The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1819-12-22 00:00:00

hertrion ir'irietey ee defeat—either would be equally detrimental,* liberty.—(hear, hear.)—When the !louse had passed the Bill now before th em , th e y would hive adopted all the rneisnres which the Mt- Morro had prepared —but this r null not lie enough. It war not safttietit to meet the danger ; If they acid Itke statesmen, they thou hi examine the sourcra.of the evil, and prevntt its ncunrncr, they 0104111 prat)e the womitls of the cauntry.--Olerre The only way to put down disaffection was, top-cosi. since the people that their Interests would be CutP f fatly S' rout!, fur the present memiures would tot he woithalie paper that contained them, it. point of efficiency, male.. • i.wrrert unity of interest and sentiment acre between Parliament and the people. 1!y On. n 1,4114 alone emelt' they ob. rip the full co,,h,lrurr tool sUppint or the people, end inure the protre or the C..nalitution, of which it might in one word be said that its chief excellence consisted in making man a nobler heing IR this country than he was in any other country tinder heaven,.( f fear, hear ) E4rlGiosvuxou hat: heard wish pleasure the Otte apteeli of the No b le Lord who had just sat' (down, and would not have nto express his sem timsids, as lie agreed in almost every thiog that had fallen from him, if it was not for a petition Which had been put intro his hand from the inhi bition's of the city of Westminster, praying 11.iit they m'yht be exempted from the onenotion of the Bill. The Petition was founded on what had fallen from one of 14s Majesty's. Ministers (the Earl of lborrovill) on a former night, in his place in that•flonse, when lie contrasted the plod conduct of the Westminster meetings with those of other rlaces, it was therefore his intention to move a dame by way of rider, that Weettninsier should I.e exempted from the pains and penalties of the Vitt. The Fa►l Or LIVERPOOL ►ese 10 order. It wa• impossible that ibe clause could now he proposed, the only goeition before their leadships was, whether tlw 13111 should poss. Ilot.Loott said his Noble Friend could 'neve that the debate should he adjourned for half I n hew, for the purpose of his lir...seating the Petit ton. • The Earl Of LIVENPOOL and Lord HOLLAND mos welly explained. 'The LORD CNA Ncrt,Loß raid. that the (region t. , be put from the Wooloack was, whether this 1911 do now pass, mod atre could not be a new I 1..n0r rubenitted. rid Gaosvewout said, after the explanation frcm the Woolsack, he s:tw it was too late to rub ton a climate by way of titter ; he would therefore peeve, that the debate ►florid be adj..nrned, for the rot r pore of their Lordships earnsiuuig the contents 1t .e parchment which hr held in his hand, which to tat he the meow of their Lordship, raying tltrt rite 11,11 should not paw The Earl of IiA6ROWBT staled, there was an 1 bkrtion, in point of form, as to the Petitiors be. jag met ;red, as the Noble Emil had stated that it e.a. t•roundrd on a report of what had been said by N.•b!e Lord in his place in that Home: this in itself was • salleieut ground why the Petition ►howl." not be received. Hut if leis recollection served him, he was certain be had not, on a former ercanim, said any thing as to the good or hid con• duct of the Westminster meetings: all that lie had said was, that the mee•ings which took place for- Minty in Westimineter were quite different from 'lone that were lately held, for then they were held 111 Witflltiffillef Hall, and not in the open air. Earl GROSVENOR consented to withdraw his mo tion for the adjournment of the debate. The Ea►l of BLESINTON said that, on Lot right, lie had moved • clause to exempt Ireland teem the operation of the 11111, bat it was nega tived. Ile had, however, the consolation of know. log that he had done kis duty. It was a measure that was not adequate fur that country, when he embittered all the circumstances of her sufferings, cso•rd by that Act, which he looked on with hor ror (the Unit's.). which deprived her of her aristo• rely and gantry to fill the coffers of this country. Vet the people remained quiet ; they were trod by the drenagogues of this country, and they repulsed them. ■ud so there was no danger to be apprehended turn meeting+ in Ireland. At the awe of the Winn it was held out by the Minister of the day to the Protestants of Ireland, that the question of I.:101 , 1m Emancipation should never be brought forna►d again in Parliament, Hod it was held out to the Catholics that Emancipation should be granted to them, and neither promises were fulfilled ; OM] to fill op the measure of her misery. she was to conic tinder the operation of the present Bill. Ile should therefore give notice, that he would, after the re. • esn, move for • Committee of the whole House to is quire into the state of Ireland. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he Lad on • for mer night stated his remove' shy the operation of the Bill they'd extend to lr?land, and he would not take up their Lordshtps' time by repeating •tor, He could not, however, pars in tile' ce the attack of the Noble Earl OH the Act of Union, after ►o many years had passed since that important Act took place, and the number of 3 ears that the Noble Esti had sat io that House without ever sa3ing a word on the subject. He denied the charge alio vrther that there web ever a promise hild out by the Minister, then at the head oh the Administration, to either the Protestant', or the Catholics of Ire land. Motive to Catholic Emancipation ; the speech oldies RI& Him. Gentlensm, ou proposing the Act of Uttion, was on record, and there was no such pstsagr in it. As to the coffers of this consi st,. being filled by Ireland siesta the Union, lie would call to the Nobk Earl's fecollection, that thiscotbstry hail time that period taken on herself Ilse debt of Ireland, and daring the war she h■d never bell elated by the property tee. The Earl of Buismos explained. The Bill was then 'tabbed. The Irish Election Regulation Bill went through s Committee, and the clauses agreed to without any a mend meat. The blouse resumed, and the Report was ordered to be brought up to•murrow. Their Lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, limo Alf, Dualism 21. row fur on Account of the Amount of tl.r //corvine of Great Britain, from ther.th Jemmy uIl the frili °thaw, IVI9. lint for various other papers connected with the subject of finance. F.N Tit DE. Mr.lll4urntx slot gave stotieo, that i mm mlillety rater the feces' hr thouhl mote for leave to brinc in ft 13111 to in new the b,,,,. craotcd on the iminniaiiiin of Irish !men, the present Art bring limited to tAllile ill Marcia, In2o. NORWICH GAS LIGHT. The Norwich' Ges Liebt Bill glee read a accoad time, sad ordered to be cuemasitted. FINANCE. Mr. alaseate pee metier, that be should more to-emor. • . CONVEYANCING. Mr. 1.3 - 17111LTON save butte', that 1,4! 51.001.1 move to. rnortow for Wive to toting in a Hill to prevent nn usl lieu persons acting FI9I Conveyaneert. He did not mean to press it through the 11.,tpte at present ; his object was to bring it in and have it printed, so that it might be circulated dating She Ft CClall. NATIONAL. DFRT. Mr. LI*IIIIINGTON presroi,ll an Arronnt of present total Amount of the funded and stittntut. it Debt of Great Britain.—Laid on the table, a n d order,d I n be prior& COURT OF EXCHEQUER. 11to Comic LLLLL of the FACTIVAIUIR rose, pursuant to his notice of yesterday, to more for leave to bring in a Bill for accusing the money belonging to the suiting in the Costal of Exclnquire. He oh d that the subject to whirh ilk notice referred, was allosid by all persons who had turned their attention to the andject, I.i be sine of very great importance. It had been brought under the consideration of the House before, but impedimenta had then been raised spins! any permanent provision. These had now been got over, and the Bill he proposed to introduce bad b.:s it framed after a cronmunicatinn with the LAW Anthoriii- , .. He only a-Ittil fur leave, in order that the Bill might he renal a first nod aerosol time, after which it might stand over till after the west.. The Right Hon. Gentleman then moved t o r, and obtained karre to bring in a Ball for the h-tter securing the n LLLLL ey and r ffitts of suitors paid into the Court of Ex- chequer, anal for the appoii.ting an Accountant-General and two Masters, in transact business in the same manlier us in the Court of Chancery, and for other purposes. 'lle 11111 was then brought in, and read a first time. Ou the questimi being put for the second n Mr. Cat.ettarr said, he wished to be informed how the Accenutaid-Georral was to be paid—he bora it was out, as in the Court of Chancery, by brokerage, which hr conch &rill a very toltjettionahte mode of remuneration' the ser. ♦ices of the Officers of soy Court. It' a salary was requisite fur him let it be assigned him, but let hint nut be paid iu the manner lie had dean ibed. _ . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that the Accountant 6 I and the Neste,' %mild be paid partly I.y a sala►y, and partly by means of new fees. The sala►y was towns, from the interest of *hat was called the dead. mosey is the Court of Exchequer, as well in that of Chan. eery. He then made some obArvations in vindication of the object of the Bill. Mr. CALCRATT said, he did not object to the general M. vulpine's* prorated—all he wished was, that the Accounts ant-6mml should nut derive the emoluments of lirs situ& lion in the same nay as the corrtspouding Officer iu the Court of Chancery—namely, by dividing the brukerage with the broker of the Court. _ . Sir GRAHAM expressed his perfi et tili4rarlinit with the (ikes of t►e 11111.—It was then ordered to be nod a second tinsis lo•warrew. SAVING BANKS, &c. Mr. 11.1TILBStattall raid, that see:iisg a light Nan. Grn. Homan, the Chancel:lir of the Exchequer, iu his place, he was desirous to put a question to him, which, however ab rued and extrseagant it might appear to the Mouse, was one whose .newer was of very high importance to the parties for a hose information and vAtiticariiun he propoutolsd it: he meant the lalsosii lug and snauufacturiug t tassss of .Mancbes• ter. A report bad been of late propagated, and obtaiued considerable eireulation among these classes, that it was obit intention of Govcstiturnt to seize on the funds and effect* of friendly societies and savii.g bulks, for the purpose of paying the mational eltbt.—(Laaiyhisr.)—There people not being very risoversant in such a ff.sies, the s isinssue, how. ever ridiculous it might appear, had ecqiCreel extensive <watt, and the csmsequence was, that multitudes of intlivb deals withdrew Cur- stock, and that in various insiuters, These iustitutions, productive of so much bs outfit to the tower orders, bad their entire effects brukt n op nod dividads Ile was &sate fium what soneeirthe delusion lad spruce, and could have denied it himself, but be wed.d lo have a formal denial of it by that Member of the Administration, Who, front kis sitostion, was best coralified In afford infer. 'nation tis the subject—be should therefore be obliged ios the Chancellor of the Eitehertur In bather his Ma. jeaty's Ministers had any intention its piy the stational dtbt out of the feuds of fsicudly wen tits uud saving banks. The CHAWCIMILOR of the rxenegurit said, that such was the manifest folly and absterelity of the report alluded to, that he was totally unpteried to hear such a question put in the Mouse , Is anso ce, i.e saou._ only dcrlarr , Th at the whole story was wit. ely groundless and false, mid desti tute of any sort of foundation or au thor.ty. Mr. BROUGHAM observed. that however toolish the EWEN► had been. the Right nun. Gentleman was not to suppose that his declaration would eirert the total 1.111111110• I of it. This was out the only time when soda illllll/1119 113 d beets circulated, for the Committee rf Education lead been stbjeeted to similar charges last year restive *mg their oh. jecla. It bad been imputed to Mini that they aimed at causing a total change in the application of the foods, and to turn the Usiveraities into dimity reboots, mid eutsiiii.. ,lauding all that bid appeared to overturn such surmises, them extraordinary rumours had been revised of Isle. The CHANCELLOR of the Excitespultlt said, that he hoped, notwithstanding, that what be bad acid wooed completely diseountenatice the reports its question. The funds of these institutious bul a:ways been particularly secure; no person had cser experienced the least difficulty in recovering leis mom y from them. Mr. CAT.CU %ET said, it might add further confirmation and consolation to these Gentleincu in Manchester, to be told, that, as far as he could discover, nothing at all, from hatever souse,, was to be applied this year towards the xtuuctiou of the national debt.—(d laugh.) '11:e Cilascet.cott of tt.t Excureusn said, he was sure it would gist. pleasure to the .111. Gentleman to learn, that so far as Ise yet saw, he be heard these would be nu very ma. feria! deviation from the plaits he had stated Its the last Sea "dun of Parliaou at. _ . Mr. CALcuArr was extremely OA to find that the Right Hon. GCU111.131311 was likely to realise the whole of the ex pected revenue. Sir W. DR CRISPIGNY said, that an Mon. Member had, on a former evening, compared the country to a large firsu he (Sir W. dr Crespieny) lamented that many of the part ners were pox witlidianing their funds from the concern. To preirree the Fusin rity of the country be was willing to make theritiers himself. ORAINGEISM (LIVERPOOL) Mr. CANNING said, he Rise merely to remind an Ikon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Pennell) ed tbc strictures which he had pi otiounced ou a former evening on a clergyman at Liverpool, about lie Lad accused of preaching a setmuu fur an Orange. Society, calculate-el to inflame religious animosi ties rather than to promote ony other end. Since that time, lie (Mr. Canning) had received a letter from the Gentleman in 'oration, denying all the circumstances respecting the dressing up the figures of a Pope and a Cardinal, and the sulscquent tilling of and consignment of their tubes to the flumes within the church; and assuring him that hr had eunsrutiJ to preach the set ~,,, n as a matter of ordinary et s defy, aud as he would bare dune on application fur any other club to society. Ile (Mr. Canning) thought that the teat used on the occasion would sheer that it was not the loicolion of the preacher to hillsnie the passions or preju dices of his auditors fly this shall all turn know that you ate my disciples, if you love one another."—Mear.)— died he understood that every word of the discourse was in unison with it. Ile bad made inquiries respecting the young man, sud had heels informed that he was a person of exem plary character and conduct, and universally respected in his at trill/eradiated. Mr. Bean err confessed that *hen Imbed seen the report of his speech the neat day, • be observed,- that be had been mode to say many shim Omit be had opt sank mid that in t hymens place harsher extrication' resmocyag 111,0 clergymen had' born put into his mouth than he Ised•used. He bad nereV said tbat the tubes bad been cuusigeed to the (lama' la .. r . ak. . 4 '4. tit cbUrch. But he till said, and he said Mill, that he con sidered ikermon preached ht 'mach cirenmstauces as sedition towards mate, and blavhcmy towards God. After a varteey df 0,11 . 1 ' oblirlvalllolas Mr. Bennett said he had not mentioned the name, breaisoe be wished to make the blow as light as possible. Mr. CANNtIIG then read an e7ol3et from the letter. Ile staled, among tither Maltrry, that the as.erlitosit respecting the figures of the Pope and Cardinal had been vidis,rptently disproved on 'oath, slid denied the stripping of Item, and consignment of the robes to the dim'.. BANK BALANCES. Mr. Giticierct.t. moved for variona prees..tievrtnt the balances of public rash from the different public other. in the hands of the Bank of England, on the 1.1 and 15th days respectively of each month, from the Ist of January to the lblli of December, 151:), iitclnsire; also a return of •11 Ex chequer bills deposited in the Bank during the same period. BAKING TRADE. ..... _ Mr. C. C . moved for leave In bring in a Bill to re gulate the halting trade iu the vicinii y of the niriropolia. The 8.11 which be had brought in before had doom much mood, but not all that hail been intomied. As it ex oirrol oil 1he23.1 Jmnary his object was to renew it 1.11 the 21.11Joine, before which time an lion. Friend, hence qualified tli3n him self, had promised to frame another nseasure.—The motion was agreed to, and leave given . CRINIINA I, LAWS. Sir J. Maentsvoati gave sootier, that on die 15111 February he should move for the re.appo . i ... meld of the Committee on the Criminal l.aw. Hear.) PA 11 1.1 ASI ENTA BY DISQC . 11 FICATIONS. . ‘.•• ..... .......... Mr. itiallraTT rave potter, that, after the reveal., be should move for leave to liriosig in • Rill to prevent per.on..lmpos la fird by bottling certain 1.1 tett front 'iliumin l'Arlia intent. MANCHESTER MAGISTRATES. Mr. CALCRAT desired again to knot► from the Noble Lord, it hillier he and his Colleagues had any ohjection lu iiroiliite the answer of laird Sidmnnth to the 111 aucheittre Magistrati . s, and also In the 11.41111 Advocate? Lord CALSTLERLAG II thought it his duly to object to the production, as no ground for ii had heel' laid. Mr. CALeIIAfT was then about to sithruit a 'notion for the production of the pspvis, hut afterwards postponed it till early after the recess. SCOTTISH BURGHS. Lord A. Fl,vmtri tie had n Peti tion to present from a Synths,' Presbytery, which wastage assembly of the clergy of different parishes (in slue itestatice fourteen), convened in convocation, ou behalf of their poorer fellow.countrymeii. The Petition stated, first of all, that by the law and pretence of their church-government, the clergy weer bound to inform themselves of the condition and eircomstaoicea of their pwishimirrs—That after ierrrr•estiug an Address to the Throne, expressive of their driermesiorion to rapport it and the con stitution, they thought it their duty I. lily to relorerent to Parlinnvent the state of degradation. misery, and wretchedness to whim le a large pare of the country ass rednerd. It proceeded to state. that the opulent had done all that they could to alleviate the distresses of the labouring rlawesi—but that their wants were too great and general to be thee supplied—.that it was now impossible in many Oases to rear a family—that /ewers' families were bow disabled from attending (as try formerly did, with great punctuality) divine service at the churches lor want of ilecriet cheleing—and that the education of their clalthrti was lwelmeing to be neglected Crum the same cause. The Petitioners the* exlue►seel th e i r opicion, that a great twat 'of the disaffection existing in the island had origi. Paled in distress—and piayed the House to grant whatever relief it might think expedient. lie (Lewd A. Illansilten) was of epics 00000 , ilia there was a great deal of waste lends si Scotland, and that the proprietors were willine to make a sacrifice of their OWO interests, provided slue Government would, by reent;stitig the occupier' from the payment of tsars and tithe*. or in some other ow, give a fa cility fur their cultivation, by the employment of ilre emir. tie then moved that the Petition be brought' up. After a few remarks from Mr. KSNWEDtt • and Sir 'W. de Cresaigely— Lord CASTLERSAGII argued that the evil corn plained of was not rectsliar to Scoilassol, but existed to as great a degree in other parts of the United Kingdom. The question was, had the peoprortors done all that tlw law allowed them to do l They were certainly enabled by the law of Scotland to essess•theinseletv. Its the year 1817 a en Ibms and a half had been placed by Parliament in the hands of Commissioners. to be leut out on securities fur dirtying on public works ; be had the saliefactuni to soy, that not lees than half a million of it was yet trosapplird. and to obtain a loan f r om it it was only iteceiwary (or the proprietors to assign any seasonable security fur the payment its four or five years. Ile believed it wits the intention of his Right lion. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exche quer) to make • motion to- row to take away any legal difficulties which might occur to the effecting of this during the vacation. Mr. DOUGLAS alluded to the peculiar state of Scotland. and hoped that souse mode would lee adopted to give teller to the suffering poor of that country. lie hoped. however, that mane arrange ment could be made to give this relief to tied poor of Scotland, Without exposing that country to the visitation of poor laws, Mr. J. I'. GRANT said, that the state of distress in which the poor of Scotland were placed required serious attention. If the glory of the t &minty were greet, mid had occasioned so much real be ne-fit to the community, it was time that thus ahn slid not enjoy this community of benefit ►hould. at least, have the advantage of deriving aid bean More fortunate parts of the cominemity. There were two observations suggested by the state of the case. The first was, that the landed intete,t had not the means or soetqing this evil : mid SO far from its being the fact, that they were not anxious to give relief, lee cou!el state, that. one i n disid ua l in the county from which the Petition came coma buted en/. per week. Ile dal not think a geortai assessment a oulet meet the evil, unit lie certainly complained that Guyer o tat land not earlier th , reeled their attention to the state of Scotland, and considered the causes of the (Imitate►, as well as the consequreices of then', bud led to tumult and disorder. Lard CASTLEREAGH thought it a little too herd to expect that Engll.ll gentlemen should, bun to the charge of their o*u IltlOf ISMS, take up. ou themselves the suppuit of the poor bib Scutlaud, where the gentry were not exposed to the ►u sue ea. rtu e. ?LLICE said, that though the advances were to be miade uts local security, 3rt still some inquiry ought lobate place into the causes which led to the present distress, lie begged to take this opportu nity of stating, that since the Search fur Arar.s Rill bad passed, a general search lied taken place in Paisley, and uo arms had been found withiu the •r .' _ • \ 'IA-. \ 4 N " ./ I X . ....A is.•. s , . range PC notWitliatantling dl alai tad been said of the dirturbed district. , . Mr. V. BLARE wished lltat the Ma g istr ates or Scotland should be einpowrreil to repay any ad- It'&• * low made for the relief of the poor, nut out of existing, but of future tolls or apartments. Mr. Wit.nanwoncs said, they were alt agreed, lie milled, that some relief sl Id br given to the pour or Sent hind. The nut I y question was, how it I c ould be implied. The !louse ought to look at t facts from the evidence of practical persons, rod i then apply general principles to tbotie facts. .. Mr. CALCRAFT said, that he had the utmost sympathy for Ilse per.on• who were des s crilied in this Petition; but still he thosight it necessary that some distinction should he mode between the situation of the two commies. In England a large portion of the rents of estates were given to the relief of the poor. In Scotland there was no such provision. Why, tlien, call fur this general grant, when there was no reciprocity of situation between the two catintrics Scotland had now the Opportunity of availiag herself of the pecuniary aid afforded by Government, upon giving adequate local security. lie thought the offer fair and liberal, and such as the gentry of Scotland would avail themselves of. With respect to the general principle of the Poor I.,.virs„ he was one of those who would defend it, stud who ilioni 4 lit that it was alone to the mis. management of the principle that complaints of elbows were directed. Mr. WILBERFORCE explained. Sir .1. 111ACKINTOSII complained, that the cue of the Petitioners was not stated fairly at either side. The ►.til question was, whether those who lid been deprived of subsistence by a n►tetn which had given tifilueoce to Inhere, should, in their turn, receive aid from the inure fortunate part of the community. He protested soloist the doctrine that in the event of this application being attended to, Scotland would he placed in a different situation loon England. With respect to a repeal of the Poor Laws, now that they had grown into the existing state of society. he thought the nom must be mail indeed who would venture to propose any such► alteration. But the great evil of the Poor Laws lay in their misapplication. Their original principle was safe, but nothing was more impolitic than she system of mixing them up with the wages of labour. lie would ask, whether. under the ex perience of all the practical evils of the existing system of Poor Laws in England, Scotland was to be denied relief until she entailed upon herself the same visitation ? lie loner' no such doctrine would he propounded in that House. Lord BINNING thought the Poor Laws worked precut:silly • great evil, and one which lie could never think of extending to Scotland. Mr. PuiLurs thought the state of Scotland was peculiar. Why, he would ask, was the rate of wages lower in LanarkslOre than in Lancashire ? That very circumstance established the necessity of au inquiry into the situation of the poor. Mr. FORBES thought that a voluntary contribu tion would be very beneficial to relieve the local distresses of the poor. Lord A. Muni oN denied, as a general propo sitions, that in eftvet share were no poor's rates in Scotland ; on the contrary, he asserted that larger contributionv were bestassetl on the poor in the par ticular district o f Scotland, than if the gentry were exposed to the actual visitation of Poor Laws, as impoeed in this country. The Noble Lord then alluded to the extra population which poured into many parts of &Wood, particularly from Ireland. In Glasgow there were often several thousands of strangers—amid lie thought it but just and fair that the country would, under the pressing exigencies of the cur, gruot relief to a district burdened in suclra manlier. In the last Session of Parliament, the Kochi lion. Gentleman opposite (the Chancel lor of the Exchequer) had brought in a Bill for building new churches, and had lamented at the time that iu s•auy parts or the empire persons were prevented, by tire want of decent clothing, from at tt nding places of worship. How were they to im prove their situation if no means of bettering their conditions were attended to ? Mr. &emma' thought that some relief ought, if posoibir, to be titionitd ; but he was of opinion it ought to be given by those who, at other times, derived the bent tit of the labour of the working classes. The Petition was laid on the table, and ordered to he printed. Lord A. HAMILTON preveoted • similar Petition from the perish of fiutliven—which was also laid o► the table, and ordered to be printed. SCOTCH BURGHS. Lord A. HAMILTON then moved for the re-ap. pointinent of the Committee of bait Session, to irr. quire into the state of Scotch Burghs. This Corn mittee was actually oreceorary, to develope and cur. rest the %Abuses which had crept into the state of popular representation in Scotland. It was neces sary to correct the inveterate cud flagitious abuses which fro notosiouvly prevailed, sod adopt a system huit.r calculated to sustain the reputation and he. riour of the country. The uncontrolled self.elec film cf Corporationa was in itself a great evil. He denied that parliamentary reform was the object he had in view, iii propuaing the re.appointaient of the Cuminttrte. His object was the correction of alm.e., and though what was termed reform may be the coliateral result, yet it could not be consi dered the immediate. The Noble Lord then al luded to the bade of Edinburgh, Aberdeen, and lovernesa, and said, that the legality of the return of the Alember fur Edinburgh had been doubted. lie concluded by moving for the appointment of a Committee, to take into consideration the Pettioas resptcririg t!:e :tate of the Burghs iu Scotland. Alr. J. P. GRANT seconded the motion. Mr. WM. DUNDAS said, that when the Noble Lord prosoottoeed an opinion upon the legality of Ina (Ir. Duritlaa'r) return as Member fur Edin. burgh, it looked or if the Noble Lord had grown wanton, in consequence of the success of his motion last year.—(A lungh.)—•The only irregularity which had occurred io his election was, the abscise. of one Magistrate, who was au elector. Bat there was stashing else in any way to vitiate the validity of the drown. He then denied that vane of the scotch loughs were ill the state of pecuniary bank. e uptcy Alluded. to. Lord CASTLEREAGU NM no objection to the at. appointment of the Conmittee. He woojd not . V t a *)1 Vk therefore enter into a discussion of the grinr.d .ineption. • . Mr. 3. P. GRANT said he refrained for the same reason from touching upon the general topic. Mr. FORMS, denied that Aberdeen was in the state dercrib-d. It at present paid au interest ct 4 prr cent. upon its debt, and was considered as a good security for the principal. The inhabitant. would indeed be perfectly disappointed if the debt were paid off. The Hon. Alensber reed an extract from the Report of the Board of Directors of tin. Manufactures of Scotland in support of his oi.inita. After a few words from Lord A. Matti:fox. the motion was agreed to, and the Committee re-ap pointed. CHELSEA PENSIONERS. Lord Yrici;s 7 rose to move, pursuant to ks 11Thee, for a Return of Men liable to be struck tit' the Chelsea Pension List, by the Proclamation u i the 28th of October. 1819, distinguishing those who had enlisted far seven years, under the 46th of the King. and who, when the time of their ser vice expired, became entitled under that Act to a pension, in consideration of their wounds. The Noble Lord said that his object in moving for those papers was, to move fsa leave to bring in a Bill to extend the provisions of the Act of the 46th of the King to the Chelsea pensioners, who having being retitled to pen.ion., weir, under tl.e proclamation, to he deprived of them. The pro. demotion said, that if these persons did not com ply with its direction, they would be deprived of their pensions ; but he could not see by what right persons who had served the full period of time for which they enlisted, should be der rived of their pensions. If a soldier, who entered the service for ss limited time, should leave the service at its ex piration, could lie be treated as a deserter ? cer tainly not; and the case was precisely the same with the soldier who claiined his pension under the Act of the 46th of the King. He entered for a particular period, ender the faith that when ti n time expired he might leave the service, and if lie received a wound, that lie would be entitled to a pension. The Act was plant, and the regulations founded on it could net admit of a different con structinn. The Noble Lord said, that not only the Act, but the speeches made on all sides of the House when the Bill was pandiug hi-fore their. gave it that construe' ion. The Noble Lord (Cav tlereagli) and the Ittglit lion. Gentleman the Pre sident of the Board of Control, gave the Bill the lime construction; they opposed the Bill, on the ground that it would deprive the Crown of the power to take away petitions at pleasure, and tendril to make soldiers independent of the Crown. Mr. Windham at the time argued strongly that the faith of Parliament was the foundation of the service, and when once pledged that it ought to be kept inviolate. lis the Act there was not a word to give power to the Crown to withdraw the pensions iit case of the pensioner nut attending on fresh service, excepting those peesioners who had enlisted for life, pr fur a term of years which had not expired. The Noble Lord said, it was not necessary for him to enlarge on the sacred duty of keeping inviolate the public frith with soldiers ; it was a profession with which the point of honour should be most especially observed, and with respect to which a departure from the principle of good faith might • he attended with the most fatal coLveilitenees.-- The wounded soldier had a high claim on the tendering , " and gratitude of his country. Ile hoped the Noble Lord would not °wore the motion— or if lie did so, that he was right in doing so under • the law and the miliary regulations, as aril as by the debates which took place when the l ry was passed. Lord PALMERSTON said, he had no hesitation to sa: . , that the late orders which had been issued were borne oust by the military regulations. The Bill of Mr. Windham gave certain peidiuns—sulisct, however, to the subsequent regulations of the Crown. The soldier, subject to those regulations, had a legal right to his pension, but not an inde feasible right. The third section was the one on which the question turned; that section stated, that every soldier should be entitled to his discharge at the expiration of his seivice, subject to the regula tions of his Majesty, leaving the King the power to fix the time, and the nature of the wounds which would entitle au individual to a peandor. 13-fure the Act no MUD could receive his pension, what ever might be his claims, unless he produced :he recommendation of his commanding, officer. The ol:jvet of Mr. NVindhani's Act was to do away Ili , : necessity of that recommendation, and to make the claim of the soldier sufficient, independent of the recommendation of his commatiding officer. It remained to the Crown to decide what period of service might entitle the soldier to his pension, what rate of pension he should receive, and on what terms the pension should be held. The authority of Mr. ‘Viudhain went to prove that the Bill did not intend to give to the soldier an indefeasible right to his pension. The regulations which were drawn up in the October following, by Gen. Fitzpatrick. did not put it in that point of view. Ilere the Noble Lord entered at some length into the military re gulations, from which be argued, that the pen sioner was bound to serve the full three periods, amounting to twenty-one years; and that it was clear, if be refused to serve when called on, he for feited his pension. Such, lie said, was the clear meaning of the military regulations. It was, he said. preposterous to suppose, that able men in the prime of life. recrising pensions, should not be ha hie to serve their country when culled ou ; and as for those who received pensions on the ground of services, they had no claim on the gratitude of the country ; with respect to them it was a case of bar gain and sale. There were 75,000 out- pensioneis, many of whom were not tit for service, but many of them were; and it was too monstr u us to he maintained, that they who were supported by the resources of the cottony should not be liable to f w t hen t,ore t hem. r r wd ai u s A e deLnliTbo by the service. He said that similar Proclamations weie th made in 1809 and 1813, and no notice were taken o i s ie l t e ua tdee Lo itii r : d e: ipl b au t tb c l a ttic us som e li a di t iide p .r r , e h st a i L t gotwhhaalepstos:Niaroig:7 that the question was lint ing received wounds is the service, was not liable to be called on after the expiration of the period fur belibl rd ar s .t o c f i b t t w . as fair to give the soldier the which he enlisted ; b u t if r d ou b t arose on t h e words Logo contended, that no per . of m t ! e o n ts t d et u blotter was entitled to his pension without being pe Iw m Tr .stql Frl r ,irpru;u - ------ " teVt'll the I inch Ile r bet n Le lii 3 ear 4. Til their Vie r of ml 1,11(1 vkatla a eurrei I.•u Rlt-I , ffu::: il%e Inc A Statu 4111 r. port it w Inenti All ticien }lout , 111 only I he i) late tl like biira Love wi.icl its tl the ter beta' owl pies' 11. s 61 I►cli Ili al 11)ul 1 g I Ir3llc full einoli i r iqab en; • anti I ' was t • log r to till he sa servic :heir Mu kirmel "•,VP '; i 7; ye ilio9e w I.n, Act, I 1,0. e It • Sef ( Mr bciuK Amei *liou! wilat Y;! IC r pew. i..qu cum luau 'moo C11:1 wut. Forr '04 , 1 fcr a,!v: ottise, 'wilt M iii • nllll Ct I lake litq fie cut, to I