The Statesman. — London, England, 1813-02-24 00:00:00

THE S'FA ............_ - ---- —-- - - • •- ~ .s . rs „t t sat his Royal Ilighuess Might yet have mete , a factious contest for poster find 'it such was his ` 1 . „,.,, r sr the disunion ..hick uuhappilyexisted in I opinion, why should he witch to revive such angiy t . t . 30, al Family rendered snchon event highly im- !feelings? There was • another .Objection to the mo , ' elide at least. In the ordinary concerns of life, I tlon of the Honourable Baronet. •He rather thought 1 ~ , croilent mail left his family dependent on a sub- l • that it could not be received by the House, unless it e such uncertaiely as human life—surely the eetrne recommended by the Crown.• If any.such ma ' . • ''' • l Inot 0►• tk a less degree of fore-. ;sure was thought necessary or proper, application - I . 11 , ore *ou t in • in a case where the interests and hap. emight be made to the House by the Crown, as had i iteesesery -„ sk 1)1 tt ‘t hole people were at stake. Having i been done in cases of a similar nature by other Sate !l: • • ' •tol the mischiefs which a former reigns. In its present slate it would ' be iinproper to : awes - expt.reent. rruetion of the Royal authority gave rise t o, i t • e n tertain it. Ile Was sorry that he had been led to e e le Roy al I': their they to prevent, as far as possible, the pee- ieay evert ( his much un the subject, as'he was anxious ee., of a recurrence of the same par t y contention, l i• to avoid all discussions respecting it. These were his ~ „I oho Inv of factious motives, by making an Act i reasons fur opposing the motion . • It 'did' .not come l'arliielent to secure the _Constitution in future I I recommended by the Crown, and he saw no nem eery similar violation. ~,,, fer e, would not only meet with the approbation ;the contrary, in his opinion, many very solid reasons (. t hese Gentlemen who professed an adherence to • for avoiding all discussion on the subject. ea , doctrines of Mr. Fox, but also of the Gentle- I *Mi.I3RA ND wta desirous of stating his reasons the ttecessisy for the .in- ; for t- supportie motion the otion of the Hnnourable lit tle° a lin opposed t hem ; ss sett I' , i ce of Patliament being formerly equally, ronet ; but in doing so, he would carefully avoid ,; us eese •s 1 by both. The danger to the Crown, : *lntroduction of all extraneous matter. lie would i ieen ilte mate of a constitutional and legal prevision, refrain•frOm all allusion to those circumstances which use elwiss,e , to every one nt first sight. Ile was per- at present form the subject of general conversation ; ' I l'•at is preerneattleslhich the Common law nor would'heiay any thing as to the party views .1 ed to the (Moan were essent i a ll y necessar y ; to ' which had been displayed, as was alleged, in the wets , The Right lion. • . • * ty o f the-subject. The only object of his . former discussions on this sulject. ois- set et I 11; • was h the sincere desire which be had t o p re- : G e ntl e ma n ha d a ss i g ned as his reasons for o pp osin g 2( : : 12;tt:•" ii,;iiirtiit•;l. the powets of the Crown. Heinle motion: Ist , that it did not come-recommended • ' the house to take sut*,stcps es were neces . " I by, the Crow 11. ed, that there was . nonecessity for " "' lt '" -1-could .do st. 7 ! Tt; and thht the lionse ought to ev . methe artival of a sirs for teat pureose, now w ten they • a s anal c •t•tutiottitlly, and not to wait till the ! ease of necessity before they agitated the queition. i ss a . .. 011 S I OW ,I belt IIeCOSSIIV she old come - open them like an Ott these points he differed entirely from the Right se as,' man . He hoped they , would never again Ilon. Gentleman ; for he could not believe that !. : . re r ecourse, as a sulk:tittile for the Royal autho- iit was essentially necessary to have the recom. te% , to that miserable phantom w hich disgraced . mendation of the Crown before discussing a ques s. t',eir late proceedings, and which, in the words of 1 tion of such vital im p ortance both to the Crown be pet-- i and the community • and lie could see but very - •• iMiim.-uisnittile in tin-tuber, joins, or limb. a ease of necessity, and 'taking measures on • • * e * • e " - the spur of the case, instead of providing for the case " l'lts likeeep. of a kingly croo n lia(10c. ' . upon previous mature deliberation. The Right lion. It %las a satisfaction to him, that in these opinions ' Gentleman had stated, that there was no necessity iv was supported by the authority of his Royal for bringing forward the question at tldielinte. In Ili s litiess himself, slid by all the other branches of his opinion, it was a point of great magnitude, and th e :Sole] Family; for it would be recollected that': commanding necessity. What must be the feelings all the Rot al Dikes protested against the late hints- i . of the person who was to exercise the Royal Att e itiuns on the Royal authority, a measure which , thority ?—What must be the feelings of every one :':;cc red them to a great deal of scurrility and abuse.: who felt an anxiety that the Crown should be sup. T:s breve called the College of Princes—and this, ported in its dignity, in looking at the contests of 1 . ••: i.o other reason, hut because they had expressed r i va l parties tearing the pitwers of the office in a ;e:t Baling for the interests of the Crown. The 1 pieces ?—These matters ought to be provided for by rsso eI e a hich he vs as proposing had been held out as . digested plans, to prevent the recurrence of such ses strong inimical to his Roy al Highness, and' disgraceful scenes, as they had on former occasions a- if it v. as a ball of contention thrown out by : witnessed. Such 'contentions of factions—such re '. Mt to disunite the Royal Family. He was hap- . strictions on the Roy at Authority — such violations sth ‘. etetore, in having the : opinions of the of the Constitutions—in holding out to the people a seie of the Royal Family to support him.-- t h at the powers of the Cron ii were not necessary t•ut the matter was to him so clear and obvious in their full extent for the Government of the couti tsst he did not wise to tire the House by enlarging . try. Something ought to be done, without delay, eether on it, or to have it said that he employed in t o put an e'l ,l to such occurrences. It was now rebus n‘.3n dubii; ai:gumentunt non necessariurn. It , more necreeey than it might be in other times.— ssetned the intention of the Regency Bills to keep' There was only one life between us amid the recur the Royal authority in a state of restriction and sub- -rence of the diiliculty ; and under such eircem jection to the Oligarchy of that lioese ; and the ob. , stances the Bill ought undoubtedly to be received, sect of his motion was to disengage the Royal Au.. and the remedy proposed by the Hon. Baronet, or tiewity from this ueconstitutional dependence. He some other remedy, ought to be adopted. It might s:tould move, therefore, for have to bring in a Bill, perhaps be urged,. that this would lead to discussions to ozovitle ag ainst any interruption in the exercise of i n regar d t o some other unfortunate circumstances the Royal Authority in case of the death otitis Royal , connected with the Royal family; but legislation !Leine s'' the Prince Regent, during the continuance ought not to be impeded merely because such (lig et is Majesty's illness. -; cussious might beintroduced. Ile hoped, however, Lord COCHRA N es' seconded the motion. : the House woubbisave too much delicacy, and too Mr. BATHURST highly approved of the candid • strong a sense of propriety to introduce such discus. leerier in which the Hon. Baronet had submitted his sions without the most unavoidable necessity. [Mar, retion to the House. lie had rested it on a few hear!] — Upon the whole, the Right lion. Gentle. peen propositions, and had very properly kept out ; man had stated no good reason ag ainst the proposed of view every thing not connected with his subject. measure, and the motion should hare his cordial sup- It would not, therefore, he necessary for him to take port. up much of the time of the House, in stating the rea. ; Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON likewise sup. stee why it appeared to him that the suggestions of ported the motion which the present circumstances the Hon. Baronet ought not to be adopted. The rendered not only proper, but necessary. It must Ilou. Baronet had, in his opinion, stated the dillicul- be recollected, that in 1801 circumstances did arise ties to which they had been formerly reduced in much which' made it more titan suspicious, that publicity too strong colours. It appeared to hint, that the dis- nos not given to the real circumstances of his Ma cussion of the subject was altogether unnecessary, jesty's indisposition, and that Ministers did then and that, therefore, it ought to be avoided. It wouitl con t r i ve som e way or other to exercise the Royal be impossible to agitate the question, without raising authority, at a time that his,Majesty's state of health aga t tu all the passions which the question had for. retitle:ad him quite incompetent to the discharge of neels, - called into action. 'fee was not a desirable the functions of royalty. object, and the matter ought to be allowed to lest : Mr. 1V YNN E agreed with an Hon. Gentleman, till tee necessity of the case should call for it.— that if a message should come down front the Crown, li'Ssn that necessity should arise, the House would for the put pose of settling the question of Regency ssitt, upon a review of all the eiicuinstaiiees, es_ i n f uture , i t wou ld b e t h e mos t regular and graceful ercise a sound discretion. No general lilted pro- way for Parliament to proceed upon the subject. At vision had ever 'wen made against .the event of the same time, it must be recollected that Parliament sue!, a malady as that by which his present Maiessy had at different times proceeded to alter the succes was visited ; nor had any one been pointed omit as the sloe of the C*wn, and sometimes without any mos porstat with whom the Loyal authority should rest iii sage . Those great men who passed the celebrated such a case. These were events whic h mast be 'Walt Exclusion Bill, did not wait for a message from the Ariel according to the pastelists. circumstances of each Crown upon the subject. It was most clearly within ra•e, and the two Houses of Parliament were the best the power of Patilantent, to originate the question. j : e!ses of what was proper to be done on such occa• themselves. It was said, that there was no great .inns. The Hon. Bart. appeared to think that the . probability of the contingency arriving. In that case, ` e to the Crown had a sort of right to exercise the it appeseed to him that the subject might bediscussel !;.eel authority, in the event of such•an interruption with ou t a n y i rr itation, and without any .revival of '•I the regal functions as that to which he had ad- those angry fe e li n gs which had been so much chase vested. That, however, was a question which might cited, but drily as a simple •constitutional question. now be considered as at rest. Whatever doubts there I f the contingency should really happen, then there ...ila forme' ly have existed on the subject, none such would be a tenfold acrimony iti the discussion ; ':ere stated during the progress of the last Regency a he r eas the question might be new settled with the t!!ii. The only enession then was, whellier they utmost temperance. s' nuld follow the example of the time of the Mr. PONSONBY then rose, and said, that al. iti•velutioa, by calling a person to the exercise though the question might have come better from the s; the Royal Authority by a mere vote of the lion. Bart. the Ministers of the Crown, yet as the ..else, or have recourse to that more seimmt had thought proper to bring it forward to the consi te:m of proceeding which bad been at length deratioe of the House, he wished, before he gave acepted. As to the restrictions, that was merely a hi s vote in .favour of the motion, to explain, its a question of prudence at the particular time and un- very few words, the reason of his rote. .lie allowed 1 :"" the particular circumstances; anti he did not see th a t such measures as tlyis which was proposed, should that there was any ground for the apprehensions at gene rally proceed from the Government ; but there one time expressed by his Royal High n ess, and the might be eases, where, it' Parliament was moved to husal Dukes. The caee of the demise of the Sose-: the consideration of them, it.wasofelly competent to reSsa Ives totally a different matter. That was an , them to detenniue them e even although Geiternmeet teet %% etch had :wen provided for by law ; but he' might be unwilling to invite their attention to the `ee . tio reason for making a fix e d p r ovision s u bject. As t o the contingency itself, it .did not ap. aS• 1 •;!st the recurrence of such cases as that of the pear to him as improbable as ieseetned to some other, I "ll.ity with which his present Majesty was Gentlemen : for all knew, that although his Majeety• v e•lels it might be safely left to' the discretion ' was afflicted with a severeenental malady which made rf the. two Houses of Parliament to provide . hinsincapable of exercising the frictions of royalty,. 'eeest such cases as they occurred. There was . yet that he .enjoyed as souurl health as any man of . te. necessity, therefore, for entering upon the hie age, and there was a great-probability of his li,. rerls.i.s., ; and without: a strong necessity the . ing for merit years: - If that was the ease, there only : " •. ' " 'eight not to be .agijateds THi he onoura- stood one life between us W 044 the difficulties which ''. L‘lleitse had repreaenfed the Regency proceedings had been experienced on two former occasions. Sup. `FSMAN. pose that event to take place, le thought that it would be' too much for any individual to expect, that his arguments would be able - to induce Par- Bement to act differently from the mode they luld adopted on the two former occasions. He supposed that in such a case, Parliament would act according to the precedett;s then...laid down. The proposition of the • lions Baronet, which was now under their consideration, was not for determining the quan tity of power which was to be given to a future Itagent, nor for declaring who should be the Regent : it was merely a motion for leave to bring in a Bill to pro vide against any. interruption of the Royal authority, in the case of the contingency taking place a hid' was stated. Now , it appears to him, that if this motion was granted, and the Bill brought in, Parlia ment would have it in its power, without departing (torn the principles established in .the former in stances, to make such provisions as would (should the case occur) remove a great deal of the difficulties which were experienced in the former instances, and enable th • Government to put itself into actisity in ii much shorter time. As he thought Butt this geed might arise from allowing the Host. Baronet to bring in his Bill, l;e should vote in favour of the motion. Lord CASTLEREAGH trusted that he should he able to show the House, that there was cut a suffi cient necessity to induce the prudence of the Ilouse to agree to • the motion before them. Ile allowed . that the lion. Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) had brought the subject . forward wish great candour and fairness. "I 1 -The Hon. Baronet, however, who had beiM induced " by his constitutional view of-the sebject to bring forward the present motion, appeared to him to be more anxious to destroy the authority of the parlia- i • mentary proceedings in the two former instances, than to provide for the contingency he had stated. Ile appeared to think it of the greatest importance, to rebut and subvert all the principles which they had laid down upon this subject ; and to get rid of wkaa 'he considered a pernicious precedent. For his part, he had a view of the subject directly opposite. Ile thought that it was a great benefit, and a blessing to the country, that the great constitutional difficulties which attended this subject told been removed, and the point settled on the fullestdiscession,which was after ; wards revised upon the late occasion; and its whicb the greatest legal and constitutional learning had 'seen displayed. He considered that those precedents would be a great protection to the country hereafter, from similar difficulties. He allowed that Parliament i had a right to enter into such considerations without a Message from the Crown ; but it was always for !their prudence to consider, whether they should ex- I pose themselves to a conflict with the Crown upon the point ? in any thing respecting money. all cats , f Diet with the Cro.va was prevented by the necessity . of the Crown propcsina, or previously consenting', 'to the grant. In common legislative measures this ', was not necessary ; but it was obvious that there was." no description of questions more likely to involve the j Ilouse in a conflict with the Crown, than a ques.l tine 'shush touched the Crown su nearly. The con- 1 tingeticy which was mentioned, appeared to him to be so very remote a one, that he thought the I ' Honourable Baronet, upon hiS own princiPtes, should • I rather have proposed a permanent Regency Bill, a ppli- I cable to all cases, than confined himself to this parti levier contingency. It appeared to him, however, that what the Hon. Baronet wanted, was to destroy the discretionary po•wer of Parliament upon the subject • and that he preferred the question being deterinisted on - the hereditary principle, than by the discretion of Parliament. In determining upon which principle the question should be decided, there was certainly a balance of inconveniences. But the reason why it was bettor that it should rest in the discretion of ' Parliament, was, that Parliament felt it its first duty, to take care that the Royal Power should be restored undiminished into the hands to which it le gitimately belonged, as soots as the Sovereign 'was again capable of exercising his Royal Functions : I whereas, upon the hereditary principle, the Royal Power being fully and immediately transferred to the Regent, there was not the same security for the re sumption of it by the Sovereign, whets the temporary cause which suspended his personal exercise of it was I removed. He conceived, that the contingency was . - BERLIN, FEB. 3.—lt is certain that theficssian sufficiently probable to justify Palnvest, in the Army is still beyond the Vistula. 'rite gate of Dea f exercise of its prudence and discretion, in adoptine "' zic, called Oliva, was still open on the f. 4 .2d Jan. !the proposition of the lion. Baronet. Al. WHITBREAD did not conceive that the Grenier's division has marched towards the' Oder.— We see ) pass through this place many French troops. Hots. Baronet could be fairly charged with merely l' he I russian regiments are being completed, and seeking to destroy the authority of Parliamentary precedents when he l‘rought forward the present Bill. ( our Contingent will soon be as strong as it was Previous to the defection of General . D'r otsle. Many , The House would recollect, that the Hon. Baronet ; had not p,rop the Princess Charlotte shotild imme- Iber osed, that its the case of the demise of : horses arrive at Berlin for the French cavalry.— the Reg e nt It appears that a great mortality prevails at lionings. ' diately be declared Regent, but had simply moved l g. for leave to bring in a Bill to provide against the in...! VIENNA, Pea. (3.—The Commandant of Gros Wee terruptton of the Royal authority in such a case. If ; raden has orders from Government to give, within the Bill was brought in, it would be fur the House to i 15 days, a very detailed report respectiog the psi- , make whatever amendments they conceived roper ; ; soner of. whom we have recently spoken, and who • is confided to his care. We believe that politicians but the only object which the Bill professed to have will be lost in conjecture respecting this personage. • its view, was ass object which appeared to him very , desirable. Neither was he disposed to admit, It appears that the pesltions - of the armies are still the same. Prince Schwartzenberg would, it was that the contingetTcy was so very improbable as it had appeared to the Noble Lord. The said, be obliged .to pass some time at Cracow, for , the re-establishment of his health ; shaken by the fa. principal causes which induced hinvto support the motion of the Hon. Baronet arose from the melan- ..liguesl4 war; it is continued to be thought that choly recollection of the past. He could not dismiss : Prince.Holtenzollenewill pros isionally replace him. its ; ' • - • : from his mind the , precedent of 1804, when the King the command. was in a state whichrendered him unfit to be trusted I Mails from France Red Austria are wanting, Which e with the management of his own private affairs ; and Prove that th German road,: are at this moment iv' whets Ministers, of whom the . Noble Lord was one, as bad a condition as those of Austria. . _ , . and the Chancellor another, serried on the Govern-' . Zetticu, Fee. G•.—We learn that Count.Gottoep. men!, and assumed the exercise of the Royal power has remarried at Basle with a lady of that town, of and prerogative, under the mask of Majesty. He the Bourgeoisie class, and sone days after. he left could not dismiss from his mind, the affronts and Basle with his new spouse. It is elver since the di indignities offered to the Prince of Wales its 1810, . vorce took place between Count dattOrp. and the ' when the first, principles of the Constitution were at." Princessof Baden, his first wife. " . .. tacked in his person. In 1811, be stated,. with the , - The four Swiss regitnersto in s thoYrench service are duty and the' candour which became him, the dit " licul- now upon the left banirof..khe Vistela. They are'` . • ties and dangers likely to arise - front such a system under the oeders of dslonel fi' OAt y . The other of pernicious {joky ; but he' failed under the over- Colonels have obtained; temporary !owe of abseace— whelming power of majorities, and his motion was two are wootsded,, oodhife heed of repose•after the negatived.. Whatever objections might have' been ' fatigues of the caasPale. :. . raised in former times. to a ,motion like. that which Dar.sneti PEth'4.-:—Thetreatest activity Preeiiiis.. .now occupied the Rouse, there could oot, in his opi- its the preparations for war. We.are occupied inrais- Ilion; exist any to its adoption at the, present moment. ing our troops to Oft field - They had before them, for their guide, the precedents in of our .is suer' . ' thnt had occurred ; they were no longer agitated hy the inspection of - Attetiaqt-' :feuds and animosities which had 411stracted the judge f4ii , this purpose,lies gone inept, and ,perverte4 the beet intentions. .All the, I.usace that.l4l.. Om -disposal* partihlities and prejudices which had once a rooted other parts. . . influence, were deed ; and the present moonlit was, above all others, that most peculiarly adapted to at tract the consideration of the House, and• to recom mend the Honourable Baronet's motion to their sup.' port Of the temperance which existed, he did not wish for a better and more persuasive proof, thee • the mildness and moderation by which the discussion • of that night was distinguished. He would merely. suppose the case of the death of the Prince Regent. antlhe would then ask the II .ase to look at t'a con sequent state of the country f lie was, at the sums Ilimp s free to say, that the .Princess Charlotte was, Iboth, by her qualifications and her age s cap a bl e of assuming the exercise of that power, which, in I 'else of such an event, she must possess, undimiuislied.. and unrest dead. • I -fir FRAN(.3IS BURDETT rose to reply, -amid* , call for the question. lie was glad to•find, notwith standing the opposition his motion experienced, that. it was met from the other side b) a direct negative, • a mode certainly more manly than by the previce: I question. The Hight lion. Gent. (Mr. fluthuret) seemed desirous to leave' things to themselves; and . whilst he avoided the.consideration of the question is a constitutional way, ho argued that sufficient unto the day was the evil thereof. The Noble Lord, oa the other hand, justified his objections by the neces sity of the case, which called for the interposition and ' discretion of Parliament. If indeed, the Noble Lord thought the Great Seal Sufficient to fill u;s the void caused in the exercise of the Kingly power,—cif • he thought 1117majotities of the two Rouses suffi- • cient to - Ripply the want of the Monarch's rights and prerogative,—then he would readily admit that tfie.No ; ble Lord's objections were just. For his own part, he wished to seethe Crown surrounded and strengthened with all legitimate properties and authority, and it • was that wish, and that wish only, as connected in ; its necessary results Kith the benefit and happiness of the subject, that influenced him to submit to the House the present motion. Ile had tried every ave nue, he bad explored every channel, for the purpose of bringing, this truly important question to a point ; :.but he had to lament, that hitherto all his industry and exertions had proved useless and discouraging. He had been charged, by the "Noble Lord, with pre ferring hereditary power to Parliamentary discretion; but the real fact was, that he preferred, sike at all times prefer; 'hereditary power to contingent and purely accidental power placed in the hands of a few Ministers, supported by such majorities as he had seen in that house. The contingency of human life, which depended upon so great and mixed a variety of events, could no't beset upas an argument for preventing the House to do that which they ,were bound, to do, in order to preside a remedy certain and efficacious for a possible or. a probable evil. Ile was decidedly of. opinion, that the hereditary succession of the Crown i could not be restreieed.and•• Mutilated; for, to 'his mind,. the consequences would dot be dangerous. alone, but would be attended with inevitable ruin. ; If the prerogative of..the Crown were , to be suspend !ed at any one time, what reason could be • urged, ; that it might not be suspended at all times, and tin" der all circumstances'? He Conducted, Kith reqeest ing the Hotreeict vat:Oder •well the `magnitude of the • question•in every constitutional point of view, and to decide, whether: they. would, by negativing It, • debar themselves, the Crown, and the, people, from ' the true provision and remedy against future dangers and evils, which were not at all unlikely to occur. The question being loudly called for, • the H•Aise divided— • For the Motion, 73 j Against it, 238 I Majority, 115 After the Gallery was re-opened, Mr. COOPPR obtained leave to bring a Rill to atnend v jhe Irish . Road Act. . . Mr. W ARTON brought up a Bill, to give cer.„ z tain powers to the Commissioners of .Excise, respect. • ing Salt, which was read a first time. The English and Scotch Local Militia Amendment Bills were read a second time. The Starch Bill was read a thiid time, and passed. Adjourned. FitEIVCII PAPERS. compttmeet, The remount.. 3c , ...ssitely effected under the -Geeend-Thulefettutt, who, . elO Lusacp; it ts,to. Lower ' esable.harses are feat from