The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-06-07 00:00:00

. enlint the Stet Sudo% in spite of any nthnivatiou, us they lied it cosnpletely proved to them, that e election of -his successor was free and .icon. :lined. Thus, even es their spiritual head, they would reject the Seecreige Pontiff, were he to be appointed by the enemy . of their country. The woe declaratory of theirdesire to meet their Proteerantbrethres in die spirit of conciliation, and that the whole of their thins was for the inte grity of their Church, and the freedom-of its ai,. copilot. It was in these points of view that the re- solutions appeared to him; and he could by no mean. agree in the deductions drawn hum them by the Noble Lord (Clancarty). Neither could he coil cur With that Noble Lend, 1a asking, beforehand, what was to be doue in the Committee? or in think ing that mottling could -be. done. lie would not enter into hargsuis or barterings with the Irish Ca tholics; tat, without that, he was prepared to go into the Committee, and give them all that a liberal policy would suggest. (Hear, hear.) This ass the line of conduct most consistent with their Liodships dignified swim', end the mist consonant to equity and jn.uce. For, suppose a private person Caine to him from the country, with a claim to cone right on Inifarrn or estate, of which be alleged he was deprived, and asked him in the most proper man ner to take the matter into his comoderation; would he do well to hid Inns get out of his house—that he - believed he would rob it if he could, that he would stand ca his own claims, and desire him to do the •taine ? He earnestly recommemled to their Lord 'ships thee, not to act in this way, but consent to the appointinent of a Committee, to hear all that could be said on the claims of the Catholics. If the cz-e was so strong in the analogy of a private bushiess, which he had taken the liberty to state, -what must it be in the important concerns of a great • empire ?---Nfore important now than at soy former 'period I Much more vitally interesting than when Mr. Burke. a known friend to his country, apd one of its brightest ornittuents. wrote his celebrated let. ter, so forcibly recommending to the Govertimeut of the day, nut to uarrow the basis of their strength, by keeping three mallow, of the population of the country disfranchised mid shut out from the cow. TOGS enjoyment of the Coustoution ! It, at thht period, a cordial unioli was SO de+lnible• how much suwe so was it now ?—( y ea r. )—Why continue re otrietionsto irritate the minds of so great a masa of the population ? Whet the consequenoeof such a system might be, it was impossible to say. To warn was not to menace. Powerful as we were, eicto- VOUS sod great in our navel empire, still we were ytat to build on these thing. as everlasting found.- tthos. We ought to look to that which alone would make us inrulnerable—unity and coedial commu nion of interests throughout the couuiry.—, rear.) Why, indeed, a+ Mr. Burke asked, were we to ntaiutain a Bank of Discontent in the land ? He had again to repeat, that, on the same grounds as were so ably gated hit the letter In fore alluded to (Lord Greuville's) he would refuse to the Ca, lies, if that we what they now asked, comple:t nnrestrret-d Emancipation. He agreed most per fectly with that letter, on the subject of the Vera, but that was uo reason lie , no• grime itto the Committee, for which he was our the Noble Baron, were he pi' sent, would him self vote; for it was the duty of their Lordships to bear the propmations on all sides. The Noble Lord then entered into a vindication of his own consi.teucy of opinion on the Catholic Question, and alluded to the supposed opposition it was hint ed it would meet with in a certain quarter. Ile knew of no obstacle of this kind. The person at the Head of the State might instruct his 11 ,, rtant, what ass, or was not agree:vile to his opinions, but it did of follow that the Kole would reject a Bill poet I by his Parliament. Even if he should do sio, ti'at was no reason why thew Lordships should not do their duty to the wide extended-empire, by gran ing, as fur as lay in their power, the claims of the C itholics, at the sauce time taking due care to provide, in an ample manner, for the security of their own establishments and the civil government of the bind. By this means, peace and prosperity would flourish in the lend—the Catholic kondy, in general, would be satisfied ; and, if the restrictions they found themselves bouud to toilsome, were dine lished by the few whose interests they affected. they must appeal from their eumplaints or mur murs to their own emiscienees, for the comoation of having faithfully discharged their duty. Lord Etooe, in a matter of such extreme impor tance as the question now agitated, felt it to be his ditty thus early au the discussion to stand for ward. in order to prevail an those Noble Lords who supported the claims of the petitioners, to tell him what they meant to do in the Committee, for which it was their intention to vote. For himself, in or ant of a Committee, he could never consent to grant privileges to the extent of those demanded in err prayer of these petitions. He was too ten sible of the blessings of civil and religious liberty. which the country enjoyed. to risk them on a spe culation, of which no one would inform him what were the grounds. From the expression of these opinions he was not to be deterred, and he would continue to support theProtestantCh urch bylaw este blished, though it might draw on him the epithets of a bigot or • monk. He did not mean to say hut that a proposition might be made by the Catholics dallier ring of the most earnest attention of Govern ment. But when it was asked to remove those aa ereel bulwarks and safeguards of the Constitution established in 1688, by a revolution which seated a Protestant Prince on the throne, and declared that all his successor* should be Protestants—which established a Protestant Government, cis il and re ligious—he dill think it but reasonable to inquire before they went into the Committee, what it was intended to substitute in the room of these sacred outworks and bulwarks of the Constitution. thus asked to he removed?—At present they knew not but what one person proposed, another would not consent to: they knew not what the Petitioners would be pleased to accept, and ought they, under these circumstances, to go into a Committee, to consider what they might offer to those who might reject all the bonne they could propose? With regard to the letter of the Noble Baron (Grenville, for whom he eonld truly say he felt the utmost personal respect,) which might he referreil to. a+ if it lay on the table, he drew from it this direct assertion, that security ought to he taken against the denser liming from the in aovatioa now proposed. It aWo sheered that those who 'nail heretofore supported the claims of the catholic*, had entertained the opinion that they would consent to concede the veto, whenerir the priv i leges they petitioned for were offered them on these tenus. As for this veto, he considered it as absolutely nothing; but what would have been the consequence, if they had Lone into a Commit. tee, under these impressions, as they would do utiw, uuless they came to a perfect understanding be forehand on the subject ? The consequenci would have been, that cootiug out of the Committee. they would have offered the Catholics what they neither eonfd ndr would accept. He was not overcharging the case by the use of this language. They neither would aloe could, consistently with the come:len lieus discharge of their religions duty, accept of these proffered terms; and if they did accept of thein, they would be worse subjects than if they refused diein. For dishonest men could not be good subject.. Ile begged not to be understood to hold the idea that any man ought to be incapacitated front civil rights on account of religious opinions, but the penal enactments against the Catholics were framed as a guard against the political consequences necessarily connected with that faith which ackno,dedged • foreign supreme au thority—(Hear, heor).—lie did out know how to descrioe what they were to go into the Com mittee for. All the explanation that he had yet been able to obtain was upon the point of the Veto, in which they were aware only of this, that if they offered concession on that principle. it would not he received. He protested against this species of par. liainentary proceeding. The measures now proposed were ma direct contradiction to what their ancestors had supposed to be the Constitution —whether rightly or not he would not take upon him to de cide. They not only affected the claims of the Catholics, but they would alter every religious in. stitution in the country. They would change the situation of the Church of England us much as the situation of the Catholic Church. Ile did not mean to say that ilnproveusents might not be made, or that the Catholics ought not des..rve is better situatiou than they were now placed in. But this could not induce him to submit to be placed in a room to speculate ou propositions of which all they knew at present was, that the ouly one on which any explanation was given, could not be agreed upon.— He never could consent on such ground. to tam per with the actual state of happiness the country enjoyed—a an of happiness from which the Irish Catholics wet, not excluded--(/rear, heard— .thd which, fur a century and a half, had rendered us the envy of the world—.A state of happiness in which the whole country participated, arising from our civil and religious institutions, and greater than was enjoyed by all the world together—(Uenr. Aear.i —tie would not interfere with this in the dark, or into a Committee, i n w h ic h, f or aug h t he yet klew,, propositions might be made, which would reader the Protestants, in it few months, us much the objects of commiseration to the Noble Earl (Donoughtnore) as the Catholics were at prevent. Lord HOLLAND said, that were the petitioners obscure and mean individuals, instead of being • great body of one-fourth of our population, still the grievance. they complained of were so great, that he must consider it as becoming the wiadoin stud dignity of their Lordships to take them into consideration. Again. were these grievances ima ginary, and such as could not properly be made the subject of complaint, yet the petitions, as tweaking the sentiments of font millions of their .jrcta, who took their share in the sup port of ! h • einpire as it stood, it would be becoming and prudent in them to take into their consideration. But when lie considered them in both points of view, as coin Mauling of great grievances, entailed upon a fourth of the population of the empire, and asking o:.ly that to which he contended they had a most perfeet right, the. enjoyment of the constitution of the country they assisted to defend apd support, h e cult not but feel astonishment at any resistance hi in.: off -31 to the et:min:moll of these claims. He Dever guild 'Mow that the Petitioners were asking say thing as a boon; they were demanding their real and indefeasible rights,and he would no t hear it asked in the Hous e , het before going into e Committee they should declare what it was they wanted.—The Noble and Learned Lord had stated the happiness and security enjoyed in this country. He agreed with him that they were more than 'illy other country could boast, but he could Dot assent to the assertion, that the Catholic body could be included in that description, or had, for the century :and a half, noticed by the Noble Lord, partaken of these blessings.—During all that time. they had been liable to the severest peual sta. tines ever enacted, which lee could not yet think of without blushing for them. as a disgrace to his con:it ,- . It was a disgrace, that any branch of timer enacted in the reign of Weill Anne should yet remain on the statute-books. As fur those which had been repealed in the late and present reigns, called concessions, he would not ackrese ledge them as boons, but the restoration of the Cr. tholics to their just and natural rights. Even now, they had much to complain of. and justice de manded that their prayer Arndt' he granted. At the same tints while he voted f or go i ng i nto t h e Committee. he was ready to agree to the Imposition o r any restraints, which the scruples or leers of some might deem to be requisite. for the security of the Protestant Establishment. He was sur prised that the course proposed could be objected to. To go into a Committee was the usual par liamentary mode of proceeding. A complaint was made of exclusion. and the Committee would in quire into the grounds of this complaint. He had heard it said, though not this night, that the dig qualifications and grievances of the Catholics af fected only a few persons; and, therefore, there slid not exist so pressing • call for emancipation.— While he felt the utmost horror and disgust et the old penal code, he could not help saying, that. to a feeling and just mind, most galling rid degrading restrictions did even flow exist. It was not a true principle, that, being shut out from high Itations, from the Senate, and from command its the Army and Navy, hurt only the few who,. from their rank and talents, might look op to these stations. The galling restriction spread far and wide, and ens sensibly felt in the utmost ramie -stir'''. of society. The saute principle which caused the love of coun try eperated this respect. An Englishman, a Imitated jests hence, would feel triumph aid ex ultation in reading the history of the gallentinte ploits of St. Vinceut. or tielsom not loosuee•they added to the security of the country, but reflected ft lustre upoii them as itativeti of the saute country. What then must be the feelings of those who be longed toe class iii which •no heroes were to he found, and 011 which no lustre war permitted to shine? Inch feeltila were admirably depicted by that great master of the human mind, fife immortal Shakespeare, which he could not repeat, but the bare mention of it would recall the passage to their memories. It described it as possible to hear being steeped in poverty to the very lips, or all the evils that huinanity was subject to, but not the idea of being set up as a figure to be pointed at by the slow and moving finger of scorn. The Noble Earl . on the other side (Lord Claticarty) had ga thered opinions from obscure writings. and argued on them as if they were the decided opinions of the general Catholic Body. Among these was time story of the exconiinuoication of the shoe maker, at Ballyshantion. If there was an error of this kind, it sal not fair to Chargu it 'yllErally on the Catholic Church. Th e i r owu Ch urc h could not stand alpinist so uncharitable a coarse of argu ment; and it was not fair or just to urge against a whole body what was done by a single individual. His Lordship repeated the story, aod contended that it did nut support the inference drawl' from it by Lord Clancarty. Su epowt• member of a deb was black-hulled, and thereby lost his character and livelihood ; it might happen, that if his dia meter was improperly taken away, a ju'y would give a verdict fur damages in his favour. but it dad not follow that all, his fellow-clubmen were on that account to be excluded from bciei qualified to sit in Parliament. Much had been said by the Noble Lord, learned in the law, of encroaching upon the bulwarks and safeguards of our Consti tution. Dill the Noble Lord mean to state, that our Constitution was founded on so narrow a basis, that it could not exist without exclusions? How could he, learned as lie was in the law. contend thst these penal enactments were fundamental parts of Constitution, not to be trenched upon? Why, if so, was it not told to the Irish Parliament at the period of the Uuiou? Why were they nut informed of these fundamental bulwarks against their claims, rather than deluded with the hope tit it these claims would meet with consideration and support 111 the United Parliament? It WAY Out then understood that such radical objections ex isted, or why were they deceived with the idea of having inadmissible claims, because hostile to the fundamental law of the Constitution, dis cussed. No man entertained It higher opinion of the Revolution of Itise than lie did, but be would not put his frith in that standard alone. The country enjoyed a Constitution, long before that period, and many wise laws were passed from the tune of Edward 111. when the (tarnish super stitions prevailed in the country. He supposed some future Learned Lord might cite the Irish Union as an acknowledgment of this fundamental principle, and, in so doing, he would be 113 well founded as the Learned Lord now was in citing the time of the Revolutioo. No more disgraceful breach of the treaties of Newry and Limerick could ever be committed, than the passing of the Test and Corporation Laws. These chewed, that no such fundamental principle existed for .o s ears together, as was assumed by the Learned Lord to have existed for such a length of time. This wad further shewn by the Restoration, which was founded in complete toleration, and by the laws of exclusion being !nosed from wine to time. At the Union of Scotland they were rejected, and therefoic it could not he said, that an uniform sys tem had existed. Nay, this celebrated bulwark had nut elided in Ireland for several years past, for the Test Act wini unknown in that country. The Noble Lord said. that the objection did not rest on the religious upiuions of the Catholics, but on the politieal principles connected with it. He was not uncharitable enough to draw such a con clusion. They denied the supremacy of tine Pope in temporal matters. and. he maintained, ought to be as much trusted on their oath of allegiance as any other class of men its the empire. This oath was a sufficient pledge for their fidelity to the state, and the security of the established Go vernment. It was binding on excisemen, aod held sufficieut for them ; and why was not the same credit to be put in it when taken by men of education, of enlightened minds and talent ?—He did not mean to say that its seasons of imminent danger it might not be light to disable the enemies of the State. but that a fundamental principle of exclusion could not be good —The Noble Lord concluded with enumerating the high authorities in favour of Catholic Einancipation, Mr. Burke, Mr. Pitt, Mr. Fos. and Mr. Grattan, to whose public principles, eloqueuce, and ability, he paid the highest complimehts, and expressed a fervent hope that he would live to see his favourite object accam pl sued, gist. the death-blow to intolerance, as h e h a d before done to tyranny and oppression. The Duke of Noßrot.it supported the motion. Ile feared there was too much truth in what a No tate Lord (Chinearty) .01111; but yet the House ought to take into their consideration the claims of four millions of people, who only asked to be ad. mitted to the same privileges as were enjoyed by other Christians under the same Government. As for the story of the excommunication, all churches had a similar power. and the same practice existed in the Protestant Church. A Noble and Learued Lord wished them to state what they would propose iii the Committee. They would propose to offer the Catholic. that participation of the Constitution which was consistent with their own security— (Heer. hear). His Grace then Noticed the incon eistencies of the existing laws, as affecting the Ca tholics, and earnestly recommeoded conciliation to wards them, as essential to the happiness and secu rity of the empire* The Earl of BUCllNCillanslitat defended the Parliamesit of Ireland and his own conduct in op mating the Petitions of the Catholics. A Noble laird had said that the Grand Juries and the Cor poratiou of Dublin had mitered tato certain resole ., lions against extend 11,7, the elective franobiee to them ; but though this fact was true, it was not true that the Gosernroent was concerned in such resolutions. The mistake Might naturally enough ' hart Oriel% from the eonnectiou which WWI known to sithaint between mammy members of the Grand Juries sad of the Adissitiistrition. Ile maintaiaed that after this privilege was granted to thei r ,teal' of being mere mottled, the Catholic, came still mule uoreamoniible in tioir denial He complimented the Catholic Biottop v , t o , 'undid wanner in which they hati come fon and expressed their sentiments. Coutpl)ll,,, Site present motion would, he thought, 6; posiog the principles estahlialted at the Ittiolut and throwing such a firebrand *mono the iw o as would prodnce the worst of cuutterimpue„, • tinght remember how general the.cry of .• pery" had become. at a particular perio•J ; a which he acquitted the Government of havin g ghosted. Lord float scoot' thought it would he pros live of the worst Conseiguencea, to excite ixrp ti‘l must he disappointed. In other countrie s th e pointinent of liiihrips aas by the Holy See, m u saw uir redunn In think that it would he oilier in Helmut. lie therefore objected to the pu, in the present instance, though he wao froou l to the of the Catholie claims. lie (li med such an impression going forth, as ►hat door eta for ever shut against them. The hil l *ion that Ought to go forth was, that the Ln. which they now held was so far from cumill t and good will, as - to riperate against the c , iin ai cation of those privileges, which, at a li i period, and under different dispoeitio..s, flu- ) tu expect. Ile insisted much ou the ntea-i % temperance and conciliation, upon the part ef Catholic•, moil was confident, that if such a .0 Was pursued, it would procure for them thaw , advantages which it was their oliject toattoiu. Lord Us DVwsT•NYlt.l.li said a few words very low toile of voice, which we multnuaoci ti in opposition to the motion. Lord °KEY expressed his reluctance at tree Dog upon their Lordshipa' attention at so la: hour. particularly after the able and eloq es i. le personal motives. brat prlueipally by his dutch' sotpluropil the unanswered. dr A feh i notice , s Noble "N in d i o tt ei :v i eifb: had b ee n ii4ennen;d: Grenville) m r i 4r::" a l e I t a ottitfdrrehfut:s.'iPtiggli absent e t b o n a : g a' de e e which they must all regret, upon such au wear He was authorised to express.the deep concert perienced upon the part of his Noble F, himself, benig unable to be present at discussion of a measure. perhaps, involving salvation of the country. He wished lien offer a few words in defence of IL letter alli to by the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, and r ten by his Noble Friend. He regretted that Noble Friend was not there to defend it in pet lint, as lie was lint, he (Lord Gee)) del act t that lie could find any great difficulty in deletiate i it 111 1119 absence. He had no tient:l63n to ea ) , thnt there was not a principle avowed in that pro duction, that was Slot Coll.l9lent with Strict justice and true policy. The Noble Lord on the Wool sack hail said, that wl.at. he was willing to gout before, without condition, he was now OePirsurvf accompanying with tundi , lol, ; but he (Lord Grey) would appeal to the Flnieie whether this writ • statement of the . i o ns of his N o bl e Friend .'—/(deer. Arne, beac.,*He 'could appeal. whether, 1111 the contrary, he had not aws's looked •to the necessity of conditions? la 18(55 he had asserted that necessity, in 1808 he lad repeated that assertion, and attested upon ti:e es• pediency of a general view, in which all interns should be weighed, as well that of the ',runty of the Protestant Church, as of the ernanci:.un.. r of the Catholic Commuuity. He would ICI. tLe No. ble Lord On the Woolsack, that these were ',cite,'" liruitations, and that the inconsistency which he charged on his Noble Friend was out -apporable is argument. He agreed with the Noble Lord, that the Catholics had done much injury to tneir osa cause ; but though h e f e lt the difficulty aud dig& vautage under which they laboured, in etnc qteenee, still it did not deter luau from giving his vote for the present proposition. Fir ass happy, to observe, that since the publication oleo letter alluded to. a more conciliating spirit bid manifested itself, that the Resolutions of the Cs• thelics of Tipperary, Kildare, and other parts, ex pressed a wish to conic to a fair consideration of the subject, and to arrange such securities as were consistent with the principles of their faith. The present state of the country was such as required the adoption of this measure ; if, indeed, as the Noble Lord on the Woolsack had said, the restric tive laws against the Catholics constituted the hul weeks of the Constitution, then such a measure would lint be requisite ; but if the converse of this was true, if it was true that instead of contributing to its strength, they produced weakness, then might it be said with justice, that, upon every principle of true policy, and enlightened legislation, each a measure was expedient. The Noble Lord bad stated, frith all the gravity which belonged to his high situation, that the principle of restriction and limitation was according to the principles of the revolution. tie wished that the Noble Lord had candescent , . d t 3 offer some argument in support of a proirion questionable. Übe (Lord Grey) knew any thin; of the principles of the Revolution, they were ri:4- ciple4 of liberty mid tolerance-. The I.•'^ril.ie whirls he contended was, that no bu...• in her .1 email interfere in religion, without tyrant:) , awl oppression; that there were cases in. vitle: . h vernment might interfere, he allowed, but thri were cases in which political principles were involved, and it was towards the politrcal r i " "We', not towards the religious ones, ths: • taterfereace was directed. Rot the Noble Lord. in addition to the authority of the Re solution. quoted that of Lord Somers, iu which he was equally unhappy. L or d Somers irtir the friend of liberty, and had contended is Parliament, that nothing but a crime of the nio.t detestable nature should disqualify a man c se iv r i v l in in g iv h d is ege4 Kin an g dthe and Country. Nothing was de. terenmed at the Revolution for the exclusion of any class from the enjoymeut of the Conet.tntionc- - Those laws, it was true, were not repealed, there was Do rocogn , rance of their principle glory and sattsfactio t n i° C l g th o e nti cu uc ri t tra o rl she were admitted to all its pnver - les3 a .4 le came; n Gav ; o: e r i n p al le en w t a . s tau h i r s en ar d d ri s ord at i2i . i .tv ll : . . , came: ninny of them, distinguished 'Member I ',rah Houses of Prelistnent. Such rectum,. therefore, as those to which the Noble L.. bolt Bil hi Ci um !ns, to on o c , nrCi i i • liklUl,, Of 'oeliKthe turiatti to a lig %nil in a he Op. the oiuUtn r tact time rik? AU 1 , , of l• ; a 11 7 011 lug on. (to prod ue . Fu, laahaq that the ap. tutu and h tut theroi t t puito et it . : .outahle elt e iltitret th , . that t1:1 and inlpl ~ rail ingua t za fro eihat hat xitt' Ina(, in- alo 141 are im ) wi¢ht ton % ur * lite eri a euutt e 1 " old jut of Si. tht ordi art to lit trebpao 4otl lase as .loqueut eil at• yet co tty some thi tr.hmeat en 21044. • og their locate .1 of obs,uce MU ree:b.on, Ce ceth ex. Ti ap at the .iag the aw hero to ti• dtudd lid ant. that k.s penal, &DI et tint V, Pc to Ika%