The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-06-12 00:00:00

r 7 -' ' , i t , , . f. i formed, although Some dissimilitude of opinion, on minor points, might exist—the great principles of.. it.tortial and external policy being agreed upon. On the Orders in Council, and the policy pursued by this country t owards America, it was considered better when the negociation was corn. mewed, not to come to any decision, as the details were intricate and complicated, but to decide only I en those great measures with which the parties were most immeAiately connected, leaving other points to future arragement and discussion. The Right Hon. Gent. then read sevel al documents, which had been omitted by Mr. Ponsonby, and observed, that see ing the faieness with which the proposition had been made, and deeply lamenting its failure, he felt it his duty to offer his humble services to the Prince Re i‘eit. It had been repeatedly asserted, that his Royal Highness had interposed the question of the Household, and thereby caused the failure. This was most unfounded, as he would speedily and sa tisfactorily prove. airing the commission the Earl of Moira had from the Prince Regent, he men tioned that the llouse:lold interfered, most ma- terially interfered, with the negociation between his Lordship and the two Noble Lords (Grey. and 1 Grenville). The Prince Regent, with that magna 'limity which he ale ays possessed, said, " If my Household is in iie way of public good, I give it up to their discretion."—On which the No ble Earl returned for answer, " My Prince, I can never consent to it, for I think you have al ready given up sufficient."—[blear!] —This state ment he (Mr. Canning) thought was due not only to his Royal Highness, bit to the Noble Lerd (Moira), and another Noble Lord (Yarmouth) who had made *a statement, that the Household would resign, if .it was necessary for the country's welfare. When speaking of my Lords Grey and Grenville, he said, their integrity and talents were_great ; but it was a question for the House and country to consider, whoteer the great preponderance of aristocracy or weight of landed property should go before abi lit y ? [Hear, hear!] —This was a kind of argument that that great man, Mr. Burke, said, was right ; but he could not see why wealth should go before ability.— Pear, heart] —Being olSliged to enter into a detail, he thought it his duty to give the explanation he had. It was not his intention to vote on this question, for which reason he would ask liberty to withdraw. — [The Right Hon. Gent. withdrew for a few minutes, and returned, on which he and Mr. Ponsonby mu tually explained.] Mr. 'II HaNEY began by stating that the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last appeired to him from his speech to have entered on the late negocia lions with warm, and, as he believed, unfounded prejudices against the high connections which existed amongst his friends. It was hard to accuse his Friends of being unreasonable in their demands, after the Marquis Wellesley had stated in a letter to Earl Grey that he had not been able to procure authority to explain what he meant. [Hear, hcar!l Then, as to the propositions of Lord Moira, and the accu sation against his Noble Friends of damping the hopes oT the country, and depriving it of their ser vices ut a time when they were so necessary; they bad thought it fair to as% in the outset, whether the Noble Fed had powers to agree to the usual changes in the Officers of the Household, —the usual changes, be repeated, and not a change of the whole House hold, nor any thing like It. Theanswer of the Noble Earl was, that his powers were unrestricted; but on public grounds he could not agree to this. Then they mid a new piece of information.—The conver sation between Lott! Meira and the Prince. If he bad been in the situation of Lord Moira, the plan which tie should have thought most proper to adopt, could have been to have read the minute of the con. versation het ween him and the persons to whom he had applied, and then leave it to the Regent to judge of it; but Lord Moira, certainly not, he should think, in the theatrical manlier of the Right Hon. Gentle man, asked the Prince witether, if he proposed to him to remove any of the officers of his Household, he would agree to it. His Royal Highness replied, every one of them. Upon which the Noble Earl was stated to have said, then not one of them shall be re moved. He defied the annals of the world to pro duce any such termination of a negociation as this. When the Prince was ready to grant more than was required—when every thing was settled—instead of going back and saying I am happy to be able to in form yon that all difficulties are removed—a difficulty is immediately started, and the Noble Lord said, then not one of them shall be removed. But sup pose, as the Noble Lord had that night stated their intentions. to have been, some of the members of the Household had said we will go? If Lords Grey and Grenville had known what the Noble Lord (Yarmouth) had that night stated respecting the Household, would this difficulty have occurred? There wouel have been no difficulty on this point ; and some other trick or dt vice must have been found to prevent the formation of the Administration. [Hear! Lear!,] It was not Lords .Grey and Grenville who had brolvii dr . the negociation, but Lord Moira. The Right totLGentleinan had said, there - were difficul ties in the way'not to be overcome; but he (Mr. Tie rney) said, that after the explanations which they had heard that night, there were none. The business might be settled to-morrow. If Lords Grey and Grenville had been in the room during the conversa tion at Carlton House, the difficulty would have been at an end; and some other difficulty must have been conjured up to get rid of the Administration. The country wished for a combined Administration. The general principles on• which pow erful parties could combine, had been agreed upon. The only difficulty that stood in the way had now been done away ; and why did they not go on to form the new Administra tion ?—But then, they must first get rid of the old one. To this the Members of the old one were na turally averse. They would be happy, they said, to get an accession of' strength; but then the question was, who was to go out ? Very glad to see you, they said, but can't ask you to sit down : there are no chairs. [A laugh.) But if they could make room they might very well say, our's is the most convenient Cabinet in the world for you to join: we care nothing about your principles; this is liberty hall ; every one may do. as he pleases : for the basis of our Cabineris, that we are to have no Cabinet measure at all. [Hear, hear! ant ( a,langlq All this might be very pleasant, but what would the country think of it? Were the Centinons to 04 back the same Ministry, even . • ; f Gp7 ~ • , , •••-7 , - •:... tt....).•''' ~ . .. '7 77 1 THE STATESMAN. worse than it was before ; for it had a fixed princi ple, that of resistance to the Catholic Claims, when It met with its sudden death ? Suppose it• were pro posed not to make the war in the Peninsula a Ca binet measure. One Member of the Cabinet would say, I must have a vote of 10,0001. for the Peninsula; another would say,—no i • I think that too much,--I must have only 5001. and a corporal's guard.—[A laugh.]—Was it possible to form an efficient Admi. nistration on such a principle? The House of Com mons must, in point of consistency, do something to support its former Address. Lord yAttmount and Mr. TIERNEY mu• tually explained. Lord ROBERT SEYMOUR said a few words. Mr. FULLER asked, whether the Household Places were the whole of the Noble Lords' con cern ? Was this their love for their country ? ,Lord Moira was ready to give up this point ; and then the other Noble Lords deserted him, and would not leave him a single friend to his heart. Colonel MARTIN defended the conduct of the Prince Regent, and should vote against the ameod- . ment. Lord CASTLEREAGH said he had but two points ilium which he meant to trouble the House at that late hour with any observations. As to the wording of the original motion, he thought it in every way unexceptionable, but he put it to the feeling and un. derstanding of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Wortley), if it could be understood to have any other import than .that of throwing a shade upon the present Ad. ministration. All that Administration asked was fair constitutional confidence on the part of Perna ment--[hear 1 7 -they wished to be tried only by their measures, and not to be condemned untried and unheard. [Hear, hear . 1 ] With respect to the only part of the late political discussions in which he took any share, and that share with no little Mitt to him self, he vindicated his conduct on the score of public duty, and denied that he had been influenced by the slightest personal animosity to the Noble Marquis (Wellesley); He then entend into the same explana tion given by Lord Ila rro w by, tracing his objections to acting with Lord Wellesley to a most unseason able publication, attacking the political measures, the competency of his late Right Honourable Friend and his other Colleagues. The Noble Lord then ad verted to what he called the new mode of carrying on negociations of this nature, when men of 'high honour could not enter a private room to consult amicably upon the necessary artangetnents without being politically pitted against one another, armed with pen and ink, to give birth to controversy, that could only serve to feed the worst passions of the ma. lignant.--[llear, hear!]-111 adverting to the pre sent Government, he repeated, that he wanted nothing from Parliament but to jadge of them by their acts; as to the objection that had been made to their arrange ments respecting the Catholic Question, he thought it did not come quite so well from Gentlemen oppo. site, who, when in power, allowed two of their Ca- Ibinet (Lords Sidmouth and Ellenborough) to reserve to themselves the right of opposing in Parliament a measure thought b 3 the rest of the Government to be• vital to the State. He could, however, say this of the present Government, that they were wholly united, that there was no division among them, and that as they had not pushed themselves into power, so neither had they sh; unk from the duty the gra. cious commands of his Royal Highness had impala- upon theM. Mr. WOI.LTLEY rose, amidst a loud cry of question. He said, that as his motion was not likely to be supported by either side, he certainly should not press it to a division, but after that had been disposed of, he should feel it his duty to vote for the Amendment of the Noble Lord ; for he cer tainly could not consent to tell the country by his vote that night that he thought the present Ministers, either a strong or an efficient Administration. Mr. HUAISSON made some observations, but the impatience of the House for the question b.come so great, that we could collect only, that they were meant to vindicate some part of his Right Honour able Friend (Mr. Canning's) share in the late nego ciations. After a few words from Mr. Barham and Mr. Gas coigne, Mr. Wortley's Resolution and Lord Folke stone's Amendment were severally negatived without a division. The House then divided upon Lord Milton's Amendment, when the numbers were, For the Amuck:teat - 161 Against it - - 289 Majority for Ministers - —125 During the - time that the supporters of the Amend ment were in the lobby, Mr. Ponsonby addressed them, and begged that Gentlemen would remain in town until Thursday next, when the sincerity of the Declaration of Ministers on the Catholic Question would be put to the test. Mr. Brougham entreated that Members would favour him with their attendance to-morrow, in con sequence of the notice given by Mr. Rose, by an un precedented attempt to postpone the discpssion on the Orders in Council, which he Ind WOL4or Tuesday next. The /louse then adjourned at Three o'Cleet. . ** • • POPULARITY OF TILE PRINCE REGENT! ! f—Yes terday, at a numerous meeting of the Booksellers of London and Westminster, the health of our good old KING was given after dinner, and drank witness... thusiasm. The next toast proposed by the Chair, as a matter of course, was, " The PRINCE when a burst of indignation, and a universal MP; followed. So much for the opinion of men, *hi ) " from the nature of their pursuits, cannot be-sip- posed either ignorant of sound constitutional prisig. pies or of the public opinion. BOXING.—The best contested pitched battle which has occurred for a length of time, took place yester day on Willsdon Green, between Malik) and Harry Harmer, a relation of Belcher. The seconds were Richmond and Belcher for llarmer, and 'l'. Jones for Maltby. The battle continued 37 minutes, in which 15 rounds were fought. Ilarmer always ' kept the lead, by a quickness of hitting which kept his antagonist in a state of stupor. Maltby con ' tested the battle under the disadvantages of fast fight . - ing, with the utmost good temper and manhood un til the 37 minutes had expired, when time obliged him,to yield under severe sufferings, and he was car ried out of the ring by his seconds. . . ..• . • v BY AUTHORITY. This ilitv wits published. price Sr. 64. rrHE AUTHENTIC CORRESPONDENCE A nod DOCUM ENT'S. explaining the Proceedings n$ the Marquis wELLEsLr.y hod the Earl of MOIRA. in the Re cent Nevi. lotions for the formation of an Administration. Printed for Richard Phillips, 4J, Inizate-hill, and to he had of nlt Boolorliers.-IWered sit Itintioners' HA. Arr. Mails. Doe. 2 2 1 PRICK OF STOCKS TIIII4 Hank 3 per Cent. Cons. 3 per Cent. Red. 58111 i 4 per Cents. 731; per Cent. Navy Long. Ann. 151 IMY AT ONP. O'CLOCK. Win Bonds 3 dii. Exrhenner Hill• 30.12 d Ditto Sad. 9 4 par. Monition C 011.5013 for Acct. 591 i lAttery Tickets THE STATESMAN. LONDON: /BUM; JIM It, isit Tali WAN. The Gentlemen who attended Lord LIVERPOOL - and Mr. VANSITTART this morning, were informed, that the sum to be raised is TWENTY-TWO MILLIONS FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND POUNDS!!! 120 in the 3 per Cent. Reduced for every £lOO. The bidding lo Consuls on Tuesday neat; and 4 per Cent. allowed for prompt payment. DEPOSITS. 19th June • 10 per Cent. 17th July .- . ...10 214 Mpg .ll 48th Sept 10 43d Oct ..11; 20th Nov 10 18th Dec... lO 1813, 414 Jan 10 19th Feb. lO • The Stocks have been falling all the morning, on account of the Loan. The 3 per Cents. Reduced began this morning at 59,',; at one o'clock they were sg.t. Last year the Loan was only Twelve Millions. An Anholt Mail, which arrived this forenoon, has brought us accounts from Gottetiburgh to the 7th ' instant. An article in the Swedish Papers. 3 1ted St. Petersbuigh, 10th April, states, that 6, utmost exertions were then making by the Emperor. ALEV. ANDER, to procure transports for conveying troops from Finland, supposed to be destined for Memel. — The number wanted was so great, that orders had been sent to Sweden to engage some, for which . .high premium was to be given. Those who may in fer from this circumstance, a disposition on the part of the Emperor of Russra, to renew the war with France, will soon have reason, we believe, to change their opinion. The. Board of Xrade in this country, have already suspended the granting of Licences for the sailing of neutrals to the Baltic; and It is understood they are . in future *to be .dispensed I with. This circumstance amounts to a pretty plain indication on the part of our Government, that no reliance is to be placed on the rumours of hostilities being about to commence between France aad ans sia ; but that, on the contrary, the approach of the troops of both these Emperors to the shores of the Baltic, is for the purpose of co-operating in mea snres calculated effectually to shut out all British commerce in that quarter. So long as we can have a fleet in those seas, BONAPARTE will ever be jealous of our intercourse with the Continent, whence he has determined entirely to exclude our manufactures. Yesterday the PRINCE RF.GEVT held a Council, at which Lord Viscount- gIDMOUTH was sworn in Secre tary of State for the Home Department. rice Mr. RYDER, who has resigned ; and Earl If tanowav, Lori! President of the Council, vice Lord 4iostouTti ; Earl BATHURST,' Secretary of State for the War and Colonial Department ; and the Hight Honourable Nicu. VANSITTART, Chancellor of the Echequer. , Lord CASTLEREAGH and Lord MLLVILLE continue in the same offices they have for some time past filled'; as does also Lord ELDON.' _ _ The Hon. Captain BLLOIT was hronght eft in the Court of King's Bench yesterday morning, on a re cognizance entered into seven years ago, to keep the peice towards Lord DARNLEY, and committed to the King's Bench Prison, for violating this recognizance by his late conduct in threatening Lord DARNLEY, and going about with loaded pistols.—He will be brought up on Monday. T 4 1 ,1- .:L 4 TE I,igagcl4T-10NS. No. I.—Minute of a eommanication made by Lord %WELLESLEY to Lords GREY and GRENVILLE, at Lord Gnat's House, dated May 1814. Lord' Wellesley stated, that he had received the commands Of his Royal Highness the Prince Regent, to lay before his Royal Hiso,hness the plan of such an Administration as he (Lord Wel ' jesley) might deem adapted to the present crisis of affairs. That lie had apprised his Royal Highness of the necessity of ascer. taming the views and dispositions of all parties with regard to certain general principles, previously to the formation of any such plan. That be considered himself merely as the, instrument of executing his Royal Highness's commands on this occasion; and that be neither claimed, nor desired for himself, any station In the Administration which it was in his Royal ilig ness's con. •templation to form. Under these circumstances, he requested to know, whether any obstacle existed to the concurrence of Lords Grey and Grenville, or ttecir friends, in the following general •principles, as the basis upon which an Administration might be formed t— ••• First, That the state of the laws affecting the Roman Catho lics, and the claims of that body of his Majesty's subjects, should be taken into immediate Consideration, with a view to a conciliatory adjustment of those claims; Secondly, That the war in the Peninsula should be prosecuted on a scale of adequate vigour, • Lord Wellesley stated, that as Mr: Canning and he agreed in these principles, he had requested Mr. Canning to communicate them to Lord Liverpool. Lord Wellesley has reduced the substance of this eammonica don to writing, and any , submits it to Lord Grey and Lord Gren ville. • (:gpsd) . . . • - • .; ;:~.;.. ' '• • - su No, 2,—Minute of Mr. Csmilais:;shiPs comaand roposion s : m a riot, dated May 23, 1812. Lord Invcß. leaky to tPoriformiveaßegpleanntofhavainsiAdministration, to he submitted for his Royal Highness's approbation, Mr. Canning was requested by Lord Wellesley (as the channel of communication thought likely to be most agreeable to Lord Liverpool) to enquire of Lord Liverpool, whether there would he a disposition on Me part of Lord Liverpool, and of his Colleagues, or of any of them, to entertain any proposal which should be made to them for forming part of that Administration. The principles u en which the Administration was Intended to be formed were stated to be, Ist, the taking into the early and serious consideration of the Executive Goverment the state of the laws cam* the R ornap Catholics, with a sincere and earnest desire to bring that inv. portant question to a final and satisfactory settlement ; _ld ly, The prosecution of the war in the Peninsula with the best means of the country. It was stated, that there would be the strongest wish to comprehend in the arrangement, without any individusi or party exeu ion whatever, as many as possittle of such peein g , as might be able to agree in giving their public services to th e country on these two principles. With respect to the distribs. lion of offices, it was stated, that nothing of any sort was decided or stipulated ; but that every thing would be open to bearranged to the honour and satisfaction of all putts. I N o . 3,_-..nlecnorandum from Lords Garr and G RFAVILLF, dated I D pith momen ti t e as to t t h ni M e a p l L: 24 d n ' o t, n B in v l r e le . tfecelf iet,trorybepethresodr:at:oltif. all public men, both by frank mod co nc iliatory explanatious of principle, and by /jection, to facilitate,as far as may be in their power, the mean of giving erect to the late vote of the House of Com mons, and :f avertiog the imminent and unparalleled dangers of the country. Lord Wellesley has selected two, among the many important subjects which must engage the arentioa of any men, who could, in such circumstances, be called up in to consider of the acceptauce of stations of public trust. On those two p tints our espinnat iota shall be as distinct as it is in our po wer to make It. On the first, indeed, our opinian is too well known, and has bees too recently exprvsatal, to need repetition. We base de rived a very high gratification from Lord Wellesley's powerful exertions in support of the claims of the Roman Catholics; as well as , from the manner io which that subject is adverted to in his minute; and we do not hesitate to swore him, that we will warmly support any proposal made by any Ministers, fur the 'immediate consideration of those claims with a view to their conciliatory adjustment; a measure, without which we have al ready declared, that we can entertain no hope, in any ease, of rendering our own Services useful. As to tie second po'vr, go person feels more strongly than we do the advantages which would result from a successful termination of the present contest in Spain. But we are of opinion, that the direction of military operatious in an extensive war, and the snore ir less vigorous prosecutiou of those operations, are questions not of principle bid of policy; to be regulated by circumstances in their nature temporary and fluctuating, and in many cases known only to persons in official stations,—by the engagements of the county, the prospects of ultimate success, the extent of tbe exertions oe ermay for its attainment, and the means of supporting these ef. (hits without too great a pressure on the finane.s and internal prosperity of the country. On such questions, therefore;ao pub. lie wen, is hether in or out of office, can undertake for more titan a deliberate and dispassionate consideration, according to al , dreumstatices of the case as it may appear, amid to much nteas of information as may then be within their reach. Rut see cam. not in sincerity conceal from Lord Wellesley, that, in the pew sent state of she finances, we entertain the strongest doubts of the practicability of an increase in any branch of the public capes. diture. No. I.—Letter from Lord LITTAPOOL to Mr. Gotramea, dated fife-house, Way 22d, 181 t. 1111 DEAR CA11?0,40, I have communicated to my - Colleagues the memoranda's which 1 received tram you this alerosson. They do not think it necessary' to enter into any dita sioss of the principles stateu is that meiaorandum browse they all feel themselves Woad, par ticularly after what has rcceutly passed, to decline the propose; of becoming Members of an Admio - stratiou to be fumed 07 Lord Wellesley. _ Beliet w e me to be, with sincere personal regard, . Aijr dear Canning, very &Raub:, your's, (Sighed) L,IV EKPOOL, No. 6.—Letter from Mr, Comma to Lord Isrtimnsoot, Cited - Gloucester Lodge, May 24,..18W, j ast if .1. as s MT DEAR LIVgRPOOL, I received your letter of lag night, which I will immediately transmit to Lord Wellesley. Before I 'do so, however, and 4 course, tberefwe, witaout Lord Wellesley's • consent or privity, 1 cannot forheAt sugg.'sting to yin' to consider, whether the of p•rsono. objection which your letter evidently and exelasisely Implies, will stand fairly before toe country, at such.' ntoineut., as a justification for refusing to act is an Administr.liion. to the public principles of wit ch you do not feel, or at least do m t state, any in,urinountable repugnance. I wunld :tows. to yin further to consider, whether, resting your refusal on an o . jec- lion merely per.unal, pin do gni e justly either by yourselves or by the individual concerned, in leaving the precise nature af that objection wholly unexplained. In offering these sugges tions, I perhaps exceed the limits of 4 correspondence such as oar's is, upon this occasion: but they strike me so ftircibly, that I think I owe It to you, not to withhold them, Yibether to communicate them to your col e toes oecot, 1 leave entirely to your discretion ; but you at least will not resent, so fares you are yourself 'concerned, a freedom which may be s kuitified by that regard n ith which 1 am, ever, &e, (Signed) GEORGL CANNING. - - No, 7.—Letter ftom Lord Ltvaaroor. to Mr. C.trottso, dated Fifc-house, Mai• 24,. 1812. bIY DEAR C4NNING, I have.this moment received your answer to my letter of 114 night. As that letter was out written without all due consider. atiou, I do not fed that it can bq ne•essary for me to call fay colleagues again together upon the subject of it. I can answer, however, for myself (and I ant confident equally for them), Ott latuattpt.actuated, In declining the,proksosal made taus. by any objection ani natare perdu perineal. But when I advert '0 the opinions and t•tateinents recently Fent forth to tile world re specting public men with whom I have been connected, and public measured in which I have beet) engaged, I do nst f that I should bayeaczed consistently with my own honour sod eharac!er, or with the respect whiit I must ever owe, and shall ever feet, to my departed friend, it', under slid' circittostattens cou:d have conented to have entertained the prodosal which you s?ere authorised to submit to me. As these eon diderations atitorded an insuperable obstacle to my becomin g a party to the proposed arrangements, thought it whisilv tiniseceasarr la en' ter into any . esplanation on the twq pririri . e les on which .h• Administration is stated as intended to be, formed, or on .ithtr points of the greatest public importance; and I mus s t t rotesi a ga inst any inference whatever being drawn from mat trot et is this t. Can as.ure you that lam most willing Ili retida you evhry degree of justice fur the motives which have dictated yopr answer to my letter. And I remain with sincere regard, its. (Signed) LI VERPOOL, I• [To bercerbeled go-morrow.) CORN EXCHANGE, JUNE 12. To-dny the fresh arrivals of Whcstare inconsiderable, and 111 44 trade fully maintains last prices. Barley at the late increase is price. Malt also. %%hite Peas at little variation. tirrY ; 4 Beans keep their.price. 0:13s nearly at Wcdaesday's curresty• Sales of Flour at this week's advance. Wheat ..... ... Vie 118 s 1381 i Tick dn. (new) .. 69 75 Flaw ditto l4O 31i Dn. (Fine OW) • • .-- "c• Rye . , 7r4 144 , Oats ... • ....... .. 45 50 ~ Barley ... , ... . • Malt St 91 ; Patatne do.. ....... 59 1" VI bite Peas (bo:lers) RO 146 Rape Reed ...... Zlt S' ( i si e re ans .............,,,...........,,21........)7 8............................................ec t ly do. 19 Ib N HON; Priried aid Puliii;netrky . 11.1d;:10,.it: it. '" e S•kA i u‘llAis OirlcE, 61; niVIALIIINIL • • ! • -: ' • _ _A . 14L-4 1‘ , , __ ..~:: • ,~ ~, ';‘• 1 .11 , : t 11, I ,