The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-12-19 00:00:00

THE STATESMAN; see - - . e....e. ...e._ ...___._ _ ... ... ......... .e. . - - b i d been engaged, and In consequence of which cos which Ministers could not controul; but itt Mr. --- —-- - , tha t tbe.,.Han. Pau,. be consideepda lee,. eve. OW then s u e :sietaidy in they n ereenduring, with unexampled patience and for- • other respects, they were occasioned by • ca u ses, I Oman (Mr. Poisson!) was the happy . in. th e topics aid of the war in Russia • for BNTHUksT observed o. titu d e , all the miseries of war, they had most dim- which might have been prevented by Government . ' which he hadmrged as being mot i v e s r th e grant the Russian Government e o . f the) 4buytydoisef discharging question. toady ar . d extensively relieved the distresses of Great No man who examines the events which have taken in His first objection had consisted in a ing a eumeoualto:this to IM suffer* tillbjfetot t it left Br i ta in. Since the commencement of the triumphs of place within the last two or three years, can enter- I mere cavil upon the words speedy. ..,0 _ e ff ec t ua l : — an equal sum appliatle to the purpose of dining the t h e Russian arms a brighter day had dawned upon .tain a doubt, that, if there had exist e d a s i ncere I N ow h e apprehended that what thie, liou e eteen' . - French fromllteEmpireeor to tbittof crushing their the m anufactures and commerce of this country ; and and earnest desire for peace and conciliation ' with : Vermin had suid, as to its b e i ng i mposs ibl e . . that the pOwer. It was iesafeeidy then-4 Petty/ .apd cotes scar cely a day passed without some account being ob. America, for instance, the .rupture w hi c h h as un- I relief could be speedy, was by n o mean ; just.— temptible. subsidy as to' the piitpoluk - ot • the war. tamed of new employment for our artizans, and new fortunately now taken place, • might have been !It certainly did depen d much would b u e po a n pp th li e ed m , a w n h n e e t r b i e i r i s N e V r h/ Q h f ad t4 no s t uh t . h e e re a rs im been the allevidelen - of the ine. ;,, e itemeets to their industry—industry, which had avoided . —Elleor, hear, hear ! ]—taut, there is ! which the sum granted hee ,, m uch damped and depressed by ;he loss of the another point, which I cannot help noticing par- 1 the relief But if sould afford would be speedy sum.lee' centined..to,Rit S s l s m ia ul i d 're t p h e e r a , P t i o 4i th el e ti :s n ci ' li f iti t o h i 3 l nier i c an ninrket ; but which now found fresh encou-• ocularly, I mean the language which fell from or not if Miuisters did apply the grant in of the countries through which the French hid pw r.gemettl. and revived with fresh vigour, from the the. Noble Lord (Castlereagh) opposite, early in ; specie, as h e sup p ose d they wou ld , t h en i t must ed, in-Making (what had been termed ii) ebe e Nes teule carried on with the open ports of Europe. the Session, as to the situation of Spain. - 'the. be a speedy relief to the dist resse d R uss i ans .— sa g e) thi s unprovoked- aggtession on the Empire of th er t ine deliberation, it had been teought right .to Noble Lord observed, that the wish of Russia was f ' The Hoe. Gentleman, however, die no t properly at- Russia? ,Front Hie . ieeistauce of Ruesiee; if wisely propos e that 200,0001. should be the sew to be that we seould employ our whole force in suppo r t tend to the wor di ng o f th e M essage . I t did nit sit y : taken advantage of, the greUtost blesslietit might en 'grouted : neither ton much for Great Britidn.to he- -of the Spanish cause e not only as it affected Spain that the supply would be speedy and effectual •, but . , sue. This, however, was as yet tincertain In (he steer , n or too little for Russia to receive.—[Near, herself, but as affording the most powerful as s ist- . that it ought to be speedy and effectual. I n or de r t o : mean ti me , th er e we re i n so m e parts.oiethisi;enutterY Rear!] —It had been deemed expedient, that the.rote save to Russia. The Utter desired n othi ng f or r ender it e ff ec t ua l, not hi ng , certa i nly, was wanting, `cases of as crying dieti:JS, as, Mal of the reit th of War • n ow to be passed should exceed any of the former, he r s e lf ; s he b a d e u s give every aid w e cou ld snare but the concurrence o f the R uss i an Government] couldbe. Suppose a Grant was proposed to :hese Aut. me t e for similar purposes—the `grant was btiYhhtl e .to the support of the contest on the Peninsula, as and of this there was no doubt to be entertain ed f or i . ferers ; would it not be said to he insprOP4 to ac. example, because the occasion was beyond example. being the most useful and most efficacieus mede one metnent. The lion. Gent. had said th a t he did ; tempt to alleviate private distresi ? But woad it, Out lov: wended an termer efforts, not only made by that could be adopted, to inspirit and support not suppose that one farthing of the sum granted .be an act of justice to our country,, beforer . ••we go : . Bessie, but by any other country. History coati': the Russian People in the efforts they were then would be bestowed on the peasantry of Russia; but ! abroad with our charity, to knew. wheelies...et!' e• liaee no rel ine! the heroic instances afforded of patriotic making in their own cause. And we were told, that it would all be put into the treasury of the Em- i not objects at home, to whom it m:ght be•extendee selfelerotion and heroism. By the intelligence re- as a reason for not giving them any direct aid, that peror. If such really was the opinion of the Hon .' with advantage? cussed, it appeared, that thousands—he might say Engfind, in...sustaining the Spaniards, had done Gent. he must also have. thought that all tlte sums, Lord CASTLEREAGH contendedethit f ieCnm hundreds of thousands, had been compelled to abase.. all that she could possibly effect in support of the coalr b ited by the cobility and inhabitants of St. mittee had, in the Vote o f'the Supply, pre see.. 1 ' d on th e ir comfortable homes to a brutal enemy, and Russian contest. Ministers distinctly told us, lest Peterdtargh, instead of being applied to alleviate grounds founded on the late grant to the • people uf • i n see k f o r safety in the woods, that could not af- i the entire force of the country was so employed, the distress of the peasantry, would also be placed ' ' Portugal, on "hich they Could act with no less belie. f e el them shelter. Did not these unhappy beings i that no farther exertion could he made. And in the coffers of the E-mperor. The Hon. - Gent. voleuce than justice. The ,consequences predicted, cetim the admiration and the compassion of all the yet, after this declaration, we -hear a proposition had said, he should vote for the grant, as a gift by the Supply voted to the people of Portugal, were• enem ies t o tyranny ? It was true, that no sum could submitted to the House, that 200,0001. should he to the Emperor, fer that was the object of the of the most advantageoue nature; and the grant had, g i ve effectual aid ; but at least it would show, that granted, not to Spain, but to assist Russia, she her- M esage, as he would have had the House believe. ' under all the circumstances of the ca!e, mild° an in• G rea t B r itain sympathized in the noble feeling.. and self not desiring any thing, but requesting, on the If the object was really and !,ona fide, a gut to the : delible impression on the feelings of, that natioa. Ito i n th e un merited calamities of the sufferers. Would contrary, that all our ef f orts should be in favour of Ereperor, what would becoete Mettle rest of the Hon.. would not, however, refer to that vote as a justifies. i t b e no con s o lation to them, to know that they 1 Spain—(No ! No ! from the Gliwice:loe of the Ex- Gentleman's argument ? How would it apply to the , Hon of the proposed grant, or as a principle upon did no t s tand alone; that the hatred , of their . ene- ; chequer.)—The Right lion. Gentleman says, Peninsula war r The negative which had been given which the House ought to conduct itself; hut he my , an d the lore of their country, was shared equally 1 " No !" but I appeal to the House, whether I - do to the lion. Gentleman, was not from a misstateinew . would take up the question, as it plainly ttock b y E ng li s hmen ; that tlify sympathized with their! not state, with the utmost accuracy, what fell from about the war in Spain, but to contradict his irisi. him. The question, then, in reality, Was, whether miseries, although fortunately they did not part i ci . 1 the N o ble L o rd, at the begiening of the Session ; ruation, that the sum which it was proposed to grant ' the sufferings and calamities inflicted upon the pea pate them? It had been stated last night, that the ! and I should be most MIA Ming indeed to misre- was intended as a gift to the Emperor. The ques- . ple of Russia, were not such, and originating front ' mone y now to be applfed to relieve the calamities of i present any lion. Member.--iir, there is another lion was not one about the support of the war, but , such a source, as to he identified with the common others, ought to be appropriated to alleviate the dis- I subject, most intimately connected with the pre- one which had for ;rs object the relief of the pea. i cause, and great political interests of this country, tresses of our own. It should be remembered, that ! sent, to which I must shortly advert. We all sentry of Russia, who had endured such extraordi- ' :tad of Europe, and to render the* claim upon the the difference in the price of all the necessaries of life I know and feel, and I am sure we • would, to the nary privations, and had been exposed to unpre. ' Committee for the grant altogether irresistible ? He made the expences of subsistence mach less in Russia ! full extent of thesmeans in our power, relieve, if cedented hardships in behalf of what should he begged leave to disclaim expresAy, the name given than in England; and while the lam now to be de- we knew any effectual mode in which it could be considered as the cowmen cruise of F.urope. Nei- by the Right Hon. Gent. to the grant, when he Toted to the former would, therefore, be of great ad- done, the distresses of the manufacturers of Eag- ther were there wanting in the records of the called it a subsidy. Ilow such a term could he ap. vantage, here, comparatively little benefit would he land, now suffering under the most severe pressure. House, procedents for such a measure as the one plied to a great Power acting upon a scale almost derived from it. Above all it appeared to the Chan- But although Ido not doubt their good wishes to in question. At the 'time of the earthquake of . unexampled in vigour, in resources, in determinatioe, cetlor of the Exchequer, that whatever was afforded. the cause which this country is now sup .nr tne , Lisbon, a similar step had been taken to the one , was for the Right lion. Gent. to explain ; but the should be given speedily and spontaneously, and let yet an event has taken place within a few month 2 now in agitation. He did not wish to mix with the , Committee and tho country, lie trusted, would be the sum he large or small, it would be received in which must sensibly affect the feelings of every ma i present question any thing regarding the behaviour ! convinced, that, while we forebore to grant any such Russia with thankfulness, acknowledged with gra.i- in England. but more particularly of thus • wno of Ministers iii the matter of the American war.-- ! paltry subsidy to the j[lustrions and magnanimous tude, and applied with honesty : it would unite the are labouring under such complicated diforese and; it was su ffi cient for him to say, that as far rs his , M onarch, whistle exertions had been crowned wiUt two countries in indissoluble bonds : it would show misery. l would ask, what disposition have Mi. knowledge went, Ministers had done every thing in 1 successes equally Orions and important, we were, that there was not only between them a unity of in- sisters shown to enable the coital ry to grant proper their power towards the cultivation of amity he.; at the same time, by the Rote now proposed, sobsitliz terest, but a unity of sentiment, and it would este- assistance, where it would be useful, will as little tween this country and the American States. The : big the sensibilitiesand generous feelings of the world. Mies the truth of every traveller, that there was a general pressure as possible, by abolishing mine. last topic urged by the Honourable Gentlemen was, 1 , It was a vote by which the people of England common affriity in the natures of the inhabitants, c,tssary (Arcs, and retrenching saperduoue ex- that Ministers had made no retrenchments In sine-' could hold out to mankind a noble testimony of which, if duly encouraged, would be an everlasting j peaces? Have they, from,thecommencemeeit of the cure placee, and therefore they had no right to make : their sympathy and their affections. That was the source to both of happiness, prosperity, and liberty : I present Session, made any proposition on that sub- the application then under discussion. The Ito-' view which he had of the measure—a =mare Which as every exertion of these two mighty empires would : ject ? And whet has become of the Sine cure Abo. utterable Gentleman, when he urged this, forgot :could not press upon the wants 'of the people, but be mutual, so every effort would be successful. the I titian Bill, introduced by the ilon. Gentleman (el r. new had been said in the 'louse during the former; would operate to the promotion and Consolidation of these grounds he submitted the Resolution, which he i Bankea) below me?--[From the Tr;.-asurs Omsk it Freesias, when a Bill for the suppression of -sinecure . their hest interests. The moment was pregnant hoped would be unanimously carried, " That tt was observed, that the Bill passed ate Coututons.]— places was proposed. On that occasion the proposer i w honourableth the happiest results, and if wisely improved, sum not exceeding '200,0001. be granted to his Me. If the Gentlemen opposite felt, as I and my Hoe. of the Bill said, that he pushed the measure for the , might lead to a peace, which, to be honourable and jesty, for the relief of such parts of the Empire of ; Friends did, on the propriety of euppressing such purpose of producing an effect en the public mind ; lasting, ought to lie founded on priticipies of true Russia as have suffered from the invasion of that I offices, and of curtailing the public expenditure, for that he was sensible, that although the Bill should ! national security, on the acknowledged rights uf na. country." we would have more than su ffi cient for the purpose pass, that it could not be the means of sa v ing one 1 tions, and on the p ublic law of Euro p e. [Hear, Mr. PONSONBT—" When I state, that it is ' of defraying those charitable calls which are made farthing of the public money. The Right Hon. I hear !] The House would consider, that, Ly the my intention to vote for the sum now proposed to .on us. We are told, that the :Sinecure Abolition Gentleman thee concluded his speech, by repeating L grant, they we.,o accelerating the period in which be granted, I think it necessary to declare, that . I ! Bill passed this House ; I ktrw it (lid ; and I do his approbation of the measure then under conside- • the people of England would be onebledeo sit .down am not induced to do so on account of the reasons : not mean to make any remark on what occurred ration. in the enjoyment of peace, such as it ought to 10., advratced by the Right floss. Gentleman (the Chan. 1 elsewhere. But, lam sure, that, if the Gentlemen . Mr. PONSONRV said, the Right Hon. Gentle- with all its real happiness, and legitimate blessin;s. ceilor of the Exchequer), nor because I consider the ion the other side were guided by the feelings which matt seemed to misunderstand what he had advanced Sir FRANCIS BURDETT did net thee: it ne- Message which has been just read, as couched in ; itiduenced those who supported the Bill, some appli- as to the grant going to the Ereperor of Beissia. He' misery to occupy mach of the time, u hile explaining terms likely to invite thu Committee to that limn& ', cation would have been made to the Throne for a re- hail expressed his belle that it would wet go to the t the reasons which preventedbitn tram concurritig sat mons egreemesit which the Right Hon.' Gentleman ' commendation on the subject. I rivet that no peasantry, and he was still of the tame opinion—for I the proposition made to the Committee by the seems to think so extremely desirable. The Message': measure of the kind has been adopted—because, the. the Right Hun. Gentleman must admit, that, by I Chancellor of the Exchequer. He had heard with recommends the house to give to the sufferiug ' state of the country, the situation of the pedPle, and whatever name they celled the grant, it was either a I•setisfaction the speech of the Noble Lord opposite Russians a speedy and effectual aid ; neither of the posture of the finances , demand it. I am, at the gift to the Russian Government , or its ai d of the R im .' (Lord Castlereagh ) who had. taken up the subject . in A hie , t ends can be answered by the course about . same time, persuaded, that, if we were now to mega- Sian sufferers—and, biking his own conetruction, he; an' able Ind 'titatesmae-like manner; he had heard to he pursued. Speedy our assistance cannot tive this vote, although I think many Gentlemen must see, that, as it was the duty of the Russian Go- I with great Satisfaction peace mentioned for the first be—because the Right lion. Gentleman has in- may be conscientiously convinced to the contrary, we vertunent to protect its own people, the grant must ! time, as the ultimate result we had in view•in the formed us, that, before it is afforded, it will .be 1 would do infinitely more harm to this country than therefore be a gift to that Government for this per. :.strue.g!e; he had heard the intimation that the necessary for the Government to have sonic comma.: can result from taking the 200,0001. from the pub- pose ; and so he (Mr. Ponsonby) would have called 1 other Governments of Europe were in the same dis- Ideation with the British Ambassador at St.- Pe. i lic. Russia, exclusive of every other plea iii her fa- it, and not given it the colour it at present bore. As 1 positions, and for the first time, he believed, since tersburgh—therefore, this speedy aid, intended I your, has this great and additional merit, in refer- to the observation on the abolition of Sinecures, he' he had a seat in that House, he had felt in to alleviate the distresses of a population, who ! once to us—she has preferred a state of warfare, did not say, nor did he imagine, that such a measure dined to support a measure proposed by Govern have been driven to the woods for refuge, will: rather than permit to be exercised, with the utmost would at once produce a sum sufficient to defray this ment. But he had many and weighty reasons to reach them at the close of winter, when their wants rigour, in her dominions, that which is called the grant ; he was convinced, however, that it would in- repress that first impulse of' the moment. 11' con and necessities will no longer be so severe, and Continental System. And I am of opinion, that if crease every day ; aryl, at all events, it would be sidered the state of the penpie, labouring under a oppressive. as they are at present. The Message ! she succeeds in this gieat struggle, and by that sufficient to pay the interest of the slam they would . load of taxes they were unable to pay ; he con also speaks of effectual aid. Now, I do not think 1 means opens a market, by which our manufac- now be obliged to fund, and which, as things were . sidered the nature of the alliance, in virtue of which ere can give such aid as can justly he termed effec- tures may he diffused abroad, we shall, in a very at present, must come out of the pockets of the ' the Committee was called uponeto vote the petit in question. That alliaitce was now represented at teal, because this country has not the meeas in her short time, obtain infinitely greater advantages than p eo p le. Poner--even if the people wished to be as charitable could be derived from any domestic. a pp ortionment Mr. WHITBREAD was sorry to say, that the ' noble, disinterested, magnanimous , and tendin g to as the Right Hon. Gentleman, or as extravagant as of the sum called for.---glear, hear tl—lf the Right grant would not pass unanimously. On the Message the deliverance of Europe ; but . he recollected, that anY Gentlerosnevihe heard him, we could net, in lion. Gentleman had fairly and candidly stated, that .being first read it had struck him that the grant was that alliance had been so qualified before, and•abali illy opinion, give effectual aid. Are ire rich Pee ugh the Russian Government welded this assistance at ' net prop er ; and on discussion with friends whom he dotted by Russ ia . . [Hear, Asa: t] Considering the to rebuild Moscevie? Can we /dice the Russian the present moment, I w ould have voted for it with- . res p ected, and who entertained sentiments on the sub- present state of Europe, he did not think,, ilfdeoll, People in the same situation in which they' stood, out hesitation. But Ido not like the form of the ject different from his own, he had not found reason that the same thing was likely to occur again in this before they were invaded by France ? Certainly we Message, nor the words in which it is conveyed.— i to change his opinion. Some of the grounds of his instance , and he felt great satisfaction in reflecting, cannot; and, therefore, it is a most visionary pro- Yet though, in another shape, I should voted for it : dissent from the grant had b e en stated by his Right that we were not likely to he enthralled again h r the Jed. But, Sir, I will vote for this motion, for other immediately, Ido not mean to say, that I would ! Honourable Friend. Ile did not, moreo ver , think it mazes .of. treaties Wei endless wars. The !Noble and very different reasons. In my *pinion, if we support a system of su bsid y to Russia. Her g rettest I just to this country to take money out of the pockets Lord • opposite had staled, that the grant was its- VMiI this money, not a single pound of it will go merit is, that s he has entered, unbou g ht , into the : of our starving manufacturers, to apply it to suf- tended for the relief of the Russian- people, but the to the relief of the Russian peasantry. I vote for it contest with Franco. We have not enticed her to it. I fevers to whom, unhappily, it could be of no use. Hon. Baronet did not feel, that the country was so ether as a gift to the Emperor, to assist him in the It is a spontaneous exertion ; the result of her own 1 Those unfortunate beings who, as the chancellor of circumstanced as to afford relief to any people in situation w hich 'the war in his dominions has pro - councils. S he had the o p tion either to resist or to I the Exchequer had stated, had f sought shelter front . the world. ; There were, besides, no pledges of doted; and because, 'if i refused ft at the present accept the terms offered by France. And, I be- ! the severity of a Russian winter in their forests, were economy in other 'branches given to that' 110 thee Inoineist, it would seem as if we harboured a cold...,lieve, that, without any communication with this now, alas 1 as senseless as the snow with which ' which could i n some measure jestify a grant not itu. Peer towards the anise it would look as if we were country, at all events, without any promise of pecu. I they were surrounded ; .and now, if they continued , mediately connected ttith the service of the country ; t indisposed and ittrilling to assist Russia in the • niary assistance, she chose the part which was most :to exist„ could the 'small sum which they ., were and he begged of the Gentlemen, before dhey voted . glorious struggle which she is now making. Weer, . congenial with her honour and her ineepeudeisce ; I that night called o n . to vote, . afford . them relief le- e . for it, to look at the . situatien.of the people from hear!] This is my reason for voting in favour of and performed her ditty most nobly. [Hear,. hear!]' Though the contest in Russia might have It tendency whom it was to be wrung, and who were to be the grant—and not from any of those which have Therefore I think we could not do a more mis. i , to increase our ow n li secu b rity ; yet . to imagine that over-burthened with taxes ; that •itist a Newspaper been recently adduced. I confess that Ido not like : chiceous thing , than to show even the semblauce of . this 200,0001. con tb e a mid of unity between that . could be found but a fford e d ample instances ortheir the words of this begging Message e because it has i a backwardness or a coldness in her cause. O n this .naticu and ourselves, would be to contradict the tea- inability to pay them. He had heard agree duet of rather a canting and hypocritical appearance, to ! principle, and for these reasons, I vote for the s imony of experience. .It had been the interest of ..the magnanimity of the Russiatisottig oftheir.eolenta . He %sae come to us for money, in this mode, when the' grant ; but certainly not on the reasons which the Russia to enter into . amity with its; she had acted is ry saerihces in the defence cf their countOr Minister might have given it another shape, and . light Hole Gentleman has given. Whatever may pursuance o f t interest, and in accordance with no admirer of the conflagration of' MoEeeth nee did ntade use of very different reasons. When I vote be the distresses of the people, I . hope, when they that interest she would act hereafter. It had been he , believe that the Russian ,Government approved for the sum proposed" in conformity with the files -; look to the motives assigned by at least one Member said,thatCommittees of Nobles had been formed— . • not to have been a p a. of • that measure, much more • than he diit- !dins& ; sage, I beg to be understood to feel, as deeply as ,of this House for the vote he shall give, they nip that the Emperor had exerted himself to a ff ord re- it appeared to him, in fact, any man, for the distresses of the people. f England '; see , that the sum proposed to he taken from their lief, by re'building habitations, and by alleviating the tri o tic sacrifice of the people, but the act of an in. - - -- - - from env -e what - tie misery of the sufferers. It did, Indeed, dividual. lie rested his belief on the Die . patois_ of as well as of Russia. And really; if it stood on the pockets, did not meet with his approbation, single ground, 'whether I shoul d take from the suf. forgetfulness of their situation, or from any unw.. feting people of England; to give to the suffering lingness to silence their complaints and relieve their People of Russia, I would feel disposed to meet the necessities—but, from a feeling, that, by refusing proposition with a negative. Sir, the distresses of the grant, I should do much m ore in j ur y to tita 'he people of England, lam rea dy to admit, have I country, that can possibly arise Iroin its being at been brought on, is maivatopects, by circamstaa• ceded to. poiinint ~ . behove the Russian Government to do away with all Generat - Kutusow, after whk. was called the victe. the pomp of state--to apply all the resources of the ry of Borodino, and who stated, that, notniti . empire to this olkject : it was mere particularly stapding his successes, he had retreated to pi'event the the duties of that GovernmAt to do so, from the dangers to which Moscow might be expoqed. But 'f'ommisslon of an act, sitar ID Illkidelit itlstry— it was a too common practice in this country. to she conaspotion et Kim:ow. .411iis Ans..sould magnify every thing which might be swostrued inte ..1 ._.'t d3.14. - A: ~ . e mus lc , no; 1 . . ....... . 1•• r i : iv,w,, ~,ri il , I g • ' l 1 • 1~ •J . ~ ~' F.