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his country ? him whose services and ie so peculiarly desirable and necessary perilous as the present. BesiJes, should ' • take place, the managers, in their F. would have an opportunity to with their inveinivel,.which he could Upon the whole) a .Fjpil process was course for both .parties, the public, lviile thataway a man could not ;der a demurrer, unless it agreed rules of the Court; and if anysums ifroin Cie parties, it would he more public, and more beneficial too, punishment that could be inflieted on than proportionate punishment had 'ready, and no sense of public duty being pushed any further Upon and in consideration of the long and is services of Viscount Melville, he terse to the original Motion and to said, that though perfally satisfied t question had been sufficiently ac he could not in silence suffer the a division upon such a speech as leered. The Noble Lord's speech con parts—a defence of Viscount Melville; against Mr. Whitbread. With some implements, he charged Mr. Whit want of judgment, and involving the • consequence of it. He would on this how long it was that his Hon. Friend och influence over the House, as to recessary to caution them against his se '- Honourable Friend did certainly great industry and ability ; hut he prehended that Seth would hardly suf ic he had to convince that Houle, ! truths, proofs, and justice, strongly Was impossible for loin) to have m all the steps they had taken, as the which he succeeded was, that of in to concur in the resolution, that Vis _ had detest in violation of he law, to added a notice of moving for a process at ei be commenced fur the recovery of the Sled. Mr. Whitbread afterwards moved ' Committee to be appointed, to inquire h Repo-r, and the participation of Vis- Ile in pr. fits made by Mr. Trotter. se „ successfully opposed by the Mi ;opus.- ' t 4releit Committee, oa the Mr. Whitbread was engaged already to for raring 'Visits:ll:ant Melville to ac process, for any participation in the Hon. Frieiat, therefore, in consequence maneenvre, declined havi sg, any thing to do proceeding, which he was convinced could he nothing beneficial to the public. The however, was soon after taken up by . Gentleman (Mr. S. Stanhope), who the wrentious advocate of Viscount Mel whose name had never before nor since in any division against tl - e Noble and, in consequence, the Motion for prosecution was agreed to. He admit • the Resolutions, such as they were, • been a considerable punishment upon feeling and honour, but could never considered as a sufficient retribution A esornmisted against the public. The far from being unpreceslented. There instances of resolutions against individu. charges, as against Mr. Hastings, which mere detailed reolutious, and art im immediately followed it; so that Vis ille could not be more hardly dealt with experienced by many other Englishmen . The Resolutions were said to be 'wed ;device ; hut there was evidence in the ad -1 Melville himself, as well as Mr. Trot : violation of the law. They also seem spon the punishment of resigning his diming removed from the Privy Council. certainly some punishment, but not that • required for the distributing the justice antry. He alloged , 4also, that this pu nt was ton great and disproportionate to offence raentionedrita the Resolutions; but he observed that neither Viscount Melville's participation with Mr. Trotter, nor the application .v to other services, nor refusing to give any the 10,0001. nor the Mixed Fund, nor the ivy Seal in the affair of Mr. Jellicne, had made any part whatever of the charge. these proceedings were so many losses to the was perfcdtly evident ; for, it had been ' by Viscount Melville himself, that seven pounds a-year could have been made . money which had been advanced him by Trotter. If taking the money from the Bank useful praftice, and meant to be avowed, why to Parliament for an act to legalise t hat was heretofore illegal As to the asset t ion had been produtlive of no mischief, surely ame argument would have been as good for Trotter, as it would be for Viscount Melville. Tespea to the connivance, nothing in the world sve been more plain, for Viscount NI.-leille acknowleged, that he thought and believed Trotter had made use of the money for his • advantage; but that he allowed the Israe -1 consequence of the smallness of his sa -1 his he did wilfully and knowingly, for he mare of the recommendation of the Fi- Committee, that no private profit should id- of the navy money ; had himself procured rdcr of council to enforce it ; and was himself the mover and immediate author of the liva .he was afterwards the first to violate. His amerce with Tooter was also proved to demon .; for though Lord Rayning had in the last only a balance et 60001. but when Trotter appointed, he, in one year, brouvht his L - to 104,0001. The A& of Parliament en that the Treasurer should be confined to . salary, and he excluded from all pro fits but the balances in the hands of Viscount Melville (0 f ukirh he reed the atatertertt , ), from year, amounted to vast sums, and the ad , would only be made g Ad by the jobbing, , toting, and other advantages made of money, between him and Trotter. He .therefore though; there was di-ea proof, as well as circurnstan evidence; of the participation. Throu7h the • be saw a regular system of connivance, frau _ concealment, acs destruction of papers, cancel the evidence of criminality. Viscount • " • Melville heard from Mr. Pitt, the observations made by Mr. Raikes ; and replied to it, that he thought no moreononey was drawn from the Bank than what was necessary for naval services. • This was his answer in 1797, and he thought proper to state the same that night in the House, notwith standing his admission, that he thought and be lieved Mr. Trotter to have used the money for pri vate emolument. He certainly must have known it at the very time, for he was himself in the habit of re ceiving daily advances from 'l'rotter. Where was it to come from? Trotter could not afford to give it, as he proved that Viscount Melville paid no inte rest for it ; and was not this alone a demonstration of the motives to concealment ? When the Commis sioners of Naval Enquiry first issued their precept to the Navy Pay Office, no notice was for a long time taken of it. They wroteto Viscount Melville, then in Scotland, and in six days afterwards, the 7th day of February, 1803, received an answer from him, stating that he was usable to furnish them with any documents whatever, as since his arrival in Scotland he was in the habit of destroying all those papers, which he conceived could be no longer useful to him. After having done this, he begged the House to attend to the next proceeding. On the eighteenth of the same month, he executed the release with Mr. Trotter, which contained the clause for cancelling those very documents and vouchers, which he stated to the Naval Commissioners twelve days before, that he had been some time in the habit of decroying Was it then, after such pro ceedings, illiberal in any man to say, that he could not believe the statements or assertions of such a mac, or that there was no additional proof or aggravation of his guilt since the first resolu:ions, when not a p article was known of the release before the Report of the Committee on the Tenth Report? Viscount Melville wished also to induce the House to believe, that the ad vances made by Trotter had been defrayed out of his fund. from Scotland ; but was it possible that these funds could have been competent to that repay nt, or that their increase could be in proportion to that of the advances which rose gradually and an nually fromll,llool. in the first year, to the amount at last of 19,0001. and upwards. Resides all these, it came out that considerable sums had been invested in the different funds, in the name of Lord Vis count Melville, to the amount of 90001. in one, 70001. in another, Ace. all which disappeared on hi, retirement horn office, as if for the purpose of making up his balances. Another matter was, the great change of circumstances in Mr. Trotter him self. Viscount Melville said, that on going into the Pay Office he found him there, poor, and living on a small salary; but that be found him so meritori ous in proposing to him useful suggestions, that he encrcased his salary, placed his confidence in him, and made him his Agent General !—A very goad birth, eo doubt, as his situation was soon so greatly bettered, that he was in a condition to make him large advances, and to continue it ever after, as long as his Lordship continued in office. All these things taken together, he contended to amnont to something more tan circumstantial evi dence, of itself at all times sufficient to put an ac cused pray on his trial; but also to amount to a complee chain of parts, which could not be mis taken. There remained yet to be added the com plete contradiaion between the two principals, who were brought forward on this business. Viscount M. Wile had more than once yesterday positively and solemnly stated, in that House, that the ad vances mad- to him by Mr. rmtter were never more than 30001. or 49001. at one time. Trotter, on the contrary) asserted before the Naval Commissoners. and the Committee on the Tenth Report, that his ad vances to the Noble Viscount were occasionally 20,0001. or more at a time, and it remained with the hearse to judge which of those two statements they were more desirous of believing ? The additional in formation respeßingthe secret application of 10,0001. at the time Lord Melville was the confidental ad viser of Government upon Scotch affairs, was never brought forward at all, until it was discovered by the Committee on the Tenth Report, in the progress of its enquiries. This he considered as forming perhaps the mat-t prominent of the whole • and, what mast strike every man present with astonishment, was that though the Noble Viscount was sworn, and well known to have frequently in his hands lame sums of the public money, which be applied to different ser vices and purposes, in various ways, he confidently and boldly declared, in the presence of them all, that he never would disclose to aay human being the mannerin which he privately disposed of this sum of public money. Then it seemed, according to his new dulirine, it was quite sufficient for a servant of Government to tell them, with an aggravating in sult, •• I have privately and confidentially disposed of this sum of public money, for your benefit, as I tell you, as you may probably think for my own; bat be that as it may, my mind is made up ; lam posi tively determined, whatever may be the consequence, that I never will make any disclosure of the applica tion of this money to arty human being !" What then could be the nature of this t ra n s aetion ' which he never would disclose to any o n e, even his own most intimate and confidential friend? Who, did he think, were to be the confiding dupes that could be contented n ith such a declaration from any man, but must particularly from him ? if Parlia ment was to be satisfied, and pass over such treatment as this, without instituting any criminal proceeding on it, all its boasted restraint and con straint and controul over the purse and expenditure of the nation must be nothing but a farce, and all future attempts to question or arraign the abuses of any delinquent must be at an end for ever. After this, wheat security could there be, that the tame abuses an.! peculation should not he ever passing with im panity, and even without question before the eyes of Parliament ? Let this be considered by way of analogy, ani compared with the pu•iishments in. flitted at common law, even for the most trifling offe::ces. It would not, surely,be contended that the greatness of a man's rank or power should be suffered to operate as a diminution of any crime he may commit, and yet they would find, that in common practices, repetitions of wrongs, even less Ireqaently than in this case, committed, suhjeEted the offendee to no less a penalty than transpor tation for life ; and was Viscount Melville's exclu sion from office, and from the List of Privy Coun sellors, to be at all compared to such a punishment ? He supposed for a moment, that petsons might be placed in the situation of Viscoust Melville, nut having these nice principles of honour about them. and asked what was the probable costsetinence ? Privately steeling, he said, was, by the law, * capi tal offence, while stealing openly was cooly subjea to transportation ; what inference, therefore, was to he drawn Suppose persons not of the nice keit* and delicate tense of honour of Viscount Melville, were to corm into that situation, what temptations we .e there for them, to gratify a sordid passion? The Noble Viscount had followed th:s praafee for upwards of fourteen years, without any discovery ; what an example was this for those who should fol low him ! What effea might such an example have in future ? The Learned Gentlemen (the Attorney Geaeral) had been direeted to proceed in a civil suit; but he was of opinion, that nothing could be made of that suit. The Noble Lord's (Castlereagh) oblation to the criminal proceeding was, because it was impossible that Viscount Melville could be acquitted ; he had admitted it was a breach of the spirit of the law; arid if the Noble Lord was subjea to condemnation from his own aft, he must of course suffer in his own wrong If the matter went to an impeachment, a charge would be made of participation of profit arising out of the public money. If the Noble Lord had been deceiv ed by Mr. Trotter in the went, he would stand ac quitted before hls country. •As a friend, therefore, of the Noble Lord, he asked, why not put him upon his trial ? Considering the nature of the accusations, the charafter of the person against whom they were brought, ail of those who were to ennalmik it, pat ti cuter'', his Noble Friend (Mr. Whitbread), who hack every time he spoke on the subjeft, raised him self higher in the opinion of his countrymen. If the impeachment was not adopted, he considered the prosecution by the Attorney Gement the next best mode : there was such a mass of evidence, and so strong a conviaion of participation on the pert of the Noble Lord, that he gave his hearty concurrence to the motion before the House. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. Mr. W. DUN DAS SAUNDERS (eon of Lord Melville) declared in setting out that he should not enter into any very great length of discussion upon the question before the Honsc ; he merely rose to advert to some few points which had been mention ed in the course of the debate, by the Honourable Gentleman who spoke last (Mr. Grey.) When the subjea was brought before such a tribunal as that House, when matters were thereon brought forward ac matters of fea, when they were not so, Viscount Melville had great reason to comalain. lie was ac cused of that peculation which had caused loads and taxes to be heaped upon the country : this also was false, and only tended to inflame the minds ot the people. With respea to the assertion that Vis count Melville had postponed the execution of an Aft, framed under his own particular cognisance, for the space of six months, he referted the 11 -use to the first clause of that Aa, where the circum stances were declared, and it might be seen that the Aft direaed annual accounts to be closed on the 3 I sr of December in every year, and consequeutly the Aft being passed in the month of June, 1785, it could not take effea till the December foliovring. A great deal had been said with reseed to the state ment of Mr. Raikes. Viscount Melville's reply, he contended, bore a very different construction from thas.whieh had been put upon st by the aloes& The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bond) had adverted to se veral sums of moiler standing in the name of Vis count Melville, in the Bank, under the head of Loy alty Loan and other sources. His Lordship would willingly have explained that, which he also could do, but it would be going into a long detail of family transa&ion', a part of which applied to himself, but did not by any means apply to the public. Upon the subjea of the fetus:, he only observed that the Gentlemen were not aware of the preaiees in Scotland, nor open to that conclusion which should he drawn from that circumstance. All the Afts of Registration were inspefted at the Quarter Sessions, and in all cases a blank was lett for the Procurators. until such time as they should be put in suit. With respeft to the precept front Trotter to Lord Melville, he had male all possible enquiries, and could not find any such, previous to July 1804. Mr. Boma and Mr. GREY severally explaire.l. Mr. ELLISON wished for the dignity of Parlia =enc. as well as for the satitfattion of the country, that some public enquiry should be instituted, if it was nothing more than by way of example to others. He therefore concurred in the original Motion. Mr. G. VANSIT I'ART approved of a crimi nal prosecution, as the least expensive mode of pro seeding. Mr. BANKS said that his own original view of the subjea led him to be persuaded that any prose cution of the civil kind would be wholly nugatory, end of no avail, and most, from the nature of it, be very tedious in the proceeding; and the only way th4t this matter could be thoroughly sifted, so as to bring down condemnation or acclaim!, was by a criminal prosecution. Front taking a general survey of the subject, and from considering it with the greaten attention he was capable of, he always thought it must be a case of a very extraordinary nature, which could induce him to have recourse to this mode of proceeding ; for which purpose, he had consulted some precedents, which he referred to ; the one was that of Lord Halifax, in the year 1702, who was accused of being guilty of a breach of trust, in not examining the Teller of the Exchequer's accounts at the end of every month, according to the pro. visions of the aft. With regard to the punishment to be intlieted, it had been said by some Gentlemen, that it was a hard thing to condemn before a trial ; that they should nut pass sentence before they had heard the evidence on both sides; in answer to this he would say, thareieither sentence nor condemna tion had passed. Before any proceedings ware insti tuted for the prosecution of a crime, it should he ascertained that such crime did exist ; before means were peweestfor a breach of an Aft of Par- Mamma, it be sueertained that such an Ast of Parliamall aim, and that such a breach had taken PUSS. die ease of Lord Halifax, an address was prismod to Her Majesty to give di mities's to Her Majesty's General to re. elasee in the first humane*. This he considered a complete precedent in the present question, which was recorded of the Journals of the House, and was a much stronger case than the present. had been also seated that there was an accumalai of punishment in this case, but he could not t" so. As far as the House was concerned, no r whatever had been =tied to His Majesty; but the. Resolutions of the House of Commous were merely laid before His Majesty for the purpose of shewing to him what description of persons were employed about His Majesty's person, leaving it to His Ma jesty to use his royel discretion upon the subjeCt, and respeafully to represent to him that such i per son should not be about his person, or bold any high official situation, or any rank or dignity, or even to at tend, or approach within His Majesty's presence. Ile also adverted to the one of the Duke of Merlborough, upon whom the censure of the House was &react , . When those resolutions were carried, it was not with a view to the amowit of the punishment, but such resolteiens were gertentily the foundation for such punishment. Ile apprehended that, if after a fair and candid ineestigaeoe, in A regular mode of pro ceed:;; by tri ; it might be found that Lord Viscount Melville had laboured under a load of obliqny, and suffered frost the miscondeet of others, and not ; there was nothing whatever to prevent IL; Majesty from restoring him to his honourable list re Privy Cteensellors, pr ivided it did appear that he had been fully, fairly, e el candidly cleared and acquitted ft urn those acctise tions. With respece to the proceeding; in the chit suit being suspended, hi was not aware t h vt sus' one step had been taken in that ; nor did he believe there was any progress whatever made, or the slightest incoevenience had aeisenoither tube Hoese or to the perties, from the institution of that suit. And he could not etc oat single ci:cumstarce ur the least reason to irehice the House to come to the conclusion that no further enquiry or punishment should take place. It was said, that there was ao new matter before the House, but, in his orieion, there was new matter abundantly to induce the House to retrace their steps ; this was required et their hands, not only for the support 4 the dignity of dolt house, but also for the satisfaction of the public at large ; and until the delinquency of Vie. count Melville was established by a fair, candid, and impartial ti Id, the country would be by no means s trisfircl Neit'aer, he would ask, was there any thing new is the ideate ? was nothing new brought out, upon the further enquiry of the House itself ? Was tecre nothing in the application of the 23,0001. But suppose, for a moment, there was nothing whatever in all these ; what, then, was to be said to the dark and mysterious transallion, in the year 1736, relative to the 10,0001. ? bow was that to be accounted for? It appeared that Mr. Douglas was not the private agent of Viscount Mel ville—but, soon after elr. Trotter came into office, he was made the private agent r f Lord Melvlle and the Noble Lord hecatte his debtor to the amount of 10,0001. This was the most unaccouriable transaelion of the whole ; and he could not bear to shut his eyes agairst such a circums7ance ; and the only setisfaCtion they were to have upon this. sees. that " private honour and personal convenience . ' would not suffer hits to reveal that transaltion. Taking the whole of the question into consideration, lie gave his hearty concurrence to the impeachment. Mr. CANNING observed, his lion. Friend (Mr. Bunks) had thought he aw a solution of all these difficutties, by the precedents he had adverted to, none of which could possibly bear in any manner upon the present case, which was totally diFtreee; that of Lead Heli(ere was be no meant applicidsho and that of the Duke of Merlhoieugh 'tie less so_ la t h e present case, the TIE one took these steps which His Majesty thought were in the contempt:se lion t. earliament ; and what was at that time ea eiressly enders ood to be the utmost of their inten tions. An attack had! been made on his Noble Friend ',Lord Cesthoregh) ler adverting to decisions of the Ithetiee on this question.', upon a former right ; but he had sat long enough in that House to know, that any Menthrt may advert to cases which hey* already been before the House.. Viscount ye.rerday had made some admissions to the House" which were completely misunderstood: if the ilciaie intended to carry the iJea, that Viscount Melville Jid connivent MeTrottersconduet, andthat he did suffer aim to violate the laws, it was an erroneous opini..n. What was to be the construaion put upon the ques tions and answers before the Commissioners of Neva' Inquiry upon that admission ? Was it not to he in ferred from his evidence, that he only intended Mr. Trotter should draw for the amount of the assign ments ? was not thin the sense and meaning of t ie expression ? If then this WAS the sense in which that admissson was to he taken, it was peitt liarly unfortmate for the Gentleman who sup ported these charges, and it would become him for his own consistency sate to take some o;s -portunity to c!ear it. He did not admit that a breach and violation of the law had taken plate what he had admitted was that he did allow Mr, Trotter to draw out the amount of the assignnasnive This certainly was no legal violation of the law; thw money was drawn from the Bank of Engle.,.i legal purposes, and lodgel in the Bank of sioers. Coutts, for the purpose 4,f public convenient: Mr. Couttes Bank had been substituted tor the iron chest in his own office, and not as • Bank. It was well kown to persons conversant with the bu siness, that a certain sum of :way must be made in daily payments ; and if it were asked waether the money were !Ater in the iron chest, or At the Banking -house, he had no hesitation in saying it Was eater is the latter. iscount Melville w. • wholly unconscious of the circumstaeces until the 'I enth Report came out. He ontended, that so new teas had transpired, and. if not, there were no grounds toe further proceeding.-.-- The Right Hun. Gentleman expressed great sum% pnse that the House should, for a monitor. rare- Lein the idea of punishing a man twice for the same offence, which WAS contrary to the law and consti tution of England ; and that, he insisted, had been done in the case of my Lord Melville Ile ad verted. particularly, to the two motions of this evening. The Brat, he said, was very fairly and can didly opened by the Hon. Gentleman who broight it forward (Mr. Whitbread), who had stated the &stir& objets of impeachment, by which the Noble Viscount would, at one glance, see with what he was charged, and, cf course, against what he had to contend. He compared and con trasted this with the motion of the Right Honour able Gentleman behind him (Mr. Bond), and hi thought the former inarn:lo7 m:)re tavuarable _ Right his e service of his es alett , must be so P times so Perilous hment ;, e snipe-ac, ;az s peeches. r n a - h - Crn again witt , return* Upon eferable cool cd Yr nt Melvi uns Seaer himself d th the views as „Idse'recov ere • eeeable to the r aa an y punishrn th-lem• More than - gaed altea tre e in egs la require its t these" gro unds, a lis u e nsitting tt l it equally. advert the Ainenoment• Mr. G KEY sai that the preseat: ge ed already, h ;•l o sv to go to; delivered t s . it ed O f two part ssail a charge aga well-earned com wad with want House in the cot occas i on ask, ho' acquired so mite make it recessai dußions ? His possess both are greatly apprehet him, if he without having on hi. side. It vowed them in ; only oh:se& is wl &snag them to count Melville I; which he added civil law to be 7. sums embezzlec la a General C ate the Tenth I mint Melville Bat in that he who !we ground that M a proposition I count, by civil • tins. His H • et this manceits inc procecdint produalve of ▪ same motion, another Hon. was always the vide, and whc a areareA in tscount an , a civil pros:cc • eel that the st would have b a a y man of f • Eve been et I wrongs I • c was fat it w rre many it alc, and of e l vorre only n rachment i count Melvil • than was ex .14 before him. et without evid se misaions of 1. It ter, of the 1 nt to rest apt dice, and be it WAS eels re which was r d, or the coun ld nishment w the offence it was to he as participatio se If money tc re account of tI• writ of Pris hitherto 171 ily That these his public, wa te, admitted h he hundred ; fa- of the mos sk Mr. Troot ct was a use() Solt come re: which wa iu that it ha he the same tit' Mr. Trot Ise, With resp bed could has >de himself ac per Mr. Trs,: re- private as a a tiee, in c de- lary. nto Was aWal nance Cc ; of he made ta the order 1113 both the fb which he no COMMeSC nsi- stration ; iich year onl he was app SS lance to sot joined. tl rain a fired the fits s but ally Melville I in- year to baJ 14INCeS V aliSCoollt . between tint; eat then eve U h l evict their whole hi dulent • , 1,1 to Caac Home, triongnt the rortuci 1......,... M. It Viscoant Melville. The /fight Flon. Gentleman elation behind him had commenced his speech with de- -1 think daring his great predileftion fix and admiration o. address the bows of jurisprudence in this council, and, 26 3 •.