The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-03-10 00:00:00

• • lhjr, t y 9 4 ).0t1:111r henna him toil() so more than if the • • env ;e ve, treaty ha.: existed. jir lat J. NEWPORT observed, that the Right u geseere ele Gentleman seemed to think no upi. waste eon cuuld be better than his own, andelsat the t heel the present Administration from their first resent M o tion seas in consequence of such a na- coming into poWer up to this present day. i ; Orr, t e a r it was only neceasa r y t o state it to have Mr. VILLIERS spoke, but in a manner so it aceet t,.a to without discussion. Now he did very inaudible, that we could Catch but few of his to e s that if ever there Ras I qiteetton store likely *olds. He stated that he had stedfastly laboured, eon w indier to create a debate, it was that which and with great effact, to embody tronin in Portugal, Bas 0„.,, adore the Committee. It was to engage and had never relaxed life exertions for raising the The question whether, we should Pure teen to continue a contest which no ettebet the levies. g o t lieniorrabliGentlemau thought any other our army in Portugal to bc aided by all•that Por then desperate; and he could not hut wonder at his NO could do, or to contend with the enemy alone, sepposine that the sentiments of that Iluitie were I when the whole mess of the peopfe depended on e iady different to demi° pf rho country. ! them for protection. - lie wia of opinion that if .Chi, was not all, there was another pititst the Spaniards bad done their duty (and his °pi ts, which • discussion might well' hare been nion was deliberately formed on the spot), the aid oreei t, even had there been a prospect of afforded by this country would have more than suf. woes ; the policy of taking Portuestese troops fired for the deliverance of the Peninsula. Ile „„ r pay. What reasnit could the Right could not conceive how any' one could be of opi.• He ,,, er ehle Gentleman hare for. thinking 'they 'aims that an army should remain there unaided by y e n!! prove etileient„ . at least in a degree proper. our allies. The Portuguese Government hail din. ee ede to theeipeuce incurred for . their 'sup. played great energy in raising . the supplies.. He ert ? What energy bad t he y ever yet elicit' concladed by panegyrizing Lord Wellington. their own cope to entitle -them to such a Mr. GURWE'N had looked in vain to what orlk , ; 1? If, Weever, it mild be proved fell front the Right lionotatable Gentleman, for o a t etch a force waii desirable, he thought some grounds in support of the present motion.— w e ster; hail been guilty. of a reprehensible What, hoWever e was he to think, when the Ito. laity in m i eesta teee e 41w oe ce e sery arrangements utterable Gentleman who spoke last, and who I ,4„re. lit a letter, bearing deice November was on the spot, stated that Spain had not done l ees, it teas stated, that as soon as 10,000 LW &air? lot ese circumstances, how could Gen ets were on foot, his Majesty would ad. Remelt call on that iltinsefo agree to the present n ee a preeer sum for their maintenance.— motion, as creating a , diversion in favour of T k t gez t Idler on the subject was dotted Feb. 2S, Spain ? 'rho Rouse hid heard, too, from the t o, which set forth,. that as nothing had been HonontableGentl.anati who spoke last, that there lately heard of else progress of the levies .in was energy in Portugal in the collection of fartugel, au mtiotato oaf e xpencee WAS tk- elute barked he said that there was any energy s e e d as soon IS ImSdible, resat the same might be in thelieeple in providing for the safety of the ea before Perliate est. From a subsequent let- country ? If there had been any patriotism in et , "tiniest by the Marquis Wellesley to the Portugal, would it have suffered the French army in * e w e , in p.rival. it appeared that other ' the first instance to overrun it in the matinee it lied tits w est have been wri•tee on the subject, done? Ile believed the Portnenese looked on the free o es sentenc e —st Th e policy repeatedly contest as being a British cause, and not one for need y stir dispatches." Where weie those theinterests of Portugal; anti hu was• afraid the dispatches ? Iti lay were they called upon to vote gallant army which wu had in that country, was the k.iiits revirill, without being put in pout- placed in a very disagreeable predicament. It was re iel ,r the re 'sons which intim:need the . Mi. ineithibent on the Right Honourable G=entleman, in p is te to r a mp' in advising such a men. Calling an the Holise to concur in the present um. ore ? The reasons given by Win far em- lion, to show that Portugal was in a situation to b el l y ing Pertriguese tr o ops could met be good, be saved—no prudent matt could say that Spain or Ministers would have produced them in was in this state.. But was there nothing in the thelicetion, or in support Of the motion. s condition of the country to oppose the vote now Why lied nit Mr. Canning &not answered fur l proposed ? Was there nothing in the mode thirteen months ? When they called for a million in which it was now found necessary to col_ tar such purpoio, at a time when every beee of test the taxes, which ought to make the House SUMS watt annihilated, he could not enise,it to ,scrionsly hesitate, before it v o ted away a milli o n tie !eerie', as he Biel not hie k they coitlil id- of money, without the prospect of any advan. liner the raise in arty (kerec proportionate to the tact, resulting from it ? If our enemies could exprnce they e truld,cost the country. By the form a wish as to the conduce it would he due at is hicit the new levies were to be made, most agreeable to them we should ailopf,—if t 3 he was hut little pritbability of the pieces in ileperte ceald express a wish on this subject, it ;tech they Were to-bit retard brim in the pos. would be that we should attempt to stippuri Per. s ..,i u s e ither sit the English or of the Portuguese. titgal. For he must know it would be time height There was a degree of Infatuation in agreeing of maihicss in us to do so. Lint hail nothing sith the preP n esition, which he hoemil,the House I lately liaised in this country to make the House weld never display. He entreated them well to pause? Had uothiag lately occurred in (list equiJer whit they did, anti no letigei.to stir- Thtuse ? Ile confessed it was uothing ne w to him trace ever treasure and best Waited Into the, (e ver. . Curtecii); but still many Members of bead•'of nti•ii - aWa ithd so often biant preset in: the House must have been startled and alarmed tempetetit to the discharge of the rirtictlonsi at titer:matte- A.ltight lionuarable Gentleman et their respective •ituations. in a proper manner. (Mr.' Wuskisson), lately iti. the — A Cmtvitstratioori The Right lion. Gentleman relied notch, on the and whosu attention had been pecnliaily celled to retarded sentiment: , of Parlianacut. In their Ad- the subject, had told the House that a Kevision besot 1809, they bad declared they would aid the and retrenchment in the expenditure of the cone tune of Spain so twig as theSpaui nets remained true try, not to the extent of a few troops of cavalry, totheasselves* ; hut he contended they hail ceased to nut as to.some militia regiments—but a radical and be tree to thernaelves. Had they 'been true to complete retrenchment was absolutely required. theaselves in giving ap Sevilla to south a force as This was nut idle phantom, but a statement coining Ind been sent against it ? leaving all their froth a Gentleman who possessed information on military stores, ke.. to fall into the hands of the the Subject, and *hose ()ivy it had been to ex tame, without making one effort to convey them amine into it minutely. Ile thanked the Honour. In Cati'a ? la what instance had they been true to able Gentleman for the warning, but he wished' it, Iheireelte . ? With tiwifte.eption of one or two towns e had coune at an earlier periled, when the Hon Aletn. is 'Weil he 1;110404 unparalleled valour bed been ber for Oakhanipton (Mr. Wardle) in the course dwelayed, in no instance had they actinitted them. of the last Session, called the attention of the aches cell. Prete thebegionine e a s h e was well in. Rouse to the subject. If he lied done so, they formed by many Otficers.whe had been there, they would, probably, bellow saved the inquiry in which uniformly appearbil tome (*making a jnint effort. they were at present migiged ; they would have . With this knewledte, was England in circumstances been saved the late disgraceful Expeditien ! An. tags farther with this infatuation ? If so, he wished 1 other Hon. Gent. admitted that ice must retrench ; know *bete it would end. It was not an insig. ' then, why be called on to tote a millien of to;mey ailcant kown holding out (bat could justify us in in this hopeless etperintent, at a period too, when giving our assistance. Nit hopes of success were the depreciation of our paper money was about entertained out of doors, awl .how such an idea otte.thirk? These were disagreeeble triable but caahl be cherished ie that Hoeft he was itt a lose, they must he told. With economy, the country 11 4 conceive. The Right Hun. Gentleman had to pouessed the means of retrieving i tself, but not slid aid was only gives wities view to !Hawks. Wiehout it. Bonaparte looked not to his arms, ite credit cherish such a hope be.woold support the but ;to oar prodigality, for e ff ecting our u v e r. notion. that is, If omh a dying Poxtugiteete troop* throw. lie (Mr. Classes') was unwilling to yen- Isere lik e ly t o contribute effectnally to thet.object. tent this last , stake. We were in a ti a wful Be wished to know what it Was Intended subse. sitoinient e! The Constitution had undergone a tpient:y to do with the troops. (An the French' change. The house was not what it had been. taski n g. themselves masters of the country, were A Minister, formerly, could not remain its they to be brought to Eurgland to add to the kit e . office *Rhea possessing the confidence of eense number of fort ign troops already its tol d the flou;e. Noel Misisters found that they could eanntry ? O r were they to be left there ready. retain their situations without possessing the eon. trued for the iii'reech service, that Ilonapartssifidyneu clam* of that House sir of the country. night have so many more men .ready to invade [G ries of hear, hod". !) Mr. Pitt could not main. tat teerlturiee ? They miglit e fosce them on the tails himself after he had lust the confidence of the staftits, hut they woul.l out be received with open ilouso, but the present Ministers had greater re ktt there. A diffcrenee long subsisted between fiance on the torpar both of that House and of the the natives of Portugal and thetraaill. .Ministers politic. What a change, was there in the feelings onto to take into consideration both *ltems. of thd public stow and during the Inquiry of last tires, whether the French weredefeated or the F o ng. year I Then the public thought that time House /kb driven oat of Portugal, and b e p'repared accord. had given a blow to corruption. Seeing that this . inglY. Were they never under any circumstances to was not the case, they were now completely (Lilies.' give up a cause' which they had once espoused ? cent. If the House wished to save the country, .he Meld Honourable Gentleman might talk as this was the time to dismiss the .feelings of party, e r nePlea , ed 'boat the French never being able to and to look only to the e ff ectual mean. which at gain a tranquil establishment in Spans ; but if they that moment offered. Ile should not presume to' could only be annoyed by a hand of marauders oc. say what the &piece was, but it was one which issuing from the mountains. thou gh , this must not be neglected. The first object was to desultory kind of warfare I might do France some brin g the expenditure of the country within its. harm t would du England no good. The French income. The moment they did so, they would. 'unit;rt present, The vote of this were manitailied in Snail' at cut off the hopei of France. the expellee of the Spaniards. Our soldiers night, if it was such as he expected, would do ! ere Provided fur by this couotry. Provi. more fur the good of the country than the battle ' snows had been. hid from its that they might of Talavera, or the capture of half a French he surrendered to the French. if our force army. This would bring us ultimate success, but lard nut been divided and frittered away. we must not look for it otherwise. The Right *c might have done something of importance. If s lion. Gentleman (Mr. P e rceval) salted, shuiuld we inste a d ref having a little expedition here,. and a abandon Spain and Portugal ? No, surely not. tittle expedition there, we luau! concentrated our Not abandbri them, but give them i the mean . s Of force, choose t. B i t is and endeavoured to mike a decisive , bloo d e fonding that' country U. th ey , 4._ . . Tii r. he cause might . kWh iota i different aspect. The ispeet it at preseitt wore was gloomy and hopeless, is it only affordett prospcit•it continuing that Nast* of blood and treason white toad character, -~ ~+► ; doing so, we wet* ess, a proceeding wait contra' der these feelings he sh, ring the .question. No .nji m th i a g t h , t a b nd esti t is he cit e n tr t e t c o tt . produced shewtheu ly a t s tirim fe p s o e seb 7k ility s of the measure. Mr. LESLIE FOSTER cited Robertsqn's History of Charles the Fifth, to prove thegal. Wary of the Spanish people, aad contended that the character of valour and steadiness which they displayed on various occasions, particularly at Ss'. regossa and Gerona, fully justified thee* pectationt which induced the interposition of our Govern ment in favour of the Spanish cause. -In support of such a cause, and the people more materially interested in its success, he could not hesitate to afford all the aid in his power, nor could he ever despair of such a people until they despaired of . themselves. General FERGUSON felt it his duty to ex. press Isis opinion as a military man upon this occasion. lie could net indeed sit silent, and' allow the delusion to go forth, that Portugal could derive safety from the armament reerred, to in the motion. Ho would put the question to• the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or to any. Gentleman who had spoken upon the other side,. whether he serionsly believed that3o,ooo men could be Wend fit for military service in all Portugal i or rather,. whether cress half that number could. be produced capable of efficiency ? With every dis position to do ample justice to the activity and skill of his gallant friend (General Beresford), he thought. it quite 'absurd to .egicidate upon the formation of such a collie of Purtuinese any officer could rely upon to act apart from a Bri tish force, or to afford any effective aid in the event of invasion. Upon such an occasion, indeed, the campaign must he fought by al army composed of very diffe.rent materials from those which it would be rational to look for among the Portu guese people. The opinion which lae entertained upon this subject derived additional, confirmation from sumo intelligence which he had recently re ceived from a friend, who had the fullest opportu nity of personal observation. In fact, the Por tuguese levies were of such a description, , that he should regret the fate of our gallant troops, if calr led upon to cooperate with them. Indeed he saw no use to which such levies were convertible, while there was too mach reason to apprehend their ten dency to produce inconvenience and linger, and therefore he could not approve of tbeinotionp Mr. M. FITZGERALD observed, that the Hon. Gentleman Who sat down fait but one, hail passed a paoegyric on Spain, without conside ‘ riug the present question. If the Pisani/Riese were at tachod.to their country, and yet slid 'but resist the first invasion, what hopes of loyalty and religion could be expected from them ? surely nut because they are placed under British Officers. From the manner in which the Chariceilor of the Exchequer hest formed his expectations, it appeared. to him as if his Majesty's Ministers were totally issihrant of military measures. The only femible one was that of flanking the French in ; but it was the front, and not the , flank of the foe we were to meet. The Honourable Gentleman wished to know whether, in• the event of re moving the Portuguese troops from Portugal, ie wocatelsestet• tic send them to Ireland. Was it wished to 'send ItAiman Osikeviic touldiers there? It was only in the extremes of bigotry Ministers could 'find security ? [Hear ! hear ! from the Opposition.]—lie would ask Ministers whether they had employed transpOrts to carry away our cavalry from thence? Ito this service otor.mo ney would "'be better employed.' It we sent.an army to Portugal, it must be able to take the field independently,. and without occlsion for assist ance. When he saw Ministers going to commit extravagances like the present, he thought that this House should interfere to prevent, the effects of such insanity. As to any benefit to be derived frosnthese .levies against the common enemy, he folly concurred in opinion with the gallant o ffi cer who had just sat down. He had indeed never heard of any achievement performed by the Por tuguese, with the exception of that in which 2000 men, •Iseaded by the Bishop of Oporto, entered Oporto end took 24 Frenchmen prisoners. ( A laugh,. and !pear, hear !) The idea of retain. ing Portugal appeared to him to be quite merical:—witile our keeping sip a force there was attended with enormous expence. Indeed he had* lately seen a military Memoir, presented to Louie t XIV. at the time of the contest for the. Spanish succession, from which it appeared, that our maintaining a force in Portugal, without advanc ing into Spain, was thu very course of policy which it was fur the interest of the Fr'ench that our Government should, pursue ; and it would not be denied that there was a consideralile analogy between the conduct of that war and the present. Mr. C. BERESFORD thought he shoutd not do his dlitY, if he silently passed by a dereliction of the bravery and exertion o f a nation, which. if we did not assist, its troops must be disbanded. The Ilon. Getotlemau then mentioned the connec tion which. the Emperor of France' is about to feria, and which he thought could not fail to Jar. fect the politics of Europe; a . ..))1 this surely iris , not a time for us to abandon a faithful ally. Lord MILT ON approved of an original intser position ie the CialSe of Spans ; but 'he disapproved of the conduct of the war, and particularly of the system now proposed, which would convert us into principals,' instead of acting merely as atilt. Hari... la fact, if this system were acted upoth the Portuguese must rather consider us as fighting. for ourselves than for them, and what degree of efficient zeal were they likely to feel in such c o ntest But, with what prospects or success' could we, in the present situation of tarries upon the Peninsula, any longer persevere in such a con test? . With the French snider the walls of Cadiz, and stith all the circumstances in view, how could - any reasonable man be reemsciltd to vote a million ot poblic money fur the p ► urpose re ferred. loin the motion But if success rare VW , practicable, was it wise to ,vote such at grant for s elicit an aid ? It had often bee n the pv3Cice of thi country tti subsidze 'foreig n trosips lievedf that it never i before entered the head of '- but, Fo be- - the Spanish nor POrtugiele . people thought case desperate; but the. Ge ntlemen on the 'tithe* aide seemed tuitions to Persuade them and the Pena' ;he of England that it was so. He.wai not, how? ever, to be influenced by the observations of dint - . Gentlemen, aid therefore he luald vote fOr true motion. • .1. . Mr. TIERNEY spoke agaitist itie Motion, and proposed an Amendment that the Chairman should leave the Chair, report Progresa, tad sat leave to sit gait). . . Lord DEiART vindicated the eltaraciee ei OA • Portuguese people, among whom, he -to°tendoti; there had been many noble displays of gcnuine.ps. triotism and military spirit. In proof of this, ho could refer to many Officers who lied kid 'oppor tunities of- observation, and partieelarly to • sir. Robert Wilson, for whose conduct at the held of • Portuguese troops, it would be recollected that , *. there was before the House a noticed Motion fox a Vote of Thanks. Mr. BANKES approved. Of the Ainendment and if it had- not been put, he should not have hesitated to give a direct negative to the Original motion. He lamented the state of daetalty and aintbarrassment in which the House was placed by this motion-.-but the state was owing to the coo.. duct of Ministers. It must be in thu retnembraeco of many Gentlemen who heard hiM, that this pro. ject of a Portuguese levy was first formed id Nu. vember,. 1808—yet not a word about it was eacti. -tintted in the subsequent Sessions, nor until verjr lately, when • the project• situ, it appeared, but , • very imperfectly carried into sweetie°. : In -fatty: tho House was called upba to sole to provide , for 30,000 men, before en, of that body • -peered to have been raised. But he could never persuade himself to assent to Such a,molion ; aud, among many other reams, for thelatiell. • which were obvious — fi rst, that , we had snot *mil.. • lion of money to spare ; and secondly, that if we even had, this was not the way in which we Ought to dispose of it. For any efficient petiole of . - war, he really believed that 3,000 British soldiert • would .he of more use than 30,000 POelugueles • • and why then should thecountry be Iturthened.fosthis - support of such a force ?He very. much sloibted t. • whether our conduct towards both the Spaniard , 'and Portuguese, was not calculated to induce an., opinion among thine people that curl thing was .to be doue,for theist, and nothing by !item. • 4 • would probably, kayo been better if not single British regiment had been sent to t lid Penintosta, and that means had been taken to excite these people to struggle for themselves, than to takes(' much of tho struggle into our own . hands. Too snitch money, perhaps,. had been furnished to them. They ought to have been urged to look to their own ex ertions, and if no adequate soirit had existed, they would have found gold themselves, or crehted substitute fur it, as was .the age. in the pepolar. struggles of America aud France. Througlput;' he thought that the people of Spain and Portugal , had. been encouraged toe.rnurb to look to.th4 • country, and too WO - . its themselves: Thil was a mischief which, 'as far as .was ptactie4. tile, ought. to be remedied ' , But for this poi. pots the preterit motiou was. Sake -Wetly because it proposed that we should, betotho . in the war futa Age qt., Assteguesto • people into our pay. Where, howeiter,lo weld* • ask Gentlemen, were the mew; .to be fonod elf , advancing this payment t • Ile begged itt to hm considered, that only 125,0001. in gold and silver . ... • could by .any means be procured 10 pay oar,: : troops in the expedition to Walcheree ; and let, it be borne in miod, that money must be shat 4; Portugal ; for that alone. particularly in the event of invasion, could serve for the payment of, one military force. Paper would not auswer. In tire present scarcity of bullion then,. he requested . the particular consideration of this poini. The enemy .were now, perhaps, - in the possesston of Catlia, which in fact escaped immediate capture only through an accident. All jhe calculam tos of Ministers were disappointed. Alreheir predictions were falsificd—eveti that of which they held out an, assurance so lattrai the 23t1 of January last was dissipated. The Cortes, which were to be immediately assembled, had not even a town in Spain to meet in. The expedition tolValcheren had failed-4otally failed. In fact, nothing that Ministors promised was fulfilled —nothing they speculated upon was. successful ; and was it then possible, that the Cotnasittee, with such aniplo and recent experience,. could eouscnt to invest such Ministers with the means df engaging in any farther speculations ? Mr. JACOB contended, that the present site.. ation of Spain was such as to. *hew that all, the efforts of Bonaparte had fallen far bort of the total subjugation of the country. ile said that, disastrous as must he the evils attendant upon ci vil. war, they were yet more tolerablk to the Spanish people th le the atrocities eelee::littlid by the French from day today, in titter violation of . every law, human and divine. The effects of this . system . were so sensible throughout Spain, that the post ,could not pass without a sonodron to ' geoid it.' France had no other hold of Spain at present than that of a military. van Rum,. Ho thought that, under all circumstances, the calico • was not lbetutlestt; and nut being so, it might bus productive of lasting mischief to it, , the now re. fusing the aid that was proposed.- There wait wisdom in Mowing the fit and seraloosble moottet of despair; that moment hsd not .yet arrived; and It was not *int to auticipate it 4 Ile should vote for the Resoihtton. Captain PAR'KEit spoke with *rattail( in fa. • • your of the &etiolation: It had hien •saa - that the cause was.hOpelliss. •He dented it (a. laugh) H--it cultic, not bellitsPeless, for while there was life there was hops lisugh..) . He asked if it became a generous Power like Ragland to stu don a friend in the moment of &strew ? Gentlemen argued, that oar esslitance could do no good; but would not our refusal of dint aSSICAUCC do cond. derable harm ? The - Portugit4se troops hist been stready.ahnied, as men on wittiag or !neapuble of defautling themselies: Put theta Wet "acid Ori. • . • . 4 ~.~ 4 ....__„ ' .. w - • . , . J‘ • , e pot t• encourage 04 MP ' :Such t nglish Statesian, to grant su4sidies to a Perin. , i contrary to orisials juidoe. Un. gutsy force, to those, tu f.tct; . itni(mg !alma tit* ihe should rote rather for defer. materials forlu Arniy could not lie found . n. No injury could arise from Mr. M. MNTAGUIC obseyrcd, that neither ~ ... : - .._ .__..,.. •1... ii. :~ =,~ , i vii I ou ily t MCH I ha, Lit a SC WI c bit re bell a on wog Ott lid pa UC ;§ it lut 01 *nig, tr co Mani lie d Pi rtil 4l, ' to 1' dig Us'