The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-02-27 00:00:00

.. - ..., . and the W4SO9 Train. Among many e,objectintiab!. e stablishments, the Hon. Gee. sa re ferred tdi the M anx Cor p s and the New. ifindland Fencibles, both of h g whic he conceived be unnecessary. The reat fault in expenditure appeared to him to proceed ,rn the want of a sufficient power of super. ~.,dance over the several Departments. Blame Meant not to attribute to any. individual, los of all to his Right Honourable Friend at head of the Treasury. Ile was certain that Itight Honourable Friend saw a fault, no A ., ,meld be more ready to correct it. But , e E gi a radical fault 13 the general arrange. t o f expenditure, which ate.% rendered it : : „11, if not impossible, to 'discover those , ohich could only be corrected by the esta. ~,cat of the power lie alluded to. m ight be asked, wliy h..? did not propose . w o retrenchments earlier ? but to that he could that he had frequently pointed out the topics for the consideration of those with os h e had the honour to act while in office. he had never ceased to press those points „ol e ic a ttendee of those who It id the power to Ante end he had in view, and he was naturally j " , 103 that the refor.n he proposed should origi. sigh the executive power. The statement b e h a d n o w felt it his ditty to submit, v „.4, he trusted, lie attributed to the real mu. argeal tint to stand forward—a desire w oe his country—to secure to us the means of or oing against Bonaperte, who had himself ~,,,hied ups, living thirty years, during whioli t ,,m was too much reason to apprehend that he .4.lcentinee the inveterate and - active foe of ( : ;: ,t mr. ROA . ; concurred with his Honourable as to the propriety of every practi .able T ogemeut, antl of subjecting the public elven. di!srete some controuling power—that in fact, oi ly or ie hand should be allowed to go into the o stiepitoc. But he differed from his Honour. 3 51 t Friend in some of the points he had advanced, 3 4 maintained the necessity of keeping up the Mast aid Sew foundl said Corps. Mr. Secretary RYIJFR stated, that the re. j a w' about to take place in the expenditure of or,Local Militia,• proceeded from a diminution of Or somber of the days of training,' and also of flaNua.commissioned Ctllicers attached to that r we tie semi gl corps mere .0* my street thi Mrsumeick's Mr. P. MOOR E congratulated both the Hon. Gotlwo% on the other site (Mr. Bose and Mr. Branton) on the new sentiir.ents which they 1111 this ni;ht expressed—on their zeal for that dune and retrenchment in the politic expendi. Are, 'which they iliscuntitenaneed so much in the letSessious when proposed to the t consideration d the House by his Ulm Friend near him (Mr. Wardle). It was grateful to his mind, as well for this sake of these Gentlemen themselves, as for *public good, to *fitness the refor.n which had taken place in their opinions. Lord TEmPLE expressed a wish to know what tot the nature of the chance about to take place in the establishment of the MetliCal Board ? What security the country was to hare that the new fiord about to be appointed would take 'care to anl against the ealamities which servo ass jostly suributed to the present Board ? Whethor thol reysicians to be appointed should be capable of *gine of c imp and contagions diseases [hear, ' *sr 1? and also whether it was possible Veal an location exifteil of allowing tle Members of the present Board to retire out full pay, notwithstand. hig the evils occasioned by their disunion and . sower . The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCITEQUEIt tould nut conceive how any assurance could 1* storied before-hand as t• the capacity of the loth. winds to he appointed to succeed the present Me f3t" Yes," said Lord Temple, across VI, fable, " by naming them."] The Chancellor litchegeer observed, that he was not pre pared to comply with the Nuble Lord's request. — flit the Noble Lord might be assured, that care vuoW be taken to select the most eligible persons; aid that it was meant, as an additional security fir the performance of their duty, that they should confine themselves wholly to the superintend. lice of the Medical Department, _and to the Consideration of time diseases to which the Army Yoe liable. If any of most: appointed should be found iliespahle, their dismissal would follow of course. As to the idea of granting full pay to Ake Member of the present Medical Board, upon tHr retirement, tic knew not why the :Veldts Lord should imagine the existence of ally stieh in. tonien, unless he inferred it from the application ' 1( 'hove Members thanselves. Upon this subject he shouli only aid, that the new arrangement about to take jilazc in the Medical Department asis determined upen long before the pending In quiry was brought forward. Colonel WAR.DLE &nerved, that, although there were many points on which lie did nut feel it necessary to dwell iii• the present discussion, he . *del nut refrain from expressing his utter astn. aiehment at finding, after the extraordinary cool. 1111 with hick the sego:ions ho had the honour of makieg to the House iast Session, on the subject of retrenchment, had been received, that the very Points on which he had then teached had now been taken up by the gentlemen opposite to him. Fot this he thanked them most kindly, as he was sure the country would also di. Aod.he confidently treated, that the Committee hail now 'hewn that sort of mind and deeLled spirit which would ,us'ify the country in the hope and expectation 'hat something in the way of retrenchment would t done—nothing could give him greater plea. %Ire than to see his Majesty's Minister's be- P.inning to do that which was absolutely essential to the salratieri—to the very existence of the country. He u . i.siccd ettrcutely in the inessie. tion apparently felt by those who, on s tetealle. occasion, hail refused to listen to his suggestion"; and as his sole object was the good of his country, he should not be fastidious sin the score et no' kistruments by which that object, of whim* he should never relinquish the pursuit; was obtained. With respect to _ .tbe Local Mao' f a, he should not at that time Auks ify Gabon; but um Ihe subject d •Ihit fi~ - . . . , . . . . . . .. . . , . .. • . , . . - . . . .. . , . . „ . . . , TfilL StAtiamAk. MA$. •, . . . Train, he feared that AS Coituiteso Wye n. Smarts of the eisormous expeoseet west os that unprofitableand uselessestabtlabolose.— owest yct been able to obtain thet a relating to thee branch of service, for wh in had Magid sortie flout ago, otherwise be Should at that moment have been ogle to prove to the Committee that the estimate nor. before them, o f th e p ro b a bl e ea . penditure oc the waggon train s fell greatly short, nay that it roved but a small portion of the real espenditurel of that branch of service; but as the inutility of this wasteful corps appeared t o be admitted by all sides, he treated that the public would very speedily have to congratulate themselves on its entire abolition. The commands with which foreign Generals had been entrusted in this country, and particularly in the cennty of Rises, he could not but deem highly reprehensible '—such was nut formerly the usage in this coun try; and ho verily believed, that even but a very few years ago no Minister could have been found so daring, as to have appeared in that House alter having sanctioned a measure so repugnant - to the feelings of Britons, and to the general spirit of the Constitution. The introduction of foreign troops into this couutry, on rho permanent footing which they seemed to hare acquired, was a novel measure, evidentlyarising out dais u nconstitutionalprinci r le. The expenditure of the country had now arrived at that point, when it became necessary to examine .every channel • of expence, however minute ; for it would not serve as an answer to say, that this, object was trifling—that was inconsiderable...the aggregate of minute wasie would, he was certain, be found to swell into a prodigious htilk. There was, however, one article of expenditure, to which the imputation of minuteness could not be. applied-.-he meant the army clothing, in the sup. ply of which, it was absolutely necessary that seine reform, and that too, without delay, should take place. In the last year, ' Go vernment had given an advance of Is. 6d. on every suit made by private contract, more thee what was paid where the contract was open to public competitionl—and he was certain that Mr. Courtenay's supply would be found to have been as gout, at least, as that of Mr. Pearce. Why was the Public to pay 75,0001. more than was necessary, and more than the amount for which the supply could be furnished ? That was the fact, and he "pledged ititibself to prove - it ! (Hear, hear!) If the supply of accoutrements and tfiat of cavalry appointments were brought to open contract, he had .uut the smallest doubt that ti saving would scenic at which the coon. • try would be astonished. lie was fully pre. pared on this subject to give ample proof in happen of his assertion. and would certainly bring forward the sub!..ct, unless his Majesty's. Ministers would render that unnecessary, by theta ' selves undertaking the investigation of a subject of expenditure so highly important. He had some time ago pressed on the House the subject of the price of great coats, with which the army was snp. plied—qt that time the supply was at the rate of 16s. dd. per coat.—Ministers had in that instance 'listened to his suggestion, and the contract was thrown open. Wyatt had been the consequence t co:its of fully equal, nay, even supetior 'stalky, .as he shot Iti afterwards _shear, had setswestiz been delivered to the army at only 9s. per coal, a reduction of between 50 and 60 per cent. Peat ! hear !] This was a fact, beyond the power of dispute, and sorry he was, that in stating that re. l auction, he could not there stop—but there was yet remaining what, although be would nut direct. ly term it a job, something so very eztraurilinary, that he would not pass it over in silence. Pot' those very coats which could now be afforded at the sum of nine shillings, there was charged for the process by which they are supposed to be rendered renter-proof—how much why no less than half a crown, almost one-third of the original cost, when it is notorious that the process can be as completely effected' for sirpence! [near, hear!] He had said that the coats thus stippled at 9s. ,were superior to those for ; which 16s, 6d. hail been formerly paid, in proof of which, ho need only state that the coats at Ns. Gil. had neither linings nor pockets, while them at 9s. have both, and arc four inches longer ! [Hear, hear !] It might be thought by some Gentlemen that 'be 'had dwelt with too much minuteness on this subject—he hail been minute—he had, at the same time, been winutely accurate, and his ob ject was to impress on the minds of the Committee the imperious necessity of military eetrettchment in geoeral--fur he could assure them that when they anme to examine other articles of military expenditure, with equal iainateness, they would ' find the contract fur great costs an example, and that nut an exaggerated one, of our genera/ mill. tary ex penditure—thesansti principleofexpentittute obtained throughout the system, and the same aye. tern of retrenchment would be found correctly to apply to that imputaat branch of national expels. diture. [Hear, hear 1] In the estimate of the expenditure in the office of the Secretary at War, 'hg observed an excess of 10,8721. The Noble Lord had told them that there had been no change persons had rworostli *MI A S . in the War O ffi ce, but that different been selected to accelerate the completion of the • LONDON: • complicated accounts of that Office. Now those TettSlDAlr t FERIIIIArt It,. • very persons had been al work for years, and notwithstanding that, • the accounts wire A WWI from Tarragona Wogs a report et, yet in the utmost coofetion—nothieg had b oo dose towards rollick them to order ; considerable advantages obtained by the Spaniards and yet, ,in ISOS, there were us Acted over thisFranch, in an action that took place in PIC' Clerks in the War Office t Mismanagement there consequence of a sortie from Barcelona. In certainly must be somewhere, and he verily be' neighbourhood of the Pyrenirs the Spaniards ere' tiered that not one-fifth of the regimental accounts also stated to have succeeded in culting of a were get through in any one year. Ho was French party of .900 men. 'this &o lwly wag:, extremely sorry to see also fro m the Esti. mates, that the numbers of the F oreign Corps fare may be protracted to agesstiength ; the eat in out service increase ; this wee s PrinaiPia and a tent of the Peninsula, and the variety of difficult practice which he sbeeld ev elr'°- •ots °Pe' No legs a couotrY with which it aboende, will. render the sem than 30,0001. apparel oaths face of the Es. entitle reduction of the conttry to a state of dotates, for recruidag Ole Foreign Corps. That . pie tranquillity, a work of great labour and ti me. meth a sum should be reqsi redior such a p ur p excited alike his sorrowoirdlidS indignation !--bat No farther information has .bees received direct we :could not Isert'plealrograg and retrial fr."' from Wit. There was a report in circulation yes. thepont's Ono. (beer, hoer, bear !)—No fewer terdey, that the assistance of oar troops had beet Use 800 of Reps al's army, Who had been made • deemed unnecessary by the Spaelerdsi on their prim/nervier* takenont Spanith jail*, and in. eerpereted Hite foreigocesite UMK etwrice--tbeee arri. al at Cadiz • • with bur foreign , itiair. - a hefte t; He Ind a .." SO ins* erkethe's the Duke e amps, • ..dket . kie 16 tempt!, taken into our pay, had received any thieg b it bounty or recruiting money—such Was nefralaillq, arhich if true, was truly extraordinaty—olad he bagged leave to put it to the Noble Lord whelk" such was the fact. If it were so, he should•thinit it a very sufficient reason for piMinas end at Once to this species of recruiting. There lab another item in the estimate, which to. Mot .appeared not less extraordinary ; but, perhaps, it was iescep., tible of explanation...as last year the estliato Ofi the foreign depot was 154001 • in this reek was 20,0001.—an excess of 50 1 301. ; while the whole expenco of the British depot, Including the cavalry, was estimated at only 11,0001. !-.., [Here several Members bicame inpatient for the question.] Gentlemen might call out Question ! Question! but that .would only protract the debate, for he was determined 'to do his duty. On the . bead of Barracks in Iceland, there was a grant Of 135,5001. for the erection of new Barracks.—' Would the Committee without document or infor mation grant such atom ? He hod on a former oc. anion stated, that there were already several very OR:client Barracks in Ireland unoccupied, and yet 135,5001. was asked for building more Bar.. rack ! [hear ! hear !] and this too, at the very time, when the Right Honedrable Gentleman (Mr. Rose) in his pamphlet, havingjust discover.* e d that this Barrack- ernes .is SO expasive—ac. kaowledges himself to have - been deceived - hid .:' (Hear ! Hear ! Hear I.] Ile trusted, however, that the Cominittee would not consent to throw away the public money in this manner.— There was but ode more point on which ho should trouble the Committee.—,-The dif. ferent regiments were all calculated at their full establishments ; but on what ground .did they vote away the.public money ? Was it 'possible that the whole of the money demanded could be wanted ? Not ooe.third of it. The second. bat. Adieus of many regiments Were composed of boys, the pay to whom was nine.pence ' • and yet these estimates, on which they were called upon. to vote away the public money, made no distinction, but classed them all as men at one whilling.—= He anxiously trusted that the Committee would pause—that they would make a stand. 'ere they thus lavishly voted away sums, in his opinion, so greatly csceeding.the necessity of the service. It was his intention to have mined, that the Estimates be referred to a Select Committee—in that he should not, however., persevere; but he would I maintain, that were a minute examination of the i km s actually required fur thu service of the roar to be instituted, the Estimate before the Vommittee would have been reduced at least too, ar perhaps three millions. Ho trusted that 'after what he hail stated, Something, decisive would be attempted by his Majesty's Mainers on the Me * rent objects of retrenchment which be had pined out ; but if l •unhappily, ho should be disappointed in that hope and expectation, be should entain. ly fed. it his duty to bring forward .so im. portant a suhjeet by come apical; 'WOOL . • Sir JAMES PULTENET stood, that every ponible effrirt was made iii the War Dike to ea. , c - el ir a(V Ilitietttelttein tiveigtotoatoClMMr.ll4s:llo , expressed his surprise at the Honourahie Masi bee's statement as to the clothing of that aresys *Melt he could not coned 's: to be correct. - • Mr. HUSK ISSON said, that he still retained all j the sentiments he expressed last session, with regant to the proposition of the Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Wardle), with which sentiments be had netshis night uttered a ward in any degree inconsistent. Mr. PARNELL considered the continuance of the Waggon Train in IrelAnd as a most severe and unnecessary oxpence. Ile• complained, that in .bringing forward the present Army Estimates, no attention appeared to he paid' to the valuable ad. vice contained in the Report of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry. No alswer had beep given to the question, whether the Members of the late Medical Board received pensions, and Whether the Duke of Brunswick's corps received homely or not. Lord MASON contended, that no practical grievance accrued from the employment of foreign troops. ' Lord PALMERSTON briedly replied to the different objections of the preceding Speakers: Be stated, that the Foreign Troops under the ' Duke of Brnaswiek did receive a bounty atone geineas, 31. 17s. to be expended in necessaries. After some observations from Mr.. BANES and Lord TEMPLE, who gave notice of , his in. wittier' to move, on Thursday neat, for the estab. lishment of the New Medical Board, the different Resolutions were agreed to. Sir THOM AS.I URTON professes his deter. foliation to oppose the Report whenever it was ... brought up. The House resumed, and Report ordered to be brought up this ital.... Adjourne d at half past two. E STATESMAN._ saac ) ' . 4 ; rt• •- ." • • . ; • 4 . , - - - • Greet rejolatigs flare bead beard on the Freed itidit, bet the :Goose II Whitt° oolestoilnr. • • —isms.— A. Gabskiptiit trail Para ApOiSetli hi term yes: • lirtltty: geetptibllethe bieldssawi ottbe report is • :that capitiVerilbif illitinau Whirled Fresco and ..ilisillrie,.bitiiiisponsil 44• iiiti istiotear.ovis. The Prince tar NaVetaai!r., however,* nut . ';t shed Paris, at the thee of the Geistiesd*dit - &I.' .' tare. :.s. A Lvrtitit'froni t.lsbod lieitilvait th .. t conjecture ire have Wog entertained., teat this French Medi. tate an early attack on Patina!: " the ?teeth; we understand, ere iiilteetieg, troops at Wahiawa fee the Wastes Of ibis koentryi but ee she out bo attacked until the* 'asSiberi ire far seVertor to t° l own.“ We 'repeat that there is not it hope event thit we can defend Portliest. Wt iteter n tholight there war. Twit ineekauslikk resoortes of this eonntrY iii stlength admitted,even by Mr. 'ton and Mr. • HosktssoN, to be no longer capable of minister ing to that wanton end shameless system - of. worn - . _ Sion so fatally introduced--and pursued with poste:, • irerattee so obstinate, so blind, it 6 infatuated, from the moment that the first crusadelgaius,lFrince *al undertaken by thell i a hit C—Ve.. - ......ri PITT. What m Ist the etheiroro a tbii perpiiitallyinhtatingStatesmati the PM Ct*b liisomossediokink of,thepteichourtible doctrine---when the opinion, of Men sointimateli acquainted as aro Mr. Roast and Mr. Hosiissen with the pounds, shillings, and pence,. of tier. et. pOnelitare—it length succumb beneath the etas. mutating and oreirwheiming Prestuee of taxation. The haVo'r of /hi speeches of those Gentleitsys last niiht,ln the COms'aittee 'OO the Army Estimano, is totideas reran--thit wo are arrived at theist pies Oltri of tivAden I Have the:: not, for year; been Warned of the approach and certain arrival of that period.? "The great difficulty we hare now to utnetritnter, is the failure of our inances!"-- It reqeired but the intelligence of Ministers to centrlisce all thinking men of that fact; all such have Seen, for year; the gradual' approach of that calamity which seems so snddenlyt 0 have burst on the vision orMinister.. To that economy, the necessity of *Melt is now acknowledged, even by the very seen who hare assisted in bringing us Utile brink of the pretipice en which we 40114 duty have, for tear 'Meaty years, turned a deaf stat.•;.!-cainstantly ridiculing the prophetic spyrtibetti Illesits of all those, to whom' hey now come with' a whining discovery of the danger that *Arcs 'us is The fate t . . katlik,. the AiSattolo Irith *hid *e are tar. sona4adi web 11411nolsever, the tewsolation of fisting lesaelisili .4 !Os" part of the Adtaisitt. irides's. Allki naafis seiss.lou rammer of the .reiltrallitlrerrtnt: by ., tba identification of the body 'of . tit s ls hollir of that offs*, theft Mr. Ocatevat.—within even h few hour; laudably a/tablas that rho public sertict should no longer suffer by the suspension of the du ties of that important - effice—set 'off in a post. chaise and tour, :for Windsor=from witente be returned at half put one in the m orning-with the appointment its his pocket of-•-:-g.wlto 1 Mn. Cheat es YORKS, Member for the County of Cambridge. .--.......- • Gun Readers will recollect rts to have stated, about the period At the sailing of the Expediinn , „ thit there was reason to believe this important en. ' terprize was undertaken ht the suggestion of a 2 1 4• tociant in this metropilis, grounded on the infor. mation derivedfrom 'some of hisCorrespoOdeni in Rutland.--that such was 'the fait, weenye little doubt. And In 'As Report of the Secret Com. mittee, ono of the " hiclerurei" from Holland is doubtless referable to thii Correspondent u rho Author. What • wrest the. country think of Ministers, who, with sack means, upon suchi in. formation, should undertake such its enterplice 1 —What becomes of ' ill - 'the secret service money ? The moment is certainly approach. lug, *lien Inquiry will go beyond VA' secret examination of Officers at the liar of the House of Commons. ‘ rhat Iniedry . Will be open -- in • the face of the People • of t Vatid.,.is despite of Mr. Vottaa, reroartted as he has hetet by the Tel. lersMp of the Exchequer I . We lament the pressure of tatter *Ale% too, Strains no to dota, anti) to-morrow, the satiffee, dory and milling Esaminatieo of L a na Chatham. No rehtdatice la answering diroody to the vies. tine repeatedly put to him, la regard to the papers ,privately delitered by him is, fits Majesty !! l• 'f h. ik a sags delivered lest night by Mr. Put• wit:, in answer to the Address of the House, so - , tko subject of soy suer , paws . that ''' tt have been tethered . pt. the apt of tO L AVIA*, Is beyond Meager, tdkraestlellillp .To it inotirs can we finputt die hard lilt tbs. Ifeblii Earl t . • . lc, The latter attired at rete116414111401‘014 1 which she left on the flth, .• etstib*lstillt:tt e Moo to be, that Clain. cannot bitat. steed *Mead at Portsmouth, i le tt eft ii WI .. WA Wool* taken, . - • - , ftesolmnsiwtoollglik . 50p0,.-oTo.ilay .there . iso CoUtt if Al; oleo, tise Lord Mayor,' , in'irttrltti ihfr A s, 5111proisi ottlersd It I. ire ' . i. it the - freseut . .''- ...* • • .'-':,''...1 • .1 • , •• 9 • • , t;