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. esigularly upon the main subjee, moved, that the late Resolution of the House respelling the Commit. tee appointed to consider of the matters alleged in charge against NIT. Justice Fox be read; and -...150 certain Afts of Parliament. which he conceived to • . bear upon the general subject; which being read accordingly, his Lordship rose, and in the course • of a speech of considerable Imgth, replete with le gal and historical reference and detail, observed to the follow ; Wed :—lle was prove sted by a do mestic misfwrone from attending the earlier discus sions upon tne case of Iklr. o lustice Fox ; were it otherwise, possibly the necessity of the steps he was about to recommend would have been obviated. The mode of moceeding hitherto adopted was• one which he highly disapproved in other points of view, , i beside those of its being produdive to the parties of great expence, dclav, and vexation. It would be i . necessary, in • e.ne degree, to tread back the steps they had taken; but did it appear to be consistent -With the honour, the dignity, and, above all, the corneae's of th.iir Lordships proceedings, he thonzlit there could he no hesitation to do so. What E" •3 to propose for the adoption of their Lord 1./ : r•osiLi be resolved into various propositions: :.tad jest vie.:.s, tor the appointment of a Committee to search for precedents of cases of any charge brought Forward of hig h crimes and misdemeanors against any individual by a Peer of the realm, upon his own . ' T. - mortal statement of faits, &c. ; and how far it is coosiet• it with any law or statute, or usage of Parliament, that House can proceed upon matters 1 so originated, unless upon matter of Record, or by Petition, or entertained as matter of privilege. Secondly, that such Committee should search for precedents of any such charges being made against any of His Majesty's Judges, previous io toe Aft of William 111. Also to enquire into proceedings adopted on the ground of Petitions, al l-ging charges of high crime and misdemeanour ; and also whether charges preferred against any per t son proesseding from individual assertion, can be, under the operation of the Statute of Henry IV. i regulatly or legally entertained or ailed upon in that House? In considering the general subjeft, their Lordships would have to/consider what change has really been made in the situation of the Judges, W. the Aots applying to them ; and, with resped to the particular Cal* before them, whether, with re ference to the Ads he alluded to, such a charge could, regularly and properly, be made in that ' p i House ? In arguing against the corredness and pro- pri-ty of the proceeoings'which had hitherto taken place, his Lordship made frequent references to the i provisions of the Ad of Fleou-y IV. and adverted to several cases which had obtained, of charges being made, and of the line of proceeding adopted upon them, ohich, be contended, bore him' out in saying, that sto Is proceedings could tot, properly, originate in that House. Referring to the Ads I respelling the Judges, he contended generally, that to an upon principles contrary to what he had laid down, writil f he to place the Judges in a different situation from that of any of then' fellow subjects; the benefit of a full and free administration of jus tice ; benefits which the application of the provision I • quarts dim re bens g AAA e r int did not ex thole them. His Lordship argued with great ability against the pro f priety and correaness of the • proceedings hitherto adopted, in the particular instance before them ; and, i that cases of the kind could not regularly originate 1 in that House. He referred to some prmiinent con , siderations its the particular case, some of the charges hem:: of a very weighty and serious nature, and which were made on information given by a third person. Besides the great considerations of public and private justice in the case before them, his °Ned in coming fotu'ard was to adord the House a regular ground, and the necessary informa tion, previous to their deciding upon a case, in every point of view, of such great importance. He con cluded by moving his first proposition, viz. .. for the appointment of a Committee for the purposes above stated." The LORD CHANCELLOR quitted the wool sack : he war fully impressed with the importance of the subjeft, and hoped the decision of the House upon the case would be such as to conduce to the great ends of public and private justice. With I reaped to the proceedings hitherto adapted, whatever ettor or mistake might have prevailed, it was, at least as far as he was concerned. tound-4 upon a tender regard for the situation and charafter of the individual in qfiestionrand he hoped the con clusion of the bminess would turn nut so as more closely to attach to him that very r.s,3edable clia railer he had hitherto preserved. With resped to the proposition of his Noble Friend, be thought the appointment of such a committee at best un necessary, and it would only tend to a continuance of that system of delay, expence, and vexation, which the Noble Lord had himself complained of Were they of opinion that the matte: s complained ef in the petitions were not such as ought, under all the views and bearings of the case, to be proceeded upon in that House, it was their bounden duty, more especially to the public at large, to declare so at once by a short vote. The Noble and Learned Lord argued against the appointment of the committee principally on the ground of its being unnecessary. There were no cases of the kind since the Aft of Settlement ; and, previous to that period, they were already in possession of such precedents as were necessary to enable them to form a proper decision With a reference to some points, conneeted with the particular case nefore them, he observed, that care should be taken that the Judges were not placed in a worse situation,with respeft to the criminal justice of the country, than any of their fellow subjects. Dis p•ising of this pert of his subjeft, he argued alai , st the appointment of the desired Committee, as tending to protrad delay, to induce vexation, and to in crease expence. IVliatever opinion might be enter tained of the proceedings already adopted, he should never repent of that lenity which their Lord ships, in their discretion, thought proper to shew, arid which he had implored them to interpose in the way of an examination, previous to any pro- I ceedings, at the Bar of the House, being adopted upon the case. i Lord GRENVILLE could not bring his mind to concur with the Noble and Learned Lord, that fur ther investigation upon this subjeft was unnecessary. He had expressed his opinion at an early stage of the business, and, whatever might be the law 4 Par liament, every consideration, both of wisdom and justice, called upon the House to deliberate upon the question. His Lordship insisted on the necessity of * • searching for precedents, and adverted to the case of Eirl of Bristol, and several which he from A the Eiri others, . hatilohked into, and t which his Lordship's mind had, he said, derived great assistance. The course which the }louse was then pursuing, he considered a direct violation of the law, and of the fundamental principles of the Constitution; the proceedings, so far as they had gone, were entered upon the Jour nals of the House, and was it to be said that a veil was now to be drawn over those proceedings, and •what had been entered upon record, handed down '"as precedents to posterity, for their example? It was impossible therefore to put off this question, without some farther investigation; their were ample pre cedents in the House to authorise it to gn into such investigation, and the arguments stied against it, by Noble Lords on the other side, were not founded either upon law, upon justice, or upon principle, but were merely a detail of minute distinctions whollyun worthy consideration ; he, therefore, trusted their Lordships would be allowed to receive that assist ance from precedents, and that a Committee fur that purpose might he appointed. Lord HAWKESBURY insisted that the several precedents adverted to by the Noble Lord on the other side, were not at all applicable, and wholly ir relevant to the present question. Previous to the Aift of Settlement, the .1 J,;es were liable 1,, be re. moved at the pleasure of the Crown, as wit as any of His Majesty's Ministers ; but this Aa was made with a view to public security. His Lordship went into a long explanation of this Aft, and the tenure by which the Judges held their appointment, which was in every respea a freehold tenure, but so far conditional, !with respect to impeachment before either House of Parliament. It was important that Judges should hold their offices for a long duration, and it was the duty of Parliament, when any com plaint was exhibited against them, to at with more caution than in any other case whatever. With re speet to die expediency of a Committee to enquire and examine precedents on the subjeCt, he contend ed it would only throw false lights upon the busi ness, as those very precedents, he repeated, were wholly inapplicable, and would be produltive of considerable inconveniencies. His Lordship then took a reuospett of the proceedings, from the first Petition presented by the Noble Marquis to the pre sent moment, which he considered were commenced in the proper mode; they were continued with re gularity, and every step taken throughout the bu siness was perfetly analogous to the propriety of their proceedings, to the fundamental principles of the Constitution, and contormable with all prece dents upon this subject; he the: efore considered these precedents wholly unnecessary to be acted upon oil the part of Government. In cases of impeach ment, more doubts and dif f iculties arose than in any other way whatever, and he here adverted to die ease of Mr. Hastings, where so many questions arose between both Houses of Parliament. In the present case, the course which had been adorted, he insisted, was the regular. mode, in which no diffi culty had as yet occurred. Four of the charges had been fully investigated, and so far reported. The merits of the pants he did not then mean to go into; but his Lordship expressed great anx iety for a conclusion upon this sublet, whine the very important character of a Judge of the land was called in qaestion. He did not wish to see the ACI of Settlement mode a dead letter....as he considered it most essential to the security of public justice, of the Constitution of the country, and of the Monar- . city itself. Upon those grounds his Lordship said he should vote against the Motion. Earl SPENCER was still of the same opinion as formerly, that the proceedings were net regular, and he was much afraid the Journals of the Ilona, contained something, which, being contrary to the justice of the country, th e i r L or dships would find it neccssury to do away. It had beenutged, as an hr guinent for the peseta mode of proceeding, that the charge did not euntaiti any thing of a criminal nature. In answer to that, he would ask, seas not sedition a crime, and had not the Learned Judge been charged with u:tering seditious words Against the Government fiorn the bench where he presided? Upon the whole, he thought that precedents should be examined into, and that this course c',uld not be the cause of any great delay. Lord MULGRA VE said he would not delay the House, by endeavouring to add to the able argu ments which had been before stated, but he could not avoid giving his realism), for opposing this mo dim. It was a new power given to the House, in conjunEtion with the Commons, to inspect t!w Judges of the land, since they had been made independent, and held their high offices QMMIN disi on) that time to the present, nn case had occurred, and therefore it was perfectly impossible any pre cedent could be found on the subjeft. Heavy charges had been exhibited against the Learned Judge, who seemed anxious to have them investi gated. He did not think, therefore, the House should enter into resolutions to set aside their oru, ceedings, as it would he the cau s e of delay, and, in the mean tisisartha over whom such charges were hanging, wourTallowed to administer the justice of the country. Ile concluded by sayiug that, for his part, he would be happy to vote ftr any proper measure which would bring the matter soonest to a conclusion, but he did not think this would have that effea. Lord CARLETON entered into an explanation of several Aas of Parliament on the suhjea. and concluded by expressing his wish that the examina tion should take place. Lord ELLEN BOROUGH rose and said, that highly as he respelled the opinion of his Noble and Learned Friend, he could nut help differing from him on the present que-tion. He:hought that in an entire new case, as this confessedly was, and when the House was called on to decide on an Al of Parliament that had never yet been aged upon or brought into consideration—an AR of Pal liament of such immense importance t every subjea of the empire, because it went to no less a point than the removal of the Judges from their places, he thought it was necessary their Lordships should have the ad van of the opinion of the twelve Jud g e s . H e thought also, that, in a case like this, their Lord. ships could not proceed with too much caution ; and, therefore, that they ought to have the ad vantage of all the precedents which our ancestors had made the rule and guide of their confine, an tecedent to the time of the Ad of Settlement. He well remembered the time when he was obliged in duty, in the line of his profession, to object to the . proceedings Of that House, when they went from thence to the place below, Ckay by day, for seven long years (alluding to Mr. Hastings's trial, in which be was counsel), yet he was more pleased to see even such a proceeding, according to the esta blished rules and customs of the country, than lie would be to have witnessed an attempt to enter upon any measures, which should seem like an innovation on the established laws and customs of the land. It had been said, their Lordships could not be certain that the Commons House of Parli. .nt would ex ercise their privilege of impeachment ; and, there fore, that House ought to proc, ea by way of ad dress. He could not, however, suffer himself to think, that any subjeft whatever of such importance as the present, could be agitated in that House, so as that it should be apparent it deserved impeach ment, but that the Commons would immediately tak- it up and prosecute it accordingly. It had been said, that proceeding by way of address was not a criminal charge; but he thought otherwise. ,Was not the removal of a man from so lii4ll and dis tinguished an offii.e as that of Jo a criminal charge ? Was not divesting bins of honour, rank, and high official station, the stroi.gest mark of a criminal charge ? In proof of this, his Lordship refeited to the cases of Lionel, Earl of Middle. sex. and Lord Bacon, who were, on addresses, re moved from their offices, and rendered incapable of ever more voting in Parliament. His Lordship thought, therefore, that the House should consult all such precedents as could give the least insight into the case, and as such, would vote for the Motion. 1 he LORI) CHANCELLOR, in explanation, said his Noble and Learned Friend had mistaken his meaning, as to the opinion of the twelve fudges. He bad not at all pledged himself on that point . On the contrary, he did not know, if it was, b• ought forward, but he should vote in favour of it. Lord AUCKLAND :Aid a few words in reply : when the question being called tor, a division took place—For the Motion, 17—Against, 29—MAjo rity 12. ‘N hen strangers were readmitted, we found I.ord AUCKLAND concluding a notice, that he would, on Monday next, make another Motion on the same subjed ; and, on his Lordship's Mo tim, the Lords were ordered to be summoned fog that day. The Duke of CIA R F.NCF. gait notice, that he would on Tuesday move for some additional papers relative to the Report of the Naval Commissioners, and the House was ordered to be summoned.—Ad journed at Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS 'Me C. BRADSHAW took the oaths and his seat, a Mem • bee for the Borough of Honitini, in Devnoshire. Sir J. ANDERSON brought in a Rill for regulating the halting awl pike or Bread in the Metropolis, and within the Balls of Mortality, which was read a first time Sir JOHN ANDERSON also stated that he wall solicited br the Master Printers of the Metropolis, to present a Petition, the subsiance of which was to set forth, that the journerMen Coinrordors and Pr . , 1111011 had been usually paid .n proportion to .t mile, which had iicen ..as red upon In the rtar IMP), when isiilol were at a were advairood price; but that now, when the Articles of oecemary consumption were snitch Lww, the Pressmen had insiiited upon an unreasonable increase of wages; arid, by Reclining to work upon the tlillai terms, had suspend col the plibtication of period., al and other works, both in tilers and coition , to the great injury of the Mager , ' who were rei dated to the sec unity of haring reentiem to the assistance of persons whose apprenticeship hail not s=pied, and were not duly qualified Imlay. The Petition prayed fur the aid of Par liaaracaq ill enabling them to employ, while necessary, work. men of shot description. Ref.rred to • Committee. On the motion of Cation.' BAGWELL, the Rill fir the better regulating of the Irish EleMina Laws was ordered to be read a second time, rin Monday mitt. 1.0“1 JOIN TiIYNNE's bides:inky Bill was read a wend time, committed, and onle,-.1 to Ibe reported to morrow ; as was also , on the motion of Mr. Fusser, the Irish Sugar Expor tattoos Draw-hack Duty Bill. THE MILITIA. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that he hoped the Motion given notice of respelling permission for Militia soldiers to be enlisted into the Regulars. would be deferred, for the purpose of giving way to . the Irish Tax Bills, which remained for discussion. These Bills were only brought in on Saturday last, a day on whieir it was very unusual for the House to meet at all, and proceeded upon yesterday, when most of the Irish Members were celebrating the an. niversary of St. Patrick. But whatever might be the power of that Saint in expelling from that coun try all serpents and venomous animals, he was not supposed to possess equal influence in what regarded the taxes. He declared hiMself to be adverse horn some of these measures, but had not yet the oppor tunity of taking the sense of the House upon them. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then said, that for the purpose of forwarding the Orders of the Day, and the other business before the House, ht should defer his promised Motion re spelling the Militia to Thursday next, IRISH CATHOLICS. Mr. FOX gave notice, that he shottld; on Man day next, present a Petition from the Roman Ca tholics of Ireland. MR. FORDYCE. Mr. CREEVEY introdeced the Motion, of which he gave notice, by referring to the Report on the Table, which stated that Mr. Fordyce bad been a Jetxulter to the amount of 14,0001. and upwards, of the public money, as ascertained by a Comm•ttee in 1794, notwithstanding which be still retained the capacity and office of Receiver General of the Crown Rents in &Inland till 1709. In 1794, after having been snund a defaulter to the sum of NO or 90,0001. he tit ;de an a.signment of his property tor the payment , if this debt, but was at the same time suffered to retain the possession of the property, and since the year 1797 there appeared to be repaid to die public no more than 40001. whi.b also came out of the public funds, Ind was allowed to Mr. For dyce for the survey which he made of some lends in Scotland. Thus, for the space of 22 years. did that Gent. remain debtor to the country in the sum of at least 80,0001. and the objet of the Committee he had to move fur, would be to enquire why the Lords of the Treasury, or the Lord Advocate, had not taken care that this money should be tepaisi out of the pro duce of Mr. Fordyce's estates in Scotland ? He was ready to allow, that much of this failure had proceed ed from misfortunes, probably unforeseen ; but he wished to know why this indulgence was extended to Mr. Fordyce in particular, and why there was *not a more •irop.trtial distribution of such kind ness? Exclusively of his estates, Mr. Fordyce also still enilied a very lucrative office, and he could not well account for that unasual sympathy, ~~. .~►`' which could induce the present Ministers ,to appoint a man, who had been himself for twenty-two years a defaulter, toan a ceo d f m tr i t n i i st .t , r a a n ti d on e , ven w o h f en ref ioli John ror" Cavendish ringthe virtuous filled the office of Chankellor of the Exchestaer, Mr. Fordyce was dismissed from his office ; and, !hough much indulgence was then shewn him, it could hardly be contemplated by that administration, that he, with such a debt unilaid, should ever be a person sele.fted for re gul.:ti!.g t h e civil affairs of the navy. Upon the last sulijets, as connened with his motion, it could not he a/lied, y that lie.shinilii.be altogether silent. The plugs," of the Commissioners instituted under the authei of Parliament, appeared to be hitherto successful • and one Hon. Admiral (Markham) d ec l ared it as' his opinion, that the effect of pursuing their inqui ries would be to save case-thud of the customary naval expenditure. Since that, a new Crown Com mission, of which Mr. kordyce.was a member, had been instituted, and to that, he believed, were trans ferred the institutiiin and objeft of what WAS ;pito/ forward by the Parliamentary Commissioners. a that was the case, it Nits surely in the power of Mi nisters to commit it to better hands thau Mt. ra. dyce, whose existence was rtiercly at the wiii s 4 Crown, and could not ha considered as the assi.t upright and rigid servant of the public The ermrc Commissioners were left to their s wn el. ther to adopt or to negative the priceedings and suggestions of the 'others. That subjcit was ivell deserving of consideration—and thoegh he shouU say nothing for the present, which . shoold h ave say u tendency to Create oissenons or Jealousy be twm , the two Commissioners, he -shoul d hereafter submit it to Parliathent, whether it might be neeessry for them to assert the superiarity of that power, whii-1, they had, in a former instance, delegated ? Hotly; concluded with moving. !! that a Committee he ap pointed to inquire inio.tbe sum Styki.lil. alleged to 1)- due by John Fordyce, Esq.; into the securities given for the payment of the same ; the sinus as. sieved for such payments ; he progress . made i• to ther liquidation by the Lord. 0 the Treasury, or tie Lord Advocate of Scotland," :Ste. The CHANCF.LLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the motion not.v assumed a ihape very differeut fro otat .he initat have expe4nl. It was allowed, on ell• bands, that the Fituatios is which Mr. Fordyce fantod himself enveloped, p ro , seeded more from misfortune than ken fault.-- When, in confrere!. nee of the failure •of others, he was found to faian arreer; the Lords of the f ree . sury, who then dismissed him from office. del net disqualify hen, nor impeach hint with any thing, not even the slightest imputation. which could head to the supposition that he was unworthy of true.— After that dismissal, he wail appointed to the fel portant and habre ions office of one of the Centruie. sirners to ascertain the landed cl e Oes of the c t „... 0 . The report of that commission fooved aerie& practical reform whin the exertions of Mr . - For. dyce had produced in the landed revenue of 04 Crown, be augmenting it from 6.0301. to 40,0P0L and may shortly be computed to e:Nee an minted income of 100,0001. It should also be rememlored, that his ,mistortunes were productal by the failure of three agents, one of whom, ire particular, was no: of his oleo choice. 'but we, strimoly recommended to hie% 'by the Marquis of Itockiiiitivin. Ague/Ter circunsoar.ce was the failure of the hate Mr. F.e. dyce. the hanker, who. at the time he kept mency for the Gentleman now in question, and wli.) e..s then Receiler General of the Crown Rents in Soot land, Wes considered to he as solvent and sate as any other banker in Eogland. Looking at the Fermat transactions in the order in eleich thy took place, he mild emoider the case of Mr. ford} se only as one of acknowledged hardship, owing to the failure of intermediate agents. As no balance had since that time rem.ained in his hands, there could be no ground for alleging that any interest was ac. truing. It was upon these considerations abet so much forbearance was shown towards that Gentle. man, for e rigid mods of proceeding could only serve to ruin him, and deprive the public of ulti• mate repayment, which was now pretty neatly cot tin. He then stated the different sums of arrow which Mr. Fordyce lied di.cherged, sad calculated that, before the end, there would be paid no less than SO,OOOl. As to the appointments he sieeeolo rained, it was tinreiwinieble m expeet that Covetto ment should depriee the puhlic of the atektiowledge ed talents and oxperieiace of such a man, merely bee cause Ise happened to be, by misfortune, a defaulter. The salary which he had for the survey of the forests, and other s.rvices, went in liquids tine of his debt yn the public, which could net, per. hspa, be otherwise %ors easily accomplished. He saw no occasion fur a Canomittee to enquire into e•het may as well be laid before the Hoes: s .s Motion from any Member. • oe an Address : • ; Majesty. It was an easy m utter th ANC ..1(41;1, • thentic documents, the deficiency of ton. For - - is 1;94, and the !.e,:it , itics he gaeu t i,r the pee- e. 1.1 the helences. After all, however, it m; :.t be thoueht a hardship that this Gentlemen shoos should be stied for the balances due by Agents, tofu,' of whom. as he had already mentionol, were. not of hit own appointment. Amongst the securities given at the eersoal of the failure was a #tr. • at ever he. longing to Mr. Fordyce, in th e I s land of Gre.t.:cia- The estate WA., at that time, excee.ongly produk • tire, but the House well knees that a celentity had since fallen on that Island, which induced Parli ament to advance money, by loan, to the merchanto proprietots, and planters cooc. roof in it; the terms of the repayment of which* were ruccessively tended by different ads of the legislators. Not• withstanding all these disaopointutents, Mr. Ford} erpeetest shot tly to be enabled to offer fresh secure ties for the ultimate extiadien of the debt. With . resped to his appointment in the naval commission, he saw at- necessity for making any justilLation.-- 1 here was nothing in the eonduet of Mr 1. or dyce, or in any report before the House, which threw any slur upon his character. He had been for sixties years employed in an office of great trust ; he was since appointed in the same commiesien frith Sir Chat lea Middleton, the Comptionee of the Neer, who was desirous of assistance in au office ‘"thihi c never was meant to supersede or contruul the oteito rity of the petliarnartitery commission ; hut, en Itie contrary, to digest the best mode of pradilsalli are eying , he suggestinns and recommendations of,. Liitoo commissions into execution. For h;: urn p:rat lie wished to remind the House that he :- ..:1 exeressed any opinion hostile w the coistatissioi - tete of woe; to' ters, • chlt! ` such In some of pure agent, runt, blaule the all tioi prn . dui . unifor which p►opo hands tamill Mr. adync, of the could tified I thing them, ef i clined accoui •hich hisyri tioa tb ai atioth Mi of hi% by in, forty; of the dayfi Th the re Mr ins 1 Sir 4hit to be to he sin , I whiel have si .iii lie ht. pede TI WaS Tb Duty rall y ctivei