The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1804-06-16 00:00:00

ration and envy of the world. Is went to bring few- I ward a strung measure, which was now required at ;he hands ot the present administration. To the bill brought forward last session by the late Mi nisters, he gave a decided preference ; because the provisions of it were far less odious than those of the present, which went to throw down the whole fabric of the constitution. He said that, in the year 1784, a strong measure had been introduced, which was then violently opposed; he meant the India Bill : a measure, of which. if the principle had been adopted, he believed it would be much better for the interests of India. But it was said to be a strong measure; and that it woula overthrow the Administration. But it was notliiiig like the pre sent measure, on which the question was, whether the constitnnon of the country should stand or tall ? It was a strong measure, only futile in its opera tion, compared to this. As to the Army of Re serve, that was but a temporary measure, which had been called for in the emergen cy ef the moment : anti, therefore, the defects it might have were excusable : but this was a perpe tual measure ; it tended to subvert the Constitution of the country, and should impose a tax of three minims on the landed interest. It must operate as a drain upon parishes, by imposing fines upon them. Now, as in stae.ding at raiee some Gentlemen might contend that they were necessary in the country. Ile would desire them to look to the situation of France, and say, whet her t ie standing armies there were not the cause of the slavery under which the people groan ed ? Let them, then, look to Great Britain, and • they must find, that the very reverse was the cause of that freedom which we enjoyed. Our ancestors serer jealous of standing armies ; they always op posed them, and the country continued five. But now, a Minister, fond of a little military display, and perhaps vain of military glory, was about to eteate a military power in the country, which ought never to be suffered in the hands of any man. It was a remarkable circumstance that this was the first measure of the Right Hon. Gentleman, from whom a great deal ayes expelled Bet it was necessary to teal that Right Hon. Gentleman, that tie House looked for something very different. They looked for the p rformance of that promise, which he had held out to Ireland ; and the inability to perform which, at one time, was the alleged cause of his re tir-ment from office. His first objeill now, therefore, aught to be to do away the necessity of keeping a rge military force in Ireland ; to convert to more useful purposes the 25,000 men who were now sta tioned as sentinels over the people of Ireland. Let him conciliate and reclaim the aff..ftions of those people, and then there would be nn occasion for a great army to keep them in subjection. The affec tions ot a people were the surtst means to support and strengthen a Government, and not a standing army. He thought it necessary to mention to the House, that there would be a considerable difficulty in filling up the standing army, from the limited force, by the mode in which the men belonging to that force were enlisted. Ile would mention one circumstance which came to his own knowledge. In the Tower Hamlets Militia, there were hardly ten men who served personally. They were almost all substitutes, who had engaged to serve for five years, cr during the war. hey had already served five years; but as the war was not over, they could not obtain their discharge. 'they applied for it, and it would rot be granted. They considered them selves as serving, not for Ira Mejesty, but as sub etitutes for the parochial inhabitants: and they thought themselves entitled either to their discharge s or to a renewal of the hotioty. Several constituents of his (being freemen of Coventry), who were pri vates in that regiment,. had applied lately for their discharge, with a view of getting into -a mare ex tended s:: vice ; and if that could not be obtained, they required a renewal of the bounties. The first :seen who made the application was taken up, tried by a court martial, and sentenced to reeves eOO lashes. By his intercession, however, and that of some of his friends, the man's punishment was re mitted, by taking away 295 from the s(tO lashes. He mentioned this circumstance, to sbew how diffi cult it was to get men even for the Regular Army. He con luded with giving his decided opposition to the Bill. Mr. DENNIS BROWNE said, he could not listen to an assertion made by the Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, without rising to give it a positive denial He denied that there were 23,000 troops in Ireland placed as sentinels over the people there: nor were the affections of the people alienated from the Government. He knew the very con trary to be the fact. Fle had lived in Ireland from his infancy; he was acquainted with the sentiments of the people; and, whatever disaffec tion might at one time have prevailed among them, he could now say that their disposition was totally changed. He thou ht it unneees,ery at that time to trouble the House with ying his reasons for what he said ; but the H ouse might depend on it the fait was so. He would far- ' ther assert, that if the French were to safe& a land ing in Ireland, they would find themselves in an enemy's country, whatever part of it they came to. They would not find the minds of any one of the people favourable to their views. The insurrection • which took place on the '23tl of July, did not put him out of conceit with this opinion. He was cer rein that the extreme parts of Ireland had no more to do with that rebellion than they had to do with the rebellion of Colonel Despard. The Honse then proceeded to divide upon the question, when there appeared--Ayes, 63; Noes, VA Majority against the motion, fi. Strangers were, for some time after this, ezcluded from the Gallery ; and the House continued debat ing (as we understood) on an objeation which Mr. , Pitt made to the votes of all those members who had not been in the House, when the question was put fiom the chair; but who came in before the divi sion took place. Among these were Mr. Fox, Mr. Grey, and several others, who had been dining up stiles. It was at last decided that these votes were good ones. A motion was then made (we understood by Mr. Gave), that the amendments be read a second time onthis day three nu,nths. And when the Gallery was opened for the re-admission of strangers, we hound Sir JOHN WRIOTTESLEY, speaking ha sup- port of the Bill. He contended. that it hart in it every advantage that couie be desired at Usia ute- Mil. e went. Sore Cettlemee said, it would tot recruit thb regular army ; in answer to them, he would :der to the time, when the English militia had vo lunteered their services for Ireland—and when sever al regiments went to Holland. These two remarkable events must convince any man, that we could al ways get men to enter intq the regular army, from cur limited force, whenever it should h: necessary. A Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Windham) bad ob served, that men would not enter into the regiments of the line, to which their battalions were attached, because they might dislike some of the Officers. So far was he from entertaining such an opinion, that he was convinced men would enter from the very contrary motive. From the experience he had in military affairs, he knew that suhifers were in the habit rather of entertaining a partiality, than a dis like, for Officers; and if they had a dislike, he knew the forgiving temper of a soldier to be stich, that even a sentiment of dislike would not prevent him from entering a regiment. He wished to im press upon the House one quality which belonged to this Bill ; it was that of its tending to ameliorate our defensive force. Officers of expel tense were to com mand the force to be raised by this Bill, and that would add considerably to the strength of our home defence, and enable the Government to employ the regular force of the country on the Continent, when ever an opportunity should offer for co-operating Kish any of the powers of Europe against France. The plan of recruiting laid down in this Bill was certainly the best mode that could •be adopted for recruiting the army. All other modes appeared to hi:n to be nhje9ionable in time of war. It had, be another material advantage; and that was, the doing away the ballots; so far from being a bur-- then, Le considered it an•aUeviation of hunhens, on the landed interest. it timeshare met with his cor dial approbation, , „ . There wat: now a lotidgerf au polies, fossilise." - • Mr. 110BlIdU 'sett it - w . ls a very material object to encrease tha regular. force of the country ; and it appeared to Issialusarielsof all sides to do so, to tile greatest possible extent. The necessity of it was fully admitted , and the question was, which was :he best mode of promoting that objeft ? If the regular army could be encreased at all by this Bill, it must be by a very slow progress, by that kind of double distillation which a Right I Ion: Gent. had mentioned. When it was contended that some strong measure was necessary, a measure should have been adopted adequate to the force of that necessity. If the danger was great, and the ne cessity strong, he thought sonic other measure would have been resorted to besides the present Bill, which, he was sure. would fail completely in accom pli4Ung the objea for which it was intended. By one clause of this Bill, the parish officer was authorised to give only three-fourths of the sum allowed as the ordinary bounties for noruiting. But the Com manding Offteer had the power of giving the whole of the sum. This regulation would at once put an end to recruiting in the manner proposed. Men would not enlist with parish officers, who could give' but 151. when they could get 201. from the Commanding Officer. Then the parishes must pay this fine of 201. if they could not get the men. They certainly would never be ab'e to get them on such terms, for men would always consult their own interest, and wait for the largest bounty. Another objeaion he bail to this Bill, was the double bounty men would reccite, if they entered into the Line ; no man would enter into the Regular army, without first passing through this Army of Reserve, he- CAMe of the double bounty he should receive. ft was nor, therefore, to be expeEted that men. could he peocured for the Regular .army, except by a very low process ; and the measure could produce no benefit. But it would be highly in:eitious to the landed interest, upon which the fines laid on parishes must ultimately fall. (d bed eirk,for 14e ticstion). Mr. PITT said, that without precluding himself from the opportunity of delivering his Loath:nem' some other day upon this Bill ; he hoped he might now be permitted to say a few words, ha order to sat the 1.-lon. Gentleman who jest sat slows right upon one topic which he had advanced. He bad rested one of his ohjeCtions to this Bill on a suppo sition, that if parish officers should not he able to find men for a given sum, the recruiting officers would b.. enab4d - to give a Luger sum. .And from this he drew a conclusion, that parochial recruiting would he rendered completely ineffeetual. If the Honourable Gentleman would take the tioluble to look in page 13 of the Bill, he would there 'find, that so far from its containing such a regula tion, the recruiting officer could only give such r^ proportion of the 201. fine as was fixed as the stated bounty by His Majesty's regulation.— This very amendment had been made in the Bill on' the preceding day : and the Hon. Gentleman would, on the present day, have heard it read, were it not for the accidental vote which recently took pl.tce, and which threw a temporary hitt' tuptiod in the way of the progress of the Bill. Let the lion. Gentleman now turn to the clause in the Bill, ind ite if he were sight in his statement. Sir ROBERT ill ATON said, he defied any Gentleman to show one tenable argument against die second reading of the amendments, or any tea son why they should be put off for three months, die eirea of which would certainly be the loss of the Ell. I he amendments, in fast, which were now objected to, made the Bill better than it was before. It was said this Bill would operate a: a heat-, charge on the landed interest. He would say, for himself; that his property chiefly consisted in land; that he had applied his mind to the stibjed of the landed in terest ; and he now wished to know what plan of national defence could be devised which must not impose a burden on the landed interest ? The plan would be no more a burden than any other ; but it would confer a great benefit on the country ; it would be conferring a boon on the country by freeing it from' the hardship occasioned by ballots. He wished Gentlemen to see what a ballot Was. It was neither more net less than an infringement qn the liberty of the subjeact ; and he wished to ask those Gentle men, wto had talked so often and so much about libertk ia' wbetlwr there was liberty, justiceor equality, ha fo a poor man tp.serve as a soldier, when tee ridinain,. by a son of money which he did nut make,. capidstsflnapt. himself *or* service by procur ing a substitute, or paying a fine ? As to the objec tion against recruits being raised by parochial officers, he must sae that no men appeared to him latter calculated to perfartar such a shay tban • they; because they knew hatter than mesh peo ple could do, the charades s nt the p, ogle In their parishes. This objettion, as well as others that had been made to the Bill, were such as had never before been heard of. On the preceding day it had been objeaed to one of the elauses of the Bill, that military officers were to be sent down to assist at the meeting of the Deputy Lieutenants: So far from this being an objeaion , able proceeding, he must say, that having often titled as a Deputy Lieutenant, he, and others who ailed with tom, were always happy to have along with them a military officer, from whom they could receive information. He would venture to assert, that no one plan had yet been offered that would fall so lightly, or be so little objeaioneble as the prier:tit. Mr. BURROUGHS rose amidst a loud call for the question. He said, he was ready to admit, that this measitre could not, in a short time, snake any considerable addition to the Regular Forte of the country ; but it was not the (skied of the Bill to do so immediately. Its °lira was to raise second bat talions, which were to be attached to battalions of the line, into which the men belonging to them ' might be induced to enter. It could not now be the objet of Government to increase all of a sudden the regular disposable force of the country. There was no necessity to do so • for, in the present .de graded state of Europe , th ere was no hope that any of the continental powers would co-operate with us. in a continental war against France; therefore there. was no necessity speedily to increase our regular force. The object now was, to raise a force that might add to our standing army whenever oc casion should require. so to do. Now he wished to direct the attention of the..lleuse to onegreat benefit arising out of this Bill ; and that Was the - doingaway the ballots , which exposed the poor to greet hardships. It was one of the severest lots to which the poor 1,11 been subject. With re gard to the objeaions made agaiust standing armies, be believed a. reference to the hi :tory of this coun try would chew that these objeflions were, in a great degree unfounded. It would ' be found out e that England had,often been exposed to greet danger from the want of standing armies. And if the constitutional jealousy of English Men agairk stand ing armies had not been carried too far, the country might now have a complete tegular army, fit for every purpose of offensive or de fensive operations. Considering the enemy we had to contend with, it was necessary we 'should have a regular permanent force in the country:— That enemy would watch his opportunity, and take his own time to attack us ; and he would most as suredly avail himself of the first moment be found mil disbanding our army, or diminishing our force. If a great regular force then was necessary, the conti tutional objettion against it must fill to the ground. Bat that obj ection was done away, when it was considered that Perliamei had an unusual con trout over the Executive Gee ernment, and bad the power of refusing to pas. the Mutiny Bill, without which the army could not exist.-- Such an ol,;eCtion, therefore, when urged against the Present he considered as nothing better that an hale bugbear. it had also been objetted, that parish officers would be converted into crimps by this Bill.; and it was said that they could not obtain men with net the assistance of crimps. 11,. %weld answer, that parish officers, who knew the habits of the. people in their perishes, would stand a better chance of ptoctuing men than even recruiting officers. against whom the people always entertained a Jealousy. They were surely the most eligible persons to be resorted to, 'Aimless they abused dick power, and if they did, the courts of justice were open to the injered , parties. He would iok whether it was possible, by'simple recruiting, to get a large force in a abort .tune ? And if it was. be would ask, why was it necessary to pass the Army of Reserve Aft last year ? Let the present experi ment be tried as a Ins objeaionable mode; end if it failed, the ordinary bitsiness of recruiting still continued cpcnoas it had done before. By the present plan, great bounties were to be done away, and ' more men were likely to be peoeured. No assertion could be more unjust than that this Bill would ope rate as a trap to get men into the.line. kle was con fident so such attempt would be mice. With respea to the hardships said to be imposed on Parish Offi cers, he had to observe,' that when every thing dear and valuable in the country was to be protea ed, it could not be unreasonable to give to Parish Officers the additional duty of contributing towards the means of national defence (here there was a cry of " question," and the lion. Member was inter rupted by the eau:Aims- of several other Members). sir. Burroughs concluded with giving it as his opi !lien, that the plan contained in the present Bill was the best mettle that could be adopted le increasing the regular force of the country hereafter. Mr. C A ItTW RIGHT. said, he was in fivour of the Bill, because it. would -remove burdens from the lower order of 'the people. Ile wished well to the Right Honourable Gentleman who brought it in (a lead blaze). However he might wish that 2)1 the great talents of some Gentlemen opposite to him were brought into co-operation with the Right Hon. Gentleman (a cry of Ater. &dr !), yet he could not believe there was not much done for the country when the Right Hon. Gcntkman came into his pre.ent ftuation. lie conceived it to be a great acqttisition to the country. Ile could no; for get what that great man had done to save the :rate in the most difficult of times, and from the ni..st dangerous of enemies ; an tittered enemy, determin ed upon the overthrow of the constitution. The country could not forget those great services, nor ever could repay them. I - le must therefore rejoice to see him again in the same high station, at this arduous moment ; and from the superintendance of his tran scendent abilities he expected benefit of the most important kind. He believed the Right Hon. Gen tleman had the country with him. He was sure be was on his side (a kagri hoggh ). Sir WILLIAM GEARY contended that the Bill was unconstitutional, in seducing the Militia and augmenting the Regular Army, at the same time, so as to destroy their former proportion to each other. The Militia are to be ?Muted by 20.000 men ; and the Regulars angmented by 70,000, by the proposed operation of this Bill. It was impossible to look at the possible consequences of this without apprehension. The I louse was hound to be jealous oa this subjeft and to prevent the a 2. preach to such a state of things as tags ia which the I louse would no longer hive t 4 counterad the evil. This force would wholy be in the power of the executive C:overntnelit, hei , g cereal in an unconstitutional manner, contrar to the principle on which the Militia is Of& cere a. jestion to this measure was the greater, bernise it was not necessary. If the danger and extre mity of the limes called for it., all c on r,l„ .l. tions must, give way to that necessity, But it was not so. He admitted the French to be powerful in an unexampled degree.- But would any man now say we were not prepared for al th e i r exertions ?" Have not we been called upon t, m a k e preparations proportioned to the danger, old has the nation been backward to do so? 13ut if we were in a situation to repel every attempt of th e enemy (and he believed that would not Ise'aitnied), there was no excuse for the sacrifice of a grew cos. stitutional p: inciple. This WAS not the tine fry such sacrifice. No necessity could be uisee far a 'ineasine so replete with danger. Lord DUNI.° said, be ueed not state w a; the sense of the House when this Bill was fiat brought in. He need not state that the majo r i ty, which voted for it, had increased on its dbmutit ment. In the Comniittee, no division had takes place on anyone clause ; a sufficient proof that the Creademen who opposed it had nut gained any ma vens to their - opinton. The sense of the House, therefore, be anust contend, remained the sane .As to the unexpected division of that night. Le would not give it a name in that place. if he .A.:se ih sortie other place, and had remained in the. jteN fission to which he forrnetly belonged (tbat If. n o . rider). be would c.tll it sharp pradlising (a lregi)- he repeated sharp pructisn.... The lion. Gerd:. man opposite to him (Mr. Grey), triumphing in de small aserrity of his friends. moves the second reading nt :he amendments cretins day three trontbs. thus plainly calling for tl;e dismissal of the NI. which the House had supported through so ntar.y , stages, although he had not prefaced his motion by any ona_argnment on the merits of the Bill. The condua of' the other Gentlemen, on the ether aide. was the same. 'they offer no arguments. for hig the Bill, but glamorously call otzt fur the ques tion. He was addressing himself to mess who are enemies to, the Bill (a lase). kit inessultat mar:, If them were honourable ; and he would ask them, wh... ther this was a mode to oppose the Bill? nth was ra altered question (a teragtl). The Bill ought to stakt or fall on its merits ; not be thrown out in the Twi ner now attempted. (Here, end at tart onott .f ten fence, was es loud cry o/" 9serfien, 9nertion!") Mr. HsNRY LASCELLES said, lie would ap. peal to the feelings of the House, whether the m. de. of gaining the majority on the last question was honourable? It was not the praeliee of the threw to divide in that unexpefled manlier. Mr. GREY said, he rose to speak to order. The question seas, that the amendments en this Rill b. read a second time or. this day truce months. Tilt IF , nourable Gentleman could nor, upon that ques tion, give the history (if a true tine) of a &wife aivision in the Idolise. The SPEAKER said, the Hon. Member rnizEt airert to a former divisiGn, cuing it as an :asp went fm hit pr sent rote. Mr. HENRY LAScEy,t,Es then repeat e d so he had said respetting the ;inner ttortslion, he had done with that soiled. As ta the quints:. . before the Hottsc—,—, :Mr. JEKYLL vow to order. He said, nralcssil'.. House meant to say, the Speaker was unworesy of his stati n —unless all regard to order was laid aside, the .1 lou.c could not peamit the 1-luls. Gentleman In psuceed. Mr. Piz r said, he rose to speak to order. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had chosen his time to interrupt his Hon. Friend, with peculiar felicity and sagacity. He had declared he had done with the s ibjett, before the Honourable and I earrai Gentle can rose; while he was on that subject, be is allows d by the Learned Gentleman to proceed ; but wizen he says, as to the question bcfore the lba:se, n die Learned Member thinks it time to get up to sp.itk to order (a loud &sigh). And it was to las ofr : e. veil, that his Hou. Friend had the aandica of she Speaker for the use he proposed to make of the lor. tiler division. Mr. FULLER said, he never would be tool of a pArty, so much as to speAk against time. Therefore, be added, let us come to the qtteatilo. yuritim was Irni me.n! r;ilerilly relied pr.) Mfr. RYDF.R said, he could never consent to go to a division, without adverting to die extraordinary manner is which the question on which the Hor was to divide, was introduced. • He could not make an appeal, in this case, to the Chair; but he might and would appeal to the experience of the (Ado. Member in the I louse, and call upon him to dci late. whether Asunder attempt was ever made ? whethrt it was nut contrary to all rule, such as is understocd ansi prailliseil for the convenience of the /Lase: — The House was taken by surprise. air WILLIAM GEA RY said, this was itnpar liamentary largitage. and he could not permit tae I-lon. Gentleman to proceed with it. Mr. RYDER said, he could not consent that the question sb,.uld go to &division without iliewing why the Bill ought not to be lost; and it was his ..1 to prove that ate sense of the House had not b.,. against it. On al sides it was allowed u. it tl:•r. was a necessity for increasing the Regular Arri..: and the only point was, as to that, whether this boi provided the best means. He maintained it die. by first inviting the recruits into a limited murk.. But it had been said, that the men thus raised wool' not be good and proper soldiers. Ile wished as perience to be resorted to for the answer to dlit• The troops in the Regular Army, drawn from the Army of Reserve, were a sufficient pmnf of the fallacy of that. assartion. It was said the kU would impose an additional duty on the magistrates. But it was torgotten that it would relieve them from the immense labour of the Army of Reserve; from all the painful duties of the ballots, when they continually beheld the distress and misery that cora pulsory msde brought on thousands. He hadthouglt the ballots necessary at the time, but that nrcey . ti no longer existed, and th e ref or e poor, en wb.an they fell heavily, should be released from Ora. He believed the Bill leoeilbe r ecei~as a b oo r to the country. It removed high bounties, and the miseries of the ballot. When the Right Hcl. Gentleman fist °pond this plan during the la