The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-04-27 00:00:00

i t f..r Ir. Mellish to continue while them is Ws. Perhaps Mr. Mellish will explaMbimPlirs and I think you sio well, for.your orrm saris. f.ction,•t,) hear him: [This was a salitiffOistn - the ithulders did not seem al alt disposed to sr joy Mr. BYNG.....Gendemeo, Freeholders of the . C;onlity of Middleseg--4 think it right, upon the pre s ent occasion, to come fo,ward, in order to awre you, that I shall with great pleasure pre. Sent your Petition to the House of Commons ; tad 1 hope and trust you will Pel confident that I shall support the principles upon which your Petition is foundetl. [Great Applause.] I think Gentlemen, that the House of Commons ought to be armed with great Power ; but I also think that 1 its power Ahould only be need for the protection of the people. it is necessary, on many occasious, that they rhould have this power t but the only occastiotis on which they shoold cacreise It ;re, those where their proceedings sr. likely to b l an. royed. I think, therefore, that the Majority of the House of Commons have dime wrovi4- fiV . the present instance. I think that to define the privi leges of the House of Commons would be difficoh; but I am of opinion, that where the nicessityfor exerting them ceases, the privilege, theinstives should cease; Lain also of opinion, it could bat productive of no benefit to the Muse of Cons. mons to notice the discuskion which was intended ___ ..._.. ..__ . to take place by Jones in the Debating Society, .•f which he was the Manager. It was meant to in a . discussion which went merely to criticize the pest conduct of the House of Conan►ens, and I th in k that the conduct of the 'Members of that !loose ought at ell times to be cyiticited and submitted to fair and free discussion. For the same reaming, Gentlemen, I could not possibly have vied that the Pamphlet which Sir Francis Burdett wrote fo ' his Constituents *ea a libel. And, Gentlemen, though I gave my vote for an adjournment, • I would rather have met the question, and voted the publication no libel. I think Sir Francis Burdett had a right to address his Constituents, and satis fy them of the grounds upon which be had acted ; and I certainly believe that Sir Francis Burdett never meant that his Letter to his . Constituents etntild be considered as a lihrl upon the House of Commons ; because, in the course of his Address, he three times makes an exception as to the pow ers of the House. He says, that the House of Commons cannot commit any but one of their own body ; and therefore, such being his argument, I think it never could have entered his head that hit is'as uttering a libel. No, never, exclaimed hun, dreds of Freeholders. With regard to the roes. tion of Parliamentary Reform, I think it right tb state, that from the earliest period of my life l • I hive seen and been convinced of the absolute net. ecss;ty of a Perliamentary Reform. I do not think that the .present situation of the represents. film of this country is an adequate one. In pro portion as population and wealth spread through the land, the elective franchise shonld he enlarged; but I think that the people themselves are in a great measure to blame that Parliament has net bith-rto done any thing on this subject. The peo ple themselves ought to come forward and state their opinions distinctly : sod constituted as the present Parliament is, I do think, that if they did so, the • voice of the people would be irresistible. Ido think tnat Pailiausent would act upon the sii4gestions of the people, if the people' them. selves would come forward, and freely - and loudly declare their principles. Gentlemen, l atn sorry to have heard Mr. Hare Townsend • fie • broadly attack ail public men; fur I am sure there never was a Howe of Commons in w Welt there were so many busiest men, willing to act' for the pc..ple, if the people wid act for themselves. [.Vo such thing—no such thing; there itt , el.too tretiv Placensen in it.] Gentlemen, that is nay opt. neon. If the petiple would come forsiard and de- - elare their sentiments, I am sure there is no reform • of abus e but what the House of Com mons, would agree to. [Why riot do it now n repeat, that is my opinion, and I wish, therefore, to see all honest men united. I wish to see all friends to Reform; all enemies to corruption unite htwrt and hand ; and, though there should be shades of dif. furence in opinion among them, yet, iL they are founded on a well-grounded and deep-rooted .at taehment to the rights ind libertiei of the people ; we ought not to vilify and attack one another, but, on the cut.: nary, we ought to act cordially and firmly together: Gentlemen; the enemies of Re form always are united; and nothing but a firm and determined union among honest men can defeat the machi,tatiung and the power of the foe. Mr. CIA FFORO—Gentleinen Freeholders of Aliddlesex, after the matinerin which I have been cdkd upon by Mr. Townsend, it is impossible for inc not to say a few words to you before the clues tion is put to your 'vote: Gentlemen, of all the arguments which have been urged against this power, claimed by the Honlit of Commons, the strimgest is that with *hid: Mr. flyng has concluded ' —*the excuse which he has , given for the supineness di the Nietntws of the. Hou , e of Commons, is this that the People have not met •and discussed the subject of Reform, and urged them to act tipun the result of that discussion. Now, Gentlemen, how is this cumistent with the fact ? Upon the only occasion where the right of the House of Commons has been questioned by a 11Iernber of the house of Cuminons.—by Sir Francis '8 ellen in the House, and !iy John Gale Jones out of it, t he. consequence of flock attempting to discus.; their power has beet--that the one has, by 'ire assumed anthurity of that been lodged' in Newgate, and the other has been in the Tower. (jrutlemee,lll4: 3ilslVer we ive to the asseirtton of the lion. l'qe:oher, nho states that the People tliumselree shout'] come forward is, that we have boot Sit/intim of Parliam e nt tothnHoose of Com mon:, %eh° ought to know their duty, without the, a,cestions of any one from nut of doors. Gen itensen, the privilege the House of Common, elm ink fur, is, that thoush they are the serviailli ( 2f the People, they have a right to imprison us, their "'tasters [Applause]. 'So lung so we value our, :hilts, we ought to be eautioes how we.eitfrer snits 411 ileorpiti(iii, lest, in 'the emphatic language Ot Sir Francis litirdutt, ndeubjvet ourselves to that orb, of trill ; the curse of Cumin, and become t.. a ~~-:;_ x. . ••• - • ; I, theOers'aets of sersa9b, iteenttelnens whit: 94/ ftlh from Mr. Metlieh• pee wet eurpriq will Certainly pay him this compliment --=.ti.ciptepli- I ment which cannot he paid to ',luny public rein, it ie, that from the first moment he presonted himself 'to per tipper, he has bleu always cenristcni• It is in my recollection at Brantford, what pains Sir Fsancii Burdett, dty after day, limit, in ass{ to c*tort froth this C:ettleman avowal )l i 4 principles, without' ever bang able to obtain aft an 4 -, sever froii him. Mr. MethOr did, incletal, somee times condescend to say, ‘ LOO4 S. he l. P 54 1 17 bee he never coutlesceeded to give ell reason.—. ik has come for wept te-ilay, eayineiViat lie can. , net SueeMet in the Douse of Contouona the Peti tion which yOu hive su poaeeitnnusly approved of. True it is, he has not repeated his favourite words, Look to the but he it uniformly steady and consistent ie giving 'you no reasolo. Now it, seems to me; that he has given a strong OrguIPPI seeingt the power , oat claimed, by the noose of Comnt'ons. • did think that person; might be foitod 1144 enough 19 come forward lied say they would support the power or the Ikose of Cethe mous ; 'but J certainly,could.not insegine that any man w9tslitexpose his want. of sense, by refusing to support the Oetitine of his Cep:stile/cots, with. out code:savouring tofitell a reason for his conduct, 'and without attempting to prove that the power, the exertion of whicials complented of, existed.— reienflotee, I shalt state to you my reasons for contending that no such rower does exist, and I shall contend, in opposition to Me. Hytigi and in the words of the Petition, that we ought'not only to object to the exercise of the power, but even to its existence. I . have to say, and I say. it with oonfidence, that at tie period of :the history of this kingdom, has the - :ffouse of Gammons had the power it nowclainss o :exemit et the time of the rd. hellion, when they iiidipted the /Sewers of the other branches attics Legislature. I venture to say, that the }Nose of Cottimons legally possesses no such power as they have recently exercised, and I trust, that as lime as a spark of freedom re. mains in the country, they never will he suffered to have.such powers. Gentlemen, let us not con. found power with privilege—what is the duty of the Huusc of Commons, and what are Us tune. tions. Its ditty and its functions are to enquire into, and redress public grievances--to originate and give sanction to taxes—to act as a Court of Inquiry into publiti crimes; to i%peach the delin. quents, and, If they are found guilty, to demand punishnient They cannot punish with out bringing the party to trial ; but in the present case they have claimed the power of punishment without trial. It has beets said by a person, whose knowledge of the 'Lang and Constitution of the country I highly respect—that the only ground upon which the House of Commons can exert the power it has assumed, is in the case of an ob struction to its proceediugs—but yet he observe that a libel may he such au obstruction to its pro. ceedin g s as may justify its exercise of that power; and he supposes that any two persons, Members of the House of Commons, r ho wercgoing to support a public. meeetire which might be olotroxictis to cer.. lain individuals, and they were to chance to meet with Ostrow:ion, that, in that ease, it would bctho duty of the flume of Commons immediately to imolai the offenders. I deny the proposition. If such a circumstance were to take plaee„ I contend that the Home of Cotentin's would hiee'no ritht to do any thing more thais to remove the °Wine.. tion by the adoption of legal means for that pure piss. There is uo man who hears one, that is not convinced, that an obstruction tgaiitst the whole i body of the Legislature would not be an offence of a much more aggravated description than one which is only directed agaittet itaingle branch of the legis. lature, or .an individual forming part of that branch.—rie House of Commons is not the only branch o( the legislature, ,aril surely I may sup. 1 pose that, an ehstructiint .of to one of the other. branches is, as great an offences, au obstruc tion offered. Co the lipase of Commons, or the individuals composing it. You all remember that some years ago, when Ids Majesty was going to the House. of Lords, with only his orilinary guard, .he. Wei stopped at Whitehall:by-Abe ristib —.that his . carriage was broke, and 'that he was hit by lonic dirt that that was thrown from among the 'populace. You must recollect these.eiscumstances. Now, what was the cuttse quence 1, The consequence was, that the con. stables removed the obstruction, and his Majesty afterwards went and opened the Pa'rliament. Bet did he immediately punish the offenders for the obstruction ? N0....-Kid Wake was one of the persons who was guilty, and .though this was an obstruction to one of the branches • Ur' the Legislature, yet the King did not punish him without a trial. The King diet not *et tike Yorke; but the man was tried by a Jury of hit country. 1 put this case, in order to show 'ytisti. that if the House of CoMmons, which is only a Chico branch of the Legislature, have the power they contend for, they have a power different from that . which is exercised by the other branches of the, lAvislature—they he , e a power paramount to that of the King, and if their present claim is, allowed, I should not be surprised to hear them,, maintainoliat they have in all cases power ecrial to that of the King, because they world hive no diffietilty io toakile; the Speaker's Warrant byl the application of the doctrine of analogy 'of the same force and effect as the King's Writ. it we l l Afield subscribe to these doctrines, the lima or Cminnons might vote the. wig .of the Speaker to be of equal authority with the crew'', and the dace to ham the same power as the King's Seep. tee. Now this being the case, it does seem to me' Oita strung argument against the power that those well-meaning people who have attempted to defeed it, have got lute such absitriliiies as they cannot extricate themselves from, and must have astonished all who conteuiplete Gentlemen, it seems (0 NV.' heeti the fashion to sly, that tho ug h it lnay not be right to exercise the power, yet for the benefit Of the country, it ought to exist. I say (hat A() povier ought tai exist in the House of Commons, which eves them . the right to . imprison the people of ltlitt eeentry without trial. The Weise of Corn slOUS ullghCto be possessed of no • power which • TA ' • TM STA I M A PIE . : ~ s ~ .. -1 - 1 , - , bo' exerted against the . p eople, I do let, •know Opt they can hives any power, the limits of which 'are unslefined. 4.110 w me to say it was thsg, isoomption of this poiver in the Legislature, thei r ! .test ap America. For although the Stanip,Act at; .that period was repealed because it was found to be is rung, yet those who repealed it had befetei asked fur an Act of Parliament to satiction it;' but the people of America west net to be dr. They justly thought that - the Legislat ure t ... , 1 : had adopted the measure because they 'thumbs, themselves they were sarong, had only tescind it, becaese they fotiu4 themselves to be weak.—' Gentlemen, 1 have only to observe to you, that Aim: Petition skids ham been subnigted to your eon.. aideratioo reminds you . of the ancient Constitution, of the country. There has been very little done In the preseqt instance which was not dune in the time of Mr, Wilkes, and upon that occasion the: House of Commons were oat ashamed to resehid all their former Resolutions, and to declare that they were contrary to law. Let us hei , c that the present House of Commons will nut compel us to maintain a tweety years' struggle. Let its hops they will grant, with a good graie, that for Which. we shall be grateful, instead of reluctantly yielding that which we are wresting from thews, and :for which, if so obtained, we shall owe 'them no , gratitude. There is one other.. observation arising out .of this Petition, which I. wish to offer to you. ;There is in the Petition *, passage respecting the blood of uneffending cid.l tens being shed in the 'streets of the metropolh. For one, kniust gyro I present my thank! to Sir l Fronds Burdett for so nobly standing forth: He could not otherwise hare proved to his country, that. ' there were no means of executing this unjust war. rant of the Speaker,. but by calling in the aid of, the , military. lie has 'liven', that the House of Commons can have ,nis Power which they ..do not . possess the coustitutional means of carrying irate execution. `He. has shewn, that. their assumed power has puzzled all who are entrusted. with the 'execution of the laws, It is absolutely frivolous,, to argue a question of the kind ' • it only wants to be disenssed in .order to be refited. Let us hope, that we hod that support we are entitled to, even in s corrupt and degeneste'lluitse of Commons. Let us hope, that if *with firmness and determination . 'we dotnau d our rights, opt voico will be attended to, and that the House of COmloona will not only listen to us, hut alitaro us irediesi. It wadi formerly said bj Sir 11. Walpole;speaking of the Ministers' of his day, that 66 Give them the power of blood, and you gave them blood"--that expression was afterwards parodied ,by Lord Chatham ; he gild, " Give the Huns° of ( ominous the power of corruption, and you give them Corruption.!' We cannot pm rody . 4iie ,ex pression, for the present House of. Cnuonous hate admitted that they ire corrujg. Gentlemen,. the House of Commons,. though. 'destitute_ of. the - power of executing the warrant of 'limit . Spea,icer, have claimed the power of bloost , end blood they have had. Now see, bow they Attlee executed their' warrant: It is a notorious fog, that wiikoit'thitild of the mi:itary , they could nut hate executed' it; (No, never, said may Freeholders) then the warrant is not the orirrsat of the Rollie of Commons, or of the civil power ; but it is the warrant of Ministee., and to' be executed at the pleasure of Ministers; and the; consequience must be, that the executive,; if this pretended.' power is not resisted, will pos.' sets the means of destroying whenever* wishes' the Rights and Privileges of the People through the' Houk of Commons. I ask you, Gentlemen,.hOw that power can be said to be legitimate in the. House of Commons, which cannot be carried into effect and executed without the assistance of the Crown ? Upon all - uccasions, with respect to• which history informs us, it is uniformly observe., ble, that where remittal have brought to their aid Allies more powerful. than themselves, they bate become the slaves and vassals of those who have so afforded them their assistance. Let Os hope that will not be the ,case on the present oc. casion. bet us hope that the Douse of Com. mons 'seeing the intention of the people will unite, whenever called into action, . with the declared opinion and sentiments 'of tr -people of this kingdom.. Above 01f,, , 1et u* . Appe thit the House of Commons will not rotat e to silstea . - to the voice of wisdom. Irtheyaliould. tiot, in the first instance, still let us ant despair. Let . .us repeat the same language temperately and firmly, in. order that 'they may' feel the force'Of our aigavaafis, andthen, howeterthey may affett to hold the people in ,contempt, they ..eill,Yll length, flail it iseetatiapy,'‘fiti ittelt own security, to yield to them. tOreaterpplosese.)__ L ___ , . • The Rev. _WILI,IO pit.x....--Giiritia men; I had no intention ,wien I l 'eijotts here to take 'up'your time respeetiug the eticistisittinces to dim. 'Mt which you are• callet), terrier: . ,I knew that, setts more able, and' fellati willing, would come for. OA andgins you a stronime,and deuce account Of the fraiiiit 3 tinisii irliiili , Tuitic urged - yeti to 'Mi.' .. amble; he riOniiit Wok lids transpired since I came' bete,' n hick peters te sue that the Freeholders of Addiesex,'howeiCr they May lament that their bre. therkof IVestusiniteiliive been deprived. of their representetive l are tdeln#elea in a much worse si. ,legion. Their, sisiiihy SiTid :beloved Representa. Cite cannot, it is true, is pt,pteiinit support the cause of his Constiluonts ;. btetalii.Jn, Goodenteu, he is a nap who will. never oppose the cause of his. Con. ' ',Rooms. • You,' owlhe ether hand, have a itrOle- , .6critithil WhO huts-Imikesi the .eunstit it titomi bond ; which ought ti) unite you,, for what can .bin a, greater bond of 'union than that of a 'Represent*. live anti' his Constituents? Now I conceive that 'when your Representative sits in the Housed Commons, that he sirs there as .your scrtain, and that you have an undoubted right to lay your cons. mends upon him. Could ail" man of iiense * .nosi I may say of integrity, have made the declini. tiust which your mionbet has those this day? Had he received instructions front his Cekatititents con. Crary to his private opinion, he mono have said, 66 This eeitahily is not my opinion, but it comes fresn's hiAlser authority ; it is. therefore entit lest to more respect than my opinion, fur it is the voice id the united nieetinz of the county at large." . Pen. tb•men, your Member list declared his indepeo. thmee, mid I assure you I never before heard :. . s _f -6 ••••••urviim and,. ill . . man declare- his intlependonce but 17 ; onooma respected him for so d o i ng . T his ho aud exception, and as it is Said there is en es wet i er ti il „ l i u eutoft o o f tj y ou "e r u B L every general ride, so is Mr. Mellish'sdecicae-'6O-;.°T will tell You. how he has declared his ind —he of app .b l a Le e. dec lared ti ind e p e n dence iv " i s itie se i d .support your Petition, and what vou ' conc * . "l " °t be your rights. 1 have only one W or d nt eiv r e ' 3 l would have every person clearly. understand e"- ‘ terms tliby use in the business they set oholt the Wry . opinion, the sustrest, the safest, toil hest . rc ll f all our veils is Parliamentary Reform . ; and ir i ti ; il u ' to distinguish those who are the true, or l/41 - i -tt tended friends of Reform, ask them, whet : ii use the word People, whether they mea n t h e ' y People; ask them, whether they who pa;l l .c e reckoning, are to have the right much worse situationth at of cont ro " le the accounts; or, whether these who pay wi l l " : words part of the rechiseing, are to possess that pow : - ith the for 1 think there might be partial Reform , potter,_. would leave you in a you are in at present. I shall conclude wild"' ru m of Scripture, one half of which you h a, e I often heard, but the other half of which is not i‘m, !Honour portant; the the ver s o n v g e , r , s , e hubegins ends wit h i w t 46 Honour all men." [Plaudits.] - Mr. WAPPIIM AN. —Gentlemen, Freeh o ld ers of the county of Alidillesex, after y o u h ave b een addresser! by so many of par brother Freeh o ld ers and with such ability, it would- be wrong, an d i ll become me to attempt to take up much of your time. Indeed, I enter so fully and so compl ete l y into the arguments mid observations of must of the Gentlemen who firisie spoke's this day, that I lime nothing to prop* from myself; and, in fact, they require little to be said in couOrmatien of them. Gentlenien,• one Worthy friend, Mr: - Clif. I.ferd, hair elated, 'the 114 prevent content simper to the contest. which this. country was en, gaged In forty years . ago. ;It is eery true :hat at that particular - period, your rights and liberties were.attitelied; tot by the Spetker'e . IYarrant hut by the, warrant of ISecrerery of State. 'the hli. glisters of "that - day...claimed a .right . of .breakie, into matt: Iseltoesoind seizing their mess by virtue of 4 . sootetar of Staters .Warrant, _ , sed we certainly. Witch to that , (M r . ~Wilkes), whitevEt shades we may discover in his ~eliaraiser, for the noble stand he made. Iso _persuaded, that . ife be the result of that contest,' period had not beetivnt to the pretended power of a Secretary of:States ' Warrant, none of would have met iipon this day to express our opt. .nion of a trsusaction•witlets is very touch of o miler nature. I think you. will agree Oh on that during the suspession of tile- Rabe*. Curlers Act, and during the Opt:alien of thspe go / to ot s eels of the House of Commune of late years, if Ministers had the ppwcr, no Englislunio told be securie)n 'either hjs 'property, his libortr, or his life, The preoyot Ministers .h.ive :wt rcArirt-1 to precisely the some expedients'r but tio'y hare resorted W another, which woehl 'billions/Ird their Peepuse. fiat as well ; and if they hul succeeded, 'they would only have bad 1p hire ph. stituted the Speaker's warrant for the Secretary of State's warrant. Gentlemen, it must be peel et. ly welt known . to you, that the repreeentatire body were armed with this power, as fat sp they have a right to it, in prder to use it for the pro. teetion of the people against the encroachments of the other branches of the Legisteture. It is !Pled by all Constitutional Writers, that the three 'Estates of this Kingdom arc so. formed, that they have the poster of counteracting the user. pation of each other. Though they are united is one bod,v, yet they arc geparatelytarmed with a police which is calculated to prevent any undue encroachments by ILI one branch upon the priri. lege' which form the basis o f the other. If, therefore, the Legislative branch has a right to exercise this power against the people, soil to call .upon the liwistive to assist them p what it, in effect, but st power in the !mods of the Crown It appears to me that if this assumed right of the Rouse of Commons is persisted in, we are in the Situation in which it was declared, by the Bare! , Montesestieu, that our liberties would be at op end. .Thatphilosopher has stated, that whePefef Olean' presentative Power was nominated or competed by the Executive Power, the Constitutleeearaf! tend would perish, and for Pas rr0500..410. ass presentativeiindy, inktead of being the proteetorS of the rights of the people, would be the meats for enforcing the Prerogitiec of the Crown, and eicrcise.that *rattily over the People which the Crown of itself would not be able to effect. Gentlemen, I would now Overt to the particelar point which ind,sco I me to come foreard, for, much as I approve of the custluet of one of the Gentlemen who has adders . sed seetl who it, your Representative, and highly as I think in his 'honourable and independent principles, 1 mudt take the liberty of making ga obserst• lisle spots what has tallest from him, [le has said, that urh3 pteght not to abuse public reep. I agree With him, that we ought not to do so withyut kid .occasion. Hut, Gentlemen, public men have a great:duty to perform, and if they are neldigent of that doty—jf, instead of consulting the inte rests of the people, they net for piety puttees's, or with a view to their oen ensolumeist, 1 10 11 then become subjects urjust ani:aadversiun. It matters nut to the people who governs t he . country,. provided it is well • gove rned. 11 , e ought nut to trust to any particelae but rather look up to she I.iw and CuPstitn'''' n _ of the country, amid to those flows independe n t ! men who,..haviog no object butt the :he:people, arc attached to nu particular or factions. It is ucorious circumstance, tid: one of your Represeiktatives should ha ve told that 0 you are of opinion a Reform in Poo• meat is neetes i ary, ion should tunic furwatJr.” 4 : o "troll twa Olen 'that this indivi dual I &IN" and others retail(' also be indncei to We wArit, in order to assist you in rilitaiiliag (12 .' form fur which yot4 are su anxious.. 'tkituthet.t", Who, iv alas your Itepremeniallve, told yo. l l 0144 lte i, ittdeoendaltt of you. W aa l: is That yoe have sent him to P.irliainent, w her ' to act , for himself, acc , srding ''' hi an i4dgifetom--tio says, if 4 ii,deritama hls o pl _cif.' ~ ~~ Axl tit di Y 1 la • t'