The Statesman. — London, England, 1822-06-08 00:00:00

, 11 -4 11111 Ia ecinftoversy might fairly exist. Ile had never refused : Ace°. e, except when the opinions expressed were in de rect contradiction to the doe fines of the Church. I was also false that he had added 36 questions to the on ginal 97. He had not added; but substituted those 36 fox the 67, in cases of examination for Curates • in those fot Ordination he had made no alteration. T he Petitioner wished to recognise no other standard of doctrine than the 39 Articles: but he contended that the Liturgy formed part of the test to whiels it was necessary to subscribe. Every Candidate was required by the Canon, to give account of his faith according to the Ar- Celt% of religion. But could lead° so by the mere actor putting his name to those. articles ? . Would not that be nugatory? The Canon warranted examination, and ex amination warranted his questions. The articles with. out beiieg interpreted said nothing. It was interpreta tion *hid) prevented them from being a dead letter. — In-the answers returned to his question, he had sonic times found the articles made to express the very reverse of their real meaning. Was it his duty in these eases tp grant ordination or licences ? Yet in the course of five rears, the number of persons to whom be had refused either. did not amount to more than three. The Royal Declaration at the bead of the Liturgy, bad given as mach offence at the time to the adversaries of Archbi shop Law, as this question had done to his opponents. — An Address bad then been presented to the King, as one was now proposed, and if the same party, prevailed in the present day as in the time of Charles I. the Malmo of Peterborough might undergo the same'faie as Arclebi ; steep haw. The Petitioner prayed their LoAships to address his Majesty to enforce the Royal Declaration, but that Declaration warissued to insure the grammati cal explanation of the Articles, and that was what Isis questions were intended to do. Should his Majesty is sue his mandate to forbid the use of those questions he should bow in submission; but it would become their Lordships, before they agreed to an Address calling fur such exercise of the Royal Prerogative, to consider u br iber it would be consistent with the Constitution of Church and State. Ile therefore trusted that their Lord ships would not think it necessary to concur with the prayer of a Petition founded in fallacy and falsehood. — Of this he was convinced the Noble Lord was not aware, when he yielded to the solicitations of the Petitioner to present it to the House. Whatever might he their Lord- ships decision, he could leave no personal interest in the matter, and he Was only anxious to retain the use of his questions, because the experience of five years had sa tisfied him of their utility. He now stood a second time in his own justification, though it was not usual to be tried twice for the same offence, and it wits not very seeming that an individual who dedicated his life to the defence of Christianity, should be twice put upon •bis own. He now should leave his case in the hands of their Lordships. Lord HOLLAND conceived that the Rev. Prelate had used harsh language towards the Petitioner. For though he was a man of learning anti a Prelate, he hail not the power of reading hearts and 'mowing the motives of soma. After having attentively listened to the Rev. Pre late's speech, he mast say, that the whole tennur of it displayed the most complete Ignortratia cleßrhi that lie had ever witnessed in a public man or a• public hotly. The question was, whether the principle of examination was justified by the law of the land, and he held„accord ing to sound constitational doctrine, that if a remedy were not (flood in the Church or the Law, it must be fouod in Parliament. The Rev. Prelate said, that his questions were not tests, but a mode of examination ; but this was a miserable subterfuge, and the Rev. Pre late was surely too manly not to own, that his object was to tied out the religious opinions of individuals. — As to the canon law being binding on Ecclesiastics, he doubted whether it might be considered as the law of ti•e land, not having received the same sanction as the ;L9 Articles and the Liturgy. The only ground on which the Rev. Prelate was able to stand was the •ISth canon, and even that was ambiguous. The Thirty-nine Arti cles, as they at present s'oewl by law established, were put in their present shape at the commencement of the reign of Queen Elizabeth, in 136*.t. Would the Learned and Rev. Prelate deny, that from the time of Luther, from the time of the Reformation itself, the principles of Armenianism were not unknown to the Church ? Would any man believe such a thing, or if he did, would be venture to assert it? If these questions had been pro posed, since the framing of the Articles, to many of the greatest ornaments of the Church, would they not have given such answers as would have excluded - them from the Church, if such a system had prevailed? The ten dency of the system was to narrow the basis of the Church—a most dangerous policy in whomsoever might pursue it. The Articles bad always since the time of Charles IL been considered as articles of peace rather than of uniformity. The object or policy of them had been, In the language of their historian, to preserve a discreet laxity. That good and learned person, Arch bishop Wake, said, that it had always been the practice, and, he trusted in God, that more would never be re quired from the candidates for the Church than • sub scription to these articles. Now the Learned and Rev. Prelate opposite must either use all the harsh and un charitable language to that great person, as he had ap plied to the Petitioner, or else be inconsistent with him self. lie did not mean to put articles of examination to the Bench of Bishops; but he believed that if any such course were taken, it would be found that great diver sity of opinion existed. He had heard that persons who Lad been refused in the diocese of Peterborough, had gone to a diocese where the y . had been known, and were ordained. He protested against the cruel practice of ex amining Curates upon the Articles. If a man after long deliberition with himself, resolved upon entering the Church of England, or any Church, it was most cruel am! impolitic in that Church to reject him. lie must say, that in his opinion the Bishop of Peterborough hod very mach exceeded his legal authority in putting his Eighty-seven Questions upon the Thirty-nine Articles. At all events, it he had not exceeded his authority, he had exercised it in a novel, and. to the interests of the Church, detrimental mai a -r. As far as the Church Es tablishment formed part of the laws of the land, it was their duty to maintain the peace thereof; and to prevent the spectacle of one diocese being set against another, they ought to put a stop to this growing evil in the Church. The Learned and Rev. Lord had avowed in that Honse what no one had ventured to do since the Revointion, viz. a desire to straiten and narrow the basis of the Church. lie hoped that House would interfere and widen that basis as much as possible, consistently with their duty to God and the interests of the Church. The Learned and Rev. Prelate talked about Convoca tion. It was a very prettytbing to read about in books, bat he hoped be should never see that power put in ope ration in the present day. Lord CAI TIIORP thought that though there was a discretion vested in the Bishops, the Right Reverend Prelate had gone beyond the hunts of any discretion 'that could possibly have been conceived to attach to the '4Bth Canon, and also in violation of :he King's Ueda action affixed to time 39 articles. That Declaration wir‘ iii forbid the discussion of nice and curious questions such as those put by the Right Rev. Prelate. lie asked whether it was to he tolerated in a country like this. that individuals, who by their learning and attainments would do credit to any profession, should he excluded from carrying those qualities to the Church ? He gave fUll credit to the'Right Rev. Prelate fir that extraordi pity zeal for the Established Church, which - , although disguised, he really believed actuated him in this pro ceeding. But he must declare it as his solemn opinion. that the course pursued by Lieu bad a direct tendency to , - - crate schisms io. the Church; and be hoped therefore i• mould be put a stop to betore its evils became felt. IL 'toped the House would vote for this Petition, as imply :ng a censure upon a practice which since the establish ment of the Reformed Church to this period had octet before prevailed. The Earl of HARROWBY said, that as be thooglit differently now from what be did when the last pennon was presented, he would trouble their Lordships with an explanation of the vote he should give. From the se riousness of the allegations, and the repetition of them, he thought the Petitioner was entitled to mom before the House, and he thought that House was bound to give more attention to the Petition. On the question which the Petition involved, be confessed that be was dis posed to agree in almost all that he had heard from the other side, but lie made a resery on some points. The declaration allotted to, set forth e that the candidate for Hole Orders, "shall give an account of his faith, ar oirding to the articles, and his concurring eith the same shall be sufficient testimony." The practice of the Right Rev. Prelate be thought was eminently prejudi cial and dangerous to the Church. To marrow the foun- I stations of the Church was not the mode to promote its interests. The practice was doubtful in point of law. and clearly wrong in point of pike. He should vets for the Petition being laid on the table, though he was far from pledging himself to support an address whiclf he had not heard read. The LORI) CHANCELLOR was ready, in mincer retire with the principles said down by the Nellie Earl who had spoken last, to vote for the Petition being laid ea the table, whether any thing were to be done upon It or not. But i laying it on the table were to be con sidered to mean f censu re upon the Right Rev. Prelate who was the subject of it, lie, for one, protested against l each an interpretation being put upon Isis vote.—(Hear, hear.) It was incomprehensible to him how a Bishop could proceed without examination en the articles. The question was then put, and agreed to without a division. Lord DACRE said, that after what had passed he begged to withdraw his motion for an address to the Crown, and substitute that the Petition be referred to a Committee, to consider the matter thereof. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that after what he had already expressed, he should detain the House no longer than to say, that he would not consent to this motion. Lord CARNARVON complained that none of the Learned and Rev. Prelates had by word or gesture given them to and d whether they assented to the doc trines of their Learned and Rev. Colleague whose con duct bad been the subject of discussion. They had all come down to discharge some important duty evidently, but what that was, whether to assent or dissent, no oue bad been able to divine. He confessed that even these learned persons had not deigned to enlighten the aub ket with some portion of their erudition and talents; be was entirely at a loss to know how to vote. It was for subjects of this kind in which so many dark and ab struse details were involved that those Learned and Rev. Persons were placed amongst them in that House; and bow their timid silence was to be accounted for on the present occasion he knew not. He hoped that what he bad said would induce some of that Learned and Rev. Body to rescue itself from what he most call the shame of such inactive and timid conduct. On the question that the Petition be referred to a Committee, the House divided.—Coatents 19; Non-Con tents, 38; Majority, 39. MARRIAGE ACT AMENDMENT SILL. After a few words in conversation from Lord Ellen borough, the Earl of Liverpool, and the Lord Chancel lor, this Bill was read a third time t and ordered to be committed on Wednesday. Their Lordships adjourned a little after nine o'clock 30USE OF COMMONS. Mr. MASON from the East India House, presented cer tain Resolutions of the Court of Directors respecting the Salaries of the Officers of the Company.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. BLACKBURN presented 1" petitions iron) Lancashire against the Licensing Bill.—Ordered to lie on the table. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR postponed until the 26th instant, his motion respecting the Practice of the Court of Chancery. BREACH OP PRIVILRGE. Mr. EGERTON presented a petition from Chester against the Licensing Bill. On the question being put that the petition be brought up. Mr. BERNAL said, be took that opportunity to cor rect a misrepresentation which bad found its way into some of the Newspapers, as to what be had said respect ing the Bill in question. It was stated that had said there were no abuses whatever under the present system. tie had never said so.—He bad merely said that a distinc• lion ought to be drawn between the town and the coun try brewer. Upon general principles he highly ap proved of the Bill, and should give it his hearty support. The SPEAKER enquired whether the Hon. Member intended to submit any motion in consequence of the Breach of Privilege he had just noticed. Mr. BERNAL answered in the negative; and the petition was then brought up, read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. AGAR ELLIS presented petitions from the wholesale Spirit Dealers of Kinsale and Waterford, against the present distillation laws.—Ordered to Be on the table. Sir ULYSSES BURGH presented a petition from certain Landowners and Merchants of Carlo), engaged in the butter trade, praying for protection duties on the Importation of that article.—Ordered to lie on tbe table. The same lion. Member presented certain returns ft 'a l the Ordnance Office, relative to the salaries of the Of ficers of that department. Ordered to lie on the table, and be printed. Mr. BY NU presented a petition from the Rector and Churchwardens of the Parish of St. George in the East, against the Iron Coffin Bill.—Ordered to lie' on the table. The Middlesex County Treasurer's BiV was read a se cond time, and committed. Mr. CURWES moved for an account of the number of gallons of spirits distilled from Corn in Ireland in each year from the year ISIS to the present time — and a similar account respecting Scotch spirits.—Or dered. Gen. GASCOYNE presented a petition from au Indi vidual, against the Annnitv Memortal Indemnity Bill. — Ordered to lie on the table. COURT OF CHANCRRT. A eon aaaaa tion tool; place between Mr. Wetherell anti Mr. M. A. Taylor, as to the object of the latter, in the too ion o: which be had given notice respecting the of the Court of Chancery. Mr. TAYLOR said, he intended to move for a Com mittee to consider the provisions of the Bill creating the Vice-Chancellor's Court; and if the house should adopt the motion, he intended to propose a Legislative measure to limit the jorisdiction of that Court. Mr. DA SUN moved for 'm address to the Crown for *Copy of the Report of the cominissiooers appointed to inquire into the Salaries and Duties of the Officers of Courts in Scetland.—Ordered. The Bakers' Regulation Bill went through a Commit tee, on the motion of Mr. C —The Report was •rdered to be received on Monday. Mr. KENNEDY postponed the second reading of the Scotch Juries Bill until the 17th instant. lAN. Lord U. BERESFORD presented a Petition from Waterford, praying for a further protection of the Butter Trade. Sir N. COLTHURST postponed his motion for a t o - tteeon the Butter Trade, until Friday nest. Mr. BENET 1' (of Wiltshire) presented a Petitiot: from tertian Farmers of Salisbury, for the repeal of the Leather Tae.—Ordered to be printed. A Message from the Lords here announced their Lord. ships' Assent to . I Bills. Mr. CALCRAFT begged to call the attention of the ' Attornevkleneral to certain returns, which were last year ordered by the House, respecting the business t r ansacted by the Court of Chancery. The order had been complied with after the lapse of a considerable time; but the remit had been imperfectly made out. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he would make it business to enquire into the circumstance. He believed the neglect was not intentional. After a fete words from Mr. Wt es, Mr. ABERCROM RIE. MY. M. A. TIVLOR, and from the ATTORNEY-GENE. RAI.. in tEplan3tinn, The ATTORNEV•GENERAL presented Petitions frcim certain Officers of the Court of Exchequer, pray. ing for etempensation in consequence of the loss of their fees by the Recognizance Bill—Ordered to he on the table. Mr. BEAUMONT presented a Petition from certain Dwitera and °enviers of Land in Northumberland praying for relief against a grievance they suffered an tler the Horse'Taa. The lion. Member said, be was happy to observe that his Majesty's Guvernment intend ed to afford relief to all persons suffering under the in convenience.—Ordered.to lie on the table. Sir T. ACLASO presented two petitions from De vonshire complaining of agricultural distress.—Ordcr. ed to lie on the table. YORKSHIRE P LLS HILL. Mr. WYNN moved the second reading of the York shire Polls Regulation Bill. 3:r. CHALIMNEII opposed the Bill. It arose, lie thought. out of the fancy of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and was not called for by the county. it tended to le price the electors of a considerable portion of their elec tive franchise, and lie was not aware of any crime they had committed to deserve that punishment. He moved, as an amendment, that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. • Mr. RANISOEN seconded the amendment. The Bill, lie said. was opposed to the wishes of the coon- Itv, which had expressed its opinion through the Grand Jury. Mr. WILBERFORCE opposed the Bill. Ile thought it would take away much of the weight and influence of the great and wealthy county of York. Mr. WYNN supported the Bill. lie denied that it would have the effect stated by the Hon. Member. It was, he contended, a necessary consequence of the Bill, which gave to Yorkshire the right of sending two addi tional Members to that House. The object of the Bill was to prevent the immense expence attending contested elections for the county. That expence had sometimes been as much as 100,0001. a side., without the payment of a single shilling for an illegal purpose. There were no fewer tlrau 13,000 freeholders, who polled at the last contest, from the West Riding only. lie thought the Grand Jury had entered into a subject foreign from their duty when they pronounced an opinion on this Bill. He had, however, nu wish to press the Bill, if the house should appear disinclined to encourage it. Mr. CHALLONER explained. Lord NOR MANBY opposed the Bill. In the county to which the Bill related he knew there was a general indifference felt towards it, and some cases of strong objection. Lord 110THAM contended that the Bill would be beneficial to the county of York, and denied that they bad any reason to believe that the county was to it. Mr. RAMSDEN explained. Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that if he could feel that this' Bill would be for the advantage of the county, he owed it a debt that he could never repay, and he should there fore be most ready to support tncb a measure. But he believed that it would be a positive injury to the landed proprietors of the West Riding, and he should there fore oppose it. Lord HOTHAM explained. Admiral SOTHERON considered that it would be for the benefit of all parties that the county should be kept entire. Sir. DENISON opposed the Bill. Mr. I)UNGOMBE made a few observations on the same side. Mr. S. SUMNER thought the West Riding ought not to be allowed to rids over the North and East Ridings. The House then divided—For the second reading, 27 —Against it, 59—Majority against the Bill, 32. Upon our re-admission to the gallery a conversation was going forward, in which Mr. S. Rice, Mr. (Joni burn, Mr. Plunkett. and Sir J. Newport took part. Its but the of e subd relnd ec a tre . lated to the portchar w g e e s c a o g u a l d i against not col l ect, C hi fB e An Hon.Matainse. whose name we could notascertain, wished to ask whether it was the intention of his Ma jesty's Ministers to make any alteration in the duties upon East India sugar ? The CHANCENI.OR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the subject was under the consideration of Govern ment, but he could not say what course would be pur sued. He thought it most likely that the duties would remain as they were. Mr. GRENFELL put a question relative to the Bank Charter, which we could not hear. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER replied, that lie could etd say at what time the lloverninent would propose a renewal of the Bank Charter, or whe ther it would be done in this Session or cot. CONSTABLES IN MILANO Will.. Mr. GOULBURN rose to move the second reading of this Bill. lie pointed out the state of the Police with regard to the appointment of Constables, and 'showed' its defects. He also alluded to the difficulties of arrest ing persons in Ireland, which could seldom be effected with the concurrence or without the opposition of the, population. From these causes, to be efficient in his office, a constable ought to devote his whole time to its' ditties. The Grand Juries who now appointed them could not grant such salaries as would enable them to do so, and in consequence the office of constable had fallen into a state which it was most desirable to avoid. If they wished to make the people of Ireland respect the law, they must endeavour to ensure its administration with effect. The means of accomplishing this, he was about to propose to the House. Ile was aware that lie might he met nit!, the objection that it was against the principles of the Constitution to vest such a power in the hands of the Government as the appointment of these constables. But he thought the first constitutional duty of every wan was to enforce the observance of the laws. The appointment of the chief constable of a barony was no new power in the hands of Government. Several previous acts had authorised this, and the object now in view fully authorised them in extending the power to the common constables. He should prope.,e by the Bill that the ditties of a constable should be limited to the maintenance of the peace, under the directions of the Magistrates. He knew that the House bad not always mat what it expected from the Magistracy of Ireland, but he thought the present measure would remove one of the difficulties which prevented their acting with that effidency which rendered a Magistracy respectable.— The House was aware that there were extraordinary " measures of police is,ste io operation, which bad been attended with the most happy results; and he did not wean to imply any thing unfavourable to those measures when he proposed others, which he considered would operate as a preventive, instead of a remedy for outrage. % arious Petitions were to be found upon their Journals, pointing uut, in.much stronger terms than he presnuaed to use, the defects of the police in Ireland. One ' 4 4 ' these, f the county of Oalway, also alluded to the means by which they were to be removed. lie thought DO man wonl.l object to the propos:tion that an effective police in Ireland was desirable. lir proposed this mea sure to the House as the opening of a new er a f or that country. By it he hoped to prevent the necessity of keeping op the large military establishment there, and of eitildityine military foree upon all occasions, , s ki c h it was so desirable to avoid unless in cataPS of irell myth's). With these tints he consdentiv propraea th e to•cond reading of the Bill. Sir 11. PARNELL thought that unless the Right Hon. Gentiesnau could find the means of constaot com munication between the counties and the Govern:ow, his plan of police would not be snecessful. Ilecontendel that the Bight Hon. liontletnan had no: fairly ileserdo4 the defective state of the Magistracy of Ireland. - The number of improper persons in the Magistrue nos so great that to intrust to them the d•rection of time con stables wai likely to bring the law into still greater dis doraerlusoliflyeteyhntale:lesoallarevaagr:esilmttLhisAel respect. Ile thought the Uovernineut ought to rake opon themselves the task. they ought to take the resuin blotto( r e ti f in o o tit: hoped nin not pt t e h m e ofa Magistracy. ngye,t thiun l' i:t o tt ill tr P a 9 g h e e s they being themselves landholders. Another etiluf the defective Police was the injury it did to gab* credit, owing to the general distrust in the administration of the law. The industrious man could not get the re r mt he deserved, beimuse.every ones was afraid of g redress in case of fraud. Thus the capital of the try could not be employed in the most .ilvantaz-,us channels. It appeared to him that the remedy uitica the Right Honourable Gentleman meant to propose Was the establishment of constables armed. mounted, and se more& in every respect resembling the French polirr. He thought the hest watts would be those of removing the powers which Grand Juries !posses-441, and placire them in the hands of Magistrates, as in England, tied appointing constitutional constables. Ile should bar no objection to the latter being assisted be inch Oleo's as the night lion. Gentleman proposed. it these alter lotions were made in the Bill he should be disposed to support it. He contended that the removal of sbe pre- sent constables and the introduction of these artued OUR would be likely•to disgust resident Gentlemen, and make them become absentees. Another gronud of objection to the measure was the expense which it would incur. This would fall upon the uuentice, and it seould amount to about 4,0001. a-year for each, and they now paid only about SOW. far the maintenance of ail their con , taides. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman would comen: to send the Bill to a Committee above stairs. Mr. PLUNKETT said that with respect to the gene ral principle of the measure, there could be no gaffer ence of optuion. He had conversed with many Gentle men acquainted with the state of Ireland, and lie never found any one of them deny the necessity of amenaing the state of the police in that country. His Right lion. Friend (Sir 11. Parnell) had, with a great share of now dour, admitted that necessity, but he regretted to find that lie was not inclined to agree to the proposition now before the house. The system of police in Ireland, ur rather the want of system, was miserably defectiveitt every sense. It was sought by the present measure tv amend it, and establish a system which would nut only abolish crime, but teml to procure ohedieuce to the laws: —(Hear.)—His lion. Friend had talked of it as a mea sure incompatible with constitutional principles. Ile could not brag himself to view it in that light. It net. thew made ewer Mese% new lam, nor new modes °fps nish:nent. The only altered - on that was intended went to take the appointment of county othcers from the Grand Jury, and place it in the hands of the Crown. It was mot unconstitutional that the Crown, which was the *tangelo of the Executive, should have the nomination of its own officers...4liter, bear.) —Nothing could bare been more unfortunate for the preservation of the year of a county than the mode of leaving to the brand Juries the appointment of constables. It only gave the power tet each Juror of providing for a meritorious servant or sem dependent; and among twenty-four Members tie responsibility Was so divided, that to no person could 1.- attached the odium of an improper nomination. appointment by the Lord Lieutenant was more likely tv be free from those ill conseque nces. It was p ossibil that he might be imposed upon by improper recornme dation ; but still the Bill provided a remedy in that case by monthly returns. The measure, as one of economy, was to be recommended ; the whole expense would sr pear to amount to little more than the cost of the v omit system. There were 230 baronies in Ireland: Head Constable to each, at a salary of 1301. a yea - . were • -C3. ?,5 1 " Other Constables at 35!. aim each • 17.5 1 " Four Inspectors at 500/. a-y ear each 2, 0 f" NA Ten Police Magistrates , at 11001 a-year each The expense of the present system was, of the General Police - - - 23,901 The Extra Police - - - 1i[2,113 - all': The Revenue Police - - Military assistance - - - 21,5: 0 Though tbere was a difference of 40,0001. in e‘• pease, there would be more than that of va lue save ;R amending the morals of the people. He trusted the there would not be a necessity of making the Hill a pv petual measure, as he would gladly h ail the time when i; could be dispensed with. Sir E. KhRRISON supported the Hilt Sir H. PARNEL explained. General HART, in a low tone of voice, made some i n PN' servations relative to the conduct o f Magistrates, whir we could not collect. Mr. S. RICE opposed the measure. He said It ws4 3 proposition of a most monstrous nature, unsuited the character of the Irish people. It would have t!'; effect of turning public opinion from the law, instead VI bringing . it in its favour. He was convinced, that i. the Magistracy of Ireland were purged from the dro-s in which they were now confined, that they welt" under the present law, be equal to support the tr.e • trinity of the country. In the County of Lengron. the eificacv of a superior and intelligent M ag i s tracy n. , evident. There was, in that county, but one 313gistrs'e to an extent of 25 square miles, and 5,000 inhabit , s ot.., In the counties of Limerick and Tipperary, there it , a Magistrate to ;1 square miles, and to Dee inhabit ants. Ile called on the Government to purify the bo q te of Magistrates, as the m ost certain made to effect t most p re servation of order. 'f iii' jinn. Gentleman allideil the authority of the Right Him. Gentleman oppelite (we believe .!r. Peel) against the Gill. On hat forpre me debate, that Right Hon. Gentl emen said, ... ta at sent, when the district ceased to be disturbed, the P' lice establishment was chanted,but that if it should rO, heroine permanent, it would degenerate into loe• The present Bill, as e mbed t to make the police et blishment permanent, ,he was convinced. he i''' I ductive of the pernicious effect which the Right 10 Gentleman then apprehended. Sir J. NEWPOR'r hoped the House would pros with deliberation, and before they adopted this wesog: look at the efforts made in the county of beeO rd a v , eleewliere to effect a Reform, and to deterring?. ty - these seemed on the point of being croweied wit 11 ` [ real, whether this was the time to adopt a total c 814 V ~'. ~.~ h _-_..J.