The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-05-12 00:00:00

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Lord MELVILLE adverted to.the state of prephratinn iq which he found the papers he had itowed,for on the tattle. It w.,tull lint be pnssihle that the whide of them could be pro= dared before 'rue-day or Wednesday. lie has, therefore. desirrie s s to defer his *potion respecting the einployineut of vhip. of war as trAnsporb. till Thursday uext, which day ;heir Lardihips were vitinitioned to titiciel. - • AFFAIRS OF SPAIN. The Martinis of LANSEILIWN E advellai to the prodac- Cop of sisitte papers ispon Wig subject, which had bent moved foe yeptectiy by a Noble Lard (Iloringiliml, nod thought it nould ha' mom advisable to have ell the paper, c.oineyted with viasahject before their Istrdshißs, before he brought fdyward' his inntion respi.ciing the tote campaign in Spain. Ile t herc !bre w'i,tied to defer theinotian of n hieli he had giv6l notice .for Monday till Friday next, fur which day he moved that I . lor Lordships be suru•sone , l. The irl of LI V ERN)CM, in the absence of his Noble Friend (Niargois WelleSlev), thou4:it pro'pet: to observe,' that the papea to which the Noble Nl.tryais hadalluded were not at air considered as e44ential to the discos•• of the motion of which the Noble Nlarquis hid given notice. tie thilreford but no wish that the maims should be deferred Oil that ac conut, Time Marqui4 of I t tNiIIOSTNE utiderstool that ns the pipers moved for yesterday were eltpe.sed to be produced Imtwedi4tely. hod hi he understood Many Noble Lidds Were 4esiro4s to have the whole of the stibject before the Itiule, before they tintereil twon the discuss:on of it, it was his wish to defer his motion till Friday,' for is It ica . dity a new order \MAO& out. TRI CLERGY. Lord 001.4iNet, after tuuvitig the 'Qrder of the flay, rose to, submit certain resolutioits to their LordAhipa't }loose, of Which he hod given podia. Re conceived, that this, his iniquition, must have been miscogceived by many Noble Lords. Ile had been represented as bringing for. ward ;moo ntimatroui proposition, as intruding, iq tows treasure, on the solAcism sanctoruin, and as profanely reuturing to touch the Arch.Chati. minor, tlitaughri t were only to prevent its falling. . 77 14 bad no swill intention. Nu man respected more than hp did the sicced right of property, whether vested in an individual or in any gtriteral body of pmts. fieh when the country laboured limier such severe burdens, he thought that every class of his Majesty's subjects sheep take their share in thorn, anal thus alleviate the 4eneral pres. sore. It hail been solemnly recommended in his Majesty's Speech at the cotielusion of the last, 4 IN the beginning of the present tiession, to make a provision fur the inferior Clergy. He was ready to allow that no description of njeu were more me. ritudotis, Rut were there no other means of re. tiering their distrestc than by increasing the load of taxes which already pressed so hard upon the people ? Was there nut a fund in the First Fruits and Tenths, originally destined for their use l which might pow be made available for that purpose without 'flying any additional fierdeu po the shoulders et the people at large ? The Noble Lord then entered into Itn historical examination of the origin and destioqtioq of the Fir,t. Fruits and Tenths from the time of Henry VIII. down ;Roust to the present time. Ile particularly in sisted on an act of that Prince, which authorized the jsspiug of a commission whine duty it seal to re-survey and rp.value annually the clear improve(' amount of the First Filial tied Tegthsof Bete. !ices. This law had never been repealed, and might therefore be pot in force. By enforcing that Oct, an ample fund might be provided fur relieving the distressed state of the 'Jeerer Clergy, a fund to which indeed they were originally euti. ;led, although of late years it vras s possessed and eljoyed by the superior Clergy almoo exclusively. 140 Nu* Lord then traced down the history of this fund through the reigns-of Henry the Eighth, Edwerti theSialli,, Elizabeth, Anne, and Guoroc the first, inferring from all these different Acts a right of the inferior Clergy 41.6 e full enjoYMent of these funds, The . Noble * Lord conelatled by moving eight resolutions, live of which were mere ly historical position; restlpg op tfie Acts he had Tinted ? an three more, as practical deductions iog to be inferred from these Acts. • The Archbishop. of PAN rl:RgUltY could net help referring to some observations which had dropped from the *A de Baron un a former ucca. stag. They were certainly expretsed lot very • stroug and energetic language. 'The inferior Cler. gy were represented as defrauded and rohh:•,l ok what really belonged to them by the aupetior Clergy- . --but where was the proof ? The Noble Baron has quoted a variety of facts to prove Lis as,citions ; but, xs the most material of these acts, lie had omitted (unintentionally no doubt) the most material clause. He alluded to the Act of 1704, and to the ciause Which provided, that In all revisions of the property arising from the First Fruits and the Tenths, the amount' should t! , .: taken frog] what it was originally stated at. if this ground then was to he taken away, as ; , Isly it should be taken away, from the assertions .f the Noble Baron, the whole yf his proposi. ti uityst fall to the ground—they have oothil else to stand upon. The LORD CHANCELLOR. argued at longth against the positions amid interpretations pot upon Acts of Parliament by the Noble -Paroti, and con -1:11.1cd, that if lit fact such, an Act as the 26th of Henry VIII. could bg considered as still in force, it should be repeated. Lord GRENVILLE differed furl) his Noble Frieutl in the tleductions drawn by him from the Acts he had referred to, and contended that it was not only for the inteioat of the indivislualp who bad • . • • - • - embraced. a certain profession tht all theetkilvan. taps attached to that prof:cesium should be pre tieivetl,• but that it wac also tho interest' of the "eountrjr in which that profession was exer cised.. Lords II ARROWBY and REDESDALE em. • kratied the same opinion. • 'Lord 1101. LAND made a short reply, and in acquiescence with the opinion of his Noble Friend, Lord Grenville, proposed withdrawing his Rest), . lotions. • 4 After some observations from, the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishops of London and cht•steg, two of the Resolutions were withdraw* , and the motion the third Resolution was aegis' ..' tived.—Adjourned. • • HoUSg (l' CQMAIONS, MA T T On the, motion of Mr. W. POLE, the Dublin lAospital Silt was read a third time and passed. Mr. 1V CHER FORCE postponed the second reading of the (lverseers' Bill to Toesd,l - Committees on wish Malt and Ways and Means were postponed till ltalmelay. Ott the motion of Mr. WHARTON, the Oil of Vitriol Bill was read a second time, and refeteed to a Cammittee of tile whole House un Mond ty. • On the mtittna of Mr. WHARTON, the Wese-India wailer Bill was read a second time nod' corntsiitted. 'Mr. LUSHINGTON hrthrght up the Itellort of thesEx chequer - Hills Annuity Bill.' The Amendments were agreed to, and ordered to be engrossed. Mr. BYN(i p , Lesentod a Petition from the Market Gni deners of Surry, Kent, Essex, and Al iddlesv; praying un ex emption from'certain Clauses in the Highway Act. It - was Ordered to lie on the table. Sir J,, SINCLAIR postponed the farther consideration of the Report of the Higlilvay Art till this day six month,. Ile moved that the *Report' of the Turnpike Roads Bill he now taken into comideration. the Bill wes.ocdered.to be re contained, manta which Mr. BYNtxlnoved that the Petition of . the Market Gar deners should he referred to this Committee. Time House then went into the saute Coitionittee, when the various Claws were agreed to, and the Report received: The Pith 'Stage Cot eh Bin Went thrObeh a Committee. The Report was ordeied to be received on klunday. • " The LORD AD VQC ATbrof SCOTLAN D obtained leave to bring in a Bill fur Repairing the Ittinds of the Hightail* ami•Bridges of Scotland. He then brought in the Bill, which Vias . • read a first time, aud orslered to be read a second time un Wednesday next. ' Olt. ABERCROMBIE, as he caw the Lord Advocate of Scotland in his . place, took the opportunity of tasking' him if I he intended fothlling the solemn pledge be gave last Session of bringing in a Bill to Amend the ilatikrupt Laws of Scotland.' The LOUD ADVOCATE of ... SCOTLAND, In stated thut he certainly had, been called on to Make thil pledge, hut bad refeged. However, he wished it to rte under itood that he had'received such' information as led hits to think that the People of Scotland would •be more pleased if those laws, with a few eticeptions, were allowed it) remain as they are. 51r. FOSTER brought up the Annual Account of the ti ceus'o* paid by Lottery (I,Sices Keeper; in Ireland. Ordered to lie on the table. lie then moved that the House should re solve into a Committee, on .Mooday, to coOsider the Irish Sugar Drawback Act, which wassiardered. FOREIGN. EURO-. - • The Rouse went Into a Comtnittee 4111 foreign Silica. • Mr. ROSE moved the follbwing itescdetiou—" That the Chairman should ttttt ve the Houle for lea,ve to bring In a Bill to iiiishibit the I utportatibn of Foreigil Silks, mud to Intirease thtt sluares of officers In seizures." Sir J. NEWPORT had uo objection to the Resolution s ' which was agreed to.. Mr. LUSH IN GT(AN accordingly moved the House, and obtoined leave to bring in the Bill. ' Committees were appointed rtliake into consideration the Militia Estimates of Great Britain and Ireland. Mr. GR.ENFO.I. gave notice that he would on Monday move tar t7opiei of the Corresentitletwe betweed his Majesty.. Ministers and the- Cotainisamtloi of Assessed Taxes, bn the a . subject of retrospective surcharges. Alderman COM BE brou,ght tip the Report the Embez ? ,l zleinent ; the Amentlinents were ordered t ol e engrossed, and the Bill to he read a third time on Monday. Sir J. AISTRU (HER. brought the Report of the Com miller. on East India Adair*, which was ordered to be Itrinted. ' • • The Foreign Linty! Bill was read a third time and pawed. Mr. it. `l>f A RD jtodfroned his maim; relative to lac Navy Estimates and additimed Seamen, till Monday. Mr. SHERIDAN slated to the liouitohat bn consequence of a mittsber of 'other SpaniSh Papers being necessary . to be aided to those heat:rad) Mb i•lied for,he intended postponing It h motiant on 'this 4iMject. On looking Order Book, he ' found the longest day he could fl x oil to be Friday seratiet, ow which be 'Mould positively bring the question forward. SIR V. BURDETT. • • , The SPEAKER acquainted the llouse that he had received a !Ater frum the Earl of Moira, hich, If it was the pleasure of the House, • would be read. • The Iftfer •was in substance as follows : , M. James's place, May 8. " SIR—Mr. Garrott', my Solicitor, has represented to me a circumsbuice, whiCh 1 think inceinient on the to impart to I yea. It is, that Sir F. Burdett lilts commenced a suit io the Cmirt of King's Bench against me, as Constable of the Tower, for illegal detentitip in prison. Ido not write this for the purpose of soliciting your interference,' as I have al ready directed my Solicitor to defend the action, on the grounds of the warrant of the Speaker of the blouse of Com mons, and that of the Secretary of, f , I am * Sir, itc.all . MOIRA." The Letter was . cred to be entered on the Journals. REPORT OF THE COMMITVEE OF PRIVILEGES. Mr. nixrgi GIDDY brought up the Report of the Committee on the proceedings had 1114 to Iris bad on the notices, &c. of Sir F . Bartlett. The Clerk then proceeded to read the report, I .which was of cousideruble length, and to the fol. • ;spying purport ; After recurring to the eyents of the hit April, the report proceeds to enumerate the various sub. jects of its consideration, namely, the Speaker's Warrant.; Sir F. Burilett's fetter; the report of the Scrjeant at the 'air ; the notices, process, ant) writs on the speaker and Sorjeant, w hr , ch latter, the deport obsfryes, are subscribed with the name. of this, ,Splieitor, and are for the purposo of bringing ac a restion in a Court . If I,ar the conduct of ilia floupe. It then states the wish o f the Committe to cOlect as nearly us possi o hir, in or qu view, this importaiLt subject, stud to prim., from Parliamentary History, that the righetif the Iluute jci committing to prism? for breitch of prt.• Allege is well foutttled on many illtances aud Pte. cadeots, to state the various plueeeqings at Jaw, anti link. peltt i towle4ped analogy -to tho pair u „tn • van! . . . questiott. `These tatter topics, however,would be reserved for soother report. The Committee aauld confidently state that the practices adopted were usual, and - founded, Mk the instances which arose from the proceedings of Chyle' . Y. and, H. when their inuivations were resisted and, re sented by *House of Com Mon s; w hi c h filially agol direbily led to the Bill of, RiglitV." The tom.. mittee did nut hesitate to say, that • an . krticle of the Bill of Rights directly extended to the present case. ' On thy subject the law of. PartiaMent is especially declared in the. rolls of (Anil VIII. when it appears it was expedient always to allow full costs and punishment fur the protection of its privileges. The report then cites the case of Sir J. lilliot in 1604; and then . that of J. 'Fo.pham in June 1679, who' Was• .i Serjemit at Arms, and against ithowt,', hi. dildiiirgng the cpatmands of the House a - judgment bad been treated; on this the House resolved, that the Judges of the King's Bench had been guilty of a breach of privilege; they were accordingly called-to the Aar, when Sir F. Pemberton, and Sir F. Jones, stated that the House was right in its decision. The report, at ter mentioning a few more minor cases; goes on to state the conduct of the Housela various ltro. ceedings of arrests • against l'llkinbers - and their servants ; on this subject it cited the opinion of Lord Chief Justice De Grey, which was, that if ' a Member or a Member's servant was arrested, it was the privilege of the House that he ihould be' immediately delivered. The Committee had nm) , Instances of this before them; however, in the • iltli and 13th of William and' Mary, this privi lege was - curtailed, as also s in the reign of Queen Anne ; still'it applied only•to delivery frutri at. rest, and did not limit the rights of the House. with respect to breach - of privilege. It appeared to the Committee, that instituting an action against the House was a breach of privileges, 'and that .• eevera; instances are on record . of ; Kocceding nut only against the party who institutes the action, but against the Solicitor. The report conducted' by'stiggestiug it as expedient, that the House should give leave to the Speaker and Scrjeant to appear in Court to explain 'the grounds on which they hid acted; MIA to plead in abatement of ju. risdiction. - Mr. DAVIES G IDDY , before the motion for the' reporilying on the table, thought it necessary to slaw to the House the three modes of conduct, either of which It might pursue. First, he would have adyised a prosecution at law to be entered I for a breach of the privilege, of the house, • had there * . on looking foto the i lotaroals, itppettred a' 'Pall of this nature' chalked out by the .Con-" stitution. The second, and 'the' better yay, would be to commit 'le prison, for breach of privilege, the rum' who had Served the pro. cess. That this power has belonged iova variably to the House is evident; but if, in' the present instance; it was unwillitig to exert that ' present instance; it w unwilliug to exert that' iowcr, at the aim time it should be understood it Was within its reach. However, the House would decide upon this; The third mode would be, to direct a Court below to institute Pleatr o r. With respect' to this; lie avished to suggest' o the .house, that if ir should' thitiVright to allow the Speaker nail Serjeant to plead, they must either plead qn abatement of jurisdiction 'or in bar.- The latter would require some time, but if the foraier .was adopted no time would be lost. Ile understood that to-morrow was the last day of hearing such Ipleas. —Ile moved that the Report should lie on. the Wile, • ' • ~ ;.• • • ' Lcials d MILTON 'observed, 'that no one could sit silent after hearing the conclusion of thelion. Gentleman's speech. lie understood that the ob. ject of the Report was to defend the action which bad betel instituted against the II mise. If the SPeaker • Were' to appear in such - a 'sititation, .0. the 'Court were to proceed with the action, the House should consider the situation in which it would, be placed. We are.' about, said the No. biiLOrd, to defend an amigo) in an inferior Cel'irt,' when we know that the only appeal is to the Houle. of Lords . ; the consequence resulting from' this is, that our privileges are to be decided on by , that noose. 'Was this House now to'give up the atliantageS it had obtained ire the case °l '. the AY lesbury 'erection, and trace back the path it had proceeded in fur a century ; Whatever might be pone ' with the report, he considered of inferior j daoment; but he entieated Gentle Men 'to consiqee 'the fatal consequencei which 'may ensue if t his 'doctrine is acfolited. Wore the privileges of the :House'of Comihons to be overturned in the Court of King's Bench P Were th'ey to be then frittered' siva) , ? He 'Overheard a Noble Lord near him (Lord Pulhestunc) call those privilegei illegal,. but he would maintain thtly were not so' .1/ear, hear! a —they were founded' on the law of th e . laud, 'a nd if permitted thus to be attacked and. taken away one after ;mother, those privileges * which the country was pristected, wouldsoon ' case to exist. Granting thii one of 'these 'pri. i Tileges was 'improperly used ? was the Ifonse on that ac6tifist to give up one of 'the !greatest safe. I guardli it sand the nation goasessed ? Ile hoped that Providence would avert the day, tha; the! Speaker of the House of COmpon's should. 4p, pear a pleadet at the bar'of the Court of Rinses; Akita-41s might their privileges be said to . A t an end, Lord FoLimrpris said, that he should not I)Ose offered himielf tee the atterttlen of the House Io tliii ,sage of 'the diseossion, if it were nut for the 'tosoil in which his Noble Friend had advert-1 ed 19 f p i rt l iular expression which he lied hament. ed to lite: lie differed from the opinion ofloe 1 Noble Friend, that there was no case mu which illsi.! . . • - . . • gal privilege might not be assumed and ex rested by that House, and become tkesubjest of dise.assi on in the Court of liing's, Bench. Did his Noble Friend mean to argue that nu tine for such a re ference coulti come? l i f it were his Noble Friend's doctrina that the privileges of that House rested upon precedent, wuald he push tho•te privileges to the full extent 6( 'the pitscedents ? Would. he _press his doctrine to this extreme, th'at •tillattirett might be t l he ininstiee or ottpretsion belonging to such an 'exercise of privilege, the subject must soh . mit, and could have no 'remedy inta Cotist of law ? [ficar, hear, from Mr. tiptoe.] . S.iti)pom! - that House should order a man to be committed f , :r a stated time—to pay a tin e , or tpsaffetaal di-giaceful . pun . 's:moot, .woulol the 'loiterer have no remedy at law ? Soppose . the Souse should, for an Miegeil trioletion of privilege, order a man to be placed on hArsebnck with his (ace towards the horse's tail, and so led to a pillory at Charing-cross, and from thence toNthvgate to beconfined for life,would the individual so suffering have no remedy ?-..-: Vet for flies': things there were precedent. on the Journals. Now, if Jones were to havestiffer. ell as he had stated, was`his Noble Friend ot opi nion that he could have no remedy ? Yet each was the tendency of the doctrine which he had advan. cell. Fur it, peradventure, the House should rt.. p es t such a precedent, the suif:rer, could have no remedy • were his Noble Friend's iLictritie correct: But the doctrine was quite monstrous. Yet if the (loose, in taking any step on 'this occasion, stiou'd plead against the jurisdietiliti of tie iourt of ;my • upon the actions leferred to, it cupid -only mart such a plea upon the misinteit.loce of this monstrous doctrine. Fur his part, he wis in the case inune. diately 'under consideration quite. adverse-to the in. terference of the House. Ile aiiald either wish' that the matter should . be ;lowed to proceed ac. curding to the due course of 'Mw; But yet lie *as not inclined to qu tire' with the rebuinineintation containe4 in the Report of t h e t.:*Csoisuitiee, al. though - he could pet coccur in many of Vie' cOn elosiotts which it drew-f . ront the eases referred tti. For initanee c heitiuld never subscribe to the ayser. thin . , that the acts Which gave rise to thin diseuslion were' at all within the Meaning of that, article .of the Bill of Rights which had been voted. 'That arlick ram. 41 to acts done within that•lloose ; find were The acts then under discussion of that•tle.• scriptiop ?—Ditl the breaking open of, Sit Fran. cis Burdett's house .conic within that description a The case of Elliot and Holien is, as R ')sulktil .be rememhered, ait it refareitii 'to . Item • dodo within . 'that House, and by no means Analogous to the case of Sir 'Francis OurtletA. •Yet the tipOiniii._ tee seemed to Put it as if it bore a •complete aliqlogy. It would be else rememhered, that there was a material point connected with that case which the Committee entirely omitted to. police. . For the lltitiseitself sued ont'a Writ of. I t rror in the House Of )(,orris, in order to reverse the decision :or di6 eourt of Law--- , Therefore. the House WU • . 'content to bring the discussion of its privileges . before that tributill t _ • at the, idea of submitting e . , to which s' many • Gentlemen seemed to startle on this occasion. There was' another omis. Sion also in flue Report, for on allotting, to the precedents, it declined to 'rote the argument of Justice Pemberton, which it would be fur the ad- Vantage of the !pine to read, before it Quo/ tic. , aoconign this importaat question;' As to the ad. vice ofthose e•litlenten woo,woettl urge tic , pit p. '.priety of denying the jarisdiution of * 6)03: of law upon this question, lest pleading in b.st Should let down the 'consequence of the House, he begged them to reflect a little more calmly upon the all b. jail: The law of Fatliement wet, according to a favourite expression from Litrd coke, part of the law of this land ;" tint let it bi.f considered that this part could not-0%14110t tq be regarded its its. • remount to eieu t other laq' t • . • • • Mr. wtarr EAD rose With a v s iew to sap ' • gest for the considerncion of these Gentlemen, W liU appeared willing to enter into the general merit:tut the subject, 'that the only question helot:0 the House was, 'whether the Itepo i rt of the Committee should be alloWed to lie on the table ? With res v peet to the course to be ouriued• upon Chili odcia. tiitni, it wascertaiuly incutithent upon tiliepartigs, both ministerial and legal, who hiur 6 , 11104 minsideiing it with the Committee, to propose that ' course. It was for them to inform the flouie, to in. .teructits igeorancO, and not to wait 4ti catch the feelings or to horrow frUM th? intellects of others. But his priociPal motive in rising was to giite the debate a proper direction, from illicit it appeared to deviate. Fur • however Gentlemen might differ as tiethe questiott or privilege, or the best rpodo of inaintaininOt, he must Oink' the dispessipn Of that difference quite irrelevant to the 411000 before thellouse, to wluiti he apprehended there could be no objection. , Mr. W. WI NNE "greet, with the _doctrine of the lion. (.4mtleman (Mr. 'Giddy). lie las of opinion that Whatever'related to the priiileges of the flo l u n se ili s is ho o i r i i l4be il)lefiect discussed[ could he idi rh ee ttn no l nu where cut,. e else. In to reason pr 'jostler,. e then quoted• Ilia ee'se of. Mr. While, *h o in t ip year 16pe, hod been fi ned 1060 1 . fur thulg gqilty of a lireaell of privilege. It is cerniin that ! th u e t -.oust! mjit o t $ 1 ,, , v0 nbusesi•its • privilefes, in one oi twin IIISI.i!flfil, bull it did not thereferefollow, that. it sliould totally, re sign them. • • Mr.. ft' Ux„ he•se'id, e 3% Of prioilist ' sitat it was abstiitl to 'tripe 9/1 the eatr% sties of pii. vilege, which • WiV . e . r nicely liaraliet.d. t• 14 wincipte yfr• th!biiior tug' the priyii, gi g o f ISartia. iiieuf was torttpia•ged,lhe Kin 'tinge/ ortlitr 'the aj rte i.atin i t o of 1414' in'cl,,,. intro s t'i ! , tp 1 el% lit 1.; itue. it...) 0 '4,or . iiud 0.44 lb is iiiiiia* e '3' • ' or . . , , 4.Ku. . hat the . . . . S r . , • ' , . 7 Y. "LA4' • - -~:..