The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1810-12-22 00:00:00

what anarchy must arise if they were to give up all he Acts which had been passed fur the last JOCi years, on the principle that the different metals did not fully and fairly represent the coun try !—/Hear, Atsr.)—The Hon. Baronet' had, not many months since, produced in that Hinson his plan of Patliamentary Reform; intending. of course. to remedy the present defects in the Repro. seutation by • Bill for that purpose; but if this was not a legal Representation of the People. what right had they to act under such circumstances?— He thought the delay was of * most dangerous na ture, and he differed from .in Hon.. Gentleman ou the floor, who had said, that if a farther delay of a few days had been mowed, he would, hove slimed to it ; for, when the country was in such a stomas the present, it became the day of His Majesty', Ministers to take the speediest mode of providing for the public safety. ft was most improper that the Government should be left uncontrolled, for so great a length of time, in the hands of such Minis ters. No man participated more warmly in the ge neral feeling of regret for thesituatiooot His Majesty than he did—it was ioopossibletodeclare how much he was beloved by his subjects—placed iodic digui fied siittation of Head of the State, every peraun most feel iuterest . ed in his well'arr—and that feeling ap plied also to the otherMetithere of the Royal House, The Right Honourable Gentleman appeared to have founded his proposition ea the precedent of 1788—but he could never Admit the propriety of doing so, as considerable dissimilarity prevailed be tween the two cases. Supposing the mode of pro ceeding either by Bill or Address to be equally lawful; the question then must he, which was the more expedient? It certainly appeared to bim that the mode by Address had decidedly the advantage.—The Right Honourable Gentleman thought that they might introduce whet restric tions they pleased into the Regency Bill, in the same manner they could de in any other Rill ; but he thought that the ac ceptance of the Address by the proposed Regent, being a voluntary act, was a better security for the due administration of his office, then any restrictions they had at the Revolution ; it was that security which they had from King William. Ile refused to give his Assent to two Of the Bills which had been passed by the tree Howes of Parliament but that Parliament finally triumphed. Sneaking of the Regent abstractedly, he thought the pro ceeding by Bill, looked like a busiaess of compul sion cod, reasoning on general priucipies; it was much better, in Ins opinion,. to have the cement of the proposed Regent to an Address. Mr. STEVENS observed. that he differed entirely from the li ii. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett), who.had paid a tribute to the speech delivered bye Learned Gentleman (Mr. Horner) o• the precediug eveeisig, It was somewhat singular that he (Mr. Stevens) dissented from every part of that speech, with the exception of the single point, to the truth of whicho the firm. Bart. would not agree. That point was, • that they were not to look for law to direct them in such • case as the present to the ordinary proceed ings of Courts of Justice, but were to seek it in the Records of Parliament. And this principle he would always streuwously maintain.. He was also of opinion, that the precedent of 161111 was of the iilleasod• waltso. That prces.lont, ea kmrep simited, certainly did not arise from. the want of a Gveat Seal. The Monarch had then abdicated the throne—and the principle was left fur us to &INV, ot any future time. Blackstone ohaerves r that the law was so laid clown, that in case of the abdication of airy future Monarch, the power of providing for the vacancy might be k now it to devolve ou the Linda and Commons • and, fact, the precedent goes to support the mode of proceeding at present adopted. It is absurd for Geode men to say. t heti he proceeding is unconstitutional. It Metre practice of the Cousti. union which makes the Constitotio• and it would be found, that not more than a single precedent could be adduced, on which some of the taint ese sential principles of the Constitution Willa founded. For instance, the right to , the Crown is hereditary —hut when it devolves on. the female liar. contrary to the common law, no copereenary is adositted.-.. and the eldest daughter governs by the tight of primogeniture. 'This principle of our Constitu tion is founded alone on the precedent of Mary and Elizabeth. He did not consider the precedent of lAN as less than a new canon iutrodueed into the Constitution of Blighted; which provided, that, in every temporary stiSpensien of the Crown, the power of providing for, the esigracy should de volve upon the two Blouses Of 'Porlisoneuts which were the legal Representatives of the people.; pod that Thar provisieu should be made. not by Address. but by Bill. The isitMe lee Address was at that period moved for, but the more collet:Wiwil method, by Bill, .sas carried. With respect to the pieced. tit of ine. it would he observed, that all the Acta passed by the house (which was ()pealed by Commissim,)Aurimr, the illness of His Mistily, were, on his receNery, folly ratified ; which formed • complete ptccedent. Mr. Stevens them coritead ed. that, on the ground of expedience, the proceed ing by Bill was preferable to that of Address—and denied that the voluntary acceptance of an Address by the Regent was snore likely to lie attended with beneficial effect, than the restrictions ta(• bill; lot he thought with the lion. Oretteman (Mr. Lambe) that persoiral confideuce should not he the basis of any Legislative Act. He dif f ered from the Gentle men opposite as to the delay which had taken place —that delay, he thought, was perfectly right—and if the Ministry had not given a fair opportunity for His Majesty's recovery. they world not have ilia charge/ their duty to the worthiest Monarch that ever graced the British' Throne. Mr. Stevens con cluded his speech with a very elegant psneglric on the paternal feelings of 11is Majesty —whose illness had been occasioned by his teutler attention s to • beloved daughter. Mr. WILI.II4MI l` vane disapproved of intro ducing matters which were extraneous, and only tetutiog to touch ins feeling. of the Hutt.... Ile enertureet with ethers in regard to the many virtue, Of Fli• Hord Il.ehness the Mince of Wares ; but it way to be recellected, they were assembled to de bate a great constitutimial question, hirolviug roust ignpOrtiiiit objects, and which ought not so be coati-el either one way or another by the influence of persons ocenpying high sittodiens of Government. It way, in fact, a question wfich *not to be tri.ens.ed with I-, Terence to ' tL'• • ro of Kiiag of this Realm, and net merely as supplying the deficiency in the au. thority of the preterit Sovereign. He should give his full etid complete assent to the 'Resolution de ckle-Mg it to be the duty of both Houses of Parline meat to provide for the deficiency in - the Regal Power. lie thought that to propose the previous question upon it, wiss throwing a doubt upon the matter winch the Resolution itself did not war rant, mid he should therefore vote uguinst the Ameaulinent that had been suggested. As it had been thought for the cotereniency of the house to take the third Resolution also into consideration at the same time iiith the other, he could not avoid stating hi- felt it unpleasant in differing from the opinions that had been formerly entertaitied, and still entertained, by those whom he must love and . respect; but he should feel that be acted impro perly if he waived that opinion. It had been said, that if they proceeded by Bill, they had a law which the Ceorts of Justice must take cognizance of—a law which had received the Royal Assent and the Great Seal ; mil that this was not the case if they proceeded by Address. lie could not see hew this could be the case when the form of the cornrnission was looked to. Was it to be inferred, that merely by affixing the Great Seal to that Commissiou, the Regency Bill waykregain effect ? It would be, in fact, a *wilily, foe -no Court. of Justice could pay attention to it. It was no Act of Parliament, for it would be seen by the form of the Commission, thet it had not received the King'. Sigeature. That was a thing which could not be *applied by any means whatever. After both Houma have declared that the King is not fit to preform the duties of his office, if they were then to proceed to pass acts of another kind in this way, no Court or subject of the Realms could be bound by them ; for the Law expressly required that it should receive the King's Signature. If no resolutions or addresses are to be thought binding, then no act elsatever of the two Howes could be thought binding. Whatever su perstructure had bean raised it was necessary to come to the,base, if tbey meant to apply it to any beneficial ism-pose. By their second Resolution, when corned, there could be no doubt that the do ty of supplying the detHency naturally devolved upon them, and therefore whatever steps• 'they adopted would he eenally bind*, whether it were by Bill, by Addrees, or by Reseiutioo. Suppose, for iustonce. that there was at mat a Resolution agreed to, that the Prince of Welts should take upon himself the Regency, it would be equally binding upon the Country to coarsely with that Re solution as with any other mode. There was no precedent in 1768 to bind the House to proceed by one mode in preference to another. The Honourable arid Learned Gentleman who had just spokes, had argued that they were under an obligation to pursue the preceilentof IVA, es it established a kind of new canon of the Constitu tion ; hut he (Mr. Wynne) thought the pmeedent of the Irish Parliament was equally Weibel; Imo° them, as the two countries were new merged into our, and it could be oply mere .wetter of opinion what precedent was thought best, the ewe being equally constitutitmal as the other, But. it was said that the precedent in Epgleurl was ratified eif terwardie and that the King gavellis Royal Assent to the Bills that were commemed in the Horse of Gnomons. lie should beg to remind them, that when *Kill left the House, it was smoked as having been read three them mid no.person inquired fur ther emicerning it, nor was it inquired into how the Royal Asarut had been goat) to was a matter of mere regulation, or. what might be termed a technical object. They had always cmisidered in that House. that the King's speeches were the apaches of the Minister, sod that the Minister was merely approving of his own speeches when he was proposing to address Hi. Majesty ; and itava evidentlemit the wish of the House upon the former occasion to raise discusaion by any acrimonious observations. He, however, thought the Address would be the mast expedient mode of proceeding, and the lisnitatinos, if Mottled therein, would be equally effectual—in short, by the mode Ministers were proposing, it appeared they wished fur mottling so much as delay. They would first have to com municate thus Resolutions to the Lords, then wait till they were returned, then come to ether Reso lotions—and afterwards, having a Parliament regu larly opened in pursuance thereof, and thee intro doting the Bill through all its various stage& He should think that the smiog of tinworks*, such a long delay as they had already experienced. was a matter of considerable importance. It bad been said that Ministers might act upon their own re sponsibility. and exercise 0%4141.61 Functions: and a Right Honourable Uentleinau had put the case the other night--ehat a Regent might be so weak as to alter the policy which had hitherto been followed by Ilse Majesty. la some cases great mischief might arise to the country by Minis ' Mrs bring left with the control of the Executive Powkr. ffeshould. wish to. know whether an order sent from the Secretary of State to Lurd Welling. too to aster his plans. and supposing Lord Wel lington differed in opinion, could such an order he , enforced ? A Secretary ol Stele might violate all truth, and say that he had the King. command (,r sock en order. which conduct would be directly. in the teeth of the Resolution of both Houses of Par liusinent, which had. declared the King incapable.— Soch an order would not be valid. and Lord Wel lington could nut be impeached for disobeying it. and could not be tiled by a Court-Martial. Ile completely agreed with the principle stated by Lord Camden in Me, that thcrewasa complete stoppage of the Royal functions, and that no orders could be binding upon those to whom orders were sent on. der such • predicament, There was a complete distinction. according to the Constitution. between the Executive 01111 Legislative functions; and, therefore. he could not but agree, that the two Houses should possess nu Executive Power, except in cams of dire necessity. But we acre not justified hi taking one step beyond absolute necessity. In the case of the Revolution, absolute necessity core tinny justifi-d such a proceeding. ‘Vhen there were two courses.tlye one subject to exceptions, and the other not, cettai that mod e th e l east excel,- tiohable should he adopted; and that mode was certainty that which proceeded immediately to fill up the vacancy ; instead of adopting tI4 'nest ex ceptionable anode, by the too Hitters Inking upon themselves to iiess an Act of Parhamout without the Royal Assent. If the two line.. a of Partite meat were to pew laws esthete the Kong's Assent. they mig ht, upon the same footing, pus a Bill to abolish the Kingly authority altogether. _••Tbe pre cedent at the Revolution was much preferable for imit a ti on to that of nett ; for, in the former case, the Bill proceeded to its full extent, a new govern ment was estublished under it, and acted under it. —lt had stood the test of time, and therefore they might argue that it was fit to be followed.-- The latter precedent never was acted upon, and never went to its utmost extent. It was well known what inconvenience would have hero fnupd to exist if it had taken effect. No pert of it stood the test of time. It might, if acted upon, have brought about a revolution; and, therefore, not knowing what evils it might have effected,he did not feel it entitled to the saute respect as the other pre cedent. Upon all these grounds he should support the Amendment that was moved last night; as, in his opinion, an Address was the more expedient measure, and even less illegal than the other. -Mr. WlLeeneuece said, lie still adhered to the sentiments lie had expressed upon the former occa sion. Nothing was more recionkable throughout the whole of this discussion, than to hear Gentle. men railing againit the plans of others, while they seemed blind to the iinperfeetions of their own. The only point they seemed- agreed upon was, that they were in a situation that some men rule or 'nether should be adopted to supply the deficiency in the Kingly authority. Hr should ac. knowledge at once, that they were transcendnig the ordinary hiss of constitutional proceedings, 'even in the Riglit firmourshle the Choucel hir of the Bache. qu:r'i measure ; but he would ask, tbd they not do thersame in regard to the other mode by Ad dress? The objections that had been urged against the proposal of a Bill under the existing ci.i;uin stanees, as to its but being authoritative in Courts of Law, were such as might be urged also iu Courts of Law, with regard to Covenants as to Es. tate.; but they werenever heard of. The Gentlemen who support the other ineiribre, urged it as our that was not objectionable . at all, and they at the same time dignified it as being bold and manly, and more simple in the creation of a Regent.— While, however, they urged that much in its fa vour, they at the same time say that the Regent is. to have ao more power than what the Houses of Par liament choose to give him, as if they were in an un. , derstanding with hum, that he is to agree to all the restrictions they may choose to impose. That was in truth entering as it were into a prtvate under standing with the Regent, and at .the same time imposing any sort of terms, cenditions, restric. tits" sad regulations upon him, they pleased and so far from its being a manly and dignified diode of proceeding, it was not, iu his opinion, so dignified and so manly as the other. When he considered the acuteness of the underetanding or those who formerly proposed the Bill in 17110, upon a similar calamity, be could nut help twin; reminded eithe former proceedings awl the acrimony that then' strewed itself. He was glad the proceedings of the -present day were not carried on in a similar KJ:li ner. He believed, thy cause of the former din'. i ence of opinion, in those who proposed an Ad dree.„ bud, is a great meuvire., originated out of a supposed claim of right, 'Non such a • claim, to be soluitentiated, wonld have a, strong tendency to make thing* revert to that channel which in times nut like these might be productive of most pernicious effects. Whet was there in the present instance to settle this matter so much as an adnerence to precedent, treading in the same steps, and pursuing the same line of conduct that both Houses of Parliament formerly pursued ? If we de viated from that line, there was no saying what con. segnencra such deviation might lead to. It was surely inure important that every plan of of restric tion should be clearly defined, than soy particular one should be afterwards selected and' imposed.— It was a circumstance that did honour to our sliest. INFO, that there were anodes of proceeding in every case that can occur iu the Constitution of our coon try,that might prevent armies being brought into the geld, and deluging the country with blood, as we had often seen exempldied in regard to other nations. It was not or accnuitt of the peculiar character of the Prince of Wales that we ought to deviate from any of those principles of the Constitution which tended to the security and happiness of the people.—lt must toad to the honour of the Prince of Wales of the present day, that he waited till his proper time Afield arrive to let them know his own sen timents upon the subject ui.d.r discussion, knowing well that Parliauseirt was accustomed to consider such matters according to the principles of the Constitution. He should be sorry to be it n • derstood nut to subscribe 'wittily to his Royal Highness's excellent character; Mir that character ou t ht not to sway their proceeding-, or slier their constitutional mode of prnceeding. West the House did now might be made a precedent in fu ture; for even were it erroneous, it 'night slide gradually into the natural or presumptive right of the Crown, and might be the means of making a Regent claim privileges as matters of right. They ought to remember, that if they acted in one way, they might fitroi,h the mains of deciding peaceably such questions as this its futuie ; and if in another way, they might revive those causes which formerly kept the country in blood for nearly half a century.. There was no knowing what consequences might follow from establishing a bad precedent. There was no saying what the a ails might be in such an important matter as this; but there ass mint the Lune danger in altering ally subordinate parts of the system. It would do high honour to the times in which they live, that they were settling the greatest and most important interests, which iii other times sod tinder other Governments have brought Armies into the field to decide such disputes.—Geuiletnen slid not seem to bear in mind that the system now adopting was only a temporary spite NI ; but he re membered that that was a great ground of the argu. ment of the much-lamented Statesman Pm), when he established the precedent of 170 s, roil in which he displayed tektite, perhaps it might tee said in a greater degree t h an on any other oec.o.ion. If Gentlemen un hi* (Mr. W.'si sAe of the House considered the difficulties of that It , -eht lion. Gentleman's ('sir. Pitt's) situating. lie was confident that even they would bear testimony, and willingly pay a tribute to the taleats nun integrity's, displayed at the particular time he hail alluded to. They were suns to act upon similar principl es , ar.d to carry on the Eseutilive power without les%Poin- , the authority of the King whe n h e resumed ih4.!ios of Government. When he hear repeatedly poiliting out the imperf Constitution, he might surely be the excellencies of it, I hese Genf anxious to di,po,sese that Aesenth: which at other timer they were der to it. The Heuse had ti, selves, that if they a•lhered in the p to the precedent estnleishol, they woi were a Polar Star, that woidd dire( ever might be the darktietia of thi storms of the sea. Mr. STEW ART we ontlerstood to 9; in support of the mode of prncet ilii and that he approved of the piece lc ne the Irish Parliamelit, lie having Levi Coininn•sioners who preseited the A, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. Mr. (iRATTAN wall, now that it upon nll hands that the Royal rune' porarily suspended by the malady len the person of the King. il.e , Lament were certainly under Ilie nee. plying the defect ; for if it were t. cloy at large to meet upon sorb t in that case every thing would go Kiel anarchy. One person would be, att and another in another way, each su; acting accoraing to the Late and the pile of the Constitution, as the comic tamly an undoubted right to act u koewis and estatiliehed principle, Chi is the supreme law; bat as the large had ceinieitted their representy Homes of Parliament, he r.. 14 jnv it that these Houses lied a right to sin cielicy. It was consequently the it, Houses of Parliament to do that vela, quired of then), by an Act of Legislai tiug themselves into the con.titiiii •n; capacity to legislate ; buf is order Si, into a capacity to legislate, they I,:ettst‘ In order to put the Cotintr;. tato pos . ; real principles of the 'fish Cements Hoots were au! ;prised by the cone ply the defes.,, by creating a third pow, Inanity etways acting upon the neee.sii mg that Cutistitutiou whenever it tell incapacity or deficiency. The rigl Houses to do this could not be dot pitted, but it was net similar to any r legislation, as they cannot legislate wit. Estate. It was an act of power to pun the powers of the Constitution. Tl Matinee of power qualified by the other wag aim Act of Parliament, the princinles of the Constitution. be the two Houses of Parliammut. T; was a just, fair, and intelligible ma t Mg; he was warranted by prereth' so; but the beat precedent we had . that of the Revolution. It had been it was our that could not be refers that instance, the King had abdicated and the preset was tine where there defect ta lie supplted. The precedent volution. however, hail not only in a stances been established, but had bees trod. it we a precedent to which the obedience. ft was a precedent that real .xtent of the pewees) of the two ventions ; and evinced, that the pee, dience to suet exertion of !maw: wi precedent of 17elo was incomplete, passed the two Houses. Souse way or must be an act of power. The am:Unit by the Address of the Two Estates tie prver, and the doing it by Bill was power ; butt null there was a cliffcreuri ca.) modes Of proceedttig, which veto more elt4,loe thin the oilier. The of of power winch they already had, and 1 they had not. They had tin power tro live act, and they had no power over of the Crown, except to punish them ' deeds. Ile therefore improved of the seeding by Address, because it did the previous necessity of creating a by passing an Act of Parliament, , the name of one of the Estates (if so called), the enpacity of velnell we denied. They had at once declared pecity to do that act ; but which, I were actually doing, upon the presui Mejesty's inctepaciiy. It would be a Act of Parliament, for the Two Houser meta could not make a law but in the Kite!, whom they had already dreier this ohjected. upon two grounds, to the ceerlit l g by Bill ; because it exercised power of the Klog, and then assumed power of legislating without the concur., King, by virtue of getting possession ..rreist ihetronent of power, without vent and knowledge of that POMP whose consent no Bill could pass. It that the two Houses of Parliament I command the Kiug's Oliierrs, in cage incapacity ; he did not think that it I pose that the two Houses of Parliameie der to the Commander in Chief, and beyed it, they could not punish him. not commend the executive Officers of They could not pees a law to levy , proceeding by a 11111 west not merely to mg • Regent, but upon the. same grow imahine they could !moved to eels of Suppose they patted a law to levy toot sequently a disobedience of that law an officer executing it were murdered, Court find the King's subject guilty such a case ? They were assuming a, power which did not commend the servants Crown, and an executive power which mend the stihje.ct. They were thus ti shin of the political capacity of the Kii.„ of his !.mutt. If they assumed that pohi city of the King, they did the very r which sres 'cited to have been done wit( an army drawn up by the King. and Parliament against lout ; in that matt stated, that the political power of ti that power which they were endeavor serve, although the personal Poems"! King was on the o ther side. end the were in be limit:retool as lighting fie and not agetinst him. It was evident of trimming the Kings political row tGc iviAtarhyptilatiou ran ts i t lc , e t Gli Oteellntotef 11 1: r. t, kwroaulltudwarlitoit sots entleine n 1 6 °HD' 16:y o f amen, ae eit the pow ei demos, to r Inm an meet them , who 6°141:' hero one of tl :: title tut t Ir„fa! :1 tln ou ivt.t. • huil, ~,,td I lonrms of par o:6:lliielkalicietiee":4ll:l_,teyhti:tnhar, h :46 1; by Addr weld ck to primer ii.:cer.sitv 4 oil l it ie t .s c i ii ° ,, l th ir ti l i gl i ni. g et i s l y ti l e , :i t o P , : i e, C i e t o , , il e, • jtire, l; : et b P o r l' i l upon th e „,.1! Ti .e community • .: troy 4 iiitied win supply the d e a 3I dist) , of the is tor, slat ion ; I 'nal .I.lwo • "'I a 111,„., e 4 list first create tiny. psis e,sion of the tie : 41 ocurnouity to sai " le cr of lou l ti t tlY e " d ; t ieftP a d : 1 7 e g e rthi; / ::' , :4' : : : lilt or the Is 1111, ai;d , 0460 lilt di aneat put tile The on• ma t i c y, necessity, at Lit, accorthng by the King lord This he thou 4 denttle ° in f o rhinkm • ghttille fmt ir fin history we r 4 he been vaii, flirt Pr tora 'frrede it e edtbe t l o . , a, osn ere was merest !dent of the Re s,drah I • variety of d'ill been complete" diagl the people wu . thin skewed sce, Hoover, er C Irte esple pod while the of dow. as it the Awl r or other the, ewe noting a Reou he a • win en act • grA as another act One . %re boween t Palm, moiety' the so kau e one was an act wt Lid the othrr one clout to do en oliees- Peer the Set V31,t5 //Medi Ith for their w in he mode of lid not presait:e gr e w,; • Third &tee id 1 : i end slimming we rt if it might he ' sere • was positively , l : tr i e lo rl w t e h v e e i r e . 'Light Ant they n t sum piton 14 11:9 a nelf-essvieted nouns Paris-VG" 1.1 the mimeo( elle tared ince. alts, le :he mode of p.o- asil sod the political 03 th , -• Lied the eupreine Lem t, .I‘arrence of she Aerate isession of et, LI I hoot the c*:;- lower withoot It had been said tnutn t had a right to Ms ta e Set l neat e ewi ci .at f se t e h ohn e t ens King's uor. id that he dm. lane u. They could tainoi sof the Crown. Declare y s tax. Tins! (*So ti to the appotut- them rounds it 'sigh: re of another sot. to tone, sod eon- I Y tt *iv emoted, sad law Fred, could any 'y of murder is sorry 4 an executive ti,., servants of the gager, eh did not ecies• taking posses- frig n King, as wens , h t political cape tor Ty same thin 11, when there was red and another by Hem , fletance It swat "Ili the King was 4 ..r6, oaring to re- session of the 'l ln therefore they 41, 111 foe the King. " 4 oi It the principle ',:ht POITIM must be MI R , !I et