !. inm seg u e he would nut enter at present. The neces•re 44p, creasing our regular at my, and adding bly to our dispiisable I •rce, had been admitted eel all hands and, as he had not heard any argurnats to convince him this was not the most prompt 41 4 easy method of doing it, he a: listed the bill worilit now be read a second time. Mr. WINDHA%I said, the Right Hon. Gentle man was now employed in taking down part of the building, which he had been several years in /airs ing. He had no objeCtion to his doing so ;on e l ; co trary, he liked the wiwk, and the mode of doing it, for a more formal, forcible, plain, and pointed condemnation, of part of his former system, could not well be devised and brought into :salon. Th e Right lion. Gentleman went on doing and undo ing ; one day bringing forward one measure, and then doing it away by another measure ; so thn you can never know what to praise, nor what to condemn ; hut his measures operated one against another, and you were induced to approve some, CO the same grounds that you make a hedge Ur spun. ing. ,We have militia upon militia, in swift and rapid succession First, there was the original milk tie ; then the supplementary militia ; then the Scotch militia upon the English ; in feet, the Right Hon. Gentleman had been piling Pelion on Ossa, in such a manner as to astonish anwreasonable judg ment; till at length he became bankrupt in the mad., and opened a shop fur abolishing the ballot. however, he had retained till the opening of his fa vourite measure, his , i-lbrated parish beauty, in her neat russet gown. with which hr. was most violendfia love. when he found he ci sal f no longer raise offi cers for the Militia ; an-I then that there was a pea want of men for the Regular Army. He then got rid of the ballot. Fiere•mis A second departure from his opinion, as to the principle of reducing the Militia, and the effect of this was, to bring him back to that state in which the ballot was again ne cessary. With respect to the present meavere. Right Hon. Gentleman denied that it was neces sary; and further said, it would not prove effica cious anl serviee.th!e ; f.w. said he, if we gain men to .the Army, we lose them from the Militia, and so ate vet y little the better. The truth was, that °Ricers of the Regular Army were by no means inclined to take men from the Militia ; and he had been informed by many esperien:ed, that military Office% wonld much :attire have ereirely raw recruits, than take men who had been servieg some time in the Militia. The reason assigned for this was, that there was something in the nature of the service in the /Alicia, that makes a man less traslable, and therefore they had mare trouble in bringing him to a state of com plete discipline, than one they had to train hewn the plough or the loom. The Right Hon. Gentleman then went into a similar review of our regular forces with that which he took at the beginning of the Session, and now as then denrecated the manner in which they had been raised by piece-meal.— He wished to see a general change if the whole system and Sc, vice of the arms • Ile mentioned again the difficulty thrown in the way of raising men, on account of their being ennst ed fat lire. If they were, on the contrary, to be enlisted for only a term of years, he was certain they would rush eagerly into the service; they would swum like bees, if the hive were ready placed to re ceive them. He adverted to the numerous objections which had been made by the Militia Officers, and said, they would have been less, if they had supposed this business was ever to have an end ; but the danger they apprehended was, that these calls on them would be constantly and continually made. and as such, it was not surprising they wet e so averse from the measure. He was very pointed in his ob servations of the means Ministers bad adopted for encreasing the army, and said he never saw se miserable an experiment of men's living on shifts and expedients. He adverted to the debate which had taken place on the Defence Hill which had taken up a whole evening to debate whether the measure had failed or not. It was to get 28,000 men, and had raised about two. kle made some whimsical allusions to a tailor and h s apprentice; but, from the dropping of his vole,', Ye could not distinetly hear it all. The objeCtio , • the Militia Colonels did not augur well to the sr , - cess of this measure; nothing short of some great r.- cessity should ever cause us to resort to what was so injurious to the Militia service, for, by doing so, We should lose more from the Militia than we should gain from the army, on account of a mere temp , rare expedient. The Army should be put on a her and permanent system, and be composed of CA, Same sort of force, or the service would be ruined. These were the general ohjettions he had to the measure, and induced him to oppose the further progress of the Bill. The question being loudly called for, the House divided, and the numbers appeared— For the second reading of the Bill, 148—Against it, 59—Majority, 89. The Bill WAS then read a second time. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQ:JiIR moved that the House do resolve itself ants a Com mittee upon tie said bill an Thursday next. Karl TEMPLE objeCted to Thursday, as being too short a period to give the qiiestion stifficiettt consideration. His Lordship was Answered by tle CnANCELI we of the Eacuegtuca, , The question was then put and tarried. and ar Bill ordered to be committed or Thursday next. Adjourned at Nine o'Clock. . %a I I 4 1