The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-04-02 00:00:00

*ere he capable of such conditet. he must be aware thaz in the particular caw it c0.,1d answer no end. The LORD CHANCELLOR followed em the same side. The order in question having been men tioned as • was, became tit matter for future grave and,ipe(s consideration. He agreed with his Noble d as to the wording of the order, which chewed it was not one of those absolute standing orders, such as the exclusion of strangers, upon which the House could have no option. The terms in which the order was couched indicated it was not that species of order which could not be dis pensed with, unless tiv.) days previous notice for its consideration were given. It was his intention to call that part of the Oriler-bnok to their Lordships special consideration in the course of a very few days. With respect to the proposed Committee, he had no particular objenion, except as proceeding from the regulation in questitai .is a standing order : what he would now propose w.is, that the going into the Committee should in no wise decide as to the order in question, srli;ch h • intended to propose for special consideration t.:l Thursday next. Lord GRENVILLE spoke in farther explana tion, and adverted to a precedent which took place early in 1801, when a Committee of that kind WAS • gone into; however, under the circumstances of the particular case, the Noble Baron seemed eo offer no objection to the understood arrangement, as sug gested by the N 'hie and Learned Lord. Ilia Royal Highness the Prince of WALES, ap parently in reference to some allosions made by one or two of their Lordships, to what had taken place in the course of the former discussion of the subjet, and, at which, His Royal Highness was present, begged leave to offer a few words to their Lordships. From observations, made more than once in the course of the evening, he was induced to suppose, that what had dropped from a Noble Relational his [we believe the Duke of Clarence] had been ad verted to. He was present on that occasion, and what he now alluded to, he conceived to have pro ceeded from the circumstance of a Noble Friend opposite [Lord Aidgrave bowed low] having called another Noble Friend of his to order) the observa tion•which he understood his Noble Relation to have made on that occasion, vas, that his Nob? (Friend neat him (Lord Grenville) was not more out of order than the tZ•slale and Learned Lord had been. This was the effed of what he understood his Noble Relation to have said; who was anxious to conduit himself agreeably to the Orders of the House, and with that degree of respell which every Peer was entitled tn. Alter what was thrown out, he thought it proper to explain what he conceived hail passed on the part of his Nohle. Relation ; he shoold regret to see the freedom of the House restrained in any point of view, and was sorry that any Peer should frel it necessary to make any observations on that bead. After a few words from Lord ELLematienvost. the House resolved itself into a Committee ; and Lord WA itiltiGH s st having taken the Chair— The propositions were read, which were generally to the etres'i ; that a copy of the charges he referred to the Judge:, for the purpose of receiving their opinions, whether the salve were regularly and le gally brought forward ; whether the matters al leged were high crimes and misdemeanors, and pit nishable Ai such by law ; and whether the case could be legaily and regularly proceeded upon in that House? &c. On the tin-...i0n being put ; Lord GI:ENVItt.L. ruse, and in a speech of some length, argued kr the affirmative. A case which he ie..:trred to, that of Ridgway and Holt, went, he observed, nearly the whole length of that under conside: an A lor,g eotiveisation here ensued between the Lost, CllA\cr6tne. Lord Gneevt‘tr, Lord II AMKessusv, Lot .1 ACCICL AND, Earl of CA RYSe• Toss Lail of ,Surrili IC, Lord EL LENIOROUGH, and the Part of 1) seat iv—which lasted until half past one when the House divided upon Lot.' At- c;:raan's motion, and there appeared, Contents, IF; 31—Majority against the motion, IC—Adjourned at Two o'clock. HOUSL (IF coM %lONS. M' Wv.""* *4 1 ." 4 '"! paniM. Trade Lizmucte the N •areal Sat; s WU, and the Ant-neap Intercourse Rid, were f.•vcr.rir• Masi a tl.ud time and pemd Mr. Smith brought lip the Report 01 the American Treaty which was mai and agreed at, and the Rill ordered to be read a third tints to iisnrrOW. Mr Parnell, from the U. of the Chancellor of the Ex• chenner in Ireland, ;.resented at the bir, an Account Of the par 4cular+ of the unfunded d.ht of Irelaiid. Ordered to lie on the 'fable and to be printed. Mr Hayes, from the Rank of England, presented at the Bar sit Account of all lhdLas issued by the Bank of England, to the latest period. OrderLd to lic ,in the T.hle, and to be printed. The Innkeeper. Bill went through a Committee, and the Report was ordered to be received to morruw. Ti'NTII REPORT The CHANCELLOR ofthe EXCHEQUER rose, and begged to call the attention of the House to the business which was fixed for Thursday next. It was, he said, A Motion on the 10th Report of the Commissioners of Naval Iniuiry. He had received a letter, which had been sent b) Lord Viscount Melville, to the Commissioners, in explanation of his conduti in this business, which it was necesary should he laid before the House, and he would make a Motion to that drat, if there should be no objec tion to his doing so. If there was any lion. Mem ber objeCted, he wvuld give notice that he would move it to-morrow. Being desired to proceed, the Right Hon. Gentleman moved, That there be Laid betore the Hoote • Copy of a Letter from Load Viscount Melville to the C01111111.1100119N of looms?, Appointed under the Mt of the 43i1 of the King, datrd te ROI March, 1.110.5, and Ai.. Of any proceeding had thereon, or soy sumer thereto by the said Conimosioners. Mr. PITT then said, that he was apprehensive these P. 4 pert could not be ready time enough for the Members of the House to receive them, so as to be able to give them that full and deliberate considera tion which a subjet% of such importance required, be fore Thursdry ; and if any proceedings should take place, or any answer he returned in the mean time, it would be still more difficult to get th.•m presented. Ile therefore thought the best mode would be to fix the Motion for the earliest day in the beginning of the next week. He assured the House that he was extremely desirous this important discussion should take place as early as possible ; but he was confi dent the House would be glad to have in their pos session every degree of information which could he obtained respeag it. He would have mentioned Monday, but that was already taken up by a Mo tion of an Honourable Gentleman opposite to him He would, therefore, name the next open day, un less the Honourable Gentleman would take Friday for his Motion, and let this stand for Monday. Mr. FRANCIS acquiesced in this, and the Order of his (relative to India), which stood for Monday, was accordingly discharged, aad a new one made fur Friday next. Mr. GREY said, that as it must be the wish of every Member to receive all the information that could he obtained, though he wishe I the business to he brought forward with as much speed as poi ; sible; yet, if it was understood that the Order should peremptorily stand hd Monday, he would, on the part of his Honourable Friend (Mr. Whit bread), in his absence, consent to postpone the Mo tion till Mo ntay. Mr. pm . s.tid it should stand peremptory for Monday, unless some very material event should happen that could not be foreseen. The question on Mr. r. TT'S Motion was then put and agreed to; the Order for Thursday discharged, and a new one made for Monday. Lord A. HAMILTON said that he had given notice on a former day, that he would, in the course of the present week, move a day for taking into consideration the several Petitions against the Corn Bill. He had, however, on further c:Aisideration, determined not to bring forward his Motion on that subjell still atter the Easter recess. Mr GROGAN'S ATTAINDER. Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) rose to make the Motion, of which be had given notice on a former day, which he did to the following purport : That there be laid before the Home a Copy of the Evidence Procaediugs taken Wore the linos* of Commons of I re under an Act pautd in the Ads of Ilk Majesty, for the an:tinder of Cornelius Grogan, Ksq. of Johnstown, in the county of Wexford, for High Treason, as far as concerns the said Cornelius Grogan. I laving read his Motion, he said he thought it ne ce. ary to apprise the House of the reason which had induced him to make it. Mr. Cornelius Geo• gau, a Gentleman of considerable fortune and re spedability, had had his life taken away without a trial by Jury. He had been condemned and exe cuted by the sentence of a Military council, without the stria forms even of ageneralCourt Mat tial, and the officer who pronounced the sentence had declared, at the Bar of the Irish House of Commons, that he was not presept when the evidence was given, nor had he read the evidence, but -he approved the sentence, which shen•ed he must have relied on the word of honour of the officers who were present. He con sidered, therefore, that this was not a fair trial, and he trusted the House would comply with his Mo tion, and convince themselves, from the evidence, upon what grounds a Bill of Attainder had been passed (alter this unfortunate Gentleman had lost his life), to deprive his wretched tinnily of the pro perty which belonged to him. Sir J. NEWPORT accorded the Motion, which haring been read from the Chair ; Lord CASTLERE AG I 1 sad that he should beg the patience of the House till he shortly stated the circumstances under which Mr. Gtogan had been tried. As far as he could now recoiled, he was tried by a Court Martial, consisting of I 3 or 14 of the principal officers of the army, and had, in every re spea, as fair a trial as the circumstances or the country would at that time admit. After the exit. initiation made by the Parliament of Ireland, on the fullest evidence that could be produced, he could not suppose that House would so far interfuse as to make an order for the produdion of evidence, on which they had come to their determination on the Bill of Attainder lie did not kn ow what reason the Hon. Gentleman had for bringing for ward this Motion. nor was he certain that any such record as the minutes on which the Irish Parliament formed their judgments, was in existence. As he could not, therefore, see any good ground for a Motion of this nature, he should oppose it, by moving that the other Orders of the Day be then read. On the question being put; Mr. MARTIN (Galway) said, that considering what he knew of the circumstances of the execution of Mr. Grogan, he was by no means surprised his motion should not meet the approbation of the Noble Lord. lie took on himself; however, to say, positively, that the evidence did exist of which the Noble Lord had so much doubt. He knew persons who have taken exa& copies of the evidence, and who might be ordered to at:end and verify the same on oath, before the House. lite Noble Lord had said, every formality had been complied with on the trial. This he denied to be the case : he had neither Counsel, A7,ent. or friend, admitted to assist him ; and he would ask the Arroa ev-Gso R 1., and was sure he should have him on his side, whether a man incarcerated in a gaol, taken imme. diately (torn thence, and executed under the sen tence of a Military Council, without any assistance whatever, was a fair trial? lie insisted it was a murder, on which immediately followed confisca tion of his property. Tile Noble Lord wished there. fore to shelter himself tinder the forms of the House. lie pledged himself, however, that it the evidence WAS produced, it would prove such flagrant pro ceedings, as would astonish every one. The Noble Lord seemed very anxious to know what use he meant to make of the present motion. He would candidly tell him, if the House, on perusal of the evidence, should be of opinion, .there was not a scin tilla of proof to warrant the execution of Mr. Gro. gan, and the consequent confiscation of his pro perty, under the Bill of Attainder, he had no doubt but they would do justice to his unfortunate family, by reversing the attainder, and restoring the pro perty so cruelly taken from them. Mr. FOX said, if you cannot judge from the evidence given before the Parliament, in a case of attainder, as the. Noble Lord seemed to intimate an attainder would be irreversable, which was contrary to the whole of the practice of this country, as the Noble Lord would find. on a reference to its his tory, in matters of this nature. He thought the motion ought to be agreed to; because, if the evi dence were before the House. there could be no doubt, but that in consequence of the change of circumstances which had taken place in the situation of Ireland, and the conciliatory measures which had since been resorted to, there could be no doubt the House, if it saw just ground for so doing, would be inclined to reverse the attainder, and restore the property confiscated under it, to the unfortunat owners. f.oidCASTLEREAGH b'gged the House would • • not misapprehend him. He wished the House to be in possession of all die evidence that could be ob tained, and if there was any information ex isting in such a shape as Parliament can take notice of it, he should have no objelion to its being produced. The Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Fox) had adverted to cases of reversals of Bills of Attainder ; it was true there had been several, but he believed none in which the question had been retired at any future period of a considerable distance. Sir JOHN NEWPORT contradiaed the last po sition of the Noble Lord, and referred to the cases of Lnrd Russell, Sir Samuel Cornish, and others, who had suffered in the bad times of Charles I. and 11. and whose attainders were reversed :It the period of the Revolution, which was very distant. He thought the evidence ought to be produced, because it would bring the matter fairly before them, and eiable the House to form a fair and dispassion ate judgment on the subjth. He thought it necessary to inform the House, that the family of Mr. Grogan had been in very extraordinary and, indeed, most unfortunate circumstances. The very next brother to Mr. Grogan, and who would have been his immediate heir had he survived him, fell honourably, loyally, and gloriously, fighting the battles of his country. The other brother fought with the most determined bravery, till driven out of Wexford by the Rebels, who were greatly su perior in numbers, before the main body of the at my arrived, and therefore, under all these circum stances, added to a doubt, whether Mr. Grogan himself had not been forced to tight on the side of the Rebels, he thought the justice of the House would incline them to agree to the Motion. General LOF I'US said, that as a member of the Court Martial who sentenced Mr. Grogan, lie wished to say a few words. The officers who formed the Court were the principal men of rank and charader in the army, and every attention had b-en paid in the careful examination of the witnesses. Atter the sentence was passed, he was told by many persons of the town, that Mr. Grogan was not so much to blame as he appeared to be, on which he applied to General Lake to suspend the execution of the sentence fur some time, till he could make fur ther inquiry; to which General Lake consented, and the execution was deferred till evening, when not being able to find any fails in his favour to counter poise, or do away the evidence adduced against him, he went to inform General Lake of the circum stance, and the execution then took place. Mr. MA (CFI N explaineal. Lord CASTLEREAGH, in explanation, said, that as he now knew the °bk.& of the Motion was only to lay the foundation for reversing the attain der, he should have no objection to withdraw his Motion for reading the Orders of the Day. Ik tore he sat down, he could not, however, omit doing justice to the charaetets of Mr. Grogan's brothers and family, by allowing that they had always dis tinguadiNl themselves by the most unshaken loyalty and attachment to their King and country. His Lordship's Motion was then, with the leave of the House, withdrawn, and the original Motion was agreed to Mr. MARTIN then moved for a return of the particulars of the expenses attending criminal pro secution.: in Ireland, concluded at the expence of the Crown. from the Ist of Jan. 1795, to the lit of Jan. 1801 .—Ordered. Mr. J. FITZGERAL!) stated, that on the 11th of Feb. two Orders were made fine the produCtion of certain Papers, and in all that time nothing had been done in them. If there was any thing like a Government in Ireland, in the space of seven weeks this might have been done. fie referred, there fore, to the Speaker, for a proper form of words in which to shape his future ocedme. The SPEAKER said, that being thus called on, it was his duty to inform the ( lot:. Gentlem in and the House, that, in the first iii:tance of neglea, the course was to repeat the order is a more peremp tory manner, that the return be made lot thv.i.h. If that was not complied with, to order die pers..n or persons, whose duty it w.e, to make the return, to attend the louse, and answei tar the iie,tlea. Mr. FITZGERALD than moved that it be re turned forthwith. Ordered. MILITIA It; Li. . ..... The CHANCELLOR of the F.V.7IIII.QUER moved the Order of the Day, for tuv ititd reading of the Militia Bill, which was accts diugly real third time, and a new clause added by tray it rid ar, pi °riding for the wives and children of Militiamen, who may volunteer. On the question that the Bill do pass The Marquis of DOUG LAS opposed it, on the ground of its being a pernicious measure, and nn argument having been advanced to support it, wily an ipse dint, that those men may be of use ; the burthen, he said was Unetillal, and, therefore, un just. He repeated many of the arguments used in former stages of the Bill, and concluded by assert ing, tha, it would be the rain of the Militia, as offi cers of landed property would be excluded, and the confidence of the men destroyed. Mr. SHERIDAN said he continued in the same opinion he had formerly expressed, and agreed in that of the Noble Lord, that it would ruin the Mi litia. He objected to it in a Constitutional as well as Military and Political view. Ile ridiculed that part of the Preamble which states its being necessary to increase the Regular forces, and asked when this discovery was first made ? %Vas it not equally ne cessary last year, when the Right Hon. Gentleman said, we had not even a day or au hour to lose ? Where was his favourite and mighty Defence Bill? the necessity was equally great when that was brought in, and yet it has totally failed, for out of 17,000 men it had not pmdtaced one. Mr. PITT said. the statement of the Hon. Gen tleman was the very reverse of the fa& Mr. FOX said, the denial of the Right Hon Gentleman, as to the statement of his I lon. Friend, could only apply to his assertion, that, instead of 17,000 men, the bill had not produced one. Taking it strifly, his Hun. Friend was inaccurate. it had, however, produced very few, and might certainly be said to have altogether failed; and yet the Right Hon. Gentleman had not found out till the month of March, that it was necessary to increase the regular forces. Ile could not account for this, units tm: WAS ashamed, and did not like to be the i:ryt to own the coniplete failure of his own favour i',• Bill. %Vitt) was it not the first meamre of Par liament? ttztbe Right Honourable Gentleman ought 1 11 to consider that, notwith s tandi ng th e iseo cipline of the Militia, these men will not be soldiers in the regular forces for some time and if we had not a day or an hour to II months ago, surely we had less now. He a, the language then used by the Right Ho, man against the late Administration, am now they acted in a kind of concert: hem conceive that when that Ad ninistration o.wct•C Ironed to i. Gentle. the epithets the Right Hun. Gentleman bestoienia • them, and saw him coming forward with this new temporary expedient, after proving the inefficiency of his Parish Bill, they must, however they may apparently agree, look on him with an eye of exul tation and superiority that could not be very grate. ful to his feelings. Viewing the Bill, therefore, only as a continuation of that inefficient, irregular, and nugatory measure, he should certainly vote againAit. The SECRETARY at WAR admitted that the Defence At had not answered, as yet, all the pur poses that were expeded from it, but that was virtu ally stated in the preamble of this Bill. He denied, however,that it had totally failed, as would be proved from its producing, upon the average of the last 13 weeks, from 180 to 200 men weekly, in Great Bri tain and Ireland, without at all inte•fer;ng with the regular recruiting. The latest weekly r A era was Idl men,and heasked whetherthere was any good reason to give up that produdive measure, I:rcause an ad ditional one was proposed, which would afford .ut immediate accession of 17.000 men to our dispose. able force ? It could not be expeded that any spe ciflc object should be stated for the application of this force. as it WAS fully sufficient to say, that the country was engaged in a very arduous war. Mr. FOX said, that what had been represented of the Defence ACI now producing 200 men weekly, was no argument of the success of a measure whiel was calculated to have produced 17,000 men, not in the whole empire, but in Great Britain only. The SECRETARY At. WAR. a% lord, in rcpt:, that, front its cried% hitherto, there was every reas. to conclude that it was already producing at the rate of 10,000 men annually. Mr. FOX insisted, that the Defence Aft had, at least, totally failed of dialing what was prom.sed from it. Mr. SHERIDAN thought it was an incontestible proof of its failure, that the Regular Force, which it professed to augment, had, during its op rra.ion, suffered a decrease of 1000 men. Mr WINDHAM conceived, that the sece-ss of any public measure was to be judged of on a com parison with what was promised from it, and iron that scale it was no defence of a measure .voich pas promised to pro lute an immediate accessiva of 17,000 men, that it had gradually produced as much as three or four thoesand. If ir as no just cation of that aft, that it performed a fourth or fifth of what was professed from it, ally mole than a man could fulfil All engagement of is aiking Irons this place to York in four days, to say th it at the ch se of the fourth Jay he was advanced on his way to Doncaster. Whatever may he augured of its future success, it would surely be too touch to say, that it had hitherto succeeded. The dole ye gained was no test or presage of its ever accomplishing any of its ()bk.% as a great compreileiisive measure for raising a 541116,!:It disposeable force. The most trifling variation in the centre would make a very wide differen:e in the circumference. This bill was a mere trarisfer of meet from one establishment to another; but could not be called any addition to our Military Force. It was now doing by violence, wnat was before proposed to be done by more gentle methods. From the language of the advocates and the proposer of it, he understood it to be :ntended that, should this bill provide the 17,000 men, the ad ditional Defence Aft would net be proceeded upon, and, if so, why not give it its proper name of a repeal of the fie mer measure? 11'hy should the Defence Bill be suffered thus silently to expire, and fade from the sight in the manner-of a vision ? ‘A . hy should the Parish Bill retreat, without that retre.ic being seconded, and the trial, which was so carti e.tly demanded for if, postponed ad Graces Ca lendar? Mr. CANNING admitted that there was a great difference between the statement of complete failure and complete success; but neither of them hitherto applied to the drat% of the Detente Mt; and the present Bill, so far from being a repeal of it, was not of the same nature with that measure. That Bill succeeded so far as to produce at the rate of 10,00) own annually; but it had failed in raising immedi ately all the accession that might have been ex- pelted to the disposeable force. He did not compre hend on wha , grouild the Gentlemen opposite to him, who loudly and warmly complained of the smallness of our Reeular Army, coact consistently. vote against a Bill, the plain and obvious obj:C l which was to convert ieto a disposeable tore, that which was at present indispose:Ole. Tile Right Honourable Gentleman who spoke last had never alleged that the number of men we had in arms were not sufficient for the defence of die coun try, but uniformly complained that they were not disposeable nor applicable to all the purposes of the, war. All seemed to concur as to the necessity o f reinforcing the Regular Army, and therefore the objections could only go to the want of doing so. It was singular enough to observe gentlemen, who wished for the reduCion of the Militia, oppose b the gradual and immediate reduftion of it. He did not well know what to think of the sincerity of those who aCted in such a manner. On the Slave Trade. for instance, if a Member was to be an advocate for the abolition of the Slave Trade. and yet objeCtboth to the gradual and immediate abolition , he believed there were few who would give him much treat tat his sincerity. As to what had been said on the as sumption of its being unconstitutional, he had only t.) observe, that it would be in vain to disguise that ever y measure, calculated to raise a great addition to the regular and permanent military force, must, in this free coantry, be necessarily a matter of com promise with the principles of the constitution ; and the argument s that the rewards and bounties would operate as a sort of compulsion, would be cquallY applicable to every branch of the military service. Mr. WINDHAM sooke a very few words in ex plan.itioe. After which the House called very loudly for the question. Mr. GILES then addressed them. He said, it sea. not Iris intention to detain them any tardier than making a very few remarks, in answer to the assertion, that the present measure was not a virtual repeal of the Defence Aa. That Aft bad duo rn tooth yawl tw^: s ne cis gil thai Gm of I a n d t 4