The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-04-27 00:00:00

L I +~::.~ "MR "T, ( • i sjoil Cot litTO" ; 4111. I Wen of Stt of tilt ect arca Pet i6l .hor Lag lons C :rutri tom 10 , 1' o.)e t l mot I:or.§ I vat re 1141 r. Coro INV! a cone lb IMP Ile h bow to rn cane the p be pr read; the pcnt• 1 its Cut i ern, to le ray ore order IA &bar Total re. Nob! Ate T 1 ter T 1 torn Lou he Wilt label Artit ur„ table hem O•osei r. those Est Lo a a! of 5, rid o. et tic c. be di et is Prtw is oriel IQ tsuu that owe cot 1 woui• rre Cut Tt notie of al norm It bre of th Nobl elicit hare Cote 1: • d t peci was vino pr.% prey a al qua His tiori elf tl be 14 us, of Cr hem c.igh tiree spec Wee Nett to for had nada eos ate rmg d,:ty Meat duty to di Po:itt occil iT.po effect /et )`,r . a f(.l, c•ino rot[ • r'.; No. 6,989. PARLIAMENTARr INTELLIGENCE. HOUSE OF LORDS, TursDAY, Aram 2S. cou witnesses were heard at their Lordships' bar in the caul Bloom v. Fitx,e 4 hbon. Bin w Courtenay, Mr. Mansfield, Mr. Blithank, Mr. Chap. bi i n , a nd other Members of the House of Commons, brought up we nd private Bilk, which were read a first time. EQUITABLE LOAN BILL. Earl GROSVENOR presented a petition from the inhabitants of Stockport and its vicinity, in the county of Chester, in favour of t h e Equitable bon Bill. Ills Lordship observed, that the sub rct o s , i ore to which he had not paid much attention, but if the arcanatonces connected with it were such as were described by the pe i t i ne rs, he was convinced it was well worthy of the attention of lardshipad on the table. Lod SCCFIELD presented a similar petition horn certain per sons confined within the rules of the King's Bench prison ; another : him those within the rules of the Fleet prison ; and another from l i re confined within IVhite.crosastrect prison. The Noble Idol observed, that the petitioners were well qualified to judge of o, e merits of this Bill. They stated that they hail suffered mate- N aly from the frauds of pawnbrokers. and they hoped that Parlia ment In Its wisdom would it: future effectually prevent the imposi tons of those persons. The petition from the prisoners confined Tao the n rules of the Kieg's Bench prison contained no less th a n s ignes.—Laid on the table. A similar petition liras por hy the Earl of TANKER VILLE, from the weavers of .'oitaltields.—Laid on the table. The Earl of LAUDERDALE presented a petition from the su gar bakes of the city of London agn , nst the Equitable Loan Bd. The Na da-Earl said that he would Oka advaneOgc 0 4:_or present opportunity to state to the ITetlie at 'What oblige, mittrl u ,do what circumstances, the Equitable Loan Bill at the present moment stood. It had been read a first time, but no one had been yet found to propose Its second reading. He was anxious in the ratan time to lose no opportunity of showing how far this society was an ev:l society, and with that view he had movea for copies of Certain papers, which their Lordships had since ordered to be pouted; and he hoped their Lordships would see the impolicy of pmcreling farther, until those papers had been printed and laid mpg the table of the House. As many of the petitioners prayed to be heard by Counsel at the bar against the Bill, he should cer tainly more that they be so heard; and if they succeeded in makingout their case, and in proving that this society was an evil satiety, be felt assured that none of their Lordshir. would be disposed to acquiesce in the plan for its incorporation; based, if the establishment of this society should be proved to be illegal, and standing in the same situation as the convention in Ireland, which their Lordships had so recently put down, a , a matter of course it became impossible that their Lord slops could agree to its est.sblishinent. On a question of so much importance, and of so interesting a nature. he should cerrainly move the attendance of the Judges, with a view to putting several costions relative to the law. in order that the time of their Lord abipi, which was so valuable, might not be needlessly expended. He had felt it necessary to make these observations, in order that tleir Lordships, as well as those who were absent, might be aware boo the case really stood. Lord DACRE said, that he did not wish at the present moment to press the Bill to a second reading, in consequence of the chrum. ranee alluded to by the Noble Carl. He supposed, however, that the papers which, on the motion of the Noble Earl, were ordered to be printed, were not very ycluminotot, and that they would be soon rode to bi t before the House. He should be glad to know from the Noble Earl by what tints he thought those papers would be printed. The Earl of LAUDERDALE in reply observed, that from tide nature, those papers would be necessarily voluminous. and Cut it must be some time before they went ready. He could, bole ro, assure their Lordships, that so far front wishing to delay the crew , of the Bill, he ass most anxious to hare it fairly and fully cruised, and to have the best and soundest opinions upon it, in tedet that the public might be aware of its merits or demerits. Log DACRE said, that at all events for the present he would abstain from again bringing the question before the House, and would rtgulate his so doing according to the convenience of the Noble Earl. . . . The petition wu then laid upon the table. The 31arquis of BATH prrsented a petition from the manufac turers and tradesmen of the city of Bath, in favour of the Equitable Loan Bill, and a similar petition from a town in the county of Wilts.—Laid on the table. Lord DACRE presented a petition to the same effect, from the inhabitants of Whitechapel.-I.aid on the table. Lord ROLLAND presented a petition Timm the Mechanics and AMIN.' of Hammeninith Ned Kensington. in fsveur of e l e ui table Loom 8 111; • p/d DOW the front th 1. ham, and *nattier tram those of e.sea. The observed that he should give no opinion on the Kubject to which those petitions referred but be should reserve the declaratinn of his sr....tnents upon it until the question enure regularly brfore the lime.—The petitions were laid upon the table. CORN LAWS. Lord 31 ELVILLE presented • petition from Edinburgh, against is thermion in the Corn Laws.—Laid on the table. Toe tlarl of ROSEBEHRY observed,itT;ithe country was rich indebted to a Noble Friend near him, for starting the subject (the Corn Laws, and to the Noble Earl opposite for stating that he did not intend to propose any alteration In dime laws during the present Session. He (the Earl of Boseberry) held, however. the opoion, that it was impossible to coctinue those laws as they now noted, but he was not prepared to deliver his sentiments as to tint change ought to be made. He hoped that another Session would not be allowed to palm, without having some defined and per anaentrneasure ; and that their Lordships, in their decision, would rot be guided by an attention to this interest or the other, but wouidiegislate for the common good of aIL The Noble Earl then inserted a petition from the inhabitants of the county . of Ross. sib by the Lord Lieutenant and by several of the Mag istrates of fat county, against any alterations in the Corn Laws. The rotation was laid on the table. The Marquis of L.INSDOWN said, he rose pursuant to the notice Ile had yesterday given, to present a petition in favour of au alteration in the Corn Laws. As it was signed by a very numerous and a most respectable portion of the community, he felt h Ins duty to call their Lordships attention to it. In consequence oldie question pot by a Noble Earl last night. the opinions of the Noble Earl opposite, sad of several other Nnble Lords had been etched, which, If they had not then been given, would probably bare been so on the presentation of this petition. It would be there for unnecessary for him to go at - length into the question now. But I • duty to the petitioners required him to make some observations the subject- It ruse him peculiar pleasore in presenting this petaion, considering it as the petition of a great body, for it con tused r.early 6.000 names, and among them were the signatures of Knott, if cot all, the merchants and bankers of the city of London, to perceive that Parliament. in proposing some alteration in the plaint system of the Corn Laws, were acting in something like it contaeretee in the wishes of the people. It was therefore with perulkir pleasure that he presented the petition. The petitioners prayed far an alteration in the Corn Laws, but on the principle of a ileetai;t• for some protecting duties, as they knew that in conse verice of the extent of the taxes some protection was necessary. Kit own oninirn was, that at some pericd or other, such an altera tion soul.t be inevitable, but he agreed that at the present period ° I the 1.1. e 41 0"• it would be unwise to propose it, although he was eiktriaced that it could not with safety, even to the landed interests, korgddayed It would be impossible to keep the question 1' had that with an avowed intention of changing it, for any length of Cate, without considerable inconvenience to the landed interests. Drente it was impossible to say how soon an unprofitable season right occur, shirt would raise the prices to Mt. and this would rece the admission of foreign corn into the market, which would spec...ay lower them down to 405., or perhaps 305., and thus pro dr:e a violent emulsion. He certainly did not expect such an oc currence, and there as kw probability that the porta would be open t foreign produce since the measure recommended by the (Javan had taken place—that of admitting into the market corn from Ca nada, as well as that now in bond. But such a circumstance ‘ , 311 not beyond the reach of probability, because the course er Nature and of Providence might visit us with such an action : so long at we were liable to this affliction, we were in 40 get.of this revulsion; and against such a revulsion it was the O.4ty o: the mercantile interests., the lamled proprietors. and Paella trtot, to guard. In reference to what had been stated by the Noble Jul.. (Liverpool), he would observe, that he did not think a fixed (boy would be so liable to alteration as that Noble Earl appeared is think, in consequence of the necessity that might arise out of poetical events. The Noble Earl had stated, that if a war should I ocon the difficulty would be extreme, and that indeed it would be I iTeolaible to continue any thing like a fixed duty. But the very effect of this war wo u ld r e move th e e v il anticipated, as it would )::re to the merchant an opportunity of making higher profits by l,s freght, and be beneficial Rothe landed proprietors. as it would !:oz, gloater iLlfietilties in the way of exportirg foreign corn. • refine it would not be necessary eve this ease se. make any alter. in the system, when ones that permanent system had been -'• , Picd. He felt it necessary to make a few observations ri a tubject connected wish this question. It had been pub ! stated, that to the agitation which this subject had under. loot. in this and In the other House was owing the variation anti de. t: . 'Sion in the exchange which had for some time taken place. • ' ::ad very high and unexceptionable authority tor stating that • variation and de pression in the exehange had taken place before the question was agitated. This agitation might err t.o; lo hose &mired to depress the exchange, but it certainly was rOl th e cootie. The cause originated in the extensive speculation and other foreign produce. Ile had now discharged his ' •is the petitioners. During the next Session he would , neur in the views of any Noble hoed who would en. •. duce their Lordships to enter upon this subject, with to the interests of all parties, a, d without the endue .f any one. With reference to the respectability of the - iers. and to the importance of the matter to which they re. he begged that the petition might be read. It stated their to proper, able, and respectful language. petition from the merchants, bankers, shipowners, and • of the City of London. praying for a revision and an alter . •he Corn basts, was then read. of LIMERICK said, that he had but one observation loaoe on the subject before the House. He agreed with the ‘-, ,' ' ‘vmvir , f 7 ,' )r, . ,i&- 1 _,., /,, 4e_i_., / 6 ,2 4 ~,,, . , • _., ~ , . . - --,-- , ' (...*** 4:C.171. ;:' . . A .,,,... n o , :; ._ + rq• 'I- 1 1 - ...: t ill t 1 kw' - T i ll '....M1 1 1 : r i tt l ti , -: " : 11 . 1 4 I lir - C:liii 4..5 11 4- t 44 • • yft 4-_ , .. t utkoa ........,, 4 . . . . V 4 . Price 7d. therefore, both to debase the people, sweatier, the property wh)# was their support. When things were reduced to that stateemas it not indispensible to apply some remedial measure 7-111/feee.) ' The present one trenched on no right, nor did it interfere Is the flighted degree with present interests. Before entering more imme diately into a consideration of the preamble of the Bill, perhaps f , , would not be out of order to say a few weeds as to the real cha racter of an English freeholder. eome derive their right of voting frotn freeholds of 4th. a year; another 'dub are these enjoying an nuities for life of the same amount. Though the lows, as for as regards the first, were the same as in England, still the same cum. 1 plaints by no means. existed ; if there did exits complaints, they were confined to the tenants of Bishops' lands, and to thoacof a few of the oldest Catholic families in England; it was a mockery to say that the Irish freehorder possessed any real interest in the small portion of ground ihSch was cultivated by him. No, he dragged on a miserable exititen'est, deriving merely a scanty subsistence, little more than sufficient to support nature (hear) ; and though he swears to his being werth forty shillings a-year. in fact he had not an actual profiler so many pence; and for the payment ch* his exorbitant rent he is frequently distrained at sent to gaol. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He is obliged to at eepd periodically at the Sessions; for the purport of swearing that which he well knows and feels to be false—perjuring himself, too. that he may support persons whose principles, if behave the power l of thinking, he must despise. (Hear, hear.) In Englend none ref there corrupt practices prevailel; persona cognizant of the English system knew this well. It was usual, certainly, to can Vase the 1 mholders, and perhaps Nome littl e angry f ee li ng was *exciter:* *lien ;they were not personally solicited for their votes ; that could not be Alleged against them as a system of corruption ; it spoke their sallaltaess ; it wee: a strong demonstration of their honesty, and of the high:feeling of their own independence. (Cheers.) In Ireland It was highly dangerous to go near your opponent's recants, and 1 woe unto the man who dares to canvass them—fighting a duel was the inevitable consequen ce . (G reat laughter.) Indeed, he beard it was a "ruled point" inthe Irish Court of Las. (Much laughter, and cries of " No. no.") Well, then, in the Court of Honour. He knew it to he a fact, that iii the latter Court ft was a "ruled point" that no man was to canvass the tenants of another, and that such an act was to 'oe justified only at the pistol's mouth. Indeed he was told by the Honourable Member fur apiway (Mr. Martin), who was more acquainted than he was with the etiquette on melt such occasions, that the crime vas of so unjustifiable a nature ES to require the person committing i( to receive his adversary's fire, and not to return it. (Continued laughter.) To proceed to the ques tion, they had the evidence of Mr. Leslie luster, which went to show the corrupt state of the Irish forty shilling freeholders. Now that he had mentioned the evidence, he hoped most sincere] that it would be read by the English, and by the country at . l(Bear.) Any person not so d o i ng was not qualified ethe r to cons i ,r; the present question, or t h a t o f Catholic Emancipation. (Crie s of " Hear, hear.") The next evidence to which he a ll u d e d was T are that of Mr. Blake, t gentleman of considerable information, ant: whose opinion deserved the highest respect. That gentleman, in. answer to a question, whether the forty shilling freeholders exercise a free choice ? answer—Deckledly.not. And to another question he replies—that they were a mere ratiole. -Next in order came the evidence of Mr. O'Connell. (The Hon.. jllember then read the following extract fr om Mr. O'Connell's evieence.) " You hare stated that the usage generally in the counties you referred to was, that the tenants held by parol agreement, or by a written agreement, not recorded on stamped paper?-1 stated that as one of the ill effects of stamp duties upon tenures. " You are perhaps aware, that that has not operated very eater.- sively to the prevention of the registry freeholders, which can only be made upon stamped instruments ?—With respect to the registry of freeholders, there being landlords, having a particular etienulue to register freeholds, they would go to the expense of the stamp duty; and besides that, the tenant there is supposed allays to have an interest in the land, so that the case of traffic in freeholders is not applicable to my observation. I have Lumen, however, many freeholder* registered upon Unstamped, papa of late yeah t if the Inferior officer be in that interest, the thing May take place, and easily. " In cases of the creation of freehold interest on stamped paper, have you known any instances in which the freehold lease, though executed, has not been delivered over to the possession of ti c s tenant, but has been kept in the hands of the landlord ?—Yes, I have known instances of that, and the complaints of it are not at all unfrequent. "Arisingout of that, even in those cases where there is a stamped agreement between the parries, and where therefore the tenant has a legal instrument ascertaining and establishing his right, the same species of dependence which you have already alluded to still ~ subsists, if that instrument remains in the hands of she landl o rd ?—: ,f4Fr It does, and I have kn own it exerc i se d ; certainly to exercise it at ''''; all would be improper; but I have known it exercised very im properly. , "The Committee understand you to state, that you have known instances of freeholders being registered, wh,..ze the lea.es under which they were registered were on unstainped paper ?-I'es. " Can you state any ins•ances imwhich you know it of your own knowledge ?--I ern no: prepared to mention rounes it would be i:nposeible fur me to state particular instances; I have known the thing occur. "It is illegal, is it not P—lt must be illegal, because neither te , nitre nor contract for had ran be matio in Ireland Without a stamp. " Arc you aware that the certificate vwns that is is upon stamped paper ?—Yes, but that is recent. " Therefore the Clerk of the Peace would be the person who would be in fault ?--Since the Fusing of that Act, w.. eh is ezr. talnly a recent Act. _ Are you cf opinion that there is any great difficult , - In making registries of freeholds, without the business being very acairately performed a:carding to law ?—The greatest facility; the Clerk of the Peace can appoint his deputy, any man can be his deputy for the moment, and it is the easiest thing in the world to register free holds upon .the prescM system, without either freehold or valid to • t ute a freehold-s; there must be first tenure, that Is to say, a grant for a life or lives to constitute a freehold; in ostler CO registry there must be at the utmost such a rent u would lease the freeholder a profit of forty shillings a year. Now I hare known numerous instances, where, if a peasant was made to swear he had a freehold of forty shillings, he would have perjured himself in the grossest way and in those instances a friendly magistrate or two may very easily get into the room; an adjourn:mn of the Sessions for the purpose of registry is the easiest thing in the world, because the Act of Parliament gives validity to the registry. not withstanding an irregularity in the adjournment of the Sessions • therefore two Magistrates cast come together very easily, get th; Deputy of the Clerk of the Peace to attend, and the/ can register upon unstamped paper if they please. They can register with the life described in such away. that that life will be either dead or living, as they please, at the next elccion ; John Olhiscol or Ti.. mothy Sullivan, or am , thing of that kind. Frauds with reipect to the registry of freeholds are very considerable.' At the some time it would be an injustice to the Learned Gent. not to state that he farther uses the following words :—" But still it is, I take it, a very grrat advantage to the Irish peasant on the whole to have the power giren him of voting from a 401. freeholder." (Cries of " hear, hear.") .ttal who wutbere that did not feel thatthe great advantage of the Act of 1703. giving to the Irish freeholder the right to vote, was the having a large Catholic interest in that House. This wes a conclusion to which many had come. anti from which he did not dissent. To proceed with the evidence, Mr. Shed de scribes them as possessing a " mere semblance of authority." He says that " they trc driven in droves to it.e hosting§ to vote for the nominee of their landlord." Next comes the evidence of Mr. Hugh Wallace, a gentleman well aetinaintri with the country. He is a solicitor, conversant with the system in the counties of Down and Antrim--counties in which, be it remarked, the evil prevail' to a less extent than in an/ other part of Ireisod. The Honourable :II ember theu reatlthe following extract from the evi dence of Mr. Walhace " Do you think ant kindness is induced from the landlord to his tenantry, by the fart of their having those forty-shilling fre.holds? —I question very much it there is. " In some eases, does not it lead to acts of hardship upon the part of the landlord towards hie tenants, where the tenants refuse the Isndlord's solicitation for their vines ?—That I bare no doubt of. " Do you know in what manner some of the propnotors in Ire land are in the habit of controlling the votes of their tenants ?—I know two modes by which they harass the tenants who do not vote as they wish them to do. " you be good enough to state them ?—One is, preventing them from having bog grour.d, (the right of cutting, in the bop of the landlord, firing for the tenant,) which, in general, is not granted by the leases, but is an easement that they are Rennitted to enjoy by the landlords ; the other is, the compelling them, upon est arcs where it has always been allowed that half a year's rent should be in the P.nant's hands, to pay up that to the day it becomes due. "So that, if the forty-shilling freeholder sores according to his own judgment, he its immediately obliged to pay un what is called the back half-year's rent, and is deprived of bring for the next halt year ?—lies. • The right of fuel is not leased out with the freehold ?—lt is not. " Generally sneaking, those for:y-shilling freeholders exercise no fieetloin of election whatever ?—Geneeally speaking, I do not con ceive they do ; I conceive quite the reverse. " If there were no pentane' motives which induce them to regis ter their freeholds, do you conceive that. upon general grounds. then would haves dispos.tion to register their freeholds ?—I do not con ceive that they would take the trouble. " rots stated, that you have known hog: tracts of land. which. upon falling out into lease. bad been divided among vev ;tat lessees 7. were those persons rub-tenants, existing upon the farm at the tinsel. —ln misny cases they wire not. " Then they must have been persons who have been introduced for the sole purpose of making freeholders P--On some estates, the lands were put up. in fact, to be let. " De you conceive that they were so put up to be let for the pur pose of obtaining the highest rents that could be obtained. or for the purpose of introducing a large number of freeholders upon the estate ?—When they were put up to be let. I conceive that they were put up for the purpose of drawing to the landlord a greater profit, in the shape of rent." The next evidence to which he wreild advert waa,the pure, ones phisneated evidence of the Honourable Member for Kilkenny (the Right Honourable Dennis Browne). It was as follow. Did it ever occur to yon, that it would be desirable to nuke the abclitioz of the fort:4hithog freeholtte3 a put of Vatholth , LONDON, W Noble Marquis in considering that although there was no proba bility that the ports would ever be open to receive foreign corn, still, if such a eireunistance were to happen, it would produce a great revulsion. In opening our ports, however, to core from Ca. nada and also in allov corn ing bonded to be brought into th e market, ,here was some apprehension ; for, in admitting corn from Canada, we were admitting corn from the United States of Ame rica, as am would ;meted to us through that country in the sante manner as we emirs American timber under the name of Canadian timber. The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, that he did not rise to question the allegations contained in the petition just presented by his Noble Friend, but the Noble Marquis had stated that he had high authority for declaring that the demand for raw materials from abroad had effected the object of depressing the exchange, before the discussion on the subject of the Corn Laws had taken place, and that it originated in the great demand for our manufactures. The Alarquis of LA NSDOW N said, that the Noble Earl had mistaken his observation. He did not say that the depression had so originated. The Earl of LAUDERDALE continued, and said that the de mend for raw materials could originate in nothing else; but no alteration could in the exchange have thus taken place, as au equal quantity of wealth was brought into the country and carried out, and there was no alteration in the opulence of the rountry. If this were true, he wished the manufacturing Interest s wou ld we ll con sider the effects of impoverishing the landed interests of the coun try., as posy eiretunstnnce that tended to affect the opulence of one class wereid_ 'feet the opulence of all, and consequently injure the interests &all Ile was one who considered the 112tIliggi and the opulence of all so intimately and closely suited, that One class Gould not he injtwed without injuring every other. In proportion L i a=nded interests flourished, and the raw material of grain doe inonufaciturisig elasaws of the country would &in nsh and in proportion as one became depreued, the other would be. come so. I The Marquis of LA NSDOiVN observed, (bat he certainly did say the variation in the exchange had been much affected in con sequence of the great demand for raw materials front abroad; but that depression hail continued for fourteen or fifteen months, and had therefore commenced before the agitation of this subject ; but he hail not said that it was in consequence of the demand for our manufactures abroad. The depression of exchange had no doubt been affected by the agitation of the subject, but certainly had not been caused by it. In consequence of the great demand tor cotton and other foreign articles, many persons hail been induced to speculate in them, and they were brought into the market front all parts, and were paid for in coin. Ile believed this was the founda tion of the depression. Ile hoped the manufacturers would recol lect, that to the home demand for articles of consumption they owed their relief during a time of greater distress titan they had ever experienced. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said he bad generally observe] that when it was sought to ascertain the cause of any thing, dif ferent answers were given according to the ideas of the persons who spoke. Now, he believed, in the present case, that the truth lay between the Noble Marquis and the Noble Eurl. The Noble Marquis appeared to him to be right as to the original cause of the depression of exchange, which undoubtedly arose from an ex cessive speculation in cotton and other articles of foreihm produce, which were paid for in specie; but he did not believe the Noble Marquis wits equally right in saying that it was not at all in conse quence of the speculation in corn, in consequence of the ports being left open. Ile was sure that speculations in corn were carried on to a great extent on the Continent, and that this fact had its effect in depressing the exchange. But this variation in exchange must take its course, and whatever the effect may be, we must not alter ours. lie did not rest his objections against now considering the question, on any grounds of this sort, but upon the difficulty of giving it due consideration during the present Session, and upon the utter impractability of obtaining such information as was re. quisite. With respect to the observation of the Noble Earl (Limerick) relative to Canadian corn, he would say, even If we did get corn from the United States, through Canada, in the shape of flour Mx in no other shape could it come), he did not see any danger that the landed proprietor had to apprehend. Our great supply of corn. in cases of scarcity, came from those countries bordering on the Baltic. But looking upon Canada, as he did, and always should do, while she continued in connexion with England, as a part and a vital part of the British Empire, he should always be anxious to place, as far as possible, the landed proprietors of Canada on a par with the landed proprietors of England, an he considered them equally entitled to adyantat,sea. Lord ELLENBOROCVIR said, that in his opinion it was Impossible to adopt any permanent system with regard to the Com Laws; at all events, without the information required by the Noble Earl. and which it was cettain could not be obtained during the pr , :sentSession, it would be impossible to judge as to what alter- anion ought to be made in these laws. Ile regretted that at the person ant e subject should have been started at all. He 'odd repo ation,aliat it wasimpasaible to fix a perma- Dent duty, for according to the changes that might happen in the course of affairs, so that duty must change. Lord KING said, that it was very generally acknowledged that a change in the Can Laws moo take place--and why ? because corn was too dear. If so, the House would be doing injustice , towards the consumer by not deciding upon that change, and what that change should be without delay. by not making that alteration immediately which it was confessed must be made next Session, and which there was no reason for not making now. He thought this question would be better decided out of the House than in it— by the Government rather than by their lordships--by the Noble Lord opposite and by the President of the Board of Trade, than by a Committee of Parliament. The Earl of CA Rlili ltli said a few words, but was not under. stood below the bar. Lord DACR} said, that the present question Involved the inte rests of every portion of the community, and he hoped and believed that no Noble bon] would come to a decision upon the subject unless after a full and laborious inquiry. The petition was then laid upon the table. The Duke of AvioL presented a petition from Fifeshire, against an alteration In the Corn Laws—Laid on the table. Earl RROIVNLOW presented a petition to the same effect, from a parish in the county of Lincoln.--Luid on the table. CATHOLIC CLAIMS. The LORD ClLiiidgLLiiit ireeen ---- tetla petition fmm the Protestant Dissenters of a Meeting-house in East -street, iValworth, against the claims of the Roman Catholics. The Noble and Learned Lord obverted, that the petitioners stated, that they would rather relinquish their own rights than consent to the emancipation of the Roman Catholics.—Laid on the table. . . . The Earl of DONOINIFIMORE presented a petition from the Protestant Inhabitants of Carrick-on-Suir, in favour of Catholic Emancipution—Laid en the table. Lord HOLLAND said, that he had also a petition to present from a body of Dissenters. on the same subject as the one presented by the Noble and Learned Lord ; but they viewed that subject in a very difffirent light, and did not state that they would relinquish their own rights for the sake of preventing another class of persons from obtaining theirs. He was surprised to hear any body of peoPle making such an ausertion but he was still more surprised to find it proceeding from the irotestant Dissenters, becaese they laboured under all the disadvantages attendant—not on the abso lute suspension of an Act, but with an Act hanging over them, that prevented them full admission to the benefits of the Conatitu. tion—an Act the effects of which were well appreciated—an Act known by the name of the Test Act. In the passing of this Act the Dissenters did most cordially concur, but they said that though they were satisfied to relinquish their rights, they hoped that a time would come when the effects of It would be done away, and those rights would be restored to them. He would deprecate this hosti. lity, this unchristian feeling on the part of the Dissenters, towards persons who were placed in the some situation as themselves.—foe to the same situation in fart the Dissenters were placed ever since the passing of that Act. Whatever our ancestors might have been induced to do, in consequence of the peculiar difficulties with which they had to contend, he did not expect that in the present day the same means would be resorted to. The petition was laid on the table. The Earl of RO3l NEI' presented a petition from the clergy of Maidstone, in the county of Kent, against the claims of the Roman Catholics; and another from the Mayor and Corporation of 3laid. stone to the same effect—laid on the table. Lord KENYON presented a petition to the same effect from Merinneth, and another from a parish in 31erionetlisitire.—I.sid on the table. The Bishop of ST. DAVID'S presented a petition from some place, of which we did not hear the name. against granting any fur ther concession to the Catholics.--Laid on the table. UNITARIAN MARRIAGE BILL. The Earl of ROMNEY presented a petition from Maidstone against the Unitarian Marriage BBL—Laid on the table. ST. KATHARINE'S DOCKS. Lord DACRE moved for Copies of the Estitnates for constract ing the St . Katharine 's and the kast London Docks. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tummer, Aram 26,1026• WESTERN SHIP CANAL —....— Mr. ASTELL presented a petition from Bridgewater, against the proposed Ship Canal, and praying to be head at the bar of the House against certain of its clauses. Sir T. LETHfiRIDGE said, that he himself hail a petition to present from the same town is favour of the Bill, and he was cer tain it was at least as numerously signed as that of his Honourable Friend ; and if he might judge from the great number he had pre sented in its favour, he thought the general feeling of the country was that way inclined. Mr. ASTELL begged to ask his Hon. Friend (Sir T. Leth bridge), at what time it was intended to bring it into Committee. Sir T. LETHBRIDCE said be really could cat positively state on what day It wits intended, but he believed it would be on the Gih of next month. The petition was then brought up and read. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE then prevented his petition from Bridge. water, in favour of the Ship Canal. COLLIER DOCKS. Mr. DENNIS prcacnted a petition from the parhh of Rothcr hithe. against the Dock intended to be m:ide in the Isle of D Referred to we committee a the Dill. IDNESDAY, APRIL 27, 1825. • CORN LAWS. A petition vrss presented from Edinburgh, praying fors revision of th► Corn hairs. I%lr. PALMER presented a petition from !leeks, praying that the Corn Laws might be revised. He also presented several others from various parishes in the same county. Mr. F. BUXTON presented a petition from the Manufacturers residing in the neighbourhood of Spits'fields, praying for a revision of the Corn Laws. Sir E. HARVEY presented a petition from the Farmers and Landowners in the neighbourhood of Chelmsford, praying for a re. vision of the Corn Laws. He also presented a similar petition front Denyen. near Malden, in Essex. Mr. HUSKISSO:sf presented petitions from the Merchants of Dundee and Manchester, praying for a revision of the Corn Laws. .He also; presented one from the owners of mills to Liverpool, pray mg that the flour trade may be protected. Mr. /1. BARING wished to ask his Right lionourable l Friend when he intended to bring forward his measure respecting binder! COTT. 31r. HUSK ISSON said, he was anxious to do it es south as passible; and that he thought it would be done in sufficient dale to bring the bonded corn into consumption before the next harvest. ' Mr. BRIGHT wished the question to be set at rest some way dy other, for the country would not submit to the inconvenience the' mum ensue if it was postponed till Lein Session. After a few words from Mr. PELHAM, the petition was brought up, and read. Mr. DUNCAN presented a petition from Dainsborough, against any alteration in the existing Corn Lees. Mr. IIPKENZIE presented a similar petition from Boss. Sir T. WINNINGTON presented similar petition front Stur bridge. Mr. DUGDALE presented similar petitions from Coventry, Warwick. Stratfonl.upon-A von, and mhos. places. Mr. S. WORTLEY presented similar petitions from Tadmiter, and other places in Yorkshire. Mr. BANKS presented a petition from the county of Gloucester, also against any alteration In the Corn Laws. Mr. CHAPLAIN presented a great number of petitions from different parts of England, all against any alteration In the existing ('orn Laws. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a petition against any altera tion in the Corn Laws, from Yorkshire. Sir W.INGILBY presented similar petitions from Stamtixd Bridge, and other places. Lord BELG RAVE presented a petition from the Mill-owner; of Chester, and neighbourhood, against the importation of foreign flour. Mr. WHITMORE presented a petition from Railsworth, against any alteration in the Corn Laws. fie also presented one from Risley, in Gloucestershire, prying for the revision of the Corn Laws. ASSESSED TAXES. Mr. F. BUXTON presented a petit nom the parish of Grace church-street. praying for the abolition wr the Assessed Taxes. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a similar petition. BUTTER LAWS. Mr. HUSK ISS.ON presented a petition from Liverpool, praying that no alteration might be made in the law s r e l at i ng to Irish butter. Mr. COOPER presented a Simner petition from Sligo. COUNTY COURTS. Sir J. WROTTESLEY presented a petition from Wolver hampton, praying that the jurisdiction of the County Courts might be concurrent with those of the Court of Requests. Lord A ',THORP said, that he believed that was the general wish. He had no objection to its being so settled ; but he should leave it to the choice of the suitors to choose which court they pleased to carry their cause. COMBINATION LAWS. Mr. HUME presented s petition from the Shipwrights on the Tyne, concerning the Combination Laws. It was referred to the Committee on the —" Mr. DENNISCY fog for the r - Mr. NEWM. Stephen and concessions h Mr. It. HI Mr. S. W' pontt ion of PROVISII Mr 9 W# Friend ( Lord subject till S. Sir W.W.II' bighaltire, against He himself must petition; and v Royal Duke % eager to bac. understood the ._ state, if, from any _ eve.— ,ppening in a high quarter, the wishes of the [louses of Parliament and the Crown should be placed in opposition. Sir T. LETHBRIDGE bad not exactly heard what the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir W. Wynn) had said, but he supposed it was perfectly in order. For his part, if what was reported to have been said last night was true, he was heartily glad of it. If the mess. sure were to pass on the strength of the evidence on the subject before the Committee, he thought it would be highly improper, for, from what he had read of it, he considered it to be entiray ex-rule. Sir J. BRIDGES was proceeding to advert to what had been said last night in another place, when he was called to order by The SPEAKER, who said that every Member was as fully aware as he was of the Orders of the House. The present discus.. sion was certainly irregular, though it was not always convenient to stop the mouths of Members when they began to speak. la It was impossible to know how they might frame their sentence. What had been said could not be recalled, but he hoped it would not be renewed. Sir J. BRIDGES said he merely wished to deliver his opinion on the subject, as he was not a Member of that House when the subject was under discussion before. lie did not think that it ought to ba put in the power of the Catholics to overturn the Protestant religion. He did not wish to see our own pure worship replaced bt the disgusting mummery of Popery. CATHOLIC CLAIMS. Mr. WELLS rose to present a petition from the Mayor. Bur gesses. Corporation, and Inhabitants of Kingstown, in the parish of Maidstone, in the county of Kent, against further concessions to the Roman Catholics. In doing so, the Hon. Member professed him self a warm friend of Ireland, and a well-wisher to her interests, but he did not think that the Catholic Relief Bill now before Par. liament could he passed into a law consistently with the safety of the existing establishments in Church and State. Mr. A. W. ROBA RT.'S felt himself bound to state, that al. though the petition presented by his Hon. colleague (Mr. Wells) was numerously and respectably signed, yet it by no means ex pressed the sentiments of all persons in the part of the country from which it came. Many persons differed from the petition entirely. For his part, after the unanswerable speech of his 3lajesty's Attor ney-General foe Ireland (hjr. Plunkett) on the subject of Catholic Relief, and that which had been delivered by the Right Hon. the Secretary for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Canning), • few nights ago, he did not see by what process of reasoning lion. Gentlemen could bring themselves to oppose the measure. For himself, he would say openly and boldly, that while he held a seat in that House be never would oppose any measure calculated like the present to remove the grievances and promote the prosperity of Ireland. Mr..l. SMITH entirely concurred with the Hon. Member for Maidstone (Mr. IV ells) when be designated himself es • friend to Ireland. Ile (Mr. Smith) had had opportunities of knowing how well the Hon. Gentleman was entitled to that praise, for they had sat together upon committees where the interests of Ireland had been the subject of discussion, and the conduct of that Honourable Member was such as justified him in asserting that he was the friend of Ireland. He was likewise aware that there was no Mern her in that House whose opinions were more the result of his own mature and unbiassed consideration than the Member for Maid. stone ; yet he must express his surprise that the knowledge which the Hon. Gentleman possessed of the state of Ireland hail not led him to a very different conclusion from that which he had just ex pressed. But he trusted, however strong his opinions might now be. the lion. Gentleman world see reason to alter them before long. The more so as he (Mr. Smith) was convinced tranquillity could never be restored to that country by any other means than those now proposed to be carried into effect. He belifved the present petition was respectfully worded, but there were others of &different descrip tion, and which were so highly offensive in their language and tendency, that it could troche supposed Ilan. Members oho pre sented them had ever taken the trouble to read them or make them. selves masters of their contents. One petition presented the other evening from the village of Buckhurst, in I)evonshire, expressed the petitioners' bostili to the concession of Catholic Claims, "because the supporters of Those claims were to be found with few excels. dons among that body of public men who were always to be seen to the van of those arrayed against the safety of our present happy Constitution in Church and State." Now, he thought it highly improper that petition. containing such indecorous expressions of sentiment should be laid before the House. Was it meant to be insinuated, that the 2(11 Members, who constituted the majority on the second reading of the Catholic Relief Bill, were enemies to our " present happy establishments in Church and State?" The Honourable Member then proceeded to advert to a petition from the inhabitants of Sr. Saviour's, Southwark, and two other parishes in the heart of the City . of London. which contained very improper sentiments and expressions. Ile thought the Honourable Gentle men who presented them could not have been aware of their con. tents; for his part, be (Mr. Smith) would never present • petition without having first read it. Mr. Secretary PEEL wished to trouble the House with an ob servation with regard to the Irish Elective Franchise Bill. It would be fur the convenience of all parties, it the course intended to be pursued with respect to that and the two other Bills relative to the Itotnan ('atholics, should be folly known to the House. H e , fix his part. had not been aware of the Honourable Member for Stafthrd shire t Ilr. Littleton's) intention to postpone the further considers of 1412 1.1:1 last nigh , . Ile wished to k;iew. as it was its (Mr. Littleton's) intention to move the order of the day for the second reading of his Bill to-night, when the House would be requested to go into Committee on the Roman Catholi: Relief Bill, awl what was the intention of the Noble Lord (Leveson Gower) with respect to the Roman Catholic Clergy Provision Bill. Lord L. GOWER informed the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Peel) that his Resolution had been postponed till Friday. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, u the House had determined in the affirmative on the second reading of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill, he thinald not take the sense of the House upon the question of the Speaker leaving the Chair, because it was the opinion of the majority of the House that the Bill should go into Committee. At the same time, he would reserve to himself the right of making what suggestions he might deem ptoper upon that occasion with re gard to alteratiOtut or the introduction of fresh clauses into the BiH. It might be as well, however, to state that he was fully determined to take the sense of the House upon the question of the third read ing of the Bill. A conversation took place bitterer' Mr. Secretary PELL, Sir F. aDZTT, General GASCOYNE, Si - T. LZTHIIIIDOI. and Sir J. NEw Pon T, relative to the period to be appointed for the Cont. mittal of the Catholic Relief Bill, when it was finally agreed,on the motion of Sir F. MY anETT, that the committal of the Bill should be postponed till Monday next. Mr. WELLS moved that the Kingstown petition be now read. It was read accordingly. Lord CLIFTON did not wish to interrupt the reading of the petition, but he disapproved or occupying the time of the House in that manner. Mr. ISrli LIS had moved the reading of the petition on account of the observations which fell from the Hon. Member (Mr. J• Smie% relative to the improper language in %%bleb some petitions had Wen couched. He wished to prove to that Hon. Member and the House that no such objection applied to the present petition. • ' Sir N. KNATCH BULL was sure the Noble Lord (Clifton) wu the last person that would be desirous to dehar the public of any legal and constitutional right like that of having their petitions read. It might be inconvenient to have all petitions presPnted to that House read, but it was quite competent to any Hon. Member to move the reading of a petition. Lord CLIFTON explained. Mr. J. SMITH did not sac the Iron. Member for Maid stone (Mr. Wells) had presented the petition without having read it; on the contrary, ha (Mr. Smith) supposed be hid: but his expression was--" other lion. Members appeared to have pre sented petitions to the House without having read them, or made themselves masters of their contents." The petition wan ordered to be printed. Mr. DOMINICK BROWNE presentol a petition from Kit_ bride. in the diocese of Twin, in favour of the Catholic Claims. —Laid on the table. Earl BECTIVE wished to correct a ells-statement relative to the petition he had presented a few night.' ago from the county of Cavan, in favour of the Catholic Claims. 11. had then stated the petition to be signed by 10,000 individuals ; he had since learned that the signatures amounted to 12,600, and comprehended the most respectable and wealthy individuals iu that part of the country. QUARANTINE LAWS—MESSAGE FROM THE on the Bill. of 0 BEER DUTIES. tabh NNISON presented a nation from Coalcsham, pray_ A repeal of the Duties on Ike?. Dee, CATHOLIC CLAIMS. 111 ;NYMAN presented pensions from the parishes of St. ILO ad St. Mary Major, *eh", praying that no further Law a he granted to the Cathfici HILL presented &similar petition town Salem. 1111 VORTLEY presented 4 swam. petition from the cor- the I r Leeds. t on= lON FOR THE RO N CATHOLIC CLERGY. Al WORTLEY announ ,en the part of hie Honourable Hon ,rd F. L. (lower ) the cm eflais motion on this his I Friday next. • cl V.WYNN presented st!pedthan from Wrexham, in Den. plait against making any filtharganceseions to the Catholics. recei f most observe, he coull Moires with the prayer of the had i ii. Ind what was reportesi to jrkree been amid by a certain °hi e ke in samba place Ink night - Made - him Inn the MOM to in ire the Catholic question clirefelh-larise nanny ( as we lose I the Honourable Member to say) would be in a d rea dßa 1 out any unforeseen melancholy event happening in • hi g h N LORDS. A message from the Lords appeared at the bar. with a request from their Lordships that the House would furnish them with copies of the Report of the Committee appointed in 1819 to con sider the valid icy of the doctrine of contagion of the plague.— Ordered. REVISION AND CONSOLIDATION OF THE STATUTES. Sir M. W. RIDLEY postponed his motion relative to the Re vision and Consolidation of the Statutes from Thursday, the 28th of April, to Thursday, the 12th of May. CORN LAWS. Mr. LA3IIITON presented a petition from certain inhabitants of Durham, against any alteration of the Corn laws.-l Aid on the table. A petition was presented from East Stonehouse. in the county of Devon, praying a revision of the Corn Laws—Laid on the table. 11r. W. SMITH presented a petition signed by upwards of ,0110 inhabitants of Norwich, praying a revision of the Corn tws.—Laid on the table. HOUSE. AND WINDOW TAX. Mr. LAMBTON presented a petition from Mile-end against the House and Window Tax. COURT OF KING'S BENCH. IRELAND. Mr. J. SMITH wished to call the attention of the Right fon. his 31 sjesty's Secretary for Ireland to a petition he held in s hand from an individual of the name of Clancy, who had been . clerk in the Court of King's Bench, in Ireland, and corn plained of being dismissed from his situation without having received an adequate compensation. The situation of which he had been deprived amounted in value to Goth . a year; and the Meet of the petition wee, the renewal of the Committee appointed 'mire into the claims of individuals seeking comp...maion far of place, and that they might be instructed to report on A ease. Mr. 0011./3URN feared he should not be able to give so satisfactory an account of the transaction as the Hatt. iiendetnan might require. He could not be expected to be acquainted with all the details of individual eases which bad occurred before be came intooilice. Ile was certainly aware that many individuals had expressed their dissatisfaction at the determination that had been come to with regard to offices in the Law Courts in Ireland ; but, generally speaking, be thought there existed no grounds for the appeals they had made. Mr. S. RICE said, a Commission had been appointed to hives. tigate the claims of persons circumstanced as the petitioner was t— the Commission, he believed, never sat; certainly it never made a Report. He hoped that as the Crown, by the appointment of the Commission, assented to the prirciple, that it would not now with hold compensation where it was shown that persons were really aggrieved. 'rite petition was then brought up and read. Mr. JOHN SMITH, on moving that it lie on the table, ex pressed his hope that the Ooverntnent would take, not only this case, but others of a similar nature, into its serious consideration. Ordeied to be printed. COMBINATION LAWS. Mr. HUAI E presented a petition from certain operatire Collier: of Ayrshire. Ttie Honourable Member said, the petition ex pressed the feelings of 1190 persons belonging to the same colliery. petitioners complained that for a long time they were paid but 11a. Gd. a week each. They prayed that some measure might be adopted to regulate the wages paid by their employers to the ope rative colliers. Ordered to be referred to the Committee on the Combination Laws. CATHOLIC CLAIMS. LUSHINGTON presented a petition from the parishes of St. Andrew and St. Mary, in the city of Canterbury. against fur. thee concession to the Cathoiies.— : prdered to be printed. POOR RATES. Mr. MONCK postpont4Tu;iiiiO.rnOirow his Bill for prohibit. ing. in amain eases, the payment of a portion of the •ages of la. bouras and the Poor Rotes. ____CRUELTY TO ANIMALS. _ _ ...... . Mr. MARTIN postponed ur.til Thursday his Dill respeettng Cruelty to Animals. TRANSPORT CONVICTS. Mr. Secretary PEEL moved for and obtained leave to bring in a Rill to regulate the Trial of Convicts transported to the Colonies. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, the object of the Bill tru that they should be tried according to the laws of England. IRISHELECTIyE FRANCHISE BILL. Mr. LITTLETON moved the Order of the B.iy for the second reading of the Irish Elective Franchise Bill. On the question being put from the Chair, Mr. LITTLETON proceeded. He claimed the indulgence of the House whilst he stated the nature, object, and bearings of the Bill, the second reading of which he had moved t he wished, too, to state the advantage and great b Tit& likely to result horn it. He assured the House that his motive fur bringing the measure for ward was founded on the conviction that the present system was pregnant with vice, and fraught with every . thing that pro:noted perjury o ne of its great objects was to reject that multitude of votes in I relent!, vicious in most instance!, but onfortunatel4 avallabla—(llear.)—The electors, the object of the present Bi were ter the most part Catholics—the measure was to affect them, at the tame time that it was to smooth the way to Catholic Emend. pinion, by landing to the Protestants a valuable security for pass. ing the Bill introduced by the lion. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett).— Before proceeding farther, he would notice an outcry that had been rail d against him, for sezking to disfranchise so large a por tion of the people of Ireland. He denied that his Bill was one of disfranchisement t, it was merely intended to regulate the elective franchise of Ireland; it did not go one step towards the disfran chisement of a single individual. Indeed, the principal reason why he delayed the second reading was, that he might introduce a ' clause. referring to all their present vested rights ; no freeholder was to be deprived of the right of registering his freehold for the purpose of voting; all had their vested rights most unqualifiedly preserved to them. To show that such was the nature of the Bill, it would be only necessary to read one of its provisions ; it ran thus--" And be it furthes enacted, that nothing herein contained shall deprive such freeholders aa have already registered their freeholds, of the I right of voting, or of registering them hereafter, during the contd. nuance of their present leases." He hoped that those Gentlemen who expressed their hostility to the measure would now perceive that there was not the most distant idea of disfranchisement, nei ther would it have the effect of preventing landlords from making votes, but compel them to make them of higher calre.—(Heae.)— I f the Irish Ch. freeholder hail at all resembled the English, he would not have ventured on the present course; it was becalm Cher; was nothing common to them both, except the mere quslitication— it was because he looked on the Irish system as promoting fraud and perjury, and encouraging vice of every description , that be called on the House for its sanction of the Bill now before it.— (Hear, hear.)—lndependent of these objections, in themselves un answerable, he considered that the system was calculated to keep down the real and independent sentiments of the country.—( hear, hear.N—lle looked on it as likely to check public opinion, and do manifest harm to the landed interest, by the breaking up and sub divis:on of farms, in order to Licresse the number of persons wins wc:: to derive Tatra Irony Cie-se little rarvqs. It an. calculated,