The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-04-29 00:00:00

; low 11111 erov , ' 7 i~~ IlleMitsr, from the Merchants and Manufactstrem of Newcastle- Via yne.-T Petitions against any 'iteration were presented by Captain WEIIITIIS, from the county of Fire ; by Sir C. Coax from the .„ Owners and Occupiers of land in Glarnorganshire: by Sir C. Dow ," Das, front the Farmers in the neighbourhood of Newbury, praying as fares they concern the importation of foreign corn, the Laws may not be repeaed ; be Mr. J. FAYE, from Banbury, fordahire, by Mr. LascELtrs, from Pontefract, in York. • by Sir R. Ww•tax, from the Owners and Occupiers M in the East and West Hundred of Cornwall; by Mr. J ak e, owe, from the county of Mayo; by Sir A. CaktennLL, from the Coen-merchants of Glasgow by I.ierd BAINARD, from the neighbourhood of Bandon, in Cor k; by Lord ENNISMOIE, from the county of Cork : by Al r. II u Me, from the Owners and Once— pieta of land in Arbroath, Montrose, and Brechin ; by Coked 11,towirt.. from the Millers and Corn-dealers of Clonmell, tog shat, from their large stock of grain in hand, no alteration= take place for six months{ by Sir AL W. RIDLEY, from Blimp. hatn,in Norfolk : by Mr. CuaTEts, from the Owners and Occu. piers of land in the neighbourhood of Lewes, in Sussex, and from the Editor of the British Farmers' Chronicle; by Sir J. MARJO. ll MANES, from the county of Berwick; by Lord F. Osnoawk, from various places in Cambridgeshire and Buckinghainddre,, amounting to 57 ; by Sir G. CLERK, from the Freeholders and Justices of the Peace in the county of Edinburgh, complaining that the House was about to enter on the inquiry at too late aperiod of the Session ; by Sir J. ASTLEY, from the Owners and Occupime of Land in Devises; by Mr. CriarLtw, from the neighbourhood. of Lincoln and Boston; by Mr. SOT R ERON, from Newark, Oiler. ten, Worksop, and Retford, in Nottinghamshire; by Mr. Best. ITT, from the Owners and Occupiers of land in the vicinity of Marlborough, in Wiltshire, and from Salisbury, in the same councy ; by Mr. HEATUCOTE, from the East Hundred of Rut. landshire ; by Sir W. LcoLEBY, from Rarton.on-Humber, and several places in Lincolnshire; by Sir G. Wall RENDER, from Haddington and Roxburgh shires ; and by Lord UXBRIDGE, from some places in Anglesea. These petitions were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed. Mr. LESLIE FOSTER presented a petition from the Land owners of the County of Louth, against any alteration in the Corn Laws. He had been consulted on the subject of the Corn Laws, and bad given it as his opinion that no alteration ought to take place ibis year, but that a revision of them should be gone into nest year. He found since that he was correct in both of these con. jeerers] opinions. IMPORTATION op FLOUR. Sir J. WROTTESLEY was desirous of taking the present op. pottonity from the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Huskia. eon), as he had given notice of hie intention to submit a proposition respecting bonded corn, whether any part of his plan was to make any alteration with respect to the importation of corn. 3lr. lILISRISSON replied, that as It was his intention to pro pos no alteration in the revision of the Corn Lave this year, he wade adopt the same plan with respect to the importation of flour, and abstain from proposing any alteration from the present law upon tat subject. Sir T. LETH BRIDGE presented a petition from certain land holders in the Counties of Gloucester and Somerset, against any al. teration in the Corn Lain. Mr. R. SMITH presented a similar petition from the millers of the County of Lincoln. Lord E. SOMERSET presented a similar petition front Stowe in. thc , W ohl, in Gloucestershire. Mr. T. WILSON presented three petitiors from the merchants, shipowners, Atc. of Leith, and one from the labourers on the Theme*, praying fora revision of the Corn Laws. Mr. BRIGHT presented a petition from the millers of Bristol, praying for protection from the importation of foreign corn. Mr. NEWMAN presented a petition from the county of Devon. against the Corn Laws. Mr. HUM E presented a petition from Perth, praying for a re• vision of the Corn Laws. He expressed his full concurrence in the 'orepodterser of such a revision. Slr E. HARVEY presented a petition from Rochford in Essex, against any alteration. CORN LAWS. Mr. S. WORTLEY presented a petition from Scarborough against any . alteration in the Corn Laws, and a petition from Shef field, pray ing for a revision of the law between landlord and tenant Mr. IItONCIC presented a petition from Reading, praying for a revision of the Corn Laws. Mr. DENISON presented a petition from certain millers in the county of Surrey, against the Importation of Foreign Corn, and also a petition from the inhabitants of Lambeth against the Corn Laws. ___ Sir T. ACLAND presented two petitions, one from Tiverton acid the other from Dartmouth, against the Corn Laws. Mr. COKE presented ten petitions from certain towns and hundreds in Norfolk, against any alteration in the Corn Laws. At the same time that he presented these petitions ire begged to repress his dissent from the prayer contained in them. He was of opinion that some revision of those laws was requisite, and the present existing Corn Laws were calculated to create a ferment in the country, and were at variance with the real interests of the agriculturists themselves. He regretted this difference of senti ment with the petitioners; but he gave it sincerely, and he might be presumed to know something on the subject, as he had devoted its whole life to agricultural pursuits. (Hear, hear.) He at the same time disapproved of any sudden or violent change. Mr. FLEMING presented petitions from Southampton, Win. chester, Petersfield, Portsmouth, Farnham, and other places in Hampshire (eight in number) against any alteration in the Corn Laws. Col. JOHNSON presented two petitions from two hundreds in Lincolnshire, against any alteration in the Corn Laws. Sir G. NOEL presented a petition from certain landowners In Poland, against any alteration In the Corn Laws. Mr. P. MOORE presented a petition from the cotton-spinners of Stockport, against the Combination Laws. Lord G. CAVENDISH presented a petition from Chichester against any alteration in the Corn Laws. Mr. WILDIO AN presented a petition from the eastern division of the county of Essex against the Corn Laws. Mr. W. WHITMORE presented a petition from Davenport, praying for a revision of the Corn Laws. MOTION TO AMEND THE CORN LAWS. Mr. W. WH ITAIORE then rose. It now became his duty, In Forename of a motion, of which he had given notice in the early part of the Session, to bring before the House the consideration of Le important question of the Corn Laws. Previous to his enter. ing on this subject he was desirous of offering a few observations with respect to the motives which actuated him in undertaking to bring forward this question at all. His motives he was anitisulio explain, not from regard to any personal feelings, but from a regard to the fate of the measure which he had undertaken to its. troduce. If from r ersonal vanity he had brought forward this question, or if he had undertaken it under the absurd notion of occupying a prominent station in this House, which his talents, his habits, and his inclinations alike unfitted him to till, he would then, indeed, well deserve the censure which in the course of the last week had been so liberally east wean him but this was not the motive that actuated him ; he was induced to Introduce this question at this time, because the period had now arrived whlsla called upon them to revise and alter the Corn Laws, 'Which were disgraceful to the country.— The Corn Laws, as they now stood, were a glaring exception to the principle of free trade which the Goveructient and the country professed to hold. If continued, they would diminish, if they did not altogether destroy. the benefits which we may hope to derive froan the adoption of liberal commercial principles. it was im. possible to reflect how deeply these restrictions on an article of prime necessity, affected the labourer and the manufacturer, with. our feeling the inconsistency of continuing them whilst we pro leased to adopt liberal commercial principles. It was impossible to approach the subject of a free trade without meeting a striking grievance in the shape of this unjust and oppressive tax. He (Mr. W. Whitmore) had strong and deep conviction, that by conti nuing the restrictions on C47:41, Parliament would Inflict a moat dreadful evil, not only on this country but on Europe. We should see the agricultural-interestogain involved in the difficulties from which it had lately escaped. It was strange that a body of men sO enlightened as the agriculturists could not sec their own interest on tins particular sulkier. Every man of experience must be aware of the injurious effects produced by the prodigious fluctuation in the prices of Curn. There was another tremendous evil--an evil which it behove, every man of humanity end consideration to guard against—an evil which comes upon any people with horror, but which would come upon the people of this populated country, attended by circumstances of peculiar aggntvation—he meant the probsbili.)4at one period of a de ar th, and at another of a sigge. abundance and a glut. it was his considerate conviction That wo were drawing gradually towards the evil which he had last Lin. t toned. The stocks, widish three or finer years ago were very were now gradually diminishing. %Ve hail latterly become more e pendent upon the seasons, end if the stocks continued to diminish, upon the occasion of a dearth we should find it exceedingly dint. cult to get from the wt...ic world corn sufficient for our consump. non. It was easy to prove that restric:ive laws upon corn operate so produce the more frequent recurrence of a dearth. Let Gentle man conceive the probability of a famine in a parish which was confined to itself fur the produce of all the corn consumed by its inhabitants. Extend this principle to a county, and the danger diminishes, but still exists. Extend it to a kingdom, and although dearth wouldbe of rare occurrence, it would be by no means im probable. It was clear that any kingdom was the more liable to famine when the importation of corn was restricted. (Hear, bear.) It was an indisputable maxim, that the wider the basis upon which we depended for a supply, the less chance there was of dearth, and the narrower the basis, the greater chance there was. (Hear.) He had no desire, unnecessarily, to alarm the country, but he must express his belief, that although propitious seasons might for a while avert the evil, and Parliament, by altering the laws, might avert it for ever ; yet, he was con. towed, if those lows were continued, which were at variance with the free principles of trade. a period would arrive when we should reap the bitter fruits of such a law. Those who could contemplate such a period with coldness or indifference, were possessed of stronger nerves than be could boast. EmTland was the grand regu. . . . of • - :factoring produce, a effect upon the great part of the intended for inn. -Corn Laws, and Ail effect, which inexperienced t ye. I the most injurious Mu consequence of ptainced a glut in the at foreign powers ' , err found so dim. ~~ , 1 1 law of agricultural produce, as well as of manufac 1.4 and the English Corn sws had a very serious e agricultural produce of other countries. 19 hen agn lauds on the Continent were cultivated , the corn in ter was thrown back on the ports b y the 'C caused a glut. Our Consuls abroad remarked this ; i caused a range of prise quite wonderful to an lima le was his opinion that the Coml.:us produced the effects upon the whole cultivation abroad. The I.S England shutting her market was, that it produret t: \ foreign ports, which was found so injurious, that I posed r 2,5 of a similar tendency to three which r..r . . • i , t o, 1 . Irnnuil in this country. Spain, Portugal, and even Holland, our example with respect to those restrictive laws. He charged it upon those laws, that they had changed the w course of trade, and had a' tendency to repress production, to an Natalie which may ltimately involve not only this country but Europe In distress. it was the opinion of persons the best in formed, of men of Intelligence, whose judgment was sharpened by an attention to their own interests, as connected with this subject, that production was not keeping pace with consumption. No man who is well informed on the subject, and had made up his mind, ought to withhold this opinion from the public. ' He would read an extract from a letter written by a gentleman of great intelligence and respectability, residing in Antwerp. This gentleman was well informed on all matters of trade, but particu larly on every thing connected with the corn trade. He stated, that " the Corn Laws had been productive of the most disastrous consequences in Poland ;" that production had in consequence diminished, and that the penury of the agricultural classes had in creased. He also stated, that the export of British, end British colonial manufacture to Poland, did not now amount to one. half of its amount before the passing of the Corn Laws.. It was also worth remarking, that Mr. Merry (the writer of the letter) states, that wool was found much more productive than corn, and that much land was being thrown out of cultiva tion, because cattle were found to yield a better return. The pea. sentry in that country could afford to pay 355. per Winchester quarters for wheat; but they could not he supplied from Bohemia, the pest corn country, under 38s. the quarter. lie bad adduced these facts to prove a position, to which no man could dissent, that' if we determinately exclude the produce of other countries from our market, we shall cause a great change in the amount of foreign produce. Whenever we are brought to that situation, when we shall require to eke out consumption by the produce of other coon. tries, we shall find there will not be &Sufficient quantity at the foreign pooh. He would now refer to another, and not a less important view of the case. If we refused to allow the importation of foreign corn, foreign states would produce something else, which would come in competition in our markets, and affect the price of our ma. nufactures, particularly since we had begun to act upon the liberal principles of trade. How had the principle which he laid doss acted upon the importation of wool ?. It had increased in an Is.. mense proportion. He did not mean to push this argument toe far; he knew alterations had been made in the laws, but he wished to call the attention of the House to the facts. The annual weir. age import of wool for fire yen, ending in December, 1823, was 16,194,302 cwt.; in 1824 the import was 112,553,222 cwt., lamb* an excess this year over the preceding years of no leas dm 6.363.720 cwt. The Corn Laws not only affect the imported. at wool, and consequently its price, but they also affect the 1 tion and price of various other articles of production."" we refuse refuse to admit the corn of Poland, we force Poland to produce wool, end compete with us in the woollen markets ; and so In other branches of trade and manufacture. The importation of tallow had considerably increased, and also the importation of flax : upon which there was an excess in 1824, compared with the an nual average produce of five preceding years, of 221,151 cwt. Having endeavoured to show the injurious effects of the Corn Laws upon our agriculture and manufactures, he would now turn and see how these laws affect the price of labour. No doubt when Corn is double the price at which it is sold in other countries, our labourers must be paid at a much higher rate. Some gentlemen may think that the price of labour is of no consequence to any one but the consumer, as it is charged on the produce. Others, however, with more reason, conclude that the high price of labour goes to diminish the profits of capital. Cm this high price, then, continue, without producing a fatal effect upon capital itself? The effect must be, that we shall at length drive that capital, upon which the greatness of England depends, to seek for employment in other parts of the world. The House should consider the result to which this must inevitably lead. In extent and population, compared with the leading Powers of Eu. rope, England is only a second-rate Power. Comparing the extent and. population of England with France, or even with Austria. England is only& second-rate Power ; and comparing its extent and Clation with the extent and population of Russia, he would ask, I ' v " we could expect to compete with this colossal Empire ? The greatness of England depends upon its capital. and if we diminish that capital and drive it from our shores, England will become a third-rata Power. If we turn our eyes from Europe and I look across the Atlantic, we see a great and rising country. whose power we may judge of by what she has already achieved, when called upon to resist oppression. The population and ex tent will immeasurably exceed that of England. It is her capital, then, that gives to Britain her weight in the scale of nations; and if it is our object to preserve her station, it should also be our object to preserve her capital. We hare been able to contend not only with any single power, but with all power united, and we may be able successful) to do so again, but it is only by the force of our great capital. Could any man say that we ought to trifle with the power of our country in this respect ? There was no man possessed of so much boldness. lie would now ask, had this system of restriction been tried in any country, in which that country had not reaped the bitter fruits of its folly? Holland had imposed an injurious tax, not upon the importation of Corn, but upon the internal trade, and it had produced the most die_ estrous consequences. In no instance could a contrary effect be proved. If it should be proved that restrictions on the produce of corn had produced beneficial effects in any country, he (Mr. Whit more) was willing to give tip his theory. Until this was proved, however, he should continue to believe, that if the Corn Laws of England be left without modification, it will ultimately give a mortal stab to the prosperity of England. This consequence may be remote, and he knew how difficult it was, when the country was l i enjoying prosperity, lo induce Gentlemen us attend to remote con sequences, and examine whether the principle upon which they acted, was intrinsically good. The evil which may arise from the ignorance of the principles upon which those laws were founded, was so SetiOlN, that It deserved the deepest attention. That the Corn Laws, as they at present stood, had the of of rais ing the rents, was, he conceived, perfectly evident. Did they imagine that the people were not aware that those laws had this effect ? The people must know that the rents are thus raised. He did not wish to give offence, but he must say that they raise the rents at the expense of the rest of the community, and this for the main tenance of a law which is directly opposed in its principle, its de tails, and its operation, to every rule by which we bad been here tofore regulated. Ile would put it to the House if this law had not the effect of creating a privileged class? This was not a period of darkness—this was not a time in which the people were sunk in gross and grovelling ignorance. Exactly the reverse was the fact at the present moment. The people were every day becoming more capable of reflecting and of forming sound judgments on all that concerned their own interests. Many were alarmed, and so should he be alarmed, if he were convinced that the Corn Laws were to remain unchanged. If that fatal system were to continue per manently, there would indeed be just ground for alarm, but he was persuaded that there 'mild be no danger if they would only square their legislation according to the new order of things now sprang. ing up. They need proceed with no false or secret system—they had nothing to conceal. Let them recur to the great principle on which the country went previous to the year 1815. He would beg the attention of the House to the contrast which the law now pre sented to the legislation of former periods. The principle of the law of 1815 was to direct opposition to those rules by which we had been previously guided. In 1773, there were two low duties, 2s. 6d. and fel. These were added to the principal duty of 245. 3d. in proportion as the price sunk below the appointed price of 50s. From that period to 1791 the amount of the duties varied, but the same principle was acted on, which imposed the highest of those duties on corn when the price was 50*. 2e. 6d. was added when the price rose to 545., and 6d. additional when it exceeded that sum. Afterwards the price for the highest duty was 535., and 6d. addi tional was laid on when it amounted to 06a. During this period the prices of corn rose, and generally during that time it was on the Increase. This uniformly continued to be the case while trade was free. He was justified—fully justified in saying, that whatever might hare been the nominal prises at the time, the corn trade im proved during that period, lie would now broach a very im portant branch of the subject, namely, the alteration which was deemed essential to be made, in order to put this great and im. portant part of our trade upon its just and natural looting. His strong conviction wait, that we should revert to original principles, and make the trade, if not nominally, at least virtually free; sub. jetting, of course, the import of corn to a fixed duty. Previously to going further, he thought it necessary to clear the ground from the difficulties which might be supposed to arise front the exclusive burdens under which the agricultural classes laboured—the im posts which exclusively affected the land. These burdens he was not disposed to undervalue; he was willing to make full and liberal compensation to the agriculturists, so as that the weight of these burden' should not injuriously operate against them. These burdens were the poor's rates, the land tax, the tithes, and the ex pense of highways. The first of these amounted to 7,000,0001., the second to about 5,000,0001. including the English and Irish tithes, 4 -the third eo 1,210,127/. and 2,0.066/. peed.' for highways. Sup posing, however, that these rums were under the mark, 18,000,000/. might be allowed to cover every thing. If an advantage to that amount were given to the agriculturist, he would surely be left without any just ground of complaint. The consumption of wheat annually amounted to 14,000,000 quarters, barley 3,500,000, and oats 3.1.100,000. With a duty, then, of 14. on wheat, and a pro portionate sum on the other grains, there would be sufficient to answer the end in view. Fixing the duties at this rate would be taking from the pockets of the people no less than 18,000,0001. annually, and he doubted nut that they would be willing to make every reasonable concession to cover the burdens under which the land exclusively laboured, for which purpose he conceived that the duty of 19s. would be found sufficient. The law that they had enacted raised the prices much more than a moderate duty would have done, and more than was consistent with justice towards the other classes of the community. He had already said that any system which prevented the admission of foreign corn was eaceed ingly injurious; that any alteration must involve the imposition of certain duties,enough to pay the exclusive burdens under which the agricultural interest laboured, and tar which purpose 104. he thought would suffice. He agreed to imposing this duty, on the principle that the agriculturists ought to receive stieli compensation an would enable them to meet what fell more particularly on them. Besides that, he was an enemy to any measure which would pro duce sudden or violent change, and if that change had no existence in paint of tact, the mere apprehension of it might produce evil effects. There were other reasons urging to this revision of the law—the Stocks were low and required renovation. lie was aware that others thought differently Nam him—that they were alarmed at the low prices of foreign song; but Diode men should remember, that the admission of oats did not produce this e ff ect. If they were able to procure eatinuoes of the probable amount of the surplus of corn which could be spared to this country by the Continent, lie felt persuaded that it would not exceed a million of quartos ; and if they looked to the information from Spain and Portugal, they would see that there was little short of an actual scarcity in those couetriea. lie could not • 4 'THE BRITISH PRESS. doubt that a isliberste ceaddecallon of the subject would lead the House to the conviction that such a modification of the existing laws might be made as would prevent thaw fatal effects which he, and those who thought with him, anticipated on the one hand, and which those who differed from him feared on the other. He would now shortly lay before the House the view he took of the subject, and the means which he would propose for remedying the calming evils, and for preventing the immense influx of foreign grain which is so much dreaded. He would propose that there should be im posed upon foreign corn a duty of 10s. when the price was 555. and that when it sunk still lower,the duty should be proportionate, 15s. when down to 45a., and 20s. when below that. Generally speaking, and the a permanency, the duty might be estimated at 10s. In the statements which he had thus thought it necessary to lay before the House, he might in some cases be in error, but he had taken every pains to procure the requisite information, and to do so with all the accuracy in his power. He thought it desirable to remove an im pression respecong the amount of imports, which were conceived to be so large. From a return on the table of the House not yet printed, and to which he would earnestly call attention, it appeared that the quantity of wheat imported (including what came from Ireland) from the year Ma t 01925, amounted to only 12,577,000 quarter', 502,700 annually. They could never have reason to apprehend that the consumption would be less than 14,000,000. Perhaps he may be permitted to allude to the state of the country as connected with this subject, and upon that point he would say that at no period could this measure be more advantageously con sidered than at present, foe no interest was more deeply affected. The manufactures of thecountry were in demand, and therefore, as far as that interest was concerned, this question might be ap proached with safety ; and, as far as regarded the agricultural in terest, there never was a time when it could be so little effected by the discussion. An Honourable Member had said, - Wait till the dearth arises." Had that Honourable Member looked at all the =uences of his advice? How could this question be calmly when dearth arose? He hoped the anticipations of that Hon. Ocedeaman, and others who wished for delay, might be realised, mid that, In the next Session, the subject might be approached with arm benefit than at present, but he could not believe that the time stelommended would be better than the present ; but he begged I.lladillais to recollect that the benefit of their recommendation de spot the state of the crops, which WAS a fearful chance to ail •rn. The flow:amble Gentleman adverted to the &ve ed observed that he thought that they had been unjustly ned of, and, by a little care, the inconvenience attendant am them might be obviated, and declared his opinion that a fixed =lng duty could not be safely proposed. The Honourable oe, in conclitsian, expressed his gratitude to the House for the Indulgence with which they had beard him, and moved that the House do resolve itself Into a Committee of the whole House to consider the Corn Laws. Lord MILTON seconded the motion, and Mr. GOOCH Immediately rose and observed, that he thought the Honourable Member had not made out a case. The growers and consumers of corn had been satisfied for these last six years, and when he stated that the average price of wheat had been 68s. 3d. during that period, he thought it could not be considered as too high a price to remunerate the farmers. The present corn. law worked well ; it had procured a remunerating price for the farmer. For himself, he thought 60s. a fair protecting mice. The expenses falling on land were exclusively heavy; for instance, there were bridges, roads, poor-rates. and gaols to be kept up by that class. Ile thought that the Honourable Gentleman had • great deal to answer for in now agitating this question. The country before was in a perfect state of quiet, and now it was in a complete ferment ; but, however, he believed that 60s. was now ma good a remunerating price as its. was some years ago. The agri cultural Interest had once been in danger, and so it would again if them laws were tampered with, and therefore he should move the prey out question. After the amendment had been put from the Chair. Mr. CURIVEN rose, and was for some minutes inaudible In the gallery. lie observed that the state of population hud brought the consumption of corn nearly to the production of it. A great change had taken place in the value of money, however, .and the taxes connected with agriculture, and therefore he thought that 60s. was a fair remunerating price. Certainly 60s. would do better now for the agriculturists than 705.. or certainly 655. would some time since. Five years ago he thought that it was not over production, but un. der consumption that produced the depression in the price of corn, and he believed so still. The supply of corn, however, was never so short as at present. The llonourable Member, under every view of the ease, opposed the motion of the Honourable Gentleman. Lord 0 XMA N TOWN opposed the motion, and observed that If any alteration took place Crow in the Corn Laws, it would place this country in a state of dependence on others. The other temarks of the Noble Lord were quite inaudible in the galley. Mr. HUSKISSON and Lord MILTON rose at the same time. but the call for the Right Honourable the President for the Board of Trade was so loud and general, that the Noble Lord stave way, although we believe he first caught the Speaker's eve. The con fusion that prevailed for • few seconds after filv. Iluskisson rose prevented us front hearing the commencement of his speech. When the noise ceased of 31embers rushing into the House, the Right Honourable Gentleman was speaking as follows : -It is not my intention to advert to the facts that have been so ably brought under the review of the House by my Honourable Friend, and in which I, for the most part, concur ; so that, on that account, it will not be necessary for me, I hope, to detain the House with the observations that I may 'Junk it my duty to offer this evening, for any great length of time. I beg of the Horse, and my honourable Friend in particular, to believe that it is not because I do not consider them worthy of notice that I do not at present advert to them, but my object is now to state the grounds upon which 1 object to the present time for conaidering tjawn, and therefore it does not become n for me to enter upon them. If it should be the pleasure of the ouse to go into the Committee that is sought for by my Honourable Friend, I may think It my duty to suggest measures in that Committee, not differing in principle with the views and opinion. so luminously stated by my Honourable Friend, but only differing in degree, and manner, and time; for in principle I perfectly concur with him. (Hear, hear, hear.) I believe if the House will do me the honour to recollect, they muat be perfectly well acquainted with the view I take of the corn trade. My views upon this very important question are those re ported by the Committee in 1821, and without arrogance I believe that I may refer to that Report, as drawn up with great industry and care, and after the most extensive information had been obtained on the subject to which it related ; and if a review were taken of the relief that has been afforded to the agricultural Interest since the publication of that Report, and the progress of improvement that interest has made su bs equent to that period, I think Gentlemen might be inclined to take a less hostile view of that Report than they have been accustomed to do. I should think every person whose mind was free from prejudice must agree in the soundness of the principles laid down in that Report, for ft takes a most comprehensive view of this great and important ques tion without compromising any leading principle, or dealing uu- justly by any Interest. But, however we may agree as to the Re- port, we may differ as to time and degree. And here, Sir, I must observe, that when we hear petitions read from the agriculturists, praying this House not to alter the Corn Laws, I do confess that I view them with some degree of surprise and jealousy, although I ata disposed to treat them with great attention ; because! cannot forget that these very parties who are now most earnest in wishing for a continuance of these laws, have before said that they were inadequate to the purpose for which they were enacted. Can I, Sir, forget that that was said in the year 1822, when corn was 38$. per quarters, and that the landed interest then declared, that some more efficient measure was necessary for its protection ? Sir, I think from the view I have already taken, and that which I shall feel it my duty to develop to the House In the course of the few observations I shall trouble it with—l think there is no inconsist ency In maintaining the principle laid down by my Honourable Friend, and at the same time of maintaining the doctrine, that this is not the time for disturbing this question._ Even in the countries' nearest to us, the countries most resembling England, corn is not more than half the price of what it is in our country; I allude particularly to the Netherlands and to France. This fact, then, is sufficient to warrant the conclusion that the Corn Laws, as they at present stand, cannot be the permanent system In this country. We are now in the tenth year of peace, yet this is the state in which we stand at the present moment with respect to the Corn Laws. Another fact it is material in bear to mind. For forty years did this country allow a free trade with the Continent, and annually imported a very considerable quantity of corn from thence; but for the last six years this supply has been cut off, and we have ceased to receive at. Consider then the consequences of this interruption (unexpected as it was on the part of the corn-growers of the Continent), after forty years of trade with this country in this commodity; and consider the great accumulation of torn in those countries front which England used to draw her supply, and particularly as the harvests have been, since the period of the interruption, prosperous in the extreme. We Pow that In this country, within the last six years, the seasons of harvest have been unusually prosperous, and I believe they have been equally so abroad. l'he consequence of this interruption has naturally been a great accumulation of corn in all the great exporting porta of the Continent, where corn has recently had no vent; add to this fact, the circumstance that Spain and Portugal hive both interrupted their supply from the north. The natural cense. quence is, that corn is now held by the continental corn-growers at very low prices. My Honourable Friend (Mr. Whitmore) has alluded to the returns made by his Majesty's l'onsuls-General from those ports to which I allude. I know that corn is now selling in those ports--in some of them at one half in others at one third, and in others at no more than one fourth, of the average prices, during the forty years before the change was made. Now I think I am not trespassing very widely into the proscribed ground of political economy, it I state those average prices to be one half what they once were. lf, then, the selling prices of corn are at the present moment so very different front what they were, there° must be a considerable loss to the growers of this ar. title. To illustrate this, I will refer to the Report of the Committee of 1821. The average price of corn at Dantzie fur the forty years was forty-five shillings and a fraction, but it would be of course unfair to take the average at this price, since it must have so varied in consequence of the circumstances to which I have alluded. There must then have been a heavy loss to those holders of land on the Continent, who had raised corn in large quantities, in the expectation of finding a ready market for it an this country. I will put a case to the Noble Lord (Oxmantown), or any Gentleman interested in the welfare of the Sister Eingdom, and I will beg hint to consider in what state Ireland would have been, if, six or seven years ago, we had done what it would have been a fatal policy to do, and have Interrupted a free trade with her, after having encouraged her to raise her produce for our market. 1 advert to this, not because i am influenced by any feeling of ennt passion towards the Continental States —theirdifficultite may have I been great, but I leave them to overcome them—but because it ma ' terially bears .-pot the question now under consideration, Wli:n pl! we examine what ought to be a permanent system. weshould do it, not with reference to what ought to be, or what may be, the istate of foreign produce, but what it really is, depressed by the circumstances I have pointed out. The difficulties in our way will then be clearly seen—the difficulties arising from the state of those continental countries, having no positive vent for their commodities, and having nothing but a casual one, to d tapose of u it- nder lro s u h uch a d ve isco to u eo ra n g s in id g er ci ti f i v e :in , s w ta h n e cti the . r w o i r ll e n s o n t tin fl u ms e e th co e u gro ntr w iee th , of corn. My Hon. - Friend (Mr. Whitmore) has stated to you that the States on the Continent had, in consequence of the measure I have alluded to, in s great degree discontinued to grow corn. I know that the observation applies not only to Poland, but to many other States ; that they have, in discontinuing one produce encou raged another; that they have Increased their flocks, from a know ledge that if our markets arc closed against corn, they are open to wool. I admit that I was at one time a party to raising the tax on wool ; but I know that the consequence of that tax was, that all the low-priced wool was excluded from the market, and that In eon. sequence, in Silesia, and in other places, they manufactured this article to a very great exteet, and made their cloths much cheaper than we were able to do. They therefore found their markets in America, and particularly in South America, to the exclusion of our woollen goods. The subsequent removal of this tax placed us upon the snore footing with them ; our manufactures naturally In creased in prosperity, and raised the price of wool in Silesia, and in those other places, front twenty-three to thirty-three /mins above what it had been. We were therefore able to enter the market and compete with them. Illy object, however, has been mainly to call the attention of the House to the state of things on the Continent, to show the effects of that ac cumulation I have alluded to, and the difficulties it threw in the way of any permanent system at the present moment. If any alteration in the Com Laws were at present thought of, if the ports were at once thrown open, the effect would be to bring into the markets of this country immediately such an accumulation of produce as would altogether disgust the people with the principle of free trade--the principle for which they ought always to have the highest respect. The difficulty, however, was not a natural but merely an artifiethl one; it was the effect of the system of alternate monopoly and free trade. If such be the case then, what, it will be asked, is to be done? There are various ways of remedying the evil. Sly Honourable Friend, looking at the altered state of the country, has said, that he never wished to see corn above the price of 601., as he thought this price would amount to a prohibition—as good a prohibition as the law of 1815, which gave it up to 80s. if my lion. Friend the Member for Suffolk (Mr. Gooch) so thinks, he goes in direct opposition to the petitions that have been presented. There are two modes then to be adopted: the first is that of opening the ports, remitting the influx that would inundate us; and the next is, that of opening the ports, but with such a protection as the agricultural interests of the country required. But if we permit the importation at 60s. at once, the consequence will be, that the whole accumulation of years will im. mediately pour in upon the country, and what the effects will be I cannot say, although I do not participate in the excessive alarm of some lion. Members. If we wish to adopt some protecting system that will be liable to no such objections at the present moment, our difficulties will be very great; because, if we compare the state of the countries on the Continent with this country, re should require a duty so large as to be totally out of proportion, unless we grade ally lessen It so as to permit a gradual importation. These diffi culties have been long foreseen ; the system is no new system; it is the system recommended by the Committee of 1821 and 1822; the system of protecting duties, which that Committee said was not at the present moment in a fit state for a change. This difficulty was contemplated three years ago. The arrangements that were made in 1815 relative to the corn laws, were not considered as permanent, for they were made during a period at which we were at weir with nearly the whole world. In the Reports of the Committees on this subject to 18'21 and 1829, on whirls the law was brought in, it was distinctly stated, that that measure was entirely of a temporary nature, and only adopted until the diffi culty which was mentioned as being In the way of a permanent ar rangement should be removed. I do not therefore go so tar es to say that we cannot, or must not, enter on this revision, and indeed the time must of necessity come when something must be done. It is possible that the want of grain row felt in this country may be diminished between this and another session of Parliament, which will remove a very considerable obstacle to the revision of the corn laws. Looking to the danger which the long duration of this law may bring upon the country, I would have brought it forward in this session, had not paramount considerations prevented it. Something may arise which may admit of foreign corn being gra dually introduced into this country. I cannot say what may hap. pen, but there are various circumstances which may lead to the wished for event ;.--such, for example, as a demngemene in the state of the current, might arise. There are, in short, a thousand circumstances which might remove the present difficulties in the way of the measure at present. Should such circumstances arise as will admit of it, I shall be the first to propose an alteration in the corn laws. In 1822 the price of corn, as the House may remem ber, was very low, and I think it was but fair to allow the farmers three or four years to repair their losses during that period. With respect to the amount of corn at present in bond, it has been estimated at a million of quarters; but I should think it very difficult to make any thing near a just estimate. I do not however think there can be so much, for a great quantity has been discharged, and there have been other means by which it has been considerably reduced. We know, by the experience of former years, what effect even a small supply can produce upon this most important article of con. sumption. On the other hand, we also know how little a larger supply upon a market already overstocked could produce danger. ous consequences. I do not believe that, at the present time, the market is overstocked; because, if it was, the prices would not be so high. There is a very considerably increasing consumption in consequence of the increase of population, and other circumstances now acting in conjunction with that. It is not impossible, that between this time and the next harvest the prices may be raised to the maximum necessary before the introduction of foreign corn. To prevent this, an early opportunity must be taken to introduce bonded corn into the market. I do not mention this for the interest of the holders of this corn, but merely with reference to the benefit which would accrue to the public by the introduction of this cora into the market at this particular period. It appears to me, with. out any prospect of reducing the price of British corn, we cannot do better titan introduce this under certain regulations. I do not think that I can do a greater benefit to the agriculturalists than by this means preventing the glut of foreign corn before August next. The corn now in bond has been so ever since 11122, a period of six years. Among this there is some barley, and a small quantity of peas, but he believed no oats, as they had been released. I must again repeat that it is not from any feeling of interest for the holders of the corn that I propose this. They, like other speculators, must run their chance of profit or loss, and stand by the cone. quences. They might, by that speculation, have made great pro fit, but it so happened that they have lost considerably, and this was no more than other speculators were exposed to. Those among them who were the most fortunate in getting theirs at a low price, must, if they were now to sell it, even at 803. per quarter, be losers. This is a natural consequence of the loss of interest on the capital, and many other concurring circumstances. The present holders of this corn are not, I believe, any of, or at least very tew of them, the original purchasers. It has changed hands several times, and has, I hear, ruined several of them. In March, corn was at 695. 6d. and it seems to me that the admission of this bonded corn might be so regulated, that the holders of it were satisfied if they sold it at shout 70s. Another consideration, 17s. duty, 1, for my part, think too high, and its imposition would, in my opinion, defeat the very object we aim at. I think that if we admitted it at eight or ten shillings, it will still leave the holders losers, but would still be better than letting it rot, and would per. haps be sufficient to induce them to bring it into consumption. The manner in which it should be introduced aught to be so regu. laced that it might be equal to the consumption of each month. This, Sir, I hope, would save us from the convulsion which would ensue upon the tremenderes glut of foreign corn it the price should rise to the maximum. I do not think that when these considera tions are remembered there will be any objection to the principle, whatever I may have with regard to the time. I hope I have suc ceeded in explaining intelligibly to the House the dif fi culties which induce his elsjesty's Government not to embark to a great extent in a sudden revision of the Corn laws. 1 am not prepared to say what may be the proper course to adopt when the revision takes place. Such a statement from me, filling the situation 1 unworthily do fill, would be extremely inconvenient. I cannot help, however, expressing my dissent in some degree to the doe. trines which I have this night heard advanced. Sly Honourable Friend for Suffolk (Mr. Gooch), has said, why not let well alone. always understood that the greatest desideratum in the considers. tion of this most important subject was, to provide if possible for a steadiness of price. Now, Sir, in what mode can this law be said to provide, far 4? It litelts the basis, as my lion. Friend has termed it, From which we are to draw our supplies ; it also prevents the possibility of any vent being found for any excess of produce if we should have an abundant harvest ; it likewise exposes us to the extreme violence of fluctuation, so ruinous to the farmer. Now, Sir, when Gentlemen who ought to have well considered this sub ject came to look to what the effect of this fluctuation would b; they would and that it not only affected the the price of labour,and, in consequence, of all produce, but it would also affect the interests of the manufacturer, the consumer, of every class, and in short of every person in the community. Now, Sir, I will ask whether a ',stern that produces such fluctuations can permanently work well? I coeceive it in the highest degree inconsistent, and ant only astonished at its being gravely brought forward. I should like to know what the supporteta. of it thought In 1822. when wheat was clown to 385.; when Honourable Gentlemen came down to the House, and proposed nothing less than • national bankruptcy. And above all, I would have them remember that they themselves called for an alteration of this law. All this, Sir, was because our superabundant produce was confined to our own markets and consumption. When there is, as at present, a re. munersting price, the system works well enough ; but have they forgot all the alarming predictions of the ruin of the country, which they said was about to take place ? For two years, Sir, wheat was at ll2s. the quarter. Now, Sir, such a fact as this makes the bas. mess of a farmer, instead of the certainty of moderate profit, or at least . a peoviaion against absolute wane, as it used to be,—it it h anw e n y : l e a a re u a lia beol a t i : d te ce n r 2 ta a. in al ties aaea to aer far t : in in ly g. a i l rea ha ta; ve makes it, air, one of the most complete gambling apeculat ons that hc t a t te i li a aan n is t dc o eiem n frai d orb m reaal i has ever been started. Talk of the bubbles, of gold, silver, and already reminded the House wheat In 1822, was 38a. • now, to be tween c h t il h i e ere ma e y x , i f s o ted r au in glit wi he konfetiwie, ru b i u n bb h l i e mines (Hear.) A man now who engages in farming knows not what foully by one year's goal harvest. These facts, Sir, I have advance! , with a certainty of their being correct, and wi th out fear of their being ' disputed. I will suppose, Sir, that the crop next year should fail, Now this could not possibly be correctly known till October. candbeo fissuctufelyateme,yetoytedhartorhdere° this ds Lrftbeeinfaceut'epo,aninddaoansntoha t e t ' i iik nk "formeiathtlinfhort ethilatnatthlgahmttt.'llie might think ent, in the course of this evening, that Our own prospect would then be, at a ruinous expense. to draw price. cßharurg,esofir,lrareeightr.re rlstudlikasorneenthe sa co shw r ip ii i: f isi r n L y th gees e not r a sa h ten a li E si orope. That, Sir, is not the seance ohm is increased, so of co ers urs i e re : e ar b et e so befor e ec, n. a oif v f e t ra hyee ge a" pri a ce fa of ir ro g o l d ? It is all very well for Hon. hlenthers wh o sit down to a good dinner every day, to talk of the average price or provisions. But, Si,, I will suppose the casewhoyf, p::rredmaunce4starove., mg for want for a whole week together, and that at the end or if himself very well off, for that he had receives! a good dam'a provisions for the whole fortnight on the average. m ro l y him,that w an ee d k h p e ro w vi as sion m s ld su i r t e t ir le nt Sir, I do not think it likely the poor man would well be able dt t o huactihe 1 ocomprehendwhoiusihdeidt findh e t h . i logic. tareeh ( asAwl been awueguha asked, k ed. duties on manufactures, we did not also reduce those m corn ? It often happens, that reasoning on apparent analogy leads to was conclusions. Here there exists no analogy. - Nobody ever o .„ tempts to say that we can grow corn as cheaply as it can be done on the continent ; but we can manufacture cheaper ; those we carry to every part of the world. We export thirty millions of menthe tured gene, tint not thirty bushels of corn. Therefore, to a rgue that the protection ought to be the same, Is absurd. There are other differences. The quantity of manufactured goods can be re „ duced if the demand decrease ; but it is not so with the fernier, who having been at great expense to sow his land in a particular manse', becomes a loser if the grain he has prepared his grounds for casts to be in demand. I hope my sentiments will not be mistaken by the manufacturers or merchants, when I assert that wealth is not the only ingredient to be considered in forming the happiness of a country. (Hear, bean.) Ido not wish to change the nature of the Constitution by lowering the influence of the landed interest. I think, Sir, that to be admitted into the data of English landowners is an object of ambition worthy of the talent and industry of thole who have not had the happiness to be born in it. Other interests, let me again say, are to be considered besides the employment of capital—other protection given besides that to the manufacturer. I will not, hoerever t go the length of saying whet the protection ought to be. There must be a limit to our admissioa of foreign corn. This is confessed by all parties, and the only difficulty on the seject, and ...high requires the attention et Government, is to say where the price of labour In this country Is likely to produce such' diminution of profit on capital that would have the effect at driving it away to seek protection, and more advantageous em. ployment in foreign countries. Capital cannot be forced to remain here. lam sure, if Gettlemen consider, they will see that it is to the capital and skill of the country that agriculture owes its present prosperous. condition. II it be drives out of the country we shall loon find that agriculture wail be the great loser. What was it that occasioned the moat high price of all the productions of the soil but the great consumption of that produce by the increased prosperity of the manufacturers ? However successful our machinery might ramie-, us we must remember that the United States had the mine industry as ourselves, machines, and an encouraging Government. The consequence 1 , , that at this present moment there are on their paitange from New York two ships loaded with cotton goods. b, and for the Mediterranean, where, even after the expense of carnage, they would be able to un d erse ll us. We must therefore, Sir, to counterat this, see that the price of provisions, ad in consequence, o f " labour, did not rise too high ; and this, my Honourable Friend the Member for Suffolk (Mr. Gooch) de clares, that thegoud people of London are stuffing themselves with roast beef and plum pudding, from Sunday morning to Satanity night. ((I eat laughter.) Though my Honourable Friend says so, I am sure he is the last man alive to grudge them their goad fare. I would beg of him, however, the next day he attends the Farmers' Club, of which, I believe, he is a member, to take the trouble of asking where all this beet and pudding comes from. (Laughter, and " Hear, hear.") It is no: all the product of the county—is is not all supplied and purchased from those fanners who my Honourable Friend fears most famish, whilst their more fortunate city friends were enjoying all the luxuries of the table. (A !augh.) And what, let me ask the Honourable Member, is to become of those who produce, if the labouring classes are not in a condition to purchase. (Hear, hear.) Sir, there exists a recipro city of interests between the two classes. The agriculturist cannot flourish, without the others also feeling a corresponding improve. meut. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand, I hold it that capital and commerce cannot be put in Motion without serving the agrieulm. rists. (Hear.) It is but just too, Sir, to bear in mind , the profts on capital were never smaller than at the present moment. In en. deavouring, Sir, to some at no distant period to the consideratim of this most important question, all these things should be well and maturely weighed. I trust I have shown sufficient grounds for not entering on it now. We have, Sir already done a great d.al. ( Hear. hear.) We have pursued the high course of itupreennoin and pursued it too, I trust, the right way. Cheers.) We hare removed the restrictive duties from silk, iron, and other articles. These were necessary changes; some inconveniences there may bare hem, and many more there would moat likely be, if all these pro tecting duties were at once removed. But, Sir, there are other said weighty matters which his Majesty's Ministers must hareem doe consideration to, before they come to Parliament with any de finitive proposition respecting the importation of foreign corn; they must be guided in some measure by the policy pursued towards our manufactures by other countries. Of these there are many, sad not the least considerable in ext en t, w h o shut out—obstinately slot out—our manufacture, and ought not we to hold in our hands some thing that might Induce those countries, if it were merely for thOn own interest, to recite the manufactures of England (Cries of " hear, hear.") May wi, in any change that may take place in oar system, mitigate its inconveniences—mconveniences that must be temporary, even to those who dread them mat? Have we not it in our power to say to those countries, We will not admit your ova unless you establish commercial intercourse with us, and re ceive In return our manufactures, (Cheers.) These, Sir, are reasons why we should allow the question to stand over to a future period. I own I am aware of the serious reipon ability which the Ministers of the Crown, or which I take on myself, In calling on Parliament not to legislate on the question during the present session ; for circumstances may aria—circum stances which are beyond the reach of human foresight, and which may make it advisable that name measure had been innate:m.l to regulate the importation of corn. and induce them to regret the re commendation they are now giving "—it is possible that the en's. ing harvest may not Jae abundant. God forbid that I abet& with it were not. The ports may perhaps open--a circumstance that must prove either beneficial or otherwise. Be it one or the other, it must in one case distress the landed interest, ; in the other. it must injure the currency and commerce of the country. (Near, hear.) These, Sir, are inconveniences to which we le sot shut our eyes—these are circumstances which induce us to postpone the question. (Hear.) In deliberating, Sir, on so serious an norm , . there are other interests which claim our attention. and which in common justice we are bound equally to protect. (Hear, hear.) I think there are many circumstances, besides those I have already alluded to, which m a rk the propriety of the recommender:oa I have given. The present, Sir is a time of wild speculation. (Hear.) There are, many and almost daily, fluctuations in foreign merchandise; and it should be remembered, that such periods of extraordinary excitement are usually followed by a stagnance of trade. (Hear, hear.) This may not in the present instance isl e place, nor do I wish to anticipate such a crisis ; at the same titer. I would most strongly urge those who hare the management of the currency of the country, and of the state of circulation. to watch narrowly the state of foreign exchanges, and lend their aid towards stopping such evil consequences, This, Sir, is one odor motive for not at once removing all restrictions, and for net letting loose new schemes of speculation. It is this excess of onoulation whkh Ham anxious to guard against. For this and other reasons, Sir. I am opposed to any alteration in the present laws, until a more dis tant period. I dope they may appear satisfactory to the Beam I have endeavored to state my views as clearly and as fully as I was capable of, and I feel obliged to the House for the attention with which they have honoured me. (Heer, hear.) Mr. A. BARING then rose. The Honourable Member was for a considerable time inaudible in the gallery. We understocd him to say, that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson) speared, from his speech, to have lest sight of the principles advocated by him In 1125. (Hear, hear,) The present system was then main. tamed by him—he was almost its author. Now, however, he came forward to say, that considerable change must tnke pis in the Corn Laws. He had been taught, perhaps, some new thunder. (A Laugh.) Much agitation prevailed on the present subject, and the speech of the Right Honourable Gentleman was calculated to fix the public mind still more. How can the country now say what is the intention of Government ? To follow the arguments of the Right Honourable Gentleman, he (Mr. Baring) was rand) to AdMil chi dieproportioo that existed between the prices of food In this and other: countries. He perfectly conzurred that that dispro. portion pressed heavily on the manufacturing classes ; at the seine time it was his opinion that no period could be so c ! 0 = 1 le taking the present for the whole question into tio - • The country was quiet and calm, resigned from one end to the oho of it. If they left the matter unsettled until the next Section. hod would the landed interest be placed ? They had no certain 1111311$ of knowing what the value of their leases was, or what the value of their property. (Hear, hear.) It was impossible to reconcile such a state of things with the well.being of society. He codicil,' confessed that from the speech of the Right Honourable Gentle man he was not able to ascertain what it was his intention to pro pose next year. If that were the ease with Honourable nlernboi who had heard, in what a state of ignorance must those be who had not that opportunity ? :Shiny petitions had been presented on the subject. When the petitioners asked their Repreentativo " what do Ministers intend doing about the Coin Lawn" what answer, he would ask the House, could Members give? (lm) The Honourable Member, after some further remarks, sari, that when the amount of the protecting duties came before the Row, there was one reason which he would add to the many, why the protection should not be withdrawn at ohm; it was because the landed interest enjoyed it so long ; they therefore should not be let down in a single moment. (Hear, hear.) When the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Hvakisson) said that in France pro visious were twice as high as in this country, he thought he was right in admitting that it was the artificial industry which enabler' us to compete with them ; whenever that extended over this can. try declined, the whole mass of artisans, in millions of_pauperis would he throw on the landed intarest. (Hear, hear.) Thelon" ) classes had one common interest ; if the manufacturing interest were depressed, the agriculturist must suffer. For his own part ; and he candidly declared it, he was inclined to protect the later, It for no other reason but because they had hitherto enjoyed it. It was under that protection all leases had been made; all incum branee had been imposed. (Hear, hear.) A principal 1111900 al leged by the Right Hon Gent, for not then going into the question of the Can Laws, was the accumulation of corn in foreign Per% lie bad bee 182 tr% tem not inl an /I ] at I