The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-03-25 00:00:00

4 IL i~~ 1 sleeps a poops tootled essegpego eherW i a l = mm ti ess ah 1 M woad put an sae the di enspeeMile• eel estaplained et. Mt. PEEL smeared tbe Ilesoerable Geationlee not eerapei hie attendee 4 bet, with all the green it, he weld not see that it was practicable the alematioe elapsed. He wee satisfied it world bosons ye eatkineflcient From tie great extent of the metropel Mil tee iiieesees betwdeo the several potter alloy, olio caravan be Rik No answer the popsies and to establish several. at. with . id/roles expense. He always b TB ..• conveyance of priaoners to end - 1... .. , :ss . ' • of the ordinary piddle swevtiances, u far as Si I woo dim read a first time, sad eedered so I. printed, and seed a owed HR time on Monday next. TEATENING LETTERS. Idr. PEEL moved the first reading of his Bill he the IMO& • mon tof the law valuing to the sending of Threatening Lonna.-- ,- Mead a first time and oidead to be printed ; and read a wood thee . Ile Me , wit. I I CLERGTABLE FELONIES. On she motion of Mr. PEEL, the Bill for defisieg the rights oF spites entices who receive pardons, and of convicts after &soft beesepunished for Clergyable Felonies, was read a arse timm all oared to be reed a second time on Monday nest. EAST INDIA AFFAIRS. Mr. aunts, in directing the attention of the Hosea to seine r sent occurrences in our bast Indian territories, said it woe to be regretted, notwithstanding the great importance of that '' tes du empire , th at is interests were so slightly considered, Be name so seldom Introduced to the notice of the House. then were few subjects to which their attention was so seldiste MM eats This might be accounted for in various ways : it =Oil be pJ the House was not in a situation, and on account of their re waitetwas from the scene was but little calculated to legislate sok eselifally for a colony placed at such a distance from this country as lodia. It might be thought the local Government of India was in epery.respeet better qeslifla to adopt measures likely to promote the • inu sedx of the Colony than *e could possibly be--thet Go. "cement was there fee the purpose of legislation; and however they sight be supposed to be there merely with the view of putting in fume measures adopted in this country, he believed it would be Mend that those individuals who had governed our Eait Indian possessions wi th the greatest success had, generally speaking, ori ginated their own measures, and acted upon their own views of the expediency of any panicular hue of conduct. Ile was not disposed so quarrel with this assumption of authority, when placed In com petent hands; on the contrary, he thought r.o persons could be • better judger of what was conducive to the interests of the Colony titan men of sufficient ability who were resident upon the spot. He cos aware that of late years the laws and regulations proposed by tee Governor in Council in India, and sent over for the purpose of • being submitted to the consideration of his Majesty's Ministers, Sive nndergone considerable alterations and been much modified In this counuy. Ile did not altogether 'approve of this principle; for be thought if they could select fit and proper persons to whose bends the government might be entrusted, then the less interference with the regulations they saw fit to adopt the better India would be &evened. But if the individuals sent out there in the capacity of Governors-General were incapable of performing their functions with the aid of the Council, it would be impossible to counteract die mischievous effect of their measures by any revision they might undergo in this country. As ling as the country continued quiet 1 and in the enjoyment of peace and tranquillity, and while the in habitants remained happy and contented, no interference .on the part of this country was desirable or necessary. But whenever a altar took place front that desirable situation of aff a i r s—when the pee * f became discontented, tranquillity destroyed, and a mutinous spy t manifested itself among the native troops of the country-- often, in short, such a change took place as he believed at that oriment had taken place, it became a question of consider :lois importance lo.• the House to examine the circumstances that attended a change so unfortunate, and consider the course pro ve; to be pursued in such a state of things. It was with that vow he had been induced to bring the present subject under the notice of the Houte. It had been his wish to wait till he ehastld, by a proper knowledge of the details, have been placed is a situation to bring the subject of the Burmese war clearly acd distinctly before the House. He believed he might say the same of many of his Honourable Friends. If they desisted from adverting to the subject, it was in consequence of their want 4,( due ir.foruiation. He would say, so meatire a mass of informa tan as that brought forward by his Majesty a Ministers relative to tie war now raging in India, had never before been laid upon the *bled that House. It might be that Ministers had communi• sated all they knew ; but if so they were themselves in an extraor dim* state of ignorance, considering the great importance of the He did not meats to accuse the Board of Control of hav ing back from the House any information possessed by itself; bat ° lt must repeat his surprise at the ignorance manifested by his MajOley's Ministers in the present instance. He for one was wait. tag Mitiously for some further information than that laid before the How by the Board of Control. lie would not, therefore, in the present dearth of information on the subject, allude further to the war than carrying on in our Indian territories. Incidentally he would say, that however the war might have begun, though it might have originated imprudently or injudiciously ; as it had commenced it should be brought to a successful and creditable ter mination. India had been favoured with the succesion of two or Gust very able Governors, and it only requited a continuation of their measures to secure and render permanent the advantages de rived to it by their exertions. It would be happy for this country as well as India if the latter could be reinstated in the situation in winch it had been left by the Marquis of Hastings at the termi. flaunts of his admieistration. That unfortunately was not the case. He (Mr. Hume) had hoped that the liberal principles at present predurninant,iand which had been so successfully adopted elsewhere, would have been extended to India. Had that been the cats, and had due employment been given to the capabilities of the country, its situation would have been very different to what it was at the present moment. Had such a course been taken India would have progressively advanced instead of retrograding as it had. Unless Government adopted speedy and decisive measures to remedy the errors that had been committed, he anticipated the most calamitous results. The situation of our Indian territories ass very peculiar, and, he was sorry to say, vory little known iii quarters where the most accurate information was to be expected. It contained an army composed of 160,000 native troops , while the number of the Eurupesn forces only amounted to 20,00. Along with this it was a vast and extensive country,tontaining an immense population of no man could say how many millions. (Hear.) Yes, such was the imperfection of our information on the subject of Indian affairs, that we were actually ignorant of the precise amount of the population. The census, commenced about 20 years ago, bad never been completed. However, various opinions had been broached upon the subject, and he considered himself as mak ing a very moderate estimate when he stated his belief that the po pulation of India amounted to between 80 and 90 millions. This vast population was broken into a variety of distinct masses; they differed in caste, religion, laws, and were subdivided into several separate states. It required no common talent in the man who should attempt to conduct the government of an empire so cit. cainstanced. Not three years had elapsed since peace reigned uni venally and uninterrupted over this vast continent ; the people were content, and looked up to the Government with the most complete coofideece. This state of things continued as long as the Marquis of Hastings remained Governor-General, and for a short time longer. It had now suffered the most disastrous change. He (Mr. Haire) was not desirlus of blaming the present Governor-Gensel (Lord Amherst); but he blamed those who sent out liord Amherst, ar.d placed him in a situation lie was incompetent to till. Lod Amherst was doubtless an amiable man in private life, and might be able to conduct the Government of India in a time of peace, and wider favourable circumstance~, with the assistance of his Council. Bet no man who knew any thing about the present state of India, and looked to the difficult situation of affairs in that quarter, could lay his band on his heart and say Lord Amherst was capable of settaining the government of the country. He (Mr. Hume) mein.' reined Um present Governor-General was wholly incapable of wield ing the energies of the country in a case of tercet and sudden enter. getter like the present. The proceedings ofthe last two years had verified his worst fears. Instead of the peace so universally peva. lent at the termination of Lord Hastings' adininiseades, Leed ' Amherst had plunged the empire into a rash and ii cos which, In whatever manse? it "ended, could never be with advantage to the East India Company. Admitting for a nest. meat, for the sake of argument, that the present was a fit, proper, and unavoidable war, he would ask, had the mode of conducting k been such as any loan connected with India, or at all acquainted teeth the state of things there, could for a moment sanction ? Every rr en who knew anything of the climate and seasons in that coml. sty mos: be aware how utterly impracticable it was to conduct nsi inert operations with any degree of success during the rainy season. If e spoke this, not theoretically or from the information of others, but from practical and personal observation. He had himself, when in India, witnessed the terrible effects of that season upon military forces ; it rendered time men wholly incapable of active service, and 'objected them to the most dreadful diseases, It had been the rule with all Governors-General to avoid exposing their troops to the effects of that unhealthy period of the year, which was never thought _ -'-'---- -- ------ The present °overawe- ad attempted to trams- , in the midst of the' /crest reprobation. Aa and he hoped a British orders, but they woe • to procure provides or use intended to be of head-quarters till the They were coesse. tions, and disease na anks. The mortality r great he could not :red upon such sub lineations they could col -e the loss very high ..)w that the result of had been to spread r before entertained. _ os effect upon the troops understood the native troops been a trivial mutiny in the tie honour of the native 'fested no disposition to. to the present time. e native troops stood did not mean to say ' there was a pout , and, in the pre . considered the Go-, unfortunate occurrence ; i 4 W I- ~r • 4i of foe the purpose of nilitary opt.sationa; The General, in defiance of all former example, had pert the troops from lffarrackpore to Rangoon it rainy season. Such a measure deserved the severe. attempt was made on the part of the army, and • V army . always would attempt to execute their order una•le to make any progress in the courtly to p brirg the enemy to action. For purpose fated, they might as well hare remained at het opor period of commencing the campaign. ' quently subjected to great sufferings arid pnvatio I totally enough arose and spread through the rant Qat maned was understood to be great—how g precisely say, for the press in India was fettered j ectst, and it was only from private conununicatit tea information. He had seen letters stating tl tr itdeed. It was sufficient for his purpose to knot the checks and defeats sustained by the army Its an alarm throughout the whole of India never I 'Milt 'tete of things could not fail to have its effi Vito were the sufferers. He had never understoc .s. be moUnouttly disposed. There had been a U t.'ear 1795, but generally speaking, to the bur ratips, it might be said that they had manifesto wards irsubordination in their conduct up to .ow, however, the case was altered, and the n 'sot , .cry ticklish ground indeed. He did •tss inwizq should mu be repressed, but t. ::hey of the punishment being 100 /tot are he thought it had been so. lie t :eroilmat wordy wrowerable for the norm s ; however, he wield grant that it was their duty to suppress the ma i tiny at say expense; but when it had subsided be did think a dlr. terent amuse ought to have been taken from that which bad been adopted. After the excited feelings of the moment were over and the mutiny had subsided, he thought matters should have been managed differently. Was it to be believed that in any part of the British empire, particularly in India, where we held nonunion of the country from the natives, the innocent were to be punished with the guilty It He was not aware of any act of injustice and ty ranny equal to the treatmeot offered to the °niters of the 47th re giment of native infantry. Daring the height of the mutiny three officers were appointed to attempt to put a stop to its progress. They called upon such of the troops as respected their duty and discipline to advance and declare their inteotion—every commis sioned aid non-commissioned officer in the ranks came forward and expressed their willingness to comply with the proposal. What was the treatment they received for their fidelity ?—Cuuld any excuse be devised for the conduct of the Governor-General, who, tour day" afterwards, Issued a general order, in which he declared, that as it was impossible the mutiny among the troops could have occurred without the coosent and privity of the officers. they (the officers) were therefore dinsniued the serving with disgrace I %Vas it not ridiculous to hear what followed ? —After these officers had been so dismissed with infamy, a Court of Inquiry was to be held, to inquire into their guilt or innocence; and it was said the Court would have the power of restoring such of the officers as were not culpable to their rank. Was this -o be tolerated, or were men capable of such injustice and imbecility fit to remain in the eituatMns they now occupied ? The general sense and feeling of the country were, that the Governor-General had lost the confi dence of every man in India, whether English or native. This was a lamentable state of things, but it was the nmural consequence of such a proceeding. Ile owed it to himself and his sense of duty, to call upon the House to ascertain whether Ministers had taken the peeper steps to remedy the mischief. (lieu.) An Hon. Gentleman cheered ; he should like to know how he would be able to support his " hear" to the public. He was prepared to prove the conduct of Government itself had led to the muuny among the native troops. Though desertions to an alarming extent had taken place, and murmurs were known to have arisen against the dangerous and difficult nature of the service, the Govern ment did not, as was its duty, anticipate the wants and dis satisfaction of the army by prompt and decided measures. The touplaints—the well-grounded complaints of the troops, were not redressed as they should have been. Such a crisis was mat the time for Government to adopt a harrow and niggardly policy with respect to the necessities of the forces. Their usual allowances had been repeatedly pared down and diminished. It had been the practice to supply the Smoys with cattle ;for the purpose of transporting their baggage. This was known to be necessary ; the troops would be wholly unfit fur action, were they to carry their baggage under the scorching climate of India. When the troops were ordered to march from Barrackpore for the south-eastern frontier, Govern ment had already bought up every species of carriage and convey ance for the use of the flotilla. He thought it particularly hard to refuse the Sepoys the necessary assistance to carry their baggage. (Hear.) They received money it was said, but he would 1113WCF, it was impossible for money to purchase the requisite means of con. veyance. (Hear.) So little did the Honourable Member who cheered (Mr. Wynn) know of India, that he appeared not to be aware of :his fact by his manner. But he (Mr. Hume) would tell him such was tievertheles the case. Ile was aware it was difficult sometimes in England for the army to procure proper convey ances for stores Ud baggage. What then must be the case in India ? The Government should have supplied the pecessary conveyances, iastead of giving the soldiers money, which was of no use to effect the object. The Hun. Member proceeded to say—highly as be prised the private character of Lord Amherst, he believed him iocompe tent to perform the duties of Governor of India.' 2 hat situation required an individual of the highest abilities, one capable of taking advantage of the varying circumstances of time and occasion. It required, too, that he possess the confidence of all persons, and sure he was that half the efficiency of the administration depended on the confidence reposed in it. The Government of Lord Amherst had lost that confidence,—froth that circumstance great disad vantage follows; it was owing to it that the present state of affairs was pregnant with the most pressing danger.— He wee anxious to see the documents fur which he intended moving, to know if any, and what reduction in the pay of the Sepoys had been recommended. lie wished too for them, that if Lord Amherst be guiltless he may be acquitted. He had intended to move for the papers connected with the mu tiny, but gave up the idea on hearing that they had not all arrived —that no accounts were received of the proceedings up to the clue of the sittings of the Committee. The despatches, however, of the Marquis of Hastings, respectiog the reorganisation of the army, and the answer thereto, he wished for, as he wanted to see how far the changes recommended were carried into effect. No incon. venience could result from giving these papers-ono danger could arise from it—in fact no danger could be so great as that which would follow the concealment of the facts. (Hear, hear.) Nothing was more likely to prove fatal to India than ignorance on the part of England as to its attain. The Hon. Gentleman after some further remarks moved for a copy of the military despatch of the year 1819 to the secret department of the East India Company, respecting the organisation of the army in India; and for a copy of the accusation sent thereto in 1823, and also for copies of despatches showing that the said organisation had been carried into effect. On the question being put from the Chair Mr. C. iFYNN said, that before he entered fully into the merit. of the question before the House he bagged to state its to one point of the Hon. Member's speech he entertained the most perfect coin. cidence of opinion—it aasas to the propriety of placing full coati dence in the Government of India. It vas necessary that great confidence be placed in the administration of a country of such mighty extent, containing so many millions of inhabitants, situs - ei too at such an immense distance from England. Ile again re peated, that he agreed with the Hon. Member that a large portion of discretion trust naturally be placed in the Government of India. Let the House look to the circumstances. The space of five months was consumed in the transmission of any despatch to this country requiring instructions on any head ; live months more elapsed before an answer reached India. There was naturally a further delay ere these instructions could be carried into effect. Let the House consider this, and must not they pronounce that man mad who was not prepared to leave much to the discretion of the Government there? (Hear, hear.) lie was glad to heat' the Rota .Slenmber avow the sentiment ; but at the same time must be amazed that he had not the same consideration towards the conduct of the officers then in India. He was surprised, he said, that he did not place confidence in them until some more full information was had on the subject, and until an opportunity was afforded Lord Amherst of stating the true nature of all the facts. He hMr. Wynn) must continue to repose confidence in him. The Committee appointed to inquire into the late Mutiny were sitting whets the last despatches were sent from India ; indeed, the most recent information was an account only five days after the Committee commenced their sit tinge. Such imperfect information as that it would be impolitic if not a positive injustice to lay before the House. That was his con viction ; on that conviction would he act, however anxious he might be, and however desirable it was the public should be set right and disabused of the erroneous notions they entertained as to the administration ofLordAmberst and the present state of affairs in India. Now to come to the mutiny of Barrackpore. Ile asked the Hon. Member what his object was in moving for the despatch of the Marquis of Hosting., and the answer to it in reference to that unfortunate affair. Why not move for every other despatch? Why not move for all military orders connected with India ? None of them had less connexion with the subject than the letter of Lord Hastings and the answer of the Company. Neither in the letter nor despatch was any the most remote allusion to the pay or allow ances to the Sepoys. Hear, hear.) They alluded solely to the European officers (hear. hear); they alluded merely to regulations ' respecting European officers, and the regulations introduced in con sequence had the effect of raising their pay in some instances and lowering it in other. Of thnse alterations no general complaint was made, and no discontent followed their adoption. A little grum. bling there certainly was from individuals. They murmured at the new regulations as they pressed on themselves; for, from the ar rangement with respect to the battalions of regiments, it so hap pened that the rank of a few individual officers was not so high as it would have been under the old system. The number of corn. plaints did not altogether exceed five ; but what he contended for was, that no general representation was made against them, that no dismount was engendered by them. For Isis own part, he could assure the House chat the alteration then adopted in the military system in India was productive of great good. It hastened the res. motion of officers, by shortening the period of service that entitlei them to superior rank. Another reason for not acceding to the Hon. Member's motion was, the great public inconvenience that must Insult from it ; it would expose the feelings of officers as to how they would be effected by the intended changes. Resides that, some of die arrangements were subsequently given up. Would it not be unfair then to lay before the House papers not having the slightest connexion with any thine in the preunt Milt of afftirs, and having recorded in them thw opinions of officers as to their indi vidual interests with respect to the statement of the lion. Member as to the privations endured by the Sepoys, to which privations he attributed the mutiny at Barrackpore ? In answer to that statement he oust say, that in Huth there was no privation—no allowance was stopped, no comfort taken away. Ile was free to admit there were complaints; that in consequence of the demand of Government for bullocks and carriages so for conveyances of stores to Boogonn, no mode of conveyance teas left theist for their baggage. When that representation was made, inquiry was instantly set on foot, said four thousand rupees granted to them to purchase cattle. An answer was returned that no cattle could be had, that all had been bought up by Government. In contradicsion to that statement the Right lion. Gentleman read a letter, setting forth, that when discontent first appeared among the troops ten bullocks were granted to each company for the conveyance of its baggage. It further appeared, from • statement of Sir Edward Paget, that at the time of the refusal to march the bullocks were actually within the lines of the 47th regiment. Now let the lion. Member for a moment conceive a regiment under such circumstances refusing to march when ordered, each man having at the time 4'3 rounds of ammuni tion; let him look to all thecircumstancca, and say if promptitude and decision were not called for. Must not the least show of fear or hesitation produce the worst consequences, and be destructive of all military discipline? Who um prepared to say that firing on them was not necessary ? The lion. Olt-tuber stated on the an thoritv of private letters there were 180 killed, but such an asser tion lowed the incorrect information furnishes' through such a source. And nsw that lie was on the subject of private latter, he would inform the Houle that he himself' read ova 41) of them, each differing from the other as to the :lumber killed, sane stating it to be over 400. But he did not speak of the matter lightly, lie hoped he never should be suspected of underrating the deprivation of human life ; all he contended for was the impolicy, he would add the impossibility, of doing anything in the present dearth of infor mation. (Hear, hear.) And suppose it should turn cut that many lino; were taken sway, was there no allowance to be nude for the al . THE BRITISH PRESS. excitemeat of the moment. The Hon. Member had been himself in arms, he would ask him if it were possible when men were called on to put down mutiny, when once let loose was it possible all at once to stop the slaughter, to check the effusion of blood ? If such were practicable it would be contrary to history, it would belie every mart's own experience. Then came the punishment afterwards. And can any man say that 11 were too many to make victims of ? May not the evidence have justified it? M iglu it not have appeared that these were rinkleaders ? Surely credit ought to be attached to those who were on the spot. It was idle to attempt correcting the judgment of three persons who were acquainted with the localities and immediate circumstances. So far was he convinced of this, that if all the evidence were laid before hint, if every particle of it were brought under his view, still be felt he could not be able to judge as well as the officers who had heard it. The Rt. Hon. Gent. after some further remarks, went on to say, that as to the punish ment of the Brahmins he should have been sorry to see men of their high rank subjected to the military punishment usually inflicted on European troops for similar oftences. Now, to come to the affair at Rangoon ; the question was not whether we were successful or not; the real question was, whether Rangoon was not, under all the circumstances, the most desirable quarter from which to make the attack. Lori Amherst was advised that the caption of that place was a thing much to be wished for before he determined on the selection. He had the best counsel ; he acted on the best advice : and that point of attack was particularly recommended. So far had he gone to obtain the most satisfactory information. that Major Campbell had actually sailed four times up the harbour, and was decidedly of opinion that the capture of Rangoon would do much effectually to cripple the necessary supply of provisions to the Bur mese troops, and make them give up sooner. When he (Mr. Wynn) said this. let him not be supposed as desirous of any acces sion of territory in India. (Hear, hear.) On tke contrary, he con ceived it would be highly detrimental to our interests, and therefore could not regard the extension of territory otherwise than as impo litic. (Hear, hear.) But no alternative was left to Lord Amherst ; he felt himself compelled to go to war ; he could not shrink from it without lowering the character of England. (Hear, hear.) And if that character should eye be unfortunately lowered in India, who was prepared to answer for tits consequences ? (Hear, hear.) However, that was not • time for discussing the propriety or int -1 propriety of going to war. %%enemr that question came regularly before the house, he would be ready with a defence of Lord Amherst. As to the peaceable and quiet attitude of affairs on that Nobleman's assuming the government of India, he would ' take that opportunity of observing, that if peace were to be had, he could hardly conceive how a person of such turn of mind as Lord Amherst would wantonly provoke war. Let the House see what the opinion of others was on that head. Lord 11l into was decidedly of opinion that an eruption with the Burmese may not be distant ; and most probably had success attended our arms in the Nepaul war, Lord Hastings would have been Involved in the Burmese war. That Nobleman, it was true, had got rid of it dexterously by sending back the letter. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) That suc ceeded once, but would it have done a second time ? Mr. HUME asked what about the reititutions of the native officers ? Mr. C. WYNN resumed. With respect to the restitution of the officers it was impossible to say what the circumstances war ranted ; it was not going too far to say, that it was impossible a mutiny could be going on without their knowing its nature—their close habits of intimacy with the troops twiddled the means of coming at information; they must, therefore, be guilty of gross ' negligence in not giving timely notice of it; for hip own part be was more inclined to attribute it to negligence than to a guilty con nection with the mutineers. In either case their conduct was retire -1 'tensible, and deserved dismissal ; they merited restitution of office, almost all of them, for a culpable inattention to their duty, as far as a participation in the guilt ; they either must nr ought to be cognisant of the proceedings. The Right lion. Gentleman went on to say, that it was Rot fair the House should reserve its opinion until some informatioo arrived from India, and concluded by expressing his belief, that with regard to all the private letters on the regulations of Lord Amherst, not one regulation excited greater disconteut or was the cause of so many letters, as the fact that lie, at the ft at ball given after his arrival in India, danced with the lady of the Commodore instead of the ladies of the senior merchants. (A laugh.) That single transgression of his excited towards him more hostility, and called down greater excitation on him, than any other act. (lieu, and a laugh.) Mr. ROBERTSON expressed his uneasiness at the present posture of affairs in India. Was it possible to be Indifferent to the state of that country, when it was considered that the Emperor of China may possibly, if we met with a reverse of fortune, come with a mighty army to dispossess us? And who could say that if things went on aii they were going, but India may soon be in a blue ? That consideration should weigh with the House ; it was not so much the loss of territory he valued as the lives that would be exposed there. The Hon. Gentleman made some further remarks, and said, that nothing was to be apprehended from the Burmese (as we unsterstoed). That poor harmless people had no means of injudeg us ; on a late occasion three companies of Sepoys defeated 11,000 of than. Colonel DAVIT S lemented the conduct pursued towards the the troops who had mutinied. The unfortunate people would, he was sure, Lare laid down their *ems if properly spoken to ; but when they had no expectation of it, artillery which had been designedly brought to bear on them was discharged ; the very idea of such cruelty was suffieWnt te make • man's blood boil in his veins (Hear, heir.) He had himself no means of personal ob servation. but he had spoken to many o ffi cers of experience in India and heard front them that there did hot breathe braver troops than the Sepoys. They were, if required, ready to brave any danger— to go even to the cannon's mouth ; but by the subsequent proceed. ings what were they ? The officers were branded with disaffection —they were characterised as unworthy of confidence, and dismissed with disgrace. Such conduct made hint blush for the British name. From these things we were well able to judge what Lord Amherst was capable of doing on other matters. He did not know whether his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) meant to persevere in his motion to a division; if he did he (Colonel Davies) should most certainly sup port him ; end he hoped that his Hon. Friend, whether successful or not, would follow up the motion of this night until the whole of these most extraordinary proceedings were thoroughly made known. Mr. FREMANTLE owned he was astonished at some of the observations which had been made by the Gsl'ant Officer who had just sat down. Considering the profession of that Gallant Colonel, considering his character and his experience, he (Mr. Fremantle) should have thought it impossible for him, as a military man, not to have perceived the absolute necessity which existed of putting down the mutiny at Barrackpore by the most prompt and decisive measures. And when that Gallant Officer spoke of tio remonstrance having been made with the men, and no warning having been given them, he (Mr. Fremantle) could not restrain his astonishmeht, be cause it was well known that a' that very moment a military i :quiry was going on, and it was not even attempted to put down the mutinous spirit which had broken out by having recourse to force, until every thing had been done to prevent those misguided men from going on and bringing ruin upon themselves. The Gallant Officer had indeed stated one thing which was most true. lie had said, that there was no army more able, none more sincerely attached to their commanding officers, none more faithfully brave in the encountering of the enemy, than the native troops of India. This truth had been testified to for these fifty years past by actions the most glorious, not only to the admiration of India and all Europe, but to every one who considered or felt for the interests of England throughout that extensive empire This mutiny, how ever, he would say, was one that required to be immediately sup pressed—a mutiny founded upon what ? Why upon an order for marching against the enemy. Ile was really astonished to hear the Gallant Officer state that the severity used towards men guilty of such insubordination on such a ground was too much. Ile (Mr. Fremantle) would affirm, that the severity was not too great ; tor did he indeed conceive any severity at all to have been exercised, inasmuch as that every effort had been previously made to induce those men to put down their arms. It had been objected that this money was but partial„ anti did not, therefore, demand such decisive measures for its sup. pression. But the danger was not merely that which arose from the insubordination of that particular regiment ; the danger con sisted in this, that so long as this mutinous spirit was allowed to exist, there was ground for apprehending its spreading throughout every regiment on Cat expedition. The men were told, that if they did not put down their arms, immediate efforts would be taken to compel them; it could not therefore be said that the artillery was ' bro refit upon them isehrsetalrend.wltitout ~Meg. If the Hon. I ientleman (Mr. Hume) had opened this debate with a spirit of fairness, and with a Vital only to inquiry, he (Mr. Fremantle) should have felt disposed to have entered further into the subject than he had done; but as the Hon. Member had made it a medium of hostility and attack upon the character of Honourable indivi duals, of whose conduct we had no authentic information, lie should decline doing so. The House of Commons was not in a situation to sit in judgment upon the conduct of Lord Amherst, or of any other of the authorities in India; he should therefore only apply him. self to one more point, which had been alluded to by that Hon. Member for Aberdeen. That Honourable Gentleman had spoken touch respecting the despatch of the Court of Directors inlft23, and had represented it to have contained orders for the reduction of the pay of the native troops. Now, he would distinctly state to the Hon.Geutleman, that so far from any diminution of any allowance, or the deprivation of any of the advantages or perquisites enjoyed by the native army of India, being directed by dust despatch, the whole of it applied exclusively to tits European corps, and that to the officers oily. It had reference to certain arrangements regard ing those officers, and he would, say that the principle which was observed in those arrangements, die recommendation of the Marquis of flutings himself was generally adorned ; in some instances, that recommendation was certainly departed front, but in the keeling principle they were adopted; and that principle was, to place the native and European soldiers upon an equal footing. That was the great object of those arrangements ; a difficult and delicate task to accomplish certainly, but one that was very desirable to be effected. This arrangement however, was oot meant to apply to the army of Bengal at the then present moment, but it was to be adopted whenever reliefs took place In no one instance had there been a remonstrance from any of the local govern ments of that country with regard to those military arrange ments. In justice to the East India Company, that with • view to carry this principle of equalising the army into effect, they had added to their expenses no less a sum than 200,0001. a-year. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the recent conduct of Lord Amherst, he would only observe, that so far from deserving con. denination for the course he had adopted, he (Mr. Fremantle) should be greatly disappointed, if the proceedings that were now taking place did not teed to a firmer bond of peace and of per manent tranquillity between the Empire and a!1 the other States of India. Colonel BA ILLIE connploioetl that the conduct of the Governor- General of India had been judged of without any autlientic infor mation before time Houses The defeat of the army under Lord I Amherst had not been without a parrallel. He could refer to the Nepaul war, when • mdst shaniefel defeat of • great part of our gallant army, under the come/nand of a nio.t able General, took place. Nor was the recent mutiny • solitary instance among the native troops of India. He had seen one or two mutinies in the army of India. Oct one occasion, about thirty years ago, the army was ordered hi embark, as it was considered necessary that 'they should go by sea; when the native troops were commanded to go on board they refused and mutinied ; and the consequence was, that they were put down by means fully as calamitous as had been scanned to at Barrackpore. The officers were degraded, the ' 15th regiment was ordered to be struck out of the list. and many of the men were punished. With regard to the punishment of the native officers by Lord Amherst, lie had no hesiterion ii say ing, from the knowledge of thirty years which be lied of India, that to mutiny could have occurred among the men without their know ledge, and they must have connived at it ; their punishment was therefore just, but that this punishment would be permanent he had great doubts. The officers and men in the native troops were most nearly reisted—many of the men were the children of the officers, who were chore who had been in the army for thirty or forty yeas*. With regard to the complaint of the Hon. Member, that several of die native officers who had been dismissed wets Brahinitne he (Mr. Fremantle) conceived the Hen. Gentleman to Ibe under sonic mistake. There were many Rajpoots and high I caste men certainly in the troops, but the Brahmins formed a very small proportion. lie bad great doubts whether the Lion. Member would find one Brahmin degraded, and on the roads, is bad been represented. But the whole of this information was; after all, merely private, and formed no fair ground for &bete. lie bad himself received various letter, in which the numbers of persons shot had been seated as variously. Same said they amounted to 480, others to 470, another stated to MO, and some as few as 100 men. As to the character of the Governor-General of India, whose conduct we at present knew nothing of, and which might be of the greatest service to this country at the moment that we were now called upon to stigmatise hint, he conceived it very unjust to that Nobleman to form our judgment upon it until fully and more authentic information was before us. Sir C. FORBES said, of the Governor-General's private charac ter he was ready to speak in the highest terms ; but he should not at the same time be deterred from giving expression to the opinions he entertained of that Nobleman's public conduct. Ile conunended the comfort of herd Amherst on the occasion mentioned by the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Wynn), in giving the Ladyof Commodore Hayes in precedence to the Ladles of the au error merchants. It was quite necessary to combat with that absurd feel. ing on the part of the merchants. He begged to state to the House; that lie had • letter. informing him that when the army were directed to march to Barrack pore they did so at a day's notice, without leaving • single man behind. They were then well sup plied with cooleys and cattle for their baggage, and indeed with every comfort belonging to an army. But what was the ca-e when they were ordered to march against the Burmese ? They were ordered to march with their baggage at their backs, and were bur. thened like so many porters. Their language was—we are not cooleys, and will not carry our cooking utensils at out backs. This, he contended, was the fact, although not officially stated. It had been said that this was only private information ; but how should we obtain information in the absence of the public prise, but through the medium of private correspondence? Ile would produce a letter which he had received from India by the last ar rivals. He observed the Honourable Member (Mr. Astell) smiled. It was true he had allowed the Honourable Member to read the letter. His Honourable Friend (Mr. Hume) bad stated, that he had received letters from medical men, military men, and com mercial men ; but his (Sir Charles Forbes's) letter was not from either of those classes—his was from a lady. (A laugh.) It was not certainly from the Lady of the Commodore, nor was it from ' either of those ladies who had complained of the conduct of Lard Amherst in giving her the precedence of them ; but it was from the wife of a gallant officer who was at Rangoon, fighting with the Burmese, and a more fearful enemy still—the climate of that pes tilent country. This letter was dated the 18th of November last. The lady says, " I think Lord Amherst must have enough at this moment upon his mind. Certainly it was a nervous and pitiful time for India. The public prints will have told you of the mutiny at Barrackpore, in the 47th native regiment." Now, unfortunately, the public prints did not tell us the whole of this. They told us indeed of the orders of Lord Amhtr,t, but not of the circumstances which could justify them. The letter proceeded—" It has been struck off the list in consequence. The artillery and two European regiments were brought out against the mutineers, and though every thing is quiet now, and it is that General Paget has quelled the dissatisfaction, yet it is apprehended that the spirit of discon tent has spread widely through the native troves, and these is DO knowing whether it will not break out somewhere else, where there are no European troops to put them down."—This was indeed the most fearful consequence to be apprehended. The fair writer then observed—" that the ridiculous system of economy so much in vogue now a days (much laughter) would not do in India, and one would have thought that:Governors in this country had had cape. rience enough of the folly of interfering with the natives on the Madras side, without cutting down their allowances for cooler' and carriage here. The Sepoys here are high caste men, and will not consent to carry their cooking utensils on their backs like labourers." It appeared to him (Sir Charles Forbes) that when it was found that the cattle had fallen short, and complaints were made, that some measures should have been takes to have supplied the Sepoys with more. It had been said, indeed, that 4.000 rupees had been issued to furnish this supply ; but if the Government of Bengal had of. fend a lee of rupees it would have been of no avail when there was no cattle to be obtained. We had been told that ten bullocks bad been supplied to each company. This was in direct opposition to all the letters which he had received ; and he would ask the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wynn) what was the nature of the au thority he had to speak on this subject? Why, from private letters. _ _ . _ Air. WN'NN—No, no; from the Commander-in-Chief. Sir C. FORBES—WeII, be it so. He would set against that letter those which he had received from men of character and in. formation, who were fully competent to speak correctly bn the sub. jetet. Ile now would advert to that part of the transaction which had been so ably and eloquently alluded to by the Gallant (Hiker (Colonel Davies)—he meant the cruel treatment of the men at Barrackpore. When these men had thrown down their arms where was the necessity of following them, hewing them down, and driving them into the river, during the whole of a forenoon ? In all the mutinies that had taken place (and one would suppose, by what had been said this night, that nothing was of snore common occurrence), where did ever such a thing happen before a. that which was acted towards those unfortunate men ? A mutiny at Madras occurred in the army under Sir Reginald Smith, when under orders to march ; and how did that able Officer act? Ile called the whole of the men out, and said to them," You shall niarch ; if you will not do so voluntarily I will make you." He then spoke to them in language suite& to their feelings and their habits ; he conversed with them on the Belly of their conduct, and appealed to their to. tions of honour ; the consequence was, the corps which had mu tinied were made ashamed of their conduct, the whole regiment gave a loud huzza, and immediately returned to their duty. ye was convinced, that if means such as these had been used with the troops et Barrackpore, the same result would have followed. He was satisfied, that if such men as Sir Reginald Smith and Sir John Malcolm had been at Barrackpore, no such calamities would have occurred as those which had happened there. Much had bean said regarding the effect of:example upon the other native troops ; but tAen the European troops should be taken into the Burmese nu , pire, they would then eee what were the feelings of the native troops in consequence of this harsh and cruel proceeding. They would find that this act would be revenged ; for much rather would those men have had their lives taken front them than have been so disgraced. There were no less than thirteen Brahmins in ' the regiment that had been struck off the list. Such men would have preferred death to the degradation that had been thus in. dieted on them. He considered this House and the country at large to be ton much disposed to shut their eyes to the real state of India. We had been called upon to defer the expression of our opinions until more official information had arrived. He was not for waiting to see the issue of all these measures before lie formed his opinion. lie found India to be in a most alarming and danger. ous state, and he would ask who had brought the country into that state? Hear, hear.) Was the man who had done so the most likely to get us met of it ? lie would say, no; and he now called upon his Ma: - ay's Ministers to recal Lord Amherst, and to select a man of talent, who possessed the confidence of the public both of England and of ITAL.., to conduit our affairs in that country. That Lord Amherst did possess either the one or the other he most positively denied. It might be said that he did by his per. sonal friends; but he (Sir C. Forbes) formed his judgment from the public feeling; and all the persons with whom he had ever spoken on India affairs declared their opinion to be, that Lord Amherst was not a fit and proper person to be Governor-General of that country. lie would challenge any of that Nobleman's friends to disprove h's assertion. It' he were stating anything that was wrong, let any Gentleman get up and say so. As no one did Fig , ' he should conclude that silence gave consent. (A laugh, and question, question.) We shall have the question by.and-by. It was not often that he troubled the House, but when he felt strongly on a subject, no power either in or out of that House should prevent hint from expressing hisopinions. With regard to the Burmese war he con-, sidered it to be a most disastrous one, and the sooner it was put an end to the better. It was, in his opinion, totally impossible for us to conquer the Burmese, and he was happy to hear the Right Ho. nourab'le Gentleman (51r. Wynne) disclaim all idea of conquest. But such was the passion of the Company's servants in India for acquisition, that every additional portion of territory they gained only made them anxious to get more, and sure he was, that not one itch of the Burmese country, if acquired, would be given up again. bone reason or other, either that it formed a better boundary, or some other pretence, would be found for the purpose of retaining it. He conceived the war to hare been the snore unadvised, and the proceedings atteed ing it argulug the greatest imbecillity on the part of the Govern°. General, and he therefore thought that the friends of Lard Amherst could not do his Lordship a greater favour titan by has ing him recalled. Col. BAILLIE explained. Sir J. SEBR IGH T.—He rose to protest against the conduct of the Honourable Baronet who had just addressed the House. He would ask the British House of Commons, whether the cha racter of the British Governor-General in India was to be called into question by the private letter of a lady. be the credit of tint lady what it might ? U'hen Lord Amherst's Admi nistration should be brought fairly to the test by official papers, then it might be proper, perhaps, to condemn hini, and ha, al. though that Nobleman's friend, would be as ready as any man to do justice towards the public. But was • lady a letter to be the ground of attack against the character of Lord Amherst? The Honourable Baronet had called upon the friends of Lord Amherst to get up and oppose his asset. tioos. He (Sir J.ticlaright) was that Wend; lie sain protested hail read to the House to-eight. '• Sir CHAIIIsES FORULS denied that lie formed him minion upon- sae setoctiljain.P.ti.tinnt.ehienctetisaratLerlioOnti.liart.tiu vaCsu rumor-Gene ral against t h G s heen letter. eral t ofHlndiain h y ad twenty other levers in his possessive. Aberdeen han, daring a long portion of that time, entertained some ho . u r rs he s e nd ij a A h l Y l' ;h i ts bi d l e i b t a o te r hot E be X gt ( t : n i . i n : n Q d L t l h E e ß- 11o F n o . r ni an te rr riZe thm. r fir of his friends with a long speech upon the affinity of Indian The speeches wneh he had heard were the most violent, the most uss. founded, and the most unjust attacks upon' the characters of pul men that ever he had lieteeed to. It was nst Lord Amherst alone who had b• en the object of those attacks, but of the whole Govern ment of It di* Bat he would just state what lied been the nr. ture of tie debate, in (seder rout those gentleenn who acre not nt o o f tion it be iti ti t tr i e t th i e thi rl e ou b se n . w Li it se wbeig..h t il i n , a nt t hinig the %notion which had been Li:ought spartesiia.; re al ly e p e rsona tat a dm t toi th iod e ,u) forward by the Honourable Member (Mr. linnie) had nothing w'intsoever to do with the conduct either of Lord Amherst or Sin Edward Paget. Was it for despinches of 1824 that that Hon. Member moved ? No, but for copies of the luilintry despatches from India, of t h e y ew 1819, at • period when that mosey was under the government of the Marquis of Hastings; and the ling M contrived very aeutrly to work the subject Into his motion, because thou despatches did allude to the reoreanineion of the litneal army, which that Noble Marquis recommended. But if he did so recommeod, in what way could- it be intreduced into a &vanish. non the Brahmins? The Hon. Member then asks for copies of the despatches of the year 1823. It was true that at that period Lord An:incest was in India; but what had his being the • to do with the question ? What had it in any war to do with the Burmese war ? When that Hon. Gentlemen (11r. flume) came forward with a motion, ceiling upon the Cover item to censure Lord Amherst, and coupled his motion with complimentary obses vations on that Noble Loral', ;niece character--observations which being so coupled, were no•hi ng wort h , h e should have battle m I that if there lad been goo] grounds for atia.kiug that Noble Lord and Sir Edward Paget, a formal motion should base been brought forward, aid an upponunity given to those dia. tingu•shed persona to vin4reate themselves; they certainly (met not to have been so spoken of, and so censured in die course of as informal and desultory debate. The Honourable 31E-lobes (Mr. flume) had stated that Lord Amherst never had the confidence al the people, either at home ornin India. Thin let the llooourable Member make this circumstance a matter on wine', to groans! this motion of compLnit. But suppose the Noble Lord had made a wrong decision, was this a reason why he ought to be held up to contempt, and trea t ed with obloquy bo h here an d a; a b roa d , b ecause he l oo k e d at some things in • different view from that of two Honourable Gentlemen. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) knew Lord Amherst, but le did not stand up in the 11, use to defend that Noble Lord. In justice to him he wo - Id not do so. when he was attackei on with a sulnect and in such • way But thin Noble Lord would knd many, aid many more able, ad vocates, if • illation tor censuring him were tot-many and Girl' , brought lodine the House. lie (the Chin it ellor of the Exchequer) felt assured that the Meuse would not c rider the motion of the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume as having a iy thing to do with the general administiatim of the Government in India (bear, bear), and could never consent to connect the letters lead Icy that lion. Member with any official proceedings that had there taken place. 111 r. BRIGH l' said, that every one who had paid any attention to the affairs of Ii 41.• n.ust be fully convinced that there was a very general di.conts at amo g the army of that cmintry, and that it was true that it had altruist niakee that great and important empire to 'its base. (Cries of n No.") A general order had been recently issued which declared that a great portion of its army win one state of mutiny, and that its Officers were not to be,trusted. He would ask, when this was the ease, and when the Covera.nent of that country was in manifest danger, was it not time to interfere, and was not the house fully .;usiti d in making some inquiry into the subject? The R {tit Hon.°, n (tI enhancellor of the Exchequer) had stated that Ilene facts had nothing to do with the motion be fore the House ; but he (Mr. Bright) thought it necessary to begnt with the beginning, and to seek fur the foundation of those disaffee tions and disturbances. The papers now moved for were the first moved for on the subject ; but he hoped this motion would be fol. lowed up by othere, until the matter was sifted to the bottom. Certain honourable Members bad stated that the Sepoy army was well affecte l --hut to him it appeared the contrary ; and he would put tt to any military man if he would not consider the document issued after the n.utiny at Barrackpoie as casting and itnpreper imputation on hien lie hoped the Hun. Member who had In. traduced this subject would press it to a division, and continue to bring forward motion upon motion until the matter were satis factorily explained. Mr. ASTELL sain,that he was not now called upon to enter into explanations or speculations on the cause of the mutiny at Barrack. pore; it was to hint sufficient to say, that the Court of Inquiry was still sitting, and to pray that the House would suspend its judg. ment until the result of that inquiry were made known in England. He would not either enter into die merits or demerits of Lord Ann bent ; for when the topic was fairly before the House as a forma motion, it would be time enough to defend him. But he tbougl t there had been no arguments brought forward by the Honourable Member (Mr. flume), to slimy that the papers beginning in 11119, and ending in 1323, were at all connected with thesubjett of the mutiny of the Sepoys. As one of the East India Director', he (Mr. Astell) would observe that every exertion had been made by the East India Company to meliorate the condition of the Sepoy officers. He did not think there was any reason why the papers inoeel for should be brought forward, but he saw many motors why they should not. He would therefore give the motion his de. Bided negative. Mr. F. PALMER said, that he believed the Honourable Mem ber who had last spoken bad been n Winfred on the subject rela tive to the titan - in nt of the Sepoy officers. He (Mr. Palmer) knew that they had been obliged to purchase and to pay dearly for many of their comforts. Ile knew, also, that the army of India was not in an effective state, and that taw ciders were sent to join them,who were totally unfit for service. He knew that the whole Indian eta. pine was in a state of jeopardy, and that some inquiry into the cause was loudly called for. Air. W WHAM, in opporieg the motion, observed, that he had frequently seen the highest commendations passed upon the native officers by the East India Company. Mr. TRA NT opposed the motion. Mr. WARRE said, that there did not appear to be any thing irregular, unparliamentary, or unfair in the motion of his Honour. able Friend (Mr. Runic), or inn to discussion arising out of it. When the Indian empire was in jeopardy, it was rot surprising, , but it was quite natural t' at topics not perhaps strictly relating to. the motion on the table should be entertained. To him i t was mat . - ter or astonishment that so many weeks had been suffered to pasi I without the introduction of this sunicen Leery man who knew any thing of the Made, character must be aware that when Semi. y .• were in a state of mutiny, and when British trocms had returned. frem battle, beaten, and but the skeleton of what they were, there. must be a tntural fear of losing that gigantic empire in which there were but 30,000 Europeans and 18 millions of natives. He did not then know on what grounds the Right Honourable Gentle. man (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could complain of the dia. cnnion of the question. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained. He did not complain of the discussion of the subject, he only complain en that the motion was made the ground of cotnolaint against the Governor-General and the whole Government of India. Mr. H 1:31E said, that the reports of all classes in India had stated, that there was a want of confidence in the conduct of Lord Amherst and the present Government of India. Before that Noble Lord commenced the duties of his office, the natives were loyal, and had every confidence in England ; a change, however, had taken , place and that change was not c o nfin e d to t h e natives, but extend ed to all. The Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had said that a motion of ensure ought to have been brought forward, but if he (Mr. flume) had done so. the nion.Baione:. below him (Sir n.Sebright) vaunt have said:" No; I cannot vote for such a motion until I have official documents." The way he had taken then was the only , way he consistently could. He knew that Lord .Imherst had a weak and inefficient Icouncil in every department; if this had not been the case, the eon. duct of that Noble Lord might have been different. He (Mr. Hume) had felt it his duty to lay the subject before the House, and Ino moons bad been brought forward to induce him to withdraw his motion. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House ctwided, when the nnothers Ft. r the Motion, 16.1 Againat it, 68.1 Majority againe the Mo. fon, 43. . GAME LAWS The House then resolved itself into N C tmmittre on the GUI • Last's Bill, an the motion of Mr. S. ‘VOSTLEY. . . Mr. LEWESTER opposed the first clause, on the ground tl at it umouraged poaching. Mr. WORTLEY said the Bill did not allow the sale of Game unless tin property in Game was given to the owner of the so 1. Sir J. SEBRIGHT recommended that Al encouragement should be given to persons qualified to kill Game, to give mfortna tions against those who were not legally entitled to do so. Mr. POYNTZ supported this Bill on the ground of the reasen shiniest of permitting persons who had pecuniary means to enjoy Game also to possess the legal means of having it. The principle that most deserved the encouragement of this House was, that the qualification should be removed which gave a monopoly of Game to persons merely possessed of manors. 11r. TENNYSON was not desirous of doing away altogether with the qualification clause, a s it would be an encouragement to every person to take a gun into hi: baud, and to kill game when and wherever he pleased. After a few words from Mr. S. WoaTLNY, Sir H. VIVIAN, and Mr. PALMER, the qualification clause, which gave free and unre strained permission to kill game, was carried without a division. Mr. S. IVORTLEY said, that it was his intention, in framing this Bill, that the right of game should be in the owner of the soil. The owner had a right to the rents and profits, and certainly to the profit of the game, er to the profit in other respects. This clause of the Bill involved a technical question of law, but it was pre pared by an eminent conveyancer, by whose cp.mon this part of the Bill had been regulated. Mr. J. MARTIN objected to the clause which took away the right of the property in game from the lessee and gave it to the landlord. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. S. Wortley) told him that this was not the effect c f the Bill; but he had an emMcnt legal opinion that such was the effect of the clause under dis cussion. Mr. BEN ETT was of opinion that the occupying tenant should not hare a right to the property in game.. Mr. S. 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