The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-04-17 00:00:00

i • MISO ; if it gives way, allows for a moment,. that one of its privileges should •be broken into, his punishment is gone, he has gained a triumph.— [hear, hear!] Under these considerations, I can never give my vote for thy liberation of Mr. Gale 'Melt, until he complies with the rules of the House." Mr. CANNING did not feel it necessary toe:. amine the question, whether the House did or did tint possess the privilege, or whether they were or not right in the exercise of it. These questions had been'already decided by the House. The sim ple and naked question in the present instance was, whether the measure of punishment inflicted was or was not adequate to the guilt of the party? He had not heard any Hon. Member say, that be did not think it adequate; and therefore, being now forced to come to a decision, he must say, that it did ap. pear to him an adequate punishment for the offence. He felt, however, sorry that the question bad been brought before the consideration of the House this evening. He had much rather, consider ing the particular circumstances of the time (Mr. Canning probably alluded to the meeting at Westminster), that the motion had been post poned for 48 hours ; but as it was brought fur. ward now, he must determine on the vote he should give by the merits of the case itself, ityle. pendent of extraneous considerations. The Hon. Gentleman who brought forward - the motion (Sir • S. Romilly), had declared that he had ao manner o f c o mmunication with Mr. Gale Jones upon the sobji•ct of the motion. As Mr. Junes therefore had nothing to do with bringing forward the mo. Cult oa that particular day, he thought it would be very hard that he should suffer on ac count of the circumstances of the time in which the motion was made, Would the Hoeso deter mine to exhaust upon Mr. Gale Jones the whole measnre of punishment that they were capable of inflicting, or did they really think that his crime deserved the greatest punishment which the House could inflict? It was alleged, that, besides his ori. ginal offence, he had been guilty of contumacy, which deserved additional punishment. lie really could not discover this contumacy. When this person was brought to the Bar, he, in the first instance, confessed his fault, and supplicated the mercy of the House. After the supplication of mercy, it appeared to Maly that it was rather hard and severe for the House to send him to prison. But why should it be said that he refuses now to confess his fault ? Did the House 'ask him to do it ? Might not ho well snppose that the same arguments and supplications which failed before fail now ? Ile wished that this question sho uld be considered separately . on its own merits ; and he agreed perfectly with the Right lion. and Learned Gentleman (the Mas ter of the Rolls), that it would neither be just or suitable to the real dignity of the House to-keep this man in prison longer than appeared to them just, from the fear of appearing to be afraid. If Mr. Jones should now be discharged, after hay. ing remained so long in prison, no one could say that the House had abandoned any of its privi leges, or that his release set that question to rest. As to the dignity of the House, he thought now the great offender (who he would contend had justly and legally bees imprisoned), was suffering the punishment inflicted by the House, it could not lower the dignity of the House to release the wailer offender, after having inflicted on him a measure of punishment which appeared to be ge nerally considered adequate to his offence. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL contended a. gain 4 the releasing Mr. Jones, without his pre. seating a petition in the usual forms., He could not see any reason for excepting this ease from the . general rule. He did net see on what particular grounds it could be contended that Mr. Jones was rotitl -41 to more favour from the House that' other p..rsoits ho had b!en committed to prison by the 'lease. Ile could not agree with the Hen. Gen. °entail, that there was any necessity for .Mr. Jones er any other petitioner, mooting any parti cular opinion : it was only necessary that he should state generally his sorrow fur having vio. Weil the pi;.ileges of that House. 'Now he could not conceive what objection Mr. Jones could have, in point of conscience, to state that in writing, which ho had already stated at the bar of • the House. He believed that no man' cuuld deny that Mr. Junes had been guilty of a violation of the privileges of the Muse; and if it were impossible for him to doubt that he had been guilty of that offence, what reason!. able objection - could he have to comply with what %vas required fry thirforms of the House, and say -so ito k petition T Such a . confession would have! nothing to do with* 'the abstract question 44 she tight of the House to commit, or the other gees.. tions which had been recently agitated.„ There were two remarkable cases, which were Aliiecti: ly in point. In the last Session, the House_ had committed Captain Sandon and General Glaciating-. The former hail evidently -beat guilty of the grossest preraricatiou, which be confessed; and the latter had positively (leaved, and the declaration was believed by his friends and many Members of the House, that he never did intend to prevaricate. Of this, howeyer, every bsoly was agreed, that the guilt of Capteite., Sandie), in .concealing the nee, and the many falsehoods he told respecting it, was greater than the iiffencte of Gen. Clavering. Nevertheless, Capt. Saladoz was liberated after a month's sittinient, because he presented a petition ; and Gen. Clavering, because lie presented no petition, was suffered to remain in prison till the end of the Session, which was three months from the date of dais imprisonment. These recent instances would • show that the House was accustomed to show leni ty to those who asked it by petition in the usual forms. Mr. W. SMITH could not see that the dig. • nity of the House absolutely required some peti: tion, hut that any petition of any kind would be sufficient to satisfy that dignity. He thought that - 'nothing could he more contrary to the reel dig nity of the House than to confine a person longer than the justice of the ease required, merely on a point of form. lie thought the Honourable and Learned Gentleman (the Solictiir-General) who lad just sat dun had chosen strange cases to sup. .16 - _______ T ~.a~ THV. STATESMAN. port his argument. A 4 to the imprisonment of General Clavering for three months, he believed there were very few who recollected the evidence he gave, that considered an imprisonment of three months as a punishment too great for his offence ; and therefore it was not at all sur prising that no Member should have meowed for his being discharged without a petition. The fact was, that it was the opinion and the advice of the friends of General Clavering, that it was more advisable for him to remain in prison during the Session, than to receive that sort of reprimand which he would have been liable to, if ho had been discharged upon his petition. Cap tain Sandoo had presented a petition, and was discharged after a month's imprisonment, upon re. calving e reprimand. It could not, however, be said that he received more lenity than General Glowering, as the friends of the General thought it better that he should be some time longer in Orison than be subject to such a reprimand. — There was, however, a prodigious deal of dills. fence between the guilt of General Clavering and that of Mr. Gale Jones. He believed that every one must allow that the uffence of the latter by no means merited so severe a punishment as was due to that of General Cleveriug. He thought it would be an unworthy and disgraeefol reason for continuing Mr. Jones in custody, that to morrow is great Meeting was expected in West minster. [Mar, hearl Why should he be imprisoned in .consideration of the probability of some other persons doing some other thing entirely unconnected with his offence ? As to the question which would then prubahly be dia. Cussed, he must say, that be very mach wished that the House had agreed to the reprimand instead of committing Sir Francis Burdett. If they had done so, many disagreeable. consequences might have been. avoided. At present, the minds of the public were, and must necessari:y be in a state of suspence about the legality of the execution of the warrant, until the trial should have taken place. lie thought that this question ought to be decided on its real merits, and that the further punishment of Mr. Jones should not be made to depend upon a mere point of form. If the House really conceived that Mr, Jones had received suf. ficient punishment for his atom., he could not think that it world be at all for their dignity *to act contrary to justice. • Mr. mAttitykr did not consider that Mr. Gale Jones should be punished merely for obsti. nacy. If the punishment he had received was considered sufficient for his contempt of the privi leges of the House, it was his opinion that he ought to be discharged. Sir JAM ES II A Li, did not conceive that the House would either consult its dignity or its cha. racter by an unnecessary prolongation of the imprisonment of Mr. Jones. lie did not know but ,that, so far from a punishment, it might be of novice to him. It might serve him in his debating society, and in his trade as an orator, to have his case made interesting to tioefeelings of the public. He would probably be considered as a martyr to public principles, and would gain a degree of popularity that world abundantly repay him for his imprisonment. Mr. WILBEItFORCE observed, that no man yet had attempted to answer the very able argu ments of his Right Honourable and Learned Friend (the Master of the Rolls). The powerful arguments which he urged with so much weight remaining completely unanswered, he could out avoid agreeing to his conclusions, and voting fur the release of Mr. Gale Jones. The case of Cap tain Sandon only proved, that the House did, upon a petition, remit a part of the punishment which they would otherwise have considered due to the offence. Their remitting, however, part of the merited punishment on account of a petition, could not at all be prodtteed as an argument fur inflicting more than an adequate and merited degree of punishment on a person who did not petition. [Hear, hear t] He thought this case ought to be decided upon its own particular merits, without any consideration of circumstances which were ex. ! I traneoue to it. From all the views he could take of the subject, ho felt himself hound to vote for ' the releate of Mr. Cale Junes. Mr.WARDI4E said, that he should - vote for the release; and he trusted that, on a future ay, he should be able to prove to the House the truth of the opinion which he had entertaitted all along, that the House had no power to eenonit. Mr. CROKER could not see any IcaSQII why the present case should be determined in a manner differeut from what appeared to be the established usage of. the House oe similar occasions. lie manisinot see taunt this case stood on more favour able &presume - 09'1Mo sate cases, and therdars. heeliotild vote against the motion, merely on the of conforming to established piecedents, to the usage of the House. : Mr. BANKES also thought that .the ;louse ro ught net Ili depart from its forms and preeedents, eed more especially at such Oleos as the present. Mr. 111 LEY .ADDINGTOISAsmeght that the general usage of the House with respect to per ,soee who had been contesktal to prison Without having existessed confrition did nut apply to the present cure, where it -allowed that the person broeght to the' Bet had expressed hip sorrow fur tho aflame, ant[ asked the forgiveness of the House, It appeared to him that the address made by Mr. Jones, at the Bar, was in the nature of a petition, and that it ought to be considered as ap. pliink to every period of his imprisonment. Ittr. OW OT said a few words on the other side. Mi. WYNNL considered that in the case of GeneraliCiayering the punishment was not more than equal to the Offence. Mr, Jones had, how ever, now been in prison nearly as long; he had been eight weeks iu Newgate, and that was a time which every body seemed to consider an ade quate punishment for his offence. It must also 'be recollected that the House wes,no4 on Ole eve of au adjournmeot, which would otschsittriJy add considerably to the term of inipritonment, if he Were not discharged at present. ' • Mr: ADAM did not consider that themmemee. sure . of punishment was due to an offence of 'the nature of Mr. Gate Jones's, which he could only collider as a coustructisu obstsuctjeo to the pro- • m _ •...~. .-----.,---- ccedings of the House, aswould be necessary in the 1 cases which had been cited; which partook more of the nature of substantive and actual obstructions. He considered the privileges of that House as 0- Cential to its existence ; but the exercise of them • was nut to be confined to cases of mere centemilt Wha • from his Learned and Honourable Frie peered to hint to he completely unan., swera • This was a question of distributive justice, and there was more true courage, more sound discretion in exercising It at this moment, than at any other. in liberating Mr. Gale Jones, they did not abandon their privileges. They might, as had been well observed, ccanmit the next day for a similar offence. He could perceive no objection to acceding to the motion, except the apprehen sion of something that might possibly take place' to-morrow.. He was, therefore, of opinion that it would be advisable to postpone the bringing up of Mr. Jones until Wednesday. The prin ciple of the motion had his cordial concurrence. Sir S. ROMILLY, in reply, stated, that it was his intention to amend his motion to the effect - recommended by his Learned and Honourable Friend. There was another amendme nt suggested, to which he could not so readily subscribe, name ly, to engraft upon his Motion, that Mr. Jones should be liberated itt consequence of having al ready expressed concern for his offence. That expression of contrition was already on the votes, and was therefore unnecessary to be repeated...- Whatever the event of this question might be, he must congratulate himself for having brought it 1. before the House. lit the course of the debate, it had beau imputed to him that he watched hit time to bring forward his motion ; meaning, he pre sumed, that his principal inducement was the obtaining of popularity. Against such a charge he would not condescend to justify himself. Those who knew him, he trusted, would give him credit for being actuated on this occasion by more ho. nourable motives. He hod declared his intention, after the debate on Sir Francis Burdett's commit. ment, to take an early day of moving feb the dis charge of John Gale Jones; and it was in purse. ance of that notice that he submitted the motion now before the House. Ilad he not brought it forward either this day or to-morrow, Mr. Jones could not be discharged before the 2d of May, to which time he understood the recess was to ex. teed. He could not consent to add three weeks more imprisonment to the punishment that gen. tleman 'had already undergone. With respect to the question itself, he did not tied that the practice of commitment was established on such grounds as should deter him from maintaining, that it might. sometimes be improperly tier. cised, or pushed beyond necessary limits. Least of all, could he admit_ that a person was to suffer under that practice, until he made ac knowledgment of his error. If that were the in variable rule, he might lie in prison for ever. He trusted the House would act on more liberal grounds. He should have thought that a person who made acknowledgmeot of his offence in the first instance, who was afterwards committed, and remained for some •weeks in prison, bad a strong claim indeed for his release upon the justice and mercy of the House. Had Mr. Jones petitioned to have been discharged on the 13th of March, the House would have agreed to it. lie bad al ready expressed at their Bar his regret at hav ing done that which the House conceived to _be a breach of Its privileges , Wh y was he to be called upon to humble himself a second time ? It would seem as if the House was punish. ittg . him not for what was past,- but for the isitpre. hension of something that was to come. lii must contend, that neither the case of Huxley Sadon, nor that of General Clavering, were aiming's, to that of Mr. Jones. For himself he must say, that if he were in the case of the latter he would suffer any length of imprisonment sooner than make sub. mission. The punishment of Mr. Jones he con sidered to have already far exceeded the measure of his offetice; and as one of his judges, as one of those who sentenced him to that punishment, for he must be bound by the decision of the House, he felt it his duty to move for his discharge. The House then divided on the motion for bring ing up Mr. John Gal,: Jones to-morrow. Ayes - 112 I Noes - 160 I Majority - 48 STAMP OFFICE. Mr. WHITBREAD stated, that unless the arrangements proposed last Session to be nioe in the Stamp Office were carried into effect before the month of May, he would submit a motion to the House on the subject after the Recess. • - Mr. WHARTON replied, that every expeditims,was aced that th...• complicated nature of the department *ould allow. Mr. WHITBREAD observed, that if the same assiduity had been applied, which persons exerted in their private COD- , cents, it wa, morally certain these arrangements might have been completed bug ago. - COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY'. The Home having resolved itself late a Committee of Sup plv. `tile. WHARTON, after some oliervoltbsts, moved. that a spin net eiceedin,t 518.181 f. be granted far the expenee of Marracks. The excess above the-vote nflavt year, he observ ed, was oceasimwd by fitting up the building at Winchester, called the King's !louse, as barracks. The ReStolutiote were agreed to: Mr. WHARTON reined, that a sum not exceeding 1,250,034. should be granted for defraying the expeoces of the Commissariat Department. The Resolution was agreed to.—Adjourned. ..~ . ~~ THE STATESMAN. LONDON: TUESDAY,' APRIL 17 ) 18106 GiBRAGTAR PAPERS to thc 25th ult. have been received. Tite following extraordinary Prods , Illation has been issued by thc Govern or of that. place :-- pgoc I.A M ATION. • " Ileed-quarterA Gibraltar, March ?I, 1810. " Excellency the Commander in Chief is pleased to direct, that, commencing with the sth of next month, all persons of the fallowing descriptions shall he obliged to wear a badge on their breast or some cobspicovus pun of their dress, describing the nature of , their gaploymeot,aad which will he furnished to them gratis at these crrtaC l a OW* on receiving their liceores, viz. hawkers, pdhers, re/num, bum-lanatmen, truckaten, • and carters: All'intreigters em ployed in the King's works will he required to .wisaralrailar badges; And the different guards will have strict orders to apprehend any person of the above dasortiptiocryshoksay . ats tempt to pass any of the gates, or wham they may see ma ?toyed es ithintt their:proper badges. " Any perstin found wearing one of these hadats,who Is not duly I icessed, and any, person atteniptlas to pautOrfelt them, Will be treated - as a spy ! and pro -aaW *plat With the ut . must severity. •• • a . . I f ' •1 With the deepest &mecca, - we annewesse tee— vlith of Lord Coesiterawooa, the gallant hertrof 'Wafer. His Lordship expired on b e a r d hi s own ship the rale cle".Paris ; and his tomeies were conveyed in that vessel to Gibraltar. .—....—._ Tnr debate ire the House of Commons last oight deserves the attention of our readers. Of Si t SAIWIL ROMILLY I we are inclined to speak with much respect, although we sine erely lament t h at he lately expressed something like a concession, 4 a matter of opinion, to the mere authority of the House. Sir Sawyer. ROMILLY is nut called upo n , in the discharge of his dubs to the public, to insult the House by the manner of his protesting against soy of its decisions—.that is most true...but, neither is be called upon to yield his opiniou to the audio. rity of the house; for, In fact, such concession, is dangerous to the public, when made by a person 'of sound understanding and gouerai!y admitted integrity, such astir SAMUEL ROXILLY is. 1.10 night, if we could admit the ground taken by th e Learned Member to be well chosen, we should warmly praise his speech ; ler it had much excel. lent feeling in it. But he did out take suficiently high ground : he pleetted for an individual, sod should have argued for the Country, against the claim of the House to itnprison for a Wail. The House rejected the motion to libnite Mr. Joaxc, on the ground of its dignity, and lest it should ap. pear to betray fear. Mr. JON es, then, is to be called in to support the dignity of that House! And the fear of being thought intimidated, is to prevent the House from performing what, accord. ing to its own doctrines of its privileges, vosld be nothing more than a gracioes and generous condescension '. From those who thus atleise the House, it may well pray to be delivered. SECOND EDITIOX STATESMAN OFFICE,' rove. o'cLocc MEETING OF THE ELECTORS OF WESTMINSTER. • This day, a Met ling was held of the Electon of Westminster, pursuant to a Requisities, signed by nearly TWO THOUSAND most re. speetable Inhabitants and Electors, to take into consideration such measures as it might be deemed proper to adopt on the late pro. wettings of the nonce of Commons egotist Sir FRANCIS BURDETT. The Meeting um mach more numerous than or any former oeca. *aims. Before twelve n'eock, Palace-yard was crowded, and all the avenues leading to it were filled by the time the 'Meeting commenced. No thing, however, could be more orderly, or woes consistent With the character of peaceable sub jects, than the whole coieduct of the proceedings. At about one o'clock the HIGH BA 11.110 open. ed the Meeting by reading the Requisition, and by a most appropriate speech. Mr. STURM then, after a very abk speech, moved the following R:. solutions, which were *teed to unanimouslg : I. That we most highly apptove of Sir FRANCIS BeR- D4TT'S LETTER to as, his Constituents, the Sit*, Win of the Wawa ItePolleace, and the Argument igiolitriNeileT ble. - . 11. That Sir FRANCIS HURD ETT's conduct in calling the Sheriff to the protection of his house against a Force, was dictated by prudence, knowledge of, a nd.* dente io, the Laws of his Country. 111. That the Rouse of Commons be called q 6ea store to us our beloved Representative. and la. COPIPO immediately with laim.ia his eadeavvl ll in Praia" hi Repzesentation of the People to Parliament. The Petition, expressed in very firm, yet eetl proper language, was now read and adopted; d was also a Letter to Sir FRANCIS OURPgrli expressing the full and entire stpproketioel byes Meeting, of the whole and every part of blO Coo' duct as a Member of Parliament. • Lord COCHRANE, who WAS present, cemented to present the Petition to the House, and sade Speech, which was received with very great sk plause. Mr. WISBAILT, Col. WAIMEA, and load iss• NINGS also spoke, and were greeted wi plaudits. The Thanks of the Meeting were given to Lord COCHRANE, for his support of Sir Y. BO' DETT—and to the Hum &Limn for bas eead i ' ness in calling the Meeting, and his impartial to duct. The Meeting, was advised b y the sev ner eral Speakers, to conduct themselves in a Don ta give no handle to Ministers to misrepres ' heir motives ; and the moment the business It concluded, the Assembly dispersed i n a toy er derly manner. f o i A l,:t ß ideqdie l i : e ci z ti, f o: r is si r g i n rc a u tu la r t s i:! t ti o u r o a n i g i h a t e c t o. o: l ;;: .the Freeholders to consider the COO of FRANCO RUUDETT, &c. p T o h b e l c ic at n tat t y .t 1. li b o t u o g h co o n f against Me: Joui G A LS Jones, a nd Sir Dar; imooon sequen ce of a Requisi ti° " .juLtielverld•roPettiskle burgesses and inbabits! ostg" ts i amioluted Monday , W the Oti C inatsparpose. LON' sCwserruntihrtehelnatehasniescsauslltin IN . : Printed mid Poinlira STkrimaa3 O►fiCfr I). WILL' wv.. 6 7.rnv i. - r ." , • .1 t r