The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-03-28 00:00:00

I 'me 10. hair rel• t}i.t ne ith er the Ron Mover nr Seconder of this motion. could have a greater rcripect for the privi leges of the House than he had. Ilia conduct, ever same he was a Member, was a proof how little lie would be disposed to reflect on its charact.sr or Ili-- pute its authority. flut the motion required, as was agreed on all hands, the era , e•t di liberatio n ; the Clerk had reads loog publication, and ilw Ilan. Mover badivointed out the passage, which, he COll - trenched on their privileges ; iu any long publicetion, it vas ddlicalt to deei.le as to the cha racter of parts, without au opportunity of comparing the whole, and.in this, professAly grounded on legal aroument. the difficulty was much increased. Ile was, therefore. in hopes, that in order to give Cca •lemen time to weight and make up their minds on •his important question, the Hon. Mover and Se • oscler would consent to adjourn. the debate. This .vas rendered still more desirable from the minds of many Members being entirely occupied with the other important question which demanded all their -attention at this time. The decision too, would ivive greater authority, being conic to after due de iiiberation. And under these circumstances lie staid move, ••• That the debate be adjourned till erns day se'imight." The Cita scet.t.oa of the Escurial:km did not arise to oppose the adjournment, but to know whe ther the House would be disposed to consent to its brio" post poric,l to so distant a day? In his opinion, thersoliest posibleilay was desirable, both as due to dignity of the House, and th e Wi ngs a m , -viduni Member, accused of violating their privilegra. Ile was itot sure how far the order towithdraw would operate an as to exclude that Member, till the vote of the House on his own case—(Hear ! Gear! Porn the oppuite ailc.J The Honour atdr need not cheer him ; he was "iris no opinion, but mer e ly ex p iess i ng hi s doubts, to be resolved by the Chair. lie must sai, that it conl.l neither appear strictly cor rect, nor be very pleasant, that a person. charged with a gross breach of privilege, should, all the intermediate time, partake in the counsels of the House he had attempted to degrade. Cases of privilege had precedence 0441 other business, and, he tiosted, that to-morrow, or Thursday, would be fixed on for this dis.nission, rather than a mole lis t tin day. • 111 r. WHITBREAD said, his Right lion. Friend (Ur. l'onswiliy) had it only in tieo, by the adjourn ment, to come to a decision, with a full knowledge of the case. The Right Hon. Cent. opposite, knew that a question all chug I * elf, personally, Nit, also depending, and vet lie would wish to get ti l t s new ease to interfere with that, of at least .goal importance. He would not iinpute it to him, that he wished by this means to distract the attentioo of the public and the Hinise.—/flear hear!/—fle would not stipimee that the Right Roo. Gentleman ' , firer:to:l at this accidental inter. roptinn—( Hear ! hear !)—But, could the Right tiustoorAble Gentleman say, tl at, after the ex hausting debate of this night, Gentlemen would be able, Ly the time they cause to the House to.surie row, to make themselves pertectly masters of this long and important subject, aue.ilviiig so nearly the emanation of the country, and the weirdly Baronet who had lately left the House. Fur hims-tf, he *mild say, he was not prepared now to make up his wind on the subject, nor could he by to.moriow be ready to lay his hand on his heart and give ail honest vote oil the ques tion. The Right Him. Gulitlenian's own case, as there were many Gentlemr is yet to speak on it, could not be expected to be terminated tomight. Even if it was ter 11111 l atilt it a late hour On Thursday morning, the earnest day they could come to the discussion of this new toric, would be Friday, for which dry he wislicd it to he tiled. Lord Foi.kstome, on account of the importance of the question to the 'louse, and his worthy Friend, rejoiced that an adjournment to afford t i me for due deliberation and inquiry would be agreed •ii. Hr would venture to say, that all those Gentlemen who would give it their serious attention, the more they looked at it, the more they would find that it was a topic that hurl occupied and divided the most learned mid great authorities. When they looked into these matters, he hoped they would come down with very different feelings from those of the Hon. 'Mover and Seconder of the resolutions. Ile hoped they would come down, not with a view to allude to former denotes, and to depress the spirit of Jacoloinisin in the country, but to acknowledge that the fundamental law of the laud was to be de s id it by their vote. Mr. Braves said, the Noble Lord had stated those reasons for the delay of the discussion of this &object, which, in his mind, were an objection to its Wilier postponement. At the seine time, lie Iced surrounded the question with considerable dif ficulty and legal doubt, which did not appei tam to it on the present occasion. But the Noble Lord would recollect, that the liberty of a British subject was novolved tii their con.iderabou. Therefore, if the imprisonment were, as the Hon. Baronet had re presented, a breach of the law of the land, it was in cumbent that the I tou-e should bring it under their ttamrifiute aneuriiiii. Fur it must he admitted. if the first step iu this proceeding were nujost, it be came theta not to mini um it any longer. It was to this view, he cane-iced it proper to enter Mime itintely into the whole of the case, which would be doing justice to the %kindly Baronet, nod also lir the individual now toothier' within a 'orison. The lion. Baronet had stated, that the warrant issued on this occasion by the Speaker, was Illegal; now, that was not only important in littlfs hut was particularly serious in its consequen c.q, because that illegality was still coots 111111 l im- Prlionmetit. This was not the first time his Right Hots. Friend (Mr, Perceval) had hint charged with all iutention to delay any question, when some slight reason could be assigned for the accusation. hut if such motives could lie sompio-ed to :ictuate Ito Right Hon. Friend, he might as well hose ie sorted to such an expedient for delay in the fernier luaotes of this inquiry. With respect to the pro. witty of taking this charge against the llonourable Baronet under their investigation, hr felt, from the !eaten, before stated, a reluctance even to the ad journment till to-morrow. The CIIANCELLOR of the Excsirgrcaeonfeidereil it his dusty to reply to the suggest 1111 l $ which were !wade by thr lion. Clentlesuars opposite. Mien that Gentleman chose to impute to hem a desire to 4 rlay the Inquiry iiito the Estpeilition to the Scheldt, he stated what lie wetild never sit there to hear, without rising to refute the accusation. if the House would consider the state of the evi d •iiee which had been sulduced, stud the readi ness with which fe e..nhruced the discussion, they would certainly exelillemte him from harbouring that intention. If it had been his wish, it might be remembered the evidence was not wholly print ed, and nape's relative to this Expedition remained in (hi, state, on the table. Every one must do I the justice to acknowledge, that, from the first,. when this inquiry was emeadered necessary, he had cautiously abstained from throwing any obstacle in the way. How could any Gentleman, in the present itistance, consider him the author of any delay? Hid he cause the lion. Bart. to write the letter and observations charged against him this day ? did he cause him to publish these libellous observations, on Saturday last. in The Political Register of Mr. Cobbett ? No, there was not any man could suppose lie Ind any part in the conduct of the Hon. Baronet. The question then lit fore the House was one of very serious and grave impor tance, for it involved the very existence of the Constitution; and heconeeived, that whoever did slot consider it a sulject of such grave importance, would suffer the dignity sad the privileges of that House to be trampled under their feet. Mr. Bartivare agreed with the Learned Gentle man under the gallery (Mr. Steven) that the ques tion wv of such a mature as to call for the imme diate attention of the House. But from what had fallen from those who had expressed their senti ments, it seemed to be generally admitted, that a future day would, under circumstances, be the most appropriate for agitating the subject. The only consideration now to he entertained was, what day would be the fittest fur the discussion ? In his opinion a day ought to be named, by which time the very important inquiry they were now engaged in, might be completely disposed of, which ought, at this very time, to be con sidered a great question under their investigation. He had no apprehension about the individual who was now iu confinement by the power of that House, or that any illegality would be discovered in the proceeding ; because he believed that the privileges of the House of Commons had ut all times been acknowledged and considered as a part of the law of the bind. He was not aware of any • difference which could result as to the therge it self, whether they took it into consideration to morrow or on Friday. But whatever day was ap pointed, he was anxious that it should not interfere with the inquiry under consideration. • Mr. W. WYNNE, mentioned the case of Steele, respecting a publication called The Crisis. Then, the charge was made on a certain day, the 13th of March, and an adjournment of five days was agreed to ; also the one of Major Scott, iu which an ad journment took place. Therefore, as to prece dents, he thought there could be no objection to adjourn this question till Friday, because the question now before them was of the greatest nu portance ; and, besides, it would not be possible. after the rising of the House, for Gentlemen to have sufficient time for investigating the passage cornpll4ll34ll.llgßiUllt. Mantloces concurred in the propriety of the adjournment till Friday. The SPlAlLkltthen put the question upon. the arneudmeut proposed by Mr. Whitbread, " That the charge be taken into • consideratieo on Friday," when strangers were ordered to withdraw, anti a division took plac. Ayes 146 Noel Majority against t►e Amendment.. Sil Vt'hile strangers were excluded, there was another division, which, we understand, was on the amend ment of Mr. NEat:►vat., " That the question be adjourned till to.tnorrow." Ayes Nuts Majority Strangers were again admitted, and the House proceeded with the a.ljonrnrd debate on THE SCHELDT EXPEDITION. Mr. PoNSoNRY again addressed the House, and stated, that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had in the course of his speech, last night, maintained that the principal inducement which led to the adoption of the expedition, erns the asdetance which thereby night have been given to Austria, at the time -hr was making her must arduous struggle against our enemy. Looking at the probability of such an expedition being capable of producing this effect, the assertion of the Noble Lord must always be considered extraordinary ; hut it was still more ex traordinary. wheu he read a lever from the Noble Lord, to the Commander-in-Chief of the (stitch tiou. (Mr. Ponsonby here read the letter he al luded to ) Now it was evident the Noble Lord, in that letter, directed the attention of the Co 11111 l un der in-Chief to another object, which lie describe. as the priinary olject of the expedition. lie there directs the Commander-in-Chief to consider, that, although the result might be favourable to the strngles of Austria. yet the most essential part of the urelertakiiig was the taking of Antwerp, and the destruction of the works and arsenalsof Flush ing. But how could the Noble Lot& defend his conduct, when lie resolved on the Expedition, contrary to the opistinti of the Officers whom he consulted ? mode the Noble Lord re sorted to for framing boa excuse. was not a little surprising: If (said he,) your own Counsel should be against you, yet that might not prevent you purchasing the estate." But would the Noble Lord argue., that if Counsel should say, the title is bad, and you hare no chance of legally acq wring the property ; at the same time, if the risk were run, and the estate could by any means be got pos session of, there was some ground to expect pos. se, , riton might forcibly be maintained ; would the Noble LOlll. under such an opinion of Coulisel. proceed to the purchase of the estate ? Whatever he may have done in respect to the Expedition, he would girt him credit that he would out venture to purchase an estate in oppositon to such au opinion. It, indeed, is Minirer proceeded at env time to set contrary to the information he receives, it became the House to punish his conduct. • The Noble Lord had nomle it matter of complaint that hi,. No ble Friend (Porcliester) hail not brought forsiaid the evidence of General Brownrigg. In aflaw.-t, h e must observe, that it was the wish of his Nu- We Friend to have hail, in the first instance, the evidence of that General, and lie was applied to accordingly; and it he did not sootier appear to give his trains:flue, K was no &nit on the part of his Noble Friend. However stud General did after wards appear, and the Noble Lord had a fur op portunity of gui JJ IJJ g every evidence from that °di rer, relative to the present ritie.sti.m. But what was the ceusequeuce of his esauriiietiori ? Why, Ge neral browirrigg asserts, that if the army hail ar t rived 01/ the 3J of August, the Expedition, iu his opinion, would have been successful. But this was the mere testimony of inference, founded 'spoil con jecture.. The Noble Lord himself dons not concur tit the testimony of Gen. Brownrigg, which he consi dered so important ; for, the Noble Lord had ob served, there was no date, when he conld say the Expedition might not have been successful.— Though General Brownrigg made the statement, that, if' the Expedition had arrived on the 3.1 of August, it would have been successful, nut the Noble lard had considered that evidence so veiy material ; vet the Noble Lord, who went to se , the embarkation, who saw the whole sail, stint was at Deal at the tiine, must have known it was impossible the Expedition could arrive on that day. He had further alleged, in his own defence, there spiny accidents ensued, which ' it was impossible to prevent. To be sure there were, in the course of things, many accidents, • whirl' roinelin i e s were nut foreseen, nor could be prevented. But the Noble Lord was answerable to the Howie, not for the event of accident, but fur undertiking whet was, in the course of al hit- fuse things, an impossibility. The Noble Lord had inquired if Lord Chatham did not once send an expedition to Rochfort, and it failed ; and yet the Earl of Chatham was not called to an account. But the wide diffesence between the Noble Lord and that great man ought to be called to their re collection. Lord Chatham had long deserved well of his country, and was held in great estimation .. His services and talents were very dissimilar loin thoie of the Noble Lord. But could not the nu merous successful undertakings of Lord Chat ham be 'Petitioned for example, and not the only one in which he failed ? They would also consider the prosperous limes, when Lord Chatham sent the expedition to ttochfort, and even then he start only 7000 men; but the Noble Lord sent the whole, and the last disposable force the country porsiessed, and risked them cm a perilous service, and, at this time, offered an ex•- , ruse, by quoting the example of Lord Cluithem, iii the only rape/boleti where he failed. Though the Noble Lord had considered the evidence of General Brownrigg as the most material, yet be called upon them to look at the Juurual of thearmy, and they would find what it scud upon the subject. Upon the 4th of August, the same journal stated. that the naval pastorals were in a situation In which they could he protected, by the guns of the citadel, which, added the journal, was not an understood. It stated, also, that upou. the nth of Augult 2.000 French and upwards of I,ooh Dutch troop% Were in Antwerp, ten squadrons at Bergen-op-Zoom, and great numbers moving in every direction. If this was true, supposing that the Expedition had arrived 'on the 3d of August, he would ask. where was the ground or excuse for allying that they would have found it in a state riot prepared to resist them? The Maisie Lord bad talked of the quality and courage of our troops, and concluded his pauegyric, by saying, that he would not fear to commit an inferior num ber of' British soldiers to an undertaking of the kind, not fearing but that their thirst for military glory, and talent for military achievement, would bring them triumphant over superior numbers; but, before the Noble Lord determined upon any such experiment, he would do well to reflect upon the resistance which a people is capable of making to any force ; he would do well to re flect upon the sieges of Gerona and Satagoma, in which the efforts of French discipline were so long withstood. But, to return to the journal ;it proceeded to state, that, upon the loth of August, 45,1100 troops of the hare arrived at Bergen-Op- Zoom. Intelligence was even obtained by the Com mander-in-Chief himself, from confidential quarters, corroborating such representations, and confirming all the previous intelligence as true ; yet the Noble Lord had told them, notwithstanding those facts, and this confirmation of them, that there was 110 force,, at that time, at Antwerp, or in the vicinity. Again, the journal proceeded to state, that upon tbd petit or 19th of August, information was received 'us to the state of Antwerp; The Noble Lord ad. nutted the fact, but asserted that it was informa tMo received by the Commanders of the forces alone. He (Mr. Ponsouby) had reason to think otherwise. Upon the same authority it appeared that no accurate Recount of the citadel could be got ; none but military men, to whom the charge of it was entrusted, being admitted ; yet-this. very garrison the Noble Lord had been pleased to represent so 'needy neglected by the French. —The information of his own spy upon those topics, should have opened his eyes. With re spect to the forts of Lillo and Likfkenshoeik, his own spy had given information, representing Lillo as a strong place of defence, but Liellten shoeilt ss not, in his opinion, bomb woof, though otherwise well secured. It appeared that, on the sth or 6th of August, five. or six thousand French troops were at 'Bergen-op-Zoom, and, on the lith, there were twenty-six thousand troops at Bergen-op-Zoom and Antwerp. exclusi ve o f the garrison of Flushing. Yet those places were considered by the Noble Lord, to be so frivolous and unimportant in the estimation of France, that he did not expect to find any difficulty in getting possession of them, so fully was his mind occupied with that idea, and so successfully did he labour to disseminate it, that perhaps almost all who went on the Expedition went with eh impression that they would scarcely have in enemy to meet. The Noble Lord had uodertuken to justify the Expedi tion by the iuformstain upon which it was uuder taken. The authorities to which he (Mr. Ponsonby) had appealed in the venous instances which he laid before them, were selected from that information upon which the Noble Lord had professed to pro ceed, with what coasistency the Haase would judge. As to the naval part of the question, he thought it NM reprehensible as the military. It was known that the num igstion of the Scheldt was so difficult that a pilot would have been necessary to every lure-of-battle ship and frigate, and that not one of 1 the officers was acquainted with die place. What then did the Government do under such diem:i v:vices ?It procured one pilot, one single man, for ' the purpose of conveying four hundred vessels to a difficult destination. Let them nest see how Ge neral Brownrigg himself thought upon those mat ters,at the Conned of War,which was held ar Bathe. Ile had undertaken to state the progress of the Expe. dition, for the Metter deciding of the judgment of the Lieutenants -General ; and in this statement he had offered it us a reason for not occupying Cadsand. that the number of troops made it impracticable. or at least imprudent. Such was the reel condition of Cudsand, though the Noble Lord hod thought it right to say that there were not 200. men there. Generil Browntigg had been questioned as to the Marquis of Huntly'o conduct, of which he 'hail stated his complete approhativo, saving. that, ill it stinil4r situation. he would have adopted a similar hue of courloct himself. It was evident, therefor , . that lathe blame was imputable to Ministers, who hail sent out a ffruce not adequate to the purpose for which ml was deeigued.—(Hertr ! Ater 'l—la another part lathed stated the forceo of the enemy at 35,500 men. Thus_ the recorded opinions of General Browttrigiwere in direct hostility with the professions alai defence of the Noble Lord. But, would the Noble Lord insinuate that Gen. Brown rigg had deceiver{ the Liesitenants-General uomi that occasion ? It was true (bet General lirowiirigg had declared upon his examination that they hurl but 30,000 meal s but was not that Dumber us ef fectual in preventing the object 111 COllleMphi , /01), As 300.000 ? The success against Antwerp, he said, depended much upon promptness, and upon the powession of the two forts. It was known on the Ist of August, that the enemy's fleet was above the boom of Lillo, arid in the opinions of most, com pletely unattackalde; the armament had but one option, either to proceed by land or by water, but as for celerity of operation, it did not seem by any means a thing capable of taking place. General Brownrigg had meutinned in his atatemen., that the forces w.re not sufficient to invest Antwerp, he who had talked before of taking it on the loth by bombardment; indeed when they looked to his ei idence, and to the other doeurnints of General Brownrigg 's opinions, they ennid scarcely think that it was the same Gentleman whore 'sentiments they were contemplating. Were those Generals wrong in the advice they bad given, or did the Quarter-Master General deceive them? was it wrong to leave it ? The Noble Lord had said, that, if it was tried, he had no doubt that it would be suc cessful. Who then was ? why was thee:- pertinent not made? If the Noble Lord thought it was conducted wrong, why did he not say so openly ? why, when Ministers informed His Majesty to say that the failure !needed no inquiry, did he not accuse Ministers of saying what was not the truth ? and with what grace could he 1600 conic for ward to make a defence, grounded upon charges which he had hewer made, until every other species of argument had failed Inuit ? But it was contendea, that a diverbion w tu%our of Austria was necessary and applied for. But did Austria apply fur a diversion in that quarter ? Was the Scheldt the point to which she was anxious that our endeavours aboald he directed ? No, it was in the Nerth of Germany that she would have ors act— ( Hear ! hear !) and that not by a great arm.. meat. The woldi vi ner appticanoo renuieed olsty some cavalry and some artillery ; and insisted. in one place, that even a detachment might be of con. siderable service. It was impossible, therefor's. that the Noble Lord could defend himself upon the desire of Austria, which was directed to a dif ferent and a much more limited operation. From the gesture, the mariner, and language of the Noble Lord, last night, one would have been in clined to think, that lie had done something great, or listened to something pleasant. instead of bring occupied in debating the disasters which he had brought upon his country, and the many thousands of his countrymen whom he had caused to perish—(Hear! hear !)—The tone of his feel ings must surely be very different from those of other men. when levity and cheerfulness were the characteristics of his manner upon such an occasion ; but the responsibilitycould not be lessened by such conduct. The Noble Lord had linked been guilty of the greatest impropnety in the Expedition—he had sent it one entire month later than. according to the opt mou of Slirfl.Popliarn, it ought to have gene; he had treated the opinion of Sir It. Strachan with the same levity he had that night pursued towards the House; the flippant answer which d him upon all occasions, was, " Go on ; go on ; I dare say you will do very well." But the Noble I -.I had said it was necessary, in order to raise the mi litary character and spirit of the country. As to military character and spirit, there never was a time when either stood higher, or more justly so, in this opinion of the country and of the world. than at the present moment ; but supposing that they required to he improved, was this,the way to improve thew ? (Hear ! hear !)—lit was a most assuming and pre sumptuous declaration, but it seemed to be a test. fall and favourite one : it was resorted to by the same Noble Lord. to excuse the failures in Spain ; but for his part. be was yet to learn what silvan. tage could result to the military character anti spi rit, by sending out expeditions which every one al. lowed were impracticable. The Noble Lord had asked triumpluitstly.would they censure Nelms"' for his expedition to Copenhagen or to Aboukir ? But did the Noble Lord mean to draw a comparison's between Nelson and the Commander 'shout he hail appointed over the forces? It appeared as if the Noble Lord could willingly throw the blame noon others; but at best he would only throw it from t is own shoulders upon those of the Commander, created by himself. and *eat upon IN utiderruking which almost wholly depended upon celerity - . sagacity, and dispatch. The Noble Lord had expressed his contidence 'ist the House would acquit him hot lie (Mr. Poosonti3 ) was confident. that in its justice it would paw the resoln:losis. lie House might' be said in Roma degree to have brought this evil upon the country, by permitting sucb men to continue in office. after such proofs of incompe. wag , and rashiseso. It hail passed over the Convects tine o f Chan ; ( Hear ! hear:) it had passed over Sur John Nloore's inifortustate campaign in Spain; it had passed over such Acta, and those whom it hail so often pardoned, conetised themselves similes:el in the error, which accordingly they had th e r e .. suniption to repeat. Was the Noble Lord right or