The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-05-17 00:00:00

average of three years, and that if the ave rage of the years 1808, 1806, and 1810, should exceed the fortner asferage, the excess shOithl be at the disposal of Parliament for the interest of the loan, or any other service of the'vear." The principle upon which this proceeded, was en provemeet in the existing sources of revenue, gnided •by the average as he had stated. If' he were on the present occasion to resort to such a process, it would answer his purpose.--7--' But he did nut mean to adopt this 'principle;, he merely referred to it to show that compared' with what had been the opinion of that Roasts,. before the course which he 'proposed, coal& not be considered as improper. HispropOsittost rested not merely on the improvement of the reve nue, best also on the produce of additional WO imposed on stamps. Ile, therefore, submitted that proposition to the lipesti, at one Which it WAS proper, wise and exiiedient to , adopt. In•looking at the Consolidated Fund, it might not be impel.. per to advert to the state' of this Trade 'of the country. The 'Howse already knew that the es. ports and importrollast year had been . far above What they had been iit . any fisimer year.. • In 1802,, a year of p-ace, 'and of Ike gictatest *sort and' export, the export of 3 British M MANCLASOS amount e.l to 26,993,0001. Last year it staountea 35,000,0061. snaking a difference of 'about' liOns. The cavort o f foreign goods was lasi last year, but the House would think this mach more than compensated by the great increase in the ex." port of British 'produce. The total export last year had been to tittltmount of in round numbers fifty millions; in 180 1 3 forty-six millions, 'Making a difference in favour or last year . of about' four millions. He nest stateifthe eipat, of British; produce, on the aitrage')Of the years: 1808.9, amounting to 32,942 0 0001. and then took the highest average of any two fernier years, amouht. ing to .31,683,0001. All • this Was suf fi cient to prove, that in spite . of, the pecifliareireumstances , Of the times, out foreign . Wade continued to at) van,. lie then monis to 'thP State of the internal trade of the country. 'On this head they had not the means of acquiring such accurate Information, but he was informed that the cloth trade of York shire had increased to the amount of a million end a Half. It was indeed impossible to look round, without seeing on all sides the symptoms of a go. neral increase of tiodelatil wealth ; gicat works, canals, warehouses, ° docks, inclosures, &c. ophich could only be carried on by en vicateols. (jou of tradii and wealth. This was intintitelr connected with the present subject, is it afforded the best hopes with respect to our r o to re, resources, amid proved, that whatever might have' ben thrown out by persons of groat uUthority, that there was no reason to apprehend that we were a felling nation, but' that whatever might be the pressure on particular brandies of trade, greatly as that wee to be lamented, there was nu reason to apprehend any great calamity, no cause fur desponding.- ilighlygratifying as this view of Oar resources must be to the people of tins nation, it NFU also of great importance in regard to our t 0... reign relations. Our enemy had raid; ,that he ' wanted ships, colonies and commerce—no doubt with a view to turn the wholauf silieteversirength be might derive from this source against. this coun try. What had been his progress, and what hail been ours? His course was not progressive, but retrograde. He had, lost Whatever colo . nies he had before, and whatever commerce ; and his whatever it was, he was forced to marine to his harbours. . It would also not be improper to re fer to the revenue of France, as stated in an ae. credited paper. The customs for the year 1808, it appeared, had beeA below two-thirds of the sum of the year before ; and thisahe Minister of Finance said was rather a consolation, because • salvia they lost as to import, we lost as to export . --;so that we must soon be ruined I All this ought td.be bane in mind by those who ascribed all wisdom and energy to Bonaparte's goveratnent,. 'and alirohY and imbeeility to that of this country. The general state, *ereit of the • trade aid revenue - of this country, was highly favourable, and fully just,fied him in the view winds he had taken of our future prospects. He concluded by propsising the Resolution; that taelve millions be raised by way of annuity, do. • . Mr. H t K Aid not know whether his • Right liono arable friend; fts his Very . able.'state. , , - snent, alluded to him as one of thoseWhOtholight . the &sentry io a frilling condition :- If be did, it was a mistake, because hefted neither,thOught rior• said any such thing. lie thoughtihe countrY'was in a state of progressive improvement, which, in a country vikhre property was so woll protectid; could only be stepped by Some 'What h e had said was, that it woe hl • to entitle* taxes,, which would not be o t tireately• objectionable—that there was a limit Intaxation• - s - and that we hid nearly reached that limit; fiat he was correct in aft this, the statement of his night liOnnurithio'friend prated. as trust 'hiuSsielf have fait iliforee, 'before he could mike 'up his missals) propose' the mods Which ke intend ed to adopt to supply the Indani of the year.— He had hiard nothing (ram his "tight Honourable .friend in contradiettofi to he (Mr. ifeSkis. son)" had stated On a former occasion : ; and he really wishecPthat something Opsiiiisscould be gut front his Right Honourable Friend upon this sob • ject. He' wished to know whether he thought it possible, for any' great number of years, to con,. linos adding from to 14 . 00,0001. every . year to the public burthens? Whetheihe thought, this Would be sutlicient • on the present plan, even if it could be procured ?—and, whether he hoped - I that the, war could be continued in this way ? his Right Honourable'. Friend had net' touched on these points; but he thungbt'that his Right Hon. Friend owed it to the country to state what hie views were on the subject, 'opposing the'viar tis t continue for a great number of years, as, in, probability, it would. Supposing the presump. duos balanced as to the long continuance of thi: war, and the speedy conclusion of peace ;''andi this he thought was a very sanguine view of the matt,o - ; even then, be said, that it concerned us to look ai our means of supporting it for a great , number of years. lie maintained, that without raductiou of the scale of our annual expeudi. • . T ti ~. .. z iiircinldlelmposslble to carry on the war for any lung time. Even in' the event of peace, they would nut be -without their difficulties, as it . would-be expected that a considerable share of the public burthens shotild'be reduced. When his Honourable Friend took part of the sur plus' of the Consolidated: Fund to meet the add;-. tional chtrge of the present 'year, he . did not 'ouch Improve the prospect its the event of peace. He advised the House to consider well the naeure 4vtd extent, and applicability of their resources, **Rh a view to peace and , war. It was impossible 'always to go in this way, from expedient . to ex pedient; Satisfied with gutting over the difficulty ,of one year, without adverting to the next. • He begged the . House to consider to what, if they Went an in this way, they would come at last ? He here related an anecdote which was current in France before* ttevoltition—s-ome person asked, the 'Minister ofFittance how they were to go on for a number of years ? his answer was, that the state of things, such as it was, wonid last their time; and after them, no matter what' became of the. It. nances. In a few years after came that hoisi. hie catastrophe, the French Revolution. Ile did not moan to say that any Minister of this country Would have . uttered or conceived so unworthy a• sentimett but if the geese did not take an ex. tensive view of the subject, and provide accord. (ugly, it would not do its dety. He thought. that by suitable re deetiotts peovieion might eo made fur Wolk alternitivai, of peace and .wae,• and that without any rlinsigition of our dominions, or of the proper means' of defenceend carrying un the war. If he .had not thougitt•ins, he would 'not •have been so ready to come forward with lOs ideas on the subject: He had no doubt. that this might - , beilone. Ile would not betray the secret.of OUT -troakness, but the measure of our strength. would not enter•at length into thesultjeet ; but' next session it wouttl be the duty of Parliament to consider it with attention. His Right Ilenoura. Me Friend had resorted to a source which, would ' not mail in other years.' If .he could have found taxes to answer his purpose, it would have been a Meth better course, .and. one which no doubt he ,would have adopted.' Adverting to that part of the statement where the increase of the duty on stamps from 106,0001. to 1,200,0001. had been ascribed to the regulations and additions of 1808, he . obiervod that the stamp duties had been cense. solidated in 1806, and hail been increasing by the usual growth of the revenue, and the better mode of collection, as well as by the new duties. There e ere some articles, such as hank paper, &c. in. which a diminution might be calculated upon, though he allowed that an increase might be ex pected in other articles. lie disavowed whatever . share of merit might be ascribed to himself for any thing he had done in 1808 on this bead. The sound principle was to take the whole of the taxes and the charge upon thou.' They. were in some , instances above, in others below the charge, alto gether certainly above. But this course of his Right Honourable Filend would only create the ,necessity of adding another million to next year's boats, so that it was only shifting the ground ; he might as well have placed the charge upon the war taxes. It was, hei'ever, a cheering part of the statement, that an additional burden• was to he created this year. With regard to the statement au the whole, however, lie hail been disappointed. When. Ministers had made up their minds to advise his Majesty to er)mise that the accounts would be made up- with a rigid attention to economy, he lad expected that a considerable reduction was to have taken plea. He thought that reductions hail been ititentied to be made in some of the larger estab lishments. ke did not say that any very great di. mitintion could he made ; but he thought a reduc tion of some millions might lie elrecte,l without in. jury to the country. He then adverted to the ar., goraants which had been used by one of the Lords . of the Admiralty (Nit.. Ward) fur keeping up the number of seamen to 1.15,000 men. It had been said that,it was desirable to have a navy, nut only sufficient to cope with the whole world- at sea, but also a considerable reserve. To the general propo sition, that it was desirable,.he would assent ; but. then he must balance the advantages and chile:lvan !ages. It was customary for people out of doori to say-that liberty -was desirable; so it was ; bisC then the Government of the country must se far• infringe on that liberty, as to provide the Ways and Watts of the fear, Ile repeated, that it was. too much the practice for officers of Gore:Tempt' to took at the expenditure in their several depart., mends, as applied to a favourite Object of- pursuit. It had been said we might. be in difficulties with; America; but it had not. beett.statod thet there' was...,any particular reason to apprehend this.— ,'then the use of a large.reserve had been argued lesson from' theediatortch which least been evinced its sending,out the Expedition to Copenhagen.-.- But in 1801, large Expedition bad been sent to Copenhagen, and with great diratch, when the. number.of seamen was mach mealier, and the salts upon th emealier, service of the Nivy mite larger. There were no less than ninety.tour sail of the line, : French. Spanish, &c. Before the battle of Tree falgarthe enemy had large fleets, and the numbers of our kennel did nut exceed 120,000 at that •titne. He thought .tielet•rdistiuction between the present naval War, and • former *wars of the same ;description, was nut sufficiently attended to.— The object formerly was to oppress the commerce of the enemy, but, now even with 200,000 sea leen ',tithing could be done. By the injury done to . his. commerce usd revenue, we might have ihoped furmerly to have driven the; enemy to rea "enable terms of petted... Now, however, there ;MAX no hgpe of doing. this by any such means. al Bight' HonoeraWe Friend had ailed, what progress Bonaparte hail made in his favourite ob ject, of obtaining ships, colonies, and commerce. Bat Bonaparte had altered his policy in that re spect, for it now seemed to be his policy to de. atroy commerce altogether, and whatever defici ency might be occasioned in his revenue, lie would have no scruple in supplying by exactiens of any kind. He had, besides, the commend almost of the whole Continent, and could draw his supplies from all quarters by land. He concluded by ied verting to the state of Ireland, which bail to laise five millions by extraurdivary moans. Hw depre- . . . rag sTATismAN. cited any thing like despondency as to our re sources . , but at the same time urged the propriety and necessity of husbanding them as much as pos. sible. Mr. ROSE concurred- in the wish of his Hon. Friend who \spoke last, that every practicable re treuchment should be adopted, and that opinion s he hail already -communicated out of doors. He felt strongly, that his Right Hoe. Friend (the ,Chancellor of the Exchequer" would present him self before the. House next Sessions with a very bad graite, if he did nut prove that the utmost attention had been. paid to economy in the public expendi tere ; but to -what amount the wished-for reduc- , don of that expenditure would extend, he thought , it impossible at present to calculate. There was happily, however, no reason to entertain any gloomy apprehension. ,, But. sufficient for the day wits she evil thereof. 'There would, he trusted, be a considerable reduction in the expenditure of the navy, as his Hun; Friend had estimated, from the present state of the enemy. •As to the propriety of a provision for future years, and of an addi tional tax at present in lieu of the proposed ap. propriation of the surplus of the stamp daty, he could not help observing, that we had dime quite - enough fur our posterity, and he helped, that they would be able (o do as much for themselves. Wo had, in fact, made such arrangements for the ,benefit of those who are to come after us, that no lasi than teas millions per annum, were set apart to -relieve them from debt, which sum was more than the whole revenue of the country, when he first entered into public life. How the resources of the country had been so prosperous as the statement , of his Right Honourable Friend displayed, hsde dared himself unable to account. But somehow it appeared, that front the industry and ingenuity of tior merchants, every prohibitory measure of Sonaparte had utterly failed of its object. In fact, instead of limiting our tradei it had rather extended iM i s pita of 'the huitile proceedings of the enmity. - Mr: ULTSKISSON disapprolted of his Right Honourehle Friend's measure in this instance, that sufficient fur the day was the evil.. thereof. On thocontrary, lie thought it would be wise, in the present circumstances of the collet...ye to consider of an arrangement• of some permanent system ealenlited to guard against future evil. Mr. TIERNE' thought •it necessary that some inquiry should be instituted as to the cause of the present state of our resources, in order to ascertain whether that cause was likely to be per manent, or merely of a temporary nature. This inquiry appeared the more necessary, as even an old Menthes of the Board of Trade professes) .himself unable te sae:emelt for that prosperity upon which the House had been" congratulated. As to re trenchment, he heard no proposal of it—lie enuld see no sign of it---notwithstendieg all the profes sions that had been made, lie saw a vote of Cre, (lit equal to that of the last year, when we had Austria and Sweden to subsidize ; and this vote tun additiue to that already granted to Portage!. What then could be the object of this vote ? it reiteitity requirellexplaeation. As to the rise in ,the prico of Throe per Cent. Stuck, he thouglit itsoWing" to artificial - causes, by llo,Mealls time of ahlienal prosperity, although enabling the (tight ,lionourahle Gentleman to conclude the Loan. upon such advantageous• terms. lint the • Right t - lionouraliks Gentleman seemed to have a greet deal of good luck to help - him out. In the first year of his fioanciar duties, the• Lean was provided by his predecessors ; in the second year, betueen 3 and -400,0001. of Annuities fell in; and now a surplus reduce - Of Taxes offered, which, however, he thought the (tight Honourable Gen tleman was grossly misapplying, in setting apart to pay the interest of the Loan. This surplus ought rather, in his judgment, be included in the produce of the, Consolidated Fund, to which it properly belonged, and a thew' tax imposiel to defray the 'interest of the loan. But the Right lienourable Gentleman broke a wisely-establish cd principle, merely to make a fetch at papal. Parity, by a show of declitsine new taxes. This, however, all thinking men-must feel to be mere &- lecke). For the sum thus taken from the Conso lidated Fund must be. again supplied by new taxes.; andif the Right Hon. Gentleman should gte on`fruni year to year, appropriating a part of the surpluseof the Consolidated Fund to pay the in terest of his loans, it was obvious the public could not ultimately be gainers. • But the Right lion. Gentleman was in fact violating his contract with the public creditors, who lent their money upon the 1 security of the Stamp Tax, by appropriating the' surplus of its prodoce to the payinent of the in. 1 serest upon a new Loan, and lie . was also neglect- j ing to make provision for the future. Was the '1 Right Min.. Gentleman aware, w h ile he thus de clined to look to future difficulties, that lie would in the event of peace to-morrow be obliged to J find nine or teu millions aeyear, of new taxes ? Why then be Ito improvident on this occasion ' Ho was not one of those who despaired of the re. sources of the e couotry, oc wished to damp its spirit, but he would strongly . recommend the. Right lion. Gentleman to look minutely into our situation. NVith that view he advised the Right 1 Honourable Gentleman, at an early period of the Session, to institute a similar inq u iry to those which took plaeo in'l7B2 and 96. The necessity 1 for such an investigation was 'ebyious, nil. the satisfaction of the Howse acid of the cbmitry it ought to be immediately entered into. He was persuaded that the Right Honourable Genttcsuen did not himself know how the country was going on, or how to calculate upon the meens of our ,future provision. Lt Was not for-the Right neural& Gentlemin e in the present state' and pros. peel of Europe, to he contented with the making of shifts. for a Session or„teo, bet to took to some permanent system—to look particularly to the reduction of our espendithre, for which no disposition, whatevet was manifestede and to. ab stain from crippling the Consulidated• Fund. ' Mr. - PERCEVAI, vindicated the appropriation he proposed. Tee Stamp TAIL alluded to UM. confessedly much 'more than • was originally esti mated. This -was a mistake, and: the only way of correcting- that mistake was by applying the stir_ plus to the relief of the public hum any new tax. • • ~.~.. -r 7'11 , " ,Tr"-".. • • ... • 'R^ .. - Him busied that this surpips canal bb flAtfy deemed 'as a•ptift : 'of what was - signally Can't: Willa surplus sif-tha Consolidated ?hod, and :therefore the Right ibritourable.,.ticatientaa's objections were inapplicable., . That- there was a satin g i s .tbu. proposed • expeuditure would, he asserted, 41,d obvious to any Man who examined the several ,heads of ' expente, • imeticularly in the O r d. ,Caot.e, the Army and Navy. As to the Vote Of Credit, another opportunity would (Ke ll , for discussing that 'topic. 13u1. although, from the pretent state a 'Europe, - it was deemed m i x. dient to plate:tech a Soon ilt the dispi.ssi of hi s . Majesty, it did not follow that *Unlit he expend. ed. With respect to thy Right Hisoutirald o G en . tleman's allusion 'to his good lock, he observed, that the Right Honourable . .Gentlesuau scooted quite sore upon that 4inint.' HA the effects q this good luck, as the Higta Honourable Good e , man would iiave it, furnished another obstacle to the wish of his _Hight Nei. Friend. For it sp., peered that, notwithstanding all the drivelliogsod blundering ascribed to him and his colleagues, the country was tinder their Covertimeilt, mitt is a state of prosperity, which the Right lion. Geode. man and his Friends, with all their talents, t . I not deny. As to the reduction whieb had ;A cts 1 place in the produce •of the :Halt Doty, that, so. toriously arose out of the stoppage of the I ta i t:fi e . I ries, which could only be of a temporary duca -1 lion ; and he had the CitisNetion to think that this was the only branch of our cerme t() o t t i c i i h ad tottered in the slightest degree of diminution. The Right Honourable Gentleman concluded with ob. , serving, that he, did not mean in his all us i on to 1 his lononrable Friend (Mr. iiiiskisson), to ittsi. lunite that his lionosicable Friend meant, in a former declaration of his, to create the f a l se jai. pression respectifos out* umeans, Which it certainly produced. But lie thoolglot it right to adteri t o it, as the present appeared a proper opportunity for removing that imprisssion. Ms. Tl ERN E I. and Mr. PEE - WE VAL mutu ally explained. .. Mr. 11. TIIORNTON. was apprehensive that the caicolatimi Upon. thirlittristus, of the Co m*. lidlii . 4 Fund woold be food. to be rather vague and uttcdrtain ; the .prodoess ,osf the year:. 1806, ..,pon, thafiend which had !mot so. m uch relied oss, was in great pa'rt 'owing to the predict Otike du, ties siptin Stamps, ratl4o Oats to any none, T au s 1 erected at that time - The great olsject wiSiild be t o ' kei i i the lornme and . eXpeutlitero of the.tortit. try within one aoottre i r ; the. surp/us .0( the L oam fur each year over Oil ikniting eioN4l had. not tie. creased.' in tlie due. proportnin ; thu increase of isroduet in 1808 easel beets owing pritiripatly to the mere - modification of li duty ad ruforeire, and Could not make the-priaciple of any kited and defitsite calculation. lie seemed its think that it would go. mare to equalise the 'mutual propos... lion the noCutile and expenditure should beat to eat:ll'ooer, to resort in some . degrees to the aid of new taxes. . Mr. PFACE VA f, admitted that thi produce in some isiossnre to the in 1808, had beettowiug Stamp Duties, hut its a still greater proportion to the new Llogu!ittiou then erected. Af ter m o n o further observations from Mr. lioskiason, Sit Thomas Turbos, and Mr. Rose, the Resolutions were • read amt agreed to, and the Report, the louse having resumed, was ordeftdto be reccirall - .r. on Friday. • • • . IMAMS OF A DILI It A LTY.—DiTICE OF "134UVS WICK'S ANNUITY. Mr. TIER N El" wished to know if the Right Honourable Gentletnan would consetst to postpone the question on the • third reading of the Hill, I granting the annuity to the Duke of Drumstick, from to-morrow for one fortnight ; as if he Would consent to do so, lie (M r. T.) 'would defer his Mo. lion respecting the !hints of Admiralty for that period. . . 1 . I. Mr. PE RC EV . A fAlissenting to do so, Mr. TIERNEV gave. notice, that he would to. morrow take the sense of the louse tr i ton the sub. 1 ject. . - IRL,II FLAX SEED. Mr. FOSTRRpostpouctl his caution respecting the Irish Flax Seed Tuesday. itowntllAanoute—DUßLlN. Mr.-FOS ER, postponed his titotion relative to Ilowth Harbour till Milstlay. SIR GF.GRGE +MME. Sir JOHN NEWPOwr posipuned his nratiott • t respecting Sir 'George S ill - to=unigraw (this day) se'nuight. • • FOREIGN SALT Rill.: *lt , • • Mr. A. COOPER brought:up the killed of the Foreign Salt Bills which was received, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to.morrosr. He also brought up. the Report of the Irish Strong Beer (loamy Committee ; a hen a Bill was ordered to behronght in pursuant to their Resolutions. 'The Hawkers' and Pedlars' Bill WAS ordered VA he'read a third time to.morrow..— Adjourned. - - A shocking catastrophe occurred at the house of Mrs. Limn, in Doke-street, Oxford-W..o'i , on Monday night, Miss Julia Anna Lomat, het. daughter, having. gone into her bed-room let the candle fall, which set fire to her dress, and hp; which she was so much !HUM that she died at sir. o'clock on Tuesday morning. A female child, not more than two months old,. was found in an open boat flouting down the above Westmitister.bridge, on Tuesday e'ren••• ing. It was decently di•essed, and carefully a ral).• pea up in flannel. A pipes aas Amnion ON; bro. som of the infant, imps:l:soaq it as. an unpristectl. eel oruhan. t• 4411" 4a9; at linue Cetauctiter-plare,, tin Lady of ihr WOWS, , s- _ cp. , Yesterda,v* the tidy hlitybress, only (laughter of the' litilCistiPmf.the olAttd Atoottr, to 'I hoinas Kennedy,. liwi. of Clutrlfttte-steeTt.. The eteretniroey wireperfornotNl Kt St, Ste-- pben's• Wolhitietke, by the Rev, hloutey. Woody IN Vr 6. * [ ttilik;s,Qhtilllitt. 1 ir•TI • L.-- • - Tliursday I •st,, nt Cli, too. Mn. B..szionalt; POitoon, of Rokilitioeplo-ro Wilmsl)sl3, sister to me laie..er:er Pea . - soo. Lay. of Cie likier. Temple. - LONDON Pultil:dierl by b. i.o V ELL M tuc Si kl ES3i 434 01 lit L big rltYl-~l(et4 r I s, & K •