The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

4 u p o n, and oar the,tilioallit — 4 , Order for referring the Repo l i of the Con appointed to examine the 14yol Physicians, gieC omm ittec of the whole Oulu% ou the & Jae Nation, being read; O EOI of CAItIASLE rose, for the potpie b e g their Lordships' attention to this pertka. pu t of the subject, which he coveceised of t able importance. (lc briefly 'noticed the which had been taken from the earliest period d o m elancholy situation of his Majesty had plOrly know, to the present moment, the tee ersr of which, anikthe principle on whielt co llect of Minieters .Eitteefi!ds tied his, dCcitt.• probation. In ilMettemielf 'dit: . emissions to do that whisth the Ai; et their` Prescribed to them, they were now, after a of eight weeks, proceeding to do that which doald have done at the very earliest °pin. • T , after that great national calamity which ill deplored had taken place ; they were but beginning to lay the fouudabou of that g, which, if they had done their real duty, 4 wily to their country, but to themselves, ,rid ho c onsiderably above the ground—perhaps fe advanced, as merely to want the finishing to be put to it. . This wont! now have been case del Parliament perform its duty upon this s cant crisis. Instead of it, the work was left *Governmeet, which, under the eirceaistances, no particular description is the Constitiliii . in ; as in fact a sprits of usnrpation. g ame • g from the Omegas* Benches.) Tile oble then ro erted more particularly to the state of lisjesty's health, the truth a atkielt seemed to been iting concealed IL; gave full credit to Noble lords in Adneluistatiou for their rele. {what ; they must have been etioAlly_ de • with the rest of hisMejesty's subjects. When i looked over thwdoeummit which had jest been 1044 referred to the sionsitleratiwo of their 11.0, slid soospareil what appeared therein Maas ef the Ilullatins issued shoot the time to Nei ho alluded, be Nest tight it scertely pes•i b,thit ens % Misistere etleilletirel , could be ac. mend *ids those tassfast Ilerty.sevec could have aes Ova the asidillant *at nionili, sod held the, i :they did. so :.11411iisimet, respecting She digs Mapity'll Meth. But representations Wks ritoter sitvoitildnot hare hose made the Allnsillamossfdit prossapiltso, Aar should, Irs theleSetwee lowans! (owlet riiil sesta of Woe; and they shoeld not have suffered the {were Power at the Government to remain in, hinds it has against thu plainest principles and Into of the Constitution. lie repeated this idea, lit Noble Lords in the Administration could It kete been aequainted with the real slate of the IA of their Sovereign at 41te time, or they nom have so acted. Ile begged their Lordship! 'consider what the statemetits, made by a ICIOR. kV and Ileberden, respecting the state his Ma. aty really were in tit the time to which ini allud. ri t The Noble Earl here quoted .certain parts Oat Report of the evidence of those Ma; isi Gentlemen, which lay upon the . table t mitshirly where the former describes thus teal Patient to have been, from the severity of the fon, in a state of great peril. This was about the tin! November ; an* when the latter stated that *of the paroxysms appeared so severe as to giro lirPhysiciausgreat apprehensions for the safety of lislite, he could nut suppose that Ministers could ine been acquainted pith the real State of the case, tad of the dangerous state of his Majesty, or they told never have raised hopes of his recovering so tiedy as ti rendei. it unnecessary, in all probabi. by, for Parliament to take those steps which were lit, recently adopted. The Noble Earl then re. trot to the language'of the Bulletins; signed by tic Physicians, which lie considered very dill:treat Li ',heir import from what the Physicians described tithe CoMinittee to barn hoe. the aittration of his Marty at the carsispoodlag period , . He c9n. wid; that no man, 'from a perusal of those pa• nu, reek' have harms She state the Sovereign was "billy in at the time.. Upon the whole, when' ',sieved this part of the subject, on which, sp. Wetly, a degree of delusion existed, equally in. I Mots and reprehensible, he thought, that as the• taunts given through ' those differuut channel, 'itse, solnaterially contradictory, the best elpedi ., 4 Mar arriving at the real truth, and the lan* s att 4 the Sovereign's health, world be a re.exa.' 1 ''russet, of the ' Physicians; and a proceeding la n ktod woeld be the more desirable, as these stele: r "%N% Were in high estimation in the world Inc lb*: a rent professional skill. Ile thonght Ditch a peso.: Inures due to the dignity of Parliament, and *miry for the infOrlnifilM of the Public at large; ilis lch his. as h e would caromed,' recommend its adop.t , I Ilfr ESTI of LIVERPOOL. dl . not conceive it'l . 1 . 1 1 141 7 to trouble their Lordships with any ebser mall, is consequence of what /lad fallen front . . 11 IN hi E los : . e ad, farther than to say, that he, and , sih whom he had the holVour to act, were ilwif_st any time to fully discus and justify the " of conduct adopted, under all the circus. nes to which the Noble Karl had referred. , lie i nht the disc u s s i on o f such a topic won't, he VI, irregular and inopportione in the preset I . llll ,__ e _ o or their Lordships' proceedings; he ' w ei mit NIT T re mote the Order of the Day. Th e • 1 question being put from the Woolsack, t h e ir 4elships accordingly restrived.intO a COU/OlitiSC Of t: e lhOle HOUK' OD rose, and said 44 I now feel 'myself Galled upon to address yo s; Lordships upon the very important subject ender r n deratien, and to call your Yqu • those Itesolutious voted and P co ar t:n e i 9 u - n ar ieh ill tec t i c t i. t i a ti n ° s " b t ; the House' of Commons, whir* yam halve jitS4 beard read. Upon the first of the Residelioses 'my Lorin, .1 think at this time, twebetenately, there can arise no diffe r ence of opiate*. 4i charging* the painful duty ltaposo o b ....by - statement of the mtiancholy fact referred tolls tali Resolution, I am persuaded it it impossible to, du joshes to • Muse teelidds, by twit....oesesept• of it,; to eltPAN'lliana , i wth whit*/ art' . ttee ap atettaxeumegmitiernifAiag a eireelastallia /Ft I . • mat, boo. tt belp expressing the notious hot* `we ail inestialnetain on the restoration of a gra. Sous and beloved Sovereign, under wittier ea . spites, fur more than fifty years, we have enjoyed a portion of liberty and uninterrupted tranquillity,. which was never enjoyed by aisy ether country on the face of the glebe; and I feel we all must look . with pleasing satisfeetien to the hopes held out of the re.establishinent of his Majesty's heidinv and the hope of the ultimatecolioutption, by himself, of the personal exercise of. his' Royal Authority. Nut. trithatandieft, my Lords, what I have heard this night orati•formee occasionS, I can take no blame to myself, our attach any to my colleagues is office, for Owed propositions we have from tune to time made, in the hope that these measures, which now may eventually he necessary to adopt, might have been avoided. Ili this view of the case, it is im. possible to consider the state in which the country must be involvol'under such circumstances—a situ. alien ita which it is now nearly two centuries and a half ago since it was placed under a Government in any degree c•isilar, which the afflicting considers. lion we all deplore may render necessity. I Sky, my Lords, when we reflect not only upon the dia. culties but the degree of danger, naturally inekl est to such changes, it is linpuasible that we should not passe when any reasourble prospect presentee! it. self of our being able to avoid such a state as that to which I bath alluded. It was oar ditty, as MI. nistets, In such circumstances, and our dety ta the country, to endeavour to avoid it. Ido not sar this, my Lords, from soy considerations of a par. sone , nature towards any individual, however ex alted, but from public grounds, and from pubriC principles. Under these.impressione I shall, at the presort moment, eadeieiest - Iseult, mi week as possible, the consideration and discussion of ell er ttenrous poiuts, or of soy matter forcer from the subject regularly before us. If I decline entering upon any io these topics, it is not from any patti. cellar nirwillirigness, or desire, to shrink from any such discussious l but because I feel they are nut necessarily iuvol.a d in the question now regularly before the Committee. The present questions should be eholly considered op their own grounds, and their exclirsite merits, and net connected willt• any thing that, may tend to embarrass, instead al' facilitating the disco tsien. That now before el ga. , tirely and alone respects the coarse and mode of the• proceedings which it may be necessary or adoptt end as far as this consideration ens, Olt is, on in .1 time form of o u r proceedings, I • war indueed• to think there would be no material difference of opt.; akin ; but as I understand since, from what has ..passed in this /louse, and is other places, that it is -intended. nut merely to object tothe etude in which:, it is proposed to fill up the temporary deficiency.itt the Constitution, but also to oppose the Whole principle anti course of the proceedings adopted is the year 1788. With respect, my • Lords, to the• principle of that great end salutary precedent, whets I cuusider it so analogous to, and founded on, the; lenniate principles of the Constitution of this coaori try ; when l consider the great. and eminent law authorities who have given theic decided and express lesuction to that principle and course of proceeding, feel it a question of so much magnitude and im portanee, that I cannot avoid stating these general .principles, at least, on which, in mt Eonvictinti, ;these Resolutions are founded, and 4 which I Con. trite to be consonant to alt alumni great constitu. liquid principles, by which I conclude year Lerd.l .llhips would wish to be governed on such occa. .sions as the present. The first principle laid down is forming the precedent of 1788, was,•that the! Throne must be considered as always full, and that the Ptilitical capacity of the Sovereign was always :in existence, whaler nay be the immediate tem. .porary personal siteation of the Monarch. This 1 1 conceive to be a practical distinction of a nature accessary to ensure to the governed the existence se all the advantage* to be derived from the prin chile of Monarchy. If the otereies of the Royal • Authority, during the life of the legal Sovereign, scrupulously reserved fur that Sovereign, aveytleilarture from this principle on every oceasiou of temporary personal incapacity might be, to lead Se all the inconveideaces and dangers of a disputed sncceisioo. The great 'object is the estahlkhment of the monarchical system was, its affording a se curity, and the certainty of its affording a baiwark against .the ambitious designs of individuals; the ;object should be, as far as poseihlo, to swots this nystent against say interruption, and to etorlitiltte end continue, as fat Si possible, the Eau:Make 4Power to the King upon the Throne. lilt, Owe, toy Lords, should be inhletl, the cassiderntion that the law knows no such abbess that or gored.— That office was always created seeder 'special sir. cumstancrx, and with necroses to a spacial cxi.. &eery. It was the uniform practice of asst anFes. •• what - fromits being left open end undecided 4 Basic weft lees than what would result from laying demi . i p". coral proaretive rule; they thought It riot to .liere It to 'wisdom of future Legislatures to pen t& that species of Government, according to t . 'spatial drcumitances of the ;testicular cases;!as , *ay smear. Neither, my Lards, wits it * . . stony ancestors, that'Ske succession to •Iftti . . . ' - ilitoold •be regulated bj• .that of the ee ry su 2 .110. the Aliote...l7chy ; nor doei sunk a line' Vbelieve, obtain. in ether Coins, itntrnsiatid by Out Monarchical systetn, Intim, ,T id 29 " 1 1 1 0,14 0 1 ,11. tkentirAPpecent or Ileiel l icatan.7 tVgitadertsgrountb I shield thin i Ile i'lliii-pwritost fit wheals etteil no shoed be netted. Evora where the Satire law pre vails, the itext in succession to the Throne is nut considered. as the properest to exercise the author'. ties of a Regent. The assumed principle of a right vested it; the next in succession to the office of R 3. gent was not founded on the principles of the Coii.. stitution ; nor was it to be fused in the Sta. Asa" Book. There was no Instance in the his. tory of the country of a Regent who. had out been appiiiiited by the' authority of the existing Legislature. Indeed, an instance of a claim to the Regency bent* made, was 'to be found in the reign of Henry VI. when the next of kin (the Mu. much being then in a state of infancy) claimed the exercise tthe Royal Power. The claim was dis. cussed in Parliament, and it was the opinion of all the great authorities of that day, that such a claim was entirely unfounded, and it was so determined by the Legislature. Indeed; all the cases in the his tory of the Realm eilnced that no Regent wits ever appithrted, except by the authority of Parliament. it is also appareet, - my L or d s, from a review of, lour hiitory, that there was no instance of it RA, gene!, with the ex,:eption of the Duke ofGloeires., , ter. ifterwards, King Richard 111. and the Protect llooniorict, that was nut in sonic way or other limite4V ',end restrained by Parliament. Even the Duke of York, in the reign of Dewy VI. notwithstanding all his power and influence, he could nut obtain the Regency otherwise than as a restricted grant. I know ! my Lords, it may be objected, that these NM lo which I Tater are drawn from tinsel and peo rinds of etiercti i t. end . violence, but they are times sowhie t t4i i i:i i litetrons of the greatest legal and . . eisistit , an. Odra, we should look for the kmadadoits of..tklitfiberty which we now enjoy;' Shot these footulas were laid from the accessiutt of Henry lA. to the reigu of Henry VII. But, my Lords, it is rwt to precedents formed in these times that we can alone refer; we have them many degrees nearer to the present time. Idu not now menu the great case of MS, that I shall advert to by and by. The cases I mean alfor ' d us ample proof of the opinion of the country as to the. principle. I allude to the Act of the 25th of George the Sc. cunt, made in contemplation'of 'the minority of his present Majesty. I enter nut into pareicular cif: cumstances Or arrangements, but it shows the pre. valence of the•principle at the time, that the next in succession was not, as a matter of course, enti. tleitto the office or the powers of Regency, and that, the dice to be contingently exercised was not created. withiont limitation or restriction. The Act fur the eventual formation of a Regency, P 4 the early „ part of . the present reign, proceeded upon the same principle ;, Inc next in succession to the Throne was not to be invested with the Regency, neither was it to be exercised without limitation or restriction. All the precedents and authorities in the Statete.,Book, or in the page of history, evince the principle that no individual whatever, has any right to the Mice of Regent, save what he cleated from Parliament, and that such was founded on the best principles of _oar Constitution. I shall now proceed to the consideration of the mode in *hid* such office, in caw of necessity, may be Conferred by the. Legislature; There exists only two, that by Adams, awl that by Bill. As to ,the person on whom the office should he conferred, they were all agreed. By time *mode of Address, his Royal Highness would be desired to take upon him the Government of the country---tom an act of the Ire. gislature it would be provided he should do so ; but I would ask, if any particular individual has no le gal title to the Regency, whether both modes of proceeding are of celled (lilt:eq. However, it proves, by your own sheoliiii, that the authority ptoceeds from Parliviutestf,w hick eter mode is adopt ed. 'rho mode of Address in itself Can confer no 1 legal powers, tad in every view I can take of it, I consider that of prodeeding.by Bill the only mode iwe cau Adopt. The Address, my Lords, can con fer no legal poster, it can form no records nor be taken outice of in the Courts below. The Address may call forth into action any legal power almuly in existence, but it can confer no . pewee by law which did no pravion , ly exist. Na objection of :this iort could lie against the (nolo of proceeding by Bill, which, svith the Great deal alibied to it, mUst be duly regarded in all thcConrts of th4Realin. 1 contend ; - that the annexation of the Grpat Seal would have such effect—the Courts weriebound to ',obey it—no covenant could be made' against it in ,rho Courts of Law." Here • Earl STANHOPE.rose to order, hat on its ap. tpaaring the Noble Lord was mit .ge_perally sup. fortert; holibarrited,lt was competentroshins .niarreet a mistake- inm . Member of the Come T be, Earl of -HARROW RY observed, in\ [_that his Noble Friend was 'perftmtly in tract; take was no transgression of order. . .. . .00 , • vie r .8411:. - ' ~ t , . 'he Ei at LIYERPQOb . resuilned. 116 Mitt:, led Poo the accuracy of the former tlti'lion.—= ' winiliy Of tkettreat Seale-411y be questioned Aimiseot, but it be questioned in any A l COurdt below. I catinat better express my apieNin oe thlt head; than by tefeiting to the lan. game 'it 4 fittest la* authority now no Mery I • mean thin' late hoid Camden ; he had a particu lar degree of ithrreCieess ineapeessing his elitism/nil, and • I 'White, five itilhat I hate heard or read upon , the. aitbject,.& hem silt I could celiett fro th my etiatersattnat with permits eminently learned iii the kw, tkat the orkion of that - great lawyer. was in: controvertible; pszt a he rifiahle kart lead the dpi. Men ke alibied iory to Mitigating the greet leet • aeiii.*j or Atoi. VS*, notat e( bait turn a .morlt etrilaneprotitthen t n eff Of its wiriest. Va1ea.,,,2 jsB,"#.4l,loo,otOilese of the 'reign . ott ot I - Fg..... • ~ Ai ' tat t 'irocobtatid a di 74 . • • • • • .kW 'l4 atia. s e re.. deeht wherifie Ike • weti l WI eerie.' ret '- ,h a s At.; remeined in force, and war never questiob. e d during tit.: reign of h;2 . nattier, Ring t 414, the Vlth. This itgets a stir lug proof of the Mfg. eacy of the Cerebra Seal, which, Ken whore ..it *ag doubtful whether the Royal Assent Was ditty A: tuned, yet fur an interval of several ),cars its oleo thority was not attempted to be• set aside: . It was only in Parliament that the authority of the Siveit Seal can be questioned or retoked. From a,l I hate aid, my Lords, I most Conclude, that ears, . of the persoaal incapacity Of the sing to efertify his went, there remains do other mode tti priiiiiisi for the deficiency, but by legislation; it . Ike only in the two remaining branches to provide flit filling up the deficiency t and of this, it I before otia, served, there are numeral's precedents: The prin.: ciole of the present . proceeding, my Lords, gait throughout upon the consideration of the Throne being full—than the C4urts of Justice aro fitted —that all the Commissions from the Crean are id full force—and that the State is alive in all its pull: In the much-vaunted mile in 1688, the case was fee otherwise—the Throne was recant—the Courts of Julio wete shut—the - Great Seal was destreyedi Under these circumstances there was then nontluo native; they had no power, do authority to . htigislidel Mot they adopted that mole und r the eircunisixotiek which appeared to them most boneficial•to the Sate; they adopted it on the exigency of the ease. Attu ther instance, my horde, adduced of the 'mode qI proceeding . by Address, is the well-Itactird ; east Ur, the Irish Parlianseat, in 178110 ThOt! Bog . tied pleased to deterntitiC on the mode of Address ; but to too immortal honour of the Nate Marquis Whit I . tten resided in that meat iyaatitts Represented*a of die Sovereign, he *fibbed friiinitoesrerysetiettoir In his potter, anti Loren Witted to' transmit it to this country. But, my Lords, a material coasiiieration applies to this proceeding of the Irish Parliament, mean the discussions of the question of a Unity% with that country in 1799, via. that this very pre. ceeding of the Parliament of Ireland in 1788, by Mode of Address, was urged as ad argument fur the Union, inasmuch as the Legislatures in .thcir Seim. rate state may, oa the occurrence of such an °tent, choose a different person to fill the office of Regeut in 'Medd, from that, chosen to fill the same office in England. This Was admitted, as far as it Went, , to be a conclusive argement. The precedent of 1788, my Lords, I contend, in all its points and bearings, is the only one which, under the present and precisely similar eireumstances, legally and con. stitutionally govern our proceedings. It was .aims ply and fully.discitised in both Hoeses of Perna! . meat at the time, and the Resolutions irlflah I hale the honour this nigh‘to submit to you, were coati- t tied in both Houses by codsidetablemajorities. Id Additifth to what I have already adverted to on -this head, is the conshletatinn, that iii purulence to the Resolutions of both Reuses} _ Parliament was opened by Commission, -udder the Great Seal, on the 34 of February; and. it is well Irrietwti, that pa . wards the Mote of that Mouth his Majesty happily recovered ; and, on the 10th of March, Parliament was regularfropelied by Commission, uticlee the aca. custeated formillties, theContosissioo Wing siededby his Majesty. But id the first Commission, I should state, that the cause Of the Meetingof Parliameet, untleritteh circumstances, etas duly stated.. In the resider and ordinary .Ciontilissiod for upetling the &lesion on thiloth of March, the limiter Commis:. shin WV . teforreal td end recognised, as appeared from thoi,theu Lord Chancellor's speech to both 1 Houses in the iliittle , of his Majesty ' the former C.iminissioners were continued ift the dommissium:•ut the 10th of March, and ,the acts and proceedings under the former Commission were recognised and cotifirineti by that issued in the customary way, sod signed by his Majesty himself. In the interval be. ttiellit the Commissions a variety of legielative pea. eeetlidgs had taken plate, its Pritate Bills, , for . eihieliNtitions had been presented in the usual Way, and some of these *ere considerably talvaitced,iii their progress. Were the former Commission to which the Great Seal wu affixed not on the personal authority of his Majesty, but oti that of the two, Houma only—held to be invalid, or illegal, Or nut sauctidned as it afterwards was, what must have be. come of all Hulse various Acts, to which I have 'al. I uded ? Deter it were thought doubtful all tbpsa proceedings must ,have fallen to the ground, and must have commenced anew. But the fact was the reverse ; all these Bills were taken up in the stages in which they were found by the second Cele. miesioners, and went afterwards passed under it. cer • - • , g` • . - . . • - . a , • . i's:- .• , . % . - . • , ' .... ~. . . 4 .. • ' , • . 4 4 ..44 . 4.4 ..' 7. .4441 .. lie t ir t ,.. . . ,‘. r • ,• .. .. ‘.. . ' • ' ' 1.. - - '''. • •. . • s. '" ' . . 1 . . 1.. ' • 1 • . • .1 .4 re .. ."" •• 4 ... 'f - 2 . ..1. • • • . • • '•42 44 7 . ...st ,-1 " , ' ' ''' - • '. R * ' ' . . .. ... 11l .: . 1 . 11.. t: :fte ~.,1 • . . • • -. ri l • / I 1 4 '...# . " 1- " r 1 • • ~ . • . ' ''.• NO • odln a " , j t 4 :: 4 ... _ . • .... . • . ____. . . t . . :r' LOWD , . AiDi 13 ° 7 * P ' ...N.I• t o WV; PRIO4Y 'M EMBER 18i ISTO. . ....zl . A l . § • , • - • k • . . . . . . • . . ' - " 4110m1.1111411111a vi-• .... THE STAVE OF THE NAT ON, - 111pRICIA& PARLI , • vi .k. , And loud Walsiughans having taken the Chigri tors so to act, and in their wiadom they formed gni The Earl of Lli general preeatfrnt for the guidance of pecteri , y tended for Ad accui 0 uo psE OF LORDS. Tleaspat, Dr. . •7. "' TATE OF/118 AI I.IMITIL, H. EXL H. the Resolutions coiumnnicated by the Collimus •upon the point ; rho felt the danger of medJhoo, "The validity of tbc were then read by the Clerk, frussiass to the Order of illii DAy tali regularly on which rl LIIVER,POOI, rose. and said. " I now with a principle •..f the kind so great, that they by Parliament, but I . ...nn_ did on the ommition of their Lord- FA thought that vrhataver inconveniences may arise of the Courth beim . . • I A • 1...”. . .amaa .....L.Nsn Ha fide Land rsu y sup. se. mainv•••• • ...7 .- . . sins to r i ft authority. and under these Amy so passed, a cOn. am ities. sidatable portion of property was slow held, These to l oweik atoslinances proved that a Atli Parliamentary an. A ct; unit; thosity, duly sauetioaed kr thi fins,. was gpre i n to the ptotmedhsgs alliptods fit tiO girt- iitifeafies by .. . . - .1 '. • ih..1 9;: :, ..•- . , . • • • " ... . . - , II "(s ) 101* ,:• . il r 1 , ; ; , ? f J...dii