The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-05-02 00:00:00

~~ ~ ,i~ ~~~ ~ ~1 r , -....1,., 1 ~.r t. I P • I' 111 . 1 , ~ I .. i CI iii i l . I it ' 1 1, lo . !11,1 I 3 ,%,li , , i , ,* 'I I .. ,I', IMPERIAL, PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MA• I. The Idols Appeal Cride, " (111fard r. Hort. bring ta ken into Maul consideration, their Lordships came to a licsoiu- Hoo t as their judgment upon the cant, on the motion of Lord REDESD.ALt. tending partly to reverse the Decree of the Irish Exchequer; and partly to remit it, with directions for al tartar proceeding on the part of that-Court. Their Lordships then adjourned for some time, during plea sures and at about five o 'clock the House resumed. The Ba' upon the table were forwarded in their respective stages. Among these, the Irish Public Accounts Audit, and the Irish Military Accounts Audit Bills, were read a third time and parsed. Mr. tudtinenn brought up a Menage from the Commons, requesting a copy , of the 4th report of their Lordships' Com mittee upon the Antes of the East India Company. The Irish Partnership Regulation Bill was brought up by the same Gentlem a n and reads first time. Several private nadlocal Bills were presented by Lord Templetown, Mr. Donde., Mr. Renrick. mud other Members. The Place and Pension Duty Bill passed through a Com mittee of the whole House, and gives reported without amend ment. It was ordered, on the motion of the Earl of LAUDERDALE, that there be laid before the House an Account of the number of Notes Ward by the Bank of England, from its first establish ment, in 1694, to the year 1797, distinguishing the Amount of each month, &c. CHARGE MADE BY THE AMERICAN GOVERN- M ENT. Lord HOLLAND, pursuant to what he stated on a former evening, called the attention of their Lord ships again to this subject. He said, he confessed it was witit some surprise, and still more regret, that he learned it was the intention of Ministers to resist his proposed motion for what he deemed indispensi kly necessary information for the satisfaction of the House and the country. There were documents con nected with the transaction alluded to, the authenti city of which the Noble Lord did not seem to con tradict. He thought it best to leave explanation, in the first instance, to Ministers themselves. The o ble Secretary' did not state it was his intention to bring forward any papers on the occasion. Whets he first notified his intention to move for these docu ments, he entertained a firm conviction, that the Noble Secretary was not inclined to resist such a procedure. As another important topic was about to come under their Lordships' consideration this evening, he should not now press his intended motion, but he should bring it forward on Tuesday next ; and would move that the Lords be summoned on the occasion. ; —What he proposed then to move for was, copies of all communications made by Sir James Craig, to his Majesty's 'Secretary of State, respecting the em ployment of Mr. Henry en a secret Mission to the United States of America. Also for a copy of the ; correspondence with Gen. Prevost on the subject of the compensation claimed by Capt. Henry ; and also for a copy of the instructions sent by the Secretary of State to Sir James Craig, respecting the employ- rnent of a person to procure information respecting the United States of America. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that whenever the Noble Baron should bring forward his motion, he should be perfectly ready to state the grounds on which he deemed it his duty to oppose the production of those documents, and to state such circumstances of the transaction as to induce him to form such a conclusion. lie was ready to meet the Noble Baron on the subject on any day ; to that specified he had no objection, as there was no intention of opposing the intended motion of referring the Petitions of the Manufacturers to a Committee of the whole House. ORDERS IN COUNCIL, The Earl of LAUDERDALE, in reference to what the Noble Secretary of State bad just intima ted, said it would be desirable to know when it was mw•ant the House should go into the Committee, what time would be set aside for those proceedings ? Many of the petitioners came from different parts of the country; they must be prepared against the time. They had other businesses to attend to, and it would highly inconvenience them to experience unnecessary delays. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that with regard to the course of proceeding, every proper attention should he paid to the personal accommodation of the individuals alluded to. The e►►quiry should go on as long as their Lordsuips should think proper, and he thought a set number of days should be given up for the purpose. He had no objection to commencing the enquiry on an early day, and that Thursday next would not be an improper time for the commence ment. IRISH DISTILLERIES, &c. The Earl of DARNLEY, in adverting to the Bill financial evil that had ever befallen the country. As for preventing Distillation from Grain, then before to the secprity against exceskive issues by the Bank, their Lordships' House, and repeating his regret the which the pursuit of their own interest afforded, it measure was not earlier recurred to, pointedly ob- did not appear to him in atry way satisfactory, for served, that on the dey it was known to be the deter- though the Bank would naturally , enough abstain urination of Government, the price of oats fell from such an excessive issue as must injure its credit, from 365. to 2,85. per barrel in the Dublin market. there were many degrees before it came to that ex- A conversation of considerable length ensued, in I tremity. By the present Bill, an alteration was which the Earls of Limerick, Darnley, and Lauder- made in the relation between the Bank of England dale, were the principal speakers. The first-men- and the country, which rendered some additional tioned Peer referred to some detailed accounts in his regulations necessary, and their Lordships should hand, in support of his positions on a former evening, consider that the prerogative of tke Crown, to stamp viz. that no appearance whatever of scarcity existed, the value on the current coin, was placed in the at least in certain parts of Ireland, Limerick in par- hands of the Bank of England, by the' measure to titular, where such a degree of plenty prevailed, as e which he alluded. He allowed that an immediate to admit of considerable exportations of corn from return to the old established rule would not be ad that port ; not only large exportations to Scotland visable, but the present motion he thought necessary especially, and to other parts of Ireland, but to for the purposes of regulation and controul. Gibraltar and other places. Lord SIDMOUTH maintained, that whatever the The Earl of DARNLEY contended, that what I present relatibn between the Bank of England and was advanced by the Noble Earl, proving an abun- • • the Public was, it was precisely the same as had ex dant harvest, in a particular quarter, did not go to isted from the passing of the Restriction Act in 1797. invalidate what he had alleged respecting general , He denied that Bank notes were made a legallender scarcity andhigh prices. i by the Bill, which only provided that they should The Earl of LAUDERDALE argued that expecte prevent any person being arrested. And, as to the tation was not a proof of great abundance ; the ge- , alleged depreciation, he contended that 'neither Ate neral state of the prices was the true index of sLareity ; existence of double prices, Hor the augmentation of or plenty the price of commodities, was any proof of it. After The Earl of LIMERICK, i n the course of a short some observations in defence of the Bank. of Eng explanation, observed, that his'cOuntrymen had not lend, as a Corporation, and the propriety with the same passion for oats as those of the Noble which it had uniformly conducted itself,. the Noble Earl. . Lord concluded with expres6ing his 'dissent from the ' Lord HOLLAND, after sh or tly referring to the motion,' as nothing could'be expected from the com above subject of conversation; enquired if it was not mince, according to the Noble Marquis's (Marquis the intention of the Noble Lord opposite to• lay of Lansdowne) own admission, who had acknow some information before the House relative to the tedge4 that it would be daageeeus to revert to the old 'tate of the Bank of Ireland, now they had thought systeas.- • _ proper to include that country in the Bill whiclf stood Lord ROSSLYN spoke at some length in favour for discussion that evening? • of the motion. • Earl BATHURST reminded the Noble Baron, 'Lord LAUDERDALE made a general reply. that the various papers before the House were laid en After which the motion was negatived without a the table solely at the instance of the Noble Lord division. (Lord H.) at his side of the House. s ; The- House tten'vrent into a Committee on the The Earl Of LAUDERDALE wais of opiuion,that Gold Coin Bill, la•which as Ministers -*taught proper to extend the Bill to Lord LAUDERDALE 'proposed sew Amend ,. , S TiIt',.STATESMAN. Ireland, the onus probandi,nb to expedieney s l4 vilth them. The Earl of LIVERPOOf 4 adverted to the no. ressity of the Bill being speedily enacted. lie had fin objection to the production of information, pro vided it .ire not caned 'for in ontor to, delay the nil asu re. • After a few words from Lord King,and the Nohlo Secretary, in explanation, certain accounts respect ing the issues, number, and amount of notes of the Bank of Ire!aud, were ordered to be laid before the House. some conversation then took place, principally be tween the Earls of Lauderdale and Rosse, in which the subject of the Irish Tobacco Duties Bill was re ferred to; when Earl GREY begged leave to remind their Lord ships there was no question respecting the Irish To bacco Bill before the House. BANK OF ENOLAND. ' ' The Earl of LAUDERDALE, pursuant to no tice, rose to submit, he said, one of the most import ant topics to their Lordships' consideration that ever engaged the attention of the British Legislature. It referred in no small degree to a Rill then before their Lordships, which he deemed of such importance, that the great question respecting the East India Companx, was in his mind trifling, when compared to it. His Lordship, then, in a speech of considerable adverted to the prominent parts of the history .s Bank of England from its first establishment ; its va rious transactions, and occasional connection, parti cularly of late years, with Government. To its im mense paper issues were, he said, to be attributed, many of the internal evils experienced by the coun try ; from which, and the encouragement thereby afforded to the establishment and issue of paper by country Banks; the exorbitant prices of provisions in various parts of the country proceeded. The po-1 licy of Government with respect to that great com pensation, was. suck as held out no prospect of its ever resuming cash payments. He deprecated the various political and domestic evils which he argued must arise from an extensive paper currency, which the Bill alluded to would go to confirm and extend by making Bank notes a legal tender. The Noble Lord described the motion with which he meant to conclude, was for a Committee of the whole House to enquire into the present state of the metallic and paper currency throughout the kingdom, and into such changes as have taken place in the nature of the transaction of the Bank of England since the year 1797, and into the various prices of commodities s with a view to awertain whether there existed a pried in coin, and a price in paper, and whether the prices of commodities were not advanced in consequence? He repeated that these important considerations cal led for the most- serious attention of their Lordships. The distresses of the country were great, and its ge neral prospect alarming; and they were called upon by every sense of feeling and of duty, to enquire in to the subject, with a view to ascertain the causes of such extensive evils, and with the view of endeavour ing to remove them. His Lordship concluded by moving for a Committee as above. Earl BATHURST observed, the greater part, if not the whole of the ground on which the _Noble Earl proceeded, was an assumption that there was not sufficient information to enable theta to judge of the Bill now pending before the House, to which he had made such ample reference. Their Lordships would recollect the vast number of documents al ready before them, on the motions of the Noble Earl himself, who, instead of moving for paper after paper,might have ere now come forward in this general wrong, and taken the sense of the House upon the proposition. To his mind, it did not appear the Noble Earl had laid any ground whatever for the en quiry, and he must observe his arguments, instead of applying against the particular measure aimed at, were applicable in any manner to a question of the continuance of the restrictions on the Bank. The proper course he thought would have been to move for a committee in the first instance ' • but he could not conceive that the Noble Lord had made out any case for the present motion. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE supported the motion of his Noble Friend, on the ground that some limit should be fixed to the operation of a mea sure, which he did not hesitate to call the greatest asento t arid& wore rejected. The Bill was ordered to he.reported without any amendments, and the Ilouse adjourned to Monday next. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A new Writ was ordered for the Borough Langston, in the room of the Hon. Captain Bennett, who, since his election, had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. 'Mr. EIRE presented a Petition from Nottingham, complain ing of the evils which they suffered from the practices of evil disposed persons, directed against the stocking-frames, &c. and praying relief. Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. WILBERFORCE presented a Petition from the Ship wrighft, of Bridlington, against the encouragement given to building Ships in the East - Indies. Ordered to lie on the table. On the motion of Sir G. HILL, an Account was ordered to be laid before the House of the quantity of Irish and Foreign Linens retained for home consumption for the three years ending sth Jannary, 1812. On the motion of Sir HOME POPHAM, the Papers present ed on the 2lss nit, relative to Captain King's Claim, were or dered to be printed. Mr. J. SMITH presented a Petition from Nottiqgham, against certain fraudulent practices, in the stocking manufacture. Or dered to lie on the table. The Message of the Lords respecting the Fourth Report of the East India Affairs, was taken into further consideration, and a printed Copy of the Report was ordered to besent to their Lord ships. Mr. MARTIN briniest in a Bill to regulate the Offices of De puty Romembrancer of the Court of Exchequer. Head a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday, and to be printed. On the motion of Mr. WHARTON, it was ordered, That at its rising, the House should adjourn to Monday. The Excise Superannuation Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be eoesmisted t oo Monday: The General r Bill was read a second time, and or dered to he committed, oi this day three weeks. Oa the motion of Me: CALCRAFT, there was ordered to be laid before the House an Account of the umber of Recruits raised monthly, from the 24th December, 1811, to the 21th April, 1812, by ordinary Recruiting, exclusive of the Foreign and Colonial Corps. • On the motion of Mr. W. POLE, Copies of the 13th and 11th Reports of the Board of Education in Ireland, were ordered to be laid before the House. A person from the Office of the Chief Secretary for Ireland, immediately presented the above, which were ordered to lie on the table. Mr. W. POLE gave notice that he would move the Miwg. laneous Services for Ireland, in the Committee of Supply, on Monday.' Mr. WHARTON brought up the Report of the Committee on the Copper Duties. Agreed to, and a Bill ordered accord infille Bill for better manning ships employed in the Southern Whale Fishery, was read a second time, and ordered to be com mitted on Monday. RIOTING. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice, that on Monday be would move for I leave to bring in a•13ill to extend the provisions of the Riot Act (which at present were confined to dwell- ing-houses) to mills, manufactories, &c. Recent occurrences rendered this a very important considera- ' tion. [Hear, hear I The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought in the Bill for the further prevention of the conterfeiting of Bank Tokens. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. The Report of the Embezzlement 13111 was taken into further consideration and agreed Lo, and the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Thurs. day. A Message from the Lords announced their Lord. ships' assent to the Irish Auditors' Bill- The reference of Mr. Compton's Petition to the Committee of Supply, was postponed to Monday next. In consequence of Friday being a day on which, by the regulation of the House, Orders of the Day preceded Notices of Motions, a conversation took place between Mr. Whitbread and the Chan cellor of the Exchequer, in the course of which Mr. Whitbread intimated, that if the expect ed debate on the Report of the Barrack Estimates did not last until a late hour, he would submit to the House his motion for the production of the Do cuments on which the Americans founded their charge against the British Government ; but that, should that debate be protracted to any length, he trusted that an arrangement would be made, by which a subject so grave, important, and pressing, might be brought under the consideration of Parlia ment etas early a period as possible. BARRACKS. On the motion that the Report of the Committee of Supply, comprehending the Resolutions relative to the Barrack Estimates, be now taken into further consideration, Mr. FREEMANTLE rose, and re-stated at con. siderable length his former observations on the sub ject. He expatiated on the great amount of the va rious estimates for the Barracks at Liverpool, Bris tol, Mary-le-bonne Park, &c. and commented on what he termed the indecorum of oppressing the peo pie at such a moment of distress as the present, with additional burdens, for purposes which might ulti mately prove fatal to the liberty of the subject. He stated 98,000,0001. to have been raised in the last " year. This sum exceeded by 5,000,0001. what had been raked in the preceding year, and by 55,000,0001. what had been called for on the commencement of the war in 1793. This sum, immense as it was, he had however to state, was insufficient to cover our expellees, and under such circumstances, he called upon the House to resist tbe•extravagant grant which ; they were called upon t¢ vete, And trusted he should not call in vain. lie concluded by moving as an amendment, " That the Report should be brought up on that day six Months." Some conversation here took place as to the effect of the'amendment on that part of the report which was not objected to. The result was, Mr. Free mantle withdrew the amendment he had moved ; and at the suggestion of Mr. Bankes, it was moved as an amendment, to deduct from the original grant the sum of 90,0001. by substituting the sum 431,0001. for 524,0001. the sum which they were first called to vote. Gen. TABI,,ETON objected to that part of the plan,' which went to make Liierpool the military point of communication between Great Britain and /rebind,' and pitiying for his constituents (who had no objection to the erection of barracks in or near biverpoolY that, at all 'events, they might not be erected on the particular spot at Eserton, which had been markettout: Mr. C Mt 111 strongly recommended every Pos sible sav►ng of the puhlic•money, at the present mo mentous crisis, and objected to the proposed bar racks at Bristol and Liverpool, but above all, to those' in Mary-le-hone Park. Mr.'B. BATIIURST spoke in favour of the rote, and in particular Contended, speaking of the bar racks at Bristol,. that a place where they were more necessary could hardly be named, as well to relieve the innkeepers and towu's people, as with a view to the benefit of the service. Lifsteprtphoe(.t. toeoaan:ihl,d.,l Gen. GASCOIGNE did not o gether, but wished some means to p b l e derived erecting the proposed barracks at site to %c hide so many objections had be.weonfunitdadset.iwilehere Mr. WR.OTTESLEY observed, if be en peace to be made to-morrow, the countr o y e saddled with the permanent ex mitlitieey to m iieeltnotk:ellifflaPeerrrrasfcrfkoorms. Could no compensation be instead r ' o . f this p soldierst he being q inconvenien c e uarte quartered o on them, 1 manent expellee ? if quartering the soldwiearss Bristol; .1 would be too far from the French prisoners i n th a t neighbourhood, why, he would ask, seaport, selected for a depot for French prisoners ' ? The enormous sum demanded f or M ar y -l e- b one Park f a l ready was altopether unnecessary. There we r e Barracks m a a t rc it h yd o e f lia no rk od a o n o d . Hounslow, with. . in lr three hours Wereo po c the Bar. racks intended to ornament Mary-le-bon There was no reason why the public money shou l d be squandered away imp in ru ip t i l io e t u arh t r l y. y a f li o tto r gs t eee h t e hm pi;r fri ::i t u hte ! oe f hoernuaimsiemndtittiogsetphoismoter the e at I people. Why else were there so many Harrods le so re i c id ted ho , rs a t n e d sto th h e lis ilhl e i d li , ta when rMilitary C o th l l e eg b ell oy of who M a e r t l i o ter ' 12 or 13 years of age never could have a common 1 • feeling with the other inhabi gn i w nt ie s fra o t f om t o h wr e eh c ae o tli n gf n eibi t i r le y froonme beoW ' otp ll moi A ing ß thet T dy o oeu N tthe. ob eih s n e a r oa ved, that the sit ei va tno ti r on th at.otuilaste. c ll Lio t u r vM . eldrrp. Wrottesley , he would say, that it was impossible stwouirnth oa asked quarter ed the or Barracks . mtr o a o r y p . s 1 eH o . f eb t n h wn e oe c s Bo ready to .ktnsooliwadoasms form erly, I [Hear! from the Opposition.]---But such was the present state of prices, it would be found impossible. to build Barracks of the same dimensions for less.— Hyde Park was upon a more extravagant plan. No doubt there were Barracks within a certain distance rof London ; but what would become of the troops it they happened to be called to London? Mary-le-bone Barracks were intended as a depot.--Ulear ! from the Opposition.]—Wheu Hyde Park Barracks were built timber was 31.—1 t was now 131.—Mr. John Nash, who had observed that the expence of Mary, le-bone Barracks might be reduced one-third, was possessed of a fine fancy and exquisite taste for laying out grounds, but in what he had proposed for these Barracks, he seemed to have a very inadequate ides, of what conveniences a soldier ought to have. Mr. BANKES woulpot consent to vote a single, pound that could anywise be saved. If the country was to be burdened with heavy sums, let them be ap. plied in carrying on the war in the Peninsula. The sums now demanded, however, would not make our I forces anywise more available in the Peninsula. If the timber wag now so high at present, why choose such a time to build Barracks in, when the increased I price arose from particular circumstances which could not be permanent? 1 Gen. PHIPPS having heard it observed that the ! Officers did not need to be accommodated in the Bar- I racks, thought that Officers ought always to be Ilodged along with the men, otherwise they might easily be intercepted, on any ernergecy, in going separately to their homes. I Sir JOHN NEWPORT wished to ail; the Hon. General whether the Officers of the Foot Guards I I were quartered along with the men and whether he had ever heard of any inconvenience having resulted from their not being so quartered ? Gen. PHIPPS had to answer the. Right Hon. Baronet, that it would be much better if they were. Mr. CREEVEY observed, that by an Act of the 50th of the King, the Surveyor of the Crown Lands was instructed to give in a Report of what was their state every three years, within thirty days after the Session of Parliament. Mr. Fordyce gave in the last Report, in 1809, in which he stated the advert. Itage that would result to the public from parcelling out the 540 acres in Mary-le-bone Park, eat of lease, ' for building. Lord Glenbervie was now the Surveyor ; i but he had not as yet thought fit to comply with the Act of Parliament.. It appeared that Lord Glenbere vie was empowered by Act of Parliament to contract `with Lord Glenbervie, for he was himself a consi iderable proprietor of the Regent's Canal. He‘read 1 to the House a card from Lord Glenbervie, inviting ! every Member to vote for this Act; and he had in his hand an advertisement from him, in which he in.• vited persons to join with him in his undertakiug, !holding out to them a profit of eleven per cent. side was probably too much occupied with the Regent's Canal to be able to make his Report. [A laugh.] Colonel WOOD at considerable length opposed the Amendment, contending that the barracks at Mary-le-bone, Bristol, and Liverpool, were tweet sary, and justifying their erection on various grouuds, seriatim. Mr. W. WYNNE contended, that these barracks at all timea objectionable, were .now p e culiarly sot on account of the immensely increased expeuces of building. Colonel BASTARD said a few words or. the same side. Sir F. BURDETT said, that he felt it less neces sary to address the House, from the coneiction he felt of the truth of the assertion of the Secretary of the Treasury, that he should be able to persuade the majority of the House that the vote should be ac ceded to. On this subject, however, involving a question of the highest constitutional importance, he could not consent to give a silent vote. On former occasions, in addressing the Houte upon this subject, he had been accused of disaffection, because he had asserted that the Government was attempting to make use of that army e hich was paid by the peoelo for the subjugation of the people.—[hear, hear!]` The truth of this statement the vote now proposed made evident, and some of its supporters even went so far as to urge the necessity of concurring ill i t t h , 4 : x o lest pu t i h a e ce so w ld h i o e m rs t s h h e o y nld we intercep ted hseoa. Alinisters].-lle had no doubt his remarks were not their way to their horses.—[he ar! very welcome to the other side of the House, whose business it was, with inconsistent prodigality, to throw away the public money with one hand, white they were grinding the nation with taxation with the other.—[llear ! hear !]—At a time when discontents tl i ue f , ro b olt convulsed the country—when Ministers felt their . weakness, and required support other th an that of the people, was indeed the fit period for establishing a military system for their protection, by the erec . I f ] t r ~4; i~ .14 V