The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1803-03-05 00:00:00

r z ~ ~%' ~I . I N~ I\ t t t 1 V ~, 1 irk; K' ~'- MIII=; i s sz^ nts.s. l'ot his 5.:A ; n" Jinis Royal Lim With th4 l o juszly anti ti 7 himseit: The p,r..mt was diitsoaly made strpose of sesternation, and was never meant . : :gned to be accttniuiated. I.f, on the other . 4110, ey was expended f6r public service, • tat the Prince had, notwithstanding, now no -' 7-1-n e-thrr upon-his Majesty or the House of Com tin still it v:oulsl44ovv, that now, at finty years : age, the Prince s 4 Wales was in that situation, lie did rretewe one shilling to the public. Ac coiding to life si4orthent made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, fivetHndred and sevent)tsfl VC thousand pounds had, within eight years, been paid of his debts , out of his own revenues ;_ for the full sum settled on him by Parliament, in 1795, was nb more than what was, aleemed necessary for a Prince of IVales to possess, even were he ;nit involved in debt; so that eill - .ole payments were made from himself, and not theriblic. That his Majesty's Message was not a coriaproniise, and hail° connedion with the claims of -ton :o the' arrears of the Duchy 4-Cornwall, was perfectly true; but if it was thought right to a-estore him to' his state a::l dignity immediately, the 'eniPiwY...proferred was lit to be entertained by the House of Coindsons ; its to the Prince him self, Ile felt ncishere a terest nor anxiety about the emitter, any farther. n thi fear of his honor being campremised, if the iupposition should go abroad, Shit he had hint respiyed . the bounty of the House, and afterwards did not re-a.ssume that pomp and state for wlich it seemed to bO intended. Mr. FULLER made no doubt but it was the in tention of our wi.e and prudent ancestors to place the heirs to the Crown in 4 skit:akin of indepen dence on their fathers. Ihis was an example, and a principle which their descendants should not lose sight of. It would be painful to see a King take 1:7,1) Ministers from favour. and invest them with great dignity and power, while his son and heir was left in a kind of inglorious obscurity. All that was now demanded was to submit the claims upon the Prince's honour to a Committee of that House; and he would ask, could any thing be fairer? could he aPpear in a more virtuous and estimable point of view, than when he said that he was NI il ling to forego all the state and magnificence belong ing to his exalted station, until the payments of those debts which he found binding on his honour ? 'I be deduesions made from the fair claims of his zredi tors, must be binding on his honour. Amongst many tradesmen in this situation, he would mention Mr. Needham, a...coach-maker, whose claims had been investigated. Being asked,whether he could mention what was the...prime-cost ? he said it was im possible for him to ransack the whole of the ac counts ; but he could give the prime-cost upon the last two quarters. Tliis -he did, stating at the same time, what was a fair profit `for a tradesman ; the equity of the demand was readily allowed by the Commissioners, and thouht perfectly reason able; notwithstanding which, teey afterwards made him submit to a deduction of 101. per cent. upon his debt. Had Mr. Needham carried such a case before a Court of Justice, there could be no doubt of his having a verdict for the whole of the demand. Ilc confessed that he might be rather too usrm -expres,ing his feelings upon the present occasion, and though he seldom troubled the House, he man thank them fur the attention they were pleased to show him. 'they would, be hoped, excuse the ardour of his zeal, when on the subject of the just claims of a Pi Mo., the most eltgantsminded, the most manly, anci most accomplished in the world. Mr ( ARTIVRIGHT observed, that though there might be reason to expel some such motion as the present, he did not think the House could very consistently go any farther than it had done, unless it-could yet be believed that the vote was, as stated by some geatlemen, a compromise between the Prince and the public. With resped to any aukwardness in which gentlemen may suppose his Royal Highness to be placed, he, with all his re aped for him, could not be induced to believe that the public reverence towards him would be in the least diminished by his remaining sometime longer, if necessary, in his present situation. [Thi; Gentleman spoke in so low a tone of voice, that it was impossibls, in the gallery, to coiled the whole of what lie delivered.] w k Mr. ROBERT BUXTON reminded the House, that the Prince, on more than one occasion, since the grant was made, had expressed his gratitade for their liberality. Ile was satisfied with it, and meant no further to pursue his petition of right; and certainly there was great credit due to him for the manner in which he was pleased to relinquish it. But this was no common or trivial case, and he found himself in •duty bound to speak as a Representative of the pee- , pie, who had at heart the interests.of his Constituents. He did not see that the people were in a condition to pay any addienal bur hens. It was true that we were not at present in* state of actual war, but it would be adifficult matter to -say, how far we were removed -from it. Not one of the taxes imposed during the war, had the cou n try been re 3ieved from, except the Income Tax. He highly approved of the removal of that oppression and hurthen ; but it must at the same thee be sei»ent hered that other very inconvenient taxes on the Assessments were 'voted in the lieu of it. IN kite he said this, he did not mean to complain of the new Assessed Duties, because he considered them as ne-, :cessary ; 'but he could not without complaint and Tesietance at this time contemplate any further bur; 'them. When. • was it that these grants Wert • proffered to made to his Royal HighneSs ?At the very potiod, when a rival, and he feared hostile country, Wasted of havirg 500,000 'ilea in readiness to attecl us, and when it was distinilly stated by the Trench . .t.oveniment that England was no longer in a condhcon to cope sir , Tly with France'! We knew from experience that England was able to contend, and seccessfulliy too, against all Europe in arms; 'brit the time of making those menaces was the mo. ment not for unnecessary or idle disburseineet, but , creoriumv. As to his Royal Highness hifnself, he .conceived that he would reflea most credit on him -r.elf, by remaining in his present situation until his difficulties were removed ;• he would find it 'the .Ineans•cif obtaining the sdtiirest of all theories in due time—that of reigning in the hearts et - his people ; 'Ana urn these gmunds he would take the liberty of oving :p _melons Q4est ion.. OURWEN-said, he felt hinnielf disposed to (concur iti the •fornier : vote of the Holm, on the ,groutsd of a deht anedgd to be .tine fruits the cotultry 'to the Prince of Wales. If 'Ng Royal Wglnzesi found hiletgelfsitillinvohas‘lu debt*, i a . 401 ,_ se.;vence of the deductions made on .the demand! ‘ii hi. )umegt creditors, it may be .very right ir.him , • . • • to'pay,ihiel, bat he believed the people would not fouls d much disposed to submit to burthens which the, might think imposed upon theta for the support of any extravagance. If them was any thiag concealed, let those gentlemen who wire in the Eectet come ' out .with it in an open manner. Parliament, he hoped, on the pounds yet laid down, would hardly _consent to retrace its steps, after having done so much already. Besides, there might possibly occur something difiagreeabk in the appointment of a Committee. if the Committee should find that some of these debts were not right or proper, it could scarcely be expetied that the Parliament would pay them. He could not con ceive that such a measure was called for, or that the Prince should he compelled either to disclose what he- might wish m withhold, or find himself re duced to the ungracious alternative of refusing it. It would also wear something of a harsh, and even cruel appearance, if Parliament should first e!cite his hopes, and afterwards find itself, under the dini greeable necessity of disappointing them. He trusted that no one would swipe& him of the slighest disrespeCt fur drat illustrious personage, when tic duty compelled him to irote for the previous ques tion, though, he ,would rather have met the Motion with a dire negative. Mr. HILLIARD, as an independent Member of Parliament, thought it incumbent on him to eVlain his reasons for thinking that it wits not impossible to entertain this Motion. This country, whatever other dangers it may be threatened with, had al ready found great relief in the repeal of the Incorne Tax. The Prince expressed 'his thanks . for what had already been done for him, but added, at the same time, that it was not sufficient to enable him to resume his state immediately. There was one consideration not yet adverted to, which had great weight with him. In contemplating the event of the demise of the Crown, it must 'be an obje& to every one, that the Heir to the Throne should ac cede to it, free and unfettered with any debts or in cumbrances which tend to lower him in the esti- . illation of his subje&s ; and this consideration would probably decide his vote on this occasion. Sir ROBERT BUXTON said a few words in explanation. Mr. JOHNSTONE declared, that he rose to express his decided disapprobation of the original motion, at the same time that he did not yield to any one in attachment to his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, and hoped, that when called to the the one. ,ofhis ancestors, he would.continue to the people the sarnehlessingsthoy enjoyed under the long and auspicious reign of his Royal father. He could not, however, forget that our expenditure was at present, though professedly and apparently, in a state of peace, no less than forty millions, and that the revenue was scarcely, if at all, in a condition to defray it. A contest appeared to be impending, which threatened the very existence of the country, and, under such circumstances, when new burthens were proposed, he at least expeCted to hear what was the necessity for imposing them. Was the na tion, he would ask, in a better situation now than m the year 179.5, when these restrictions were laid upon the income of his Royal Highness. It he were disposed to detain the attention of the Ilouse, he thought it might easily be proved, that there was then a much greater necessity than at present for supporting the state and dignity of the Royal Fa mily. There was then a considerable disposition per wading many classes of the community, in favour of new doOrines, and jacobinical principles. This disposition was, in at least a great degree, now dissipated, and why should we at present be tak ing a different course ? Were the House to make new grants at this time, they would be so many vio lations of the pledges given by his Royal Highness in 1793, and at subsequent periods, that he would contract no more debts. After the claims to the arrears of the Duchy of Cornwall revenues, sub mitted to the House on the 20th of March, the bu siness should properly have gone before a court of justice, and he was not aware of any mischievous consequences that would arise from it, especially as it was maintained that the surplus money was expended in the public service, which would justify his Ma jesty in calling on his Parliament .to reimburse it.— [At this time and others in the course of this speech, there was a good deal, of coughing, and other in terruption, but the Hon. Member proceeded.] That the claims of these arrears were not proceeded in, he maintained to be, because they would not amount to a suns sufficient for the purpose. The money allowed to Le received and claimed as t. arrears during the Prince's minority, ma; 134,000 Between 1771, and ilnt Prin:o coming of av, was advanced the suntof 1P3,000 At'ether pelio4l4 50,0091. and 21,0001. making 'a total of 194,000 Additig to this .:31. per annum for the expences of eilleation till the Piiute was of age, the amount .w, d( 43,000 Making against the arrears of the r..34,;00 A total of 2:39,000 To tit:: was stilt to be added the grants, in the yk..tr 1:87, of NIA:4 4 with other grant; upon 'the whok. 500,0'30 To put agairht the som of, as he said before, 0f... 254,000 All this, he said, he stated fairly, ' as an huleyen dent man, who lord nothing to fear, and very little . to hope: he was not, therefore, feakul-of the con, sequences. Neither the ground of the claim, nor . the right had ever been made out at all, and he defied:my ore to prove the right of the :Prince of Wales to -these ars-ears. In this situation, 'he thought"the public to be insulted by these pretended sacrifices to their interest, and shouhl‘votein favour of the previous question. Mr. H. LASCELLES said, that though he rose to oppose the original Motion, his doing so was not to 4e imputed to the slightest disrespect to the Prince of \Vales, for whose situation he felt as high a de gree of interest as any man. It was with serious regret he saw the present question brought forward and a.Fliatted. The former proposition for augment ing his Royal Highness's income during the ensu- . ing three years, he did not consider as objectionable . under all the circumstances. Had the Prince come with an open and full statement of his situa lion to the House, it would than have become a fit subjeCt for discussion, but the proposed Corm mittee, even if agreed to, could not do its duty without making a .full enquiry into the nature of all the now obligations said to be contraaed, and these ennuiries appeared not to be desirable again to be brought forward. The question of the ar num he thought ought to be fully.explained, and it was strange theit ,they bad never bean ineatioaeclat the time that Parliament was applied to respeting the Prince's embarrassed circumstances. He could -• • ! Ipmmilrig ,— ”Pe7prp. • - • . . • , not help aslh) , e, wty the Paine& did not resort to these funds, which he was said to he entitled te, beibre h.: came to that House for aveis!.rnce ? Every thing consilered, lie could net but view this claim, o• brought forward, and held over the (louse in ler rorem, while tho indirect applications-were making. Move any more was done, it was but fair to expert the claims to be legally ascertained, and he hoped and trusted ate Prince would even assist the House its the endeavours it was making,with a proper v icw to the convenience of the people, to reinstate him in the splendour and magnificence suited to his rank. Sir W. GORING having seconded the motion, thought himself called upon shortly to go into the na ture of some of the objeelions. In the first place he maintained, that the Prince of Wales was incapable of making any indirea application, as attributed to him in the speech of one of the Hon. Gentlemen. The enquiry now , called for svas necessary, because the House, without some such investigation, could not find itself justifiable in laying additional bur thens on the people. The motion, he conceived, to be founded on the principle, that it was the duty of Parliament to consult and support the splendour and dignity of the Heir Apparent to the Throne. If it was thought right, that the Prince should resume bis state, it was also right, that however cramped in financial circumstances, the country should at least stir in it. The only difference between gentlemen could be as to the time when that should be resumed, but he believed the counte7 not be in such a state as to render that an objeCt to it. • \ Mr. H. LASCEI.I.I.I.S explained, that he only meant to say the present Motion might, by some people, be suspeCted to be an indirea application from the Prince of Wales. Mr. DENT spoke in favour of the.original Mo tion. Mr. BLTRDON said, no Member of that House cotdd be more anxious - than he was, to see his Roy'al Highness the Prince.of Wales restored to that splendour of state, so necessary to support the high dignity to which he was unquestionably entitled. But as a Member of that House, having in recol leCtion what passed in the year 1795, with regard to the arrangement of•his Royal Itighnese's attairs, and the part which he took in it, he mutt strongly And decidedly express his determination to abide by that measure. He was convinced of the wisdom and efficacy of that measure, and though the com munication from the Prince refleds the highest ho nour upon the integrity and equitable dtsposition of his Royal Highness, yet to enquire any further into the circumstances of the case, than his Royal Highness had thought proper • to make known, he .conceived to be a proceeding highly "unwarrantable, 'and extremely indelicate. That his Royal Highness should remain any longer • in a state of obscurity, was a subjed of regret ; but it could not be supposed for a moment, that such a state of obscurity could reflex the least dishonour on his Royal Highness, particularly when the mo tives fur it were considered, and the salutary effed it had in view. But if a Committee was agreed.. to,. according to the tenor of the Hon. Gentleman's mo tion, it n•ould be in a most peculiar •situatien—in deed in a more peculiar situation than any Com mittee of that House was ever yet placed in.— ' It would be:compelled to dive into his Royal High ness's most secret concerns, to demand the production of papers and every, document necessary for the discharge of so painful a duty, and which, per haps, could not be complied with ; in short, it would be in such a situation, as not to be able to re port to the House any grounds for proceeding on. There were other grounds also of objedion to the Committee--We are told, that debts of honour, &c. ware to be discharged ; but these debts may be of a very different description from what the spirit of an Afl of Parliament could embrace. The pro per and manly manner in which his Royal High ness lad submitted to the restriCtions laid on his income, certainly entitled him to the confidence, resped, and good opinion of that House ; and no person lamented the necessity of any measure, which tended to curtail the enjoyments or comforts of the Prince, more than he did ; but as an inde peedent Member of Parliament, wishing to ad con sistently, he should vote for the previous question. Mr. TIERNEY rose and said, he could by no means agree with those gentlemen who said, it afforded subjed of sorrow, to have this business brought before the House. It was to him a matter of satisfaStion, as it gave him an opportunity of adverting to the manner of bringing up the Report of the Resolutions ; v lids he said, was done in a most extraordinary v aye a- a time when the House was. assembled for ti e pureose of carrying up an Address to his Majesty, and without affording any opportunity for gentlemen to deliver their senti ments on a subjed of so much importance. He would for a moment suppose himself a Member just . arrived in town from the country, and on consulting the Journalsof that House, he would perceive, that a most gracious Message had been received from his Majesty, recommending the situation of his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales to their cons titration, and by their votes he would see that they. 'had unanimously agteed to the accomplishment of the objeet-stated in his Majesty's Message ; and rt. by • the communication of the Prince of Wales, it would appear that the measures adopted were insufficier.t for the same. What then should be his feelings, placed in such a situation ? -would it not he extraordinary to agree to such a measure ? or why was money to be voted, unless it was to answer the purpose for which it was in tended.? He heard some Hon. Gentlemen objea, with great earnestnesi., to the present motion, as a . matter highly indelicate, at affording a pretence for prying into the secret concerns of his Royal High- Less ; but he was convinced that the result of an en- . quirt' in a committee, would be highly honourable to the Prince.; and, as to the strange sense of deli cacy expressed by those Hon. Gentlemen, lie was pertedly at a loss to account for it, when he consi dered that the immediate servants and friends of his Royal Highness displayed no symptoms of the kind. As to his pert, he would again rep, at his conviction, and a stronger tone could not be smpressed on Ws mint, that an enquiry in a Committee would turn out highly horourabki to the Prime ; and so far wits hefrom Gent le sr en • of any dole tration of the • nfieent, if his cn the ei7Atka-thipg lkli toika ! , ;e clerawAi. , I t. rT*l 4 he from .- apprthending. es some Hon. ( ,pressed themselves, the oecurrer.c , which, '. •tinwint'hy of the eqnsi ii House, that he should rest perfec•ir r• ''Royalisitneti's Worst enemy Committee; that he-could not fi • • .e , .) 1 / 1 1sel4on..Gentlesentf , chtims on the revenues of the • . ... ' e • - la +.7- Nat, • Those, be said, evho 'were connected with Govern meat last Session of Parliament, must eelsollect how that' mestere was brought 'before the House. It was then urged that the House was not cotepetent to the decision of the question, and the matter was referred to a Court of LRw. The Prince did go accordingly with his claim into a Court of Law, and the matter, he believed, was proceeded on. He begged. however, to observe, that he Epoice as a man uninformed. But what was rather strange, while this measure was in a train fur adjudication, it oc curred that his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, had been condemned to a peunance of twelve years ; and after seven years expiration, a new light broke out, and it was discovered thet Ministers should interfere to put a period to this severity. For his part, all this seers a little extraordinary, nor does he know how to obtain any information on the sehjed, except by moving for some paper which he does not know even how to term, or in a Com mittee. I-k had to observe, that since the rear 179.5, the Prince neither directly or indirectly had made any application to Parliament, even hr in truding the most distant intimation of a wish. The Prince, on the King's Message, and the resolutions of the House, accepted the grant of 60,0001. with all the filial gratitude and respect due to the pa tenial and gracious interposition of his Majesty, and what refleds the highest honour on his Royal ' Highness is this, that his Message .conveys a clear and candid explanation to the House and the pub lic, that though he accepts with gratitude the grant which has been offered, yet he cannot pledge him self to resume his state and dignity until he had dis charged certain demands, in which his honour was highly interested. But what he wished to know particularly, was this i—when it was mentioned as an objedion to the accommodation of his Royal I highness, that no additional burdens should be laid on the people—was the Prince in reality any burden on the people ? He differed very much with an Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Johnstone) on the calcula tion he had made between the Prince and the pub lic. The public had received 233,0001. of the Prince's money, and the whole sum that ought to be stated against him was 125,0001. for the dis charbee of his debts ; as to any other charge, when you have a Prince of Wales, you must support his dignity, and the sum laid out -on Carlton House should be put to the account of the public, and' not his Royal Highness. As to the sum of 60,0001. granted as en outfit to his Royal High ness on .coming of age, it rhonld certainly nut he placed in the account against kim ; for was there a father in that House who would not cheerfully give his son an outfit, according to hit abilities, on -such an occasion ? But noe to enter into the rainutiz of the business, and to sum up the whole, 161,0001. only could he stated against the Prince; and the public had,,for so considerable a length of time, the Prince's moiler, and the inte rest accumulating on the same; so that, pn a calcu lation of the same, it will appear, that after every fair deduction is made, the public still owes 'the Prince upwards of 300,0001. which he was confi dent would be fully proved, if the business was suf-' fered to come to a final adjudication. He would say, with confidence, that the present Prince of Wales was the least expensive Prince to the country that it ever had ; and he would contend, that his Royal Highness (notwithstanding all that had been said on the score of extravagance and burtheniug the people) had not cost the country snore than 30,0001. from the day of his birth to the present moment. He then adverted to the rise of every ar ticle of late, and said it was an objet worthy of at tention, that his Royal Highness's grandfather, in the year 1738, bad a revenue of 100,0001. to which the Prince's income of 1'25,0001. in 1795, was cer tainly not equivalent; for the depreciation of mo ney, and the rise of every necessary and luxury of life, must render the difference very material, and when all those circumstances were considered. he was confident, if a committee. was granted, any incumbrances that mayoccur would not appear to the disadvantage of his Royal Highness. And surely when the increased expence, which was ac knowledged by every rank in life, was considered, the cry of economy should not be alone direEted to wards the Prince of Wales. He wished to know if no increase had been made in the salaries at the public offices on that head. He could produce some items which should render Gentlemen cautious of entering on this topic. A new officelthat of Un der Secretary of State) was established in 1796, and in two years the 'salary was raised from 15001. to 20001. on the account of the increased expence of every necessary of life. He stated before, that he rejoiced at having this business brought forward. and he could wish that the business may be sifted to the bottom, because he was confident the most scrutinizing investigation would produce nothing to the .disadvantage of his Royal Highness. • rho Prince had stated, ina candid and manly manner. that he felt himself bound to discharge claims 'on his honour, before he could resume his state and • dignity. He did not speak from any authority, but he must supposethat the debts alluded to principally consisted of a foreign debt, which was not provided for by the settlement of 1795, and the 10 per cents.. which werestruck off bytheCommissioners. How far that measure was right, on the part of the Com missioners, he should not enquire; but the Prince thought he should 'not avail himself of that settle ment, and felt bound, in honour, to discharge what they had struck of—And surely this was a debt of honour. -If the Committee was granted, and he found an excess in the Prince's expenditure during the last eight years, be-should not think it extraatche nary ; and though no man.could look cloier than he did at the application of 'the public money, yet he should vote for its discharge, unless it was, appa rently teo extravagant. He might be a&nated by feel ings of gratitude and affeCtion towards his Royal Highness, from whom he has experience many proofs of polite attention; but on the present occasion he was not less influenced by what he felt to be his duty as a Member of Parliament, deeply interested in the e splendour and dignity .of the Heir Apparent to the Crown. His Majesty's most gracious Message tends to that objed, but the •resolutions of the House are insufficient to attain it. It therefore concerned the character of the House to enquire into the nature of the impediment; which opposed this .most desirable objet ; -for which purpose he should vote for the Motion of the Hon. Gentleman who introdaced the aelneet. The CHANCELLOR of the :BIECHEQUPIt the felon. Gentleman who has just sat down 11- 'l.l e The brtging 'up die Repurt of the Results. tions on tile day when the Hbuie was preparing to P•o9.•t t ~.~-.~,~