The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-05-23 00:00:00

was mettrions that the persons sending theta, were foestite• plan of the lino. Baronet, not that of the lion. Gentleman. The petitioners wanted what was little short of universalsaf frtge. Bentletnen could not say that an extriment had not, been made nn this subiect. It had been tried in 'France, w bete the Legislative 'Body absorbed the other Orders - of the State. In America, too, the nnstem.had beeo tried, and Gentlemen had heard the Report of a person who had been on the spot, who deelareff that an boors? tradesman would mot suffer one of the Legislative Body of' that country to en ter his shim.. .k ohle Lord too, a Member of the other. House ( Lord Selkirk), who had also been in America, hid borne testimony to thefailure of the experiment in the case of America, and, of course, gave up the opinion he had. formed nn the subject. Ile, on these grounds, objected so the motion. Air. WARDLE observing, that an nttaek had been made' on the plan proposed last Session by his Hon. Friend (Sir F. ' Burdett), not the less honoured from his being a prisoner in the Toner, and having a faithful recollection of the plan of his Hon. and Worthy Friend, hogged to call the attention .of the House to it. from which they would see, that instead ell there being any thing objectionable in it, it wets highly the , reverse. It went to two propoiit ions, the Endurance of Par liaments, and the persons who should have, a right to vote. Ilis Han, Friend did lint press any particular method of ef fection those objects. Ile did indeed suggest, that Freehold ers, Ilioneholders, and others, subject to direct taxations in Church and State, should have a right to vote: and. as to Vie Endurance of Parliaments, that it should be brought back to the legal period. His lion. Frieud certainly did take property as the basis of political power. It was to property that the% looked in the days of Henry VI. when the amettni, at which an Independent Freeholder was to be estimated, was hsed at 401. If they were at this tley then .deavnur to ascertain the same thing, who, he woidil ask, were more likely to be independetit than those who were able to pay the heavy Nether's now imposed on the people of this country ? He had nit hesitation in declaring the feeling of his mital to he, that the right of Election should be regulated by tile prep erty of the country, and should belong to those who contributed to the exigencies of the State. Who were they that now represented the Freehelders of 40s. a-year ? They were comprised exactly in that class of men to whom he had alluded ; namely, those who pay all the taxes of the State; aid who by paving the whole taxes, are taw the most lode peodent body of men in the kin-dons. The-Right Hon. Ono tleman (Bourne) had said, that the Constituent Body had greeds increased. Why should it not do so, in proportion to the increase of property. f t was a doctrine which he ever should maintain, that people could trot bestuxed unless they were represented. Henry VIII. when he imposed taxes upon Wales, gave the people of that country Representa tives—thus laying down and marking this distinct line of right. As to the duration of Pailiomnits. the Hon. Moyer pros (erred triennial. By an Act of Edward 111. Parliaments were ordered to be holden every year, and oftener if neces sary. This rule was strictly observes! from the 18th Richard; 11. and was tint infringed in the reign of Charles I. when for twelve years tngether there were no Parliaments at nll. After this time triennial Parliaments Were :first introduced, and came, at the tune of the Reinliition, to be considered as she law of the - land, althongli, in the Bill of Rights, fre -9444 Parliaments are the Words made use asf. The idea of triennial Parliaments was a sentiment held sacred • till the 'reign of George 1. in the year 1716, when, lasteqd of three -* years, Parliament itself passed a laws' ?Mining that' it should live for seven years. It might heniroed that the su preme Legislature (ammo be hound, Butt if the Representa tives of the People took upon themsettes to desirtin the power of the people, he should condense as-e,et,ahat a mitre illegal act could not he committed; add that . if ever High Treason was committed 'gaited the Rafe, it was in thht very ad. He hegted - leave 'to read to the niMists' the sentiments of my Lord Raymond on thisoccanott.,- B `thrking, Lords: and Colman can no more pollen* a. Peril:intent beyond its natural duration, thanthey can niake a Parliament." Again, alluding to the despotic Minist - ers of those days—[a laugh] the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Perceval), 'night judge how far the words Were applicable to the present times.-- /le said—" A standing army and a standing Parliament -are In instruments to Support each other." The Right Hominr able Gentleman would know how far this applied to himself and to the present Ministers;-[Cries of hear, hear. question, question !)—He asked what loosed last Session? Was it wit then admitted that taxation and representation should go hand in hand? That was all he asked. The advantages to he derived front this rule, he could not pretend to calculate; but when be heard the Right lion. Gentleman (Bourne) con tend unit, when that House imposed taxes on the public, they also taxed themselves he could not forbear Irma think ing that the sums distributed from the public revenue among she Members of that House might account for snnte of the votes passed by them. If all the people Who paid taxes were entitled to the right of voting, he entertained on doubt that there would he an end to corruption, as it would be impossi ble that bribes could he given to so valt a number of electors. How theneould a seat in that House he swapped for a Wei tership ? ( elludine to the case of Lord Castlereagh!. meets a thing would be impracticable—it would be impossible.— [Cries of hear, hear! and question! question.']—As Gentle men seemed to be in such a hurry for the question, he should tint trespass much longer 1111 their attention, though, to his mind, the subject was of far greater importance than they seemed to suppose. There was another reason, why nie was anxious to see n more extruded exercise of the right of fran (ase. It would do away Ike number of controverted •elee lion petitions, with which se much time was occupied. Be tween the reigns of Henry 111. and Edward IV. being a space of 200 years,- there were only three petitions of thy kind presented to the House. The questiolibeingagnincallen for, the lion. Gent. satdown. Mr. W H ITBREAD said, that he rose to express bis com plete assent to the arautnents and propositiniss advanced that might by his .Him. !lend ( 11r. Brand). To the netesiity of a Reform in the Representation he had been unifortalO Mite; he felt that necessity from long and mature reseatch-afolsaiss reliance in the totems aril integrity of these great intikirnies, , which had form many seers pressed-itslAdsiptioa,sas . well as from the innate strength which accompanied the very Prollna ; intim% itself. It • had long engaged the lineation of that House; by Parliatueutits merits and denieritslitid been bete befere canvassed. It had to boast Innis footle the conviction of many great men, who, thouth differinn nil other subjects, in the necessity of Parliamentary Reformation all concurred. it had been considered by Mr. Pitt himself as of the mast vital importance ;• acting upon that feeling, by him it was submit ted to the consideration of that House, anti was prevented Rom being carried into effect only by a majority of 20 votes. TO the intruduction, of such a measure no objection upon the' ground of its being a rash and crude innovation could apply ; and what ewer differeuce of opinion may even now prevail, upon the propriety or expediency of bringing it lanyard, there seemed, however, to be a universal assent from ail sides of the House. to the explicitness, the candour, and the inn titration, with which -his Hon. Friend had on that night in troduced it. Not withstanding the commendations pronstunced by Honourable Members on his Honourable Friend (Mr. Brand) for the illustration of all those quelit ies. It was Winos sible for him not to think, that from some of their insipuations,l his Hon. Friend had not been fairly dealt with. Motives were attributed to him for bringing forward the subject of that n*lst, w hien no fair construction of his language or Inn conduct could warrant, It was charged against him that be was induced to press its consideration now, in consequence of the popular clamour, as it was styled, which prevailed nut of noorao-ibut such a love of duty would not he embraced by him if Sic. Francis Burdett bad not been sent to the Tower, mid 'Mr. Gale Jones committed to Newgate. On the part of hiss Hun. Friend be protested against such a Construction, add be could do so with the more propriety, inaktnuch as he had the best reasoo to be eons/Sneed, that no such influence op& rated with him. no fee hack as the morning of the decision on the Walcheeen question, tbe Hon. Mover had intimated to him his determination of making a motion upon the subject. For reasons unnecessary to explain, lie (Mr. W.) had re commended to hint not to• press it immediately at skim moso ment--om that hekad ceased to entertain she least ilsabt of the .propriety gaits adoption. Indeed, a,s he had before said, there could be no reason for a change of his opinion , agitate d as that question had been for ahnost half a century. lir 1793 , he voted for it; when brought forward in 1797. he took thel same course; and .so would he have voted in' 1809, when it • was introduced by Sir Francis Burdett, had he been in his place, (tom which lie was alone prevented by the utter im possibility from the short interval hetiveen the notice and the decision, of reaching town from the part of the country iu which he then was. The motion now proposed- wisely ab stained from urging an y distinct plan; it followed tbepreceo dents which were mu existence; it was the course 'pursued by Mr. Pitt when be came forward the advocate of Reform ; it was that adopted by the Irish Parliament, when that Assem bly a ere impressed with the necessity of correcting the pro; veiling abuses in its own Constitution. Such also was the eoune recommended when he had tint the opportunity of ea . pressing his opinion on the subject, at the period when it was introduced by his Dear and Noble Relative ( Earl Grey). True it was, that at that period, one of the great and stre nuous supporters of Parliamentary Reform changed his opi nion upon it. Mr. Pitt, the Minister of that day, struck with the awful coange that had taken place in the political situa tion of Europe, Affected, as he said, by those changes. com bitted with certain appearances in this country, then called upon his Noble Friend to retract the notice he had given of brining forward that question. But whence sprung the ob- 4 ' ' Yee Of• • "' ice 7- i. :It . ''er as it that he had `ahead bls Opinion . pon the intrinsic merits of Parliaineetary Reform ? Was it that lie felt the ateumepts far its adoption iem cogent, or the •effeets to follow (rota its accomplishment less salutary ? It was nos such thing. He objected' to it not upon any grounds attaching or deducible from the measure itself, but grossing not of causes eisae - eiker extraneous. Ills opposition to it Cannot be conslierellas directed to the merit of the measure , hut to the particularity of the season when it was introduced. A Right.llop. Gentleman uppbsite (Mr. S. Bourne) had thfit night vetintipely asserted shut the principle of. Reform had been tried in two different parts of the world, and that in both the experiment had failed. Ile (Mr. W.) begged leave positively to deny it. Reform bad not failed, because fte form never hail a trial. [Hear, hear!) .In America, so tri umphantly referred to by the Right Ann. Gentleman, (and a here he could find adthority fir the description he had given of the Members of Cotress, he (Mr. W.) was wholly at a loss to ascertain) the experiment had not been made. There it was Creation, and nut Reform. - that had taken place; and, what an awful admonition to that House must arise from. inquiring what the causes were, which forced ern America the necessity of that Creation! Ail the evils which accompa nied that unnatural contest—all the calamitous consequences which first tore America (rain England, and scattered the seeds of future desolation threu„eitout the whole earth , might have been avoided, if the British House of Commons had' been reforined. To the corrupt constitution of the Partia -1 ment, said Mr. Pitt, was to be. attributed the alienation o f 1 the Colonies—the disgrace of the parent country. It could not, therefore, be said, tbat Reform had failed in. America ; bait it was ton manifest that the want of Reform in-England had forced America to the necessity of a political Creations., Which, so far from failing in its object, had far exceetledthe extent of human hope—exceeded, inasmuch as it was the, work of one of the greatest and the best of men—of that Pa triot (Washington), who communicated to the ; Government he had reared a certain portion of the purity of his own lip. sullied life; inasmuch as it has grown from the weakness of • Infancy to the strength of manhood, engaged in all the per twits which lead to greatness and tit po w er —capable of exist ing mein its own resonrces,.and too likely to become your future rival. [l.lear, hear l) If such was the "case auto 'America, bow was the amertion of tie Right Thin. Gentlemen 'borne out by a reference to France? Can he alarm, that even there the experiment of Reform was once tried ? Un ' fortunately for Seance, for Europe, and humanits, Reform was refused. To all atiplications for the redress or Mime , to every proposed amelioration of the system sof its Govelos meat. the answer of those then in power in that country uni formly communicated denial-until th'ose !Metals terminated in the overthrow of the French aloriarchy. llitte. hear!) Taco followed the horrible catnlogne of miseries some few in that House kid predicted, tout which so many. of those wlto then would not believe, have now lived tome so lamedlithle realized. [Mar. hear!) When then seth instances mere plain to their understandings was it riot imtitraL that many j ISIMIS in the country should ' now look to a Reform in that 1 House, impressed as they were with the opinion, That neither thi Amertcan nor the French war, both events so replete with ma'amal calamities; would never •have, _taken we if that House. had been . fairly coastitutediati A ' lkit'S Owe the , feelings suid the wishes of the pen le? a tina,naturat, whet) men contemplated the disastroes cathpitigris, the fruit • lees expeditions,, the lavish expenditure 'of the nation's blood and of its means which characterize so' the political history of latter times, to attribute' iuclt eNects to. the want of that constitutional influence a hide; he cannery sbriul4, potent; over the conduct of its public servants? 'When they' taeldieisterial majorities ready to *defend even, rash wojetkof wet—to screen every delinquency—to twiner, every malversation, and to refuse every popular appeal for redrets—can it be a mat ter of surprise to that House, to find the cou n try aniiiius to correct that which they cotaider the menu °tell Jae .nattonal evils, namely the imperfect Representation of the People in the Commons House of Parliament I Theft how was that re wetly to be effected? It was:to biefeetedes his Dim. Friend said, by looking into the priuciples . ,Of the'('onstitatioo, and applying theta to present cireetnannees.. It'wns by giving to the people their due influence in returalegnien to that House who came Vote the Representatives of time country and out of their-own mouey. But the Right Hou. Gent. opposite has said, that the Peers constitute a virtual representation of the people. Did he forget the mutter in a hie!, such honours and dignities have been to modern times too frequently bettowed? Did he believe thatahe more the Peerage was diluted its honour was proportionably increased ? Without any invidious applica tome he would suppose a case of a great independent emii tanner, from many causes pnssessed bf considerable halm . ..ore • in that Hoesesandin the . couittry : to get tire support of such a man became a 'emit object with the Minist. r- of the Day, '. How retail ha mare factually proceed to twerlinplish ais. ' :pitipose thaekb hiacithg out the honours of the peerage_ as the reeompface'? Mimic tints excited no very commendable feeling of ambithin, and with the facility of sayhig testate on both sides of a public questiou,"• which die almialpreifor Yorkshire (Mr. Wilberforce) had stated Reconireet to a greater writer, to exist, 14ss it not very peehitbleta suppose that by such a pursuit the of the l'temiglt lei- ht be exerted to eatirupt the other Inanch / Wag there )set same ground forebelieving that which had been often estettedeil, namely, thar.stick 'an 'instrument haS the Hattie of lairds beeu made ts.egtually to suck at the besthlood if Pfuuse of Commonir From the operation of Mich curst he -eese or Lords continues no longer what the C iliStitiiii•Sif Weeded it, whilst the Commonsatands in need otreformittfon. In °moldering the mode of that reform, it was imporible tie overfiiiik the consequences which followed tram teen Misting Theo way into that House by time nomination of Peers. Cdne I skier the retationstiip in which a person thus retained stands 1 with a representative scut by a portion of the population of the Cou..try. The latter stands forward for the tam choice of his cone - tittle/la. Hetakes Ills place in this House unfie. weed. If circriaistaeces should arise on which his Constitu ents express their opinion and request his support, what is his alternative V Should he even against his own judgment acquiesce with them Or vacate his :-eat ? ' [No r flu, and sane ntunuare front the Ministerial . BiacAes.] _lt. Gentlenien would wait, they should learn his opinion, that was,•thet the representative *mute hound, Whutever view he took of the question,` to vacate his seat. But what was the castor a Uomineted Member on a pluching question L •Wie fi e. not bound either to vote with' his patron into verente 1 The tat ter was the uniform practice when sueir eircutuStances arose. That iii the one ca.e you refuse to pay what some, rotaidered a legal debt, whilst there exit no objection tet diseharge the other, which might be termed A debt of , honour.' . Such a mon, whets he took his place in that House, 'came not as a representative of the people, but as the delegate of the no blemma Lie was aware that men of the first talents' and strictest integrity were in that Way returned,. and that; the present state of the representation, tbey oink' not &oat many ceases nbtain seats inanothee Mender. But the system of his Hun. Friebd had the atbirioteee of affording :itch men opportunities. And though it took away taeut nomina tors, it opened for t y places, where they .could, from their talents mid their character, establish claims to popidarr a li port. But it seal said; that iu' that House *there weed distinguished offirers of the'Armv,and . the Navy, and Lime yers (o ngu f thi latter a great superileity ), who could , oaf uhe thin seats unless by this mode of nomination. Did not the Right Hon. Gent. know that stove of the.giebt eineated po pnleue times trentoldthehabitalt electing some • of our Na val heroes? fled tie not US 0)41,00e before him? lee' him look teethe city of 'Wettmterter. Was it. not at this Moonlit represented by a Noble Lord (Cochratle) whose great . and Kellett services entitled and 'obtained for him the support of. his constituents ? Had not Lord Gardner, and hetore him laird Hoed, beed thus returned, standing forward as they did to the ?die of the people, and supported by that people in consequence of their professional services? So far at theme tertian of the Right llim..Geot. (Mr. Bourne) applied to • Naval heroes, his statement completely fell to" the ground. There had fallen ftom his-Noble Friend (Lord Milton) cer tido observations which be had heard with surprize. His Noble Friend had• stated. that at papillae elections the man k Who could talk the greatest. nensense was sure to succeed. I Now, he (Lord Milieu) lied been engaged in n great popular anent, to which Character was opposed to character, great I.asseiwal interest to great ontural• interest, and money to money. . ?hi fault weft in favour of his Noble Frieml t 'aed itithotit , feeling Weaned to make any invidious Compatisaljklieivenid ask what could have induced the people of N'dribiSte to*ree Ter his Noble Friend to his opponent, but that" Beth he-and his adherents sOnke better sense, and exhibited More roma lational principle? In this country tlm goad sense would ge neially predominate at popular elections, he was convinced, unless sumo dangerous delusion, iu the shape of a religious cry, was artfully raised to conceal some unconaltutional prulect. 'lt was inunifest that in the public mind there prevailed a great and graining indispoition to that Heuse.—[No t Ito, jeans "natty iferabers.)—That such inaispiesitioe existed, be was persuaded ; and he must apprehended that those wins did not believe it would not awaken from their delusion until •it was too late. It bad been generated by eels dune in that 'louse during the parent and latter Sessions of Parliament.* Many of its decisions have giveagteat disamt, so much, that' in their wrath agaitist that House theyavistild de's:lye it of; those privileges withal to a Donator Coininseis 'bay comfit's- ted they would freely grant. The opposers of Deform en- . deavour to deny that it is the wish of - the Country. They ground the assertion on this, that the people have uot petiti oned for it. Bat they have Nears ago. petiliuoed, anti the rea'init they did not repeat them was, (hat they feel datip waited and disgusted with the dpostleet . of 'their eibisasuce • very Sessions they have seen the House of Coalmine refuse 1 w e re nes f il oTt the P redressPnnef of rof It. h riev i6l attees eY theirhm dirrega fM rd nit ed a t li aod ln P t e h i a l i 'to receive the prayers of the people.•• DIU it,was most idle to believe that they did not wish for Reform in their hearts. Itswecessity beeameevery . day more absetute. Wise Omit cils might do a great dent, but for complete recovery, in his opinion, a Reform in the construction of that Masse was es- sentsallv necessary. What has berm the fate of other flattens who neglected the memo of national safety ? Did Prussie.res form? Did Austria redress the people ' , grievances ? Why , has Spain been the theatre `of htivee and devil:l6M ? Were their miseries to be traced to the experiment of Reform I Or rather, was it not the effect- of the resistance with which , their respective Governments treated every prOposition of res dress a`nd amelioration t i tlad Sicily . reformed ? And What, - notwithstanding the , iheral assistance of Great *Britain, will' be its fate, unless that Government stroll he wise enough to.ac- • cede to the reasonable wishes°, the people? Subjugated En- • rope has fallen, not because she made nob experiments on her' systems of Government, but by sanctifying every abuse, and, perfinacioilly refugee to accede to the just desires of the people; she destroyed the innral energies, and though she placed arms in the hands of those who Might to be her de . , fenders, there remai . ned nothliig of influence over their: 1 hearts whenbrought in contact with the enemy. What was. I tit.• effect of the &idol of ReCorin in Ireland? It wits this —that the -corruptions of its Parliament b.-came Si) glaring 4 and so destiuctive, as to have 'rendered it necessary to merge it in the legislature of Great Britain. Far better would it have been for the reciprocal happiness of both islands, that the coarse of reform bud been pursued; and that the two Independeur Parliaments had been continue;{. When. the Right honourable Gentleman (Mr. Bourne) talked of virtual representation, and its beneficial effects, how was it that Ile• did nit speak one word' of the representation of Scotland? [Neer. kwir I] Did it exist there? , How was it that it es caped his observation? Was it that he-knew nothing of its siteation, ails crying grievances upon that subjett ; or that with the skilfid adroitness of a dexterous pleader, he care-', Ally abstained from that which must have exposed his folks- , ciao. sophistry. Compensation pm boroughs had been ailed ed to to it:he was firClile'lly averse. There was not a fea ture of right connected with such a principle. The thing here Whs . differs.** from that Of Ireland, where compensations were made.. Theveit Wasatimitted by the Right Honour able Gentleman who now was at the bend of its Exchequer, that every thing connected with the Uiiimi was bought. — [Hear, Mar!} Mr. Whitbread proceeded- to comment upon the mischiefs which must Pillow from collusions between the p,trons of boroughs, and the Minister—the one bartering his vatr.riage cif her to gratify his ambition or his avarice; the eithrr the honours of the Croivn, or the money of the peo ple, to acquire. Paslininetstary support. Suppose some great Lord with hissix or seven nominees in that House, slinuld, in the longing of his empty vanity, grasp for those distinctions Which were orilnined to reward heroic achievements—that he should threaten the Minister of .the day With the defection of his nominees in that /louse, unless he. obtained that rib band, which, thosigh an ornament to Imerit, must, when otherwite eons red,. be cootillered re badge of disgrace to the wearer. Has much a case liege"' happened, or was it im possible that it slinuld ever happeti Elam? Had it never oc curred that Wietilicesofasinfilhr natele were MN& fn a Minis.. ter, unless hitc4nintenance sins eiventh Same envisaged tittalie ' work, in whisirwm; Miwever ' blended some little of private_ e inrest, hut fat th e accomplishment of which the public gin s . neY was-la he tnllrely applled ? ,lf, then, such thitiei have happened—if Vie can happen again - who was it that coula mutt deny It to be pro fl igate exereise t eithisse powers which' were Pills uited for far differeot partiwes? Betweeirthe contendieg oeleines of his Honourable Friend and that of the Right Homo:1,1e Centleman (Ml'. Houn*)'pPPOslle, -he 1 (Mr. W.) was placed in a dreadful alternative. Ills Ifs-,I °Durable Friend said, that unless Reform took place, ri triis litary despotism would follow: The Bight Honourable Gets demon was fully persuaded, that if Reform wits *weeded; this country, after being drageed through the vortex .of demos cracy, would at length he subjected to a Military GoYerns , mein. li was not for him to say that either, coneeqesoce would follow ; hot in adjuring th at House to acquiesce in the motion for going into a Committee, 'he would appeal to the. authorities of the dead to strcagtireu the admonitions of the' living. I call .upon you to bear in rentembranee the might V characters with have expressed their, decided support to this question of Reform. The horrori of that democracy whielf the denial to Reform had aseelerated, in Emote, have sub- • sided from' their own exhaustion. England, though hutfettect in the tempest, has escaped from the general wreck which has befallen so many other nations- • Will she not psofit even by their example? Will she, With their calarnifiis.-and their, fate speaking Aolrec with 'Were than 'oracular force, refuie to redress, sod, by such infatuation, hurry to the same dese tiny? Eveute • bate taken places within these* Walls it hieh have sunk, deep Into the kenos of-the people. It is true,-. th,it many of the Gentleniee opposite think the inipression done away; and that the popularieeson is. Slow riehted. If the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Percevall),. the-First Minister of this CoUutry, thinks himself justified 1 by the decisions of this Houtie, keens* allow me to tell hint, that be grossly deceives himself. Let me assure Mons that the votes of thiellouse, which weremennt to justify his ac tions, have.itinoineousiderable degree increased the advit= elites fin. Pa rliaffientary Reform. Thosefears, whith spring iog from the chaeges of Europe in 1192, bad so alarmed the mind againit innovation, now 'rem* le operates All men see' the absolute necessity of-reforming—they see that danger pressing upon them which was so' feared and so expedted w hen nur expiedittire was ten millions. When afterwards twenty millions. How much more- chilling tbe proppecf whenit has been increased to sevent4 illations! and when sve contemplete the awful truth. that ill human resources are finite! There was little to add to the reasoning already advanced at various periods upon the subject. But with re-' spect to the sale -of seats. he ..would contend that, the Man returned by his money could. have little connexion with the public feeling. With.' constituents he Could Bever - Come in contact, perhaps never see . them. .He th*refore had no bias to comply with their opiniows.— He felt and acted as the representative of his — *lool. When versed in the system of Ministerial Management, he would 'not 'remain long .backward in pursuing that Course Whit:hi* observed-followed by se many to their own private advantage. Mr. Whitbread next adverted to the Septennial Act, which, aboraetedly cousidereit t he-thotr.,ht most tyran nical, but which was in some degtee justified by the motive which led twits adoption at the time, namely, the preserva tion of the 'fusee of Brunswick on the Throne of these I realms. He would vote for Triennial Parliaments, and nor regulating the manner of taking Votes. The latter would he a consequence of the first, and without it the other would be intolerable. • Whether tiodet a reform the Members returned would be intrinsically bettei than 11104 e who now sat there, he would not say ; but by coming in under en many popular checks as much good wells& be pradticed as if they were intrinsically 'better. After etpeenting his wislttesee. though not the effis cient Officers of the crown, yet tbei r sle pendants removed from , that House, he cneeluded with observing, that even though no other good was I to follow but the satisfaction of the peo- Isle; for that the exertims should be inade,•Xild from i tis.ac eumplishment the most salutary benefits would follow. • Mr. CANNING conceived the questi , n proposed by the motion to be plainly this, whether that Hawse Manila declare itself inadequate to the performanceof its fun 7.tions,.-whether it should abdicate its authority? ,'The house would, hh hoped, pause heroic it decided in the affirmative upon such a scram. subject. To what consequences such it decision must lead, " through what variety of untried being " it was likely to take bills the House and the misery, he thoirght *mute- , cessary Its deirelbe. 'rind for-what purpose was midi a dange roes experlineitrecommended ?--to conciliate truly not the sober reflecting-part of the pewit, becauSe he -aid not believe any thing of this uatore wus requisite to their satisfaction— , no—but a particular clasa. whose study it' was to create agi-- , Onion and Make a noise about reform. For that class he could never heiltate to express his condoned disdain. They were not deserinig of any. favour from that Mouse, because .for that -Home nethe Constitution they felt no solicitiide.—•lf such • persuos could attain their object, they would constitute such a system of popular delegation, as could out exist as a tco-oixfinate authority in the Constitution of England. An Honourable Friend of his (Sir James M'lntosh) had stated in a production of his, relaying to the French Revolution, that thve a Reformed House of C;lmmons,' and the Crown and e' Lords would he as dose in the- balance.. This opinion which his Hon. Friend and Written in the effervescence Of., . 'oath, he hoped his subsequent ,experience and reflection had served to correct; but he M 110 doubt that such was the Omit& opinion - and calculation ' of those who now so cla sibiaratigly called for reform out of doors. Therefiire he would Isaist them, becauee be saw no good 'that could result from conceding to them, -while there was too much reason to apprehend great evil.--.—To explain the grounds of' ,that apprehension, to 'show the effects of any attempt at the practleal appli cation of theoretic notions of demoenoic Morin, he' need only refer tease ease of A meriewand France. To illustrate the circumstances of the-former, Ids Mon. Friend (Mr. S. Bourne) had already' quoted the authority of a wri ter, who, on his arrival from that eountre about ten years ago, was industrious in proclaiming the baneful effects of a democracy, although of late years, still more mimeo* in supporting those who looked for what thiS writer called it,e- Put in. But those persons Were, It appeared, very laud of .kite io'priofessing a great solicitude for the Crown. nay; &personal VCVOCCDCC fur the Monarch.. There was; bewevor, tinthing A2_ cot .. The Right Hoe. Geldl c i h rha rg nani ti •e: d a . d n ve .h rt y ed the u n p s o h n u t i lie d w e e xtr de a t o e r : extraor dinary logii,•that because we had remained secure atni i stthe ronSub.ions of Europe, we *field think of Reforin.• What a perverted motion I To the superierity of our institatiom our security was to he attributed; rotor upon a change 1 But it was contended that the Rom e 3twold become more a representatioo of the people—mere subject to popelar influence—and it was said, that owing to the wont of that influence tiumennis'evils had befallen the country. Among those evils it was tirged s that we sleuth4Mo have had so many wars if popular opinion es ha ior t f t i hri t i s so d bd u e e art i i i rr e l‘ ig fik h: in the Legislature, while the fact was; and it must he evident to any person who consulted our history, that Mar wars gene rally, for the last century , originated with the people. 7- That popular sentiment protept.'d to the war with America wail u p t o )d li: fl ii i-; a ti s )i f e e ' rc a ed nd () j u t t vi o ' f " t a ita k c s e li Tn n eo f i n tst e • t ri t ti h eli t peace, and his resistance to the popular inclination rm. sari Therefore, he saw no good that could result ia this r, :i y• i s ti at least,froin having that House in subserviency to the pub feeling. Indeed, he could not think it neressara or wit '..-, that the Heusi' should be any closer e it li the Pelvic than it was a t present. Let it be recollected, that it was the extent of the popular influence, which at the Restoration preve t t e a t h e arrangement of those provisions for the smithy of pope* freedom whieltan lion. Gentleman, repealing tio obsemati e g in the celebrated Tract of his Ake:teed Friend (Mr F e e), had expressed his regret did not take pace. A A uk synipn. thy with the People, and a reasonable attention to their de sires, was, nn doubt, the duty and the itielioation of thot House. The people, unquestionably, could reason &tide when they had time; lint as, notori busly, their first impute was feeling, be did Out think it would . ire poti:ic, or f u r t h e 1 treat of the country, to have that Home spil , e so t :l i eu le popular contrail!. Every class ache p ot pi e was f . iv re. presented in that House, and its general coaduct since the R e - Volution, excepting the Septennial Act of the Whigs, te n d e d to a inelitirate the rout dry. Therefore hesaw tin necessity fait the proposed Reform. As to the argument of that necessity which had liecn drawn from particular votes, he asked what assurance could he tittered that similar votes Mould not takes ,place.,,,e afar the desired Reform! He believed that, while human nature wa- unchanged, no cheese is tke Conan. lotion of that House could guard against some improper deci sions. The Right Hpn. Gentleman, after complimentin g th e fair and moderate language in which the maiden had ben opened by the flon. Mover, exhorted the Home to beware hf the consequence of adopting such a modem Be n et t e d . they would not expose themselves to the danger of voting for the Committee, and that they would oot emsent to shake the stability of that fabric; which haValforded theneelves and the country such complete shelter.for ye:trs. without evea knowing- what surtof lithcie.was to he erected in its stead._ 111eari Near. hear: fratli Me Minl,ferial flenekes.] Mt. Tit ERN HY, Without*any with whatever to teakettle House and the.kavv:y , as dust in the halaiket" was a derided Atieucate for Reform.' Early in life, and thiw,,stfli hater i e lif e , he - was 4-opinion that Some Change in the Represent tine of the People; in that noose must-taketilare. Tisfs be believed to he the opinitui and the wish of all the thilikillg Part of the reionianity. lie could .sure the Howie that lie didno! express this °pillion from any look-nor fn poPelnkti, No; popularity had of late fulleti hitt). such bawls, iliat;it was reeky oh ohject of ambition in 'tea mind. It would, is. deed,„ he vain for those who thought with him to start fore.- puttifity , : id competition with the persons he allo t ted' t o . fa ir hearaitpersoqded, that those pe moo is w ortid,be Aiwa ys sate to . riinbcritre theM. He had, iodced, no doubt that if he a o ll his Friends ;sere to decide that all hOusehnltlets smgM to have the light of voting, the pertains referred to would de mand universal suill age,. and. that if all meat terse permitted to vote, thcSe pet-sills would call for the a liniSsion of the wo• meo ; nay more, that fF -the icemen were' admitted, they. .would insist ripen the addition of the chi d reg t o iang.ll, wog hear, hear.. 3 These perste a. therfilre,,fie tsiold sat expect to satisfy; hilt it was his wish to give setiseaction 'to Is e e t ,. her, illisiking part of the public; whom insane: although not se oeisy, ,he !remise naturally anibitioui to deserve. Among such people he limed the call for Reforiii Silvers:lL Indeed, it *MS impossible to mix in Inv society outvote hearing that call repeated.—isithott hearing the evils arising .i.ot of tote 1 system of our eepresentatiou dilated spun—witlinut in fact bearing the House of Commons spokeu of si ilk marked con teMpt.—Egorne riturniurs,j—Oeudetnen might murmur; but he sottedatis decided opinion of what he Inca. lie retitl e , indeed, call upon ani Member of the Howse, whatever *ate of society lee entered, to state what he /scoot atm this sub ject. He did not say that that Housedesersed contempt, ids 'though many argot:omits might be drawn Mow its conduct,. piiiitilarly with regard, to the Core ender, of Chum end the Watchers) Expedithei, which appeared to ac count for the sentiment of.. the public. But the very circumstance of the Right (Moamar:dile Gentlenua op visite being the Minister of the country, and supported y • that House, was enough to deprive it of the public confi dence. That support ouch a .sliiiister could not have if the . House were propeily cotatiucted. In fact,. if it were tiot • ftsr the Scotch Members, whir could not he sate Represen tatives of the people, the Right Hon. Geetkinan must have fails) in consequence of the Walcheren Expedition. Rut of that expedition the Right Hon. Geteleman wouldhave heard more, notwithstanding kit first victory; if it-were OW fir OS case of Sir Francis Burdett. which occurred so opportunely for the Right Hon. Gentleman. Yes, the Right Hoe. Gen tleman availed himself with-promptitude and ntacrity if that lucky eveot. Lucky. it was to him indeed—fur he tirade believed that the Right Honourable Gentleman owed the tenure of his situation to Sir Francis Burdett. (Hear, Ayer!) Gentlemen on the - Treasury Beach might cheer; but lie was convinced that accuriling to their own feel- - .iris Sir Francis Burdett was their hest benefactor.— In the plait proposed hy his lion. Friend, hemaistainedthat there was nothing new—anti ing which Bard not been won- Wellded by many of the ereatest men the history of *biscuit try could boast—among w hum were time great Chatheas aced his illustrious son. His lion. Friend proposed that ssstena tilone which accorded with the principle Hod practice of the Constitution, and which had simply in view it/ reviler that House what it ought to be—a cottstilatioral twat upon'the - older of the Crown, load is sparing dispenser of the mammy .ef the people. • He would c:erefore support the motion; .1, 'thiert,he begged the House to consider the consequence of re rasing even to inquire hen the cause of ad that evil which the tiseople sot loudly and so universally deprecated. ..i.hlr. Iti. SMITH ridiculed the idea that any danger (veld result to the Country or the Constitution from disfr ,nckisine such leiroughs as Olt( Sarum, and justified the public hi with- . - dress ing cm:fide-lice from those a au voted the acquittal of a Noble Lord (Castlereagh), after confessing as he did his own. guilt. Mr."PONSONßYssovhile decidedly adverse to what Wats ifashionahly called radical Reform, winch, to his Wad, Warn ,pothing more nor his than Revolution , teetered himself sm *ittivocate . for that rational, moderate, and necessary system, sitthich the proposition of his lion. Friend had in view. la Diforizsein4instojesauccihj...syskite.m, gs i li i t4 . w i al as fi l t y llyt a tana i ded t ou o t i litt s , the sae thority, or dereliction of its place io the Constitution, would Advance its authority by redeetnitseits character; would add to `the power of the Constitution by aaguien in.: the interest *of the people in its support. There wits molti n g more shave • fel than the venality of some of the luiroughs,suel plaice ilti those tibia) had bet feW Seethes, about BD or iXt- - boroughs 'sere Indeed Much worse theta the tutelage le mites. Boronglts Aetna this desceiptieo Aught lobe done away, oF the,right of voting eteteiyAed. Aldioch,the Hasse had the right of c'reatals new Coepiiirtitrons w ith the power of sending MemberS to their Hesse; foe iliere wasubtlistag in the Law or the Ctleitilettee to do awaythm,right, although , , out exercised since the reign of Jauaes theßecands re use Crown bad not the right of' diSfranchisiog any borouge. The :Grown could give but.it could not take deity, It was for that House to didfranchise when ism* isectieion., abalelrF. Friend's i l d l; s Y p N la f i l , E if th d o i udr iaci ht t i h y a b t r m o a s r hi p ,f a or rw u . it o r f d r valioulondoerbe entitled to the attensiee consideration of the /house, . Lord PORCH ES . FER concurred in the seutiment of his lion. Friend who spoke last. Mr. BRAND, in reply, maintained, that not a single ar- . Lenteet, or shadow of ;tegument, had been adduced to centre yen' the position upon which his motion rested, namely, that that House was not the Representative of the People of En- - gland. Whatever the fate of -his elution might be on this oc 7. skim', he would feel it his duty to bring the subject forwar ds again and again. There were 'indeed certain parts of t oe plan he had detailed to the lionse,.w hick he meant to propose' in distinct Bills in the course of this Sett-ions, if not too late P but if not, he pledged himself le submit these distinct propo sitions to the House early in the next Sessions, and he had ow doubt that - their adoption would serve to raise that Holm* and to invigorate the Constitution, while it would essentially . betielihthe country, and cordially gratify (be people. Me. CANNING explained. The Question being touttiv called for,. the House divided — ' . For the Mobilo - - 115 Against it --- . Majority - -.- 119 --- ''.l at three o'clock. SI air sista.. ()nous iTsfiETT.eiii7l. v at Iv 'rat4olol, • . ... .. . . . • . . . his crown, • . .•., ' • . . . • •A: • • ' ' • • • . • , •••• . _ - ' fi e • ',- Tti E. STATESMAN. . . . -.- 1 r..... ... : 17‘ . 4 . , " • . . . , •i • . . , . . ......m.....-.. 2. 2 ,...._ ......i t_ . .... • . . . ,„ •-•1 .. . . rtillri Or Mr. Pitt! • Was it that he had 'altered his opinion I were gnu supporters of it. They have found all their pelt. new in this plan.:4l was gallica plagiarism. It was the s rj . I son the intrinsic merits of Parliamentary Ref w a s i Was it tines fur the redress of grievances disregarded 1 and In that tern of those who, at the outset of the . Ffent•h Revolation, oat lie felt the arta t uir, far its adoption iegs cogent, or the vet"' gesSiolvs they have seen the House of Commute refuse imposed upon the ill-reted Louis XVI. and as soon as they .. . . „___ _..,........ s to ............t... *km. nen wawa of An munnle. • • Hat it ,was most idle cot him into their clinches destroyed himself and I , i= • J wed tel ye . cei th 4 co evi lev ♦a' of en T 1 M C a lv