The Statesman. — London, England, 1813-02-24 00:00:00

'~ f "t 1 l; % ivN • ESJ•I IF r 1 g ( 1 ( After a few words from Mr. Whitbread, Sir J. Shaw, Mr. B. Bathurst, Mr. C. Smith, Messrs.. Gibbs and Baring, the Petition was read, and or dered to lie on the table. The names of the Committee on the Petitions against the return for Stamford, were called over, ♦iz.:—liessrs. James Lowther and Howard, Lord C. Somerset, Messrs. W. Robinson, John Lowther, C. Yorke, and Wharton, Lord L. Gower, Messrs. Dundas and Mellish, Lords Yarmouth and Palmer ston, Mr. Swett and Mr. D. Giddy. The oath, was administired to the Members % who then retitled. Lord 'MILTON asked the lion. Bart. (Sir W. Car tis) whether notice had been given, that Petitions lay for signature; at the Churches in London daring Di vine Service ? Sir W. CUR.TI3 said, he was sorry he could not speak to the feet. Lord MILTON reprobated the practice of applying the Churches, and the time allowed for Divine Ser• sire, to purposes merely Sir S. STEWART presented a Petition from the Protestauts • of the county of Donegal against the CathoPe.. • Mr. FINLAY presented a Petition against the Nonopoly of the. East India Company, from Dom. 111ritio, and a similar one front the merchants and t'ai•nfacturers of Glasgow. House, and present Petitions from the Corpor&ttois• at the bar. The SPEAKER, denied that any authority infe rior to the Crown could open the doors of the House of Commeas. [he ar!] . , Sir J. SHAW modleed his expression, sad insist: ed upon an immemorial usage. After Mr. Akiermatt COMBS had said a few wurds, gr.GR ATTA I N altered Ids Resolution to the following : " That the flight Honourable the Lnrd Mayor of the City of Dublin be admitted to present Petitions of the Lord Mayor and Corporation of the said fly at the ilae of the House. according to.the usages observed in like cases regarding the Sheriffs of the City of London." Mr. C. WYNNE opposed it, and Mr. PEELE and Sir W. CURIE supported it. Lord COCHRANE su;gested an Amendment, by inserting words to allow the same right to the Lord Provost of the City of Edinburgh. Lord CAST LEK EA G II resisted the Amendment; and Lord A. HAMILTON supported it. After some further conversation, thi; question was put upon the Amendment, which was negatived, and Mr. Grattan's Resolution was agreed to without a .1' p , I I),•titioni against the Catholic Claims were pre .su :tot!, from Coventry, by Mr. Butterworth ; from the Protestants of Cavan, by Colonel Barry ; from the Protrstants of the County of Down, !'y Lord ( nolorePgh •, anal him. the Corporation of Bodmyu, ?dr. D. Giddy. The. Srojeatzt at Arms having signified to the Norse that the folle%%iog Gentlemen were in cub •tritly, they were discharged, on paying their fees, viz. : Dl• 144. EJuverie, W. Clive", Cooke, ilantnar, Ta3!or, nod W 4441,4,4 - . The order for taking Mr. Cecil Jenkins - on into custody %%ay. .:i!.chaaged, and leave of absence granted to Mr. C. Jenkitasou for ten days, and to Mr. Mi 1 1.5 for a month. The SPEAKER informed the House that he had received a letter from the Lord Mayor of Dublin,' which, with the permission of the ' House, he would read. The letter was signed by the Lord Mayor, and stated, that he had been deputed to present a Teti. tioa to both Pouscs, from the City of Dublin, on the subject of the Catholic Claims, and begged that the House would permit him to present it at the Bar, as was the custom in the case of the City of London. Mr. GRATTAN said, that though he did not con car in the object of the Petition, yet he concurred with the letter, in the wish, that every honour should be done to the City of Dublin, as the capital of Ire. land, and the second city of the empire. lie should move accordingly, that the Lord Mayor be admitted to present the Petition at the Bar of the House. The motion having been seconded, and Mr.SHAW baying supported the motion, Mr. NYNNE sr.id, that he felt it to be his duty to oppose the motion. In.a case ►ike the pre sent, they must act by precedent, and ►he eastom was, that -though they admitted to their Bar the Sheriffs of the Metropolis ill sihich they held their sittings,they bad never admitted Petitions from anv other Cor poration in the same manner. The City of Edin burgh, which had the same right to demand tills pri vilege as Dublin, had always presented Petitions in the ordinary way, even when the Lord Provost was in London, as in the case of Captain Porteus. As the City of Dublin had never enjoyed this privilege under its own Parliament [lhar ri there was no rea son for granting whit would be rather a burthen than an advantage. Whenever a Petition was presented otherwise than by the Lord Mayor s at their Bar, it would bOsaid the city did not consider it •of import ance ; so that on almost all occasicna the Lord Mayor would ht put to the inconvenience of passing the Channel. Mr. PERLE spoke in favour of the Motion, as it Would be a compliment to the second City in the em. pire, and as the Lord Mayor had already come to London in expectation of it: Mr. TtEItNEY said, he did not see on what grounds the claim was made: if the Lord Mayor had acted hastily in passing theChatinel, that was no rea son for grantinl thi, claim lie had still less ground to stmal on, a: the right had not been possessed under the lri.h Parlimritt. Mr. C. MO.` K said a few words, in a low tone, under the Gallvry, which we were unable to hear. Mr. W. r i IZGERALD spoke in favour of the Mr. WHITBREAD enquired whether, at the period of the exi-enre a the Irish Parlianwnt, the Lord Mayor of I)unlin rjoyed the privilege of pre tenting Petition, at the liar? _ _ _ Mr:FII'ZGERALD replied, that he was unac quainied with ;any instance of the kind. Mr. Tl FAN FA' warned the House against en croachments : the Lord frlayor of Dohlin, on some future occa:ion, snip,ht claim to lay Petitions at the foot of the T;1 cone; The SPEAKER said, that in the case of Petitions bvittg presented by the o; Loll(Ion, the qtr:s_ tine was always put before they were ath:litted ; Dird once, lip belie% ed in the year 1 769, the privilege had been rrfosr,(l. Mr. GILATTAN and the CIL of the ' , aid a few words in explanation. Mr. I'ON.iONBY adverted to the practice that I would he e4fal)lisheil ; if this Pcti:ion were received, might mak the same claim in. fu. Ippt:rta iu tleis , xtrticular insta.aca, was against tho Catholics, he tta:;;atire. remark from Mr. CROItEit and ,OR of Cie EXCliliat!J lait , stran. to withdraw, and the gallery was. bat ;order being re-estah;isked, , said, that the Lord Mayor of Dah possesiott retitioos merely of a local light hr Zirst pruscata,, d the ob ;ht lion . tMr. Ponson q be obviated. 'BY concurred, but resisted a geaerat Rosolution, tit. privilege offerery occasion. i opposed the rrotion. twisted that the sberiit's of the City au undoubted riga to enter the 41. . . •+~.~~.T•~ Weasel I: had the honour,. though unsuccessfully, ple, and legal mode of procind pre s erveeedie. w hfr thhw-e variousiltmeet 44,e0Oghotit of resisting it, and . of supporting the all possible circumstances, and principles for which I now contend. In 1810, the vies branches of would fth he id the Constitution e t i o nd o e f:u ntl p.sc en t t he of u ' l e t a e r u i . lent usurpation was renewed, and that which ought other. It to have been Considered the beacon to warn Ministers thee of the House by noticing the many vague re. from a dangerous coast was mistaken for a sure light ports that have been circulated, as to my intentions to gaide them In safety to harbour. Unfortumetely, and objects in the motion I now bring under from the evidence of the physicians we know, :that consideration. Some persons hate regarded ;t as during the interval betWeen" . l7BB cud 1810 his Ma- if I : acted from a hostile feeling towards the jesty whst ohitirnnes in a state of mild that rendered Prince Regent. All I can say is, the, s far as SO him incompetent to the eonsfderation of (hose im- humble an individual as myself has been cowere ,4 portant matters of policy that naturally devolved in any transactions connected with hi* itoval 11: i upon the Sovereign, and , the person whose duty it . ness it has ever been my wish and my. end atom. tO was to submit them to the King, abstained, in con- do justice towards him, Considering, that his ,s e „. 4 sequence of the distraction of the Royal faculties. [highness was as ill treated as ally 40 . int in are To what degree insanity existed: how far Ministers King's dominions. I always entertnieed a - reap e t presumed, under colour of the ILnyal authority, to for him, and felt a hope, that the Prime , of 4 % i e.; exercise the powers of Majesty, at a time when the possessed a public feeling, whim w ont( viable ;e n; to occupant of the Throne was unable to discharge the discover that his best interests were cenneeted w i t h duties annexed to that exalted station, I cannot pre. the happiness and prosperity o f hi e ki ng e nee tend to say i but 1 cannot help asserting, that from trusted that he would endeavour to Mike the intere , ts the testimony of the physicians there is strong ground of the Crows audits subjects. believiee that his t o believe, that the government of the imam' wascar- was open to conviction. I S . sl::: 4l4wa y s o a t i c e : du , I vied in the memer the King by his servants, at a zealous endeavour, as far as la • - y In my power, to p,t a .. • time when one branch of - the Constitution was inca- blish the throne upon that solid d I ' pacitated by disease. Thus, then, there appears to tion, the a ff ection of the people, ' nr, neer ! have beeh two violent deviations from the established never lost my hope that Lis Ra b at • s.. d Iconstitution, of such a nature, contend, as to be those rights and libert:es, fer tee f . 1 111 C. of THE REGENCY, AND TRE PRINC . V3l CHAR LOTTE subversive of the Throne, and destructive of the se- which his Pointe; was .placed upon the iro ne; ant( • • OF WALES. , 1 curity .of the country. The miserable fiction re. I al*aya'cherheid it my mind a fond exrctati.:n Sir F. BURDETT rose and addressed the Speaker : sorted to.on those occasions, that which has been de- tliat s he mi t e lirove the restorer of the anti O tt in the fallowing terms :---Perhaps, after the most ! nominated the phantom. of royalty, electing and ap.> to that state ilendouv,' dignity, hapeinesse and Wresting topic that has just engaged the attention of t poi n ting an Executive Magistrate, was a deception freedom, which, at the same time that it rptiected • the House for so long a time, sonic npology is ne- . too weak to deceive the most superficial observer: the highest honour upon him, would mete, po s e. r ey cessary on my part for troubling it upon n question to my mind it. seemed a most unnecessary cousecra- look back to his reiee with gratinele and ieser a li ete which regards, not indeed the first Magistrate or a , r iot/ . o f a n act completely illegal, to induce the These are the only feelings I ever iedul e el, ;,,al City, but the First Magistrate of the Empire. It bold Chancellor, without. any adequate autho- these are the mily fallings I new enteltai., d ;or will not be necessary for me, however, long to tres- rity, to at the Great Seal, thereby pretend- the motion I now offer, t have- tfi to horn .) ie . eis pass upon its patience, because the proposition I ; h e r to give the Royal approbation to a measure . of Royal Highness himself, aid Live itothiee.te do, have to submit appeals to me so • plain and simple, wl7ich the King could have no possible cognizance. but to read a passage from that excette it and , :.t that little argument, and few arguments will be ne- ; I could certainly urge many reasons that with pecu- letter written by him, ;n 17h8, to brie g fora ar; 311 cessary to convince Gentlemen of the propriety of liar force call upon the House at the present moment advocate in this cause inlieit.es mere•able to do it adoptieg it, although at this time I feel that I. have to come to a decision as to the mode of proceeding justice than myself. In that i•rui.:Jc:ie , • tt..t•Prnice of to contend with greater difficulties than I should have on a contingency which is possible, though, perhaps, Wales put' *he argument in se s rime / clear, , experienced at any- other period. In every paint of not probable, and which if not provided against tnirahle a mantie• , Plat 1 cami It eratieet-a dew in which this subject can be surveyed, it'ep- i might again place the country in that situation in part of it to the II -.Ai.. Ifs says, •‘ tar' Psieee ieetis pears to me a subject of the highest importance, af- which the majority of this House might usurp and it as an undouht ra ne:l fieelameutal psineiple of fecting the great constitutional interests of the coup- retain all the powers that belong to the Crown : it is the Constitettion, tit tt the poweys and prerogatives try ; involving the restoration of the honour, of the :to prevent on future occasions this lawless assump- of the Crown are vested in trust and for the benefit dignity, and of the security of the throne, as well ; tion of authority, to destroy that pretence of ne- of the people, and they are seeered only as being as the safety and the legal government of its subjects. ! cessity which it is plain never existed, because, in - necessary to preserve that rise and ltaialice of It is not without having endeavoured upon various : truth, by the Constitetion of the Empire, a choice, tine Constitution, upon which esperierice has shown, previous occasions to draw the attention of the of legal re:lie:lies remained. This illegal mode of depeed the true security and liberty (';' the suiject." Members of this house, and of the indiridu Is coo.. proceeding was, however, resolved upon, and the Ills tioyal itieeeess then gee, on to state the mis. posing the Administration of the country, to this house not only took upon itself to ncn,inate t!.e cniefs that mils` ieevita:ity result, from inutitatieg 'ne question ;it is not e ;Olivet having repeatedly, but Executive Magistrate—not only, err its own auteo. pi erogatives of t'.' Clown, and tieitine, ~u spic:on in in vain, attempted to induce some other ie.lividual rity, resolved to supply a Throne, which I insist the reed or the Miveireh ; he also neikes valiees of more weight and infleence than I can pretend to , Wes not, and never could be, vacant—but it %relit other comnlaiats, led Lc iletermioee, Celt yelling possess, to bring it forward ; it is not without hay- still further, and usurped the power of declaring but the anxieus dt sire he feels to put an end to tee lug twice, hut in vain, proposed Addresses to the that Restrictions should be placed upon the yrson tearcity then prevailing, c.uull 'lettuce hie' to over. Niece Regent, upon a matter so deeply interestiliv they steeled to invest with some of the.prerogatives come his objections, and to try tea: experiment w 'to his family, to his throne, and to his people, that of the Crown, all of which' were bestowed by the he deprecates, " with how. little power the Execetive I at length have ventured upon a task to which ' I feel Comnon Law, for the benefit of the People.-- Government of the collate> ru n ty be (-err; d myself so unequal. Finding none willing to take They proceeded so far in their assumption of Unfortunatel, since :11- date of this letter, needier upon themselves the burden, I may be e ettsed, if I ! authority, that the Prince of Wales was un- ftpei•rmentlas bee:, tried• •tris person, eede , cir have considered it an imperious duty I owed to Re wi.ang, under ,such conditions, to take upon him- cumstanCes most disrespectfial to his i:oa 1 flightless people of Great Britain, to call the attention Of self the task of Government. In that able letter and injurious to the public ; to prevent; I heiefere, the Parliament to a subject of the weightiest magni- written by his Koval Highness in the year 1788, recurrence of such events ; to provide aeliest appe'ars to me that violent encroach- I in which he so distinctly, accurately, and perspi- gencies ; to preserve that " poise end balance of the mesas have been made upon the legal Constitution of cuously stated the principle s of the C ons tit u tion, Constitution upon ehicheeperieece has stem depeeds ithis country, by those measures that have been and the i n s u rmountable o bj ec tion, e x isti n g in his the true security and liberty of the subjeet," awl to adopted in consequence of the unfortunate afilic- mind to the mode of proceeding sugeested, he at defeat the userpations of Ihe Legi-f'ature, in opposition Ilion under which his Majesty is suffering. The first hetet!' consents to act as Regent, with no other to a particular statute, by which a vie-nun/re is in. encroachment occurred in the year 1788, the whole view than putting a period to the anarchy that pre. curred by these who attempt to pass any measure with lof which Proceedings always appeared to me an veiled, conceiving that• the evils resulting from this out the consent of the is my design. I wish unwarrantable departure from the principles of the line o f con duct would be l e ss th an th os e that .to interpose such a 8.11 that Parlisment shall never Constitution, a n d tbou g i, I should be unwilling might arise from the continued abeyance of the third pass any measure, and on its own authority ceder to introduce any thing of personal animadversion, branch of the Constitution : lie accepted the knee- the Chancellor to affix what I must term the counter ! though Ido not wish to attribute blame to any indis ly power, mutilated as it was, rather than permit feit Great S.sal to it, fur the purpose of gluing it an victual, yet I cannot avoid i n gener al te r ms assert- the Constitution to be further mutilated. I have authority and sanctity which does not and never • ing, that those proceedings seemed to me to origiate said, that I could urge reasons that peculiarly call can belong to it. It would have been, I teilik, much in the violence of faction, and to have been sue- upon the House to adopt a measure like that i shall ; more becoming to have supported the ettactmeet, oa ' ported and adopted wl4h no other view than to isrep hum' the honour of suggesting; but lam unwilling the authority of the Legisleeure,* without resorting to Power ill the hands of the party then in office, wid. now t o entt..r into any p e culiarities of situation. I t trick mid chicanery for its' ineititetianc.•. Various out any regard to the interests of the state, ' shall leave the minds of Gentlemen to suggest those are the reasons that impel me to !vale forw.ed this respect to the legal Government of the country.— inducements, only entreating them to recollect, that propositicu; but if it be true, as is pr -tty generally ' [Hear, hear!]—At that period the constitutional the ereatest evil, the most dreadful calamity that believed, that certain great individuals, by different and safe, though not the successful doctrine, was • th e history of this country presents, arose out of 'imeans, place their dependents iti this nous?, it b'- maintained .on the can side, that upon failure of a dispute re;alding the succession of the Crown, , comes a matter -of double importance that a Bill the capacity of the person filling the throne, the • and by not docided!Y maintaining the Constitution as I should be passed to restrain such individuals ft om exercise of the functions of royalty o u g ht t o d e _ i t has been happily established in this respect, con- usurping and exercising illegal power; to remove a voice upon the heir apparent. On the cult& It pe que nces e q ually fatal, calamities equally horrible, new motive for ambition; to show that the Crows this simple and obvious position was denied, and it again be endured. My object is to guard ,is not to become the prey of greedy cormorants, and • was insisted that the heir apparent to the C r ow n had aga inst such results ; and the House is called upon • that factions must not hope to deck themselves in no more right to the Government of the s t ation than by a proper sense of its duty to guard.the people of ; the spoils of Royalty.,--Ltlear, hear 13—What, • any private individual. In the strict legal eccepta- these realms against circumstances that • may enable : therefore, I should propose would be, that the ti" of the word rieseif, tt.ere certainly was no the Minister of the day, on a pretended plea powers now exercised by the Prince Regent should, because there was no law, and where there is no law ,of necessity, to subvert the Constitution, and ia case of the death er disability of his Roy al High there can be no right; but upon parity of reason- 'to destroy the Government under which they / ness, he exercieed by the heir to the . Crown, the upon every • principle of propriety. •and are -p'eveett.—[Hetere hear !)--Stith- -is the the Princess Chvriotteof Wales. I -knoiv not whe lexpediency, there could he no doubt of the line object of the motion with which I shall con- ther Gentlemen have any elsjeceon to this mode of conduct that might to be pursued : nothing could elude ; but at the same time I have taken care, !of proceeding, or 'whether they think her Royal be more obvifius than to follow that example, to by the general terms I have employed, not to Highness an unfit person to wield the sceptre ill which the faction seemed blind, that had been set tie down the House to any distinct proposition, case of the incapacity of the Prince of Wales, I On at the glorious Bevolutimein 1685, If the pro. that may to me appear necessary, and 'which 1 ; not determiae, though I confess I see no reesou ceediegs of Parliament had been governed by that shall feel it my duty to suggest. My motion will ,to the contrary I. but I shall merely submit the wholesome precedent, Ministers would not have been simply he for leave to bring ha a Bill to provide for motion, mid after leave has been Oven that the Bill allowed for five months to take into their own hands . the Regency, in ease of the death of his Royal High- shall be brought In I shall•leave it to firehouse to the Government of this country; 'instead of an . ness the Prince Regent, living the King; out I have , modify ;Las they conceive will be most Conducive to odious oligarchy for that period being established by no hesitation in stating, that in my view, it will be the public interest. All I wish is, that factions the executive, there would have been no suspesisien right to give t o the Regent powers as uncontroultsd . should not hale the power to till the throne with of the powers of the Crown, no departure from the as those that belong to the King himself : it is of the whom they please, and under .what conditions fluty leading principles of the Constitution. The steps, utmost consequence that this.point should be settled, please.—[Hear, hear!]—l wish to avoid cense-. however, taken in 1783 nose justified ou the plea of since the insanity of the Sovereign is to all intents and quences to which we have been es posed, at least by necessity. I have been always taught to believe, purposes the same as his natural decease. I have al- • want of foresight, if not by something worse. I pre that the exercise of the functions of the Crown form- . ways understood that the office of King is not, ac- sumo I shall not be told by the Genteeaen of the toile ed an essential part of the Constitution; I have been cording to the ConstitutiOn, exercised for the benefit• robe that the Princess. Charlotte of Wales is n et of a:W4P taught to believe that there are two grand of the individual filling the throne, but that it Was a sufficient age, because -the common law, as f . " leading itriqcipks that govern, in my opinion, the trust exercised for the advantage of the subjects, and as relates to the Crown, knows no Willies', ass" WhOlt' of this question--lst. nut the powers and in this view it is of great consequence that it should grants may be produced; d its preroestives amiesees by the common law to the never cease : it is a principle which none of the gen- such situations, that have been held by lawyers to Crowe, and which I coaeeire to be emu' estronable, tlemen of the long robe (of whom we have massy in be absolutely bindine • the secerity the puidie re le • descend by hereditary succession, an d not by elec4 this (louse) will dispute, that the Crown, according quires is, that there shall always be an Execctive tion.--2d. That the Crown is never Ilesueutlod; the - to the ornneon law, knows neither infancy. nor Goieviinient, zealous ill the eischarge of its duties. 'functions of royalty never come for if they were sanity, nor any other cause that can incapacitate the and responsible, not only for the ac;s done, but for for may period terminated it would be destr u ction * person holding it to discharge his impOrtant duties, .the advice they , give.. The H ou se %ere .at present of one part of the three essential branches of the and if such cause .do 'exist, it must be viewed in relieved from all di ffi culty Constitution, and a total revolut ion of the legal. the, same light, and treated in the same way, as of the heir-epps,sent, Royal Highness .s Gperiod to which I have re.. Government. At the (vizier; from the youth Constitution, the natural death of the Monasch. If insanity now in the Lids yea r of her age, and censeiptetitly ferred, it appears' to me that these two tercet lead- should unhappily visit the 'Sovereign, the Beano- perfectly capable of exercising 'he Royal aut`ie.. ing principle's were unnecessarily and imu arrant- My. I submit, by law of the • lead, linmetihite. cit He would be told, senile pi, that en the c'eA ~ ably departed from. The great ilaotter resulting devolves upon the successor, without the niter- He Majesty, mind le. Royal tee . , from once admitting the Pica of ti'esarst°V is ob- ferenCe, tunas lees without th e election•ef any set of niece t'eegetit % the lineeS • weu!l then lie in the p+- Opus, front subsequent experience, fn hi the year pent - enithat may be_ toitions to usurp powers that to 'session of •.t u__ tower this was no arz . m A 1810' this mischievous precedent was folfewctl, al- 'thew do not belong. Midi's the piain,esevious, sins- uealast the measure. lie did net think it woJJ • - cla City of ture : if it +t e•t! sat because is Petitie: s!lotell give it :tis d. After a bin e the C NeI , ;I 4 LC ger, were ordered Lt partially eloared; Mr. PEELE sa lin had in hia poi tb stature, whkli snis Section of the Rigl by) tvouje, thereby • • Mr. I'ONSONI Mr. TIP:HAP:I yJ acknowledging Ow t Lord Mt Sir . 511,4 %V *s of hoodoo had a _ .