The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-02-01 00:00:00

clerk who bed superintended the griaair stages, should see that it was correctly catered took the reoonl; they would also hare to emssiderthie.easostot of the fees which it would be proper to allow the clerks for conducting' the 'humus. Ile would, therefore. without further wefuce. move, .4 That. • Select Committee should be appointed to intplire into the best means of prdviding for the accuracy sad regularity of the proceedingetto the caeraf Monte hills, and also to adjabt the *mount of feu to be paid to the clerks enpley;t:d to this su perintendence. Mr. Nat att said, that, if the arisiosement had only the effect of producing advantage, no objec tips would of course be noide . to it ; nut if, as he feared, it would add to the expense of those who were willing to tondertake improvements, he must disapprove of it. Policy poiuted out the impro priety of throwing any obstruction in the way of naproveruents; the House should therefore exercise great caution, that no additioual incumbrance s..ould be imposed upon such persons. Mr. Pa ma MOORE thought, that the matter for which the Right Hun. Gratletilan Waft . providing. o.iis already provided tor. There was *Committee appointed by the upper House, for the errangetueut of private busimos, over which Lord Walsinghaus presided. The SPIrAIIIII interposed at this observation, and slid, that he felt it his duty not to suffer any member to state. that there was any officio( revisiou of any proceeding of that House, but its own. Mr. For LE& complained of the obstruction which private hills sometimes met, end instanced it by a candin which he was himself concerned. The SMARM thought that he could inform the Has. Member noon that point. It was his (the Speaker%) duty to open the breviate of each Bill, and if he saw any objectionable clause, to Ale it to the House. In the exer-ise of. his duty. in the case alluded to by the Hon. Mrntbci, he ih.co , Fr ed one clause. which weut to give to. lks Maje * ty, in Cornell. the 'misty to revoke a Bill ; on Its InentioaiFg that circumoan , !e to the. House. the Sill was in consequence withdrawn. Mr. BATUORaT said. that what had from the Chair, obeyed that sonsethmg like wha was yropeord by the Chancellor of the Exchequtr was Reetmary. . . . The question was then carried. end the Com mittee uppointad acgonlirgly.-o.dere.l to inset to-tuorruw. SC HELUT EXIMDIT lON. Lnrd Posisow;;;;rnovre— " Tbs. a aanalwr of Oaken shield be varaprocl to attend as Frisay. anew,' anima weer Stv Lyvv Coot, Geoerats itppt sad Browsing, Calumets M'Cltatt sad Da me., Capt. Owes of the Navy, Gement, Doane, Fouler. and bondai mut that Gvorral Grosvenor cod Sir HOUK eltould be decked to aternd la Oscar platee•-- Ag re ed to. Lord Pinto's:sum begged to know whether it was to be understood that the inquiry would •be carried on, day after d iy, or whether it would be . thongtit necessary to exempt 00) , pm:dealer days? He thougl.t it expedient for the titnile 10 Coln, to an uniler.taatlioz upon this subject, in order to pro vide ossios,t 444. Mr. Panccvat. did not think it wise to comb to 'say resolotion of the kind, but to 'A determined by the .shire of the hosiness, as they proceeded.--- Me was sure that the House would fed every in eliiiation to expedite Kilmer, and would acquit itself, is that respect.a. well as is the inquiry of last session. beyond all impeachment fur neglect. Mr. Ttsaisev thought that his Hon. Friend was, .misunderstood ; all he wanted two to ascertain whe ther the general feeling was, that it should only be • interrupted by important business--eonsidershle inconeemeoce must arise from deferring it from day to day ; he therefore thought jt not iiiiisecessry for the House to pledge itself that it would lose ne time. • Mr. PL/CEVAL corild not see the expedieocy of ' driving the fluuhe to any ptedgio upon the subject. The inquiry would Wench into separate head.: Up., policy of undertaking. the mensierof executing. and the subsequeot delay at ‘yekleveu ? Upon the cite mien of the policy of andeasking. it might be thought necessary to move fords more coofioed innal than the bar of the House of Connoting ; and • debate might take lilac.: upon that,subject. would necessarily loterrupt the p:ogress pf the in quiry. It was his wish, upon the farmer occasion, in tale the course most approved of by thin Ilouse ; such tee his conde::t upthe pon resent . . . Mr. Timmy 'till thought that they might r•ome to so untlatstaudiog, without making any spe cific pledge. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. - - - - Mr. %V amp propelled several Resolutions. which Ver. /Wird to. The Cat was-0 That one hundred and thirty thousand omen shaukt be granted for the sea service." areoad-... That the tonna two millions nine hundred and simety-aise thousand Novo hninlred and fi!ty pnantle, should be granted for wages, at the rate ot toe pound fifteen sod .i%-pence s-das." -The Third—. That there millions nine hundred and ronety•twa thousand I.:c hundred and tueuty•tise pounds. should he grouted fur " Thenotrth--" That three million, two hundred anti ninety lee thoaaaskrl fear hawked pawed., should he granted tor and tear, at the raw at sae pytiod winches per " F4th—" That Gee hundred and ll ill ety-one thousand fi%< haaireJ posed& should be granted file urataasce." After a conversation between Mr. Ward, Mr, Pereeval, Mr. Tierney, and 11r. D. Giddy, the Re. solutions were agreed to. Sir .lOW. Nawroie inquired whether the Irish . Svo-Frocitries were to be continued, or not ? Mr. WARD aqswered. that they were iotemled to thme aergy with. tnitt,2 of loquiry into the Nike Expenditure au appointed duritsg the last Parliament, and that he had proposed a tessolution. that no reversiutia of place* should be granted; which was adopted mut tiimotisly. Not one word was s..id in objection to it, during the progresisof the bill, ,hough his Right' Flom. friend was then a very important.usemher of the House. The diasolutiou of Parlianien4 whL•h took place during ita•progress, prevented the Com mittee from proceeding any farther at that time; • but His Majesty's gramma speech signified au ap probation of whin had been done. He felt it his duty, its the present Parliament, to present the very wine Bill to the House, and lie had again the tits faction of seeing it pass unanimously. Very unex pectedly, however, it was thrown out in the Upper House. Upon that occasion they had thought proper to address His Majesty not to grant any rex-taxies until the ensuing wositons, at which period he again preowned the Bill.— The propriety of the principle was again recognised, but it was thrown out again in the Upper House. Under all the circumstances, therefore, he was in duced to content himself with a temporwy Bill, which he considered preferable to an Ad.:teas to His Majesty, as affording the best means of assejt. log and acting on the priuciole. without creating one tnisunderstending or breech between the two Houses. He even went farther in the pursuit of diet object—he adopted certain ex pressiuns. su ggeste ed by His Majesty's Minister.; at the seine time de claring his adherence to the principle, and his wish that its operation should be-perpetual. He would think it hard. therefore, if the words of the pre amble were to be objected to hint. haring ex oreeisly stated his opinion. So much for the history of the BilL He thought that it became them to do that, upon the present occasion, which, upon two former occasions, they had declared their in twition of carrying into wircui too. There was no reasons of principle against the_Bill, were there any of expediency ? It did nut become them to suppose, that there •was a disposition iu any other body to object to the Bill; it was done.; am injustice to that other House to suppose, that time had not the power to act against prejudice !here, as well as in ether pleat,. lint there was another and a strongee reason fur agreeing in his motion: if ever there was a time in which it was of mce to possess the good opinion of their cons its, the present was that time ; the ej rs of all w :e upon them, as well of those:who wished for in novetam, as of those who loved the constitution under its present form, and nothing could be more agreeable to the one, or maredisplcss- Mg to the other, then that they should lose the good opinion of the petiole. There were three points of view in which he should consider the effects of the The fist was, that of public economy; this olij-ct, so interesting at all times, was particularly lib at present, when the burdens of the people were so great. He did not mean to hold out any vain hopes of a great and sea tilde alleviation of theme He knew that they were great;. but he kuwe'lliat,hs the prosecution of this just and ne cessary war, they a ere likely to increase, rather than dittliutsh ; the alleviation could not be great; but what was nut greet iii itself, might be so in principle. The ecened point was, that if it was resolied not to grant offices in reversion. it would tend to the well tilling er the offices. The person who gave the of fice would then be responsible for the ability of the ;swami to whom it was given but when it Wje given to a peison out of sight, as was the case in rever sions, the very qualificatioas of. age and sex were likely to be overlooked. Another disadvantage at tending the system was, that it led people to coati ' der places mid offices of state, not so much a pub• lic trust, as a matter of property. A. to the neces sity of respecting private rights, he did not mean to deity it, gad, he believed, that if the House had any fault in that respect, it was the fault of considering too much for the rights of individuals. and too little for those of the public. He would state a fact, in exemplification of those remarks. The whole supply of medicines for the army and navy was 'tested in one individual,' to whom it Caine by reversion. mods it was once in agitation to boy up the right from hon. for the beisetit of the se.vice. "1 hat would serve to shew to what inconveoience it was liable to be tottended.• Reversions tended also to the increase of sinecure offices. %Vhen an office became unnecessary, suit that a person still retain ed a right to it, the consequence was, that it ne cessarily, became a siceciare. Would they then allow a practice of such aim injoriotss tendency? He was come now to whet constituted, perhaps, the greatest detriment dein ed from it to the public servtee, and that was, wheat it was applied to pen sloes. These were nut a few persons to whom met- . snow of pensions were granted. This cooltouled and narrowed the bounds of Parliamentary interest and Ceo we glistributson. The third point to which he slit-mid advert, was the eifect likely to be produced lathe bill, upon the p:-dive of the Crow e , e woul 1 do his Right Honourable Friend the justice to my, that he did not object against it any tendency to impair the prerogative of the Crown; and it appeared to himself, that its real opera tion would be gradually to restore that preroga tive. The granting of such places should he vested no wnere but in the Croon ; but, at the saute time that the right was conferred. the duty of a proper stele, ties should be imposed and expected. He concluded with moving lee leave to bring in a bill to perpetuate the operation of the Reversion Act. Mr. H. TIIONNTON seconded the motion. He sail, that if the !mina's'e was already acknowledged, tli. jshould not be induced to abandon it merely u consequence of the rejection of the House of Lords. Considering that they themselves were pe _, culmily the gisortliotis of the public purse, it be came them to affirm. and re-affirm , their liPitt° 9 . It had been the practice of the MOW, for many year., to coutroul the power of the Crown in the disposal of pen-ions. In letter times, the pension. list was limited; hut the piiiiciple would not be carried into effect, ankles the time for which it was granted was I.mited, as will a, the sum. Since the tune that pensions were limited, the prectice of reversions was increased. After going over the woe gronnd which Mr. Bankes had already stated, he cnnelutied with expressing a hope that the bill , would meet with success. The CHANcti.LoR of the Excuse - van enid, he could perceive no nmelty in the ininineyee urged 'spin the ;Relent netsitios—then ortlvanerd in the last st•iiinn were precisely similar. He land been called upon to state a reason for thit change which, it was said. appeared evideut in hlieopinions ; be could only answer this quevtiou by asserting. that no change hail taken place. end there were no grounds upon which to found a supposition of that Wine. It was still hie fitted opinion, that the pre sent motion was not one which could be eithrr eminently sclvtuttarous, or detrimental, producing benefit to the public, or invasion to the preruge tive. The effects• which bad beea represented so possible to result. were much exaggerated. As v..: ecenomiesi reruns% he iltd not think that can could he at -ell served by its adoption ; and if it could be regarded NS bearing any a!truipt opus the prerogative, he rather considered it an alteiatiert, than an Unable:l of it and ain -atm ratlmr of M etes...nig. that. diniiitianiiq it. li e . th oug ht it an intfartuliate ouggetiol, which lie dii nut tax his Right Him. Friend). that. considering. in an r ee n• mica l vi. w. tie strange opinion olds leading to the measure of reform iris adopted by those concerned in it; the idea of such us ecttsequence was absurd and chimerical. The only obj,ction he 'could conceive, to the grants of reversiou. was, that the legitiiaate power veined in the hand* of those who could best apply the remedy, by reform, or abolition. could nut act with au immediate etrect, but he doomed to a remote operation. Ile was of opinion, that the power of granting offices by rever sion might be impended. The resolutions upon the report of die Committee of Finance, proposed by an. Hon. Member (Mr. Henry Martin). would soon be produced ; and it could then be determined whether abolition was necessary. Suspension of those grouts would as surely teed to their reform atiorvas abolition ; and the :louse cannot lose the power of abolishing. By this meatus, if any injury was to arise. it could be ascertained. and the power of repeating that injury efrectuidly prevented; this would be answering all the purpose* of aboli tion. He would caution the House **taint too hastily deciding upon the adoption of the motion. It might happen that a vacaucy occurred. when the public would be much incoovenienced s , if there was no ion. A late melancholy inanimate had occurred, (he here alluded to Mr. Eden). which, if it had happened after a grant of the public money, must have been attended with most serious collar queuces, as uo money could be issued from the Teller's chest. /Hear ! hear !J These consider ations induced him to acquiesce, upon a former oceasion. in the motion for the suspension, rather than fur abolition. of places iii reversion. They were attended with no greater expense or incon venience to the public than places in possession. He concluded with saying, that if this subject could be considered as one .•of importance, (he himself was far from considering it as such), it would be prudent to take a middle course, and consider die pre-ent convenience ; and, if one public measure iv*n considered of more service than another. that surely. alined be the measure adopted. In concurrence with these sentiments, he had an amendment to Propose : that, in plare of the word "perpetual." the words " be continued, for a time to be limited," be substituted. After proposing the above Amendment, the Chancellor of . the Exche quer a iid, that, if he perceived Its sense of the House was against it, he would immediately with draw it. Mr. Powsosaw said, the Right Hon. Gentleman had adhered excfusii7ely to what had scarcely becia Pinched upon by the Right lion. Mover ; the clues tMit had been considered in its economical view by him, without a single allusion as to the evil effects of ministerial patronage, or the (linger arising from appointing those to situations, for which they had not a single qualification; neither did he touch upon that point, that men, who had been calcu lated before to fill the situations to which they were appointed, might be unfit, by some change, natural or politic, to serve in them. Much would have been saved by the prevention of reversionary grants. fie conceived the point of influence of greater weight than that of economy; the Mini sters obtaining a dangerous power by those rever sionary greeds, and by that means depriving the Crown of its legitimate privilege. He said it also iufringed upon the privileges of Ministers. and in duced, in another point of view, a waste of the pub lic means; forelegs Ministers had before hand dis posed of those office, which. ought to be the re source or the means of securing their own influence, they were the first to create and bestow new offices and new rewards. It had been said that those friendly to this measure wished to delude the pub lic, by creating • belief that it would be produe , tiwe of immediate replenishment and economy.— lie had never held forth such an opinion, nor did he believe that any such fact could be produced. There was nothing that he deprecated more than an attempt, on any side, to delude the public ; and nothing could be more mischievous than for those in opposition, for the sake of attack upon Milliliters. to held out promises, which they knew, if they cuine inter office, the could never realize. He agreed with the Right lion. Gentleman, that it was right that the Crown alone should have great offices in its gift; but what could be more unjust than the anticipation of the reqire's, not only of the present, but of future Kings ? Under these circumstances, he gave his most warm support to the original.motion. Mr. D. Ctnor also supported the original mo tion. Ile thought the grant of offices in rever sion a greeter evil than sinecure places. and could see no danger from tusking this bill. upon the principle on which they all agreed, perpetual. Sir S. Ronitty said, the question before them was, whether they ought to make this • permsysnt or a temporary law ? and the very argument that had been used, that the advantages resulting from this bill. would not be immediate, but future, appeared to him conclusive, as to deciding upon the latter. He bad heard, with surprise. from his Right lion. Friend opposite, that he did not think the bill would have any good effect, in point of public economy. lie was greatly surprised at this, because his Right Honourable Friend be longed to that Cabinet. which had advised His Majesty, in two different speeches from the Throw , . to notice the measure, as one from which great benefits were likely to accrue to his people. But there were other stronger objections to the emitting of offices in reversion, which his Right lion. Friend had entirely omitted to reply tn. Persons might be stained. in • reversionary grant. to fill a place for which they might be vciy tit at itiht e h: t ie s but, before di ! ue th f e t t h i e tn allele oeie o f nal:net:lnas randtrsf incapable of fulfilling the duties which tlis T called upon to perform, or fi t dese rit : t i of character might have rendered them s t i any o ffi ce. ‘Votild Gentlemen appoi nt or any other 'ennui., death of tl.e per: holding it, u l o w ,, t s Howe,' of hie capability of perloriniug :• it? and uould they then be le ss care f ul in at pointinent of a arty:int to the public, th an i, own private affairs? Thus stood the owe with to reversionary grants, where duties were in I funned, uud they were equally moustrous %L i places were -inecure. Siliceures 'were wailed reward fur past services, and the reward nud e iru isle; inns, or it would lose the greatest pnrt ul hors A grant iu reverie% therefore, could u, proper for this purpbse. The Learned Heinen then carried the same *vino; such offices as were neatly sinecures, been formed by deputiee, with small salaries, c cud the other parts of his subject, hr siren t his own opinion. by citing the ;authority err Chief-Justice ibles. If the measure as, r say, it was necessary now; if they were law let them now do their duty, nor trnst to s, r &soon of Parliament to do that duty f r . r which they owed to themselves and their non The SPEA AMR then put the Amooluse m , tees negatived, and the urieits:tl tiusatieu tied without a division. 1111-APTOINTMENT OF IRE FINANCI COMMITTER. Mr. Beanies obeerred„ that, as every NI; of that House must be friendly to ptiotio which had for their object economy it expenditure of public money ; he cool anticipate any objection to the motion now to submit for the appointment of a mittee of Finance. II , though there be no objection to t yet some di might anse on the choice of persons t. the important duty rata tasted to them, by be minuted to the Committee. The House on be careful whom they lop, Minted, as the eS; of their labours depended entirely on the SO of the members. The original Committee his opinion, too numerous to he effective. body, such as composed that Committee, liberty of discussion, had practically pie'. exeeditinit was incoasistent with their 'nous. Fifers was a proper number, and submit to the /louse names, to that at of Gentlemen, who. he trusted, wool found adequate, in every point, to the tr posed in them. He was sore they.would be of great alnity, possrsaiug inclination mote the public goad, and willing to d.v. time to that purpose. And it weuld reqi Maly time, but latinur, in no small degree, the ditties ci;" the Committee. These Ge; would also be found to act cordially fur the meat of the great end in view—that of 1 He wished to say nothing invidious of an, dneli; but, if a Committee was composed o bees so dissimilar iu opioion es those ells the Committee, last session, nothing for the , tags of the public could ensue from their mi On that Cosumetree. Gentlemen had m ter e , the business with views di•enoly hostile to as be and others thought it . necessary, sat presence served only to obstruct the labour. Committee. It was, therefore, nevessary the new Committee composed of Members of the one way of thinking Or the other. were so dissonant in their opinions as the Ir never would . perform any service. Wit iews, he would submit, fur the consideratio House, for a Committee, the names of Mr. H. Thorniest, I Mr. Alibis, Bitidulph, Barn g, S. 11,.urnr, Elba, • Breeden, Peek, N. Calvert, D. Ciddr, Bathurst, H. C. Combs, and a 14th, whose name we could not mai The CHAKCELLOR Of the EII:NM:En objection to any of the names proposed, bi tiered it as highly indecorous to remove Gel from this List, who had acted on the Committees, without any specific chargi brought, or judgment °insetted, monist ' The principle, too, on which the Hon. (,e formed his Committee, appeared to him reverse to what was right. or usual on sir horn. He never knew of each a way of ; the truth, as by choosing persona all wire currinz in opiuitin with, and in the view proposer of the questions. The way hi think better adapted to the discovery the public interests required, would be, men, diffeiing in opinion, to the Con and. from argument spina argiscueto, an ment against statemeid, collect what was correct and conducive to the contaien fur whet the Hon. Gent. bad said reaper' numbers, he had never heard any objecin last Committee, on account of its tomitsio contrary, the Chairman of that Cowie mentioned to him the necessity there *a.' its Members, and a motion to that miTu‘t withheld on account of the close of the Se-el; liniment being nearly at hand. Ile mould ever, object to suy of the haloes comer s of the Hon. Gent. provided he would cc: e addition of the following names front in,o room of the Marquis of Lsrultvn, n o Member of the House, he would pr. ; Ward; and of the six others he had to 3.irno were already osi the list of the Hon. Gent. Mr. Feels. I Mr.!). Gvily. Tne other four were— Mr. Patient Mr. C. Wynne. •••• C. Du d a:Du d a: l G. liuwurth. Mr. H. Tneteseron supported the na.oinin f Binkcs, who be thought had beta foisottor His Hon. Friend did out object to the Fro - ‘. possug the last Committee, but to the el; would be occasioned by the in;nglinx or whose views on the subject were in direct he I 1 to one another. t ., ~;;!e Sir J. N Borgne could not conceive ho w tic service could be promoted by appoitil , flg ir„ j` : mittee of men. whose opinions clashed r as to render co-operation necrrary. 111 , , a . Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Fermat) Ita.l ' me penitent of what mold be done by "' the Cabinet, and be now wished to 11) Mr. Ctt.t . i•FT said, that he intemkd to Ni ,nr. meet Session, that the Navy Estiut.stes should he pointed. IRV/F.IISM", BILL. • Mr. BAWILKS sa rl. that w l en he gave n o li re t o the Hope that he would move for I.n,e to bring in a 1141 lo render the Ileverpnet Ad he oot anticipate auy thing like cbltytiott to tt. It t•us therefore with surprise and canct.r.i that h.. of li a Right HOD. Frieid's 'lit...titian to 'lmen the ilitratou, an intention in which he feared that he still peritevere.t. Whatery his rea- sons fas so dmng were, he hoperl that. they, would not have the e ff ec t ofdivertim-„ 'Hama frinti that liar. which, upon two forms Of:C#PI01111. lit bad t11011:01t 14firovf to a lam. What his rea+o6ll were he gild nut koow„ hut hr eels .sure they were not uch as aught to ttifliiewee them to. indetta- ten' 3. 11, ass in their icrollectiwn, that thy Cota- ✓e IL ! r 'tiered it 'a th ey wend .n uttit JIM cr .,. PI tr.t!-:o cu. It 1 111. Ip the .1 Mania.' e with it. are tope , ‘L e ,„, augin Pnrt uf it, of rui.l ar ty oi ea hl •guitituti of a beta, les. Om IC drenvh e Ifity Al Ile. Ilrey, 7I ire ,n 2/ elr he t .1 ly for tile % etaiatrt, mem, sai e k non . o NAXCE ct fe re"' M. robe • e ptpgtlh 71 nay iu the e: could N g es lion he 1 4 4 of a CA I . ft there esqy li ne dithcolir b us to g o . UP! one.,fit Is II he LA-eiwe the aclerho t ji titter its, Mc ve. A pit o vlll4 P IP Ord dui I, beer iftlihtet and he woad 41 :at nuts' woulJ the trout old be rival I boo to put I D ..at I I require act rree, to foll I r of the Anne it of Reform f an) in.hut oiled of Most who Atoll or the odva hew meelms. It to ry, wattles, labour. of vary to haw mbers tithe. ilier. 1114 the low, they With thew eratiou of lit Me. It wake out. itar. hod of but eor.u. re Gentlemes ri the forums charge lute; ainst them.— • it. (;:fotlema him the etre to inch ores. ly of elittuag perfectly On • views of, OA 'ay he sulla reryo t f o 1 41 i be, 24 Comarotte tt, unit ..a:r. wale the we: .acn weal. is