The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1804-07-03 00:00:00

V s *met him at another place, and, withhis hat in his hand, went up to apologise for the mistake ; but Judge Fox, in an insultirg manner, drove on, with out nearing what Petitioner had to say. When the • Petitioner afterwards went to him to explain this bu siness, the Judge desired :him, in a commending :tone, to take his hat off; reproached him in the grossest and most insulting language, for neglect of duty ; and gave threttiens that he should be fined 5001. T!tt Petitioner huMbly conceived, that he had committed no crime to merit this opprobrious, abusive, and injurious treatment ; declared that he could verify on oath the fads he stated : that he 'felt himself injared and degraded; and prayed the House so grant him such redress, as, in its wisdom, it should think tit. The Petition was ordered to lie on the Table. A peeton from the Exchequer presented an ac count of certain sums of money, that had been granted, parsnamt to addresses of the flout:;', and which had not been made good by Parliament. AFFAIRS OF IitFLANII. On the order for the third reading or the Irish Caroms and Excise Duty Bill ; \lr. 111.1 fCHINSON said, he should beg leave i to trouble the House with sonic observations on the wretched state of the finances of Ireland. The debt of that country, he said, was now 53,000,0001. and it appeared their, while her mannfadures were almost annibilited, while her provision trade was declin ing, she had in one year added 9,500,0001. to her debt, while Great Britain, with the most flourishing mallufalEtures, with a degree of prosperi ty which extended to the utmost limns of the globe, bad added but twelve millions to her debt in that period. lide was a situation which one eras ::!most ‘ afraid to look at. Ile must, however, do justice to the energy with which a Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Fosses-) had come forward with a view of re medying :hese evils ; and be was sere he was actu ated by the best intentions. He agreed with hint in the necessity of contributing in every possible way towards the attainetent of that objea. The gentle melt of Ireland were very ilesperly called upon to look their difficulties in the face ; and unite together to ri- wove them. He cordially agreed in this ap peal : he was confident it w as a swe e t of .such t om e hat had caused the distres s and de gra d at i on cf Ireland ; and tad no doubt but that if the gentle men of Ireland e iatliei.• supported etch ottee, , 'they would be as birdied, joried by the other N.,. bL:s n: the legislature. On this occasion he most enter his protest against an opinion which had by some means or other gone abroad. the. Iris.: - rnen ought not to intelfere in question. im mediately relating to Great Britain (a cry of Aca..: flat!), nor Englishmen in questions relating to Ireland. He should lament and deplore aoe at tempt to carry such a principle into elfe& i. , .if any benefit was ever expeeled from the union, 1. e s this, that Ireland :night have the benefit of the ex perience and wisdom of the whole Legislature of the three kingdoms. The Right lion. Gentleman proposed, as a remedy for the grievance: of Ireland, that taxes to the amount of le,oool. be ierieil, and that the Gentlemen of the cou::t. y would end.....vniti to see those taxes pr. iperly collefled. He trusted that the Right Hon. Gentleman would not consitier these two arrangements as sulficient of there:elves ir to save that sink:ng country from ruin. For his ' own part, he should violate every feeling he pos t, sesied, s' he did .ot say that much more was ne eessory for the j•utpese of maker tb.• p. ople of Inliii . ..l assist in th:s great undertaei. g. In the formation of the Tres en Ministry, he very much lamented the principle of exclusion that had been aged on, by which the country was deprived of the !* benefit of those talents which were wanting at the present critical period. Yet when he looked at a Right tiononrable Gentleman opposite him, under whose government, for near twenty years, Iteland had in some respeets prospered, and fr't many privileges; when he knew the experience of that Right Hon. Gentleman, and when he recol letned the reason of his retiring from that office to which he now retu rn ed ; h e was inclined to omen fa vourahly for his unhappy country, and to hope that the Right Hun. Gentleman; no: forgetting the pro. mist he had made, would benefit by his experience I and in his closet, durin g th e ensuing recess, would I tern his gigantic mind to the subjea of Ireland, and think upon what might be done for its relief . and amelioration. He felt himself bound to make tnese observations, when he was called on to impose addi tional hurtl.ens on his country, that was already in an impoverished state. He must now call the atten tion of the House to the political state of Ireland, and ask what security had the people at this moment ntrainet arbitrary imprisonment, or the exercise of martial law? What liberty was there in Irelaud ? The lii , erty depended ( a die will of the chief governor, who had extraordinary powers vested in h:m ; and althoush these were exercis ed by Lord Ilardwicke with such mildness and justice, as to draw the people into a belief, that they did not exist at all, yet the powers might be • pet in force by any ether governor, and until they were done away, no cordial co-opera:ten could be expelled from the people of Ireland. The Right Hon. Gentleman ought to consider, that Ireland was on the very verge of bankruptcy. Every thing belonging to her Frcsent situation chewed the neces sity of an immediate examination of her grievances ; and that it was neither by taxes nor by armies the country was to be secured, bin by gaining and ri * vetting the alicaions of the people. I/ The further proceedings on the third reading of the Bill were postponed till to-rno: :ow. Sir JOHN SINCLAIR gave notice, that he would to-morrow submit a proposition to the Ilouse relative to corn in Scotland. ANTIQUITIES IN TILE BRITISII MUSEUM. Mr. ROSE presented a petition from the trustees of the RI-kith Mii.eum, in which they stated, that by order c: the Government, tbcy now had lately lot into their possession ..everal most valuable mo w:mots of antiquity, which were brought from Erpt, aud which formed a part of the trophies gained by. British valour in that country ; that for want of corvenient places to deposit them in, they were exposed to the inclemency of the weathe r, and for want of covering, were Eahle to sustain coasider able injiny ; that a Committee of the trustees had Prepared a pLn and estimate of an additior.at build ing, the experoce of would amount to 16,0001. an.. prayed that the /lou,e might take into its con ...aeration, tine propriety of enabling them to carry that plan into ellen. The petition, being read, was ordered to lie on the table. iir JOHN SINCL AIR said, the sum named in the petition was a very large oi:e, and he wished to know whether that sum was to he called for in the first instance, or whether th•e petition was to be re ferred to a seleCt ? _ _ Mr. ROSE said, the trurees had concluded that the necessary wi it k could not be done for a less sum. A survey might be made, if it should be thought necessary. Mr. FRANCIS thought 16,0X/1. a large sum to shelter those ant4iiLics from the inclemency of the weather. Mr. PITT said, the objea of the petitioners was n,t merely to cover them from the weather by throw ing a shed over them, but to make such an addition to the building itself as should render it a fit resi dence for those and other valuable monuments which might hereafter be placed there. It must occur to every buds that this ought to be done in a way to suit the symmetry of the building, and that no dis grace should attach to the nation it character by the negleL of such a public Mr. SI lERIDAN hoped, that, if the public was to be obliged to pay towards the enlargement of this building, more facility might be granted to the public in gaining admission to the museum; which was now very difficult to he prc.cured. Mr. W. SMITH thought it highly necessary to support this national institution, and thought the sum reytired was a trifle compared to the sums ex pearled in otht things. After some 4,l),erv.itions from Mr. Bat and Sir YouNo, th.: petition was ordered to Fr on the table. Mr. PITT moved, that the plan and estimate made out by the Trustees be laid before the House, that the House might judge how far it was proper to take the petition into consideration. This Tr:o dor, after some observations liom Dr. Liwasxca in favour of the petition, was agreed to. CIVIL. LIST. The House havingreseKe:l itself into a Corn mitte.•, and the accounts and reports of last Session, relative to the Civil List, being laid before the same, together with several other accounts ; Mr. PLTI' said, he should first call the attention of the House to the state of His Majesty's Civil L•st, which had been already brought before the consi deration of Parliament; and lie should explain the state it was in at the present moment. About two yetats and a half ago, a report was made on . this v,,hjea, an i until th at p er i o d, t h e expeaces o f the Civil Li: t bad exceeded the estimate made in 1787. These increased exaences were found under the de tailc I heads of salaries to Ministers at Foreign urts, household charges, occasional payments, and ne reared charges attending the police of the country ; the increase of stationary for both Houses of Patha n en , ; rh.• excess of secret service money; the rumor o..., expenses arising out of the relative situations of fotei;.l powers, and the difference in the state of hurvreince 17e7. In 181,2, a sum was voted to oiselutge a large arrear upon the civil list, and at that time it was stated that an entire wise a: ragement was necessary. But nothing on the subjea had been done. Since the payment of the last arrear, a further excess of dent, added to what was paid eff at that time, amou.a...d to 590,0u01. In the space of two sears and a half, the .rnotont was 230,0001.; an increase only conformable to that which had taken place be fore that time. He, therefore, hoped that after the sum voted in 140% the House would have no hesi tation in voting the last mentioned suns. With respea to the state athe Civil List, it was the opinion of the Committee to a hum it had been referred, that many changes ou.{l , t• to take place in it ; and that many of the cha g.te upon it ought t r be transferred front the Civil Lis:, and made part of the :ainual minutes. Many of there were new is their nature, and were carried to an extent which certainly could not be easily foreseen in the ye •r 1787; besides, those charges were liable to be varied from year to year, and therefore they ought to be sepa rate. All that he should propose to transfer were under the heads of occasional payments ; they were capable of being inc:eased or diminished, and amounted to about 135,01(.1. They consisted partly of the expences of printing, stationary, salaries to certain officers of Parlia:neat, expellees of police, law expences, payments to shei as on the convidioa felons, the sums granted to French refugees, ate. Thete were other expenses forming a part of this sum, under beads of a political nature, of which no estimate could have been made ; these com prehended secret service money, amounting now to 25,0001. extra salaries far ministers sent abroad on particular missions, anti various contingencies in the Secretary of State's, office. The whole of these amounted to one hundred and thirty-five thousaud pounds. On this point he would not. however, make any motion at present. The only other pro posal he had to make was a positive grant of some augmentation to the civil list revenue, the chief head of expence in which related to tradesmen's bills, which had considerably increased of late years ; and this was a circumstance. easily to be a•:tenunted for by all .those who iiad experi enced the increased expences in their own fa milies ' • that b . i nns the necessary cons eq u ence of the rise of every article of life since the estimate in Ur, there was an increase of from 40 to (0 per cent. in the price of every neee-. ary of life, and of all domestic expences Every body Mast therefore f..el an anxious desire to p:ovide for those accessary espences unavoidably incurred by the Royal Family; and it would be seen they were not more than the natural and pro gressive rise of every thing had occasioned. But the other increase of expences grew out of the ne cessity of the times ; out of the ordinary state of human affairs; and those political events which no human power could controul. I be only head of expense, on which any diminution had taken place, was that of pensions, because that was the only one in which a disereti..n could have been exercised.— In the estimate of 1117, the sum of 9%0001. was allotted for pensions; and those were now less by the sum of 10,0ioil. The whole of this was cer tainly a small sum to limit the Royal Bounty to t and lie should much rather encrease, than nartru it. H. )14 ever, in the pressure of the present timi be would nut propose any extension of that sea. . but 6: it at 92,0001. the same as fixed in 170 That would he lii,vool. snore than it now blood. 'IOC excess under the head of Forei g n Ministers, was 8,0001. ; and the only other, ?is which there was an increase beyond the estimate of 1787, related to the immediate expences of the Royal Family.— The sum of 58,0001. had at that time been granted to Her Maj?sty, to cover the expenses attending the female bratich:s of the Royal Family. To this sum he should now propose an increase. Parlia ment had several years fixed the sum of 60001. for each of the Princesses. Ile should new propose an addition of 4000. for each. The whole of this ad ditional sum then would be 20,0001. Who% the in creased expellees under these last-mentioned heads were carried to the account of the Civil List, they made the whole amount to 975,0001. The amount, according the est i mate, was 92 !MOM. having a deficiency of 54,0001. to be provided for. The addition then he should now propose to vote would be the sum of 60,0001. a year, besides the sum he had already stated for the discharge of the debt now existing. He then concluded with moving his first Resolution—"!'hat a suet not exceeding 60,0001. be added to Ilis Majesty's Civil List Re venue." Mr. BANKS said, that in delivering his senti ments on the present question, he did nut mean to cast the smallest reflation, either on the present Ad ministration or the last ; but it became the House to look with an eye of extreme jealousy in times like the present, whenever they were called tipna for a grant of the public money. Two years ago he had un derstood it to be intention of the then Admisistration, to fix the expenditure at a certain sum, and they had professed a determination to prevent a similar ac cumulation in future. lie was, however, sorry to observe, they had neglected and disregarded punc tuality in the payments of the different classes. In the course of the last sixteen years, ending in 1802, the debt was no more than 80,4001. ; hut in the two years and a half since that period, Cie average has more than trebled, being now t:e7,oonl. which lie supposed to he owing to an understood Parliamentary regulaiion, which had been departed from since 1802. Ile found fault with the obscurity of the different items in the account of sum? paid to foreign Ministers, which he had compared; and yet there was no account, that he could intelligibly make nut, of what these sums are charged under the head of extra extract' canaries, which be wa► afraid might tend as a cloak and cover to expences of a different kind. Ile then adverted to the very great increase which had taken place in the expences of the board of works t the average in the last two years ; he said, was 86,0001. a year. t le acknowledged the,ex pences of building were much incrietssed of late years, but still the governmen• ought to endeavour to put some limit to these expences, and nt.t suffer liens to go on to such an cry irmous extent as they had lately done. There was another article to which he must allude, and that was the payment of ministers at foreign courts on signing treaties and conventions, which was stated at 13,0001. He 'anew of no treaties or conventions that had been signed within the last two years, and wa.. therefore at a loss how this account coall be swelled oat sn much. The pensions to late minis ters at foreign courts were swelled, he said, from 92,0001. to 131,0rm1. which seemed also to be somewhat extraordinary. In the Secretary of ;tate's Office, there sv:.s also an increase of 77,0011. be yond what the expcnce was estimated at in the year 1786. It should be recolleded also, that one of these Secretaries was an office entirely new ; and the Government ought to consider, and ;t would be well for the House to do the same, whether, when the period of peace shall arrive, it may be necessary to continue the office of third Secretary of State, which was aCtuelly abolished by Mr. Burke's Bill, and has been since then revived. He then adverted to an article, which he hoped, he said, he should not have seen again, and that was an advance to one of the Princes. What he alluded to, was an advance to the Duke of Clarence of 70001. to be paid again by instalments, at 7501. a year. He objeCted to this mode of distributing the money belonging to the civil list, because so mudh being disposed of to-one person must fall with peculiar hardship on some person in another class, who, in all likelihood, would be obliged to go unpaid, for whatever was thus advanced out of proportion must be an injury to others in a different class; besides, lie looked on it as extremely wrong in another point of view ; be did not think it was proper that the First Lord of the Treasury should thus have the Princes of the Blood looking up to him for assistance. Since this money had been advanced, there should have been a year and a half paid of the instalments ; but in looking over the accounts on the table, there was no mention of any such having been made, and he had therefore a right to suppose no such had been made, and, indeed, he thought it was not much to he expeded. He thought, however, this mode of proceeding was trifling with the House and with the public. If it be necessary that the expences of these royal personages should be increased, he would recommend it to the Government to do it openly, and not in this kind of clandestine man ner. No less a sum than 18,0001. had thus been advanced to these Royal Personages, which he was very sorry for, as he thought it by no means right or proper. He observed also, that there was an advance of a similar nature to Major General Gardiner, out of his pension. The debt, er sum advanced was 20001. which was to be repaid by in stalments of 3001. a year. In this caw., also, there were several instalments due, and it did nut appear t►u any payment had been made. It appeared to him there was no limit whatever to the principle of these advances, and, as tar as the praQice goes, he thought it highlr injurious. He then took notice of another article on the accounts, which was a do ficienci of fees in the department of the Officers of the 1 reasury, which amounted to upwards of 13,0001. which was matter of surprise to him, and which. he thought, required explanation to chew how such deficiencies could really exist. These were observations which he thought it his duty to make as a Member of that House, siding for the h •notir as well as the interest of the country, and viewing the different items of the public expendi me with the jealous eye of a guardian (*the pub lic money. the advance to the Duke of Clarence was the only article to which he should make any positive objeetion. He could not, however, give his consent to any permanent provision, as an adli rain to the Civil List, till Ministers shall have t hen a :hat they were determined to make the estimates and the expenditure equal. In times like the pre sent, wLen the public burdweanhnds:ninlet sopourveoerycceztkiinealri: and every day becoming snore and more sn, b th e o e u n g l h ar t g it in a g y th er e y c in iv d i e l c L oro in, us what extent the pressure may come. The CHANCELLOR of dies EXCHEOLTR said, he had listened with the greatest attenzion, and with no small degree of saris anion, to what had Glen from his Hon. Friend, who had jest ' a t down, and who had certainly treated die subjedie a very accurate and parliamentary manner. H e would beg the attention of the Committee to -every few words he had to offer ia answer to som e o f the observations of his Hon. Friend. In stkh a cir cumstance as the present question, you must Jo nee of two things. If the I lati:e cats point out 'es means of administering the expenditure in time of war, it would, no doubt, be highly desirable; hut if that could not be done, it wonicare better to m eat it fairly at once, than to postpone it, and '6 1 ,4 suffer a large accumulation of debt to take place in the Civil List establishment; and he though: it would be very impolitic to think of saving 50 or 60,0001. a year, when it was well known how in,!elt the expence of the different articles of provisions, of all kinds, had increased, and would be a mis. placed economy to take any thing from thesplcn dour of the crown, which was one of the men essential parts of our glorious constitution at a ti;i ! like the present, when every gentleman must know, by only adverting to the increased expellees of his own private household, how very inadequate the same sum must be to defray the same expenditur e as was fixed so long ago as 1786. The "Luse would, he was certain, be the more inclined to i ncrease e he Civil List, when they called to mind the branches of the hereditary revenue, which had been given up by his present Majesty on his first coming to the throne. They would also recoiled, that His Ma jesty had now sat on the throne longer than almost any other sovereign had done before. That durirg the whole of that time the hereditary revenue hasibe tn growing up, and eke House should calculate what it would have amounted to. The House was now called upon to add 50 or 60,0001. a year, and must recolkel, that the hereditary revenues would have amounted to 11 or 1,500,0001. a-year, instead of 900,001. which is as the sum fixed for the civil list expendi ture. His Hon. Fliend, he said, had desired that every possible setisfedion should be given, that no increase should in future take place. What, be asked, had produced the excess ? Not a want of attention to the interests of the country, or to the principles of mconosny,but to a change in the circuit stteces of the times; far during the first six years aG tel she passing the Bill, the expenditure was kept eithin bounds, and it was not from the want of a sincere desire to keep to the Bill, but to circumstan• ces which could neither be foreseen or countersued, that any excess bad arisen. It the House would look seriously to the eubjed, they would see that ne preference had been given to any elms, except 'la first] second, and third, which is the Royal -Family; the Judges ; and the Foreign Ministers; which, evert one must see, are such as must be first attended to. He heartily joined his Hon Friend in the wish, that some mode could be devised to prevent the future is crease of the debt; but he thought it was imposible to say that this would be the fast sum that would he asked for; but it should not be se, without Par. liament being advised of it, and knowing from tine to time how it goes on. In short, he would assure the House, that every possible means would be adopted to prevent any future increase of the debt. He thought a clause mien be framed in the Bill, providing that an abstrad of the debt of the Civil List should be made out at certain periods of the year, and laid before the House, so that they would continually have the subject under their eye, and no consider. able increase could take place without their k:inw. ledge. The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceed. ed to take notice of what had fallen from his Hon. Friend relative to the advance made to the Dlike of Clarence, which, he said, came under the head of occasional payments. lie bagged the I louse to re coiled that the principle of occ.eaunal payments was recognised by Mr. Burke's Bill ; and surely, it there aries an occasion in which any of the Royal Family should find it necessary to require an advance, Fla Majesty may have it in his power to make it, and it may be paid again by instalments, as e: n. venience may suit, without the Ware reccieng any injary whatever. This, he would allow, should be done very sparingly ; but he thought in many instances, and within a moderate scale, it was extremely proper. He then adverted to the article under the head of extra extraordinaries, and allowed that these ought to be looked to with the utmost jealousy; but it must be obvious, with regard to foreign ministers, that they may be obliged to j incur expence s , w hi c h lib era li ty , an d even us tice, requires they should be left liable to. He had thus briefly observed upon such parts of his Honourable friend's speech, as he thought more particularly required notice, and assuied his Honourable friend and the House, that he had no objection to the production of any accounts' which Call give any further or better explanation 01 any point that may be doubtful in the mind of arif kn. Gent', man, because he wished to coavires the House avid the count, y, that this call en I:4 public money .vas the drat of real and mi.. , i able necessity. lie was therefore happy, flat this discussion had taken plisse, and very much obliged to his Lion. Fliend, for having breoghtit on, and for the ve r y acute an d j u di c i ous mann er at which he h a d t ouc h e d upon t h e severa l po i nt s to which he had referred, as doubtful or objedion ible. He allowed the e x pe nces o f t h e B oar d o f W o rks hal indeed been very great, but he believed no wore than what was ab so l ute ly necessar y, an d t hey had been greatly increased by the necessity of altering and repairing many parts of His Majesty's difkrera palaces, in order to accommodate and proside suitable apartments fur the different branches o: the Royal Family. Mr. BANK' explained. Mr. AI)DINGTON said, that after what been so ably stated by the Right Hon. Genthn.4l. It would be necessary for him to trouble the l our mitten with only a ver y f ew wor d s . 'The 40,0tt .- which had been alluded to, had beeit applied lie special purposes. He thought the House would let, the import a n ce of paying - liberally, Gentlemen ?' talents, family, and education, in foreign cFplornau c situations, in which the best and most essential acre rests of the country are so deeply concerned. d stamen scc °until] cu.*" sent thAt a boa ingoney an m . before that purpl bee.' mAJ steed. I) fie of C of i, 1 said els urge.. unay.udat whether Fl spleod Gentlerna ditional he a Matte vices ha InArer of Vive been t 11.: sum II rlfllstanci bcpe. Or. Li 'CAS ix pe-uli:ure s nr Inng periodins country. Sir FR List, as it propriety taxes in gi he com p mists abs dews. C it tents of Sir .10 Ba-onet i Iso tN least dui; an< • Mr. Fl whic't A". 3 .erera Mr. Dice report w: The Ti ordered t The I nlittee of The C gave r.oti duty on should b the Mem nutely, a formatint Mr.-A Holour.l' be tyrnefi The R ordered t The It to be eon L tcty I time, sac • Aitow ism., • Ban except It! ptiutost TEL In the Hens* of men atiot This brow interestin