The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-06-15 00:00:00

./. • ~~ Pr - glo- • . de .. PARLIAMENTARY INTELLIGENCE. HOUSE OF LORDS. TUESDAY, Juis 14. • On the motion of the Earl e grain and flour imported from year 1820, wets moved for. Mr. Brogden, Mr. Hart Davis, 111 r. Farquhar, and other Mem ber" o f the Geese of Coninvons, bought op the blapritiue Ttade. Bill, the Exebequee Bills (10,500.000 L) Bill, the Irish Church Rates Bill, the Duke of Cumberland's Annuity B 11. the Scotch Prisoners'. Aliment Bill, the Bristol Town Dues Bill, and the Edinbugh and Glasgow Railroad Bill, the Scotch Lowland Churches Bill, and several other private Bills, which were read a best time. EQUITABLE LOAN BILL. The Earl of DARNLEY presented a petition from Stockdale in favour of the Equitable• Loan Bill.—Laid on the table. IRISH TIMBER TRADE. The Marquis of LANSDOWN said that he had a petition to Feint to their Lordships on a subject of very great importance to the country to which it referred, for in that country it was of the lemon conse quence to encourage the art of building for the pur poses of navigation. The petition he now held in his hand pro ceeded front agrest number of ship-builders residing 'in and near the city of Dublin, and it stated that the equalization of the duties •on timbe• had rais ed the price in Ireland to 350/. on timber, and us 750 E on dealt. This naturally produced very injurious effects ea their trade, and was certainly worthy their Lordships' consideration. —Laid on the table. . The Marquis of LANSDOWN then moved for accounts of thllt quantity. and quality of American timber imported into Dub during the last tire yeses. with the accounts of each year rape*, tiveiy —Ordered. IRISH JOINT-STOCK. COMPANIES' BILL. The llaequis oILANSDOWN, in the absence of the Noble President of the Council, in consequence, he observed. of a sorest douteetic calamity, moved the suspension of the Standing Orders. Nos. 211) and 211. After .a few observations from the Earl of LAUDERDALE and the Marquis of LANSDOWN in explanation, the standing orders were suspended. The Irish ,Joint-Stock Company Bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. COLONIAL INTERCOURSE BILL. • Earl BATHURST moved the prder of the day for the second reading of the Colonial Intercourse BIIL The Noble Lord stated .that it referred to two Acts which had been pased in the third year of his present Majesty's reign ; one of which permitted and regu. limed the trade of our Colonies with Foreign America, and the other with Foreign Europe. The first had allowed, in 10'3'3, American produce to be imported into our West India Islands under certain 'regulations; but instead of considering this as a boon, the Acne .zicans had imposed a duty on our ships in their ports, thus re securing to themselves the whole trade with our Colonies.— In order to restore the balance, we levied on the American ships, coming to our Colonies, the same duties which they had levied on ours. But this was considered as a meetly temperer; expedient, and no doubt was entertained that• a pro per undersramling would at last be come to. and a satisfac arrangement made. AU our efforts to accomplish this pas: pose, however, had failed. Then what remained to be done 1 Vip upwn our colonial ports to Europe. and to piece the European tills on the same advantageous footing es the Americans. For *he should we entertain more jealousy of thase.of Sweden and Denmark than of those of the United States? This eat one of the objects of the present Act ; but it went still fatthcr. It allowed all foreign goods to be imported front foreign ports into our colonies, on the payment of certain duties specified in the Schedule appended to the Lill. Not only were these goods to be imported in British bat in foreign ships, provided their cargo should be the produce of the country to which they belonged. This formed the great points isf difference between the present and the former measuro. In the former prohibition was the rule, and importation the exception. In the present, importation was the rule, and the exception was prohibition. The other part of the Bill related to the teen sion of the Warehousing Act. It was intended to allow goods to be warehoused in the colonies, either for importation or exportation, and to permit them to be re-exporteil in British or in foreign vessels, without being subject to any duty. The Lenient duty . on re-exportation was therefore to be repealed, tar to keen it would only be to deprive ourselves of an *deem. rage which other countries enjoyed. Warehouses were to be established on a more cetensive system, as they were t o receive all kind, of produce, whether British or foreign.— /le would not disguise from their Lordships that this was a cont. piete abandonment of our ancient colonial system. Ulmer that system there was no importation into our colonies except from Eng land, and no exportation from them but in British ships, and to England. Now they might trade with foreign ports and in foreign vessels. If asked what system it was that he pursued, he would answer, a system of commercial union, in the place of one of cob.. nial restrictions. By it our colonies would enjoy the same traee se the United States of America, and some advantages besides, from which those States were excluded ; for, as all colonial ships were de facto British ships, and British ships alone were allowed to bring the produce of the colonies to this country, or to carry it from one colonial port to another, they would have that branch of trade exclusively to themselves. The time when Europe held the %Vei.tern 'World:under the chains of the colonial system was gone by, and the States that lived in the darkness of slavery bad emerged to independence. Whether those of South America would Proceed as nourishingly as those which had given them the example of emancipation, was a question which it remained for their conduct to solve. The United States of America owed much of their pros perity to the enjoyment of a neutral trade. But, whatever was the progress or the fate of those States, it was impossible that we nitould be indifferent spectators of what was passing before us. We must watch the march of events, and not linger behind but move on with the current. The Noble Earl then moved that the Dili be read a second time. The Marquis of LANSDOWN said that the Bill of which the Noble Earl had moved the second reading, and on which he had addressed the House, was of a nature the most important—import. sate, because it was totally subversive of the old system. He did not rise to oppose this Bill, but, on the contrary, to give it his most cordial support; and he did it with the greater satisfaction, because it was the very measure which shortly after his entrance Into public life he had brought forward in the other House of I'm 'Lament, and feebly and ineffectually recommended this very prin ciple—to introduce a more liberal and tree intercourse between our Colonies and the Continent of America. Ile alluded to this cir cumstance to congratulate himself and the public that, after a lapse of 111 years, so altered had been public opinion, and so new wan the system of policy now pursued, that that very measure which had been received in so stormy a manner, on which there was repeated divisions in the other House, which was so severely attacked within doors, and so greatly abused without, which was condemned to so unqualified a degree by many friends of the Nobie Earl himself, was now brought forward and received with scarcely any dissent. It was, at the period to which he (the Marquis of bansdown) alluded, denied on the ground that if •Ne gave access to our colonies by means of American trade, it would hereafter he made a pretence to admit the ships of every power in Europe. He congratulated himself that the principle which WM then looked upon with so much bonne was now introduced and de cided, not by him, but by the parricidal hand of the Noble Earl himself ; for his proposition laid the very axe to the root, and des. troyed one of the most impolitic and unjust acts that had ever roused the jealousy of ono country and produced poverty in ^n eater. If this country wished to preserve her colonies, the surest way of doing so was by opening to them freely every trade in which they could engage, and by giving them, as far as pomlble, all those blessings which as tree States they would enjoy. if the ob ject of this country were to delay a separation—and in the natural tune of events, at some period, however distant, that separation bust take place—this measure was calculated to make such an event occur under circumstances which would be but comparatively little injurious—which would !mike the contest less protracted, and lime no very dangerous effects to either party behind. The expe rience of their Lordships would lead them to perceive how desir. able was the system introduced by the Noble Earl--a system which rinnoved colonial restrictions for the purpose of subatltuting a free oommercial connection, and that was far more pol-tic and just, sod more conducive to the interests of the mother country and her colonies. He had understood that another measure' connected with this would have been brought betire their Lordships, mid if he had any complaint against this measure it was, that i t had been brought forward as detached and piecemeal, and their Lordships bad not had an opportunity of judging of the• system wilt reference to all its parts. He would briefly observe rtiat a bill would be shorty before the Ham relative to West' India Duties, which proposed to remove those duties front such ar ticles as were raved by the blacks, or by the small white propels. tees and by this means to i•ncottrage free labour in those colones. To this bill he would give his most cordialsupport, from a convice den of the importance of the object it 'Caught to attain.. He not only approved of the bill now before the House, but he looked with anxiety to some future hill, which he was sure would he founded es principles that. would guide their Lordships successfully thmugh asp difficulties that might arise from any change in those relations which subsisted between distant portions of the globe. The Earl of I.IVERP()L naid that although he did not mean to detain their Lordships for any length of tithe, he felt it necessary re make a few observations on the bill now before the House. Pe entirely concurred in the opinion expressed by the Noble 3larmtia, that it would have been more advisable to have introduced another lwhich was connected with this, as it would have given the use an opportunity of at once perceiving the whole system to which loth the Bills referred ; and the only reason he believed lab , this was not done was, that business in the other House had so multiplied, that it was found impossible to pass that Bill through dtfterent sta. and really for want of tine . But though he ou taght it wou ld have been desirable to have viewed the whole n is eseee together, and though lut admitted that this Bill was con. matted with the other, he contended thet there was no absolute ne •ty for considering them together, because if this latter Bill was rejected by the Commons, or being accepted by them, did not meet the views of their Lordships , still he should mainrain that the niem • axle before the House ought to be taken into consideration, and ae zepten by their Lordships, although it had been proposed to the House unconnected in any way with any other measure. He did • not Wish, when hi embers wets agreed on the general subject, to re as to minor points on which throe might be some differences ; bat i.e felt it necessary so notice the observations made by the Noble Marquis in reference to the bill that had been introduced by him imp the House of Comment nineteen years ago, when be filled the ales of Chpnoellor of the Exchequer. What it was brought up to int Lords, It certainly (lid meet with his( Lord Liverpool ' s) oPPo 4ifen, because lie thought the Bill at mat time unwise mid urine allisary. But the Noble Marquis should recollect that a gust at sots bat since Wien - placc--not only since the period at which feu 18 ri (; the THE BRITISH PRESS. • that Bill lettelopodueed, but within a very few years. At the time of the Adeokisteation of which die Noble Illarquis formed a pan' the pried esoakittin teletive to Spanish South America was • stdaject on which mail of the most able Statesmen differed, and this also the Nsble Oioteuis eliould bear in his memory. Their Lordships were aware that Orcat Britain was not the first to have colonies, hut, on the contrary, wets one of the last; and thaF the system adopted by Spain, by Portugal. and by Hullaval, way the system which England was therefore obliged to adopt. But Spanish Awe had now become free—had now become independent and the great wcsornhemiaphere had become as it were a crincourse of fat dependent nations. The present Bill was not to alter the colonial syttem, but to terminate its eai.ttxttet for if the Hill passed. the , colonies would no lower exist as colonies, for Quebec, and ail places now 'similarly situated. would he placed precisely on a par with Liverpool. or Bristol. or any other English town, and become as much integral parts of the empire, as any English county. This was the subject which, in his opinion, ought to bisettopted. He armed in the opinion that such a system was calculdfakl to enrich the colonies, and to preserve them in connexion with the soother country ' • or, if a separation were ever to take place. it would ren der its effects infinitely less injurious. The principle of the Bill. then, was not the qualifieotion of an old system, but the adoption of a new, founded upon the chwegemehot had taken place in vl - Farts cf the WOTili, end which had their commencement in Breed. On these erotic ds he would give his super. tto the Bill, of which the Noble Earl had moved the second reading. The Bill was then teats a second time, and ordered to be corn. misted on Tluiraday. DUKE OF CUMBERLANDI ANNUITY BILL The Duke of ['timberland's Annuity Bill wastread a first time. EQUITABLE LOAN COAPPANY. Lord DACRL moved the second reading of the Equitable Loan Company's Bill. ' The Earl of LAUDERDALE expressed his determination to dppose the Bill. He had expected some arguments in behalf of the Bill, and in answer to what had been urged by Counsel at their Lordships' bar. But such had not been the case. The Counsel had gone at large into the question, and addressed, not their Lordships, indeed, for they were not there, but empty benches. He would consent to permit the sill to go into Committee, that the deed might be appended and made a part of the Bill. When that had been done, it would be for their Lordships- to consider on the question of the third reading, how far it was or was not practicable to pass such a law, or if it were passed for a Company to tam under it. His opposition arose from the conviction that Joint Stock Companies for carrying on particular trades or profes sions which more properly belonged to individuals, were highly idle and injurious in their tendency. It bad been said that Joint Stock Companies formed competition ; now, on the contrary, they were destructive of all competition, and the grand sources of Monopoly, and produced most ruinous consequences to trade. It could not be ton often repeated how injurious anti pernicious were all Companies formed for the purpose of carrying on trades which could be better conducted by individuals. It the Bill did not undergo alterations in Committee, of which he scarcely thought it susceptible, and if its pernicious tendencies were not obviated, he shouM feel himself bound to take the sense of the House on the third reading. The LORD CHANCELLOR said the Company had been evidently illegal precious to the introduction of the deed. Should it become a leog Association by the full operation of that instru ment and its Incorporation with time Bill, it would then be for their, Lordships to Mahler what privileges they might be dispersed to concede to this Company. It was nut his intention to trouble or detain the Benue with any farther arguments on the present occa. sion. It had been distinctly admitted in argument of Counsel at their Lordships' bar, that previous to the execution.of the deed the Cteopany was a perfectly illegal one. Ile did not wish to say one word as to whether the Company was legal or not since the execu tion of the deed ; but this he would say, the instrument in question must necessarily, either by schedule or otherwise, be mule to stand part of the Act, if it vele intended to run he it a legal Act. It was rather to be regretted their Lordships were not better informed by the arguments at bar ; but their Lordships had not attended, with the exception of two Noble Peers. thotioh Counsel had argued, and lie had sat night after night to attend to the arguments. Under these circumstance; be did not feel disposed to argue the case with Noble hinds who knew nothing about the matter; nor did lie wish to say another word about the Bill till it came before the House in a proper shape; and then. if necessary., they could have the opinion of the twelve Judges on the paint. At present he should neither ad mit nor deny the legality of the Company till established by Act of Parliament. Lord DACRE said, when the deed was embodied with the Bill he trusted their Lordships would feel disposed to discuss the ques tion with those favourable feelings that should alstays accompany a measure of great public importance. and one which he thought likely to confer a great public beim& if adopted. The Earl of LAUDERDALE explained. The LORD CHANCELLOR—It was no less necessary for the interviste of the public than Sur that of every individual in anywise connected with this Company, that the deed should form part of the Act of Peril:latent. It was equally necessary that the condi tions of the deed should be clearly and generally known. The Duke of ATHOL ditt not concur in the necessity of incor porating the deed with the Bill before their Lordships. It was de parting from established ueage, and a hardship to the present Company. The Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed tcoirinrrow. The 'louse then Adjourned. HOUSE OF CO3I3IONS.—TUESDAY, Juxt 14. WESTERN SHIP CANAL. On the motion of Lord G. SOMERSET, the Western Ship Canal Bill was read a third time and passed. IMPERIAL IRISH MINING COMPANY. On the motion of Mr: S. RICE, the Imperial Irish Mining Company Bill was read a second time, and passed. LONDON PORTABLE GAS CO3IPANY. On the motion of Mr. Alderman WOOD, the London Portable Gas Company Bill wag read a third time. and passed. FREEHOLDS—(IRELAND.) Mr. JOHNSTONE, from the Irish Secretary's Office, presented a return of the number of Freeholders in the counties of Galway and Sligo.—Ordered to be printed. EXPORTATION OF 3IACIIINERY. Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from the town and cotintyof Nottingham, praying that the House might not repeal the laws prohibiting the exportation of machinery. The petitioners expressed their regret that a Select Committee should have been appointed to consider the propriety of such repeal, considering, as , they did, that the great pre-eminence of this country in manutac tures, was attributable to the existing laws. The petitioners also stated,that the British manufacturers possessed the exclusive know. ledge of no less than thirteen machines; whilst on the other hand the French, the exclusive knowledge of three only. Therefore no reciprocity could exist in an irterchange of' machinery. True it wax, that many persons expected that if the free exportation were allowed, much advantage would arise from the large orders for machinery which would immediately be made ; but the petitioners thought that the repeal of the prohibitory laws would rather cause ' the transfer of' extensive manufacturing establishments to foreign countries. The Honourable Gentleman proceeded to read numer ous extracts from the petition, all tending to show the impolicy of repealing the laws. He was satisfied, he said, that even then machinery was exported; but the organisation of establiahmeets, from the few specimens of machinery that were smuggled out of the country, must necessarily be slow ; whilst, on the oilier hand, werea general exportation to take place, it would materially accelerate the period of successful rivalry (hear), and a few rich capitalists, with a sufficient quantity of machinery, might very soon convert large portions of Gertnanv and France into manufacturing districts. The question he considered rot less important to the landed proprietors than to the manufacturer; for what was it that caused the high price of agricultural produce, and enabled this country to support wars and subsidise the whole world, but her concentrated mechani cal skill, assisted by the steam engine? (Hear, hear.) To this source wan to be attributed the great pre-eminence of England. and when she departed from that policy which protected her manufac tures, she would rue the day. (Hear, hear.) The subject was al together one of the most vital Importance, and well worthy the at tention of the Board of Trade; and he thought much advantage would result to the country if that Board had vested in it the power either to prohibit or allow tfi exportation of machinery. (Hear.) And if the prestmt construction of the Board of Trade were such that it could not attend to that additional duty, he thought the House ought to furnish means for enlarging it. A few hundred pounds were as nothing when compared with the benefit which mint arise from their control over so important a matter. The Hon. Member said, he could not refrain from reading the conclu sion of the petition, which was nearly to the followings effect : ft' Your petitioners humbly pray your Honourable House not to repeal the laws prohibiting the exportation of machinery ; but should your Honourable House not except machinery from the fascination of a free trade, then your petitioners must beco.ne citizens of the world. (A Laugh.) They must follow their machinery to what ever clime it may be exported, and will ever regret the bad policy which drew them from their homes." Mr. BIRCH supported the prayer of the petition. Mr. HUSKISSON said he had listened with all the attention in his power to what fell from his Hon. Friend, the alember for Staffordshire, (ale. Littleton.) The subject was one of great inte rest to the manufacturing classes, and formed a considerable por tion of the labours of a Committee which had been appointed last session, and again revived in this ; and it wan a source of much re gret to hint, that front his other fIittIICTOUS avocations, he was not able to attend the Committee. The Committee WAS appointed to see how tar Parliament ought to repe el those laws which interferid with the s;ce exportation of machinery. He confessed that to him those laws seemed inconsistent with the soznidpoliey el the country. (Hear, hear.) Still he was free to admit that a rtrong feeling ex isted amongst those who were most intr.:sued, and eugbt to be the best judges, that if the free exportation of machinery were permit. ted.great prejudice woold arise from it to the mnar.ufacturiig interests of the country. (Hear, hear.) The Committee he was convinced must produce muck goal. for in the groat excitement and appre. pension that prevailed, from an idea that ruaclunery iv the moat im portant source of this country's prosperity, their report would serve to throw a fresh light on the subject, and induce persons to turn their attention to the question, and see how far England owed its superiority to machinery, acct how tar it proceeded front other causes. One circumstance which inducer) hint to consent to an alteration of .the existing laws was, that free egress had already been allowed to artisans, who must of cotuse be concerned in making the mead. nery. (Hear, bear.) Aomher.reason for consenting to the repeal was, that the law as to patents was exactly the same in England, France, and the Netherlands; so that a perman seldom took out a patent for any invention, who did not Unt161,14 secure it by enrolling it All those otber coo/dries- A still mare eogeritobjattion to the exist. ing prAlbitory. laws was the almost Impossibility of enforcing them ; end he regretted the parti es int• rested did not state their views as to what would make the law efficient, if it were stlfl to he maintained. Now that he had delivered his sentiments on the general question, he wished to state that he was not disposed to repeal all the statutes prohibiting the exportation of machinery at once; perhans such a course would c-eate great alarm, and per hapshe productive of much inconvenience and prejudice to the parties interested. (Hear. hear.) Ile wished to advert to what had fallen from his lion. Friend at the close of his speech, rind It was mainly for that put pose he offered himself to the House. His on. Fred said that a power ought us be granted to the Board of Trade to regulate the exportation of machinery ; he did not know whether his Hon. Friend wished that the prohibitory laws should he repealed, and that the Board of Trade should be enabled to lay an embargo on such machinery as they conceived ought not to be exported ; or that the present laws 'Mould continue, and the Board have the power of granting a license to remit the exportation. (Hear, hear.) lie omsidered such a course would be imposing a very invidious task on the Board, and. it his Hon. Friend knew how numerous the applications then were for licenses, even he would be disposed to compel the Board to decide on their respective merits: besides, the Board of Trade had no aptitude to determine what ought and what ought not to be exposed. Ile further 'assured his Hon. Friend that the Board of Trade had at present as many duties imposed on it as it could well discharge; and that he and the Vice-president applied as much of their time to it as they pos "ibly could. (Hear, hear, from all sides of the House.) If addi. none' duties were imposed on the Board of Trade, it must be con ; stituted differently from what it was at present. For his own part, though he had been for thirty years engaged in public life, he was never so much employed as in discharging the duties of his present 'situation. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME, as one of the Committee, wished to say a few word.. lie admitted the subject to be tine of great importance still lie thought greater alarm existed than was borne out by the evidence. He was hostile to the continuance of the existing laws, inasmuch as he has admired the general policy of a free trade. I Still he admitted that the opinion of the manufacturers were hostile to the repeal, and therefore he did not press it. (llew, hear.) lie was convinced that the preeminence of this country over others, was owing to many other causes as well sato our superiority in machinery. The Committee would in a few days lay their Report on the table of the House. In this Session they had acquired but little additional information, and it was remarkable that none of the witnesses fixed on what particular machinery it would be safe to export, for all admitted that every species of machinery was not to be prohibited. The lion. Member pro ceeded to say, that the lime, as they then stood, were ewe day evaded, mid machinery was constantly exported with impunity. Ile was quite of opinion that the law should regulate the exporta_ tine of machinery, and that the Board of Trade ought not to be allowed to exercise a power by connivance, as it were, which they at the present moment took upon themselves of deciding what should and what should not be exported. He would have them legally possess that power where exceptions were necessary to be made • let them place restrictions, but w he r e th ere were no objec tions, would havealree exportation of machinery allowed. If this course were to be adopted the consequence would be, that this country would possess a monopoly forages to come in supplying foreign nations with machinery, whereas, if the present prohibitory laws remained, that branch of our arts would be considerably cramped, while thz manufacturing interests would not in any de gree he benefited by them. With reAard to the time for proceed ing with such a measure, he thought that the House would do wisily to allow the Committee a greater degree of time than the present Session would afford to prepare their Report upon the evi dence before them ; end he considered that it would be better chat time ahoulci be given to them for that purpose till the next Session or Parliament. Mr. A. BARING thought the Committee ought not to act upon the theory of the case; but that everg practical effiet should b considered before the proposed measure for repealthg the prohibitory laws should be adopted. He would have the opinions of practical men who were intimately conversant with the state of our menu tures taken upon the subject, and if there should prevail any doubt upon their minds as to the policy of the exportation of machinere, he then would say it became the duty of Parliament to adopt the safer course. (Hear, hear.) It WWI quite evident, that under the present laws of prohibition, machinery might be exported with entire safety. The whole of that stupendous power, the steam engine, was earned with perfect safety. The defects of the pre sent law, therefore ' ought to be recti fi ed ; but as it would b e im possible to define by law what kinds of machinery should or what about(' not be allowed to be exported, there was no alternative left but that otgivingn power somewhere to determine in what cases it would be proper to permit exportation, and where it would beebsential to the interests of the country that exportation should be restrained. He thought such a power could not be given to any other public depart ment with so much propriety as to the Board of Trade. He was quite sensible of what the Right Hon. the President of the Board of Trade had said, that the BO:lid was already sufficiently burthened with public doles, but he thought that the efficient discharge of such an important trust could not be expected from any other de. pertinent of the Government, and that therefore this power ought to be given to it. It must be admitted that more good had origi nated from that Board in the course of the last few years than for ages before. (Hear, hear.) Bat he thou ht that the Right Hon. Gentleman ought to have the assistance of permns of judgment in the discharge of this additional duty, and who in the course of a very short time should establish a kind of precedents as to what might be exported and what ought not, so that manufacturers and mechanics might be able :o know where thew were prohibited and where not with almost the same degree of certainty as if the matter had been defined by an express Act of Parliament, and not leave those points to an arbitrary and uncertain authority. Seeing the immense labours of the President and Vice-President of the Board of Trade, he should like to know what possible reason there could be that those should be the only officers inadequately pro.. vided for. (Hear, hear.) lie did think that the House, seeing the real state of the case, would most cheerfully concur in any vote that should be proposed upon this subject. (Hear, hear.) Ile conceived that the duties of those officers were of the most important and most arduous kind, and he therefore took the liberty of throwing this out as a matter worthy the consideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who he trusted would direct his attention to it. Mr. T. WILSON concurred in every word that had fallen from the Hon. Member who had just sat down, on the subject of ten u neration to the President and Vice-President of the Board of Trials. Having frequent opportunities of observing the most arduous duties to be performed by those gentlemen, he thought there were not two Officers belonging to the Government which better required or deserved to have a greater provision made for them than what they at present enjoyed. The City of London -had much reason to sup port any proposition of that kind, for there was not a more ready access afforded anywhere than at the offices of the Right Hon. Gentlemen, the President sad Vice-Presidvnt of the Board of Trade, and every courtesy was shown and every facility granted to the merchants of London by Orate Right Hon. Gentlemen. He therefore thought the City of London would gladly support any proposition that should be made to remunerate them adequately to the important and arduous duties they had to perform. Mr. LAW LEY agreed with what had fallen front the lion. Member for Montrose as to the propriety of deferring the Report of the Committee till the next Session. He as a - Member of a great manufacturing district, felt it was only just and right fur him to say, that in all ca es where he had had occasion to apply to the Board of Trade, he had met with the most easy access, and had obtained all the information they could afford him. He felt him. self only speaking the language of all his constituents when he said, that he would agree to every proposition for adequately remunerat ing the Right Hon. Gentlemen at the head of that department. Mr. PHILLIPS said, that in order to render the Board of Track an efficient one, the salaries should be ample. When the head offices of that department were filled by such persons as now filled them, the House would be justified in making an increased provision fur them. With reaard to the subject matter of the peti tion before the House, he could not perceive the reams why the exportation of machinery should not be allowed. He thought that a regulation might he made by law. in which exceptions might be introduced as to what articles should not bi permitted to be ex ported. An the law stood at present, much injury was clone to the mechanical part of the community, without any proportionate be. nefit accruing from it to the manufacturer. A gentleman had stated to him that if he had free permission to export his hydraulic press, he should have been able to have realised a fortune by It. This case would illustrate the tendency of the present prohibitory system. Mr. ELLICE expressed great satisfaction at the conduct of the Board of Trade : and if there should he a proposhion fur increasing the pay to the President and Vice-President of that Board, he would most cheerfully support it. He begged to ask of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. T. Wallace). who was the Chair. man of the Committee on the Combination Laws, when he should be able to mak a Reporton that subject, and how long it would be before any measure would be introduced to be founded upon that Report Mr. WALLACE begged to inform the Right Hon. Gentleman and the House, that the Committee was at present considering their Report, and he hoped to be able to lay it before the House either to-morrow or next day, and in a few days after he should bring in a measure in pursuance of the recommendations of the Cana- Me. lIUSEISSON thought the course that hie Right Hon. Friend should take, ought to be to lay the Report before the house and bring in a Bill upon it, which should be read a first e, and to rf in then suftired stand over for discussion on the second Ing. Mr. IVALLACE agreed on the suggestion of his it lit lion. Friend, sad would with the permission of the House adopt the course pointed out by him. Mr. ELLICE said he had understood thatsit was the intention of the Committee to propose that the laws which were repealed last year should be re-enacted; if so he certainly should give the measure his most decided opposition. Mr. WALI•ACE observed, that undoubtedly it was not the intention.of the Committee to recommmd the res.enaerrent of the laws which were repealed last year; but to recommend that the common law should be restored. except as to those =sea where the meetiogs of the masters and workmen might be prejudicial to each other; aid to those cases only were the re-enactment of the lass to be limited. The petition was then brought up and read, and ordered to be laid on the table. Colonel WODEllol.Y;i;resented a petition from certain rec tifiers of British brandy respecting the proposed raduction of ditties nn rum. A petition was also presented from the merchant. of Boston in Yorkshire, pilling that no alteration might take place in the duty on wool. Mr. KENRICK. Mr. DENMAN said he had to present a petitiow from a gentle man of the name of Camper, in /which charges of a very serious nature were made against a gentleman who was a magistrate of the county of Sauey. fie thought lAwsuhjsct, of the petition a( Oa highest importance to the due administration of justice, and de• 'winded the serious attention of this House. •In, consequrn re of same mistake, he understeed that it had been supposed the no ic ' which he had given of his intention to make the motion with which lie should eemelude his permit address to the House, had referee& to the Magistrates of the comfy of Surrey generally, but it was not so; the petition was directed against the individual coeduct of a Magistrate, and he believed he mentioned the name of ?.Jr. Ken rick, as being the gentleman against whom he should feel it his duty to coal the attention of the House. He now did so with regard to two transactions, in which that individual had been ettgagrd, and which, if substantiated, he thought would make it absolutely neceasary that the Crown should be addressed by this House, ad. Tieing hts Itlajesty to remove that gentlen.an from any confidential situation which he might hold by virtue of any Commission from the Crown- In taking this step he felt great difficulty, because it was, he believed, the first case on which the House had been called upon to act since it had possessed the power to address the Crown as to the removal of any Judges or Magistrates from their alma. thins. It would have been highly satisfactory to him if •his case had been taken tip in any other quarter: had his Majesty's Mi. I nisters brought the subject forward he should have been better pleased ; however, since it had devolved upon him to do so, he would proceed to mention the two cases upon which he proposed to call the attention of the House. The first was that which was contained in the petition; and the second was contained in various affidavits which had been filed in the Court of King's Bench on the part of 31r. Oalfiper, in a cause where that gentleman Was plaintiff and Mr. Kenrick defendant, and by which it ap peared that 3lr. Kenrick had conducted himself in his character of Magistrate in a manner which proved him to be a very unfit person to hold that Commission. A complaint had been laid before him in which lie acted with the greatest partiality, violence and in temperance, and the ease ended in the inrprisorm?nt of the party who preferred the charge, and in consequence of ahich imprison ment an action was brought and the injured individual recovered a verdict. Although, therefore, it might be considered that this in dividual having obtained a verdict, be was prevenrei perannally to complain against this Gentleman, yet the pi r onal complaint of that individual formed a very small put of the ate to npared with the serious injury which public justice had sustained by this illegal proceeding. The other case was one in which Mr. Kenrick was not acting as a justice of the peace, but as an individual. In that case, also, the facts appeared in certain affidavits, brought forward by Mr. Kenrick himself, and which contained a statement that proved hum to be quite unfit to fill the office of Magistrate. In this simple general statement of the use he proposed, after h v ng consul ea with those who were able to advise on the best course to taken, to move, that the petition shonlci be brought up, re d, d prin eI, and that the affidavits should be obtained from the (:oars o' King's Bench, and also printed. in order that the whole of the documents might be put into the hands of Members, and then:ay inquiry which the House should think proper might af etwards be entered into with regard to the conduct of the and victual in the first place, and secondly with regard to the necessity of adopting such a measure as would secure to the country • fair and impartial administration of justice. If this course should be thought right and proper, he had only to make a motion to this effect. He did not know that in the outset he could be called upon to enter into details.; but if it should be the pleasure of the House, he would at ones pmcmd to state at large the cases to which he had only generally alluded. • But conceiving that such a course would be inconvenient, as It would be troubling the House to hear the statement of the facts twice over, he should con elude by moving, that the petition be brought up and read ; and that it should then be printed, and that the affidavits should be laid on the table, arid afterwards printed. Mr. DENNON begged to say a few words before the petition should be brought up. XV ith regard to Mr. Kenrick, of whom the petition complained, he could only state, that in pirate life his deportment was in the highest degree correct and proper. With regard to his public principles, it was well known that when that gentlemen had a seat In this House they were not at all in unison with Iris own, so that he (Mr. Denison) could not be suspected of partiality on that ground. The worthy Magistrate had a few hours ago told him, in the lobby, that hi, most earn -ot wi•li was, that his conduct should undergo a thorough mete t;ation, and that the whole of the affidavits should be brought forward. The only re quest which he desired him (Mr. Denison) to make was, that the affidavits should not be printed before the case was investigated. He was sure the Members of this House were too just to judge any gentleman until they had heard both sides, and that they would suspend their judgment till the individual accused had an oppor tunity to answer the charges brought against him. He agreed with the Hen. anti Learned Gentleman (Mr. Denman), that th ere could not come before this House a case of greater importance, nor one which more seriously demanded their attention, than the conduct of those who were accused of improper motives in the administra tion of justice. Before he sat down, he hoped he might be in dulged to say a few words to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. (Mr. Peel). That Right Hon. Gentleman having conferred so great a benefit on the country by the course he had taken with re gard to the Law of Juries, and now with respect to the law on Writs of Error, he (Mr. lknison) hoped the Right Hon. Gentle. man would consider whether it would rot be better to have the issuing of commissions for the appointment of Magistrates transferred from the Lord Chancellor to some other of his Majesty's Ministers--to the depatunent of the Right Hon. Gentleman him aelf. He thought this would be a very proper alteration. W. PEEL observed that the lion, and Learned Gentleman who brought forward the petition, had not exactly gi v en notic e , b u t had stated that there was agrest probability that he should call upon this llouse to exercise one of its most important functions—that of addressing the Crown for the removal of an individual front a silta tion which he held by virtue of a commission from his Majesty._ The Hon. and Learned Gentleman thought he should be able to found that proposition on two cases, which he had, however, very properly forborne to state to the House. He had proposed to b.ing up the petition, which contained one of those cases, to have it print ed, and that no further notice should he taken of it until parties had read it, and the individual himself, whose conduct was complained of, had had an opportunity to see it, and to give an explanation of the charges it contained With respect to the other case, which was contained in the affidavits, he (Mr. Peel) would state that it Was not his wish or intention to offer any obstruction in the way of a full and fair investigation of all the facts alleged against Mr. Kenrick. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had done perfectly correct in abstaining from staking a full statement of the contents of those affidavits ; the only thing which he complained of was, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman did not give a sufficient notice of his intention : it was not stated that his motion would go for these affidavits; it only said that he should present a petition respecting to the conduct of thin individual. There were two questions sug gested by this motion. The first was, did the affidavits give a fair and impartial statement of the case? If not, were there any other documents which could be called for that would? The second question was as to the advanced stage of the Session ? If the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had brought this forward earlier in the Seasion he would have had no objection to the motion ; but if, ow ing to the lateness of the Session, no inquiry should be able to take place, and Mr. Kenrick was not to have an opportunity of answer ing the charges, was it quite fair to lay these charges for six months against this Gentleman, during all which time he would be acting as a Magistrate, without being able to meet them. He hoped the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would turn this in his mind, and consider whether he would move for the production of those docu. memo, unless he intended to follow it up with a motion for an im mediate inquiry. Mr. DENMAN wasof opinion that there was plenty of time to put copies of these ailidavits into the hands of every individual, and to come to a decision upon them this session. lie did oat come forward as having a full case in these affidavits, but as they con. tabled factsohe existence of which were notorious, he thought they afforded a sufficient ground for investigation. Ile considered that the individual could not sufr much by there being printed, since all the circumstances bad been published in the newspapers. lie certainly could not, in justice to himself as a Member of Parlia ment, hays sat quietly under mach conduct without bringing it for ward for the consideration of this House, in order that the laws of the country might be administered purely and impartially to the people. An Hon. Member, whose name we could not learn, spoke to the character of Mr. Kenrick in terms of praise. Ile said, that haying gone on the Name circuit with him he had an opportunity of wit. nessing his conduct, and it was always that of a most respectable and honourable Gentleman. The ATTORNEY GENERAL said that in justice to Mr. Keorick he begged to say, that the merits of the question to which the affidavits referred were never investigated in the. Court of King's Bench. His counsel were never heard, as the cause went off cn a point of form. He was sure, therefore, the House would sus pend its judgment until Mr. Kenrick had been heard. Ile would state precisely iIDIV that case was liapoped of. One of Mr. Ken.. rick's counsel —as heard, and only one. It was an action brought by Mr. Kenrick against the Morning Chronicle for a libel. and on the plaintitra counsel reacting the affidavit filed by Mr. Kenrick, it appeared that a statement had been already made by that en. Replan Replan in answer m the libel, and which had been inserted by him in a Stamford newspaper. The Court immediattly interposed, and , said as Mr. Kenrick had thought proper to appeal to the public pee's, he could not afterwards claim the protection of the Court. The consequence was, that all the facts were stated against Mr. Kenrick by the counsel on the part of the defence, and no Counsel were heard for him. He was relieved from considerable difficulty in this case, from wha; the Honourable Member for Surrey (Mr. Denison) bad stated. That Honourable Gentleman said that it was the wish of Mr. Kenrick that the affi. davit should be produced, and his conduct should be fully investi. elated. He did hope and trust the result of that investigation would be, that the impression which was at present unfavourable to Mr. Keorick, mould be entirely removed. It had been asked whether the affidavits would fully and fairly state the facts; he begged leave to state that the affidavits would not properly disclose the farts, because many things were stated in them which M r . K enr i c k h a d no means of answering ; that gentleman had no possibility of knowing that those statements would be made. I‘'ith respect to the petition, certainly it was true that tile transactions there alluded to was to have beet the subject of a trial ; but the trial never did take place, for the case was agreed to be compromised by 111 r. Kenrick paying U. He mated this, not with any view to oppose the motion, but to show that the case could not be of very great magnitude which admitted of a compromise for such a trifling sum. He only wished the House to suspend its judgment until the whole of the facia, and the answers to them, were fairly brought before them. Mr. SCARI,ETT suggested to his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Denman), that the most approved course to slop' wu, to move that the paper• be laid before the Rouse, but that the printing of them be postponed until next Session. fie wu induced to offer this auxestion in consequence of the lateness of the Section, from which he was apprehensive that the circumstances detailed in them cauld not be fully and fairly investigated. It was ' lier su i ? . 8.) fur one, be continued in WAS of opi n i on from an unwillingness to hive th e c h aracter o f M r. Kenrick pre. judiced in his judicial capacity, t h at h e was desirous of not h aring these documents printed, when t h e y could be only regarded as an ex-park statement, sod when an opportun i ty of replyi ng to themwas non afforded on the other side. As to the allegati ons i n the that affidavit—if 3i r.Ke t n h r e i c y k were w6 nottrtie—ie (7tir a p roper hie present situation ; but he was at the an time anxious to disclaim any opinion as to whether they were true or not. In arsdawits of this kind much irrelevant matter w as introduced, and much that on first appearance bore strongly against the accinird party. Ye t hea th r at was susceptible of easy and satisfactory expl anat i on. (Hear, 3lr. YNN was adverse to the papers now moved for being printed. The House shou:el bear in mind that they could not by the forms of that House examine a witness upon Now, these charges were made upon oath. They ought to adopt such a course as woul.l not give an unfair advantage either to the party accusirg or ACCIISV(I. Mr. !s. lit/URNE thought the subject ought to be postponed to the next Session of Parliament. If an investigation were to com mence now, whit prospect would there be of its terminating during the present Session, more particularly as although it had gone Through this 'louse, a similar investigation should be proceeded on in the 'louse of I, lAA? Mr. H. SUlSlNEBthought that whatever might be the ineon venience, the . lluuse was bound, both in justice to th e i n di v id ua l and the pubis., to hsve the investigat ion entered upon forthwith, and ought not to leave Mr. Kenriek in the discharge of his judi cial duties, with so heavy a charge impending over him. Mr. PEEL suggested that the Hon. and Learned Member should bring forward a charge himself, foutided on the affidavit., but objected to the printing of the affidavits, as such document, frequently contained irrelevant matter, and Mr. Kenrick might be at a loss to know what he ought toreply to. Mr. DENMAN expressed his unwillingness to become the ac- CUSCr of lilt. Kenrick, or to be the framer of any charge against him. Ile felt it his duty, u a Member of that House, to lay be.. fore it the affidavits which he had moved for; nor was it the affida vits only made against Mr. Kenrick that he moved for, but for the of also made by him. Ilia lion. Friend had said that the application to the Court of King's Bench was rejected on a poiht of form, but the point of form was this—the person whom he was ac cused of having cruelly treated was acquitted at the Sessions. Mr. Kenrick afterwards wrote a paragraph in a newspaper, rtffecting on this individual in the strongest and severest terms, and the Court of King's Bench naturally said to him, that after he had taken this mode of vindicating himself, he ought not to look to them for re. dress. That might be a point of form, but it was also a part of the merits of his case. (Hear, hear.) As to the lateness of the Session, he regretted that the subject had not been submitted before to the attention of the House. However, under any circumstances, Mr. Kenrick ought not to be permitted to go another circuit unless his character was cleared of the imputations that at present attached to it. So far front desiring a partial inquiry, he was desirous that the fullest investigation of his ease should take place. He (Mr. ii.) was anxious to state, that he had by no 'wens made up his mind as to the real conduct of Mt. Kenrick. He certainly viewed it very strongly in one point ; but if his present view should by future evidence be altered (although be scarcely thought that possible) he would be ready to declare it to the House and the public. He had not, any more than his Hon. Friend (Mr. Scarlett) prejudged the else of Mr. Kenrick. On the contrary, he was anxious to afford ' every facility of vindication to Mr. Itenrice ; let him be heard-- let the charges against him be refuted or proved ; but let not un necessary delay intervene, lest the gentlemen of the counties through which he passes in his judicial capacity, with such charges unrefuted against him, tnay refuse to emaciate with him. Mr. WYNN said that the usual mode of proceeding in cases similar to the present was to have the documents laid on the table, and to refer them, if necessary, afterwards to a Committee. This was the course adopted in the case of Judge Page ; it was also the course adopted on the occasion of charges being preferred by Lord Cochrane against Lord Ellenborough. In the latter case the charges were communicated to the Noble Lord. A similar course was pursued, he believed, when an lion. Gentleman (Mr. S. Rice) preferred certain charges against the Chief Baron of Ireland. Sir M. W. RIDLEY, on behalf of the individual accused (Mr. Kenrick) begged to communicate to the House the anxiety uhich he felt for an opportunity to vindicate his character ; and that op portunity, in his ( Sir M. W. Ridley's) opinion, ought to be af. forded him forthwith. Mr. CANNING was unacquainted with the merits of this case, and indeed of the cue altogether, except what had reached hint through vague and casual rumour. Ile thought. however, that the fairest mode to proceed in such a case was fur the lion. and Learned Gentleman to move some substantive charge, and not to move for the production of documents—or documents too sworn to upon oath, particularly when, by the forms of this House, an oath could not be administered, and therefore no evidence of equal authority could be adduced against the statements contained in them. The House could not administer an oath : it would have, therefore, the assertions on one side upon, and the assertions of the other not upon, which was not fair to the individual who was called Rpm tomegative, if he could, these accusatitnts. Besides, these .ffidavits contained many irrelevant facts, and therefore for the pur ims,. of laying the future of the charttcs mote securely and more Intelligibly before the House, he thought it wouhl be better that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman should submit a motion upon the subject. Ile said thus much with no view of offering any obstruc tion to any inquiry which t h e H ouse m i g h t thinkit necessary to adopt on the present occasion ; but that they might adopt the most satisfacto-y course, and that which was likely to be attended whit the best effect. Mr. DENSIAN reminded the House that in the case of the Chief Baron of Ireland the charges against him were contained in depositions made before the Commissioners of Inquiry, and no ob jection was then taken to the inability that then existed on the part of the House to examine the party accused upon oath. He was willing to adopt the suggestions of the several Members who Fad spoken on this subject, as far as he could, none of whom, it should be remarked. had directly opposed his motion. He would be sa tisfied that the papers should be laid on the table of the House, but that he was desirous that they should be placed in the hands of every Member, and he did not know how that object could be ob tained without printing them. He disclaimed any intention of moving for expartc documents. It was manifest that he did not, as he moved for the affidavit of Mr. Kenriek, on his motion for a criminal information against the Morning. Chronicle. He would equally consent to the production of any other document which would throw light upon the circumstances of the case. Mr. S. RICE, after a few words horn Mr. Canning in explana. (ion, begged to assure the Right lion. Gentleman that in the rase of the ihief Baron of Ireland, the accusatory matter against hint was contained in depositions before the Commissioners el Inquiry, whereas the Committee had nothing on the other side but the printed letter (not sworn to) of the Chief Baron. Mr. BARING was of opinios that the conduct of Mr. Kenrick ought to undergo immediate investigation. After the speech which he read of his Majesty's Attorney-General, censuring in strorg terms the conduct of that individual— The ATTORNEY-GENERAL intimated across the table that he spoke on that occasion in the capacity or an advocate. Mr. BARING resumed. It might be so. but he was sure the Hon. Gentleman would not make that statement which he had made unless he supposed it had some foundation in truth. The House was called upon, he thought most improperly, to let this matter lie over until the next Session of Parliament. But the House should bear in mind that whilst they suspended their juslg. ment Mr. Kenrick wo u ld not suspen d his judgments. (Hear. hear.) If such charges were preferred against any English Judge he was 'sure the House would not permit them to pass uninvestigated, and he saw no reason, because this inquiry related to the adminatration of justice in Wales, that the House should be more in attendance to it. His Hon. and Learned Friend had consented to the produc tion of documents on both sides, an that there could be no ground of complaint arising from a want of reciprocity of evidence on both sides. _ Mr. DENMAN stated, that he intended to more only for copies of Mr. Kenrick's own affidavits, and that by which he was proved to be the author of the letter sent to the Stamford Ness. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL objected that his lion. and Learned Friend would, in that case, depart tiorn the terms of his notice, which was for copies of Mr. Kennek's affidavit only. Mr. DENMAN expressed his desire that every document con neved with the subject should be lard before the House. Mr. CANNING said that he and his friends around him were in error as to the motion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, as he understood him to confine his motion to certain affidavits. Mr. DENMAN said that the error arose from theomisaion din Hon. Friend, who had given notice of the motion for him. The petition was then ordered to be laid on the table, end printed. Mr. DENMAN then moved for the topics of the affidavits to which he had before referred. The motion was agreed to, and the Hon. and L-arned Gentle. man intinuited that as soon as die copies were Lid on the table lie would move that the be printed. IRISH CHURCH ESTAIILISIIM ENT. Mr. lit'3lE rose to submit a motion respecting the present Church Establishment in Ireland. In submitting such a motion he was aware of Its importance, as well as the responsibility that at tached to an individual who brought forward such a mottos. lie was induced to present it to the House from a strong impression upon his mind, that that establishment was not calculated to pro mote die welfare and prosperity of Ireland, but that it a con trary effect, and that as long as it continued as it at present stall. as far as he had means of judging, there was no prospect of peace and unanimity in Ireland. As he had on three former °mamma submitted similar motions to die House, and had gone into the ll detail of the reasons that should induce the House to accede to the proposition he had the honour to submit- it would be necessary for him on the, present occasion, to occupy the attention of the House but for a short tune:— Much was now conceded on this question which had been formerly denied. Sonic progress therefore may be said to have beet made, al though so much dread had been manifested by Hon. Gentlemen at both sides of the House. Ile (Mr. Hume) wos as well aware as any Hon. Gentleman of the utility of a proper system of religions instruction. From his own experience he knew the great benefits derived from a proper system of religious instruction in Scotland- In that country the Pastors w:re suited to their duties. They were nerer absent from them ; and from January to December the Irk and only From such a system much good must of necessity arise. Therm' object of their attention wa s their ministerial duties - From must benefit, and the public must be satisfied. 111 called upon the Legislature which had cre a t e d th e pre s ent system to eon eider whether through the change of times and things we wets not mow ailed upon to review it t and if it should be found faulty and inadequat• to its duties---if the Pastors were too numerous or too well paid, Parliament should consider the propriety of so aftw- r V I I , k _ MON rc La !TIP ' • ', O A .'