The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-02-16 00:00:00

the uni n es to Pr' Of In/ as In sei a cJ ob ar so h ti tl r • 1 S. kr IY - Pt 0• it es lie 1. at 11l the honour to call him to his councils, he had un iformly eeted cenfor niabl y to his own conscious ness of reelitude, and from an unceasing wish to do every thing which appeared to him the most g e l ) . to promote and forward the happiness and ' prosper ity of the county. Vs ithin the short time o f peace, he had made the greatest exertions to make the establishment as efficient and respeaeble as possible ; since the commencement of the war, the ' erne exertions had been unremittingly continued. In 1804, we had 800,00 1 men in arms, ready for service ; and, at the present moment, we have egreater y f fo rmer sthn period. this country ever possess- d at anHaving made these observations, he would not trouble their Lordships Any farther at present than to say, that the pre sent motion would have his decided negative. The Duke of CLARE NCR began, by returning his thanks to th • Noble Viscount whe had just sat down, for some expression he had used on a former u reht, in allusion to some argument of his, that in elirering his sentiments, he would do so freely, let th, r i nk mei situation of life be what it might, of the e syr %seem he had to reply to. He hoped, as he inirrh t, p; , heel, have frequent occasions to allude to thttNoble :sedum and othersof His Majesty s Minis ters, that net only the Noble V iscountwould adhere to that resolution, but that every Minister would do the sum s a, he wished not any particular regard to rut rank in life which circumstances had conferred ,in biro, hut that he should be considered only as a peer of Park reient, and in that light, and that only, could he, or would he, wish to deliver his sentiments before their Lordships. He thanked the Noble Vis a also, tor a few of his arguments on the Bill, as they were the same he would use, only in a differ ent and opposite sense. He owned it was hut justice to the late Ministers to allow, that thee did raise a great military force, in a very short time, im.ne diately after the commencemeot of the war, which they had no sooner dune, than the present Mini sters raised against them a violent clamour ; mind them out of their places, and put them selves in their stead, and then brought in a Bill, which was to prove one of the most brilliant :nee- Wes that ever was seen, but which has turned out to be no more then a mere bubble or nullity. His Royal I lighness thee proceeded to state, that the velunteer system was subjeek to many defetts, cniefly from want of a proper portion of time to attend to their duty, and &mm a deficiency in the regulations by whirl they were governed, to attain the neces sary potection in subordination and discipline. He bad paid the utmost attention to the Volunteers, and was pertealy convinced of the existence of the deft& he had meat4oned. It was, therefore, the more requisite to attend to the military part of our de - ence—the regular army.—ln order to do this prop_rly, it would be necessary to divide it into its several integral parts, such as Militia, -.C.ivalry, British arid foreign, arid Intantry of the like deur oticeit. tie thought he could prove to their Lordships' se.isfaetion. that the army, thus constituted and divided, w..<, in all its parts, very greedy and alarmingly deficient in the neineers at wl,i-h it was . stated. He then adverted to t! eA: y, which, be contended, was also defec tive ; but out to so peat a t h. rye as the other branches of our Regular Army. His Royal High ness stated from the estimates, that the cavalry ought to amount to ikeleti men ; but, he said, they were deficient considerably upwards of 80(X). That the infantry were she less than during the last year, though there hal not been a single shot fired in anger between them and any of the enemies of this country, from tire Ist Jan. 1504 to the Ist Jan. 1805. 'That the &Adis ice the infantry since August were upwarde of S.'ooo, and the recruits only so mem: elative that number, as to mike the increase no mine than 110 ; so that the total deficit in the infantry was not less than 86,863 men ; a number which would constitute an immense army. What, he asked, could Ministers say to this ? And what must the country think of so alarming a deficiency, at the very moment when those ivlinisters have brought us into a new war? A war which they had commenced by diserAcing the-a:marls iif our naval glory, and making the first efforts of our fleet, to consist of an ea of pirecy. they talk of disposeable force when they are conscious they have no such thing ; though they are engaged with an enemy, who possesses immense forces, and resources, from the Mouth of the Elbe, to Male. It this be true, which he insisted it was, how, he asked, would it be possible, that, with et:eh a deficiency. Ministers would dare to send a single man out of the country ? If they contented them selves with burly resting oat their arms, without being able to attack the enenr, , he contended it inset prove the inevitable ruin of Ole country ; and, as ee hacked on this bill ti' be the principal cause of this glaring and dangeems deficiency, he would cer tainly vote for its immediate repeal. Lord MULG RAVE said, he only knew three compulsory modes of raising a military force, vie. absolute conscription; the system upon which the Army of Reserve was raised ; arid the present bill. The first of these, he said, the feeling and temeer of the country would not brook.— A bill had been brought in, to repeal the se cond, from a sense of its having become useless, and the third only remained, which, though it should cease to be able to raise men, might still produce money through the medium of its penalties. '1 wo other modes had been sug gested, as partial substitutes tar it, namely, gene rel service for a limited time, or raising men rink. The former was coadeinned by all erofessemal men, and the latter he knew tended to the deal action of the spirit and discipline of the army. After dwelling for some time upon these top ics, the Noble Lord proceeded to an !wet some insinuations of a personal nature.— He was or opinion, that the late AdmiiiistrAtioe was not sufficiently strong for the exigencies of the times ; but he nev e r had supported one measure inconsistent with that opinion. He wished to see an union of those whom he had for many years s'i?ported and admired, when acting together.— He had seen them carry the country through unex ampled difficulties in opposition to the man whom some of them sow supported. He did not think them ra Attached to that person, as not to hepe that they would return to their old friends. Thus touch he thought it his duty to say, in answer to the 'haree of derelietion of principle on his part ; a charge without any foundAtion, as he bad always w:.;r V.. :Vied upon the most uniform, open, and broad ground. Viscount SIDIIOUTH explained. Lord GRENVILLE—" The Noble Viscount (Mu'grave) has anticipated a great part of what 1 meant to say. Hellas stated, in terms as strong, and in a mode as perspicuous, as it would be possible to conceive, the total contradietion of the arguments urged in support of the measure. But let me ask, whether any man can vote for a measure, that rests upon grounds so contradietory ? I felt and knew the bill had and defedive, when it was trst intro . dined. The Noble Viscount admits its defitiency in re spet of its inostensible Ojea; but he says it may be adviseable to let it continue as a financial measure in relation to the penalties. I cannot agree, that it bad in every other particular, it ought to be con tinued for such a purpose. I cannot agree that a Bill, the most unjust and partial that ever was im posed, should be continued for the cake of the money it may produce. I think that those who are interested in the reputation of Parliament rind the safety of the country, will not be content with what is radically had, but that they will turn to some fixed and right ground upon which to rear a per manent and complete structure. Of course their first proceeding will be to repeal that which is al lowed to be bad and defeCtive. When the Bill was formerly objeCted to, the case was different from what it is now. Then the arguments against it were derived from theory, but now we have the evidence of praCtical experience. Those who felt it teen their duty to oppree it, have con sequently now a stronger reason to perform the same duty. They originally recommended another measure as preferable to the present Bill. Why then do they not adhere to their original opinion, now confirmed by experience, and adopt now the course which they originally advised us to pursue ? Is it that they have not getter means to carry it into effect, and are we. to be told that their authority is less now than it was then ? I agree entirely with the premises laid down by the Noble Viscount. 1 believe the measure originally bad and inefficient, 'but I differ from him in his conclusion, a • I consider that a good reason why it should be repealed. We have had eight months experience of it, and that experience has only served to confirm the original opinion of its ineficacy. The original question was, will the imasiere produce a large lot ce ? . That question has been now decided in the negative, and of course in conformity with the Noble Viscount's opinion. My Lords, I have stated how little this bill will contribute to the reputation of Parliament, if it is to continue for the purpose of revenue, leavirg the country :a suffer every inconvenience that attends it. With the -erasures proposed in the progress of the Bill as preferable to it, I do not profess to be inti mately acquainted, as they were suggested in the other House. An augmentation of the Militia, I believe, how. ver, was one, and to that plan, as a means of pie ividing a large disposable force, I shall ever glealy assent. Ido ales think, that a more certain me Ins to ruin the army, to destroy its energy, its discieline and spirit, cannot be devised, than that of raising men for reek. Upon this point, I can speak with confidence, because I was formerly of a differein opinion ; .but I now feel that I was wrong I request, then, the Noble Viscount not' to suffer himself to be led astray; and not for the sake of any local or pa.tial interests to persevere in a de t! Live measure, but to ;let upon a broae, solid, and pert:muscat principle, rejeting those defec tive exeedients. that boll cut only the promise of temporary and partial advantage. I did ez pc& that one of the first benefits which the country was to derive from the present Govern ment, would have been the repeal of this measure. The Noble Viscount, while he admits its deficiency, has, in its jestification, put an alterative ; but 1 du not think it a tait respresentetion of the ease. He says there were only three different modes, and having shesen that two of them were bad, he thence infers that the present measure, which i 3 the third one, must be, therefore, adopted. Now, I conceive this to be a false mode of reason ing. It is begging the question. The object of the Bill was to raise men. The question then to be asked, in relation to its merits or demerits, is, does it raise men ? New it does not raise men.— Therefore, it cannot be a competent measure, nor is it a satisfaCtury answer to say it raises mon-y. The measure of raising men for limited service has been also mentioned, and I differ much from those who argue against it. I have heard much general argument upon the sitbjeEt, but I never yet found an individual who could specify diitinCl, dirca, and particular inconvenience resulting from it. —lt was, however, intended, he understood, not to encourage, but to throw impediments in its way. For his part, he did not think the ex periment had been fairly tried. It should have been universally understood, and brought into gene ral use, before it ought to be condemned. The in tmdtietion of bertalions, and other new military di visions and ariengements, produeed jealousy, un certainty, and mistrust. It is not to be expeCted, that men will be at once reconciled to measures, in the duration of which they have no confidence. To have its full operation and effect, it must be diffused as a geneu el principle through the army, and be come familiar to our whole military establishment, as a part of its essence. It was not, he allowed, competent to produce a great force immediately, or upon the spur of the occasion—but it was surely better than a measure that had been fouad oppres sive, bad, and improduCtive. I hope it will be dist. 1 cussed as a great and important question, whether the state of the army requires any alteration ? When ever that question comes before the House, it may be expedient to consider the propriety of the mea sure to which I allede. It would be desirable also to put an end to all the complicated machinery, all those inexecuteble plans, that have been lately in troduced—and to have recourseto the original mode for recruiting the army of England. But, it has been objeeted, if you repeal the bill, you leave the country without adequate means of defence. That is not the case. Were the bill to be repealed, it would become the duty of the House to consider what substitutes should be adopted for those bug bears of supplementary battalions, &c. under the present measure. Upon the introduetion of any measure in its place, there would be nothing to pre treat any Member from suggesting, in the shape of a clause, any improvement which he thought pro per. The present bill is such, that if you want an asiditiouel force, it is useless; and if you do not want an additional force, it is dangerous, unjust. and partial. With these impressions, I have spoken against the present bill In all great public ques tions, I have always adheres to the principle of avoiding every thing like personality, and arguing them upon public grounds. I should, dicier; re, be glad to be released upon the present occasion. from the necessity of making any observation upon the condua of inOividuals ; but the Noble Viscount has addr-seed the whole of his spech to me, that I am obtged to depart from my usual course. To the charge which he has bron4it against me, it becomes therefore my duty to state my defence. Being put upon my defence, let me, my Lords, say a few words, not by way of recrimi nation or reproach, but strialy on my justification and defence. I am accused of having passed a great part of my life in friendship and intimacy with a man for whom I retain the highest regard and esteem, though I have ceased to alt in political con cert with him (Mr. Pitt). and to co-operate now with another (Mr. Fox), to whom, and his friends, I used to be placed in opposition. 'l'o that charge I most readily plead guilty. From my earliest years I have entertained for that man the warmest friend ship; and 1 do hope and believe, that there is no thing in the present state of politics, however we may differ in opinion, that is likely to dissolve it, upon his part or upon mine. That friendship was grounded upon a sense of his honour and delicacy, and not upon the insulting idea, that I must de grade myself to acquire his friendship; that I must have no opinion of my own ; but that to Feserve his regard; I must yield a blind obedience to his will. Can any Noble Lord believe that our friendship was grounded on such a principle ? I disclaim it— ( nod ,heeresig).—With regard to the other part of the charge, namely, that I now aft with the man and his friends, to whom I used to be in op position ; do not your Lordships know that by the usage and constitution of Parliament, I am at liberty to avail myself of the aid of those who happen to think with me ; that it is perfealy fair and honourable in the pursuit of any political obje&, which I conceive essential to the country, to take advantage of that fair and parliamentary as sistance, without which that objea cannot be ob tained (loud cheering ) . If I wanted a precedent. I might appeal to the very person whom I am charged with deserting, and whose conduit the No ble Viscount has not attempted to arraign. Again, after the country had been brought to the brink of ruin by a weak and imbecile Administration, when it was the universal opinion, that we had only one point to look to for safety ; when there seemed to be only one wish in the country, and that wish was to form an Administration, comprehending all the rank, talent, and property of the kingdom ; if it ise a dereliction of principle on my part to aft with the men, to whom the Noble Viscount alludes, in the manner I have done, what will be said of that very person whom the Noble Viscount so justly extols, who sought to introduce into His bin nty's Coun cils that very individual, with whom it is now dis honourable for me to aft, though out of ffire, and without the same weight of irresponsibility ? It was .honatiiable for that person to go into His Majesty's closet, and to recommend to alsigh station in His Majesty's government the very individual with ' whom I am now told it is a disgrace to co-operate. (loud cheering.) And what has beets the condua on my part which has merited this reproach ? I was 011 C of those who thought an adminlsfration upon a broad and comprehensive basis essential to the safety of the country, and finding a principle of exclusion afterwards set up. I refused to concur in it. I did not, however, blame any man. Not one word cf the kind ever escaped me, but I could not make myself responsible for au administration upon that ground. and contrary to my opinion. Such are the dereliction of principle and mcon-istency of cow* duff which the Noble Viscount has thought fit to lay to my charge." Lord MELVILLE, after some preliminary ob servations, said, that the Army of Reserve was one of the best auxiliary measures towards increasing the regular force, and when men were once aCCUS. toined to discipline, it became habitual, aid, in the end, either from example, from ambition, or from the additional bounty, great numbers were drawn into the regular service. He asked, were their Lordships now to be told, that after only a few months experience, they were to give up a measure which produced such additional force ? And contended that from the shortness of the time, from the opposition the bill had met with in its progress, and from the manner it had been introduced •to the country, it had not had a fair trial. Before their Lordships proceeded upon the Army of Reserve Bill, the mode of re cruieng was found inefficient. He therefore strongly alvis , d the House not to depart from an establish ed system, for the purpose of trying different expe riments, founded only upon theory. Under these circumstances, he persevered in the opinion which he originally gave upon this subjea, that this Was the best mode of introducing men from a li mited to a general service, and the moat salutary measure which could be resorted to. His Lordship then proceeded to make a few observations upon some personal expressions which the Noble Lord on the other side had thought proper to intro duce into the debate. Those theatrical exhibitions in Parliamentary theatres were by no means becom ing, that sort of personal rancour and personal abuse was more mischievous in its consequences than perhaps their Lordships were aware ot. lie as sured them that there were instigators enough, out side the walls of that House, who would make their own use of such controversies. The Earl of Fara supported the Motion. Lord HAMILESSURY and the Earl of BUCKISO.• it A 34011 as spoke against the Motion. The Earl of D•11041.11Y replied. The Question being loudly called for, a division took place, when there appeared for the Earl of Darnley's Motion 45—Against it 113—Majority tie. At HALF-PAST ONE O'CLOCK the House adjourned to Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. BAKER took toe Oath and bn Nat for Hartford Mr. WALLACE moved that the Revetend Chaste. Harry Had, Prebendary of ChreachurA,Orti. , o.l, be tainted to picatth before this House on Wednesday the 2n tit utat. ati St. Mario. Fes duvet'. Wedinintter, which wa. agreed to Mr. Rosie, by eonaniand of Hi. Maj.:sty, brought up an Account of the Ett.a - ndinary Expencet or the Army, from the sth of January lane, tre the corresponding day au IYW, whtth wan Otdeted to Le on the Ta , . Sir JOHN NEWPORT rn , „ved for nn Account of shins crewel on the Irish F.stah.:shment trice the ac the bp that were prosented, diaingttshing the dates Bret. seer.. granted .--.orile„..d. . I On rue Waters ..f Mr, RUSE, the Report of the Quar. Bill was d4-real rill Adcriday net. • A Menage from the Lonlc acquainted the House that their 1 • n41 . 14 : 1 " ltaA art. , ' Sr. tin' Du , * Millions' achequer Billie Ri'l, and qualifkation Indemnity Bill, and tire Land and Malt I and Stag., Welt II tls,„,..iiiriut .ineitdmett•• Mr. MAYNE :ires,:ii , ed • Petition fonn the Retail Traders of the town •.1 Ildfact, in tr.iiinil, co.nistain og of the hard ships eh , y ...trio , ' hi outset:tiente of the diit‘ of 01 per cent. trimu losp..r.s made lay Retain Tradeis, which duty, the Whole sale Te,..ler, a-te exempted fur n. Mr. FOSTER said he , hould net oL4e. to the Petition being brought up, hot he would not lentil 0-nt hopes to , he Petiiiontrs that he would C..kilCuT M the Rep al of the Tax, while the ex penditure of the country to much ex.:voted its revenue. After a few words from Mr. C .10t, delivered in an in nuili,ilr tone of voice, tire Petiti 4I Way uraeir i to lie tin the 'rattle. • Mr. MAYNE next presented a Petition from the Wtp.kile Traders in Betfiet, pray),,:: for the rv-,.eal of the T...:, awl al leging that the were waling to f0r..;0 the „mien. re---y en joyed, io this rowel, o , 'Cl the Retail Tradenh—Oitlerect to Its on the Table. Mi. MAYNE then gave notice that he should move fur that Repeal of the afor,said Tax on Friday next ;and (hat he ..hott'el ' at the same time move for an Account of the produce of the 'fax being laid before the HOLI , e• Mr. HUSKI'sSON moved that there he laid before the I r) ,9 l* .. • an Accouid of the Disorinot tin of the Money raised last year ida . pwsuarice of the vote for issuing 2,500,0001. by loan osf Ex chequer Bills. • The Luialtv Loan PIN was read a third time and pared. Mr. HAWTHORN presented a Petition from the Retail Tractors of Antrim, of a similar teudeocv to that pres-rated be Mr. Mayne fru ii Belfast, 'itch was orderer) to he o n the Table. He'next moved for an Acctunt of the Pmdnee of the 51. pee • , • . Cent. Duties on the Retad 'Traders of Ireland, and .:1„.. !or as Account of the Import Duties paid on tire sinie Duties in Enteand.—Ordered . • PUBLIC REVENUE. . Mr. JOHNSTONE said that he fonni k impos sible to form an accurate judgment of the Revenue of the present year, without having before him the '' 1 amount and items of the Revenue of the preceding year, which he did not find on the Ta!;le of the House ; the Distribution Table world not answer the purpose he intended. There was one circum stance in particular of very great importaoce. It appeared front the documents hitherto presented, that the Consoli hated Fund, which, in last yer...t's Budget, was estimated at 50300,u001. hid, up to the 14th of Fehrtrary, amounted to no more than 1,500.0001. which lett a deficit of 3.500,0e01. ill the account of the public revenue ; and in another item, estimated it V 2,000.0001. he toned only the cri of 4,5 re w 43,oooi whiendefelcations, he thought, it ist . rti•d some explanation. t . Ii;IVSKISSON said, that the account was - lAltretattted, on the Estimates as yet presented, up eel hat Wee received to the Sth I.f Aril. ar,d, that the illietior receipts were now preparing, arid would be laid before the House as soon as pcs-ibiN an 3 as far as they could at present be made up Tire Ac counts of the produce of the Constlid,ited Fend, which the Hon. Get:tleman spoke of, were only , made up to the Ist of Jat,uary. Of course there would be a considerable sum to be added to the 1,500,0001. stated ;n the Account; but, upon the whole, there must be a great deficiency (rum the Estimate of last year, which he confessed hicnreit n. 4 • prepared to explain, but which, he made no d, oho, would be satistadorily accounted for by .Is Right Hon. Friend (Mr Pitt) who was not yet in the House. Mr. JOHNSTONF. then moved, that *ere)* laid bef•re the House. an account of the Eritheqeser Bills issued in the year I WA, now nut tartsfizsg, wed charged upon the supplies of the yea? t? , 1.0.i. Mr. HUSKISSON said he had nu objection • te . the motion, which WAS agreed to. . COMMISSIONERS OF NAV 11. rNcirrty. • t Mr. GI I,ES gave notice that he should submit is motion relative to the Ctornmissioners of Naval En-" • • quiry, on Monday se'noight. Mr. KINNAI RD te•ished to blow sef‘en the pa.. • 1 pens moved for relating to this ft:Ned would lee ~, -• produced ? a Mr. WM. DICKINSON replied, that the p-- .. pers were preparing with all possible erpeclitint, and, ' he had reason to think, would be delivered on Tues. .. day next. .. • . ABOLITION OF TfIE SLAVE TRADE. Mr. WILBERFORCE said, he did not fird it necessary to trespass much upon the time at the House, in arguing a subject which had obtained their assent almost unanimously. in the list session of Parliament. He should, theretore, unless some unexpected objedions or opposition shi•uld arise. confine himself to referring to the resolution agreed to for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, in the last session ; which being read, he moved, that the House should resolve itself into ll Committee ot tl.e whole House, in order that he might have leave to bring in a Bill founded on the said resolution. General GASCOIGNE s a i,',. he cht;,. 1 ,1 t .,..s I,ls objedion to thistneasure. so as to costa. ts• 1 •°, , Hti up& the presets motion ; bu:, as the Lop. (ice tleman thought proper to refer them us a resoluttem of last yea-, he wished to remark, that circum stances had occurred since, sufficient to make a groat alteration in their sentiments. He should ex plain what these important circumstances were, when the proper opportunity rifeted ; but he WAN desirous of giving notice, in linti,:e, that he should oppose the Bill in every stage ot its progress. Sir WM. YOVNG said, that he should sheet ! is aversion from this measure, by epposing :I: e-briii- it t; in of the Bill in the outset. The agitation ref t:..; measure had done considerable mischitf alreads ; but much more would ensue, if suciaquestions 01,041 be persevered in. The resolution of last year, aul the bill founded upon it, were no guide to their con du .% this year, and could not be referred to :14 a measure they stood pledged to. The wisdom o f Parliament, upon important suhjeds, allowed them the power of revision, in ads pissed ceen Li the same ses.ion, and the different stages, no lewthan seven or eight, allowed for the discussion of tray bill, could only be allowed, in ceder chat they may _ . WU, COILICI °my change their first determination, .if sufficient re:.sone should be assigned for it. He understrod it to be the intenti.sn of the advocates of this measure, to force the bill precipitately thtough the House. All he wished for was, to allow the usual and fair gra- dations and delays, that the opinion of the House should no: be taken by surprise. Mr. FULLER said a few ward), which we cooki not diain:ily liar, but understood them to be in op- position m tae Motion. GenerJ TA RL FON sail, that th,,ugh the ttis e was stated Lest year to. be upoa the decline, ..e should shortly have to present to the House a Pitt.