The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-03-13 00:00:00

f~ HOUSE OF COMMONS. On b- n 6 summoned in the teu , al form, by the Bleck Rod, to attend the Lords t ontmi.sionen in the Howe of Peers, they "emit , tp accordingly, and the Speaker, uu their return, in. tooth d ti.eni that the Royal Assent had been given by Com. niwion to the Loan Duty, Pa.tage Duty, the Quoin tt tt e, and so.ne private Rills. Sir JOIIN ANDERSON brought In a Rill tel the better tegul.diun of the price and baking of bread in the City of Lou don, and twenty miles about it, which, on account of .00ze informal. tv , was afterward. withdraw.,. A person fmin the Chancellor of the Exchequer's Office, in Ire an I, presented an account of the progress made by the Comminioners fur liquidating the national debt of that country, which was ordered to be printed. Colonel BAGSk-LL give notice, that he would on Thurs day next name for leave to bring in a Bill for amending the Liecionn Lairs in Ireland. Lu.,l WM. aussLLL moved that the order for taking into ro , iii.ie-ation the report of the+ Knareoburough Elettiost Coin Mt:tre be defernd to Thunder next, veto( h was a g reed H., reason for doing so, he said, was that the Papers contain. hag the nevem,' information were not primed till this morn tog, and he wished to apprise the tiolle t e, that to avoid the tr.ruble and ,ereisee of bringing the wittr.-Aes and parties up her. to snood, in the pr...eot hz should move that the °trendier' be prosecute' bp , ths A onerey Etrneml. lir. CIELVEY deft-riot his %lotion, on the subj.° of Mr. . E farce, from Thursday next to thla day re'thog ;t: 1 he Order of the Day fur the 2rl reading of the Legacy D t. BM war, on the Motion .4 - Mr. S. Bourne, deferred to Enday next. Mr. GREY wilted to know whether there would be any oh• iection to have it pruned. Mr. BOURSE repli d that the o►ieetirut tat in the dia . erthy of executing such an order during the present situation of the pressmen. What gave rise to the present Motion wins simply his—a difference of opinion that prevailed in the ..ommittee, how far they could, under the Words of the reference made to' theft by the House, go into the investigation of any matter of charge, farther than what WAS alleged in the Petitions. The ques ion certainly respeaed matter of form; but the !ornmittee were of opinion, that the wording of the .tesolution of the House, by which they were au thorised to proceed, was so loose and general, as to render a recurrence to it necessary, for a more spc •ific direaion as to tneir line of proceeding. Lord ELLENBOROUGH expressed his ac iluingence in what fell from his Nuble Friend. He regarded the present as a question of form ; at the nine time be seemed to think the Motion, as ori ginally proposed, of too general and comprehensive a nature ; or, at least, not sufficiently regulAr, or expressive, as to the objea in view. He should, therefore, suggest an amendment s the effee of which would be, that se much of the matters al leged in charge as should not be set forth in the Pe titions should now be offered to the consideration of the Committee. With vesper% to the general sub jed, it could, in some points of view. be prefera ble, were it before them in the regular judicial shape of impeachment. In the consideration of an Ad dreu, upon soch a suojea, they were launched into a field of discussion without a compass and without a guide. Ile hoed that. in the result of the present investigation, the eeds of public and private justice would be substantially answered sif ocent, that the accused should remain spotless in charaasr and in time, as he hoped that no step of their Lordships would divest him of the robe of magistracy until, by being found a criminal, he should be unworthy of them. The Noble and Learned Lord concluded by *Poring an Amendment to the effea above stated. After a few words in explanation from the Mar leis of A BIRCORK and Lot d AUCKLAND, the ques tion was put, and the Amendment agreed to by the House. In the course of some routine business, which was afterwards transaaed, the oaths of abjuration and fidelity were administered to Messrs. Muller, Mal !muck. and Knaresfeld, previous to their Bills of Naturalisation being referred to the consideration of Committees.—Adjourneci. ,der, subjeited to the same solemnities of oaths as in ge neral tains Martial. To his proposal he never heard any other objeCtion made than the general one, that it would be an innovation in the service ; but the same argum an was applicable to any im• provernent that could be offered, and would have formerly applied with equal force against the Big itself. As the objeia of administering oaths was ac ceded to by the Secretary at War, what remained for him to submit was, that the Presidents on such courts should not be under the age of twenty-:one years. He proposed iton the same principle on which it was required, that none should preside in general Courts Marti who were not of the rank of field officers, the objet of which was, to provide that the Presi dents should be persons of a competent experience. It might, indeed, be said, that the Presidents of regimental Courts Martial were required to be of the rank of Captains, and that if a man was not fit fur such a PresiJent, he could not be fit to command a company. In answer to this, he would declare it as his opinion, that it would be a good and salu tary measure, it Captains were required to be of the age of 21 years. He thought the genius and ta lents of some young mei; would offer an exception to this regulation, but, as a general rule, he thought it might have very favourable consequences as to the service. On the present occasion, however, he would not submit any other alteration than the one he proposed, especially as military regulations in general mote properly belonged to the prerogative of the crown. He then proposed, as ad amend ment to the first clause, that after the words that " no man under the rank of Captain," should be added the words " and had attained the age of 21 years." Sir JAMES .TEN EY said, that though he respeited the motives on which the present clauses had been proposed; the arguments used in support of them had made no impression whatever upon him. To change, he said, what had been the con stant prallice in the army, from time immemorial, and under which the army had arrived to so high a charaCter, amongst military nations, was a matter that required the utmost degree of the most serious deliberation. He never heard from the proposers of this measure, or from other persons, any pre/tic:il ly bad effea that had evsr resulted from this usage; and, however slight the alteration may be re presented to be by its supporters, he must resist any innovation of whatever kind, for which no good pre/Neal reason was advanced. It must be admitted, that ro strong reasons had been alleged against, and he couhl himself see many strong reasons against it. Even the most minute circumstances, which at first sight may seem very trivial, had a considerable effeCt in turn ing the minds and habits of men far a military life. The use of arms, and the facility of forming mili tary evolutions, might indeed soon be learned, but it was the habitual resped for his officers which com pleted the charaCter of the soldier. The effed cf such a measure as this might be very iajurious to the military chara.ter, by tending to separate the men from their officers, and leading them to scru tinise their condud. Great bodies of men in arms should always be trained both to love and fair their officers, but this would tend to weaken the bond be tween them, and have the effcc of rendering the soldiers, in some degree, independent of those who commanded them. He denied that any severe pu nishments had been infli.ted for trifling offences, or any complaint ever made, that they were not very equally proportioned. Another objection he had was the uncertainty of where those innovations would, or whether they were meant to be equally carried into the discipline of the navy ; but at all events, he in at give his negative to any changes, founded nu nothing more than mere speculative apprehensions. The SECRETARY at WAR replied, that if he thought the clauses would have the most remote ten dency to relax the discipline of the army, or to shake the confidence of the men in their officeis, 1w should not have consented to propose them to the House. The Honourable Baronet contended that regimen tal Courts Martial were lenity to the soldiers, as they tried men for desertion under the nominal charge of absence from duty, and accordingly sen tenced them to milder punishment ; but it should be remembered, that to entertain charges of desertion, mutiny, &c. at all, was foreign from the original in stitution for the trial of small offences. He admit ted, that on consulting a board of the highest ge neral officers, they all, except two, expressed opi nions similar to those of the Honourable Baronet, but their observations did not carry sufficient con viction to his mind; and now that the measure was proposed, he would rather anticipate the wishes of the soldiers, than wait wail some maiml mischief should render the provision absolutely necessary. It was certainly no mote than equity and justice that oaths should be required in this, as well as in all other cases of trial ; but as to the amendment of the Hon. General ( Fitzpatrick), he did not see the necessity of adopting it , as the President of every such Court Martial must be of the rank of Captain, I and as it was in the discretion of the commanding officer to sae° whatever Captains he might think most proper for the exercise of that funiftion. Earl TEMPLE was against the oath being ad ministered, where the person who swore falsely was not liable to the penalties of perjury, as must be the case in a regimental Court Martial: •which was not a Court of Record like a general Court Martial, which was held in the presence of the King's Advo cate General. Mr. STURGESS BOURNE wished to correct the mistake of the Noble Lord, and to inform him, that persons perjuring themselves before a regi mental Court Martial, would be made liable to all its penalties. Sir EYRE COOTE said, that the object of these Clauses was by no meansnew to the service, and many years ago, he as well as someofficersofvery great ex perience had reason to wish for the adoption of such a provision. The objes of the 'louse could be no other than that of obtaining justice ; and this was not attainable, but by coming at the truth ; nor did he see how that could be completely dune without an oath. This, therefore, appeared to him, not an innovation, but an improvement ; and, as to the other proposal, that the Presidents should not be under ¶2l years of age, it was attendant with such defficelties, that he hoped his lion. Friend did not mean to press it.. . ~+ ing from too swam an attention ; fa, if any griev ance had been felt, the" would have had petitions on the table in favour of the measure. General NOil rON expressed his regret that the clauses had been proposed at all, but that having been done, he thought it his duty to support them, as far as regarded the oaths being administered, which the soldiers would in future be led to expec', when he refleCted on the severity of the punishments sometimes inflieted on them by these regimental Courts Martial. While he was on his legs, he wish ed to suggest, for the future consideration of the Ministers, whether it would not be expedient that corporal punishments should be regulated by the articles of war. _ . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that though he would admit there was no pradical necessity alleged in favour of the measure, yet it was brought forward on so just and fair a ground, that he for one could not bring himself to resist it. He knew that the opinions of some great military chara&ers were hostile to it; yet he was not so convinced by what they had stated, as to in duce him to oppose the clauses as far as they went ; for they were not calculated to introduce into these military trials any nice, technical roles of legal evi dence, which could never be applicable to any Court Martial ; but merely evidence similar to what had always been the praffice, with this only difference, that the testimony should be given upon oath. The sort of evidence they required was not that which would satisfy a lawyer, but that which was sa tisfadory to their own minds and consciences.— He liked the provision the better, for not being grounded on any pradical complaint, nor on any thing that could arraign or impugn the chara&er or condud of the officers, and which, therefore, could not lead the soldiers to distrust them. It would• also serve to proud the soldiers from the numerous trivial complaints made against them, by the inha bitants of places where they may be quartered, or of others not in the army, which were frequently sources of very great vexation. • It would he a se curity to the soldiers, as the accusers being liable to the penalties of perjury, would not be ready to sub stantiate every such trifling complaint upon their oaths. It would also proted the officers and mem bers of these courts from the bias towards too much lenity, into which they might otherwise be led by their good nature. He expressed his disapproba tion of the amendment for disqualifying persons to sit as Presidents under twenty-one years of age, be cause he thought it sufficient that they were required to be Captains, and that, by the late regulations. none could obtain that rank, without being at least two years in the army, during which they were obliged to attend Courts Martial, in order to obtain an acquaintance with their proceedings, before they could be called upon to sit on one. Lord DE BLAQUIER E said, he wanted no in novation in the system, but to have things brought hack to their original instituticn, to confine the juris didion of regimental courts-martial to oifling of fences, instead of trying, as they do now, offences of mutiny, desertion. Sze. under names that did not belong to them. He wished to have limited also the quantum of the punishment they should be entitled to inflid, for he had seen a man sentenced by a regimental court-martial to receive one thou sand strokes, for an offence, which, on board ash*, would not have been punished with more than a dozen lashes. At the same time, he confessed that he did not like to hear the solemnity of au oath should be resorted to in every trivial charge of drunken frolic, or being late on the parade. Sir W. W. WYNNE, in reference to one of the observations of the Chancellor of the Enhequer, said, that in the Militia, he knew of many Captains in regiments, who were neither 21 years of ege. mod had not been so much as two years in the service. Colonel FRANKLAND spoke very warmly against the Bill, as likely to breed great dissantions, and promote disputes and unhappiness amongst the men, who would be thus encouraged to threaten court ales with indictments for perjury if they gave evidence unfavourable to the accused. The pradice which the clause went to abolish had pre ',ailed for time immemorial, and without any corn-. plaint against it, from the reign of William 111. down to the present moment, though the Mutiny Bill was brought every year before the eyes of Par -1 liament. This was merely a question of specula tire good, offered to practical expinience, for whic reason he would give it his decided negative. Colonel STEW ART said, he could not oppose the clauses, on account of the manner in which Re , gimental Courts Martial proceeded, as they were now constituted. He then read, as part of his speech, a latter, in which these Courts Martial were described. He stated, that it was usual for the pre sident to take short notes of the most material parts of the evidence, while the other members of tlik court were chatting, or perhaps amusing themselves with wtiting or drawing on the slips of paper be , tore them. In his opinion, he said, these Courts Martial should always be composed of either five or • seven officers. _ . General STUART said, he was anxious that on account of the similarity of their names, his opinion should not be confounded with that of the Honoura ble Officer who spoke before him. and whose pro posal, of placing six or seven officers in these Courts Martial would be impradicable in places where troops were detached, sometimes at the distance of one hundred mites asunder. He was determined to vote against tile• Clauses. General Fl FZPA FRICK sail, that as it did not seem to meet the general sense of the House, and as it was argued that the Crown had a right to make what articles or regulations it pleased, he would let the matter rest there, and not press his Amendment to a division : though, after the de scription given by the Hon. Gentleman (Colonel Stewert) of how much depended on the Presidents of Regimental Courts Martial, who alone seemed to pay much attention to the evidence, he thought it hard that they should be under the age of twenty-one. As to the discretion remain ing in the Commanding Officer of choosing thca fittest Captains, he laid little stress upon it ; it seldom happened that the Commanding Officer instituted Regimental Courts Martial for the trial of trifling offences, as he had himself the power of send ing persons so offending to the black hole, or or dering them to some other suitable puni►hment. As to the existence of auy pratkical evils Attending the Flake, be said, that if he knew of any, as he con- CC th C( th th th tic RI th, NIUTINY BILL. On the Order of the day being read for the third reading of this Bill ; Sir ROBERT BUXTON adverted to the recent plimetice of conveying troops and baggage by the Navigable Canals to the great injury of the indivi duals concerned in these undertakings, and wished to knew whether it was the intention of the Go 'mutant to compensate them for their losses ? The SLCRETARY at WAR replied that he did not before apprehend any material inconve nience to arise from the conveyance of troops to the individuals alluded to, ►ut if it did occur, there could be no ohjettion to compensate them for it. He then brought up a Clause by way of Rider, trhich contained the Oath to be in future adminis tered to all Members serving on Regimen►al Courts Martial, and also another for swearing all the wit nesses who should give evidence before them. General FITZPATRICK then rose, and, after ad- vetting to his proposal on, a former day, that no person should be permitted to sit as President on a Regimental Court Martial who had not attained the age of tl years, said, that if he thought it could have the slightest tendency to weaken the discipline of the army, he would be the hut man who should think of proposing it. He did not say, that the usual punishments 'aided were more severe than necessary, for which reason, the Clause he should recommend, would, in its effests, rather serve to strengthen the powers of Regimental Courts Nlartial. As it must, however, be confessed that the punish ments were at times extremely rigid, the greater attention should be paid to have them carefully ad ministered. If the same gravity and dignity were infused into these Regimental, that aln•as•s ac c-impanied General Courts Martial, the men, finding the same impartial trial in the one, as in the other, would be naturally led to a more chearful compli ance with their decisions. In some foreign services, arid the Austrian in particular, the members of such Coatis Martial were taken from all ranks of the regiment down to the Non-Commissioned Officer is .d the Private. and a Court so cnastituted impress ned the mind of the soldier with the fairness and equity atilt proceediug. lie maintained that ip onr service the powers given to Regimcni al Courts Mar tial west beyond the objet for which they were ori ginally established, which the Mt itself stated to be for the trial of small °fences, which words cer tainly must imply that they would be limited to the infi&i•m of small punishments. They were ne ver designed to try mutiny, desertion, thefts, Ansi those other seriouscharaes which were now brought befote them; and dory h in U..A tb c intention of the A &bad been prevented. yet it it had been foreseen that such CAMS would have been brought before them, there could be no doubt that they would have been Mr. FULLER was against the clanseq, as tend ing unnecessarily to nzultsply 0414 and as spring. tainly snug Haply Win Lacy wawa r iimirzu to ran oath. This, therefore, appeared to him, not an Fittest Captains, he laid little stress un it ; snort time is win :alumni& a.. atm ••--- the inflidimi of small punishments. They were ne- i nnovat i on , b ut an impravement ; and, as to the it seldom happened that the Commanding po O ffi cer tax surely bore more exclusively on wade. th an t • ter designed to try mutiny, desertion, thefts, and those other proposal, that the Presidents should not be instituted Regimental Courts Martial for the trial of does on land. The fad is, we must be conten t other seriouscharites which were now lsrotiglit befote ender '2l years of age, it was Attendant with such trifling offences, as he had himself the power of send- take them as we can, striving always as !isn ot ! them; and tbmigh in U..A tbe intention of the Adlud difficulties, that he boped his lion. Friend did not in rsons so offending to the black hole, or or- posiible to make them counterbilance each ! been prevented. yet it it had been foreseen that ,tich CAMS would have been brought before them, there mean to press it. de n n g them to some other suitable punishment. As lie had no idea this tax w,ould have any Flits could be no doul,t that they would have been • Mr. FULLER was against the dames, as tend- to the existence of ally prical evils attending t.he effed on agriculture, and therefore hoped Get ins unnecessarily to multiply ° A dis, and as spring- paw . e, be said, that if he knew of any, as he con- hien would suffer the Bill to proceed. in order ,~• 7.7 • fessed he did not, be should much q u est i oftdodil. cretion or propriety of :,taring it in Parliament; a n d in what he proposed, he had. carefully !married against opening a door for any such discussion. Th e first clause was then agreed to, and added to the bill; and, on the question being put on the second clause -uthorising the administering of oaths as to the witnesses Sir JAMES PULTENEY said, he did n ot think this clause would be attended with any mate. rial inconvenience; but, considering how soon the present Mutiny Bill would expire, and that it mug undergo a discussion in the other House, he drari, ! .. ed whether there would be time to pass it v..ith those amendments. Sir JOHN .WIIOTTESLEI was adverse to the Bill, on account of the bad effeas to be apprehended from it ; amongst which, be mentioned th e en . tainty that, in all parts of theconntry where soldier ! may be tried by Regimental Courts Martial. upo n charges brought against them by the townsmen or inhabitants amongst whom they were quaiterP!, there would be found petty-fogging attorges • the watch to take advantage of the slig htest &err,. stance that could afford any ground whatever !-T menaces of indiaments, or aaual prosecutions per jut y. Both the clauses beingtadded to the Bill, it irmre diately passed, and was ordered to the Lords. DUTY ON HORSES Usr.D IN AORKI.II.TURI. The Order of the Day beam read f a the gecoll Rea• ling of the. Bill for imposing an Additional Duty on Horses 'twain Aviculture ; - Mr. PLUMhtER rose.to obleit Co it. He 404, his reason for doing u was, that the duty bore, sv , d. a very extraordinary degree of pressure, on tit farmer ; and, sconsequently, in the end. on th e linded interest. The farmers of this country, h e sSid, were by no means, that very opulent class of Men they had been falsely represented to be, mld!te was well convinced, the times were better for , :te farmer, when corn sold at Ss. or 9s. per bushel. u as in those in which it had reached the yes y h prices, at which it had been in the course of a few years last past. He had been told, that this ma wadi, as taxes generally do, fall on the consulates, btu who, he asked. are the consumers? The }thew is very dire&, said he; those who eat as such, it must fall with the greatest weight ea the lower and poorer orders of the community, and therefore he was averse from it. A Comm;trer abyss stairs had, in the cour se of last Session, been a kinz time employed to inquire i.ito the Most cffetinal means of reducing the price of corn, and, conse quently, of bread, and the result of that inquiry was, that it would be necessary to take every possihk s;ep towards the improvement of agriculture. The pro. sent tax, he was convinced, would very easteria4 impede the interests of agriculture, and therefore he Wila against it. He assured the Hons 2 that be ail not say this from any captious opposition to taxes, hut from a thorough convietion, in his own mind, that he was strongly impelled by his duty, to make the observations he had done. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE said, he believed the Hon. Gentleman, in what he had said, was; not aduated by any captious opposi tion to the Bill, but spoke from what he dezined fair objedion to the tax. He admitted that the tax would ulcinittely prove a kax on esinsumeoo, as taxes hi general did ; but then he contended; tha. the farmer would not•be the person most injured. It was impossible, he said, to lay taxes to a eery coia.- derable extent, in such a manner as that they would not apparently fall heavy, at first view, on some we clam of- the community spore than the rest; hut then it was to be remembered, that in process of tittle they operated.so as to, find a general level. xi Hon. Gentlemen wottlffetessider what the propor tion of this tax it on koniumption, they would tied that it Is by no means so heavy or oh:edionable seems to be imagined. The whole tax will amount to about 300;0001. and when it is considered how many hones' are employed in various ways, such ai. brewers deity's, waggons, de. etc. there cannot be mom:am two-thirds of horses kept for the .purpoe of agriculture taxed, and this would not amonat to Morethinloo,oool. When it is, therefore, cone demi, that the various articles consumed are not worth less than 1.50.000,0001. and you take into consideration the • proportion which 100,0001. bears to that, it mast be allowed, that the pressure o. the lower orders cannotbe mach. tie confessed. how cyer; that it • 'avould fall heavier on arable Farmer., that, it would on those who held grazing land ; bin. in devising taxes to answer the exigencies of a great and powerful country like this. it was impossible they should be laid so as to !Mar its an equal degree on every separate_ and distinct body of men. kle had, however, made several calculations as to the different counties, and . the rernh was that this -tax did not. amount to m‘ire man or less than three, where the land teas gosh ra arable, and therefore he Must take the prop , " osm. iastead of 5 to 3, to be ti to 1. that is 2 to 1. 0, 1000th part Tot arable,,and 500 for gnus lend, so that it cannot• at all meats amount to mote than a 500th parr of the assnelo cousurned ; and what ,would that be in the general II iduation of the . market ? Why not more th an lid. in quarter in wheat.• which shewed clearly .that the 41:ams and clamours against it are unfounded. Indeed , i f we are obliged to find produdive taxes be thought it was scarcely possible to produce one that bore with less pressure upon the lower orders of L:w people. As to. the other ohjedion of givihg a pre ference to the grass over the *arable farmer, wren will' at the same time to cncoutage the growth corn, he knew pettedly well how it applied ; he had given it the most mature cansideration, and I e could not conceive that it maid by any means 111 that effed which was apprehended. With re g: to its bearing hard on farmers, he admitted, th... .(L some instances a tax would tail particularly heavy. at the first view, on some one class ; but that was not to be 'avoided. What was the case of the la tax, the assessment on clerks, book-keepers, 13:sete't de. of persons in trade? That tie was only esti. mated at 200,0001. and he believed that in a ''ref short time it will amount to its full value; and the tax surely bore more exclusively on trade. than 6; 1 does on land. The fad is, we must be content rn take them as we can, striving always as mu eh possible to make them counterbalance eac h oth.e 5 . 1 lie had no idea this tax would have any pon•i" effed on agricolture, and therefore hoped G eese hien would suffer the Bill to Fogge d . i n or der di atom' fkal litht be gem Of the CO _, n y in in r lar. PL' gr. COK I _...,nrifittf n tiernathi J. II %;ould be •nt fewer as took pit ne e rf c s . t 'j t. tr h ° 2, : loi e l l ai r si nh lle c Y o tdd e b b at u ci " akbalerlicgudcltieldn:alet,grldil.ntyjinoettlit' et bread• . a true s a y cable, it a i nt o the ha tlsmsan, th places, 10 10,Tictlitta l Icre won juJices—t mon . In a gre,lt no such th bit it vnal r yght be counties the farms could be In these tArnly vW Sit V/ Right H in the Ie t fare rnountli (.1 laud lowance Amyl& • The in expla funds ilteruti( said As I which Commi Mr. should patios grazim greAtel pored as vial Mr. t;nn Fri e P .) " can TtS( the hi► m 4 14 be r