The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-03-06 00:00:00

r,l took plat ' s. end ttey broight iu stteir Inffe ,' perpetuate their mow passer ever the rights '; the i r e ount.s 4 .. and the rale of then Soteregn. his the , „„ sa m ore dangerous and • more IM."1- 1 et i 1 . 1 thin the other so mu ch declaimed againat. it el hitiese V 11.11.3 he could not vote for the previims oration, but ai•er that we* disposed of, he would s . r e s olution, not to p e rmit an y i sh to see stbMtvds lilitary Commander to approach the Throne, ith his Reports through "Y but the Couetitutional Authorities'. Mr. Ilsoutiuku explained. Lord Fouirrour felt. in union with the lion. Geotleinara au the floor (Mr. Bankes), and (moul dered the cry of seelet influence as a htt,thcar. A d v i c e might be given secretly ; but before it could be c. ustitutionally noticed. it must produce an otter( act. Nn hum in ingenuity could trace en act to its motive, and Ministers could only be re somrsible for the act itself. Thioking tit.. on the one side, tieitiler could he subscribe to what was .r i d ill fiIVOLIC of Lord Chatham., It was s aid to b e verV uu j tut.to impute motives to the Noble Lord; but be unrt impute motives, from the line of oidlict pursued, which we+ the only rule fur :lir guidance of their judgineut.—From this he smolt WA impute any but the worst motives. and a desire secretly to poison the Royal mind against the Navy. The 6rot paper contained an op i„j oil or speculation, of which, the Noble Lord had kept no copy, and even on his szainnia te, b e sta t e d. dist the very remembrance of it was rased from his mind. (Hear !) He could conceive nothieg more clandestine than this.—The paper was left for it month, and then withdrawn for the pupae or obliterating all the speculative matter and all the discussion ou the facts -tasted (which m itt be ivingioed from t hese facts) (hear !) and the. g was pectinated to the pu ilic—n bare narra. eire n s anganees, without continent or opinion. ibis was enough to rouse suspicion. and nothing but bad motives mold produce such conduct. Lord Chatham was guilty of a clear and deter ioiuste offence. He bad acted in this affair, not as a Peer, the hereditary Counsellor—not as a Minis try the elected adviser of time Crown, but as a tienritl of the Army. (Hear!) Hit did not think ttet . COUiti, as traded on * Learned Gentlemen, der to statute or precedent—but the case was evi ,l_,A; a subvert:iota of the Constitutiou. The Con. ?:ticion was, he believed. founded on common se; anti would common sense warrant the con itnit of Lord Chat liana, in taking the advsutige of hi. easy seeress to His Majesty, to press a military ripset un bins ? There was another poiut, which had mot yet attracted much attention. A standing army had ever been contemplate" with a jealous eye by the Consiitiitioit, and the omitting army had now increased to it strength little unknown to our aere,tors.- It was therefore the more dangerous for to itparate their *Mikity f their lend (lame. It ought also to be recollected that, the , w o w ,. ,ii* fineign troops iu our pay ex'•cetled all that coal rt cr have lercu imagined, and that a i;rr:nau •er ceintnitvlial a distract in this count ire. If one General then had access to His Ma. lly not soother, or sciy not all ? Much it, son. easy foresee would Ire derived front • 01 a i.r .ence. To pr. vent which, he would feel to vote for the original motion. Mr. Aims' immersed noon the House. that the ~fritluti bow before them was one of vital cause : scum to the Constitution. In the view he should lake of it leo party motive could enter—and bathed any private carisideration could induenee him, it 111Y13 be of a different kind ! for fro„ having met Lord Chadians i.i private life. he was inclined to regard with a taiourebte eye an individual of such .4rotet.eas of mind and agreeable manner& But these things had no weight with him, and he had as chive left but to deliver his opinion as the ishject appeared to hia.view. He would in doing tats strip it of all extraneous matter and look at it constitutionally. And here he could not help etpresong his surprise at the questions put by his Learned Friend opposite (Mr. Stevesa), for whose vane,' and judgment. he had the utmost re otety and by the Hos. Gent. below (Mr. Bankes.) accioairatence with cotatitutsonal subjects, mat ever give weight to his opinions in that Honor. They asked "Where was the charter, the stature, or Wilt Ism 10 po:4i upon this subject?" Did not thes e lion. Geotlemeu know, that the common law of th e land was unwritten; (hear!) and it was strong., that a lawyer, or old Member of Podia- Oulu, should put seek a question. It was not the : l etter, Out the p ract i ce o f t h e C onst i tut i on, wh i ch had been broken in upon by Lord Chatham. He had committed a breach upon the practical consti tution which oar ancestors enjoyed. and which, if sot asserted now. would be lest for ever. With all hi, re.peat fur the opinions of the Hon. Goo. t!rtial (Mt. Wilkes) he must widely diger from 11% in his constriction of what was the Comb rattail. He wis. indeed, surprised to hear frau t?it Hoa . (ie.tticinan, that the advis e rs of the (.'D.II were not cults s:de in giving mlvice. if that dice was not acted upon—( Hear). lu the reign L. the. most despotic Monarch—in the reigns of ikry 11. and ll:chard 11. the Stuarts, and par 'lollit'y Charles 11. what was the constitutional rtlitieluts watchful for but to prevent the Royal Potriwil—not to wait for the Overt act. I; Ras as upon p inciple th a t th e l aw o f treason founded. It punished for the intention, Aid not wait for the act, which was to ler Moniteli in the dust, whose being knit Cie I ttle politic"! and swti,l fame towother.— T th's p 1,4 Nilo not strii tly conneated • 1.1,j. t, it had in isle such an impression i it it he WOlti-iw i lt b , illustrate it by " any one was to advise Ilia Nilestv rn y. ,ieori the Habeas Corpus Art; 1! alai- , ty,know ilw Constitution bet wtr. ill I nom Art in pursuance of , mill it I, • ..iintrit.ka that the not 3 around far par rcrenve n epublic rei n sure %-- din. he 'mated HO IL _ h ill Lord Clietliiim's Nairattve, laud Iwo 0.2 Answer to t tie Address, to prove to t sn fart overt act was, eroilieittrd against the nin• ot of thi• c.. 0 otv—(k ar .1 h ear !) r Challiala gave u, l•ts . Narrative. At the b 114. fr 4.111 the dibtraele.l state of the alight cosily be excu.e'l that his eql. flaa;..alced • f or no accounts ; but *hen Lunt shoey gum Secretory of State, mad the -light Hun. Gent. /Mr. Perm/sal) Climeellor •f the EXCilegiltir and 'first Lord of the Tenney, tbeti it behoved I hens to have called for this explanation, or indeed the Noble Karl ought to have offered it of his own accord. Bin Ills Majesty ought net to have n prii are 'serntairr fir piddle documents. No thing could Lor more *titter.; ve of the Constitution. 14e entirely coincided with his Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham) whose speech ou thir occasion did !din sa much credit. It was no right to catch him up, hecuuse he used the expression of " Cabi net," if he was correct in his principle, which he most assuredly was. Leak to our history from the most ancient period, through the tins iif the Tu dors, the Pluntagenets, suit the U mon of the (louses; they would find that the King, :it the head of the indices, always acted by advice, anal ne ver did any act of his own. During that ',tried, the official ssatem was. nut formed. but still re sponsibility rested with the advisers. There then existed • Privy Council. who were the sworn advisers of the Clown. Were they then, at this time of day, by a Learned Lawyer, and an ex perienced Member of Parliament, to be asked fur statiites and records ? Good God ! surely these oracles of the Constitution, Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox. had taken the knowledge of that Constitution with them to the grave. What avoid Mr. Pitt have said, had he lived now, to hear these quest ons shout the Constituttuu, be co well observed. and so much respected? And he might say, baring enjoyed the most confidential intercourse with that other most exalted Statesman, that the opi 00000ns he was now delitc: nig, were those entertained by hies. Under the Tudors, when the King was every thing, and the Parliament nothing. and yet the racial system under them and the Stuarts grew to maturity, and the advisers came to be better known, the Secretaries of State, the Lord Treasur er. or First Lord of the Treasury, the Lord High Ad wiral,or First Lord of the Admiralty, were acknow ledged and looked to as these advisers. This was the system till the Revolution, when the Bill of Rights was paned, when freedom of !perch was established in that Muse, and when their privileges were eon firmed. When the system was perfected. what was dead before, was vivified, and the official servants of the Crown were called oil, from time to time, to answer the House fur the acts of the Monarch. To perfect it they had ugly to give a character to the office of King. While speaking on this subject, he was sure he could slot be misunderstood to men any thing disrespectful towar.hs the King, for whose beneficent reign and endealing qualities no man felt more grateful than he dad. He spoke not of the person, but of the office of b.ing. Look at Blackstone, said it w ',add Ise found (there laid down, his (the King's) continuity, uhiqui.y, and perfection. The King could alt, no wrong. —This maxim was tint to be taught tow bat to children at school. From this Maxim other nations imagined that nothing could be more tyrannical than our monarchy ; hut we understood its bless ings. and that it enabled us to carry on the business of the nation on the responsibility of lkliuisiers.-i- Any thing contrary to, or taking away from, llsie responsibility, which had so grew° up, and was perfected ire the Constitution, was Si act against the Constitution. Then npply these principles to the present case, where they would And that the name of the Mosarch was brought into the question, and intirefesed with the reepousibility of Ministers. It might be said that Lord Chatham was responsitle, but in so far es secrecy was re. geared, in so rou t + w as time respousibility of Ministers taken away, and the act was 0001 0 0. stannous& This we, laid down in Blackstone; in Coke's 4th Report; and in Coinyn's Di gest. and was as plain to him es it was nessiiile to be. In all our history, there was no j 'errant for such an answer as thle, nobwrithstaintli.tg the many addresses that had been carried to the Throne. This was a presumption that a similar case bail ne ver occurred. Du; independent of these considera tions. the conduct of Lord Chath an was to be re prehended, as producing • double Government, and c.osequently a weak Govern met, and uurecognized by the Constitution. One known bad practical consequence bad already ensued from it, trembles others of which they were not able to judge the extent. The Address of the first Corporation of the country, and perhaps of the world, was formerly no mean thing. But now en Address had been presented by the city of London os the 40th of Deceinber. Lord Chatham arrived on the Itith of September, and presented We Narrative on the I4th of January ; and yet Ministers had so little commu nication with him, their colleagse, as to be utterly neacquaiettd with the facts on which they gave the answer to the city. He denied the right of Lord Chatham' to go in person to the King. It was not allowable in those days— " Wks Martlioreagii conquer% and Godolplllia planed." And still the slime constitutional rule held, that the General in his communications should lay down his character at the door of the Secretary of State's office. The SOLICITOR-GRIICIAL was of opinion, thst the greater part of the Learned Gentleinah's speech, opposite, who spoke last, was irrelevant to the pre sent spiestion. Ile hoped there wan but one feel ing, when an who was necusert, was not present ; the vote then asked might prevent hint from holding, at is future time, any situation under Government. He trusted the House mould listen with attention, while lw delivered Ins sentiments, aml gave his reatious for tiring Ins vote. Where WWI the tniconstitteiunality in preparing the narra tive. or skittering it in secrecy ?—(flear! /wail) —lle slid not stand tip to defend the Noble Lord— /I/ear ! dear!)—but he wontd corder it was an unintentional error ; and no tnan could say it was done with it had design. He wished them to look pi the mind of Lord Chatham, and examine his motives. He was willing that it should go under the stric'est scrutiny ; ret he would aver, that, however indiscreet the Noble Lord might he, there was no clandestine secrecy. He ss-al willing that it should be examined by the moat minute criterion, as he was conti lent it would silly bring converts to his opinion. However uoiaithful the Noble Lord might be to his colleagues, they could arst attribute a a ilful corrupt mot ire to hire. The Narrative was delivered on the 15th of Jam to His Majesty. It was mile out iii Sep . ember ; if malice was in his mind, which is generally carried into isuasediste ex ecution...l)llld it have been ke:4 back such a leag•h of time ? There was notivug improper ja keeping the Narrative from September to January, as it way_ only drawn with the design to defend himself. (Hear! hear!) Thar was the coucluition he, the Solicitor.. tieorrel, drew, that such wad the 'ranee of its origin. Another utgitateot, which preyed it a as not arligeent or perimMent •• creey. that it was nuly naked to in' withheld for tile j oeseot, was, that, on the 14th of February, Lord Chatham requested, in lotted of its being kept secret, that it might gain pohlicitj. It was impiosible that he could .rapt to make a private chard.- against the Navy, and after wards wish it to be prnmulg ted. The wish of the Noble Earl was, that both Narratives should come out together. (Heir ! hear !)• He wished them to hear ; he wished his sentence to be made tosiblie. The Noble Lord (Chatham) waited for the Narra tive of the Naval Commauders. which only caused the temporary secrecy. W hat service would it be to him, to have all the favour that could be expect ed from the Royal protection, if he was condemu ed by the public ! if his narrative ley in the 'acre toire of his Sovereign, it would not prevent him from bring accountable to hiscouutry, it lie acted impro perly. He wished to satisfy the House, however erroneous his judgment might be, that he was ac tuated by a panity of opinion. A Noble Lord op posite (Lord Temple) had spoken much of secret iialiiience behind the Throne,• and hr wished to cover the name pf Temple, who was charged with using the means in the reign of Charles the Second. The Noble Lord ought to have recollected how the charge was scoffed by the relations of Sir William Temple, that he could have advised the Cabal. He was not then in the character of a Minister or a Privy Counsellor; but, to use the language of the day, he crept up the back stairs and ad •stered his poi son. Ile admired the feelings of the Noble Lord, and, lie was sure, all the House would sympathise with him. The Noble Lord's feelings led him so far that, instead of argument, he gave full vent to them, to elucidate, that the name of Temple had never been behind the Throne, or used influence. Wbile the Noble Lord and his friends were iu office, they never complained of thus secret influerce; but after they were removed, they began to court der that not any thing could have interfered with their transcendent talents hot secret influence; they thought they were moored upon u rock, which nothing could move them •from ; although their olkaded Monarch gave the daunt:eel, and the peo ple at large approved of it. Ile would not say approved, for it was too light an expression; but the public voice demanded it. Ho concluded by voting fur the previous question. Mr. Poisoner—sr I rise with some diffidence; after the eloquent exordium we have heard from the Learned Gentleman opposite, who last sat down. He talked muck of secret influence, and argued most ably, of which the !louse sintst be as sensible as I inn. (Hear ! hear !) Ile has spoken as if he cleared the Noble Ea.' of Raving used se cret influence; he was cleared of all charges. To me it does not make a partieleof difference ; if he is ouly guilty of the charge in the first resolutiosh he is entitle.' to receive the censor, of this House. The Right Honourably Gentleman (Mr. Perceval), mid, be would not defend Lord Chatham, yet he would support. hlm. I would wish to know what' part of his conduct he Owls fault with I will tell him, as ha moms delicste; because it has been re prehensible acid unconstitutional : but their inn-. sired> , aaunot fusel words to express it. Another Honourable Gestletnan *lase floor (Mr. Mutes) has tote' you. be cannot agree that the conduct of the Noble Lord has been illegal : I never heard it contended that it was. I do not contend for the ; but I will prove the unconstitutionality, and I will show that one can exist without the other. Lord Chatham is a Cabinet Minister and a Privy Counsellor; and, by having access to His Majesty's ear, he might have poisoned it against the strength of the nation---the navy. That this has not been the case, is owing to the Monarch, whose better judgment would not admit the venom. I say there never was any thing so abominable or destructive. ' Suppose, for argument, that the Noble Lord hail advised His Majesty to have sent an army into this House. and done as Cromwell did; allowing it had not been acted upon, yet would the adviser he ju stified? As the Honour able Gentleman (Mr. Betakes) argued be would be justified—l then justify the present resolution ow constitutional principles, and no other, although the Honourable Gentleman stated the Coustitu. tion had gone through many editions. I ma con. rimed the one he his read must be erroneous —lt never has yet fallen into my hands—l would recommend him to try another edition. I coo teud Lord Chatham's conduct has not been such that a free country can give countenance to. I do sot think his deceased father or brother, how ever I may venerate the conduct of the former, should be introduced as a shield to protect the mis conduct of the present Rail of Chatham. Although I differ much in political sentiments from Mr. Pitt, I am convinced. from his great mind, if he was now existing, he would approve of my efforts. Did he not, when, at the head of en Administration, and the present Noble Earl at the head of the Admi ralty. dismiss him. not thinking him equal to fill the office? I would whale my Learned Friend, (the Solicitor-G a I,) to read the history of Charles the Second attentively, amid he would find that Sir William Temple was not one of the Cabal, but a strong opponent to it. I am desired to excuse Lord Chatham, by my Learned Friend, b. cause his case is indefenailde, that he had no malignancy, and to judge him merely on his intention. 'Then I will ask, was it to injure himself that lie delivered the narrative to Ilat Majesty ? (hear ! hear!) Was it tight that it should be given to Ilia Majesty, without nity notice to the Naval Commander ? The Noble Lord, in his evidence, stated. as his reason for nut civing it in October, that he thought it would not lt• pro per to give it, without out. from the Naval C on .. minder. Yet, he gave it in January to his Mejtsty, with the injunction of secrecy. If he NMI doing what was right, or whet others thought right, would there be occasion for the mystery? it he had any other feeliug, would hr have delivered it in that mysterious vies.? I think there is alto something in Lord Chat lustia'a memory, cliff:rent from other mesa's. (Hear ! hoar !) I s iv different. because 'hero are few MOO who caliaot recollect the tram...at-6*m of r few days twil.re. II s I nolship would be off n led if sit-cooed of irnhc eddy ; yet he becomes his uwn accuser, fore when asked what wee the alteration made in the Nor s..tive, or the substance of it, he was wet able to in f yne. This ittbodedt appears mast ♦xtri- . ordinary. His conduct has free . 61406 t uncoil ; stitutional.—( iieer ! hew Itnnlid nut take 'any thing this midst could roe JIM so draw that expression. His coradoet goes to midis . the Monarch emposerible, sod his Miniate re the contrary. By the Constitution of the rosemary its Monarch is left in regret security, be can do 110 haTOl ; he was in perfect security aid safety but how iufringed en if dust Hesse waste everturek the preseut inuontion, and lay the foundation fee strippiil the King of his panty ? Take the bark from a tree and you will expose tt to decay. I coo tend, give to the Crown every thing it ought to have—give it its natural support, but don't parolee that which has upheld it shove all natio/is ; but make it once ersponsihle, and you strip it of all its beauteous robes.--(Heer hear Honour able Gentleness* (Mr. Bunke.), was not seam that that court. sy was cemetery, that one Minister was obliged to hirers' soother what be intended to , disclose to His Majesty in his (-beet. This Ido not argue or contend far. for I will know that every Peer, every Privy Counsellor, much lent • /Insis ter, has a right to demand a private anthem, of Ili. Majesty; but this could net excuse a Coinusau (ler of an army from giving iota the hand of hie Sovereign a Narrative, with the express wish that should be kept secret from his colleagues sad the whole world ; at the same time it wrest to °rimiest* &service that the universe envied, sod this cautery owed its protection and existence to. It is to that great part of our Constitution that we have been. I meow that we can follow Ninnies,. and that they are alone revonsible. Ido trot believe that,. are a more intriguing race of persons under thchearvens then those of this country ; hut the Conetitstioe had wisely provided for them; their Sovereign lens placed in a s.tuutiou thit nothing of the nature could se. rite to hum. It is more is-eras:l: y for us to guard him, turd prevent ail iiirtiads tato that seeuvit:,, which puts him so much shove all (Aber Mepsiciis. Tue breach lot- Lieu., made an open day,- let ne mop it in Oa bud : if not, it will require au outstare to deprive of ihr bh ItSO.llll. Leek around yes, clot your a -a to the Contioen:, cud is then. an swat hut this, governing the affair, of the tintiso, which can lie called free What ever height imirty may have run, bas there not teen the re a les; corer°, the greenest eumplec. tcy preserved. Own one to the other, except in a late instance. (eke? !) —lt is the surprise of aeteureited Europe, teat in a free Government there leen be so Slue* 'M► lastion; then do trot' let us aillingly 'hive it die. turbed ; but alien it is branght to siew, forced via your conviction, that • part, and that which eon secretes and li,nits the whole, has been infringed, that we are as r. ally. nay, more jellous of the highest part, than we are ler our owe prerogatives. 1 call upon you. in behalf of the-e. smersto rs w h o handed j on y ou. this Comeitutinc, to try to pre /erre its purity by your votes this eight; de OK let high rank dazzle you, for our Coastitsdien says justice must be done to all meth and that all emu are *meltable to the law. (flaw I hew !) I Atoll detain the House but • very few memento, and that is to assert, under the strongest that Lord Chatham has onset streogdy infriegva eb the constitution, by preventing his Nereatiew fir His Majesty without the Imowledp of his erst leagues, sod respiring the Masan+ be keep it secret." Mr. Catrttstre 1101, that he would pat out of his view many of the topics used upon the other side of the House. He would begin with segeitting the Noble Person, whams conduct wits the subject of discussion, of those malignant mid improper mo tives so liberally attributed to him. He was sere that no maw, standing in such a siltation as he oc cupied, could be ineueneed by such motives ; but it was sot upon the question of motive that the point rested ; it was a question of Conatitsitios— and though the individual alluded to was endowed to the country by Mood and name, they would not he justified in making such a man a splendid sun tasty in the Constitution. (Thar!, He must be sup ject to the same authorities to which ethers, undertaking such cLninands, were subject ; for no situation, no rank, should be a screen front ',spun sibility. He was perfectly aware that his vote upon the present, as urn a fernier night, would sot be altogether pleasing to the Hon. fientleatas, in con sequence of the narrow ground upon which he would eun•ider it to be granted; but without mess ing soy disrespect to the Hon. Geatleutais, be would say, that, among his motives for supporting the present quesitioa, to agrei with him was sot efts. laugh!) On the contrary, he felt it some what of au inconvenience to be obliged to tree with him in this iustancr. One thing there was in the lion. Gentlerenn's speech, which he could not he:), Oiserring. and that was. the opinion which he seemed to entertain, a. to what ass the Piro, ri and what was the narrow part •of the utility,. The broad part. set7ording to him, was the petty party •feeline ; and the narrow pin. that which in volved the Con4titistional consirlerttico. lie (Mr. Canning) regretted that this question was brought forward. He regretted it, hticiitose, if decided one way, it must strip the royal name of that irrespon sibility, which was uncnristitutionalle allied to it lie regretted it also, as tending. if decided the other way, to censure a noble person, whose conduct was to he discussed afterwards, together with others of h.s colleague.. But while he dui so. he had tio titian to affirm', that the subjects were not ut interwoven, as to include each other. or that it could he inferred, from their censure of ha conduct. in the present iii.tancc, that they were guilty of prejudging him in the iti.tunee I ere. after to be submitted. The tir•t resolution id' the Honounible Gentleman, directed csud tip mud fairly the tratisnetions as they had token rikee hut the second, which refeire,i the pae;.hinent consequent upon s u b leitiwartii-,s, ~, trio severe ; inflect. he mould t i, : rer that Or, was one of hut. how-ver t.i nii.:l:l thoi.k otron that those (hear! heir ! he arr.. r. entildl not vote fee the questions which Pa , liavicit not notice ClUrb -n .on ins (NM. 'licit. if it could oat he c alled unennstitiition if, • 4a it teem against the ctiee of the Const!tuti•ut—Should they twice ete notwe of such (wand—with a view to the lutenist of the,.own—w tilt n view to the inter:et of the Person e , neerneit, fee whims it wweld be will, if blame did attach, that the roam degree • El )6