The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-02-04 00:00:00

r Alle:ltk - 4 1 1E"'!"Imf,t2.° 1 .. ' • in the history of human affaits there is no proposition which gene-' eel experience more strongly confirms than this, which on a former eocesion, on the same subject, was submitted to the House—that the sore way to create twee:tamable demands was to z efuae reasonable requests; it changed that which was reasonable into what was us. reasonable, and converted a dutiful request into an inatetnt demand. igAtt suppose the Catholic Association did pot stall exist--supe tbat you had not yourselves created it, and it was irked of those who had pledged themselves to that measure, why, now that you ars in office, do you not carry its You have succeeded in other intents:l, supported by the country, and why do you not succeed la this, supported, as you are, by the country. and backed by the Opposition both in an cut of this House ? What would the answer be ? Would you say you were deterred from doing so by the lees of a useful colleague, of splendid talents and of powerful telluence ? Such all answer would Lot suffice—the experiment had been never tried ; and if it were tried no tear whatever should be appreheneed of such a lose. What ! quit the great seals. (A %eagle) It would exceed any of the much-talked of miracles of Prince Hoheelohe. (Cheers and laughter.) Of all 'he chimeras that ever ermined a poet's brain there was none more chimerical than the idea that that eminent person Could resign them. (Leughter.) There are some things at which I should be surprised, but nothing could surprise me more than his resigliatem of them whilst he had the power of possessing them. No, never until his prospect and eojoyment of sublunary . happiness were at an end. Besides, they sem say in do not take into account the high qualities of that emi nent person to when I allude-1 hope trot intemperately, yet in eelligibly. (A laugh.) They do not copsitter the steadiness of his siend—cis courage to bear burch —his patient essiduity--the calmness with which he endures connadictions—the lessee of ques tions of trade and commerce—qualities only to be equalled by the the patience he displays at the distresses of the suitors of his own Court. The idea that with such qualities of mind as those he would resign was the suggestion of a fantastical imagination. Let Men only be tried, and it would be found that he slid not seriously contemplate such a step. A man by long experience grows fond of strafes his country, i i office (a laugh); and the more high the situation the more splendid the rewards for the service—the more intense his:odour, more warmly did his bosom glow with a desire of continuing iu tee service of his country. (Laughter and ap. 'Maws.) They who supposed he would cease so to love his country's service, or that that great object,which he possessed could by a dif ference of opinion be wrenched kom his gripe, greatly undervalued his pewee of endurance. It was his freehold; he had a life Tote. tea in it, that was clear, and the question now was, whether it was a property in which he bad im interest only for the term of his natural life, or whether it was one which he could bequeath to a successor? I think I perceive sonic symptoms of such a disposition. (Loud cheers.) However. this I mat safely assure the successor, that he would be much disappointed if he expected to gain possession before the term of the present lifeenterest was expired. (Applause, and much laughter.) This was the great antagonist to the claims, aitikh other Members of the Ministry it was supposed were anxicus to concede. Suppose it were to come to this point, that this eminent personage were to say, " I'll resign, if this question be carried ;" and that another Right Hon. Gent. were toassert, " I'll resign if it be not carried." Supported by the voice of that House, anti of the country, there would be no question that the Right fion.Gent. would maintain his place and succeed—et hasty expression, used more in the warmth of debate that in real earnestness would bemoan forgotten ; he would become reconciled to have his views and opinions upon this as on other subjects thwarted and defeated ; tie Cathodic Question would be carried, and the country would not for one hour sustain the loss of the benefit of his high talents and inestimable services. As yet, DO such effort had been made—of the success attendant on such an effort, I sin c edident. Instead of an earnest endeavour to carry the question, the Catholics were leer year after year, in a period of profound peace, of boasted prosperity , to petition that i House, with an almost Imam expectation of having their grievances redressed. In that part of his Majesty's Speech which related to Ireland, I pensive that the word •Associatioits' and not 'Association' is intro. duced. This was not done without an object. The plural was :were insidiously inserted with an artful and perverted ingenuity In which Bella' meld not excel— " Tito' his tongue dropt manna; • Tho' skilled to make the worse appear the better reason, And to perplex and dark matures: counsels ; Vet all was false and hollow." MA* I know he hand-writing in which this insertion in the epeetm is made. (A laugh.) It was introduced as an excellent pretext to balance the Catholic Association against the Orange and other Associations, which were illegal ; and whilst it aimed a strong and terrible blow at the Catholic Association, was meant as a gentle rap to the others. This was • nominal equity--one of those subtleties which was so well understood in a Court over which a certain eminent personage presided. Assenting, as I do, to other parts of the Royal Speech—to this I cannot tw eak. I cannot assent to the proposition, by which it is declared that this Association, by the measures and proceedings which they rues adopted, have done anything irreconcilable with the spirit of the Constitution. (Hear, hirer.) There never was a society, of all whcse measures I have, without exception, approved ; every per son who heart nes is probably of the name opinion; but it was erpecially difficult to approve of all the measures of • society termed far mixed purposes of religion and politics. The exact rule or line by which such en Auto iation was bound together was not easily definable—and might wily be transgressed. But, making all due allowances for the nature of such an institution— and having been myself an attentive observer of the proceed. logs of that Association—having been, I may say, a vigilant inspector of all that has been said, spaken, and written by them, I pledge myself to the fact, that there has not been one word or one act of theirs that would justify the charge which those voids would convey. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Their language has been, in my opinion, marked by even ex. eteplary moderation, although it has been attempted by the i'eoble Mover of this Address to visit it with his sarcasm. Their eloquence is, may I assure hint, easier to sneer at then to imitate. The Noble Lord was pleased to say he did not speak of them with contempt. How gratifying it must be to six millions of people, who peril tits hail never heard of the Noble Lord's name before, to know that he did not regard them with contempt. Indeed I sboeld be surprised if ha had said that Is did contemn or under. vides , them; such a sentiment would be very much at variance wish the intelligent and sound discretion which marked the other parts of the speech which preceded his moving the Address. (Hear, hear.) To entertain contempt toward, a people in their situation would exceed any idsas, even the most sueerstitious upon record of poeoeuranle. The Catholic Association, if I am not misinformed (and my information is front a ;levee on which I 'way rely), possessed the confidence of the Roman Catholic people cf Ireland. It may be eaosidered a virtual representative body of :heir wishes and sentiments. Some Catholics may approve, and some disapprove of certain parts of its proceedings' ; but it may be fitirly said to pommel the general confidence of the Roman Catho lics. We know, that in reading Ma speeches every man does not fully approve of all the sentiments of another, slttiongh he may with much, and most of what lie says. It may suggest itself to b•m—" It would be well it ties passage were left out—if another were altered." Nn person could more readily assent to the opi. man that inch a difference might prevail titan his Right Hon. Friend opposite( elr. Plunkett) who might oil reading a speech, mut a construction quite eat variance welt that to which twenty throe persona, upon subsequent consideration, might arrive et.— (Hee?, hear, and a laugh). Of :is extreme delicacy and difficulty I of the situation of n.y Right lion. Friend, I am quite aware. I am aware also of lea ineatimaLle services to the Catholics. There is not a man its England or in Ireland to whom the Catholics are name indebted than to him. After my venerated and ever-lamented tend Mr. (Italian, he was the person who had done moat for then ; for who is there now that, befitting all the maryclemis powers of hit mind to their cause, pleaded it with half his force, half his eloquence. and half his effect? He has been the father of the Cathult: A...net:stein, for under his immediate countenance and protection 11.1,:e they growl., and arrived at the influence and Importance which tiley now posses*. Whatever may be the Rent• and the manner of its collection, the people are attached to it—they will continue to adhcre to it—their interests and feel ings are bolted up with it—they voluntarily support it, and such a mesoire as is row contemplated sill be regarded as reeking war upon the Catholics of Ireland. To leg slate at all under such cocumstaneea, foe such a body, is a species of legislation surrounded by difficulties. If any legislative measure he adopted for putting down this Association, how can you jusitly the petting clown the CathalicAssaciation ' arid so frante a law that will not ;Meet a huaitred other a sieties? A ny law to put them down would likewise extend to the var:ous societies for circulating libels throughout the country. The Csthalic Association colects about ftwe or six Metered pounds a week ; but here is a set t , :ty witieh collects upwares of 50,e001. or 100.040/. a mess, aee. wit branches amid ramifications uidely . defused over part of the realm— supported sad encouraged by venous sects—by dignitaries of the church—by persensof high renk,and active elenilins of both Houses of the Legislature. Of oee of these saskees, a Noble Lord (Liver. pool), who takes a teed in another House, awl with whom I have sometimes now the honour to act (a laugh), is was/dent. Another Z.:obis Lord ( Pex ley ) fram who:matter the recognition ef the revolted Colonies.. and after the adoption of a more eberal policy in trede. further liberality !might be expected, was an relive promoter of these societies.. Another Association, of which his Grace of Wel lington was a batting member, the Bridge-street Association, would be attired by any law by which it sties be attempted to put down the Catholic Association. This might be said to be against the spirit of the Constitution, for they sought only to put down wtitings on the Cocseitation, and were not associated from any generous feelings, or sympathy in the misfortunes of their countrymen ; not fur the attainment of freedom nor the redress of real grievance. Should these measures be pursued and prosecuted by his Majesty's Government, cad I trust they may not, many op. will dwelling upon them in detail. Now thst mein, and in every stage of their pris es them from brat to last. It ' so to legislate as to re law antlgovernumet is: eke, which is continued ifferent to its enormons the severing of the two entry is now in a more ficusly been. The As tent tranquillity. Lest at: administration of jus if die law had been u.ore kuowing what law was, s. These and other ins siere—giess it over withal Catholic Association. Butt ^ cosple should look to ' they then only said, dint and its soon as they cv. cause in the lurch. (Loud chem.) Their friends veered about from one side to another, and left them. This is the conclusion which the Roman Catholics draw from your conduct towards them. They coedded in you--they appealed to you—but Parliament turned a deaf ear to them, and they have transferred their alienated affections and confidence to a body of their own choosing. (Hear, hear.) If they cease to confide in you, it is you who have induced them by neglect to withdraw their confidence. This it is that haunts you ; it Is your own doing. (Hear, hear.) Swift observes that there is nothing more common than for people to make themselves ridicu lous, and then be angry with people for laughing at them. It was also to be observed of Governments, that nothing was more com mon than for bad rulers to create mischiefs, and then to be enraged at the evil consequences which those mischiefs invariably entailed on a people. If such a body arrives at the maturity of growth, it is your measures which forced it to such a maturity, and it is only by ceasing to turn a deaf ear to Ireland, that you ever can seriously hope to tender her contented and tranquil. Much good may have been done, and much good has been done—but that Mi nister who would leave this great question undecided, dividing the councils of the nation, and perpetuating the misery of Ireland, is unworthy even of the least of these paltry commercial measures, for paltry they are in comparison to this great question, for which I have already given credit to his Majesty's Ministers. 'The fault is our own—we alone can correct it. Pie resolved to carry the Catholic Question, and you must succeed. Though this act of justice should have been rendered to Ireland before, yet " better late than never." This it is that will put an effectual end to the Ar.3o. elation. It will restore that confidence which you in • great degree have lost by your past delay in doing justice to Ireland, and that this may be the result of your measures, and this the tendency of your policy, because it lies deep in the happiness of Ireland and the welfare of the empire, 1 will put forth my earnest prayer— would that I could add my sanguine hope. (Applause.) Again I express my earnest disapprobation of the Intended measure, anddis sent front that part of the Address which approves of them. lat least !hall not be guilty of the responsibility of sanctioning them ; and if, In dissentiog from them. I do not take the sense of the House now upon them, it is bemuse many who would join me in that ex presston of dissent, are not now present, as they entertain no appre hension of being entrapped into an approval of such a measure, because i am unwilling to make the people of Ireland think that they are supported by fewer than really do support them, and be cause I ant unwilling thereby to diminish that small portion of the confidence of the people there, which our inattention to her interests has left us. (Cheers.) Lord L. GOWER explained. He begged to assure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that he did not mean to convey any sar casm on the people of Ireland, or on their mode of speaking, by what had fallen from hint respecting that country. He might not have conveyed himself as clearly and forcibly as that Learned Gentleman, but due allowance would be made for his inexperience in debate, at a time when he might not be in perfect self-possession as to the exact phrase and manner of his expression—" Cam meta am: piens sit ;" but nothing was farthet front his intention than to convey the slightest sarcasm or disrespect on any portion of the people of Ireland. (Ileum, hear.) Mr. BROUGHAM explained, and was quite satisfied with the very creditable explanation Of the Noble Lord, of the sentiments which others in the House, 'swell as himself, had misapprehended. Mr. W. LAMB said, as his Hen. Friend (Mr. Brougham) had adverted to hint for having signified his sense of what had fallen from hilts in the usual way, he did so from a feeling that a part of his observations was stronger than he approved of, and because he thought it also made against another part of his argument. As to his hsving entertained a variety of opinions, he never changed any opinion which he had professed, except one on an important subject. He had the highest respect for the Honourable and Learned Gen tleman's talents and character, and begged to assure him he meant him not the slightest disrespect by the interruption of which be complained. As to the Address, lie thought it spoke too highly of the prosperity of the country ; as they ought not to have been depressed by timpotary adversity—so neither should they be elated by prosperity, which might be temporary auto.— He understood that the Address characterized the Catholic Asso ciation as unconstitutional; he of course. expected that proofs would be produced to warrant this assertion, and upon the faith of this expectation he would give his consent to that particular part of the Address. It was impossible not to agree with his Hon. and Learned Friend, t!:st other Associations existed, which levied money, and were in many other respects analogons to the Catholic Association. At the same time, perhaps, none of those Associations were actually indentified with political subjects as closely as die Catholic Association, or met like that, for the purpose of discussing political questions. If an association take cognizance of all poli tical subjects, and meeting under the pretence and pretext of com plaining of one particular grievance, takes into consideration meny other particular subjects, he had no difficulty in admitting that such an association might be a fit subject for legislative provision. If the Roman Catholic Priests should interfere in the collection of the Catholic Rent, or the manner of its application, he conceived this would be a feature of itself sufficient to create extreme alarm. When the power and pretensions of the Catholic Priesthood were recollected—when it was remembered that they arrogated the power of absolution and remission of sins, what could reconcile mankind to the existence of such pretensions, except the most rigid and exact application of this power—the co plete restriction of it to spirituel affairs? AlThen the Catholic Priesthood interfered in tem poral affairs—when they mixed themselves up with political sub jects, and took part in their discussion—this, he repeated, was a cause for considerable alarm. With respect to the Catholic ques tion, whatever may be the conduct of the Catholic Association, or whatever may be the violence or indiscretion of the advocates of , the question, his opinion upon it remained unchanged. Ile con sidered it necessary, to ensure the general tranquillity—to secure the safety, and promote the prosperity of the United Kingdom, that distinvions, grounded on religious differences, hnuld be at an end. When the Catholic question should be brought forward, therefore, it should receive his most anxious support. The at tempts which were made to support this question by violence and menaces, he considertd greatly injurious to it. It was impossible to conceal that a strong objection to the measure existed in this country—an objection founded on principles. which, although they might not be concurred in, must be respected. !low long the feeling to which he adverted may oppose the question of emanci pation, lie should not take upon himself to predict, but he very much feared that it was not likely to be overcome by the language or measures of the Catholic Association. Mr. Secretary CANING then rose and addressed the House to the following effect:—Sir, the speech of the lion. and Learned Gentleman opposite, not being of a nature to require that I should engross much of your time, I shall not trespass at great length on the attention of the House, with respect to either of the topic s to which he has particularly adverted. The lion. and Learned Gentleman has thought fit to pass over a considerable portion of the Speech, and has confined himself chiefly to the parts relating to the recognition of the new States of America, and the Catholic Association. The approbation be has bestowed on the former, is is no very gracious approbation, while, on the latter, the condem nation be has pronounced, is no very sparing condemnation. With respect, bowmen, to the Catholic Association, I will say, that re taining the opinions I have always held on the subject of the Catholic Claims, which I shall be prepared at all times to support, reserving to myself only the right of bringing the question forward when I think proper, judging for myself, and not :Mowing the lion. and Learned Geudeman to judge me, Ido not hesitate to express my agreement with my lion. Friend (Mr. \V. Lamb) that so far from considering the proceedings of the Catholic Anso elation to be identified with the cause of tire Catholics of Ireland— if ever there was a scheme, a device, an invention, for throwing back that question in the mind or the people of this country—if the biderett enemy of the Catholics had sat down to devise the means to raise a spirit of hostility to their claims, and exasperate the Op position against them, he could not have hit upon any mode of ac compliehing his purpose more certain than the establishment and conduct of the Catholic Association. There was one argument mentioned by the lion. and Learned Gentleman, which I thought he would have pursued to greater length, and to which I have my self given the most serious consideration. It is this: whether, if no steps were taken with respect to the Catholic Association, the mischief might not die away of itself P To prove the sincerity of skis declaration, 1 can appeal to gpr conduct last Session. The lion. and Learned Gentleman knows that we were - g - Oided tobrlteg forward some measure to stifle the Association in its infancy, nor can he have forgotten that I then pronounced my opinion against any legislative interference with it, being rather of opinion that if' let alone it would die away, and that at all events we could not call for any measure of interference till that experiment had been tairly tried. If the lion. and Learned Gentleman wished us to re_ stone that mode of considering the subject, he has handled his argturients singularly. It was in that case his business to have diminished the authority end impatance of the assembly, and to have shown that it was but a harmless meeting of simple indivi duals, not representing, or pretending to represcnt, the kingdom a f Ireland; but, on the contrary, to induce tine House to teke no notice of the evil, he has exaggerated it even beyond the exaggera tions of its own self-impertance. Ile nye that it is, in fact, the Government of the country. Hs says, that to the Catholic Associa tion alone we should attribute the peace and tranquillity that coon. try has for the first tine enjoyed. In the profuseaets of his pane gyric on the Association, he forgets the existence of Lord Wtl leslev's Administration. lie forgets the virtues and talents ascribed, and justly ascribed, to that eminent man ; but it is not to his im partial Administration ; it is not to his elliirts to compel respect to the laws ; it is not to the earn hand with which he has distributed between Catholic and Protestant tire favour of the Government, and the sunshine of the favour of the Crown, that those happy results are to be attributed. No ; it is not to Lord Weliesiev, but to the Catholic Association that all honour is. now to be rendered, and all benefit derived. I own this comes upon me with some kind of surprise. I wish the wise and benevolent Administration of the Noble bard had been allowed to proceed ttatainted by the waters of bit.erness mingled with it by the Catholic Association— " Doris entara Foam non intermiticeat %Adam." If it had gone on altme, I believe it would lute ended in conferring THE BRITISH PRESS. on Ireland inestimable blessings, even though it had fallen short of obtaining the grant of that question, which must ultimately crown and cement the whole, and which, some time or other, will be ear , ried, with the general concyrrence of this couctry, though now, perhaps, it would be opposed by the whole people as one mass. I ant firmly persuaded that the administration of Lord Wellesley would, if suffered to proceed without the mischievous interference of faction, have produced a state of things which, compared with any thing in our memory, would have been peace, happiness, and concord. But the Honourable and Learned Gentleman says, what ever advances may have been made towards this State, the Catholic Association is the parent of peace, and the author of the general tranquillity. What is the potent charm with which it has wrought this change ?—lts place is front the pit of Acheron ; its concili ation is cemented by this adjuration : "Be neaceful by the hate you bear to the Orangemen." This is the foundation of the peace of the Catholic Association. (Hear, hear.) This is the charm by which they produce friendship out of hatred. (Hear, hear.) It was enough to stamp the character of the Association, that its members should deliberately have written such a passage, and when called on to reconsider it, should deliberately have confirmed it. What was the injunction ? Be peaceful by the hatred you bear to a great part of your countrymen ! is this the spirit of Catholicism ?—I hope not. I am sure it is not that of Christianity. (Hear, hear.) I trust that it forms no part of the peculiar creed of that peculiar class of the Christian world. If it does, I know that I have been in • fatal error when I advocated the cause of the Catholics. (Hear, hear, hear.) In the name of the Catholic population, I merest against identify ing them with the Association. Is answer to the protest of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, I protest against confounding them together; and should any measure be deemed necessary to restrain the Association within dm limits of the law and constitution, I protest against its being considered as directed against the Catholic population, or as intended to throw impedimenta in the way of the , discussion of the Catholic questios. Does the Catholic Associa tion know so little of the people of England, as to suppose that menace and intimidation are measures calculated to lead to success ? Do not its members feel that every sentence they have uttered, and every threat they have ventured to send forth, have tended directly to injure the cause they profess to &deo; ate ? Are they not aware, that if they would promote it, they should hold their peace till all they have said is forgotten, and, if possible, effaced from the mind of the English public ? So far from doing mischief to the Catholic cause by suppressing the As sociation, we should do it good, by ridding it of an incumbrance which renders it unsightly to every impartial man, and obnoxioas to every man who hats to be bullied. (Hear, hear, hear.) The Catholic Association lets in array against the Catholic cause the feelings of all mankind. (Cheers.) The Honourable and Learned Gentleman has used harsher words than I think he would have applied to the measures in contemplation if he had known how it is intended to frame them. The disease of Ireland is (Anion, and order whatever banners it may display itself, it should be crushed. The letter S was not added to de ceive. No: the measures intended to be introduced will be im. partial, and, I trust, complete in their operation against all parties. (Hear, hear.) I revert again to the separation I wish to establish, but which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman wishes to confound between the Catholic Association and the Catholic Question. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman took occasion to address to me personally, in a way not to be misunderstood, a great part of his speech ; and lest it should appear that I wish to pass it by without notice, I am compelled to resort to that ungracious and disagreeable task of occupying the Home with matters of a personal nature. (Hear.) Beelike me, then, in so many words, with respect to the Catholic question, why, being able to carry certain measures in the Cabinet, I have not recourse to the sante influence—the proffered resignation of office, to carry this also? In re-stating his proposition, I do not admit his pre mitres to be trite ; but I cannot get at his argument without re-stating his premises. Dots he then, I will ask him again, see no difference between the question of the recogrition of South America and the question respecting the Catholics? He asks, what has a tl mister to fear, with those benches and England at his back? I answer, by asking what could a Minister do, with only those benches, and Not England at his back ? (Cheers and laughter.) Then, Sir, supposing his data all true, claim to reserve to myself the determination as to how and when, at what period, and by what means I should endeavour to carry those measures, on which, if necessary, I would put my office and life at stake. (Cheers) (claim not to have the opportunity Be head for me (hear); and by those especially who may, perhaps, hare some collateral interest in the result. I have not thought it necessary to dispute the aseuniptions of the lion. and Learned Gentleman, with respect to the state of the Cabinet ; but ono of his assertions I must deny. Ile has taken it for granted, that be cause. on one interest the Cabinet, like the Nation, is divided into two parts, whoever is against me as to the Catholic question, was equally against me as to the recognition of South America. lie is completely mistaken. (Hear, hear.) I beg to assure hint that the line that is fancifully dra wn between the liberals and Me berals in the Cabinet, is not straight but serpentine (Hear, hear) ; and that however easily that division as to the Catholic Question may be traced, on other:, to which the Members are not pledged by habit, connection, or personal honour, I hope they bring minds fairly open to the arguments of their Colleagues.— (Hear, hear.) But by no fault of ours, nor indeed of the present Parliamentary generation, the Ministry is necessarily exposed to • difficulty from which it can only be rescued by a remedy not very likely to be adopted—l mean the total breaking up of party, and the formation of an Administration out of' the scattered elements. It is my opinion that in that case an Administration could not be formed on the side which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman wishes to prevail. On the other it might. It, therefore, I was to follow his advice, and retire from Office, he might have the satisfaction of ousting me, but he certainly would not of succeeding me. (Cheers and laughter.) All I desire of the House is to coroader to what extent the sentence of the Address pledges them. The King states that the Associations in Ireland have " adopted pro ceedings irreconcilable with the spirit of the Constitution, and cal culated, by exciting alarm, anti by exasperating animosities, to endanger the peace of society. anti retard the course of national im. provetnent." These are matters of fact. His Majesty then re commends Parliament " to consider without delay the means of applying &remedy to this oil." The House of Cotnnions by this Address, answers, we will ; and unless the House were prepared to say that the Catholic Association, according to the character given of it by the lion. and Learned Gentleman, possessing all autho rity, superseding all government, engrossing all allegiance, ex ercising all power, levying avenue, and having the population at its back—unless, I say, the House of Commons will declare that this is a power which ought to exist, sitting beside the Govern. mentor towering above it, they cannot refuse to say but that they will adopt whatever means may be suggested to them by Govern. meet, but that they will themselves consi ter how to put an end to so enormous an evil. That is the extent of the Address, and less than that would be to affirm that it was proper the Catholic Asso ciation should exist in its unrestrained authority, and tine plentitude of its power. (Hear, hear, heir.) I now turn to that other part of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman's speech in which be acknowledges his acquiescence in the passages of the Address echoing the satisfaction felt at the success of the liberal commercial principles adopted by this country, and at the steps taken for re cogniemg the new States of America. It does happen, however, that the lion. Gentleman being not uefrequently a speaker in this House, nor very concise in his speeches, and touching occasionally as he proceeds on almost every subject within the range of his itnagination, as well as making sonic observations on the matter in hand, and having'at different periods proposed and supported every innovation of which the law er constitution of the country is sus ceptible ; it is impossible to innovate without appearing to borrow fine him. Either, therefore, we must remain for ever atom- JuLly locketl up asinnanarthem winter, or we must break our way out by *ooze mode 'beady suggested by the Hoh. and Learned Gentlmen, and then hecticeout," Ah, I was there before you. That is what I told you to do, but as you would not do it then, you have no right to do it now." In Queen Anne's reign there lived • very sage and able critic, named Dennis, who in his old age was the prey of a strange fancy, that he had himself written ail the good things in all the goad plays that were acted. Every good passage he met with in any author he insisted was his own. " It's none of his," Demi* would always say: " no, it's mine." lie went one day to see a new tragedy. Nothing particularly good to his taste occurred till ascetic in which a great storm was represented. As soon ae he heard the thunder rolling over head, he exclaimed, " That's my thunder!" (Great laughter.) So is it with the Hon. . anal Learned Gentleman : it's all hill thUlltiCT. (Laughter.) It will henceforth be impossible to confer any boon or make any innovation but he will claim it as his thunder. But it is due to him to acknow ledge that he does not claim everything; he will be content with the exclueive merit of the liberal measures relating to trade and com merce. Not desirous of violating his own principles by claiming a monopoly of foresight and wioloin, he kindly throws overboard to my lionouretle and Learned Friend (Sir J. Mackintosh) near hint, the praise of South America. I should like to know whether, in some degree, t hie also is not his thunder. (Laughter.) He thinks it right itself: but lest we shmild be too proud if he approved our , conduct fa lota, be thinks it wrong in point of time. I differ from him essentially ; for If I pique myself on anything in this affair, it is the time. That, at some time or other, States which had peps rated themselves from the Metropolis should or should not be admitted to the rank of independent nations, is a proposition to which no possible dissent could be given. The whole question wall one of time and mode. There were two modes: one a reckless and headlong course, by which we might have reached our object at once, but at the expense of drawing upon tie consequences not I highly to be estimated. The other was more striely guarded in t point of principle, so that while we pursued our own interests, we P took care to give no just cause of offence to other Powers. Then Motes have been niluded to, BuenoS Area, Colombia, and Me:ien ; and 1 flatter myself to satisfy the House, that at no t. rifer p ; riad could time rmi sues ton in pyres?, with respect to them, have taken place. Any other period or mode then that chosen would have been liable to some objection. In the first place, as to time, referring to the internal condition of the States themselves, it is true that for many years there has been no Spanish soldier In the territory of Buenos Ayres. That first necessary condition of re. cognition by a Foreign Power had long existed In that State. Its soil wan free: but my Hon. and ',earned Friend (Sir J. Mackintosh) knowinthet up to a late period the vast extent of territory, generally and in common parlance called Buenos Ayres, consisted of thirteen or fourteen States, not yet connected by any federal tie. What an absurdity would it have been for England to have entered into a treaty with a Government which could not say what were its constituent parts! Before any treaty can he concluded, we must of necessity know that this consolidation has taken place. I have no doubt that it will be found to exist, and if it does, the treaty . will be signed. As fo Colombia, it was only in 1822 that she sent the last Spanish there out of her terrtory; the I,sarrison of Puerto Cabello. a place of the greatest strength and importance, which was held for the King of Spain till within the last two years. But after the expulsion of the Spaniards ' Colombia chose to risk her existence, by ernding her whole armed force and chief magis. trate to carry on a distant war, for the conquest of Peru. While a reasonable chance existed that events might have brought back the war and the Spaniards into the heart of Colombia, if we had ac knowledged her complete independence we should have acknow ledged what was not the diet. But when it appeared that that danger was sufficiently removed,Colosnbia was ripe for recognition, arid Government have acted on that opinion. As to Mexico, not nine months since, an adventurer, who had actually wielded the sceptre of that country, went from Europe to repossess himself nf his abdicated throne. Was that a moment for this country to have decided by its Interference, what slimild be the future Government of Mexico ? The failure et that ex pedition gave the State an opportunity of organising a Go. vernment on a solid basis, and then the decision was made by this country as to recognising its Independence. So far from the time being injurious and the measure timely, however ripe in Leaf, I will undertake to declare that it was not possible to have antici pated the act of recognition before it was resolved upon. But the Honourable and Learned Gentleman objects not only to the time but the mode. My Noble Friend (Lord L. Gower) who manifested how able he was to do justice to any cause entrusted to him, and vindicate himself and his opinions front misrepresentation, (hear, hear,) explained 'alertly but clearly the course taken by this country. To those who tay there in something mean and paltry in negotiating a treaty as the mo d e o f recogn i tion , an d w h o wou ld , if they were Ministers, rather resign than so disgrace themselves, only observe, that this has been always die mode. The 31i meter of the United States was not admitted to the Court of France till after the signature of a treaty. That was the mode of recogni tion in that case, but there were other circumstances attending the act widely different front our recognition of the late Spanish colo nies. France not ally recognised the Utited States before her ter ritory was free, and without giving the mother country any offer of precedency, but, though in amity with us at the moment, mixed up with the act of recognition a treaty of' alliance with the United States to enable them to achieve their independence. France for that purpose made herself the enemy of England. But it really seems as if it were conceived that this act on our part is iinpertect, be cause it is not accompanied by war. Now the task I thought set to ine was, to arrive at my object not only without war, but without givingjust cause of war to Spain or any other Power. The hlonourable and Learned Gentleman professes to consider n y policy as huckstering, tent if he thinks that war might not have been had by a little dexterity, lie is much nineak.n. (Cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") It ley on each side, but I have arrived at my object without stirring the dangers that encompassed ate. (Cheers.) Is the result then unsatisfactory because from be ginning to end we have taken no step that we have not previously announced to every party interested by immediate relations, by sympathy, or by honour? Olean hear.) There is not in the archives of my office, a document connected with this negotiation which Spain has not been seen or the Allies had cognizance of. Spain was told for years that if she would take the preceding, we would fall behind and follow at is humble distance. We offered to give her a superiority in the markets of her late colonies, but at last because we were forced to go alone, did we avail ourselves of our priority to secure peculiar advantages? So tar from selling our re. cognition, we demand only to be placed where any who chum to follow us may be placed on the sa me footing. any Hon. and Interned Gentleman approves the measure, but he disapproves the mode and time. The measure, for aught 1 care, may be his or her frienit'a, or the couetry;f. What !claim to myself of merit, if any merit there be, is precisely what he fixes upon to blame. (Heir, hear, hear.) I trust that by this temperate, and, if he will, tardy policy, I have avoided all the dangers that suirounded me. I will not pretend to conceal that 1 have hurt many feelings, ran against many interests, shocked many prejudices, and caused many regrets, but it is my sanguine hope that all will exhale in words, and that we shall remain with our object gaieed, and the peace of the world mulisturbed. (Cheers.) If that result should be gained, I lay claim to that part of the merit; and not withstanding the unsparing blame lavished by the Hoo. and Learned Gentleman on the workmanship, though he has, I admit, done justice to the performance, I ant ready to abide the judgment of the country. (Cheers.) I do not recollect any other topic that calls for further observation front me. When. ever the Honourable and Learned Gentleman mar think lit to Writ forward any of the subjects to which he alluded in his speech. I shall be prepared to meet hint upon them. I am desirous of offering sonic explanation with r.gard to the treaty with the United States, for the more effectual supnresalon of the slave trade. The house will recollect, that in the beginning of last Sea- Pion a proposal was received from the Citited States, to carry into effect certain measures to put an end to the illicit traffic in slaves, by conceding a mutual and limited right of search. The Treaty was drawn up by the Ministers of the United States. It received some alterations here, but none very material. By the Constitution of the United States, the confirmation of treaties is treaties is vested, not in the Executive only, but in the Senate and Executive jointly. This was an inconvenience of which we were certainly aware, and therefore we have no right to complain when we found that the treaty regularly negotiated and ratified by his Majesty, was refused to be ratisfied by the American Senate, un less on conditions to which we could not accede. But what was peculiarly singular was, that the most material altcratiou made by the Senate, was an alteration of the original draft of the Treaty made by the American Government, and an alteration which withdrew all the reciprocity on which the Treaty was founded. The right of search was, by the original Treaty, conceded by us in the West Indira to the Anterians, and by them on their own coast to us. But the Sedate struck out the part relating to their own coast. They wished us to concede the right to diem in our West Indica. but they refused it to us on their own coast. It was impossible, as a matter of justice to the West Indian. to consent to this alteration. It would have been a tacit admission that our slave laws were evaded by our colonists. I will not affirm that the Americans evade their Slave Laws, but I deny, positively, that ours are evaded by our colonists. We cannot agree to &treaty which seems to sanction the imputation that we admit on our part what they deny on their's. It has been proposed to cancel the whoie negotiation and begin anew, and we have offered to agree to a treaty, as amended by their Senate. with the single exception of the ommietsionorthe word "America." I cannot suppose that their objections will stand the test of further discussion. At all events, our feelings have been made manifest. We raised the penalty of the trade to that of piracy, and we are willing by treaty to concede equal powers. It gives me great pleasure to add. that the whole course of the discussion was tarried on in perfect friendship, and that I have no doubt the personal feeling of the Executive Government was entirely with us. (User, hear.) As to any other topics, I prefer at this moment to defer the consideration of them to the more detailed discussions that will be hereafter necessary. The Hight lion. Gentleman sat down amidst the general cheering of the House. When Mr. Canning had concluded, Mr. Hume rose, but th, noise and confusion created by the departure of the Members pre vented us from distinctly hearing what fell from the Honourable' Gentleman. We understood him to remark, that Alr. Canning Mu' omitted to notice what fell from 31r. Brougham, with respect to the reduction and equalization of the duties on wines, which Mr. flume considered a matter by no means unintertsting to the public. Mr. CA NN I NG explained. After which the motion on the Address was put front the Chair, and carried von. con._ _ . _ After some tormal business, the House adjourned at lialf-fast Eight o'Clock. FASHIONABLE I.VTELLICENCF. The Duke and Duchess of Richmond arrived on M'ednesday • the Duke of Argyll's, Upper Brook -street, from their seat, Good "owl, Saravey. The Doke and Duchess of Leinster have !et (own fur the 'Au gurs of 'l'aristocles, Oakley House, Bedfordshire. Earl Stanhope arrived yesterday at Lord Carrington's, White hall, from his seat in Kent. Lord .omen arrived yesterday at .Miller's hotel, Jermyn-street, from a tour. _ _ _ . Sir Thomas Lethbridge, Bart. M.P., arrived yesterday at his house, Whitehall-place. from his seat, Sandhill Park, Somerset. Colonel Sibthorpe arrived yesterday at IVarren's Hotel, ltegent• street, from Lincoln. The Earl and Countess Spencer are expected in town this day from their seat in Northamptonshire. Lord and Lady John Thynne have arrived in town from W rat hat Park. Carle* 31 pore, Esq. hat arrived at his house in Charles.strect, Bakeley.sysare. from his seat in Kent. Sir John Harrington. Bart. has arrived at his house in Bakelcy. !moue, from Richmond. Ali. ant: 31ni. C. Dering have left town on a tour. Arrivals at the Royal Hotel, St. Jameies—striet :--E3rl Cori, from Ireland; Sir Hussey Vivian, Bart. from his seat i t I lints; Joseph Sanders, Esq. from Liverpool ; Fowler Hicks, 1.. trout Orford ; J. H. Vivian, Esq. from his seat in %Vales ; A. Wolsten holm. Esq. front Ireland; Montgomery, 11:141. from ditto; AVard, Esq. ditto; J. Mansfield, Esq. I.P. from Ire;cestor. Sir John Welt,, But. has arrived at Fitolutf's Hotel, St..lanies's; place, from his seat in Sussex. The Earl of Goaford has arrived at Blake's Hotel, Jertnyn. street. Polignae .has issued cards of invitatinn for an evening party on Tuesday next, at her residence in Portland-place. The Dowager llarchtoness of Snliabury has issued cards " at Home" every Monday until Ewer. • . . The Couniess ur eksex had an evening party on Wednesday, at bee house in HULatreet. D;partures from il4Pulteney lintel, Albemarle-greet :—Sire. price, for her seat, at Dover ; Car aiu Clarke, lot Chatham ; amt Urvus, Esici. :or Bath. HMI WATER TRIR IiAY AT .IfI)NDIIN.BRIDITE. Morning A min. attar S. I Afternoon ?I min. few S. Printed at THE BRITISH PRESS Office. by J. W. tinst.To:.. IEI, Etracd, and publialt:d by R. Eaamota, slap plate. portunities will offer for dwelling upon them 'I they are threstertel. deprecate theist, and in ev gr.:a through this House I shall oppose them would better become the House to proceed st wetly Cie evils in the present system of In lreland—a system which originated in injustit 1. m injustize. and which. if you remain indiff, eniaelriefs, must gooier or later terminate in it , I .3ountrim It carinot be denied that the cour tranquil state than it has for a long time ?reel itoeiation Lye mainly 'Weir' is promoting ti year . I preiintcd a petition on the abuses in the 400 in Ireland. Since then the protection of t felt—the poor man enjoyed the luxury of kit sad became more sensible of its advantages. provemuLts had been visible; and these were bayou plesse—niainly the dul.ig of tn. Cathe It will be said that the Roman Catitol - e f JPlAlvner.l. 'They did look to you ; and the dit‘r Mends found their way into office 6 at rsv.4l thc-e s eiey hit them and their . . PRICES OF BRITISH Rank Stock 3 per Cent. Red. 94 3 per Cent. C , .mt. Ditto Acct. 931 a a V t, ) per Cent. V per Cent. Red. 1011 ew 4 per Cent. 103 a I ;TOLES YESTERDAY. India Stock 289 814 Ditto Rniikit 97 99 pm Long. Ann. 234 3-16 South Sea New A nnuitiss 911/ Ez.8i11‘.2d.1.0901. 63 pm Ditto, 144. 1,0001. &saes pea Ditto, binali 63 pet PRICES (IF FOREIGN Austrian Bonds 971 7 4 Brazilian Bonds 881 Ditto Scrip 16 pm Ditto Aect. 1H pm Ditto Scrip (1625) 41 1 .1 pm Ditto Acct. 41 1 pm Buenos Ayres Bomb. 914 901 Ditto Acct. 911 901 1 Chilton Bowl , 881 Ditto Acct. 66 Colombian Bonds 901 Ditto ponds 11824) 91 90 Ditto Acct. 91 190 1 French Rentes 103 f. 60c. 103 f. Exchange 25f. 10c. Sc. 10c. DittoNerip 131 pm Ditto Acct. iTOCKS YESTERDAY. (heck Bands 571 617 Ditto Acct. 571 i 7 Mexican Bonds 80Ijil3 Ditto Acct. 81 804' iteit Neapolitan Bonds Ditto Bonds (1824) 921 3 ex div Ditto Scrip 2i pm -Peruvian Bonds lit to Acct. %PI Portuguese Ronde 89t Ditto Acct. 90 Pru.sian Bonds Ditto Bonds 08221 991 Russian Bonds (1822) ni 7 Ditto Acct. t7l Spanish Cons. II Ditto Acct."! ,RFAI YESTERDAY. fRICES OF StlA' ASSURANCE COMPANIES. Share. l'oid. Alliance - .ClOO £lO Ditto "farina . 100 6 Palladium - 1,0 2 MINES. Anglo-Mexican - 100 10 Anglo-Chaim - 100 5 Arigna aual Coal MI Botaros . 400 Brag!lian - 100 Cl i . 5 Culornbian . 100 5 Gen. 51inleg Asso. 100 5 Hibernian . 4 Pasco Peruvian - 100 Seal I d Monts - 400 70 Rio dell Plata 11,41 5 Tlalitnx thus - 400 20 United "lexicon - 40 20 Welch Iron and ('nal 26 6 ti cicllr AND CONE COM. 181 Price per SW& if a 2a 105 110 1! 11 II 184 18 32S 400 pro 1264 11 1 244 5 4 23 241 24 %23 1 IS 311 31 36 13 9 4 10 pm 101 20 18 17 18 17 19 18 on 1070 284 27 220 200 pm 120 110 543 Pin PA\lr.s. British . 50 5 Provincial Portable 100 1 United Genera! -Ml 7 IRON RAILWAYS. Birminr and Liverpool 60 3 London will !tinning. 60 1 London and Bristol London and Northern MY 1 2 If 24 27 20 1:. 311itt4 i pie 2 1s II 4 3 24 3 21 3 24 f pm 1411 !SCELLANEOV7. Aulir:than 100 1 British Iron Cotnraly 100 5 Canada Compan 100 10 Equitable Loan Bank 1 Gas Engine Carriage 100 1 Gen.Stcson Navigation IVO 5 Gold COSEt Association 5 ( it.WestntlnaterDairy 26 2 Bib. Joint Stock Com. Pearl Fimbery . Prey. 'Bank of Ireland 2i 2 J 1710418 19 18 20 Yellow 13 Whit• 4445414411 w UrttifSh vrtoo. TUVITHE R01%11„ DI?Ulil-LANE. This Evening, FRIDAY, Feb. 4. will be perfumed M.I('BET IT. Macbeth, Mr. Kean; Macdutt Mr. Wallaek ; Lady Macbeth, Wm Bunn. After which a nett Pa s-- -tore/ Ballot, galled THE ROSSIGNOL Or, THE IHRD IN MnRUSIt. 'the Prhacigal Characters by Mr. and tn NoWe (theL- Z'd aypearen,e this SOL 1011). To conclude with HARLEIVIN AND THE TALKING RIM% THE HINGING TREES. AND GOLDEN WA FERS. Harlequin, Mr. Auld) Pantaloon, Mr. Manchard; Cluwn, Nr . Kirby. Columbine, Miss Barnect. Te-morrow, The Fall of Algiers, and the Pantomime. _ . TIIRATRE RO,VAL. COVENT-GA RDEX. This Evening. FRIDAY'. Feb. 4. trill be perfuru.ed DF.R FREISCHUTZ I Or, THE Ilf. ACK RUNTSMAN OF BOHEMIA. °Hewer, Mr. Laker; Conrad, Mr. Egerton; Caspar, Mr. &snow; toil laelos. Mr. ►earman; the Mark Huntsman of dollemlo. Mt. E 80, the, Misa Paton: Lena, Miss Love. After which, HARLEQUIN AND THE DRAWN or WANTLEY ; Or, MORE O• MOUE HALL. In which Jean Henri. the celebrated Tambour Majur (who 1. engages for a bunted number of \lahtal, will aice has first PerSufthhibell. Hllticyttill. Mr. Elba; Pantaloon, Mr. Itsnte.; Llowty Kr. J. S. Ge. meld!. Columbine, Mims Romer. To-morrow, The Belle's Stratagem. and the Fantuntime. te BRITISH Picas cumnimaced puithshing yesterday isarniag at five o'clock. LONDON, FRIDAY. FEBRUARY I, We have not space or time to do more than briefly call the attention of our readers to the debates iu both llousei last night. The admirable speech of Mr. S-cretary CAN. NING will be read with great satisfaction. The money markets were extremely flat yesterday. Consols, for money, were done at 931 1. The prices for the Account were 93 1 I , but scarcely a bargain was con cluded at these prices for the Account. Some heavy sales in the middle of the day depressed Consols. The Foreign market was also heavy South American Securities were somewhat worse ; Brazilian Bonds were done at SB4 ; 0:al Brazilian Scrip at 16 ; New Colombian Bonds 90 ; Greek ST ; Mexican ; Neapolitan (1620 SI. 93 ex div.; New Brazilian Scrip 41; French A rates 103. Advices were yesterday received from Bogota (Colom bia) 29th November, and from Carthagena, 17th Decent% bey. The country was tranquil ; and the general expecta tion was, that the aWairs in Peru would end in negotiation. The English Consul-General has transmitted an extract of all the commercial laws of Colombia, which, at tl:e present moment, is an important document. DOTER, Fes:St.—Last evening his Excellency Ccunt Lorios, Ambassador from the Court of Madrid to this country, arrived at Wright's Hotel, from Calais, and till.; morning set off to London, under a salute from the gu7ti at the Heights. Sailed his Majesty's packet Spitfire, with the mail, and Viscountess Hampden, Lee cant:qr., and suite. Arrived his Majesty's packet the Fury, bringing over the remains of the late Right lion. the EN.) of Thanet. His Majesty's cutter the Carrieleon has taken and sent in a smuggling boat and six men, which she took off Rye, tngethse with one hundred and forty half ankers of foreign spirits. The Marchioness of Coivngham is confined by indispo sition at the residence cf her son, Lord Mounteharks, in Pall-mall. It is reported among the haul ton, that Lard Henry Cholinondeley, second son of the Afewinis of Choltnondelev will shortly lead to the hymeneal altar Miss Arbuthnc:, second daughter of the Right flop. C. Arbuthnot. We understand that Mr. Mtn has in the press " A" Ancient Tale New Told," calleW Shalispeare's Crab Tre which will contain soine curious epee:toms of that c 1 - hrated poet. as well as of Kings Edward IV. and Charles I: and also of his present Majesty. MARRIED. • osi the 2,1 instant, John Ed;;;:4l;;;Whism, of Melbourne Ent - . in the county of Camhridge. Esq., to Harriet, second daughter John Gurnee, Esq., King's Counsel. On the dth of September hug, at St. Thomas's Mount, liadr'. Lieutenant snd, Adjutant Henry Stales Ford, (lithe Horse M. - levy, to Myra Ann, daughter of Maim-Colonel Taynton, of Hon. Company's Artillery at that Presidency. 8 311 u; 2} 2 2 lil El). At Felder, Kent, on Oh- 3lst January, Frances, relict of theist* Antitii.ty Gel!, Esq. in her 34th year. On the 3d of August, et Ilarrackpore, in the IRth year of her age, Eliza flelen, eldest daughter of Lieutenant-Colonel Commandant trines, f'.11., 39th regiment Bemr,al lsiat;re Infantry. (ht the 29th ult., in Marlborough-place, Brighton, aged I. the Rev. l'Akingl o6 Oforite Ton - Arne, LL.D., We of Bucki..lol Park, in the county of Hereford. On Monday last, suddenly, aged 30. Mr. Wm. Carterriglit, of flhaneery-lane, enlicitor, only son of Richard Cartwright, Esq., of hunter -street, Brunswick-tit - ponce. Ors Tuesday last, at Bromley, Middlesex, John Shuttleworth, Fwq., in elte 64th year of his ege. At het house, on the 2U tall, , Susan Lady Hay Dalrymple, of Park. 1 _. I i g ii •: }~~ NIP ww old Bac 4th, fte.l tali A r e t rat us Febri G annot Pliß orders T h :hall trusts Fc B' Th of CAI Depo Navy mph Lighi will C rientb Sol Linca Me Pla cuplei the 0 Surre Refer of the other Mein Per Depot apro wi l l b Enact A T A( puma and ni It it °etc! may I presu direct i ihe o Jib feel wtf ii deal Iliat 140 111071 tiVel TI Ma ‘Vi Ric Wi