The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

! I . e - ‘i.e _ • - i both Houses—indeed, it was eintsiltuting it a corn. plete Act of Parliament. With this great' and, in.' controvertible . authority beforecO t r eyes, can we' hesitate a moment as to the course of proceeding we °tight to pursue ? as to our decision. upon the legal 'mode of filling up the deficiency whiCh now • exists in the Government, and of giving effect to the Royal Authority, when we have thedeliberate rtuction of both Houses span the ease before 'es, not only this, btit . .the .full autliori'ty of the •three branches of the Legislature ? Upon this view of - the case, my Lords, I alit at I lon to conceive . how there can exist any difference of opinion. As t i the question of future proceeding., inweir not at present to observe. I wish that the question of Cie Resolutions now before you should rest upon its owe Merits. I think they involve one of the great: Ma and meat important questions ever discussed to Parliament—they involve the most essential righlt of the Legislature—they involve the most esseurial • rights of the Throne—and in these considerat.ions, they involve every thing most sacred in' the religion of the country, and every thing appertahilkig to the rank and - property of the country. T.:teir adop tion would, in my established conviction, afford the best security fur the welfate and . preipevity of the counter, and afford the must effectuel. pro. tection to the rights and interests 41'1811. Under these /impressions, and upon the' gre.onds upon which I hare trerpassed on the Cooks - dims at such length, I fee: myself perfectly watsitlitcd•, - as well as actuated k ,every consideration-i5:1'4%1440 my Sovereign and t untry, to c2ll upon y4ltr - Lordsbips; by your •0(.4 . 40 give these Resole the 'erect 'auction and at4trity of the Parliament of,tbe (Jailed Kitip' dont of treCat Britain. and Ireland." • Earl STANHOPE rese t 'PrePase ay. Amend ment. to the second ROeolotion. „Ittiseould nut •ote fur that Reselsot'on on the - grounds stated by et*: Noble SecriKary of State (Lord Liverponl). • - complained that he had interrupted him. It Peas not his intention to interrupt the Aloble . .lkarlin the ceursc . nrhis •spoech, hut Merely • W I,o";ind. hlM•at the Moment•that tho doctrine* ho - toying 'down were contrary to Acts of Perlia 7 'tient. ftc stioulti have been purr) , to have inter. rupie4 the Natio Secretary in the course' he was josextringi foeutlbrwisei the,lltiuse Would not have hail the iiiceisare of bearing the strange assertieni, the extraordinary positioni; which the . ploble Sc. etitry had - thought properlo beiniforivard. Great %tress had been laid by the Noble Se6retary on the • Itirtire trt . tive Groat Seal, and he Seemed much 'to re. kir on the authority of. James 11. Their•Lordthips would recollect, that the Great• Seal hail been :Car ried %Kay by tois very Jamb 11. and hence they might be warned of the vigilance with which it was' necessary to guard it. If their Lordships would al. low him, ho would .put a ease:—Suppose a thief to take away the Great Seal ; suppose the Noble Secretary himsdf to 'take it away (ho begged pardon for the supposition), and' to affix it to an instrument creating himself Duke of Flushing ; sumiase him also to affix it to an act for granting to himself k pension to any amount he should think props r , night he not likewise put it to a Bill of In. d-innt , yto screen hitii from the consequences of what he haii been just before doing ? On these points the N,o•le Earl seemed to be very learned indeed, hut nal quite so learned as his legal friend, James 11.. Th- Act of Parliament to which he wished the Noble Seeretars to look, was no less an Act than that for regulating the Succession to the Crown. Let the Noble Secretary refer to the provisions of that Act, and then he would ask him, whether he would bow to the authority of his friend .James 11. in preference to the authority of this Act of Par. liameot ? What authority could the Great Seal carry with it, whets used iu the Blattner which is now intended to be proposed ? Could it live any authority longer than until tire 'successor to the Cr.iwn should give orders to the contrary ? In cased of illness of the Sovereign, he knew of no Act of Parliament which gave that power. • It Isis' ndt In the power of subjects to give it ; and therefore lie considered the Resolution, in its present • state, to be incomplete. The Noble Earl Sere read the Resolution, and proposed to amend it by sub. stituting after the word " require," the following • word.: 46 and until the Lnrds•Spirttual and Tem poral, and Commons, shall have before them sta. cleat and • satelactery proof of the fact, that his Majesty is so far recovered as to be perfectly Cite to discharge all the functions of the Regal Authori. ty." What übjeetion could there be to this? It hail already been decided, that the two Houses were competent to supply the defect in the exercise Of Royal Funotions; that the power resided in the two Rouses, and no where else ; that the Privy Courted had no such power. The only en. ghloity, therefore, to resort to, and to be g u ided hy, was the authority of Parliament. lie might also put the case of a digerence of opinion among the Physi cians —two of them might think that the King was not so well as to be able to discharge the functions of the Sovereign, and others of them, even four, 1111 I 4 t express a different opinion=t hey might even tome to be unanimous on this point—and thch he might ,be thought to.involve no difficulty. This re. minded him of a story told him by Judge Buller, of a conversation with a country Squire and Judge Harnett. The Squire thought there could be no difficulty in discharging the office of Judges, for they had only to decide between black and white. Most certainly there Would be no difficulty in their task,' observed Judgellurnett,' if all they had to do was to distinguish between bla, It and white; hot that was not the case—all the difficulty lay in js u !giug of the greys. Seek would be the emitirrassment of their Lordships - in the present case. The great dif. fit:silty was, to fix the precise thing which the two Houses ought to do, and that they could not de.. Mile upon but by adopting the Amendment be heti just proposed. ' • The Amendment was then read and put, but was negatived without a division. Lord HOLLAND then rose and said: f' My' Lords, I have a few things of note to observe, or to call sour attention decidedly upon : I Have listened to discussions which wandered astray from the im. port of their setting out. In the first•place, I dif fer from the Noble Lord concerning the Resolu. IRMA, nod concerning the mode of conducting the debates which they have occasioned. We wander pligo 'troth tato Ibo dim IWO of abltruct prin. •• - • .:._.. ~It.:. ..... • ,• . • -" • - Kr/in . siklA . . . • •• . z Mph!, cud lothigt otri Way, 'we step. about for Iffilied• with the best authority, practical conic. ought to lay - hold of te make us Eight again. l ocum. I t was not a l on e ne cessary that the autbo. It is both wrong arid 'Unfelt aattempt the discus. rides who made it were known, but it was an sion ot abstract principles. They dazzle only to be. indi s p ens ibl e requ i s it e t o its importance, that its wilder, and shift only to blind us. Such disquhi- effects sh ou ld h ave b e en positively experienced. Th e lions confuse instead of enlightening. us. I shall precedent of 1788 was not, of this description ; make no observarion on the diff e r e nce of opinion while it was supported on one side by Mr. Pitt s existing on the point, whether the right belongs to Lord Qued e n, and the existing Administration , it the Prince, or whether it belongs . ..to these tw watecosinterpoised on the other by the Mi norit e , Houses, the Represenfatives of the People. All whose names he did not think it necessary to tne. the wisdom" and subtleties of Man tend only to floe, but whose abilities were not less eminent than ruin and degenerate s inus mere questions, whilst the suggesters of the measure, (Mr. FUN, Mr . there can only esist one reason why his Rigel Burke , &c.) The Noble Lord (Liverpieol) had 'Highness should he Regent. On this I urge adverted to the precedent of the Irish Parliament, no opinion ; I shall only move some little which he condemned in the most unqualified terms ; amendments on some of the proposed Resole. it was not to be regarded, he said, as deservinfe the anon.. If this motion - should be c a rr i e d, I will slightest degree of attention. Obnoxious, however, ( then deem it proper for Inc to state come further as that precedent might be to the Nettle Lord, and iblervations which I have maturely considered.-- however inconsistent with his present objects, it relit is impossible for me to sit down without Inke had at least to boast, whether a good Or a bad ing notice of some remarks which have come from' precedent, that it accorded with the former pee. the Noble Lord opposite me. The Noble. Lord cecdings of the English Parliament. It• seemed, speaks about the political capacity of the King, however, to be desirable some how or other to get and of his s poweri of actin g in that' capacity ; but rid of the precedent of Ireland, and 'he (Lord the Noble Lord dues not understand thedistinction Holland) felt himself called upon to observe that between them. In all the tonglist of ancient Re. the Committee nominated to -examine the Physi geucies, quoted by the/light Hun; Lord,' can he Mans at the present unfortunate crisis hau been se say the Rights of the Peopro were invaded and de. lecteil with very little respect to the representatives spoiled ? • (Zut; observes the, lion. Peer again, there of:thatenentry ; he believed there had nut been one can bfatO Regent bet .., hy erections of Parliament. •iieghtindividual of the Irish Peerage appointed to Ho* can that be then, for Parliament consists of het. With the Committee ,—(' n ear ! hear ! ]-= The King, larird-hglid Cottoned!, end when the Kingly next'poiest to'which he had to direct the attention Offrce.is..liicanl; some one must be King before they Of their Lordships was the situation of the country call'eled 'a Regent. The samu Lord further ail). as it now stood, cotiteasted with-the State of affairs *serves, that there exists no right in the Heir to, the in 1788. the latter period the kingdom was in Crown to he 'Regent.' It is the true gift of Parlia- a state of perfect peace, there were no internal diei. meat, saes that Noble Lord, and any individual in si o ii to disturb the current of political occurren. en the nation has, and inherits _the 'same right of ces; and although time was taken 'to discuss the claim as the Prince of Wales dots ! As to exercis- measures which it might be most prudent to adopt, ing the rights of Majesty, that full power was ex- the characters of the meet then in power were Mud in favour of the family now on the Throne, too well known to suppose it possible, had the and' is an act of a full and unmutilated Parlia. state of the country. required it, that they would meat ; but though the Noble Lord is content to I have delayed one moment longer than was ab. bestow an the Lords and. Commons the power ; solutely necessary to supply the deficiency in of .nominating a Regent ; but though he is so I the State. He would ask their Lordships what ; profuse he ',hiring power along them, he was now the • view before them ? The dark would seem 'not altogether so liberal in be. clouds of. impending destruction hovered around stuwingit lei others. However 'much I may ap- them ; the gulph of destruction seemed yawning to prove eV restrictions' in penicillin. cases, yet I receive a sinking country which was. to fall the in would net wish ref loek on a Regent, or consider glorious victim of •imbecility ; not the offspring of hint as any thing much . below a King. •It is said, its own weakness, but of the headstrong ignorance that>i Regent has never, in any instance, possessed of a disgraceful faction.—[Ueae• ! hear !]—The Poll powers, and that it is not necessary -he should. Noble Lord (Liverpool) had said that the cotes. Yet for all these considerations, I will say, that no try experienced no inconvenience from the delay argument shall induce nte, to think of loading the which had taken place, in not Ailing the doff. Regent with heavy restrictions, which' would re- cietecy in the Executive Rower. To what end mid him in the execution of Kingly trust. I have could this argument go, but to show the king. been considering the powers of the Crown, and I dam that the Noble Lord and his colleagues had i contend against the whole principle of heavy re. taken upon themselves, without Address, without' !frictions. It insults the Sovereign, and bereave s the authority of Parliament, without the concur.l him of his wonted prerogatives. There have been rence of the State, without the cognizance of Law, instances of Regents Who were restricted in certain and without the sanction of the Sovereign, that offices and kingly trust daring the absence of the power *hick they refused to grant to his Royal King, hut then that people had a King. We are Highness the •Prince of Wales, without a Bill; without one, therefore let the restrictions be light ' without which Bill they alerted his appointment to upon a Regent. What, my Lords, does the se- the Regency would be illegal. Did the Noble cum! Resolutlun say—lt is the duty of Parliament Lord and his colleagues imagine that such conduct to supply kingly absence ; and what is the condo- could pass with impunity? Was it to be enduired , sion, ie cannot do it without asssistance ? that be shouid thualit the open eyes of day, usurp You will find nought exists in our Coustitutien to the Monarchy of the country for purposes too et'. fix this principle.. Let us consider the question we dent to be disguised by the most specious pretekts ? proceed on ; that a Bill be supplied by these two It was-manifest their whole object was to reap as powers to constitute a third': The mode adopted is many advantages for themselves as circurnstancrs i by Bill, and to appoint certain ',croons to affix the would admit, or their own ingenuity could invent s ' Great Seal to it fur kingly assent. This is impel- [hear, hear!] Either the public authority lag these persons to give their assent The seeds of must have been usurped , or the public interests must our sacred liberty were . sown at the Revolution,- have suffered. Did not the Noble Lord well know and along with it sprung the mode of Royal Address,' the circumstances which had occurred under the the form of which was proposed to be Adopted in Portuguese Government in the Brazils, circum. one choice o( a Regent. Now can We make a law, stances which' called for the assistance of this or legislate ourselves ? It was once observed,' that country, and which in the aniline state_ of the 'vie Houses of Parliament had a 'threefold voice, Government could nut be given ? Ile (Lord *aid this very thing we aro now called upon to de- Holland) might be • premature in his advice 'spinal 'fend. If we heirketi to the voice of. learned men, that subject, but ho should certainly recommend an 'it with say that an Act of Parliament is done by amicable mediation between the mother country -the union of three parties; nol it may hes found and its colonies. Was' the Noble Lord ignorant of necessary to act. at times in • the went of a the state of America, and from thence if he turned l third, and this blur present case.”. The his eyes towards the m o veme nts o f the *mire in Noble Lor d then proceeded in a strain .of elo. Portugal, could he deny that amidst the press of Asenco to comment on the various precedents which important considerations in which the character, ho. had' been adverted to in the course of the discussion nour, and future prosperity of the country • were on the very important topic before the Commit. , concerned, it was essential to the vital interests of tee, none of which did ho think applicable to the the State that a substitute should heappointed in the case in question, but that of the Revolution. On room of his Majesty, whose* powers should be len that occasion, the first Acts of the Parliament shackled by limitations, and who should be enabled, was to send an Address to the Prince of Orange, without a moment's delay,to pursue the most prompt requesting him to assume the reigns of Go. and vigorous measures his judgment might point out, ' vernment, reservieg the discussion of such a and the perilous situation of the State might re., measure, as well as the power with which it quire. Much had been said on the unuecessary de. might be expedient to invest him, for a future lay which had taken place at that momentous crisis, consideration. rie line of conduct arose as and many jest animadversions had been uttered. much from the necessity of the times as from a Ile did dot mean to accuse this men or that man sense of that deference and respect which should el ith being pariicularly implicated in that charge, be] paid to a great Prince. If en objection but he would call upon every titan to examine the was held to the mode of 'proceeding by Address, facts that had come out in evidence before the Coin. as strong an objection must be entertained (p.r suittc on the examination. of the, Physicians ; and the mode of proceeding by gilt: The question, he week' ask them to -consult their own hearts and in fact, resolved itself into the simple proposition, say, whether the Royal Authority haul not been ite. whether it was more respectful to his Royal Hio.;11• properly suspended; whether they had nut been en. nese to call t pun hint by way of Address to take trapped by fallacious promises and representations, the Government into his hands, or to fellow the into a concurrence with the wishes of Ministers, course chalked out by the reigning Ministers, and o hose aim and object was att last proved to be proceed by Bill. In his estimation it would. be grounded upon the sole wish to usurp the Royal most expedient to follow the steps of our ancestors, Functions themselves. [hcer, hear 1] to take advantage of the example which stood 'on they their Lordshipi might be fortunate enough; '.'record, with reference to the Prince of Orange, and mote more to see his Majesty seated on his :chrome' `by a -frank, open, and explicit appeal to the Prince amongst them, or Dot, be (Lord Holland) con., sof Wales, call upon him to adopt that situation at ceived that some proceeding should be taken upon'. •the head of affairs, which existing circumstances this subject. [Hear, (tear The usurpation of. rendered so essential to the interests of the Realm. the Royal Authority was in any way en offence ot To follow an opposite course would not alone magnitude, but above all by means aollegitiesse: be ungenerous, but would be treating with un. Their Lordships ware bound thorcfura, whatereti vomited indignity that individual to whom the might be the ultimate course adoptedi-. in duty' Mghest.respect was due. No man would be more to their Sovereign; in defy to the coostry, end. ready t o follow a precedent founded upon constitu. in duty to themselves to subject' the conduct of Mt tional principles than himself; but he neither Could - 'Noble Lord (Liverpool) and his colleaguei to thet nor would agree to any proceeding which was severest scrutiny. [Hear, itser 1] From the founded upon an incomplete transaction. In such evidence adduced before the Committee, and rc r a light - did be regard tie precedent of 1788, which corded in the report before'thc Rouse, it-was pros* had been so extravagantly eulogized, and with that that at a period when his IVlajety was labouring; feeling ho should el 'enin himself criminal, were he under • the effects of his urifortennte milladY934' not to withhold his consent from the motion that ' RoyaUAssent bed been given by Commission from had been submitted to the Committee. A coffin- the Throne of that House to several Public men. tutional precedent was that which received not, sures., 'That was Ofaet le eatraordinary ant! so ia. Orme Om naction of brillioot taitsuir;* but which 1 4cleatiblo that it called loudly fur iurritiption , ' , 7 tit addition to this, eight weeks had bees entered elapse to the eternal shame of the reigning Mot nistration, before any proposition was nud e h i supplying the-deficiency in the Government, Whit the reigning Ministry were reaping the fruits their inordinate ambition and assumed power, t country was left exp ose d to the machinations of conqueror of Europe., and in a situation as dartgp t ous as unprecedented. It would not be teem; fur him to dwell longer on this subject i he trot*" 'he had said enough to convince the Committees' the expediency of proceeding by Address ; sa g „i the truly disgraceful conduct of the Ministry, writ these sentiments he begged leave to propos e , as a l amendment, that after the word " Itesblved l o , th l following words should he inserted : • fs That• his Royal HighaeA the Prince of Wales heist e. mature age s be requested to take upon himself Ike eserme the powers and authorities of the Crown, in tbe amoe and oi the behalf of the King, during the coutiouance of his Majea ) present indisposition, and oo longer. " That an Address, (omitted I/0 a Resolution, he pre< erte i to his Royal Highness the Prince of V►ates. requesting him t take upon himself the Government aforesaid, and that it be the same time and in the same manner commmoiroted to h Royal ifighoesi the Prince of Wider, that Nis further ti opinion of this Committees that it ts ill be expedient so ab, t , from the exercise of all such powers as the immediate esige 'cies of the State shall out call into action, until Parham* shall have passed a Bill or Bills for the (attire cite of his M. jesty's Royal Persim during his Zdrjesty's present indisp o o l i, and triC securing to his Majesty, whenever it shall please vine Providence to restore his health, the resi th , r i e , o f I Itoyal Authority." t t 's in t h i e c a t il t ly i n u e w s w t h i a n w t:he r h e si s a i o Duke of NORFOLK spoke in warn terms the speech which their lords td i l l ii i as i ' l s:s c ou t :d id tat from a Noble Baron (fiord IloHand). Ile eufor r some of the topics connected with that Noll Lord's speech, but from the low tone of his voi it w We as understood iinisussild e h : n o t collect why the two Houses o w t al l' is ar e l r ia;n to t Upon themselves any of the functions of the Et. ebedcusilttiicumlietemei;ezedyelihraicatsitetsletyt my r yi b i d io r: l a lfi t t e l y d( C h h ;e of the functions at : r e f i o s t I hf a e t ty s h r ep e rt s oc li z u emi : d l five, they might •as well order the Regal Sceptre t be put open the — Table, and say there is the K; who is hereafter. to speak through our must Alter advents's to the anaiugy between the p dent' of the ftevolutinu and the proseut period, .concluded Kith supporting the amendment. • HIS ROYAL lIIGIINESS DEW SUSSEX ruse, and with a delivery equal te must celebrated of the orators in either Moue Parliameet, of the primula day, spoke to the teeing effect ; sf My Lurds,--In ,rising to second the m•se of my Noble Friend, I am aware that the his will look with, ealousy to aey propositiste theta c o me from me ; but after the must Washes cat &ration to what has been passing on this oimaii since the commencement of it, I am fatly per waded that . his Majesty's present ministers ix usurped the Royal atuthoriy fosi! the • during which they have octet. ots, this mu tuns occasion. You kare now, Mg,lipetds, a a Mention subject before you, on: vim your Sec Committee has reported to you fasite'siroch deli has prevented you (coin touchiest upon, yew Lordship may recollect that, on a flusher °cosi I ventured to stele my anxiety and hope, that 1 Majesty might soon be in a Mite to supersede i necessity of any deb upon this subject ; upon considering what appears upon the initiates `your Secret Committee, I do think it a sacred alut i imposed on me, and indeed it is my right, to ca I your Lordships' • most serious attentiusi to tip must momentous subject.—ln the first place, m Lorda,l conceive, that I need not repeat that chic has been so well established above a month ago for you derive from youtcommittee for that per as appears by their minutes, by the evidence of di .Physicians in their Report of the state of his Ma jenny!, hyalth, that there has yot been, fur die period; any communication, between the Soma mid his family—you have it likewise, from the Na authority, my Lords—l mean the evidenee of di Physicians, that no branch or member of the Rey fatally has during that period, been permitted to al preach the sacred person of his Majesty. Undersuc ' circumstances, my Lards, and in such condition things, I would venture to ask your Lordsiilie whether you think his Majesty has, at present any free will, or, indeed, any silll at all of his oat Why then, my Lords, can you allow yourselves I be told the country is perfectly safe, because Ili Majesty's Ministers have .exerted themselves in slit a wiener as the exigency of the times acquire ; bu can those Ministers she.. (Wilsey have cowhide themselves, iu the estelee "thick they have elm l their Royal Master gf ereaer r eey part of their eon duct on this occasion - , in . such te, Wise" to jistify themselves, or to satisfy yoeeterrilthil's Who knows that-if :his Majesty • weriell lelsiset t he would have directed tech conduct as his Pew Ministers have observed ? They say he *wild but, my Leeds, I du not assent to their speculaliv conclusions ; and therefore, in the language of On times ) I would say, that if Ministers are thus misrepresent the will of the Sovereign, one bunnies of the Constitution is misrepresented, IS if .this is to pus etiolated by the alba t'",, 4whole of tilofabrie is destreyeple -- v -m 'Lmb, If I hive any idea of the Ceisaitoli° of my country, the Ministers are a set of an end soothing buts set of men, whom his Neje,' tpy his 'Loyal Will and Pleasure, calls Into eelis° the service of the Empire. They Ofei tMer hire, his servants—his confidential taunts entill l ly, because ke reponse trust in thew ; but bd o •soreants, they are to take, bees Post it is their dash teetake, tAL*rection of their Sovereign. ( ii.. Ttrgve him their advice, iu all OK 'Whereto • the welfare sad iaterest of the Pe pie are stisneerned, in which case they are act to the . best of their knowledge aid ,ludgrite r AIWI for which deice, they ere respossible Parliesient.—ln consequence of the eeP.tt ac . • t thtion which his Meister, make fo hoes his :t . cot, constitute them to art, tad fur which a" Seth it , hey are anteereble to the rosPiog• dsity, and such the Tespousibibth of hfinhtrn t 111 / l'gro) =low ;cumin , tha • I AI be be At tl~l ins ~► h La AS Is 31 I . '