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when out of it, he would maintain there was not in the Midi& dominions—not on the face of the earth, an individual whom he would place above the Irishman in the qualities of honesty and industry (hear); no human being could be more warm-he tried, more kindly disposed, or more sensible of benefits conferred. (Hear, hear.) Ile thought it material to give this testimony, for the purpose of proving that whatever may be the evils arising from the a ate of Ireland. they could not be attributed to any defect in the character of the Irishmen ; and Then Irishmen were considered in their armies and navy—when they were considered in the various branches of inclustry through which they were dispersed, there was not to be inutel a more valuable class. Olean) After bearing this merited testimony, he had no objection to enter into the discussion, and to enable him to state his i deas upon the subnet, it would be necessary ter him to consider Ireland, and draw sonic distinction between one of her provinces, Ulster, for instance, and the others, and from circumstances of tr ade and industry which were peculiar to that province, he felt himself warranted in asserting it ass in a state a growing prosperity. And he had no reason for not be lieving, that though this province might not be as advanced in advanced in prosperity and wealth as England, it was in a fair way of soon becoming so. The same statements he might be justified in making of the other parts of Ireland, with the exception of one, which included perhaps one-third of her pnpubuiou. Ilc made this statement, as he felt it necessary to compare one part of that country with the others. He did not wish to refer to the acts of Government, and the policy pursued by this country to Inland in former times. No good could result from this inquiry. Ile therefore did not wish it ; but, if he was compelled to make a reference of this description, he would not hesitate in saying. that the policy of England was most tyrannical and unjust. (Hearn And, from this policy of tyranny and injustice, when acted upon, more destructive cons?. quinces did not, in his opinion, ensue, than there followed from a system of narrow and selfish policy pursued by England towards the some country. But he would beg to express his doubts whether Ireland received greater evil and injury from the system of tyranny, oppression. and selfishness acted upon with regard to her, than she did a hen legislators came to apply principles for the purpose of diminishing her evils, and when influenced, no doubt, by a feel ing of benevolence, they attempted to apply to that country laws, customs, and institutions for which she was not prepareen As a primed the truth of his opinions, he would affimi that Saw. land was, even in the time of the present Royal Family, before the rebellion of 1745, in a much worse state than Ireland ; and if, at that period, English Ise, and Magistrates were given to that coun try, Scotland sould lint have reached its present state of pens perity. A certain mode of legislation VMS looked upon as appli cable to all—it was considered an universal good,—it was supposed good palky to extend the same principles to all. This wt. nut, in Ids :minion, genii policy. We should attend to particular wants, and to the particular circumstances of different countries. (hear.) This should be attended to in the ease of Ireland ; and as to the at tempts made to serve that country, there were never, in any reign, so many laws pawed for the purpose of conferring benehts unon that country. ca in that of the late king. A Noble Baron, who had unfortunately thought proper to absent himself from that House, bad delivered it as his opinion that greater benefits had never been conferred upon any country than had been bestowed by this coun ty upon Ireland. This gave rise to a different consideration 01'1 t'te motion before their Lordships ; fur when the motion was discussed, it was tit and just that the policy of the coon-, 1 try, and the extent of it to Ireland, should be known. Of this extent he rather thought the Noble Mover himself was not aware; and with retard to this view of the question, he would affirm that there was no country in the world which ha d done so much in the space of a few years, and had conferred such signal benefits upon a limb of her empire. This assertion lie would make, and by the truth of this assertion he was satisfied the Noble Lord's motion should stand or tall. In the mode of government the first question would be that of taxation. It was well known to their inntshipe that this country, after the difficulties imposed upon it by the conflict in which it was engaged, was not only taxed much higher than it could afford, but it was taxed upon the aver age much move than any country in Europe; and net in the midst of these difficulties the indulgence was carried so tar towards Ire land, that this country had relieved her of her debt, and taken it entirely on herself; and there was no country in Europe with which the comparison could be made, except Switzerland, which ass subject to lighter taxation than Ireland. The southern states or Italy orient also form another exception. England was therenre ten times mote highly taxed than Ireland, and live times, if her population be taken into consideration. Ireland was the only country in Euterpe that paid no direct taxes to the Government. In that country there were no direct taxes except tithes. There were, unfortunately, he thought, for the' country, no poor rates in Ireland. lie would repeat, there was no direct tax paid in Ireland, except for some local purpose or im provement; but there was none for a genteel purpose; and thus, he spewed, whilst Great Britain paid more than any country in Europe, 'rebind paid considerably less. Ile knew it would be ob jected to his argument, that Ireland payed little because she was net able to pay mote; and the heavy taxation of England was a proof of her proex-rity. This was nut the mode in Bodo lie heard other questions discussed in that House. The taeation of this country wan so heavy that it forced the laying on of protecting dudes, and when these Bills were discussed in that House, and in the country—the Corn Bill fur instance—it was always argued that the labour, and the price of industry in other countries, was low and cheap, and. this country should have the advantages thereof; and this t °artery required these protecting duties. By this state of the question he would judge Ireland. And what had been dune by this country ? Labour was in Ireland cheap—the price of industry was low, and yet had that country no restrictions imposed on her ; but she had free access to our markets, without being exposed to any of our protecting duties; while( France and the other awn tries on the Continent were subject to them. The taxes of Ireland werervduced one-half; British industry and capital flowed to that country, and the capital and industry of Ireland had tree and un restricted access to our markets. And after this fair and true statement, was he not justified in declaring teat no country in the world bad ever legislated so much for the advantage of another as Englard had for Ireland? lie would appeal to any candid man, anu ask if this were not a fair conclusion, acrd if, in the statute book latterly there were not evidence of the most liberal policy ? He would now come to another moot initaiit subject—religion; and he would say a few words. It was dif ficu lt to look to the state of Itched, without seeing it possessed great evils within itself, not con rectal with the polity of this country ; they were owing to some in ternal principles of its own. All these matters were, within the two or three last years, the ground of inquiry. Commissioners were sent to the country, and they had been the means of many fiscal improve w.ents. The Commissioners deserved the greatest credit, move espeseally an Lion. Friend .1 his, who was at the head of the Com mission. These Commissioners hail gotten rid of many fiscal ditlicultiot ; but the end of their labours could not yet be ascer tained ; and, fur this special reason, he would object to the motion, as it would perhaps be exciting ex cautions which it would not be to their power or cansistent with icy to realize. As to the sys ,, .... education, upon this sat policy to realize. As to the sya. nazi ci education, upon this su bject as much as the Legislation could effect was certainly done. Though the Legislature had mi rth-el their attention to the subject, it should not be supposed the attester was neglected or had failed of success. Ile was willing to admit the system pursued by Government hitherto was wrong. Education shotnel be communicated to all--to the Catholic as well as the Protestant ; it should be given to the country, not to a party. 'Phis principle was now acted upon ; the system was diffined ; it die no: include any particular persons ; it embraced alike Catholic zed Protestant : anti, as it was Lid down upon a quesnon of much leas itnpur.:ince, the Burial Bill, the present system of education would include all. The present system of schools was introduced itt the year 1817: in 1818 there were but II schools; in 1819, 65.; is 11th), f 33 • and, in 11121, there were 241. Ile would not weary their Lordships, but he would state there were at present 1,122. This skewed the progressive state of the scheme. Ile would /OW mention the number of applications for schools. The lac year, in the first quarter, there were applications fir 63; Oil tire se c ond there were applica tions tor 73; on the third fie 117; ore the fourth quarter for 142. Making a total of 395. These ap plications were not cot:tined to the Protestants; they came as well from Catholics. The latter women to have laid aside almost all their jealousies, and to have entered into the plan with seal. The Carhuhes made numerous applications. Many came from the counties of Limerick and Cork. There were in Munster 108 schools :leo they bad gnulually increased ; nor was this all—the Scrip tunes were used according to their own version, end they had school wedeln of their own choice. Noble Lords were not to expect in. stestaueous and magical effects from the system: improvement could not be effected as if by a magician's wand—they should wait: it was time alone that would produce satisfactory results. These were nut bis own statements—they were the statements of the re ports, which he wee of course bour.d to believe, and some of which he 'android for their Lerdships. [Here the Noble Lord read ex tracu from therepor:s of theCoonniestonersuf Education in Ireland. He read this rep ore or the purpose of showing that the system of edeention worked well, and wee pronucing die best effect. He knew, however, that a Commission was ordered, to inquire into the subject of education in Ireland ; and he was friendly to it ;—not alone that, but, if any thing more ctsukl be done, there was no as cringe which would not be made to follow it up. The next subject was therolice; and here he admitted that they were guilty in WOW cases or the most unjustifiable conduct. They were, however, brought to trial, and he hoped they would be puniihsd. The in itituuon, hosteler, was new, and abuses certainly were committed, which it was the object of ie Goveeninent to reniesly. The differ ence+, however, beeween Prutestante and Catholics, and the intlu (-nee of religion, was utitertunately manifested. Catholics and Protestants had a voice in the appointment of those constables, and ne trusted the lie was strong enough to see justice done between their. There were other teeies demanding attention, and particu larly that great topic of tithes, which would receive is full consi deration at a future period, and therefore he would not now fully enter into that question. Tithes here arid in Ireland depended on a different beds ; the sole division of property in Ireland was dif ferent from what it was here • but, a ft er all, the tithe fell on the property. (Hearn But, ab olish the tithe ONITIOSTOW, and the Lindland would have the benefit of it. Moral irritation was pre. duoid, cruelty was practised in the collection of tithes, but the grinding of the landlord was a: bad as that of the tithes upon the 'hi en peasant. For the advantage of the Church, something less than the :fur should be teken, in older to relieve the people. The itate of the Irish peasantry he admitted to be melancholy; but the whuole grievance at to the people was this, that their landlords: did no: assist them. Before the Irish people were improved, the endless subdivision of farms must be altered ; and so said Mr. Arthur knack, a gentleman well acquainted with the state of Ireland. The forty-shilling freeholders was a fearful piece of history, and deserving great attention ; but as to the subdivision of hems, no man could doubt its impulicy. Lend in Ireland was Is. at too high a price as compared with land in England ; and the increasing pooulivion of that country increased its other evils. Land ! red and taunt d.d not stand in a fair relation towards each other. Time peasantry of In land were in a condition unlike any ether .. ... . ... 'Amos he thought more good than evil 'resulted from the system prevailing in this country ; differing, as it did, from that prevail , tag in Ireland. Every man, however humble, felt he had here a home ; atid he was anxious to preserve it ; not so in the West I Indies—not so in Ireland ; the labouring Irishman had no home, I no rights to look to or defend. Ile did not mean to say much of the evil of absentees; but this lie would say, it operated roure or kis on the whole Irish community. Here we had no middle men; we knew no such thing-the evils of Ireland originated in, or rather perhaps continued, from that source. The middle man in Ireland would have his profit; he had it, and that to the loss of the poor. Politics.' economists were at vari ance as to the good of large or small farms, Lut all agreed that the poor must suffer, because they had no capital and no re sources. &aides, the withdrawing of capital produced moral evils, and evils beyond those which he contemplated at the period of the Union. Scotland afforded a striking example of the effects of her Union; and he now thought that no portion of the British dominions was more prosperous than the people of Scotland. With respect to Ireland, however, kr a specific object be brought forward, and he pledged hi mself to attend to it. The interests of the country as will as Ireland required it. Ireland war now in a situation different front every other country in the world. On the Continent sects were divided, but property prevailed with the prevailing sect; whereas in Ireland the landed and commercial party was Protestants while three-fourths of the population were Catholic. The practical benefit of emancipation would only do good to a few, but to the many, as a matter of concession, it might do good : but he believed, while Catholics and Protestants remained as they now were, what is cal!ed emancipation would rather tlo evil than promote any useful object. That, however, is a subject for further inquiry. Much was done for Ireland by the Government, and every particular branch of grievance would be attended to. The Government wished well to the Irish people; there was no sacrifice which would not be made for their immaivement ; and seeing no ground for the motion of the Noble lord, he felt it is duty to oppose it. The Marquis of LANSDOIVN observed, that lie wished to state the grounds of his vote on this important occesion. He did not think the measures adopted towards Ireland released their Lord ships front particularly attending to the state of Ireland. Ireland now demanded consideration ; her history always, since under Eng lish rule, WAS unhappy ; and she was now at last in that situation which left to the Government no other course but full and lair in quiry. Ireland was in a situation unlike that of any other country in Europe: the few and the many were opposed, and palliatives alone were hitherto applied to heal the bleeding wounds of that fli rted and misgoverned country. Ireland was not governed byordi nary laws, :out by the violation of all law and the Constitution of this country ; and yet that violence produced no good : on the con trary, it led to the perpetration of abuse on one hand, and of crime oo the other. Something, however, was done; inquiry was agreed to; but as to practical benefit, nothing was obtained. The Govern ment had hitherto acted by Ireland not as a friend or ally, but as if she were a stranger, and the people of Ireland telt it. Ireland was not ruled as a portion of this great country, but as a province ; not taxed certainly, because she could not pay taxes ; and not im proved, because it was impossible to effect it by that species of unnrovement granted by this Government. Ireland, it was said, hail received every boon front this country. Strange to say so; and yet to find, that Ireland could only be retained to this country by a large military force? Beyond all that was done, there was something in Ireland requiring review ; and !something which de manded more attention than was hitherto paid to Ireland. Some thing certainly was due for that country ; sonic generosity was ex tended to them ; but was it more than Ireland deserved--than the safety of tins country required ? Expediency alone was consulted, and Ireland had no particular thankfulness to offer. We gave no boon to Ireland by buying her corn. There is no pretence for saying that we dealt favourably to Ireland upon that subject. Countries growing that which they did not consume, would always send their articles to market et a cheaper rate than others dd . - krently situated; but it was only justice to Ireland to enable her interest to predominate, where, in the nature of things, it must have predominated. With respect to the taxation of Ireland, it was true that the Irish people did not pay as much as those of England, and our this reason, that they were the poorest people in Europe. Na tyranny could extract from a poor people that which they could not pay ; and he must say, that every effort was made in Ireland to collect the largest amount of revenue. Taxes were imposed to that excess, that the people could not pay them • taxes were then remitted ' • but only talk of generosity to Ireland ? Tyranny exhausted itself in the imposition and collection of taxes in Ireland; force could not reuse money where it did not exist, or was to be found ; yet because remitting those taxes, the Noble Lord now contended that such remission was an act of generosity ! It was an insult to common sense to to call such remisaions an act of generosity. It was scarcely an act of justice. The evils of Ireland were not of recent growth, and unfortunately were continued in the same way to the present day. Ireland was sacrificed to a few, and every one knowing the history of that unhappy country knew the fact. Under bad laws the Ca_ tholics increased and would increase, and why not improve the laws, it' it were only to give Protestantism fair play ? Oppression had done its worst in Ireland, and still the Catholtas were not ex terminated ; on the contrary, they flourished and increased the more. IVlty not now then try a different system ? Coercion failed, why nor try conciliation ? lie torture failed, why not try equal laws ? Until this were effected Ireland never could be friendly to the British Government. It was in the nature of things that men would spurn the powers that oppressed them, and resist the laws, what, in place of being their refuge, are to them a source of unmitigated tyranny. With respect to the composition of tithes., he was fully satisfied that some such measure was highly useful and necessary; and he hoped, in the result, that the Act of last year, though inconsistent with principles of justice in some instances, would still remove some of those evils, which must be removed be fore Ireland could be tranq uillised. An alteration however took place in tithes, and that of itself would remove irritation—an ob ject of the first importance to both countries. The previous cum mutation was not of any value to the poor, but merely to persons who had not before paid tithe ; and the result was, the infliction of a curse upon the population, and on the particular parish in which sautes had occurred which every man must deplore. Thecommutation eystem however was good, and he hoped to see it generally . extended. He would now enter at any length into the question of tithes; but he must say a word us to the administration of justice in Ireland. No doubt absenteeship from Ireland is a great evil; but there must be some cause for it. The Union pro Mato produced emigration; but over and above the number of persons residing out of Ireland front having business or interests elsewhere, there were many who left Ireland front other causes. It'llat could set the Irish land holden wandering from his own country ? Why, a variety of cir cumstances drove out many of the higher and middle classes to seek an asylum elsewhere. The causes of this absenteeship resulted from the state of the laws, when all were not protected, and from the operation of the Government, which did not impartially dis pense justice. There were other causes also, but these he had men. Coned predominated. With respect to middle-men, the Noble Earl did not seem to know much ; fur they were occasioned more by the poverty of the people than by the rapacity of the landlords. But to revert to the administration of justice in Ireland : he must first say, tlia: the present Government appeared anxious to enforce the laws, and he hoped a tins deterrnation would be persevered in to make them paramount, and thereby secure the affection and obedience of the people. The Judges in Ireland seemed disposed to do their duty and distribute justice. It would be invidious to select names; but those who knew Ireland, knew the pre-eminent talent, virtue. and merit of the Chief Justice of the King's Bench. That learned and amiable personage united all the social virtues, with all the public virtues, which could not only dignify and adorn this station, but also shed a lustre on mankind. Other Judges deserved praise, and lie willingly offered it to them. Havtng so far done justice to the Judges of Ireland, lie meant to say, that the auxiliary agents from the bar were calculated to give satistaetion to all the well-disposed persons in Ireland. In the interior appointments, however, there was not the same success, because, perhaps, there was a difficulty in finding out the proper per. sons. Buti it now so happens, that in some instances the very persona who provoked riot and committed murder were the police, who were since sentenced to transportation. The Noble Lord then adverted to the recent trial at the Queen's County Assizes, in which Mr. %Venice, the celebrated Irish Ilarrister, was engaged by a poor faintly, and that upon the ground that the poor in Ireland were excluded front protection, and could only have a fair chance of right from the employment of a person who had received their own inatruction. The poor in Ireland knew they had no law, and, in fact, they . were not altogether in the wrung. The inferior agents of the law in Belated were badly selected, perhaps because in that class of life proper persons could not be found • but still the people felt their situati on , an d every e ff ort should ' be made to render the administration of the law as perfect as it could be. In the county Of Roscommon, it was alleged that the police pro moted distureance, in order to profit of it, and in the northern counties it was notorious that Catholics were killed, without the chance of convicting filch murderer*. Persons there could not ex etcise their peaceful occupations; and he would not say the Juries of Cavan and elsewhere did not discharge their duty. Still he would say, that blood was spilt, and the persons spilling it were not and could not be convicted. All these circumstances justified the motion of his Noble Friend, and called Mr an inquiry into the public regulations of that unfortunate country. Resentment* were viably excited by the existing system : sons recollected the injuries done their fathers—relatiuns those to their relations,--and the system of Government perpetuated them. Such a system could not be too sum altered—for altered it must lie, to produce tranquil_ lity or safety. The Judges of Ireland appeared to do their duty ; and the late charge of Judge M'Clelland deserted every com mendation. All hostile processions should be put an end to, as one means of conciliation; and until the Orangemen were brought under the power of die law, happiness could not ' , exist in Ireland. The Noble Lord then read the charge of Judge M`Clelland, in which he wished to put down all =soca. But bow was that to be done? He (Marquis of ern) answered, by the Government putting down those so cieties which had recently triumphed over the law ; the Govern ment should take courage, and put those societies down. The, speeches made in this llouse anti the other House might do good ; hut to do essential and lasting good to Ireland, you must not con fine yourselves to your speeches, but to practical measures. The evil-':.indeed and the prejudiced in office should be removed, in or der to satisfy the Irish peasant that his in t erests were regarded. Let the Irish people find that they were to be protected, and you would no longer have those alternations of obedience and assassins. 'ion which milked their recent conduct. The worm, if' trodden on, would turn ; it was not in the nature of man to bear unlimiud pro scription and persecution. The Government of this country had been, and was, with all its improvements. a bad Government for Ireland. They feared to grapple with abuses, and those who com mitud the abuses put the Government at defiance. The magis tracy had fora long period been improperly selected; the inferior officer,, of the law stood in the same situation ; and how could their Lordships expect that the I rids peasantry would yield a ready obe dience to e system which, for all practical purposes, was to them but a curse ? Amend the laws, let diem be suited to let the people feel their protecting power; but is order let the administrators of the law in every degree be fairly and impartially sel e cted. I t was i n v ain to talk of the abstract excellence of the law, while its practical Effect led to the belief that it was no source of protection to the poor. It was not enough that the laws were good, but it was absolutely necessary that they should be impartially admioistered. The first great reforin must begin them —the great source of dissatisfaction would be thereby narrows: ; and every man who knew Ireland, and the character of the Irish people, would admit that no people on the face of the earth were more grateful for any kindness shorn to them. JllStice, in the present case, demanded dila charige for the Irish people. Let them find the law their safety, and they would obey it—let them find the Alegistrates upright, and dealing even justix, and their authority would be obeyed. Let no party triumph aver the law, and place no man in office, who, fir party purposes, felt that he could with tarty violate it. Let the Augean stable of corruption be cleansed, if it were only partially ; let the foun tain of justice flow purely and uninterruptedly. Let the su bordinate officers of justice in Ireland be properly chosen, and much of the heart-burninga resulting from past 'Macon. duet on their parts would be forgotten by the Irish people. It must occur to their lordships, that one of the most important considerations was, to shew that Juries in Ireland were impar:ially composed ; however just a verdict of acquittal might be, there was no interest or so deep a nature belonging to that country as that attaching to the impanelling of their Juries. lie was then unwd. ling to detain their Lordships by arguments at any length, but he was still desirous of offering some observations on the education of the lower classes of the Irish people. As the Noble Earl had stated, 'it was high time to consider this subject fully. He could not accede to the suggestion of his Noble Friend, which recommended the esta blishment of a Committee of Inquiry. He was not disposed to r speak disrespectfully of those Commissions, but there had been so I many that he wished to see some of their recommendations acted on. Hitherto commission had followed commission, inquiry had followed inquiry, and yet no benefit had been derived from the la bours of the Commissioners; and, in his opinion, it was not de sirable to establish any more commissions, until the suggestions of the Commissioners, contained in the Reports on the state of Ire . land, had been enforced. Ile would not go back so far as the adminis tration of the Duke of Rutland, but he would continence with the year 18116. Ile held in his hand the lath Report of the Commis , stoners instituted in that year, all of whom were eminently quali. fled to discharge the trusts reposed in them. He begged to ask what had been done ? Literally oohing. The Act of the 46th , of the King, which had produced those 11 reports, was followed by . the rail of the King, which produced nine more. He would again ask what had been dune? Certainly there was most valuable in ' formation contained in those reports, and on which it was the bounden duty of Government to act before they proceeded to este blish any fresh commisaions. The recommendation contained in those reports, it should be recollected, emanated from the most able and upright characters. Yet, after all, the Noble Earl ad ' mitted that no progress had been made in educating the people of Ireland. Their Lordships were bound to come to a decision as to the manner in which they ought now to proceed. They were about to pass a Burial Bill, which he did not think calculated to select ' much good, and he thought that it would be better policy to apply, ••• requiceent is puce" to the living than the dead. The best mode, in his opinion, of effecting this, was by educating the children of both persuasions together, as he felt convinced that when children were united in infancy, and drank, as it were, at the same fountain, they would not in after lite become a prey to those ill feelings and animosities which unfortunately at present afflicted the society of that country. The Legislature ought to endow ('a tholic schools, as it was certain that an educates' population was preferable to an uneducated one. The Noble Earl had said that he would admit of no education of which the Scriptures did not form a part ; but there was no desire to exclude the Scriptures, and the conduct of the Church of England plainly spewed that they considered the Scriptures as dangerous in the hands of the common people, without note or comment. The Catholic clergy had the same objections, and they were fairly entitled to the enjoyment of them. The fourteenth report, to which he had so much alluded, contained the most valuable inhwination, and was signed by some of the must eminent Prelates of the Established Church. It recommended that a selection might be made of some of the most important parts of Scripture, which should not be lia ble to objection, which might be read in their schools. This re. port was printed in 1821, and he desired to know whether such a selection had been made, or even thought of ? Before they esta blished any more expensive commissions, he thought they had bet ter look to the reports already on their Lordships table. He was aware that the opinions of the Catholic hierarchy had been taken as to whether they had any objection to the proposed plan, and they had declared that they had nut. Such a system would be beneficial in more points titan one, fur it hail been averred that the Catholic clergy were hostile to the education of the peasantry. Such was not the fact, for in all cases the schools had net with the support and concurrence of the Catholic priesthood. But were it other wise, such a plan would bring it to the test; and it' there were any who wished ill to the Catholic clergy, and were of that opinion, they ought to support the recommendations of the Commissioners. If there was one quality more inherent than another iii the Irish people, it was their desire to seek information, and an anxiety to grasp at knowledge as they would gr as p at te waters of life • and if it could be shown that the Catholic clergy were averse to the education of the lower classes, a decisive blow would be struck against them. He hoped the Noble Earl would relinquish his idea of a Commission, as he thought • little labour would not be thrown away in examining the Reports already on their i Lordships' table. The Noble Earl had said something on the ; peculiar manners of the country. Whether the law proceeded from the manners, or the manners from the law, there was an , I anomaly in Ireland which would present itself continually, with most unpleasant consequences, until some lasting foundations were laid for its removal. Ile had now touched on all the sub jects that he had felt it his duty to notice; and as the motion 0( his Noble Friend only called on the House to watch the opera ' don of the laws it had already passed; and to see what effect had been produced by them, he concluded by giving it his entire con- CllftenCe. Lord LIMERICK agreed with what hail fallen from the Noble Lord at the head of the Treasury as to the benefits that Ireland would derive from an exemption of taxation, at the same time that he lamented that that exemption was forced on the Govern ment by circumstances. He conceived that the Noble Earl was misinformed when he attributed the distress of Ireland to the non-existence of poor rates, as the population would be converted into aix millions of beggars, if they were told that they had a right to be supported by their neighbours; they would then do nothing but live in a state of perpetual idleness. The Noble Lord ad mitted that the question of employment was a most important one, and lie was of opinion that if it could be introduced it would operate to the destruction of many of the existing evils. lie con cluded by opposing the motion. The Marquis tat DOWNSHIRE strongly impressed on their Lordships tile necessity of inquiring into the state of Ireland. The great evil that afflicted that unhappy country, was the distance at which the landed proprietors were placed from their poor tenants ; hence had arisen the nderstanding that existed between the higher and lower classes ; and religion had now dept in to increase that misunderstanding. The great body of the Irish population was Roman Catholic, who had not received equal advantages in point of education with their Protestant tellow-countrynten ; but he hoped that these differences would speedily be put an end to ; much ill feeling certainly had subsisted between the two parties, which he trusted would soon subside, In the north of Ireland, there was no necessity for a police establishment ; nor did he think that the Insurrection Act was required in the south. The mischief of it was, that when once established, it was attended by an ap. pointntent to offices which the holders were not desirous of relin quishing, and therefore had an interest in keeping it in full vigour. lie was glad to see that a feeling in favour of that country had been roused, and he trusted that it would induce capitalists to go over there, aim turn to advantage the numerous benefits that nature had lavished oat that country. land CAItBEIIT begged to observe, that all the officers ap pointed under the Constabulary Act had been uniformly correct in their conduct. The subject of education had engaged the attention of the Irish Government of Ireland for sonic time past, and it was making its way notwithstanding all opposition. Kith respect to what had been said on the subject of the Scriptures, he hoped he should never see a British Parliament sanctioning a system of edu cation from which the study of the Scriptures should be excluded. He trusted that by perseverance in the measures which Government. had acted on the country would be greatly benefited ; and he would ' nut wish to see those benefits thwarted by the adoption of the reso lution now proposed to them. Lord RODEN was happy to hear that there was a prospect of Ireland's emerging from the state of degradation and ignorance in which it was at present plunged. Ile felt nu inconsiderable alarm when he heard hie Noble Fnend (Lord Darnley) give notice of his , motion ; but it had completely subsided while he listened to the calm and dispassionate manner in which he had introduced it, as it was calculated to bestow a benefit on the country, by enabling Noble Lords to give their opinion as to the state of it. Without entering into the question of Catholic Emancipation, he would re serve what he had to say on that subject until it should be brought forward, as he supposed it would, in an isolated shape. The charges which had been matte against the Government were false, the evils arose from the indolence of die people and from their ignorance of the sacred truths of God's word. Whether he was believed or not, it was his duty to state what he knew to be the fact. He repeated, that the evils arose front an ignorance of the law of God, and front the penalty attaching to a breach of it. There was no country in the world vier: the inhabitants were so much under the influence of spiritual thraldom. He spoke from experience when he said, that when a knowledge of the Scrip tures was diffused, and education had been given to the lower classes, they were obedient and happy. Ile hail lived nitich in Ireland, and could say of his own knowledge, that all classes, both Catholic and Protestnit, were eager for instruction. He referred confidently to the Reixots that had been so touch alluded to, to corroborate what he had said, with regard to their anxiety for their education. The Noble hard here entered into a detail of the various charitable schools established for the education of the lower Irish classes, from which it appeared that there were attached to them :119,3)f; scholars. of which number 164,74 n were Roman Catholics. The Noble Lord continued by haying, that the great object of the reformation should not be overlooked. Ile thought it of Importance that the spirit of Popery should be opposted by all fair arguments. With regsrd to the Police Bill, he observed, that it was the best measure that had ever been proposed for securing the tranquillity of Ireland; and he thought that both Ribbonmen and Orangemen should be put down, as the celebration of their triumphs were generally attended with bloodshed. He concluded by giving his dissent to the 'no tion. The Marquis of LA NSDOWN explainetL hoed CLIEDEN hoped that education may spread throughout Ireland. Ile had heard the Noble Earl (herd Roden) generally with great pleasure, but he would ask that Noble Lord it it were fair to encourage proselytism or not iu Ireland ? (Hear, hear.) For his pan he thought proselytism was at variance with the true spirit of Christianity. It was natural that the Catholic clergy were op posed to proselytism, for the principle of forced conversion was the veryessence of the penal code which su severely oppressed this body. it wu Only when the Catholic clergy saw educational accompanied with an attempt at unfair and forced conversion, that they were found opposed to it. There were two churrhen in Ireland, of which one hail the flick the other the revenue. (Hear, and a laugh.) Until Ireland be emancipated it was in vain to hone to pacify Ire. land. This was promised at the ('nine and ought to be fulfilled. Until a perfect equality were established between Catholics and Protestants, he could hepe for no substa n tial benefit to Ireland. The motion of his Noble Friend could nu, otherwise be attended with any beneficial effect. or be productive ofany good, except good speaking, of which they had beard much in the course of the even ing. (A laugh.) Lord CA RN A !WON adverted to the carious remedies proposed for the relief of Ireland. One Noble Lord promoted to bless Ire land with the poor rates as a piton-ea; another Noble Lord proposal a totally different 'endear relief ; and, thirdly, a Noble Earl (Lord Roden) proposed his proactes—the conversion of tux million people froin the faith to which they have been long and stedfastly attached. (Hear. hear.) These remedies were not, in his mind, available to the amelioration of Ireland. The measures adopted by his Majesty's Ministers were also unavailing and ina.lequate to the improvement of the situation of the people there. The Noble Lard then adverted to the invasion or the treaty of Limerick as a futile source and cause of discontent, and contended, that emancipation was a necessary mealtime to restore tranquillity to Ireland, The Noble Earl at the head of the Treasury seemed to think that either of two measures net.' take place ;—either the people of Ireland must be induced to adandon the errors of Popery, or the proprietors of land to embrace them. Ile (Lord Carnarvon) did not contem plate the occurrence of either of these causes, but without their occurrence many of the evils of that country might be relieved and mitigated. Ile filly concurred with the Noble Earl in the enea. miastic terms in which lie had spoken of the people of Ireland : a more noble, generous, and enterprising people, if well governed, he believed dud not exist, but the people of Ireland had almost only known us by our persecutions. A different course of policy must be resorted to, to make them happy. He reg►etted to say, that what ever boons Ireland obtained were given when danger was at hand : but never did a nobler or better principle actuate us in any of the benefits that England bestowed on that unfortunate country. The state of Europe was, at present, one that ought to induce this coun try to conciliate, by every means in its power, the affections of Ire land. With her affections on our side, we might defy the utmost efforts of all the powers of Earope, should they at any period be leagued against es ; and it was not now known but that the day may not be far distant when a state of things would arise which would require us to husband all our means, and cherish all our re. sources. But he would wish it better feeling than that of fear to influence them in their conduct towsnls Ireland, and that they i would attend to her improvement by a consideration of those ties of I close connexion by which her interests were inseparably united with our own, t licsr, hear.) . _ _ The Earful . OAR NLEY rose to reply. After the arguments which had been so ably advanced by Noble Lordson his side of the House, and the time he had already occupied, he felt it unnecessary to trespass at any length on their attention at that advanced period of the night. He could not forbear, however, from adverting to the plan of pmselytism which seemed to have the sanction of the Noble Earl (Lord Roden). in order to assure him that that plan was impracticable, and that other measures he proposed, were equally ill calculated and ineffective to produce that amelioration of the condition of the people which he believed the Noble Lord was sincerely desirous of effecting. As to the assertion which had been made is the course of that night's debate, that although the popu. lation of Ireland was in a proportion of forty.nine Catholics to one Protestant as to nuinbn, hut taking property as the standard of estimation, that the proportion would be fifty Protestants to one Catholic--this was not the case; he could speak particularly of one county, that of .Meath, where Catholics possessed very consi derable property in land. The proportion even at this standard was not, he would venture to say, gnierally even ten to one. The investigation was one which he hoped the House would feel itself bound to enter into, after what they had heard in favour of it ; if not, the day was fast approaching when the growing evils of Ire land would render it necessary and imperative upon them to attend to the promotion of her interests, and the relief of her distresses. The House then divided— Contents fir the motion Not-contents Majority against it Proxies were not tendered on either side. . 17 . The House then adjourned at Twelve o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSDAY, Aran. 8. Mr. C. WILSON brought in a Bill for amending the pauper laws relative to lunatics—Read a first time. NEORO Mr. SEYMOUR presented a petition, praying for the abolition of negro slavery. Similar petitions were presented by Lord STANLEY, from Warrington, in the county of Lancaster ; by Mr. KIRWAN, from the inhabitants of Stanmer, in the county of . Cumberland ; and by Sir T. BARING, from Chippenvichet, in Devonshire. The petitions were ordered to lie on the table and be printed. COMBINATION LAWS. Mr. P. MOORBpresented petitionsfr;; Hythe and other places, praying for a repeal of the combination laws. Similar petitions were presented by Mr. T. Ectts, from the work. log bncklayers of the city of Dublin; and by Mr. Hume, front the incorporated trades of the town of Aberdeen ; another from the weavers of Manchester ; and another from the flax-dressers of the town of Aberdeen. Referred to the Artisans' Committee. COUNTY COURTS BILL Mr. LAM BTo preen petition We; the merchants of Darlington, in favour of the County Courts Bill—Laid on the table. General GASCOVNE presented a petition from Liverpool, against the County Courts DilL ..-...._ . 'Lord ALTHORP said, that the petition was signed principally by persons connected with the law. The petition was laid on the table. On the motion of Lord ALTIIORP, the House resolved itself into a Committee on the County Courts BilL The Bill was read, the House resumed, and the Report was or dered to be taken into consideration on Alondar next. ST. CATHERINE'S DOCKS. Mr. DENISON presented a petition from — the Trustees of the Smithfield Roods against the budding of the St. Catherine's Docks. —Laid on the table. SHEPHERDS' DO(; t. Dlr. COURTENXVpresentecia petition from graziers and others in the county of Dumfries, praying for a repeal of the tax on shepherds' dogs.—Laid on 'he THE PRESs IN INDIA. Mr. LA M on Tuesday, the 25th of May, he should bring forward his motion relative to the public press in India. NEW CHURCHES. 3lr. 0. BENNET presented a petition from the inhabitants of Newtown and Ilailesworth, against the building of new churches. 31r. PII I Mil PS presented similar petitions from the town of Reddish and another place in the county of Lancaster. Laid on the table. LONO WOOL. `, 31r. Ki:(11. presented a petition from the carpet-manu facturers of Market Harborough, against the exportation of long wool.—Laid on the table. Mr. POVNTZ presented a petition from occupiers of land in Chichester, against the repeal of the duties on foreign wool. The petitioners stated that agriculture was by no means in a flourishing condition ; and that if the tax was continued on foreign wool, and a relief from stone of the assessed taxes, it would add greatly to the comforts of the country and be most gratefully received.—Laid oa the table. ASSESSED TAXES. Mr. PY:11 presented a petition frau Leighton-Buzzard, praying for a repeal of the window taz.—Laid on the table. MANCHESTER GAS BILL Mr. CURTLIS, after having requested the reading of the reso lution of the House relative to the signing of petitions, rose to pro pose that the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee on the 31anchester Oas 11111 he laid before the House. lie alluded to a debate which had taken place on a former evening, and to the ac cusation which had been made before the Committee again a soli citor, for having surreptitiously procured the signatures to a petition from the town of 3lancheater un the subject of the Has Hill. He ( Mr. Curteis) said he had a right to call for an account of what took place on the occasion ; he had a copy of the minutes in his pocket, and the statement which had been inside was, that a person had been employed to sign NO names to the Mane'leverpetition. Lord ST.INLEY could not conceive any reason for agreeing in the request of the lion. !limner. He (Lord Stanley) as Chairman of tne Committee alluded to, should be the last person to object to having the minutes laid betbre the !louse, if any good reasons were advanced in favour of it. The lion. Member was completely wrong in stating that the paper he had read was a copy of the minutes ; but how he procured the information contained in it, he (Lord Stanley) did not know. The evidence which had been taken in the Committee might have been taken in a Court of Law. Mr. iI'ILBRAIIA3I agreed that the practice of one person sig..ing inure than one name to a petition was very much to he condemned ; at the same time. he believed it to be not unusual in large towns. He thought the agents for those who presented peti. tions to the House for bringing us a BA should be accountable for such acts. Mr. GRENFELL said a few words. Mr. 11. SC.MNEK said, that if the matter were inquired into, and the person who had been charged with signing so many names to the petition were really guilty, he ought not only to be brought to the bar of the House, but also sent to Newgate. Ile (Mr. H. Sumner) thought that the Han. Member (Mr. Curteis) would have had a great many more votes, if it were not apprehended that it was intended to review the subject of the Manchester Gas Bill, against which there seemed to be a very general feeling. Mr. W. PEEL said, it was very questionable whether the mi nutes should be laid before the House, because it might be the means of sending four or five persons to Newgate instead of one. Mr. PELHAM made a few observations (we understood) in op position to the motion of the lion. Member for Sussex. Mr. PH I lAA PS suid, that the case might he similar to one which he knew of a poor Irishman, who thought he was doing service, and had no idea of the consequences which might arise. The motion was then negatived without a division. IRISH rETr n . sEssioxs• r. SPRING RICE observed, that in Ireland Petty Sessions had been recently introduced, to the great service of the country, and the erecSit of the Magistrates. The Bill he was about to pre sent was for the purpose of giving greater facility to their endea vours. Ills object was to aseeriain what were the tees, and for the better arrangement of them. Ile also wished that a Court_ House should be procuriAl for the purpose, which would power fully assist their objects; and also that a register of their proceed ings be regularly kept. Ile concluded by asking leave to ..... • •la •;” •FI aCA,SII. ‘aaog, true spirt •... vu ji ca, 7aaw t ascerutir!_leiliii werecne tees, and for the ►honourable " .I ' . I his . thong P • ' 'foe peasantry w"nl;y . ".:i I; . ( . l;n7i . ;;Lre - in -.. a•;;;Cii . io - n - unITIC;;;y - other dience system which. . for s a . p roe m_ purposes, waa to them proselyti sm as at variance with the nge lICII o f hem. lie also wished t h at • Court- fecdy heard. prople in t h e world . ( Cries of %. llear, bear.") They were, how- no blewang , but a curse Amend the laws, let them be suited to i of Christ ianity. It was natural that the Catholic clergy were op-, house should be proeurcd for the purpose, which would p ower . i n th e eery cn le bound to take the good with die bad ; to look at slavery as • the people, let the people feel their protecting p ower b ut i n or d er pa c ed to proselytism, for the principle of forced conversion was the , fully assist their objects ; and also that a register of their proceed.. from making tristvd, whether in one place or anuth;:t. After all his eapc- to do that, let the administrator of the Lew in every degree be very essence of the penal code which so severely oppressed this body. ings ah.seld be 11;ularly kept. lie concluded by asking leave to which they de • bring in a Bill far regulating the bolding of Petty Sessior.s, a:4l the recovery of small debts. After a few words from Mr. ELLIS, I^ave was granted. .Mr. S. RICE moved for the appoinhileat or a special Corn. mince on the local taxation of Dublin, and to report their observe. bons thereon to the }louse. The several petitions on the subject of . Itioeal Taxation o f D u b_ tin were referred to this Coutattutee, with h was then apptorad, conaistit4 of nearly the same Members as served the former Um, maitre tru the ball/4! subject. %1' EST IIC 1)1ES. mr. HUME moved for a return of the number of slates in our West Indi a colonies ; distinguishing dime who were over from those under 211 years of age; and also those slaves who, by escheat or otherwise, had been soil alr. 11C.►113 made a similar motion relative to the Island of Berbice. The object of this latter motion was, that if it should ap pear that the slave% of this island at present were a burden to the public, they should have their freedom rather than continue so any lorwer, provided that freedom was not inconsistent with the peace arllsatily of the other inhabitants of the island. The ArfOKNEV-tiENERAL asked permission to bring in Bad to amend the Act relative to the British Museum—Leave granted. Mr. GOULBURN asked for lea►e to being in a Bill for drain. ing and improving the bogs of Ireland. lie al,o obtained kate to amend a Bill of Last Session, relati►e to the holding of Seriocs• Courts in Ireland. The lion. Member also obtained permission to bring in two other Bills; one to amend the Civil Bill Act • die other for certain regulations and reductions in the Police establish. meats of Ireland. l'St'RY LAWS. On the motion of SergeXntf:lNSlOl4 7 , that the House resolve itself into a Committee 011 the I Laws, Mr. B. COOPER said be had heard no argument in favour of the Hill, which was so satisfactory as to induce him to agree to the proposed measure. The first was, that thew: laws were infringed upon ; but the infraction of a law was not a sufficient reason fee its repeal. The Hon. Member proceeded to refute the other lege., menus which bad been advanced in favour of this Bill, and con. eluded by moving, that this Bill be read again this day six months. Mr. DAVENPORT considered the report which had been fur. Milled to the House deserved only to be called the skeleton of a report, then compared with the magnitude of the subject. The pre. sent Bill would, in his opinion, operate injuriously to the revenue and interests of commerce. This Bill would also tend to disgrace a very respectable body of men who were at present the pride and ornament of the country, namely, the English merchants, who, if this Bill were permitml to pass, would beanie dealers in money instead of dealers in merchandise. (Hear, hear.) He implored Ministers not to alter that system of laws on this subject which cur ancestors had established. Mr. L. FOSTER reminded the 11011/W that these laws, as they at present stood, had continued for three hundred years, under which a greater influx of capital had flowed into this country than into any other nation. The measure would operate with peculiar severity and oppression on the landed proprietary of Ireland. Tn. tides to landed property in Ireland were extremely complicated, and it was an extremely difficult matter to chew a clear title to the several estates Ot gentlemen there. His great practical objection to this measure was, that under such circumstances the creditor un der the present Bid would impose unjust and intolerable terms on debtors in the loans a hich they would contract with them. Indeed he apprehended if the present Bill were to pass, many who now paid 6 per cent. would be compelled to pay 10 per cent. or upwards, merely front the di ffi culty of proving their titles. On this g m.' he would oppose the Speaker's leaving the Chair. If this Bill were now to pass, he would at least endeavour to preserve its consistency, by moving that those antecedent acts, which Wen before illegal, but which this Bill would go to legalize should, after the passing of this Bill, be declared to be legal. Ile WAS induced to offer these observations from a feeling of the in jurious; tendency and eflect which this measure would hare au the interests of Ireland. Mr. ROBERTSON was surprised that none of the responsible Ministers of the Crown were in their places, on the discussion of so important a subject. In his opinion this measure was fraught with the greatest mischief to the interests of the country. The opinions of Mr. A. Smith were quoted in s uppo r t of thi s Bill, but the mo dern theories which were formed by 31r. Ricardo and others were founded in a misconception of the real principles of Mr. Adam Smith. Money could not be bought and sold like other common. dines ; money was always of the mine value. A sovereign was worth twenty shillings here and at Manchester, but a bale of cot ton was not of the same value here and there. The Honourable Member complained that the persons examined before the Com mitta on these laws were composed of lawyers, merchants, and brokers. This was the very class of !arsons whom these laws were enacted to curb and restrain. The Bill ought to be argued on prin. ciples of experience, and not of mere theory. Of the practice and expaience of other countries he would refer to Sir J. Malcolm's Cott, al India ; there the advancanent made by bankers partakes less of a low than of a subscription, of which the lenders paths cipate in the interest and profit. This practice had become so in jurious, that supervisors were sent out to inspect and correct the practice. He would refer next to home—not to Rome in ha downfall and degradation, but to the proudest period of her free. ism. The great bane and misery she sustained flowed from those practices of usury, which lie was desirous of averting from this country. The Senwe was often appealed to—sometimes for the cancelling those debts—soinetinies for the suspension of payments ; and they even were wont to refuse to meet the enemy, who ap.. proached to the gates of the city, unless the Senate complied with their requests. Thus a perpetual struggle was the consequence of these usurious practices. Even Clear, when he returned victori ous from Spain, had to encounter the inquietude and discontent that arose from the extent to which &baneful system of usury pre. railed. Money had always too much influence in this country. irith these views he should certainly oppose the measure. Sir H. PA KNELL observed, that the l i on. Member who had spoken last had laid down sonic very singular doctrines, not merely opon the Usury Laws, but upon political economy generally. The Hon. Member had not confined himself to the qneation : he had wandered to India in varch of elucidations, and China was pecu liarly delightful to him. Hut he (Sir H. Parnell) objected to being sent to India (is laugh) for principles of political economy. The Hon. Member had overlooked the nature of the interest of money, and had referred, with the lion. Member fur Louth (Mr. L. Foster), to the long experience we had of these laws ; but if they hod been lernicious, with respect to the best interests of the country', the ength of their existence should he no argument in their favour. The Hon. !Wernher for Louth had stated that the passing of this law would be ruinous in Ireland : he (Si r H. Parnell) did not be. lieve the general embarrassment of the country justified the use- Lion. There was not prodigality amongst the proprieton of estates in that country to justify the position for which the Hon. Member for Louth contended. lie thought the proposed measure promised great benefit, and he should therefore give it his support. Mr. CU RW'EN observed, that as it was desirable to assimnste the law to the practice, end as at present juries found directly the reverse of the law, he should support this measure. Mr. SYKES commenced with remarking, that the Hon. Menu ber for Grampound ( Mr. Robertson) had traversed over the shade habitable world; he had travelled through the regions of the tar. restrial world, and had almost touched upon the confines of the celestial. Ile hod discovt red that alr. Ricardo and Mr. Bentham were utterly unacquainted with this subject, and it had been re served for him alone to make new discoveries, and to point out the ; truth upon this subject. Not one lion. Member had contended for the justice of the niaaaure, of the law as it now stood. But the I law was as impolitic as it was unjust ; it was liable to abuse; an annuity liChellie destroyed and vitiated the etreet of the law. This ruinous system of annuities had brought many a gentleman of con siderable fortute to irretrievable and arreinediable misery. He was surprised at the infatuation of country gentlemen, who thought that the repeal of the law would prove injurious to their interests, They were just in the condition described by the Roman poet. ignorant of the real benefits which would How to them from this repeal— " Fortunati nemum sua si tona norint." I The Hon. Member for Grampound had said, that money could not be bought. Where did he learn that doctrine? Was it from the virtuous Brater, or was It furnished from time stores of some philo sopher of Central India? Hear.) If the Hon. Member was a trader, he bougnt money every day. (Hear.) tie (Mr. Sykes) wished to know what charm there was in the number 5, and how was it that it was limited, the rate of interest, to 5 ? He remem bered that long since—the lion. Member fur Gram and would not like it the worse for its antiquity—in the reign of Queen Eliza beth,a gentleman of the name of Wilson—he had no doubt a for mer Member for Granipound (a laugh), had contended that all interest upon money was a damnable heresy, and should be pu nished with death. Now, in this there was something like prin ciple, but he really could see no principle in the mouthings of those who opposed the repeal, and yet permitted interest to be taken on money. He should, from a perfect conviction of its beneficial ten dency, support the measure. A HT denied that the law, u it now existed, had been prod... cure of the slightest injury. He knew that many grave arguments had been used upon this subject, yet he felt hunalf in the condition of a celebrated personage, who was frequently alluded to by 31r. Addison, in contest with Sir Amdres Frerpoit, in the Spectator, and who constantly observed to the worthy liaronet, • that much might be said on both sides." lie did not mean however to tirUow the lion. Member who spoke last, through al his arguments. That lion. Member had asked if any one dee fended these laws upon th e i r j ust i ce . There was a question of e.- pediency as well as justice ; and it was well known that when money got into the hands of a fe w , an d t h at was t h e nsturr e f I money, it had at all times been productive o f ev il s to S tate s. It ' wasso stated b . , Tacitits, and he might be considered a pedant tor citing such an authority. He was tar from being a dogwatist, be was merely a sceptic on thi s subject. lie could not presume to set bounds to the sentiment and f ee li ng o f money-lenders. It was probable their liberality would be bouneless, but he did not choose to confide to them. %VIIy should the lion. Member, who had brought forward this measure, hurry it on with such suviciaas iwteipitancy ? Why not adopt his own motto, and go on slow with this measure ? (A laugh.) With these remarks he should feel it his duty to oppose the measure. Mr. PHILLIPS said that it was assumed by the opponents cf the proposed measure, that the usury laws were beneficial to the landed interest lie would, for the sake of argument, admit they were, but was that a reason for continuing them? bat he was arguing upon an admission which he fed no right to make. The lion. and Learned Gent. had objected to the Report. By whom was the evidences furnished ? Not by those who could be supposed to have any interest in the question, Conveyancers and lare.. agents were amongst those who spoke of the pernicious conse quences of the present law. Mr. ATWI. H )I) rose, but from the situation occupied by the Honourable Member (under the gallery), his remark* were tomer reedy heard. lie objected to the interference which was implied in the very enactment of these laws. Two persons were prohibited front making a bargain, because money was the commodity in width they dealt, and the law atrorded nut to them an equal Fr:- 41 . 1 1 I'll lio lie ea At. *ha he ovy ed.