The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1826-03-07 00:00:00

He (Mr. Home) thought every means ought to be used to ascertain bow Pm- Mr. Gourley was in a situation that required hurt to be kept in durance, or whether he was insane or not at this mo t tle? a Sir FRANCIS BUR DETT modem, or two olutercitions, but hi a tone so inaudible that we could scarcely catch their purport. We underatood the Honourable Baronet to say that he did not con. eider that it would hearty admission oo the part of Mr. °outlay of tits insanity, if be were to enter into the recoguirance which the law required of him foe his future good behaviour. Ile conceived it so be aunty impoasible that a compliance with that which the law demanded of every person wbo had broken the peace would be an admirsioa of the charge of insanity. After a few words from 3lr. CHOKER the pedtiort was brought p. read, and ordered to be rioted. COUNTRY BANKS. Mr. H riff E proiehted a petition from William Martin, a poen lathe town of Seven Oaks. in Kent. rt.e petitioner stated, that ea the rth February last he tendered to • bank in that neighbour hood eighteen one pound notes and two five pound notes, issued by them, to be exchanged for coin of the realm ; that the bankers gave him Bank of England notes for them; that be requested to bare the coin of the realm, but the bankers neither gave him soar- Deigns or the country notes back again; that lie applied to a Justice of the Peace, requesting that he would issue a werrant to compel the har.ken to pay the petitioner the amount of the notes in coin, or to deliver up the notes he had left with them ; that the Justice de clared he bad no means of giving the petitioner redress; thar a abort time afterwards the bankers sent the petitioner 211 sovereigns, and wanted him to give up the Bank of England notes fur them, bat the petitioner tensed to do so; and the petitioner prayed that the House would take the subject into consideration. Ile (Mr. H.) had thought it right to write to the bankers to know how far nous stated in the petition were true, and they had in their answer admitted that the facts were true. The question *as, whether his Majesty's subjects ought to be placed in such a situation as not to be able to Muth' the coin of the realm in exchange for that which his M.ijetity's:tlinisters sanctioned as being pan of the currency of the country. Ile understood the currency to mean that which was exchangeable at all times into the gold coin of the realm. The piano of the petition wee so completely consistent with his views, that be could not conceive any reason whitey(' why his Majesty's fdralmers should net proceed to fulfil their promises of placing the emulation of the country, particularly as regarded thw If. end 21. own, upon such • footing, so as that every banker should, *by, hit instance, after the first of January next, be called upon to make deposits to meet the extent of their issues of notes of that amount. By a reference to a Return upon the table of the House, it would tippler that no less than 150 country banks had failed since the veer 1816. He put it to the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chilli mbar of the Exchequer) whether he would run the risk of similar oorsequences ensuing from the longer continuance of the present system. It was too touch to suffer the people of this country to bare their property thus havirded, when it was in the power of his 31inisters to prevent it by the aduption of a most prac -060,4; and safe measure. The petition was then brought up and read ; and on the question dia• :t be laid on the table— Mr. A. BAKING said if the issue of one and two pound notes were to be continued, he should agree with the lion. Member I Mr. Hume) that the House ought to matte sonic provision for tie more espy means of compelling payment of them. But as Os House had come to a resolution to throw out of circulation the small notes, he thought there was no necessity for making any alteration in the law on the subject. Sir F. Iif'KI►ETT, in a very low tone of voice, expressed his doubts whether the country was aware of the difficulties that would arced a too sadden return to a metallic currency. The subject required a great deal of consideration ; fur his own pelt, he did man know whether It was at all wise at expedient to return alto. gather :n a metallic currency. H. was of opinion that the petitioner, an.l dame who were so desirous to resort to that system, bad au aufbriently reflected on the subject ; it would in the greatest degree affect the country, from the h4diest to the lowest Individual is it. He was very strongly inclined to oppose the petition being received. ..—...-. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had stated, when he introduced his Bill, that he did not conceive It poesible. in any state or the currency, to provide for every improbable difficult) ' that the ingenuity of man might suggest. In the cage alluded to,' the petitioner steted that he suffered no inconvenience from Ow ceeduet of the Bank. In the first place he got Bank of England Dotes for the country notes. and 21 hours afterwards the banker actually sent him sovereigns. hut which he thought proper to dc. dine receiving. Ile (the Chancellor of the Eschequer) could nnt onviceive any possible process which that House could establish Vast could be 60 expedithitis as to compel payment within 24 hours atter the refusal had been made. In the particular case the peti:ioner evidently hail no desire foe sovereigns, because the neat day he refused to take them when sent to him. It was quite Impossible that any practical measure could be adopted by Per. Lenient to meet every Instance like this. The petitioner had car. 'Airily not suffered any harm by the sffusal; and he (the Chan. osilor of the EKchequer) had great objection to give that summary wet of protection asked fir in comes of this kind. dlr. W. S3IITII said this petitioner had obtained the whole object lie had in view, which was, to nava the opportunity of pre wonting a petition to this House. As be I suffered no inconve- Meta from the ciecumstatices stated to • petition, lie (Mr. limith) thought it afforded no ground for an patliamentary mea. wil i sure to be founded upon. Mr. CALCRA FT made a few observations on the necessity of 14 icisters upholding the credit of the paper currency, without which it vas quite impossible to have an adequate supply of cir. oeletion in the country. After A few words from Mr. HU3IE, The petition was ordered to be printed. • CURRENCY OF IsCOTLAND. . . ..... Mr. HUME presented II petition front the ir.corporated trades of "Totland, praying that the currency of that country should not Le altered. . ..... /Hr. II EATHCOTE WWI of opinion that gre... injury was done by the constant di.cussion of this subject; it hot only the atect of exciting more agitation. The petition was ordered to lie on the table. REVISION OF THE CORN LAWS. Mr. HUME next presented a pet ion from certain weavers in `fseorlsnd, praying for a revision of the Corn Laws. The Honour_ ale Member said that the corn duty was a brea.l tax in every sense se the word, and notwithstanding all the theories which were a'o:tiad on the subject, he could never he persuaded that cheap !weal was nix a blessing to the working clashes. Mr. BEN r.T T (Wiltshire) said it never, should be forgotten eta: it was the Corn Laws which enabled the limit-holder to {_ay tie present heavy taxes for the support of the state. It was these lsws which enabled him to pay the poor rates, the church rate. the county rate, and the other heavy imposts to w hichl the country was sisbjected. In his opinion, if the country got rid of me Corn Laws, trey should also get rid of the national debt, the poor rates, the enur.ty rates, and the various other burthens which now pressed so Ist:astir. . . . . Thipetirinn was ordered to be printed. Sir It. WILSON twee to present a petition from the boot and shoe-makers, praying fur a revision or the Corn Laws. The Hon. Member commenced by disclaiming any intention of uttering Sony Moog diorespeettal of the landlords of England, whom he he. Feted to be a most benevolent body of men. but like all other Xibutscs, when their immediate interests were affected, they were pectll 6 3rly sensitive. The landlords were impressed with nu idea test touching the Corn Laws would be like opening Pandoriet box, and would let loose all kinds of calamities upotf the country. In this vier he differed, and when he observed that notwithstanding the repeal of duties and of taxes to a large amount, things were not improving in proportion ; and also observed that the wages of labour was reduced from 20s. to ss. a week. and in some cases were less. 'lnlet bread was in the country 2d. • lb. and in town 211. lb. he thought it was time to make some change in the system. The rime principles should be applied to tin corn growers as to the traders and menufactitrera. Ills wish wan that the growers should Om a fair remuneration, at the same time that the labourer should be insured a sufficient subsistence. Those who voted in support of liberal principles on the discussion relating to the silk question, t=ees bound to the House and the country. end stood pledged to vote far an alteration of the Corn Laws. lie did not know what fine Ministers Intended to adoot with Teepee( to the matter, but it wain.: induce the people to make all the sacrifices they were called cue to make the mare readily, were they COUSCious that Government lbeant to take this important subject into its own hands. Mr. (7ALCRA FT said that it should never be left out of view when d:scitostng this subject, that the traders derived their greatest advantages front the opulence of the landed proprietors. The peti. Cum presented by the lion. Member tot Soctluwark, Sir R. Wilson, was from the hoot and ohnematera. Now, he believed the price of a pair of hoots. such as were usually worn, with a pair of moderate sours. would purchase nearly a quarter of corn. It was too hard fir the petitioners to ask corn at a very low trice when they charge sa high a price tier boots. Whilst on this subject lie would observe Ilia: bread was much dearer than it ought to be consistent with the price of corn. lie did not Aar whether this was attribut able to the nr the baker; butt he nssertcd it was the fact. Ile understood his lion. Friend (Sir It. Wilson) to insinuate that there had been no reduction in rents since the war. The fact was, that since the war rents were reduced full :al per cent. Like his lion. Friend he was for applying the same principles to the corn grovrit as to the manufacturer and trader; but he felt that at pre sent we could only approach the principle. 4 Itear,) Mr. Alderman WO( tit said the petition presented by his Hon. Friend (sir It. %Filson) was entrusted to hint, and in his absence his 11m. Friend had undertaken to present It. Tile petitioners had nothing to do with the spurs alluded to by the lion. Member for Warehatn, and he could assure the House that the profits of the hont.makers were small. extremely small, when compared with the amount of taxes and the price of cern. The lion. Member may partbe price of a quarter of corn for a pair of harts if he purchased them at en expensive shopkeeper's; but he could recommend him a an expensive shop, and he believed there never was a more just ' , eine!: titan that now before the House. Sir. M. W. It litl.sy wished the ilon. Member for Southwark wouPi let hint know who those lucky landlords were whose rents had not been redruced since the war. (Hear, hear.) They had fallen it least to the extent stated by the Hon. Member for Ware. ham. and mug fall still lower if the measures recommended should be adopted. When the Promissory Notes Bill came into opt:tenon and a revision of *Corn Laws toolfplace, rents must inevitably fall to a treat est if what the petitioners wished came to be acted on, they asisliN 10 forget that their wages must be diminished, yet this was the weloomoary consequence. In his opinion a regular protecting price was best far the country. lie was sorry to see Hon. Members take theme opportunities, when presenting petitions, of throwing out a side wind insinuation whist the country gentle. men. Such a MUM he thought was illiberal, and be hoped that the character and consequence of an English country genuentan would Doi suffer by such insinuation& Colonel DAVIES eseconmended retrenchment as the best thing for the country. When he aw country gentlememeome down to support Ministers in every species of extravagance, he felt pleased thud a revision of the Corn Laws was called tor, end that the Pre ; [ciliary Note Bill was to come Into operation, because he believed thou measures would open the eyes of the country gentlemen, and prove to them bow bad a course they had taken. An Hon. MEMBER, whose name we did not learn, and who was indistinctly heard In the gallery. argued upon the propriety of reducing the protecting duties, and reinuneraUng the Lnded pro. ptietors. Sir E. KNATCH.BULL said it was stated by the Hon. Mem ber foe Wareham (Mr. Calcraft) that the average price of corn was Ow a quarter. This statemeet was incorrect. the average price was only Wis., which was • material fact for the country to he in pneireesion of. Ile did not perceive that an alteratiom of the Corn Laws could produce any of those advantages which some persons argued would result from it. Something like a cestainty as to the average would be most useful, as it was well known lino much the averages had varied within the last seven years. Ile believed what had been said as to the unreasonable difference between the price of corn and that of bread was true. A very email part of the price of the quartern loaf catne into the packet of the land lord, probably not more than one penny in the price of the quartette. Mr.V. WILSON did not mean to calumniate the landlords; I but when they were for applying free and liberal principles to trade and commerce, he hoped they would be consistent. and not evade the application of thoimprinciples to what immediately con cerned their own Interest. Sir F. IWRI)ETT differed with those gentlemen who depre. ruled discussion on this subject, unless it was introduced in a formal shape. When it estpe In such a shape, Honourable Mem. hers echo were very capable of affording impertent informatidn ab stained from doing so, because they felt it Irksome to enter upon a formal discussion. Strong prejudices prevailed upon this sub ject. Tee distreases throughout the country were attsibuted to the corn laws, whilst those distresses depended upon principles alto gether different. The practice of calling out for low bread, though very natural, was a very great delusion, fur could any one Lena. gine that prises could remain as they are it bread was a great deal cheaper ? (Hear). The manufacturers were apt to claim com passion for their unfortunate workmen when discueeingihle sub. legit. But what did the manufacturers expose on the revision of the torn laws? Why, that corn should be lowered. This was the 'effect which the proposed measure would have upon the distressed manufacturers. Tite statements made on this subject were all fqunded upon most delusive pi inciples. at the sane time that every one must lament a state of things prevailing in any past of the kingdom, in which • man could not maintain lams& by ho. nest industry. It would be of course the wish of every ore that die labourer could afford to have • fowl in his pot every day of the week, but still the principle from which Improvement was expected 11,714, he repeated, not only delusive but mist hierous The effect of this was, that a spirit of animosity sae re cited between the coutdry gentlemen and the ma. nutaclunng and trailing interest*. Now, in Ids opinion, it was a monstrous ab.nrdity to suppose that the manufacturers and mar. chants could flourish if the landed interest was poor. Ile hoped, until the qaestien came fairly under discussion, every means would be avoided of tementing jealousy between the country gentlemen and the trading interests. Although he had the happiness to be one of the former body, he could say, lie thought impartially, that there was not in Europe, nor in the whole world, nut excepting America, a country in which the landed gentry discharged all the duties con. sietene with their station in • more exemplary manner titan in England. When the question of the Corn s aws came forward lie world maintain the principles of free trade, not to depress the landed interest; quite the contrary, he would uphold that interest if neeessary, but he thought the landed interest was mistaken on this paint. His regret was, that most of those members of the Ministry who were holding lip the country to the light of the age, were not enabled to carry their own principles to the full length. He hoped to see free principles toed upon with regard to all trades, but when the trading interests called upon the country gentlemen not to op. pose the introduction of a tree principle of trade, they should not overwhelm Ministers with complaints of their distress, when liberal principles were applied to their own trades. For instance, on the question connected with the silk trade, which gave rise to so Import. ant discussion not long since, it appeared that the silk mantic tomrs were not satisfied with a protecting duty of 30 per sect. ; they wanted • prohibition. The Right Hos. Gentleman opposite ( Mr. Iluskissoni demonstrated that giving them more would, in tact, be giving them less ; that a protecting duty was better for the manufacturers than • prohibition, because in the event of a probi. bltion smugglers would step in, and other circumstances concur to injure the fair trader. But the Right Honourable Geriftemen failed to prove that either prohibition or protection was good for the country, or that it was maintaining the silk trade on free principles'. For what was the effect of a protecting duty ? Only to direct capital from • more profitable manufacture to a less profitable one. Ile (Sir F. Burdett) was an advocate for all the principles of free trade, because lie thought we should be la more danger by departing tram those principles than by following them. This proposition was not now disputed by any rational man. As in the Corn Laws, he advocated the principle of free trade as ap... plicable to that question s because he believed the apprehensions of the landed interest were most groundku. . After a few words from Mr. C. WILSON, the petition was brought tin and read. On moving that it be printed, Sir R. ‘S'ILSON said he rose to eatplain, not to apologize. He had made no attack upon the country gentlemen, lie had dealt Out no insinuations against them. Hs had only observed that they were peculiarly sensitive about their own interests, a remark of which the House might judge of the correctness. In some parts of the country he understood wages were so low as 3.. a week. Now, if bread was lower in those parts of the country, it could scarcely be alleged that wages could fall ; he thought that impossible. The manufacturer held, that if his workmen had cheaper bread, he could afford to sell his manufac. tured goods cheaper, by which means he could meet the foreign manufacturer, ant' dispose of larger quantities than he was at pre sent enabled to do. The corn grower and die shoemaker, or other tradesmen, differed in this, that a man may go to a cheap shoe. maker it' he could not atihrd to deal with an expenalve one ; but ' the corn dealer a as a monopolist. The petition, was then ordered to be printed. A new writ was nestled for electing a 3lember for the Borough of Horsham, in the room of Sir J. Aubrey, deceased. ABOLITION OF SLIVERY'. Mr. ABERCROM BY presented a petition from the town of Voughal (C. Cork) praying; for an arnelioratio i of the condition of the slave population in the West Indies. The lion. Member, at the same time, gave notice that he would present a petiti.m to. morrow (this day) in reference to a most oppressive and improper prectice pursued by the Bank of England. Mr. tAINNINti presented • petition ham certain towns in Scot and, praying fur the abuhuun ut Siovery.—Ordered to be printed. • ORF.ENIVICII HOSPITAL. Sir M. W. RIDLEY gave notice that on to-morrow (this day) week be would more for a returu of the expenses of Dreenwich Hospital. ABOLITION OF SLAVERY. Mr. W. SMITH presented petitions, praying for the abolition of slavery in the West India Colonies, from Walthamstow, and other towns in the county of Essex, and fro ti Peckham, Surrey. comfirrEE OF SUPPLY. On the motion or the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER , the !louse resolved knit . into a . l:uniniittee of Supply. ARMY ESTIMATE:3. Lord PALMERSTON then rose for the purpose of mowing the remainder of the Army Estimates. The first estimate was 2:l.Kiat, for the maintenance of four troops of dmgoons and twenty on:mantes of toot, stationed In Great Britain, fur the purpose of recruiting the corps employed in the territorial possessions of the East India Company—Agreed to. ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE. On the motinn that the sum ofl3,liil:l;Oagreed to for the msintenance of the Royal Military College, Mr. HUME asked whether the young men who were educated at the College were provided with commissions in the service. Lord PALMERSTON said that within tht last two years 113 of the students of the College had obtained commissions. Of those forty-six had obtained them by purchase and sixty-seven without plaCiowe. . . Alt. IiC3IE contended that there WAS,3IO neerosity to pay_tbe enormous NUM of Ii,IAIII. for the management of a few buys. What necessity was there to have so large an establishment for such a purpose. There was a Governur, a Lieutenant-Governor, a Major, three Captains, an Adjutant, Quartennastere, and other officers. There were alto horses to be maintained. Altogether the !rum pursued there required to be reduced, and he wished to know wbe 'ffier any reduction had taken place. Lord PA LM Eits'roN said that he would answer the question in as short a corneas% as possible. If it was necessary to have an army, it was equally necessary thst the officers of that army should be well instructed in their profession. It was necessary, unless they were to remain in a state of ignorance, that proper persona should be appointed to instruct them. The whole expense of the establishment was only Li,oool. per annum, which was an expense of about PI/. for each student, and fur that sum a better education was given than could be procured at any other seminary in the kingdom. (Hear.) The educetion given at the College was in fact of the very best description ; and icaey of those officers in the army, who had distinguished themselves by their military talents, had there received their education. Alr. lIGJIE said that he entertained not the slightest doubt but that the education was of the best description ; but what he meant to contend was, that persons becoming candidates for office should prepare themselves for tt at their own expense. He could not con. ceive why the eons of gentleman should be educated at the expense of the public. With regard to the Governor, who was paid a salary of Lath/. per annum, he thought they might do just as well with out one, end to suppo r t t hi n o pi n i on h e requested to be informed how many days during the past year the Governor Lad attended at the college ? Sir ALEX AN DER IMPF, said that he had been Governor of the College fin many years.during which he felt the deepeatrespon. aibility, at finding himself charged with the welfare and well being of young m en , at t h e most critical period of their lives—the pert when they were passing from their boyish years Into a state of man. hood. So deep was the impression upon his mind of the magnitude of the charge that, after an experience of five years. be requested pertaission to retire from the situation. (Hear, hear.) He gave up the salary of 1.3001. per annum, which the Hon. Alember for Aberdeen seemed to think too much for the situation, and returned to a salary of 41101. per annum. (Meer, hear, hear.) Since that period it had been in contemplation to appoint Sir Edward Paget to the situation ; and he (Sir A. (lope) had been desired to hold the situation until r•n Edward should hove resigned his situation in India', and returned to Europe, upon which he would twee more THE BRITISH PRESS. return with cheerfulne,s and pleasure to. iris salary of 4001. per annum. It should also be remembered that the Governor had to receive foreigners at the College frequently ; and detached as the College was from large towns, the society end intercourse which Was kept up was necessarily at the expense of the Governor. Indeed so seriously hail he felt this, that after having held the office ten years he should quit it as pone if not poorer than when he first ac ceptnt it. (Hear, hear, hear.) If the House reverted to the year they would find that the expense of the College was 33.300/. l'hecommission which was subsequently appointed hod so farresluced it that site portion which the public were now called upon to advance ' was only 13.0001. At the former period the 'timber educated was 400 ; at present there an but 200. and he believed, when the nature of the education given was taken into consideration. it would be conceded that nothing could be more economical. idatbernatics, the classics. the French and German languages, military fortifies done, drawing, &c. were all taught in the best manner, anti at a much less pmportionate expense than at any of the public semi naries Besides there was a stimuhis for young mes eiluea.el at the College to acquire every description of information. If a young man passed a public examination in the classics. in history, geography, or any of the other branches of education, such an examination stood for a third of his commission. In short they were rendered fit for any situation in life, and he thought that 13,001)1. was not too much to obtain such advantages. Ir. that 13.0001. it should also be recollected war included the expense of educating the staff officers of the army, no leis than eight of whom had been sometimes qualified in one year, although they were not conaidered qualified until they had made surveys of the country, nor until the accuracy of those surveys had been ascertained. Many offic e rs who had eminently distinguished themselves in the late war lied been educated at the College. Col. WOOD said that he had been anticipated in that which lie intended to have said, by his lionouroble Friend who hail just resumed his teat; but he woold just remark that America felt so far convinced of the benefits of a military college that one had actually been established by the authority of Congress. Colonel DAV I ES said that the whole expense of the American arnty amounted only to 600,0001. whereas that of Great Britain a nunted to seven or eight millions. They had also only 7.000 men to cover an immense extent of' territory. lie could not see the policy of keeping bush an immense staff' upon so moll an stablishment. Sir A. HOPE explained. Stir H. II A RUING l; said that within the last year 267 Cadets had been received for education at West Point, and so convinced were the Americans of the necessity of maintaining a military college upon a large scale, that a rroposition was before Congress for adding fifty horses to the establishment, an expense which the Government of this country never ventured upon. Colonel DAVIES said that there was not a tingle cavalry corps in the A merican army. - • hfr. HUME said that it was ur.doubtedly the duty of the Go. "eminent to see that every person was qualified for the situation to which he was to be appoioted, but that reason applied to every publtc department, tied or military. The large sum of 300,9901. was annually voted to pay Ambassadors, and yet so lamentable have been the deficiencies upon some great occasions, that the pub lic have had more than once to regret that the , ' were not better qua. lified. Ile would ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the auto subscribed (14,000/.) was not sufficient for the maintenance of the t'ollege, without calling upon the public for the sum of 13,000/. additional. Ile had no objection whatever that gentlemen's sons should receive their edocadon at the College, provided they paid for' it. The sum required was enormous for the education of 216 boys. He observed that 4001. was allowed for officers' hnrses, and he wished to know if that would teach French. (A laugh.) He did not think it necessary to pay largely for a writing establish. went. there being one attached to every regiment in the service. At all events, in the present situation of the country, it could not affOrd to pay a salary of 1,5001. to the Governor, and 1,1001. to the Deputy Governor, and he should therefore move as an amendment that the sum of 6.160/. for she pay of military officers should be reduced to 3,16411. thereby reducing the whole vote for the support of the college to 10.1601. Sir H. VIVIAN thought that the arguments of the Hon. Mem ber for Aberdeen were strongly , in flivour of the maintenance of the College, inasmuch as he had admitted that the education received there was of the very best description. He wished to take that op portunity of saying a few words relative to the case of a soldier, which bad been alluded to by an Hon. Bart. (Sir F. Burdett), whom he regretted not seeing in his place. He said, at the time, that the case had been much exaggerated, and that the punishment wen inflicted for the purpose of avoiding a resort to corporal chas.l tisement. He was of opinion that it Was not right to be bringing questioos of military discipline before the House, particularly when the character of the Royal personage at the head of the army VMS taken into consideration. The fact was that the man behaved very ill, and to save corporal punishment they bad resorted to that I species of punishment He had however subsequently expressed his contrition for his misconduct, and was pardoned • so that in fact the o ffi cers were only to blame for not having tri ed him by Court Martial, the consequence of which must bays been a severer punishment He bad received a letter from the Mayor of Exeter, to which he expressed Ile eadelsetion at the conduct of the regi . anent during their residanee is that city. lie should feel happy if this statement should have the effect of removing any of the exist ing prejudices against the Tenth, for, notwithstanding the reports which had been circulated to their disadvantage, there was not in the service a regiment the of of which were more sedulous in the discharge of their duty. It was with the greatest pleasure that he took that opportunity of bearing testimony to the general good conduit of the regiment. Mr. AIONCK thought the Celhege establishment might be done away with altogether. Hs saw no reason why persona ebould be instructed in the military more than in any other profession at the public expense, and quafifiod persona might be secured by appoint ing examinations for the caotlidates for commissions. General GASCOYNE said that the lion. Member for Aber deen seemed to have no objection to educating at the public ex. pense the sons of officers who had fallen in battle, or who might be unable to afford the expense of such an education. if such was the case, he thought he could base no well-founded objection to the motion ; (or the fact was, that those persons who could pay did pay, as was proved by the annual sum of 26,0001., which defrayed two-thirds of the expenditure of the college. This, his own °Wee dos, was answered by himself. Sir J. YORKE said that if the College were to be taken out of the hands of Government, which it must be if entirely supported by contributions from the parents of the pupils, it must become a public seminary, and he never knew a public seminary at which the pupils learned anything. (A laugh.) At least they learned nothing but extravagance and swindling. (Laughter.) Mr. 111111 E said that some of the pupils paid 201., others 531., and others 125/. per annum. Ile was sure that the Hon. and Gal. lent Admiral would not object to pay the latter sum to ensure • good education for his son, if the House were to refuse the grant, rather than allow the establishment to be discontinued. The same feeling must actuate all parents, and it was wily just that those who received the benefits of a good education should pay for it, and not the public. So large a sum as 6,0001. was tow much for niece military superintendence. Lord PALIIERSTON said that those persona who were in such a situation of life as to enable them to pay liberally for their children, did in fact pay more than their proportion of the expenses of the establishment. There were many persons, however, had not large fortunes, who bad distinguished themselves in the army and nar7, and whose sons were anxious to emulate die deeds of their fathers, and he thought in such cases it would be bard to deny them the boon of the necessary education. Any one who had any acquaintance with human nature would be able to appreciate the efficacy of those institutions, in inspiring the youth with an ardent spirit, and would know the necessity of rear. mg a sufficient supply of young men for the service. ' Ill?. WILLI.% 51 SMITH said that the grounds on which the Hon. Gentleman objected to this vote had been misunderstood by the Noble Lord. The Ilan. Gentleman did not object to the insti tution, but only to its expense ; he did not deny its utility, but affirmed that it cost too much. The Hon. Gentleman said that it could be conducted for 3,0001. instead of 6.000!., and have, at the same time, just as able superintendence. Mr. 111'31E said that his objection was not to the establishment, but it appeared to him that it cost more than was requisite. At Woolwich it cost less to keep under order a greater number of young men ; the cadets at Woolwich had beep at times upwards of 200, whitest Sandhurat the number was only 195, and yet at the latter place there was a Governor with a salary of 1,0001. a year. lie would reduce his objection to this. that he did not like to tree the weavers of Aberdeen, Bolton, or other towns, paying fir the education of gentlemen's eons. At present he would exert himself to reduce those expenses as much In possible. kat next year lie would object to them in tutu, as not merely inexpedient but objec tionable in yrinciple. Sir HENRY HARDINGE observed that the Hon. Gentleman was not aware of the difference that existed between Woolwich .nd Sandhurst ; these colleges were not on the same footing ; at the former there was a military establishment, including a conitustulant, which superseded the necessity of keeping an old military officer to superintend it, anti consequently lightened the expense. The question was then put— For die amendment Td I Against it . . 87 Majority for the original motion . . 65. The totes of 691/. 121.6 d. for general contingencies of the Royal Military College, and 156,0621. fur die pay of General Officers In his Majesty's forces, not being Colonels in the army, were then agreed to. When the vote of 35,490/. 2s. 9d. for the charge of his Majesty's garrisons at home and abroad. was moved, M r. HUM E rose to object to the custom of maintaining no minal garrisons, and paying governors, while in truth no such officer or staff' resided in those places. It was high time to retrench, and every one of the garrisons lie looked upon as • mere sinecure. If military officers deserved pensions, they ought to have then' directly, but not in this circuitous way. In this manner the garrison of Portsmouth fortification had dwindled to a sinecure, as the governor never lived there. He begged to ask the Noble Lord why the garrisons were still maintained at Fort Augustus and at Fort r William, and whether they had not beam suspended foe some time by the orders of the Duke of Wellington. Lord PALSIERSTON said that theme establishtnekts afforded the means of rewarding meritorious officers ; those garrison ap. pointmenN were the rewards of service. With respect to the gar ! risen* of Fort William and Fort Augustus, they were not abolished, because the buildings could not be tutned to account otherwise I than as barracks. When the total number of those appointments • were compared with the number of officers in the army, be was sure the House would not deem it expedient to diminish the means of rewarding military service. 31r. HIJSIE doubted whetter those appointments were always given to meritorious (news. lie would beg leave to ask who was the governor of Hull; he hadinever hoard of such a person, and yet be saw a sum of kill/. given to hint in the animates. He had no objection to pay officers where any duty was to be performed. but he did object, and the House ought to object, to this lavish dissi pation of the public money. Sir A. 1101% said that those appointments were distributed in such a manner as to be the reward of meritorious service. Ile had taken the liberty of examining the state of the army some yearn ago, and 11 1 0 found that a considerable number had risen through all the ranks to that of general officers, and to persons of this de scription no lest than 14i of these appointments had been given. The Honourable Gentleman cook' not find, he believed, an officer who could ace that he obtained any thing by farina. As to the Governor of Hull, he believed the person who held that place was Lord 11111,second In command to the Duke of Wellington. (Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL thought that the ()corral Officers who had distinguished themselves ought to be rewarded. They might, it was true, receive pensions, but this mode of requiting their ser vices wax more liimoursble. Ile considered the general vote there 'fore as perfectly justifiable, but he did not understand the Noble lard's explanation with respect to the forts in Scotland the aboli. tion of those forts had been recommended by a Select Committee, who seemed to pique themselves particularly on this part of their advice. Sir H. HARDINGE said that with respect to these forts the reduction of exneose affected by deserting them would he next to nothing, nor wci they wholly useless; one. Fort William, was situated at the entrance of the Caledonia) canal, and might serve as a defence against privateers ; the other, Fort Augustus, was useful as a barrack, and derived also some importance from its vicinity to the same renal. :Mr. HUME observed that those forts had been built since the Act of Union ; it was not any scrupls, therefore. arising nut of the provisions of that Act, which preventen • heir demolition ; on the contrary that Art was violated every day. As a proof of the worth tentless of these fortifications. the Duke of Wellington. he under stood, had ordered them to ke dismantled. j,s to the ides of de fending the canals, that was new altogether. Ile differed from those who thought it honourable for an officer to hold a ainecure; and upon this principle also he would object to them. But he would ask the Noble Lord why we should pay North America! Arty should wemaintain the standing garrison of Quebec ? Why should we pay for Barbedoes, Dominica_,_ and the others? For Oibtralrar there was an estimate of 1,50.5/. He was informed that the Canadas wee willing to pay their own espitnsee, if obey ware permitted, and every shilling collected at Gitraltar might to go to defray the expenses of its garrison instead of to the Crown. The expenses of the Colonies would be very much lightened if the system of governing them were altered ; if, instead of such persons as Lord Charles Somerset. whom everybody detested. (Cries of order.) Sir ALEXANDER HOPE deprecated any vague charges raised in the absence of the Nell. indtvidual who was their victim. Mr. HUME aaitl that if he was not permitted to bring thole charges before that House, how was he to bring them ; and as to his charging the Noble Earl in his absence. why was not the Noble Lord there ? But it was evident that the Cape of Good Hope was unproductive, because it had a bad Uovemer—one who did every thing in his power to prevent the colony from calling out its re warms. lie protested, therefore, against the paying those gar rioting which. when most innocent. were sinecures. . . ..... -...... _ The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he believed that the Honourable Gentleman (lid not nnderstand the ground on which he had been called to order by the Gallant Ge neral. It was not his wish to prevent the honourable Gentleman from bringing any charge, but he objected to the terms in which it was expressed. The expressions of the lionourabte Member were often so unguardsd as to hurt the feelings of others. In this in stance the expression made use of by the Honourable Gentleman was—" Lord Charles Somerset, whom every body detests." This ' language was neither dignified nor to the purpose, for the salary of the Governor of the Cape was paid out of the revenue of the co. long, and did not enter into these estimates. Mr. HUME said that the case was clear that the colony could pay its own expenses if it were well governed. Mr. IV. 11. •ItTON—The lion. Gentleman had stated that the Colony at the Cape could pay its expenses, if Lord Charles Somer. set were removed. The earliest means were taken to rem°ve Lord Charles, who is now on bis way home ; but the language in which he was mailed by the lion. Member was highly improper, and such as should not have beets directed towards a public officer; if that officer has misconducted himself. let the House do its duty in examining the proof of his guilt. The lion. Gentleman said that (he Canaries would be willing to pay their expenses if permitted. but he (Mr. Horton) would venture to coy that the Canada' would do no such thing. Considering the great extent of our Colonial possessions, the House, he was cure, would not think them was anything extravagant in the mode of conducting them. The Co lonial Department was throughout conducted in the most toonomi cal manner, and the expense incurred was no more than was requi site to retain the Colonies. 1 Colonel DA VIES said he would venture to call the Colonia appointments the greatest system of jobbing in the world t all our nionies paid their expenses under their former 017011". He did not like to hear his lion. Friend run down in that manner (laughter) while advocating the salutary principle d public tea nooty. Mr. S. RICE made some observation to the same effect. and spoke In handsome terms of the Lieutenant-Governor lately unit to the Cape. Mr. HUME said that he was not aware of such an officer having been sent out and he certainly (lid not mean to cast any imputations on him. His Hon. Friend, therefore, might as well have been eulogleing Sir PrregrinC Pickle (laughter) • but he did not think the shifting of Governors could do much go od ; the evil lay much deeper, it law in.the Fonign Office. It was the duty of the lion. Gentleman to see that the administration of the colonies was incor rupt. The Hon. Gent. wild, let us take the money now, and we will argue the business afterwards; hut Ito (Mr. Hume) thought that this was the time to come forward, and to save every shilling that could be saved ; the Colonies were worth retaining, but they ought to pay their own expenses, anti would pay them, if they were not crippled bye bad system of government. Jamaica could pay for garrisons, and raise taxes also; then why could not the other Coln. Mies do the same ? Ile contended that the money collected at Gibral tar ought to be applied in discharge of its expenses, and therefore moved, as an amendment, that the sum of 5.9001. should be deducted from the estimate of :15.498/. for defraying the charges of garrisons. Mr. W. HORTON begged to remind the lion. Gentleman, that if the Colonies could not at present support their own ex pense'', his proposition amounted to no more than that the taxes should be rsised in the colonies : all possible pains had been taken In the Colonial Department to ameliorate in every possible way the condition of the colonies • pains had been taken even to teach and disseminate the English language as theliarbinger ofother improve ments. Lord PALMERSTON' observes!, that on the came principles the Hon. Members ought object to the military stations in the colonies . - he could see no reason why the officers should be paid by the coloni , :s, but not the soldiers. Mr. lIUME said that it was the custom of the colonies to pay the garrison, but rot the military. Until the House determined on reduction, we should never see an end to these expenses. Sir K. WILSON said that when st the Cspe of Good Hope he was informed by the Dutch Governor that they had a military chest containing a large treasure ; and this treasure he was assured had been accumulated from the savings of the colonial revenue, and that they never had to draw on the mother country. With respect to Lord Charles Somerset he hoped that the (louse would have the justice not to entertain any vague charges against him, since he had made an appeal. (Hear.) The question was then put, For the amendment . 21 l Against it . 116 Majority fur the original motion . 95 The vote of 12:1,594i. for full pay to reduced, retired, and un attached officers was then agreed to, as was that of 46,4301.2 s 6.1. for half-pay, and military allowances to reduced and retired officers. On the motion that 107,2961. be granted for the payment of foreign half-nay, Mr. HUM F.: rose and begged to ask the Noble Lord (Lord Pal merston) whether any arrangement had been tnade by which the officers on foreign half-pay were enabled to sell their half.pay, as was the case with the British army. . . . Lord PALMERSTON said, rm arrangement to that effect had been made, but that the proportion was not quite so large as that allowed to English officers. Very few foreign officers had, how ever, availed themselves of the permission. Mr. HUME said, that the vote in 1817 on the head of foreign officers was 133,0001., and in 1826 it had only been reduced to 107,2961., 80d he must contend that the allowing of thoae officers to sell their half-pity would havethe efiket of pearetstating the half. pay list, anti he should be glad to know by what order that had been done. Lord PALMERSTON arid, the Mon. Gentleman (Mr. Mume) was quite mistaken in the view he took of the subject, by sup posing that the half-pay would be perpetuated ; for certainly those who purchased were not more immortal than those who sold. The officer selling was under the necessity of proving that he was in an onlinary good State of health, and upon which statement the value of his annuity was calculated. The officers composing the foreign half-pay list, were persona that could not he employed according to the Act of Parliament regulating that subject, and by the measure of allowing the sale of those commissions to British officers, their services were rendered available, while those of the foreign officers were not. The lion. Gentleman (Mr. flume) was quite in error in supposing that young lives were made subservient to old ones by Introducing the former on the retirement of the latter, for upon a fair oalculauonit would appear that there was little or no difference in point of age in the parties who sold and those who purchased. The arrangement in question was a most desirable one, inasmuch as it gave scope to promotion at a time when it was in r complete state of stagmeion, and indeed when none could be obtained, and the effect of the arrangement was to give a new epi•'t to the pro. fession, ...—...., Mr. HUME said, that In 1817 there were on half-pay 7392 Lieutenants, 3593 Captains, 996 Majors, 11101 Colonels, and 1:03 Generals and Field.Murshals ; so he KR% far from admitting that any facilities were requisite for introducing more officers into the army at so considerable an expense, which must be added to the burthens of the people. The principle was a bad one; it was giving to the Cmwn an illegal and unconstitutional power. He would not oppose the vote. but. he could not but object to the power given to foreign officers to sell, wbo had tcarcely served a day, and put the money In their pocheto So long as the House gave its sanction to such a state of things, so long world it do in. jouice to those who contributed the means by trixlth they were effected. Lord PAL3IERSTON said that he was not aware of any foreign officers who had been placed on half-pay who had not served. It was true there were some officers Guested, but they were not put on heif..pay because they were not considered entitled ; and he must inform the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) that no foreign officer tinder the rook of captain wu permitted to sell his tornmiulon.—The vote was then agreed to. The next item put was that of 49,27 U. Is. 1 W. for the payment of in-pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospital whichs, /: Mr. HUME rowe and said that he wished to submit the pro , piety of dismantling Kilmainh em H os pi ta l, w hi c h was kept up a; an expense entirely out of proportion with that of c orre . pendine establishments. He was anxio u s to su b m i t th e propr i ety tthhee a r my ye in t'he furelidandwo appealwes tr;)ot thes nlritlaayirnee sit or re moving the persons of Kilmainham to to paid at (etches. Ev er thing o gl i se ;ng r i e s i n st d, iit a g n t d o General (Sir Charles bong) whether they c ou ld not b e paid at Chelsea Illespital, certain as he (Mr. Hume) was that the lion. Baronet could give an opinion at once wheth er i t cuu ld or coed not be done. Sir C. I.ONG said that as the lion. Member (Mr. Hume) she. they the persons at present paid at Kilmainhem could not b e p e el at Chelsea, there was no doubt it could be done, provided an in, crease of the establishment took place. proportionate to the increment duty imposed upon it. lie (Sir C. Long) was a little 'nmixed a; the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman, (Mr. Hume) inasmuch as on a former occesion he hod wished to do away with Chelsea Hon, pital altogether. But would it he contended that such establish. ' ments were to be done away, which afforded protectior, artd comfort in old age to those who had fought and bled in defence of thei r country. (Hear, bear.) There could be no doubt of the recent, hility of the pmposiuon of the Honourable Gemlemane (H is Hume), but at the same time he must be permitted to dispute its propriety. Mr. HUME said that there was no doubt brit the uffices of the establishment of Kilmainham would be glad to resign under proper condition; ; at the same time he must contend that the corn. forts of individhah wcte not to be pet in competition with the pub. lic good. Sir G. MURRAY rose to enter his protest against doing awey with that establishment to which Irish soldiers had looked as the one to which they could have resorted in their own onutury. (Hut.) Mr. H I E said a few words in explanation, and the vote wee then agreed to. It was then moved that the sum of 1.285.5661. ee. 4d. be rented for the payment of out-peneionert of Chelsea llospitai; upon whith Mr. HUME said that there was no man who would not allow a proper reward or allowance as pension ; but when he had oht. jetted to the vote In 1821 on the same head, he was told by the Noble Lord (Lord Palmerston) there wonld not he an imam The fact, however, had been, that a gradual increase had taken place ever since the Finance Committee bad made their Report. In 182'2 the amount wa544611.0001.; in 1823. 1.1e24,0011l.; in 1824, 1.219.0001.; in 11123, 1,249.0001. ; and in 1826 it had retched the amount of 1,288,0001. lie should be glad to know upon what principle, having brought the army down to 88.000 men, that the increase arose? As fie expected that the amount would shortly reach two million., he wished to know titan the Noble Lord how the increase was to be accounted for ? Lord PALM ERSTON said that he could only ohlerve that soldiers having been enlisted for a certain period were entitled to • certain pensions. It did not come within the competency of 'he persons who had to decide upon their claims to say how many wem to be &emitted ; it was their duty alone to award those pensions tee which the individuate were entitled. It was a matter of greet, regret to see the large number of men who hid been disabled, bat how so great an increase of pensioners generally hadeaken place be (Lord Palmerston) could not explain. At the same time he wee certain the House would not deny to those men the bounty Mild% the Government had afforded them. Mr. HUME said that in 1810 the amount for pensioners en 800,0001. and he then said that the increase which had then taken plaes was occasioned by men who had saved abroad, and that a reduction might from that time be expected. But the fact was they had ice. creased one half more in time of peace, and therefore it was that ne considered there was something wrong--something which ought to be revised. the (Mr. Hume) had been infamied that these were some officers who would have none but handsome men in their re. giments, and several soldiers had applied to him (Mr. Hume), stating that they did not wish to leave the army, but that they were obliged to do so by their commanding officers. In certain corps he was told that ouch was the ease If they had not a particular sort of whisker, and black mustachios. 'lf they did not fortunately pos. seas these requisites, he understood the men were obliged to retteee and from what had come to his knowledge he femed thee were a great many in that situation. The great increase in the expense • proved there was something wrong. The half-pay also had gone on gradually ineressing up to the rem 1022, although the Cotta niittee of Finance of 1817 had said it would decrease front a rat mud at which it was supposed it dad reached its highest 'mourn That increase could Inn hare taken place unless individuals h.kr got into the army who had no business there. If every office in the service in the year 1816 had been put on half.psy the amount would not have arrived at a larger sum than was new the case, are that after a period of ten years peace. If additions awe to let made in the way they had been it would be impossible to go on, the country would be eaten up by the half pay. He could rot rte fuse the vote, but he wished the Right Honourable Gentleman, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to consider whether he would he enabled to meet the sums they were nightly voting away tinder the alarming defalcation in the revenue during the last two months. Sir CHARLES LONG said he must offer a few words. It must be in the recollection of the flotiourable Gentientaa (Mr. Hume) that in 1022 the Kilmainham outepeueiouen were transferred to Chelsea. There were teasons to account for the tee crease in the pension list, to a eettain extent, by the increased service occasioned by the formation of the veteran battalion, es • well as the return of several regiments from India ; butt he men allow those circumstances did not explain the large increase which appeared to have taken place. He (-ir C. Long) thought there MU something wrong in the system, and directed an inquiry. The person appointed for that purpose carried his investigation at through England, and perfectly satisfied him (Sir C. Long) that no fraud existed ; the same Inquiry was hieing pursued in Ireland , but he was not quite satisfied fraud did not exist there. At the same time it could not be said but that the service pensions had been carried to a too great extent, though that observation would not apple to the pensions for wotinda. If the House had bete aware of the amount to which the service pensions would have arrived it would never have consented to the measure, but it was impossible to break faith with the soldier, though the evil had been remedied for the future, inasmuch as the service pension sat not to commencemittil the soldier had completed a period of tweeter years' solitude. That arrangement took place in 1822. The in. creased expense did not at all rest with his Majesty's Government, and he hoped that the acme of expense on that head lied heel arrived at, at the same time the Government had nothing to do but to act on the law as it existed. Sir A. HOPE said that the lion. Gent. (Mr. Hume) had stated that the maximum of expense should be taken as that of leek hut he would find that at that timeonly a partial reduction te.d taken place. In 1010 there were 1,000 officers reduced to half-pay ;to 11119, 380 ; in 1821, 1,000 ; and it was by the reduction or the army, all after 1016 that the half-pay was increased up to 18:?1. alr, 111:31E said that admitting such to be case the reduction since hid only been from 1100,000!. to 770,0001 and therefore he felt bound to press upon his Majesty's Government the meowy of eduction. Lori PALM ERSTON said that the amount in 18'21 was Bente4lol.; and in 18-'2, in consequence of the reductions, it ass 870,000 e and therefore between that period and the present year the reduction was 100,00t1/. that diminution could not hare taken place but for the excellent regulation adopted by the Commander in-Chief at tine last augmentation. At that period none but the senior first and second lieutenants were promoted, all being of 17 years' standing. Twenty-two Captains were preecoted to the rant of Majors, each Captain having served 26 years. Seventeemalepts were made Lieutenant-Colonels, having been 11 years regimental Majors ; and no officer was promoted without purchase over the head of another. It was therefore impossible to say that anything unfair existed. No officer could be put nn half-pay but from the don or reduction ; it was therefore an unavoidable expense arising out of reduction, Sit E. EN AT CIIBULLwee fora time inaudible In the gallem, he was understood to say the Inc should not refuse the vote, hut et thought the House had a right to expect some amelioretion o: that law which pressed so heavily on the resources of the country. Sir C. IA)N( wished to explain to his Hon. Friend (ait 1.. Knatchbulll, that under Mr. Wyntlitsnee Act in 18110. soldiers ine. enlisted for limited service, and according so the regulation+ of that Act, the soldier demanded a pension after fourteen years' service, while in the East and. West Indies two years service went ter three: in other places. His Majesty's regulation did not act rettesere lively, but feem 1812 a soldier mom entre teemoryipare beers he was so eutitled. General GASCOYNE said there had been ten new togirreele raised, five of which had since been reduced and five kept ; thorn fore that would account that in 1833, as those officers were taken from half-pay, that there should be a reduction on that head. et knew how many soldier. were Invalided from the East and Wen Indies, particularly as regarded the former, having had the cote' command of a regiment atatienned there. The number of -nen m validel home from that regiment amounted to one-half, and that was done at a large expense ; but lie believed the East India (em ptily bore some proportion of it. The vote was then agreed to. The next item was that of 23,5161. 18*. 91.. to &Rey the Cl' perms of the Royal Military Asylum; which', after a tew etnei troni Mr. H r, was agreed to. The next item promoted was the sum of 142,0301. for the re!' metal of the Widows of Officem on halt and full pay. After some words between Mr. HUME and Lord PALIIEOSTON the vote was agreed tn. The sum of 190,7911!. 13s. cm. was then moved for the patine" of the Compassionate Lists, Bounty It'arrants, and Penitere fie Wounds, • Mr. HUME remarked that there had been an increase hi department since the year 1816, which did not appear to him to warranted while the country conthmod during the period in a eee' of peace. o+o old Lord PALMERSTON regretted that cireumetancee have oceuered to require the additions of which the llonourebi e .. Gentleman complained. Bat, while he entertained that feelieg regret for their melancholy occurrence, he could not see why th e meritorious objects of such casualties should not be considered 'n' titled to the provision which others had experienced in similar lint ations. That was a consequence in which he did not concur. au; h retrenchment was founded on an Unbend system towards those on , cent whose wounds in the service of their country deserve d ton e - . recompense for the disadvantages which they had thereby inmate:. at'ith the juidice of this feeling to their merit lee was sure I " House would coincide. The vote was then agreed to. for The sum of 48,2361. 10e. W., of which 6,10111. lace dd. w'es . 1 . Ireland, was then passed under the' head of Superannuation • e lowances. The sum of 33,000/. tot deleylni the charge Of Eicheeutt red was then vetted.