The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-05-19 00:00:00

w h en , b y t he f..; m* of the Houle, he would- i have an opportunity of aliswering. Mr. PONSONDT appealed to the noise-whether, ! in quntiug the opioion of Lord Chief-Justice Wil mot, he had not expressly stated, that it was • judginciemehieli had never been delieered.-(lleisc, hear.)—He did not state it us • judicial autno ray, but as an opinion, which might very justly claim same weight with them. his be would ac . kilowleilge was the first time that he lied heard the *perch of 11113 . Member quoted iu support of any measure. The Committee should have reported facts, it should have considered what ought to be done in Parliatut lit, not what was s lid by any Mein. her in it. Ile could assure the Hon. Gent. that if he was to wake coy alteration in the speech to which he- was an good as to allude, it would be in that put which referred to the 'invoice of the Cwt. below ; the qiie,tion should be decided by the law of Pailiatairot alone; and if the analogies to which he hail drawn their attention should impress tiii-in with a notice thst it was ouly by aualogy their p ..ileges could be oupiourted, he would consider it speech as the ino.t unfortunate ettort he had t.er sunde.—(Hear, hear.) Sir T. Tuarms disapproved of every thing that was dime, from bC;4111111114 to laugh;)— awl declared his intention, wheoever the question tame before the House, to oppose the reception of such a Report. The question was then put, opals re-committing `the Report to the same Committee, and carried without a division. Mr. HcassaT wished to know whether the Right Han. Gent. opposite (Mr. Grattan) intruded to submit his motion relative to the Catholic Petition that night ? He submitted whether it would be &- big justice to the cause to bring it forward at such an hour? Mr. GRATTAN said, that if they hail not time to come to a decisiou that night, they might adjourn it to aisother day. At present, if he was to resolve upon postponing it, he did not see that there was any open day upon which he could fix. LORD CASTLEREAGH. Lord CASTLtaIIAOII begged leave to ask Of, the Noble Lord on the other aide (Lord A. HeusiWm) to what situation he was to stand. under his intended motion, and whither it would be proper that he should retire from the House, before it was brought forward ? Lord A. ll ism toe had no heitatiou to say. that his morose ova. not connected with the Noble Lined. filis only oliject was, to expunge a resolu tion front the Journals. which he thought their roasiotoey and character required to be obli terated. Ills had sued, on first giving notice of his olotsou, that it was not his intention to revive the original question. To that inteurion he still adhered. The ground upon which he should move the expunging of the resolution. was the manifest tocomosteticy which it established against the Hoose.--(flere. at Lis Lordship's request, the Re. solutiiic of 179, owl that of the 85th of April, were read bv the Clerk.)—ths Lordship proceeded to observe. that there was a manifest contradiction hassestil the two. tior asserted, that every attempt to traffic for seats in That House should be resisted and pouisbed ; while the other Meted, that it was Dot aece.ssry to punish such an attempt, se it was sot conned into execatiois. Upou this palpable toutrardietion was greunded the most of these slosaive and insolent reiwirks with which the peti tions preseoted of late abounded, and tt was from a desire to smote so strong a countenance for such animadversions, that he brought forward the pre. Saul motion. Ile was chiefly instrioneutal in bringing the question before the Ileum, originally, to therefore most naturally fell the task of re ano,ing, s/he could preyed upon the House to do so, the censer! nence that had folhieed from it. It would ask, in what conOsted the true honour of th e 11.1,5., and w. at was it that composed the Ito of Parltabew ? He apsralseu.fed. they were to look to 11w Journals for them. Whet au appear. soca would it have, thettforoi if any person. ruoring to the Jeternali, ups 11. is irmeasine. should find two resolutiota, so itrad:ctotg of etch other. What • solution trotld this he of the honour Of the !loose sod • law of Parliameot. He was i n . Swotted by iso other motive in coming for ward as lie did, this night. than a ei.h to do his duty, and viudiente the charaetee o f th e novae. by reconciling its len4osige with its practice. He befitted that the list Simon of Parliament pretested a sew era in the history of debate.— Newer moil then was it avowed tint places were imagist and sold—carer until then was it sckuoa. hedged that they were disgrace I by eta praeice of a treat. which they had them 'hos condemned. It became them now to cool:der bow far their own cctshiet had or had not iii.tified the cen%oreso loch were stbsequeotly east upon tISC:TI. plain questioti for their decision was. whether hods those kesolu:ii.is should stand togeber? The only nos gument rein which it'could be meat:tined, if an argument it could be called. was. that the one to t ahoy neutralised avid anoolled the other. It wciod be for the House to decide how far such rei-•.iii could emaribote to the restoration of the rharacttr wheel it hell lest. It was, no rl in their recalleetieu that; after this be iii as, a Bill was brought in to prevent the aisle of wit.. The debars, se well as the Bill itmlf, p:..eredra upon an arkialluta--gtarat that seals ....re sold. Since thct perms/the (*erecter of Pat ti -tient • was att.ieleJ in a manner net easily W elled. Petituris 'odors , ' • language net rail! I.or•se, but not easel refuted. Most of theist id. lioled to this recorded fact, and it sat to save them f con the diagnie , and shame of seen allusion, that he proposed it be expunged. If they meant so it down as the law of that tech trafliek might be adopted wills i,np inns, there was on mite in his resolution. But if the r.-sotution of 1717 were true. if It beeisioe Podia tarot to resent nil such unconstitutional a•te•nots, eien less his nee ian pro,wt to be adopted. Th.. beet If ssa firlittir4 lei Lord Castlerragn. awl the first propostbois of II a tb.j..sty . .4 after 9111‘,1 all Meat, that the Ilium" shoul .i 4.1.4 tothe -other Orders '•- ILlidq. Finding their .fltir:,re out sufficiirat t • .trey t h is, they were oblige , ; in cliindon it. amid lIV feslait was the revolution snot whirl, tie tow Caelatilatord. They weer foal of olloiltu a r to the irooduct of their ancestors, but hr could not see why they %broad nut thrum:eke- 113 a, .pant enough 1w mist such ptoceedins. N bile this rtuallatted upon the hum& of the Mese of Commons, he did not think that any petition for redress of grievances. or for. reform, or for any other purpose, wou d he presented, without same in sinuation against a transaction so derogatory to their character. He begged to re.. 111 to the minds of the Right Hou. Gentlemeti opposite, what had been their conduct in other eases, not more flagrant. He alluded to the cases of Mr. Alexander Davison, and the Freeholders of Hampshire. Oa what ground could they reconcile this difference of conduct, for the same fault, when practised by others and when practised by one of themselves. It was not long ago sauce a preposition was submitted to that House.. upon the conduct of a Privy Counsellor, Lord Chatham ; when this matter was investigating, the Right Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Canning) airtithe Noble Lord (Ceatle resgh) regretted the votes which they felt them. selves bound to give; they completely acqiiitted him of any intentional misconduct; notwithstand ing which they felt themselves bound to vote for a eriminatory proceeding against him. It was true, they were opt of office at that period, a circum stance which makes great difference in Gentlemen's t opinions iu the estimate of right and wrong. Lie entreated the House to recollect the situation in which they were how placed In respect to petitions. He did not apprehend it was possible for any one to bay that this resolution was consistent with the conduct which they ought to profess or to pursue. It left it in the puwer of ill disposed persons to ex claim against the Inconsistency of the Hone. What lie complained of chiefly was, that, while it stood, they pore excluded from the possibility of defend. ing e theinselves. He thought the only wise course they could pursue was, to expunge the whole of their proceedings. He moved, accordingly, That they should be expunged." Lord CAIITLESIAGH begged leave to trouble the House, in this early stage of the business, with a few observations. It did not become him to state what the House ought to have done, hoe far it had acted properly in the instance alluded to, or how far otherwise. He could not help observing. how ever, that though the motion of the Noble Lord did not accuse them of having some to a wrong deci sion, the whole tendency of his argument was to thew, that it was unjust. The Noble Lord had argued as if the House should act only Miuisterially under the resolution; as if it was bound, without ex ceptiou. to punish such attempts, and was preclud ed from all observation of the circumstances of the case. It the object of the Noble Lord was barely to preserve consistency. he should have brought the Standing Order under the observation of the House, to see whether his interpretation was right or wrong; but the fact was, that such an interpret. anion would tie up the hands of Parliament, leave it no discretion, and force it to decide, io many instances. contrary to its own judginent, and to the particular circumstances of the ease, The motion. as it was now proposed, went to question the propriety of the former Oct-nista ; and though it did nob directly implicate hint (Lord Castlereagh), yet it implicated him by in.inoation. which was more painful alai more unjust.. The House had already voted with r es p ec t so him, that. under all the circumstances of the ease. they should proceed to rio eriminatory moo. lotion, and this vete had been stigmatised as un just. He could not thank the Noble Lord for the course he had takes) with respect to him, and would rather have suffered the direct censure of the House. than be exposed to the cruel situation of havin the proceedings expunged. an act which would expose him to the worst interpretations of the most corrupt minds. Lon' remits Toss contended, there had been no ash inpt to impesch the character of the Noble Lord, either directly or indirectly. The motion made by his Noble Friend hail nu such tendency, and was aide from motives. and for objects, of a contrary maitre. His conduct sowed from the course of events. Had not addresses bees presented to that House. which imme.liately rellacted spoon 4,4 own proceedings? and by them it was very evi dent whist was the f.-cling out of doors upon the subject. It was well known what had been the conduct of that Noble Lord ; and, when brought under the consideration of the House, what had hewn their vote on the occasion ? That vote, with its revolutions. was recorded on their Journals. acd his Noble Friend came aowo, not for the purpose of saying any thing in charge, against the Noble Lord, but for the purpose of hav ing those remilutions expunged from their Jour nals so that they might be freed from the ac cusation of isicousonency, and that the petitioners alight unit poises, au opport ty of acing such hard thing* against the House ..f Commons. No one could rreson.ibly find fault with Ins Noble Frien I tot hying desirous to get rid of a resolution injurious to the character and dignity of the House; and he did nut see how any person could oppose lion the ground of its being • charge against the N•blitord opposite. It was oa these grounds he should gise his rote iu favour of the motion. Mr. Weals said, that his Nelda Friend (Lord FoThstone; had given it as his opinion, thst the motion b-fo-e the House could not be considered as • charge against the Noi,le Lord (Castlere.sgh) : but he was surprised hoe his two Noble Friends coistil eateetain a contrary °pillion. He did not perceent how the nous.- could ronsistent:y surer to the present motion. %I'ith respect to the Ilemolu tMo recorded oil their Journals, it must always tie recisHecte.l. that • serious charge had been preen ousle mole against the Noble Lord, and, eller mo s. I UK Call sideration. the House caiae distinctly to the itePaltiti•ne.— Meer, leer.) Therefore, tak ing into consideration the manlier In which the question had been entertained, and the vote which hail been finally given. it would he • breach of roinnteocy w espunge it, at this time. front their Joitruals. indeed, such was his opinion of the pre sent motion. that hod any other person brought it forward, with whose sentiments he was Not so well acquainted, he should have suspected that it pro ete.lrd from a ((ewe to flatter the (echoes of certain inli‘iduals, and frren an attempt to catch at po pulatity.--(//ear, hear. hear. I—Really.1—Really. under show e i rremeeiance ., h e m i g ht hare beef, 194101 CM suppose,ti that it was wade for the purpose of enotiteineneioz those doctrines out of doors, which were hostile to the t7ototitution. The lion. Mais. bow concluded by eonsmenting upon the entsireres el' shark is, this indirect way against the Noble • Leeds mud by going his oppeaitio* to the elution if Mk Noble Fri end . Mr. Oar, would not trouble the House who Many words en the subject uoder their -consideration.— He was induced to support his Noble Friend's mo tion. on this ground. that it was• wade, not with any regard to the charge brought against the Noble I.ord, but his Noble Friend's inotiou was intended to free the House from one of the foulest blots which could possibly be east upon its dignity and diameter ; for if the Resolutions were tat ex punged, that accusation woulJ, •at all times' be Kahle to I.e stated against the House, by a reference to its Journals. _ _ Lord Atentimato HAMILTON cnuW not but res gret, that he should have hero accused by lUD Ho. nourahle Friend (Nlr. %Word) of charging the Noble Lord, a second time. particularly a; - he had dis claimed every intention of that iseure, at th.• very time he made this 'proposition. Resides. his Hon. Friend ought to have cousid..red there were other parties to this subject than the. N.ible Lord—' he House of Coalitions was also a party to the Retook tions.—( /fear.) ft was therefore strange he could not bring forwerd a motion for the purpose of pre serving the I louse from inconsisteney, without its curring the iinputatiou of making a charge upon the Noble Lord. Ile would suainunii that his con duct universally in that House did not justify 611C11 an insinuation, lie had oh.° heard on the present occasion, thit the motive which actuated him to bringing forward his mistim. was that of eatdiiii4 popularity. The feeling out of doors bad beets al luded to by his Hon. Friend, and it had been Urged that he was attempting to conntenaace the doctrines which were entertained on the pro. ceilings of that House. But et the time he heard his Honourable Friend express those sentiments, he was almost in duced to conclude in his iniud, that his able Friend was making an effort at popularity within the House.—(/ tear. hear, kear, ikons both sides.) If the resolution were expunged from their Journals. he should be happy that he bud gained a very material point, namely, that he had preserved the House from any future charge of in consistency, and thereby had conduced to the sup port of their dignity. The ca , e of Wilkes had been justly referred to; and would any one say that the motion for expunging the Resolutions ou that occasion way worthy of being accused with sinister motives? lie had no doubt but a time would come, however the feeling* of the House just now might be contrary. when the resolution would be expunged. and no imputation of popularity would be brought against the motives of those who might make such a mottou. Ile lutist again declare he had no intention of having the Notate Lord tried twice for the same offence.— / TAe Noble Lord here was interrupted with.' Ques tion, question." Ile said he was nut surprised that some members, who were very hostile to the mo tion he hail proposed. should now express their disapprobation. But having a right to defend him self front the accusa•ions winch had been brought against him on this subject. he was surprised that he shou Id encou liter the present interruption. He had a duty to 'perform in that Heusi., and slaw' his mo tion might hurt the nice feelings of an individual, to whose conduct it alluded. rill - his ditty as a Mem ber of Parhoosisat was potstmoont to es, crop-id..... ation of delicacy which others might think was due to the Noble Lord. It was not from any motive of wounding the feelings of the iSiolAe Lord, but from one totally unconnected, he had subsumed to their consideration the present motion, and he had no disposition to attack the Noble Lord, now out of office ; but, he must observe, the Noble Lord's feelings were not so acute, when he composed a part of the Administration. - Mr. %YAM,. and Lord CaIITLUIS•GiI, said a few words iu explanation. The question was then put upon Lord A. Hmt stilton's motion. which was negatived without a di. CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION Mr. Osman commenced a must brilliant speech. by regretting. that he should have to enter On the subject at so late an hour of the night. He lamented that there should have been manifested a disposition to get the start of him. Whatever others might think, it was a subject, which. to him. appeared to be of vital consequence to the cotton-ye it went, in his opinion. to the entirety of the empire. It was a subject imporant to him in another point of view—it was one which involved the question of the enfranchisement of • considerable portion of hie own countrymen. If he should live to sec the object of the petition fully oompleteil. he should consider himself a mast fortunate man. He should %lieu have to contemplate two advantages, both of which vieredear to his heart : the advantage of saw MA his fellow-subjects. his Catholic brethren. in Ireland. put upon an equality with their fellow citizens; and the aileasitsee of Ira. ing the conso lodation of the empire founded on liberty and law. He had taken an opportunity. when he had given notice of r.is motion, of stating the ground upon which he meant to rest that he meant to rest it upon the eztension of British prisilege, and the en clusien of foreign nomination ; then he stated his ground as broad as po•stble. He wished to state a principle. isiseparable from the considera tion of rhis *abject. and to induce the House to keep in their 'Muds the probability of an arraisgeine.it with the Catholics. He held that proposst.oo to tie one which it wit siecessary to the *ern-seem strength of the Empire to in dulge; and louvre ver persons might differ with respect to the questiou of the relo, he held it to be absolutely necessary that the Catholics of Ire land and the Protestants of England should ever entertain us their minds the probAblisty of an ar rangement. There were two grand principles upou which thus might lw scceservbeds the one was the eselusio u o f Foreign urainatiest, and the other was the commuisicatitea of Consti tutional Privileges. With respect to the brat. there were different mode% of mussing the object— One was by a real--the other by so shoelace law of ezelusion. He appealed to the casideotr of the House unlit, this subject; but he hod to state. that as ter as he was able to collect the strength of the Catholics, they were adverse to a real.-1119 own opinion was in favour of a own °piston was, that it would be better for the Protestants, and of nu injury to the Catholics, to have the We. He did not consider et as likely to produce soy un due or sanister interest among Csthote body. If he had, hehhoehl have opposed it. Ile did °1 ender it as' likely to prod uce any thine hutn.c4.l‘4. on foreign nomination. Hi s ides CR*. It ;7. 1 it should influence the Cath o li c Cler f,t hilt Cent the Bret/ 'Magistrate of th e country should g h a cheek on foreigeasominetion a n d in fl uence; thetefure, that as the Pope was the best 'od ee of the fitness of the Catholic, the first Magistrate of the country was the best jud ge o f t h e all sauce the subject. But be should d ece i ve the Hs u* o i f f he oas to say. that the Catholics were likely to ac cede to the principle of a tern. It followed, thth; as a matter of course, that some other mode should he adopted, in order to exclude.foreign ioflaence; mid that Mode was domestic nomination. By do. elastic nomination,. effectsog foreign influence, h e did est mean to say, fur he knew the Catholic reit. ;ion too well to attempt to say it, that the first ?do gertnite should have all the powers which essentially !belonged to the ambler Church. He did not thiat Imne'ireeellffia:;l7itviuoalipod bewerf.nelmieideuoli:l:7lohrtheelet:;:eb"sllllB. :IRri4l power; .but if the Pope should hecouie a oci. ject France, and if the time should come when the Pope should be a Frenchman. Or rather ii btu a Freon-Moats should be made Pi p e, then the pot er nomination would be in the person at the head of the Freticoi Government; and, conseeptentle, the power of notain.dion would be in oar natural enemy. tie would suppose that a French ante should be iu Ireland, and that the Catholic Rooters had here named by the French. What might le expected, if such were the case? Would it be any check against the diairger. that the laity were doe qualified, if the bishons were appoiteed by he enemy ? The disqueliticatitin of the laity, in " coo., so far front being a tiled( 'malted the duner; would be :in aggravation of it ; for there wool 4 two hostile principle* operating against the ens Aire—those to whom the privilege was extruded, and those from whom the ptivelege was le itlahe It was his wish to establish o ronstitutiothel u.i neetion between the Protestants and Catholics of this eloper.., and to prevent eu ecclesiastical now nection between the Catholic.% and the enemies of the country. He wished the House to consider what would •be the relative aituatioo of the too countries, if France appointed, throegh the Pope, the Catholic Bishops, and the laws of this cool try excluded the Catholics from any Office ia the star. There would be a political separation between the Catholics as leased sad tbe Protestants in Eup laud, and an eceletieetical cwolitetios litweta the Catholics in [relied end the Government cf Frame. • With a view to the liberty 5...1 the sift of the empire. it ems a wise of extreme dee,..ser.— 1 Ile wished the per* of England to say to the to timbre of Ireland--foilem you, faith—we do art itudepshind yore rebgiou. lint there is ROC creed winch we both tenderstand, and *Loch neither slut ought to dispense with: It is that creed since* teaahrs an eternal seporition mf both from French politics.—ctieeel dear! /tem !is...That oar the common religion the country ought to prote , •— tlatt was the teligiott sod faith the Catholics and Prote.taests ought to miners to o —oithest it n. , pro test would mite the Empires. safe. fis obbericd. that the lffielVeittenuitai had answered the propoo tome whiclefflid4sees pot to them. io.ests ef t• ••If p.sweirlro. lend of tire eilbele of 'b.., be.og 84471:tt d to a participetioa in the roileges eej.syed by theProttotentl::ot be(:Owlet:sin geserathsd ao awered slip pnitpositiou—the Catholics of Temperer), Kildere. and Derry. had con.itred—They had d 6. dared that they should consider any act of depose , Lion by the Pope RS a there nullity—they had dee dared that Pope, who was hot duly elected by the Cordiusls was a Pope. whom they world mot air knowledge. The principles which they recoijoi-ed went to the full extent of domestic itominatioo.— Tbigiid declared the Pope. whom they considered to be the only . lee they ought to acknooledge, to berm been oppressed, degraded. and plundered. by wets which they deemed ,equal to sacrilege ;they bad declared, thee the Emperor of France, by his conduct to the . Pope. had been euilty of sacrilege. If steel; was the case, the Collo. lies of Ireland could never hesitate one moturat to refuse. as the Heed of the Church, the man oho was nominated by the natural enemy of their men King, and whom they considered as having been guilty of sacrilege. Here then was not only a pobti rdheiChauttliaolircesligoifoulsreldaioffideufriotin, w ac h q ic i i i l iesei v" u 'u g lid int t n e Y r antninatioo. &redly or indirectly, made by Frato..e. The Catholics well knew. that the principle of do. mestic nomination did not go to affect the iiiter..t of the mother church ; that it did ;sot in any degree affect the Catholic religion ; and they knew it the more, because they bad agreed to it. • It sits Principle which, in 1799. they had agreed to. and if V es :l antainly they Dever would have done so. thought it had been one which less l.kely to be tn. jorioies to their religion. Au lion. Baronet, • 1 n isdeueled to aecoud iii% motion, ass well a pprised ,o that fact, and would doubtless speak to Reason Gotholies knew eetreseely lied th at they bed within thrinselyaa the nomination of the Ca thelt o h so nominationi ; s • i . th s i ro p s o — , b:hthec.tyn remain ly nul o i th t , e l e i . a i ti hr e l al i use was et the sontimente of the. Cathoho, was p Only by their answers to the propo-ioon. + o l lll ' to there'. as teats of these wincipi.e. but it era proved ttlhba u the s of the'the :bear 17. 1 9. 1 ' re that Predate who was at the h , religion, the Catholics of lyric that no reliiiion ought to ma! enemy of hue counts ; for if it would be 0.1 1 menn.;steamy—the land would be subject to to would be aohject to their subject to their Dotard enemy. luau which was unnatural the the ogle Name destroy the alter* , He had no manner of don thni was folliconsillered, the Cathie have no hesitation iu est iblisliin *anon; and he entreated the It the happy consequences whorls oath a conduct pn the part of thee In the tirstylies, the good eon•ef arise would he a - cnnerilerable stil happiness sad provenly of laud. Seensully.The advain.se franchiiiee to tae Imlay ; pug at l arge, the entirety of da l i r weanl be appal fonts lon' but, whe w poiste coasider as era Ifni. at the -•I bveu u 11116•Irl line (4' rotrin a. I. ,•• heat of the ( * nth ( ' ••• t 4c land wrte ta r " u ' l' t.a she a matt obt . 7 tar were other% we there a ha .Catiolics ire- iie t wo otuotero; th : % . t. natural Rag. r . This was a 1, 4 u o he uht r t ~t, when the gtttstt. t 4 two of , G ,„ Cathg,iics of Ire 1 . 4 41tion to the n' e, , at, 1114 111