The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-05-22 00:00:00

1s t6t IVeehokly anti that of personal property in barge towns in the inbabitento of houses. He would leave it on these principlei, without alteration ; ex , tpt that, in counties, he would add copyhold pro perty, and give the copyholder, pro taste,. an e q u a l right to vote as was now possessed by freeholder's.— Property must, and would, have its weight, in spite t win e of philosophy or popular fury, and is any change that could be devised, that must be taken as !he foundation. But, whether he succeeded in °Staining the appointment of liCointnittste or not., or whether he got his plan adopted, he could see nu • objection to this part of it,, and to bring in a bill to eefranchise copyholdirs, aod give them, pro Nato, fie same rights in counties as freeholder*. In lo }mice's plecea he would leave the right of voting as our ancestors hie done—iii the inhabitants of Fo•tees plying tax* He wa. aware that his plan del n.,t posse,' nll tike facilities of theory ; but it was recommended by being of true English growth, and in baste, superstructure, and form, entirely according .to the Bullish Constitution. In the northern partiiu Scotland, there must be a greater innovation titan he had proposed for the South, or else she people of that country would not be re presetited. The hest mode he could think of edepting was to assimilate it to England, and give tile right of voting to freeholders in counties. He a. nOtt now return to the consideration of the dis fraaehisernent of decayed boroughs, and could see no constitutional objection to that measure. either front the practice of our ancestors or the dread of inoovation. The most important part of this • to, iii was, in how far the proprietors of these bermighs were citified to compensation upon a • taking place. He conceived that the pet). pie had a right to repossess themselves of their own property without granting any compeasatioe at all but • yet, 'when he considered the facilities that would be the cousequence of a contrary course, he must recotninetel the principles of paying the value e( what they held to the prevent pose loon.. In such instances prodigality was economy, and it would enable the people without riot, confusion, or tumult to regain their privileges. He bad, in stating this. Ire part of his plan avoided anticipating the (dice tons which might be urged to it. and pimply sketched the outline, reserviug to himself a future •oppertu•tity of an-wering say remarks that might be made uoou it. Ile now came to the application of tee member. relessed froin disfranchised boroughs to populous piacee Franz the researeh he hid made, lit could not yet accurately ascertain their nuinle r; but, whatever it might be, he would apply them to the most pupa:out [metal the court. try at present unrepresented.—There were aroaud, and to the north of fiefurd-street. 400,006 people unrepreseuted. To these. to Birmisighain i Sher . field. Jilinchester, Ice. he sentil.l allot the suffrages let lease Irons Gstton, Old Sarum, and the sub marine proprietors of St. Mares, &c. He would then go on applying other members, in similar manner released from Burgage Tenures. Rotten Boroughs, its. to the Jargest sad best inhabited counties. ac. cording to their extent, felting the election in the householders paying parochial and other taxes. Thi; would remedy the evil without innovation, or the penpinsidou of any bold but ieeffectual theory. Od the subject of the Scots representation, he was leas able to suggest any unobjectionable immediate anew or remedy, than for she country with which • he was better acquainted ; but he could see no thing uliconstitational in assimilating it to England. If, however, any commie entered into between the two countries, either eepress, or implied. rendered this impracticable. he called on the House to do .wisest was within their reach. and at least to reform themselves.--(llear !) Yet he could not see. but if the measure was advisable, that the united legi sletiere of Perlininent might not extend to Scutleutel also. As for Ireland, train the bete modification of it. representation, he had the less wish to bring for ward any measure of reform. But even there. there Were anise Boroughs jp the norninetioo of the rich and powerful, which lie could desire to see re duced into a correspondence with his general system. Soil Boroughs were the bane of the con stitution. and produced the worst species of Go vernment, a second-hand oligarchy. with the forms of a free. and the spirit of an arbitrary Govern. ascot. having thus concluded What he had to say OA the two great end leading points with which he sat out. he begged have to offer a few words on the other topics to which he had alluded. as connected with his subject. The first of these was, what, in the opinion of =toy Gentlemen, was of as great ion pounce as say other part. He meant the dura tion of Parliaments. Ou every consideration lie ha.l been able to give this point, he wa. the more convinced that it was of enormous difficulty and involving the utmost consequenees. The Seidel). Ina Parliaments appeared to remove the Repr -sta teliest too for from the coatroul of the people s while, ea the other hand, 'tunnel Perliainenni had the el . - _ _ fret of keeping th;ltepresentatires less acquointed with the business they met to transact; the nature ads, &entices required of them, and the proper infortistion to 'noble them to decide wisely for the good of the country. Between these extremes he would prefer thetriennial Parliaments. Brit still the difficulties were immense ; sad unless the present 'ode of election sad of rein!' was altered, the shortening the duration of Parliament to three years must be attended with the most mischievous itrecto. With reno.et to returning Members. mid voting by distr:cts, diereses+ a very wide difference. To the first he foul insuperable objections ; while he highly approved of the last. To illustrate his meaning. he would suppose. for instance, that the County or/ Hertford was divUled into four districts, and each district was to return a Member; the con sequence would be, that the four principal towns overbalancing, in the number of freeholee:#, the district of country around them, would return the Members at if they were Boroughs. lint no evil could result from toting by districts ; ou the con trary, it would lave tomb ex Bose, and en site many men of the first talents to become candidates fur *ems io Pariisenent who were now prevented from sluing so, by the heavy ezpenve attendant on NU Mecums. The ohj..ctinus to this mode of voting roust be null. as the Sheriff could easily hike tilt. votes. The lion. Gentleman then lorielly recsm tulated the grounds over which he had gone.— lie bad rectums:mobil an 415e:rice to the int • luit system of y ree t m ld votes in eoirrity elections, ily giving copyholib-r.; sintilir rights to freehold / erg. He had squad foi the th;frauchisemeut of • rotten boroughs; and the application of the Mein. bees thns let loose to populous plaeca not now-re presented He had desired, that, iu Towns, ice. all resident householders .paying taxes should have votes, and he had been in favour of triennial Pm . fitments, with the accompailying elteritiou iffthe mode of election, by voting in districts. There was still another measure he had to recomniend, and that wail, to reduce the number of Placemen arid Pensioners, without responsibility, in Perha merit. He trusied, whatever might be the fate of his present motion,a bill would shortly be brought in to iceninplish so desirable en object.-.-(Hear Aerie . 1 1—He was aware the subject on whic:i he bed so long addressed them, from the number of times it hid been disenoseal and consequent want of novelty, could not lay chum to their greatest at tention, yet he trusted the nature of the times would insure it a full and mature deliberation. They must have moderate reform, or a military despotism—Meer hear ! Afar)—He repeated. that if the people were refused that winch they laid claim to as a right, they would attempt to regain it by force, and thee the Refocus would be ob tained or a military despotism estibliahed. If they refused, the Sun of Britain would sink in eternal night; if they *greed to the proposition made to them, it would rise in a morn of more perfect glory. Ile concluded by mimeo the appointment of a Committee to inquire into the state of the Representation; to consider the most 'effectual means of remedying the abuses ill the mine ; and to report with their opinion thereon. Mr. Davits Gtocer felt, that, in taking opens him to an,wer the Honourable Gentleman. he put himself into a situation to require the utmost alnlgence of the House. He could assure them, that, undeserving as his observatious might be of their attention, they were the best he could offer, after a very anxious investigation of the subject.— In tome of them did he mean any thing offensive or per.onal to the Honourable. Gentleman, who, in his plan of reform, he must do him the justice to say, had produced a theory the most moderate ali o retioull of ally he had ever heard. The questm now agituted was, whether tke House should con sist of persona bound and connected with the country they represented by the strongest ties. or of a number of delegates from all places, bound to attend to the whitus, passions, and caprices of those who sent them. (Here the Iluiroursble Gentle man went into a drfiuition of the functions of the King and House of Peers. of which, from the great prevalence of noise in the Gallery. we lost all Inn the latter part.) The King was the head of }he Exe cutive Government. The House of Peers, the he reditary representatives of the highest orders, having a strong community of interests with the country. —We knew nothing of cat., of nehility, and en joyed all the hearths of this noble body, without any iconveniences arising from their beidg of that description. Their children were blended wish the mess of the nation, and from the nation, its any respect. they could have no different interests. The next branch of the Constitution was in that House. It consisted of the Representatives, not of the De legates of the people—hi happy mixture, partak in.", of both these descriptions. Were it altogether of representatives, then it would participate too much with the House of Lords, and on the other hand were it altogether of delegates, it could not possibly co-exist with the oilier branches of the Constitu• Lion; (hear. hear;) fur, sithject to every turn of popular opinion, and implicitly obeying the ca prices of the people, a Howie so conttructrd must, of necessity, enjoy all the sytupathies of the sta tion. and soon overturn every other authority. This was so matter of speculation, but one the in- minable result of plain primiples ; it was illus trated by the example of a neighbouring country. i There the executive government was held to be the first authority, bet soon the whole feel ings of the country went with their delegates in the national assembly. who, possessed of this power soon overthrew all that was above them. Our own history produced a sin,iier example in the Long Parliament, which. by becoming the de- - legates:of the people, eaded as all such must end, in a contest with the Crown, and uitimatey in a military despotism. This mode of drlcgatilig a Parliament then, was neither ciiiisodent to the spi rit of the Constitution, nor consistent with the hap. piness of the country. Thus far he had gone on the general prineple. In arguing, that a little more mixture of delegation in the House of Com mons might not be ai:vairtageou., he felt that he did not stand on commis so severe: for without enrolling the fact. that a entailer number of bur guuge tenures, close boroughs. &C. might be berm- Mild, it was impossible, in. a calculation" of that kW, with the different views Gentlemen might take of it, to come to so accurate a decision. The other side might be taken with as good chance of in tint si lung the position ; and when time decisions of the liaise: on the Ceara Convention and Espe. dition to Waleheren were so bandied about. as proofs of corruption, by the mob, amid those feel. ings too much syrnputhised in by several Gentle. men in that House, it might he rather conclusively argued that there was too much delegation ill the composition of the [louse. If, however, it was ac corded to our most able writers, as asserted by them, that men, as soon as elected fur any particular place, because the representative of the whole na. nue, here was an utter bar to the principle of de legatioi . As the House was now constituted. there was • virtual representatiou of the whole nation. The army, navy. and inns of court, though they did . not retnrn members, were all, from the mode in which the elective franchise was now distributed, virtually represeuted.— As for Boroughs, they contributed to this, sad it would scarcely be contended by any of the Gen drawn of that side, that in the Members return ed for the biroogh of Tat istock, for instance, either in the last or present Parliament, that bo rough had made an unfortunate choice. The lion. Gentleman (Mr. Brand) referred to the practice of our .iiiiestrirs. but he would prefer the more tnu deru exa.uples to those of au anterior period. For .what was the House in those ancient days to which the Ii n. Gent. referred for authorities? It was 'oily railed to make the grant' necessary fur the vier vier of tee King, and they had no other mode of obtaiiiiiig the redress of their grievance*, but by rr fusing thus., grams till their petitions were com plied mail. Then they hail lm it power of origi i uatnig or taking other measure..., awl any coltiperison of these, with the present times, must be richtnelous. There was another topic. Tune had a wonderful effect in getting the machine of Government to move .with ease, The Hon. ras tleanau might find, ds others had d me, that there was no anbusement more entertaining than that of training Condiments ; but when his design Came to be put in practice, he would discover, like many other projectors, tint the parts were not to be moved. It was thus that these kinds of pleas upon the Continent, and indeed in every quarter of the globe, since the earliest records of history, had been found on trial to miscarry, and hail therefore constantly subsided into the must simple of all fo-ins of Government—despotism. As Isis arguments hail gone altogether against change, he would not enter into detail, or endeavour to point out the difficulties the Hon. Gentletuan's scheme would have to encounter out of doors, fur lie would not suppose there was any Gentleman.in the House so senseless as to join the ridiculous cry. The charge of teats being bought and sold Wad been magnified into a most alarming evil. He did not deny that it was an abuse, but would any man undertake to point out to him any great body free front all abuse? Neither could the nutuber of places bought or sold be so great as was bla zoned, it could not exceed ten or twenty at most. And what reform could utterly prevent money from obtaining a seat in that House? He ques tioned snitch if even, in the most populous places, applied, to be sure, in a different way, it had not the !rime effectoind demo goes who had obtained the confidence of their fellow-eitintens, by selling their influence, abused the purity of election. He could not believe that any man botteit a seat there to make a market of it. if he did, he could not lay out'his agency in a worse bargain. They were mostly purchased by persons connected with the West Indies, and on substantial injury, but rather pod, arose from it. if the practice was carried to any extent, the evil wonlil be a cry ing one, and demand reilr..es.-..Same few per sons, out of door., shos s held the• idea, that we could not be worse. To these he would only say, look around—look at other nations, where milit try conscription., and executions. acid justice illoulininistered.prtvailed. In Britain, after main taining a contest 'for eighteen years, iu which Europe had been swept uw.sy in rain, we had no. thing to complein of het the accumulation of taxes ; a heavy burden indeed, but one that might well be borate. when we looked at the state of other ' canneries. After all this, we Iloorished in public works, its harbours, in improvements, in. the art.. in agriculture, in population, in maunfactures. and in commerce. superior to what we !Weever be fore been. It was madisess. then. to represent us as a falling station, and to put all this prosperity to risk, because the House . had committed one of its Members ; or even had they exiendtd their privileges a little brassied their bounds, in one invitees.. and inimisouesl an individual for a libel. Ile would not therefore take the first step proposed by the lionourelde Grath-men. even thotult it were innocent. and probibly benrfici d ; fur he knew not what might follow. Others night not lie C41:1- tent with triennial, hut wish to redoes Parliaments to annual, or even lunar period.. (4 Largo la . Others bight t'.,iek the vote of Frecholilere ells! Copyleilelcrs too limited, and go the length of universal autfrage. thereby ititrutlucing delegettnn„ and the consequent overthrow of the Constitution. Ile then recapitulated his arginuente, unit col.. eluded by expressing his opinion. that the appoint ment of the Cornelius e sots wholly inexpedient. Mr. Nisei. supported the motion, which was riot to innovate but renovate the Cmistitutiott, which' time had injured. Ile entreated the lloti,e to thew a Ilispn.itim, to eoneslivie the people by retinal. Lord Alturns spoke against the motion. lie went over grounds wally similar to the last Speaker hest one. With the British constitution he was satialieJ, and he wanted no change. The Hon. - Mover wished them to revert to the cnnsti. tutinn of their ancestors or what they supposed tr.s their connitution, lout lie challenged him to ,hew any period of their history when such a con stitution existed. There was no such point of tree, and it was merely ideal in the head of framers of new coustitutions. lit America the plait of a new constitution, beautiful, and smooth, had been tried and had failed, and would his lion. Friend say thee either that or his own plan were calculated to make the British nation greater or happier than they were at this moment? The Haus as now constituted, spoke the general sense of the country. and he would not consent to enter utwn a tract that might leis/ to a total chaage, either by imbuing dui. vernal suffrage, or any of the wild plans of lute so mischievously promulgated. If the people were &satisfied. they hail the remedy in themselves, as the Parliament was the creature of their own cre ation. Frain these and many other considerations, lie should vote against the Motion. Sir Junta Nit - svroae contended, that as they took away the right • from Aylesbury, upon the ground of minute, upon the same wound could they take away that which was nomin illy the re• presentation of the people, but really the nomi nation of a fee individuals. His Noble Friend (Lord Milton) had alluded to the Government of America, in a manner in which he could not agree with him. Ile could not agree that the Atuerieni Government had totally failed when he hilked to the moderate expenditure, to the light taxes imposed upon the people, and to the flourish ing condition of the country in general, he could not phrceive the symptoms of had govern ment. It did not follow that if the Rouse went into Committee they should therefore adopt every part of the plan which his lion. Friend proposed, wither was it necessary that in their endeavour to Reform they should tear down the Constitution.— House had last year recognised the principle of Reform which it was now called upon to ►elin yuish.—(/Isar, hear.)—lt hint recognised it in agreeing to tile motion of au Ilon. Friend of hie (air. Curweis) though the Minister had contrived, in its progress through the 'louse, to fritter away the useful parts of the Bill.—(Near, hear.)—l le thought it woukl be a ic reat improvement to take the poll by districts. 1 he only advantage perhaps which Ireland obtained by the Union, Vt:t4 the ins provement in her representative system ; the effect V; ill certainly goot, though he ili..appvived and limented the means. Man) clva ii.l 4 e; word.] be derived 1.e.0 duiud Coin 11411:1..' iCid::4l City conic! not obtain is a discassiou upon a la immediately proposed. • Sir J. PL'Lrsnay trfalatained that a r.pres, Sion of the people, completely ttidetwinlent of 1.1. Mown, would inevitabl, introduce .lb9lblUte aracy. No moan could .serioncly entertain t!1 ; otthe httsloeas of the Ciovernm-nt going on, the Crown was permitted to A I/toper IVhen he looked to the actual emortmeoces of present ayatein, when he sow lihetty and hAO:iirlt, more widely estentlel than even the ima:inatimi, of theorists could hare suggested hr fe:t • incumbent ou him to be careful of any chat * which might restrict or impair such advautages... The isrimiple upon which the Itcroftn was it I , rt .„ cent proposed, seemed to him a most eXtrAOrdlll.ll' Oil?. itefortu was said to be nee: s car y, th e tValcheren Eapeiiition had faded. tie did not see how the cuethostance of a Rcrorm, or sat, ham in the repr„,,„t,onn, would en .),1! fllinetcre to conduct extreattio:i•, or to to ttroni trunts sticeeabfully that, at prc•ent. Ilitonry ptov.4l th..a the people were wilin4 to go to war a 3 their preSelltAtieed• 1:1;011 the %011,11., 1"0::%Ii 4 .1111g form at toil moment unnecciciry,.vOil,:!t ring Wit •if it was adopted it wculd nn!y 1.••(1 w2y. more dangerOtia innovations,' he shotli‘l ,y11.),e tVt motion. Ti le people were, he was perauallel, 2; , Welled to the Government now; hut the attempt t. go from perfection to perfection would introdtics a confucioh sod mistake, the conseque n ces ofahiri no man could calculate. • Mr. Alderman JACOB was surptised that Waleheren Exited tieu rhoold be adduced as a rt son for Adopting Reform in the Government. Ever supposing that sit the smell Boroughs had bee t done away before the vote upon that question, th , deeisibn of the House would still hot, e been Itt:tdi the same. The best way to doninish the correolto , was to dimiuisn the eitionoses of the nation. lle to static' it ataxy ill strioua individeels who were rt. turned for close liGrotiglei, and expressed his deft( urination to vote agnitt.t the in..tion. Mr. Smarts* &mane could not agree that tl, opinion of the lintire, in any given eartr, 11:15 P.M tr4rV to the opinion of the people ; there must hr difference of sentiment, beta/teas different indivi duals, upon almost every subject, coil melt sta. to ant to conclude that the majority was aith Ile would ask the advocates of reform tit what Viol of their Instory was the Constitution better the! it was now ?. He could not but think that P,s.• who talked so much about allagea Chile had rni read It. There was no petiod to which he could pliht, in which the reprerents;ion sus so popular at present. The uumher of eltetors vras •; creased. In the rein at Henry the Stx:h, the of election was conflited to h..lilers; on they might form some • th.‘ lineation uudrr that, when they remembered, lie the reign of (,)tiren Anne -tos. was egnivi.luo 121. ' Threw (;entl:rneti situ complame.l mo, a' the weight if twice., lid not rt;year to at the same time they trued the ts (tale thry theimielree alto. 11.. e told with truth unirtn. tiro .1 1 / far as he lisil tilt•••rted, it was 1:le a! udy of !rouse that the taxes should pees.; /11/1 hole a 11111119111, 1, 011 the lower orders. But &twitting all tht, against the flimsy of I::ostitions. tlt4 reinto , which the Ilo.tourable Clcutlentan proN:ied oat he satisfactory to the few trer,ro,., ti - to /rot petitioned. nothing would rtati-ey them but So . Frtriek Burl Ws OAR, which ate hO:c short rut of Res ~r 4usr,, g „. :rne escrierim !brio had already fr•es made 13 France r•el, and he wets surprised that the i; 110,114 cool.' have siid thht it li id sae; et.led is met ten. lie (Mr. S. !court,.) knew a ;: eutle:aaa whose authotizy colll.l be depended on, who Intl told hint that no reputable unties/nen would per. mit a repkientative to enter his shop; he ass persuaded that if runny of t4e eon:lent pernirtri who had once supported the measure of host lived to see the fate of theft modern ropt-o• nient, they would have altered their sentimisw. The real question was whether property or 'moils is should decide? and he being of opitiien that pre• party rather than hers should predominate, and taking into consideration the teinper of tiro times was prepared to give his opposition to the motion. Mr. WARM,. defended the principles and cons duct of Sir F. Burdett. The inotmii which he lied i•ropo,ed consisted of two propositiot:s—otie to shorten the duration of Parliaments, and the ether to (to away such parts of the Repre!ent.iticit as had become the property of indiiiduals. It was hie wssli iltit alt freeholders, who were directly fowl, should have • voice in the election of a :liertilwi fur. irthere was no independence among tlio.c whit were directly taxed, where conli it be enwetel to be found ? The lion. Gentle.naii opposite had els bided to the small number of petitions; but ht him "ilt for a i . e.' , days, and he would ice that they were not vet exhaust-J. It had bred said, that the Elective Body was touch ens larzed ; but it was not enlarged in propooi lion to the increase of wealth, IFr. and the pros plc could not he lepliy taxed, if they were l ilt rightly represeu'ed. It could not be disputed that frequent Parlismcnts were ee.piiroil by the Coos stitiation. Here he went through the horny of Rah intent front the reign of Edward 111. to the eislal.lWiment of the elatetalaiul act in the reign of (tenrge I. which he reprobated as an int . .ingentiil of the Cun.tiiutlou, and an *min.( and urbi:ratV . est rtion of on'wer. Ile quoted the hulhorq of Lord Chid' Jin•tice Itlay.uothl,, who said that & standing army and IA:in:MI Parham. tit net, tu• vertilde and fit sustrumenis to support a-. 111 othrra %lien the Hon. Gentlental had enid Ott thro taxed themselves i.e *ell as the people, be seemed 40 Itnye forgotten the immense stuns which were every floy Inv.shed upon Menlo: rs oh' tint it Reform wu. to take pace, it would 111111.111 Vl.' I I corruption, and to the barter of seats fur %,ri , ei• ships.--(11e-e lie erg for question becalm, •,1.• cal Mot he sat down.) • Mr. WIIITDOLEAD said, that he is uir',l state 31 shortly as hr could his reasons liar etr,eolg io I! , ' issoti for a Committee. It was a 11)0'01111h .!: hid olen berm nisde, which earned with it I'' . author.ty 4 peat name., and to uumb-r if the Members of that %elf' V011 , 4111e Nia% is motion , 0 w hi. n )i.. 4tl which hi.• WAS 41 our !root el earryiO4, av 11,,z h‘•l at 0111) •. .1 .n.l• WI 11 . 11.1trf-s list ii ..;i:L I,o* 1' \u• 11 I ail tit rae S V•S t i iikkbe t$ On, II g S '~ ~~ eatert presr 'I• the I tt 1.1 1.1, Frio , to he t!le a think w as n luen...-- brotii.; :es of o f the hopbine- 1 his ial ittiontio nt at his he fr:t it it; iv iy chute. ant of M al it prt, of 1111 aftedlll.ll4 eerie( bee, tl ., e racrd le tied not tionto Jr nit tro , be hi trite( !Its m..:4 lote.l ne.ol t!en he In their ta. , %Car; ring It.. iuncut eruc t ; theii Coin e , e2Y• to tint pprPhe Ih How i;* It TCnlpttu eve introduct! ehau I olothiell was wog:. that the I.ll' as a re , , No. ERR 1 ,1.. el had been' tn.ol %bon n the sod ire the !orropit., Ina l• 1. Ile He Men went his deist. bit a , I e that tie sat h 3 I • roust br a *US 4.lli- brea !lit itltliVl , h 61 I 41 nil too II not Aiaei what jwo totele titter thno, hot thol tato am 11 'is hail net he could been ovular ...I' floe It•lor vit;tti, .4 , the ri, 4 l it A baft. 114 1 4 sinew i at th‘ !:. col 11.1, ...II a ilih4 - 11 • 14 hew.) 1 a 0 mu. Cry lIIL li, z het rt it the inn ; Ile II • i ) t!!.1 the p pirtol,lo t 1.1141 i a had el 0111141 reinto♦ rd *Ott ti Sr! b 1..., *Cr Sera,.