The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-04-16 00:00:00

i ~r ~. INN 7 7 1 1 N Fi.f.llw.7"grm ; ■ ,~,~~ . 41 1 ..r-`wM! r.v.7 - - ;,-; * treble that the Duke of Clarence aright come iato the the line of succession. All the circumstances of ea penditere increased during 25 yeare ought. to be taken into consideration. What income one of the r e incetmight receive out of this klaigdben, was not a 0.00 for Calculation on this question. It ap- . paired to Government fair to place the Duke of Clarence nn w on the same footing as the Duke of York . was plated 25 years back. In what was expedient to do to provide for the junior Royal Brothers, whose prospects' were not so immediate, it was thought right to prittmee an inferior provision to that for the Desks of Clarence. No consideration would have induced Ministers to propose unnecessary provisions. lie could not have given satisfactory information to thewHouve till he had an opportunity of making ea plantlittris of . the reasons on which he intended to move the addition of 12,0001. a year to the provisions of 18;0001. a year, in order' to make op 30,0001. per annom, The statement of the Hon. Gentleman last night (Mr. Tierney), as to amounts, was correct. He was sure the House must feel, that it was obvious . that when a Prince formed a matrimonial alliance with a 'foreign Princes's, great additional eipeticer Must necessarily be incored by alt rations in his establishment, besides fa contingency of having a family. The Ducheta of York in the arrangements on her marriage had 4,0001. a year for pill-money, in circumstances different from the present, when the provisions were wanted for Princes entering into mar riage connections, with the view of having a family. If they married, it was fitting that they should live in the country, in the scale in which they were Irani, and to which Providence had devilled them.—[Hear, woold put it to the House whether the encrease of income was' not owing to the necessary enervate of expenditure. He trusted that Gentle. men could feel no astonishment at proposals to aug ment the revenues of the Royal Family, which could not be considered as such additional burdens, when it was recollected that the ancient resources of the Crown were taken away. lie would fairly pot the point to all, in and nut of the House, notwith. cand;ng the prejudices that he knew were excited against this measure.—(Year, hear, hear!)—He woad put it to the feelings of the Howse, com. paring the circumstances with those of the Doke and Duchess of York, whether in reality 80001. a year addition was more than necessary. The income of the Duke and Duchess of York afforded some criterion to judge of the propriety of the principle of the mea sure. The Duke of Gloucester, being nephew of the King, was not in the same situation as the King'ssoos, and the Princess Mary had en income of her own.— Orr the Princess Charlotte Parliament settled 60,0001. a year. The Duke of York had thirty-seven thousand pounds a year, besides his military employ ments.—The Duke and archess of Gloucester had together 28,0001. a year, besides the Duke's emolu ments. It did not therefore appear to Ministers con sistent with their duty to the Crown to put the King's own sons in a situation subordinate to his Highness the Duke of Gloucester. Prince Leopold, after the lamented decease of the Princess Charlotte, had 50,0001. a year. Ought the junior Princes to be placed in a situation of inferiority ? The House, he trusted, would feel the grounds this measure had hitherto proceeded upon. They would feel, that if it was thought desirable for the bolls of the King to marry, they should be placed in a becomitig situa. tion--not exactly like the Dake of York—but with incomes of 30,0001. a year, to preserve their ratik above the King's nephew. Ministers had flattered themselves, that the House would go to a large extent, without imposing too much additional burden. They felt it a duty to provide properly for the illus• trinus Individuals. The . marriage of the Dike rif Cumberland was more of a private than of a pult;ic character—[Herr, hear I] —hat the marriages pro. posed were regarded as of a public character. If they were of importance to the country, and if es penditure was much increased, was it tire dut) of Ministers to propose these grams to Parliament, to confer on them the stamp of deliberate and per manent distinction' The Duke of Cumberland. however, received the full consent of the Crown to his nuptials, and Ministers looked, therefore, for a provision fur him like those (or hie Royal Brothers, and for the same fur the Duke of Ketit if he -hoar,: also marry. The sum would amount to 55.51:01. a year immediately or eventually. It was proposed t o grant not of this 19,0001. a year for the Mike of Clarence, on' account of his relative situation to. wards the Throne, with an outfit In the same amount, and outfits for the-oilier Royal Dukes equal to the increase of their incomes. There was an ontfit to the Princess Charlotte, in 1:315, of 50,00. n. The practice of giving the outfits was the hest mode of preventing the Princes from the illeonvenjt.tice of getting into debt.—(llcar!)—For the first year, then, the incomes would he 55.500 i. and fire outfits to the same, making 111,0001. IVhen he came to point out resources from which the money could be drawn, from the Consulidated Fend or otherwise, it would probably he said that the matter either way wee just is broad as it was lona—(hear!), —and that the facts would be the same under any circumstances. There might be some truth in that assertion. It ap. peered to his Majesty's Ministers, that these allow. antes would not require the imposition of airy new burdens upon the country, but would be covered by resources which had either lately fallen into the Consolidated Fund, or would shortly fall in. The first resource to which 'he alluded was 10.0001. of the balance that remained of the 60,0001. allowed for the expenditure of the late Prin. Aess Charlotte on her marriage, after deducting the 50,0001. still continued to the Prince of Cobourg.— The second was the annual sum of 50,0001. allowed to his Reyal Highness the Prince Regent, for paying off his debts. This fund would be relieved in the course of two years, and could be made applicable for the purpose of the proposed establishments, or fur the general service of the country. He remain ed d':iberately convinced that he had acted rightly in Ali Tiling his Royal Highness as be had done, and in e"n"i"g to the proposal that had been now submitted. II? hail cow stated the whole of the views which they c•ilertsined, the reasons o,n their decision was h`roted in filing the amount of the intended expendi ture, and the funds out of which it was' to arise. Though convinced of the propriety of what they had proposed, he would not pertinaciously adhere to it arid as Parliament had manifested an indieposition to ccncur in the amount, he woull not press his in- 4 f .. ~~ tended propoialtopon thesis.--Cllecirn—iifits did not serrentivt, however, the opinion on which he acted, :par did he think there war any thing in the Went of the proposed provision which compro mised the public principle on which the Administra tion rested the justification condatt. (Hear!) The Princes, it was true, had all of them some other Wittes of income, beside the provision mode by Parliamentary grants'; and it might be thought that these additional revenues should he taken into cons sideration, and deducted from the sous supplied by Parliamentary liberality. This appeared to him to he both an illiberal and unwise view of the subject. Pitlidtheirt therefore should not sanction a principle , which .would have the tendency to produce an aver lion td the active duties of life, or the useful direc don'ts( thi4r abilities. Though placed at once be- , yond the necessity of active effort., and debarred by r'easoult of State from many employments to which others could resort, there were still duties which they might perform to the Public, without any danger of their influence, and to these they ought to he en couraged by the common hopes of reaping the re wards of their activity. Others could increase their livings by many ways on which they could not enter, and, therefore, though they email accept of many lucrative employments, they should dot he precluded altogether from the hopes of bettering their incomes by engaging in the performance of tech public set. vices as they could execute consistently with their title and elevated rank. Parliament could sot with ' propriety graduate the scale of Pibvision from any consideration; of a personal nature, because it might be invidious to examine minutely into personal quali ties, but merit should not he repressed by being de prived of the hopes of reaping its rewind in emolu ments independent of Parliamentary !literality. If any of the ttoy al Family therefore exercised employ merits at home or ahroad, from which they derived en income which might he properly considered as the ft uits of their activity, or the rewards of their talent, they should tint be treated less liberally by the House. He stated these considerations, because he saw a disposition in some Members to consider the emoluments derived from office as a deduction of Parliamentary provision. The case of the Duke of Cambridge had beet, partirulerly alluded to, and an Hon. Member had moved for an account of his income from his foreign employments. The douse could not properly enquire into this subject, or demand the production of the accounts moved for; but as much misrepreaentation had gone abroad, he did not regret that au opportunity was given him of making an explanation which would show the un founded nature of those rumours, and demonstrate , The additional allowance for the Dukenf Clarence bring That for the Duke of Kent For the Duke of Cuouherthod . For the Duke of Cambridge that neither the tenure on which the Rosa' Duke held his sit nation, nor the magnitui h of the faint's menus which he derived from it, I nil him open to lhe least imputation, or tended In .lisiutb the scaly of provision which , Ministers proposed t o Parliament for the Royal Family. In the first place, the silos lion of Civil and Military Governor of (hoover was of a temporary nature; and without pledong the Royal Duke as to any plies that he might have in view for the futore cour.o of bi. life, he miuh! sly that he seemed to have no intantion of making it per • manent. Ills Royal Highness undertook the other at the request of his brrither, tha Prince- itegent, and he might return to this couttieT io a short time. "With a view to his return he hail refrained front altering any of his domestic arrangements in Eioglatitl, and —ill retained his house in this count'' , ready for Lis ieLep. tint'. In the second place, the situation na% riot only temporary, but its emolument, were very incon siderable when compared with the mkreitresentations of it which hail gone abroad. Ili• income, as Civil and iililttary Governor, dill not exceed live thousand pounds a )tar; and the whole extent of his emolu ments, front all contingencies, amounted only to about sit thousand pounds. An employment of this kind, tensperary in its WWI., and net extravagaut iu iis • gains, he submitted to the Houle, should not deprive his Royal liighonsa, either in his married or .Inuaarfied state, from being placed on the scale of pro ; .isiots which the other members of the Royal Family *ere to tom. His Royal Highness the Duke of CI.. . . Fence was still less provided for by his employments. lie had oul) 1,0001. a-jear as his half-pay. The Doke of Kent enjoyed the emoluments of Governor of Gib rAltar, ■nd had likewise a regiment ; but his revenue from these sources did not exceed 6,0001. a-year.— Ile submitted, therefore,* that these sources of in- come should not M taken into consideration, as a deduction from the intended provision. If the House fild so, they took away all motives to exertion.— rhe Duke of Kent receivol hia provision later in life by three years than soup of ;lig brothers, and sis 'ears later than others. The House should not say to hitn, or the rest of the Royal Faintly, we will grant you no provision, because, by the bounty of the Crown, you are alre.ttly prod. - led for, and whatever you earn by the esortion of your own talents shall he deducted from the liberelky of Parliament. Sr far from adopting that principle, the reverse of it ought to he acted ui Ile would leave nut of view, then, the indeppodent incomes of the Dukes of Cambridge and Kent, and would proceed to the detail of the propnr.•d rust- Sion. By the feelings manifested in the House %hen the Prince Regent's Message was submitted to it, Ministers had been induced to examine the matter mare minutely, to see if soy deduction could be made.--year, hcar:l—They hail gone iota the minutest calculations and the strictest enquitiets.— Ifni hod not depended on ihemarlves, but entered into a painful investigation or the details with those from whom they could expect the best information, and the most important °pillion. 'Ube scale of a private family was not one that could apply to that of the Illustrious Persons. %Vith respect to the pro vision necessary for the Duke of Clarence, the result of this examination was, that unless 10,0001. a year I o f additional allowance was granted, the proposed establishment could not be coodected. Any grant to a less amount would render it really impossible to support his rank in the married state. Allow )0g this sum for his Royal nightie's the Make of Clarence, from a regard to the closer pros?. mity of his issue to the succession, it was pro ',posed that the provision for the junior branches of the family should bd less. He would propose a Resolution for 60001. to the Duke of Kent, 60001. to the Duke of Cnralierlantl, and 60001. to 'the - Ditite of Cambritlgtr.--tHear *--With respect ro pio.oxoney to the Royal Datilesses i with Whom these • Nipt--z . . SP- RIP TI4E STATE'SMAN: Royal persons hart or might contract marri4ge alliances, that *R4 a consideration to be settled be t %vitt hu.ihanti and wife. The Duchess of York on her marriage, had. TPeeited 4,0001. a.year as W I allowance for pin•money. Allowing that oh/rather Royal Duchesses were to' receive sit oltowance of 3,0001. for this purpose, thin, the edeitional income of the Duke of Clarence,' for his . fatally establishi merit, would amount only to 7,0001., that of the Doke of Kent to 3,0001. ) tbitval the Doke of 42. em. lowland to 3,0001., and that of the Doko of Cam. bridge to 3,0001. annually. Hr thought, if ;any thiag less than what he bed mentiotred were HY be A/ranted, it would not ankvier the prupose. Rimy addition at all was to be allowed, less coe h t not be stated. If the House wished the twtorite place. they should not expose the lirso.-1103 of Ibe Royal Family to the necossiry of cootractiog dettosi or the Roy al succession to discredit -among toroth oatiooe. Ministers proposed to do what Parliament had dime in 1767, when the Dike of Gloucester, the King's brot her, had bestowed oponitim an allowance of 24,0001 If the Duke of Gloucester then had 210042 and the present Doke 28,0001., it was not asking lon much to ask 24,0001. for the junior branches of the Royal Family, end 28,0001. for the Duke of Clarence. He would now lone the /melon to the judgment of e Committee, without trespassing farther upon its patience. T' a jointures proposed for the Michels of Clarence, in the event of the desth of the Doke, was 7,0001. a year, and that of the other Royal Duchessos, 6,W01. Ile hoped the propositions %filch be had submitted to the House, combining is they did, in his opinion, the honour of the Crown with the most scrupulous regard to Public Economy, would meet its approbation. The amount that had fallen in, or that would soon fall in, to the Consolidated Find, 1 amounted to 60,0001. . rel C.OOO GAO li,Atk) 6,000 %Youla make to all • -.T404 In the even of the Duke of tient'aierrosarryilet,' the suns would be only st 4 /1"10 The Noble Lord, concleded by moving Resolutions that 10.0001. he granted to his Majesty, for the per parse of providing an establishment for the Doke of Clarence on his marriage; that 6,0001. be granted for t' e Doke of Kent, &c. Upon the first Resolu tion being pot by the Chairman of the Committee, Mr. C. BARCLAY expressed his sorprise end re gret that Ministers should propose any addition to the burdens of the country, at a period when our 'evense was so deficient, compared to per expendi ture, that a loan was in contemplation to supply that deficiency. This deficiency was notoriousty about 11 or 11 millions annually. The distress of the People wec universal and undeniable; and it wits knots n, that in consequence of that distress his Koval • Mellows.; the Prince Rec Hit had voluntarily given up fifty thourornd a year of his allowance. Was it then becoming, under such circumstances. to pro pose nn augmentation of the public burdens? With regard to the N.,bie Lord's reference to the grnot to the Di.ke of Yotk upon his martiage, it would be recollected that at that time our finance; were in a flourtsning state. The Honnurable Meuther ask' d oh.ther, if the Doke of Clarence should have no issue, it was meant to propose a ((Whet. addition to the allowance of the other Ponces who mig;:t be married? lie was as willing as any man to support the splendour of the Royal Family ; but the ques tion was whether, if any sum for an outfit were granted to the Duke ref Clarence, that slim, instead of being appropriated to the support of Royal aplen. door, would not rather he applied to the psyment of previous debts? Were he to be influenced try the con. sid•ration of private virtues, Ile should cettaitily be willing to vote for any grant to the Duke of Kent ; bat from what the Noble Lord had ststed, he felt that no addition was 'necessary to That Ptince's re venue. If, indeed, the other 'Nimes had pursued the same system as the Illustrious Personage alluded to for the discharge of their debts, more would he done to maintain the proper character of the Royal Family, than could be expected to afire from the adoption of the present proposition. He did not mean to propose any direct negative upon the mo tion before the Committee, but he felt it his duty to call upon Gerrit/men to pause before they agreed to that motion—to postpone the consideration of a mo tion for augmensirig the burdens of the country until it was knoo II whether the country arns in a state to meet that augmentation. Upon these grounds the Honourable Member proposed that the further con sideration of the motion should be postponed until this day week.. After t few words from Mr. BROGDEN upon the prover order of proceeding, Mr. BARCLAY raimml, That Ili. Chairman should report proittP.s, sad ask lease In sit again. Mr. PARNELL spoke in favour of the original motion. • Re was armless to maintain the splendour and dignity of the Royal FaMily; and, upon a ease /If 1 ilii nature, Siren:Ali deprecated any diacession es to the ',enigmal character of the Illustrious Persoo. ay. alliited to. Mr. PROTHEROE congratulated the House on the effect of the virtuous opposition which had been made to this measure, in reducing the original tool proposed to be celled for. To the just causes of grief for the death of the Princess Charlotte of Co. bourg, many ',Evvoia had added apprehensions of the failure of the Royal line of Brunswick. But a cause of grief was now forced upon the public mind which had not been anticipated. Pensions and grants to foreigners were called for, in consequence of that unfortunate event. To foreign alliances he had no objection, but he hoped they were entered into with out mercenary views, and that they would he pro ductive of happiness without burdening the 04ti•in. In loyalty he would yield to no man; but he held it to be not only consistent with loyalty, bat e•senti , l to its stability, to speak the language of truth. Dirt Ministers speak the langskage of truth to their itoyal Master when this measure was first thought of 2 DA they tell him that this was Hot the time to increase the burdens of the People ? Ile had presented many Petitions for a radical Reform of that House. H. had told the Petitioners that she consequence of 'granting the prayer of their Petitions would be a re volution : but the cousequeoce of increasing our bur dens beyond the possibility of supporting them, would ) he contended, be equally revolutionary. Ile I .• MI —~sr*~ - .t 111111 • ~---~ ~ ' , coneratuleted the Bode, on the opportunity they now had of giving the lie to the charge so often brought against them, that the interests of the Nee. pie had less weight with them than the intleence of the Crown. We werteow for three yells in peace with all the world, yet our Oxpeaces were beyond • oat-resources; and, in thaface oft this we still worst on increasing o'er burden,. (fever there wee a Tole of that ileum in perfect euiso t with public feellng‘ it was thi , vivre which had rejer•ed the opplicetioto for an additional allowance to tte Deke of Cerebeeleatik —[hear, • hour !]--He should therefore vote spinet the proposed Resolution. Mr; GURNEY ascribed the present Opplicatios to. the ettecto of the Meerfe,ze Act. By st ell' the descendants of the Princess Sepl.i), et leas , •all thb descendants of George II or e . precluded from. ist.: termarrisge kith the great falsities of En t eand. The may riso.on tar such an eneeeeele was the preveoe lion :of disputes, claims to.livellsercession, and of ceiseepsent civil war. T tie :ciin *roe- of York and Lancaster were the Wets of;* aithaeoull are. From this Marriage Asst spreelaesled eeethe evils which now excited asiiinsdvenien sod oressitives. The Mute! taints Branches oftithe Royal 'Reeled.* from any rlliwace with the .greilt Dukes, - Doris, and Barons of England, coin forced into alilancets,wirla week anti poor German (amities. The actesequeate of such alliances was a consLessEapplicetion to Par. liement for proyieinto to •fiipport a family In the highest rank, without any independent resources.; • Mr. 11. SUMNER deresuldd the ?destine. 4414 at Lord Live/pool's, against the imputatioos wbiek Gentlemen oppsoite entleiroored to level at theme.. To such a class of men he should always consider it an honour to Wang, notwithstesidlog the designs. lion which the. lion. and Learned Gentleman (Me. Broughin.) gave them, when he called them asclicke The) did not, perhaps, possess in as high degree as the non. and Learned Gentlemen, *lea he (Mr. ti.) would call—.eking the eapeession from the same source as the Learned Gentleman took the tem of dirk, namely, from the Slang Dictientity—the gift of the gab—(4 laugh from the Opposition)—but they were Gentlemen, from their character and cots. nections, best calculated to convey the genteel im• pression of the country on any suejed shout to be submitted to the notice of Parliament. In his jutip. ment very material benefits might follow, though he was aware he could not say an in the present in. stance-. ( Hear, hear I)—from treetinga thus cnnsti. toted. With respect to the particular proposition before the Benne, he could. eat go to the extent of the Noble Lord's re.tion—he could not consent that the House should provide fur the Doke of Clarence , on the ground of his being Presumptive Heir to the Throne—a situation in which he did not stand.—( hear, hear, hear 1) —lt was true that his Royal liidusess the. Duke of York was married and had no issue, but might not that Illustrines Per. soilage, by the visitation of a family calamity, lose his Lady, and in such an event; would not the ILlyal. Duke have reasonable grounds, on a seemed! mar• riage. to eemat.d bine pieced in a sitorion to teat in whirls the Prince of Sese.Cebrare was placed by Parliament ? Under such circurnatatices, could Parli.oneto reuse en establict!ment suitable to the station of the Royal Dake, after Loving 11-'oria established the plecedent, in the case of FoltreW Leopold? It oat impossible for him to sere@ le the present demand for the Duke of Clarente. To the estent of .26,0001. he was iii , posed to assent. Bot before be granted e'en that, he would ask, was the House its posses ion of the necessary intormae lion to assure it, that such an increase in the pro. vkion would be applied to uphold the plestdour and dignity of too. Illustrious Persoriage. lie did think, that before any increase was granted, the whole of the circumstances ought to he berme l's , Ii nsent. In considering the propriety den increase, the House was bound to cousider what were the pvseilt allowances of his Royal Highness. Indepeseletitly of his anneal allowance of 18,0001. the Duke of Clarence re. ceived 35001. by 'I r..asery warrauts,with 11001. half pay. Added to it i.t he was Ranger of Bushy Park, tad a charming re•idence, with appendages of uo less value than 30001. per annum. These things should be fairly shed. Hot at all events, before any increase of provision stag given, he contended, that as the professed object of the present mealura was to enable the Royal Duke to support a greater splendour, it ought fits( to be ascertained that the sum would be niatle aacilable to tic? put But, if pubic report epoke truly, the Duke of Clarence was greatly in debt. Thie.e debts amounted to be. tweeett 7u and 80 ; 0001. To talk. therefore of 10,0001. per annum, under such circumstances, fin an iticies,e of at lewlour, went to Ore his Royal Iligheess in a degraded rather then in an elevated situatiou. lie feated it would he found, thrt the House was rctually thowiug away the tui,noy. The Noble Lord woo intro'!uced the proposition bad statet:, that a liberal outfit was the hest antidote against incurring debt. But if the debts were al• ready incerred, the antidote would be itittiteratige.--• With respect to the junior Members of the Royal Feudist, be would have no objection to a regulaleci grant on their Marriage. Much to the o .our of his Royal llighness the Duke of kept, he had made every sacrifice to renege himself from the pressure of hm debts.— Grits of hear, hear !].— I:1 tw o years, it was stated. that illustrious Personege would be wholly free from every ineurehrance.—Eficer 11-- If at that period any alliance was in contemplatko, to an increased allowance he could not object. He was ready to admit, that if the state of the Country would permit it, 30,0001. should he the allowatme of the Royal Dukes on their marriage ;' but if the pubw tic ttecessiity interposed, the Royal Dukes, in come mon with every other description in the country, must eield to the pressure of the 6611 , 4., [Hear, hear I .] —When he spoke of his Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, it was impossiblinot to 3e im. preyed with the uniform teneur of lis conduct-- f Hear, hear !] —and particularly with she manner in which he had •voi•t.ii the incurring ef any debts.-- indeed his revered a n d Itoyei Father had truly said Of him some 'ears ago, , in the language of Eton School, with nisi 1. his Majesty, from a teeing of protection, was fa.oiliaf, that tie had not tried° his fret fault even then. Any increase of provision to . that Illustrious Personage cored alone he applied to sustain the due splendour of his station. With re. vied to the Duke of Cumberlasid, the question has been long ago settled. The various divisive' on Ella I