The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-04-20 00:00:00

THE BRITISH PRESS. deeed by any thing but discussion would GAWP ISO mutation of hostilities. The opposition to the Catholic claims had been meri torious, because it was founded on principle. And perhaps it sea because it was founded on principle that this oppixialiet was io seam degree successful. Ile had taken part in this opposition, through much odium and unpopularity, and not without some Jaeger, and he now thought it his duty to come forward and de doze that his hostility to the claims of the Catholics was teincomi. tart with the growing distress and niisery of Ireland. (Hear, heir.' Under the s e ci rcumstances . h e considered that seir.e great notional settlement was indispeneihle ; and for his part, he was ready to go all prudent, indeed all practicable lengths, to promote any measure which could secure the pence of that distracted cnun tre. If he was asked whether he now came forward with those marks of enmity, he did himself injustice—his feelings to the Ro man Catholics never partook of any thing like enmity ; but if he was asked whether he now came forward, distinguished by that opposition which formedy marked his conduct when this question was brought forward, he was constrained to answer—by no means ; ha pees an feelings were quite contrary to those which he formerly held. (Hear, hear.) Aisne of the grounds on which hi s h ost ili t y to-the claims of the Catholics stood were now wane ; many of the a - guments which he himself had used, and which he had heard used by others, were taken away, and those which remained were considerably weakened. In common sense. and in common fair. mess and consistency, he felt himself bound to make this avowal. If, on mature and deliberate inquiry, he discovered that he had been in error, he was bound at once to say so (hear), and make every atonement which it was possible, by a candid declaration of his ,sentiments lie wee well aware how the avowal of such a change of 'inion afforded ground for suspicion, and laid him open to ridicule. Ile should not wonder if uncharitable presumptions prevailed with respect to the sincerity Of such a change of opinion. He did not come forward with this avowal of his present opinions to set him s.diright with the House, but he came forward in the hope that many who now look upon the question--apart from inquiry. (hear,) veiny who are misled by old tacis, and old prejudice., and in some degree alarmed by the warning notes of the Catholics themselves, may consider the subject more closely, and judge after they have inquired. On sifting the valuable evidence which was before Par liament, it was to be hoped that many would be induced, by the light of knowledge and truth, to consider the subject more atten tively, and perhaps to grant those prayers which were so ardently pressed. It was to be hoped, that if both parties were brought leeward fairly together, they would he seized with compunctious visiting' • and instead of debating on imaginary differences, would consult t he peace and future weltare of Ireland, by giving up the grounds of contest and discontent. These considerations were forced upon him, and he was obliged to act upon them, or else to neglect his duty. As to the Roman Catholic religion, as a form of religious worship, and as such compared with other religions, he should say nothing. lie did not characterize it. " Judge not lest you be judged," was a principle applicable to this as well as many uthet questions. With respect to the Roman Catholic religion, as a system involving practical consequences and the performance of social duties, as that of weakening the authoeity which the Govern ment had a right to exercise over subject'', he should only say, that the danger had ceased, although it was not formerly free from such an imputation. So far, however, from agreeing that the Roman Ca. tholic religion still retained the character that belonged to it in for mer times, he should say that it had changed so much that he could tow scarcely recoenise its identity. What had become of that power which once sported with Princes—which caused crowned beads to tremble, and exercised a despotic sway over almost every country of Europe ? The genius of the age had given it a death. blow. That colossal power which laid claim to temporal as well es spiritual authority, had fallen under its own weight, sad WWI now confined to its own small territory. He had been-Ails particular because he apprehended this question to form the very essence of the diffe ence which existed on the question before the House. It was on this question lie had always taken a strong ground, in °presider. to the measure now before the llonee. If it should be proved that the Catholics owned only a divided allegiance to the 31 enarch, then were the Catholics still fit objens for suspi cion, unlit was just as wise as expedient that they should be ex. eluded from those trusts of which they now desired to partake. On this evidence the que lion entirely rests. If any man doubts the fulress and sincerity of the allegiance of Roman Catholics to the King, be hoped that man would have the hardihood to come for. ward and say on what his suspicions were grounded. If no such doubts existed as to the allegiance owned by Roman Catholic.. he would say—" Grant their request. or let us clue this investigation, and let no light enter upon the mystery of Irish affair.." ([dear, Lear.) What said the high-minded men who came over from Ire. lend to give evidence? )11th these men, notwithstanding the as persions which had been meanly thrown out, he was willing to make common cause. After the evidence of these distinguished persons, no argument can be maintained against the sincerity of the Catholics' allegiance; and he who should urge any thing as argu ment, must, in a 1110111e3t. he covered with signal confusion. When the question was put to Dr. Doyle if the Pope intermeddled with the rights of the King, or his authority in temporal affairs, what would be the consequence,—the reply of Dr. Doyle wee, the consequence would be, that we should oppose the Pope by all the means in our power. and by the exercise of our spiritual authority. It was the evidence of Doctor Doyle, that if the Pope sought to exercise any authority lever the temporal Vella of the King, the duty of Catholics bound them to oppese the Pope's interference in temeorel mat ten, and to support the rights of the King, ss bii 'abject,. Such was the evidence of De. Doyle, and when the question was put to the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin if the Pope's in fluence was exclusively spiritual, the reply of Dr. Murray was, in the words of Scripture, " My kingdom is not of this world." In the words of St. Augustin- therefore, we need not be alarmed with ungrounded fear'. Has the l'ope now a dispensing power, or does he exercise the right of granting anticipated indulgences? He ob. served oa those, because they were the grounds on which his former opposition was fortified, arid the grounds on which hosnlity was still offered in Ireland. Now. es to the confiscated proper, y, how c-.n it be said that the Catholics seek to recover it ? The Ca tholic have lately been the principal purchasers of confis cated property. Cortimated propertyllts considered by them to be held under the best and in at secure title, and what interest could they have in endenvourine to recover the confiscated property ? Me , - hear.) The principal dif fi culties in the way of settlement had pe en, he thought, removed. The only question remaining is, whether spiritual concerns are clearly separable from temporal, and lie did in his heart think that s p iritual and temporal concerns were plainly separable. He thought no man could say that there were any indispensible connection between them. Under these dream. stances he (Mr. Brownie's) was prepared to vote for the Hon. Baroret's motion ' • at the same time he could not think that the Bill introduced b y the Hon. Baronet was the most perfect Bill which could be framed to provide for the wants of the Catholics, and at the same time aeon the tranquillity of Ireland. The Hill Arndt! have contemplated a provision for the Catholic clergy, and the , ';fication °fens. freeholders. These measures wereindispensible to form a comprehensive Bill. But notwithstanding this emis sion, he should vote for the Honourable Baronet's 'Potion, reserv. ing to himself the power of opposing the Bill altogether, or any particular clause, in a Committee, or on the third reading, or at any period when he considered such opposition most likely to be eaccessful. With respect to the provision for the Catholic Clergy, he considered it a matter of great importance. He thought such a provision should be made—not as a debt of gratitude, due to the Catholic Clergy for their exertions in restoring peace, and mitigat ing hostile feelings; on the contrary—considering the habits of intimacy with which they live with their flocks, and the undoubted influence which they exercise over the understand. legs of the people, he did not think they could have done much less for the peace of the country. But the provi sion for the Catholic Clergy would confer a benefit u great as nny which could arise from Catholic Emancipation. It would bring a class into co-operation with the Government, which con fessedly possesses a powerful spiritual interest over the people of Inland. It was necessary to incorporate this body with the State, and he hoped when, like the Presbyterians, they discovered that no interference was intended with the independence of their reli gion, they would become good silks to the State, and remain in. separably connected with it. As to the restriction of the elective franchise, considered in every point of view, political, moral, as respects the endless subdit Wien of lands, and the endless multipli cation of beggars in this country, it would be a most useful mea sure, and one which could not be disapproved of by any party. All parties would rejoice in a measure which joined Emancipation ith the disqualifiestion of certain freeholders, and the provision for the Catholic clergy. The Rorisn Catholics would be gratified, because die measure of emancipation came home to the heart of every one of them ; and with regard to the Protestant population, he apprehended that they would consider the measures to which he alluded as the very best security which could accompany the conces sion required. The Hausecnuld not be anxious to give any triumph. It must be the wish of the House, if possible, to pass the manure that would be eatiefactney to all parties. By granting eniancipettion without accompanying it with the 'immures to which he had adverted, Parliament would estrange the Protestants ; and although Catholic Emancipation should be granted, the conflicting principle would be found meeting every attempt to encourage industry, and heal the ale iabances of Ireland. In 17V2 political power was given to the ralible, and kept from persons of property and station. He now called upon the House to retrace ihts unwise step, to take away the power from the rabble, and give it to property, talent, and stat ion. The freeholder in Ireland was now the joint property of his land. lord and his priest; he was incapable of judging the comparative merits of any candidate, and nut sufficiently independent to do so, yen if he had the power. lie (Mr. Goulbum) now proposed to give the elective power to those who possessed property and intelli. eence, and could estimate the merits of candidates. He had now laid before the House the foundations of a national settlement, which, in his opinion, would he acceptable to all, and he hoped would insure the repose of Ireland, and the security of the British empire. (Loud cheers.) Mr. BA NKES rose, but was inaudible in the gallery for several enderstood that he was of glebe houses, which had been so often adverted to in that Rouse. lb adniti n to this, the College of Dlsynonth was to be, provided tor; tor, according to Dlr . O'Connell, that establishment was in need of penuniary assistance. But surely the House would not go blindly into such an expense as this, for the purpose of ' , twinning the establishment of a religion inimical to that recogr.ised and cherished by the State. If this measure were carried, it would be impossible for the church property to ct ntinue as at pres.tnt it was constituted. If Catholics were introduced into Par:ion-ant it must I be altered. If this boon were granted to the Catholics, he could i not see upon what ground it could be refused to every other class of Dissenters. Upon the best consideration that he could give the question, he felt it to be so fraught with danger, that he should move as an amendment to the motion of the Hon. Baronet, that instead of the word " now," the words " this day six months" be inserted. Sir T. LETH BRIDGE and Mr. W. Y. PEEL rose at the same moment, but the latter Hon. Member having first caught the Speaker's eye. seconded the amendment. and observed, that if he might be al.owed to judge of the feeling of the country bythe parti cular feeling that existed upon t his q uestion in that part of the country with which he was connected, be should say that theopinion against it was as strong as ever ; for hiinselfhe would say, that so far from the day of his convey ion having arrived, as it seemed that it had with the Hon. Member who commenced the dehisce, the move he was every day convinced of the danger of gr.intiog political power to the Catholics : but even if his opinion were not so strongly formed as he was ready to acknowledge it to be, this certainly was net the time for concession. To give political power at this moment to the Catholics would be putting rather too high a premium on faction ; and, said the Honourable Member, " God forbid that' . the British Legislature should be intimidated by the Catbo lie Association, or any other associatio n , t' infringe on the Constitution." But it was said that it was hard that the many should suffer for the faults of the few ; but in answer to that he would say that the Catholics had recognised the Association. if I the dour. of Parliament were opened to the Catholics, a great change would take place in the Legislature; for if they were good Catholics they would, as a point of religion, endeavour to raise their own Church on the rains of the Protestant Establishment, and for that reason he could not trust them with political power-- Noscitar a Sachs was a trite but a true adage, and be could form an opinion of this Bill, not only upon its own clauses, but from the measures that accompanied it in the House—viz. the Bill of the Noble Lord for the payment of the Catholic Clergy and that of the Member fur Stafford relative to the 40s. freehoden. He un feignedly believed that the measure of the Noble Lora was the more objectionable proposition. If Parliament granted a provision to the Catholic Clergy, he could not see upon what ground it could be refused to those of other sects. He, in his conscience, believed that the evils of Ireland would not be diminished it' the Catholic Bill were to pass. The evils of Ireland were the want of a resi dent gentry, trade. and, above all, moral and religious education. The II onourable Alember concluded by declaring, " So long as I respect the oath that I have taken to support the Protestant Con ant:Eton, so long will I oppose any further concessions to the Ca tholics; and on these grounds I cordially second the Amendment. Colonel BAG WELL, in supporting the Bill, referred all the disturbances of Ireland to the intolerant spirit existing against it, and declared that he thought no measure but the passing of the present Bill would effectually tranquillize that country. Ile stated that the lass against the Catholics were framed by our ancestors in political animosity, and that it ill became the This age to perpe tua'e such unjust and mischievous acts. This was the gist of what we understood the Gallant Colonel to say. but his voice retched the gallery so imperfectly, that we could not hear two wisecutive sentences. Mr. G. DAWSON observed, that in consequence of what had fallen from his Hoe. Friend the Member for Armagh, and from the Hon. Member who had just sat down, he was most anxious to express his sentiments on the question before the House, and he th refore begged their indulgence for a sho:t time. It was with great pain that he rose upon his occasion, because he felt that the opi nions which he was about to declare were such as many of his lion. Friends around him would deem erroneous ; but in discharge of hie duty he was bound to declare them. He fully with them in the importance of this question. It involved most serious interests of the, people both of England and of Ireland, and throughout Nurope, he might say a geneal expectation had been excited in this matter. Both the friends and the enemies of this country expected something of he most vital import ance to result from its decision to this empire, each forming their own opinions, either of evil or of good, according to their re spective dispositions towards us. It was not surprising therefore that any man should approach the question with the greatest sham. As for himself, he could truly say he was alarmed at what might result from the decision of the question either way. On the one side he dreaded the consequences which might follow from the up holding of what was called by some a system of injustice and of political persecution : on the ether side he was equally alarmed at the introduction of a system which had been the dread and terror of many great and illustrious men, as calculated to operate fatally to the institutions and best interests of this country. On the one side he dreaded the consequences to Ireland that would follow the refusal of the demands of the Catholic body there : and on the other he dreaded the upsetting of every thing that was established not only in that country but in England also. On the one side he dreaded the consequences of leaving the unintelligent mass of the Irish peo ple to be worked noon by the insidious artsof every dangerous dema gogue and on the other side, he dreaded to invigorate andeonsolid.ate a party in Ireland which was adverse to all that was established there either in the Church or in the Governmect, and which was full of the bitterest rancour and deadliest hatred towards every thing and every person belong's& to the Protestant name. When such con. Monne consequences were poised and balanced in the scale, it was not a very pleasant or agreeable duty to decide upon which should or should not be allowed to preponderate. Most heartily would he forego such a painful task. If he were convinced, as his lion. Friend the aleniber for Armagh had been, that peace and tran quillity and subordination among all classes of the people would result from the concessions called for by the Bill now before the Howie, he would most gladly and readily follow his Honourable Friend's example ; he would abandon all the notions which he had hi , heno entertained of the dangers that would ensue from grant ing Emancipation to the Catholics, and would expose himself, as his Honourable Friend had done, to all the obloquy that might be lot upon him in consequence of a change in his opinion. But un fortunately, perhaps, for himself, he was not so convinced. What ever his opinions had been, whether right or erroneous on this great "tendon, he entertained them still, and after the best judgment he could give the subject, he was compelled to arrive at a different result than that which the Honourable Member for Armagh had some to, and lie thought those opiniene strongly confirmed by the evidence now before the House. That evidence contained such vast and extensive views of the present state of Ireland • especially as the opinions and habits o the people. It led them into the cahin of the peasant, and into the mansion of the rich; into the Protest ant Church, the Catholic Chapel, and the Presbyterian Meeting. house. In all of these pares were to be seen the afflictions of the people, and the sad effects arising from Catholic disabilities. He agreed with his Honourable Friend, the Member for Armagh, that these evils ought to be removed ; but he differed from him in be. heving that that could be effected by Catholic Emancipation. He thought his lion. Friend had not inquired what the operation of the Catholic religion was when employed in exerting a dominion over the passions. He thought his Hon. Frientl•liad allowed his mind to be influenced by the sophistry and metaphysical subtlety of the Catholic writers. Like many others, he was struck with the observation which was made on the examination of the Catholic Gentlemen before the committee. It was impossible not to per ceive the operation of the present system towards such men as Mr. Blake and Mr. O'Conneil. It would be folly not to admit that men of such talents deserved to be encouraged, and to partici pate in the privileges of their profession. It was impossible not to admire the patience and paternal zeal of the Catholic Bishops, and it was impossible not to admire also the ability of Dr. Doyle. But it was at the same time equally iniposaible to reconcile the titans lence of Mr. O'Connell in Ireland with his moderatian in England. Ili% party zeal which brake out into the most infiamatory language while in Ireland with his mild and cautious demeanour when before the Committee. lie must say, he could hardly understand how the friend of Mr. Cobbeu could be also the friend of the Honourable Member for Westminster, or how he could be at the same time the friend and advocate of Universal Suffrage and of his Majesty's Government. (Hear, hear.) These inconsistencies compelled him (Mr. Dawson) to view that gentleman's conduct with pert suspicion and distrust, and his knowledge of Mr. O'Connell's talents only served to strengthen his wishes more than his conviction. He was equally astonished at the conduct of Dr. Doyle. It was impossible to reconcile that persons writings and his evidence before the Committee. In whatever light this might be received, it must excite a lively apprehension at the success of a cause which was advocated by a man of his ability and learning, in this double character of witness and of aniline. It was without doubt well known that Dr. Doyle was a political writer, and that some pamphlets signed J. K. L., had been sent into the country, of which he was pretty well understocel to be the author. These pamphlets contained the grossest attacks upon every thing and every body connected with Protestantism, which must excite the most lively fears of every man who was at all attached to the Church of England. They breathed the moat rancorous spirit towards the laws, the bitterest hatred towards the Church Establishment, and the greatest intolerance when speaking of the Catholic religion. As a Legislator, he treated the laws with contempt, and designated them as infamous—as a Divine, he launched out into the must unmeasured expressions of abhorrence, at the very mention of any thing belonging to the Church of England he was thrown into agonies—he condemned its principles, repudiated its doctrines, and anathamitised its defenders. When speaking of his own religion, he was arrogant and bigoted, intolerant and over bearing. Dr. Doyle, in these pamphlets, presented the truest pie. me of a most pessive and adopted child of the Pope. If Dr. Doyle had lived in earlier times, Pope Boniface himself could not have desired a more ready man to upset Ireland, and involve it in all the honors of a religious war. But before the Committee the m em b er) b e i n a J es uitical way get rid of the queetion. (Laughter.) But this artifice could not succeed, for the Doctor had published his book , , in which Isis epioions on this point were re corded, and he (Mr. D.) was sorry his friend, the Member for Armagh had so soon decided in making up his mind ; because, if he had not done so, he (Mr. D.) would leave asked him to real mid compare the evidence with these letters. Dot it was not too late to call upon other Honourable Members to do this. (Hear. hear.) He therefore would ask every gentleman to compare what was stated by Dr. Doyle in the pamphlets. and what was said by bins before the Committee, and then he would request each member M ask himself how it was possible that the Doctor could be right in both. it was this inconsistent conduct on the part of Mr. O'Connell and Dr. Doyle which rendered the settlement of this great question almost impossible. The Catholics of Ireland were entirely guided by Dr. Doyle and Mr. O'Connell. The former hi Ecclealastiesl matters, and the latter in evert thing that related to polities. Dr. Doyle taught them that the Established Church was hateful, and that theirs was the only true Church. lie was univer. sally beloved by the Catholics and hated by the Protestants. Mr..O'Cotriell, by the same means, set them against every thing that was, Protestant: The consequence of all this was, that there was scarcely a Protestant in Ireland who did not dread that a very great convulsion would moue by any concessions being made to the Catholics; and there was scarcely a Catholic who did not expect some advantages to arise to their body from these concessions being made. But the Protestants, on the contrary. dreaded such a 'Measure being obtained by the hollow, dangerous, and deceitful conduct of their Catholic friends now in this country,and they could only ex p ect from it the ruin and destruction of the Protestant cause. To expect peace to prevail in Ireland, or to anticipate better things while such were the feelings and opinions which existed, was visionary and delusive. The Catholics had deter mined it should not be, for they had already begun to evince their hostile spirit. Whichever way therefore the Protestants looked, they saw nothing to diminish the danger to arise to them from Catholic roneession. He would here Tele/ to history to show the concur meet of the views of the Catholics of the present day with those of tOe past. On the 31st May, 1824, a petition was presented to this House from the Catholic Association. That petition was sufficienti; long and complex, and contained sonic sweeping at which excited even Minitel( who pre. th eu e sl ob tio s n e s n o a f t e io v n ery oe thi t ng le t i lr o t rio ss u as tab P ie rotrtan iemb t zi, see felt nted it,a certain andw onhco dyoiM.oeloh ed that moving that it should be received, as the House would express its con demnation of it. It was a curious coincidence, that the prayer of that petition embraced the very thSgs which, according to the writer of the pamphlet, signed I. K. 1. , were actually carried into effect by the Catholic p ar li at oent of 1667. In that year Lord Pro testants from their official situatior.v under Gorernment. Having Tyrconnel was Li. u'enant of Ireland, who removes( all succeeded in removing every oresr who was a Protestant, the next attack was upon the Corporatamol- heir Charters were accordingly taken away. By thus displacilog the Protestants, and substituting Catholics, a control was obtathed over Parliament. The next step, theretore, was to give a colour t.^ these sets of in justice. In 1669 an election took place, and by ti:e possession all the Corporations by the Catholics, such a ParliamOt was ob tained, that there were only ii Protestant Members in the 2ooec of Commons, and in the House of Lords there were about 46 or 47 Catholics. This Parliament passed an Act of Attainder, by which no less than 2.600 persons were attainted of high treason. The Parliament of 1689 was adopted as an example by the Catho lic Association, and the reforms proposed by Dr. .Doyle were pre cisely similar to those carried by that Parliament. The Diocese of Dublin were placed in the hands of the Catholics, and Protestant schoolmasters were prohibited from teaching. Several Popish Fellows were in the Dublin Uuiversity, and they appointed a Popish Priest the Provost. As a specimen of that reform which Dr. Doyle had so much at heart, that Parliament took the Univer sity of Dublin and 26 churches in the Diocese into its own hands, and no doubt wonld have established the Catholic ascendancy, if that career of that Parliament had not beets stopped by the battle of the Boyne. He could give no other definition of the Catholic As sociation than that it was in all respecter the Catholic Parliament of 1689. Ile beoged pardon for detaining the House so long, but he bad now satisfied himself by expressing his opinion on the measure now before the House. He was convinced that if this Bill were to be carried, instead of its giving tranquility to Ireland, it would only have the effect of producing a succession of turbulence and bloodshed, which would terminate in a religious war. Ile pre. ferret the Protestant establishment, because it breathed a spint of liberality towards all other denominations—because it conferred prosperity upon the country, and because it had the best and wisest and most learned men for its friends and defenders. Ile dreaded Catholicism, because he thought it cherished a spirit of intolerance, and was inimical to the true interests of mankind; and he implored the House therefore to pause before they deter , mined to pass the present Bill, by which that baneful spirit would be enabled to operate against and ultimately overthrow the Govern. went of the country, Viscount MILTON said, that his feelings towards this question were certainty not diminished, either by what the llonourable Member for Armagh, or the Honourable Member for London derry (Mr. Dawson), had said upon it; because he would pray this House to forget all that elks past, and look only to the future. Ile did not rise to be an apologist of the Catholics or their leaders— be had nothing to do with reconciling the writings of I. K. L. with the evidence of Dv. Doyle, nor the conduct of 31r. O'Connell in Ireland wi.h the conduct of that gentleman in England. They hail their consistency in their own keeping, and it was not his nor any body's duty but their own to reconcile their condnct with themselves. The Honourable Member who had just sat down must show better evidence than the inconsistency of those gentle.. men ' in order to prove that this measure would be attended with the evil consequences which he seemed to apprehend. In the course of the Honourable Gentleman's speech he had di • rected the attention of the House to the inconsistent conduct of the t ;at holic leaders, with a view, no doubt, to excite their jealousy, and alarm their fears at what he called the Catholic ascendancy. The Honourable Member had, with the same view, referred to these proceedings of the Catholic Parliament in the time of James 11. No person who looked at these proceedings could be surprised at their success, or at the success of the counteracting proceedings which followed upon them. But did the Hon. Gentleman really this:: that these Catholic measures could be introduced into this House at the present day, by the admission of a portion of the Catholic body as its Members? That Catholic Parliament, in 1687, WAS held under a Catholic King, who entertained the opinion that be possessed a dispensing power. But this House was very differently constituted. The Honourable Gentleman, in stating his case, had forgot half of the question, and he ( Lord Milton) would therofore endeavour to rescind the House of the other half. King James was a Catholic, and sought by every method to establish the Catholic Religion in his dominions. The Honourable Member had enumerated the mode by which this was endeavoured to be accomplished. The Protestants were deprived of their places, that the friends of James might fill them. These were the means used by King James and his partisans, who were tyrows there as well as here, to maintain their power in that country. But the true question was this—was there now any King James to excite alarm ? The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Dawaon) could not surely suppose that any thing was to be appre hended from the present inheritors of the British throne, or that any of that family were likely to desire to abridge the privileges of Protestants, and especially to attempt to do so by Catholic instru mentality. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Dawson) had made many comments on the observation of his Honourable Friend (dlr. Plunkett) relative to the lasing history in the way of an old alma nack, but in his (Lord Milton's) opinion, no one had done so more than that Honourable Gentleman himself. When he (Lord Mil ton) looked back and considered the state of Ireland as it once was, he could hardly consider the laws that were created by the Protest ants as unjust laws, because they were suffering under the tyranny oi James and his Parliament, when they enacted a code of laws, •hich, whether wise or unwise, were at least consistent. He thought, with the Honourable Member for Armagh, that the gum than for the consideration of the Reuse was—whether we should proceed in the work of emancipation and improveand benefit Ire land, or whether we should stand still and suffer Ireland to remain as she has so long been, and as site is now. He (Lord 31.) could not say that it would have been unfidr or unjust, if, after the reign of James 11. there had been a spirit of intoleranceon the part of the Pro testant Parliament, but he would say that it would be the extreme of intolerance to continue the same laws when the cause of them had been horg since swept away. By allowing those laws to remain the British Parliament would identify itself in feeling with those who had enacted them. In his opinion, and he had always and would always maintain it, nothing was so likely to preserve the peace and the prosperity of the Protestant Church in that country as the removal of those restrictions for which the Catholics so ar dently prayed. Mr. NORTH said, he could not hope to add any thing to the persuasive, and he was convinced the effective, eloquence of those who had preceded him on his side of the question ; but because he was satisfied of the connexion of the subject now before the House with the essential interests of die country, he could not be satisfied to give a silent vote. He, doubtless, with many others, had at. tended to the speech of the Honourable Member for Armagh (Mr. Brownlow), and had rejoiced in the victory obtained by truth over error, while he admired the candour and manliness of that Honourable Gentlemen's observations, and the arguments in which he (Mr. North) perfect acquiesced. To him it was matter of considerable surprise that the eloquence that could satisfy the mind of one Honourable Member, so far as to prove to him the necessity of granting the measure, had matte another Honourable Member the more convinced of the necessity of opposing it. The Hon. Member for Derry (Mr. Dawson) had stated, that he was utterly unable to reconcile the change of tone on the part of Mr. O'Connell and the other leaders of the Catholic party—the change of tone in this country from the tone assumed by thorn in their own. But he (Mr. North) would ask that Ho nourable Member if he could really conceive no way of account in for this change? Was it not the most natural, was it not the most obvious, effect of the different courses that had beets pur this dawning increased more and more, unto perfect. day. lie could Rot help auguring fairly of the cause of the Catl.olics, from the arguments that had been adduced by those who had 1114 night op. posed the measure, who, when the question was brought forward depending on its own merits, had applied their arguments not to the general question, but to collateral points—points that were not now befcre the House. 'rms course he would not follow, but would confine himself to the true question at issue. To the argu ments used in opposition to the Bill by an Honourable Alember (Mr. Banker) who spoke on the floor, he would reply as well as he was able. That Honourable Member bed argued, and his argument," if correct, would have been a very eancleance one—that the grievances complained of by the Catholics were imaginary and unfounded. Now, he wished every Member in the House would lay his hand upon his heart, and ask himself whether or not the Catholics had real grievances to complain of. Ilow did the laws against him affect the professional man ? He would first take the country gentleman, who possessed pro- perty in the land, who distinguished himself on grand juries, and acquired by his condurt the esteem and leee of the surrounding gentry, what power could he have ?—What privilege could he en joy ?—ln what respect was his situation better than that of a forty shilling freeholder ? Ile would take the lawyer, who was urged to employ his talents and spend the better years of his life in acquit ing a profession by painful and continued study. and who had suc ceeded in gaining the public confidence, the public esteem, and the advantages whits confidence and esteem bring with them, but who, when his success encouraged him in aspiring to the behest honours of his profession, found himself held bark until his Pmtestaat bro ther had overtaken him, and had passed on and taken Ilia place above him. Was not this a grievance most vexatious and most galling ? Was it not a grievance which no man who had the spirit of a man could bear without complaining ?—and was it not a griev ance that would always create discontent and disaffection ? Was it not a deep and a sad grievance that a man might have those ad vantages which were sordid bid mean, while the honours attendant on his proteasion could never be his,—that he might fill the offices of the money-changers in the Temple, but to those higher stations with which rank and honour was connected, he could never hope to obtain ? It had been said that our Constitution was an exclusive Constitution : he (Mr. North) did not so conceive it; he believed it was the in tention of those who framed it, that all classes should enjoy as much liberty as was consistent with national peace : and as to the assertion that , cur Constitution was exclusive, he had nowhere found it—he had nowhere read It. It was also said, that " Xon " will be giving the Catholics political power."' New political Omer would appear, by this argum eat, to mean something exceedingly I alarming. But what in reality was it ? it was devised by law, and by law it was limited. It was acquired by the competition of honourable men, by honourable exertions, and by the cultivation of intellect and the superiority of mind. Such was political power; and what dangerous effects were to be apprehended. if such powers I were given to the Roman Catholics? But, he would ask, have the Catholics no power ? What, have we not given them a power of caching sympathy and reverence in the minds of millions of our cnintrymen ? Have they not a power of altering at will the tran quillity of the public mind ? Have they not a power of embarrass ing—for he might say of embarrassing—even the Government ? And yet it was said that there would be a danger in increasing that power, because it would place two or three of their body as Mem- Nrs in the House of C o mmons. Yet, after all, though they as: In their own country giants, they would be here only pi g mies. No—the true question was, whether by giving them this (alit % additional , power, ..you will make them your owe, or p,'rn'lt them to continue in hostility against you ? Whe ther you will br.'ng them into an intimate alliance with the State, or permit them still mbe a formidable enemy ? it was said, that though seven tentariee had dared since Popish domination was unlimited in this country. and though so many improvement's in every art, and in every sci.mce, had taken place since that period, the minds of the Catholics were on this subject unchanged. If he 12 could for a moment believe this, he could only attribute it to a : he an wou ce ld w e c zs d ten b d e. hatl v a h ev at er ! this l in ef i t rra on cie rec a o 7 rd d a th gr an ea s t u er ch nn a rr :t e r k iu . h v become so enlightened had so materially altered, and when man Lati doctrine remain stedft At and unchan i ;"cl, when almost every thing —this doctrine, that an individual held the rir;fa of unlimited sway over the minds and bodies of millions of men as high.- endowed re" he ! Of such a doctrine he knew and believed nothing, but he knew one thing that would answer it—and the only thing was human nature; he knew that it was human nature to be patenl for services performed ; that it was human nature to give affation for kindnesses ; and that it was human nature to give hatred for oppression. Do we believe then that the doctrine which declared that no rain' is to be held with heretics remains unchanged ? Do we imagine that any such settlement Is held by the Catholics ? What ! by the Catholics who ranked among them a Fenelon and a Pascal, and so many other high and eminent ornaments of human kind ? What ! could such be believed to be the religion of our own virtuous ancestors? No, every thing proved that such a ern. timent was not entertained by the Catholics, and that in Ireland no such opinion of the Catholics existed ; because in that country the Catholic and the Protestant entered into all relations, and con- tracted alliances by the ties of friendship and by the ties of mar riage. He did not intend to delay the House long upon this sub ject, but he would ask any Honourable Alembic, whether he did not feel convinced that the question had been recently gaining ground—if, indeed, the real question were not now, whether emancipation ought or ought not to be conceded to tb; Catholics, but that it was bow Inng it could be kept from them, and at what period it would become necessary to grant it--until what time of difficulty and danger it could be delayed—and to what new embarrassments it must owe its final success ? The people of Ireland were requiring and had acquired, property ; to this pro perty had been added education ; and was it now meant to wait until to property and to education they added power, which might enable them to bleak down the barrier that bad been raised between them and their rights ? Was it meant to wait until some time of danger and of difficulty should at last alarm their opponents--• time when concession would bite every quality of beneficence—a time when concession would be given without grace and received without thankfulness ? It would be vain to de deny that a certain degree of inconvenience weuld attend the grant ing of the measure, but even if there were danger it was the mis fortune of the case that there were six millions of Catholics : even if there were danger it would be a weak policy that would look to danger that was remote, and neglect that which was near at hand--that would point the telescope to distant danger, and over- look that which was beneath the eye. But the Catholics were endowed with much power, and he agreed fully in the opinion of the Honoentble Member for Armagh, that we had either gone too far, or we had not gone far enough ; that we must either re-enact the penal code with all its terrors, or we must do away altogether with those disqualifications which still remained. He hoped and trusted that the Legislature would at length seethe necessity for einharking in that line of policy which had been so earnestly re. commended by some of thettest men that had ever lived ; that they would act on the principle that must restore peace to Ireland, and give so much happiness to so great a portion of our fellow.subjeess, while securing the prosperity of the empire at large. Colonel FORD agreed fully in the sentiments expressed by the Hon. Member for Armagh (Mr. Brownlow). After a few words front a dl ember under the gallery, whose name we could not learn, _ _ _ Mr. JAMES DALY expressed his conviction that the extensicn of a system of liberal policy towards Ireland would have the effect of putting in end to party feeling, and establishing quiet and tran quillity in the country. The Catholics had increased in numbers and preperty ; is it extraordinary then that they should ask for an equality of rights, and for a repeal of those penal statutes under whose severity they had so long smarted? Arguments had been urged against this measure, founded on objections to the two Bills respecting the elective franchise, and a provision for the clergy ; but the Bill then before the House should stand on its own merits, and without pledging birmelf to any specific course in roference to other Bills, he should now give his vote for this. Another objection had been founded on Mr. O'Connell's beir.g the Rudder of the laity, and Dr. Doyle guiding the clergy; but so far front this leadership standing In the nature of an pbjection, he conceived that it proved a strong rea son for the adoption of the present measure. Mr. O'Connell's prin cipal importance was derived from the existence of the Penal Laws; repeal these and he loses his influence. It was said that if the Roman Catholics obtained all that they at present aouglit, they would immediately enlarge their demands. It was lreuriotts reason for refusing present justice, tr:catuic at some futute period there might be a possibility of inconvenience. Was this an argu ment to be used for the exclusion from civil rights of men who had proved themselves g od and loyal subjects ? Was it to be sup.. posai, that as the privileges of this body were auganenteet, th eir of would decrease ; and that the stronger their motives or be ing attached to the institutions of the country, the less disposed they would be to support them ? The present settled and tranquil aspect of Ireland was not the calm of apathy, but the stillness of intense interest. From the peer to the peasant, the whole Catholic population of Ireland had agreed in one common principle—that of laying aside all differences, and uniting heart and hand in seeking to acquire their rights. In obedience to the voice of Paths ment, the Catholic Association had submitted; but if the cx. pectations of the Roman Catholics be row disappointed, let it not be imagined that the country will remain without such a body. It may not be called the Catholic Anoristion, but the Catholics, and many Protestants too, will associate; and though some of the Catholics might have been heretofore lukewarm, -draw. pointment will unite them heart and hand to take by force what ought in justice to have been conceded to them. In speaking of force he did not mean that they would by force of arms compel the people of England to submit, but he meant that they would keep the Protestants of Ireland in such • state of discomfort and insecu rity as would make a residence in Ireland extremely painfaL :He had a considerable stake in Ireland, therefore felt much interest in the result; and his a sled conviction was, that property In Ireland would shortly be of not more than one-half its present value, if the cup of hope now held out to the Cotholics were to be suddenly dashed f rom their lips. The Hon. Member for Ar ma gh could net be permitted to remain in their present state. nor mei the country be settled without concessions to them. ft was thy duty of the litlisimure to take edvwetsge of existiog circumstances. for the puroose of effectieg He would for thes e reasazat give the present Bill his honest and sincere support. a complete union en:angst sit el:Lerma. (IOI.BURN, if he could, wi:h the flan. and Lnernet Gentleman behind him, believe that seceding to the turastis e'en ' before the /louse would restore peace and tramp/Why to Ireland. and promote its !sappiness and preset: thy. he would have no hesi tation in adopting the honest and mardy course of the 1 , 0 12 •11ent. M her for Armagh (e. Brownlow), and freely abeadoct his raleit opinions, if he thonght he she'd , ' thereby promote the peace and . traoquillity of the country ; but, under the influence of con:rmy feelings, be felt bound to oppose the Bill. ft was au a:gamete which could have no weight with him to say that great Lumbers urged these demands. and were prepucd to enforce them. The 124 feeling which ought to infinities Parliament on such ut °cal. • most, was any thing like apprehenaion. lie now opposed Litt , hid, on the same grounds which he did lent year. and he treated that in such opposition he would he supported by et maricity of that House. He opposed the measure of emancialnion. Is mcousi'tent with the principles of our Coostitution. inseparably tinned as that Constitution was with our Church establiehment. lie opposed it on the ground ton that it was decidedly . contrary to the principles of that Constitution, to admit to a participation of political power those whose religions tenets were hostile to the Church of litre- Land. The lion. Member for Corfe Castle I Mr. Banks) had truly stated, that thus to admit the Roman Catholics t I plat? would &de parture from the original principles of the British Conetiteuon. fie was averse from encountering certain danger, and trusting 12 such securities es might be hereafter devised as the temm offices:d ing against them. lie admdted that the exeiusion of Romeo Catholics from certain ulnas was there felt as a great grievance ; but he was against a remedy for that evil, attended, s; that remedy use, with so much uncertainty and danger. He was told not to bike into account the Bills respecting the elective franchise and the pro vision for the clergr, hut he could run me how the cot:sit:citation of these could, with propriety, be omitted. Those who vote for the present Bill do so with the ondantanding that the other EtLs are also to be passed. h was manor:Med awl the Bill now before the Honse would be a positive benefit. unapendcd with ally &toga: but oo the face of th e Bill i.e contended the danger was most dis tinctly admitted. If there were r. 9 danger. why doe. tier Bill provide securnies ? If there be nothing to apprehend, why are these precautLata resorted to ? lie would be for aootiouing the safeguards alremiy provided by the COPS:I. lotion, and not ereeting a necessity for new securfttes. t• was particularly important to look to the 'securities provided by the Bill now before the House. These securities were of three kinds : the first was tont:tined in the preamble to the Act; the next consisted in the oaths required to be taken by the ROa:aa Catholics; and the last was the appointment of Com:..iintioncra to regulate the nomination of ecclesiastics, and contribute to remove tl:o apprehension of t h e inlet{ renew of a foreign pow e r in the c ivil or religious affairs of these isartgdoms. These were the preffered securities, and be wax prepared to say thet in his opinion they were all inefficient. • [Here the interruption, from 3l '.leers leaving the lions; became so great that the Right Honourable Getitkman found it impraciarble to proceed.] Mr. PREZ, said, as it was understood that the debate was to Le adjourned, he did not see tog benefit that could arise from proceed • ins with the farther di eussiou of the question in the present Ewe of the House. He should therefore recommebd the adjournment of the debate to whatever day might be deemed most convenient, n:•ti. the understanding that his Right Honourable Friend the Seeretarr for Ireland should be considered in possession of the limas, aed hare an opportunity of continuing his argument upon that day. After a hew remarks from liuoroirsm, tiOULBIAIN, and Mr. Secretary PE► 1:, as to the flay of adjournment, it was tinily agreed that the debate on the Bill should stand adjeattned to Tt:ur:... day next. 'flue other orders of the day were then disposed, andlliltuse ed. journal at ONE O'CLOCIL. P:tICES OF BILITIsII STOCKS YESTERD.I Y. Rank stock 11324 India Stock 2110 a 3 per Cent. Red. fill i I India Cot:del:I 83 nut 3 prr Pent. Cana. 92,1 ; i Long Ann. 23 3-16 Ditto Acct. 321 Ex.8i115,14.1.1.000/. 60 63 pm !II per Cent. 993 3 Ditto, 6901.60 63 pni 31 per Cent. Red. 994 Ditto, Small 60 iii pm New 4 per Cent. 1064 3 Lottery Tickets, 191. 11,. PRICER OF PIM/411:N S'POCIiS YESTERDAY. 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Company lOU 5 id Canada ship Building Comp. 100 A 4 A General Stearn Navigation lOO 5 44 Gold Coaat Anweiation lOO :, Par Great Westminster Dairy 23 4 1 dis Honduras Company lOO 6 14 21424 2 14 Irish 31antifactory Company lOO 1 A Imperial Plate Glass lOO 2 2i) 32! 2 ternolun prick Company 2O I par 4 dts Mexican Company lOO 10 3 2 Metropolitan Alderney Dairy 2 4 1404 14 $...1 1 Metropolitan F.sh Company 24 1 at 4 lint 4ex Metmpolitan Marine Bath OO I 4 Pearl Fishery (Yellow) 26 2 16 Provincial Bank of Ireland lOO 3 34 4 Patent Steam Canal Company 10 2 1 I.r Pacific Pearl Fishery 5O A 1# 2 Penivian lllO 4 4 4 Pearl and Coral Fishery 441 4 AA ; Rio de la PlataAiric. Compri, 100 5 31 r. 2. 3 • Royal Stannary A l% um DIZURY-LANE THERI'RE. Thir Evening, WEDVIMAY, April 10. %Al be perfot, ed DE O R FRI:ISM rz. . . Ottoenr, the Prime. Ilr. fiercer : Reinhard. Hood ilexPer , 114 ford: Hermit. Mr. G. Snl:th ; Adolph, Hr. T. Cwole: than: :Ilan. Rleurnian to the Head Ranger. Mi. Titre 6:lta,:, Dare . of title Man. Mt. Howell: 'lam fel. Mr. 0. Satan: Witco( t t e , Mr. thaw LAN. Linda. Miss Row. Hue Fe, .}. After 'which. AWN HASSAN 7 i minute,.. The Holt. Gentleman was understood to say, that he was 'SU the horrors of a religious war. nut venire me tAxnumgre me MG aannl Van atnill, eau" ug um 1a.....in wurbirts mat 115000eTs parr_ suddenly dashed from that lips. The lion. merebet toe Armee. (Mr. Brownlow) had said, that in promoting the peace of the roue, - _ . - -- - epposed to the measure of emancipation , because he considered it Doctor was a different mall altogether . There he was the friend sued towards those persons when they were in Ireland, and whet . . COPE NT-G Ali ll It' N TI l r'..l ;t. . <' tngetoas in principle, but if it should be accompanied by the of England—the admirer of the British Constitution and the laws, they were ex a mined a t the Bar of that House—addressing try, the Roman Catholic priests had done as little as they could, Tata E%ltLallf ,VI DNI , Flifll. - . At ,A fn. will to rer'.:.ere s,e .: measures to which the Hon. Member for Armagh (Mr. Bronnlow) and WaS ready to subscribe to every t hi ng , sav i ng t h e power them, es a t one time," s a ys Mr. Burke, in the language of conci- though it was in their power to do much ; but he would say. that "..v.eedy. ~.red They had sp i r a k d en ct i l t ,, l n l g relan tb d ei v i r . h w e l n ie in al i e ta m ted om b e y nt in t sa he lt y Onlltillta IN illitS alluded, far from considering it less objectionable, he should se- of the Pope in religious matters. His answers were so eloquent, listed _frien . d . s , and at another in the . language of insulted an d ini,. in the part of the country from which he came, the lionian C atholic The Priveipal Cbarae•en. P. t.t..evre. I '. ~..re. C. tien,tie. si-.1 ...mat it intini•ely more so. ( Hear, hear.) The proposal to de.. so copious, and so learned upon these matters, that they had pro. gated foes. e w l i e t r fi gy na b er ad, ess, in a t nd imeo de. of er si v ifil e4 cu ly lty pts an d sad danger, p ey b r i t i e c d than thei k r g ir t !tie thus nee , , Cowes: : litenienws Bart:ey. Lary. Lon .r.l - .. p. .. prive forty shilling freeholders of the elective franchise, was hatah ducat coosiderahle effect; and lie (Mr. Dawson) was sorry to say and injustice, and they 4,T..• yr tart.. ~nd unnealess.l7 and, in his opinion, would be weer t y ra n n ic a l, a much greeter di nt t h an t h ey deeme d upon t h e mind of h is were called before a Committee, a. examined at the Bar of the beneficial in:reference. Thetis few observations he thought it et. titentrepts, 4141) '11"! PR5•.:11 , 4 Of InAN'ILI a : lie now came l t o that part of the subject c ^ Lnec'ed with t he P a '' II"' Friend, t he 31 e mber for Armagh- But when the Committee House, in order to discuss the subject of what would be of ad- cessary to make. .` trent of thei• clergy; upon which he would remark. that all the I asked D r . Doyle w h et h er h e h a d rea d t h e l etters a i gur d J. K. L. vantage to their common country, and they had changed their sir N. COI.THIAST wished not to give a Indent vote on thin because their feelin , s and their sentimer ts odium of collectieg tithes would lie upon the Protestant clergy, Ihe answered, " Yes."—" Did he agree with the prtnetples con. lan t, . . had changed. question. He was of opinion that it was Unpp‘t to tsehtle so large whilst the Catholic • ts would be paid in the most e m neMent 1 talned in those lege*. ?"—" 11 ' dared to la t he be did.' ' Did he They had derived a hop e of suceelia to thief cause from their per.. a portion of the population of Ireland, s ;moot adequete reason. Fort . Utile , leittliLte. fur he I agree with the principle of d3:•lg away with the ells. freeholds ?" severing in this line of conduct. A-d what did this change of tone and without the exietence of real danger •us Me was he from be. • Tr.., k , e lf , A . u tiil m , ~ 1 4 ' ; , ..1 C. .: 1 :1 1::::4:1 : A 4T ° . : ,:i i1 4 :" F 7: Ai wilt7i .' L li .. 1; 11 : 0 . r fo r .. a R..b...Ree - t. Head. IV. teTarinvir... manner. Hon. Member then las we understood him , rook a revisien of Here the Doctor was getting upon d e li cate groun d . f or m the an d manner prove y Wh at b ut a foretaste of the tranquillity and liesing that the measure of el • • . would produce apply, I . w:tit nearly inaudible during his whole speech)matron Ting Pl.n:flallt." ori*.!t!... the expense that would attach to the country by the allowances that P am P hle " he ha d exclaimed most lnutllY against this disfranchise. calmness that m u st b e p ro d uce d by th e me asure th ey ant i c ip ate d y hi s o pi n i on was that it •rould have the /Test of dimiuirbing the Pi lebara, Yr. tilltil•nat loetlt. 'lb. newton: Caralla Ntrelitatd this under •terr to be '.1.400 vizi and 3,110 Boman Catholic prieets, to whom it was not like a skilful Divine, he appealed to the Committee, evaded Pe cause, what -.1" - - d this would follow the erection giving an answer, and (withoae meaning to offend, said the Hon. I might we not expect if the measure west ultimately earritil, and Pismo... to re incomes, an upou P I 1111 tie= • Lee To ecuenute ~, • and leasei ingi:ii ower. With regard to katume Uteri*. 0 i•S• ba re • Y . WI. liSuo,fry. the oplOiens at pre :en entertained' by Protroiantii on this eabj,ct, be believed that st.etairec, t i nts c a r t e d . The Boman ea :Mahn TUE 11:4117.aalln tPIRLorr. '. lyres. Me. A IkaseStat Osent , p, lfes. Kanter, • •'- . • . . 1 - . . .. --...----....7--„,... ' usw.... 4.4100 -0.0.3..--- r .• 1 "" . - . . - ' . ~., e I