The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-03-20 00:00:00

s pr inciple which he (Ur. Martin) .eft it lit (lute to oppose namely. flat some offices should b., indt . tent of pntronatr,.. Three were he understinx.i, resolutions to he pro r riseti by an Hon. Fs ielid 0! his (Mr. Bunke-) which lie should have no chive tion to, as far as Ina Wa. 114.1kie H l lll4llltelt Wait their nature and substance. The eighth r. solution of ti , e Chancellor of the Exi i,eyucr went In liimt the ! mission list to foreign its iii tern to 2 min ii-your, he knew Volt many pet...mini had hero laieie giant. i for rely short service.., and would a i,h to 'see some distinction established, by which 1110,e w h o hod serv , d long and successfully, should be gnisiwd from those of a contr dest riptio.i. A. to the influence of purliainent viich occasion-, it was on new thing, they hal reduced the ilICOIllt of the auditors of impressed accounts limn 13,0001. a rear • ;to 7 0001. and ull the officers of the Ex- . 7 !,equer, including the Teller hinifelf, had escaped, in the year 1780, by u majority of live only. With .em<ct to the officers employed iu the Chanecry depart nent, who mad: use of the money helonging -ii suitor., he thought that the interest should go to Ice persons to whom the moneybelonged ; he saw mason why it he otherwis-. He coii t.i:ded with proposing his Resolutions. . . Mr. 11.tivaEs stated, that he had au am. ntlinent *lnch he Mtended to move In the sd Itesolution. Th e ti. t (testilntim' was then pat, which stated, ti.a. the uttno4 attemi.in In ecouo:ny was a duty iiclaibent upon that [louse. Mr. Ptx.c.Evat. said, that the only amendment si.]ied to stig4est to that was, that it Wa4 a ditty," for tio doubt every male engsg t. I : s pabitc ftinctioa, whether in or out of Pai -1 ~ „•••,,t, w li s bound by that principle. :V.:. floss begged have to notice some obser t:c.ifin which had been thrown out respecting a n'cuio :.t which he had published, and In which hr his name. in order that he might he for the conteuts, and be liable to i•e uOllll for an explanation of such doctrines or as Gentlemen might be inclined to (hy po,. llc w:111 ready to allow that the ititere.t of th e d e :,t VS:IS iticreas.• I i•li the principal of the cl-ht oself, but how the ilifin nee of the Crnwn was inerrascil l.y that weans, he d.d not know ; a greater „,, h .,. of clerks might he to be appointed by the Ea k, hu a,, what manner the Crown was to be o ff eI by -old) .1 ppoluttnent., lie was yet to un- Titere was, also, an additional revenue 01 tiny milieus sterling a year, but that reventr.! co.ieeted by forty ur fifty persons, under th.• nanq jtmdic ons useful regulations. He I..id it , his paoto:,let by him to recur to— t( brigh ivr ota!ti state the fact.— •;.,,,. nex t ' , i l l( ' t W 1,., the A •ity and Navy, upon the !fon. Gentleman had dwelt for some • chilly no rue tho Staff Department. On t Itose) would acknowleilp,e NiN not w ry accurately acquisidten; but he real I that in all the time during which he hat ailimitistrition, he did not know that t euty ,dEe, s' ,ommissions had here given away. had a cused lii a of haw ng stated upon the head of Barracks, or Trumped's, or of the Board of Controtil. As to Betruckp, he would r Ay, , VIA he wilt particular ; that be had even corrected a mistake, and entered far into de- tail: lbe bast aloe gone tufo detail rearectsug Trims"- . . . ports and the liLard of Controul. It he w was nut i• upo:t sec!' heads, he could state, Viet it was his serious iiitentlOn to have been .0, and that nothing could have given hiiti more tjea.ure than env coinumici-ation from the Hon. Cenitiem in, which would go to put him in pos se-woo of fuller information, and enable him to mako a more tottisfartory statement. Any motion fon ini u tend:till to acquaint the public MI ouch putout, he would readily support and second. The four and 11111 per cents. were greatly reduced at one tithe; but all the politic accounts were now audited to a wanner, and subject to a scrutiuy more enact, 10;13 those of any pi ivate individual. lu the pam phlet to which allit•ion had beets made, it was his end asoor to my - erten+ every thing as accurately as possible, without hissing in view any particular (lib eisssiou, or tutenditithat it should be applied to any othe r p ur p ose than the advancement of truth. Ile had avowed hintse'r the author of it, and aims T . • Irly to Iscswer slily q•sestions which Gentlemen n, qht think lit to propose upon the points on which it ireatvl. Mr. CItESVEY .ibje:leal to the doctrine which it was 11. e mint object of the pamphlet to moimuiti ; that the balite ce of the Crowti ass not iiicreased. If the Rig'it !Inn. f;entle•iiin hid intended to deal 'oily with the pit Ithe, he should have stated those ices r,och were 1111.1e.1, it. well its those which e : le reduced ; butt those tillier• were only as a drop el enter, compared with the other inlets of iitflu eiti•i% nut the Itt4lit Floa. 'isthmian heard th: it a ll trrark-iii stir had clam god nine milltem• Crow., %—litrl slot the Crown employ con - ien-sfiu the very amitettorsee of the soldiers? IVhy •hoold he talk of Birr.lek-illaSterr, military inconsideralde moment- Hut tin m itiok al.'o to the Low—Judges were Komori %.l thlktirs were multiplied ; petritrinS were t•leil to the Jtolges' sh tries in lochs. Sir Wil -1 .militirong! , s , who coTitsed Ministers, and others cf •t.nilar thlyitsitson Nod oililre•s, hid reaped the At 11. e pre,etit 'twiner'', the salaries sod I. its 0., . ot the t..;:ciitt Judge., in sinsonnt.:d • usillion a yea', and the Might note. Gentleman Lail it is, Isl• pot, i-r to recnintorlid as moor yon IC i•n o as he idea". 11, to those tat tiatiore, itie•i led and naturitit v , to ' itc h distioction end eon,- Iltit ali e U li , ght 110.1. Gclit ! eunto parmine h s t respecting tar iuCn' nor '1 SIN Crown. it ea. somewhat curl ins Chit h te vet mentioned the colonic.. Cret' he he to •.0 or Intilwires to that ittisiteet % Did out rcnsettitwf, that, %11. it (7,11011 ass taken, M• , 11 1 01.1 nl ei...t Mons,. Suit •iistal the government of i .„ 1 ,„ 01 14,./1' , 01...% PA, 0•41 he not know t... 1 otie.sret rt of the Trea-nry 11.11MII:i It. It • maid in FEN lorame aceutnoatil. ? 1)01 he nut icinemlser these 10-tAin " 4 : , •Ul I they not hots. led Imo some itttims " 1 'object, so tot p•ii tacit to the eslculaitots its he was a• that of the cololoal Hp -I.9,tintetits ? The .I;ttit- of Adostraltv were another i• . 1 eddstion to the at is cof the Crow it, 'troths ' • t mi ni ons of money. Del not the tit r! • I . Oittronav- retee a fond which was don 4 erons r Wntiltl any one Wire 6 ogee, that L.l' t:,CTIN.s9 COLO.' but so r end the t sect. an palpable, though tint within the reads of the Bight Hon. Gent. ? The state it the East India Company was another mama( sdalifion 1 1 to the influence, *Lich. lie watild assert, was I creased. With twenty or tiiirtymaillions of debt, and no other means of supporting itself but by the i protection of the Crcon, how could they do justice to eh, it constituents, will t ouppertnig that Go esritinent upon which they were dependent? With respect to loriminos, when detail Posited his purposes hr went into detail, but when he found it inconve- i to his principles, he was get eral. At first there were but four hlemb-rs of Parliament upon thu Pension List, now there were se%etsieets. It had been said there were no contenerots in the House ; but when any person was pointed out tol. ' as a contractor, and hr observed that such ['cram was I continually in the train of the Minister, lie was in clined to believe the report. Ile would ask the Right Honourable Gentlefolk') could he say that hr had never had any convers.itions with Members of Parliament upon the siolskict of licenses ? As to the pahliaition, he thought it must have been nu dertaken for party purposes ; why else slinuhil the name of Fos be introdu- rl in such • manner as it was ? why else should i b ar those character istics of party, which every our who etainitted it must perceive why else should a Gentleman of such oeltsson hided talent, pro luxe such • pitiful' and nitproper performa n c e , if th ere wa s nu t some motive at the bottom. connected with purposes which were relents' 'd to lead the mind astray? Mr. llama said, that lia was called upon in so very marked a manner by the Hon. Gentleman, he hoped they would permit him to offer • few words itt reply. He eared as little for the evithet pitiful, which he had been so good es to apply to his pamphlet, as he dill for nor thing else proceeding from the Hon. Gentleman. But he had been ac cused of inaccuracy, and of Nvoiding detail. He was ready to meet either charge, and to repel it. It had nee° said, that, in the Iteveme, and the Barrack Department, he had dealt in generals ; but, so tar from that, he had entered into • detail of all the offices. As to the influence which was to be derived from comports, he did not know in what it consisted. The same charge had been made with respect to miloory roads, to which he would give the same answer. Al lusion had been made to the the salaries ; nay it had been contended, that additions in that &Nutmeat contributed materially ti increase the influence of the Crown ; it was the first titue he had ever heard such additions re:ireselited an a light so odious. As to India, a geolernan near him. (Mr. Dandos) wee beam- informed than he wee, and would, he had no doubt, be able to give a ',misfile tory explanation, and a sufScieut contradiction. As to the plaits of Admiralty, he was ignorant of them; but it had been stated, that he had not no ticed the Colonies in his statement. If he hod rectila levied the loss of influence, in the loss of the American settlements, he must come to a very different conclusion upon the comparative state of that influence, from that which the Hon. Gentle Man was so anxious to deduce ! The Hon. Gentleman hail said, that there were contrac tors in that Howe.; if there were contractors he did not know it, nor did he believe it ; since the Ball upon that malsjset had boos intredweer44—se was sure that no such persons had found adinieston into that House. As to licenses. It. would allow that he hod held coaversatione with Members of that Hemse upon ;Wm. but he had held no private con versations, nor did he favour one party more than sikother. There was no shadow of influence derived to Government from that quarter. If he had acted in the manner attributed to him, he vroold have considered himself unworthy to bold s. c situation under His Majesty. His matemeut was made ho neatly, fairly, end plainly. Mr. DUNDII reuld not conceive what the ino tiveof the Hon. Gcl.tleinan was, h. introducing the subject of lodic. What that Lad to do withihe prerogetives of the Crown, he was not aware. Not one of tire Judges iu that country had been ap pointed by that influence, directly or indirectly. He, himself, Irrd never appointed one individual under the Government of India. Lord Mints had his pledge upon that head, and it never should be forfeited. Mr. Coultas , re-ioiserted his former position, and contended, that Government had the appointment to such places as were introductory to the Bench. Every creditor of the Government of India would naturally look to the Crown, having a renewal of the charter in cons tnplatiou. Mr. SIMEON 541 d, it was his opinion that it was not proper to interfere with the patronage of the Crown. He would not have troubled the Com mittee, if the class of officers to whom he belonged had not been mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Martin). he meant the Masters in Chancery, to which body he belonged. He denied that the government obtained any patronage from their appoititinents. As to their pensions, they were granted by an Act of Parliament, and the fund to meet theta was one that accumulated in the Court to which they belonged ; and the only que,tion was, whether the sum should accumulate in the bank, or that it should be given to thow officers of the court, whose meritorious services and old age required it ? He would venture to assert, that, one out of ten of those situations, were not given to Members of Parliament. It was a patent office ; he received his from Lord Lough. borough, tire years before he, (Mr. S.) ha 4 the homoir of a seat in that House, and ass confident Ole town could not derive any patronage from thcrn. He o-ked those whom he had been in the habit of amino; with, and those he had nut, whether they were nut seneible lie had always voted accord. ing to his eree.ctenre Air. Ht.% NIANTIN spoke in explanation. Sir Jowl contended that the droits of the Admiralty Irarl been granted for the eneou ragerneot of th. navy ; at least two-thirds of them were (11.;••••t1I iii that say. Mr. vl•ti.s4),4 argued on the same side. and con tended dist the pensions granted to Masters in Chancery were the only profler held nut to Gentle men of practice and experience in the Law ac cept of the office. Si,. Jon,/ NEWPORT objected to the Resolutions prop,.ed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, wa., Oat they were worded too widely. The Repoli'. of his I lon. Frieod, Mr. Nlaitm, were wore •!..A",6 ilLontaioed these eentituctits s Inch niuq he approver) . of 1 y every honest and stMcitiht man in the empire, snider which ruseriderdt.on they should have •his support, and he was c,uvinced thi would meet the approbation of the Committee. The ItiAlit lion. Getitietnan (sir Join Nichol%) had Vint two-thirds of the ,irons of the Admiralty w. re given to the captors. lie would wish to kno-v what hervitte of those when toe au. v2rtintetit its , If ware the espors, %lieu fury wade legal priz..s of neuttal vi.vsels in their ports ; fur in.tatiee, the Danesond other neutrals, which had been mired ant confiscated in their rival? lie wished to know ttrudiotn the '2.3dt, on such ease.. went ? lie would not move any thing Ora would disturb the unanimity of the [louse ; hitt if there was any thing that wiiiihismake him 'anent more than amther, it would be tin attempt to do away with thee remlutio.is of his friends. Sir JOll4 N tcnot.t, and thy CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER spoke in explanation. Mr. 11. tat 1.4 G, disapproved of the system of grant ing licenses to vessels, as it went to increalie the patronage of the Crown. The CHANCELLoR of the EXCIICQUIIII denied that it did in any way increase it ; and if there were Any partiality Miewn hi granting licenses, it would be immediately discovered. Mr. BA RH AM contended, if there were only one day's prrference circa to two individuals, who ap plied for licenses, the one not preferred might be ruined. Mr. Gvoaaa Ross said, there could not be a fault attributed to g irerninelit, if one man applied for a license before number, unit bra request was granted first ; all he could say MA+, that if a person applied on a Tue,day, he was certion, if he war a prop,r persor. to be entrusted, to have his license on Wednesday. The Chairman then put the first resolution, which wry cnrrii , l unanimously. Mr. H..llet • . • ttr 1.11.1111110M1 his second ion, for tho total abolition of sinecure. ; but, under standing flint his lieu. Friend, Mr. Baeltes, ha resslution to pro;eise, in nio !Mention ol• that move•l by him, he would not wish to interfere, or enter upon rosy argument that would interrupt the unit . ty of the 11. , tise. Mr. Baum:, felt that he was taking on hinisef an unvacious office ; his object *u4 retreliAiWtoll. and he would put it to the tau•lour of the Coin rnitlee, were there not many things they might re trench ? Ought they not to shew the public. when in their power, they would retreoch ? Hr umbel to give ►very thing to the Crown that the public ser vice would admit of. lie wished it to be unritr wood, that he did nut mean levelling re mlutions, fir places of great trust should be well paid. Lie wished that the public money should not lw • wastefully employed, that it should not be given ' under the musk of official duty, without something was iwrformed fir it ; and whenever placss became non-clVient, they ought to be aholislied ; he did not ' want to see a man lolling at his live in the wealth wrung from the public, and mother person doilss his duty, who could never arrive to his situation. rhe Au:liter of the Exchequer • received 60,0001. per annum, yet he d•d not object to it; it was a place of great trust, and demanded great alnliiies, and the country required such a person. %V hat be objected to was, that it wail filled by a minor character than hint who hr•ld the sinecure. He would therefore move, by way of amendment, four Resolutions, to the folloaing effect:— •s That it was expedient that all einectsre place, should be abolished; and also those where the emolument was supe rior to the service performed except those situations which are immediately connected wills the Crawn sad the Royal after the removal of the present possessors, whom His Majesty might reward by peunies," He did not wish tile servants of the Crown to go unrewarded, but the present system gave the coun try no security. They had a striking instance late ly of how ainerure offices were di•postd of Hear! hear !/—lle did not wish to detract from the merits of the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Yorke) who wits the rortonnte m m ; but he ;mold oot se . e how his services could he put in competition with Lord Wellington's, whom the country were called on to pensimi off. As to what had been said of places in the gift of the Lord Chancellor, the act of the 39th of the King had prov;ded fur them. In his °photon the only mode to extinguish sinecure places was to give the Crown a limited power of granting pen sions; and he would undertake to aver, that the Hight Hon. (;euttenaan (Mr. Yorke) would not at this day be in possession of the emolument he was the') is the receipt of—(Hear ! hear !) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHFQUISR said, the proposition of the Right Honourable Gentle man was a new one ; as far as he mas concerned, he bad not any thing to complain of; hot he thought the Committee were not prepared to inert sod) a proposition, and hi. serious advice to them was, net to be talo-ii by surprise. He was determined it should not have the effect on hint. H. then quoted some paciages from Mr. Barke's speech on reform; one, in particular, whiiit stated, that it was necessary the Crown should have some means of rewarding its servants. Ile (Mr. Per cevel) was at a loss to understand if the resolu tions of the Hight Honourable Geutlemau (Mr. Bandies) were carried into effect, what security would there be that ally inmie should hr adopted to carry this grand measure into execution ?—(Hear! hear!)—:lon. Geatle.iwn were perfeely at liberty to cheer him, either as approving or dissoprovicg, hut this ails a fact th. y Cool I tot deny. It WAS agreed by all men the mischief of reform was the danger of a change ; what ft couiltry were aecus towed to, they were fund of. If a physician fano I a faiiit in the constitution of his patient, he would not put him ow a new regimen, became lie differed with him on a word; so with him, he (wild not agree with the Resulutirms of the Hoilourvltle Gentle man (Mr. Wilkes) because he tbotight the ward pension was h'ttcr than that of 4-tom)... Coedit the Committee be 9 opin.o.l, that even the great financial abilities .if his Ibiiaviiralile Friend wind I be able to satisfy them, how minty pensions riii i; ht or ought not to be gialited, or how many were lie c• !wary for the serviee ? He would not give %hat the Crown was in posse , s 7 ien to take up another s e v ttpa !licit lie haul nut security *nth. icrit (w -ile: cried into execution. He rc•gnr.it ii the flouae would maturely consider the resolotiou-, before they adopted the m . He could ant sec the principle, why the others the l'imen /Mould Ise guru to th ise who had pram d the most nteidonuus services. It had been ti , ;eul on a former occasion, that the place of Teller of the Exchequer might have been bestowed oo my Lord Wellington, but would not this go against the sys tem which the Bight Honourable Gentlemen (Mr. Blokes) opposed, that of reversion ? For. if it was elven to the N..ble Lord, the rev, trios) would be bestowed on his heir or successor. He (veld :int see why it see Sot jet •I v and honestly bestowed. —.l Ilene .1 hear !)—lf it bed been gives' to Mr. Yorke, when he sae Secretary at War, under another Administration, there would not have b cu au 411•jecti l• ll made. It would then be pleaded that three years' *civic. ti entitled him to it ;and why b houhl, he not be aa much entitled to it at the pre sent moment ? If that leig , h of service did not ea lithe loin to some ree:srit, he wished Hots. GM , lirineti to point out slier what period of service Meje.ty ought to reward hi. servants? (Ham hear.) Perhaps Hon. Gentlemen would rather argue it on the point of the length of time he was out of offitv, and contend that that sheered his demerit. (Hear, hear, frost the Treasury Bench.) He perfectly agreed with the Rt. Hoo. Gent. (Mr. Bankes,) on the ground of economy. and thought every saving should he made that wis not detri mental to the service of the country. Moch lied been said oo the increased influence of the Crown. He would contend it had not itiereased.—( Hear . 1 hear !) He wished to be understood he meant it had not increased proportionebly • with the riche, of the popular licit of the country. He con cluded by recoromendidg the Consusittie not to he taken by anew oe, but to take time before they ap. proved of such resolutions. For his own part. he totally di.apure, e I of them. Mr. Flamm spoke in explanation. and wished ' that rime should be granted, iu order to get the retvilotiong printed. Th. Ca incEt.l.nant the Ezcsrougu. Ale! some ob.ervatitil., stated his reaeburoo to accede to the prinovotion. Mr. %Vitt expressed much unwise at the accusation winch had h-en fliing at hie Hon. Friend (Mr. Bsakes) of his having taken the House by eurpr'ae. Such a charge was utiju.t ; for. it might he remembered, !hat. on the Bth of June I isr, he had brought in a bill for that Abolition of sine.core places, aid voted, that he woad, this Session. propose certain resolutions relative there to. But hit% motives might well be upbraided, and his conduct disapproved. when it. was tons eidered that a Right Honourable Gentleman (tie Chancellor of the Excheqeer.) had his owa reaso is for animadvert rag upon whet be would &ern profanation; when it was considered that the Right Him. Gentleman dimwit was • great here. (bury reversionist. one in the possess . on of most lucrative sinecure appoilitmesits, for oo services ren dered, for oho benefit te..eived. When dittos in his own po.serusion, and those bestowed by hies upon his friends were considered, the Right Roo. Gen tleman must feel himself in a most auk ward preali cement. Whatever might be the feelings or the opinions of the House with respect to this profusion of the public money upon the worthlete, his (Mr. W.'s) opinion was, that viuecures should be imme diately shollshed. He would only direct the Metes tiros of the House to the treatment which Me. Yorke had.rnet.ist artier tasomee threesome& - upon the undeserving. • Right Hosultett. l l2 said, that the practical saving of the public *obey was by no mesas great. that it was trivial ; bat supposing the sum of three hundred and sixty thousand a-year was appropriated in lieu of certain petty taxes. would it not be prudent, if each would be the eNect, to give up those standing nuistoros ? Mr. Yap ke vacated his seat for the purpose of accepting a sinecure. He then concluded that nothing wu necessary to re-establish him, bat his patriotic appea before his etcetera; but they altered their just indignation : they cast him from them with • noble seal. and never again should he be flattered by their approba tioo, or swollen by their praise. Was it not sheen that peitsions were given to Chancellors sad retired officers? It would be a nutter of wait difficulty to prove. that sinecures were not • bur den ; they had long been considered as not only of great weight hut of great disgust. He did not lll chide Mr. Burke in the number of the undeserving ; he would not enter into a question so irrelevant. because so contrasted ; whatever might have been the necessity of a system of economy in his time ; whatever might have been the system of inte grity ; the world must acknowledge that there existed now a necessity for a political economy. for • political penury ; and that the integrity. If exercised, was disavowed or misunderstood, and termed the plunderof the public moor, ; and threw who were the victims of delusion cried aloud, that if the money was not say, rl, the protracted war • could not he carried on. He was influenced by no party motives. If a man. such es hod lately sae in t hat Hour, (Mr. Fox,) was a candidate for its bouncy. he would be one of the first to join in and press ti a vote. But what could he say when Mr. Yorke and Lord W, Itington were proposed, and admitted to its Pecuniary distinction ? The Hoese ought to shake from itself that power of doing what was wrong. by freeing itself from the power of rewarding the unworthy. It was sufficient that the ability lay in Pirliament of remunerating any of the public serva n ts of the country who had sufistalitiated their clsinse to her approba tion. He del not wonder at the cry against taxes. \V.'s it not a cause of eggrainced irritation, that the money advanced to those sinecures was issued from the Exchequer, and that the Exchequer was sup. plied from these taxes? by this means supplying the idle end the servile from the hands of the iodi. cent aid the oppressed. A Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rose) acid, that the influence of the Crown was not increased. This was too palpable an absurdity ; the niere expmditure of the money occasioned an adilii ion to the influence of the crown. The local militia, too, increased it. The influence of the Crown came over the purest individu.d. If a nee tote.: unconcerned in the political weekkalet his fn-0, ...0,1 requested his interference in ferwomffissig ' my plan, the ailswer he would receive 11114 ge pro. cure an introduction to .tieii a greet sumss 'lmawill do s our hu.iiiete.." The tie of gratitude waisaterent from the obliged to the patron. sad was reward •d in fidelity in all his schemer. and adherence to all h.s meisimr.-s. The Crown should be fliveat.,l or id," influence. for the purpose of eeen•iii2 ta it the mightier jogai nee of the ee•mle, Mr. W hi:bread then demented the hatei sal mode of