The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-06-01 00:00:00

peered in evidence on the Records of their, own parish church. 'There was evidence in their own parish register of a marriage between Earl Berke ' ley and Mary Coles, in the year 1785. The case had been discussed in the House of Lords; had . been the common topic of conversation in the county of Gloucester ; and now the petitioneil bad thought proper to emu to that House wimp f. garbled statement. Opposite the very entr y too which they had chosen to give as to the baptism' of Lord Dursley, there was another entry; stat. jug him to be the lawful son of the partiel,• who fur reasons best known to themselves, .had kept their marriage secret. Gentlemen had sup. posed that the Petitioners might have been low. rant of what they now alleged, at the time of the election. But it was impossible they could have been so, because these very certificetes, which they now produced, had been publicly advertised, Being aware of the fact then, why did they not call upon him for his qualification at the time ? These smatters, he again stated, had been already. litigated before the Mouse of Lords, and the cer. tineate of the second marriage was had recourse to, only from a belief that the certificate of the lest marriage was irretrievably lost. These facts had come to his knowledge, and ,he thought it proper to state them. He should find the kis . re. luctanee to send the petition buk, as it would be still open to petition under the GrenvilM Act, the fourteen days nut expiring till Monday. Then', there would be an opportunity of having the mat-1 ter adjudicated by the proper tribunal. There the petitioners might be proceeded against for the penalties. Here their petition might be allowed to remain a dead letter, after their scandal SO been propagated all over the kingdom. thought the present quite a new question. He therefore wished it postponed till another day. If the House should then think the application malicious and groundless, they would be able to say what mode they should adopt for yinilicat: ing the character of the injured individual, and punishing the calumniators. He concluded, by snoring, that the debate be adjourned till Tuesday next. • The SPEAKER also desired that the Noble Lord should be apprised that a question was then. to come before the House in which he was in. terested. Mr.WYNNE thought, if theapplication should' be found to be calumnious, it would be the duty of the House to search for precedents for punish. leg the petitioners. • - Sir 3. ANSTRUTHER could not agree with .his Learned Friend (the Solicitor General) that Secant was.altogether new. It was fully discuss. ad in the case of the Westminster Election, argued , by his Learned Friend near him (Mr. Adam) and Oa Master of the Rolls. . The question of adjourning the debate till Tues. day' was then put and carried. AFFAIRS. Mr..94.,..Pyr4LlAb_moved, that the Hottse' go lute i Coremittesson East India Affairs. • Mr:CILEEVEY. opposed this, on the ground diet a very important paper, fur which he bid moved some time ego, had not been printed. He lOt,ered into 1 statement of whit had been done for the Company during the last thirty years, with ',kw to shew that they had been constantly do. clinieg,, and that the,pablic could bare no reasOn ahleespectatien that they would be able to repay . the money which they had been b mowing. The leport of the East India Committee, an extraorL dinary one, afteC,three years labours, stated the balance of four millions in favour of the Company. ,- 7 The mei which lie bad murod for, signed by thfir own Secretary, made it three millions against , thei. ,' It was therefore of the last importance that this paper should be in the hands of Members, be. fore the House went into Committee, where it was proposed to grant a million and a half to the East India Company. He should take the sense of the House on the question. Mr. DUNDAS observed, that the Hottoirable Gentleman ought to have deferred his objection till the House went into a Committee, when he would have heard the grounds on which he (Mr. 'Aunties) proposed se move the sum mentioned for the relief 004:Company. The accounts, which ,hewed the state of the Company's affairs, were in • the hands of all the Members. Mr. TIERNEY said, the paper would have been necessary, if the object had been to enter into • an examination of the whole of the accounts of the East India Company, bwt not in the preseurt in- stance. Lord MORPETII said a few words, which we could not distinctly hear, after which the Rouse ditz For the Motion AgalooLit • Msgoilty 7 -36 When strangers were admitfid; the House had g* to into the Committee, and Mr. DUNDAS wee ittifing the causes of the • difficulties in which theC:ompaoy found itself, the chief of wh*h Was; the nenibetof,Bills presented is this country for payment uPon:therr Indis debt.,l4 had been the abject of die Company, heerever l to confine their !mini le fndin i to their ; surplus revs. ' nue there, and they 'hid seeeeelied to a considers. ble extent in Madras:, and i kombay,; but there were no accounts fiom ,penge,cto 'hew „how the plan answered , theie. Bid kcomplete account of all their debts would billeid Wore the,Heuee nes,t, Session. It had ileier, been e ffpeoSe4 . these,debte, coeld be &whiled otti of illeir eemmercial pro. fits here. The edib ilebt,,eti9treetml, its ,the ao., quisition of territory , ought to 4 oi !rgf ,tl ms .the territorial reventie. The Reese .041, been in :Air habit of extending idle( to erreitants,„ but ,the Company would hue been *big fe,.seeet .*U Oaf • immense losses in inure, had it tiot .: l4eq,jes, these India bills. He prop ose d tq nipee sq. ieseeetone million and a haltof E'sehepter Hilis,(fir Alterolief of the Company, - which eeld,, *sad. , payable in time to bring the'Cptepane'i- Ws :WOO 0 6 , .W, cussion some time next.seeifon,..., ece eßtigllo lll- • ficient security for this in'tlieir st ook ip trade,, anti the debt would b e li qu id ate d 14 the Pumps' *Y. &s -fraying certain nasal expences, ip ihrliEB4, 10 4404, hitherto defrayed by the grown. Mr. D. .thee o.tvorted to the wins in whtch the compasy bsi, becalogified t which bad occasioned she deficit is f 6 ; I 1 4 • T•" • c . t. • •": • I . their 'termite taillspeeed with their int pond ito re. r — Elm lititre,wfa Roy,* prospect of their Wiwi able considerably to. redlice their military estahlish, mens, •He further Mated that. the Goverment. had called upon the Company to give licences. fur indiridua b l trade to Africa, the Red Sea, alt 4 Sou thern Continenkcif America. The House, bow. tier, wou ld haveiluture opportunity of regain. mg the India Trade in whatever manlier ,shoula appear most proper. He concluded by moving, as ab. ve, That one million and a half of Exchequer Bills, &C. Mr. CREEV EY stated, that he bad littlecoofi. ,dirseoin the security proffered for this sum. It wit remarkable, that, as to'lndia, the lion. Gentle. than had only been able to shew a decrease of de. ficit —he had said nothing of surplus. He con.. tended, in oppomition to the last speaker, that in. crease of investment,was not necessarily a source of prufit. Where the trade was a losing one, it was a means of loss ; and he referred to Lord Minto's letter; to phew , bow the matter stood in the veleta instance. The Company had com. pletely failed in their engagements to the public ; and instead of nine Anions, which they ought to have paid by this time, they had only paid 500,0001. ~Mr. DUNDA,S observed, that the affairs of the Company could not be considered es a mere mor. cantiloconeeen, ' They were not to be considered el . bankrupt,. beatific their commercial progit here could net inswer . the India bills. It might as well be said that this, country was bankrupt, because it could nut at 'once discharge a debt of Q*ooo,oool. . A Member, whose some we could not learn, stated, teat he had s letter from India, stating an hairnets et .badfaillt In the Company, .in regard to a loan contracted there. It was of the last ins. portance to preserve tiSe confidence of the Natives ; and he confessed thsil the letter in question bad al. most destroyed the remains of confidende which be had had in the Stability of the Company. Mr. DUNDAS stated, that the transaction in question was now under investigation. . Mr. gEORG E JOHNSTONE supported the motion, although he considered it perfectly deli,. sive to argue that the affairs of the East India Company were in a flourishing state. With re. ,spect to the slated reduction of the military force in tad* it was impossible, inasmuch as it was now scarcely sufficient for the protection of the territo. ries subject to•ttie Company. Mr. GRANT denied that the allegations rela. live to the insolvency of the Company were in any degree borne out by the texts, although it was tuauifest that the genets.' circulation of such ru mours, both within and without those walls, was, above all other circutftstences, calculated to pro. duce much of the evil which it was only affected to predict. It was noproof that because the coffers wf the Conspauy at home, .in coneequerice of their coupitercial end.political exertions in India, were • net toll, tient therefore the application to the coun. v . ; for as advaece of a ccftaiu sum, was haul. may. Had not, at various flutes, great char. wee bodies made such application* to the House of,Cummons ? Did net the Bank of England do so, and would It be ,contended that such an. act fully illistrateohu insolvency of that Corpora. • • acme further observations from Lord Morpeth and Mr. Prendergast, the Committee di videdi when.the numbers were -,For she Motive, Against it - 10 • ....... • . maio.riti • • .lb .. . Mr. WHITBREAD laird, vbether it.aias the: . intention of the Chancellor Of the Exchequer to take up the Report lately proientt d. by the Com. mittee appointed to inquire into the 'conduct of certain officers conneeied with the Wit funding of Exchequer Bills ? Ile wishodlo leave the sob, et wholly with Ministers, but if the proper steps were not taken, he wool() himielf submit a motion upon the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,, although he admitted the improper condtiet of some of the officers, stilt thought that is no public grievance could follow, that time should be allow. ed the Government to revisit the Ace iteelf o , and to consult upon the course' proper tO •be laken against the persons implicated. ' Mr. W HIT BREAD had no Objection. to allow time fur the revision of the office, but be wis eau. winced Out as very improper conduct was brought . borne to some of the officer; the extutiple of theit punishment ought to . be promptly' made. The Assessed Taxes Bill went through a Com- mittee. Report brought up, and further consi .deration fixed for Tuesday next. Pligt.tC EiPENDITtIitE. ' Mr. bA VI ES GIDD rb rosigh t upillb Report of the Couimittee appointed to inquire 'int° the state of the Public Expenditure. • Mr. BANK ES stated, that in rising to move en amendment upon that Report, he was solely actu. ated by a high sense of public duty—of duty so imperative as to compel him, even under the pre sent pressure of public business, to bring the sub. jest again under the discussion of the House. Im., portant as the subject was of itself, there were party . Considerations connected with, it, which considerably added to its urgency. Within a few 4 days that House was called - upon by a motion to coftect and improve its own conftitution as repro. Seating the people of this kingdom. TO this mo. . tiou he felt it his duty to give a negative. This rea ion for•that vote wai l .that he -knew it to be in seisms with that honesfand respectable portion of , Vie public, whose opinion ought to, have I very rout influent/ upon the deliberations of that ouse.. There was a time when he was no enemy • itatiterations whiCh went to correct abuttekin the tepresontation ; at that perk , he was sappoitod by the acqniticence of that body' 0( Ali tophi to . Which he alluded. Whenever ilitry - sistiat . titibkit tight So resume etch a propositnif Id l / 4 :,tr, s , Todd Bud a supporter,. _ prat ly t . iiilaOreYe .1i Cdostitutioeof that - Hamill. 'aeficti v ibii *Nile), sioald.be treated, certain joelietiAtii iiiiju were oecessary, such as tbeprpyrloo. of totolOs ipill the diainsatiWar of eipeaees a elect 001 ;, On.i ,abow• all, show boroigki alai. it niatt ~ s ~ ,corrupt _ ought to 'he elistranchlecid.' sit t . ' opt dm if the people to *whose decision he J„~ S ..~~v . . ~ . , k . , ... A' _, ..411 _TAT E. 941 API .. . .. - *veld , bow, were not clamorous for what was called reforin in the represdntition, they were most solicitous for a 4boreugh and substantial refomn in the expenditure of the public money. Whaethen became the first duty of the House I It. was to draw a line of separation between those ,e ho only wish a reform of gross acid growing abuses, and those who, under the pretext of reform, seek suli version.. At was its ditty to prevent these who were the natural silica of that House, from being .compelled by its obstinacy and perverseness from connecting themselves with its natural enemies. What other stied can the conduct of that House • have on the latter description, when they see he doors wholly closed to every pro. position for redress I When they. see it. so wed. ded to admitted abuse, as to .refese cerrection, lest danger may follow from encouraging the' slightest principle of reformand such a prac tice supported, at a moment when the. general feel. king abroad was, that there* was much to redress, end many grievances to be lightened. ...Po lion. Gentleman disclaimed the wish of withdrawing from the House, which ought to be' the fountain of, honour, any of the means it possessed of re , werdipg thistle who deserved its favour.. He had no . disposition to abridge the honours or ensigns of royalty.; and he was also disinclined to overlook the fair claims of individuals who might pier by any new arrangement.- His object was to satisfy the people, and to indemnify those whose just claims might be affected brthat satisfaction. Si. were' could not; he was persuaded, ever have been originally intended. He could not suppose that offices would have been created to which do ditties attached, and which should serve as mere camel to cover the grant of salaries. Conimon sense revolted at the supposition, and justice calked upon the House to repair that which was owing to time.' These offices hid undergone a change since their llrstestablishment, and it was due, in justice to the people, to make an arrangement suitable to the change. The opinion of the country evidently tie. mended such a change; and be did nut see any good reason on the part of the friends of the Crown for resisting it. For the holders of these Sinecures did not, in general, feel themselves bound ' in any de. gree of gratitude to the Crown, because they in general owed them to other quarters—to the fa. your of the eaisting Minister. But in fact, the feeling of the cduntey ' was so decided upon this subject, that the :cessions being now drawing to a ,close, it behoved the House to acquiesce in this measure, and thus endeavour to leave a favourable impression upon the public mind ; to grant it as an act of grace to the people, and by conceding to the wish of the sober and sound part of the com munity, withdraw so much from the object of L ithos •, who, under the name of Reform, sought •onljt .. revolution. The lion. Member concluded With moving Ise Amendment to this effect,. "That it ' would be eapinlient to abolish all Sinecures, to re duce the Salaries u( all Offices to the amount fur ilrivich the duty Nies actually performed, having deeregard to the fair .claitns of those who at pre. sent enjoy such iiffices. l o9 . . Lord. MILTON was always willing, if he could not get 'what he desired; to take what he - tatild 'got, and therefore ho would support the amendment, although he should-rather wish to live the too questions separated as to the aboli. tion of sinecures and the proposed indatotti'y.— Ainecures he had loisgeonsidere9 as the disgrace of Our system, and as materially injurious, not only ;to the interest of our anciput constitution, but 'peculiarly so to the char/Ater of that House. It was absurd to • maintain, notwithstioding all that .bad been written and said.with that view, that the 'lnfluence of the Crowe bad nut most materially iiiereased of late years, and that this. influence, which it was so desirable to reduce,- was augment. ed by the existence of sinecures. After warmly vindicating the conduct and . character of Mr. Burke, the Noble Lord adverted to the alleged economy of the proposed substitute for sinecures. That, he observed, must depend upon the pro, portion which the substitute bore to the present amount of the sinecures. lie was, .however t free to own, that he was not sanguine h expecting much its point of economy ; but he was anxious, upon other considerations 9 that sinecures should N . _ 'be dune away, - • Mr. BASTARD exSorted - the House to cond. der the justiasend policy which ought -to prompt cuncesition to . the wish of the people at a time when their pecuniary contributions were so enor. 1 moos, and their cordial aid so essential to the de. fence of the empire. If Parliament did not learn the propriety of such a system of concession in due time from the awful example of surrounding nations, Parliacneut must be incapable of common ' docility.' . . • Mr. BATHURST' conceived that Gent!emen I seemed anxious to get rid of Sinecures without 1 my object,of practical utility in view. From the 1 nature of the proposed substitute for those Sine. 'ires no saviog*was looked for, and when Gentle. men talked of their eagerness to du away a mere shine, because it might be somewhat obnoxious, were they sure, or bad they any reason to calcu. late that their favourite substitute would not very. soon become equally unpopular ? It appeared to him, indeed, that the substitute was likely to be.. Come more unpopular, because it held out to the publiC the semblance of a desire to remove a bur. thin, while it only got rid of a name; because, in 'tact, it involved an attempt at delusion. tic le r k 'Swaged the attention paid to subjects of this um. ture, in which no foal or material reform Auld, be atchieved, hecapse that iitteution served to ithdraw that House a ril the public from a consi.. .. - oration of ; the 4groat establishments . of the Milli - ' L 7 its witys ; reform and yetrenclittient were co tVily , a4treeep , and , practicable. i i • The Right 4913 * tireaoeastep concluded with eatusesiug his in. gen tion to aiPpesp ihe emendmettt. •I , . Mr. B' TIJORNTQX, spoke in favour of the imendinent.. He denietthiakthe passage cited from Mr. Burke in favour of mow iisseci4ras, was an Inthority. IP favour of adi sinecures. He cons • tented on the TOWN MINIS cogcurring ip prodac. lag the jealousies of theireople. A netleu,of ma. ,giu factoten geoid emtet t pOsponlmsteti as a nation of .agricisituriiii; hesidu, there was so greet - Infuse of popalatiaaa ) and sash a course of • . . • 1" -- -7 ..4 .- t .::' t - 7 .- ' 7 7. • s •. • I • • , .•:. • • • • ' •-4 • ir • ' • 1 ;Tr tics haellakess place as brought home that subject to every man's .feelings, and of course' extended knowledge, fiscilitotiel the communication of that species of Issuirleilie was by the periodical press. Mr. BATHLIRnI explained. Mr. At'DOiNtiEle paid many complimeets to the assiduity and steady perseierance evinced by 11'6 Hop. Gentleman (Mr. Bankem), in the prose. eutiow of an effectun, financial reform, noteritit. staneling all the uhstrietions thrown in the way of his labours; by his Majesty's Ministers. li e thought that the present was an opportunity which. the House ought not to let pan, of giving th e people a Proof of its sympathy in their wish es . The people wished for a moderate Constitutional Reform. %%riven. he spoke of the people, he did not mean the small handful of furious zealots, o r designing demagogues :—he meant the . great body of thepeop)e, who were equally burdened, though less clamorous. The Rause wes bound not oily to consult their real interests, but not to bain. Afferent to their wishes. it had been . objected that the projected saving was too 'W ere the Right lion. Gentlemen opposite prepared to furnish the Howe with a statement of economy upon a broader scale? The country had se e n enough of their economy and their frugal plans fur burying our blood and treasure in the swam, s of Holland, and the rivers of Spain. Substituted pensiuus were every way preferable to sinecures. Th o o ne was done in the open day—the other was of that underhand nature, calculated to create dis. trust, and of course excite discontent. He ex. horted the House not to let .the present Session come to a close without giving the people some sign of their wishes to give them every reasonable satisfaction in their power. Mr. WI LLIAMNA Y 1.04 spoke in favour o( the amendment. - Mr. WILBERFORCE rose amid a general cry of " Question !" lie said hodid Not rise to go at all into the orpiment, slid should content him. self with simply stating it as his opinion, that at all times, and especially at present, it would be true wisdom, and was a part of their duty, to remove, as far as could beAone, all grounds far distrust of that-11°mo ou the part of the potpie. It was true patriotism to shew to the pe o pl e of England that that House was tnosi anxious at all times to gaud well its their good opinion. lie would not now argue the question, but II was nut easy to suppose those persons serious who spoke of pensions proving as unpopular as.the abolished sinecures: Sinecures were must unpopular—pen. sinus were, 'in many lust:vices, popular and jus. tifiable. lle should vote for the Amendment. Mr. 'LONG shortly replied: he said- that there was no proof that Sinecures were enpOpular, bat the opinions of those llonourable Gentle en who stated that they were so ; awl asked, if they were prepared .to say, that substituted pensions would not be as unpopular as Sinecures were al. !eged to be? The Gallery was cleared for a division, when the numbers were— For the Amendment - - • lob Against it - • - td✓ majo►ity In favour of Mr. Danker —lO While Strangers were excluded, Mr. BAN aES addressed the Members in the lobby, requesting that•they would nut go away, as he meant to divide upon the other Resole. lions. On our admittance, we found Messrs.. Perce►al, Bankes and Yorke, and Lord Milton, engaged its a short discussion upon the point of form, at to the putting the question on the Resolution and the Amendment. The Speaker interposing, stated, that the motion atfecting,the Piper he then held in his hand, must be first disposed of. The House then divided on Mr. Ihukes's second amendment to the Report ; which amendment we understood to be in substance as follows : '• That it is expedient to reduce nil ()Sees dmie by De. putt/ ; . and that Security should he requirrti for the dae Per formance of the Dmitri attached to the Otlice." —Moved. Sit an amendment to third Quettilin No. 11. On this amendment the numbers were-- . Ayes 111--Noes 100—Majority in instate oi Mr. Ilankes's second amendment, 11. Strangers were not again admitted, aed the House adjourned at half past two this morning., ------ • ---- - Among the presentations to his Majesty at there. vee on Wednesday, was the Duke of ALl:unmet/us, the new Spanish Ambassador, Who has so mach distinguished himself in fighti✓►g the battles of his country, and particularly by the uncom►uonly rs. pid march that saved Catlin. His Excellency is of a very elegant figure, of a fair cun►plexion, • atul a very animated and intelligent countenance. He war most becomingly dressed is &yellow, or rather lemon-colour 'uniform, richly ernameuted with silver .lace, over which he wore the ribbon of onw of the Spanish orders. He went and returned in Marquis WELLesney's carriage. The Candidates for Fortune's fat ours next Friday are numerous. -• It is not astonishing that Tvauch's Office, No. 1,. Skintiet-street, Stiowhill, should be in such esti mation, and so much preferred by the host of par. chasers in the present Lottery, when we perceive the polite attention to all persons, and recollect the unexampled success which has attended the num. hers he sold in the last year's Lotteries, namety r four prizes of 20,000 t. and the grand packet of Tickets, which produced_ 21,7651. being near . 60001. more than the highest money viz; ; and in this Lottery, to be drawn four days after the King's birth-day, a Ticket Can gain 100, 00 " ; Shares in proportion. In fact, one sixteenth cars gain 60601. if bought at To apnea, Skinner-street. • DtEp. On &today hut, at blarasioa, is Corawall, is IWd vootro Pascoe Greaten, Erg. of that place, father of Parecue area. fell, Ertl. M. P. On Tuesday mornitkg, at his home in Berlfbid-royr, Blake; Esq. hanker. Lately, William Desbormigh, Eq. of Hemingfurtt, one of the 'Merano of Mt. Oa the 29th Mt. at P/ortshoeth, tits his return from Ma' deist, R. Small. Po 4. at Upton Ileum ' mew. Iketerslity; at Moittnehans, In 'Kent, Mr. W ilium Restieno, o(Rood-lasse, osettbant. _L • shit It aa 1 LONDON • Printed and Prtiti*" tied D Loy eta. at tire. 11 . emu• Tart/114S (reties, 57. iret-strett- ..