The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1826-02-15 00:00:00

From the Resolutione which had been adopted by the (louse, relative to the necessity of a return to a metallie currency at the close of the war ? In every` single instance iu which they had departed from the principles contained in these Resolutions, whatever temporary convenience might have been thereby gained, mischief had been occasioned, be cause every such instance had placed them farther from the ob ject which it was their purpose eventually to attain and he feared if the measure now before the House were to be postponed for an other year, it might as well be giver up to despair and abandoned tot ever. dtt three several periods the country had been deluged with a paper circulation. In 1813 and 1814 an immense quantity was afloat, in consequence of the then circumstances of the country. In 1817 and 1818 the country had also been in a similar state, in consequence ot the scheme proposed by a Noble Lord, now in the other House. by which every nom was to be a guinea the richer. In 1824 and 1828, the third period to which he referred, there was also a large paper circulation in consequence of the re-issue of one and two pound notes. Ile would contend that the year 1816 was the proper time to have returned uneemetallic currency, because in that year there had been a great inildittbf gold into the country. In eon. sequence of the vast export trade which st that time was carried on. He might be told, in reply, to ;look at the exports of last • year, sod then say if the preset' year was not as fa vourable as 1816. He would rtply at once in the negative, fur however great might have been the exports of last year, they were not paid for—a large portion of what should have been returned in lieu of thaw exports had been lost in foreign loans; and it should also he remembered that there was a thud failure of remittances from South America for the goods sent thither. It was 011 very well in argument to deal largely to general principles end to talk of great ',tactical men of business, but basing listened to the theories and plans of those who pasted for mss of information, and having himself paid great attention to the subject, be yet at lost telt convinced that the Haulm was celled to legislate upon a subject upon which it was certainly in a great measure ignorant. Kull he would contend that that oat no reason why they should go an with a paper currency. 'rimy should, 114 soon as possible, re turn to payments in an honest standard, and if. upon a future day, they should be unable to meet their engagements in a metallic currency, it would not then be too late to apply a remedy by a tem. posary issue of paper. Such was his view of the subject, and upon these grounds it was that he gave his support to the measure under kits c,olisideneihn. In every instatice where a paper currency had been resorted to to relieve the distress of the country at any parti cular period, although that might have been effected, yet the ultimate object in view was removed farther from their grasp. There watt no doubt but that country bank Dotes had a great sheer In producing the late preaaures by increasing the circulation beyond its natural extent, but it was impassible to calculate or compare the relative share which they had in doing so with that of the issues of the Bank of England. With regard to the situation of the Bank of England. he thought it was not so much to blame for hating increased its issues, fee he was aware that its channels had been more elngted than people were generally aware of. They held exchequer bills to the amount of 700,8002. which they could not Nell, unless they had other than Government seatrity, without con aiderahle loos. They had also issued lamely upon private paper during the recent struggles, and they had been also compelled to advance largely upon mortgage. (An Honourable Member here observed." not by compulsion.") lie had bean told by a friend of hie, a Gireetor, that to speak plainly it amounted to compulsion. It was not a measure resulting from their thee will, but one which had Keen premed upon them by Goveentnent ; neither had they any wish to purchase the dead weight. He did not therefore blame the Bank fir the over-ism, which they had in a great measure been compelled to make, beearte he felt that they wer e in a difficult shut'. atiun. and between contending parties had a difictilr card to play. When the Bill of 1819 had passed the House. the Bank professed its ability to return to rash payments, if Government would par bask ten millions out of the nineteen millions, in which sum the letter was indebted to the former; yet now both were in the same relative potation, and it wan said that cash payments could mot now he resorted to, when the debt due at the present period was lean by one million than at the time to which lie had alluded. The reduction of the interest upon the motley lent to the Government, and the increase of country bank paper citculation had been the great cause of over-trading throughout the nation. When money was thus reduced in value, the immediate consequence was that nothing could be heard of but Austrian loans. and Buenos Ayres loans, and Chili loans, until the money. which ought to be in circulation, was exported from the country, which was conscoaently thrown into those diffi culties from which all persons were now so •naissie to have it ex tricated. The Member for Northampton attributed the absence of the gold to the hubbies which had so recently been afloat, but he could assure the Hon. 31ember that very little gold went out of the kingdom. In the prosecution of those rchenies it might have changed hands in large quantities, but very little bat, left the country. At all events he was convinced that Parliament would not do its duty to the country if it did not take the state of the currency ipto Its immediate consideration. What would be the re. suit if a war should break out while the circulation of the country was in its present deranged state? The Hon. Member for Aber. deen (31r. Hume) had said that the country could not go to war older its present difficulties. He thought the proposition of the Honourable Member absurd, soil contrary to the evidence which was affewderl even by the history of our own times. Had not toe French gene to war while in a state of actual bankruptcy I lie (Mr. Hume, supposed the country to be so poor as to invite an attack; but did he ask himself the question as to whom this money was owing? Was it not to ourselvew ? A war might certainly, under the present circumstances, be pro ductive of great inconvenience, but he believed, notwithstanding. that the country would still remain entire. The great object in view at the present moment was, to prevent a recurrence of the recent calamities, and if they did not proceed to legislate then, they woeld rind the subject, every time they approached it, surrounded te:th greater difficulties. He had recently moved for some returns of pupegs, which would prove that the vacuum in the country cir culation had been already in a great measure supplied by gold. The papers to which he alluded were those containing an account cat the quantity of gold sent into the country during the late panic. He was of opinion that no extension of the banking system would unse from the concession ot its chartered rights so liberally sc. cooled by the Risk ; for as there was no limitation of the liability of the partners to the extent of the capital embarked. he thooght e,,it le . men of fortune would risk their properties in banking MAW -tents, which might at a blow swallow up their whole estates. Ile now came to another system of banking, upon which he wished to offer some observations, and he could not avoid inst. mg his belief', that if any inquiry had been instituted up stairs into the poseeedinp of the banks in Scotland, the mismanagement there would be found to be much worse than in the conduct of thaw in England. The history of the proceedings of these banks was shortly as follows t—aVhen the hinds were low, they bought with the stems which had been deposited with them, and if a sudden rise took place they sold out, and cleared large profits by this species of good management: They had not the same means of making use of their deposits as in London, and therefore they could ot.ly place their money in the fund.. or else lend it upon bills of two years' date. If a period of difficulty occurs, arid if they are called upon for tl:ese deposits. they will nut sellout of the funds at a lam, and they cannot get cash for their bills and the consequence bee been, that the commercial tnirsactions of Scotland stood still foe want of a currency, as was the case at the present period. Ile hail always doubted the propriety of collecting large menses of wealth into one focus, as would be the case if joint-stock banks were established ; and as regarded the currency lie had a still rester objection to it. With respect to the measure before the House, be was of opinion that they must decide at once upon going on under the present system, or else put an immediate end to it. No time was more proper than the present to grapple with the difficulties by which the subject was surrounded. It had been observed that the Rank of England Notes might be made to put down all others, but what greater security could the country hare that the Hank of England could pay in )lold, than that the corn try bankers could do so ? Th.ir secunty might be better as regarded payment, but not as regarded payment in cash. Country hankers might give security, but they could not give security to pay in gold, and therefore all such eerurities must be held to Re ins. aponsible, vicious, and unavailing. Why was not the measure, he would ask, applied to Scotland? The principle as regarded both countries was the same, and one million and a half of coin would be stiffiaent to supply the circulation of that country. He wished the House to consider the difficulty of continuing the present sys tem in Scotland, after haring abolished the paper currency of Eng. land. If they did so, the consequence would inevitably be, that the Scotch paper would banish the gold from the northern counties rat England. Still he thought that it was not advisable to tallow at: pre-cm metsure in jeopially, by attempting to include in it the cirealetion ol Scotland, which might, perhaps, raise further omen. anion to its progress. lie would next call the attention dl the House to the principles of free trade, which it seemed to be the in tention ot hie Majesty's Ministers to persevere in. He was at a loss to conceive how they could do se, while the circulation of , the country was in such a fluctuating state. As the currency I n . creased the prices of all the necessaries of life increased with it, and upon a sudden contraction of the circulating medium, down a mid go the prices; but another consequence would be that a number of people would be thrown out of employment. While thus state of the currency existed it was impossible to carry into effect the principle, of free trade. He was aware that !Ministers had much upon their hands ; amongst other important matters was the silk wade. This trade was peculiarly affected by the prin. ciolts of free trade—principles which it was nonsense to t ote m s ? ' to carry into execution until the people of this country could eat bread at the same price as the inhabitants of other European coon tr.es. Until that period arrived he felt convinced tint iilinisteri could rot carry those principles into execution without or canoeing an extent of distress which he was certain they hail not the smallest idea of. He would next Ray a word or mons to the operation of the currency upon the price of provisions. During a period of three hundred yeses prier to 1797, at Which time the Bank restriction Act took piece, the prices of provisions in this country and other European nations were nearly upon a par, and if it was possible to bring the currency back to its former potation (lie did not know whet effect a very' pros,ptirtAte state of things 'night occasion, but) he thought the prices of provisions in England could not vary in any very material degree from the price they sold at in other countries. He was of opi nion that the landlords ought to be contented with moderate pries ; for if it should happen that the Corn laws should come IMIO operation, he was cerwan that no persons would he so anxious to tepeel them as the landholder themselves. The very arrum. motive ado* coming into operation would amount pro tanks to, the repeal of those laws. This was one reason why he should vote fern the Trammell before the (louse. It was rather singular that altar eleven yests t 4 race, during which no event transpired winch could disturb the tranquillity of the coming, that suddenly the funds should fall from 98 to 74 per cent., and thus while the foots of other nations were unaffected. Such a rate of things, it not pet a atop to, must have the effect of sapping the very roots of public credit, although eventually it must be apparent that no Government whatever had such a portion of honesty, integrity, and firmness, to give Its funds character and weight as England. All other nations had been bankrupt, end would be so again. in his opinion, unless. indeed, this country lent them money. The ' Hon. Member concluded by declaring that be would give his ut most support to the motion, Air. T. WILSON then rose, but owing to a noise in the. House we lost the first sentence. Ile sant that the object of his thing was not to answer the lion. Member who had just sat down, nor to op pose the measure before the Mouse; but to state that what he had t said on the previous night had been in the course of the slay con. finned, by the fall which had taken place In the funds, rind the failures whir h lid been talked ores likely to take place, and which, if true, would be distressing to an extent beyond what could be imagiced. Ile would therefore take the liberty of asking the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) if in perse vering in the measure before the Howie, his Majesty's Ministers were prepared to say 'timber any measures were in contemplation for the relief or the mercantile distresses of the kingdom. It should be mmembeted that the mercantile bodies, however wild and vision. wry might have been their schemes and their si eculatione, had yet been led to embark in them by the low rate to which the value of money had been reduteed by the measures of Government; and it i shou.d also be borne in mind that they had a right to dispose of their own property as it hest pleased themselves. Ile believed that Ministers under these circumstances would hardly turn round upon i the traders of a country which was purely coniniercial, and tell I them that they were fools and blockheads not to have foreneen the ; impending evil, and husbanded their resources to meet it. lie i came then to the House on the behalf of the merchants of the City of London, and of other ports In the Kingdom, claiming relief at the hands of the Government. He had always been proud of sup porting his 31ajessty's Ministers, because be thought they were good pilots, and weathered many storms; but lie much feared that the vessel in which they were now about to embark must be inevit ably loot. The cotton merchants had been particularly un 's rt mate, they had bought goods at 12d. per lb., which were nowmnly worth 6d., because a market was not to be found for the quan hies upon hand. In the year 1791 Government lied • precedent for acceding to the wishn of the merchants of the present day. At that time Government had authorised the advance of fifty per cent. upoh the security of the gouda, and a similar indulgence was sought in the present instance—an advance upon DO qnestionable security, but upon solid property. To this request he trusted the Eight Hon. Gentleman would give a reply. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose and said that the lion. Member had put a question to him, which ass i of such serious importance. that he was anxious to give an imme- 1 diate answer to it. It was to him a matter of regret that his lion. Friend, who had contributed his share in conjunction with those w!.o had supported those measure which it was now said were the Causes of the recent distressed state of the country, should have attributed to him as a reproach, that he had not weathered them through the storm ; but surely in their eyes lie ought at all events to stand vindicated, for they had approved of those very tneasures when originally brought forward for the approbation of the House. For his own part. hr had learned something from experience, and he was convinced that the present stale of things was not to be attributed to those general principles noon which those measures were founded. The Hon. Member alludes! to the course which had been adopted in the year 1793. Upon that omission, the mercantile interest., of the country being in a state of extreme embarrassment, Government had appointed two Commissioners for the purpose of advancing exchequer bills upon goods within a certain portion of their value. Government, he fel , , had on the present occasion a painful duty to perform. However anxious they might be to afford instantaneous relief to the persons involved, yet they were bound to look forward, and consider. not only the immediate effect, but the ultimate consequences of doing so and the future evils which might result from such a measure. The Go. vernment might, perhaps, he charged with a want of sensibility, and even with a want of knowledge and understanding, in not paying immediate attention to the representations which had been made to them upon the subject on which the lion. Member had applied for information; but it was the bounden duty of his 31a. jeety's !Ministers, while examining the representations as to the actual distress existing, also to examine if it was proper to give immediate ease by any particular proposition, and to bind up their corporal agencies to resist such proposition. if they should deem an opposite course more beneficial than disadvantageous. He could not bring himself to a compliance with the proposition. The lion. Member had referred to the year 1793; and other cases also might have been adduced, in which the House had granted a species of relief under circumstances peculiarly distressing. in 1793 the na ture of the distress then existing was exceedingly different from that of the present period ; the main circumstances that produced those difficulties were the state of the external politics and internal dissensions of the country, or at least those difficulties which amuse from the apprehension of internal dangers from invasion. These were cases which had something peculiar in their character. and would not afford a precedent for advances of that description in other cases ; but the very nature of this ease was the circumstance of ovettreding, which led people to the purchase of goodt at enor mous!y high prices, which could not by possibility, according to the Hon. Gentleman's own argument, be realized. If they were to follow such a course upon this particular instance, he did not know what case could occur in which they should not be called upon to make smiler advances by a parity of reasoning ; and then he should like to know by what process of legislation there would be any hope that fluctuations of this kind might sot be constantly recurring, because any man might be tempted by the hope gain to speculate rashly, args log to himself, that although he might be dealing only in waste paper, yet he knew that he had that resource in the feelings and practice of Government, and in the prece cents of Pailiament. which would indemnify him. This was no individual or personal application—it had nothing to do with any particular ircividuals ; hut he was bound to say, that he thought a cont. pliance with the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman would lead to consequences more severe, more injurious, and more prejudicial to this country, and undoubtedly beyond the advantage of any temporary ease that could vanish from it. He was, therefore. bound to say that his Majesty's Government could not acquiesce in that proposition. If any temporary relief could be afforded by the issue of notes, which might through the ordinary channels reach those who were distressed in consequence of the Pressure in the money market , by the absorption of the interest on Exchequer bills, that would be another question. He did not profess or pretend, indeed it would be nonsense to pretend to effect great objects by small means, that this would render any very great relief; but andoubtestly he did believe that some means of aseistance would be given if the Bank felt disposed to adopt it. I ram Government would in this instance teed it to be its duty, in the course of the present Parliament, to provide for the repayment of the advances by Exchequer bills, He did not see in what other way the Government could at all afford assistance to the commercial interests. He was sensible of the support which his Majesty's !Ministers received from the lion. Member, and he regretted the possibility of his withdrawing his confidence from them. He should regret the loss of the lion. 3lember'a confidence; but if it were only to be pur chased by an acquiescence in the measure proposed by him, bereaved it would be bringing a more serious mischief upon the country than they would be justified in incurring. Mr. 'l'. WILSON explained. His confidence in his Majesty's Ministers was in general unimpaired; he had intended his observa tion to apply only to the present measure. Mr. BOBER TSON ascribed the present state of the country to the madness of speculation, which, during the last Session of Par liament, had been encouraged by his Majesty's Ministers refusing to listen to entreaties of a numerous portion of the Members of that House to interfere and prevent those Bills for establishing the various Joint-stock schemes passing into laws. It was by the re peal of the Bubble Act, and the silence of his Majesty's Ministers, that those ruinous speculations had inundated the country. As the Government had refused to prevent these evils, they were now doubly called upon to give assistance to the country by some jun mediate pecuniary advances in the ',time of Exchequer hills. He was now free to confess that this would be but a partial relief, if confined to the commercial body, and would afford but little aid to the manufacturing class, which was the next in importance. This country had been a commercial as well as a manufacturing one; but from the laws which had brought the commercial body into an unfair competition with foreign countries, profits could no longer be realised, and our merchants were now merely nominally such, being in fact nothing more than agents, who, flow the itnpossi. bility of disposing of their voile. were Incapable of rendering any assistance to the manufacture ; and the consequence was, that the latter were daily discharging their men, whose distresses were rapidly becoming worse and worse. By the issue of some Ex chequer bills at this moment the Government would be able to arrest this calamity in its progress. Should the present distresses be allowed to continue, the whole evil would eventually fall upon the landed interest, by an extraordinary stiminutkm of demand for amid' enf necessary consumpticn. He hadno heeitation in asserting, that if his Majesty's Government did not come forward to assist in restoring the confidence in the coun try the landed interest would be In a worse state than in the year 1816, and that before the expiration of this year the landlord would find it impossible to obtain a single shilling in the way of rent. The hunger the evil was permitted to go on, the greater would be the difficulty to extricate the country from thai gulf into which it had been plunged. Timere was not at this moment sufficient capital in the country to revive its wonted state of prosperity; therefore the advance of some exchequer bills would be a most seasonable relief. He was an advocate for cash circulation, but it was the moment that had been chosen to pro mote it that had induced him to oppose the measure. Ile would encourage the circulation of the country as much as possible, that the manufacturers might get relief, issuing exchequer hills and encouraging the circulation of money for a time would stlect the moat essential benefi.s to the country. lie was not one of those who thought that if the House did not adopt time measure at present, it would not be able ever to do it. After the depression that existed was ova, then would it be time to enter upon cash circulation. lie called upon his Majesty's Ministers to reflect upon the consequences that would follow the precipitate adoption of this measure. Ile did not hesitate in dtelaring that in his opinion the peace of this country would become endangered by the perseverance iii the course which his 3lajesty's Ministers seemed now determined to psmsue. Sir HENRY PARNEGG, while expressing his approbation of the measure proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, could not refrain declaring that the House wotuld, in his opinion, be ssurering themselves to adopt a great delusion, if they thought this measure alone would efii:et what his Majesty's Ministers thought it was capable of dolo Looking at the effect which the Bank of England had produce d In the country by the extensive influence it possessed over the state of the circulatiog medium, it appeared to hint utterly isiipossilife that Mere could be a complete system of bank ing ests;ulished until that great power which was poasessed by the Bank tit Engla nd was got rid of, eimecially those exclusive privi. 1 hg e. it enjoyed.. It was ;medalled,. striking that in the eouese of THE BRITISH PRESS. the debate on this question. those gentlemen molt opposed to each other agreed in regard to the great extent of mischief that was pro. dured by the conduit of the Bank of England in the course of the last year. Looking back to what that conduct had been on peril. cular occasions—for instance, in the year 1787, in the year IM, and in the year 1783, he found the course pursued by the Bank had been precisely the same ; which w. s a course of over. issues on occa sions when, by a proper acquaintance with the circumstances of the country, they must hive perceived would be injurious: and on other occasions too great a contraction of those issues. He would nut, in the present thin state of the House, enter more fully into the subject, but he could not avoid expressing his full conviction that until the excessive privileges of the Bank were got rut of, there would remain with them a power to do mischief which in the nature of thing. 'mist take place. Ile was ready to give the Hon. Member (Mr. Pewee), and those with whom he acted, every credit for their good intentions, and for being anxious to conduct the affairs entrupted to them to the best advantage to all; hut still it was out of the nature of things to think that those whose first busi ness it was to look to the profits of the proprietors for whom they acted, would or could throw away those opportunities presented to them for making a profit by an extensive issue of paper, though inconsistent perhaps with the best interests of the country. Ile wished to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) why the plan proposed by 3lr. Ricardo, for allowing the Bank to pay in gold bullion, was not allowed ? lie had always understood that the only reason was, bermes: of the quantity of forgeries of small notes. Now, as they were about to get rid of small notes, he thought they might with propriety refer again to that plan. With regard to the admission of silver as a staudarti together with gold it appeared to him that if it were practicable, without disturbing the present mint regu lation., there was no objection to the measure. But he was of opinion that anything that wan calculated to disturb those regula tion!' would be a most improper and injurious measure. But he could sec no reason why the Bank should not be allowed to pay in gold bullion or silver bars. eetimating the latter according to Its proportionate value with gold. There wee one point more which he would touch upon, merely by way of observation. He had been much surprised that in the course of this discussion no Gentleman had mentioned the influence which the Usury JAWS evidently had with reterelice to the currency. The operation of those laws upon the commercial affair' of thie country haul in a great degree contri buted to the distress that had been produced. It was stated in a book to which frequ e n t reference had been made, and which was the work of a man of considerable practical knowledge, he meant the late publication of Alr. Tooke, that stock and other property haul been sold for the purpose of discharging debts for money, 20 and 30 per cent. less than its real value; and a banker had told him (Sir H. Parnell), that he knew of a case where property had been sold as much as 70 per cent. for the same purpose. Why should they allow laws to exist that conirelled persons to SafTiliet: their property dm.? He begged therefore to !tugged to the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer to consider whether it was I not practicable to do much good to the commercial world by re. Hewing discounts front the operation of these Usury bawl/. lie called upon the Right lion. Gentleman to consider whether the I commercial interests could not be materially benefited by such • step ? There three measures which he had suggested, namely, the doing away altogether of the Bank monopoly, that was, to take away its exclusive privileges ; the allowing the Bank to pay in bul lion, and the repealing of the Usury Lawn, were, in his opinion, essentially necessary to he adopted in order to effect any real and permanent good to the country; and considering the vast portion Of evil that originated from the uncontrolled power possessed by the Bank, by its influence on the circulation, he thought there was no sum which could be estimated as being proper to be given in com pensation to the Bank fur giving up those privileges which this country ought not to pay. Mr. Alderman BRIDGES did not see that any other measure could be resorted to at present, except what was done in 1793, namely, the issuing of exchequer bills for the relief of the merchants of London, and through them to all parts of the country. Unless some such thing were done, he really thought that it would not only threaten the safety of his Majesty's Govern. ment, but that of the country also. lie therefore entreated his Majesty's Ministers to give the subject their most serious consi deration, and apply a remedy as epettiily as possible. Sir F. BLAKE observed, that it struck him with some surprise to notice that now that his Majesty's Ministers had adopted a libe ral line of policy, all were become liberal in their turn ; and even some of the friends of Ministers, who were not liberal in any re. spect before, were so in this, in denouncing the measures that had been lately espoused by the Government. Ile would say to those Hon. Mashers, " Go on, tear his Majesty's Ministers to pieces if you can." (Laughter.) He begged to assure the Right lion. Gen. denten opposite, that he did not mean it in a literal sense, nor did he apply it individually. (Much laughter.) It was an unusual thing for Hon. Members of his side of the House to rise up and support his Majesty's Ministers, but they ever elid so when they considered the Government were acting consistent with the true in. tercets of the country. For this reason it was that he now rose to return his sincere thanks to his Majesty's Ministers, for the very liberal line of policy they were pursuing; and he was glad to find they were determined to persevere in that line, notwithstanding the gloomy apprehensions of some lion. Members on their own side of the House. It had been said that there was a combination between the two sides of the House, but he knew of none; but even if there were, what harm could there be when such men combined to do the most good to their country ? There were men of high talents on his side of the House as well as on the other—men of great experience and strict integrity; and when such men united to do good, it did not follow that they would conspire to do evil. With regard to the system of free trade, he thought that at present there was a necessity for suspending its operation in part ; but when the circumstances of the country would permit it, he hoped the principles of free trade would be carried into effect in the most extensive way. Mr. Alderman HEYGATE thought the Hon. Member who had just sat down had made the most singular speech that ever he heard in his life. His Majesty's Ministers did not speak the semi menu of t he nobility or gentry of the realm, who usually supported them. Whatever might be the opinion in this House, there was but one opinion out of doors, and that was that the country was sacrificed to a cold-blooded theory. It was impossible that any ex cept those who belonged to the political clubs of modern economists could embrace the principles that were now broached. The truth of the matter was this, that the majority of persons who had supported his Majesty's Ministers, he would venture to affirm, did not approve of what was now going on. Did they receive any cheers (Laughter) or support tiom those Gen denten who eat beside them ? No. Where did the support and approbation they met with come from ? It came from those who were their bitterest opponents, and who had been so for the last thirty years ; and they were almost the only persona who counte nanced their measures. The Ministers might say what they would about their liberality, and the support they enjoyed, but he would defy them to carry the thing through. They must show some sympathy for the people. The present state of things was, he had almost said, • disgrace to the Government. Public secu rities were at so great a discount that they could not be re lied upon. Exchequer bills were now at a discount of twenty shillings. Was that a right state of things ? Was there not evidently some mismanagement that admitted of it ? Ge. neral principles might be all very fine, but were they therefore always practical? How could Government expect that men could carry on the commercial transactions of London, while such a de rangement existed in the credit of the country? There were mo ments when Ministers must consult the wishes of the people, and he maintained that things could not go on much longer, if his Ma jesty's Ministers did not not give some relief. If the present course of things were persisted in, there must be a consulsion; society could not go on. Ile pressed this upon the consideration of his Majesty's Government: he would maintain, and the example of all history showed it, that there were periods when general prin. elides, however good, must for &moment be disregarded ; he meant at a time of . great panic. The feeling out of doors was just this, that his Majesty's Government were neglecting the sufferings of the people, for the sake of a system which they had espoused, and that they refused rendering any relief, but were determined to let matters go on till the evds cured themselves. Whether the Ministers or the banks had caused the present distress, he thought one thing was quite clear, that a case wan made out for interposition. He wished to see Government popular, and hoped his Majesty's Ministers would come forward and rid the best they could for the country. If the new projects of political cm nomy were carried into effect, he was confident they would produce a state of unparalleled agitation. The manufacturing interest was the first to feel the distress ; the monied interest followed ; and the agricultural interest would be the next. The agriculturists new came forward to thank the House that their execution was sus. pended for a year, but their turn would assuredly collie unites there Was some relaxation of those projects which were daily undermin ing the foundation of our national prosperity. Mr. 111'31E thought that as the lion. Gentleman who had just eat down had appealed to the House to preserve the country from the dangers of political economy, hue ought to point out the parti cular parts of the conduct of hie Majesty's Ministers which were opposed to his notions of political economy. If he (Mr. Hume) understood rightly that Hun. Gentleman did not speak correctly the general feelings of the country. If he alluded to the removal of the restrictions on trade, that was a measure which had met with the unanimous approbation of the House as well as the country. lie was not disposed to charge the country with such a want of good sense as to turn round and find fault with measures which were ope rating beneficially as far as they went. The Hon. Alderman talked of political economy, but he (Mr. Hume) would be glad to know what the lion. Gentleman meant by political economy. The principles of political economy were nothing more than those prin. elides which every gentLnuan applied to the management of his own house and his own property, only that they applied to the manage. ment of the state. Ile agreed that the measures of Ministers were ill-timed, and though Well at other times, he regretted that those measures were now about to be carried into execution ; yet tie ad mitted lie knew not how such a course could be avoided. The Hon. Alderman had said, why not inane exchequer hills ? but he should be 'sorry to risk the regular proceedings of Government by an extra Issue of exchequer bilk He would be glad if the state of the Bank allowed it to give assistance, but he believed that the Bank felt the pressure like the community, and could not relieve the dim_ tress. With regard to the issue of exchequer bills, he thought the observation that fell from the Chancellor of the Exchequer was de. cisive. lie understood the Right Hon. lientkinan to say, we would if we could. It was hard for gentlemen to sit on the free. sue, Bench and answer round assertions when their opponents ne. glected to point nut particulars. Let the Gentlemen who found fault with Ministers bring forward the particular points upon which they opposed them, butt let them not deal in weeping assertions. Mr. Alderman WOOL) said, his Ilon Friend (Alderman )ley. gate) complained that the Ministers were not cheered, hut lie for got (fiat they had something better than cheers. Th ey h a d a l arge n ajority. (Hear nod hughtes.) He (Alderman Wood) was out of these who were found M the small minority of 39, because from his extensive correspondence with all parts of the kingdom. he was of opinion that the Ministers ought to increase the circulation, and the proposed measures would have a contrary tendency. He thought all things would go on well, if they were let alone. There fore he voted against Ministers, but he believed they were anxious to do all they could to relieve the country. No doubt the distress was very great. There was a failure announced this afternoon of a large house connected with the foreign loans. He did not think much of the proposed plan for issuing exchequer bills. If there was a large issue of these bilk, it would produce an immediate tall. which would affect those whom the measure was intended to re -I'eva. And if we waited patiently, there was no doubt that all would be well. The Bank had power to save the country, and had evinced its disposition so to do. The Government ought not to interfere. His Hight Hon. Friend. (Alderman Ileegaie,) ought to be satisfied with having driven the Secretary for Foreign Affairs out of the House i:y his speech last night. (Laughter.) It was not for the Government ithertere upon evtry occasion. If in dividuals chose wildly to speculate, and lost by those speculations, Government was not to blame. . . Mr. Alderman fIEYGATE explained, and protested that he was the ha person who would wish to drive the Eight Hon. Secretary for Foreign Affairs out of that House. Mr. ATTWOOD next addressed the,lioutee, hut in so low ■ tone that his observations were quite inaudible in the gallery. Mr. PEARM said the Bank, during the last month, had af forded accommodation to the most unlimited extent; mud's. ts' bills were discounted, and continue I to he so to as great an extent as was consistent with the security of the Bank property. But great as this accommodation was, it was not sufficient to meet all the difficulties of the present state of things. Mammy merchants had property of such a kind that they could not brim g it to ih: Bank on paper. His opinion was that there should to a recurrence to the practice which formerly . prevailed of issuing exchequer bills under the control of Commissioners. At the present nioinent„ when wealthy and respectable merchants were in a state of em barrassment for want of money to fulfil their engagements, the issue of Exchequer bills under Commissionere, as done before, would be highly advantageous: they should he issued at the rate of 5 per cent. interest, which would prevent the money from finding its way back to the Bank. It was an object that the interest should be higher. There was a large capitalist who would not lay out his money, but kept it by him, because the interest was low, and the want of confidence so great. But if the interest was high, the money would be absorbed and taken up by those who had no connection with the Bank, and were at present dia. tressed. . . . . . Air. W. SMITH thought it was a hard principle to lay down, that because a titan had lost one part of his property he ought to lose the rest. It certainly was improper that Government should be called on to afford relief to those who had suffered by mad and wild schemes of sneculation, which Government could not control. lin the other hand, it was going too far to expect the Bank to sacrifice its property to relieve the distresses of individuals. Yet something ought to be done e - and befwas convinced might be done. There was a large quantity of goods in the market, and the holders were at a loss in pay their bills. These persons were suffering under the distress without having taken any part in the improvident transactions which c %used it. The (;han cellor of the Exchequer said, that Government could not assist the holders of goods now, for fear of encouraging specu lation. He (i)lr. Smith) thought the Right lion. Gentleman car ried his argument too far. No man would enter upon the even lation under the impression that if he failed he might derive some trifling assistance. If Ministers could devise any mode of alle viating the present distresses they were bound to do so. Such a line of conduct he was aseueed would no; serve as an eons urage , mem to individuals to indulge in rash and extravagant speeds [ions. It might be well to consider whether advances could not be made on goods without leaving Llovernatent with insufficient se. clarity. Mr. If f;SEISSON said that as the debate had been hitherto purely practical, he would not follow the example set by the Hon. Alember for Coventry, by going largely into matters unconnected with the• practical details. He should content himself with re minding the House what situation the country was in with respect to the practical authorities on the subject before ft. The Honour. able Member for London ( Mr. Wilson) had asked a question of his Right lion. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), and in asking that question had given his own opinion. The question was, whether it was the intention of Government to issue exchequer bills for the relief of those affected by the present distress ? And the Honourable Gentleman at the some time said that he thought an issue of exchequer bills would afford relief. The Honourable Member for Callittgton (Mr. Attwood) was of opinion that instead of issuing some millions of exchequer bills, the Bank of England should come forward and sell off all the securities of different de. • scriptio a which were lodged in its toilets. Such a proceeding he (Mr. liuskisson) would assure the Honourable Gentleman would produce a Tenth exactly the opposite to that which he anticipated. The Honourable Gentleman's proposal would tend to straiten the circulation in such proportion as the Bank of England hap_ pened to hold securities. If Ministers were blamed, it was clear ' that those who blamed them were not quite agreed in opinion upon the measures proposed. It was clear that they did not agree in their theories, and that in their conclusions they were i distinctly opposed. lie knew that the state of the commercial community was very bad, and that their distresses were likely to be greatly aggravated by the occurrences which he understood had taken place that day. The entharranments of the c miner cial community resulted from the difficulty of procuring bills of exchange, which was the necessary consequence or the want of public confidence. The Bank was peace ly ready to facilitate transactions even beyond its ordinary rules ; but the difficulty was, that bills could not be created—the instruments which it was neces. vary to produce at the Bank in order to obtain money were not to be had ; therefore there was no possibility of procuring front the Bank the money which was wanted. In the present state of commercial de. preesion it was obvious that there was a much greater circulation ne cessary than in a moment of credit. The question was, how to supply a remedy for that deficiency of circulation ? The Hon. ,Member tor Callington thought, that though Government could not advance money upon the goods which choked up the warehouses. the Bank might; but such a principle would be contrary to the principles of political economy. He could inform the Hon. Gentleman that such a proceeding on the part of the Bank would be contrary to something still more binding than the principles of political econo. my—it would be contrary to their charter, and to the law as it at present existed. The Bank was not at liberty to lend money upon goods. But to return to the question, which wan how to supply the deficiency in the circulation—if the Bank Committee, in the year IMO, had agreed upon any principle, it was, that when the circulation was su ffi cient, whether that security was supplied upon one kind of security or another watt altogether immaterial. Whether the larger proportion was upon Govern. ment security, or upon the security ot merchants bills, as con. cerned the currency and circulation, was a matter of the utmost indifference. Co other political considerations it might be very improper that there should be too great a proportion of Govan ment securities, and it was now wholly immaterial whether the Bank supplied the deficiency of circulation by bills of exchange or by any other securit y, But we cou'd not have balls of exchange, from the want of conhuence ; and if the Bank, which vas tot choked up as some Hon. Members believe, instead of sellir g, was to purchase the securities now in the market, it would necessarily throw a greater amount into circulation, and add to the currency. His Hon. Friend ('(jr. Smith) thought there was no danger in setting a precedent when distresses occurred from overtrading to de vise Wails of relief. Such a precedent certainly would not induce any man to enter upon a sp:cula'ion, when there was a morel s r tainty of its turning out unfortunate; but it would produce a greater readiness to enter into those wild speculations, if the speculators were sure of relief should the hazard end badly. Leery man would feel his own difficulty as the greatest which had ever occurred, anti none of the peculiar features of the present emergency would be considered sufficiently striking to warrant a different line of conduct. The effect ot the measure proposed would be to teach sanguine speculators that if they could , not get out in time, for to this they looked, and not to the final success of the projects, they had an asylum in Government. This was an encouragement to speculator', as much as the relief afforded by the poor laws was an encouragement to those who by such means were placed in a state of dependerce, whilst they might have sub sisted' by their own exertions. If the Wink was at liberty, he was sure it had the means of issuing, to whatever extent was necessary, the additional quantity of paper, and he was convinced it may be done with safety. The securities which should be taken out ot the market by the Bank may in due and proper time be taken up by his Al ajeety'e Government. taking care to make provision fur repayment. There was great difficulty, no doubt, in affording any adequate re lief, such was the total stoppage of commercial emifidence. But the measure which he now suggested for the Bank to act upon may begin to-morrow morning, whilst any measure originating with the Government must pass in its several stages through that House, where it would be subject to discussion, and could not ope. rate to any extent on the currency until a considerable ti me had elapsed. In conclusion, he was convicted that his Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), acting in perfect concert with the Bank, had not only taken the best course which the cir cumstance' allowed; but that course, compared with th e ethers recommended, was free front danger and inconvenience. Mr. E. ELLICE apologized to the House in again rising, but he was anxious to express his feeling that it would be derogatory to the 110u5..•, when distress was extending itself, if it slid not afford relief. In reference to an observation that had fallen front hit Honourable Friend the Member for Cellington (Mr. Atwood), he would point out that there was a very greet difference between the Bank advancing money on exchequer bills for Government, and their advancing it on account of the merchant, as in the latter case there would be a second security. There was no doubt that the issue of exchequer bills would give relief, but not if they were to go into the market; they would then only go to affect the priceof the I funds. It was impossible now for a matt, however respectable, to obtain an advance on goods, for persons who had the ; ability to. do so were as jealous of their c re dit as t h e i r cap i ta l, I and they would not accept bills on such security, and therefore it was that it was impossible that relief to merchants could be given on grinds alone. it' an issue of exchequer bills should take place, he (Mr. Ellice) was convinced that p r op er l y app li e d th ey would not find their way into the market ; and he would put a case to the House. Suppose a country banker to have advanced a sum of mo ney on mortgage, on a good estate, he is in want of morey imme diately, anti applies to the London bankers, bitt they wilt net ad vance, and that it would take six or twelve months to get h.: amount in, suppose that person was enabled to obtain exchequer bills for his mortgage, why then the exchequer bills would go to Lis London banker, and money would beobtained. The exchequer bills and mortgage deeds would be lodged as security, and the exchequer bills, the medium ofassistance. would never come tolight. Fitly other cases might be put where the events would he of a similar nature. He (Mr. E.) had a recollection of a mensal:Lica in which he was concerned in the year 1793. A person reptiring an silv ans , considerable amo u n t , deposited with his banker exchequer lid the amount of 50100 f., and gave personal security; the bills Us't locked up under the seals of the three partners of the bankiret house, and Government were never called upon for the *nu. % a •-• He (31r. Ellice) apologized for troubling the House at such let. L . t - h . ' but these were circum s tances which he wished most strongly to Ci n ." under the consideration of Government. He could not but call ' ," 1 the Right Hon. Gentleman to look at the state ofthemanufac ens; • districts. In the north of Yorkshire it was not a question . t ; who would pay their bill s , Per they were all a l i k e unable to p, and the labourers were discharged, th e manufacturers no t ~ money wherewith to pay their wages. lie (Mr. Ellice) ennwa, agreed with the observati o n s t h at h a d h eca made, that it would e e l be politic Mr an issue to be made by the Bank of England, ba teau .; that would only be putting off the evil for a period, lie t i; Ellice) was assured that if an issue Of exchequer hills to t h e amount of five millions should rake place, two millions am mo would not be demanded. He had &me all in his power to pu n necessity,of Such relief being afforded to his .Majesty' s 3fi ra „ ta _ at the game tim e h e was w illi ng to adn:it That th e Ito, H 4: Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and it wa s due to him to say so, had sacrificed Ws feelings in the canister heta an i t , Mr. PEA RSE said a few words in explanation, but which err; inaudible in the gallery. Mr. T. WILSON said that he hail hoped in asking the questiee of his Majesty's Ministers as to all issue of Exchequer huh ta u their answer would ha ve b een f avoura bl e, for he felt that Willey had so consented to a ll ev i ate t h e present di ffi culLies , the intirnstaia of the public press to-morrow mornleg to that effect would b oa been most cheering to the feelings of the public. Mr. ATTWOOD made an observation or two, but which gig not reach the gallery. Mr. HUSKISSI iN said across the table that the Bank woe precluded from advancing money on goods. On the quesron that the report on the resolution be brought up. Mr. H. GURNEY said that he should move an amendiseat w similar nature to that tie had the honour of submittng last night, which was, that the words "" Batik of England" should beemitu.d, He cont.4ded that in many parts of England there was s total want of a circulating medium ; and he did not see how that could be supplied so well ea by notes of the Bank or England. The difference be. wren the country hanker and the Bank of England was, that to t h e B an k o f Eaglard they had the security of :he country, while in that of the country banker they only had thus( the individual, or individuals, cotnpnsing the firm ,• and he (31r. Gurney), could not but concur in opinion wiat an Hos.Directut (Mr. Pearse), that much undeserved oLloquy had been thrown tin the Bank of Et gland—and, if it was not too harsh an exerts. sion, that they had been cruelly belied. The Bank of Englsed had done all in their power to alleviate the late stagnation, and wha'ever might be the consequence arising nut of the question as to the exchequer bills, the Bank could not be accused of not basic., dune every thing in their power to stay the lore calamity. Mr. E. WODEHOUSE rose to express his sans action that the Hon. Illettiber (Mr. Gurney) had proposed Iris amendment t h at amendment was a measure of safety, and safety was a leninve blessing. The object of Parlhilrlent was not u, lose time ni idle cavilling, but to act for the best. The House and the couttry • were march indebted to his Hon. Friend (Mr. Gurney) for the din of conduct he had pursued ; no man could regard political sistencf more than he (Mr. Witelttliouse) did, and he trusted fa should not be accused of departing from it if lie said that o thought his Majesty's Ministers had taken a narrow and coot:Acted view of the question betore the House. lie hoped not to be coml. tiered in hostility to them, and he must any that, as regarded Ile . question of the repeal of the assessed taxes, or any suer servep:ng 'nelsons, he should feel himself called upon to support them : 14.1. on this question be must repeat that, in his view of the cast. r Majesty a Minist:ra had taker, a very narrow and contracted vas of the question, and therefore he felt bound to support the Aimed. me it tit his lion. Friend. The House sas then cleared for a division, but none took place. The Report was brought up and agreed to; and the Blouse juurned at Half-past Ten. LIST OP THE MINORITY Of thirty-nine, who (on the I:Sth Feb.) voted against the pater? any Itmlution, at the present time, fur withdrawing Bank nom under N. Attwond. Matthew Crossett, L. R. Palmer, C. Fysshe Bright, Henry Gs Coyne, General Plummer, J. Benett, John Hume, Joseph Rotuma, A. %V. Ilritlges, Nlr. Aid. Heygate. Mr. Ald. Roberts, Col. Blair, James Heathcote, L. G. Robertson, A!ex. Baring. Sir Thomas Honywood, W. P. Robinson, Sir George I 'alcraft, Joho Inner, John Smith, Samuel Calvert, Nich. Ingilby, Sir ll'. A. Smith, Abel Farquhar, Sir Robert Irwin, John Thompson, Mr..V.d. Gurney, Hudson Kempt, T. R. IVilson, Thomas Gordon, Robert Martin. John Whitbread, W. 11. Griffith, L. W. Moberly, John Wood, Mr. Ald. Graham, Sir SandfordMaberly, Major Walker, J. Tellers—Baring, Alexander ; Wit ttesley, Sir J. After the division on Mr. Bering's motion on Monday night when the House went Into a Committee on the Chancellorm tr. Exchequer's resolution, Mr. Hudson Gurney moved to on.,t words •• of the Bank of England" in the resolution for dinoc. tinuing the circulation of one-pound notes. LIST OF THE MINORITY. Attwood, Matthew Martin, John Thompson. Aid. Buxton, F, Palmer, F. Wodehuuae, Ectrr.d Gordon, Boa. W. _ Teller —Hudson (Jamey. CATHOLIC MEETING. There was yesterday a very numerous and respectable adjourned meeting of the Catholic Gentlemen, to take into consideration the resolutione which are to be submitted to the Aggregate Mtetingoa Tuesday. - MICHAEL DILLON BELLEw, Esq. in the Chair. • • Mr. O'Gorman acted as Secretary. Mr. O'CoNstEit. moved the first resolution. that the General Petition be consigned for presentation to the Marquis of Linsdown in the House of Lords, and to Sir Francis Burdett in the House of Commons. 31r. CorrwAr seconded the resolution. It was put from the chair and carried. Dlr. O'CoxxELI. moved the next resolution, namely—That the be Noble Lord and the Honour a bl e G e n t le ma n s h ou ld requested to present the pttitiol as early as convenient. Mr. O'Butex suggested whether they should not be left a dies er tion as to time? . . Mr. LAWLESS insisted that it should be imperative. Mr. CONWAY— lmperative! no:.sense Mr. O'Cowwwm. said that the word convenient answere.d the purposes of Mr. O'Brien besides, they should a: letit be civil in their language to their advocates. Mr. LAWLESS would be civil to no one but ladies. He insktel that the word " possible" should be supplied in place of "ca• venient." Mr. W. MArrow did not see any thing disrespectful in ch: word " possible." Mr. CONWAY said that a discussion of this kind was really chi 1. ish. Did any snan conceive that, after all, Lord Lansdown and r:t 1. .Burdett would not use their diserrion ? Mr. O'Costrrect. begged gentlemen to remember that " stbly" might mean the very day on which the petition should Trull the doors of Parliament. Now twelve or fourteen days must elapse before that period ; and it should be recollected that the Assizes were at hand--that the Irish Members would be coming over to assist their electioneering friends in putting the presentments—a duty which they owed set all times, and patttcular.y at the eve ofs general election. (Hear.) Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON thought the Catholics should areas their gratitude to the people of New York at the next Aggrega s Meeting. However, it was not his wish to divide the Cathohr body on any question It wax his opinion that, in expressing then gratitude to the people of New York they would not adopt thereby the sentiments contained in the address from that people. It was said that that address recommended to the Catholics dangerous things, and that they should therefore be extremely cautious is adopting its sentiments by any proceeding on their parts in referents to it. Allowing this to be the case were they not to be thanked , at all events, for the good intentions which actuated them ? li 3 man, with the wish to serve another, should unintentionally ic2 , tra him, he was not the less entitled to gratitude and thanks on :hr account. Mr. Mahon concluded by reading a resolution for a re:e . of thanks to the American people, for the generous expression o f their sympathy in favour of the Irish Catholics. /11r. Lawless thought it impossible, if the question were brought forward before any Irish assembly, that they would rot warmly express their gratitude to their friends in America. The. only question was, 20 to bring it forward as to meet the wishcate all parties, and to obviate the designs of those who would bssely misconstrue all their actions. No o e could prevent Mr. Mahon, of any other gentleman from bringing his propotition be or the Ag' gregate Meeting if he should so wish to do. If negatived at that Meeting, he (Mr. Lawless) thought that Mr. Mahon should Piton': to she will of the people. Ile also felt convinctd that it well duty of every Irish Catholic to seize the earliest opt on may which would present itself of expressing his thanks to any pereola °t. people who deserved (Hear.) The object which he had to view was not to return banks in any indirect. or, it he might so call it, wit. way. (A laugh.) He alluded to the amendment pre posed by his eloquent friend, 31r. Wyse, at the fourt:ten d A— sociation, on the subject now under consideration, which amend ment he (31r. Lawless), without the slightest intention of burg any way personal to the mover of it, characterised as a cowardly evasion. He entirely concurred with Mr. Mahon that they should thank the Americans ; but who weretliey that deserved their thanks —surely not the whole of the American people, not the inhabitolas of Boston or Washington, or North or South Carolina. No, it rat to their generous mends in New York that the thanks were di" and it was to them and them alone they should be given. Pair. Lawless concluded by reading* resolution which he should movers an amendment. It was to the eflixt, that they had read with gratitude the aentiments of the people of New York. containing the exttreg: sion of their generous sympathy in favour of the Irish Catbollea-, but that in expressing this gratitudethey took the opportentlY declaring their inflexible attachment to the 115ritish Cons itutioi, blessings of which they had so long sought to obtain. Mr. A. linowx e seconded Mr. Lawless's amendment. 31r. (Yrostx;.:t.t. would oppose any vcie of thanks on. that <0!" ject. lie had read the adtlresa with deep and mature considers ' . ' t " and had deliberately weighed the sentiments which it corded" - • anal he would now only say, that altheagh he had served t h e tat