The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1809-05-20 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. Roue or LORDS, Failwr,Viir lg. --.- POVLErs DtvoitrE BILL • Cosalel we,— again called to tke Bar, sad Mrs J.an Bather was chauvinist as au additional witneis, Si *roue the act of Adultery between Mrs. Nimbi and Lord uarkeilie. She stated that, whoa Mrs. Punkt returued front Winchester to Southampton, she (Ate Witness) had an opportonity of uhserving her Saco, sad the atpearance eat such as to induce her to believe there and becacriinival cuu swetine between Mrs. P. and a4tlte gentleman. She was waiting WOMISSI to her tentrris, :toil bad an opportunity of kaoaiuE Mr. runlet was at that time absent, nu a water Mr. CORRY. Solicitor in this cause, said this ciremndauce was hest iutimated to him by a genticorisi of the num.. of Richard Crew Esq.; and spun sending Mr Cillin;listis, lira officiating c'eric, to the last witness she cutuniunicat, d the parptat of what she had stat. n t to die House. The LORD CD A%V reemoinented to the rouse, the rroprieti of poising loftier they determined upon the second readiux,of this Bill. Though he lerstuud Mr. P. to he present, and reedy to he contained Isefare their Lord ships, if their LordnlOps should be disposed to exert such of nacc,sity they would he ineined to oslt,ecery others nuns. it was necessary that Mr. Gillingham and Mr. Crew should be both examined. Oo this account he would propose to postpone the second reading of the Bill to Thursday next. tlnicred Th e t r io, lusoleent Octanes Bill paused througlisiToin. sitter, and was reported sithout any amendment. • CRUELTY TO MUTE ANIM.LL.S. Lord ERSI.III4 moved that the commitment of the Bill for the prevention of Cruelty towards lanai Animals he pri-4 , potted till Wednesday sennight. Agreed to. Mr. Waxe.ros and other Alcintwis (coin the Room of Commons lironht up the Custonis Warehousing Bill s sad toe Land Tam Commissioners Bill, and many titi vate 11116, which were laid upnu the Titbit., oust severedly read the tint time. Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The HMIS,' went into a Committee on the Ship °worn' Bill. The lirrOta an, received, and ur4w4 to be taken list(' furl her Weantstay neat. Mr. eRFE V moved, dint sit Account be hid before the Hones of all charge. for solar rs raid out of the 41 per cent. • Leeward Woad Duties be laid before dm. llousi.. Agreed to. lir. %Vs imearoacs a 'veil, that ther4 he !ail hatee the Hoeft an Account of the 3litaistm, of Crialeace before the Committee on the Ga. Light C,mapsnya gill. Agreed • The House resolved itself Into a Committee GO the Cha ritable Donation Bill. The Report was brought sip, and or dered to be taken into farther consiticration ma Wednesday next. A Message from the Home of Lords informed the Howse that their Lordships had wzniTil to the 'rerople BM- Improve ustat Bill, and several Inclosure gills. . Mr. i11i.11101 , 01 beams/at up the Lottery Bill, which was read a first time sad ordered to be read a second time to. m.wrow. On the motion of Mr. Rose, the Howse went into a Com mittee on the Woolleu Maiiiificierers Mt, the report was ordered to be received on Wailmudoy mut. The Hoare resolved itself into a Committee on the Mtn tiaigoe Tonle Bill. The report was received, and the Bill entered to be read a third time on Weeluesiday neat. Geaeral GustavNa prescated a Petition from several Maimfiveturers of Salt iu the vicinity of Liverpool, prayiug .an Jeerers of duty on roreiga Salt impacted into Eagisuil it Ireland.--Ordered to he us the table. The second reaming of the Bill to enable Judges to try civil trusses is their own media", sou postponed till Thurin day next. The House resolved itself latest Committee on the Arts relating to Gunpowder. The repine wee received, and a Bill oedered to be brought he to Weskitr the tallying of pepowder-arass, ke. coastwise he Indeed. Oa the minima of Mr VANItiTAIIIt, us *KOWA of all VMS of mousey immodest the service of Portugal, iece elle nth of May, limy, to the latest period, was ordered to be kid behwe die Howse. Mr. Hestutstios snowed the second reeding of the Loan Hill, which wad agreed to. and the Bill ordered to be read a thitd time to nnineme. t ~ • .• • Oa the motion of Mr. FOITMIt, the 'Report of the Nsh Beer Bill um ordered to lie takes into further consideration. Coked HIDTIMIN SON opposed the Bill, as being loaded with porgies, and competitors the Brewers to nee all Malt, which had enabled tlte moan.* .Bitwers to forestall the mar ket, slide the Brewers of salad capital must purchase to great dinadvantage. Mr. Foveae said, that the peimbies• had been reran imaged by the Beeson., themselves, - ad were intruded to Prevent sdalteratiou. The Bill upon the whole use of the same effect as that which regulated the Eaglish Breweries. Mr. Passau. considered the Big as an act of ;scat op position upon the small capitalists. Atlerjo, fey words from Col. Hutentisow, the Bill was ordered to be read • third Uses as IVedisenley nest. IRISH TITHES. Mr. PARNELL, in rising to address the Muse on the subject of Irish Tithes, called their atten tion to too petitions, which wet:. presented last serviette—The first was from the Quetta's county, praying far a commutation of tithes—alid the se coed, to the same effect, from the Sheriff and. Free. holders of the county of Kerry ; loesides these, another had been prepared from the county of Tip, perary ; but why it had not Lien presented to the House, he could not tell. The comities of Clare, Wicklow, and Armagh, had •.atite to resolutions upon the necessity of a change iu the tootle of col. letting tithes: and h« land uo doubt, had other comities been consulted, their sentiments would hare been the saint. Ile would go so tar as to say, that the a hole body of clergy were anxious some change sbould take place in the existing rysti•on of ithes, and believed that they were most nozgrieved by its °pension's. %Vhatever grievances did were not :o be ettribsited to the hotly of tlie cher gy—'oe doll toot attach ally blame to thew. Ito England, the inrenues of the clergy were greatly increased by small tithes, Ill) such eel!' (twit ex isted in Ireland , all pastured lauds were :also greatly relieved from tin. tax ; the payment of id. saved the tithe of dos, and the tithe of potatoes was very small. The clergy hail 6..116013 to complain of the preneut system, and he had taken pains to ascertain the proportion and value of their receipts ; for the tithe of an acre of wheat, which is valued at24s. they receive Its.; for an acre ad barley, valued tat 19s. 6d. they rerrese go. Bd. ; for au• acre of oats. at 16n. they get Is.; for potatoes. at 28s. they have Si. ; and for meadow, Yid 'Rd at Its. 6 they get 6i.: nod be belieVed this to be an accurate statensetot, bake); the country generally—it was not made from part*. ease places. The !Immutable Member wished the floosie to understood, that the Petitions flid not come from the body of Catholics--they hid stu dious& abstained (rota attending any of these pub. lie meeting*. He also wished the /louse to and' r. stand, that the Petitiorle hod 'not emanated in party feelings, bet in public motives, which would tend to the general welfare if the country. Last see. wens be gave notice that hi would move for three Petitions to bs referred to a Committee—but wish.. ing the aaliject should rather be taken olio by His Mi tt rt he saw a Right How Gentle :tutu upon the tlthjeeti win) explicitly declared his sad candidly armed his feeling+ to be in • •. . . •'. • r unison with his own, bet sesta' sgificultitia wo ul occur which might prevent him briugingtbe toes- Lion forward. That Right Non. Gentleman laving intimated that it was not his intention to bring the matter forward this session, the subject reverted to luau. Thinking he would stood ho chance nest propos big a Cunnitittee, • to eissuidsr the expediency of .1 commuyinti of tithe* hi Ireland, it was his bi teutiiiii to propose to allow jiicuitibents of parishes to grant a lease for YI years to the parishioners, whine lie oar induced to do from the catii:..l and liberal udinission, last session, that a necessity ex .isted for eliangiug the system of the Church reve nue Obit country. Ile I losiT quoted the °pinhole of l)r. 'Smith and Dr. !lull he, uvula the bail po hey of tithes, un:l ulso Mr. Thonsywni, who, is his " Auu.ds or Agriculture," inentimis a quantity of hind in England, which might have liven cultivai ed at itt per acre. and would have Pro duced amilially 10,0001. but the tithe owners would not take less t h an 11.u001. for their right ; thus tithes operand uguiest the interest of tile country, and in Ireland the objections were still greater.— The lion. Grotlemait then commented on the itd vantnges his BM would afford the Clergy, and par ticularly dwelt the existing method of collecting tithes in !reknit, I! on which a greater scene of miss chief accrued that' in any other coisutry in the world. In !rebind it is iinpos-thle any person coold exist out lasts he was an occupier of land, stud thus paupers oc cupy land, and the elergymati is reinlered unable to collect tithes or get legid redress; they employ a proctor, or tithe-farmer, and they create distresses, li every one lutist deeply deplore; the law was oppressive Upois the ;.arisliiiiiiers, mill if the Imel lord was poor, he could get no redress from the exaction or tithes. He rend part of a speech deli va usl one of the public meetings, which be be- hived contained an ac:ortite view of the ease, which stated the power of the proctors over small proprie tors as nearly despotic, who, if their valnation is objected to. serve them with a citation, threaten tii ruin them with the expense, and hold them op to the county as disloyal men alto refuse to pay tithes, wishing to sill•rert the estelilisheil church. It watt well known that titre had recently Leen dis turhauces its the county of Berry; a liich hail been suppressed in the wisest way poi the Lord Lieute nant, assisted by thee Roman Catholic Clergy, i.lto iuducal them to assemble in place., where debuted multitudes clelive:eil up their Arms. and declared on their oath* that they hod been goaded to madness by the tyranny of Isrocrorsliips. The Honourable Member then submitted, whether he had not made out a case tit for the consiileriition of the - house, and having stated the had conse quences and inernivenieecies arisilig from the col lection of tithes in Ireland, hoped, if his 111!1 were supported, they would hr at au end ; he thought it hood a strong claim to support ; one reason which induced him to urge the measure proposed, was its being a good measure, likely to lead to a c autunite /ion ; which. however mock to be wished. he had tbought proper to promse something wore The Honourable !homier then touched upou the hopolicy and injustice of tithes in general, a hich were contrary to the lirat priumples of taxi:- lion, tended to check the force of industry, and wce• injonous to the cause of religioii.— There was another toisic upon which he felt it ne cessary to touch, and that was the state of the Church as by law established in Irelaiid, which. it was well known, did not consist or above one-tenth of the population of that country. Those best at. quainted with the subject, estimated the nuudier of inhabitants at not li as than five millions ; of whom four millions were Roman Catholics; and of the remainder, the one half at least were of the descriptiou of Dissenters from the Established Church; so that nine-tombs of the people were forced to con tr ib u t e to t h e support of the Esta blished Church, without any return for so doing. That the grievanees atrmoig ant of lithe,' were, in a great degree, the cause ul all the disturbances which had so long mg:tilted that country, particu larly those winch took place eleven years ago, was manifest, from the examination of the leaders of that rebellion, before the Select Cnutmittee of the Irish House of Lairds. Upon that occasion it was asked Dr. Nl.Nevio, loot only a leader. but one of ' uckuowledged• ability and talent If tithes had been commuted' according to the plat proposed by Mr. Grattan. what effect it was likely to pro duce upon the pe.iple:." His answer was, .• that it was a play by the adoption of which a most powerful engine would have been taken oat of their (the Leader's) howls." Meiji then wise 51inisters to refuse the limited measinaLsoch as he proposed, when so much of the safety of the em pire might depend upon couciliating so important a branch of it ? There was only one topic more upon which his f, It it necessary to touch. A Right Hon. G•mtleinaii Human, more, as an indiseemeist to the people of Ireland to consent to the measure un 'Lilo,' then under contemplation, had held out in his eon mime, in a speech which lie made apon that occasion, and which ca. printed and circus. hated throughout (h i nt country bv Government. that oust of the couientiences of shat ineovore %%mild be. that some mole would necessurily br nilopted by the lin penal Pielitimenr, fur the purpose of relic sing the people from the pres sure of tithes, which, he admitted, were a wrist practical evil. He would therefore conclude what lie had to say, with warming the Ministers of the present day, that they would do well to consider a little the cunsequeisces of n refusal to the proposi tion which he hail to offer. Ile moved, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill, to make proripum holding ecelesiasticel benefices, and to wl,om tithes ' were piyable, to demise the war for a terui, not exceeding twenty-our yei.rs." Mr. PkIttEVA L. in rising to give his'inost decided opposition to the usessure now prniveseil, felt him self also horrid to state his reason. for that opposi ties, and though lie owned he had felt himself in some degree saver in his opiiiiirna, in the coarse of the convereation he had with the [lnn. Gentlemao on the subket. yet, epees th • most mature e insider ado,. he could give it, lie was now already of opi nion, that nothing radically isehelicial could he ef fected. He hoti oven so strong a wish on the aces bison as to go the leirath of preparing a Bill for the purpose, although the, Hon. Gentleman, in all he lied said, had oat stated how his plait was to be carried into execution. la the courant however of his investigation. he WI fouled such difficulties iw his vollsit9 various sod so multiplied, as obliged him to abandon his intentions, as altogether impracticable. - He —shell to look at it as a measure likely to calm the disquietude, that existed ; rod now he leit himself bound to object to the measure proposed. as see i likely to excite an exiseetalsou of some thisig moos to fullers on the back of it, and Vets effectin the very mischief intended to he allayed 'by it. 'file lest airgliaieut used by the .llon. Gen theme' was, that tenths of thelieople or Ire land were not Protestasets : this stewed that some great diversion of tithes from the present system was intended, and therefore lie emieeived they were calledon to pause before they proceeded, without accurately kieowine how far they might be culled uu isl ereeveil. They ehould h 4: guarded in their expression of the:existence of evil ; the Ilon. Gen tleutaa hail said the people of Ireland *ere anxious for a e mutation of tithes ;is there any plan for fleet purpose? had the Han. Gentleman digested any such; bad he formed soy s) stein of substitu tioa ? Fur his part, he beliled that in the event of ulty such being adopted, and if the consequence was reefed to be that they paid more than they do at pre.eut, the people of = Ireland would not be very much in love with the alteration ; and yet such he firmly believed would be the probable mse in such an event, inasmuch as he was satisfied, that on the whole the tithe. did not, necoidiug to their present mode of collection, produce 50 per cent. of their reed value. Besides what must they do in pro eeeding to carry the proposed measure iuto effect? They must in the first instance institute a COlllll3ih diet& tier the purpose: of ascertaiuiug what was the real velar of tithes, in order to knew what was the com mutation at which it wits to be fixed ; and did Gen tlemen suppose, that any plan, founded Oil such principles, could afford ease to the people? lie thought the very reverse would tarn out to be the ruse, mud tend rather to produce than 'allay the die. coutent so much complUillill of. How then could it be Mid that the ',ti l de were in larour of on übolition tithes? It might er trtie they were so nuw ; but world they be so Ade:). found they were to pry so much More than they do at Oresesit, spot et commu tation founded upon a lair and fall estimate of the tattle of their tithe*? The buidlords might indeed be enourulde to the measure, as the surplus be yond the present rate ?mild probebly Iliad its way into their pockets. But, sifter ell, where was the hardship to lie Cruml in the payment of tithes?— What owner of lend could say lie was entitled to lands, either by purchase or descent, which he did not urnong other terms subject. to the pay ment oftithesi 4, then, he hid no right to compluits, still less had the teourst who took them, knowing they were subject to the inc .vibrance ? He par ticularly felt himself hound to oppose the present motion, as the Honourable Gentleman had cx. premly stated that the present was to be considered us a step merely leading to other ionovatiens, which he could not approve. Her had watched the Honourable Gentleman through the whole of his speech, and he could uot find out ally spe cific plan which he meant to proeme. Was it in tended by his Bill to eitahle the Clergy to make leases of then tithes, or was it , intended to go fur ther, an l compel them to du see? If the former of these sail intended. the act might become mere deal letter. By the taw, as it now stood, the Clergyitem multi .greot a It aeie of hi. tithes daring his ono tureumbeney ; amid if lee did not feel any ineltuataiii to adopt stet a mtaenre as things now stood, it was not to he eveceted he would be more likely tem do so after pa—ing the act. Will, respect to the passer pro;.-seet of binding the successor, the evil was obvious iii the dtmger of the incumbent being induced by the temptation of a present line to m.ike a lease, which would be higlily prejudicial to the interests eel those who were to come alter I n to. or else to submit such lea=ns to the upprobation of the Bisbee. This would be found to be a duty impossible to be discharged conscientiously, ba wds-a being attended with considerable expense to poor telltales for the 'linking out their buses; and even if they were witlhig to be at the expense, emits! be enamel tee be a mere mutter of form, from the impossibility of the Bishop, Jo:nig acquainted with the merits of each marticulur cane. 'Flwse were among the difficultieti which, iu his attempt to frame a measure likely to be efficient, he had found so strong as to induce him to $11)111111°9 all hope of beingaible to remove them. There were, besides thieve, other difficulties in the way. To whom were the leases to be made—to the tenant or tothe land lord ? If to the latter, the tomtit would surely not lie benefited by the measure, but rather the cmitrary, as is that case, the landleird would put in his pocket that which now, by the lax mode of levying tythes, fell 'u the shire of the tenant.— Best& s, he coundereil, that if the system were pro per to lie adopted at all, it should not be partial or confined to one past of the empire, hut nether die nuiversal in its operation, and me such he had in tended it in case he heel found et practicable. lie trusted lie had , *hews, to the satisfactions of the House, that it wen ill sufficient rumens, and not caprice, he had altered his upiniein 1111 the flellifet; mid he einught it belt !r at nine to negative the preposition, than to hold out a false hope, where sin possible belie& could he expected to follow loom it. In re and to the pledge stated to haver been made * relative to the routinutei of tithes, as an event to take place consequeiiiiiil to the Act of Chem, he coedit only my he had nerer heard of such a thilig before ; but be that as i t way, w h o ever beer's, a pledge it+ binding leeteeen ton countries, instead rather of looking to the articles themselves of that Untrue in order to judge of their infraction or preservntion ? Mr. Tiente lamented the disappointment that Ireland would feel, when she should hear that this measure was abamloned, and that the Chancellor of the Exehequer &elan d he was obliged to give it up as being impracticable. With re- i vect to the pledge meutioised by his Honourable Friend,. lie must say * few words. fie did think it binding s bemuse the (iovernment of that :ley had indus triously circulated it into every part of the sister kingdom, thereby taking it upon themselves. It even contained terms 'stronger still than those stated by his Honouruble Friend, us adverting to the claims of the Catholic's of Irehinel, struPit pro vision far their elerey ; and Mr. Pitt was mails, to say that these were the grounds upon the rule Shama of which he ventured to propose ire Union between the two countries. Would it be said he meant te perform his promise. or that lie menet to delude the people of Ireland' I)id the pelmet disjointed Administration imagine they more strength than he possessed to etiret the latter, or did they consider the present a lit tnoment, ahem clouds overhung the political horizon ? Hr de. clued he did not stand up for one plan more than enother, being instructed to support any plan , es being better than the present system. It would he recollected. thatin Irelead.there were three religiose reeognized by the law of the land, and it was requi. • site that all their ministers should be decently •maiste taints!. le this respectshe diJßrat materially from England, and therefore he coald not agree to the nee' cesiety of extending the alteration pruposed to tine country. In 'Maud, also, the poor found them.:: * selves forced to pay whatever was demanded tif them in the shape of coininutatioit of titlit, or ex. pea to bear a thunder more dreadertity them than the French Artillery. the censures- emitted- by the Canons of the Church, in the shape of citations. This wits the more hard upon them us the doctrines* of the Church of England had not been presitheff to them in the mild language of the gospel, but enforced et the point of the British bayonets, par. ticularly in tire tonic of Elizabeth ; upon the whet. he svarsed Ministers, that if they refused to redsl,:,‘ the pledge made on the subject, they might expect to find the wide of that House roeered wits Pe titions from all earts of that kingdom, prneln t t a• repeal of that which would relieve them frees en' further care on the subject of that pledge. The Hon. DlCtt,a Littowee considered the ad.-- wallets period of the Seesioe as unfit for the harm.. ductiou of a subject of such magnitude; it iderelld bb isitroduced inviter at the commencement, in or. der to afford due thus for deliberation and discus sion, and if such were introduced, he pledged him self to give it his support. Mr. GRATTAN reprobated the *hole of the pre sent system of tithes—they created the tithe-pro., tor, and he was the•grestest and must penile:loos upon earth lie cheats two ways, for he take' more than his due from the farmer, and the panl'. does not receive that whirls he is entitled to. li* Protestant Church estahliehtuent should be pooti lar in Ireland, because it supported the Protestemit interest in the couetry : but if public odium tell upon the Proctor, that ssistundly transferred itself to the Parson, *led throng!' him it teaches! to the Geterninent. The qui siien itself sae to Ire de bated oil two grumads, both a, respectitig. the me..- sure itself proposed, and as leading to a system Of emninutatiors. To the latter he professed he bed been always friendly; hr was also friendly to the • Church estabfislimeet, yet he could amt but think that the nature of tithat served only to resider the clergy disrespected. He would not diminish their ineeine, altlsinigh he eoasWered it abusitiminy am ple; but he would not have it remain nueertain. Ile allowed there sees nimtculty in applying a reme dy to she evil, bus he would not allow it was inui • possible. If GentleineiLwili not inquire, they can• not expect to be is:formed; and the Doty way he knew of to acquire information.*** to go into a Coalmine., and therein to leant the ante of the Irish Church. If the Right Hon. Gentleman had good grounds fur th e change i n his sentiments, he thought be war equally well-founded in unstring to his. • It was lope and ridiculous to Milt of ims.. (miring. into the real value of tithes, for, if they slid so, they should esptally iluptire into their application, lad- the purposes for ohiph thee were originally. granted , and, lir that *went, be apprt headed the Clergy would be famed to he no great gainers by this inquiry.; the true object of inquiry would be, what was a lit and proper sup. port liar the Clergy ? and upon that inquiry he . was sure they would not be left less rich ; mid be did not wish they shod.' Le more so. In respect to Ireloud, it should be recollected, that the Catholics pay to two churches; the one frouu choice, the other from necessity ; and that without • receiviug any spirituel compensation irballever. Another hardship in tithes was, that they were suit merely n lithe upon the produce of the hod, but also, of ueeessi ty, upon the labour in the attainment of that produce. The sincertainty of that produce was likewise the fouinletion of disputes every year. unless they did that by agreessesit which Avoid be done by, Act.of Parliament. Ile had himself, at two different periods, proposed what he consi dered at remedy for the evil, and he thought either of them was preferahle to the present system ; is like manner he considered the preheat Bill as pro posed at least feasible. At the period of the exist ence (*lnlet description.of disturbers called White Boys, he had proposed, and a clergyman had adopt ed ustem of commistatinie by o hich be had ob tained an income emmsideitably larger, and with mu tual satisfaction, than he enitid here obtained by the regular snodminf levying his tithes. The system of leases he by no means considered as impracticable mill they would certainly here the good effect of enabling time fuenier to follow aid eery his lodes try without (heed of uwy fresh deutund hieing made upon that inclusty. He considered the pries elide a good one, and cominuiation eligible, ass sr. enring to the firmer the greatest blessing hr was ea pable of receiviiig- e -a Security a,{siost uncertainty. Mr. MAVISICe FITZGIMALD supported the me. time and in doing SO. represented the hardship. mif a million of people of Ireland, who were Ca. posell to greater burdens in regard to tither, that' the people of Blighted ; and in In•ltind tin pone rates such no paupers were supported at the pultlic expense, while those here were supported by poor rates and in workhouses. Mr. M ACM *LIGHTEN segued against the mil Mo. He should lie glad to hear of any plan that likely to effect • change that could add to the CUM. forts of those paying tithes, but he hail us yet helms of none that could meet with his approbation. reco 11111 l elided to Gentlemen not to bring girl/mut any measure of this port until they could prepare it proper subvtitut. for that which they moult to remeily. Mr. Coosa* spoke Against the motion. Colonel Hurctitaren supported it. He thought the tithe system in England ass perfect in com parison to that of Ireland. and although the pre sent proposition did nut go to remedy the evil, yet it pletv•il the House, that early is nest erosion they wi.ulil tart their attention to at. Nfr. Faxecti shoved the previous (petition, as he saw no prospect of the. Hou-e,being able to discuss the measure (luring this Ses.ion, and it was only rumor:y.oin a feeling altirh the% could not Bruit '.. lip ii tlir previous question befog put fro m t he Chair, • PM N ft SI