The Statesman. — London, England, 1822-03-14 00:00:00

'B2, 'fires .own. at r. 'rest sinecures of State might be is retired officers—but now, whew ensions for them, can we confines ar the same purpose. The Right Peel) bad shown a treat deal of on the minor part of the question, over its more important features; me of the house in commenting on 1, but he avoided the important 'tended by him that we should not had been so long established; but I that be to that house, that had ing at the time of the Plantagenets. der them as efficient, merely bw for so lone a time. His next ate year 1792 was held up as the mw eat now, and these offices were them he Tellers of the Exchequer not ? We are told that since 1792 tho her has increased five times; if it dmasters-General were not suffici at ; and if they were, they must is. Such points were the mere of the fair and open mode of meet se of the Hon. Member's other ar rest duty devolved on the Postmes nting persons to fin the various si n that it would be dangerous to Ice such a power committed to the onld inform the Louse that a He m to which much credit was at angler of patronage had actually • Treasury were said now to possess eh was held to be unconstitutional, rm was attempted to be raised. He ris Noble Friend did not seek to di ce or emoluments of the Postmas- Id have no objee4ion that one person fith nce of the House and of d Live the appointment, with and a full remuneration.— lie dnties of the office Le discharged moral? Were they so complicated, la varied importance, that the at would nut be sufficient? He would men who have declared that they chment and economy—wonli they ammo, that no useless office could de.truyiu; the neoessary influence manner in which his Hon. Friend I the subject of the influence of the r constitutional He agreed with 'considered as a primary principle, ly an auxiliary one. Had not the balm ? The nomination to all office iU millions of revenue—the control -the patronace of the Bishops and —the pernnaFe of India and the ill these sufficient? And did they itence greater than ever lad been 'ant ry, or by any other tiovernmetit ey attempted to deprive the Crown e of the thirty-five Colonies, they th attempts to destroy the influence it such motives be imputed to them ; ind well defined ; they never could ittence arising from the appointment . If they were bound to use an d, even so far as the dismissal of case, he would say, deserved the at -it was a cruel necessity to dismiss r time, on the naked ground of Ida n this office of demonstrable ineffi , how could they refute all the eaten). lowered on the English Constitution lernment that possessed moreinflu ern held by any other, was now at ▪ by that which was here celled in 'l' corruption. The house could lis that the more intelligent and in• the less likely it was to afford Ile would be the last man to in- Intent, or to widen the breach be nd the people. He would be sorry of the country was likely to lead to r felt that it had • claim on the con se, and lie trusted that its delibera u satisfaction. Before he would sit I 'he house, that • pledge was I iinst the redaction, and not by •gretted that the Hon. Member for ,en in his plate, be would call on 4' be had himself avowed, to vote other useless offices. Referring to ords of Admiralty—be was not pre ; hut he did not think it a case of :th the present, or one involving so r. Ile voted for this reduction on office was totally and absolutely use appeal to the Committee of 1617 — so impressive as the Resolutions of oils in 1812 soil 1813. If they did :e as useless and unnecessary they ton on the recommendations of the ls. d Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH mutually he had supported the Bill for di nee of the Crown, because a power rvices was substituted. Much oh tousle thrown upon sinecures, cad isable to provide fur public services le admitted the merits of the Secre e; hut he could not agree to entrust c department to his suk menage-I political connection was necessary tad the higher public oMcers. He nagement of the country. There was no one source of the Revenue collected by a single individual : indeed the admitting of such a mode of collection was never considered a wise principle in Revenue matters. The present was undoubtedly a bold experiment upon a Revenue of two millions. It was a proposed saving of 2,5001. a year; hut he really believed the reduction, if , carried, would affect the Revenue. The merits of Mr. Freeling he fully admitted; but a consideration of in dividual merits ought not to affect the general ques tion, combining the two branches of the question, he thought the best fiscal arrangements would be tissue led by not disturbing the office, and by negativing the motion. He called upon the house, in the manly tone of the Hon. Member for Yorkshire, to follow the exam ple of that Hon. Member, and not truckle to a spirit which prevailed abroad, and which, if encreased, would be the means of betraying the people.—((sheers.) Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought every deference ought to be shewn to public opinion in the abolition of useless offices; and that now in discussion he considered as admitted useless. He could not agree with the Noble Marquess, that the wheel of Government could not go on without two Postmasters-General. He thought the country might continue to do without those Aflame'. The Noble Marquess wanted the house toll!! np the gap, and withstand the people; but he (Sir John) called upon the house to stand with the people, and WON their affections by reducing the public expenditure. Sir I. COFFIN supported the motion, and said that, conducted as the office had hitherto been, it ought cer tainly to be abolished. Lord NORMANI3Y briefly replied. After the sacri fice of personal income which the King had made, he thought it very hard that the Crown should he made to defend a place of mere Ministerial mastagemept. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and a divi sion having taken place, the 'umbers were—For the Motion, Is9—Against it, 184—Majority in favour of Ministers, 23. ORDNANCE ESIINA TOE . We were excluded for some time, mod op one re-admis 'Liu to the 6411ery, we found Mr. ftWillu on his legs, conswillnipimiallarkel it iI. the Ordnance Kitimat..., the details *bleb. itil%n tended, were not satisfactorily explained. He said that the House ought to have accounts of the civil establish meats, Were it voted one penny. The next account which the House ought to have was the expenses of all the houses belonging to the Ordnance Department.— Many of them were not occupied by persons belonging to the Ordinate., but were let oat to t idividuals, and were maintained at a very large expense, and many were not required by the department. He said he should .wove for certain returns : he named several sums that bad been voted last year, and moved for an account of the manner in which they had been applied. The first sum was that of AWOL voted for the Depots at Guern sey and Jersey. Mr. R. WARD entered into an explanation of the manner in which the SUMS had been disposed of; but to give the information which the Hon. Gentleman moved for, would be attended with very great expense, as extra labour must be required in nicking them out. With regard to the houses, no person in the department was allowed to let out one of them. Mr. IVILMOT justified the establishment of Deme rara, where the expenses were necessary for the mainte nance of the place as a military defence. The first motion was agreed to with an amendment moved by Mr. WARD—"aa far as the same could be made out." Mr. HUME next moved for accounts of the manner in which the following sums were disposed of; 15,0011/. for beds and bedsteads ; 40,0001. for stores ; 115,000/. foe contingencies ; also the several sums under the head of repairs; the number of persons to whom the 14,0001. had been paid, under the head of clerks of works; ac count of the house rent paid for all houses belonging to the Ordnance—these several motions were agreed to. Mr. HUME again referred to Demerara, and contend. ed that that Colony should protect itself, and that Brest Britiain ought not to contribute one shilling towards protecting its sulaar plantation■. He then moved for a Copy of the Estimates of the Works to be done in DEM rars, for which 10,000/. had beea voted. Mr. GOULBURN said that the money had been ex pended in preventing the sea from was;iing away the town of Kingston, in Demerara. Mr. BENNET contended that the colonies ought to , protect themselves, and he was sure they could do so, if they were properly governed. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. BROUDEN brought up the Report of the Mutiny Bill. Mr. HILISIE here referred to a statement made by a Noble Lord, that the Articles of War were a part of the law of the land ; he wished to ask the Noble Lord, whether these articles were ever considered as such in Courts of Justice. Lord PALM ER.STON was me that if any man com plained to a Court of Law of • punishment, to which he was sentenced according to the Articles of War, that the Court would refuse the application, on the ground that the sentence had been passed according to the Ar ticles of War. Mr. HUME alluded to the case of a soldier, who had been Bestowed to a punishment for not subscribing to a school ; and on application to a Court of justice, the Court held that the sentence was illegal. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said it was not com petent to a Court Martial to indict a punishment for not subscribing to a school, because the sentence was con trary to the Anil:446f War. The Rove' was then agreed to, and ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. MR. COBBETT AND THE STATESMAN. Mr. Coasarr has made as arrangement with Tat ATEEMA NXing Newspaper, instead qf his bringing met The Beetling Pest. or The Gridiron. Ilia Commentary en the Parliamentary Debates appears Dally.—Orders receired for Tat tirerssm ex by aU News Venders. Statesman gfee, Strand. N. B. Tat Com:roma Sunday Paper is connected with the TEE STATESMAN. Price 7d. LONDON: TIIVIISDAT LVINING, N•NCN 14, 1822. STOCK KICHANGS, TWELVE O'CLOCK. The business doing this mornio4 has not been of groat consequence. Consols opened at 791 to f for the Account, and for Mosey 781 to 79 ; since which they are .ended, and are now done at 794 for the Ac count, and for Money 79i, with a good Market.--Five pet Cent.. are 1421. 7011MION !MIDS. s-e- There is some bustle in the n Market, in con. sequence of to-morrow being tb y for the delivery of the New Spanish Loan. " A ll eign umbiliet ap pear to be on the rise. New and Old Spanish.... . - Prussian . ........ 9O Danish • . NC Neapolitan 704 to 4 French. -AS b.ic. Ex-dividend PROCEEDINGS IN PARLIAMENT. Two subjects, both very interesting, engaged the House of Commons last night; namely, the craelths of fichester Jail, and the anti off of one of the Postmasters• General. As to the first, Mr. B':XToN said, that he bad no hesitation in saying, that Mr. HUNT ought not to pass the remainder of his time in that prison; but, this Mr. BUXTON Of wb m we know nothing) took care to say, that be* hi not say what he said because he approved o principles of Mr. HUNT; about which Mr cares, doubtless, as much as he cares wh th it be a he-•pider or a she. spider, that works the webs in his dungeon.—Sir THOMAS LETHBRIDOE and Mr. DICKENSON spoke, the former very fairly, and the latter in a softened tone, 1 but still attempting to defend the Magistrates, whom, however, Mr. HUNT accuses.—Mr. PEEL said little to the purpose; but endeavoured to defend the .Magis trates, .I.nd repeated the old worn-out, exploded, and ridiculous reason for giving them support; namely, that they rendered their services gratuitously! 1 ,is notion has been long laughed at by every man of common sense; by all but mere gulls. It would be strange Mesa to see men so eager to get into their hands the power of doing good for nothing ; without any sort of remuneration ; to see parsons, quitting their flocks, leaving those " cures of souls", which they have so solemnly vowed to bloil to attend to with all diligence, " in season and out of season", in order to wield the sword of justice; and, all this for no thing; for no gain at all, direct or indirect ! Parson Hay, fer Instance, of Manchester and of 16th of August-memory, rendered his services gratis ; oh quite gratuitously; and mast, therefuie, according to Mr. PEEL, be supported ! The great living of Itochedale, which Parson Hay got just after the Man chester affair was, doubtless, not given him for services rendered at Manchester, because it was given him by the Archbishop of Canterbury ; hut, still, it is clear that his being &Justice of the Peace had done him no Aetna. This was the man who first found out, that men might be held to bai: by Justices, in eases of li bel, before trial! In abort, Mr. PEcL's is an old story, which does not now pass without ( ticking that width we will net, and whit& we aasi wi t unwept to denerliu.-41, is perfectly seam - *tie; that the be' ( "at" Pasiof Ikt:J•asticiess le sew done by patios.. lit is ales sottteleas thht 1p very , considerable ponies of these pareensl receleinthe lacono of more than one Brit% each ; it is farther notorleas, that they pro and vow to God is the meet nektons m at /their ordination, that they will constantly watch over ilk lock that may be oornmitted to their charge ; and, In short, that they will devote their lives and all their capacities to the purposes of religion. Yet, notwith standing all this, we find them, as was before observed, every where upon the beeches, at Quarter Sessions as well as Petty Sessions, and meddling, with more acti• vity than any of the gentlemen of the country, with the business of Justices of the Peace. Will any body believe, that they are requested by the Government to do this ? If they be, this must be a strange sort of Government unnecessary to say more upon this subject at present, and we shall only add, that the public ought to bear in mind, that the Sheriff has, of his own authority, set aside the orders of the Magis trates with regard to Mr. HUNT; aad that this has been done, is consequence of the Petitions presented to Peoliament, from the people in the North, by Mr. Al. derma° Woofs, Sir ROBUST WILSON, Mr. Honeouss, and Mr. Hugs. The public will also bear in mind, that Mr. DicsaNsom, who formerly defended these Magistrates, and the jailer, Bridle, has now given up the jailer, bat continues to declare his belief that the three visiting Magistrates were " as incapable of " countenancing any premeditated act of inhumanity " as say gentleman who nolo heard him." This may be taken in two ways; and, at any rate, Mr. 'helms( • som's meaning depends a good deal upon the opinion he may eatertainof the humanity of thegentlemen who then beard him.—Mr. Maxon said, that he did not mean to say that Mr. Hour's sentence was originally too se vest. Mr. BUXTON'S opinion upon this point is very little interesting to as. The motion of which Sir FRANCIS BURDZTT has given notice, and which we hope will be made in a tone suited to the subject, is admirably calculated to keep fresh in oar minds as act which never ought to be for„ tten ; and, we never can speak upon this subject, without recollect int that eleause SWANN was, by the Justices of the Peace for the County of Chrshire, sent to Chesser Jail fJr fir:r rats aid s hay, in pursuance of three sentences passed on him on one and the same day. SWANN, a common labourer, when he beard the last sentence from the lips of these Justices, exclaimed, "is that "all? 1 thought you had a bit of rope in your pockets " for me V' This man's offences were, idling pamphlets, is two cases, and, in the other case, being present merely at a Reform Meeting I THE Posrmasrua-Glanznat..—Amongst the prodi• gious things that exist in this country, there is that of two persons, under the tide .of "his AI Assarr's Postosaster-General," io the singular number, each of them receiving two thousand five hundred pounds 4-year, and t i br which receipt, it is not even preten 1. d that any:mice* at all are rendered. This double jointed Postrotster-General is, or are, the Earl of Citt cure reit, andite Marquess of SALISBURY. It will be re. collected that the first of these Noblemen lately told the distressid Wafers at Lewes, that they had better stay at homeland mild their own business, the reason for which it is very easy for the public to conjecture. Last night, a motion was made by Lord NO3MAVII7 for cutting off one-half of the expense of this deuhle jointed personage, the Postmaster•Oeneral. The rea son for doing which is much too obvious for us to sciie any of the arguments matte use of in support of the mo tion ; but, we now iftt Mrdaxxas the justice to sae that he supported the motion. It was lost, at last, by twenty-five voices of a majority in favour of the Ministers, out of three hundred and fortyobree Mem bers present. Mr. Hower: Sustarea, and Mr. S. WoarLev spoke against the motion; that is to sty, for the retaining of the second Pest-master, and thereby keeping the charge of two thousand fire hun dred a-year still in existence against the country. Mr. Daxisov spoke for the motion, and said that the two Lords, according to his information, really attended for scarcely any other purpose but for re ceiving the salaries.—But now for the arguments in opposition to the motion ; or, rather, the argument, foj there was but one; namely, that the office, among.; otters of the same description, was necessary for the support of the influence of the Crown !—IVe beg the people to look well at this. For the support of the influence of the Crown ; and let os ask the people, what is weaned by influence of the Crown here ; what nature it is ; where it is to be exercised ? who are the persons that are to act in conseqsence of it —When the people have answered those questions for themselves, then let them recollect, that there is three times as mach money expended now upset the whole; and six times as much expended in offices, staff-pen• sinus and sinecures as there was expended is 179 d When the people have so recollected, then we beg them to attend to the argument of Mr. F. Rostov - al in sup port of the propriety and wisdom and necessity of this increase of influence.—He said, that there existed now a great deal morespoNi Ira/ infinmation, than forme r I , throughout the country! that public opinion had acquired a respectability which it formerly did 'not possess; that the people now scrutinize the conduct of public men with just severity; that you ceeld not now walk the public streets whitest meeting with men who knew all that public men said and !hat he rejoiced at this ; that he thought it a tree _ . l ik l i. 4L Alk f • ,o • t : .. *. •f... • , ) , .. . ... - ' • . . • - i j * . • : . : :: . 's i • ..! C.; • t. . • • • TIM 11FrA . TIIIIIIIAN. • oft: ~._ ... ~. . ._ , V ' 'r iu r er .., the whit at'' lie peAda w 1 Tho LAM MOE/ *ill wee reported, med.oriered , al i- • , , ,_ Meese,. whit* was an he wad • third time Moment, , V.; l *, •J • A .. Of the . ;, n. Aliso 818 was read a thrti dale and poised. ie dLO l ll ' '.__, . Y said.thewseatioll The other Orders el the Day bolas disposed Of, the " '''' 4 st,l i ll . pool "II ' • he *GM esodoe him- the noose, af haMpost,eiemm, adjourned. . . 5 -k . C the. mot 6 meg barks ape thii Amu _____ r A......_ - tett , Wi ' 141 has from tither side. Ma milli "'CALEDONIAN ASYLUM for SUPPORTINO -•••• di m 1 ; • , iheald.thee "Ilia Mat Ilaallblw fim Curb autlM would V and EDI:MATINS the CHILDREN of SOLDIERS, .. oh A t Feb not *Sy Minishent ill credit be *lst bed already boot SAILORS, end MAORIS, NATIVES of SCOTLAND. f greater im , ace this despite the may of retemsehment. seeordlag to the plan who Meddled. or Soso disabled in the Service of their v. If Ilmf • Ida Ott diadlosed•by his Sight Men. Prised the Cbanealtor of Oosetry. and othellgeal Rosa Parents resident is Lou- Wed, tly ,di I f .... • I lxcheqrser too a foemor aighL Theobject of Minh dna. net maid to Poresbial Relief. Cross-street, Hat- he.. IBM * , a bet *, was to extingnieh some offices, to modify others. awolowlea• with the shin a intern If pdesible to alter the regulation of the remainder. I'm !VTR ANNIVERSARY FESTIVAL of this h- id not say that r s a ••, ;*I a view to diminish the public expense ; and at that silted " will take ssee at the I r anammwas . T en SATURDAY, the lith of April next. nded, that if „o ra b s anitipaid a I.:emasisslon was sitting for the purpose of as- s them, Me se '. . 4 . cpedining tbe properieects of retrenchment. Bet PR.IIIIIIIIIIT. B. R. H. the Deka of YORK and ALBANY. la the Chair. 'orce Or all- ' orbit& reference to this calor question he must look : . .. Ill'ltWA IDS. ectent of its o s ' a •sseArtebnee of the nment is considering it.— Right Hoe. Earl Elden, Lord Colossi J. Bailie, of Lays, a therefore': -• , r. •' at slues& a mass of official labour to perform. that High Chancellor of Great M.P. • Bons stroll ,•• . - 'Most so l e mnl y declared. that. if those connected with Britain. Michael Bruce, Esq. 4 • .Right lion. the Earl of Fife. Dun. Davidson. the younger, sting any • . . - . ' • the of Goveroment whose whole Weenies were Right Hon. Lord Stowell. of Tulloch, Esq. e considire. ' .e • ‘ e ' reqoired. were removed from office. the machine corps o f EirT.r d aTielbseqehar,llart. AndrewßerkeleyDrummond, rot vote , a , , • d AM gp on. There was always a strong . e_o 'ld Sir O. Cock- Esq. ‘ ek on BM other side of the House, and it was abse- v . I SH said m ight have given lately necessary that some of the Members of Govern- Si rt j 'e . . ib ee iscre -C.R.i or M.P. nney, Ne r il sq ßanjaminEdmondstone, as no e , er q ion at issue than meat should 'be present to defend the citadel. With Bart. Ate:ander Meedonald. Esq. 'e the Howe. t other questions regard to the second branch of the question, he certainly Major•Denerel Sir W, Great William apoinierey, Esq. of greater magnitude by the Hon. did not admit that the office was an inefficient one. Kele, tint., R.M.T. Boyd Miller. Esq. erond in the debate, which if once The Hon. Member for Corfe Castle, be thought was not Sir Riebard Menlo. Lieut.-Col. Wm. Munro. ke at the root of the British Co. 'bound te_wde for th e present motion, merely because be John Brown, Esq. John Rae Reid, Esq. oppose the public voice to such bad hrole'itll tbe Bill which had been so frequently An Election of Poor Boys, to be placed on the Founds- d with the Hon. Member for Corfe alluded to. Although this office bad been included in 000, will take plot:oat the Quarterly General Court in June ne mi xt. tted A ipost pplim os tir eddreseed on behalf o f o th Ca e n corpo didate ret s esiouestober the n the denial that these principles that Bill, it had been decided not to be a siseenreoffice. 'B2, which were 'wowed by Mr. If the House sanctioned the motion. declaring one Post- ledonlae Asylum, on or before the Ist of April nest.— Riees might be retained to support master-General sufficient, they would introduce a system printed Forms ( Petitionmay be obtainedby applying at 'own. Mr. Burke's Bill went to of innovation and revolution in the whole R ata, the Asylum. M. IL rw METCALFE. Sevreta. . . .. PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAT AT ONE O'CLOCK. Beak Stock.... I lIIRa Stock. $ per Cent. Red. Shot i Otto Bonds 4os. 488. $ per Ct. Cons. 79} 9' South Sea Stock 34 per Cent Bonds Sea Old Ann . 4 per Cents... .... .... ._ Shut Ez.111119d.10001... se. is. pm ! 6 per Cts. Navy Mil --COOL.. ih. is. pa $ per Cent Long Ann.. Shut , Con. for Acct 79 iii Imp. S per GM 1 India for ditto !risk lest OM I Lott. Tickets 2211 14 _____ MUM WATER AT LOND011•9111,4111 TO.. W. Morning 39 et. after B—Evening 7 at. after 7. Cbt ktfittiftnan. TICS STATISNAII" IS 111 Wm, " ma ITATIIIIkJI.•'