The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1804-06-09 00:00:00

V would seem is if these plans were now to be els en because, if this mode of recruiting by pat o.ile:. is to be adopted, it cannot be reconciled with the other. He agreed, however, in thinking it was hatter to have the men to he raised formed into a second battalion, and taken from then[ into the Regular Army, rather than for the latter to be taken tram the Militia. The plan of the Bill seemed to to take advantage of the zeal and alacrity of se veral parishes. But whether those Gentlemen, who were conversant with the affairs of the country, could ve an opinion, that much was to be expeted from parish officers, ha was at a loss to ascertain. It bad hinted, that some reward should be given to these Officers, according to the number of Men to be raised in their parishes. But was not Zi e like taming them into crimps ? Mr. Yorke that he, for one, did not think this plait would he found to ar.swer, and on this account he should be sorry if it were to be adopted ; and as there as no immediate hurry, and the Bill was proposed as tyre basis ca. a permanent system, instead of hturying it Ough the Muse in the present advanced period of the Session, he should think it far better to suitor such delay to take place as would give proper time for ample deliberation ; tut if no arguments could prevail, to induce the House thus to deliberate or arrest its progress, he, one, was prepared to give his negative to the 1 second reading. Mr. STURGF.SS BOURNE expressed consider. able stri,rise at the nature of the arguments used by he Right Hon. Gentleman, in regard to the present e mu.. The Right Hon. Gentleman had begun his 1 speech, by stating, that some measure was necessary . to,be proposed by His Majesty's Ministers, for the ; Defence of the Country. He hitcl indeed assumed, Il that the force nor on foot, and which had been raised " by due late Administration, of which he formed a part, was, in his opinirn, nearly sufficient for the purpose ed our internal defence, but at the same time allowed that an increased force was desirable, and that he bad hoped to see it such as might be converted into a Permanent system. The Right Hon. Gentleman formerly thought it extremely desirable, that the . terries of the Militia ofehe two countries should be made reciprocal. in order to give usarnore disposable force; that, however, had been found totally impos sible, aad what was !lie remedy ? To raise men in each a manner as they mirth _, _ %•ith the greatest fa ceity, be rendered& disposable force. For that pnr.. pow. his Right Hon. Friend had brought forward the present measure as most likely to effect what so very much was the wish of all parties who had delivered the* iptimeats on the subjea. To this measure the Rigliftfon.Gentleman had expressed.his disapproba. aims on severa grounds, in all of which he could not *void differing with him in opinion. The Right Boa. Gentleman's first material objottion was, Ihat this Rill went to do away the hallo/ ; and his season for the objettion was, that the expense of reisit•g men woald fall with mire weight on the landed interest, than on any other description of persons. This he could not but deny, and was as tosiiiiied that any person who took a comparative view of the present Bill, and that for raising the Army if Reserve, should call this the most °ppm l'.; dm. In the latter, it fell dim-_t'y on the individual. ban by the present Bill, it fell on the parish, which is y. paidsby the public ; and if it were a question which thea an wa c s i snore nadegiy oppressive,answerhethath, theought he cis Arsty Of c was the more so by many degrees. Mr. YORKE said a few words in explanation. Colonel BASTARD said, that from every tiling le had understood from the Right Hon. Gentleman In his first mention and opening of his plan, he did think he should find, in t`at Bill, some means for raising an immediate force ter the defence and se curity of country ; instead of which, it only gives it Rower II the crown to rake 70.000 men by money 111‘ v 4 not applicable by Parliament. and over Which Pas/Lament has no controul whatever. Every ono, the least conversant with history, knows, that Z a t army, amounting to a very large force, of the most dangerous enemies to the liher ....af a free country , and has seldom failed to Li nsialusen • ,Vresthrow and destroy them. If a stranger was the sowansor of this country. he for one would never comae to such an army, which might soon make, at its pleasure. mho was on the tab of no more worth - than that of the metal it is composed of. He egadd by no means api rove the kind of force which k it iatended to raise, at the expence and to the pre helms of the Aildjtia. which our ancestors had ..mmlceays gloried the boa-t of a free peo lst Pk, and had d eemed * the best and greate s t • .socurity for their ies, and for the defence of the country against all invaders. In this force, so truly constitutional. be had ever put and ever would put most unlimited confidence. Mr. B A NKES said, that many faults had been with the present measure, which by no means not 4 p in that point of view to him ; but he could expressing his surprise that the Bill should, of all other things, be charged with not being con• stitutional. He appealed to the Home if it had nct bee:: the universal sct.timent repeatedly expressed diet., eta a very great additional force was abso lately Imilitis:te, and that it ought to be raised as speedily .is nossible. He was surprised at the objec t:on of retit.cing the militia from 70,100 men to its c-:ginal ouot.s, t.sr surely no person would attempt to oraintain the duarine. that when the House by its author *ay have created a military tree to any given extent whatever, either as militia or ce.berwrse, that . - they have act the power to lessen, retrench, or even arrogate it At ;.'stir pleasure. He belieted the source from which we can recruit for the regul.ir army is more confined than many gentlemen imagine it to be; and even though .:.e system of ballot W. 4, car ried to the nunost extent, the regular army could not be rai,ed to tl:a: height, in point of nnmbers, which many hfembers would wish. But in all free countries it is necessary to shew that the pres sure on the community Is not greater than the actual necessity of the times positively and impe riously demands. The present plan is certainly so fax good, therefore, as it first proposes to raise a cons erable boly for limited service, which is much snore easil;• and readily done than for regular or un limited service. Much had been said about the ad santabe that it was thought would result to the truantry, if the colonial service could be made dig ' tiLa from any other part e.f tke regular service, and confined entirely to on- holy of men. He could by • ko means ca y, that this might not be tire case, but these could be no druht, but that the colonial ser vice, if attempted at present, according to the mode proposed, must be attended with the greatest diffi culties, on account of the great distance from home, the nature of the climate, and, above all, the ravages of that dreadful disease which has of late nude such tremendous havoc among the human species resident in the islands, and particularly Eu ropeans. on their first going over. It could not, however, be denied, that it would at the same time be more easy, both with regard to limited time and limited service also, to give the men an option of entering into the general service if they choose so to do. The number of 13,000 men, added to the regu lar army from the Army of Reserve, affords great encouragement to hope that a much larger propor tion out of the present number to be raised will en gage for general service. He adverted to the argu ments used by a Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Addington) on the first mention of this plan, in favour of the Bill laying over fora year, and denied that any advantage could - possibly arise from such a proceeding. On the contrary, he thought great inconvenience, as well as injury, would be the result of such unneces sary delay. The force intended to be raised under the provisions of this Bill, amounted in England, Ireland, and the Islands of the Channel, to no less than 70,000 men; and it was highly important this force should be raised as soon as possible. He al lowed the Defence of the Country ought to be paid by the country, and not fall partially on in dividuals.; and he thought it was in the power of the different parishes, and p,trish officers, to promote this objelt, and toefeet it in a fair, equal, and impar tial manner. He thought also, that if they did not find the men it was their share to do, it was only fair that they should pay towards it. No one would deny, he said, but that the pressure of affairs is greater now than it has ever been, and yet the call 4or men saki now made under far less oppressive modes than they were liable to by former ads. Ac cording t the plan of the late administration, the Army of Reserve AR "%isnot to be repealed, but only suspended, and of course the bounties would have remained as large as ever. The great merit of the present mea.ure is, that it puts an end to ballots and bounties at the same time, and by the same operation. He then adverted to the system eecain mended by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wind. barn), on a former night—of enlisting our Regular Army only for a limited time, instead of for life. If the present store a period in which we could rest on our arms, and look on, indifferent of the pro ceedings of the other powers around us, that plan might, perhaps, be found to be so far good as to warrant our making the experiment ; but this is not a season for such unknown trials. We mast adopt measures, which, from past experience, we have the greatest reason to suppose will be effettive. The present Bill appeared, therefore, to him to be free from objetlion, as it put an end to ballots and high bounties ; and, in the first instance, does net call for one man more than we are at present obliged to furnish, but in an easier manner; and, what was still a further and stronger recommendation to it, was, that great part of the force will be applicable to general service. For them reasons, the Bill should have his warmest support. Mr. A. WRIGHT said he could not give a silent vote on the present occasion, but must declare his disapprobation of the present Bill. His reason was, he did not like to impose on the people burdens which were Lid in a partial manner, as it seemed to him these fines would be, as they would frequently operate with &considerable degree of hardship on those who, from their own aet or their own incli nation, had been guilty of no Lurk uhatever, but had only had the. misfortune of not berg able to raise men. He obje cted particalarly to that part of the Bill by w hich overseers are permit ted to raise men even in adjoining parishes. He should have disapproved of it, had theyeven been confined within the limit, of their own parish. as a bad mode of raising men; but, as it now stands, they are made, to all intents and purposes, rectuit ing serjeants. He thought also that it was an un just, u well as a round-aboutway, to raise men for unlimited service, by means of an intermediate ai limited service. Why. he asked, rot do it at once By the mode proposed by the Bill, it will become a policy to enter first into the Army of Reserve, and having received the bounty for so doing, to obtain a second and a higher bounty to enter into the Revi ler Army, which would be an additional burden on the public. He found himself, therefore, under the necessity of withholding his assent to the Bill, though he was very desirous of giving every support to Go vernment in his power. Mr. ELLISON spoke against the Bill, ben he was so much under the gallery, that we could not distinaly hear him, except a sentence now and then. By what we could gather in this way, we under stood him to say—that desirous as he was to contri bute every thing in his power towards supporting Government in the Defence of the Country, he could net agree to the Bill then Mier consideration, as be considered it only as a branch of the Ar my of Reserve Bill, with a few alterations and mo difications. That Bill be had always considered as extremely oppressive ; and in support of this opinion he instanced one estate within his knowledge, amounting only to 2,700 L a year, which had paid 4001. in the course of seven months to the Army of Reserve. lie objefted to several parts of the Bill, particularly the fines; and concluded, bs saying that if the House consented to raise an army by such partial modes of taxation, they would, iu his opinion, be doing the greatest injustice. Colonel MITFORD spoke shortly against the Bill. Sir JOHN WRIOTTESLEY said, that befme he proceeded to deliver his sentiments on the Bill, he wished to take notice of what had fallen from the three last Honourable Gentlemen who had spoken, and who all seemed to be on the same side of the question against the Bill. They seemed also to think that this Bill lays a burden on parish officers, which in his mind was not the case, for they have an option given either to raise the men, or to pay a tine. In the form: Aas there was no commutation fur the fine, bat they were absolutely and peremptorily ob liged to find the men ; an operation minutely more oppressive than the present, as it compelled them to pay very bigh sums for bounties. Much fault had been fiinnd with the overseers being un- able to raise the men, and Gentlemen had called them recruiting serjeatus 1 this burdca ferns however, en men who were used to it, and they are only obliged to near it for a year. Some Gen tlemen had, he said, called this an unparliamen tary way of raising money ; he differed from those Gentlemen on that point, as well as in think ing, that it was less a burden on the landed interest than any other. If there was one principle in which he agreed cordially with the Hon. Gentleman opposite to him, it was in the absolute necessity of augmenting very greatly, and as speedily as possi ble, our regular force. We had no occasion for more —no need of more Volunteers. We are already placed in suilicient security to let our enemy see he is not to interfere in our in ternal concerns, without being punished. The Hon. Baronet denied that the Bill, as had been said by its opposers, was compulsory. He adverted to the argument urged by Mr. Addington for de ferring the Bill to another Session ; and gave his de cided opinon . that it could not pass too speedily ; and that he would wish even then to proceed to a Committee on it immediately. He then adverted to what had been said by Mr. Yorke as to the Bill's be ing inefficient; and observed, that many persons have been led to suppose, that bccause there was a deficiency in the Army of Reserve, the re cruiting fund wits exhausted.; but in this he contended they were very much mistaken, f sr of the recruiting service it might fairly be said, that the supply was annual from the great nianufaßurin;; towns, and depended very much on the flu:Noting state of our various manufa&ure- at different pe riods of the year. Being an enenli, to compulsion, he was therefore in favour at tit.: Bill, which should have his earn en support. Mr. FULLER expressed himself adverse to the provisions and operation of the Bill, as pregnant with the greatest partiality and injustice ; for the fitlel, poor rates, &c. which would be the coniequence of it, wanld, in his opinion, very soon totally annihi late the property of the manufaftnring and labouring classes of the people. An Hon. Gentleman, he said, had stated, that the late Ministers were turned out to make way for the present. For his own pin, he said, though he had voted against the late Ad ministration, it was not from any absolute wish to turn them out, but from an anxious desire to pros ure a more efficient Administration. At the same time, however. that he entertained this desire for a stronger Administration, healisl not wish to be proscrionce. He had entertained an earnest hope that he would have seen the Hon. Gentleman below him (Mr. Fox ) joined in Administration—a Gentleman, to whose pre-eminent talents, and eloquent and manly argu ments in support and defence of the liberties, and dearest interests of the country, all were indebted. He was, be said, a decided enemy to proscription, and certain that, next to the native courage of our most gracious and beloved Sovereign, he might mention his benevolent mind. (4 a. v of, Order, or der ! Clair rhair I) The SP EAK ER said, that the Right Hon. Gent. was not in order. Mr. FULLER observed, that he would not wish to say any th ing out of order, but he thought the Sovereign's name might be mentioned, if it was not introduced to cause any influence cm the debate. He then repeated " next to our beloved Soven-rw's ceensgt.” (eiensher eru of eiseirl e , ,se,!) • •n,.: SPEAKER repeated, that what the Hon. Member said was not connected with the present debate. Mr. FULLER continued—o Weil, then, I am sorry there was not a coalition. (A M.J !wa d i.) %s to that part of the Bill which related :o the M•iitia, it appeared to him to be very proper, and he h. wed that in the course of four or tire rein, we shoal be able to bring the Militia to its oligmil form, uh;cli WAS to instmet every man in the Cng,l,,rn in :he uiz: of arms, and which cAnic up to wh.tt the lion timman beloor him (Mr. Fox) se properly and em phatically called au Armed Pea...a:dry, whicts, he coincided in opinion with that Hon. Geutienian, would be the most tremendous force that any in vading army could possibly hate to encounter. As he approved of some part of the Rill, he should not oppose its going into a Committee, hi case the House - BLAU, tree to the second reading, but ea the upon, he should give it his decided negative. Mr. DENT began by condemning the condua tf the late Administration, and observing that it was high time to have another Administration, by whom something tolerable might be brought forward for the defence of the country. Asa prodeif the defe,ftive state insvhichtheliteMinistershad leftevery thing, he could assure the use, that at the moment of their going out of o ffi ce, the Income-Tax Aft could not be un derstood, and it was not yet paid. He nex: took notice of the observations which fell from an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ellison), and asked if the Nlember for Lincoln was the only gentleman in that House who did not want a place? (Hero there was a loud cry of Order! Order! CAair! Choir !) The SPEAKER rose and said, it was disorderly in the Hon. Gentleman to make a diiea personal allusion against any Member. Mr. ELLISON then arose, and appealed to the Home, whether he had brought a charge against any Gentleman, or whether he had arrogated any thing to himself ? Mr. DEN I resumed. He assured the House. that be hid meant nothing personal against the Hon. Gentleman. But when he saw a dine attack made upon the Administration, and heard them di. redly charged with having sent for General Officeis for improper purposes, he conceived that he had some right to make allusion to such state ments. lie believed, that every Member came these to vote according to the didatcs of his conscience. He would again assure the House, he meant no personal allusion against my Member; but he thought he had a right to make some observations on what bad been stated in the course of the debate ; Inc otherwise Gentlemen might be abused, without having an opportunity of defending themselves. With respea to the Bill now before the House, all he asked was, that it might be suffered to go into a Committee, where the objelions made to it might be easily removed. Gentlemen should not lose sight of this, that the Ball bad for its obit& to encrease the military force of the country, which, he was sorry to say, the late Minister had left extremely deficient, for they had attended very little to milita ry operations. It was one of the charges against the promoters of this Bill, that there was not an ad ministration on a broad basis. Now he would ask whether flat couisi be imputed as a fault to Isis 'f, • Right for.. Friend ? • Au Bon. Thpll4er 'bad timated, that in consequence of an-order from the magistrates, a number of crimpsliadleen sent from Lincoln into Lancashire. For his own part,'he.could not believe that the Hon. Member would derlare if as a fin, that Lincolnshire had so little ,population, that recruits were not to be raised there. He•had no doubt bin the present Bill, if suffered to be.car ried through the House, would brin about a more perfell system of raising men than uny that:had:hi. therto existed.; and he hoped the Housewould fer it to go into a Committee. Sir Is VIVRENCE PARSON'S said, that all went agreed as to the necessity of haying a great divas:- ble force; and the only difference of opinion wit., how that force was to be raised ? In his the measure of the late Administration was prefera ble to anY other that had been proposed. _ __ _ Mr. CIIAPMAN said, he objeiied • to the Bin oi t account of one provision in it. and thut VAS the proposed reduction of our militia .fince. Lord DE BI,AQIIIERE said, he had so often experienced riii• indulgence of the House, that:he would nod beg Teave to trespass on them for a virtg short time. 'the observations he had to make on the present Bill, would go to the general principledf it, rather than to the detail of any of its parts._ 'Plus, he conccived, was the manner in whisk t! e question now before •the House ettght to be d: `sated. The question was immediately con neEted with the defence of the country, and the best means of giving it stubility. WAS it not fit. therefor e, that it should be proceeded in ? and would th e Heise disgrace its charainer, by seputing :ant driving away a measure which had so itnponantaa objesil in view ? The measure certainly did not gofise enaugh; it did not go to establish that force which he conceived to he sufficient anst necessary for our put:- pose. Bur it went to the attainmentofa certahrobjed; and if he considered it to he the last effort of the peat mind of him who brought it tirrward, it would not now have his support. He considered it merely as a measure winch w:is to give etre, to a thing that the late Ministers had abandoned. namely the Army of Reserve, the operation of which they had been on the point of suspendi - g. This went not only to give it died, but to testier it bens ficial. He could not conceive thi,, however, to,he the last effort of the present Minister, for if it was, it must be unworthy of his great mini. It nem merely to bring into oper ttion a piece of imbecility that had been engendered by other men Co lead fame; a thing which was a nullity, and which sub)wha him who had introduced it to the irnputatioaief blockhead (a laugh). He was confident thelsesent plan would procure men for the regular ern/ ; he had himself tried the experiment of enlisting meet from a limited service into a regiment of dragoons. and he succeeded in it. Then to allow the super numerary men, who were to be reduced &sat the Militia, to enter into the royal aimy, was a plan agaiast which no reason could be advanced, ar.: which was to be admitted. He would, thermo7c., support it with the utmost of his power. Tate Right Hon. Gentleman who brought it forward. should always have his good wishes and sup port. He could not, however, help deed:vit . % the exclusive administration that bad been late* tonnes!. He deplored the loss of so much taker as that which he saw arranged against the Right Her- Cleirlensan. and was grieved to think it was rut mare united with his. He particularly laraertteli that the admi:,istrati3u .acl not Ile benefit ,of the talents at an Hon. Gnaleman who was ;hen post awe - from the Hattie (Mr. Fox had a little Le at this sett his seat). ( there was cow a cry of m Order r'' and tix Sri. seta got up, and said. he must appeal r , ) tie Noble Lord, whether those topics be was .dweli upo;•., belonged Loth., question before the 'lease •rsi DE aLAQUIERE resumed. He said,..L.r did nut feel that he was out of order—(a cr• ze - cid& ! elan !) He conceived it was a part of I..is argument in 'lppon of the question, to express ••••••• confidence he had in one of the Ministers, a... 1 regret he felt at that Minister's not bavieg :.he •- au‘e of more talents, in the arduous sitnationl• , . -a accepted. This was certainly a public calannty. Bat, at the same time, he thought the Right Hos_ Gentleman could go on, even with the assistance is had. Mr. INDHAI'd began, by observing, that a do trine now appeared to be held out, that the pri ciple of the present measure was not to be disca,s4 at all ; that no interruption ought to be givento the second reading of the Bill; but that it should curetted to go into a Committee, in order se halite all the parts of it there discussed. For his par_ he would not subscribe to that doarine; but, as he ti;' - approved of the principle of the Bill altogether. would take the present opportunity of :mein g *gel; c it. He thought this Bill not only i nadeqn ate tr. the Tn. pose it it had in view, but absolutely dertrnEtive et And pregnantvrith much mischief. He sbonldeon side what was the question itself; how far the Inea.tlie was likely to be elikaiwe of its purpose; wbe We: the advantages likely to reruh from it ; sse did it stand, when compared with those nwamres preceded it ? This measure be considered compulsory. inasmuch as it imposed on the mi. -s the task of carrying is Lao Are& Formerly Me • - der of tae 'ay was to raise men by ballot; nose t.... were hi be raised in another way; And C-- , s• men might to 1 him, that AS he once objete: the raising men lay 511 1 .1 t, why did he .1 • fault with another mode of doing so t was a choice GI v.v.) things, and he was to • that if he reused the one, he Must have the and if he would have neither, it might Le -- what was the plan he would recommend ; did he v..ste all at o7.ce for the rejeilion of this r-• -" sure ? He would say, that none of the argumria , : had heard in support of this measure would get of the impediments attending it. He deF.,ll any G-r -tleman to shewthatrecruiting for the army could e • go on upon it. Although this system had conrr.is belonging to it, that compulsion could never pro:- .: men. The state of the country was not There were other means by which the artry supplied. The raising of the Army of Reserve not compulsory; for mon drawn to serve in it. Iss commute their service for a sum of money. --- was it not possible to get men. except by bilk.: Was it nhu well known that very few of the ss serving in the Militia had been drawn ? Mar!: Beers of the Army had dee:area, that theer tz: the greatest difficulty in recruiting. But a • ! well known that men co he praecred ; for e, at !hi I e ntered ; , which ierent STI t vdtk.cd antics for the diffict new mod , was hope _ . an t) fror ',Jed for out in t iployed in ould Teen ens of 111 :in to ge! 'axed foi . service,re i would should 6y feelin g ,noho i ui n un la li n idt a ro t sP h in r country 1 : 4( hic l'rivileges, orrn of $Ol pot have m bon the which rw:l thcold 1101 bee the% • who hich, t he other • marks of Incentives their force ere v•parah men of that belon . pounced " 'l4:ace of verse to t 1 Ithe warst el to thi , Ow weer it 2! 4...itetl to 1 s. Th to men to t effeai on tl lions were ample woi cause a re He was re: by this pla tut, if the for unlimit 'ne fnr the - 1 Live an el in a pi let it not own aad to it a 1 a limited ot hcnot have rea Mr. F Gamer Bill The q ber prase of bziog Mr. P ..-." I be was goy it the hi 4 .3nce ti forward. CPAs whi