The Statesman. — London, England, 1810-02-20 00:00:00

- t nil had for the persons connected °ien wasnot an. agents, nor was Ihe unmerited in lad so profusely instance, howls. ns, which -not id conduct of in • and slandered Justice—( Neer, Ihe Noble Lord Scott) would , ualitietl manner, I unfortunate in of the former. desirous of know. (he Noble Lord `y anxious with of papers that ,at really existed Noble Lord had Noble Lord's -ion of Aecounis some mispropriett he (Mr. RoseY tction, to• which the severe epithets, 7 other. 4s the a ?torrent of abuse, Ated.within these walls, obseresefiens on the nature flrilship adverted. Arts of nights in more especially . its to which the ould undertake to the Noble Lord, among the whole 'big confined ttv of Pi* Advo. trended with the of Naval Off. the commercial Irred to him that for the special Accounts ; and considerable im, Gentlemen • of the themselves, but end resting sa , thou& proper len than one hun. 'ilai of this sort, ..acies, were now Ile did not mean On the charac rCti to be a most were, however, must enormous but he believed persons employ. 4gcnts them. his own know. irge of a person receiving 62,0001 )r his own bill. le sum was but in which 12301. ,y, Agents, one 'ed by the per. most gross and he did nut niesp . . Agents. Theit l he necessity of that which the competent to aiture of their person lie had er of two Wm, Act passed last Petty Agent. greatest justice mot, who had most villainous passed, but one in. common seaman. \gent was now. penalty arising seaman would that one great Amy of-the na. ollected having from the No. mad lately been' there was not a J. The cases ible precedent ; Act, which the A by heart, had !paring • Memorial, - ,uld hare only niomy of those uts in proposing The Noble "I"l"sumaktlititatellusiiasis _the.. _ . would fix on desultory and find him (Mr. nig the matter must beg leave of the Noble the person into the ac. thskinguislied .r his 'neatest f 4 ord Cuchra►te.— it was proper animadversion wire actually the House baino ilb uf the %end were made / He Lord'i cake 40 purpose •or ieri ted caltionsti ta;ned. if charge against the flare first am.. allegation 4 41 inronnool l he eirsiftee the Noe lie o*. Blilift I~ • ~~ ~ . "• .. . ... t Y • I Jr ' 111 , e'er fonndation the Noble Lord abuses he had lavished on the pert with the Admiralty Court, that Co 1 / 41 . swerable for the misconduct of ag ,1 there the most distant ground for tt vectives which the Noble Lord ha uttered. This. was not the first i ‘1 ver, of his. Lordship's accusatior i I ' , • only extend e d to the characters ant i dividuals, but even went further, the proceedings of a Court of J kear !)—and in these accusations tl had failed. Ho (sir, William pledge hi-nsolf, in the most tango .1 • Vist the Noble Lord would be as Iris preselt undertaking as in any o Mr. ROSE said, he was only de! tog what fort • of information lb . -wanted, es be would be eqtrall , • him to propose the production i might tend to correct any evil that in the.department to which the Ni alluded. If ho understood the • Motion, it was for the prodUctiol • 'relative to a Convoy, iu w hick semi was alleged to exist. Hot hs • would aver, that that transaction • • Noble Lord had applied such s ' 4 , was as unexceptionable as any .. : . 1 Noble Lord had gone into n ,)to I' 1 , which was very unpresedented.witl I I be should make a few obsertigon •.i of the business to which his Lan ; i , Ito hied spent many days and par investigating Navy Accounts, and ! • that particular class ef accounts • Noble Lord alluded ; and he woul • -• say, from his experience, that if t succeeded in throwing abroad am $ • body of Proctors, instead of heir the King's Proctor, the business a I cacy. such a measure would be tat sn cast serious injury to the interests i . cell, to the nation at large, and to I • concerns _of the country. It occur i . somebody ought to be appointed 1 purpose of examining, the Prize ) i . from the want of such a person,. cc ii ' positions were practised, the Ger Navy never taking any trouble t ' relying entirely on their kgents, 1 1 , tistied with whatever the Agents ll P. • to give. At present, *had no less r ;.. , dred and fifty-threafases before hi i. s nine of which, from iariona inatrura submitted for new indgments. It to cast the most distant impartation . ter of Prize Agents, w he believi • i- respectable body of RIM There v • 1 - Soapy instances its which the at ' charges were made for Agency, a this evil was more attributable to pc od under the Agents than to the selves. Many hail occurred within t } • ledge ; aninngst others, the cheep residing at Portsmouth, n Ito, on tee • prize-money, deducted 9,3001. for 1 . • T his Proctor's law charges no . the • /ow. Them was another instance it was received by uric of those petty editing of. which was never receivei . . - • sous entitled to it. In fact, the n . . 1 monstrous ahrises had existed, but hi .. • • ' • - to attribute thorn to respectable A a eeistence, however, fully proved th . - ' sone person being appointed to do I . . • .'' • Gentlemen of the Navy were not I accomplish themselves, from the ni : pursuits . and habits ; and such a p .. '• : '11 . • appointed under the recommendatiot Memb,!rs of that House, In the A Session rrspeciing the licensing of 0' by the Treasurer of the Navy, the g -• had been done to the common scan previously been pleuderetl in the tn manner. Since that Act had passer stance of an attempt to plunder a co had occurred, and the pretended Ag under a prosecution, and from the r front his conviction, the unfortunate ; ' he reimburled for I•is losses—so th . object toward the comfort and secur sal service was attained. He recol read a great deal of what had fallen blc Lord, in a pamphlet which ha• published, in which he believed the single. statement founded in truth. were exaggerated beyond all possib and the author of this very pamphle Noble Lord seemed to have got b charged fifty guineas for preparing for which the King's Proctor won charged fire. Su much for the ecot Gentlemen, who were so assiduous Plans fur remedying supposed evils. - . ' ' *Lout but alsowsado.eirescaltaleot all f •' I)roits of the Admiralty ; but if he ' i some definite charge, sod not make I indistinct accusations, he would 6 t Jose) as anxious as himself to' brill ; i before the House. At present he m • to assert, that every observation t Lord was unfounded. Mr. CIJAILLEi DUNDAS said rippointed by Mr. Rose to examiue coonts of prieei was a gentleman of talents and probity. Mr. STEPHENS rose to enter against the speech of the Noble I d uril lie would ask of the House whether to enter into a wide and unrestricted a upon poblic characters, as if they v under an impeachment, without the . at first filly in possession of the truth livid pointed accusations which were ; . was at a loss to amountfor the Nohlt duet. If makiog a speech, fur ihc • dealing emend him the most unmet srap.his object, that object be had aft ; . , miss desirous of preferring ; char,/ • Court of Admiralty, he Oink! ha tirely considered the nature of Oa 1 . ' 'was shout to make, and of Ow in rid ask for, in order fri 41 . 4ilitli • . ocl to urge. Tbpre was . :44.pe q . . i .._ . - : . . . .... • for which the Noble Lord moved, that would net • contain more matter than the whole Retsort of the Committee of Ingeiry on the Scheldt kapall tion ; so that while these immense pan of in formation remained unread, from the obsturestbsolt' of the Noble Lord, the characters of publlC whom he had so violently aspersed, would labour I wider, the galling effects of his unprecedented at tack., If he understood the-Noble Lartiright, he did not mean to pledge .himself that the 'Pa. 'pers for which lie had 'moved, Mould convict .the 'IWO of the A.dmiralty.Court, or any other person of the fool charge of corruption. But if the Papers were refused, in all prubability their non-production would be quoted as a reason. for his Lordship being precluded from making good his assertions. It was not ten much to expect - that a person, standing forward as an accuser in that House, should at least be able to state the grounds of his complaint in a satisfactory manner to' the House. Su far from this being the case with , the Noble Lord, however, he had nut stated the roam of a single person, and had even confessed I ho had not time to examine into the papers which would be necessary to bear him out in the attack. The House ought at all times to respect the li.. berty of speech ;. but the speech of the Noble Lord was completely an abuse of that liberty. He had got or, and in the most unqualified manner attacked thecharacters of individuals, dc. daring at the same time that he had not e*. milled the sources wbich were to validate his accusations. The Noble Lord was an officer of infinite merit, and possessed of all those qualifica tions which were calculated to render him an or nament to the Navy of England ; hilt it would be much more to his credit and honour, that ho should be distinguished for his success as a novel character, than have the Editors of Newspapers reporting speech of the twin%) he had just deli vered. The Hun, Gentleman Concluded' by de. daring his sincere belief that the pamphlet from which the Noble Lord had gleaned so much infor mation, is, in all respects, a combination of un. 'founded assertions. He did hope the Noble Lord would limit his Motion to such papers as clink! be easily produced to the order of the House • and on their production, he had not the most d istant doubt they would defend the - characters of those persona, whose honour and integrity had hitherto stood unimpeached. Sir CHARLES POLE said, that amongst the charges promulgated in the book alluded to by the Hon. Gentleman on. the opposite side of the House, it was positively asserted that 30 per cent. was charged for the condemnation of a prize ; and also, that an officer commanding a frigate, who had taken a prize, and who had objected to pay this exorbitant demand, was told by the Proctor, if he "did not pay the Sum demanded, .the ship would be considered as a Druit of Admiralty to the King. When such charges as these went forth, it was highly important, to the interests 'of the public,' that they sheuld be inquired into. The King's Proctor, in.tbo case of Copenhagen, was first employed by the Captors, .who. had sent in , 200 Sail of merchant vessels to the ports of Eng. land, previous to the commencement of hostilities, and in order to enable him to prove that the ships bdo&ged to the euttuy, all the necessary papers were transmitted. In the course or a few daps . however, hostilities commenced, and the property was declared to belong to the Daties,-aed in the course of three days, was given by the Admiralty Court to the King as a Droit. Under such con). 'skated circumstances, the argument that. only one Proctor ahonld be employed, was ridiculous, as one man would be advocating the cause of two individuals, of opposite interests, at the' same :.time. He hoped the Noble Lord would persevere In moving for the papers, but confine himself as much as possible to those documents which were most easily furnished, and moat likely to attain the object he had iu view. Mr. ROSE said, the Noble Lord.' had moved for an account of all the ships sf • the convoy, whereas if he would confine himself to one, it would answer the same purpose, and bo brought forvard with gicater facility. . . Sir JOHN NICHOLL, observed, that-in the pamphlet which had been published l and to .which some allusion had been made in the course of ,the debate, there were one or two circumstances which he could not pass over in siknce. It Was stated that the emolument of the.Kiog's Advocate amorist. ed to from twenty-five to,thirty thousand peuedi per annum. Such insinuations as those might be attended with the most serious effect, and tend to create dissatisfaction in the 'Navy itself, the last quarter in the world where w,feeling discos. tent should arise, A similar statement found its way into a public newspaper, whielViikvafter.. wards corrected - by a paragraph t . stating that front uoquestionable authority, they were informed the ,:locume of the King ' s Advocate did not amount to 7 -More than 75001. and even this did _ -not arisi from the Navy solely, but from other sourats — tif ployment. The book therefore in this respect was a gross Misrepresentation, and it might be collected from this fact, that the same misreprd. sentartfuns might be attributed to every other stabs." ment. With respect to the fee; of the Proctor; 'they were lowe'r now than during the American war, notwithstandin; the value of, money was ie .much diminished. The conduct of the Lasses lPructor was, at all times, most honourable, and marked by the strictest adherence .to justice and equity. -The Noble Lord should recollect that lu throwing out lose accusations, he was in 'fact ie. luring his own reputation i he should have ex. 'mined with the utmost circumspection the grounds 01his complaint before be made such insinuations. The Hon. Gentlemen concluded by expressing an anxious hope, the' however strong the invectives used by the Noble Lord might be e they would , not make any prejudicial imp r es s i o n on the minds of „Members . 0( that Howe, or create any inni dioirsvpinion aotemst him phase e s i n diset4ma therte Weld them up, as perscois tletervinetnieec. ' sal admiration and respect. . • Loyd' . 00C111R AN E in reply soil, that his Motion did n ot tidgitsate in the j(th 014 which had liven btiSated IN as it would be ia !bp .re collection of Gentlemen, filet he pre menace 41144 halt alien of fitrtis*OSS .0( kis 111199.• s. S . • . • - . : • THE STATESMAN; : 7 7 '07 TIP _ , . . . • _ . . • don to call the attentien of the Heine early in this Session to the exorbitant Charges of. Proc. ton. Ho had no doebt•if the expences which ' were charged on prizes were reduced, the induce ',4lPants would be so much greater for naval men, that they would bo much mote active, and take many more of the enemy's vessels ; but the draw back was now so_ great, that it was not worth their while to take those vends which come in the way. The expence of the Navy amounted to twenty motion'. six millions of whit* might be saved. If Bonaparte thought proper to have one hundred sail of the line, was - that linty reason why the naval ,strength of England should be increased five fold ? Ibis Lordship then, &pre cated with much warmth the system of granting of. licences, ..vhich he said were now as much a marketable commodity at the ports of Holland, as sheep or oxen. They were of infinite service to our enemies, as they enabled them to carry on their commercial speculatioas with unabating energy, inereased . the nursery for se4men, and became a source of national advantage, by furnish ing all those .supplies which their ships, unpro. tected by such licences, will not possibly Odom {dish. There were not less than 8000 foreign trading vessels within the river Thames annually, each of which contained from eight to thirty men, so that if Bonaparte had the ships, he could very easily find men lonian them.—With respect to the salary of the King's Proctor, ke seal Convinced it amounted to £40,()00 a year, . 1 Sir JOHN NICHOLL persisted in hi 'assertion , that the salary of the King's Proctor was but 47,500. • Capt. BERESFORD felt it inctimbent on him self to vindicate the character of the naval officers, for whom he felt the greatest love, against tho im putation thrown but by the Noble Lord, that they .required the incentive of riches to induce theM.to their duty. So far front this, he felt con vinced they would rush into the mouth of danger, and perform their duty •with es much activity and energy if they were not to receive half.g.crown, as if they were to be recompensed by a fortune. —peed, hear i] The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER thought one or two of the cases mentioned would be sufficient to brig; under the consideration of the House. it would be necessary . to make some inquiry in order to refute the observations of the , Noble Lord (Cochrane).. - lie could not agree. to the Motion in its then state. Mr. FRXEMANTLE rose in consequence of one observation that had fallen from the Noble Mover. He had stated that the • King's Proctor received annually about forty thousand pounds*: that was not the case—he received annually about eight thousand. Lord COCHRANE then altered his motion, and confined it to two cases, namely, the Two Sisters, taken by the Lord Nelson, and the "iinphiok, 'Captured by a ship, the uame of which tre could not hear. I s lic motion was then put and . agreed to. -Lad COCHRANE'then moved for a copy of the authority to the King's Proctor, ,dated the 29th March, 1779.—Ordered. Mr. ROSE then ' moved- fdr * -Colby of the order of her Majesty, dated in 1708. . Lord FOLKESTONE laid the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.'.Rose) was out of orderno no.' tice-liad been girett-ufAlse Motion. Mr. ROSE then gave notice fur tO-morrow. Lord COCHRANE moved for a copy of the King's warrant; dated 25th January, 1805, grant ing the proportions of the proceeds of the Santa Maria-to the crew of the - Corlor.Ordered. • BREACH OF -PRIVILEGE. Mr. YORKE rose to call tho attention of the House to what he thought a. gross flotation of their privileges. Either these privileges existed or they did not. If they did exist, it .was .the bounden duty of that House to defend them from those gross and - wanton attacks, that went in; a great de. grcc to question, whether they' had such pcitileges or not. The attack, of which he now complained, Vas not a mere newspaper paragraph, it was a pla. card stuck upon the walls of the metropolis, chid. longing the eye of the passenger, and openly defy ing all consequences.': A grosser breach of pri vilege than the matter contained in that placard, he could nut readily imagine ; but before he would read to the House the contents of that pa per, which he then held in his hand, he could not help making one observation. If that House had privileges to maintain, he thought in his heart, it was now high time tnaisertlhem—( Ilene, hear!) He, 'though they did him the honour of mention-' ing his name, was not ied6eticed by personal con;- shiers-lions; and he felt confident, that the House, wield do his the juetice to believe, that he as influenced, in the present Untested solely 4fy a sense of public duty. (!tear!) For the liberty that had been taken with his name, by those per sons, be felt nothing bat• the inestprofound con. tempt thei-Rattsird liiiiSiefilitrinartar. war inad ed with the names of a RiAt Hon. Gentleman op. posits: (Mr. Windhase),ind of himself. lie (Mr. Yorke) must boatel! times proud to have his name 'Coupled with that of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and so far be must acknowledge . himself indebted to Use authors of the paper in-question—as to the "objetionablo inattercontained in that paper, he should merely read it to the Bouse, and leave it to them without any comment.' This same ',lewd, which announced itself as the' jonrstal of *sort of, speaking club, called It Tins Raman Folsom," stated to the public, that ,t' Last Monday, after an interesting discussioni it was unanimously de cided, that the enforcement of the Standing Or. deri, by shutting out Strangers from the Gallery of the House of C o mmons, ought to be censured as an insidious mid ill-tiniedattack upon the 14 betty of the press, as tending to aggravate the die:. contents of the people, and to resider their kr. presentative. • otijects of Jealous suspicion,"- :Hero they had their mint valued privileges attacked at once, their Standing Order, were censured, and they themselves were mepaccd ; for the speetion upon the propriety of enforc ing thole , Orders had been recently before -- the Hane s and the prifpriety of that proceed ing *es coefirmesi hp 4 very eqesideral a t e maj o .. I:41, lie bad helm bred qp it; thuarhakiit pr Tr. • • %VP NA.F4I . • S 41 11111 Is ! 14, 7T2Mfilr noration for the Con‘titadon, that•he N od , necessity, revere the Liberty of the Pras e 4 1 - 16 - 1 11 the most efficient gaardians of that C onst i tatio he thought the Liberty of the Pres s had eoau.-"' formidable enemy . than the licentiousness a( Press, and as a sincere and *talons 46, 44 7 the.former, he trusted he should never h e with lt la his efforts to punish and restrain the latter: first proposition would be, to deliVer in th e r at the table—next, that it should b e read h",, and that the 'clause in the Be Fe Bill o f . ' ll C re ll l e a r tive to the privilege of debate, slioahl real ; and lastly, he should move, that the Pe„: shoald be required to Wend at the By ro i i r . House to-morrow. Mr.Yorke . then delivered j o paper, -which was read by the Clerk and "' n l 4 substance as follows t-•—• WINDHAM RNLI YORKE. BRITISH FORUM. 39, RISOFoRD.STRer? Co raet?-Ga Bogy —McKanic., Fan. 19, !did ' Qiiesti : Which was a greater outrage epee ib ,. feeling, Mr. Yurke's enforcement of the /bandi t; or': exclude Strangers from the House of Cootraith. or W indham's recent anurk lip m the I.ikerty of Prey?' Last' bloadav, &c. (Far the rest of this c hos e irlitT:lseikee.gogrefsaPcteecoamnfinix:i)amety,maa:fiet:te.danebyrtathine,p:oliwrereir)stbsik:: period, to become acquainted with the p f ‘,4 edi ,, ri ajita romoters Ae and ic of the bite calamitous Expeditios Scheldt, tn.;ether with the violent attacks ' m ade by Wiipthisin•an the Newspnprr Reporters (who m tents as" kankrupts, Lottery-Office Klepers, decayed Tradesuren,") bays stirred up the and excited universal attention. The present quett t.. t h ere f ore brought forward as a tomparative inguity, And be justly expected to funds% a crusted and ister esi k hate. • Printe4 by J. P LAN, 117, Wardour-street. • . Mr. YORKE neat moved; That that clan% the. Bill of Rights, affecting privilege of speech it that House, be now natl. It was read nee . ingly, stating, in 4nirstance, that the spe ec h es debates of Members in Oat Meuse ova to be impeached or questiostorby any , seibgi, out of that How. • • Mr.-YORKE thermovedi•Tht J. Deja, ter, 57, Wardonr.street, dwattend at the that House, to.fnorrow.-- - -Oedered. The House resolved into a Committee of top, pI7, and after some conversation betweon Wharton and Mr. Tierney, the consideratios tf the subjects referral. to it was postponed till Fri, day,. and the House resumed. The Committee of Ways and Means was nor, , pooed till, Wednesdays EXPEDITION TO THE SCHELDT. The Order of the Day beiug. moved for pie ; into a Committee of Inquiry respecting the Erg. dition to the Scheldt. • Lord FOLKESTONE rerourrmeelcd Om pre. priety of devising some means to promote dispel in the progress of this - Inquiry. From the helm of Thee to which it had already extended, and free the manner in which it latigoisheti,.he wag milt at a loss to calculate upon the period of its ter*. nation, unless there was considerably mom of li. ligence and activity than had yet appearetli tulles more of the time of the House were devoted nit, 'With this view he would propose that the Ivey should take precedency of all notices of motion et that the House sheutd proceed upon this intiaityat en earlier hour of the day than that selehice, n ot t:usually commenced helloes,. The latter ootirsete would himself be dispustal to prefer. But there * a subject of much more consequence, to OM hi thought it has duty, uptm this occasion, to eat the attention of the lbws. Among the medal• the table, he found a most extraordinary latter re,. ferring to the matter of this Inquiry. Re c* fessed that when this letter was originally mould for, he felt some doubts es to the'regularity producing it; hat upon flit:tiler considering it, ad doubt was removed,atel keno, had no hesitation in declaring his decided opinion, th at It was aril document as that Rouse quiet rit to receives, allow to remain on the table. For what did Mt paper purport to be ? A narrative of five Exp. dition to the Scheldt, signed by Lord Chatham, and presented to his Majesty withoet the hoer. Tendon of any responsible Mitfi'stee ! - (4 laud cry of facar, hear !) :Dicta were We* Oleg connected with this paper which appeared is demand explahation. How did the POW tsnor it• was a true' copy of the discontent said to have been presented to -his Majesty I Through what Office did it Pass 2—. fear It did not heir: tM signature of any official person; a'nd by whale! . cident did it come Into the hands of the Chancel lor of the exchequer, by whom it had Ince isiti .cm.the table? Another remarkable feattwe shoot it was 'this, .that although it , met two or OWs mon* ago announced in the Newspapers, Alia" 'or ejapposed to have some understanding well* Ministry, that Lord Chatham had presented it 11 . 1. ' lative of this description ,to h s MaieltY, yet, rho paper to which he 'now referred tore date poly upon the 14th inst. But his main objection to this Papei was of a• constitutional character-7 Lord Chatham hal; it - appeared, not in his cha racter of a Peer; or Privy Counsellor, bat, in dot 'of a MilitaryCommander l yvesented to theiiitte"" person, an aeCoust of hie military prooeediat4 ill though directed under the Sign Malawi!, by wh;t he was appointer!, to make such eommitaicationf , to the proper (Nicer %hem the Constitatioft re. cognized; and this account was brought taints that House in a most oneonstitutionel, irregular, and questionable phape,, This paper seeming l" have keit presented to his Majesty in hi. 4 Prig * closet, he did not know through abet ° N ce, it um! ha way to. that - goose. It might Zoilt ia li eery important matter, and it might be proper to have it laid upon the table; but from the.irar* larity which he hod remarked about it, he tho)liit it right to submit his opinion to the considerat ,o on hat House, Mr. CANNING apprehended; from tlai.to". Me Lord's statement, that the paper to *Web " Noitle Lord referred was not pros-ated to any Ct. : vial Minister, but persowelly to his Majesty. it"' M c " a (Milian well worthy of conliderstieni whether the objection applyint to the form in which the paper was breueist before that Menet WO not, such es could not h o ro m o nel, or gash , tied by_ the substance of Alit paw, sheerer ill!! ssalbstence might be. (nom joqr t t Ile deism suppose that all PIAUI Nit the House, tchot* s to pubiie llocelaselsoireassiaddrealeir °WO: 120 llsilshrM WSW) fa' • • . e• . ' V' I c ~7 A I'