The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-01-22 00:00:00

Ii neceqsary to be shewn was, that there was a liability to misapplication. This Fund, he said, had its ex istence from a practice not authorised by the Law of Nations. Mr. ROSE, though he agreed with some of the Gentlemen who had preceded him, in their estima tion of the lion. and Learned Gentleman who had brought forward the present motion, thought, at the same time, that he had received a distinct and plain answer to every point which he had thought proper ,to urge. Could any abuse be pointed out in the ap plication of the proceeds of the Droita of Admiralty? The whole state of the expenditure was before the House, and lay open for their investigation—then this Fund taken from the Crown, it would be injurious to many claims which are at present taken into consi deration. When Lord Nelson, then Capt. Nelson, thought proper to suspend, of his own accord, the Navigation Laws in the West Indies, he was threatened with law suits, that would infallibly have ruined any man in his then situation. It had fallen to his lot to examine into the conduct-of Capt. Nel son, and, after a full consideration of the business, he told him, that it appeared to him he had done his duty, and if the judgments of the Courts of Law should go against him, he would take care to pro tect him from the consequences. At that time Capt. Nelson eas not worth 5001. in the world, and if he bad been condemned in '2O or 30,0001. without any interfets.nce os the part of Government, he might have laia in poison all his life. Mr. ABERCHANd BY would state ia a few words the grounds and object of his vote. He did not wish to consider bow the money had been applied, nor did he charge misapplication of it ou any indis vidnal ; for in that case, the business would have come under the consideration of Parliament, in a very different form from the present. His view was to inquire, as these funds were of a permanent nature, and were likely always to exist, who ought to have the c on .)ul over them. No doubt in any future appro priation of those funds, a great part of them in any case would be applied as heretofore. But the ques tion was, who was to have the controul ?—Surely it ought to he Parliament--and to say that no misap plication had yet taken place, was really no answer ; If there was a capability of misapplication, it was the duty of every Member of Patliamen:, who did not wish to depart from his public duty, to provide against any such probability of abus. The lumi nous and masterly statement which his Honourable and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham) had that night submitted to them, would have astonished every man who heard him, wereit not known, and had he not by his eloquence on former occasions sufficiently satis fied every person, that he was • one of the most pow erful and considerable men in that House. Mr. WM. SMITH wished merely to ask one ques tion. The Account now submitted to the House be gan in 1793, and ended in 1810, and taking the amount at 7,300,0001. the annual sum was 430,0001. a sum-which, it was contended, should be wholly at the disposal of the Crown. Now, what he wished to ask was, merely, if any one had demanded, in 1793, that a sum of 430,0001 should be anomaly at the uncontrouled disposal of the Crown, for 17 years, how would the proposition, at that time, have been received? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER saw no particular weight in the question which had been just put, to make any Member alter his opinion on this subject. There was as wide a distinction be tween the case which he had supposed, of the sum of 430,00-)l. being annually at the uncontrouled discre tion of the Crown, and the present, as could well be between any one ease and another; because it was impossible for any person to look at the paper now before the House with care, without seeing that, the amount of the sum which he had stated was limited by the abatertents and deductions necessary in bring ing it into existence, to less than the half of what 1101 bad stated ; and whenever an application was made of any part of that remainder, it was subject to be canvassed by Parliament. Wiatever may have been the practice of former Administrations, he would for his own partsay, that on the very first moment he heard of any suspicion as to the manner in which any part of the funds had been disposed of, he had shewn a per fect willingness and readiness to produce an account of it, that it might be seen in what manner the ap plication hed been made. The account now before the House was produced in 1810, and the lion. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) had had two yams to bring forward the declamatory attack winch he had that Hight thought proper to make. They bad heard much of the talents and eloquence dis played that night by the Learned and Hole Gentle mae ; but..bitterer .opinion might be entertained of his taleutret tilt elogoettee, sure he was Oat the ap plication of iltem in the present case was not calcu leted to give much satisfaction. But whatever his eloquence might have been, it was in tifs opinion not unanswered, and even in -sundry parts of his argu ment by the ifout. Gentleman who was the seconder of his motion. ' To that Gentleman he wished to ask, ; if, after the argument delivered by him, he would support the present question? He thought that he understood that Hon. Gentleman, and really he could not couceive how with the doctrine he had held, he could increase the list of those admirers of eloquence, who agreed with the arguments, and sup ported the Resolutions of his Honourable and Learn ed Friend- , .(Laugh.] The lion. and Learned Gen tleman (Mr. Brougham) had stated, that it was pos sible to carry on war with this inordinate sum of eight millions, without the assistance of Parliament; for In order to justify the eloquence and violence of the Hon, and Learned Gentleman, it appeared ne cessary for him to state, that the fund amounted to that extent, without taking the smallest account of the ne cessary deductions to which it was subjected. Was he really serious in urgingsuchanargurnent tothe House ?, The question before the House naturally resolved Itself Into the legality of the existence of this fund, And the propriety of its continuance--and with re gard to the legality, he was really astonished that Any lawyer should have thought proper to state in that House, because the Droita of Admiralty were not mentioned in the Statute de Prerogativa Regis, that, therefore, they were illegal. In what respects (lid the Droits of Admiralty differ from other prism? All wive whatever were vested in the Crown, The fact is, that there had not been a statute passed since the reign of Queen Alum, in which the right of the Crown had cot been recognized by Parlittmegt. .. THE STATESMAN Did he mean to say, that it was necessary it should Itiriu tit ' m I V I) " denied the ex istence of a contract. He, therefore, after many have - been mentioned in that statute ?He would re- by his Hon. and Learned Fie nd , which I renuirks we have not room to detail, moved, as an Amendment, 1 fer him to the various Prize Acts, which had, from 'That this Hour having taken into . its ser rta fo i u n s co r t i tile w ra i t t i i r n time to time, been passed. if the Droits of Admi- it; last y 0 and disposed of by the Pe Crown as ratty were not vested in the Crown, to whom then Droits, is deeply impressed with the necessity of inquiring into i did they belong ? In whom were they vested before t g d oi l i l l t l e l l ;e tai su ni c tig suc ce ed in exten t andti Applicatio n o f , sho t he uld follow e.' — it the establishment of the Civil List ? But the Civil up by adding, " That an carr y ru g mble Address he presented to the List Acts did take this property from the Coown. Prince Regent, praying his Royal Highaess that he will be On the grants in the Civil List Act, there were parts vaciouiy pleamd to give directions that an Account he laid fore thethe House of the Droits, and Payments made as Droits, i of the Royal revenue retained by the Crown, and from the sth January 1810, to the 6th January, 181?„dtstinguish- i amen , * others, the Droits of Admiralty ; but the are ing by whom it had been received, and on what account ; and o to also that an Acccount be laid before the House to the same cf- I, gument of the Hon. and Learned Gent. would go feet, before the expiration of the first ten days of every Session leave so much in the situation of a Privy Purse, and to o f Parliament." . T a p e e n d C m H e n A t, N contends n R o take out the present. Now where was the accurac y : n that it of distinguishing these Droits from the oth er reserved ; h wars C a n H F a t l e t n U E p R t t o n p a p ; t a x t n t h a e • mere vote fora paperan g t;nmerited censure upon Ministers. He parts of the revenue, from the revenues of the Duchy ; had no objection to a similar account to that of the ltitli of May, of Lancaster for instance ? It was not e xactl y as the i I w B o l , o iid b h e i i being himself mn uzo f n or t i. he t table, up to the present time, and Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated, that the 1 , Mr. TIERNEY explained. magnitude of these Droits in former times was never ! Mr. BIOUGHAM, in reply, ma d intained p s l t a ren e u n o t uay d , that considerable ; for the Droits which arose out of the i t abrogated,he .r g ii a baw th e: t h e n Crown n ign ought th e , w ite it i h n ;afety to the six years war were really of some size, as six or I Constitution, to retain such ;immense sums at its disposal. seven hundred thousand pounds were in existence at I op l in e io . n P w ° ll S frr B Ti r er e n x e Peem that d t tlamesnenlftraderctidhcellLeofn thetl same the period when the, Civil List Act passed, which ; reign and Parliamen t subsided, both parties not having were afterwards granted to , that fund, in the same I broke Capon it. manner as the proceeds in the Spanish or Dutch B The gh triLva i s ti t t li n e n n s e w lea ere redd it ail r d ed w n e i t r o d n e t r s a t : l i n s !h o z! Mr. VMS alluded to, had been applied to clearing off the The House divided upon Mr. fierney's Anieudincnt. debts on that fund. It was material that a question For the Amendment Si 4 3 of this nature should rest on a proper founda tion ; While strangerswere excluded, and after the division, we en but in the present case, the foundation on which the demand, that Mr. BROUGHAM prepaid that' a Select Com- Honourable and Learned Geutleman voted, hadmit ten wtnitrawin u - ld the a i ligi i i ts nte e , to consider i tif the the bes in t ,n mean ein s e o ntr f been taken from under him by those Gentlemen who and disposal' of the Crown, and refitting them a',. o:able to had adopted his side of the argument. They had . the public service, under the direction of Parliament. disclaimed any intention of stating any instanc e s of The numbers were—Ayes "26 — Noes 94 . Adjourned at Two. abuse, and they merely contended that there was a _...........-- liability to abuse ; but a very material part of the speech of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, which, whatever impression' it might make on the House, • was certainly calculated to make an impres- • sion out of it, was, that the Government of this • country had been guilty of successive acts of abuse — that if any distinguished character was to be reward- ~ the Ministry c.une before Parliament with the ~., claim ; but if any minion who might excite disgust in every person who heard his name , was to be re- I warded, it was done out of 'the Droits of Admi ralty. Would any man suppose that the Honourable and Learned Gentleman would have brought forward .. _ an argument of this sort, when it appeared that he could not point out an item out of all that eight mil- 4 lions which had been bestowed to a favourite of Mi nisters ?—Was this fair to the country ? [Hear !] ~ Was it fair, he would ask, to inflame. the passions , of the country with statements of abuses which he could not partiCularize ?—That he should take no a notice of the large deductions from the amount for :1 the necessary claims upon it?—The case of Sir Home Popham was the only one which he thought proper It to mention. This solitary case which had before I been satisfactorily explained to the House, was, it k seems, all that by ingenuity and industry, he was able I I to bring forward. But what was singular enough, CA was, that the very first item of the Debts of the Ci- N vil List which had been paid from the Droits— the very first item of this gross misapplication, at i which all England must be astonished, was done by n authority of those most unexceptionable, by those I most constitutional politicians, Mr. Fox and Lord s Grenville. [Laugh!] He was not objecting to the a appropriation, nor did he wish to retaliate any charge upon them; but when it so happened that that Ad ministration, of whose principles the Honourable e and Learned Gentleman was known to be a professed tl admirer, was the Administration which set the first 1 example of that misapplication, and that such a r practice had been countenanced by those unexcep- , I tionable characters in his estimation, this was rather a material circumstance against his argument, and r was at least entitled to some consideration from him. r Really, however, to do the Hon. and Learned Gen- 3 tleman justice, he did not believe that when he made the present motion he was aware of that circumstance. [.l /aegh.] Sir FRANCIS BURDETT thought the Right Hon. Gentle man, although he had touched on some of the collateral points of the question, had left out a very material consideration. He had urged the inconsistency of supposing that Government would ge C to war from unjust considerations, merely for the sake of the Droits to the Crown. The astonishing fact, hoe ever, was well t t known, that there have been Ministers of the country who have s ce: wet) pl tneod the enuatry into war front such unjust coati detat foils a great part of die Right Hon. Gentleman's Speech eras directed to the qualities and qualifications of the Right lion. ,Gentleman who brought foreead the motion, and to the conduct it of a former Xl.laitiostration ; but that hail frothing to do with the u argienent. What the liberty of the subject called for, was what they ought to consider. la time present day Parliament was v really so ornamented with gentlemen of the learned profession, t that arguments were now listened to, that would at a period i which was not beyond his experience of the House, have bee° 1 rather coldly received. It was ii, the nature of man to de- 'I sire pots er, and noihing could be more constitutional than to watch with an eye of jealousy over every means of re- i venue which were not under the controul of Parliament. It was a fact, that a King might as Kin; - --- mew. with t' 1 4.:esil List in debt, y_et with _private siderablettmonnt. Nelms elhd 'fit ' a which had formerly been very coolt It were now relinquished by those w: tion.—lle remembered to have hr 1 by a Judge Advocate, that the i D a t mach the private property of t gentleman was entithet to his fortui a see, though the King might have tie c o roner. that he could hold ate pt a than fur the benefit of the publi I money into his own pocket. It as money might he disposed of. It had i to Nlinions and Mistressee ; but nee' persons es Members of Parliament it buy all the sales Ie boroughs, and priiiciii_ _ o meat as would willingly sanction the matt unjust romans. He was sorry that this question had at present been brought for- c ward, for he coosidfged it so strong and so clear, that when he saw the disposition of the House he could not b a t b e a l arme d ; lest t h e y should decide against the public, which was against c the vital interests of the country. He really, whets he saw the liberality of the people of this country, and their wit- I. lingness at all times to support tie dignity andspleado tee of the c Throne, was astonished to find, that while the debts of the Civil List bad been increadug, the splendour of the Throne had heen C diminishing. He mast with sorrow confess, that it ap peared to him that the original splendour of the Crown had - ibid. nished, and that several establishments had been laid while more than three millions had been paid to the Civi l List. ' a Mr. Banker ' s salutary Bill had never been acted on. He main tained that the whole of the Droilsof Admiralty ought is the captors; and that those who bear the hordes of ought to have the benefit of it. The public, as the y the war were at all t h e eraosee , ought to be entitled to the cookout of what II from d ie war , upon the present system, it might happen that !I Civil Lid might be burdened with debt, while a King might a gross half the landed estates in the kin gdom, his en- i as private p ro. perry. 1 HOL considered i Sir JOHN NIC the subje c t in two polatkof v i ew —first, apiegi r : to the internal state of the condly, to its e f relations—he both a which con mmte le Y e t se- leaded no lajery could arise to the comae from *reams cos leaded e of the DiOl4l its tie baads-of the Com o) . y I n 0 . c °l3 tiallaace Matshat mach inconvenimme and he ti might arks— hear- I them *feeds* heads isi w ia _ from with them. tie OWedie6oo had par. TIERNEY, under thereat probability of the 1 deal/meddle grown, Mt ft r i g h t t h at the r ed, .b..., be expressed as se the caeg avaaot of these erille large dthe ouse des the COllif9ll at *eiders ; hut Ile cow., opt maw se a fna concur in the Mails. • hue. Waterford • 1 o tt'adiz ...• 1 1 1 - Malta 1. Guernsey 6., 1 0 Brazda • - • 1 Jamaica.. - : d Arr. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS Rank 9 per Cent. Coin. 6.14/ 9 per Ceat. Red. 63/ 4 per Cents. 79/ 9 5 per Cent. Navy 94/ Long. Ann. 16 7-16 DAT AT OINK O'CLOCK. India Bonds 17s. 18s. pr. Exchequer Bilk X 5 pr. Ditto thallium I Mi. Cousols for Acct. 63f Lottery Tickets THE STATESMAN. LONDON: WEDNESDAY, JANUAIIY 22, 1812. ° Last night we received Corunna Gazettes to the 13th instant, in which we find accounts from Lisbon to the 4th. Government also received Dispatches yesterday from Lord WELLINGTON, dated the 25th 61t.; and from Gibraltar, of the 29th. No part of the dispatches to Government have transpired ; but the Corunna Papers contain extracts from two dis atches from Lord WELLINGTON to the Portuguese Government ; the last of which is dated the 25th December, and mt•etions that the 6th division of "the Army of Portugal marched from Placentia, on the 21st instant, and, crossing the river 'ruler, marched in the direction of Navalmeral." This route leads directly into Castile ; and private accounts state, that this division of the enemy's force had been sent r lo Madrid, to supply the deficiency of troops there , Lwhich had arisen iu consequence of the greater part [ - of that garrison having gone to co-operate in the siege of Valencia. The accounts from Gibraltar mention, that the French are closely besieging Ta. 'We, with 11,000 men. They have brought up eighteen pieces of heavy artillery, with which they were bombarding the place, and were erecting batteries for more, so that it was much feared it would fall into their hands. The garrison con sisted of about eight hundred English, under Colonel GOUGH, and 5000 Spaniards. Nearly 100 pieces of artillery had been sent from Gibraltar, to be mounted on the walls for its defence, and our gun-hoats, and small ships of war were using every exertion in its aid. General 13 tIf.LASTEROS'S head quarters were at SL Roque. Daring the time that his army were obliged, with the inhabitants of St. Roque, to take shelter under the guns of Gibraltar, they had been exposed to the most severe hardships, and, to increase their misery, it rained incessantly a great part of the time, which loosened a part of the rock, that tumbled from the top, and killed and w.ougdeol. 4,:yoasker of these unfortunete . persons. The hme, se-itiett broughl the dispatches from Gibreltat; left Messina on the 16th of November, at whirls .. . time Lord W. BENTINCR had not arrived there.: 'ln the early part of November, his Majesty's ships Thames and Imperiezese, having ou board a detachment of troops (250 of the 62d reginseat, commanded by Major D tItLEY), made an attack on a convoy of the enemy in a small port near Naples, which was moored under protection of of a ten-gun battery, and about MOO troops were in the place. Notwithstanding the disparity of force, our gallant fellows landed, to the number of about 300 men, including marines and seamen, stormed the battery, spiked the guns, and drove out the enemy with great loss. After a severe contest, they took possession of thirty sail of the enemy's vessels, which they safely brought away. The prizes had arrived at Messina before the packet left it. Two ships of war, armed ea flute, had arrived there with troops from England. During the time the packet lay at Palermo, a frigate arrived in the bay, on board of which, it was supposed and hoped, was Lord W. BENTINCIL. The Nobility and principal Inhabitants of that place had made a grand procession to wel come his Lordship. They were, however, much dis %lmitated, to find that Lord BEXTINCK was pot in the frigate, ORDER OF THE DAY. Head-quarters, Marisa, Nov, 10., 1811, a Lleatersat-Geeeral Marmara , feels the greatest iadstaedea if/ins to We staii t e brlllery sad rod coadot if 84sx Kin„ be ttow iiss --- r, --- titb gate pAZ OW dot to II very con: . M IR A Sot , oily inainkalsrd who opposed the , t a: es- heard it gra . e Omits of were of the King N r yTate ortuoe. He really • not right to this prepefty property on any other stk. He had no right M t was impossible to sly how ' had been said it sight belykstal ight it not also be given a sack rot ? CLaug:i]. He mied got nd theo procure such a ~la- to chment of the 62d regiment, consisting of 250 men, under II!' command of Major DARLEY. This detachment, vs it:t fifty of the Royal Marines, commanded by Lieutemint Ptwv, dander{ front his Majesty's ships the imperieuse and the Thames, in of the enemy, who were about 1003 strong, commanded by Ge neral PIGNATELLI CERCHIARA, attacked and carried the poi. tion of the enemy; and being themselves attacked, re. pulsed the enemy in a charge, driving hint f eta his grout: and maintaining their position for two clays.--They took a convoy of nine gun-boats, and tto any other barks. I laden with naval articles, which acre in tie' bay of I'alenu;•t ; two hatteries were likewise taken, with a telegraphic it•trer The conduct of all the Offi:lers and soldiers is considered by Ms. jor Dant.r.v as being glorious and conspicuuns. Lleutric.nt- Geaeral MAITLAVP is very sensible that the intrepidity an d judgment of Major DARLET conducted the troops to this fortu nate success, and he sincerely thanks the Major, and all rein Or ! ficers and soldiers, for their operations, which have bees worthy of the reputation which big army has acquired."—(Casette at,. //mica, Non. 13, 1811.) We have received letters from Vera Cruz to the latter end of November, brought by the Hypo; ion. —By these we learn that al° the exertions of General Veliteas to effect tranquillity are likely to prove unas ailing. The Patriots were mak. ing most rapid progress towards revolutionizing the country. Much Spanish blood, we learn with regret had been spilled. General VesnoAs, by the last accounts, was at Mexict, with the army, which still was more than able to cope with the opponents I of Goverenient in the open field ; but it was nct pitched battles that the Patriots sought to gain posse•,. sion of the country: Their system was similar to 0:e adopted by the Guerillas in Old Sp:tin against thp common enemy; but carried on with more decign. ! success. It is farther stated in the letters, that , Patriots were In possession of nearly all the 5t,0 1:4 passes and places in the country ; and, NViliell is still more important, cf all the valuable mines of Mexico. No convoys with merchsndize cei from Mexico to Vera Cruz, or to other princii•al towns, without being intercepted by them. V :a t. GAS finds it his policy to remain in Mexico with tin chief of his army. If he sends out detached parties, they are mostly destroyed by the Guerillas , agaitht whom the army cannot act in a body with any effect. We have received intelligence from Buenos Ayres and Monte Video, to the 28th of September. By it we know that the blockade of Buenos Ayres had been raised at the intercession of Admiral 1)c Coua. CY ; the negotiations between the Viceroy Er so and the Junta of Buenos Ayres continued, and there were hopes they would terminate amicably.—(Co• runny Diary, Jan. 10.) The Prince Ernest packet from Jamaica in 57 days ; and the Express packet from St. Thomas, in 35 days, have an ived at Falmouth. By the former we have received Jamaica Papers to the 24th of Nov. but they contain nothing new. His Royal 11441 mess Ott Parsee Rzotwr gave as. dience yesterday to the Earl of Monts and Mr. ADAM. The account from Windsor yesterday of the state• of the KING was, that he continued iu the same state, not any better. The House of Commons sat in debate till two o'clock this morning, on a motion made by Mr. BRODGHAM relative to the Droits of the Admiralty, which was at length negatived. A Court of Common Council was held yesterday, at Guildhall, wnich was nnmeroasly attend. A . the Adventure arrived at Gibraltar, on the 19th D.T. she found his Majesty's ship L' ly. ing there under repair. His Majesty's ship Curacoa, 33 guns, had passed for Malta, as had also theQueem Charlotte imcket. In lat. 49. 37. long. 9. SU. the Ad-2enture fell in with about 40 sail of the Cork fleet, bound for the West Indies, under convoy of alut Dauntless ; all well, with a line wind. The men who were taken up at Portsmouth, on suspicion of being concerned in the late murdots l e Gravel-lane, are discharged. The drawing of the State Lottery on TuesdaY, proved, as usual, most particularly fortunate to the purchasers at N 0.2, Cornhill, and IS, Coventry. street, the truly lucky Offices of EYTON, who arm sold and shared nearly all the Capitals, viz. N 0.1,504, Class A, a Prize of £6,600; No. 2,504, Cass Aos £6,000. Also in Stares, No. 1 , 0 V), , a Prize of f5OO, &c..&c.—Thy new small Lottery, of only 8,000 Tickets, with Two Prizes of 1 3 -.10,000, &c. &c. will be all drawn February 18. STATE LOTTERY.—The following Capital Prizes, drawn yesterday, were sold in Shares at Swat and Co.'s Offices, No. 11, Poultry, No. 12, Char iris; Cross, and No. 31, Altigate High-street, viz. No. 5,197, a Prize of Twenty Thousand Pounds, ia Sixteen Sixteenths ; and No. 995, a Prize of Four Thousand Pounds, in Oi:e Quarter, One Eigh!h, and Ten Sixteenth Siares, besides others of inferior ..value. N 0.2,525, Class A, and No. 2,525, Class B l en' titled each to Five Hundred Pounds, were both so'l on Monday last, by HORNSBY and Co.—the owarr, of the same are respectfully informed, that they troy receive their Prize-money immediately. Tickets aud Shares for the Little Lottery are now selling b!. Iloarisair and Co. Na. 26, Cornhill: the Schetne contains Two Prizes of £20,000, and only B, o ° Tickets for Sale. T WENT Y TWOU9AND PouNns.—The Lottery did not finish till past 12 o'clock on Tuesday night. — T. BIM sold the following Capital Prizes at his truly fortunate Offices, 4, Cornhill, and 9, Charing-cros s, where the Share Holders may receive their money on demand, or exchange for Tickets or Shares in the rich but Ansa Lottery of only. 8,000 Tickets, to be all drawn the 18th of next Month,-.-5,497, Class At £'lo,ooo-1,13`25, 2,717, 4,756, 21 000 la Class A-1,825, 2,717, £lOOO each, in Class B -1,020, 5,905,5,025, £5OO each, in Class B, &c. !me • . LONDON: IP:Wied Amia Dobllsbed by D. Lovsm., to INVivalay Onior., 07, Firfet4STiet. I' I 10 •