The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-07-11 00:00:00

r ~~. KI'VrESMAN. 1 w . n be the state of all the districts it present dis. ` ble toSite sho rt then. In considering this evil, it appeared to him , were to en prisoner , r should be deernad bst outset!. A machine at some one place, perhaps, had and then they began at another, and ~.tier to lo o k at the aspect which it now put on, ' tried for a misdemeanour. The MagiStradel• SOW than to consider minutely its origin and causes.— also have a power to arre st bled and to hold enisled by. self-interested individuals, the contagion At the same time it was satisfactory to consider, found thus tumultuous l y all such persons al ilk, ' . been'broken, . . . . . that much of the evil arose from causes merely tem 'in vtirious parts of the kingdom. Most or those, sions • and be would propose,, that they . them to bail, so as to b r i ng t h em to ;dal at the next soon eprend, and great atrocities had been committed' porary—the distressed state of the manufacturers , quarter Ses , wine& who had been the principal notierk, hed, however, eg;ravated by the price of prosisions : and it shouitotnewbeall atich cases be urougnt to tr ial . ;been brought to justice, for they had been convicted be observed , that there was necessarily a degree of they now were by Which:nieeiis they a „ .. Meiners's! not allowed the privilege of traversing the nd exeeuted. The Noble Lord had complimented combination among manufacturers, which melte le iltdichnent as , ~ „ pleasure 'Than fhe Magistracy all over the kingdom ;.. nothing would more easy for them, than for an equal nunitier v ntt' glit defer their trial for two Sessions. ResPecting e eepeeee n e of the - have sgiten Mi.. Whitbittid iiiiiifer agriculturists, to communicate and cougregate; yet, s stliee4tieticasaises'ioaeOso onlsorging,t to have subscribed to that opinion ; but he must whatever might be the cause of the mil, it bad annum. Magistrates; as tin), S u ffi c e. assert, without meaning to make any individual Nlegietracr were not a w and th e circu . mstances of the ted a shape so formidable, having risen from levying country now stood, , allusions, that in some particular districts, the Mn. part of a war on a few master workmen, to ream in search of ently numerous Co do the duty in e very . I ' t tes had t done their duty . In the Commit. by removing from the ; ins ra no nee eneades,—it was so ii - atign t abt nits tiatiare, so COUntiy ; and an if e nil er , county into another that I tee, 'continued the Honourable Gentleman, there was marked in its combinationseso bound by itaabioni. verge or confine or one that meannot the smallest evidence brought to shew that the ' i t aelo oath, that the House would feel it would be adjoined it, was enabled to escape from .s to elude I Watch and Ward Act had ever been carried into exe. the Ma g is lulling the country into a false security, tq tell it, tiate who pursued him, and by t that the existing laws could eradicate the mischief.. the law . He would, therefore, propose that there cation ; but there was sUlficient evidence to shew Though in the Committee m I all the circu statices and should be a concurrent jurisdiction between Magis- Tat the inhabitants could not be brought to execute pirtioulaes had not been detailed, yet enough ap. . trates of adjoining count ies; I • so that a Magistrate in , t o. ; that the ill-affected impressed the Oell-affected peared ; to show the enormous nature of the evil. An one county having pursued nu offender into another 1 with such a terror, that nobody would venture to ; lien. Member (Mr. Whitbread) had said, that the county, the limits of the county in which he c orn- expose themselves. Why, he would ask, had no at present present laws were eucient for the en tempt been made to execute the existing laws?— igeney, and had mitted the o ff ence should not serve him as a plea for ! . ed that any such attempt had ever been made. complained - that he was not /glowed to go into pa. not .. helms brought to justice in the county where he . , He de nied sole evidence in the Committee. lie (Lard C.) had should b e e taken, though he had not in that county 1 He, for one, therefore, could not give his consent •certeinly thought, and se expressed himself, that actually offended against the law. If „these disturb- :to the introduction of those new provisions, when : parole evidence would not be necessary for them to ' ances should unhappily continue, such measures as the existing laws bad not been executed. The Noble take that full, large view of the subject which would , these would,'lti his opinion, be absolutely necessary.e • I ord had alluded to extensive seizures of arms accu be required in Parliamentary transactions. It was ilt might, however, be hoped, that from the spring , mulated in one place—but he defiled that there was any evidence of this. Could the Noble Lord point . . evid ent that an evil existed, and it was necessary to , Which had lately been given to our manufactures, ' provide a remedy. -He apprehended, that Parliament ' on w and from the prospect of an abundant harvest, these ' t re ile 50 stand of arms had ever been seized at *might interfere for such a purpose, without enquiry', , , disturbances might cease. It was not his ssish to re- . incise time. It was true that, at Stockport, there on the mere notoriety of the thing. In this case, the .. sort to any measures farther than might be absolutely ; Were 200 stand of arms taken ; but how many were , matter was sufficiently notorious, and the notoriety , necessary for the peace and security of the cointtry. taken by the troops from the rioters at any one time, was backed by the Reporeof the Secret Committee. If the liarliament would give those enlarged powers was not known. It. had been said by one person J His Lordship then repeated, that Government had re- ,to the Magistrates, he 'thought much good- would that there was a depot of arms in a wood ; but 1 ceived advice from the Lieutenants of the Counties, accrue from it. These deluded and unfortunate men 'of this the evidence was not satisfactory.—lf so, and especially of the West Riding of Yorkshire, that : had, on all occasions, shown great respect to the however, that was the very place where he should the present laws were not able to repress the evil : . judgment of Parliament, and he hoped they would ;- wish the arms to remain, as it chewed so evidently they received also the •same information from a vacs- i 110 w bow fo that opinion as they had before done. It ; the want of skill and combination of those who could ety of Magistrates in the different districts, with de- ! war the unanimous opinion of his Majesty's Mim ia. i ever think of entrusting arras to such a place.— positions on oath, since confirmed by trials and i tees, that measures of the nature he had described, Another evidence had imputed all the mischief to ja convictions ; and also from secret intelligence, re- were absolutely necessary ; and having thus explain- cobinical emissaries, who had been at work every ceived from secret individuals Connected with .ed their nature, and the extent to which they were : where throughout the country ; but the evidence of different combinations, whose accounts were con- I meant to go, he would not detain the House longer j this person was of such a violent and contredictery firmed (by the subsequent actions of those corn- !at present, but would read the Motion with which j nature, as to shew that no reliance whatever was to binations. And, indeed, though there was a dif. he intended to conclude. His Lordship then moved, tbe placed in it. Another act of outrage Which had fereece of opinion iii the Committee on some par- " That leave be given to bring in • Bill fur time preservation i been laid great stress on, was the burning of West ticular points , yet, in the material features of the of the public peace, and to enlarge the powers of the Magi.- . Houghton Mill, which was said to have beetethe work een the dissurhed countiet.' l o f a most alarming combinatio'n. But a number of case, none remarked an essential difference. Such 'rah being the case, Government would still not be jus- Mr. WHITBREAD said, that the excuse of the ; persons who were concerned in that affair were tried tified in calling for extraordinary powers, unless Noble Lord and his Colleagues, for not soone- re. !at Lancaster, and paid the forfeit of their tires ; they could skew, that the existing powers had been questing the advice and assistauceof Parliament, was, : and what More more could be wanted than that ? A fairly exerted without success; and that on extraor- that they waited until they should obtain some in- great deal had bean said of the meeting on the Moor, dinary occasions extraordinary powers were neces- formation from the North, which should enable them i on the night of the 19th of April, immediately pre sary. The conduct of the Magistrates in the dis- ito make up their minds upon at least one subject ; , vious to time burning of the mill ; but of the forty turned districts had been highly meritorious ; but it not indeed upon the question of what measure should i persons who were present on the Moor, it appeared might happen from different circumstances, that the ;he recommended by the Cabinet, but whether they 1 from the evidence of the Colonel and Adjutant of Magistrates might not be so efficient in some places : should take upon themselves to recommend any at I the Bolton Local Militia, that ten were beret Mili as others: there were, however, no cases of failnre ' all. This was not a matter of much' importance asltiamen, disguised with blackened faces, who de of duty on which any accusation could be founded.. . respected the present debate ; but it skewed what i scribed themselves as having passed two by two, be- Assuming, therefore, that they had done all that ; confidence the House and the country were to place fore the General of them, whose name was Hurlt,' could be done, it was evident they had not been able !in men of such vascillaling minds, and of such hide- and who, along with the ten Militiamen, was the only to cope with the evil. Gove rn m en t had been mire- ! cisiou of character, in times like those in which we i persons in disguise there. lie could not but testify milting in its exertions. Very early a large military j lived. The Noble Lord had alluded to differences his dislike of this custom of espoinage. It appeared force was sent to the disturb e d counties ; beside ' of opinion is the Committee. The Noble Lord that one of these Militiamen endeavoured to ittstigate . this, that moat constitutional bodb the Local Militia, I wished merely to look at the surface of the evil : he i another person to burn the work-house, who imme- , had been called into service, and in every instance I (Mr- Whitbread) was anxious to ascertain its cause, . diately said, if we burn the work-house, we shall I had performed their duty with promptitude, zeal, `as the only means of applying an effectual remedy.— ! burn a number of poor people who 'are in it. " 0 and fidelity. Government. also, had givers extraordi. 1 That the short delay that would thus ha v e bee n oc _ , theeleyil care f or that ; " h e re pli e d, " l e t us only nary encouragement to Gentlemen to form volun. I casioned would have produced no injury, he had the do all the mischief we possibly can." It appeared, tar moteciations, assuring them, that peace could 1 satisfaction of knowing from the ciscutnstance, that therefore, that these misguided people had been fee. only be effectually restored by the interference of I from the 23d of June to the Bth of July, Ministers ! quently induced by such means to go greater lengths thud.) who possessed property and interest within I had received no further intelligence from those . than they would otherwise have• thought of. He the county : and, lastly, a Watch and Ward Bill . quarters, whose duty it would haie been to have ' would object strongly to the proposed measure of Lad been enacted, for the better maintenance of trate. : transmitted it, if the evil had been aggravated. The i searching for arms. The Noble Lord had had some quilli y in chose districts. The Noble Lord then i consevence of not being allowed to enter upon the experience in that way in Ireland, and we ought not said, be should in this place wish to mil the attention I verbal evidence, was the je few Report, with which . to throw away all our experience with respect to , r the house, to such precautionary measures as I the House of Commons had been affronted, and the : Ireland. Though the Noble Lord himself appeared to niie:t tend to counteract the evil which, to his mind,' House was left in comparative darkness, instead of 'be excessively soft and mild on this occasion, it was neeeseel to have arrived to so alarming an height, I being prOvided with such facts of the testimony, at impossible to forget that there were many experienc- Tan lew to be proposed, would be such as would : least, as could, without danger to the witnesses, be ,' etl.persons in the country at present under the coin aeely immediately to these particular districts, and i published. The Noble Lord had made a long state- I mend of Government. There were Lord Camden and lie would wish to confine its operation to such a limjt-iment of whet he called facts, which was wholly un_ i the Noble Lord himself, whose experience was ed term as might, in the wisdom of the House, be ; warranted in many parts by the Report upon the 'by no means contemptible. Was it not so ? Could deemed batty necessary' for its purposes. The mea- : table. Mr. Whitbread's wish had been to try the all this be so soon forgotten ? Why were arms -to be sure would include three points : the first was, more ' truth of the anonympus information communicated, : searched for ? This was the very way to produce dis ejectual proceedings with regard to the army,--the . but although he divided the Committee, and had nine , satisfaction in a country; as it would not only enable second, to provide more secure!y against tumultuous : votes out of nineteen iu his favour, they were obliged ' Government to search far arms, but to disarm the meetings,--and the third, to give a more extensive to content themselves with that intelligence which wholecountry. Thepeople whose arms were demanded power to the Magistrate s . Th e procee di ngs o f t h e G overnmen t th oug ht fit t o supp l y . lie called upon . might very well say, we will not give up oar arms, rioters had arrived to a very alarming pitch, particu- • the Noble Lord to point out to him any part of the ' for if we did, the - rioters would mark us out as hee led) i i the article of seizing arms. Some arias had Report upon the table, or of the documents on which . ing done so, and we should be unable to defend our. been taken so eerly as the month of March, but at' it was founded, which authorised the assertion he selves. There were many instances of individuals that time the instances were few ; they had lately had made, that there existed an army arrayed in who had repelled the rioters and defended themselves been more numerous, and as tee mischief seemed to the country, amid that it was necessary to put a stop .in a most gallant manner. The defence of Mr. be o;m the increase, it became the more necessary to 'to the increase of that army. Mr. Whitbread psi.; Cartwright, at Lawton Mill, was of that nature, tonal against it. The Magistrates had declared . tively denied that there was a regiment or company, ! and there were other instances. It was too much for themselves incapable of recover hug arms, taken in the or even half a company, organized. The Noble Lord . persons who had arms, but would not use them, to merles alluded to, with the powers with w hi c h th ey i had naturally shown a great reluctance t o en t er i n t o c all on the H ouse t o t a k e the m f rom these who were ! are at present invested by the law ; and it would,S the origin of these unfortunate events, but he would I willing to use them. This was .one of the most' oh- I therefore, he necessary to extend those powere. 'fife' allow him (Mr. Whitbread) just to remind him of jeerlonibte measures that Could be resorted to. In first regulation he should propose on this head, la few of their sources : the great cause was thediini. ; Ireland it certainly had not produced all the advan would therefore be, to invest the 'Magistrates with linden of the resources of the country by protract. tageous effects which had been expected from it; and power to seize not only arms that were stolen, but .ed warfare. The nation dependent for its prosperity ! its execution there was attended with horrors from ! secreted arms also. Many of those inhabitants in :on the success of its manufactures--the system of ; which the mind recoils. Did the Noble Lord mean these tteaultitouts districts who were actually well : policy pursued during the last twenty years, had re- ' to say that houses might be entered by night as well disposed, had refused to give up their arms, unless ! duce(' the manufacturing claeses to a state of dis- ,as by day ? When people were seen to be so heated] they were forcibly taken from them by the Magi- ! tress which. had given rise to the disturbances so , with terrors and apprehensions, as in the present strates, for fear they should he PX;;OS . CCI to the resent-; much lamented in Nottingham, Yorkshire, Lan- i case, and calling out for short processes; and when in I meat of the rioters; he would, therefore, propose to i cashire, and Cheshire. The Noble Loud had talked I one place it Was said the danger was not alarming, : give a power to the Magistrates to take arms where- likewise of leaders, but where was there one to ! and in another they were calling out for all the ever they might be found, merely for the purpose of be found ? Only in the terrified imaginations I most rigourous measures of a despotic Government 9 , keeping them in safe custody, to be. re-delivered to' of Ministers. No distinct combinations were it , wasimpossibl e to say what consequences such a their owners when an alteration in the circumstances ' proved: no one, two, or three men were found ! power might not produce. On these grounds he of the country should warrant such a restoration of j connected to manage the proceeding s o f th e rioters :: certaialr should trot vote for the Bills of the Noble their properte. This was the outline of the merle I they were on the contrary, all dis-united, and dill. :Lord. Had he asked merely for a concurrent juris. sure, so far as relat e d t o arms . • Wi t h regard to i joined, without even any appa ren t and settled per- I diction to the Ma g istrates of different counties, he the next point,—the tum u lt uous meet i ngs , h e sa p. j p ose . That the distress existed was certain, and the i should have at once voted for it.. He denied that hosed the House would see the danger, as well 1 cause of it was equally obvious, as well as that the ' there • ,was any evidence of any funds whatever, being ft v the impolicy o f s u ff er i ng a numerous army to origin of the disturbances was that di s t ress . B ut was lat the " command of those people. It appeared on be assembled in the country, that watt not there the shadow of evidence to shew that.there was raised under and by the •controul of elm King. In any such dreadful and terrific c om bi nationsl as the money, and had the utmost difficulty in contributing many places in Nottitikhamshire, Lancashire, and the , Noble Lord, had conjured up ?. It was-true that de- their miserable two-pelmet, and in some places ten- West Riding of Yorkshire, where these ttimultneus : signing men had taken advantage of this dieorgani ' sm- penmen. For want of money the whole system of proceedings prevailed, meetings were held on a hill ! tion to promote their private and unworthy view Manchester fell to the ground . One man, who during the time of Divine Se rv i ca . A s so on as such , b u t no t to prorinee general di ssa ti s f act i on against t he. ro . ;turned inf nab or r, said he had been promised 30s. and an assemblage was known, the MaWstrateL. might ; constitute , ' authorities, or to overturn the.Goeern. had received riot more than 14s. 10d. Another per proceed to meet them, Might read the Riot Actr—and Mont. It was sidle lieu' to imagine that it could be' son who - applied for 20s. was long refused it,. till he then their power was at an end; fertile tumultuous !to. Where a.t the disturbances begin? JO Not. :received the strongest assurances of being reimbuts aesemblage might move off, and there would be an t tingham. What was the orign? Disputes betireen ed, and ,at last. gave 19s. keeping one shilling for end of the business for that time. li e tho u ght, there- 1 the workmen an d their matters . What was the s t a t e himself. These were all the funds which,they had' fore, the Magistmteashould have thepower to Ms- i, of Nottingham now ? Profoundly quiet. Stith, he to foster' distonteitt. The revocation of the Orders )erne theta; mad in doing so, that such persona as trusted, ifthe Itl.were sigorossly'ezecujpl s wou44 in Council gave* the greatest reason to sapimose t that the evil would subside itself. There was anothe r reason to which the slisturba laces might be attributed, namely, the high price of provisions. When there was a great population, not absolutely starving, but greatly straitened for food, it was impossible to ex!), ost they would he in the same contented state as in b, tip r times. All the persons who had been called to ;;•,:, evidence concur in stating, that their hopes of the restoration of order depended on a ccod harvest._. There was but one remedy for all these evils, which must unavoidably be borne, so long as peace could not be obtained. But peace ought by all metros t o be obtained if RassibLe • for the country was goi ng progressively info a stifirirthings from which every thing was to be feared. The Right Honourable (;e 1) , tleman over against him must be aware of the I rwll of what he was statitig, as he had predicted, if pei luE r was not Made in time, we sbould soon becomp.dled to make it whether we would or not. Peace w ref the only remedy for our internal grievances, and the only remedy for our external grievances also. And, in his opinion, a more favourable occasion for a neral peace never existed than we had at this time: It had been said that the disturbances were ocrasiem, ed by the instigation of our enemy, and that a cor resprnd lice had been carried on betweeu the riot ers and the prisoners of war. The Nobb. Lord knew very well there was no ground for this Report. The number of prisoners in this country at present was certainly a very great evil; and even if pare could not be obtained, that evil mi;ht perhaps bt, remedied by an exchange of prisoners. But on this subject he would not take up the time of the Rouse. Ile would conclude with stating, that he was exceed.. ingly glad he had watched the evidence given in the Committee. The Repo,rt of the Noble Lord, though not expressed in the same language as a publication which he had seen, which certainly drew the most extravagant and unwarranted conclusions from the evidence, lad a most unquestionable tendency to ex cite the same unwarranted alarms. WILBEILFORCE, alluding to the obserra: tions of the Holt. Ge.tt. who precedel him, on the subiect of Peace, thou,Ott that bpsulfering evils like the present to exist, without any adequate restrtiot we should place the country in such a situation, that we should be unnable to treat for peace on a proper and honourable footing, and to obtain such terms as would be consistent either with our security or our honour. It was impossible for him, connected as he was with that part of the country which was the scene of disturbance, to contemplate the necessity for the provisions now propos-A to be introduced, without feelings of a most paiuful nature. • In his opinion, his Majesty's Ministers had set about this business in a right spirit, and continued to be actuated by it.— They appeared td him not to wish to outrun the ab solute neeessite of the case. They certainly did not at present go beyond the necessity of the case. In spite of all the unpopularity which might attach to such a declaration, he would go even toe length of saying, that if Government had asked for larger powers, not-for the purpose of carrying them at once into execution, but for the sake of, as it were, feel ing their way cautiously, according to the actual si tuation of the country, he, for one, would have irld no hesitation in consenting to bestow Such po Off on them. His lion. Friend (Mr. Whitbread) observed, that the powers already conic, red on the , Magistrates had not been executed -It ti as foe Members sitting at their ease in that House, to talk of the way iu which laws might be carried into exe cution— He jests at scars who never felt a wouni. In his opinion it ought not to be rashly concluded that the Magistrates were deficient In spirit, because they found the laws inadequate to the preservation of tranquillity. The Magistrates said they could obtain no information on oath against any individuala, and therefore could not execute the laws as they stood. The terrible measures which were resorted to, of as sassinating and burning of houses, indisposed every person to come forward to give evidence. His Hon. I Friend had refer Ted to the Irish Rebellion, and said ! that it made him view the present measures with the greater alarm. He had heard it stated by persons, I on who:1-e veracity he could put every reliance, who were well acquainted with the Irish Rebellion, that they never were so astonished as when they observed so many particulars, exactly the same in 1 the case before our eyes, and that of Ireland. [Hear, hear!) It was certain that the strongest mea sures were recommended, not by persons on the spot, who might be supposed to be undor the influence of due alarm, but by a person who was in a more im / Martial situation, and who could not be possibly un der any personal apprehension. The measures did not originate in the fear of these wcevanish Magis trates, as they had been represented ; they were ask ed for by persons of the coolest heads, and the !•bravestitrarts; but his Majesty's Ministers were un- Iwilling to resort to them till they were idispensible. With regard to the source of the disorders, it was a 'subject of great delicacy, but he could not avoid . stating thus far. He could not agree with his lion. Friend, the Member for Bedford, that they pr seeded from an interruption to commerce, or w scarcity of provi6ions. He must state that the dis ease was, in his opinion, of a political nature.-- [Hear, hear!] He would not quarrel with Ms lion. Friend for the contrary opinion . which he entertain• ed; and bis lion. Friend would allow, that he eon ' curred with him in wishing for . More thoroughly in ! aestigating into all the particulars of this subject. — Alas ! alas! He wished he could herecl , the disor ders were owing to any such accidental and tempo rary causes.-L[llear, hear !]—lt was undoubtedly true, that the state of the country, from the high• price of provisions and - the want of empleyment, was. such as to incrrise the disFontents. Under such ch curnstances popular discontents would always thrive; they always grew up and llouriAd in a rank soil; but this disease arose from causes of a mare deep and general nature. It arose from the pains take t, in certain mischievous publications, to alienate the affectious of the people from the laws and govern ment of the country, and to stir them up to measures mischievous to the community and miserable to tt em selves.—[!fear, hear !)—But he would not enlarge on this subject : it was too gloomy to dwell on. Temporary discontents had beep known formerly to take place from a disagreement about wages or so; but they ought not to be deceived. Was it not known that letters were sent to individuals threatening asses. Inflation and burning of houses, and that these I # I • , I . i i 1 a k i . i .,. , . , , • :, 4 , 1 I ,1 V I f~ g R 5 111 Ifor sys the Ise tli Ii( Ito vi Al 41