The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-04-14 00:00:00

' .tr . INIPERIAL PARLISIMENT. • •• q, ,T • • 110Ci.7. OF LOIDS—Mo%Dar. Areio.l3. Baron Tyne&le, (!rely the k.erl of„ Dalkeith), and Baron Gordan (the Marquis n 1 Huntley). were introduced by Lords Reay and Cawdor, took the oaths and tilvir seats. /shout a doairi of Bolls, both were brought up from the Commons. The attendant_ of the Lords was this day very great, and the spare below the Bar was r •markably crowded with stranvrs, from a previous know. ledge the important business which WAS to take place. CHANGE OF ADMiNISTEtATION. The order of the day for summouing their Lord ships being read, The Marquis of STAFFORD rose, and address ed the House in pursuance of the notice he had given. He began by repressing his regret that such an important topic should have fallen to hi; IA to bring under their considesation, instead of its bring brought forward by ore of their number mote able to dive the motion its due riled There were times, however, and this be conceived to be one, when it became the duty of any Noble Lind, however inca pable. to step forward to persevere in what he might concesve to be his duty His sentimerfts upon this occasion, were, he conceived, explanatory of the most y.e.netal sentiments of the country. He had had the honour, upon a former occasion, and in a formet Parliament, of living notice of a motion for th- purpese of effeCtiog a change in this then Administration. which nuAion had been prevented by a change taking place at that very time He was thee actuated by motives equally for the goal of his country, as upon the rresent occasion. Imme,l ately upon the demise of an illustrious Statesman, (Mr. Pitt), /mantes had been taken to form an Administrazion, composed of men of the greatest abilities; an Administration, of which the House and the country seeasel higt ly to apptoves . but not withstanding the general approval of their forma tion ansfcandue. they had been lately dismissed from His Majesis Council;; for no other reason than that :h. y had refused to sign a pledge, which, if th y had signed, they w uld have been liahle to inapeac:imeat I He lamented extremely, that His Majesty sh uld have b. ea advised to an act which W.D 5) unwarranted by the principle. of our glorious Constitution. He was far from attachim: any blame to our most gracirus Sovereign, as he was heard to addlOWll.4!ge •11.- principies t tat the king can Jo no v• mg He was not only hound to do so from inclination, but term gratitude; but surely it is consistent with the Coned:to:on ca thecriantry that some persons should be responsible f s r the advice riven As be wished, however. to ay 41 mention ing any Matters that might t:nd to excite religious atiari:iiy, he should co tent hiluen, upon the pre. sent occasion, w submitting a maims for • heir Lcrifiltps• eonwideraiion. Ihe Nobs , . Lord tiro eonclnde.t with en ving, o That this li..U•e • mill resolve, that fcerint 4 the neee•sity of a firm and sable Government in this imp. , ;ant crisis of public. affairs, it is impies.ed with deepest regret at the recent change which has sik.n place in His M ljesty's Councals, a rig et which is greatly increased fay the cause to wli;ch that change MA. been as:ribed ; it beiri tie opinion rat this House, that it is contrary to the first doves of the tropisms. ble Minister. of the Crown to restrain themselves by any pledg-, expressed or implied, so as to debar them cm giving to His Majesty any advice which in their judgement the course *circumstances miry vender neceso.ry foe the honour and security of his ,minions " This motion being read by the Lord Chancellor, d ABERDEEN rose, and axpiessed his senti ments in opposition to it. He should abstain, he said, trom euterirg any farther than was absolutely necessity, open a subject so intimately cenneeed with Ms Sovereign; for, although the greater part of the moti as appeared to be a general oath, and a sort of abstract preposition, yet the evident inten tion in bringing it forward upoe the present occa sion, was by way of justification of His Majesty's late Ministers. The Noble blarquis must be anaie that in such a question there must be two parties in volved ; that although it might be intended princi pally to apply to the responsibility of Ministers, yet it likewise tended to trench upon the prerogative of the Crown; and he aught therefore to be cautiou., lest is his anxiety to exculpate Ministers, there should be any censure thaws; towards that quarter, to which no censure could possibly attach. From the manner in which the minion was brought forward, it was impossible to consider it without referring to those ci:cumstances which were immediately con netted with it, and which, though not expressed, seemed to form the pretext for it. When llis Ma jesty's late Ministers consented to withdraw a mea sure, the importance et which they had so strongly impressed upon His Majesty and on Parliament, they not only made a declaration of their intention to support any such measures that might be after wards brought forward; but even intimated the probability of their proposing simila r m easures to is Majesty, in fulfilling their official capacity. To what situation dia this reduce His Majesty, whose opinions were immutable upon the Catholic subject ? It naturally occurred to him, that from the declaration which his Ministers then took upon themselves to make; they were dispose) upon some future occasion to propose some such measure to him again, when perhaps he might not be so able to resist it with the same effect as he conceived him self bound to do. It appeared to him (Lord Aber deen), that His Majesty had no other line of con due to pursue than that which he adopted; namely. to demand an assurance from his Ministers, that so long as oey continued his ci ofidential servants, they would not take upon themselves to propose measures of that nature. When, therefore, the late Ministers got the merit of adhering strictly to what they conceived to be their own line of duty, it should also be recollected, that they ought to have attended en the real construOion of the cath formerly taken by His Majesty, by which he was equally bound as Ivey were. The Noble Marquis had hinted at some secret adviser, tend had stated, that the Constitu tion had admitted of no aft of the Crown without some responsible adviser. This last ;night be the case, and vet) , necessarily so ; but it was surely im possible to make out that to be true which was false, or give reality to that which has none. lie ..eras convinced, it those advisers were demanded, ww. - A., • •• ~ ?~ i that none other would be fonad than the secret die , ketes et fits tsil..jesty's own - eonseienA.. If, hcravever. at was to toes that thb-Ortsent Mintstets wells 'no O ei btresponsible toth. fir •deceoors, he could see no rearms for their shrinking !tom that responsibility, for it appeared to him mat it was the only line or eondnll that His Majesty could nave pursued, con sistent with his crvo dignity and honour, and in conformity with his na. oral disposition. It had been argued. that this :evolved a question intimately eonnetted wait the Constirution ; out, for his part. he could see no other connrßion it had with it, than that it seemed to caustera3 the free exercise of the undoubted prerogative of use Crown ; and under these ciicumstancss he should therefore move the previous qnestia.. The Earl of HARDWICK!: said, that having in vestigated, with great care, every pat of the sitb;ea, be had the satistaihion to think that lie was enabled give a clear and decided opinion upon it. 'lleac could be no doubt, in the mind of any man who impartially considered this country, either in its do r ritestic situation, or in relation to its colonies. dependencies, or connesaiort with foreign countries, that the removal of His Majesty's late Ministers was the most unfortunate event that could have taken place in the present conjunflure of affairs.— Firmness and stability w. re essentially requisite at the present moment ; for such an Administration as the last, who had been appointed by His Majesty, wi.h the general: concurrence of His people ; he should be exceedingly glad, could he be convinced that those who had succeeded them, possessed simi lar qtafications. He, however, considered their appointment as hostle to the real interests of the country ; and therefore it was, that he exceedingly regretted the change which had taken place. He also thought, that the late Ministers had been most injuriously treated, and their c indild most un fairly misrepresented. In their endeavours to as• similate the law of the United Ktn.olorn to the Irish Ad of Parliament, passed 1793, they had been stated; as attempting to deceive the King. But how was such an allegation borne out ? There existed no Test Law in Ireland fir Protestant Dissenters ; so that in assimilating the Laws of the two countries, these would have been the only description of His Majesty's subjeds, in both of them, that would have been eschadA from eijoying the privilege of legally holding high Commis suns in the Army. Although the original intention of the late Ministers was n• idler more nor less than that of assimilat. ,ng the Laws in that tespeet, yet suet inge nuity Mg!it account for their br ny(ng - for ward the late Biil. But another much more co gent reason after wards occurred to them, as cre ating the I,ecesoty of • variation, without any in wimp of deception on their part. It was stated, by a Noble Earl, who was Chief 'Secretary in Ire land, in the year 179 J ; that at the time of passing the Irish Act. sow, promise was held out, mac the prov Lions of it should be afterwards applied to the N..y. (lice , the :Voile iced was iatterspud by a cr ... / A./ ea I/ He had, at least, understood it to have b:eil sa stated. The girl •nt BUCKINGHAMSHIRE (the Noble Lord alluded to) here rose to explain, that it was rm• rly in the contemplation of the Go vernment of Cis country, itt the event of the Bid passing the tri,h Parliament, to introduce a simi lar Mill revealing die Navy ; but he never did sate, nor could he conceive it possible, that the passing of any Bill in the Irish Parliament, could enable the fish Catholics to enter into the Navy. The Earl of HAIIDWICKE continued and said, ,that the opinions of certain lawyers had been taken upon the subject, at the time of passing the Irish Ad t and it certainty, at all events, did behove His Majesty's Ministers then to bring forward a 13111 to extend its provisions to the Navy, so as to try the effed of it. This, therefore, amounted to a proof that there was no intention of aiming at deception. The whole charge against the late fslin;sters„ amounted to notiong m ae than that of a mere accident it timis.ion, in not explaining .sufficiently the charges that were found necessary, and which they found themselves bound to introduce. When the misunderstanding was discovered, what were they to do ? they did that which it became them to do • as men inclined to at in an honourable capacity towards their Sovereign and their Country. Tory with drew the Measure, because they found it im possible to assimilate the two Ads, without ex citing discontents amongst the Protestant Dis senters in both countries, unless they extended the provisions beyond the limits of the Irish Mt. —Such being the circumstances of the case, he thought it was highly criminal in any other set of Ministers to endeavour to excite alarm, as to ■ny intentions having been entertained of overturning the Established Church. He should wish to speak as resp.dfully of the present Ministers as possible, but he could not conceive, that they were men possessed of those abilities and qualifications sn essentially ne. cessary for the preservation of the interests of their country, either domestic or foreign. The motion, therefore, had his most hearty concurrence. Lord ERSKINE—.. My Lords, I rise for the first time, to deliver my opinion upon this subjee. It is one, upon which, like most other subjeds, the opinions of men must be expened most mate rially to differ. I think, that on the present occa sion, the question ought to be discussed fairly upon the consideration of the words of the motion itself, without endeavouring to distort them. Any de parture from that principle ought nether to he deemed contemptible, than as tending to produce lasting impressions. 'through involving compli cated details, it is brought before you in a manner that can admit of no doubts as to its real import, at least in the minds of rational men. I have stated the meaning of the words of the Motion, shortly, as I understand them ; and if any blame be at all attachable, then' can at least be none attach.2,l to me in discussing the sulijeft now before your Lordships. The Noble Lord who has just sat down, has anticipated a considerable pit of what I meant to say. That long list of penal and disabling statute•, which existed previous to the year 1793, were, at that time, in a great degree swept away by the be nevolent disposition of His present M.sjes:y ; and 1 hope and trust that the Roman Catholics of Ire land will, at all times, recoiled, that it was in this happy Reign they had many of their penalties swept away. This, I am coaviticed, will be their feeling, when I reflca upon the maMosess of t' e Inds charades. It has been during this Reign, dr« , ! ~.._. < <l`"`" they have .net cot). been received into the Civil, hut the. /slilitasy Departments of the C• unit ; and fur these extensions of their privileges, t ley wid ever t.ear a grateful remembrance of the he nig try of their Sovereign. Such has been their situation ever since the year 17•)9 to the pre•'r,t moment, a period of 14 years; but when Hie Ma• jesty's late Ministers were called upon to assume the Government, they were undoubtedly placed in a very particular situation. Your Lordship, must surely feel that the preelicament in which the coun try was placed, was such as naturally made them wish, by all constitutional and leg rl means, to avail themselves of the utmost force which coald be procured. They entertained some hopes, not only of strengthening our own resources, of augmenting our commerce, and adding to our prosperity; but also of delivering Europe from the unbounded aggressions of France. These were objedts which could not be accomplished without endeavouting to avail themselves of the whole cf the force that could tie raised from annong.t all Hit Majesty's suhjeers of every description.— Additional motives for such intentions were no doubt afforded them by the recent Union with Ireland. Such were the desirable objeas which occurred to my Noble Friend, and others of His Majesty's late Counsellors. Where was the difficulty of opening a proposition which had been formerly opened to the Catholics of Ireland ? They had already been found deserving of the favour of their Sovereign ; and where, I would ask, was there, in these pro ceedings, a:sy cause of alarm, that the Church was likely to be endangered ? Notwithstanding this my couviaion, my Liods, I do not say thee I would have consented to the Bill in question. On the contrary, I h id strong onjeaions to it ; and I shall this night shortly explain the foundation cf the oh. jettions I now entertain. Because, by the present existing law, that a man may be an Ensign, or Lieutenant, or Major, or Colonel, bat nut one step farther, that lie cannot be an officer upon the Staff, is it from thence to be• argued, that, were such absurdities to be done away by further pro•u. - tioa being allowed, His Majesty's oasts and cowci euce would not be sate; or, that the Church is to he alarmed, and the State endangered? No inan out cf doors, nor within these walls, can, with justice or propriety, say that such const•queuees would be likely to arise either to Church or State, by the mere as of making such dicinftions. I must tell the Noble Earl. who spoke first, in answer to the Noble Moyer, that there is in this motion no implied censure upon His Majesty. There is no waist ef respect nor His islejesty . It is equally for the interest of the Sovereign and the people of tins country. that no such idea should prevail as that which this present motic n is intended to do away. Why did the NnOle Lord, at the head of his late Councils, ask the King's permission to lay the whole lasts before your Lordships, which could not be known but in the Cabinet? Was it no: for the purpose of showing where the responsibility rested, and to ascertain where those individuals were who advised the King? Did lie profess to state the mat ter as an opi ,ion of the King. himself ? I am the last man who would wish to see the King curtailed in hes power, or abridged in the exercise of his wisdom and discretion for the goo.: of the country ; for sure I WTI, my Lords, that every thing that is the fruit of as Majesty's virtue and his own sug gestion, is calculated for the benefit and happiness of his people. riis Mejesty's late Ministers finding themselves in that situation, made that proposition, which went beyond the Irish Aa. After you have experienced the good candela of man in any one situation, you may surely venture to trust bon in another. It is fit that you should open the iniiitai y profession to those who risk their lives in the ser vice of their King and Country. I again state that is impossible for any candid or honourable man to say that this condo& of the late Administration amounted to an unjustifiable or irregular stretch of His Majesty's conscience. If it was not so in the first instance, it could not be so fn the second. None of these ()Nations were opposed to the repealing of any of the penal Ails in Ireland. His Majesty can have no detetmination which is inconsistent with his duty, or the advantage of the country; for those who advise him are the authors of his determination. I shall take it fur granted, that there was a mis understanding ; but when a misunderstanding occurs, it is extremely easy to say, that men, even of the most unquestionable honour and integrity, when it suits their ptopose, intended to deceive ; hut in the present instance, there is no foundation for such supposition. Where can any imputations apply to them, when the misunderstanding appeared evident t What Gould they do more than abandon the Bill which was introduced ? But it is said, that they gave a pledge by the very ait of withdrawing the Bill. That 1 deny ; for there is a great differ ence between political expediency and imperious necessity. '1 hey abandoned the bill only in defer ence to His Majesty. at a time when they deemed it expedient to do so ; but they reserved to them selves the power, consistent with their duty, of considering when there might be occasion for it ; because a time might afterwards occur, when their withholding or withdrawing such a measure, might be much more injurious to the King and to the country, than it was at the present mo ment. 'They determined to keep themselves in dependent, and to come under no constraint.- 1 confess that, at this moment, I cannot perceive what offence such a reservation could possibly give to His Majesty; nor can I imagine tYat he could have taken it up in the light he did, unless it had been misrepresented to him. I shall live and die in the opinion, that this ad of the removal of His Majesty's late Ministers. merely from their not giving such a pledge, was not the result of His Ma jesty's wisdom, it being so unlike his condua upon all oceadons ; a condua, which has been all along masked by candour, bononr, and sagacity. It was diaated to His Majesty, by those who sur rounded him, and who secretly doomed the late Administration to dissolution. ( Lord a.hproontion, isqd cries of Hear! Aerie ! from arc Uppnitio,a beist,tes•J I by no means am limbo. d to make any insinuations against any Noble Lord or Hon. Gentleman who has told us, or who shall tell us, upon their ho nou►, that lie WAS not such adviser ; as I should he indignant, were not the some belief attached to my own wand ; but that doe, nut change my opinion. We Ali know, my Lords, that their are wheels within wheels, in the Folios:al aler.:4ltle, as in a silk ; some of . which are seek en • deep,' ge e as far in th dt,k, thet it is impessetle to tt 1 ceive their secret operations and ultimo.. elan. I:he abandonment et the m ea su re pl aced H , NI, : j eety and his Mteisters upon the v e ry vane in ,, i in which iii y both well* woe' a they !Tice. ?ley more. th e y h a d s h own a ittail,:d deterenee to Ks Al. s t y. In e ting this, thee may be lei.] to hive Rune further aileanele or ; t hey ' , but they foresaw, at toe time. that it te.ll nut he attended wi t h bitch slotigeree t e quence-t, as it would have been if they had re. bten cautious in making that reservation. As is the Peel resale , tl sae telly say. that I never saw et bait this'', may sae, that if 1 bad, I would Loom jested to . 41. Ras reasons which I Shall tiatttbt ii• ben) , of stating to your Lordships. I may fist ' sieve, that I would 'Wert hive onjefteri to e, t r ee because I knew the King objeCted to it ; ever meght be his opinion, arid his aperehree it was the solejte2. nut the King. that waste • e , t ; el eponsible. It we were to s e en I an Addle : , r King. praying to be informed as to tee! e - his Advisers, and that aoy Noble Lord, or • person, in this, or in the odes House, were sorer, that such an Address was supeeoter WS merely the dictates of his Is; : conscience ; I stetted think it woele ie: a re suleeet to be de:ermieed in the large Hell /Weitz. ing, rather than in yout Lordship's Hues, (L eh i cries i f brat ! hear! hear .1 I will, my Leeds, hazard my reputation as a Constitutional Lee ree . upon this very proposition, t h at it is not comme e fur any subjeft, eithe r in the House of Lords ae Commons, to meke such an answer to such a Mee sage. I was na advocate for this Bill; bat never conceived that the Kitio's Coronae", Oeh had any thing to do with it. The proposiue of the iilegehty of the pledge, was comidered 4% a chi:dish truism; but was the King the wi t h er , f it Is the Coronation Oath can hoed to the chards alone ? Is His Majesty not to zevern the realm by the established laws and customs ? I hope that any bad consequences may be averted, and th..t Coe rapacious enemy of this country will have his hands full in other cut asters, and that the brave Russians .4 ill lee able to wastand him. But, :ay Lards. you cannot alter the nature of man. Yee tion after Petition may yet be presented tram tee Catholics, and ordered to lie upon your 'fable, and when will the time come when you are to wide:a it? Ate they to take this as a declaeatinn, that the time win never come? Any man who can come forward and say. that His M ijesty has said so, a,.1 that it :hell be so, ought to eel tried for see n .1. I tidy. that the King can have no wish but that aerie is declared to be fur the good of the creratry, ant there:ore no blame can be imputed to him. the Catholic Question has nothing to do with thin pre. sent queStien. Weet is to be the con:equerics it the Catholic Question is to come forward every ;ear. and that the same dot:trig:ea are to be held out, and to come like a play over toe Constitution, tire lLa advisers of the King are, as it were, pushed into corner, at 1 time a-eca it :nay be less convenient, tot absolute; y necessary to grant concessions? It as estouiseirig to see Willi whet readiness some n take advantage of such a re: cuinstisce as that which has lately uceuriee. L has bean said that the present Mainers have given lei pledge—l believe it; (oil I could net surpf,e 1 that any set of men could be so lost to a stn of the duty they owed to their Sovereign and thc:e country, as directly to swear to such a stipulation as would deprive them of their services. gut the thing speaks fur itself. His Majesty skews then etas Minutes of what occasionej the dismissal of late Ministers ; they accept of their siteations, ant it is certainly implied that they do so under Owe terms wnich the others rejeeted, although no dine pledge is requited of them. I cannot enter into their minds and ascertain the condition of their con sciences ; but this I can say, that their Acceptant, under such circumstances, is pregnant with danger. With regard then to the Catholic Question dull, I am quite sure of this, that there is not a man mire devoted to the Protestant religion, and the einetrin s of Christianity thin I /TM I languish to sae t; woad brought into that state of perfeCtion, that el will believe in it ; and upon that principle it is des I wish to keep hack, as tar as possible, 411 those the pediments, which arise from a contrary belief, to the advancement and attainment of that object. —I wish, ray Lord., to overcome all co.,:e superstitions which tend to retard the progress of the Christian religion ; so that the enligi : :- ened part of mankind, by coming in aid el e Revelations of God, a great change may be pre duced upon the face of the Earth. Where Chile tianity is. in faa..the object, men will naturally are pruacli nearer to the same sentiments with each other. Such. then, are the principles, upon white I would have deemed it consistent witn my cee science to have vine." against that At cf inent, (rent a convietion that it would go to menu rage that Religion, which is founded upon etroneo:e and supet 'minus doctrines, and thereby retard ten progress of the general establishment of Cluistit laity, so desirable. As, however, my oojeeions it do not proceed from an acquiescence in what srs said to be the sentiments of His Majesty, and so. highly approve of the conduel of his late Admires• tration proposieg what they in their emaseiestee deemed for the good of the country. and th upright toe let in refuting to enter into any iee proper stipulations; upon these grounds. I er tainly think that the country has occasion to regret their dismissed; and, therefore. not only give le! worm to the motion, but my thanks to the Nati Marquis for having brought it forward. Lord JERSEY spoke in favour of the Moen; and— The Eat of SELF IRK rose. but irk , in so l ost es t L iot,t o ti ch i g co uld d a lainAcso celled but little of his spe ech R t R it. OWBY argued at considerib ls a He declared himself an independent and calm iii.quirer into the circumstances which had eeri er : periled the late change in His Majesty's Comic b• and could see no rational ground to conclude , ra t they had been removed through the le/loathe re se cret advisers; i.e was, therefore, hostile in the re . solution, to far as it went to make out a cha r g e et this nature. He was firmly convinced , that lice His Msjesty been persuaded of the absolute nee.-- would have yielded to their ode:eta:ions , city of the concession proposed by the Illionrisatrty:c4l::