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• acknowledge they ever knew of for destroying Vouchers, but sometimes, that persons over . so floe towards the top, that the , and discovered every defedl below. it, Sir, as a heavy aggravation of the against the Noble Lord, his having core concealed those in egularities of conduel in Totters deriving profit from the application blic money till the confession was extorted t o And if the Noble Lord was so sensible defens of Mr. Trotter's memory, why, I did he destroy those papers which were teessary to preserve, with accuracy, the stature T oilet of the transanions which passed be. t hem? !! A man's memory may depart toolay, in a time of need, which m,iy Uncalled for toonorrow." Even the Right (..,..ntlzman opposite (Mr. Pitt), whose sud- Al unassisted recollection of the occurrences ten or twenty years past has surprised many , by is„-, as it were, into one focus the various trans m of tho periods ; yet even he, when the Committ se ee came to ask him questions re ig recent events, could say that he not recollect, and that he bad preserved wr i t ten documents. I therefore, Sir, cannot --sly regret the destrunion of these vouchers. mil, Sir, so strongly do the circumstances sing to criminate Viscount Melville, press therm s u pon my mind, that I cannot hut think, if were to go before a Jury, and the Noble Lord to slim the privilege of challenging and sift that Jury, and to be tried, almost exclusively, by men of his own choosing, I think it next impossible for them not to pronounce set:- , e against him ; the proofs of his malversation o ffice, amounting, in my opininti, almost ter wnstration. But it will be sufficient for my pur. to insist, that presumptive evidence of guilt sufficient to put the Noble Viscount on his ; and, that the grand inquest, before whom I now the honour to speak, 'ought to find the But, Sir, it 'so happens, that we have in this o not .only presomptive, but also positive proof guilt; for we find, that Mr. Trotter paid vari. • sums of money into Viscount Melville's hands. s Viscount Melville &fly the advances of Mr. n of from ten to twenty thousand pounds ? but, in a sort of mixed language between de on the one hand, and avowal en the other, he :s the rabjen, and passes on to the subjen of Loyalty Loan, respening which, as it but little I ens the subjen matter of our present considera. shall not particularly dwell. But what I o to he satisfied about is, whether Viscount Mel lac can vindicate his assertion, that he dealt with Trotter in these advances, as he would with other private agent? I would ask, whether the pranice- of agents to lend their prin. s money without interest ? and whither it be credited that Mr. Trotter could lend Vis- Melville from 10 to W),oool..without receiv sots advantage for so doing ?I , Might not Vis- ' . Melville have justly said to him, You are creature—my clerk—can I then receive a favour you without au acknowledgment ? If you me from 10 to 20,0001. it must be from e purse. Upon such ground I cannot ac it." But Viiscount Melville. so far from tell- ' ing Mr. Trotter WI thing to this effort, now says, by way of palliation or excuse, that this traps-anion only happened onto; whilst Mr. Trotter, on the crier hand. acknowledges. that these advances hap pened often. In fag, Sir, the circumstances• of these advances are so contradietory and mysterious, that I consider it necessary, for the elucidation of them, that they should go to a trial. And this I am more fully persimil.:d of, when I refleft that Mr. 'I rotter continues to this very day to he pt i vote agent to Viscount Melville. It is a necessary debt which we nos' to the nation, to enquire 'lbw fir the pablichasbeenderrouded of that money, whether any be due to it, and into whose pocke:s it has iound its way. There are also other sums of money simi larly circumstanced, and which remained to be ac counted for ; sum of 20,0001. another of 3,001 Ikc. Mr. Trotter states in his examination, that he was employed by Viscount Melville to borrow about 23,0001. of which sum Mr. Trotter himself is found to be the lender. Whilst Viscount Melville on his part asserts, that he never knew that Mr. Trotter was the lender. How very strange does all this appear ! Can it he believed that Viscount Mel ville should think there was any other man in the kingdom, besidei Mr. Trotter, that would lend such a sum without requiring security ? And if there was any bond on the occasion, must not his Lordship have known to whom it was granted ? But if no bond was execine!, must not Viscount Melville have been sure that it could have been advanced' by no one but by Mr. Trotter? For that no one besides himself would have advanced it without requiring so much as a scrap of security ? And if no interest. nor security was required, I would pqt it home to the , conscience and jud g m ent o f every one to d ec id e ooether an advantage must not have been derived by Mr. Trotter from the public for such advances Flit this is not all—We also find, that another sum of about 23,0001 *as conveyed to the Noble Vis count through the hands of Mr. Tweedy and others. Referring to this transanion, Viscount Melville con tents himself with denying that he was acquainted with Mr. Tweedy. All this is possible, and yet he may have touched every farthing of the money "Inch Mr. Tsseedy was employed to convey to him Isom Mr. Trotter. This Gentleman acknowledges in his examination, that one half of this sum WAS public money; whilst Viscount Melville, in'his de once, has sunk all these circumstances, and we hear nothing from him as to what became of this 7noney ; so that we find distinct sums of 10, CO, and 40,0001. advanced to Viscount Melville opening whi c h we h ave nn pro per explanation, , rnner have we h ear d any thing said letterdi to ex repayment. p Vis count Melville states, in his to the Com missioners of Naval Inquiry, that he held other confi dentinaol: hesitate to situation s under Government, and that he did advance sums of money for e m !h el e t r il t ie h , an then Naval tit cervices ; but in 1716, Viscount andas,was neither Cabinet Minister, nor did. D i be hold 'triter confidential stuations under the Crosvn. Viscount Melville re fixes to give any account to what purposes these sums :vereissued to other than to Naval services. n: rvices. t But if he h a d sa id, a Altho Ir re h f rom veal m o t iv es I o and delicacy, I cannottheex express po t to which these sums were allotted ; yet, before some seled persons, I would in confidence reveal how these sums have been disposed of ," I should have been content if such persons had come before this House, and borne their attestation tb his in tegrity ; I should have been willing to have given him credit, upon their testimony, for his motives : but now lie comes forward and says, that be cannot tell you any particulars as to the disposition of these sums, not only upon public grounds, but also upon grounds of private and personal convenience : so that i; would seem, that he will not tell any human being what he has ! done with this money, although professedly ad-' vanced by him for the public good ! Nay, his ar gument is to this effect, that if it should come out that this money was not actually applied to any pri vate us:, but, in fad, for the public goad. then we ought to be ashamed of the imputation which has been caet upon him in these transactions ! But, Sir, without receiving satisfadory evidence to the con teary, I hesitate not to charge it upon Viscount Melville, that this sum of 10,0001. was converted to his private use, and also that the 20,0001. the dis position of which was never explained, was con verted to his own use. It is in vain for him to re peat assertions that he ailed from die purest motives; in vain is it for him to indulge the delusive idea, that his memory will descend to posterity without a blot, unless he comes forward to trial, and, after a fair end fall investigation, purges himself from every suspicion which stow attaches itself to these transadions. And if he has any friend in the House, or any feelings of honour, he ought to court of the House of Commons an enquiry, and to undergo a fair examination before his Peers, so that by the examination of witnesses upon oath, he may be able, if possible, to clear himself and wipe away every stain. Beni •ibis not the mode of conduct which Viscount Mel ville seems disposed to pursue. On the contrary, he say s—" lam innocent, but do not try me." But when he at the same time tells you that he will not reveal to you, or any one, the dispusieion of this sum of money, how, I marvel, is posterity to be sa tisfied, if no clue be afforded by which these calum nies which nosy attach to him can be overturned If, then, I have succeeded in impressing upon the House one tenth part of the ccnvictiArt of.iny own mind, from the report of the Seled Committee, as well as from Viscour.t Melville's speech, the House cannot refuse to vote for the Impeachment for which I shall have the honour td move. lint I must also briefly advert to the sum of 40,0001. iii the affair of Mr. Jellicoe. 'Phis person was in office when Viscount Melville was appointed to his Tri asuiership ; ioe had then balances is hi; hands to a consider•ible amount. Viscount Melville wrote a le:ter to him on the subjed ; Mr. Jellicoe offered to give security for the amount. but this security was never taken ; and in fist it would seem, that this very indulgence of leaving such considerable rams of money in the hams Accountants, led to else fatal circumstances sehieh terminated in his death. But Viscount Nieiville. in steed of requiting of Mr. Jellicoe to mace good the balances due from him to the public, and taking the securities in his possession to prevent the public from being defrauded, took no such security, nor did he suspend Mr. Jellicoc from Isis office. There are likewise various other instances of malversatien in office of which Viscount Melville took no notice. Viscount Melville leas stated indeed that the utmest exertions had been male to recover the money to the public out of the remaining property of Mr. Jellicoe ; but still it appears, that for many years no step had been taken to recover this money. It had been stated, indeed, to the Naval Commis sioners, that the greatest part of this balance had accrue , ' before Mr. Dundas Cline into t'•re Treasu rer's Office ; hut it appears unquestionably, that he suffered the balance in Mr. Jelecoe's hand to aug ment from 27 to 37,0001. whilst Mr. Jellicoe'tpre atecessors had not been suffered to hold a balance of more than 7,0001. lint in the face or all these stubborn fads, Viscount Melville now says, that he should have considered it as great injustice towards him, if be had not been acquitted of this loss which the public had sustained. And I cannot but consider it as unblushing effrontery, both in Viscount Melville, and in Mr. Trotter's asserting that the whole of this balance was due before Viscount Melville came into the office of Treasurtr of the Navy. And let it also be observed, that wbeit Viscount Melville received the whole of One sum, riot a stiver was paid of this acquittal to Viscount Melville's prede cessors in office, as I contend should have been the case. With regard to Viecnnnt Melville's prefer ence of the choice of officers, it appears (after all that he has advanced in his speech upon that sub jed) that the ground of his preference for holding the office of Treasurer of the Navy was for the sake of emolument, as connected with the appoint ment to the Presidency of the Board of Controul. He says, indeed, that these two appointments ought always to go together. But why it should be so I cannot see. The President of the. Board of Controul is amply repaid otherwise. 1 fps peeterence therefore, for holding at one and the same time these two offices, could only be for the sake of private emolument : and although he pro fesses that he had no predilection for the oaice of Secretary of State, which he only agreed to retain for a short limited time, yet in fivt he also continued to hold that office, and thet for the space of ten years. The Noble Lord talks of his disposition for retirement; but when, upon a change of Ministry, he retired for a season into Scotland, no sooner did he expel the overthrow of that Ministry, than he repaired from Scotland with twenty or thirty proxies in his pockets, and forced himself into office again ; in that it appears that none of the pleas adduced feom his age, health, love of retirement, &e. had weight with him sufficient to prevent him from joining in the political bustle and management of public at fairs. Viscount Melville deprecates impeachment on account of the punishment which he has already sustaitied ; but I say. that he has not been punished as he deserves: for the result of the examines ion at the Seleet Commitce calls for additional punishment. so far at least as to put him upon his trial, so that, if indeed he he found innocent, he may be ac quitted ; but that if; after a fair and full its yestigetion, he be found guilty, he may be Iniaielted in the face of all mankind. I should expend, indeed, that Viscount Melville's parti cular friends would vote for his impeachment, as the only means by which his innocence can be cleared p if, indeed, lie be innocent. But I am aware that some Gentlemen have said, Shall we go into the tedious business of an im peecliment, and have the minds of the public di verted from the public defence of the country, when a cunning enemy is at your doors, and the most vi gorous me. urea for repelling invasion should be pursued by all ranks?"—But, I say, that your moments cannot be more usefully em ployed, than in the punishmentof great delinquents, which becomes a matter of great national import ance, and that it is the fault of thrise delinquents that your time is thus employed, and not your fault. Nor does it necessarily follow, that impteeciennents go into any great length. Where a good littler standing subsists between the two Houses, no great length of time need be requisite. I find, in the case of Lord Macclesfield, that the impeachment hated only twenty-five days, no great expellee of time; and if no more time should be consumed in the impeachment for which I shall now have the ho nour to move, I contend that it will turn out to be of public benefit. Nor, I trust, will any Member refuse to grant me his vote on account of his grudging the ex pence. If we are too poor to be rohhed.we are not t'3o poor to do ourselves injustice. It Lord Melville be innocent, no sum of money should be considered tco great to clear him, if pos sible; nor, on our part, should we think much of any sum of money which may be requisite in punishing him, if guilty. Vise. Meville has thought fit to remind ' us, that he is now raised to a superior rank and sta tion. But I ask by whom? By his Sovereign,nwhose interests he has hnestyed,and by the recommendation believe, of a Minister, now also a Peer, who must have head ignorant at ehe time of the mal-practices which are now bringing to light. If guilty, it should be known that the whole body of Peers have beee-thegrilead -ay his adoption ansongra them. At all events I consider it my duty to move, and I think that it is also the duty of this House to resolve, 't That Her/ a Y Lied ri,troind M F LVIL Le be imeenciled of high crime: nvi m:ldernenrsors." Mr. Whitbread stated, that he held in his hands other articles of charges and resolutions, which, however, he did not read. The Motion having been seconded, various Gen tlemen anxiously presented themselves to the Speak er's eye; after some time, Mr. Bono obtained the hearing. Mr. BOND began by declaring that he was anx ious to offer himself to the House in this early stage of the debate, irrasmuch as, although he agree ' with the Hon Gentleman in many of his Argu ments, yet he disagreed with him as to the proposed mode of proceeding. He therefore wished to move en amendment, foe the purpose of removing the difficulty which he felt to the motion now before the House. He felt that the Honte was involved in some degree of emharrassment from the method of proceeding which they had hitherto adopted in this business. When the Hon. Gentleman first proposed a motion of censure, he had voted against it, be cause he considered the motion at that time to be premeture, not being grounded upon all the cir. cum tences of the case, and thinking,. as he did, that they ought ail to be taken t :gether ; and, had this been done, the House by this time might have drawn nearer to a ennclnsicm. The next pro ceeding was the appointment of a Selea Committee, fur the purpose of enquiring into other matters; then came the motion for the Attorney G.neral to instituse a civil prosecution; then a question arose, whether a civil or a criminal proceeding were froourahle. The House rad itheniy passed a cen sure upon the Noble Viscount. lie for one could not agree in thinking this was no punishment ; for his own part, he should consider it as one of the most erievonshard..hips of lite to be exposed to it. Neat to this, Viscount Melville had been forced into a resignation of one of the most honourable I and important of under Government ; his name had also been struck off the list of Privy Conn sollors ; all these were the effeels of the censure passed upon the Noble Viscount by that House ; a civil 'proceeding had, at the same time, been adopted, in preference to a criminal one. The ques tion was now, whether there .vas snthcient addition. al matter to induce the House to adopt a different course of proceeding ? He thought, that if new cir cumstances of sufficient weight had occurred, since the late resolution, this was a sufficient ground for adopting a new mode of proceeding ; and he thought chat such new discoveries had - been the re sult us the labours of the Sele& Committee. The first of thew circumstances that struck his mind, was that of Lord Viscount Melville's participa tion of the public inoney.—NJ one could doubt his having acknowledged to have received ten thou-' send pounds, whilst he refuses to tell to what purpose that sum was applied ? And ought not the House in right and justice to inquire to what use this money was applied ? Was it as a loan, or as a gift ? Cohld it possibly be attended with such sort of delicacy of circumstances that it could not be accounted for?— Again, wish tespeen to Viscount Melville's partici pation of the half of V 3,0001. which was public mini, no sat:sfeCtory answer had been obraieed upon that point. 'f ee question then wes, Whether these new bias which had transpired, as to a parti cipation of the public money, were not of sufficient magnitude to convert the prosecution from a civil to a criminal one? It appeared that money had I been devoted from its proper source; and the charge new brought against Viscount Melville was that of a connivance, and that he had also thereby derived an advantage. He had a right to impute to Vis count Melville that he had participated of the pro fits, if he found the Noble Lord'e hand laid upon the public money, and that money remained unac cusinted for. Resides these, there were others. lie new alluded to the conversation between Mr. Reikes amid Mr. Pitt, in which the former Gentleman stated to the latter toe the public money had been improeer ly applied. Mr. l'itt spoke to Viscount Melville on the subjelt, who answered, that there was only such money in the banker's hands as WAS wanted for im mediate service : but did this turn out to be the fact ? He could not impute blame to Mr. Pitt, be cause of his being deceived; for, is his official situ ation, and so many public concerns pressing upon his attention, he was necessarily obliged frequently to place implicit confidence in those who acted with him. but it seemed pretty evident, that Viscount Meiville, at that time, knew that be was doing wrong, and that, therefore, it was necessary to im pose up .11 the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ano ther thing he found culpable in Viscount Melville, respeaing the release between him and Mr. Trotter. It did appear to Mtn, that this was done with cii cumstences of concealment, tor it lead not best with the privity 'of Mr. Spottiswoode's partner or ' son; and.as to its registration, it was well known to three who were acquainted with what wet ties tomary in public offices, that this gave it no pub licity whatever. The time Also when this telex e was executed. rendered the design of it very suspi cious. After the commission had been issued for a Board of Naval Inquiry, and after the issuing of their precepts ; and nn sooner was the release exe cuted, than it appeared books, as well as papers of accounts, were burned both by Viscount Melville and Mr. Trotter. If all this was innocently done, lie could only say, that Viscount Melville was the ;nose , ' ill-fated person he ever knew. The present mo tion of the lionote able Gentleman be considered as an application made to the House to in.titute farther enquiry. He should upon the whole prefer a criminal prosecution against the Noble Lord in a Court of Justice ; for as to any civil process by the Attorney General, there was, in his mind, an end - put to that mode of proceeding, in conse quence of the burning of the, books and paper:. It was true, that in some extraordinary cares, an , ordinary Jury was not so at to enqnire and &cite. es -, a higher tribunal; hut he considered such clod ats ; as the present sitfficierely plain to he underatn.4. , and decided upon by such a Jury. This .alana ; would have the advantage of less delay than the . mode of impeachment. If there were more dig- • nity in the latter mode, it was also r inre }million- , some, expensive, and tedious ; atid, although :retest r that there were sufficient grounds in the present 1.5. stance to proceed either by icreehment, of by , .criminal judicial process; rt.. in; the reason;, be . had stated, lie should prefer the latter moat a se- He was peratedeal that there couli be asaihistg more imparti it than the ad ati ninratiun of public jute. , tics in this kingdom. With regard to impeacluenent e . he wished that the trial ce Mr. Hastings could be blotted out of the page of hi-Ailey as well AS some others, but the other mode he considered .asan exceptionable. Every Gentleman must be, assur ed. that such a ctimination, carried on by the Attorney General, would he in safe hantknoreian, with others of the higher rAl.lics at the bee (wliette t ever might be their private political opinions), ' would not dare to betray any trust Ti posed in them, more especially when the e ) e of the put.. lie would he so steadfastly fixed upon [diem.-- He conclude!, that his idea of the bus : Less was. and he meant to move, 1' That the Tenth Report of • the Commissioners of Naval Inquiry ; the.iteaelte ;ions of the eighth of April, and the order for the Attorney-General to proceed at law against I leuff Viscount Melville, be entered as read ;' andithen be moved as an 3met:ilment to the original mule% . "'That after the word ' that; isa the oagitralenue -' Lion, all the rest be omitted, and thee the. fullow ing uordthe substituted in their place :" . "That the Attorney-General be direfted to coma:trice a criminal prosecution against Henry lewd Vl,- count Melville, for the several offences, eleill appear, from the said Report. to have barn s cos- i witted by the said Henry Lord Vicomte Mel- a vale—and that the Attorney-General be also direct- , ed to stay the fornceestngs in the civil suit Militated . against the 'aid ILl:try a...er 1 Vit.:count Melville, re- , speeting matters disclosed in the sent I'enth Report." a Mr. WHITBREAD rose in explanetion, onsi., I said, that his original inreetion was, that the At:cee . ney General should be clee.fted to sueopdemeeeett. • . .- ings, et least for the . preisei.i. in the corn sc ut. . The MASTER of the ROLLS, after some pre- , liminary observetioes, which ware spoken Metz low A tone we could nut hear [been, said, that ia print i f r tsebet andel justice, be thought a criminal prosecutt tt would be the most preferael-, and ee considered the question tieen before the Noose was a eta reapeet . a e to the choice of the diferent modes of proceed- , ing. The ordinary mode ef proceeding seas, in the way alteady instituted; there was elite another proceeding which might have been re.etted te, namely, by Filing a Dill of Pains and Penalties; bet. to add Impeachment .to the other modea of eroceeding. he thought the House wouid not be Jas.:liable in pursuing that me;enre. . If such' were to be adopted, for what purpose then were the resolutions of that House bid et the foot of the Throne? the avowed objede of which, wits to re move Viscount Melville from offices of trust under , the Crown, during pleasure; but the Hon. Gtatle ma3 (Mr. Whitbread) did net rest here ; her next brought forwent a M,tinn to strike the name of Viscount Melville of the list of His Majesty's Privy Council : this also wassffeSed. Ile therefore contended. that Viscount Melville had already sus- . tained sufficient punishment by the resolutions of the House of Commons ; and. he asked, were they now to enquire what further puuialunent was to be inflicted ? and was the Noble I.nrd to be put u; rat his trial, in order that some further puuislutent . might be added ? and was this to be done with no proposition to rescind the former resolutions, but to • try if possible and make same :addition to the past punishment? What was the see kit of the present debate? It was whether .1 CI antra or civil process should be instituted ; a n d what the advantages and disadvantages, when compared, might be ? The civil mode of proci Si 114. nee 6 erily implies. turtle e investigation, for the purpose of compelling Vis count Melville to refund the public money, and to account fur those sums of public money from which he had paeticipet • in private emolutnent 4, with Mr. Trotter. ' 'circumstances welch' have occurred, he considered, had meterielly changed the complexion of the case ; neZbe4 had attempted to say that this investigation would disclose more disci :.ft or additional evidence; nothing new could possibly come out upon. the en. quiry, and they should go before a tribunal to state those doubts which had been insinuated. without be ing able to state one single new fast. With respect to the application of the 20,0001. which had been diverted from naval to other services, that applica tion still remained unknown, and they were,without any further information as to this part of the Report, so that with resped to thi4point, they stood on web. ly the same footing as before. With reg ird to the charge against Viscount Melville, relative to the de struaion of vouchers and papers; the executing the release containing the clause already mentioned, WAS the only new point brought by the Committee be fore t it. i'reitic. With respect to this point. Viscount Melvele's guilt wholly censi ted in this, that be had signed a Ra.ease, which was sent down to the coati t. y to him,, containing a certain clauie for the stn. • ... G ums • ' • on • acknc c lause as that I t not happeneded ions, have built so d opt and Lainhas r as co nsider it, 23 the 1 , g "cealei those liTcrOntter's derivin, r. pu bli c money t th „ e hUn. And if tl , he defies of Mt .*u.•• ask, did he des ne cessary to preset , amount of the t n ID; ? " A , whin t oday, in un called for t n' 0 G e ntleman op and u nassisted re ten or twenty yea; g ing, as it were, * *Um of those pet • Committee c, ecu •ng recent e d not recollect, i writtem docume t acePti reg ret the troth, Sir, s o 5 .ding to criminate Te s upon my min ey w ere to go be. c ere to claim the pi g that Jury, and t( dive men of his irnpowible for t ace against him office, amountir emonstration. Bt se, to insist, that s alone sufficient to vial; and, that the a ce now the hate , But, Sir, it ase, not .only Pre' .1 guilt ; for we f s sums of money Aces Viscount M rotter of from to o 0! but, in a sort ial on the one han ifts the subjee, e L o yalty Loan, wizens the subje: lion, I shall not wish to he satisfied vide can vindicate Mr. Trotter in th any other private it be the pra&ice cipals money wit can be credited t count Melville fro ing woe advaotal count Melville ha' my creature—my from you withou can lend me Iron the public purse. cept it." But Vi ing Mr. Trotter a: