The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1808-03-11 00:00:00

• should, w%eit expedient, bow to the necessity of tbe titu-*, or the plinth. welfnre. Sue) were al ways IL. seittniteuts, and be trusted they iliould nor, be easily shaken ; bait in the present instance he could nut but observe the good proposed to bet effected was so doubtful, if any at all, cud the menus such as should not be resorted to but on extinordinary occasions, is here the then"itil result tug were ummue and striking, that there really ex isted no inducement to agree in the preen Bill's enactment. If it oat to pow et all, it twos also to be eircniuserthwil (lie had understand) in its dares tion. Prohibiting the Crown from granting rever sions, for a short space of time, certainly would nit effect any great good. Hence he was compelled to give his dissent to the measure, as totally inefficient is its perpose. Lund tioltitowitY did not area: Out stratvgth of argument in the speeches of Noble Lords who op posed the Bill, which was mafricut to induce bun to oiipore the batuure, under certain ustedinertiows. It was true that the Wiese were the hereditary Counsellors of the King, bound to support his just rights and Prelogetives ; still there %%AN Igghing iu the exercise of that duty, ineonsiste.it with the other, equally int perative, of preserving the interests of the people. lie considered that both Houses of J evilement had full authority to address their Soernegn On such measures as to them seetned advisable, and, therefore, iu hi. opinion, the ob jection of the Noble and Exurited Lord, when he spoke of au attempt to force tins measure on the part of the other Kunst of P a rliament, did by no means apply. When be heart at submission, he filt it reseal be meant le ea other construction, ibinsairising from the propriety and policv of the measure itself. Upon every view of the subiect, he should support the outer for the House rs4lv ing itself iuto a Committee on this Bill. Earl Cisatv-so" My Lords, the Noble Lord who ballast sat down, has de irered observations so matimd by political prudence, Bost I should have bill it unnecessary to hove toou6led your Lord ships, was I not unwilling to give a silent vote On a question of such vital importance at the present moment. I hare hard fall from a Noble and Learatillostd (Itedewlalr) such strange inferences, that I really feel at a lops in what manner to ar coitt for than, unless by smote: sung hies to be in- Macaw!, on this occasion, by as strong political bigotry, as recently he was by a religious bigetry, Si violent as net to have permitted His Mognoty's Ministers to venture his return to Ireland. That Leaned Lard has declared his decided hosti. lity to this Measure. prim-wally upon three grounds; first, that its advocate" how afforded to this House tie reefs of its expeolieligy; nett, that it is a direct of the 0. 7 0 pme rA tiv.. ; and family, that it is ohgeetineable, from the matinee in winch, he as serts, the other Woof of Ilhoriiiiment liar attempted to force it. upon the coomiikratimarof your L.ordsloops. MI Lords, on the first place, its expedicosey has bpi/eared manifest to throe who, by the tote of the other House, a vote recommeolded by the Speech from the Throne, had, in consequence of very LC curate investigation and very mature inquiry, found, that in order to effect all the objects of a solutury and jiractirahle economy, an end oitght to he put to the granting of offices in reversion. It was fowl& that whilst such grants continued to be made by the Crown, it was irn a mowible either to abolish or regulator those offices, which, from a change iu eircumstaoces, had ennsilersibly varied in the na ture of their importance, and the extent of their duties, from the owned when they Lined originally bestowed. Did the Noble and Lesrned Lord sot know, that there were Mikes now eajoyed by persons, under such grants, wherein, frodi a variety of causes, sad' a counderiable ad vance in the .salary awl profits had taken place, as *ever could ham been on the contemplation of the Crown when it bestowed them, or in the view of the public w h en it assented to that prero- Lotion, in virtue of which the p ower of conferring them war exercised. lndeoril, 111 the case of the "& le Lord who has thotmlit proper to move the amendment of this night, I find the strangest il lustration of this proposition. And here, my Lords, give me lease to assure you, that in adverting to this fact, I am as sincerely impressed as may mein who heart one with the valid and joist title of the Noble Lord (Arden) to the benefits of the si tuation which he holds under this species of grant. Neither can I be supposed to attribute to him soy other misfire for the line of conduct he has adopted on this occasion, than the ceuviction thnt he entertains of the injustice and impropriety of infringing on the Prrargative ; a consequence which he. in my opinion, has in delusively attached tro tins measure. But is there a man who hears me who is not fully convinced that the salary of the 1 reversionary office which he holds, has, by the upe- Potion of unexpected and recent causes, totally ehanged its original extent, and advanced is profit far beyond any rbtiusate that ever was enter untied either by the person who granted or him ' who received the office originally ? If I anvnot much misinformed, that place has advanced in income, freme cornparatively • very trifling amount, to the enormous *nut of 20,0001. per annum. Can the !to ble and Learned Lord still complain of the waist of proofs, in order to establish the expediency of this prolithitiou? or can the Manse believe that this is a solitary case. or one not sufficiently strong to induce their Lordships to interpose a Legislative correction against the continuance of each a dangerous sys tem ? Every inquiry that is made will more fully prove the variety of similar cases which exist, and to what a powerful manner they operate as impede Extents to the necessary and expected reform of the public offices, and consequently to the alleviation of the public pressure. We next proceed to the ob.. jectiun arising from the infringement this measure is supposed to snake on the Prerogative of the Crown. To the Censtitsitional Prerogative of the Executive authority I profess isytell a sincere friend. and therefore it is that !anxiously call upon the House to put an end to a system, above all others calcu lated to strip the Crown of those rights which are ato necessary to its honour and security. Let me ask in what manner this Bill operates against that Prerogative ? Is not the Crown the fountain of breionr ? Has it not the able power of the ap possittnimt to great offices ? What else. then. does this bill effect, loit to redeye throve places and offices to the standard by which at their original form ition they were tegsilated ? What change does it introduce, or inroad sioes it male. but in lopping off those ireennfeas profits, which never were to the contemplation atilt grant, earn whets swindle and 111.111 V bt.011.%11 *Cie to 11/t• 1101111 . 01.111 ed But, says the Noble sod Leo/tied 'Lord, t calmed reconcile myself to support the pritajple of this measure, loceisure in its o k ieration,.or to being made the proved...it for succeedisig imen minus, it might possibly or probably Ise aitenderi with most mis chievous sod sistimerous tronoequenets. Really, my Lord*, it is impossible toinower this old WWI u rep ing arguateilt, but by others which bior - e heretofore 011 many occasions been introduced into diseursinan lf, indeed, such an objection was to stsecessl, if the , spirit of improveineot war to ertiporate from the i.i flucitee of possible dangers autl probable appro.' heaven's, if errors were not to be corrected or evils remedied from an overweening dread of iimovation, then this colliery would have to fitment the want of all those . great awl glorious privileges soil seen rities which constiote so deservedly our national boost and our st essential safeguard. For what was Magna (larks but an innovatimi ? What else was the right of petitiuu ? What else the revolution, that glorio us epNA, when this country roleidued a recognition of its • librr ties ? Indeed, I would ask the venerable Bench of Bishops, whom, on this occasion parti cularly, I see in such formidable numbers arrayed attend toe, whether, if this dislike to innovation, this hostility to improvement, had existed some cen turies post s this country would have purtiripatvd iu the enlightened wisdom and numerous benefit's of the reformation ; or whether they themselves would have ever had a seat within those walls, with. power nests-tide on this measure of reform, a bich they are now perhaps prepared to oppose ? The Noble mud Learned Loyd, in his recital of the evil effects which might probably moue from the adoption of this Bill, or from arc curtailment of the Royal Prerogative, has alluded to the history of this coati try in the year 1ti4,5, and to the French Res'alutioe for instances of illustration. In veriewin the dreadful orcurrenees of those unhappy tunes, and particularly in the period of our own history; we are induced to overlook the errors of that unlisrtu= nate Monarch, Charles the First, in the 'tragic catastrophe which had befallen him. But were te calamities of that rei h ni to he attributed to any *ancessions to the claims of the people ? Vaal). play the melancholy fate of that Prince can be Mired, first to the obstinacy with which evert im provement was opposed, to the unbending ilitin cliaation to conform to the spirit of the times, and the progress of mental advancemetit. And let it -not be Forgotten that, when forced into a ntomentury aequiescence to the desire of the nation, the first opportunitv was urixod to add perfid y to Teresal. Aad, my lords, with respect to the French Revo lution, where can we hind a more sijpial and melah eholy exemplitiention of the danger of not yield= inn to those plans of salutary and wholesome correctiou which the defects of ell human iustits lions render absolutely necessary ? And here I cell upou throe who are an particularly attached to the Court, I call upon those Illustrious and Royal Per. hostages opposite to me (the Ilukrs of York, Cutu berlatisl, and Cambridge) who are o active in their opposition to this question, to reflect upon the fallen and prostrate state of the le.,•dtianate Sove reigns of Europe, to consider the laineutable Outage which. has affected some of the most illus trious fiunilies 011 that t'ontiatot. some expelled from the thrones of their fathers, or degraded into the lowest vassalage to the great and inordinate power of France. lie assured - , that much as the unrivalled Conquerer of the European CllllllllCllt nets to his own extensive talents for success, much as he is indebted to the undisputed su sraeity of his pleas, and to the rapidity and discipline of his armies, for his gigantic elevation. hr has had great and powerful auxili aries in the schishnew, the sordid vows, and il liberal jealousies, of the dynasties he has subverted; in the apathy and torpor of the oppressed and despised population over whOm he has t • phed. Convinced as I am of these truths, I conjure ; his 'louse to hesitate before it commits itself with the country, by the rejection of a measure which the people expect, and which, in its operstion„ must tend to alleSiate the pressure of the severe, though unavoidable, burdens under which they labour." Lord 11AWRINDItitr eNprrweed his anxious de sire, that the Bill should be wont to a Committee, where he was assured those parts of it which were considered hostile to the just rights of the Crown would undergo beneficial modifications. Lord 1100 D stated the liistoryof the Bill during the last Session, and concluded by declaring his intention to oppose it. Earl of LAUDIMDAILE explained the reasons why the Bill of last Session was suffered to lie on the Table so long unnoticed. It arose from a delicacy on his part to take the measure prematurely nut of the hands of Ministers, with whom it was lint his wish to run any contest of popularity. The House divided on the amendment, when the numbers were— C•aitent• 59 . 4.-Ptoldes ....:I—Total e 4 Non-cuutents 4s—.Proules 39.—T.441 k 4 Art orang to the culltom of the Illomte of Lordly, the amendment was thetefore negatived, and the Home proceeded into Committee. Another di vision then took place nn the amendment of Lord II twitclanalf, for limiting the npenttion of the Bill to June, 1810, when the numbers were— Far the Ameadmest, sa—Aguitut it, al. The Report way then browsed up, and the Bit was ordered to be read a third t►me on Tuesda. Adjourned at Eleven o'Clot:k. MOUSE OF COMMON& Mr Sir A al, sfter someuhrenstions, withdrew hi. motion Our portposing t►e Pcorhyo Election Committee. The American Counomioners* Bip was read • third tittle Red !moor& The Report from the Committee of Soupt4 w* preseeted, nod the several reeolutiesto minted to. . MA LM EMERY ELEctioN'coMMITTEE, •ALIATILIP POR TRIP mar. gsmorl Stemma, Esq. The Hum li. Lasrettes Lair Gooey me, Esq. T. A. Stmt . % Esq. Janws frestlagisso, P.m. • The Mos. T Coo Sir M. M. Sykes, buil. Henri Slie!h. Esq. Arthur Irtiskrsprar. Esq. Grumr 111rIttro, ko F.sq. Thomas Wood. Fri. Stapktuu ottuu, Es., Ira 4 11 arrender, Dart. wo.t Mims. Cnrevy, hq 1 . 1 , 11 , ts t.jr.u..11 I hottbsuc. , Er]. imrs.sAc:E MOM 111 MAnSTY Mr. SerfriUr t ' .~• %INC prw.rotvd a Ilirmage from olkkh we, 'cad I» the Sperlur. "Grout.! Rex, Majtsty thinks it proper to acquaint the House of C4111•11kOlt., that the King of !Meths Laving resisted e nvy threat and MAI( tumid which lois been employed to engage hint Si the coufedirary of the Powers of the Continent against Great flritaiu, the dominions ut His Sactlish Ma jesty base thereby heroine exposed to inenstled and iumti nest danger ; mod that Hie Mejesty has felt it to be a duty tut tosibent opus His 'Alois-oy, to afford to his Ally the must prompt and riliCaritl4llo support, for the &freer of his dotal ohms. Ili. Nfajcaty las for this purporte catered into a Con resoles with the king of Sweden ; a copy of which be has dirceted to lie laid before the House of Commons, and His klajt sty relit:: oit the wisdom sod Ailierality ut his faithful that they will citable His Majesty to make good his cigs,,rowots *oh an Ally Mauch approved firinitess and li, r bUd." Mr. ('As Nrsc this etl, " That the said Message be referred to a Cunnnitter of supply to-nsurrow." Mr WIIITBRE•11 eyed, that it would be roovenient that the House should hale • copy of the Treaty before them, twine days previous to its being takes into considera tion. Mr. CANN two assorted, that it would beheld before the House, if pousilee, to-morrow. M r.Pots !ON at nominal if, in this Treaty, there were any Cultivation as to His 3lsjcsty the K tag of Sweden adopting 'seasons to render the Orders of Cuswil, of the t ith ut INio vemlier,etficaritins ? - Mr. Castro answered, that that subject formed no part of the present Treaty, it being purely subsidiary. The muljust use them agreed to. PETITIONS AGAINST THE ORDERS IN COUNCIL Mr. Alderman Count presented a Petition from the American merchants in the City of Lon don against the Oulets in Council, tat g• their apprehensions of the dangerous cousequeoces of thew Orders, as being likely to interrupt the peace of the country with the United States of Anierica s which would be rendered the inure prejudicial, as we are at present excluded from the Continent of Europe. That the neutrality of America had been the means of circulating our manufactures, even to our enemies, to whom we had now iso other access. That goods to the amount of 10 millions annually bad been exported through America; which trade the Orders of Council would totally destroy ; and in short that all possibility of intercourse with the test of the world, moist be necessarily annihilated. They therefore prayed flat they might be heard by themselves or their Council against the said Or den; in Council. This Petition was read by the Clerk, and it was moved that it be laid upon the Table. Sir Wu. Currie observed, that the Petitioners were delisted to be merchant* trading'with Arse ries ; but he should think it necertiary to know the sense of the other merchants of the City of Lou don.. Advertisements had been joined, and per- 60115 101 l met this day to the number of 1000, and the Chairman, as be unelerstOod, had decided very fairly, that no Petition should be presented. Au anieuelinctit had been moved, that no Petition should he presented; and it_appeared that three parts out of four of the Meetiag were against any Petition being presented. raider such circum stances, he wished tint the House should under. stand that the Petition now proposed to he Lid upon the TaWe was not the sense of the iii4ority of the men:hunt, of London, nor ev en' the opinion Of the Meeting which had assembled this day. Mr. Aldermen Straw said, he Inwl been present at the meeting alluded to, and, in his opiuiese, the mnjority was as two to one against the Petition being presented, and that the amendment ought to 'save been agreed to. That amendment was. " That in the present critical state of the coati"-, and considering the tiegociat . at present de pending between this country and Americo, it would be extremely ill-timed and improper to present any Petition to Parliament and the question being pot by the worthy Chairmen, it was decided by him, that it wits carried by a ma jority. Were he, therefore, from this to decide genemlly upon the merits of the Orders of Council, as well as of the merits of His Majesty's present Miuisters, in regard to any of their measures (and Ire might allude particularly to the Copeuhagen Expedition), or if the general sense of the country were to be taken in any other way, he might ven ture to say that 9l) persons out of 100 were in fa vour of them. (Hear ! hear ! hear ! frost the 31i nisterial Benches.) Mr. Alderman Castes observed. that he had no reason to donlw die opinions and sentiments of the worthy Alderman also had last spoken, as his I'Mr. Shaw's) last toast after every public dinner, had always been " Prosperity sad success to the present Ministry." Mr. Swim added, that he thought it his duty. when he held the office of Chief Magistrate of the City, to invite to public dinners all His Majesty's Es-Ministers as will us lii. Majesty's present Mi nisters : for instance, at the last Easter entertain ment, it would be yet in the recollection of each of them, that he had done so. (Lor a l losigiOrw, with Ilear hear.' hear! from both sides of t /louse). There were many of the late Ministry of whom he had a high opinion, both as to thew characters and their actions. and be should never forget the service rendered by one Noble Lord. a Member thereof, for his arduous support of the honour and interests of this eonotry, when involved in a most difficult and critical situation. Mr. DARIN n said, he was Chairman of the Meet ing, and was convinced many of the persons were not merchants connected with the V e States of America, a great many being West India merchants, who thought theimelees entitled to he there on amount of the connection of the West Indies with Americo. Upon the whole, therefore, he did not think that the decision of the Meeting was correct. One of the Honourable Gentlemen, who had spoken in favour of the intendment, stated, that the ()relent iu Council were foolish and aliened, and therefore impracticable. Mr. SHAW was proceeding to observe that the Honourable Secomiler did certainly state such an opinion ; when Sir dons N dimes spoke to order, as it was ir reinter to allude to expressions that had passed at another meeting. Mr. \lsadore said, be felt himself interested in that meeting, and bad attended it Mainsequence of the advertisement inserted in the p•blic news papers. He was not only connected with Ameriru in point of commercial interest, lout in family el ler:nee ; but, he trusted, that neither of these con siderations would induce him to overlook the su perior interests of his country. Mani of the gen tleinen connected merely with the Il'est Indies, (ii t end ; and, he conceived, they had a right to do so, end were pedal) justified its declaring their wo. tirneute. Sir CHARLES Pates; observed, that the Orders is Council affected those, merchants who traded I. the Continent more than any other set of in. whatever; and yet they so felt the general likely to be derived from them, that they made t o , complaint, seeing Ain't no other mode could Le adopted so etfeeto t iolly to bring to a proper L ew . log the conteudiiig power*. Mr. Susses: expressed his surprise at the ittl: r ent sentiments of the worthy Aldermen of the City of London. One had said, that there s three persons out of four who rejected the Petino tt —another, that there were two to one. This a. doubt a considerable diminution, being only at tie rate 0f.50 percent.—another had stated, that them were 99 persons out of a too favourable to the Or ders of Council. This was a pretty large allow. once ; hut he believed it was not possible, wider present circumstances, that the majority of t h e Meeting could be otherwise than six to five in op. position to such monstrous proposition. At hat had induced many of them to vote against the Pe. titian • was, that the Orders in Council were so very foolish, that they were impracticable, and th e present circumstances of the country were so mi. ously dangerous, that it was improper to interfere with those who managed them. Mr. Wurraaeao said, that he too was into niohed to hear the various opinions of the worthy Aldermen. and particularly of one who acktios. lodged he did not attend it (Alderman Curtis; ; the more especially, when he discovered no tits:es. sity for their delivering much opinions, as the Peti tion did not purport to proceed from any pasticuler meeting. but merely to be the petition of those wh o signed it. liu discredit should be thrown upon the Petition itself, although they, in their anxiety for the Kings present Ministers, chose thus to asperse it. 'Where was the necessity fur the worthy Aldermen near him (Shaw) iuformine the House what he thought was the general sense of the country, by saying that 99 out of too union. duals acre in favour of the present Ministers':— The word 4. present Ministers," he had no doubt was always in the month of that worthy Alderman, as it would suit his purpose at any time wliatelrr. He sincerely hoped that every Minister would con tinue to partake of his (Mr. Shaw's) bounty, as he had been accustomed so liberally to bestow Notwithstanding these discordant sentiments, he trusted the motion now made would open the decir of this House to a just understanding of the coil sequences of their own measures. . The Cnsitrettoit of the EXCHEQUER said, he was not inclined to object to the Petition, as heeled DO wish to prolong the debate. It was, however, iii his opiition, an important point, that this Home should know the Petition was not the unanimous Petition of the meeting that hud been celled to gether. fie molly . .thonsht that the worthy Alder man (Shaw) had vatiolketorily accovntesl for the support which lie gave to Ministers, when be was Chic f Magistrate of the City of London. Mr. Goanoo Paid, that one was net at all sin prised at the opinions that had been given as to the majority of the meeting, for be really believed there were unin,v inwricanCitintens amongst them, who delivered their sentiments and voted ups, that occasion, lu his manioo, there was a majority of two to one spigot . the Petition. and therriMe it could not be consishireitna. the Petition of the great bode of the merchants trading to America. Mr. Mei.ttsm spoke as if the sense of the majo ritc was against the Petition. Sir ARTHUR En:GOTT thought the West ludis Merchants had us womb occasion to deprecate the Orders of Council us the American Merchants, lust were therefore fully justified in attending the meeting and giving their opinions. Sir ROBERT EELa spoke unfavourably of the Petition, and saistahe complaints rho made by manufacturers wens nut owing to the Orde-rs iu Council, but had their origin in the want of Wes.. sum in the late Administration. . . . Mr. Rose had n objection to the Petition lying upon the Table. He rose particularly to al lude to the distresses of the manufacturers, which he deplored as much as ally max, but he couteoded that they were not owing to the Orders in Couisil, but the measures preliioualy taken. Sir Joan NEWPORT sad, that what the menu recturers asserted was, that those orders went to cotifirm their'distresses, sod lurks them irrtmedi aLik. No other object could be in "the view of Ministers in bringing forward this Bill as a Duty Bill, 'accept to shut out those who had reason to complain of these Orders, from redress of their grievances, and the House from that information which it was competent to have before them. The Hight Honourable Gentleman o?posite (the Chao (tenor of the Excletiner; had given up the duty upon the exportation of salt, merely on account of r the responsil;dity that would attach to him indiii dually. and he was sorry to see that in sommercial business that Right lion. Gentleman did not ador thlitr e eper means of information. Cimino:um' Of the ETC/DAVIS woe' enter ing into an explauation of his motives in withdraw. - ing tile duty upon the exportation of salt, when 1w is miscalled to order by MP. WHITBREAD, who objected to the intro duction of explanations foreign from the subject. The Srlgsolgo decided. that such a practice was competent, where the debate had pres windy guile out of the regular order. The CHAP CELLOR of the EILERVICER consented to withhold any explanation upon that subject till a future occasion, in order not to protract the debate. The question a ns then put, the Petition ordered to be laid upon the table. and to be taken into consideration to-morrow. General Gsseoenx then presented arectified Petition from Liverpool, to the same effect as for merly, which was read by the Clerk. and ordered to be laid upon the table. Some discussion then ensued as to the fixings day for taking this Petition into consideration. dutie: which it was agreed. by General (hiecr'ipe. to ailt Thursday next for hearing Counsel. This tweiwexal 11,14 objected to by Mr. Snail' A lt• Mr. W nitwit-an. Null )Ir. Cars.vr. who um the necessity of eerwilition. no accouut of the 4 den in (*coined llitt being. to Le read a third time and passed, this d. j. C pun de4litto9 etnitet either b Cou Lisa Do:A it was hi Mr.) Lill of oatcht tv flowe II clauses every Ii thew. I Counse ADAM, the h?a M r a ly for tl A di for the The cotwil notgli :%I the acid pari.l Lc meal Bit' . for Lori Svc thir ar,p of tl wry pre VAT we an