The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-01-27 00:00:00

Lord Viscount Wellington. The victory of Tale. .'era was of all others conspicuous, and he trusted •t would meet their unanimous approbation. Earl GREY said, he rose to state to their Lord ships the grounds upon which he objected to the present motion. If, as had been represented by a able Lord, it was true, that the victory of Tala vera was of that brilliant and decisive nature, and attended with all the advaidages which were the re sult of the most distinguished and successful battles fought by our ancestors—if it was true, that its im mediate cousrquences were not o 1 a dubious, but positive henefit ; to withhold an acknowledgment, would, is his opinion, be an act of inexcusable in justice. He did noteolue forward to deny the pro nriety of rewarding !military service ; far from it ; the soldier should always have the applause his .er vicesentitled him to--the approbation of his country, s vying its consciousness of his exertions by the ex pression of its gratitude. The conduct of France, rewarding the. efforts of the warrior, nerd not have been instanced ; it would have been much more material to the purposes of the Noble Lord. if he had shewii that the event of the victory was such as to stamp it with particular tiection. He did not pretend to deny, that when • signal victory was obtained, it was impolitic to in quire minutely into the previons circumstances at tending the conduct of the commanders. .Many of those whose characters for military fame were highly exalted, had acquired those characters rather by rashness and intemperate intrepidity, than by the exertion of any other q isalincations. It was easy to give instances of such valour. Whew an army was .ed into those difficulties. from which, without an ef fort of desperatioii, it cannot free itself; such au ef fort would be au act o f onitioczt. as well es of reason. . . combining personal defence with patriotic affectinn. The battle of Aginconec was an iustance of such va lour; but the immediate rerult of that victory was by no means disputable. The enemy was repulsed, the security of England was established. His Lord ship again stated his repugnance to cuter into a mi nute examination of the contlurt which preceded a brilliant victory; hut that of Talavera was exempt from snch a consideration. Me begged leave to ask the meaning of a decisive victory ? Was it itot that in which were added to the repulse of the enemy, the glory and great advantage of the victorious; and were these consequences arisiug from the battle of Talavera? Nei—Was then Lord Wellington to reeeive the aektiowledgment. of that House—the testimony of its approbation—for services which he aever had rendered, fur silirmitages which never had been received ? The Nettle Earl said, it was not his intention to enter into the pulitics of the ex pedition. He would only touch briefly upon the nature of it, and .he expel:gat' from it. A Noble Earl had said, that Lord %VI-11441mi'. prat move ments were made for the purpose of diverting the enemy ; that this obj•fet failed, but the attempt was not without its good effects. It certainly did I'M!, and the attempt was certainly umorolitable. It was stated, that, by the battle of Talavera, the ;regrets of the comity was stopped. • That, previous to that battle, the enemy had possession of those situations, from which, for the security of our allies. it was tie emery to drive them away. This was the time for the efforts of the British, for the security of the Spanish ; bat here was the intrusion of failure and calamity—tato such hope was realized. But were the French such mighty sufferers after the battle t were they destitute of all the necessaries fur a campaign, end all the resources, from which oar army nas ex empted J This 10•06 reuty•dieted by the teetimsony of Lord Vlrellington himself ; who owned, that the enemy retired with die utmost order and reguierity. The Noble Lord had said, that another most deci sive victory would have heen gained, had it not been for the advance of another army to the ateistant a of the vanquished. This was rather improbable, as might appear from the eircumadastee i that the enemy had taken several prisoners, and that we had none. Upon the whole, after examination, it was evident, that judging, whither from the ob jects of the campaign, or from the results of the conduct of it, this was not a brilliant and decisive victory. It was the duty of Government, when ever disasters were crowded upon au arms, to in. quire into the oreasions of those disasters, and to ascertain whether the charge was Untamable to in evitable calamity, or to the mistakes of ill-judging and hot-headed Corot/minders. But what was the consequence of the battle of Talavera ? the vic torious army. after having routed the enemy, was • - obliged to retreat with such precipitatio n , th at the sick and wounded were abandoned to the foe.—. Was this no disaster I With respect to the skill exhibited in the battle by Lord Wellington, he had very great doubts of it. A Noble Lord had said, that a position on the left :was secured, and the heights recovered by our troops but this was no proof of that military skill represented as so transcendent ; another criterion. by which the ex tent of this skill ass to be estimated. was the su perior numbers of the enemy, which were stated to he doubly greater than our army ; it would have been much more caudid to say. that the combined army of the Spanish and their allies, was of vastly greater extent than that of the amity. Was it meant. that the Span ands were so isnoevile as to render their co-operation of no value, or so base as to refuse assistance in a cause ma !weguent with their own destiny? It was an aggravation of the dis asters which had befallen the country. that justice was not done to that people; if the returns were looked into, it would be found that twelve hundred i of the Spanish were killed sod wouuded. at that battle; they, therefore, must have been unfairly treated; they had fought with valour and resolu tion. Had Lord Wellington advanced to Madrid, with strength and success, he would have been ex empt from any charge. The Noble Earl then stated the refusal of Lord Wellington to make a junction with Sir Robert Wilson's troops, when re quired by the Spaniards. After having spoken to considerable length, he said it was impossible for him to undervalue that reward, *which, if thus aiswied, would be attended with the worst con sequences, and therefore he would not concur with the present motion. Lord Mouirrsov rose to correct a tnistake which had been made with respect to what he said relative to the security of Portugal. The Marquis Wlttast.te said, that his situa tion was peculiarly trying ; lie stood forward to de fend the character of a dent and honoured brother, f he wet unsucces,ful, could Out have jii.tly forfeited -his claims to universal admiration. His talents had been touter-rated, and his conduct in Portugal. where he was adored, misrepresented. A Noble Tail, who had spken, did not seem to have u just idea of the object of Lord Wellington's operations. I:s object was to effect the deliver auce of Portugal. and the operations were, in the opiuion of the country in general, ably and rapidly conducted. He conceived, that, to attack Victor's army ou the frontiers, would be the most effectual step to accomplish its defence, and accordingly adopted it. Much had been said of delay, but there was no unnecessary delay ; and he contended, that, as a military officer, he had exhibited wisdom and dis cretion. fps case had been compared with that of Sir John Moore, to which it bore no resemblance ; it was unjust to compare them. The situation of Spain was differently circumstanced, when they both led their armies into it. territory. During Lord Wellington's march, the country was inca pable of affording supplies to his army; and ano ther subject of complaint was, that he could nei ther find a Spanish army, nor Spanish Generals to co-operate with bum. Ile was under the necessity of attacking with his own forces the united forces of Victor and Setnstiani. He had advanced into Spain in pursuit of Victor, who fled before him, until he was joined by the army of him who called himself the King of Spain. Ilia object was not to march to Madrid, 'but to co-operate with Cuesta for the purpose of expelling the eneiny,.and by that means accomplishing the protectirio of the country. and defeating the views of the enemy. —Was there any way, he would risk, of defend ing Poi tugs!, without opposing Victor ? After the battle of Totowa, his Lor d ship applied to Ge neral Cuesta for assistance, to follow 'op the victory; but his proposal was unhappily refined, in consequence of the directions of the Junta to their Officer; by this means the enemy effected their escape. If then he did meet with such refusal,wiiirlil it be possible that, if he appeared at that bar with such a fact, the Hussite could refuse him their thanks and gratitude I The country to whose as sistance he was sent Lad suffered moth, nor was it in the power of one sintle effort to re-establish it, broken as it was into different provanees, and sur rounded with numerous disadvantages. Lord GRI114•1 Lte considered that the Ministers were principally to blame fur 'eliding Lord Wel lington iota a hostile country, without the neces sary force or equipment. He had no inclination to object to his Lordships character for valour. but he could not conceive that the qualification of ca. lour was all that was necessary in a General. As he did not consider the battle of Talavera a decisive victory, nor entitled to the appellation of a victory at all, he should certainly oppose the thanks to Lord WelliugWn ; at the seine time, (rein the bravery displayed by the troops, he would vote for any txpression of ■pprobatiou to all the other 0r 1i...v.6 commanding in that action. The motion was then carried ; after which the House adjourned. NOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Rory gave notice, that he would more for the Report of the Cummosiouers appointed to improve the .scion from %Titatiniuster 11.11 to the Treasury. Sir .1 onS N [wrong brought in a Rill for preventing the meihersleenent of the public towiley on sceorit oes Mr. loviumfore tamed fora Report of the datiis open Promissory Notes, from the atliJatruary, twg , up to the latest period to which they could he supplied...—f:ranteil. PRIVATE RILLS. Mr. • . stated, that, with respect to Private Bilk, there woold lie a slight alteration in the practice, this Session. The mottos would be manumit to be given earlier: be would more, "That the Howse should re 'viva no petitions wpm privets bill. after the @pill of ftbreary ; that it shoukf mei.* two privets Bills der the 59th of klatch ; and nu report not sun l, after the 7th of May." Mr. Ross thowelit that the strictorsa of the Notice might operate to the injury of those who lived to • remote part • of the country, Lorin the effect of taking them by sur prise. 311% PERCRI•IL INK that, whenever such soles occurred, and were properly isplaised, there would of courro be relaxation la such itmeaoces.—The motion was agreed to. Mr. Banes porporied his notice fur the j;irpetuation of the Revenioo 14,11, as the Noble Lord hating the claim of precedence, nes rrsolvird to bring forward his notice this night. He- felt, however, some relectswee in rio doing, ma the Bill expired in six weeks. Mr. PSIROCV•L reared the Hoe. Centimes, that ewes if tits Dill should expire before his 'notion was carried, the Government would take no step to defeat the object of Its provisions. LORD GAMBIER'S VOTE OF THANKS. Lord Cotnitatre observed, Hod, ooderstaaduig it to be the istetition of Ministers to move fora vote of thanks to Lord Gambier, he should mote," That the ominous of the Court !Martial should he laid before the House en Monday next." He was proceeding to offer sodas comment, upon the subject, wbee the irauser:a reminded his Lordship that t►e preseat was not the stage i■ which to discuss the write of the question. Mr. Poxson sr hoped, that, a the motion of thanks to Lord Gambier would come forward before the l'iohk Lord would have on opportunity of acting upon his satire, he would he permitted to offer some observatious is the preemie stage. PCIICIVAI. was willing to allow the selliellee of the C.ourt Martial to be produced at once, hut a Notion fur the minutes was of Ito muc► importance to he discussed without previous notice. . . . 51r Ts seggrinerl, that the Right Hon. Gentler/MR e►odd move the thanks to Lord Gambier, until the Noble Lord (Lied Cochran.) brought forward his motion. Lord CYC AAAAA was agate proceeding tro oopoorok, bet was spin iaterrupted by the Jere mrm, who informed ►im, that Meade) neat, being the day appointed the his motion, *veld be the time for melting big obwervatione. SUPPLY. The Lords Commissioners' speech being read. Mr. Paac•vsl. moved the House to grant the supply to His Majesty. Mr. Castver begged leave to offer • few words upon some points in the speech, before he gave his vote for the supply. He observed, upon that part slit which cougretutated the House upon the pros perous and flourishing state of the commerce of the country. that it was at present conducted upon a system which must he ruinous in the end ; he alluded to the system of licenses. With respect to India. which formed so large a considenttion in the revenue of this country. the House had not heard of it for four years, and then it was re minded of its existence, by an application for a loan. He way told that it was shortly again to apply fors loon of two millions; sod he wished to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. whether such was really the 'mention ? He had also !nerd that the Company was shortly to apisly to Polio meat for the renrool of its charter. He hoped there would be no hesitation on the part of Ministers to make such comtnnulFatioos to the Howie. and that the House would not regard with apathy a business so truly interesting. There was an additional rea sou for such inquiries now, as the East India Com pany charged Lord Wellesley witb much of their' disasters, and as his Lordship was now, in a cer tain degree, a master over them, in his capacity as Cabinet Minister. • _ Mr. Ross said, that, under the system of licenses, of which the Hon. Gentleman so much complained, the exports of the country were greater by millions thia they had ever been before. He would allow, that the course of exchange was against us, but he should not now go into a detail of the causes, as an important motion was to come cm ; if the time per mitted, he had little doubt of proving, to the satis faction of the Hous,,that it was not owiug to the state ofour commerce. He believed hecould relieve, even the Hod. Gentleman), stall his alarm, either respect mg the commerce or the maunfacturesof the country. As to the abuses to which the system of licenses might be liable, he could only say. that the Board entrusted with the direction of that department, had taken every means to prevent them; and he had wily heard of one instance, in which a mer chant, who had obtained a license for himself, sold it to another. Mr. Pear:twat was willing to allow, that, as a system in tune of peace, licenses would be highly objectionable; but it was a happy circumstance to observe, that one of the expedients to which they were driven, in tinienf war, was encoded with such happy consequences, that the trade, during the sys tem of licenses. flourished more than they hail any instaliv. of in the history of the world. He could state, that, exclusive of bullion, the trade had ex ceeded, by 7 millions, the product of any former period, during the most prosperous war ; and by 10 inillions during the most prosperous peace ; yet this system. under which they had experienced such . increase, they were called upon to discontinue. With respect to the East India Company. this was not the time to enter into any discussion upon that subjeet ; wod as to the application for a renewal of the Charter, as that was a matter not in the choice of Govertimerrt, but at the option of the Company itself, he could at present give no information upon it. He was sure, however. that Gentlemen would not object to pledging the House to supplies, the amount and extent of which they would have an opportunity of canvassing at a Future day. He hoped they would not object to his appointing Monday. Mr. ileum' could not help thinking it a disad vantage, notwithstanding all he had heard. that a man could not now import or export as lac chose. As far as the Orders in Council operated, he was confident their operation was injurious ; nor did he see any great cause tir exultation to the Govern ment, that the country had recovered itself limn their °meanies. These was one great leading in cooveineam. under the system of licenses, which he could not help thinking of peat importance ; and that was. not its hare exposure, but its liability to abuse and corruption. He could state one fact to the House, in broader terms than the Right l lon. Gent. opposite had stated it. A license was actually sold by our merchant to another. for one thousand pouuds. He did not mean to insinuate that the Board cf Trade would he influenced by pecuniary conaideretions ; but, without touching money, they might secure votes, and make the political senti ments of the applicants for licenses, the criterion of their claims, and the measure of their mimesis.— (4 lent front some of the Members as she Treasury iirmeat). The Right Hon. Gentlemeo must in .deed be young in trade, if they did not knew. that these who had something to give, had something to • xpect in return. (Hear And altitc.sigh possibly no merchant, who made application. would inert with a direct refusal, there was a practice in private life, of which the Board might avail itself—that of being oat to him. when he called. Meer . 1 ) He did nut mean to charge the Government with any such practices : but when they took,c►edit to them selves for more than they were entitled to, he thought it only fair in him to state what had hap pened, that they might see every thing was not the result of their own cleverness and dexterity. Mr. PKRCSVAL, in explanation, said, that the Right lion. Gentleman had so far mistaken what he said, as to misrepresent bias entirely. lie did not represent the present system as the best possi ble, whether is peace or war ; on the contrary, he had said that the system was bad, though, happily for us, successful; neither did he desire to take all the honour to himself. Mr. Ross, in explanation, said, that he bad never represented licenses es the best system, nay more than his Right Honourable Friend. As to the ob jection that license might be granted to persons professing particular sentiments. to the exclusion of others, be could say, that he had never made the slightest difference between gentlemen on such an account he granted them indiscriminately to all, and no merchant iu London, he was persuaded, could say otherwise. Mr. Ponsonny said, that if he had not heard the Right Honourable Gentleman's declaration. he would have supposed that a difference was made. He would have supposed so. because it was natural ; and from all he had seen of the present Ministry, he was not inclined to suppose them exempt from the frailties of human nature, fled he not heel) told the contrary. he would hare supposed thst they would pay great attention to the politics of the sp plieants, and more attention to their enemies than to their friends. Hear.) The success of our trade was attributable to other causes than the imposition of licenses, or the wisdom of Administration. The trade was reduced, not invigorated, by their nisa 041fPl. Slr. *zoo gill thought, that the Right Hon. Gen tleman exemplified, pretty clearly, the distinction between wit and memory. He was in the habit of affording perpetual instances of his wit, but he had just abeam, that, when he drew upon his memory for aid, that faculty won not so much at his command. Ile had hazarded en assertion, that the trade of the country was reduced by the Orders in Council; whereas, the fact was, that it had been aligns nt be fore the passing of the Orders, but since that pe riod had revived and flourished. The Right Him. Gentleman also ascribed the present aucce.s to a residsion, to the Walcheren Expedition, and the Austrian war. Ile was the first who had done en.— lie stated, that he did not smears! the Bean! of Trade. fie, he did not incase it ; Ina he uhil what was leas manly, he insinnided against it *hat would probably go to the public as eget. Ai to th,-• Ne. lections that had been 'scribed to them, no. it y eishlng `state. of- o our. c,uatmerce prtd th, .bideri&iir been" steldcßins co-extensits c, • resole coiniderciiilintetigt. t•-• Mr. Poosottox asititrkd the Hon. .Centb ra , that he never meant to ascribe the lIUUCf.4 „i trade to the Wakkeren expedition. Tht Gentipman would therefore rev, that thcie %.$ lestaaßaother member in the House as deticie u t , memory as himself. lough s ) Mr. WHITBREAD concurred in the opiitioat the Hon. Gentletnan had proved his memory hl dtfective ; but he had at the same time imagination to be extremely vigorous, ah m could force itself into the supposition that ant is, could have ascribed the success of our trade to t Walcheren expedition. laugh.) lie s o 0 , those who believed that the worst consequencesh resulted from the Orders in Cosiacil—the trade kept alive by relacitions and departures from tit. As to the partiality which the system of beets admit*, he bad no doubt upon it; but ke traitor,. to give credit to the desertions of Minitte.., t h t , partiality was observed in the gronting„ol far above the ordinary weaknesses vf were they. Perhaps, however, be could stout stances of the conduct of past tittles, which Aid proceed upon the some liberal ptinciple. lle, membered that, in the case of the - restraint api the importation of lark, the Wasters greeted license tonne merchant, who wall a kleother dtl Howse of Commons. at Imo to report saidi. did not stet« confidently that it waste: hat if was, what could be sail to Ministers she bd, conducted themselves? lo the vaatterolui t eci had heard that it was also applied for. The lb Gentleman seemed to think that the whole sa cantile Interests were with them in therm" He, as father of the Orders in Casual, mg naturally think so—(Here the liesn.(;ent. Wen dissent.) lie knew that the child was alcart toed his door. and he thought he had mime the in. (A lang.'s). It had formerly been send, tar whole Body of merchants was with the Date. Portland's Administration. He could cm, to ewer. for his part. be without his apprehension,a der the present system, when he saw it halite to abused by • corrupt Government; the preseet,l hoped, would not long exist, incorreptiLle st might represent itself. Ir. Rose knew of no such licensees that triii the Hon. Gentleman had stated. Mr. WitscairoaLs disapproved of the semi tions as much as any malt ; but he revenges that the Government dill Dot peek** to pedal the exportstton of bark ; they oily provided stec its being exported exclusively ; they wished to nee the condition of purchasing other comets of our trade to the purchase of that. A. ut posts, bt!ity of invidious selection% it was soo airs& t• he denied ; and it was a mo s t unhappy ma stance, which it became the House of COIMPOSI watch with peculiar jealousy; but at the ease es there was Ho sound at present to attach theist tation to the (ioverneattot ; fee how evrihi the lirti account for the general success of tied', if them tam of selection mud preference had bees acirdu It was evident (rout this, that, as vet, it vas ar perverted to any bad purposes—he slateirleArari however, regard it with serious jealousy. Sir Joao Nli4brOal said, that many erilsitete knowledge, grew out of the system of liaise. A the merchants in the oat-ports, palmated! 1 of Ireland, found the worst of consequences tea milt. Fair snide w.is excluded by it, and ttl gainblong spurn littritillieril 1101041 g the 'Tail which it should he the ohjectof every country tars courage. By nieaus of this system the node • coriGned to the metropolis ; the merchants resides there had all opportunity of knowing when luta were to be granted, while those who were mores mote. were held in ignorance. On the part old mercantile body, therefore, which lie had the nour to represent, he made this complaint tat which he should go into ,sore minutely at ture day. Mr. Summit said, that it was the enemy obi shat the door against our commerce, sod are u Orders in Council. With respect to partialimi the merchants made any complaint to that eifie it would form a heavy charge indeed 'pilot I Ministers; but if that was not the case, and if i prosperity of the trade was too extensive la ma tenarice the suspicion, Government should 01 credit foe their conduct. Mr. BA at No expressed his regret that seal system could not be abolished; en rigidly ow I acted on, that' a weasel could scarcely sail for country without license. He was surprised to from the Honourable Gentleman oppesalei lisps the only Member in the Board of Trade • knew any thing about trade, that the Order. Council were the support of the trade. The Ord . in Council were. in fact, effectually repealed 1, ) I last Act, Aimee which it began to prosper• could not see how the advantages of the fr'T 4 year could be ascribed to that measure. wh. , " sited the year before lost. They had bee° ron:t . pealed. to every ce 11111 l erciel purpose, alal.frel t '' repeal.- out from the enforcement. they , dote the success. As to the t:ounirrof melange the price of belhoo, which were ackeoebe he against us, they went to dew, that all was healthy at the butting. (Hear !J Ile would go any farther into the subject, as so ilepset debate was to succeed ; but at a time when • victories were not followed by success, it unnatural that ,hire should be great of trade. without auy right fonodation. Mr. Rosa gave notice, that he would Nisi:. Monday. for a Committee to 'Noire WI" ' state of the Imports and Experts. EXPEDITION TO Tin: SCHELDT. Lord Poeciissraa said, that when. at d i et' of a former inert, lie gars nonce of his moo was his intention to propose a Committee to .04 int° the t of the whole rainpeign togrite lint he 11.'11 *once thought it n e cessary.. lB : prove thetwinit :11% 314,1 ) "M irra more distinctly, to 'Merlotti' sb militrate l a g sn . the circomstnners of each canipsegm 11 ," .ir* which pun:calm invei.iigation. the priers' "IT ;uu might Le mgde, sod the con•aaNK's t with therefore, upon the present Weira.. o . 14.4 10 ,. ft ro-ldrratiois to the inipsditio:i t• rhe '"c he lint been stated by . a Noble cuncerned io them tramsactioisa, t;nti ".e I, lltri Europ