The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-07-02 00:00:00

1 i ~~ t I, y • 4 THE STATESMAN._ 1111 N - - - eligible to all offices, civil or military, those of Eng- his army of that persuasion • , the rising and it witeltOt e till ,8 U its hazards ? No :it was all anomaly—it was he then said, it ought not to he left till • • of all contradiction—all short-sightedness. It gave up , feelings of the nation awoke into a tempest of and it gave it up for what was 1 faction. The measure was then deferred ; and since land were sufferhig under the pressure of all their !Louis, the French King, hi violation of a 'treaty former disabilities, with the eeceptioa of the trifling ! peace, acknowledged the title of the . Pretender to ! what might be good, what it might be prudent to ! that time, it was not to be denied that ' sus • mitigation effected by the Ast of 1791, which ad ' the Crown of England, that King William, and it ; ___shut, . . . , . in. to the se. shut what it was only safe to op al . The country - arms and It had been revived, totally newer. saitted them to tne elective franchise. Iu Scotland, great Ministers of that time, had recours e it left open to be ruined by the admission of the Catholics ; muted, as lie thought they were ; but still they were however, they had neither the elective nor repro - ` sire penal laws which were the ; n enacted : , nd Lord • into the civil and military service of the State. This revived g d this not additional ; n was an reason to tentative fraechise, though they were eligible to alt' bequeetly heeed the names of Lord Somers& thisl hi Scotland this . take the under their Lordslie s' das the promoters of sys- ; was the point of safety,—and yet entices; and notwithstanding this latter genii ticatione , l Hardwicke mentioned 'n tion and apply it to those of • • they considered themselves persecuted for their Rifle tem. , These, • indeed,. are • great names ; but they i vital point was quietly given up ; and i Scotland ; , . maxims ?wiso a• A to be profaned, for the purpose of sup.. the Catholic saw all employments open to him.— ; wholesome policy of which it was capable ln th is gime Me Mai,. I these circumstances of distinetitin oftglit nut in tee civil and political condition of the Roman Caw:it:lout *no.daseitaieetifies and errersof theitesuccessors. t i Hear, hear, hear I Was this system to be pre. : the /louse might expect the assiseoice of Nobler aids d for perfection ; were there those It' I• k 1 l and ' 1 !holies in the three countries, only to prove • —Ortecarll-eWe, who sa y th a t this system a ught to !serve its or from Lord ' found a beauty in its anomaly ? " I say," said the i subject entitled their opinion to the Si'g'.est resaro , to their Lordships the tama l e., absurd, and anon- 1 considered and amended, du not differ I strous anomaly of this system ; and to establish , Somers and Lord Ilardwicke, for the circumstances i . Noble Marquis, 44 the prohibition of sitting in Par. ; _[ Lord Wellesley here said a few word;. w . h .. the neceSslty of a radial reformation of it.--- I ofelie times are not the same . When Lord S omers ; lament is a positive 'utterance. It is a grievance in I liece, in compliment to Lords Grey tine Grew i;i , Louis was in the pie- i its own nature.. It i s a d eg „.e s ti on of a great class, : but they were lost in the cries of 11::a •, hear! ,f, ~,,t We have ;' e vil l Ile was aware of the objection that was always reae i Wes cavoerable to this system, supported the cause ,hi the eyes of their fellow-subjects. It has all the the Opposition. I," said hs, " nal sincere in sly as to the danger of change: but this he shoirlit : , mita& of his p ower, and o p enl y tneet b askin how we - came to have continued safe' of the Pretelsde eto the English Throne. In addl.. temper of a positive penalty. The prohibition to the op ini on, that no time shcuel 1):2 lost in t i o, ; i t y g from , such danger alt the e time since 1793 I ?—ln Scot. , lion to Oils, we must remember, that the accession of • hold high civil or military o ffi ces is a penalty an- ep by Parliament ; that it sloeild not be setlesed el land, op to this m oment , the Homan Catholics werel William was critical, and, in some respects, not p o . ' need only to the highest misdemeanours of pub!ic fttat about at the merry of every man s'. h.. in m lee admissible to se offieet, eelei • that, he believed, of ; pular. Ido not mean toimposition .say, that the - his opportunity to distort and sxlesera:e the zri just s • r-. 1 Nigh Cominissioner of the Kirke without the exist . - , of these disabilities was even then;. but al- ' secution but by tire a n d faggot, and the torture of ances of the people. Rescue it from the hi „t once of fear; or the occureenve of danger. lie' lowing that they were then just and necessary, it the flesh? And is this to be visited on a g reat mei- the enemy ; Ido not speak of persons in I re'a t ' t would ask, therefote, •thest who urged this appre. does not follow that they are so now. There I lite& of our countrymen, on imputations and rescue it from France. [Hear, hear !] IA : , : , bensioa of dnager as an targeinent isgahast the consi- : was thee a Popish Pretender to the Crown ; the charges denied by every authority of their Church ? tuition of the public mind only provoke U. t o ; ;!... a derntion of time question', to intone their Lordships I Pope was in the vigour of Ina power; amid these ; Has not all this complication of grievance and pe- up, and that as speedily as we can. If k weve by in l et means that danger bad been avoided in Mit. things, together with some circuinstauces even in our : nalty produced discontent ? I will not be suspected ticable, I would urge it upon your immed; A t:. ~,, .•. land; 11 , .w had it impeimied thatno alarms had existed 1 domestic coueciis, excited a general conviction of the ' ofevishing to inflame the popular mind : but has it &ration. MI I not urge it upon you before ? tad in that country ; tor ha hail never heard that any idea l necessity of providing additional guards andsecerities , not produced discontent ? 'I should be most deeply I trot, on the eSt It of April, entr at. yon to go into al , of warm had been suggested there,• or conceived for the te!igion and liberties of the country; but the' surprised if it had not. But if it had not, it would immediate Committee? But ldo not now raa up on !mere ls--Weat danger, he must desire to be Wormed, !circumstances are now changed, and the timende- ; become us, my Lords—it mould be our boutidep duty, you for what would be impracticeble; sad, as the re had either the Presbraerian or the Episcopalian : mend a different policy. In endeavouring, then, to 'as hereditary Counsellors of the Crown, to look to ; could he no hope of going through the subject this S, s. Church incurred in Scotland, by the cotieetteous to alter the system, I say that Ido not, iu any degree, the probable rise of discontent , and meet and heal it.. sloe, let us determine to make it our earliest conii. the Catholics? Thu answer must be, none. What 1 dep::rt from the example of Lord Somers. ; [ 'fear, Does not all this supply ground for arguing? Is there : demtion for the approaching one. Next, us to this danger then, need be apprehended from the saute po. ! hear!] 1 say the same of Lord Ilardwiciam e. W u et . nothing in measures which lix a vast irritated pope- i time,—are we to leave the question in its present !icy here, ni in Ireland ?—lie was aware that. the I Were the circumstances of the times in. itlikh he lation in the heart of the empire? But look to . state, for the interval that may come between the Roman Catholics averts few iia number in Scotland. : Hied? The Pretender to the Crown had atenally in- i their operation on the general safety of our civil ; prorogation of the Rouse and its meeting again ?._. But when they 'were admitted to their qualification waded the British dominions; and among the splendid : rights. Look to their operation on the interests i Are we to leave it to the mercy of every man who in 1793, &tawny period since, had they availed thein. , passages of the life of that great luminary of his pro-' of the Church. In each, and all, they went i turns his eve upon it ! Are we to leave it to the selves of the concession, to make an attack upon the; fessions the manner in which he managed the trials 1 directly to arm the spirit of a great body of the practices of the eitelly ?:"—[ilere there was some national'establishments ? li: , z great object was to im- l of the Peers concerned in that rebellion was not the people against those i:mstitutions from which they !confusion from the crowd below the Bar, and ti m e press upon their Lordships, in this past of his state- least distinguished: Are we now under the appre. felt themselves decidedly excluded. But did those 1 Officer was called. Afters short pause, Lord W e i. ment, the monstrous ationialy of the system, by call- I bension of any such danger?—ls there any Pretender laws, which were supposed so essential to the i lesley proceeded]—" If the time, if the mods of the • lag their attention to the manner in which it affected :to the Throne?--Is there any dread of the principles Constitution, answer a singlet object for which I Resolution are unsatisfactory to your Lordships, a re England and Scotland respectively. Let any man lof a Popish Pretender ?— Ace the circumstances of they had been devised ? Their first object was, to II to conclude that the object of my Resolution is consider this seriously, and say, whether there was . that, and the present time, in any print similar to I bring the population 'within the pale of the : so! That object is to secure a final arrangement, not saleiesit ground for enquiry into the reason of ' each other ?—No : they are all comlietely distinct i Church. Has this succeeded ;or roust not the i satisfactory to all parties—so guarded as to remove the difference into the operation of the system, ;and • a:A different. But, my Lords, I go still farther; I body in question be adverse upon principle ? Is there' discontents, without endangering the rights of any clots its practical effects in the two countries ; and also ' and I say, that the authority of Lord Somers and I a discoverable tendency to the end ? Is not the re.lof his Majesty's subjects. The importance, the pro whether it was hot the duty of their Lordships to I Lord Hardwicke, instead of being again I against us, is di- suit all evil; is it not the fruit of the system, upon I balite effect, the dangers of delay, all concur to press examine into the mode and principles of its institu.; redly for us. We have the proof, that these great I pure human principles, to raise a strong hostility I this great question upon me, and compel me to tion, for thepurpose of bringing it, if possible, into i men did not think the guards and securities then pro- against the Church—to lay open the public mind to I call viten you for some pledge of this speedy cousi n' more perfsct and complete state ? . The existence ' Tided applicable to times and circumstances like the the enemy ; and to raise and foster a spirit, which, !deration. Then I, with others, whose assistance I of such restraints as were imposed by this system, I present. The guards and s'curities then provided if not met by speedy remedy, or softened by the I will be happy to claim—and after whom, or with be would contend, was, in any country, contrary to ! did not consist entirely of disabilities imposed on the promise of speedy consideration, must go on, in a , whom, I am ready to take my share in the discussion the principles of natural justice. It was, he must , Catholics. They consisted, in 1 great degree, of progressive ratio, to those excesses which it would !of this question—will be proud and happy to come heist epos it, an injury to any clams of subjects, to !certain additions made to the laws of High Treason. dentated all the wisdom and temper of your Lord- ! forward with those measures, which, by providing for doiposo upon them any incapacity which would Many treasons were created, referring solely to the ships to meet with success ? But has this anomaly of ; a final arrangement, seem to us most calculated to derive them of the benefits of the Constitutieu. Pretender; and it is not considered as an innovation, law, which deals out one measure to Ireland, and an- !ensure the happiness and honour of the country. Upon the face of it spelt a law would be a gross , I suppose, that these are gone. It was provided by other to Scotland—has it produced quiet in Ireland, ! Those measures must not be suffered to linger with. injustice, unless it could be defended npou the I the Zth of Anne, that the law with respect to time and in Scotland dis Content? No. We have iu those : out a pledge. If they are, let Parliament look to ground of "!"solute necessity—and then that neces. ;corruption of blood should expire on the death of the two countries a great public principle reduced to 1 the consequence on the feelings of the country—Le City ought to he clearly proved before their Lord. ! Pretender. By the 17th of George 11. this was ex - practice; arid it tells us, that where there is con- I them, above all, look to its impression on Ireland— Ships should conseht to continue the system. But tended to the death of the sons of the Pretender. Is it straint, there is discontent; and where the con- ! let them look to the consequence of telling any great fie would go farther, and contend, That it was not i not clear, then, that these guards and securities were straint is taken away, there, is quiet." Lord Wel- I body of men, that they shall have no place among Only contrary to the principles of national justice, calculated for the circumstances of the times merely, lesley then adverted to the effects of a change of sys- ' us; that we have laid up their disabilities in the very but contriver to the principles of the Christian reli.l when it was expressly provided, that they should, tem in Ireland. Authorities had been quoted to I temple of the Constitution, and made their restraints lion, to nitrite ally civil *disabilities on account of in a great measure, cease when the circumstances prove that Catholic Emancipation was an inferior , the palladium of our liberties. I trust in God, that religions Opinions; and these disqualifications wore, that erne rise to them no longer existed ?—This is a i object with the people. But ail this was contradicted iwe are now about to hind ourselves to that final 4r. be considered, imposed for relinieus opinions. It was ' distinct recognition, that the provisions were in. mmpon the common principles of human affairs.— rangement which will amend all—secure all—recon not :lone contrary to the Christian religion however, I tended by the framers to be merely temporary, and Where a discontent was raised against a peculiar' cite all."—The Marquis Wellesley then read his bet emphatically prima facie contrary to the princi-ito cease with the occasion. It is evident, then, that grievance, —where It was the select of universal ! Resolution :—' That the House do pledge itself to pies of the present form of worship—the reformed, the authority of these great men, Lords Somers and complaint,—where it was calculated to paint and to ' take into consideration, early in the next iession, religion, as by law established, at least to the princi- I Hardwicke, is in favour of those who think that this injure, whether complained of die not, its removal ' ' a final arrangement relative to the Catholic Claims; plea upon which it was at first introduced. What-' code of disabling laws ought to be revised and cor- must be important. But then it was said, the dis. : ' sszuring the interests of emery class affected by over might have since passed to. favour a differenfeou. ' rected. But the Pope was the instrument of Boca- contents of Ireland arose from many causes, of I' them, amid calculated to produce a general conch elusion, the reformed religion, on its first ettablish. parte; and we were to dread his influence on our po. which this was but one. Let it be so. But what , 4 liatiou." meat, was adverse to every species of intolerance.lpnlation, through the Pope. What' was the history? was the reasoning that would refuse to take away I The Motion being put from the Woolsack, Ildnless it could be shown tnat the profession .of Bonaparte wished to bring all . Italy under his iron , one burthen, because others might remain behind ? ; Lord LONGFORD rose, and strenuously op particular religious opinious would be dangerous crown, and the Pope's dominions stood in the way. ! [Hear, hear!] 44 There may," said lie, ii be ' posed the motion of time Noble Marquis. The claims to the security of the State, he would still con- , Bonaparte seized his person, as a preface to the others; but this, I am convinced, is the great one. , set forth by the Catholics, he thought it highly dan. tend, that it was prima facie to impose any pres. ! seiture of his rich domains. That Pope, who was to I say it upon my best consideration. I state it as a ! serous to concede, while Bonaparte held his power wore upon any particular class for entertaining I shake the allegiance of Ireland, was now a prisoner , legitimate grievance; and lam convinced that it is ' and influence over the head of that religious body. them. But lie would also contend, that it was{ of France; and ens there to be found a man who' one which tenth to inflame every other grievance.— Concession, as far as reason and sound policy would in just upon its own principles. To form an opinion i would still say, that the authority of the Pope was i [Hear, "'earl] This is the most painful and ins- " go, he was willing to yield, but there were bounds 13P011 this part of the case, they should take a view ' thus capable of producing an evil influence oti the I tine of all, as it touches the pride and feeling of a and limits to be observed ; and the precept" thus far of the state of things here and abroad at the time I minds of the Catholics ? I, (said Marquis Wel- I people full of sensibility. How mach must it press ' shalt thou go and no further " ought not to be for the., system originated, and at the present moment. 1 lesley) am convinced , that no act of the Pope, in upon the spirit of such men, to fi nd themselves de- ' gotten. It was quite unreasonable to require larger ,•_c. Ido net me lit here to enter tufo detail, but I his preened situation, would be acknowledged by the ; graded in the eyes of the country. It is impossible . concessions than had already been granted, without I ask your Lordships what was 'he origin of this sirs. i Church. I think that hie present situation goes di- I that this must not be felt. It is not to be believed : adequate security 'against consequences. lie could tem ? It arose front the jealousies entertained, sad ', redly to extingitish his authority in the church of that this must not touch them in all ' , voiles where Olen i nut consider the question as merely religious: Ile juely ente.tained, at the time of the Refornlation, of ; every country of *trope. But has his authority can he touched. I am firmly convinced, that the ; thought it was much inure of a political character, the intentions of the Catholics, and the pewee of the . been etercishd ? lii the* been an attempt to exer. removal of this will produce. the tranquil removal . and security he deemed indispensable. The chug() l'ope.• From these cause's it originated ; and from T the it? Aud has there been uo temptation to the of all the others; and that without this the re-' of bigotry, which had been advanced by the Noli!e sure, and other circumstance r peculiar to the times, 1 attempt ? He is in the hands of France ; and has moval of all the others will not be felt as a boon.— Marquis against those who were adverse to the [ne tt crew, and reached its prtseat state. In the timed there been uo temptation to exercise it in Spain, in What is the authority on which this argument is nitude of the Catholic claims, he thought misapplied, of James I. the Popish plot, and the power of the ! Portugal, and above all, in the Spanish colonies ? If . brought forward ? It is that of those unfortunate ! and Concluded with repeating, that unless perfect se- Roman Pontiff, excited alarms in the minds of the! he had the influence still, who could doubt that it 3 persons who, for having inflamed the rebellion in : curity were offered, lie must oppose the Catholic de- Protestants, and urged them to circumscribe the ', would be called Utah by Bonaparte ? But he knew it 1 Ireland, were rendered amenable to the laws of their ; mends. power of the Catholics. The events which occurred I tote inseles,--he anew that the idea of using the spi-lcountry. Wnen they were brought up to be ex- ! The LORD CIIANCELLOR, considering the in he reign of Charles I. and ended i u the overthrow ritual power of a captive man would be utterly vague,, stained before the Committees of Lords and Corn-' subject to be of deep and vital importance, had of the monarch, led to a similar policy. At the titne.iend he thOrefore did not cdsll it forth.. But it might I,tectlis, this was no doubt their opinion ; and if it was i thought it his duty very early to offer his humble of the ltestoraticin, the greatesteealousy was ititele !be said, Bonaparte had only seized the tempora-i to be relied on, Catholic E m ancipation was no object I sentiments upon ft; and there was no wish nearer tamed of all those who dissented from the' Establish- I titles, leaving the spiritual power free. No ; why 1 with the people. But who could rely upon the ad- ito his heart, than by any wise; politic, and consid ed Church ; and measures were taken against. the ; did he summon the Bishops of Paris ? By that Act ; vice of such men, under such circumstances ?-- ' eft measures, to conciliate every description of his • Digsenters, in which the Catholici were involved.— Ihe went directly to abolish the spititual power in the i Their object had been to inflame the come. ' Majesty's subjects, and to unite them at that awful NV :et the noliey of the Government of Charles 11. I Pope, and vest it in himself. I cannot think that I try ; and I cannot doubt that it was still their , and momentous crisis in the common cause of the his anal htnent to the Catholics, and his subservi enc y:the s li g ht es t d anger i s t o b e f eare d w hil e he . remains a ! object ; that their opinion was shaped to their ob- ' empire. •To the opinions and to the enlarged mind to France, began to be developed, the -Protestants ! captive. But the doctrines are turned epon. The ° ject ' • and that, in seeing their advice adopted, they of the Noble Marquis he was prompt to pay all de. e became aturallv . alarmed for their Establishedldectrines hottile to our Constitution ar e upheld, I looked forward to seeing the country inflamed and ference, and if that Noble Marquis could but con • Church, as well as for the liberties o f th e coun tr y ; I even though the Pope may have fallen. I say that made hostile for ever. Tie s , I b e li eve fi rm ly ; an d since him he was wrong, lie would at once and especially When tee great power of France at th a t . those doctrines have also fallen I :— they have been every thing they said, before and since that time, cheerfully vote with him. Most earnestly and cor. time was takeninte account, and the known deter- ' abjured, 4s far as relates to 1 tempera's, and, iii some i has confirmed me in that belief. Then comes the dially did he wish for such conviction. But he intention of the Ft•encli Court to support the Catho- i instances , to - • ' as spirituals, by the great Catholic be- ' great question of the safety of the Church. I am' could entertain but little hope of acqeiescing with the lie eause. • Bet the penal lawi did not flbw merely 1 dies, in the most solemn manner. By some it was I convinced, that the Church is in no danger, but from : Noble Marquis while he was made ' liable to he from these conside ra ti o n s . Th e public mind was ' answered , that the doctrines were never held, by al!, i those disabilities. Can it be doubted from which the branded with the charge of bigotry. if he was a kept in estate of perpetual agitatioe andb •• I alarm, ) that they were n ot held n o w, l am as h ame d t o re p ea t ' greater danger is to arise--from the admission of a : bigot, he was so in conformity with all the princi. eceonnte of Vets and mitispiracies, which, however , what has b 1 ' b een so often impressed upon yea." The ; few, by their qualifications, into the service of the • pies which had pervaded and animated the Consti- I foolish they nevi appear, then excited the most serious ; Noble Marquis - then proceeded to exam i ne th e ob. : ei a t e • o r the absolute exclusion of a great body,' I tenon since the Revolution; arid he was pent npprehmitiOns. Udder these circumstances, the I jection, that though those doctrines were renounced I bound and condensed together by that exclusion , liarly surprised to hear those principles made light lagent selisd of danger led to additional disabilitie s , l b y the Universitiesand the P o p e , th ey were s till v p.li n t o a principled hostility against the Establish-; of by the descendants of some Noble persons who Itud the severest penalties . •At a later period of oa rlid, as not being renounced by the same authority I merit I"—[llear, krar!]—llis Lordship then spoke ; had in their illustrious day been most consp i cuous I itiitory,:enti the rdge of James 11. the same octet- whi h • c promulgated them. They were authorised of the necessity of an early consideration. It in maintaining them. Ile would humbly ask the 1 Mond principles proanceit anextension of the Code. originally by a General Council ; bet that Council I had always appeared to him that what was to be I Noble Marquis what was the substance of what he inamel followed up the policy of his brother, with I was not / existing to revoke them. They were dim- I done, must not *e delayed, if it was to be dune ! had that eight proposed ? Was it not concession rather *tore 'Old, and less concealment. ,The alarm rose; rowedrevoke dand , disobeyed by all existing au- : well and wisely. The consideration of the question ; than consideration? Was it not all concession and see the highest pitch ; and hence arose the ne- therit ' * iessity of providing agitinst a Popish .succession y. But in the present state of the Popedom a' had been always deferred s and apparently without :no consideration ?He had been called an enemy to General Council could not be held, and thus that ' ttlf • . s 'meta reason. lie (Lord W.) had been decided I the Catholics: the charge was false, he was no lo the throne, which the poWer hod policy of ,renunciation was im "Itl the French Govermnent at that *fie ' tendered like this posst e; and was it fora tea _' in ids with to give it the earliest discussion of which ! enema to any description of his Majesty's subjects, , son that a system of haws so hostile to th - ;end indeed, considering. the situation which, by . le 's peculiady dangereui to y the religion and tilor. 'spirit of all taw . ,'t ' th' -2 • - ties of the cbuistry. When William ascebded the - spirit Of the Conatit o ' 6 spirit of religion, to the: slots, at which it bad come connected even with Majesty's favour, he had so long enjoyed, he should 'Throne, we kno* &it he was by inn nyeonsidered es lit it Wee talon, Wakta be su ff enedeo ax. other matter, before the. House , it had pressed for be the most criminal of men if he could properly be e there any thing to excellent in iteframe i a speed y consideration ; sad again in April,•when called an enemy to any part of the community.— too revolltuble tit getletal toTeretiOn•-woo liiicsureble ..' . " 411 pistrett" In its symmetry,—so Booed in its ob.! ' the subject came forward again, he had stated, The Noble Marquis had given a conspicuous exam- Otte OidetWil 14licititP , W .4 -aftvAlfotilliteri fi t ISlV"stiile • - Saki ItsfrOflit deli whit. to OiigskiLit let - tiai, the mattech. o ht tto Ji elommintt •pie of the utility of c ideation, in the proof how . 14 AO ~ e. e ar, es inWU r lip }