The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-06-22 00:00:00

u~ , • 1 , , • 41' I, 1 . , 1 ~ 1 : ' • ! il 1 . - .C! 4 , ' f 1 is4!l LICPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Just /O. The Royal Assent was notified by Commission to the Irish Loan Bill, the Irish Customs Bill, the ' 4 eirts Local Militia Bill, the Packhurst, Wooliner, and Holt Forest Bills, the Edinburgh Police Bill, some local ..nd private Bill, in all i ;. The Commissioners were the Lord Ciiancellor, the Duke of Montrose, and Lord Walsinghatu.—Adjuerced till Monday (this day). HOUSE OF COMMON:. - - The SPEAKER, no his ret tiro from the Peers. read to the Hew a list of he Bills that had received the Royal Assent, the titles of which are given in our Report of the Proceedings of the lloisse of Lords. He likewise informed the House, that he had received the following letter from the Larl of .Wellington, dated Fuente Guinaldo, May 25. " SIR.--1 haves communicated to the General Officers. Officers, and 'troop. under ms crenmatul, the unanimous resolution of the !loose of Commons. of the '2.7,11 of April, conveying the up prohatlon of the House of thin conduct in the siege and capture ot tiadojos. I beg to assort' the House of the hig:i sense I enter tain of its al:pro:nation, as dis:dayed by the ropeated marks of favour. with which it has receiied my conduct and that of the sway under on command. I likewise return to yon. Sir, my tlionlss fur the loan:tee in which you have communicated t h is -vote, and remain, &e. • WELLINGTON, Goionel PALMER brought in Palmer's Compensation Bill, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second thee on Monday. Customs Herniation Bill, the Scotch Excise Bill, the Bermuda Trade Biil. the Militia Sitbalterns' Bill, and the alificia Adjetants' Bill, severally went through a Committee.— Tile Ileports we re ordered to be received nn Monday. Lease was 4c to Mr. W. POLE to continue the Acts of 44 Geo. I It. chap. 106, and 51 (leo. 111. chop. RI. Sir t:LOItt.E HILL brought op the Report of the Committee on Irish ((tamp*, when Sir J. NEW PORT took an opportunity of deprecating the increase of the duty on advertisements in Ireland. Mr. \V. POL e%;:ressed a desire to favour the Press as much as possible. Ills wish was to have the duty collected on the same footing as in litigletal, but without some alteration an annual loss of :idlkll. would be incurred. A Lill a irs todered to be brought in pursuant 'to the Resolu tions of the Committee. Sir „I. NEW PORT moved for several returns from the Trea sury Board of Ireland, in Nil; in order to prove that the state ment he had trade on a former night, regarding the ccerease of the Duty On leather, were correct. Mr. W. POLE had no objection to the proclnctlon of docu ments a :licit would only prove the business ,•f the Board of Trea sury was transacted with the utmost regularity. Sir J. N ENV PORT said, that they would prove that in the teeth of the Act of Parliament. only one lead of the Treasury attended during three-fourths of the year. The Irish Inland Lacise Bill, the West India Licences Bill, the Irish Bakers' Bill, the Neu fount - Band Spirits' Bill, and the Debtors' Relief Hill. were all read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. Mr. WI! IRTON gas(' woke, that he would on Monday mote for lease to bring in a Bill for better Regulating the Vol lee' ion of the Duty Ulm .11alt. Ile also brought in the)Loan Bill and the Lottery Bill, which ware read a first dine, and ordered to he .e.id a second time on slotalay.—Adjourued till Monday (this de ). REPORT'. --au-- We scarcely recollect a more severe disappoint ment than the public suffered on Friday last, by the exclusion of strangers from a certain Assembly dur ing the discussion of a subject, upon which the great est expectation and interest had been excited. It was a questioll, in effect, of personal justice to indivi &ink, and the laws of all countries, particularly of England, unite in declaring that justice cannot be done janu:s clausis.—We have thought it our duty to endeavour to collect, in the best manner We could, the accounts and reports circulated in the world, and we Hatter ourselves that we may offer the following to our Readers, as a tolerably correct summary of the Conversation : The Duke of ATHOL asked, if the correspon &nee and documents which had been published, were authentic, and the several points cursectly stated ? • Lord Monti answered, that they were faithful I transcripts of the orginal papers, and correct, ex- 1 apt as to a few typographical errors. Ile stated, that he gave the fullest credit to Lords Grey and Grenville, for the purity of the sentiment that guided them in all their transactions ; and reqi:ired only the same admission for himself. Ile had acted solely upon public considerations, as they had done. lie thought his case fully made out by the papers ; but I had heard that a construction, different from his, had been put on,tbe last minute; and it' his Noble Friends maintained that, he was glad to be able to meet it there. He was ready to give an answer to any question, and to enter into a full explanation. Lord Gruff came there prepared to give a full ex planation of his conduct, and of all the circum stances connected with it, and complained that he and his.friends were deprived of that justice which they had right to expect, In losing, by the exclu sion of strangers, the opportunity of laying before the public every part of the laid transactions, as far as they were concerned in them. That he bad no share iu the publication alluded to, except in re questing, that if any thing was published nothing should be omitted. Ile believed the Papers to be ac curate, unless, indeed, as to oneer two typographi cal errors, which rendered the sense of some of his own letters obscure. With respect to thi? last minute of conversation, he was ready to state the construction that he had put upon it, though at variance with one that had been industriously given to the public. It bad been amid, that he and Lord Grenville had acted upon • sealed design of humiliating the Prince Regent, and of irritating his feelings. He disclaimed this as a most foal calumny, and utterly unfounded In truth. It had been said that the question, with respect to the Household, was proposed to be forced upon the Prince as a previous and preliminary siOulation..— This he.utterly denied, and said that it was never intended to propose the subject to the Prince, until the change of the great officipe of the household should be submitted to his Royal Highness for his approbation, as a part of the general arrangement of the new Administration. The subject was stated as a preliminary question to Lord Moira, and was ne cessary, because it had been distinctly announced to them (Lords Grey and Grenville) from authority, that it was resolved to maintain these officers in their station. He would ask, whether under those cir cumstances, it would have been right to risk more delay and embarrassment to the Wilk affairs, or if he was not bound to put such a previous question to his Noble Friend? He consiaered theit removal to be necessary, and he was confirmed by the opinion of those whom he had consulted, and of others who pressed their opinion upon him... He had never heard of the intendeil resignation of the•llousehold from any thing in the shape of authority, and the very loose rumour he (lid hear was immediately contra dicted. Nothing could be farther from their wishes or intentions, than to do any . thing that could be offensive to the Prince. They required °sly the ehapges that THE STATECNIAN. had been usual upon a general change of the Go. eennient. If they could have believed the rearms tion to he about to take place, they would have ;been perfectly - satisfied, and would have accepted the ar ra ngemen t in the manlier moat agreeable to•the Prince, and to the feelings of the individuals concerned in it. Lord Moina declared, that no insinuation of the kind alluded to, had ever slipped from him. He never suspectea that there was in their minds any thing so hilarious to the country, as a feeling of disrespect to the Prince. He differed, however, in the construc tion of the minute, and referred to the words of his answer, that " it would be impossible for him. ( Lord ifoira), however, to concur in making the ",exercise of this power positive and indispensible ;" and argued that the previous conversation must have rendered those words necessary. His objection was to the establishment of a previous and indis 'tensible condition, which might tie up his hands, and those of any other colleagues he might ac quire, from discussing that question afterwards. — It was secured by the full powers lie had, that the removal of those officers might take place if the pub lic servile should be thought to require it. He had always objected to removals in the Household, and could refer to a letter of his own, published 15 years ago, as a proof that such was then his 'opinion*. He put the argument to their feelings, and gave it as his opinion that the removal of those officers would have been an unnecessary humiliatiou of the Prince, and would set the seal of office to accredit every ribald tale of scandal that had been circulated in this town. The report of the intended resignations by certain Lords of the Household had been regarded by him as an impatient ebullition of heat, which did not bind men to act upon it. He considered it as a I menace to deter him from bringing forward into Administration Lords Grey and Grenville. if he had known it more authentically, ho would have kept it back from them out of pure respect, from a persuasion that they would scorn'to give up the as sertion of a principle, and avail therns.lves of the resignation as a subterfage to smooth their way to power. Lord ERSKINE regretted that he had not foreseen the possibility of a difference in the construction pf the minute, or he would have taken care that hit Noble Fricads should have clearly understood eack other. He did not, however, think their difference very considerable. Lord Grey and Lord Grenville must have adverted to all the circumstances of lag year and of the present, and of the manner in which the proposal came to them, and it was incumbest upon them to see that they had ail the securities that had been usual upon changes or Administration, to enable them to carry on the functious of government with effect. The removal of the Household was to be part of the new arrangement, and could not be pur posed 1, to take place till the new Ministry was formed. He uuderstood that the first act of the new Adminis tration must necessarily be the removal of those offi cers. The question was proposed from excess of candour, because it was known that Lord Moira had strong objections to it. Lord Moira had the power to make or to refuse to make the Administra tion, and from the words of his answer, that 46 he CI could not CONCUR in making the exercise qf this cc power positive end indispensible in tile formation " of the Administration," he agreed that he thought Lord Moira must have understood, not that the re moval was to be proposed as a previous stipulation to the Prince, but as a point stated to his Lordship as to be a fundamental and necessary part of the new, arrangement when it should be formed. The Noble Earl (Lord Moira) objected to it upon two grounds, that it would give countenance to the calumnies which had been circulated with respect to the Prince, and also that it would encourage the slanders against those whom his Royal Highness was particularly bouud to protect. That with the knowledge, that such removals were to be the first act of the Admi..l nistration, he could not concur in forming it, and he I therefore put an eilirto the conversation. Lord 'Moms asked Lord Erskine, if he had not himself inserted the s ord " indispensible" to mark the sense more strongly ? Lord Easel NE, in reply, contended, that the word indisp:nsible" added nothing to the meaning con veyed by the word "positive." Lord IlEtnroaT rose to confirm what had been stated in auother place by his Noble Friend Lord Yarmouth, that in a conversation long prior to the interruption of the negociations. the GreA Officers of the Household had declared their determination to resign, if Lords Grey and Grenville came into the Administration; and that thopgli he held an office much inferior in consideration, yet dear to him as it placed him near the person of the Prince, whom he loved and revered, he resolved to resign also. _ _ _ Earl SPENCER said that heentertained the same opi nion with his Noble Friends, that it was a vital and constitutional principle in the formation of an Ad -1 ministration, that It should have the full, fair, and evident confidence of the Crown. That if any ~b4 h une attached to them either air haw ing proposed this question prematurely, or having persisted in it too I pertinaciously, he mast take a share of that blame to himself. lie not only concurred in their views, but had strongly advised the measure. For in a con. versation with . Lord Moira, some days 'before his Noble Friends met uim, he had entered into a full dis cussion of the question, and heard all his arguments, and knew the extent and strength of the objections Lord Moira felt to the removal of the Household, which lie himsel f had considered as absolutelynecessary. He thought it his duty to apprise his Noble Friends of Lord . Moira's feelings and objections, and that with the knowledge that his opinions were directly contrary to theirs, it was indispusibly necessary that they should bring forward that q ue sti on i n th e first instance. That the wish to urge that point in a manner at all offensive to the Prince, had• not been attributed tOliim by any body from whom the impu tation was'worthy of notice. That to have made the usual changes in the great Offices of the Household, * Inn letter written by Furl Moira to Colon M'Mahoo, dated June 25 1791, when he had been applied t o by some no party men in the Hoax of Commons to try to foru an Adminis tration, to the ex:lotion of Mr. Fox and Mr. Pitt, the Noble lord wrote as follows : Of my friends I demanded this con " dition, that no removal should he made in the Household, " Post-Office, Mint; or any' other department not immediate'y " connected with ininilterial functions!" The opinion of the Noble. Earl, then Tare, on the subject of the Household, was known, n pod reason for giving him the full po wers that MSC refused to tie Marquis Wellesley. 1,0 from tending to confirm any rumour injurious to The Prince, would, in his opinion, have had a di rectly contrary effect—and that, in his opinion, to have retained them contrary to the usual and esta blished practice, was most likely to create such an impresiiion on the public mind. Lord GRENVILLE stated, that they distinctly ex pressed their opinion, that in the consideration of I the arrangements of the Government, the changes to , ' be made in the Household should be submitted to !the Prince Regent, not as a preliminary point, but as a part of those arrangements subject to his Royal Iligliness's approbation. The general principle for ; which they had contended, of being at liberty to con ; eider any points which they judged useful for the Prince's service, had been admitted in the outset of the I conversation. They knew that they differed from Lord i Moira upon few points, but upon the question of the ! changes in the Household, they knew his opinion to be different from theirs, and candour required that they should state that question, and bring it forward. No man could believe he could have a wish to de ' grade the Prince ; he appealed to the whole of his pub lic life as a proof of his uniform desire to uphold the honour of the Sovereign, which he considered as most important and essential to the interest of the coun try. He indignantly disclaimed the imputation that had been thrown out against them. It now appeared that the great Officers of the Household had enter tained an opinion, that upon a total change of system it became them not to hold their situations ' • and he could not now doubt that they had intended to re sign. Ile must approve and praise the propriety of that resolution, but must observe that they thereby distinctly recognized the principle stated in this Paper, " that the connection of the great Officers of " the Court with the political Administration should • " be clearly established in its first arrangement." He must claim the benefit of the fact, that he was utterly ignorant of suck resolution. He had iujleed heard many and contradictory rumours, upon which it would have been impossible to act. Notwithstanding what Lord Moira had said upon that subject, he must consider it as most unfortu nate, T that intention to resigtt'svas entertained, that the communication of it was withheld from those who, if they had possessed that knowledge, would have been reliesed from the difficulty, the existence of which precluded all further progress in the con- I versatien. Ile must contend, that The propriety of ; their conduct could not be argued or decided upon there ; that every public man must be at liberty to I judge for himself, when the acceptance of office is proposed to him, whether there may exist any cir cumstances which, in his opinion, may prevent him ! from renderin ,, his services useful to the Prince and to the country, and that he is not to .be called into question for acting upon such feelings or opinion. The CumsclLLon concluded the conversation, by deprecating discussions of that nature, as tending to embarrass the Prince in the fortnatiomof All future Administrations, and conjured the House to put an end to them for the present by adjourning. Mails. Due, Dublin 2 1 1 1 1 1 Arr. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS Bank 3 per Cent. Conk 3 per Cent: Red. 561 a 4 per Cents. 'Nth 5 per Cent. Navy Lang. Ann. 1415.16 15 DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. India Bonds 4 5 di?. Exchenner Bills 30. 3 2 d Ditto 36d. 34 pr. Ornnium 26 2 liJp Consols for -Acct. 57i1 Lottery Tickets TIIE STATESMAN. LONDON: MONDAY, JUNE 22, 1812. The Princess Charlotte packet, with Mails from Malta, &c. only seven days from Gibraltar, arrived at Falmouth on Saturday, by which we have received Gibraltot Chronicles to the 31st ult.:— CARR ALTAR, MAY 30., On Thursday General BALLASTEROS put himself in motion, and was yesterday in Übrique.—(Gibral tar Chronicle, May 30.) MESSINA, Also 1. The Royal Family are to go to Malta, leaving - . only one of, the young children of the HEREDITARY PRINCE, and a Regency is to be formed for the Go. -vernmeut of the islaud.—(Some Paper.) PALERMO, MAT 5. Admiral FREEMANTLE yesterday came in upon his return from Tunis. Ile has prevailed upon the Tu nisian Government to conclude a treaty with the Si cilian for all the time that we shall train in this island as friends, and brought back 300 Sicilian slaves, who have been ransomed, and some of whom had been 20 years in Barbary. ('ARTHAGENA, MAY 21. Capt. ADAM, of the Iferincible, with the Terma ganl sloop of war, and 300 Spanish soldiers, pro ceeded from hence on the 10th inst. for Almeira, at the same time that Georral FREYRE made a movement upon Baza. The French evacuated Almeira, and the Spaniards landed without dpposition. ,They have destroyed the fortifications, and Capt: ADAM is re turning here with a quantity of sulphur, lead, and some grain, which he found in the place. That port can no longer be a hiding place for French privateers. General FREYRE has been obliged to fall back 'to' Baza on account of a scarcity of provisions for his troops. General ROCIIE has bad a most gallant af fair with '2OOO French troops under General IlAusex, near Alicant. They came to levy contributions.— ' Generalltocur went out to meet them, killed add wounded 210, and brought in .53 prisoners, among whom are seven Officers. This place is in a 'perfect. state of security through the exertions of that most active °dicer ) General Rosi.—,{Saint Pape.) We have extracted the following from the Dublin Papers which arrived thi s morning AGGREGATE CATHOLIC NILETING, LITTLE THEATRE FISHAMELC SfRILET, THURiDAY, JUNE 18 . Ai heretofore, the Aggregate Catholic Moctinc. was numerously attended, and the thousands of Ge n ., tlemen, possessing landed and commercial property, who rallied once more to save their Country in this hour of danger and dismay, may be truly said to represent the wisdom and the strength of five milling s of the People. Lord F I NG ALL h av i ng t a k en t h e Chair, his Lord. ship made some prefatory observations upon the pur. poses of the Meeting, after which The Honourable Mr. BARNW ALL mo►ed, that the Delegates who were appointed to present the Ad. dress from the Catholics of Ireland, should make a. Report of their proceedings, which being unanimously agreed to, Mr. HusssY, on behalf of the Delegation, ad. I I dressed the Meeting to the following effect discharge of the Commission with which we were intrusted, we proceeded to London, inoly order Highness r first il pu to :ghn:, carry hrse recommend into effect the obje c t o f our mission. ibis R, a ou ) pose was to take suc h measures as were neces sar y troßpoiresesenßt REGENT, praying d p d ra re y ss ing to would be pleased tothaths R o yal to Parliament the state of oar claims ; and a letter having e R ,oh b yfi Addressos msLLaonr Lordship, State f o r hoai F pap t r, r4 eo ;ac t heecAncs LtoLmtHo? accompanied aomn his M er . edßl r ab . nyyßda: Department, D ap l , e e di i the na etstsoas requestingnt Secretary been if::wgohrmaidltthteahatnnoet know when it would suit the leisure of his Royal Highness to receive it ; and his Lordship further requested to be admitted to an audience of his Royal Highness, as we were desirous of such an opportunity to represent the true state of onr coun try to his Royal Highness ; and were anxious to re move the hostile ideas towards ourselves and our country, which, no doubt, the most pernicious se cret influence had been exerted, to instil into the mind of his Royal aighness. And although we did not conceive that his Royal Highness would be advised to refuse to listen to our just complaints, yet our hum ble application was rejected; and Mr. RYDER in his reply stated, that the Address would be received by the REGENT, in the usual manner, at the Levee, and said nothing of our request to be admitted to an audi ence. The Address was accordingly presented, and although we were aware that it was not usual to re- Aura any answer to an Address presented in that ' manner, yet Lord FINGALL wrote a note to Mr. RYTOER, requesting to be informed if his Royal High. tuns had been pleased to make any commuuication upon the subject; in answer to which Mr. RYDER stated, that he had net received any commands from his Royal, Highuess relative to it. We therefore having pre sented' the Address, knew nothing farther about it.— , A Petition to Parliament was the next object of our ' mission ; to frustrate it, every effort was made by the then, or I should have said, by the present Mi. nisters. The cry of bigotry was again attempted to Ibe raised. Placards, in similar terms to what we read in the Castle Press, were posted throughout the city—and ' No Popery' was again brought forward : I but it was brought forward in vain.—lt was an. swered by the Corporation of the City of London; lit was answered by your fellow-subjects, the Pro testants of England, who are anxious for your suc cess; and, therefore, if you have failed, entertain no prejudice of the people of Euglaud, it was not they, it was to the pernicious counsels of secret in , fluence which stands in the way of your Emancipa tion, and which is now at work, to defeat your : hopes for eter, unifier the treacherous mask of " do- ' ing something for you." Mr. HUSSEY then pro ceeded, at great length, to detail the circumstances attending the discussions in Parliament. He stated the calumnies with which it was pursued in its pro gress, and, as an instance, stated, that when the account of the assassination of Mr. PERCEVAG reached the House of Peers, a Noble Lord (an Irish. man) was heard to say, 44 this comes of bringing forward the Catholic Question," as if BELLisoatst had committed thihorrid crime upon our account. Mr..Husser commented with much force upon the speech of - llr W. Scorr, and other Members who had spoken against the Catholic Claims. He spoke in the strongest terms how highly the Catl.olics aro indebted to Lord DONOUGIIMORE, and Mr. PON' SONEY, by whose advice the conduct of the El.ge gates were in a great degree regulated ; and con cluded by calling the attention of the Meeting to the exalted conduct of Lords GREY and GRENVILLE upon a recent occasion. Mr. FINN proposed the Thanks of the Catholics of Ireland to the Noblemen and Gentlemen who had acted as their Delegates in London, which was car ried unanimously. Mr. O'GoitmaN then entered 41711 a report of the proceedings of the Catholic Board since the 11th of My last, and concluded by saying, that with burst big hearts the Catholics must at present withdraw their confidence from Lord MOIRA. -Lord KILLEEN then addressed the Meeting, and, after some pointed remarks, which excited the most enthusiastic applause, he begged leave' to read the following Resolutions, which, he said, had,obtained the concurrence of the late Board. He observed, that the language was strong, but not violent ; but he thought it right to. mentiorr, that the day was at length arrived ; when it would be criminal not to I 1