The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1808-02-16 00:00:00

ern the hal fo;. rad mut &at !eta ) be lion nity not pre- pee& iosu dive inistes most be untle with respect, to the Rro duction of paners•for the present iisqeiry, from the mew c i rcu mstance of there being it change is His Alsiirsty's Councils, before it wad Latussilsle for them to know what were the dosnnientio of -wide+ Go-- yew/lent were possessed. He should have wished, • however, that these were the only difficulties that, presented themselves upon the present °e ,:1111a u :i on this topic. '!'here was a promp titude in the former government to produce all dot:lintel:La that could be available, or that a reasonable man conk' deem importeut. M there were many outlet:len nuaelnainted with the manner in which the Beard of Admiralty was t ouducted, be should take this opportunity of ad rcrting to it. The High Admiral being usually a Cabinet Minister, a great deal of the most import wit communications of the Board of Admiralty passes immediately through the hand; of the Find Lord Coto inhalant himself, and indeed more so than in any other public, Board, and a great deal of !minims.; pusses also between the First Lord of the Llmirakv and the Commauding Officers of His gajesty'; fleets and sq unit roes. Ile was desirous to know what papers had come more imme diately into his own poszesnon as First Lord eutnissioner of the Board, and what were likewise to be found at the Board. He knew what papers bad bean tree heitted by the Com manding Officers of Squailrous at the time he quitted the Admiralty. but evntleinett must re cellect, that a great deal of the eoiumunicatioua with Admiral Lord Daekwortis, as to the Darda nelles Expedition, as well as with Sir Thomas Louis, must have, in feet, arrived six weeks after the change of the Goverinueut. lie quitted the sid.iiinslty in April, and the papers must have ar lased iu May. He did not know whether the com iiinuication or report made by Sir Thaw.' Louis, a. 'lea commanding a winadron of three sail of the hue, the advanced guard, as he might can it, of Ad uu Duckworth, had been presented to the Board. lit meant the report made by that officer to Lord a.eilingwood, as to the state of the Dardanelles, tie Turkish fleet, and this lueteries at Constanti nople, dated the Sth of December, 1801$. Six weeks after the order was given for the expedi tion in question, it being signed upon the 2&h of November, not knowing whether the Lords of the Admirulty were powered of a copy of that docu ment, he took en opportunity of sending them ' ear. . From this the Howse would see, that if there Were an- question as to the insufficiency of the force of the expedition so sent, there could not be any better document than the regular report of the actual state of Constantinople at the time the brat part of Visa fleet sailed for the Dardanelles.— Il e st a ted to them, at the same time, that he did not know whether any duplicate of that,cornranni cation hail been sent to the Board. The answer he received from the Board of Admiralty was, that this did not know whether any such pane? ezisted ; but at any tate their Lordships thought it could be of no further use to the public, the business to which it related being concluded ; and they ac cordingly returned my communication. Now, he begged to observe, that daring the time he was attached to that department, there was a great va riety of papers prestincil to the Board, upon which uo measure was to be taken, but being perfectly harmless, remaiuediunocently iu that mansion, the Ailtairaitrboarst% •wiahnnt any perm ever thinking of throwere theta out of the window, or casting them back in the face of those who sent them. This document, however, together with two certified copies of letters written by him to Lord Coning wood, were returued to him by the Board of Com miesionerr. He had heard suggestions that Alexandria bad been attacked in tune of peace, and knowing that a letter had been written by bite, as Fula Lord or the Admiralty, to Lord Collingwood, tilling his attention to the determination of Go vernment, that no ineasitve of hostility must be bad recourse to until Mr. Arbuthnot, His Majesty's Minister at the Porte, had declared to him that the result must be war between the two countries; with that knowledge he thought that that was not en unimportant dncument to present to the Board, certified, mate had not the original, it being in the enatody of • Lord Colling.sood, who was then in the Mediterranean. There could be, there fore, no difficulty in moving, with the accus tomed civility of a Member of Parliament, that these additional documents be laid be- fore the Hodge. Ile took an op portunity of bending back these docume n t s t o t e Admiralty Lords; not in his capacity of having formerly titled that official situation, but by the privilege which he enjoyed, along with every other subject possessed of aieheette documents, of communicat e:, them to a public Board. He rather thought it was extraordinary in that Board still to deny these dezuments house-room ; the more especially there was every nossibility of their being of utility, both as a pulific document, and a justifica tion of the conduct of Lord Colliagwood. Mr. WaraLxn.r.v P.n.s said., the Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down, appeared a great deal astonished at the refusal of the Board of Admiralty to place upon their records certain let ters sent by that Honourable Gentleman to the reed for that purpose. If that Honouruble Gen ieman had, at the time he was vacating the office, which he filled at the Board of Admiralty, required to have these letters, which it appears he was then Pliv'ssed of, placed upon the records of that lioattl, he, Mr. Pole, was satisfied there would •e no difficulty in effecting it: if the Honourable (Icatiensaa, in his situation of First Lord of the Admiralty, had written thwae letters to Lord Col lingwood, which he has alluded to, it was his duty to take care that they were put upon record pre vious to his vacating his office. He thought. the Ho:pourable Gentleman ought to have very well known that private +lett e r s , wr i . cen by a First lord of the Adm i ral!„ ( y e, which be wished to be made public, should, at the time of their being written, be noon recorcl. No L o rd o f the Admiralty could, consistently with the practice and fume of that Board. re ceire letters uncle, the etrcnnuitancesnmentinned by the Hoziourable Gaatleassan. lie thought it rather strr.nge in the Hoot. Gentleman, after being in posseasioa of letter from Lord Colling wood near tea months, now to co:ne forward and demand to have them put upon the records of the ~13_3ard f tdm_irait,..v. He recollected that some Past we non. ceratlaaaas bad written a letter to Lord Mqtgrave, iaeloalog some communications frtn Lord Collingwood to the Hoa. Gentleman. He some time after, as well as he could recollect, saw another letter of the . Hoa. Gentleman, in which the Urn,. Gentleman requested Lord Mul grave to return him the letter and commuuica tious seat him (Lord Mulgrave) as they were not fit to be seen by every body. Those letters, he' multraood. were returned to the H. 311. Geutleinan. Hf believed that those letters' were the identical ones the Hon. Gentleman now required to be placed upon the reconls of the Admiralty Board. H 8 begged to ask the Hon. Gentlemati, if the practice was admitted of recording letters at the Admiralty Board, which were in the possession of the party 'eluting then' for such' purpose many months previous to t:seir transmitting them to the Bonn!, what the consequence would be ? Ile begged to 'smw what would preveut . auv Ho:mumble Geis tleaam from sending at any time letters to the Board, and reqiiiriag them to be recorded ? It would be a practice in his mind frauied with mis chief. The Hon. Gentleman has told us that he had transmitted to the Board of Admiralty ha ant communications from .tilsnirnl Sir Thomas portent cournunkationi from Adunirul Sir Thomsi Loutv, and requested them to be recorded. Why did not the Hon. Gentleman take cure to have those important communitiationa, which he consi ders so essential in the defence of himself and his Colleagues, recorded in the Rinsed of Admiralty When be receiied them ?—And why now so unrea sonalsly come forward, and after the lapse of twelve months require them to be recorded? Ile would appeal to any Hon. Gentleman who bud ever tilled the Office of . First Lord of the Admiralty, to say if he lied ever heard of such a dema.,d? He would beg the lion. Gentleman or any of his Colleagues to say, whether they would consider it regular to place those letters upon the records of the Admi ralty Board, under these circumstances I It would be irregular and infornial in the highest degree so do so, and could answer no purpose to the Hon. Gentleman, as they could aot legally be acted on. If the Hononrable Gentleman, in the plenitude of hip power as First Lord of the Admiralty, would think himself authorised to act in this way, he was glad to find those at preseut filling that office did not feel authorised to do so. He was satisfied the House would think that the Admiralty Board acted correctly. Mr. Gatirettt.t confessed he was a little one prised at the remarks of the Honourable Gentle man opposite. He assured that Honourable Gen tleman, that he, Mr. Grenville, did not assume any unreasonable authority in cooriquence of filling the office he did, as First Lord et the Admiralty. He however could not help saving, that Honour able Gentleinam had grossly mistaken hint. The. Honourable Gentleman has mentioned that be had seen two or three letters transmitted to Lord Mul grave, and that in the Honourable Gentleman's , opinion they were the letters alluded to this night. He assured the llononrable Gentleman he waseu firely mistaken. He slid recollect sending letters to Lord Molgrave, bat they were 'of a stamp totally foreign to the present oafs. Was there a man in that House, lie would ask, who had heard of the unfonseled reports that had •been so iiidus triously circulated, as to Lord Collingwood having:l got orders to attack Aleianciria in time of veace, that could blunr him fur, making crepe' effort to prove the falsehooX of such report He therefore did feel, that the refusal of the linard, of Admiralty to record the letters stated by him; was unfair and • improper. Mr. WELLtstat• Pot.e was not conscious of having mistated the lionourahle Gentleman—no thing could be more forcign froiu his intention. He did think that wont In hal stated respecting the letter+ to Lord Collin l arood was co:rect. Mr. JoussTallifE said, that in his mind di, let; ters looked for ought not to he granted. It ap peared to him that the ni of the mono:, was to avrertain how far His Maiestr's late Ministers were culpable in the te. ledition to Constantinople. He thought it could answer no useful end, and that it had not beta the practice of the House to investigate the conduct of those that were out of office. The present inquiry, he conceived. was of a nature totally different from that instituted with respect to the expedition to Copenhagen. If Mi nisters had been proved to have acted wrong in the late attack upon Denmark. they could have been impeached, and would have been put out of office. In the present inquiry, it were useless to impeach the late Ministers, or to say they ought not to he employed. .This he conceived could an swer no pr.actical . porpose. He reconciled at the close of the American War it was not thought ne t cessary to enter into an inrestigittioo of the unfor tunate expedition nude, Lord Cornwallis. What had been insinuated about the instructions said to have been given to Lord St. Vintent, when that Noble Lord ties ordered to Lisbon, he thought was unhappily and improperly introduced into the present discussion. He was an enemy to the pre sent inquire, which could answer in his opinion no other enil than that of unnecessary tebuke, retort, and recrimination. Mr. We %DUOS said, he felt very differently on the present occasion from the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. That lion. Gentleman could see no benefit likely to arise out of an investigation into the conduct of His Majesty's late Ministers ? ‘Vhat I was there no necessity for Ifts Majesty's late Government to vindicate themselves against the foul, unfounded, and unjust charges that have been made against them —Are they to he conti nually exposed to the attacks and rebukes of those who are unceasingly barking against them ? He considered the production of those docuoients in dispensably necersary to rescue Ills Majesty's late Government from the insinuations that have been thrown against them, and to expose the venality and weakness of those who have endeavoured to asperse them. Ile was sorry to be obliged to think that what had fallen front the Hon. Gentleman over against him (Mr. W. Niel, had no ingredient in it, but that of having the misfortune to contain nothing applicable to the present purpose. The lion. GentlemosiadleVr the. private eorn munications of the Admiralty are never made public. Dot:, it follow, because the : could nor, aceonrjug to rigid rase, headed on, that they should not beiveorded ? Does tlivitobAlemle! maaamean to sap that *no transectinneArionid be re: ~~t~ r ~k. itilsject offegre4 that inote atteotion had not been paid to the rec4ring of every transaction. If this object had been *more closely attended to, we should not now have to combat against the d dicul ties which are atte apted to I.e thrown in the t. ay of our complete jostideation iu the present inquiry. lle contended, that the letters required by his Hon. Friend unit hitta, Mr. Grenville,lo be Placed upon the retards of the Board of Adiniraky. should have been done so. He thought the Board of Ad miralty were bound to have colipiied with so rea +unable a deinaad. The Hon. Gentleman has said that there are private communications which pass between the Admiralty toad others, which they are not boutid to record. Does it thence follow that they are not bound to record any thing of a private nature ? The question is not whether they are boundto record every thing, but whether some com munications may not be of such importance as that they are bound to record theta? if ever them was a necessity for the recording a communication,it is in the present ease. The moat foul and scan dalous iusiuuatiuns have been thrown oat against my Honourable Friend and his • Colleigues.— The Admiralty Board think proper not to record those letters, which would rebut, in the most effec tual manner, thane fool uspersiorm ; amid, by refus iqg to do so, prevent, us far as iu them lies, that am ple justification which would otherwise take place. If communications to the Admiralty Bourd could be shewu to be useful to the public, he could ace no reason why they should not be recorded when ever they were offered. The situatma under whit h his lion. Friend stood, required th t those letters should come in an authentic and regular form, from the Admiralty Board, and not .iminediately from under the hand of his lion. Friend, lie et,ul.l not help thinking, that the air of delicacy, shewn by the 'loom:treble Gentlemen opposite, in their offers respecting the production.of those papers re lative to this expedition, appeared to bun tt good deal affected. Why not behave iu an optii,.cati did, and manly maihser ? Ude/ not comply with the request of his Honourable Friend, and give him the benefit of haviug thole letters regularly re corded, and the advantage of their production in an authentic manner. Lord CAtTLEREAGH said, he considered the conduct of His Majesty's late Government most to blame in not having pEovided such a military force as would have prevented the disasters that attended the Expedition to Constantinople--Though he did not consider it a puhlie benefit to discuss the present question in the way it has been done, he could not, at the same time, agree with the lion. Gentleman opposite him. 'ffe considered the at r , tempt to endeavour to have letters, said, to have ' been received from Lord Cullingwood, placed upon the records of the Court of Admiralty, .in twelve months atter the transaction to which they refer had taken place, as one of the roost extraor dinary and unprecedented acts he had ever heard .of. ii. was the inure surprised at this attempt Coaling from Hon. Gentlemen who had complained so much of extracts from letters being read in this House, on the late important discussion of the Ex pedition to Copenhagen. Nothing, he conceived, could be so injurious as to admit a Lord of the Admiralty, after he hail retired from that office, to select such papers nr letters ai lie thought fit, and in twelve usauths,,A s trir to require them to be Owed upon the records of that Board. No thing could be sre fatal to the public service, as to allow private letters, which a Lord of the Admiralty had received whilst in office, and.did not think pivirei• to leave after him, to he recorded at any period after, that may bestoirit his purpose. Why require the 'auction of the Board of Admi rah/ ? Why did 'not the Iloaourable Gentleman produce those letters, and read titian to the House i 'Bibs Noble Lord concluded by expr&ssing his de cided approbation of the conduct of the Board of • Admiralty, who, 'spun this occasion, hi upon every other, had acted lajth correctness and propnety, Mr. Griativitti, in explanation, said, he lied asked the Board of Admiralty for documents, and the Board would not grant them. He had not had the means of knowing whether Lord Cellingwood had sent duplicates to the Board or not. Mr. Caonea was corn,; the papers bad been moved for ; because be did not see that any blame attached either to the planners of the Expedition to Conlitant'uOple ' or to those who carried the plea into execution. The hue Ministers might have had anterior political motives for ordering the at tack. The Admiralty were justified in refusing the application for. papers; for in so doing. they resisted an attempt to fabricate evidence. _ _ A Member, whose name we could not learn, op posed the production of papers, because it would lead to a military discussion, which must occupy a great portion of the time of the House, without at taining any object. After some observations from Admiral MARK nsu, Mr. POLE, and Mr. TAY Lot, who spoke in reply, the motions were severally put. Mr. CANN! NG objected to that part of the first motion, which proposed to lay before the House the Secret Articles of the Treaty with Turkey, in 179, beams' he wished to have time to inquire' whether any Secret Articles did exist, and whether, if they did exid, it was fit to protluce them ? He therefore moved, to omit that part of the motion, which was done, and the remainder was agreed tn. The motion or Lord Elgin's dispatch, notifying the treaty with Turkey, was then agreed to. On the motion being put for Mr. Arbuthnot's Correspondence relative to the Expedition against Constantinople, Mr. Gamin C JOHNSTOII3 moved, as an amend ment, to leave out the words" expedition against," &c. and to substitute " muses of the present hosti lities with the Ottoman Porte." This was objected to by Mr. WlLattaraltat. and by Lord HaxaY PirrrY. whosuid it was incumbent on the country to justify itself to the'world. for be ing at war with ITurkey at ull. The principle of the war ought to he (hummed. as well as the mili tary service. He was therefore against omitting any wards from the motion. Mr. Cs/rut:set proposed that the ori•_;inal Mo:ion should stand, together with the Auttodutent, wh:ch was awry(' to. The other Motions were then severally ugrred to. PATERS RELATIVE TO PORTVCAL. Aarßl lonetir, poiA:aot to it untive !:r hal Mae to wove tur pycl rel•stiVete the tionsactions of this co entry with regard to Por tugal. He said, it was necessary that the House should have full information on the proceedings ithesid.4 to hare taken place in the Tagus, in or der to rescue the lute Ministers from the impute of having orzlered au act similar to the Copen hagen Expedition. He conceived web ioforma two be necessary for the charac*er of the coun try ; and that it was the duty of Peitilidotelst to of ford an opportunity to the late Miniaterufor jaitify— log their conduct in that instance. The Hoodur4- bl e Member then moved an Address td His Mr justy, for laying before the House a copy Of the in. , structiorn !coven to Earl St. Vincent, for the direc tion of his conduct, in regard to Portugal, in 18015. A ko the instructions given at the same time to th. Earl of Rosalyn and Gen. Simone. Amnion motion was, for Copies of all. elEcial communications node by them to the Prince Regent of Portogob in paw suance of the instructions they had received &Oa this country ; stud also the dispatches they had rent home, giving en account of the pros, edingx thAt took place during the audience they had with the • Prince Regent of Portugal. Mr. Ciiittirio--.‘ Sir, I never can agree to a motion of so general a nature as this, *lnch 'canes no discretion with the Executive Gnveniment, astu what articles of information ought to be given, or what ought to be withheld. If this mutun shank be agreed to, Its Majesty would be oblig:d per haps to lay before Parliament many communica tions of the most delicate nature, tlist ought never to be suffered to meet the public eye. Such a mode of proceeding as this never was attempted until the present time; and if it be suffered to be earned into practice, it may Lead to infinite inimehiefircd difficulties. If the Hon. Genthiman had consulted cue in private upon this paracular motion, I would have cheerfully pointed out to him the mode be which he could attain his object, of receiving aft the information he could desire, or all that was uecesiairy for him to have, without any of the hi courenienciea which must result from the motion a it now stands. lint tw lay before the pnhlic ail the particulars of emery personal conference which may . have taken place between a So vereign Prince, and an accredited Minister. at his Court, is a practice that has never been resorted so until the present times, and is a practice thid roust produce infinite mischief and danger. One of the . ; rest advantages which , France enjoys , at this time, °yeti other countries. is, that the /trench Ministers in foreign States con trive to hold personal conferences with the Sera reigns at whiime Courts they reside. The *net etiquette is, that the conferences shall take piece with the Ministers of the Sovereigns. let fedi has been the astiendaney assumed by the Frnsich Ministers, that they have frequently forced thihr way into the closets of the Sovereign•, obtained au diences of them, and sometimes carried important points, while the English Ministers had frequemily to wait in the anti-chambers. The English wk. nicer*, however, seeing what had been so often desie by those of France, contrived also to Obtain admis- siivn to the prevenee of the Sovereigns, and in that respect got upoa an equal footing with the French Ministers...l3l . a it' it than now be =ern that tint use made of this intluixence, is to repeat in pul.lic all the confidential communications made by a boors reign to any of one Ministers, and to pnt the who*. ;substance of pitch coranintricatious into a news paper (Hear! bear !) a practice' unheard of MD flit history of civilized nations, ty,e irevifa ebue•- quenee must be, that every Sorel:snip it .whose Court any British Minister MAY fedide, win in future entrench himself behind Ida dltiomitte. and never hold any personal commuuicalioirs with ooe of our Ministers. The inonsii of the Hon. Gentleman is one which it is not fit to Kraut, be cause it may lend to all the consequences I have stated. lam disposed to give him every informa tion that may answer Lis purpose, but if he persi‘ts in this motion I will oppose it." Mt. ADAK said, that there was DO cireum- stance more observable, than that. in almost every debate in that Home, an allusion was made to rometlitag which passed in the other House of Par liament ; and he trusted that ducts a practice would not be suffered. But as the allusion was now made, he thou4ht proper to take notice of it. It was rather a singular thing that that person should complain of innovations, who had himself betrayed the documents which were in his posses sion, and that, too, by giving only parts and gar bled extracts of them. Vet after having done ell ins, be makes a charge against a Noble Lord its another House, for having, in cutler to save his character and .reputation, stated the whole of the documents which the Right Honourable Gentle mass had so partially and ingeniously adverted to. He protested against that doctrine of re fusing to give necessary information, because it might disclose some privase conferences. Herr a Secretary of State had priva'e vassages, from ccr tali' documents in his possession, so selected, as t o support and carry his own side of the questiot'. He afterwards refused to lay the whole of these docu ments before the House. * Had he then a right to complain of their being produced elsewhere ? He now gave notice, that he (Mr. Adam) would shortly bring some specific question before the House, the object of which would be, to know what latitude was to be allowed to Ministers in such cases, and whether they could tate the office of the Executive Government on themselves, and make use of documents in support of their argunieut, which they would not lay before the House ? The first motion was then put and *greed to. The second motion, alteted in this form, was agreed to ; namely, 4. fat copies of communications from Lords St. Viticentand Rosalyn, giving an ac count of the execution of their instructions." The third motion was that already noticed. for copies of dispatches from the above officers. giving_ an account of the proceedings at their audience of leave with the Ihince Regent of Portugal. Mr. C•ti Num again opposed this manna. Mr. SUERIDAK observed, that if an Ambit/calor from England held conferences with. no other snit hut the Sovereign at whose Court he resided, we could have no other source of information con cerning his conJuct, but the conferences with -•ich Sovereign; and wie it to be said that acne kon ferences should never be disein,cd ? At the time when we made the late peace with France, we ac knowledged the First Consul as Sovereign of that country.—(.lies..' Afar 0 When this reeve was pot , t