The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-05-12 00:00:00

teisuriw"—isTbe House metaled, and leave was giftil to bring in the bill accordingly. Committees ware appointed to inquire into the Estimates alGreat Brom. Mt, GRI,NriLL rive metier. that be would, ou Monday, 'wove for Copies a the Correspoudenre between His Ma jesty's Monsters an.l the Commissioaers of Assessed Taxes, Mafia, to retrospective Sartliargas. • • Mr. Comma browestusti t►e Report elite Embezzlement w►ieh was received. The amendments were ordered fu beenyrossad, wad the lilt to be read a third time se Manley - twat. Si, Jone ANITZUMEII brought op the Report of the Casomittee ue East Irdi• Atkin. ()tamed to be printed. The Foreign lice• Bill was read a third time sod passed. The West laths Inerreace Bid was reedit t►ird lime and passed. Sir R. WARD, it the •become of au Hoo. Gentleman, postpmed the motion relater to the 'Navy Estimates mid ♦dditional Semmes, to Monday nest. SPANISH PAPERS. Mr. Sutaioausitid, that, understanding the Papers for which he had moved, could not be pro duced so speedily as he conceived, he found it in dispensable to postpone his motion with respect to Spain and , Portugal, from Friday week, to Friday fortnight. He supposed, that, in the interim, the priming of the papers would take place, and super. cede the necessity of a further delay. He war the atore incited to this postponement. as there were other papers upon the subject, which should be , laid before the House previous to its discussion. SiR F. BURDETT'S ACTIONS. • The SPILAKER informed the Ho►►se, that he had received a letter from Lurd Moira, muting. that he had received name of an action from Su Francis Burdett, in enum.vieuce of, which be gave three. fiats to Mr. harrow, his Coutual, to act in his ale relive ; and did not require the interference of the House with respect to the scam►. The letter was ordered in be entered on the Journals. _ _ PRIVILEGES OF PARLIAMENT. _ Mr. D. (71:1;11b7oi;ihtup the Report of the Committee appointed to consider of the proceedings in the case of Sir F. Burdett. The Report stated, that the Committee had taker' measures for the purpose of collecting all the precedents respect ing this case, and found that there were many in 'tenets co-ncident with the conduct of Parliament in the case of Sir Francis Burdett. It was a repe tition of what tied bean the uoiforsa obserrince of the House of Commons in yaws of insult and in. dignity. The recognitioa uf the rights and privileges of that House war a topic into which they did not then intend to enter. Many instances were ad. duced. from the reigns of Henry VIII. asst Charles H. of the similar mode of conduct adopted in cases where the House had been treated with contempt, The cases of Topliam, Judge Pemberton, cud Sir Wan. Williams. were Win r:ed to. The Report concluded with a statement, that it appeared to the Committee that the Coaduct of the parties, iu bringing the actions against the Speaker and Ser. I jeant-at-drins, vt..s en infringement of the privi k,s ~1 th a t H o u s e ; th a t th e com m,tm en t of the Solicitor in the case would not be • means of stopping the proceedlags; and that it appeared lie cessary that the Speaker and Serjeantoit-Arms should appear in the *dim). sod directions be given for their defence in the said action. Mr. Davies Gunn concrixed. that this report should be taken, instemer, into the consid.eratioe of the Heim. There were three courses, which, on referring to Innen higher opinions than his own, he found the House could, on this momentous OCee.ioh* pursue. They might proceed by inhibi tion to the Courts below, not to act in a, cze.e where their privileges were concerned ; and this course he would have preferred, bet that, on searching for precedents, he discovered, that it rots not the line chalked out by our ancestors. There were, then, two ocher mat •s of proceeding. more conge- . • Dial to former . practice. The inn, to proceed against the persons of the prosecutors. and their agents, for infringikg upon their privileges, rather than iii defence of the Gentili; and tins was a caws , - sincrioned by the whole preceding practice. of Pirlialmnt in this way. Expediency might, however. restru.o them Gum taking up the matter in this high oanii. , r, and toe only other course left for them to pointy, was, bird° something by which the Court of Law in which the action WAS brought, should be regularly interned of the nature of the cause, and impliciation, in it of their !warders,. Of .1-ing this there were two modes; either to put in s pl.-•• of abatement, or • a Rhea in her. Were they to adopt the latter, and plead their privileges, in hay of the jurisdiction of the Court. much tune would be reipaired before the matter was filially bruught to issue. If they fixed on the former, which, under all the cireuinstances of the case, he felt it his iln.y to recommend, nu time was to he lost, as to-morrow wns the last day by law for pit ting in the pies. 0 i these considerations, he moved "That the Report be now laid on the table." Lord MILTON understood from the rcpurt, and front the present motion, that it was ittiendrd to defend an action against the Speaker, as the organ of the House. If the Speaker did appear in Court, and. after that, the Court should proceed, ht called on Gentlemen to consider, in what a strange situation the House would lee placed, defending an actin*, involving its privileges. to an inferior Court, front which an appeal, in the common course of law, might be made to the House of Lords; and thus their privileges come under the decision of that other branch of the Legislature ? How alarm ing was this aspect and prospect. Were they, after the lapse of a century—after the decision in the Ayle.braty cause, to give up . all that they had then gained, and submit their privileges to be tried in the Hodge of Peers ; a thing which. by the Comiti tutting, could not be submitted to. without de stroying those privileges altogether ? Upon so important a question as this, it well b e c a me them to puttee ; particularly after having, by their own imprudent and improvident act. constituted a Committee to recommend legal pleadings. %Vas it to be borne, that their privileges should take the chance of tieing overturned in the Court of King's Bench ? He begged of them to avert so dangerous an experiment. But thongh thii was his strewn. he did not go so far as to think it would be ex pedient to commit the prosecutor's solicitor, &c. in the present state of the proceeding s. They ought not to suffer their privilege s t o be frittered away by coming before inferior Courts; but yet, he did not think it would diminish these privilege,. if they re mained as they were at present, without taking the step recommended by this motion. If they took no steps, they would not be in a worse situation than they were now; bat s if iiiey suffixed their Speaker to go into a ldwer (loud, they surrendered their privileges for ever....(Here„ - alludiiig to AS ex - preasion he•hesrd used bj' Laid reilkstone; who sat near him)—Lord Milton. continued : Hie No.. Me Friend skid, illegal privileges—(Near. hear) — He denied the fact.' The House had. exerciied . no illegal privilege. This Law of Parliament was. of as much weight, and es much to be respected, as the Common Law or the Statute Law. By tienching upon it, as much as by incroaching on the other two. would the Constitution of the coun try be deteriorated. if once yielded to, one of their privileges after another might be questioned in Courts of Law ; and thus, by degrees, that might be destroyed, which alone supported the liberties of the people against the Crown: It was true their privileges might be used improperly; hut it did not thereVre follow that they were to be arraigned in • Court of Law, nor did it therefore follow that they were altogether to be subverted, which were the safeguard of the people's liberties. and the bul wark of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear.)—Ht trusted the House would resist the inroad. whether .eroning from clamour out of doors, or from a Chan cellor of the Exchequer. Heaven avert the day on which their Speaker went to plead before an-in ferior Court, for on that day, with their privileges, their liberties would be extinct ! ' Lord. FOL[UTONC had not intended to trouble the House at this time, but from the allusion to am espasssion from him, overheard by the Noble Lord who spoke last. Hedid contend, that there might arise a state of things in which their privi leges might be disptited in a Court of Justice. If they went the length to which the arguments used on this occasion seemed to go, and if they would justify every exercise of power for which they could hind a precedent, then they mightdewhatt ver they pleased, end the person suffering under their act could have no, rt.-toady. To exemplify to• what length. this might be carried, he would suppose an extreme case, for it was by supposing extreme caws shine, that principles could be tried. Sup pose, fonnilingtheniselves on precedent,they should commit a person fur a limited time, was it to be conteeded, that the subject could have no remedy against this arbitrary measure ?—sSup poi.e they were to fine or to piilory a person, should the person aggrieved have no remedy ? Suppose they hail chosen to puni.h Mr. Gale Jones, as they had once punished a person, by putting him ou horseback, with his face to the tail, thus conducting h.tn to Charing-cross, and, after having •put him in the pillory there, committed , him to Newgate for life ; could not that exercise of poser be legally disputed ? if they chose again to exercise this right, it was monstrous to contend that they could thus treat any man. without ameuable to a Court of Justice. And yet it • ould he the case. were they to plead against the juris diction of the Courts, in preference to putting in a plea in bar. With regard to the Report. lie la mented that ever a Committee had been appointed to Rite their opinion on this subject. He wished it had been left to the course of law. without the in- terfetence of the House at all. He did not, how. ever, quarrel with tir4teport ; though it appeared to hen to be deficient in that species of information which the House most required from the Cons minter. It produced a case in the third year of Charles the First. which went directly against the opinion it recommended a for in this case the House had altered its cause, owing to proceedings in a Court of Law. The MI of, Rights had been often. referred to during these diacusisious, and per ticnlarly that passege which declared that the pro ceedings of Partisan-at were not to he questioned out of Parliament. lint the case before them had nothing to do with what was done in, but what was done out of, Perlis ent.—( 1k ar. Rear.)—Fle main tained that it had not ; for what had the breaking open of Sir Francis Burdett's doors to do with whit war done in Parliament ? The Report, in stating the case of Sir John Elliot, &c. had omitted a very material partiof that case, namely, that the House of Commons, not content with their own &elan.- tion, sad the declaration of the Hann of Lords, against rise decision of the Court of Kiog's Bench, hid brought a writ of error Into the House of Lords, to have the sentence protionticed reversed. This proved that this Monte . tif Lords had &Jeri' called on by the House of Commons itself, to de cide on its privileges. The Report also stated the case of Sir Francis Pesabertrin; and he was our prised that, after the.consideration of that case, any man could wish the •Speakee to plead against the jurisdiction• of a Court of Law. It was held in that case, that if the Speaker pled, the Court was to consider. eat the: privileges of the House of Comments, , bat. whether the person against whom the action was brought had acted according to these privileges ? He held that the privileges of the House were knows, to lawyers; and though the opioion of Lord Coke was often rooted, to chew that they were known to hut few Parliament men; yet Lord Coke,s in an after-passage. explained the reason of this to be, that few persons would take the trouble. to learn their uatare and extent. but any one might do so who would take that trouble. He approved.of the suggestion, that the Speaker should plead to the Court in bar of the action now brought against him. Mr. Wnersatiati observed, that the plain ques tion before them now was, whether the report should lie upon the table? and he would have in terrupted his Noble Friend, to remind him of this, hot from a desire not to break in upon his speech. He was averse to this premature discussion, and thought the Right Hon. Gent, opposite, (Chan cellor of the Exchequer,) and his Friends, who had broeght them into their difficulty. ought to state ' their opinions, and not now be allowed to gather from the feelings on the other side, the mode in which the y might procure • vote to bear them through. He wished to confine the present discuss. sion to the point of order. and on the ulterior course of proceeding, before they gave their opinionsou his side of the House. to hear what the-Chairman of the Committee had to propose. • Mr. W. WYNN agreed with thedast - epeelier, that a premature discussion of any of the points connected with this subject was to be deprecated, butt it was impossible to sit still or suffer any other subject to intervene, after hearing the very extreon. dinary doctrines advanced by the Noble Lord be hind hint (Lord Folkston.) lu opposition to that doctrine, he held, that all the privileges of the Rouse must be discussed in the House s end no where else's nod that when they first departed from Shot, their ruin began. The Noble Lord supposed 'extreme cases—but he saw nothing contrary td reason in the House having the power to tine now,. as they had in the year 1669 fined White 10001.— Tlidouly thing to be considered was the time when IL was proper to exercise these rigbti. Ho Nlen'ted that the Court of King's - Bedell could interfere to wordy any arouses that might be committed by the House. It. was she opinion of Mr. Fox, that it was the most absurd thing sable to argot' from extreme cases, in discussions on a subject like the present, since, by' the nicety with which the coMpouent pares of the Con stitution ivite'balanced, aitd'theie action upon each other, alf eitredie cases were prevented. For iu stance, the King might order the first regiment of Guards t o go into the House of Lords, and take their seats as Peers; but the other'brauches of the Constitution would soon remedy thy, extreme ex ercise of the power of the Crown. He laid it dorns . as a first principle, that the High Court of (atolls- Inept was the source of power. As all human in stitutions were liable to error, they might Oct wrong; but it did not, therefore, follow, that there could be an appeal to an inferior court. Do as they pleased, there must at last hr a power in the state, against which there could be no appeal ; (hear' hear ! ) and as well might the Noble 'Lord talk of referring to • Quarter Sessions to reverse the decisions of the Court of King's Bench, as of referring to the Court of Kiug's Bench to re verse the decisions of the Commons' I lotise of Par hanient. —( Hear ! hear ! )—Should any Judge en tertain an action against their privileges or pro ceediuga, he wad amenable to Ahem, sod liable to be punished on the Bill of Rights. Tho Hoit. gent. then alluded to the precedent 'eatattialted in the instance of his etre:Hera ancestor, Sir W. Williams, against whom the Court of King's (tenets gave judgment; but which judgment wits immediately afterwards reversed by the House, aid . tommol. or dered to be repaid to Sir William, out of the pith lic money. In the first instaace, however, the mo- sey wets directed to be paid by Sir Roinert Sawyer, who opposed this; and, through his interest, the Bill was lost, after a second reading in the House of Lords. Another cctioa was brought aping Sir William Williams, by Lord Peterborough. fur scandalous lads4rnat sama ; but this was afterwards corn promised. Would they. on these precedents, decide that that House should sobluit to be tried b) an in fere* Covert Neither could they do so, 011 the precedent in the ell 4. of 'Popham. Sec. in which Parliament was prorogued, during the time the Serjeant-c-Arms was in the country, executing his wyrrant. Burdett milled witnesses to prove. that force was used every tune he mounted his horse ; and it was for the assaults committed by the Ser. jeant, after the power from which bus warrant was Arrived had ceased to exist, that the action against him was carried into Court. The ArroutitYLGENeast. applauded the Hon. Gentleman who preceded, for his manly answer to the arguments of the Noble Lord, and for his ex cellent and constitutional exposition of the Pri vileges of Parliament, with every word of which he perfectly agreed. The argument of the Noble Lord was founded on this, that there toi l ed be an abuse committed by the House of Commons, against which there was no remedy. While men were men, it was true, error could never be eradi cated ; but carry the Noble Lord's principle, on this subject, a little further than he had done, and see to what consequences it would lead. Suppose all the Courts in the country should abuse the law --.-Suppose the Court of Common Pleas, front some secret corruption, should der:isle, contrary to a law, to the oppression of an individual—he op pealed to the Court of King's Bench, which (he hoped he would' he • pard!lneil for using amb -a supposition, even for mite ofiegitment) paratking in the feelings of the ,ofter Court, should come to similar decision.—From 'thence the wronged suitor carried his cause to the Muse of Leads, whose judgment was ultimate and decisive, and thiy. in• fluenced by the general . Cortiiption,sidatuld tonfirm the iniquitous verdicts of the inferior Courts. Supposing all this, he would ask, whet remedy the angering individual could have ? aCknow... hedged that no Court, that no country could exist where such profligacy prevailed ; hatheentele an extreme cam of abuse ed• privileges osiglit take Once. could-it thence be argued, that, there. fore, sneh privileges ought not to exist at all ? --Could this . argunient• be sustained, it would not only put an end to the privileges of the House of Coatroom, but to all powers of judicature, and the privileges of every other Court. He again warmly commended the arguments of his Ho nourable Friend (Mr. Wynn) who had well con tended, as well might the Quarter Sessions be appealed to to decide against the House of Lords, isa the Court of Kiag'i Bench exceed its legal constitutional limits, and controul the limb! of Commons. The House was the sole and ulti mate judge of its own privileges and of their extent. No Court had any jurisdiction to decide on their *salience or extent. They were to be judged by this House alone. No other body had the power to decide. Nut but that their privileges might be incidentally brought before another Court, which Conrt, however, could not look to their privileges, but to their decisions upon them. It was by these that the Court would be hound to deride. • Mr. Pousamse izminded the House, that the question before them was simply for laying the Report on the Table, to which he thought there could be no-objection. He regretted that this was not more contemplated,, as it was most injurious. in this very important question. to have a premature debate on ulterior objects. He had opposed the appointment of this Committee, whose Report being laid upon the Table, would have no more effer.t upon this great question, than if he threw (kW hat upon it ; but he hoped,- after items Intl there, Ministers would muster up courage puffirient to tell the House what plan they were to expect to proposed by them. The question was then put and eerrierl. - • Mr. IA Gionc, in pursuance of the task irs ported upon him, toile to propose another siverioolo• the House ! He bad hoPed,however ralyb • theacee tlemen opposite had differed in opinion espeelling the appointment of the Committee, yet that when it was aponitited, by a gre4t majority of the Mouse. they would have contributed by their assistance and advice to direct the cousse winch the public good rendered it most expedient to pursue, it appointed in that hope, he still thought Slur s the Committee bad made tioass.ttt i nhHi h tihoca)h e rneeete i e r ,wart iweh r onr i deuh p i ipinotdeceigrh e nticed, ioab t , mtnaswes t. ilemen would not have looked ,on d h ) as spectators of the di f f i culties in which they *dered the House to be involved, or have d prise; moroeutuus e • peech, rels. tits to the three modes in which the House INltjtt tot ac ve preferred : PTleesdinlighuee i esnd!eutitl a h . un i N o ble hT ing i n i b E hfyd i c e l bha v : iedi Nl rtbrel a ir l iGie i t n :o ll o in antre r queut of ' against Mr. Abbott, es an individual, by beam, alai not iu the character of Speaker of the Ilous s o f Commons, would be. that the,Court, unspprizecl of this circumstance, and the involution of their pn. villegrs, would permit toe action to go on. We re the House to adopt the second course, and reining the Solicitor, &c. others, if not the persons core. emitted, would go on with the *Won to an u n li mited extent. There waa then no oar course but to Ku into the Court, in a certain degree, in so fir as ✓ude, that the privileges of the House were convert, ed iu the action. Ceder these coliaidersimu s , a n d for the reason& he had.alresdy given, preferrung the plea in bar e to the plea iu abatement, he would coo. chide by nemi l / 2 . TIIAT USN SPURR.' AND SEM J_BANT SE TO ANTE/111 AND PLIED TS TNN SAID ACCIIISS.' The Noble Lord opposite (Milton) had roe nnmendeil that they should take no steps at . II ; hut if this advice was taken, the consequence would he. th it the Court would pro. need with the cause, and judgment to the full ex. t• nt of the damages laid, would go by Mundt. If • the Gentlemen oppoei.e 6viidetsined the steps now ✓u commended, they ought. es Members of Kills -went; not to wrap themselves up art silence, h u er, fur the good of their country, state what course appeared to their judgments to be better. n ew might say the Hodse was under difficulty, aid hr was free to confess they were ; but it was a difficulty not wising out of the rase itself, but out of the imperfection of the Constitution, ia, aot anticipating and providing a :Ain't leo eats a cam—Meer, heui, frost tie Opporiliois at./ —Hr repeated, that it was au imperfective, not to foresee and provide against the extreme CDs of an individual so dents as to resist the authority tuf the House of COIDIIIOiI%. But it was 800, as Gen tlemen who cheuered„ltin nii4ht contend, at all de. pendent upon this particular case. Last Sento. these gentlemen were not sparing of commitments; and sunder resistance sod similar legal proceedres might have arisen out of these as out of this; the same difficulty would have ensued. Therefore, it did not depend on the committal of Sir F. Burdett, hut on the nature of the thing itself. He conduit. ed by moving, " That it was the opinion of the House," &c. In the terms stated in the prog.ess of his speech. A question being put from the opposition side of the Humor, as to what was the sub.eqiieuit proceed. ni g he haul to propose, Mr, thous ,toted, that, if his present motion was Receded to, lie would then oticr another. " That THU A rrortNEI.GINF. ESL SHOULD DE INSTRUCTED 110 IMPLSD SPICASES •ND NT." Mr. Pow/lower understood these motions to be made in concurrence with His Nl+ ty's 51p,t.ter,. and in conformity to the opinions they emertriurd on this subject. He wished to know if he ass correct iu this supposition. and that the room pro. posed was that which tbey would recommend to the . House .The CHANCELLOR of the EieHeQUER in reply had ti hesitation in an. venlig this ire,. - lion with u decided yes; would the Right Honour. ob* gentlemen, bud - he put the question to him. have given a emoilar answer ?—(!fear !) Mr. Pox:maim said. if he, as the Right no. nnurable Gentleman had done, had brought the House into any difficulty, he would he 'divined of Imnself if he WAS nut the first to give it iiiteadrice how it might be extricated. ( Hear ! hear!) Whet he would say on this most momentous question, he inquired not whether it would he popular or um. popular. Ile did not know whether in the House, or out of the House, it would he approved or dis approved ; hnt this lie did know, that unless the House came to (-coons dectiociii, a decision which .his duty to his country bound Imuto enlorce, as far as his ablities would go, the liberties of his country were in his opinion at 1111 end. To him it appeared wideninhler that the House of Commons possesses) the privilege tot:canna for libel. 'nun , mg inn, he never should refrain from declaring his sentimental.; and touch as he esteemed the opium& of the people, he would treat them as he would and had treated the King when he was hie servant —he would serve them both, but he would flatter neither., (Hear! hear!) The first principle of law which he would lay down was, that the House was the sole judge of its own privileges. l'he /louse alone could declare what was their nature— wasah their exteat.—in what manner they should be IA. ercited• No Court, however high, could or ini4lit to be allowed to meat :le with their decisions. (Hear!) The next principle of law he submitted was . that after the House had declared what its priileges were, ell Courts were bound to pay respect mil obis.. darner to that declaration, as soon es it should he made known to them. That these opinions might not be said to rest on his own authority, which could not carry with it much weight, he hod taken rather an unusual liberty, and brought seisiral books down with him I. iiie House. Froth these, the highest and best of authorities, contaiiiing the opinions of the greatest, the wisest, and most eh.. lightened men that ever hired, it would be sem. that, they held the PROW doctrines h e now, at eon that humble distance. maintained. He hail b r ought the hooks with him, that, in their own wo rds, he might submit to the Hone the sentiment' of these ireuer able and illustrious authors, rather than bY gnek'" e‘trActs, which might alibi, ct hiio to the charr a partial or etrbied selection. The first to w hich he called, the attention of the House, was LOA Hide's T'reetise m the‘nriglial Imetitatim, P. e , , and Joripdeetim of PieetiomMt. From this L treN en o e bed ut set tF: l u el t z' l l g oet e ngewl is p f aiiags:igisuesedria. P'ipnatrowirih:laiet;;l:files.ittiewla4ofjeePrrec4l7:4lrii: dew lems et emmetudiame Portimteette. wa s • fined to be the law of the land, sod that ever! Member of Parliament had it judicial aut . borlq!"'' . Autruledged and confessed by ledges is tors°o