The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1803-05-21 00:00:00

F -: _' •. • *tore speedily completing the sh t i king dom. Col. PORTER suggested (if we isasterstood him l io n) t h at t here were some socktleawhich interfered sisith - the recruiting of the Mdltia. The SECRETARY at WAR observed, that there were wipe of those societies of a friendly &t -rue, and tending to aford accommodation, which t he Government did not even wish to interfore with. Ilaving forborne to enter into the minutia of the de tail, he observed, that he had nAgl&Eted a power meant to be given to the deputy lie tenants, of exa mining everally, upon bath, all persons enrolling themselves as to their parish, usual place of residence, the number of their families, whetli,:r they had ever belonged to the navy, or to any other regiments, Sre ize. which he conceived to be a very necessary power that they did not possess before. Me. WINDUAM said, he should not, on the present occasion, renew the arguments which he bet%Tre urged against the whole of ibis Militia sys tem, though they were strengthened by the disposi tion which seemed to prevail, of carrying it to a still greater and more nnprecelented extent. He meant, however, to objeB to the oaths that were to be pre scnhed, as the multiplication of them never served to any useful purpose. If there was perjury preva lent in the kingdom, the multiplying of oaths nsight encourage, bat not diminish that perjury. It was a thing that increased as it went on, and was bk . sine of those parts in the human order which were sail to be strengthened by exercise. Bills of this kind were like binding up ghoty joints by the gature of 0.. th,, the m,,st ineffectual that could be concivei, and such as, in his opinion, ought not to be resorted to. lie could never assent to more oaths than weie .necessary, and if they wished for a punishmeir, they might attach the pehalty of per jury to a false declaration. Sir ROBERT BUXTON said, he was so far from being of the same opinion, that be meant to suggest an ..her oath, which was, that all persons should be obliged precisely to swear to his parish, and the place where he resided at the time. Sir W. ELFORD thought the lists should be placed on the church doors, with the desc, iptions of the parties. He had himself, as deputy-lieutenant, atten,led five mc.:tings to fill up one vacancy, when all the parishitiners excused themselves under some pretence or other. The SECRE I TARY at WAR. said, that provi sion was made to that effcst. He saw no reason envy recruits. for the Mill i e should ant. L suhjeaed to these oaths, when oaths of a similar nature were te:iuired from all recruits in the army. Leave was then given to bring iu the THE N EGOTI >N• Lord IIAWKESDURY, in pursuance of Cie or der of the House, made on the night !1...f0ie, pre sented certain papers relating to the ads of violence committed by ranee against the stihjeCts ef this tout y. Its doing this, he said, he could nut an swer that these p :pars contained all th grievances we had to complaiu of, as some of the memorials were given in at other places, and had not yet reach ed this country ; what was now presented, however, re observed, would answer every purpose, and he certaiuly could have no wish to withhold anv ;dur =ation on the suhica from the House. Thew were produced in conformity to the Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. ( 4.1' first motion yesterday ; but in respect to what was said in regard to a memorial, he must state. that no nierecirial on the subjed was trans mito.h.i to Lord Whitworth, but instruthons were sent him in the manner in which he was to conduit the conversation which he must necepsarily hate had, upon that point, with the Ministers of the French ltepublie. He had no objection to the produflion of this dispatch, hut he wished the House to be aware shat there was in absolute memorial. Mr. GRF.Y moved, that the papers now pre vacs' be printed, and could not suppose the Noble L o rd would have any objedion to it. lie made no doubt, but he produced all the documents that be had it in has power to do, and they were pro bably enough to dired that House in such a man ner. as to enable them to form a correct judgment. If any further intelligence arrived, he was very willin g ; to trust to the candour of the Noble Lord, that it would be comniunicated. As to th 2 dis patch alluded to, which was said to contain no remonstrance, he cool,: not but suppose, that it' related to the entrauce of French troops into Hol land. Bat tie was of rpinion, that something still was wanting. Lord ‘Vliitworth, of course. must have ()be:red the instrudions which lie r;ceived front hi s c ourt ; nati the information h.fure the House was, in his judgment, too much confined to verbal Communications. Some matters of importance had eel tainly passed between th: Secretary of Stat. 2 imd the French Ambassador in London, which it would be necessary for the Hou,e to be acquaiated with. At present, the House knew nothing but what was transadAl by Lord Whitworth; the conversations and discussions between the Secretaq of State and the Ambassador Andreossi might, as well as any thing else, be put ilao a narrative and laid hefoie the House. He could not imagine that on a subjeet of so much importance the '.uok Lord trusted to his memory ; but roust have made some kind of record of it. He wrr,id sap use, fur instance, that the Legislative liody in France had, which God imows," said Iw, " they have not," the powet of Investigating and discussing, as fort:mat - 0y the Par liament of this count' y had, he would ask whether they would consider thei rinforinaion as complete,. if confined to what passed betwe en the Secretaey o f !State and the Fiend* Ambassador in this country. There would trnsluesticniably be a great deiicienc,yif thew were not informed what passed between Lord Whitworth and tkir ()all Government. Yet the ritiyh Parlilment vras now in the preiicament that the French laegishieure must be in the case he men tioned, and .he therefore hoped that some means would be Nowt to coininunicate what passed be tween thc Noble Lord and the Frewch Ambassador, sus he could matte no doubt of its having been fe duceetto Shfrie Uffieidi record. Lord HAVAIiiiIURY.—" The prnposal now made by the. lion. Gentlemisn, if acceded to, would be quite new in its nature. The conversations held With Gen. Andtiossi related only to insulated points, and held merely till matters of explanation. The mail* points of use. negotiations have been all along Conduded at Pans, wlikh was the slat ofqt.SC U ibibri, and ~ n..n any reiped rest beiWeetrigne mid the French Atrdrassaaor. %Khat_the Hots. Geatleman pro pOset.l tidy felatei tb whit are called fittitettttid itiq l g different place!, eft hag .. -‘l 6 a a. jestyi 'fasten have oil this occas i on Itidlut n° . 1,1 ' avoided, :is bang not sa• dam "nay tn"v pro- '1 • r, --~ - . • - • • dive of confusion. On this neettitHaeon -litany • propositions' have been made at Parsi',!wliiih . were not at all communicated to the Frlnecli Arabes sector in this caonry, and can only he knoWn in a formal manner by the dispatches of Lord Whit - - worth." • - Mr. GREY observed, that the statens eet of the Noble Lord last night was, that ha. wrttteh represen tations had been made here, but to ellablq . the /louse to form a proper judgment ; it shnald also be in possessiol; of every verbal representations.. 1)r. LAURENCE said, that he acknowledged the H. Ise had no right to eve& a commonic,nion of every contingent and subordinate point that might have oc:urred, hut it was ne:-e.sary to know, '.shat had not yet appeaml, whether the evactation of Holland was or was not made a leading piet ~t the ultimatum of our Government ? This, he sa;d, was by no means an insulated point ; but, in hi , opinion, the most important of them all. Nethine could be more interesting to the united kingdom, than the question whether Holland should be inde- Fndent and free, or rendered a mari:i me province of rance, to enable it the more effedually to attack us. Mr. SHERIDAN represented, that if the pagers now presented were published, it would be right that the House should have time maturely to consi der of them, and compare them with that mass of documents which had not been in the hands of many Members before this day. He admitted that it was proper'for the liouse - to come to a decision on this subjed, but it w.ts also highly expedient that they should not proceed with prectpitation. He hoped, therefore, that the Noble Lord would not °bled to the consideration being deferred ti:l Wednesday next, and the more so, as an lion. General proposed to move for some other important papers this day. If these should be granted, neither they nor the present comniunication could be printed before to morrow. There was, however, another point, in which he could not think the Ministers could objet to afford some information. It was strongly ru moured, that Mr. Talbot had adtually left Paris, and that M. Portalis, the Secretary to the French Embassy, had quitted London. Upon this stibjed he hoped the House would receive some expla nation. • Lord lIAWKESBURY- 44 I have'no objection whatever to give the explanation called for ; Go vernment has received nu authentic information that Mr. Talbot has yet set eint from Paris; nor do I know that M. Portelis has left Londoe : and, as to the rumours alluded to by the Hon. Gentlenein, they are without any foundation whatever. With meant to the delay proposed by the Hon. Gentle man; I in not convinced that lie bans laid dosva a sufficient ground kr my consenting to it, unless I hear wine stroneer' reasons alledged. The papers now presented, s ilo not Contain any new filaS rela tive to the subjcd, only of Malta and Louisiana, which, though not officially on the tel;lc before, has been for some time sufficiently known to the House and the public. Mr. CANNING declared, that he felt a great ob jeCtion to the consideration of this subjed being de ferred beyond Monday next. Any additional pa pers that may be required would only enable' the House to judge more accurately as to the propriety of the condua of his Majeety's Miitisters. Any per son that perused - the papers on the table, must from•theni be convinced that this country was ag grieved, and had a right to complain of the agemes mons of France; any thing more would only facili tate their ulterior determination as to the condua of *Ministers ; but he feared that any further delay might induce the enemy to suppose there was any hesitation to resent on the part of this country. The papers were then ordered to be printed. Mr. WHITBREAD, though it might appear somewhat irregidar, hoped the importance of the subjed would justify his asking his Majesty's Mi nisters whether any communication was made by the French Government since the departure of Lord Whitwuith from Paris. Lord HAWKESBURY." All the comniuni cation received by Government was only in the shape of an unofficial notice, and his Majesty's Mi nisters would not think themselves justified in laying before Parliament any proposition made in that war." Mr. WHITBREAD wished to know whether there was any communication of a substantial na ture, as the I louse ought, in his opinion, to be in pos session of it whether it was official or not. Lord I lAW ES KU R Y—" If the Government had received any official notice regularly signed, so as to render them authentic, I should not have the slightest . objelion to communicate it. All that reached our hands was a proposition through an ir regular and circuitous channel, the terms of which were inadmissible, and by no means altered the state of the case. It was not in fad such as this country could accede to, even if regularly delivered, consist ent with its good faith, and a view to its essential interests." Lord TEMPLE raid, he rose also to put a ques tion to•Miiiii!ers which he thought it necessary the House should be informed of. It was this, whether Mr. Talbot was left in Paris for the purpose of continuing the negotiation, aird whether :NI. Porta lis remained heft for the same purpose ? He could , not conceive that they staid merely for domestic purposes, as it was not the duty of Secretaries to' Ambassadors to be left behind only to pack up the gads and pay.* bills of ;heir principals. Lord HAW'tESBUIIY.—. , I have no hesita tion in staing that the Secretaries aid not remain for the purpose of cott:iuning the negotinfions. Mr. Talbot was left in Paris only to take care of the pa siers of the embassy, and protea those English who had no:. time • (o leave Pasts." Mr. GREY considered the vend communication • referredto by the Null. Lard as necessary to be communicated, even thertigh not official. It was of great initkirtance to know *liether these ;c cis; irre gularly' ottered, were' ibadniiisibk or not. • It was sai'd in. aiotfier place (we believe the House of Lards) that the Oroposition was a ceniretoj?'l of the ' French Government, which might contain very sub ! itantitil iiifik"natl(a. HA could see no good reason for withhoiliog it from the House,- merely on the ! grotind Of ifol•frialitl. Whit he now reittured Was already Brit* in the eornmenceiraitt of the last *ar. i M. Clinitrvitiiri sans 'levet' acknowledgtri iii' tfiii coitn try to have been duly accredited a iri liiiibittidor at ter the irovnratiOn el the French Republic,, and yet ! the contattatiCatierk• beeweekt hint and Lord' Caen ! vile we* eeßetiirk hid before both Houses of Parharttent. He contelieethat be could see nu ad vantage in elpedithrif the decision of the House, which 4:twist Ise comiratertillitirtitlit a f I mature' de. liberation, and svas therefore sorry that Mr. Sheri dAt's suggestion had not been acr•t%•• It Was right for th e H o u se t o deterinine-w thstr our cause was just before we were irrevocably involved i, for, whether we had the justice on our' side of - not, if once engaged in war, there was no British subjeel who would not give his best 4ssiAaniie ip the coullikit with a (ktazerous and powerful enerily... Our cause of varrel may b e even j ust , an d s till Might perhaps be . . less than the I Joust was yet aware of. Insults were 91 that nature which might .he done away by subse quent etplanation. It viduld'he too much to is. sumo 1114 we hail a just cause of war, merely from the first statement of the Ministers. Things often wore a different aspea, when viewed through dif ferent mediums ; and though he-could perceive no harm in a short deny, the House must be aware that there may be much in aaing with precipitancy. The House, he thought, shoUld pause, before it iavolve.l the nation in hostilities. Means may still possibly be open for accommodation, and the French Papers, which arrivA this d ty, annqtraced tint the Emper6r of Russia had offered his meJiation in these disputes. Lord HAWKESBURY—gg Though I cannot conceive that the pmposition alluded - to can he for mally laid before the House, yet being desirous to afford every information that may be thought ad vis4ble by the House, I shall not objett to explain what was the nature' of the proposition altuded to. The House must,in the first instAnce, consider, that !•"-- F. there might he proposals and communications brought in such a circuitous and informal manner, 'we cannot state it as coming from the French Go vernment, though there might he grounds of an in- ternal conviCtion, that it was authorised by them. lu.such a case I should think myself justifiable in communicating the name of the author, without previously consulting others as to its propriety. The substance and mlnner of the proposition was as follows :--At the time that Lord Whit \ th was un his journey from Paris, he re curred, in an unofficial. manner, laying down_an arrangement, by which it was to he agreed, that this country should continue for a certain number of years in possession of Malta, provided the French, in the mean time, should occupy Tarentum, and the cas tle of:Otranto, which would render them cJmplete masters of the Guiph of Venice. This offered no ad vantage that could satisfy the fair and just demands of this country, and I therefore make no doubt but the House will think that the offer, even if official, was by any means admissible. In respect to what has Leen alluded to regarding the mediation of the Emperor of Russia ;it is true, that the last mo ments of the negotiations a messenger from the Court of Petersburgh arrived at Paris, the contents of whose dispatches were, that though the Empe ror of Russia did not wish to int,n-tere in the dif ferences between England and France, he would not, if necessary, wi,hhold his mediation. But as this dispatch did not otiose, on the part of the Em peror, to bring the negotiations to any distill& point, and might be produdive of a very injurious delay, it did not alter the determination of the British Cabinet. I should have no objection to communicate all that came to our hands conneaed with this stibjea, but 1 should wish for time to con sult with others on its propriety in point of form. Mr. SHERIDAN thought it was important to know what was the answer given to Lord Whit worth's memorial relative to the evacuation of Lord HAWK ESBURY.-- ,, I already stated that Lord Whitworth presented no absolute memorial on that subject, as none was transwitted to him. All that had been sent was confined to instruCtions in what manner he was to conduit the conversation and discussions which must unavoidably take place upon that subjea." Mr. SHERIDAN observed, that if there were re monstrances on the part of the British Ambassador to the First Consul, they must have produced some kind of answer ; they either must have been regard ed or not ; and in either case the House was entitled to have all possible information► Mr. CANNING regretted his having been absent last night, when the conversation took 'place upon the stiojeCt of the papers relative to the Negotiaion. What he rose for was this—he wished to ask whether any formal answer had been given by the French Government as to the continuance of the French army in Holland, in defiance of the wishes of the people in that country, and of the terms of the Treaty of Amiens ? Lord HAW Ii.ESKTRY said, he had no di:Eculty in stating, that no formal remonstrance had been made, neither had any formal answer been r2turn ed. There had been communications, but they evinced no disposition to give satisfaction with regard fo the essential points in dispute, and in fad they appeared to his Majesty's Government only to have been made with a view to •gais tune. 'they were certainly nok such communications as his Majesty's Ministers conceived it would have become them to have laid before the House. Mr. SHF.RI DAN observed, that his only wish upon the subjea WAS to know in what Manner any communication' to the .French Government, on the part of Lord Niv - nitworth, had been received. He moved that an humble Address should be presented • to his Majesty, praying that.he would be graciously ',leased to dtrea there should be laid before the • house any accounts received from Lord Whitworth respelling the reception of his representations by the French Government on the subjeas of the troops not having been withdrawn from the Lianavian Go- Vernment." The CLIANCF.LLOR. of the EXCHEQUER , said, he should hope the Hon. gentleman would not press the subj:!a at present: If, upon inquiry, it should appear that there were any documents that were pmdteeable, they should cer:ainly be laid betbre the House on Monday. He desired the lista Gentleman would not imagine that this sub. jell had not been distinaly inquired into. It swat not to Ire understood, that bedause there had been no inforrnation from Lord Whitworth,. his Majesty's Ministers were wholly destitute of information. His Majesty h-ad a Minister at the Hague, from %dime: he received communioations ; and his Majesty's Government, through the medium of that Minister,• had reeeive.k the strongest instances, from time to time, than the( k'retteh troops would be withdrawn from Holland. They had received such assurances evetr up to the period When those circumstances had taken: pled whidt had produced the renewal of hos tilities. }le stated this, not to prevent airy. papers from better moved: for, but to prevent a surmise on the part of the Hun. Gentleman, or the Howse, that thn only channel . of information wag bets lain ... Majesiy and the French Governmeht. He had hie fihr stated, that.theee had been a strong and urgent communication nude on ,the part of the Batavia:2 • Government w the French Government, and the latter lead given this coudtry the most positive ari...• sur.:nces, that dip, French troops would be with,. drawn. If the Lion. Gentleman would, abstain front pressing his.motion, he could assure hint.. ir•there • was any document that was likely to satisfy him or the Howe, it should be laid upon the table on Moi?day.• • Mr. SHAre.d.DAN said, tharafter what had fallen iron! the a. 4; 'tailor of the Exchequer, he should not press hie toolien, but his observations furnished additional reasons for-delay. Lord H !kW KESBIJ RY repeated his ohjeftion to • delayhaeohe di:cussion of this importaat subjea ; the la 4 Avaspr.u:tair what he had.steted, anat there was a seagoiess .: ort the part of the. )tench Govern ment to entiter, Upon , any dh.eiisiion, ands total dit inclinatioe tolgaysogeatisfeLqion. . Mr. SHE DA,. thought quasi ion - would come more fully before Parliament if it was deterred till Wednesday, Mr. GIIEX urges the propriety of granting.the . papers moved ler by Mr. Sheridan. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCI4EQUER • said, he should certainly objea. to the tirodh(qii4Coli i papers relative to matters hativeen the l)treli French ; he thought they otiglit not to be called. for. Mr. GREY remarked, that the .rnotient of hit • Hon. Friend was founded on'the• representation of ' Mr. Liston. • Mr. CANNtNG 'thought, that it was due to Par liament to chew, that the forbearance of his Ma: jesty's Ministers was upon the faith of the assur- • ances of the French Government.. Mr. JOHNSON requested, that a note of the • 4th May, transmitted in answer to our ultimatum, might be laid before the House. Lord HAWKESBURY slid, a distin& proposi tion was made at the time by the French, that they should garrison Malta, which was rtieited: He had every reason to beliere; that the sate principle which governed Russia, still prevailed. Ha wished Gen.:. demen would previously give .notice of motions of this sort, as it avasoecessary sometimes to consult the Ministers of Courts in amity with the British Government. •• General G A?COIGN F, rose to make the motion of . which he had given notice. The papers he meant to move for were of a nature that had at reference to a period anterior to the Treaty of Arhiens, yet they were so conneged with others 6llbteqtr.nt to it, that unless they were viewed with . •thent, the cousi- . deration of the latter would be partialend incom plete. He had four motions to submit; the first. was, for For a copy of all representations atet.remonstrantes made to his MaOlsty's Mini-ten, °tithe vett of thn.Ma tote, he:wean the/ lit id' October, 101., aid toe last day of March, 1802: with the answer thereto; together :with. Copies of the Maoif:stoes of Col. Graham, distributed by him throughout the island. Copies o;"such reinewentations as had been made onthe part of the British Government. to the First COWltti. on theanittota tion of Piedmont to France: To thdie motions he thought 'there .Could be no objeition. • Copies of all ostlers and counter.oolets sent tc ayvemnrs of islands and settlements in the ikeit lndie, relative to the evacuation of the same. The utility of this motion was to enable the House to compare the dates with 'the dates of the papers before the House, in order to set whether there were not the same grounds for retaining those islands arid settlements as Malta. If his Majesty's , Ministers had reason to think the peace sdoold not have been permanent, as some of his table friendi had suggest ed, the same inducement which actuated theth with regard to Malta, must have existed as td other places. The next motion was • ' For a copy of the information of Mr. Lister; res:ißing army in Batavia, and any reinonstrancei.. on account of Freniast. troops in Holland. • The first Motion was put: Lord HAWKESI3URY said, he had no ob jeaion with respect to one Of the *lotions, namely,' - theaarders given to the Governors of. the IVe-t la dies. As to the restitution of the colonies, it was in- *. formationvery proper to be given, and . he had not, the least desire to withold it. With regard to the others he felt different. • As to the motion with re gard to the Maltese, he conceived no parliamentary ground whatever. If information was to be called for respeaing what happened antecedent to the Treaty of Amiens; he did not :now where it would end. As it was supposed that a remonstrance had been made on the part of the Maltese inhabitants to his Majesty's 'Ministers, he would observe, that a letter was sent to his Majesty's Secretary of State, expressing their satitfadion of the conduit of his Majesty's Government towards them. They stated, that they could have wished to have lived under his Majesty's Government ; but if that was impossible, they would be satisfied with any arrangement made by his Majesty. The Right Hon. Gentleman read a letter from the Maltese Deputies to Lind Hobart. It expressed their wanne s t thanks fur what the British Government had done for them, that they were not ignorant en; the obstqcitt to tire island being under the prixeition of his .Majeety —that the island was worthy the.magnantrhityf of the British nnion, but that, :is they could dot have the honor of belonging to.his Majesty, they mould not cease to shew their gratitude for what he had done for them, and would state to posterity, that without his assistance their ruin would have been inevitable. —This was a paper delivered after the conclusiort of the Definitive Treaty. While the Depaties were here they were list ned to with attenticn. The oh jedion to the present mattzr was, that no parlia mentary grotind had been laid for consenting to it. With regard to tho.lhse motion. it whs hole more than a repetition of the one that was made last night.. After the discusaioa it underwent, he thought it unnecessary to say any thing further. ' To all the motions, except that fele/lag to the Orders to the Governors in the West Indies, he should ob jet, and should move the previuus question on them. Gaterat GASCOIGNE Said he bad another , motion to stibmih—it was 6!tr a copy of all commis-, nicatums with the• lEjag of Naples, relii.ve to the . cession of Lanspeciosat . Mr. Wii.V.DliA.4 contended pea-tan:ken tart grounds inni .been Lid before the- House tor the motion. Enough had been said to prove the cessity of inquiry ?repotting the cinnoroniiatien of the Maltese inhabitants: Lie observed that the Maltese- Depoties had nat been attesnied Co by his Majesty', Minieteta tot fen of giving Umbrage to, Bonaparte. Nothing could be"Tubrestisgrat:&ti to the chansdegaiii the iicasn*y; Jain frainsaids*ni*: - p . l _, • .. ?'` . • I • • . Ir. ....• . ~~ •~ ~ .' • % 4 , z .41 ~. S . . e . JL-1