The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-03-06 00:00:00

- 4.11. 1 N' t l ',7 * (l General of the Ordnance, and General of the Staff. trhotigh they may hold the rank of General, yet it Ards not thought prurient in the Welt AR to el -1 them to hold that Conimienon upin the Starr, this latter one .hie; more snbjea to actual serene. le is, I must aver, ie the meet b ulking incongruity east ever existed in any country. liy tiler law, the eestholics of out atery in Irehod, are cely lender the h. set vces there, arid ceneot be brouzlit ,to this part of tee Carted lienedom fir its cratec ,.,,,,, even upon the greetest exig,-icy, and the mast e-rileus danger of ,Real .e‘t 'test, the talent a Commissioned Offizer is brought into this itintry, he is disq • ilitied from acting in his official eeeacity, and is oihjefled to the alternative of re:ir i 7,, and renouncing. altogether, that profession, in %vetch he, perhaps, has already signalised himself, liv .us meritorious services, or might be disposed te del se., ripen the first opportunity afforded him, in deeereer of his King and country. I should think it si only necesset y to state this great absurdity and ieconvenience, in order to chew the propriety, the jun rhos and the policy of puttiag the laws, upon this su 8, into thither state. This inconvenience eta. even felt so considerably, at the time of passing th rt ea, that it was in the contemplation of the I oeieleture, to pass a similar as in this cent .toy, but owing to various circumstances, it never has yet taken place ; but distina promises were made in both Houses of Pathernent, in the !Thaw of Peet s by the Earl of Claire , and in the Home sefi Con:melts by the Earl of Duckinghamehire. Thi.• e,tenni.tanee will recall to the recolleetion of the 1 loiter*, th.it flit Ntlejesty's former Government were iechned to propose a simile? Bill with all convenient reiseeteh in this country. It is that very objea which I bow propose to put ie.° praflice, so as to pet an end to the inconvenience complained of, to re ii:ezt the pledge which waeglven by the English Go vernment, and to keep grind !aids with the Catholics of I reland. The beneficial elf:As of that Irish Aft. were soon aft erwards felt, nor can it be said, that the slrght eat incnevenience Lae ethics frnm it. Since the passing of that Ad, many indiei luaus of the Catholic per ettesion have materially signalised themselves. wit ness the exploits upon the plains of Egypt and Calabria. In short, the pi egree, of that At has been the means, in a great measure, of extending the power, consolidating the strength, and augment trig the glory of our Country. It still continnes at Pits moment to h.ve the tweet beneficial effease-- The present measure is therefore a necessary consequence of the Irish ..va of Parliament, and amounts to no new concession.--Haring stated thus generally the ot-to* in view, and the benefits to he derived from it ; I shall next advert to the d fferelices wh:ch are to esist b e tween this and the Ad of tire Irish Pathemeut. In the first place, this Bill goes to allow all persons whatever religion they rosy profess, to se: ye sn the Navy as well as in the Army. At the passing of the farmer Aa, an assurance was given w the Catholics, that a Bill should be brought in to enable them is enjoy Commissions a in the Navy ; and the citify reeson why the Navy veal not 11ClUdta in treat Irish Act was, that a'tes pat Government had not the power to ex- Lend such a prov.sioa to the naval department, Ireland having no !easy. Tins pert rbf she essli •ift Las been hitherto Tree:eel to be accomplished by this Imperial Perliainent. if it be right, that the Catholic. should enjoy tl.ose privileges when levy ing in the army, these can be t:o deuet of the pro priety of share:laying them equally in the naval service of the country. If tee. ehe any danger to be appritheureee from a Ceteoltc Army, that dan ger u.u.t sortie he increased by that army serving in a country tc.rie their religious tenets end prep dices OreVAII to the gre.tes: extent. Ireland, 1 shoelal eey, would be the country where such dan gers were need to br apprehended, yet no sock dan eer bas been exert !rimed . In the present MIL. it is also proposed to grant an extension of privileges, and to do away the teetrietions which 1 have stared to exist in the Irish A. 1 mean the reetriaions, as to the Catholics holding the situa tions of Commander in Chief, Master General of the Ordnance, and General on the Staff. I will not propo s e any such restriair.n, in the present Bin, because I do not think it is founded upon any good principle. (.4 erg If e ,r b al .!) If I thought there was danger in such an admis sion, I certainly should nut wish to obviate it, by timing iestreints, but by effeeting a general exclu sion. rhe present Ball will, therefote, admit Ca tholics, generally, into the Army and Navy, without any alluestm to rank The restriaions, in the Irish Aft, have been found to be attended with many in eonveniencies to the service. A Catholic may be a Colonel, commanding a regiment, but should he be cede! upon to take the commend of several regiments. even by the unanimous voice of ail who know Lis met its, when in aaual service, he can. not assume tee command, as a elajer-General. 'lbis, I think, is not only a disadventage to the officer himself, but to the enundry, when placed .w, that situetion. I cannot think that such appoint ments would be prejudicial to the security of the cou, t. y, when it is considered, that His Majesty has the eppeiitting of these General OfEcen ; those si tnetimee will therefore he occuied by men who will Iv p eviouely approved of by the Executive Govern ment ; and we .ue not to suppose that any Execu tor, Goveteinent would appoint any whiteout:l be erispos.,l CO prove dangerous. The Imam up of these resuiniees, keeps alive a spirit of chseentent, teed , to damp tee enirit of the enterptieing solder, and my ptev.mt :Aro f: um being occupied to nets the most beneficiel for the set vice of his country. This bill is farteer to provide for the free exercise of their eel ion, se far as it does nut interfere with emir military duties. believe eoneehing of this kind exists already, by: I em afraid that there has been some degree of a ruisgaided teal, which lute prevented its cemptete acccmplishruent, and this has been the means of exciting discontent in the ewe y. I propoor to secure dile Mica i.s the mane of a clew in the Al of Parliament, eirryior t with it the setellios of the Legislature iteelt; order to remove all doubt !lane :he sehjea. These pins:sisals in the Bill are therefore so sepatat ed, that where (Net/lone exist against the one, i;.ey will not apply to the other. The ohjea of a:ceiling to them that degree of religious 'abet rr.s. is merely to prevent them provide for them any religious estahlishment , such as chaplains, salaries. &c. but only to allo w them to exercise their religious de votions in anyrnauaer they may thick proper , wh en not interfer i ng w ith ii:, public shay. I can lei dly think, that any -et icrus oliretioa can possibly he urged against such a reasonable proposal. The measure, u pon the whnle, will tend to excit e a laudable ambition, and will prove a great means of security to the country. Vs ith regard to the increase of our army, it will be productive of the greatest advantage ; for it has al ready been experienced, that much more of the population of Ireland would enter iota the arly, wer iot for the restrAints im posed ro upon the e m. t n Such a measure not hav ing been adopted sooner, has been the means . of agitating discont ent ' , a nd proving a 'c urse ut danger to the Country." On all these giounds, without enlarging further, he should content him self with moving , for lea ve to bring .in a fill, to enable His Majesty to avail h imself of the services of all His liege snivels, in His Naval and .Military Force, in tl'e manner dee ein mentioned. Mr. PERCEVAL—" Sir, I rite to state, that, in my opinion, the principle of this proposed 131:1 such that I shall think my self bound to oppose it in every stag-. Feeling such obi ...aloes as I do t o the principle of it, I think it necessary to apprise the Noble Lord. and to call the attention of the House and the public, even a t this earl y stage ofits pro gress. to what I deem of the utmost importance, the pointing out the dangerous tendency of this annum. It is not this individual measure alone that I con ceive to be so olijeCtionable; bat I look un his as only being a part of that whole p ri nc iple e hid, is gradually growing, day by day, upon us If we do mean to guard our counts!, and to afford it that proteaion which our ancestors have sought to surioend it with, it is alone to be effigled, by making a stand against every indivi twit step that is taken, inimical to the welfare and security of the Church and Sate. I am persuaded, Sir, that the itieesin es th.t: are proposed, day by day, in this Hon -e, ceierot sop short of a total repeal of all those tests, s. hich it has been thenlit necessary by our ancestors to establishdor the safetyof our country. This present measure is a partial repeal of the Test Aa, founded upon tegument' of reasoning, which apply exclusively to the repeal of the whole of the Test and Corporation Laws ; because, if they are to be repealed at ad, 1 do not see any reason for arguing, that they should not be totally repealed, by extendiug such a Bill to other euhje.fts. lam one of those who think. that nothing is su import ant to the welfare and traiiiiiielity of that pert of the United Kingdom, celled Ireland, as the upholding of the Protestant Ascendency, and A Protestant Establishment. If you mean to preserve that counti y and this united, if you du useaa to pieserve that teleratinn which we are all desirous of presetviug, I wish to have the wails of preserving that cstabaMment by waieh 1 know practically that toleration can be established. This is not to he effeeled by handing poetsr to those wile. when they had it, did not to. ' les a-e. Cast we think it coiseietent with wisdom and liberality to mite an establishment in the body of teat kingdom. to have a permanent interest therein, ro as to counteract evety establishment which our ancestors have wisely created for fee encouragement of Protestantism? The Noble Loid thinks that this measure will be beneficial in creating and I supporting a spirit of ambition at emulation in t.'se c ountry. and that the continuance et restric tions will have a conuasy tendency. This may truly be denominated, a Christian spirit of tolera tion; but. wi!h regard to this, 1 have a contrary eonviaion. I have as complete a regard for that kind of toleration as any mint and would not wish to constrain any mart in his religious exercises and opinions ; and this I conceive to he toleration. I think there cannot be a greater crime commit ted by one man against another. than to impose tests= is in the exercise of religious duties Now, the Noble Lord proposes opening the Army and Navy to those persons called Catholics; and he fr.unds his principles on the At of 1;93, passed in the Irish Parliament; and he argues upon the footing of its being a species of seventy, the pie s:frying such a law in Ireland. and not re tending it to this country, when the soldier is compelled to come from the one coun try to the other; but I will not in any degree add my c . ensent to an enlargement of any pri vilege of this description, without seeing a Elting. er and clearer case made out, to show that the grievances a&smally exist, which are so complain ed of. The grievance which he principally alludes to, if it can practically exeit, must have exited previous to the Union, as well as At the present hour. Nay, Sir. it is a grievance which he must tell us has existed not only since the Union with Ireland, but even since the Union with Scot land ; for there is not one instance of the inconve nience of the Lish serving there and not here, which lis nut equally felt by the Presbyterian ar! &sta. blohed Churchman of Scotland entering into the army. The Scotch Presbyterian is no more dis posed to take the Sacrament. according to the Eng lish form, than the Catholic is. But has there been a backwardness upon that account to enter into the army ? and has there been any inconvenience ex pel iensed after they have entered? If there has been such, it must have existed since the Union with Scotland ; but I deny that any inconvenience dias exist in peitit of law. It is impossible that it can he so contended. that the Irish Catholic, by coming to this country, Mears penalties. The eon,- pelting a man to tl.) what is contrary to his duty. would riot reader his as illegal. When an Mt of PoiliAmetit sanaions a men's condme, it not only autoerises bat legalises the duty which it com mands. Such then, is the situation of the law, a: is at present stands. The Roman Catholic is enabled to enliie himself into the army, and to hold erioimiions to a certain extent therein. by a clause which is included in the Mutiny Ae. which passes every year ; an Mt which com pels every man to obey its provisions, and in Case of disobedience, to incur a punishment, in some caees amounting to death. It this he the case, then i is evident that eve! y :nen wen obeys it, does not incur a penalty—if he des ibrys, he would be s c. Iseynod that, if there were any ineon , ven strict expeilimeed, would net the Annual intlem e it awav ? Certainly it such an Ad should be brougla forward. Tbdis who arc qualified to at in Ireland, may. by the orders cf the Legislature, be at any time qua. lified to do so in this c ;natty also. But the testriftions in the Irish A:Li el Parliament, as to tire superior commands in the army, are to be done away, and that t , o upon arguments which go to repeal the Test Aa. But do these arguments not apply to other protr,,inis as well as to the nil litare ? It is said to he . I .i,courirg to the soldier, that Ire cannot case to ter ev.n . cise of the utmost height of his prokssion ; and so it is, in :egad to every other probes-ion in the country. So it is in my profession. Roman Catholic Lawyers cannot look to be Judges, nor can they aspire to the Chan ' celioiship. 1 see that Gentlemen are prepared to acqniesee in the justice of this remark, and to say that that restridion also should not stand. , Nay. Gentlemen, the argument gees yet further, it goes to the Crown itself; as well as to the situation of every Of f icer of the State. 13ut, Sir, it had better be so, rather than be car ried to that extent, which, though not expressed, I am confirmed in my opinion, will be the ultimate result of going thus step by step towards the com pletion of that object. This measure, in its pro- gress, will open a road to introduce Catholics to the free exercise of all professions whatever, by re moving gradually all the present existing obstruc tions. I wish to bring the House. and the public, to the important considerxian, that this measure is not to be determined alone upon the ground of the propriety of admitting officers to these rank:, hut it extends to this point, whether, by continu ing the reasoning, you ate to encourage still farther expedations, that you are to do something more— that you are to fee their appetites by encouraging their hopos and desires? You are thus giving the Catholics reson to exped, that, by perseverance, they will obtain what the; want. Such will be the fatal effeds of the experiment of feeding their ap petites. it would be as well to do every thing, if you wish to do any thing. You mu,t establish the Roman Catholic Religion, or you do ro tting. If you do almost immediately consign the country of Ireland to the Catholic Religion, you have not satisfied them. It is impossible to imagine, that the Catholics there should not be more desirous to pay then tythes to the professors of their own faith, than to those of any other. 'lle question, I say, is, whether the Protestant Establishment is to be given up into the hands of the Roman Catholics ? or whether we are to stand and say that we have done nothing but what the ad of toleration requires ? Beyond that toleration, every thing must be governed by sound policy and discre tion; and, therefore, I say, that you have not tranquillised, but rather created, a wish for more concessions. Policy and discretion tell you, that you should no; proceed in this manner, or grant any thing which can encourage a disposi ion to aSiC for more than you will ultimately be disposed to give. The Noble Lord would have led you to be lieve, that the greatest part of the Navy and Army of Great Brit iia are Roman Carholic , , and to them were due all the vidories we have ob tained. it this be so, then the truth is, that Ova., of the Catholic persuasion are not excluded from coming Into the service either of the navy cr army, and therefore such arguments ought nut to have been held by the Noble Lord, in support of his pre sent measure. The alleged gticvance then is prov ed to be a false one ; and, therefore, the present is the proper state for matters to endure in. The Articles of War would be the best mode of in troducing whet is aimed at, as it affords His Ma jesty an opportunity of correding such privileges, from time to time, as may be required. But if you' make any legislative provision upon this sub jed, you encourage Methodists, Presbyterians, Ro man Catholics, and, irAhort, every other se 1, but those of oar own Church ; if you give leave to every description of soldier to rise to the highest rank, to what situation do you reduce our army ? There are no such previsions for direding the soldier in the due exercise of the Establish* Religion of the country, while we are thus ,so anxious about establishing the exercise of the Roman Catholic faith ! The Noble Lord teals you, that his scheme is completely new, as to the navy, as mthing was included in the AA of 171t3, their favour, by the Irish Government. I suppose, then, that sailors too will have the free dom of religious worship, as well as in the army. We must have Roman Catholic priests on board of every ship, or we must have no priests at all. We shall have Roman Catholic captains, and a Roman Catholic crew. Suppose, then, that there was an invasion of Ireland to take place, by Bonaparte, in order to establish the Roman Catho lic Religion in that country, I think that the expedi tion, so sent, would not be so safely, or so street ually encountered by ships occupied by Roman Catholic captains and crews. Therm may be thought cu rims considerations; hut these, and various others, make me look with jealousy to the particular princi ple of this Bid, which, I think, is operating al a grow ing evil, and will assume a more formidable appear ance when it presents itself again to our view, and steals upon us in another shape thatt it would actu ally do at this moment, were it ro be proposed to be carried to its utmost extent. If it came altoge ther, Parliament would naturally make a great ex ertion. and whatever Parliament would do would be done wisely. These gradual approaches to the ultimate nhje I. are not impeded by all at the time of their Mtradulion, end not regard ed as to their ultimate efferd. i, for one, con wive, that by suffering these diff-rent steps to be taken one after the other, there w ill he strength ac quired, and Parliament will not be able, at some future period, to withhold what it would wish to withhold. Parliament will lose that by its weakness. which, in its judgment, it may condemn, but cannot withhold afterwards. I shall at present conclude by saying, that the whole measure has my deeded hostility, but I shall postpone any further duet na tions till sem, future occasion." Earl TEMPLE was happy to Lear the Right Hon. and Learite I Gentleman state his opinions in t ivrnsr of religious toleration, at the same time he o-uld have wished to have found him carrying his proferted principles on this subjed into practice. The Learned Gentleman had supposes! the case of the inv.oion of behind ay a Foreign Power, aecom -ied by a Bull from the Pope, and avowing the radisilie Rtsligiwt, and be asked, what alight be the efea of the presert Tara. sure ia such a ease, as givinp alJi innal encourage nteut to I! e Catholics of Leland 3 but he cud wish to ark that Learned Gentlemen, whether. on the supposition of such an event, the efree of rejeding the present Bill, and ourselng a sestern of intolerance, would not disidr. a that bede. and so tend to increase the danger ?• Tne Learned Gentle men had made use of an Argument against the present measure, that it would 're! nueatery, unless accompanied with te her concessions. and that it would be doing nothing. naless Parliament proceed. : esi to give the Catholics in Ireland an establish ment; but so far was this iirgumeat from being welt founded, that the Irish Catholics themselves. la their Petition. depr.c diet this very boon. Th. Hon. and Learned Gehtlemen hail asked, what ne. cessity was there for stub a Bill as the eresent, which, in his opinion, would s.sp the foundation of the Protestant estabiislament .it toe country, wheal a declaratory law would be suffitient ? The Learned Gentleman wished to give the Catholics in lolled the power of serving iii the army, but, at the same time, did not wish to extend the privilege to Calm lies in England, whilst those in the former countre amounted to dace millions, whilst the number of ' those in England was cemparatively small, and their influen c e proportionably so. Bu: the House, 1 he trusted, could not coincide with the teeter ing& of the Learned Gentleman on that sobjee. The Hon. Gentleman was of opinion, that unless Parliament threw era the whole of what was wanted by the Cetleeies, it would he of no use to grant them a pert. But to this a: eurnent he considered it a sufficient answer to say, that ,d 1 ! that was asked in the present instance was, a been of a limited extent ; and that it was only in case el more being asked, or twine a' tempted to be granted, that the hon. Gentletnart's argument V:cti:d lore i its efreet. In short, the whole question reauted, itself to this, whether the yet& boon now asked, was such as, if granted, could render the Catholics, I either in this county or Ireland, the objects of j..a. lousy or distrust ? In vast would it be to exiled allt. gience from those, who were e atehe same erne, tole, that they were unfit to enjny the benefits sit that i. logiance ; or to lonk for attachment from three, tribe were riot to receive any support from the Gev he. meta of the country. Mr YORKE said, that be approved of the prin.. ciple of the Bill. so far as it wrist to connea tee proceedings of the United ihtzliernent, to that of the Irish_Perliament in 1;93; the Armies of Gies' Britain and Ireland being row united and one, it seemed the more necessary that the laws mix:nil it should be the same iii both countries; bat Tree. ther the Aa ~1, - the Irish Parliament should he cr. tied to the extent proposed by the present Bill, be considered as quite ano.her thing. It was, th.re- fore, not t 3 be wonders i at, it his Right liennurae:e Friend (Mr. Perceval), and others, entertained a consider:Ode degree of jedousy on such a sufhd. The prieciples of his Learned Friend were too ei • lightened to have it insinuated, by the Noble fore that they savoured of the derk ages. They woe the principles which regulated ma ancestots at the time of the Revolution and the l lenovcrian micas. sion. He wished to know on what the Bill iit Rights was founded? Or the AI which settled thr. Crown on the Protestant House of Hanover. to the eat:lesion of all Popish Claim* , is ? Were troae te be branded as the produce of the dark ages ? Or were the Founders of the Revolution, and tees: whi were aftive in placing the House of Hanover on the throne, to be branded as illiberal bigots ? It appeared to him to be one of the senors difficulties attending the present time, that it mooted an inducement to favour innovations. — However, when a choice of difficulties present ed itself, he was led to think that it mieht be for the safety of the empire in some respells to re lax. Upon this ground, it appeared to him, that, as the Catholics ware permitted to serve in the Irish army, it would be advisable to extend this privilege to the Army, and also to the Navy of the United Kingdom. He wished not to make any distinflion 1 between any part of the suhjeas of the United King ' dom ; hut, at the same time, as it was impossible to forget the spirit of insurrection which prevailed amongst the Irish Catholics in the year 179 1 • so it must not be wondered at. if feelings d considerable jealousy were recited on the present occasion. As to the Roman Catholics of this coot• try, they had undergone the purgation of centuries, and must be considered as good and loyal subjeal. He saw no necessity for iterodueing the presort Bill, and perecularly that clause which went to air thurise to all pers Ins in the Army art Navy, :rt of the communion of the Church of England, tie free exercise of their religions weeship ; for he bed never heard any preillicel shakoes , stated, or any real ground of complaint teipeOling Catholic Ort cers and m n being prohibited from atteeding di vine worship in their own way ; and hr had per atonally known some Catholic Offerers in the AMY , wi.n had made no difficulty of going with their doe sion to church. When the Reformation ni.t tort place. the Catholics made no objeftion to atteo4l the worship, bnt only the sacraments of the Church of England ; for although the Protestant Church et punge 1 and r , j^tted what they c msidered as er roneous, still it retained a part of the formulates made use of in the Church of Rome ; he Civet ce saw no rrions grievance existing, which required ie be amnestied by Ase of Parliament ; and he reala thought it was much better policy net to attempt to remedy the grievance in this way, which slmuld IA be resorted to without a case of strong necesste• For the last :30 or 40 years, he beiieved , there si,Aa no instance of o ffi cers being required to take tie oaths; as the ptaftWe therefore was becoming co solese, be thought it would be much better to let things go on as at present, rather than to have suit suhjens stirred no in that Hotter. Mr MON PAGUF, declared, that he consid whatever related to the Protestare Religion, as til tinguirhed from the Roman Catholic, to be of tient.: importance to this country. and that the p servatioit of the Pinter ant establishment was esser daily rig lints to maharaja the peace both of t country and Ireland. Leon the subjeß dully. the House had two principles to look to; the to! was that of toleration, wi bout which nothing ow: go on well in a country ; and next to this was e s emits , of the establishment. He was a fraid, it°l the arguments which had been adduced by tl , Noble A.:Rd who had introduced thus measure, Ibi • i ' .