The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1824-05-12 00:00:00

3 / , • 1 < /2 1% d/,/ P.Ol =;7,► :2 t- • ; e /if ' .6 ) " • 4 2 / - : • .. 1 CT - I l b- t II I \ rt4/I.' . , 0 4 ~. i LONDON, WEDNESDAY, MAY 12, 1824. No. 6,689. Price PARLIAMENTARY' INTELLIGENCE. the papers? have you the application to send the pantie► out of the couutry ? Lied HOLLAND—So. Mr. BOND presented ts similar petition from the innkeeperi awe licensed vietuaßers of Bands"lets.—Lsid on the table. • NEORO SLAVERY. Mr. RYNO presented a mina) from the inhabitants of . ton, projtag for the abolition of negro slavery.—Laid on the tab' : FOREION WOOL. Si? W. ROWLEY presented s petition from Stonernerket, with, and other places, against the duty en fefeige wool.— Laid tot theta & • Mr. C. GRANT I're:tented a similar petition from the county r f Inrerness.--Leld on the table.' HORSE OF LORDS, TUESDAY, MAY M. IRISH PAPERS. The Earl of DARNLEY moved that the Papers relative to Ireland that were yesterday prometcd be printed.--Ordered. MESSAGE - FROM THE COMMONS. Dr. , den and other Members from the Commons brought op the of Dividends Bill, the Excise Glass Bill, and three Private Bills, which were read • first time. HIGHLAND ROADS BILL, !tr. _ _ . . The Ai&hland Roads Bill vials rind a third time, and passed; and the British Museum Bill wet committed, and reported without ,mendmenta. SCOTCH JUDICATURE. The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved that the Committee on the Scotch Judicature be revived, and that the Report of the Commis ,ionera who were appointed to investigate the subject be laid before the said Committee.—Ordered. NEWFOUNDLAND ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL Oro the third reading of the Newfoundland Administration of Justine Bill being moved, The Earl of DARNLEY proposed that the third reading should be posipooed, as he had some amendments to e'er. The suggestion of the Noble Earl was agreed to, and the third reading postponed. COMBINATION LAWS. The Earl of DARLINGTON presented a petition from the and others of the town of Darlington, in the Bishopric of Duebam, praying for a repeal of the Combination Lawe.--haid on the table. INSOLVENT DEBTORS' AMENDMENT BILL. Lard HOLLAND p . remoned a petition from the boroughreeve, constable, and other inhabitants of the town of Manchester. spinet r d le w V..Reft 41,111110.111 AM as it new suNlik: IRISH FISHERIES. The Marquis of LANSI)OWN presented apetition from the fishermen and curers of fish of the town of Ralbriging, in the county of Dublin, praying that the bounties on fisheries may not he withdrawn—The petition was not received, in consequence of some informality in the mode of signing it. DUTIES ON FOREIGN YARN. The Marquis of LANSDOWN presented a petition from the fines manufacturers of Dublin, praying their Lordships to take into consideration the duties on foreign yarn.—Laid on the table. TITHE COAIPOSITION BILL The Marquis of hAlitirlOWN presented • petition fmm the landholders and others of ttastle Lion, in the county or Cork, pray_ ,rag toe a repeal of the Tithe Composition Bill. The Noble nuts, in preventing this petition, observed, that the Bill as it was now attentions no longer subject, in his mind, to the objections that tad pfeiicusly existed against it.—The petition was then laid on the table. ALIEN BILL. Lord HOLLAND presented a petition from the Lord Mayer, Aldermen ' and Common Coancilnien of the City of London, in Common Council assetubled, praying, that the Bill now before their Lordlisips' House, under the title of the Mien Bill, may not pass into a law. It was stated by the petitioners that when internal danger existed, and Bills similar to the present had been before Parliament, they did not approach the House with petitions like that which they now offered to their Lorships' consideration ; but under the altered circumstances of the empire the petitioners could regard the nature of the present law in no other light than laying tl e country under the imputation of being a party to the conspiracy *.lgiittllt the independence of nations.—The petition was then laid on the table. The Earl of LIVERPOOL, in moving the second reading the Alien Bill, observed, that the subject of the measure then be fore the House bad been so often under the consideration of their Lordships, that he did not know whether it was necessary to go into all the details that were connected with it. Ail the arguments that could be used respecting this measure had been so frequently urged by himself and others in her defence, that he was unwilling to weary tbdr Lordships by a repetition of them ; but thus much he would say before he offered another remark to the House, that if there had been • change of circumstances, as the petition which had been just presented by the Noble Baron opposite insinuated, he saw no thing in that change but additional' reasons, which convinced bis ntind of the necessity of the measure; for he was bold to assert, that every circumstance that bore upon this question since it was for. nicely discussed, tended to prove the advantage of it. A great deal had always been said about the right of the common law to remove aliens out of the country, and he had never heard any arguments to shakehis opinion on the soundness of that right. He never thought otherwise than that the common law gave the right to the Crown of expelling not only alien enemies, but any alien, from the shores of Great Britain ; but then those who thought with him and himself had always contended that the operation of the common law, as ap plied to aliens, was so cumbrous, that it was in a certain degree imitative ; for their Lordships were aware that foreigners could only be proceeded against for the purpose o f sen di ng t hen nut of the country, by the common law, tby a bill of indictment. .');he Allen 11111 was first introduced so the seethe of Parliament in the year 1792, which was not a time 'twat, but of peace, and a period when the Executive were anxious (and he could state it from Ile own knowledge> to avoid a war; but he did not mean to say that there wen not reasons for adopting the Bill then introduced for tee purpose of rue:ding against the danger that was gathering around this country. Ii was of importance, however, with ref erence to t h e measure of 1792, to consider that it we yodelled after France was at war with England, which was unnecessary, for a country could imprison Ni.:n enemies, and consequently had the power of send ing them away. He stated this to chew, that if it were thought ne- canary to 000tinue the measure of 1792, w h en th e country was at Tit with France, and a summary mode of proceeding against aliens I preknted itself, in consequence of that state of things, how much mote necessary it was to continue it now, if he should prove that' circumstances rendered expedition necessary, when the slow ope-1 ration of the common law, if this measure were given up, could only be brought to bear against them. But they were not then dis cussing the Bill of 1792, or what was necessary to be done at that time. Their Lordships hod to look to the situation of the country in 1t34, in relation to this question. In discussing this measure, he begged distinctly to state to the House, that it was not done to make foreign powers; it was a British measure, and purely fee British interests, anti he would say for the greatest of British in. teats—the peace of the country. Their Lordships lived in times when a grmfrage for political speculations existed, and revolutions is malls (reentries had grown out of principles that had arisen in their own time. A Noblellaron, a Noble Friend of his, who had strenuops/y and coestaeny opposed this manure, had admitted on former occasions that they were living in an age in which there was as great a mania for political reform as there was for religious re focm 3wo centuries ago. After ohat many of their Lordships had seen during the last twenty-five years. and after the country had been engaged in a war of twenty-one years' continuance, which had grown out of a revolution that had shaken Europe to her centre, and above all, when he recollected what this country had gone through in consequence of that war, for the purpose of checking opium that had bem considered, and justicuisidered angerous to the well-being of civilir.ed society, and w ell-organis ed fitment !Mils, be should never be ashamed of •upporting a measure that indfik itsehject the protecti o n o f th e p eace o f countries, and even I families, against the baneful influence of opinions that had spread doolatioe wherever they had gained the ascendency ; and he was the mike inclined to support this measure, as it enabled the Go vernment to protect peculiar districts from turbulent aliens, for' there might be instances in which the country generally might not be affected by their machinations ; but still the conduct of such per- Nos might affect countries, or even families, and destroy their peace_-s fact that ought to be considered in discuss. I lag this question. He might quote the opinions of per uke of high authority in support of this measure, but they might .tes,couilideeed as the doctrines of ultras ; he could, at the same time, however, quote the opinions of those who entateined who were called liberal sentiment*. He remembered a Right Ilonteemble Gentknout, who was always held up by Noble Lords opposite se as example worthy of imitation, when he spoke of madetionsey movements, was always impressing upon his hearers the necessity of maintaining peace under any circumstances, and that any measure was almost preferable to war. Ile used to say, that any course adopted towards aliens short of actual injus tice, In Miff to maintain peace, was preferable to the alternative of war, and this celebrated quotation was constantly in his mouth, Iniquissimani paean juatinimo hello prefero." No per mei was more inclined to condemn the interference of foreign powers with the internal affairs of another country than he was. Ile did so upon the firm conviction of its injustice ; and he equally condemned the National C onvention of France, in the height of their jaeobinism, as he did the governments of absolute powers in the plenitude of their authority, for their interference with the in ternal affairs of other countries. With these feelings, be thought it ply necessary to recur to the fact, that they lived in times when they might expect to see revolutions in other countries, some of them from right and others from wrong feelings; and it was their Lo lips's duty to leek to the peace, external and inter. nal, of this country. He had seen no ineumee, from the year 1792 to the present time, that foreigners had not flown to this country for refuge when their own have been distracted by internal dissen sions; and he should be the last to refuse to any potion so situated the rights of hospitality. lie felt that he had the greater right to allude to that fact, from the circumstance that no foreign power, that he was aware of, had made an application to this country re spectieg any foreigners, excepting the Instance in 180'2 from France. No Mreigner, therefore, could expect that, visiting this country , as an exile, be would not be received ; but he did thick that ahem ought not so be allowed to make this country a place for carrying on conspiracies. They knew that they were in no danger of being molested, if they conducted themselves as quiet and peaceable sub. /ate; but if they made it the scene of conspiracy, Government ought to have the power of expelling them from it, not only for the sake of the eounoy at large but for individuals. The practi cal Onestion was, whether there was anyp danger of this power being abased ? If there was not, the protection it afforded to the country was an equivalent mains' any other objection that could be urged %that it. Since he last spoke on this subject, the arguments that bad been formerly urged in favour of it bad been fortified by what had passed elsewhere, not immediately but collaterally. It bad bent asked, if an alien ought not to possess the power of menus. ing his opinion as to a contest that might be going on in another part of the world? But he (Lord Liverpool) was not of that new school, the disciples of which held, that when this coun try was neutral, it was justifiable fur her subjects to take part with either of the belligerents. His sentiments were di rectly the reverse of this doctrine; and if such a thi ng were barely possible, he thought it a reason, and a strong reason, for the measure, that the country might be guarded against the machi ne- lions of Cflespirstorn, that might destroy the beat efforts of the Go vernment to maintain peace with another power. He would Owe this measure on the ground of British interests and British seen. rite ; in connection with which was to be considered, that it might be the means of enabling her to continue at peace with foreign I powers, and to maintain her good faith towards them : indeed in some instances it would be impossible for the country to maintain its good faith without the measure. But he would ask their Lordships if any abuse of the Bill was row reasonably to be apprehended ? As far as the Government was concerned, it could be of no benefit to them ; for what advantage could they derive from it ? If Ministers were to consult their own ease, they would be far more pleased to be without it. If their Lordships parted with this measure, they parted with a power which alone could revent ma chinations against the country from being curled on wit h impunity, for, as hefted before said, the operation of the common law was too slow to be effectual. A provision had been introduced into this Bill, which in his opinion had done away with the substantial ob. jection that had been made against it. Those foreigners who had established themselves in trade and professions in this country for the last seven years, were to be exempt from the operation of thia law. lie entreated their Lordships to look at this question in its true light, as purely a British one, the object of which was the preservation of the Just power of the Crown and the benefit of the country, Earl GROSVENOR contended that the Rill was uncessalist. tiseal, end the encouragement given to foreigners at former periods ofthe hinorysehilly was a proof of the accareey ef his as. diit "were aware, that although the measure might not be brought forward ex pressly under the influence of foreign powers, it might have been introduced at their instigation. It had been said by the Noble Earl opposite, that this power had ' not been abused ; but he maintained that the measure itself was ' a general abuse; and he thought one case might be cited that had at least the appearance of abuse, which was sending away the females from St. Helena previous to the death of Bonaparte. Whatever he formerly thought on this question, he felt that under the present circumstances of the empire he should be doing an in justice to his own feelings and to the country if he did vote against the measure. The Earl of DARNLEY stated, that he had formerly dissented from this measure, but he was then prepared to give it his decided reprobation ; for he might say, that aliens were encouraged, under false pretensions, to came and settle here, and then they had to encoar.ter this Bill, which was disgraceful to the character of the country. Ile had spoken with foreigners in other countries as to their coming to this, and one in particular he had asked why he did not return to his friends in Engh.nd ? His reply was," Never so long as your Alien Bill exists." Therefore their Lordships must see, if strong grounds did net continue they ought not to pass it. His principal reason for rising was to ask, whether it nu the intention of the Noble opposite to let it ex pire at the conclusion of the operation of the present Bill? He (Lord Ihirniey) had understood that it was intended to suffer it to expire. If that was not to be the case, he knew not when it was probable a rate of things would occur which could make it ex pedient. The Noble Earl (Liverpool) had stated that evening that the object of the Bill was to prevent foreigners from combining against foreign Governments, and that he called an exclusively British object, because nothing ought to be suffered to interfere with the tranquillity of the country. He (Lord Darnley) did not believe that such a conspiracy was likely to happen as would induce a war between this country and any other state. But supposing, for the sake of argument, a dangerous conspiracy to be hatched, had not all the Powers of Europe Ambassadors at the English Court ? and, on their representations, in a case of extreme ewer. gated could there be any doubt that the Noble Earl and his ed. leagues would be justified in taking on themselves the responsibi lity, under the control of Parliament, to send the plotters out of the country ? In extreme cases there could be no doubt that suds a power existed in the Crown, and in none other ought it to be titer. eised. Why, then, was Parliament to be called upon year after year, on false pretences, to pass this Bill, by which the reproach of the poet was yet warranted— " Britannoe hospitibus ferns." go strong were his (Lord IL's) objections to the Bill that be avow ed, even if the pledge to suffer it to expire had been given, be should still feel it his duty to appose its renewal. Lord CA LTHORPE said, that on every former occasion when he hail opposed this Bill, he had never had any apprehension that its powers would be abetted for any vexatious purpose. Scarcely any Government would feel so disposed, and he was confident that among his Majesty's 11l inisters there was too mush real British feel. ing to warrant any alarm as to their inclination to abuse the great powers with which they were by this Bill intrusted. It appeared that there had been a misunderstanding aniang the continental powers as to the degree in which doss country was willing to CONltice with them as to certain great pante of foreign policy, and it might lead to mischief if it was supposed that the British Government might be called upon to alai them in their designs, by removing individuals who were obnoxious to C them. eruanly if the foreign policy of this country remained as it war; and if there was • clear declaration on the part of his Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, of the determina tion of this country to pursue hereafter British objects, hide pendently, and without regard to the individual wishes or desires of any particular State whatever (hear, hear), it was pro bable that there might be a greater necessity for the removal of obnoxious foreiv,ers than formerly. The wars that had latterly taken plate, and the degree ic which individuals had consequently become eeposo4 to the resentment of foreign Governments, had created in them a disposition to seek a refuge here, which was de. nied them at home. Ile admitted that the increase of foreigners in this couptry had arisen, too, certainly from the conduct of foreign powers towards their subjects, from the too frequent deser tion of the pledges given at the time of their restoration, and the disappointment of the hopes and expectations then formed. (Hear.) There could be no doubt that the great influx of foreigners into this country had arisen from the abandonment of the promises of the Sovereigns, to form Constitutional systems of Government; and he should not therefore be anxious to support a Bill that would confer any boon upon them: but as he 'believed that this Bill was essentially reeoncileable to the spirit and genius of the Constitution, and would, he trusted, always remain, as it had been hitherto an object of . peculiar jealousy in both Houses of Parlia ment, he was of opinion that it was a power that ought to be com mitted into the hands of Government. The Earl of CARNARVON said he was a little curious to know what could be the grounds of the peculiar change that had taken place lately, as to the policy of this country. He had ex pected that the Noble Earl (Liverpool) would that evening have stated that the grounds which had first induced his Majesty's Government to introduce this measure were now so diminished that it was probable that this would be the last time it would be his duty to apply to Parliament for its renewal. He bad this etc pectation, because he had heard, from various quarters, !fiat such were the sentiments of his Majesty's Ministers. The House might judge, therefore, how much he was surprised to hear the Noble Karl declare that this was a time when there existed sponger grounds for renewing the Bill than at any former period. The Noble Lord who had last addressed the }louse had alluded to something liberal in the policy of his Majesty's Ministers ; and the Noble Earl at the head of the Treasury had distinctly disclaimed any connection with foreign Courts in the exercise of the powers of this Bill, and had stated that it was required for objects pent barb, British. But at what period had not the Noble Earl held the same language? The Noble Lord (Calthorpe) had ad. vetted to the causes which had crowded the British ohm with refugees from the Continent. If, indeed, the passing of this Bill would induce the Powers . better to keep the pledges they had vin. laced, and remedy the grievances under which their subjects suf fered. (Hear, hear.) If voting the Bill perpetu a l would induce the Sovereigns of Europe to such policy, he (Lord Camarvon) would with cordiality support it. He bad expected that the Noble Earl (Liverpool), on moving the second reading, could have at least said that the danger it was intended to obviate had nearly passed away; but, on the contrary, the Noble Earl had stated that there were greater regions now for its adoption than when it was first introduced ; that there was now afloat a spirit of experi ment as to politics, as some centuries ago there was as to religion. But how, admitting the correctness of this statement, could the Noble E ar! expect, by means of that piece of paper (the Alien Bill) to check the progress of revolutionary principles, or suppress the spirit of political experiment ? Did the Noble Earl expect that a body of foreigners holding these doctrines would come here to teach their principles in broken English? If danger was to be apprehended, it must arise from Englishmen ; for there was no nation less likely , to be affected by foreigners than this. The Noble Earl had told the House that the Bill was in some de. gree altered, because a fresh provision had been introduced ; but with his principles, he (rd Ccmarvon) knew not how the Noble Earl could call upon the House to vote thin provision. He knew not, indeed, why the Bill was to be ameliorated in that respect and in no other. From all he had heard, he was disposed to believe that it was evinced in this instance as in so many others, that his Majesty's Ministers had been led to the result by the advents opo. ration of antagonist muscles. There was perhaps a difference of opi. nion in the Cabinet u one party had opposed the renewal altogether ; the other had said, " at leaxt give us half a bill." The Bill savour ed more of a compromise than a well-digested measure of ture. By one clause any alien was excepted who had contimill e ryte - - sided for seven years in this country. Suppose the case of an indivi dual who had passed nearly his whole life in this country, but who hail lately absented himself fur a few months to visit the Continent, would he be exempted from the operation of the Bill ? If it was wished to give Government a great and important power over aliens, subject to certain limitations, the latter ought to be carefully eon. Mitered and atturately expressed. Why were seven years chosen as the period for entitling an alien to exemption ? Was it because it was suppos ed that it took about the same time to learn the art of living the life of a peaceful subject as to become versed in the nips tery of shoemaking, or any other trade to which that was the ordi. nary period of apprenticeship? or, was it because within that space there must be one general election, the moral lessons of which were such that no foreigner who had once witnessed them, however tilled he might be with wild theories, could afterwards raise his hand against the institutions of the country. If forcignms could thus gain a seulement by residence, why not by mar riage? Under tF.s 11111 a .woman might he torn from bee husband and children. Nt'hy was this pdlier'suffercd to remain ? It was not that Ministers had not had time to go into the details of the measure, nor that attention bad not been drawn to them, be cause they had been repeatedly rendered abjecta of dismission in both Iloueesof Parliament. Their Lordships could not be told that Ministers had not had done to digest the Bill, unless it was confessed that it had been a natter of doubt whether they shoald come down to Parliament at all to ask for it. The probability was, that sotoething in the shape of a Bill had been drawn up to satisfy one party without giving °Mame to the other. Ile (Lord Caner von) therefore called upon their lairdships, for the sake of their 01611 dignity and character, In put an end to it. If it was really wanted for any great national object not yet indeed explained or tie scribed, the Bill should be better considered. Clovernment should have such power given to themes was necessary, and, ail those per. sons should he exempted whom it was cruel to expose to its opera tion. lip Majesty's Ministers appeared considerably indisposed to discuss the measure, but he trusted they would come forward and state some reasons why it should pars. IVas it supposed that no ' tiling less than the bodily cyclamen of some foreigners holding dangerous theories could render their doctrines inoffensive? There had, it was true, been of late a set of itinerant politicians, who met first in one town and then In another on the continent of Europe, and who had never staid long together in any one place, without having their assembly followed by some great public ea ! 'amity. (Hear, hear.) If it wen with a view to prevent yuch a congress limn bring held in the* Wands that this Bill was asked for, he (Lord Carnarvon ) would, ilkiroPootion to hit Ministers, not Indeed give a vote in Mama at the Bill, but retire without voting against it. When he considered, that from the Re formation downwards to the reign of William and Mary, no such power had been vested in the Crown, n period so long and so pecu liar, he felt bodnd to persevere in opposing its renewal at the pre sent MOTIVOt. The Earl of WESTMORLAND said, that after the challenge given by the Noble Earl who had just resumed his seat, he should take the privilege of shortly stating the argument wily the measure at this time was peculiarly neors try. The Noble Earl had stated his hope, that the Bill would not have been again called for; but he (the Lori of W.) would take the liberty of saying, that instead of the hope expressed by the Noble Earl opposite, he believed that apprehensions very generally existed in the mind of the public, that it would again become the imperious duty of his Majesty's Ministers to bring forward this measure. The Noble Earl had insinuated, that expectations had been held out that this inmate would not be persevered in. Ile (the Earl of Westmorbutd) knew not on what these expectations were founded, unless. indeed, on part of an argument lately used, that some such measure would be permanently necessary, but as to what sort it must depend on the circumstances of the times when it was brought for ward. The grounds on which this Bill was necessary, were simply and distinctly English grounds, with no reference us. other countries, except so far as related to the preservation of pencil with other countries, and the general tranquility of Europe:-. that peace and tranquillity formerly so much the object of admi ration with the Noble Lords opposite, but now, as it would seem, no longer so. The Noble Lords, an if cloyed with enjoyment, omitted no opportunity of advocating that poli cy by which we should embroil ourselves in the quarrels of ot counntries, eon. testy to the interests of Government, and equally contrary, he was sure, to the feelings of Parliament and the nation. The Bill waa necessary on three grounds.-first, for preserving the peace in this country; secondly, for preserving our relations of peace and amity with other countries ; and lastly, for preventing those distractions in other countries by which the tranquillity of this would he en. dangered. The hippy condition of this country saved the awes shy of arguing the measure, as fuss related to our own internal tranquillity; but there had been periods, and might be again, which would furnish strong arguments in its favour. With regard to other countries, it was clearly not consistent with the laws of nations for any country to have, both peace sod war at the same moment—the Government at peace, and the subjects at war. He . held that the Government of a country, whatever its fern might be, wan responsible for the conduct of all the persons in its domi micas, whether they were its own subjects or those of other States. He could not comprehend how the Lord Mayor of London could be at war with the Grand Seignior, while the Government sas at peace with him. Government was bound to prevent acts of hostility, whether committed by its own subjects or by aliens. It became necessary, therefore, that it should hive the power of removing aliens. (Hear, hear, from Lord Holland.) lie was applying his argumentsto this measure only, and considering it separately. Ile was not mixing it with any other. This was not e question of free principle/1. but should be treated absolutely as a question of neu trality. The object of the Bill was, that this country might be able to conduct itself neutrally as to all description of states, and there fore to enable it to become a place of refuge for all persons driven by the political circumstances of the times from their own country. So far from considering the Bill to be in the slightest degree injurious to aliens, he believed it was adeulatad to afford the greatest protection to foreigners. Though it affected many, yet few had suffered from it. This fact was pd mitted on all sides, and Lord Bacon had well said of law, Stu its principle was sit peas ad pescea. tisnor ad mum percents,. This law had brought no oppression on individuals, and lad tended to preserve what was so essential to the country—its nen trality and amity towards other states. Nor had it much frightened foreigners, because great as was their number resident here, use much greater extent were freeborn Englishmen, living on the Continent, subject to much stronger laws; yet it had not been hued of that any Englishman had been afraid of travelling oft the Con. anent, on account of the arbitrary power to which be was then ex. posed. The Noble Earl concluded with repeating his opinion, that the Bill was necessary to preserve our own peace, and equally necessary to enable us to afford hospitality to the refugees from the Continent. Lord HOLLAND began with observing, that the necessity of this measure had been so often under the consideration of the House, that be felt the justice of the observation of his Noble Friend (the Earl of Carnarvon), that on account of the frequency of the debates, it would be unnecessary and irksome for him again to travel over the ground which he had taken oa former discussions. He would not, therefore, trouble their Lordships with the objections which he had from time to time repeated during the 20 years the subject had been before the House. But when he considered that the Noble Earl who had introduced the Bill, and the Noble Earl who had jug eat down, had laid grounds that evening, not only so different from soy on which they had hitherto recommended the measure, but di. reedy at variance with, and in contradiction of, their former arguments, it became his duty to mark that difference by some observations. The tone and ground now taken were such as on former occasions they had felt it necessary always to disclaim. That there wax • wide difference, he would coin. pet the Noble Earl (Liverpool) himself to acknowledge. He alluded particularly to the period at which this Act w* tint Mi, for it was not so interwoven with the constitution—not re nt the memory of man, that the date of its origin (1792) was not perfectly well known. Let their Lordships look at the pream. ble of the Act then passed, and mark the carefulness which, even in those times of passion, had been manifested to shew the urgent and imperious necessity for adopting it. The words of the pream bie were---" Whereas there has been a great and unusual resort of aliens, from which much danger is apprehended to the public tran quillity." It was not a little or accidental danger that then in duced Parliament to adopt a law so averse from the general feelings and constitution of the country. It was only because " much danger" might arise to the public tranquillity that the Act was passed. Soon afterwards war took place. He would not say that he approved the enactment even then; bid he acknow ledged the power of the Crown to send away alien enemies by proclamation a proceeding certainly as cautious and circuitous as that with reg ard to other aliens. It might be convenient., therefore, to continue the Bill during the war. Peace come, and the Bill was renewed. From the meagre preamble of that Bill he could draw no conclusion ; but he remembered that the Noble and Leaned Earl on the Woolsack had distinctly disclaimed the very *incl. pies now adopted as the ground for passing it. The object of the measure, as then stated by that Noble Lord, was to guard against revolutionary principles, as acting on the tranquillity of this country ; but be bad a borer authority for stating that as the object of the Bill than his own recollection, or even any argument of the Noble and Learned Earl on the Woolsack. That was a period difficult in many respects. There was a concourse of aliens hostile to the then exist. ing Government of France, with which we were at peace, and we were suspected of a predilection to their principles. Those persons availed ' themselves as largely and factiously of the protection of the laws as it was possible for men to do. They published writings instigating the assassination of the patties then exercising the Government of France. M. Otto, the Ambassador of the French Government, presented a remonstrance to the Noble Earl (Liverpool); and what was his answer? Such as became an English Minister:—" Vou may prosecute the parties in a Court of justice. We have, with. out enacting any extraordinary laws, sufficient to prevent the in fringement of the law of nations by our subjects ; you may promo. cute them, or our Attorney-General shall.' M. Otto hinted at the Alien Bill; but the moment he whispered that it was possible that he might go souks in the benefits of a British Act of Parlia ment the Noble Eel slapped the door in his face. He who was before so meek became furious ; he left the little pad of humility on which be was riding, and vaulted at once oa his war horse, where he looked formidable and threatening to the hart's con. tent of the most warlike of the enemies of the French Government. He (Lord Holland) begged leave to read what the Noble Earl had said on that occasion ; and he should do so the more readily, be. cause every word of that correspondence proved how little this Bill was calculated to maintain peace with other countries. The Noble Lord then proceeded to read M. Otto's letter, in which he alluded to the Alien Act, as giving the British Government authority to send away foreigners who had dreaded Governments at peace with England. Observations to the same effect had appeared in the Monitear, the official organ of the French Government. The Noble Lord then read the answer of the Noble Earl, then Lord Hawkesbury, in which it wee stated that the object of the Alien Act was to prevent the disturbance of the internal peace of the Bei tish dominions, and that to exercise it as desired by M. Otto would not be warrantable, especially as the parties were liable to be prosecuted in the ordinary courts of law. , The Earl of LIVERPOOL—Have you got the remainder of The Earl of LI V EBPOOL—T will said for it. Lord HOLLAND resumed. The Noble Earl had then spurned at the idea of making the Alien Act subservient to such purposes as it was now contended for. The meagre preamble of die new Bill afforded no knowledge of the ground oa which it WU mewed, tied the Noble Viscount (Sidmouth) who then introduced it was specially careful to act in coisistency and conformity with the preamble, by abstaining from glvirg any sound reacts or pann ed view in support of the Bill; but nevertheless it happened. that the Noble Vioeunt had disclaimed the grounds on which it was now argued. Words now appeased mere espetde of Producing conviction then acts In wool , . he (Lord Holland) admitted the object of the Bill was purely . British . There had been en objection lately taken to male the Br itish Constitution • hated:mid re gorilla to those who were not included within its pale and he had .the same objection to make British laws ancill ar y to the p ur p oses Of foreign powers. That allusion had reminded him of another word bandied about in the saute debate. The Noble Earl (Westmor land) had stated that the Bill had three objects, which in fats re eolved themselves into one (a laugh); one object was to peaces the peaceof this country, another to prevent the interruption of Nan quillity abroad, and he forgot what the third was, but they all amounted to the same—the preeereutien of peace generally, which was said to be a truly British object, because it was truly British to avoid unneccessey war. - By the same mode of reasoning, it might be truly British to go on raft knees. read beg some feeentre as • boon from dm Allies, because British interests might be pee. mead by its ineiament. The Noble Lord then Remodel to dis- CUM thg4,lCiple of the Bill with reference to therupport it hod from experience, example, and general reason. This amulet, this peseervative, this jewel, this charm, by which we were for ever to be prevented from again going to war, w Mch was Necessary, as the Noble Earl (Westmorhe i lead stated, because the Goverment desired peace, had been einginally raked up in a dunghill of g la r e:Lc:sures, by one who was at that moment rather tin y than peacefully inclined--ene of whom he mielit, perhaps, without forgetting the respect due to his memory, properly designate es a fighting code (A laugh.) Mr. Pitt scraped up this jewel in December, 1792. Were die halcyon dava of peace then beginning Why, in January, 170, com menced the longest, most bloody, said most expensive war, in which the country was ever eagagnl. (Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord on the Wiedvack had stated, that there was no law relating to marriage urn! Lord Hardwickes Bill, and so argued the Noble Earl (Westmorland), that this country was in capable either of enjoying or preserving peace until the Alien Bill. (Hear, hear.) Notwithstanding his present horror of interference with other countries, he had supported all the atrocious men- surer for which the country was now bleeding and pining, yet nogil in leis anxiety to prevent war for evermore, he recommended i& measure which Mr. Pitt introduced only three weeks before be conn nienca! the dreadful war against France, under the effects of which the country was still suffering. Vet, in the judgment orate Noble Earl, this Bill was the true and only mode of preventing war ! What ! had we never had peace before ? Had we-never beard of James I. ? The loagest period of peace this country had ever en joyed was under that King ; and yet in what respect was his reign most remarkable as to limier:en and foreign na dons ? There ha been no time before or since, wherj this country had received so many refugees -no time when so many British subjects took part, and from opinion t o o, i n f ore i gn wars. Sir Robert IValpole, too, preserved hislong peace without an Alien Bill. Let tile House look at the example of the countries most successful in enjoying pease. Which were they ? Switzerland, and the Papal Government In Europe, and latterly the United States in America. Holland preserved pewee from the peace of Utrecht till the Americas war, a period of seventy years. What a wonderful Alien Act they must have had ! What pass ports and difficulties for foreigners ! He would read &description of the general police of Holland from one of our ablest statesmen. The great principle of these States was, to make - t the country a re fuge for all miserable men. (Hear, hear.) Such was the opinion of the Suites of Holland, as stated by Sir William Templet such was the alleged principle of Holland : bur, upon that priuciple she did not proceed ; for, when the delivering up of the regicides was demanded by Charles 11. that request was not refused. Imthis re spect did Holland assimilate her policy with that of the Holy Al. hence. In Switzerland a different argument was adopted mil acted upon. Switzerland refused to give up her regicides. Their peace was consistent; whether since that period they had been oimpeUed to, adopt a less geeerous system of policy it was not for him then t 6 state. The Noble Earl might say, that all these arguments were very fine; but we mean to preserve a course of policy purely British. Well then, if the Noble lotd mean to argue this quo ton, he had no objection to meet him upon that point. Hew did this argument weigh when examined If die provisions of the Bill were worth anything they should be applicable not mRCI to foreigners but to our own countrymen. And how did they apply to our countrymen? A gentleman, with a hard Clime, colninences some scheme, or executes some purpose, peculiarly un grateful to the French Government: he is sent out of the country without notice ; and on the next day there came forward another gentleman, who did precisely the same thitig, and what was his reward ? The French Ambassador might complain, but now, ac cording to the reasoning on the other side, there was none to meet the evil. In the case Mirror on the part of Englishmen. what an- swer then was in such a case to be given ? The Freoch Ambassa dor might say, and justly, " I have nothing to do with your eases. The ter•olay a gentleman, formidable in his appellatiom did somethiog i and you sent him away : now here is an instance in which another man has done the same thing, and you refuse so to treat him." Therefore it was clearly absurd to meat that there was iii this law anything fair or equitable. But it was said on the other aide bya Noble Lord (Lord Westteuriaed), that the passing of this Boil would be most serviceable to foretieners. It seemed to him that that argument was borrowed from the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woo lsac k, who stated the other night that the refusing to concede privileges to the Dissenters was the most efficacious mode of preserving their liberties. Fortunati sus si bona aotint. But the Dissenters unfortunately were likely to remain as insen. sible to the advantagea conferred upon them by the Noble Lord in the way of argument as were the foreigners, who were introduced thatmeht by the Noble Lord opposite to the special protecdoo of the Alien Act. He objected to this measure —lust, because it was not a statute likely to serve British objects ; secondly, became we bad preserved peace without it ; and lastly, because to its anise qumoes it was likely to embroil and not to tranquillise the country. For these reasons he sincerely hoped he would not be so disinge nuous as to say he expected more ; but he trusted this was the cost night such a measure would be proposed, and that it would at length become evident to the nations of the earth, in the phrase of the poet. that " England was designed To be the common refuge of mankind." Lord LIVERPOOL explained, that in the zorrespendence re fereed to by the Noble Lorit would, in the latter pan of it Innen, that it was distinctly stated, that no alien shall tee scut out of this country for the publication of any sentiment regarding their aban donment of France. He had sent for the document on this subject and obtained it, and from that it appeared most clearly, that if any machinations were achieved by these persons against their re spective governments during their refuge in this country, the King would think it just to take ell measures necessary to induce them to leave this country. With respect to what had been stated in another place, or suppos . ed to have been stated, there never had been the least reason assigned or fancied by the individual (Mr. Canning) to whom the sentiments wereatributed, that some per manent, though, perhaps, different measure on this subject might not be deemed ezpedier.t. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, he hoped the Noble Lord would believe him when he 'nine) that it was not his inten tion to occupy for more than a few minutes their Lordshipa' &mo tion. The grounds upon which in 1793 this measure wag adopted, were quite distinct from those which now prevailed, sod he was perfectly convinced, that had not this measure passed at that pe riod, many Noble Lords who now sat in that Houee, mead not oc cupy the places they now had the honour of filling. If they compared the provisions of this measure with those which were enacted In 1793, their Lordships would perceite that there was a difference as to the residence of foreigners and the liabilities to which those who harboured them were subjected No*, as to the power of the King to send aliens out of the country, he never gum timed, nor could any lawyer dispute that power. Theiefere, though die privilege might be inexpedient and inconsistent, it was clearly not unconstitutional If ii ought not to exist, they would do well to take it away, but it it ought to continue they should render it effectual Lord UtOIIVENOR and Loral lawruPoot. mutually ex plained ; after which the Ilouse divided. The numbers were— Contents—Present . 461 an Proxies - 34 Not.Contents--Present - 17 L Proxies - 191 Majority - The Bill was then read a second time. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, MAY 11. At four o'clock the House proceeded to ballot for a Committee to try the merits of a petition against the return of a Member ler Hossiney, in consequence of which the gallery was not opened until half past four o'clock. ST. CATHERINE'S DOCKS. Mr. Alderman HEVOATE presented a petition from the porters of Billingsgate against the building of the St. Catherine!. Docks; and another from the inhabitants of the pari.h of St. Paul, Shad_ well.—Laid no the table. sir %I .C0M.,111.1q. presented a petition from the Chamber of Commerce in Plymouth, in favour of the St. Catherine', Docks Bill, Air. P. GRENFELI. presented a similar petition from the mer chants of Penzance in Cornwall. Laid on the table. LICENCE DUTIES. Sir W. ROWLEYpresen -- ted a petition from the innkeepers and licensed 'victuallers of Healey in Suffolk, praying for a repeal of the Licence Duties. ' 1 .• BEER DUTIES. • Mr. PITT p_resented a petilion from the innitteepers and Emma viettallers of Mamas+, against the Beer Du d& Bill. Similar petitions were presented by Mr. Etakesport, from 04 lieensedwietnallers Of Macclesfield ; by Mr. Egerton, tom tho-4 et Little Wye's ; by Mr. Clive. from those of Lod/ow ; by h r Joseph Yorke, troin those of Reigate and by Mr. Hudson, fro 0 aeraral'Ailatrates led flagy—said no the table. Colovel IAiriLIF, presented several petitions from the Prer. - mesona of Bollyloy, Clones. Cloneurry. Amirem, Castle Blnney, in the county of Monaghan, praying 1:41t thee might ba &Bored thc snhe prlvJrges as English Freemasons wirsi reepeet to secret serietiec. Mr. MAXWELL ;:remmted a similar petition from the Fno: masons of liallybotough, in the county of on the table. Mr. BALEOUR_prosreved a petition from the fish-curers of di4 Orkneya, praying for a continuation of ibeir bounties.lotig oS 'Ski ;able. • - LEA TEI ER WTI Ei. Mr. WYVILL presented a petition from the tanners of York. praying far a "peal ofineduties en leather. —Laid on the table. RIDES AND SRI NA. Mr. LITTLI:TON preipemed a petition from the leather-sePers of Weise, in favour of the Hides and Elkins Bill.—Laid oa the table. DUBLIN TAXATION. Colonel TALBOT presented a petition front the Easter Grand Ju:v of the county cf Dublin, against the Bill before the House relative to the assess neat of houses, with a view of insuring the more effectual payment of taxes. The Bill, as the petitioners stated, would increwm in a threefold, even in a quadruple degree, the burden of taxation ender which the petitioners and other per sons in a part of the city of Dublin at present laboured. fh • tendency of the Bill would be to create the unconstitutional poste of pematting revenue officers to visit the houses of the citizens, ar-i of making their oarshouses and oilier , liable to a veaatious ;nods: of taxaliun. The pet;tipners, amongst other evils, of the Bill, com , plaiaed that it would hive the effect of increasing the number ue salaries to be paid to revenue officers at the expense of the tidies' , . It concluded with nn earnest prayer that the H ouse Tout(' not pax , snit this unconstitutional and orpreiteive Bill to.pais into a law-- I Ordered be referred to the Committee on Dublin SEDIT:CK'S WORKS. „,. ' Mr. J. WILLIA 31S said he had • petition to present from art Individual named Joseph Sm , sn, against whom it had fallen to his lot to conduct a prosecution so far back as the year 1819 t it war not to be wondered acif, after spo beg period, he had forgotten th:. person he alluded to. The petitioner stated, that he was formerly an artisan residing at Illaccleafteld, where, in consequence of his failure In business, he became a vender of pamphlets. The pert. honer proceeded to state, that in the year 1819 he wu prosecuted no three different indictments; in consequerma of his inability to procure bail, he *as detained m prison for a coasiderable time, sod hc declared that during that period he was frog cony chained to the other prisoners. He (31r. Williams) Wks*” dial his state. meet was coned, and that be had been treated With lam a! rigour and violence. On the 12th of January IBM, the pedtiose: was tried on three indictments, the two heat tharglesblm whit dos pelt ! licition of seditious libels, the other with &Waft a publicasses. log at Macclesfield, for which he stated he signed the sespdsblos. conceiving it to be for the purpose of procuring a peeper r the Commons of England. He states that be ewer = i et a s syllable at such meeting, hot that he was charged on his having said what was spoken by an individual of the asuni Buckley. He complitined that this passim had been allowed sole at large, and had never been called upon so answer for what spas the hea d and front of the offending of that da. It was otenain that the real offender shmild not have been broug h t to justice, sad that for his offence another should have suffered the seem pg. nishment which he was about to brit* before the notice alibi House. live the games of the Members confirming fhb Committee to inquire into the merits Of the petition against the return of a lien:- bee for Bossiney, were called over. The fettering Gentlemen were appointed : Sir J. W. Mitetenth Hon. H. Lindsay Mr. R. R. Cooper Mr. E: Rogers Lord Normeisby Mr. F. Forester Mr. F. LawLey. Mr. J, hit W Ridley Hon. B. O'Neil Nehmen Mi. J.R.Dowdeswell Mr. H. Ihummond SITE. Benison. Ma. W. Imetb. The Bonnurable Gentleman (Mr. Williage) *en ~.eroded. The peftmer states, that on the charges am Oa be ma unteneel to two years impristruntrt ; and on the ether *lege for atteedieg the meeting at Maccletheld, to two years rem% nankin altoge th er, and including the time he had remained ia hs consequerce of his being unable to procure bail. a peelgd of *early finer years and three quarters. Having said thus owe% be(Mr. %%Timms) begged to be distinctly understood as ha v ing had nothing to d o with the motives of the prosecution, sod still lees with the quan tity of punishment that feillorted it. That quantity of punish ment he conceived spoke for itself! it exceeded, he believed, any other in modern times for a 'hailer Oftener. Before he went fur_ they, he would take leave to suggest, that if instead of carrying power to Its utmost v measures of a mete lenient and tem perate nature had been eege adopted, it would still have been the duty'ef goverment, under all the circumstances and changes which Ind take' place since the period of the offence, to have taken into con sidetation this man's punishment. At the time alluded to, a severe pressure of distress had made the sufferingiuties mix up dm distress with the errors of the government. This would always be the case even if the government was ever so well constituted. But the feeling would altogether roe away, unless the people were reminded of it by such occurrences as the one he alluded to. He would leave it to the Right Memorable Gentleman nem aim to decide whether such proceedings were wise, perpes , or humane. The Right Honourable Gentleman the Ch. of the Exche quer should hive remembered this when be spoke on a former night of what he termed the grateful return of a people to comsti &animal obedience. Would it not be well If thiseople heard somethiog more of grace and kindness' than in th e well-tufted of the Chancellor of the Eichequer ? lie (Mr. Williams) to call the attention of House to the case before them. A —r gi7months would bring the term of the petitioner's imprionrner.t to its close ; lie would all likelihood return to society with those discontented feelings which usually followed such severe prinish ment, and it would probably hare the effect of converting the eat'. Frit to a martyr. Mr. JA.MFA said the present ease was one of the many of ens gisterial severity which had amen out of the '.ate of public feel. tug is the year IMO, when the Mtestratea, under the mithority et* the law, were allowedio teconductthnerielves as to pure the truth of the words of Sir William Jane*, when he teemed their powers " the fiend discretion." Ile thought the House ought to tie stalls_ fled of the injustice of the petitioner's sentence, by the fact that be had been advised to petition Parliament by the very poems who were placed over him. Mr. PEEL said, that the petition which the Hon Gentleman was about to present to the Howie comprised two obje cts ; the one complained of the sufferings of the petitioner before his trial, the other, that too great a pubishroent had bees inflicted on him. It WAS otmeenry to obserie that the Hon. Gent. (Mr. Winiams) bad only yesterday stated to him (Mr. Peel) his intention of hinging the subject before the !louse, and Ala the cumstanceoccurredfoot years our ego, two yews before he held his present office, he had told the lion. Gent. that if he delayed it he would inquire into its arevits. He thought, however, that the allegation a a petitioner Ishmael( should be taken cautiously. With respect to the punishment in ' flitted, he regretted that appeals were as frequently made so the House respecting the prerogatives of Magistrates. The Hooray. able Gentleman (Mr. Williams) had performed his duty, and bad succeeded in obtainieg a yerdtm against the petitioner: and he (Mr. Peel) diCoot think there was any thing insisteit in lie present procecang. The iodividual alluded at had been charged on five different indictments; two for publishing blaophemhus libels, we for the publimtion of seditious libels, and awe for a seditious conmiracy. On three of those indictments he had been conyiesed, and tie other two were not proceeded with. He had rot been prosecuted without receiving warning ; hut he had continued his practices after that warning . had been given. His wife 'had been apprehemled at the same tame, but she had been liberated, in consequence of his having stated that be compelled her to dispose of the works. Ile (31 r. Peel) had looked (lathe trial aiid had third that after his conviction, the prisoner had held up h is het in Coon. and said " I am satisfied, I thought you would have hanged me." In the work for which the individual was convicted for caching the people to insurrection and to arms. Joseph Swan ass row con fined, and so far not a (ruffian ; hot was he wrongly co”vireed ? Comparing his crimes and his imprisonment, he sulfarad has than others. He (Mr. Peelj =Secretary of State, felt it his duty net to recommend the petitioner for merry. Mr. HOME—The petitioner did not ask for mercy, but dons. plained of his sentence, which was renounced under irritate. feel inp. This country eeldotnwhnemed such a courseof proceedinga. The petitioner never knew the object, hay, did not know the title of the book for. whose sale he was convieted. And after all, what was a bletphenions libel ? He should like the Re.;nt Run. Secretary to define it. The petitioner wee placed in a condemned cell, denied ion, ink, and paper; his wife in a most dangerous state of health, for WhAt P for a political offence. Mr. feat. Iford should not have sat in judgment on that man Swan. particu larly after the pert the Magistrates took in tho county of Lanca shire. The inipfaratment of four ran land fehalf tor a political offence exceeded any thing to be timed in the antra% of the mnui. sition. He was glad the eetitioner looked for no merry r i• was the only consolation he could have for his unjust mailings. The sentence upon him was wrong, and more from rime when he would, he would be a martyr guilty of no moral offnme, and • man deserving the sympathy of any honest man in eulety. Mr. SYKES' thought thepunithMent of four years and', half' confinement for a political Ahem was an outrage upon all Make. There was however mother topic to which he wished to aide V (~ f