The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1821-03-17 00:00:00

luterecense had existed sines the Reva!ution, in no one instance since that time had it been used fur factione or political purposes. The Pope Lad always hitherto held the right of appointing the Bishops. In no one in stance bail the Pope been known to exercise that right. He admitted, however, that there might be a reasonable appre hentioa of danger in the minds of many good Protestants which ought to be satisfied. The Bill had provided fur that danger, whether it existed in idea or reality. He had Lentil great difficulty iu determining un the means. At first be thought of establishing them in the mode of nominating the Bishops ; but there was great va riety of opinion as to the best and mat proper mode. There were three different courses of nomitia. t uu which had beee adopted at different time. oue was for the Bishops of the proviuce to nominate; the second was for the Dean and Chapter to succeed on the occurrent.. of • vacancy; the third was for the parochial clergy to nominate. All these we.t to the exelusien of the au thority of the Pope. Ireland was indeed fast rising from that state of dependence on the Papal authority to which she bad formerly submitted, and might be looked upon !is be in the same state of public mind es England had been jest pinions to the Refoomation. The Pope hail so more esteem' over the Catholics of Ireland as to the Opine station of their Bishops, than he had over the appoint torahs of the Protestant Bishops marl Clergy of Eug laud.. , hla. bail framed • clause, however, tu beerfit the siraples of all dame who bed doubts or fears us the subjret,ohi.:h prescribed au.oath to be taken by all persous iu teltgiouts orders atavism Deesslun to hold any iiit-rcutiese w .the See of Boner,• that such intercourse should be con fined str ictly to ecchrstasheal snaliers; ii ran thus .-- •• I, B do sweat, that I will never concur tu ur consent to &e appoirateient or consecration of any Roman Catholic Bishop, or Deane or Vicar Apostolic, in the Rumau Catho lic Church to the United Kingdom, bet such as 1 shell con seitottuusly deem to be of unimpeachable loyalty and peace abbe mouluct ; and I do swear, that I have nut and will sot hive any correspondence ur Communication with the Pope or See of Rome, or with any roust or tribunal esta blished ur to be established by the Pope or See of Rome, or by the autharity •f the seine, or with any pinion or persons authorised or pretending to he authorised by the Pope or See of Rome, leading directly or indirectly to overthrow or dieter") the Protestant Government, or the Prutestauf Church of Greet' Britain and Ireland, or the Protestant Church of Scotland, as by law established, end that I will nut correspoird or eummuaieate with the Pope or Seco( Rusin, or with any tribunal established or to be este blerlied by the Pope or See of dome, or by the authority of the same, or with any prom ur menour autherizid or pre tending to be authorized by the Phpe oe See of Rome, or with any other Foreign Ecclesientical authority,en any mil ler or thing which may interfve with or a ff ect the civil duly and allegiance which is due his Majesty, his heirs, sad successors, from all hisssubjeets" He next came to the mode of appointing the Catholic Bi shops. The Bill of 1813 required that a Commission should be soma I na trepan of the Crown to inquire into the charm - . ter as to luyahy, .and ini forth, of the parties nominated fur s.caut hissopricks, and no vacancy was to be filled up until the Crown had rxpressrd its •pprohatiois or disapprobation or the nomination. He had myelin. d this provision, and c,.114:11.n in his Bill that the party should be eligible, mid the notuitiatiou shoed proceed. if afier a certain time the Covet, through its Cutramiseiunets, should send in no ex perineum of dreepprtival.,) He believed that these condi tions would Le cheerfully salseeitted to by the Catholic clergy. At to the statement (tithe Right Hun. Gentleman (Mr. Pe. I) respecting the dispesiiion of the Catholic clergy to comply with those ceedittears, the Right Hon. Gentleman had, though not wilfully, led the House into • delusion, by inducing a belief that the clergy, in 1813, had objected to a measure ,similar to that which be bad suggdeted. That declaration w Inch he had read did setrituy lbe right of the Crowu to Lu satisfied as to the uonsiwatiun of the Bishops ; it only went to mei Mgt it was contrary to the discipline of the Catholic Church lo determine on each • subject with out commilltig with the See of Rome, and that other. ire ILey wer•iu danger of perpetrating schism. But abet were the facts? Timel had consulted the Pope, and his answer ass, that there was nothisig inconsistent with the Jiscipliue of the Church in the proposed regaletious. The clergy Lad open this seceded to these regulations. It might be that they were nidefialt before that period, ete possibly they hod rcolaiond against them, but not since. Th. Right Hun. Gimlets& eoid, that when the Catholic Clergy of Ireland would come fierward and avow their inclination to accede to those meeposed regulation., that thee, and not till then, would lie believe in their concurrence with them. Bid it was not respectful to the Catholic Body, it was still less re s;iec.eul to the Legislature to require it to go about among the aut:jet:a of the Slabs canvassing fur opinions on its sera proceedings. They were to do right and fear uo ~stip/ewes. At first he had thought of domestic owning'. tionottaieb retold have satisfied his own mind; but on cons'. &ratios, he found that he could not adopt any measure of ' that character without disturbing the lutes eel arrangements and management of the Church. He had therefore deter mined uti adepting safeguards to regulate the intercourse with the /fee of Rouse, and to have a control in case ef De malty user that influential power which such • body as h e Eishopr of flit Catholic Church must be supposed to hale user their c.ingrcg .stiouts. He eseressed his auxiely with ell proper regard to the thieves, supposed or dill, which Ilse Constitution might incur from this uteamire, to legislate ou the must equitable sod liberal scale, because he trusted that they were about to cline this subject for ever. They had a right to provide ureic. rifles against the influence of a Poreigu State controlling, in some measure, the trffaiseof so considerable a burly of clergy. wire right to anke *nth Oroveritm, but they should out he made au at to excite a jealous feeling in the Cathulies, tint they weir no rely stipulating fur one advantage at the cur! astd sac,ihice of another. He hoped at the same time that the Howie would Mot he led to suppose that the (rem. n of the 11th had beep OW disingeituoes as to leave out those sureties *Cell* the ally nature of the Constitution would require in ittela a case. Ile assured the House of the whet lade which had induced them to do every thing with a view to settling utiailitne us assent to the measure. He ex persoed his readiness to accept any adva.slage which might tit left by the Bill, after the strictest mudifiestioos whir h should be thought isecesssary in the Committee, however partial reek advantages might be. If, fur instance, with ferpeet to legit appoinenseuts. the Bill 'tumid only lease the priyilegeof eligibity to Cathulic Barristers to be appointed Kieg'a Coronet, lie wunld out refuse even tint Won. If it wily at et to put English Catholics upon the canto as hash, he would accept it, though that would his en been a! all tu the Catholics of Ireland. lit hell elmweim Hie form of two Bills, as being more sena title ; but he caps issed his w MinnaA to roesolidete them, if the Cummittee 'tumid sus deride. There was one wpm tu which he adverted; be meant the prevision uh'sh it was purposed to make fur the Cathohcs. The lion. and teamed Gep:letnau opposite, who had given uotke of nit :infraction of this astute to the Committee, hut of whose amities he was unacquainted till to-day with the circuit:- eiances,fell fright ly. peebaps as to the propriety of providing Air .lie Catholic clergy. tut he questmueil the propriety of the tatition. He realty thought that this Bill, which ass a era sure to vesture Cathieics ru their rights, inlett tint to lie ac. compound with such cpcslitiusis ; because wben this mea sure cants to monk on the mind of the country, it "mall operate much better with the consideration that it bed passed as a matter of right only. Neither he nos- his Honourable anti Learoad Priced ought indeed 10.0 attempt that subject of establiabing a provision tot the clergy. It would lead to a suspicion that the clergy had sacs diced the hale peni!ence of the laity ie secures provision. He dAI out think that there was any one whu could sake such a prupueitieu without being speci fically aoluoised su to do by Goverinueut. It was taking fruit tbe Crewu an usrportunity of exercising that grace sad and format winch it was the prerogative of the Ciuwu flour la dispense. Thee. were facilities fur carrying this • AAAAA in; which aml amuse before existed. Queen Lino both was well dassamed to such a ptau of coaciliatioti, but her satentions were frustrated by the machinations of lareien pumice, amid the general turbulence of her reigu. Tare erector... 4 her immediate 'MeV Sayr. acme not inure Lemur able to sach a purpose; it had so bappeued that when there were Kimmel)* on the throne disposed to conciliate the Catholics, those Nlutiarclis were supposed out to be eery sell 2(1161(.11 to the cuuuuy. The reign of Charles I. had pal en end to all hope on the subject, and no good opportunity had offered itself, at least none equal to the present, fur carrying any such measure into effect. He wished to state one fart before he concluded. Before the in vasion of Ireland by the English, there existed in that coun try a parer system of religion than in England, and one which was entirely free from the corrtiptions of the Roman Church. Popery was aciimify introduced into Ireland by the English. He admitted that the soil was ready to re. ceive it, soil that it had become very prolific since. But su it was, that by the time of the English Reformatiou Ireland had become a completely Popish esthete,. The Re formation worked well in England, and, aniseed by the reign of Henry VIII., outworked the old religion. England had before that dislodged the old religion of Ireland, and set up Popery, and since that period had beta as earnest to dis lodge Popery without any cousidermioa of the lentioaable nes. or practicability of the operation. The Irish had been frequeetty instigated by their Chief. to return to their yid religion, *bile on the other hand their unfeeling conquerors had made their adherence to Popery a pretext fur diepoiling them of their property and estates. But wli it hail heen the coaduet of Catholic Ire. land f the Revolution down to this day? In Srotlauil there had brew two rebellion's in a century. In England there had been many civil dissentious sad attempts at ri hellion. Out there bad bees. no rebellion of Irish Catholics since the Revolution. The rebellion of 1688 wane p ru i es i •e l It was organized by the Pretestaies of the nerds of Irela,sd. Again, in 1796 the whole of the organized discontents were in the north of Ireland From Dublin to Cork, sod all over the west, these was slot one InAll found in arms. Ile concluded by expressing an ardeut hope that the House would not rob itself of the opportunity, nor the CIO% 11 of this gracious occaathu, of awakeuieg the itrimgeet ficeiegs of gratitude in the weds of hte Majesty's Catholic subjects for allow log them to rally round his throne, sad give their hearts and waste their blood iu givieg amenity to his e/overtimeut. He moved the Order of the Day fir the second reading of the Bill. On the motion that the Bill be read a second time sow— Sir %VW. Scut's' obs.lried, that after the Bill had been preseided and circulated umunget the Members for some days, and after thie, that Ilia Ili. lion. Friend (.11r. Plunkcii) had made some alter ationa in it, which lie:, with tell the attention he must always give to whatever fails faun his Right Hon. Friend, could not coaipletely understisnd, he could not discover the two aistinut propositions, cud 11:! would appeal, to the appreliensum of those around him, littler they precisely usidevotoost die manner us which the Bill was now prispomd. Ile would ask whether it would not be advisable to bring its a Bill containing all the alterations cu , „;gested? These alt.- rations appeared to him to b. 2 of such magnitude that the Bill could nut be Downied its its original Aim. If Po, then what course was to be pursued ? Wa. the fissuor to &sews a Hill that had partly been abandoned? Ile would, therefore, wish to know from hie [tight Hon. Fiiend, whether there were any other course lie could suggest ? Mr. Vim NKET'T was extremely desirous to satiary the doubts tit his Right Friend; but lie really did nut think tise alterations of that magnitude that they appeared to Isis mind. Ile might have adopt ed the ordinary coarse of moving that the House shoul,l go tutu a Committee; and when asked what course he should suggest ? he said, no other. Its consequence of the House bring crowded, his voice might not have been distinctly heard, and his Right Hon. Friend tnisittitlerstood him; but he certainly made no alteratnois, suds us could have struck the mind of his Right Honourable Friend so forcibly.-1 Hear, hear./ Mr. BANKER then rose. He was for some time quite inaudible iu the gallery, in comsequence of Members gutug out. He coufessed lie was surprised to hear doetriues broached on this question, Slot unlike those radical rights nod .lAiversat rights supported by others, ill whom he knew the Gentlemen who supported the - present pies- Imo were hostile. But it was his firm upiui 111 l , that if the Catholics felt a siugle spark of respect for their religion, they must naturally feel desirous for the destrue. lion of a considerable portion of the Constitution, the Pro . *imam Church.—(Hear, hear )—He hoped be should out be charged with a spirit of bieutry for thus speaking his sentiments openly, fairly, and firmly. For feeling as did, lie should de-ert his duty as a Moldier of Parliament, and be guilty of the deepest treachery to the Constitution, if he did sot speak his seutimeuts opeuly.—(ififear.)—He imputed no thiug to the Catholic reeigios but what the Catholic Church arrugated to themselves, and gloried its. They maintain the sole integrity of their own faith, and the fallacy of all I others. They held nu communion with all others; and consider salvation absolutely isupurenble for coy one out of the pale of their own church. lu fact they censider all others, as the Pope would say, liable to be excommunicated between Christ noel Raliol.—(//err.)--And the Geutleinen who support the Bill, although they do out gn the whole way in his fear", still they must entertain some fears, or why give securities at all? If there be that iubereet right iu the Catholics to those privileges, why make any distinc tions, or soy exclusiun sit all? Ile conceived, that greeting I the claims now demanded would be attended with the most fatal consequences. For what would be the consequence if Catholics got seats in Parliament Oue hundred meet, or even less, leagued together in that Howie, could do a great deal of mischief. They may, moil perhaps will before it is very long du so. A hundred melt hulked together ism that House might effect almost any object dor wished; and he would ask, whether it is not in the power of men of great we•ltts and property, if disposed to do su, to send into nay one Parhaiuent Member. to that amount ? No. thing could he snore absurd or foolish as to attempt to legislate for futurity, nor could he ever repose with 'meanly against the datirers with which he saw himself surrounded, on such miserable securities as were offered. He had heard the Right Honourable Cieutleniau who bronglikfurward the measure say ainnething about now end. ing the matter, and shutting the door against all future alitation ; but was it possible for a men of his torte of mind and habits of reassming to eutertaia such au opinion when hr perceived the line of conduct 'emoted by the Catholics after every concession; they are never tired of graspitee and every fresh cusicessieu you give them was but a step ping stone to climb to something more.—(l/ear, heir.) — And was it likely the Catholics should be itirliffereut urn these penile nu which moist others feel su lively; he meant their puuperty. C.erthiisly out; and whets these concessions were granted to dig m, they would aeon begin to grumble about supporting a Church which in their hearts they abhor. thee, could the Right Hon. Geniientao consider this as a per neinfut measure? There was another point to which he wished to advert ; lie meant the proposition of providing fur the Clergy. The Right Honourable • Gentleman de precalrd shot measure as premature, but the lime would tome when it would be ailvissble. But he believed that the Right Honourable Gentlernaii nor nobody else might give themselves the trouble fur if the Bill once passed you giro the Catholic Church the power of providing fur themselvec—((leor, hear )—la it so be suppose 11 that the people of England would not rumplaiss of supporting an other Church establishment •! But supposing sisal bolls the Bills passed, and that they are trj•rtrol by the Clergy, what then is the conageteace ? They .mild be then la this siitsa• lino—they give the Catholics the power of sitting ia Parlia ment, they provide for Use Cntliutie Clergy, and then they say, they cannot agree to the Security lath. You pita. Slit Bills—you great the privileges—and then you are left witliont any securities at all. Ile considered the extending the elective franchise to the Rumen Catholics as contrary to all the principles of sound policy. It ought either to be granted in the fullest latitude or nut at all, asset if it ware possible that it could have come to be oiscossed iii the English Parliament at that lime beMoutel ceriently have voted against it. Then It may be milted, why ant demand the repeal of that law ? Sorely that was no way to :ogee. Mauy thine ace greeted whirls are iseitidicieus, but still they cannot be welt taken hack, and this was one of his greater; objections 0 the yenta: ineathre. He utsjeeted to Ihe union on the same principle, blecante no matter what was the consequeuce of it, it cuttlil not he repeat " Quoddadi, rului , quad reliquiens est, eon demo;' am] unless you give the Eatbulies every thin they tail never be satisfied, our feel any gratitude. Notting will satisfy them but seats in Parliament; until that is granted to them, you give them mollies' they will think worth accepting. What the effects of such a euncession would be, he eude '- retired in the sincerity of his hetet to explain, and lie hoped sincerely the good stow of the House would protect the Established Church and the constitittiote from the dangers wi tie which he feared they were the remotest. —(llear, deor.) Mr. WILBERFORCE then p.m. [We reeket exceediugly that the very deprave; meaner in which be was occeeitmally heard in the gallery, prevesito us from doing that justice we Omuta swivel to his eloquent With]. He commenced by ob. serving, teat altbuugh he coull slot agree with the Hon. Gen tleman that just sat down, that removing the distbilitles under which the Boman Catholics at ',tested laboured, did at all affect the vital Misread of the constitution, yet he frankly cifitlemed that be hail lung redertained strong &Wilber un the subject ; bat it remained fur the wisdom of modem limes to discover that of all the persecutions that were cv, r inflicted, persecution for religious opinions was the moss foul isle and trucked of all—(Hear, hear)—fur is proportion as you endeavour to suppress these opinions, in precisely ihe same propurtiou will they increase. He was free to admit with au able writer on this 'abject, that if there were in a Governineeit suffievent power to extirpate all other re ligious opinious but elitist of the elate, then indeed there might be some sense its perateution. Hut if you live tie • country where every thing in the grubss and cheracrer of the people is averse to it, to adopt such • Ilse in is at once absurd and impracticable, and nu thing can tenthly be inure anomalous than' to endeavour iu barinowier perseeetiun acid the Beitieh Consiiediun.— ( Hear, hear.)—We know full well the enelaucieuly resume qiiences of this beei•fiel system in Ireland Ireland! Ire land! die very mention of that eater is calculated to awaken sighs slid sympallees in every hmase that is not cold to the feelings of humanity, for the burg and erne! sufferings she has eeterett.—( Loud cheers)—lt was at the peeintl when that forlorn cuuairy evjoy , d the •ppellatiten of the.' Mother of else Sable" eud petit:me no country in the wurli was in possession of greeter virtues, Mat she became Ibis prey of thy conquerer, •ud was hastiest over to cessliseatiu• and opmessien At the gulden era of the Revolution, the Guverioneni of this country acted memo's Ireland like au uneatenl step mother, and Mimed of being her protector, became her oppressor. Trace her history from Mat period to the priirot. Take away the reign of Amite of George I. and Genie I I. %I lien we reflect we the unjust treatment she remittal hum England during them pet weld, can we wonder that Ireland should look with abhor reoce oil ever, thitig British?—( (fear, hear )—At length we began to awaken (ruin flee delustuse and to grow ashamed of the laws that hail been passed. It is true they had a Pa. hament in Leland, but they bail uo free deli. Iterative power; and suet, was the system pursued thole, that whets any men was too preflmate here, he was sent to Ireland to be provided for—(Hear, hear.)—At I, teeth the Parlientele hersuie indepeudent, and substqaeut ly dm measure of the Union was ea...sled, by which the two countries, Intended by Gott - and nature to be united, each being too ;merciful 10 he indepem eat of the other, were bound together eu une e sneved tic. He remembeied the ern. timenis of his latitervied friend, now YU More (Mr. Pitt), en the claims of the Catholics. lie slid out think he ever heard him state that the atheuscioet of Catholics to power was the necessary consequence of the Union ; but he hal it on his recollection that lie •tid, Hoes that the 100 coined** are unite) ip tole indissoluble leedy, the Catholics haves right lo entaucipatime, and it can be geauted with greater security to this Country; uuJonbledly he sin cerely wished fee the seem. of the measure. IVutbwi could be inure impolitic and iodide Mau In keep tht Calker lies in the steuatium in which they edam' at present, and be knew iir smelting thud eunlil be devised to create die. cendent and dime, beoce II emi keeping the Roman Catholics as 'bey now demi. We knew the Catholics are detly *rives clog in wealth, and power, and consequence, and 'bat it is impossible they 'Mould remain for ever iu their present coo sleben. It 'Mould therefore be our duty to invite them to participate in the blessings of the Constitution ; they have hearts edapteel to the reception of &dish freedom. and may safely become the depo.itofiell of riSslitleitt wirer, *loch, *briber safely or not, they must one day obtain.—(Hear, hour )—For you cameo! slop the progress of wealth, which is every day Haematite% and must naturally produce pewee. Nothing could be inure unjust than these exclusions. Look to the profession of the bar, iu which a MU is generally the artificer of his uwu fortune. He is placed iu a st•t100 to see those around hint. No matter alias talents or groins be *my possess, no matter whet may be the extent of his knowledge, or the purity of hits character, be is doomed-to witness others, perhaps 'shuffles,. merit, pass him by on the road to fame, he is excluded front the honours and dis *McCune of bus profession by these acts of injustice—these misplaced penalties.—(Hear.)— Let e he Catholic* ioto Par liament, and then if they have any microliters to complain of, they have the proper mode to veil. redress. He wan uuc *ribose that never was afraid of granting them seats ir Pat-- hamlets!. If • Catholic, or any whets wire po d of bad feelings, ho would merely wish to bring them into that House, that they might learn to correct tittle errors. —(Mitch chearing.)—Advil the Catholic to Parliament, sad Ito will learn to estimate the blessings of a free country, where liberty is protected by law.—(Hear,liani!)— It will elevate his mind, expand his ideas, end liberalize hie feelings. Aud if there be any of that servile obediesee to the pasture of flocks still reinainine, be knew of ou way so effectual fur removing it as by lilisnntisyl hitA into tliat House.—(/leaf, hear.)—Let the Constitution have (air play, and its gates be thrown open, aud the Catholics will leant to awesome, the dignity of their own natures, and to longer re. mails a set of narrow mittiltel Loud chaera.)—Edw cattua,with all the blessings that follow in its maned now hap. pity spreading to a great extent, mid also i• Ireland, and the more the minds of the people of that country are iurormedebe more will they learn to abhor and execrate that risen(' of co ereiusa midi/evasion that has beets unfortunately acted *pun in Ireland..—( Haar, hoar )—lf his Hon. Friend conceives that he eau but protect the Established Church ou the ground he now occupies, he must say that he feared he lulled himself into a false security. The Protestant religion was • religion that did not derive its origin from ancient imposture; the more it MILI investigated and explored, the Inure must it be revered 4itel ieriptcled. It hail dr feinidadon in trite mo rals and national happiness , . There bate been undoubtedly many Catholics ornaments to Christimity slid to humau oa lsre—the illeserions Parra!, the immortal Fenelon, of whom be might almost say, he was a satut bent down emu Heaven to enlighteu and improve maukind by the nuttiness of his wisdom and the efficacy of his example.— (eecering.)—He therefore thought that if the Catholics were entauctomed, instead of viewing our religion with abhurrence and iou, they would lerok upon it in a very diffrrent manner. 'Fliey could not, while these restrictions existed, yield to conviction, lest their chatter millet be •t --iributed to unwerthy or mercenary motives. These dim; bilities then were alike itijuritess to both the Protestant mod the Catholic iutereet. P. rare-mem was oely productive of au alienation of wool. Three disabilities are but the relies of e. lung course of oppression, out of restriction, but of degradation. It is iu fact wearing the prison suds when at large. Ile would tlserefute sly, give them s h e British Con seitution—give them the Chrirtian religion, and you will iu the course of • very few years perceive the happiest results; for it a not in the order of human thugs that a generous, brave, a bash-minded, mid grateful people, would remain ioseserible of the favours bestowed on them.—(Hear, heard—lt is a curious eirtumstance to observe the thettue eine betweeu the two routetries. This is iu fact • country of law. Every individual, high ated low, is taught and accus iumed to submit his conduct to t h e !awe of the land teeth the most perfect coufidenee. 'ties is the ;Needier character. rustic of the people of this minify, and be looked Olson it as one of those happy circumstances ansougst many others that have raised this country,so highly favoured above I all oilier. ' to its present Is.sppioesn. But, uufortsauately, how different is the ease in heeded ! there the people have, by long habil, been accustomed to aim at resistance, not obe dience of the laws. Burt he had no doubt that, when they come to enjoy the !lineal effects of the Coustitutioa, a great deal of that acerbity which sometimes appears in their characters would be removed, sod the smite of grata tilde would beam on liseir countenances—ff . /sari Ater)— ' Therefore, notwithstandiug all theicaution with which he ap proached the question, and as many of his friends well knew, although it was a lung time before he could be induced to change the °pill/01111 he hut formed on the question; )et, now he felt (oile contideot that the course now proposed is the tru• road so the security of the counity. It will strengthen instead (..f weaken the religion and institutions of the country, and Will leSiOre their jest rights to a brave and geurruow people, to whom we owe tame llama gratitude Cad repay for the sp!eudid glories they have assisted MI to obtain. The Hoe. Gent lemsn concluded amidst loud applause. Mr. H. BATHUHBI' rose, bat from the noise its the House wit were not ab:e to hear Lint. Lord CASTLEREAGH requested that his Right Hun. Friend might be patirutly heard on a question of antis great inepo i t anee —th e country would uut be satisfied if it was nut fairly and patiretly digressed. bk. B. BA'I'H U UST said, that in his opinion Hon. Mem bers bad cutifoitudid She civil and religious rights of the Catholics together. The CalholiN of Ireland had obtained She elective franchise, then what was the cause of their dim. content? they formed only She smaller part of the empire, and they were fully represented by personr Iselooging to the Church, which forentd • part of the Slate. He did not know how a esthetic representative could defend the Con stitution as it stood. Gonad of the Church and State. The Right Honisurable and Leatiord Gentleman by his Bill did taut pruptiae that Catholics at the Bar should arrive le the highest office of their profession, that of Lord Chancellor, which admitted there was only to • certain eattnt that cotireasien• ought to be made ; theta would it n 4.1 be Lotter, if they could not ga the *hula leogth, to stop slurs they were? Time Right Honourable Gentleman, in a speech which occupied a considerable por tion of Limo, bit hum the re.tvated cries of " Order. or der !"—" near, Aear r was teaudshie itt the villas', res. eluded by moving that the Bill should be read a oecuud time this day six !11r. WI I.llElt FOR E explained. Mr. M ETCA IF E supported S it e Bill. _..._._ Sir JA 11 ES MACKINToSH said, it watt rust his intro ties} to go into detail to answer the argumeuts of the Right Honourable Gentleman who bad spoke■ last but two; it would be an act of fully, as they had hero answered by lips flaming with the greatest eloquence for the last 70 years.— What induced him to rise wall to call the attention of the House to the charge which had taken plate in the situation of the Catholics within the last 4 years by the Act of the 37th of his late Majesty. By that statute all former oaths taken by Catholics It. the army aud navy were abrogated; then as to the army mot navy,Catholica a ere oxem pied from taking !Itemise. 'riven Ida •rgume•t was, that if the army and navy were officered lay Catholics, what would be the Mager if they were excluded from Parliament and their civil rights? fur as the law, uuw stood, the Duke of Norfolk could not hold the office of a Jostice of Ware. What had been the policy of the Conditarliou to open the dimes of Parliament to mili tary aml travel officers? It was fur tie other purpose than that they might have ■ strong interest in upholdiug the civil establishment of flee mouthy. A standing military Corre a; any time, in his opiiiieu, was monstrous; but if they took away hum them their civil rights they would make theta moth dangerous. All armies were the enemies of operative deliberat big assemblies; mid what had they been doing? giving Catholics the right to hold the highest office its the aeut", •tad telling them they could nut hold the lowest uffice in the Slate. It was putting them in a worse situation than the solily of James II ; fur accurding to the present system, the military were placed at war with the civil power. li there ever was • contrivance of folly and of (letter, lhia was U. had been always of opinion that military and na,val officers ought to have seats in that UMW, fur they ought to make a part of themselves. They were now told of a eiew policy, that their gallant soldiers were not to partake of any civil rights. He would tell them they were bound to attach those to the State whom they had raised to the highest situadons in the army. There was, no fen feitute of the Cruwit except the person claiming it was • Catholic; thirst why tray the Protestant religion was •ttaehed to the State ? Would it nut be better to thy it was ant i-pupish, fur it might be held by a King belonging to any other sect besides a Pro teetotal, of he was not • Catholic? The Constitution of England existed long before the time•.( Titus Oates.—(Hear, hear.)—He had heard enough of Titus Oaths and his pre tended Constitution. Let them ce him that would for his Protestant Constitution; for his past tie would sooner applaud the deeds of a Reuell or a Sydney. Ac cording to the speech of the Hun. Member for Coale Castle-, the Protestants ought to be proscribed iu every Catholic country. The Hun. Member ought to arruigu the Congress of Vicuna fur equalising all religious sects in Germany, Russia, and Prussia; fur in none of those countries did a man's religion incapacitate lout from holding civil taro He had, in fact, come 200 years too lam with his logic —(A laugh)—for before the Act of Toleration, aurae. thing like that held out by the Honourable Member, might have been adopted ; but he was suiprised after near three centuries of refurniatiuts lie would set up his theories against toleration, It seas not for him to rescue the character of Mr. Pitt from the attack of his Hun. Friend, the Member for Carle Castle, who called his Act of 1793 au Act of folly; but if there were nut persons more capable in that House, lie would take it on himself to defend Mr. Pitt from the attack of his Friend, for the Honourable Member bad told them that he thought the strength of the Church depended un a divided adminietra -11011 ; but lie fur one did nut wish it to go out to the public that the disse•tions of the Cabinet were the support of the Church. The Church of Iri laud depended wily on the sta bility of the Government, but the Clioreli wf England and Scotland had another dependaure in the affections of the people towards them. After forty years of civil war in France it was silenced by the edict of Nautz, which restored all persons to equal rights in the State. This was the remedy taken by one of the greatest and wisest Monarchs; lie was told, if he only granted one concession soother would be asked : he then, in his great mind, granted them all at once. Yet the Hon. ,Mesriber for Curie Castle held up his opinion against Henry VIII. and Sully. The Hon. Member said, all that the Cathul.es looked fur WWI political power. Was it to be wondered at that she Duke of Norfolk should like to sit in the sat of his ancesims? or that the Earl of Shrews. bury, the de►ceudaut of the Couquei or of Agiucourt, should wish to be in possession of his political rights, •ad to have political power on an equal footing with his fellow Peers ? The Right lima Gentleman opposite (Mr. R. Bathurst) a s k. ed his Right Hon. and Learned Friend to produca o resolu tion of the Catholic Prelates of [edited that they would obey the commands of the Pope relative to this question. Such a resolution was quite mince sssss y. as it could not be more so than any counia in the empire issuing a reso lutiim that they would obey an Act of Psrhiameiit passed by the King, Lords, and COlllllllOO4. Although he eves a into. her of the Church of England, he admired Diesenters, as they were the that to propagate religions fereiloni, awl lie was convinced they would continue to du so by conceding to the Cethulics their civil rights. He d i d nut w i s h t i , speak lightly of those who opposed the claims of the Catholics, or the abolition of the Slave Trade, but he would say, that those who had slivers concurred that the claims ought to be conceded, ►ad the preponderance of the talent sad iutegrity of the country. It could not be a prepouderance of injustice ■od error ; if it was, be was happy to have beets one that had been guilty of them. The Hon. and Lessened Member then sat down amidst loud cheers. Mr. PEEL slid, he rose under considerable disadvantage, as it was his intention to take what was called the un popular side of the question ; lie hoped, however, be world be patiently heard, for it was a subject of such vital im portance, that the country would out be satisied st the re sult be what it might, without it was discussed fairly, can didly, and impartially. He believes' the arguments which the Houourable 6eutleusaa had addressed to them that night, to show the inconsistency of the preseut situation of the Catholics, were nut entirely new. He believed they were the same which were addressed to King William, and applied in a similar manner to file State of the United Pro vinces under his domieien. 'Mere the Catholics were ad. milled to commands is the army, but excluded from offices to the State ; and it was asked of him why be did nut remove that inconsistency ? to which be answered, '• that lac thought it would be extremely hard and unjust to raclude from corn. missions in the army meritorious Dieu, who, by their exer tions ansreereices, bad proved themselves worthy of ober, merely because they were Catholics; but that, rebid* the Government was is the heath of a Protestant Sorereign, it • • t' wa7 •• 0 • WWI not safe lo aloft Catholic, We , the elliff#lAl,ol l llW its 'fairs." Bat when ea late as its IBM ther, 7 4eisall3thia fur the Prolesteet Eetablishisent rendered them labseße. fif the admission of Catholics to any place of anthalty ese cifeir toted connected with it—wbeit they relaxed fru* dieiilt - A- Man, and consented to the Act which e, sea the =atm the Cathelier, littl e did th e y snippiest that the entee• rs sons arrive when that maven 11 would be made tlergtowell of further demands, and •eirged as an argereent in seaport of new claims. Bet was the view algal the Hmr. Geut. bed staves of that measure and its effects, the view which a as eutertuinete by the Administration of 1807, when they purposed a treasure • utterly 'loather ? The Right Hue. Galantine here praeredost to read fano the Speech of Lord [Nark us that ocearlete e. passage, in which his Lordship said, •' They had thongle atop inieht bring fainted that inearure enthuse encuunteratgase opposition with which former proceedings ea f f Hie Catholics bad beeline% because it 16as a qffe.tites-widthyaliwe• Duct its its mature, and nut at all iu•.,lring llic Reiterate principle of Catholic etustiripatiou." If, thew, he wuwitimoh at a later p. nod, the Goverunseat of 1817, reiltug iseiou situ arguments and professions thus pet forth, eureentsel to thee measure, was it fair now to come down oils's, nom and u• it as an areuenent far further maueseinuis ?-(CAters.:s With e• spent to what hid been aside"( the altered feelings of t he °our try on the eu Nen, it was title, as the Houuseralele Gentlanam had stinted, that for serves years they had been silent too evening it ; but he world beg leave to monied the Hose Gentleinan that it was only seven data sure these Bills weir printed, and it was premature to refer to the 'Once of the country as an argument of its acquiescence, wrtbnul waitieg until it had bad au opportauity of becoming acquaiand with the eiet•re of the proposed measure, and etpiexairng tts• °pirate). The Right Hun. Hentleinau wiser istroducest the present measure had accused him of • desire to offer abreast and stigma upon the Roman Catholics by these caelatenous ; but he bad only wished, in referring to Newer persons, 41, chew Stint a distinction lieJ been drawls betwom exclusives (coin office, sad the indicliene art- pmeidament for rel... gives opinions. Denying, as he dui, the right'. 'bleb the Right Hon. Gentleman aserrtee, of ai;ustasion in political power, he yet considered political exclusion M mss evil in itself, ao,lraetrdly considered ; fur it was impossible not to adapt that it operated as a discouragement to lauds bee. and generous escalope for the public service of liar country: Whets be admitted this, he aim admitted 'but ixeseenot sufficient for hint to substantiate it by reference tome:ern* laws, unless lie shewed as actually emitting sreceasityelmt: their continuance. behind was so fruitful a field of. eft\ - meat uo the subject, that be should throw the comae/ as.. tirely out of consideratiou at present. The question thee Ma bite to consider was, what would he the ace' of these laolis beteg introduced into Ireland, coupled as they mere wielr the maintenance of the Protestant Church ? The arguenems of the Right Hun. Mover was, "Skew me what are. Hu dangers to the Protesting' establishment whirls you appos e heed; there can be suite at any future time, whecte not exist at present, sad against thrm Leger you securitote:', What then was the stature of the measure which the Hiplet Huse. Geutleivali proposed? It was to give to the Rieman Catholics every qualificatiuu for power; and vest only an-- qualification, but in goose cases the actual posseasioo of -U. There were three cases its which putter was aCtwllyEiveu to the Catholics by this measure, which be cueseidered, as attended with considerable danger. The first war-sl% privilege, in virtue of property, to vole at pariah waiftate i By the existing laws the Catholic was d. bet iesl from eietinf at a weeny onetime use questions relatiug to the tor pair of time church, the salaries of the pariah edfiners, mod Hin appointment of churchwardens. This these was one piavilagn Watch would be opened to the Catholics, amid [ruin wine:* the Protestant llirseuters sere excluded. :flay would then admit the Catholics, who were to the Protestatite in the ff., portion of five no use, to the power of volley uu the repent of the Kitten:tat chinches. %Vithuut imputing to the human Catholic ony principle ethic's be would himself be &thawed. to avow, lie did nut hesitate to say that danger a as neturally to be •pprelweided its this t air, when such a power was coo l (erred on them Pa the prupurtion of five to one. These wad another power conferees' no the Rumens Catholic, that of eat, mission to ',Mee, which was of a very different &setae, duet would be depeudastt ou the will of the Exieutire Gu s verement ; but when the law was passed, he cousideredi it would be incumbeut on the Executive to give a bonaildit eiTsct to she intention of the Legislature. It would there fore be ustural to expect that the admission of Catholics and Protestants in place* of trail, warts bear; fate Mee portion to their relative numbers, ie which case the fiereneie must acquire • dangerous prepotederauce. 'them ( AMC ail admission to Curporat tuns and to seats in Pail:ametit ; and if all t h at had been mid were true, of the growleg wealth and numbers of the Catholics, the danger of this puaer was Lou . obvious. The Right Husi. Mentherinuceede.l to observe opou the advantage which the advocates of dee Catholics lead in the matured' the argumeul, from the radium so vivify and ge nerally excited against au exclusive system of any kind which, on his side of the eueetien, they were _necessitated let depend impute plain statements of fact. lit Ireland there weevil 100 Nlembers elected to serve in Parliament; and there exist. 4 in that country a popular form of election whisk was trot known here.-84 Members ae e retururil fur the 32 rutin: ties ; pixleeti were elected by boroughs, wh ci were some what of the nature of what were here called close borouglisi, sod the remaining twenty were relearned f OM large tows vivre the franchise was almost as open as iu the count:an. Thus eighty-four Members were returned from places ether e Ilse franchise was general. The proportion of-Catholic els our: to the Protestant he took to be equal to that of the cetera' population. Eighty-four members, therefore, out .of one lassudied, would be returned by a body of elevate of which the Catholics were five to one Prole gent. These gin . ..- would be subject to two kinds of in( • • . of them uatural sod just : first, the and concomitant with that-was the lord—and although the latter iuflueucs cf Protestsuts ' yet that was much thrall influenceminance of influence in a resident over landlord. It ni glut be said that great anra•ure possessed of ibis po , twitted tbal they were so, but tutu t to the medium through which it the law which provided that the Rei by Homan Catholic electors should resprct to the jealousy he felt of if:oiler, if the Constitution were looked be fuu'ud that wherever power we wisu ibis jealousy was manifested; sod JulTg himself ado, tied the principle, isi ‘icle be prapused. He proposed to exclude . , office of Judge In any of the Ecclesiastical Cour, ,silly obustAl thir Catholic he ex. laded from that office, Wallies StisC the cir citmstance of his religion reader him uofig to iliFei:s.:ge it • dories? Au Infidel m ig ht b o ld i t; a wors hi pper of Inpiterl • wuishipper of Osiris; a worshipper of the Ma of Hoa r ven ; a worshipper or all the creeping things of the seta might hold it; but by this Bill a Roman esthetic maid not. He mentioned this to skew that the Rt. Hoe. Gent. hill. *elf admitted the principle of jealousy ali:ch le .trratsusbill for, and that they only differed as to the velem' or OA •pplicati:sn. lu 'fah' would the presmislc of the Bill ovate, that the Protestant Er tablishrneUt as to be pc liallitslit mid inviolable, if they admitted the esthetics iota Pas !bimetal. When once in that Huuse, a Catholic might take a different view of this question, be might seek to rrisealthe law, asitrisenr could it be prevented, whenever their humbeis pr jabot. euce should reuder them equal to the aAtirapt.' Regolalitsuf were now proposed, whirl, were deemed 'lsecessary tor Al maintenance of the Protestant rerigiou ; lout Le Linsay be,- lieved, that if they were' passed at this time, they male out ✓emain hi existence five years.--He could nut kelp thinkitig, that one of the first attempts of the Csiliclits iss Parlismeec would be to repeal this law; and be could mot see why Ihey were to be blam e d f or it. Th e Ri g ht H uu. S pe Ike( krticred4 to illustrate bit argument by the cu-oper st.uu of fish Mew berm of all parties iu measures affecting the interests of Ire land, mid of Scotch Members, when Seutleud was concerned. Men in such eines would always consult the p r.tieusar in. terests in which they had • stake; it eilgtit out lie luite in the spirit of the Coast 'town, but it was petP Lily fair ass every principle ..f huroau nature. Ia civets where the m itres% of the Pioiestaut Chorch in Lela rd w-s con cerned, he elioold es pert to ere sloth J C.llllt 11141006, .. ii ' mod V. thought it might be expects() to •ucess ! e thought the eassener in which the oaths wer• teratest in lithe Bill highly dangerous. Is alluttiog to the sweotoestlif Mr. Plunkett, nu the sommaly of odo441.141• Cafirehe Mil- Bistrate by um form of oath, sad then casts:lig a net:stout • . WM - -311 ote.tant. The", tie' tors nflueuer, which we. e LA c influence tif the pri, •ts. e influence of the ism.- uce was partly cis the hands thrniuislied by i i arL .... : -._ .. ....4111 over that of a y ` the Cutbuliet . a If rower at pre . 1- . I they siert I 4, a was to be 1' ...zi;:tatd, Itir tt i , rpreseulatisi I. be CitYlC:ll 1 he a Ppite.tunt. trith r extectibut puu cr to Ca. oohed ilirrdacts it woultt ras bestut•ed, th ere e l su 1 ici the It litra.blurer t a the securities which tat le thew (rout the o4tice or Courts .Wlly shuritl th• 1 gm=