The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1805-03-22 00:00:00

Great Britain and. Ireland ought to be at par, what ever variance there might be In their mutual remit tances, from time to time—yet, upon the whole, , . they liquidated each other in the end ; and, if there was any difference, it should probably be in favour of Ireland. He acknowledged with the Noble Lord, that all the pecuniary difficulties of Ireland owed their origin to the unfortunate circumstances which rendered it necesary to resting payment ! • in specie by the Bank.—This it was which created a set of money-jobbers never known before, and who •mver could have any existence with out it. It was a rule confirmed by experience, that whenever the coin of a country was depreciated, the exchange must be against it, as had been ex emplified in Great Britain during the reign of William 111. and it even now happened that in those ' P .- parts of Ireland where payments are made in gui neas, the exchange was in their favour. With re gard to the present motion, he said, that though many of the inconveniencies it stated must be al lowed to exist, yet, asthis was not the timewhen the proper remedy for them, namely, the removal of the restrittion on the Bank, could beobtained, he did riot see how any good objed could be accomplished by it. and the.efore should move the Order of the Day. Lord HENRY PETTY said he fully agreed with the whole of the doßrine laid down by the Right Hon. Gent. respefting the fictitious nature of the balance of exchange against Ireland. He also concurred with him in considering the Motion made by his Noble Friend to be.a dire ft charge against the Lords of the Treasury in Ireland, in general, but by no means of a hostile nature against that Right Hon. Gent. many parts of whose conduCt he coesidered as entitled to the highest degree of ap peollstion. When the Lords of the Irish Treasury estillfeileed to the old custom of drawing bills upon England at par, none of the losses or incon veniences were experienced which occurred in the instance now before them. It was the deviation from ancient price which caused that flutuation in the exchange against Ireland, by which the coun • try sustained a loss of at least 40,0001. But in ad dition to this loss, he had to charge that Treasurer with a departure from, and violation of, what was called the Responsibility At, which strictly prohibit ed them to make any application of public money, unless by warrant from His Majesty, or the autho rity of Parliament. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not perceive how the condnc of the Irish treasury could have been represented in this in stance as affording a partial benefit to individuals, whoa the terms were declared and openly adver tised a fortnight before the time demanded for making bargains. It was their duty to have the remittances in time for the loan, the negleit of which would be highly reprehensible. Ho would not then enquire, whatever his own opi nion may be, how far the restriftion on the Bank of Ireland was alone the cause of the disadvant ages complained of, or, whether they may not be, in an equal degree, attributable to the deprecia tion of the paper, a. well as of the coin, in Ireland. If it arose from the depreciation of paper, it would of itself account for the balance of exchange being against that country ; for, as our paper circu lation was not depreciated, it followed that, between the two countries, there must be a dif ference in the circulating medium. The difference of exchange must, in a great measure, be regulated by the 'Wince of political reMittances and that of merchandise between the two countries ; and as the large remittances making at that time from Rag land, threw the weight of balance in the other male. it was reasonable for the Irish Treasury to coeclude, that the rate of exchange would naturally be kept down by them. On these and other grounds, be could not agree that the charge contained in *se resolutions was by any means made out. Mr. FOX said, he was glad to find it now offi cially acknowledged that the great mischief arose from the depreciation of money, instead of the fan tastical ideas sometimes thrown out in that House, tespefting the comparative value of money. Ano ther acknowledgment he was glad to find was, that the depreciation of the paper currency originated in the restridion of payment in specie by the Bank; and to these was added another confcsicm, the two former Were the causes of the nominal rates of exchange. It was true, he said, that the quantity o f e,-„1, remittances to either of the countries for poli tical purposes, or (CT mercantile objets. must, in this respect, have a very great effelt. But these principles being so established, he must still con ceive great blame to attach to the Irish Treasury for deviating from the ancient custom of drawing upon England at the current price of exchange. The operation of the new mode had the effeet of in ducing a general belief that the intention of the government was to bring the exchange between the two countries at par, which, being confirmed by other circumstances, produced speculations in the monied interest. that occasioned a considerable loss to the public. Mr. LEE said, that having been a member of the committee upon Irish affairs, and having attend ed carefully to the evidence they produced, he had some good reasons to saspeft the Committee is hat* been mistaken, in having ascribed the depreciationfla Ireland to the over-issuing of oaper by the Bank. The issues of the Bank of Ireland were ascertained and well known ; but it was the less surprising, that the paper of that company should be depreciated at home, when ever, the paper of the Bank of England experienced in that country a depreciation of 341. per cent. Mr. ALEXANDER also considered the depre ,ciation to be owing to circumstances altogether un connefled with the Bank of Ireland ; for the private Bankers, even about Dublin, aftually circulated notes beyond the issue of the National Bank ; which being, by one of its bye-laws, obliged to discount mercantile bills at one per cent. below the legal in terest,gave to other Banks a greatadvantage over it. Mr. LATOUCHE expressed himself favourable to the motion. on the ground that the Lords of the Treasury in Ireland, by the mode they adopted in this instance, obtain at last the terms for the public, which they might have done, even under the cir cumstance of the times. Much was certainly lost, by the generally credited report, that the exchange of - to be reduced to par, and eon contradifted by the Go perfenly well acquainted with -rocesture deterred the rner. --I on the oceasiun. of the tr►o con; tries was to the report not having been co 'eminent. which was perfetil its esistence. and its proce%:‘ diem from coming forward • Nt Mr. FOSTER, in explanation, observed, that the Committee of last year, so frequently alluded ta, had disapproved of the old mode of drawing bills at par upon England. The method which they seemed to point out, of having recourse to the assistance of the Bank of Ireland, had been re sorted to ; but they having declined all interference, the Lords of the Treasury, unwilling to return to the mode condemned by the Committee, found themselves, by necessity, compelled to recur to a new method of their ow•n. He was here interrupted by the SPEAKER, who reminded him, that he was going beyond the line of explanation. Mr. GREY observed that, though the Right Hon Gentleman said he had but one alternative left, either to return to the old mode condemned by the committee, or discover some new one himself, he would take the liberty of reminding him, that it was not drawing bills at par upon England which was condemned by the committee, but the attempts of the Lords of the Irish Treasury to lower the ba lance of exchange. He contended that there was a great loss sustained by the late experiments, whereas, the same effect was now produced by ad hering to the ancient praelice ; and, indeed, it was impossible to produce a more decisive proof of this injurious experiment, than the fad that since the time in question, two millions of the same loan had been raised in the old way, without having any effeet upon the balance of exchange. The attempt of the Irish Treasury to keep up the price must, at all events, have been frustrated, as it was known to every one that they must be obliged to dispose of it by a certain time. Sir W. PULTENEY said, the Bank Paper in Ire land had been depreciated more than three per cent. but he thought that might have arisen from many other causes, besides the want of the issue of gold. Mr. H. THORNTON thought the Noble Lord had not sufficient grounds for his present motion ; it was not the manner of passing bills, but the quan tity in the market, which was the occasion of the increase or depreciation of the Rate of Exchange. lle was afraid that the reduction of the issue of the paper of the Bank of Ireland could not be expected at present ; but he hoped that the Directors of the Bank of Ireland would have endeavoured to have effected as much as possible the measures recom mended by the Committee. Lord H. PETTY spoke in explanation. Lord A. HAMIL I'ON replied, but in so low a tone, we could not coiled what he said. Mr. FOSTER did not think it regular to go into a discussion on this subjed, but differed from the Hon. Gentleman on the causes of the Rate of Ex change, and concluded by moving, the other orders of the day should be now read. This question was put and carried The Sugar Drawback Bill was read a third time and passed. REDUCTION OF THE MILITIA. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose to make the motion of which he had given no tice relative to the reduaion of the Militia. He began by stating, that instead of keeping the Militia, as had been some time since proposed, to be ;ma dually reduced to 4.0,000 in England and 8,000 in Scotland, it was his intention to =limit a plan to the House, by which it should be done in a more expeditious way, and so as to give a very consider. able disposable force to the uses of the Regillat Army. The total number of Militia at this time in Great Britain, amounted to between (9 and 70,000 men. By reference to Aas of Parliament, he be lieved it would be found, that the portion of Eng. land was 41,000, and for Scotland 8,000. These numbers were, however, only applicable to rank and file men ; and, in order to ascertain the exalt num. her, it would be necessary to take in the corporals, who in number were about 2,300. This would bring the number altogether to 51,000, as that which was the force of this kind originally intended to be kept up. At the present moment, it stood at 611,000 men, of which excess he meant to avail himself ; and if his proposition should be acceded to by the House, it would give an accession of 17,000 men to the regular and disposable force of the country. Not merely the number of men to amount, but 17,000 trained and disciplined soldiers, f• and ready to go upon any service what ever, at even the ;,lasrtest notice. It was, he said, generally allowed by all, that it would be a great and essential addition to :I_ , e army, and which, in the present circumstances as r.I state of Europe, could not fail to be attended i7ith effeas the most beneficial and important to the interest and welfare of this country. He should not, however great and important as measure appeared to him to be, endeavour to propose it, if he had the least idea or doubt that it would prove any serious detriment to the Militia, for he was one who looked to the zeal, patriotism, and usefulness of that valuable body of men, with as much pride and respea as any other Honourable Gentleman could do. He thought, however, the circumstances of the country, and the ♦ery considerable excess that at present prevailed in the numbers of the Militia, fully justified him M making the propositioa to the House, which was, at present, the objet of this address to them. He had, for some time past, formed his opinion, that the Militia ought not to be continued at a higher number than he had abovensentioned, on the same ground as °then Han. Members on the Opposite side . of the House, who had all repeatedly stonetsored in genii menu, that it was wrong to beep so many men locked up from being used as a dispmeable force, and from the still more urgent and forcible argu ment, in which all were equally agreed, that it tended very considerably to detriment and prevent the recruiting and maintaining the regular army. And, added to this. he had also received the decided opinion of many principal officers in the Militia, that continuing it at such an extent as it had lately been carried to, was rather against the original principle on which the Militia was formed, and tended, in many respeas, to weaken it. That point being de cided, an aft had also been passed, that from that period, when any vacancies shall take place in any regiment of Militia, they shall not be filled up till such regiments shall become reduced to the ori ginal number at which it is to be permanently kept. This would, however, be a means of re ducing the Militia, which would be very tedious and dilatory, and much impede the increase of the Re gular Army ; and it was, of course, highly desira ble that some more prompt and allive measure . _ z.-. , ... ~ should be adopted. He had also a further reason for accelerating its progress,which was, the great ne cessity there was for officers to carry on and keep up the discipline of the Militia, there trot being, at the present moment, a greater number than was abso lutely requisite to officer the several regiments, ac cording to the numbers to which they are to be re duced. If with this, said • he, you couple the cir cumstance of the great want of men in the Regular Army, he put it to the serious consideration of the House, whether there ever was a moment in which they could, with more likelihood of success, appeal to the zeal and patriotic ardour of the Militia to volunteer their services, than was the present ? and whether, by any cold, unnecessary delay, they would lose so fair an occasion of adding so con siderably to the strength and efficiency of the Re gular Army ? These, he said, are the general grounds on which the measure rests, and he thought them so very plain and evident, that he should not have thought it necessary to have dwelt on them at so much length, if he did not know, from certain communications which had taken place, that the measure met with the disapprobation of certain Ho nourable and respeftable charaders, for whose judg ments he had the highest regard, and whose con currence of opinion he should always be proud and happy to possess. Highly, however, as he va lued their judgment, and desirous as he should ever be to pay every proper deference thereto, he had a public duty to perform, that was paramount to every other consideration, and he must persist in what he conceived to be necessary for the general interests of the regular army at the present crisis, though he would be ready and desirous to take every opportunity of consulting them, and so modi fying his proposition, as to make it as consonant as possible to their general wishes. He did not think it necessary, he said, in this early stage of the busi ness, to go into any greater length of detail in opening nu plan, than just to state a mere out line of its principal points. In the first place, he said, the proportion that can volunteer, will not be such as can risk the depriving the militia of such men as the officers think the best, and the mode he should propose was, he flattered himself, such as that there was scarcely any difference of choice, whether Government were permitted to take them, or the officers were allowed to have the selection. There were, he said, two ways of obtaining the quota from each reiment, which he would men tion. Having fixe d-the roportion to be allowed for each county, and this having been communi cated to the commanding officers, they shall be al lowed to choose such men as they themselves shall be most ready to part with, and having so seleded them, if the number amounts to four-fifths of the quota they are to find, that regiment shall be dis charged from any further call. That was one pro posal. The other was, if the four-fifths were not seleCted, the Commanding Officer shall, out of the whole number, set apart one half, which he shall actually wish to keep, and out of the remaining half Government shall be allowed to enlist such as may be willing to volunteer their services into the regular army, so as not to exceed the number apportioned as the quota of that regiment. He illustrated his meaning further, by supposing that any regiment, at present consisting of 1000 men, was to be re duced to 700 ; the Commanding Officer, according to he last mode, has the choice of setting apart .500, a 4 out of the remainder. the quota of latch regi mnits will be enlisted, if they choose to volunteer their services. In proposing this mode, he said, he hoped he had proved what he at first set out with, that the measure would not operate so as to de triment the Militia, and yet will, in fad, most essentially augment and strengthen the regular army. This, he said, was the general outline of the plan, and he was not aware that there was any ne cessity for enlarging further on it at present, unless any explanation should be required of him as to any part or particular point in which he might not have made himself understood. In that use, he should he ready to give every information and elucidation that was in his power. He would, therefore, only trouble the House to read his motion, which he did to the following purport : " That leave be given to bring in a Bill for allowing a certain proportion of the Militia in Great Britain to voluntarily enter into the Regular Army." The motion having been read from the Chair— Earl TEMPLE rose, and addressing himself to Mr. Pitt. asked him a question relative to orders for recruiting from the Militia having been already issued, and the recruiting parties gone down to the olacea when the Militia Regiments are severally in quarZzrs ? The (3.9ANCF.LLOR of the EXCHEQUER answered, that he :ziew of no such orders. Earl TEMPLE then proceeded to express his surprise that such a measure as :he present should be at this time resorted to by the Right ;-7.011, Gent. who had only twelve months ago made such mag nificent promises, that the regular army should be most speedily and effeaually augmented by his own famous Defence Ad—under the provisions of which the Militia was to be allowed to be gradually re duced, and the army perfetked without profanely touching and trenching on that constitutional body of defence. That wonderful Defence AO, which, till it was passed, the Right Hon. Gentle man was counting days and even hours, that im peded the immediate necessity of raising such a mighty force, as was not only to defend us against all attacks of the enemy, but to hurl back defiance, and threaten vengeance oa his own shores. He ' was, therefore, much surprised to see him now bring forward a Measure which was so very severe a rebuke and censure of his once favoured and all effeaing Defence Bill—which was, among the other nu merous wonders it was to work, to abolish the ballot —and by the present measure he restores the ballot, and abolishes hit own Defence Aa. Having thus indulged himself in his remarks on that particular AR, he adverted to what bad been said by the Right Honourable Gentleman in his opening this business. The Right Hon. Gentleman, said his Lordship, has assumed. that we all agree as to the necessity of augmenting the disposeable force of the country. It were peihaps to be wished and thought that all ought to agree on that abstrati question, but he could by no means allow that he was bound, or ought therefore to be called on, t agree to the Right Honourable Gentleman's mode of bringing it about. So far from doing so, he dif fered from him on the subjeß altogether. The next point advanced by the Right Honourable Gentle • • . man was, that diem cook% be nom ik e t h e present, for appealing to the soot oil *Oa* ej at Militia, to volunteer their services hto the Regul ar Army. In this too he differed from him, and be. fore he made that appeal, he would beg l eave to call to his recolleftion, as well as to the recollex. tion of the House, that when this measure s es , first and last adopted in the cake .of the ex. pedition to Holland, a most solernri' je om ile and pledge had been given by I lis Majestlrts then co. vernment, at the hard of which the Right Has. Gent. himself thee was, that a measure of suck a e s . cure should never be again recurred to. At A klb. sequent period, a similar pledge had been given by another set of Ministers on the same point. H e did not, he said, mean to refer to • the had been said in another House , for irregular and improper ; but he :a s House to it, as a matter well known, and part of the political history of the country, digg —li ese of His Majesty's Ministers had again seas m i t pledged himself that this measure should never be recurred to again. "Yet behold," said his Lo; I. ship, " these two Ministers, making these pies in two different administrations, are now become united; and, in defiance of both their solemn pro. mises, this very measure is again brought forward, and the Right Hon. Gent, this eight has decisec,4 that there was never a moment when the zeal it., 1 ardour of the Militia were so great as at the present , period to volunteer their services into the regular army. There was, perhaps an ardour at preen existing such as had been described, and I e as g Militia Colonel, could tell the HOWe bow rim ardour, which had been so warmly and forcibly as. scribed, had been roused." In doing this, h e would not mention it as a matter of doabl e or hearsay, or mere belief, but as a dntird* charge, whiclihe thought it his duty to bring for. ward. Government, his Lordship said, had givers orders to recruiting parties, under the command of officers or serjeants, to go into the different places in the country where Militia Regiments are quar tered, and to take down the names of such men itt the several Militia Regiments as are willing to so. lunteer, and to use eve' y means in their power to induce them to do so. In proof of this, his Lord. ship mentioned that a recruiting party belione i n u t d, to the Ist Battalion of the 3d Regiment Of had gone to the place where the Militia Regiment he had the honour to command was quartered, and had taken down the names, and endeavoured to seduce and crimp several of the men. Oa being informed of this, he wrote to the commantfing officer of that regiment, the answer to which letter he had in his pocket, and would beg leave to read the first three lines of it, which he accordingly did. and which purported, " that it being onderstoOdit was in contemplation to reduce the Militia, he had received orders to send down recruiting parties to enlist such as were willing to volunteer their wt. vices,"— thus, said his Lordship, have Govern. ment given orders, before parliament has agreed to the measure, to send out recruiting parties to crimp the men serving in the Militia, and to seduce them from their colours. The Right Hon. Gentians* had, with his usual eloquence, and flow of fiss wdrds, expressed his respell for that body of Ga. tlemen of which he had just been speaking; but, after such orders as he had Just mentioned, le hoped they would no more hear of delicacy, at lot towards Militia Colonels. It karibt yet, he 410311. tended, been decided that the militia was aCielly i at a higher number than it ought to be. If it Ids then Government have shown the high reaps& they have for those Colonels, by sending ordeWbsfore the Legislature has authorised and sant/imbed the measure, which will prevent the Colonels of the militia f rom keeping up discipline in their several regiments. Orders had been sent down lately to stop all courts-martial from being begun, and to suspend those which had been begun (a cry fire Mr. P.tt If bee-. heir. heir!). his Lordship sit) the Right Hon. Gent. seemed to differ from hie this point, but he was sure that stopping and st ing courts-martial at this moment, and purpose, could not well produce any other eft a certain injury to the discipline of the militia. House had been told by the Right Hon. Gent all agreed to the necessity of the augmentetion they did not all agree that, if it was necessary sirable, that it should take place at the - the land. There would be another tar ~ „ alsc as had Rif litig posed for this, and then he supposed we have another pledge, the measure should recurred to again ; but, after such repeated' promise, what security was the House to the due performance of any future pledge could they be sure that in a few months I may not be applied to in order to reduce to 20,000 men ? His Lordship then some part of the plan which had by cated to him by Mr. Pitt, which differed present. CHANCELLOR of the spoke to order, stud thought his Lordship to allude to any thing utich he, in the way rate communication, and to facilitate the I of doubts and difficulties, had mentioned He would leave, he said, to the Noble Lou to determine as to the propriety of doing se must appeal to the Speaker for the order of Earl TEMPLE said, the co*'— , - is L o rdsh ip said. lifer from him os slug and suspend. nt, and for this other effee that the militia. The Hon. Gent. the gmentetieel be necesseret t the ovens r tax to le ie. aced we ilide • should mew is epeatcd breach cf use to eapee for pledge; and hoe onths more the/ reduce the Milita hen adverted t. been commusi• differed from the EXCHYQUEIt edship aught n,x the way of pl. tote the row. , .1 entioned to h;„, oble Lord hint- .• doing so, but it order of the thing. nmunication e might therefore , that in doing ss ion, and was, 6 d found fault ail a to enlist. The and then goverr lunteer as far ss the refuse to the lion. Gads': ice of the teeentl in 40,000 militia being to fight the :fend it against a. .00ps, and not the been too short is detain the Houta d in, he experl Id give every ot ,sed in detail. measure t with injustice' ` • .!fy H to d He th'eouwghtl4": not confidential, and he thought he mention it. The SPEAKER informed him, that it. he was debating a different question, and course, out of order. Earl TEMPLE procilded; and found the mode of procuring the men to enlist. commanding officer WAS to sole& and ment were to take the men to volunteer the quota, and then send back the . Militia. He supposed the Right lion. most mean tc say, that the defence of does not now require more than 40,000 men. If so, however, these men being battles in the country, and to defend it attacks, ought to be the best troops, worst. He thought Ms. Pitt had been too his opening, but would not thcn detain " If the measure was to be persisted in, I. the Right Hon. Gentleman would give, portunity of having it fully discussed in Lord STANLEY thought the mess unconstitutional one, and fraught with individuals, because it was contrary to promises given by Government. He U-