The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-11-30 00:00:00

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DEN, President of the Council, .ac.. jo t ih it Lordship s, that the Physicians op a.ft to a ttend his Majesty had been examined, . went o the Report, which, upon the motion iv purpose, being put, was real by the Clerk. o ilich see Proceedings. of the House of Com. pi Earl of LIVERPOOL then rose and said, is consegnettee of theßepori which their Lord. t Mad jo,t heard read. Ite-fel4 it hit dity•to ea m otion, in which , ho•and kis Majitstea-mm. nitlt w hoitr'Ne r ldif tfi ittlarnir to tot, • bail,: at commencement of the melancholy subject • c ame under their Lordships consideration, laded themselves, and slotold still conduct lies, as ucarly as the different circumstances W & Ind, according to the precedents which oc. for their guidance in the years 1788'and to the year 1788, when the Report of the • as was laid Implore the two nooses of Par t, the state of his Majesty's health had been ks fmostalde Ibis- it was now, and had much l o nger, and yet an adjoornmetit for a r period thus that which he should have the oar of proposing, took place. Ile concluded waits; an adjinaramont to Thu rsda) , the 13th of K ober. EatISPENCER. said, ho should not enter, on r pre sentee:es:lan, into that wide extent of la rk sad aui•tiadversion which the present motion gusted. But he could not accede to a measure a.h appeared to him as being not warranted by Ism or spirit of the Constitution. The Blouse .assembled merely as one of the states of the 533 not authorised to act, except upon the soslof strong and imperious necessity. When gebt of November the House mot, there was. :bride attendance, and.open that account and .it+ - jot communicated . coming somewhat sad. up pea their Lordships, the ;notion ofndjourn ..,t f ur a fortuight was complied with. But n•:‘ , at the two louses were again assembled they tte still incompetent to act. without the Crowd. not'lle for adjournment on the 15th rested I t i elletlaration of the Noble and Learned urns the woolsack ; but highly respect;:ble that authority unquestionably was, it di•l. not ustiow a proper Ot suffiaimt fonudation f.or I.eolAlps' prooemlimenee-Assme • liege:nen* • of duhrary had been urged : but neither d; nor Joy other consideration, could warrant Lordships in acting as a body, without the pl sanelion, or their being held together as they sere, in defiance .oF the Constitution, Hits J•sip strenuously maintained, .abet - it was als., Dilly necessary of ascertaining the neeessity,.aud flag it rerorilrd on the Journals, of any motion for . Pynnvent, according to the precedent before iP tie year 1788. The report of the Privy ucil, he considered by no means a sufficient do. meat to found such a proceeding upnn. One (Illy Lad been stated in the report of the Physi c, and that was, the melancholy one of the Ig't; incapacity. To give the statement _of that WI:lily, it should. he entered on the Journals. L'rdshie concluded by moving, that a Commit. of Lordships be appended to examine the piriarts touching the state of his Majesty's health, to report the result of suohexarnination. to the ie. • Earl 510111 A observed, that when their Lord tp‘ last met, he bad felt it his duty to second the en made by the Noble Secretary of State adiwaument, but he did so on the precise Ad condition that the essential - forms of ntdingwhich the peculiar circumstances of t moment appeared to justify the want of, ho effectually stipplied ; awl because though raw nut admit that such a course of proceed. 1 1 12$ entirely without - danger, he did nut con : that the danger 'was of a magnitude to super.. e tit. other considerations, immediately pressing the minds of their Lordships' considecatious, obis; all the syrhintibies of afflicted and . pious flee, sad for the indulgence of wltieb some sa. ee Grunt senience might not improperly be yield. anti themeasure even then was not unaccompa. Oh danger, the clangor arising now from the 'esti further prorogation, ha considered preg t COI serious and alarming danger.. With re. :t to the report which had been road from the l'it s aas, Ministers c4uld deduce nothingtraga its ground of speculation. They . had' spays of famq, bet they were ipeenlationamorely. Ilia 411 4 could not give his Tote to/ the motion of Noble Secretary, without fdrfeiting till title to confidence and opinion of the Nor lU the Miniaters themselves, even had tbaY all ileptilarity of which they are notorlously.des q*, eselp t ; the heavy censure of all men, who at all conversant with the nature and villei n( the constitotion. Ills Lordship concltidtd Ile should Conan) , support the pro. In of his Noble Friend (Earl Spencer). rd 11 A RitO'WHY contended - tbat M blister's °"ie'tly been accusal. of departing from the "ti , Jr the pr e c e d en ts width had been afforded 'kir conduct in the'.arts of 1788. H kola t ots Majesty's servants, in acting as the bad 1 %era assuming any endue powers. 11" the ors 'from the suspension of. the Royal fufietioos heat, those dangers bad oceurred before, algid e „, 4 "'"I'.%•1 1 against-by measures simlier to th ose .1 '" had now been tam. A sospatsion Ora. Al (unctions was not a &Solution l . pod Oder a 4 1 i. 4 00 0* btt, row' such a temporary suspension the afairyor - govertt. • molt might go op without injury for a certain time. The motion of his Noble Friend was* meant to or. ford. the most satisfactoryloformation to their l e Ord. ships *nod to'thl country, lid io thi well-founded hope, that there may be no necessity for - setting aside the monarchy.—perc ifteie was a loud cry' of .Order Lord GRENVILLE gm aptonished al what he ha' heard frOas the troble Load, which iso.cohli dered as highti Uneonstiotiunai. Lord HARROWLlTexplithesi, and atteidtieniog on the virtue& displayed ivy his kliksty during his long reign, and expressed his ardent hopes . that he. would soon berestored to the wishes of an., attic. ilea* and intern" people, and concluded with ituisivvietiot tivO motion of , his Kale FliattiALOrd 14verpn61). • •••• • Lord lIOLLA,ND expressed. himself with' great warmth at the unparliamentary .tnanner in• which the Noble Lord who had spoken had introduced the King's name. His Lordship adverted to the vote which he had given at the last meeting of the House in favour of ibe . Noble Steretary. of State's motion, bat strenunusiy.Maintained the propriety of having' a more substantsi ground for their proceedings than that which was furnished from the Privy Council; and agreed in the proposition of his Noble • Friend (Lord Spencer). Lord HARROW BY explained . . The Marquis of A BEH,CORN defended the cx. preqionv, made use of by'', .rd Ifirrow by, and es. pecially the use of the King's name, on the ground that his Majesty was the direct and immediate sub. ject of debate. Lord HOLLAND. again rose to order, and maintained . that the mode iu which his Majesty's name had been brought forward was . unparliamca. tary. ' .": . .. , Lord WESTMORELAND defended the 'con: duet of Ministers,' and challenged the former Ad. asiAlstration to show, b any of their acts, a greater ;eat and - diligent! lit the eaercitie of their public functions than. had been used by them. Ile sup polled the motion uf. Lord Livetpool. Laid DARNLEY. opposed the adjotommentood suppotted the yenpositliiis of Lord Spencer. Llink %RENY! LLE..--. 44 My 1•Ontill it would his: l o'l44.n much more satistictery to - ma •before I It osti to address you, to hate heard the opinions of your" Lordeb n ips mote at large, and still More satis- . factory White bees hcipiaitsted with the.argnalasts which his Aaiesty's Ministers could 't4*s prodtesiV ' io' order - to itiolobe your Lordships to, accede to the Asberswdry now- recommend i sod in, so doing to Stillndunyoar moot sacred duties—to turn your backs upon pane toiiiitry. But I must own, that 1 am not snsprised at the tout absence of any thins like argu meat, when 1 consider the extraordinary nature of tke propositign teat the Noble ,Lords opposite submit 1•to•y our adoption—a proposition most derogatory to ilhe dignity of Parliament, hostile to the bent interests l'of the Monarchy,. and repugnant to every principle of the 'Censtitetien. Whim I this dayentered j our I.l.onedahips* House, I dick entertaiu the kooe, that as from the 'pressure of the public concerns ~- -fronv " the particular - delay of the immediate quesiiotOtsolf, . unanimity was most desirable—such' a *conisa . 'of proasaillg would . be proposed. as tended to ; pod. ;mete an unanimans acquiescence. It was owlet Abe influence of similar `feelings and actuated • toy • arch w,iSlle9, that Ilirotight myself,. on the former dayti when.we weir Jut assembled, to my stricter judgment, and for the sake 01 unotiiinityi ro consent to thepopdsed adjournments bill bethe same nide enee that I then attribute the decision of your Lordships; fur nothing can induce me to believe it possible that any other motive conic{ have swayed you to put Such a slain upon youi duties; such a force upon your consciences as that decision most unquestionably was. NVlin, then, could have sup posed that on •this night, upon much worse grounds, the, same persons would have called upon your " Lordships to yield to a similar proposition, and once muse to rel•inguish the paramount obligations which. you owe to yourselves, your douutry, and your So- ' vereign ? If Ministers had 'pretfetermined upon this surreptitious course; if knowingl,.• they had formed .thedcvice of converting your former acquiescence into : grounds for a future precedent, then 1 must say that they have not alone been guilty of great disingenuous- , nest, but have been implicated in a very criminal - and treaoherous'proceediug. ' Eor what have we heard this night in • support of their. proposition ? Not iatisfied simply with recommending such a ' .course to our ail Option, they venture to justify it ,upon ouvown proceedings on a former -occasion: Adjourn now, say they, because you hero ad ,juittiled this day fortnight. To what esteut l il ask, 'is It determined to carry thistrgionent ? Is there, n 4 LordS, one suiitary ground on which stands the Oro- priaty of the adjournment proposed. this night, that . will not beequally conclu,sivefor adjournment to sec -emit! adjournment ? Is this [louse prepared to accede to such doctrine? and upon grounds so ,derogatory to its character and interests to abdicate its. most sa- ,ered and important functions ?. The Noble. Lords lippusite'admit that those exists in the estates of the realm the power to supply any deficiency in the exercise of the Itlyal functions, yet in the same tuice they ask you to disregard the right. • They ask you to convince the country that what libel: lees on the constitution -have dared to propagate , is (true in fact...-to be yourselves the strong examples, that the wisdom s power*, and influence of Parliament are but empty, -sounds-..that the salutary and controuling power of the two de liberative branches of the Legislature has degene rated into, mere shadow—that all vitality is banish ed from &monst us, and that the whole.power of Gulurcurstut is , ceutereti lu a duten of Cabinet ..'rii.' J . who.exeriise the Executive Functiiinsu4fet. tered by the decision. of .yftur Lordships and the' Wirer estate of the reefeyon4, at ,it now appears, ledepeudeel of the will or 'pellet% of your Suer. reign. [ filar I hear Stucli being my feelings upon that part of the anhjeet t it . was with reluctance that I give my acquiescence to Alte motion foe adjourn. aunt on a former oceasiim--to do so this night; my conscience tells me would be a base dereliction of my duly. 'But, my Lords, they deceive you when they Xll pis that you are 614 night to decide upon this 1490 under the same ctrrotostanees 'der width yea en the last occasion acceded to the last tldjournment. This was tfie main part of the .argutnesi et the Noble Loyd who has now iiroposed a simliar isetmite, ditit L deny l iti 'propriety • I conterld"iiiir otatetiilly 7 o,Ciittnt, 'inisioaioh as we are saw in possession of that nf h&b. sse wore then uninformed, namely, the ineapa. city of Lite Sovereign to meet or communicate •__ with his Parliament. his true chat an individual in this H.ouse, most deservedly high in station and talents, did, as a witness filly the report of others, convey something of the kind ; but not in such a .way as, upon any principle of law or the Constitution, could be considered , by your Lordships a conclusive evidence upon which to found any ulterior pro. reeding. I argued then as 1 argue now, and there was at that time no objection made, that before this House could proceed to do any one act, assembled as it was under such staicting circumstances, it must have essabltstsed the personal incapacity of the ., King. lice* stand we at this moment ? The No.' ble Lord opposite says, we arc n.ow arrived at the fact wpon which we are at liberty to exercise our dis. cretion. I deny it. We aro in possession of no fact by means which your Lordship can constitutionally recognize. But thee we are in possession of infor. 'nation, imparted. to us by the examation of his Ala. jesty's Physiciaus by the Privy Council. The Privy Councii c how contested/ Conecned, spy Lords, with., out the 'consent, the ktrowkage, tile summons of the 'King. [fkar, hear If such doctrine .at this is to he tolerated in this house, I must Berl that your Lordships would afford your sanction •to principles most, hostile to those upon which the Monarchy stand, and which, though not re. publican, lead at once to the establishment of the pi ost odiods Aristocracy. In the Stales of the Healm alone is fixed the power ; and even they can. out stir a step = much less, abdicate their functions, until they shall have establed,oe their own X . ousnals, that incapacity. ;cern that point is ascertaioad yon . 1111111 no discretion to cauteise. Withal.; lekthilkii. neither right nor power toact at all.—' "tan ate letteted* by the authority , • every 'lair s and the Influence of every COnstjtuttetuti principle: .11eitgrientingthat your Lordships were at liberty to, exercise'.yeur discretiOn in 'the absence of that neeesserld, consiilor the situation in which Lyste . stand. -Noble Lord milli) upon you to ex. crime your discretion withuitt exatbiniitg I.". those.' circitidstance*, withonea knowledge of which k is int p intsible f your.LordS hips - to deed any discretion. it all But they tell ns that theroexists two tniterial reasons fur coneurrlngwith their present proposition, first, ileat r therchis taken plaCe since'the Outman:cc.. 'tient df the King's inn*, 'a Mateti'al amendinent in histisorder; and secondly, that it has nut been of is long duration as it was when The States of -the' R,ealitt before priseeeded to ttipply ,the deficiency, in the• exercise of the KtieglY - functions: 'of eitette recta's's* - depeededs utson' s by the risible Lords, deny 'that this Houie possesses iagal, or ronsti.. Antioletil knOtelecfgo,.' - 11ihyV that the'.t'civy coon. 'ell, which viatteired ite'esaXesn'eh a coMunanication to the; Outiotry, ited'eti patlestiona, concerning the capacity or incattecity eir &wedge, or his *robable atneodinetit s have exceActi all their due potitn . s x end usurpl an authority which did nut belong to them. They have dune so in the teeth of the precedent of 1789. When 1 first heard such questions pot, I was struck with wonder es to the inotires which could have induced them to pursue such a course, I confess, my -Lords, I did then little eiPect that it was inteuded; as I flow see it -was, siereptitiously.to beg d ground, for this. pro ceeding. But at all molts, I sin convinced, that • these are points which,' foe this House . to know, it must itself exsinine.• ft is a course upheld by every analogy of reashhinL andofiaw, : not to • pass judgment upon faces without yoneselles having examined into the nature of the ovidence upon which they rest. Lot admitting that the reporkciliofor. !nation were. duly Itetuke the firtuie„ let every man, my Lords; ,itho refers, ltishand upon his heart, and state the judgmenfto which, upon suoh groun d s, he . can form.. God knows there is tiotimongst the . affectionatetitNeets or my .Sovereige an individuals who snore unfeignedly sympathizes In Sufferings; • or Would more -sincerely teal eiie in kis restoration r but' must say, that of the Report that 103 been rett4, thrc is nothing. positive. 'or conclusive in' the tern es; either as they !Fere asked -Or sees were& The Introdue. tiros of the word, V amendment" is merely relative. Ito. are not toU Of Any itinueedencitt within'atti slie cified or prOdatile time. Their is icit, my L9rOf f Within th 4 kingdom, •to be found, PA. ordinary Magistrate w,.1i0• would set upon liiffirination such solaituer cotettounicated, w theta first' ascer taining the fact upon •feill aid propel' grounds of. evidence. But even though, it were true and po sitive, 'lt teas, not, been ascertained by ;out Lewd- Ship!, bett yy 4 ' Privy Canuc.l ' whose "very priuci phis of action were in contradiction -to,. tke spirit - and priariplei the constitution. W o o if it 'should also be. the pace, that insch.Coencil sloth - misty coefined , thernsaves to a poly exieeina toed Not, so .eras. 'the course pursued by those asipispti • the proceedings iti ~the year:‘l7B9. At " .that period a reference wit made to the. Privy ! • • • Council, for the purpose only of obtaining the' most formal and authentic statement of the fact; to this point their pe,wer was limited, and they of course proceeded to make their Report without furtheeaamittation. But at this (lay we behold cis authority limited try law, exerediag every pewee . and every prittilege attaching to them, and the ex cess of such authority subseyaently made the amend- - by . Ministeva for the conenrrence of Parliament to their proposition. Let in ask, of w'. it value can the Report of that burly be with your Liirdthil;s, whichyvessfeaes. to put itself in a state of sovereigety • above yesir Monarch ? And here I beg leave to say one word-to the Noble Earl (Liverpoolr opposite, in iefestabee to t!eu ;Observations whiclrfell from him re. • strit!tat thimltedipfesasittowsomied Whistle!? oft ii at great matlisi-abliaelimortte.:ll4t-dommettes proposed' ' by the servants of the crown, its the year 1789. It dues so happen, by Me decree* of Providence, that of all* those distinguished persons who sat in the Cabinet of that day, there is left in this 1 world hut one individual remaining to defend their i measures and explain their motives. I believe I there is. no man now in existence more capable of stating the principles that governed my illus. trious departed friend (Mr. Pitt), the motives by which be was actuated, or the great and important objects to which his exertions were directed. If I were willing to. take advantage of the knowledge which I must have of all the circumstances of that period, I might strengthen, even by such examples, the course I now pursue; but, my Lords, when I feel it right to abstain from such a hue of conduct, 'it is hard that those not in possession of such know. rage, should now form and communicate opinions . on etie events of that illy, not founded upon the public proceedings of the period, but upon sup. posed intentions. During the discussions of that period r there never was a word insiutsafed to convey that the Report of the Privy Council was sufficient - to enable the States of the Realm to form a •judg.. -ment. I know that no fair inference can be drawls froM unauthenticated records of the proceedings oft • Parliament. I ant sure it would be •as unfair tot .* decide , from such documents, what were the. obi • ' - serrations of Members in the Debates of WOW 4 days, as your Lordships waidd feel it to have youi ' own statements judged from the newspapers of to. morrow. I make no isiviilions comecut upowsuch • . • publications, because I Gan attribute such %effects to the impediments which your Lordships yourselves have thrown in their way, combined with the dit . i culties inherent in the thing. itself. Batt even 4,, • . - • rr '" what has• appeared tteinirthe proceedings of that period, there is nut a trace of any such course be. ing insinuateid. Considering the constituent parts at a hich that. Ctiuncil is composed, it could nut be. . Those who are.honoured with 4 seat is that buily,eve • called, upon, their - oath, to advisp the King, whoa in shall thigh; Ilt to-ask fez their advice. They are invested with die exercise of cartaili authuaitiet, both limited end, defnad., In what part of•Alieir.voins. . leilssion„wt their oath,. or their authority.is it, 1.614: laserteak thiethey shell • keels watch asahwasd owe the: Ring's mental capacity, or sthati:.ie • place, Si doing thatelone,• which• ought .to be. the step fez laying :the foundations of our crew proceedingeo •they shill, arrogate the power of prodeeding into their examination of the melancholy details .of 'ugh an important question ?• • This, ray. Lords, . -4: the sole duty. elf the States of . the ..Realm--it . pea:ditty Impossible. furoyour Lardshipt to efele. gods tU ether% itiLone which you yonriblvee hold lay.dolegaiints, being a betty bar) , and freely ram.. piing the Staten. 4.4 , this .Realm. • In the. shut. • ,) ain which you notektand4 the question is not, e t witetkee you shell,delleresiatawalway - wr the ot.her ;. your Tint, . your onlyralety is to take that step upuq which your future inquiry must rest. And mast justly /twit therefore been stated by my , Noble Friend (Mulra),near me, when he arbverved .that,:eten were he friendly to the proposed Ad,• jourenient, it was •till impossible to accede to it, Oil thafset stated in that report was aseertainede by yourselves and recorded in your own Junritals ‘ ' Even, my Lords, if that extraordioary doctrine Was; true, that in • tile Cabinet were centered all the. poser and influence, and importance of the I;xecii.• tire Fimetious, before we can do homage to lien Roc created Kings—before we set aside the law. fel Monarch, and proper! for the legal eeercise at Iris servants," ILA iuquicy to be made by your. Lordsliipe is absolutely necessary. I ant, my Loads, et present. unwilling to go into tau (Neb. ! ? 11011, whether in the establishment of thole facie per • • (meta to ailiourreor nut. Upriutitis point, I ee c tee n t tailt lily own .opinion. That opinion it is unuetessary. • now to eomnimaicate,. because I liavu already stated to you the groilmis of my opposition te the present. motion of the Noble Lord opposite, and should be. 6 ' sorry to rest it upon any °thee. -- There •are some. illeiti . :llt4 topica l.. . Upon which lam anxious to say , 'a few words. It has-been hinted, that this night a Noble Earl (Westmoreland) lots advanced iiii opi-, L e i o n-thet the Lou). Chancellor would have beets , !.justified in akilog the Great Seal without the Sign. Itinual a the Kine. ,-- Eari.WVISTMORELND rose to order, apd said the Noble Berlin was misinformed.- . lord G ri, ENV-ILEA les timed. The:Noble Eail , hal ea Wel tit ortlersithoatt convicting me of a breach iof it: whathe le . l diti tias misinformed .ov to ; l .4 d o ure he t.4 . l. di4 ! n - o w t a i s biii ‘pr‘lw as to rwrek:. ic ee c a s i . ist me wits *hat be realty did state oe that sub" Lad W ESTAICHALA ND.rthaerverl, tht he lead 'only said that hitinienws could have availul them. iseleepof such a ittClas!Ce, („untied upon precedent ; ' hot that thcy acrY Preperly did not. . , • . Lord.GRENYILLE.—The Noble Earl arre. getieler himself anti colleagues that they had under , ".