The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-03-06 00:00:00

OM. MIIMMOMIpMMINT ...m1...---.,.1, • . Trig Meuse to preserve that Cu *dilution iaTiataid from which they derived eu Many blea.sisigs, and nut to act as the base Indian, who threw away a •pearl richer than all his tribe. Mr. CANNING ruse under a conviction that he could nut diselorge his duty union he delivered his sentiments on the subject before the Hew. He had paid the greatest attention to all the argu ments used on the occasion, and if be could End auy impression on his mind to oppose the vote against the Noble Lord, he would gladly do it,; but he could not avoid what he considered his duty by a subterfuge in favour of any Member of that house. lie said he sholild put out of bis consideration many topics , which had been urged during the night, and hegia by acquitting the Noble Earl of any meanness, and the tnalig. want motives which had been imputed to him. He disbelieved such imputations. It was tal. terry impossible that a man in the situation of Lord Chatham, gifted by nature with generous qualities, and by fortune with the name which was honourable in thecountry, could beguilty of malice, or any low design. While lie entertained this opiniun, he could not acquit the Noble Lord of an oaence in a constitutional point of view. However his honour and lustre of character might be acknunledged, to shield him from a censure on the present occasion, would make him a splendid anomaly. The Noble Earl was bond to act un the same principle as any other man in the public service. The Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Whilbread) wonld.sutfcr him to say, with feelings of no unnecessary severity, that he did not wit. );ugly vote with him ; indeed it might be said that he did not vote *ith the honourable Gentleman without reluctance.-1A laugh.]—With respect to the questions under discussion, he considered the broad question the most constitutional one. Be expressed hie regret that this questiuu'had ever occupied the attenuun of the House, because it had the power of stripping the Rqyal name of its, irresponsibility, and it was the interest of the Crown that bo ;inch question should come under discus. Ilion; but though he had to regret this, he con. shirred the discussion perfectly admissible. Unfor- ' • tensely the subjects to which he alluded were so . Interwoven, that the decision of one would be • considered as prejudging the other. With respect to the Resolutions whit had.bevis moved, the first detailed the transactions fairly ; the second charm ' • terized the conduct of the Noble Earl, and on that •• Ise Weeded to make some remarks. An Ho nourable Member admitted that such a transaction bad taken place, and that the House should not • take notice of it. He conIJ not avoid express. ing the utmost astonishraent at this strange mode pf aeguntent, for there had not. been a single circumstance to allow the House to say it ought to ' be passed over. They had a traiisaction before them. which posed out of the way of the coustitu.' • ;ion, and yet they were called on to take no notice of it. This mode of proceeding lie could not suffi ciently depreeete. For the interest of the Crown, it was necessary that the degree of blame which at. tached tootlap individnalehould be recorded ; was it therefore to go forth unnoticed, because those w hose duty it was to correct every encroachment on the Coaslitutioe bad not the courage to oppose It ? The lleuee was called on to investigate and censure the blame atiribetahle to the parties, and with this view of the subject, he could not vote fur thy previous question, neither could he give his vote fur the se. cond litmelutien. lii recording the transaction on the Journals ef the House, it was necessary that it should be disencumbered of evidence, ti make the case. plain and intelligible. As the Resolution stood, he thought it would be itnpessible for pus. terity to entertain a clear opinion of it. He could have wished the Itisolation had been without the, pindence which attached.to it. lu objecting to tk• this Resolution, he was not prepared to say that ..., the tens unconstitutional was not e fair definition, t. but lie would not allow that it was unconstitu tional without looking at the violations of the . .." Constitution in a vmstitutional point of view. No • thought the Earl of Chatham had done ill, but he did inst think the offence watt of that magnitude that it ought to be visited by severe punialunent. ?improper coarse, in his opinion, to express the . _ his frieodslo that 'of the O. P.. 0 asst the .0. P.'s had the law of their side; . to hid he end his friends, and he trusted they would carry the question. The Honourable Member had get& suavity of man. tiers, a brilliant imagination, and gteit power of argument ; but bistead of applying these to the substance of the question, and endeavouring to exculpate Lord Chatham, they were employed to show that this motion' had less for its object the censure of Lord Chatham, theft the removal of Ministers. His continued cry was, 64 you want to get them- out; you want to get them out;" why so he did, bat he found it impos sible. Repeatedly as they were knocked down, still they got up again. litreould kill a moo, but he could not kill the phantom of anA.dministration, The Right Hence:rabid the Chancellor of the Ex chequer brought to his recollection a scene in a Neapolitan puppet.show, where a duel takes place between Punch and his antagonist. Poor Punch is run through and through the body. His friend comes, and with great signs of grief, applies his mouth to his ear, and ssks him, 46 some rnorte ?" on which the latter springs up and cries " Bah !" So with the Right Honourable Gentleman on the other side: notwithstanding the repeated defeats he has sustained during the session, at the very moment that you expect to hear nothing more of him, 'up jumps the little fellow, and say' , " I am alive."— [Much laughing.] Lord C. in one part of his examination, had stated that the Narrative was transmitted to his Majesty to meet the Narrative. of Sir R. Strachan ; and yet, in answer to a ques tion afterwards put to him; he admitted it was within his knowledge, that that gallant officer had ['relented no Narrative. There were other inconsistencies which . it was not now necessary for him to dwell on, as they had been so rlearly• pointed out by his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Ponsodby). therefore, he saw the Noble Lord give suck. inconsistent testimony (which, if given without. that bar, instead of in. side of it, the House would be bound to take 'notice of)—testimony that they would not have passed over in any of the persons that appeared at their bar last year, was he not •justified in calling on the House to assert its own dignity, and to mark its Sense of those shuffling and unconstitu tional proceedings ? Much bad been said of the purity of Lord Chatham'slutentions. With that 'the-House had nothing to do;. they were to form r 'heir decisions only from the facts before them. had been condemned for the contrast he endeavoured to draw between the conduct of the' late Earl of Chatham and the pre. 'sent. Ile was asked, will yon be so inhuman as to tear the stones from the monument of the fa. tiler, to bruise the head of the son ? Ile could peal to those who had opportunities of judging of his habits and feelings, whether in private life he was capable of violating any of those social elec. lions that bound man to .man. But there be was not his own master ; he would discharge his duty as an honest and independent servant of the people, and hold use the proud, noble, and constitutional conduct of William Earl of Chatham; in eating contrast with the suspicions and anebostitutional conduct of 304 in Earl of Chatham.. He would asaintain, that the Right Mososulalshe iiiesSisasa• hill set onswetetoms of •hb islisessetilairiothilA+ was to UM in itespicions omen that be Cliaitild carry the question. He.cotild assure thwillouse, that he did not act in :a spirit of iengeonee, but, in the aid* of a Representative of the People. Atlastates of Lord Chatham; there were none - but lie stood there the advocate: of millions at - the people of Englood, who insisted ,on the •principle •of . responsibility, and who wished• to make Ministers or others anavierattit Air whatever advice they should give the Sovereign. Us must again repeat, that ho.trusted the Meuse would Mee stiffer the Right Honuurablh Calliope's to tate refuge under the shabby shelter .of the previous question; and give the country an opportunity of saying, that Parliament dare not do its duty..— Should the first Resolution be carried, it would, then be time for the House to consider whether they would adept the .Amendmset of the Right Honourable Gentleman. • General LOFTUS.vindicated the conduct of. Lord Chatham, and assured the Rouse that the. Noble Lord had expressed to Min his readiness to coma back and answer to any points in hi; efa,. deuce that were supposed:to .want explanation. General GROSVENOR maintained, that Lot* 'Chatham was perfectly justifiable in presetstisc .the Narrative to his Majesty, which was mend, a simple recital of the military operation in which' .ho was employed, and did not contain' a single •werd,of advice front beginning to sod. , . After several explanations from Mr. Whit. 4 bread, Mr. Canning, Mr. Hanka, and others, 'the Hope bbcame clamorous for the question. Strangers were ordered to withdrawi t Nei toolcistate - on thiffetosia - question ' For it .. M.—Against it . ffil.,-51altarity ss. • Strangers were nut afterwards admitted; but we understand, Mr. Whitbread', first resolution was carried, and he waved the second. Mr. CANNING then• proposed the Amend. meat mentioned in his speech; and Mr. WII IT BREAD seetwided it. After a short conversation, in the course of 1 which, some Amendineats, principelly verbal, were suggested and acceded ti, Mr..idanwitto's resolution was adopted.-i-Adjourned. at Three o'Clock. hesitate to say the *Ale Lord's eondnet was not unconstitutional; yet, if it was suffered to imps unneahoxi. it. might be dengeroes to the. Constitption. Ije had no wish to travel through the question, bqt ho did say It iu not unconsti. tutional, because he ecquitted the Noble Earl of any sinister motive. The paper had been presented as mere confidential statement, and when Lord Chath;m gave it to the King, he did not glee It as - a Privy Counsellor, with advice to accede to it.— What watt the situation of the King with respect to information at the opening of Parliatient ? Ills Majesty had stated, in his Speech, that he bad di rected to, he laid before both Houses iufortnation respecting the Expedition to the Scheldt ; and when the Narrative was put into the King's hands, it was nut likely that the Papers and' information laid before Parliarnout could be affected by it. He' did not *refuse to vote a censure on . the Noble Earl ; and while he wished that censure might be mild, he did not hesitate to say that the Noble Earl had acted inadvertently. Mr. WINDHAM considered the arguments which had been used to prove the conduct of Lord Chatham unconstitutional, louse and collo. qutal. The censure in the Resolution of hit Hon. .Friend was too severe, and therefore he preferred the amendment suggested by an Hon. Gentleman' , opposite. • The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER. 1 said, the observations he had made on a reenter night prevented Kim from going into the subject at length. Ile could not help asking how the /ion. Gentleman, who had refused to , call the contact of Lord Chatham unconstitutional, could argue that it was necessary to mark it by the censure of the House ? The most rational way for the House to deal with the question would be, to say that we will not discuss it. The Right Honours. ble Gentleman contended that the Earl of Chat. ham had nut committed an unconstitutional act. It did nut appear that any act injurious to the Con. stitution had followed the presentation, of the pa. per, and therefore there was no ground fur the House to pass its censure.' The slightest notice of the transaction was not necessary. Mr. BATIIURST explained. Mr. CANNING also explained, stating, 'that what he had suggested was a modification only' of , the original motion', and not adierse to the Ran. lutions proposed by' the. Hon. Gentleman. Mr. WHITBREAD then rose s to reply. He ob. 'cued, that bird Chatham had been arraigned by him, and had not found a single defender in the House. Those who spoke most in his favour ad. milted that his conduct was erroneous; but they would not allow, that it was unconstitutional. A Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Windbam), who appeared to hare been defending the conduct Of Lord Chatham, although he concluded by saying he should vote against him, allowed that his con: duct was contrary to the spirit and genius of the Constitution. What was this but saying in other words that It was unconstitutional ? Theßightlion, Geetleteatt Purceval) had allowed that Lord Chatham had erred, but as ho said, innocently, Now, ho must deny, that any thing appeared in the evidence which enabled him to conclude that this error was innocent. As for keeping the lutes. Lion undetermined by voting fertile previous flees. tion, ho thought the Holum and thecountty . ought net tb be so kept in suspcnce. Ministers aPpeared to wish for the shabby shelter of the previous quell. tion, and were content 'still to appear the dis. jointed 111 misters of a disjointed Cabinet, which had too long misgoverned the country. Some Hon. Gentlemen said that they wad not vote for these resolutions, unless it was intended to follow them up. He bad expressly told the Wine, that if they were carried, be would have another resolution to submit to them. '!'hero Will another Honour. able Gentleman (Mr. Bankes) whom be hattheard this night with amazement, and he belieted the; House participated iu thb feeling. lie had sup..' posed that nu Gentletnan's edition of "the Consti. rodeo was more correct thanbis • at least, in that' situation he was always cuesitle'rel in the 'Finance Committee. But fur the future, he must, in hit own mind, consign that Hon. Gent. to the tame class of Guardians of the Constitution as Was exhi. • . - . sense of the House, would have been, to have halted its such abundance at the ether side "of the moved some censure ht terms less severe. The Ho. House. In specking of what was the ptineipal sib. nunsable ilinaber here intimated that it was nut jest of complaint, Gentlemen hid mtpreseed thew , his intention then to move an amendment, out be, selves erroneously *whets by the word it they al-. suggested the following:— - hided to the Narrative that was beferellie House. '. Twit this ll;nwe ems, with ;rest colleen, the Earl et Thr.t was not the it that ho meant. Ile meant that Chatham, as Commander of the Fortes in the Espeditioo to original paper which bad been altered in the Narra. pie Sibeldi, should - have been induced to protons Narrative to his Majesty of proceedings, is which the name of ao MS- tire, and which now remained a ieeret _between err, who mowed iii that service, was contained, without roe. Lord Chatham and his Majesty. If Lord Chat. teyitig it titruagts the hinds of the respeasibk ten ants of the ham had_ not given his *lice that It Should hi - Crown: mid that such conduct Might to be marked by the emigre of this House, as dangeruto and persicious to the kept - secret, Lord Mulgrere,. who pot Lord Gem-- (. 7 4V W o.'! - bier on his trial on a much Slighter charge, would' This ho.consWered enough to discharge the duties certainly have instituted t•eotart-martial to enquire of the House, end not more than the transaction into thw conduct of the naval department. It periteo( was A Ski, Ili . thss....G44oMen 4,0 . *he other eider Air. lIATAUMST aid, . that - Lord eligible' that pubtleity was the Noble Lord's object, and had violated theaccess which be hid with his Ma. that he was determined that an inquiry shouhl take jesty, but he did not.thioli his offence •ueconstitu. place. This determination could not, however, itional. He thought. tho Noble. Earl's conduct be collected from the Answer to the City of Len entit led to such censure as .would prevent a similar don. When Lord Chatham said in - his evidence, transaction from occurring again, but was out ii- that he had no copy of the narrative hellcat sent' vaned to give a vote of great severity. in to the King, lie hoped, that h e till not believe,. ?Jr. W. OWEN contended, that the conduct at thattime,. that he had the Original• itself in his of (.aid Chatham was not unconstitutional. It was possession. If having the original,. he answered' necessary, when a charge was brought against any , in such a manner, it 'would be more against the shalt, that it should be fairly-stated. In the pre. character of the N.oble Lord than even the menu.. sent transaction the charge woof a geocril nature, I stitutional act of which he complained. If that and it was impossible fur the donee to , say the proceeding was intended to. influence his '%- Noble Earl's conduct was uncooititutional. 'Majesty, and that influence reclaimed sindi. • .IW.g S' -- TAIiESMAN. Lord CAfLEREAGII said, whatever his minished, he called upon the Hotta to record kii " li. .1' ———,—_ — 4 ~ impression might be, his private feelings ought 00 the fact on their Journals. For his pert, ho - , eworonts TillA Z. , • , to Interfere with his duty. It had appeared fo cessideral the whole proceeding of stiehis nature, '' ' -- tAt - 7713 erc'e --- - ittrUili : - • him that these were no papers in the possession of he thought the conduct of Lord Chatham laf eitiA' • • • I TunsnAir, 31AISCI g. she Noble Lord which the House had not a tight traordittary, so hostile to the genius and sph - it 4 1.. ~ s " . ....... to demand. With respect to the narrative obtainiod the Conititution, that is order to maric,his lota ' MAILS arrived in Town tilt morning trod% Lis f rum 11;e Throne, the House was bound to disaupie of it he would propose to carry them veseletiostif LL . •L'a t tli g MC duty it owed the cannery. Lnuking at that pa. to the foot of the throne, Nit without any* uotnusta 'L . " = ., . _ and - GottonbUrsh, groat' which' we s e e, 44 1 protest (said the Noble IJord) that acquit form or ceremony , leaving it to his Majesty til'''"e° nude such : t4 tract a a s the limits 91 our l i ssird Chatham of any unjust or ungenerous (soave . act thereon as be might think best. But if bo wan Plvvir, sseenpied as it is by the Interesting Debate wilco ho delivered the paper."— With no sulpieion not able to elect that, he irnsteti that at leak Me of lest niglre,`..bie Wait. . in Ida mind against the Noble Earl,he should 16ek at 'should succeed in in ecordin g the preceetAttiti It Is eestlerit,: by aim successive sirivei,, that the sohiecl untie r discisiiottas tk tivy cuustitutionsil .as to prevetit a possibility ; of the recurrence of question. If. was limned in b 4 Mind ' 1144 to g;) he,: the Offence. . An .11eitairable and Learoed' Mein. ,b¢_ F !pitch Res mir.r.mfekly oateediul thenntelvesi goad this opinion, and he thought the House could her (Mr. Stephen) on the opposite Bench, had en- on. the frontiers of Portugal,' which thin teeth : sot adopt any vindictive oseasaro ? He tfid not deavonred to AShillihas the eondelif hi4tfelf and threetenett.on iscsy side. The city of ar.tgania, A 4 1 dl. : •II ' . . . . . _A--_ --.v........+•••—___---s_ -- • • • - _—.. . . .. . ..„;,„ , , i )4 , , .. 1i i , ..‘• .. ,- i -, ! . ~.: • • ; •,. ~ , , . ...., ... ;.- .... ,•• • • . - .I' . 1 -4 g .I . . . -...-.4!... 44101-s-0,•--....-- • - - '-• --, - tor • -mow ...,, a4„... v ah,.... .. - , . .. . I ',i * : 1 '643 ', • ', ' ' ••• • .l ! ' Si #.107.!, •.> tie • 'hi' . ' Illic U. SMAN. ' . platted in the North Eatitermitetat paint of Portia. gal, bas been plundered by a foraging pa r t y of the French army.—Cludad Rodrigo, a city , of Spain, on the frontiers of Portugal, h as been attacked, although unsuccessfully ; m int i. da, in Portugal, has also been threatened._ Badajoi has been visited by the enemy, who have, however, retreated. ' And at Ayamoute, on the Spanish side of the Guadiana, at, its confluence with the Ocean, the French are in considerabl e force, Portugal is thus menaced ota various points, and which ever way Lord WELLise•rov may turn himself, the French will certainly take advantage of any tliuvement in advance, by correspondent motions on his rear„.. Fortifications, we am told, have 'been raised on many defensible points, and some of th e most important pusses • are effectually g but after the experience we have had of the d e . fence of the passes at Samosierra, and i n i h, Sierra Morena, we may be excused if we are seer. tical on the successful defence of those points o n which the Portuguese appear to place so much re, fiance: • It is, iu truth, greatly to be feared that She French, more numerous than we are led t o believe, are manoeuvring at various points, with a view of inducing ,Lord WELLINGToN to admire. the consequences of which would ith:vitably h e disostrols, if not fatal. It will be seen, by the accotints from Cadiz, that the place is now considered to be in a re- spectable state of defence, although, until the arrival of our troops, the inhebitants, fluctuated between the admission of a French or Englisk force. Port St. Mary is completely in their possession; as eta are Malaga, Seville, Grenada, and the stir, rounding districts. To occupy so great an ex. .tent of country—u threaten'ng, at the same time, Portugal at so many points, it is impossible us doubt that the force of the French greatly exceeds what it is described to be by the Spaniards. CADIZ, FEB. 17.—0 n the 24 the Council of Be -1 gency, which, from the urgency of the present state of af fairs, has been formed by the Supreme Junta of Government, entered upon its funetioes. It emoisis of five Members of the Junta, the Bishop of OREN SE, president, Don F. DE SAt. YEDRA, Don F. X. CATTANOs, thin A. b;scA\A, and Deg E. F. De Lyme. - Josern Spena, an inhabitant of port St. Mary, whirl; he left at three o'clock in the afternoon, was nasalised by the Junta, nod declared, in the coarse of hie eumientioe l that the French Mee occupied the said plate with one regi ment and ope battalion of foot t thatiftey have meensedtWe guns in the castle of sedating, and two at Guist; theiFsks Julien arrived there 3esterdity at one o'clock in the after noon, escorted by 100 men, and alighted at the house of the Marquis CANADA TIRRE, that the French have completed a bridge of boats, and converted the Convent of S .S. Francisco lowa salable e.Shist Mary *elms their determination to be OW Surstst tails Wra fortnight ; :AO he saw fear **roil' mo neer*, who left the place for the perpose of reconnoioin; the lines Of the isle de l e eon ;.end Out a report reached Port Si. , Mary, before he left it; that the Marquis dc IiONAN.t was in the rear of the French, with an *fly Of 70,000 men. ThE Duke of ALBUQUERQUE, leitvllK reciAved a letter ' from the Duke of DALSIATIA, inviting bim to submit ID King Josses', returned a very spirited/mover, In which be declines all lhwther communication with him, flit Fen int Allin • VII. shall have been restored to Spain. \ • "lam also to inform your Excellency," he says in this hue resting Paper, " that the English, that brilliant Wiles whet is valiant and noble as it is generous, do not harbour lathe e bosoms any idea like that pointed • tit by your Excellency to reader themselves masters of Cadiz, they bore ro otier views than assist es in its defenCe with all the powerfe4 memos in which the Spaniards have requested of. these, aid accept mutts pleasure." Tna Gottenblirgh Mail cOntaint only an ac. count of a (41'11111 Deputation of the Stetes of the Empire to the Kuto, to Offer alb:tiro for the re storation of Peace, Is a number of the Journal de Commerce, brought by a Gentleman, arrived froar it is stated, that in the Moniker of the preceding day, 'the recal of King Louis from the throne of Holland, by his brother i IsjAPOLSON, is fermally announced. 'As interesting discussion took place last night in the House of Commons, On the ,Resolittilsel awed by Uri WlDTllnetn on Friday last.--Tbe previous question was moved by Mr. STEPU EN, and supported by all - the strength of - Adesinistratiou. — It appeared, however, in the course of the debate, to be the prevailing sentiment, that ,the conduct of ' the Earl of Cnkritam demanded some mark of the . disapprobation of the House, though many Mem bers were of opinion that ttie 'censure cent.dad in Mr. WIDTIIRRAD'i second Resolution was too severe. On a division the previous question was negatived, Tll E, MAJORITY AG king MI NISTERS BEING THIRTY-THREE! The Gallery was not opened after the division; but we understatid that Mr. WillTaltEAD withdrew his second Resolution, and adopted one de gilder name, proposed by Mr. CASHING, which ass agreed to Sir PottE OUIELtY is appointed Minister to the Court of Persia, witt an 'appointment of 506 01 • a.ytar, ao4 a retreat of 20091. a-ytisr. The Psg °reds AMBAseAmpt, it It therefore to be sett ) has succeeded in the object cc his m'stion to End" laud ; ind we understand he tikes his departure ill a few weeks. uagAß.—There was no Court of Aldermen t o. day the LORD MAYOR ; after inspecting tllO turns, prdered it to rise Id. per • : sate,. • - . . plo • L o _ IDON : ?rioted. illtd . DPR D . y Stin ITATI,SSA V Orl'/4 E. 97. :4 ti-ttreet. . F • . t ; - !, ! 1 IP