The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1803-02-24 00:00:00

• Pli 4E -• nom • s. .-t L . "Pr _. , r . difference of every land at *space twe periods of time wheh each received his peovision, would fully account for the debts of his Royal Highness. If after that he considered how long the Prince had lived in obscurity., neatly or : quite eight years, he must admit that t wa( *thee cot* t with the honour or interest 6f the' coluitryt lie Prised satraitillipiiiildinswasng s t hir tilleldeior due tO his tank and dignity shoal . ti d: con tany ; RA l l7P i nlLßAblicE. 3 aide• *at the ef the Eschewer," 'nit dr Xiop. I ember Who had followed him, bad stated very ftirly the Crof the ,proposed measu, It was well to the House, that his Ro jasHigbiess had lived a long time in obscurity, neither befteing his tank, nor the honour of the country. He - thought that the. Prince's dignity ought to be supported. and that what had,been proposed vas not too much; be would rather say too He thought it would be highly hotioural - to the country, that the Prince shoal be entirety 'ibertted from all his em barrassmenu, and receive his income clear of every incturibrance. Mr. HARRISON, in a very animated speech, said, it was his opinion, that the diminution of Ins Royal Highness's income for eight years fully en titled him to the good.eill of the House. After that, he • was certain that they would not suffer him to remain in retirement for four years longer. The House ought to concur in some measures for en abling his Royal Highness to reassume that splen dor of which he ti...lo_en so long deprived; and he would sat, that the House, in doing it, did no more thar. s n it 1 justice. It was no more than what .the Country erred his Royal Hig hness; and it was the wish of the 1-Inn. Member toave it understood, that his lioyal Highness could not stand forward as bringing a burthen upon the public, when it was commuted.with the money due to the Prince from the revenue of the Duchy of Cornwall during his Ini.-Arity, and which was applied to the use of the Civil List, and other public and general pureoses. It was not common candour to represent his Royal Highness ns bringing burdens upon the public, t' e pu'b'ic had, for years, been benefitted by his income. That income had been withheld, until the Prince had been obliged to seek after it by a legal prosecution, which threatened to create ill blood between the Royal h . ather and his eldest son ; rather than it should, he would vote ten times the sum. He must saw it was cruel, harsh, and unjust that a sum should be withheld from the Prince which would make him comfortable, and enable him to rise to that splendor which was best suited to his rank and dignity. The Hen. Member said he could not bear to see the Prince lost in retire ment, whilst, in every corm.: of the nation, all ranks were striving who should be foremost in gaiety and splendor. He thought the motion ought to be followed up by an as to put the Prince in full pos session of the income which.lie enjoyed-in 1795. Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that when the question was agitated in the last Parliament, he felt highly disposed to relieve His Royal Highness from that inconvenience, which, in his opinion, he had too long laboured under. He could perfeetly well see through, and develope the feelings of the Prince on the occasion of the present question be ing brought before the House, which were truly ho tearable. lie wished to be extricated from his incum brances, through his own means ; out of his own pri vate property, and without casting any new burthen upon the public. His Royal Highness also wished to avoid a painful discussion between him and his Royal Frlier, which any further prosecution of his cl liens could not fail to being forward. Those claims to-re ftr the receipts of the revenue of the Duchy of C.,rnwall, which ought to have been paid to the Prince upon his coming of age, but which, during his minority, had been applied for the public service. It was not to the least difficult, he said, to see into the motive which induced his Majesty to chuse the present moment to discuss this subject. It was int possll)le that the l ot !ion of right could be his Ma 7's objeft ;. that was a transaction which, as had truly stated, lay between the Prince of Wales ; and the public. The true niotiee of his Majesty, for beinOtg et the eIK-stinn at the present period, was. that he thought, at the moment when the war was over, it would not be unreasonable to call upon the Howe to takethe Prince'ssituation into consideration. since 1795, his Royal Highness had, out of his private icome, paid 600,0001. of his debts ; and having, during . so many years, supported so considerable a diminution of his income, his Majesty thought that the time was come, in which Parliainent might relieve the Prince from so great a pressure. He had not the smallest doubt, but that the public would view tho subject in exaftly the same light as his Majesty had done. It seemed to the Honour able Member that, to keep his Royal Higlincss any longer under such a load, would mark an un kindness of feeling in the country towards the Prince, which, he was fully persuaded, did not ex ist. If his Royal Highness had involved himself in debt. ft was during those scenes of youth, in which thoughtlessness was inherent to—nay, al most inseparable from mankind; and he had done sufficient penance, by being, during eight years of the best part of his Manhood, deprived of that splen dour which was his due. It was time'now, that the House should restore him to that condition in which it wished to behold him. It would bring no burthen upon the public. The whole of the revenue of the Duchy of Cornwall during the Prince's mino rity was earned into the Civil List ; and therefore striuly formed an account between the Prince and the public. And, as his Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had clearly stated, that if the present allowance was made, he would drqp the prosecution of his claim; the allowance was no burthen on the public, but only a. payinent of the debt wbieh it justly owed to the Prince. He thought the only • question was, whether they wished to restore his Royal Highness to his proper rank and splendour, or leave him under those re strairtr which, be VMS • well assured, most have been no less irksome to the public to viitness, than to the Prince to - feel. The House, in the present case, would be doing their duty by their constituents, if they exercised their discretion according to their. feelings. ]For his part ! he should most-cordially give his support to the mouen, not only from his wish to sre ttis.Royal:}Pghness restored to his dignity, but because he thought it would he for the if aity of the crlmtry, ataj b duty as well m so to do. Mr. .StiEßlDAN , said, that be • was ly . ready 40 atiptir that the proposition bet e l -t ete House apecared to have hem received with &et ;____.---' arorw"." ~..--- • • • Ilgetatity sr.& ee.rdielity wli;e2t refleged the tughtst beitour on, it. He should not, after what had been said on the- sub;e6t. have troubled the Holt loith a *ford, if Istaid oat think that the le ingot.. f or njui *fel s of the measure had not stidielenay 1 4111 that his 'Meal High lams, far frVeitegios• . iffry btrethen open the ptthlic, came for hts ownvightu The Prince, hail appealed in a proper, qualified manner, for certain sums due to, and „vittklibeld front hint: The House hid entered into a large iliiCtission Colkerning the legal - shape in which the claim could betriealf and-the question was sus pended, in erder that the House might be informed that there was no other means of keeping back the prosecution of. it, than the measure which. was now proposed. This proposition, therefore, was brought • forward, not in the shape of a' compromise, but merely as the result of what the Chancellor of this Exchequer thought to be his duty, and for the honor of the country. Some gentlemen had started at the word " compromise ;"• for his part, he sass not so squeamish ; he saw nothing amiss in the word. If the prosecution of ale suit was not eor.:prornised, it must, of course, proceed, ' and might have very disagreeable convtinences. On the one side it might• be said, that the. Prince's friends brought forward this claim to the revenue of the Duchy .of Cornwall, for the sole ptirpose of causing the Parliament to interfere, and pay off his ' debts ; e contra, the Prince's friends Might assert, that he wits kept out of his just claims. His Royal Highness had clearly agreed to abandon these claims ; and he wished to have it impressed on the mind of the Hoese, that that was the precise si tuation in which he understood the P: ince to stand. It was true, that His Royal Highness had been during eight years in a vei - y disagreeable preitica, men: ; but that the hardship vf it had been foreeen at the time, and was not altogether attributable to that I louse. They had not thrown any emharrass oients in the way of the Prince, but cadeavoured to afi'ord a temporary relief ; and the only qaeseon row was, whether they would relieve him from them entirely ? The lion. Member then proceeded (in his peculiar mode of irony) to advert to the un certainty of the end of the prosecution of the Prince's claim, in case it should be proceeded in. He said, that he had heard of a Chancery suit, which a late Lord Chancellor had put into his pocket, and kept it there eight years, in order to determine the mode in which it should be proceeded upon ; the present prosecution rniczht, for aught he knew, share the same fate, as the Gentlemen of the long robe were known to be extremely tena nacious of a gnod thing. (Loud laugh). The Ho nourable Member said, that he hoped the respect which the Right lion. Mover of the present ques tion had for the sense of the House, as well as for the Prince's honour, would induce him to bring for ward a clear and full statement of what was the Prince's real situation, and not let the House pre sume that lie was to have a clear establishment, when de facto that was not the case. One reason for his pressing this circumstance was, that when, in 1797, the Prince's debt was calculated, it was after wards found to exceed the calculation by seve ral thousand pofinds. In order to do away this excess, it was proposed and acceded to, that a deduaion of ten per ccntam upon the debt should be made. The Prince, whose lioacur could not bear the slightest stain, thought, and very justly too, that this deduaion turned the transa&icn into a composition with his creditors, which it certainly did ; as every abatement which a debtor makes front the amount of his creditor's demand, makes it a composition instead of a payment in full The Prince was unwilling, at that time, to trouble, the House any further; but commissioned the Hon. Member to desire, that the House would addano ther year to the time, for which his private revenue was to be withheld for the payment of his debt. He therefore submitted to the House, that, as this ad dition was for the purpose of satisfying the Prince's conscience, and clearing his honour from this de dußion from his creditors demands, it should be now provided for, so that nothing might put off the time when his Royal Highness was to recover the grandeur due to his rank.- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought himself entitled to claim their attention again for a few moments, in consequence of the al lusions that had been made to him. The Prince, it was said, felt himself under an obligation to make good the dedudion made to his creditors. The Hon. Gent. (Mr. Sheridan), it was true, did not assent that he was; on the present occasion, authorised by his Royal Highness to make any Such declaration, but he was desirous that the House should under stand the nature of the arrangement made for the payment of the debts. A Rt. Hon. Friend of his . (Mr. Pitt) had, upon a round calculation, though after very diligent enquiry, stated in the year 1795, the amount of the Prince of Wales's debts to be 620,0(X1. but to exclude the possibility of leaving any outstanding demands. caused another sum to be ready ft.: the discharg e f such as might not have been brought forward. Tie consequence of these dispositions was, that tin re was no debt, whose sal ficiencv and validity had b.!ea admitted, left unsa tisfied 'from any deficiency of funds. He was ready to admit, however, that notwithstanding every pre caution and investigation, the aggregate of the debts considerably exceeded the sum of 690,000/. at which they had been estimated. The Commis sioners had a power under the a& of paying in Debentures, at 5 per Cent. Some of the demands were perfedly fair, and therefore fully admitted ; but from others such parts were decluded as ap peared to be fraudulent or very exorbitant. It must be obvious to every Gentleman, that amongst these which seemed to the Commissioners (of winch he himself had been one) to be fraudulent, there were some of such a nature , as could not be impeded to be publicly broughtiforward. Gentlemen would also recollect, that under the .circumstances of his Royal Highness at that time, great excess from an ordinary demand had arisen from the, uncer tainty of payment, or the remoteness of time when it should be made. That was ineVitably, he be lieved, the case in all transaktions of tha t nature. The CoMmiseioners, therefore, *064. them selves justified • in availing 'theinselves of the poen they had ender the Adt, and:to make pro. portienate deduaions, with the exception tof sala ries, money lent, and rents. When the dedadtions . were mide, they gave debentures,' of 100- each, for the whole of tbeTernainins debt anSI, ler cent. interest, dr Of flolfeaoh, beams es interott of Bt. Per Ont. - The Option of that of timierecroars. war to takethe sat. &beauties at AL:per . CllO, • interest, and they in senora proposed them at remqte Pe- ~'~,~:. Tr : ekes, ha hopes that feu: . might tale place in the interval, neon which event, they expected them to , , He therefore, for ' eorinseee°3couldnsickirtebtlYcii:nictileiveek h v o a w hie. his Royal Highness could think himself. boded in honour to make corn pemeition for losses which the creditors had voluntarily incurred ? As to the resumption of the state and establishment of the Prince, it was not to be expected that it should take place immediately, and the delay certainly arose from honourable causes, which gave his Royal High ness an additional claim on the respect and at tention of that House. It was something, however, that if the public could not have the gratification of i observing the Heir Apparent resume at once all the splendour suited to his high rank, the present mea sure would at least accelerate it by three years and a half sooner than it would otherwise take place. In addition to this, it was to be considered that its im mediate effect would be to administer, in a great degree, in the meantime, to the ease and comfort of that Royal Personage. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Sheridan) misunderstood him in supposing that he meant to say that any disgrace was to be implied in a compromise, supposing any compromise to have taken place. What he meant to say was, -that he felt the more satisfaction in this measure, inasmuch as it would prevent a litigation which every one must be extremely desirous to avoid. If the subjed 4 the Cornish revenues had never been agitated or mentioned, he should, neverthelces, have thought it his duty to make at this time precisely the same f toyosition, but it was no small recommendation to it tnat it would he attended with the effect already alluded to. I: wa. said by Mr. Sheridan, that had the investigation taken piece, the e ff ect of it would he, that the Prince might claim as a right what was now proposed to be granted him as a favour. He , veti unwilline e , and in fad, would abstain from going into that subject r let it suflice to say, that even on the statement of his Right Hon. Friend (the Soli- citur-General) the right cf the Prince was not ad- , mined to the extent laid down by Mr. Sheridan, who represented that there would be a very considerable sum indeed due from the arrears of the revenues. What he understood to be admitted was, that his Royal Highness, on coming of age, would be en `titled to an account of the arrears, and not to any very considerable balance. It had further been stated, that upon the nature of this right all the great . law authorities were united in opinion. For himself, he must confess that he had not the pre sumption to offer any thing like an opinion, but having very frequently had occasion to converse upon the subja, he did nut find that there was so. entire an union in the sentiments of those respeetable authorities, though the preponderance was certainly in fave et- of the Prince. Being, however, upon the sub jed, he should be excused for a moment. in going a little farther into it. Supposing the ceese to be gained, he would ask, how much the nearer* his Royal Highneis would be in r aining any thing by it? ' In what manner could ludgment be executed ? Where was the lien which would attach upon any crown property? Every one knew there could be none. The only redress, after all, would be, to come to Par liament, which, perhaps, would on such an occasion, before they defrayed it, be induced to enquire whe ther he had any fund of his own for the discharge of the demand ? That must again be produCtive of still farther enquiry into the grounds of former ap plications ; and it would be in the end necessary to make out accounts on all sides between his Majesty and the Prince, and between the Prince and the pub lie. He would, however, dwell no longer on this topic, as his Royal Highness had shewn the teluel ante he had to recur to such proceedings, by the magnanimous message delivered to the House on the present evening. He had already observed, that no claim, the validity of which had been admitted, which had been refused for want of the necessary funds since the year l79s—there could have been I no legitimate debt contrated, and therefore his Royal Highness could not be made liable for any. Mr. SHERIDAN rejoiced that thoug h he had no authority from his Royal Highness in what he I said, yet he had been authorized by him to make a statement to the effect he before alluded to on a former occasion. It had scarcely been denied that a compulsory deduction of 101. per cent. had been ' made upon the creditors in general. The Right Hon. Gentleman indeed asserted, and with credit for it too, that no deduction bad been made upon the household. True, there would have been no dedudion if they had been made in money ; but they were paid in debentures, which were at a dis count of perhaps 201. per cent. The Right Hon. Gentleman acknowledged, that with the accession of income, the Prince, in order to justify the ho nourable and just demands upon him, may not be able to resume his establishments for a considerable .time, perhaps for a year or two. This was a strange way of expressing satisfadion at the time, that all profess to feel how much interest the country takes in seeing his Royal Highness speedily appear in all the state and magnificence suitable to his exalted station. Having the same wishes himself in com mon with other Gentlemen, he must confess that he felt himself exceedingly disappointed ; for he certainly expeded that Parliament would resped those high feelings of justice which the Minister himself had allowed to have done his Royal High ness so much honour, and to have given him addi tional claims to the attention of the House. Great merit was assumed from the circumstance, that it would accelerate the resumption of the establish ments in three years and a half. To show the value ofthis boast, he would suppose that this pro position never had been made at all, and that.in the year 1806, the Minister should come forward and tell the House—" All is now paid out of the income -which was originally - intended for t'he Prince, hid he not been in debt at the time ; but, notwithstanding this,' it will be impossible for him, on account of some honourable demands, whether foreign or domestic, to resume that state suited to his di nity for a considerable time." He would ask, whether the House would bear such a lengthened restraint, or whether there would be any *hesitation in furnishing him with the necessary means of immediately appearing in all the splendor of his station ? He should forbear to state all that he might do upon the present occasion, but must add, that. he wished the whole to be done as speedily as possible, in order that the public , horns and wishes niay be no longer disappointed, from sine*• plained motives, however honourable they • may be. The CHANCELLOR of -the EXCHEQUER explained, that what he meant by honourable, had ro reference whatever to the nature of the debts, but to the motives of his Royal Highness himself, "'WT. , . . ' 'rig the claims ef justice to ma.ani fi tence isit*tem yptendour. He mast repeat, that he did not ' any of the demands, disallowed by the Com missioners, were entitled to any claim upon . the hci= nour of the Prince. As to the losses sustained by those who had been paid in debentures, they NM* wholly' to be asciibed to the holders negotiating them. Had they retained them in their own hands. so far from being sufferers, they would have got them regularly paid, when due, at the proper of fice ; and might, even on many occasions; hive dig- • posed of them at a premium. Mr. FOX felt himself bound to otter some ob- . servations on the present occasion , on account of the part he took in the discussions, in a similar subj et in the year 1795, which was the more strongly iin pressed upon him, as he did not remember ever having taken any part more repugnant to his feel ing.; and contrary to his opinion. Those who were present at that time, and the Right Holz. Gentle tleman opposite to him in particular, (the Chancel lor of the Exchequer) may remember that he was tho first who proposed a reduCtion to be made from his Royal Highness's income in preference to the fund which it was then in agitation to institute for ' the gradual liquidation of the debts. He did so upon the ground of his disapprobation of the com munications, which he could not but think were ins , properly made on that- as well as on the present occasion. He certainly should not have advised the Prince to have adopted any such measure, but to .have left the whole to the discretion and the liberality of Parliament.. The House in the year 1797, had come to no determinate opinion, whether the lividation should be made by means of a fund or a reduCtion, until the Prince s message clone down, expressing a preference for the latter mode, and that produced an immediate decision, till the debts of the year [797 were clearly extinguished by the A& of Parliament itself, and it was now put to the feelings of the House, whether, after the Prince had patiently submitted to these restriCtious for eight yeah, they would continue to impose the restraint upon him for a longer period ? tracioubt edly, were a man to argue against that as a simple proposition, there was nothing which could b:.: con sidered more rigorous and austere. But if such great progress had already been made in the extinc tion of the debt, and that it was now thought 'necessary on many accounts to resume that splen dour, and those establishments suitable to the rank and dignity of Heir Apparent of these realms ; surely it could not be deemed too much to go a little beyond what was now propo sed, and make such further addition to his income as would enable him to resume his rank with im mediate ease, and without the «ell-grounded appre hension of future embarrassments. He gave-ehe Minister full credit for his assertion, and made no thubt hut that he would have submitted the present proposition, if there had been no question whatever relative to the arrears of the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall. He was willing also to take him on his own statement; and go no farther than to admit that the Prince of Wales, on his coming of age, was entitled to an Account of the arrears of the reve nues. But he contended, that if these arrears amounted to a considerable sum, that alone *as a very good reason why an account should be instituted into it. The argtlment advanced by the Right Hon. Gentleman, that 'no lien attached upon which an execution could take effeta, sop posing the Prince to be successful, was indeed in controvertible, bet it shewed at the same rime the nocessity of a parliamentary interference. Nothing more clearly exposed the contemptible situation of crown property in this country than the very dr own tames, that though a right be established, there were no legal means of procuring any redress. The Minister expressed great satisfaction in the as surance, that by adopting the present measure the claims upon the concerns of the Duchy of Cornwall were sure to be abandoned ; and certainly they must all confess themselves to be under the greatest obli gations to the Prince for his forbearance, if by that he had prevented the adjustment, or rather agita tion of the different accounts between him and the Crown, and between him and the public. Thu present then, from all that he had hitherto heard, was to be taken as an independent question. abstracted from all other considerations. On a former occasion he knew there were Gentlemen, for some of wilt= he always had a very high respect, who thought, that, considering the state of the finances of the country, and that we were deeply involved in war, the sum of one hundred and twenty-five thousand pounds per ann. was rathetr too much to be granted to his Royal Highness's revenue. I was, however, of a very different opinion. I could not but observe, that in all other accounts of transactions with the Government, great, very great allowance was made for the increasing difference in the value of money. The Civil List •itself forded a strong exemplification of it. But it was in 'vain that 1 ever attempted to inquire; as the affairs of the Prince of Wales were always to be considered as an exception. In the case of his Royal Highness Ithink that very great allowance should be made. 1 think the same with respeCt to all the other branches of the Royal Family, and in that of His Majesty him self. It would, in his judgment, be much more respectful and satisfaCtory to the Sovereign; and more advaatageoul to thepub!ic, if a proper Allow ance was made at once for the difference in the vaha of money, than to, be applying every finer or five years to that House, for the discharge ef arrears which always wore very ungracious appearthtces. At the same that the Right Hon. Ge.ntlmaii just. opposite to him admitted that the Prince could not resurhe his establishment imniediatellt; he alo in formed the House, that all his English debts had been already paid. But • was he- not - kware that there may be foreign debts also which had an equal claim upon the honour of that high Personage. He also said that the creditors had the option of taking one hundred pound debentures at three per cent. he ninety at five . per cent. ated that they did not Choose the font*. That may be very true, but the reason was also very plain, viz, that the former were the Waist. A debenture could not be any better than its value—it was worth no more than what it would buy, or what it would tell for 4 and therefore it was a delusion to savthat hook debts, salaries, Sto. were paid in full, wh at they were compelled to take debentures at a discount. He was not prepared to say, that these claims, for. which the Prince considered himself pledged, were debts of honour; but he was prepared to say, that be knew nothing of the matter. The Prince, hims:lf, vrasalone , the is true,hepers , said who Mr. Fux wascapabl: , , that tojudg fa e n o , e t them. E lt