The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-04-28 00:00:00

1 TilE STATESMAN. k tie allegations of Mr. Creevey, were derived from the most respectable authority. Mr. WHARTON here witness to Coe deference due to the quarter to weich the Reitourable Gene ral (Tar Hon) was inch bted for his iatelli;ence, and stated that he had himself received letters corrobo: rating the facts formerly brought before the House. The Petition was thee brought up and read.—le . asserted, that nearly 16,C00 poor had been relieved by public subscription in one week, and that, in j the whole, about one-sixth part of the population of Liverpool had obtained chatitable donations, rendered necessary by the unparalleled distresses of the times. Numbers of once industrious mechanics could obtain no employment, and were reduced to the hard necessity of begging in the streets. It was as impious as it was unjust to attribute any of these evils to the visitations of Providence. The Peti tioners added, ‘e that they had heard with real alarm, that a high and confidential servant of the Crown did lately make use of language which appeared to develope more satisfactorily, the views and intentions of Ministers, than thousands of [ State Papers, and which shewed that they are pre pared to risk the very existence of the country, rather than remove the Orders in Council, the cause of the augmented calamities endured." After reprobating the system of Licenc's, they prayed that the Orders in Council might be withdrawn, since their effect had been found to be, to diminish the revenue of Great Britain, to rain her merchants, and to en courage neutrals to depend upon their own resnorces for manufactures, they had before derived from this country. Mr. ROSE Said, that he felt it incumbent upon him to give the mast positive contradiction to one paragraph in the Petition which referred immediate ly to himself, and which was founded on the grossest misrepresentation. It referred to a meet • ing between him and a Committee of Gentlemen from -Birmingham, at which his Right Honourable Friend (the. Chancellor of the Exchequer) was present, and the Member for the county of Warwick. In stead of the use of any language which could lead the gentlemen to think that Ministers were insensible to the distresses represented to them, the whole of the conversation shewed that Government gave full credit to the statement made ; and he (Mr. Rose) ex pressly said, that the iron manufactories of Bir mingham were peculiarly injured by the existing ob struction of trade with the United States; and he deeply lamented that nothing could be done for their relief. He denied, in the most positive meaner, that any thing passed which could be construed into an insensibility on his part, and he appealed to any Member that heard him, whether, throughout his public life, his conduct had not been governed by an extreme anxiety, if possible, to alleviate distresses whenever they were represented to him. He referred with the utmost confidence to his Right Hon. Friend, to state whether a single word had been uttered by him which could afford the weakest foundation for the expressions employed by the Petitioners. If he had conducted himself as was represented, he should think that be was unworthy of filling any office in the public service for the remainder of his existence. Mr. TIERNEY said, that the question was not ' 1 whether the Right Hon. Gent. was insensible to the miseries presented to his view, but whether he had employed the unfortunate expression referred to. He did not understand that the fact was denied that he (Mr. Rose) had said that the two countries were in the situation of two men whose heads were in a bucket of water, and the struggle was, which of the two could remain longest in that situation without suffocation. Mr. ROSE.—I assert again that I have no recol lection of having used such an expression, and I am certain that it was not addressed to any of the Gen- tlemeu who waited upon me. Ido not undertake to deny it positively ; it might have been said by me.— [Hear, hear!]—All I can undertake to state posi tively is, that no such phrase was used by me to the Deputation ; but whether . I said it to any other indivi dual I will not pretend to determine. I deny too, that if I used it, it proceeded from any want of feel ing on my part for the distresses complained of. Lord STANLEY said, that a few days afterwards he met some of the Gentlemen of the Deputation, who repeated to him the words referred to in the Pe tition, and certainly it was considered by them as shewing a great degree of insensibility on the part of the Right Honourable Gentleman. Mr. WARD remarked, that the expression had been repeated to him by a Member of the House a day or two after it bad been used. After a few words from General GASCOIGNE, the Petition was laid upon the table. Lord G. L. GOWER presented a Petition from the Borough of Walsall, complaining of the depres sion of trade, and praying the repeal of the Orders in Council as the cause of it. It was laid open the table. 'TI P I I Mr. BROUGHAM, after the conversation that just occurred, felt it right to say a few words before he presented to the House a Petition from certain in habitants of Liverpool, which had been committed to 14is charge. The names to it wouhi have been far more numerous had it lain for signatures more than an hour, which was impossible, in consequence of its being sent to London by the same express that conveyed the Petition presented by the Hon. Mem ber for that: town. The individuals who had signed it, had heard of the extraordinary expression em ployed by the Right Hou. Gentleman—[A laugh]— and, however it might he a matter of merriment to Others, it was a subject of a most melancholy nature to them, because it shut a door by which even hope was excluded, and they were unwillingly-compelled to believe, not only that Ministers would not re move the cause of their complaint, but that they would not even listen to the proposition of enquiry. Vicar, hear!] Neither he nor they meant to ac cuse Governmesit of levity, or even of indifference : the melancholy state of affairs would render such a charge ridiculous, but they felt that it was high time , to appeal to Parliament from their decision, which was, that each country was to try an experiment, like two men with their heads in a bucket of water, — The app lication of the Petitioners was not that the i Orders n Council should be repealed, but that ceia Wit siuecare places should be abolished, held by in.. dividuals who were fattening upon the war, while the rest of the country were starving.—The tion felt, had led them into personalities and indeti- 4 . Mr. BRAND had imagined that the Ri g ht H un . 'lvies tows cis individuals, but their language to the House was respntful and decorous. Upon the Gentle:matt (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) who whole, the numerous addresses presented, however had enforced the Call, would hitnegf have been tho first to make the usual motion. Ile had no doubt, they might differ in their -objects, proved irrefragably, that distresses prevailed, and it was the duty of the had the case been that of a per,on n o t coutsected uith IlOClie to enquire info their causes, and to endeavour Ministers,it Would have b ean , o . ti e hop e d th e ai speedily as poisibla to afford relief. Mr. Brougham House would, on this occasion, consider what was arel'ef erivilant . that the only adequate remedy was, due to IN own dignity. to lay Omelet* the reof by the abandonment of the Mr. WARD then withdrew his Amendment, arid prosent system of eomsserEial warfare. Mr. Fitzgetald was ordered to be taken into the cos . On th.: , question being pot, that the Petition be Cody of the Seajeant at Arms. brought up, THAN Ns TO Tlll. EARL or WELLINGTON. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER ob served, that he should have occasion to detain the probated tile discussion of a question now whi ch House a very s.ltot t time in submitting a motion si- He could be fully debated at its proper time to - morrow . miler to several others which preceded it, and with felt himself called upon to say a few word s with regard to the expression se much talked of, which respect to which, he anticipated but one unanimous was said to have dropped from his Right Honourable feeling. Whatever difference of opinion might pre- Friend. lie never was more surprised than when.he vail as to the policy of particular modes of warfare, he apprehended that there could be but one disposi theheard that an injurious impression had been left up o n minds of some individuals present at the inter- tion in readily embracing an opportunity of paying a tribute of respect and gratitude to those who bad view, for the Deputation from Birmingham appeared nobly distinguished themselves in arms. The present perfectly satisfied with the reception afforded them. Taxing his own memory, he had not the least trace was an occasion when they had to contemplate not less the abilities of the Commander than the gallantey though it might have been uttered of such a phrase as had been so often alluded to, al of the troops. The Noble Lord, at the head of the out of his hearing, or indeed within his hearing, he might not have no- army in Portugal, had, soon after the capture of Ciudad Rodrigo, turned his attention to the fortress ' 'iced it. Ile positively denied that it could justify n. ' any such mischievous impression as that to which it of Badajos, and with that skill and rapidity of a had been distorted.—[hear, hear!] — It bad been rangement, for which he was so much distinguished, employed to exasperate the public mind, for the par- immediately proceeded to its attack. With such , pose of producing mischief; and he was sorry to see celerity add effect were his dispositions made, that that Gentlemen in that House thus gave countenanat it was highly probable the enemy in the South was to such disgraceful attempts—[bear, hear n—h quite unapprised of his intention at the time was exciting a still more outrageous spirit in thesewhen he arrived before the eity.---Ilere the who were now emplOying themselves throughout the Right Honottrable Gentleman went into a par country in destroying all kinds of machinery. It tial detail of the operations as described in Lord Wel was indeed laying the axe to the root, and abolishing lington's Dispatches, and observed, that however the very means of future prosperity to the country, high was the admiration justly entertained of the by which the pressure now complained of might be, spirit and courage of our own troops, and the , alleviated. Such sentiments as had just been listened intrepid officer who led them, it was duo in justice to to encouraged and promoted the feeling which pro. I say, that the resistance of the enemy was most brave, duced these dismal' scenes of devastation.—[Hear, vigorous, and determined. Our loss had undoubtedly hear !]—He did not mean to make any charge upon been severe ; but it would be recollected that Lord Gentlemen, whose duty it was to present Petitions . Wellington was pressed for time, and that if he had put into their hands, but he would appeal to every ! protracted the siege till the breaches were more prac-1 man present at the interview alluded to (excepting , ticable, Marshal Soult might have invested Ciudad the individual who had originated the statement) , Rodrigo; and a greater ultimate loss in consequence whether any thing passed which could be perverted ; have been incurred. The names of the officers who into an expression of unkindness, harshness, or in- I had distinguished themselves were so numerous, and sensibility on the part of Ministers. hatever ! the instances so many, that it was impossible to se might have been the particular words employed, he' lect one or two individuals without doing injustice to would not take upon himself to determine, but he ; all the rest. With respect to the general importance of would bear positive testimony that in his Right Hen. , the enterprise, he could not but think it calculated Friend's mind there was no feeling which could jus• i to have a considerable influence on the affairs of the tify the distortion of phrase whieh had been attn. , South of Spain, and that the entrance of General buted to him. Ballasteros into Seville might be fairly attributed to Mr.TIERNEY said, that no contradiction had been I it. He concluded with moving the thanks of the given to the assertion in the Petitioo. [Criesof order, ' House to lieutenant-General the Earl of Welling. and hear !]—lt undoubtedly was fait that the Right : ton, for the great skill and ability he had displayed Hon. Gentleman should have an opportunity of ex.: in the capture of Badajos, &c. plaining the construction he put upon the words said; General TARLETON fully concurred in all that to have been employed. At present the sense applied I had fallen from the Right Hon. Gent. and expressed to the metaphor, seemed to be that whichit bore, ! his conviction that only British troops could have so without any perversion. It must be admitted that successfully accomplished so arduous an enterprize. a it conveyed no very pleasant idea to the minds of the 1 Colonel DILLON said a few words, which we Petitioners, when they were told that they were like could not distinctly hear. • a man with his head in a bucket of water. 1 Sir J. YORKE was of opinion that Lord Welling- Mr. ROSE repeated that he had not the most faint , too's services had not been sufficiently requited, and remembrance of having employed the language attri.. I recommended that he should be presented with a buted to him. All he could say was, that in his ! Marshal's staff. • mind there was nothiOg at all• disrespectful to the 1 General MATHEW said, that for the first time gentlemen, or unfeeling to the individuals they re. , in his life, and probably for the last, , he entirely' i presented. Ile was sorry not to see the lion. Meta- &Weed with the Right Hon. the Chancellor of the ber for Warwickshire in his place, who would be 1 Exchequer.—[.4 laugh.]—He thanked the Speaker able to state his recollection of the transaction. He 1 for the opportunity now afforded, particularly as he was happy that the present opportunity had been at. I had not been so fortunate on a former occasion. He forded him of disclaiming that which had been most I too was of opinion that enough had not been done in unjustly attributed to him, viz. an insensibility ! acknowledgment of Lord Wellington's merits, to to the complaints that had been urged. He thought which no encomium he had it in his power to bestow the case of the Manufacturers of Birmingham en- could render adequate justice.—[Hear, hear !]— titled to peculiar attention. There was scarcely any part of the world in whichhe Mr. BROUGHAM observed, that the figure of 4 had not acquired distinction—the high and proud die , speech in which the Right Honourable Gentleman Unction of a consummate General—Of a General had indulged, and which remained uncontradicted, who had never sustained a single defeat.—[Hear! had created a most melancholy impression. hear!]—He had heard of comparison, and of refer , Mr. BARING expressed his hope that the griev- enantothe Duke of Marlborough, and the other names ous complaints of the numerous Petitioners, who had which grace the military annals of the country ; for resorted to the House for redress, would be most se- his own part, he not only did not esteem him second riously considered. to any, bet believed that he had surpassed them all. Mr. LYTTLETON suggested, that if the Right [Hear !]—Never, indeed, did victorious commander Honourable Gentleman could not deny the precise lead into the field a more complete or gallant army, expression, at least he could disclaim the policy an army which,. through the person of their General which could dictate it. more richly deserved to be magnificently rewarded. Lord MILTON objected to the words as contain- Liard Wellington was distinguished at the same time ing a comment on the system Government intended as the friend and father of his soldiers, all of whom to pursue, with regard to the Orders in Council. would readily sacrifice their existence for his sake. Mr. ROSE observed that, to-morrow would be the He had known his Lordship for twenty years, and more fit time for the explanation required. thought he deserved as much as ever the immortal The Petition was then brought up, read, and laid Nelson. Even when for a short time he held a poll upon the table. tical office, he acquired the respect and esteem of his Mr. TAYLOR gave notice, that it was his inten. opponents by the frankness of his manners, and the tion, en the Wednesday after next, to submit a me- honesty of Ms heart. lie had not, when he laid tion to the House, founded on the Report of the i down that office to resume his military duties, acted . Committee appointed to enquire into the delays of • as another Secretary had done, whose whole life had suits in the Court of Chancery. been a scene of political servility, secured to himself!l Mr. HUSKISSON rose, to ask of the Right lion. I a pension of 15001. per annum, or procured the abo the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether it was his I lition of an office for the purpose of afterwards esta intention to bring forward any measure for the pur- blishing himself in it.—[Cries of Order! order!] I pese of checking the circulation of local tokens?— Mr. WARD observed , H that the on. Gentleman /MPORTAN'TDOcUMENTS RELATIVE TO AMERIC A. [Hear, hear!] If it was net, he himself proposed was wandering altogether from the subject under con- I Yesterday we laid before our Readers the Message to submit some proposition to the House, in order to sideration. remedy the growing grievance. Gen. MATIIEW, of the PRESIDENT of the United States of Ame- after a few words in explana- , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER an. tion, then sat down. rice, to Congress, charging the British Goren'- , swetecl, that it was his intention•shortly to bring for- Aftera few words from Mr.WHITSHED KEENE, ment with a foul conspiracy against that country. ward a measure of this description. in praise of the distinguished merits of Lord Wel- —We are now enabled to publish, the most Mr. LYTTLbTON postponed his motion for lington, in the Commissariat Department, the Vote important part of the documents which :weevil leave to bring in a Bill to amend the 22,Ge0. 3. till of Thanks was put and carried unanimously. partied the Message; and we area °pude*, with the I Tuesday, May 12. . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then An Account was ordered to be laid before the moved the Thanks of the House to General Beres - . Dublin Ev enin g Post, from which we copied them, Howe, of all bullion, hardware, &c. exported from ford, and the other Generals of Lord Wellington's that,if they should prove to be genuine , it will be Great Britain it' the Company's ships to India since Army. Also carried unanimously. , impossible that Ministers can continue in office. 1793. He then moved the Thanks of the House to the without a shameless abandonment of that honour. The further consideration of the Report of the Officers of Eugineers and the Officers of Artillery, aide character which ENCLAND, on every occa- Barrack Estimate was deferred till Friday next. British and Portuguese, for the professional ability . mon, a ff ects to assume. The sensation already pro- The Order of the House was then read for calling displayed by them. duced in Amer i ca, can be easily conceived by every over the names of the defaulters, when the Right Ho. Mr. C. W. WYNNE did not rise for the purpose nourelde W. Fitzgerald not answering to his name, of disturbing the unan imity of the vote upon this oe. man who loves liberty, and abhors the dissimulation Mr. W. Pole stated, that he was , persuaded some ac- c a leione He wished merely to remark, that a prac.. o f that policy, which seems to carry into any count/ eident must have happened, and on this ground de- tiee had been lately, since the battle of. Talavera, ' a firebrand, artfully enveloped with an ol ive branch, sired that he might be excused. _adopted, of not publishing the list of killed and f or or t h e purpose o f d ece i v i ng , i n order more effec- This was opposed by Messrs. Wynne and Eden , an dw oun d e d sufficently early after receiving theU Officers i - tually to destroy.—The sensation, too, which Gem Mathew. . dispatches. He conceived It was only necessary to Mr. R. WARD moved, that he be ordered to at- state this circumstance to have it redressed. Thep.' must produce on the Continent of Europe, whets teed in his place on this day se'onight. astral opinion, he believed } wits t h epu bli cationth• best interests ny3ritain s wits , Of . oan Ia deviled Wf -., f. I . . . . : . .. • • . • . 1 , 7, ~ - . . - the Extraordinary Gazette was purposely postponed to a late hour, to prevent its being copied into the ilveniog Papers. However it might happen, In his opinion the list of killed and wounded Officers should be immediatc4y struck off, at least as soon after re. ceiling the dispatch as possible, that those persons who had relations in the engagement 'might receive the earliest information of their fate. On the late occasion the Extraordinary Gecette was published at so late an hour that many persons could not send it by the post that evenin g . Lord cASTLEREAGII said he would make every enquiry into the circumstance mentioned by the Ho. nourable and Learned Gentleman. It was, i:► his opinion, desirable that the lists of killed and wound. ed officers should be made out with all possible ac. !.curacy, which necessarily required some consider. able time. : ul c epub l ic ear b ly aw as half-past po of s t many two Mr. GILES observed, that the Gaeli c was i n t h e a P n e d rs o th n r s e einc'peulobelkic offies s 9 _ . • ever, had great difficulty in getting it at seven o'clock. Some unaccountable delay must have taken 'place it the publication. Colonel WOOD believed that the list of killed and wounded was made up long before the printing if the Gazette; he had seen that list in a public coon at twelve o'clock of the night on which the dis patches arrived. This circumstance, however, was probably not generally kcown. Sir W. W. WYNNE observed, that the list was published only in one Evening Paper. The Thanks were then carried unanimously. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sett moved the Thanks of the Houses* the Officers of th e British and, Portugpese forces, which were also unit nimousiy carried. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said in rising to move the Thanks of the House, to the Non-commissioned Officers and Soldiers of the army under Lord Wellington, for the zeal, bravery, and humanity displayed by them, he could not help tak. ing notice of one circumstance which bad taken place, as well at the taking of Ciudad Rodrigo, as en the late occasion, and that was the small number of killed and wounded of the enemy, and the great number of prisoners. He confessed it did appear to him a distinguished circumstance, in proof of the humanity, as well as bravery of our army, that after so bloody and obstinate a resistance, so small a num ber of the enemy should be killed, while upwards of 4000 prisoners were taken.—[Hear, hear ti I The Thanks were carried unanimously. Lord BINNING moved the postponement of the Committee, on the Mail Coach Bill, to Friday next. Mr. BANK'S moved for a Committee of the House, on the Sineesre Office Bill. After a few words from Mr. Rose, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Baokes, and Sir John New port, the Bill was committed. The Report was then brought up, and ordered to be taken into further consideration this day se'n. night. 'Die House then went into a Committee of Supply, when Mr. R. WOOD moved an additional grant of 6501. to Mr. Greathead, for his useful invention of the Life Boat, which, after a few words from Messrs. Hutchinson and Blokes, was agreed to, and the Re port ordered to be received to-morrow. The Irish Population Bill was cent-mined for re. day next. The Members Bankrupts' Bill passed through the Committee, and the Report ordered to be taken into further consideration on Friday next. The One and Sixpenny Duty Bill passed through the Committee, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow, and then engrossed. Mr. SINCLAIR moved for a Return of the num ber Voting in each shire of Scotland, for the election of Members of Parliament, from the Ist Jan. 1714, to the 31st March, 1812.—Ordered. The Committee of Ways and Means was postpen., ed till Wednesda7 next. The Irish Spirits Bill was read a third time and passed. The other Orders of the Day were thee dis posed of, sod the House adjourned.. NEXT THURSDAY THE JATTERY WILl► BE DRAWN. &NM -• SUM W. - Dubllo 1 Wages*ld 1 • .... , Lisbon •• 0 i U 0 eluernte yl J s I. 0 . ......•••• B ersey • .... ...... _ a . Heligoland • I 1 PRICE OF STOCKS THIS. DAT AT DIU ITIHSHIK Rank 917; Imllsla* et I 4 • S per Cent. Costs. Esthequee Bells per I p 3 per Cent. Red. a Ditto 4 per Cents. 744• Damien 5 per Cent. Navy 911 i Cassob for Aect. ilDi I Long. Ann. 15i 144Iery 'rickets Xit :IS STATESMAN. • LONDON: TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 1812. • If f • , P. I al it iti az