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I I sad onjnetifiable than to say such was the intention or the object of I the Aesocatton. This Bill, when it received their lordship.' sene tics, may put a period to the Catholic Assot tenon ; bat was any see prepared teeny it would have cheerio' of putting an end to the AMOR of feeling and sertimert which at pteseet pervaded the bosoms of all Catholics on the subject of their tights and • et , tujustice of excluding them from a participation in the privileges of du Coestuudon ? Ile might bc told cf the Cerrespondmg So cieties, and bear that they had been put down by a lidl similar ka the preseet ; but those were small, and with respect to the feeling of the country, he believed isolated bodies ; so that it could nee be ioir to argue the edicts of a like enactment upon a larger body, and one which possessed the cetslidence of the population otliekind. Ile had little doubt of the submission of the Catholic Association to the intended law, be: what he did dread was, that the Catholics of Ireland should continue to ask, and Parliament to tit.aae, what was just. necessary. and politic, to be granted. It had teen,stated that the condition of Ireland was improved, and he was moat willing to admit it. and was convinced that the higher the Roman Catholic was raised in the scale of society, the meliors ton of the country would advance Ma proportionate degree. With cut improving the situation of the Roman Catholic, and admitting kim to the equal participation of civil rights, every other measure for the melioration of the counter would be inefficient there would be gall at the bottom of the cup which would turn all to poison. Every measure adopted while disqualifying laws existed would produce mischief. There were two things, either of whirl] would produce the most beneficial edict is Ireland . lie alluded to the arrangement of a provision for the Roman Catholic Clergy, toil to an alteration in the present system of freeholds, neither of which could be proposed or carried into effect while the disqualifi cations remained in force against the Roman Catholic population of Ireland. Ile hoped the Association would submit with a good grace to the decision of Parliament. but he also trusted their Lord ships would beware how they told six millions of people, possess ing rest poser and influence in the country, to despait tit the as id their just rights. Load CALTHORPE thinking the vote he bad given en the seemd reading of the Bull might be perhaps open to mistake or etisapprehenstoo, be was desirous of stating his reasons for that • vote. He wee free to admit his disapprobation of some of the mea sures and much of the language of the Roman Catholic Alumni tion ; but viewing the question before their Lonishipe as a great and importatt measure, calling for the exercise of reason, justice, and equity, he did think that other matters than the mere con duct of that Association were to be dente the subject of considers taws Coder Witt impression it waseshat he put the questioo, whether their Loelfshilis tbeneselves were not disqualified from passing this by their own conduct towards the Roman Catholics ? Much as • he lamented the proceedings of the Association, he lamented still more the former votes of that House in relation to the Catholics. Yet was he far from saying, if a case of great danger arose, how ever blameable the conduct of their Lordships might have been, • that the pressing danger of their situation should not overbalance • every other reason, and justify Parliament in the adoption of coer cive measures. Such a case of Imminent danger, and a proper confidence in the efficacy of ,the proposed remedy, would induce Lim •to vote its adoption. But was that the case at present? Ha begged to say he could neither see the danger nor an. reeve of the remedy intended. There was far less danger in the Catholic Association than in Parliament continuing to act in the sante spirit which had given no to the Association. lie agreed ' with his Noble Friend (Lhrd Ellenborough> in his opinion that the emednuatice of the Association would be mincipally injuricus to its own Muse. As it at present existed, it held out no appearances of danger : and it was only against the dangerous form it might as some that their lordships had been invited to legislate. As the opponents of Catholic claims persisted in describing the Catholic religion rather as what it was, than what it is ; so the supporters of this treasure prefer looking to what the Association may by possi bility become, than to its present actual state. Dismissing then the sea of any great and pressing danger to be apprehended from the proceedings of the Association, and disapproving of the pro posed remedy, he could not concur in the necessity of the present oose.ure. He was the more disposel to look upon this measure with I:occulter dissatiefaction, because it kept wholly out of view the only efficient means of satisfying his itlajmty's Roman Catholic subjects, erne substituted, for the healing and conciliating means which should be adopted, a mode of treatment vexatious, galling, and utterly irreconcileable with the best interests of the empire. It was not his wish to be understood by his vote to justify all the pro. • ceeilings of the Catholic Association, however strong might be his • feeling of the injustice the Roman Catholics had suffered. He en. tertained no partiality for the Roman Catholic religion as a system of frith; but it appeared to him that the arguments made use of by the opponents tri the Catholic claims were rather grounded on what the Catholic religion was known to have been in a corrupt and lomat age than upon its present state. It was not his intention to attempt a defence of the tenets or tendency of that religion, but, or the contrary, lie should feel the utmost jealousy of Roman • Catholic prients, who might be interested in the propagating of that religion, having seats in either House of Parliament ; but with regard to the Laity, he did not think their religious opinions would affect, or should be permitted to disqualify them in the en jayment of political rights- On the contrary, if they were admitted to their political privilege., and empowered to bold seats in Parlia ment,such concessions would &fiord the best antidote to the mis- chievous nature of their tenets. He gave the fullest credit to the n•otires that actuated Noble Lords in their opposition to the Roman leethOlic claims; and he could declare, that lecture his own mind was et ode up on the subject, his great respect toe the characters of these individuals made him exaotuto , into the grounds of their op. • pundits with more of circumspection and mistrust than he would otherwise have entertained. His respect for the motives and chs rActers of those individuals remained unaltered, but every year di- minished his respect for their arguments. The first and principal argument used ageism. the Catholics was one, that from its nature must be peculiarly offensive to them. No matter how respectable a Catholic is acknowledged to be—however scrupulous in motives or hocourable in feelings, he is asserted to be under such a spell of superstitious feeling, and so implicitly obedient to his church, that when a question ernes in which the interests of that church are at stake, no reliance is to be placed in his integrity. What would be the feelings of Noble Lords were such looseness of principle to be imputed to them ? As a member of the Church of England, one silo truly reverenced the purity of its doctrines, and counted it among his highest earthly privileges to belong to it, he must de precate the adoption of arguments of such a character. For if there was any thing in that Church which gave it a superiority over other Churches, it consisted in the circumstance of its having discarded traditional evidence, and substituted facts, sense and Scripture for the uncertain errors which had made Popery dangerous and in jurious. And he did think the opposers of the Catholic claims had, in the course they adopted, made use of an argument essentially Popish in its nature, when they appealed from facts to loose reasoniaga, and looked rather to the past than the present Hate of the Roman Catholic Church. There existed another consideration to induce him to believe the Roman Catholics had sustained peculiar annoyance, and therefore, though it was not his intention to justify the sets or language of the e essociation, yet it afforded a reason why Parliament should .ot :sit them with peculiar severity. It appeared as if every liberal measure adopted by his Majesty's Oovernment—the s temma cf cnnemercial restrictions—the new system of financial pro ceedings—ard the recognition of the independence of some of the Soot` American States—all these measures, which had been re. rinsed with approbation by the nation at large, only tended to ca et a darker shade on the proceedings of the Cabinet towards the Ro man Catholic population of Ireland. It was a strange and anoma iens ptcceeding to see Government conferring favours with one heed, while with the other they originated such a measure as the present. It would be in the recollection of their Lordships that teat House had been more than once instrumental in intercepting measures of grace and justice to the Catholics, while in their pro. owes from the other House of Parliament to the Throne. In the CASE Of the English Catholics, neither the representations of their loyalty nor their patriotism had secured success for the measure in tended for their relief in that Ileuec, but when conduct of a con- Herr nature was alleged against the Irish Catholics their Lordships ' felt no relumar cc in visiting with a penal enactment the absence, real or supposed, of that merit which in the former instat.ce they Lad thought fit to reward. This If Mae, which should be the organ and eaemple of justice, had nevertheless shown itself impo. Hot to reward merit, and eager to inflict punishment where the conduct to be condemned had originated in the proceedings of Par. itself. If this were to be done, and the Howe would ex hibit itself in tLat attitude to the country, he could not avoid ex pressing his regret at its having recourse to a measure so oppressive to a portion of their fellow-countrymen, who had already received treatment the most injurious at their bands. The LORD CHANCELLOR said,.he would never consent to the pasting of the pretest Manure upon the grounds and reasons • imputed to him by the Noble Lord who had spoken last. If the House Ltd done wrong in any former proceeding, let them set themselves to correct their error without any reference to the pre sent measure. He was satisfied such would be the conduct of their Lordeems, if it appeared tieeessae_y ; but he could not conceive how it wee possible for any Noble Lord to lay his hand upon his heart sod say he would pass that Bill because the House had hitherto been in the wrong, and it was necessary to maintain it by a continuation of the sante conduct. For himself, he wished to repel the allegation in the strongest terms; and as tits vote on that lisle was entirely unconnected with his past conduct, so he did not desite to have it construed into any pledge of what his future eounsc would be towards the Roman Catholics. He had arrived at the period of his life when he might shortly expect to tie called to AM account of his actions--end he could not, conscientiously say that AC that subject, as well as on every other, he had done what lie had thought it his duty to do—he would still continue to act in the same manner—he Would do what he thought it his duty to do— but whatever he might see it right to do in future with relation to the Catholic Question, he wished it to be distinctly understood that his conduct would not be in the slightest degree influenced by bis ereile upon the present measure. He had, as wax known to their Leedsbipe, hitherto restricted the concession of what were called the Catholic Claims—he had done so on conviction—and in the last thirty years he had seen no reason to alter his opinion—but he was still open to conviction. .nd if the arguments brought forward were convincing; he would yield to them. However, he put thst en tirely out of the present question. it was on the ground of the dsagerous conduct of the Catholic Association and its pernici- Gee tendeuey, that he consented to the third reading of the Bill, and on those grounds alone. lie would not lesve their Lordships' House with such an imputation resting upon his motives, without giving it his most decided reirinstliction. Lont DUDLEY and WARD felt considerable reluctance in voting for a ITICANUM calculated to restrain, in sonic degree, the or teary liberties of the subject, particularly when it was con_ &jeered that this measure was applicable to a body whose conduct was accounted for, if not excused, by the hardship and difficulty of thew situati n It was foe their Loreisl ips m ronnider what would b. thde own cond uct if es ciuded frosu advantaide s . constituting the common ;shimmy of their corntrymen—exclutleti, not foe crimes proved or suspected, but because they persisted in following the religion of their forefather+, and because their forefathers wore unable to see the great light which, slier a thousand years of dark nen, had illuminated the religious world *boat three hundred years ago. If their Lordship► thought such disappointments would not beget irritation—if they could themselves, under similar circumstances. kits the rod, and bow to the enforcement of what mast be considered as a harsh and severe measure, they • might vote for the present Bill without reluctance. Yoe his part. instead of the present measure, he was of opinion the Catholicclaims should be conceded, and the sooner they were granted the better for their Lordships and the country. Under such cireucustences he would be disposed not to scan their defects too nicely, to Mane many allowances, and overlook every thing that could be passed by with safety to the State. But there was a point where indulgence mutt end—that was the point where danger and defiance began. To such a pitch had the Catholic Association arrived. They had set up a Goveniment against the Government; a Parliament against the Parliament ; a revenue against the re venue. It was cot his intention to say the Association was re bellious in tact, or in its immediate design, but it was insur rectionary in its tendency—it possessed all the machir.ery of re bellion, interest and maturing for the arrival of the period when provocation might induce the people to take up arms. Such steps bad already been taken towards actual resistance, that Government neglecting to apply the proper degree of precaution would deserve to be be overpowered, Under such citcumstances it was better that the violent leaders of the Association should have to hail Par liament for doing its duty, than despise it for neglecting it. The constitutional right of mandating was not applicable to a society formed for undefined purposes, and to brave the Government itself. Such an As,ociation could not be put on the same footing with societies formed for ordinare, political, or religious, purposes, at with the view of tendering mistaken but well meant assistance to the Government of the country. Asa friend to Catholic emancipation he wished to lend his aid to the extinction of a society which he thought decidedly hostile to the attainment of that object. There were two ways by which the Catholics might expect to obtain their wishes— either by force or persuasion : If they meant force, he did not think any Noble Lord could be prepared to say their request po urged should be complied with; if, on the contrary. they Intended per suasion, the sooner the Association was put down ani its memory destroyed the banes. It was his desire that the Roman Catholics should be admitted to the enjoyment of seats in Parliament, and a fair participation of the (laces of the State—but failing abet, he did not wish them to be enabled to establith a Parliament and Government of their own. The Catholics had already received the assistance of his voice ; they should still receive it, but he could not endure that they should constitute thernselse sole judges of their own grievances, and adopt measures in defiance of the principles of the Constitution. The Earl of RODEN would take the liberty of putting their Lordships in possession of his reasons for voting for the BUJ before the House. The Noble ESA ( Lord Liverpool) who had introduced the Bill to the no:ice of the House stated the situation of Ireland. and the dangers and difficulties likely to ensue were the Catholic Association permitted to proceed in its progress. He agreed with his Noble Friend in his statement, and thought the necessity of the measure lolly made out by the assumptions and influence of the Association, which had arrogated to itself the authority of their Lordships and the other House of Legislature, in levying taxes and assumirg other functions only belonging to Parliament. He was aware the Catholic Rent had been represented as a voluntary con tribution, but there existed many instances of individuals who were unwilling, arid who disapproved of the objects of the As. sociatioo being compelled to contribute to that fund, not in. deed by open force, but by a no less effective and certain means, which existed in their dread of incurring the anger of the Association and the Roman Catholic Priesthood. He was in the hearing of several Noble Lords who could bear him out in his assertion, or correct him if be were in error. He called upon the Noble Viscount (Lord (fort), who seconded the Address, to testify to the truth of his statement. That Noble Loral also resided In Ireland, and must know the fever of irritation excited by the Asso ciation among both Protestants and Catholics. Every Noble Lord must mother the manifestos promulgated by the Association, and which had been placarded on the chapel doors throughout the country, recommending, it was true, tranquillity and conciliation to the people, advising them to disconnect themse l ves from Ribbon. men and White-boys, but, lest the,advice should be followed, re minding them of the hatred they should bear their Protestant fellow subjects. He thought (however it might be with the higher orders) that the Catholic peasantry enjoyed as large a share of liberty and constitutional privileges as the same class of persons in any other country. He was sure there did not exist a people more willing to acknowledge, with gratitude, the privileges and boons conferred by Parliament, if left themselves. These were facts that might not be very acceptable to Noble Lords ; but, as a Member of that House, and a well-wisher to liis country, he considered himself bound to state his honest opinion on the subject. He did not wish to state the objects of the Asso ciation, or judge them by the intemperance of their language, which might, as had been said, be the result of a natural Irritation ; but, nevertheless, the effects were the same ou those who heard them, whatever was its cause. He disagreed entirely in opinion from a Noble Earl opposite, who had stated, the Association, if neglected, we •Id fall away of itself. He could tell the Noble Lord it had been neglected during the space of a year, and in all that time it had gone on Increasing in power and in mischief. It was to Ire-hoped this Bill would effectually put an end to all associations in Ireland, whether of Protestants or Catholics—Orange and Green—lt was not his wish to couple those two kinds of associations together, because he thought them very different • tut the time for their utility had gone by, and he wishedtttl societies and annual processions likely to generate or continue irritation to be put a stop to. He thought the present Bill would have that effect on the Orange Societies—he hoped it would on the Catholic. The Noble Lord concluded with a warm eulogium on the Catholic Peerage of Ireland. The Earl of DARNLEY said he must differ with the Noble Earl (Roden) when he expressed his'opinion of the contentment of the Irish peasantry. He was satisfied that from Lord Fingall down to the lowest pelmet, all felt the degradation of the situation in which they were placed by an exclusion from Civil privileges. The Noble Lord had also indulged in a vituperation of the Catholic Association ; and it was not his intention to dery that the Association, constituted as it was, would, If extended and persisted in. be wholly unattended with danger; but he was per suaded the House possessed a better means of putting an end to all such Associations than that afforded by a penal enactment. He thought this sufliciently proved by reference to an event which bad taken place since the introduction of the present measure to their Lordships' House. He alluded to the vote of the Commons on the Catholic Bill. He was assured the Roman Catholics al ready felt the prospect held out to them by that vote, and enter tained no intention of resisting the proposed enactment, but, on the contrary, a desire to prevent the wishes of Parliament; and he thought the Association would prove this by dissolving itself. He hoped the House would give every fair and just consi deration to another Bill, which would come before them ere long, and confer their favours with frankness, sure of having them received with gratitude by the Irish Catholics. He implored their Lordships—he implored the Noble Lord on the Woolsack—he implored that venerable Bench which had so often defeated the measure of Catholic relief—to pause and consider the effects of constant disappointment upon the minds of the Catholics. He trusted that Bench, and among them the Lecrned Prelate (the Bishop of Exeter) ,wbo had presented an And-Catholic petition that night to the House, would not contiuue to refuse concession because of the suLposed dangers drawn from the state of the Roman Catholic Church more than a century ago. He trusted they would weigh well the danger of disappoint. ing nearly one-third of his Majesty's subjects in the pursuit of rights grounded upon the inalienable and irresistible prin. ciples of justice. He would earnestly intreat their Lordships to reflect on the consequences of their continued refusal. If the Administration could not agree upon this subject, it was perfectly practicable to find a Cabinet that would. The sentiments of the people of England were not, as had been stated, hostile to the concession of Catholic Claims ; and the best proof of that was to be found in the absence of all petitions against them, except from a few of the Clergy, and in obscure parishes. Whatever measures of conciliation or melioration could be devised short of a perfect equalisation of civil rights to every class of his Majesty's sub jects would be all thrown away upon Ireland: without that, the Ro man Catholics never will, and never ought to be satisfied. This ques tion most be set at rest by their Lordships in some way or other ; for a year or two, with die as'sistanceof garrisons, and in a time of prospe rity and pe ace, they might successfully persist in their present course; bat in event of a war, p,ittl ip times of di ff iculty, it would be impossible to go on governing Ireland as they bad hitherto done. I In conclusion, the Noble Enid observed, that if their Lordships passed this Bill, he hoped it would be accompanied by that healing measure which could alone secure lasting peace to Ireland. If their Lordships did not consent to that healing measure, he thought that though distuthances might he temporarily suppressed, we could never reckon upon permanent peace in Ireland. The Earl of RODEN begged to explain. in allusion to what had fallen from the Noble Earl (Darnley). He had not said that the peasantry of Ireland were well satisfied, as the Noble bort appear ed to apprehend ; he had merely stated that, in his opinion. the peasantry of Ireland enjoyed as much rational liberty as any pea. santry in the world. Earl GROSVENOR Stile amidst cries of " Question !" He would not trouble their Lordships with ninny words, but he wished diem to pause and consider the question which they were called upon to decide, especially as the Noble Viscount (Dudley . and )Yard) had so strongly expressed the alarms which he entertained, The Noble Viscount talked of the amount of the Catholic net as if it was an immense mum . • he seemed to compare it with the Bri. tish Exchequer. Now what was the entire amount of the Catholic Rent ? only 10,0001., whilst the income of this country was esti. mated at about sixty millions a-year. He wished their Lordships to pause before they passed this Bill, which lie feared would be fatal to the repose of this country and of Ireland, unless it passed accompanied by the measure to which his Noble Friend (Ds:7; 1 121 adverted. They should consider, he thought. , before they this Bill, without hearing one word in defence from the much-ma ligned Catholics of Ireland—without hearing anything to clear those difficulties which had been thrown in their way by minepresenta tiens—misrepreeentations to which the Noble Earl at the head his Majesty's Government was subject, as was evident from the anecdote he had heard of the person having been distrained for not contributing to the Catholic Rent. On this point confessedly the Noble Earl had been misinformed. This must convince their Lordship's how much they were taking upon themselves when they passed this Bill without any inquiry. They should remember, too, that they were not fully in possession of the sentiments of the No. ble Lord who was at the head of the Irish Government. If they proceeded to decide without the coupling this measure with an equi valent—without attaching to it some measure of conciliation—if THE BRITISH PRESS. they proceeded to legiakte when the Catholic population had in. creased prodigiously and now automated to one-third of the whole population.of this kingdom—if they proceeded to legislate with temerity, and withemt having made any proper introduction, he repeated, that he feanklaucli an Act would endanger the peace of this country and of Ireland. 11: had heard from public rumour, but coukl not say whether it was true, that the Orangemen of Ire ' land meant tir propose, awns measure calculated to inixigate party • rancour iti that comity,. If this report had any ioundation, he hailed such an intenftein with unaffected joy, as a most favourable omen. He was glad to hear of such an intention, as it afforded de cisive evkleree that the roads and animosities which were known to exist in Ireland weee already moderated in some degree. Under any arrangement witch might be entered into, he hoped the Ca tholics of Ireland trould he put in possession of their civil rights and privilege.. The Roman Catholic Clergy hail been assailed in some quarters, but there was the testimony of a man who ought to know them well, he intact the Attorney.Oeueral of Ireland, and he trail described thou as an exemplary body of men, entitled to the highest praise. They were also acquitted of entertainirg any views as to the possession of tithes. He wished that his Majesty 's Mi. :ileitis would stare their determination with respect to the Protestant Establishment of Ireland. After die discrepancies of opinion which obtained regarding this establishment, some precise account of its situation would be extremely desirable. At all events, he trusted that the spirit °lead conciliation wouli be Inchd in view, a spirit which he was confident would be productive of the greatest benefit to Ireland. The Dill was then reed a third ticna and-passed, without a The House adjourned at Eight o'Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Moxpsv, ALtacm 7. LEITH DOCKS BILL. Mr. WM. DUNMAS moved the second reading of the Leith Docks Bill. The Bill was read a second time, and committed. GRAVESEN. AND WROTHAM ROAD BILL. On the motion of Rt. JOHN BRYDQES, this Bill MU read • second time, and committed. LONDON DOCKS. Mr. Johnson presented an Account of the Receipts . and Dis bursements of the Leads% Decks Company, from November 30, IW, to November SO, ROTH EReITHE DOCKS. On the motion et Mr. T. WILSON. the Ratberhithe Docks Bill was read a second time, and committed. ST. CATHERINE'S DOCKS. Sir FRANCIS OMMANNEY presented a petition from Barn staple in favour of the St. Catherine's Docks.—Ordered la lie on the table. CANDLE DUTIES. Mr. SYKES' presented a petition from the city of Edinbargh, praying for the reveal of the Duties on. Candles.—Ordered to be printed. 'CATHOLIC ASSOCIATION. Mr. JOHN 'Sit !TB presented a petition from a parish in lie land against the Iti:1 foe putting down the Catholic Association.— i Ordered to be printed. CATHOLIC. EMANCIPATION. Mr. SPRING RlCBtpesented two petitions in favour of Ca tholic Emancipation. The Hon. Member said that one of the petitions was signed by three Protestant clergymen. (Hear. hear.) The petitioners declared that nothing could effectually serve Ireland unless Emancipation weas.granted. They also begged to represent to the house the great service rendered to Ireland by the Catholic Association. The Hon. Member wished, in common with the pe ti Li onert. to bear testimony to the growing feeling of the Protest ants of Ireland in favour of Emancipation. (Hear, hear.) One of the petitions was from the town and county of Galway. The peti tioners stated that they represented the feelings of thirty thousand Catholics of the county of Galway. The other petition we under stood to'be from Gort.—erdered to be printed. Mr. GRATTAN patented similar petitions from Mullitipr and New Ross.--Ordered to be printed. ASSESSED TAXES. Mr. CURTEIS presented a petition from Brighton, praying far the repeal of the Assessed Taxes. Mr. LINDSAY presented a similar petition from Perth. The petition also prayed for a reduction of the Fire Insurance Duties.— , the petitions were ordered to be printed. COUN_TY COURTS BILL. General GASCOYNN . presented a petition from John %%11- ' Lams, of Liverpool. in favour of the County Courts Bill. Sir O. ROBINSON presented a similar petition arum iVellen borough.—The petitions were ordered to be printed. STANDING ORDERS. Mr. S. WORTLEY moved the following ReMlution :—" That the House do not receive any petition on a private Bill, referring solely to the compliance or non.compliance with the Standing Or ders after said Bill shall have been read a first time." Mr. CURWEN seconded the Resolution. _ . Mr. SYKES mentioned a case that occurred that day, which he thought made the Resolution neeesaary. Mr. W. PEEL invited any Hon. Member who doubted the in convenience of the present system, to attend the Manchester and Liverpool Railway Committer then sitting Lord MILTON atmegltopposed the Resolution. If it agreed ; to the promotarg any privatl7lBl, they would merely have to burry on the first reading as fast as was consistent with the Orders of the House, and then all complaint would be put an end to. Mr. S. WORTLEY mid a few words in explanation. We un derstood the Hon. Member to say that any objections may be con sidered in the _general Committee on the Lord MILTON resumed. Who were the persons that went before the Standing Order Committee? Solely the promoters of the Bill ; and yet, on the showing of these persona, the Committee reported that the Standing Orders had been complied with. The Noble Lord concluded by declaring his opposition to the Resolu tion, from a conviction that too early a limit would be placed by it to the time for petitioning. Mr. W. DUNDAS was opposed to the Resolution. The Hon.' ' Member, in answer to the explanation of the lion. Mover of the Resolution, said, that no question of the Stinding Orders could be brought before the Committer on the Bill. Mr. CALCRA FT was strongly opposed to the Resolution. If the House should agree to it, its effect would be to make the Com mittee decide on the e.r-parts statements of the persons interested is carrying the Bill through. The lion. Member made some further observations in support of his view of the subject. Mr. LITTLKFON was in favour of the Resolution. If time were given after the first reading, lie was of opinion that it would be employed perhaps in getting astute lawyers to find frivolous and vexatious objections to the Bill. After a few words from Mr. CROKER, the Resolution was put from the Chair, and agreed tly BUTTER TRADE Or IRELAND. _ _ . Sir H. PARlNThLEg;vl7notleTe (a; 11euncrtriMed) of a motion for to-morrow with refpect to the butter trade of Ireland. SMALL DEBTS ACT. _ . . . On the motion of Lord A. HAMILTON, the Bill to regulate the Recovery of Small Dabs in Scotland was read a second time. and ordered to Le printed. NVEIGHTS AND MEASURES. _ _ The Bill to iegTilatel44iiilitsanclleasures;u read a third time, And passed. GAME. LAWS. Mr. S. WORTLEY moved the second reading of the Game Laws Bill. The Hun. Member, after some prefatory remarks, said that he was convinced some radical change must take place in the present system; there had been sufficient time allowed to con sider the proposed measure, which was intended to remove some of the most odious of the present laws. He begged the House to dismiss from their mods their old prejudices, and tyke proper steps to remove these laws; -which for the ',enjoyment of a few, pressed with great weight on the rest of the country. He requested die House, it they agreed in the principle of the proposed measure, not to object, at the present stage, to the clauses of the Bill, as an opportunity for that purpose would be afforded at another time. The Hon. Member proceeded to say, that the first and greatest evil springing from the laws as they then stood, was the increase of poachers. (Hear, hear.) To them it was owing that the gaols were crowded to excuse. A Mew peculiarity attended the practice of poaching, in the eye of the law ; it was looked on as highly criminal, whilst it was considered no violation of the moral law, and that feeling was p l eV a ss generated by the severity of the laws. Twas rue it that only Poachers were punished, and yet he was sure that every Gentleman in the kingdom, at one time or another, con travened them; the ides was now given up that the purchase of game q As not C 04101410 ja jou mist loss; 504 admit was the effect of those laws, thus rendered nugatory ? Need he ask any person acquainted with the dreadful scenes of every day's occur rence ? if asked why patching has become so prevalent, he would answer, that it arose from a change in the system of sporting;— their ancestors were content when they had game enough to give them amusement, but gentlemen now-a-dos wallet satiafied unless they heard their guns go of pop pop every modient (a laugh). In former days gentlemen went down to their country seats to enjoy a proper share of sporting, and to indulge in all the hospitality of the unies; but modem sportsmen must at least kill 100 pheasants each every day they go out. The tete t of the proposed law would be not to diminish the quantity organic, though if it were he uw no reason against the Bill, unless lit could be persuaded that for'' the purpose of possessing it laws,were to be continued and scenes occurring at which mankind revolted. (hear, hear.) The object of the Bill, in the first plat* was to open the market for game, and to take the monopoly out of the hands of the poacher. An. other part of the Bill would apply to the qualifications. The only qualifications at present were hereditary or freehold property of IOUL, era lesulold property of 13111.** year. It was also neces sary to take out a game certffibte: that was in itself no qualifica tion; it was merely a certain tax imposed by Government on thane otherwise qualified. How, then, were those who had no qualifica tion to kill game? Why by a glorious contrivance, namely, by a right derived front their progenitors; and there was even a large portion whose eldest eons only could shoot. Thus, these wise sages of antiquity not only reserved to themselves the privilege of shooting, but likewise the great advantage of begetting shooters. (A laugh.) The Honourable Gentleman proceeded to say, that if a spy were to go round the country, Inc would find more than one half of the persona in the habit of killing game, liable to be fuied. There was no younger son that may not be fined ; and even his own, he was convinced, subjected himself to a penalty frequently in the course of the year. But it so happened, that if the father dies the tons lose the right ; be they ever so much in love with it, the moment the father dies they must cease to shoot. Another anomaly in the existing law was, that it did not admit gentlemen of Ireland or Scotland to kill game in England, no matter how large may he their property. He might ask them to his house—he might take them throuith his preserves—he might show thorn his game, and yet if they tired a single shot they became liable to a p enalty. (Hear, hewn) It was idle to suppose that the people of Eng land , in their present state. could remain satis fi ed with these aws; they might, indeed, if there were but two classes in the country—if there were no inter mediate rank betweeu the aristocracy and the peasant. But as society was then constituted, such a monopoly could not he per mitted longer to exist. A principal objection to the alteration in the law was, that it destroyed the rights of the Lord of the Manor. If the Lord of the Manor had any right, that right remained ; but he denied that he ever had that right (hear, hear), except over a common, and.even that he was not supposed to have until the 2fal and 23d of Cheiles 11. gave him the power of appointing a game. keeper. How many Lords of 3lanun had no ground at all within Mien manor; the only advantage they enjoyed was the appointment of a game-keeper; and suppose a man, as the law now stood, going on the Lord of the Manor's suriund to shoot, is followed by the keeper,•and he refuses, after being followed for the entire day, to give his name ; o r if the n a me be given, and an action brought for the trespass, and that the Lord of the Manor gets a verdict. he still has three or four times snore to pay than the trespasser. The Hots Gentleman went on to say, that he proposed to make such alterations in the present hes as to leave out all the rubbish—all those odious enactments that were constantly creating ill-blood in the country—laws that were not the means of preserving game, for that could be effeeied sufficiently without them. Wu it not a serious grievance, that an individual should have his preserves stocked with game, that they should feed on his neighbours, and yet that la is n eigh Liours, who supported them, dare r.ot uicddle with them? The evil thus far weighed heavily on the small proprietors, and it was not strange they should feel (to say the least of ir) not hostile to the te.lier ; it was not strange that one of the fruits of the system should bealeagne between then and the poacher, and that they should feel a little pleasure at seeing the great proprietor tricked by the poachers. The lion. Member, after some further observations, said, that the objection to Game's being property were then so thread-bare that he did not expect to hear them urged any further. It was asked by some what species' of property was that which was here to-day and off to-morrow ; his answer was—fish. it was allowed by all, was property, and yet fish was just as vagrant as game. Well, then, say they, if it be ptoperty, how protect it up less yen make it triony to steal? But there was nu inconsistency in making game property, and yet taking the stealing of it out ef felony. The House had many instances of similar proceedings; for instance, Pillielos were private property, and the stealing of them was not fele- Pious. ft had been said that France was an instance of the impropriety of permitting this general privilege to destroy game. LT ndouldedly, as tar as he had seen, there was not so much pone in France as in England—but why ? Why, because they were not able to make such sacrifices to preserve it. The gentry and landholders would not spend such enormous sums in those extensive preserves, which formed at once the boast and the bane of England. (Hear. hear.) Lest of all, it had been said, that the pinking of game property would increase the number of shooters. Did Honourable Gentle men recollect that there must be a game certificate—that there must be leave to shoot—that they must procure the leave of the, servaut or tenants before they could enter upon the ground for the purpose of sporting. At present many, no doubt, take leave au commit that trespass ; but it would be otherwise if the Audi proprietors had an interest in the protection of their pro perty—if they could indict for a trespass, in case of any attempt to invade it; and although he would not rest his arguments for this measure upon such a ground, as whethir there would be a few more shooters. or a few less, yet he would venture to give it as his opinion, that there would be no increase of the number of sports. men. There was one other argument, the most powerful of all, with a certain class, he meant ins tendency of this unlimited right of sporting to destroy those fox-coven, which it was so mach their interest to preserve. He hail a greet respect for the admirers of that sport, but he begged to deny their position ; foxes, they would tied, would be as plentiful as ever. He had now gone over all the objections he had ever heard of, but be was still !menu conviction, if any thing could be advanced from the other side in addition to what he had already heard. No one could deny that the sale of game was now prevaletit, in spite of all the Acts and penalties they had issued forth in prohibition of it. The mono., therefore, they put an end to all the frauds, perjuries, and crimes produced by the evasion of the law the better. Let them make that legal, which they all knew was hourly done, although it was illegal, and this happy object would be affected at once. They had been told they would encourage poachers ; they would du the very revenue—they would raise such a powerful competition against the poacher, that it woudl be the height of madness in him to comintieruneing such risks of detection and punishment, for the paltry gains of Ins dangerous trade. No decrease of the quantity of game would arise either, from the practice of selling it. lie confessed it would be a long time before he could get over the feeling of selling game himself. Ile thought Gentlemen would be averse to the practice, and that persons would be looked down upon who pursued it. It had been said by sonic that there would be an end of all sport—of all plea sure; that a pheasant would be looked upon as no more than a barn-door fowl. Had they no sort of pleasure in killing woodcocks or wild-fowl ? Had they no pleasure in fishing. and in various other sports he could enumerate. It was really nonsense to say that no pleasure could be had without killing two or three hundred brace of pheasants or partridges in a dar's shooting. He had now, he thought, gone through all the objections he had ever heard of, but he would be happy to hear (he repeated) any arguments for the continuance of the eresent state of things. He had proposed a great change of the ann er entord of ' things, warring with many prejudices, against the feeling of a great portion of the Horse, and contrary to the opinions of & Urge number of the gentlemen of the country. The clause, with regard to the license he had made, hen/multi, here observe was only tem porary ; but he trusted, if he should be fortunate enough to sue. teed in prevailing upon the House to accede to his motion, that a very few years would point out to them the necessity and propriety of making it perpetual. The situation of endeavouring to prevail upon that House in this instance was by no means enviable. He had a great responsibility from various quarters. He had quite enough to do in attending to the interests of his own consti tuents. He hail suffered • great loss of time. He bad en dured more trouble than probably the House was aware of. But he had undergone all with satisfaction, from his firm and con. scienrious opinion of the justice, policy, and humanity, of the alteration he proposed. He had only to say, that there was scarcely any measure more deserving the attention of his Right lion. Friend the Secretary of the Home Department—scarcely any calling more strongly for the interference of the Government. If they would take it out of his hands, and if belied the misfortune to fail in his object to-night, lie trusted they would. He hoped they would at all events legalise the sale of game, and try the effect of that change upon this vice of poaching, which all united in de vploring. He begged, however, in conclusion, to observe, that it was with great pain he would give up the hope of accomplishing all the objects of the present Bill. Sir J. BRYDOES would negative any proposal to go into a Committee upon this discussion. The measure, both in principle and detail, had been fully gone into last Session, and rejected by a deliberate vote of the House. Ile did not mean to enter again into the discussion of this question, after having so fully ex plained his sentiments last cession; but he must take leave to observe, that the idea of preventing poaching by legalising the sale of game was a fallacious one. It was well known that in particular places some shops were notorious for the sale of all kinds of smuggled goods, such as tea, coffee, tobacco, silk, &c. ; and it was equally well known that those who wished for such articles knew the particular places where they would be likely to obtain them. The shops thus affording both a facility to dispose of smuggled pods and an encouragement to the practice. So it would be with poaching t those who wished for illegal game would go to some well-known place to seek for it. 'l'he dealers in illegal game would always be enabled to undersell the fair trader, :end poaching would be as much encouraged as ever. The clause too, proposing to make night poachers subject to felony, and transportation, atter the third offence, he objected to, because It added another offence to our Penal Code, already containing such an alarming catalogue of punishments. As the question had been already fully discussed, and as he was not prepared to stultify his vote of last Session, lie would, without any other observation, move, as an amendment, that the sal be read a second tiuse this day six months. Mr. lA)CKHART seconded the Amendment. He objected to the Bill as much for its inefficacy in the prevention of poaching, as for its principles of policy and convenience. It was a great niis. take to suppose it would in the least prevent the destruction of game. The sane argument by which this measure was supported would tell equally well against the preservation of every description of field property. They are so much exposed, we will be told, that really they cannot be efficiently protected ; better get rid of' them altogether , than be compelled to inflict so many punish ments fee their reservatimirehey were to extremely exposed, that it could not be guarded against. It was precisely the same argu. mein. The advocates of the Bill professed to seek for a principle of melioration. The Bill itself had no principle. Ile objected not only lo the clauses, but to the main principle. Its abstract principle was " Universalibus fallscia." • The right of property it proposed to convey was impolitic and unjust: it proposed to give to the man possessed of two or three acres--pertisps of an orchard or a garden—the same right which belonged to a man possessed of five or 6,00 W. It gave the small holder absolutely nothing, although it took away front the great one a right very valuable to him. It was in truth a new and fertile source of quarrel between landlord and tenant. It 'gave, not alone to the holder of arable land, where game might perchance be found, a right to destroy all game upon his holding, but to the peasant with half an acre of ground, small garden, or an orchard, a pinta joie right to kill and sell all the pheasants or partridges which may chance to approach his pre ' mists. And when it does this with the poachers and the depreda. ton, how do they treat those who sport without a license ? Why, they permit a Justice of Peace to grant a warrant for entering mid searching the houses of those who have a right, but may have ne glected to provide an authority, while they rum the house of the pretligate poacher—of the bad and wicked members of eocit tv— into a receptacle of thieves and felons, tree from the invasion of a much, and cleating ten times more crime than it professed to re medy. One word he would add as to qualifications: if the present qualifications were not found sufficient, he had no objection—he would even desire to extend it. If the memb ers of the fibers! pro. fessions complained of exclusion, admit them—admit lawyer', merchants, payers of a certain amount of Assessed Taxes, if they liked; but let them not consent to a principle which would lead to the benefit of nobody, and would prove detrimental to all. On the clause taking away the indictment for felony in the case of tak ing up game upon the lands of another, he would begladto know at what precise period the property in the game commenced or ended ? Vi as it when it was tint wounded, in the lands of one ? or when it passed fluttering over the grounds of another ? when it fell in the Held of a third ? or when it was carried in the mouth of a dog to the possessions of a fourth ? At what precise period, then, did the right of property end or corninetim 7 %Vas it on the ground, or in the sir, or when would they determine it ? Such was the ex. teme difficulty in which they would involve themselves by an `!~ Pre abstract principle—hy legislating where they did net salt their way. If they could extend the means to dispose of game legally, he, for one, did not object ; but they must draw a line, arbitrary he con. reseed it, bat they must draw it, and beyond that he would not go if they did, it was his opinion they would create more mischief the& they proposed to obviate. Mr. PEEL—Although lie had before espressed his opinions at some length upon this subject ; yet, lest there should be any doubt as to his sentiments, awl as be had been appealed to by his Hon. Friend the Mendez for Yorkshire, he would trouble the House with a few observations. Ile had &strung suspicion that the anti quity of the laws upon the subject of game. and the practice pre vailing under them, would. if they took into their consideration the changes of property since their enactment, form one of the strangest arguments for the present proposed alteration. The notions, wi t h i regard to game, had undergone a total change n the last 40 years ; now every plantation was convened into a preserve, and no gentle man fancied his enjoyment complete unless he could boast of hay. log killed owe hundred head or game; he himself had been of one party where, in three drys, they shot one thousand pheasants, and yet, for all this glut of game, the Legielatute had denied any legal vent. This immense accumulation of game, too, in comparison with formet days, had made a change in the taste of the age. Game had become fashionable : no table was considered complete in its arrangement without it : the rich and the luxurious will have it—and they leave it, (bear, hear,) and no law they could enact would prevent the Three per Cent. Consuls from eating pheasants if i: pleated them. (A laugh, and ales of hear, hear.) They had it in evidence before them, and it was now high time, therefore, to legalise a practice which they saw prevailed everywhere, in de fiance of their prohibition. He did not see any ground for pose. poning the discussion from the statemest of his lion. Friend ; the :Member for Yorkshire (Mr. Stuart t's'ordey). It was possible to give every individual the right to kill and sell game, without at all affecting the question of property. They were questions quite dif ferent ; and supposing they were limited to the fliers right to kill and sell, he thought no difficulties could arise upon the question of property. It had been said that this freedom would he converted by the poor man into a means o f annoy i ng his richer neighbour. He denied that. Was it just, he would ask, that a rich nun should be allowed to destroy thirltrafeersy of a neighbouring far mer, to kill, without recompence, thatatue which his grotutt‘ had fed ? (Hear.) Their rights email fps be equalised, as had been esid, but they would be placid epon a more equal footing; they would come to a just comprondee e the poor man would KO that this right, which was of no value to hint, would be west &tea of great consequence by his rich neighbour; and he would feel that five pounds a-year perhaps, paid towards cultivating his farm, would be of infinitely greater consequence to him than the liberty of destroying a few heads of game. (Cries of Hear, hear, hear.) Self interest would in this, as in every other case, hare its due share of influence ; and he felt confident that if this Act passed, in three or four years all parties would be settled down into content with its provisions, and theft would be no more dissatisfaction than what they heard expressed in every interference with the ancient order of things. He would ask, indeed, how. they could give any class new rights, with ofit creating some discontents: But they did not give new tights 17110lly to the poor class—the r i c h man would bays new rights as well as his poorer neighbors. Let the House now Wok at the method of preserving game by au armed force; let them look at a great landholder appetising six or eight keepers, with the power of calling upon 'veiny or ditry aeeistatts, seined too, and autho shad to use these arms in sell-defence, and say if a system, thus eakulated to engender ill-blood and bitter local hatred, should con tinue. (Heer.) Or let them look at the substitute fur this array of feete..stbe still more objectionable method of preserving inclosures iweaus of spring-guns film), and say if that is a sate tenure—a eatidaesciey possession of property. (Hear, hear.) Let them say if such a state of things does riot call for animmediate change, and warrant the desire expressed for the second reading of this Bill. (Hear.) His lion. Friend had said he would consent to alter the qualification. although lie would not agree to make game a pro. petty. II is Hon. Friend would find that alteration presented more difficulties than be was at present aware of The House would perhaps shortly believe that a gentleman of 30 or 40.00ei. a year cannot at present qualify his younger sons to kill game, to that perhaps the very prisms for whom he was meet anxious to presefve his game, for whose amusement lie was most solicitous, can only enjoy the pleasu re o f spurt i ng b y one evas i on of the law, whilelhe father, who sees this take place in his own domain, is. probably . called upon as a Justice of the Peace. to esecute the utmost rigours of the law against some hapless offender, guilty only of that offence which his own sans are at that moment coo. witting with impunity. (Cries of Hear, hear, hear.) A law of this kind his Honourable Friend would find it difficult to alter satisfactorily. Suppose all the liberal professions were entitled to take out a certificate to kill game, he must enable them to kill upon their own ground, and that could not be done with out making an alteration in the right of property. He knew the difference between proposing to adhere ti an old esta blished system of jurisprudence and introducing a new one: he knew the difficulties. the prejudices, to be surmounted, but he could assure them this was not altogether a new conception--it had existed in 'Scotland for a very long time; there every individual possessing small grants of land can kill game, if duly licensed ; and every individual possessing thirty of , forty acres of ground can qualify as many persons as he pleases twekill game upon that pro. party; end yet he had never heard that there was any very great scarcity of game in `upland. He freely owned that this Bill would not, in his opinion, do all his Honourable Friend the Member for Yorkshire anticipated. He (Mr. Peel) was not so sanguine es to think it would put an end to poaching. (Hear, hear, The poacher had two motives for p ursu i ng that dangerous trade—the love of gain and the love of sport. If they interfered with the first motive, by a Bill which enabled the gentleman tut compete with the poacher in the market, more than half of his temptation would bo taken away ; prohibit, as they had done, the sale of game, and the poacher must have the whole supply of tlte market. Would it not be so with pine -apples or any other luxury which people were in the baba of requiring to gratify the palates of the luxurious ?—say that they are not to be sold, they would enhance the price, but they might depend upon it that they would be had. They would only give an encouragement to the vendor of fruit uniting with a dishonest servant to defraud them. (Hear.) All wants of luxury or necessity prohibited by le gal interference, would infallibly be Supplied to the extent of the demand from illegal traffic. (fleas) His Honourable Friend had insinuated that Gentlemen would be unwilling to sell game. He knew not what difference there was between a hare and a rub. bit, and yet no Honourable Gentleman he had ever heard of felt any reluctance to pocket the shilling for a rabbit caught upon his estate ; he confessed he never had, arid he did not understand why any gentleman should be ashamed to receive the price of a hare who would not feel equal disinclination to take the price of a rabbit. this Bill was in operation, therefore, for a couple of years, he felt confident that poaching would decrease, because the profits of the poacher would be diminished; but without that competition they could not hope to put any termination to a * trade which, though illegal and dangerous, was product;ve so much profit to those who hasarded its chances. (Hear, hear.) When he was told that this title to kill game would destroy all the pheasants and partridges in the country, lie could not help calling the attention of gentlemen to a fact well known to all who indulged in field sports. If there was any bird die peculiar object of me sportsman's pursuit—it was the woodcock ; indeed, he had known a whole field of ten or a cloven gentlemen abandon every other speenes of sport, and one and all join in the chase of one wood. cock; and yet thin bird, the object of such intense interest and anxiety in the field, was to be purchased any day in Leadenball. market at a very moderate price, (Hear, hear.) ('an it after this be said that the legalising the sale of game, or extending the power to kill it, will here any effect upon its quantity ? (treat.) Rabbits too are saleable every where, pursued with the same avi dity, and killed without qualification or restraint, yet no one ever hears of any decrease in the supply. His Hon Friend had ad verted to the support he had given this measure. At the time be (Mr. Peel) first came into office, an Honourable Member, now a Noble Lord (Lord Suffield) had brought this quer*_ Lion under the consideration of the House. That Noble Lord bad obtained the appointment of a C,ommittet ; upon that Com. mince he had attended day after day, and when that Noble Person hod been called to the other House, and placed this question in the hands of his Honourable Friend, lie believed he had been found upon all occasions slighting every other duty which his situation demanded, fighting side by side upon this question with its able sod persevering advocate. (Hear.) lie well knew how to value the great qualities that eminent person Iliad brought to the discus. slots of that question ; he gave him credit to the full extent fur ;allohe swerltutes of tioutand caturaisicou is. had eabnittted to in advancing it—sacrifices of time he believed not • little increased, though his Honourable Friend had omitted to mention it, by the pews of correspondence wlnch had been forced upon him by the pyumincnt pan he had taken in the introduction of the question. Whether this Bill be successful or not, he was convinced that game must be put on some intelligible principle; they must ulti- Mat ly throw around it the sanction of property; and if they failed to-night, he. would certainly endeavour to secure, for three years, the right of selling it. He would ask this fur the sake of the public. He would give his most earnest support to every part of this Bill; but as it wee a desirable thing to extract as much good as they could from every oat - titmice, he would, it' it failed, prefer such a modification to no alteration whatever. If he could he would go further; but he would at all events do what he could to prevent the main principle of the Bill from being lost to the country. (Ilear,h ear.) 3lr. DOUGLAS opposed the Bill, upon the ground of its teed ing to destroy fox-carers, and appealed to the Member for West. muster (Sir F. Burden), and the :Wernher for Wareham (Mr. ('al. craft) if they did notemertain the same apprehension ? He thought if the House persisted in . passing the Bill, th e y should purchase the expensive hutitieg establishments which would be lost to the pro prtetors. :The effeet of this Bill would be to cause a dearth of game. particularly of foxes ; and in that event Gettlenien would be obliged either to go to the Continent, or seek the ruin of their fortunes in that grave of property—the top of St. James's. (A laugh, and hear, hear.) Sir JOSEPH YORKE wished to state a fact relat;ve to the argument, that in the event el a change in the Game Laws, the demand would exact the supply. Su far from there being any ground of apprehension from thst being the case, two pouL terers gave evidence befuee the Committee. that they could easily servs up tau dishes of game to the table of every Slembst of parliament; sod that NO far did the supply exceed the demand. that several thousend partridges and ether buds were annually *mien away and rendered useless, from the insufficiency of the „Journal Mr. )V3l. PEEL opposed the Bill. It was calculated to create Bloch evil, and do no guod. lie further opposed it on the ground of its intones ence with the s pon s or dee country gentlemen. S;tie .Y. SEBRIGHT supported the Hill. The principal ground of las opposition to the present system of litune Laws was, that ~"