The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-07-04 00:00:00

Tilg STATESMAN: gulatti oflices of the nature of which he:, and he imilievaa . the House, were-wholly ignorant. Lord - HOLLAND must support. the Bill, meroly , on account of the stage in -which it was. Theob servations of the Noble and Learned Lord were so strong as nett() be resisted, as far as , tbe details were concerned; but they (lid not go in the smal!est,de gree to affect the principle. None but those, there fore, 'Oho said -that the principle was wrong, and that Sinecures ought not to be abifiliShed, could con sistently oppose the Bill in its present stage: Earl DARNLEY was of the same opinion. He thought that no Administration that refused to recog... vise the abolition of Sinecures as a principle, could carry on the business of thecountry to advantage at the present moment. Earl GROSVENOR thought it unnecessary; for him, after what had fallen from his Noble Friends, to trouble the House farther. He only hogged it might be Observed, that not a word had beet( at tempted to be said in opposition to the principle of ' the measure. . The House then divided, when the numln - rs were, For the second reading now . . . 8 Against it -• Majority against t..c Bill —.27 The Bill is accordingly lost. The Bills brought from the Commons were we rally, read a first-time.—Adjourned. second time. A division then took plate ) wiles Oil numbers %%ere— the greater part of the inhabitants of teat country belonged, and the Catho:ics of Ireland forming a , C 04 0 ,1111 • /0 large majority of the population of that country , it li Not Contents • ' • • 3l was evident, that a very large majoiity of the pope- I The Bill was accordingly thrown out: lation of England, Scotland, and Ireland, were non- !. Oil resoitering tho House, we found • • • conformists. He trusted; therefore, that he should' i Lord HOLLAND upon his degs.—He begged to not hear one argument against this Bill used on for - ask the Noble Earl opposite (Liverpool), whether, sner occasions, that the majority might to hind the by rejecting the Bill brought in by Earl Stanhope, he minority in matters of religion.' Proceeding• in the meant it to be understood that nothing would be done quotation of old Statutes, his Lordship dwelt much tie Government with regard to the disabilities under upon the injustice and oppression of those enact- which the Dissentetslaboured ? if so, he should feel menu, the object of which was, to compel persons un- it to be his duty, however unequal to the task, to r a heavy penalty to attend cettrch on Siam:lays and submit to the House some proposition upon t he sub- Holidays ; and not merely this, but persons were ! ject. rendered liable to a penalty of 101. for every servant l' (lid not go to church, for every vi The Earl of LIVERPOOL replied, that he felt in their house that e ' i not the least difficulty in informing the Noble Baron, sitor also, and for the servant of every visitor. After "that he was thoroughly convinced that some altera. quoting several other enactments in vartoes old sta- i tion of the existing laws is absolutely necessary, and tutes, enforcing sit!' snore oppressively the other Ihe would add, that the subject had most seriously provisions pn the seem su'ijert, he proceeded to ad- I occupied the attention of the Cabinet, and of himself duce a variety of instances of absurd ennantents in ; Old statutes, amongst otle , rs seine in the reign of individually. Every person at all acquitin t e d w ith the subject, would be aware that many difficulties Eliza( et;:, that certain kinds of fish should be eaten (la) s, and that the : on garlic ells - fish should be II were to beevercome, but his Lordship hoped in t he a - , course of a few days' (although he by no Means could eaten 1. sfe : e tasting meat, without fraud or cezenage. i pledge himself) to bring forward a Bill to apply a It was also eleu.tc(l, that flesh should nut be eaten oe i particulat days a:snout a licence. In the reign . of: remedy to the evils now complained of." James I. it ea , . cins.:tod that no persons should enter- I . Lord HO.LLAND observed , that whatever objec. bons he might feel to some of the details of the mea- tain evil Tints, or feed them with fi sh. fl esh, or ye- •, sore just dismissed, yet no Bill to be •proposed the . HOUSE OF COMMONS; getables. Another curioes enactmcet eats, th at a Noble la r k would satisfyhis man :Arndt! be deemed guilty of bigamy oiso married', e min d , unless I were s Mr. Irvin', from the office of the Inspector-Gencral of Im 't b y 1 • founded on dm same principle. i ports and Export+, presented at the Bar an Account of the Du two wives, or one widow. Another enactment in- j .. - ! ties on Foreign Williber, for the year 1811.-Orderod to lie on mtanced was, to prevent women from leaving this : - SINECURE BILL. the table. country because they were popishly inciitteds nisi Fart GROSVEN OR mese to move thesecood read- i The Committees cm tie Frame Work Knitters' and the Army Lorti.s:dp a!so dwelt much upon:the subjectof ex. • lug of the Sinecure Bill.—His Lordship feltit never- : !rt‘t o tt a g i s, of Supply and Ways and Means, were postponed communication, iestuecinga e variety of enactments , i • sary to preface his nsotiim with a few remarks upon til l : The [Deaf Militia Amendment, the Fait India Troops, the aid GII.IOIIS of the Church, reipectistail, for the pur- the subject/ and in the fi rst place he thought that Poor Return, and the Starch Bills, pas.ed through Committees, pose of shewing their absurdity and ° injustice. He : some expiates-non was duo to the countr y , of thede e : un T d i t ie he A lle nc i t m ion rts were ordered to be received to.toorrow. Duty Bill was ordered to be read a second time thought that the repeal of the enactments he had ley which had taken place since this Bill was Web- !on Tuesday neat mentioned would do no good,. whilst the power .of duced into the House ; with a'view to put an end to i Sir F. BUR DETTpostponed his motion respecting Mr. Flet cher till serene:clay. the Ecclesiastical Court remained with respect to et- it, he now rose to advance it another stage. ,It was . : The Scotch Assessed Tastes and the Irish Stamp Duties' Bill communication. He related an anecdote of a Noble a much more clifficalt task to anticipate objections to: werereaci a third time and passed. Lord going to an eminent painter to desire him to the Bill than to answer them, because it was so bine- 1 LANCASTER GAOL. paint a fool, and the mistioner proposed was this, to ficial in its principle; and so comlilete in its details, I Sir F. BURDETT began by observing: that it paint a man getting over a park paling set oche that he could scarcely imagine that any solid-argil.; would not be necessary for him to detain the House tenter hooks, whilst an open gate was near meet could be urged against it. The principle had ' very long, though the subject was one of the highest him by which he might have entered. lie been supported by the often-quoted authorities of importauce, as it respected the safety of every man would propose to paint a rank ideot its Coke and Hale, and by the provisions it woukl be in the kingdom, but more especially Close un fortu the following manner: to represent him getting seen that a vast number of useless places were hbo- nate persons who, for their crimes, were placed uts over a peek paling set with tenter hooks, while he- fished, one-twentieth part of which were absolute der the protection of the law ; and those still more fore him was a wall fifty feet high which he could : sinecures, no official duties being discharge& It unhappy wretches who, waivers s ime, were impri tot get over, and on one side an open gate by which • might be said that the system of pensions proposed to soned for debts, frequently incurred through necessi he might enter without tialiculty and avoid the wall. 'be substituted, was unpopular eto this he would reply, ty. This latter class seemed mere peculiarly sub- Now what he meant by this was, that the paling se t ! —lst, that it was not so unpopular as the system of •ject to rigoroes treatment, as the gnoless had .iii in with tenter honks was the statutes he had quoted, I sinecures ; and 2d, that pensions never could be un- terest in their confinement, and set a Eric.: on , their the high wall the ecelesiastical•,juristliceion, and the ! popular, if properly applied to the reWard of maim- indulgencieg. 1:e almost . regretted tint the natur e . open gate was his Bill, contaiaiag a short enactment j rious services. It might be insisted that the Session of his question *mil . not safer him to move an declaring the liberty of relisious opinion. The sub- i was too far advanced to allow this Bill to be come- E nquiry into e t`•- Gaols throughout the Kingdom; jeet of uniformity, his Isnrilship illustrated by an 1 i niently passed.—lle should only answer, that it but as Isis attention had been called to Lancaster, h'e anecdote of the chnr,.: clock with four faces in Vete- , could be never too late to accomplish an object of held it to be his duty not to confine his information 'RIM, Cavendish-square, which on passing one day ! the utmost importance. she opposition uniformly to his pocket, hut to present it to tits IL use. In he looked up te, 'e observe the hour, and observed, . nilorded by Ministers to this measure arose from ahisduty ' sedid un pleege. himself, thus per f orm ing that on one of the faces it was fire o'clock; but hay- fixed determination on their parts, to resist every to the truth of h t e stn, etteels wide.. he should pre ing an angular view, he saw that the second face species of Reform, not only its this but in every sent; the responsibility must rest on his asformers : pointed at a gamier past five; thinking this very : other system of policy: it was to this they owed but he trusted that the House would think that he • oit dd, looked at the third .h L face, and found that to air present stations, notwithstanding the claim would not have been justified in nut bringing for-' Point a hit' past five ; this was odder still 2 Ihe ! the country made, that men should )e provided more ward such s • charges. lie heard , ' ' el from looked litUel.- looked at the fourth nem, and found it was th ree i a dequate to meet the arduous circumstances of the the most competent atelsoritv, Olt if any gao l l was quartets post five. Advei tietz to a variety of enact. ; times. ' - superior to another for its regelar and humane ma. , Talents respecting the h sok of Comm:m Proyrr, hist 'fhe question was then put that the Bill be read a nage t h at gao l . meta, Lordship oh4erved upon the ditforencrs that existed • secost ! time. • • the general goodcharacter of Mr. Higgins Du la bi the copies of that book, as ;.iilitishesi by the MO- ' ' file LOlaD CHANCELLOR did not think the not to have any weignt te prevent an investigation eeriities of Oxford and Cambr;dr I , stating that they present a fit occasion for discussing the respective into alleg ed facts. W hat he !sad to state m was divisi aounted to tooo and odd. Ile (Noted an opinion ' merits of rival Administrations into inistrations ; indeed, the subject , ble three parte; as it nth the Magistrates, of Lord Maiisfw:tl, delivered in giviug judgment in had already been sata,fs.ctorily decided. The Noble the Gaoler, and the Coroner; which latter officer en appeal in that Douse. statigg that eonscience.was Earl had asserted that she present Ministers were uni- was not regarded with that attention which his int tht itireenublato human law, or contro e met e e y t ate , form enemies to all kinds of reform; such was by p " ortant duties, involvin g every man ' s safety, d e - . man tritlentab. , . and urged this in support of his Bill,' no means the fact : they opposed innovation, until it :ma ded. The lion. Baronet then observed, that t h e ° bi te( o f t ai t qj wa s , to give :away o f eoesc i ee t ee was fairly proved to be beneficial ; and refused to de. heM ag istrates had shewit an undue haste in their and the right *of plicate jedgmcnt in matters of reli- ! stroy a system which for ages had secured happiness, • i e ndeavours to exculpate ' Mr. Higgins ; and he corn glen without itsterrnption. His Lordship avowed ! until t were established that mare happiness by a mooed at great length on the resolutions entered in- Mattel a decided enemy to toleration, because it im- ' change could be produced. With regard to the Bills to by the Magistrates at Lancaster on the charges pre- plied that certaie iteLvidusls acre prositteci, as a' before the House, the object of it was now obvious , i (erred against the gaoler. yheir mode of investiga matter of favour and sufferance, to at orship their i though the measure itself, in many parts, was , ' tion was 'unfair, and similar to that pursued when treater its the eay they d eeme d proper. It ac- , scarcely intelligible. His Lordship's objection to it 1 he t enquiry was instituted into Coal Bath-fields pri knots hedged the right of those who panted tolera- i was, that it contained hardly a clause that could be I The gaoler was examined separately, and then lien to he', if they eleased, at any time intolerant.: executed; the c.'al title should have been, " a Bill • s. the prisoner was brought out and confronted e ith rcr this reason he had always vendee - meal and bated ; to sweep away the whole power of the Crown, to ; hi m. No wonder that the prisoner should, testier the stattete of the 29th Charles 11. and the Ist Wil- I grant any rakes of any kind, at any time." This i st . uch circumstances, feel too much terror to abide by lihm and Mary, r. 13, 'weans:: they were edit:li To- ' wise measure. as appeared by the schedule, / was to its first statements. This case bore also a tesemblancel leration Acts : in his LortlSl.iii's neieites, what was ' destroy no less than 325 platen. Of these the No- to that of Mr. Aris in another respect : there was a called toleroion on!) riveted the chains of religions ''ble Earl (Grosvenor) had asserted one-twentieth were sort of family compact its the prism' : the sons of the slavery. One Mr. ‘Vat.Smith had lately been dabbling , siikeentes. Where that information was obtained he gaoler Were the attorney and the surgeon attached to in these matters, bur no. with muds success; lie pro" could not tell, mid he would not take for it the bare t h e gaol. This appeared to afford the opportunit y . peed by his Bill a completely new system, at assertion of any mass. Such a Bill as that, the se- of improper connivance. The Magistrates had stated, sing to which, licenees were to be emit t ed, tun on . on l y nand reading of which was now moved 9 never met the that after an examination, the charges were all fri to a man to re see but old wouien were net even . eye of any lawyer that haul lived s since the establish- • • volous and malicious ; and had accused part of the I allowed to say their payers without it—people were meat of law. His Lordship proceeded to shew the isoners of insubordination, while they praised the I not to be allowed to exercise their asters! rights, • folly, impracticability, and inutility of the Bill. Not d rest in cosnin forward to bear manly con duct of the g without permission from Mr. W. Smith. Thequantity • satisfied with interfering with offices in the appoint- , , testimony to the character of the g aoler. 'fhe value I of licences Tesiaired would he innumerable, and its anent of the Crown, it went on to deprive the . of this latter testimony could not he very great, given would have been a great improvement of the scheme, Courts of Justice of those facilities without which by persons under the influence of the gaoler, and i if Mr. Vansittart had thought'of making it a very the greatly increased business of those Courts could among whom, it was stated, - small sums had been fruitful source of revenue, by imposing a Audi) duty , not be can ied on. The fees too, of which the offi- distributed. As to the charge of insubordination, he 1 of ss. or 10s. on every licence ; the produce would cers were to he curtailed, were not, as they ought, , had heard a circumstance that proved, that no great 4 be incalculable, almost as much as the tax proposed to find their way back into the pockets of the op- , care was taken td preserve order in the prison. He by a Learned but Humorous Bishop, who said that pressed, and, in general, poor litigant, but were to understood that oaken boeglis were introduced into' he could point out to Government a mode of raising form an addition to the Consolidated Fund. • There ;the gaol, for the prisoners to wear on the triumph of i a very large e sum of money. Of coutse all the Mi- . was one absurdity, which, above all others, seemed the gaoler over the charges ma l e against him. There' misters were eager' to be let into so advantageous a ' fate to the Bill as it now Stood, and which seemed! were other charges agninst Mr.' Mates ) affecting thel secret; thinking, that they .pe r son a lly- should be re- interwoven in the measure, namely, that on the death , health of the prisoners, of which the principal was, lieved of sense i-e the burdens they. were in commou ' of any one person enjoying a sinecure of WOO ' . the not carrying away the filth and menu& of the compelled to sustain ; but the reverse was the fact a-year, it was in the power of the Prince Regent to gaol for four days; the inn sulierieg coals * to be in , and they were • not a little distapkwitsted, and it drew' grant an annuity to the amount prescribed, not .to tr„,i,„.l • an d bribery clown their faces to an enormous length, when the ! ONE but to ALL the persons in the 'fable A, of wham '.'"---"'; .n the of the turnkey, who , was allowed to extelleete himself on oath. The. Sheriffs Prelate informed them, Mt he suggested a duty up-' many might now be found in that House ;so that in- dI ' sabeen appli••d to; hafteferred the charges to the onAdultery and Fornication. [.4 laugh.]-11is Lord- , stead of a saving, g, agreat increase of expenditure ship would not detain the H ous e l onger , a lth oug h th e ' would be occasioned. As to the nt l' • m awn or reduc- . Mag istrate s ; two of whom he understoodwere relatives . of the gaoler. Another charge ties, that Hayes, one of question was of the greatest, impo r tance. Ile con - don of Cursitots of Chancery, and Illness in t he ' the men who cameroms ard i n testimony or the good cha- j jured the Right Reverend Prelates well tc weigh the Common Pleas he would' venture to assert that net subject, divested of those prejudices which they rm.' ther the Noble Lord (Grosse nor) , e it .00r . , _Or others who . ' r espect of the gaoler, had forged the mune of neddon, a I rurally cast into the scale: he addressed them not •Proposed the Reform in the Offie ' es, knew at all what ralle debtor, and siguetlikto the paper drawn up only on behalf of the Dissenters, hot on behalf oe the nature of the office IS s was. e concluded by erne- 'by the debtors. But th e most serious charge was the Protestant Religious. And for the Dissenters he' big to omit the word " " ' now, and that the Bill be - one contined its a letter - lola to • hiniself (Sir Fa might address address them its the eloquent words of St.. Paul, : recede second time this d a y th ree mont h s . ~ dett), In • a a prisoner foamed Jacob Wa'rdle. It stated, when before Agrippa-ac Would to GOD that not 1 The Marquis of DOUG L X.S spoke fa vour i that horrible cries were heard to proceed from the cell only those, but all who hear use, were not only al- the Bill , • i n of , of one Jens .s Rawlins' who seemed to he testier the' not that be did test Ml' there were objet-' 7 most but altegether such a one as I am—except these t . I unmerciful flogging of t he turnkeys; that his shtielm tonal) e fe atures in it. Let times oil' •'e t a however howls." Eis Lordship -expressed his gratitude to which were no t sinecures I • •? of " murder! kill 'Me!" were Itearal at •intervelm . be St: !irk out Of it, and , Heaven that there was now moue prospect ' that " these Jet• during several hours, till he was removed toe disistit the abolition of those which were really . kends" would be broken.. Be the consequences , wholly sinecures , and i cell whence his tr i es *ere feebler. The it was re ., be carried into effect. what they might, ho would be one o f the first to at.,i Lord I ported the man had strangled himself eith a stock 'REDPSDA LE -could t • tempt their destruction. no agree that the ing, whites, from the comisseti state of his arm., np . . . ~i mere reduction of tire salaries of The question was thee put, that the 'Bill be mad ' !Se Ways led to economy. • Thepublic °einem al- peered to the letter-writer impossible. The pri sown; present Bill' went. to re. was a liinare 4 d_f- A • est o f I 7 eon ne or murder. n •tnqu ••. . . six poor debtors, and six stone-masons • employ er ! i„ work about the prison, sat on the body, but !A ker ,. was no nakedinspection. if there had been such a:, • exposure, two persons who laid him out said that i t would appaar ho was a mass of congealed blood. ii,, would not dilate on this case; but he thou& th.l llouse-would agree with him, that it Wit? PelThs:ity to investigate such a charge. In corroborz;ion 0 • some of Inc minor charges, the lion. !4-trt. read k Jetter from a prisotter for debt, named John Sp e , :icc ,. and attested by Fletcher, Phill:ps, and other psi s ... ens, stating, that John Spencer having:had up• mi.. fortune to break. his lea, the son of the „ anger called in to- attend him ; hut he pi fornie'd e:!. so badly, that the cl.ponent wished to surgeon. This was refuse:l ; and beeaese he to make a modest remonstrance, the prison a . lowance was withdraw:l, and all inf eicour , 2 with : his own son brbitiden. Ile lame ever since, on account of the ill-mac7y. meat of his leg. Whether these facts were ill-founded, he could not think the good cl. - tra,•l ct of the gao:er a sufficient answer to thein, as Mr. Higgins had himself demanded an enquiry i:ito his conduct. The Hon. Baronet then ente. ed long account of Horsham gaol, founding his aiser. tions on the authority of the Rev. Mr. Bingham, who had been tried and acquitted on a favulou • charge of arson at the Sussex Assizes; but in the courw of his, observations he was called to order by Mr. Dent, os the ground of the irrelevancy of the remarks to tae subject before the House. Sir F. Burdett acquiesced in this opinion, and said he should, on a futk r oc. casion, bting the general question of gaols before the House. His object now was, that there should La an Address to the Prince Regent, to order a commis. sion of enquiry into the state of Lancaster gaol.— , Though on former occasions this method of investi. gation had proved to be useless, a though he had reason to be jealous on ac. count of the proceedings of the commi.Nion appointed to investigate the state of the7prisons in Ireland ; yet, as the present Nliais. tern, aulike ary of their predecessors, seemed wil. ling to court rather than suppress enquiry on the sub. ject of distresses and abuses, he would recommnad and more this mode of p ocedure, in full confidence that it would not be abused. lie then maned as Address to .the Prince Regent, for a CommisFion of Enquiry ,into the conduct of the Magistrates and Gaoler, and the state of Lancaster Gaol. Mr. DENT secontbd the motion. Mr. W. BOOTLE went into a minute statement, to sh..w t:iat 6; charge of suffering filth to remain too long in the prison, was frivolous and unfounded. 'The Hon. Gentleman then read several testimonials of the . Magistrates, and the resol u•io n of 114 pri softer% cenOncd for debt in Lancaster Castle, all couched in th , warmentterms of praise of thegaoler's character. Having goge through chic ..i:ain of eel. dence,, which he OR M& it necessary to submit to the House iri tavern- ~f .Mr. lliggias , thegaoler, bethought it necessary to assure tne tiotute. that tile gaoler tas noxious for a most accurate enquiry ; but. though it was by no means his (Mr. Bootle's) wish to shut !lie door against well-founded complaint, yet it shoald be considered, that the time of the House was most valuable, and ought not to be wasted in the investi gation of charges brought forward on loose allege. tions. Lord CASTLEREAGH said the Hon. Baronet had certainly shaped his motion so .as to make it the least objectionable that it could be made ; but in his opinion, if the House were to acc.de to It, the Hon. Bart. and the public would not derive from it that adran tage which was wished and int nded. He thought it would take up a great deal of time to no purpose; and as it appeared to him impos,ible it could do any service, he hoped the lion. Baronet would withdraw his motion, as he would not wish to negative it. Mr. BILOUGHAM said, that having on a former occasion borne his testimony in favour of Mr. Big., gins, the gaoler's, character, he had since, as he foundithis motion was persisted in, made further en quiries concerning it, and had received from several most respectable persons, his particular friends, ac counts which in every respect confirmed the opinions • ha had before given, and shewed that Mr. Higgins was a man of great humanitf and liberality. Ile thought, however, if the House shoeld agree to the enquiry, that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) was mis taken respecting the • commission doing no service; , for if it were granted, the Commissioners might, in his opinion, take notice of all matters - relating to or which had occurred in the- gaol since Mr. Higgins was t he keeper alit, though not specifically mention ed in the motion. C eir tal 10 Sir C. Bk.: iIItELL spoke opine' the motion, and vindicated the Som.,: Magistrates for adopting the prison dress, which lie insisted was usefpl and pro per. Mr. CREEVEY spoke highly in •favour of Mr. Higgins's character, whom b knew well : but said he should vote for the motion. because he Itiought the enquiry world be of admit:lgo to Mr. Higgins. General TARLETON said he wished a.r gation, but he thought this would 1... an incouveni- ' ent time to brieg it forward; he should, therefore, if the motion were now pressed, 'vote against it. Mr. BLACKBUILNE said a few woNls, but in so low 'a toue we could not rlistinetlf 14aFhltu, 00 as to ascertain the exact purport of what he said. . . Mr. BURTON thought that if the Aldtion was agreed to, it would encourage the.bringing of frivo lous. complaints before the House. If any grievances existed in the Gaols of the country, there were may Statutes through which an easy and elf.Ttnal redros may be obtained. Mr. LOCKHART and Mr. MARTIN, of Gal. way, made some observations, they intruding to sup port the motion, in the event of Goverm In not con. senting to accede to institute enquiry themselves. • General TARLETON exp l a iner. Aft.'FOLgY contended. for the necessity of en quiry, and the most expeditious, and 'the more pre ferable mode would be by Commission. Sir F..BURDETT said he would not withdraw hii motion, because the Noble Lord had pot pro posed any thing in lieu of it. • It was true, the stafe• ments on which the motion was grounded were not made on oath, burthey came from persons whom 113 personally knew to be most respectable as to charac ter, and in every way highly deserving the credit of the House. The motion was a general charge to draw on an enquiry into gaols, and which would in volve gaolers, jurors, and coroners. lie had taLcf. ■ - , i