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this Tsetse (Mr. Robson), having stateJethat a bill for 171 or 19 1 . went unpaid at the Sick and Hurt , oilice, h- wasfiane t a le en u p in such a tone of indig rove his charge by the then a ncellor of the N e o n and de E e t :A p rove e uer, that the Frig ht lion. ch sees stunned, and app rehensive' Mosher allude d to pit the element that Ite had been guilty of a kind of „ ewe , whereas, in a sleet time afterwards, it awned out that the statement was not only true, but chat there wete several other bills in the same It s %Cell pain and I also etericament. 'ti e ve that there have all along been very concern shame ' • ie the payments of the haltpay i d 6i t he de Navy; and surely, of all other branches 5j t he service, there was not o ne i which imperiously respiirei a peompt a nd 171 . ITlC the exigen cies mr.•nient, as the supply of • d t h,,,, gentlemee, who having won such c e f,: t * laurels for their country, and having no e('!.liersi'ipport but their pay, are kept generally six, but cm:sta r :ly three months in arrears. This dis ire c ircumstance had hitherto escaped my no tice: a nd I hope that it will be remedied without This, Sir, is a tax which I imposed upon when I gave notice of my former motion, ao * LI in the discharge of it , I do not mean to crimi nate the Right Hon. Gentleman, though I wish to have the circumstance placed as a nand upon your ilerea t t , A confidence in that Right Hon. Gets. demo, when he was considered in the midst of his r and career, for the salvation of his country, nude thitets be overlooked, which, in other times, and ether Administrations, would have cre wed considerable alarms ; but at the present /lament, it becomes Parliament, that it will not always be indifferent to him. 1 own I am serious this night for the co-operation of the friends and adherents of the Noble Viscount, who pre ceded the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, fur I mast, le common with them, commend the accuracy of Lord Sidmotr.h's administration of the finances, who never attempted those dashing things f! Arz so conspicuous in the cbarAder of his succes ser. And I must confess, that however I might have cenlemned the incapacity of that Noble Lord as a war minister, though he did but little in his Siert administration of the war, his successor has done less in a retch longer period." The Hon. Gentlem es thee moved tee, resolutions ; the first rented all the dates aril statemeats contained he his speech. relative to the loan of 49.0001. to Mr. Boyd, and concluded with stating it to be contrary to law, and, if admitted as a .preced est, might be dange rous in its en:pet/item:es ; the secolid related to the circumstances of the' deficienc:es of Mr. Jellicire, and concluded with swine that the Lords of the Admi ralty had net done tli• it duty in granting the writ of privy seal to Viscount Meiv Ile. in or.:.:: to indem nify him from a re e eensibility f:r these halanees. The CHANCELLOR of the t XCHI:QUE R.— " I will endeavour. Sir, in what I have to say in an swer to the speech of the Heaee: iisle Gentle/nee. to lollies him as nettle as pessible, though 1 shall not attempt to take notice of the ohole or what he has advanced, being, In many parts of it, in Me opi nion, very foreign from the sal: jet now under the can-: eettion of the House. And, SW, I ern the more reload to decline touching on the several topics now alluded to, as a day will shortly come, eccord ! sax to a notice that has been g iven, on which these reveal points will come bere the House with snnre propriety, and with more force and eff-d. In a country like this, Sir, which depeeds so miser on a "treat variety of industrious pursufts—a coun try which boasts and prides itself so highly on the vast extent of its trade, its commerce, and its manu f wtotes I which depends so greatly also on the mae n:tnife of its funded connedions—amidst the variety names which it is obliged to give to the different plates where business in chiefly transaded; there shnoll among those of the cloth-market, the corn :earl:cf. it-. inch a word as the money-market Love found its way ien the mercantile voca lolery. Though th • Honourable Gentleman finds Sidt with it, it seems to me a r. ry necessary and a eery fercible one, though the elegance of it does not wit the delicacy of his fastidious ear. When the Lea Gentleman first en sntioned his intention of bringing it forward. he insinuated pretty broadly that f was implicated its part of the traanadion to a degree of criminAtion ; and I think. when persons mike insinuations, they ought to be cautious, and do so with reserve; mid I fancy the Han. Gentle man is himself of the sa m e opin ion, from the can did confession be Is is aside to-night. Sir, in respell to one point which relates to the prinzipAl transac tion alluded to, I mesa the inforrnwiaa given by Mr. Itaikes, it is material to consider who made the application, and to what point it diredly tended. He did not make it as Governor of the Bank; it Was a rivet; coriversation ; and I admit that lnoking 4) 1 it in th It point of ?ice-, I did nit make any fir- Clef inquiry thin, as I said before, be mentioning i: to Viscoaat Melville. In looking hack to mime:6one passed snare year n ago, it is necessary :o consider all the circumstances with which a person stands sur rounded, to tike an impartial view of his situation under all its aspeds, and in all its he.tring4, and net proceed on our own information, communicated and received from circumstances afterwards Tee Hon. G mtle rows' said, that is s coesidering the transadion. it was odd I should have forgotten the Ad of Parliament I beg the House to recoiled that in what I said before, when the subjed was first mentioned, and the evidence I gave before the Com mittee, I expressly mentioned, that 1 did not think money drawn from the Rank, and placed in the hands of a private banker, or in the iron chest of the Ate. in ted•rr to be afterwards applied in purposes adually naval. was illegal; and this I think is all that is neeessei-e for me to say at present, on an article nn whit% there is no charge. I now come. Sir, to the affair of Mr. Jellicoe's debt, and to the charge made against me, for having agreed to the Writ of Privy Seal, in order to indemnify Lord Melville from beine liable to make good the money which he stood indebted to the public, in coriserpience of his unfor tunate defalcation. Sir, 1 remember the circum stances attending that unforzunAte man. and I se so satisfied with the justice of the stop I then took, that if the same was to occur at the present mo ment, I am certain I should at the rime as I teen. Ur. Jellicod was an old servant of the pe!ila: not ?pointed by Lord Melville, but a person whom Le found in the office, who was altogether teoa, • to him, there was therefore no gown.' to suppose 1w enrettained the least partiality to him. Sore rime afterwards Lord had reason, from info, tiun he reccivc.t. to snspal Mr. Sellico2's pecuniary concerns were not in the most favourable state, and he thereupon questioned him. and found, from his own acknowledgment, that he was in great em barrassments, in consequence of some speculations which he had entered upon, a nd which had turned out most unfortunately. Incl”el theeircumstancesat- tending this tr H1%4614,11 were such Ciat scarcely any one who knew them could fill to feel a mixturir of compassion far his misfortune. Any man wiso knows the open getrrous nature of Lord Melville's charaaer, will readily believe that he wi,uld he one of the first to feel fora peraon under such circum- stances, advanced in life,:and till that moment bear- ins an irreproachable charaner. He considered, therefore, immediately what was the best way to proceed. If severe measures were pursued, there was no prospea of any thing but total inevitable ruin to the poor man and his family ; at the same time taking sway every possible chance of retrieving his affains. On the contrary,he thought, if lenient mea sures were pursue], it would give bins some chance, and he was willing to try what that might do. I think, Sir, no Hon. Member who hears me would disclaim this aai , m, if they were guided by the same motives. Lord Melville having therefore :Vied from an impulse of the finest feelings of the human heart, and from an anxioui wish to temper, as much as possible, justice with mercy, and to alleviate mis fortune by the offices of humanity, continued Mr. Jellicoe in his situation, and ought not on that account to be made responsible ; and, therefore, it WAS, Sir, that! I advised the writ of Privy Seal. As t the manner in which this was carried into etc- curio r, is respell to the difference of dates, there certainly appears something extraordinary, which it is no: in my power to explain. It might happen, from the business having come before me, and I ilAti ordered it to be done immediately, meaning to men tion it to the Board the first time they 171{1t. It is the common pradice, and sometimes not to be avoided, in all public boards, fol . s'rme one, circumstances may occur, to order a thing to be done on his own responsibility, till he makes the whole Bard Ac quainted with it, arid obtains their approbation and confirmation of it. I believe, Sir, that the Ancient. - ..... . _ regular, and established mode of giving an acquittal to a public accoaatant, has ever been by a writ of ?rivy Seal ; and AS such, under all the circumstances I have just mentioned, I thought myself strialy jus tifiabl in advising chat, in the case of Mr. Jellicoe. Tae Hon. Gentleman ltis mentioned a case which happened in Lord Grenville's Office, when he was Secretary of State, in which a writ of Privy Seal was granted to Lord Grenville. Bat that, he says, was a dam very different from this. Where the ;lif ter:ace lies, I confess, I ern at a loss to find out. A per.on employed under Lord Grenville, when Secretary of State, receives a certain sem of mosey for secret service for Lord Grenville, with which he runs away. Another person, under V.scount Melville, when Treasurer of the Navy, turns to his o.vn use money with which he is entrusted, from his official situation. in order to deft- ty the public 'silences. In both cases the persons emb.zele the public money entrusted to their care, and so far from being the most distant, they appear to be the nearest casts that can be con ceived. I come now, Sir, to the 40,0001. issued to the house of Boyd and Benfield. The lion. Gentleman has, in mentioning this transadion; gone into many subjeds not at all conneeted with it. He has intermixed with it the ilamburgh Bills, and other matters which have been already investigated by order oldie House. He has alsosupposed that the fir t Loan made by Boyd and Benfield in 1795 was A close one. In that he is mistaken. There were two Liens in that year—one in April, the other in Deccalher, 1795. The first was le open Loan, the other a close one—on what ground ? Why, Sir, because the periods of the Instalments of the first Loan were not completed. I was therefore com pelled to make a ells, Loan, be:eitse I could not enter into one with any other persons. They obtained the first Loan because they were the highest bidders; and the close load, be cause, from the terms of the first, I was not a: liberty to treat with tither persons. The tran seßion of the Hamburgh Bills has already haen investigated, and the Honourable Gentleman says that the previous question was carried on it. I: is True the previous question was Moved on the fads, and there was afterwards a resolution condemning the transadion. The following fads, Sir, are how ever established : there were two loans in 1795 by Boyd and Benfield, the one for 1H,e00,0001. the other for 7,513.0001. On the latter In in there were severmi instalm ants due, of which Boyd and Benfield were the holders, and which were &homily not sold in 1796. At that period there was a very great scarcity of money, and none was to be got on secutions at a distant date, however good they migla be. Oa this they applied for aid.— Mere is one part of the evidence, as to this trans Et:nn, Sir, which may mislead if not here exe'a-ied. I mean what was said by Mr. Drum mend, one of the partners of the house of Boyd and Ben3el.l. That Gentleman had made a mistake, when first examin'd ; he did not suppose the house was under embarrassment, because he misappre hended the petind alluded to ; but on his second eurninetion, when he understood it right. and was iortnmed that it alluded to the instalments of the Loan due in 1796. he was pettedly convinced they were under the most distressing embarrassments. Indeed, we all of us must recoiled to what it led. In five months after the stoppage of the Batik took place, and all classes of merchants and others con cerned in trade most sensibly felt the severity of the pressure. Tele, Sir, has been most clearly and de cisively proved by an I inn. Gent. (Mr. R. Thorn ton), who, from his high station ar a merchant, and from having been Governor of the Bank, must he Allowed to oe capable of forming as sound and ac curate a ju fgment on the subject, as any man in the country. We are told, however, by the Hon. Gent. th et Boyd and Benfield might have sold stock. 13.1:, Srr, the same high authority I have just men tiened, has iaformed us they could not then have sold stria at a less loss than 15 per cent and at the same tirn• to have brought 52 mach scrip into the market, would have added very much to the gene ral eetearassment, and might have brought down the whole .e the stock then in the hands of the othet which wouli have produced incalcul -4',!!! I • and have rendered another loan india n:.Lia:);y .ssrry. to the one case,' there WAS no danger ut "-.4sa to the public, to the other there was a very gteat oneesehicl We must recollect. 8 engaged as agents fc to Vienna the money rial Majesty was Ali try, and on which P of Europe might dep not necessary that retain the good op anxious to support Al est. and most import the Government of aft with promptness fation, endanger the Sir, that so strongly for this accommoda sihility, were it to do pressing circumstanci I should be almost this Muse, though t dread on earth. In that on my own ri money for the pui have steted my having done so, an their displewere, I judgment, anti reeei may think me dose respeetful humility ; to have escaped th have followed me th the country ensue.' from my timidity and a .. non. I considered the embarrassment as merely temporary ; they did not come to me with a repre sentation of their general salvency, and to request assis-ance in a mercantile way on the cenfidence of their representation ; if they had, I should certainly have hesitated, and asked advice. But, Sir, they gave me instantly good security—security that could not he doubted ; and, therefore, there was no cause for further inquiry. When I was told, and saw clearly, that, in order to be of any use, the mo ney must eetually be had the next morning, and that there was net a moment to lose in completing the forms re:ceesary for the purpose of graeting it, was it for me to have called on a Committee, or to have consulted my Noble Friend, Ld. Gleneervie, who has been named in the debate, at a moment of such immediate necessity ? I might as well, Sir, have given them a dire& and p.aitive refund. The Hon. Gentleman suppeses, however, that if I had looked into the business I might hive • discovered the insolvency. But. Sir, to whet gerpose ? Sup pose they were insolvent, it was nothine, unless I knew it. I had got security that was abundantly ample, and that was all that I hid to look to on the part of the public, for whose benefit the advance of the money was inteaded. It doe., however, appear from evidence, Sir, that during the years 1797 and 179 e, lloyd aid Berifield continued under the sanc tion of the Governor and Deputy-Governor of the Bank. as biddet s for loans. It ;51 lila well known, that in all cases of bidders for loans, I always have taken the opinien of the Governor and Deputy- Governor of the Bank, as to the aulvency or stability of those houses h n bid, and, as a proof:aft, I' beg leave to call to the recolleetion of the House, that some few years ago, when their opinion was not favourable to a house in the city, fur the partners in which I had the most plrticalar respeet an i regari, I gave the most direa and immedi Sci proof that nn partiality !haul.] for a moment influ ence my conduct, by an absolute refuse' to accept them among the bidders. It was not, Sir, till the spring of 1799 that Mr. Thnrntan communicated to me a suspicion of the itaeility of Beyd's house. Is it theretore wonderful that I should ant have suspeaed them three years before ? Un.ler these circamstances I own, Sir, I Could net refuse, and did therefore let them have the money. I acknow ledge it was irregeler, and liable to the censure of this House, to welch I shall respeelfully submit.— If they think that a measure takers under such circumstances % a m nice which militates against the Constitution, the; will give Irle that share of blame they may think 1 merit. I can asrnre the Reuse, that what I did was for the best. It was, if an error, that of the judgment, and not of the heart. I was altogether induced to do what I did from a sincere, ardent, and Anxious desire to pro mote the welfare and most important interests of tee country. It has been asked, Sir, why I die not come forward to this House, and ask an indemnity? Sir, if I was justified in taking the measure, I thought myself equally so in concealing it. It could not be mentioned at the tine without as fatal effeas to the parties as these it wes intended to avert from them, nor could he divulged at any intermediate period, till after the failure, without accelerating their ruin; and really, Sir, after thelfailstre, at the distance, and after a lap.e of three or four years, and when every shilling of the mines , had long been re p lel, it did not occur to me to be necessary. I die nut conceive there was any thing criminal in what I had done. If it bed haunted my conscience, as the Honourable Gentleman seems to think it ought to hive done; I dare say I should hthe endeavoured to have alleviated its horrors by such an application ; bet indeed, Sir, amidst the pressing and important circamstAnces which took place in the year 1600, I candidly confess, it did not occur to me at all. As a precedent, the Hon. Gent. says it is dangerous. It might perhaps,Had it been public, but as it was secret, it cAnnot well be cited as an example. I here now. Sir, laid before the House the whole of this tree:- Aaion, and my reasons for entering into it, and shall respeetfully wait for and abide by its decision." Mr. 1 - 1. L ASCELLES sail, he felt great satisfac tion at the tone and manner in which the Hon. Gent had brought forward his motion. It was very cliff-rent from the language he had held on that subjeet on a former occasion. The Hon. Gent. then seemed to wish to press on the House, and tin the public, that the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer was acquainted with the transaaions of Lord Melville. He was the more induce) to form this opinion, as an Honourable Gentleman near him, immediately after the censure on Viscount Melville at the close of the debate on the sth of May, had used the epithet of • ditgraced Administra tem. He was, from these circumstances, apprehen sive that the Honourable Gentleman had in view some resolutions strongly criminating his Right Hon. Friend ; he had, therefore, paid particteAr At tention to every thing that passed before the St-cret Committee, of which he was a menber, as well as the Hon. Gentleman who brought forward 044 rw , - non. before • that Committee miry witness and van, • IIVI 4,141riG w , CG M , ••• a , ” , k accounts finally Closed, no wonder he should not think it necessary to ask for it. I-k doubted not but the ! louse and the country would beth think it sa ti,fadorily explained. He deemed it his slaty to propose to the House the Resolutions he hat dr ern as an Amendment. He would :beg leave to rea i tiffs Resolutions to the House, and is was Lis intention afterwards to move the previous question He data read his first resolution to 'Le following purport : "That the nwasnr.- advanag 41,00,1. on see..tilling, 101161 had I.wn Once tl.sehaqed. v..; rend-led nocestary by the eirennkstane:s of the eau, and that gnat Hama de ammo the tam e." Alter which he moved the previous which being put from the Chair ; Mr. PIT l' asked across the t ,ble, lien. Gentleman consi,ored his tesotutiens mating of him, as in that case he was reedy draw ?—(A general cry front the Oppor I s s atiu! no!) The SPEAKER said, it was fn. the determine whether they thought the crimill story. If t'fey did, the Right man must certainly withdraw. Mr. FOX rose, and, on the pert of h. able Friend, disclaimed their being intends mins/ore, and therefore t'tere could he no for tl,e Right Hon. Gentleman to vrithdra , then proceeded to the followieg mirpott:- revs 4t to the question itself, hr, i must '- say a taw words on every part of it, ' do so, I wish to say a word or tsso fallen from the Hon. Gentleman who spoke termed to infer that my Hon. Friend introduced this besiness, as if to criminate Hon. Gentlem.:n ; and. in support of le alluded to what I said on the end and debase, on the cf May. The whither, WO should tee stand over , and I expressed a wish that it shrte as possible, in order that we might der a disgraced Administ rai km. In d pressien, I referred dire. lv to IF sidle, as forming a part, and that se deavoer to get Wm nut c it as speedill Now. Sir, I do assure die Hoe. Gent. the House, that there is 1,0 rransadinn could tire me grower pain, and i sho sincerely sorry as any man up in earth. i' had occurred in these Regrets to criceioa Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Pitt) as much done Viscount Nleiv,ila; for, though , lives have ever been opposite, thougi every instance we have disagreed upon jects, and though I have frequently bl litical conduct; yet I sheuid have felt uneasy and unhappy, if it had turned out been unworthily corrtee, or had soiled' the tnanner he has thought we meant him: upon investigation, it certainly has turned out otherwise. If I consider a man guilty of once devi ating from the principles of the law. I limit that consideration, and do not reervl7 think it necessary t > state a suspicion, but to d cl ore my sentiments thereon : I do therefore cischa g: all su h suspicion, and not only that, but I d ay that ti • m the.very beginnlng of the trenseetion Jews to the present moment, I never did cusped, I never had the slight. est suspicion of the Right Hon. Gent. and worn every speciemof corruptim I da delart most solemnly my mind has most completely acqeitted lien. But of negligence, of a d eelvaion ot du.y, or 4 breach of the laws of his country, that is another question. Then, first, upon the business ot. Mr. Italkes's communication with the Hennureble Gen tl:man ; my Honout.ible Friend (Mr W itbread) had a right to advert to it, and I shall take the li berty of making sortie comments upon this part of the question. If those (As were trite, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had taken no re:it-oaf that communication, it would then turn out that he had incurred a very considerable cegret of blame. What would have been the opinion in any ether country, when it should be said that the First Lord of the 'rreasury hid received such a com munication, and passed it over in site ce ? Was not a communication from Mr. Raikcs np, n sheds a sobjed a sufficient r ound for enquire ? But I now find the Right Hon. Gentleman did m ike that en quiry, and very Leavy blame indeed must have fol lowed if no enqrciry had t-sken place ; this also has turned nut otherwise ; and, for very obvious le rms. I will not now enlarge upon t ;is subjod, Is `I bla.l him with more than is necessary; it was possible, that when he received this information front Mr. Raikes. he use-I extreme diligence ; from his eon neaion with Viscount Melville, and the habits he was in with that Noble Viscount, it was impossible to say Ns should not have prosecuted that enquiry, and satisfied his own mind com pletely upon the subjed ; the blame attributed to Viscount Melville Ss in the inverse ratio, attrihu table to the Right ',len. Gentleman. When the Right Hon. Gentleman knew the.. the money was careied from the Bank of England to a Prive• Battker, it was einefirie a breach ot the AR Of PIA beam Iv ; bat at the same time that I say it ." , • :h might have been irtemedi.ble. every book and voneher proditeed, was eased for at Sir, that Boyd and Benneld were I the instance of tie Hun. Gentleman. and no impedi- - or the Emperor, in traiismitting merit whatever thrown in the way of their examine- lr of that loau, which 110 hope- tion. The Honourable Gentleman had been most lowed to negotiate in this cowl- indefatigable in his exertions, and he rout say there Parliament then thought the fate was not a Member who sat there, that did not do 'pend. At such a period, was it justice to the talents of tie Hon. Gentleman. He t a Minister, who wished to then came to the suhjeft on w'.o.ch he intended to pinion of his King, who was move his resolutions. Mr. Jelam. it appeared end strengthen the nearest. dear- clearly, was found i.t the ofli:e by Viscount Mel- eant interests of the cotintry,with vile, and having become a detainee in the money F which he is entrusted, should entrusted to him, an extent itsued against his efft3s. is and alacrity, and not, by he.i- It had been said, that nothing was done wider it. le welfare of the nation ? I own, He should be glad to know how it was male nut y did the necessity appear to me that nothing had been received, when it appeared, lation, that on my own respon- that there was one sum of 1,0001. and upwards, and lo again, I should, under similar another of upwards of 7,0001. had been recoveted. M tees, aa in the same way, though There was also a sum of 40001. that had aetla iy t sure to meet the censure of been advanced to the son as a gift, to :et him for- there is nothing I should more ward in business ; but this .plearing on the father's In fall, Sir, I candidly confess, books as a debt against the son, an extent hid issue 3 • I • responsibility, I did give this against the effeifts ref the son, and 2.0001. had been iurposes I have mentioned.— recovered under it. The other 2,0031 remained tal- ly reasons to the lions, for paid. It was not necessary, he said, for hire to and if I have thereby ineurred trouble the House with the forty thousand Kr . it-tAi I shall bow subinis . ively to their whatever had been said on that subjeEl, was little teive whatever punishment they more than a recapitulation of the evidence. 11 - iserving of, with every degree of Right Honourable Friend has fully thewn the ne- , 1 r ; happy, at the seine. time, Sir, cessity, and. that was surficient. A great dent that severe TT/71013e which must had been said abnin a Bill of Indemnity. It was through life, bad any mischief mi l true a 1341 a Indemnity was the regular niode, coo-roo duo Have do ape lure vevious qurstion ; Is:e, whether the -.v.utirns as erimi- was Teddy to with- Opporl as tide of fn. err. Ho':se to it the resolutions ight Hon. Gentle- in of his floor:ur- ns: intended at cri- uld he no occaarot to withdraw. He purpott —tt With i must beg leave to sf it, but bvfore I tuo on what has who spoke I or.. He Friznd ant I lvd triminate the Right 't of hos srsp , sttiou. and close cf the question then was. for a certain time./ h• .41 be as short toii. , ,ht not ad tin- Ili using that ea- to Viscount Mel- that we should en- spevdily as p:rable. Gerttkman, and ransadioil w!!a•., , ver ,nti i should be as earth. if :c.y thing crimioate Vie Right much as they had sough our p.ilitical , ;hough in almost I upon pciitical =b- ody Elaaied his pn- • ore felt exec-diogl y or.ed out that he bad I suilvd his heeds in 1 - leant to attribute to ~only has turned out