The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1820-05-06 00:00:00

i , 1 v IA ' f _ i snediately In The utmost; otherwise,.in gaiuinß a vinAlt advsisitage, a gr.nt deal of trouble and mis chief arta likely to ensue. The utmost discretion was ttestemary in removing or taking' sway any thing tit long evtahli.hmeut, even though the holder spight ins supposed fo have legally a very poor title, sad ibonels he knew he differed in what he wee going to utter from several lion. Friends, he con ceded to the fullest manner the necessity of making itle Crewo an adequate compensation for such re -venues as the Parliament might think it deeirah!e. 1,. t,lre under its own control. fie woui.l pro ! s-id by the analog or the Cies'', and a great ' or inastion, eiig.ged in a insular trensaciion, to sues, in what manner •onch a measure could t-e carried into effect. The tithes weir of old mint granted simply for the maintenance of the raergy, bat the expenses of building aml repair ing clinrches were chargeable on them also.— The maintenance of the poor was another charge ou them, acid one-fourth of the whole tithe was appro priated by law to that purpose. By degrees this • fond became insufficient for the purpose, and espe cially after the 'weeping sway of so much church property uuder Henry the Eighth, there was so little left that it was deemed unjust to enforce the pay. • meta of the lesser tithe from that which remained. ' Here was the analogy clearly established between the Church and the Crown. Step by step the clergy had been relieved from the charge of sitaintsining the poor, until in the reigh of Queen Elisabeth an other arrangement took piece, which removed the weight from the church revenues altogether. To follow up the analogy in practice, the House ought to take possession of the hereditary revenues with the consent of the Crown, and give the Crown such compensation as on the one hand should be consider ed fair and reasonable, and on the other should be found to agree with the already existing burdens of the people. To what amount such compensation should be paid, or in what manner, he would not then tray. All he was then anxious to enforce was the necessity of a new arrangement. Every one who had considered the former Civil List must be ready to own that nothing could be contrived more bewil , tiering and mysterious than the manner or keeping those accounts. Suppose any one not versed in the minutia. of its details, any one who had not been a Member of that House (for he could know no. thing about it who had not sat in Pediment), were leaked how much of the sums in that List the King had for his own personal use? he would find no small difficulty in giving an answer. Many Mem bers of that House who had passsed long lives in the habit of examining such accounts could tell ; every one could tell how much the King of France receiv ed, how much was paid to the President of the Aon e• rican Stutes, or to the Stadtholder of I follsnd ; but as to the English Monarch, how much of his in come was spent in supporting the outward dignity of his Crown, and hurt much was left to his own in dividaal eujoy went, no one could tell. The conse quence was, great plunder, great abuse mid perver sion, fatal to the dignity, and injurious to the ho nour of the Crown. He would give an instance of the evil effects of this plait. Witco Paine wrote his book, he introduced with great coarseness, but certainly with great strength, some 513..11 intimation as the fol. lowing ;--11 The King of England is the most ex pessiee officer in the known world. • He receives yearly 900,000/. for performing the ditties of a very pleasant office." Toe writer had added, 0 I'll en. gage I would get thousands of able-bodied men who would be glad to undertake the office for 500/. .-year." These expressions were doubtless very brutal; but that which gave them their fullest force was, the incapability of any one contradicting them; no one had the means of refuting them. Imagine a dialogue between Paine and ally other too upon this subject ; suppose the other party to be even a Chancellor of the Exchequer, though certainly that made the dialogue more improbable, he was not sure that the present Chancellor of the Exchequer could answer such an imputation. Sup -pose the Chancellor, however, to deny the a ion, the other would appeal to the title of the Act, which iv, " An Act for the better support of his Majesty's household, and for maintaining the ho nour and dignity of the Crown." %Vhat an. ewer could be given to the scandal then ? Noose. The deitinctios between the personal expenses of lilt Sovereign and those which were applied to •• the better supporting of his household, and supporting the dignity of his crown," could never be effectu ally explained. He asked, their, on behalf of the Crown—to the dignity of which lie professed him self to be one of the truest hiends—he asked tor the character of the Government, and ii vindica tion of its principles, was it just or proper that this delusion should be longer continued ? %Vas it lair Mad true, or foul and false iu its character and effect, to mix up the little which he contended the reel share of that expense to be, which was applied to the uses of the Monarch, with the salaries of his Ministers, Judges, Ambassadors, and various other Officers, nay, even to blend his kingly name and condition with little incidental expenses, such as ;date cud presents, pensions and allowances to little officers and big officers, and all the incongruous variety of items its time list, with which, io fro, he had nothing to do ? But then lie should be told of the old and necesary mystery of keeping the ac counts of the Civil List. He would reply, would not a man be anxious at all times to keep his accounts, if they comprised • great variety of business, as separate and clear as possible ? Would not • gen tleman like to have his accounts so kept that he could see at once what he paid fur wages of labour, and what he received as profit from his lands— where it was that he rained on one hand, mid lie lost on the other, aid how much uggregate profit we left Jinn upon the whole? The advice of the It!glit Honourable Gentle man opposite was ex oily contrary to this. His .vecommendation was to keep the recountit nay,- "aloud, involved—to jumble them all together ; because theta was things, of a diminution of the vices and expresser necessity to the due sup pert of the dignity of this Crown if once they were clearly displayed to the Parliament and the cemetery, therefore it was heldiSest to coutinue the present bungling gothic mode keepnig those accounts. But what gnat dignity meld there be in continuing s aurae erfrsitiel of misrepresentation, or what tassel dignity could accrue from abandoning it, sad limply giving Abe Ctesse a chin fir tits amongst • eleasseary fur arllierelwil disesti,d eetebleslassealt seiplighs Cousiiidel4ll/00/ But the Right Hun. g—as egg *4114 perhaps, that there swreurrrier PI: , s 1 •••••••••••••410•11/..- was iundelping sublime and mysterious in the for- titer plan which" weighed match with the vulgar miud. No such •thing ; there was no longer any ignorance among the people which could he so practised on. He adverted to the confused manner of keeping those accounts. The allowances to the younger branches of the Royal Family were di- vided, some of them being charged on the Civil List mill lone on the Consolidated Fund ; sonic were "Kant titsidrd, alt it were, into two, and received part of their allowance from each of those funds. But this was nut all; the House would be astonished to find *bat company hi. (*lkey was lowed to keep in this loot; no German Baron or petty potentute ever held such promiscuous compataion ship. Among the allowances of the 7th class would be found that of the Vicar of the Tower.—( laugh.)—That great State officer (tie could not help I wi,liii,g that the other offices of State could be managed as cheaply) received for his services in watching the welfare of Ins country, 1/. 134. 4.1. (Langkier) —llis was an office of considerable dignity ; he was ranked in the seventh class, and yet lie cost his adlicted country no more than I!. 13s. 41—( Lattglater.l—The , e was another cheap allowance to the Vicar of St. Botolph ; there were others to churchwardans sod to school masters. The ark held not such a variety as might be found in this list. There was no corporation of which it did not contain • specimen ; numerous in some instutaces ; in other., one. as if for the sake of seeming variety. There were allowances to Mayors ; a grant to the town of Lynn Regis, for the repair of a pier ; then there were allowances for celestial objects as well terrestrial ; instance that of the Asurinsomer Royal. Descending from these lofty subjects, they Caine to those of field sports, the Master of the Hawks. From sports of the field, the transition was ea.y to those of the dance, there was an allowauce to the Msster of the Cere monies. Next came the Keeper of the lions in the Tower: then the Exchequer ‘Vatclimen. He could not say if the Right Hun. Gentleman oppo site was one of them. These great officers received, for guarding and preserving the public treasure, 1 081. %Vita, share of the service the Right Hun. Gentle ' main or any of his friends took in this important office to entitle them to their aliquot parts of this 1081. he could not say, but he felt sure that their vigilauce would avail but little as long as the Civil List cositiuued to be, as at present, an inextricable man of absurd inysteries.—He would next call the attention of the House to the alteration which lie had to propose. Whatever was necessaty to the support of the state of the Monarch should be at once fairly and openly voted ; and that not from year to year, but to continue so long as the Crown and the Parham - wet should be both satistiA with the agree ment. Why was there a Civil List at all ? Because the King surrendered his hereditary revenues. What ever was thus taken by Parlietnent should be atonce amply compensated. Let the House observe the consequences of neglecting so to do. In the long reign of George 111. there were no less than six new orrangements made with him as to the Civil List, besides !laying oft half a million of debts, arrears of the Civil List. An addition of 100,0001. was made in 1777, and yet it was only nine years before that the Parliament had paid off half • million of arrears. The obvious remedy for this would be to take the hereditary revenues as they were offer ed, to form one fund from them and other sources and give back • compensation not t tidy sufficient to make good the loss, but enough for the just splendour and dignity of the Sovereign. Let this allowance he separated from those of the Chancellor, Judges, Speaker of the House of Commons, &c. (perhaps no sum, next to that of the Monarch, was more cheerfully paid, or more deservedly acquired, than the last which her bad named.) If possible, he thought it would be most odvi.able to have the estimates first. Let the Act before them be read—let the grants of 32.0001. to one. and 22,000/. to another, be examined, with many similar, and it would be impossible for may one to believe that Parliament would have granted, in all the cagey, similar sums for similar services. Let the estimates be first produced, like the army or any other estimates—let them be discussed, subjected to questioning and deliberation, and if they went through this trial, little doubt would re main of the justice of granting them. It might, perhaps, be too delicate a subject to touch on to examine the expenses of the household of the Sove reign. Upon that subject he had no opinion to give. As to all the other charges, new that opportunity offered for doing so, they should be separated from those of the Monarch, and paid out sal the Coesolt slated Fund. Ile would next go into the considers. nun of the Droits of the Admiralty, a subject which had been frequently before the House, and with which Members must be familiarly acquainted. These Droits had all the bad qualities of • casual and arbitrary disposable fund. First, its proceeds were uncertain; large manes of money were often suddenly accumulated by it. There then war much mistake among Gentlemen who supposed that the I roils of the Admiralty were the only source by which these sums were accumulated. In 1817 there was a sum fell into the Crowns of 113,000/. is con sequence of the lunacy of a rich prison. In 1807 a person died without heirs, and left too will, by which 47,0001. fell to the possession of the Crown; by another, 62.0001.—1 t was a very bad quality, in any fund so dispcsable. to fell in so irregularly and casually ; it might, iii particular instanter, wholly endanger the constitution. A week before a gene ral election, for instatice, what might not be effected by the unexpected acquisition lay the Govern• talent of one million pounds? Then there were the immense accumulations from the Droits of the Admiralty. In 1804 they a 1111 l tinted, in one in stance, to 105,0001.; on another occasion to 10,0001.; in 1798 to 55,000/, ; on tone occasion in 1806 to 455,000/. ; on another to 165,0001. Then there were the Dutch prizes, amounting to 1,030,0001. ; and the Spanish prizes two minium and upwards. As a sample how these funds gathered in their amount, his late Majesty had come noun to the House in 1800, and made ".grant to the country, in coital &ninon of the heavy burdens which the war had occasioned to the people, of 1,000,0001. foe ihieh boon the House returned its must. dutiful 'and grateful thanks. He was very far frost Magnin the House for shelving its grittitude on so extraor dinary an occasion. Bet how would their ances tors hate been astonished had they witnessed this iustrsion of all foraser 'known anti acknowledged Habits of policy; Is see a Sovereign, WNW of ' having to come to his Parliament to seek assist ance in upholding the vaaits of his government, or defraying the expenses of his wan-in: teal of requiring their sequieicetice to gather hie fourth, his eighth, or, bia tenth of the substance, of that Parliament so enormous a sum in Foment of the rkigencier of the country ! Another part of -these funds was, though more permanent, scarcely lees ertiimesital. He alluded to the four cud a 11.411 per evil. from the Lee ward Islands, sod the Scotch revenue. From these funds were granted pension" to the amount of 30,0001.1601controlable by Perlirmeist, for goodser vices or fur bad services, as it might happen. By di viding the Droits of the Admiralty fur the lost five year., it would he seen that from a million to a million arid a lialf were disposable without the will of Parliament, and. as lie conceived, could be used in 110 way that would not tend to do mischief.-- While these funds were actively taken posses run of, and employed to create fresh influence, regular • one, were wit wanting to lilt and secure such as w a s • already acquired. %What liras the consequence ? If money was wanting to reward the liceiisni of Lord St. Vi netut, to do jose.ce to the heirs of Lord Nelmis, Ministers bad rio scruplri. is coming down with an epithet:non to Parliament ; they would neglect their duty to their country if they did not do so. But it was 110* thus that they contrived to remunerate those of their favuuriteil, who not ha t ing been engaged in fighting the betties of the country, yet possessed • species of merit which could not go owe warded. He did not mean any disparagement to the Gentlemen opposite who had ',envious; many of those of his own party possessed them like.. wise—Lord Grenville, for instance, and as lie had heard, Lady Grenville. Far was lie from thinking that the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite did not deserve his pension, or that Lord Grenville was not entitled. in the fullest degree to his.— (Hear, hear, from a member under the gallery.)— He had been waitiog for r pop to his feeble argument, and the Honourable Member had fur nished him with • most apt one. Had the pen sion in question been one to Earl St. Vincent, Earl flows. or any distinguished chieftain, the Ho nourable Gentleman would have felt uo doubts, but would, most likely, notwithetawdirig 111. gene ral reluctance so vote with Ministers-01 burgh have heartily seconded the motion. Au instance of • different kind °mimed to his mind—lie meant that of Sir Houle Popham. That gallant officer, eppieliensive of the enprosch of a lung peace, dreading the inactivity of such a period, impatient alike fur honour and busim ss, burning with the love of glory, and longing with feverish anxiety to sweep the surface of his favourik dement, " Old Ocean," embarked on a smuggling ad venture. lie treed not • insist on the variety of tastes which existed, some seeking honour in the field of battle, others seeking profit by smuggling. The gallant officer entered various investments out. wards in a ship called the trweeo, bound from one of the ports of Italy to the East Indies, Cap tain Robin ttttt who was also a naval officer, but the object of whose einteitiou, and the boeiness of hi. station, was the prevention of smuggling, seized the ship of this distiogoithed contrabandist, and brought him back. But instead of Cent. Robinson receiving soy reward for his services 20,000/. were paid to Sir Horne Popham, by way of solacing him for hiv loss. Ilut this was not all. There was some suspicion that the gallant officer had smuggled romething on his return.—( A lawgh.)—He was, no doubt, sincerely attached to his wife and family, and perhaps had brought them home a present or two. Having lari.ved the dangera of the sea, the enemy, and the King's proctor, lie left the Etrasco, and went ashore in a boat, to solace him self with the endearments of his domestic circle, rendered, no doubt, additionally happy by the pre sents which lie had to I'lE2 to them. The gallant officer was afterwards *Aced if he had not taken away a boat ? His reply was, "to be sure" he had, said he wished that lie had had twenty more at his service to 'pie iii the same way.—( Lasighter.) —lndeed it was remarked that the boat, as if not contented with the honour of conveying the gallant officer to his family, kept running to and fro be. tween the ship and the shore during the whole eight afterwards.— (Much laughter.i— But this was not all. The ship belonged to Al . Cliarriett, of Ostend, ainl, worse and worse, Memo. Charnett. those celebrated smugglers, broke, and in Hon. Friend of his, who held some amount on their bilk Dever got his money. Now, whe ther it was right or wrong to reward Sir Home Popham, the reward was a secret end not all open reward, hut paid out of the Droits, and not by a grant of Parliament. If these funds were suspi cious in their accumulation, and of probable den ier in their applicatioe, they were teu times more objectionable to their origin. They were a tern tattoos to the Crowo and its Minister., which ought not to be left in their way. He would not say that may King, since the reign of Charles the First, would, fur the sake of a mil lion or' two, make sudden and mijustifiable war upon a weak neighbour ; but he had a right, it was the principle of the constitution to be jealous of the executive. This lure might riot have die acme effect on all minds; bat in any case it would make them go to war in an on-English manner; it gave an interest in lowering the honour of the British flag. Prize was to be made after the de claration of war—prize, which was formerly a droit of the Crown, was given up; but captures before declaration of war were not held to be prizes, but fell to the Admiralty Droits, and by consequence to the King's peon*. lie was now only talking of prizes made without proolenvation of war. On the fund. thus accumulated should be inscribed, " These funds are the purchase money of the honour and good faith mid usisul. lied fame of Esiglerid."—(Hear. hear, Aear.)— He had before alluded to the behaviour of King Charles in the Dutch war, in seizing the Smyrna Beet, fur which Providence "'miner: to have ever erlwlnied troth him and his Alimoters in confusion and disgrace. Then as to our owls times, what could be said of the Danish prizes? what of the Spanish prizes? the pour wretches on board them having had rio sense of any Wing, except that the property they were had made the m . th e prey of au onezpsoiniC essanty. ~ loin these isst were acquired 2.800.11N1A. He had never talked with au lissOolo dot ites that subject who did amt owl lioltsktuireptipped to hold up hi. head at . Alm " 61 001 , WOO. 4 4 1 . 11 11 .. emmick • - .a. • to sheer that evil had been committed. Would they not. then allow some alteration which should prevent the recurrence of this foul stain upon the national character, sod take away the power from conspiring rivals to continue such► a stigma T Let those funds be taken away from under their pe lican control and an adequate compensation be made ; there were authorities for it, as he had sliewn. He had before mentioned the Act of Henry VIII. to limit the revenue of the church ; then there was the lids of Charles 11. by wl►ich .• Wardship, Purveyance, Knight Service, and other remain* of feudal revenues," 'by which the Crown took Id. per h►rrel fur sole, stud !s. per Cal lon for whiskey. The preamble of that Act was peculiarly worded; it stated, that these revenue. having been found much more, burdensome to the public than profitable to the state, &c. Theo the Satr►te of Anne, by which first fruits and tithes l i were given up. Lastly, there was the property of old stores surrendered in 1805. Ile had omitted to mention that the 41 per cent. West India duty was not to be viewed in the same light as the Droits of the Crown. Dow, or in what progress Of abuse or laxity they clime to be vested in the Cro-su, he could not then say. They were grauted by the Psrliatinsit of Balbadoes for similar purpnara in 1663, and were to be applied to the build ing of public works and repairing the Courts. By degrees they were usurped by the Parliement ; they were then remitted to the mother country ; then they got into the liossorssiou of the Crown. By the Acts of Charles and James, mid 9 William 111. these duties were made to constitute ■ part of the land revenue, and were charged with 700,0001. as their proportion of the expense of the civil govern ment. They were not then considered droits ; they were given back on representation to the Perlis meat of Barbadoes; but on their way back they slipped into the Royal coffers, where they had be come permanently, since that period, droits of the Crown. The Hun. and Learned Gentleman con cluded a very earnest and eloquent speech by mov ing s Resolution— " That it is expedient, with a view to the arramreaseut of the Civil List, to take tutu eousideratiou the Devito of the Crows, the Drui►s of the Admiralty, the Hereditary Remmers, , ad other foods supposed to be out wider the control uf Par t liatneni." Mr. CANNING contended, in an eloquent speech, against what he deemed the intended innovation on the honour and dignity of the Crown ins removing the control of these funds. He thought it a float ungracious return fur the declaration of the Sove seign, that he wished no addition to the settlement of 1916, to require an examination into those ac counts, in order to see that as there was no defi ciency complained of, if less would hot do. In reply to the arguments of the Hon. Gentleman es to the difference of 'muslin's granted by Parliament and those by the Crown, the idea of the Hon. Gentleman was the one he himself should have used to prove how mach more beneficially and economically that fund would be managed under I the patronage of a King than of the Parliament. As he preferred the spirit of • limited monarchy to that of en open democracy, so he would rather see that fund disposed of by the Crown, than subjected to the captious and oftentimes factious generosity which might be evinced in the grants from it by Parliament. It was a curious character to give a fund, the first pensioner on which was Lord Chatham, and the last Burke, to call it a secret one. Surel: the most bungling ad risers of Government could nut have selected two such unfortunate names to connect with seemly. Mr. Burke was himself an economical reformer, and yet lie had consented to receive his pension from this fund. Would lie hare taken the money if he had not felt that he had good grounds for so doing ?—(Near. hear, hear.) — Could soy Gentleman hope then by a snare to di minish the weight of that great man's name and opiuions, or suppose that either could be affected by • taint? If so he envied not his feelings, he de sired not to possess .Ins mind or affections. But he (Mr. Burke) was as far out of the reach of envy now, as he was above emulation in his lute. He (Mr. Canning) had only mentioned this to chew that in accepting his pension, Mr. Burke had felt that his right could not be clogged at the bottom. Mr. Burke had himself stated, that when he prepared his reformation of the Pension List, he and his friends lied this fund in full view, but writ afraid to medill, with it, well knowing its character and uses. Fur billow(' port he would concede to the Hon. Member, that it would be as well in future to lay the accounts of that fund and its application be. fore Parliament as a 'natter of course, in the be ginning each Session. He next shelved that out of 9,700,000/. Drolls of the Admiralty, 5.379.0001. had been paid to captors ; of the remainder, e,000,000/. had been applied to the public bervices, 1,100,0001. in aid of the Civil ei —.v..Lis', 40,0)01. in aid of the 41 per cent. West India revenue ; the remainder, which had been spent among the Royal Family, and in the entertainment of foreign Princes, amounted altogether to 370,000/. every shilling of which was communicated to Parliament. He questioned the accuracy of the statemeots of the Hon. Member, as to the 41 per cent. die ties, sod he denied the danger of trusting the Go vernment with the control of the Admiralty Droits. The Right Hon. Gent. continued, that so far from the interest which the Crown had iu the Droits having operated as any temptation to war, that in more than there or four mustier. it had actually preserved us in peace; in partirttlar, he would re mind the Hun. and Learned Gentleman of the Case of this Swedish convoy, in the power of the Crown over the limits had enabled it to pre vent • war. It was the pride and privilege of se. semblies like that House, to look with a jealous rye on the national character, and on that subject to entertain notions of the moat high and roman: tie honour. Then he would contend that to avoid war it was necessary that it should remain under the cootrul of the Crown, uutil every claim, either of captors or others, had been odjudirated. It ought till then to remain out of the sight out, of the knowledge of the House...out of its of f icial know. ledge he meant; for were they to come down t that House and say, the Crown has seised • certai number of ships, what would follow ? Why, that whatever reasons 011)0(7 might exist to reuder it ex pedient sot to cootinue the war, the national honour would be committed, and they would be compelled to preserver let whatever motives would forbid. He was surprised to dud the Host. sod Learned Cholla. NM had stated us practical advantages or good grounds in general poiicy, for the alteration he proposed, nothing which could induce te e House (41 do mote than the Ministers were willi ng to do. They were desirous of submitting to p„. liament the account of every item of the they arose, from the first nucleus which was forii i .4 even to the last particle that security they w eft ready to give ; but as a right of the Crown mettle : and exerted as all rights ought to be far the nefit of the people, he must contend for Its p er . eervetion.—(//ear.)—The only temptation weeds had been held out to them.to depart from the e n,. blushed usage, and delay the Civil List, was tore out all traces of • feudal monarchy. and to the Sovereign to the simple state rit the l'reee:-., t of the United States. He was certainly desirous tad his prejudices should never stand in the way of s e y public good, yet he must eonfrss that he war our sh e did not wish to get rid of those traces Of the oltle e time which remained to na. He knew that sie!lnfig was more easy mid simple than having a stiireird .rry King, and there was but nee step Further to to-e. which he marvelled the Learned Gentlemen goal not proposed, and that was, that the Ministers and Officers of the King ehould lie me:mooed If trot chosen by that House. For lea p irt , h e d u i nut think that the monarchy would be inure usefu l by bring serarated from the dross of ages, oat would those Gentlemen who bad formed their opinions upon those of Patine, be • bit more fled if the Crown was stripped before them ef every jewel it posseseed.—(Hear, hear. j—lle did not think that it could be desirable to de.iroy those huts of circutnvallation, which were drain round the person of the Sovereign by the interrea bon of his Mistiaters, and through them, he timid:- ed God, the arms of traitors most break before they could touch the person of the Sovereign.— (Hear, hear.)—Any measure, therefore, e.hi t tended to separate the Sovereign from his legal advisers, would Ise deeply to be deerecsted. liar tionoureble and Learned Gentleman had amused himself and the House by exposing to their view certain incongruous items of the Civil List ; hut highly as lie admired that Learned Gruilema a'. talestur in all lite exertions of them, he most soy he was astonished at the few vivito/we he !...); propored to italuee them to adopt his ideas : deed he had himself, at the clove of his *pert. ,„ furnished a bufficirat refutation of his notion,, Ite . lie had told them that he had not made up hi, whether that insulated, that stipendpery hive, should or should not have the power to chose Lis wen household. If lie had hot made up his mind on this subject, his plan was still as open to ridicule as i!.c present arrangement : unites indeed his Sovereign was to put his household ow board wages, and duie himself at • chop-house—/Lovghteri—ntlierw:se, oh monstrous profusion ! he might be guilty of eat.- iug more dielies on the table than he could Itim , ell eat ; and though they might get rid of the worthy Vicar of the Tower, and the worthy liars at the Tower also—(Laughiseg)—yet he most still main tain accounts of grocei its, of butter and of bacon, of oranges end lemons ; he must at ill have a stationer, • brazier, and a joiner—(Loughterf—lse woad still have to enter charges of beer, bread, air: wine. But ell these he had not made up his mind to do without, and to these points as much ridicule would attach as to thole! he would go un sparingly discard. He lied expected thstiire Hun. and Learned Gentleman's plats would have coot:dri ed some great practical adventegee, and lie was much disappointed to find it simply a pl in for its. riding the King from the splendour and st.,te which ought to attach to Ittin--ati object as link worthy the trial as it was invidious soil objectionable. All the objections now urged were is, existence at former periods, when the Civil List was reviard ; and at every stets some improvement had beets ef fected; if the greater intelligence which now pre veiled on the subject was considered, together wit!. the less degree of complexity on the notice, ); would be thought that though not the :wanton I.OMM/ yet that little remained to be complained of. He thought that every thing which was essential was done previous to the settlement in 1811$ ; ei.d the only tendency of the present proposal was, h i separating the Sovereign from his servants, to render his person inure praindient than at return). He could not thick it i:eces'ary to cut from the Crown every ancient jewel winos stiorner! rt, rwr to destroy that illusion, nut delusion, which resulted from their splendour ; he was not fur tearing the drapery from the Monarchi both supported and adorned it. Altogether, he thought the object ill-advised and ill-supported ; if indeed any erw demands had been made by the Ministers, or ally the lightest indication given by the Crown of • eels to add to the burdens of the country, then the House might indeed be carried further that: they originally intended to go. But there had not been • bit of argument adduced to induce the House to forego the benefits of an arrangement which bad had the adventege of four years satis factory experience. When he considered also the gracious wishes of his Majesty to save his people all unnecessary expener, as evinced by his giving up to the disposal of the House fund. applicable to other services, but which had fallen in, to these he thought they would make a very ungracious re. turn if they entertained the mutton of the Learned Gentleman. The Ministers. lie contender!, had dotie all that they ought to da ; but he was firm in the maintenance of every right of the Crown which was not cosily to the people or injurious to the Constitution.—(Near, hew, hear.) -11e admitted that, technically tweaking, it was a new thing which they were debating, but 141 reality it was not; is, some eases the thtug was changed while the person remained the eau', but here the person is changed but not the office. The Right lion. Geittlentaii concluded lit. speech by saying;, that lie thought outlines alterations as proposed were necessary ; they would, if carried into effect, cause no difference, no saving of expense. or if a differ vice wits made, it would he the other wiry. The Ministers had redeemed their pledge ; they ls.oi lidded uothing ; uo augmentation vas either risked or desired, aud what was more, it never had for one tnoment been in the contemplation of Ministers to advise an augmentation. It was the more Deers. sary to observe this, as such a report bad been ',a very general circulation. He ilseas moved that the House do peso to the Order of the Day. Mr. BROUGUAII mud Mr, CAUSING motnall, explained. Sir inalge MACNINTOIIII said, that if his conduct in dolt lima was govern/4 by any other thau.lll4o