The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-05-02 00:00:00

kt- f ~. - ' ,-.- Stated it was his intention to move an Amendment to the Bill in that stage, wept it should be consider ed more conformable to the practice of the House, to take another more advanced stage for that purpose. Mr. TIERNEY objected to the proposed mode of proceeding, as did also Mr. wyNN..: as unusual and inconvenient; and The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Consented to withdraw his 'Mice of an Ammidafeut to the Bill in this stage. Mr. TIERNEY-rose for the purpose of address. log them, be •feared, at considerable length, pur suant to a notice which be some time since had given, relative to topics of the most grave and important nature. The House was now called to consider and investigate what was the real currency of this coun try at this moment, sod whether that currency was that which it ought to be, or consistent with the wel fare of the country. lia,skould refrain from making any comments generally as to the state of the coon try, whether prosperous or otherwise, only so far as was connected with the subject oilier money transac tions. To bear the statements of the Right Honour able Gentleman from time to time, might lead most to imagine that things were in a very strange, if not embarrassed state. It was on all bands admitted, that, taking the debt of this country as aka round number, it amounted at the beginning of the year to 800,000,0001., to which was to be added forty mil lions on account of the present year, making a total of 840,000,0001. as the standing debt of this country, and this in the third year after the conclusion of peace. This view of the case might, perhaps, savour, even in the Right Hon. Genes mind, of something like adversity ; but then carne speedily the consoling reflection that we bad a Sinking Fund of fourteen millions. So far we had again a glimpse of prosperi ty ; ho .c ever, the prospect must be allowed to darken when the Public were informedthat every farthing of • this Sinking Fund was to he borrowed , forthwith.-- (4 laugh.)—But then again a fresh . gleam of pros perity broke in• on the Right Hon. Gentleman's reveries, and he began to console the House with the favourable nature of the terms on which the country might be accommodated with the money wanted for the public service.(Hear, hear !)—But if all these prospects, good and bad, were. to he bottomed upon a paper circulation, not convertible into cash; what' would be the sensation produced upon every one's mind in that !louse ? All would start at such a pro position, and cry with one voice " God fotbid !" Bat he would ask, what else could he intended when the lieu se was called upon in the third year after the conclusion of a peace, most glorious and satisfactory in its results, to renew a sj stem for which, no possi ble apology or defence could be offered, except the extreone danger in which the country had then been placed by most unforeseen and calamitous circum stances ? Should then the House hesitate as to the tote it ought to pronounce, when the question be fore it was, whether the Restriction ofcash payments on the part of the Rank should be renewed in the year 1818, on the terms and ill the manner prescribed by the Right Honourable Gentleman ? No doubt the House would leek to' that official character for a statement at least of some grounds whereon he might hope to induce the House to make so great a sacrifice to his views and wishes. Had any veal been hinted at?. Nay, had not that Right Gessiloms is .t o years age stated it was then irttentled by the Bank to resume cash payments, and that nothing had then come to Isis knowledge to induce him to think the Batik would be notable or indisposed to redeem its pledge ? But now, forsooth, after this lapse of time, the House was .called, on to enlarge the duration-of this Restriction, especially on the grounds, as stated in the preamble of the Bill., that it was in contemplation that several large foreign loans would be immediately contracted, and that a vast number of curious Englishmen were now Ira yelling on the Continent; in both of which cases it would naturally follow, as a consequence, that should cash payments be tesumed, a great drain of specie from this conntry would be the result, and that it bad beets still advisable to continue the Restriction as to cash payments., As to the danger of foreign loans, the policy of this country had been such of late, that he very much feared one )ear would be just as fruitful in that species of fruitless speculation as another ; but certainly the -resident and curious Gentry c omplained of, might be altogether thrown out of the calculation, as they had, by the confession of that Right Honourable Gentleman, almost all, most maliciously and unkindly for his position, re turned home.—[A laugh.]—The Right Honourable Gentleman should recollect that his great predeces sor, Mr. Pitt, had not disdained to submit to the House. when the Bill was originally proposed, the grounds upon which the original Order in Council had been issued, and referred the subject to a Com mittee, to report how far it would be expedient to continue its operation. Our Chancellor of the Ex chequer told the blouse boldly, that he believed it to be expedient, and, of course, the House ought to be lieve so too. It was material to consider the differ ence also of our situation now from that at the intro-' duction of the Bank Restriction by Mr. Pitt. The causes of the euactmeikt of the Bank Restriction were enumerated in the preamble of the Bill, and stated, that numerous unfounded and exaggerated statements end reports having been circulated, respecting the prospect of approaching, famine, invasion, and inter nal commotion, such a measure had become expedient ; whereas now there was neither foreign subsidies to pay —no west armies to be supported abroad or at home —no Wet, disturba nce, or panic, occasioned by dread of foreign invasions or of famine—but, instead of all these appalling circumstances, if - the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that is, his view of the question, were istibstituted, the house would have all the arguments now suggested for the continuance of the Restriction. He, for one, should object to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as an interested witness; his whole ar rangement, if it could be called such, was bottooo - on his own statement, and he was pledged to sapport what he called a loan, or subscription, or 20 other as appropriate names, because it was not pussisle to find one word which could describe it.—• It was of oto consequence that this proceeding was denominated a breech of faith with the public cre ditor. In 18IG, the year after the peace, a RAI was introduced to extend this Rill , for two years longer, expressly for the purpose of giving time to the Bank Directors to renew cash payments without incurring any public inconvenience. Now it was rernatia.ale Mr , trf 11F • , • that ow tbisAseetsioyr ther,ver„,. s4l ; smtwt words, eistl tte leg this' foreign leans ‘ltitek were left out.—(4l s hive . beau c.onvoited. - as rm.._ transaction ; they bad longoliuce admitted they were ready to pay in cash. 'This was the effect of the - Right .honourable: Gentleman's clashing with she Bank Directors. .If they had been asked, had they ~ bern.consulted on.the subject little foreign loans? be should say, they had tiqt, 1,14( as far escould be discover ed from the faces of theselsEiturn gentry, they were ready to admit they wfrop, cpmpeteut.to resume cash payments on the sth ,of .ply. He was glad to bee an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Baring) in the House, who no doubt could give some important information on this subject, as tio doubt he had been consulted on the subject of the foreign leans, or else he never would have agreed to them. ,Bur he could not help think. log the Bank Directors were all the time laughing at the Right Hon. Gentleman ; and it would be the more extraordinary, if, under . such circumstances, the Hoose should vote for that Bight lion. Gentle man's proposition. Ile was disposed to suspect, the only obstacle to the paymentie .010 woullt he at la.t found in the Act of the Legislature knirly. %Vial respect to the foreign lout!, it had been argued by the Right Honourable Gentleman that certain moor chants hivilig resolved to lend large sums of money to the French Government, and gold had risen in price in consequence, it became isecessary to wend the provisions for securing the precious metals in the .country. Though he should endeavour to abstain from abstrote points, he must advert to one propo sition as of great importance ; he meant to ask, if it were disputed, that en issue of paper currency did nut affect the price of gold?—(Hear, keart)— How far then might the increased issues of the Bank affect the excess of gold beyond the Mint price, ought to be a'questioti of mature consideration. — Notwithstanding all that had been said, the Back was well known to he in possession of a greater pro. portion of. gold and silver than ever it •had been be fore. The difference between gold and silver was now nominally as fifteen to one, but in currency, es fourteen to one ; until, however, silver was st ss. 6d. per ounce, there could be no seniorege thereon, and it would become a subject of exportation. The ex cess of gold above the Mint price was 4s. but It might be ascertained,. from indisputable sources, that a large proportion' of this excess did not arise from foreign loans. It would be no subject of alarm to this country if the merchants should feel disposed to purchase to a large amount its the French foods. —The operation of a loan, or of a disposition to purchase in the French funds, would be nearly, if not altogether, the same. The object of the Chancellor of the Exchequer had, as he had told the House, been effected by his late arrangements in raising the stock, and diminishing the rate of in terest, and this, of itself, might be a sufficient in. ducement to the English stock-holder to avail him self of the rise of his stock to purchase advantage... ously in the French funds. But when was this syse tem of puttii.g off the payment in cash to end ? Perhaps next year there would ne other foreign loans— what security would there be then for our resumption of cash payments ? He could not help adverting to the difference of our mode of raising money, and Unit of the Government of France. In this coon. try, we first borrowed the money, and the Perlis. meat provided for the interest. In France, the Mi nister obtained from the Legislature a certain nem. her of rentes, or had placed at his disposal, as it were, a perpetual annuity of 50,0001. a year, and he was peomitted to avail himself of the most favourable opportunity to get the money when he arid the aspect of the money market. If this arrangement were fairly and conscientiously fol lowed, he should prefer it to our own. It was a remarkable result, that, as far as the stocks could be taken as evidence on the -want of a paper circu lation, every thing in France was in a prosperous slate, whilst they were considered in a state of ex treme distress ; whereas in England, ',liege all hail their minds full of nothing but our prosperity, there was a general inundaiion of paper and the stocks I.lling. The amount of the loan for the ser. vice of France was thirty millions altogether. Of all this what might be supposed to he the probable amount of what might be sent out of this country ? Large sums, no doubt, would be sent out of many countries in Europe, to induce a confidence in the French Funds. From what had escaped from the Duke de Richelieu, the French Finance Minister, it was not improbable a claimant on the French Fonds might obtain payment in French Stock. Thus Prussian or English claimant might obtain a reim bursement in Stock, everagirog the 5 i.er Cents., as was their custom, at 78. By this mode it was pos. sible to invest in the French Funds, and yet this country be a gainer every way. Might not also the greater part of these loans be remitted in goods, bear. log a profit to Government and the mercantile in terest at the same time? But should the loans even go all in gold abroad, would it not return in the br. Binary channels of trade in a short time, except, in deed, as the Right lion. Gentleman seemed to think, there was something in our soil, shores, or climate, hostile to that metal, which made it always willing to elude our grasp? But the time was come when the veil would be taken away, and the true impedi ment be shown to our resuming cash payments. In deed, most persons saw through the thin device al ready. He would ask, once fur all, was it hotter that England should lose her character for good faith, or that the Bank should give up some part of its enormous profits —( Hear, hear.!)—That Company had now 10 millions of money in their coffers. The profit upon its being hoarded op, did not exceed a asilliou perhaps, and the Bank had received not less than 21 millions from the runts on its transactions with the Public. ThesP, certainly, were abstruse points, and not to *re understood except by calm dis. passionate enquiry, and lie had, therefore, always thought them unlit sufijects for a popular assembly, constituted like that !louse. lle hoped sufficient had already been submitted to the !louse to induce it to go into an enquiry of a more grave and appropriate nature. If tile result should prove to he the resump tion of cash payment, much good would be done ; if the contrary, he was persuaded the House and Pub. lic would derive such a knowledge of the transac tions of the Bunk with the Puliat —such an blight The Bank Di; - of the national. ',het the flek only ho ped )n Chi' eubjc Twbethef_tbe ler abetter ; period. If . the Bout this Proposition, he would . tell tin that was, that the Bank never woul all—( Haut, hear !)—and the same troduced.every successive year, as in which opinion he was the more what the Right Ilonourable Gent once• to his much lamented friend 1814, who, when he wished the pt.( to two years to be reduced to one, Right 'Honourable Gentleman, ewer:—` r If the Bill states tha n cash payments is to take place in two years, him, likeearnest ; but if it states the resumption to one , year, no one will believe us." Now let the Hoitrae, beware, for they were called upon to sanction that which it had been said from high authority nobody would ever belies -namely, that the resumption would take place in one.----( Bear! and laughter !) lie would ask, what more favourable opportunity could occur for this desirable renovation than the I present ? Might there not be still larger, foreign loans neat )ear, or the following years to he pro. aided for ? lie felt also the great impropriety of that" vacillation in all the late financial arrangements, so that nothing was ever known till the last hour.— : Hence we were on the lst of May called on to vote for a continuation of the Restriction which was to es. Ore on the sth of July. He deprecated the horror and alarm which appeared to seize some persons' minds on mentioning the resumption of cash pay ments as likely to occur. Some had said how should they ever be able to get their rents paid, or main tain themselves in their rank in life ? The change must Come sooner or later. If it did not come now, it would never come. It was the darling ob ject of the Right Houoorable Gentleman to prop op and sustain this system of gambling on the viml in. terests of the nation, and keep up the circulation of a paper currency, as on it depended the success of all his financial calculations and prognostication S— . criterion of the circulating medium was at an end; Bank paper was no louger convertible into cash, nor likely again to be so. The Bank Direc tors thought they had found out a medium of arrange ment between the true sterling currency, dependant on property, and the false or substituted one, and imagined they never could make a false step as tong as they cashed good bills of merchants, and gave the same nominal value for them in paper. When this was objected to by some. on the Opposition side of the House, unless it were checked, these Gentlemen cried out, " We never have experienced any ill ef fects or difficulty in our affairs arising out of it."— There was a good reason why, it was replied :" the check has been operating all along, for wheat you had issued too great a proport' of your own paper money, it occasioned a reaction, and was brought into the Bank and returned en your hands." Thus these wise heads could not imagine bow it was, but that so it was, like that Honourable Gentleman, who, when the difference between prose and verse had been obligingly explairoql to him, expressed great astonishment at his having been for so many years talking in prose, and never having known the fact before.—(Lnughing.)—The riper currency in cir culation in the half-year ending the s'h of January, 1817. (weeded that in the same quarter in 1816, 2,500.0001. whilst there was a cot responding issue of country bank paper. For obvious reasons, might not these increasing issues account, in a great de gree, for the flourishing stale of the financial or. rarigements of the Right Honourable Gentleman ? The Bank, however, recollecting that the best part of valour was discretion, would, no doubt, pocket the profits, whatever might be the result.—(Hear, hear !)—But he should show that the Right Honour. able Gentleman bad violated even his own criterion of the proper estimate of the currencies. He had laid it down, that the circulation should bear a jest proportion to the trade, expenditure, and revenue of a country. 'rhea, on the comparison of the years rowing on the sth of January, 1816 and 1817 —in 1816, the revenue amounted to 57,000,0001. the Budget to 25,000,0001., and the exports to 82,000.0001. ; whilst, in 1817, the revenue amount ed only to 47,000,0001. the Budget to '22,000,0001. and the exports to 72.000,0001. If, therefore, there were deducted from the excess of the exports and imports, the decrease of the revenue, it w 04,0 he fair to infer there would be required a less circu lation by 7,200,0001. in the latter year. The next step would be to compare this statement with the Batik-woes in circulation in the corresponding years—in 1816, they amounted to 26,500,0001. — in 1817, to 28,500,0001, making an increase of 2,000,0001., although affairs were represented in so promising a state. Thia should also he coupled with an increased issue of country bank-notes in 1817, amounting to 21,C00.0001., whilst that of 1816 was confessedly low. Thus throwing into rip. culation some additional millions of various descrip tions of Bank paper, whilst the necessity for it had to all appearances diminished. On the subject of country banks, the Bill relative to which had been postponed by the Right floisourable Gentleman, all he would say was this, that the measure was most unjustifiable—for he could not conceive any justi fication of that policy which went to prevent a man's exercising his credit in his own way. The Govern ment had a perfect right, for reasons of state, to say that no man should issue notes of 11. and 21.; but they had no right to say, that, when there was the power to issue, on the controul and responsibility of the individuals, they should interpose awl call for a double security. It was said that the Public sus tained dreadful losses from the failure of country banks—that 200 out of 700 of them had failed ; bur be tne loss thus arising what k may, it ought not to be calculated as a total loss, for in many instances large available sums remained for the indemnification of tie Public. As to the licences, it was notorious that any man who wanted one could get it, and in many instances the same establishment bed for the purpose of taking up and circulating their stoles in various local directions. But his main abjec tion was to the principle of Ibis Country Banks' Bill, for it went to recognize a 11. and 21. paper circuit. Lion ) without reference to the vial question ) whe - - - ref country paper—for they will naturally say, 4 4u hlr ig t hould we take this trouble and pains to put profit, 'sect' as it may he, in the hands of country bankers, *bile we hate the means of keeping it, by a similar system, in our pockets ?"—[Dear, hear!)—[lieri the Chancellor of the Exchequer shook his head ]-r The Right lion. Gentleman shakes his heed, but be had two ways of shaking it— one was when 14 thought be could silence an opponent by shakin g i t; and another when he despaired of being able to carry a favourite measure.—L Lauglder.l• It Masi, vain to declaim in that House about the &op t of loans and country banks. The only way of realty' getting at the question was by going into a COM. mittee ; there, and there alone, the whole subject could meet with due and effective consideration, by the application of intelligent and business-like minds, fairly selected. As matters stood, there was a great and well-founded alarm at the financial state of the country. lie would not go so far as to say, that all the dangers which were stated by some persons would immediately arise if the Bank Restriction Act wete to continue —but he would say, that the dangers were incalculable, if the Bank did not, by steady and gradual reduction of their paper issue, pave the way for a speedy resumption of cash pay. meets. A Committee could recommend and enforce this necessity, as well as point out the most efficacious means of carrying the arrangement into effect, and making the shock less than it otherwise must be if matters were permitted to go on in their regular course. Oo the project which had been mentioned, of reducing the 5 per cents. to the three and a half, all he would say was this, that it would be uufaie and disgraceful to the country, inasmuch as it would be creating, by artificial means, a financial chino which could not bear the light.—(The Chancellor of the Exchequer swited.)—The Right lion. Gentleman may smile, but no other person in the House does at this notable expedient.—(llear, hear !)—Nothing was more partial and unequal than the preliminary step to carry this point. Within six months the 31.er cents. were raised from 25 to 30 par cent. The gainer by this was, of course, the large capitalist ; for the great body of the holders could not touch this profit —many of them, for instance, held as trustees fora certain period, and could not, by selling cut ire the spur of the niutnent, avail themselves of this rise; and they may be going on under the idea of having, leek years hence, an increase of capital, though in the in terim, perhaps, the bubble may hurst.—(llear!)—in vain would the Right Hon. Gentleman say, that this systden diffused wealth through the country, that it enabled roads to be made, and opened a facility for tbelandholdei to b , rrow trolley whenever pleased. All tied; was very tine—but unless the Right lion. Gentleman meant to say that the day of payment was never to come, this was the situation in which the borrower must ultimately stand, namely, that he would have to pay at the rate of 151. for every 101. he was in this manner enabled to raise.—[/lear, hear!] —The whole system was contrary to the wholesome view which every English merchant took of the management of his own affairs—it was con trary to the sound principle on which every agricul turalist acted—it was contrary to' the fair dealing of every Englishman—it was a system which he most abjure, unless it were clearly laid down to him that he had no other alternative.—(Hear!)—For the Batik Restriction Act they had uniformly heard thi plea of necessil : let that necessity be clearly and oil fair grounds established in the Committee, and theft there would be an end to the case. The great evil of all was, that the character of the country was at stake—(fiear!)—Look to Europe. Did not every other country take a close and decisive view of its finances after the pressure and vicissitudes of the war ? and was England to be the only country in the world which was to take no step to review or rege' late her financial system?—[Hear!]—This subject struck him so forcibly, that he could not refrain from saying, if, after three pears of peace, the House agreed to the Right Honourable Gentleman's propo sition, they ought to be prepared to agree to any thing. He spoke with less restraint on this ques tion, because it could not be construed into one of private or of interested feeling—it touched the general honour and credit of the country, and not the interest of any particular individual in that House—it might indeed excite a smile on the face of the Right Ho nourable Gentleman, but he trusted it could Wile nothing but serious reflection in the mind of every other man in the country.—[Hear, hear, hear!] - ' if the House meant to encourage gambling of all kindr, and the most fluctuating and uncertain Ili* cissitedes in the public funds, then they ought to pass this bill ; if, on the contrary, they mra"t to perform their (Inty t' the Public, Ciey would, ill the first instance, call for a Committee. It was their duly ds*, in a crate of peace (for such was the rest -106. state a Giro), to prepare for a time of war ; and on this point Is.' would most explicitly declare, theg if war found this country with a debt undiminish• ed, and cash payments unresumed, there was so end 4111 that boor and on that day to the Britbk empire.--(Loud cries of Heart)—The misfertoof/ was that the inadetplate steps now taken went to plo• volte, if not to encourage this hour, and to show that the crow ry was 'timid to meet it.--(llear, hear 0.-- But the. Noble Lord opposite (Lord Castlereagh) Weir oo a former occasion, very profuse in his high float* ste!ements of the situation of this country as COI" pared with any other in Europe. England, lie ssitio was the land flowing isith milk and honey, whole every mon could sit down under his own a r n e France was humbied and uterpowered. But let the 'l'l-JE S'FA'EFSMAN. - f•r b s pr,ernbtehjh.thp intn,.qtra trade,anti finances rysimh styptf, ba4 : b4it toith the .utmost no tlyhe'pretetrs, dne If s n _fn.cattend th the.Aieriteit. tratollets, Ash paythikarts.• he or I—The Bank Directors satisfactory Information on .___ „ ~...... ." . . . . ~. (A '" A . . • .1) A/ i. 1 i ')fi r , . ) ....k . .. • . . : .. ! ..c non i f y, a' Wield , :tiner the Bank' , sto pay in specie or not.—(Hear, .onikisg ~,—,-11e bear, hear!)---Ikten as t i l the circul i 1 I th s e g iss n ue h it) h .s.e ltd s Go. ibtl ti'vecilie etulie Bast lion ruralise trn ti m , e ih n e t fi pa rs pe tp r, oi t n he : ; I 'lt t i :t n es s , rject, and ascertain the Chancellor of t &chequer has assuMed that in n /mid :fair tai l or 'the state of the coun ry will nut admit of the substi. use did not agree to tution of a metallic currency in the pito, of thes e hem his mind—and 'IMPS. Now how does it happen that in France the mild resume Aim at whole rirculition is kept nitin metallic currpncy ? k ; ne Bill would be in- might, herhaps, be necessary to adopt a different corm. s a matter of course; in this c ou n tr y ; but all he asked was that this dec sion should be strained after due investigation before, k a Commit tee.—[llear, hear!]— Then, as to the sa... s , r it e lo c m on e fi n rm ha ed dtt f a r t o e u d r .nd Mr. Horner, in cond point, the Government securities—the In u it, iroposed fiestriction country banker was to have a stamp, it was to be d . • P, received from the come to all intents and purposes Government paper this memorable an- whether it seas issued at Exeter, or at Downing.. it our resumption of j street. The result must inevitably be, that the G n i 1 two veers, it : ooks Lverittnent will take loin their own hands the issue: 9 r !. 4 .