The Statesman. — London, England, 1822-07-02 00:00:00

• , n' daty, go*. aMt &boa to collect. at the average tale for the tWO leetelitirdbsed of at cent. These were the taxes they ought to re- Maids cost so much for collectime. With regard eland, the same exhorbitant rate wes app Castors , and Excise for collection. Sorely the House would not to e the maharanee of each an abase. They ought to Committees of that House epos title subject. Omit oners were very good, hut by no means equal to Com es of that house for inquiry. They did net posse's sme power. With regard to the Colonies, which a source of expense, instead of revenue, be must bat it would be far better that the department be. ing to the Right Hon, Secretary for Woods and Po , should be conducted by the Commissariat, by It kr:bald be done at so ranch less expense. He 4 nest so, to the dead weight, which he must say unfairly managed. instead of filling op new lid appointments from the Retired List. new ones were ght forward, whilst the old remained a dead weight 'fon. Ht would take the liberty of proving what ad asserted. by a reference to ate Lottery depart t, by which would be seen the improper persons ten to pat into office as far as age went. Lookeug he list of persons of first appointments. here be ni as individual 47 years of age put into a first ap. moment with a sultry of 2251. aear. Here, he was it wool,' strike the House as it had struck him. that ionger•perstar might have been selected from the which would have, possessed a double edema. t. Upon this list. however, Istioand the second se 'tweet was a person of 37 veers of age; the third the fourth 45 ; tie next 47; aid the following s 21. 24, 69, 36, 46, 34 ; all of which he coo led, might have gone to reduce by so much the d weight on the country. In the department of Hawkers and Pedlars, and Hackney Coaches, the e practice was visible. The appointments there salaries of 331,1 . a year. first appointments, were and 62 yeses of age, and them went on from 26 To years, affording as lie thought a tolerable sam e( a desire rather to add than diminish the dead ght. When the concerns of the Hank of England re to be discussed before that House, lie undertook flew that instead of three per cent. they received six. ippeared that their military establishmen's were of a cli larger extent on mermen of the state of Ireland; I indeed in looking back it was toned that at ell tee latterly this had been the case. arising. as he eon tied, from the sal-administration of the affairs that country, and also from the absolute akness they macre.% from all' the capital being taken t of the country, which should there be employed for support of the labouring classes.—(Hear, hear.) — ere was se way, he was convinced, to bring about an eetual reduction of taxation het the appointment of ,unnittees of that [louse thoroughly to examine into s abuses in the mode of collecting the revenue, and the a complete revision of our 6 system. From pressing these sentiments he did not wish it to go road that he took a gloomy view of the situation of e country. The cultivators of the soil were in a state considerable distress. and nothing would be more rates' to them than a reduction of taxation; and re wding the present situation of ell the great interests of e country, he thought this was the best time to look to these matters. The talent, the industry, the know dge and science of the 'radon were increasing, and mid enable them to pay eves greater than their re st hordes,. bat that formed no justificatioa for increas g them note; ray. lie was emavreeed the country would s ralt in lemma% prosperity. set in consequace of rtiovernment a bat's tits of its bed one. He abstain from further labial( up their time, as sly opportunities wneld occur for addressing them pAO On these stiliecte.; He had rather on the present mission confined himself so what the Noble Marquess *trite, the real Flosses Moister, bad thrown out hen he first reposed the Badget to them la the early set of the Sessiso.—(Hear.) Mr. ELLICE contended that the result of the baseells: of sbe Exchequer's stetemeot that evening as, that there was not a Sinking Fund of more than roe or two pillions. He believed they had all agreed pus ens thing en this subject, which was. that a ser ies revenue alone, formed a Sinking Fund, and it fol owed of course, that the West of the see, Tab mea tired by the amount of the other. The Hon. seat into a detail of .the beads of the expenditure old revenue to thew that the surplus was smaller thee ire millions. All that he (M. E) congratulated the lOW upon was, that nest year this system of delusion was to end. From the gross mismanagement of the Sinking Fund, he ttiaintaioed that the country suffer ed a loss of five millions. He had no doubt that the inertia of the country were in a 6 iurithing state; but gthey had a real Sinking Fond. it ought to be ap plied to the reduction of taxes. They had many yeti lions on their table to this effect. Every shilling that was formerly paid to the public creditor was now paid doubly, when every other species of property was de preciated one Half. Taking this view of the case, he agreed with some of his Hon. Friends, that they ought to look into this question with a view to a reduction of the mnount of the patine debt by a fair commutation. At present, the public creditor appeared in a very invi. dioos point of view. Mr. RICARDO observed, that the Right lion. Gen tleman opposite had laid girat stress upon the exist ence of the Slaking Fund to the amount of five mil lions this year, and had prouii,ed their. one of six soillielne fur the year 1:.'24. if all went on as be anti cipated. But the only Sinking Food there could be most be a surplus of revenue ; and looking at it in this way, be contended t!•at there was but 1,400,0001. The total amount of their revenue was 53,807,0001,; ti,e total amount of ev, , was 51,839.0001, leaving a surplus of Lit6s,ooo/. i:ot the Right lion. Ilentlemac said they were to add the MAUL gained by the reduction of the Fire per Cents. Allowing that there appeared his. 2.600,000:. ; but, at the stow time, he must say, that lie was totally at a loss to con• cities upon what pretence lie took that in. That was the amount of it according to his own statement ; but let them look at the amount f l.eveoue paid into the Exchequer, which was 51,200.0601. ; oat of that they paid 5:1,609,000/. lea% he hail ori,:.inal:y &tetra, betwixt one and two millions ut surplus only. The Right lion. Gentleman made some allusion to the I;sury Laws. and he certainly had not expected that lie would add that this was not the time to alter those absurd laws. In his opinion the prey se time fur such an alteration was when the mirket rate of interest was lower than the. legal rate. At whatever ratetlic Bank lent money, it could not affect the market rate of itp tercet long. He certainly was glad that they now lest money at 4 per cent. ; but it was quite obvious that the Rauh cueld not for any material period affect the rats of interest of utoney. He did ant know what to make of the case stated by the Right Hon Dottie- Tilt ST, pail 'et &Bettor Mn'gg 50004 more 'for an odite beans* the Bask dheoasted at 4 per seat. Mi..l. MARTIN regretted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had sot milled their ettestiel to the de ficiency of the Consolidated Fund, which he !bought was a subject of great Importance to the coanity. Mr. HUME said, that in 1815, the permanent an nual public debt was 45 million% since which time it bad become 49 millions. Instead of mincing this. the Chancellor of the Exchequer told them that next year the annual permanent charge should be 31 mil- Roam. The unfunded debt was also to be increased 5 millions. There was no prospect of a redaction as all. He could not in any way see that there was asp' surplus s but, on the contrary, that there was an la crosse of 5 millions at least. He should be glad is see how this could be reconciled with the Right Hon. I Gentleman's congratulation with respect to the state , in which his operations bad placed the country. 1 1 Mr. LUSHINGTON said, be thought his Right Hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer bad distinctly shewn pint we had a clear surplus revenue of between font and five millions. If the Hon. Member for Port.' arlington would make a fair deduction of the expendi ture from the Revenue, be would arrive at the exact , sum of 4,961.0001. which was all that was stated as the amount of the Sinking Fond. With respect to his Right lion. Friend's moment of the settlement of the East India Company's deist, be thought he was entitled to I take credit toialtneeli for arranging a deist, which klub existed for so mane years, and he might say that it had been done with fairness and even liberality.— lie repeated that, notwithstanding the cheer of the Honourable and Learned Member for Wioebrlsea (Mr. Brougham.) That Hon. and Learned Gentleman had not seen the papers, or he might think with him, that they were fully entitled to 1,300,000/. The Hon. Mem ber for Abingdon (Mr. Maberly) had complained of the inefficiency of Commissioners of Ineuiry, and thought Committers of that house preferable. He assured the lion. Gentlemas that he thought that one Commission of Inquiry was worth all the Committees that had ever sat. By their aid the present Govern ment had done more in thelast five years than all the other Governments that had preceded it for the last century.—(Hear, bear.) —Their retrenchments and improvements were particularly apparent is the Excise and Customs Departments. With regard to another part of the Hon. Member for Abingdon's speech, be assured him that since the passing of the Superannu ation Act, his Majesty's Government had had an eye to the necessity of appointing persons net too old for office.—(Near.) Mr. RICARDO and the CHANCILLOR of the RICOH. QUER mutually explained. Mr. CALCRAFT thought the Right Hon. Gent. forgot in taking credit to himself for 500,0001. to be paid by the Bast India Company, that. by ,receleing that, we cancelled an account of 1,800,0001. which we bad against them. He had, therefore, now 1,800,0001. less in assets than at the consmesteement of the year. But since that Company was to pay 500,0001.. that must be deducted from the 1,800,0001., leaviag 1.300,0001., which we bad been entitled to receive. but we should be so no longer. A mutual explanation betwixt the CHANCELLOII of the E'nuttctuna and Mr. CALCR•ET here took place across the table,. which was inaudible in the Gallery. ki j e: J. SMITH said, be bad always been friendly to a Sinking Food, and to the Idea of keepliirip the funds, because by that mode they would. End means to lower the rate of interest. There weeetwo ways of accomplishlog this desirable object—an honest and a dishouest ; and the former he hoped would always be preferred. The high price of the fonds advanced public credit both at home and abroad, and tberefoie condoced to that end. He could not think that the agricultural distress would continue long. There was a remedy for all these evils, and lie never knew an ar ticle of consumption to be cheap for a long time with out becoming suddenly exclusively dear. It was sot therefore fair to urge against the Sinking the distress of this portion of the empire. Mr. BROUGHAM said it was with regret he oh served the novelty that attended the Right Hon. Gen tleman's opening his budget on the present occasion. He alluded to the want of what was • general conco mitant of this operation, of some country gentlemen or other independent Member not connected with Go vernment to congratulate the Right Hon. Gentlemsa and the House upon his successfal exertions. That they had not this night ; for the Right Hon. Gentle man's great champion was the Hon. Secretary to the Treasury. Hers at all events they had made a saving; for they had turned their own trumpeters.—(A laugh.) If they were to believe this impartial Secretary, there never were such economical Ministers as those to whom he himself belonged. First of all they bad done mach by their fire years Committees. Next they bad done more than a century of Ministers in the way of saving the public money. All this was very well in the way of paneFytic ; but in his opinion it would have been better for the Hon. Secretary to have left that vague mode of dealing with the question, anti came to the pinch with his Hon. Friend the Member for Abingdon. He . should be glad to know what they had done. 'fie estimate of the Committee of I l 'inance, of 1817, was 25,100.0001. The Expenditure last year was 26,600,0001. nearly, instead of be-' ing less; and for this year there was only a reduction of 800,00/. Awn last year's estimate. But what were they to say of that reduction, when they knew that provisions had come down twenty-five, and lie might almost say fifty per cent.?—At this rate there ought to be five millions of a reduction, instead of less than one million. He could not, therefore. at all go along with the able and very impartial panegyric given by the Secretary of the Treasury to the First Lord and the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Ile thought his lion. Friend (Mr. Maberi.l) had distinctly poit.ted out the principle upon w:lieli redactions in the pudic ex penditure should be made. Ile maintained that nu superannuation allot ance should ever be given where peleons were appointed to other lucrative others. The observations of his lion. Friend on the subject of ap pointing persons ripe for superannnation to first ap pointments in public offices, were worthy of attention I he lion. Secretary had been so desirous of conflicting with lion. Members on his side of the house, that he was not content with' those who had spoken, but he must take notice of those who had n..t spokes!, but had Merely cheered. He for one certainly did cheer that'part of the Hon. Secretary's statement which re ferred to the East India Company's claim. His cheer, and that of his friends, went to say that it was a vest lion LltUsort of elite'. *ilea the claimants consented to .take Lado,ooOt. ow wf i. 000.41001. dsstasdrd. At least he bad a richt to ay that thsy would bays been 'many overpaid if they had got lOs. in the pound. The best way of supporting public credit was to 'pur sue a rigid and even parsimonious system of menu*. Mr. C. SMITH said a few words, which Witli In• audible Is the Haller?. The irst Resolution was then pal anti carried. On the second Resolution being pat. Mr. P. GRENPRLL begged to call tbp attention. the House to the "abject of the Debt of Austria to th country. The last time it was mentioned In that Hesse the Noble Marquess stated that he bad given up hopes of reasverin4 it. He believed it was at pre sent 17 millions, and although he did not look fo►- ward very sanguinely to the receipt of that money, be . hoped to the Noble Marquess would Dot give up all attempts to recover It. Why should not the build be sold t.—they would, so doubt,ls this enterprising country. lad purchasers, and say sum was better than nothing. The Marquess of LONDONDERRY issued the Hon. Member that the negotiation for a comprotni.s of the debt in question was now in progress and with out pledging himself to any thing he had no hesitation in saying that he had bepes of success. Whatever sboold - be the result, however, the House would be en- •owt It. lEViPORT said, he hoped that the liquids- I not be of the sante natant as the settlement of dig East India Company's Debt. On the Resolution that 200,0001. be granted fur the I Lottery, Mr. J. MARTIN opposed it, and called fur a division. Mr. HUME said, he hoped this, which had so long been a bone of contention, would be given up. After a few words from Mr. W. SMITH, the Commit- tee divided.... For the Resolution, 74—Against it, 31—Majority is favour of it, 40. The remaining Resolutions were then agreed to; the hoax resumed, and the tteport was ordered to be received to.morrow.—The Chairman obtained leave to sit again on Wedsesday. •LICII BILL. Mr. Secretary PEVA mo►ed the order of the der foe the House going into a Committee on the Alien Bill. Mr. HOBHOUSE opposed the Speaker's leaving the chair. In the early part of the Session he had hoped that Ministers did not intend to propose the continuance of this measure; and that ben was en couraged when he recollected who it was that bad succeeded to the office of Secretary of State for the Home Department. And when he beard that Mini& ten really had such au intention, be Inadvertently I bid out that whieb, upon reflection, be bad ft Se rious thought of carrying into effect. He alluded to his threat of moving perpetual adjournments. He had no vexatious opposition to o ff er to the Bill.-- 1 (Blesr..heari)—His only object was to discharge his duty. The more he looked at the question, the more be was satisfied that it would be considered with re soi Wenn to th Out principles of Liberty, of 'MA the BiR was gol roof an tension. It had , hosnver. been ja ,in the first instance, solely oat the fiatior if ilitritendif 'WOW ins. tipie smog mob. squid renewal of it, it had ben thought incessant to justify it on special.grounds ; but sow it was asked by the Right Hon. Secretary eatirely as a measure of confidence. It was true the Right Honourable Seen tary, when be had proposed the m , had alluded to certain Continental principles not yet eradicated; he had also attempted to beadle a little of the English Law. He bed quoted Magas Charts; bat he bad sot given the whole of Lord Coke's Commesteryupos it. The Right Hon. Secretary bad promised that the lower given by the Bill should be exercised with sats iteration, but there was no moderation in (Benet/nary power. The law would, in itself. be an abase. The Right Honourable Gentleman had also shaded to eh responsibility; bat he would appeal to the POW . of the Right Honorable Gentleman himself to sap whether there was such a thing as ministerial reign sibility. It was a mere non-eatity. If, indeed, a coalition of parties took place, a Minister might incur some danger; bat then bad Man no real sob stantial responsibility since the Revolution. With out meaning any thing pommel to the Right Honour. able Gentleman, and epeakiag of him only as • Mi nister of the Crown, be must say that he saw nothing about the principles of the Right Hos. &edemas to rectimmend a measure of this description to be adopted merely on his responsibility. He would not entrust so much power even to the great and illustrious Lord Chatham. He did not admit the evil which had been mentioned as a reason for passing the Bill; and it was incumbent on it advocates to sbew the existence of that evil. It had ben said also that the powers, given by this Bill bad never been abused; but this was • complete assumption. His illustrious predeces sor (Sir Samuel Routilly„) had proved many instances of its abuse. It had been asserted too that the peo ple acquiesced in the measure. This he denied ; but, U is were tens, this solitary reliance upon their opi nion came with • bad grace from the other side of the house. The question as to the right of the King to wall away Aliens by virtue of his prerogative, had been completely set at rest by a former speech of a Right Hon. Gentleman now the President of the Board of Control. That Right Hon. Gentleman bad stated an instance in the reign of Charles the Second, which completely negatived the right of prerogative. That King had not been able to send away a Frenchmaa who had seduced his favourite mistress, and appeared with her publicly at a Theatre. He bad b e en under ) the necessity of applyiag to the French King to re cal his subject. The lion. Member, after some other observatious against the Bill, declared his iotention to jive it every opposition. I Mr. ROBINSON supported the Bill. lie denied that it was inconsistent with the spirit of the Eng. lish Constitution; and introduced in subserviency to the wishes of foreign States. It was evident. from the tenour of our ancient laws, that the curtaineot of the general liberty of Alien was contemplated as a probable circunastaoce. Neither could our charac ter for hospitality be at all affected by the present Bill. No one could be called inhospitable who declined to afford shelter. whore his doing so would embroil him with hai neighbours. There was, however, neither object or desire to put the Bill in force against those , .. _.. 'who fled Inn thole new country. to atoll' pleilliblialifi! It was the policy of tbiaentitry to nsaletaia the telt.' doss of peace So bag as they amid bi nalatalsoi with Unser. Oar former wan wee (dna needed/1r ' by the petstinal feelings of the Sorireigas ; hat now' he fearedthere was a eeateit of pritaplee. It was i Neatest Iwtweca arbitrary power on the one basil (Cheers from the Oppealtion)--dad anqhslified ;m -ignon on the other.reheers from the Tenuity. Benches.) He regretted that there eras each a con: test; bit as It safer 'mutely did diet, our oilers mist, be to ay..id coming into collided with either of the contending parties. The power soli proposed was not (leaved fns say oppressive or otter dad tandn. The existence of a convulsion abroad, was a reason for our being jealous of the descry to which we might be exposed by the residence of foreigners In this ,min try; and, fur these reasons, be should certainly vote for the Bill. Mr. J. WILLIAMS (of Ligroin) said, that the interest reflection had led him ti . Olfer • this Bill his determined, but most conschtatiots.opposition. In the whole of the speech*s there was n• necessity undo oat for the measure. It was merely sargested tint some use might arise in which peen . and ashy might be disturbed by some individual. hat who . AI. individual was, or what the fries was,. tinier le the interruption might arise, did sot appear. learik..• a question affectiog the people of Eagle:W. AB eilifi ' had studied Mega& Charts AWN . tbSO4bgglini( MO : 4itt pewee to stin4 an • A fee t of. .010 - nnerrYA•••. -' '- NI% Aliens could be punished crimes whirls were puF 411 P. aishable in Englishmen. Tit danger which justified' ouch a meanin wes no I;nerNip existence. Mr. Earkeesee drew a dagger when openting on this very question, and- Ma object wee to show the horrors and , co:sequence of not passiag tin Bill.. The peewit I state of peace bore an auslogy to the time when Ire. Barks was an advaden, for the WO. Hp was deal- f. ens of stating one sew isaridelt-seaus of liberal i mind could say the provisions 6rlb.„ill fliftbe to be . I enforced. If the cause of time Greeks abaskk fail, and 1 that wretched people be forced to leave thekcountry for the pulriose of throwiag themselves on inr hog-. pliable s h ores, and in England endeavour to eeglin their lost country, weald the Oeveratient drive 'them back to tare their threats to the knives and poipards of the barbarost Turks ? . Could. it in that ease be fairly argued teat thy were endeayourlng to injure this country with our illy the Turk,. Sod that the De fender of the Faith wee hostile to tinfrieetls of the Faith? He was convinced that did aenrament of this country way sot reliant discretionary power s on the mere sappoeidos that it would not be abased, sad be gave his assest to the notion of hi. Honourable Friend. : Mr. H. BURNEY opposed ate Bill. , .. The house then divided—For the Committee 142 7 — Against It, 60—Majority for the Bill. VS. The house then wen into t i l i s i ; d rininto. ' On oar analogies to the (I ,;inefeetod the Mar quest of Lodi:toxin:tar °midi a menus. made by Mr. DINUAIIf torment creel* Tin Senn Marquess urged the Cestalittee I. go on; es thane* lily one blank to fill up. . Mr. P. MOORE eeasi the OW el ssisit .. . 4 471 portages, aad wished the 'to go tel lo t diet* by clause, catego'rically." aa t* ~144 sate* passed. The Committee then diAr 'si..—/iitr repining pregvess 37—Against it, 14.1—Majority. 107., A second division d on the questing of lillisg up the blank with two years : For two years, 121—Against those words, 55-41a jority, 70. On our re-admission to the gallery, the Committee were diecessiog an amendment proposed• by kr. Brougham, to Improve the preamble of the Hill. After some conversation, the amendment was negatived with out a division. The house then resumed, and the Re port was ordered to be received on Friday. Mr. WESTERN gave notice that be should Men. on W e d nes d a y. o o re rn ; a esolutions on the State :Iran Country and the Currency, s i!tis a view to have tide same printed for the use of the Members.—The hoses adjourned at two o'clock. LAIPI.VTELLIGENCIL COURT OF KING'S BENCK.-JULY I. JAYSS V. DODD. The Plaintiff sought to recover back 12/. paid for a violoncello which did not turn out to be a Cremona as described. The witnesses for the plaintiff swore they believed it was a German instrument. Those for the defendant said it was an Italian instrument, not made at Cremona, but at Florence. AU allowed it to be a good instrument, and the Jury band a verdict for the defendant. THIL ICING V. ILVII. This was an indictment against the defendant for a libel on an attorney of this Court, containing g • I dander of his character, calling him a miscreant, a petty fogger, be. kc. The publication of the libel was clearly proved. The defendant. in a long addresa to the Jury, is wlach be was repeatedly checked by the Court for ir regularity, in repeating his attacks on the proven ' tor's character. cundacted his own defence. The Jury, under the Learned Judge's directions, immediately found him guilty. $ L COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, JULY 1. 'SRNS/ . COLIMAN. Mr. Serjeant Lens stated that this was an action of trespass, brought against the defendant for having put several sacks of potatoes on ground belonging to the plaintiff, in Covent Barden market, for n hick be paid rent to bi . Prince and Lowden, andertenauts ve the Duke of Bedford. Having proved the plaintiff's tenancy and the pass. be closed his case. Mr. Serjeant Hom.oce, for the defendant, attempted to shew that the ground in question did not belong ex clusively to the plaintiff, but that any person, who paid toll to Prince and Lowden, might use it. For this purpose he called Mr. Prince; but Lord Chief Justice DALLAS held that Mr. Prince was, in this case, interested to prove the defence, as it would materially increase his profits; he was, therefore, in terested in the event lathe snit. Mr. Besjeast klut.t.oca tendered a bill of exceptions to the Chief Justice's opinion on Mr. Prince's inad missibily u a witness.... Evidence was theit given, to thew that when the plaintiff did not tuella ground, 4 r - 1 4 t r j _ , ~ t liti i , 'i i - I , _. .