The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-02-01 00:00:00

ft had been asserted that a spirit of discontent - was confined to some particular districts ; but this was pot the case; nor could it be said that the Catholics were at one time too zealous and at another too re miss. The experience of the last twelve years was a s ufficient argument of the erroneous measure that bad been adopted, and he thought an additional ass. gement was derived from the present conduct of Go. comment. It was not fair to charge the Catholics with forming a convention for general representation. Theirs was a convention for a particular object. No circumstance had occurred that could justify Govern 'met iu availing themselves of the Convention Act.— L o ok to the history of that Act. In 1792, the year before passing that Act, there was a Delegation to represent the Irish Catholic recognized both by the English and Irish Governments, and that same Government afterwards passed the Act in question. But it was expressly stated at the time, by the At tornettGeneral Wolfe, afterwards lerd Kilwarden, that is Act had no reference to the Catholics, but was intended to prevent delegation for a precon ceived purpose. It had not then been conceived an objection that the Catholics endeavoured to extend their numbers. He thought the Irish Government had been guilty of great impropriety in applying that Act to the Catholic Committee, in 1809. From Mae, 1809, to February, 1811, the Committee had sat unmolested. It had been said that repented acts of the Catholics had called for this measure; but the necessity was the same in 1809 as in 1811. The Catholics had been endeavouring to improve the construction of their Committee, in order to facilitate their application tp Parliament. That illegal assem bly had met in February, and March,and June, and the Government, that had declared it illegal, did not interfere. If the Act was to be carried into ex ecution, it ought to have been in a manner most con formable to law and equity. But the warrant had been signed by the First Justice of the King's Bench, who was to try the prisoners, though upon that Learned Judge he did not mean to throw the slightest imputation. For the impropriety of this proceeding, l be had the authority of the Chief Secretary of the i Irish Government himself, who, in a Speech pub halted and circulated under his sanction, in which he endeavoured to vindicate his conduct, stated, that he had consulted the Lord Chancellor (Manners) and the Attorney-General, but not the Chief Justice, because be must necessarily preside at the trial of the pisoners. Nevertheless, the Chief Secretary after wards obtained a warrant from the Chief Justice, who, in so doing, might be said to prejudge the cause.— The words of the warrant were, "for the purpose, and under the pretence," which words were not in the Convention Act. (Hear! Ilear!) This atone was sufficient to call for that inquiry that had been moved for by the Noble Earl. It was not his inten tion to inquire into the right of a peremptory chal lenge of Jurors, how far it might be legal or not ; but the instance in which it had been exercised was the last in which it was justifiable. No less than twenty-three persons had been peremptorily chal lenged at a late Erie'. in Dublin. The Catholics had been worse treated even than aliens, who had a right to be tried by a Jury, one half of whom was composed of their countrymen. He had reason to believe that Lord dial not receive any intima tion of the intention of Government till the day of issuing the Proclamation. The state of Ireland, and the conduct of Government on the trial of Dr. Sheri dan, were things that loudly called for the attention of ;hat House. He could not agree with a Noble Viscount (Sidmouth) that there was not a strong in-1 clination in this country in favour of the Catholic claims. For the last ten years the Catholics had i been tried by their Protestant countrymen, and, would obtain a most triumphal acquittal. Placed onj the very field of action, and viewing narrowly the conduct of the Catholics, the Protestants had mani fested the strongest wishes in favour of the claims of their Catholic brethren. The Irish Protestants were throwing off the prejudices of youth and education; nor would the 'English Protesthnts, from the recole lectimi of pa!t crimes, not to be named but with detestation, be unmindful of the purest virtues. These crimes could never be repeated. What might the Catholics say ? Your laws are not calculated to ] exclude Atheists or Bigots, but they are calulated to exclude an honest and conscientious race of men, ho are too honourable to abandon the religion of their fathers frees any motive of interest or policy. There existed a principle of discontent that called loudly upon their Lordships to arrest' its progress, which would be the mete difficult to effect, the loos Syr it was delayed. The Noble Lord concluded a very able speech by giving his assent to the Motion. The Earl of Ch.II.YSFORT was of opinion, that, the true principles of the Constitution had been de. parted from in refesingthOCatholic claims. Thougk rally particular haidships s had been removed, still the effect of the system remained. All classes of sub ms ought to feel that they had a common interest ri the welfare of 5e state, awl the preservalien of the Constitution. • WaS that the case - in Ire ? The great ohjtict should be to reconcile to Government the ItopVistion of Ireland, by removing tSc remaining restrictions. There was a numerical deduction of four nailllons-from the subjects of the King. The Callsotic Committee fell neither within the letter nor spirit of the Convention Act, and, in applying it in that manner, the Government had acted rashly. The Noble Fort here quoted the senti ments of. Lord Clarendon, respecting the conduct of sky J u d ges • in the time of Charles the First, and ob ° 'mid, that a similar line of conduct seemed to have l''en adopted in Ireland, though the evil conse quences of such conduct had been so forcibly pointed eye by the Nuble historian. . 1./ H' E'er! of WEATMORLAND could not dis fever that what hid been said by Noble Lords on the other sMe, had any tendency to conciliation—much, be fere:gilt, had been said to cause irritation: The riovertament of Ireland was imperiously called upon by its public duty to put down the attempted assem bling ef a Convention of Delegates. it had been at all times the nhjeat of those who wished to separate ' Ireland from England,to have an organ which should represent, or pretend to represent the sentiments of the People. It aas to put down this disposition to form Conventions of Delegates, that the Convention -"t't was passed, and the fair interpretation of the o-f..t either applied to the Catholic Convention re reatly attempted to,be assembled at Dublin,* or the Act itself was highly absurd. It was said, however, • 1 THE STATESMAN, that it was not a pretence, but that the real object collected from it, own provisions, and not be made to Involve a meat, not v e n g e ance -th e y s h oo id never i n t er f ere With iodic reople in rebellion and treason by sew constructions. No con- (crew actions; but, in this case, if a el a eiet rate was te take was to petition Parliament. But either the Con- tructitm, however, could he pot upon the law as would in- his h own antoapatious of otrence for pet, what was that evil vowtiow Act was nugatory and absurd , or else the yoke the Catholics in disobedieace. He was uo advocate for arguingw mit a principte of this kind might nut engender? It wee bodies of people assembling, Magistrate must have power to act in the first in- lar g e but he would prevent it its the words of, the law, and not by tee inventicea of new words. aseekst alt inetantione, from the abuses to whirls suet of f " e llir" - stance, when Delegates were attempted to be elect. He bad never thought, however, nor h a d he eve r k n own, that t hey were eisseraily liable-tie col ruptiou to which the pees, ed, for how was it to be known whether the oh- it was illegal for any man to delegate ethers for a legal purpose. was "hie would then become au argument for the &sieve ject assumed was a real object or only a pretence ? l o n 3 e , ca . ses d , ° fi f e t w h o n s u e l dL e the Noble w l e el rr o i on the Woolsack , i w l 71yo be the pi i iriple might, without treyi Parl e iam te rot ed io st i i t ll faitlicr, and lidt awe He could not conceive in what way the proposed then presided in that Court, Did he ever charge them as being both lionsee n q . i 7 e Catholic claims could tranquillize criminal, merely because they were delegated, or was it because .with a consoling confideuce, whe s a P h l eti l id ls. that I his e wa s s mi s t concession of the , they lase was delegation to cover a different purpose, which Ireland. Those Noble Lori who had enumerated English law; that such were not the principles u M which . i pap se lllegal ? ' English law imilt its • • • . " , oar impartial ibepcneatiou regulated. the causes of discontent in that Country, had omitted The Earl of DARNLEY advocated the cause of • hut quitting W" groliell hr had taken epos the some, to remedy which, would, lapis opinion, tend the Irish Catholics, and contended that Parliament ought to give, , fair, obvious, il a l l l l ll4l9ler ill , d direct construction of this art , be hesitated i at once, with a liberal hand, that redress which i in a much greater degree to tranquillize the country, .t would heel:Kn.' . not to say, thet no construction that could be pot upon it, pelted to afford in the end. The Irish were a brave, generous, than the ; proposed concession of the Catholic claims . 1 warm-hearted body of men, and if their gratitude wits called ' even by Minieters theuise!ves, coted resruc them from the They had omitted to mention. the oppression of the I forth, they would not disappoint the expectations of their fellow cheer.. of wanton and gross misconduct throughout the whole ' subjects. He concluded bv ivin his best sup on to " mom .of those pioceediup-whether the Catholics bad been ca. people through a double clergy, the oppression of , , rhEarl of Buc K r ,g PP the "` NG HAMSIIt it,E insisted that preciously testy, or _but justly indignant - w he ther their led tithes, and still more the great evil of absentee pro-' the constructio n been obstinate or firm-whether they had been wrong or right, bon put upon the Convention Act by the Judges was perty and absentee landlords. He was of opinion ; consistent with the design of its original framers; and after se- w ere questions that did nut at all affect the iniquestioilable that the residence of great men upon their estates, ' veral other remarks on this subject, he entered upon the subject fatuity of the Irish Government, It was a system of met a the Coronation Oath, which he maintained, for the wisest rca - conduct uniform nail consistent in all the great principles of tended more than any thing else to keep the rople sons , restrained the Crown fmnt acceding to the Catholic Ewan- erroi , and chegtfered with an altern ate made ession of fully and in good order, and in subjection to the laws. But as ciliation. He put it to the House, whether they would take ad- rashness-sitifieig from a timidity that dei t contemptible , to the proposed remedy for all the evils of Ireland, ! vantage of the continued indisposition of the Ring to du an act, to a desperatiou that made it dangerous. Of the fee famed which they knew, from the commencement , had met with his proclamation he should then say nothi ng . H e s h ou ld h a ve i t he thought that the frame-breakers of Nottingham Majesty's positive and uniform refusal. to the Noble and Learned Lord f upon the W I k He would be just as soon induced to put an end to their ; Earl GREY most ably supported the motion for pissed over its slovenly inf o rm a lity, but what a:t u mid be 6'. •y_ depredations by a great motion for reform in Parlia- I going Into the Committee. He said that he had set- u_ the attempt to act new, it, an d a r e d ign ified WET 44 meat, as the lower order of people in Ireland would dom before addressed their Lordships under feelings that attempt. How nit II he nttenipt to describe the irritable be benefited by the concessions which the Noble of greater embarrassment-not that there was . a.ay ; ova akitrie. w w i t t t h h w w il il i . C r il h itb li , :t d 4 been taken up, or the impotent Lords, on the other side, proposed to make to the thing in the subject before them peculiarly didieult, !at b ei r own coastruc i t km, and mali n e n u b s a e n o d ri e t d t . o c H rn e d w e n m u n ld i t h n e k i e r Catholics. His Lordship concluded, by expressing clouded or mysterious-not that he felt that thee own pracesination-ao person can 1w taken and committed to his decided dissent to the motion. were any considerations of peculiar delicacy or eau-; prison ou charges for any other offences than either treason, Lord motaA stated the ab j ect of going 'into a : tion, that might deter him from a full and f rank; felony, breach of t b h e e %ace, or those cases provided for by COmmittee was to discuss the state of Ireland; - tted dteedaslon of ttatnerits. And sure it was that his I came ant tiler * s t ay of e a t r h e es s e rr cfloarstshes i n (here this P r t n h r e 4m ;o t LI: 'any one of the circumstances that had been enume- embarrassment did not arise from the consciousness I Lord rend - 'the seemed section of the Att)- persons rated was sufficient to call upon their Lordships to iof having to contend with any formidable reasoning Is ° offending shall, when convicted-Win.t ? taken into adopt that measure. Who could look at the state of , against the motion ; for he had hitherto listened to d li a a no d u ii i i i . s . to e dg e lodged in prison t ?-No-shalt be guilty of A high that country and not say, that it would be the ex- catch one argument against it, and he had listened in constables, &c . - de . c. toeul y those p o e rs: ' treme of folly, madness itself, to shrink from the vain. His di ffi culty therefore lay in attempting to sons so offendiug.-He challenged the Noble and Learned an discussion? The Noble Lord who spoke last, had answer what did not admit of a reply, and to refute I the Woolsack to controvert bitu, when be said that the appre hension of such persons tinder this act was illegal-the Load confounded the natural and the civil rights of the by argument what defied all argument.-Their Lard- I 1 Chancellor and Attorney General of Ireland did tons appear 'lrish Catholics. Standing upon the birth-right of . ships would believe, therefore , that he did not • s at to have advised au illegal proceeding-and what did the Chief 1 Britons, they had advanced their claims with coati- ; that late hour, rise for the purpose of restating Justice (Downes)-he actually eummits yet eidas apprehended ' deuce: they have said, " feeling ourselves Britons, what had been already se forcibly put, and what by this proclimatioti-ei f e was aware that as the: person was we address you as Britons, and we ask you whether ; there had not been yet even an attempt to answei : likely to heroine the subject of some civil actions for those or not we are to stand upon an equality with you ?" a is f u r t es i t i s : l e t e: i ld I no t i ile h a e s te . . it was not easy to contend with those who left you ofi t •e h l i l o to hlo speak at t i t , he c tu hi a ef tt J er un t t e i n e d e erly l This is the sentiment which a man born in a land nothing to grapple with ; but he could net sleep been guilty of a breach of judici g th al decorum, of extrajudicial ; of freedom ought to feel-and this is the sentiment quietly upon his bed that night, if lie left that House interference, that did not become one who ought to have beets which they have avowed. They have always ad- ; after hearing what he had heard within its walls, f ro m se i n i sible of the necessity of keeping persnually aloof dressed us in the gesture of humility-L-they wish'. without making his solemn protest in the name which he s h u i s m p a ic , i i o t o wa i a n s tl oo rej o tio b l: o c f ali s e u d ch u de n li t c o acy lc a i od de , to receive as the boon of our generosity, what they I of the United kingdom, against tan impolicv, the -conduct of that kind was pregnant with P the worst have a right to demand as a justice at our hands.- folly, and the madness of that blind, selfish, and consequences, as it had a tetoleocy to shake the confidence He would exhort those who shut their minds and illiberal intolerance that had brought these countries ' t. i . tit h e . pn A h d lie,. in the impartiality, integrity, RUli purity hearts against the condition of Ireland, to consider into danger, and threatened them with nodistant ruin. ' Bat I 1 the rn c t o n n is d i u ra c t t .n d th o e f irr i li bi ltre i rtel et i cm i pt rei rci a ns . well what they were doing. He would implore them -Here the Noble Earl entered upon an eloquent every other charge; there was one from which nothing cool,* to weigh accurately what would better effect the . exposition of the conduct of Ministers in enforcing rescue it-it was most impolitic-(Hear! heir!)-What was object of i the Cathuhe Committee? The most laudable-. inertness of Ireland :. and he would then have them ; the Convention Act, which, we are sorry, our Units the h think what its disaffection must be. .At a moment will not permit our reporting at full length. He was t om e n gat t i h fi o c i a lc t • ober tame, f an c h o o l n d ou o r r a b i :led ;:different ren ambition. n 1 m e c til a ld th e pursuit?o like this, when a force the most gigantic was pre- tint arguing, continued his Lordship, the construe- He would be unworthy the privileges lie looks for-lee would pared to act against us ; a force under the guidance tion of the Convention Act-they might construe, as not be worthy the few privileges that are left him-without ambition of a freeman,. he could be At only to be. slave. Of a man whose sagacity, whose activity , whose re- they please, still they are to prove that they were the !Hear! bear! hear 'J Was ehere then any thing its the ',Weil sources were confessedly great, was it prudent to throw right in enforcing it ? Suppose the Convention Act of the Catholic Committee that made this Intetfereuce ou the from us the energies of Ireland ? Was this an hour was all that they pretend it is, does this necessarily part of the Irish government, a measure of policy ?-No tutu to cast away our strength • to pluck off our breast- justify their acting upon it in the manner they have would be bold euough to say that there was -If there was plate before we d escen d e d into the lists ?-The No- done ? But how is it they justify-the conduct of the b n : th . o in g, ii.n the object, was there any thing in the maim ble Lord had said, that the sentiments of this country Catholics was illegal, and therefore they enforce the might be ‘be."'„„YijerullieLvi e su re re d , as to t Lffec w t ere that tol u d lij t e: a t--- t t i h re. is were changed with respect to the Catholics. It was Convention Act ; but have they shewn that the .and was unusually. tranquil ; then w y hy impose, restraints-. i l os such thing,. and the belief of it was a miserable I conduct of which they complain was illegal.- unless they felt in that tranquillity, the stillness of deepair-i delusion ; they too who cherished that clamour would What '. Was that the first instance? Did they forget Lao there were other. dangers no great, as earful, mid as mes sing as aav that weakness and emperasce have accumulatt d *944 io the storm-they vsettkiiafallibly be &along 17‘13, when the Delegates were over bews end intro- la Ireleuel-we coneendiu fur our exastenee as a pee peop le Its victims. He was utterly unable to.coneeive, indeed , ductal to his Majesty ?-The Committee then was, with the most formidable power-a g power that was grow ing why the refusal to grant any concessions to the Catho- he contended, the same as the Committee now exist- ie the double ratio of her advance and our decline. If at (tics should be so pertinaciously persevered in. The ne- log. This, which now was loaded with every t r his s a ho d ur i of peril we could be suddenly scared' from our fol. easily for the penal statutes was now entirely passed. opprobrium, and charged as being the nurse of dis- of f e the nationals rm e goointod sense, wisdom-if and o b e i n gr i ll g r/ a s e h o o v u l l t d oi rl e r r o a p ae i t e s h b rs o o ld g What danger could there possibly be to the Esta- I content and tumult, and sedition, was at that time back her train of virtues, beueficente, couiliatios, amid ins bushed Church ? There was nothing in the quality 1 unmolested. What, he asked, was the character of tice-" Good God !" exclaimed Lord Grey, " what might we of these statutes, the repeal of which can affect the the Catholic Body at that day, when they had their not the" ta hope for! What could we have to fear thoug h ~ security of the Church. A greater peril was incurred I Delegates and their Committees in every part of r e h r ea n r, .e hearv E;r B op u e t - if th w ou h f t h e w E i nr a o r p e e la w y e is re his a g no o tl or ter r F e r s s o n o c r e ee ? s in the present system of intolerance, for in propor- lreland I The preamble of the Bill passed at that with a desperate profusiun - while we are drying up the source tion as Cie Roman Catholics were rendered disgust- ' time in favour of the Catholic concessions, recites the within us, an excessive taxation operating on diminished ing to themselves, in that proportion they were ran- cause of them, by describing the " peaceable and le -1 wealth-while we are on the eve of a war with America, dared dangerous. The boast of . the Church of En g- , gal demeanour of the Catholics," and yet at this very wi arc to t e hage ha a t ti w y e th c i a n n g h but pu r ce wh o a r t u w n' e toti oat i y n n !r t el f aza r , land had always been, that it appealed to the hearts : time they had their Delegates and their Committees, The Noble Earl proceeded to allude to scone of the observe. and minds of Englishmen, and it had hence become I but this did not merely prove that the existence of those assent- tious of a Noble Lord opposite (Rosa), which, be confessed, one of the main bulwarks of the freedom of this coon- i I t t e i r es o V t e h r e el . cu t t h i o ll i C i O cs thl i tU t t it wi p t r h ay th e e d patiestwcr,i, loyal hat w ti s , t a h n e d i g n ete nt o o re f surprised him, recollecting, as be did, to have read some try. It was an establishment so wisely constituted- ! time Legislature at the time of its passing this law. In fact, the ia eloquent voor s o p f sec a tes c o s f that tie N o c t a il u e se Lord N 's o , w 4 , hen for Sir e L L. Parsons, try. so admirable in all its relations-so powerful in its ° N t irti t n o r f dientiatwo was , re v prevent t t t O such interfere n.rat mtilte a s l laws with those 11 t 8 omrewt of a had a measure of unusual coerciuto and severity against component parts, that the greatest curse which could 1 Ontti., , ann'on ) , and that p which was to have taken place of ' all the the Catholics been resorted to, which, with all the feet fail upon this country would be its overthrow. Yet ; Irish Delegates at Athlone-to suppress General Meetings and tags against the Catholic claims which we supposed to if it rested upon temporal power, it would have the I la ; e ut r • 3l a t De tee rg t a i t m es e * o :4) f m t l ifi n h ga st l ta; Alcetintanetrl intention ° th u s ,. Leg is- 1 awnaisminotea situationb i s Slajes to ty , j lit of f en t e h r a i beet: a t rea l h t o q u o g t h t b j o a f h ilb g e d t o i o h: fate of every religion so supported ;it would have the ias to the Act itself-and, tint, he did not hesitate to say, that 1 This measure had been reserved to darken the prospects of fate of that very Catholic Religion which was now the Act was a declaratory one—it was 50 described by Lord 1 the government of a Prince to whom the Irish Catholics the object of their discussion. Be should decidedly t: i t r ar ue e and e 1 1 1 1 tti. said, i'!fe e, : iteelyNagoble last y en, Lea , rn thatedit %% r ai d l u i p er ol y ds: ! The N le ob en k a L ccus t tomed to look up to as the ir bright h ut h h h o7 support the motion of' the Noble Lard who opened i declaration of that to be law which was law before-look at its : beta i be di joined fiwomarnteldit them b countryto think by the o sl er r ie c a o ' n w lecn ir ptuoes this debate. Procrastination had beets very lavishly i ptirtiocvTdcititerethahtetl=;'ltW tasitselelbrHieserls abound h ot r i n d ee t t o for the abe sn A ra _ Ct 1 treatment which was now practised towards Ireland. As to dwelt upon by the Noble Lord who spoke last; it jewf g petitioning--here there was nothing made mil-add' the Veto his denied that ever he ur his Nude Friend (Lord seemed to be a favourite word with him. He (Lord which had been lawful-lt was not the pretence that made the j Grenville)hnd ever considered it as of indispensable obligation. even the pretence of petitioning sa- l The Noble Lord intimated it tit be his intention, if °tithing Moira) should be sorry to see procrastination now assembly __ 1 , 1 . cre ari n ga t t a m w sti b ol n p ni etitioiiing was) not even the pretence I farther could be obtained, to bring in a Bill in the course- of employed. The question pressed upon them not for of it could legalize nolast ful assemblies.—Aud here he must ad- 1 the Session, for liberating all Military Officers of every re al)), inexpedient speed-but it required their lame- 1 a v i e n r ei t a te onete'il lat or th% w I' curious e st i n a . i te i tne a nt , s p z ahi N e o t ble Earl o bad Protestant ' elusion frum the disabilities under which they laboured, and diate declaration to the People of Ireland, that they and Catholic, and th a a7no w s as uchlinias A d elegation w o es known i s was happy to find that to v thet measure he should receive h the e were alive to their interest. Let this declaration only this county ! Delegation not 'mown in England! Why, there „ s li a o lli p p e o d r its Gad, t that N oble b the is e couet oo ( a L o r f d pa S r t i d i lin e n i t t 2nd t I 41 go forth , and their deliberations might then be per- I was seaec y a canal projected without a tde egatine wag ther e: Country , the criers lik e ly to beproduced in Ireland by the , no meeting of delegates an LSO? no doubt, a period of real Yt sued with every solemn slowness which wisdom could I tumult, but still amidst all the complaints then made o the persevering firmness (as theywere that to call it) of Mime outnagesand excesses teat prevailed, was there a single murmur ; ten, might be prevailed, sud emiciliatiou would now suggerte agates tbe meeting of delegates ? The Clamber uf Commerce wars ' at lento h. h* reserted to. Lord M ITLG RA VE was of opiuion, that too much another instance-but they bsd been resurted to cowitantly in Ire- j The Earl of LIVERPOOL defended the coadact of the was asked. Ile was disposed to grant every indulgence, bathe j land since the year 17.57,when, in the administration of the Duke I uvernmeu t of Ireland. must consi der that the best interest s of the country ere at itake. lof Bedford of that day,thefirstdawn of a more liberal polic.eopen- L or d GRENVILLE, i n an e l oquen t speech supported the The Roman Catholics could never be relied on as subjects of this : ed upon I reind-there had not been' time since that era of which motion for a Committee • bat the advanced hour iu the thorn. country, being snider the spiritual direction of a person who 1 there bad not been a Catholic Committee. As to certain niceties . . ... . , was under the controul of the euerny. They were told that the of verbal construction, he should not affect them. He thought" lo t t 1 renners it impossible to enter into it. The Howse then divided, when the nitinbers were— Roman Catholics were not represented. With respect to their that the best rule was to adhere to thetnoregeneral and ordinary Contents - 42 Not Contents - - 56 spiritual intereeta, this might be the case. bit their civil interests . acceptation of the words in dispute. He was not prepared to Peuxies • - • 76 were su ffi ciently provided for by a Protesuun representation.- say that the word " pretence" was ex vi termini a false per- Proxies --- 37 He reminded their Lorrl , hips of the attachment of this country to pose. In the statute that had berm referred to, the 131 h Charles —79 -----l6e the Protestant Relielon and of the apprehensions entertained IL it was the falsehood of this pretence constituted the crime. Adjourned at Half put Six o'clock. here when it was suppo sed tat the Roman Catholic Religion Here the Noble Lord entered into an examination of the word - ! —,...., - - lin the aeccudauce Ile wasagainst the encomia:4a ! •of this statute, to shew that it - - the doing - than the 1 the re- - might gm.. grant of all claims, without regard to thi;Churck of England. — Should he not oppose this measure he should consider himself as betraying that duty he owed to the country, to the Home, and to his Sovereign. Ile wished them tristand where they were, and should never give his assent to such a Motion till he was con vinced that there was no reason for refusing the Catholic Claims, and that the Catholics would be satisfied with them. Lord ERSKINE expressed his astonishment that their Imrdships should patiently wait, unresolved and uwresOlv ing, till those demands came which certainly would come, for petitions were preparing in every part. They seemed deter mined constantly to refuse all react...alma, beranse no speeide claims of the Catholics were before them. lie had, however, so often given Lis opinion upon the subject, that be should oat, at that late hour, repeat them to the House. It was g m however. for him to hear the Roman Catholics a • as they bad been, and that arraignment the foundation or rejecting their claims, while it was, too, a false arraignment. Ia advert. jug to the prosecutions that had lately been instituted MAR* those who assembled to prepare petitions, he believed Mei be illegal, because they proceeded upon a coostroetini• Of the Act of Parliament, not fairly deducible from the Al 4— ; they had assembled, under the pretence of petitioning, to overawe the Government. - then there would have bees grounds for prosecu'ion. The only charge against tbe Ca tholics of Ireland was, that they had mistaken the coastroc non of the law; and th 6 mistake bad arisen from its ambiguity. ft was his opinion. that there was an abinelast dlißwestee be tween the. Common and Statute Law of the Klegdons. The Statute Law ought to speak for Itself* its maaetiag shoidd ba • lag was _ other s. p .rpose of meeting that made 'the meeting au unlawful one, and theo, upplytng dos to the Convention Act and the Catholic Meetings, he argued that they. could not be presumed to be il legal on their own avowal of the purpose of their meeting until there was evidence that they met to do something else. They net for the express purpose of potitioning— Oat express purpose did not make them an unlawful meet leg, bec.mte It was nut unlawful to meet in order to pet Rion— .tligy could thee only make themselves an ant twiol meetiug iiroceeiliug to do something iu violation of the Act ; then there must be evideuce of that illegal act, and the only act that can make them an un!awftil meeting, would be, that which was contrary to, and in violation of the express purpose of their meeting. And here be could not pass over the strange remittals% of the Chief Justice upon this part of the ens.— What said the Chia Justice, world you have the Magistrate, or hi, Constable wait till they saw the illegal art done, and nut prevent it ? was he to wait till the assembly had done 'same act, *hen they might immediately after disperse them. selves ? This was a kiad of reasopbig which he (Lord G.) thought to he moat dangerous and fitely to laid to error and abuse of else mud extensive latitude He could not think with that Learned Judge, that the principle in this case was . Merely to prohibit, or that prohibition was, so applied, a good in itarlf. He rather thought with a Noble Marquis (Wellesley). who lad Mid a. eloqwently that all restrictions were is Sliedemelves eviar—it waseerbduly wise to prevent—the 6 ',Ned of oil seed hews woe prooeutioa,e4t eoloodyi pueieb. • THE STATESMAN. I ~. • - •~: LONDON: SATURDAY, FERRUAICY 1, 181 t. • The Debate last night in the House of Lords on the State of Ireland, will be found very interestiog. The Motion was favourably spoken of by Marquis WELLESLEY, but he voted agmlist it on the ground that be did not think this a pf.qper time to listen to Claims of the Catholics ! Lord MOIRA, Lord EnsimE, the Marquisses of LANSDOWNE and DOWNSHIRE, the Dukes of BEnTonn and DEVON' , SIIIRV, Lords SomEas, CARTSFORV, GREY, and GRENTILLE, warmlylsupported the Catholic Claims, which were opposed by Lords ROSSE, ABERDEEN, SLDMOUTH, WESTMORLAND and LI VERPOOL. On a division, which took place about half-past six o'clock this morning, the motion of 1 .1 Ord FITZWILLIAK, who introduced the subject if bate ; was negatived by a majority of 83—there "g. 79 for the motion, and 161 whist it. ~,, .. y" i •? C' ,~ ;t1