The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1826-04-28 00:00:00

ALLIANCE ASSURANCE COMPANY.— The DI VIDEND of EIGHT POUNDS pc Cent on theBtoek e Alliance British and Foreign Life and Fire Assurance Ostupsay. which is now in course of payment, will be payable from this date only oo Mondays and Fridays. from Eleven to Two o'Llock. A. HAMILTON. Secretary. Alliance Assurance Office, April 27, 11126. Sr. MATITLEBOXE. APRIL 22. 1829. WANTED to borrow SEVEN THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED POUNDS, on transferrable Bonds of One Hundred Pounds each. bearing 5 per cent. interest, payabie at the Court.Honse half.rcarly : the said sum to be secured on the new Painnoeßate of the paid Parish ; the Bonds to be prepared at the expense of the Parish. Farticulars, containing extracts from the Parochial ACP.I of Par. hatnent, ' , bowing the powers and regulatians of the Vestry. as to pairing uhr moneys borrowed on Bond., are Tying at the IMun-Noose for the perusal anti signature ofTerrons intending to make Tenders, which Tenders must be sealed up and endorsed. " Tenders for lending Money," and be forthwith delivered to the Vestry Clerk. A Vestry will he held at the COurt House of the said Parish, Marylebone.lane. for the purpose din fling, considering, and 'w heeling Tenders. on SATURDAY 'XT. the 29th instant ; and necessary) on the following Smut at Eleven o'Clock in the ForenThe o Money will be required frwthwith&aftee the acceptance of the Tenders. Ity order awe Vestry. J. 11. GKEENW ELL. Vestry Clerk. TILE NETT of KIN (if any) of DAVE/ MIT CHEIJ late a Seaman belonging to tlitEa.t India Mer chant Ship Kellieop.th% deceased, by applying lir Mr. J:rtin Win!. hog, 13, Coltage-strect, Poplar, may hear of something to their ad wear% Pilin 4.IIENTARY NTELUGENCE HOUSE OF LORDS, THURPDAY, Aram. 27. Mr. Brogden, Sir T. Aelsnd, and other Members of the House of Commons. brought up the Fisheries Bill, the 1i.00.00/. Ex. chequer Bills Bill. and several private Bills, which were read a tint time. The (Anwar Divorce Bill, and several other Bills, passed through a shit I reading. Mr. Johnson. from the office of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, presented the 14th Report of the Commissioners for auditing ac counts in Irekrul. Mr. Mason., from the India Home, presented an account of the exports and imports of Singapore, from 11?22 to 1824. SIAVERY. - - _ The Bishop of LICHFIELD presented petitions fmm two pa- Silas% In Staffordshire, prating fn the abolition of slavers. The Earl of DARNLEY presznted similar petitions from the following places i—timesend, the puts!' of .t. Pool's, Deptford, Chstimm, Stroud, Rocheater, and Gillingham. After a rut? ototer trattoria front the Noble Earl, the petitions were laid cm the table. RESTORATION (IF lIONOI`ES' The Earl of LIVERPI /Oh moved the second rending of the Thu to restore the Peerages of Carnerath. Ogivie, Dulias, and the Baronetcy of Fingask. The Earl of ItOsEBERRY rose to suggest the proprictv of adding the titles o: Wentres and Airlie to the number. His Lorl. ship observed, thnt such a measure would give sa•i.faction to him self, and he was sure it would be equally agreeable to all the Peers of Scotland. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said that he entirely agreed in the oainion of the Noble Earl. It would be an act of justice to restore the titles of Wemyss and Airlie, but, it should be observed, that the others were ac's of grace and bounty. His Lordship felt great satisfaction that those restorations of Scotch and Irish honours, which he had felt it his duty to recommend to the Crown, had b;en received be the individuals and by the public as acts of grace. Those restorations had taken place without any reference to party or personal considerations. After a few observations from Lord REDESDALE, the Bill W 34 read a seepnd time. KING'S TIENCII. The Earl o UDERDAI.E presented a petition from the Marshal of the .ing's Beach, praying he sta extension o:• that prison. Adjourned at t o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMON;;, TIIIIIIADAY, APRIL 27. CITY OF DUBLIN. :Ur. EI,LI presented a petition from the City of Dublin. raying that the Standing t trder of the Ilnuse respccting private Bills nate! he dispensed with. and that they might be allowed to regent a petition for a Bill to repeal the Act of ,19 George 111., Ttiative tosupplyingDohlin with wilier.— Raerred to a Committee. cATtioLic CLA Sir R. SHAW.I ; , presented a petition from the Lord Mayur, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City of Dublin, agsinst any further concession to the Roman Catholics.—Ordered to be printed. LICENSING SYSTEM. r. ESTCOURT moved the first reading of the Rill for regu lating the licensing of public.hotisca, and aimed the object of it to be. to continue the present system for one year longer. Mr. W. M. MA DER LY hoped that a clause would be intro duced. enabling the puldican, should he by illness he prevented from attending, to appoint a person in his stead to attend on the licensing day. He knew an instance in which a person, not hay. log been enabled to attend. hid lost his license ; the consequence of which was, that hie creditors came upon him, and he was thrown into prison and ruined. Unless some such clause was introduced, he should oppose the Bill. The second reading was then fixed for the 33 of 31 ay. ELECTIVE FRANCHISE. Mr. SYKES brought up the Bill, declaring that the freeholders of certain town counties were entitled to vote at the election for Knights of the Shire; which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday next. MERCHANT SEAMAN'S BILL. Lord EBRINOTON moved the first reading of the Merchant Seaman's Ball. It was read accordingly, and the second reading was fixed for Tuesday next. MR. GOURLAY'S CASE. . . . TIUME presented two petitions--one from the male, and the other from the female, inhabitants of Kennaway, in Scotland, praying the House to order an inquiryinto the case.—Ordered to be printed. CORN LAWS. „ . Mr. HUME presente4 a petition tram the inhabitants of Lough borough, praying for an alteration in the Corn Laws. SLAVERY. Mr. BAGWELL presented a petition from Roscrea, Tipperary, praying for the abolition of slavery in the Colonies. A similar petition was also presented from Fishgu3rd, by Sir J. OWEN.—Ordered to be printed. CURRENCY. ..... Mr. DALY presented a petition from the Grand Jury of Gal way, praying the House no:. to make any alteration is the currency • et Ireland. Mr. HUMS; presented a petition from the ramters' Society Of the Eastern Divison of ForGirshire, praying the (louse not to maKe any alteration in the currency of Scotland. Mr. J. P. GRANT presented a petition to the same effect from • Dung., in Scotland, and said that a petition had been presented to the House from the same pla:e, praying for the :duration. The petitioners, however, denied that they knew anything of such a pe tition having been adopted. Mr. HUSK ISSON was understood to say that he presented the petition in favour of an alteration, and if he was correctly informed, a letter had been despatched from London advising the getting up of a counter-petition. Sir J. WROTTESLEY said, that there had been but one re. tition presented in favour of an alteration, and that was from Dunce. (A laugh.) Mr. HUSK ISSON begged to disclaim all connexion with the place in question. (Great laughter.) The several petitions were then referred to the Committee as the measure. _ _ TOLLS IN IRELAND. motion as be sought for. For this reason, he hoped he should then be envied if he declined entering into the subject more particularly, as on Tuesday next he intended to make a motion. with a view to bring before the House the present state of the British Shipping and the Navigation of the Country, when he believed he could chew that thevystem of reelprotity had not rethieed tic trade to that pe rilous state described by the petitioners. 'lt was quite enough for I him to know that the shipping interests were in a s l a t e of do u bt and alarm, in order to induce him to give a fuli exposition to the House of every mutter connected with those interests ; and he tritaied that, even if he should fail in rcno.ving the alarm which existed, lie could, at 4:1 events, satisfy the House that it was without hams dation. ( Rear.) Sir ,i)t. W. RID (XV said. that as the Right Honourable Gen tletrom had expressed Id* intention er bringing the sultj, , ct betUrc the Rouse on Tuesday twit, he should merely state that he hclieved the sentiments expressed by his 'lmmutable Freud, whom the Right Honour Ode Gentleman had a'•luded to, did not convey any censure to-mil:lts him for hie absence anion that occasion: Re (Sir :R. W. Ridiey) was aware that the Right Honourable Gentleman was engaged upon a Committee on the day in qnonon, and, there. fore, could net have been present. 31r. W. 'Wlll'l'3loll E moved for a return of the number of Aliipi tuvling to and from British ports during the lastiien years. distinguishing British from Ynreign, together with the amount of tonnage. Also. an account of the quantity of Corn imported and exported during the tame perial, with its value. and distinguishing that which hail been imported or exported from Ireland. Agreed to. LAND TAX—CATHOLICS. Air. II EMT; presented a petition from Wiliam Itnnt, of the perish at Marviebone, relative to the had tax paid by the Catlin. lies. It stated that the double land tax, which had been imposed upon the Catholics prior to the year 1741. had, in that year, been done away with, and yet it hail continued to be collected, notwith. standing, up to the present day. The Earl of Shrewsbury had paid since that period upwards of all.OOO/. in double land tax. Sir Beddington had also paid largely, as had other Catholic geed-omen in the same way. Ile (Mr. Hume) believed that it re. litircd no legislative enactment to act the matter right. as the Commissioners had the power or doing it of their own accord; but as they had net done so, he bog ~ .m1 to call the attention of the Right Hon. lletol mum opposite in the question. Mr. C. W. WYNN said that any one of the gentlemen alluded to might doubtless have obtained ceders', had they appl.ed during the years intervonieg between 1791 and 1798 : but be believed that in IPA the Ima tax was made perpetual us it then existed. The subject was fali of ditlieulties. The Commissioners could not now call upon thine who hail contracted for the land tax for further contribution, and ye! the defie eecy must he made good in some wpy. lle confessed tdat at that moment he was at a loss to conceive how they could he tol.eved. . . (:,1 wa‘ 17 ell aware that the subject was not without j 44 difficulties, but II; thought it a question whiet deserved the moat serinus con•itteratinn. Mr. U. W. WYNNE said that lame portions of property so al mated had be-in to !ivlividnaln who. of course, paid propor tionally Lion for it in canacipieilee of the land tax. and it would he unfair that they •ltonld hemlit by a measure which justice might dictate the conz.i.,ion of to others. The oro;tion Wl% then ordered to he printed. 31r. 111.. ME moved for a return of the number of Prorates exe rifled by the :riterdl'l of London and litltllesex in January, Fe bruary, and March. VOL—Agreed to. POSTAGE IN IRELAND.. - - ........... Mr. S. RICE said, that year dur year hopes hail been held out that the people 01 Inland would be relieved from the enormous rates of postage which they were sithjrct to, and yet that relief had been continually postponed. Ile 'vale,' to ask the lion. G•mtle man opposite l hlr. !terries', if it was the intention of his Majesty' s Government to give the relief so anxiously prayed for ? lie then gave notice of a motion on the subj.-et for Tuesday next. Mr. lIERR IFS said, that the Treasury hail been in expecta tion of the Report of the Commissioners, which would enable them to effect the dt-tireil alterations, which Report they had not yet re ceived. They only hesitated, lest, by proceeding before they re. eeived the Report, they should create unnecessary . confusion. They had recently learned, however. that the Commissioners could not furnish their Report for some time, and had, therefore resolved to undertake that portion of the required alterations, without wait ing for the Report, andtto assimilate themes of postage in Ireland as nearly as possible o those of England, in proportion to the distance. _ . . ..... „. 3lr. S. RICE said that the answer was so satisfactory, that be would withdraw his entice of motion. SILK DUTIES BILL. . ..... . On the motion of :11r. C. (3RA NT. the Houser esolved itself into s Committee upon the Silk Duties Ilill. The ChtWe% were then agreed to; after wli:c.h the House re• sumed, the Iteput was !nought up, and ordered to be taken into further consideration on Tuesday next. It EFORNI IN PARLIAMENT. . . . lewd JOHN RUSSELL role, in pursuance of the notice which he hail given, to bring before the House the question of a Reform in Parlianteet. The motion with which it was his intention to con. dude a as precisely the note as he had twice before brought under discussion, and witheperiod of the year was tile same—as the circum. 'lances of the reontry were nine the same—pence and tranquillity reigning with all its European relations—he had almost determined to resit the rn.c neon the reasons which he had already given in its support, fully assured as he was that they were powerful enough to carry conviction to the hearts or those who were not interested in believing otherwise. Lein, however, it should be imagined that lie brought the question forward to afford matter for declamation, he felt it necessary to state such reasons as must render his object in telligible to every eye not corrupted or biassed by individual in. terent. The ground upon which he hail formerly stated, and should still state, the necessity of Parliamentary Reform, was the absolute indispensability that allGovernmente should conform themselves to the existing state of the people to be governed. Even in Turkey, where the Sultan had the power of cutting off' as many heads as he chose every day, yet if he neglected appearing at the Mosque on a Friday, most probably an insurrection would be the consequence; there rho Government was adapted to the people, and when it in. fringed upon established principles, notwithstanding its despatie power. it ran the most serious risks. This country had arrived at a pitch of wealth and knowledge. never before attained by any country in the world. There was a mass of intelligence diffused through all classes of society, to an extent which hitherto had never existed. Ile had shown upon a former occasion, by a variety of details, the extent to which that intelligencehad spread itself during the last thirty years, and therefore he would not again te. peat those details upon that occasion. lie would only state those derails which established the feet. that a people more capable of exercising the elective franchise to advantage never existed, lie should next proceed to the examination of the state of that House, and what he had to say upon that subject he believed would be found to be as little capable of contradiction as the capability of the people of this country. The majority of the Members of that House, instead of bring elected by a large number of the people, were nominated almost sulely by individuals, so that in point of fact the body of the people represented by that House was much smaller than it wasa century ago. He did not mean to say that this country wan in the state in which an Honourable Member (Me. Abercroinby) described Scotland to be Kuper) a debate some .11011 time sine. He did not mean to say that it was in so la mentable a situation as to afford no opportunity for the expression of the sentiments of the people ; but it would be found that the votes of that portion of the House which was returned by a large number of akerturs w we invariably more than overpowered by those .of the noniea of individuals, and those who obtained seats—he would give Ate job its proper name—by bribery. If this then were the case-lif there was such a discrepancy between the electors and the elect as that the usual principle was reversed—that, in la fact, the it. body it was which represented the lens, he believed that one deer or other such a vitiated state of representation must occasion der most serious calamities. Ile appealed to the House if effisere wan any thing in all this statement which could justify an imputation that it had been brought forward as matter (of declamation, anti should be thrown aside accordingly. Nothirt of all that he had stated could be contradicted in prin. ciple, or denied in fact. No man would stand up in that House for the purpose of contradicting the facts as lie had then stated them ; forked the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) who, he per ceived, was then absent from the House, had upon all occasions seemed to take them for granted; and it' such were the admitted fast, ate would then assert that the people had a right to demand a reform in the representation of the country. There was one portion of the subject which he believed had not been touched upon before, and which he would then shortly allude to. He meant the origin of the representation of the people in Parliament. The first Par !lament in this country was assembled by Edward the First, and it consisted of Knights and Burgesses. The Knights were elected by the freeholders of their respective wander. It was at one time supposed that only those who held in chief from the Crown could have a vote in the elections, hut more accurate research established the fact that the right was in the freeholders generally. 'Those elections were so popular. and the collections of people so no. merous at them, that in the reign of Henry the Eighth it was thought proper to prevent their coming together in such numbers. So much for their popularity. The practice was to issue writs to the Sheriff's to return Knights for the counties, and Burgesses for the boroughs. The Sheriffs obeyed, and every borough which could bear the expense of sending a member was made to do so ; and those who constituted the electors in those boroughs were all of the inhabitants, and not a select number, ns at Rye, from which place he had yesterday presented a petition, and where 211 persons represented thousands. He could produce authority for the fact which lie had just stated, which he believed could hardly be con tradicted—legal authority, which he believed lion. Gentlemen on the other side of the House would not be disposed to contradict. The Lord Chancellor had seid,in the Inverness csee.that he appre hended there would be but little difficulty in showing that formerly all of the inhabitants were burgesses. What then, he would ask, was the principle upon which the first House of Commons was formed in this country ? In the first place there were Knights, who represented the landed property of the kingdom, and in the next place, burgesses, to represent the bnroughs. In point of fact there were some boroughs so small as to be unable to maintain the expense, and they were relieved from the burthen; but those were not relieved who were rich enough to maintain their representation. It had been suggested that a statute might be framed in conformity with this principle, by which the small bo roughs would be exempted front the burden. It might be unde niably proper to do en ; but he leered that those small boroughs would consider it as a jest upon them, as in fact their whole chance of riches depended upon their pending Members ; the eleetlou year enabling them to support the poverty of the ensuing six years. What he had stated clearly ptoved the ancient right of the people to elect such persona as they thought most competent to speak their sentiments in that Hou Our ancestors could never have thought of such a thing as an uninhabited borough returning a Member to Mr. SPRING RICE said that he had to present • petition from the town of Galway, complaining of the conduct of the Corpora tion, and of the Court of Chancery in Ireland. The petitioners. who represented the population of Galway, which consisted of 40,000 persons, complained of the misappropriation of the tolls, b appropriating them to purposes for which they never were intended. The charge against the Court of Chancery was of so extraordinary and objectionable a nature, as at least to call for examination and inquiry. The subject had once been brought before Parliament, but had been defeated by the introduction of some words in the Bill. The subsequent year, application was made to the Court or Chancery in the matte►, and the Chancellor suspended the proceed. inp, in order to give time for a second application to Parliament. The franchise of Galway was vested In the freemen and the free. holders; and it was, of course, the interest of the Corporation to t e iZ t v e : as many as possible of the right of voting. This waa by the Magistrates connected with the Corporation, who re. fused to register the freeholder, thus preventing them from voting as effectually as if they had it in their power to deprive them of their franchise. After • few words from Mr. DALY, which were inaudible in the gallery, the petition was ordered to be printed. SHIPPING. Mr. ELLIS presented a petition from the proprietors of ships resident in North Shields, and engaged in the carrying trade, pray. in; that the House might take their case into consideration, and ratan their property by means of protecting duties. Mr. PORT MAN. made some observations which were in audible. Mr. HUSK ISSON said that a similar petition had been pre sented about a week ago. of which no previous intimation had been given to his Alajeaty's Ministers, and their absence upon the occa sion had been alluded to in rather enmeasured terms. Upon that day, however, he had been engaged up stairs upon a Committee until fire o'clock, at which hour he was obliged to attend to official duties elsewhere, but be was enabled to return again to the House at six. It was absolutely impossible for Ministers to be in their ", places upon all occasions, unless some previous intimation were given. He wished to state on that occasion, that he did not think the presentiment of a petition a proper opporginity for going into an important discussion upon the navigation o the country; and the Honourable Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring), therefore, might bars chosen a more convenient opportunity for eliciting such infer. THE BRITISH PRESS• Parliament. They would never have dreamt of such places la Old Sarum and Gatton voting away the money of such places as heeds and Manchester. Their idea wo, that Members should be re. turned who should enable the Sing to raise subsidies, to carry on his wars, and to judge of the extent to which their Constituents could lend their pecuniary aid to the Government of the country. What was the result of that species of Government? He would say it produced the greatest good—it produced those liberties which were now establialied. An Honourable Member opposite, who was in general t great opposer of Parliamentary Reform, said upon a former occasion. that he knew nothing of those ancient Parlia ments. except that they were called together for the purpose of vot ing subsidies, and were then dissolved. The Honourable Member was certainly mistaken in the view which be had taken of the con. duct and operation of those Parliaments • they not only voted subsidies, but they often refused to vote those subsidies until they had obtained from the Crown valuable privileges; they did more, they established the liberties of Englishmen. So early as the reign of Edward 111. Parliament had the right of voting the pub lic money, and the Parliaments of those times established that valuable privilege of the British Constitution, that no man should he brought to trial, no man deprived of his liberties or property, but by verdict of his peers. All those great principles of freedom which this country now enjoyed were established by those ancient Parliaments. This was clear from the facts which history unfolded, end induced a modern author of considerable eminence to say, that instead of saying the liberties of England were procured by the sword of their ancestors„ja would be more correct and consistent with the face to say those liberties were purchased by the money of our an. testers. The good effect of those principles was observable in the difference which existed between this country and France In early times. In the reign of Edward VI. theilifference was pointed out by Sir John Fortescue. Sir John Comvn, and Lord Bacon. The English were represented to be soldiers of the best description, and ready to fight with the ardour of freedom in defence of their liber ties; while those of France, who had no such inducements to stimu late them, were very Inferior in those attributes which constituted the soldier. IS was no innovation on the Constitution of the country to seek a reform or Parliament. In asking Parliamentary reform. they only demanded that which the ancient Parliaments of England had established. Having so far adverted to the origin of those principles which were involved in the consideration of the question, he would come to the objections to the measure. He would first advert to the objection which the Right Hon. Gentleman op posite (Mr. Canning) sometinsee put' forward—that the great prosperity of the country was %lemon why no change should be made in the representative tryst -^ of the country. Taking advan tage of a season of prosperity, the Right Hon. Gentleman would came down to the House with a favourable statement of the financial comfit on of the country; and after a flourishing display, ask, "Is this the House of Commons you wish to reform?" That was not a point which had much influence or weight upon his mind. lie would argue the measure upon gene-al piinciples, with. out any reference to that particidar view of the question. If he was to take that argument into consideration, it would rather in crease than diminish the strength of his cause. 16 in a season of distress he should say that the difficulties of the country were pro- duced by the defective representation of the people4such an argil merit might excite discontent, but could not fairly be said to have reference or connexion with the question of reform in Parliament. There was not at any distant perio d great distress throughout the commercial interests of the country. Parliament met, in come oueuce of that depressed state of the trading iniereste, to de. vise a remedy. A measure of relief was proposed to that 1 House and twilled. No sooner had the House adjourned In the Easter holidays, than those interests revived in confidence 1 and energy, and expressions of satisfaction were heard from those who before had begun to despond. If at that time he ( Lord John Russell) should say that the evils which prevailed, and the distresses with which the country was visited, was owing to the state of the representation of the country, he would be thought to have (a:ten an unfair advantage. He thought that all such arguments could by no inference bear upon the ques tion before the House. He thought the prosperity of the country could be traced to far more ancient enactments. In his opinion it was founded on Acts of Parliament which were passed five hundred years ago. It depended on the security of property, which was established and protected by the trial by jury. He knew certainly that many Acts had been passed by that House, which were calcu lated to impair that security, and to check the prosperity of the country. An Act was passed in the year 1822, to which Ministers themselves attributed much of the distress which prevailed. But that distress did not originate in a defective representation of the people, but in mistaken views of policy, and in the erroneous opi. nions which were entertained by Government. He could not think that die prosperity or distress of the country by any means occa sioned by the state of she representative system of the country. The second objection which was brought forward was, that this measure would infringe on the right of private property. That 1 right should be protected, but it might be interfered with for the promotion of the public good. If a case was made out of a neces sity for a change, he could not conceive why one form should not be exchanged for another more adapted to the constitution of the country, and which was completely consistent with the ancient constitittion of the Representation. If private"groperty was to be interfered with, he, for one. if compensation wastlaimed, would be quite willing to indemnify the parties who thould be exposed to loss in consequence of a change. If. however, it was insisted that the right of property should not be invaded, lie would remind the House that several Acts had been passed that Session, which in vaded that right The Liverpool and Manchester Rail-road Bill interfered with that right. An individual whose property inter. fired with the projected line of that road, petitioned that House against the violation of his property by that rail-road. His bouts was, however, under the authority of that Act of Parliament, taken down and razed to the ground, and his property destroyed. There was another Bill now passing through the Houge,for making improvements in the metropolis, which would encroach on the property of many private individuals. Compensation would be offered those persons, which if they refused, they might go to a compensation pry, and if they were not satisfied with the award of that jury, their houses might be knocked down and razed to the ground. He was quite at a loss to discover why the right of pro perty could ,be invaded in there instances, and why they should treat with greater kindness the question of Reform. What motive could they have for treating the boroughs with greater tenderness than any other interest. He was anxious to afford compensation in every possible way, and to afford as much as would be security to private property. Another objection of the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite was, that if a change was made, it would tend to disorganise the system, and subvert the principle of mutual con. trot, which was so salutary in its effects. In support of this view of the case, they brought before us the terrors of democracy and the violence and horrors of the French Revolution. If he wished to establish the principles of republicanism, such reason.' ing might apply to the case; but as he only asked for a reform as established by the ancient Parliaments of the country, he con sidved them niece declamation. Irony attack was made on the privi leges of the House of Lords, and he, in furtherance of that attack, were to instancethehorrorswhich were perpetrated by the aristocracy") of Venice, such a lineof observation would not be considered appli. I I cable to the subject. If an attack was made on the prerogative of the Crown, and he was to refer to the crimes and atrocities practised by the Emperors of Rome, it would with great justice be said, that 1 thole observations had nothing to do with the subject. When, there. fore, he only asked for a reform, those who brought forward the dangers of democracy as a reason for withholding that, argued in vain. The Right Hen. Gentleman, anti those who opposed this measure, say that the system works well. If lie could agree to that, it would be, in his opinion, a poor inducement to oppose the melt sure ; but he did not think that di system worked well, and he li r was convinced that sooner or cat they would feel its bad effects. He would repeat what he had id on the debate on the Catholic question, and on the Bullion bp-estion, that the House acted on those questions as the repr4entations cr the people. Hon. Members voted on those queriontfrom their private convictions. The same thing might be said of Atte Privy Council, but in those cases there was no question at Joke between the people and the Crown ; but when the question wife of an opposite description, he was disposed to think the conduct of the House would be different; and when such a question was befelfb the House, he found a great majority of the representatives of the people were on the popular side of the question. lie made that observation from votes of that House, within his own experience. It was not an individual solitary observation of his own, but be gave it as stated by 31r. Fox, who, when defeated towards tile end of the American war by Lord North, said that five.sixths of the representatives of the country were erith him: The House did not act towards the con clusion of the American war as the representatives of the country should have done ; that was the real discrepancy between the votes ' of that House and the wishes of the people. We know that dis. content did exist at that period, and that laws of coercion were en. acted to restrain that discontent. It was well known that efforts were then made to evince by force and violence the sentiments of the people. A new course had been adopted by the present Mioi. sters. They to a great degree cot:nuked the wishes and opinions of the people. A great change in the conduct of Govermenthad been effected, of which lie could not give any greater proof than by recalling to the recollection of the House the line of conduct adopted by On. vernment in March 1819, when his Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member for ‘Vinchelsea, proposed three resolutions for the adop tion of the House, which stated, that the distress of the country was increased by the policy which was adopted in our foreign Ms thine, and from the excessive taxation with which the country was burthened. H s complained, that by the foreign policy of the 31i. nistry such commercial advantages were not procured for this coon. try at front her influence the people were led to expect. When those resolutions were proposed, the orders of the day were moved. and the propositions negatived ; but since those resolutions were proposed a great change Inel taken place in the policy of the coun try ; yet hall of what had been since effected was contained in those resolutions. (Hear, hear.) But because they were then proposed by a Member of the Opposition, they were not attended to. The Government only adopted half measures, which reminded him of an observation of Fontenelle, who said that, if both his hands were full, he would only open one. If the measures adopted by the re presentatives of the people were different front their wishes, they would protest against those measures. Ministers had done some good ; would they now stop short, or by proceeding in the steps of improvement, give a virtual representation to the country ? If in ., consequence they found themselves in any difficulty. he would assure them they would Bud no solution of that difficulty so good for them, as that they should have next session a Perlis- intent which ready represented the people of the country. From such a Parliament they might expect an overpowerlng sup.. port ; but if they did not pursue such a cause, he was not sure that they would receive it from a Parliament differently consti tuted. 'They could reei.4epend on the support of those who had gone with them in That hill - already been done. It was well known that many were hostile to what had been done, and to what was to follow. Before he sat down• he would state the nature of the mo tion he bad to propose to the House. lie would take one hundred of the smaller boroughs, which should send one Member to Parlia ment instead of two, and he would fill up the places of those Mem bers by dividing them among the counties and larger towns. He would not say whether that was the best plan which could be de vised. All he would insist on was, that there was a necessity for a reform in the representation. There were two methods of effecting that reform. One entire, by reconstructing the House of Commons; end the other of a more limited nature, that of accomplishing a partial reform in the representative system as it et present existed. The principle of partial reform had been frequentlY advocated, and had great authorities in favour of it. is Chatham approved of the principle; and in the system of reform which had been intro. duced at a former period, it had been adopted and aced on by hie Pitt, and strenuously supported by Mr. Fox in all his speeches on the question of reform. In a speech which he delivered in that House in the year 17113, he used that illustration which was so often quoted, that a house built by degrees, and had parts added to ft at different periods, would be a more convenient dwelling than one which was constructed at once. It was not his intention to pull down the house, but to amend what was defective; to repair those parts which hod suffered decay, and to adapt the whole to the pre sent time. lie would conclude by moving, " That a reform in i'arliament was deserving the serious consideration of the House." Lord ALTHORP said, that in rising to second the motion of , his Noble Friend, it was unnecessary for him to waste the time of the House with any arguments which could be only calculated to weaken the force of those which had been brought forward by the Noble Lord who had originated the question. He did not think " Utinam noster esset." the representation was such as it ought to be. He would not say T broi h rmt a h t ,w alini Hon. eid 1 toit Member should transplanth n had t b praised tim teeg n that rosrelovitaht forgotten tl e ly r were notions institutions tiiei origofiale America, n lr y er b!t le o u ni. t that the Government did not work well. in the most despotic wh a tever me r it the y p ossessed was to be ascribed to England, countries the machinery of Government worked well; but his object f was by a fair and salutary representation to secure the privileges of r iv e d, when their ancestors were induced to leave the lend of t h e i r the Constitution. He would second the motion. Mr. J. DENISON then rose, but he spoke in so low a tone of to a more genial soil. He, therefore, was disposed to quern I with voice, that we found great difficulty to collect what he said. As the Hon. Member for Newcaltleeunder-Lyme, for adverting to the well as we understood the lion. Member, he said he felt consider. democratic spirit of the American institutions as something new, stile diffidence in addressing the House for the fine time on a sub. whereas, in fact, there was no nervily in its He introducti on , reaf f l or th ilt e e i t i l i e s .. jest of such great importance. e could not promise to put the mocratic p rinci p le had been carried across the Atlantic by th ose subject in a new light, when it had been before placed in 'mode men who left the land of their nativity. but totak wi t h them the f ree . more nruch skilful than his own. The Noble bud had argued the dom of their birth-right. Such was the opinion of our ancestors, on general principles. He, too, would look at the mu- and t h us had it been transfused. into the American insionto, ns . sure in that point of view, and on those general principles he would That was the opinion in this country at the title of the Revel u i on , dissent front the motion which the Noble Lord had proposed fur the and before that p eriod ; and it was onl y necessar y adoption of the House. The Noble Lord had adverted to the con. for of Ergland to be convinced of the fact. i The Americans had in o h ri e le i r a t , o pu le te a , rn i tothtahtetchieemlanztte;tatopitiii: haastlpac:v7tisn4betehne duct of the Right Honourable the Secretary f r Foreign Affairs, only to take :. leaf out of that History, to lerik into the s t orks of and that of the Government, on the question of Reform, and Selden, and to read of the heroism of Hampden, of Sideity, and argued that Government were bound to proceed so, far as to support his motion. Was it, he world ask, because Govern. directing the affairs of this nation. He did nue therefore expect that runt Wee sensitive to the existence of abuses, that therefore novelty o f Russel, would they were to furthet and adopt the principles of the Noble Lord e English Coned union. When the question o lit form come under They had corrected what they considered necessary to correct, but con s i d era ti o n, it was usual to France and to mer ica' and he w i t the resisted they were in his opinion entitled to the confidence Of resisted the present motion on Principle; sod fi r what they more immediately conversant with France tit it with America, he had should advert to that division in preerence te America . No w , i n the country. Ile would ask was there anything in the state of that France the mode is not exactly similar to the system of repre. House to warrant a change ? Was that House more corrupt than notation in England, for there the officers annee:ed with the te eny of its predecessors? He was in the !louse when the Hun. tur n s of the representatives were completety t uncler the control of Member for Westminster (Sir F. Burdett we believe) said he never Government, and recourse was bad to inethoift of pet-veiling el( ce eat in a poor' House Of Commons than that he then addressed. tors from exercising those privilegee, sled' would not erly I e into. !fad, lie would inquire, the influence of the Crown lately increased ? lerable, but ridiculous, in this country. He could quote tint o r three He did hot think it had. The Member fur Staffordshire (Mr. Lit. instances of that kind, but it was notorious to all who visited that tleton) had introduced a Bill to correct what was defective in the cOrntfY, that the Government interfered in the leetions t o ee eater , Constitution of Private Committees. and that Bill met with 'support that would not be borne in England. Tit French Goeerentern from his side of the House, and with the foil consideration seemed ( to use a p hrase he had already meittio eil) to have taken a of the Home. Every thing had been done to satisfy the wishes of leaf out of the History of England. and were ntinuing by comae. the people. Ile was willing to give credit to the Noble Lord for eon what they had established by force. Th f had succeeded, not i the sincerity of hie views for improvement ; but he could not he b ecaus e the aristocracy was or them, but cause t he re was no convinced that the practical Parliamentary Reform which he had pro. aristocracy against them. They have cut it into shred, and patches. posed would give satisfaction. Reform in the representation should The most in'amous bribery prevailed in the Fretirti elections. go on the principle of producing greater uniformity. One mode England had her l'elhams and Walpole'', but Frahm had eeceecle. of Reform would be, to give greater extension to the popular re. their we:Attest stretches, and resorted to expedients of most elm edit( presentation, and the other would he to the representation of pm- character. They did not scruple to destroy bridges and to stop perry. Tit France the elective franchise was founded on the princi- ferry boats, in order to prevent electors from voiiregettsch anti ple of property. A high average rate was necessary for the exer- similar metes were resorted to, which in this country coals never cise of that privilege; the expression of the sentiments of the lower be countenanced. Bit an allusion had been made to an ;I/serva orders,. which was necessary in a free Government, found no en. tion of his Noble Friend (Lord John Russell). What Kie,Noble trance. (Cheers.) To proceed on that principle, they should dia. Friend hid said did not affect the purity of election, but ref err franchise a large proportion of the present electors of this country; to the good character of the Opposition. Ile (Mr. Hobhous but lion. Gentlemen knew how dangerous it would be to change could not conceive how the House of Commons cool* be re that system. The other would be to effect reform on popular prin. dered more corrupt than it was. In fact, it was Ilalli MSS? ciples. Ile would draw an example for that from a country for all that his Majesty's Minister wanted lie possesve, ~ which,, in many respects, bore an affinity to our own. only wished for a majority, and that lie was sure to ffimnia He meant the United States of America. There was in while the House was constituted as at present. (Hear, h r. h the constitution of that country much of what was to be admired, in contradiction to that oeininn, the conduct of the Hous eil hut : he contended that too great an extension of the popular prin. triumphantly referred to, in the instance of the propositi le elide would demise property of a beneficial influence. In times of ing the salary of the President of the Board of Trade. But wh excitement it would render such a 'latent a contest between one set that cure Wa+ adduced, it was forgotten hose.the persons of principles against another ; but the popular party would over. in favour of that motion were compromised ; for it was. tool wielm and annihilate the other; no expression of sentiment that the House would not concur in so corrupt a mease as wait would be allowed, end violence would decide the question at issue. then proposed. But , if the votes were to be analysed , what a cu. The Members at Washington assembled rather as individuals who rtous result would he found on that occasion. Out of 87 Members wereahe repreeenfativia of so many local situations and interests, who then vetted, 37 were actual placemen and pensioners. 10 were than les the counsellors of a country whose object was a promotion connexions of the placemen, and there was only one County Mem of the general good. There were, however, no such distinctions her in the list. He thought that instance, of die single Coienty here; we Were obliged to legislate in reference to the whole system. Member having been in favour of the motion, deserved great wen- He feared he might be fatiguing the House. (Cries of "Go on.") tinn. It should be considered that this was the last session of the It appeared to him that no reform was calculated to satisfy the party present Parliament, and that can furnished a strong argument in nomeopoing forward desirous of change, unless it were grounded favour of short Parliaments. He did not mean to offend, but when on MS principles to which lie had adverted. It was on those thinking on the objections evinces by elembers to rove for the sae greased+ he would oppouany alteration of this, if they pleased ins- lacy. he could not avoid the recollectien of the saying of Bea* pure; but still most efficient assembly. We could boast here the Swift, that " they were willing to give to God the devil's leavirgs." IFrencylorineiple of property, controlled by the American principle They showed some signs of grace at the eve or the eepiring Podia or democracy, and the latter was checked wholesomely by the aria- ment, and repented of the transgressions committed in the preced toasty of the country. This House was constituted, as it appear. ing periods of its life. They had exhibited at last some indication , eed to him, of all those elements which were calculated to render it of acting in support of the purposes for which they lead been not ' efficient. It was open to the introduction of all parties, all princi. into the House. lie would not further analyse that which had been plea were discussed in it, and it allowed of the expression of every justly designated by the Hon. 'Member for Taunton (Mr. Benno . opinion that could be expressed usefully. It 'hots. by referring to as the black job. But the Hon. Gentleman opposite ( Mr. De. e , the prevalence of this freedom, that he accounted for no one par. ninon) seemed to think if the Reformers did not take precedent h(I , 1 liament ever greatly differing from that which might have pre. France or America, that they were left destitute and could net ceded it; they pursued their even tenour ; they hod long sustained apply to any other places. But that was rot the case, for there themselves in the manner which was now compUined of'; and he was a variety of plans. The Worthy Alderman (Wood) had net; would say— he ('lr. llobbouse) had another; and :tie Hon. heather Mr Bur " Hic jam tercentum totos regnabitur annoy." ham (Mr. M. A. Taylor), whom he refire it il not to observe in his He would have them still firm in principle and moderate in place, could furnish a third. What he wished was to apply the ' counsel ; in fact, lie would have the House preserve its present fine edge of the wedge, and he would expect in time to eet in the characteristics. lie was not blind to the inconsistency, nor was he remainder. (Loud cries of hear, hear.) lie would candidly admit insensible of the incongruities, with which the system had been that such was his wish, and if they got in part they would un charged ; but he should fear disturbing this complicated machinery doubtedly persevere. But it should not be insinuated that Reformers 'by endeavouring to remove them, lest in doing so he destroyed had a covert meaning, which they were afraid or ashamed to avow. that part which was most important. . GurConstitution was not They did not entertain those designs of spoliation and plunder constructed in the simple Grecian style of uniformity; it was to be which were attributed to them. The Reformers had too greet admired rather for its:venerable Gothic principles. stakes in the country to possess such sentiments. They had more Mr. ROSS made a few observations in opposition to the motion, property to be lost in such a case than the preens who insinuated but sou t) sec low a tone of voice as not to be audible in the gal. the objections, and they possessed at least as much character which lery. 4,4 understood the Lion. Gentleman to compare the present they were reluctant to sacrifice. (Hear, hear, hear.) It wan constitutilto of the House with what it was in the first session of therefore unfair to impute such motives as influencing the George the First, when two hundred Members held four hun- reformers. With the Hon. Member for Orford (Mr. Ross) he had dyed offices tinder the Crown, from which they derived emo- ro sentiments in common ; but he nave credit to the Hon. Member elensefit and the Crown influence. He thought it worthy of for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Denison) for the liberalite of his glaservation that several Gentlemen, on the side of the House sentiments. The Hon. Member for Orford had referred to the tVoire which the motion of Reform came, had themselves held Avi Arorern. On that point he would only say, that if the pre various offices under the Crown. Much had been said, both on the sent system was approved of, it would be unnecessary to refer to present and other occasions, on the influence of the Aristocracy ; our ancestors, but to abide by what they considered so vied. but it should be recollected that this had been Considerably de- Th-y need not recur to History for what all knew. But the Ron. t creased by the increase which it was known had taken place in the Member for Ortbrd had given an °pillion aboqt electors and had population. This had had the effect of dividing influential families. denied that bribery prevailed to spy extent. and was undiervieg Ile rejoiced, however, when he saw wealth represented in that o f consideration. When the Hon. Member wits making such sec House; and talent—that talent which by its honest industry had a ssertion, be did not observe the countenances of the Right Rem accumulated capital—he rejoiced to observe that also make its way. Gentlemen on the Treasury Bench, who could not forbear trots Lord GLENORCH V spoke from under the gallery, and was smiling. Ile (Mr. Hobhouse) would not go to Leeds or to Man. also heard with difficulty. lie did not mean to have taken part in cheater in proof of the danger of bribery affecting the el l :beef the present question, but he was now induced to do so in conse. electors, but he would proceed to the borough of Orforti, the quence of the manner in which the Edinburgh petition had beenf electors of which had the kindness to return the lion. Member who answered by the other (the Ministerial) side of the House. He had had that night favoured the House with the expression of his SO. thought that mischief in practice would have been mnsidered on its timents. The Hon. Member was of opinion that the persons far own merits. Ministers had certainly given them gro*nd to hope that whom the right of voting was requested were of %nth a ragged and they would attttid to any specific grievances ; but what did they do in despicable character that they were undeservitig 'of the tens'. The the case of Edinburgh ? They got rid of the question on this very contrary, however, was the fact, for those who were now entitled principle. That, therefore, which it was thought gave the petition to vote for boroughs went to the 'awnings without any other care the greatest chance•mf success proved its greatest obstacle. This than to vote as they were desired, • The grievance was, that pent, showed beyond doubt that there was no ground Ibr hoping they of proptity and consideration in the county did not possess those Mir could effect any real gond, unless they could first adry the general vileges which were ribum4 by those whom he had just described. He principle. The course Ministers pursued seemed v/y like that of wished that there either Momild be a reform of Parliament, or that the an individual who had no objection to keeping tile company of mockery of the present' *Om should be admitted. He did not thieves, because they did not find their hands in the* owu pockets. like that the formality if the thing should be retained, while the (A laugh.) Those who advocated the principles of the present practice was at variance with a fair representation. With respect motion were ehaeged with having a desire to overthrolr the valuable to what had been observed in regard to placemen on accepting a hhitittlekles of wo linnem".- Thos-ehate wnemeselitnelless . . place • going beck to_ their ronsti: items t here waiosome mistake. flee All they asked was, that the House should be metered • Cron- When the Right 110 n..., opposite (gel Canning)had vested his stitution our ancestors intended it to pesos. They sou to ten- seat for Liverpool by the acceptance of der it more suitable than at present to the times in whi we live. to his former constituents', but he preferred going to one of o ' 4 Was It necessary to remind the Home a the imperfect state of the convenient places, which would as soon send to that House King, representation by referting to Leeds. to Birmingham, to Mulches- . Log as anybody else. the reason assigned in the advertisement of ter, and the numerous other large towns, which did not enjoy the the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) for refusing to return . to privilege of returning a single larg e ? If they were to direct Liverpool was, that he could not consistently discharge his dote their attention to the condition of Scotland, it would be discovered as a Minister and u a representailve vf that phee. (Ii ear, hear.) that the principle of representation in that country did not, as in . He understood the meaning of tin' •s ji.us," of the Right England, depend on the possession of property, but on the feudal Honourable Home Secretary (Mr. Peel)llt bet it did node a place, he did not return nature of the tenure, by the operation ofArhieh, the-power of re. the fact.' As to the Statutes of Bribery, they were r turning all the Representatives of Scotland wass fi ned to a existing corruption ; ' and Sir John Barnnr?l, in excelle nt mal e number of electors not exceeding three' thousand e believed when representative of London, in Mt, whiled Sir their rep e e‘ that the authority of Mr. Pitt would be regarded sis very high on They led to forgery and all kind of mlichiff: Mr. Burke, who ed the opposite side of' the House. Mr. Pitt had stated, that the was frequently quoted on both sides of. he House. hid ''bse7,„, change in the ',ltem of representation shoule correspond with the teat the House of Commons WWI not fit fbr popular puree' es • .'" circumstances of the times ; and if Right Hon. Gentlemen op. it then be called a Parliament for the purposes of w'orki'ng att'ic' s posite felt the veneration for Mr. Pitt's ehttraeur and talents which wanted ; hut not be styled, in mockery, a representation of the they professed, he hoped his assertion on the Subject of Reform people. The Right Hon. Member for Montrose (.Mr. Hume) sledwould not be unheeded by them. A learned foreigner (Mentes- by some strange fatality was absent from his place, (a It'llell o b "') quieu) had observed with his usual sagacity , that the Constitution said that if the Members did their duty reform would be allot and liberties of England would perish when the legislative depart. That Hon. Member ought to have known the proceedings of t' trent should become more corrupt than the executive. The feeling House better. and to be aware that the Al in istry could alwor 8e re. of the people of this country eras decidedly in favour of Reform, cure a majority equivalent to any increase of independent item-. and he would therefore ask the House to comply in time with the hers; while the House was constituted as at present. In tile 12 4 ,, wishes of the nation, and pay amnion to the national wishes, be. of Fox and Pitt that was the case, and m it continued, far if 7 fore the period of danger prWleted by the learned foreigner (Mon. were added to the Opposition side, the Ministry were sure p o i increase tesquieu). in his Spirit of Lams, 'Would arrive, and preclude the their ambits by ten. In the debar( s of 1821.22 ahch were possibility of adopting any ralutair or restorative measures. He caused by the Honourable Member for Alontrose, should conclude by stating tftt - the motion of the Noble Lord the constant attendance nearly killed many of the Members, a n d should receive his mostdllll support. he (Mr. Hobhouse) was almost Is martyr in the attemrt. t- Mr. HOB,HOUSE said, as it seemed to be the understanding laugh.) It was all l down and to sat nee era, is to come ,„__..l that two Members should speak successively from each side of the " aye" in echo to their friends. TM' Beam should come "7 House. he hoped to be excused for rising Immediately a ft er his the Crown. The best way, he thounte, was to admit that 31!n n l o s' t Noble Friend. He also wished to thank that Noble lewd for the tens possessed the power, and he,felt grateful that they 1 , 1 ." , to moderation of hie speech ; bat he could not exactly second with more frequently abused it. (A laegr.) If they were inctineat e him in the allusion which he had made to the case of the honest do more wrong, they would be • sore of support. Whet, 11 , man who unluckily found himself in the company of thieves. The Ministers opposed the Act fortrendering Horne Tooke rheihle t ? Noble Lewd seemed to think that there was no cause of cemplaiet seat in the Home, he expiated his obligation and thanks that the _ until the man found their hands In his pockets . The case however Minister did not order him to be hanged up in the lobby, as see 'Gil r. Hume) was not illustrative, for the people had found hands in their might have done if he pleated. The Mipistere did sorfictunt"' to pockets. (Hear, and a laugh.)_ However harsh the expensive a bait, allow themselves to be baffled, as in the cote of the me ir might appear, the fact wits us; Tbe Honourable Member opposite for the Presideot of the Board of Trade. They someti (Mr. Denison) had apologised fee addressing the House In muse. a little oil to the wheels, in order that the sense ef Pt e (pence of the infregneney_of his claimini their attenti on . N ow, the ceases , why-he (Mr. Hobliousekrecrialted to be excused on the present occasion for occupying the time of the House, was of a con. teary nature, as he had so often voices on the subject that he was apprehensive of wearing out their patienile. (Hear.) The Hon. Member hoped to he excused for speaking so seldom and he (M r . Hobhouse) apologised for having so often tresibissed on the at:en. don of the House.' But to adopt a phrase in use among the :scotch Reformers, he wished to " iestify."- From what had been said by a Gentleman at the opposite aide, he knew dot how to come into con. tact with his positions, except by reduaing the question to th e simple point of its necessity or non-necessity : pput that Gentlem an did not pay any regard to the phenomena which were apparent to others. He (Mr. flobhouse) thought that .a e Hon. Gentleman ought to pay some respect, and deriVe instruation from, the Inge. nious mode adopted by the lion. Member (fir Newcastle -under. Lyme (Mr. Denison), who seemed' (miute adppteil the advice in the heathen mythology, when (hid puts the following words into the mouth of Apollo, in reply to Phaeton's request to guide the chariot of the sun= . . " Nitor in adversum : necline, qui cetera, vincit Impetus : et rapitio contrarian' evehor orbi." He seemed to struggle against the etre* 11, until the violen ce o f the current bore him along with the maai. The lion. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme had shown so much liberality, and evinced so much desert, that he 01r. ilobhouse) could not avoid say it.g of that lion. Mennbcr— _