The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1808-04-13 00:00:00

s hould arose that they existed upon the present tie entre...ted the House to reflect upon the c o ,sequences that would ensue front returning the si,,ktuatures. It would give rise to twiny itt....tio4s, and excite agitttiou in the public mind. ts :4 . _.: i us t these consequences he should wurn . It 141', being anxious that the great hotly of t i.eo e ld of Irelaod should not be imprope:ly Besides this, he should press upo.i the ni4.2, that one of the consequences of opposing L:e l'.:ti! ion in this early sta;e, might be to provoke di - satisfaction iu the great mass of the peot.le, tOttch he concaved it was in the power of itni.e to prevent. _ _ . . . Mr. GRATTAN concurred with the Right Hon. 13.1.1:01 , 1 who had last si..oken, that the rejection ' t.i the Petition would cause misconception and ex si:seontent among the Catholic Bode. It was • itt-iy impossible, in the CAIN: of a Petition so Is e ,er.,';y signed, that the object could be tuisin sery-eted. He denied the observation respecting toe Ilaacileater Petition as applicable to toe pre • A. one, and aided, that the other House hariug • - cl : receirol a similar Petition, the rejectiou of • tais House would excite a prejudice; nougat da: a iaiir ttheir representativesin the elotise o C1..:.:10a4.-13 the Irish Parliament, he r:inetn herr.: to have presented a similar Petition from 60 (.1.70 Itotii.ui Catholics, of whom only a few :non: awls were letnal signatures, yet no such 06- leCt:o4l wes made to it. It must be a matter of suai.2 moment to consider the dairy that must be c.c.-r.loaed before it would be returned and pre i..ved t.ta.t unobjectionable manlier. If, however, ti at mode should be iiisited upon, he thought it was slot his fault in having stated the real circum stances of the ease, nor could any Llama attach to bin in taking . upon himself the respoasibility of traii.mAting. it, and falling the Catholics again ir..7.thet:. He thought it, however, the wiser source , is e.itiou in i.O present state. t*. 1.111:51.F 0 lICL ei , ,,--essed his regret at being nreier .th' , necessity of alt sin the llouse to ett fc.ic- the cvneral rule strictl3 . :, however anxious he noithl hare been to hare received the petition in its r:ate, to pretet.t any misconception that Le entertained allsoad. lr.'hiesxtT again insisted that it was most yis to have the 'louse as open a. poswble to Peti tioners, and that tit: general rule should Ise waved in. the - present important occasion. The :•reaesta repeated the opinion which be had already given, and added, that he did not con gado.- it a disrespect to hint se hear any gentleman I;itler from his opinion, as it wet addingto the etioeinei stock of that information which ought to gitt,io tie House in its general conduct. The par boil w!as presented a pe-tition;vas mil! , answerable to the best of his knowledge with respect to the signatures being genuine, but in a case like the present, when it was actually stated that many of them were not so, Cie daily practice of the House chewed that the Petition could not be saved w . .tbout stipulating the one from the other. It reillained, L. wever, with the House, to say whether it would etade l,y its general rules or not. The ettiolcaLLos of the ExcasQoea entpressed Lis hope, that the Right Hon. Gentleman would withdraw the Petitien,and thereby save the House from the paiuful necessity of voting for its rejec tion. lie confessed he could Dot otherwise than opi..••se it in its present state. He did not see any eircum,tances so singular in this case that would not apply to any set of petitioners in any large dis trict of the kingdom, and it would be attended with dalizenoits eposequencts to allow the rule to be thus geoeislly iiiirmerd. If, however. the Right Hon. Gentleman thought he advanced the case of the Pefitseheis, by unfits:roaring to sepamte the tiro description's of tinstuirs, he would think that course the ui iirh.ante.;teou., even although they should be reduced to a lien, 0: even ten real nate--. NVe!e soca the ew.e, Lc Nhot.l3 not entertain the le4st e..t it •a,.uld still contain the real sense Of OW jof tile Irish Cat holies. It was of Cie utsno,4 roriber ! uetsce so adhere to the ge neral tole. and he Sines, with respect to the Man cliester Petition, that iiiany of the pervons purport iv • t) II:s1t signed, knew nothitig of the use made nr :I.sir names fro the occasion. he could state, L;e•ii the aiithority.of •omc Members who had re teived letters from their Conitituents, • that ti/air names had been eshihited to the Pe without consulting them. Sir JOtt,l Nen PORT averred: that, in the ease of the Petitio,iers from Cork, they had actually signs I their Petition, and were as respectable a set of nit:-chsats as an, in tile kingdom. Mr. %VI s Dil t M was of tyiniou that the Petitio.• Wit.; ;.^rf •it ' s s :1116%1!)1 • a d the actual Lieu es Ibe reduce d to sou or • yen 30 no ne a, the efiart of an adherence to the general role woold he atteirled with ;fruit int oliveastruce. exclusion of tile irregular statues null sufficiently mark that a Petition could only be received as the act of tleee nail realty Nigned it. :tn.. )(nitric felt irissioas that the Petition should Le re cal vet!, if the exeeptioashle names could lie e, c lt o ted. 17,000 MI/IbirS tware no propor tion to the actual number of Catholics in Ireland, mild coati - Nue:idly it could be of no importatice teethe: the inCiiiber was much greater or lest thi n t! : .••• ...hid ] appeared to the Petition. Fe: re esin alit :vied tilt a special entry should be made of thr rval quourt v. St".!..eta-y CAN/41, a agreed entirely with riik• but `lpt!'ikt-r, as he was air.ious that some mode r!cbit.cd to sate the House the painful ..e, tf 'ejecting the Petition. The main :11. w tr, that ate inwlulti..:lce afforded in the p7i case, you'd is all future one=, - . .‘!tether em . iracing oi i pcts of it geNtance or not. Ile was of th.st neither the number, po'w'er, ucr res t ioetabiiity of the l'ezi;:on rs, nue,tht to induce thr Hon.!: to 1-4ry it'. settled rule. 114.: fiAt the of .a Beet as 'Mach as i,r titan, zi he iloi a i. ttuit when it came he disr:lo4cd the flow« would enter upon it N . 0 , the rocs:. rtioolls and attention, without •hJi•et4 prejudice or p r n•i_nt•r,t. lie wit; ether it wcAiltl nor he Irv, tionn c eecy.s t. rtlatt the rule in the ca,:c Petition from a 5•.1.41 t k ia in the eitse of a lart : e ptuple, aitme to,. r ht mid number tril z ic, 6e urief is thee,. the s•mail imdy more it.•; : ilraa, and lef,i to support their 11•• f , iought the 1;i: ht Ceittl• trida w:to precuitcil entitled to thanks for his candour is netts. the &amities which were likely to stand in the way of its being received. lie might, however, relieve himself from them, if he could separate the real from the irregular signa tures. If he thought he could do this, he had only to withdraw it for 94 hours, in order to con sult those who had put it into his hands. He was sorry it had been presented in its present imperfect state, when a few hours reflection might have pre vented the risque which the house run of incurring displeasure, and save the Right Hon. (ientlerniu, from the responsibility that at tach to him. Mr. t DRAM observed, that the number of the Petitioners made complete cOrrectuess more diffi cult, and mistake* more excusabli.. The conversation email:tied for some time in the same line of argument, between Mr. GRATTAN, Mr. WHITBREAD, ;11r. Wm. SMITH, MT. M. FITZ GERALD, for the Petition, and the CAANCLELOG Of the EXCHEQUER, ME. CANNING, and Lord CAsTLEREAGH, on the other side. The result was, that it was agreed, that the Petition should be withdrawn, for the purpose of being transmitted to Ireland to be rectified. • DEFENCE OF THE COUNTRY. _ Lord CisYl.lsii;o - u, pursuant tc notice, rose to explain the reasons for proposing certain altera tions in the Military Establishment adopted by the last session. It occurred to him tut he should first take up that branch of the military system that was of the most importance; namely. the Regular Army, and the Militia. He was happy in stating, that, in regard to these, the measures late k adopt ed rendered it unnecessary for him at present to propose any further regulations. The ordinary system of rerruitiug had added no less than 40,000 rank and file to the then establishment of the re gular army. This being the case, he ghoul I, with. out further observations on these branche., come to that which was of most importance i t itself. ‘• There was then, I contend, no possible mean* of ascertaining the extent of the volunteer force.— This evil has always beea felt, and, from viewing the circumstances of the established force of the country in this litht, I heve, since ever I have suceetalatal to the bituition I now hold in • His Ma jesty's Government, considered it my duty to pro pose to Parliament some measure of reform respect ing the established aulitary force, whatever iniAlit be the difficulty or labour attending a task, which it was too probable might prove invidious and thankless. The most effectual means of render- lug the military system more couipetrut to the de fence of the country, he w procure an as-ist ance to the regular force, whether orthe line or the militia, of an auxiliary nature. This embraces the whole scope and design of those altersti IDS I shall have the hn.tour to suggest to the Hoe .e.— Looking upon the army of Great Britain as a de fensive army, I acknowledge nothing can wore cootnbute to its support than the ei,tablish I.cit of the volunteer body, which, acting es a sub.i•liary defence to the nacre regular treotis, mi/ht prove of the utmost value and advantage to the safy of the Cpwatry, should it be compelled to task • head aapsinst the enemy on its own sbuiva. And ei,old that hour arrive whet the fete of the country is to be-decided by the internal strength of the country, there is as portioa of We Majesty's subjects in whom I neadd ISOM ceefide, than the graben eer army of the countq, for whom, although I may darer from the Right list Gent. opposite me, - I have ever eatertatued the atanotst possible respect and attachment. Though I ass - ready to acknowled that never has the &laws of the country 3-e ware aim end alicient thereat the ureseat '- Lucas yet as the voloateer Oral:Ell is founded en the spirit and voluntary contrio •ttott of the publics which, whether in peace or wsr, equally valuable (for in the present state of politic m Europe,• state of peace may require ne t . - protection of a weli-aminged army than a state of a war,) it would hence ..e extremely unwiae and imprudent to teat on t •s voluntary zeal and activity, since it might be alt drawn, or might diminish at any moment in so great a degree as to leave the country on a and len destitute of it 3 chief support and defence. Such a line of coutiuct would only tend to betray a nar row ues, of policy whi,l was content with 'lowans towards the present moment, totally regardless of futurity ; and it would place the Ministry of this countav in this awkward situation, that should herralter a peace honourabletti both c•untries he conclud,d, the very arrangements the Ministry, if they were not totally blind to the interest of the country, would have to snake, in order to place the army ens better and more effective footing in these kmgdom3 during the interval of peace, would of themselves be rafficient to awaken the suspicion of those countries with whom we were then on terms of peace. A cit.( utastance which must be alto gether hostile to the continuance of an a nimble tinderstansling between this nation and the Conti nental powers. The pertnaiiincy and diiicipline of the array must ii!so ue t o nside ed of the utmost importance in a further point of view than a= it im mediately relates to the defeat* of the country ; for if there be any chance • of meeting the elis cutosion of a peace an fair, honourable, and just ground-, it certainly will be in convinc. c• the enemy that the pnriciole ou which the military sr -- tem is constituted, and the spirit of the taeople, are such, as that there exists no possibility he should eve: succeed in bringing this country into subjection to sus power. From all these conirdemtions, it becomes absolutely necessary to lay the foJndatio. - . of our military defe.we, not dependent on the iolutitary seal of the country. It is necessary this should be permanent, and never on any ace/soot should it be subject to be suddenly reduced beneath the force voted by Parliament, on a former occasion, necessary for the nuhlic safety. Hering said so much on the ge neral outline of the plan I shall shortly submit to the Howie, I have but a very few observations to make In the military system as it exists at pre sprit, and shall then proceed to Aide to the HO ire the amendments and alterations I have, ill Lon juietann with other', of whose counsel I shall al ws-.-e he happy to avail myself, considered rieces- Fury for peril' ;Mg, as ::sr as possible, the mittary establishments throoghont.the kingdom. nailer a farmer Administration, the same ends which the present amendments are expected to accomplish, were proposed to be effected by the Traininz Act. How fur %hie mods has been successital I will not haw Liebe apes me to &Aide; lint viewing it et 11 did, it appeared to me neceentry, to propose to add.to that Bill, last Session, COI Olus amendments for more effettually enforcing the ballots through out the different counties by which the protested force was to. be raised. The measure appeared to me to be not a compulsory, but an.enabliag Bill, subject to the future regulation of the House. The force to be raised by this Bill, which was then expected to amount to 300,000 men, was to Le raised by ballot, and subjected to the management of perish officers, who were to officiate in the double duty of officers of the peace, acid drill serjeauts to the different corps. -My view of this measure is, that taking into considerution the ne (smeary enders foe puttuag the Bill into execution, allowing time for ballutting anti collecting the men thus raised, they would be• for • great part of the year altogether wit of your power, and hence they would be so long without making any progress en the use of antis. But the greatest pom Bible objection to the measure is, that ants all these abstractions, there is no provision for regimenting the persons so prepared by the Training Act.— On this subject I have always had but one opinion, and that is, that there are no means so fair or so efficacious for procuring and disciplining effective forces in the country, as regimenting "them similar ly to the forces of the bile. If the whole system alluded to could have been effected without affect ing the dispositioa or wearying the patience of the coaster, which might be ultimately disinclined to support such extraordinary levies; yet it would still, from this one radical defect, produce no con siderable advantage to the public service. Though I run inclined to doubt, that the mere working et our military system would provide us, notwithstand ing the dismission of the aged and infirm veterans,. with an abundant supply of soldiers from these trained bauds, as has been maintained, yet 1 am willing to admit, that under certain regulations that measure would be productive of the utmost benefit. Acting, then, on this principle, the pro positions I have to suggest will be foun d, I trust, capable of providing to the country as excellent permanent supply. I am happy to say such is the present state of-the national force, and such our internal strength, that it may he openly can vassed and investigated, without apprehending the enemy can thence derive any advantage over us. This ausouilted in the total to 200,000 rank and file is regulars and militia. It is intended, by augment ing each company to 100 rank and lilt, to rare this force to 150,000 rank and file. These additional troops it is not my intention to raise by applying to the ballot by the Training Bill. The Right Hon. Member's bill might be of much service in leading out these men to be exercised at certain stated in tervals, fur four and twenty times at one poSied of the year, and four and twenty times wheat ano ther period of the year; and finally embodying them for the space of twenty-one days, iu eases of extreme danger or under apprebensious of iava hist. Bat it still might, I fear, he productive of consider able disadninleges, by compelling the country in ge to take up arms. So long as she voluuteer wilt assist, with all his might, the Government, the volunteer system is by far the best of all.— But as necessary swasshaeld-drecide be *tiptoe taiiier force to be raised, so it Mao becomes our duty to see that as nextly as possible that supply maw be readered permanent and uniform. It is necessary the regular army shell be placed on so sure a foundation, that it shall on no occasion feel the decrease of the volunteer force. Some, I have heard, insist loudly on the necessity there existed ter an enlarged force,aod considered the-present as by no rums proportioned to the emergencies of the country; in part, 1 agree witb.theu.,anti it will be (quo& tu reviewing -the statements I shall make to the Howie hereafter, that, it is my intentios, acting on the principles of my Right Honourable Frieutf, (Mr. 'l'orke, we pmume) viz that the training Come should supply six times the number of men ccianprised in the militia, to raise in this country a body of troops 330,000 strong; to phich, if the effective, in Ireland, amounting to 70"100 rank and • file, be added, it will give a product not only ep paper bat in fact, of 400,000, independent of the 60,000 proposed to be added to the militia and regulars by an augmentation of each company. Tbis will he fouud to supply a force which, whatever may be the exertions of the enemy, will place tie completely-I)es . os d the reach of his malice. The ef fective force of the volunteers has been calculated a; 390,000 rank and tile. of which 440,000 have beer* seen under inspection ; the reports of their strength and discipline Lave been extremely favourable to the country and flattering to themselves ; and have exec presumed to state their capacity to act in concert with the regular army, however unfit the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite may think them to 1:4 seen in such company. The gross amount of the volunteer establishment is at the rate of six times the number of the Militia, defi cient by 30,000. The effect of the plan I Ipropose will be to increase this supply by a ocal militia, amounting to 60,000 rank aid tile, Though there be at the present no immediate ne cessity for any additional demand, yet, as we cannot tell the moment in which it may be notes wry, it is of the utmost importance this country should be in a complete state of defence. The pre sent increase of • local militia will be one of the usual kind, 'either repugnant to the feel ings or prejudices of the semidry ; and it is to he hoped it will be the meet easy means whereby we may effect our purpose. the pre sent militia is formed on the principle of the standing army of regulars, and appointed for main taining the out-post* throughout the country. The local militia, for the same reason., shall not, but io cases of particular emergence or danger, be com pelled to remove out of its own county. In the service of the Trainiag Act, the peewee enrolled are required only to serve le months. This previ sion I think totally inadequate. No military knowledge whatever can be acquired in that short space of time ; no degree of discipline can be in fused throughout these green 'applies, notwith standing ail the trouble of balloting and collecting them. I have therefore to propose, that the term of service be increest.d, although the term of ac tual mein shall not he equally extended. Those drawn in the local manta cell be sent out to prac tise the use of arms only for a very short period, and bcing before apprised of this period, they wilt ham &moppet:init.( of prepinn‘ and improving Cheat thus prier•ta thtir,appeatsoee an* first, regulation I shall propose will, be that relatikg to lot i.titutioa. This principle has been admitted iu llicregulu, ; but as l conceive there will not exist die sante objection to serving in the local utittis, winch it is not my Lite - shwa rhosild bt ems pioyel lOr more th..ii three weeks in learning the martial exercise and regular discipline, there will be this inducement, at least, to engage than drawn in this local militia to serve personaily. But the system of iUbSlitUtiell is also liable to this ob. . . jectiu - n, tlist f it were permitted in the locel mili. .tia, its influence weukl bt so great, that in ettect it would prove a tax Oil diepublic. Subathtstism necessurily would he connected with a bounty to the substitute. This, if provided by individual.. would be a very great private burden, at.d the exemption ',you'd be of pernicious ensequences to the general spirit requisite to carry the useasmire into effect ; and if the bounty were provideid - ty the parivh or distract, it would become an iosups. portable public burden. Heuce 'tis intruded to prevent all substitution of service, except to nick pertains as ere willing, on the plan of the Ttintring Act, to purchase their exemption. by eu►asitciet to a tine to be imposed by a pro►iwaa or the Act I hail to-morrow submit to the House. Another pruvinioa of this Bill wilt be formed so as to presses* the subiltituts of the parish from became% the substitute also of the ; to effect di* it shall be coutiderciLlualjn the selanker-ftester for the parish, and penal in the parish for bribint - him to becunie a substnete. The next considento ten is the class of persons on whom the service to he thrown. There are in this respect two council that may be pursued, one relative te the limitation of yearseertiother of a more general nature. The principle of this biU is not de novo to create this force. It proceeds on the old established principio which iius beet, so often acted upon, though perhaps never before so far advanced. Tile years of service are to be confined from the age of le to that of 55 ; since it has been generally fount, t that after that age there is rather too great ..is a difficulty, if not an iinpossibility, in teanisfot melt the 'tee of army. It is of the utmost kat purt.nce that the officering of these regiments( levies should fall into the heeds of nen of wooed confidence, iutegrity, and property. Heacesi shall not propos* to swerve from the qualifier. tions required in the regular militia, urea in the local militia. As faros the rank of captain, them iv - scarcely ally qualidiation in either neeesearveia With respect to field4Acers, it is rev, dilteraulls and justly so. There is no dealt hitt tßerewlllent foetid meey indneements to mea of •• property mid bi..th character accepting held ollteere *unitises, who would not accept oftbem in thin reeler luilitias One retaliation, however, there is, with _respect to thequalineatieneffield-edicere,nainely,mie in fare& of those a ho • hail retired from the service in the hue of rnilitia. The neat point Worthy of attentiett is,lhe propriety of permitting the new rteas not in the bast to interfere with the regular ?reveal,* service. • Hence no matt is to be pretreated from ca tering the:kilo- or militia who happens to have en. tiered originally for limited meek"; et theseme thin that no *von idthrleeetusilltio ledl be perm' to *het from it" info other reginsents der ng tie ierru appropriated for obtainitig a knowledge of discipline and arms. Another nereeeiiry provisidis is, our for permiting %Amite& corps to - become corps of local militia. Matiy corps of volunteers may find their advantage in it : several of them are very expensively dressed, largely fined, and founded on too expensive a scale. Hence it Would • only be judicious to meet this disposition to chant* their foundation, and hence they would become part of the effective forte of the country. To pros vent any thing like insurance, I Shall repose a double fine on all" species of insurauee . agoiset these levies, on the party insuring and the tastily.. The great adiantage of this plan of raising a hip ply of force over others- is, that first it tends to render them speedily much better soldiers, as also effscts it at indri . less expense ; whets it it col:sit - lewd' that by * the late act there were coil. siderable expenses interred by going out twice ht the year for 24 darn, and Co: coati agent expense that tr4it be incurred by beim; called out for tl any, additionally. The total expense of each soldier to Governmein is the laical militia would not amount to more than tl.. per annum. The time for which this militia shall he enebudied will not be mord than 28 days at the utoost, independent of the time spent in * t rivia* at the place of rendeevons. It has Len supposed that a much larger body of men are requital', And that the country is able to hear it ; tine, " t anst admit, should not be treated with indifference. A Right Hdnourable Friend of mine has calculated an addition might he made to the pre,ent estimate, of 250,000 rank and file, maktng an xgf t regate of 650,000 men, which would always give i lisher in war or peace, a force on whicb the enuntry could rely with security, since the only difference hetweeri the war and pea. es t a bli s h m e n t would consist in the reduction of t 1 e regiments of the line, and the disbanding the re. zeiar militia. Oa this bead I have only to say, there seems no neces,ity to bring . more men into the field than this sill will prov ide. An armed peasantry is • chimera by which nothing can ever he effected, pa...titularly Considering the nature of this country, and the dispositions and habits of its inhabitants. It would be breaking the back of the country to expect more from her then is reasonably necessary. The present plan will, I am happy to say, secure to it a regimented force of 490,000 men, to be disposed of, in cam of nay trrinz emergence, for the security and ef fecttai defence of t 6 country. I am happy the recess will intervene between the discussion el the ineasuie and the presenting the Bill to the liaise. which, if the House will give me leave, I shail take the liberty of doing to-morrow, the Bill shall then he printed, sod I shall be extremely happy to have, in the interval, the private, comma. ticatione of any of my friends on the subject, and the counsel of the members in general, when it shall come to he considered after the holidays, and when I shell, I trust, be willing to accede to any real protect of amendment, or public convenience and advantage?' Mr. YORKE approved of the plan of the Right Han. the Secretary at Ai'ar. thoo4lit ti at we ought to !.v.- a vie menent kcal mi:isia. end that this was the tune to establish that He e ould have this local militia drilled wit the