The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-06-21 00:00:00

,4r! __ • s tz ti th e give up •ene et t.* other. " w rhis rrenchi during a considewable time, ntgleded their Colonio, *ld appeared to triake their first and grand effort to attack us at borne. In such a siltation, and with these formidable prepu'ations going on under oar Very eye, and every day intreasing, he had no &hst hit the Hon. Gentleman woubl have been rase of the first to blame and censure Government, if they had, under such circumstance.;, dispatched a mins ber of ships to the East and West Indies, and there by have weakened the means of our defence at home. Ministers had in r6nsequence acted between the two. We had kept fleets that were superior, and were sepal to the t.tsk of blockading the enemy in all their ports. We had a superior fleet in the Meditersairean, that was fully adequate to keep in checV and over , ewe the Toulon fleet. We had a fleet at Cadiz, ano ther at Ferrols another at Rochfort, all severally legifate to keep the enemy in their ports ; and we had, besides these, a very strong and numerous squadron off Ireland. The Hon. Gent. had made a Charge against Ministers, on account of the escape of the Toulon fleet, and had pretty broadly insinuated that these wa:; something on the vory lace of this transa(tion, Loth with resped to Lord Nelson and flir John Orde, that called for lin inquiry. The Hon. Gentleman, however, must know the various and great difficulties there were in forming a blockade. - He now came et the sccoiid part, which related more particularly to the general state of Europe, and to the more dire& objefts which are contained in the Message, that we delivered to the House yesterday. The Hoanitrable Gentlemen had in this part .allitled pert:cubed) , to the Overture of the French Government, relative to peace, mentioned in the Message of His Itlejesty, in the commencement of the Session. The Hon. Gentleman had mention. ed that offer as frank and fair ; but if he had Ma. tureiy coesidered the words about that very time made use of, by the heal of the Finch Government to his own twa Councils of State, to whom he said, to That when England was prepared to comply with all the conditions of the treaty of Amiens, the whole treaty of Amiens, and nothing but the treaty of .Amiens, be would then, and only then, ,condescend to grate thin peace," he thought the House would not be disposed to regret the answer that hod been returned to His Majesty on that subjud. As to the Mersa ;e itself, under all the circumstances of ehe cote. the communication was as full as the nature of the busieess would at present permit. The Ho- nourable Gentleman complained that Ministers had not been m-,re speedy in bringing the negotiation to bear, and, therefore, he would wish the House not to pace confidence in them, by trusting them with ' this sum of money. He requested, however, that the House would refleet, and ask themselves candid le, whether a trenraChon of that kind could" be brought to a speedy issue? it must be 4 concert between the two powers, either to enter jointly into the war, and to persist in carrying it on against France, or to negotiate together a peace on the basis of securing the general interests of Europe. When we consider the remoteness of Russia from this country, the period of the year in which the negotiation began, and if, to the difficulties that country had to contend with are added, those of other countries, the Howe cannot be surprised that the negotiation is not brought to a conclusion. But the Hon. Gentleman bad goer further, and said that Ministers were to blame for not entering upon it soor.er, If by this he meant to attribute to them any deity that could be avoided. he could 'es did them great injustice. It ounce had mautfestly shewn, that her favourite and ruling system was to run an from one aggression to another, and that the will and yleasure of the head of that government was the only law by which it would be bound, that the court of Russia was induced to decline all further connection leith :hem. And after that ere::: took piece. the negotietion was immediately tom. tr.encei. end had been since carried on with every possible dispatch. The House would not therefore be surprised, that his Right Hon. Friend did not advise His Majesty to make any communication rehiring to it at present. Bat the Hon. Gentleman • seemeet to third:, that because the crown thought it oat not ready to make a commaaication, Pao Bement should therefore be kept together ; anJ he stoats not confide such a sum of money to the discrvien of Ministers, though he allowed there were instances of a similar confidence given by parliament to Ministers during the last war. But before the Hon. Gentleman bad mentioned the enet aim, he would have done well to know whether his Right Hon. Friend intended to call for the whole of that sum. In looking to cases of a similar nature last war, the Han. Gent. and the House will find on the Journals that on the Bth and h of June I 7t/O, the House voted a sum on an ar rengement not completed of no less than 3,000,0001. on the general unexplained large ;!round, of ena bling His Majesty more effeetnally to carry on the war. And certainly the diverting generally the power of France at the present moment, and draw ing it from operating direEtly against this country, must be equally important and desirable. The question was then on the expediency, and it is now the same. Suppose Parliament was prorogued, and the result of the nogociatioo such as to require the meeting. Parliament. His Majesty has it in his power to call them together in • fortnight, which is as short a period as they might perhaps meet in un der an adjournment. Mr. SVINDIIANI said that from the general view of the emintty and of the world, Parliament should pot itself Into such a state as to he able to ea as soon as possible. The House would consider that the Noble Lord said he bad increased the re gmer force 35.000 men, but these were not all gained. You should not only consider the aeltual netnher, but thesuercesirom woich 0 ey werederived. Some of tl.ens came from the Mello r, which was not a permanent source. Some were Hanoverian, very good troops; hut we could get no More of them. ' As to our Navy, it had been said the sea was our Own. and we were sole masters there, and yet • tt,e deets or she enemy were traversing the ocean in direftiens totally unknown to Ministers, and the Lest lotowledge we have cf them may perhaps be that they have. fallen like a thunder-bolt en some r - -•- --I.rAtiegiftetienr ~•- Gentfinleet oho professed themselves frien ily to Continental alliance, the moment thy) , saw a chance of negctiation, should call for a com munication that mast defeat it. They who recommend joint war and joint 'peace, should have sheun a case of culpable delay, before they proposed this measure, because the communication could not be made within a limited time. Mr. W 'won VA explained. Earl TEMPLE did not see how a call upon sli nisters, to make good their promises at the opening of the Session, could be to brand them in the eyes of the world, as stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman who spokelast (Mr. Canning). It was said that the negociation is not ripe for disclosure. All then he should ask eras, that the House might,be put in the same situ ition in which it was at the beginning of the Session. It was expo Red at the beginning of the Session, that the moment the negotiation was ripe for disclosure, it would be communicated to the House. Let then the House he enabled, by being kept sitting, to receive such communication whenever the Oppor mity may arise. Mr. FOX—" I cannot reconcile it to my duty as a ntember of Parliament, or as one standing in a situation in which I have been often placed, view inz, it as a question connected with the rights and privileges or this House, and the general policy of the war, to give a silent vote upon the present oc casion. Considering, however, the lateness of the hour, I shall endeavour to compress what I have to say into as short a space as possible. I think it in cumbent.upoa me to make some observations upon Ae early part of the Noble E.ul's speech. Dur ing the two yt at 6; !ince the conlmen:erneat of the pmeist war, there has been an increase of debt to the amount of $0 millions beyond what was paid off by the Commissioners for the rediscrion of the na tion it debt. The capital created in that time, in cluding three loans, exceeds eighty millions ; so that, exclusive Of the war taxes, which all must al low are considerable, we have added eighty mil lions by this war to the national debt, pruviously created, fur yon hare not a right to take credit for what has been paid off by the sinking fent The promises held out to us were, that there was not to be any debt beyond what should be paid off by the Commissioners. That promise has completely fail ed. The Noble Lord (Castlereagh) has, however, a carious answer for this. He says that promise was meant only on condition that the expences of war did not exceed a certain sum, or in other words, that the money wouli not be asked unless wanted (a forrib), far that is the plain mode of describing th e faet.—Now what has happened in the war tel lead us to unforeseen expences in the two years it has been carrying on, I do not know, for I am sure no man could have speculated upon a war of less energy and aaivity. As the intik:a of the Army wilt be b-ounla fni ward speedily by an Hon. Member, of whose talents I ente.lain an high 0-inion, and for whom personally I have :a great resl43, I shall leave it in his hands; butthat he will produce a system which will effeet the extraordinary things the flight Hon. Gentleman opposite ironically insinuates, I do not pretend to say, ;and for this reason, because I heard a similar prophecy of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Pitt), and from the same quarter, which has proved fallacious. When that Right Hon. Gentleman came into office, he was to amend and improve the whole system, and make up for tne ineffickncy and incapacity of the preceding Ad. ministraton„ and yet, after all t: is promise, he only' brought in his famous Bill. Without flattering then, my Honourable Friend (Colonel Craufurd), I de 'think that the plan which he has to propose, will be to the full as efficient as the B:11 of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt). That Bill, and the extravagant praise bestowed upon it, re mind me of a story respaliog the poems of Ossian. In a dispute about their authenticity, it was asked if Mr. M'P ierson was not the nuthoe, who else could be the author of that sublime and wonderful pro. duction ? To which Dr. Johnson answered, 1, why rnaay men, many women, and many children 1" So much then for this famous 11.11, to which such won drous virtues have been ascribed. The navy, we are told, has been increased by three ships of the line; but the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) says you should also take the losses into account. You might as well say, that in an estinrate of the army we should take into account all the deaths and deer. Lions, and reckon them as so many effective men. If, indeed, the late Administration had built ships in a warimore liabl?, to wear and tear, and decay, there might be something in this mode of tea• stating t but as I have never heard that objec tion made to Earl St. Vincent, I shall not here attempt to detead him against it. As to the ob servation that the enemy's fleets have put to sea, and that Ministers have remained ignorant of their destination, I think the answer to this ob jection is too general. As part of this answer, ne are asked, "will you :abandon the system of block. ade ?" I cannot but think, Sir, that, like other systems, it is neither universally tight nor universally wrong. It may be right to blockade Brest, and yet wrong to blockade Toulou. Well then, will I you blame Lord Nelson? Sir, I cast no blame upon Lord Nelson, who, 1 am persuaded, is one of the bat officers this country liner knew. Without know ing where the blame actually lay, I only contend, that the blockade of Toulon was deficient, the fleet having been out iu January and in March. If 'Poaloa be a port, the blockade of ,shish is practi cable, aby it was ineffectually blockaded requires explanation. Is it not a fact, that alter the Toulon h_kt first sailed in January, it took past of our Me diterranean convoy Din it not appear, from cir cumstances discovered upon that ociatoon, that the objet of the fleet was out of the Mediterranean ? and if so, it was the duty of Nlini,tets to have re inforced Sir John Orde off Cadiz. We are asked what intnimatiou do we expect Mimsters to have ? /he Amount of the Toulon fle t, of the hunriber of troop. embarked, were points easily asteitained, being visible to every eye is Toulon. If Buell, Mi nisters knew the amanita, they ha I a clue to their probame destination. Informatim, so far, was cc:. tairdr in the powes of Ministers to obtain, though, admit, from ncei.:nts and iniavendable delays, it might he late bef we it reached them; but it th.:y lid not revive it sonar time or other, they were es. aredingln capable. But little obsav an. i has been ,ale iii Lae course of toe J bate upon loci .nd.— 4tate ul that nom hm. teen c...rt!tf Kau !‘ bur rb.st term too st I 44171 q, hoore4er, tufa it ..ruesit..z. attJ lisuugh 1 b+.2 sONyproved ~,... of the cendel of Leta Hardwick° in many things, I believe th 4 s effect has been produced in a great degree by his moderation. The state of Ireland is, I admit, comparatively good, but we cannot look at it without anxiety. It never can be complete, as my lion. Friend (Mr. Grey) has observed. without the grant of the Catholic Question. But though the clergy cannot obtain the tull extent of their wishes, there are many questions respeaing tythes, their clergy, and some particular offices. the obtaining of which would greatly improve their situation. Those who object to the Catholic Question on account of the time, may not be friendly to the grant of a partial re medy, and prefer waiting until an opportunity may occur to give the whole; but those who are funda mentally adverse to the whole prayer of the petition, ought to be glad to get rid of it by granting a part." Mr. Fox next proceeded to state the paragraph in the speech frnm the throne at the opening of the ses sion, respeaing the communication with Russia; which, he conte:•ded, could only mean either that His Majesty delayed his answer to the pacific proposal from France, until he should hear from Russia, or that he was negotiat ing a treaty with Russia, and would give no an swer. until it was brought to an issue. "If the answer was liable to this double interpretation, we have a right now to know which is the right mean ing. lam to presume, that the Right Honon able Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) intended to give an expla nation open the subjea before the end of the Session, and if the result has not come in time to meet the regular close of the Session, the Ses• sion ought to he extended beyond the regular time, so as to meet the result. It has been said that the measure betrays a jealousy and distrust of Mi nisters, and would lessen them in the eyes of Foreign Powers. Sir, Great Britain has too long subsisted in its present Constitution, for Foreign Powers, and among them Russia, not to know that when the King of England promises money, it is upon con dition that he can get the Parliament to grant it. Should His Majesty make an improvident engage ment. it is no dishonour to him, nor violation of Al liance with a Foreiin Power, to withhold the means of fulfilling such a contract. The question in the present case is, whether we will keep the money in our own hands, or give it without knowing for what use it is intended, or even a promise that we shall know, as soon as the money has been applied ?—I own that I have no confidence in Ministers : that feeling, however, does not arise from any personal considerations, but from the situation in which the Administration is placed, and the manner in which it was formed, and still continues to subsist When we hear of hasty resignations and lapid conciliations, and the p reties remain together only because they cannot st end without each other, I cannot think such an administration worthy of confidence Allowingthe talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman to be thrown ieto the scale, I do not think the present Admini stration, therefore, more entitled to the praise of effi cacy than some of those which have beencontlemned for the want of it. Even from what has passed in the present Session, I think it impossible that any man cal have any great confidence in it. But it has been said, if you disapprove of the Minister, why not move far his clisens,el ? All I shall say ups: this poi ;t is this, that if the persons who have it in their power to form an salmesistration, do not think this a tem: requiring a lenriliel and vigorous admi nistrati n„ embracing all the persons capable o f serving the country. the people ought to cell them so. It such a ministry be not formed, lam sure there is no chance of this country weathering the storm. Ido not mean this expression in the pusil lanimous sense, that the nation must he aissolutely anitiliiletel, hut that it may be reduced to a state of depression from which it may not be able to reco ver. As to the principle of exclusi m although no real condemns it more than I de, yet, I am sure there is no man. let his private views and personal ambition he what they may, who would suffer such considerations to stand in the way of so great an objea. I disapprove of the cenclua of Ministers on account ut the length of the commanications with Russia.— They should have requested a short and immediate answer, and if that had been refused, 1 should not have considered the negotiation worth pursuing. I am a friend to continental alliances purely defensive, but even with Russia, a nation for which I Acknow ledge my partiality, I would not wish fur an offensive alliance ; because, I do believe, that not even the French Revolution has contributed so much to the present unfortunate state of Europe, as that want of confidence which has pervaded its several Members. The partition of Poland excited th it distrust of the great powers of the Continent, and the effeift has been since much increased by the s) stem of indemnities; according to which, countries are cet up and carved, and the owners transferred from one place to another, the: destroying eh pa triotic teeling and all confidence in the permanence of property a I,l . situation. These evils attach alike to Great Britain, to Russia, and Austt ia, as well as to France. They are all guilty, land should repent and arneuil. All those who would put themselves at the head of a confederacy to restore confidence and recover fr o m that state, into which the want of it has reduced them, ought to set out with moder ation. I would not, therefore, begin with an cf. fensive alliance with Russia, which might lead to a suspicion that I was aiming at a prepon derance and power which I might abuse. You should, therefore. have answered France, and pro , posed a general congress of Europe, to settle its af fairs vial a new and permanent basis. Russia and Austria would. of course, have been parties to this proceeding. I wish I could add Spain but, alas ! the most calamitous measure ever adopted had made her your enemy. It is nearly certain, that this course would have ended in a peace, to which all these nations would have been gua rantees; a circumstance more important than the terms of the treaty. But sepposing France to have refused this proposition, you would not be the worse. On the contrary, it would have gained you the character of moderation, and ob tained you the goodwill of all those Powers to whom you had given such a proof of your confidence. Upon the same principle in my terms, to the French government I would contrast my moderation with their ambition, my disinterestedness with' their hard grasping charafter. In short. I would make such a pi °position as I thought. were I a Frenclim in, France ought to accept, the same Ito be 4A/witted to Congress. I see a smile , • ...•.. , ... `sy ~,_ 4 (alhidiq. re &liege, te Afr. Pita, teni seen illembeeir ors Me Treetrory Bench 1 as if my ciple were something silly • and rid/et/hers. I say. that if it be silly, you have tried the other ciele, and you have not seceeeded '. l / a t it has 14k1, that we are alit, icndly to Com inteta i A iii 'I maintain that a treaty even wi h Russia, • combining other Stares, swlls/ put volt is, a situation than Tem are alreely i ard tsnabl- Fr to take many advantages which she nth:l-wise ne not have. Unless then there was a reasonable Inability that it would be followed by en Alliance Austria or Prussia, we were better wit ~.'it its' Mr. PITT began by observing, that he was eluded by circumstances from followine th e i Member through a great part of the field %%Nei had taken: u he could not discuss most of his: meat, without examining them in comparison the aairalscircumstances of the time, and the poi of the duirstietinn with Russia, which he could disclose. He should, there/Ore, only advert to th early parts of his speech. The army, the navy, t , state of Ireland, and the sailing of the mews fleets, had ben all pressed into the speech of Hon Gentleman who opent d the Jaime; hai these points were giver. up, for the Hon. Mee b r did not insinuate that he had any thing new to r'. commend respeaing them, and wished Parl•ainia to continue sitting for no other reason Olen the might, as soon as possible, receive a epsomite. cation upon the subjea of our telations with Rune % The taxes raised Within the year were to an ampere more then sufficient to answer any pledge; and i stead of increasing the national d•bt, it would found that t o les. than twenty millions were font -I nut of the public fund, ant fleetly the same amt.: last year, besides the loan of the present year of fee millions for subsidies, coveted an u;foreseen expeece. The sinking fund was growing up to a consider 'e e degree, which was a circumstance that ought not • be lost sight of, when contemplating the res. •urce ci the country. With all the pressure of ci-euntstancri therefore, it would be loon. i, that our rescurces you': prove equal to our spirit. With respect to the are. , there were some reasons for his not going into x it polka at any length, but it was necessary to tome two errors wlach had crept into the debate. He 1•.:1 brought forward a mode for recruiting the Ire , on which mitch had heel said, This; entree he considered by much the most espediti t that could be adapted ; and, although it ha! not an immediate effea, yet it laid a found tion fur a permanent system for the supply , t the army. The other mistake respelled the insnffi ency of the dispo.able force, but upon this point. : would be found that this force was nearly, if rot altogether sufficient, end the deficiency, it at ::., was merely local. With respell to the Rees, lie let that point, with the observations already made ins his Noble Friendobsei vin„ only that there might soon come a day when he should have some specific pre positions upon this suhjeCt. There had hecn fleet opposite every harbour of the enemy, eiric, troll unavoidable accidents. might be driven off, and e would be impossible for Government to know hoe.- to aa, unless there were double or treble fleets, a:- equate to encounter the enemy in every cpsaiter of the globe. With reseed to dee internal settatioe 4 Ireland, the efFcas of the Union were already Nip pily felt, hut there still remained various curie /or discontent,:which could not rapidly be cured tit v.:4 an objea of great anxiety, and no impute irm of blame against Ministers could arise out of it.— He would nut mix any thing inflammatory wil this saihjeft, but treat it with the utincet de. licacy ; he therefore declined entering into any di, cussion upon it. With respell to the original cause ot the war, it was thought right to enter into it, because we could not long support an lmeourdel: peace, and it was necessary tonepose that system of s iolence, pet a ty, and encroachment adopted ter France. We did not confine our hopes siserel.- t s the (lea of repelling danger, we endeaveured t•• excite other powers to join us, and in repel/Mr:the invasion, we meant to rend it in etch a manner as would onse the other European powers to reduce the pa rof France, and establish general tran quillity nJ security. The next point was, why i f we were not able to bring the negotiation sooner to a el-wilts:on 1 N hen e join; peace was nor a . tainable, a joint war was most desireable. The present negotiation may lead the powers of tie: Continent to emething very considerable; ner was it so shout an , ' simple, as only to look to one power. From the disjointed and debilitated Rate of the Continent, many diffieuties might yet arise. and the secrecy with which it was kept might al most be said to amount to mystery; but Ministers under such circumstances must submit to the impu tations of the public, but in the sequel, he trusted the House would be satisfied with the general pro priety tif the objea. Atter f.onie observations nears the advance' of mosey, a itleett stating for n le.t specific set vice, and the sanaion of precedents upon this head, the Right Hon. Grateman concluded by observing, that Russia was most favourable to the views ot His Majesty's Ministers in the restora tion of sectivity and tranquillity in Europe, and as the confidence oi the natio r was constimtionally pieced in him, he trusted the House would not refuse doing that which they were used to do, either from want of confidence in the Government, or a hostile disposition in the lloupe, and hoped they would net think it necessary to throw that slat upon it, which the lion. Gentleman meant to Jo. Mr. GREY made a most able reply. The question Iseing loudly called tbr, the Hoes, divided, and the nurnb:rs For Mr. G a v's Motit,n, I : 3—aza:nst it, 'ail majority against the Motion, I I. The remaining ordAs of the Jay Were then chi posed of, and at THREE O'CLOCK the House adjourned to this day. HATMAREET THEATRE—T. la Eveni Th , - and the Deem, with Lowe Laugh, at Laeas.atths, and OA V.flag* Lawyer. PRICE OF STOCKS. YKSTERMY. &Auk stock. 3 per Cot Reduced 4 per Cent Otnnium lutv Wig Is d.. 1. pious. enn«.l. f x 6li 50U LONDON .—P.suls.sPbT GEOIIGE DAVIDSON, No. 3). Wr street, St. Clertroes„ ark 4 publi..hed Ly 30SIA II k ()Fit, at tkr Office, Nom. : ). It.ek of St. Ctome , .ts (Num°, Strand, where linters to; the Paore, ( pow.ploll) well law duly stowed& dr. ' 01 nur distant plAte.1(101114. Petliament woalil not did (10 :rs duty it it vrisenteJ tq sepprate, when they cue .. aligh t wateh by wily a j3urning , inetemi at being 1...4 pt.o-siselea. I :i Mt. CANININTI: sail, the que.tion Lay in a very I as: t •er 'cdarayAp t .... Ai want eatraar.iitaii f,...t call • ' I :6 l ` ' ?er4lL•_, '' \ . 4 .... •,. 4 , . ..... . ....... -, e7r it ~.o; .- .., • - • -It .• iv • _ • • it ' It I r t s• i c ii; • tin tl Fat w o • le v es If r , JJJ sarttl n with W Point TM 1,1 o n e to th *I ":• e 3 rR of er b r to r.. arrtir lir nri.„ • !any • . moo* . 1 :td i . 7 Dnt-i A of five peace. et '1:0 lot • rce ci tancri you . : arr. ▪ t. it !Ort,:tt 17▪ 10.: edit! t It ha 1 rand ly snf6 int. t if t, ts, 'tie ;is.