The Statesman. — London, England, 1822-02-11 00:00:00

,'. :!ta.f INP/11111/1021110114. the Noble Earl (of Liverpool) admitted the necessity( of FG•fle ir qniry Into the state of Ireland , and gave red•on to hope that it would be entered into when the Aleut trances were pet down, he, for these reasons, will- Inizly acquiesced its the Rill! proposed. The iarl ,t. DARNLEY said, if he did not oppose the meeeeres Cu evert stage with the strongest ergs• runts in'llis power. he would thereby evince that he reposed a degree of confidence in the executive power of Ireland, which he was sot in the habit of reposing in Ministers. Even though he were disposed. on cow stitutioaal greyed*, to vete splint the liiiir, the na ture of the times email sot permit him. This spirit. was in operation last Aetna& He wandered, thew♦ fore, that Parliament was not assembled sooner. This would have prevented the necessity of eallieg epee them to pass vigorous measures soddenly. - The papers laid upon the table might furnish groaod fir martial law, bat not fur extending the Insarrlitios Act to all belated. The discretion which this Bill would give :Si the Magistrates was altogether enorsaoes. The , *bunter of the Bill now before their Lordships, was characterised by 'the author of a Ministerial pasepblet, ai merely patting oat the tire by kicking abetst the lettede.—(Cries of hen.)--If it was necessary to be Alerted, be confessed for one, that be should Ilk. *ties the despatch et the Marquess Wellesley. No vitt% l intels appeared. Ireland should rather be 6 tad this punished ; and , in the east a Mime the mon of policy, be called ins their, f i erdellips to take the distresses of !related Cato their speiturioitemeasideratiee. The Noble Lord biro ad /1111114 %Othe mmHg , of Irish gentlemen lately kiltils Leedos--a steeds; at which the Governeeellentre streogly solicited set to nerce. but to conillaia, the 164 people. He hoped the vials of the Nisi In its id o (Lord fl.'s) unhappy reentry d do good. and be bond the best from a warm Sovereign. morltbstaading them hopes, unless the old e purely Ireland were don anie-nakis e t aid' Ohms distinction were pet au old to, it was in valg to upset that Ireland send Imig, remain u as aural tell pp tOis ametry. Piece sad division had too bag Wiped its inland, sod he trusted the time *veld shortly wee when a Oneromeat of coaciliation would repine it. As Insurrection now prevailed. which it wee necessary to put 'flows. When the boom was on ire. dm Snot Aims to he dons was to pat It oat; het tine ilieverament would is the mid be disagpoleted, If theyinsegieed that sores million of prop!, would be treated pa they bad here for °eateries back. He was Rot prepared to say Whether the premed measures were or wore sot the best; bet he should feel himself guilty if a &relied°, of his.dety if he had net made she few oleervatlone with which he bad troubled their tordeslps.—(Hear. hear.) The Hareems of CAMDEN was one of them who mouldered the measures semesary. Although he Newt to say is few words es the mooed mailing ache . • DUI. he souk tileopportunity to glee it his warmest sepia s. bet be hopM It woold be followed by a eels and dhpassi•aate Jewelry into the Sum of 'Mud.-- olear.l . . . • tow SIZENSOWI4III send *kb she Nobialleel (Duo") twit the lams osilit to be extlegoieStA, but Awes ottiagnished. the mesas by which it elsUld be achieved eight tow threw. aside...-(llear.).mat had read the oerrespo•datee of Lord Wellesley with attention, aid eoeld net dismal& his uvulae, that in the whole of thst unespeadeses ho could not lied the expression of a single evident of Iselin of that Noble Marquess. He (Lord 11.) felt that reining. eight to be pat dove. [The Noble Lord hem reed as aurae from the Report of the Magistrates of she soothers districts of the gouty of Cork, completed,' that " the whole district might be said to be is a de- fenceless state."] And that (said *Mob,* Lord) was the case is solemn last. What hid Mildews bees since about?—(Hear.)—Mitt be won admit that the disturbuces mast be pat down—sad speedily too.— (Hear.)—He trusted this the knows abilities of the Noble Marquess as the Mid of the Gamuts's' of Ire land. wield be used in sosodieg the depths of the disterbancass aid grievances of Ireland.--(Hear.).-If that Noble Lord did sot come forward, mid at no die. tent period, with measures very different from those which be had jut dictated to Ilittisters, he (Lord B.) sad the toiletry, would feel mach disappolated indeed. (Hear.)—There were other grievances to redress in id dition to the Catholic disabilities—he mesat the per sent tithosystue.—(Hear)—He hater there were wields incapable of anderstseding the diarist:et be., tween what was attessury and that which was oily desirable—ketoses that which au possible, sad that which weevily difficult. Now, altimegb tithes sight not to he entirely resme, yet he believed that there] wee a necemity of modifying the spires es it stood at present.-.-(Hoar, hear.)—He never gave a vete is his life with more pdn time that which be was shoat to give le support of the Bills before their Lordship; bet be woad again press upon Misistors. sad Noble Lords, that these bills shield be followed by Inquiry redress.—(Hear.) • Lied RBDESDALB said. one of the great causes 'ldle evils of Ireland. was the abuses of a reddest Gestry. Besides, there was an habitual resistance to law which sot only pervaded the lower, bat exteeded to the higher classes.—(Hear, hear )-rue, the Irish people were as meals to kinds... as any pees is the world; bet they were operated on by a different spirit on many occasions which be wield set now snore than alindru. He wished well to Inlaid, but at the same time the Mob people Auld set only be taught, but forced iota a sebatissioe to the laws. Let them feel the laws to be their friend. bat let this else feel they will pettish them if offences are omaseitted. Let the great Leadlords reside os their estates—let theta dispense the laws at the guider Sesames, and show by their example. that they wish well to their own country. He knew thyself@ by which °Udine. was often extorted is Ireland ; end that was by a mu knocking his sea dews if be did sot Moistly obey him. Such was the motion that shiest 'enviably prevailed amongst the peasantry. There were ether evils at which be should sew only glues. One of those was the mode of kiting the lands. There were often live or six preens between the owner of the sell and the occupyieg tenant ; and,,perhaps, some of their Loedehips wield be surprised to bear. that the amo pulpiest of each of them proses to die other was vidersi on him whe held the possessien. or, la other weeds, be who was the celtintor of the WI. Se bed otos uvulas to regret the hardships Rader white that Glees ee pumas 'sheared ; and he had as Asa 111(1 I . i .........; it; them fill the offices of Magistrates. and the laws and their. Admioistrators would be the more respected. • ity measures of a similar nature they might expect to reduce the disturbances. Unless acme measure was bit spots. that the tithes aright not be taken is Mad. they could not espeet toy good effect, as the principal part must be effected by the proprie tors of the land. And he should think the person who tree in the office of Lord Lieutenant nnfit for his office, if he should attempt to lay before the Uovern meat the true state of the country. in the shun time be bad boon therm , • Lord HOLLAND agreed in most of the petrel 44 - servatioaawbich had fallen from the Noble Lord who bad preceded him; but there was one little circus staace epos which be differed from them all. He' moat the trifling circumstance of their agreeing to the. Bill. while be intended to oppose it.-4A laugh.) He was surprised that a Noble Lord who professed to feel a constitutional jealousy of those Bills should now give them his support. The Noble Lord (41Ienbo roogh) had declared his iatention to support the Bill; ', bat that be should do so with coosiderahle relutance. I He (Lord if.) honoured the feeling. by ~abiola that Noble Lord was govroted ; bat he could, net Kra, with him that the Bill would he re • that It would tend to allay the disturbaaceo. . Mold boast of no great p-rsonal intimacy with Lod ten& , ley, bat be had--not the slightest objeetrom• *AO fide the authority to be vested is him. .Itiffillohlo Lord had said, that " when the balsam's ee lbw they mast extinguish the dames;" bat were the Santo to be extiaguisbed by scattering the .loraads ?- --No, rather by !Ater. Military force was tbs . pro r means of extinguishing the flames. Im the pro vine. of (Allister, they had been able to Prevent the 'depredations by military fore.. By the letter of Wil son from Tipperary, the I osurrectios Act is motioned, sad no where else. The berthas of the °tog has al ways been, " want of military force." The power of transporting offenders. when takes, could set pre vent the outrages. Such an act would be Wittig ar bitrary power in the headset' the Magistrates; which was not to be fused in England. The penes. In ' trusted with the power were the wet oak is the ' country. He bad the same opinion of the Magis tracy of all .!ountries. and he would sot sake any ex option is favour of Ireland. The effects of it. is that country. were knows to every body foe the last twenty years, and this would be a fresh meson to gall the too much irritated people of Ireland. Am-, other, and s powerful object:ea to the BM was. its liability to abase.—(Hear. hear, hear!) It was a taw dememtal maxim, that all power was liable to abase, and it could net be denied that powei of this nature was especially so. Did not his Majesty's Governmeat. who proposed this Bill, know that the most atrocious *bums which bad ever disgraced de annals of say country upon the face of the earth. bad been peeps— tested by thee. who bad the admimistratios of the terrible penalties of these laws? Ons of the maw ' .holy offccts of snob a system of Molensleetufse,iltin the bad spirit which it provoked led to the energise Off ludul isl F of every passion is votaliation.-ss(ifor.)-- Bon resentment in the breast of i Judge was enta il as a ground for disqualifying him; end yet if was the Magistracy of Ireland, labouring as thee wee sake 'Wisp most strongly excited, that the Illapiireed to aro wi th power over *Psi . they 4aat osueolved to have injured them.. The - eon of seek as. imjatlicions delogatiott of power bad son in the operation of former Inaorectioa Acts; it occa slotted among all the blagistracy a desire for the renewal of their power. Even a just Magistrate, When be found he could not punish a particular offence, wished for the almost unlimited power which be possessed bokre, though he might sot wish to abuse it; a bad Magis trate recollected that upon a former occasion he bad the mesas of gratifying his posit», ap4 he naturally wished for the means of gratifying them again. The dreadfal state of society which was the result could not be cootosplated without the most heartfelt alarm cad dismay. The evil example of such measures both spot the Magistrates led the people. was also a crying evil. A Noble Lord (Redesdale) had said that the melon *holy state of Ireland was such, that from the MOM to the lowest, the laws were disobeyed. Was this mai ' Vilest disrespect of the law likely to be remedied by measures of correction; by violent aid revolutionary laws which converted potty Magistrates into the sp rests of their vicinity. It was a very remarkable de othotamos, that since the Union, there never had bast six, eight, or twelve months. is the long mere , of . twenty years, in which if the Irish Magistracy. or the Predominating part of them, was asked what tensely they should apply to local evils, that they weak% net have answered " Hive us an losarrectioa AM.° In fact. no Lord Lieutenant had ever sot his foot b fo isted without being beset by the esissaries•of .I*km. without hawing every attempt made to envelope 'his mind in the m ist of every species of delight.. There was always in Ireland a party who lived l V4lii ii ;a: of their Inlnence with floveimment : If I wormer were a weak man. they used all this Inmate' an alarm in his miad ; if he were • maw of spirit, they pat him out his mettle—and the trews Was practised with every ingenuity of tat/fine. hem use end of the country to the other.—(ilear.best4 Ose ob'ection be bad to the season was, that they , _ _ would operate u a bar to any Warrantees In *h state of things is that country. Daring e former pe. fled of disturbEece is that country, what It had bees complained that the powers granted to quell thee" es terbasees had been used for the penman of the Protestants. it was answered that they were say sa. plop"' ageism those who were attached to Beaparte. Bet these pewen had bees entrusted to Catholics who took eMeppertuaity elm's' off the debt duo from keg aelseesity towards their Protestant seiglibetue. If a mu were a Protestant, is their eyes he was a (eked to finsparte. Thu be foresaw that this would bosun a wet of religion betwixt the differest sects. The Noble Sad appellate (the Lad of Li t) had Mid diem that the disease ender which less Marin was orgeeic, sad issianated that It required all the wieder (dell the faculty to alabaster to it. It was to be her.. in mind that the Noble Bad had bees the family physkias to this esferneate palest foe she hat metre years. It was be who had all aims, felt bet pale; but sever before bad be said ale word shoot this agate cempleist. The Noble Lard at his eolingses were to go law a enesidoredea of her goodie amplaist, however, bait wositt is timer a woonld avoid every question mane of the malady. What was .......itholies? What with the tithe system? The absence of the great proprietors was un questionably igreat misfortune, and owing in a great degree to the iiinnection of that country with Englan.t. That evil, however,. had been mach exsggerateol, and if they would bet extead to Ireland the law of Eng land it would he notch lessened. A general contempt for law had arisen amongst all elm from &Discorso u meet. It existed in equal proportiou from flap dn.-Ilia with his false sense of bonoer,to the bogtrot ter who went at night to steal his debtor's eow,'to avoid the ignominy of employing a bailiff, to recover his lawful debt by doe course of law. He could net conclude without observing, that if the Marquess Wellesley thought these measures necessary it should have appeared in i lk* official papers before the House. He should vote be measures, on the grounds he bail stated. especially because he regarded them as standing the way of farther improvement of the country, Iron the bad example they set to the Magistracy of the etianty.—(Hear.) The Doke of WELLINGTON declined followisi the Noble * Lord who had just sat down, into ail Awl details he bad so ably handled. He rose more peed milady to address himself to the employment of the military fotee under the Lord Lieutenant. Before he enterell epee that part of the question, 'layette ? be hroeld retitled their Lordships that the Insarreetios Bill did ant go to impale a perpetual continntsmi of the amnion it aitherised...-(Hear, hear.)—That law reltdretchat the Lord Limiteaast should preelabn the pikieslefdistricts before it could be applied to them, Epee the represestatlon of the local Magistrates that it was necessary. The Lord Lientenast, therefore, is should be home In naiad, was responsible for the districts he pmelaimed..—(Continued cries of hear.) With respect vs the application of a larger military force. be believed it areal 4 be &sad that there was at the present time I. Ireland a larger fort*, nearly doable what was therefilt the commeneetnentof the late war. It web true that the cremation of this law necessarily required force, bat be believed there ten as large a forts there at propene as could well be employed ender existing circumstance. By the pa. pen before the House it appeared that there was la some parts a rebel, force la that country, which by military force alone meld be put dowel. In others, matters were carried on differently. In those parts it ens the practice to go about at night sad rob dwelling bosses of arms. Although It did set appear by these mere, yet the fat was, that la many instances houses which actually joined the walls of the barreeb bed bees plundered le this way. It was phis, theeeffies, them was as sell with which the military could not *opt in its present shape, • al would not be more so if there were doable the flasher of treops.—(Hear, hear, bear !)—And there was is fact as mode of dealing with each offeaces, bet by requiring the ishabitsete se keep their bosses by night, and to give the Magi". Mai the power too oblige them if they were Mtg. la this the military would be able to reader that effectual assiataams(Hear.)—and although this 10111pIted the no e'f pat team yes for each dieeriete I only se k might be Used emissary to proclaim. lieve was gain enough. H. repealed, the Lord Lieutemint wield be responsible le every case is which he shield proclaim a distriet, and if their Lordships felt that con/dean la him they had bees pleased to urea, and which ha hoped he deserved, they would set he sham to pass the meassre..-{Hear, hear.) The Duke of BUCKINGHAM was of opiates, that epos the spied, adoption of then measures depended the safety of Ireland. He was wallet; pet *sly to place confidence in his Noble Friend the Lord Lieu- Mast of Irelaad, but would, under similar circa.- Masees. place the same in say Government of that l eemasty. With regard to the Noble lord's (Lord Seabed's) objection to the Magistracy, because they were prejudiced persons, he begged to ask, would that Noble Lord, if his house was set on fire by Jaren diaries, and his cattle being driven away, refuse to act is defence of his property, because he was as iaterest. ed, sad therefore prejudiced person? It was their /eat duty to look the sitaitlos of that country In the bee, and then set Oat to Instil better feelings is the beams of the people.—(Hear.) 'bed CALTHORPB explained. The Marquess of LANSDOWNE said, that although *ewe woald be so teconsiateacy is the two votes he *said give that night, be thought it eternity to say $ few words on the subject of them. The one vote Weald be, as regarded the means itself, and tie other, is to the peeled of duration. With regard to the first, "Mei was the most meat. undoubtedly it would be with hookatiou that be should give • vote affecting the liberties of minima of his fellow-subjects. Bat from impales, ever-ruling necessity he felt booed to give a vote is feast of it. With respect to the ether Bill he essfeseird he did eel clearly perceive the aecessity of h, bat be "append it was to rest en the reeposslbllity of the Goversmeat of Indeed. Referring to that re 4posailbitisyalmolieggad to say, that he attealied,mach impresses se the beset the power being placed la the heads it was; for as the Noble Doke °promo bad said (the Duke of Wellington), much of the details of the measure had depended on the inured*" of the No , blesses at the heed of the Owevemeat of Ireland ; and be was happy to be able to feel that confidence I. him which he did. It had bee. stated, however, that there `would have bees a dilieulty la that Noble Marquees expreselag his opielon as to the expediency of apply lag certain laws, and he ;meld very well understand that it would have been sabecomieg to the Noble Marquees to point out in a tone of dictation to she Parliament of Eaglaad. the precise laws Moog she many they bad to choose from. Bet wield there have bees any dilicalty is his stating the lent *Mere of the evil, and drools% their site. ilea to where the *elitist laws were delicieet ? There -was the procaine of Lord Whitworth, who bad take. that "earn a few years ago when Lord Lieuteaaat of babed. He had gives a legal as well as military deseripdwn of the state of the country which he was empleyed to govern. Wee he to be told that the Mar- Wellesley was Wampum' to such a task ?.. they had a right to expect from bias such ea enlarged Maw. There wont ao doubtless. papers is the heads 4 arnerseasat at this subject, which, if they were *BM they Night to have hem on the-table of this lbeik they wield kern that the Marquess We d expressed the apiales attrilated t• kiss. retard to the native measures to be *Wed or . , 1 Hg STA TNS 111 AN. litleo g lit. list e ok: ' el l e' - y ' a I tiers I b eal woold he foo,Pleimithe to of lici r th s e leh g rist n t g to l o P e s bin g e t I t :mi l l: ic y e Landed Proprietors As he said before, let them di.- to be done with the Cal . . . . . - • • - : _..~ ft i 1 • . R I wards Ireland, when he recollected that such to. asu. . had been sanctioned by Sir. Grattan, the greatest man that country ever produced, who watched rarer the interests of his conotryeen with the feelie t . of • father, and looked at them with the r om sight of a statesman, be felt strengthened in tie coarse which he had resolved to pursie.—(H ekr. hear.) When be saw the waters of bitterness had begun to flow, and threatened to overwhelm tie *hole face of society, which be believed to he the state of the soeth of Ireland, be was obliced to adept the only remedy, that could be administered. Their first deny was to put down the existing evil, and thee take steps to fortify society agaiast a recurrence of it It was upon these grounds that be thnught he should not be justified in withholding his onwiling assent. They bad been told .f the 'spurious they had bad of them laws, as an &instep. But he thought that es. prince told the other way. As a proof of this, he would rote the opinion of • Learned Judge, delivered as a warning to the Grand Jury of a County. lie de. scribed the lasurremion Ass as one which saapeaded the whole Cosentino., and one ander whirl' he had knows • case of a penes being HO a trip across tie Atlantic solely for ehe parpeoe of voiding a beseficlal lease. He (the Marquette of Laudowne) knew easy respectable persons in 'reload who missed to be pot in the Cowinsiseion of the Peace feene - the disinciathe they felt to associate with these wise would beams their colleagues is such a emu Tide he 'stated frt. 'Ms owe howled..., and be dwelt OD the fall, hos a hope that the Ooverseteat of Ireland would an is intuition to purifying the Magistracy, and take the precaution not to admit Juno that body say but sash as were qoalided by respectability and integrity. He preferred entrusting the applieedea of coercive ma sures to a military fore, beene they were net affected by those heal prejudice, which the Civil datherities could ant escape; their iaterhiresua began and ceased with the disorders they were called ape. to tereas : they came into the conatry for that prime, aid they left it without 'tubas the lower orders la that me. egress oppoeitioa to each other. which wield ham been created bad the same eurcio. bee. indicted by masters mad neighbours. with whom they hooked to be hued by another tie. With regard to the period of the bemused*. Act, proposed by hie Noble Primed (Lad King). to be six weeks, presumed that such a limitation was not fuedid on any °pintos that it would be 'efficient for the 'edged*u of the &seri. antes; bat by that time the Mew Ririe have at. iciest information on the matte*. as to detersaleetbew to modify some of the clauses. particularly that es. ceptionable part which did away with the trial ley Jury, sad that which made effewders ender theme.% punishable as felons. If them were to be eaderstood as affording a pretest for deferring the consideration of the state of !retard, be should think that he de. partedfrees his duty as a Member 44 Partial's.* Ski es an Englishman. if he agreed to them. What he bees dose for that eatery during the last twee years? If the views of these who had pledged tie. selves to redress her grievances at that time had hen redeemed, what might not here bate diet? If the emote= of delay had act feud lie any ism she armee of State. how different might now he tie state of !relied; hew much blood might liars been spared ? They bad new. however. attired as a period who. they could so longer ishg.-- Whatever disposition there might be in that bass sr elsewhere. to shrink from that consideratio•-4 •IN r valued the safety of the country—if they hoped n protest the Couchettes—if they hoped to protest de Church. which were eadangerod, they were hued est to yield to that disposition. If, from whatever tun or motive.Ouvernmeat was ass prepared to foot this iseetima, what was the policy they were persaiag ? Sea presses were Gait to exercise the great powers they held in the same of the country. While be asseete, 1 therein*, to the Freest "'meanest of they eautree. he did so seem the limitation of his Noble Prised (Lord Kieg.) and if at the sod of that period sod*. *Woe should have hoe. manifested to take the mew he recommended. at whatever risk to his owe repast' or to the peeper', and lives of others, be should feel it to be his duty to eppese the longer existence of then esti! a fall ad fair atesideratien of the stated label should be entered epon.—(Hear, bear.) The Earl of LIVERPOOL resets reply. leamerierne of what had jest &Ilea from the Noble Marquess se eche' Noble Leeds. it would be necessary for him to *feeble their Levet* with a few observations beyond the F. mite le 'bids he had Intended to confine himself It wee mode a matter of objection and complaint that thee ..mas=on were net accompasied by a distinct roommate dation either ass by the 'Noble Marquess. is when thee apparel to be a disposition on all limed. to pine Miaow.. Bet he must say, that if the Noble Mame bad amadiered Mewl, testified to Good home a dispoich treadagefthe mien' canoes of the origin of these ess rages, mad reeemmeadiog specific measures far *W amnesties. from the Behr oppottheitt of miaow and examimatioa which his residence in ['timid. use the le ellJeterery. could have afforded hies; is the case, he eine eay, that the high estieation in which li §iltilogsltlt FAA !he talons tense Nobjeseso, sea hustalmes mseseummo I. a very considerable degree. A Nellie Lord had amplained that there were set 0. 1 Beet forces ii i'rebuked that a largedy boif BOW! sight pat dewed.. dieurbances. Whet? step s Ott lie. by force. whore Sue could nee he Weed la Is' The lady law, dbwelbee. which amid Nisi As .110 0 in its operation, sue he us which wield cowl lot r 3pe d to abstain from nightly enseings, ' going thee their hones at the period now to for ski dreadful purposes of disorder. la east place. it we urged against the inennee before the house. that I . be presaatry would be subjected by it to the injatr which might arise from the local relations selektive k tween than aid the Idwierates to whom the evP power would be eatrestal. But thou who um& f'' &species seemed to forget the provision for the pewee< of a Barrister and Klag'sSerjeant. It could sot 'w ei r posed that local prejudices could exist in the minds 0 those feamionaries, and the people were Ill'r fore certain to receive impartial injustice at their heads. With regard to what had Wks uow the Noble Marquess upon the esal.adar aistratioa of justice by the Magistracy of Ireland k mast cosies that be was somewhat surprised at the uteri of the *educe which had bees laughs ik . ward. If a Judge lemur sub facts to have bees k ealaeace e was it sot his dety to bring the offseierts justice? lie knew set who the Judge was—(n' Marques of Laulowne said " Judge Vietchm o Inn it was a circumetaue altogether of a very eerie' nature. How a beselicial lease was to bare le es voided by trausportieg a man to Betsey Bay. 0 to him u inexplicable proposition. la appeg e4 14