The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-03-06 00:00:00

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N 0.3 .., , , • t .-J t t,.l 11 34 , a , i , . 1 A. .1 .rwIDAY, mAirIICH 6, 1818. ~• • rRIGE 7D • ...1 . . __ _ - 777 - :444 " rag OROS "rid _nrr_raal I* OK of assiar dial al Os • -. ' : • LAS r. WEDNESDAY. 4,100 Tithe% were Dr *wo o • YET ALL • $ • Prises d. . ..491.091) AEE .NOW IN TH . II WHKEL. • 4 . o6 ; a Wfsb F 5 ether Owlish orr X 3.11410. Al.OOO. "CM. ace, BISH, i b . Contest:tor, sincerely thewkS 7 Ire Pets* few their repreerder;ed paeoessoose elnerly ihreste obis Lettere. The lirso-dsaunt Mark. Nn. 69115, eesitle4 se FAGr pe,04.4 , •.•, wow rhowed hit NISH, in Two gearless. Ton Eighoho, ow/ Vow Sixteenths. w o revershoily Noweets hoorowiloosele to 'woke frees nay Wine-sestiwet twee plane. their respedke . peapneohoss 4 the New Pipes d Pert..[ the Amaral quality ose the kiegiolowi: which RUN v 01 pay fee mg demand; eh. has else the pleasure o•ameowee thwl he wild Ned :hared ow kw thin 14 of the Coopiall Prizos4nowe lest Wedeerday. TEE roLLowtsc; IS TIIR MATCHLESS STATE OM TN* WHEEL: 9 Prises of 'MAO I r4leholother Curleds Of ,e 5.1104. /MG. inob. Ac. At. A rijiaritislibto not the • • PI PFA OF PORT. Poi a lWi Dem rerodoalunk. • ',Aso Tiekswerost be- All the Copia& easy lee raw.: As the d, ./ Itroo rsi verizoltsnighset the Chuttry. al9ll erweelebir elealli is early he thelot epplieuelus wtolhot oretirry 4 aril vessels II RhODtes. Re. Cosnohlll. erid 12.diodpois, Loader. 1 1 , the bps cesparg. pappgass Three Prises of 491.0119. DISH &lel than All g awl rso to sell All the Three Prises wi *MOO ie the present Iggy. thing of tsem until the triat of Mr. Hobe. The Jery by *hick he was acquitted looked, probably, ors those productions with theses, disgust that was felt towards Them hs that Howie ; bet km Ow.' It 00 04 not be difficult to conjesterelhe open whlits they had brought In tire* v ovAf The LORD CHANCELLOR, in a low toms of .peeped the Noble Earl to state them. ' Earl GROSVENOR said; be had' no objection.—:- The Jury prisbably saw that the preilltetiort ere- mated in a political Ifeelisig.4-qllear, Ateart)--Tbey recollected that similar pelitseations tail 'at tree period of their flees received the ehdelthee of some Noble Lords of that Snook ' if Mr. Hose should &NMI?' *WM' be the bends of Ministeis.• Anotbsttliiblfe VON slats be assigned. The Jeri' kid heti*** iamb Mt their lives of the importseqrstf IsieleltilWiOisittelliesi of the offending parties, Gat *by WO la this illtllNtW end they these* the - 11'4114mi Itai4;iii. shitldsll Mejeaty's ilholesers, bad ositlioll464 *mill: formed that * t Phials, eirelay,' Where Chi WSW- Crates took needle pains to disco'', the divtVilietomisalf blasphemous tracts,: the Vlllr'llwrito,illiti 3 Oateeltill was the servant of a very 'loyal retoo l Whose pat ties were known to accord wish those 'nf the N• 1101 Viscount on the other side. 'fie could bring pen.. ten thousand times more respectable then Spies mod Informers, to prove that Oliver and Misses *Pre eft the bottom of the conspiracy. Would the 'Noble Lord deny that Bacon was arquainted wfith Offswess liscon who was concerned in that teansictlar fat which the unfortunate persons suffered at Deity NA AR inclination to &potions was muesMted bribe% in power. Alarm was ezeitert, and thee we/4'MM that it was not from the proceedings of thdlistloll hot of the poor cleaves of the People, that dagger 'mewl* apprehended. But when in former instances thtHaildhls Corpus Act was suspended, it was not in comet qwence of the proceedings of poor people, bet etrou sons of the greatest consequence. A Noble FAA had alluded on a foe mer night to the French Revelation. for the purpose of showing the miseries which ties lower orders might bring epon a country ; bet did the Noble Earl mean to say that there were no great persons concerned in the French Revelation ? Did be mean to deny that the Doke of Orleans *eat concerned in it ? The French Revelation was net tit he attributed to the violence and power of the %woe classes, but to the weakness of a corrupt eystim Of Government.—(Hear, heir !)—Secb world ever he the case when oppression compelled society' to VP• dress itself. There was not a despotic Gotranment in Germany which trampled on the little Ciieet-of Sae.- Weimar, that would not one day or Oise, If the same system was persevered In, share 'the waste fate. They might latter themselves that the dae-ster of liberty eat set for Ire., bet they'lweied fiesd It re-mwerat owe 1110/14 t.R te.lt 141.; 2li, ** Thiarei thou yen sanguine closed. Malted by shy hnistb, has eiseach'il the orb d day t To-otormw be repair+ she golden flood. Alai warms the melons with redoubled my." After some further observations, in which hecenedred Ministers for keeping op to large a military was, blishment in the present circumstances of the coin try, the Noble Lord concluded by staling, that no case being mode out to support a Bill of indemnity, he should vote for the motion of his Noble Friend. forage& Ue had taken greet pains not Only to jos. illy the employment of such persons by the Govern ment, bet to induce *their Lordships to look upon them with a degree of respect, which he wee conk. dent their minds were ill 'prepared for. Though he admitted that much might he said to countenance the employment of Spies and informers, in cases of urgent 'timothy and danger ; and though Me wit pee ps to 'beer each topics insisted on by the Noble Lord open the present occasion, be did not expect that be would have thought it expedient tontterk the laws of the eoentry. The depositions of Informers eboeltl be sifted to the bottom ; the testimony of any 0.0 who came forward with a view to reward should be received grove sails, bneese the circum stance et its connected with such a view ren dered k **asperity of a sespicioes eaters , . Such per tains Vow promoted ha Courts of law, bet they were not eipooeflede.ilioer. beer !)—The Noble Lord woe Sir from beteg -happy se somber sub/vet-10 thevodip m ea derived from sahib metier their depositions were ' 1 *1 • re mei on oath. the cub which was so mode oat was not to he considered as merely an ezparte case. But bow slid their hardships know that the depositions were so given ?—from the statements of Ministers, which statements were in themselves ex•parte. lie ressem. bered to have heard the same ergement in 1801, bet could 'sever bring his mind to regard it as a satisfaco tory answer to the charge. Kress supposing that all the depositions were taken oh oath, why did they not hear the depositions on the other side upon oath also? Was not the fact of their refusing to hear both sides, in itself an es-parte proceeding.—[fear, hear, hear!]—lt was with much pleases, that be gave his support to the motion of his Noble Frieud, having always entertained bat one opinion on (be subject, which was decidedly hostile to the measures of last year in every shape. Acting up on ibis eoliviction, he should enter his solemn pro. test against the present Bill, because it was connect. ed with the whole of those [rowdies, which struck so deeply at the freedom of the Constitution:— Their Lordships were well aware of the value of that Constitution, and could not be ignorant of the dangers resulting from the establishment of a bingle bad pre. cedent. This preceJent would be brought forward in future times, when it might be applied to the worst of purposes. Far what was the precedent ? an unnecessary Suspension of the ilsbonig Corpus Act ; and as in nipety.nine cases out of a hundred, the favourite ground of justification was authority, the transactions of the present day would not he witti• net their dangers to posterity. lie was far from - disputing the general propriety of ouspendiwg the Habeas Corpus Act, when circumstances required and jestified it—bet the use to whieh‘he was allud ing *as not of that description, and it was imposed __ THE POUR PIPES OF PORT. rrilE &Mors the Ti. Quarters, Two Eighths, sa* net Sioeseislo, of No. 6.963. heist ebe ling-draw • *Elk kW Mahe = iv, the 41h of M &reit, awl shared by 13 ore crepolsfollt rriArz e l to order iessestliotely. from an, 116ine•iseselows sr is Wier is the Uoiteil intilsol that if*" mop • oispeetively per. *e Mow Port Wuie that ass M sbeinid is Hie followisig Proportioor : Forotw6 sof tlw Qiennets-.01•• Pipe of Wise, Z., raft of floe Eightlw-Half x Pipe of Wine, Yorrikeh of the Simon h.—Oli asoeter of a Pipe of Wine, T..BlaH teal pay for the ottee weans* with ever. el = *lobestorodioffilie aie vits er wi s s L oge. ossesyssat of the Witte to toe erspeed IMPERUL PdßcumENr NOUSE OF LORDS. MA ice 5. Atha's'''. was brook* (roadie Comenem. remelting a copy of the Repot of the lords relative in the Poor Laws. Anolier Miaow came from the Comma% reviewing a copy or the Repent of the Secret committee. Roth applications, awarding le the weal form, were ana • plied wide. The Lot of LAI Dl RDA LE moved far various popes re. klieg to the value of gold aisd silver, in reference 10 the several coinages in those metals. and to tee alloys to which they were liable,—The swim was agreed to. I JAM CHAPI4IIIIB. The Marquis of LA r4ISINM PI I.; moved that the second read ing of the Jail Chaplains Bill, which stolid for to-day. should. 4or reams of which the Hashe we oalleiently apprised, be 'PeCrto the day three mooths. olieso ens agreed to. ' THE MAW' 111 OF RV ,ASTINOS. The LORD CHANCIiLLOR read a letter whit* he had peeked fear the blerquis of dated Septcwilwv . , Ilil7. Cfeas:apore. acknoalediag is terms of ordeal sinwitede the which he had received in the Thanks of than How. for Ala twalhectta theetigfo. .fed Aantelvalos of es N pool war. and czpresove of h is eineception of the over rate at which his proceediew had Area esthossed. Ile could claim no praise but o hat was attached to the proper diseitintge of his eg otist ditty, and the measures which he had weed mad used epos were. is his opinion, only these which were at pace cow. formahle to the hosi..ser, barren, and prosperity of Great Bri tale, aid to the real nod penaseent comforts of the anti. ei of ladle. INDEhINITY BILL. Upon the Order of the Day for the third reining Of the indemnify Bill, Lord AUCKLAND rose.—Notwithstanding * he said, the alterations, and be was ready to admit they were improvements, which had tellers place in the Committee befit could not bring his mind to sup port the Bill. At present, however.. he meant nal, to propose, -That instead of the third reading, a re .. counnitmeolt - of the Bill should take place. There bad not as yet been laid before the House any clear or sufficient data for the justification of his Majesty's Ministers, in their conduct under the recent Suayre sion of the Habeas Corpus Act. There was nothing advanced to support e rational call for indemnity.— Indemnity could oulyle claimed on the plea of having ' *acted fairly, though unsuccessfully, on laudable and honourable prindpise. Such, indeed, might be the ergo. ment of Ministers, but how had they yet made it manifest ? The Noble sad Learned Lord on the Woolsack had, on a late occasion, spoken of so immense multitude of persons who had hero diepersed under that authority which the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act prodoced, and be had observed that the Noble Secretary, as well as the Magistrates acting under his authority, would be liable to as ninny several prosectrtiams, and persecutions at law, as those poisons might Oboes, to erg, against them. net with great deference 10 the high esthority be longing to that Noble aard Learned Lord, be most observe, that a provision against any such danger existed, sad would be c found in a Statute of 'George 11. Nothing in his apprehension could be so propos . Wont as to the ides of a Bill of Indemnity, where it was contended thee no illegal act bad been commit ted, either by the Minister or the Magistrate. The present Bill was evidently one calculated merely to *stile all eripticy, and to screen from blame not only Ministers, bet the lowest and most degraded under lings of place. It was II Bill framed to protect not only Ministers from enquiry, bet the basest instru mints sating under them from proper infamy. He concluded with moving, that the Bill, instead of being read the third lime, be ordered to be re-coo ' misted. 4 The Bishop of EXETER expressed his serpris• at the manner in which the Noble Lord, who was al ways considered a retinas character, had treated the suhj-ct of those productions which packed the disgust of every well-wisher of the Established Church. It was not necessary for him to repeat what the Noble Lord had said respecting blasphemous publication', nor did it appear to be of amy importance to consi der whether they were intended to ridicule Minis ters or not. If other publications, possessing more p .int and wit, were directed to a similar parpos•, would it be contended, that, therefore, the present attempt to bring our sacred hook end oar sacred Li. 'orgy into disrepute will justifiable? It was s aeri out calamity that such publications should be treated with levity. They had already done crest mischief. but he hoped in God the progress of that mischief w a now arres►ed. Earl GROSVENOR, in explanation, said, that he had expressed his abhorrence of the publications, hot he was still of opinion, that the most likely mode of dispersing the parodies throoghoot thecoentry was that which the Ministers had adopted with a view to suppress them. • The Bishop of EXETER declared, that to his knowledge many of the parodies had been distributed in his own Dinners. Lard ROLI.E assured their Lordship thee they were also distributed very ostensively in Devonshink- Witb respect to the propriety of employing spits, he could state, that a plan was laid for the perpn•u of getting at the arms of his regiment. which ',old probably hive succeeded if it bad not been for the ie. telligeoce of Spies. If some strong measure bed eat heed adapted, greater evils would have occurred ; soil if the Ministers were answerable for say fault rioting the late transactions, it was in his jedginent the fault of too much m Idness. In* LORD CHANCELLOR doubted whether the speech of the Noble Lord (Grosvenor) eentaleed single argesesent which was applicable to Omelette. in befo r e the (tome. He bad himself is former periods of treeble endeevoured to de his dety to he country at large, and be had no hesitation to stating to the Noble Lord, that there were imperial persona of whom he was more afield than of thirpree,-- Would the Noble Lord contend, that blaspiseentele publications ahoeld he pertained not only to acerb the minds of the well disposed, bet to threats the Altar sodas Tinos(' merely because there was a chanced* their prem;ecettee'weeld bete the effort et disenibating them more extensively ? lle had felt it biffiety to my those few words, bowsaw the pt The LORD CHANCELLOR pet the qttetition from the Woolsack, that the words " now read a third time" stand pad of the motion. Lord' KING complained, that the present Bill, sitheogh Needed en es-parte evidonce, and ori ginally reset to be confined to the indemnification of the Secretary of Stile, was now brought for ward u a perfect model for any Mere Bill of a simi lar kind. Their Lordships' Roped had stated, that op to a ordain period, there existed an expectation of bringing the pedalo who had beets charged with inditious practice. to trial; bat if this st,p hod been 1 / , ' • . tr f lr Y" ‘e token, he believed, es le third!, 'of Wetsottinett 3Nry weeld hate convicted ea the "Albite, of as Ile empties. Ho MIN see no stremAty for iltilOng beck the Pelee tisf the parties sse whose Ittellth,oloa "welt persons were tektite Op. It we's ashen, by Noble Lords opposite, 'whether it was possible to disclese the names of poems oh who* informative the offenders had beets seism}, *NSW Obese persons being anode liable to elleertinerioO. 'Aug, he woeld ask their Lordships, wis there lee eeentry ie the wend where witnesses in all cells *ere en snow, from the accost*, being confronted ISM the amused ; and, therefore, there sees e• eireatly to hare re morse to that secret bind of terrorisation for which Noble Lords apposieehstf contended. The principle of sock secret information was tie other than that of the ingelsitiest itself, tied mon &legroom to be le traduced into tliteforispresietse* wf this srowttry.— If of Inetensity were to follow ei mistters of feline epos every Sespeniiillimf the Act, sod informers were measeed of preleddess ea push* of those Bills, the.. the iloadoratels sd criminality were thrown open, sod no Qill could hereafter be more sweeping than the present. The Public was not long since disgusted by informations of porton, whose only business seemed to be to bring the lives of others in peril, for the purpose of gain. If, however, it was expedient to pardon a Vssghtn and Co. the same argument might apply to Castles and Co. and even the scandalous proceedings in Scotland. sot if Spies and Informers were to be considered as psimeagents in such scenes ; if, in the first instance, the Habeas Corpus Act was en their information to he ',speeded, and they were afterwards to be evi dence in favour of the Suspension of that Act, it more than ever became their Lordships tit he emoting, how they passed Acts of Indemnity in behalf of In formers %till Spies. Earl BA rnUItST saw no reason, even if the Bill were divided as proposed by the Noble Lord, why that protection should not be 'strutted to Ma gistrates and individuals who bad given information to Government, which it afforded to Government it self. Their Lordships would, be trusted, see the drift of the present amendment, which reduced them to the dilemma of giving up the names of individuals on whose information they had acted by refusing to disclose them, to wave that defence on which his Ma jesty's Ministers might safely stand.—[Hear, hear!] —Every Act for Suspending the tibias Corpus bad, on former occasions,•been fellowed by an Indemnity Bill, granted whitest examination, with the rscep don of the Bill of 1801. At that time, some Noble Lords would recollect, a Secret Committee was ap pointed to enquire in w hat manner an exttsortlinary power had beets exerted, merely on account of the derides-of that power, which emended through a lang poetise of time, and at the disetetioo of Steele Mena With h; No*, In the present all; net owe arrest bad taken place escept on an information oe oath, and this circumstance made it materially to differ from that of 1801, es in that case they pro ceeded to issue warrants, without an information an oath. He was not prepared to affirm that the neces sity of 1801 might not recur; but credit was due to the present Secretary of State for the Home Depart ment for acting on oaths, which furnished the soundest proof that he acted with justice at the same time. It was objected that Government had pro ceeded on er.parie evidence. What, could any kind of information be mere satisfactory then information derived from respectable persons on their oaths ? But the Noble Lord opposite tumid, for the purpose of ascertaining whether it was proper to give names, new have them disclosed.—[/tear, hear, hear !]— What objection was urged against passing the pre sent Bill ? Their Lordships had passed the Act of last Session in Consequence of the convict ion that t raiterous designs then vitiated ; mod the only question was now, • !tether his Majesty's Ministers were justified in act in; as they foeud it necessary to do under that Bill. Bet it was the felicity of Noble Lords on the oppo site side, always to be provided with evidence of a contrary nature, Thus, if persons were not posi tively brought to trial, it was asserted by those Noble Lords that it was impossible to convict them ; and if persons were tried and acquitted, no matter why, then, again, there was no conspiracy at all.— --(leer, hear!)—But what did Noble Lords mean *hes tenting of Informers? Was it intended to be asserted that when good and loyal men were ac quainted with the designs of traitors, they were not only not to reveal those plans, but even to be pa stished for revealing them ?—(Hear, hear !)—Was it not the peculiar duty of such men, he would ask, to give loch information to the persons at the helm of the State, by whom they deserved to be protected in tern.? Bet the Noble Lord (King) thought that such persons could have nothing to fear upon their names being known. Was it nothing. then, to become the subject of daily talk ; to be pointed at, scandalised, and live exposed to the persecution of the Wiest of human kind ?—(!tear, hear!)—lle would contend that nth characters were entitled to all the protec tion his Majesty's Government meld give. Another ground of objection was, that Acts of Indemnity geoid, in all cases, be proposed in consequence of Acts of Suspension. It should be considered, that it was only in the fall confidence that Parliament would grant such a protectints that Ministers could act un der the Suspension Law ; at the same time, that the arbitrary ezercise of the powers so vested could lead them to expect no indemnity. Those powers would net so often be granted to then, but that Ministers felt responsible to Parliament. The pretties of pass ing Bills of Indenanky had proved the necessity there was for them; sad that seceisity still proved the responsibility of Minister* to Parliament. Earl GROSVENOR expressed his surprise at what had fallen from the Noble Earl on that most die patios of all subjects, Ukeiitect 111 Spies and is. • t .4.1.0 110 t s.. : un t .r a alive ..nt bent, 'so f. • itie , .• 4.6.0 W. WI sti blernersppreelei• lbw name of the osisobief whisk ft might become the means of entailing upon the coon. try hereafter, if unfortunately it should be employed by week and wicked Ministers, to nerve the purposes in which they would worst:) , engage. It might probably be expected, from the part i.e !tad taken in the discussions of last Session. that be should have been present on a former evening, when the enact. mews were discussed in the Committee; hut he felt that Isis attendance was unnecessary, and sltbongh he would not approve of the measure itself, be was not prepared to say, that there was not occasions upon which in Indemnity Bill ought to be pulsed.— Two grounds were• necessary in order to justify a Bill of this nature. In the first place, it shou!tl he shown, that there was no inferiority in the grounds on whit% the Rohm Corpus Act was suspended ; end, secondly, that these was no abuse of the powers which that Act gave to the Administration. lie was bound to say, that he could not support the Bill, because he did not think that satisfactory jecoends were established to prove the necessity of the 11102 Sere Out of which it arose. All the doubts be entertained and espressed in the course of last year, were confirmed by every thing that hod since transpired. Though the justification on which Mi nisters relied, was the alleged danger of the country, be believed the real cause of their proceedings was se Ipprebension of the progress which Parliamentary Refire was making in the country. If they thought "the views of the Reformers were of a dangerous tendency, and the principle of Universal iurftsge satiVersive of the Constitution, the hest, the most candsd. sod straight forward proceeding for them to have adopted, was to consider the publications in 'which such views were manifested, and such princi ples avowed, as libels, and to prosecute them as ,suck. Considerable alarm was excited last year, by the Reports of the Committees. and by the language 4thich was adopted by Noble (Ards in that House ; but, after the first Report was published, it soon be trayed its own infirmity. It was (nand to be &fee illee in one material point—that of the existence of a Club in London, with which all the minor Clubs ihroeghout the country kept up a correspondence. — Ai remembered that a great alarm took place at Chester, in consequence of the esistence of a Club, perfectly constitutional and loyal, at the bead of Which a most respectable person presided ; it was ho -111 Sered with the title of the Knights of Brunswick. 'With so many Orders already in the country—the 'Order of the Garter, the Order of St. Patrick, the Order of the Bath, in all its ramifications, the Order of the Thistle, &c. and a prospect of a new-crested Older of the Leek, which, being himself half a Welshman, he should have no objection to—with so many Orders in existence, a great alarm was taken at the new Order of the Knights of Brunswick, with. out any better reason to assign for it than the accu mulation and variety in which they existed alreedy.— With regard to the seditious and blaspbeemo pebli- Minis, on which so much stress had been laid, b* weed declare that be bad never heard or saw soy t)t. 44 . 41 NMI ... .1 htitt - ,Nt.:,":1 11 ,•1tc-st , rj ' ote •., ~. /tki , . sr i:4.'•% lor I• • itit• elf/ •