The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-08-01 00:00:00

rte might be save& and employed towards car- rytag on the war; hut the r-verse of that had afterwards been proved. The Nine of Prussia had. at to a time, an efrettiee force, WLiCh was +arra,' and v.gorously employed, in attempting to relieve Daman:, over which. indeed. sea could have no emorout ; bat. whatever were the circumstances at tending these operations. it might surely he a mat ter of consideration, that we were twice the moans of saving Irons surrender the gallant garlism of Co'herz. and of maintaining and relieving it from starvation. WHITBREAD thought it would he rnamiial to know whether or not Lord Hut - clog:son was a party to that further Suisitly, at the time it was granted ? as it had been stated noon a former debate by the Right Hon G-ntlem'n oppo.it-, that the present sitaation of affiira upon the Continent had come upon them unespeßedly. and wit they could not foresee such a rapid ter urination to hostiliti-s. One might ask, whether Ministers had not received some indication m prognostic from Lord Hutchinson, as to the event of a great battle taking pia:l, and likely to terminate unfavourably to the Allies. when they ventured to allege that they were deceived. contrary to all expeetations ? D d they in point of fat re ceive such information as could justify them in wit ihulding their Defence Bills so long ? Mc. CANNING saisl, he had not the least ob jeaion to answer such questions, if they were put to AS matters of CIII it.ity. It was impouible that Lord li•itchinson could anticipate the events that aCtually task place upon the Continent. The com- Thunicatinns from his Lordship were such as he (Mr. C.) apprehended he had not made for the first time. Seine rif the earliest of them did seem to argue a confirmed and settled opinion that prevailed upon Ow Continent, that this country was to come f,: ward with military aid to the allied powers. Such were the impressions conceived amongst the aliies, when the present Administration came into oilice. They found such expeClarions entertained abroad, hut not a single preparation at home had been made by the former Government ; so that Br i rain was utterly unable to afford timely assist ance. On the contrary, they found all the trans. ports were dismissed from the. public service, for the very purpose of preventing Stay Government from fulfilling those expatiations. He could also state tco tha the time was aatally arrived, when, unless Prussia was aided both by military and pe cuniary means from this country, that Power could no longer ptrutere in the contest. These were discouraging contingencies. mods' which the pre sent Administration had to struggle. and this was an answer to the Hon. Gentleman's question, upon a subjeCt which he would not have thought of tnuchi .g unon in Cie ahsence of a Noble Lord (Howie;) who was materially conflated with these transations. - _ _ _ Mr. WHITBREAD replied, that he was far . - from thinking he had brought the conduit of the late Administration into any &iv,. of Wizard by the observations which had fallen from him ; but ',bother it was so or not, it was certainly of great importance to the country, that the whole of the cirenmstances sboulj he known. He now felt him. Rif rather called upon to defend those whom the i g ht Hon. Gentleman had unjustly attacked, than to combat sny fair argument he had used upon the enikket at Lisle. While that Right Hon. Gentle man acknowledged the accounts from Lord Hut. ehinion were discouraging, be supposed, that if ea. fain circumstances had taken place in this country, some hopes might have been entertained of a snore favourable issue. Upon this he ( 1 4r. Whitbread) should observe, that the hopes alluded to were wither more nor less than this, that Prussia, attack ed it, France upon her own frontiers, could still re tire, and avoid a little longer a general engagement ; or in other words, put off the fatal day. On their sanguine espeflittions of 'bat event. and exag gerating to themselves every little and trivial ad vantage that was gained upon the part cf Russia. with France at a dt.tance from supply, they founded their hopes upon a general a&ion. He confessed, that if he had seen a letter from Lord Hutchinson, founding such expeOations upon a general engage ment, he would have thought that there was an end of tl.e whole campaign. And yet the Right Hen. Gentleman alleges, that under such circumstances a snilitaty force ought to have been sent from Great ; but be begged Lim at the same time to re. (Oi t a our predicament, when the war at first broke cut, ier.d to say whether there would have been je.t.tice or propriety in our adopting such a line of cet.dua, Prussia being then attuAlly at war with England upon the subject of Hanover.— This happened in the month of November; TION eh-t possibility was there, be would ask,durirg the wl.t)le ef the winter, of cur sending a British for c e to cri.nperate with the powers upon the Con• 'Lunt? if Prussia was i.t.t at that time able to maintain herself, to number of men that we could have acitt tint would have terminated the war in her favour. The slight Hon Gentleman saw no pre parattatt upttn the part of the late Goverment, hut what have the gfesent Miniaty themes:wee done?— What have they accomplished during the several months diet have expired since they came into office 3n the beginning of April ? They aired to feel it necessary to give a sub slify to the King of FlllllBk, and to assist him and Sweden with a military force, yet they have not made one single movement for transports till the middle of June. and not then in the moment of necessity, but for other unknown and secret purposes. What have they done, within the last fortnight, with the number of men they have enslsiuked, amounting to nearly 20d300 ? they cooll do this in July, why not do it in April? It had !teen said that the late Administra• thin preclOst d the possibility of embarking a single man, by Diving paid off he transports, hut was net this a seeing of about 40,0001 per month, dur ing the interval when thy) , were thought to be sit.- necessary Lord CASTLEBEAGI I said, he ermld nct allow such observstiebs to pass without cr , r4ine-.t. Al though Prussia WAS utiminally at war v itli this - rooter of notoriety, that 'king place betwixt her and parlud ; and if the late Go. ntry had ailed with political to have been prepared to have tho‘e they were begot:Laing s .. struck A&Ainst Aussie, they wan ailually leading themselves to their own disgrace. The Hon. Gentleman had said, if the present Government felt the necessity of affording aid, why did they not do it stoner! but he did not seem to advert to this, that when they came into office. they found no me ins afforded them of m!!c ing any exertion at all. The transports were all dismissed, so that there was not sufficient time af ' forded to snake the preliminary preparations for the erab it !cation of cavalry—the most liezessary force that could possibly have been sent. When Mr sisters came into Ake, iliere was only one tram port, and that seemed to have ben preserved as a curiosity. The first comoilinica:iiri I-oni toe Con tinent was an exptessia i rt dt•appnintment that cavalry had not been sent such was the cnns.•gnrnce cf the plan .1-Ivrea by the late Ad as to ravirg the public Irons ex pense ; and yet it a,-peared, that when an order had been given to the Transport Board to pay off all transports, Al it Board had made a represen tition to the T. eastit y. that if they were really paid off. it would afterwards prove very men-. sive to the public, they be:ng more conversant in these matte-s than those who had issued the order Instead of costing 40,0001. per month, as was al leged, they would not have cost 4,0001. per month. At the time they came into office, there were about 60,000 tons of transports, as woo mea were then about to be sent upon Foreign service. The pre. sent Ministers could not have made any exertion sooner than they had done, on account of the state in which affair were left by their predecessors. It was well known that a wise Government ought to have matters so arranged beforehand, as to have the power of executing military embarkations almost as soon as conceived, so as to prevent the enemy from getting notice of our preparations. The failure of our assistance ►o the Continent had therefore been greatly owing to that false system of economy, which had been peasaised by his predeces sors ; whereas, if there had been 50,000 men sent to the Continent. it would have been impossible that France could have done what she has done. Mr. WINDHAM observed upon the impro. priety of the present Ministers bringing for ward such unfounded charges against their predecessors. at this period of the Session ; and alio obj.fted fo their mode of doing so, because. if they had any real subject of complaint. they ought rather to make it the subject of a formal accusition. He ridiculed the idea of our being in a sitaation to pay all the powers of Europe, although there might be some occasions upon which it mir;ht really be proper to lend our assistance to them. He denied that the late Government had given the Allies on the Continent any season to *epee such assistance as that alluded to. either military or pecuniary. He disapproved of the policy of making a 'hew of pieparations, as it only tended to awaken the suspi cions of our enemy. All that the late Ministers were required to do, was that which they thought best ; but they did net foresee they were to hare sue.. testers so soon, who should be of a contrary opinion, and think so wrong. The Right Hon. Gentleman nest adverted to the appointment of Sir Home Popham to a command in the last Expedition, which he could not help ob serving to he rather premature, after the Court Martial which had been so recently held upon Oat o:ficer, when he was declared. by the sentence of that Court, to have been guilty of a great breath of duty; yet he was now appointed, out of his turn, to a command in this grand Expedition. When, there fore, he saw an Of f icer, fresh from the disapproba tion of a Court Martial. app6inted to a high com mand, he most consider it not only ruinous to tile service. bat a mockery upon all naval discipline ; and now, after all this, the Noble Lord had tile modest confidence to come forward, and tell the House, that, forsooth, if His Majesty's late Ministers had followed up the measures of his fixing( Ministers, there would have been no de ficiency such as was now complained of; but he must tell : those Honourable Gentlemen. they left them no option ; and he would tell those Gen tlemen, that His Majesty's ' late Ministers left the army 10,000 men stronger than they found it, and as to the navy, that was not in a more deficient state than the army, for it had been increased nearly about the same number. With what reason or justice then could the Noble Lord so tauntingly a •case him of the magnificence of his plans? His own magnificence consisted in distinguishing, but the Noble Lord's magnificence was in confound:llg. With respell to the transports adverted to hy the Noble Lord. the chief °Nee was to dismiss those ships which were calculated for short voyages. be cause they could betaken up again, whenever occasion • required, and at a short notice; but it was necessary to keep in tow a number of copper-bottomed vessels, which were difficult to be procured in' a hurry, or upon any great emergency. Of these latter descrip. tion cf ships, they left the Noble 1.-tied a greater number than they found ; and after all the Noble Lord's taunting and jeering upon this point, let him only bring a comparative statement of the number of transports engaged during the former and late Administration, and then the House will be able to judge whet are the reel fees of the case. In an swer to the grand Sourish of the Noble Lord, that ell the tranispom had been dismissed under the late Administration. and all that, it might do very well for passing into the country in the course of the summer, without any hazard of a contradinion ; but he must say, the Noble Lord and Close with whom he affect. never would come to an investiga tion of the subjcift. although se frequently invited to it. Lord CASTLRREAGH, in explanation, said, from all the measures and or :!rs of the late Go• vernment, from their total inthivity and entire abandonment of the Continent, he did think they had determined not to make any exertions whatever to subsidise foreign powers. His Lordship, in observing florin the subject of transports, adverted to the circumstances of the gth Dragoons, who were sent to Buenos Ayes, returning, and request ing to have copper-Sottomed vessels, those in which they were •sent being only fit for three swaths voyages, and not at all calculated for 'that sulfite. In the Administration of Mr. Pitt, theirand Poker was always to have the immediate means of embark ing 10,000 men, for foreign service, or for taking advantage of any pre-existeng obits". Giving. there fore. the Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Whildhaos). medic for all Lis copper-44moms! umasporth Lbws was 01117 a sufficient nnmber keit for the hoop. service. and such as ceold not be dispatched upenany immediate mileary expedainn. Mr. WINDIIAM, in aeswer, could not hut ob serve the candour of the Noble Lotd, when he said they had ne immediate puronie so answer in sending troaps to the Continent; they certainly had no im mediate views on that subjea. and therefore the copper-bottomed transports were employed - in carry i-g provisions to the fleet off Brest. Lo r a CASTLEREAGH again rose. and ob oe ved, that the experience of the Right Honour able bad been in paying off transports. and I.k experience veer in taking them up ; and ever since his return to office he had been endeavouring. hut was not able to colle9 a sufficient number for the public service. The Continental game had been thought a bad one by the late Government, a. appeared from their own .hewing, and therefore they washed their hands nut of it entirely. Mr. W INDHAM slid, if the Noble Lord took tip transports with the same facility he took up f4N, which had no existence, he congratulated him on the acquisition. He said they had the copper bottomed transports, and because they had them, they employed them. Mr. ROSE shoula not have risen. hut to take no tice of an observation of the' Right Hon. Gentle. man (Mr. Windham), who had said, that the re cent appointment of a certain naval officer was a mockery on all navel dicipline. He begged leave to set that Rig:it Hon. Gentleman right upon this tulrjea. and to tell him, that an Admiral, com manding a fleet, had always a right to selea his own Captain; and although the gallant Officer al luded to bad been reprimanded by the sentence of a Court Martiek there was no blame or imputation whatever, to area either his courage or his skill, and the only charge against him was too great zeal in the service of his country. That brave officer was new engaged upon a service which would call forth those qualities, as a brave and skilful officer, for which he was so eminently distinguished. He reminded the House of the appointment of Sir Ro ger Curtis, who was 'elated by Lord Howe to Le his Captain; and it was allowed on all hands. by Officers ci the lien experience and knowledge, that such a praaice must always be allowed. Admiral Gambier, theretore, trri every •right to selea Sir Home Popham `sr his Captain if he pleased. While on his legs, he begged leave to make one further oNservation, respeaing the engagement of trans ports. If, as had been said by the Right Hon. Gentleman. there was a raving of 40,0001. in the hire of transports, and calculating upon an average that the hire of etch transport per ton was 11. and allowing every man a ton, which was the usual compuutioa, there must necessarily have been a re duaion of 40,000 tons ; how then, he asked, did the observations of the Right Hon. Genleman stand good in this respea ? General Loprus shortly adverted to the Ex pedition under General Creufurd,aad the want of proper transports on that occasion. - • Mr. WINDHAM again shortly explained. General PHIPPS adverted to the appoint ment of Sir Roger Curtis, by Lord Howe, and asked, whether a man should be punished beyond the law ? (Alluding to Sir Home Popham.) Mr. WINDHAM again rose, and declared he did not mean to deny the necessity of the seta/lion of an officer by the Commander of an eaeeditien. But he considered the appointment of the Officer alluded to as not altogether consonant to the general feelings of the service. Mr. ROSE shortly explained. Lord HENRY PETIT considered the appoint• meat lately made up= *greet expedition. which had recently sailed, like the appointment of Sir R. Curtis by Lord Howe, as the subjeft of great dissatis faaion among the fleet (4 erg No 7 No I lie 1— ! amp 1) Its Lordship said, he bad been in formed it was so; and independent of the Court Martial, he thought that there had been some cir eunsstaaces upon the subjea of the expedition to Buenos Ayres, which had transpired in public, and would become the duty of that Home to inquire into, and therefore this appointment should not have taken place. His Lordship then entered Into a long justificntion of his financial system; and next ad verted to the various plans and expedients of the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) for the deliverance of Europe, liens the year 1793 with the various ex peditions and subsidies which had been prnjeaed for and against the Continent of Europe; all of which, his Lordship contended, were so tardy in the exe cotion, that the opportunity had passed, and many of thew were either destroyed, or returned without accomplishing the objeS they were destined for. In conclusion, his Lordship observed. that no Govern ment was justified in exposing the troops confided to their care to unnecessary dangers. Mr. CANNING observed, that the question was, whether the Committee would vote a sum of 189,0001. to the powers of the Continent ? and, in stating this, he bad puiposely abstained from en tering into any general matter, comparison, or controversy, but merely stated the circumstances under which that sum of money was to be granted ; but his difficulty now, since his coming into office, was to reconcile the expeflations of the Powers on the Continent, with the performance of those pro mises and expeaetions held out to them br His Majesty's late Ministers. It wet: now known by whom these Powers were abandoned—it era. ret the country, it was the then Ministers. The Powers of the Continent were no longer to look to Lord Grenville as a Is iend to Continental subsidy; he was converted by the then Chancel) sr of the Exche ever, (Lord Henry Petty) ; and he congratulated the Noble Lord on so noble a conversion. But it such were the opinions of the Cabinet, it was but fair to state to the Powers of the Conti nent, that such plans had been adopted. He was rejoiced to hear the declaration of the Noble Lord opposite, because he hoped that it would reach beyond the walls of that Haws to our late Allies on the Continent. That Noble Lord had stated, that the late Ministers bed made decla rations of a general nature of assisting our Allies, but that they had guarded against entering into po• sitive engagements, and that no circumstance of the wit had occurred to induce them to send to them efficient help. He rejoiced is this declaration, inas• much as it delivered hits and his colleagues in office from the prtittful necessity of concealing (w. they bad hitherto laboured to do) the *mbar . fattment and clartdty they f e lt. mai since the, entered into office. *rising from the eqld porising cont!na of the late Adminiitration ti. wards Prussia and Russia. From their aeltnr...v. fedgments it now appeared. that they had seilti ••• themselves vetth general, indeßilte, and empty p 7. cessions of friendship ; but that, with the except*,,,, of Cie advance of 80,0001. to Prussia, they hat taken no efli:ielkemp. even to th e d ay o f their ;.... ing out tit odia to aid the cause of our against tile common enemy. He trusted chil e Powers and the rest of the Cmtinent would tin,, !le table clemly to distinguish between the rigid e l , 0:-timed parsimony or the late AdmiMs.ratien, the true politic il principles which were meted no-, by emir successors, and felt by the British enspire .it Urge. The speech of the Noble Lord, and of the Rt. Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Windham) drear tro.n him this acknow:edgmeirt, that the late Istni,oy were the most dextrous executors of their own pa r . poses. in throwiug off the interests of ilia Comineat, as connedled with those of this 'corn! ry. fiat h . would put it to the Noble Lord an.l his late Cat. leagues. he would put it to the cool judgment the House, and of the Country, whether are tee:; more likely to secure economy by abandoniug Continent, and being left to carry on the v, • ? In this war we were engaged as Nur terms with Russia s no subsidy had been destrr.:. by her t she only wanted our alive -* .and she, along with Prussia, (the ',„tr,e poi „ struggling for hei very exist:sic •) frequ..ntly their wishful eyes, hot cast them iii vain. to ne shores of Britain, nor that assistance which, in vague and ind.dinitd terms, they had been gisti to aped. But if it should now be charg,d ~4 Russia, that she hid allaw_ioned. us. Resat e h , retort that she • had fought mitifiilly aid j, ; _;:, pendently of us, whilst she had look!! in ram for help from England; and that all oar Ix: promi t had vanished into air, tijl at last she we> 6.11gcl look to her own, safety. without being t.h,.gid to realer an account of her conduit to &If:A(4 . allies bad, It was tru,, left us allne, btu cella only ourselves to thank for it ; we had hnur.l :!:cm to us by no obligations which they had brute r through. Russia, to ete period of the aro , , had exhibited the resources of an estensiv • r , unaided by any others ; and had she nit j t.t a : of complain:, as she aEloally tad com?hon t Anibassador, that whilst France had villa:a et troops from her narthex s• and westrrn coays, the extremities of her empire, and from Italy, to traverse France and Germ ley. in order to carry n n the war in Poland. we had in no part of t'lat period either sent troops to her assist( ,ce, or soda made any diversiod on the pppoloo coasts of France, or on any part of Italy t He again declared, that much of the difficulty which he ani his,eo•leagaer, had had to encounter in their ceeduA towards rat Allies. and for the benefit of the empire, hssl Sera greatly owing to the pusillanimms, imitating. had inefficient measutes of their pre teeeesort in offite.._ TtieSOLICI f OR-GEN MIS A Ltot 5..!0 ILAND rose for the purpose of Jefendino the apoointni:nt of Sir Home Popham, as Capt t n of Itift.dlet is the present expedition, and to rerrairk . how stator cad ungenerous,it was in the Noble Lord (H. Petty) to introduce in his speech a dark insiouatirin against that officer, and to throw out this loose and in :cent. charge, at a time whey he had tie oprovisany to ae.. himself ; and a chase *Mei in ses wart kit believed to be totally groundless. Mr. WHI MIRE All said, he was sorry that any thing had been introduced in this niguesdiseuraaa on the suhjelt of Sir Home -Popham i• at the sates time he thought it was sufficient to repel the a tick of the Hoe. and Learned Gentleman .agaioni his Noble Friend, to observe, that' hat the N4ble Lord had alluded to V 74.: no se:ret ; it referred to the .his puce with Sit David Raird, as to • the prileonowy at the Cape. and he believed was, at this very time, the subjed of a suit in the Courts trelow. Toe Kilo Secretary of State had made a severe attack epee the late Adaainistratian. in 'clad in to their condo& towards Foreign Powers; but, if he thought fit Le make such charges, why n.it do so in a more fair and regular war. by bringing forward a vote of ces sure against them t The Hon. Gentleman hid made 'weeping charges, and bad even levelled is an Administrators, which had not lasted fall fourteen months, all the errors of former Ad ministrations for fourteen years past. He de vied that the late Adrisinicratioa had deserted. the Continent; but they bad learnt wisdom and caution from the errors of their predecessors. its charged it upon the Administration of Mr. Pitt aa4 his colleagues, that we were now reduced to such a painfal situation with respell to the potters no toe Continent, and were now left erilbout sa ally. It was not twenty-four mortise mimes, when Austria was unwillingly driven into a war, at a time whea she felt her Inability for the contest. and was thus brought to the verge of stein. and when Massie also was subsidised. it was not, therefore, his friends who had ruined the Continent, but Mr. Pitt and rtil r t e o am uob th r i a e a I ti a tn. fall s e he n Colleagues. With regard to Prussia— he wished not P ° fir s e t r the against Franey. and afterwards withdr ew tro.o ebnuibtalriekedamatin that the coalition, until the late period when she r - commer.ced that war. his oeinion of that F. , :.er had been one and the ,same I nor c.m1.1 h: !•• tify the enodua of England F re: Power', and particularly in Cie abandonsnen: • f tie of the unfortunate King of Sardinia. t. ..; • I was now without a angle Ally. and tire lace •• that she had some how or other so coodudeA self. that she was execrated even by the veto Par'' ' whom sbehad subsidised. He denied that the late - nistry had deCeived the Powers on the Continent, for they had come under no positive eagagenients, had they fluid out any exaggerated hopes. ...le prornisos made were merely conditional. as carcoo stances might arise to warrant the foliimen: them ; and, therefore the charge was not true. '3 fait, that the late Ministry bad swerved how premises they had made; no Russian army briar dee , ivied from the promise oi cavalry tot riving ; every encouragement held out had bean 'I conditional patine, and the inhilineut, of coow quence, depended upon the circumstances toit aright arise. The present Administrators was, r. opinion. incapable of treating with advat . r , tags with the powers on the continent. to that magnanimous 'power; Prussia. wh o t dight Honourable Galilean sta tes, might b 4" , , 111111 4. P • couutty. yat i: was a altatcotions were tAki reauce, at that same • serament of this c,,uni tiiacel o ty, t'•ey oL • 11 ti g . *l4 in i ; von a t IR ;A. 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