The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1826-02-18 00:00:00

a, Later charge of libel was a fit subject for the cognizance of the d o rs al tribunals of the country. Suppose the charge of libel ' tru e. and Mr. Franks brought an tenon agaiast Mr. Kenrick As the Liston of the lioJse. This suggested itself to him as of ‘ l,,,Figeultiati which might arise, and he onie mentioned it t • canonic. Again, suppose the Hottse, by • majority, f x ;; -. 1 - im atca guilty, and a Jury ewe afterward* to a dif. t ? He would not say that the possible proceed. toss • tribunals should bind the House, but when questions e 1,., ii y was or before them it was advisable to give these . .rdte d..' consideratio.i. r^" • alit NE surprised to hear it asserted that one of the S 1., . was l o m -ost Mr. Kenrick was for a malicious prosecution. As sbel f u • as Ls; (Wild understand the amount of the charge, it went no f .eta than to allege that Mr. Kenrick prosecuted Franks without f fi c ia • p-nof, If this was really all the ground of complaint in a • rsc to this particular, the only charge remaining was the pub ft; t ai the libel : but the Howie should consider that he had tot eshialed this libel in his character of Magistrate or Judge. It aid spar to him it was the moral private character of Mr. Ken net the flame was inquirin into objection and that to proceed with such al e. qu was to establish a very able precedent. il HLNMAN mid not help expressing his surprise at the aug esnon that this inquiry was an investigation into the charm vs of Mr. Kennet as a private individual. The ground on which it Tommie was as distinct fain this as possible. Mr. Ktinnek west two the Court of King's Bench and moved for a formation winst Mr. Franks ; and from the affidavits then put an, he (Mr. Denman) founded the present charge. This was no: nisch of a private proceeding ; it was a oration made of course in span Court, it beeline the sub;ect of general discussion, and was cued-tied by the one thousand newspapers and publications of the day. Some allusion had been made by the Member for Hertford (Mr. Limb) to a peculiar kind of bargain which was supposed to twist ender particular circumstances ; but he disclaimed any thing 4 . the kind. It was not only unustal amongst the profession, but tettereva it appeared world entail disgrace and ruin. The Member for Peterborough (Mr. ncarlett) observed that diet care eras involved in great difficulties, because a Jury might come to one conclusion. and the House to another t but was this an emu mem that could be considered as applying ? If it did, tt applied also to its full eaten(, and It would be ridiculous hereafter for the lionse to suppose that it had ibe power to question any Judge on the lunch. Tht question was, if the proof was sufficient; in his udignent it would he found to make out the charge. His charge of libel was derived wholly from the affidavits—it might beconsidered • translation of them. Here was found • calumnious letter basely a spersing the character of hly. Freaks. Ile was aware that the writing c f a libel was sometimes the most meritorious act of a man's life; but this was not the use when a rash individual, first failing ;n his attempts to persecute an individual, afterwards tried to tun him down by publishing that leapecting him which was untrue. Ie had been also said that the charges should.not be connected, but the character of a libel depended on general circumstances; it was nor to be ascertained by a single isolated fact. Mr. Kenrick had dinged Franks with four facts, all of which he could prove to be false. If the House had any duties to perform to the public, one of them unquestionably was to keep the administration of justice lure. If any one possessed of common honesty or feeling should say that he who first persecuted, and then published a letter calum tisting a poor man, was a fit person to be intrusted with the admi. aistration of justice, to such he would exclaim. " In God's tame let the present proceeding be abandoned." Was the House ready to lay down a rule that nothing but what was done by a Judge in his public capacity was to be brought before the Home ? Was it to be said that open and notorious infamy was to be made no came of proceeding ? if this were to be the case, the power of that Hoses would soon become a dead letter. lie had been tempted too far at this stage of the business; but his impression was, that if peeper inquiry did not take places when such instances as the pre heat arose, those officers which ought to possess the entire confidence end respect of the public, would be looked upon with jealousy, dis trust, and contempt. Dlr. fiCARLETT explained. He did not say that notorious infamy was not a proper subject to be brought before the Houma What he meant was, if any person were libelled and applied to the !loose, the proper answer would be, " Go and bring your aititin in the ordinary way." Mr. STIi.IRT WORTLEY said he saw no offence upon* charge which was made. Mr. Kenriek wasesid to have gone before& neighbouring Magistrate and preferred a false charge. Another of the offences was, that he had offered Franks, that if he would plead guilty to apart of the charge, he should be visited with a less swoons of punishment. There was nothing extraordinary in this : it was every day offered to those committed on charges of forgery that if they chose to plead guilty to the minor offence, they would incur a punishment less extensive. It was true that the House did not allow any Judge to judge of their privileges. But ;ad turbid that private affairs should become the subject of their gamin, I An investigation by that House was particularli liable to prejudice. If he were to be tried for a libel he should say, '• Give me twelve honest men to try me; I prefer them to such a tribunal as this." (blear, bear.) The Hon. Member concluded by saying that he should support the amendment. Mr. ABEHCROhlilit said that he conceived when an indivi. dual so conducted himself that !Bloaters could not feel themselves justified in appointing such a person as Judge, the time had arrived for steps to taken to remove him. VICu the consideration no. thing that • Judge should possess a pare and untainted character ? Many lientlemen seemed to think it beneath them to look into the punt, of the administration of_justies ; but they took a different view of their duty from him. He agreed with the lion. Secretary who had said these were all questions of degree, and all who beard that statement would feel that this charge did not stand by a sepa ration of the charges, but by the mutual support they afforded each other. It had been said Fmk, wu ultimately committed by the Grand Jury ; but let it be recollected • country Magistrate pos. snood a cunsiderable degree of influence, and that should be in. /paired into, If he complained that he was brought unfairly before the public, he should be told that it was his own act. He regret. ted to observe so many respectable Members treating this inquity as one of very trifling importance. Mr. Secretary CANNING said, of all questions brought before the House there was not one, perhaps, on which every_ Member world be so free as here to act on his own opinions. He would shortly state his reason fur giving his support to the original mo. Om. if it were a question now introduced for the first time, he should probably agree with those Gentlemen who thought that there was not that in the charges which should induce the House to institute an inquiry ; but he could trot forget that it was counte. minced during the last year; and more eape:ially he could not for get that his Honourable Friend (Mr. Secretary Peel) did induce the Learned Gentleman to postpone a part of the question, without intimating that it would, when again introduced, be opposed. He, therefore, vu compelled to say that lie would not now, on a new view of the case, though that view might be different from the ma originally taken, interpose anything which would obstruct the pro mess of the Learned Gentleman's motion. The Learned Gentle. man bad consented to • postponement of his motion at the request of his Honourable Friend, that the press of public business might not be interrupted ; and he had a right to suppose that that cour tesy which he had observed wouldoot beopposed by the new matter now introduced. iir7.ligKlS(_)N said that Mr. Kenrick wished the House to understand he was quite prepared to go into his defence. He threw himsclf upon the pleasure of the House, and was ready to abide their decision. Ile (Mr. Denison) perfectly agreed with what had bees said by the Hon. Member for Yorkshire (Mr. Stuart Won. ley), but enoth.l. Hon. Member had asserted that Mr. Kennet might have had mute acquaintance and influence with the parties who committed Franks. When the punishment was reflected on, to which the Magistrate might be subjected before whom Franks was taken by Mr. Kenrick, and when it was considered jury who founds true bill against Frwtlu , found it on their oaths, he thought the ague supposition of the Hon. Member was without founds. Sir W. W. WYNN said this was the sequel of the charges be fore the Mouse last session. He conceived they would be guilty of great injustice if they allowed one of the charges to influence the ether. lie was satisfied that if in consequence of the evidence there there were sufficient grounds to impugn Mr. Kenrick, there was a *crest reason why the prosecution of the cause should not be takeu out of the precincts of the ordinary tribunals. This transaction was public—it was well known : but whether it was the transaction of a public or private individual, that individual was liable in the ordinary way. If be should be convicted of a malicious prosecu tion or a libel, the House would for the future have to take cog. nuance of all causes affeetludges • and It would not stop here, for members of Parliament mig ht be proceeded against in the same manner. They might vote for Ir. Kenrick's expulsion, butthe ono meet they opened that door. they opened it to evils which they had better avoid. In any time of political fetes eit a Member might be moved against directly he became obnoxious. Ile would also ask the House if it was desirable to entertain a discussion on a charge unless there was every prospect that such charge would be established ? What would be the consequence, too, it the other House differed from this in its decision t The individual must, In that event, remain with a deep stain on his character, and without any prospect of redress. In his opinion the House had always bet. ter confine itself to cases in which guilt had been positively and eh ettfutely shown. The Courts of justice should be allowed to decide on the offence, and then the House would possess a sure ground of removal. Upon the whole, be doubted whether the established fazts were sufficient upft which to ground a vote for an eddies, to the Crown... The gallery was then cleared for a division, when the Lumbers appeared to be—. For the motion . 81 Against it . 42 Majority —39 The Muer then resolved hull into a Committee, Mr. Gordon in the Chair. Mr. Gurney and Mr. Bollard appeared at the bar of the House en the behalf of Mr. Kearick. Mr. DENMAN moved that John Franks be called to the bar; batiks Sergeant.at.Arms reporting that he was not in attendance, limy Peters was called in and ratmined. lir. DENMAN—Are you. Sir, a magistrate of the county . of Sauey —I am. I reside within about two miles of bir. Kenna. I ens, I belletie, the magistrate before whom the daughter of Franks was brought some years ago open a charge of stealing some areides in the house of Mr. Kenrick ; I do not recollect what the 'go of the girl might have been at that time, perhaps about 14 or 15 years. lam not sure that she was actually brought before me, but I recollect granting a warrant for that purpose. There was so evidence which could affect either her father or mother, relative to that charge against the daughter; they were not charged as abettors. Some sheep were stolen Gamma at two different pale& The first time 30 were stolen, and sous wasdos fell 19 11 •itillb to consequence of a paper which was foundt • poop MOW as his house the day after the sheep were usksig g Iwo soma who really did steal them was subsequently takes up and imourna she Wooy. The mead time was two yew eitinseis, vb. sheep of mine Was killed ; but no auspition could attach it.elf to Franks upon that occavion. I received a letter from Mr. Kennck about the month of August, 1824, which letter was sent by Mr. Kenrick's servant. (The letter was here testi, and stated that he 111 r. Kenrick) en. closed the draught uf an affidavit (*hick had been hastily paeloge thee in eeneequence of the attack upon him in the Mor aine Cif/. side) relative to the ausnicious circumstances regarding Fratiks. That he had been ativieedby his Italicise: to apply to those persons who knew of the circumstances, that they might make affidavit to the facts upon which subsequently to proceed in his ju,titication. That he had some doubts as to wh et h er h e h a d rightly stated the facts regarding the sheep in the draught of the affidavit he enclosed but, it not, of course witness would alter any miatatement, and that he would see him upon the subject the ensuing day.l Witness proceeded—l did not see Mr. Kenrick, but I wrote him an answer, of which I kept no wry. The answer stated that I had no desire to make any affidavit upon a subject which had happened at such a distance of time as to have escaped from my ntemoi ; and that I thought 51r. Kenrick had better not do anything ui.on ouch grounds, as there was no proof which could attach any cri. mineral to him, the real culprit having been detected. By Mr. Qtjmy.—l do not know whether the constable who executed the warrant against Franks's daughter is dead or the con. teary. I never heard of a bloody knife being found until two years after the transaction, which, tot a time, threw suspicion upon Franks. There were no sheep killed upon this occasion s Two years subsequently & sheep was killed, and then it was that the knife was found, but no suspicion was at all excited against Franks upon the latter oecasion. Fran:it , was never broupht before him upon soy charge. Edward Arnold, examined by Mr. Dittstan.—/ am Mr. Peters's bailiff, and I remember that none of the sheep leer.: killed, nor a bleody knife found at the time the sheep were stolen, when the finding of a paper excited suspicion against Franke. All sus. piano against him was subsequent) y removed by the discovery of the real thief. A man of the name of Tindal was tried before Lord Viet:borough at the Lewes Asaisns, and transported for that °Tenet". _ _ _ John narks, examined by Mr. DE N 31A 14.—1 am now in service 1121 a gardener. I did live at Betchwnrth, where I have gut a free hold. I remember that my daughter, who was then about twelve years of age, stole some articles from Mr. Kenrick's, which were afterwards found in a small box belonging to her in my house. I was no accessary or ahettot to that theft. The articles wve not concealed, being in ber trunk, which usually stood by her bed-side in my room, where she also slept. The charge was abandoned against her. I was sent to prfson and kept there for come months, in the year 1821, for stealing a piece of wood. I gave my wife no authority whatever to intercede with Mr. Kuala on my be . half, nor did 1 eves subsequently express any gratitude to wards him. The witness was ordered to withdraw. ltir. DENMAN said that ho had no other witnesses to examine, and should therefore rest his case upon those whom he had *beady called, in conjunction with the documentary evidence which was already before the House, and which, in has opinion, fully esta blished the charge against Mr. Kenrick. Mr. Secretary CANNING said that he understood the course to be adopted was to receive the evidence that night, and to postpone the discussion upon it until another day. The CHA 'KHAN called upon the Counsel for Mr. Kenriek to say what course they intended to pursue. Mr. GURNEY said, that with the permission of the lions* be would put in soma documentary evidence relative to one portion of the charge, and subsequently address some observations in excul pation of Mr. Kenrick. Mr. DENMAN said that he thought the better course would be to come to no decision then upon the subject, but to have laid be fore the House all the evidence, documentary or otherwise, that it might be printed and distributed amongst the Members, to enable them to come peepared to the discussion upon a future tiny. Mr. Secretary CANNING made on observation which we could not hear. Mr.(ittagET said that it was his wish to put in evidence the depositions before the Magistrates in Frankest:me, as also a letter writteu by Mr. Kerrick to the Clerk of the Peace fo: the county of &WO', and also a letter to Lord Middleton, which would tend materially Miefute tote charge against Mr. Ketirkk. Charles Lawson, examined by Mr. fluagzw—l am Clerk of the Puce for the county of Surrey, and I now bold the depositions before the Magistrates in the case of Franks. The depositions were here put in and read, but they have been already before the public upon the trial of that individual, and also on the occasion of the application on the part of Mr. Kenrick to the Court of King's Bench, for a criminal information against the Morning Chronicle. The letter from Mr. Kenrick to Mr. Lawson (the witness) was also put in and read. It stated that he (3lr. K.) was desirous of hav ing the advice of Mr. L., whose practical knowledge he thought most likely to avail him under the circumstances ; that a man named Franks had been committed to prison for stealing a plank, value one shilliag, and that having already suffered three months' im. prisooment, and having behaved well during that period, he (Mr. K.) felt disposed, as the punishment already received was perhaps adequate to the offence, and as the man had a large family, and was a member of a benefit club, the ativabtages of which he would forfeit upon a conviction for felony, to give up the pro. eecution. He could not say much in favour of the man's character, but he thought the imprisonment he had suffered might tend more towards his reformation than any punishment the Court might award. •is object in addressing him was to ascertain whtther he could not withdraw the prosecution, without forfeiting his remit. nizances. .Mr. Lawson continued—l sent the letter to Lord Middleton, and received an answer trotu him in the negative. The witness was ordered to withdraw. Mr. (Ivo) ET said that he intended offering no further evidence, and with the permission of the House he would then address to them some observations upon the case. Mr. DENMAN thought that in every point of view it would be more advisable tor Mr. Gurney to defer his address on behalf of `Mr. Bentick until the evidence was printed. Mr. Gurney was then asked if he had any other evidence to offer ? and on replying in the negative, the - House resumed, the Report of the evidence was brought up, and ordered to be printed. Mr. DENMAN said he should now move that the House take the same into consideration on Tuesday next; which was agreed to, and orders given to the Counsel of Mr. Kenrick to attend. SUPPLY—NAVY ESTIM ATES. Sir G. CLERIC moved that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply. On the question that the Speaker should leave the chair, Mr. li UM krose, and said that it was his intention to oppose the Speaker leaving the chair, in consequence of the ignorance in which the House at present was as to the general expenditure; for he much feared that if his Majesty's Ministers continued a system of expenditure like that of last year, the country would be very little able to bear it. His Majesty's Ministers were going on daily increasing, instead of lessening, the expenditure; and there fore it was that he would call the attention of the House to the Report of the Finance Committee of 18111, or indeeti,lleMiihts•;, to the Report of his Majcoy's Minsters, for hi fart it was their I Report. The Committee, in their Report, declared what in their I opinion would be the expenditure of the country front the year 1816, and they considered that nineteen millions was the amount at which It was then proper to fix the expenditure of the army and navy; but as two milhons were to he appropriated for the paying off the debt, the estimate for 1817 istooti . at 17,330,0001., and to that point he would particularly call the attention of the Right Hon. Gentle man opposite. [The Hon. Member here read a part of the Report of the Committee of Finance.l The late Marquis of Lon donderry on that occasion had expatiated on the state of the country, and very forcibly described the long and arduous struggle In which it had been engaged, and stated the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to ruce the expenditure in all the establishments of Government. He (Mr. Hume) could not but consider that as 17,110.0001. had been considered the greatest amount at which the expenditureof the army and navy should stand at that period, that it would be well to consider what had been the state of the expen diture since that period; and what was the fact? why, that in every year since that period, though the country wax in a state of profound peace, it had gone on exceeding that amount by several millions. There was not one instance in which the estimates agreed with the expense. The estimates for 1618 for the army and navy were confidently stated at 17,350,0001., but on referring to the account of the expenditure for that year, he (Mr. Hume) found that the money paid was 19,130,0001. In 1819, instead of any reduction having taken place, they stood at the sum of 19,280.0001.. in 1820 at 19,388,0004 and in 1821 at 20,000,0001.1 so that they had gone on gradually increasing in the way described up to the present period: and he must submit, that if such expenditure was necessary, that it was Incumbent on his Majesty's Government to relieve the country of some part of its taxation by the reduction of the public establishments. He (Mr. Hume) was well aware ti a* the navy was the most effective branch of the national defence, and It was not his wish to lessen it. lie should wish to see, when the e::penses of the navy were being increased, wl.ether there was or was not a proportionate Increase of expense in the army, because if there should be a proportionate in crease in the army eatimates, then the expenses would be in. created 3,060,0001. more ; and it was upon that ground that he did not wish the House to go into the Committee until after the Chao. cellar of the Exchequer had laid his measures of finance before the House. It was positively necessary to see whether a reduction of taxation could not 'oe made, and whether a reduction of the large nutter, establishment could not be effected, and the House cottid not be to a proper eituatiGn to vote tie supplies foe the Navy. until they could sea whether or not a reduction might not be made in other departments. His Majesty's Speech, or rather the Speech of his Majesty's Ministers, held out hopes from year to year, which, unfortunately, were most delusive. In the years 1819, 1820, and 1821, the Speech had promised a reduction of the public esta. blishments as to their expenditure, but not one shilling had been reduced in consequence. The Speech also alluded to the state of amity and peace in which England stood with regard to the rest of the world; and as that was the case, it became necessary and im. portant fat the House to see whether a reduction In the expenditure could not be effected. The Houses would have observed by the Estimates, that there was an ineresee of 1,000 men last year, 29,000 having been voted, and 30,000 were now asked for the pre. vest year, while In the year 1817, the number amounted only to 19,000. Last year, also, a great addition took place to the army, sod, therefore ? it was impossible to look for any relief to the country ; and of such a state of things were suffered to go on, and oar establishments continued increasing, instead of diminishing le expense, It would be impossible for the country to meet any tutor. peeled dillieulty should it arise. The navy of the whole world did sot *mount to half that of England. It had been said by Gentlemen ea the opposite side of the Hosea thet the great extent of our , naval establishment was necessary in consequence of the dungen' to apprebended front the ficet of tho United Sums, bus wbot THE BRIIISJI PAS. was the fact ? He (tir. Hume) found that nary so trifling u Dot to afford the shadow of an excuse for sit incratsed atsMish meet in this country. America posausnad only seven line of battle obi" five Jorge frigates, four arwall ones, and a small number of corvettes and sloops, and suitpoaing that he gave them the benefit of um to their whole number, what wart that conapanal with the navy of England, which amounted to co ships of w-r ? The whole navy of Europe did not nuotber half those of England, supporting they were in a state for active intetfeserce, and, there- . fore, it was surely necessary to pause before the Muse added to an expense already amounting to so large a sum As the state ment of the Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was ro be made on Friday next, he hoped the Housa would pause in voting the supplies now asked for until thy were In possession of that statement, fur the House might beso situated as, after voting foe the estimates, they might be called upon to re fuse the supplies. If his Majesty's blinistets would reduce the army one third, then there might be the less objection to allowing the estimates for the navy to stand at the sum of 6.u00,0001. At the same time there did not appear any reason why n or 23,090 men might not be sufficient. inasmuch. as there was nothing in the state of Europe or America that, could justify an. increase in the naval r,r military establishments of Groat Britain. With this riev of the case, he (Mr. Hutne) felt it his duty to propose the fulowi ng amendment:— '• That the House do not go ioto a Committee of Supply on the Navy E.tirnstes until the whole of the financial sate of the country hat I.e:n laid hgore the (louse." TLe CIIANCELLoR of tt e 'EXCHEQUER 'apprehended that the only question before the Housewas, *he her the Navy Estimate nog it to be voted or not, by going into a Committee. o:* for t h at purpose. If the House went into the Conimit t t 1.13 his Honourable Friends in their several departments vr:u'd have an opportunity of explaining and answering any questions tbs HonoundS'as Gentleman (Mr. Hume) milbt put, and tnat was cearly the usual course of proceeding. It had however tar 'be last there or fo Jr years been attempted to get information out of he 'Tutu eou-oe. He (the Chaiicellor of the Exchequer) had b via most anxieus to bring forward bis view of finance at the earliest possible period, but he had never known the House to re fuse going into a Committee of Supply. If the House abstained from going into the C immittee until he had gone into his whole measure of fiance, item by item, it would be a matter wholly un able ((whim (the Cosucellor of the Exchequer) to perform, because the duty of various explanations rested frith those whose depart mental experience rendered them the fittest medium by which they could be conveyed, and any departure from that rule would be a most inconvenient course of proceeding. Upon these grounds, therefore, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) should object to the proposition of the Honourable Gentleman. Mr. T. 11. DAVIS seconded the motion of his Hon. Feleid (Mr. Hume), and said that he could not give his Majesty's Minis ters credit for economy. If the House, as suggested by his lion. Friend (Mr. flume) were favoured with the statement of the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, then it would be in a situation to deter mine on the navy estimates. He (Mr. Davies) would wish to re duce other establishments, particularly the army, and if the; esti mates for that branch of the public servlee were not upon a scale below that of several years past, it would be his (Mr. Davis's) duty to move for a reduction. It was impossible his Majesty's Ministers could act with consistency unless they caused h reduction in the public establishments, and in taxation. The question of a free ttatle was a very doubtful measure, when a view was taken of the state of taxation, and of the public debt. Without pledging him self as to the vote he should give on the question of the Navy Estimates he felt bound to second the aMeadment of his Hon. Feint' (Mr. Hume). Mr. BRIGHT rose to express his opinion that his Majesty's Ministers had not done all they could have done in the way of re. doction, and he called upon them during the next three days which would elapse before met again to consider what was the real state of the cannery. He (Mr. B ) was ready to go into the (rues. don of redaction of public establishments, but thought the Navy Estimates ought not to be voted until the finance system had been submitted. The !tight Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Etehequer had ;aid that such a proceeding would be highly Inconvenient. Did he mean to say, that of necessity the finance statement was to stand over until the estimates were voted. It did appear whim (Mr. Bright) that it was perfectly necessary to know the statement of the Right Honourable Gentleman the Chancellor of the Excheemer as to taxation. for it might happen to be news. sary tb make a prnposal for raising money, whilch). proposal might ' not be sanctioned by Parliament, and how was it possible to vote money without its being lesown what was the. amount Parliament' had at its disposal. It would have been satisfactory if his Majesty's Kintners had shown, when they stated the necessity of the sum ooyf required for the navy, that what was done was cheaply done. Be (Mr. Bright) considered that no case had been made out to. show the necessity of coming to a vote on the qustion of the Navy Estinuites, until the muse knew what were the means it bad to apply. Mr. C. H. Hutchinson said that the view hie Honourable Friend• (Mr. Hume) took of the question was, that he wished to be-showo what the state of the means were before he gave his vote, and In thathe (Mr. Hutchinson) concurred. He would put a ease r sup pose the agent of a gentleman was to call upon his employer, and request him to order new carriages and horses, or to purchase an espensiveesteblishment in town or country, the gentleman would naturally say, before I do so, show me that I have means. As Trustees for theireonstituents it was necessary Parliament should know what their resoutccs were, and to what extent the expend!. ture was to be carried. Mr. HCME explained. Mr. CANNING expressed himself much surprised at the con. duct of she Gentlemen who opposed the House going into a Corn. mittee, for it had been the practice not only since the revolution, but indeed ever since Parliaments were instituted, without one single exception, to pursue the course nose adopted by the Govern ment. Never in the moat turbulent times had such a demand been made as that of the Honourable Member for Bristol (Mr. Bright) for ''general statement previous to the voting the estimates. TI, , object of going into a Committee was for the express purpose of giving every explanation that might be required. The lion. Gent. (Mr. Burnt.) had come down with his speech In his pocket, which he was determined to make (a laugh) ; and he (Mr. Canning) was perfectly willing to hear, and then go into the Committee. The Honourable Member for Cork (Mr. Hutchinson) had put an illus tration of the case, by referring to a gentleman and his steward, and horses, and town houses, and country houses; but the cuss did not apply. What was asked was not a matter luxury, but for the defence of his country. If a servant had come to him (Mr. C.) and said, bars and locks were required for the security of his house, he (Mr. C.) would not have called for the steward's accounts to see whether the state of expenditure would have justified the applica tion. He (Mr. Canning) trusted that the Honourable Gentleman would see what would be the effect out of doors, if it was under. stood an opposition had been made to the House going into a Cont. mittee of Supply. He (Mr. Canning) trusted the Honourable Gen tlaman would withdraw his motion, to order to do away any angry feelings, and aßose the House to go into a Committee. Mr. C. PA 1.31 ER expressed his regret that his Majesty's Mini sters had increased the expenses of the country by raising the salary of the Judges, and thought it was not too much ,to 36k for inquiry. Mr. CANNING explained. Mr. HUME said he should be most sorry to produce any such effect as that referred to by the Right Hon. /Secretary (dr. Canning), and therefore he should withdraw his amendment. (Hear, hear.) The original question was then put, and being curried, the House went into a 01171Mittet. Sir GEORGE CLERK said it was his duty to submit to the consideration of the Committee the Navy Estimates, and in doing so he hoped to be enabled to satisfy the Rouse that every attention haul been paid to the principle of economy. The Hum. 111 ember tor Aberdeen (Mr. flume) had referred to the Finance Report of 1017, ' which he had often done before, and he had been as repeatedly told that it had been hoped that no increase would have been necessary. It was necessary to state that from the gradual increase of com merce in South America, the Admintlty had been called upon to supply numerous ships for the protectlonof the British trade In.that quarter, and which was particularly necessary from the jealousy which existed in several of those States. lie (Sir G. Clerk) was surprised to hear from the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) that any reference had been made to the Atnerican navy by that side of the Howe; and he could not but consider that the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) was mistaken in the supposition of such haring taken place. The increase of the navy had been consequent upon the increase of commerce, which was felt by America and France 'Or the same reason. The state of the war between the Greeks and Turks also required numerous vessels for the protection of the trade in that quarter, as did the colonies in the West Indies, where such serious acts of piracy had been committed. The pirates were now driven wholly into the neighbourhood of Cuba; but should the force be withdrawn no doubt they would soon appear again. The coast of Africa also required a considerable force for the suppression of the slave trade. From those circumstances it was found that 29,000 men were not sufficient, and therefore It had been deemed necessary to increase the number of men one thousand. There was also another reason which rendered the augmentation necessary. An application had been male to his Majesty's ' Government to increase the number of ships in India. in consequence of the war that existed with he Birman Empire, not for the protection of British commerce, but to assist the East India Company and for their security. The additional expense was estimated at about 60,0001. and that sum was to be repaid by them, for which purpose. a Bill would be sub- mined to Parliament. He (Sir George Clerk) would now state' the reasons that led to the excess of 151,000/. The firet was the pay and victualling of the additional thousand men. From the circumstance of the advance that had taken place in the pnee of Irish proviskeis, beef and pork were from 18 to 20 per cent. dearer than last year, sad that would occasion an increased expense of 3s. per man, pee month, which would make 100;00eL more than last year. It would be seen that th's was an advance o ver which his Majesty's Government oculd exercise no cunt:owl. There had been four votes in !former years which were this I reduced to two. This arrangement bad been adopted fur the n of simplicity, and in order to obviate some objections which ' been made last yeas by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. home) and dee lion. Member for Abingdon. On account of this mods of arnis► tog the accounts, there appeared to be an men ate under theism' renaaining heads of 320,000 e, while in reality there was a decrease in the aggregate of 30,0001. It was not necessary ettaid the Hon. Baronet) to observe, that under t h e: general bead, of the totablishe l meat all the expenses were reduced to the lowest possibleA So strict lodged was the economy that the expense of sup 30,000 seamen now, did not exceed the charge of 21,000 fit/ellen& ago. There was ooe item to which he would call the attention- of the House—that for ship-building at Bombay. From the line qua lity of the timber employed, and the patient labour bestowed, the ships built as Bombay were found very superior in strength mod durability ; is coneequesce tate% aid been gime to outlaw the bnihlingni them, which war the emu of the item its inseam. There wastuurther apparent increase of eiperise which" he *fold etrplald to. the Muse. The contractors for the works. at Shekonass had represented, that from Serious facilities • accidentally witting, Ltd from the impmve ments o f inachinvyi the; could comp:ets the rotas (if permitted) Hi four years instead of ten, with a great waving . eap?pditose. They es t imated 'that 70(1,000/. 'lnstead of .92t,. Would suffice for the coMpittion of the works, if they were a olretttlaeize the favourable junctdre. This alteration ap peared so beneficial that the proposal was gladly accepted by Go vernment, and in consequence there was an increase of 150.000/. in the vote for carrying on t 'IIA great work. It would have been Injudicious also to limit the vote for Plymouth breakwater, on ac- Count ofof the exposed state in which the works were at present. Much were the -additional expenses of this year's estimate, amount ing to about 180.00QL, if the lam of 69.0007. to be repaid by the East India Company was deducted. If any lion. Member had any question to ask, he (Sirf*. Clerk) would. be happy to answer it, hut o:herwise he would not trouble the House with I minute explanation of the various charges in the estimate. He would merely recsffieulate that the great causes of increase in the votes now submitted tt, the House were, the necessity of maintaining a treater number of seamen, and the expediency of finiehing with deepetch the great works at Sherman. It would have been de sirable to diminish this yore, If Fusible, hut unfinished sea-works were exposed to so many becards, and weaned it all seams so heavy art es.ablishment, that to defer the expense of completing them weird have been a most Machete economy. Mr. HUBIE said that It was certainly itnpossible to allege with out qualifecetion that it was unnecessary to employ 30,000 seamen. No Individual could say so in the presence of those whose office and duty it was to take to give the matter attentive consideration. He would not therefore insist on that particular, but would object to the total amount of the estimate. `Vas it nut surprising that a few , Years back great naval and military establishments wet the natit.n less than that which we *ere now snalutaining in a time of profound peace? The cost of our present establishment was the enormous sum of 23 milliens tie did not deny that-a navy was necessary; but this neceasilt itself was a relative term ; it implied some proportion to the resistance feared. A few years hack, when elinistere were asked to reduce the navy, they replied, " the western hemisphere is in arms—South America wages war by. lend and sea, and in this element we most maintaiaout superiority." This was said when the dispotition of the South Affiericau Styes towards us was imperfectly known. Was it not surprising they that Mar navy . should.be augmented just when three states had en tered into amicable relations with this country, and when the trea ties of commerce with them had been just laid on the table 2 There was soneethlog se unsound and c:ntrailictory in this statement that he hoped it would have no weight with the House. Bet the Hon. Gentlemen opposite would perhaps ay that our traders required Veitlonel assistance and protection in the Mediterranean ; but he (Mr. flume) never heard of any resistance or o ff ence o ff ered to our merchant shipping in the 51editerrelean, except when engaged in contraband or prohibited trade —as, for instance, when carrying previsions to the Turks. They might also be told that an aug mentation of our navy was necessary to the protection of our re venue at home ; but he (51r. Hume) could not see what profit ac crued to the country from the system of spending in the preventive service more than the amount of duties collected. It would 'sae better economy and a nobler principle to abolish those duties alto ther. There was another item to which he would turn the anen t on of the House ; he meant the coast of Africa. We kept a navy there for the sake of catching some minor offenders, while the French, Spanish, and PortugueQe did as they pleased; and for every elate who was intercepted (for he :Auld not say they were saved) the life of sit Erelishman was forfeited. So great was this sacrifice of life, that he thought it would be an act of humanity to with draw tilt establishment altogether. Nor was the increase of the navy necessary to maintain the honour of theßritish flag, which would be respecter,, although never seen but at the mast-head of frigates. lVhatever reasons were now alleged for the increase of our naval establishment might also allow its iedeftnite augmentation. In the year 1792 we had more ships in service than at present, with 16.000 seamen; yet the estimate of that year was only two millions, while now we were called on for two millions in time of profound peace. In the year 1817 the half-pay and pensions was 1.146.0001. It was now increased to 1,341,0001. The promotions now were more numerous than they were during the war, and all disposed of by parliamentary influence. The number of our naval officers at present were sufficient for a thousand ships. We maintained more Officers than our snips required, slid more shins than our finances could ever afford to man. The number of officers on half-pay too teas icone on continually increasing, and is greater row by 1.000 than it was at the end of the wear. In like manner the Pension List has increased. Ire 1817 it amounted to 85,0001., and now it was increased to 164,0001. He did not mean to deny that many merito rious persons were supported by this fund, but he thought that Its continued Increase was a proof of lavish expenditure, and that wastefulness he was convinced would not be checked until the House took from the Admiralty the power of promotion. Neither could he understand why so much money was laid out in ship building. Since the establishment of peace no less a sum than 23,000,0n0L had been expended in this way. They were told at the same time that the navy was never in a better condition. If this was true, why, when we had already 509 shims of the line, were we ' employed in building more ? It seemed as if they were intended to at least expected to rot; but 5611 another consideration awaited us, which was the probable alterationiin the mode of naval warfare; steam vessels might perhaps be made use of, and in many respects prove superior to our heavy ships. He heard this instance of the improvidence of Ministers regretted by many 'Ole judges. Icith respect to the works at Sheerness, he had heard it said that those works would never have been commenced if the utility of steam vessels, in taking ships up and down the river had been known at that time. If this were true, it was useless now to prosecute those works. As to the charge for hired vessels for the service of the post-office, he thought it ought to be transferred to that establishment. %Vith I respect to the sum of 60,0001. wh!ch was to be repaid by the East India Company, it appeared to him inevitable that the English nation must finally become charged with the debts of that Coin nany, so that this mode of exhibiting accounts was a mere delusion. It was not his intention to disparage thenavy in the eyes of the public, but it was hisopinion that we did not requirean augmentedestablish ment. He objected also to building ships which we could never man, and to the Itemise of that pension list, which had been so properly denominated the dead weight. He objected to the sale of commis sions, and to the admission of young and healthy men into the retired list. The promotions in our navy in the year 1026 were equal to all the officers employed fn the American navy. Many Hem Gentleman would wish this system to be continued ; but when we had 5,600 officers, the promotions, lie thought, might he judiciously suspended. Sir G. CLERK would not complain of the manner in which the Hon. Gentleman had expressed his sentiments. The lion. Gentle man had directed his observations principally to the half-pay, which, he said, hen increased, but it the lion. Gentleman would confine his attention strictly to the half-pay, lie would find that it had diminished ; but that general heed in the accouet had at the tame time been increased by civil pensions and compensations given to reduced clerks at the termination or the war. Many of these persons hadgrown old in service.and it was impossible to neglect their Again, another cause of the increased charge was the deficiency of funds for the widows' pension list. During the war this list had been met; in a great measure by contributions of the officere, but now when these sources were dried up, and the funds exhausted, the public was obliged to sustain the charge. Greenwich Hospital also, had formerly large sums accumulated from unchained prize. money, but this stock being ow reduced, the public are obliged to pay the cut-pensioners; these two items together amount to 200,0001. The Hon. Baronet denied any unfairness in promotion of the rules, of which be said were the Paine now as they were formerly. It was a great oversight, he said, to forget that the gun said to be expended in ship-building also included the annual repairs and fitting out. As to the works at Sheerness, the success already met withjustified the line of conduct pursued, and with respect to any change that might take place in the mode of naval warfare, he as sured the Hon. Gentleman that this nation would keep pace with the rat of the world in the progress of invention. The following resolutions were then put and agreed to, viz, that the aunt of 955,500/. be voted for the wages of 30,000 seamen. includ. log 9,000 marines, for 13 lunar months. For victualling 682,00/. Mr. HU3IE asked why the contract for meatier)* was higher now than last year, though markets were cheaper. Sir U. CLERK answered, that in October last, when the con tracts were made, the price of Irish provisions was 16 per cent. higher than thelpreceding year. Yoe the Admiralty-office, salaries, wed contingencies, 54.476/. ss. Id. ; Navy pay-office ditto, 29.803/. le. fid. ; Navy-office ditto, 57,780/. 15e.; Victualling_ office ditto, 34,257/. Ins.; his Majesty's yards at home, 167,e571. ' • Wages to Artificers, 560,0001.; charge for Timber, &c., 837.91:71. Sir J. COCKERELLe, we believe, asked, whether the ships were not all rotten and unfit for service. Sir G. CLERK replied that those reports were utterly false, and that there was not a sounder navy in the world than ours. Mr. HUME read some documents respecting the ship Sap pho, staring that she had been sent home condemned, and when examined at home was found to be unsound. Sir G. CLERK said that the Sappho had encountered a severe gale, which might occasion her being sent home. She was also 20 years old, so that she was possibly worn out. Mr. HUME thought that so many ships could be built only in contemplation of dry rot. Sir If. COLBURN said that in the last war it was found that ships run up in a hurry were coMparatively worthless. Many ships also had been built in merchants' yards, and with mixed timber, which rendered them more liable to rot. It was to prevent those har.arcts wswere building now, when we were sure of escaping them. The last Resolution was agreed to. Charge for Pilotage, Salvage, Bounty on Slaves, Re.. 40,0001. Mr. II UhlE observed that the bounties on slaves had nothing to do with navy estimates. Sir G. CLERK said that this was head-money. ordered by Act of Parliament, to be paid to the captors by the Treasurer of the Navy. 1 , Foe Foreign ards . . - £53,298 17 7 . For Victualling Yards - . - 73.484 9 0 Medical Establishment - - 58.743 8 11 Royal Naval College - . • 8,247 7 3 Wages ID Officers and to Vessels io ordinary - 104,919 7 3 Victuals to Officer', kc. • - 61,629 15 0 Mired Packets - . - 37,250 0 0 Ships building at Bombay - - 20,000 0 0 Ilalf.psy to Flag.olficers - 896,000 0 0 Mr. HUAI E inquired what was the amount of fees received from officers obtaining leave of absence. Sir I. COFFIN said that it was very trifling, each officer paid 10.. &L on obtaining leave, and the total did not earned 2661. per year. Mr. HUME thought a simple entry in the kooks alight answer the purpose as well as a fee ; there were ail akseval tifsGerei I flaTf-pay who had nothing but their h whom even a i,gulrita was greonseiturnie. "Haag* nct st y affording - • errs leave or absence, alien there were NO many officers unmet., ployed. Clist.Of all ;be Ad.nitas oa the list, there were not more than eight/employed.; out of 821 Captain, ,not more than 71 were now empinyed ; out pf iidttCommanders oat more than 61 were 'Employed; and the kame disproportion ran through te:iubordinate ranks he. thertfilte, win of opinion, that leave should be given to thrvie of:leer* without throwing any obstacles in their way. Mr. CA LCRAFT s said that any alteration in the mode of re ceiving half.thy would be considered an •• ex post facto" arrange them, and cor.sermently objectionable. Sir 0. "COCKBURN said. that if leave of absence was given great inconvenience would follow, for jf those officers were absent on leave in foreign et/Junin, they could not be available in case they might be wanted • besides, those of fi cers accepted their com missions subject to inc4nvententles arising out of the regulations yf the navy: and recidied theirlhalf-pay as a retaining; fee. Mr. 1if.31F.: mid, that officers in the army received half-pay as a retaining fee, as well as officers in the navy, and therefore went not entitled to exemptions which the former were not allowed. Sir 0. COCKBURN replied, that officers in the army bought their commitudons :he also admitted that their half-pay was granted them as a reward fokTheir serums. The Accounts of (PM Superannuattaits, Pensions, and AllowAnewt granted to officers in the military line of the naval rieryice, thee , widows and relatives, amounting to 134,0311. la. lid. was theu . moved, and agreed to. Also, of the Bounty to Chapfr:ins, I.fiool. Allowance to Per Widows and Orphans on the Compassionate List, 1.0001. ; foe making good the deficiency in the funds of the Widows' Charity., 90.0001.; for making good the deficiency in the funds for defray. ing the charge 00ut.peafieners of Greenwich Hospital, amont. ing to 260,000/. ; also, of the bupetannuationa, Pensions, *us. granted to Conimissioners, Secretaries, Clerks &c. formerly am. ployed in the civil departments of the navy, amounting to 164,067 E . 84. 10d. were severally moved and agreed to. • On the motion that the amount or the charges on the works 4 . Woolwich and 1-.;heerness be agreed to, 31r.-H LIME said, that the expenses width were incurred by works at Sheerness were a useless waste of money, but ('.enflames' thought that having begun they were obliged to proceed; but he. , thought-that was not a time to stand upon punctilio, and that Meg had better save money to the country by not proceeding any further with those works. It was agreed that by prosecuting the Cale... dentin Canal much loss had b een incurred, which' might hake been prevented had any one succeeded in preventing that canal frost being perfected. Sir B. MARTIN said, that If it was thought necessary to keep a large fleet in the North Sea, the works at Sheerness would Int the utmost importance, as they would be convenient fbr rattail; those ships. Mr. CHOKER said that the dock-Yard at Sheerness had gone to decay ; and the question was, whether they would proceed i n the repairs of that yard, or by out ten millions of money in making a new one at Northfleet. In 1816 the House bad decided that it was better to lay out two millions in repairing the old one than the suns he had stated, or somewhere near it, upon a new one. The work', would be complete in three years and a half, and, tiniest' It was continued, the sea wo u ld b's-a k in and destroy it altogether. Mr. HUME said it was a badly digested plan, and the estimate for carrying it into execution had gradually increased from 1022 up to the present time. lie much feared, if they lived ten years. longer, they would still find it unfinished, and, perhaps, at the end of that time, called upon for anJther million to carry It en. They had begun to build without a foundation—.they, both upon. sand, and thug melted the gold of the nation. He should move tg. reduction of 140,0001.. in that vote. • Mr. CALCRAFT said that one point was pasted over which appeared to him to be more calculated to excite suspicion than anit: other. It was stated that the contractor had reduced Ilia demand"' 141. per cent. upon tee original contract, making a difierenee us, the amount of 180.001. lie wished to ask how it was possible that he could have made such a reduction, if the original contract had.: been made with a due regard to economy ? Sir G. CLERK said that the reduction was frOtn an estimate antl, not from a contract. The reduction was made upon the condition.. that the rapidity of the contractor might not be checked perhaws., for ten years, during which he would - lie out of the Interest of ht money, as he had got most of Ills materials by him. The original... estimate was for 921,M91. The vote of 730,000/. was not, as the, Hon. Member supposed, for the whole of the works, but for a balm. and quay docks, and they had been completed for that sum by Mr. Rennie. It was true that part of the collie-dam had been blowk up by an inundation of the sea, but it by no means affected the, solidity of the whole—the estimate of the damage done not exceed-. • ing 10,000/. Mr. 111131 R thought the better way would be to appoint s Committee to see if the sum called for was absolutely requudte. If something of the kind were not done he feared the d oc k s Would never be completed. . . Sir B. MARTIN said the contractor was under a penalty of 230,0001. to finkh it within the specified time. After a few words from Col. DAVIES, Sir C. CLEnx, and Sir R.:WILSON, the vote was agreed to. The sum of 275,0001. was then agteet I to, for the purpose of provisioning the troops and garrisons on foreign stations. The sum of 200,0001. was also agreed to for the transporn service. The House then resumed, and the Report was crdere.i to be re., ceived on Monday nest. SMALL NOTE BILL. Upon the reading of the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Small Note Bah The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, and laid that before he moved the second reading of the Bill for the wi:h• draws! of small notes from the circulation of the country, he, wished to state to the House that it was his intention to introduce an amendment to one of the provision!' of the Bill. An Hon., Member opposite to him (Mr. H. Gurney) had proposed the other night a measure similar to that to which he now alluded, but that it was calculated to go much farther than it seemed to him (the, Chancellor of the Ezzhequer) desirable to go. That Hon. '!em ber thought it advisable, after the country bank small no:es Antall have been withdrawn from circulation, that t permanent issue of small notes of the Bank of England should be permitted.' To this, on the part of his Majesty's Ministers, there would be the, most decided objection—in the first place, because it would be • grossly unjust towards the country banks, and in the second phica.,;: because it would be totally inconsistent with the principles upmiL which the measure before the House was founded. The limiter proposition which it was his intention to submit would however,,,, he was fully persuaded, so far front proving prejudicial, prom* • the effectual execution of the measure. Instead of prohibiting the issue of Bank of England small notes to such notes as were nrsde, prior to the sth of February, he should propose that the B an k be allowed to issue them until the 10th of next October. ( Hear, hear.V His object in making this alteration was that the country bankt might be afforded some facility in preparing against the Bill, by, gradually withdrawing their notes from circulation. He was 'bar more inclined to the alteration, as it did not at all affect the prin ciple of the Bill, for it was not inttmtled to „ire their notes anis longer time for circulation than the three years already stated in the Bill. (Bear, hear.) Mr. ELLICE said that he had voted for the measure upon pe: former reading, although not possessing the greatest confidence as ets the possibility of carrying it into effect. lie also came down time very night to support it, when to his utter amasement the Right Hon. Gentleman makes a proposition to the House which le. nothing short of a complete departure from the very principles trpon which the 11111 is founded. (Hear, hear, hear.) %%There the an. annual exhibitions for forgery to be still exhibited at Tylen or Newgate ? (Hear, hear.) Upon what principle wis this alter. idiots to be made? hear.) He scarcely believed his rats when he heard the proposition. (Cheers.) Ile thought this so-II of paper had been permitted long enough, and if it were not for the urgent necessity of the case the Bank Directors ought to be are reigned for re-issuing their one and two pound notes, as they haiX recently dune. (Hear, bear.) These notes were sent into the c o n i u g n h t t ry rel f i o the t. ip t u b r e poa el e pe o c l ted be t i o ng g res o u t it in ft t o o n ci l r e eti o I pa atf l o t n ry . a flh m ' e.j et , ee u ve po could be no justification for so glaring a departure from principle, and even though he stood alone he would divide the House upote the Bill. (Cheering.) Mr. BRIGHT asked if after what had been just communicated to the House, he was not justified in voting as he had done against the Bill ? (Hear, hear.) Was he justified or not in believing thee his Majesty's Ministers did not understand the question? hear.) For his own part, he firmly believed that it watt impose sible to carry it into effect in the way proposed. Ile believed thw ' Dill to be one of most iniquitous tendency, and he was dissatis tied with his Majesty's Ministers for their inactivity and saint*. ness towards the commercial distresses of the country. Ile might perhaps be told that he had brought down to the House a fine speech in his pocket (a laugh), but he would, notwithstanding', still freely deliver his opinion as to the evil tendency of thee measure. He had been told that the Bank had been goaded ti* Government to buy up a large quantity of Exchequer bills. Was that acting on principle? It might be, perhaps, beneficial to this city, but it was not beneficial to other parts of the country. In hie opinion, nothing could save the country but an immediate issue of Exchequer bills. Nothing else could save the regular merchant, whose accumulated goods could not be disposed of, than whom n• class of persons could be so Auch distressed, unless, indeed, the small tradesman, where banks had failed, and where banks weak! hereafter fail, in consequence of the measure upon which they were then in deliberation. In order to relieve these, it was the botinded duty of Government to provide an increase of circulation. (Hear. hear, hear.) He trusted that the House, aware as it noir was, of the inexperience of the Illinistry in these matters. would proceed no fkrther until a Committee of Inquiry vim form ed to gain the requisite information. (Hear, hear.) They seeetwit not to profit by the experience of 1793, when the Government rks. lieved the distresses of the country ander circumstances pertiptly analogous. Upon the representation of the merchant s , M r . ride issued a quantity of Exchequer bills, which had the Manisa* effect of quieting the alarm and eventually relieving the distress. and with an actual profit to the Treasury. Why then, he would ask, were unknown exceriments to be tried, when they had the eel patience of the wisdom of their ancestors to resort. to, whitti he rather feared, however, that there was too great a dispositionMl laugh at? Under these circumetances, being himself neitlterli speculator nor a theorist, he called upon the country to take in she wisdom of Mr. Pin, the effects of which had been already perienced. Mr. HUSRISSON said that a more inconsistent speech these that which had jest bees delivered by the lion. Member who bad resumed his seat, he never recollected hearing 10 that House. tit first attacked his Majesty's Ministers for being Sophie Ind inactive while she country was labouring under the greatest distreee. aria Men when tbry came forward with a rums= td remedy thin dist i l