The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1808-03-18 00:00:00

I • 11 rmPfinizi. 4.IrEA 'ROUSE OF LORI. Ogaftepill . l'he Earl of St: rroLetealog tire Noble Serrctary of State iu hia Mare, ~ .sirlie,ArouN of ktius4 lug what, rrachi. could Ire a3...i;tit.‘.l Cur, Fur L anni fovea to hi, Nowa r'nearre (Lord liollat,4l Cation an a lOauer eveuiug, far certain intyorat, containing ware moat importantinforanitip Irmo oar late resitlent .Nlitlister at the Courtl'of ulark •As he eoulti see no lossiblo objection to the Ministers granting these papers, which had heel', he uuderstootl, given in Cis other Howe, he Loped, as a personal favomi soma iafonastion on that subject would be given him. Lord iIiAWRESISPRY replied, the chief reason frrr tint jointing the papers was, that they, he thought, would he of ao unportence or utility to the . tionae, since the Noble Persons whli had fir tf-attislied them had wit proposed to apply thaw to nay specific purpose or togruund env proceeding on the Commons they had been desninded Jar the express subject of future proceedings, Whirl:, however, proved ultimately futile. These e the reasons lie hail stated on that occasion to • • House, oad he honed they woirtel ore* satis .ctory to the Noble Earl, as they already had to the: Howie. The Noble Earl replied, these übjections were fir front salfieiant, in his mind, to bear out the Noble Secretory in his reload of the customary in formation. lie•clid not 11111114 tiff% vt r, to proceed farther iu the matter at present. whatever he might lk niclitied to do at a future day. The Lad of DEADY Said, * held iu his hand a Pctitiou from a most respectable body of men, the Merchants oldie town of Liverpool,. praying to be heard by their Counsel against the BEI now about to he read a third time fay the laying on duties fur the porposs of rendering effectual certain late Orders in Council. The persoos who signed the Petition; he said, were some of them his aequeintances err: friends, of the same principles id politics with himself, whilst others were of that party who had as constantly opposed those measures he had en:bantered as expedient and ad vantageous for the country. lie hoped the eon litioa of all parties, in a general applicatioe to Pr/e -lute:lent, wield have its due weight on the Hone, and incline them to listen to some arguments %Oast a naewaire, which, it seemed, it was the opt mon of the mass of the, mercantile iaterest, would terminate iu the tutabdutructiou of the coutsttirce of the country. i The Duke of MowTaose contended, that a m the preseat circumstances the petition could oet•be re steed, since the Order of the House bad hitherto ben to refuse to bear any Petitioners against a bill which propoessi I,..vyittis taxes or duties. J.f the Pens noire» were the,' permitted to pleud bt Counsel at the liar of the floes*, it would be altogether aniline tit: of the order of the proceedings of l'arliament. This opinion was supported by the Noble Lords 11 terift.:llMY and MCII.GRATR, and opposed by Lord Garevist.r., at considerable length, who eittsfessed dirt he haik previous to what had occur - • we last ttightosuppoved himself capable of deciding. • telerablvseedrately, oa what was the Standing Or. des of tfie /louse. He new confessed his ignorance, • sbei) must, he said, be content to abide in it, u..til tlitaloble Lords opposite condescended to publish titan aim system of order, as lately established by the Vete of the Mouse—a vote which he redacted on with sorrow and apprehension. .He knew mot how the Petitiouers could be exctudid from the privilege of being heasdassainst a 041,which.though it was ("intended was a money bill, also included a 'pitons of legislative provisions, not connected v.ith ditties. The Bill was either improperly fraMcd, or else the Petitioners were justly entitledto be heard. The Earl of WsirdoaLieD was surprised tb And tut Noble Boron so insions to admit the Aose»cati Merchants to be heard, when it was but a few mopths since the Noble Baron and his friends hail almost moved heaven and earth to exclude them from the privilege of being heard at the Bar by their Counsel tctrtinst the• American bitereourse Bill. He eon gintubted the Noble Lords on their new friend ships n“( 1 alliances, and hopes!, as they had been thangiutt ground for this some time beck, coati neatly, they would at length be fortunate enough to hit upon sqweethlog tenable. The loan CHANCELLOR ah,n spoke in snilport the dOctriue laid &ma by the Noble Duke at to commencement. Lord Avcst.sest was of opinion the Vote given the precedi.ig night by the Noble Lord Go Ibis ;ouleack, and sanctioned by the Vote of the Hoossc, would reflect disterace en the whole period /luring which that Noble Lord had occupied that dignified situation, *mien the general character of Parliament and the priuciples of the Constitution this country. The Loao'CAl Oil:EliX.:I rose and said. that he its ever sunbelts to Vibaiutiaus aselbaracter of con isteney, and that, he hoped, in the eyes of the not . anal posterity, the surest mark of his consis tewer would he, the personal refection made by be Noble Lord nu his ceuteuet ; namely. that the :ale Lord had said his (theCha•:-ellor i sl conduct steely' reflect eternal disgrace on barn used the con stitution of Parliament. Lonl AUEILAND rose to explain.---/ le entreated IC Noble Lord not to he so losto as to take sleace where none was meant ; he had not said a weed on the Noble Lord's coodoct, as reflecting lisgrart on his Perlinmentary life. The sent,- he had mowed lie amulet novertheless main- The EArI of Lnynson it r. in a re►c nnimated speeeh. suaintai.wil the lull ilegr of thel'etaionets n*ddrens the lines►. In this iie was •nliporteo. 14* by Loals tiOLLASU, Eit,klNLl. I)*MISLEV. and others. The question was then put fer hearing Cuut - 4tl, ell ne4atireil. Oa the •iwzire-tion of tie.. Loin CR/Act:LIAR, ttrl of Ilizativ tilos • I. " That Ow on the Table ;^ whieh was i. 1 40 leNutived with t any envision. The Esti of Iltentr. then presented it petition from the !Ime lexty of iiier..liants, Kali% to Ise beard by Co n ic{ :Kainst the peniiezions tendency ont l r tf i et of the l a te i)niers in Council twine ear rieit into operation. Ile stated, that by this Peufeet they hail eypeettril to be atilt to obviate iii otojPte ionte of furls, sieve the pra y er of the l'etitien to hit upon P. I oar al1t1:et& cornmeui Lora At!c:J • or: the prevel Wouleark, Hoosse, weul sluring %lite dignified situ Ir'srliament of thi4 coffins The Lim ' • • - sims ewer son st4tenry, and lion arta pop tent" , would the Sifible L Nola,: Lord would refier stitiition or I.ord Au( tne Noble ofijoice whet word on *hi disie•rart on Menai he hs tails. The E.4rl speech. 101 l to itddregs t igt.utt 1.0 and others. 'lir tines NIA ue„;:stir the :La tate I: trl 01 la.. oat the 1 • out gm thy+ The r...sr • from the heard 11% 1: am] rtfeet riest into op they haul e• hint of fun •1 i I against tfit general tei)deuev of Om Orders of Coniwil, and not against the . gill for raising duties, for die purpose of carrying 'those Orders tuto.ese- vatiou. 14urd.HAWILEzillURT did not know how this Peti tion could be lirosigil before. the idouse with pro priety, ►i:sce a petition could only Ise received as against was proceeding already Iseforu thy House. The former petition mid failed by informality ; this als.o, he was 'apprehensive, would fair from the sumo cause. A long alid deiultory =variation took place oo theipropriety of receiving this Petition. The Petition urns supported by Lords littliKlllNt LAUDEaVALE and GILLNVILI.Z, nd objected to, nu the ground ' of informality, by t he LORD CMAN• CELLOR. . Lord HAWKSSIICRY moved, " That the Petitiou should lie on the 'fable, and that the words " to be heard by Counsel" be struck out." After a long conversation between Lord Met- GRAVE, Lord Masterly, the Earl of DliallY, and Lord Gay.mvt tcs, the Motion for hearing Pe titioners by Counsel mit negatived, and tbe-Peti how ordered to he laid on the Table. . . . . _ Lord GISMVILLI presented a Petition from the American Merchants in London. similar to that presented by the Earl of Derby from Liverpool.— He moved 44 That it be laid en the Table. Oa the gamitimi being put . from, the Chair. it was awaited to. _ Lord Gaaattratts then staved, " That the Pe- titionera should be heard by sCounsel."—He ob served, that, from the fete the Petition from Liver .pnel bed met with, be bad little iinpes of success ; but if be could not oblige the Haut to bear Coun sel, he would demand that the Petition should, be rea 1, and in every fute of it there was argument strong enough to .hew the impropriety of the Or ders in Council. _ Loni sv:( 11 s av objected. . ).ord HOLLAND supported the motion. Lord EiIiILINE said, he would have recom mended to tl.e Noble Baritn who tresented the Petition, to have moved, that the Petition might lie under the table, instead of on it; for it would have answered as waste paper as well in one posi tion as the other. _• . . . Lord AUCKLAND said, that it was the iutentioa of His Majesty's 'Ministers, in sending the Bill up from the House of Commons in the manner they did, to prevent that House from having any is formation. Lord ELDON stated, that there were many ways in whi.h a motion might be framed, to enable Petitio.iers to be heard ISy Counsel. Lori GaswettLi: requested the Noble and Learn ml Lord to poiut one out. Earl SPENCER and the Earl of LAUDERDALE spoke to the same effect. . The motion was then put and negatived with out a division. Lord HoLtano presented • Petition similar to that from Liverpool, from the Merchants of Kings ton-upon-Hull, which he moved to be laid on the Table.—Agreed to. Lord EESKINE moved, .4 That the Mouse should resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, on Wednesday nest, on the Orders of Council. us recommended by His Majesty's gracious Speech from the throne, on the opening of the Session." Lord HAVIIIISRVET answered by moving the previous question, which was carried. The Earl of Lano•anaut. on account of the lateness of the night, anti the absence of a Noble Friend by indisposition, deferred his motion upon the commercial effect of the Orders in Council, to a future day. The Earl of DERBY asked, if the Petitions on the table would answer, in the event of a mode being hereafter ascertained, by which the Peti tioners might be heard by Counsel ? Lord If AWILLSBCRY answered in the affirmative. The Earl of LAUDERDALE requested his Noble Friends not to press the opposite side on the sub ject, as the puppets waited for the spring of the wire to be toucbrd by which they were to be put in motion. Lord LrcLts called, his Lordship to order. The Earl of t i aystatts•as rose, in explanation, and disclaimed all ideiof disrespect to the House. Adjourned at Twstma O'CLOCK. MOUSI or COMMONS BRIDGEWATER COMMITTEE, ■ALIATT6D TIM MM. t. Wilbraham Bootk, bn. T. Eloressk woe►, .q. Creme Litsekeit, Glair Onermitisk, Es q. lion Richard Stuart Lard Vise. Direrbiatteselt Sir J Cottrell, Bart. hogs Dims* Pi* slier, Esq. Lev.' Louvain, Sr Jetta Seleight, lost William Wynne, Esq. _ Nosoncrs. James Farquhar, Egg. Huts Edward Herbert. Sir CalßLcs Pates pens etted • rectified Petition how the Merchants trading to the Continent is Cottalswessl, is how of the Orders to Council, which, after sow shier ensisiss Roan Mr. Wiatotsta• and Mr. 1 . 111111111, wr erdered to be laid upon the Tat*. COLD PATH FIELDS PRISON. Mr. Suiststa rose and stated, that be had for merly intimated that he meant to make • motion upon this subject, should the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Sheridan) tint be disposed to take any steps as to the Petition which he had presented to the !louse. In doiiw, so, be did not nub to take the matter nut of that tt*ht Hon. Gentleman's bands, and there fore be tower wished to know, whether or not he (Mr. %eridan) meant to take auy isutnediate steps regarding it' Mr. Simatisait answered, that be only delayed, in order to nweestain if Ministers meant to take it up. for if they did not; he sliould.—So far from ahriaking from the subject, he could *sante the Honourable Gentleman, that under atandiog that he was intending to submit some thing to the Douse relative to it, he bad procured some of the Gentlemen who had signed the Peti tion to attend this day. and they could be got within five minute. from the time he was speaking. Mr. Seitil Ell observed, that as to the expecta tion which the Hight lion. Gentleman had thrown out, in, to 'Ministers bane , up this question, be knew that tin v had not Lien inattentive to the sii/iect. Previous to the petition being presented, tlie: been fotiiiingir commission. intending to act under the saactron of the Great Seal, and ompreed of tirmy metalt.m who formed the rtit1101:014).1, and ho believed that the delay tl.at I:ed Deemed :had been occasion ed by, the dilatlrinase. of those Who +ad ,been recluired to give answers to intetropitoriix. lie thought that the Petitioners had failed in their duty iu tlictirst instance, au litatiug that they were. (hand Jurpruen, whca, is inct: 7 their futetion* had ceased some days previous to their signing the Petition, and they bud only viewed tile prisoa as private individuals. Whet. they occupied the si tuation as grand jurymen,_ they were bound to in vestigate those abuses, an d to male a presentineut to the Sessions, which were fully competent to re medy the evil. They having chosen to pass over that opportunity, the next mode they ought to have adopted. was to make an application to the Secretary of State, and if he had dielined to ii.- terfere, then, and not till then, he (Mr. Stunner) thought they might have had a just ground fur be . ing heard at the bar of the House. lie did tint believe that they came there from any doubt that those other parties were either unwilling or inade quate to remedy the evils, but inertly fur the pur pose of gratifying their feelings, and rousing the public mind upon a subject which every one wr.bed. not to reiteo. The Petition, therefore, remained as a libel upon the table against the Magis trates of the Comity of Middlesex; and if any one was , entitled to respect from that House, it was those Magistrates, who rendered their ler vices griiii*ously, and who expected their charac ters to bejadged of by their work. It was in order therefore to clear their characters that he, was 811%• ions to propose immediately the most regulax and coostituttonal mode of proceeding upon this sub ject, namely, the appointment of a Committee by the House. He meant to move that a Committee above stairs should be appointed to investigate the whole complaii►ts as to that prison ; and that the Petition.uow on the table, ttgether with the pa pers he should afterwards move for, should be re ferred to them. did hot think it incumbent upon him to give individually an opinion upon the subject of•those charges, as it would come with greater propriety /nun that Committee. The first Motion he should make would be, " That there be laid before the House a copy of the report of the Magistrates of 3litidlesex, to whom was refer red a Copy of a Letter from Mr. Sheriff Phillips to Alaiwearing, Esq. complaining of the abuses that existed in rey,artl to the distribution of bread, sad the light weirdos, and various other grievances of the prisoners in the Cold Bath Fields pnson ; and alstt the Copy of any Presentment made by the timid Jury to the Sesgious relative thereto." The ('HANCYLI.OI of. the EXCHEQUER said, he did not think it would he i'roper to entertain such a Motion, for it would only make it appear as if Covernn►eut was not disposed to take the matte! up. The only cause of its not having been investigated sooner,was, that the Secretary of State did not think there was a sufficient examination or statement of facts, to induce him to make such an inquiry. One reason that a further examination h a d not taken place was, that the Member for Dorsetshire, (Wm. Morton Pitt, Esquire,) who was one of the Commissioners, had a ionbbetlety to discharge, in attending the Assize* of that county, and had de sired that the Commission might• not be set on foot till l►e returned. The character of the Go vernment was in his opinion as necessary to preserve as the characters of the Magistrates. The appoint uleut of such a Committee would be casting a sus picion upon Geveriussent, which was wholly unme rited, seeing that the House had already expressed an opinion, that the Government ought to have taken up this particular business, and redress the grievances complained of. lie therefore should , suggest that the House ought not yet to interfere, and that the lion. Gentleman should withdraw his motion, as being premature, upon this'occasion. Sir FRANCIS Buluntrr said, he could not coin cide with any opinion he t►ad heard expressed upon this subject. He entered his protest against the • doctrine, that these were grievances that ought to be submitted solely to the Government of the country. They were flat complaints of a trivial nor inconsiderable nature. One Hight Honour able Gentleman seemed to be of opinion, that the Petition stating those grievances being presented to the House, was casting a reflection upon the Government of the country ; while another Ho noarable Gentleman thought it his duty to vindi cate the character of the Magistrates of the county. These seemed to be the only objects in their view, whits the object of the House ought 'solely to be to redress the grievances complained of. The Magistrates of the county, as a body, were not at all Duplicated in the business. There were par ticular .Nl4, , ,iatratet, appointed to superintend that department, at the I►ead of 'chow was Mr. Mainwaring, who presided at Hicks's Hall, who alone had their characters concerned iu it.— The Petition had been tint objected to mere ly on account of muse informality, and next on account of wine alleged improper motives of the ?retinues% in wishing to make the booms& more public than was really necessary. What oc casion, he would ask, has the Home of Commons thus to be cavilling about words, as Lawyers would do about. flaws in an indictment? To do so, appeared to.hins to be a very harsh mode of proceeding. What reason was there to attribute impropen motives to the Petitioners, merely be cause they had not exclusively applied to the Sec. of State for the Home Department ! It appeared to him, that the House *lout was the proper tribunal wherein to constitute that inquiry. Ever since the year 1799, had not this matter been reposed iu the bawls of Government? Nothing having vet beeu done, he thought the House could not do Get ter than iinitittite a Committee of I ouniry. That this Committee was opposed he was not sit all asto nished at, after the quibble that he had heard used by certain Gentlemen, as to the Petitioners not being of the Grand Jars. The tact was n that the Grand Jury did actually demand peruiission to visit Cold Bath Fields prison, which permission they did not receive from Captain Drummond, till their. functions. as Jurymen, had ceased.— It was, however. well known, th;t they- were gen tlemen of respectability, who were summoned upon the Grand Jury, nod therefore entitled to atten tion, confidence, and respect, although their com mission under the King did set entitle them to go retrospectively into any inquiry. They had no power to investigate ail those shocking sc.t , nrs which he (Sir Francis Burdett) was able to uti,ty the House actually existed. They had only a Puwee to give an op pion as to the present state of that horrible prison, alter the Choler had taken cure to have it mouth to prepare the prison for !Erie ret-eptioa. Their report, howeso r, did y e Itligth of stating:. that no ate:it...sr was paid eithe r to ei:e orders of the Mugiatmey, nor to the know n and ez-tsblislied rules and regulatio...; of the pi i,on. They did state that every thing had been disci, rm i,a b y thi s Gsciei, %shy . set at nought the au thority, both of the Magistrates and of the blur. —They stated that they found false weight,, and innocent persons toothed in irons, ought to have been discharged by Proclamation. 'Grey found that this terrific Gaoler was in the habit of beating his )wisoaent, and of borrosiin g eusuey front those miserable wretches, to th e amount of I tool. and upwards; nay, they even found wore than all this, they found that this Gaoler was in the habit of getting bribes from rte prisoners, as he (Sir Francis Bar&tt) could prove, by reading an extract froth' the lieport (liter ' hear ! Arse I Not only were the Prisoners strew. Wined to suit their wants to the wants of die Caoler. but they weiw alas forced to suit their wants to those of the Oortraor's daughter (Hear I hear /wee!) He did trust and hope, that the House would, for mice, think themselves hound in duty, even against the opinitra of the Hight Hon. (;e u ti e . laan opposite, to investigate these matters, by the appointment of a Committee, who, he had en doubt, woold,take up a correct view of them. It wits but - enact of huntauity and justice, which wns important at all seasons, but peculiarly so and r the present circumstances of the country. Sir Cneants Patcs endeavoured to sheer that so far from there being any dbliciency.• there was cc. tuallv increased weight of bread ; and th a t there fore *what had been stated in Mr. Sheriff letter was not well founded. Mr. SHFRIDAN thought that this mode of pro. ceeding was one of the'usost extraordinary that ever had occurred. The Honourable Gentleman oppo site (Mr. Sumner) had first limn merely for the purpose of asking him a question as to whether or . . Trot he (Mr. Sheridan) meant to- proceed further in this business; and after receiving an answer that he meant to bring forward precisely a similar mo tion to that new proposed, that Hon. Gentleman bikes upon himself to sulemit the appointment of a Committee to the House. He (Mr. Sheridan) wished to have had an opportunity of proving the facts at the Bar, acting upon the instructions of the Petitioners themselves; but now that Hop. Gentleman opposite seemed to wish to take the business out of his hands. However much hr (Mr. Sheridan) might approve of appointing a Committee, he should certainly object to one al. pointed by Government, or by the Hon. Gent. who now proposed it. He could not deny that the la* Commission war composed of men'of respect ability and character, and that they executed their duty faithfully, as far as they had powers given them, but nobody could have believed it possible that Government would have allowed these abuse, to continue. or that Governor Aris should fe., been allowed to remain Governor of the Cold Bath Fields Prisop. Judging from this, therefore, was h , not to be jealous of any Commission appointed by Ministers ? Was he not entitled to think that a Par liaineutary Committee would be preferable to one appointed by those who bad already totally disre garded the iteport of their forme( Commissioners ? The Geutlemen whom he had seen this morning had had as yet no answer from Government, as to whether their complaints were to be listened to or aot, and therefore he could by no means pledge himself that they would be satisfied by a second Commission being appointed by the Crown. He could not at present attenn• to set the Ilan. Bart. (Sir Charles Price) right, who had pet into detail upon the weight of tweed, by any other evideare than a Report he held in his baud, which. in point of fact. corroborkted every evil complained of by the Grand Jury. In that Report it would be found that the head cook stated, t h at never was any such thing as a pound weight used in the prison. He would not, however, slater thou into detail upon this subject, but he should still say. that he could not possibly divest himself of what was set forth iu the Report already =Wt upon the subject. He could riot banish from • his mind the recollection of the care of an unfortunate g rl of the name of Ma, Rich, who was contintal is a most lonesome and dark part of the dungeon. • lawyer haring been charged with an assault to commit a rape, and she being unwilling to give het testimony alto the Fact, it was apprebeuded the delioqueot would escape, unless she were ceafined till the trial cameos. Ac cordingly she was thrown into this doageon, sod vigorously treated, under the expectation that her father would come forward and Wet money to pro- cure her release. In fact she was almost starved, and when she was brought forward to give her tes timony, she could neither stand nor sneak. When inquiry was !Dade into this chard', it eas said that . the fkthcr being only a button-muker, could not 14 see given her better food, although she had been kept at his own house. Cpon a considera tion of the whole of them grievances, he thought them so abominable, that lie should upon au sans day submit a proposition to the House. * Mr. MELLISM contradicted the allegation. that the Governor's son had got a young woman o ,:h child in the prison, as it occurred is months ahyr she was at large. As to the charge ebeut the bread, he believed that Gentlemen w e re I,ot aware, that by the Act of Parliament soinething was allowed for the loss upon stale bread, or such al had been kept for a day and a hail or two days- There might be instances of one loaf beiug ouster weight, .but there would also be ot , -ers of its being over weight. He had an opportunity of miming the gaol aloe g 'with several others, mud u l ca weighing Soy loaves they y ielded 815 lbs.; ' 4 that there enuld be no accusetion brought against the Gaoler for starvinut the prisoners. Mr. Scottie said he slid not believe that there was an, fault on the part of the Magistrates, bet eJ the coutrare the investigatioJ would teud to the'; honour. 't h e Honourable Geutletuan then rec. creded to name those ti-nitlemen whom he eirib' to appoint upon the Committee. Mr. SEINSIDAN spoke to order, as it 'rvs par to name a Conlon: - re; nefune the House 1(4 consented to its ppo.nt•nent. Tire Report, tiueat;° and e n a ttas t: l r e c ' etl t. part as to :he polar ofi tJ rye AI -kei tllr tec ; e [r I , e le ir ,t e hr It - ue ug to of Le nd Fie Cl. ui tee jut by tnd tcli He ion old ,rth lb i of ft'T