The Statesman. — London, England, 1822-03-01 00:00:00

gid ill . ll.lll.ima t We. Nn. B roo k es eas as Nithe latter point vas lewd attending to, as it furnished a further apeci. rill of the peculiar mode of investigation adopted b, the Mme. The name of the woman who was hart MO ABM DOW. The examlnadon of Mis. Brookes ow n all es fellows :—" Is obi h otarried woman ? ..fie whdow. Wu she • sosallitised wonsast— Aka the sill that lam ; she is rather alight." And hating obtained ties much from this witness, they yet d,„, ,h t it seemeery to pot this goestio•-•-“ Is she a 0 ,1 r•—.. No, she is as old asl aim" Tie/ pour woman who was wounded was examined herself. She stated t h a t s he west by with the funeral—that lathing hap pened wises the foam' went by. except that a soldier shook his fist at a wisdom. She then stated that she est strait with a stone or brick but from the whole of het aumisation it was quite apparent that this took ow Ile the return of those who accompanied the fune ral; Ire heist% asked which way was bet fats at (bodily., „b e s t a ted that it was directed towards Oxford-street, sad that +he was going towards London. The next al 'rodeo of importance which Mt. Sheriff Waitlimao phi f am ed was to the following effects—P. Immediately several of the soldiers rushed at me with their swords demo, and use actually loaded his carbine and directed it towards met but was, as 1 am leformed, knocked down hr see of thwcosstables."—Now this *as an allegation of se mach importance. that if true, it claimed the int deomediatn,e istetforeacebe of authority but In reading this owoed he could a wl did one syllable to be* out the allegation that a soldier loaded his car bine aid abated it towards the Sheriff. He (Met P.) should have thought that the testimony of the con stable who was represented as heels, knocked down the soldier would have been quite oeseinsive. Bert on re f er ring to the evidence of that Orson, what did he state? This witness hiring said that he saw a soldier with a turbine in Isis hand levelling it in t mayor' which he described, was farther asked this questions — "Wh a t was your idea of his pointing I was it that be wandeltiog sat the Sheriff ?-1 cannot say that," fee. He was then asked—" Was it in that position that it ap peared to be presented at Sheriff Weidman ?" and what was the answer?—" If I were upon my oath I could not state that." Aod this was the testimony of the man, who, it was said, knocked down the soldier that pre seated his goo at the Sheriff. It was not his (Mr. Peel's) intention to criminate Mr. Sheriff Waithenan; bet he most say there was a waist of due consideration is poldag forward some of his allegations, which ought astatally to induce very considerable doubt as to the aright to be attached to the whole. Then was only eMelbeaßegation remaining to which he would M oulds attention of the House. The Sheriff proceeded ufiffiews:—" When I desired some of the constables lempsineat to the °Meer* in the most respectful terms, ogle** that the soldiers should he kept within the bunch', the message returned was. ' that the Sheriff wield be d—d; they would not maketheir men prisoners Sat bo.'" The goatee would remark particularly the twos of this allegation. became the evidence would ahoy sack a variance between one part of the passage sail tie testimony of one of the witnesses, as to make as additional ground of doubt with respect to the whole of the charges. It appeared from the evidence of one of the constables who went into the barracks far the. purpose just stated. that he had no orders fres the Sheriff to go thither, hot that he undertook the matter voluntary, for the rsssona stated by himself. Ile demist, in any case, the answer represented to have len loot back was most improper, if it really was tattled. Bat in addition to all the grounds of thebidolliek boiled shown behoged to these alleeatiass, these all+ s i t a wies pasitives denial his Hos. end Gallant Ttiaad,Niaaabariaalragoastersbire. But to show the vane= the Sherif and the officer Levi, it was sly May to read part of the evidence of the latter. • Cflimi'dli you antler gave you authority to go to Ilerlieslis sad see the officer, and giteeNr. Waithman's reinint2--Because I saw danger would occur from what was gubw se." He did sot mesa itapug a the conduct of ales_ Ater, who, in a case of emergency, would make no of a same of authority for the purpose of obtaining Stith greater success so desirable an object as the testa ratios oforder and peace* be only ads(' ted to the pas sage fee the ;purpose of comparing allegations with proof, and to show bow completely. in this instance, tier varied with each Ober. These were the only ape alai allegations which be thought were of sufficient MS lattisce to deserve attention. Bat he could not avoid saying that there were, both in the petition's of the Cons oles Council and in the letter of Mr. Sheriff Waithman, reeds g I allegations which it would he impos sible to meet by any practical refutation. Such, for in stance, as the following:—" At a critical conjonctnre the soldiers were left to their own exasperated feeling, tad manifested a lawless spirit"—" that the Sheriff was left to protect the people against the attacks of an infu riated soldiery"—and "that the gates bring opened the toldiersruslied on t and attack.d the multitude, without distinction of age or sex." Now, with respect to the latter charge, he supposed that it would be sufficient for its refutation, to say that with, he believed, one excep tion, there was no serious wound inflicted on any of the waltitude. Upon the whole, then, he was of opinion thu there was no case made out to warrant the house in esseurring with the motion. It was matter of surprise, that if the case of outrage was so strong as it had been ' , presented, why not appeal to the ordinary tribunals of the conntry ? Why no criminal prosecution? Why no attempt to obtain redress? Witt.), on the other hand, he considered that every exertion was made by the Sheriffto quell disorder and tumult—when such a body of ronetald... as were stated to he present bad been collected for the purpose—he could not con ceal his surpr i se that, notwithstanding all this prepara tion, and notwithstanding the occurrence of so much ontrsge as it was said haul been committed, yet not one man was apprehended throughout.. He was ready to admit that the whole bent of the evidence showed that the wouthy Sheriff was actuated by a disposition to maintain order and peace. Allowing to the worthy Sherif all the credit that was due to this laudable nao ttu,it was not too much to say that it must bare been melds the k now l e d ge o f t h e worthy Sheriff that his pre ac _ vas not lik e ly t o pro d uce O tos e d es i ra bl e resu lt s u p on S. aloccasion. H e c ou ld no t acquit the Sheriff of hay ser forgotten on that day the station in which lie was ;if, and th e li ne o f con d uct t h at was becoming in for whose duty it was to conciliate and pacify. Was y 'or instan ce , decorous for the worthy Sheriff to ad dressf the niultitnde in such I •nenog eus this : Hissing Is not th e manner in which y O u can annoy the soldiers— the only way le which yon can annoy them is to remain quiet —iyis this an expression fit for a preserver of then "este! He did not withhold from the Sheriff the r ‘, r . ed . i . t of good intention.; but such a mode of carryin ' l . dispositio n into effect was not that nhich any coo l ! nitrate opl on m .n anwon Id have adopted. lie would repeat thrt" 'thue application that of o ease bad been made oat to sap. the worthy Alderman to the hment o r the House. rte saw nothing in the military I::itnhadlisy io it r e as n a t ura l to expect eircnstancesin which they were put. te t.wri n t. h i r k.. r . r ia yir . as rai se d that two of their comrades were at no overpowered by the multitude, and what . ' , : i r a , d ,r - r u :e th as e i a t ni t , it a t they mated out in a viol e nt ma n n er Tonate persons from imminent danger? t'fhlrali w.ene nn . .t ry t conv iction of his mind th ere f ore w in, t h at aotoir'si. was a d n . elei themselves with a s muc h forbear 'hi to expect from men in their Or ' lethal/ so he must add that h e did not • e House Oug ht to co t, ratio the tuoli4o.— ( liter, 1..,, ) . Tits Mr. DOMAN said he was ewe the Horse mot haw beard with mach gratification the grave and 'able arga sent of the light Hoe. Gestlestal, particularly nitet contrasdeg it with the speech of the Hon. Alderman' (!;r W. Curtis,) in which be bad thought proper to sub stitute insessowahte levity and ridicule for remolds, and fact. It was new, be believed, re the lwandes .o " House for a itepreseatadve to stand eenspienetts In throwing dirt apes his coestitnents, who east him there to take care of their interests, and when an opportunity did occur, to see ilia their character, at least, should sot lose.—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Secretary declaredthat he was content with the evidence before the house—that it was sailleient for his purpose, and therefore It would sot be necessary for hint to refer to the depositions cat anted with this matter new in the After the Secretary of State. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had concluded his argurneet by stating that the soldiers had rushed oat to save two of their comrades, as it was natural they should, and urged the circumstance as one of the reasons for voting against the motion before the bowie. Now there was net a syllable of this circumstance to be found in the minutes of evidence, and if not on the mimics of evidence, the fact must have bessi takes from some other I document not before the house. He conceived then that the Right Hon. Gentleman had not kept his word, when be announced that he would confine bee judgment of the ease to the evidence before the house. Let the house then leek to the examination of the evidence by the Right Hon. leetleman. He (Mr. Peel) attempted to sbew a variance betweea the allegation of the Sheriff and his officer, with respect to the message, and the improper answer delivered en the part of the Horse-guards. Aid the Right Hon. Gentleman appealed to the authority of the Gallant OMcer above him for a complete negative of. the charge. Bet the house would see, from theshowing of that Oallant °Seer, that be was not present when that I answer was iven. Colonel L YGON-It was all my own observation. Mr. DENMAN continued. The House would see from the nature of the case that the dallantollicer could not have been present at all be described; sad it was re• markable that his (Colonel Lygoo's) oatmeal did sot once mention the name of Mr. Sheriff Weidman, er say any thine of the message from the - Sheriff. But the ght Hon. Gentleman relied en the evidence fur a refit- Titan of the charges, and be (Mr. D.) must say that he never vet heard etidence examined more unfiirly than was the evidence oil the table by the Right lion. Gen tleman. The house should consider that this was not evidence such as was admissible upon a trial at law, but such as might be presented to a Magistrate, and intend ed for no other purpose by the Common Council than as a document which furnithed grounds of inquiry, and facilitated the mode of conducting it. Thus, for in stance, that very passage which was so facetiously e luded to in the course of the debate, was no more than an investigation, not as to the truth or falsehood of par. fielder facts, but as to the mesas of getting at the Malt, and the names of competent witnesses to be examined in after time. It was ment as that so much dwelt upon was evidence. He hoped the house, by its vote, would refute the strange doctrine of the on. Alderman (Sir W. Canis) that a Sheriff of the City of London could not act in his capa city of Sheriff for the County of Middlesex without the presence of his colleague in office. So that no matter what violations of the peace were going on—no matter how dangerous were the riots in Middlesex, a Sheriff of the City of London, who was able and ready to cheek the disur ters, must stand still (for he was but half a She riff by liiinself,ssid the Hon. Bart.) because his colleague happened to be present at Brighton, or a city feast. (A laugh.) But the house would see that the Sheriff did not mate his statement to Lord Bathurst for die Pqr-.1 pose of having it implicitly credited, and acted on. He merely Direst it see a greend ef inquiry, and OS Oft& it deserved the serious attention of the House. The hnn. and learned gentleman !lien entered into an exailination of the evidence respecting the (aloof Anne Dalton, sat% endeavoured to chew, by reading several passages fume! the Minutes, that she might have been the person in jured by the brickbat which was Hung over the barrack wall in the morning. Bat whatever difference there might be about the identity of this person, the ease, united with the others, formed a strong ground for th. institution of an inquiry. He defended the character of Mr. Sheriff Waitliu.an generally, and pieced before the House in a forcible manner how every witness concurred in attesting the real and perseverancA with which t, Sheriff endeavoured to maintain the public peace. It was asked, why was there no appeal to the ordinary tri bunals of the country? He would say that there was a snlEcient answer to that question in the cireninstances which occurred at the inquest on the bodies of Honey and Francis—more particularly alluding to the llitfil' Ii y there was in identifying the individuals who had com mitted the outrage. Let the House, then, remember the conduct of Government upon that occasion. There was Mr. Sheriff Waitlnan, Sir Robert Wilson, and Sir B. Baker, interfering in the most humane manner, and, as' was admitted by all, stopping by their personal inter ference, the shedding of human blood. They were the list of the proscribed. Then let them look at tile ease of the Manchester Magistrates. These the Ministers applauded and thanked. Those who would prevent slaughter were rebuked and degraded—those who fell upon the people, were favoured and rewarded. Strange policy ! to stigmatize and degrade the lawful exercise of authority when in favour of the people, and cLerish and honour the innovations of the military when exercised to their ilisidvantage and destruction. r 0 I. t it 0 Mr. PEEL and Mr. DENMAN mutually explained. Mr. BANKS, jun. declared it as his derided opinion that the conduct of Sheriff Waithman was most impro per, bat particularly in attending the Coroner's Inquest, where he had no right to be present, and interfering in its proceedings. Ile had no business there, where he could only he half a Sheriff. It was the Sheriff who returned Juries, who caused persons to be arrested for debts, and put the sentence of the law in execution, therefore lie could not in any case act as a Judge; and it was improper for him to appear as a Judge in any criminal Court e . fortiori. He could not appear as a public accuser, in which character he attended for six days at the Inquest, for the purpose of proving that the man who slew Honey was a murderer. He had no right whatever, and it was highly improper for him to be there. It was only twelve days before that the Queen's funeral took place ; on that day the roads were obstructed, and the Sheriff, who attended the funeral in I his public rapacity, used no means to remove the ob structions; but, on the contrary, without interferinz or attempting to quiet the disturbances, he allowed *he funeral to be turned into the heart of die C; % ,-, in direct opposition to those who had the lawful conducting of it. He must have known that the funeral ought not to have taken that course, and it was his duty to have pre vented it. As to what was done on the Coroner's In quest, lie hoped it would be the last time that witnesses would be allowed to appear on both sides, and that it would be the last time that the proceedings wonld he published from day to day.--(llear, hear.)—The Judges in other Courts had prohibited the publication of their proceedings day by day, and the same ought to be done on a Coroner's humor, where, by such publication of its proceedings, most injurious prejudices must have existed in the minds of the pnblic, and of witnesses.— He conhi not contemplate such conduct as this, er the conduct of the Sheriff on the occasion to avhiels he without horror and•disgu-t.---(Hear, heat.) 7: - - - - • Nit- sal astr mid be .91 pedaled, liatas ,sari q dagement es that &Nimrod by dm Honourable Gandemeelidie spike leolois that a Meld Of bla had been gal/of modal *blob ought to be viewed with horror sad Await. He (Mr. Beonetlnsaistaiaell that by his se attendlog. lb* public peace was preserved se meth that MI greatest odscisisf might havearism had he net attends& It wee the daty of the Goverment ort that day le ban kept the troops from interfering; but they seemed to be regardless of public 'Maims. and de avmhsed to carry every thing by force. When he looked at the wbele of t h e evideace afterwards given by other persons who bad been present. Hs bad particularly noticed the evidence given by Mr. John Tyas. a Re porter foe the Morning papers. No man was more Mbe depended on for the accuracy of his statements than a Newspaper Reporter. because no was paid more Mum aloe to all occurrences, attention and accurate observa tion befog his trade; and no man could give better sok deuce as to every thing that might pan before him.— This Mr. Tyas was the same gentleman who gave the first account of the Manchester business; and it was the most cern:et ace:oust that had ever been given by any body. The evidence of such a man, was therefore the most correct record that could be had is any Court of Justice. The following was the evidence of Mr. Tyke: —" 1 saw a soldier at the gate strike his eartridge-hos, take out a cartridge, bite it, prime his piece, pit some thing into the piece, and I saw his arm raised, from which I conceived he was ramming it down; but some.' body intervened, and I cannot say whether he rammed it down or not, In my )udgment I saw him load his piece; I saw him take his cartridge ; I saw hint bite it; raw him rap it in the touch-hole; I saw him put down the lock ; I saw him put something into the top of his barrel; and somebody came between us, and I saw his arm up. 1 have the least doubt that he primed and loaded. At the very time that these men were rushing at Mr. Waldman in the middle of the street, I saw this man with a carbine on his shoulder, and :poring it, as if to gee an aim at Mr. Waithmsn; anti my opinion was: that if be mold have fired at Mr. Wsithman without hit ting one of his comrades, he would have fired." It was true. the statement of Mr. Tyas was not given on oath; but that house was not sitting injodgmeet, and never re quired wit n esses to be sworn. Hews:teed:A. therefore. that the evidence ought to be received as true, just as 1 1 much as if it had been sworn to ; and that the whole of Mr. Sheriff Waittiman's statement was completely borne out by it: therefore the "Present was a fit subject for the house to inquire into. If such inquiry was not entered into, he must say that the present was not the house of Commons which the people ought to look tip to as the guardian of their liberties. He would say it was not be coming in that house to shut its door against inquiry Abundant evidence was contained in the papers before them. barked by the statement of the Sheriff himself. to make it incumbent on the house to take up the subject ; and not to applaud every thing said in favour of the sol diers, and turn their backs on the complaints of the peo ple. , Therefore IN most cordially supported the prayer of the petition. Mr. LAMB was exceedingly unwilling to embark in a Parliamentary inquiry on this spbject. Litt he wished to know, what possible motive could the men have who sealed that funeral—(hear, bear,) except to increase the excitement that had already existed, and take advanteke of the stateof agitation in the public mind at that time. —(Hear, hear.)—As to what the Hon. Member for Westminster bad said, he (Mr. L) must tell him, that the persons who attended the fusural could not be consi dered as oonstitating the pe.role.—(Hear, bear.)—Many persona there behaved themselves quietly; but there were nonlibers - Pfho were desirous of riot and disturbance, and it was absurd to give such persons the name of the people. If all tLe acts of that day were to be called the acts of the people, nothing could have a greater tteuden.•y to break the peace of the country. He would say, if acts of riot were not discountenanced in that (louse, the greatest mischiefs would follow. Mr. 110111110 USE explained. He said that when he spoke of the people, be alluded to the people as being in salted in the perron of the Sheriff of Middlesex. Mr. BUTTERWORTH said an unprovoked attack had been made on the troops, by a riotous moh, at the lune ral of the Queen, and what the troops had done wu in lefence of their own lives ; and it was highly improper in the Sheriff not to have interposed on that day at Cumberland gate ; for be went there not in a private, but a public capacity. Here the Hon. Member read a letter from Mr. Sheriff Waithman to Mr. Sheriff Wil liams, stating that lie intended to be at the funeral of the Queen, as Sheriff of Middlesex.—(hear, hear.)--A censure had been thrown upon Ministers, for not letting the funeral pass through the City; lie would say that, after that disgraceful scene—that profanation of all reli gion, which bad taken place on the (lay when the Queen went in procession, io solemn mockery, to St. Paul's— and that too under the sanction of the public authorities in London, and so recently after the evpo.(ures which bad taken place in the other house of Parliament— (hear, from the Ministerial benches)—after such a shameful scene as that, it would have been a degrada tion to the Government, if they allowed the corpse of the Queen to be conveyed in funeral procession through the city.—(Hear, hear.) - Mr. HUME said it bad not been his intention to have said any thing on the present question that night, bat it was impossible for him to refrain from taking notice of what hid just fallen from the Hon. Member for Dover. In that Christian charity, for which be pretended to be so great an advocate, he thought fit to make a violent accusation against all who had paid any respect to the late Queen, and also against the whole body of Magis trates of London. Such language as that was an insult IC religion.—(Loud shouts of hear, from the Opposition side.)—This was the way In which the sacred cause of religion was abnsed by men who, with piety and religion always in their mouths had nothing like Christian charity in their hearts.—(More shouts of "hear.")—The House bad just had an instance of the truth of what he ' now stated, and of such language and conduct he must ex press his utter abhorrence. With regard to the transae thou which took place at Knightsbridge, it had nothing to do with the Queen's funeral, and ought not on this occasion to have been mixed up with it; but the time would shortly come when Gentlemen would hear more upon that subject. The Honourable Member (Mr. But terworth) bad read a letter purporting to have been written by Mr. Waitlituan to Sheriff Williams, in order to show that the former gentleman attended the funeral in his public character of .gheriff. Now whether that was an authentic letter or not, he (Mr. Horne) would as sert, that to his knowledge, Mr. Wai.titnan did attend as a private individual, and accompanied the procession along with others, in his private carriage. This he stated ar a fret, without caring one farthing for the pa per which the lion. Member had prodneed.—(Langhter.) —Now, if a great Corporation like London asked that house for inquiry on a subject of vital importance to the people's liberties, the Members of the house would he decrying justice and inselting the highest civil officer in the conoty if they refused the inquiry. But instead of approving of his conduct, the Ministers did every thing they could to injure his character. The sentiments ut •evsid by an Hoe. Member against the Sheriff were out rageously unjust, and could not hay* originated from say slier 00111160.40 - aor, icier 1641,11116 P soid dal illirept Noting sboald oat be ingiatail to•Oy hisnalsar.)—Mr. Hans aeleiassed I. the jadiassat otalse Clair. and, alter a fast wards, sat down. Mr. C. SMITH eabloi few woeda, which* were set aa- Chi* in the gallery. Mr. Aidernsaa WOOD replied, sad expressed hie ear. prise that Ministers. and particularly as flea. Bart. (Sr Was. Cards.) shoald try to degrade the Corporation of Londe., which bad been honoured a few .an ago by the presence of his Majesty and all his Ministers. at a grand dinner ' which cost 25.0001. He saintaimed the right of the Sheriff to be present at the Inquest. and showed the safaireess of the animadversions of the Hos. Member for Dover. The House the* divided— For the motion 56—Agalost it 184—Majority against it, 128. IRV! TAX. Mr. CALCRAFT rose to bring forward his motion for repealing the Salt Tax,—a measure which Ile thought would be attended with the most beneficial results to a great portion of the community at large. In the year 1817, when he 6 et moved for a Commit. tee to enquire into the expediency of this measure, his motion was lost by a majority of nine. In 1818, a Committee was granted, and appointed by Ministers themselves, who came to a Resolution which be would read to the House. Tbat in the opinion of this Committee the repeal of the L.lt duties would be an important advantage to all descriptions of persons, and that the present state of the finances of the United Kingdom, alone, prevents them from giving instruc• Lions to their Chairman to bring in a Bill for the total repeal of the said duties."—The reason why he bad not since that period brought the subject before the House, was, that he did not consider the finances in a state to bear the repeal until the present year. The motion which he meant to submit was, for Irate to bring in a Bill for the gradual reduction of the Salt Duties. As the House had thought fit to adopt a Sinking Fund, of five millions, he retrained from the course recommended in the resolutions of the Commit tee, of sweepinf the tax away altogether. He meant to propose the gradual redaction of the duties, which amounted to fifteen shillings by five shillings per year, until the whole were extinguished. The Hotionrable Gentleman then enumerated the periods of the pro gressive imposition of the tax, until, in the 48th of the late King, it arrived at the sum of fifteen shi:- hinge per bushel, thus becoming an anneal poll-tax of twenty-five shillings. It was a tax which nothing but the direct necessity cbuld warrant ; for it p d upon the labourer, Ow mechanic, and the artisan, in the proportion of ten to one, in comparison with the reefs man. Another objection to this tax, in his opinioe. wan, that it held out a strong temptation to crime in the district in which it was most prodnard. This was the opinion of Mr. Justice Burton, who. for Many yeas was Chief Justice of Chester, and wan also that of Sir Thomas Stanley, the Chairmen of the Chester Session*. The tax had, in fact. always been considered a great source of crime in Chester; and the material itself, in stead of being a blessing, had actually become a curse. When it was recollected that on the material, value 1001. the duty amounted to 30001. and when to this thirty-fold tax was added, the melons accumulations it received before it reached the consumer, it was - oat nn fair to say that the price was 36 times that of dm ,taw material. He was aware that this tax was ultimately thrown upon the employer, because it increased the price of wages. New this, he contended. was a circumstance whiceresdered the repeal particularly desirable; for the present object ought to be to keep down the plea of labour. lie of course did not wish the marnsfacturet to eat dear bread; but he wished for a general refine don of taxation, which would fairly reduce the price of labour. Any one who read the Report of the Com mittee in question, must see the effect of this tax upon the Fisheries, as well as upon Agriculture. He was con tent to make the repeal a gradual one, but it was hiS opinicn, that so long as this article was under the con trol of the Excise in any shape, neither the Fisheries nor Agriculture would receive any advantage from a partial repeal. With this opinion, he should have moved for the total repeal in the'first instance; but he feared that a sud den repeal might he attended with incoevenience to many large establishments.—(Hear, hear, bear.)—Un fortunately, the tax invited a monopoly of Abe article to so great an extent, that he understood there were some large houses that paid as ranch is WOOL a-year for ditty. With a trade so shackle'', he was not disposed to meddle abruptly. He hoped, there fore, the house would see that be bad net ptocerfleti vier lently. As the inconvenience and hardship attending the tax had been amply shewn, he was not inclined to take up the time of the boast- by any detail ; contend ing, as he did, that those who opposed the repeal were hotted to skew that the consumer was not affected in the proportion be had mentioned. He would offer a few words respecting the mode which be proposed sheuld he adopted respecting the repeal. Should bin proposition be agreed to, the Revenue would this wear be nominally reduced to 51.10,0001. There was a Sinking Fend of 5,0011,000/. to be p d ; and the surplus for the pre sent year he was told would be 5,200,000/. The reflec tion would therefore lower the Sinking Fund to 4,700,0001. ; hut was there any fin ',icier in the coon• try who would say that the difference could be so great as to cause any inconvenience to the public er..- ; the future surplus would make good the defi ciency; but the Noble Marquess hail himself nail that taxes would be annually taken off, and the pre. sent motion was only anticipating uhe intention of Ministers in a snsall degree,and by a very few months. He was convinced that the reproduction attending the. repeal would considerably exceed the nominal loss to the revenue. -He had brought forward the present question somewhat ; because if it remained its suspense after the notice he had given, it might be attended with inconvenience to the trade. He bad a' letter in his p ion from some eminent salters at Birmingham, from which it was evident that tee tax had a material tendency to drive a considerable branch of trade out of the country. He alluded to the salting of beef and pork; and he assured the house, that had he postponed his motion for a short time, he could have been enabled to present peti.ion after pe tition for the repeal. When he had first peopled the measure. the Chancellor of the Exchequer opposed it on the ground that the repeal woeld be attended with little advantage to the country; and to sup i aset this statement, be observed that time repeal of the tax in 1 1729, was found• to have been attended with 'so Attie good, that in 1732 it was revived. Hr (Mr. C.) sad, since then, referred to the hest acconat of the times of Sir Robert Walpole, and had found that the .repeat in lquestion had tab place, becanee, Walpole, who was then carrying un his Excise Scheme. knee that it Would be easier to revive an old tal than to propose a new one. He could not but remark, that in a pasephier published by Mr. Burke in 1769. on the comparative situation of the lower classes is Enbland and•Fraace, is I ' I , I / 1 • t • , I V