The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-04-09 00:00:00

• . their accounts: and justify their multi& ? The Right Hun. Gentleman had expressed much anxiety to come to a conclusion upon this miestiOn, before the recess of Parliament. Where was that anxiety now, when he proposed a Selea Committee ? Could any men in that House lay his hand to his heart, and asey he could controvert those propositions? The Right Hon. Gentleman (lid light to suggest a further enquiry, provided Mr. Ma k Sprott would eommunicate his knowleOoe of the transoeion, if owould, open his mouth as well when upon his oath, a. when he was not. He Chen. retn o tded the House of the Repott of the Committee on the late he Sheriffs of Middlesex, wheiothe Committee made their report, which was received as lull evidence, sad Cosisel were allowed to speak merely as A sup plemental', ettplonation. Would any roan is being, he asked, ea y that Lord Melville, Mr. Trotter, or Mr. Mark Sprott, by an after examination of the kris, add any thing for the satisfitetion of the Hesse? His Right Hon. and Learned Friend (the Attorney-General) had gone over the whole of the case, and pressed the necessity of a Select Com mittee; but the CoMmissinners of Naval Enquiry had been occupied for six months in no ether busi ness than that of investigating the matters of the tenth Report. What utility could it then be of, to go into a new Committee? he wished to see what reason could be urged for it. The Right Ho nourable Gentleman appeared anxious to know the extent of the deficiencies. not for the purposes of crintinating, bet for the purposes of refunding, as appeared from his enumeration of the several sums paid and received. The money Was not kept in the Bank; no, says the Right Hon. Gentleman, it was lodged at Messrs. Courts, to save trouble : a clerk of the Navy Office takes a cheque for ..large amount, receives the value at the Rank of England, passes Somerset-house, and carries it down to Messrs. Coons and Co. This IN as the convenience. He did not want any further illustration of the fallacy of the pretence. One point more he begged leave to adeeroto. While he had the honour of holding die office of Treasurer to the Navy ; no inconvenience whatever arose from a strict a dherence to the Act of Parliament, which was one of the most s ilinary and useful eve; framed ; nor could he see bow It was possible Mr. Trotter could see any thing it the ael which could leave the least doubt no his mind of the true spirit and meaning of it. With re, sped to the participation of the emoluments by Ist d Melville. with Mr. Trotter, there did not remain a doubt upon his mind stn that part of the case. Was it possible fin Lord Melville to go on as he did, fUr 12 years, merely far the advantage of Mr. Trotter ? he could not be blind to the rising prosperity of Mr. Trotter; he knew he originally had nothing ; and this alone should have been sufficient to rouse i his jealousy. The accommodation of 10,0001. of 20,0001., and various other considerable sums, left no: a shadow of doubt upon the subject ; and it fully Appeared his Lori ship had gone on systemati cally for 12 years together. 4le hoped it could not be said he was ACtllAte.i by any peevish motive to Lord !Melville in giving his vote in support of the I resolntione that ni ? ibt ;he wishel the House would • meet the question fairly, broadly. distinctly. and teSithost delay. With relic& to the examination of those parties bef ire the Consmissirsnero it was said they had no trial, no witnesses, and the whole was er pass evidence. Their own actions had been wit nesses against them ; they had no other adverse evidence, and the trial was as fair as any pos sibly could • • under the ciroinotauces. What more. then, could the Homo have before them than this testimony ? and, if they did not act upon it, it was perlenly ludicrous to give the Commis sioners so much trouble. It would not only now be a great inconvenience to go into a Committee, but it would be a strong mark of disapprobation against o the Commis,irmers, who of all other men were most' entitled to public thanks; and it was the greatest pride 1;e hid, that he took a share in His Majesty's Government when that power was constituted. For these reasons he should vote for the resolutions. Mr. CANNI NG opposed the resolntions; ate con sidered it would be proceeding upon iorperfea evi• dense, and the House would make an impertel deci sion if they did not firs go into a Select Committee : it would be holding out to the pnblie that they had condemned the whole, when it was only a part. With teepee to the Report itself, it contained a vast quan tity of consplez and complicated accounts, which Lord Melville had known only for the first time, when he wrote the •last letter to the Commissioners, and from the* complex and complicated accounts, his Lore Ws goat was to'be irderred, and the Com missioners' Report was to be taken for granted.— He declared, that he felt a firm conviction, that, if •the question were to come before a Committee, it would be Rands that the aft was not violated. Har ing then dierniaiied this part of the subject, he should now COMe to the imputed participation. He rc r, prated, the imputed participation, this being the fullest extent of the charge, for he had riot heard any thing like a direeoccusation to that effect. He put it then to the consciente of the Right Honoura ble Gentleman behind him (Mr. Tierney); he requested him to pat his band upon his bears, as he had recommended to others to do, and to declare, whether he is not convinced, that the vote, as pro posed; if carried, will not be considered by the world as confirming the accusation in its full ex tent ? and whether it will not go forward, not as de cisive of this or that particular point, but as cowl mehending and embracing every circumstance, however vague or general, that has been brought into discussion ? He would ask, whether, in WI, after such a vote, lord Melville would not be con sidered by the public, as found guilty of foul and corrupt malversation in office ? (A loud cry of titer! hear! hear! from the Opposition Bench, and one or two voices assented). Mr. Canning then, in continuation, said, he understood the flonoureble Gentleman who opened the business, not as having pot the ease in that broad and aggravated pant of view; and. therefore, he submitted to the House, whether the vote, if carried, would not go farther than the original mover intended i This was his meanies, and he conceived himself tonna in it. there row remained some detached changes, which he should answer. One of these was, the discontinu *nee of keeping the account in the regular way. '••• esplainedi by reference of the several Otli - uf business Many call is tue assistance it so happened, was oi Th eo ;(. 3 1 77 e1"' , 11i a e n a g l e ilY n l t P „ i t a pressure • •oral to ca • soother. %-• 4 AP' 4 • . * • upon the occasion in queition, Ott the clerks of the Nary Office were called to another, and, conse quently, obliged to leave their awn immediate busi ness undone. He agreed with the Commissioners, that it was a poor and pitiful °economy, Hitt, upon this part of the subjeet, lie must corre in rotor mto which those Gentlemen had fallen, who looked upon the Treasurer of the Navy, as a person invested with despotic power. So far from that bring the case,. he could not encrease the number of clerks, nor augment the salaries of those in the office ; hut this crime of poor and pitiful economy was not even imputable to Lord Melville ; for that Noble Lord, as well as himself, had applied for an aug mentation of the clerks' salaries. There was another detached point, upon which great stress was laid, and seemed to be considered a ma tetial feature in the case. He meant the circum stance of Mr. Trotter having drawn 1,000,0001. in one day from the Bank, and lodged it in the house of Messrs. Coutts. His Rt. Hon. Friend (Mr. l'itt) had said, that much doubt lay upon this transaction, and that it might admit of explanation. Now he should go farther. lie would undertake to explain it satisfaifforily. The loft then was, that this million was not the whole sum drawn that day. He begged the House not to be startled when he stated how the case was. The fart was, it was part of a slim of two millions and a half drawn upon the same day, viz. the 10th of April. Of this due intimation was given by the Commissioners of the Navy and Vielualling Office, stating, that the Treasurer of the Navy had that day received money for the services of these departments for six months, and giving the creditors an option of money or bills, as they should think proper. The next day, the 1 lth, these two millions and a half were offered to the persons hav ing any demands against these several deplatments, and therefore there was nothing secret or clandes tine in the transaetion. Tha next detached charge particularly concerned himself. It had been insi nuated nut of doors, in consequence of something contained in tbr Report, that he (Mr. Canning) , as TreasUrer of the Navy, had thrown ohstroltions in the way of enquiry. The Right Hon. Member here entered into a justification of his own conduet. He said he had been called upon by the Commis sioners to furnish four several Usu., but, on consider ation, he found he co !Id not furnish more than three, and even there not in the precise form re quired. These three, however, he did furnish in the most complete form in his power, from the do cutnents which his Office afinrded ; and for any fur ther information upon the subji.alt he referred the Conunissioners to the books of his department. The Report, how over, in noticn,g this transadion, and his first answer, goes on to say, " his accounts were afterwards made nut," implying, as he conceived, that they were at first refused. Having said thus much, however, he hoped he will not be suspeftcd of having Oa men any impediment in the way of an aft which, w:tile he 'nighly approved, he should re gret the more ono el tor in carrying it into execution. TI N h.: j a• explained. Mr. G. PONSONBY rose s and, in a very argu mentative and impreoice speech, which command ed great attention, and was frequently interrupted with decisive marks or approbation, spoke to the following effea--* , Sir, I am satisfied that the Right Hun. Gentleman who spoke last, thinks, as he speaks, that there is matter in this holiness, highly deserving of the nnist serious consideration of this I loose. lam sure he thinks it a question highly de serving of a Committee, for the purpase of proving the innocence and purity of Mr. Trotter; for, from all I have heard of his charaeter, I am certain, if he did net think Mr. 'Oratter pure and innocent, he would not continue him in office. I think it right, Sir, to quote the Right lion. Gentleman's conduct, in proof of hi , sincerity ; for, I am sure he would not vote for farther delay, if not from a conscious ness that It was necessary to the exculpation of Mr. Tooter. He solely would not continue him in of fice, or act in any way, merely for the purpose of ssreening an accusad person from justice. But, while I give the Right lion. Gentle Man credit for all this candour and regard for truth, there is one cir cumstance which strikes me as somewhat extraor dinary. The Right Hon. Gentleman, through the whole of his speech, uses the phrase, this charge, as if it were limited to one. Now, this as an error ; for there are several distind and separate charges com prised in the offence. For example, one of the heads of accusation is, that Lord Melville, the very man who proposed the law in question, and after wards Treasurer of the Navy, did violate the pro visions of that law, by conniving at the conduet of his Paymaster, taking the public money from the Rank, and applying it to his own private profit and emolument. Is not this a single, distinet, and sub stantive charge ? Has that any thing to do, in the remotest degree, with accommodation afforded to another office ? or with the charge of a participation of gain with Lord Melville ? Is not this, then, a disonet and separate ascusntion ? and, if so, how does it become necessary to its ascertainment, to en quire whet office received the loan ? sir tetther Mr. Trotter divided the profits with Lord is vile? The Right Hon. Gentleman. pursuing this error, says, as a reason few farther time and enquiry, it is diffi cult to decide upon complex and intricate accounts, meaning thereby the accounts of Mr. Trotter. Sir, these accounts having nothing to do with the c which I have stated: I ask the House, will ti t= after ten years of consideration and examination, enable you to say, that Lord Melville did not con tain at Mr. Trotter, his paymaster, taking money out of the Bank, and applying it fo the purposes of private emolument ? You know they will not ; and therefore, as to this charge, no delay is necessary. But it has been said, that the accounts are not corm& ; as it will appear that the sums transferred to the Bank of Messrs. Courts were only seven mil lions, aad not fifteen millions, as therein stated. Bus how will this, admitting the foe to be so, ac quit that Noble personage of corrupt connivance at the breach of the law ? Is he innocent, because he only connived at the misapplication of seven mil lions of the public money ? The neat objection urged is, that the charge against the Noble Load and Mr. Trotter is supported only by ex parte evidence. Why, this is indeed a curious objeition. The Gentlemen chum favourite terms for themselves, and then they quarrel with their own pb ra se. his indeed a)art* evi dence, but of what party 1 is it of the accuser ? No. It is the evidence of the par y accused stating !every thing he thinks psoper iu his own defence and jus tification. But it has been said, that these patties - - - 'have been hardly dealt with I they have been taken by surprise, and have had no notice of what was going forward. What ! I thought that Commission issued fir the purpose of inquiring into abuses.' with a view to correaion and amendment. Have I been mistaken, and was it then for the purpose of enquiring into the taantcendent merits and vir tues of the Treasurer and Paymaster of the Navy, and to ascertain what farther honours and rewards they deserved for their distinguished services ? These worthy parties, it now seems, were most cruelly de ceived. They attended the Commissioners, never once dreaming that abuses could have crept into their office, which the Commissioners wished to in vestigate, but fancying it was to be only an exami nation, to ascertain the degree of their merits and virtues, and confidently anticipating a brilliant re ward. Now, to come to this es pate evidence, as it is called: i.ord Melville being asked, did you per mit Mr. Trotter t draw the money from the Bank of England, and place it in his private banker's hands ? his Lordship answers, " I never gave him a direa nodosity, but I knew he did it." Now surely, it would have been more manly in his Lordship to • have said at once " I did," than to admit that he knew what was going on, and did not prevent it. It was skulking from his slaty. It was as much as sayingAo Mr. Trotter, make money of your office as you can, and 1 will proted you. And who is this Mr. Trotter, with whom Lord Melville cannot be presumed to have any fellow feeling ? Why the general agent of Lord Melville. Why, knowing tint to be aidiug in this illegal way, did he continue him in the pradice ? Can any man believe it was exclu sively for Mr. Trotter's sole benefit ? But even though it were, Lord Melville would not be the less responsible; as principal, he was as corrupt as if the act of his agent had been done personally by himself. The nest argument advanced is that no loss has been sustained by the prathce. This I can easily conceive, without giving the parties much credit for their innocence. Mr Alexandet I'i-titter is an expert calculator. He might know very well, how far he might use the public money, before the demands for it should come round upon him. It was only the common science I of every Banker, who knows when his bills are pay able, and to what amount, and regulates his issues in the mean time, accordingly. 1 his argument, of no loss to the public horn this pradiee is an extra- ordinary excuse from a Right Hon. Gentleman, so well versed in the financial system of the country. • and the laws that particularly relate to it. Does he recoiled the ad which prescribes the form of the , bill% and the mode of drawing them ? That as says, " any man counterfeiting one of these bills, shall be guilty of a felony, without benefit of Cler gy." Now, suppose an expert forger, and many such there are, bad forged a bill of 500,0001. but had the money to replace it, when it became due; and, supposing this transaaion to be afterwards tiis covered, would or could the Right Hon. Gentle man advise His Majesty to pardon that man, be cause the money WAS made good ? To excuse. therefore, a public officer, guilty of mal-pradices, upon the ground of no loss, is monstrous language. It is language that pens an end to the definite pro visions of the law, and the constitution of the Mut" of Commons. What ! no loss ? ! is then every public officer to speculate with the public money, for private profit, and, if no loss ensues, is there no criminality ? %%hat is the use of your I two, if they may he thus dispensed with at pleasure? What becomes of the House and its tildes Is the House to vote a suns of money fur one particular service, and may :toy Officer apply it to another as he pleases, and if no Liss follows, is he to rein :in guiltless? The Right I lon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) says he knows of one sum of 40,0901. that was thus applied te a purpose different from that for which it was voted, and he adds, judiciously applied, of which I h eve no doubt. I ask, however, if any re gard were paid to the votes of the /louse, why WAS not that payment afterwards disclosed, and a Bill of indemnity demanded for dies: tkat made it ? It is monstrous that any Minister should think himself justified in taking such a liberty with the public money, and not call for a Bill of indemnity. It is said that the accounts are not correa ; that the sums lodged with Messrs. Coutts ate not so great as they ate stated. This does not signify. It ap pears that Mr. Trotter took all he could. He was a good calculator ; and if he took only five millions, instead of fifteen millions, it was because he could not make free with more. It is a proof of his skill, not of his innocence, and, perhaps, it is for that skill he is reinstated in office. Great pains, we ate told, have been taken to inflame the public mind. It is said that hand-bills and publications have been circulat ed, for the purpose of exciting odium against the parties. If u, it is base. The Might Him. Gentle man opposite (the Attorney General) will feel it his duty, I am sure, to ascertain the fad, and punish these libelers; but why are we to stop the proceedings of the House, because offensive and libellous publi cations have been circulated? That was an argument which could not be relied on. The procee d ings of the Commissioners in 1782 had been referred to, but they had nothing to do with the present business. The question was, whether the Act of 178 i had been violated ? The conduct of the Commissioners' in 1782, he weed venture to say, did not sanction the conduct of Mr. Trotter. he gist of their re commendations was, that none of these public offi cers should have public money in their hands, or be exposed to the temptation of private gain, I that might end in public loss. He could - not k conceive why we should ne the Resolu tions. Can you obtain eticartrons a Commit tee, that thelaw has not been violated ? This is the first instance of an application to Parliament in a grave business for delay, without stating any grounds. • 3 you have arty ground, Why not state it? I think the Gentlemen menet aware of the consequences of of delay, if any is to take place. In such event, I think hills of indemnity ought to be brought in to restrain Lard Melville and Mr. l'rottere from leays In the conutry. The proceedings of a Committee will occupy a great length- of tame. What is to be come of Load Melville and Mr. 'Trotter in the mean while? If it shall appear that the sums have been great, it will not be fit that they should be allowed to walk the streets at large, and be at liberty to con vey in trust to their friends those funds from ethic% restitution - might to he made to the coun try. The &tight Hark Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) will therefore find it dee to his character to follow the case of & Thom itaaaboid. and take care that --- r teU ihe you ther e y er w e h n :er vel. th: a la a r mcwelea mSer eittesehEbeGfehyy"i:WiErY;,:uue should . laud. .so l ess: t w it n, ie s l ir t . o l its ani vesd a f o ir io o l it:d measure, ofwhich I own I did not approve, this Muse has received an addition of 100 members frost Ire give this night a proof of their spiiitand purity:. Pub he rumour stated that at the time of thermion many were induCed by large sums to part with their legis lature too easily,and their integrity was not free irons doubt and suspicion. They have now an opportunity of throwing from them that imputation be deeply afflieted if that n:oasure were only i s give the Moister an enercase of influence,. and not of purity and virtue. I should be ashamed to walk the streets of London, if it were the genernl opinion that the Members from Ireland were not Lit clear of corruptioo,as the Members of- this coun try, and that there was any virtue in the one fiom hich the other was shut out. Sorry sho u ld be were the two representations to meet lik e o running sores, wasting the strength and our of the body by their confluent corrup t i on. is is the first opportunity they have h a d i I a ing a proof of the virtue and integrity of niy ntrymen, and I hope they will not lose it. Yon now engaged in a war alone, wi t h out as y, with a great nation, led by the most ex ordinary man the world has produced. You have imposed heavy taxes upon the people, This Session you have followed the poor man's last luxury into his cottage ; you have taxed his salt. Will it not then be wire to spew, that if you call upon him to make great sac ifices, you will take care that they shall be administered with integrity and economy ? Is it not incumbent upon you to thew, that no rank, power, or influence, can screen a pubs, lic malefaetor ? and that the man who would abuse his trust, and misapply the hard earnings of the people, cannot be screened from the justice of the country ? When you have established this charades, ' as I hope and ti ust you will this night, you may carry on the contest as long as you may think it necessary for your honour or your safety ; but, if the amendment be adopted, you will incur a very different opinion. I put it to you, whether it will be considered as a mode to ascertain the innocence of a man, who stands convicted upon his own oath, 'or a stratagem to shelter him from punishment by delay ? I can make great allowance for private friends ship. lam sate, however, it is the:sentiment of the House that Lord Melville cannot be defended; lies I observe that nut one Gentleman has arisen this • night to speak for him, but such as has been his colleague in office. I caonot find fault with that friendship ; but sure I am. that if they cannot acquit him import oath, of what he has admitted ' upon oath, they cannot acquit him of a corrupt bleach of the law." Mr. CANNING said he did not know Mr. Trot ter when he eate:ed into office. He resit red him, because he condocted the business of the office with fidelity. The NIAS Mit of the ROLLS contended,. that there was a g:O.II deal in the ease that required investig ition iii .a Committee, and that is ithein knowing the whole race it was impossible to ascer tain the degrse of criminality. . Mr. FOX sp• Ito it comi.letable length in sup port of the original motion, declaring that Lord Melville's conduct could bo counted nothing else but I a corrupt breach of the Act; that it signi fi ed no. thing whether any of tlri money was made away with or not, it had been used for the purpose of making money, and it was imp.issible any man could win a large sum without running a great risque.— After one of the most eloquent and animated speeches, which we are sorry our time or limits will not allow us to give, he concluded by say ing, that if such a despicable character was al lowed to be at the head of our Government, what opinion must the rest of Europe have of us, and urging in the strongest znanik.r, that the resolutions should be entered into. Lord CASTLIAILAOII and Mr. WALLACS Ipeke in favour of the amendment ; Lord ANDOV La, Mr. WiL4OIIOIICE, Sir C. Voice, and Lord A. HA MILTON, fur the original motion. The House then divided upon the amendment, .when there appeared— Ayes 216.-Noes 216. The numbers being declared equal, the SPEAItIt gave his yoke in favour of the ORIGINAL MO TION. The Resolutions were then all read and agreed to without opposition, except the last, concerning which there was a long conversation, and two .Amendments proposed by Mr. Port. : the first was, ' that the words—" It was a gross violation of the law, and high breach of duty, should be left net, and" that he had aCted contrary to the Aft," inserted in their place. The second was, that "to Mr. Trotter" should be inserted after the wercds— ,, for the purpose of private interest and emolonsont." The gallery was several times cleared for a divi sion on these questions, but they were at length carried, without a division, against the Minister. Mr. FOX said if the Right Hon. Gentleman op. posits hint (Mr. Pitt) was willing to let the flues adjourn till Wednesday, he on his part would have no objeaion ; but he 'could not agree to have tint smallest business transaded there, with suclt a dis grace attached to the Administration. lrfr. PlT ' ('PlT ' ('consented to adjourn the House tilt Wednesday. Mr. WHITBREAD them gave notice, that, or. Wednesday, next, he would make a motion respea in the removal of some of His Majesty's Ministers. • gal f ie be ry lr i e t ates wa t s ent w insi d as iffi n : p o r h e r vli b le e d peo all restrained from clapping ; and some a.lfu.iiiy did clap. In the lobby, when the division was L. , .../011t there was a 'burst of opplanse. pthierectitr•uliattee. : H o A ved L ne F-2. ), 5 ) T . FIVE this morning , — t A ill di to " - "l mo e r d fo s w t ~....-0, vo The House of COMTISM have, by theft Vote of Ibis 0 10$1. , cloathed themselves with Immortal 001.0114 and dew Wee fur the smutty of the cows', sad happiwebb of des be , than twenty 'Worms mould atehicets. ?rip tl 7-- ke Te.teaser C" . ,dared*l) I per Cent. dome's stl Muskiest! N00N:..-see:taail by dFt)liat 111 VMS () , . ' . . Wrch street, St.. Clement ~ &Di published sy JO RiDF.It, at the (Mice, No. Is, sack of St. ChM Church, Strand, where Owlets dar did Myer, ke• WO' eibl be dell attended Sib. ;'~'t~e. I ~ 1 ......: ....', .~ ;4 1 cont wadi 1C.11,1 b•IZ Pp ai P a tl'A N °PI Nola y•ar effte Sand Snit •hu Mal •1 OM •k• :711 CiP .~ • 'W um the] ,t t , l I If, tl