The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1819-05-11 00:00:00

.~ the large military force winch the Government ►eemed, if possible, deter mi i sed to maintain, in a tone of geoeral pece. There were, rfolll the It-- 1". 0 . 29.000 turn for Great Wallin; 211,05 m for ; a.,41 AVM fur the Colonies. The Nolle I.••rd onnuatte (Lisid Castlereagh) Itad as yet made ant no case whatever to justify the maintersauce of such is force. lie had out *hewn that the Was able to support sn, li a burden, or now tar it to be upheld, coisaistriitly with the public hherty. The. Report did out state 1101. or here tit. large force war to be applied. It merely iiiiiiii,stril that a reduction of fifty thousand mess hail takes, place since the year 1817. He cosp t.•nJrd for the necessity of strewing some adequate iiisidication fur the enormous expense which so large a shooting army must entail upon the coun try. It was not enough to say that the present grain was smaller thou a preceding one, it must be also blirwii that it was just, and absolutely sprees- Nary. In looking at the Report of the Committee of Funnier, the estimate of the income and ex pesidoilre, for the year 1819, would be fully seen. It appeared that the expenditure fur this year would am tto 68,000,000/. and the income only to 54.000 090/. leaving is deficit of 14.000,000/. Agatirst this deficit was to be set off 16,000,e00/. the amount of the Sinking Fund, which would leave a balance of about 1,900,000/. available only. F.veis in this calculation, the Committee of Founice ailinst that they cannot reckon with precision upon Ilse produce of a certain portion of the taxes upon exciseible irtitles, ouless the illicit trader shall be Mole eff . a.ctually put down ; neither wits there Noy ground to expect ally immediate improve ment in the sate a the finances of the country.— He repeated that he was at a loss to see the necessity iif such a standing army. England was in peace with her foreign relations—domestic tranquillity may be said to reign. Besides, in the discussion that had taken place upon this subject, no allusion had hero made to the degree of protection the country had from the naval force which was kept up. It had been said that Ireland required ■ large army for internal purposes iii aid of the Civil Power. Why not rather reform the state of the Civil Power 111 that country, evil put it ou a f oo ting more resem bling the same PrhEr in Fogland Why not diffuse inure generally the blessings of a good Government, and give the people an interest in the maintenance of the Laws ? The Ilo•s. Baronet then reviewed the expenses of the va n ou• offices in the Irish Govern ment. The Chief Secretary, for instance, had an establishment kept up for him in the Castle of Du hliii, and another in the Phoenix Park. Why was such en office placed oil a more extensive scale in Ireland than in England ? There was also the office i.f Secretary at War in Ireland, the office of i Army Accounts, the Staff, and other departments, which he thought ought to be considerably eCOIIO - Staff in Ireland cost the country 19,000/. moil in Scotland it cost only 1,900/. Sure ly such an expeliditure ought to be inquired into, with m view to a suitable reduction to meet the exigencies of the country. lie said, that if the system of government its Ireland was changed, if obnoxious lows were repealed. in short, if pains were taken to gain the confidence mot the off chops or the priple, there would be no or cessity lin a 'biotin% army in that country, and a great saving in dila branch of the public expen diture might bromide. FF.. next adverted to the dif• fereist public military offices, many of which he Cllliritleretl as unnecessary, and each of which had a number of hoards, clerks, and officers—the expenses of these offices, lie said, amounted to one hundred and fifty thousand pounds per year. There was the War Office, the Army Account Office, cod another. These simple and obvious moiler of reductom had, however, e►caped the ob sersabou of Ministers. It was In be lamented that any fair subject of retrenclimeut should escape them at a time like the present; lie trusted, how ever, that every Member of the House would make every effort to diminish the public expenditure.— It was with 'hat feeling, he said, that he trespassed Upon their attention. Fle should now only express a hope, that the Gentlemen who saw the thing in the same light that he did, will firmly persevere io a constitutional opposition to the increase of the public burdens, and to the support of a standing army.. eolonel DAVIES said, that even if he were to agree in all he had heard on this subject from IWO- Hostels—that even if he were to take fur granted the case made out fur Ministers, in order to justify the ',resent extent of the military establishment— grinding all this, he yet would prove, that without diminishing that force, there could be effected a saving in the army for England and the Colonies of 1.20,000 f. a-year. To prove this it would, he said, he necessary to go somewhat into a dry de. Lill. In the course of last autumn it was pretty currently reported among the military circles, that it was in the contemplation of Government to reduce three regiments of cavalry ; but now from the statement of the Noble Lard, he had to cou clmle such was not—at least that such is nut the intention of Ministers. He would now only Pay that that Report gave great satisfac tion to the public. lie would now proceed to *hew who saving might be effected in the cavalry depart. :nem of the army, without impairing its strength. (lure the Hon. Gentleman went into a minute cal. culation, to 'hew that if three regiments of cavalry were reduced un the one hand, and on the other, if the different cavalry cutir., eunsisting now of 380 men, were increased to ClO—which he contender, nigh. 1•01 ttttt landed by precisely the same num. ber cifleers, commissioned and -coinist'ssou “ os a corp. of o n ly 38J—thstt, with the reduction of Allowance, men, horses, forage, itc. there would 111 the cavalry deparinient be effected a saviti4 of J9,9t10/. a-yeari The saving on the infantry, he said, would proceed on the same principle.— The present state of the infantry is seven bat talions of foot guards, 99 battalions of infan try. Of the-e he would confine himself to the number in Great Britain and her Colonies, be ing 84 battalions, amounting to 54.600 rank Rood rile. Now if fifteen of these battalions were re sixty-einie would remain; and if these sixty. mot batialionis had each 800 men, instead of 4360 men, which wis the present force, they would ;mount to more than 54.600 men ; and he would appeal to 0•11N•ty military man in the (louse whether Ole 4.1:11e number of officers and non-commissioned Olive's which now command the battalions of 650 sawn eadt, would not b. fully sufficient to regulate ! and to keep in order a battelion of SOO men.— ! 'Pins plan would by no means impair, but, on the contrary, increase the strength of the army; and i vet it would save the public no less a sum than 1 . 00,000/. more. To this he knew it might he ob jected, that by thus reducing the number of batta lions, a sufficient foundation would not he left for the army, should a state oh war render it necessary to increase it ; hut he did not apprehend that such an objection could have any force, when the present enlarged scale of the army was considered— • scale much larger than any peace Ilestablishinent hitherto, and three times as large as the peace esta blishment immediately after the American war. It was, he said, perfectly absurd to keep up the present enormous staff; it gave no strength to the army, whilst it greatly increased the public expen diture. Adverting to items of saving, so necessary at this period, he did not, he maid, see any reason tOr the present enlarged establishment of the Mili tary College; he thought that a saving might be made, particularly iu the reduction of the junior Winches of that establishment. In recommending the reductions in the army, he did so, he raid, with considerable pain; it could not be without pain that he could propose to take from those brave officers one half of the pittance which they so well, so dearly. and so valiantly earned; to many of them he had the honour of being kiiowu. and no• thing but the imperative sense of public duty could induce him to make the proposal. When he looked at the state of the country, the extent of the public distress, and of public misfortune—when he saw Petitions every day coining to that House from the agriculturalists, praying for relief. and Petitions fruin the manufacturers, praying for legislative protection, to save themselves and their families from starving—/Hear)—in such a me lancholy and calamitous situation, if he could but save 1,0001. to the nation, he felt that he would be tray his duty if he did not suggest the mode of saving it. This honest and painful sentiment would, he trusted. at once, justify hum in the face of the country and of the army. The Hon. Gen demon concluded by moving— " That, instead of the sum of 2,2211,7761. 11s. 2d. to be granted for the Land Forces in Great Britain, sad on the Stations abroad, excepting the regiments employed is the Fast Indies, from the 24th Deeember,lBls, in the 24th De. (ember, 1819, there be inserted the saw of 2,138,7781. 11s. Id. fur the said purposes." Lord PA ustsmefos said, lie hoped he should convince the House, that in the army every reduc tion had been made—that in the public expendi ture every possible saving had been made, as con nected with the army, consistently with its proper foiled aim, and consistently with that system, which, in event uf a war, would guard the country from bring involved iii difficulty, in confusion, and expense. The Hon. Gentleman, he said, over rated the present saving; and he under-rated the difficulties which, were his plan to be enforced, would follow in the recurrence to a state of war. In peace, there were two important considerations with respect to the army : tint, economy; secondly, 1 the best and easiest mode of augmenting the army iii case of war. He hoped that these principles were preserved in the present arrangement of the army ; though lie was not even sanguine enough to hope 1 that that arraimisetoeut, or any arrangement, could meet with unanimous approbation ; whilst the human mind remnants constituted es at present, on this subject particularly there will be different opinions entertained. The Honourable Gentle man, he said, proposed. as • practical reduc. thin, ii stun of 140,000/. That saving, the Ho nourable Gentleman said, would be effected by the reductiou of three regiments of cavalry and fifteen battalions of infantry. Now, after • minute calculation. he (Lord Palmerston) could only find that instead of 140,000/. there would be effected but 31,000/.—(Cries of hear, hear, fronts the Upposition.)—He c o uld go into an enumera tion of the iteine.—(Here the Noble Lord went into a detail of the saving that would accrue from putting officers on half-pay, clothing, said different other items of reduction.)—Against this saving of 31,0001, there would he bounty men fur the present year—if they were to increase the number of their battalions. they should pay bounty to the soldi rs. This bounty money would, for the present year, amount to a sum that would reduce the *eying to 13.9001.—f0r the present there would be a saving of 13,000/. and in fu t u re of 31,0001. This would be the utmost saving which could be made. Ile submitted to the House whether, for this saving, it would be worth while to incur all the difficulties and inconvenience which must necessa. rily follow in the event of a recurrence to war— difficulty and inconvenience that at such a moment would be severely felt, even omitting the question of expend... That expense was, however. a serious consideration ; in the event of a war, by the present system, the savisig to the nation would not be legs than a sum of 300,0001. He did not think the House would entertain the proposition of the Hon. Gentlemun when they considered the present state of the army ; the wisdom and necessity of avoiding any future inconvenience, and the great saving thug would accrue in case the country was unfortunately forced into • state of war. As to she observations cf the Honourable Baronet (Sir Henry Parnell) respecting public others, he (Lord Palmerston) had in answer to my, that these oilers were su their nature totally sod entirely distinct—that they wife not only distinct but different, and that one was a check upon the other. It would be utterly intim. ',strut fur the same head to govern all, beams une was a check ens the other. It would surely he isicousistent. that the same officer should furnish and audit his own accounts. A. to the Military College, the vtaff of that Col lege was not mete than iireematy. It was essesittal to the disciphoe of that Institution that some per. son should beat its head of professional distinction. If the limitation were to be kept sup et all, some distinguished potion, such as Sir Alexander Hope, I, was necessary, whose professional tektite and high character was necessary to keep thee College in a proper state of subordination. As to the alluoiou that lied been made to the state of the military expenditure after the American war. it shield he iecollected that the pay of the soldier is double snore at the present day titan it wits at that time— d should also be recollected, that our paemasioas once that period had greatly increased.-since that period our peetessious its India increased— since tlud period we osculated Malta, the helms Islands, Ceylon, mid ilium*s other plaices. Whets the extent of our increased dominions, and the in. 4 creased pay of the a-my, was considered—when the House also recent-cued. that in the calculation of the Right Non. Gentlenieu the army in Ireland was iiiit included, they would nut find an . great a dis proportion Isetaceii the relative state iif the army now, and the state of the lastly at the cuuclusion of the American war. Sir HENRY PARNELL V 104115.11. Cuifittel DAMES rose. lie commenced as if to reply to the speech of Lord Pelmerson, but the cry of " spoke! spoke !^ obliged him to sit dowu. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, that the ergum f the Noble Lord principally rested on Ono, II a the event of a war inconvenience might art . He could understand this reasoning, if tlre military peace establishment was small; but he could nut understand it now, when that establishment was so very largo—when there was 25 regiment. of cavalry, and 91 regiments of infantry, es a peace establish ment. Year after year objections were made, he said, in that House alpinist a standing army. Ile did not hear any reason why the establishment should not be on the same footing that the army was placed by Mr. Pitt in 1793. Arguments against the increase of standing armies had been often forcibly and do quently urged, hut had been never answered iu that House. Year after year those objections had been urged—year after year they had been told, that no further alteration could be made; yet Ministers did, notwithstanding. reduce the army, and be had no doubt but that the Noble Lord would be found pressed by the country and by tiaancial duo tress to say, th it Obeli Minister. had fixed this army as permanent, they were mistaken in their calcula tion, and tipsta further reduction might he allow.. ed.—(lJere Aire was a loud cry of " Question ! Question !" /Am the Ministerial side of the House.) --Mr. Grant resumed—Yes; it is a question—a question of vital impostence—a question *Going the liberties and the properties of the people. If, said he, there be a man in this House who thinks otherwise ; if there be a mini in this House who, at a period of national distress, feels nothing for the money of the people; if there be a man who feels no anxiety fur the liberties of his country, and who will vote for a standing army, the natural and the worst enemy of that liberty, let him vote with the Minister, and then let him return to his constituents and hear their expressions of disgust and disapprobation ; for his own part, he would, he said, year after year, oppose every grant that might go to the support of a standing army. Mr. GOULBURN dwelt at considerable length on the arguments urged by Lord Palmerston on the increase of our foreign possessions, and the in crease of the pay of soldiers. He complained that the last speaker indulged in declamation, without entering into particular details. Colonel DAVIES made some observations similar to those he had already made. Lord PALMERSTON said, the statement hr had made was, that by the plan he acted on, 32,000 men would be kept in readiness to take the field, should a new war unfortunately break out; the only additional expense necessary to be imposed on the country nn such an event, being the pay of the privates, and that of one Lieutenant to each troop and company, which would make a saving to the country of about 300,000/. annually. Col. Danes said, that on the same principle the plan he proposed would keep tip 26,000 men. The Resolution was then put and agreed to. The next Resolution was read, and, after some observations from Lord PALMERSTON, agreed to. On the Resolution for granting • sum of 118,021/. Is. ad. to his Majesty, to defray the expenses of the Staff of Great Britain, being put— Mr. Hume said, that in rising to object to the Resolution, he was desirous of bringing to the re collection of the House the recommendation of the Committee of 1817—that Committee had re. commenced that the expense of the Staff should be diminished. The reason alleged for the great advance in this charge, was the increase of our foreign dependencies, and a sum of 21,1041. was comprised in this grant on account of the Staff of Ceylon, the Cope of Good Hope. the Maurititi., Malta, and the lonian Islands. Now, perhaps, the House was not aware that out of the first four of these Colonies, the coontry, or the Crown, derived • revenue of a million and a half sterling, or at least twelve hundred thousand pounds. This informs lion was derived from an official document in his hand. The Committee of 1817 were of opinion that the Colouies should be called upon to pay the expenses of their military establishments, though they added, that they were not in possession of in formation to enable them to give a decided opinion on that point. The other night, when the Resold twins were proposed in the Committee, a question had been asked by an Hon. Friend of his, a Gen tleman opposite, how far these Colonies were able to bear the charge of their own defence, and he hoped enough would now be communicated to sa tisfy the House of the reasonableness of the charge. He begged it to be understood, that the whole of the 1,200,000/. derived from the Colonies lie had mentioned, was at the disposal of the Crown, or the Ministers of the Crown. He had always understood that this House felt a jealousy at any money bring vested in the hands of the Mi nisters without coming under the cognisance of Parliament. But this revenue answered purposes useful to Ministers. If they had dependants for whom they were 'triable to provide at home, they might stud them out tootle of these Colonies, where the Governor would find them a place, nay, he had been told, bad sometimes granted them pension.. The Hon. Gentleman then moved as au amendment, That instead of 118,021/. Is. 3d. in the Resolu tiori. should be inserted the sum of 96,9161. 9s. 2d. being the difference between the former sum and the charge proposed for the Colonies. Mr. GOULIURN said, thequestiou had not merely a reference to the vote proposed, it went touch farther, it went to the propriety of retaining the power assumed by this country to restrict and turn to her own benefit the trade of her Colonies, on ups dertaking their defence from external furs; when. ever that question was brought fully before the House. he should be prepared to demonstrate the wisdom of the system we pursued. But there ass another material charge, a charge against Ministers of unsapproprienug the revenue of the loniait Island.. (Jeer these funds, however, his Majesty's Ministers had no more control than over these of any indepeudent State. From paper. on the table, it would he seen, that when these Coln. toes were placed under the protection of this couo- -d try. -it was 10111131:11ted. that the Armorial ,. of their revenues should be left to thecaselve.. he (onion Islands had brAs reduced to great diificul ties by the reiterated vicissitudes and epithelia's they hail suffereil ; hut he could take upon himself to say, that the finst debt. to the discharge of which they would attend, was the demand of this for the military establishment required for their protection. It could not be expected that he should go into tlw other various questions which the • Honourable Gentleman had introduced, on the inertly general knowledge hr iime. e ssed of them. however, was more Inreigii from the tii teisti•iii of the Noble Lord at the head of the Co. lonia! Department, or his own, then to keep the country in ignorance of any of the modes of Go vernment adopted in the Colonies; because he was convinced that the snore it was searched into, and the more it was known, the more it would be sp. proved of. The Colonies had always had their military force kept up at the expense of this coon try ; and he thought the House would not rashly depart from the principle, at least till papers were before it, 'hewing the revenue of these States more accurately than it was now known. Sir JAMES NIACILINITOSH said, that if he under stood the objection of his Hon. Friend, it was, that there was already a surplus revenue from tlicse Co. bones, adequate to the purposes to which the vote was to be applied, without the imposition of any new burden. If that assertion were true, it wawa strong as could be made out for the interpoai tinn of the House, the question was important not only in a financial, but a constitutional point of view. If there really was a large sum of money proceediog from these depfndencies left at the disposal of the Ministers of the Crown, if there was a large extra parliamentary revenue, it was the duty of the House to institute inquiry into a matter that involved the first principles of the Constitution. If Ministers desired that the Resolution should pass, they were bound to shrew that the revenue of these possessions was unequal to defray the charge. Very shortly sifter the con quests of Gibraltar and M res. the House insti tuted an investigution into the income arising Drum these places, and caused the surplus to be applied to the public service. Mr.Guut.suutt and Mr. HUMS mutually ex plained. Alter a few words from Mr. F. DOUGLAS and Sir W. DE CRESPIGNY, the amendment was nega tived, and the original question carried. On the Resolution being read for granting a sum not exceeding 21,635/. Is. I Id. for medicines, surgical materials, and hospital contingencies for Great Britain. Mr. J. P. GRANT said, he had already moved for papers to 'hew the charge of the Ophthalmic Establishment included in the estimate read—it was not his intention to oppose the Resolution on the present occasion, but it was his intention to-morrow to move for papers distinctly describing the expen►es of it.—The remaining Resolutions were then read and agreed to. BARNSTAPLE. Lord CLIVE moved the Older of the Day for the second reading of the Barnstaple- Bribery Bill. The question havingjeen put, Mr. BERNAL rose to oppose the motion. There were but three cases iu which Parliament had thought proper to pass similar Bills—the cases of New Shoreham, Cricklade, and Aylesbury. The Hon. Gentleman then entered into • detailed state ment of the nialiaractices which had previously pre• wailed in each of these boroughs,_ and argued that the evidence given before the Committee in the present instance did not justify the House's inter fering in such a strong and summary manner. It was unnecessary to remind Members that it was one of the most ancient boroughs iii the kingdom—it had received its charter in the time of Henry I. and sent Members to Parliament in the reign of Edw. I. A great part of the electors seemed not to hive been infected with the corrupt practices of which some of them had been proved guilty, and he thought there was a strong call tan the justice of the House not to deprive the whole body of their an cient privileges and birth-right. On the *hove grounds, but principally that of the want of suffi cient evidence, he moved, as an amendment, " That the Bill be read a second time this day six months." It was seconded by a Member whose name we were unable to learn. The question having been put on the amendment, M►. N. CALVERT spoke in support of the mea sure ; he thought the Bill only put the electors in a situation in which they had less power to injure the Constitution and yell their own rights. Mr. BENNETT supported the original motion, and defended the decision of the Committee, of which he had been a member. If the witnesses had gone one step further, the Committee would have declared Mr. Ornmanney also not to have been duly elected. They had found bribery to have been the common system of the borough; one of the electors examined, said he received a bribe seven times. In fact, there was not on election at which every elector, beneath the rank of a G-ntle. mail, did not receive a bribe. At this moment the voters put off making any promise. saying, they wished to wait till some turtle came down, refer. nng, lie supposed, to an expected wealthy candi date From the City.—(Langiater.f Sir it. WiLson said. he hoped he should not be considered as acting inconsistently when he stated that he would give his decided opposition to the amendment; but that when the Bill came to a Continence, he should move that the Borough be altogether diafronclused, said the right of voting transferred to some of the lunge uurepre,tiiirn towns. Mr. BARHAM thought that one uniform rule should be laid down for the guidance of the Hume to parsing Bills like that before the House—snit that rule should be the guilt of the majority of the electors. He impressed strongly on the House the necessity of every Gentleman txamining the came mitult►ly, and coming to a rational decision n► his own mind before he voted, in order that the electors who were affected by the measure, and the public at large, might be ati•tird with respect to the ground on which he proceeded. Mr. BATHURST said, the que►tion here was, whe ther they had evidence enough to act oil or not ? A ease might arise, where guilt could be affixed to particular person', but not to a great number.— sud yet those who examined the Emil' might be convinced that moral guilt attached to ull the par- S r•-p...... _.•Y•........ , ties concerned. find they, in such a tiSibit s a riglit to 'emceed to the, adoption of mermen" et prrerro. lion P It via', dear they il El. Mr: Griblde said, that this presetic.• had not existed for more gw, ripr or Ave elections—and that sum. of mo o . having been given to the electors, in threw inetaner:, they would naturally look for it in oth e rs. N„,, although this circumstance could not b.. p ,„,,, 1 with respect to more than A, 8, or tip. h u doubt could he entertained of 'h • ge nern it% •'.-A which prevailed. Unless, then, something w.,. :k m . with iferetiet to the overthrest of the My Sltlll o.gli, he be little good coulefllk attained 1,.. „,e,„, cutilig needy individual., who, ii they could , p, i . in their purse must pay se e this persons. I lic. that, where a body of electo rs a ct e d upon t cot-- rupt system which seemed to mat in this h orsug h f —a systein which rendered it impossible for as election to be carried on fairly—if they did not e ,,.. tirely forfeit their franchises, they reheard, i u , great degree, their right to them, end, unifier thes e circumstances, that right ought to be extruded is others. It appeared, from the evidence, that/ . was the sum drinmilett for bringing u vot er . hustings, which wee put down under the heart os travelling expenses ; and this, together wilt s ct; ,,• circeemstancts, having been proved before the (:,, ti miner, lie conceived a sufficient case *a. lustle out to authorise the. House to act as it had dust-. Mr. BARHAM and Mr. BATHIAIeT revcr4ity ex. plainer!. Sir J. NIWPORT reakin extract lento the erns deuce before the Comm ie, to chew, that the Bribery Oath was not tendered at the election to env of the voters. This, coupled with the stat e s meld, that at several elections sums it money had beets given to the electors for their votes, shelved that • regular system of corruption, shit is called for the intervention of the house, was co , i.nently acted on. Therefore he should vote tor di, Kit. Mr. BERNAL mod. it apne..reil tie, loi.t election. the bribery oath hid be. ii .01mi...,- tered to Mr. Cann', One of the el-ctors. Sir J. NEWPORT riot!, he drew his informattou from the documeists before the House. Mr. R. MARTIN opposed the Bill, because he thought it was contrary to the essence of justic e 1 ,, punish the iiiiiocent as well as the guilty—mid this measure would evidently have that oprriitioo, tome it would affect even the children of those woo moo had • right to vote. fie should pro . tose, that, 111 future, it should be mandatary ou the ieturtiii., 4 officer to administer the bribery oath, which probably, have the effect of repressing the systeui of offering sod receiving bribes. With treitect to the proposition for extending the right of t ming is the freeholders of the hundred, lie c,:ohl see meritorious el: which the hundred could put forth, 141 order to justify their receiving such 40 im portant boon. Lord MILTON said, that individuals who peti tioned the House to correct un election worn we , e not generally guided by a desire of securing Itinoy of election, but merely wished to unseat the slitiog Members, and, if possible, to seat themselves. lit doing this it was necessary to prove, that, if the tier son petitioned ugaitiet bad not made use of bribery, the petitioner would have been elected. lo these cases, he believed, those who petitioned were vt ry rarely altogether free from blame themselves. It was said in the present instance, thit a great injury would be inflicted on the electors of Barnstaple the freeholders of the neighbouring hundred were admitted to vote. He could not see this. The *fictive franchise was as valuable to the electors of Wettniiiister, who were most numerous, as to th e electors of Grompound, or any other place. It was, in fact, of rquJl value in every city, town, or borough, where it was properly made use of—where it was exercised, as it ought to be. not for the pur poses of profit or of lucre, hut in order to return proper representatives to Parliament.— (I fear, hear.) —lie was, therefore, in favour of measures similar to that now before the House, which went to cor rect it great evil, and he was sorry that opportu tittles were not more frequently afforded to correct such sbuses.—(" Hear, hear," sad laughler.l— What he said. he had said advisedly. They all knew that unity cases of this nature did occur—hut they also kites., that they were very gcnera!ly con cealed from the House.—(Hear. hear.)—He wish ed, however. that the same course was nut adoptcil on all occasions of this kind. Instead of only the freeholders of the hundred to the right toe voting, he conceived it would be well if the cow holder, 'and the respectable householder. who were scattered through the hundred, were presented with the same privilege.—(!!tor, hear.) Ald. WAITIIMAN !aid, the seintinents lie enter tained on this subject were so perfectly expressed by the Noble Lord who hail just sat dowe, that be dud not deem it necessary to ilespaos o,i tl;e fur many minutes.—(Coughing,und utter ma 41 I! impalienee.)—lf he ruse, at any tour, to 'tithe,. the House unnecessarily—if he introduced irrtgo;.r matter—or travelled beyond We just bounds of de bate, he would be the first man to acktiowleil4e his error, and he would feel heartily ashamed . I himself. But when lie saw, for some reason .1 other; a disposition manifested in a particular quar ter of that House to put him dowu on every ocea ,ion, he must say, that he could not compromise his own rights, as a Member of Porlittment, and much less could he compromise the rights of those whom he represented, by brioltog Iterate such an interruption.--(Hear, hear, Leers j-- Some time since he heard the Speaker, wit; cuter delight, at the bar of the House o' Lod-. claiming for the Commons of the Unites: unfettered liberty of speech. What Illicit, • speech hod they, if, in delivering their seitlitit-los on a citiesitou intimately connected with ti.t. of the electors of the British empire, he. or Nov other Gent cum, was to be put down, not by or guinea, bet by clamour ?—(Hear.)—He, there fore, woult throw himself on a quarter, where he wai sure ofreceiving protection—he placed himself.. as he had right to do, under the protection of the Cliairruso.—(Hear, lour.)—Having thus far digressed, le would now speak to the question. He wasa derided advocate fur reform—but he never had, in his thole life, however he might have been misunderstord, uttered • sentiment favourable to those wild doctrines which he knew were unpopular amongst tln greet majority of that House. fie never spoke in [amour of Universal Suffrage and Ammo! Parhisnents--bat he did not blouse those who held tech seuttments. They, of course. *opposed their rumple correct—aud they hod It