The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-03-26 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE 01! LORDS.--NUOIDAY, MARCO In Counsel were farther heard on the Appeal Came, Moaned 0. Kinlogic, Bart. To proceed again to morrow. The Royal Ardent was g;ven b• Com niweiar to the Exche quer Bala Ball, the Sugar Duties Draw Bark, the Spirits Ware housing, and the Expiai g Laws Rill, also to the Irish Stani DOWN, Posters Rates, Malt Tax, Facise Duties, Customs Re Irtlation, Pronsiwwv Notes, and Sugar Bounties Draw Back Bills, and to thtex Private 80.. The Lords Coinmissinner. were the Archbishop of Canter bury (fine tinte of lin Grace's sitting, the Lord Chancellor, and 1,0r.1 Walsinghem. ROMAN CATHOLICS OF IRELAND. • After the Bills upon the table were forwarded, and some routine business disposed of, the order for summoning their Lordships was read. Upon a Lord GRENVILLF. rose and said ---gg Nly Lords, I have in my hand a pe-ition from certain of His Majesty's Homan Catholic Subjects in Ireland, pro fessing the Roman Catholic Religion, whose names are thereunto subscribed, and I move that it be now read " The oetirion was accordingly Lead by Mr. Ro s e, the Rea sing Clerk. (For a correct copy see the Commons ) Lord GRENVILLE then said —" I rise to move your Lordships. that this Petition do now lie on the Table. I have already told von, that with respell to any Motion for taking the Petition into considera tion, ample notice s!:oold I.e given. I now tr etely move, that this Petition do lie on the Table." Lord AUCKLAND observed, that, as far as he understood the prayerc.f tl..x Petition, it was far a full participation of cw•ry right, franchise, and every of ficial situation wlec:r now existed under the Consti tution of this country ; in that event, their Lord ships would see established in this kingdom a Pro testant King, a Protestant Hierarchy, established by law, together with Popish Legislators. He did not mean to say, that thi , , in point of fad, would be the case, or that he feared it; but, theoretically, such may very possibly be the result. As th:. great and important questions, involved in the Petition, bad been regularly brought under the notice of Par liament, he hoped it would be agitated completely, and the subjed radically discussed, but, at the same time, dispassionately, for that was a consideration of great importance. Nuw 'hat it was brought for ward, it was their duty to discuss the subject tho roughly ; for Isis part, he should proceed, when the question should come under consideration, coolly and dispassionately, to its discussion ; it certainly ' was of the greatest importance, and one which in volved the barriers and fortifications of the Church and State. He should assist in the discussion as far as his limited talents and ability would allow 1 im; and he had to express his earnest wish, that what ever was intended to be brought forward ou the subject, would be proposed without any unnecessary • delay. Lord GRENVILLE said, it was not his wish, then, to other a word in the way of argument, on • the substance of the Petition ; he certainly w ould, when the subject should be brought forward for consideration, assist in the discussion of its me rit, to the best of his poor abilities; and he assured their Lordships, it should be disp.u.siottattly argued toy him. He hoped them most tempos and modera tion would prevail. The sohjed was by no means then under consideration; and, whatever play be said to induce any premature discussion of the sub jed, was, so far, ill-timod. He should then say no snort respelling the Petition; but repeat his wish, that on premature discussion may arise. Lord HAWK ES BI; RY expressed has wish, that psi discussion might take place in the present stage of the bueness, particularly alter n hat had fallen • from the Noble Baror. who spoke last. For his own part. he considered the right of petitioning as one which extended to every class of Flu; Majesty's sub j.cds. He had nn objedion to the mere tender of a Petition, with two provisoes ; first, that it related to a topic which it was within the jurisdietion of the lip.. Noose to aft upon ; and, secondly, if it WAS couch tad in terms sufficiently decent and respenful. No other consideration should prevent him from con curring in a motion for a Petition lying on the table. The expediency or inexpediency of any farther pro ceedingwas of courseaperlealydistinCt consideration. In the present instance, he was ready to admit, that nothing indecent or disrespettful to the House ap peared in the manner of the petition being drawn up. He should, therefore, feel no objeCtion to the Noble Baron's motion, that the petition do now lie on the table. At the same time, he must say, that he entirely concurred with the NoLle Lsrd, in de precating all premature discussion of the subjeft.— But, as from what he could draw from tl.e petition, as well as in reference to the professed consideration of the question—he felt it due to the House, to the puhlic, and, in instice to the parties themselves, then to declare that, if any motion should be made for giving effect to the prayer of the Petition, he, for the reasons which he should then state, and not till then, should feel it his duty to resist it. Lord GRENVILLE said, he only rose, that it may be distinctly understood, that it was his inten tion to bring forward the subject of the Petition and its prayer to the consideration of the House, and that with as little interval of delay as tne circum stances of the ease would admit. The question was then put, and the Petition f nem. .liu.) ordered to lie on the table. The Duke of NORFOLK observed, he was aware it was not usual to have Petitions printed. However he thought, on account of the magni tude and importance of the present case, that just presented should be printed for the tt,e of their Lordships. In urging this, he meant not to offer the least opinion as to its merits ; and he regretted that any of their Lordships, particularly a memLer of His Majesty's Cabinet, should have so premature- It declared a determinati , n to oppose. He then moved that the Petition be printed for the use of their Lordships. The LORD CHANCELLOR stated,that he knew of ne order against the proceeding recommended by the Noble Duke; on the other hand. he knew no precedent of the kind. With respect to the special importance of the subject, he thought it would he eut%cient to induce Noble Lords to come Jown and peruse the document in question. He seemed to disapprove of prin. the Petition. The - 'le motion, without disapprove of printing the Petition The question was put, and the farther observation, negatived. NAVAT. ENQUIRY. The Duke of CLARENCE addressed a few ob servations to their Lordships on this subject, and stated his intention to move to discharge the order for summoning their Lordships to-morrow, relative thereto, as he understood a Noble Viscount intend ed to move for some documents which would tend to the further elucidat;on of the subject. He ad verted to the ci•cumstance of a Noble Earl having originally come forward on the subject, whom he conceived a fitter person, in the first instance, on the occasion, than himsell llis Royal Highness con cluded by moving, that the order for summoning their Lordships to-morrow be discharged, which was ordered accordingly. And after a few wores from the Earl of DARNLEY, on the subject of ar rangement, and his wish to accommodate Noble Lords, the I louse was, upon his Lordship's motion, ordered to be summoned for Fritiay next. MR. JUSTICE FOX. Lord AUCKLAND, agreeably to the notice he had given, brought forward some farther proposi tions in reference to the pending case of this Ma gistrate. After some general observations, as to the peculiar importance of the case, the necessity which existed fur their Lordships deciding upon it with the utmost caution and deliberation, with a view equally to the correfthess of their own pro ceedings, as well as to the importance of the case in the way of precedent, and, adverting to the circum stance of the proceedings in the Committee being adjourned till the beginning of May, against which period, their Lordships may he furnished with the necessary information of advice upon the point, moved to the general effeifl, that " the case against Mr. Justice 1-ox. the charges alleged, and steps taken in consequence, he referred to the consider ation of the Judges fur their opinion of the same ; and whether the case, as it stood, could, consistently with the relevant Afls and usage of Parliament, be farther proceeded in that House, and in that manner." The LORD CHANCELLOR did not then wish to offer any opinion as to the substance of his Noble Friend's Motion, but he recommended that the con sideration of such a proposition should be deterred for a few days. On the first view of it. they should hesitate ere they agreed tr, put such a proposition to the Judges, as containing points upon which he, for one, perhaps, could have ro doubt. He shonld, however, in the interval he meant to propose, pay a most sedulous attention to the Precedents, and to the Records on the.fournals. It certainly required some deliberation, as possibly, by taking such a step pre cipitately, they may advance briber in error. After considering rite prvo:ition in a variety of legal points of view, in the course of which he deprecated the put ting such questions to the Learned Judges without further inquiry and deliberation ; he moved, that the further consideration of the Motion be adjourned titl dils day se'nni2ht. Lord GRENVILLE did not mean to oppose the amendment of the Noble and Learned Lord, but agreed in favour of a great deal of what fell front the Noble Lrd who opened the discussion. He contended, t it sooner than persist in error, they should, if found necessary. tread back their steps ; and he hoped, that ne fear or imputed inconsistency I would deter them from doing that which they should find to be right. He thought it would he proper to take the opinion of the Judges on the occasion, who, it should be recolleael, had. officially, seats in that House. No objeaion would be urged, he thought, to the Noble and Learned Lord'. amend ing the language of the proposition, as he should deem proper ; and, after adverting to what he conceived a difference in the line of argument then adopted by the Learned Lord, and what he had urged on former occasions, observed. that he should not hesitate to follow that line of condua adopted by Lord Chancellor Clarendon, on an occasion nearly similar, who resorted for information and advice to that quarter, which the usage of that House, and the Constitution, equally pointed out as the most eligible in such cases. Lord H A W K I.* S BURY conceived, that the pro ceedings then before their Lordships were not upon an address to His Majesty, for the removal of a Judge; but the question was, what proceedings should be had previous to such an address ? Those proceedings, so far as they had gone, he conceived, must be either substantially right, or formally wrong; and the very learned and elaborate argu ment of the Noble Baron (Lord Grenville), and the several eases which he had cited in support of that argument, were by no means in point. but were quite distina and separate from the question before their Lordships. With great respeft and deference to the Noble Baron, he considered it rather a quibble upon the question, than an argument grounded upon sound principles and the stritt justice of the case. He contended, that the proceedings hitherto had been regularly and formally right. Their Lordships could. pursue no other course; he, therefore, thought the consideration of the question should be postponed for some days, in order to afford an opportunity of digesting the subject. The LORD CHANCELLOR explained. Lord AUCKLAND and Lord GRENVILLR severally explained : the latter went into an explanation of considerable length, in which he took a survey of the greater part of the several cases he had before cited, in the course of which his Lordship was called to order by the Loan Cm aucaccoa. The Duke of CLARENCE rose to Order ;• he observed that the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack had called his Noble Friend to Order for the very thing which he himself had repeatedly practised in the course of the debate. The Learned Lord had frequently made his own observations upon the question before the House, and now re fused his Noble Friend the same privilege, whose talents were not only an ornament to that House, but to the country at large. The Loser CNANCILI on again explained, and Lori GsouvuLLr. conclo.• I his obtervations. Lord ELLENBOROLIGH conceived that the question befiire the House was, not whether their Lordships were to address li:s Majesty for the re moval of one of the Judges, but whether their Lord ships would take the opinion of the Leartiect Judges, as to the manner of their future proceed'ns ? His Lordship bad no objeaion to his Learned Friend's wish to postpone the consideration of the question for some days, as in truth he thought it but right they should take time upon so important a pro ceeding; but the impression upon his mind was that, before any address should be presented to His 4` Majesty, the question should be tried by a Coui t of Law, and Mr. Justice Fox should be e t Itr folind guilty, or acquitted, of the charges laid against him, by the verdiCl of twelve honest, and upright men. The regular proceedings should be had upon that verdict, a writ of error should be brat ht, and the verdid either affirmed or reversed ; if the former, then the matter would come properly before their Lordships. His Lordship then went into some ob servations of considerable length, upon proceedings by impeachment, which he considered would be the most preferable mode. He expressed a strong de sire that the opinion of the Learned Judges should be taken upon the question. It was by no means beneath the dignity of that House, or at all deroga tory to their Lordships' privileges, to take such an opinion. It was for such purposes the Learned Judges sat in that House, and he trusted their Lordships would resort to them, who were so very competent to give their Lordships the necessary as sistance. His Lordship, in conclusion, made some observations upon the cases cited by Lord Grenville ; and requested, it he had mis-stated or misconceived any of them, the Noble Lord would set him right. Lord GRENV I LLE then read the case of Bridg man against Lord Chief Justice Holt, for the satis faiion of Lord Ellenborough, which case his Lordship had chiefly relied upon. The cause ori- ' ginated in the refusal of the Chief Justice to re ceive a bill of exceptions which had been tendered to him. 'I he (Luc -thin for postponing the further consider ation of the matter until this day se'nnight was then put, and carried without a division.—Ad 'pursed to to-morrow. MUSE OF COMMONS. Tlie Lividon Bread Rev dAti.it Sill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. A M. :-age fr mi the ',old- med the House, that their Lord.iiips had agreed to the Irish Customs Bill. the I. xcise Dime., the P.Krage Duties, the Stamp Duties, the Malt and Spirit Daties, Sugar Drawback Bill, the English Exche quer Bills Bill, Promissory Note Bill, and Expiring Laws Bill, without any Amendment.. Mr. Steilinati, trims the Stamp Office, presented at the Bur an Account, containing the balances in the hands of the Col lectors of 01, St 1.11? Duties; which was ordered to lie un the Table. The SPEAKER acquainted the Howe, that he had been in the Homo of Lards, vriiere the Royal Avseut had been given by Comnisvion to several Rills ; for which see the LIM, Leave was given to withdraw the Irish Election Bill, and to present another; which was trade first time. hfr.JA NES nTZGERAILD moved far leave to bring in a Bill for the more any partition of Land suldeet to the right of Common In Inland —Granted. Mr. JAMES FITZGERALD then moved, that there should be Laid befiere the 'louse, Copies of the Kitent., by which the Commiasioners of the Treasury in Ireland he'd their offices, and a list of the person' s° appointed, and of the sums paid to each, and the warrants for paying them the money or salaries they have received, anil also an Account of the number of per. Ikme having compensation in lieu of salaries, and the fund from which they were paid —Ordered. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the Conn• snifter eg Wass and Means; and, on the Question being put, that t .e Rearilioiolis he read a second tim,, Lord HENRY PF.TTY said, he disaked very much the Dm% un Auelmos, as it would fall heavy on persons who went sinfort,mate enough to have their goods sold under executiutis. conatelcred the present duty of 12 p:r cent. was full enough without an i,lditi,vn Mr RA sfARD obi,cted to the duty being laid on the stock in hinds of Cvder and Perry, awl, after some explanation by Mt Pat, the tesulutwins were read and agreed to . The House resnlved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the American Treaty Ant. - . Leave was obtained by Mr. Rose to bring in *Bill for renew ink the Treaty of Amity, Cumnimee, and Navigation, with the United States of America fur one year loafer. The House rnolved Itself unto a Cemmit•ee of the whole Hwise on the 0n'..0 of Connell relative to the trade with Spain. l.ea:•n was given to bring in a Bill for the purpose of allowing trade and commerce to be carried on between this country and Spain Mr. Fi tSI'ER gave notice, that on Wtdneulay next he should more for leave to bring in a Bill for repairing the Mail Coach Road• in Ireland. General W ‘LPOI.F. gave notice of his intention on a fu ture day to bring f o rward a Motion relative to Prize Money of the ships taken off Toulon in the last war. Mr. PITT sand, he understood the money was now actually in a course of payment, acid that the lion. Member might sa tisfy himself by 3*PilIC the account, and then, if he thought proper, he could brin g forward his Motion on a future day. General WALPOLE said, he would look at the accounts, and for the present suspend his intention. CATHOLIC PETITION. Mr. FOX said, he never rose in that House with more diffidence and anxiety than on the present oc casion, when he had to present a Petition from the great body of the Roman Catholics in Ireland, praying to be relieved from the various disabilities under which they at present laboured. He moved that the said Petition be brought up; which was ordered. The Petition was then read. It was as follows : To the Right lionotireble end litneeerahlt the ite;ghts, (linens, Boa'vises, .y . the United Kingdom .j Glees Bridge/I end Ire. lota, Ptirlieinint esotahtell. The humble Petaion of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, whtloc times are hereunto subsciibed, ou Behalf of themselves and of others Ho Majesty's Subjects, prof.,..ing the Roman Catholic Religion, Sheweth—.:that your Petitioners are steadfastly attached to the Person, Family, and Government, of their Most Gra cious Sovereign; that they are impressed with sentiments of oer•innate gratitude for the benign laws which have been enacted far meliorating their condition during his paternal reign, and that they contemplat , , with rational and decided predilection, the admirable principles of the B h Consti tution. Your Petitioners most humbly state, that they have, so lemnly and publicly, taken the oaths by law prescribed to His Majesty's Roman Catholic Subjects, as tests of political and moral principles; and they confidently appeal to the sullerints which they have long endured, and the sacrifices which they still make, rather than violate their consciences (by taking oaths of a religious or spiritual import contrary to their !belief), as deci.ire proofs of their profound and scrupulous reverence fur the sacred obliation of an Guth. Your Petit ttttt er. beg leave to represent that by those awful te,ts they bind themselves, in the presence of the all seeing Deity, whom all classes of Christians adore, " to be faithful " and bear true allegiance to their most gracious Sovereign " LurJ King George the Thud, and him to defend to the ut 1T1U44 of their power against all conspiracies and attempts " what-rover that shall be made against his person, crown, " or dignity , to de their utmost endeavours to di,close and " make known to His Majesty and bis heirs a 9 treasons " and traitorous conspiracies which may he formed against rs h o w or them, and faithfully to maintain, support, and de " fend, to the utmost of their poster, the succession to " the Crown in His Majesty's family apir.st any p ew " or persons whatsoever."—" That, by thane oaths, m ei " renounce and abjure obedience and allegiance unto" *t other person claiming or pretending a right to the Cie% of this Realm :—that they reject and detest,..as unchristiag, " and impi ous t o b e li eve, that it is lawful in any ways s o " injure any person or persons whatio:!ver under pretence If " their being Heretics, and also that urielinstian and im " pious principle,—that no faith is to be kept with Heretics; " that it is no article of their faith, and that they renounce, " reject, and ahjore the opinion, that Princes, excommum• rr rated by the Pope and Council, or by any antoority Mut. " sumer, may be depescd or murder. d by their subject', " by any person whatsoever; that they do n o t believe it. t " the Pope of Rome, or any other foreign " Prelate, State, or Potentate, hath or ought to bra e " any temporal or civil jurisdiction, power, supeiioritr, ur sr preeminence, within this realm ; that they firmly believe, " that no act, in itself unjust, immoral, or wicked, cm era " be justified or excused b., or under pretenc • or colv.r, t st •' it Was done for the meet of the Church, or in o!,, ,t .• t' r t " ally Ecclesiastical Power whatsoever ; and that it is 1-.4 , " Article of the Catholic Faith, neither are they they, hr " (mired to believe o r p ro f, s' , t h at the Pipe is iiirall i te e , " that they are bound to any order, in its owl; 1.41. re 1611110,111, " though the Pope or any Ecclesiastical Power should ifilllt44 " direct such order; but, that, on the contrary, they hold, " that it would he sinful in them to pay ally respect or abode " ence thereto; that they do not believe, that any sin ohn r. soever,coninsitted by them, call b.: forgiven at the 13i,ril Vlll " of airy Pope or of any Priest, or of aiiy person or p e n,, " whatsoever but that any person, who receives &twilit. r• lion, without a sincere sorrow fee such iin, and a firm arid rr sincere resolution to avoid future guilt, and to moue is " God, so far fi.ini obtaining thereby any reinismon of home, " incurs the additional guilt of violating a sacrament; MI, r• by the same solemn °Algal ion, " they are bound asel firmly " pledged to defend, to the utmost of their power, the set. " dement and arrangement of property in their cuti-itiy, " established by the laws now in being ; that they have its. " claimed, disavowed, and solemnly abjured any intention to " subvert the present Church estahlithrnent fur the purpose of " substituting a Catholic establishment in its stead ;" and that they have also solemnly sworn, " that they will not exercise " any privilege, to which they are nr may become entitled, to " disturb or weaken the Protestant Religion or Protestant Go. " 'eminent in Ireland." Your Petitioners most humbly beg leave to thew, that, how ever painful it 14 to their feeling.. that it should still be thane.' isecevary to exact such Tests from then (and from them alone of all His Majesty's subjects), they can with perk, t truth affirm, that the political and mural principles, which aye thereby ass..,rted, arc not only conformable to their opinions, brt exptes•ly inculcated by the religion which they profess, and your Petitioners most humbly trust, that the religion; 4o:trines, which permit such Test. to he taken, will be 0- trounced by this Honourable llowse to be entailed to A Toler, tion, not merely pane!, but complete, under the hap?. Cu.. stitnlion and Government of this Realm ; and that Ilis M.. Hity's Roman Catholic Sienects, holding those principles, wi I be considered as Subjects, pun %thaw, fidelity the State may repose the firmest reliance. Your Petitioners further most humbly thew, that twenty six years have now elapsed since tb,'ir most gracious Soros/Sp and the Honourable Houses of Parliament in Ireland, by their public and deliberate act, dcelarei, that, si from the uniform peaceable behaviour of the Roman Catholics of Ireland fee a long .e: es of years, it appeared reasonable and expedient to relax the disibilittei and Meapacities under which they Is booted, and that it must tend not only to the cultivation end improvement of this kingdom, but to the piosperity and strength of all His Majesty's dominions, that His Majesty's subjects of all denominations should enjoy the blessings of • ties commotion, and should he bound to each other by mu tual interest and !maw.' aflibetion, - a declaration, founded upon unerring principles of justice sod sound policy, wliieh still re mains to be c.irried into full effect, although your Petitioners are impressed with a belief, that the appreheusions which retarded its beneficial operation previous to the Union, cannot exist in the Parliament of the United Kingdom. For your Prtitioners most humbly shew, that, by virtue of divers statutes now in force, His Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects, wito form so great a proportion of the populating of Ireland, and contrihute so largely to the resources of the State, do yet labour under many incapacities, restraints, and privations, whi.:l% affect them with peculiar severity in alm-rat every station of Ilfc ; that 1110(11 especially they are denied Cie capacity of sitting or voting in either of the Honourable Houses of Parliament; the manifold evils vinseqiient upon which incapacity they trust it is unnecessary to unfold 01 , 4 enumerate to this Honourable House. They are disabled from holding or exercising (unless by a special dispensation) any corporate office whatsoever in the reties or towns In which they reside; they are incapacitated and disqualified from holding or exercising the offices...l' Sheriff. and Subslwariffs, and various offices of trust, honour, and emolument in the State, in Ha Majesty's military a d naval service, and in the administiation of the laws, iu their native land. Your Petitioner., declining In Inter into the painful de tail of the many incapacitiaa and incoareinericise avowedly in- flicted ►y those statutes, upon His bilaieny's Roman Cathol.. , subjects, beg leave, however, 11104 t earnatly to solicit the ct tention of this/Tom House, to the humiliating and igernsiniu system of exclusion, reproach, and suseicion, winds thos , statutes generate and keep alive. Fur your Petitioners mmt humbly chew, that in ronse• quence of the hostile spirit thereby sanctioned, their hopes of enjoying even the privileges, which, through the benignity of their mint gracious Sovereign, they have been capacitated to en joy, are nearly *ltogether frustrated, insomuch that they are. in @feet, shut out front almost 41 the honours, dignities, and offices of trust and emoiunient in the State, from rank and distinction in His Majesty's Army and Navy, and even (run' the lower situations and franchises in the several cities and corporate towns throughout His Majesty's dominions. And your Petitioners severely feel, that this unqualified interdiction of those of their Cornrow. ~,,, from all Municipal station., from the franchises of all Gitt!rts and C. reoratioes, and frewithe patronage and benefits annexed to those situa tions, is an evil not terminating in itself ; for they beg lone to' state, that by giving an advantage over thioe of their Con. O. m unim to potevied, leptallt OP 6 4 hly detr Toot P rj. Roam yon from bugile spir inest,nsabl issr subjrcts. Your P teotien " f conc ed.d t ts one anti &ruches 3 Conntit u vith the 4 Oat gai n ' and 'atm ett , cl , refs re pieseote r ieption cautery ti Your 1 elution ours An army 3111 the molt int Hn' eels, 11Y the Cm• whit: r yell rev Your tish En its fins du ma earnest from th and It For ,an t dtalful me tutes, of the ■ent Owls I ►;,