The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-12-22 00:00:00

- 's . IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, Dec.2l. The House met yesterday at the usual hour, when Mr. LUSIIINGTON brought up the Report of the Committee on the Stale of the Nation. On the reading of the Resolutions, Sir F. Butt beTT ruse. 'The Seems tat spoke to a point. of Or tier, and the Hon. Bart. resumed his seat. On the second reading.of the Resolutions — Lord w..nessELL observed, that though he differed iu many points from the Hon. Bart. yet when the doctrities he mentioned were such as might benefit the country, he would nut find a more determined partisan. Ile had Opposed the proceeding by Bill in 1788. Ills opinions were the same now as they were then, and he should again oppose the principle. The Resolutions then pro. posed were proposed not so much from an opinion of their being necessary in the first. instance, as froln'the circumstances which arose out of their de bate. An assertion of the Prince's right to the Royal Authority hail been then set up, and it was • in opposition to that assertion that the Minister of that day moved them. No such claims had' now been advanced, and consequently Ministers had not the s nue excuse as their predecessors to urge in justification of their conduct. M concluded by moving the previous question. Sir FRANCIS BUItDETT rose to support the Amendment which had been just moved 'by the No. Me Lord. The Noble Lord had stated his reasons in opposition Its the Resolutions to which, they were now asked to agree. lie (Sir Francis) rose to add a few in addition to those of the Noble Lord. He thought, in the first place, that the ground taken by the Noble Lord in his opposition to that Resole. tins was such as imperiously to require an answer from those Gentlemen, who relied so much upon the argument of necessity ; it became those Gentle.. men to stiew in what this necessity consisted ; in his opinion the necessity had not been as yet math; out.; it appeared to be but a false prereuce to do that which nothing but extreme necessity could justify. Why was there the discussion, the contrariety of opinion which they had already heard ; if, indeed, it was a OM of necessity, necessity admitted of no alternative; but here there was an alternative, there. fore there could be no necessity ; we might do ei ther of two things, consequently we were put im. mediately compelled to do but one of them : it was not necessity, Gentlemen might call it expediency, convenieveir, or by any other pliable and indeliiiite term., but necessity they could not call it. The Noble Lord had stated, and had stated strongly, ' that the bare assertion of an ahstract•proposition by that House could have no influence on a question like the present, and was its most cases' to be' depre cated. Of this there could be little doubt ; an as sembly reinstituted as that was, made up of parti. Iles so fleeting and so changeable, could not he thought to bind either others or themselves at diffe rent periods. The mischief arising from this fully had been but too obvious, hence was it that as every House of Commons had a rigid to an opinion, and the expression of it,.that the Journals of that House exhibited such a motley specimen of repugnant opi nions and contradictisiy .resolutions ; therefore, had be been always hostile to that llouse, •or any As. Sembly so composed, teking upon itself the province O' laying dowwabstract propositions, alternately confirming and contradicting each other. The No ble Lord had all* adverted to. the great difference whiclisexisted between the cjrcumstences that at. tended the introduction of the second Resolution go the House, in 1788, end at present —then, it ap peared, that in the course of the discussion, the question of right had been advanced, it rested upou the opinion of an individual, an opinion which the Prince of Wake did not sanction ; now, this opinion iu favour of the question of right did appear to him (Sir Fraucis) nut to be well founded, for where there is right there must be law—right is, • in fact, law ; and where there is no law there is nu ! *right. Ho therefore hit - erred, that the Prince's sue. cession to the office of Regent was not absolutely matter of right. But he • would here ask, if thistle cuuld be right only where there was law, by what right could that House assume to itself the power of providing the.means of supplying the defect in the Executive Government ? Where was the law which warranted the right of such assumption ? And if the law could nut be found, he would ask, how came they by the right ? There was, 'how ever, this difference between the supposed right of the Prince to the Regency, and the supposed right of that house to nominate the Regent, that in the former case there could be no doubt of the fit ness and expediency of the Pi ince being the Re gent, though there must be doubts as to the expe dience of that Homes usurping the power 'of ap.. waiting any person Regent. The [heir Apparent ought ter succeed * the Sovereign Power, its every_ cure of the demise of the Crown. The present ease was isalensise of the Crown.[lleue,'heor i] This supposition was in no way inconsistent with the actual and existing integrity of the Kingly Power. ' , tall other cases of demise, the Heir Apparent to • the Throne was designed to succeed to the Govern. silent 'the Country. In former periods of our history, in the event of the imprisonment of the ioigaing Monarch, of his being driven out of his i.iiigtlunt, and in being abient frorn his dominions, es in the case of Edward the Fourthe-in all such eases, the expediency and fitness Of the next heir succeeding to the Pzecutive Power 'during such des nose cuuld not have been queitinited. He thought this, indeed, to rest upon. a vital principle of the Cetistituttou, which regarded time parts of the Cone ritutivii as distinct of themselves, however united or mingled in their joint. co-operation. 'L'his, he Lad tin doubt, smolt' be providing fur the defect in the Executive, in a way . more consonant to the swami painciples of the Constitution. And he saw no tt .,,, 0 n why the Minister should not tall for a (em titer delay tii pass his onono mea s ure, *heti the , same ;wisest: could be 1140 q: coustitutimially seered without any delay, or at least witho'st more titan the delay of two or three days. They had now been six weeks without a Government, and he saw no reason for•adelieg to that delay by preferring tine' anode of proceeding tq another, which was not only envie constitutionaf, but. would be productive ofl comparatilely no vela), to say nothing of the • • •• House being called Upon to exercise a right which did not belong to • it. A Learned Gentleman had last night asked, if, because the King was to be in capacitated, the House of Commons was to be ascii- , pacitattd also ? - In times inure pure, and-with re. tweet to the conformation of that House, .infinitely more perfect, no such - right was claimed, and the want of it was not thoughtan incapacitation. But howwas the louse incapacitated by not ossuinieg Oat; province which the Constitution has not given to' it ? The way of its ditty in the present case is clear and plain—in addressing the Pinta, and offering him in that Address an opinion, and grounding upon that opinion a request, we do not usurp a disputed power, but exercise an undoubted right— we adhere to the good old sound principles of the Constitution, by keeping within the sphere of their own rights and duties. The perfection of the Con. ititution was its . simplicity—which course was more analogous to that simplicity—the doubtful, indirect, confused, and inefficient proceeding by E.ll, or the sfmple; easy, direct course of Address ? r llcar !] And yet we' are now, after spenolieg six weeks in doing nothing, to give rise to still greater delay, by preferring the former course to the latter. r The Honourable !brunet then proceeded to animadvert upon the observations, which his remark, relative to the Corporation of the City of London, had called forth from a Right Honourable Gentle ' man (Mr. Canning). He - congratulated the Right Honourable. Gentleman upon his restoration to those powers of pkasantry, which, unfortunately for the entertaitiment of the House, had so long beets clouded. lie (Sir Francis Bordett) was not surprised, that the national calamity, which that Right ilonoitrable Gentleman had been so lustre. mental in producing, had eclipsed fur so long a time his chatacteristie gaiety ; it was not to be wonder ed at, that the Right honourable Gentleman should grow somewhat grave,. in conteinplatiug the dread ful marks of death, which the Walcheren Expedi tion hail inflicted upon his country. He thought that while the country was labauring undei the mi. series of that disgraceful expedition, the merriment of one of the authors of those miseries would hate been better spared, more particularly of him who stood before the public, self-cotivicted of having acted in concert with a cUlteague whom he liati avowed and denounced as 10.10, unwortby, and iti efficient—here, indeed, there ryas-more than enough to suspend any unseasonable ollerica, conscious as that Right Honourable Gentleman must has been that if , ever there was a Minister of this country nhu•dcserved impeachment, it was that Right Hu nourable Gentleman, for his conduct in that trans. action. No wonder then that the sense hf his sans. tion had depressed those -light and airy _sallies of pleasantry in which that Right Hon. Gent. so much delighted, and which, however deficient in instruc. tion, could not be said to be wholly destitute of amusement. Now, howtver, that the Right Holt. Gentleman has happily been. restored to the exer. else of his suspended powers, 'he (Sir •Francia) would advise him to he more select its to the sub jects of his jukes. kTite Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Cooncil'of the City of London ate to be found in the best parts of our history, taking a zealous and active part in defeoce,of the rights and lihertioa of Flioilishmen—they sal together with the first orders at the State, and in that convention they did not prove themselves unworthy, of co-ope. rating with the highest of the Nubility in the work awhich was then accompikheil. They have been in the most trying times of our history ii.great weight in the scale, and therefore, had they been a party in addressing the Prince, it did not appear to hint (Sir Francis) . that such a proceitling would be a subject worthy of a jest, and However the Right Hon. Gentleman may appear to despise the City of London, he had not thought it beneath his dignity, When Secretary of State, to meet at dinner a set of jobbers and contractors at a tavern, and even to condescend to vary their conviviality by sage speeches. The Honourable Baronet proceeded next to observe upon the speech of a. Learned and Honourable Gentieman, who spoke from the 'Bench' behind hint (alluding, we believe, to Mr. 'fouler), that.speech, considered as a whole, he thought very candid and intelligent, but there was one part of it from which he must dissent ; it was that part where the !olarnad Gentleman seemed .to argue, as if there was a law beyond the law ; a constitutional something to . be found only in the practice of Parliament to this he could not assent or if there was such a law, he confessed his under- Standing to be too narrow to comprehend it ; he could only take, as law, what was to be found in the Statutes, enacted by the Legislature, and not the variable ptescriptions, or contradictory• usages of the different parts of that Legislature. What was called the practice of Parliament, was but ano ther name for a ii ass of inconsistency ; practice may be inconsistent, but law cannot be contradic tory. Whist is a Constitution, but certain things established ? But to - talk of alaw, 'which was be. yond the law, was to talk of a Constitution in the, air. With respect to the assertion contained in the words of the present Resolution, he objected to the'assumptiun of a right'which did not belong to them, and he objected to the proceeding intended to be founded upon it, because he thoughtahat such proceeding, went to wake the House a part of the Crown, and that too, after the defect its the Execo. , tivc had been supplied. He thought it absurd to contend that it was doing the same thing as to the exercise of legislation to proceed by Address and to proceed by . Bill ; itt the former, the will of the Executive, or •Of the intended Regent, was pre. served independent of the act of that House, and thus the Constitution was not violated by 'one past of the Legislature usurping the time. Lions of another. [Hem . ! hear I .] But the Great Seat had been brooglit forward in the debate, as if the very name Was to operate as some magic spell uponlheir understandings, as if the Great Seal had . been a sort of talisman—it-was even to alter recce dentsi At the-Revolution there was no Great 'fore ; present there was a Great Seal, and there 'fore it: was absurdly urged that the cases were not I- analogous. • BUt what was the principle which gave life to the Great Seal, and all the other fortes of the Reiolution—it was that the people had a share in the Government, and that there was a coutruct he. tweets the people and the Crown ; this was the prin. civic then established, and which would not be TkIE STATESMAN. . , pretended 'ought not to be allowed even at this time its due intinence. For these reasons he should vote for the previous question ; but had he no other reason for resisting that Resotutitm of the Committee, new before them, than Ida conviction of how unwise and unnecessary it was fur that House to pass Resolutions laying down abstract propositions, he should oppose that Resolution. lie concluded by declaring that the House had no right : to supply the defect of the itoyal Authority, not being &lull and true repre sentation of the people. The proceeding was sub. eersive of the principle of the Revolution, and he would certainly take the sense of the House upon it; or ratter he would divide the House in order to have the objection recorded on the Journals, for as to the sense of the House that would be according to the sense of the Chancellor of the Exchequer pronounced from that tripod where.his delivered las oracles. . Mr. LAMB censured the delay Which had taken place, but had no doubt of the right of thefflouse to remedy the defect in the 'Coustitution, A Ueda ration had been made iii the L e ong Parliament (which the pattiots of the present day thought ought to furnish a precedent) to that effect. In 1612 it was resolved, that it 'was the distinct and 'ancient law of England, that in the incapacity of the per. sell holding .the Executive Power, the natiett,could nothe lert without the means of preservation, and it'was therefore for the two Houses to take such measures as might appear, expedient. This he con. tendeil was sound doctrine, though the conclusion they Caine to in consequence was erroneous.. He was of opinion that the representation of the peo.. pie was imperfect, and that it might be changed for the better, but her by no• means agreed with the lion. Bart. (Sir F. Burdett) generally. Of what anarchy might not that Hun. Bart. (who was so. anxious to guard agaiust anarchy) be-the cause, &weeping away sa many' Acts of Parliament, and referring all to the decision of popular assemblies. What could be more incousistent than the conduct of that Hun. Baronet in speaking thus and acting as he had dune ? It was but a Session or two ago that he moved for a Committee. to inquire into the slate I of the representatioq of, the people, intending, as i I he (Mr. 1, ) presutned,te gip:hole Bill thereon fur the amendment of the same. If thus were nut a legal House of Commons, in .his opinion, why did he act thus ? Why did be seek -a- remedy which must be illegal if they *were such is he descrilnal them to be ? The lion. Gesst. then .proceeded to censure the delay which had :occurred. He thought it could not be coostitutionelfor the House' so to adjouttcfrom time to time, leaving-the Execu tive Power in the hands of whoever might chance to be Ministers. It was impossible not, to sympl. thize in his Majesty's ,afffctien. The precedenrof 1788 1 he maintained, was not. applical:lc to the present case. Ale then proceeded to ipeai•cif the mode of authorizing a Regent to exercise the func. tions of Royalty.. The mode of proceeding by Address was most expedient as well as most con. stitutional, and the same provisions could be metre proceeding in that way.as by Bill. They ought ever to view the Executive Power with suspicion— not with any feeling of. attimosity, but with a pro. per view to the welfare of 'the nation. He then sr gued on the improbability of the Regent's being supported by the People in opposition to their own interest*, and in opposition to Parliament, adverted to the conduct of King William shortly after the Revolicicio, and .conctuded, hoping the House would reconsider the subject. • Mr. STEPHEN thdhght the House had a • dif. knit part to perform. He contended their. con. duct ought to be regulated by great constitutional p rac i ieds and not by the proceedings in the Courts of Law. A great constitutional principle could be established by a single precedent, which they were not.merely eetitled,..but absolutely bound to fol low. It was the pravices• of the Constitution which made the Constitution,. and it ,was difficult to find more than one precedent fur some of its most sacred principles. . The Crown, for instance, was hereditary, but the succession differed mirth. : from the succession to an' ordinary estate. The precedent by e hich thit was established, was by that ;furnished on the death of . Edward VI. That Monarch dying, loft his two sisters, .Mary and Eli. zabeth, behind. In ordinary cases, the two siters would have been declared to be coheiresses to their deceased brother, and as such, would hitve been entitled to equal •sharet of his property: In the case of the succession to the Crown, the Constitu tion decided. that Mary, being the eldest, should as cend the Thrane. That was the only precedent to be found. After Some further ebservatioos on the rules of the succession to the Ciown, he adverted to the precedent of 1788, which he regarded not as being less than a precedent, orsof less authority than a pr'oceediug in a Court of Lew, but as he:. iug more. Ile looked upon it as having establish 'cd a new canon of law. The power could he con. stitutionally given by Bill, and ;legit not to be given hy Address. The Regency Bill did not pass in 1789 because of the happy recovery of his Ma jesty. The proccudiogs of that day furnished a full and complete precedent as they had been ratified by the King. It was with great surprise that he heard that mode of proceeding censured as it had'beem An Act, he contended, would be amore effectual restraint on an improper exert-he of authority than the declaration proposed to be made with Andress. With respect to the Great Seal, it hiellteenrwell ob. sensed, that there was this distinction between the Revolution and the present state of things, That a King was then wanting us well as a Great Seal. Any silversmith, had a seal been all that was want ing, could have supplied them with one, but they only wanteil a seal to give the assent of the King, • and they had at that time no Keig. The two cases were very di.similar, as, in the present in stance, we have a King, and whaterei may be done must be dune in the name of George the Third. The present, he would' not say was analogous to -to that of 178 S, unfortunately it was the same. With respect to the alleged delay, he maintained it, so far from deserving censure, was entitled to approbation. ,It had been stated that the Report of the Physicians afforded no hope. of 'the recovery of his Majesty: He had read the Report a second time, a n d saw nn cause for making so melancholyj a statement. On reading it, he found.(blessed be . God !) abundant reason to hope his Majesty would recover. AU the Physicians o f his Majesty's malady to be ed to„ have proceeded from tl rOwto the Royal Family, ject of so much regret to th, Gentleman went on with gr the afflicting circumstances the Priucesslia.• Ile which we cannot do josti4 Royal Nrcut when visitiu, it was his to mourn her 'the parental feelings of his ration, they held odt a a constitution like his, uul (rob], the effects of the Every matt who could feel patisize in the distress of Iris him for his virtuous affect Ills tears were h.tilowed— , of a Poet, who *ell knew 4, Some feelings are to 4, With Iris (dearth to " And if there be a banyan tear. " F•unt passions (truss reen'd a , " A tear so geode awls.) nieel " It would not stain an Ai,tet's " 'Tis that which pious father " Upon a guiltless daughter': It bud been his Majesty's lot to weeks and months, the distressin j child. He could not but feet mm he read of the manner in which hi s the Report of the Physician on daughter; and when he'figured tr rabbi form, approaching his chili with his yet remaining sessees the and fainting respiration of the am wanted fortitude to repress the stv Honourable Gentleman then paid praise to the virtues of the So , those who were so impatient at gvric, and condemned that spirit which unnecessarily impeded th( ierviitg, ut the s.snie time, jhat th very impatient of delay did not ably quick not& of *proceelling, that in the Irish Parliament fillet( lost on a former occasion in debar ' Mr. C. W. WYNN g maintii duty of the two Houses to supvl . the Executive Power. He thetigt ceetl by Address, though he had II legality of giving the power ' merely a question of expedien, way they inight give the power, it would be equally valid and kil spect to what had been said • on ratified the proceedings of 1788, served, that the Kiug's speech was dered the speech of Ministers, ar but their ratification of their owl If no opposition was made to the on that occasion, it was because to disturb the harmony which prow jesty's happy recovery. He c. which had taken place, and descai the inconveniences which might al pension of the - Executive Power. once assumed . to itself - the privilege Act independeot of.t he Royal san uo knowing Where it would at. proceed to the length of passing ing the Royal Authority itself. ', 1788 having never beeo acted on, considered as an opinion expressed than a,measure adopted by it, ar not be presumed to possess the which proceedings actually * folio titled. Mr. WILBERFORCE said, extremely sagacious its discovering of his Right Honourable Friend, pletely bitid to those of their Otte !edged that there were objections proceeding proposed , by his Ri Friend, but this was a case of dir th e r e Was no way of escaping w ject to some objection. Those' posed the plan of his Right H 3 however, recommended the mods it were free front all objection; necessary to create a Ilegent, ei WAS done.. Vet the very next mi obliged to confessr that ' he woe but, in consequence of a certal standing, Would be bound to cot strictions they might chase to int' disclaimed restrictions in terms, 4sim the full Executive Power, time, they imposed on him term 'cede. Teis seemed •to him to ' and fraud equal to that of whit as-attaching to the plan of his RI He could not think of the Ili' the precedent in the year 1789 , was. impossibld IN say how far tbslk high character of the Prince of W son for investing him .with tiali. might scree as a dangerous precede:as Ills present conduct did him eter like all good subjects of this real lihment to provide for the dello for their decision, before he matter ; but still it was this duty , recollect, that they were legislati to come. tiowiar alterations mig, the' limitations proposed by hie • Friend in every other respect, c: his Majesty, he was i,ut now I . llear ! hear ! .fram Mr. Pert Mr. STEWART sppported Addresi. Ile had approved of seeding in the year 1789, in the and he did so from attachment U the House of Brunswick. ' Mr. GRXTTA N . remarked, might he eietsiUsited as it affected the country, and as it might iur of public atfaiis. We beheld I a manner suspended, and it foils duty of the Estates of the Real was deicient in it, aptito rester I gour. ' • This,however, he entice by the . represen Wires s&( .the,kiSt' ' bled, and did not see the necesm those Couveutions whleh were. i ► s had knot'statend th e eaoa taimi i; it was slit, tit t that fatal sourc e er,„r. erds Which had been a nh. 'hi' 6 , the nation. The If tm. O r ;teat feeling to speak at their attending the death gf 'fh ei I described, in terms 11 icr., the di s t ress of the soy of PI ug hi s beloredChil att'it I,,,peless state. Waal to'"1 Majesty culled deo. reasonable hope, litki otelit )broken, world ramet To shock it had received, seri' ► as a father mast sra. cede' Nhiestx; and rererre eo a I :don towards his chikt. the — to use the lange. 44 f e et how to affect the hew, 3 mot ints 17;31 fit them Ihan Iteav'n ; - 1)3111 ( '.11: Cm( tee's heal;' to sing situation , ref his receir n t on e of 4u he d to himself his reoe. contemplate, r e i ti i ge e l e c h t la y s w 6 Ae l t ti re Yal tmi l l a t rn a tetb i a : r t th t: yl i e to.f l e t r : i . ' mnctt a ff ecteil the ur the amiab elia, I;e startin r. Th e aid a ibut e of Si h v e e a r r el b g i hit c 6" ci rt rptichittitof progress,tro i r a er2 r at : 11 . • g lt t , t ill as c:r7) h p e oWse r h e u t a n ir•senniebirl.e.tr,ll7 7i tahsl at:b t, 4t r ev i t rr h e 'll. d g daysti i n t l ► a to ► ti: a:11.11171, t!„ ed :tl,l,l4tir he t the better 4efiiCie t i o ltY pi i • d no doubts as t o oy :r by .13:11. It if al tl envy, and wileh t i e r to 181 the Address was s t u s t should ialliyn b oc e po e o n ti,:v to the •act of gins, hi V* With t, Of sn the 'king's la p at revailed " ; . i n v el in s a ol ,s l l :l ll e r n i "r e lo cv i ced i t a h tsh e l i i enw i r s 4efi d st l Ir al encauted ar length., it arise from the sus er. When thane r ivilege of passing I sanction, there w stop; it .00 Cu 1 ,fug a Bill for oohs f. The precedviii on, was rather to ressed by Pali= , and as such, coo. le same authority 'oilowed up were • ;aid, Gentlemen w ling defects in •he pl mil, but seemed co. t own. He sets° Lions to the mode s Right llonoureh' 'difficulty, from eh' IT which was not se se Gentlemen who 0 , Honourable Frin , mode or Address as ; that it was merci and then every thi , et moment they we .vould haven° poser. !errant private under consent to *lnhere impose on him. The is, and sienksl to gir r, while, at the sr crms to which he wi • to be a species 01)1 .1 ' rhich t hey . coin plained s Right lion: Friend • longs deviating Ira 89 ; as if they did. r th.w . might go. Tb of Wales was no r snlimited power, AS 'eccdent in other m • eternal honour. real nT, looked to PA .I.eficieney, and !lII' 1 , 1 t at- all interfcredm t lutr of the Ilovse slating for generate' is might not be nude his Right Hoovers. except the costal, s ow prepared to say. 'crceval.] ' the proceeding of that mode of p r' the Irish Parham it to the King, and . ced, that the gash' :ted the Constitution itifluence the situati.. Id that Constitution ollowed that it wall realm. to supply ab. store it to. its former tit-I-mind might he d ' ,Estates already asse. :cessity of resorting crc accessory in r . •