The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-04-11 00:00:00

the topics which had been urged ost all , sides, from those who brought forward and supported this MO. tiou, there remained seaseehimrstere thehind ttren what was suffered to appear in open view. The Hon. Gentleman who brought it forward m ide it an accusatiou as:tit-Ist Lord Melville, that he has ddne every thing in his power to shew his respell for t and to acquiesce in. and bow to the opinion of the House, and that he deserves therefore to be followed up with severity. He 4-,lintight this mode of argument was the direct reverse of what it ought to be, and • Renew himself the House would be of the same opinion. The Hon. Gentleman had also particularly addressed him, and asked whether he had yet dis missed Mr. 'Trotter? He had, he said, eeplathed hitnailf on this stthjea the other night, and had in formed the House that he had not then dismissed Alt. Trotter, because he thought it would be highly urjuet to du so while this tneasure was pending. He Was happy to think that odser opinions, for which he should ever entertain the highest respell, coincided with his own. and that they all agreed it would not have bee* fit or proper that he, who was at the head of an, office in which the person accused held a secondary- situation, should he the first to stigmatise him before the subjca was investigated, and thereby throw a great degree of odium on his charaeter, which might operate very injuriously against him, in the opinions of those before whom his conduc4 was to be tried. He did not, therefore, at that time dismiss him, but as soon a, the judgment of the House was known on that suhjea, he did so. He bad bowed with reverence and respect to their opinion and decision, and Mr. Trotter was no !eager Paymaster. The Right Honomnble Gentle man tvre adverted with great warmth to what had been urged the other night by Mr. G. Pnnsonby Mt this subj.-a; mid said, that it the Honourable and Learned Gentleman wets then present, he hoped be would some forward mid own, that if he then sisoke as a British lawyer—aftuated by British prin ciples, and British sentiments—the opinions he then delivered, and the harsh measures he recommended to he adopted, were eft el, tyrannical, and despotic. (Melee bit ricee.re ihe Mr sentences, th e Right Hee. ( iewilfrosan . c - p!..ed his right hand to fir.. eddy ow tie red blink ors the t ,hie, as to excir:r a rosietread era , of /lase! Ater ! ) A second question, he said, had been asked by the Hon. Gentle s man who made this metion : witether`Mt. Wilson Irma dismissed ? to which he had answered no. Mr. Wilson, he said, during the transadions alluded are stood in the situatimt of aging occasionally Ibi s and tieing the duty of, the Paymaster, and, as' such, he bed been obliged, in the course of perform ing that duty, to draw money on different occasions, as circumstances might sceptre. When called upon to answer before the Commissioners, it was natural for hire to consider, that he might subjca himself to the danger of pains and penalties, and therefore he refused to answer. No charge whatever of his having received any emolument or advantage from any money he hid thus drawn, or being in any manner implicated further in the transaftion, than what be bad stated. had ever been urged against him, and therefore, till this that he has done is determined by a legal tribunal to be an ad of criminality,. he should certainly retain him in the situation he had held. As to what the Hon. Gent. ha-,i hinted at, as to circumstances that wert mysterious, he could net conceive, but thought it extremely mysterious and incomprehensible to hear him attempt to make it appear that what Lord Melville had done as an all of humiliation, and to thew his respell fur the opinion of the House, should be deemed a mark of perverseness. He then observed, that from what had passed on this night, he thought it necessary to advert, to the pranke of the prin eiples of former periods ; and when the House ite collected the warmth, energy, and manly eloquence, with which the Noble Viscount exerted himself in defending the char Aden of two Noble Commanders (Earl St. Vincent and the present I. ird Grey, then bir C. Grey), when they were attacked in that House in I 795, by a motion for an inquiry into their conduct ; when they called to mind the;zeal lie testi lied to rescue them, from all imputation, and the eaultatioa with which he proposed and carried an address of thanks to them for their eminent services, they could not but be astonished to see with what extreme eagerness, at the close of his political career, Lord Mets ilk was art. mpted to be hunted down by the friends of Earl St. Vincent and his colleagues. Mr. GREY said, it was not his intention to have offered any observations to the House on the present occasion, bad it not been for the reproaches made by the Right Hon. Gentleman against the relatives of two Noble Lords (Grey and St. Vincent's), whose battles in that House Lord Melville was represented to have fought with such valour and success. He, as one of the relatives of a certain Noble Lord al luded to. muss disclaim any obligations on that score. The two Noble Lords had, indeed, been accused by an Hon. Gentleman; but all that they requestet!, all that they had occasion to tape& or wilds aa the hands of the House was justice, and they bad obtained it. Amongst the distinguished ser vices performed in the . course of the last war, theirs, perhaps, were the most singularly eminent. They were, however, accused of misconduct; and how did they meet that accusation ? Did they fly from trial ? Did they seek delay ? Had they recourse to any subterfuge? Did they claim the prateatnn of men in power? No; they met the charge man fully; they were defended, and, because their afeene were found more deserving of applause than-centures they were honourably acquitted But for that, he, on the patent those Noble Lords, must disclaim even the .acknowledgment of any obligation. land Melville at that time moved the counter resolutions, seek% reversed th ese a g ainst them, and gave t h em th e A r otthanks and • awn: of the House ; but he would ask the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) opposite to him, whether in the Antendmenr, which composed these Resolutions, the mover did not er rs the sense of the House upon the subjea ? So from admitting it to be any merit In Ministers, they appointed to the come and of arduous and important military 4 a press far fr that' teem, they would neglea nt ash run as they ,Ehuugiff best mmtibat IWiiectlthAttal witch success', with honour •td taailitivesrs aM glory and advantage th their e=l. The,ltight Belo. Gentleman therefore ap to him •ettre - rißly tpplicatiou. There was not, u 1110 lea i sivisitirity in' the two situations. The charges against Lord Melville were substantiated by a majority the most respea able, con.idering the high quarter from whence it came. He did not then recollect what the majori tywas on the other, but he well remembered that the minority was no more than Sixteen Havink been induced to say thus much in reference to the ill-judged and ill-timed provocation given him, he would now say, in reference to the sulijea mote im mediately before them, that it was not in his nature, nor, he believed, in that of his Hen. Friend (Mr. Whitbread), to cherish a personalresentment against any man, and he disclaimed having any against the Noble Lord who was the obje& of this Motion.— His lion. Friend had shown none of that bitterness which was the character of resentment, and, without any vindictive motives whatever, only submitted the propriety of following up what the House had al ready decided. For his own part, he thought it impossible for the House to stop here, and suffer the Resolutions to remain upon its Journals. The Right' Hon. Gent. who spoke last, without having recourse' to any argument, was by no means wanting in mis representation. His Hon. Friend did not, as was said, state the resignation of Lord Melville to be as aggravation or his offences, but that it was not fief &tet to satisfy the justice of the case. There eer- ' tainly could he no great merit in his resignation ; for were that. Noble Lard to have met them this day. as first Lord of the Admiralty, the charge would he upon the heads of His Majesty's Minis ters. The Right flan. Gentleman, however, seemed surprised that we should espea the resolutions of that kl• use to be a bar to Lord Melville's ever again siding any confidential situation; but, if such was the sentiment of His Majesty's Ministers upon the subjea, it surely afforded the strongest argument, why the House should have a seem ity fir his now being so employed, by concurring in the Address now proposed to them. Though Lord Melville had rroigned one of his situations, he was still a Privy Counsellor, and therefore the honour and consistency of the House required, that they , should take such measures as were most likely to produce his dismis sql from it. The Noble Lord had indeed taken care to secure to himself some places for life; but there were ethers which he only held at the will of the Crown ; and he asked, whether the honour of the I booze would allow him to retain for a while, and, after all his delinquency, these pensions s and emoluments? The charge by the Right Hon. Gentle man against his Hon. Friend (Mr. G. Ponsonby), behind him, of tyrannical and despotic doctrines, was perfeelly unfounded. His Hon. Friend has( stated, that it would be necessary to take measures for securing the appearance of the off nders, to answer the charges against them, and in that he was perfectly correl, and justified by all legal ana logy. In all cases, where a roan was accused of an offence, it provided, that he should be secured, to abide the issue ; but this was more than a simple accusation ; for Lord Melville and Mr. Trotter were already faund guilty, aril, after the Report of the Commissioners, neither of them should have been one moment longer suffered to continue in any place of trust. He concluded by observing, that as no thing had hitherto been said in opposition to the motion, which in any way could apply to the reason of the House, he was Oe:ermined to support it. Mr. G. PONSONBY—" I rise, Sir, in conse quence of the general allusion which the Right Ho nourable Gentleman has been pleased to make to me, and think it the more incumbent on me to de as the good opinion of the House of Commons, which has ever been dear to Imo is now doubly en deared, by the august and venerable elevation to which the character of this great assembly has, by its vote of Monday last, been justly raised, in the grateful estimation of its Constituents. The Right Hon. Gentleman was pleased to say, that, were 1 a British Lawyer, I never would have expressed such harsh and tyrannical opinions. I am, Sir, however, a little the more reconciled to these opinions, as a Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite me (the Master of the Ro is), a to s toned to preside in one of the higher tii weals of this country, with great honour to himself, and equal advantage to the public, and whose. setoiments on legal, as well as all other stilled', are constantly received by this House with tne greatest deference, did not, in that discussion, think them unworthy of his attention. In the estimation, however, of the Right Hon. Gentleman, I am no:, it seems, to be deemed as a Br tith Lawyer. Sir, I will oil that Right I lon. Gentleman, that 1 am not ashamed of my country, and, I hope, my country is not ashamed of me. If he sets so high and exclusive a value upon British blood, and every thing else that is British, I may, perhaps, be very little o'ljeetionableon that account; for, perhaps, I have as bo id British blood flowing in my veins, as can be boasted of by that Right Hosoerabie elentteMitt. - Thistle I have not had the talents that could have raised me at so early a period of life to so exalted and lucrative a station, yet, at this late period, he has been the 'first to in vest me with tl.e charadtcr of bring the advocate of tyranny and despot ern. By my having said, that the Right Hon. Gentleman's having continued Mr. Totter in office, must have proceeded from the conscious sense he had of that Gentleman's inno cen:e ; I do not consider myself to have advanced any thing irrational—tor surely he would not have aged in a very unconstitutional manner, it; while those proceedings were pending, and the report of the committee suspended over the head of ?dr. Trot ter, he had, for that interval at least, suspended him in the execution of a trust which he was charged with having so egregiously abused. Sir, with all the respell and 'reverence that I must bear for so yoting a man, id so high and confidential a situa tion, I should wish him to confine himself to what I Anay did say; for, much as I admire his wonder ful talents at so early an age, I assure him that I am not se ambitious as to wish that he should make speeches for me. To come now to the immediate question, I must confe‘s, that however right it may follow up the late resolutions by an address to Majesty, if I had the official and authentic seem that the resignation of Lord Melville would be ' of his pdhtical existence. I should be dispos acquieue in the suggestisto that this subjett . unfortunate in this Such at. ugh Lord Melville had now resigned his office, there is no security against his being again restored to it, for the Right Hon. Gent. would find no difficulty, by means of the press, to represent Lord Melville as an injured men, a vi rim to party pokes, that the charges were aggravated, that he had not a fair ti ial, that he was not heard in his own defence. Sm. and if these representations made any impres sion during the recess, the House need not be. sur. prised at' finding Lord Melvilleagain in office at the next meeting of Parliament. If any. roan of autho rity would undertake that Lord Melville would bow before the House of Parliament, retire from the po litical, and be heard of no more, I would not insist upon proceeding ; but hitherto he found no person willing to give any mch security. With re speet to the peculations, it surely was not to be ex pefted that die public money should be suffered to remain in the hands of the delinquents, and they not be called upon to refund : that is a thing which I, for one, never will agree to. I will make no such compromise; and, however tenderly I may be dis posed, in this instance, to treat the Noble Lord, with whom, at the same time, I never had the ho nour of exchanging a word in my life, I am inflexi bly determined to use every exertion in my power, that the money thus so illegally appropriated to the personal use of the delinquents shall be refunded to the public. IVith respell to the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) himself, though I wiU not prematurely bring, at this time, a dire& charge against him, yet I cannot avoid seeing that there is a serious charge of criminal laxity in the proceed ings of the Treasury upon the Report, and there fore must contend th at there should be an investiga tion into the conduit of the superior, as well as into that of the inferior officers." Mr. CANNING explained, that what he said in regard to the return of Lord Melville to office was, that it would not take place as long as the Resolu tions remained unrescinded. Mr. It. THORNTON stated, that a letter had been sent some time since, by Mr. Canning to the Bank of England, prohibiting the issue of any mo ney to Mr. Trotter or Mr. Wilson, without an older signed by himself, which had been striely com plied with. He also explained that, from the time when Lord Melville came into the office of Trea surer of the Navy, in 1786, down to the year 1793, no sums were issued from the Bank to the Paymaster without the purpose for which it was wanted being specified, bur since that time to the year 1803, a contrary practice had prevailed. He said he had been near twenty years a Member cf that House, and never in his lifs*ave a more painful vote than that which he gave in favour of the resolutions, because he thought he connived at those practices; but as there was no proof of his baying done so, from cor rupt motives, he was determined to vote against the present motion. Mr. BARHAM said, that when he accused two Noble Lords (St. Vincent and Grey) of misconduct in the West Indies, on a former occasion, he did it from the information of others, and not from any personal hostility, as they themselves knew, but in discharge of the most painful duty of his life. As to the present motion, he said, he should support it, hoping dirt a man, so stigmatised by the resolu tions et the House of Comi,Jos. would not be re tained in His Majesty's Privy Council. • Mr. BANKES said, that a:, he had not the ho nour of any personal acquaintance with the Hon. Mover of this measure, he could not presume to offer him his advice ; but if he may be so per mitted, he should recommend to him to withdraw his motion. and not press it at this time ; for the very same reasons which induced him .to support the resolutions, would now determine him to vote against the Address. It was, lie thought, a s:.l3i cient humiliation of Lord Melville, that he had been compelled to resign ; and his having done so, proba bly preceded any thing in the way of dismissal which might have been intended by Nis Majesty or I.is Mi nist He SA w no probability whatever that the No ble Lord could be restored to office while the enquiry WAS pending, and, therefore, he thought the motion WAS unnecessary. This was not the time for such a proceeding, as, perhaps, something or even an impeachment, might hereafter be the result of the enquiry. He did not know that there was any precedent for such a proceeding, as, when discus sions took place for similar addresses against Sir Robert Walpole, Lord Ranelagh, and others, those persons were in office at the time, which was not the ease at present with Lord Melville. • Mr. WINDHAM observed, that he stood at pre sent in his usual predicament, in relation to the Hon... Gentleman who spoke last, fur they were scarcely ever on the same side, though they were fre quently on the same bench. if be thought that the ends of substantial justice should otherwise be answered, he had much rather that the present motion had not been brought forward, but as he now found it formally before him, he must, even in con sistency, support it. He thought. however, that due decorum to the former decision of the House requir ed that this should now pioceed, and particularly as some surprise seemed to be expressed at the opinion that the resolutions of themselves would exclude the return of Lord Melville to office If private motives of regard could be suffered, he should be inclined to adopt that mode which was thought the most lenient, but he found chit was not to be done with security to the objeet of the Resolutions. 11 was true, this was a corollary upon the Resolutions, hut the mean ing of that corollary was, that Lord Melville should remain out of office, and be excluded hum His Ma jesty's Council for ever, which objeet was no: com pletely satisfied by the process of al.: former :tel. Be that as it may, he must for one contend, that in the discussion of the former night, the House had the whole case substantially before them, othrrwi e Ire would not have agreed to the Resolutions, for it would then have been a determination on a case im perfeelly proved. He did not conceive diem to have then sated as it they were on a future occasion to be called upon to revise or rescind their own judgment. From that judgment it resulted that sentence had been pronounced upon Lord Melville, that he was not a fit per sou either to remain in office, or ever to nietual CO• , r ..inn s been leagued with ' t E b i e pi' m o t powerful; and against such a man and so poef. ft . fully supported, it became the d uty o f the .11 o ir Commons to take the most rational security it eoeld obtain, that the same thing should not happ en which did in the case of Lard George S ac k v ill e who, after having been dismissed from His Ms. jesty's service, by the sentence of a court martial, was afterwards placed in the high and iraporp se office of Secretary of State. The Gentlemen on the opposite side, while they recommend e d mo d eration, seemed very anxious also to deprecat e any th i ng of passion; but by the attitudes, gestures, rani; and fury of the Right Honourable Gentle man (41r. Canning) on the Treasury Bench, he seemed gate to have forgotten his own admonition, and ex hibited a passion of the most animated kind. As to limed'', he declared that he had no passion, no mo tive of any kind. but to do that which he thought he ought to do. lie wished the House of Commons not to relax in its discipline, not to tarnish its fall blown honours, not to spoil the gloss of those !nag nascent robes with which their late evaded had in vested them. The Horse should not en soon forget that it had undergone an honourable reformation in thepublic opinion; and though he should ever profess himself one of those who were determined always to reprobate regard being paid to popul ar clamour ; yet he could never cease to venerate public opinion, and to be highly sensible of its va lue. The distindion was wide between that sense of reform which public clamour might call for, and that honourable reformation which served to conci liate the good opinion of the public. One of the highest charges against Lord Melville was that his condua was such as must necessarily shock the opi nion of the public, and one of the highest orna ments of the I louse of Commons was, that by the respedable decision of the Chair they had iecalled it to themselves. Laying all corrupt motives on the part of that Noble Lord out of their minds, they must see that his Lordship had put the House of Commons in that situation that it could not avoid pronouncing a strong judgment uppn him, without renouncing all pretensions to the confidence of the public. The House was not now to consider itself merely in the situation of a court of justice, but found itself called upon to a@ on the more en larged principles both of law and jurisprudence. They were to condaa themselves without fear or favour, and to provide that the great (;corer and inluence which Lord Malvilie might ac quire by a restoration to offize, sh sold .oe, with the assistance of his nitmerous friends, itoo— •-ei with and paralyse all their future proceedings. Alter all, however, if he could have any suffi ient secu rity that Lord Melville should not be restored to office; and that such was to be the effea of the Re. solutions already voted, he should not obstinately press for a division on the present Motion. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER— " I rise, :air. merely for the purpose of expressing my sense and understanding of the present state of this subjeft, and not by any means to injure the m - tits of the motion which what 1 havenow to offer meal perhaps render uunecessaty ; I cannot but hope, that the House will have the same feeling on this sub jea, which was expressed in the conclusion of the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last. I confidently trust, that the generous senti ments of liberality and tenderness of sparing the leel:nys of the Noble Viscount, in so new and humiliating a situation, will be adopted. They will. I expea, be satisfied with hearing, that while the present resolutions appear upon the Jour nak of the House, all thoughts of Lord Mel ville's restoration to power or office must be totaliy at an end. If, however, in the subsequent course of the proc?edings, the House should be of a dif ferent opinion, and vote that the present resolutions should be rescinded, it must naturally follow, that the disqualification of t le Noble Lord will cea se, when the ch urges disappear but the only thing that excited my surprise was, that while these resolutions existed and other proceedings pending, such a motion as the present should have been thought necessary, for surely, under the prese.ecir cunistances, it would be impossible lbr any Minister to advise f lit Majesty to cenfsr any employment upon the Noble Visc stmt. The only d.fLa-ence be tween us i 5, therefore, in the mode of following op the resolutions, for while they remain there. can be no difference as to the consequence.." Mr. FOX—" The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bankes) seems to me to have mistaken the proceedings on a former night, at least with regard to their import. He says, if the resolution now ornposed had been moved upon that occasion, he should hive been dis posed to vote for it as a carollary to that sropesi then, but that the state of the question fie; heen . al tered by what has taken place sieze that Now it must be in the recollection of the House, that the iti time ghtt that it w asi Hon. Gentleman n ma o n t su Pitt) opposite (Mr. tlmlid at the of great a magnitude at so late an hour of the night. In this recommendation I acquiesced, because I .10 not appitave of the prattler of introducing motions of importance at an unseasonable time, although I admit I may be as guilty of that prattles as any man. However, when I did so yield to the sug• gestion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, I did not e. - derstand him as hinting in the ramotest dcgl 't what has since passed, and making meth ea:m.1191)1)A agreement fur delaying the business. I did not ssy i.or insinua:e that the thistle would be satis` , ed with the resignation of Lord Melville. I did, no doubt, tsiamyethist in such a wa y Miifi.ters might l aig! mightndarender their duty it in the me o ; ; . to propose any measure for the removal of Lord Melville ; bet I Was not looking to any coarse whirls Lord Melville might chus: for himself. If thtii we hive lost the vote of the lion. Gentl e man, IL IS riot beanie we have varied our coodun, or on tfcstioa of f any yield t t hn o i a g n that aig. ha wo s a tc ad e n fac A. e . , ,H b . t a t ncec con senteded to the delay proposed by the Right Huo• Gentlemen (Mr. Pitt). Sir, with ragaid W , the speech of a flight M L Hun. emb e r opposite (Mr. Cat s• at is so weak and irrelevant, I can sc arc 7 consider it as wen notice. It looks a; if the p! 4 .4. 7 Mr. CANNING rose and said. that he could sot hap feeling, notwithstanding the variety of profes. sions that were nude as to the subjeEt now under r f"41111""""1 .III"lifraill""a"""r"7""1"ir - eonsictetßtion of the House, that, in the midst of important military enterpcius, men profesuing dif- be to hil ferences with them in political opinions, that he His Maj should cencure it to be tine of the severest ani most city that heinous charges that could be brought against any the end Ittinistotc, to rah that, os account of political differ- ed to a • • • . s . /,..-; - _,. ' • - - W for u h a it lon hi g y But I cannot so be employed hereafter. . * The Howe must Is air " s t makiot be presseil „say farther. A •ea • account for Me great anziett prevailing upon that Lord Melville was a maa who had . he . y tLis 1514 odtheither "Side of the Houtc, pehen I succession of years, filled situations of great so uk . D. i i s c olted that, in Ibis Adrinistration pf the Right .dour and asthonty; that he b ; d means of beams_ Iy Hon. Gent. ( Mr. Pitt), it has not been a very unpre- ing the most extensive patronage si u cedented thing for persons to be struck off the List commas& in-the land; that eas.ussmaded.h r A fis of Privy Counsellors, against whom there were no most numerous friends and relations; and ;het he F le such resolutions as these now before us. Though had long, by the closest ties of friendship, aw l " '