The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-02-16 00:00:00

tett 'Wiwi WINO ▪ pee4tebeelt lea eetaby's ed WIN IWO bwe dun were two. Atiaddietithe bed poidetel seam AC= ei the poseest Add. I did.' Ine.••• r ag e_ . 2llllse_ eye— et idiom Mt s egisita 7 , don, he must say he for tie tie` rivebl tor Sad only pishe o ras only t!se Aisietr e • tuby e beta tto miss ua Qtt &Of It did. It bed been else, was a Use. t moment, he disposod Pi t r e lli t a l be maid to passioes of its ioha. and all nests were e tide of prosperity kingdom, he was die. e one chosen to pro. .ne, the necessity of oppression, against *se at such an occur. select this particular *ty for the recommit. table the Chemed., timed upon a defence to defend what no not easy to discover The case the Right • to mike out against a moment—it had receivad a sufficient rt friends had hel pe d .ber for Clare (Mr. for the full ex. ntiments, had actu. the Honourable Sc.. lie had mentioned a • gh the means of the ir agent In the prose ted commendation of t likely to be rendered °tics ; they would be e and general alum individual were to hi ed in passing through degree of credulity sary to investigate the prejudice that ex. In like manner many • ut it might be as well ere true, they should my to refute them ; test of a public loves. y to prove the honesty in thus submitting to hitherto formed the hat would the Orange 'ate them as the Also word, the beat way to uld be by holding out Claims. Many Gon. your of those claims, t Rill. The Right had declared himself • and of its mischievous tiered it as an incubus tit down. What was ? Were the shades of .ourable Secretary so .1 really immersed pose that the Catho- the Catholic cause, ut, if lie had v_ a rA to be hoped tht. bject ; for he had stated he Association and the to be exercised by that overnment in spite of nee a disgrace to the rernment appeared to • wer paramount to its 'a Ministers entitled to r opinions on the sub. any documentary eri. among themselves in House that the present but Ergland, and the be unconstitutional in al in England. Rut -• Association was rot . . borne in mind there and the material one, another question had Leen legal ? but he of consideration, for a , and vice Verla. He illegal nature, and that of the Irish Attorney. pted to fasten upon in. al character, but had peal, and ignored the This was a proof the of any existing law. lion to say that the nding the cane before effeczual contradiction, ut the Honourable and ..n liberty was content fine the people. but he prevent them from ex. meddle with their free could not understand Member's sophistry, step against genuine glits of the subjects of , thee piece of inform*. House that the mea •ed it would prove so, on to the execution of sounder discretion and the country, it would the House, if passed, ' e hoped and trusted land would use as' ould be likely to Ireland had eulogised , and, he believed, be reconciled with the who held another t be permitted to call is of these gentlemen the Honourable and ace l ievery a n idence in t. No authority ex , e attention, or could g experience of the have it in his power e must know what usinted with all the ( Mr. Plunkett) had ct of the Roman Ca lle (Sir Francis) was Gentleman credit for ing forward with his inclined to admit his his advocacy of the a doubt on the sub .uld pardon the exist ed how he himself had league (Mr. Canning) a doubt, he repeated, of the Hon. Member. disposed to concur his determination to apprehended Its et. ymen. He confessed ncl, and the possible more statesmanlike -(leneral for Ireland. nee and infatuatlee shorn of one of the .ire legislation ; forts which could befal cliff the lopping off of that dtiplored—tarnisliiryi iories of the county!. iced--of all the ern lation, from -lookirit ad befallen this coin• eider the loss of Ire. 11 as a feather in tat cell to the recollec nd en historical fact stances. When the ye in the recollection .g with the Fidurate ing nation under the and been subdued to deprecate thei Id to inflicted on . ...Is who bed dhows off alagyhmos to their sash What V - w ribsie, imply t—" Car dm% ypil . Will seam de u ktt ege esiltsat Mows sea gal BIONI•Mi fianh: puakh. sww a s: aheahi be labia as then who think it these duty w N owa tor thsi• Illorty. esu rths.) It would be to o ppose that thy Miss be laitosilds ps suers= and lusgassioses mistinset. Wadi is Gad that the easiest o f that greet 1 0 1 0 1 11 4 *the nage, be NNW caws' awation bet , sad roverasee, could ban 'as fact Alm thawed. .... A ewe jog ores` It wail wi th pain and togrel, wish swim and booth y i rion, that he was led to ansiost disk parley . with than which it wasp to pursue up°s dui pessisst occasion ; but, , siever may b• demo of this proposal of Majesty's cons. v i., let the Howe de what it aught, should not be dd . ' t sr, such a sad sessekt. They might WM safety : festal no dwages—Lb• drooled no such He Osumi --wpia 113 reliance upon the known wiadys 4 t 7 their med loyalty—upon their assoktnent . Is the bat todlill. lotion of the country ; but whilst he folit SO alarm Mew day= beididos of their hostility, he felt blather able the is to a ppeal to the justice of the Hooaa...i• their &asp as me, for the relief of their Catholic trymen - from their - unnatural boodage.. (Cheers.) He • b an to cams , his fellin s woe concurrence in the sentiments flonearahle m em . her foe Galway, who had laboured to walla the Catholic bar not to entrust him with their petitions. So should lament if he could not induce them again to place it in the hands of that Seamed G-entleman, the worthy successor of the immortal advocate whose ousnirplis addeorvidly dear to every Irishman, and who t Ai i, inipip ir ewllthed that cause, the devoted object of Ids life, toot tit Math •V,ldoo. suable to do it justice—tn that „0 1 ,,;e tbelaothdos• MINN were limn calculated to bees it tel art ors Albs ellAszbich might be sill opposed to it. • did notisidt IS the duty, he did not whh to amid the resPeoeib il t de 4114644;aa say td e e il eg l em a to P P r lree nal it %Ts . cieace,l4. tx=wioppg to palm powerful aid it would derive from hada, Wm 0 t hepersonsiseleffilds assihiss airpos•Fa They lied witnessed his ability—ke cost his thsampty and sad; and he would he the mai . Ids ism In fib support. as he f e l t t oovineutifils . • IRMA hod bees wind tin this occasion ken mop IWO* iiitt i liaos i g: W aited when he would 'le able ti Hon. G e w g aws ked add, th at it be ptholoted — K . pedtion -- Tir would. sat walk owl the House and leave - Mm as be (Sir Francis) at so other onsaion deserted him. He would not, after having tres passed so much upon the patience of the House, wish to dwell wee what slated to himself, but he would again assure the Right HMI. tientienian that uo efforts otitis should be wanting. The cause has a dvanced —is advancing ; enough for him be it to say—. Hic mural abeneus ester The Bon. Baronet sat down amidst loud cheers from both side of the Hone. i Mr. Secretary CANNING than Mg, and addressed the Housa to the following effect :—" Sir, efts ardente protracted so much beyond the usual limits, and in which there has existed so consi. derable a confusion—that confusion, I admit, having naturally arisen from the length and complexity of the debate itself, I should have been disinclined to trespass upon the attention of the House ; but with a view to take the subject with strict reference to the ques tion before the House, it will be my business, - before I proceed with my address, bearing in mind the speeches that have preceded me, to endeavour to disentangle it from that confusion, end reduce the parts to which attention loss been called, to their several and re. &pectin magnitudes. The question strictly before us relates to the mode in which we should deal with certain assemblies in Ireland, the nature and character of which were described in the King's Speech ; in answer to which this House pledged itself, to do no specific thing certainly, but to consider the means proper to meet the evil thus directly brought under our notice. To this considera tion, however, there has been added, I will not say as not naturally onnected with the subject, but assuredly by no means necessarily a part of the discussion of these successive days and the decision of this night, the whole of what is commonly called the Catholic Ques. rim; and to all these there has been further added and brought for ward, in a very pronlittent manner, by the lion. Baronet (Sir F. amdett), the question respecting the general conduct of the Admi nistration of which I font a part. As this is rather a question per. sonny relating to myself, I feel a great unvilliugness to obtrude it os the atten'ion of the House; but I think the House will admit the necessity, though at a later period, that 1 should trespass upon its indulgence with regard to that also. These additions divide the subjett of debate into four parts : first, as to the immediate ques tion before the House, concerning the assemblies in Ireland; secondly, with regard to the subject, as nearly connected with the Catholic Question ; thirdly, respecting the conduct of the Government; and fourthly, as relating to myself. With respect to the existence of associations in Ireland, alien to the spirit of the Constitution, and dangerous to the public peace, Xiore has not been, so far as I have observed, throughout the nurse of the deltas any attempt en the porno( any hlaaber to apply a negative to the proposition. (Gear, hear, heir...) The question the House has to decide is entirely practical : whether, having received in the Speech from the Throne a description of an evil to which that Speech calls for an effectual remedy, and having pledged ourselves to consider what means should be applied as such remedy, we shall now proceed, I do not say to adopt, for that is an after question, but to receive for consideration, the means that are suggested for that purpose? or, whether we should turn round and sty to the Crown, ' We have, on deliberation, determined that the Crown is deceived; that the description given in the !toys Speech of the existing Associations, is, in all its parts, untrue that, true it is that these Associations do exist, but that it is untrue they are irreconcilable with the spirit of the Constitution ; that, true it is that these Associations have extensive influence, but that it is untrue they kindle, create, or exasperate animosities ; that, true it 3.t is that these Associations are in active operation, but that it is untrue that they contribute in any degree to retard the course of national imptovernent : the Crown, therefore, has been misled by false advice, when it gave them this character, and it is our duty to leave that part of the Speech without any consequence, and by our refusal to interfere by our authority, to confirm, sanction, and establish these Associations.' (Cheers.) That is the practical question the House has to decide. As to the consistency of these Associations with the spirit of the Constitution with respect to some of them, not a word have I heard uttered front the opposite side of the House to impeach the truth of the assertion. With respect to the principal Association, is any further con sideration necessary to prove it than the character that unquestion ably belongs to it, according to its own representation--self-elected, self-appointed, self-constituted, self-adourned, self-renewing, ac knowledging no equal, denying any superior authority (hear, hear), levying money on the people (No, no, from the Opposition, answered by loud cheers from the Ministerial Benches), interfering laudably, as some say—improperly, as others think, with the ad. ministration of justice—not prejudging, for that is not the fit word. but condemning beforehand, the individuals whom it takes upon itself to bring to justice ; in some cases in which they are found by the courts to be guiltless, rejudging that judgment, and proscribing those whom the law has set free and declared to be innocent. (Cheers.) If that is the character of this Association, I am sure that before heats be suffered to subsist, confirmed and sanctioned as it must be after the consideration it has received in this debate, and on the plea that it is inconsistent with the spirit of the Constitution, other notions must have the ascendancy than have always hitherto pre- ' railed in this Assembly. (Cheers.) The next head I have to con. side is, whether this Association tends to maintain and aggravate the animosities that exist in that country ? As • proof of the affirmative, I will not repeat the accusation,—to which, however, I shall be compelled to advert,—which I was the first to mention in this House, and which has been so often alluded to in the course of the debate. I speak of that expression which is contained in an Mhos emanating from the Catholic Association. It luta been said, that it is unfair to take hold of a particular expression, and infer Loin i: the general character of the production; and that, in this in. stance, that it is what I have done. Why, good God .! Sir, I grant that such a proceeding would be unfair in the last degree; but is that what I have done? If this expression had dropped out in the course of debate—if it had been struck out by the collision , Ai argument—if it had been hastily issued, and, on coati_ o.ostion, retracted and disavowed—it would be unjustifiable to .ik: advantage of the indiscretion ; but, if it is found that the, expression occurs in • deliberate and considered document—if it appcsrs by proceedings that have been made public to the wool: that the obvious effect of the words was pointed out, and yet who that deliberation the whole expression was retained unaltered; surely we may consider an expression so used, and so retained, ese showing the animus of those who, under these circumstance; issued it to their countrymen. The Honourable Gentlemen oppli• site have felt this, and they have endeavoured, but 1 think In, 'sm, to extricate the Association from the difficulty. Never did I know them take so much pains to put a forced construction Ss words to plain in their meaning as pen can write or eye can rod. "Alectil We have been told by a Right Honourable (Sir H. Parnell), the Member for one of the Counties 07 " V= that this expression had not the same force io the Irish lavegele as in the English. (A laugh.) Of that I cannot profess to i= and the asserti on must be received by the llone grantunt t I observe that almost every Gentleman who has spoken on tho whet side, has endeavoured to give some specific explanation of dfidl Prb. . • rrese the‘ e s le pea wars hit is Nen. and Leaned Mend 1 44 t it . gamine Ish war le hie dime te toss( bid A esieekihnissildisi. ez d tensieo )s=tbkvolle a rr, midis • 11 1 hi p! be %kV* ft - dm swim, km, will asntilene to ache wok r ... ph, t e the an ele , seaty en ighonay, onsillyei by sop, Mar Ile hid sethlk a thisimaelf, a: illa mens i er iacm. Abe Hems, mat, after all, the sepositio In kW. "Why," said bA "hems 0111 Iry dingmatien, and yet I bate a 7bey eidendy. t: VIM eta, some . 41=opup Imps 9 , 1 01 IMO • 1 mfer, the dime elsk Ste% it may at first sound in our ewe here, . Zes in preserving tranquillity mad gesomtirg (A laugh.) We know not what vast,benefft penibasol by applying these antipathies in aid of friendly aluel..A i l h.) In illustrating the advantages of a se' "' toy on. and Learned Friend was borrowing . donde* hen a very sage and amiable character In one i dan's Comedies. Mrs. Malaprop, in giving advice:to her to dm esoduct she should pursue as to her intended - husband, . " It is always best, my dear, to begin with a little aversion. bawl your poor dear uncle as bad as a blackameor when 1 vied his, but you see now what a good wife I made !-. wards." So says my Hon. and Learned Friend, lou k. _ what a good understanding will be promoted in reland by u— honest effusion of hatred (Cheers and laughter.) n order, how ever, to raise ; more philosophical view of this expression, he re sorted to a theory not perfectly new, but beautiful beyond doubt and only wanting a foundation in truth to render it quite sone (A laugh.) " Nothing," said he, " can be more judicious dear call on men to be virtuous by an adjuration founded on their v! By this conflict of vices, we establish the dominion of virtue. sow civil war amongst the enemy. We control one vice by r and keep both down by the struggle in which they gaged." But, then, what is he who has only one ur ine? must be in • bad way with a vengeance. (Laughter.) only two, Indeed, he might be made into • perfect (Continued laughter.) According to this theory, in the mums of life, if I discharged a servant, the worst -' on* give him would he that be bad only one fault. 31 y ~.1 Li miser Friend, if be was disposed to set consistently on send me anotberservem whit two vices. He . I , ll3ll lCa lti you a man who, I confess, is a thief, - dimmikeed also. If you can make his drunkenness thierviMellios u you will cure him of both his vices." (Cheers isles.) But my Hon. and Learned Friend quoted himself as N ,oce, desirous to be, according to Pour like anotiallS L poginita. " Himself the great sublime he draws." " I knew 'Dr. Johnson," lump he i " in his society I passed inanyu Kea hours, yet I had two disqualifications, to each of which he bed strongly expressed his aversion. I was both • Whig obis Serchman." But did not my Hon. and Learned Friend see, Maio according to his new moral theory, these two objections cured each i other ? Dr. Johnson knew that he was too much a Scotchman to be a good Whig, and too much a Whig to be a good Scotch. man. (Great laughter.) And thus my lion. and Learned Friend was, by the conflict, rendered a most perfect character. I, too, have met that venerable in in the club of which he was one of the 1 founders, and notwithstanding the sentiment quoted by my Hon. sad Learned Friend, I do not believe he would have been persuaded that there wee any moral beauty in adjuring men to abandon their evil courses by the vices of their own Constitution. (Cheers.) At least, however, I think this expression may be fairly cited as a mat ter of evidence to show the state of feeling that exists in Ireland. There are animosities which ir would be dangerous to exasperate. This expression is a proof of that part of the allegations on which the =ent for the proposed measure rests. Is this House then, I repued to say, that the existence of this Association can be conducive to the improvement of the country, or on the contrary, mot calculated to retard it ? This is a proposition, on which I hold it to be impossible to entertain two opinions. (Cheers.) But the Semoutable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) expresses his surprise that when the King's Speech declares that the kingdom is in a flourish. Mg site, and that Ireland partakes of the general prosperity, there is a strange inconsistency in calling for repressive laws to be ap plied to that part of the kingdom ! Inconsistency ! Sir, I see no inconsistency in those parts of the King's Speech ; I see the re , verse. The fact that Ireland is improving in all the grea branches of public prosperity, is established by the testimony of all who ' know any thing of the country. But does that fact necessarily pre- vent the existence of a particular evil, calculated, it' suffered to pro ' peed unchecked, to retard tlas progress of improvement by deterring enterprise, by diverting capital, by destroying confidence, and by 1 Ina striking, in fact, at the very root of the public welfare, by setting neighbour against neighbour? (Cheers.) Unless we can insure leanquillity for the present, and confidence for the future, it is idle 110 attempt, as it were, in 3 new country—for these things are indeed Yew to Ireland—to raise manufactures, to promote commerce, to ease the public wealth, and to establish the prosperity of the 'pantry. My Hon. and Learned Friend knows, as we all do, that liss tide of English prosperity was setting full on Ireland. lie knows also, the positive obstacles which now exist, and as long as Ibis Association continues, must continue to exist ; to stem the course of that tide, and check, if not divert it entirely. It is not incumbent on this House to remove these obstacles and restore things to that natural course which tends directly to raise Ireland In the scale of nations? (Cheers.) 1 say then, that the first ques tion to be considered by this House is, whether we should not put down an Associatioo which, arrogating to itself unnecessary and sitailawdeall-peinames wide to create and exasperate an;rnosities, and to check the course of our national prosperity ! The answer is easy, without introducing the word " Catholic" at all, or considering 1 the religious complexion of the Association. It is on that vie*, and not on account of its being either Catholic or Protestant that I wish to see it seiipressed. I look not at its reli gious character at all, but at its mischievous political character; and, therefore, I call on the House to entertain the measure b which we shall rid that unhappy country of an influence which operates so mach to its prejudice. I do not attrieute to the Catholic Association that it affirms itself to be the representative of the people of Ireland. Undoubtedly it has done no such thing. If it had so done, ho fresh legislation would have been necessary. The existing law is clear and express on that point. not I cannot shut my eyes to the tact that that character is attributed even in the debates of this House. If, then, the notoriety of a fact be held a sufficient mason to take a step in legislation, I must consider suf. ficient for this occasion the statement we have all heard of an opi nion, and an opinion, I believe, perfectly just, that this Association, whether it styles itself so or not, is the virtual Representative of of the people of Ireland. (Cheers.) I call on the House to think still more seriously whether such an Association with such a cha. racter attributed to it, though not assumed, can co-exist with this House? Is it possible, I ask, that the House of Commons, representing the people, as it dcs s, in the sense in which we are said to represent them, can co-exist with another Assembly, to which is also attributed the representative character in u powerful, as sacred, and as efficacious a manner, though not conferred upon it by the same process by which the representative character is conferred upon this House? If the proposition be not yet ac tually true, at least the statement shows to what character this Association is directly tending: and then this ques.lon wises, whether it be not wise to interfere, before the period has arrived when that character is assumed which renders the co-existence im: possible? (Cheers.) I intruded to abstain from casting imputa tions, and 1 hope I have refrained front applying any harsh words to the Catholics. I bad no disposition to do so; but, if I had, the I Information communicated by the Hon. Baronet would entirely have disinclined me from so doing. That information makes no difference however, as to the expediency of this measure. Because the Catholics will obey the law, Parliament ought nut to refrain from passing it. On the contrary, with this determination on their pert declared, it is still the duty of Parliament to persevere. If the debate had been kept within the range to which the King's Speech wriAld have confined it, stripped of all topics of inflammation and exaggeration, I should have been content to have gone to the vote on the Bill, in the conviction that the duty of the House was clear, but now I think it is imperative. Though the Catholic Question formed, in my opinion, no necessary part of the debate, it is impossible now that I should take part in the discussion, without speaking out fairly and openly with regard to it. It wags attempted in the earlier stages of the debate to represent the Catholic Association as me;elv in strumental to bring that question under the consideration orPar liament ; and it was asked, whether we could put down that body without cutting off all communication Letwees the Catholics and the House cf CoMmons ? To that question I was prepared to have applied myself; but after the information given by the Honourable Baronet, it would be ungenerous to press further — Sir F. BURDETT-1 beg to explain. I had no information to state beyond what I had from the public papers. 'le. CANNING—Then certainly I have mistaken the Hon. Baronet, and so have those around me. (Hear. hear, hear.) I un derstood him u making an authorised communication. Sir F. BURDETT-1 founded my statement on the accounts in the newspapers. The Right Hon. Gentleman will there find the words I alluded to. They were used at the last Catholic Meeting. Mr. CANNING—I really wish the Hon. Baronet would hand the paper over. I have not read the account to which he refer ; the information is quite new to me. 1 uuderstood him as making • declaration for which he had authority from the Catholic As sociation. Mr. BROUGHAM—If the Right Don. Gentleman will per -1 mit me, I will read the werda a the petition from the Association, which I shall present to-morrow : ' As soon as the Bill shall have reseived the Royal Assent, your petitioners will bow to it in submission ; but, meanwhile, they pray to be heard against it by CounseL" Mr. CANNING—I am sure the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) must see that this is quite a different thing. I was arguing in the sincere belief that the Hon. Baronet had received authority to make a communication to the House, but now it ap pears that the submissive intention is coupled with some conditions (" No, no," from the opposite side.) Without arguing that pointi now, whether the Association may be or not prepared to submt unconditionally, it appears to me absolutely necessary, in either case, that Par liament should go on. Mr. BROUGHAM—'they offer unconditional submission to the law, but reserve to themselves (Cries of " Order, order.") Why really this is an extraordinary call of Order. I wish to expedite the business of the House by saving the Right Hon. Gentleman perhaps a good deal of unnecessary argument. The Association do not pretend to withhold their unconditional submission to the law, when it has, by the Royal authority, become law, but they reserve to themselves, in the progress of the meuure through eohPar liament, the righ t which belongs to all the King's subjects, to op pose it ln c 1 and constitutional way, by petitioning this House. Mr. CAN ING—Then I understand you that they do not make their final submission conditional ? Mr. BROUGHAM—Certainly not. • . the ac claims, _ shahs would go to MAIM theieetoblishineet. "tbe fifth of that settee of resolutions on which the act of Haim between Brest Britain and Ireland was founded, runs in theta yzada:—" On the same pur pose (that is, on the Westing of the Unten) the Church of that part of Great Britain called England, and the (;antreli of Ireland, shall be united in one Church, retaining to the Church of Ireland all her rights, privileges, and jurisdictions, and that the continuance and preservation for ever of the said Church shill be deemed and taken to be an essential and fundamental poet g the Union." That i s I one of the articles 611 which the Union iota:mica. and in reference to that article did Dlr. Grattan introduce! his Bill ; and though I have not been able to lay my hands on my Right lion. Friend's Bill, I believe the preamble was copied in which the matter is re- cited in substance as follows r—'• Mrhereas the Protoglant Este blished Church of England and Ireland are establlehyd Ohne nentlyand inviolably, and whereas its tends to promote the interests of the State, and strengthen the free constitution of this realm, of, . which these Churches are an essential Fart," &c. Up to the period at which these Bills were discussed, the belief of the people of the people of England was, that this article was a fundamentel part of that arrangement. but within these two years they have seen certainly no decision in this House of a contrary nature, but they have seen questions mooted sad dixislons take place, that have caused great alarm, and have resuscitated an Opposition almost extinct. (Cheers.) On the 4:h of March, 1823, the following Resolutions were moved in this llou'e : " Resolved, That the property of the Church of Ireland, at pre. sent in possession of the Bishops, the Deans, and Chapters of Ire land, is public property, under the control and at the disposal of the Legislature, for the support of religion, and fur such other per awes as Parliament in its wisdom may deem beneficial to the coin. munity, due attention being paid to die rights of every person now enjoying any part of that property. " That it is expedient to inqui:z whether thc present Church Establishment of Ireland be not inure than commensurate to the services to be performed, both as regards the number of persons employed, and the incomes they receive; and if so, whether a re. eduction of the same shall not take place, with due regard to exist ing interests. That the peace and best interests of Ireland would he promoted b 7 a commutat;on of tithes, on such principles as should be ecn sidered just and equitable towards the present possessor, whetberlar or clerical." On the first of these resolutions the division was 63 in favour of the resolution, and 62 against it. The division on 'the second occasion was 153 to 72. In saying that the effect of these resolutions was highly injurious to the Catholic Question, I state that only which I know ; for the discussion of them was regarded by the people of this country as a disposition to departure front those conditions which Mr. Grattan (and I concurred with him entirely in the opinion) looked upon as a necessary preliminary to this favourable reception of the measure. Unquestionably, the resolu tions raised a degree of suspicion ar.d of jealous distrust, if not in the minds of those who were ti.e most anxious supporters and advocates of the question, at least they did so in those who were either not dislaclined to support it, oc who had brought their minds to that temper in which they were not prepared to oppose it. Such was the estimate which I had formed of the feel ings of the people of England, and which! observed to have been created by the discussions to which I have adverted. Nor did I do so alone ; the same consequence from these reeol'ations has been observed by many others as well as myself. The ieople of Eng land feel that the Church Establishment of England and of Ire land are one—one by compact, and one by law ; and accordingly whenever .Ir. Grattan brought forward this question, either con. suiting the feelings, or, as some might suppose,sactificing to the prejudices of the people of England, he so framed the basis of the Bill which he introduced, on the acknowledgment of the identity, the irrevocability, and the permanency of the Church Establish. meat of the two countries. (Hear, hear.) In the condition, as an essential one, I sincerely concur, whilst 1 support with other Hou. Members, differing Only in degree from sonic of them, the genera measure of emancipation. Of one thing I am most anxious to assure those who may hereafter introduce or support a Bill on that subject, that unless the same regard for the inviolability and permanency of the Protestant Establishment be not manifested, it will—and must fail ; the observance of this sacred principle under any circumstances is ne„ misery to its salvation. There may be many who might thin,i, mid consistently too, with their support of the measure, that it were better that Parliament should be pledged to it—better to leave teat prin. ciple out of vie*; but those who entertained such opinions would do better to settle them with the people than to evince too great an anxiety for the discussion of them in Parliament. The mover and supporter of this Bill, who are also the supporters of these resolu tions, must make their election ; the option was eefore thetn--either they must give up these resolutions, or, by renewing and pressing them, they must be satisfied to lose the Catholic Question. (Hear.) On those grounds I stated the opinion to the House relative to the situation to which I conceived the question Stood, to be regarded by the people of this country. I am not thereby expressing myself in any way as unfriendly to it (lieu, from Mr. Ilunie), but I am unfriendly to the *imitation of the Church of Ireland (cheers) ; though a Catholic in the and sense of the word, as desirous of universally extending and communicating the blessings of the constitution to all classzs of subjects, it is not from any regard to the religion of the Konian Catholics ; it is not from a tolerance of all the absurdities of that religion, nor is it from a want - of due regard or attachment to the Protestant Church, or from or of desire, by every possible means, to serve its interests permanently; but because I am convinced that the measure is a safe and a politic one; and that what is asked may be granted without injury to the Protestant, with service to the Cetholic, and to the mutual advan tage and happiness of both. I have now stated to the House the reasons that induced me to form the opinion that the question had retrograded; and I do not think I took up the opinion lightly. And I will further Add, that if the Catholic Association be permit ted to exist—if, after the language that has been theta spoken, and after the intimidation it has held act, it continues the organ of con veying to the people of England such language and intimidation as have recently marked its proceedings, it will be hopeless to try the Catholic question. In saying this, I am disposed to regard the informaion which has been communicated to the House this evening, and the detention (iffaithfully fulfilled) of the Catho lics, to respectfully obey the law, as a circumstance most favourable and auspicious to their cause. Although I believe a retrogression has taken place, yet I doe.ot believe that retrogression to be irrecoverable. By this manifestation of duty on the part of the Catholics, one great obstacle has been removed, and their friends may indulge in belles hopes for the success of their cause than before. It had been *tempted to connect the Catholic Association with the Rowan Ca tholic population of the country. 1 shall not now delay to discriminate the many and obvious points in which a difference exists, and of the unfairness it argument of endeavouring to identify them; but I am anxious to advert to an argument which had been used on this side of the House, and which has been, I think, mistaken on the other. The argument had ban understood, on the opposite side, as offered with a view of showing what little interest the humbler classes of society took in du decision of this question. As I understood, it was offered to point out the comparatively inferior interest which the lower climes would have in a measure of this kind to those of a higher order ; for my part there is no position which I seized on with more eagerness, and endeavoured to esta blish, than that whatever concerned the higher classes of society, concerned the humbler also, and that all members of a society tea bound together by sympathies, however distant or innumer lble may be the hake of the dale by which they were united. (Hear, hear, hear.) The argument put forward from this aide of the House did not tend to controvert that position': it only went to show what was really the fact, that all the interest or advantage that could be communicated to persons in the lower ranks of subor dination, they were already in possession of, while thou In higher stalks could only be benefited by the concession of what remained be be granted. In doing this, in my opinion, the Legislature pro ceeded by mistake—they gave (to take the extremes of each grade) every thing to the peasant that he could hope to get, and withheld every thing from the Peer which he was ambitious to possess ; this was a false view, an erroneous line of policy to adopt. On the p metal question of the Roman Catholics, my opinion is, u it has always been, strongly in favour of it ; not that I believe until that measure be accomplished no good can be done for Ireland—for much good has been done, and more is in immediate prospect; but this I believe, that the achievement of that measure is requi. site and essential to Ireland ; it is the crown to be placed on the consummation of the work, without which it cannot be coin. were removed, ...et ceased whicff had induced me to ferrets from the mention of this question. I *jutted a perpetual Regency in the same light as the commencement of • new aeimt. About this time Lord Vi ellealev quitted office t the Mi nistry were then, as they were before, divided on the questiofthes to its merits ; but they were United in the determination to relief the consideration of it. Knowing this, I was determined to force it on, as the obstacle which hitherto had Inatteed me to abstain bringing it forward, had, as I have already stated, ceased to vent nie. Accordingly, I gave notice of a motion on the The other remarkable event of that year was the lamented if Mr. Perceral, which took place between the time of my givkalvetr. ties of the motion and the time of its diseustion. Shortly cofe. quent to that event, an offer was made to me to take office ; to that offer I replied by inquiring if it was the intention of Administra. tion to persevere in the same opposition to the consideration of the Catholic Claims which had hitherto been a bond of agreement amongst them? I received in return a communication that it was; to which my answer was a refusal of office. (Loud cheers.) iFhat right; I now ask, had the Hon. Baronet to throw out the insinua tions which he did against the course I pursued on that occasion, or to arraign the integrity of my conduct? It is not fair to try tile part I have acted by the vulgar test of the consideration—in or out of office. Had I not then a temptation to take office ? I had been th: defender and supporter of the Spanish war in Par. liamont—that war which afterwards led to such brilliant results. I had borne the loom of all the charges and accusations which had beep brought against it ; and I was about to see ethers enjoy ing the credit of a task in the labours and difficulties of which I had borne a principal 'share. Was',mot this a temptation to take office ? Was not this en occasion when the spirit of an English gentleman would naturally prompt him to desire to be so situated that he might enjoy the hotioarable gratification of reaping the harvest which he himself had sown,' and the promising growth of which he had watched over with the most intense and anxious in terest? (Cheers.) 'l'lle temptation was great ; the inducement was of no mean or ordinary kind; but, notwithstanding the great. ness of the temptaeion, when the offer was made ti me, fsi ones declined it. (Cheers.) The next step was, I went to Lord Liverpool t.) propose a joint Administration. This proves that an Administrat!tm composed of men of adverse opinions might b; of benefit' GI the country. I was not theb peektrig to come into an Administration, but to form one. Tina Adeotnistratioft differed on the 'Catholic question, but agreed' in every other particular. plat am I now to be reproached a; havinz joined in an Administration with colleagues, agreeing in all points except one ? I thought then, and do now, that it was the best Administration that could be formed for the country.-- This might be accounted an absurd opinion ; but it is my opinion and I disdain to answer the charge - of want of inte grity. It may be from want of wisdom, but it was formed on deliberate consideration. I endeavoured then to form an Adminis tration on the same grounds on which the present one stood, and of whose Cabinet I am a manger. 1 am still, Sir, in the year 1812, and I need not remind the House that the rest of the negotiazioa failed, bat on other grounds than this of the Catholic question. A niaq disingenuous interpretation hotelmen put upon my refusal tb take (Ace at that time. It has beented SNP *-wirti.al refusal tre come into office without the Catholic question wee advocated. If I refused on the Ist of May, because they would not yield the point of the Catholic question, could I mean to reject any proposals of not being in at kit ? At the time 1 have alluded to, my motion was brought forward, and the effect of it was, to pledge the House to take into consideration the Catholic claims, with a view to an adjusurfetit. In bringing forward that motion, I stated my ob ject to be the consideration of the measure by Parliamentary com pulsion, in order to do away with the obstacle which the Govern ment had raised. The bond which subsisted in Perceval's time was renewed ; but instead of being united against the Catholic ques tion as then, they were merely bound not to influence the Govern ment as individuals ; and Mr. ()rattan and myself congratulated each other on the breaking down of the opinion. When my motion was brought forward, Lord Castlereagh seconded it, and it was carried by a clear majority of 1211. Al the isame period the motion was brought forward in the House of Lords by Lord Wellesley ; there it was lost, for there were 126 against it, and 125 for it, so tl.at it Was only lost by a minority of I. That was a time when the Catholic supported question was by majorities such as have not been seen since, but which I should like to see again. From that time, via. 1612, the Cabinet has stood on the same basis, and it was at 'the time considered as a beneficial chimp, but which was now so much cried dean. This measure has been pur sued by every successive Minister for the last twenty. five years ; and because I will not beat all the responsttility, I am to have im putations and suspicions cast upon my integrity, to clear which I have offered the statement which I have made. I am. however, perfectly aware that I am personally obnoxious to several indi viduals on the other side of the house, because I have not always I unsuccessfully opposed them. It has been uniforinly my determi nation `to press, urge, and sustain the Ccholie question ; and I have done it, not for the sake of the Catholics themselves, but for the . sake of the prosperity of the empire at large, and from a general corn- Whensive benevolence temente the whole of the population. (H ear.) ith regard to what it may please Parliament to grant, It is a mat. ter whkeh the recipients must leave to us ; we are not to be dictated to what we shall grant, and what we shall not--Parliament will give as much as it pleases. (flew.) I have acted upon this doc trine both in and out of office. I mate this that it may not be 'opposed that I avoid communication, because it might be sup posed to be inconvenient. 'I hare always disclaimed the commu bltation, for I have observed su ff icient to be aware that those who ind themselves as their servants, had a hard service of it. A si milar feeling has always existed, and I am determined to act ac. cording to my own judgment, and not according to their opinions. Sir, 1 left off' with the conclusion of 1812 ; bet I feel, Sir, how malty apologies are necessary to--(Continued Cheering.) There is not to human nature an inexhaustible fund of patience, and there Ili no one, however patient, but'what constant attacks would rouse to his own justifidation. This is the first I have ever made, and it Shall be the last. (Hear, hear.) But being the last, it shall be complete. I will now, Sir, proceed. In 1812 I would have given , ten years of my existence to have been tiro in office ; not that I cored for office itself, but on account of the then state of the coun try. Yet, notwithstanding my ardent desire, I then refused office ted account of the Catholic question. From my earliest youth I bad one great object of ambition beyond every thing—it war a de sire to represent the University in which I was brought up. When I first entered into the political world, and took the decided part In favour of the Catholic question which I did, I was fairly warned ' that I forfeited all chance of success in my election. (Hear, hear.) It was the greatest of all the disappointments I have ex , paaienced in my life (and I have experienced not a few)-1 say, this waa the greatest ; it destroyed all the hopes I had nourished for years; but I remembered the pledges 1 had made, and I dis dained to forsake them. To no one have I, from that time to this, ever revealed the sacrifice I made. (Hear ' hear.) I rejoice in the election that was made in consequence of my giving up the fair chance I possessed ; I rejoice in it, and I hope that the two Ho nourable Members may long do honour to each other and the Uni versity they represent ; but I now tell them, as I tell the House, for the first time, of the disappointment I felt. It is a little too much, after these sacrifices, to be told I am looking to personal objects ; it is hard to be taunted and twitted for having joined an Administration that will not immediately give in to the Catholic question. I pray you condemn my judkment, but acquit my honour. (Cheers) I believe that there is in this country a great inert mass of opposition to the Catholic question—this feeling must be gradually worn away. I think nothing can fortify the resist. ance to the Catholics so much as the apprehension, on the part of the people, than the idea of a government which should be united to carry the question. If a Cabinet is ever ffintroll stpusisly for the purpose of carrying the question, let my prophecy be remembered, I say it must fail. It is my sincere belief, that if the Catholic question is to be carried st all, it is to he carried by discussion in this House, for it is only discussion that it wants ; and by repeat. edly bringing the question forward, it would appear to Govern ment as if the Ministers were merely obeying the commands of Parliament. This is the safest and best method of proceeding, because public discussion was the actual question. I take it to be no mean proof, that the Cabinet is as good as it can be in this country, that no Cabinet has been formed for twenty-five years which could yet agree upon the principle. It has been stated that because I may have the power to carry this measure. and as some Honourable Gentlemen think it possible for me to do so, whether it be by resigning office and taking part in the question as a pri. .e a he consequence's _ --. 11'14 . I‘ amidst cheerilig from all aide; of the (louse.) ' fir. BROUGHAM troniediatelY rose, but hors the great noise the bar, see eral minutes elapsed beiene he cadet proceed. He red the House, that in rising at the close of that long-pro tracted dehates.-protracted indeed, but 'fidt 'longer than in pro. don to the importance—th e vit a l importattro--of the question ir isu them—he, in rithig, to Ming up the close of the debate, • pardon e if possible, to nprruw the compass of h i s oteser's:. : • . . 7 r ) ;,?s e tt oi w nl if. e t o ge l L e o l re mP li f incd th w e 'a lso iii n lro ule r7. the e they must already have undergone during the dis lie was also driven to 'Oh it, as he himself had been elsewhere, and was not/ consblerably 'indisposed. by fatihiie. He would therefore, wiihoot more ado, enter on the subject, and would again entreat patiently to be beard, while Its ensue to what he felt to be the real question, and grappled 'with the main body, casting . aside every thing not inchoately Vssinneetad with it, and snipping h of :di' extraneous matter, he would not enter into the larger field of Carbolic grievances, as his predecessors in the debate had done. Indeed be should include In this charge wine of his own Hon. Friends : in justice ha could not acquit them, while he charged others. He would alio avoid all personal topics: he thanked Obd: lie bad nu °eel' ion to buroduce diens Ile was never charged with, nor indeed could he be charged With, inconsistency, and least of all on Irish affairs:: he utter could be called to stand on his trial fur such a thing. He would not therefore have to follow the Right lion. Gentleman opposite through all the parts of his speech-a speech which he wag far from blaming, and'fruno which he could not withhold his Want ration, without mentioning what was (hal, npression it produced. So far it was intended to be a personal rindkation. lie sitip . rned, how ever, that it was exceedingly different from what the Right Hon: Gentleman's friends felt and would wish others to foil. Agraih he repeated he did not blame him for the attempt : it was uue to himself and to the House to made it. Ti.e oliServatibns which he I lir. B.) would make must appear compatatifely uninterestMg. Spea k ing on general subjects has this always unpleasant c onse q uence, contrasted with any thing personal; the litter iohassts mere, sad mush less jades the attention. He would. lioiveier, confinehinil self to the measure already so ably discussed, and to which ensi, vast powers of intellect had been brought, but of which somewhat yet remains to be said. He would at once declare himself the de. fender of the Catholic Association ; he wsa the adv:;::ate Tin theft meeting, consulting, remonstrating, and demanding. (Cheers. This was hie solemn opinion ; he could not jobjrotto their vatitien : Mg, if they did so respectfully ; he could not Nett to their ration: strafing, provided that they did it calmly ; lie felt thitt tint mor4 high their post, the more proud and commanding their Vernearti one, the mere would they be respected. (Cries of " Hear; hater." Tins was the more likely, as the grovellin g , s elf- conv i c t e d, s e lf'. mistrusting prayer, never yet succeeded. ((Loud cha4s.) It won't,. be seen that be had not, to use a phrase often h ear d It? that !Incite -I blinked the measure. The Right ilonourable 'Gentleman who la ss spoke talked much of his aiming to the wit.ds that feeling an passing popularity, ei; 1 following the dict..tes of' his ccesciene he (Mr. Brougham) was just is ready to ghee ft ta the winels4= he would do soon the morrow of that night; if *pit duiy to inthselP 4 and the benefit of his country demanded it ; but he IMP'. 4. took higher ground—he had proclaimed himself the champio n the Associauun, and he coup' hot refrain front hie duty wit& saw his client persecuted—(Clieena)—when he saw him 'a:tack and sought to be put down by the force of jaw. (Ilear;ji - ar.) Th fioneuarble and Learned (lantern= then proceeded to reply t the charges made ag ainst the Association t it h a d been there against them by the Honourable Aleniber for Here(' elshire—ttia it was calculated to foment discontent. His Honourable Prim said Croy were rot a see '. :id a, but t .at the lire issuinethrotig it'would turn downwards, and iii the end destroy the Goveinniend The principal charge against them was the interference olds the con= of justice; and lie would proceed to see how their con dest justified tit, charge. There were two prenroutiena cent ducted by thero, and from the nv.nner of their proceeding in Omit he could not but contend that they were judicions'y conducted- 4 4 was said that they did not alloi justice to take its conae, hut thi4 they brought the pro& of their purse, the parti-lily of their col, lectors ant aintriblitors, again t the accused, and that he had thrtheh to contend with all the disadvantage of having their vote promul. gated to the world. (Hear, h. ar.) But how did these nrosecutier.s end ? In the easy and Jonah= ory acquittal of the accused. (cheers) But, said his lion. Fr end (Mr. (1. Lamb) the result might have been otherwise. Suth was the subtlety to which he had recourse ; to it he (Mr. Brougham) would limply answer, if the results were different, his opinion ti ight be different also,—(a laugh)--and these two prosecutions, th t ended so safely and so advantageously to the accused, were the only charges that could be called from the storehouse of the Irish oth: e ; and these were not fairly OR truly stated. He did not mean to impute mice:present:Con to the Rig , I lion. Gentleman (Mr. Goulburn); the mistake Wu owing to thi •advisers of these facts, to whom he lent a res.ly and perhaps a willing ear. (A laugh.) yet on this nth-statement of facts the House was called to legislate. Even the sham form of laying papers on the table was dispensed with, nor was even the odious green hag brought down. (Cheers.) And j - et on such grour , ii were they called on to pass a law to destroy die liberty of the Ina!) people. It had been said that 4:.7 magistrates unanimously ac quitted the soldier tried before than, and thattbey as unaniumual declared there was no foandatiOn for the ;barge against him. The House were not told that the magistrates were consulting for two hours and it half on the subject, and that a lire minority refused to agree in saying there was no foundation 'for the annisatton ; asd the reason for their su doing was, Met a alines% had steed on the trial what he hal never mentioned up to that tinic.-L The other caw was that of the murder of Llatlyhay, and one advantage resulting from the adjournment or the debate was, that it gave him the opportunity of seeing and converse r.` with the leading Counsel in that prosroution. And here again he would show the falsehood of the statement issuing from the trait Castle. It was said that ell doubt of the innocence of the prisoners was at once removed, and that it was evident there was not the slightest shadow of undo in the charge. But even if it were so, the case proved nothing. They went on to say, that there was the grossest discrepancy In the evidence—that the witnesses contra. dieted themselves—that it clesr!'e appeavd, from the evidence of two respectable surgeons, there was no fracture—and, in tine, that all the facts were perverted. But lie (Mr. Brougham) contended, that the men were not put on suspicion. kg was shown at the trial that the two vileness the moment the deceased received the death-blow; tan at anal seized a man standing by, that they took him into coatody, and after keeping him for twenty-four hours conhned, matte no charge against him ultimately. And, further ; that they returned to the dead man, while lying on the pavernart,:and officiously offered him bread and wine, and this while he was as dead as a scoot. anal at the trial a witness was produced, who had never Wooed a syllable before, either to the Coroner or to the Cirand Jury, of whit he then swore Wrote the Court--namely, that he had seen =Wit" person altogether unknown to him, and whom ha had never tell that moment seen, with a weapon, and who had indicted the deadly blow. Now, who was this witness? 11'lay, the *how w; a the prisoner's own servant. lie was Liked, on his cro• s examine:lin. Did you ever say this before to any one :—No. 1)11 you ever tell it to the C‘riner or to the (band Jury ?—'Sch: (Hear, hear-) He never made this fact known. Said he to himself, I care not fur Coroners, I ease not for Grand Juries, nor for witnesses; 1 shall reserve myself for a Petty Jury, where I shall be - ssrtain of procuring an acquittal of the prisoner, and of saving the real murderer t so. This witness was . uked Why, then : question to be put. (Hear, hear.) Yes, the Judge refused the question to be put ! lie would repeat the question—" Why 41,4 aiNfolLyoutrmia.k.rn:w(TagihthedisJiufraid.geltimwddtlioluuntyriocu3dwtharefhetucileulige° tvorcsdriumn:aedthrisetosaitliboft:f.tiritt -101 l o the ir - have desirel—it must have led to a ROOM try Rqu .. f eoner? Why turn did you not before this late p ei' .oil. after the sworn,pyoriunnoert to it fo di e t e b t wee o- , to-clay ma y n t b e: a l :ed. the e Coroner naecodesarrlie rily dirdhoan,te tell , i a e tt h rish y rn ou i tyhors roes have tenno muttaw fact, which would hive acquitted the mutant at mice ? The Judge would not allow this question to be put. He (Mr. 11.) spoke this In the ficartss of men, who, by their learning, their profession. and their experience, had artivedat the knowledge of what was the props" counte for a Ju lire to have taken** such an estsainn, he vivant the Gentlemen of the English Bar and he would leave it to any one of them, it he Goo* to the of that Judge se that occasion. The low si f ledge had oot b ' : Poe.. ..,,i • " • i , ..., . , ; • ~' , i A 4 t S'l l I; , ji . 1 1 Nr ---": ' `":' pig, s- - -.-- . - - -- " --7.---11 V . N111.77157011•Mrir1i111,4 ..... •••••,........ r IirriIWRIMP".WW•4 MM., . • . . . • , I \ it . Ni . , THE BRITISH PRESS. -.., ... ......... - i......"...- rd.__ . l . _ i od. fir ale rt. CAsaiNholtigfrprotriferill. wet pga + ess --3 I atildd a ittffi t z e ic i l a t e em oi. li was, 4He t a i r t , ala h r err y l ar lzew ta by the on ' w ari b ut..i a i: T t at t s s auld bi ti a ll ia rli a tit y, ookt fe g i tl av iex t aig i, ..g liti ci . o 4 , di. , i tiv . 1 . 1 it rol istell fort on the oPletehtl ra ' AP km tisei he, furl gem into the Cabinet "Fa the and d' thq u ll the NNW , arAbdAlintp i i i Kt d aim 1114 40c4 is in ed. I allude to the 111* Maw sborld not. lam at liberty to quit Office If 'l' please, Mth .., dble of Me of the eseleletee , Coyhplic , - *not a et the oft dereles p arts the quaotion as a priyate individual ; Ind I mai,e_lra . fki 1 ; der and de- empeading, hut a meth gar paeshig. * Measure. Cs/belle rent, frio t _iii or Nothrg h 4 leas, mow- the question e v en in office ; b ut , Whether I st i , e .em eT . tby sepias. ear the craw views im.Weithe Figoo lbw, 40/Sodoo, :Tijle of twenty ilia Needing. It b• , face - or whether I stud/ t will ream eto tsar own _._._ _ . 4: admiration. Stet is haidab ~wL I leM - ,lll_ _. imet be lee At that a hedy SPaeld Cabinet - has been fee and I will not attend to the taunts of HoDour (tenthdoft 't- ied to fancy tejlec • Motif fan g 4 1 • else tOte.Wee MOll- ms to the meant. There has not Meth eldeellt i = l l% is my view of the stele of the country mist say, Ido not titbit tlte don was no doses °fade- asteei. at • , so It were, beside. the which any Cabinet existed In this otelifflotha- petted yet arrived for this attempt. An Iftm. ncntlernan.lak example, I POreasatif lissMillY.• 1, 1 ; o, mare limited I_4fm, as jeer. It was a characterhtic of the emptied we to mite this into consideration without tbe least km ; dandy. (A con _ the Hathelie gisiestegy 1 tank Lice fart of des Ac . and his friends around him supporsthe Nsedidellet of and he was ploopetli to ask yehe,thcr, I did not look' to Popularity, an( tpide • one anti. Mamie* the depositerYeg-tdeMPHMell et UM Catholics , La them, composed of diecordant ele more than the We stin prade• of the pasaingsmounut e I &Meer, expression, the most deal thing that ma befibilleie theffm. )bits the inflonsa- sure. In Mr. Pitt's Adminiettodeli that Ido feel a desire of eptitob:.tion, for 1 think that the man who 4 e, may have don I have new received renders it &Odle to proceed in there were discordant opinions in the is insensible to the prgiani of his lE4lOd-cinema, is untit to All mtirg kind. this line. If they tender so nag beniedge, lam not de- general understanding to resist this tneetirm a r tedelertii t i i4t r il i t n4 a f u rs; cou y t: i t , r i y. ne lwou d ld o is n o i t iab cilr i t an b o d lr t i e o r n for i fee ta or wnehts may moos . to . mese twits that Ilan the or ac rim ony.it and a usg never formed put of any _agre_mn•mt i riendly feel. my opinion the mama of the 1 mai nmember . ( H ear, bear.) 11 , Lord tdPlP' Illobklbstion &roe the welfare id ge i ii r t ' ry . P lf an Ifo jumble Illem4 who iikai l a W i sufficiency operating cense for that alienation of liqt . Mind of England which fpllowed, from an offalade MO& to had made hinthelf oonapicume on the first night of tbe Seaway by ' • t a favourite front the Catholic quostioo, width the ei* sew or the snow I prevail, although disc c adent opinitthlf Ithee Mil by the his milmutt of the A4SOClatiell , if he thins he is pursuing thermal' "• 4 to of Sheri- stated it to be my. eon/ ant belief had Oath place. (hm, hear.) memlers of the Cabinet, yet there wore so to popularity, he may • Mit I tell him, I th ink thct, byany path, I gq i I nem her niece as When I say th at doit i Cathelic question her ed in the fa- resist the consideration of the question, whibeelell ,band, mys, your of the people of Ensialisl, I state a belie I egteeteai with his speculative diffevence of opinion. In ISIS —._..—„. E4peeto credite quar;u zed peolog i ptift -H i . aversion. I pi; but Maltase at the state in which that q on stands, I see Mr. Fox came into °Kai. Of that Cabbiet twir selere In deems aqurgat qqo terbin9 torquest haven+. .I , , i d then I mar. none in comeabeg it. 1 think it better to state my opinion member' who had been always prominent ned'meeket atialmote. I, Sie, know 'be dislike of. the *people of Englandao innovation, ."' e him after. frankly happy laded If it thoidd lie found to Ise erroneous. lity with which they opposed tfiemseleat to this mmettee--the one; and I wish to convince them that .einaiitipAting the Vatholics la i know not (11ther;:beer.) Otte memo& of to/ opinion I have In the Lord Sidmouth, and the other a Noble hoed taken ft mat of not innut soon. I, Sit , was never the advocate Whim...mien, • land by th is jay = ar Friend aft, Wier est r, who f ilt concluded erst justice , a place from which, b ! Istr ia t i Cis a l at imet if• i . ei= «.:: a but fuel th to st th e r m :t a r 0 1 , d ia nA p t I f ie? yol.lia: v b r it a t f i et a:! .4 the tt, c e utay o ,. 1 . ss m i d o er n , h t e ° 7.: time, ha opoieg 4ll4 et e t e 44ll.4.ll a; l c l e sig He then toblific tirl4 ,maile„ or which for ag pre a r in ailed e g i e ny ee artchly ( irn e c a e r. lB26 MOM m i tr ' , *lee s b. lies were n tte J . spring of ten:rola:l causes i Ilmi new i tlutt theism .. Fond ' doubt, so many yew be alently supported t a his vote, but at the ject of charge against me. What had • • me ahem, it potary tenses Have erased, feel that th 4k cenav;u,enees ought to quite sound. same time by tbetiesedegactlhuh mob Mu* 'Viler' 40 select seems, is not to be justified In me. The .- . %matter came also. list, hi,, l o streld Iliadic tour Mcarty ft with puiti , are awl roue than to that t o pi c which le hares .m tell= this _ House and _ th e of accusation was to __ be kept beck Is bad Iworldev ci rcu m s p ection. 1 c o uld avoid all _ "pavane ? Of hiyttc 0 . - lige. i their vices. country. He__tbneetheie ossuary to Ids decimation in be- prevailed evetemee lffill, and not did at comsat to csrry_lt by pi meal; and though as one virtuo. We half of : the Cid by mattes also, do. 4. was ',staunch ad. but even ahem this difference of tools time ita *Avows' feu othermee, f thine they Om:1d hove been S by mother, hermit, by bath education and convict:am, to the church of did n o t naturally present itself, 111116 emetell, cis. cured of that fob, 'by their experience of what becomed in 8118; is, ere en- Dogland. gime, Mae.) The Limped Milieu (Dr. Lethingeno) initiated. I regret to be obligedth MOP a of this Moe. then every thing mold be had for the Citbolici except parlisreent. voice? He Mee •it essential to intredece kis observations with the I state that only which is matter of Melee? ; and Mien a gonethl and as that 4144 not also twit:Med, tbe whole Ire* toomo up—: If he had tome of faith t and be expressed himself accusation of this . kind has been made, the only Intro math Is thrown op in a pet. I did eat object to it attic time : ~ !r, front t character. More the be said he was cses t h e Mash of by a detail of particular acts. The obstacle is whidel havelethare that moment the Catholic question began to lobe gerund. the ordinary kreast le, meld in the affections OE , tr. •'/Se ilk pinere et Caro . h6bll,Fits !rferii ;" •i 10 14 character I The were held by . the late Ate both these occasions I resisted to move Me thief the and , Su. if there etes•anything wearing to - iejure and to rna- it, it My Hon. Grattan. . Wiry MI lie prawn . in &nem 4 Aibject. e had to determine to abstain firm/ AIM* oh =ii die was that Csabolie.Alsociatiomwhicb we aza tow 'smiting to put tently on his the Catholos, the AM eglimite, in setthig ill the_pteamble obstacle remained , —a lesson which was taught*, me by Mr. Pitt, down, that 4e may give the Calbolics rah. play.. Ilut, Sir, I a the 4 He would the ce m a ge r e_ - 'hat th e Protestant and to which I strictly adhered.' In 1819, Me. Port al was in Catholic Association remove itself, luta i, ;yid_ center doelde ‘ivan. but he is a chime of leas and inviolably office : two things happened in this year, which determined ludas to taps on the Catholics; and thus, liem a toc j ell iMught wit% evil, act on his .cried • and MAW Mehe . t, lbs 41.4.18 4 i0n tig the the course I teas to take—the Regencrrestrictioris Imre removed, beneficial consequences will arise.. I.Tl4*Right Hon. Gentleman 1 : (Cheers and Ca th olic claims theMite.llo yr!, • yto otogro the Church, and with their removal the obstacle h a d ceased which bad in d uc ed . _ sa t _ down amidst cheering from all side* of thy f iollSe.] . . . . • -Al