The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-03-15 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMBAT. MOOSE OP LOWS.—TauItSDAT, MARCH 14. ROOS PEERAGE, arc. Their Lordships rewslud into a Committee of Privileges, and Lord WALSINGHAM having taken the Chair, the con sideration of the claims to the above Barony was resumed. SOON evidence was put in on behalf .of a recent claimaw.— After which a petition was presented on the part of his Grace the Duke of Rutland, asserting his right to the llaroay in question, and praying leave to be heard by Counsel in sup • port of the - .me. Phis promed.ng was urged be Lord DYNEVOR, on the pa-t at his Grace, who concluded by meting to toe affect as praye I by the petition. The LORD CHANCELLOR made a few observations as to the then state of the proceedings before the Committee,which oneinated in the claims put in by Lady Henn. Fi•reerald, as one of the coheirs of a legal possessor. He adverted to the Standing Order, which called upon a Petitioner to deliver a printed statement of his case within fourteen days after such Petition being presented. The Order being read, the Agent of his Grace was called to the Bar, and informed of the pro • seeding called for by the Order. In consequence of what • had recently occurred, it was agreed be their Lordships, that the further consideration et the cue should be adjourned till Tuesday fortnight. The Committee made some progress in the consideration of the Petitions of certain Irish Peers; and the reside of the day's proeeedings 14.24, that the Chairman be directed to move, that William Lord ll.dhain had made rood his claim to the right at voting at rim-noes of Peers; to sit in Parliament, Sc. The House was then reteste d, and after prayers were read, Lend WALSINGHAM reported to the House, as above, settordinily. The Bills upon the 'ale were forwarded in their respective stages, Among these, the Salt Duties Bill was read a second time; and tire Pleasure Horses Duty Bill was read a third time sod paned. The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM deemed it in cumbent on him to call their Lordships' attention to certain alterations which had been made in the Mutiny Bill then upon the table. What he princi pally referred to was, the new regulation with re sped to Regimental Courts Martial—principally that of taking evidence upon oath. The sullied was of importance, and well worthy the attention of their Lordships. He thought that some Officer of a civil nature should be appointed, such as a Deputy Judge Advocate, to report the proceedings in such cases to the proper Officer. It was not his intention then to trouble their Lordships with any motion upon the subjed. What he sue ges:ed vr.is merely with a view to call the Noble Earl's atten bon, in whose peculiar province consideratior.s of the kind lay in that House, to the sulsjeft, in order that the alterations alluded to might he explained, and the subiad otherwise undergo some necessary discussion, pending the progress of the Bill through that Home. Lord WALSINGHAM begged leave to ob serve, that what had fallen fiorn the Noble Mar quis was, at least, preriature. The Bill in gm,- tion had not yet been read a second time, nor was there yet any motion before the House to that el - - fed. The detailed considerations seftirred to by the Noble Marquis could alone be regularly discuss ed in the Committee, previous to which stage, it was the intention of his Noble Friend to give the necessary explanation to the House. The Earl of CAMDEN shortly after appeared is his place, and, in movirg the second reading of the bill, 21i/email generally to the alterations which -k had been deemed expedient or salutary to intro duce intel the 'resent Bill. and which, he thought, Could he mows regularly discussA in the 03111- Sittig : as the power given to Magistrates on cer tain occasions; the regti:ations respeding the horses .ref General, and other Officers ; and the improve s*** of the flan of Regimental Courts Martial, which went to Movie a strider correftness of pro. coedirg ; duo were also other alterations to which /tie should not then particularly advert. The Duke of CL A REN'2E enquired in what rage the Bill then4as ? On His lioyal Highness being informed, it was about to be read a second time, he observed, he should not oppose tile proceeding, knowing the ge neral importance of the measure to the well-being of His Majesty's land forces. But, thinking that some of the detailed regulations of the present Bill would have a pernicious effed, as to the discipline of the troops, he 'build take an opportunity of discussing them ;n the Committee. The Bat ems then read a second time, and, on the motion of t'Ar Earl of C•MDIII, committed for to morrow, and the Lords ordered to be summoned oa the occasion. NAVAL DOCUMENTS. The Order for summoning their Lordships for the service of the House on this slay being 'cad ; The Earl of DARNLEY rose and observed, that. as be had stated on a former occasion, the principal objea of what he was about to move was, a comparison between the conduit of the late, and that of the present Board of Admiralty. In bring 113F this forward, he should trouble their Lordships with a number of motions, but not with entering. on the present occasion, into a wide field of discussion. With respeft to the late Board of Admiralty, there solve two leading considerations urged against it, from certain quarters ; the first of which was, that a sufficient quantity of small craft had not been pro vided for the exigencies of the service ; and, second ly, that they had entered into no contraas for the building or repel' Lig of ships of war in the mer chants' yards. What he was about to require would tend, among other points, to elucidate the merits of these questions. With respell to the con duit of the present fic,ard. of Admiralty, one promi nent consideration was, its having bought up for the service of Government a great number of ves sels of different descriptions: Of these, from the very best information he could obtain, from pro fessional men, and others, there were many unfit for service, and several purchased at a rate tar be yond their aLlual value, even were they, in point of fa& fit for service. and several were obliged to undergo an expensive repair, in the King's yards. With a view to procare the necessary information on this head, he should have to move for a list of all the vessels purchased for the service of the navy, since the liith of May, 1804 ; distinguishing from when h cha de. the vat at on, separately. &c. Navy lue pi re d war, 'raver, of These far cer • ; and :arriesi by such vessels. the calibre of the cameo, Ike. There were certain parts . of the general subject to which he had 'more particularly to. call their Lord ships' attention; and, to enable him the incite effectu ally to do that, he should have to move for a list of the ships repaired in the merchants yards since June 1804 ; a list of the ships of war ordered to be built since that period, specifying the dates of such orders, and also an account of the number of ship wrights, Sec. borne in all the yards on the Ist of March, 1805. With respell to is important point, it would ap pear, notwithstanding all that had been said, that a greater number of these were in employ on the Ist of March 1804, than on the Ist of March !Ma. In establishing this position, his Lordship enumerated the number of artificers, Sec. employed at the dif ferent respedive pericds, the aggregate of wlii, appeared to be. that on the Ist of March 1804, there were 3336 employed; and on the 'same day in t h e present year 3214, making a difference in favour of the former period of 122 men. The Noble lEarl made some observations on what he - conceived to be the essential differences between ships built or re. paired in the royal dock yards, and those built or repaired in the merchants yards, which, by every thing he could caeft, was greatly in favour of the former. Added to this, was the consideration of the enormous prices paid by the present Board, which no rise, either in the prices of timber, materi als, or labour, could-by any means warrant. In this view of the subjed, it had been represented to him, as a fad, that in the buildhig of the ship Ajar, for in stance, a di fforenee ofabout 30,0001. would have taken place. What he had stated to their Lordships was, he conceived, ample ground for the pi-ea:Judson of the required documents,-which position, he doubted not, would be conclusively established, did the state of the Noble Earl's health, near him (St. Vincent), permit him to take part in the debate. To bring this part of the subjea before the House, he should have to move for the p rices paid for building and repairs of His Majestys vessels at different periods. He censured the mode adopted for repairing the King's vessels of late years, with the exception of that adopted by the late Board of Admiralty, as highly objedionable. particularly in paint of ex pence, as it appeared that for the repairs of a certain number of vessels, 298,15841. had been paid, where as, under another plan, the sane vessels could be new built for 158,1741. He di! not mean, at pre sent, to offer a word, as to his opinion of the compa rative merits of both Boards, in other respeds, and he horse he had said nothing which could be fairly ciiinstrued as personal to the Noble Viscount, or any other meniber of the present Board of Admi ralty. Such was not his intention His wish was to procure that degree of inform' ion whie'l ha con sidered net. ..scary to enable their Lordships to under stand a subject, cerainly of great national import ance, and on which a greet data had iately been said, the particular suh;.e9 of which the Motions, he had sketched an outline of, and injeed other topics, eon 'rated with it, was one in various points of view, well worthy the attention of Parliament. In the pro gress of whatever discussions might ensue upon these topics, the p iifessional knowledge and experi ence of the Neiblo Earl, lately at the head of the Board of Admiralty, would throw considerable light. Great praise was due to the Noble Earl for his resolut:bn and patriotic exertions, in endeavour ing to clean the Aueean Stable of naval abuses. He should na longer det-iin their Lordships, but beg leave to propose hi; &at Witten. which was, in effect, as above stated, "for a list of all the ships purchased since the 16th of May, 1804, specifying the respedive amoucts of tonnage, distinguishing from *llOlll purchase.', amount valued at, and sums aftually paid, ecc." On the question be're r"t. LOrd Viscount M e LVILLE rose; he observed, that, having no obj- aloes, g nerally :peaking, to the Motions of the Nubl- Li r z he should have scarce . ly any thing to trouble their Lords/rips with, upon the subject, because, as Ito Noble Earl very pro perly observed, that whtevar conclusions may be drawn relative to the comparative merits, as to what._ ever investigation it may possibly be thought proper .do institute, respecting the conduti of the,present or former naval administrations, it may be 'drawn or had more satisfactorily when she papers moved for should be before their Lordships. Hethoughtit right to enter so far, but not farther, hat° that past of the subject, lest he should be thought in any degree to shrank from any enquiry into the points in discussion which any Noble Lord might think proper to bring forward. With ri-sped to e prominent consider ation, in particular, adverted to by the Noble Earl, he could not refrain from saying's few words, viz. that he had to plead guilty to Vie charge of blame, if such it might be, • f having given his best and earnest advice, tor the propose of having ships built and rep tired in merchants y lids. And he had to state, uaon that part of the su jet, that he confidently hoped to be able to prove that. whene ver it should come regularly under the consideration of their Lordships, that he had given such advice, from a full convidion, the the safety of the coun try, at the time, & pended on his doing so, because, he saw no other means, by which the naval force of the country, under tie existing circumstances, could be upheld. W.th :e•ped to tit. Nable Lord's propositions relative to the profuse ear nditure in the purchases and repairs of the vessels in question, and that all which nue) t le ter and cheaper per formed in the King's Yards; all he would then say was, that whenever that part of the subject should come in a regular and detailed way before the House, he hoped to be able to establish very different conclusions. He would only beg to observe, that)be pradice was adopted, more or less by every Board of Admiralty that ever yet existed in the country. This mode was recurred to by every Naval Admini stration; in periods of war particularly, recourse was had to the merchants' yards. The practice may possibly be wrong; but it was erne which all former Boards of Admiralty had adopted. No person, out of choice, would certainly have re course to the merchants' yards; but the necessity of the case always operated, and long experience evinced, that, even were there a sufficiency of nsa terials, the navy could not be kept up by means of the King's yards alone. He begged to state a single • fad. fur the information of their Lordships, upon this pint of the subje3, that out of 8! ships 110 W to commission, not less than :45 were built within the last year. What he had stated was the uniform practice. The present Board of Admiralty was not singly culpable; if culpable, the pradice could be proved in that reaped.: If the Nobly Ear' 1 could pr or e, that from want of care, or a proper exercise of their powers on the part of the presesidlioard of Admir ilty, the naval concerns of the cowry suffered, he would then speak to the purpose. Much had been said of the increased emences in the build ing and repairing of ships ; bat, let aseir Lordships take the ohvinus circumstances of die case into their consideration ; let them look to every other thing in life ; let any Noble Lord say, whether he could build a house now at the same espenee he could fifty years ago ? The question of building and re pairs in the merchants' yard., was one of fair pub lic discussion, and, when it was regularly before the !louse. he would give a detailed opinion upon it.— There WtS another topic which seemed to be involv ed, a compel ison of the me-its and respedive fitness of the person now, and the Noble person lately, at the head of the Admiralty department : there was no ne cessity fit entering upon that consideration at present. For his own part, he wished to avoid it. Observations on that particular part of the subjed would more properly come from others. However, in justice to former Naval Ministers, he could not refrain from observing, that the Navy of England, under the administration of men, not professional, had not gone to pieces. To the naval administration of one Noble Lord in particular (now no more), he might safely refer, that of the late Earl of Sand wich. Now when posterity refuses not the justice to that Nobleman's Ministerial merits, which, perhaps, was denied to it in his life time, it could not truly be said that the Navy stir ' fered by being intrusted to his care. Under whose administration were the Naval glories of the late war atchieved ? Not while the Navy was under the diredion of professional men. In that epoch the glory and brilliant charaaer of the Navy stood as high, if not higher, than at any former period, and as high, as perhaps, it would at any future period. With respea to the subjeO to which the Noble Earl's motion referred, there were several other docu ments which it would be necessary to submit to 0 their Lordships, in order to have it fully under stood ; and these he should think it his duty to bring forward himself. In regard to the informa tion called for by the Noble Lord, he had no ob jelion to make to any of its material points— there were one or two matters which he hoped, upon a teconsideration, the Noble Earl would not think it necessary to press for. He alluded, for instance, to the propriety of calling for the opinion of officers serving on board certain ships, as to the state and condition of those vessels. These perso ns might n , ,t he altogether free from certain in flu en ces on certain occasions; they should not be surprised to hear complaints made at the beginning of a Spanish war, of a ship being a bad heavy sailer. IA lead laugh). Documents of that particular de scription were, he thought. not fit to be laid before Parliament. The Noble Viscount adverted to one or two other points in the string of motions described by the Noble Earl, as objedionable in certain ponts of view, or impraaicable to be pro cured in the way stated. These the Noble Earl ag• eed not to press; and the questions were seve ra.ly put upon the rest cf his Lordship's Motions to ttvz general effea, as described in the Noble Earl's speech : they were, in the course of some convet sat:on, chieti. t.f an explanatory nature, :rid between the Earl of DA it4LLY, the Duke of CL. A itE.Nrl:, the Loan CusweLi.t.oft, and Lord Viscount M.A.- vi [AA:, sevet ally agiee.l to by the House ; and it was understood, that the additional documents ad verted to by the last-mentioned Peer, as necessary to the full understanding of the subjea, arc proposed to he laid on the Table by his Lordship on Monday next.—Adjourned. when such purchases were made, the value pt and sums aitually paid for, each vessel sepal- Ile should also move fur copies of all letter which passed between the Admiralty and Boards, and other offices, respefting those ship . presenting their unfitness to serve as ships of &c. particularly a letter from Captain Fras the Hnuiostait, and the Captain of the Ilyase. •documents were necessary to illustrate how fa taro vessels were tit for the service of the navy likewise an account of the number of gnus c. • ~4 TIOVSF. OF COMMONS. Mr. BOYD AI,E.X.INDIR r esent.d ievetal Petitions from different pans of Scotland, against the Hill for imposing , i ii additional duty on Salt, which were onlered to sir 011 the t b'e. The Re.olut 1011 of the Committee on the Sugar Draw to.ici: Duey B II woo, agreed to, and a Rill ordered to be bruuktt ut upon it. Mr. IIIfiKISSON gave notica, that he should to morrow more, that co much of th last Act as referred to the Du' te, Ireland be referred to. C•tmnutt :+s Th.. same G...otkonan, in the absence' of the Chancellor of Cie Ex:bower, gars notice, that hot Kiehl Hon. Etion.l omit,' elder his motion for allowing Militia Sol,ll,ra to Cllll , t . into the Mittia, from to morrow to Nloml.iy next. Ile o.en pre,enterl an account, pursuant to order, of all tun: of nionoy !said by the Exectit..r4 of the Lite lion. Kenji Stuart, ut discharge of the arrow; due by !Urn to Governmeitt, in 1794. Ordered to lie on the tables A Nit-nage tr..,0 the Luck announced, that they had agreed to the Pleasure I Int,e Duty and some, private kills. IRIS!! AFFAIRS. Mr. J. FITZGERALD, after a few prefatory olssereations, moved. that dime be laid before the House au account of the charges outstanding on the surplus of the consolidated fund of Ireland, and of the sums paid thereon, up to the 5.h of January, 1805. Mr. FOSTER said, he had no other objeaion to the motion, than that be did not know how the sur plus could be made up, until the proportion which Ireland was to pay to the general ezpences of the empire should be ascertained; and that, therefore, the motion could not answer the Right Hon. Gen tleman's purpose. Mr. FITZGERALD thought there was no ground to suppose it would not answer his purpose, as he had not yet explained it. The SPEAKKR acquainted him, that it was usual, on such occasions, to state the objea of the motion. Mr. Fl IZGERALD then explained, that the objea of his motion was to ascertain the propriety of the statement made last night, that the charges on the surplus of the fund made it necessary that large sums of money should be suffered to remain in the hands of the Collectors in Ireland. Mr. FOS I'ER observed, that, after hearing that statement, be would again repeat, that no money could he taken from the surplus upon the fund, un til the charges should be paid. After a few words from Mr. Rosa, Mr. HAW THORNE„ and Sir .101111 Newroar, the motion was agreed to. Mr. FITZGERALD afterwards moved for an eccqunt of the sums of money advanced by the Commissioners of the Navy in Ireland ; the amount of the unfunded debt of the navy ; a return of the balances of arrears, specifying the times of pay ment of the same ; and a return df the payments stated to be due, but not payable, till after the sth of January, 1805 I all of which were agreed to. Lord A. HAMILTON postponed his motion re-. . . • speting the barn' ci of eachenge . ' e'rear B r i ta i n and Ireland, from .111onday It Thetela7 next. • Mr. HUSKISSON wt et notice, that sorrow A motion would be made for emir* the sway pay. able on the Civil List of Ireland. He also obtained leave to bring in:a Bill for enabling the Commissior ers of the Treasury to.issue etcher:per bills on , aids granted for the suppliei of the year left. He also afterwards moved for a new writ for Knight of the Shire to serve in -Parliament for King'. Coltnty, in Ireland, in the room of Sir Parsons, Bart. ; and another for Trinity College, DaSlin, in the room of George Knox, Esq. boa appointed Lords of the Treasury in Ireland. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the report of Iris'i Budget ; the consideration of which Mr. FOSTER moved to be deferred till to-mi row. The reason he assigned was, that he It, given direetiow for the new taxes to be printed, at that he understoOsi they would be ready for deliv( to-morrow. He was anxious that those Gentler,' most concerned should have an oppt:rtvaity of u , mining into them, but the time note precc. • much. that it %ottli be impossible for him to the hus:ness any longer. The further consideration was then deferred to-morrow. IRIS!! COUNTY ELECTIONS. Col. BAGWEI.I., moved for leave in bring in Bill, to amend the Aft of the 36th of the Ktng, far as related to the votes of 20s. Freeholders un, County Eleaions. He did not think it necessary make any decided observations in this stage of t business, as it was well known that the register Freeholds of this kind in Ireland depended on oath of any man swearing that he had a freehni When this was done,•it WAS the duty of the Cie] of the Peace to give him a certificate of the registr the produflion of which to the Sheriff was suffi, ent to Entitle him to vote. The objet of his R; was to make it necessary for the freeholder to pi duce to the Clerk of the Peace the deed, arti, lease, or agreement, by which he held his freeho, and that the certificate should be inscribed on back of it. He said it was his intention, that after first reading of the Bill, it should be printed, in or der that the persons who feel any particular interest, should have an opportunity of examining it. Mr. J. FITZGERALD observed, that he had submitted a Bill of this kind in the last Session, which, if passed, would have saved the House the trouble of any Petition in the Middlesex Ele.iion, as it was of a general tendency ; and he wished to know whether the Bill now called fur was of the same complexion ? • Col. 13AGWELI. replies!, that the Bill was the same as the former, with the omission of some Claims which were then thought exceptionable. Mr. ROSE. said, that, in his opinion, sufficient ground was laid down fur the Bill, and expressed himself friendly en its general adoption. Mr. DAWSON declared be would not oppose the Bill, but hoped that, as many of the Irish Members had now returned home to attend the Assizes, the Bill, after its being printed. would not be proposed till the next Sessi..3 of Parliament. Mr. ALEXANDER was for the Bill, on account of the notoi iety, that four-fifths of those who yowl as freeholders in Ireland were not really of that de seriptiim. Sir J. NEWPORT was also in favour of the Bill. He said, that neither power nor influence could-at present secure Comity Eleftions in Ireland, while fißitious Voters laid them open to every adventurer. The absence of Members at the Assizes, after due: or four weeks resist:lice in the country, he did • consider a, a sufficient argument for the delay of I the measure. Mr. 1). BROWNE thought that a measttte of this kind should hare been propose.' soo"er, while the Irish Members were attending more numerously in the House. _ Mr. FRANCIS expressed his opinion, that thr absence of any set of Gentlemen did not afford any sufficient ground for the delay of a salutary maws?. Mr. MAN' spoke for the Bill. Mr. DAWS:)N wished to know whether the Bill went t.) encit•ase the Stamp Duty on the Re gistries ? Col. BAGWELL. answered in the negative; after which, leave was given to bring in the Bill. N ESBOROITC;H ELECTION. Lord W. RUSSELL moved the Order of the 13.1 y, for taking into consideration the special report of the Committee of the late Elation for the lio• rough of Knaresborough, which being read, he moved that the House do concur in the first resoin• tion. lle sa'al there was no occasion for his m.. r . • any comments upon fails, which were sat i,i proved in the evidence before the Committee, since submitted to the House. Upon mature co deration, it was his opinion, and that of the Comp./ - tee, that, as the delinquents had not been parties befo c them, and con s_luently had not been heard in tii,ir own defence, instead of bringing them to the i of the l louse, and hearing the whole ri the evi dence, de novo ' it would be much more desirable move, as he then did, that the followini; J.I• • quents, viz. Joseph Moses Allen, Richard ii, Thomas Ahhctt, William Whitehead, Anne . I ••: - ton, William Allison, and S. ilerilock, . • cuted by the Attorney-General. Mr. ROSE expressed his perfea satisfaaion this procedure, and the mote so, as, if the allegati 4 against one of the delinquents, J. M. Allen, an • torney, were true, the Noble Lord who presided • • the Court of King's Bench had the power to sti • him off the Rolls ; for though country attorneys the means of rendering themselves useful and re• speaable, they were often the pests of the ueigh bottrhood in which they lived. The MAS I'ER the ROLLS said, that though he was not forward in cosurenancing prose cutions on the part of the Attorney Ger.e. al by cr der of that House, yet be must approve of the Pt - sent, as the tumult did not appear to be accidentals but of a premeditated and studied nature. He, however, should like to know Whether any other prosecution had been commenced against these parties? Lord G. CAVENDISH replied that be coda stood none had been hitherto instituted. The -several Makes wefts then agreed to. at' after deferring the Committee on the Sugar Dra back Duty Balton to-morrow, the House adjourne4- • - •r •• eat day move pay- tined 'ion- • El the Or 4 the en it L, the both lege, the thi , r the th.t rime. had dii and s:rt irefv ill .men i i :Ai h.) in a ;, re , upon, ry t 29 the no :et el ve 1 the hold. to istrv, B:11 tie to :/- C. Pc 11 , )1.1, 0 1 the et- the •