The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1821-03-10 00:00:00

M=IELS a.lmomshing the printer, and would satisfy the obiret he had in view. Lord Carnsazaon said the att:cle in question' had been shewo to him as a proper subject of corn plaint ; hut although it appeared to hun a more fake, detestable, red wicked libel hail never been printed, he .thottht it .uo post of his duty as a Minister to bring it before the House. As it had, however, been taken nulice of; lie Nowt say that it expression Of meaning to him as that 11"righ'Ph was meant to convey. What he had *saki was, that persons ; ought to be cautioned against sending petitions to that House, which, front their nature, 'could not be received. Whatever ►night be the in. tentiou of the wrath) irk° •published the li►t, in putt►ng such a heading to it, he ;houg!it It so low Knit so manifeitly absurd sato be unworthy of honer. Ilia reason for moving the rejection of the Petition :snout Judge Beg, was, that it appeared to him to Ise a case iii . wfveh that House was not authorised to iiitertere ; sod be thought it a great misfortune to persons who felt theriiselves aggrieved, that they should' be erroneously advised as to the proper Bourse which they should pursue to obtaidredress. Ilut shut he could menu to oppose the right of pet•sonss to Petition that House, was what he thought no man could in f uirliess have conceived. Lend A. IlastlL•ros thought that the triragnipb ws. only intended to express the inference drown by ►he Editor of the Paper as to the effect of the vote; lie therefore should recommend to his'Hiln. Friend to withdraw Jail amendment, and to the Aim. Mem. lure for Yorkshire to witlidnive his mot►on. Mr. C. Ifirrciitiseots said. it was far front hit eish 'to defend guy imputation upon the majority of that [louse; but hr must remark, that wish re- It-►elive: to what fell from the Noble Lord in the debate on the former evening, he (Mr. C. H.) at he time stated his impression of the Noble Lord's meaning, and called upon the Noble Lard to ►ay if he had misconceived lulu ; he could net therefore *Orr, the Noble Lord to say that no fuir man could so hare undennood him ; hut,. he assured the No ble Lord :end the House, that such was the impres sion on his mind, that he understood the Noble I,nrd, that petitioning had come so much in tralsiosi, mat it was time to read the people an admonition on the subject, sod he so stated it at the time. Mr. C. MoN cc said, a greet deal more had been slid on this unfortunate paragraph titan it descry eil.—(fleur, hear.)—lt had ta•ra described by the Noble Lord as a f.ilre. detestable, ai,d aicked libel ; isti he should not be surprised if the Attorney- General discovered that it was also blasphemous and seditious—(Lawthier.)—But the Hon. Mover h td st holly intscoocrieed the sense of the paragraph. With the Marling to the first part, nobody hail any fault to find ; the second was wholly distinct ; and if it oils a libel at all, it was not a libel against that Mouse, or against the majority, but only .sgairist She Noble Lord. It appeared to litio to be nUthiug more thou a political squib, and to be woolly unworthy of the notice which had been taken of it. .Lwd CantAtilikacit thought the Hon. Member but ill discharged the afire he had undertaken of Counsel for thu Editor.—(Cri‘s of " spuite.")—.The remainder of his Lordship's °hoer us could ;WA clearly comprehend. CORWEN thought, after the explanation of the Noble Lord, that bulb the 'notions bad better be outhdraou. .Ir. S. WoRTLEY void, the grounds upon which hr took up the qurstion were, that the poiralrapir sppra•ed to hint to be a libel on the majiirity of House.—(Heor, liter )—lrfe thought it nal niate!y connected wi'll the safety of the House— ( Ilear, hand—.auti if any tomer stood up in the Home to defend the propriety of it, be wilted divide the Honor no the motion he hod niodr, even if he t•tt.ted Mr. J. P. GRANT agreed with his Hon. Friend 11'111 ( ‘ ii . • C. Nlooek) in thr coostittroon which hr laml i•Li on the Ilr sitger.led to t I e ihu. Meir, brr for Slirr "%bury, that a would be liritrr to withdraw I•is roirottutirot, if die Hun. Nirtiltwr opposite would withdraw ht>' motion. :11r. 11013HOUS6 feared lir albo should f a ll tinder the censure of bring I bad Counsel fur Mr. Lam bert, although he took a ditteient tiew it' ibis question:. for, he believed lie differed in opinion from almost every body ni that House, yet lie must say, itvit in his opmiou that Home had not the power to do what was now propoted—(Load cries tif,“ Hear, hear !" " Order. order I" The SOY:AKER said, thy Ilan. Member was out of order.. • Mr. 1105110 USE returned. The remark which was rompftined of; wily applied to the minority ; it bait frothing whatever to du with the motives of the assjaany. The minority might vote under a very diftereirt impressimi from that of the majority. li e thought it b a d been truly debige.ated as a politi cal 'gosh... the Noble L.... 1, in the last Session, whew the attention of the Haase was directed to a p u rag rb ith i.e fliadall's Western l uminary, made ao olweivation winch 'truck !mu Of very SPoilicable to the present occasiou,•which was, that if they Inr.t began to notice these thinly. these wm no knotting where n : ee l wield end.--(Hem, hear.) —Hardty - a clay i in which severer attacks were. not mode on Clantirtuen on that (the Opporitimi) side of thit flonse; hi himself, as well as many others, were constantly described as aiming at he 114111Ve141011 of this coostitution, which no MINI certainly was leas capable of intending then lw was. He tlitraghythe printer had nut cwinniiittd any Artioar, and if the panigraith fia.l appeared in any part of the paper detached front the list of the iniwority, no one-w n wld have thought otherwise. Tins 1 - 100. Al, th ip er fir Yorkshire had before now found occasion tic otter his opinions ; some years ago. fur instance, he voted the present Ministers iny.ipahle, but ufterwur t hi he had contiuut7d to.support them. New lights inizlit break iit upon a- mitt which might fairly induce flies to alter his .views. Ile hoped, thrrefore, the Hon. Mintier, after the reception which his insti•tii had met with, seirtild see the propriety of •iiiidraw ing it. Mr. S. WORTLICY slid, after al at 11.441 fallen from the lion. Member who just sat down, and 11w opinion winch he ettte.siatoull of 1 1, e paragraph, he could nut, consistently with his *ruse of duty, comment Is withdraw lois motion. Colonel DAVIES and Lord A. Ifssittlos said a hi. words, which we could tint collect. B•11.11AM Said, it appeared to him that what the printer stated was tPe fact, that the winotity . - . .. 1 .4 ( -41 . , - ,. •• -4 j• ke h.ft: 4 .: . .- g '• ' .. , . did vote against the admonition which the Noble 'however, say dila, that regular abhors aloud to essmlue Lord hail given. I lain the affairs of the prisms, i s o r de r to leant wh e th er the Mr. C. Bsrituare said it could not be that the prisoners bad any complaints to make. And it was smile minority had voted against the admonition of his b ri h v i i i i t • d si ti r t l ie n a ge h t a n d at tha t t W h or fi ihy • *de goak rilis°, 111.4i.eh"ge °f his Noble Friend, because that odinonition was not the that 1,401. not frola g aci t ja i l ed, _ it a matter re a tilu w o ri t t ig question on which they voted. If it were meant to t pager.—(Heur. keen. sod is - --- .._ _... ...., Tinfoits that they voted in that manner In cc sue- 'NO T. L ETH ORI DC EataretT a toms( could be better Ihm the system purposed in that In fact he might ..M. (pence of that admonition, then the paragnipli. wail moat call it a perfect mittem; mot sbould the Ilousefeel lbw correct, tit least if the admonition had.the teudency ...4 . 4 . to appoint • Committee of Inquiry, they itesfuld say which A was stated to have. Ile ihriiisilirtlii - Win.. th a t b e h a d not ekelecerete d . _o lhar, k ) - Member might withdraw his mollon •ripoti thillee)s:.. Dr. LUSHINGTON wished to say a 'few *Mita, as be b u t h e e s U l fsfl 'felt peculiarly ititeresied, both as th e Represeniativ eq f 11- planation being elenrly understood, chanter. and as 611614 Stern requested to support the Pei i- Hot consent to its being withdrawn under the de lion. He atoms considered i t t h e d u ly of every Member fence of the Hon. Member opposite, that it was out to present a Petition when intrusted to him, hot not to sup. an offence in any view. • port it artless well informed of the truth of its contents Sir R. Firaoosuts said, that under the impression /tad in consequeace of this °Motion, 'when appliestiou 100 l that the language of the Noble Lord on a former been Made to loins On the subj ec t, b• informed the party evening tended to the repression of petitions also. that be should make the necessary inquiries. The result of ri ether, he, on that occasion, rose mid ske with theae .b iuquiri s es a he should Stale to the Hou s e as Welly as g po rat t le ruo, hii t wtd great nut ma den y, ay of thestatesneois in the Peti * softie warmth in reply. He advised the Hononi st he had aeon confi ned a bl e Member for l'orkshire to withdraw his alio- for anon yeirs was eerlain ; but nut for the sum of 341. lion, and remonstrated with him on the ineunriat- hat a magi larger aura—(Hier, A c a r )—and it in also true ency of his 'fel-06ring them to accede to his opi that for many years be retried to execute a deed, where by he might have obtained his liberty. But now let Mon that - the paragraph was , improper, when they us take the other aide of the question. It is uow entertained a contrary opinion, four years sines Is promised to execute the deed. Ho Lord C4IIIILEIRRAGII again explained the impres- (Ur. Lusbingion) examined the aceitonts, and he believed the sion he had intended to convey by the words lie only balance now remaiaing was 701. And he really could Used on the evening alluded to. not see why the man should stem be liberated. It was not Mr. STUART . IVolti'LllY, across the table, asked his ihe inte o ati , o i n to e_iitenusie his guilt, be may have beau if he was to underatand the offer of the Hon. Mem- in b t pen i al a l a y l , e 'and bu b t e b i r h i o re a n ehriraa i s m irot riw t " : "n a l rli w to an t 'L a • her for Shrewsbury tb withdraw his amendment us pact from the Irusency of the Government, iri7en ni at the as a CniirtalliOis orthe impropriety of the idtragraph ? cri fi ce of the 71) pounds to liberate this poor old man of (Cries qf " No, no," frorollie Opposition.) seventy years of age. With respect to I tcheater goal, there te•vo ! t must be some incoscreniencie*, but it has nude:lone Mr. DRNISIAN arid he was not sorry that 8 the present motion h od been brought on, as he reersylusstecrovemaitoe"tas, h i n t d wao tio ini n poss i. i . hle to iottoduce a vv . ; thought it wowed the great evils that were likely the flier. It was damp, ist anti necessarily r B ii it tl " Zei•O n rn ea r. to result from a Ferorverance in the rejection of the But no prisms that be bad ever seen (and he hail seen many) Petitions of the people. trosessed so many advantage., •unde r all the Circumstances. was, like all other gaolers. a little surly; The call for the question became very loud, and 'brulitelelemobekor liev he ed kn i ew, stranger. were °Meted to withdraw; it wits not, how- useful man; in fart " , bePsZsilacomuoisdt there h b re f l u st:l d ro a tne m nl °r it e s ever, till some time after the gallery had been the h an d s o f the Magistrates, who introduced that reforma. ckeired that the division took ',thee, wheu the num- lion into the prison. He should conclude by expressiug an ben %were— earnest hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would not ' I<f .es . 155 be so hard-bearitd as to peon.vere in imprisoning thia pour Ayes . •••• . .. 34 old man --. Sir ISAAC COFFIN was ac q uai n t e d w ith th e borough of Majority against the Amendment of Ilehrster, and he perfectly concurred in the character giveu Mr. Rearm After a few words from Sir FRANCIS OMMAN N EY the The question on the original motion bring then Petition was brought up. . ' pot from the Chair— Mr. Alderman WOOD replied. He worthd not deny that the Mr. LAW/TON moved the - tuestion. Petitioner might have --pared sebedules for - -.• T.- •i• r.. ASUITON ..... previous q .1(3.• After some short discussion, Mr. STUART Wmtet.try observed. that if the principle were ad mitted that it was a breach of privilege, he had and objection to withdraw hia motion. Dr. LUSH I NGTON said, that no min could dos it was a breach of prisilege; lie therefore hoped thP. lion. Mcinbar would be satisfied, and withdraw bin motion. Mr. STUART WORTLEY observed, that lie was perfectly satisfied. Mr. L A HSTON withdrew his amendment, after I a few obsettations. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. The House then proceeded to other business. The Transportation Rill was received from the Loids. Lord PA LMERSTON laid some papers before the House. j relative to the medical expenses of the army.—Laid on the table. Tim Calmly Courts Rill was postpone.' to Thursday next. Mr. STUART wortmcv postponed the Grampound Disfraclaisenteist Bill to Tuesday The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER poopoisak his motion, relatise to the resumption of cash mum's, to 7 Monde) next. At the request of Mr. BARING, be consented to postpone it to Monday senisight. Lord CASTLEREAGH laid before She House some papers relating to the prices of foreign corn. Sir JOHN NEWPORT gave notice, that on Thursday neat he would move fur the return of all rums expended 00 the new Post-Office, Dublin, within the last seven years. At the request of Sir GEORGE HILL, Sir HENRY PARNELL postponed the 'tithes Leasiug (Ireland) Bill to Wednesday next. ILCHESTER GAOL. Mr. Alderman WOOD stated, that he held in his hand a Petition from a man of the name of Charles Hill, who lass confined for the last fifteen yf ars in Ilcbester gaol. and he w•ii happy to see the Hon. Members for the Couuty of Farmer's, t in their places, that they might have an opportunity of con. ti 'dialog the statements, if pot true. Time Petit luster stated, Ihni he had been a collector of taxes, and in 1806 was charged with a deficiency of 6191. In consequence of this, he sold his property to the amount of 400/. and collected taxes, that were still due, to the amount of 1761. hut that there still re- 'stained due a balance of 34/. fur which sum he has been con- Guest aisicelhat period —(Hear,korr.)—Over and over again be conseuted to a. II his property to pay the debt ; he peti- Boned the Commisakosers, and he petitioned that House. The Petitioner is 70 years of age, and proceeds to enume rate a lung hat of grievances; he makes many complaints against the gaoler. He wuitld not, however then detain the House, he would merely claim that some relief should he extended to the Petitioner. Look to the defaulters in the higher walks of life, who ,sere perhaps at that ointment en joying the patronage of the present Administration, and •Ibes they must agree with him, Shot it is not too muds 10. ask for that old man of seventy.---(Heerv, ireass.)— ifartuos complaints had bees made against the system per *sued in that gaol. The tr.-mimeo' that Mr. Hunt experi enced of lair was much to be complaiued of. During the ahreevalty of Sir Charles Bonifield he experieoceil much kindness, hut be has berm used quite differeutly since the present Moira has hero appointed, as if forsooth his ini primmusent were not long rnorqh without may further ag gravation. He would not details the House longer on the .alt. He should, however, feel it his duty, •113 some future serarioo, so move for • Committee to investigate lb. atatsripmsta made resipeciiog Wheeler gaol, which, if true, we or a moat disgraceful nature. At present he chussld Assad himself with moving that the Petition be brought up. Sir. CREEVEY prayed the mientioa of the House to the Petition It was I:Heatherly hard that a malt of 755 rain of age shood b• imprisoned fir fifteen years, fur the sum of 34 pounds at the suit of the Crown. His condition was 111- litsii.ly worse than that of his superiors. Fur the House cannot be ignorant that there ore defaulters in the higher circles, who are permitted to go about al large. 'nitro was the caw of Mr Villiers, a defaultrr to the amount of 100,000 pounds. He did not mentMn this for the purpose of Milne . tug the Government to punish Mr. Villiers. All he said was tots, that there should nut be one law fur the pour sod an other fur she rids. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER professed himself that partculr but it - -sled 5 .R • nave pm persons in pct one, but that was no arguaseut is, favour of the confinement. Re was surprised that any Hen Mertibcr could get op in his plate and slate that he (Alibi-man Wood) hail made h•s re port, not Gum ocular demonstration, but from a written etstement ; whereas he timid prove that he, in company with an Huss Member of that 111/11.P. a Surveyor, and the Town Clerk, were in that prison for sonic I rs.—(Haar ) As to whether the statements in the Petition welc true or Not he would not then say, hut he could not quite agree in the character given of the gaoler; for he could state an in stance of a persuo charged with fraud, Dow living in the house of the gaoler ever sitter he was imprisoned there (Mr. Kinnear), actually in the habit of playing cards with him.— (Here the worthy Alderman was interrupted with erica of Qreatioa,queslicia."l--Hc well knew there would he found gentlemen in that House willing enough to cheer statements that were not tree, but would not hear their contriolictioos. But he was stating facts, and was Dot to be pat down. Ile was sure 114 Ilan. Members fur the county had novenae to complain of his swam of courtesy. He waited for the up portunity of pri sewing the Petition in their presence. He had, in company with solsere, visited every gaol in Eng land, anti made his reMsrks in writing as he wend .long, and he was sore that 'Gentleman most have beta misinfurmed, or he never would have made the statement. Mr. DARING observed, that the klegiatiateri of the county were most respectable men, and paid the closest at tention to the gaol. He had heard that the City of Loudon bad made a pilgrimage to all the genie in the country, and published their Reports.—(Cries of Hear, fiser..;— He hail ovule inquiries into the case, and lie understood the facts to be Aerie :—Two Aldermen, a serveyor e alid tows clerk, arrived in llchester, and like a genuine City deputation, the int thing they did was to order a good dinner—(Marcia lentgltler)—aad they sat IN long after 'limier, that they left the lowa without ever bowing visited the gaol at all— (Cketes)—assil a strong coarfirmaliou of this story was, that they made their report, descrihiute the premises, a pump io the yard, and so forth, that had actually been altered a t rowerniiiith before.--(Clieera end l aug ht er .) Mr. WILMOT wished to ask the worthy Ablernian, whe ther he had visited the gaul, or made his report frum a writ ten stalemeal Mr. BERNAL rose to order. He did not conceive that any Hun Member hail a right to put, directly or iiadiri-clly, sue interrogatory, after be boil dimly(' the fact. Mr BUXTON confirmed the statement, that the good Aldermen arrived at Iklotster, and had a geed diuner, 14 prii. ease, . appeared to him from his owe ►hawing. that it was nut a case in which the Treasury could inteitere for mercy. Mr. DICKINSON observed. that he had often visited that rant, and made sume inquirsei respecting the case of the l'e tiqoaer, and really the Imprrr•iou on his mind was, that the sum vas much larger than that describe 1. He lersloud that afro s had been made to Lim of hi, liberty, on condition of his giving up his property, hut he declined doing ran He u nderstood, 'solved, that be had bees truing the trade of an attorney in the put, sad he believed that he was disemod to brawn there in consiquence of the prulils of his prufossion.—( Mar, hear.)—Wash respect to the bona thrusts/out against the Sher .IT of Sumerselshire, be ninst say they were most unmr►ited—s not live; and should the House appoint a Committee to ills vestigste the affairs of llcliesier gaol, be was ready to meet the worthy Alderman un the question of Mr. Hunt and the Sheriff. tie iruuld uut tbeu titter lulu details. He must end after dimmer mot for the gaoler, sod made their report without visiting the gaol.—(.l laagh.)—He had some ex perience in these affairs. and he considered the gaoler of Wheeler a most valuable and useful me.n.—(flear. hear.) Mr. Alderman WOOD hoped the lionise would permit bins to repel the charges list had bees made against him.- -(fiestr, hear.)—The Hon. slentber had indulged himself with an attack tin him, no deist,t to the great amusement of the Home, fur he ham, how acceptable any thing in the shape of ■o attack wits to certain persons, who were a little obnoxious to them. and be believed the humble iudividual who addressed them had given them some pangs—Moor, heor.)-oHe repeated again that he had been In the gaol wills an Honourable Gentleman who haul then been a Mew. her of that Home, and he hoped the House world permit him to call the gassier of Ilehester to the bar of that House. A strong contradiction of the statement is this, that, if they looked its.° the report of the Aldermen, they would find no descriptiou of either the places or the articles alluded to by the Honourable Member (Mr. Baring). They were at that time preparing to bnild a large gaol in London, 41141 it was with that authority they proceeded. He Lad bums elected as one of those Moho shoutd Make the visit.— Tlie Hoo. Member thought the dustier ■ good topic to ex cite a sneer, Mosses he made no question the Gentlemen 41 that House loved a good diuuer as well as any class of ht. Majesty's' subjects; but he could assure the Honourable Member they did not slim there. The situation of the pour ms„ wan truly deplorable, to he kept in gaol for so paltry a alum, et a time whets the typhus fl suer razed in the prison In that degree, the Judges Would lust try the primmer. at the Assizes. Was this a in-titgr to buu met iu the way it had been, and a doubt made as it the Petition ought not to be brivight alp ? Mr. HUTCHINSON, before the Petition was bronght up, wished to say a few woad.. fie considered the worthy Alderman had been very lotrilly dealt wills on the present occasion. a n d o u ght to be considered as ass attack, nut uu him a'one, but at the moat valuable privilege of the people. The Honourable Member for Somerset had set the evidence of whom - tunas. Ilso gaoler, of she man condom was romplained of, against charges brought ria tbat very paler. Mr BARING explained. Alderman WOOD said, that what had surprised hin t most was, dial the Hunuorable Alernber had made hi: counter statentents after his own positive assertion. The Fl f ”r o p ra . hie Mrniher had heard • direct falsehorol which lie heard from the gaoler, that he (iklersoan W I) was mot present. (qr. BARING said, after the 1.11)11. Alileernaii had assertrd it, Le lIPV. r doohlrit hiss t*e was stone mistake. Dr. LUEHINGTON asitM, if theansei **mid assign all his property, whether the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite would give - his indulgent toOsideration to the Petitiou The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER di lined girsng an anatver till lie was farther informed. The Ktation was then brought up. ARMY gni AI A T ES. On the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER utoyieg \ - • s \ . . 1 the Order of tLe Day f...r the noose vin; into a C,.rnmittee of Supply 111r. CIIEEVEY rose and said, there had not been a single day from the rofuamortuneut of the &sums Sisal petitouns had nut liens presented and grievances complained of, and in nu one instance bus the Hon. Mensher prestmling it Lad • mikiLhia.own.pwraturat teathinetoy to the triable - ISi Miiirs;'- 1 Mints; yet the Goeernmeut hail taken no ski., and told owl no hopes of relief. There hail been two attempt. made, wit h3l-0 1 11 Ho& Meinber fur Aberdeen, awl ibietter by the t timber for Csimberfleita, but both had inert with ihe reale fate, buthYaid beets rejected by that Houk. Haring Oafs turned their harlot on the distresses of the country, they bed row come in the ordinary course of business to vats the services of the year •ith the same iiiiliteresicy, •as if the country, instead of being ou the eve cif bankruptcy, was in the most fluurishiug condition. It was quite im noestbk for him, with the apathy, the indifference, nay, the contempt which the Hutise had sheen to the dia. tresses of the country, to Nonlegal to go into a Conintittee of Supply. In what be Was ghoul to observe, be begged to be nuilerstood as not intendiug any thing pet-sweat, lie bad be fore remarked on the great number of official persons who were in that . House—no less than seventy Members were, as he might say, regular annuitants ou the public, who eat and voted there, ittid it was quite impossible under such circumstances that the public should have fair pley That was the first grievance of which he had to cum plait.; another was one which the Hunourieble Member tur Montrose bas intended yesterday to have brought specili early before the House, had a House brew made, which be regrettevi was nut the ease. The grievance he eureka wee, the exlstinee of those officers called Collectors of Laud 'Fax and Dirtributurs of Stamp.; and he viewed it as a grievance, because he always considered those offices as the property of that House. If any doubt were entertained on that herd, they had only to call some of taken to the bar of that House noel inquire by what lucky chance they became possessed of their lucrative sit uations. Thus they had one hundred and forty great sinecure offices given by Ole Ministers at the recommendatiou of Members of Slat House. to the Mutton' and dependants of the latter; with the seventy Mewherr cuustrutly in the receipt of itablic money, was too strung au iufhienice fur the public pd. They had, to use a familiar phrase, dim their filigree deep in the till to do justice to the cash account. In ntailug that, he did not shut his .1(.4 to the oilier branches of Ileffilence; to the pstrutingeof the Customs soul Excise, which twirled through that House; neither was he blind to holism ampointeneuts, nor the Colonial Establishments, nor to the Estimates new berme the House. All those thump made the House too strung for the people, and his opinion was, that all those things should be brought before the House previous to going into the Committer. The Houourable Member' concluded by moving as an senendatest, That the House would take into it. ctmsideratioa the number of Members hulding tilikes of profit uuder, or receiving pensions bum the Crown, and eunsideriug th.• expediency of thiniuishiug the weather, and it appearing by the Report of the Finance Committee of 1807, that seventy Members of that House held unites senonoriog mutually to 150,0001. and upwards; it further appeared that in the present distressed state of the eonntry, no relief 'timid be expected but Gum au tudepeudeut House of Commons. On the question being ;mi— lord PALMERSTON rose and said, he could scarcely think the Hun. Member war quite serious jet the amend. meet which be had moved; he considered that it was wily a mode by which the Hon. Member iotended to cell to the idleutiun of the House the sehjecto to which his motion referred. It was a siugelar thing that the Hon. Member had founded his proposition on the Petitions of the people tit that House not having been atteaded to, when,. in 'mut of fact, the majority of the Petitions were on the subject Of the agricultural distress, es which a Committee had been appointed, and yet the Hun. Member said nothing hail Deets done. The House must be aware that the pay of the army was voted to last December only, and that the Nutley Bill would expire this month ; he was therefore persuaded the Member did not menu to press his ieotiuu, but merely hileudedru record the consieteury of Ida opinions, agreeing, rts Wester-did, In the propositions made ekven years ago. Pc BENNETT said, the Hon. Member cupid not mean to stop the supplies. He thuught that lie bad chosen well his lime for Imagist( forward his present motion ; but he Gould not mean, if it were carried, afterwards to vote no muney till every subject that his motion alluded to had been examined. All Ord he aimed at was, to give a pledge to the public, suit he hoped the lion. Member would not only press his amendment, but, if rejected, again bring it for ward lu the Navy and Ordnance Estimator, and on one of these occasions he trusted the House would nut have brieu worn out and fatigued with debating fur four buttes a sub ject which no tine but the Mover of it thought worthy of Mr. CA LCRA FT said, that hostile as he was to the Gen tlemen opposite, he could not, to eratify.asy feeling of hosti lity or party, consent to stop the wheels of Goverumeut by voting for the Hort. Member's menden/esti Concurring, as he did, with much that had (dice from the 11011. Member respecting the undue influence which was exercised in that House, yet he could not al once. amid without discuesiuti, come to a vote upon the proposition. He might ibilik the fence proposed toot large, but same force was necessary ; the moue, required might be too much, but still the army most he paid, and the Mutiny Bill also must be renewed.— The Noble Lord had ever used the renewal of the Mutiny Bill as a reason for expediting their discussions, but he might take a vote sufficieut to ground a Mutiny Bill for a short period, suppose to pass the Mutiny Bill to the Ist of May, and to let it regularly extend to that period in future, he had no doubt it would be egreenble to the Noble Lord and to big suceessors, it' indeed he ever were to have a sue cessor.—(A laugh.) Mr. CHF.EVEY explained. Sir JOHN NEWPORT said he should oppose the amend ment, on the ground stated by tho Hun. Member (Mr. Calcrafi.) Mr. HUSEISSON begged to observe, that if the Howie adopted the amendment, they could nut go lulu the Com mittee of Supply Mr. BIONCY eapreased his determination to vote for She amendene at. The House then divided, when there appeared- Fur the original Motion 172 Against it Majority 134 On our return to the Gallery the SPEAKER putilictereas bun that he should now leave the Chair, when Mr. Mite ruse nod *aid, he meant before he sat down, by the motion with which he should conclude, to place upon record the state of the military force snit the expenses attending it now, us compared with a former period. l'he view he took of the question be was about to submit to roe House was Vialilar to flint eistertained by the Finance Committee in 1817, at *hide time they recommended en approxienatton to the estinistes of 17 9 2. tie was fully impressed with the opinion. that no relief could he afforded to the public with— out a great diminution of taxation, and that could not be effected without a great reduction of the expenditure. At in early period of the Session the Chancellor of the Exchequer hail led the 11 use to believe that a million would be saved, compering the estimates now on the table with the estinia . u. of the ye , r isl 7. A comparison of the estimates would *hew the flutes.: how the matter 'rally !dood— le, 1817, the Estimates fur the Army, Navy, and Ordnance, were lu 1821,the Estimates are So that there was in 1821 more than in 1817. L. 401337 lle *Mg anxious the Hauge should malt-wand au ob►ertaiion whiell he had made b rote. He thou4lit flail the Secretary at War should come down and state at once the whole of the expense of the military establi►hmcnt; for Gentlemen were \i\ „A. • ti not aware that when they were called upon to vote, as by the estimates on the table, 6,643.9601. it was only shoot two thirds of the amount which tiny would be called tpou to vote. For in 1820 iliey • voted ot!IL13,8074061. byestitnate r ,tithen the ex rs tune siaa upwarifil;f nine gallons, so that thrre nit thous were voted by driblotant &Ifcrept times, hut Icsa than fly ffereut use, haying been _take u_uu . • eccounilif the'rdititry FsTATiiihmeni. The HMI; • here led to beiieie ifirit . .15,"143;08/. 'would, be the experise . Of the Military eitablishMent tor the year 184 1, tito they would Lid that 11,04441 E *thrrortli,-, . nail; Of the Oydrunice, 9,000,000/..would be. mt., wired. object was to *hew what the -military. roalilialirnent was in 1792, the piriod to which the Finance Committee bad recommend#d•an.wOrdoc.: ntation of the estimates, Mid be called partitilairtio upon V . nit class who wireF4fled the landed4stMeir. . and would beg. to suggest ,to thorn that to-Q-v. , . • had come down le the price of 1792, wucto-r t was nut a probability of their incoincs CO!tli down also, wig he would impress upon them tine absolute necessity Of bringing down the exprad,- : lure to the: settle.of tiat year. lu 1792, the Cavalry an lafrntry in Great Britain Wrre to the Copulae,. 1r Irekassd To which was afterwards added.... 3,232 15,231 Makings total of molar troops of 4tt,474 Now the House would look to the regular troops (di the present day la Great Britsia we have ' 117,151' In lb. Colonies ' 7Y,49tf * s In Ireland s 20;771 Making; a total of Bl,lOB . So that we sow, in 1821, !Ad ;1A,6,12 two Inv e thou in 1191. Ile wait xis, waling to allow 12,00 0 , Moi l feu uu.s etiten4oiti Colonial posiessioo). sod !poseurs auoe that, there leaisain be au exec.*, of 1:),000 regain, trumps. He vault! coil t .11., to relives!. 10.000 of them, sod that would kayo • earples of 14,030 NMI j or even suoilo-itig that 15,000 were alloied •fur the new colonies, a greet reeks would 'Stift ripirirt. lie,,woulli now touipare. 141,Irsricutrir .. .form at the twe period.. lo'l7§l. • !keys! Attains? o . t 0 0 0 •A•ft. 3.730 Verities Militia. he had taken she somber, ati they •ppeareJ trt_37l3. Ant having beers able to find a change • for say is 1792 • 111alilefa Setif of irregular force d t5,757 In 11191,' be hive-- taril Artillery arinea .. • • • 8,000 atailtdiag to the Estimate . • 51,190 Yeomanry sad Volunteers in Greet Britain Volunteers In Ireland • --- Making • total. at whiciitkw Hommwouldf 1za — ,492 be surpriami, of .• ••• men in arms. ready to bt out at six hours notice sat !cast he knew in *Wand thy yeomanry had turned out at that notice. Witte tnllt{itt also if might be remarked, that it could hardly be .any thing but effective, as he found a staff established. He would call elm. Members to look at the stat e of this country vs it regarded foreign nations in 1792, and compare it with the. present state. The /lonia would now see, by his comparative ststement of the military establishment of the coun try in 1792. and at the present tune, that the num ber of the regular troops was 32 63.2, and of the irregular •Ibrees, 99,735 more now then at the former period. nisking together' a difference of 132,367. He contended that the House would not do its duty if it allowed so enormous an establish ment of regular troops, at a time when we liad on foot so imposing i force in militia, yeomanry, and volunteers. He called on the Members of the Committee appointed to inquire into the distress usider.whielt our agriculture was labouring, to coo sider'Whether they would not do more towards its relief by compelling • reduction of this vast este blishmerit, and thereby diminishing the taxes, than by any scheme of raising the prices of produie.—S ( Loud cheers.) 7 -If they were sincere in their de sire to relieve the country, if they had any regard even for their own iudividual natereats, he called upon them to apply themselves to the reduction of this overgrown military system. He had already shown that • the number of irregular forces alone on the present establishment, was more than double the strength of the regular and irregular troops united, on the scale of 1792. The Noble Lord, on a former occa sion, when he was called nn to reduce the amount of the establishrneut, referred to the extent of our colonial possessions, and the force required for their protection, for which the militia, yeomanry, &c. were not assi!able. He was ready to allow that the increase of the Colonies since 1792 might require . an addition to the number of regular iiifautry, hart he must call sport the Noble Lord to spew why there should be such an increase in the life guard.. dragoon guards, dragoons, foot guards, and other farces, which were not available for general service. The difference between the respective establish ments of those corps in 1791 and the present year, are follows : 1792. 1821, Differeice. Life Guards Nurse Guards 261 344 83 Dragoon Guards Drartuuus Fuut Guards 3,126 0,760 2,634 6,574 14,612 8,034 Those numbers were exclusive of Officer.. An increase in the number of the regular might be requisite to meet the deonond for It e gArrisolis of the Colonies, but here was no increase of 5,0118 rank and file, of a description of forte kept on foot for no other purpose hut that of sheer and parade, and to do the duty of the metropolis. The number of these troops had been unnecessarily increased greet measure by nu trienectssary Crelitie of the number of seotioels .Lout the tow... In )70 the einenber of mrti moulitin o c guard daily in the metropolis was 663, which furnia led 159 peatt mei% ; in 1816, the date of the last account which he had been able to get at, since which time they had been increased, the number of men on gu.srd d oily was 9.16, and the number OF 'minim • - 236. Every Hots. Member who knew toe st. t• • the ite 1794, must be eniovinced dna' there was nothing at present to require Ibis to - crease in the number of guards, the only intention, , therefore, of the increase must be a love of parade, By a comparison of the Estimates of each dercrip- 711