The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-03-05 00:00:00

eontra&ed for, anti from the imstance of the lapse of time, state, with greater &corra ls I was formerly disposed to and state of the Supplies and for the present year; I shall trans tience of the Committee by reca the state of the Supplies, don the and afterwards, by showing what parts of the Ways and Means are of a pet - sent description. First, then, with regard to the Supplies: those for the Navy, (exclusive (.1 the ord. trance for sea service, which amounts to 444001 amount to 1i',6177,8371. For the Army an Grcat Britain, 10,209,9671. Fur the Army for Irelan- 1 , „3.44.5,1311. Making a total of 13,643,0961. Far the Barracks in Great Britain, the sum of 506,2371. and For Ireland 459,4501. making a total of 975,6871. The Conuni.sary General's department, which has been deduaed from the Extraordinaries, will amount to 641,5'261. The Army Expenditure, altogether, may therefore be stated at 1 5,46:1,3101. but at the same time the Committee most recalled, that the excess of extraordinaries were the only articles of expenditure which were not brought under the eye of Govei n. meet. That excess has been much more considerable than was formerly waled, sad the Ways and Means already provided, do not provide for that excess, which 1 state at ;93,790L Add to this, that to will be necessary to provide for the various Expeditious already on foot, or which may be after wards in agitation. I shalt therefore state the a,neuut fur that purpose ; for Great Britain 9,950,0001. ,and for Ireland 600,0001. making toge g. tiler the sum of 3,530,0001 being something short of the env anrdsnai in of last year ; but the Cons• mittee will recoiled, that the charge of the Commissary General's Department having been dedigfed, is the cause of its being so.— The total Supplies for the Army will there fore amount to the sum of 19,809,0521.; for the Ordnance, for Great Britain, (includiag 41.2 .3'lol. for Ordnance for Sea Service) the sum rat 3,•..f54,44,61. and for Ireland 479.310 L making t iA. tlier the slim of 3143.7161.; for Miscellaneous Se..vicet for Great 13:iaain the sum of 1,200.0001. aod for Ireland the sun of 66:;,0001. :nuking to gether the sum of 1.666,0001. ; for the Vate of Cre lit for Great Britain the sum of 2,800,0001. and for Ireland the sum of 200,0001. making together the sum of 3,000,0001. Out of tc.ia Vote of tared t it may be necessary here to notice. that there is a aulrsedy actually provided for Russia, tothe amount 0 500.0001. in consequence of strong repreaeat eons made by that caunory. Tms sum was granted only as an advance payment, in cansirmience of the cx . isticig Treaty with tois county ; and there srillrvmai..;, necessary cu pay, in the name of subsi die,„ in e-nsequeace of other two 'navies, namely. the sun of 80,u001. already voted this night to the Kina of Prussia. and the further sum of 230,0001. wall be due to the King of Sweden, in the course of the present year, by the term:, of the Treaty already conadisded with that Ylanar..h. But it will, perhaps, to more regular. to explain this in the Committee of Supply, when I come afterwardi to p-opose a TOCC towards defraying these sums. I o:aly state them at present, to let the Committee see that there wail, in consequence of existing Treaties, be 3 i 0,0001. to be added to the Warner vote of credit for 560,001. already granted and paid. This will make tee whole ct the subsi wet wanted for the prascat year, to amount to 6 I 0,u3C1. bat at the sense time it has been thought proper to take a Vote of Credit to the :shove amount rat a,ao,Got.ol. in order tn enable His Ma jesty to make goad any rata (ordinary demand that may be made. I may add, however. that I am not at present 311%42 of the necessity of any being So mach then for the Vote of Credit, and for the total joint charge of Supplies for Great Britain, amounting in all so 45,396,5751. The separate charges for Gnat Britain, are, first, for the defi ciency of malt, in lb. 200,0001.; secondly, the, interest on Exchequer B Ils, 1,200,0001.;. and. thirdly, the five per cents. 1797, to be paid. off, tonouuting to 359,0001. making altogether, the sum of 1,750,0001, By these several calculations, it will appear, that the total Supplies for Great Britain, will amount to the suns of. 47,146,5751 From this grand total is to be deJuaed the Irish proportion of joint charge and evil list. amounting to 5.515,0: 71. being equal to two-nineteenths of the whoie, which will leave to he defrayed by Great Britain, the suns of 41,600,13961. Now, Sir, I come ni as to explain the state of TIM WAYS AND MEANS. 'Mal Duty, r.-a,u4.4, Jte . su/44w of c.....xadatot Fund W., T-ses . LA.nny • . IrisLatin-,,tauaft Vole .. t 4. Alt L An burinis of Ways wad Means, 18. n; . iO,OOO . 1 V,110U,4100 tU,Ot.so .00 r,t4/0 . 12,4U0,000 $/ OAS ♦mount of Soupltm deg!acted Surplus of Ways and lic+ns . 17.4:47 I have stated, Sir. as a part of these Ways sal Means. the Loan of 10,2(0,0'301. ; it now therefore remains for ass to state the advantageous terms upon which that Loan has yesterday been sub weaved, tor the public. FA. every 1001. Ih...sub scribers ari to receive 701. stuck in the 3 par Cent. Consols, and 701. stuck in the 3 per Cent. Reduced ; the bidding' to be at 101. 121. in the Navy 5 per tie: ts. The interest of the stock so created will be 4i. Its. 7d. ; whereas the interest of the loan for List year, which it will be reculletted was thuu;,bt advantageous, was at the raw of el. 1)s. 7d ; so strat i as comnared with the luau of last year, there is a gain eel 5.. pet cent. which is not to ne thought *considerable. I should think that I had concluded asy duty upon this occasion, by stating the amount at the Supplies, and the Ways and Means, if it bad not been fur the statement which I made f r. so-riy as w the ignore expenditure of the country I am exceedingly happy to observe, that stomach. standing the excess of the Extraordinaries, I still snowier the estimate of thirty-two millio is, as ap plied to the piarnaheiit expenditure id the country, a fair triter —o, keeping in view the probable in. creased price of those articles that are used in the public service. I should wish to make the ground of that concluaion obvious. I have taken tile Sup plies and Ways and Means fog the preierit year, as T nave saes diem ; and I have deduaed from Cie Amid cif StaaPialei, all that was due under the head of 41 #41.111', La 'lr 11117: , ng been since co adJitional circunal enabling me to cy (however mud do so) the mount Ways and Means ft) gress upon the patio pitnlating shortly th future of the Loa ! Arrears and Subsidies, and Extraordinaty Payment havitz done •3. I conctive that the remainder will give rue the amount of the permanent :supplies, which may be wanted hereafter dutiog the %Var. From the Ways and Means is to be dedu.Sed that amount, which I think may be called Extraordinary. in th • peseta year, ir.cluding the Loan and War Tales. 'Fhe balalice I have considerod as perma at a for the nest twenty years." Here the Noble I .o , d entered lite a initiate calculation, to illustrate th• conclusions which he drew, as above stated.— This he thought n:•c'ssary to do, in order to make the Committee understand the principles upon he had formerly st ited his pints of finance. --The Noble Lord then concluded, with moving several Resolutions to the above purpor. On the Resolution, that 16,9;7;83'i1. be the Sup ply los the Navy. Mr. ROSE animadv;:rted upon the statements which the Noble Lord had made when he first brought forward his new plan of finance ; he con tended, that there was a fallacy in representing the sum of thirty-two millions as .sJ•:quare to cover the general expenses of the year, and that it went to lead the public to entertain expectations which he was persuaded would be tar from being realized. Lord H. PF."I - IY, in reply, retested to his first statement upon this subjed. When he stated, that S 2 millions would be sufficient to cover the cm rent expenses of the year, he particularly excluded at the time the contingent aad additional expenses which would be incurred, in the event of war, from Subsidies that might be voted to Foreign Powers ; and he also met.tionect the probable additional ex pellee, arising from the increased price of stores, kc. He denied, therefore, that he had been guilty of any fallacy, or that he could be supposed capable of attempting to lead ttae Hou.e to expeet, that war could be carried on (including probable subsidies), without incurring an additional sum, to the general expenditure, beyond that of 32 millions. He had expressly proposed, that the excess, arising from Subsidies, kc. should be raised, by means of a Sub. sidiasy Loan, or otherwise, as the House should judge fit. As to the probable amount of Subsidies, he had stated. that no certain data could he formed ; as this amount must, necessarily, be bubje ft to such accidents and exigencies, as might arise ; and that to whatever extent they might be granted, they were to be provided for, over and above the annual ex penditure, which be bad calculated as not exceeding St millions. Mr. ROSE admitted the general correflness of the Noble Lord's exp;anarory statement; at the arse time, it certainly did appear to him and others, that the Noble Lord ha.l originally held out an ex pedatioa, that the sum of 32 millions would cover all expatiate; but. notwithstanding this, the Noble Lord bad, since then, obtained a Vote of CteJit, by the issue of Excheeper Bills, to tho amount of 3 millions ; but. as yet, it did not appear, from any thing that had passed in that House, for what pur pow such a sum was called for. beyond the sum of 80,0001. etivansed to the King of Prussia, and other Subsidies to Russia and Sweden, to the amount of about 800,0001. more. Thus, then, there appeared to be an aftual addition of 3 millions to the 32 millions, and this since the fit st Financial Statement of the Noble Lord. about four or five weeks ago. If so. he would ask. what reliance could the I louse place on any statement, relative to !be future expen diture of the country? Laid 11. pEri Y said, hehad already stated, that there would be wanted to be raised, by way of Loan. 14'200,0001. and if be had also stated an advance of three millions, by vote of credit, still that would make no difference as to the Atte on which his finan cial plan was formed. He ideated that he had ever stated, that there would be no call for the advance of subsidies to Foreign Powers ; his statement was, that the sum of thirty.two millions would meet the current expenditure, independent of subsidies, AS well as the increased expense arising from the in creased price of provisions and stores. But whilst he had fixed the sum of thirty-two millions as the most certain datums, as to the amount of the annual expenditure, he was fully aware that other ex relicts would doubtless occur c but still there was Lathing in this to prevent the House from taking the precise slam he had stated; and from his arguing upon that ground. he had already sheen, in the course of the evening, that the actual sta:rd ee pences for the year bad been thirty-one millions and a half, which was 300,0001. within his calcula tion, and that even including the increase of cursor dies, Ws, amounting to betwixt 7 and 800,0004 ; but this increase had arisen. wit as the Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Rose) had supposed he nad insinuated, within a kw weeks, but grew out of a variety of compli cated accounts, which had not been made up when he first brought forward his Filmincial Resolutions; but, even notwithstanding this eonsidetable increase in the amount of the Rxtraordinaries, he still found that he had taken his takulation so lasgely, that he Was still able to Ming the amount of the general ex pen limee within the sum of thirty-one millions and a h df. Upon the whole. therefore, he felt himself fully justified in repeating the assertion. that thirty two millions was the stated expenditure. exclusive of whatever excess of expenditure might arise from the increased price of the articles of provision and stores, and from foreign subsidies. which. in such cases as might occur, the Roux were competent to judge of, and also of the means of making good such expenses. Mr. ROSE declared himself still at a lost to know why such an excess of extra wdinaries should have aiisitn, and to have been unforeseen and unprovided for by the Noble Lord, when he made his first state ment ? anJ a:though the Noble Lord had excluded subsidies and the increased price of provisions, he. still it could not have happened that this price should have so increased within the last four weeks; but now an issue was required of three millions of Exchequer Bills, whilst he only saw a requsitien of 80,0001. to tr.. Kiag of Prussia, and about 600,0001. extrato diearits. Lord H. PE ITY said, that when it was first pro. posed to raise, by way of Loan, 12,200,0001. it was at inc same time is contemplation to raise an ad ditional sum by the issue of Exchequer Bills on a Vote of Cresht ; there was therefore no contradic ton. when he stated the amount of the Loan to be I t!,200,000!., and no excess which had arisen, had give. occasion to the raising of an additional sum by a Vore of Credit. Mr. FELLOVs'ES said, he had understood the original statement of the Nni.):e Lord etaltly as be had now explained it ; and that, exclusive of the Lain of 12,200,0001. there would he wPored three millions more to be raised by Exchequer Bills. Lord H. PETTY, Mr. ROSE, and Mr. FEL LOWES. severally explained. Sir or. Tun I'ON thought that the event had al-. . ready proved the fallacy of the Noble Lord's cal culation, and that the sum of 32 millions would not be sufficient to defray the current expeuces: if the country at large should be led to entertain this opi nion, it would lit.d itself grossly mistaken. He al.° wished to know, whether the 600,0001. to Russia was in consequence of an old treaty ? [To this the N•lble !mid opposite (Howick) nodded assent.] Mr. VA NSITTART said, that when the Noble Lord (Fl. Petty) first brought forward his Financial Resolutions, it was undetermined what should be the amount of the Vote of Credit. 2,400,0001. had been raised by a Vote of Credit last year, and the excess of expenditure beyond the estimates, bad, during that period, amounted to 1,100,0001. ; the 100,0001. to Russia, was in consequence of the winding up of an old account. The resolution was then put, that the sum of 14,200,0r:01. be raised by way of annuity, of which the sum of two millions on the part of Ireland. The several resolutions were then agreed to ; and the House being resumed, they were reported, and Bills ordered to be brought in accordingly. The Sugar Duty and Irish Excise Rills were se verally read a third time and passed. On the Order of the Day being read for the House resolving itself into a Committee, j on the Importation of Tobacco into Ireland ; Mr. Ho SHOUSE in the Chair; Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that in conse quence of the augmentation of the duty on To bacco, and the transfer of the colleSion from the Customs to the Excise, the lush iinpirters were at present liable to an additional inciene of 2J. to every SJ. of the duties ; an increase not within the contemplation of the Legislature. He therefore moved, "That the sum of '2d. out of every Bi. in the duties on Tobacco imported into lieland, do cease and determine.—Agreed to." The Brandy Duty Bill was read a third time and passed. A Clause for offering and allowing Bounties to the captors of ships conveying Slaves from Africa, was proposed and carried in a Committee of the whole House. ROMAN CATHOLIC SEMINARY. Mr. Hobhouse brought up t:lz Report of the Committee of Iti,L Supply. The various resolu- tions having been proposed for the adoption of the House, Mr. PEaCEYAL rose to oppose the grant of 13,0001. sod upwards. to the use of the Catholic Seminary at Maynooth. Since he had last stated his opinion to the House on that subject, he had taken no slight means of acquiring lofotrnation. and the result of his inquiry went more stedfastly to fix the motives of his opposition. It Was not the amount of the sum, increased as it was in the pre sent instance, that solely excited his hintility ; it was in the growing nature of the demand, that he saw the strongest ground of alarm. As the Irish Parliament had thought such a mea sure of policy advisable, he was still willing to re tain the principle of meeting that determination ; indeed, the United Legislature were bound by the principles of good faith to continue the grant. But there was a wed* difference between the allowance of a grant, averaged annually at 0001. and the concurrence i■ demands, which were progressively increasing, and had, in the prior estimate. atually amounted to 13,0001. There was, in his mind, another Very strung ground of oblation to the enlargement of this Catholic Seminary, that it operated to the prejudice of the University of Dublin. The House. by adverting to the Journals of the Irish House of Commons. would find, that it was a growing practice with the Roman Catholic Gentry in Ire land, to send their sons to that University, pre vious to the foundation of the Maynooth Seminary. On a former occasion, when these estimates were ►ub mitted to a Committee of the House, he had ar gued on the great and numerous benefits which would arise from tbe joint education of both Roman Catholics and Protestants, in the same University. It was affirmed, by the Right Hon. Baronet oppo site, (Sir John Newport), that, from the shortness of the period since the relaxation of the penal sta tute, which precluded the education of a Catholic in the University of Dublin, ft could not be ez• peeled that a great number of Catholic students should have embraced that opportunity. But the yawl number. whether great or small, could not idea the question; if the opportunity was taken advantaye of by any Catholics, however few, it went to prove, that in their minds there ex isted no prejudice against a participation with their Protestant countrymen in the same Collegiate edu ' cation. The Journals of the Irish House of Corn mons gave important information upon that point. In perusing them be had found, that at the period when the measure of founding the Maynooth Se minary was submitted to the Irish Path ament, the ' Catholics themselves presented a Pell,ioll against the inexpediency of ezc:uding the l'►arestaats from the option of being educated there. The prayer of that Petition was grounded oa the great natimial benefits a communion of opinion and mutual good Will were so likely to produce. They certainly felt, what every true friend to England and Ire land most feel, that friendship and conciliatiosn would follow, from the professors of the two religions being, as•ociated in their education ; and it was With no light source of regret that the circumstances of the cite made it necessary to de clare, that the opportunity of AL...fling such beneficial consequences was suffered to escape. Had the public money been at that time ••xpended in enlarg ing tile University of Dublin, instead of adopting the polit.y of a separate Institution, a great objet would have been obtained, the benefits arising from which, would be found every day to increase. lode dit Was not saying too much. to assume, that the in terests of the Protestant University appeared sacri ficed to the advancement of the Catholic Seminary. Within a few years, the Professors of the latter Institution were doubled ; that ►s, from nine Pro fes,ors oriyinslly. there were now eighteen ; and for this iner,:.ve there was uo distine notice ever given to the t louse. With rasped to the oilier. or seinis.ary for the education of Laymen. t h ere was something in the formation of it very • consistent ; inasmuch as the priv...te subscription s which the larli menu, y grant for the education Catholic Clergy was founded, were altogether a plied to its support; and thus that annual gran which was intended only as an aid, has cnio be corn the primary and only fund for defraying the e t putts attending the education of the pi r•sthro In the University of Dublin, pi,,sision N os oni made for one hundred persons, including led lows, senior and junior, Scholars and biters whilst the public are called on to defray the et paces of two hundred Roman Catholic Yrofessois and students in the Seminary at !slayilooth I Th a question then was, to what description of per son , was this preference liven I Tu a Clan of subjects; who, in their religious tenets, withhold from time lawful Soveteign the admission s,f his supremacy. But, it has been enntended, that it was wise to pi t , vent the Catholic Priesthood from being exposed t , the mischiefs of a foreign education. It was to hits rather extraordinary to lay so much stress tapas di place of education, when the tine and mot,: ?mu ciple of danger and hostility, existed in the p pies of that religion, in which, whether nt butte ca abroad, they were uniformly educated. He wishrd to have an inquiry instituted into the nature of the': bye.l a ws altogether ; there seemed to him a gre at mystery ahont this institution. Titre was withi n hke a visitorial inspection, no inquiry as to the mode of doetrine and discipline instilled and ezer. cited on a number of youth, clue-WI, if net Mater. lion, at least in herility to the principles of the Pro testant establishment. He felt it his duty toy s . Press on the House, that, during the first years of ihn Catholic limitation, the various grants gn—o by Parliament were founded on Petitions. In the present ease, he could not say whether a Pe iti m was ever presented; hut of this lie was AV/ale, that no Committee was ever appointed to inquire inn the nature and extant of those plans, upon whic4 this application WAS grounded. It was by atcid , st that he hal taken notice of this grant on a for. mer occasion ; the danger of admi.;ing the growi principle, and of this Blouse giving eaccuragemet to such permanent expences And increasing demands had made a considerable impression upon h mind,; en impression which should indu:e him to move, 'that the sum of 10001. be substivitri the sem of 13,0ta01. at present in.:eited in the R , . solution of the Committee." Sir JOHN NEWPOR --" Mr. Speaker, I fool thyself . ble to convince the House, and 1 hope doe Hon. 44Learned Gentleman. on the points of firence between us, by adverting to the Aft; of tLe frisk Parliament, which p itticularly referred to the Ca&olie Seminary at Maynooth. It. indeed, the Leatned Gentleman bad adverted to them, hi. sur. prise that the demand for that institution hal in. creased from the average grant of 80001. would have been considerably lessened ; for he would have found, that the solos voted ay the Irish Parliament, varied almost every year from 8 to 9 and 10.0f41. In fail, it would have been f mid, that, thenb sum of 130001. was the averaged annual grant, et the Irish Parliament expressly recopnised the pricci. plc of varying the amount of the grant,according to times and circumstances. With tespetct to the objec tion of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that the existence, much more the enlargement of the May nooth Sernimity. was prejudicial to the interests of University of Dublin ; this is ae ckosiess. which I by no means admit; but before 1 enter on an investigation of that objedion. 1 beg leave to ap peal to that liberal and manly spirit. which metal the conduct of the Catholics, when, in the Potties alluded to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, they strongly deprecated the intention of ex cluding their Protestant counttyrrsen horn the right of being educated at the College of Maynomb. But what was the true state of the question, and how did the falls folly exemplify that it opeeated in no such way ? That the increase of Cetholics at the University of Dublin had been progressive, ao.i at this moment there was double the number than at any former period. But it was nor in the University of Dublin that the number of Cath ilic students had increased; many of the higher oiders of that body are to be found at the Universities m England—at Edinburgh And Glasgow. that the Hoti aid Learn. ed Gentleman has said, it would have been a wiser policy to have enlarged the University of Dublin, and (14'4:kJ the public money expended an the Maynooth Seminary, to meet the provision fee the education of Catholics there. Enlarge that University, I answer, as you please. and you ad vance not one step to the objcia of your wishes. —And tke reason is obvious, because persons who ate to be instru9ed in the deseirme and disci pline of the Romish faith, persons whose intention and pursuit is to instrul their flocks in cc:tam° ar ticks of faith, and in the observance of certoin re ligious ceremonies, will never b • induced or forced to embrace a system of education foreign from those pursuits, and which, though nut hostile, are very different from the opinions of these whom you would mica as their preceptors. Was the House to adopesuch a line of policy. there would, under the present circumstances of the world, re main to the Catholic but one alternative, namely, no education, no religious observance. They ate. at present, deprived, in a great degree, of foreiti education; the monasteries and instirutioiss, witicit were fmnierly noted for those pursuits. have bee" entirely overturned. To Flanders, Spain, "': Italy. it is impossible Co the Irish Catholic to r - pair for education ; and will nut the House t,Se advantage of such circumstances, and duly appre ciate the great national benefits which must arise from granting to them a domestic education ? To restrict them to the University of Dublin, is in other words to compel them to a state of ignorance. The thing would be an utter impossijnlity ; it is in• deed extravagant to expea Catholic acquiescence to a scheme dire fly in defiance to the religion they profess; nor would the Professors of Trinity Col lege do their duty, unless they performed that part, which the Catholic cot_ll not conscientiously approve / Hear! bra-!) The Honourable and Learnorl Get toonan has assorted, that the accounts. stud his to this branch of the Miscellaneous Ex penditute, have not been vouched. Had lie thought proper to neve extended his inquiries, he would have found, that the Commissioners of the Irn prest Aomutos had as regularly certified this branch of services as of any other. The twa seatinaries have been said to be in a state of qtrAn T3e tear hive Rr tr ihl