The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-05-22 00:00:00

Mr. Hone, were removed in an open cart, handcuff• —werm—mgerraimmourea • aeure might hase.teen galley of great offeoces • ail Silght be, tn• het, y tab abatdonitd• ebaracteme thh Wailes, it was not thought lamp* I. • send t hteektieller in the sum cart with poisons whoJ As lalght Wye coternittedifillotty. When they arrived et' jall„ ., thsty lowa sit twiddled together, and lodged • • olt.tie we* towel." tittered then moved by the Solicitor of .‘ -.web* putout in question,' that they should be brought lotiverliasefy se HIM. They were not able to int. beitient were 'therefore sent. - bick to privon ; bet afterwards, In the moeth of September, they were Alteberied on their own reciiubtances. Hating Hsu submitted • to the attention' of the Huse the eases of tlimittiolidivideals, he. felt himself bound to say', 'that' he belibirea there something in threpopits 'high be theft held in hie band, that might • oaf be pstrfectly true. Some matters, Ihitlielleved, ▪ lisight be rather overcharged, or mistakeh; if net in. 9/'' '4oll4 intreo. hires ceftain „however, that trait see,- ' • had been exercised: v it held, that It wield be ihr‘ • tifeetini Hit Hese a the se to dwell On the a -a Isieht, that Inftithonria:itt before doaelctles wee not iar . • 'ttfrded foreny °thee pitmen than Affieestody. If gni ',Mergers gel:wadded; If the poisons' vita pitt into Stibjected tete' , speties• Of •putiithittent, it ' 'Vas eof °Myofibril, but dlsgrecefel to the cot:titre el - law/WA itotlived== reproach to the ageirs which we ai inittt been.' •'ll4 'begged 'pardon of the Hattie for bating detained them so long on these two cases.` He oNiestifiFtfehelisldbMille the third—the cue of Robert ; and, with respect to the so 4 41likh he was about to make, he'conld' as • if* he entertained no - doubt of its being correct, as he bad employed a professional person to *admen., its tiscertaht the strict truth. ltehad also Jeatifillikeldwitleif hithself. It' appeared, titen. 4 that •in the month* of March, 1817, about • 111 14 *Hviriftlfsck at night, • ititen'4lV. Swindells and his helefeeeteliii was tight Mentlit'Seittowith child, were in efittrti'distatteirb'y.* Ithirsk at the door.— . Mr. Swindells looked out of the window, and saw deOred him to come down sod they:would force it. Alarmed by I (l4 4 tes and opened the door, itienOilted for persons who they thehOuse. A strict search was titt l oo persons werediscovered. _ opeo„oll the trunks, took several ibglit o tind stripped Mr. Swindells of '••*lliNat t!iiooged to him. The alarm - wife were so great on this cc emir recovered from the el s :of April she was delivered An the 28th she died. On the child 4 deprived of the care and ter, expired. Mr. Swindells him : various hardships, was at last ling been brought to trial. flare, lestance of the tender mercies of ,vernment, auother example of per. hoot having committed any crime, mist any oppnrtunity of proving Sects cases of injustice could not • powerful impression on the minds Ought it right to state to the Individual whose case he had just a old seaman; be had been eleven rice, during four of which he was on Paris, blockading the squadron at now put it to them, whether, 'etitioners had somewhat coloured hose cases did not deserve the )n. They were about to be sent _ ..uents ;, and would they return to igma on their characters, that when people were imprisoned by Magistrates, ender the sanction of •his Shjesty's Government, the House r, shut its ear, to their Petitions, and refused to lasti. tote any enquiry ? Leaving them to answer this gentian by the vote which they would give to-night, • be should now conclude with moving, 4 ' That a Se. lect Committee be appointed to consider the Petitions * 6f J. B: Mellor and S. Pilling, of Warrington, and ~ of R. Swindells, of Macclesfield, and to report their opinions thereupon to the House." The question having been put from the Chair, Mr. DAVENPORT said, that he knew something of the case of S.siodells, with regard, to which he bad received a ',tier from one of the Magistrates who tisited the Petitioner's beau spots the night of the "loth of March. This Letter .the Honourable Gentleman rend, !ain so low a tone that we could not collect its contents. We understood the writer to affirm, that no violence was offered to the Pe titioner or his fealty upon the night -alleded The Honourable Gentlemen added, that. knowing Mr. Cooper and the other Gentlemen who entered • the house of Swindells,. in consequence of informs tionlinit some disaffected persons, who had that night come armed from Manchester, had taken up their lodgings there, he could bear testimony to their • character. On searching the house they found sere. Ad seditious and blasphemous papers, which they ad. wised the Petitioner not to publish, but still be con. tinted to publish them.--fie (Mr. D.), however, "kneW the Gentleman complained of to possess great benevolence, and to be as incapable of committing . any act of cruelty, as be himself would be of de fending such an act. • Mr. BLACKBURNE stated, from the authority of the Magistrates from whom he bad this day cows menications, that the two other parties had received whilst in the workhouse; every accommodation which' the place afforded—that their removal to prison wet not attended with any unnecessary rigoor, they be. ing placed in an open - cart, and connected together. l for the sake of security, by a light chain. Their situation also in Preston Jail was stated to be as, littfe irksome or inconvenient as it would have been hail they been sent to Lancaster Castle, for that jail was at this period, In common with others le the neighbourhood, excessively fell. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL copt9dgd, tbet the GI iry At at. Redacting on the dewy _ occasion, and the' consequent additional imprison meal it might impose ,en .the petty,' be immediately soot- down an order, offering them a discharge ou their awn recognisance, to enter plea in the Cold of King's Benef on the erst dry of .the next Term. If this offer was for a time rejected, be was not the cause of it, bat the party or parties wise obsileately refused the indulgence. On the subject of thiecom mittal by' the Magistrates, the Hon. .Geoelemen ds aied that they bad iettierity to commit In this wean- Wer,before trial, to the Hoetwof Corrtitioiir. Now, on this point, be (the Attorney-General) afield only say, that this power l eaiyted by airtime( two Sta tutes- end further, ,vital ll sea s e given, because it fa voured the keened: lo many counties there wis •only.onejail, cad thatperbapit at some distance, bet in every piece Almost there was al workhosae; so (bat the inclosed; Indus% of, possibly, being removed to a distance, :hid the opportunity ef remaining in their own immediate neighbourhood. He Was will !nits Omit, that if Abe parties were before trial pot %n herd labour, such putting would be a stretch of the hear !]. —bit auder the 2241 George 111. c. g 4, they might be set to easy work if they were supported at the expence of the country, and they were entitled on their discharge to half their earnings. In stating thus much he was ready to add, that he had lately, and for a purpose quite oncost. fleeted with this subject, considered the Statute, and be rather thought that it was not open to universal application.—[Loud cries of Hear, hear, hear!] — This he was free to say. But let the House look at the sort of labour to which these people were pet— to pick a couple of pounds of cotton per day. Was tbis consistent with the assertion that they were sent to the House of Correction merely for oppression, and put to hard labour ? As to that part of the case of Swindells, for a libel, all he should say was, that no man had been prosecuted with less severity ; he had never been arrested (as was said) by a Magis trate, or by the authority of one. He (tbe Attor. ner-Genteal) felt it his duty to have filed an Es. officio Information against him—no warrant what ever had been issued but the ordinary law process by subpoena; he had merely a notice tp appear, arid no more-401es of Rear, hear, hear !]— end in default hf his appearance, an attachment was issued against him. This attachment was not issued from the Crown-office until thirteen days after the 6th of June, when he was bound to appear. When taken up for this contempt, it was troe:he applied to the Mayor, who answered (aod truly) that he knew nothing of the cause of the, arrest. The party was by this process, merely called upon to enter an appearance, no recognizance Was either given or wanted, and an offer was made to him that if he was unable to bear the eapence of coming to town, he had only to authorise the Solicitor for the Treasury to enter a plea for him, and he should have a copy of the information gratis, with a otrpersedcas byre. turn of post.—[Hear, hear!]—so in his case there was a complete relaxation rather than an aggravation of punishment. No» as to the domestic sufferings he ststed he had endured on the 10th March, he begged, on his honour, to state, that he never heard of them until lifter the process had been issued.— [Hear, Roar IF -It was right, however, in justice to the Magistrates, tweed the attention of the House to the circumstances attending this part of the case. It would be recollected that the 10th of March was the day when the persons called the Blauketeers had set oat from Manchester, with the intention of pro ceeding by two routes (Stockport and Macclesfield) to London. At Macclesfield the greatest beads pre vailed among the lower classes on that day, in the expectation of one of these bodies, and the Magis trates had the greatest difficulty in preserving the public peace. On the evening of that day a body of 1000 of these Blanketeers entered the town, and the leaders or delegates of them were said to have gone to the house of Swindells, who was said to have been acting is concert with them. The Magistrates went there merely to ascertain the fact, and seeing some of the Political Catechisms in the place ; and other inflammatory publications, they certainly car ried them away. Ile did not justify this act, or mean to say that it was legal, but theitiate and site ation of the place wriald, he thought, plead much in extenuation of the Magistrates, who were at such a crisis responsible for the peace of the tows'. Then again as to the ill health of the wile; this was tree, but it was equally true that bee indisposition was not caused by this visit of the Magistrates; for he, hid seen an affidavit from the surgeon who attended . her `for seam time previously, and who deitnibeit her to have been in a very weak state—rllerer, hear n— and further, he had information from her fellow work-persons in the manufactory, that While ehe worked there after this matter had occurred 'they never heard her complain of this as being Pitt+ . the cause or the aggravation of her The man also bad gone so far as to say, that his wife was refused medical aid; now, on the contrary, he Could prove, that a surgeon continued to attend her until the husband told him he might spare him self further unable, as he bad got her into the Dig pensary.—(llser, hear !)—Tbis man was again con tradicted, when he said, he had been kept on bread and water for months, whereas the fact was, be had the general jail allowance which the debtors had in Chester Jail, and which was substantial food.—. -(hear, hear!)—When. such evidence in direct contradiction to his statements were given, where was the necessity of going into this enquiry T—(Hear!) Sir S. ROM ILLY conceived this to be a most Im. portant question, and one which involved two great and paramount Privileges—be meant the freedem of the press aid the liberty of the subject.--(Arear, hede!)-11, deeply regretted the feeling which the Hoes* seemed disposed to manifest on a question of suck vital entered--he totAd not bat espies. his astonishment that they seemed disposed to - go to ditigoa with so little ammo, ea paints duck 4114111lhe—(Thierfuiskil !) Ile had a tined it as if it wow a charge brughterinst- himself, which in fact wits not, viy .. is "Itiltlict'in removing by certiorerf,'l4 brae would suppose that, If object were - to - suppress the libel and punish - the libeller, the proper . collies would be to proceed* once against him, And not let the matter rest it l Aisse, and afterwsrds, Mike the libel by a distast pew. relation. Bet the greet question wee, in the Inn In it loedithe' men •!With irons ,wbe seek 'merely chaqged with publishing a political libel.-4-(llsar. )1 s i This outrage was so monstroes, diet but a few y - 1 ago no man would bate 'believed tech as occerre , I could have taken -place. The Meetber foe I ~1 ceshire (Mr. Blackburn.) bad, in titer excalpatoep l letter,(as he called it) which he read, gently allud4 to this treatment, by reading that the parties wire sent to - prison " With the 'axial precantions."e-e [Hear, hear!]—The Hew. and Learned Gentleman had called these libels blasphemous; he (Sir Samuel) did not like to hear such a term applied to those pro. dactions, because 'lt was dot warranted by law.— They were certainly, to saytheleast of them, very reprehensible—to parody' the sacred puts of tote Liturgy, was an istromely bad form for the writer to convey his destetation- .of corrupt practices-4 could not be justified, but it was not yet blasphemous in a legal sense. Knowing the liberal sentiments which his Hon. and Learned Friend held in early life, end be hoped still held; it Was astonishing' hew he could have so slightly touched on the real oppres sioo disclosed in these cues—be was astonished how he could have listened without Migration at the *Yews! by Magistrates, that they sent a man charged with a political offence to prison in irons, before his trial. To say that they had acted thus, because he had published whet was proweenced a libel, was to say nothing ; for 'some excellent prodections had fallen under that title,, not Weed in the opinions of country Magistrates, but according to the declare. tions of leading Crown Lawyers—such, for instance, had been the case io the respectful Petition of the Bishops in •the time of James 11.---[Hear, hear !r — See the situation in which the liberty of the subject must stand, if Magistrates had the power of tiros putting persons, in the first instance, in irons, and sending them to jail like convicted felons. Mr. BLACKBURNE here rose to say, that he had not admitted they were so sent. The lion. Gen- Oman then referred to the letter which belted pre viously read, and repeated, that the persons had been sent to the workhouse, where they were placed by the fire-side merely with a chain round their legs to prevent their escape.--[Hear, hear! from Sir S. Rurally] Sir S. ROM ILLY.—" That is what I ellode to ; and did not the lion. Member read from the other letter, that they were sent to Preston J4ll • with the• usual precautions,' end were net these precautions irons ?"—( Hear!) Mr. BLACKBURNEedeuttet‘that be had read such SO extract.—(!fear l) . • ' 3 .' Sir S. ROMILLY then reiiited, end said, that was precisely what he had been arguing upon., Hi denied the power of the Magistrates to commit such an outrage. The single question was, whether the House could hear such a doctrine without in dignation ; or whether, having heard, they could al low the matter to rest without further enquiry: If they dill, what would their Constituents think of such an abandonment of public duty ?—(Hear!)— His lion. and Learned Friend had also but slightly glanced at the seizure of Swindell's papers. Now whatever difference of opinion lawyers may hold on a number of points, on this, relative to the seizure of private papers to take out evidence against en indivi dual, he did not believe there had been a dissentient voice since Lord Camden's celebrated decision con. demnatory of such a practice. It was both illegal and disgraceful, and entirely arose out of Lord Sid mouth's Letter, enclosing the opinions of the Attor ney and Solicitor-General to whet the zeal of the lo cal authorities in their several districts. The conse quence of it in this particular instance was, that the ignorant individual sent forth to hunt for libels, dis covered in one man custody a volume of Rollin's Ancient History, Law's Serious Call upon Good Christians, and 77is Evangelical Magazine—all of which, on the maxim of noscitur a sociis, were seized and carried off, because they were found on the same shelf with the Liverpool Mercury, and some num bers of Cobbett's works.—P laugh 1 --If such a practice were tolerated, no man would dare, like Sydney, to put his thoughts to psper on the public transactions of Government. The facts, it was said, were denied. Where, be would ask, was this denial to be found ? Was it not admitted, that the persons were put in irons before the Magistrates, and their papers seized : The other-pasta- egee,•it was true, in some instances coetradieted ; but he sew no reason why the statement of the oppressed thoidd not receive as mach credence as that of the oppressor ; indeed, aunt as it would seem in political Uses, the former was usually believed in preference—fllear,'hier!] and the zeal of those who time forward to contradict what the Petitioners had asserted, might in some de gree be estimated, when some of them had the her dihood to swede that neither Swindells nor his. wife " had made complaints to any persons whatsoever." ,The Hon. and Learned Gehtteitan concluded by ~warmly calling triton the Hsteitoto consider the situ ation io which the liberty of the' subject would be placed Woos of this kind were tolerated, and if the People of the country were to be told that that House would not deign even to enquire into so heinous an abuse.—[Hear!] Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST said, be thought his Hon. and Learned Friend had shown from the tau, that the Magistrates were quite justified in sending the persons alluded to to the Correction House, and that such 'had bees the, practice in Lancashire.— Though papers had -been seised, the persons who seized them had not gone for that peepoee, and be thought they were oat to be blessed, considering the alarm into which the country was thrown at the time. Ile deoied that them waseity booecessery or excel-. ' sive severity used. Nothing had been done but what the law allowed ; and complaints therefore ought 1_ hal therefore,. no nem far Si th r er S e . " R u o il L b L y r a C and n!rn Mr. litie ..Baadolll4 . mo tif tu r s : il L y o es c p ß land. n i A e irr *emote it privioiri the (louse the grounds on which he meant to vote. lie west& not enter foto- eny &s eem the leptiity or illegality of the prosecution 0 01 allowed,htni e o e n i " o e ocip to t . v u e vo e on g lig h t ae l l a e lf s l oh i p r e a h tn e hd i : ee l eotituttoshhi that o to r r ni h7liyotr hart 2 , b b i w e e w e r ehcareino l e s e i Ili il i ll : 1 1 , ld n e c a b b d u i6 b s ee:ohnne oppressi v elyta r believed yb i that an d o t g ft m: i mp the prosecotio o n b e c i n o s n t d ft il u e t t e e d d ,. o r he publications ought to be repressed by the s cheeks-of law, and'he s*w every degree of fen humanity in the oonduct of the Law Officer, Crown, in -persoieg the legal steps to tep ee . So sensible wm.the author (Mr. Hone). of these libels of their immoral end irreligieemee 'that thotigh acquitted by a Jury, he had Is hi them from efrculslists, a el rcu mifen ce which 1 Lociart) was glad to see. • The Attorney.( haj done nothing but his dety, and he woe support the motion on au i r grounds of milli '•against him : bet the 'pee 2f irons to confine a cited of publishing libele e or of commiltini offences under the nawieiof misdemealionrs, d ed investigation sad e.esterettion, and on 'bet he would vote for the.proposed enquiry into tl bereaddecod.• He thought it contrary to the IA Constitution of this country—a practice uni by O'er anceitore—X practice thet.had , lately c and which, if not corrected, 'might lead. to gi pression—to inflict such a mark of ignominy, posing irons, as on cent/eon felons; on the were charged with misdetneenours. • As the therefore, had got this specific case before the ought to inveitigate it s , for the purpose of GPI gineral remedy, for the purpose of correctil •uppeslred to him to be a vinfetion of the law land. It ought to be recollected, that pent hid committed misdemeanours bad been guilty minor offences,. eod .that the punishment awaited conviction was generally of en sligh tore as to excite no fears that they would ens to escape before trial. it was not necessary fore, to .pnt them in irons to order to keep safe custody; and as safe estetedy, and not ment, was the ground on which the use could be justified, in the case of men who et vicied of no otrenins such a practice ought,n resorted to for Misdegneanoeis.. Another res. against the piacti,Fe was to he found, in the the offeoces themselves, which were often definite as not to be .accurately determined trial. • Where crimes wera.commiqed against that were iceerasoly defined .by law, the 01 was slot Ise'. Wong against any means tention : bet it" appeitrid hard and op' to iron, like fever. roysons who min found by a Jury to have committed no - a though fhe facts for Which they were imprisons proved against them. This 'reasoning applies strongly to persons charged with abases of the than to persona accused -of other kinds of meanours. The Press was a powerful engin being capable of producing as great mischief elegy 'when misdirected as benefit when prows tinged, its abuses required to be watched and ci but offences of this nature were freqoestl undefined ; and it appeared monstrous to in* power of punishing like felons, persons • wh fences might depend on the impressions . of Judi In proportion to the uncertainty of the lie point, ought to be the leniency with which sons accused of breaking it ought to be tr.; fore conviction. To treat those charged wi fishing libels like common felons, or perm demised for offences—to degrade them by is meat in irons—to drag theta from place tr chained like criminals who hid violated II sacred laws of society, appeared to him to be and oppression, which demanded enquiry a section. On those grounds he would sopc motion, and he thought by doing so that he forming n duty•which he owed to the laws Constitution of his country, of which be cc this practice was a violation —[hear '.] Mr. BEN N Err made a short reply, in tin of •hich he observed, that no attempt white 'well nada •to tillittf * the facts of the case ; as ed that, should his motion be negatived, the would not fail to remark, that one of the last the present Housel 44 Commons was, to ral quiry into a cash Mich was manifestly agt lation of law. • • • The House then divided— For the in 4 0 0 , 4 : . • • - . • Aphis( it (eel i ,„ i , 7! 114jority • NABOB OF THE CARNATIC. s4Mr. MARSH, after detailing, at cansi :issegth, the history of the demands in q moved for the appointment of a Select Coo in enquire into the claims of certain creditor Nabob of the Csrnatic. Mi. CANNING thought it highly imp 'that those Gentlemen could go on advancing to one of the Native Princes in Ignorance of . of .1797. He had 'no objection to the appoi of the Committee, but wished to guard hicriself any ptedge as to the measure which they m cots ere ad. After a few words from M.r. Grant, Mr.! Onslow, Mr. W. Smith, and •Mr. Marsh, the was agreed to, and the Committee appointed. The Saving Banks Bill Was read a third t pawed. 'The Irish Assessed Tates Bill and the I Kent's Anneity Bill weed through the Cam and the Broom were ordered to be ree.ei sorrow. • • • The Lottery Bill and the Irish Bank Re' Bill were read each a second time, and orders eiwismitted toonereow. The other . Orden . ' Of the y were then d a s after which the House adjourned at L 2 o'l . , , j r ..... . - • goiit loos m . rtes of 4g No r, 4 ,.., s ,- • 6 , be diretted ags itist th ------- e eslitt ;ace of . khe . •'' ' . - - • 5r.au5ak.r..1...;....... ---- "" -- " --- " - "- 7 M to. Milting irons in otter bases ralrte •- e lons' company and Mom' fare. lie attached Ise ,in this instance, if he had been at ell t ,--- . - ' H i on the * e A n d a tzke j- --- 01: 1 ' . . t i il o ' n:tiopan d othe t inistra n tl o on gr i ou n t n ho s se o b: i l it ,: blame to she jailer ; the blame belonged entirely to ! . * i „, 1 11 io t a e o 41,4' the two Magistva tea. T hear two mess, who it seemed i ,, 1 14 • W ,A to wired before h' r to - kin tine that required to be knOwn w ill e toh re tei;ll a n tr t et hl4 d A y lillill e r A lm ' tr a "' a" ' m - • had " fare saw d f 7 • "se' He r , .- 1: were in he treated with the same persecuting spirit i be ' ._, L i , , , 4 t „ wall a- , .0 , ,,/ v House, and there was, therefore ,, no net ", whirl, the Government bad manifested in the cassia, .h. t.n time ~ , . :, . l it .. sin r ' ' I it Mr. ilone. were removed in an (men cart, handcuff. meet to the Grand Jury et die Quarter Session, who 'object, and when be bad mkt , 1_,A.1.L.,......,,bad!ar!f_1a!j. 1 ad together, and, in the company of several othererfteatirellVllMlSilltrfriallienflitAilt Alai t eat, telcolg 18 miles to trial. The other persons the nature of the charge itistriack billy ill* a chairips tie ski A i.„wilb Whom fry, wore o u t m i g ht h e awn who had of publishing a libel of this nature ought rathei to be were . • s - o lfsegipiaiffretnaw,e, vo l lo o , ~..tAii, Gositte..4tailLibetase the iimiteirei-414.1egleysisiVrsifaits !be ft- tut man in the habit of visiting prisons moat know th a t local jurisdiction, he therefore relSeftedltite cue by ease • ---oeimia...aake _naan_lnifiriaahauut &lamas-foe imisciecaos" .certiorari• Redacting on the del*? whit* this wowid the 4 se.POlßplielsonal, who' d oeitithe door , or the 0/ 011 lbropit , s, he tame 3 ;4.4 reShod in I .m t oil h iciajed in i 711 #1 i?,esery pa rt, Is +-- I .., then tore op, pi.' ..oit of thelli.,4 • A,9 ,tpioperty As .i 4 d„.*riir of the w, r ti es ,that .she ' no he the 25th ~4 1, 114 chi 1d,, , ,.. t and on ' ,_,Altyt. of ay, tho chi . , "option of its mother, f er • If, a fter suffering TA .. . without basin , imtat e ,.. s m . as another jai , 1.11, pfjitsty% Govern tient liken up withou ;A 1 A d sir „,ft , )1 are_ witho 0 hear k?ormence. Sec 4 * . 1 i) . tp make a Very pa s& A'tha'l!!ople. He It 41 - 0 71onie, that the Ind' 14 diierlin,d was an oki • years JO the.sereice, 1 • 11 n‘rO . 4 , VIPP d° P. Breit.' Ho *Oil id n ouppospoishat the Pet theix 'ltelernente, tht toed serious etleolion back 'to their conetitu them' with the stigma 1 _ _ I :X ~i f' r I . N .. - ~. I 1 .. r . "d