The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-05-06 00:00:00

THU gTATEsitias occasion, America heti sent do Agent to Jamitiea to' foment or create disaffection to the British Goterne rent ? Mr. Henry rippeated, according to the Amee rice!' statement, which still he wished to discredit, to be the authorised and accredited agent of the British Government, as the various items of the alleged cor respondence sufficiently showed. It was, undoubt eele, tery strong presumptive evidence. Former services of Henry were alluded to in Sit James Craig's letter. He conjured their Lordships, in the co nsideration of the subject, not to confine their fhenghts to points of policy merely, either of Arne+ fiCI et of England, but to procure, by an express reel unequivocal contradiction on the part of his Mae le ti's Ministers, of the disgraceful charge exhibited :eeriest them, a viedication of the national honour.— If such a fort contradiction should not be afforded by Ministers, he should feel it incumbent on him to bring f u se and a specific motion' on, the subject. At present, he should content himself with moving for Copies of the Correspomiqnce between Sir James Craig and the Secretary of Stale ; and also for Copies of the Cis r respondence between General Prevost, Mr. Ryland, en d Capt. Henry. The Earl of LIVERPOOL immediately rose and said, he agreed with the Noble Baron that the pre sent was a question which had no reference with the line of policy proper to be pursued with respect to America. It stood upon general principles, which, atcoeling to the circumstances, were applicable to the case of any independent state whatever. It was therefore from a strong sense of public duty that he dissented from the present motion. He would state , the circumstances of the transaction, as far as they had come under his view. In the first place, he had to state , that the employment of the person in ques tion (M r. II.) as an agent, by the respectable officer who then governed in Canada, was never authorised at the time, nor was it even known to his Majesty's Government, that ouch a person had been employed until many months after the transaction. It was true then, in leoB, at the time an important nego tiation was pending, a person 'lamed Lavater, had, of his own accord, opened a correspondence with a person connected with the Government of Canada; the purport of which wife, the procuration of a spe cies of information, which it was the duty of every Officer a ce-curestanced, to acquire. He returned to Canada about the end of that year; and before he proceeded further, it was proper their Lordships should consider the situation ia which Canada was then placed, with respect to the Government of the United States. A very great heat and clamour pre railed in America at the time, and the country as- sumed a very warlike and menacing attitude. Not only defensive measures were then set on foot, but on the ‘2sth of November the Governor of Boston had received orders to hold 10,000 mot, then under his commaud, in readiness to march at a moment's notice. This circumstance was puldicly notorious, and stated in the public papers. This was in the • province nearest to British North America, acid if that lorce could be applied at all, it was to the inva sion of our dominions. This was General Craig's conviction at the time, as he even prevented the ex pedition then ready for sailing from Halifax against Martinique ; but retained them because it put all of our North American possessions in great hazard.— But that was not all : on the reth of November, Con- • gress voted 50,000 volunteers, on the requisition of the Executive ; of this Mr. Erskine, our then Mi nister, very properly demanded an explanation.— What possible eventual object could such a force be for, but to attack the British American possessions ? • The answer of Mr. Madison to Mr. Erskine was, that the conduct of the Belligerents was such to- • oards them (the Americans) as to authorise the commencement of hostilities, Without any ftirther notice ! [Cries of Hear, hear, hear !] Mr. Erskine then very properly sent off an express to Sir James 'Craig, informing him of the circumstance ; and it was known that Canada or Halifax were the points first to be attacked. These circumstances served at least to throw n colour upon the relations in which the two Governments stood at tae time. [Hear, hear!] But other circumstances might be mentioned, hostilities were actually committed at the time; some British boats were sei4ed oo the Lakes, though no reprisals were attempted. [Hear, hear!] The four Eastern States of America took the most active measures at the time, w ith reference to the commence atent of hostilities, and their Lordships must feel ) , ow desirable and necessary it was at the time for the Governor of Canada to know the sentiments Of the different States, and an opinion generally pre vailed, that in the event of a war, some degree of !epatation would take place. lie believed that no pan would say the conduct, of Gmieral Craig, on such an emergency. was improper. NVhatever may be said as to the question of policy, there could be little's to the point of runrality,w the state of pre pietism, acid the menacing attitude of the American Coveinment was considered; when they declared tostiiities may be commenced without further notice. [Hear, Var. l ] But having received communica tions from Mr. Henry, and thinking that he was well acquainted with the general sentiments of the Laste; J:ateS, he sent him thither in February 1809. .A great deal which appeared in the papers, however, leas false and unfounded ; but as far as authentic in struction went, ho must contend the directions were loot for the purling! of exciting discontent, but wholly for the purpose of obtaining information which in the event of hostilities might enable Sir J. C. to avail him self o!' the preva lent temper a nd disposition in the States. There was eo presumption warranted in any thing or measure adopted by Sir J. Craig, that such un fair or improper objects were in hie view. So far from it, that when he beard the points in discusSion wereadjusted between Mr. Madison and Mr. Er skine, he sent orders to Mr.' 11. to withdraw from the United States—[hear, hear!] and that proved that all his instructions were given in the contempla tion of hostilities. With respect to what was said of the applications which were made by Mr. Henry for remuneration, he had to observe, that when such applications were made, it was naturally an object with him to enquire into the character and conduct of the individual so applying : and on the security of the recommendation from Sir James Craig, and it appearing he had been employed in procuring, cer tain information, and that some remuneration had been promised him for his services, he had no hesi tation in saying, that as be thought he had been so employed' ) antLuothing appearing against the time • Meter of the individual at the time, he hold it his duty ; as he should in all cases df the kind to have acted, as was mentioned, in the correspondence with General Prevost: Such a line of conduct was adopt ed, as the impressions of what the individual might have done in the way of rendering a desirable ser vice fairly warranted. Neither was it afterwards deemed consistent with delicacy to say any thing which might have reflected in the least upon the cha racter of Sir James Craig,• who had returned home from his government under a mortal distemper, and to survive but a few months.—[flear, hear!] — But he could not think the course adopted bY the Noble Baron the most proper to be taken ; it should rather be left to our Government to take such-mea sures as they deemed proper, to explain and set forth the subject in its true light. Neither did he approve of the course adopted by the American Exe cutive; they should hare demanded an explanation in the first instance of the British Government.— [Hear, trusted these were principles and convictions on this delicate question, which their Lordships would feel and entertain ; and if they saw that no blame could fairly attach to his Majest% 's Government on the occasion, they would do them the justice to believe they w ould n o t b e want i ng t o themselves, or neglect their duty on the occasion ; a part of which he (the Noble Lord) felt it to be to re sist the motion. Earl GREY argued at some IPngth in support of the motion, and maintained that on a question of such importance, Goverummit ought to be anxious to justify itself to the world. Ha contended that the person alluded to, instead of being sent as a legi timate agent, was authorised to sow dissension among the United States. if America had shown a hostile disposition, it ought to" be met by a declaration of war. llow would ►►e have felt if France had sent emissaries to stir up the Catholics of Ireland ? lie thought the Noble Lord's conduct rather incautious in appinting Captain Henry without any other do- Cumeats, and the transaction being known to Go vernment without any expression of disapprobation, was a circumstance highly objectionable in their conduct. I Lord LAUDERDALE said, that Sir James Craig, by recalling Mr. Henry as soon as the apprehension of war was over, showed that he was aware of some thing against the law of nations. Lord Liverpool's letter, recommending extreme caution, was another proof of the nature and character of the transaction. „It was not, as had been statel, the affair of Sir James Craig, but the of of Governmeut, and America could have no security that we would not send spies to that country now, if we did ndt take steps to di , clr.int this disgrace. Lord W ESTMOR LAND opposed the motion, and stated, that Sir James Craig's instructions were only t.; be acted on iU cases of hostility. ! Lord DARNLEY said, that though lie could not hope to add any thing to the unatisn ered and unan swerable arguments of his Noble Friends, yet feel ing much for the honour of the country, he could not avoid declaring his protest against the proceed ing. In the absence itf more authentic documents, he would refer them to a letter of Mr. Henry's, in which he spoke of the approbation given by his Ma jesty's Ministers to his conduct. Let the Noble Earl come forward and deny the whole transaction, and he was sure the House would be satisfied; but if not, he considered it as already established, that Mr. henry was employed for the purpose of foment ing division. lie called upon their Lordships as the persons most peculiarly called upon to vindicate the honour of the country, to remove the disgrace under which it at present lay. Lord HOLLAND replied, he should not leave the house with satisfaction to his own mind, were he not to express his grief at, and his abhorrence of, the side-Winded way in which Ministers had attempt ed to evade the abominable charge made against this country by America. It was true they did not step forward boldly, and by throwing off the mask, ad mit the charge; but they did what was much worse, they removed all blame from their own shoulders to those of Sir J. Craig. They panegyrized and eulo gized that gallant man, whose remains have recently been removed to the silent tomb; and immediately proceeded to load his name nit,' having been con cerned in so diabolical a traesaction as that described by 'Henry. Such was the friendship of the Minis ters—such was the value of their eulogiums! Every word that had been uttered by the Noble Lords op posite went to palliate the whole business, though they had taken special care not to justify it in direct terms. As to their excuses for it—the situation of the provinces—that Ministers had had nothing to do with it—the impropriety of such a discussion, they went indirectly to justify the whole business. The Noble Lord then commented on the unfairness of Mi nisters, in quoting a letter which had not been pro duced. As to the question itself, he called for a de nial of the charge by that House in the face of Eu rope. He wished for its refutation—on that ground he made his stand; he demanded to efface all suspi cion, to remove all charge that tended to sully the honour and chiracter of the country. But nothing . had fallen from the Noble Lords opposite which di / rectly refuted the charge; if the arguments that had fallen from them meant any thing, they went to a justification of the charge. It was necessary that a public charge should receive a public refutation ; but . it would now go out to the world that America had I brought a charge of infamy against England, and I that the Ministers of England, after a mature deli ! beration had not refuted it. They would give no decisive explanation ; they left the country bewilder ed in the false statements of the Ministers on the I charge of America. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw. The House then divided— For the Motion Against it Majority Adjourned. - 27 - 73 - -46 110 USE OF COMMONS. • The House being summoned to attend in the House of Peen, on his return, the SPEAKER acquainted the House, that the Royal Agent had been given, by Commission, to several Public and Private Bills (for which, see the Lords). Mr. LONG presented an Account of the extraordinary Ex- Eences of the Army for the last year, pursuant to Orders of his Royal Hilliness the Prince IC-WM—.Ordered to lie on the table. Colonel LONG Fl ELD presented a Petition from certain Mer chants and Traden of the City of .Cerk, against the Bart India MoeopolZ. ir J. SHAW presented a Petition from the United Coirtnany Of Packer+, ard persons engaged in the Woollen Trade, em ployed by the East India Co•nbany, In favour of the renewal of the Cast India Company's Charter. Upon the Motion of Mr. ROSE, the Parish Register Bill was ►e-enmmitted, and some new clauses (purticularly to exempt Quakers from the provisions of this Bill) were proposed, and agreed to: The House having resumed, the Bill Was Ordered td be re printed, and read a third time on Friday next. The House went into a Committee upcin the Irish Distille ries. ___ • Nit% W. W. POLE proposed, that the present Duty of ss. Ild. per Gallon, upon Spirits distilled from Sugar, in Ireland, should be repealed, and in its place a Duty of 3q. W. per Dation, should be enacted, by which it would be brought upon a par with the Spirits distilled from Ortin. The Resolutions were agreed to, and the Report ordered to be received to-morrow. _ Upon the Motion of Mr. W. WYNNE, the Report on the Revenue Laws' Bill was re-considered, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time on Friday. The Scotch Local Alilitia Bill, and the Plate Drawback Bill, were severally read a third time, and pawed. Mr. WHARTON moved for, and brourht up. an Account of the distri:nition of the Vote of Uri•dit. for the last year.--kh.. dered to lie on the table, and he printed. UN LAwrut, oATHs. Mr. Secretary RYDER, pursuant to notice, moved for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the 37th of his Majesty, relating to the taking of unlaw ful oaths. Ile stated, that it was very notorious that these oa'::s were very prevalent at present, in some •of the disturbed parts of the country. lie read one of titis description, which was found in -the pocket of one of the rioters who was shot at Manchester, by w hich he bound himself to keep inviolably secret the names, places of residence, &c. of the Secret • Committee, to make known the names of those who betrayed the secret, that their names might be blot ted out of remembrance for ever, a.id their lives forfeited to Ow first brother they sheuki meat. That these oaths, in many parts of the cociftry, he was sorry to say, were but too prevalent, and called for some more severe Legislative enactment than at pr!!. sent existed. lie should therefoi'e propose, that the person so taking or administering tl oath should he !liable to the punisbmeut of capital feloay, nithout benefit of clergy. By the act as it now stood, this crime was transportation ; but in case the party !should relent and confess his crime before a Magis trate, and upon tahiog the oath of allegiance. lie should be exempted from the penaltias of this Bill.— ; These were the outlines of the measure proposed, of the necessity under the existing circumstances, there 1 could be no doubt ; but as there would be suffi cient opportunitie3 in the future progress of the , Bill to discuss the principles, he should not then f occupy the time of the House with further observa tions, but concluded by moving for leave to bring in the Bill. ! Mr. IVYNNE said, that the proposed Bill would introduce a new principle of legislation. It had al ways been an established principle of law to distin guish the mere intention of clime from the actual commission, but this Bill at once went to destroy this salutary maxim. He was himself inclined to think that transportation was a sufficient punishment for this offence; and that the proposed penalty of death would tend to this dangerous interference, that since assassination, the completion of the ob ject Of the oath, would be visited by no- severer punishment than the taking of the oath, it would be • as well in all instances to go to the extent of murder. Ile objected also to the pardon granted to those who • made confession. Mr. HORN ER objected to the proposed mea sure, as another instance of the Government legislat iug with sanguinary severity for particular emergen cies. The extreme distresses of the country were the cause of the disgraceful disturbances which had hap pened. Many of these distresses, he firmly believed, arose from causes which no policy could prevent; but many also, he had no doubt, were referable to the bad policy of Ministers, in their commercial and domestic system. The cure for these miseries lay in Parliament : it was for l'arliament to investigate the cause of the mischief, and, if possible, apply the proper remedy ; but if the evil was without cure, yet the experience of past time had clearly proved that it was not by the enactment of new criminal laws, — not by the introduction of new capital felonies, that calamities like the present could be removed. But the great objection to the Bill was, that which had been stated by his Hon. Friend,—it made no distinc tion between degrees of offence. The Government see an evil prevailing, and thea it occurs to them as the most obvious and easy method of putting it down, to put at once the whole force of the Executive Go vernment in array against it. Why did they not rather try the application of the last Act, the Act of 1797 ?—why did they not send down a Special Com mission, which, from the promptitude and solemni ty of its proceeding would be much more likely to produce a salutary effect, than the addition of a new sanguinary law to our criminal code? [Hear, hear!] Mr. PERCE'VAL was happy to inform the Learn ed and lion. Gentleman who had just sat down, that a Special Commission was, as soon as possible, to be sent to investigate the late atrocities : but he would ask, Whether, in consideration of the delay which must necessarily take place, it was not the bounden duty of Government, to whom every post brought information of fresh enormities, to provide some other measures for the salvation of the lives and property of loyal subjects—[Hear, hear!]; and whether Government would be justified in waiting to try t he ex periment how many more persons would be assassina ted? [Loud cheering from the 3finisterial Benches.] It had been objected that the present was only a conspiracy with the intention to take away life ; but itovas a conspiracy so formed as to resemble the most horrible crimes. The most dreadful menaces, the most brutal violence, had been used to force poor indivi duals to take these oaths of confederacy. An Hon. and Learned Gent. had called the present measure an instance of the Government wishing to screen them selves, and elude difficulties, by proposing tempo rary plans. lie would ask, was not the present op position an instance of the deternatnatidu of the other side of the House to oppose any scheme, however wise or salutary, if it happened to be proposed by Ministers ? The Hon. and Learned Gent. had stated, and no doubt with a conscientious belief, that the distresses of the country were owing to Govern ment. This he (Mr. P.) denied; and he must ob serve, that the riogleadkrs of the riotous mobs were not persons in any distress from want of work or oc cupation, but they were persons who had taken ad vantage of the distresses of poor deluded individuals, to induce them to deeds of atrocity. It had also bean made a ground of objection, that the utmost penalty (death) ii incurred id di- fire instance de much as if the crime was committed: But it should be recollected; that the enactment wee net ret tive; and his Right Hdn. Friend intended to propose a clause of indemnity for the past ; thus giving , an opportunity of retreat to thole who hate been cum pelted into these associations, or misled at the mo ment by their own criminal passiens: To thew ittai severe measures of a teniporar) *etre *ere effic tele ous, the Right Hon. Gent. then alluded to the Act concerning the seduction of soldiers, and said , that in consequence of the capital contiction of a Neither two (lase after the passing of the Act, thouah exe cution had not taken place, in coneeetieace . of the recency of the Statute, y e t s o goo d an cif. et had been produced, that inslatius of seduction had bead very rare Since that pi - riod. Mr. BROUGHAM observed, thdt the Chancellor of the Exchequer had thought proper to intreduce two topics net very relevaat to the matter in debate. 'The one was an attempt to mix up the Oppositiou with the ipstigators of the riotsa the other was; te make it believed, that the Opposition resisted every meesure, howeter convieced of its excelleoca, said its necessity, not from any reasonable motive ; but sim.;• ply because it was proposed by Ministers. This l a st assertion had found a congenial echo in the Isogonal of a Noble [peril, and an lion. Gentleman who was placed by. his side, and their loud cheering (lie be; Hewed this was the strongest Perliamentarrword he could use) showed how perfectly they weracousiaced of its truth; for instance, they shicerely believed that any salutary measure, such ae one to cltecit .as; sessination, would be Opposed merely because it ori ginated on the Ministerial side of the House. [flea . r, • hear, hear ! from Mr. b'lephert.)—He observed cheering of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and supposed that It arose from a jealousy at not beiea included in the number whom he had just described. Really it was too notch that his Hon. Friend should not only he subject to the bearing of suck loud shouts (no slight penalty by the way), but should be deem ed incapable of a reasonable motive, because the un fortunate Gentleman happened to sit oti the benches of Opposition. It is said that there is no ..time to , lose—that offences have been already committed.— Well, then, has the existing law been executed ? Is there any thing so different in the present dream stances from those which occasioned the former law, as to call for a new enactment ? That law, at the time, had been thought rather severe; it was passed at the time of mutinies and commotions as violent as those at present, and even Mr. Pitt had thought it sufficiently rigorous. As to the seduction of soldiers it was a di f f erent thing, it was an o ff ence of the j highest nature, and little short of high treason. lie i also insisted, that they had not sufficient grounds to proceed up•sti. The nature of the oath mentioned I was unintelligible ; all that was known was, that it I was a frantic oath, found in somebody's pocket. Mr. STEPHEN said, he could not help etpree sing his astonishment that such a Bill as this should, in this stage of it, meet with opposition. He thought that in so doing the House had not shown its usual courtesy, as it was quite unprecedented.to make this preliminary opposition to a measure unless there were something •highly injurious or . abeitid in its ' principle. With all his experience in Parliament, and all his knowledge of the spirit of party, he was much surprised at this conduct. Mr. HORNER here asked the Speaker, if an ace cusation of the spirit of party was not out of order? Mr. STEPHEN; denied that he had any intention of imputing itto that Gentleman in particular, Mr. S. then observed, that he had more than once borne testimony to high the merit of Sir S. Romilly in his reform of the criminal code; but he thought that Sir si. Romilly would have no objection to the present measure. It had been asserted by the Learned Ju rists that there wis a danger of passing obnoxious laws without discussion ; there was no fear now of such danger, since that which he must again call . party spirit would effectually prevent it. He con cluded by observing, that if Ministers had omitted to take this measure, they would have deserved the n dignation and detestation of their country. Mr. WHITBREAD said, he thought the Henan... able and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Stephen) had been improperly called to order for his allusion to party spitit. It was the old bite allusion, ever ready to be suggested in .lieu of better argument, and ever most in the mouths of those who were themselves the most active and zealous partisans.—[Hear, hear!] —That Learned Gentleman had entered the House, pledged to a certain set of measures. Mr. STEPHEN called to order. The SPEAKER said, that the language was eel... tainly not in order. • 'Mr. WHITBREAD was sorry to have offended the lion. Gentleman, but he should not himself have given the first offence. He had recommended mode• j ration and temper, but had not exemplified it in himself. It was, besides, unfair to accuse his lion. and Learned Friend of exciting a sympathy for the rioters, because he had simply said, that the mea sures of Government had accumulated the distresses of the country, and furnished an opportunity for ! sedition. As to what was said of inflammatory topics introduced in discussion, what did it mean? It went too far,—it went at once to the extinction of all discussion. As well might the doors of the House be shut, and not one word be suffered to escape to the public. He sincerely believed that on this as well as on another occasion the warmth and goodness of Mr. Stephen's feelings misled him. Mr. Whitbread then alluded to Mr. Stephen's. assertion in the case of Captain Lake, that he would have convicted him of murder, though it since appeared that the man supposed to be mur dered was still alive. lie then insisted that the same credit should be given to the motives of the Opposi tion which he was ready to glut to the They, no doubt, conscientiously )sei!eved theta new penalty of death- oo the S!atfte e lniPt, would remedy the evil ; let it theft be believed, mat the Opposition conscientiously dietrgree'wtth this principe. Mr. Whitbread concluded by alluding to the Asti:4l797, when atrocities existed as great as any now practised; and observed that Ministers, in their seal for puniah merit, might be driven to the bollinteneasaree of Henry VItL-or the torture-system practise/I and defended trol..long since in Irelaed. He fully *p ee d with his Ho le Friend on the great pitiot of oh.. jection, that nO listinctiets 'was madeblitwimett ! • '.. . r . ..- •frk. ..• E L:. , • • • . - 711 ; ~'~ ~' II • iii : I ;‘; I i i li .‘ ' 't . `.' r 4 .• ~ I , 4 ) ..4 , 1 • • ' i 4. ; i ttt . 1 . .; !.... . • , . t . 1 1 . • , f , 1 ... ' i a ,1 ii. ; ► • . it f I U i s 11 .1 , I ;