The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-04-21 00:00:00

~N ( i i . r. r . , _ ~;~.. . • \ . owed it to their Lordships and himself, to express respectfully, but explicitly, bit 'two total dissent-1 and disapprobation of it! object. owed it, also 1 , to others to state, that although he presentea this i Petition as th e act of that respectable and learned I body, the act of the majority, and therefore ,of the body; it was not now, as formerly, their ueanimoup act. It had on the contrary beetr opppsed by per. sons highest in station on the spot : by the yice- Chancellor of the University, by both her Proctors,. by several heads of houses, and by a body of indivi -duals as respectable for learning, integrity, and wis dom, as could be found in any assembly. But when he stated this, let it not be supposed that he meant to derogate from the just weight due to the Petition. The Petititioners prayed their Lotdships not to listen I to the Petitions of their fellow-subjects. Ile prayed them to receive and to entertain this Petition—to con sider well its facts, its arguments, and its prayer ; to add to these all the authority which it justly derived from the high character of the body from which it proceeds, and then to put them in the balance against the com plaints and grievances of millions, the prayers both of Catholic or Protestant in Ireland ; ati3 God grant, he said, that your decision may be such as may best promote tke maintenance of those interests for which heconfdentiy trusted the supporters and the opposers of this Petition are equally solicitous. I.ICIiNCEq. The Earl of LAUDERDALE gave notice of a Motion for Friday, for the forms of Licences gratited for the export from France to the Baltic, and for the trade between this country and France.—Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. • The SpaAker was summoned to the Peers by the Deputy Usher of the Slack Rod, to hear the Commission read for giving the Rand Assent to several public and private Bills, for which lies the Lords. A. blionsge from the Peers informed the House, their Lord ships had agreed to the Legal Quays'• Bill. • Mr. BATIIURST presented three Petitions against the re newal of the East India Company's Charter; 1. From the In habitants; 2. From the Corporation ; 3. From the Dock Com " Bristol.— ' and laid on the table. pony of 11,....m.—They were ieverally read,. _ ... on ._. - Mr. STANIFORTH postponed his notice relative to instruc- from the Protesta n t Proprietors of Ireland, and is to the Irish Finance Committee, from this day until Wed -1 perfectly unprecedented, not only in amount of pro- Next. , whose name we could notlearn, gave notice that perty belonging to individuals who have annexed their SIB Ikeda next, he should move for a Committee on the . State names at any former time to" a Petitiou upon th is se on. = e Suunp Office, Accounts were presented of the nom- i subject, but it is the first instance of any general appli ligi fit Licences granted for the issue of Promissory Notes, and cation on the part of the Protestants of Ireland on Wed ember of Stamps granted for the same. They were laid behalf of their Catholic fellow-subjects. TO establish ser to totable. f the importance of the Petition, it is sufficient for Inc the Exchequer, the Annual Accounts of the issue of , lixelbeqwer Bilb were presented, laid upon the table, and upon to state what, without an approach to .exaggeration, 111. Nation of Mg. PONSONBY, it was ordered that they he I may confidently assert, that it expresses the seuti printed. Mr. Hose ' from the Bank of England, presented ao Account ments of a decided majority of the Protestant Propri erthe number of Stamped Milani and Tokens issued by the etors of Ireland.—[llenr, hear !]—l am desirous of Bank during the but year, repeating the fact, because if it be thought that I On the motion of Mr. FREEMANTLE, it was ordered that . there be laid before the House an Account of the Buildings overstate it, I am desirous to be contradicted, that I erected, and quantity of Land purchased in Gloucestershire for . may resort to the proofs with which I am provided. the erection of Barracks, and an estimate of the expences of the i - Artillery Barracks in Mary-le-bone Park. 1 i repeat, therefore, that the Petition expresses the DISTILLATION OF GRAIN IN IRELAND. I sense of a decided majority of the Protestant Pro , Mr. .MAURICE FITZGER.ALD gave notice prietori of Ireland, both landed and commercial. I that he would, to-morrow, move that an Address be, feel it right further to explain, that this Petition, presented to the Prince Regent, praying his Royal although most respectably and numerously signed, Highness to put a stop to the Distillation of grain in it by no means contains the names of all those 4Pro- Ireland. I testants who are favourable to Catholic Emancileition Mr. W. POLE immediately rose and gave notice on principle; and I wish; with the utmost tonfi _ ~ _ . that he would, to-morrow, mow for leave to bring in a Bill to stop the Distillation of Grain in Ireland. [44 laugh.] Mr. M. FITZGERALD said, that notwithstand ing what had just passed, he should not withdraw his notice, as he thought an Act of Parliament extremely inadequate to answer the urgency of the occasion. Mr. W. POLE added, that the measure he should propose would be adequate to the urgency of the occasion. deuce in the fact, to mention the reason why the names of several who are favourable to it on plinci ple, do not appear to this Address. A great Ytum ber of Protestants in Ireland did entertain a notion that it would be proper, in any Petition presented to Parliament, to include conditions and securities. A largeproportion, therefore, declined affixing their signatures, because it did not comprize the stipula tions they required to be inserted. I wish- further to state , that many of those whose names are affixed ROMAN CATHOLICS OF ENGLAND. Mr. ELLIOT rose and said—" I hold in my hand the Petition of a very loyal, and I May add, Of a very illustrious portion of his Majesty's subjects, I mean the Roman Catholics of England, who have se lected me to be the bearer of their claims; it will, I have no doubt, create in this House and in the em pire at large, a melancholy reflection, that tWo years ago, these claims were entrusted to the hands of an individual endowed with powers to do ample justice to any cause, however great—Wear, hoer!]—The lustre these splendid talents shed is now withdrawn, and, according to the narrow views of human wis dom, we may say, that there never was a period in our history when•ne stood more in need of that light to guide us through thegloom of error that surrounds us, and of those stupendous powers to stem the aw ful tide of danger which threatens to overwhelm us. The details of the grievances complained of are to be found in the Petition presented to this House by Mr. Windham,. in 'lBlO, and it is cons yoently needless for me t 0,.. go at I length iute , the topics touched upon; haat • perhaps, not be improper to recal the reConeloilb s rb, Parliament to . the fact, that the Catholics of England stand in a situation different to that of any persons of the same persuasion under the dominion of the Crown. In Canada they are on the same footing as their Protestant brethren ; but the English Roman Catholics are excluded from many of the privileges that the Irish enjoy. The English Catholic cannot vote for a Member of Parliament ; he is shut out 'of all corporations, and is inadmissible to degre a in our Universities; he is not allowed to act as a Ma gistrate, and, in short, is excluded from all both civil and military, so that he cannot even hold a commission in the army "or navy. [Mar, hearn This is the condition, or rather this is the state of disfranchisement of the individuals who have signed this Petition, whose names cannot be read by Eng lishmen, without kindling within their breasts re-; collections of the past achievements of their ancestors, ' for the renown of their native country. They are the descen3ants of those persons, who, when the , Catholic faith was the religion of the realm, we r e the fires opponents of foreign influence; they are the descendants of those who were not • only the proud assertore of the external independence of the country, 1 .but e hose names will be found enrolled with those of the most strenuous supporters of domestic rights' --[Hear, hear!]—who, at the period of religious I animosity immediately succeeding the •reformation, were still admissible to the martial' professions, and sometimes were seen, not only aecompanying our tleets and armies, but leadiutthem to battle and to victory against invaders and enemies Professing the Catholic faith. The Petitioners state, that "in of-- } fection to his Majesty'S gracious persotrtadippvero . ) S , do not desire Catholic Emancipation unconditionally, man to deal hi those insinuations. but it appears to all who have signed, that it was not I Mr. M. FITZGERALD said helstal not the least a-proper matter to be mentioned in a Petition, but / hesitation to name cases, and the county to which he that it ought to be left to the misdom of Parliament : I alluded was the County of Carlow. He had no ' there are numbers who would willingly have added i doubt of the fact, and he would restate it. The no their signatures, if those conditions had been in- mination of Sheriff to that County had been promised serted. Many who expressed themselves decidedly ; to a gentleman, and he had mentioned the promise to favourable to the object in view, have refused to sign several of his friends • but shortly after he was in it on account of the violence of the .secent dif- formed that he had been set aside, because he had ferences between the Irish Government and ti part signed the Protestant Petition : the chrievalty was of the Catholic Body. —I think I have now promised to another Gentleman, but he having also stated enough to entitle this Petition to the se- signed the Petition, and knowing why his predeces ; vious consideration of Parliament. I have, how- sor had been rejected, he declared that he could not ever, to add, what I am sorry to be obliged to therefore accept the office. lie had heard also,and from mention, that against the Petition (conducted in the ; authority that he could not doubt, of individuals who most moderate manner, intentionally guarded against had been menaced by the Irish Government, with the the slightest imputation - of an attempt to agitate the loss of their situations, if they signed the Petition.— : public feelings) all the influence that could possibly He would not mention their names, because that be used by the Irish Government hai been directed. a would be to involve them in that very danger arida. [Mr. W. Pole said " No, no;" very audibly across hung over them. He knave an instance, and could the House.] The Right Honourable Gentleman says prove it, rif a person friendly in principle to the Ca- No; and having so asserted, I feel myself bound to 'tholic Claims, with villein) a Petition had been. left for .go into proofs of the fact. I say again, uotwith- his signature: when called for - the next day, he.salti standing - this contradletion, that the influence of Go- fo The' person cvho ulitr, -- slete yor verument has been most notoriously and indecetitly yesterday I have been threatened with the loss of my ! directed against the Petition I hold in nerhand— place, if I suffer it to remain in my house."—[llear, [Hear, hear!]-The office of Sheriff, a place or .hear !] ' Sl= Most sacred mist, and of the utmost importance to Mr. WELLEfibtr POLE protested that •be the due distribution of justice, has been tamperePknew nothing of the circumstance of the Sheriff Of with..—[ Hear !]—Persons who had beets proidised Carlow. to be made Sheriffs for the next year: have been set Dr. DUIGENAN maintained that the Petititio ‘ aside, because the ibdividual recommending one of had been smuggled about for signatures in a clandeia them had signed 'the Protestant Petition. I sae, that tine underhand manner.- Not one-third of those Who another person who was actually understo'al to be had si g ned it knew any thing of its contents: he hin: appointed, did signify to the Irish Government, - that, self ha d not rend it ;: but from the cowardly way in having . also signed the Petition, he apprehended he which it was handed about, he did not believe it con should be deemed an improper person to fulfil the' tained the names of one hundredth part of the Pro duties, as his predecessor was rendered incapable on testant property of Ireland. - lie could speak pada a similar account.---[/pear, bear !]'•-.4 know that in- *hasty as to the North of Ireland, and from thence - dividuals possessing -public situations, I will not - say the signatures, he knew, were very insigitiectiet; directly, but indirectly, received menaced • from those from the County of Down excepted. the 'Government, that they shout, forfeit their ; Mr. PARNELL thought the Right lion. Doctor places if they favoured the Petitioti. I knew, • was quite incompetent: to deny the respectability of too, that the partizans of Government have held the signatures to the Petition, as he confessed he out threats to people, if they •sulterail the. Pe, had hot seint the Petition, and of course could know tition even' to remain iw terrors their houses.; the terro of nothing 'about the signatures. He himself had no inflicted vengeance have been used in the most undis. doubt that- they did represent the-Protestant majority rased manner fur the avowed purpose of defeating of commercial .and the Petition. Under all these circumstances, it I knew that the-pitt tWOCatholic Petitions were sign stands a proud proof of the rapidly extending rbe b st !ended property ie Ireland. He ratify of the Protestants of' Ireland far- 'lnd, therefore, be Catholic Emancipation,. [lic I - t . y a__ oev Irish bleni_bessiik that Hot.c ; and is to site an extreme • gratifi4 the most numerous' sigc the North of Ireland, are' peculiarly Protestant, 'of ft, bedauta. it shoat c only. part Ii Ireland formeri S tts of ' Ireland in favour of ;if the Protestant property of Ireland , therefore, be L. [Hear, hear, hear! ] . It; properly represented, 'lad spoke 'that . 'la spoke a volume. gratificatiou to' state, that . Chen was otiljr one Petition against the Catholic gnatures are obtained Irons I claims, and that 'was from the Corporation of t he the inhabitaata trf width Cliy.4K,Dublin,; but when he recolleated how much 4. il, PRI thf moist sreo that Corpossitiot was under the influence of 'Govern- a'sbabge ,of. opinion In libe jeeei l he wee. pot Much-surprised at it.. • Imo4 l / pest Gaveled to tidy Sir GEtiitt E 1111%1% denied that Gower/10 1 (1a -iu" . .. • 1 • - • • • T 1 I F. :wAg; . ~,.~, corm- meoeure : it is a change to be'well considered by his ment,mildnstit'eas.4l,4oC7 stthateioColl4:;l the ed viewswelfa reanodf-rotigus try, . of Maresty's Miuisters, becauseit proves tam the Pro. foreign fro trPr'4, the English Roman Catholics veld testantsas well as Catholics are now united in the to no portion of his Majes t y' s subjects. They Soule. 1 have said th a t it i s s i gne d very numerously; " therefore claim, that they may be allowed to parti. but the names are not nearly so numerous Its (boy cipate in the remaining part of the, privileges which , mould have been if the Petition had, been circ u l a t e d genets' enjoys, that they May ' among the lower class es . Th e s i guatures only of t m h o e:B e r e i s tl ec ilr to n a a i t i l y ttt iti rally round their Sovereign at this , persons of considerable property are affixed to it, a period of pert/liar danger. They throw thems elves 1 circumstance ver y much to h e re gretted; because, in On the ivjsdont, thepolicy, the justice, and 1 hope ' a case like the present, it would have beets desirable on the hearts aud feelings of the Mem- to ha v e ascertained thus unequivocally the Sense of Ire n r l s aY of ad t d his ' liouse. [Hew, hear '.] It is not my the middle, as well as the higher order of Protestants. intention now, more thin to move that the Petition The persons who had the mana g ement of it were,do lie upon the table, reser v ing to m y self the ri g ht, however, desi g ned to apply only for the signat ures should it he necessary, .Of-adopting any further pro- of persons of landed property, and although it is swelled by the names of s e ve ra l. thousauds, it is not . ' The Petition was then brought up au d read, to g e. for this reason, of suc h ma g nitud e as it would other.' ceedings 'founded upon it." (her with many of the noble names attached to it.— wise have appeared. I should remark also, that there It was laid upon the table. are several parts of Ireland to which, from acciden. Sir F. BURDETT presented a Petition from a tae circumstances, the Petition was not sent, but perion named Samuel Fletcher, a brewer, compla in- I where, had - it been otherwise, it would ha ve me t . ing of having been ruined bye a conspiracy of the . with very extensive support. En some parts many officers of Excise. It was read and laid on the ta- I signatures have been obtained which have not been blo. . affixed to this Petition ; for, by letters I have re ceived to-day, I find that Since I quitted Ireland, several copies of it have been signed most respectably in the County of Down, which is more peculiarly a Protestant district. Under these circumstances, I feel myself authorised, not only to beg permission to.bring this Petition up, that it may be laid upon the table, but to recommend to the House to receive it with serious attention, as containing the decided sentiments of the uninfluenced and independent part of the Protestant Proprietors of Ireland."—[llcar, hear !) * . . - • PIiOTESTANT PETITION. • Mr. MAURICE FITZGERALD sai4P—g 4 I am charged with a Petitibn which is to be presented to this House from the persons , whose names are signed thereto, being protestant, land-owners in Ireland.— Some circumstances that have occurred regarding it, render it necessary that I should trouble the'House with a few words. I would first take the liberty of stating why it has devolied upon so insignilieant an individual as myself, to present one of the most im portant Petitions that can be brought under the con- sideration of Parliament. It may bo known that the MeMber for Dublin, at whose suggestion this Petition was first set on foot, was immediately idler wards obliged to leave Ireland; and it devolved Upon me to undertake the task he reluctantly resigned, and to be instrumental in its progress, and I am consequently in possession of circumstances impor tant to be known previous to the approaching dis cussion of the Catholic Question. The Petition is On the question that the Petition be brought up, Mr. WELLESLEY POLE said, aftel► what had fallen from the Right Honourable Gentleman, he thought it necessary to trouble the House with a few observations. He did not deny the assertion of the Right Honourable Gentleman, that those who had signed the Petition constituted the majority or the Protestants- of property in Ireland ; but he would say, that it was the first time, he believed, that the majority of the Protestants had been favourable to Catholic Emancipation. He strongly denied, how ever, that the Irish Government had used any undue influence, or any influence at all, to prevent that Petition from being signed.; and he was very certain that if the Irish Government had chosen to exert it- . self on the occasion, or had wished to cause any dissention, Petitions of a Very different nature to that now presented, would appear on the table. He (Wellesley Pole) was in Ireland at the time the mea sure was suggested, and he remembered the speech with which it was introduced, at a public dinner, by the Right Hon. Gentleman himself; but he distinctly declared, and in the most decided manner, that the measure was not interfered with, either directly or indirectly. The object of the Irish Gevernmeot was to allow Catholics or Protestants to petition the L. gislature, in any way that was not illegal. The Right Honourable Gentleman had alluded to the cue of the appointment of a Sheriff; but he wished tissf. allusion had been explained; for his own putt, he' did not believe it had any foundation, ana the best proof, he thought, was the character of the_porsims, .411_ who was now Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, liid any body suppose that the Duke of Richmond woulii lend himself to such views ? He believed, on the contrary, and declared his belief, upon the honour and conscience of a Gentleman, that any person of fering such advice to the Duke of Richmond, would be scorned by him, as one desirous to involve the country in confusion and distrust. He wished the Pet ition to have a full and free discussion ' • but he thought it was not ezactiy correct in the Right lion. Gentle• .Y..~ c .. 1 r• wouldtie,rfre tj e tio t i l bi e e f i ri t ot h cas e r one dtuht eyct w oo a up y or nrteys ea th nnt e dt o c t er . He said that it ' myo of Londonderry a great body of the inletbitanta of which was again st - Catholic Emancipation. Mr. W. POLE stud Mr. M. FITZGERALD mu. Wally explained. Mr. HUTCHINSON affirmed, that there was complete revolution in the sentiments of the Proles. tauts of Ireland, and be thought the day could not be far distant, when that revolution of sentimect would lead to the concession of every thing which the Catholics required. Mr. FITZGERALD denied that the Petition had been smuggled about; but he confessed that it had been communicated with as little publicity as possi. ble, to avoid any agitation of the public mind:.—it .had even been placed in the centre of a commercial city, in Dublin, that those who wished might know its contents, and those who had liberality enough of sentiment might sign it.—lt had also been advertised, and the names were now being printed, in order to show that it had been signed by the majority of the commercial and landed property in Ireland. lie re. peated that the greater portion of the signatures was from the North. The commercial body in lielfaa and Newry had signed it ; also those who represented tho commercial property of Dubliu, of Cork, and of Limerick : and would the Right lion. Doctor cad these an insignificant portion of the wealth of Ire land? . De: DUIG ENAN maintained that the Petition was smuggled about in a clandeetioe manner. Ito knew instances where persons who went to see i t , were aske&first of all if they meant to sign it? and if they declined saying whether they would, or not, they were refused the perusal of it. When the name< were printed, they would then know whether they did represent what they were asserted to do; but he was certain that there were many Protestants of the first eminence who reprobated Catholic Emanci. Pa• tion With regard to the Protestant _Petition, he knew that various arts were used to obtain signatures: many shopkeepers in Dublin, whose subsistence de. pended upon their trade, were threatened with a ge neral combination to ruin them if they did not sign it. lie knew this could be prOvecl.—lie could men tion several counties where the Petition. was rejected with disdain by the Grand Juries; and therefr had grounds for saying that it did not contai _ majority of the Commercial property of Ireland. would mention an instance of a Dissenting Mini in the country, who signed the Petition, •wl, hunted out of his church by his congregation, reproached with the opprobriotis name of - ' Judas. [A laugh.] Mr. CRAIG declared, that three-fourths Protestant population of Belfast, was more fay ble to the Catholic claims. I Colonel VERMEER, said; that a great pot, the Protestants of Limerick, was not favourable Catholic Emancipation. The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose to present a Petflii from the Roman Catholics of. the Count, anJ and County of Waterford, ,signed by a tart of men of great respectablikty, both landed an. mercial. The Honourable Baronet was thee proceeding comment In a tone of strong- animadversior those gross and groundless calumnies, whi been propagated by a certain quarter, sot Roman Catholics of Ireland, when he was cal. order by Mr. POLE CAREW, on the ground of . being orderly, to allude to what had passed former debate. Sir J. NEWPORT said, that in speaking t( tition, which complained of these calumnias, a right to advert to them, as they had been sent on the public, in the shape of a pamphlet Right Hon. and Learned Doctor opposite. He moved that the Petition be brought up. Dr. DUIGENAN said, that any thing he had against the Roman Catholics of Ireland in any debate, he had said against the whole body, al against those-of Waterford or any other coi Ireland; therefore he could net see why the Hon. Baronet should have made any allusion He reminded him (Dr, D.) of Harlequin in tl tomime building up a castle of pasteboard . might knock it down nith his wand of lath—besi( it would have been more proper if the Hon.' man had reserved the eloquence of which the) so much every night, till Thursday next, w) should have plenty of opportunity to answer Doctor's) opinions about the Roman Catholic [A laugh.]—The Petition was then brought read, and ordered.to lie upon the .table. itEPEAL OF THE LEGIIIikTIVE UNION. itailUTCHlNSOYigaiStit I was not I .9 tension to bring before the Route the question Repeal of the Legislative U l tilbn; upon tin .(Tuesday, 28th) for which it at present stood. sees at the same fiMe anxious to'have it distinct! derstood, that his sentiments upon the whole . great question remained unaltered--arcumstal however, wholly unconnected with his opinions the subject, might have occurred to render tht ponement at this particular time expedient...--[. hear)] —He did therefore now postpone it, should, upon a future day, state when he . finally bring it forward. • COLONEL MBIAHON. Mr. HORNER postponed file Motien respecting Colonel . M'Mahon from -Wednesday till We& so'nttight. GOLD COIN BILL. Mr. POLE CAREW, on the question that Report of the Gold Coin Bill be brongrht up, / oppose the question, but thought-that the part of the_Bill, ivhickbad the tlf;ct to offer for gold, than its ; nominal • value, - was eapai amendment. fir TH0M.1.3 TURTON said, that the was one which he bad long foreseen as one of evitable consequences of the present system, Mr. TAYLOR, jun. deprecated-the interft of any Government between the national Btinl the public credit—it had been at all times ruin , eitlort or to-both. - A Member, whole name we could not barb, et:94llT ins - a few observations. fy culpable , of loxert;illl;'o:;sl.K,olE9TaionONacEtioenosnideomt • mu. was I Proles. aid not ntimect filch the ion had it had s possi. nd :—it mercial tt know ough of ertised, Irder to • of the Ile re. [res was Belfast resented rk, anti . tos• call of Ire. f Petition h . . no ) see it it? and or not, t name.< ter they ; but he • s of the. Emanci. tion, he natures: mce de- ith a ge. not sign Ild men- rejected efore he 'tamp the nd. Hs Minister who was ksn, aed another s of the favours- salon of arable to le. Petttion and City rge body end corn- ceding to on upon doh had ainst the called to its not mod in a to a Pe- he hid It abroad by the He then had slid y former and not .oruer of to Right s to him. the pan. that he -besides, Gentle. ey heard when he his (the c sect.— , u p and t his in. I us of the the dal od. He ctly sm. of that 'stances, ms upon he post. -[Hear, and be shookd specting dnesdef that the , did not I former er mol )o'3 Of relen t l a rference Lnk And inous tc b, 01 00 oxinCiPle b i pa ble, 1 I r - I! II I ~;~ !~' „A :~ a 'fR ~:~ /