The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-07-14 00:00:00

f ... ~•^~ civilized world. By division, has power of the common enemy been increased. and disunion has consummated the overthrow o' the proudest monar chies of Europe. It vias an idle id •a. to supoose, that the relief prop ised to the Catholics would he irju rions to the Civil or Ecclesiastical Constitution. There was nothing attacking the tondamentaii of the Constimtion in wh t was iot.nded for their re lief, any more than in the tormer concessions which bad been granted them. If no regard was now paid to his recommendaion. the hour would ar rive. when the question would come home to the mind of every one; for the present was not the time, when dangers impended, to encourage rut ciples of dpunion. If Parliament adopted that system towards the Cash et which the resent Ministers were pursuing, th e Jahger; to this coon try were not only great. but, in his opinion, inevi table. He had now dischaiged his conscience towards Parliament and his Country, and probably this might be the last time when he should have to address their Lordships on the subject. Lord HAWKEiBURY began by remarking the variety of subjects, foreign to the question, which had been introduced in the speech of the Nob* Lord. With regard to the more immediate autied of the Indemnity Bill. he agreed with the Noble Lord who had just sat down, that, in a que.unii which feinted to a breach of the law, the justifica tion was not to rest on precedent merely, but to be considered with regard to the nature of the question. In ;were Government,. however chnuitutcd, cases would arise, which were not provided for by law; but when such cases have actually arisen, it had been the universal custom of Parliament, to look with candor tand fairness. when the knecutive Goverh ment had applied to them for a Hal of indemnity. He would willingly agree that the justification should stand upon the reason and nevssity of the case, and that it should also be submitted in inc wisdom and discretion of Parliament. In this re sped it made no dificience whether the law teas broken thrutagO for the purpose of restraiz.t or indulgence ; fur at all events, when the approbation of Parliament was applied for, it was incumbent on them to inquire into the reason why the law WAS broken. In the present instance, he had no hesitation to say, that the law was broken through for the sake of indulgence. The Noble Lord went into an historical detail of the various temporary ads regulating the commercial arrangement between this country and America, subjeft to the acknowledgment of the independence of America. The Cider of Council was an in. duigen:e to the peopl- of this country, who could lint twee immediately tran.terrtd their property from American to British ships; it was An insiti!- genet alas to the A • oeric its, upon whom it would bare been hard to pin in tolee the navigation A 4, at a time when a treaty was peading between this eon:lily arid Am.:lies. But the Nable Lord ob. jrttra to this measure, as connetting it with the dis solution of Psi-Bement, and Ise asked, whet neces sity was there for tueh a step ? In his opinion s events justified that dissolution; and it a dissolution of Parliament were necessary, it was fit it should take place whilst the events that occasioned jr were fresh in the people's mammies. Here the Noble Lord eivered iota a minute statement of tke causes which occasioned the late change of Ministers. Herehareed them, :Our their dismissal, with calling upon Parliament for an opinion, whitb, if given as they desired, would have tended to criminate Hi s Majesty. or, at least, to criminate those whom His Majesty called to Isis Councils. The question was not only as to the Catholic WI. bat the manner in which His Majesty had hero used with respect to that 13111: His Majesty ktad, therefore, made an ap peal to the people at %mgr. as well as to show to Europe at large, that His Majesty had formed a stros-st and efficieet Government. The question between His Majesty and his late Ministers had been brave t to issue by the late Ministers themselves. He coneriitted His Majesty's present confidential bervante wets justified in advising the King to dis solve Paeliament, and that at the very time when thr, did ; nor could this Dissolution have taken ftlaee at the time it did, without a necessity of a breach of the laws in the present instance, and which now called for a Bill of Indemnity. In the nu ii erons addresses, the sentiments of the country had been decidedly pronounced, and that in spite of every effort to counteta4 them: the sentiments of both Houses of Parliament, by large majorities, had been proved to be in unison with chat of the coun try Ilse Noble Lord said, he had heard with pain thelaiter pot of the Noble Lord (Grenville's) speech, which was calculated not to unite bu: to excite feeling and suspicions in the breasts of the Roman Catholics towards their Protestant bre- Chien. It was impossible to see what beneficial conclusion such suga:estions mild lead to at the presfr:t moment. or in again going over the suhje't of the Catholic Question, which lad been already en amply discussed. lie believed that all ranks woiild glow with enthusiasm to re•ist a most formi dable enemy, and who was rendered still mere so, by recent cireurnstonces ; and assuredly no differ ence of opinion tespeaing the Catholic Question was sufficient to justify the Noble Lord's de claration, that we were a divided people. He trusted and believed this would not be found to tw the case ; no, not with the Catholics thems lees, when the question was to support their country against the common enemy; for they well knew. that even under some deprivations, their State Was that of indulgence, compared wish any boon the eneray might hold out to them. Both in and out of Parliament there might be a diviscsii of sen timent upon atuesnons, but with respell so a foreign enemy, ers was:, and he trusted ever would or, an uniteil people. For his own part, he had always thought that it was most fair and for Parliament not to hold forth expectations seh.?li could not !ix prep ...fly realized ; he should thilik . it would be ni.:st prodant for Noble Lords to al-sraM from speeches in that House which could have no good praaical tenlency. The Noble Lord then proceeded to refer to Mr. Pith's sentiments and isondst4 on the Catholic Question, and contrasted the latter wish the condmo of Ills Majesty's late Ministers on the same subject. His Majesty's late Ministers had urged on the sulijaft in such a man ner as had committed Paiiiainent to deliver an opinion, so k :ch. he owned, hsa better, under any other eire.shisranees. have been Avoided. Io these - a- -- Os. bid, Catholics AS OWiDig : . • - 7 77471.; Mr. Pitt much. but the late Ministers very little. It was wisdom not to allow that which could not produce good. to become a source of evil. Earl SPENCER said. he agreed in opinion that the argument in favour of a Bill of Indemnity ought not to be founded on precedent, but the ne cessity of the ease. He considered it to be a wrong representation of the Noble Lord who sn.•ke last, I that the late Minister , . had corn • to make an appeal from His Majesty to Parliament. Som.. of the present confi frotial Miniskt s must have betrayed their trust, by publishing mangled ea:raEl• from the Minutes of tse Pr ivy ".:until, which lad obliged the late Ministers publicly to state the cir cumstances of the Ira isattion ; but he denied that there was any in•entin'n of bringing the Sovereign bet ore the bar of Parli anent, althoug'. it was neces sary for their own l ustitication, that the late Minis ters should bring the subj••E& before the public. If the Irish Catholics had such a spirit of loyalty, as the Noble Lord who spoke last had asserted, this was a strong reason why Parliament ►hould not withhold from them th• concessions which had been propos ed ; hut it was impossible, in the nature of man, that the same interest should be felt by them for the ge neral welfare, in their present excluded state. Lord ERSKINE entered upon the consideration of the breach of the law, and the indemnity required on the aet itself. An Act of Indemnity implied an aEt agaiost the law, from necessity, and of a press ing and imperious nature. Admitting His Ma jesty's right and prerogative to change his Mi n:sters, and to dissolve Parliament, he must still doubt. in the late instiller. the prudent exercise of this prerogative. The Concitution did not admit that both aets should be exercised together, that is with _shred and immediate reference to one an other, so as to make the new Parliament a sort ot appendage to the appointment of new Ministers. It was well known how the influence of the Crown. or rather of Ministers, was felt at times of Election. At the present moment, every thing was to be de. ;Iterated which tended to excite jealou-ies in the pr..- pie, as to the independence of Parliament. WAS it asked howa practical remedy could beapplied to these evils? It was in the power ot their Lordships, by their vete ot that evening, to thew the perfection of the British Government, and to make their own privileges respected; it was only for their Lordships to say to the present Ministers, by their vote— , You shall not, without cause, dissolve the House of Com mons; you shall not Alt without law, without a House of Parliament.' It was no justification fir an Order of Council that His Majesty's li.linisters had advised an nnfounded dissolution. He there fore could not give his consent to the passing of the Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR believed that the British Constitution was as perfect as the ercum stances of society would admit. Mien the Parlia ment was satisfied that a great measure was not stsiely witbio the law, yet that it was nnassary to the general welfare, that interruptions to this law should take place, and that there might be a ge nerals:id uninterrupted enjoyment of liberty, Parlia ment, under such circumstances, would not withhold its approbation from the couclua of Ministers. The present exercise of discretionary judgment had been called for by imperious circumstances, and His Ma jesty's Ministers its consequence cast themselves upon the candour and wisdom of the legislature. fhe only question was, whether it was a right and necessary measure, when His Majesty's Ministers in Council advised the aa, which now called for an ad of in demnity ? Even it Ministers were blameable for the dissolution of Parliament, still the question of indemnity was a dissina consideration; nor ought Parliament, by a kind of side-wind, condemn that dissolution. by refusing the aft of indemnity for what was done whew no Parliament was sitting.— Here the Noble and Learned Lord entered into a defence of Ministers in advising the dissolution of one Parliament, and the calling ot another; it was in tended to shew not only this country. but all Europe, that Ministers were likely to be supported in a measure which was adopted for the general welfare and defence of the country. He severely con demned tie late Ministers soliciting permission from His Majesty to come dowa to Parliament. after their dismissal, to state the reasons of their conduct, f.:c. Was not tbis permission solicited to attend. in Lift, the Noble Lord (Grenville) to take arms against the Sovereign's authority, by his own per minion ? This he considered to be a most unprece dented conduct. It was, in Ira, impossible. with any respea to His Majesty, that this permission should have been asked; or, it asked and given, that it should have been made use of. He con sidered it as holding out a most dangerous prece dent and example. By reason of this transaftion, His Majesty's conduct had become a subject of investigation, of which he knew of no example in history. With regard to the Catholics. so tar from being excluded the pale, they had the enjoy ment of the benefits and advantages of the British Constitution. But still from the line of conduct pursued by the late Ministers. His Majesty had been pointed out by them as the obstacle to what was called four millions of his subjects being received within the pale of the British Constitution. What was this conduct, but that of pointing the finger of dissatisfaction at the King. instead of &idling the Irish Catholics to look to the LAWS and Constitution, and to obey them ? The Noble and Learned Lord declared, that he was willing to be responsible for having had a principal share in ad visiog the dissolution of Parliament, and that at a time when it actually took place. The Order of Council was indispensable, pending the American Treaty. With regard to what was called the Ca tholic Question, he declared his opinion, that by the principles of the British Constitution, they and other Dissenters from the established Church, were secured in the benefits and integrity of that Constitution. The Leaned Lord then proceeded into a minute detail of the Bill and Claim of Rights, the Mt of Union, the Proclamation of the Prince of Orange, /cc. with a view of 'hewing that the Test and Corporation Aas were made with a view to the security of the Established Church. With a liberal and extended toleration to all descriptions of religious persuasions, he still contended, that she Law and Constitution required the protection of the Protestant Establishment. The Earl of C A RYSFORT expressed his anti meats with respea to the principles of the British ecintitutimas In expressing the shades of diatoms - - • • P.:WY between himself and the Noble and Learned Lord, he entered into a general discuuion on the Catholic Bill, on the principles of toleration. the test and corporation ass, etc. His Lordship then ervessed his opinion that it was not consistent with the principles of the C Institution. that the late Parliament should hare been dissolved at the time, an.: in the manner that it was. This step had been avowedly resorted to, to give the present Minis• tens a d-cided influence in the new Parliament, The Ecrl of LIMERICK beg tn by observing. chat the Noble Lords, who had preceded him, had so completely wand:-red horn the immAtate cries non, that, if he attempted to follow them, he should be in danger of being called to order for his irregu larity. He could not, however, but animadvert upon what the Noble Lord (Grenville) had su stre nuously recommended, even now. to do, what he called tardy ji“tice to the Catholics, and that trim the consideration of the late events on the Csininent. He wonld ask, was the Noble 1.-rrd seriou; in urg. ing this matter, in recommending the H-use to Adopt this nameless something, which he 114 1 never defined, in favour of the Irish Catholics? Would it not be an ungracious offer to the Irish Catholics, now that France was retracing her steps back from the East to the West, to offer to them. that, in the moment of danger, which had been refused iheM in the hour of more apptrent security ? A No- Me and Learned Lord (Erskine) had charged, the present Ministry with dissolving the late Par liament for the sake of packing a new one. But; he would ask. WAS there as little influme exercised at the dissolution of the preceding Parliament, • when that Noble Lord was a Minister ? Might he not refer to the occurrences in Hampshire? or rather to what fell under his 'acre immediate knowledge in the county of WextOrd,where thoe most shameful . . pratiices had been curbed on in favour of the late Administration ? He lamented that such questions as these, which involved the consideration of rdi. gious differences, Mould be agitated in and Wit of Parliament; and that at a Uma when all pet sua vont and denominations throughout-the land should unite together in defence of the poLtical interests of the kingdom. Lord HOLLAND rose, and pointedly animad verted on the order of Council respetting the levy ing money during the dissolution of Parliament; he stated, that the law and constitution of the coun try secured to the people the consent, approbation, and santlion of the two Houses, in the raising and . . appropriation of those tesoni ces which their in dustry, patience, and liberality, so abundantly con ceded to the servants of the Crown. The Noble and !.earned Lord who preceded bins, talked much of 13w, but he never heard so moth blending of oustitntional law with religious party. He too entertained the principles of Protestantism ; but he denied the necessary connexion of Church and State, in the inseparable and indispensable ef ficacy and extent contended for by the Noble and Learned Lud. lie had read and consulted the history of that Constitution, and er•eld not, upon anthorities as grave and learned as the Noble Lord himself could pretend to be, admit the pernicious doctrines laid down by him ; they were more like the quibbles of technical Special Pleading, than the broad principles on which was founded the British Constitution. That Constitution had its foundation, strength, and excellence, in other sources, than those on which it was this night attempted to .be placed. That Constitution was not founded upon Protestantism, it was anterior to and leis pre-existed Protestantism itself. It owed its origin to the wi.dom, spirit and bravery of the people, who were then Catholics, as some of the most brave and meritorious of its good sup purters are at this day, and a great proportion of whom, he•could not 'sally calculate with respea to the proportion between the population of both countries, were, at this moment, equally aftive, by land and sea, as well as by loyalty and principle, in its preservation and stability. The Noble and Learned Lord had belied his repeated professions. It was not the 13111 of Rights. the Reformation, nor he Revolution of 1609. that gave or preserved oar Constitution. it was gross ignorance of the ancient as well as modern history of the country to entertain any such idea. They were subsequent events, and he remembered and quoted the very sentiments of the great authority, Bishop Warburton. referred to on the other side, ►tating. in the words of that celebrated author, that true religion did not consist in professions or external forms, nor should any idea be formed of any man, grounded on particular doarines of religion. so difficult to be understood, or perfeSly to be comprehended or ap preciated by any man, being the result of thought, which often bewildas the most contemplative mind. He should not have blended this question of Catho licism with the subjeft of debate, had it not been for its intimate connexion with that breach and vio -1 Luton of the law which the servants of the Crown had committed. under the pretended colour or sanSion of zeal for the reformed religion, which they had most unjustly imputed to the mind of the Monarch, tinder the fielitious name of scruples, which never. he firmly believed. had any real existence in His Majesty's mind. The Ministers had dissolved the Parliament without keeping their faith and only pledge with the nation. which the people had a right to look to_ from them, and without law or witilnm. or any atiog like necessity, deprived themselves of the only sanction they ought to stand upon, respecting the I Property of the Nation ; they did this on the spar of the occasion, from selfish motives, and now came to the House for Indemnity, to which they were not, in his judgment. entitled ; it was not like any other case. where Bills of Indemnity had been passed. 'l'ne very Preamble and grounds of the Bill were utterly unfounded, as it must state the ne cessity, political expediency, or urgency of the oc casion; where. be asked, was there in the case a particle of urgency or political expediency for doing or advising this illegal and unconstitu tional aft, in the name of His Majesty Lord Si UMOU in a long speech, sup ported the Ministers in the political etpediency and necessity of dissolving the Parliament. Eaclusively of that measure. even were it wrong. he contended that it would be a breach of duty in them not to have hosed the Order of Council. He opposed the Catholic Claims, not only on the grounds of policy. but from fixed pinciples of education, and hoped and prayed to OW, that they might sever be grant. ed. as he would consider even the era threatened from Bonbparte a less calamity. Lord REDESDALii took a view of the several civil states of Europe, to /hew the evil e&fts of the Catholic Church upon lile2rty. He said tlat the Irish Catholics were the dupes of a faZtios, and would never have betrayed any discontent but for the artifices of designing men. He added that the contagion. hal spread tram the Irish Cathciics to those of th i s country._ Lord GRKISIVILLE shortly, in explanation. de nied th4P he val any idea of changing the Esta bhuhed Iteb;zion of Ireland, as charged against him, by what be (wilt call the heated imigincion If the Noble Nord (lord Reiesda:e). But he repeated, that fe eoncessi•ins to the Roman Ca. Llli.:. of Irelsni e!sary to the security of both countries. Ral of ICINaH NI3HIRE enter ed into a lung nod•cation of the Irish Parlia ment► selich, he as.. tied, had been unjustly at tacked by the Noble I3iron (Lord Grenville). He warmly supported the present questions, upon gene.. rat principles; and in conclusion observe, that at such an awful crisis as the present, every man was bound to do his duty, afiti he should have felt li;o1- selt deficient in his duty, had he not made th , few observations. In the hour of danger vre:y mu► should be at his post, he trusted he should he st his. and Th.:tight the Nubla Bdroll'll post wds where he then sat. • kird GRENVILLE, again in teply, said, hewn highly nattered by the post of honour his Noble Friend had mired-to. him, but be mast deny the charge of throwing oat aay aspenions against the Irish Parliament ; on the contrary, he approved highly of their conduft. He again repeated what it was impossible he could ever forget, being t oo deeply engraven on his heart, and that was the necessity of making ample concessions to the Roman Catholics; it was his 6rm sonviaion, and he spoke from the most mature deliberation he was capable of bestowing upon the subjeft, sb a ; that measure was essential to the malty, peace, and harmony of the rPvlnt. The Earl of WES rMORELAND strenunody suppnrted the measure ; and the Q testion ocizg loudly called for, the 13111 was read et second time without a division, at. t ordered to be committed to. morrow. Llrd HOLLAND then gave notice, that at acme &tare stage of the Bill, he should prepose as alteration in the preamble. The other orders of the day were then dispros4 of, and at Half-past Oast o'clock the Hours ad journed to this day. HOUSE OF CMIMONS. IMMS• • Two new Members were swore and took their seats. This being the last day for presenting Private Bills, a•great ouni,ier were brought up and read a first Cube. The 3.000,0001. Exchequer BiUs Bill, and the 1400,0001. Exchequer Bills Bill, /were severAlty read a third time and passed. NEW WRITS. A new Writ was ordered for the Borough of Dorchester, in the room of the Hon. Cropley Ash ley Cooper, who, since his Eleainn, has accented the office of one of the principal Clerks of the Ord nance. Also a new Writ for the town of Youghall, in Ireland, in the room of Lord Boyle, who, since his Eleaion, has been called up to the Howe of Pam Also, a sew Writ for the borough of St. Mawes , in room of Shepley, Esq. who being else eleaed for the town of Flint, had made his eletliots to set ve in Parliamer.t for the latter place. Mr. FOS I'ER (the Chancellor of the Eschequer for Ireland) gave notice, that he would. to-morrow, move for a Committee of the whole H lust to take into consideration the necessity of vesting in thi Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, for the time being, power to issue, from the public money, sums for don purpose of ereaing Infirmaries in cities, counties, and counties of towns, in that part of the United Kingdom. Mr. ST RUTT called the attention of the Home (pursuant to his notice) to the Standing Orders of the House, respeaing Turnpike Road - Bills ; and. after a few observations upon the necessity of the measure. moved, , s That it be referred to a Core mittee of the whole House, to take into consider ation the said Orders respelling Turnpike Road Bills, as far as the same related to listintates, to be annexed to Petitions to be presented for such pur poses." Mr. COCHRANE JOHNSTONE gave notice, that he would to-morrow move for several aCCOUI I3 respeaing the clothing of the arm y. kc. also of all sums of money issued upo ts• it account, from the sth December 1805, to the December 1806; also the amount of securities to any agents for advances made upon this account, and the several *urns of money issued as compensation for their trouble • together with the mont hl y advances, the names of . the Army Ageuts, the Funds app. p shle to the Volunteer Service, ke. &c. Ana he further gave notice. that he would, on this 4Ay Isennight. move for a Committee ion wircle House, to take the same into consider I , ooe's LAWS. Mr. Whitbread brought up a Rill for promot and encouraging industry among the labor:: classes of the community, particularly among t; necessitous plot. which was read a first time. Mr. WHI !TREAD then rose, and expresse his sorrow at the necessity he was under in pis: poning the second reading of this Bill, for so be,. a time as until this day fortnight. But it OW cessary for him to go into th e country upon his , ' ness of importance to the county to eroich cone! he hM longed. He als o took this opoortunit,, in quesice of the very melancholy intelligence rect. 04 from thz Continent, within the last few days, se His Majesty's Ministers, whether it was their tion to make any immediate communicrion House upon this subj.& Sr to bring f,reard pro p os ition res:ietting the defence of the cour It such was their intention. he hoped such a n.* :, sure would not be brought forward at well in himse lf m ost nc., • many other Members as airily be absent. Tin of the EXC HEQt::. CHANCELLOR replied, that it was the intentices of Ms Noel: : ' i