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• his Gentleman (Mr. iota as the foundation g this petition, were similar to those Wet tepee netted by King James the Second,. the MN riot to his abdication. 11w learned Doane 'id, that the Catholics profess great reverence and obedience for their general councils. Now one of the decrees of the Council of Trent (and which Dr. Troy calls a general Council) is that the Pope has power to dispose of the Crowns of Kings, and to dispose of their territories. &c. to Catholics; also, that no faith is to be kept with heretics. &e. hese decisions of Councils, Dr. Troy is pleased to call " infallible things in point of doarine." He would ask, with what casuistry spiritual supre mo cy could be divested from temporal power?— He then proceeded to notice the lang uage of other modern writers, particularly of - Dr. Mil ner, whose definition of the obligat 2 on of an oath, was such as intended to shew that His Ma jesty'; Ceronetiou Oath was not binding. This is he who backs the Roman Catholics of this country — and who, in conjunaion with Dr. Troy, Mr. Pkwden, Bi.hop Usher, See. unite in !assert ing that the Roman-Catholics have never changed one iota of the tenets of their ancestors ! Re would grant that every individual of the state was entitled to equal rights, provided he did not bold opinions inconsistent with the welfare of that state Dr. Duigenan then went through an histori cal dednetion from the days of Queen Elizabeth, the circumstances of the Irish massacre in 1611, the plots against King William. Ste. and imputed them all to the bitter fruits of Rornish opinions.— Ile had little deubt but in a Parliament or toe, eighty Catholic Members would be returnee, and such a number of Catholic Members would make their own terms with any Minister ; probably get into their hands the whole patronage of Ireland, and then what security would there be for the Church establishment ? He concluded, by giving Iris hearty negetive to the Motion Mr. GRA C FAN then arose and said—" Sir, I shall endeavour to avoid the example which the lion. and Learned Gentleman has set me. I shall endeavour to avoid all animosity upon the one side and upon the other. I do not remember the minute detail of all the rebellions to which he has alluded ; but I do knew that the causes have long since ceased, and that the animosity which they produced should cease Also. I remember the cause, and I regret the animosity ; I wish the Catholics to forget both. The question is not, Sir, whether you will qualify a few Roman Cathy lies to hold the first offices in the state; whether a few Catholics are to sit in this House? It is, whether you will impart to a fifth of the whole tepulation of your European Empire that spirit, without winch it cannot be defended? a ques tion, Sir, regereing the happiness, the integrity. and the vitality of the Empire. These are the beilefits that must result from the measure, and before you will forego them. you will req sire better arguments than any v.iiiclithe honouraele and learned Donor has given. According to these arguments, the Irish Catholic is the irrecoacileable foe of the British Government. They say, that the Catholics are an execrable race. They nuke a distinelion between the people upon the score of religion, which I con tend is fallacious. and assert, that to be gond Ca tholics, men murt be b id subj4.l3. This argument, Sir,_ fesolves itself into eternal war in the bosom of Ireland, eternal war with England, and eternal peace with France. ( laud epp'ayse) The speech, Sir, of the learned Donor, on which this argument u maintained. and this doatine held forth. is such, that if any Catholic in time of war should publish it he must be indifted for treason. If the Ho nourable Donor were to be answered by examples, I could thew him ass excellent branch of Irish Ca tholics, the merit of whose public conduit forms a contrast with their private opinions ; but I prefer following his arguments, which resolve themselves into four different species, embracing the past, the present, and futute generations ; for it is well that he was stopped by the limits of creation, or he would probably have gone on and assigned some other. Sir, I know ye, y little of subjeas in which the Hon. Doeor is and °tight to he very learned; and, per baps, if I did, it would not be very grateful to the House that I should indulge in them. Although I shall not enter into a minute discussion, I must differ from him generally upon the several heads. I con tend, Sir, that there is nothing in the religion of the Irish Catholic irreconcileable with his loyalty ; that any member of that persuasion may be equally attached to the Government as any Protestant sub ject, and that their_ attachment is founded as much en the principles of their religion as in the exigen hies of their situation. The Catholics have shewn that they arc the subjects of the church, and not of the Pope, and even so much can be collected from the e lecrees of the councils of Laterne and Con stance. The latter only goes to the discipline of the chinch, and the former has so little to do with the subject, I wonder any rational man wonli notice it. Besides, it took place 300 years before the Protestant religion, to which it is represented as hostile ; and, to form an estimate of its folly and absurdity, it concludes with these words : " Virgins and married women may holiever be agreeable to Cod." But the business does not rest here : the matter has been aompletely settled. The Roman Catholics have obt.unesl from six universities, Louvain, Dohay, and four others, upon several poiats submitted to them. a solemn testimonial that they may be good and loyal subjects. In 1703. three questions were put to them, vie. whether the Catholics should acknowlege gm dispensing power of the Pope, his right to ab solve 'Weeds from their allegiance to their King, and one other, and the ans.-:es was, that to none of these was the Roman Catholic subjea. Rut ehe question has not been decided Gales by the an swers of the six Universities. The Catholics have, in feet, gone a great deal farther. Nine proposi tions have been framed and subscribed by them, in which they abjure all claim to Protestant property, and to the property of the church, in form and prin ciple. la 1793, the Catholics desired you to name yew own terms. The Learned Daher himself drew up the test, in compliance with the request which was sworn by the Catholics, who avowed their • allegiance to the King. while in it they disclaimed &I right to the property of the church, and of the - • • was formed into an oath, by the Roman Catholic ly by the Catholic clergy. IC Catholic has so right to has the Protestant a right Did the Doctor mow mend this test in order merely that the Catholic might perjure himself? Was it to Work no gond, to rectify nothing that was wrong, but merely to enable the learned Doctor to say to the Catholics taking the test, " Hitherto you have been traitors, but now you are perjared r If there he any con sistency in his arguroint, such must be the necessary result of his do trine; and therefore, I contend,that the Learned Gentleman is answered by his own test." Mr. Grattan adverted to the principle laid down in the speech of the late Earl of Clare, against the Catholic claim, in which be said, that his great ob jeftion was the adherence of the Irish Catholic to the Church of Rome, after which he thus proceeded : " Very well, a test is formed by a Protestant Doc tor, by which this class of the people become Ca tholics, and cease to be Papists, and yet you continue to visit upon them the crimes with which they were charged before the change. I will shew the Learned Doaor, that he has not only acquitted the Catholics, but convicted the laws. which he wishes to defend. Whet he says, every Catholic is an enemy to his King, he acquits the Catholic, and convifs the code. This, Sir, is the natural progress of all polemical discussions. You begin with a fatal candour, and end with a fatal violence, and in the heat, tempest, and fury of the arguments, the lips of the bigot tes , thy to his own refutation. lam told that the Irish Catholic hates the English subject, and the Protes tant Government—l deny the charge. I appeal to those Members of this I louse, who, as English Se cretaries, resided in that country, whether they ever I found, in the Irish, an aversion to Englishmen? To one Lord Lieutenant, an Englishman (Lund Fitz william), I am sure I could appeal whether the Irish did not approve of his Governmera, and love his person ? 1 want to know in what province or country of Ireland a Protestant cannot live in har mony., with a Catholic ; an Englishman with ~n Irishman? Will the representatives of Clare, Kerry, or any other county, tell me that in Ire land the people do not love the Protestant, or the Catholic, who uses them well, and protels them from murder and plunder? I shall lay it down as a principle, that no rebellion in Ireland has ever been founded in CAMS that are permanent. Reli gion, Sir, was not the cause .of the rebllion in 1641, nor of that in 68. The former was pro duced by the disfranchising of an less than eight counties ; and the second, by a similar policy, such as the driving of the Catholics out of Dublin, and other airs of severity. la the second, there was an abdicated King ar the head of the Catholics in Ire land, and domestic persecution was leagued with foreign conneCtion. If the blood that was shed in the battles of King William shall unite the tan seas of Protestants and Catholics, I shall rejoice in the death of our ancestors. If not, and it has flowed in vain, I shall suppose, that there is something pe culiarly uufortnnate in the formation of an Irish understanding, that makes not only the blessings, but the visitations of Providence useless, and entails the sufferings of their ancestors as a curse upon their posterity. I can icier, Sir, to the dispatches of successive Lords Lieutenants of Ireland, and to four Axis of Parliament, as evidence, that the Catholics have been loyal for a great number of years. I now come, Sir, to the rebellion of 1793. No one will say that that was a Catholic rebellion. Upon this sulrjeti. I can refer to the Report of the Secret Committees of the Houses of Lords and Commons, that 99,000 men, and nine counties of Ireland, were is rebellion. I can also refer to the official dispatches ft om the Lord Lieutenant at the time, that the Saadi of Ireland remained true to their allegiance. Now, which is the Catholic part ? Why the South; and the army seare marched to the north, while the Com mander in Chill applauded the loyalty of the south. Catholics, no doubt, were involved in it ; but it was a rebellion in which Catholics followed the example of Protestants. As hog, Sir, as you continue the restriaive code, you cherish a Ruda* 'mimes, you preset ve a something that makes every epidemic dsease fatal, which amalgamates with every thing defective or vicious in the constitution, and aggra vates a slight and chronic complaint into a mortal disorder. That the Catholics should be loyal under restrictions, and rebellious in concession, I deny. In support of this position, it is necessary to refer to the past ; but in doing so I shall not state any thing that may revive old animosities. Ido not wish to make the Protestant quarrel with the Catholic, nor the Catholic with the Protestant. Therefore. when I go hack to the rra of those concessions, I repeat it. merely as history. The era commenced in 1788. Two years after, we had no army in Ireland, the French commanded the Channel, and the Catholic aid the Protestant guarded the country. In twelve veal s after, the Catholics claimed the eleCtive fran chise, and, in i 3, one of the wisest speeches ever made from the Throne was delivered by Ilia Majesty. The Pal liament, however,would not answer. and, in stead of complying with the request of the Catholics as stated in their I'etition, an attempt was made to hang the Petitioners." Here Mr. GI Atte* went into an historical detail of the Parliamentary pro ceedings upon that occasion, the result of which, he said. was, the Bill passed the English Legislature, but was thrown out in the Irish, and the King was thus robbed of the gratitude and the people of the be nefit. " I have now gone through that part of the ar gument that affects the past and the pi esent, as con neaed with the question. With regard to the future, you must consider that you are now repealing the penal code that has subsisted for hundreds of years, and the habits which have grown op with it. But let us not deceive ourselves, or others, by over-sanguine promises and expectations of imme diate and complete circa from the repeal of the law. You cannot., at once, remove habits of such long standing. The operation of the repeal will. how ever, like the progress of the plough, though slow and scent, be effectual and certain. It will gra dually produce the full harvest which it promises, and it will stop the mouth of clamour with its own words. I consider the Catholic religion abstrafted from the Court of Rome, a icable religion with regard to public safety. 1 cannot suppose that there is any this in the climate of the coun try, or the physiaZ constitados of its inhabitants, by which an Irish Roman Cotholic must be of necessity &loyal, unless, as the Learned Doc tor seems .to thialt, the Roman Catholics are cursed by the book of Revelations, by the fa ther and by the mother. No, a bad system of policy is the some of the faults ascribed to the Catholic. Man is fallible; God is not. If I see a auabeekhy. epos a certain As o Ipessese the • , !M• • - • same regimen will agree equally well . with another. So the same policy which made you a great people will do the same for Ireland. It has been said, that the request, it granted, would only give the Catho lic a few seats in this House, and access to a few places; but this is every thing to the Catholic: it gives them an equalhy of right; it gives them the whole Parliament of (RA Members, by thus creat ing a common interest in every Member of this House, for the force of each part is the force of the body. The merits of the Catholics, as Chris tians, must surely outweigh their defects as Catho lics. several Acta, particularly that of 1778, as sert the necessity of admitting them into a partici pation of rights, and that of 1793 goes farther, and says, that they shall have all civil rights. Oh! but then they are not to have political power, and yet surely civil rights eaply political power. Here then the Act admits the Catholic innoxious, and condemns the restrictions. Here then I have the two seas identi fied, and the question resolves itself into, whether you will grant them the thirty-eight remaining offices from Which the Catholics are excluded ? It after granting so much, we quarrel here, we must be guilty of the greatest imprudence. Ireland helps to seven the ranks of your army, and she supplies one-third of your navy. If you injure these, the Catholic part c.f your army and navy, you injure yourselves. And you do a great injury to the Ca tholic understanding, by preventing that growth and expansion of intelled and talent' which the temp tation of attaining the highest station in either must create. By the distiudion, you place him under a ;peat disadvantage, and subjed him to emait from his inferiors in merit. You also do an injury to morals, by laying a foul:dation for hatred and jealonsf between individual: of the same community. You du an injury ti the peace of the country by perse cution, and encouraging the little man of blood to raise himself into power and consequence, by bar- Tossing and sexing his countrymen. Ireland exports five millions, besides one million of corn—and her revenue is considerable. A nation in that state cannot be far behind us. The law which gave the Catholics property, the eledise franchise, and so many other rights, gave also to the Catholic political power. The argument, therefore, which would refuse what the Catholics now ask, goes to take back every con cession which they have obtained. The acquiescence in their petition can be no abridgment of the Royal prerogative, nor cause of danger to the crown. Al. legiance is not to be measured by what the king has, but by what the subjed receives. Therefore is the Peer loyal by his title. the Commoner by his seat in this House, and the peasant by virtue of Magna Charta. As to the influence of the Pope, when he was taken by the French, and lost his li berty, he became nothing. Captivity was not a proof of his strength. One part of his power was excommunication. Arc you afraid that the Pope will excommunicate one-third of your army and navy ? The other popular arguments are, that the Catholic thinks every Protestant an heretic and damned. I might appeal to Archbishop Usher, whether the Protestants too have not in their turn thought hardly of their neighbours? But if you go on thus, the Protestants colleding every thing that can be said against the Catholics, and the Catholics every thing that can be said against the Protestants; you argue against the majesty of the law, of juskice, and of Heaven; and as sedaties of religion. you will get into a miserable squabble, and pull up the foundations of your faith, to fling them at each other. Will any man say, that the Catholic, now loyal, will become disloyal, by the grant of his request ? Will any man say. that if you put him into an office, you will drive him into rebellion? There is one argument no: touched upon, which I hold to be material. I mean the Revolution. If you make your Revolution of 1688 the measure of your policy towards Ireland, you will ruin that country. At that time Ireland laboured under a proscrip tion of trade, of Constitution. of every drug.— The Revolution of loia contains two opposite principles. One of them, which is the prin ciple of liberty, must spread and flourish with the progress of civilization, and that is the p:inciple which should extend to Ireland. The Petition of the county of Oxford, which states that the Ca tholics are hostile Rothe Protestant Government, does not do jastioe to your Roman Catholic ances tors, who preferred the Petition which constituted the Bill of Rights. It is not true that your liber ties burst foal) in 'a conflagr a tion. It was the fire light of this vestal ae which conduced you to the destined goal. But the course which you are now pursuing is I,:ss calculated to keep France in check than Ireland in thraldom. It has been said. that Ireland should be governed so as to keep the government strong, and the people weak. That was the principle which existed wised I broke the chain. Another said, it should be a sort dodger tuortaum---a party government. and a party religion. You said, upon the Union, that in corporating with the government is strength ; and will you say new that incorporating with the people is weakness? In the British Empire, you have possession of the finest part of the globe.— As there is no exclusive Providence that watches over that empire, so you should have no exclusive code nor inheritance, but make your laws analo gous with the laws of Providence, equal, universal, and extending alike to all its inhabitants. The Irish Yeomanry, who have performed such important service., ate, io a great part. Roman Catholics. If, upon the eve of any great battle, your General should order every Irish Catholic to quit the ranks; if your Admiral had ordered every ish Catholic sailor to go on shore. what woulerhave become of youf army and your navy A system of proscrip tion is, therefore, a great evil, and if it were univer sally odad upon, your army. your navy, and your empire, would soon evaporate. Why, then, take the words of individuals, of priests. and bigots, against these great and universal principles? You have been looking at the magnitude of your empire; now look to the fnagnitude of your danger.— The whole world ts now reduced to France and England.—A power like Prussia, for instance, may mist ass secondary power, and maintain a certain partied of respell and consideration ; but the moment that Eagiand ceases to be the first power, she ceases to exist at all ; and we know not soon we shall have to ight in the hist extremity for the honour and the glory of that high station. Examining this question, you say IreLnd is your vulasrahle part. • Why 1 Because you hays sot 'oversell her well. ID iniland, with Irish buds, I.ol.7Bllnrat „ ^ • with Irish hearts, sq . with Irish blood. a l e t h e fate of this greet. kuteaut. autio 8 1 ; ; T • m o re. be probably decided. In contemplation a(tbat event, you may vote your army ; bit minable that armi invincible, you should vote your peasioas, y o U want patience, but you wa morel you want t h e ar d ent spirits a the Irish ea attach them to your cause, and embark them in the . duatink s of your country. By granting the Petition. the Catholics will not get six seats in this House; but you will ge t three millions of spirits. Let your liberty, lik e your money, circulate every where, but centre no where. Savage, Arthur Youn gs in an , d l4 othe: ear * l tt ,it te c l i extol the natural wealth and capabilities of Ireland ; but she is still poor. from the want of that, t h e possession of which made you strong, and the withholding of which makes her weak. I shall always speak of the Irish Parliament with parental affedtion, and, I most say that, more for Ireland than you did in 100. But, ther e was one thing that ruined us. Upon the day &- Irish Parliament rejected the Catholic Petition ' l the voted their own abolition ; and, if you ad o p t t h ee course, you may work a separation. The-Irish Parliament, no doubt, gave many good and pious arguments for her condied, and there she lies with all her good and pious reasons. Why will you rust in search of old prejudices like a grown upchild, and buy foreigners with subsidies, instead of subsidisieg the affedionS of the Catholics by kindness ?--- The Catholics have got much. and they will he too wise to go to sea again; but, in my mini, nothing can prevent the success of their cause, bin some tut bulence on its failure. I would say to :he Protcstent, you have got possession of the land cad of the power, would it cot be wise to male it per. mancnt ? You have expensted twenty millions, and have an at my locked up in Ireland, which is lost to the empire, and only useful to preserve the Protest ant monopoly. Both Catholics end Protestants shoull be united. Both should fight the enemy, and not o e another. This would do more for you d,an a its oo a alliance or contingent troops. I know the goof I upon wfgch I stand. I know the truth of what I say. I can appeal to the past. eit was the objea of many of my contemporaries, the first men of the country, now no more, of Gardner, i f Daly, cf that great man Mr. Flood ; it was tl e dying wish of a celebrated Peer ; it was the wish of Doc tor Lucas; and yet these men had not before then the great event that has since happened. Pro- e bad not conquered all the neighbouring solo., and acquired such an immense preponderance in Europe. Would it not, then, be wise to if,: that now which was wise then ; that if any unisor change-should taktplece, we may not say that o-: were unprepared? Tour ancestots were fed upon ti is manna. The Irish were net so foitutate. fief of Europe is now against you. and you are di. . ded from each other—but I am exhausted."— Here Mr: Grattan abruptly concluded a most do (latent and impressive speech of nearly two low.. It commanded great aotention, but was se frequently linternipted by applause. we have been able to give, we fear, but a eery imperfct sketch of it. The ATTORNET.GEiNERAL, having taken a view of the subjed, at some length, cousadeted that the proposition before the truust could not gise t' at satisfy Zion to use Peitioaers, a hich they sought ; he thought it impossible for a Protestant Member of Parliament to propose to a Protestant King, a Ro man Catholic measure. iVe were not, be said. prepared to establish the Roman 'Catholic ilkligiva in Ireland, nor to tithe fiom the Protestants of that country, their land, revenues. and other property. With iespoa to the value of the me Buie to the R noan Catholic body, he thought it could hate no material eilha in favour of the clergy and the lower closo and could (oily he advantageous to those who sought great offices in the State, or were candidates for Wei in Parliament. Coesidering its operation on the Protestants, as well as the Catholics, it must tend to the breaking down of the barrier which sup. ported the Protestant's and no proposition was mote clear than where difference in religion divided the subj,•ds of a state, one party or other must have the ascendancy. The measure cool/teat conciliate the people of Ireianel, nor remove disaffedion, sad he rasher condemned the present moment as an impro per time for bringing the speedos forward. Mr. /h I.EXA !ODER spate with some warmth against the Motion, he said he was astonished to hear the fEn. Gentleman (Mr. Grattan) address the House as he had done this night 1 he had knosra him for a series of years beating down the laws and constitution cf his country /a food try if order! order!) Ile had taken a warm part in behalf of a bieanted peasantry, end in the time of rebellion, he ley dormant, while himself and other loyal mm we making exertionsto TDell it. Mr. WILLIAM SMITH expressed his wish to deliver his opinion shortly upon the subject; but if, however, he should perceive that this temper cf the House was not then to lima to him, he wouLi feel it his duty to move to adjourn the debate, A he was satisfied it was one of the most important subjeds which could occupy their attention. (A hod era of •fdjoitrx ! Adpirrn !) He w=ed the import' ' ante of the question, and considered it would be beneath the dignity of the House Trot t° give it the most faitr,aft it ul be adjournedl,and to this candid diseustoo duE : he therefore moved The CHANCELLOR of the 2 QUER acknowledged the importance of the subject t but o f could possibly be then decided. it would be m ost setisfadoor. However, as he peteeived that several Gentlemen wished to express their sentiments nom' , the question, he had no objedion tp *damsel the debate. After a short conversation across the Table tau tive to adjourning till Wedoesday, the Speaker ph: the question, and the debate was adjourned till tho da r. The other Orters of the Dar were then disposed of, and at THR h.E O'CLOCK this Morning th e House adjourned. _o_.-1 - - - • -- Tti usr Lama. Tha Zoysia., by of Their hdepesties. The Wheel d Fogtafte aids TM A'. tainist.—Cones Gikepee. This Ittpeatio, TbS Sebes' In R4orm. Aar which, 13areah Dom& with etildt lid :nests, bean for.the henefisol Mr. Menden. • 'STOCKS --Yesterday. 3 per Cent ltedue;d, Cent. Chattobl, Mri 303-..Chaniarn. LONDON GEoitos matoson, N. wych St. Cloaca s, eW published by JOIE Al RYDER, at the Once, No. IS. Bock of St. Clomo ot Church, ;Wood. when Ovlors for Oho Tirol AL (POW ° • mil be illaty suo.olod %P. toy - * AIP - T • It I tr 4 - 11 r. ovary , * o ,„„selovis FOR Tar' 111 M THIS PRE Weties TH3 a rink HEN, r Mrs. MI ,bn invveihm trumpet bl 3 f h wntien fa Or, To whie T 1 r.oieic (Ore Paw 'rec.% and Pia t tin. 49, Will Sus (no', in Ul T HIS laCt 01 14 ;IA 1110191, Mastri Wart trhiat 1 ITONC RR Nkes::es Ti Mrr.dy, Mr. 7.101,c.. will Iv THE THEA 1 •T MON; Nl..jeities RosaLod In Aet V a st panicaim t we, NS. K101441' Jo d wol ret tt To obie. Tickm skl Ph g her trug.^. No. tue *Jox.tlfhLe, Ally L nrxdfir , Frrmiis in Geller t PAY, WILL Yo6l IPerinn ar;;', Tpi M Brake. 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