The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-07-28 00:00:00

= se d t thil nenal ---- d cat olls future Meals of resource, wines i pt lit at a future time be deemed necessary to infartb. He must suppose that those who were lest of seeking after disant colonial possessions ,et sew be satisfied. He trusted that such was the ü bjet'l of the present large expedition going ward. For his part, he thought it would be the • , t policy to withdraw our forces from such dis t c olonial expeditions. It had been stated in fa rel raising An asiditional disposahle force, that t be necessary to send part of it to Ireland ; a cthe present moment, strange contradittion ! itnisterr were withdrawing the regular forces out of at c ountry ; where was the exigency that called for step, thus leaving vulnerable what we professed be most anxious to defend, and at the very time .ea the Irish Insutridtinn Bill was passing through when His Majesty's Ministers and ushers i n n ot allow that Ireland Can exist for o n e d a y i tho at , u,:h an AO ? But even allowing the pre med emergency aftually to arise, and the French a vow - to coital his forces on the opposite shores. lthisniust be a work of considerable ti t me; it was likely it could take place before Mae or en months i d elapsed ; and supposing no events occurred to meat this, the propo.ed plats of the Noble Lord as not a dapted to meet the danger ; the ballot • Id not be completed, and the Militia would nut in a condition to do that justice to their eosin , ',Lich might naturally, under certain circum. .ces. be renamed of them. When supplied with w re miss, the country might have its name and maw for discipline but how could it reason- bly be • expelled of them to perform the same hievemeors, as if they had been lett untouched Whes the first drafts had been made from the Militia into the Regulars, in 1799. it occasioned id,eaess and drunkenness; and notwithstanding mete prudent precaution, still similar causes would produce similar mischiefs. When the ballot was maned to, it would be in fait a tax measure. and the ballot, so far as rest.eaed the prison serving. 'cold tall upon the substitute. If it must be a tempo sory measure, like the Conscription in France. bes:aiuld prefer a direa, rather than a circuitous made. Ltit be done to supply the wants of the limy, and Irt all persons firm the ages of 16 to 30. be made liaote o se, ye. He begged the Howe to to eider what ha: dships were produced by the Army oat iixseive Dill ; the bounty was raised so high xliat a dead stop was put to recruving. But Ise denied the tiecess:ty even of a progressive Conscription. It had been said that this measure was a major at ow; it would, however, de„; 1:-1 ate into a mover ; in igt it was a mere fungus. He then went over the plats of Recruiting for the Army (.4s brought farward by Mr. Windham). which be defended an.l commended, on the grounds of sound policy, sod tie Constitution of the country. Parliament would stultity itself by raising the greatest pos sible foie, when the danger was nor so immediate, whilst it would pies enr the means of increasing our defence. wneis tin danger war at hand. He Lad beard it asserted. that on the Volunteer Force alone we were to reef OUT defence; but thin was cer tainly a diageront delusion. The Volunte-r F ree, rhino AS the • .somber COT. •,t)e.k) men, now coi..ib,eki t 269,000 ; melt were just as ethe .nt now as ever they vote; but it was impossibst ••1 have the same men in the Volunteers and in the Militia at the same time. It you also consider the number of men in the my, arnuuuung to and your com mercial alsogoing nu ; if the Volunteers or the marine be eiloouralvd, iSTICII could not b. , hid fruity any other quarter ; so that after every exertion in other respeas. he thought it would or impossible to aniintaht toe army at its present knelt. Peace within§ and the tranquilliting of Ire land, would add more to our national strength than all the measures now brought lot ward. •• If " mid Me. Whitbread, •• you can enlist tour [nab Catholics in the army, who are now prohibited from entering it— (a load cry of haw, Ater / from the Treasury ile o r e b. tai L I mean to state. that there are existing in Ireland, which have prevented many thiamin& from enlisting in the army /A cry of No, sot) But, when His Majesty's Miaimers say, that the present mea sures are necessary as respecting Ireland. to have a disposable fore, to send there, then, surely, the present withdrawing of troops from Ireland must be danAerous and impolitic." One thing more hi hoped lie might be allowed to sugg est; he meant, to express his hope, that His Majestys Ministers would nit aliandon :toy epcning that might present itself for nuking peace. Nu time could exist, during a state of war, in which it was a , t "he :0 think of peace, either in a time of conquest • -stoat. He trusted, therefore, that Ministers would b' magnanimous ett.hih to think of peace ; still be hoped and t lined nothing humiliating would be listened to; but inch a peace as could be made with honour. But if war should unfortunately continue. then no thing remained to be done, but to grasp the sword and go to the contest, only considering, that we hive a d4,. e totrou. eaemy to contend with. Should She WA; continue between this county and the Em perJr of the French, as he will have nothing then to do but to tom his whole attention to the destruc tion of these kingdom:, we, on our pan, must turn our 'shot:: attention to resist him; and with an onion of hand, and hearts, and with our powerful resources, be declared be had no fear whatever of t re.3lt. mt. CANNING—I 4 The Hon. Goodman (Mr. i.iibread) spoke of peace; but ia order to treat, whether, as he expresses it, is the osotooot of OM yiest or defeat, we mutt meet with the spans of s.!e:y before we can offer to negociate; it would be ner:esiitry that neither the acceptance of any proper :4,oa, or amicable offer to be made, should appear to proceed from any doubt of our own means and abilities to contend with the enemy. But if the means that may be said to have swallowed up Europe be concentrated against us, be could not but wonder how the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Whitbread) shoald draw the coirclusion be did, that this was not a time of emergency. but it was upon this mis taken ground he had built tree whole of his argu meats. But probrerly the Honourable Gentleman meant, that our military establishment was already such a. war suffiaent to meet any danger; but, if was not that of the Right Honour able Gentleman opposite (Mr. Windham), because Ins military plan was proposed, as one calculated to meet a►,y emergency, but not to meet any imme- ditto danger. But though our - men's he sufficient in ordinary cases, yet they were not each as were quite calculated for the presets: crisis. But it bad Wren demanded, why had not Ministers earlier brought forward their plans t The answer was sefficiently obvious, because they did not foresee the sadden ani rapid progress of the enemy. They felt a due caution and delicacy as to propos. hog any alteration in the plans of their predecessors, and set out with a determination not to overthrow what had been done by them, and had beeu sanc tioned by PerDement. But if the emergency did exist, Cie question wa-. whether the present plan was the best oiia;ited to meet the exigency t Ibe opposers of f.is measure had confounded two dis tinEt ideas relstive to foreign service. In 1803, this country stood in a d If rent situation, as to foreign service, from what it did now, when we had the Cape, troops in Sicily. Alexandria. Monte Video, &c. As to the policy of the distribution of our troops in these placm, he gave no Opinion ; it was enough for him to say, that the present Ministers received these places in custody from their predeces sors, and was it not their duty to provide for and send troops to these Rations! Now this circumstance alone made a difference of at least 30,000 men ; so that even if these places were to be surrendered after wards, it was necessary that we should now retain them. that we might not be robbed of them, or that we might afterwards make use of them as a means of obtaining peace.—He afterwards contrasted the two measures, that of their predecessors, and that which the Noble Lord had now brought forward. There were two opinions delivered by different Gentlemen, on the tendency of the present measure. By some, it was argued. that its delve lay in re sorting to the measure of compulion. By otheeerl it was asserted, that it was not compulsory enough Its the first place. be would say. that there never did exist a country, where it was possible to employ a portion of its population, to the amount of eight hundred thousand men, without being obliged to have recourse to compulsion, in some mode or other. To expo& it o: ierwise, was to hope for an effect altogether visionary and inefficient. But at such a moment as the oresent, when the emergency was so awful. when the dangers which menaced us were so preising, when the whole of Europe was a lmo s t cnnlederated in arms against us, to hazard such opolion, or to adopt such a system, was no thing less than to give a preference to ideal them y. over strong and convincing experience. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. WI , bread) opposite. has said, if compulsion was necessary, better at once recur to the system of Conscripiton, raetsed by the G m vernment of France. Did Pie know that the principle of substitution was ritconcileaol.• with that sys tem ? this marked differe Ice, that whilst th e substi tire in this country was Fe °cured at I comp": rative'y torline expense, he had it from unques• tinnable autnority, that within these few months, the sum of four-hundred guinea* was the altual price for a sahnitete in the French Conscription . But he would say further, that however pressing the exigency, it bad nct yet arrived to that point. which, in this country. engaged as it was in com mercial and rnanufaeuring interests. would justify the necessity of such a resource, as the principle of Consctiptioo, similar to that of Franca. the true state of the question was, that the emergency. such as then existed, called for an augmentation of ont military form. It was necessary that it should be partly dispos,,',le. and not partly decisive. These were foreign possession*, I , n V.,. policy of capturing which he would not then die use, but which being in Inc possession of mid country, Ministers were responsible for re taining them. It had been entire ided, that the in. crease of the year 11103, was no parrallel ; that it arose out of the necessity of an urgent case, and was provided for by a sudden, but appropriate remedy . Sorely. it was no great object for censure, to guard against the suddenness of future circumstances ; to be prepared for these events, which, in all probability, would arise; and of conrse to resent the disadvan tages which precipitancy invariably entails, even on the most applicable resources, when mexpededly adopted. Tl.ere was another observation upon which a very great feeling had been exhibited by these gen tlemen connected with the Militia establishment. They were alarmed at 'the effect which the transfer of the men from tht 'Militia to the Regular Army would have on those officers who bad devoted so large a portion of their time, and mace such a va riety of sacrifices to render. their respoirive corps of Militia disciplined and highly effeitive. In such an apprehension, he could not join He thought that a contrary feeling must prevail. That the Officer who had formed the corps must and would feel proud that he • had made soldiers, not only tor the eye, but soldiers in the heart ; that he who infused the spirit, would accelerate the means of giving it fair play—that the source whence originated the feelings of gallantry and courage would feel no objettion to afford an expansion pro portionate to the impetus. The Hon. Gentleman bad endeavoured to make a contrast where none ex isted. He bad dwelt upon the military benefits which would arise from Catholic Emancipation— Bet surely it was a bad argument from the friend of those who not only could not have recourse to that measure, but who had ailually disclaimed it bat a sheet period previous to their resignation of of Mr. WHITBRRALI explained his opinion on the French Conscription, and on the probable end per manent augmentation of our national security, the concession of the Catholic claims would at this mo ment produce. Mr. MILEY ADDINGTON observed, that al though all parties were agreed in opinion, as to the unexampled crisis of difficulty and danger, yet a discordance appeared to exist with respect to the best and most successful means of averting the difficulties and surmounting the dangers. He felt grateful to his Noble Friend for the had manner in which he postponed the consideration of this measure, bat he was disappointed in not finding him give, upon more mature reflection, a preference to a principle equally simple, and much more efficacious, at the s tow time that it was free from all those great, weighty, and insuperable objections, which were in herent in the present proposed plan He could not, under stash an emergency es then existed, willingly oppose a measure apparently calculated to increase our means of national security; but, at the same tins?. highly as he valued unanimity, he considered that to support the proposed measure of his Noble o by which he was actuated, and would be an aniisii compromise of the pnb:ic safety itself. Woh re sPeci I') the syste•n ii.trositiced by his Wien Hon. Friend (Mr Windham), tie was one those who viewed it as beneficial in its OiN.Tation, and which would be ultima , ely successful in its effects. Had it been promulgated thrinigoout the country, its im mediate advantage would, in his opinion, be quickly discerned. Bur ..e was not a litiie surprised to bear his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham), who had so often, heretof o re, pointed out the dangers arising from the aggrandising power of France, row ap pear to mitt:: light of that stilled. Indeed, when he heard him argue agsinsr any increase of our na tional str?rgrh, he found in me view of his own (Mr. Vv'inelharn's) measure, the hest hirer to his nbjedions against the necessity of autiliary expe dients. %Visor% the whole of former measures were contemplated in their offeds, there never was one which equalled in it; si:cc , -,s the Army of Reserve. It did not interfere w.th the ordinary recruit ing, and it procured, in a very short period, a very great accession in the effective strength of our military force. The present Government were right in not interfering with the military sys tem of the late Ministers, and he well knew, that they not only afforded it fair play, but gave it to his knowledge an accelerated action. 'I he Hon. Member then took a view of the advantages and disadvantages arising from the proposed measure, and concluded by strongly expressing his opinin, that this tampering with the Militia would not In swer its designed object, at the same time that it unsettled a great branch of our national and defen sive security. It began at the wrong end, for at the moment that with one hand the militia system was knocked down, with the other an attempt was made to raise and renovate it. It behoved the Go vernment to take care whether it was not too far stunned with the blow, to sanction the expecta - I tion of a beneficial recovery. Lord HENRY PF, l'Y rose, and expressed his satisfaction that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning), had spoken before him. In the conclud ing part of his speech, he had adverted to the Ca tholic Question, with the view of throwing upon the late Adm;nioration the charge of having en tirely given up their opoions upon that great and imporrant legislative consideration. Wkat was the fad ? In what way did the history of the Me bear upon this grass and unfounded charge( It con tradided it in every shape and form. It was con tradidel ever. upon the evidence of those garbled and mutilated ex , rads of State Papers, which the Right Hon. Gentleman well knew were so surrepti tiously puhlished upon that subjea ; he was unwilling now to say more, but adverted to the plan which was proposed, as a real, permanent, and substantial supply, to our milir.ry force. It was well observed, by his Hon. Friend. (Mr. Whitbread) that the true estimate of the .nilitary exertions ut a country, was to compare the amount of as military force with its population. And upon that solid and true pro position, it was undeniable, that this country em ployed, in arms, a greater pi oportion than any other country, in any part of the world; and a much greater than any other, whose commercial and ma. nutaßnring interests were so extensive. Under the great Prussian Monarchy, the calculation of its mi litary force was t-t7ths of it; population. Whilst in this country, the amount of the population de voted to military pursuits amounted to 4:•13.000 men. It had had leo,ooo Regular 'lli-nor; 70,000 Militia; 30,000 Fdeeigners, and t so,ooa 1411116110. -There-WS, if ever there was a time when caution was necessary in tampering with your military establishmsnts, it was when the country a: rived at .ts natural limit in railioaty means. How then could tare measure of the Noble Lord be r-coueitedr At the emergency, when rho •iug .t to be improved, and its coadithei arnelimated, when the ease allually occurred, where benefit and utility were not only natarady to be expelled from as services, but wilese danger might be the consequence of unsettling it. then it was that the Noble Lord took the convenient opportunity ui making ,those expenments which cannot roduce temporary safety. and were re plete with ultimate injury. But it carried with it the seeds of destruiinn ; inasmuch as' the men, whose time of service would soon expine, would naturally specula... on tie operation of the ballot. They would not in the fo st inrtan P volunteer, — They would wait fort err u; . 5, receive a bounty of twenty and thi: ty pounds tor rettuilingas substitutes, an/ next a bounty of ten guineas toe volunteering into the line. Either at once get rid of the Militia altogether, or do nut inter ere with it at time when the z • il, the patriotism, and the discipline of the Issilaia, would afford the best security for our home defence, His Lord ship, in adverting to the Training An, strenu ously supported that measure of his Right Ho eourable Friend ( Mr. Windham); he consioered it as the best talcelated not only to recruit our regular army, but to draw out the whole force of the king dom in case of any emergency. One obsorvation of the Right Han. Gentleman ('Mr. Canning) he could not pass without notice, when be thought fit to speak of the suddeu and rapid ruin on the (7onti nent, he said, some assistance might have been ren dered to the Continental Powers during the late /ad ministration ; but he must o b serve, that a British , force might have been hazarded wit'inut a posted of success. The first Expedition of Lord Cathcart was not attended with omse conseq.leaces which were expelled; not that the failure was owing to a • want of bravery In the troops 4 their noble Com. tinder, but to some causes which he forbore to Mention. He could not say what might happen upon his second Expedition, but he sincerely wished it every sirens. Lord HENNTICER thought His Majesty's Mi. sisters entitled to the gratitude of their country for a plan which must ultimately secure our commerce, our constitution, and even our existence. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that s one were of opinion that the pre sent force was sufficient for the present emergency, and would prefer that it should take its run, in order to hand down th- fame of the Right Hon. Gentleman to postei icy. rather than adopt that measure which must evidently be the most effectual for the purpose. A loud cry of heir ! dour!) He was not surprised that the Right Honourable Gentleman, whose fame was in such great danger, .nww.o awav-ix mos. con ider cher Itiglt Ho ' O, ,bl. G. n'ir a , u l t n.), be ezr&A' r ale the ,:ny so a. r give tie um ,e If an ,nro-dkate, r•ifeEtu .1, and is.i t ce no .ri c •uld deny that the m now b,. f .0, Ise Was ,'e he c rlcw 14 •d to the c , ruple i of that most desirable b jeit slid •0 mean to • t into a contr ssi h the Right H a G open ~.c Breit effizacy of his plans, but he it, tight there wag pr ..). saiLietit bef re the ' , Ws slew ihat the ord..iary an i •..* add tional forte Aft. had p:oduced m r men, on an v,iage of five months. t:-an al the Right Hon. lee .t 1 man's plans together while the plan propos• Jtry..is ti. oieFriend was not only a be:ter mode ter home , !efeace, but gave an additi•rn of 40,001 disposable men, to go to Ircl..nd or any tAlier destination w 'ch might be thought expedient ; there was the further advantage in this pier., that 16,000 of these men would go to recruit those skeleton regimen , ' which were now 'early useless. He preferred the ballorting for eh. Militia to ballottine for the Army of Re serve; and concluded, by atfi min.z, that, from prac tice and expert:nee. it was evident this mode was carried on in the country with great success. with. out at all impeding the other mode of oreinary re cruiting. Lord HENRY PETTY shortly explained. Mr. WINUHAM concurred in the opinion, that if the exigei:cy was so great as represented. a temporary measure of security ought to be adopted. He would not sacrifice the present to the future, be cause, by so doing, there could be no fu'ure for which to sacrifice..--(A I.sugh I - 1, - e Gentl.men opposite, he presumed, had suffered this proposition to escape them, and they were now proud of seal. ing the discovery.—/ Haw her!) The Hens Gentleman recapitulated his observations on the growing and increasing advantages of t'•e system which - he had proposed last Session ; he com mented open the nature of those obstacles which must. in the first instance. retard its progress, and ably placed, in contradistinaion, the temporary expedient to which the House was then called upon to have recourse. If the emergency, and gswat he admitted it, war to be successfully met, the remedy consisted not in the alternatives of ballot and bounty, the one reciptocally increasing the other. The Hon. Gentleman observed. that he could fitid no other more convincing arguments than those ad vanced by him on a former evening, therefore, his should place those undeniable and plain fags is opposition to the delusive and temporary expedient of the Noble Lord. Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST was against the proposed alteration in the Militia, as tending es break up that constitutional system. Viscount CAS•I'LEREAGH animadverted oa the arguments of his Right Hon Friend (Mr. Wind• ham) who admitted the necessity and greet a gency of the occasion, but denied the propriety of the measure proposed as the remedy ; he complain ed of the hard situation of His Majesty's Ministers, who, by the total neglea of their Predecessors, found measures of this nature expedient and unavoidable. The expznses of the Militia, he contended, were less than those of the Army of Reserve. He want ed soldiers ; he wanted a disposable force. He was not sanguine in the hops of a speedy pence; set' military force was now snore respettable than at any former period, but the enemy was possesed of greater numbers, and more military pride, than at any tornser time. We should be strong enough for either war or peace, and should chew to Europe, that we were in that formid able attitude. The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Windham) came into power, and went out of it, without having ever said a word of the dangers to be apprehended from France. The late Mini. stirs had exhibited no symptoms of military prepa. rations, except some rockets at Boulogne; they had even issued an order to discontinue the transpose service, so highly essential and necessary to the country. They had neglected Europe, and ' , speed. ally Russia, and they now united against the present Ministers, to impede their particular measures, or to force upon them measures against their judgment. Atter a few words from Dr. Lawrence against the Bull, and also same observations from Mr. Wind. him, at half past three the House divided, what the numbers stood Ous— t., e. fur the Au,endment Nees , - 90 - - IV/ 741joray in favour of the tecon' reatiing 97 Oa our re-admisiim, we toned the Kluge 4Er eussini the Order of their further Proceedings, upon this and other similar Bills. The Committal of the Maki.' transfer 8111 wat appointed for this 'lay, (Tuesday), and the Militia' Ballot Bill for to-morrow. _ _ _ Sir ARTHUR WELLESLEY mnvei the Order of the Day, kettle Irish Militia Service Bill. On tht , Question !wing put from the Chair, stns. gers were again ordered to withdraw, but we under• stand that that Bill was read a second time withal& a division. IRISH INSURRECTION BILL. On being re-admitted, they were occupied in the third reading of the Irish Insurteaton Bull. After some conversation, the Bill was read a third time. Mr. WHITBREAD then suggested the pro. priety of inserting a clause. as a rider to the Bill, for the purpose of Mining a penally upon Ma gistrates failing to return Lists to the Quarter See. sions. of the persons employed by them in searching houses; but as this Clause was net prepared. Mr. BRAND, on account of the lateness of the hour (it being then half-past tour o'clock) proposed an Acjournment. Upon this motion another division teak place. We understued the clause was brought up. and ne gatived without a division. On the Motion of Sir JOHNi NEWPORT, for limiting the duration of the Bill, the House divided. For the Amendment, Ayes 411.—Noes 112 ....%Isierity SC When the Speaker put the question that this sin do pass. Mr. Ward, Lord Milton, and Mr. Sheri. den, spoke in an able And animas I manner against the principle of the Bill. Mr. Grattan, Mr. Berea. ford, and Air. Bagwell, in favour of it. ihe House then divided, For the Bill NM. IG6 e At HALF PAST SIX O'CLOCK the Hoar adjourned. • doss S l• .• • Loiney I I id 1 1%1