The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-04-30 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Aran. 2 1 . In the Appeal Cause, Gilllard v. ilort. Mr. liar 4 Isms heard at length for the Respontii it, end :dr, Richards in reply, when juolginent was deferral lid to-morrow. Tile LorxlonDoek Improvement, the Place and i"..asion Duty, together with many Private Bilh, mere brought up and read the first' time. Upon the second reacting of the Irish Tobacco Securities Bill, the Earl of LAI.; DERDALE moved, that the Bill should be printed, far the more effectual information of their Lordships on .h.subjeci. Tm l'arlsiC ROSSF. thlught the printing quite unnecessary, as their Lortotips were already sufficiently acqoainted with the subject. Opna the question being put from the Woolsack, a division toot place. when the motion of 'Lord Lauderdale was negatived by three to six. Their Lordships then adjourned. to to-morrow (this day). HOUSE OF COMMONS. The Call of the House was postponed to this day Sir JOHN NEWPORT had seen several of the recent Proclamations of the Government of Ireland, published in the Dublin Journal, which he conceived to be a Paper very improper for such a purpose. lie wished to move fot an Account of the manner in which the 10,0001. annually voted for the printing of Pro cl'&nation 4, bad been applied. Mr. W. POLE had no objection to the production of such an Account; but the Right Honourable Ba ronet was the last person in the world whom he shouldhave expected to inure for it ; for under his, Administration no legs a sum than 18,00Q1- w as . ex pended on the priettug of Pr ,ciamatioos. tt was singular enough too, to fix ou the only year for en.. quirt' when 'he expellee w is actually confined within the sum voted by Parliamen-. With respect to the Dublin Jour uzl, the Proclamations were not now for the first time printed in it; they had been so up wards of fifty years ; and though the language of this Joan's' was so , tetimes vehement, the language of those w were opposed . to it ought also to be taken into cons Aeration. Mr. PARNEI '. observed, that Lord Welling ton, when he wi • •cretar-, had candid:: confess ed that the sum rotes: fnr printing Proclamations was applied to the Newspapers in the ititeml of Govern ment. The Account was then ordered. Mr. PARNELL moved for r_ Copy of a Nemorial of certain Cijzens of Dublin laid befort the .Irish Government, complaining of the Wolin Police.— Ordered. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he should move for leave to bring in a Bil/ for the purpose of adequately puni::'lng the counterfeiting of Bank Tokens, and for punishing another offence, which Was now carri , d on to a very great extent.— This was the printing and engraving papers which, at first view, br , re every resemblance to Bank-notes, and were intended to catch the eye of the unwary as Bank-notes. Gentlemen were, no doubt, aware of the fraudulent Papers of which he was speaking. In _ _ the course of the enquiry which he had made on this subject, a parcel of papers were shewn to him which, at first view, resembled 1001. and 501. notes and so forth. They were formed extremely like, and the words intended to mislead being printed white on a bl'ck ground, except when the sight was very good it as hardly possible to detect them. In the Bill which h,2 proposed to bring in, the punishment for •the first offence of uttering those suppositious notes won' , be twelve months, and afterwards finding se. cutity ; and for the second offence transportation ; and lio; counterfeiting Bank Tokens transportation for 14 years. Ile should therefore move for leave to bring in a Bill to punish the counterfeiting of Bank Tokens, and the printing Papers resembling Bank notes with , white letters on a black ground.—Leave given. Mr. WILBERFORCE presented a Petition from the Cutlers and Manufacturers of Sheffield against the ino. poly of the East India Company"; and a similar Petition from the Manufa -turers of Wakes field.—Read ai.J ordered to lip on the table. CIIARITABLE DONATION BH.L. Mr. LOCKHA...T moved the third readiug of the Charitable. Donation Bill. Sir W. I JIITIS approved of the principle ; but, if applied to Loudon, the evil would overbalance the good. Mr. W LBERFORPE said. if London was ex- I ceptt ' every other tow it migntslaim the same excep tion. Mr. LOCKHART wondered how the City of London, so zeatous for the detection of abuses of all sorts, should oppos' the present . Bill. Mr. WROTTESLEY approved of the Bill. Sir J. GRAHAM said, it was only calculated to put money in the pockets of those who were to regis ter the donations. Mr. THOMPSON said, that expenca could not be great. The lion. Mr. HERBERT wished to move as an Amendment, that Royal Hospitals ought not to be excluded from the Bill. Sir W. cuans and Mr. WILBERFORCE said a few words, when the Honse divided.—Ayes 32 Noes it. When, we re-entered the Gallery, we found the Speaker putting the question, upon the motichi of Mr. STEPHEN, that all the Petitions favourable to the Olden in Council should be referred to the same Committee. Lord STANLEY signified his assent. • hI Mr. WHITBREAD said, that as soon as that question was disposed of, he should move that all the Petitions which had been presented respecting the present distresses of the country and the general stagnation of trade, should be referred to the same Committee. Mr. BROUGHAM thought the words of the mo tion only calculated to mislead ; for he believed only one Petition iu favour of the Orders in Council had been presented, and therefore to talk of ALL the Pe-. titions was a mere illusion. Mr. STEPII EN said, he was not aware, when he made the motion, that there had been only one Pe tition in favour f the Orders in Council ; that one, however, wis signed by at least four-fifths of the merchants and manufacturers of Glasgow, and it had the honour alio, of being the only one that was pre. sented on the right side of the question. [A laugh.] He should propose, however, to substitute 44 Tun Petition of the Merchants and Manufacturers of Glasgow," instead of " all the Petitions." 'i i.. - THE STAITSMAN. Mr. BROUGHAM suggested the words "any petition." Mr. rEPHEN said, he was certain that if the country thought it was the intention of the Commit tee to repeal the Orders in Council, their table would be loaded with petltions'against such repeal.— [if laugh.] 'f he Petition war then ordered to be referred to the same Committee. Mr. WHITBREAD moved, that all the petitions which hall 'een presented respecting the general di stresses (A the country, should be deferred to the same 'Committee.—Ordered. _ _ Mr. WHITBREAD then begged leave to ask of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, before the House went into a Committee, whether Mr. Ryland was in this country ? to which Mr. Rose replied, that he had accidentally learned in the course of the day, that he was gone to America. EXAMINATION OF WITNESSES IN THE COM a Committee—a result so little to be expected, after the recent issuing of the Declaration on the subject of the Orders in Council. He hoped that the know ledge of the one would reach America' at the same time with the other, and would hare the effect of counteracting the disagreeable immessions which the Declaration was calculated to produce. The House then went into a Committee on the Orders in Council.. Mr. BROUGHAM, after explaining that some of the most material witnesses were absent from town, being. under an impression, from what had fallen from the Right lion. Gentleman (Perceval) that the Committee would not be granted, said be should, in the meantime, call some witnesses, who were of im portance on particular points, though not particu larly acquainted with the material and leading fea tures of the question. The first witness called was Mr. T. Attwood, High Bailiff of Birmingham.—The House was left sitting at two o'cloec, AA: M a . Dee. 0 - 1 It • • 0 . Cadiz 'l 0 0 • , .1 ' . y .• • • • 0 1 . Jpragy I - • _ :PRlcsor STOCKS Tins DAY AT `OP. O'CLOCK Omsk . . India Bonds par 1 p 3 C per Cost. Coos ßed . 611 Exchequer Boils Idl p 3 enL . uo 4 p per er Ceob. 7511 60 11 p per Cent. Navy 91/ $ 2rnt for Acct. 61j t. n . A. 1j Lottery Tickets MITTBE. The SPEAKER informed the House that it was his duty to submit to them the question, before going into the CoMmittee, whether witnesses should be examined, who might happen to have been within I the hearing of the examination of previous witnesses. He thou& it necessary to know the pleasure of the I House upon this subject for the regulation of his own conduct: at the same time he should state, that the general rule of the Hobe was, that no witness I could be e.amiued who had heard the examination of other witnesses.. • After some conversatidn between Mr. Bronghigh, Lord Stanley, Mr. Tierney, Mr. Ryder, and Mi. Bathutst, - , The SPEAKER signified to the House that he should leave the question as it was, till some case arose in the course of examination to which exception might be taken, and he should then collect the sense of the House upon it. • The Order of the Day being read for the House resolving itself Lute a Committee, the question was put, that th Speeker should leave the Chair, when Sir THO.vtAS TURTON rose : know what was the precise object the Committee had in view ? He ! was not in the House on the preceding evetti..k, but, he understood that there was tw inte:ition of ccdres sing the grievances f which the Petitioners corn plained, but merely io enquire whence they arose. ,If such was to be the case, he thougLt it only in .ulting the complaints of the people, and that such ould b. the case he had no doubt, when he looked at the Declaration issued by his Majesty's Govern ment, within the last week. In Litt Declaration it was distinctly nvowed, that the Orders in Council would not be repealed, iinless the Berlin and Milan Decrees were revoked ; if that was the determi nation of the Government, he n ould ask, where was the use of going into the Committee ? He wished I also to know from another Right Honourable Gen tleman (Mr. Rose), whether he had really stated on the preceding evening, that America would not now be satisfied with the mere repeal of the Orders in Council ? Mr. ROSE stated, in explanation, that what he said was, that it did not follow of course, that Ame rica would be satisfied with the repeal of the Orders . in Council, because there were were other points of discussion between that country and this, not imme diately connected with those orders. Mr . . STEPHEN explained. The CHAINCELL6ft of the EXCHEQUER ells tinctly avowed that the Declaration undoubtedly contained the opinion of his Majesty's Government upon the subject in question ; and he thought it I possible that America could any longer maintain that the Berlin and Milan Decrees were repealed; unless she meant to make common cause with France in the support of principles subvessive of all the acknow. !edged maritime laws by which nations are governed. With re7ard to what had fallen from the Honourable Baronet as to ins;.:ting the Petitioners at their Bar, he thought it rather a curious accusation. if the Go►croment had reftts. , ! unquir . ), they would then I 2rtainly have been told that they insulted the voice of the people ; al.c now that they consented to en quiry, •they were still to be• told the same! The simple business'of the Comi..atee he conceived to be, to ascertain to w..at ca-se'tl epresent distresses of the country was ascribable ; and if it should even be found that they resulted frt.. the operation of the Orders in Council, it would then be an 'ulterior con- 4 , sidesatiou for the House to et:ter upon, whether it would be expedient to repeal those Orders in Coun cil, or to continue them, as the means of escaping greater dangers and greater distress. Mr. WHITBREAD said, the Right Hon. Gentle. man (Perceval) had not willingly gone into the I Committee, bat had been driven into it by the House. The Right honourable Gentleman was anxious to ; drive the country into a war with America, and 'he (Mr. Whitbread) was anxious to get. into the Com mittee, which, he was satisfied, would be adverse frem the views of the Right Honourable Gentleman. Sir T. TURTON explained, by saying, tbat all he meant was this, if the Right Honourable Gentle. man (Perceval) and his friends went into the Com mittee with a predetermined resolution, whatever might be the nature of the evidence, not to grant relief, the effect of .this would be to trifle with the feelings of the public. Mr. WILBERFORCE was satisfied his Right Ilonourable Friend (Perceval) had agreed to go into the Committee really for the purpose of ascertaining ; the causes of the sufferings of the Manufacturers, and the practicability of removing them. The mere entering into a Committee on the subject of the Or ders in Council, however, ought not, he contended, to be construed into a relinquishment of them. He gave Ministers the credit of believing, that in going into the Committee, they wished to hear, and, if possible, to redress'all the sufferjugs of the people. I Mr. BROUGHAM begged the House to bear in' mind, that this was no ordinary investigation. He did not say that the country was in a state of unex- I ampled distress, but, surely, he might 'say, that it was in a state isf unexampled complaint. Complaints had reached the House from all quarters; and be trusted Gentlemen would go into the discussion with I that temper and moderation which was becoming, laying aside all party views and prepossessions. • For I his own pirt, he declared he should ge•into the en quiry with the same unbiassed mind as if by were , about to step as a Juryman into a Jury-box. He congratulated the House on the Resolution to go into LONDON: 11117111iD1 4 11', APRIL 30, lint AVOTHER FLAG OF TRUCE. It will be seen by the subjoined letter, that 80. NAPARTE hits not been *long in returning a reply to the communication lately transmitted by our Gover nment, in answer to his dispatch, received in the be ginning of last week. Would to GOD that the de• plorable state of the country may induce Ministers to listen to the proposals, which, we have no doubt, have been made by the Fazocn EMPEROR ; for nego ciating a General Peace. DOVER, 29th Amur., Isfl, 3 r. x. I am just infgrmed that . a boat bearing a Hag of truce is reaching over from the other side, and I shall take care to be on the alert to pick up any intelligence she may bring. rouß, r. M. The Charles schooner has taken the boat in tow, and Lieut. LITTLE is making towards the shore with the dispatches. RAU-PAST 7004. A chaise and four has just set off from the Mail coach Office with the Lieutenant, for the Admiral's Office, Deal, from, whence the dispatches will be forwarded to London. A French Officer weks the bearer of the dispatches, and is dor ‘ined on board the Charles. Nothing has transpired. Stocks rose one per cent. this morning in conse quence of the above arriv..l. THE STATESMAN. TOULON FLEET. We have not bee). aide to asceLtain whether the dispatches from Sir EDWARD PELLEW, received yester day by Government, contain any tieing respecting the sailing of the Tonton fleet. But several letters, of a late date, from Paris, positively state, that this fleet had actually put to sea full of troops. Nothing, how. ever, is• said as to its destination. - We cannot forbear pointing out to the public, that the whole of the individuals, who attended the Meet ing in the London Tavern, on Friday last, for the purpose of Petitioning against a free trade to India and China being granted to the out-ports, are per sons who have a substantial interest, not only in the continuances of the Company's Monopoly, but that it should be confined to the port of London. In these ' circumstance, and influenced by such motives, it is ,impossible to regard their propos:xi application to Parliament, in anyfother light than ad effort to retain in substance the vast po eats which they at present enjoy iu this unjust traffic, while the shadow! merely is left to the out-ports of the nation.— •We hesitate not to say, if this Petition is favour ably receiied that all the ad-' ) vantages which the public promised themselves by I the establishment of a free trade, will he rendered nugatory ; for it is no difficult matter to perceive, that, if the trade is confined to the port of London, * 4 the East India Company will take care that it shall be affected, by restrictions of a nature that must Fen. der it utterly unprofitable to those vessels, not be- I longing to themselves, which may embark in this traffic. • The very circumstance of these men de- 1 mantling that the trade shall be confined to one port, shots that something is intended prejudicial - to the general interests of the country ; that a monopoly, equally prejudicial to the fair trader as that sanc tioned by the Company's Charter, is attempted to be established in its stead. If the East India and China trades are not to be extended to all the ports in the kingdom, and that without limitation or restriction, it seems a matter of little consequence, whethet the Charter, as it stands at present, is to be renewed or not. To do it away, and confer on the 'Merchants of London an - exclusive import trade, would only be transferring the monopoly * from the hands of one set of avaricious men to that of attother„ while the na tion would gain nothing by the transfer. We lately put some serious questions to 'the East India. Company, respecting the manner of conducting their Seminaries for the education of youth, established in this aoun try, which we were of opinion required td be Wis., _______„ u ach;aliderecteancae,gwiitivaYhaeolato:ftsfhwtreloteemmiirndwfClhhrbiameerriatteotri‘ror!enthw'al:lYoe, ictPwihirefoietse.nutema)noo'edteedoat:i:stwed:rdh:a: o con. too well founded. We trust, however, they will bo able to obviate the following additional queries: Are not all their seminaries for youth in England as well as their other es t a bli s h ments, vile and aim', minable jobs, badly contrived for any purpose b u t . that of putting money into some of their Oslo pockets' Do they vainly imagine, that by making a show of preparing young officers and writtire for defending , . our Asiatic territories, and collecting the revenue there, they can deceive or inveigle either Parliament or the public into an approbation of the renewal of their Charter ? Ought not these, worse than useless, establishments to be abolished ? Art not the publi c examinations at them, particularly at what they hats the assurance to call their military seminary,. mere scenes of mummery ? Of the number of Cadets that have been sent out to theY.ast Indies, as O. cers of Artillery, is there even one among them that has received any instruction on artillery subjects '— Does their examiner, though he be an Officer of Ar. tillery himself, in reality know much more of the proper application of the various species of mil name and ammunition to military purposes, than a poit {stinted by the cotter of a street ? D u he seen any real service ? and ' w ) ity has he not been obliged to go, in his turn, oh actual service, instead of being indulged with the privilege of loung. ing and loitering at home, and spending upwards of twenty years in uselessly ascertaining the longitudes and latitudes of inked steeples, and churches, io. stead of the soundings and exact bearings of the dif. ferent points, bays, and headlands, round this island and Ireland ? Does he not receive from the Jobbing Directors 3651. per annum, for performing about one week's duty? What can more strongly mark or demonstrate their ignorance and stupidity, than their investing a man with so important an office, who is totally unacquainted with both theory and practice of the engineer profession; who, when examined for a commission at Woolwich, though the examina. tiona at that Academy were then very trifling pad superficial, was remanded to his studies for want of proficiency ; and, when he passed at last, was not regarded as a proper subject for his Majesty's corps of Engineers, but was put into the Artillery, with the power of selecting and setting apart such of their Cadets as he thinks proper for their own corps of En gineers ; and thus taking it out of the hands of their own Committee in the East, by whom it use,l to be exercised, to put it into those of a person who has never been instructed In even the first rudiments iof a liberal education ? It may, however, be ose „of the sage maxims of this highly enlightened Cont. pany, that the less a man knows of a . - subject, the I better qualified he is for makiue ethemacittain'ed I trial it. Does not he, in examining their Cadets, ' publicly select five or six of 'them that he has found, Iby private examinations, to be much better qualified than the rest ? And does not he even ask these the very questions in the course they are taught, in ' stead of analogous ones, that are not to be found in it ? And do not these commonly furnish passports for twice or thrice their own number, that are not examined publicly at all ? Have not several of them, through collusive management, got commis• sious, and gone out to the East Indies, without being examined either publicly or privately; whilst o p t r t i , ci er o s utsi w y li r o e j ? bet m ter igh q t ua n i o ifi t L l have been examined ? Does not the ,Examiner arti culate so indistinctly, that if the candidates did not know, before-hand, the questions he is to put to them, they would not understand one half of what 1 he says ? Did he, at their last public examination, in O to c r t e o p b e a e r t , Lit 1 c l 0 , m r e q m o u n i r e . p l a a n c y e t r h a i t n, es i n morethe of of them than course they Care taught? And did he mot, at the preceding one ) manifest a wonderful degree of caprice, and, with who has i o aths,. tear some .of the young Gentlemen's plans ? i Is net die poor, vulgar, gnorant m an , of their military semisary, .ia.l4 constant teaching the boys plane trigonometry, before they are taught any part of plane geometry? And, as plane trigonometry naturally arises out of plane geometry, of which it Is a branch, can any thing be more.absurd ? Is not it owing to this stupid practice, that the Cadets leave their seminary with- I understanding the trigonometrical canon ? Have not the young Gentlemen,"at their seminary, been frequently prevented from attending Divile Service, as well as sothe bratichps of their in struction, for want of shoes to their fctt, and Pan taloons to -cover their nakedness ?—Did the Direc tors establish it by way of extravagance, and do they starve it by way of economy 1-1-low are the Cadets taken- care of at it when. sick ? Are t:.l not frequently under the necessity of sendh.g cite where for nourishment ?—Was it by way of extra vegance or economy, that the summer before tat • n'Y had platforms laid of a great expence in the fie i ti Addiscombe House, strong and large enough for the heaviest mortars in our service, though they were in tended for Royals, or of mortars only, and they have no larger ones there to put on them? Have net these platforms lain there ever since, exposed to the weather, without being once made use of ? The conduct of the Courier, respecting the charge of the American Government against our Ministers, completely demonstrates that they dare no t 'Apace / 7 , • .1 r .