The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-04-30 00:00:00

for church preferments, the extent and tendency of ' 1 which did not seem to have been fully perceived by the illostrious author of the restriftion, and which the Noble and Learned Lord strongly reprobated as of the most pernicious tendency. Ile had no fears of ton rapid a succession, or that through the ope ration of the Bill, the patronage of the laity would be improperly trenched upon. Lord ELLENISOROUGI I observed, as the ge neral sense of their Lordships appeared to be for going into a Committee, he should detain them very shortly. He was of opinion that it would be expe dtent to set some limitation to the acquisition of ad vowsons in such cases as the present. The House should consider that the Corporations in question were as trustees who purchased for their own be nefit; that they were not only donors but donees ; there obviously therefore existed reasons for some restraint, which did not exist in other Corporations. He must join with the Noble Lords and Raverend Prelates who reprobated that scandalous traffic in Church preferments so forcibly alluded to. He was fully aware how greatly preferable it would be to see such patronage vested in the Universities ; but even with reference to purchases, even from these quarters, he conceived , considering :he possibility of abuse, that some degree of restraint would even then be necessary. They should endeavour to find some certain ratio for apportioning the number of livings to that of the fellows of the respelive col leges. or rather of those who are capable of being beneficed, and therefore some words should be intro clewed to express that provision in the bill, as such persons as are elected, sr are capable of being elect ed." The Bishop of OXFORD, in reply, observed, that no fears need be entertained of too great an ac cumuLation of patronage on the part of the Univer sities, even were that likely to take place, as Par liament would always have it in their power to check the vicious excess; nay, to check the evil in the bud. He entered into some calculations as to the number of livings vested in different bodies. Of these, we understood the Rev. Prelate to say, that a less number than 71)0 were at the disposal of the Universities, and many of these of small value, oat of an aggregate of upwards of ten thousand livings. The Duke of NORFOLK said, that if he Bill were agreed to by the Committee, without t some li mitation or degree cf restraint introduced, he would certainly oppose it its some future stage. He conceit ed that the same reasons continued to operate which induced the Legislature, in its wisdom, in the year 173e3, to provide the restraint in question. The House then, after negativing the proposition of Lord Viscount SIDMONTH, resolved into a Com mittee on the Bill, and Lord WA LSINGHISSI having taken the Chair, the preamble was postponed, and the ens:ling clause entered into pro firma. It being settied between some of their L o rdships across the table that progress should be reported, and leave asked to sit again ; which being done, the Commit tee was directed to sit again on Wednesday.— Adjourned till to-inorrow. 0. , HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. CALCRAFT bosught up a Petition which, he said, VII, signed by 1,0911 heuscholdess and inh.ibitait; of the paridi of St. Panora., against ttse Bin now perching in the lionsu, re lative'te *at parish. That the mid Petition had Wen in his bands s rmt days, but Ittihad refrained ,froin bringing it forward, bec.ms.• the Member who first i..tinduced the WI having abandoned it be thought the Bill had been 'thug...cher given up: but basing beard an Hon. Barone t give notice a few days ago of his intuition to move the second nailing of the said 11,11, It became hisduty to take the present opportunity of present ing • his Petition, which was accordingly nail, and ordered to lie on ;he Table. Mr Williams. from the Commissioners r,f N a ul Inquiry, pre.. sewed at the Bar a copy of the Correspondence between the Ty-asurer of the Navy and the CntUtlliSeioll6ll of Naval In. gutty, not minded in the 10th Report. Mr. !Miriam, Item the Office of tlm Chief S evtary of Ireland, prr.eille t at the Bar an Account of the Houses tsar chased by Government in the immediate shinny of the Castle, forth.- purpos , of maki.ig fortitigations.--Ordered to lie on the Table, and to be prieted. Mr. Thrunhil:, from the office of the Chancellor of the Ex chequer in Ireland, presented at the Bar certain Pa,iers pursu ant to the Order of the House.—Or fend to lie on the Table. Mr. 11. THORNTON observed, that same time ago a Petition had been presented against Mr Maiswaring, which cannot use he heard, Sir F. Burdett having been returnerd as the sitting Mein's?, he gave notice therefore that he would to nsurrow move that the same bu dismiarged. MOTION F'.`R PAPERS. Sir A. HAMMOND gave notice at he would to - mor row move for certain papers relative to the Eleventh Report. Mr. GREY said, he thought this mode of giving notice of moving for papers, which the Hon. Baro net had adopted, was rather singular, and not very fair, as it was in such very general terms, that it was impossible to guess what the purpose could be for which they were to be produced. The other day, the Hon. Baronet had moved for a copy of his own letter to the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry, together with the inclosures therein contained. — He thought this a very extraordinary proceed ing. What had the House to do with the letter of the Honourable Baronet as an individual ? Nothing at all; and if the Hon. Baronet had any occasion to comment on the Eleventh Report, he might, as a Member of Parliament, do so, without moving in this general way for papers, of the drift and scope cf which no one could form a judg ment. It had, however, been supposed that these papers had been moved for, in order to convey a censure on Earl St. Vincent; and, as that Noble Earl had nn opportunity to vindicate his own cite raeter in that House, it was very necessary those who were his friends should have an opportunity of doing it, and he thought, therefore, the Hon. Baronet ought, in point of candour and fairness, to mate what the nature of these papers was, and the use intended to be made of them, in order that the friends of Earl St. Vinceat might move for other papers, that may be deemed necessary to thew the whole transaCtion in its true light, and that both parties might appear before the public on equal terms. He thought the Hon. Baronet had taken as unfair advantage, is having made his motion the other night at the time he diJ, and, if he had been present, he would certainly have opposed it. Sir A. HAMMOND denied having taken any advantage in the tune he made his Motion the other day. He had waited till near five o'clock, and the full the time he made it. He e moved for Honourable ed discus , of Na ptesent when he made his Motion, no blame could be imputable to him (Sir A. Hammond) on that account. Mr. TIERNEY said, the Balite was fixed to come on at four o'clock, and, according to the usage and custont of the House, a ballot was always un derstood to be the first thing that was proceeded on. Mr. Tierney was going on to state his being down won after four, when he was interrupted by The SPEAKER, who begged leave to remind the House that there was no question before them, and that of course such a conversation as this was altogether irregular. Mr. TIERNEY said, he should be sorry to be guilty of any irregularity ; but he owned he wished to know the objea of the papers moved for. Sir A. HAMMOND said, he had been accused of moving for papers without mentioning for what use or purpose ; but he could fairly appeal to the House, and remind them, that an Hon. Gentleman opposite to him had some time past moved for a great mass of Papers without near so much mention or specification as he had made. Mr. GREY said, that on Friday last, when the Hon. Bart. made the Motion to which he had alluded, the ballot was the first objed that was fixed for the consideration of the House. and when he heard that come on, he thought he had been present at the commencement of the business. He waited till a very late hour, in expectation of some such motion being to be made, and, to his great surprise, learned afterwards, that the Hon. Baronet had made his motion before the ballot came on. It was of this he complained in the first instance, and, in the next of the general and indefinite terms in which the motion was couched, vie. A Copy of the Hon. Baronet's own letter, and the inclosures therein contained, without saying what those were—what their tendency—or for what purpose they were moved. He looked on it to be intended as an at tack on the Noble Lord he had mentioned, whose character stood so high with the public, as to be above the dread of any attack ; but as he would wish to have the benefit of all such documents as might tend to clear it from all aspersions or insinu ations, it was impossible he could move for them, without knowing the tendency of those documents moved for by the Hon. Baronet. It was, therefore, at present the inclination of his mind to move to expunge that Motion, as he thought the whole course of the proceeding perfectly uncandid and unfair. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he wished the Hon. Gentleman who had jolt sat down, would move to expunge the order which had been made on the Hun. Baronet's motion ; hut he would advise bins first to recollect, and consider what that motion was. He would then find that it was for a copy of a letter from the Comptroller of the Navy, to the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry, together with certain papers therein contained. This letter was written for the purpose of explain ing his conduct relative to certain transattians, of which they complained, and the papers inclosed were meant to elucidate the stnjet. How was it passible for the Hon. Baronet to exculpate himself otherwise, and why was he to be censured for having made his motion, because it happened to bear against a Noble Earl, whom the lion. Gentle man had described to be above all inquiry. He thought the Hon. Gentleman should recoilea, that the Papers against which the Hon. Baronet meant to justify his conduct, had been for some time before the public, and might have made an unfavourable impression against him. It was therefore very na tural he shoved wish to vindicate his charaCter, and he could not do so but by moving for the Papers which immediately related to the transaction. Mr. GREY said, God forbid he should objet to the produ6tion of Papers that were actually neces sary for any mm's justification. He only com plained of the Hon. Baronet for having moved ge nerally for his own letter, with inclosures, without s ecifying what the documents are which were in closed, and he repeated that he thought this not only unfair, but unprecedented. He did not know of any case of a similar nature. If any person can, by writing a letter to the Admiralty, get it, by mo tion,laid on the table of that House, nothing would be easier than to make that a medium of circulating libels of the most serious kind, and to an) extent. Public rumour led him to suppose that this was meant as an attack on the Noble Earl to whom he had alluded ; and, as one of his friends, he wished to be able to vindicate him against it. The Right Hon. Gentleman had represented him as having - said the Noble Earl was above inquiry, but he had said no such thing. On the contrary, he said that the Noble caul was above all attack, and challenged inquiry. Sir A. HAMMOND said , the lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, objected to his having moved for a copy of his own letter, because he w as a Member of Parliament ; he could not see it in this light at all. He would, therefore, stare to the House his reason for doing this. The whole of the Eleventh Report was against the Comptroller of the 'Navy, which important office he had the honour to fill. fie wrote to the Commissioners cm the sublet.. inclosed them documents to prove what he said, and offered to be re-examined by them. Their answer WAS, that having submitted their report to the Legis lature, theycould not take upon them to hear him any further on the sublet. To this determination he had submitted ; and as the situation of Comptroller of the Navy was subordinate to the Admiralty, he had writ ten to the Lords of that Board, in order to exculpate himself. and had inclosed in them the documents he had antecedently sent to the Commissioners. This ha had done, as he and the Earl of St. Vincent were in suc i a situation as a man of honour cannot re tain without justifying himself. As he had under stood the Eleventh Report was to be brought under the consideration of the House, he had moved for those Papers, in order to their being printed and laid before the public eye, the same as the Report had been. Mr. CREF.VY here broke in upon the argument by observing that, in the present momentous and eventful crisis, when the enemy's fleets were said to be every where in motion ; and, it was necessary there should be some person responsible for the con dna and management of our own ; he felt it his duty. then, to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether that high and important office of First Lord was get fi lled up, or, whether it still remain ed vacant The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered, that in the next Gazette it would appear that office was fille up, ad that the saceessr of Lord Melville was d perso n n every way quadlifieod to till thit high station. Ile believed this would he universally allowed when he mentioned the name of Sir Charles Middleton. Mr. W. DICKINSON brought up a copy of the letter from the Comptroller of the Navy to the Commissioners of Naval inquiry, together with the inclosures therein contained, pursuant to the order of the House. On the question, that the title of the papers be read, there appeared to be none to the several inclosures. It was then moved, that the papers be printed ; on which, Mr. GREY rose, and submitted to the House whether this was a fair proceeding ? even now they could not tell what the papers were, for there was no title to them. Mr. TIERNEY observed, that the Hon. Bart. had said, either be or the Noble Earl was in such a situation as a man of honour cannot maintain ; if so, it was certainly necessary the matter should be fully and fairly investigated. He wished therefore the papers might be permitted to lie on the table for two days previous to their being printed, in order that his noble friend might not be condemned un heard. If the business was to be brought before Committee, then justice would be done to both par ties ; but in this way, a complete defence world be made on one side, and all the seeming blame would remain on the other party. He should, thetefore, ohjed to the papers being printed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEOUER said, he thought the deduction of the Hon. ilentle man a very extraordinary one. There has already been produced a paper, which has been for a con sideraltle time before the House, and the public, charging the Comptroller of the Navy with a consi derable degree of culpability in his official station, and that of great responsibility; he moves for a paper to exculpate himself from the chtrge, and to which the Noble Earl can have an opportunity to answer; and for so doing—for an endeavour to jus tify himself in the eye of the public, he is accused of having :idea unprecedently and unfairly. As to the objedion to papers being produced, which may convey an ex parte impression, it can have no weight, for that sort of impression is more likely to have been made on the other side. Previous to any mo tion, the Comptroller of the Navy wishes to have papers that will exculpate him ; and the complaint now is, that the terms of the motion for these pa pers are not explicit enough. He was sure the House would recoiled instances of late, where motions had been made, and even notices changed the very next day after they were given, by Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite said of the House. He therefore moved that the papers be read. Mt. FOX observed, that the House had fallen into an irregularity the most extraordinary he had ever heard of. The Hon. Baronet fancies himself injured by the Report of the Commissioners, he therefore movee for a copy of his own letter, with the inclosures. What are they ? He should have stated what the documents were, and then the House could have jndged fairly. He lamented he WAS not present when the motion was made for these papers, or he should have objected to it at the time. As the letter was the least part, and the inciostues most important, he should have stated their nature and tendency, and given them some title, that the other party might have had the opportunity of mov ing fur other documents to countered them. To have the comment when you cannot have the text, was what he thought unfair, and would place the House of Commons in a very inconvenient predica ment. The Right Honourable Gentleman had oh jedesi to an Honourable Member near him having made two motions on the same subjcd. This might not be agreeable to the eagerness of those who wished to screen delinquents (a cry of bear ! hear ! hcor ! ) ; those who were of opinion Lord Melville had not violated the law, but was only guilty in that degree, as might be the opinion of the Committee of which he supposed they should have the names that night (a lond and general cry if hear! hear! bear.' ). Whether it was or was not Agreeable, the justice of the House required that Papers should not be printed which the other party could not counterad. He denied that his Hen, Friend (Mr. Grey) had ever said Earl St. Vincent was above inquiry ; no man ought to be so ; but he was sure the Noble Iterl's chat ader was above re proach, and, till a fair inquiry take place, it ought to be protected by the House. Now, said he, these documents have been produced, what are they ? Documents in Sir A. Hammond's letter, without name or title. The Right Hon. Gentleman has saki they were consistent: how does he find it out? for his part, he could not. He slid not care much whe ther they were printed or not ; but he thought tee House had got into a difficult situation, from an irregularity. Mr. W. DICKINSON said, the Papers would be named. One was a letter from Sir A. Ham. mond, another from Mr. Tucker, and the others all numbered, so as to be very well understood. Mr. G. PONSONBY said, the Right Hun. Gent. had moved that the Papers be read, but that cellist not be, for they had no titles. The Hon. Baronet has told the House, that the Report of the Naval Commissioners is against his charatler ; that he wishes to have that chereder cleared, and therefore has moved for these papers, as he or Earl St. Vin cent is in a situation which a man of horear can not submit to remain in. Here is a direst attack on the chara&er of Earl St. Vincent, and therefore he ought to have an opportunity of justifying himself ; and in order to do that, the justice of the House re quired that documents of any sort sbou'd he so Clearly defined, as to enable Fall St. Vincent to move for such other Papers as may be necessary to enable him to defend himself. The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, he had cast his eye over the introductory letter of the Ho nourable Baronet, and he finds by it, that he had been blamed for not having made communication of certain circumstances to the First Lord under whom he eded. The Honourable Baronet hid of fered to go once more before the Commissioners, but was not permitted so to do. The papers re lic:bag on the Honourable Baronet had been long on the table, and must of course opera'c against him, and 1w could not see how papers exculpatory of the Honourable Baronet should be more urjests than against Earl St.Vincenr. He thought therefore the papers ought to be read, and then the House would know their contents. kit. GREY complained that it had been uni- ---- . , persuading them t. ~s leer him wished to prey* t.. -,rent f tcln the produaiou of Otireratitt... ,sillbiciftV say c essary to vindicate bas der. 1i ! was t the case ; there was no Armament he wished lb keep back, but would on ectntrary have all come for ward. These, how , Were of that extraordirtary kind, that no one knew what they were They should be fairly described, in order that the other party might move for such other papers as would cone terael them, and thus both parties come into the field on the same terms. it was necessary also b lonk to dates ; the Eleventh Report was ordered to be printed on the I I th of March, and it was not till the 2.2 d of Aptil that Sir A. Hammond wrote to the Admiralty, from which he thought it was a fair inference that he w.* •te them for the purpose of after wards moving for those papers. He had no appre hension these papers could do any harm to Eat lii, Vincent, bur he thought them too undefined. • Sir A. 1-I.AMMON 1) said, it was very late ia, March before he saw the 1 Rh Report, and in a day or two afterwards he wrote to the Commissioner's Ilis letter W:IS WI itten on the Ist of A; r 1, aid he de, livered it himself. Not receiving an molter foe some time, he communicated to the Board over which he presides, what he had dom.. He received a letter from the Commissioners on the 19th el Aptil, and on the 9.2 d of the same month f.e mote to the Admiralty. He could not have written a day sooner. Mr. KINN AI RD said, the Hon. Baronet had referred to him as having made a motion for papers without specifying the same; but, he denied the felt, and aprealed to the House far the truth of hie , as .ertion . The question was then put, and the Papers were ordered to be read. They consisted of lettere, IT •:., No. I, to I'd. The first, or Nu. I. is the lets', ihd ed 212 d April, 1501, from Sir A. Hammond to the Admiralty, in which he declares that he has o so, documents to prove that Earl St. Vincent had a knowledge of what, in his examination before the Commissioners, he says he had not. Inclosed in No. 1, is No. 4 2, velt:ch was a Copy of an Order II om Lord Hobart to Sir A. Hammond, relative tie choakin up the harbour of Boulogne. No. 3, a Copy of - a Letter from the Earl of St. Vincent to Sir A. Hammond, acknowledging the receipt of his let.• ter, informing him of the oi der emceed to his care„ which, he u nibts not, will be Ably performed; but as he informs him that the whole expense is to be defrayed by the Treasure, he saw no reason whi 1 1 any communication should haws been made con cerning it to the Admiralty. H.:, therefore, return the letter, &c. to Sir A. Hammond. The othe numbers are letters,from Mr.,.1. &dhows to Sit A . Hammond, relative to the said expedition agains Boulogne; till No. 11, which is Sir A. Hammond'' letter to the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry. On the gees-inn that the papers be printed; Mr. TIERN EY rose, and said, the House muo be aware of the dark insinuation which was aimed a• the high and eealtel charaaer of the Earl of St Vincent. viz. that he had been guilty es' wilful pen jury. Every one who really knew that Noble Earl, InuSk Tialrealk-'hortn iiii;amailou with indignation, and at the same time with contempta. far it :mid not b supposed, that in +Mat he slid heisct alluded to fir mere knowledge of the efteeditiois itsel% and the he knew nothing of that , but merely that lAA, not know any thing of the money waich teas t. defray the expense of it. For his owl, v.:, I- t Was at the tune in such a situation, t:.,.t !, I could take upon him to aurora- from Isis oo• . personal knowledge, that the Earl**. St. Were' had never,.direetly or indirealy, eteuttenancid th i application of money voted for the service of th i Navy, to defray the expellee ni any other seryjc , , but had always protested avast such applicatioa , money voted fur the Noy to any secret service neither did he euthenist any officer in the service t under, Ike such an expedition. On the contraio he bad expressed hio opinion that it should be left ton the smugglers, wean were better acquaintedirith the coast, and sintation of the harbour of Boulogne. He would r.ot say but that Lard Keith might have been authorised to convoy any vessel that was destined for that expedition, by Adininis. tration ~ but he knew no Naval Officer was to be emplr.yed in it by his consent. He alluded to the qui.otion put to Earl St. Vincent by the Commis inmers—and insisted that, in his answer, he new meant to swear he knew nothing about the moefel, for, on Sir A. Hammond informing him of the, order he had received, he returned for answer, that " he had received his letter of yesterday, with a copy of 'the order, which he had no doubt would he fait& fully executed ; but, as the whole expense wa: to be paid by the treasury, he saw no reams:, Way s'e bar siness should have been communicated to the Aloe ralty, and therefore returned him his letter, order" &c. Was it possible, said Mr. Tierney, for any man more distinaly to wash his hands of any ' • ness, than Earl St. Vincent did of this ? and he , insist II that Earl St. Vincent never direaly or inpat gave his consent to the espenee of :he execdition. His precise situation was this ; as a seaman he his advice on the probability or power of ch Boulogne Harbour ; hut, as a faithful to • and steward of the pu'ilic to Inc'. - he had reins/du appropriate any part of what Parliament had signed for the naval service, to be expeaded in of other service.. Mr. CANNING said, he thought fail St. V cent had been incorrea in his evidence. Mr. FOX said, the Ruda Hon. Gent. hal papers to produce, he was sure there wasn. f i , V in i o n r c e en ra t' ir s f in rie de nci c s ia c r o i u l Td :• I‘ i.:lll t . lic lf d t id hey thu' ltta n d 111:3 : 1 '. in these that could militate against the Noble I!!! The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIIEV , said, he thought, plainly , that Earl St. Vioc. knew of ihe transaftion, and had, no (I‘j • but that of di vert ing naval money to defray pence' of other services. Mr. GREY said, the Nnhl e Earl, it was• knew of Secret Service ; but. wh..n que3ront, sett, jAil Naval Money, he denied that h e knew of,Ai t i 'lgli appropriated to any other ser s-,ce then w'S been voted for. . 1 ' wa h s t n r. ot N o V n A l y L t L . A ta et ke tl?e i Funds. Mr. GREY positively den ied that. c‘ serri tt t t , S b i u r t A to . i,fil: tvntdree.si Tue Cletk of the House then read the twold be and _ f 3 Mottle was very full at the time he made it bad also plainly told the Howe that he mov these Pape►s AS necessary to be read by Iloilo Members previous to any consideration and i Won of the 1 ith Report of the Cortisnissioners val Inquiry. If the lion. Gent. WAS not pteseu _ 411110"Alto.Aft ~. formly the endeaveit incn on the opposite I ' a "f