The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1809-02-01 00:00:00

ri IS r be bove o s i s else said, he understood, that the enthusiasm of that country was excited by Eng land, and had suf fered from the selection we had made for it. Ile would appeal to them, whether, of the forty or fifty proclamations issued from different parts of that country, there were three which did not mention Ferdinand VII. as the object of their choice. He would may nothing upon the absurdity of supposing England to have excited a general spirit of en thusiasm through the Spanish nation ; but he would ask whether it was the business of Government to recornrneud the renovation of the old stuck of Kings ? He hoped that we never would adopt, or re coetinenei to the adoption of others, that part of the d.• • ti•ines of the French Revolution, which had co tailed misery upon every country to which they had found their way. He could not think it a wise employment fur this Government to be judging of the institutions: and intermeddling with the affairs, of the Spanish people. We took gpain as we found her, and did not take advantage of her misfor tunes to model them into an experiment. (Hear ! /tear In mentioning the Governme:it of Fer thrialid the Seventh, we had pledged ourselves but to the de facto Government of Spain ; he considered it a peculiar felicity for himself and the Government with which he was connected, if they were to he a , that a fact had occurred almost iwmeiiateiy after his last letter to the French Government, which verified and estab lished the impressiou under which that letter was written. The letter was dated the 214 Oc tober, and on the teth Bonapartedelivered a speech, in which lie stated his intention of crowning his brother; thereby manifesting to Europe and the world, how far his pacific overtures were founded in sincerity. It had been held, he understood, by some, that Bonaparte's successes were such as should in duce us to consider whatever determination he had fixed upon,as already executed. Whatever had been the success of that persouage, he (Mr. Canning) could not yield the right of this country to as sert an intlepeudent tone for itself, and appear in , the dignified character of defender of other na flow. Perhaps he was in the situation of per sons iii a ship, to whom the (imbue is impercep tible ; for he was yet to be shewii from what circumstance it appeared, that the degradation of Britain was effected. (Mar ! hear !) If, indeed, she was reduced, he would recommend, that in straggling against the adverse waves, honour should be the last principle she abandoned in the extre mity of her fate. No man could be of opinion that we should abandon Spain ; and it was the sentiment of all, that there should be nothiag in our conduct to that country like a preference to particular intermits. It was asserted, that England was desirous to embroil the Coutinent, that she might profit from the confusion ; it was necessary to contradict this misrepresentation in the instance under discus-ion, and therefore impossible to ad mit the claim of Bonaparte. If we had abandoned Spain, we could not have left her tithe was; we must Imre left her in a worse condition, we must have delivered her to the horrors of military execution. There vms.he said, a certain unreason ing instinctive feeling operating uppa that people, which wooed iodate them to refuse the domi nion of a conqueror, mot merely becaus..! he was 'hut, but bessireas ateniminge. Tina feel. ing he approved; • other countries might be astir fed to exchange independence for literature ; but c this was w no o t u o l l b ei e n which he expected tu ed..-each a p ri nc i pleh a doctrine inferred. In judging ei the negoctinh before them, lie entreated the House to dismiss such feel iegs as might bias and obscure their judgments ; ud desired that the negociation should be exarnin ad as if they bad been treating about an unworthy ally, with a fairrlea:ingand principled enemy. He then moved i• Thorn; humble address should be presented to His Majesty, tiaturning thanks for the papers Islet before the House op the subject of the li, at Erfurth ; expressing also their ap i nnteatioa of the conduct of Hi* Majesty's Mini tel. in that negociation." Mr. . n then rose; he stated, that in prneeeding to entree the observations of the Right lien: Gentleman, he felt himself called upon to toter into some deferrer of his own consistence ; he had little imprehensioi. !item that subject ; such was his political life, snel. were the sentiments he had emhrneed, a n d the constancy with which • he had adhered to them, that he was persuaded no d. vintien could be established against him in the result of a candid investigation. The Right Ho nourable Secretary 411 . 1 111/Ide 3 speech replete with eloquenee, but it was not so remarkable even for its elrepienee, as for the admission and acknow ledgement of some axioms of ( iovernineut, new to 'thin part of the House. Had thee. axioms been before adopted, :.ed these principles been be fore acknowledged, Bonaparte had perhaps still *remained iii obscurity, and this country been at the present moment the arbiter of the peace of the glebe. The Right Honourable Gefitletnan heel said, that it whatever the people present to us as their tiorerniscut. we must treat with." But the time was not long passed, when those who main tabled that sentiment were afisied, and when the Country, fin want of the admission and application of such a beutiment, was precipitated into a dises tem war. He perfectly concurred with the ttight Honourable Oendemian, that it was not in consequence of any predilection for Ferdinand the Seventh, they had undertaken, or should have undertaken, the war in which they were now en gaged; it was because the people had preferred him. to whose choice they subscribed, and whose cause they had undertaken : it was for the people of Spain. and not for the King, that the British firms were exerted. But while he agreed iu this point with the Right Honourable Gentleman, he objected to him that he had provoked the answer of Bonaparte ; it waste the presumption and the arro g ince of oar Government (he did not speak of the Right Honourable Secretary individually) that we Mould attribute the failure, or at least the sudden interruption of the tiegociatious now under con slitecatien. lie was surprised to hear thet Right litmourable Gentleman, after having before dis claimed die old morality. after having recommend tl the enpedstion to Copenhagen, assert that France wita unparalleled in her injustice sod @nor mite. Was it not known that Catharine the Great and Frederic the Great were guilty of such acts as aiigtt be cimpieed with them ? Was it not known that Eas"4 herself bad committed oat- rages ia India ? (Hear ! hear ! bear!) And must it abut be affirided, that when we think ouraallves free from the imputation of injustice, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is Not in us ? (A Laugh front the Miegiterial benches). lie was not, be said, surprised that the Gentlemen should ridicule this simple but impressive language; it wu with regret he saw the application of it to the country at present, which war flattering and deceiving itself iii an opinion that Ilia mute of pride than of truth. Those parables which he could produce, he admit ted, formed no jaatification ; but neither could Ministers adduce any justification of their conduct in asserting what they knew before God was not true. Ile admitted that we were not yet reduced to that situation, .when the dignity of the country should be let down, or the point of honour relin quished—let honour be properly pursued—let us have it before us in every case, and upon all occa sions, in the east and in the west, in the north anA in the south : but let us not he laying claims to a character that does; not belong to us, when we are censuring the atrocities of others. With regard to atrocities, Spain herself is not frets from them ; she perpetrated in the west what we perpe trated in the east, and in the course of last year ni the north. lie begged to cail the attention of the Right Ron. Secretary to his own composition, io which he had said that nothing objectionahle was containetrin the first communication Irons Erfurt'', in this he perfectly agreed with him, and therefore lie would have had him pursue a different conduct in the manner of treating that communication. At a former period, witen mediation was proposed, it was refused upon the ground of the basis, but in this ease the two points were conceded that formed the obstacles to the negotiation in the former year. The Right Hon. Secretary had said, that if the Emperor had the feelings of a man, he would not have abandoned Spain ; but he ought to have re membered the unhappy coalition that placed the Emperor in suet • situation as reduced him to compliance ; • and to have reflected whether Government, after forcing him into :mocha state, was justified in reviling him? The letter sent by M. Champagny was accompanied by ano ther letter signed by the two Emperors, con taining nOthing disrespectful or intemperate; had the Right Honourable Secretary replied to this as a former communication had been replied to, that .7 from there was so necessity for departing the nsual diplomatic usages, no )ensure could attach' to him but to tell the Emperor Alexander that lie should have been replied es, if one whose title was not recogiused by this country was net associated with bits, mean insult too open to be justified. Bona parte Ms been recognised as the Chief of the Enoch Government. be was recognised us such at the Treaty of Maslen*. If the Right Honourable Gentle:use would restrain his sarcastic remark., especially in diplomatic builiness, if he would be satisfied with cootiaing them to this House. objec tionableas they may be even here, this country would he likely to benefit from such an act of forbear. awe. He begged leave to cell the attention oldie House to the 1 1Wm:al Note, in which it wee stated, that His Majesty professed a desire for peace. That His Majesty had always professed a desire for peace. nobody could deny ; and that if con duct corresponded with profession ' we should have bad peace long ago.—/ fieer,kear !) Hut the Right Hon. Secretary Intuit recollect, that the rejectiou of two former negociations were termed by Lord Melville, lucky escapes, cud any one who reflects must be aware that this country has never been sincere in bee negociutious. Had we nego. elated. in the present case, with the temper that became its, he would not promise that we should have had peace. hut he could pro noise that the negociation would have tertninated Otherwise than at present, in sentiments of hostility and rancour. lie next called 'their attention to soother paragraph, in which it was stated, that " His Majorty did not regret the calamities of the Continent." This Mr. Whitbread stigmatised as a sentiment unbecoming a christian country iii ad dressing a ehristien world. The Right Honoura ble Gentlensen says, we rejoice that our evils arc _retorted upon our enemies : This implies that our enemies are humbled ; but such is not the fact ; there is not a murmur against the authority of Bonaparte in France ; so that we rejoice in the sufferings of mankind, though our country has derived no advantage Irons their sufferings. There was another para graph to which he would entreat the attention of the House ; it was one which he did not hesitate to pronounce false; it stated that the war was coati. nued because no opportunity for terminating it had occurred. Could the Right Ilan. Secretary, who was one of the Ministry that broke the Treaty of Amiens, make each an assertion ? Was it not for Malta that treaty had been broken ?—(A cry of No ! frets she Miaiaeeria! Benekes.) Then the papers did not say right. The opinion and eon victapn et the country were mistaken; but he might say, without bar of contradiction. that aver. totes were made and rejected in 1800, 1800, end 1808. and this was enough to prove that the sometime in the nale•was unfounded, and that 'it was not owing to France was we were still in a state of hostility. There was another cu rious circumstance to be remarked in the conduct of this negotiation ; it was demanded that Spain should be a party, .but why was it net demanded that Portugal should be a party also? Bonaparte had declared the House of &arum had ceased to exist. The Portuguese hod misted. the Prince had left his territories, be bad doelerod himself the friend of England. why then should not he or ids Regent have bees a petty ? The King of the Two Sieilies was our ally also, why was pot hem party in this cungrees as well as Spain ? As to any delay on aceoeut of Sweden, after allowing her a subsidy of too,oool. per month, he did not coniprebeed the object, nor did be see the necessity of it. The Right Hon. Secretary bad said, that the Spaniards world not consent to a negotiation with Bona parte without his evaccatiag Spain end crowning Ferdinand ; but did the Right Hon. Secretary re collect. now unanimously they cried out for as amelioration of the Government, and a refor mation of abases. The calamities of Spain were owing to bet misgovernment. There was an. ether opportunity for negociating which we had neglected ; when Joseph Bonaparte was obliged to sy front Madrid ; we should have treated then. We might bate assured the Spaniards, that the recognition of their independ ence should be our drat object ; but there was a difference between making it the first object of a negociation, and a preliminary triodition to nego elation itself. Ss to the speech delivered lit 11,:ona parte to the Legislative Body, iu winch be stated that lie would set his brother over Spain, it did not justify the letter of the Right Hon. Seeretaii, li;r the letter was written previous to its * delivery. The Right Honourable Secretary had observed, that Joseph Bonaparte might hare been wit among. the Deputies to tins Congress of the powers of Europe, but how could he have beeu sent ? woo it us a King, de facto, before Spain wits subjugated, and while the people were still ready to resist? As to the allusion to the Roman Catholics of Ireland, lie hoped that Ili, ~lajt sty's GOVertilllellt would take a leasoii fn►in that letter; he hoped that they would see their enemy was ton. scions where their weakness lay, and that they would be solicitous to fortify that weakness against his attacks ; that now when they lime found, loin experience, that Catholics can lie true to their King and country, they may inloi.t a d4.-rout belief, from that Member of the Privy Couto:II who said, that the terms Catholic owl rebel were spionnuous ; that now when we were ti r vding with them on the Continent in behalf of their holy religion, we may not go to Ireland with our SIIS111• CIOIIS and restrictions again ; but as we thanked them for their deeds at Coruniia and at Virneini, we may conclude the act of gratitude by present. iug them with the privileges hitherto dulled them. He hoped something would he done for the Ca tholics in the course of the present Sessioii. He was aware that by his conduct this night, he bad hazarded much; he knew that he would be much misrepresented; that he should r,'te with a small minority ; ( Hear ! hear !) but the smaller that mi nority the more imperious he considered the duty of speaking freely his sentiments. (Hear ! hrur !) Ile feared that the cause of Spain WAN 10,4 awl regretted that we did nut endeavour to do that by negotiation which we could uut do by the swo rd. He had all akin objected to the conduct of the war, and the obdanicy with which we had always resisted pacific overtures; we must come at last to treat with France, arid the frequency of our re fusal reminded him of the story of the Sibyl's books, which were diminished at every rtrusul, and the small remnant sold at last for what would have purchased all originally. Ile feared that the next news from Fennel wontd signify its occupetiou by the French. Government had been too san guine ; the country had been too sanguine ; the bubble of the capture of Madrid was now burst; Barcelona was relieved; Bonaparte had fulfilled his prophecy of banishing our army from the shore; sad this added to every thing that he- had heard from those who had zoom from Spiele r who complained or want of means, of want ifif energy, and the like, induced hint to conclude, that the farther expenditure of our blood up cn the Continent would be as useless as it would be cruel ; he thought there was a moral probabi lity that the cause of Spain must be relinquish ed. He would conclude with moving, an Amend ment, in which, though the House might not agree, he would at least be acquitted in his 04/11 tam science of having diseharg4. a duty to his country, and to the world at Airy. He then moved— " That as bumble Adios be permeated to His 31,jesty, emposiwt His 114001, lbel Ws Home bes tehen lino its Yeel fly wh i : ii ieltliswe, up.. tie by His tabl enal% Wailes m theOmelem made to His Ma- Piety, lie esitelaehlt• Legalise, by is Powers of Rode god Plesmoy is some He Limey, that this House would' have wluMmed, with the despot regret, say isehaatis• ow the part of His Majesty Miammnit to the ebeedseemit of the aims of Spots • at Meow time to oeipubM Ur jest y. Met, ere (deviser idea Ms. 4esty, vsel libeellmesilmispe edelealdela l thm jes t y's MdarduailleseMary of lAA la e uteri:dila MMlalais of She dlsemaZsis .'" W Ilessler France it dues "tot mem liblillsuee era way sea Ile gracefil asseassieu, ea the mei GeNIA Mekste, ems by the sae llMApreek as mey tong elegies; Oe 01•1••• Ni. 1111400 M, flat Asslipietie• al sis la 111•41Midel Maas Ireseldmedl• Peri* hir us Mis. jest Ilmisiesy of Sae fav ec L ai • an i homy N Oa . That the flmie4 sae* is the same Ireniimed VII., ahead Is • • parts, was unwise and home tine; messmosey Sulk usisitaimacc of the great calm of Spaniel' isdspasawle • sod obsismaly c.ncialated to pry ; went all bother imwes:ree es the of peace ; bssablY to repreeme Ia Oh Majesty, that4E to this Haase, as that seamen mode le teem to His Majesty, ought Ow ham bees amweaid le more 'moderate sad wroeffieesey; sad that imgmellagte sad doeisite steps ought do Iwo beam taboo As catering tato aegoeistias, ou the basis sommee I whereby Maw it could bare beek~oredlatboaer thus did wr did use aim a peesilielty afseidleolbsesehtbe mews Om& eigesiatiel, (asmilsed ebb*. ememlNat sod psweetalamiSseee which Mb Mserely em mailed is give to the Speedie maim) the 'swam of Ipsis esd Pertioul Mese the...,miss of Frame; sad whether peace was sift* 11 . to mums& Meosity, that be will be gene avail blonde of impertasity which may of its... ding Is • esmelatios for the malmeelsa et the blasohip of ppm, ea loch terms as the eiremessamai of the was is Ilia we an tamed may team •smge tihle with the tries Womb of the corky, sad the beiessee '• .1 His Majesty's Crests." Mr. Possow v The unfeigned respect which I bear to my Hon. Friend who has just sat down, renders it impossible for me to rise to differ from him in sentiment, without assigning to the Howe my remons for doing so. I dissent from the amend ment proposed iu all its parts. The question now before the House is not as to what might have been the probable success of the conflict upon the Con finest at the time these propositions for peace were made, but whether the overtures contained in the papers laid before the House by His Majesty's Mi nisters were answered in • proper wanner, in fairly comilig to an understanding as to what we meant is regard to Spain ? Although I do, upon almost every point, dissent front the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and n4ree with my lion. Frieud on every subject, yet I must say the lionuur of the Crown, and the interests or the country, all demanded, that a quick explanation should begiven upon that subject.—(Hear? hear hear!) —My Hon. Fnend thinks that a tone more moderately couched than that w hieli the Ministers assumed in their corresponilenee, might have produced a more fortunate result ; but, for my part. I do not believe that snore moderate language would have elected any snore beneficial purpose. I do not, however, say this from a total approval of the tone assumed, for I do not approve of that mode of argociating, which appears like the taunts of one Member of this House upon another, for that is totally anbc- coming the gravity of such is Mimeo atem-iation. The House of Bourbon had been dethroned in Spain, owl Joseph Napoleon. the former King of Nzplcs: had In-en &dared King of Spain by the Emperor .1 France. Upon the bth of September, a regular declaration from the French Emperor was made to the French Senate, in which he stated, that in his virus of the interests of France, it was absolutely necessary that the same dynasty that reigned in France should reign in Spain, it being in compatible with their security to suffer a family to reign, in v:hotu uo just reliance could be placed ; the French Senate answered this message, by telling the Emperor,that they entirely approved of his conduct , that his views of the interests of France were wise, and the war in Spain was just, poiitie, and•neers. sary. Can it therefore be supposed, that after the French Emperor had pledged himself thus upon this sub j ect, after tae Senate had so answered him, and after voting to him 160,000 men to increase the French army, that any tone of negneiatiou could have altered the sentiments of the French Emperor, so as to make him waver from his pur e pose ? At that very time, wen we not too retie dering the most powerful assistance to the Spa- Isiah Nation, and carryin,g nn the most active and determined warfare ?It is evidets‘therefore, . that it was not a time for negociation ; for the state of Spiiiii was to be decided lay the sword. Nothing bait force c.aolti here compelled France to give le s that object ; we were then also using force, .and the question wide regard to Administration is, ehrtlier . there was a better chauce of producing peace by bringing France to au inimediate explanation cpou the subject of Spell,. .or by carrying on oar in that country at the same time ? `With ree,ard to what has passed in Spain, there is no Mali that stands so little responsible as myself. A Right Houourable Friend of mine chose to make la motion oil that subject last session (elludinleto Mr. Sheridan.) On that occasion I avoided . giv- Mg an opinion, as I was then perfectly ignorant of the situation of that enentry, and was convinced that nothing could be mote dent emus than to do so without It roll knoviedge of toe facts, that might give eoli fi dellee iu the advice bestowed . A Noble Lord oppositg then reproached me, by saying, that 1 threw cold water on the enthusiasm of the coun try ; perhaps had he been a little less enthusiastic, (although it does not appear to be his coisslifedicmal Vier) the cause of Spain might not have been quite so desperate nor the negociation so hopeless. By finch enthusiasm as that in regard to Sp:tin, the country originally got into hostility with France, and now that hostility is increased from our interference with that country. At the close of lastresaion, Its Majesty, in his speech, declared his determi nation to support the Spanish people in the way most agreeable to themselves ; the King was there fore pledged by that speech, and the Emperor of France was also pledged by his Aleisage to the Satiate, and his Senate were pledgertby their an swer; when, therefore * it came to negociation, it was not to be considered whether it was right to afford assistance is the way yea did, or whether France should attack Spent in the way she did ; but the question wag, *ow was this country to act upon the .overtures so made ? Thy, is my .esi mon, the honour of the country required that we should know what the opinion of France and Russia was upon that subject.— Let us suppose that no such demand as to Spain had been made. what effect would that have had on the Spanish nati ?ln the note sent to this country there was 110 mention made of Spain. 'We might have sail to them, you are ready to treat on the use possideas, but how comes it that you have said nothing upon the subject of Spain ? Will you admit the Gre eminent of Spain as • party to that iieFpsciation ?' It is evident that the answer to these interrogatories would have put an cud to all new:mann whatever ; so that my opi nion is, that, although the Right Hon. Gent. might have negociated better : yet, still he is not to blame on account of the negociation being put an end to. I give no opinion of what the wishes might be, or whether they wished successful or an unsuccessful termination ; but I merely say they should have asked our enemies whether or not they wished to admit Spain to the negotiation ? As to what Las happened since that time, the conducting of the campaign, and the state of things at present, I do not wish to offer any opinion; but I rettlinly entertain no sangume hopes of ultimate success is Spain. As to the resources of this country, I think we may have occasion to employ them in struggles more import ant for our own existence, than sending them abroad. I would have advised very different mea sures to he pursued. 1 think, too, that the fate of Spain must have been decided before the negotiate tion could have been concluded. Upon these grounds I feel myself under the absolute necessity. upon such an important subject, thus publicly to declare my sentiments, and the mesons which pre vent me from agreeing with the Amenduieut pro posed by my Hun. Friend." Mt. Crises spoke with great violence and en thusiasm in support of the Address, sod maimed. vested particularly upon what had fallen from Mr. Whitbread, in regard to Ireland. He said it VW the fashion now for the Catholics of that country to deny what their advocates said for theta in that Howse ; and he was, therefore, in liors they, upon this occasion, would also disavow him (Mr. Whit bread) as their advocate. Mr. Mustrauua M•enew—tt I sin muds asto nished at some of the expressions that have fallen from the Right Ilaiii.secretary of State upon this occasion. although I believe him to he the only man amongst the present Ministers possessed of any political integrity. I am not afraid of any treason existing in Ireland, although it has been this night insinuated ; and although I am will selnainted with what jacobiniscn is. I was pr .Mat in the county of Down ; anal I was also present at the time the - Member for Dublin stated . very act of the Noble Lard opposite (Custlereseh) iu 1799 and 1790. 1 defy "sty man its the nation to seat that the Catholic'( Iralsoll are rebel.: . that any nabs irli• so i- 3 biter to his country, - mot deservisig r- , r to meat public jtiblice at the hands of the cm:amiss:l% Let Riyht Hon. Gentleness say what be pie.- is to Bona parte's state* 1. I str 'i.s con , • - ! ours are al - 'll . ll Wit* rake. t!:,. :NG, va t ' s O'Coottor stet Gei r.I 110 hest Fill4tlbbfgh,l4crit has ball DO cousiuumcauon Itetvrted fiessoperta t • IA ::. , . ~~ ...-............-41•• 1•••11..- ..