The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1819-02-09 00:00:00

Learned Priend....(Hter, Aeits.)--11c Gentleman, hi.e 14. '0 1. wo uld eland up :aid sac, that there m an, not only in the House, but its the „0 m, inure capable of doing essential service M , a Committee of this deseription than he was.— (ilear, hear.)—But the Noble Lord said, the comber of the Committee was complete, and that 'so o ther name could he added. Now one of the w hich the Noble Lord qttoteds made 'oust its position. A Member, it appeared, woo ass known is be 400 miles off, and who e oelll tint possibly attend, was elected on a Scerrt Committee, which proceeded in its ditties wit h o ut lime. It', then, a dioniuution were *le what objection Could there be to all addl. tiles ? The fact was, Ministers would sever gi ve w a y to any thing whi ch originated on that side of the I louse, except they found the sense of the ma jority and of the country spinet them.--/Hear.) this instance they attempted to decide what was the law of Parliament, and stated, that, on such an mention such a mode was adopted. But, be cause fo r mer ParliamOnts had done .wrong. were they to proceed in a wrong course now ?—(Hear, hear.) —The Committee were bound to snake the most accurate report they could on the subject— and would the House, because 21 nuinee bad been selected, the most efficient Member being left out, persist in withholding from the Committer. the well. known talents of his Learned Vend ?—(Heer, 'Aeur.)—The opposition of the iloble Lord amount ed to nothing more than this, " lie shall not be added to the Committee, because he sits on the other side of the House."—( hear, itetar.)--It was mot pretended that he was not qualified—and the resistance to his nomiustion could only be traced to a system of hostility.—( Hear, hear.) —If the pumbers were so equally bah timed, ten persons taken from one side of the House, sod eleven from the friends of Ministers' it might be said, that those who proposed his Lea rned Friend wished to make the balance completely even. Bat the Noble Lord had taken ample security on that ( Hear, hear.) -4t present the Geutlenten taken from this side of the House were, compared with the friend' of Ministers, as seven to twenty-one .—and, if his Learned Friend were added to the her, they would be as eight to twent y -two. The Noble Lord could not surely suppose that Ins friends were so slippery , as to excite a suspicion that they would vote against him.—( Hear, hear.) There was no great fear of that, he believed—fur it could not be doubted that the Noble Lord had selected those who were most attached to his mea sures. The question was a most insportsot one. The House and the country filed their anxious at tention on it--and his Learned Friend, who stood at the head of those Members of Parliament re markable for persevetiof research into deep sod complicated subjects, ought not to be excluded from the inquiryr.flisae. hear.) Lord CASILSSZAOII believed that the Learned Gentleman was extremely capable of investigating an abstruse subject. It was alpinist the practice, sod not the individual, that he protested. Mr. S. WORTLEY perfectly ag reed with the Right Hon. Gentleman. that his Learned Friend was, in every respe4t, capable of examining this question. But, if he were not placed on the Cows. mittee, it was the fault of the Gentlemen opposite theanselves.--I Hear, hear.)—He would explain how far this appeared to him to be the fact. The liaise decided that 21 Members bimetal sit on that Committee, and that it should be fumed by bal lot, as in ancient times. There usually were two lists of name* when a ballot was appointed. But, on this occasion, the Geutlemen opposite did not offer any hat whatever. There were about 100 I.sts placed in the glass, by Gentlemen on his side of the House, but the Gentlemen opposite did tint come forward with • single list. Surely then, if they did not, they had no right to complain. If cnohalf of the minority that voted against the bal. lot, hid put iii a list with the utme of the Learned Gentleman, they would have carried their point. Several of the names on the lists which were put in. were altered by different Gentlemen. The same course was open to the Gentlemen opposite, who might have formed what lists they plealed--ssod if they neglected to do so, they had ho right to come olmie If they had come forward, they would hese bad a very good chance of succeeding. But, hay neglsocted their ditty, they ought not to be al lowed to persuade the House to add a new Member to the Committee.—(Heer, hear.) Mr. PitOTIIEROE said, the statement of the Hon. Member (Mr. Wortley) might lie theoretically cor rect, but, if examined practically, would be found to mean very little. NVas it not notorious, that, on every occasion of ballot, even where two hits were put in, that avowedly prepared by Ministers was sure to be carried ?--( near, hear.) —They were known to conic forward, as a body, with all their weight and influence, which it iv,is impossible to withstand. It would he more manly fur them to say at once, " We take the nomination of the Colo matte into our own instead of endeavour ing to defend the system they pursued by a weak subterfuge. He certainly wrield give his vote for :iding the name of the Learned Gentleman to the Committee. Mr. CA tour/. still, the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wortley) had thought ht to lecture the individuals atthat side of the House, for neglect of duty. Ile 4ave them good advice, and i.e hoped they would ilnprove by it. But he wichs just to ask of the lion. Gentieman. whether, if lie mid his friends had eta its 100 lists, they would out have been met by lye additional Iron the Miiiiatenal side of the llouse ?—( I km-, hear.) Ile believed 200 persons that ocea-ion, and that there were 175 :altered Tieasury lists. Mr. WA erilM A N said, if the object of Gentlemen %erre a full and fair inquiry, he could not see say they would oppose the present motion. He di d rot see why they should object to the 'lame of Mr. Brougham. s Gentleman pooteseng talents of the highest oeder, and knowledge of great extent. — Whatever Gentlemen may say its that House, by whatever pretext they might labour to get rid of such a putt, the country at large would say, that this Committee of Inquiry was but a Committee to suppress real inquiry. He void, he would ever op pose the appointment of a Committee by ballot, because lie considered it no improper mode o f 14.kt:till a Coi 1 1 11 l ittee ; it had indeed been made a lee of—it had afforded infinite amusement to the [her side of the House, but lie c onsidered it a .vv sad mspurtaut matter, and Gentlemen who treated it with 1. vitt., who call it a joke, chew very little respect for public opinion. Ile could nut think that the House would perform its duty, even if precedent were against the present motion. to exclude Mr. Brougham from the Committee. Pre cedent should not he attended to where precedent might he mischies cots. It might, he said, happen, that is particular individual, on a particular 40CC.1 mon, might he better qualified to act—iniglit have more capability and inforniati .. than all the . persona on the Committee put together ; it might happen that such a man might, by chance, or by design, be excluded—in such a case, hr would ask, was the House, was the country to be shut out from all the information such an individual could tilfard ow a mere matter of punctilio?—but us far as precedents go, it is stated that they are in favour of the nomi nation. For his part, he did not conceive that the mode adopted was the way to promote a full and complete inquiry; he fur one hail no expectation from the investigation. Thought lie had not, he said, the honour of a seat in the House before, yet he was not inattentive to its proceedings. He heard enough—the country heard enough of Secret Com mittees—they beard enough of the old jukes of the 1)4.110'1111g system—they heard enough of the Green Bag Committees, to hope for an useful ueanit. The fair intentiou of the ballotting system war, he said. to have the Members of Committees appointed unbiased and impartial. Time, however, had in verted it, and experience chewed that it was a sys tem that should not be upheld, hut ought, on every coilstitutional and honest principle, to he imme diately abaudoned. He would not, he said, detail' the House with any further observation. Mr. WILLIAMS WYNN Paid he should not feel an objection to the appointment of Committees by ballot, if that mode were purely and properly adopted; it might then be cobsidered as the vote of the House; but what surprised hint was the ob jection to the present motion on the ground of pre cedent. He said the cases were numerous where Members were added to Committees utter their op lorintinent. It frequently occurred so where Mem bers were out of Parliament at the time of the tippoititinent of the Committee, and whose know ledge and lab eurs were most desirable ; many in stances could be stated is mere Members were thus appointed. In the Committee of Secresy, is the year 1779, on the affairs of India, three eddit 1 Members were put on the Committee ; in 1781, there was another case; and there was, in 1797, the case of Mr. Fox. In addition to the propriety of putting upon the established precedents and custom of the (louse, the merits of the inltividuel. Iris extensive and useful knowledge, his great assi duity, his temper and his jodgineet peculiarly fitted lam fur the Committee. He (Mr. Wyliii) did not think that there was a dissenting voice in the whole country to l uestiim the political know ledge awl the industry of Nit.. Brouglium. The Hon. Gentleman conc4uded by saying, lie would certenilv vote lor the motion. Mr. CANNING !raid, that as what dropt from him the oilier eight had been frequently alluded to, lie would detain the blouse whilst lie said a few words. to taking the liberty the other night of speaking on the system by ballot, he said that one of the main advantages of that footle was, that any Member might vote for any particular individual to sit on the Committee witliont avowing his sentiments oue way or the other ; ;141(1 Gentlemen wonld do him the justice to recollect, that on that eight he elisteined frimi suakitig any remark on the qualities of any in dividual ; and as for the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. itrauglieni) a hose name is now in questiosi, he was williog to aubaciibe to all that had been said in his praise. He admitted dint instances had occurred, lifter the nomination of Committees by ballot, where the (limes of individuals had been added, but such cases always arose out of new consideratioos—such as Nlembere coming iitto the House who were not theme when the Ceintniitee Was appoilited—such es the peculiar fitness of particular Members for the subject to come under the consideration of the Coin mittve—(lleur,from the (lpposition,)- 7 these Mem bers nut having been sitting at the time the Cont. mittee had hero nominated. But when the House had at the time of the nomination the qualificatioil3 of all the Members before it, lie knew of nu occasion where Porliametit entertained a propo sition such as was now submitted. It was oil this ground that he opposed the motion. Ile Would abstain from any invidious coniparison— he relied on this, that the House, at the time the Committee had been formed, had a full and per fect knowledge oldie qualificatioi,s of all the Nlem bers--of the qualifications of the Honourable and Learned Gentlemen whose name was mentioned in the debate; yet with this knowledge they did not appoint him—and therefore, ptittmg individual qualifications altogether out of the question, lie would oppose the motion on principle—he would oppose it, becatitie it would be inconvenient to open the Committee anew—lie would oppose it, because lie Believed that if the name of the Hoe. rind Lraru.d (11-titleman (M r. Brougham) were added, the alteritt. would not stop there. Mr. WYNN rose to say a few words, rendered in his mind necessary from the, speech of the Right 114 m. Gentleman who had just sat down. The precedents lie hill alluded to before were tweet.- dews exactly tit point. tint precedents that fell un der the description of those relied on by the Right Hon. Member. Ile would ment the case of Lied Finch and the Chancellor of t!!e Exchequer, who, in the year 1715, were added to a Cuininittee. In 1773 the names of Mr. Jenktissoo (die late Lord Liverpool!, Mr. Langley, and Mr. Hopkinson, were adder( to a Committee of that House. Fu 1781 the t.anit of Lord I ;bittern was added to u Committee of that House. Lastly. he would tneutiou the case of Mr. Fox, iii 1797. Ile would only say. that all these were Members of the House at the tune the Committees had been originally appointed, and this, he trusted, would be a sufficieut answer to the ground of objection relied on by the Right Hon. Urialeiniiii (Mr. Ca 111 l i l tg). Mr. BARHAM sand, that the fact wits known, that the appointment of Committees as they were now appointed, were little better than a delusion ; it was a kind of juggle on the country. An Hon. Gentleman had stated. on a former night, that du ring his experience in Parliament. two lists bad been Away, circulated on the appointment of Comilla tees ; but he (Mr. Barham) could stets that during Ins experience, he handy foetid that the Oppo eit mu list was alto possible use, amid the consequence had always been, that the great majority of all • Committees liaul been tiorninated by the Nlioister. *Loll tlitts:—The reverate of lain, pr! lie syllabi rejoice to P-r the practice droppeol, he- 54.068,0 00 r ; the resenne in 1818, proi:o , 7e4l cause it wit' both partial amid tuifor. As for the ' 39.744.00 0 /. ; the surplus of 'isn't:mew taxes Is tatint of Gentlenieut ut hi 4 ride of the House not 3,• •18,00 0 /. whirl' is out less iliati ten pet rent• lii dnichargiug their duty, he felt that it was nu t crease Oft the revenue; this he saiil oil. the st lona cessary fur him to notice mt ; but this lie would nay, i est proof of the iii:•rywattg proaincta th, eolintry. that it was much heifer, tool more h one st, if G e n. of her aolimi r esources, ;old her tio , ,eoving caistoeree. denten did not pretrial to dia char go the dut y they It was o rcesaary, he said. ts rental k, that this owed to the people. than public onderstoodoig. It wet a hopeless attempt ; great -awl extraordinary dentaild fur any woollier the people would see the conduct of Gentlemen iu I article of counnieree. Ile eimuslil rotate thirty or its true light ; they would see that t some me n 1 laity different a r ticle*, only two of -whim h priultteril sail the- dal it were vain to expect tiny thin:: that wan useful to any IMplif lout iuscre.wc the reoMilr, the country. As far the objectutm to the pretreat I nut immtunt to Inure imam ilu 11 atretm that:sand d motion, he considered it' little weight, halved. pounds. It 111 11 1 1•11 .11 Y 11‘ 1 1"'"'""it Deficient in argioneut, and opposed to precedent. marmite of the solid commerce of the country. it had for its object the exclosiotu from an important Having stated so fur, lie would beg to odd mt kw Committee, who imule e ver y inquiry is 4111111illeatints pre-eminently addlfiOnal facts. time fitted him to sit on that Contitultue. T here was possible Ise air i uto the colittliem coal 'date of the not. he believed, a n i n dividual in th e c ountry ca• country, acid who took the be-t prospective view in gable of forming a Pound opinion whir Wilda not their power of the income and the extienses of the declare, that Mr. Brougham ono m maul, above all m country fot the year 10.'9, stale that they thonglit it others. most tit to sit on that Committee, from sale to assign a .urn of 5!,500,000/. its'the rraenue. which the Ministers to actively laboured to exclude end • mon 51.‘97," 001 . as she attleittnt of the him. expenses ; thus leaving it surl,lin. of 1,430.0 1 81!. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) said, he beard Gentle- 'Phis, hr was the est i mate ra mie by the men at the other side dwell very largely on the mittee, but he would lie f ; leave In s u bmit to tie talents and the information of the 1-14111.1415 , 1 Learned House what lie emmeol, Im mu the affairs of the coommtry AlletOber (11r. ; best shoe finalities, in to be hi a limormit'ial point of view. luotead ef Ilia mood, were slot all shut was necessary—these i 52,400,00 C. lee was glad iss hr able to star, that would not induce lion to accrue to the present t the revenue itturninted to 5.11)00,011UL conseith-sitly motion—he could conceive a Gentleman at the i leaving 1.500,00'1/. noire dam svmai the most sato 134 f. learned as ft Lawyer, but a loin his Majesty ginute expectations of the 1111 l matte could hope for. would not he rotator(' to almond to any ,joint nil On the other lewd. the Cu 11111 l ittee eettmated the situation.—(Cries " Question ! question ."' ) experts , s of lite year at 51,087,000/.; but it Ile could conceive a case where a moil might be gave hint intir•lt pleamire to be aide to estonate very highly skilled in divinity, yet the Ministers o f those expetuaes at 50,442,00 N. being 645,0044. his M a jesty would rio t he , m de m sed t o ma ke him a Its. than the rstim "lion of the Committee; Bishop.—(Mach Linghlee.)—Government and the mid there is now a surplus over the absolute ex- Howse had other considerations in view besides the i prune. of the country of 3,550,000/• appltrable to appointment of the Hon. 'Member; and though het the reduction ed of wit the a stem of debt. Thone mis lone , m., hos/eerie, ch would slot deny him the wane, on the score of iii- may be chargh whi formation and of talents. he' would still vote :loom tie hoped to he able meet by Ilw ciierring him. Precedents hal been mentioned—he coo- Pects which the revenheld out—porsprits, its sidered the matter should rather he derided by deed, the most cheering, for it appears that the the discretion of the House ; he felt that he increase of the reventie for the last month was from had a right to use his disci-etas:l, nod he would 300 1a 350,0001. more Ilion ally mouth of the lost vote t i me aainst the motion. Alm!' had been attimi quarter. This, lie autici, was a moist detnotistratise about management of Government waking proof of the iocreasing revenite of the State. Hassid out lists, but he verily believed treat if Governmetst he could not but emigratolitte the country on the had been ever so anxious, it would he ant of their happy prospects it preatoned. There was a surplus of power to procure the nomination of the !lon. Gen- three trillium', and if his prospects of the year were Britian (Mr. Brougham), ott the Committee.— realised, it would amount to not less thati three (Loud Itln z srifter.j—He was not admitted to say millions and a half. The conntry mini thereto's , that Government could nut induce lout to vote fur look forward with just hope to an oinelioratiou that. appointment. of its burdens, adoiving mill practical reonoiny, Lord Mooorrif ,aid, lie could not flee on whit Una 1111illg that mol dy f o rtitude f or w hich th e fair ground the present tiro was oppoaetil. He iiilhilistatit* of this empire are so distinguished— could not help observing, data it appeared to him they might look forwent to are the most severe and ass nut one of the leant extraordinary effints made ill oppressive of the taxes repealed. Tit's reduction, modern times to exclude • matt I' as inquiry, I suit doubt, would be imputed by the Right lion. whom ei•ery one acknowledged possessed to much I Gentleman at the other side, to the excellent useful intortitatioo, was in every way so efficierit, advice which lie kindly bestowed—advice which, acid whose efiiiits would trail to public. good. he assured him, when it was useful, he would Mr. MARRY are said he would oppose the mo- avail himself of. 'llse Government, he said, tion, because tie thought that there were already too I made every retrenchment that could be node many theoretical, and too few practical men inter- with safety to our domestic and foreign relations. tering in the conduct of public affairs. They could not take upon themselves the respon- Mr. IlanoBv .sal, the Hon. Geotlentan (Mr. sibility of reducing any of their establishments till Martin) had thought fit to say. that a lawyer with- they clearly saw their way. Ai to the reductions in out principle, end a divine without piety, write the army, he sated, that though the Committee tint lit to be appointed On a Committee of the did not coatemplate so large a reductino, the (louse.—(Cries of " Question! question .!") army wire reduced by is number of 31,567 men. As to the Honourable and Learred Gentleman —Time Navy Estimate was at 100 . 000/. and the reduction in the Ordnance amounted to a like (Mr. Brougham). he was a law, r, not only of great learitiog aud ability, hut in other respects " n • disbanding of troupe, he said, was in O live-eminently qualified to itivestigitte the subject self a source of expense ; there alwoya a tempo fur which tlw Committee had been apponted. It tory expense to pay for broken periods; it is not had been said, that Gentlemen of the Oppoaion possible to reduce regiments at the same period, IW. had not done their duty ;if the chorge were t rue , rt cause nutty Of them happen to be at remote dn.- surely they ought now to retuedy the defect as tturces ; thus and various other 'causes induce at all soon as passible. Hot. Gentleman, after *lmes, us it did at this time, a temporary expense to a few words on the Ogli qualifications of Mr. Govertonent, but it is an expense which must crate Brougham, sat dowin with the occaaiott, and cannot occur in future years. The question was then loudly called for, awl the There was also as sum last year of four bundled thousand pounds paid to Spain for the tamosent Gallery 1/1141 cleared, when there appeared— of that power to the abolition of the Slave Trade. Fur the Matitm Against it tirade in the army. litre he entered ion, the items of reduction, whit!), in the whole, tarnipooted t o thirty-five thousand sod odd hundred writ. Ile btated that a soot of 16,000,000. was allowsd for for army and navy—but if it was recollectmot that 4,000,0001. of that turn were given in pro-sons mud half-pay, to reward those brave men to whom time country are so much indebted, sod who would, be was convinced, isiways 'twelve the inarka of public gratitude with cheerfultiess on the port of' the peopl—these four millions would reduce the actual sum from twelve to *lateen mul lions. 'llwae four millions would he willingly paid to our gallant defenders by sea mid laud ; but it was smnortant to recollect, that every year moat net...nerdy reduce this sum. It was out a permanent charge on the country, and it would not be too much to say, that every year would reduce it by 130,0001. His Lordship said, that having stated what appeared to him material, he would beg It, add one simple fact to chew the great increase of conimerce. He would prove that in crease by the only sure test—the offivial succonots. These are, in fact, rather on account of the quantity, thou the value; rod from these it would appear, that the present has heeo the greatest year in the history of British cotionetre, nut excepting 1815. which was considered all exception to ail established rut les—a year which produced from 9 to 10,000,0001. excess.—[Here he read the returtio.]-1.1 1815 the official account of British produce amounted to 33,V31,0001. In 1816 there wan in great reductions— t:toa,al.ooo,lo 00 18 /. 18 1 t o o j o 3173.511,1e,0r0w0az iii ut fell untroseto ontl. 1, 1319, judgoug fIUID what ins already passed, Intro the great iticreaft of one mouth, it was but reasonable to hope for a still granter increuae—an in crease which promised to uphold far England that pre-eminence fur public credit and commercial greatness which she has long held in Europe.— Arlie Noble Lord said, he would wall to coofine the Members of the Committee to those who sat 4111 the former Committee. to them the House and the cuuutry were largely indebted. From time dip - of . ileiotiti spinet the Molise 42 STATE OF THE 14ATION. Lord CASTLERSAOH said, that in musing for a (71,1111111 ii er IO inquire into the timincial state of the coulitrv, the House would expect from hitn none general outline, not only of the present state IS our atfrirs, but of what Government had in con tri.ip:ation. The statement he should make would lie ir. a very narrow ennipass ; lint hefore he went into that ttitetitettt, he thought it right to say, that lie did not thisok it would in future he ne cessary to tall for the animal appointment of a Committee such as he would now 'wive for. In submitting to the I louse, according to hi. concep tion, the state of the expenses of the country, he felt happy, he said, to mitioulice that the expenses of the country were within its income. The Report of the Committer of Finance not mile states that the expensesof the country err within it. Income. but dust there is a very comitlvrable overislos ; that Co 11111 l it tre has furnished to the House the most satisfactory and the most pleasing information of the present financial state of the empire. The state of the re venue, ending January 1819. when compared with reference to the ensuing quarter, would satisfy the House of the progressive increase of the public re sources. In order to give a clear view of the sups ject, he would state the income of the country. lip to January 1819, the revenue amounted to 54,063,0001. ; the revenue of the preceding year amounted to 51,665,00 u/. and thus leaving an in crease in the reseisue, from January 1818 to Ja nuary Isl 9, to the amount of 2,398,000/. But the House would allow him to oKterve, that it eppesra that out of the fifty-one millions six loin dred and sixty-five thousand pounds, there were ar rears of property tax, to the amount of two millions three hundred and thirty-eight thousand 'room's; slid after deducting those arrears, it reduced that sum to forty-nine millions three hundred and twenty-four thousand pounds; and the net improve ment of the permanent taxes for the year 1819. was above four millions. There was, he Calif. a consi derable amount of sugar duly ar.ticipated iii 1818, which should properly belong to 1819; sod theme fore it would he tithe to transfer the amount of the sugar duty (buo,ooo/.) from 1818 to the year 1819. If you compare, said he, the produce of taxes for the year ending J.itsuary 1818, with the produce of taxes fur the sear ending 1819, the account will •.• .t. 5,.... :... _ .... tinny that have been mmle, and promising and io crensing tis were the reSOUrCell of the coma' y, lie would tor his part be always wiling, where any sole ;sr practical retrenchment could he made, to adopt it. He could not pledge himself for the prospects of the future ; but they were promising, and hr relied on the resources of the country, on the inthistiy, the fortitude, and the perseverance of the people. He hoped yet to see molly of the burdens which press heavily on them at present, removed—sod to see those springs of public loolrer.ty restored to their foil .elasticity. ohich.lool berg overstrained in a war con tooted fur tale extstei.ceo.ni c : o!c!..d.it for nor glory. Tor Nobler Lord sto , .:i, l'eAl o' *v.: Lis iii ! v :;tiott to propose the re-appiiiiti anent tit the former Com mittee, except with respect to the itatnes of two individuals who were not . Nleinbers of the present liarliament, lie meant Sir Thomas Acland and Mr. Robert Smith ; in the rcorw of t hese e, s ii t i,.. men lw would proio the 'lenses of Sir George 1111 and Mr. John Smythe. He concluded by motoos for the apponitnient of a Committee to consider of the state of the Expenditure of the Country, and also to consider what was likely to be the probable expenditure for the current year. The Noble Lord alaq moved that the Committee do consist of the following (Members : Lord Csolereagls I The Chancellor of the Es. Mr lisiikris chequer Mr. Bootle Wilbraham Lord Biuning Mr.llai • Dsvis Mr. Peet Mr. Nicholson Calvert Sir George Clerk Mr. Huskissou Mr. Frankland Lewis Lord Clive Mr. Triminvile Mu. Lyttelton Mr. Hotroril Mr. Davis Gilbert Mr.). Smythe Mr. Cartwright Mr. Calcratt Sir George Hill Mr. Gooch. On the motion being put from the Chair— Mr. TlEttr4cY rose arid said, that from the no tice which the Noble Lord had given on a former night, nobody could have imagined that it was his intentton in merely moving for the renewal of a Finance Committee, to have opened what was in fact the Budget to the House. —(lfear.)—lf the Noble Lord had had the candour to have announced such to have been his intention, then Gentlemen might have come prepared to meet him on the sub ject ; as it was, however, and -taken by surprise as the House was, every Gentleman conversant in the financial state of the country must merely on the spur of the occasion make Such an answer to the Noble Lord's statements, as his memory of facts furnished. Ile recollected the appointment of the last Finance Committee, and also the little value he set upon their labours. If the. Finance Committee did no more than receive the Noble Lord's budget, as he delivered it in his speech, and send it then bark again to the House in the shape of 0 iteli.vrt, what possible good could he anti cipated from their labours ?—(thae../ft was idle to expect any thing benefit al from the labours of a Committee selected in this manner, and only garnished with the names of a few independent Members, jest to make the proceeding colourable. The former Committee, in their Report, laid, they were happy to find that Ministers adopted every suggestion they gave. To he sure they did, for it was the Government, in the first instance, gave the sug4estion, and thEn the Committee h ad onl y to g o ' 1 through the formality of rendering it hack a i eati to the quarter from whence it came.—( heir, hear.) —A Finance Committee, really established to du public good, should enter auto a general soil cottt prehensive inquiry, which embraced every depart ment in the State, with a view to the reduction ..11 all useless expenditure it, each particular account ; but all the former Committee did was to make gaudy estimates of prospective savings, end to leave the real question just as they found it. If a Committee were formed like that in which the present Lord Colchester once presided, or like that of Mr. Batikes, then something might he expected in arise from the appointment—then the lionge might de rive scone real good, instead of being merely treated with budgets by anticipation. Eve,. of this last merit the present Committee were likely to he di vested, for their budget by anticipation was in itself anticipated—(/fear, Lear, awl laughter)—sod they would only' have the credit of conveying back the Noble Lo,d's speech in the shape of a Itepore_— %%Thai the House arid the country really th•tri.(l o,ls, an inquiry into the departments of the Revcime, the Excise, the. Customs, the Stamps, for the purpose 01' ascertaiiiing how far the expe...r: ..f each could be curtailed and reduced. The Noble Lord had given a very llourishiug state of the commerce of the country ; into this statement he (Mr. Tierney) could not follow him, for he had ii the official documents to guide his steps ; but all lie would say on this point was, that if the Noble. Lord was right, all the merchants with ohnin he (Mr. I'.) had conversed, and they were of the fist re spectability, and not politically connected, were eta tirely wrong. May not this tiouri.liing state have been in no small degree effected by the operation of the paper system, which created an artificial capital f That the commeice of the country was iii a pro._ perous state, he fully believed; but ',lieu the Nulde Lord said its flourishing trade was the admiration of the world; lie could uuly in his turn admire the Noble Lord's coctident declaration. As to the set:- otantial increase iii the revenue, lie agreed wash toe Noble Lord, and congratulated the noilht , y o ! 111 it. But he wonted to get at what the Nillite Lord really meant when he asserted that the last year lett a surplus in favour of the comm . ): of two minim , * four or live hundred thousand pounds. The N Ide LORI stoutly asserted that there was this build's., but he cantiously steered clear altogether of Ihe Sinking Furol.—(ileur.)— Was that to be lust sight of to the Noble Lord's tiontleinl rt•lo toe, o r was it to be merely reserved for a future OCia•SUa ? He had also left out of view the old debt of three millions and a half upon the Consolidat. d 1 7 aiii.l. Surely that ought to he peal and a balance struck before a round sum of raving should be strocl.. What was the income min ex pendiiiire iii Iloilo of fact, taking the onus in rotund numbers ? TI e ‘Vays nod Means of this year to meet the experoli ture were as follow : The Land and Malt Tsars ri.rno.noo 3,:500,0mi The War and Excise Duties The Old Shires and Lotteries, about ••• • • . a 041,000 ------ wi t ...1... r Juke 3 utter S •gral I a 1818, tinct and clear view ul• the fiti.iiicial mate of I t h e ," the empire they had already given (which "" Making a romad Total of 17,000,000 tOrI hr tint the lest to be retard hecriume it was MO.. This was the total available fund for the current it 1619• deratr), and from the accurate knowledge they year, seta for potsept, they are likely to throw the light of terest on Exchequer Billy, the Army, Navy, o.rt- in meet the charges on the Sinking ruirit, ne- tt of truth and information upon the sititiject. His Lord- mince, end ether Departrnents,--(Hear, Isear.)-- 'Jut will ship concluded by taxying, that great at the teduc- What was become of the million which was to be - •"•r. . * - .