The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-03-16 00:00:00

OP I.I .NWRIP I I F]! I ri l~ PARLIAMENTARY INTELLIGENCE. MOUSE OF OF LORDS, TUESDAY, Menem 15. 1 1 CATHOLIC Ci.Alel.9. At three o'clock, while the Lord Chancellor was hearing appeal anuses, aauses, the Duke of Gloucesuer presented et petition from the Cali. T or b ay o f Cambridge against the I mitotic Claims. His Roy 11 Highness presented the petition as Chancellor of the University. —Read and laid on the table. , In the absence of the Earl of Shaftesbury, Lord KENYON presented a similar petition from the betel& and inhehitants of the • town of Wenlock, in Salop.—Read and laid on the table. The Bishop of PETERBOROUGH presented a petitinte f r om the Dean and Chapter of the Diocese of Peterborough, praying that their Lordships 'mild not grant any further coneesiti 'as to the Catholics. The Noble and Reverend Lord stated that. the peti qoners disavowed all feelings of an unchristian nature towards the Roman Catholics, but that they believed their %entire ants towards tee Established Church were unchanged, and that sehile such was the case, it would be neither justice nor policy to 'pant them any further concession. The petition was discreetly and respectfully woalea —Read and laid on the table. The elarquis of LA NSDOWN presentee a petition frbm the merchant , . hankers, and citizens of the clue of D„iein„ praying that their Lordships would consider, and iv sane sonic of the re striction. on trade in Ireland, and parr ialarly the Coal Duties, which the petitioners stared were neem os , ' in the use of ma chinery, sod particularly of the steam eeline, an object most ins- Fertant to the prosperity of Ireland.—R t ad and laid on the table. SMALL nxiir s . Lori CA LTIIORPE presented I petition from the merchants blotters and tradesmen of the town of, gi ngmereepen .hg e le pray i ng the House for some alteration in th A laws for the recovery of smell debts.—Laid on the table. SPRINGjf JUN'S BILL. Lord ELLENBOROVGII eeeenre e a pet i t i on h orn en indi vidual of the name of Atha I i I, a market-gardener of Chelsea. against the Bill fur prevent! tag the use of spring guns.—Laid on the table. 1 k Lord SUFFIELD 5:4, trading of the Order ee se e D a y, that preparatory to his moving the he meant to propose to their i t Lordship, a Bill to nixt.e the steeling of ill vegetable production. , larceny. A Noble Deice (Wellington), with more zeal thad dis t eretitni, had accused him of not having dare enough to remove the use of spriegrans, and had suttee that the Bill ought to be extended to all gardens as well as to game preserves. There wit. a material difference, however, in these two cases ; and the difference was, that the prnservation of gime was a mere matter of option, but that of vegetables of necessity, as they comoi tuted the whole propertre of many persons who had no other means of procuring a teeing. ft was matter of astonishment to him (Lord euff)eld) tit at that Noble Puke had taken the part be did on the debate /es a former night, because rumour had Ita ll aTt e't that the Nakk , Duke came down to the House for the enrpoid of opposing 0 he Bill. The habits of that Noble Duke had accustomed hiin to scenes of horror, more perhaps than any other Noble Lord, and he (Lord Suffield) was at a loss to se aura for the rewire _ why the Noble Duke had taken the part he hail taken. W eether the Noble Duke were sincere or in. omate was a me •ter of doubt. If he were sincere, he had used a very stet .nge arg unmet in support of the Bill for Fraleattae spring. guns. fie had asserted that instances of acci dents, by mean,, of those tristreinents, were rare, and he would hardly hive init.,/ Need sus h an obi ervatinn if he had been sincere in the course he f ad taken. But lie (Lord Sitaield) would suppose the Noble Dull to be insi were. No objection had been made to the Bill ; r•ot a word had been raised against it, until he proposed the introductiot . of a claw e to which many Noble Lords had de chledly obeetee e...-• clans i to ex:end the Bill to all gardens., well as to all plait& .tions. TO .s appeared to be a ease ele Amerre of the Noble Duke s, and was a. proof against his sincerity. If it were an artifice, it we .an artifice of the Cabinet rather than of the held, sod one will et the Noble Duke must have learned since he left the victorious a ray which It : led on the Continent. But he could not attributes teh an artifice: to the Noble Duke. He (Lord Suffield) treant to follow tip tee Bill he had now proposed by another, to rahthit a .he use of spiing.gurs in all walled gardens. As doubts had arts nin the minds of several Noble Lords, it would be his Ceti WI .en he came to diseuse this subject to state some anecdotes in proo' ;of their injurious effects. During the last week he had eetaitO 1 numerous volumes of communications on this subject, wane 1 , f which expressed considerable suspicion that the Noble Duke should be ignorant of the number of accidents that bad occue a s. Tea t Doke of WELLINGTON said, he did not rise to repel any s f the Noble Lord's (Suffield) insinuations; that Noble Lord boa been perfectly unparliamentary in his observations, in com p,' a ng his (Lord Wellington's) conduct in that House with his 'eat duct on (Moer occasions, with which it had no connection. His 1 'Ora Moo on the Bill now before the House wan, that it contained we 7 unfair insinuating against those country gentlemen who w/ abed to preserve their game, and who wished to preserve it with al •t the Rid of game.kospers, by a mode which would be more con e/ stem with their foments, than perhaps it might be with the for t ine of the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord had said that a great 4 tap of in schief had been done by those instruments; but he had I of stated what this extensive mischief was. He ( Lord 1 Veiling. I et) would nut deny that he came down to the House for the pur_ nee ea °opening the Bill; but when he heard the subject argued, i e had determined not to do so. The Noble Lord had done i . him injnetice in saying that lie had not expressed his sentiments ; the Noble Lord might recollect, that lie (Lend Wellington) had i' • mantra out to him the very plan he had pursued in proposing this 4..ause ; and the Noble Lord, he believed, had stated his approba. Coq of it. He (Lord Wellington) had proposed this clause, be. cease without it lie thought an insinuation could be thrown out atesinst the country gentlemen, whom he wished to protect. Lord SUFFIELD was desirous to assure the Noble Duke that he did not mean any thing disrespectful towards him. In the dis cussion of the measure it had been necessary to use arguments, as rl he thnueht that the Noble Duke was taking a by.way of oppos ing the Bill, which, in consistency with that Noble Duke's tbs.. Meter, should have been done in a more open manner. But with respect to the argument of the Noble Puke relative to country gentlemen, he could say that he believed the main principle of the Bill was sufficient to carry it through the House—that no one had a right to shoot any man for committing a trespass. He should have no objection that country gentlemen should enjoy what they could legally protect ; but be contended that they had no right to i enjoy whet they could not. He shout I bring in his other Bill In concurrence ivith the suggestion of the Noble Puke. sad the wishes of other Noble Lords. He would now more the first reading of the Bill to make the stealing of vegeable productions larceny. The Earl of 31ALMESIBITY said he had never used, and never should use, spring-guns in his grounds. Ile thought that the Bill would meet the views of all, if the use of spring-guns were declared illegal between stir-rise and sun -set, and if used on the b'gh road or near a dwelling-hoes:. He was of opinion that there were cases in which spring-gun , might be permitted. If the Bill in its present form were allowed to pass, it would appear on the etatete book as ievidiou. against country geetleinen. There was one specie; of property in the country which was very liible to theft, and which might perhaps be defended by spring.guns—it was young trees. He would certainly support the Bill, provided it e'd /Kt indirectly allude to country e eentlemen. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that he should have no objee tien to the first reading of the Noble Lonl's Bill ; but as the Noble .... ~, lord memo to bring in a Bill respecting the setting of spring-guns it. gardens, he would ask the Nettle Lord why he would not at (tate make his Bill general ? Teere was as much horror in shooting is man fin stealing a pear or a parsnip as for killing a pheasant or hare. It would be ninth better if what the Noble Lord (Suffield) prouosed respecting gardens wereineorporated with the original Bill. Earl OBObVENOIt differed at opinion from the Noble Emil (Liverpool) as to the best mode of proceeding. The House woe sigreed on the main principle of the Bill—that the ure of spring. . glum ought to bo discontinued. The only questioo then for their .. . c Weiroi l Wellington). k t. lernieitips to consider was, whether they weela pass the Bill in its .•mbered. or with th was h e tr anen r a d le i nt e e r r o tr p . ;zl r. b p e in t t h o e n islo h b a l e l Duke thus arquia of SALISBURY said he was a friend to the . • . . .. ure, but he cook'. not see soy objection to making it i s e . Bill was then/tad a first time. •", . ird SUFFIELD said that he hoped the proposed amendment of I "obit Duke might not be allowed to interfere with his Bil:, but le i it might make a separate legislaeee measure. For that purpose 1 should new propose to their Lordships a Bill which was in per fJ „et accordance with the seutimente of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, as well as with those rat other Learned Loots. I The Bill be was, about to propose to their Lordships was that the usn 1 oe epring-gans or other offensive weapons, in all gardens, orchards, i referees, and cultivated grounds, should be declared unlawful. Be recollected many instances, aed he had teen furnished with niany others, of the accidents that had occurred in consequence of the used spring.guns. Some of them had occurred by day and. others by night. The Noble Lord then read from several public papers amounts of these accidents. o' The Doke of WELLINGTON said, that although he did not - (repose the Bill either at its sewed reading or in the Committee. he protested against this latter_peinciple being considered as hie Ile believed that if the Noble• Lord (Suffield) was to state all the accidents that had occurred for years past, and then to ascertain hew many gardens had been saved from robbery, it would be found that spring guns had preserved more lives than they had taken. ' Lord ELLENBOROUOII agreed in the opinion of the Noble Duke. He thought that if the House were stultified to legislate in this case, they should legislate to twevent accidents in any way. He hoped their Lordships would recollect that propeny to a very liege amveant was protected in the neighbourhood of London by those instruments. The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, lie was of opinion that the object of those three differ', t Bills might he expreaud In a very few words, and this clumsy mode of legislation be avoided, if their Lordships were coneiuced that punishment ought to be at. etched to certain mimes whit.) now go unpunished. The LORD CHANCELLOR said there could be no objection to the firm reattiea of the Bill. He thought there would be no difficulty in so conschelatieg the three Bills as to make one answer the purposes of all. It was his opinion that some protection should be telt:idea to those whose property was often and materially ex posed. It had been an for a long series of years: it was so by an Aet of Elintheth, and by an Act of the 6th of the late Kittle Par. hamtnt had made it highly penal testes! fruit front a garden. The punisement was a fine of Ole. for the first offence, of 51. for the second, and of transportation for the third ; and if the fruit were seolee in the uight-tlme, of transportation for the second offence I but et would he ton %Lee Lordships to consider in what way they ~' ! '~S I ~A [pi 1 s I. = NM would look on these laws, and on the sulikct altogether. He thought it would be better to amalgamate the B.lle. Lord HOLLAND thought the !louse had better proceed to the Committee en the first Bill, when the other Bills might perhaps be better introduced him, and consolidated with it. The Bill was then read a first time. Lord SUFFIELD said he should not in the least object its the introduction of such words into the former Bill ae 'Digit do away with the necessity for the two latter. If it were agreeable m their Lordships, it would be perfectly an to him. The Noble Lord then moved the reading of the order of the day. The Ilcuse thcn resolved itself into a Committee on the Spring Guns Bill. The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the introduction of a clause to prohibit the use of spring guns and str.el traps in all gardens, orchards, After a desultory esnyersation between several Noble Lords re lative to the introduction of this clause, strangers were ordered to withdraw.. and the House divided on Clentriendtueht of the Earl of Liverpool, when the numbers appeared-- Contents -2l I Non-Contents . b Majority - - 23 During our absence, we understood several verbal amendments were agreed to the Bill went through the Committee, and the Re port was ordered to be received tO-1110370W. The House then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, 51.tacu IS. METROPOLITAN WATER COMPANY. 31r. 31. A. TAYLOR presented a petition from the parish of St. Mary. Paddington. praying to be heard by Counsel against the Metropubtan Water AVorks Bill —Referred to the Committee. Sir E. HARVEY presented another (rani, as we understood, the River .Lee Lampany against the unit Bill.—Laid upon the table. LIVERPOOL AND LANCASTER RAILROAD. Lord STANLEY presented two petitions from Lancaster and its vicinity against the propased Rail-road.—Laid on the table. LIVERPOOL. AND 3IANCHESTER RAIL-ROAD. Sir A. CHICIIESTEIt presented a petition from Belfast, in favour of the Liverpool and Manchester Rail-road.—Laid on the table. ST. KATHERINE'S DOCKS. Mr. C. CALVERT presented a petit-on from several rereetable merchants of London against the St. Katherine's Docks Bill.—Re (Lined to the Committee. EQUITABLE LOAN BANK. Mr. S. WHITBREAD presented a prtiticn from the parish of St. George, Ilanover-square, agaiLs: tile Bill for incorporating the Equitable Loan Company. Mr. P. I$lOOllE presented a petition from the inhabitants of Whitechapel in favour of the same Bill.—Referred to the Com mittee. OIL GAS BILL. III?. P. MOORE presented a petition from the Imperial Gas and Coke Company, praying to be heard by Counsel against the Bill for ircorporating 'the Oil Gas Company.—Referred to the Committee. NEW COLLIER DOCKS. Mr. P. MOORE brought in a Bill for constructing Wet-docks and Basins in the parish of All Saints, Poplar, add the Isle of Dogs. SirJ. YORKE, while he declared it to be his opinion that this was one of the best Bills now in progress through the House, begged to know, whether his Honourable Friend had introduced any compulsory clause which would force the colliers to make use of these docks ? without something of that Lind he feared the river would be as much blocked up as ever. Mr. P. MOORE begged to assure the Worthy Admiral he was so well satisfied the colliers would Lind it to be their advantage to use these docks, that he had not introduced any compulsory clause whatever.—The Bill was then read a first rime. BARING'S DIVORCE BILL. The Solicitor for Mrs. Baring was examined with respect to his power of answering on her h2half„ and it was ordered that he be served with notice of the Bill being now in progress through that House. METROPOLITAN FISH COMPANY. Sir E. KKATCIIBULL presented peetitions for Ramsgate and Greenwich against the Metropolitan Fish Company. Alt. CA lA:RAFT said, he would take that opportunity to ob serve that he had been mistaken in the observations lie made on a former evening with regard to this Company. He found upon ex amination that they had not mid any thing upon the subject of the Dutch Fisheries, and he begged now to apologise fur the error ; the fact was, that there were three Fish Companies in contempla tion, and he had argued from the prospectus of one with reference to another. That could however make no difference in his opposi tion to a measure, which went to apply an enormous mass of capital to the prejmlice of a most industnous class of individuals without any good to the public. Fish was at present sold, he was instrurnd to state, at the rate of seven farthings • pound, exclusive of her rings, sprats, and salmon, and lie was very much at a loss to com prehend how a Company, which professed to buy tip the fish brought to the market by fishermen who now sold it themselves, could, after allowing them a fair profit, sell it cheaper titan at the price lie had stated. It Lord George Seymour and some other highly respectable gentlemen whose names were at the bead of this establishment chose to become fishmongers and sell fish themselves he had no objection ; but he would oppose, whenever it came before the House, this attempt to deprive a large and industrious class of their present means of subsistence. Sir J. YORKE likewise advocated the cause of the fishermen, pronouncing it • most honourable and most ancient employment as the Apostles themselves could testify. ( Laughter.) Sir E. KNATC H BULL, while he felt it to be his bounden duty to oppose this fill, regretted that from an informality in the peti tion, he was compelled to move that it be laid upon the table, in stead of being referred to the Committee, as i.e intended. Sir E. HARVEY said a few words against the proposed Company. /llr. CURTEIS defended it. .Mr It. BERNAL opposed it. Me. S. WILSON was convinced their object was to do good, and that such a Company was necessary to put an end to the pre sent nefarious practices in the fish trade. He had heard, and indeed be believed he should be able to prove, that it was the constant practice of the fishmongers to throw all the fish into the river which might be above the quantity necessary for the supply of the market, rather than allow it by glutting the market to reduce the standard price. (Hear, hear.) Such practicer', this Company would put an end to; and, therefore, he thought they were entitled to the support of the House and the country. The Ilonourable Member for Wareham had, he thought, in hit statement to the House of the seven farthings price of fish, made out a very strong case in support of the proposed Company. (Hear, hear.) If the fish monger purchased fish at that price, was it not necessary that some one should interpose to prevent them from retailing it at the present extravagant price to the public. (Hear.) Alderman WOOD said, theta Company which had allotted to a fishmonger 2,0001. a-year as a salary. and 23.0001. to purchase fish, could not benefit the public. The very tact of any one going into the market to purchase immense quantities of fish with such a known capital would be the means of raising the price in the mat ke!, and of course raising it upon the consumers. 31r. J. slim! defended the Company. The petition was then laid upon the table. Sir L. HARVEY presented a petition from Barking against the same Company.—Laid on the table. LEITH -DOCKS. Sir R. FER(lUSSOP:resenteitiiitition from Dundee against the proposed Leith Docks. Mr. lIEJME supported its prayer. Laid upon the table. THAMES QUAY. ' Col. TRENCH moved for leave to bring in a Bill for making • Quay from Craven -street, in the Strand, to Blackfriars-bridge. Mr. CALCRA FT was sorry to be obliged to oppose this mo tion, the Standing Orders, in his opinion, not haviog been corn. llied with. In the first place there had been no description of the evel of the proposed road, nor of the number of feet it occupied, lodged with the Clerk of the Peace. And secondly, in the list of the dissentients to the measure, deposited in the proper office in that Rouse, the names of the Duke of Norfolk and his tenants bad been altogether omitted. These omissions ought, he thought, at once to arrest the Bill in this stage without any further objec tion. But there were others which went to the principle of the measure itself, and which he thought must convince the House that it would be highly improper to carry it into execution. The road as at present marked out would be upwards of twenty-two feet above the level of Surrey and Arundel streets, and, as he should be able to show, very little below the first floor windows, obscuring all the lower port of the houses, and very much darken. ing the upper. Ile was instructed also to say that it was consi dered highly injutious to the trade of the inhabitants, and by no means desired, either m a matter of ornament or utility. The cost, too, would be enormous. The Chancellor of the Exchequer to be sure had been mentioned as likely to advance two hundred thousand pounds. in addition to the subscriptions ; but he should be much surprised if that Right Honourable Gentleman, with the character for prudence which he at present possessed in that House, would hazard his reputation by any such measure. But even if he did give two hundred thousand, it was not tour hundred thousand, or six hundred thousand, or five or six times that sum that would tarry the plan into effect; for it was nut the actual cost alone, but the compensation for losses of trade and for losses of property which would swell the estimate beyond all previous calculation. (Hear hear.) Lord Liverpool would not hear of this me.tsurr; the Duke of Northumberland had got rid of it ; and he did not know why the Duke of Norfolk should be compelled, at a great loss, to have this splendid impomibility tied upon his property. The Honourable Colonel was infatuated with his project, and he (Mr. Calcraft) did not deny that it looked very beautiful on paper, but before he could carry it into execution he must prevail upon his Honourable Friend the Member fur Taunton (Mr. Flaring) to raise , the five or six millions which must be required. The Honourable Member concluded by observing that if he found the House dis. posed to support him he certainly would try to throw out this Bill, and afford the Honourable Colonel more time to calculate its pro bable costs. Mr. HODUOUSE was likewise sorry to be obliged •o second what had been advanced by the Honourable Member for Ware. ham. When he first looked at the plat be thought it a splendid and beautiful project, which it would be his duty to support if it could be carried Into execution ; but front what he had heard since he was fully satisfied that it was, if practicable at all, only to be effected at such an expense as would far exceed any calculation of those who planned it. It was not, as his Hon. Friend observed. the mere cost of the work, but the enormous sums they would be obliged to pay in the way of compensation, which would render this plan so caper:sire. It presented, too, no advantage likely to -1! b'N THE BRITISH PRESS. compensate for such sacrifices ; and he should in the course of the melting present a petition (rent two individuals, the possessors of property on the line between Temple-bar and Craven-street, who declared themselves unable to consent to the proposed arrange ment, from their sense of the inimetem !asses they must suffer in whatever way the Honoursble Colonel proposed to pass his terrace through their premises. He (Mr. Hoblfouse) had done all he could to surmount the objections raised ageinet the plan by his consti tuents, hut he found their feelings an decidedly hostile that he coo sidered it liis duty to follow the course which his Honourable Friend had declared it his intention to pursue. There was a mud bank ton, which he understood would be one of the consequences of the llonouable Colored's plan ; and which must prove a very great nuisance. He was sure that every thing would be done to remove it, and he had heard tomething rid of a plan fee that pure pose. bat he mentioned it to show the numerous difficulties against which he had to contend, and as one of those evils which would be created by the very means takes to Lure it. One of the complaints most general against this measure was, that it would drive away till the present tenants from the banks of the river ; and he could not but acknowledge that it would be very difficult to grant any com pensation for such a probable loss to the owners. The Honourable Colonel had first proposed to begin at IFetorninster Bridge, but Lord Liverpool had set his face against any terrace opposite his house. Mr. M.A. Taylor too (a laugh) had denied it his counte nance. Then came the Duke of Northumberland ; he would have nothing to do with it. The Duke of Norfolk now expressed his disinclination to it; and he ( 51r. Holthouse) knew no reason why his constituents should not he allowed the same indulgence. Why, he would ask, had not the Lords of the Admiralty supported this measure if it was likely so much to ben.fit the navigation of the river. lit short, he would say to the Honourable Colonel, Stop M once, and not ;mend your money and ours in fruitless projections. Colonel TRENCH thought this Bill was eye of the most im portant improvensents which had been for many years projected in the metropolis. In answer to the objections which had been urged by the Honourable Member for Wareham upon the subject of the Standing Orders, lie would trouble the ]louse with a few obser vations. It had been said that the Ihßshould not be received, be cause notice bed not been served on those interested for that course the Committee had the authority of their legal advisers—and it was expressly ordered that no notice should be given, because it was intended that the plan should come under the head of those in tended for the improvement of the streets, but rather for the im provement of the navigation of the river, thereby saving the claims which might be anticipated on the head of compensation. And with respect to the navigation of the river, lie would here say, that the Lord Mayor and Corporation of the City of London had not de nied that the measure would beof great benefit. All the opponents of the measure seemed to be divided into two classes—those who believed they will be injured, and those who wish to make others believe sit, that they may increase their claims compensation. That compensation lie had endeavoured to ovoid, by abstaining from encroaching upon property ; and he had high legal authority for stating, that unless they touched property, no claim fur com penution would be good. He had thus endeavoured to explain away the objection upon' the subject of the Standing Orders not having been complied with, and lie begged to assure the House, that, with great ornament and utility. trade would be as hole ob structed as it was at present The subject be considered of cations) importance. he Thames was a noble riser, but its banks were a disgrace to this great country. In Dublin, where the river was little better than a muddy ditoh, they had adorned its banks with a noble and expensive quay 1 and hr trusted that the inhabitants of London would not neglect the opportunity of enabling their city to bear some comparison with it. The cost for the whole line had been estimated at tklB,oool. ; and so far from there being any in cidental expeese anticipated. men eniitent in their profession were ready, under a heavy penalty, to erect it for that sum. In expla nation of the difference in the estimatee, he begged to say, that the sum of 40'1.000/. was the estimate of a plain brick and mortar erectiol, to be defrayed by tolls, leaving a considerable expectation of' profit to the subscribers; aid that it was to be left to the Option of' Government whether they would not advance the 2130,0001. fur an ornamental and splendid line of building. This was the cause of the difference, and it would therefore be perceived that the esti. mates were not named with so mueh absurdity as had been asserted. It had been said that the pies should stop short at Watalembridge, instead of incurring the immense expense of the continuance to Illackfriats. In answer to that, be would remind the House that the expenses were to be repaid by tolls ; and as it was reasonable that one part notch frequented should defray the expense of the either which was Clot, the Cummitteohad wise:y adopted the resolu tion of extending it over that space from which they were most likely to receive a return for Owl: expenditure. The same reason, however, which had operated for it* continuance on that side, had caused it to be abandoned on the other; because the Committee had no reasonable expectation of a return for the great additional expense which might be incurred by the line front AVentruinster bridge to Craven-street. The lion. Menther concluded by mating, that the small dock mentioned had been planned in compliance with the wishes of eroprietors upon the line of the terrace, and that the Committee had made so many concessions to the wishes of those interested, he really felt some surprise at the present opposition. He implored the Howse, however, to land them an opportunity, at all events, for an atnple discussion of the merits of the project, and not, by an untimely opposition, deprive the finest metropolis in the world of such a magnificent improvement. Mr. CHOKER thought it impossible to consider the Bill before the House in any other light than as a strange anomaly. It was brought before the Houle in the shape of a private Bill, but the Hon. Gentleman with whom it originated argued upon it as if it was a public measure. In fact it was looked upon in either shape as suited the convenience of the Hon. Gentlemen who supported it. The Hon. and Gallant Gentleman (Colonel Trench) stated that the Committee had studiously avoided any recognition of the claims of individuals for compensation. Now this, one would think, should have been the first duty of a Committee. Colonel TRENCH explained. He had only alluded to the Committee of Management. Mr. CHOKER resumed. It was argued that the propcscd plan could not be considered as an invasion of private . property, as the erection was to go no further than the banks of the River; and surely, when persons had built houses on those banks, to build a high wall opposite those houses was a serious invasion of property The Hon. Gentleman had appealed to the candour and equity of the House ; but in candour and equity the House was also bound to take into consideration the injury likely to be sustained by thole ' who had buifithouses on the banks, and whose property would be invaded by this Bill, in every way except by taking the ground. Indeed he thonget the scheme would be more practicable it' the ground should be taken. It wart true compensation must be paid for it ; but then the projectors would have the ground to dispose of. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Caleraft) considered the banks of the Thames a very disagreeable object ; but this was a mere matter of taste, in which mane differed from the lion. Gentleman. The proofs of commercial industry which the banks disclosed were, in the opinion of many, by no means disagreeable objects. There was another consideration which bore directly upon the present question. It was well known that at present that! great work, the removal of London Bridge, was in agitation ; and the effect of such ' a removal upon the river has divided the opinions of the most emi nent architects. It is impossible to anticipate the effect which may be produced by the removal of this structure, serving, in same mea sure, as a great dam. It had been calculated, however, that as there was IL fall of four feet eight inches in the river at Lenden Bridge, when the Bridge bad been removed, the basin of water would be reduced nearly five feet in its level. Now this was a ma terial consideration, especially when it was recollected that the depth of water opposite to Somerset House very little exceeded five feet. Under those circumstances, it was more than probable that some vey great alteration would take place on the removal of Lon don Bridge. What that alteration would be no one could predict. 51e. Hennie, who understood these matters as well as any person, said he could not with confidence give any decided opinion. Ar ben some considerable change, therefore, wee likely to arise, would it not be better to defer the consideration of the present plan ? The great experiment, the removal of the Bridge, will have been tried at the end of four or five years, and then the utility and beauty of the Quay could be advantageously discussed. The operations of nature may, in the way he had hinted, render the present scheme unnecessary; and, under all the circumstances, lie thought it better to withdraw it for the present, and stop before the parties should be involved in litigation. Sir J. YORKE objected to the introduction of the Bill. Mr. A. ELLIS was of opinion that the Bill should not be thrown out without having its merits discussed. Lord PALMERSTON snid, it would seem, from the manner in which the Bill was treated by-Honourable Gentlemen opposed to it, that the question before the House was, whether they should adopt the plan or not. Now. the question was only whether they should entertain the proposition. His Honourable Friend Cur. (raker) objected to its having been brought forward as a private Bill; but It did not depend on the lion. and Gallant Gentleman (Colonel Trench) whether it should come before the House as a private Bill or a public measure. It would have been more con venient for the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman to have brought it forward as a public measure, but the Speaker had decided that, under all the circumstance', it could only have been brought forward as a private measure. It was said the plan might interrupt the na vigation of the river and obstruct commercial business; but where was tjse proof of this ? Had not Paris and Dublin quays, whose rivers were inconsiderable streams compared with the 'Thames ? As to the removal of London bridge, the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Croker) said it would diminish the flaw of water. Had he said it would increase the flow of water, it might be an objection to Col. Trench's plan; but where the river is to be dry, would not a beautiful and convenient quay be well substituted for an unseemly mud bank ? But the proposed plan should be considered in an. other point of view. Some new line of communication front east to west was indispensably necessary. Could any person who should set off from that House to the east end of the City at any hour alt er eight o'el ck in the morning, deny that a new line of communica tion is necessary ? Really, going through the Strand and Fleet. street was like moving in a funeral procession, the way was so much impeded with vehicles and passengers. When a stranger views the banks of our maniticent river, the question he uniformly asks is, why don't you get quays ? As to the right of individuals which had been insisted upon by his Honourable Friend (Mr. Cro ker), there would be hereafter a full opportunity of discussing their claims. He hoped the House would now consent to the introduc tion of the Bill, and that the Honourable Gentleman (Colonel Trench), although he might not have to say (as was said of another capital) that he found it of brick and left it of marble, but the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman might have the satisfaction to say that be found the banks of mud and left them of granite. Sir R. WILSON would support the introduction of the Bill, because, if the House considered that the proposed plan should be advantageous at the Westminster side, be anticipated that a simi. par plan would be submitted for the Southwark aide. He had heard it said, that Paris and Dublin had beautiful quays because their rivers were inconsiderable ; but at Petttsburgli the river was of the finest description, and the quays were magnificent, and would do honour to any capital. dlr. Secretary PEEL thought that the time had not yet arrived when a scheme of such extent as that contemplated by the Rill could be advantageously attempted. Consid rng the impor tance of the proposed ineastite, ss regarded the navigation, he thought it much better to postpone the consideration of the pro jected plan u the removal of London bridge should be executed. Really, the state of the ricer was of very great import..n:e. He (Mr. Peel) had seen a man standing under the fifth arc't of IVater loo bridee upon dry ground. It seemed to him that the water had a tendency to recede front the Southwark side. Gentlemen said, that strangers always asked were was our river ; but they might indeed ask this question, when an enormous quay of thirty tent high was built, blocking up the view. As to the facility of com munication, considering the exposure ot the new quay to the sharp south wind, and that there shall be two turnpikes on the liac, he (Me. Peel) doubted very much whether any indifidurl amid take advantage of the new communication. He wished the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman would take up some other project, useful or ornamental, for four or five years, oral then he might come down and ask tOr a discussion upon the project now belies the House. Mr. A. BA RING considered that the increase of die toa n East and West rendered a new line of communication not oily exrediect but indispensable. This groat metropolis, containing so large a population, had no better lines of communication than ninny in considerable German villages on the Rhine. He thought the question was not one of ornament or utility, but one of actind ne cessity, if it was agreed that this great metropolis should have the common conveniences of a tow,. He did not mean to argue that the proposed plan was the very best which could have been dells d. He thought that the erection ot spacious and beautiful markets were much wanted. Some Honourable Gentleman said, that if th • later quay was erected the Strand would be deserted, and urged this as an objection to the proposed plan. Rut this was only an adinie- Rion of the utility of the quay. The Right Honourable man (Mr. Peel) thought no one would ever go the new quay in preference to the Strand : both views in his ( Mr. Baring's) opinion were greatly exaggerated. The erection of the new quay would divide the communication. With respect to the effect which the adoption of the new plan would have on the value of prnrerty held in the streets leading fron. the Strand to the river, he thought it would be highly advantageous : it would double the value of houses in those streets. Under all the circumstances he trusted the Douse would treat his Honourable and Gallant Friend's proposition with common courtesy, and consent to the introduc tion of the Bill. The House then divided— For leave to bring in tile Bill - 85 Against it 45 Majority . 40 IRISH SI INI NO. Sir R. SHAW brought up the Report on the Imperial Irish Mining BilL—lt we read a first tlme, and onlered to be printed. LIVERPOOL RAILWAYS:. General GASCOVNi.: presented a petition from the .Mayor, sheriffs, and (onfmon Council of the city of Liverpool against parts of the Liverpool and Mancheater Railway Bill. The part of which they principally complained was the elongation of the line of road, 480 yards beyond that which was hid down in the original plan. This elongation of line interfered with the building.' of the Corporation, and they therefore prayed that they might be heard by Counsel and Agents before the Committee against each part of the Bill as affected them. Lord STANLEY wished that the lion. Menthrr would point out what parts precisely the petitioners complained of. General (lASCOYNE was at a loss to know what parts they had complained oldie he had not pointed out. He had distinctly stated them to be the elongation of the line of road beyond the original plan, and tire interference with the property of the Cor porat ion. Alice a few words from Lord STANLEY in explanation, the petition was referred to tire Committez. The Alliance Assurance Contany Bill was read a third time, and passtd. GAS COM PA N ER. Alderman BRIDGES presented a petition from the Gits-light and Coke Company against the Oil Gas Company Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table. EQUITABLE LOAN BANK BILL. Dr. LUSH I GTON presented a petition from Limehouse in favour of the Equitable Loan Bank Bill. IRISH PROVINCIAL BANKS. Mr. V. FITROERALD presented a petition from the Grand Jury and 111agistraey of the count/ of Clare, in favour of the establishment of Provincial Banks in Ireland. The petition was numerously and respectably signed : the petitioners prayed that the Bill on this subject now before the House might pass into a law. Mr. S. RICE brought up the Report of the Committee on the petition tar the establishment of Provincial Banks, and introduced a Bill for carrying into effect the object of the petitioners, which was read a first time. 3lr. DA IVSON presented a petition from certain Noblemen and Gentlemen in the North of Ireland, praying for the establishment of Provincial Banks.—Ordered to lie on the table. RESTRICTIONS ON THAI/E. Mr. DAWSON presented a petition, most respectably signed by several merchants and traders in the Nonlt of Ireland, pray ing for a removal of all the restrictions of trade on the Inter course between England and Ireland. The petitioners pointed out various instances in which these restrictions operated to their in jury. Among other ca..ea they stated that the duty on coals im ported into Ireland caused the mantititcuires, for the production of which coals were necessary, to be precluded from a fair competition; they were every where under-sold. In even other department of nianufsetur,s they were liable to great inconvenience, and thcre fore they prayed tor the removal of all restrictions on trade that at present affected the freedom of intercourse between the two coun tries. (Hear, Gear.}.—Ordered to be printed. SCOTCH JUDICATURE. Mr. MACKENZIE presented a petition from the county of Roes in favour of extendirg the powers of Justices under the Small Debtors' Act, and a petition from the same place praying for certain amendments in the Scotch Judicature Bill. ASSESSED TAXES. Mr. H. DAVIS presented a petition from All Saints, in Brat. to!, for the repeal of the House and Window Tax. CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION. Lord PAL3IEBSTON presented a petition from the University of Cambridge, praying that the Bill about to be introduced for the relief of the Roman Catholics might not pass into a law. The pe titioners expressed anxiety at the renewed efforts which were re cently made to carry this measure; and they stated that they remained of the same opinions which they had formerle expressed upon it. The 7 wire strengthened in these opinions by the language of Roman Catholics both in this and in other countries, which showed the principles of the Catholics to be hostile to civil and reli gious liberty. They further stated their apprehensions that, if what they now asked for was conceded, the concession would only induce them to make fresh demands. and look to ulterior measures, which, though not disclosed, would lead to an endeavour to effect a change in the constitution of the Established Church. They parti cularly prayed the House would not entertain the proposition for admitting the Boman Catholics into the great council of the nation. Mr. W. BA N KES, though unwilling to Interrupt the progress of private business, was yet desirous of briefly occupying the atten tion of the House oa the petition introduced by his noble colleague. It was signed by a large portion of that body from which it ems. nated. Ile wan the more anxious of calling the attention of the House to this petition, ax the absence of petitions against the mea sure of emancipation had been relied upon by the friends of that measure, as an argument to show that a change had taken place in the sentiments of the people of' this country on this question. At that time he knew that this petition was in preparation and pro ' grass; and the reason it was not sooner p resented was not from in difference on the part of the petitioners. but in consequence of the shortness of the interval between the period of giving notice of the question and introducing it before the llonse. The present Vice : thancelior of the Univer'ity was not a clergyman—this, though sniewhat unusual in universi y officers, appeared to him a matter 1 of little consequence; kut he noticed the circumstance of his not being a clergyman, as he observed both here and elsewhere a sys tematic sealing evinced towards the petitions and representations of the clergy on this measure. They were a large body; and were they so ignorant or ill-infomed a body, as not to then a correct opinion ? ' When the members of the Church themselves are the parties con cerned, there seems to exist a disposition in some quarters to deny them a hearing ; but is this consistent ? do we deal so in other reser? shall we say to the clergy, you are to be silent on the sub. jeer that concerto, you most nearly, yet all other men in similar cir cumstances are to obtain a full hearing? Every class in society I should unlimitedly imams the right of petition; but if one elass more than another were entitled to special advantages of this nature, that class was the clergy—the every other profession and body of indi viduals in the State had its that House some Member of their own class to speak their sentiments and assert their rights. There were in that House merchants, gentlemen of the army, the nary, the bar, and he might say of all classes, except the clergy. They pre sent the same anomaly that the state of the Catholics does ; they have no member of their own body in the !louse, and is that a rea son that their petition. when respectfully worded, should be scoffed and %corned at. while that of the Roman Catholics is re ceived with attention ? Is this wise ?—is it just ?—is it politic ? Are they the only petitioners who are to he flouted and discoun. tenanced, although the petition of a ditKrent—he would not say an adverse—(:Lurch experienced every consideration and respect ? He implored the House to deliberate maturely before the Bill to be in troduced passed through any of its rages ; before they grant, as it is stated, this unqualified emancipation ; befote they take that ulterior step which he feared was calculated to ?hate our Church Establishment, and endanger our political institutions ; before we admit the influence of that body, one of whose objects is to share the dignities of our Prelates. Mr. HUME rose to deny the charge of scoffing thrown out by the Honourable Member opposite. He never could he supposed to hare said that the clergy ought not to be heard.. It would be ab surd to imagine that he and other', in that House professing liberal sentiments could be considered adverse to 4117 party being heard. If the Honourable (lender:tan did mg understand him he would explain what he had said. Ile expressed regret that the clergy should persist in the indulgence of prejudice,' against their fellow. men professing a different creed. He had long and frequently re gretted to find the clergy a century behind the rest of the commu- Rite in that liberality of sentiment and Christian charity which ought to be their distinguishing characteristic. There was no grimed whatever for the accusation made on the other side, but it was very easy for Honourable Oentlemen, having raised a phantom of their own creation, to come down to that House and spend time in demolishing it. For his part he had throgghout done 110 more than expressed regret that in the present enlightened state of society the clito of the Established Church should be found opposing A themselves to the just claims of the Catholics; nevertheless, he wolikl not at any time have expressed objections to their being heard. Mr. BA NKES explained. He did not mean to apply his obser vations personally to Mr. Hume; but he repeated that on other oc casions when petitions were presented front the clergy, they were sneered at and treated with indifference and disrespect. Mr. C. IVILSON supported the prayer of the petition, and spoke in the highest term% of the character of the clergy, desig nating them as the guardians of our religious rights. Air. S. RICE, as having been a member of the University of Cambridge, took occasion to observe, that though the petition was entitled to every respect, there were very many at the meeting whence it emanated who altogether dissented from the matter of its prayer, and lie knew some of the most respected and popular members of the University to be included antor.gst the dissentients. It was natural that when the Catholic clergy came to that f!ouse petitioning for their rights, they should experience a reception dif ferent front those who petitioned tint for their own rights but ' against the rights of others. lie could not agrte with the assertion that the clergy were the guardians of our religious rights. That •as rather a Popish than a Protestant sentiment, for in this coun try every man was the judge of his own religious rights. Atter apologising fur trespassing upon the attention of the House, he concluded by saying that lie wished to record the tact that many respectable member% of the University were opposed to the prayer of the petition. Mr. /A LAKES admitted the statement of the Hon. Member who spoke last. Alr. C. PEI.H.AM said a few words not audible in the gallery. Mr. C. WILSON, in explanation, said, that he had not called the clergy the only guardians of our religious rights, but he con sidered them the best. . . . Air. CHOKER presented some papers which had been ordered by the House. WASTE LANDS IN CANADA. Mr. W. HORTI)N, alter a few words, of which hr.! little wu audible in the gallery, moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the sale and improvement of waste lands in the province of Um - er Canada. . . A MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, expressed a hope that roinjury would be dune to the Indian tribes. Mr. W. HORTON assured him that their rights should be • respected. Mr. HUME did not rise to object to the principle of the measure. Fire years ago he had himself broached the subject, but he was not then strengthened by the official information which bad since come into his ion. The measure now proposed for the settlement of the c ol o n y ought to have been brought forward long since, and the colonial department of our Government was highly to blame for having delayed it so long. In the years 1817, 1818, 1019, and lON, about 40,000 emigrants were sent from this country—at least 39,180 arrived. They were sent from this country in a time of great public distress, and niany of them were obliged to go to the rained States in search of what ought to have been supplied to thew' in our own colony ; for although land vas offered to than, yet it was in a situation so remote from society as to make the ofer altogether nugatory. Of the number who went out only 180 families settled on crown lands. If the Bill shall hare for its object a proper settlement of those lands, it will remove the system of mismar.agentein which has hitherto prevailed there. Ile could not--no man ought to be silent when an opportunity of.. feted for noticing the conduct of the Colonial Departanent, fur none demanded it more; and if he had to address a reformed House, be should feel ft his ditty to move the impeachment of the Noble bind at the head of that department, and to propose an Address to the Crown, praying his removal from office. His grounds of clinpla;nt were not confined to cataada, or the Cape of Good Hope, or the lonian Islands, for in other Colonies as well as in these, mal-administration prevailed. If the Honourable Gentleman opposite had it in his power to say anything in vindi cation let him do so. %Vheti he (Mr. Hume) thought of what was going on in the Cape of Good Hope, he could not remain quiet, especially so long as the Nuble Lord at the head of the Co lorist Department sits still, and allows British subjects to endure the tyranny of being liable to transportation to Botany Bay, by decisions made in disacconlance with the princilaks of freedom. He really fit that if he could do en it would be effecting a great object to prevail upon the House to address the Crown, baying for the removal of the Noble Lord front the office which he had so long and KO inefficiently tilled. The Howie would scarcely believe the amount of fees charged upon grants of land in Canada. kitty acres were said to be given gratis, but such was not the fact; thirty pound; was charged for two hundred acres, and in that proportion for larger qnantities. This sum, though small for English land, was considerable when charged for land in Canada. Why not adopt the system pastimed in the United States? He was aware that a reduction in this particular had taken place, but be asked why had such an abuse ever existed ? If they expected the Colony to pay its own expenses they should relieve it from all such oppres sion. Before he sat down lie wished to inquire if it was intended to give a too •opoly to those who were to get possession of the land, so as that they inielit afterwards dole it out as they thought proper to the settlers? Such a course would as much have the effect of in juring the Colony as the vices of the former system of Govan meet. He wished to know whether all the rights reserved by the Crown and the Clergy were to be transferred ? Mr. BA R IN!) was desirous of learning (se we understood) whether this was an act framed for the purpose of giving the neces sary encouragement to colonisation, or whether it was not rather a mode of conferring power upon the Crown to receive money from • Joint Stock Company to be formed in pursuance for the purchase of the waste lands of Canada ? Mr. FITZGERALD had sat on the Committee in which the questions now before the House, and our ge teral Colonial policy, were subjects of consideration, and thought himself ernitled elssay the documents, papers, and proceedings of that Committee went to prove the great improvements which had taken place in our Cadonial possessions. He believed there existed a correspondent degree of gratitude in the minds of the settlers who were made the subject of those regulations. Ile could answer for it, that the in dividuals who had emigrated in tl e Canada, from the south of Ireland felt the warmest gratitude to Govetn.nent for the beneth e :t and prudent measures adopted for their advantage. They had re ceived every facility and furtherance in their intentions, and art agent had been employed to place them in comfort in their severs.' settlements. It would be incorrect to say it was the intention s f the Colonial Department of his 3lajesty's Government to introduce an improved system into our Colonial policy ; fur that system ens already in operation, and bad been acted upon this a considerable time. lIIr. GORDON could not understand what right the Honour. able Member for Montrose had to make use of such harsh and strong language as he had that night adopted towards the conduct of the Noble Lord at the head of the Colonial Department. lf evcral reasons might be adduced and numerous causes assigned as maul ing the progress of improvement in our Colon . es. Among the rest, none was more prom inent than want of capital, and its judicious direction towar ds jects of improvement. But now, at least, it must be allowed that a different c ease was to be pursued. And lie did think the language V the Honourable illionhee particularly inopportune and uncalled-for at Lie present liniment. It was manifestly unjust to blame the Noble Earl (Bathurst) solely for appointments which had been made by hint in concurrerce with the rest of his Majesty's Govemmet t. The Honourable '3leinber had demanded the rccal of Lord Charles Somerset from the Cape of Good Hope. If the Noble Lord were not recalled, and any blame attached on that account, surely the rest of the Cabinet were equally culpable with the Noble Larl. Ile had been in. formed, and he partly believed, that it was formerly the practice of noblemen and persons of rank and influence, when they wanted to get rid of an individual or provide for him, to send him out to she Colonies. (A laugh.) That practice did not now prevail ; and, as he understood, an entire alteration had taken place in the system of our Colonial Policy in that as well as in other respects. Mr. BRIGHT thought it absolutely necessary, looking to the present state of our Canadian possessims, to in: ease the popula tion and improve the situation of those colonies. He thought, as a matter of right and courtesy, that the present plan should be submitted to the consideration of the persona Lest calculated, from local knowledge, to form a conclusive judg.nent upou its utility. It was very doubtful whether the House, at the present moment, possessed sufficient information respecting that wild and extensise tract of country, to legislate for it with advantage. It would fol low as a matter of course upon the incorporation of the pmposcd Company, that from their large capital and extensive influence they would naturally obtain all the choice lands of the country. He would not pretend to say what were to be the effects of this monopoly, but lie feared they would prove unfavJurable to a plan of extensive colonisatior. The House were left completely in the dark upon many subjects come ed with the intended Bill ; among the rest, he was not aware whether the measure was in tended to apply to Upper or Lower Canada. How, he would ask, was the 20,0001., which Government would receive front the Com pany annually, for a period of I f een years, to be applied? it was said it was to be devoted to colonial purposes; that was a vague method of accounting for its application ; but he trusted it might be employed in the encot rigement of emigration, and in affieding proper advantages to the settlers. Mr. A. BA RING said it was important to look well into the whole of our conduct towards the Canticles. and also to weigh our future pole aid its cons q uences, ; r :viously to the adoption of r. fresh measures. This was our only remaining colony in tu .t quarter of the world, and its situation wax in every teepect a n.ost singular true. From its local situation, its great distance hum tie Mother Country, aid its proximity to what might soon be a hostile neighbour of great power and resources, it must be admitted by every person who thought upon the subject that it was extremely unlikely to remain al ays a colony to this country. It was also a dictum of sound policy, that one country was nut, in the nature of things, destined to remain long a colony to anoth er , when boat supplied identical productions. Now this was the case with Canada and Great Britain. That colony is not only placed in that situa thin, but Gentlemen would do well to castanet its geotriphical situation. It was a narrow strip of land. ex:ending I,SOO utiles in length, and exposed, from its local situation, to the effbrts of a most powerful and ambitious people. Color those circumstances, he confessed, if it were not too bold a question, he would submit to his Majesty's Ministers, whether that colony had not &Ina le arrived at that period of maturity, when it might be proper to art it npon its own legs, and so place it in a situ ultra to defend itself ? 'hether such a line of proceeding were to be adopted or not, it would at least be well to exhibit a degree of friendly feeling and lit e ;to. licy towards our colonies , and show a disposition to treat them as an indulgent parent. If we did intend to continue our present line of conduct, and persist in treating those countries as Colonies in op position to the whole weight and evidence of history and hunt= character, we must take care to have the hearts of the people not merely not against us, but enthusiastically with us in our attempt. And how could that desirable object be so well effected as by tbe conduct he had pointed out to the House. and the equal estenstoo of commercial advantages to that part of the erapi:e? It' tlus ware Fignumme 1 FM ~"'. I&