The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1808-03-01 00:00:00

' formerly rewarded for although his situation was ' lucrative, and his opportunities of acquiring wealth were frequent in occurrence, yet he returned from his splendid achievements, without having saved sae shilling, but w , at arose from his pay. We had only to look to the brilliant services of the No ble Lord at Limielles, to feel the benefits that Lad resulted from them. Ile sincerely wished, that in eases of this sort we should look to the merits of officers, in plipming, as well as iu executing, sehievemena, which materially benefited their country. Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that the small sum proposed, in addition to the annuity, Will in tended for the benefit of the daughters of Lord Lake. General TARLTON bore testimony to the splendid military achievements of the Noble Lord, and approved highly of this mode of rewarding men who hail so exerted themselves in the sea ice of their country. It was the means of giving them that military pre-eminence that led them on to ry. There could be nothing, in his ro,,inion, honourable to that Noble Lord's character, he returned from India poor, and died As to the proposed monument, it had ' there was sot army than the disagreeable sen but lie did it argument that had Lake's poverty was this, that if any - the servi4e of his lucrative they were to He should for . and merits of arguments used that had been made. - Noble Lord who conceive there gratitude than opinion, Lord i to this cairn .anees that had Ins' family to chewed that he creditable to He trusted, ho•.w . sutler his children honourable poverty. •‘ testimony to ti,e - of the Noble !meats of his charities, and I in the same extent which it the observation, m made sooner, that so long es of such 'lmola that hedi:- _ further rewards withhold his just his opinion, a country. ►ie proposed to be grant - • - unseated him w, but his un whose duty it what they coaceived with greater ipporting this n otion, d to the gratitude Lord Lake. He • merits of Lord thinking, that the India, were of country, and wonutneut winch was rise 'to opposa fired, that the pleased to con. perfectly sufficient. It for great serficepi, orna encouragement for mill -versa''y in our army. :ts of the cu-e stated, before con.fituents. Lord Lake had --e. yet he under stoOd . had brought home with him from India shove ,eloo,non. The task was always invidious sod unpleasant to an individual to oppose such Motions for rewards ; they were generally car ried, as it were, by acclamation; foot in inch male ,, it would be more prudent to appnint a Committee to inquire particularly int..r biel4, be fore they were submitted to the House. The - ac to be the (list and the acquits west wily in re irrements. Those who 'ly independent, agree to the :no . girt to be made grants, without in fects and cireunt- /hen Lord Lake considerably m ile went there in creditors. Great . home WWI in fact not receive much burdened with of any kind from the people of this country, ought to be such as that no man need to demand what those services were. They ought to be such as /big throughout the world, otherwise they ought net to be brought before this House. In the present situ ation of this country, and the situation or the 91bo. pie, I think that there should be even something more than what may be called extraortEtfary We iner, to entitle any individual to extraortfinary re wards, and upou that ground alone 1 shall think it • my duty to object to the motion of the Noble Lord. • Now, upon general constitutional grounds, I also object to it, the more strongly, because I find that His Majesty has ample, and wore than ample means of beidowilig such reward" for merit, without coin ing to this house, supposims•we were all agreed as to the realiouablenese of the pretensions. It lied been long thought to be fit and proper that the King should possess the power of grunting pensions; and, for the same reasons, the means of doing 60 had been deposited in His Majesty's hands from the Civil List. Shall we then be wasting and squan dering away . the public money for services that uo not meet the light of day, but which may probably meet with the reprobation of the people ? Being convinced of the general impropriety of such con duct, I shall take the sense of the Committee ; for I conceive, that were I to do otherwise, I should not be attending to the interests of the people of England. With respect to the service++ ot Lord Lake, they have been remunerated already in a manner that any Officer ought to have been sat's tied with. Was it possible for that Noble Lord to have expressed his opinion upon the subject, I ani sure that neither he, nor any man in his situati o n, would have approved of making tohim, or to his fa- Tully, any further provision, at the burden aud expenee , of the already distressed people of this country.— If the merits of Lord Lake have been great, 1 think the merits of the people have not been small ; and I would ask, how they are to be rewarded for the burdens and difficulties they have already sus tained ? have they uo price in the eyes of Miusters ? Sir, the people of Great Britain caunot meet with any reward for their merits, but by the watchful jea loney of this House in preventing their substance to lie wasted in rewarding pretended services, such as those that have been stated. They have a right to demand a vigilant amid esoilomical distribution of leer:trill, when they are to be paid by money arising frent them. I blink the merits ot the people of England, for undergoing ankh privations as they have undergone, are not inferior to any individual whatever ; and upon these grounds I shall not only negative the Motion, but take the sense of the House upon it." The Cu Pi:I.:LIAR of the EXCHEQUER •-••-" The merits of the Noble Lord have been so generally acknowledged, that I shall not say much upon that point--'est there is one to which the Hon. Baronet has itst now alluded, to which I cannot help ad verting. I shall concur with him in thinking that the people have a right to expect from a vigilant and eroumnical attention to the distribution 9f their mono. But Ido not think that we can convince the public that it would be true economy, either at this time or any other, to visit with parsimoni ous rewards, those services which have been ren dered them. If we be in great peril and danger, this is the moment when the House should kink, with peculiar anxiety, not to let gp bye any fair ' and proper opportunity of rewarding distinguish ed services ; and, therefore, whatever may be their oppression at the present moment, such motions us the present will never have the effect of leading them from a just view of the subject. When he represents the people of the country as endu r ing great privations, he does not press any consider ation that bears upon the subject in question.... But he says, that it is improper to vote these sums, at the present moment, as the King has such am ple and unexampled means of bestowing such re wards. What those unexampled means are is to t/illy uaknown to one. I presume he does not make these observations, upon this point, without know ing the limits to which Parliament has confined them. It is well known, that His Majesty cannot grant a pension nut of the Civil List exceeding bOO . a year, and that he is also limited in respect • of times, nut being able to grant it bevoiiil his own life-time. Is it to this extent that the lion. Baronet is to look to rewards for meritorious services of thi. description? This, I think, should remove the ef fects of the lion. Baronet's observation." General (;escoi Oei le said, the observations of the Hon. Baronet were only calculated to excite tVs content. Mr. Humes —" I am (lei - irons of stating the VieW in which I consider the motion now before us. feel it impossible to resist remunerating the meri toriotis services of a tnilirary man, although I am as desirous of a parsimonious expenditure as any mail. I perfectly ic t ree with those lion. Gentlemen upon the other siilo of the House (the Minbtlerial rifle) that the bestuvoing such rewards is in many instances the best economy. So far from denying the merits of Lord innAt say, that no man had ever a greater call for gratitude and remuner ation front the piddle for his brilliant services and important successes. But, Sir, while I say this, 1 maxim, at the slime time, avoid objecting to the re trospect with which this pension is proposed now to be gi anted, as it is absurd to make it attach to a pe riod, during which, and the life-time of Lord Lake, it was not thought expedient, under all the circum stances, to bring it formers!. Its not having been done before makes me doubtful whether it would have been poisihle to have induced the House to convir in such en allowance, under all the circum stances, immediately after those services were per formed. Although he survived many years, yet no idea hail been made for this grant. Another plot think also objectionable, and that is, in carrying it beyond the next immediate successor of Lord Lake ; because I think all dnc consideration ought to be strewn towards not burdening the country. I cannot help recommending this to the consideration of the Committee, as I think the bestowing of • Peerage ought to go a considerable way towards re muneration for services. But it was highly im proper to bestow Peerages, in any case, upon those wlea are not in situations of previous independence to maintain them. An undue exercise of the power of bestowing Peerages, only tends to make such persons become pensioners upon the country, con trary to the principles of the Constitution. y It hes happened to me, Sir, to review the pensions that have been granted to perserui of distinguished rank, and there are many granted under such circum stances, theft wish they did dot exist. As to the monument to Lord Lake, I cannot fprove of it being etecteint the expense of the country, it hav iug may been usual in cases where officers have &Is* len in aetiots, or recenied wound& in battle, which ' have ultimately terminated in death. Ido not. . knesi any exception to this rule, but that of the monument erected, or to be erected, to the late Lord Howe—but I wish the House to return to its former mode of proceeding upon this point." Lord Geonost CavenniEn approved of the mo tion, and entered into the praises of the Noble Viscount, as did also another Honourable Member, whose name we could not distinctly ascertain.. This last observed, that, although lie approved of the motion, he should wish to see the Patronage of the Crown abridged, and put into the hands of the people. TheSECILETARY at Wait spoke favourably of the conduct of Lord Lake, and supported the motion. —He approved of rewarding merit, by the confer ring of a Peerage, and thought it was but reason able to support its independence. r.fr. TIERSILY-•-•" I should not have given my opinion at all upon this subject, had it not been tiir the wide which the Hon. Baronet had expressed of taking the sense of the House. Were this mea sure to be acceded to silently, I ens afield it may go forth as the practice of this Hous e , that we will consent to the granting of money rt:never it asked. No such charge, however, shall be made upon me; I agree with the Hon. Baronet behind me, that nothing van be more strictly our duty, than to see that all gouts of the public mo ney be made with the utmost economy; but stilt 1 do not think I ought to hesitate as to whe ther liana! reward services rendered to the country by a party whose merits are known and are stated. The great question before us, is, whether or not Lord Lake deserved what is proposed to be granted? I cannot approve of that doctrine that says, because a nein has got a Peerage bestowed upon him, he is thereby entitled to have such a pension conferred upon him as should render him independent of the world. When such a case as this arises, lam not precluded from opposing it. I do think, that toy ' Lord Lake did deserve the Peerage bestowed upon him, he having most honourably earned it. Now, as to the necessity or justice of the war in India, 1 am not called upon to decide, but merely to de termine whether Lord lake, as Commander-in- Chief, and as such, placed .in a high and re sponsible situation, performed his duty well?-4 believe that no officer ever conducted himself with greater integrity and honour than he did. It was not merely the conduct of the war, but many dif ficult negociations in which he was engaged, and by which he had rendered important services to the ' country. Upon these grounds, and on account of, his reduced circumstances, •I have uo hesitation in voting this sum to his twirl. I think the answer of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as to the power of the Crown to bestow the necessary re wards for merit, ought to satisfy- the Hon. Baronet as to the impossibility of its being sufficient for that purpose. As to the monument, I should wk!) to see that species of reward only bestowed upon those who fall in battle. I do not think, however, that by the House overlooking that part of the proposal, the utonnusqnt will not he at all erected. As the services were principally reit"- &red to the East India Company, they, upois taking them into consideration, would certainly not hesitate to erect one. I would fain hope that the Noble Lord would not, oh that account, press that part of his motioo s and that the Honourable Baronet would not persist in taking the sense of the House upon a qucition which Steins to meet with so much of our concurrence." Mr. WILLIAM SMITH also expressed his wish that the Ilonostrahle Baronet would not take the sense of the House upon the question. Sir FRANCIS BUIDETT—.4 I think it necessary to add a few words more, in order to state my reasons for not acceding to the opinions of those Honoura'.le Gentlemen who wish that no division should take place upon the present occasion. The Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) chooses to misrepresent what I stated as to the rewarding the people of Eit A land, and what I stated as to the Pension List. He stated that the only means possessed by the Crown was a very small patronage for rewarding merit; but I believe 1 nerd not go out of his own family to find that the Crown possessed ample mesas of rewarding very extraordinary merit. I do not pretend to give en opinion as to its being real merit; but when Ministers comedown to tell us that the funds of the Crown are at an end, I should then certainly agree to reward services out of the nurses of the people. This, however, is certainly not the ease ; but when any officer of merit is to be rewarded, his ease is brought before this House, ■nd we have, under such circumstances, the un pleasant task imposed upon us, to oppose grant ing that which may be due even to public services ; ' we must int - Prappear to act with mean econmny, or else impose unjustifiable burdens upon the peo ple. The Hon. Gentleman below me (alluding to Mr. Tierney) has taken pains to state, that he, by anticipation, wishes to disclaim any part of my po litical sentiments. To this I can have no objection ; but I shall never have any difficulty to date my sen timents to the Muse. when 1 tun conscious that I do so with no intention of turning out this or that set of men ; but that I am actuated only by a strong, eager, and zealous desire to perform that duty which I think myself peculiarly called upon to perform. Having said tints much, I must beg leave to add, since so much hat been said of the merits of Lord Luke, it is not my business at all to detract, standing as I now do, upon strong consti tutional gronds, from which the Hon. Gent. below shall 'sever remove me, by saying, 'that my observe bons do not apply to the slut-dims before 'tne House.' I will not be obstructed in any arguments pecu liar to the case before us, whethel they be antici pated or not. I must say that the services of Lord Lake have not been of the description of those of Lord Nelson. or such as to call for the gratitude of the country. I do not think 0114 his merits, Ia they what they may, have gone unrewarded. I believe, that if one-tenth part of that reward already granted were bestowed upo.: the military profes sion of this count 7, you would have more real mi litary and meritorious men. After all, them, what have been those brilliant, es.tmonlinary services of Lord Lake in India, that we are called np, th %- reward ? Who Is he titre: ever went to India, th at did not return with an ample fortune ? I will not talk of failures, or in any • manner disparaging% this officer, as it is not the peculiar questi 4 we are called upon to decide, but I %a, tt upon broad, general, and constitutio na l ground's, and I sty that unless Ministers do th ati.4 to put an end to tin' patronage or the Crown, sli c k is not brought before the public, I shall n ot , front any false feeling, or from any representatior s o a iiiitardly spirit, refrain Hui guarding the put, he purse. I shrill not allow myself to be dive r r a d nom my: purpose, as I feel it to be my deny to the people of England, to take the sense of th e House, although. it be but an expression of whin is perfectly well known: I know of no occisiom why the lion. Gent. below should be so an‘iotis ts guard himself and the House against any esor. sons that might fall from me, or that he should fear lest he be suspected of acting upon this OCC9. sion from party motives Inure than upon at.! other." Mr. BIDOULPII stated his sentimeLts shortly against the Motion s ab he thought there I.s sJf. licteut ability is the Crowu to giaut the LeLe...sary 'reward. At division then took place upon the Question of the Grant of the Annuity, as stated in His Alajes. ty'a Speech, when tnere appeared— For the Grant Agaiust it Majority And another division upon the ltetrospeetive when there uppeared— Ayes Hats Majority The Resolutions wee the& agreed to, and the House resuuteil. MOTION FOE PEACE. Mr. liTarruattso--" After the very lengthened discussion, Sir, which Les already taken place on the subject proposed by the Noble Lord, I hope no other business will, at this hour of the night, be pressed on the attention of the House by the Noble Lord opposite.- I beg, from thy patience of the House, some small indulgence, • which, considering the circumstances of responsibility under which rise, I have no doebt will be given mein proportion to the magnitude of tbequestion under consideration. The Commissioners who pronounced His Majesty's speech on the opening of the present Session have admitted that the present crisis is awfully ha portant, and probabty preipaut with the fate of England, and the cause of independence iii Eu rope. If such be the state tif maim totter on the verge of a precipice 7-4 the least possible deviation from 'true policy and propriety lead, in the apprehension of His Iklajeirtj's csrafides tial agents and advisers, to inevitatile ruiu, direly we should be wary, eircemspect. or.cl;:eantitaiii, to fornong to otteselvee principles of ictlim, and yet more so in reducing fliem• to - practice. No tine should he lest, no opportitnity negkuted of impress I alone se uution of this country, and estricatin4 hat from *be etiziestl state in which her foreign relations have git length Involved her. While the Govern ice-neat' the country admit that no step should be token uuadiesedly at the present peeiod of Imps rattled clanger, they hold out to the nation the prospect, thet even this miens may be prodartite of Inc most importatut advants:;es to the country. thoiigh I cannot so yeti understand the latter as. sertiou. I feel the whole force of that which states sue deuger, and our well-founded apprehensions. That dsuger must be indeed evideut to all, if at are .till to pe..-se‘ ere la the imperious and of entire t.ine adopted by His Majesty'sMinisteis toForsieti Powers, whether enemies or allies ; a tone ea:, u leted to excite either conteuipt or revenge, in pro portion to the estiai,:tiou iu a hich our national strength is held on the Continent. Moment ous, indeed, is the present crisis, in this view of the question, and tremendous the consequence's to he apprehended from a perseverance in those prin ciples we have hitherto- maiutained.—l have, Sir, beau induced to choose the present as the best pos sible tune which has, within the present session of Parliament, presented itself for the discussion of this subject, from two considerations. The first is, that by the repeated applications of my Hon. Friends around me, several of the necessary pa pers for entering into such an investigation have been laid before this House. The next, because there is very little probability, from the determined spirit of opposition displaed on the part of the Ministry, on a late occasion, that any others will be granted, let what 'All be the argutneats ad duced to prove the necessity or propriety of their production. On these, then, such us they are, it in necessary . to proceed. Ws have no alternative, hut that of deserting altogether the public muse. It has been said by the defenders of the present men in Ices Majesty's confidence, their conduit had been atria l•; proper--their measures just ; bit this species of bold defence rested solely on asser tion; and while they asserted it was absolutely in their own power to justify the line of policy pur sued towards the nations of Europe, by exhibiting proofs of the insincerity of some, the hostility of other*, and the acknowledged weakness of tit, they stran"ely avowed their determination to Tie fuse stir one of those documents on which they admittiel the proof of the justification depended. While they, iii His Majesty's Speech, admit the dangers and perils of our situation, there exists no spirit of concession or conciliation whatever. — hilt. the sense of the untion .is espressiel ants the most respectable members of the community in petitions for peace, preferring a prayer for re bee from their grievani es, with !het Misderation. temper, • patriotism, awl dental forbearance. which marks their conduct es beyond all praise, they have vet again to learn the bitter lesson. that they shell not derive from this caustitittichial exertion of their pi ivi trees, the smallest redress, the faintest hemming of a most rensote expectation, the slightest alleviation of a-htirden already insupporta ble, and rendered every hour mom galling by its continued pressure on the jaded and depressed spi rits of a suffering, uorepining, and hems ',abet!. To such I'etitious I sins sad ever have been, friend. To the avowal of suffering, and She pier of the distressed, I cmnot tuna a deaf ear. therto they have not been treated with isouteinet In the late war with America t:.ey been 1---• - r glory. There could be nothing, in more honourable to t h at Noble Lord' than that he returned from India poo honourable. As to the proposed wount his hearty assent, as he was conviiir ed tl a greater idol throughout the whole art late Lord Lake. Lord FOLIIIITONE said, he felt disag cations in opposing this Resolution, b upon general grounds. If the arguint been used as to the late Lord Lake's good for any thing, it must go to this, person who had ;signalized himself in tli his country, should, notwithstanding I. situation, die, leaving his family poor, I become a burden upon the public. He bear discussiag the general services an Lord Lake, as he had beard no argurnei could justify the motion that had been Earl TEMPLE differed from the Nob' had just sat down, as he could not co could be a greater chino to public gn that which bad been stated. In his op Lake's having returned from India ti try, and dying wider the circuidstant been represented, not only entitled I the considerattou of the public, but slit had acted in a manner highly creditable and honourable to the nation. He tr ever, that the lipase would not sutler to remain in such a state of honourable Mr. SEMNER contributed his testin • eminent services and qualifications o General. It was true that the emolua aitsatiou were great ' • but his plicate el his generosity to the Officers eis„^aged service, exhausted his fortune to an cal would be difficult toaseertain. As to the that the application might have been he should miry remind the House, tha Lord Lake was in the enjoyment, of meats abroad, his disposition was such, daned making any application for fur at beam Thill iodination to within claim, Rare C.o. Noble Le..al, in hi voter title to the gratitude of his ce even thosight, that what w4.s proposed ed was not sufficieut, and nothing Pn ink moving for a greater slim/lance. wiMgisasa to interfere with those wl 10114 to ouggeA and propose what es , proper upon such an occasion. Cola:lel WOOD said, he never VIM! ' satisfaction than he did in supporting for if ever there was a man entitled to and esteem of In. county, it was Lord was unwilling to detract from the me Bowe, but be could not help thiuki heninetit services of Lord Lake, in It infinitely ...rester importains to the c well entitled him to that inoimineti proposed to be raised to his memory. blr. W. Surin said, lie did not wit the Motion; but he certainly ccaiceiv honour His Majesty had hen plea fer upon Lord Lale wits perfectly s was an appropriate reward for great sufficie:.t to promote }hat encouragen tory exploits which was so necessary Ile thought, however, that the factt ought to have bean more clearly it they voted away the snooty of their Although it had beeu said, that Lo Daly left to his family ,t'to,ooo, ye stood be had brought house with la w • qnWii' of fame and renown (eight to lie the rim reward sought by military lan, and the avgiiir- lag of a l'errage ought to gn a great way ire ie. warding any splinnlid achievements. Those who had Peerages should be undoubtedly independent, a id it was therefore that he should agree to the mo- tion, although he did not think it ought to be made a patrol rule to make such grants, without in- quiring particularly into the facts and circuoi- obaces attending each case. leer A. Wt ttEster said, that when Lord Lake went out to India, his affairs were considerably em- lbansissed—and he rather theright he went there in order to enable himself to pay his creditors. Great part of the money he had brought home was in fact ee bestowed, sod Lord Lake did not receive much some than 30,0001. leaving his estate burdened with 4001. soot. _ WIIIITIMEAD added, that his objection wu talipaNz t asto the voting the monument to Lord u did not, however, approve of putting this slabs upon the footing of poverty. The great Doke of Marlborough wu in reduced circum- stances, yet it was not his poverty, but his services that were stated as the cause for making any grant to him and his descendants. Mr. LUSUINGTON approved of the motioa, and thought that the additional 10.CM:would be well bestowed upon the younger children. Sir Famous BURDETT—fi I beg to enter my protest against this motion, upon two grounds ; the coo af a public nature, and the other particularly applicable to the pre.sent case. I must say. that those services that taus have say pretensions to rewards ii