The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-12-19 00:00:00

..., discussion on the subject, and there was a doubt on some of our minds whether it would do him good to irritate him ; but his Majesty had been informed the Chancellor was to be there ; and,it was then decided amongst us, that as that was the case, and he had seemed to have made up his to seeing theChaneellor, there wits more chance of irritation by preventing it than tilere was by the seeing him; and therefore the Chan cellor saw him with the unanimous concurrence of all, after that, liscession. Hy *.whom was his Majesty informed that the Chaniallor would be there, and was that informa. - don given to his Majesty with the knowledge and . i c:onsept of all the Physicians in attendance ? I be lieve Sir Henry Halfurd was the person who in formed hii Majesty the Chancellor was to be there. With the knOwledge and concurrence of all the Physicians? ~ Not at the time; Sir Henry Milford was shone with the King at the time he told hint, • •and we did not bear of it till afterwards. • . Then the day before yesterday, in consequence of such information conveyed to his Majatly, you ' and the ether Physicians hail none .but a choice of Oils to choose from ; that was,' whether he would be irritated by seeing him, or more irritated by not • ssieing him ? That was net exactly the cue: •ere h id some hopes that the seeing the Chancellor might • give the King more self.possession ; and I do nut know that it did nut for a time, because, we had • known before informer illnesses, that it had done au. But there teas no evil to be apprehended from it, except there mieht ,Isave been a little.momentary anxiety about the King. We doebted whether it would be right or not, 61 our disciiesion 'among ourselves ; but there was nnthiog.of clash or of -op. position of 'sentiment; It was a temperate sloe ; there 'was no disientient at all ; it ,seats not • apprehended that it was a choice of two evils. - Hid bolt been consulted by Sir Henry Hal. ford s whether lie should inform his Majesty, lit the manner he did, as to the Chancellor's attendance, \kneld you have weal, to her Majesty being in. formed ? That *add have depended entirely on the state io which I might have seen the Ring at that Vine. Have you, within the last fortnight, seen the ine.'at any time, in such a state, that you thought it desirable the Chancellor should visit him.? Ido not know that I should of myself have mentioned it ; at the same time, I do not know that I had any objection to it, I do not thick the King was quite in the state in which I should have expected much benefit to have resulted from it. • When the Chancellor consulted the Physicians, on the propriety of seeing his Majesty, did the Physicians agree on any stipulations as to speaking on subjects of business, or otherwise ? Yes, they did; they desired the Chancellor to avoid any thing that might create discussion. One principal reason why it was suggested, that it might be right for the Chancellor to sec the King, was, that. Parliament • • might.not take the state of the Klieg merely from • the represeufations of his Physicians. In the first attendance I had upon his Majesty, in the year 1788, fur that reason, I desired that the Chancellor e!enld see the King, and that Mr. Pitt would see the Kink; sad at say desire they both saw him. , At what period of 'the King's Mites, was that ? It seas. within-the fieet month, for it was while his Ma. *Ay was at the Queen's Lodge, at Windsor ; it . WAS in the latter end of the month of Nuven.brr, 1788, Lord Thurlow went in, and Mr. Pitt also 3tw the King at that time, before his Majesty was remossal from , Windsor to Kew, , Do you recoil.* whether any advantageous • effect woe .producidoo his Majesty by seeing Mr. Pittend Lord Theriot, In both instances a be • , te.:6e141 effect ensued. in what way did those advantages skew them . Seim The King became more composed, and be viati MOre manageable afterwards : at that time we had no other persons in attendance upon the King but his. pages.' • Ilse his Majesty been bodily Indisposed once or twice within the last fortnight ? Yes, there has been at times considerable accession of fever about the King. DI , you attach any importance to such bodily indispuetion at his Majesty has been subject to for the last fortnight ? I attach considerable importance to any secession of fever ; and there was accession of . fever within the last fortnight; we had dealer= , on account of any other indisposition. In using the word " fever," du you mean es tie cession of the mental demase t or of bodily indispo sition ? Of bodily indisposition, when we have suade use of the word fever ; the King had fever, though accompanied with an aggravation of the mental disease ; yet it was independent of that. Was it at the suggestion, or at the request of the Lord Chancellor, that he saw the King ; or was the Chancellor, -upon his arrival at Windsor to en. enquire after his Majesty, informed it wits settled that he should attend upon tint I It was not not at the suggestion of the Chancellor, and his Lordship said that he was nut even prepared to expect such a circiensiance ? it seas rather at the recommendation bf the physicians in attendance. • When !atoll Thurlow and Mr: Pitt saw the King, in his former illness, were any of the physicians present at the same time ? Yes, I was present. Were any physicians present when the Lord Chancellor saw him the other day ? No. Nur any othe person ? Not any person was in the room hot the Chancellor ; Sir Henry Halfurd, introduced the Chancellor to the King, and then retired ; and no ether person was in the room. Yon have 'toted that ono of the inducements to the Chancellor's seeing the King was, that Partia... tnytit was to meet the nee' day ; did the Physicians desire the Chancellor to ace the King, because they IA ere aware that Parliament was to . meet the neat ei ty Idu not know whether that .was one of the ical1011111; but it was nut done Nith any disrespect to P.albessent, 'only with a view, as it had been its the Burnet! ease, in the year 1788, that Mr. Pitt and the Cbthseellor might both have to say, that they did itot take the state of the King merely from the re presentation of his medical attendants. H a s there been at any time, in your opinion, any connection between the defect sotbsisting to his i‘lijest)'s an.l the mental disorder under kis MigiVsty at Itrasent 131)(JUIl l or at any fur. mer period laboured? No; I • Sio • not apprehend there is. • You have said, that.yon are • not less sanguine of his Majesty's •ultimate recovery, than you were when you gavu your evidence before the Privy Council ; are you. less sanguine a • his Majesty's speedy recovery 'than • you were 'at *Oat petiod ? Yes, of his Majesty's speedy revovery ; from the relapse which took : place immediately afterwards,l we certainly have not so fair a 'prospect.. Can you state any iirobable time for his Wes.' ty's altimate recovery ? No, 1 cannot indeed ; I think the King is very much in the saute state that saw him in. the latter end of the year 1788, and the beginning of the year 1789; but it varies so, there are so many fluctuations, that when we see the King a little better, and going on, a little better, for two or three days, we are sanguine, and if : there comes a relapse it throws as hack again ; there , ate such fluctuations, it is Impossible to give any positive and decided opinion ; and indeed in this ease there is no definitive time in the nature of the maim!? ; you can very seldom • say ; when men have a common fever, after the symptoms' have been formed three or four days, ono can form a pretty good judgment as to the duration of diedisease; but In this, . I believe, nobody has ever been able to ascertain any precise time. ,Than I understand, from the nature of the ma. lady, It is impossible , far medical skill to sseertaio the time of recovery„ - ,a . Outstays! or other ordinary tlhluttsa ? Just so. Atteiountuktlnion that thattlifficulty is Increased by Ids . Male-stye : w n* io asp, and .by a other infirmity' that M ay hive" attached. to his Majesty? The King is a eon_ iOd age; therivip *0 much ap. parent integrity of constitution abontkiia,. that I: think that that certainly does not operate upon my mind ; and I believe not, upon.ths of any, so much as it would in the ease df any other person. . 1 h Do you know how Ging the Chancellor remain. ked with the. King ? Very little inore than a quarter. of an hour; I think Sir. Henry Halfwit said he minuted him, and that it was 18 minutes. You hare stated, that When Lord Marlow saw his Majesty, in 1788, and when Mr. Pitt saw his Majestrabout the same time, you were 'present at those interviews? . I was present when Mr. Pitt went in, and 1 think I was once present when Lord Thurlow went in. . Nobody was preeini the day before yesterdey, whoa the Lord Chancellor went in ? No. Was the absence of the Physciaus, upon this. occasion, at the Physicians' own suggestion, or at the request of the Lord Chancellor ? At the Phy. sicians' own suggestion, that the Chancellor should form his own opinion. Did not the duration of his continuance depend upon the opinion of the Physicians ? Entirely : the stipulation of the Physicians was, that he should see his Majesty for a quarter of as hour. It was of Sir" Henry Raiford'; owe potion, that he proposed to the King to see this Lord Chancel. for ; and, having so proposed to ; the tin& be eons. municated to the other Physicians that he had so proposed, and they after,some discussion consent,. ed to it ? Yes. But It was net first of ail proposed to the Phy: slates OS -a measure by Sir Henry Halford ? It had beeWdiseussed among us some time before, and Sir Hehry Halliard at that time thought ho saw the **King in such a state in which we all said if we had seep him we should hip) wished its there was nu blame in the world attached to Sir Henry Belford. When his Majesty's Physicians, occasionally, in-', their daily reports, describe his Majesty as being better, do they mean to confine themselves exctu. sively to his mental disorder, or to combine with it any considerations of his bodily state? To cunt. bine them, when they say he is better, they mean both. Fever, in the bulletins ? means not merely fever, but the mental disorder aggravated by fever ? At . those times the King has had fever, and it has perhaps been the most prominent part of his disorder ; there have been periods when the King was very serious. , ty ill with fever. Withdrew. Dr. MATTIM, BAILLIE called in, and Examined. Lrhe first eight questions were similar to,those print b y the Privy Council. 3 y"usign the present disorder of his Ma. `Met to any particular cause? I have no doubt in my wee mind, that his complaint arose out of the treat a ff ection that his Majesty had for his deceased *tighter, and the great affection that he felt during 'ter long and tedious illness. Whets were you first called to see the King ? I Relieve it was the 25th of October. .•• "Were you in the habit or attending on the King *fere his Moen? No, not at all. - • Did you ever visit the King., as a patient, before this illness ? No, never. ; In ordinary CIIICS NOUN yet oppose that a pa. tient was more liked tot fiom a mental ma. tidy, haring been s with mental malady three or four limes previously, than if he had never been tie a ff ected ? Ido not know very well what answer 'Ai give to that question : I think it hears two ways; lit appears to me, that where a person has had at indisposition with certain symptoms three or fuer times, and has recovered, it always gives a md. dyeable presumption, provided the constitution is not much weakened in its pollen, that the, person will recover again ; at the seine time it may be said, that the susceptibility to dine*, ii increased by the number of attacks, and he that point of view the rim' might notbesolikely to recover. Lthink, however, that the other reasoning has more power altogether than the last, and thaefore I should say ? that if the constitution is not much weakened, [it gives a presumption, if a person has recovered front a similar disease three times, that he his a Considerable chance of recovering the fourth time. When you talk of the King's recovery, and competency to public business, you mean, the com plete recovery, as you would speak of another pa. tient, to be competent to the management and di. faction; of all his affairs ? I think so. I do not say that the King might not fall back and be liable to any future attack of a similar indisposition ; but as far as I can judge ofit,'it is most probable, that if he does recover, he will recover with the same power of performing his duties, as a SOM. reign, as before. •;; _ VIE ..STATESMAII._ Hate any of the anyal ramify seen the Kin, since his indisposition ? No as fir as I know ; I believe at the time he was beginning to be hurried at first, his family saw him ; 4ut since the disease established ils character, I blieve none of the Royal Fancily have seen him. I believe nobody since the 251 it of October. Is the hurry of which you speak, to be under. Main eibsequent of anterior to the 25th of Oc to. ber ? He was certainly Very much hurried on the 25th of October ; 'heti believe there were little marks of thallium sort before that ; and that they were observed by his family, before they were ob served by strangers. Did yon observe any symptom; of it lief Ore the 25th of October ? I think once or twice I observed a little; but it did not strike me much ; on the 25th it . Wis very well Marked.' C saw the King twice a day, before the 25th, to give an account of his daughter.` Can any persons have any access to his Majesty, without the knowledge and consent of his Physici. ans ? I. believe not ; there are certain persons of course 'established about his Majesty, but there is nu stranger ; occasionally One Or IttO of his con. "Wendel pages have come into the room fee an lea ',state, hut I do net know that 'any body else has. Has any perste], other than the Royal Family, or his proper attendants, seen the King, since you :inteelreen in-attendance epee his Majesty ? Yes, the fiord Chancellor sew Isis Majest y the day before yesterday. • Were you commlted on the propriety of the Lord Chancellua 'a seeing the King ? It made a part of general conversation, among the Physicians, the ; day before the Lord Chancellor saw the King; and it was thought upon the whole, perhaps, that it , would be more satisfactory that the Chancellor should see the King, so as to give an account of him from his own observation. Was that a matter that suggested itself to the Phypiciansintheir medic4l capacity,or was it thrown out from any other quarter ? It wis not thrown out from any other quarter so far as I know. • From which of the Physicians did the first sag. gestion come, of the propriety of the Chancellor seeing the King? I believe it was from Dr. lie berden. What reasons did Dr. Heberilen assign, for wish. big the Chancellor to sec the King ? There was no reason assigned, but that I have assigned now, that it was thought desirable Parliament should have,' not 'simply the report of the Physicians, but the report of the Lord-Chancellor, from his own obser. . ration. • Did the Physicians consider it any part of their duty to discuss what would be most satisfactory to Parliament ? I really do not know, whether they may not have gone beyond their duty; I do not pretend to say whether it was wisteor not. De you know that his Majesty. bad been inform. ed, previously . to such consultation among the Phy. SiCiallS, that On that day the Chancellor would be at Windsor ? Yes, he was informed. By whom was be so informed ? I believe by Sir . Halford. Was such intoning* communicated by Sir. D. Ilslford ito the Ka t Ii consequence of any dis euasion amongst the PtysicianO, There was ne discussion, es far " is' I recollect, by Which . . Sir Henry Was empowered to make any communica. tion teethe King • and the fact is, I believe it was thought afterwar ds better that the communication. hail nut been made. llas his Majesty been subject to .any bodily in. disposition within the last fortnight ? His body, has hardly been at any time perfectly free from in. disposition. ' Do you attach any importance to the indisposi. Lion to which his Majesty has been subject, in the course of the last foitnight, as affecting his general health ? I should not, I think, attach much im portance to it; the idea that naturally occurs to the mind, in considering a small defect of bodily health is this, that as the King during the whole of this indisposition has had more or less of bodily in. disposition, though sometimes very little, yet it be. comes an additional,..though a slight proof, that he may probably. recover, that he has that bo dily ailment': if there was precisely the state of mind which the Kiag has without bodily ailment, we should say, there was altogether a less chance, of the King's recovering, than if he had the bodily ailment just stated ; at the time time, I think it right to say, that sometimes that bodily ailment has been very little.- Does the Kin g ' s age 'render his recovery more or less probable, th an if lie were • yeupger person ?. It certainly renders it less probable; at the same time age is a relatita term ; the King, •at 72, is stronger and younger, if one may use that expres sion, than many persons of 62, and therefore may have a better chance than most persons would have at the same period Orlife. • • Does the King's defect of sight at all influence, in your opinion e the probability, or improbability of Meting's ultimate recovery ? I have really no experienca stall, and therefore what I shall say to the committee mast be considered as a conjecture, and therefore peobably of little. value. 1 should conceive that, in the earlier periods of an Wis. position like the King's, blindness would probably be an advantage, that it would lessen the excitement ; butwlseti a person, afflicted like the King, goes on towards recovery, I conceive that the want of sight would be a disadvantagee . becaute be would be de. prived Luf Many amusements that would occupy his mind and assist- ke the complete recovery. I con. ceive e that whin a person, similarly situate with re- Ord to complaint as the King, has got into a state ,of convalescence se as to be able to take exercise, perhaps, the having sight would be then be a disad vantage again, te:catise* he would-be roused by a great many objects and take . violent exercise, high might possibly bring beck a return of the complaint. AVliat I ray now, however, is altoge. ' ther conjecture. Do you 'think that the King's defect of si g ht is less likely to havitan iulluence upou the ultimate 1. m:evertor the 'King, than upon the duratiop . of , his disorder I I slimly think it less likely to h ave ' an inflactice upon the positive recovery of.the Wing, than upon' the duration of his illness. Can yon, undeethe circumstances which Peculiarly attach to the King's situation, his defect of sight and his age, form in your own mind any c ook at all satisfactory to you, as to the prohab' " 141 Con of the King's illness? I really Ca led "' Ca on t. can only give the answer I have dune bef ore , can only conjecture, a n d t h ere is no other m % I ' of judgment I can per ce i ve , t h an that of -1-1 ing the present with his M a j esty ' s former Olsen: at the same time, I thi n k , the circumstance: " such, as to render it likely that the present lad: sition will be a longer indisposition tha ne 1 ' woe o i l , former. Have you ever know an instance of a pe n " the King's age, and deprived of sight, coeutt,.° perfectly fri:en. an. atta c k, suc h as his M a i es ' labours under ? I have n ever k nown, no fi'r recollect, .but one person who Was aff ected : it this disorder, who was as old as the King, tad& person saw ; but that person did not recov er . Have you a more or less sanguine expeetatiese his Majesty's ultimate recovery, now, than y ou 6 1 at the period when y ou were examined before 174 Privy Council ? I have rather a less saiguineee. pectation ; but the difference in that respect I on i bi to sly, Is very little. Have you a more or less sanguine expects lies on his Majesty's speedy recovery, now, than yo u k id at that period ? I Never thought it likely th at ly Majesty would recover soon; if there is any ch itti in my sentiments now, it is must probably twi t will °be longer thin I thought at 000 time. What has made you somewhat less sanitise of the Klng'sspeedy recovery, than Toe were, voce examined before the Privy Council ? That therea u been another attack since I was examined; col I think the remissios since the attack Iles been heal so complete as some of the former ones were. Having stated, in the earlier part of mum, mination, that you believed - his Majesty's affection for the deceased Princess, and grief 'luring hero, ness, was the cause of his Majesty's indispoitisal I will you state whether, in your opinion, thcie, cunistance of such a cause bring assignable, is ft, vnurable or otherwise, with regard to the peep e d of his Majesty's recovery ?—I can only antreerns question by conjecture; but I should say, up o whole, it was rather favourable. It is been know some fixed cause for the complaint, ante better likewise that the cause should hate crate which it has done in the present instance. Witlitlret 541 11 lIRDAY; Dec, 15 1510 2BERnsm call; d in; Dr. vll4l awl Ex. • ansined. EThe first eight answers of Dr. Humans vk similar to those given before the Peery Council:l State your epinioll Upon the present state of h Majesty's health, u compared with that at th time you were eXamined before the Priv, Cunard k d t, v cc o r u n i c d e do you conceive him to he better or worse, or S muchthestethsetatiteaLlstheo. i b v e e r h ig ini h t to to bl adil that answer, that his Majesty has not continued sal formly in the same state suteel was examined h fore the Privy Council ; but has been worse fur few days t and since then has bees hence again. . -. When did you Nat see the King? . I stye the yesterday mojelpg. • •-t What avis;hie state et -- thitt UatK that his Majesty had pasted a very good ui 6 previous to. my seeing his Majesty it theca. it had been mentioned to him,, that bia Physic or some of theds, were coming to town for purpose of being examined; and I believe It owing to that cause, that his Majesty had all hurry upon him at the time I saw him : I come it was owing to that cause, because his CUM tion was directed to that subject. By whom had the communication one the King, that his Physicians were coming WS to be examined ? I understood it to have bail by Dr. Reynolds. Did Dr. Reynolds make that commanicatios the King, by the advice and with the cosmos of the other Physicians, or with their kettel Dr. Reynolds meaning to Comet° town - Alai the other Physicians, had seen his Majesty alb" and mentioned it to him, I believe, wltta be' by himself, and , previous to any commits* with the other Physicians. Will you have the goodness to define. , mean by the wbrd hurry ?" Talkies pithy, ,and with quicker transitions from oat 01 ject to another: - ' Is the Committe to understand, that Tea to express an incoherent talking ? No. As you presume that the cOmmunicatiosadtei the King had occasioned the hurry you witogir do you mean to inform the Committee, that, API having a good night, the King has been in *P i n sent illness, invariably' better than when b e ", passed a sleepless night, or 'a night with sell li t sleep ? Ile has, very generally, been better at . e itssili g a good night. liar that alwass been the cue? It has not ways been the case. When you state, that you expect that the recovery will not be very distant, whet limitativa time do you apply to the words 'a very distant can apply no distinct limitation ; but io hit. jesty's last illness I was called to attend kill the 12th of February, 1i304; and his Majesty presided at a - Council, think, on the 9,3 d of following : I should expect his illness in, present case, to follow nearly the same ch IS 'in that illness ; and, , what I us, tp .have been. the case in his former Do you expect thit, dating from this day, Majesty is likely to he so far recovered *Uhl! I isonth, as to be able to preside at a C ouncil. cannot possibly give any distinct answer to, question ; there is nothitit that makes it its and .there is nothing - that leads me to 07 It so,. have you seen such symptoms of his Mir disorder, since you were examined before the Council, as to lead you to hope hit recovery -be,more speedy than you did when you iCt examined ? I think there are no circumstato lead me to expect it would 'be more speedy!. when I was examined before the Privy C01.111:111;e. Have there been- any circumstances which duced you to abate o f your hopes and ex . of a speedy' recovery ? No circumstances tea, Me to abate my hopes of his ultimate recovery' • . , 'V C furl 03' jilts E