The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-03-06 00:00:00

trultenWog the pr, sent senwation. I csanotbe sup. rived so soemic Irma a prejudiced disposition; for I 1111‘11341ft 1 11 , 111111* acqic.in.ance alert this Pitibie Lord, nor tin I 'rootlet( that I. ever had the honour of vittiog in iris company. But where is the ground• even f r that clamour which was raised 'gaunt his conduct, as the Cumnsander of the Expedition? Insteml of deservin g such amorous opprobrium, which war at that time so industriously conveyed through the whole kin sdoen. by every publiciournal and neespaper, be really merited the greatest praise for the discharge of his duty. For what could Lord Chatham do beyond that which he achieved ? He deserved the highest honour fur not attempting. at the head of a brave army, to accomplish that which in itself was impracticable. (Hear! hear!) Even Lord Wellington, of *boas he entertained the bight."' opinion, could not, he believed, have accomplished, nor would he have attempted, inure, if lie had commanded in the Expedition. (Hear! hear! and a laugh . frow the Opposition tide.) — Throe, Sir, are ray views upon the subject now ur eter the consideration of this House. The Noble men whose character is called in question, has cer tainly'some claim by his hereditary descent upon our attention, and for the same reason I think I poetess e full right to be heard as au advocate , in his cause. To think tightly en the omit*, we must advert to the hietury of the MK. Lord Chatham came before this Hattie fur the purpose of delivering. his testimony relative to the Expedition' to the Scheldt; and, instead of proceeding to the determination of that question, it lute been thought proper to stop the Inquiry, and commence an accu sation agaiust the author of the Narrative,which was required as • part of the evidence for our considers tied. Such is the conduct of gentlemen on the other sale of the House.—(Hear ! bear . 1 hear !y— -ip defending this Noble Lord's conduct, I know I have to contend against the suggestions of clamour mid 0. P. arguments.—( Hear ! hear! hear ! and lingbing.)—Such has been the conduct unrsiied, that, when the gentlemen opposite field they are divipir lilted iu the Inquiry, then they resort to so other mode of gratifyiog their spleen.—( Hear ! beer hear! and luvghiwe.)—The trausactiou Limited in Lord Chet haus, is brought forward as au episode in their remarkshle exhibition. These Gen tlemen have not evinced their iodination to study thee public ADM, but their sole object in view serous tis hate b-eii the removieg His Majesty's Ministers from their, stuatioae, for the purpose of filling the easne skeane.' vee.—(llear ! bear!) I will appeal to my Learued termini* un the opposite side it they ever knew a witness in soy cause stnpt while de livering his evidence. anti immediately charged ss * defendant. to answer fur a libel on any other of , lanes to be imputed to him from his own testi mony. Bet it in thus we VW dealing with Lord Ch. thaw, iutleed we are using him with greeter se tt-rite. The Hoe,e is first called upon to charge hire, fur his to :duct, unfit to hold any employment order Op Crown, and then we are required to proceed fur the purpose of is.vestigating the whole of his cow duet as t Mumander-in-Chief. There is another Point of view in which this subject ought to be iconsidrred—asininna.! Lord Chatham had not writ ten tin. narrative, but merely had eommenicattd beeklis M ejee por k er, by way of couvenntion, greed nip law or punt. iple of the Coastitution to - tleeta that communication an offence? Then in point of fact is th. re any enter' diffrieoce between the injurious consequences of the one, uud tl.ose of the other ? Sir, whets I reflect upon the times Which are past, *lsle Gentlemen on the opposite side bowel of their Cates and their Endows, I can not hut remember, at this paricolar time, the vir tues cal tsaiii.c. faint abilities of those orators whose eloquence is now consigned to silence. %Visit would those tongues, now mouldering in yonder w ive (pointing in the direction of \Vest ttt i tt titer Alibey,) say to the propriety of this qoestion being axitateil before or ? Shall out the ems of the Earl of Chatham:arid the brother of Mr. Pitt, have justice ailininistered to hi:n iii this House? I speak ', t rill he warmth ut f.elitig, because I remember myself:is a men, and l Leon/ hew to appreciate the anxious teilertie , s of a father. 1 have clii!dren of my emu, s o d I c an feel t o w I would have then treated by the wur!.!. When a wan is descended illustriously, let not the example of his father be quoted to its injury. I would place the life of the illustriously good before the view of their offeprieg, and by that excite them to tread *lw steps of %into,- and glory, or dissuade them from a coatitry course. But would not pull down stones from the monutueut . of the father to bruise the held of the sou. When we consider the situation cf the Noble Emil, the at teutiou *inch hod been extruded towards him on account of his descent, for in consequence his con duct was mote narrowly . looked into, and emu miued with • greater degree of mutiny. It was therefore natural for him, upon pereeiviug him self to stand in to coaepiciious • situation, mud out hearing the clamour which was noised, when the public expectation was disappointed. to entertain s wish to vindicate lams, If In the sight of the twit of Savereigto, who has. fur so long a time, filled the throne of these kingdoms. At the same time I esniint but think it extraordinary, that those who op;smie His Majesty's Ministers, seem to marshal every thing hi that way, whit b gives them the op pesrooce of the mast. rs of ceremonies. I must, Sir, re, eat, that these are resolutions so !neon si-tent wilt my sevitiiitrais of justice, that, as aii honest rim., I Mimed give them my cosicurrrioce or support. Coluedering these eircunistimers, I have only to conclude by snoring the previous question." Mr. liiiounii•si could assure the House I t wee no t hi. inteliiimi to detain them long in olrei Mg a few eiltsetvistime. to their ronahloration. lint he con entered hirvis•lf called upon by his learned friend, is the appeal which he had made to that side of the Howse, to in what statute or principle of law to ( midi,. t of Lord Chatham was lai.l down as all offence. linerVVT, iii the first place. he was tu t hoed to sac a few weirdo relative to some other !freemen's which his Learned Friend hart thought proper to introdesee; a good deal of which was ce• lately extroneone to the point, more immediately necli:r the e 'moderation of that House. It had Leen stet tl„ that respect was duet', the Noble Earl. en account of his deecetit, and certainly it was 1 ,..t Los wish. onlk , ng use of his Learned Friend's own word% that w the OM or the great Lord Chat. loon awl the hroth.r of Mr. Pitt" should not • have jisetice. He concurred with him that the charm tor of the Nubb: Earl had beet gravely teadticed by the public press of this country, but , in particular by that part of it under the influence of Hie Majesty's Ministers. There calumnies were encouraged is every direction ; but, whilst they were assiduously levelled at hischaracter, he treaded them with a becoming dignity. That they had now caused was very true, but he would not tres pass upon the time of the House by explaining the reason ; in short, the opprobrium was found to be lung to other doors. With respect to the question I immediately before them, it would be recollected that his Learned Friend bad admitted the con duct of Lord Chatham was unbecomiug and oh jectiouable. He would impress upon their minds, that much was due to the dignity of the House, for it had come before them, in the course of at tending to the evidence adduced on the inquiry, that Lord Chatham had laid this Narrative before Hie Majesty, requesting secrecy, and, at the same time, not communicating the information to his colleagues. He had also advised, that no steps might be token regarding the same. Now, this was the proceeding which imperiously called upon theta to discharge their duty. It was not the contents of that paper, but the manner and circumstances of its delivery to Hie Majesty, which called upon the House to pronounce its judgment. Much hail been alleged in favour of the Noble Earl, that he bad not infringed any part of the Constitution; but lie was persuaded that he should find no difficulty in 'hewing . that his conduct was inconsistent with several obv ious principles, which uo cosistitutional lawyer would venture to con tradict. %Vas it nut a principle of the Constitution, that His ,Majesty's advisers should meet together, aid there hold consultations for the gootiof the King ? —ln this coantry, was it not constitutional that the Kiug skool l have somebody to stand in a respon sible situation? And would his Learned Friend not acknowledge that the conduct of Lord Chat hem affected both these principles ? The family from wheice Lord Chatham spraug had been men tioned as a theme of prase, and much of oratorical encomium had been bestowed upon their departed virtues. In adverting to this subject, one particular impression was made upon his mind, for he furcibly remembered how much the great Leo d Chatham was extolled for his continual warfare thro'life against the secret MA uestce of the crown. In the latter part of ii•dit iced life. he was known to have said, what was rendered snore remarkable, by thinking of the pr•vent_ times. that there was a secret enflueme behind the throne. greater than the throne it self. That great man had exerted himst- If through a whole lite, to oppose any influence with the crown. and actually declared hit intention to relisequ'sh every part in the Councils of Him Majesty. when he found it was impossible to COMM teruct the evil. The mischief arising from the al lowance of that conduct attributed to Lord Chat ham, if prat:ll-et, by different counsellors of Hit Majestj, must he of gloat und injurious extent. Suppose one counsellor w ere to whist one thing and &sir, that such a communication should be kept a profound secret, and lie was succeeded by another, who wished to overturn the opinions and whim of a fernier. such a mode of proceeding would at all times be iojurious sod dangerous to the Constitu tion. The argument of the necessity •of going through the wind, evidence. before they fornied their opinion, (lid not apply to the case before them • became the secret advice given by Lord Chatham was complete and entire within itself. There was not any thing connected with the other part of the evidence to be adduced. They had oily to deter nine whether Lord Chatham , who hod acted in the way related by had nut infringed the principles of the Con stitution. Even Ministers themselves ought to be concerued on the preseutoccasion ; for if that trans action were allowable, they niiAlit be deemed an swerable for that advice which they never gave ; and also responsible for its consequences. In fair ness to those Ministers, he thought himself bound in duty to pronounce the opinion lie had done upon the present subject. When lie considered ell the circumstances of the trsusuction, and eaa 11l ill ed the resolutions. he wss convinced the charge, in the first pert. was fully made out against the Ell I of Chatham. Mr. BANRES said, it had occurred to him, in considering this subject. that they ought to pause before they couvicted Lord Chatham of a breach of the Constitution, and ought to see very clearly Li.l down, in what that breach consisted. What, in this instance, did the charge amount to? That the Noble Lord should have acted in concert with his colleugoes hi the Ministry—that they should consult among the inselves, and that a Cabinet coolederacy ass neeessary, before any advice was given to the Sovereign. This W 4, the doctrine lad down by the last speaker as constitutional; hilt he mit-t remind that Honourable Geode- Mao. that the eery name of a Cabinet Council was unknown to the Cons:itrition--(Aerre! hear!/ lle (Mr. 13rougham) would not Mid them reeog weed in any writer upon the Constitution.—They hail sprung up of u lute date, and were merely acknowledged for the public conveniency. Oa the motiou for the Address to His Majesty for the production or Lord Chatham's communications, he, as well as others, had supported the question, thinking that there was it prmiaus Narrative to the one produced ; and they could see no more reason for objecting to the call for the nr clout than for the first. The paper was now be fore them, and they were in pomioolon of every circumstance connected with it. What then ? were they to sac that one of llis Majesty's Privy C0nn...0-11ms, a Peer of the realm, suit a Cabinet Niiuister, was not to have access to his Staverrign ? What Lord Chatham had done might be an offence against his colleagues. hut was wine against the Constitution. Was It to lie asserted, that Lord Chatham, in these charac ter% and after his functions as General of the Army had ceased, was not to be allowed to go to His Majesty, and lay a statement of the pros ceedisiga of the army before him ?—This was 11111 cri,nr ; on the contrary, it was his duty to do so.—(Hear !I—No objection coald bs made to his having verbally made Inc communica tion, and yet his tasking it in writing, which made no real difference, was to be construed :sito offence. This was a constitutional doctrine he could not un derstand. With regard to the second delivered Na we, he conceived the Noble Emil might, with equal propriety, deliver it to his Soverrigm, of to the Secretary of State ; and although the first,with the desire of secrecy, Might be inkitious to hiqrls,l- leagues. it certainly was not , in any degree, tips rions to the Constitution. As for the request of se crecy, they had no Information to guide them to the motive final whence it pmeceded ; that they . 'night have drawn from the evidence, but the mistasonahle interruption which took place in their proceediugs.—(Allairling to Mr. Faller'e fraeae.)-- They had then to consider whether there was in the Narrative any attempt to prejudice the Ring against the naval Coiminander of the Expeditiot. If there had been such an attempt, it would have been a heinous moral crime; but though the Houourable Gentlest:au (Mr. Whitbread) had pressed it more than ho thought was right or just gable in his preliminary speech, lie bast abstained from making it any part of his iuotion. How their would it appear in their Journal.? That Lord Chatham, for the bare fact of delivering a Not ra the to his Royal Muster, was guilty of a gross breach of the Constitution. (Hear! hear!) No , thing was more dangerous than to charge men with crimes that were indistinct and utairtiated. This he conceived to he the cue in the preseut in stance, end it was nut because the Nellie Earl was the brother of him who was his best friend. and the beat friend of his country, that he re fused to stigmatize him for a crime against too law or part of the Constitution. Ile would defend the meanest subject from a similar charge. The Constitution was a large book, and every man hail his own reading of it.—lt was in the decision of the present question, in the hands of the majority of that House, and he trembled for thtir Much had been said of the influence of the Crown, but the arbitrary or espy iciouedecietons of the House of Commons were in his opinion much more dange rous than any influence the Crown could ever attain. (Hear! hear!) Ministers were responsible for all advice which was alined into action ; but if there were no act, there could be nothinq to wanted the interference of Parliament. The Constitution con sisted in guarding against whatever was wrong, or they would wish to prevent But here prevention was impossible, for they could not prevent advice being given. It was therefore not unconstitutional. Since his earliest political life, he had heard much of secret influence. It was long a prevalent popular' opinion, to which et length Lord Chatham (Wil liam) had given the stamp of his authority, and rendered it current. But he bad heard it from others, whose melons of information and authority he could not diabelivve, that no such thing existed ; a n d he theref o r e diii•reilited the assertion. Ile would any again, that the Constitution afforded no remedy against the twitter now brought under their consideration. Ministers were responsible for every let of His Majesty, a hether it proceeded from him self, from secret advisers, or from their own counsels; but they were answerable for nothing more. If then, there could be any base enough to act under the in fluenre, and become r. !anvil& teethe suggestions of others; the constitution could only pettish theta Ministers. but had no power over the secret ad visers. If wrong was done. they might address His Majesty •to remove, His Ministers; but they could out address him Ilk the removal of any other. With them views, boo wield we nothing unconsti tutional is the conduct destribed in the first resolotioo ; and unless the offeace was clearly. made out, he who dared to give his vete in favour of the, seeond, must do it on his own heavy responsibility. This was his opinion, after most maturely weighing and cousidering the ques tion, with reference to all the constitutional know ledge and information he had through life acquired ; awl, it was • further presumption, that what was done by Lord Chatham, did not at least strike with this blase of conviction, as unconstitutional!, that when he communicated to his colleagues his design of presenting his N orrativr, it never struck one of them as at all hostile to the estehlistred prac tice. As roe its containing concealed iusinua lions against the Naval Service. such • posi tion could not for a moment be entertained, for the very day after it was presented, it was, at the desire of' the Nohle bold himself, by one of his own friends, moved for to be laid before the House. There was no azeusetion against that ser vice, but a simple narrative of facts. leaving it open to the Naval Commander to account for those in which the navy was concerned. If the Noble Earl hail not desired its production, the House would have had considerable difficulty in moving for it, and he doubted that ever they would have been put in possession of that information, but through his means. This did not look like a desire of se crecy. According to the Constitution, they could not punish Lord Chatham ; and if there was no precedent, it would Ise most unmerited to punish him for an error of judgment. The old prejudice of secret influence was beginning to revive, and to be urged to poison the vote against the Noble Earl. lint he was free from constitutional error. When the Kiang sent for Mr. Pitt, he was adinitte I to the closet to give hi* advice, while Mr. Fox, the Minis ter, was in the anti-room. He (Mr. Pitt) knew the Constitution as well as ever man did, and lie would not have done this, hid he tint been convinced that Hie Majesty had a tight, separately and secretly. to ask the advice of his Privy Counsellors. Earl Teatree hail often heard extraordinary opinions urged in that House ; but the constitu tional doctrines of the last speaker were the moat extraordinary he had veer heard, and such as lie did not expect to hear in these days. The lion. firmer& had stated, that Lord Chatham, is a Privy Counsellor,liail a right toad' ire His Majesty,atid that the Constitute del not recognize a Cabinet Coun cil. Did he mean to say, that those called to advise the King, were not to consult and tuilviAr together before they tendered their advice ? It was precisely on this principle that the Cabal was funned, by four Ministers comhieing to give •dv ice, iis opposi lion to the Council, and for which the Cabinet was responsible. Upon this Sir William Temple advised Hie Majesty to consult on the "'tithed of overturning the Cabal. This Cabil was the land mark for their avoidance, and against it the Con . stitutiou had always cried out with its loudest voice. Let it not then be set up as an es ewe for Lord Chatham. He also protested against that other doctrine of the Honourable Gentleman, that. sinless some action emoted. there was no responsibility oil Minister*. The Conan ' tution was not regulated by law or statute, but by practices—(Hew I) Was it then the prEctoce of' the Constitution that a Privy Counsellor was to V°4l . e ib(l ei l% fc t it hi l e tis r 7 B / 3 8 C l e t f in tLe illit pu ljee blic " :era: 11::::::""1111:::11:-: without punislimeut tit respenisibilitv. % -- e . "" 11 Lord then ex ',reseed his perme a l 'Ws being compelled by his duty to offer 117 or regre t bt , had the cliorge been against th 1 1 7" u so l ) 91 n : to ri t i.i i;g set ;: v ; w e a i d t;g •dlt i i : o l ; .l . rr"Lildith"firt7a7b" elate his v :regretted tl,e l u t f o : l l l 6, t_ ur : liar giving ,ee, :old reynirnig it It was now us f,re ihe public . drawn the 1in1114.4 (Thar!) Warr It Lord V ." '7l : n l ' Y wish ? (/../la (tie* of Bear! he ar au "D r t ", from ihr l'reaarry peaches.) Wa , it l : I " Wit4l? Loud chr - er-$.) \% he Uiru give the evident e Ise did. VI A Silt it ;it's of L. , ' doter Now that lieu as dar e d t o it by How coubl Lord Clinthilin say it evis rish v one city, whet' lie was forced be thr less it was On another? The 'claim mane b u y " : Learned Gentleman opprivite he would ever " nurt lie trusted, oink a blouse of Commons it mould be revered. H e c u ll e d vu them ;'l.- visit the offence of Lord Chath a m on avectint o of t memory of Mr. Pitt.—(Cries of no n n tl i e r it ea* nut so, let the Learned Gt d deny the fact. [Here Mr. Stew e & "" - that purpose.] I-he would net b e inter l fw rtj'ted": the Learned Gentleman would h ate an oi nity of explaining hereafter. Harr could such s claim he made in the names of a Pitt and haw, the ono a Minister the mutt misfile:total, the other the greatest enemy to private i, &nisei He protested against it. stud would uot allow tl * shadow of a twine to shield and tamer the vi o l et of the principles these illustrious 16011 possre, s 7 This was the first moment he had ever craved t o Bret the memory of Mr. Pitt. But whet einll4; have done had he lived to see the favettrte Rewi re of his country chareed acid colonial:nod be alit,,. cwtinfluence of Id• ono brother ilior e t ur , mule II contrary Newel to the lio,wi. how , :be of the Learned Geuticumu and as for the rejea ci ,:. trodurril, it must he reciillcteel, thin it ,s.• t. , t Ins word by Lord Chatham, ;not fort 0,1 41;••a, f• lllUOPbyhim. Coder the SY I.o.llSlllertl nopport to the origanal motions. Gent. on the floor (Mr. Bunke.) told flute tit 0.% Constitution was lint to be left in the li:1;.(14 rt co p i i t ill ts •• tuajo.ity 01 that Hoerr. Ile I, .rai;rl.l : •aa bun nod the Learned Getideorani op t o,ve Steven!' in rttaru for their eltalkt:v•, 4 precedent in the practice of the I :o ns tit u ti,, i , la each couduct as Lord Chailinm's. Ile ogrrril that Ministers were fer.pow.ible if they itetrit ler swot liillilet!ceo If any men could be La,...1 eto.oigh to at star If then there ever were men hint, it t!,i tuition ass negatived it world enc,•ie ' ••il; there never eoulll lie 1421111Ug a 1110,w:A try to act tinder arty ixirigue or cabal that Mr. Srut rots, in explanation. stated, hit nut made the cluirii imputed to hmi and rg, L.l upon by Earl Temple.. lie had l int chim e d the !louse the excuse of Lord Chatham, in, iire,.l.t of his brother or father. but had conjured tht!-: gaoled the words of the first Lord Chaelwa 7a condemn:emu of his son, and those who nice tw d. 1161101101111 to the late Alt. Pitt, to do him corn. mon justice, and defend him from the spleen of party spirit. Mr. C. Jones - roe a was of opinion that LordChst. ham had hitlwrtu suffered morefrous hisfriends dm from hiseneusies. The House could not refrimaln. gether from expressing an opinion upon his rendre% and therefore the previous question, s Fisch went to dismiss the matter entirely without notice, could not have his summit. On coming into the Donee, ta mind was made op to'consider his conduct as or constitutional ; but from what he bad beard hoe the Learned Gentleman near him, (Mr. Steen) and the refutation attempted by the Learned As her opposite, (Mr. Brougham,) oral the able coio stitsitional arguments of the Hon. Godsons on the floor, (ilr. Baakese) he now enterteord very strong doubts as to the validity of that op , More It appeared unconstitutional to h,m,as Lord Chatham did not act us a Cabinet Counsellor. but 83 the General of an army. He could however, go the length of the original rceilie;oci. which, if agreed Veiniest necessarily be fullimed tt? by incapacitating Lord Chatham from serving Ho Mejesty, a punishment by much ton severe, but would wish to adopt some others, which wonl.l vent the recurrence of &signifier practice in futile. Ile had not the honour of an intimacy with th , - ble Lord, but every owe who knew him must ;e he that there never was a man in public life more riir• ueut for fairness, cawdonr, and sincerity. Ile 5e:,.,;. ed, then, to the Hon. Gentleman, (Mr. Whithree • in his cooler moments, if he could conceive tit alit tiormtive was preoemod with any insidious of un ligroin! ititention? The conduct n fight he 1,9 . 1 . 4 , 0• per, last could never bear this character. . • Noble Lord was seat to accomplish a service ohol• under existing circumstances, could phslied—(Haar! hrar !)—Oil his retort.. t Of preinda e ruts strongly against Imo. 3"i m natu ly anxious to vindicate Lin o.tn c0. ,1 '!". but certainly never meant to throw upon env other individual. IVith meted t, iii 14t issdaenee.. a softie-et so much insisted et', they considered that there ails no pteof ni ii ' re .•• fifty years, it would weaken their bee , ' In the r,!•:.. Lion that it at all existe*l. It was indeed like and goblins, much spoken of, hut ,in roe ; s . yd, say theie is the man eh° has seen it. 'le o:r r'- King William, when lavonnusm did f s,,t, it notmions, and every one could era w; of 0114 whet. it was; but in this reign it had escap id the thirteen years arliiiiiiistration of Lord pittaAft I' the sixteen years sdruinivtratiou of Mr• the administration of Lord Groi.v:i;• . 1: 11 ' 1 " " 1 _ imputed to Lord Bute, in his d s y. lea w.. • n . o r : m known historical fact. that Leelnnt... `O far having secret influence; comehensat of negr. „ Here, however, secret influelice was twenty days, arid this was all the pr oof of its effects. He was not afraid of darqt,erg of this ne,fa nor of the influence of the crown- - what he ' more was the cembinstion of great no d P7; re ,. f.sasilles. to control the trown.---t/fter• • . from eke Oppositfee.)—G.! ,, V ,.. n l9 „. ' idea as if was erroneous, 13 , •t ample, of its possibility at on 7 7 " ' • .• T I all:. • a When the coalition between Lent lo ,t 1 100 isll,to I their 'his the le evil ' 'ith th aeotiori sh to I Ishtar, ith his Authori Mr. r Lord Geo. trier to 11 - 0111 . f. t .34e ; Amt of ht, ea 4y reptxt ui oot yet bad ere the C. increase anCr.lor ;ilitral d.itiet. cumin•r that con liGrravtit try, It Ir,tv, it 5...11 a I luan• IC Mr. .a Main' !An. 1-1: 1 It gay , f.• 4!..1 el„ 1: 1° NI( rirl k! rn .