The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-05-09 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN. h i m in many respects. Though unable to follow Mm . t h r ough the whole chain of his reasoning, he hoped b e a ould be ante to show himself no unworthy dis ciple. He entirely concurred with him in think* t hst our Constitution was founded on prescription, not on theory. And he entirely dissented from a p which he had often heard laid deism in ill ciciple • oat Rouse and out of it, but by none more fre cooly than by an Hon. Baronet, whom he now saw i;, his Places namely, that the system of reform , o i c i, was sought by him, and those who thought like him, was not innovation. He believed that t b o v,e who judged in this manner were far from distinguishing the whole nature of the question. In cis mind an attempt at such a reform as was wished f or w as one of a purely experimental nature, and hanothing like sound precedent upon which it could be grounded. No plan borrowed from a remote period of society, could be said to be calculated to promote the happiness of society, when much farther advanced, and this was a position which was capable of being demonstrated. The Honourable Baronet would pro bably contend, that he did not seek for innovation, that he only wanted to bring back that which had been. and exhibit a design from times of the Anglo- Saxons or Normans; but surely it ought not to be necessary to show that such a plan would be certainly repugnant to the character and spirit of the present sr. By what he had said, he had endeavoured not to impugn altogether the cause of reform, but to shoe how necesary it was to approach that quest' with every possible (notion. w oul d presentation of. the people were inadequate, he not be forward to thwart any temperate measure which might be wished for the remedy of such an evil. What had been said of the character of the House was well worth the attention which had been bestowed on it. Be ass not unwilling to admit, that his mind could, of necessity, be more or less distorted by the impres sions which, as a party man, he was exposed to re ceive; hut as far as he could be supposed to use his unbiassed judgment, so far would the influence of his opinion he felt, that the House had of late sunk consi derably in the estimation of the people. There were i two points in particular on which a reduction of con fidence was founded. The first was, the open and un blushing defence which had been made of the principle of Parliamentary corruption. When the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and the then Secretary for Fo reign Affairs, had been openly charged with traffick ing for seats is that House, could any thing, he would ask, be more calculated to excite the indigna tion of the people, than the ready acquittal they had found? They had lost much ground also,with the people by the vote on the Walcheren expedition; and as in both these affairs the then interest of Ministers were immediately merged, it was obvious that votes of so corrupt a nature were to be traced to the in fluence of the Crown. What we were therefore chiefly concerned to obtain was an abatement of the influence of the Crown; not any change as to the description of persons who sat in that House. Could any man doubt, for a moment, that therd was at pre sent to be found in it as great a mass of knowledge, talent, and ability of every description as could be introduced by any reform in the representation ? He would repeat that the influence •of the Crown was . the great evil of which we complained. This waif what abated the authority of the House, and aroused the jealousy of the country. He would not pry upon the consequence which might flow from it un der the present set of men in particular ; he did not wish to disparage any set of men, but it. was clear that the most destructive use could be made of such an engine. He wished, therefore, for a diminution of its powers, he wished to see in that assembly a decrease of placemen, and an increase of popular re presentatives. Such a change, however, he could not entertain a hope of seeing, so long as the temper re mains, by which he now perceived the House to be actuated. Even throughout the nation in general there was unfortunately a growing indifference per ceptible to all political concerns, which was, in it' opinion, likely to very much reduce the value of the English character. A set of hereditary notions werel acquiesced in, and an aversion to every improvement cherished, which was highly unworthy of Englishmen. Mr. W. WARD was sure that if the Constitution if England were compared with that of other coun tries, as it had existed, and as it did exist, it would only gain by the comparison. There was no better test of its excellence than the happiness of the peo le who had so long lived under its influence. [Hear, hear!] In taking a view of the prosperity of the people, as constrasted with other countries, it v' ould be found that for the last 20 years, in spite of the wars which had existed, they had risen in power and in greatness, while the whole of the Con tinent had fallen . under foreign conquest and des potism. He did not mean to say that the Constitu tion had reached the acme of perfection, yet he saw no grouse!, for these continued attempts which were made to disgust the people, and render them dissa tisfied with their situation. Where, he would ask, was the nation in the world whose political happi ness was equal to that of Great Britain? While she had scarce tasted the cup of bitterness, the other parts of the world had drank it to the dregs. There was hardly ever a period when cor ruption was so rare in Parliament, when compared with the days of King William and Queen Anne, their most notorious delinquencies were mere venal offences; and yet the great men of that day, whose abilities were well known, had never harboured the idea of having recourse to a fundamental change in the Constitution itself.—ln his opinion the Reform now proposed would have the effect of excluding men of business, and acquainted with finance, from the House. Reformed or unreformed they ntusteon tinue to make great sacrifices, and it would be well if they did not tamper with the Constitution till they overturned the whole fabric of their ancestors. He differed from his Right lion. Friend (Mr. Elliott) as to the increased influence of the Crown. So far from being barely sufficient to carry on the Govern ment, it was felt in every ramification of the State and almost in every family. But it was in vain to talk of Parliamentary Reform as curbing this influence, Which it would rather increase by injuring the aris tocracy, the solid and steady check on the Crown. A morning well spent in Downing-street was worth many nights spent in debate in that House. And, instead of questions being decided by votes of Bo rough Members over the virtuous Patriots and county Members, if they looked to the real state of the fact, they would find that the reverse wa s th e ca s e. lOn the Walcheren Question, for instance, which, in his opinion, ought to have been carried in another way, three out of four of the Members of the City of London voted for the Administration. The re- suit of the argument, then, would be, that London should be disfranchised, or converted into two rot ten Boroughs. He believed, that innovation, so far from producing good, would do great evil. It would introduce a power in the people over the votes and decisions of the House, and the purposes of the Executive. Now, the people were some times violent, and when violent, generally wrong, calling for peace, when peace would be disgraceful ; or for war, when war would be impolitic. On such occasions, the advantage of the House of Com. ntons was most apparent. They spoke the sense of the people, not from day to day, but from pe riod to period —on the aggregate, and not as mo mentarily,inllamed by ignorance or passion. - Not but that public opinion ought to be attended to— the present constitution of Parliament did not en able them to oppose' the public will, but only to se perato the right of appeal to their future judg ments. Another consequence would be, that no man could be in the House, without being of im mense property, or having ingratiated himself with a large body of the people. This would intro duce cabal and disturbances in courting popular prejudices, and the favour of whatever party pre vailed. He could dread nothing more, thasi thus he teach every man, that the west course is pail deal power was popularity, and the effect of which would be, that, instead of such Members as now adorned the Home by their talents, who, by an early life, spent in study and application, had fitted them. selves for the task of legislation, they would have those whose early lives had been spent in procuring local influence, and in mountebank tricks, for the attainment of popularity. When he recalled to me mory, the great names that had, by this means, been first introduced to public life, where they had af terwards been so conspicuously useful, he was not prepared to cut the contaminated soil (as it was stated) from under the feet of all succeeding gene rations. His objection to the proposition was, not bet that some change might not be beneficial, but that the innovation was an invasion upon, with the risk of running through and destroying the whole established order of things. With regard to Scot land, he Would say, that no boon could be more unexpected, than that wished to be bestowed on that country, from which there was not a single Petition, or desire of change in the mode of their 1 1 representation, though Petitions might be got on 1 any subject, and from any place.—[Hear, hear 1 — Their Royal Boroughs might be most ridiculous and anomalous in theory, but they had answered all useful purposes, and returned able and enlight ened men to watch over the interests of the people in Parliament. They were on the worst of all systems : unlike that of Rosseau, for Poland—the Ist, 2d, or 3d Constitutions of France—or any that ever filled the Abbe Sieyes' pigeon-holes : but yet he should not wonder if they survived after all these were forgot, or only remembered with exe cration. It was well to talk of moderate Reform there; but if they went a few paces in the Stable. , rd, what would they hear? Why, a moderate r durst scarcely shew his face in that qua. ter. He would have thought his Hon. Friend (Mrs Brand) had had some experience of this, as he slaW' from a pamphlet published by Mr. Roscoe, in *newt, to his private letter proposing a plan of moderate Reform, which, he trusted, would satisfy every one. Instead of this, he was told, that no•such thing would do, and that at the very first move, every housekeeper at least must have a vote. It was, there. fore, idle to talk of the healing nature of moderate Reform, for nothing short of fundamental and radi cal change would content the party who stood up for this. Concession would only increase the strength of this now poor minority in the country, and no good could result therefrom. They must strug gle for the preservation of the blessings they bad enjoyed; and let them then make their stand on the immemorial usages and practices of their ances tors, and the practical advantages which had been derived from them. If, on the contrary, they acceded to the pitiful cant of being no longer the Commons representing the people, they would laugh at their moderate Reform, despise them, and proceed to the consum mation of their own principles, which were utterly incompatible with those blessings, in the en. joyment of which, they had so long lived. Such coo -1 cession would only be taken as a demonstration of i weakness, and would be sacrificing the interests of the great majority of the people, still true to the Co nsti. I tution and Government of the country. For, with these radical reformers, there might be truce, but there could he no peace. Sir F. BURDETT said, that he felt some burthen thrown upon him in replying to the very elaborate speech of the lion. Gentleman, which was so well de livered, and so agreeably pronounced, In which the Hon. Gentleman had attempted to shew, that the House, as it now stood, and a real Mathis of the people of the country. He shou ld b e to shew, that the lion. Gentleman was not more con• sistent with himself and his own arguments than he had been with all the old recognised constitutional principles. Ile trusted es firmly as the lion. Gentle. man, that by the constitution of the country we would be enabled to hold, or rather to recover, the liberties of the country. The arguments of the Hon. Gentle- man were sometimes its complete contradiction to one another. At one time he contended that the House did act in unison with the sentiments and feelings of the country, and therefore that the representation was a proper one. At another time he said, that if the House were returned in such a manner as really to represent the country, he should apprehend the greatest dangers from such a change in our system. — If that were the case, he must conceive that the.peo. pie were hostile to the interests of the country ; and if so, would he say that the House of Commons in its present state, spoke the sense of the people s-- The Honourable Gentleman feared, that if the House of Commons were better constituted, and more truly represented the people of England, they would be liable to be shaken by every gust of popular opinion. He, for bis part; would always stick up for the right which the Constitution of this country gives to the people, of having their share in the Government. It be Weft Vika what their skim was; he should answer directly, that the election of representatives in the Houseof Commons was the share of the Government to which the people were entitled. Now the House had been told this night, for the first time, that those parts of the Constitution which were hitherto considered the most unsound and rot ten, were, in fact, those from which it derived the most advantages ; and that it was the rotten bo roughs that were to be considered as the soundest parts of the Constitution. [Hear!]: It was from the rotten boroughs, according to the Hon. Gent. that all the men of great information, talents, arid so forth, got iuto Parliament. If, however, the House wished really to know what the state of the representation way he would refer them to a petition presented in I 1793, ankoffered to be proved on evidence at their bar. That petition stated that the majority of that House was returned by twelve or thirteen thousand individuals, the greater part of whom had no property at all, and were not persons who should be even allowed to have votes for the election of Members of Parliament. If this was the real sites-. tion of the representation of this country (and it had been offered to be proved that it was so), hi would say that he hardly knew any form of Govern. ment that he would not prefer to it. He should ra. ther that the Crown was despotic at once, than it should be made despotic by this complicated machi: nery ; which did not alter the despotic power of the Crown, but made it much more expensive to the sub , Jed. ile.nhauld prefer any sort of aristocracy ts t llme net et ; Government . he had described. Without looking to the Statute Book, or thee ancient princi. plea of our Constitution, he would say that the mo dern authorities, and particularly Judge Blackstone, had laid down the right of the people to be fully and fairly represented, in such terms as would be hardly allowable now to use in the „House. A Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Elliott) who spoke early in the debate, ap peared to consider, that to go very far back into the history of our Constitution, for the purpose of al tering its present practice, might be considered as great an innovation as any other. For his part, he would not allow that the Great Charter was an ob solete Act ; bat when he found in addition to that, the opinions of Lord Coke and all the funda. mental writers on the subject, and also Statute after Statute, saying that taxes could not be legally raised but by the consent of the people repro rented in Parliament, and that the elections - should be free and fair—when he saw all those authorities, ancient and modern, by the side of reason and com mon sense, he must say, that it was the Constitution to which the people of this country were entitled, that they should be fully, fairly, and freely repre sented in the Commons Ilonse of Parliament, and that taxes could not be fairly levied but by the con sent of the people, expressed by their real represen tatives. It was said, however, that it was so hard to strike oat a proper plan of reform, that no set of reformers could meet upon the subject without dis agreements among themselves. If this were true, it proved nothing: for would it be said that any other set of men assembled to discuss any other sullied, perfectly agreed in their opinions? When Ministers met, for trxevnple, to consider what taxes were to be raised, could it be supposed their opinions exactly coincided? When they met to plan expeditions, however, it was well known there were differences. [4 lasfeesid cAeeriaga It was not only rtLtiret of Reformers that they must perfectly agree an thur opinions, bet that they should also be much better than other men, and absolutely faultless. Those on the other side of the question conceived themselves enti tled to support all manner of corruptions, if they could but show that the Reformers were not per fectly agreed among themselves, or that they were not absolutely faultless. Montesquieu, and all those writers who had celebrated most the English Consti tution, conceived the chief beauty of it to be, that taxes could not be raised, except by the free consent of the people in Parliament. If the people, then, were not fairly represented in Parliament, they had no opportunity of expressing what was, or what was not, done by their free consent. A Right Hon. Gentleman, now no more, (Mr. Windham) who was possessed of great talents, but who had been one of the most poworipi opposers of the cause of Reform in Parliament, nesor went to the length which the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Ward) had gone to. He never defended rotten boroughs and corruption as things good in themselves; but all his argument was, that the people were so thorough ly corrupted, from the top to the bottom, that he thought'so plan which was proposed could be of any service. He had thought that there was no prevent ing the rich from giving bribes, or the poor from taking them • and that if Miaiaters had net also this power, ;be wheels of Goverment could not go on. Now to him it appeared, that corruption was nothing more than giving an unfair advantage to a part, to the prejudice of thewhole ; and that to give this undue advantage to one, there must be a rob bery of twenty. He conceived that the people could not have more crying evils to complain of than I the corruption of Parliament and the corruption of the repeesentation. Aplust such corruptions our anteaters token drew their swords. It was one of : the seetousi•harges aside against Richard 11. that by rewards and menaces he contrived to influence or. pack a Parliaments He knew that it was always said on the other hand, that we now were getting on much better than our ancestors did ; het it appeared to him, that unless there was a real representation le the country, there was no check at all to the wieestive power; Which was mach the same thing as hating no. Constitution at all. BOOMS be contended Si mods as was in his power, that the people ought ' te have their share in the. Government, was that a Onion why he should be charged with mischievous I I s t at itte u s, by those whose pockets were filled with I the piddle money ? It was somewhat strange that the Hee . Gentleman (Mr. Ward) should have been al ine* eoestantly found in opposition to the measures Ms Majesty's Government, which he now dis liviletto be in unison with the genera l feeling of the [Hear, Bear !j That lion. Gentleman oo given his opinion, that the Government eheil completely disgraced by the Watching &r -adon, but stated that this was not the opinion of the leffilic at tarp. If this Were the cesev who I ought to- be the of thi enedect of his M a jesty's blietaterer d ri l e the Hoooerebie -Geotl me to' .be the sole iedie, &Amid not ibe roes be allowed to judge II 'Skit' roil rep* ~., :~.~s r3i _ . I. • ~r.:~' :r ~ ~.. sentatives ? Eta believed that the lion. Gentleman was quite wrong in his idea of the public feeling upon this Walcheren question, and that there could hardly be found a man who could mention it without a sign, or some expression of deep regret at the numbers of lives sacrificed oa that occasion to no purpose.— [Hear, hear I.] The lion. Gentleman was right in saying that there were many persons who would laugh at what was known in that House by the name of moderate reforr... lie• was certaidly one of those persons who would not be satisfied with what was generally called moderate reform, but who went the whole length of wishing to see the people possessed of that share in the Government which the Constitu tion and the law entitles them to. At the same time he was not one of those captious reformists that would take nothing, if they could not get every thing they wished for. [Hear, hear!] Any meek sure whatsoever appeared to him a reformation of abuses, or an amelioration of the present state of the representation, however short such reform might come of his wishes, should always meet his most cordial support. [Hear, hear!] In talking of the great men who had got into Parliament from the unreformed state of the House, the Honourable Gentleman seemed to have forgotten the many great men who had written and spoken in the cause of re form. He seemed to have forgotten that Lord Hali fax had written in favour of reform, and that Sir William Jones had asserted the right of the people _ _ of England to annual Parliaments and free elections. If the Ron. Gradation had, however, lived is the time of the Refarmation, he would, probably, hate been a decided enemy to it; if he had lived at the time of the Revolution, he must, on his own-prin ciples, have opposed it ; or if he had lived when the Septennial Act was passed, he must have opposed that as a dangerous innovation. This Septennial Act was passed, as most bad measures are, from tem porary alarm. It was then stated, that there was a Popish party struggling for power, which, together with the expence of elections, was then considered a sufficient reason for departing from the ancient Con stitution of the conntry. Would the Hon. Gentle man have opposed the Triennial Act, if he had lived in those times ? The Earl of Devonshire, however, protested against it as unconstitutional ; and the Honourable Gentleman had professed a great admi ration of the Cavendishes, and the Russells. When we came to modern times, it would be recollected, the great Lord Chatham, Mr. Pitt, Mr. Fox, and many men most distinguished for talents, had strongly urged the absolute necessity of reform. He, there fore, conceived that both authority and reason were of the same side, and that the public good im periously required it. The Hon. Gentleman seemed to say, that he would vote for reform in Scotland, if the people expressed a wish for it. Should not he, on his own principles, have only considered whether it was or was not for the public good, without consi dering whether there was a popular demur raised or not ? Ile had allowed that the amount of our expenditure was a grievance, and that the war was a grievance ; but these were grivances not of the House of Commons. In this opinion he, however, totally differed with him. He believed that the war, with its enormous expenditure, was a war of the House of Commons. He believed that that HOllll3 had taken a weak alarm at certain opinions which they feared would make such a progress in this country as to 'enaliigtsi - fitreitatttotlon. He was sent that tkill principle could never have made way, if the people were fairly elected, or if the protection of the coun try had been left to the armed property of it. He conceived that the armed property of the country would be a much stronger protection than a standing army. The Government was said to be a Govern ment of King, Lords, and Commons. He did not know how it could be said to answer that descrip tion, if the Commons were not represented. Who did the House of Commons represent at present ?—. The Members - certainly very faithfully represent those who are their Constituents. There is no mats returned by a patron of a borough who would not he ashamed to vote contrary to his interests or the wishes of the person who sent him into Pediment. He would therefore say, that most of them did faith fully represent those who actually sent them; but when they were to be considered (as was true in theo- I ry, but not in practice) the representatives of the I people, then it was not surprising that their votes should be in direct opposition to the wishes and feel ings of the people. Thinking that any amelioration of the representation would be something gained for the general interests of the country, he should give his cordial support to the present motion. Lord MILTON could not help observing, that the Hon. Baronet was constantly in the habit of talking 1 of the ansient and pure times of the Constitution, and yet be never condescended to specify to what particular period he referred. But he had advised, as a part of his plan of Reform, that the power of ' sending writs to new boroughs should be revested in the hands of the Crown. This was one branch of the renovation which the Hon. Baronet recodnend. ed : but really he (Lord M.) could hardly conceive any thing that would lead more directly to despotism, • than the possession of each a power. With all due ' deference to the superior constitutional knowledge of his Hon. Friend who brought forward this motion he must contend that nothing was mo re unfounded than to suppose. that originally only such boroughs is were large and opulent sent Members to Par liament. The fact was, that while some bo roughs had declined, others had flourished and svown more and what he deduced im rtant; po from all this was, that the state of the borough representation was in point of independence what it bsd been at all periods of our history, and even at those whielt the Hon. Baronet had so often repre- I seated as pure and uncorrupt. The great advantage of the present system was, that there could be found no description of persons in the country who were apt represented in that House. The landed interest, and the commercial interest, with all its various re milleations, had each theieerepeesentation. Under i the present system, the East and Wes t India in. Wrest; haeltheir claims supported. They had . their reertiefeb whom they could speak. is Hon. entre pion went to disfranchise a nuns. ter o f boroagias, and increase the representatives for 1 chanties;" but withall the partiality which be (Lord ]l,.y naturally felt for the landed interest, be should *ink it vary unfortanate for the general prospetlty v ee titer nista in that House. It would seem to 'tip )!~, ~I ,~ 1! , • . .A . • • , ... L . • q , ', . il k . ki i -- - 1 i ' .c •.. ,1 .._..- . ~r.~..... __ .. ..__ / 4 I •101. iii