The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-12-22 00:00:00

.'Y• i d l e priaciplel ef--iprimesaL governineat„ he gm duty of -the Estates, consisting 1' li t s ;; e d Camiautia,,evidently was to provide l! a the only meees of givittg subsequent co. l an' • forc e to t h eir preicedings, and of giving so" 14 " , ..:,-;awres and tad . inan , ews a legislative sanction. s rellt In du th is was atipported by. the nem_ itti , . and ; [Os. tbs.! , parainvon t obligation* 1 0 , g this purity ead integrity of the Con_ sf • There cou ld a be.no. legislating without . a I''' .ivtra ting Third Estate. When that was provi_ t h e y •a .complete and perfect Parlia. 0 illustrated by the period of the R e volution. to which that &cat •fernished T„ ih. „Totten' • f ern i s h eed, he I. d the attention of the n putt., for it was.n. pees ! n ..t more obviously diinguiehed•trom - rtat cti• 178 s, 1 1 the circumstance st of the abdi f cation h of 6 ic felon% Monarch, ll?fsa by its aing been .ef. ',coal, s alutary in its operation, an h d v strengthened. iu ihe acquiesce of the people.. The - Bill of ee rer. 'ewe& boils Ifouses; and had it t. 411 b. . e , pa rsed..it Was impossible to say how the coon. tr y at•large.,inisfil have regarded it.. Yet,* that foe, it. *AS de..med most expedient to . adopt the mile o f an . ,W . ltlrcis. The exercise of the Exe.• ca its Power might tie sometimes entrusted without the,3liniseen of the Crown acting upon their pc t iet at,emtmul t i#Slity,:.hittllio assumption of I t h e Execuilsif vyitg by the twit. houses was to I be m ew led an AO principle. Yet these functions they woo" usurp, krtrrilli,lTA'tnntrivance to pro cure the name of ( 11 5itifts • ilo'the.tround.work of an after proceeding, which was to provide for the l oyal iiicapacity. Dolts% thromeracity of t h e s e . they endeaveurto supply Rig the creation o r a fi c titious capacity, at hecetsary to give effect t o the means of remedying the deficiency. * The coarse, therefore, proposed by Ministers was re ploont to the Constitution in two Ways, first, as it a 5 . 1.001 an Executive Authority on the part of the tau Houses, and again as jt went to legislate without the Royal Assent. A power had been s aerrcd to belong to the Houses of issuing is.ir ConitillMlS to the servants and officers of v ie iiitig.—But could they enforce obedience to to it orders ? Could they, if such happen. el to be their pleasure, remove the Commander. 11.04 from Isis office? if not, what was the 131oe of their Executive Functions? If their le. powers were examined, be apprehended the . , w ntld be* found eqitlilly inilective. If they turd the subject, and wits refused, could the contumacy of this refusal be legally- punished, or w mid open resistance incur the penalties of the j a ,6 ? The distinction *hick had been made be. twee!' the political and tiessonal capacity of the Monarch, required to be made and dwelt on with t,, greatest caution. At that unhappy period of o•ir history, when the people armed under the auspices of the Parliament, against the Crown, was stated in a Remonstrancedraw.o up, while the hostile paities were confronted in the. field, that, alth ,ugh the person of the King was among the oaks of their *drolleries, they, the Parliament, vent fighting far the• Monarchy, awl defending thy *ideal capacity of"tho King; This circumstance he merely mentioned to prove with •what - delicacy, this.vecto-nisre distinction „mutt tat treated. The H uo usratrle-Geatieman gonclulled • with a few oh setvottuns.9.ll4lic &n q imposing any reitric. /ions. an 'theltegentoyhese sleep interest in the welfere of the ilisueeishy ,was a • sufficient security against distrust: $t Bespieion. 11r.:1‘90.11 said., • that the. questiaa before the Haase wee nothing .more Mae whether the best mode of supplying the defect to the Royal Autho rity was by Bill or by an Addles!. The arguments which he had heard, defining thealaties and powers of that linuse,- were just, but would, nut apply to a castor urgent necessity. They were now delibe rating whet:iughtto.,. : bet thane to provide for the calamity that had tlllea.,upon the • nation. .. There was little or no . reseMblance between the circum stances that attended the Revolution end those of tha present emergency. The Throne was then va cant, now it is full ; we have tt Nu; labsitsring na iler temporary. inpapicity„ but et that time aKing was wanted. 1111.71(. begged leave to Correa the expression of the'Hoitciurable Gentleman as.tO the creation ofa Third Estate ; but he believed be min. took the - Honoia'able GMletnait'sineatiing, Pre-: talons, he'thought, were always to be followed, eteept when the times furnished some striking peculiarities of contrast. lie would not look to the letter of the law on . such an occasion, bit would trace out the spirit of the Constitution in the records and proceedings of Parliament. In the space of 22 years, which had elapsed, since 1788, the precedent established at that time had ie liaineduncontrovertei. It had not been contradict. ell or rescinded. Hit it did not stood upon its own single authority, it was fontided on the two periods in the reign .of Henry the Sixth ; both of which Wafted to him to be strictly in point. If, as at that ficte, it should again happen that the Crown de volved to au infant, and the infant was not placed * by any exprestion of the will of the deceased Sove. reign in any particular guatilianship, would not the mime which was then pursued be again adopted • likuld my difficulty be then interposed to patting' Great Seal :to a Commission ? Would not this be an ..ct which it would be imperative on the Privy Council to perform ? The difference between in. caaacity arising from infancy or indisposition, was immaterial ; buts case of indisposition occurred also, when the same power was used in the same manner. This was previous tothc civil war, which had not then commenced, as was proved by the Courts of Justice sitting uninterrupted. He could_not, therefore, per. ceire the force of those objections which had been raised against the supposed assumption of an uu . Itunstitutional power. * • Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that the Right Honourable Gentleman had well remarked, that precedents to be in point, should be appli. cable to times and circumstances. •He was surpris. ed that an ll4nourable- Gentleman (Mr.' Stephen) i who had condescended to represent an Irish ho.' rough,should hiaveorerlooked in his predilection for the prOxedeist of 1788 - • 9 the .egoduct of the Irish wow fosoriniirt 'of th e IMPerisl Par l i ament. But was 17§8k0....ke ittlealited to the present , periWpwn fart kry elf anltoice. France, insteiid:gfJlising extenirCil hei empiie over Ilit• whole of Europe, was then under singular cm- ~........ „ . . • .• . . Tilt STATESMAN.. -%-. .._ __.•. , „..--,... ~..... . , . barrilsomta ea • and Ireland, which was titiiiiiii; ed erßhofft itmttations. Thp Regent has always quit, was now far from being so. The country been saddled with a permarient 'Council. The per. was then slig htly bnrdene.d, it was now beading en. manency of such a Commit secures' a peepetual op. der the weight of taxation. ,The King was then position ; and it is therefore a perpettial limitation. younger, .:o l ith the prospect of recovering perfect He wished to recal to the attention , of .the House he infirmities are now well known; he two points. The first, That all 'we base now to was not th en in a s t a t e i n w hich k n owledge was at do is to provide for a temporary occasion. The se en's entrance quite shut out. The conduct of the cond, That we are appointing deputy, ateor w a hi nd te n v u er . suet more simple, it avoided._ Irish Perliament was not m e rely more delicate , it thiug more —a trustee, a • dele ll e , all fiction and fallacy, other name may be affixed to the idea. fie hearti ly I prevented all unnecessary delay. If ever there concurred hi committing that trust to his. Roy al was a moment, however, when delay was to be guard. Highness ; but at the same time lie wished it to be td against as pregnant with the must serious 'den. committed to him with limitations. This was no Viers the present was, that moment. In what situa. jealousy. If we limit the Prince, we act on pub. Lion did we stand with respect to Sweden? .Hail lic principles—we act for the benefit of posterity. not that power declared war evilest us, and had we • Lord PORCHESTER stated that it was now ,resorted to any measures' in consequence ? %Vas it 'not his intention to say a word on the second Re. not true that a Swedish ship which had been de. solution ; but as it had been brought forward, be Wined had beery released since the declaration of would take this occasion of stating his sentiments war against us ? What, too, was the state of our re. on it. To that Resolution, in substance, he gave !miens with America? We are in conditional hos. his most eerth•al assent. Ile believed both Houses tility, with. her: and to the. rash and ila dvised (peddled to supply any deficiency in the Executive ceunsels of Ministers was it owing, that, to avoid Power ; for if such a principle dill not exist in the an open rupture, we must compulsorily yield Constitution the whole system would perish. An L I those . cent:onions which ought to have been lion. Baronet .(Sir F. Burdett), has asked us on this Imatte lone ago. Our merchants, who had been s u bject, ec d t ?wW why e idtidot appeal weta to Corporateppcal toourC B ons o ti d t i n es en;sl deluded by the measures and promises of the Right v honourable Gentlemen, he believed, had since • Are we to apply to Corporate Bodies, who tell us, wets ample cause for regretting their infatuation ,• at times,•that we are not the legal House of Com. Upon the subject of the p recedents in the reign of mons of the land ? Why are we not to exercise :Henry the Sixth, the Right Honourable Gentleman that right as a Convention, and in one substantive _ anac i (Mr. Yorke) had observed that no civil war existed ac t, emanating from wirselves . This is to proceedproteetel to to fillt en. i at the second of those periods, as was shewn by the the deficiency. 'sitting of the Courts of Justice. lie could inform tire,' our own. ' But if we proceed by ourselves to that Right Honourable Gentleman, that the (.7,; affix ill • L S eel to any Act, we shod soon • begin to irue be here is nu b en told that t sat its Ireland during the most 'alarming periods of censider alt the other acts of the Executive in the rebelliitn, and, that the Judges even went on the same light. W' have ; • . usual circuits. • The security of the people w as the magic in the Seal , at one proceeding paves peat trust reposed iu the House of Commons their the way to a n o t her, and no man can foresee where Sovereign therefore was to 110' regarded polit icallyt all this will terminate. We have been forced to and not peisonally,'and there had been a time when look to the precedent of the isitrodection t h e R evolution. That is the precedent to which the King of the' King's name fur the purpose of influencing the derision.' of the Reuse would throne — th e precedent to owes his which the people owe Written pronounced' highly Irregular. He verse. theiu liberties. After a variety of other °Werra. , ' rated his Sovereign lions, he concluded by voting i , and•denied that !Ministers pos. in favour of the' 4esed the exclusive loyalty of the nation. I f there 4dtlreso• e , Mr. LOCKHART spoke in fav o u r of the BM. were men in the country, whose object i t was to The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER subvert the' Kingly Office, it wins impossible that replied at considerable length to the several oboes.' they should not hail the arguments t hat had been varicose of the preceding speaker, and contended, employed by Ministers. The course o f p roceedin g nun; 'recommended would serve to afford a practical that every objection which, on the score of Mega.. illustration of such doctrines. lily, was advatreed against the proceeding The Honourable by way GeMtlemed (Mr. Stephen), had s a i d that the of fill, was as effectually miplicable to the mode of :. method of Address Would be equally tedious, and that Address. With respect to the charges so freqhently fifteen days had been consumed by the Irish Par. insieuatedagaiest his Majesty's Ministers, fin any !lenient in 1788. lie wuuld set that llsnourable 'alleged assumptionof eitrtiordinary power, be had Gentleman right, 'who, although an Irish rep resen. to assnrethellberautabk Gentlemen opposite, that Wive, did nut appear to b tes very well informed• in he felt the ;responsibility of. his situation—he felt Irish history. Including a. recess of four days only what he owed the interests of the Crown and the ninteintervened between , the Message from the Lord country. :Fru!, (het responsibility le! would never 'll.leatenatit, and the adoption of the-Addrest to the' shrink, edifter Weida he be deterred front taking tt s i n e ese s even weeks have new mes e awa y, s ee upon himatitf; in the present emergency, to do . that the nation biaseding at every pore,' yet no single which the best Intereata of the public made neces. step had yet been taken. his Hen. Friend (Mr. airy, although such acts on ordinary occasions sieed, that the House was cosmic. b e l ong ed to . the Executive 'Power. Wh e never ' Wynne) hat% ar _ e ither proceeding. Admitting this, the time for taking' the retr os p ect occurred, tent to adept he would . hewer vonyeal his motives or his eon. that the* qlseatton became one of expediency, and, duct ; but, on •the..contrarsr, make his appeal to that which . ,was th e mos t eeeeeitiees w as the most • for that indemeity which he thought it adeisaltle: Hebeliesed his Kaye( Highness could Pediment 'do triersitsiaiSuite - .theirritation and c oneiliatelhe'"lrOotd . be hounintiltriktsToirtwelrefid• * From affections s of Ireland than any man that lived. He that appeal lie would not be deterred, although it reigned already ih ,the hearts of the Irish, 'who were probable that he shonld pot continue to hold looked up to him as likely to afford diem that p ro s ' the situation in the country which he then tied— tection which they had hitherto enjoyed in a less when those who now fi nd kilt with him, would degree than any other description of his Majesty's perhaps posseis a greater sway. in that House. The subjects, • present was not the time to discuss .the allusions . • which hail been made to the stale of our relationi Mr. ELLIOT, id a neat speech, objected to the application of precedents drawn from the turbulent with Sweden and America. • All he could say on periods of our' history, in the obscurity of t h e that subject then was 9 that they had not been neg. Coestitittion, and the imperfection o f our laws. li e leceel. But as to the exertions of .the Exe. considered thwfiction of counterfehimethe •Kihg's cerise Government, he wished to he fully under. assent to be &monstrous prueeedinge'reetignant •to stood, that where a necessity for the public the Constitution, and to every analogy*. Masked, service justified their exercise, even in cases if •the Chancellor 'should refuse to Mlle the Great where the Sign Mantial was necessary—he would Seal,' in conformity to the directions of the two not suffer those interests to' be impaired, but Rouses, what power they had of punishing him, or would fairly Pet himself before Parliament and of remedying the difficulty ? The second Resole. cheerfully stihthit to its decision. —Suppose 'don he thmight superfluous', and should therefore in the case of the Treasury Department, when support the previous question upon sit. money appropriated by the Perliament was to- Mr. RILEY •Aornewron adverted to what had he got from the Exchequer,. would he, or should he fallen from an linnatirabl e Baronet (si r J o hn risk the exi stence of 'a mutiny. in the army or is tile' Newland). That 'llonodrable 'Baronet, he speak. navy, because the letter of the taw could not be Om. • lug -of she precedent of 1788, hail stated, that we plied with ? Was it to be presented that the °thews were now in a state °firer, and that we were then in of the Exchequer would, in such circumstances, re., profound petite. This was the very reason why he I fuse the order of the Treasury ? They could not re. 'wished to follow the precedent of 1788. A wee . fuse co mpliance, although they mty protest against' . dent of that nature was not for o ne time or another, its authority. own Un respder eve'ry ity possiblartlie issue he the would but all times; we do not legislate alone for the pre- act upon his onsib, reeess of re. *tient time, but for posterity. ,The lion. Bafonet too sult• [Cfiei of hear, hear ! f rom the O pp osition • adverted, in terms 14 no means becoming, to the benches.] There was one other subject to which age of our Sovereign. He said, we were to recut. he wished to advert ; it was the statement made by Meat. that he was he 2 yesrs older. flu is ee an H o nourable Member (Mr. Whitbread) on the years older; and if he is so, he has given the lion. last night, reset:tete; the 'seru tend ms who advised the ant on his Majes- Baruat and himself additional reasons to bless his calling in bf the Physicians at mild and paternal reign . With respett to what ty. Without discussing tbe•delicacy of that ques.. `was stated as to the fitness of the Prince of Wales , t • ho had only to assure hint, that he (Mr. P.) for Resent; he certainly believed hint to be most never would answer such an. interrogatoty without • fit for the office, and believed him to be fit for being commantled by that House. it 22 yearsego. ' Alt Hon'ourable Member (Mr. W. ' Mr. WHITBREAD, in a speech' replete wits. Elliot) had said, he was hot in this House in 1788 ; point and 'Animation, commented upon the elprees a nd unprecedented, which-Me. !Skit that from all that he c ould learn of the Pro. sions, able, bold, ceedings of that period, they then met with his dis. Chancellor of the Exchequer had that night =alio appeobation, and they now 'met eqhalttr with his to the country.. Would-to God that every Member disapprobation: He would tell that Honourable of Parliament froin England, heard Scot. that he (Mr. Addington' ) was h then a . land could have heard' it—could' have d . * Mi e. M ember ember of this Bo"e* "t 1 he was then must nister of the Crown, in the face of Parliament, I strongly impressed with the wisdom of the thee pioclaim• his possessiott-of the ' Royal att i cibutote proceedings, and with admiration of the men who and boldly triumph in his usurpation. (Hear. heart] directed them. The precedent of that period was Would Mr. Pitt, in the plenitude of. his power, have Teetered on such a counts ? Would tie' hare, a most rideable one ; and great as was the calamity Which gave rise to ir, we were not the less to see dared to tell , a British House,of Commous, tharia the great advantages which accrued from such a any Interruption of the (Unctions of -the Sore ' preeedent to the country. '1 he precedent of 'the mire the rights of the. King descend to the see. Revolution had no analogy to the present exigency; Vent ? He would outs and shall it he 'endured and e hen he said this, he was glad •he could rest' that 'the Chancellor of the , Excheqsice of this fillet' . in . vese himself with poeetseablerersive it on the authority of a great and brilliant': statie.- day man, now no "More. That statesman was Mr. of every constitutional princiele?-Ithat he shall as s. ._, • • Fox. Ire had heard him, in 178 g, state express- seine to himself the contrite! cver.theputtlic pueee, by what he now himself stated, that' there. was apply the public ;fleecy when. ited how' ke shall no analogy between the Revolution and the eerier] think proper, and, evolve pretended renpousibiiity,, tle teeon that 'Wows which he blowout to sup. Of 1788 ; and of course these could be no enalogy tram' . his very mitions, he is now crumb. between the Revoletion and the present period.— - pert, which, by 'With respect te the limitations• of the Regency, ling into dust! [Hear, hear, hear!) If he can there was not one solitary instance in the ;moats of establish that 'there existed a full and unasoidable Great Britain ) of a Regent's hating.heen appoint. ucccssity even fur this cteirse, though my political adversary (said Mr. Whitbread), I trust that 1 h ire justice and magnanimity enough set my nom,. to 'give my sanetioo• to an appeal for. his /ode flinty. . 'But when he talks in the arrogant and assuming tint of this night, I tell hiut that—When that day of in. quiry comes, and come i' must, his tone on this night will compel me to vier, his conduct with* most scrutinizing eye. The courage of the Cabinet, . as it seems on this night to be more fully exhibited, appears also much concentrated. Perhaps to tem. per tite temerity of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the counterpoise is to be had amongst his colleagues, and that, even in his Administration, there may be found one individual, who would nut venture with. out the advice of his Sovereign to put the Great •S,wl to any public document. But we are told that subordinate officers in the Exchequer and other branches of the State could nut refuse the , yams. thorized mandate of the Treasury. The Right Honourable Gentleman may call spirits from the vasty deep, but will they. come ? Have • these officers no positive duties to discharge ? Have they Ino oaths of office to restrict- them ? Are their eonseiences in possession, or at the controul of the Chancellor of the . Exchequer ? Let me advise him not to be too presumptuous. He may find himself deceived. This Great Minister, who has led us to commercial prosperity and military renown, may, however, possibly find, from the splendour of his career, willing instruments in every department to uphold the power he has wantonly usurped. From the repeated impunity which every violation of our . interests have met, we have become so familiar with outrage, that very possibly the Minister of the day, nay be,able to effect that which, if Mr. Pitt, with a Whole nation at his back, had doge, in 1788, ' he would not be allowed to continue in the direc. than of our affairs one day longer. One word as to the charge made against me, of having asked an . indelicate question respecting the persons by whose advice certain Physicians were called to attend his Majesty? He has, let it be recollected, made the f charge, and forced me to the necessity of the explana... thin. IVhat, if it should torts out, notwithstanding all this affitcted regard for private feelings—all that . sympathy for human infirmity of which we hear so much—that, putting the case hypothetically, an un. happy patieut, stretched upon his bed of affliction, with his remaining'faculties alive to the fear of be. ing committed to the care of an individual person. ally obnoxious to him, should must fervently In. plere, and that his afflicted family placed around his bed, should all unite in the supplication of not again subjecting him to such care, what, I ask, must be the feelings of those who could refuse such a request ? And was it nut more natural to suppose that the malady of the patient was more likely to be increased than alleviated by the pretence. air. Whitbread, after a variety of other observations; concluded with assuring the House of his intention, even in the case of his Majesty's speedy recovery, to provide the means of guarding against the difficul. ties which may arise front a relapse, and of saving • ' the public interests from being again impaired by • the vile fraud which had been fur the last seven weeks practised upon the country. Mr. ADAM animadverted with considerable force on the dangerous consequences to be appre. herded from a system•of prospective responsibility. • The erode of eleirnteg incteornltydid worappty to a case of .novel, unexpected, and extraordinary oc. currence, but a case foreseen, in which the act was . premeditated ; if this system was to be avowed and tolerated, the first act of the Legislature, the mo ment Parliament was restored, ought to - be to ap. point a succedaneum fur the Executive, in the event of the King at any future time being afflicted by the same calamity; this prospective sort of icspousibi. lity was unknown to the Constitution, and liable to the greatest abus es — no such power oeght to be heard . of as might be claimed under such a •syatem. The evidence of Dt. Willis had been alluded - to; what did that evidence -state :thit on the 6th of No. . vember, the day on which Dr. Willis first saw the King, his Majesty was thee unconscious of sur. rounding objects. ' It was on the first of the same month, and On 'll4 15th, that the, Right Honour. able Gentleman` prevailed. on the House to adjourn over each time .a-fortnight, on the _high prcibakility of his Majesty's speedy recovery. • •This is month had becii lost. But if (bele punifeetive responsibi. lilies were to be admitted, what would be the use of those cheeks which the Constitation.had ordain. ed 'should esiat? Where would be the necessity at -tall of the Sign Matta& ? Quid as was the doctrine of the 'Bight Honourable Gentleman; 'it was Yet • worthy of observation, that whether • [rain 'a differ. once of strength as to nerves, or at to prudence, that there were others in the same Cabinet with that Right Honourable Gentleman who were not so for . ward to hazard such reaponsibility. He knew of his own knowledge that the Chancellor of England Would not put his Seal to a commission of the peace. He admitted the question to be a qaestion of diffi. , eulty,, a qeestion of necessity, in , both cases ; whether of Bill or Address, Parliament acts, Par. liament only acts, with this difference, that in the one it acted. without interfering with the functions of the Crown, in the other it exercised those func tions. . . .... The CHANCELLOR of Ow, giccimatiErc. . hoped, that he would be allowed to make some ex. planation in coniequence of witat Ad fallen ftorn•Sis Honourable 'Member (Mr. Whittreati). That' ' ' Honourable Gentleman hadi hiswever; ,expressed • ', himself to be ready to grant him an isdem., ,. . -oily for act, Of . afisulute necessi_ty.;_ and all that. ;,1,:, had said *ith respoWtootheri wea l thaihu,thotig During the delay, 01110 mai utiatfoidible, all to who held offices shoal e d lisdirge their'slutfteilik 14 ' * utmost upon their oiim reapontibility. - - Theillowe • f!, Gent. had charged hiriCwith.• asshiatie. Visold. and . . * ;; I I arrogant tone. ,Fle,,,sp4a.aurc, was, a bad judge, oc, ~, 1 his own defects ; but 9,,ar is he knew himself, be , did not believe that improper bolduon or arrogance belonged to his character: Whether It did or not, ' he left to the House to judge: [Load cries of hear, hear t] It might - happen that, .sometimes in . the warmth of debate, and ; .in tae eagerness. to make himself perfectly heard and understood, he might raise his voice a little•loudet than was abse. • lutelya • etessary, to convey his sentiments to all Pirts of the Howse ; but if this was_ to be con. calved a proof of,aTroganee t the HoopurableGen, • demon himself would- hardly escape the impala. r ‘•. e;jl. l •4 . 4-.•1 1. - .°.rz . rttl Ils.l I I Der ou I i I we pI. :on le i rabl rhic put ig I PI etiJ ion m ei( ion jag I r