The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1804-06-12 00:00:00

"' ia 'rebid hs that period. All these motions were agreed to. ' Sir WILLIAM PULTENEY moved, that there be laid before the House an account of the sums of money expended in maintaining the Cape of Good Hope, from the time of the surrender of that Co lony to Cie British"' forces, until it was given up again . ; together with an account of the revenue staramg to government from the same during that period.—Ordered. , the Motion of Mr. Rose, an order was made An the proper officer do lay before the House a . aopy of the appointment of a Member of that House • •oS the office of Prothonotary to the Court of Com mon Pleas of illiDusby of Lancaster. Mr. Rose said, it would be for the House to consider whether, by4acceptance of this office, the member did not his seat. the suggestion of MT. PITT, Mr. H. LAS• CILLES put off the Yorkshire Cloth Manufaaurers' Bill till Wednesday. DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. ,Mr. PITT moved the order of the day, that the House resolve itself into a Committee on the Addi tie* Military force Bill ; and on the question, that the Speaker do leave the Chair, Mr. JEKYL rose, and said, he felt it his duty to objea to this Bill. After what had passed so lately, be felt it his duty to trespass shortly on the time of the House ; and be could not help thinking, that everyone" who felt as he did, was also bound in duty to oppose this rneas-nre. A variety of plans bad, fur sione time past, b.:en offered, with a view of putting the empire in a proper state of de fence : all these wese disagreed to and re jefted. The Right Honourable Gentleman, on . the other side of the Honse, had, before he came into office, drawn an outline of a plan, many pins ,C which were approved of, and which, on the whole, was admitted to be a just object for dis cussion. From the well known abilities and talents of that Right Hon. Gentleman, he hailed it as one that might produce the happiest effelts ; and hoped at that time, and perticularly since the Right Honourable Gentleman became a Minis ter, that he may lay before the House a great mea sure, whish would be good in itself and be adopted. But be was ntyr mast miserably deceived; after seeing the outline of the scheme proposed in the present Bill. There was not in it one single fea ture of novelty except one, and that was one which the proposer of it could not, on a due consideration, press in the form of a legislative a 6. He would sub mit it to the judgment of the House, that there was but one feature of novelty in this measure. and aim that was one which ought to be rejeded. This mthe plan ci recruiting by means of parish uses. The imp ,, lic; of carrying into praaiee web a meastue as tail, must be evident to teetyy country Gentleman, who nes in the habit of man parish odious, and of knowing the various itbd [wavy duties they had to perform. And when, imo all these, the duties of recruiting were superadded, *wits evident that burthens , which the; were una ble to bear, were to be imposed on them. The measure was not only unjust, but impolitic and 1113.. praaicable. It was unjust to make individuals pay . Ames by parochial assessments, and to coml.el people to find ...lbstitutes. It tines were to be paid by part.- ehial assessments, then all the individuals in a parish must contribute tnw.cnls them. A paper had been that day put into his hands, which he would nad to the 1-louse. It was the case of an individual at Liver pool, who had been balloted an 3 drawn to serve the Militia. He paid 30 guineas for a substitute, by which he thought himself exempt from all further ballot or service - during the war, and that the faith of Government was pledged to continue that ex emptimi to him. Rut if the present Bill was passed, he must pay his share of ele parish rates in the same manner as men who had not been drawn. This he considered an injustice, and would be a breach f ia;cl3 on the part of the Parliament. The paper.also stated, that. many persons serving in Vo ltuateer Corps, and who had been exempted from all other service, would now consider themselves treated unjustly by being obliged, in common with others, to pay parish rates towards raising a new Army of Reserve. The impolicy of the measure then was most evident ; for many of these Volun tars would resign. He was sure that the measure, ifrwed into a law, could never be carried into e_ , ; and on these grounds he would oppose it. Mr. PETER MOORE said, when he looked at the principle of this Bill, be considered it one of the meet alarming and unconstitutional measures that ever was entertained by that House, since the de testable times of James the lld. tie desired Gen dames to compare this measure with one that stood on the Journals of that House ever since the reign of that Prince. And if the House had since re. Rained its constitutional liberty, he hoped the Mem bers would imitate the condo& of their ancestors even at that time, and rcj:Et the present mea sure. Immediately after the suppression of the Doke of Monmouth's rebellion, the King, in his Speech, at the opening of the Parliament. laid down principles similar to those contained in the present All. Although the Militia and the army had done. their duty dories the rebellion, the Kmg stated, that the Militia melba sufficient for the country; that nothing would answer but troops of the line, ilds were to be kept in constant pay, and that by these alone the country could be defend ed. This speech was delivered in November, 1655. He hoped gentlemen would look to the fine which their ancestors had pursued at that time. All they did. in compliance with the King's wishes, was to grant a limited ripply proportioned to a limited force; strongly reprobating the idea of a large and permanent force. They also addressed the King u dismiss those officers who had not taken tha test oath ' • and instruatd their Committee to bring in a Bill for establishing a Militia more suited te the circumstances of the country. He saw the Seine ground at present for the exercise of a similar jealousy; he saw a measure brought forward, which Hit a similar tendency to subvert the Constitution ; and which the Members of than House, in imitation of their ancestors, ought to repudiate. Let nor our litia be diminished : if it was not competent to do 1111 duty, bt i rig _in a Bill to make it se. But he would tiontend the Nfilitia had sitne its duty; and prscl idetl every idea that the force intended by the present Bill was necessary. It was stated to be a perma is st additional force for the defence of the realm, :al it was on this principle be ()Netted to it. But the nate of the country did not require such a force; either for home defence or for foreign service. The country was admitted to be in a state of security ; and so it was. We, had a military and maritime force which at this moment amounted to 13e2,(XX) men. All that was wanting was to organise it in such a manner as to render it fit for aduatservice. ‘Ve hid an army in the North, another in the South, another in the East, and one in the West ; and they were all doing nothing, but they were ready to do every thing. The force now to be raised would help them to do nothing ; fur, such was his reliance ou our marine force, that so sure as the enemy ever attempted to leave their own shores ' so surely that would be the last story they would have to tell. Now, suppose we were to have a great disposable force, lie would a.k where and in what manner was it to be em ploy ed ? For his part, he knew not on what part of the Continent of Europe such a force could ad with any prosped of -success. There was no occasion that could call for such a force at present. We were blocked out from the Continent at present ; and th- inhabitants of the Continent, depressed and degraded as they now were, did not seem to require our aid or interference. He remem bered an arerdote of the Duke De Vendome when he was carrying on a war in Italy against the House of Austria. He asked an Italian peasant what he wished to become of the French ? The an swer was, that he wished them all to be drow. el in crossing the Rhine. When asked what he wished to become of the Austrians, he said Ire wished they might die laughing at the French. The same sen timents cf indifference appeared to prevail amon the people of Europe with regard to the French and English at this time. They might wish to six the French all drowned, and did not care if we died laughing at them. He concluded with giving his hearty opposition to the Bill. Mr M'NAGHTEN thought that the opposi tion made to the present Bill, could do no good in the country ; he wished the opposers of it would con sider what effed their speeches must produce out of doors among the public A standing army was now talked of as a most terrible thing. But in answer to this, he would maintain that a standing army was at this time the only means of preserving the Constitution of the country. and of meeting tire the upstart Tyrant of France in another country. He would ask Gentlemen what they meant when they said, that it was to he permanent? Did they ant know that a Mutiny 818 was passed every year, without which that standing army could not exist ? Had not the House the power to stop it at once, if it was found dangerous ? The opposition to this measure was at once vexatious and fatlious, and it was a violent attempt to embarrass His Majesty's Ministers. Here the Hon. Member was called to order by Earl TEMPLE, who said no Member was justi- Eel in imputing improper motives to others. The SPEAKER said. it was certainly disorderly in any Member to do so. Mr. 111 , NAGHTEN said, he had made no per• tonal allusion to any Gentleman ; and he was again proceeding, when he was called to order by Sir William Geary. Sir WILLIAM YOUNG also arose, to speak to a point ni order, when be was called to order by Mr. Cuff. Sr: WM. YOUNG contended, that he was justi fied in calling any Member to order, who applied the epithet faelious to others, and who would take away from Members of that House. the freedom of debate, and their delibet ative capacity. Mr. M.NAGHTEN then said, he shou:d not trouble the House any more. Colonel CRAUFORI) said, he so far differed from an Honourable Gentleman on the same side of the House, that he always wished to augment the Regular Army : it was the only means of bringing us to a state of solid security, because it would tend to reduce the power of France. But although he was a warm advocate for the Army, he must oppose the mode held out in the present Rill for increasing it. If that mode was adopted, the Army would be filled by the most contemptible individuals. Tocrefore he wished to save it from the disgrace of being re cruited by such persons as this Bill would bring into it. He certainly gave the Right Hononr able Gentleman credit for abandoning that past of his plan which weut to make ballots per. manent. Yet this plan, such as it was, would pro duce a great deal of vexation and no benefit. He admitted that in this country, which was dif ferent from all others on the Continent, it would be a most difficult thing to compel men to enter the Regular Army. Even a ballot for the army would be the same as a military conscription. No com pulsion was necessary for keeping up the Regular Army. But, considering the military conscriptions that prevailed in France, and the violent means by which great armies were raised there, we should endeavour to be put on an equality with her in that respea. We must have recourse to some great plant but it ought to go no fur ther than to give the Crown the power of -ore. polling every man in the country to be trained to the use of arms : and in doing so, care should be taken that His Majesty should not have the power to degrade men by putting men in a rank lower than what they possessed. No compulsion ought to exist beyond this : and if a plan of this kind was carried into effea without abuse, there could he no real compulsion in it. Rut the propositirn held out in this Bill of laying a punishment on parishes, was a most vexatious proceeding : and one which might fall with the greatest severity on those parishes that deserved rewards instead of pu nishments. Those parishes which were so well regulated. that few idle or disorderly persons were to be found among them, would have the gteatest difficulty in procuring recruits: on them, of course, a penalty would attach, while those that abounded with the lowest vagrants would be able to make up their quota, and they would escape the fines. As to landed proprietors procuring men, they had very little influence among their tenantry, except in remote parts of the kingdom. It was said that the more recruiters there wore, the greater would be the number of recruits; and, on that ground, the Right Hon. Gentleman recommended parish offi cers as gond recruiters. But he would ask, why might not Non-commissioned Officers be seat into every parish for the purpose of recruiting, without passing such a mains Bill as this With r :sped to those persons sometimes called crimps, so far from his wishing them to be abolidted, he wished for a great many more of them ; but they shoteLl be put under our power by proper regulations; they should consist of non-commissioned officers subjea to martial law, and strialy watched. They would answer much better, and could get men much more easily than parish officers. Crimps of this description might be procured at a less price than the reward that was to be given to Parish Officers for procuring men. Now with . respea to the use which was to le: made of those men, whom the present Bill proposed to raise, it was said they would enter into the regular service, but he did not see how that could be Jane without inveigling them into it. He strongly objeaed to taking men from a limited service into a permanent service. And also objected to the plan of placing two different kinds of force, by attaching the second battalion of men of this de scription to the Ist battalion of Regulars. Tbey would be both in different site rtions ; a different dis cipline would be exercised tew.irds rete from that of the other. This would produce mischievous effisas in both kinds of force. Ilene were now in the country 140,000 men enjoying all the honours and distinCtions of a Regular Army without doing of the duty. And this constituted one of the greatest difficulties to get men into the Regulars. the Right Hon. Gentlemantexpressed a strong hope of deriving much advantage from the connea ion that would exist between the first and second battalion ; and the resourceof recruiting which:the former would find in the latter. He should be induced to male a conclusion the very reverse. The intercourse be tween the two battalions would expose to the second whatever was disagreeable in the first. It the men did not happen to like their Commanding Officer, the first, if, in their opinion, he was too stria in discipline, this would be communicated to the se cond. In a word, whatever could excite discontent in the first (and such subjeas would exist in all corps), would be known to the second. But a mote important objection to the proposed connection be tween the two battalions remained behind. Sup pose the first to be sent to the Nett-Indies, where the men often die at the rate of fifty or sixty in a battalion in a month, and the whole dies sometimes within a year; was it reasonable to expea the men from the second to volunteer to fill up the fitat, knowing this mortality? Reel ments hasing the whole, or nearly the whole of thew men in those climates, are recruited from the kingdom at large, because the dreadful nature of the loss is not adverted to. But will that be the case, when this species of con neaion, supposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman, exists between the two battalions ? It such were to be the fate of a country regiment, that it lost the men in the way he had described iu the West In dies, it would be a decissive blow to recruiting from its second battalion. As to the gradual reduction of the Militia, as proposed by the Bill, he must oh : jeCt to it. As a means, of recruiting the Regular Army, it would be better at once to call on die Militia (to the amount that is to be reduced) in a fair and honourable manner to enter the regimeets of the line. He heard it objeasd to I those who opposed the Bill, that they criticised the measure without offering any plan of their own. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Wiedharia) had proposed a plan of the most perfea simplicity, and of equal efficacy. Let ail competition in boun ties be abolished; let the conditiou of the soldier be rendered more desirable : and let 11;1 service be for a limited time, and not fur ;ar .1 din the AMU will not want recruits. 'this q a c c' e plan or his Right Hon. Friend. This Bill put him in mind of what be saw on the Continent formerly, and parti cularly in Germany. An automaton played on a piano -forte, an itioneesa apparatus suirounded the figure ; but it had nothing to do with the operation of the automaton's playing, which was executed on a simple principle; and this grand and formidable apparatus was only designed to impress the spade tor with a false opinion of the means In which the automaton touched the keys of the instrument. The Bill was o?crose and complicated; but the real means of raising recruits were not to be found in it. He would say a word of some things, which he conceived to be of the utmost importance, tho' hi therto neglected. First, fortifications on that part of our coast where it was probable the enemy would attempt to land; secondly, the making one or two strong places to prevent the enemy arriving near the capital, before the whole force of the country could be colleaed to encounter them; third ly, the surrounding our military magazines, near the coast, with works strong enough to sand a siege ; and, fourthly, to throw such works round the capital, as to enable it to defend itself by its own force for a time. In the last place, be would recommend a real Army of Reserve ; men sufficiently trained to fill up the ranks of the Line, who, without going from their homes, might be prepared for this ser vice. And this was necessary, because the enemy, in many severe actions, without defeat on our part, and even with brilliant success, might reduce out ranks, which, by those gleans. we ought to be pre pared instantly to fill. He was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman propose to augment the ir regular army; be hoped to see that etre-fled. But the present Bill would not add one man to our force, except by the most detestable means. He should, for all these reasons, oppose it in every stage. Mr. BURLAND wished the Bill to go into a Comrnittee, hoping that its defeas might be reme died ill:ate. M. LANGHORNE WAS of the samu Mr. ROBERT WARD said, the I ;on Gentleman who opened the debate complained that there was no novelty in the Bill. It seemed to be the fashion to make such complaint. However, there was the novelty of abolishing the ballot. One, Hon. Gen tleman had contended earnestly tor the patronising and increasing of crimps ; now, he believed, it was well understood that crimp is one who keeps a public-house, encourages men to run in debt with him, and then takes the man as the payment of his debt. The Hon. Gentleman talked of regulating them. But how was that to be done t Mr. JEKYLL said, in explanation, that he had observed there was no other novelty in the Bill, than that of the parish officers turning recruiting ser jeants. Colonel CRAUFORD said, in explanation, that there might be persons employed in raising men, not military men, but under proper regulations. Sir W. YOUNG opposed - the Rill, as bt4ng win it, unconstitational. The inpetkors appnintA by it , he said, would he neither, more or less than th e spiec of Government. He detailed the evils whi t ", would result from the wish of parish officers to ea men ; tempting, as they would do, person s i n their power to commit faults f rom which it was their duty to restrain them. He recommendeclan errand peasantry', trained to a certain degree; and that would be the best source ut recruiting for the army. Mr. SHAW LEFEVRE contended, that the Nil resolved itself into a dire& tax, and nothing ?a we; and that a must obje&ionable tax. He was an tie s . my to the mixture of duties it imposed upon Pariin- Officers, civil and military. He did not like to see parochi.il taxes applied to general services, amour: ; etre& of the iii!l. He ei•livered his sentiments with much pain, having a great respell for the Right Hon. Gentleman; but he performed his duty. wished the Government to recur to recr.ating, wait some : of that system. Eir WILLI 1M PULTENEY said, the liberty e the country %Ad Seen preserved by the i. ilausy of Commons against Standing Armies. .1 he safety a the country was insured by its insular situation. and our fleets. It was Jet possible for the e nemy !„, come suddenly upon ns. We were rot exposed a t the manner it sat the fashion to represent. He he. lieved the alarm was created for the purpose of raising an extraordinary standing army. It was he. ,acaing the fashion to attempt to carry all the tuts. sures of the nation by a great military force. He conceived the alarm of the enemy's power of at. tacking us at home, as a bugbear, let this purpose.. The Rill involved a great constitutional question. which demanded the serious arention cf the Rouse. He disliked the Bill, as being most tiAitscr , a, to th e liberty of the country, and must raischtevons.ia its c00...4u :nixes. The Hon. Mr. RYDER said, it had been echoed and re-echoed from the othes side of the House, that the Regular Army was not large enouA ; . yet this Bill was opposed, though expres s ly calculated to increase it. There were, indeed, no topics on which the Hn. Gentlemen agreed among them selves. tie believed the majority, and a great 111:, : n. rite], of the House would agree with him, that i....!e nay fear from a standing army was, that of the 200,000 or 300,000 men on the other aide of the Channel. No man could say, that this contest VC h France might not last beyond the life of the yoUnget person in the House. Were we then to make i o permanent preparation for it? Was this courdry to suffer itself to be surprised ? If the meassre vi es not permanent, it was of no use. The Pali.- ment could at any time disband the army by a breath. An Iloaourable Gentleman had com plained of the mixture of 'duties, military aoa eis ft. But this pervaded, and must pervade all cr. situa tions. What were the Volunteers ? In t • oce..-- nations, they were in a civil capacity. .'ir e t:-, ~„ i therefore, to renounce the milita.y they t-ie t...ea upon theinselves, with such litniniir God for. hid l Is ::ot the Honourable Gentleman him self in this d. &de capacity ? The, Sill did tx:e things; it alaiiii had the ballot, al.!. it :educed the high bounties. He dated not plc • so iieep a g1:71.• as to IreiCet it; bet:AliSe ; At lta.t, did sorni-thi:ig towards increasing cot R..,-01.:r l' ce. If the El in other respeis niiii.ated egainsc his gene: al opi nions, yet he dared not take upon himself tfie greit responsiiiility c-f iej-iaing it. He contended th it it did nut deal :o any vexations use pf the pr. , - t. uf pm ish officers ; aral ore 17: at excelletre it the Cid sea:, that it did not Luau:re with any 0t1.,.... mode 4 recruiting the army. Mr. Saw Le Fives explained. Sir JOHN NEWPOR P reprobated the Bill as vexatious and unconstitutional. The Hou%e divided on Mr. Pitt's Motica fat the Sp e: • ..T ' S le..ving the Chais : Ayes 219—Noes 169---Majtizity 50. When strangers were re-admitted, we found !dr. Pitt or, his legs, and moving "That the blank fur the deficiencies of the Militia he filled asp with the number of 12,000 men annually." This, from the conversation which passed after wards, we found was in consequence of the Mein Hon. Gentleman's having proposed to ftll op he blanks then, acd as thc opposite side of the ]louse conceived, the Bill was to be printed with the blarks filled up, and recommitted for 'I hursday. Mr_ Pitt thought, however, there would be no neceroky fur re-committing the Bill, and proposed that rather than lose so much time, they should tliJa proceed to read the Bill pararraph by paragraph, and go-- through as much of it as they could that night. and proceed .. ith :he remainder to-morrow, so as to have the Bill reported on 'Thursday. pr?- duced a very long and desultory cor.versation, the course of which, Mr. Pitt, Mr. She, id.in. Mr. Johnstone, Mr. Pox, Mr.W. Dundas, Mr.W. Smith. r.Addington, Sir Gilbert Heathcote, sp. ke sect cal times or, the point of order and regularity of pro ceeding. On the part of the opposers of the L 4 it was conttadcd, that in a measure of such cor.•is iittence and importance to the country, tile Bill ought to Sc read paragraph by paragraph, and !Le (idlest eonsirl •ratioa and discussion had up.:n that there was not time to do this on the r .(•:eze evening, and therefore their r. , ish was, that the man should report progrc,-, and ask leave to te again. Mr. Addington was appealed to as r-4" praetice of the House, and he informed Cat as the Committee had proceeded, they had . leached the ninth page, without having he Fon • read the Bill paragraph by paragrap!i, by sv;.ii ii they were precluded from going back again ; and if the Motion for the Chairman to report progress V.4* carried or agreed to, the Committee, when the"' met again would be in the same situati o n,ancl could not proceed but from the page where they now were. The only wry to get rid of the difficnlt, would therefore be for the Right Hon. Gentleman to fill up the blanks and agree that the Bill should to re-committed. After a conversation of considerable length, Mr. PITT said, the discussion had taken up rn much time, as to render it impossible to go throueb the Bill paragraph by paragraph that evening ; a nd' he would, therefor*, agree, that the Bill should be recommitted on Thursday. The Chairman then reported progress, and asked leave to sit again. The other orders of the day were then read ark. postponed. Adjourned. TI The Pyres }louse f 50. f t'ie t. It lie Op farce. they w ter mit )nposi :metes The 15,11 L;taNt. rial dij first pt not sul rise ii [ople t e ad th known any 1 seer It :.,t idem TKr/ ii 'heard Ilous lclasi, 'PART r~ urn bo:gh thr tONZ C 2 b i 4tUl t. , te Ut t :eivi latisl dui:, lame deers Mini press mem the i !sail • Irecei One recot ree T two