The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-03-09 00:00:00

Utt In n*l2. lan in, lalhe trisnn It W 4 .110 t !. • , Ma" ' 7Te Bch.:;:. Gl% Winch glory been aftnated upon by our ancestors, and n hich had, both in ancient and modern times, reabied our armies to cover themselves with honour nd renown—to make themselves the terror of their cherries in every part of the world, and which was mode, at the same time, so writ adapted to the form and nature of our Government, which had so many important colonies :bid possessions to defend and protedt in such distant parts of the globe. For these tempi* he thought the dheaion of the military, as it stood at present, was placed in the best hands it could be in—that no Committee was necessary to give it more vigour and eifea, and he should, there fore, think it his bounden duty to oppose the pre sent motion. The Earl of DARNLEY observed. that the Noble Secrettry , f State had complained, that the Motion of his Noble Friend had been too general, and he should have trade some specific- proposi tions; he could not see it in that light, but on the contrary, conceived his Noble Friend had gained r eat credit to himself, from the manner in which he brought forward the question. His Lordship then went into a long enumeration of the number of men raised under the Aft, and contended, that the forces, instead of being increased, had been greatly dimi nished. Ile then adverted to the late change which had taken place in His Majesty's Ministry, the result of which, it was understood, would have been a .change of measures, particularly in the Military sys tem ; but no material alteration, however, bad oc curred. The Earl of SUFFOLK took a retrosped of the manner in which the Militia had been recruited. the Army of Reserve raised, and the general clefts of the Defence AEI, considering it as an objea of reproach not only to Ills Majesty's Ministers, but to their Lordships, that they should persevere in a measure, which must, from concomitant circumstances, pro. gres,ively decrease the raising of a disposable force, most particularly at this season of the year, when the time of harvest is approaching, and so many persons are engaged in agriculture. Ilia Lordship then adverted to the statement of the Noble Secre tary of State, specifying the number of Regular Re giments, Militia, &c. and made some. general ob servations adverse to the mode of raising and using Black regiments for the service of the West India Islands. The Duke of MONTROSE in answer observed, that the Black regiments during the last war had displayed most evident marks of their fidelity and courage in repelling the Spaniards, who had at tacked that part of our Settlements. When these troops were well treated, His Majesty might depend upon their faithful services; and he was well satisfied, it was worthy the serious discussion of Parliament to enquire into the state of these people, and amelio rate their condition as much as pa-is:hie. His Lord ship insisted that the Bill in question was a most ef feetual one for the purposes intended, and would prove much more so, when it was understood throughout the kingdom to he the determination of Parliament to persist in it. The reason it had not been so produCtive hitherto was, because the :aising the Militia and Army of Reserve had drained the country for a time; but, after a year or two, itiwould be found most produetive indeed. The °fleet of the question then before their Lordships wits, not which was the best *Means of distussing a milirdiy question ; it was not a Motion for considcriwg and enoisiring into the state of the hifilitary force of the c. u try ; but it was a Motion for ad Address to His Majesty, to remove his preset* Ministest upon this, however, he observed, that were certain per sons ti be admitted to His Majesty's Councils to day, they would not remain ip that situation for three moivhs. fhe Earl of CARYSFORT did not by any means ..onsider the Motion of his Noble Friend in that point of view ; it was a Motion replete with wisdom, and well deserving their Lordships' consi deration. The Noble Secretary of State set out with a pompons numeration of the number of forces, raised for the protetion of the country, and annoy ance of the enemy, and of their state of discipline. The most ample means had been put into the hands of His Majesty's Ministers by the votes of both Houses of Parliament ; but, with all these adian tages, he would ask, what had been effeeted t Was it a situation for Great Britain to be in, after three years war, after having been m enace d during the whole of that time with invasion, with only 800,000 men in arms, not to beable toretort those threats upon the enemy he was at a loss to know the drift of the Noble Secretary of State's argument, when he talked of such a number of men in arms. What he wanted to be informed of. what he wished to be assured of, was that we had the means of maintaining a sue• cesstul war against the enemy. That we had not only a sufficient force for the Defence of the Coun try, but a regular disposeable force to annoy the ene my on his own shores. and to retaliate that menace of invasion, not by words alone, but by actions. Vrith respeet to the Volunteer Force, it was returned as 100,000 effetive men ; it was not his intention, who was nine or ten years himself a Volunteer, to depre ciate that measure, he considered it a most efficient and excellent measure in the hands of a wise Admi nistration. This must respeflable force was raised and organised the last war, upon the renewal of hostilities ; they only waited for some ci.nstitutional call, to come forwaid t) a man, to give confidenee to the Government, and to deter the enemy. What measures were then resorted to ? nothing was left to voluntary exerti ons: t h e G ent l emen ' o f the country were called upon to head their neighbours and tenants, and to animate them by their example ; but no sooner was this effeifted, than new methods were resorted to to cool their ardour and damp their spirit. In spe&ing Officers acre put over them, the strongest proof of the mistrust of Government, of those very persons on whom they affeAed to depend; but, not withstanding all this, they continued with unabated zeal to ;noted their country. With respeet to the regular army, which he considered the most import ant part of the service, his great objeft was, that we might retort upon the enethy, and assert the dignity of the British nation, which could only be done lay a regular, numerous, and disposeable force. It was stated, that this force am,unte.l to eighty thousand men, for which number he would give full credit, however a considerable de-tuc &n should be made for the army raised for a limited service ; taking, therefore, the Itegelar Army, Artillery, &c. what would be else whole suUMlnt out of 0,000 t not mote than 40 00U he Mended, would be found effstagal. Wes sieu number meant to strike terror into the enemy ? What then wis to be said of His Majesty's Minis ters, at the head of upwards of 16,000,000 of people, amongst whom the greatest emulation prevailed against a particularenemy,after three rears warmly procuringa disposratde force of 40,000 men ? Surely those Ministers did not deserve any praise for this: on the contrary, they merited most decided disapproba tion. He, therefore, conceived, upon the most scrutin ous review of the subjeS, that there must be a radical defeet in the mode of raking men. The measures pursued were commenced with raising the Martin, and then balloting for the Army of Reserve ; it be coming necessary to recruit the regular army, a con siderable deficiency took place in those forces. so that those measures were uniformly desert:Clive of the intended purposes; and this nation, the greatest .la Europe, or in the page of history, left without the means of annoying her enemy, instead of contending successfully against France. His Lordship did not feel that they should be justified in wasting the trea sure of the ceuntry, and spilling the blood of His Majesty's subjeds, in a war so destruiive, with out making some effort to pnt down the pride and ambition of the enemy. The Noble Secretary of State had said, we now have a greater force than ever we had. Whatever the establishment may be, it ought at least to be commensurate to the danger. We were not to inquire the number of 'the forces, hut the elle& of them. It was also said, that the Army of Reserve is now as high as ever it was ; His Majesty's Ministers bad endeavoitrad to provide,for recruiting that force which proved insufficient : most it not then be said, that all which could he done had been done, and after a trial for so long a time, without effeet, could the absolute necessity of Parliament to investigate the matter be denied t 'l'o what senti ment, constitutionally or politically, could the opposition of His Majesty's Ministers be se:tribe,' in the interference or their Lordships desiring an address to Ills Majesty for new measures ? In conclusion, his Lordship again c-alled the atten tion of the House to the on: great consideration, that of having a numerous regular and disp orable force. Our situation, with regard to the enemy, if no longer dangerous, would be not disgraceful ; but, after all the exertions which were made, after all the forces which could be colleeted, we were still open I to the same danger, the same disgrace, and Parlia ment could no longer refrain Ban interfering. The Earl of W ESTMOKELAND thout there could be no objesaion in the world to the gh nor could he see any Oppression its it; as the penalties only extended to those plates which were defaulters in the Militia or Army of Reserve supplies. Lord GRYNVILLF spoke td the following el. feie My Lords, after the manner in which this subjeet has been discussed this night, if not for its great importance, I would net have troubled the House with many observistiimi. If any body wishes to have a true chataeler Of the mca'sdre, I would advise him to look to the speeches of the Noble Lords who have supported it. I wish the Noble Lord (Hayskettsitry) to look to the Noble Lotto on the one side of him and on the other, and see whe ther lie has a right to eared the support of thate upon the present occasion who have hitherto voted with him. In saying this, however, Ido not mean to ter:each Biro or them with want of consistency. I do not wish to indulge in reSeetions uf that kind. It is not my disposition. It is new eleven months since a Noble Friend of mine gave notice of his in tention to move for a Committee, to consider the various measures for the military defence of the coun:ry, and whether any and what farther mea sures could be devised for the purpose of rendering that defence more effeetual and complete? It these be any person Wlln thought it right Men to support that motion, and withdraws that support new, bring persuaded that such an alteration has taken place in the circumstances of tl e country, as requires this change of conduet, instead of blaming, I commend him : but be it for me, who hive seen no alteration, but such as ought to produce a ertatfary effeet : be it for me, who awn convinced this the motion, which was theft ripe, is now still More ripe, still more *- emery': be it for Me to maintain' My own 'chem. ter, and elm the consistency tet rot own conduft. My Lords (is a tevie of ;Ow knirOktion),' we have been told, in a language that no Minister ever before held in this House, and ithicb, I trust, no Minister will ever hold in it again, that it is not the province of Parliament to take upon itself a bnsiness of this kind. Good God! is it possible? Yet; we are told that the military defence must be left entirely in the hands of the Crnsen. Good God ! has the person who has used this language ever studied the rights and privileges of Parliament, or ever read the laws of his country ? Has he ever leirned the rudiments of the Constitution? Hai he ever heard of the Mutiny Bill? and does he know that the Ceinen cannot raise a single mass without the consent of Parliament ? that the power of raising a military force for the de fence of the country must be submitted to the con sideration of the House from year to year, and is, o f all others, as being one of the Mat important to the interests of the cnuntry,more immediately within the province of PAW - Anent ? and yet this is the Consti tution under vihiCh we are told that the Parliament has no tight to consider those very lan and ar rangements which it has itself enacted. This is the country in which we are toed that every measure of this nature must Sow fro* the Executive, and be of its s;i;gcstinin. Good God.: is this the United Par liament of Great Britain dnd ? and is such language to be held in . ; and is the person using such I inguage to pass anithout censure? In dire& opposition to such do/trine, I say, if there be any one Stibjet in which this House has a right to inter fee*, more than another, it is the military estahlish meet of the country'. lute , this is a right which the House has a, right to exercise upon all occasions; but a is paitieularly incumbent upon them to do so at a tlet9e - Wien, in addition to the power which they posseii," tedomrgended to them by the Crown, at the beginning of the Session, to consider what farther means may be necessary for extending and improving the defence of the country. oath* I learn the pewee that tag overturned the Coostitution, until I have learned the force that has sealed up the liberties and ;smilers of Parliamett, I shall caercise my right in opposition to the most evraordinare attempt ever made, to limit the free dten and power of Parliament. But, amhng the mita , thir4s which it hif given me pain to hear this ni ;hi, there is on& which has atrotded me real plea sure. I ti t I with joy chat the langage of univerwd l epprobstimi Seed to be Wished upon the • • ,r57E7a , • • e. measnre is now abandoned, and that soar alterations are to be made in it. The only objeaion diet) that these alterations should not come from this side of the Rouse, but be suggested, by the Executive. This is coming to the truth and 'al of the cast.. It is an acknowledgment that the aa has proved fri volous and inefficient for many months. But it is.a narrow view of the motion to take into consideration only this one Bill. It will be the duty of the House to consider it only as part of a system, to the re vision and improvement of which its attention ought to be direaed in a Committee. 111 as I think of the • Bill, it would be a narrow view of the motion to argue it as merely for the purpose of its repeal The Bill must be repealed, for it will repeal itself. It cannot be executed. Such is the fal. and it is in vain to attempt to disguise it. A Noble Earl ( Westmorland), who thinks the Bill may be brought to bear, says, shall we let those escape punishment who have been guilty of omissions? Now, if the Noble Frail has read the Bill, he will find that it imposes penalties upon those who are not account able. It direas the Church-wardens to raise the men, and it punishes the parishes for the omission. The Secretary of State may speak . big: he may write threatening letters, but he cannot punish. All he can do is to raise a clamour in the country, against a measure at once so arbitrary, inefficient, an.l unjust. This Bill then I might leave to its own operation, but I cannot take so confined a view et the question. Among other topics, it had hen said that this is an intlirec't measure, for the removal of Ministers. Whatever the nbje4 or opinion of others may be, I, fin one, have a more honourable and dire motive. A More dangerous principle cannot he inculcated than to manitain, that where there is Confidence in Ministers, Parliament must wait for the suggestions of the Executive in cases involving the most important and essential interests of the country. There canon be a more degrading state fur Parliament ; there cannot be a more dangerous state for the country. 'Phis docerine of implicit confidence is what the Noble Lord who made the Motion condemns. The true constitutional line ofcon_ . dui is to oppose those measures which we think wrong, and to recommend those we think right. without any relation to contifence or want of con- fidence is banisters. My opinion was, that whether Ministers *lee removed or not, much good would guise, much good might be expeeted to arise from a Committee. Much ofthedifficulties have arisen from the late Ministers. Now if we go into a Committee, we may ascertain this and many other important falls. When the whole of the talents of the country were in array against the Noble Lord (Hawkesbury), he was prepared with the same display of numbers which he has made this night. Indeed, I think the statement might have been made last year with more truth It might be proved then, and now. that the military strength of this kingdom bears as great a relative proportion to its Imputation as that of any other nation. Is then the Noble "Lord prepared to reduce this country to the 'state in which it must be, if estimated by its pn •polation ? We have ta.en able, hy the spirit and - charaaer of our people, and the nature of our Constitntion, to arrive at a higher degree of strength and prosperity, than nations of greater population. must presume then, that this will not b .. ,,given up forehe times& of the argument,' ora' rot ce Popor tinnate to our population. If then there be nothing in the measure itself, let me see whether any chanee has taken place, which may operate in its favour. Wo have been told, that there has been a change of . Administration. Surely it cannot be meant by this, that by the accession of some new Ministers to the old, there has been that acquisition of strength which can compensate foe the deficiencies of the Bill. If then t'.ere be not that assumed supe riority of talents, let me ask, what has been done to reconcile the country to the Atl We have been told, that they have ailed not only in a weak and contradiaory m Inner, but that every thing done has bees effeaed not by their exertions, inn notwithstanding their exertions It is. therefore, assuredly necessary to take the suhjeB into'their own I,mdr. We were told that we had not Months, nor weeks, but that the emer gency was so urgent. we had scarcely days or hours to provide for it, yet this dill is all the preparation that hai been made against this urgent and presiing danger. Itsobjea was to rai:e a large dispose-able force. Now it is a faa s that the whole disposeable fnrce of the country it less by ts So men than it was in 1804. 'the disposeable infantry, I admit, has acquired an increase of 6,000 in this year. but in this estimate I make an allowance which Minis ters claim, although not entitled to it. They take credit for the full amount of the statement upon the table, but that must always exceed the aatial force, because the army. particularly that part of it upon foreign service. Must in the mean time.be suffering a decrease. 'Mit was particularly the case in the last year, in which the brilliant, though bloody campaign in the East Indies, most, among other cause , . peculiar to that year, have produced a de crease. Supposing then the number to be 88,000, and allowing 4,000 for the loss, since the returns were made, the whole adage' amount does not ex ceed 84,000; a force which was held too little at the time when the alarm of danger first arose."— His Lordship here entered into a minute arithmetical calculation in support of his conclusion, and then proceeded to state that since the Treity of Amiens, England had never held her place amongst the nations of Europe, and yet we are to be told by His Majesty's Ministers, of the extraordi nary advintages we derive from a war, which they loudly boast of, because we have been for two years past engaged in it, and it cannot be said, that England is as yet absolutely conquered. He then expressed his wish, that the Defence Bill should be repealed{ and, conceiving that it must draw after it the repeal of the Militia and Army of Reserve Bills, his Lordship concluded. by saying, it is my :ervent wish, that this Motion may have as great a majority this night, as one of a similar nature had in.this House La year." Lord Viscount SIDMOUTH replied to some of the leading arguments which lad been advanced, with some degree of warmth, parti c ularly t o wh at had been said - in reference to the conduct of His Majesty's late Ministers. He contended, that the military charades of the country was not tarnished while in their keeping ; and adverted to their un preCedented vigour and energy. in creating and col- LON. a law d4essive force, in the adual cireum .. ~- . stances in which the country was placed atthe com mencement of the present war. Earl CAMDEN explained. Lord MULGKAVX Adverted to the inrent of the Motion, and said, it was fot no other put pose but to remove the present Ministers. Lord KING explained. •!.' The LORD CHANCELIEOR took a review of the different points, and enneluded by saving. h e w a s s wry that a Noble Lord (Grenville) should have so far mistaken his Nohle F 'end (Lord Hawkesbury), being persuaded that without suet mistake his Lordship would not have es;wessed him self in such strong terms. Lord Viscount M EL VIL.r..E —I lad he risen earlier in the debate, would have troubled their Lordet . ps with some detailed observations upon wh it had been advanced. He had listened attentively to all that was said, and every shaky/ of at-pa-tient • advanced was merely to the repeal of the Defence- Bill ; a point on which their Lordships had lately decided. W;th respell to the amount of the dir poseable force, it was now, taking it only at 41.1'11* men, greater, than ever Britain had, at any 4 1 , 7' `i • r for offensive op-ration ; and the I,t of creating a iisposeable force were kn. , tvn t.. those who had an opportunity of officially ea,o:. i eneing them. Earl SPENCER regretted feeling himself called upon, to trouble their Lordships at that very Iry hour; but, he must contend, that in re.tlity, the arguments in support of his Noble friend's motion were confirmed by what bad Fallen from Ministers themselves; and he must.flatly deny the h nAd po sition of the Noble Viscount; that all that had limit said went only to the repeal of the Defence Bill. • The Question was then loudly called foron which their Lordships .livid: d, when there appeared For the Motion, including . 12 Proxies --• 511- Against it, including sti Proxie4 . . 11117 • • Majority jn favour of Ministers 75 At THREE O'CLOCK the House Adjourned 01 Monday. HOUSE OF COMNIONS The Marine Motnty, the lee 01 Nf.n lter-•nee heron. raen•,. the Sugar Drawback Duty, Jnd ttie Add.t.a.ed Loser Stamp' Doty, sms •5r read a second tune, and nnuotatedlvt Monday. T. • The Kapott of th • Resolutions on the Expiring Lass Yeee agreed to, and «demi to be Welted to a CJI,I int • A 4 A Meesage from the 1.0r44 ennee.teed r that t.:7 hell4frnied to the Loma Sal, Ind the A iddoonal P4411P sth •"-- • - The third readi ag of the Property Tax vra deferred Monday. Lora HENRY PETTY mf.....v1 that there Ile la;,1 before boa' ' House a copy of the deposal M. made ~... tlfe Wan Prisoner} in Kilmainkain Gaol, Dublin before three IC 0,11 ewe elnat. ... the Court of lima '. Bend, on the 16th and 17Th hide - lt. 1 Tare CHANCELWIerif the EXCIIEQUEIt ". 0 . 41. 6 .. I Weide yet had an opporttiiity of ene term, whetner e p mat ipo petitions may nut relate m ion to the pnblx. he As/ NI N'thie Lord to undernamd,that the i .,,idirevinn of thOul, in part, may depend uposs . flat tircuMlLtsiCe. fll s,rAel naperts he had so obieetiop to it' . Lod HENRY PETTY moiled, Viet th:v principally re lated to the treatment of dm parties whi'e in prison I on whirls the NI dion van agreed to. He eke novel for a Copy edam Memorial pneemelaillo flea I ivh Government, to bettallof the said Manners...A*o.mi. TIIE SHERLFFS OF AtIDDIASFX. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER revered th 6 order of the daf for resuming the ad- journed debate on so much of the report of the Mid dlesex Committee, of I r. 02, as regarded the condua of the then Shod:ft of Middlesex. Mr. SHERIDAN said. he rose for the psupriee of opposing the resumption of the debate at pre sent, and to propose; that it be referred to a Itsture d ty, in order to leave this open fur the hearing of ::noun on behalf of the Sheriffs. In what be pro posed to offer, Its meant not at all to enter into rise merits of the care ; hut simply to sheer, that those pertleshad a right to the benefit of- Counsel The -Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt), upon a farmer night, contended, that the evidence given before the Committee should be taken as conclusive, be cause they were themselves upon oath, examined feidence upon oath, and had an opportunity of ex amining the countenance and demennour of the wt-. iiesses, at the time that they were under examina tion. The Committee gave in their resolutions, ac companied with die evidence ; but it temeined with the House to compare them, and enquire how tar the resolutions were borne out by 'he evidence. He did not, hoWerer, conceive how this could so well be done, unless the House should be assisted by the comments of the Counsel, and that was all which lie felt himself di posed at present to contend for.— He paid many cotnpliments to the candour and be aourabk feelings of the Noble Lord (.elersriarn), who presided in that Committee, and who, having expressed it aehis opinion, that the iccused parties should he heard in their justificat..- • would, no doubt, give better reasons in favour of riser opinion. than he could hope to do, who was less ac quainted with the circumstances. It was ind ed true, that the Sheriffs were head by their Counsel bef• re the Committee; but the Heuse dal not know thei they were heard fully, completely, and imeartiefie There was no power in them to for ce the COMTPIA. t, to grant them a full hearing. The Noult. Leal h.- already alluded to, would allow that whet he tai li before the House was nut the w.• , ie of the evidence taken on the election, i,at a se let!tion of such parts of it as ! e crer—ivee. i• relate more particularly to the deeriffs.— --i iii. had no analogy to the genera course of cruet... proceedings.—When the Committee was ex amining evidence, they gave the Committee no no tice of any charge being preferred against them ; and. though evidence which might Abe , ' them was going on for the space of several mouths. yet, when the charge became more serious, they had :ai-.1 only a single day allowed them for instrult•ng their ' Counsel, and bringing evidence in their defence. The Counsel they then employed had so opportunity of - --- -- --icing - summing . the evidence - week! - mitted former 1 oaths to . not bound ther than , asked,whether,soi _ given up hit cam , tip standing. have ilb of the Sheri& ? a they had as they would. it ''^---- eflt :•1, p . •' atel,, • spats.: ell as o deirm• to GK possibly ad to t. t uestioi , arnoll ti who, 'two* lvssof my I Ci•eS, eLeelir ith unity of cross-tramining or summing ap krce which had beat given in the previous and months of the proceedings. He ad- . I the truth of what had been alleged upon a day. that the Committee wee, bound by their o try the merits of the petition, but they were and to try the merits of the Petition any tar- !tan vivid the seat; in proof of wh;cll he whether,mpposissgthepetitioningcandniateh.a up his cause, MP COMlllitte* would, notwiti. ig, h Sbave sand of inquiring into the condnet it erigs T certainly would not ; but if an rd ental matter to iihserve Spoo l , ,tiner it the ~bled of a Special Report. it la