The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-04-14 00:00:00

.cession of Lora Cbaltam.— He would - be g!ad to hear these -questious answer ed. Ile did not wish to shake ott.any responsibi lity from himself, but eslie desituuktif meeting the c/• teletedthe most diyect and - irate busier. Ile . with 'unclog for extracts relating to the oecntitiee trkru hum the agents of artillery. Mr. A siteev Cuottas and, that him Hou. Friend could certainly have any extracts from the Instrue lions of Charles the Second, according to which lie would find, that all tinter, through whose Maud; limey was to pails, should !hid securities for the dee performance of their offices. Such wits the principle—but Dot only was the principle in favour of steel securities, the practice was also in their la vont ; even the authority of his Hon. Friend lime. Fed might be adduced in support of the doctrine.— The rectums% were sunned in the howl, in the case to which he alluded, but the hotel was never exe cutes!. It had been said, that the securities should lie changed with every Master-General of the Boatil ; he did not think it was to. The 'securities were given to the King. and, he believed, were as much in force under one administration as another. But the Hon. Gentleurni was mistaken when he supposed that he had brought forward this subject es a matter of charge ; he had only stated it us a resin to induce the lion. (lenticular, to be snore moderate iii his condemnation of others, by bhew log him that he was not perfect himself. With re spect to Mr. Ridge's securities, an augmentation having lately taken place in the corps, he had been eirdered to find new securities, which were executed. But as the Hon. Gentleman had insisted so mach span Ins own accuracy in office, he would state an other case, of similar neglect, against which he might also wish to defend himself: this was the case of Mr. Hophisson ; he had never found secu rities during the former Administrution, though one hundred and three thousand pounds had passed through his hands. Mr. C•LettAFr was not surprised that the Hon. Gaut. should shrink from the charges he lied tussle, for he must have feeind, that even if there was neg lect in his (Mr. Caleraft's) case, it would form no justificatios for those who had neglected, Mr the space of two yeses, to call for eecuritte•. The farts of Mr. Ridge's case, would, hr thiiught, he best ascertained by calling his Own y or oo upon tile quo slims of his @CCU. Attn. He was told, and he was mire upon Motility it would be found to he true, thee the securities Were not einly niepered, hut executed. Auother ease had been joie' 441,41, Upon which he se not prepared to say any thing; but if they would etc' irn a slay to inquire, hr would in all pro:Nalal ty be able to contradict it with •• much eOOh•i 3 OCC and truth as he had contrailocted the foriner.—(Heae.) If he would uut make a 'en-factory defence, sure fell upon Isial.--/Hear.)—When he was put in possession of the papers, tor which lie had inners!, he hail uo doubt lie should be able to exculpate himself ; and by calling Mr. Ridge to the Bar, hr would shrew, that, so far from neglecting, thee h .d securities from hint. If the Hon. Gentleman would beso pied as to lock into all the transactions of the last Aihnitsistratem, and to copy a good many of them, the Gentlemen of the opposite side would do. serve better of the publie, end tintelt money would be saved to the national large.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Lora allowed, that if his Hon. Friend hod . state I these cases as a defence or set-off to his ows cotelnct, the defence and the set-off were mo-t mi seralile ; bui. that was not the mirpose for which hr had statedthem.—(Hear.)—The liiinourable Gen desist' oppoeit - (Mr. Calevafi) had desired him to look to his conduct, which he had. triumphantly contrasted with that of his Hon. Friend. It was, therefore, fair, in his Hon. Friend, to state those Claes, in order to check, iii some degree, the over beariaq of hit , ad y.—(Hear, hone.) Pltsh and blood could not bear it.—(A laugh.) Sir JOHN NSWPORT said, that. even it' the charges made by the Hon. Gentleman acre true, they would gn to aggravate, met to justify the mis cnnd.r't of Ministers. If it. ir is true. that I,i. Han. Friend had hero guilty of such neglect, tiler ta• re guilty of a bleach of ditty, in too hl ▪ 'brat charge.—(llesse.)—lt 4,14 nut aufikient ...It was not right. that they blOotil.l be rase I reel for purpose. Of recrinumitims, to lie brfo/2 1 1t totnard upon occarions, slid urged ill palliation mid de fence of the it own comfit; t, It was the doty of every IIIICI:Ve4lOg Board to Insult over the ',Monis of the banner, and to sae that crew tithlg hi the minutes had been carried into e licit. Cut if there was this omission sin the rut of tie former Board, the continuative of such ninission on the part of the present was still more culpable. This was trot the first time, however. that ri cul mination had been resorted to at a defenee elisrgea which they were afraid to tacet family, end unable to justify openly—(Heat.. hear.) It hail been their uniform practice, ever billet they hail come into office, rind, above all other., the Chen. cellor of the Exchequer had distioguished himself by such ingenuous conduct—(l/ear.) But, ion,- pennons the farmer Administration had hero guilty of all the setts sacribed to them by the ClialieellM of the Esehequer, what satirfactinn was that to the *Mole ? The only operetiou it could have upon t , uove who made the charges, world he to prove them guilty of imitating, and giii:ty of se cretitig, the conduct which they reprehended— /Hear, hear.) The Cna "Keeton of the Eecnterrs agreed 14111 the Knot lion. Gentleman who slinks. lain, teat nothing could be less a justification than a resege upon others; and he could allats.tthe Gen deities) opposite, that hr did not mean in raise his charaNer apron the rail of theirs, or to Retire him self into the °pillion 'het he stood high, only he came he stood higher than they did—(f - fear, /wee, from the Aliteisteridd side). When the HO;.. Gess. Hessen had brought the charge, yesterday. imams? the Board of Ontiance, he hail imputed to ot the loss of 10,0041. of the public money ; it appeared as if he bad then thought that there was the same isecesaity for elven% from the principal as well its from the agent. The instrisetiona of Charles the Second's time did not apply dirreil, to the Master of the (inhume', fir there was no awl h office at that period; bat the principle did apple. and to the principle they' should look in detergent "lt the qnestion. Another charge IWO% that the securities were Met renewed. The fact he believed was, glint those who succeeded in office, commonly gosteladed that all was dune right by their wedge visitor!, and did not feel themselves hound to enter into that minute in:tunny which the Right Ho nourable Gentleman had recommended; bet when the, Right Honourable Geld.lrma° had said, that it was always his practice to recriminate 11110111 the other eide—it must be evident, that if he always recriminated, he must always have hail opportunities—(Hear, /tear, from the 7' y Beads.) He would allow that the Gentlemen were not without their merit, when they shrived a little sample, in an short a space of time, of all the errors into which former Administrations had run, and of which succeeding ones were likely to be accused— (fleer, &no-, jiver the Ministerial side.) But the intention of his Um,. Friend, and his own intention, in what he bad raid u,,6n the former night, was not to sink the Gentlemen opposite very low, but to shew t•iein that the superiority which they boasted upon all occasions, and upon the memory of which they lived, was not so high as they consi dered it; the intention was not to drag them below the standard of ineultind in general, but to ',hew that they were really fallible beings—(A laugh.)— When, therefore, the Honourable Gentleman had represented himself as infallible, it was but. just that he should ; he reiiiiinicti of this truth, which he seemed to have forgotten. He saw no reason why die papers, for which the Hon. Gentleman had moved, should wit be granted. He had ito inten tion, yesterday, nor hat: his lion. Friend, of bring ing forward any accusation i , but for - the triumphant provocation which they had received front the Hon. Gentleman. Mr. PONCOSIBY said, that the merits of the Right lion. Gentleman, who had just sat down, were so transcendant, they were not likely to rise by a companion with any other set of mea ;--the higher he rose in 'situation. the higher did he ad vance in public favour.---(Hear, hear, front the Oppusitun.)-llut 'us goo a huture was no leas re markable, than his gr et , alerts; far, though he hail grounds of a',:cusatioo, he did 'not make charges, his forbearance triumphed over his justice.—(Hear, hear.)—The Right lion. Gentle man had said, that Las Hon. Friend was as liable to 4.. moire. is the lino. Gent. on the opposite side of . louse, who had neglected to take sureties from Mr. Hunt; but the casts were widely rifferent: one hundred and three thousand pounds passed through Mr. Ridge's hands; while above two hun dred thousands passed through those of Mr. Hunt. (I fere s ire Members on the Treasury Bench said, that tioi more than a hundred and sixty thousand pound. was the sum.) If so, then. continued Mr. I'mt.unity. the Board must have been culpable in deed, to admit so great a defalcation. (Hear, /tear.) But one of the sureties was executed in the case of NIG Ridge, and none at all in that of Mr. Huot ; She equality of the two caw was, therefore, not established. As to the other case, which wits men• tioned in the course of the debate, they knew no. thine; of it at present, but it was necessary that they bear.)—He for one would call 'poll the Chancellor of the Exchequer to leave off his forbearance, and to have no mercy on them. What they wanted was justice ; the only thing they did not wish from their hands, war commendation and compassion. —( Hear, hear.) Mr. CA LULA FT said, he held in his hand a copy of the sureties of Mr. Ridge. If there Will only one name to the hood, the public would be secure ; hut he would be able to shew that the sureties were completed. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that lie had aceosed him of recrimination. It was not of recrimination he had accused him, but of attempting to recriminate when there were no grounds for it—(friear.)—He had also taken merit to himself 'or granting the papers necessary to a Mentrier's feeler ;he had talked as if he had the House of Commons in his pocket ; btu he (Mr. Calersft) did 'tot ark it front him; he asked it from the llonse of Commons, amid not front hint, who seemed to carry the majority in his pocket. Mr. Rostov Wow contrived that such lan guage was disorderly and uncons'itutional ; no Member had a right to say that any person tarried a majority of that House in his pocket.—(A tough./ Mr. CALM &FT said, that though, perhaps, the language was disorderly. it was tiot utiows al. The Right Hon. Gentleman did not carry usliurity in his pocket, hut, from the force of his thollieime, and the cogency of his argument. to getlicr with the independent circle by which he was surroumle il—(a /an/O)—lie did manage to (plash such niquiries as were disagreeable to, bun. h,nr.) The inotitm was then carried. Mr. ASHLEY COOPER moved for the papers rela tive to the cos.- of Mr. illopkisson, copies of his suretie., &e. which was also agre•il to. The SPEAILIift informed the [louse that he had rtetiverl a letter from Sir F. Burdett, which he would real!, if thry thought proper. lie then rend the letter, which was as follows: (COPY ) TO TRU RIGHT FOR. CII• REES AKROT, SPEAKER OP TUX MOVIE or !MINIONS. St R—Yuu baring, on or about the uth day of April, inst. as Speaker of the House of Ce.taooa , fury I hly broke and entered the dwelling Loose of me, the undersigned Sir Fran 'is Bartlett, situate in Piccadilly, io the perish of Saint James, Westminster, in the county of Middlesex, and hav ing also, in the said ninth day of April, caused sue to be appothainlcd, and unlawfully committed to a certain prison, railed His Majesty's Timer of London, and to be there im prisoned, and as vet kept and detained is prison there, with- Old any reasonable or probalde Vie., whatsoever ; I do, thereftire, a; cording to the form of the statute, is Such ewe nv d • and provided, hereby give yon notice, that I shall, at or *ma after the expiration of one eakadar month, from the tme of your henig served with this notice, cause a Bill to he card against yiow, in His Majesty's Court of King's Bench, at ‘Vestniiiister, and a writ of summon, Is be there upon awed out of His 'Majesty's said Court of King's Bench, at Westminster, ii;:ainst you, at ay suit, for the said tres pass and false imprisonment, and shall proceed against )00, then upim, according to law. Yours, lc. FRANCIS BURDETT. Dated this e2th day of April, lulu. hire CiaamcZl.7.oß of th e Excittousa moved. .‘ That shoalsl tn. t leered Ott the Journals." M.. Wynn*, Mr. l'utisomas. and Mr. Watt.- zuti. in. *Native(' of its i n sertion. 1 Ile 0101100 was to, ORDS.Virr ar.CURITIES. \I AaIILEY Covet:o moved for leave to bring in a 11.11 to rrigulate tin , securities to be given by those holding aliens wider the Ordnance, and pro viding tnat they bhuuld he vacated in sr the secu rities were not wren in after a certain urn:. Mr. Hoauer Laid, that there were multitudes of usele-s statutes upon such 'Subjects, and that this would go to niciewke their number, without addiug to their etkt.t. The CHAPICELLOII of the EICNKQUIR raid, that if the Hon. had exertibed the same in genuity iu discovering molvalitagea, which he did in tludiug faults, he must see that the Bill would not be without itr use. It went to litcit the time of acting without becuritie.:, and Illade it the ititerrbt of the perion appointed to have theta executed kn. turdiately. Mr. PARNELL said, that the real remedy for such abuses as this Bill professed to correct, would be to iiioVe His Majesty for the remoial of those persotta under whom so much money was lost to the pithhc. Any motion to that effect should hale his SU t. Sir Jon N Niovruar agreed with his lion. 1 . ! iett , l. The ease of Mr. V Olio a ...hewed the futility ot such Parliaineutary provi.oons. la t'•at case it a . .iS pro vided, by Act of Parliament, that no person should enter upon the execution of the Ohre, net no sureties acre exeented. The true way to prevent error for the future was to punish the 'min.—(Hear, hear.)—And he was sure, that if some example: had been made, the public would not, at the pre sent day, be so great a loiter.—( hear.)—lie agreed with his floe. Friend, that the superters of the office should be made responsible. They were trot only the law makers, bat the law breakers : he would have a pretty strong inatatice of this sort to bring forward on Monday nett. Alter a few words front Mr. ItosEaT Waal), Sir J. NEWPORT, Mr. BA iti NC, and Mr. WILDER. roacs, who proposed, that all the bonds should be lodged in the Treasury, leave was given. \i IRISH TITH ES. Mr. PAILNZLL rose, and said—A , Sir, when con. eider the recent occurreuces relative to the Eman cipation of the Catholics of Ireland, Iconic forward with a considerable degree of delicaey.—(Hear, hear.)—Not that l feel that any argument which I shall have the honour to introduce, will, in my opinion, tend to lessen the right of Catholic Emu.. cipatiou ; but that it may be used in the hands of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, as an argument against that which it was a disgrace to England not to grant.—(Hear, hear.)-1 should feel happy, is the motion which 1 shall have the honour of proposing,that that question should lie forgotten. if I am obliged to touch on it, it will be with that delicacy that the merits shall not receive a rub ; the ground-work shall remain undisturbed ; I will try, like a skilful painter, to re-touch its borders, lemming the original as I f.uud it.—(Hear, hear./ The motion I intend to move is for a reduction of the tithes of Ireland; all classes of people in that country are concerned in them, and they must be all beuefitted. I will also 'thew that it will tend to ameliorate the condition of all classes in that coon. try. I presented a petition, the Session before the last. from the county which I have the honour to represent, to the same effect as my motion shall be this night. The House at that time avoided it, on the ground that they had not sufficient informa tion ; that nor'/could not be au objection, and if it was, he would frustrate it by his notion, for it was only fur a Committee of inquiry. The great er part of the populati o n of Ireland are not of the Pro. trident Religion. The population amounted to five millions, and four millions out of them are Catho lics, and one-half of the other million Protestant Dissenters and Quakers, which leaves the Protest ants at half a million. This. calculation I could make many comparisons front, but I will abstain; I will not speak of the West India Islands, or of South America, where the slaves form three-fourths of the population.—/Hear, Aear.)—l think the comparison bad, and will take the enumeration of Mr. Newnhain, who, it must be acknowledged. took great paths, that there were nine Catholics to oil. Protestant iu Ireland. I will ask then, is it fair—is it just? Does common reason tell you they ought to pay equal tithes, at the same time having their own clergy to support ? I do not wish it to he understood, that tithes should be done away with, without something being substituted iii their place. Protestant Dissenters have as much complained as Catholics, •on account of the op pression; and, although it has been two years since I first bruitght forward this subject, there has not been a single publication from the clergy contradicting it. I would wish it to be recol lected, that the pay of the labourer is not such that he can exist on aid pay tithes. It is much better in this country, and not that strew, but the peasantry here are much better this. have !.otter wayrs„ and are entitled ro-purish relief. Besides, the clergy iu Ireland employ pitmans to collect their tithes for them, while in this country they do it themselves; which brought the poor in a much worse conilitiem ; for iiirtead of hawing to act with a divine, a gentleinuo, and a malt of feeling, front his profeesion, they hod to submit themselves to the griping hand of a paltry attorney, or of a parish clerk. These are circumstance'', which, I contend, put the pra,antry of Ireland on very dif ferent terms from those of this country.—(Hear.) The Irish Legirlatitre passed laws on thus question • I they came to a endo,hut what effect had they ? only to hriiig ro u nd the system of farmers or proc tors. :lily wish, ray hope, and all (desire is. that I could ars 'haw the laws of the two countries— (Hear.)—lii this country the tithe on flax wae.ooly five shilling., and in 'rebind it war eight shillings per acre, although it 11 , 41 s the rtaiiir manufacture of the country. I will leave to the candour of say lloomorahle it this is as it should he? hove heard of acts to-rimmed by those agent* of the Clergy, which make. toe shudder. Ilut I will nut take up the time of the. House in arguing, or commenting on them.--(Hear, hear, hear.)— Ther, is a fact, which ought to he well coneirlered. that this country eitiiiiiit supply grain for her own con+ntnpuuu; bear./—I Mesa England. And line would she have been, if Ireland had got supplied her in 'Will, when the Baltic was doled I will come closer to thr preecut period. If Ire. la n d I L A wit supplied 800.000 cpsarterna of grain ? The inference, Sii, that I shall draw front it is, that a much greater might be supplied from that country, if they were in..re en couraged. It is not my inteutiaii to interfere with the tithes of this country. It was last year objected, that I did got come forward with any spe • cific plan ; neither is it my intention nod ; i t my wish that a et:s=3ll tr.e d 8 -- I inquire into every circumstance. e I app „ 40 ," f •: . s. my desire, my plats, that th e c°pat"roCiriSia;l (rl"l:l;iris‘." ili a c . should get rid of the pay silent of tithe. tn I e l trident Clergy. I wiih. at the same tnne, the \ have every equindent. There am m any i i t h which .prevent tithes being so acceptal,:i. 1 , 1 1 ,' t p e ' tier eorillorte:atincdeuasstottonitdlutso first necessuryldep, in my opildet h to b e is to is ...en g i n th e amount of benefi c e s so krn eis that tier' Treasury may h ave full knowledge of th et a and let th e na ti on prov id e for them out of cot tingent expen ses . The entire number of ti t : Clergy amounted to thirteen thousand, a n d, oa the heat calculation which could be made, thei r revenues were 500,8001. n-year. I would re commend, instead of its being paid in the manor thut a is, it ou g ht t o b e ta k en i nto the generalae. count of the nation, which will secure the Cler iv'e salary from the casualty of the depreciatio n of eery. 4 feel a conviction in my mind, that t ht. tel . a . sure wouldafford effectual relief, and wo o l et) , ate the people of Ireland to the measores the rights of the Clergy ; bar I have taken them my full consideration, and they cannot be and the great Blackstone's opinion (Ala s m e out to the assertion, for, receiving an equiveleiat; they could not complain. I have ton omen reavert I'c the it characters to suppose they would ; flair minds are too much enlightened to consider it in ti ; they, frosts educ.etion, and from their o (mid ine (abject to this mode of pila w lamg,h.)-11 can uesure the blouse, env have bald Nas4lot intended to create a WWI. I speak a. I feel ; for I believe there is not a were r,..pe,,,„1,1e clues or Divines in the sorld, thou the Protestant Cler g y of Ireland.--I would wish to ale lethal.- their cave ; for how hurtful to their feeling, moat it he. to apply to the pauper for his tithes, when, pee lona. tare clergi man himself its is want! But how mach more severe the case, whe n t h e pauper had not the humane clergyman, bit' an in human proctor to deal with, acid its sutler crier hardship ! lion. Gentlemen, who hove never he ro in Ireland. could not have an idea lose mu c h t h e most ireful part of its peasantry, have and are depressed. The liie,ht Hon. Gentleouan, Memb er for Dublin (Mr. Grattan), in a former Session, made a similar motion, and proposed to rai.e fend by county aate...onents. I do not intend to follow that preredent ; but that it sliem;el be (lone he general tax:insp. I will not press for say particalit mode, but tiny would be better than the present sis ter'''. It may be as.erted,that persons in t he same sau ation as myself would feel it set ere to b: ar a gr, err barGlell than we at present exiat under. I. far sir, say—' No: relieve the oppressive at :le of my elin_ trymen, and the last guinea I poses' will most willingly give up, to accomplide this gr.at 011- ject. l'lie ;people of Ireland expected at the time of the Union, that this great grievance would h.tve been done assay; they thought this country had given a pledge to that effect, and nothing could coistince them to the contrary, belt the Parliament doing something to alleviate their distressed situa tion—(JJeer, hear.)—Can it be doe Weil that it was belil:red by the people of Ireland, at the name of the Union. that they were to he placed on a tooting with Esiglidimre, and that the law was to be rqii ills el:sti Muted It would be dangerolai to bull out it was not the case. (Hear, hear.) I contend that it was hy the means of this eniwile ration being Lehi out, that the Milan waa ever ef fected. l icepirst. levy more, I simile! be; and iln. plore of the House, by their vote this uiyut toshew, that the people of Ireland were nut miss.ken, that they had a toeing still to hang ley.—(lfear,hear )- 1 coutiou the House not to hold out too great a mass of the ;people, sod no so mite It of the strength of the British Empire, that they cativot expert relief. I call upon this House, in the tisane of its own safety. to consider well before they decide. I wish them to remember that this is the only part of the empire which the tyrant of the 0,0;m-a thinks vulnerable; give them the little they aa, and you will disappoint hint. lie will find them invulnerable, and as strong a barrier as any in the Empire. 1 do, therefore, move, •• That a Select Committee should be appointed, to take nun nett consideratiou the state of the tithes in Ireland, and other matters relative thereto."—(Heer,hear.) Mr. W. POLE said, it was a question which im premed his heart with the greatest anxiety; but the same objection remained, that did at the time the Hon. Gelitlelllan brought the queation forwasd be. fore, It trail . 14 110:errIUS to invade a system, with out having sometiimg to replace it with. The Hon. ne..tielliin was completely mistskrn in his ides of the system of collecting the tithes in Ire. rind. The practice of the laiiitlords heis-been to cent the lands to the highest bidder, which often decoyed ignorant perno in, sod the profits of the land wuuld not bear tile rent and tithes. The landlord encouraged the truant to oppose the tithes, sod he become the oppressor inmead of the clergy. Government had tried every thing to reform the system ; they had formed bills with that hi • ',tole yet they could net bring them to art with effect. The Ilmomeable Cientlemats had acknowledged, that Ise could not propose a regular plan to do away with that which be complaiued of, although he said be bad given it bis full consideration. This he believed to be the ease, and 'bat the Hon. Gentleman deserved the thanks of his country for his 'Blatt He would assure hilts that he was no less alive to the rehire, and a hid undergone his most serious considers.: tion. The Huosurable Gentleness had said, however anxious he woo that the minds of the people should be sattatlert, yet, he would contend that the clergy should have full remune ration—this argument was a fallacy, as it was put. titer the people in a worm state, by every thing he had soon ;—they only pay one..taieotieth inattail of one-tenth, as titfieiv, from the d i a t i o lly of assessing them. This, in the first place, would br a aluan. bling.tiloek to the mole proposed by the Hun. Gent. as it would oblige them to pay a loth, instead ere gOth. There were no two part. of Ireland where the tithes . were paid in the same way. d This woul he alm an objection.and might street acme enemies oateriolle. lie believed, upon his enterer:ice. that Iltather tire clergy, ”or their appr iprioiors, wi re too well paid. but that the 'outlined Immo(' lila hoed of es high a rate, that the tenant sea 1.4.4 able to bear it. 4 o.urai but se in bis t►epr Win VI OW , " cretin mare( Mr, U" cit sf, th. mi. !I kiwit it, hul doodt \dstre 11• I. titite to eleino , see-t 1 the C tent firrh op all su lam!! arose tor.l) moor whi.l poor. Erni lbe pl aro assn latit fur rah iinAN to tot.; 14 C... : t I e , ll the., Hut . Pe" , • is