The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-01-17 00:00:00

onm II ^ /~ r principle of his present protedure, in not giving any information of the nature of his Motion, or the general object he has ultimately in view." Mr. PERCEVAL--" I wish to be understood, as meaning to reserve to myself the determination of the best shape of bringing the matter forward ; but I have no hesitation in now stating, that I propose to enter into the discussion of the merits, expediency, and adequacy of the Order of the Council, as applied to the occasion of injuring Vie enemy's commerce, and counterading the mis chievous effect of the measures adopted by that enemy to affed our own. I think that that Order does not, in any degree, answer the obje& intended; and I shall, therefore, propose to Parliament, that they should express their opinion of the inadequacy and insufficiency of the measure adopted, in order that by such an opinion finding its way to His Majesty's Councils, it may call from them an ad of greater vigour, from whence some benefit of retaliation, and some benefit of protedion to our Commerce, may be more effectually insured, or be expeCted to he derived. In my opinion, the meat sure which Ministers have advised His Majesty to adopt, is not calculated to produce such beneficial effects as those I have briefly alluded to. Such, then, is the general outline of what I mean to sug gest, but 1 shall not insist upon Wednesday se'n night being the day on which I shall bring this hlotion forward, if the Noble Laid can name one more convenient." Viscount HOWICK then observed, that he thought Thursday se'nnight would be likely to be most convenient. This bein assented to, Thursday se'nnight stands nominated f or Mr. Perceval's motion upon this im portant sobjed. PRINTING OF THE ARMY EITIMATES " Mr. JOHNSTONE—u Sir, I understand that the Army Estimates which were presented to the House last Wednesday, are to be taken into con. sideration on Wednesday next, but as I deem it necessary in fulfilling my duty to the public, to consider minutely the whole particulars of those Estimates. I think that such a duty cannot be fully accomplished, unless the whole of the Papers so laid upon the Table Ise printed for the use of the Mem. hers. I have beer, told that this has nut been a usual muje of proceeding ; but, Sir, when we con sider alat our Army forms so large a proportion of Our adlual expenditure ; and as SO Large a proportion of it is upon this oc,asion for extraordinaries, I think that what occurred formerly, in regard to the Ordnance Estimates, chews the propriety of Fub licity being gisen to these papers. In all cases where large g, ants of the public money were to be paid away, the Members of the House of Com- mans onght to make themselves as fully as ina.- sible masters of the sulkie% Upon these };sounds. therefore, Sir, I move that the Army Estimates, laid before the House upon the I 4th ir,stant, be plintrd for the use of the Members of this The SECRETARY at WAR—" I should hope # that the Hon. Gent. who has just sat down, would content himself with lobo% ing kfte precedent of last year, in printing only the ahoy aft of these Estimates. In the first place, Si,, the Estimates of the present year are so extremely voluminous, that I do not think 'bey could possibly be printed before the tone fled for their consideration Secondly, it is an unusual proceeding to print more than the mere ab str.a, by which Gentlemen are enabled to refer to t he Estimates themselves; there being only two ifsstances to the contrary occurring within the present century. Besides these, there are other reasons for not adopt ing Are plan of printing the Army Estimates every year. hire was a .oka started the other day, in which a Noble Lord opposite (Lord Castlereagh), seemed to concur with tl.e Noble Secretary of State, in admitting, that it was in a certain degree dan gerrus, that any thing should be laid before the public in such arr authentic form, so as to give in formation ro the enemy. In this sentiment I concur also; for although there is in tuft a certain degree of publicity girt, n to important documents, by being upon the table of this Houbet yet, it certainly is it uch greater, if these documents he printed and dto the world. 'I bey may get into all the Net:wipers. so that the enemy might derive the roost an,hentic information, AS to the amount of all our military Lree, and even the particular stations of parts , if it; as for instance, what portion was destined for the defence of Ireland. As lam con vi.rced that all the real purposes of the ii.tormation of the lLose are answered by the painting of the alistraft, which is already ordered, I shall be under iwcessitf of objedthig to the fruition." Mr. CALURAFT--o Ahlronph the Hon. Gen. tlernan who has mad_ this Motion, did, on a former oceAsion, make a charge of improvidence against the Board to which I belong ; yet, as it has been truly stated, that on my Motion, two years ago, the Army Estimates were printed, and not seeing any difference between the two CAWS, 1 shall, notvrith randing his insinuations against me, support the Motion he Las now made." Here the Right Hon Gent. entered into a refutation of the charge to Which he allgieel, which regarded the exportatioo of son-powder from this country to the island of Cey lon, instead of procuring it from the East-Indies, justifying it its a measure arising from the necessity and circumstances of the case, but one which was by no means to be continued. Mr. SIURGES BOURNE said, that the ob jeftion of the Papers being too voluminous to be. printed, was one of the most urgent rea sons for their being so, as it was impossible that Gentlemen could peruse them by seeing them lie on the table. A. to the other objeiftictai, of their communicating information to the enemy, he was inclined to think that it was not a valid one ; as the abstrad itself, which was to be printed, communi cated that very information in a more concise man ner. He could trot help thinking, when he heard such oh)'-aions started against such a reasonable proposal, that the changing the side of the Herne on which some Right Honorable Gentlemen sit, produces a very material change in their sentiments, nut only in regard to the printing of papers when produced, bat in the produltion of them. He never heard of any mischief originating from the printing of such papers, and therefore he should support the Motion. Lord TEMPLE thought this Motion was only an indite,' way of putting off the debate upon these e,tinsat.es. Ii the Opposition really wished to do 5.4 ~L ~`~ go, tiny ottght to state it openly. It was, in his °Orion, impossible that they could be printed be fore Wednesday. Mr. ROSE said, he thought they meld be ac: tually printed and distributed by Monday next. Viscount HOWICK—" Feeling a Motion of this kind not absolutely necessary, no insinuation from the othrr side, as to his changing his opinions with his seat in the House, would make him say, that on the present occasion, the printing of those docu ments was proper. Two years ago, when new mi litary plans were in discussion, such a proposal was acceded to; but was this the case last year! The House were then satisfied with the Abstracts mere ly ; and he could see no proper reason fur its ,be ing otherwise, upon the present oceaston." Mr. PERCEVAL said, he was very glad to hear that the Noble Lord was inclined to abide by such virtue, as not to abandon his opinions, because he had merely changed his seat in the House. lie was sure too that the country would rejoice to he.sr it ; but he must c.oiless, that he saw no reason fur his Lordship opposing such a measure on the present occasion, more than cn a former one, when he sup ported the Motion of a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Calcraft) who was so consistent as to adhere to has original principle and precedent. Viscount HOMO( said, he defied the Right Hon. Gentleman, who had just spoken, to show that by ( Visc , unt Howick) had in the least abandoned those principles which he formerly maintained when in opposition. Where, he would ask, was the ne cessity in the present instance, as there was in the former one? Mr. MONTAGUE approved of the Motion, and said, it was probable the expend* incurred, ultimately, to the cousin y, by not printing these do cuments, would be infinitely greater than the trifling expence of printing, as many Members would be precluded from stating some useful observations or hints on limiting our expenditure. Mr. BIDDULPH, who had at first seconded the Motion, said, that he did so, because he was convinced it was impossible that he COAL' state his sentiments upon these documents, without taking them home with him. Mr. VANSI (TART urged, that it was impos sible they could be printed in time for the discus sion on Wednesday, and it was of tie utmost im portance, that the House should determine upon them on that day, as a great pint of the subsistence of the Army, amounting neatly to a million of 'mo ney, became due on Friday. Lo►d CASTLEREAGH said, that it was an erroneous idea to suppose that the abstrad of the Army was less dangerous for publication than the Estimates themselves. In the Astra°, the ge,szem of our force was stated under three distill& heads : viz. Ist. Guards and G.ln lions ; tdly, Forces in Plantations; and, Sdly, the force arriving in Eng land. 1I the enemy were to reap any advantage from such information, this was surely sufficient. The SECRE I'ARY at WAR added, that when he spoke of the information of the enemy, as being an ol , jettion, he spoke in a certain degree of doubt as to any injury being likely to arise from thes e Pa pers in particular. There was certainly, indeed, al ways a degrte of information communicated abroad, by the mere discussion of such important subjeas in the House. There was, indeed, more publicity given to such matters in LUIS than in any other Go vernment. Mr. JOHNSTONE rose in reply, and said, that his objea in making this motion was, to become master of the declared expenditure of the large sum of money therein stated, not so much with a view to the debate of Wedoesday, but with a view to as certain the general mode adopted by the present Ministers, as .to the expenditure of the public mo ney, not only in our military establishment, but in ether departments, where there was great roam for reformation. lie would venture to say, in answer to the Right Honourable Seere• , tau, that no information would, by the print ing of these papers, be communicated to the enemy, watch they were not enabled to procure by other channels of publications. Was it proper then that the House should be lett in ignorance of a subjett which so materially concerned the country at large, merely because Ministers chose to suggest the pro priety of our being left in the dark, notwithstanding their numerous pledges of reform, which they have so loudly and continually blustered for tl ? He had no doubt but that, on a minute investigation, it would be found, that those who had so unilormly and so perseveringly preached up GS:onomy, have taken patticular care to grant to therm, Ives new and extravagant salaries, to mate otlices and various rxtraordinaries, in►tead of retrencluog from the ex penditures which they formerly so much complained of. It was with that view that he was anxious to bring forward this stifjed with the utmost perapi cuity and exadness. Viscount HOWICK said, that there appeared now to be a contrariety in the objens in view. The Right Hon. Secretary below him oas anxious to bring forward this soiled on Wednesday, from die urgency of the occasion ; chile the Hon. Mem ber, who spoke Last, seemed only anxious to get an opportunity to ascertain how for the pledges of die Administration have been realized, in order that he might after wards pursue such measures as he might judge expedient. If snch be the objeA of the Motion, he should willingly withdraw his opposi tion, as he was extremely anxious that all the measures of the preset.t Government should be most carefully sifted, and even that that Hon. Gentleman should have an early oppoitunity of bringing fm-ward those charges, which he had insinuated were in his contemplation and power, as to exorbitant salaries. He should feel it inconvenient to the country, however, were the discussion upon the sohjed of these estimates to be postponed on account of such printing. It was a matter of regret indeed, that this Mutio was not made when the estimates were first printed. as Ministers were led originally to suppose, that all that would be re quired was the printing of the abstract. The Hon. Gentleman had given no notice of his Motion, and therefore it was irregular; but al he would delay till he had more fully and deliberately considered the nature of the abstract, be was cororinced he would find the general distribution, without the minute details, fully sufficient for the present oc casion. If so, he might make his Motion after. wards, and the House would proceed to the uderation of the question without delay. Mr. P EIiCEVAT. obse s evecl,ttiat if tte T.,tifnwe were to be printed, he should think there would be no objeCtion to the House voting, on Wednesday near, a considerable sum to account, in case they be .it ready in time. Mr. WHI [TREAD said, that it was certainly, at first, his intention to have --77srted the Motion, had it not been for the impossibility of these documents being printed in time, for this proposed consides ation. At the same lime, lie could not help con gratulating the House and the country, that some of the.lion Gentlemen opposite, had so far changed their sentiments and proceedings, as to call now thus loudly for information, although they flrtnerly used so unilormly to ()Neel to it in all its shapes. lf, therefore, the Moron was for an ulterior purpose, there could be no occasion for postponing the con sideration of the l'apeis now upon the table, as they could as well he printed afterveids. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, that nut only the time necessary for print ing was to be taken into consideration, but also the time necessary for the perusal, so that it was wholly imposssible they could be prepared for the discus sion on Wednesday. Since the avowed obje'l of the motion was for an ulterior purpose, they might be printed and circulated after that day, there being no doubt that the abstraet was fully sufficient fur pre sent information. Mr.JOHNSI'ONE then stated, that he was ready to consent to what had been proposed, but he beg ged leave at the same time to state, that it was per. Italy in order, and consistent with the duty of any Member, to propose such a motion as the present one, which he should now, for the reasons stated, withdraw for the present. The Motion VIA., accordingly withdrawn; so that the Army Estimates will be considered on Wed nesday nest. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, ". That there be laid before the House, a Re turn of the effeaive Number of the Volunteers, from the first of Jamiary Mr. C. W. WYNNE, pursuant to his notice of yesterday, obtained leave to bring in a bill for continuing the Alt of the 44th of His present Majesty, enabling the Irish Militia to volunteer their services in the Regular Army. Mr. BIDDULPII begged leave to withdraw his notice of yesterday, respeaing the Abolition of cer tain Fees, acc. ; and mentioned. that he should hereafter name a day for that purpose. Lori FOLKSTONE presented a Petition on be half of the Petitioners against the return of Lord Paget and Mr. Leycester, for the Borough of Mil bourne Port, praying the House to enlarge the time for the parties entering into recognisance, until Tuesday next, upon the grounds. that the Speaker's Order was received until too late to enter into such recogniaarices. After tome conversation, upon the impropriety of the House entertaining a question of this nature, upon sui.h grounds, between Mr. C. %%Wynne, Mr. Leycester, Mr. Dickenson, Mr. Poreeval, and Lord Folkstone, The SI;EAK ER felt it his duty to observe to the House, for their information, as well as other persons concerned, that he did conceive it was only necessary, when an order was made by that House upon such subjeas, to have that order carried by the V. ssei'gers to the Agent in London. From the nature of the business, and the number of Mes senger; belonging to that Hoese, it would be im• possr le to extend such service beyund those limits ; it it were otherwise, the same excuse might be made from all parts of the United Kingdom. And he willed it to_ be understood, that no ptrson should he at liberty to say, that the orders of that House were not properly served. The question for postponing the time for entering into recognizancss was then negatived, without a Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a Petition on behalf of the Right Hon. Isaac Corry, pray:l,g that the time for entering into recognizances upon the Petition against the return for the Borough of Newry, might be enlarged until this day three weeks. The Right Hon. Baronet stated, that the grounds of this Petition wine, that the usual recog nizance* had been transmitted to Ireland, but in consequence of adverse wind-, they were not as yet returned. After a few words from Mr. C.W. WYNNE, against permuting the receipt of stich Pet•tions, except un der special circumstances, the debate upon this sub let, was ordered to be postponed until Tuesday next, upon condition, that the time for reurning thz recognisance' should be extended Irons that day. Mr. STURGES BOURNE presented a similar Petition from Mr. John Hawkins, the Agent for certain Eleectors of the City of Dublin, complaining of the return of the Hight Hon. Henry Grattan, upon the grounds. that it being necessary to serve a notice of such Petition upon the Siting Member, the party had not been able to make such service upoii Mr. Grattan. as that Right Hon. Gentleman could not be found, he having no place of resi dence in Dublin, nor no Agent in London ; bt4 at the time the Messenger weut from hence to Dublin, it was supposed, that Mr. Cirattan hid left Ireland for this kingdom, and by th it means the Messenger had missed him. Upon those grounds, he sought to enlarge the time fur entering into the necessary recognizance. '1 he debate upon this question was also post poned until Tuesday. Upon the Motion of Sir JOHN NEWPORT, the Irish Contested Election Regulation Bill was read a second tinr, and ordered to be committed on Tuesday next. Mr. C. W. ‘V YNNE brought up the Irish Militia Volunteer Bill, which was read a first time, and or dered to be reed a second time on Tuesday next. Mr. Graham presented at the Bar of the House the Inspettor of Convias' Return of the state of the several Conviels upon the River Thames, and at Poi tsmouth.—Ordered to lie on the Table. Upon the Motion of Earl TEMPLE, the House went into the further consideration of the Report 'spun the Qualification Indemnity Bill. The several ..rnendmessts were read, and agreed to, and the Bill irdered to be engrossed, and read a third time on f uesday next. The Committee of Supply, and of Ways and deans, were severally po.iponed to Wedaviday, old the House adjourned until Tuesday nut. THE BItITISH P. LON DON, SATURDAY, immAkv 're !Ave received New York Papers December, the contents of which are Congress met on the Ist, and on the of the Nest:sent. was delivered to etprisses a c , nfident expectation of adjustment of the differences with this t gives a most flattering view of the state ces. Among objects of minor importance, Mends a law to restrain suhjeFts of the' from ernbarking in enter poses hostile t measurewhich appears to have been called • A 'ADA'. expedition, and the recent . Bca•. On the 3d, a Special Message Pa MOE N T WAs delivered to Congress, r ing a temporary suspension of the A,' Session, prohibiting the importation tish manufatatires, upon the ground be a mark of candid disposition on tbt rica, and cf confidence in the tern; with which the Negociation begs-:tt tries had been carried on. A rid :0, was accordingly propos:d in the 1 it , ti ativer, read a third time, and passed This is the latest date of the deba:es but a paragraph in a New York t',i 7 er adds, that t;.e 13i11 h.ts been since pissed Senate. 1.1 the progress of this 11. passed throes :h its several stages w dispatch, these was not a single e ag tinst the principle. The only I rah-atter the sn pension sbould nntil the Ist of July, or VIE. 5: It'll'. 1 ^O• TLe firmer of which in the House of itepresentatives, by rity. The minority amounted only they objected, merely because they t a anspension for a shorter period v•out for the II .at adjustment of all differences the two countries. The 414 h Rulkt:n of t• e (:ran I Array w:I1 found in the last page. It is days! Wet rsr.r, 2IA of December, At which time no adeir of portance, between the French and Russia r, taken place. There had been, however, some misting on the 18th and 19:11; %%Lich has prt:ban given rise to the report of a pneral Bulletin is drawn up with the usual care to the inconveniencies which the F•enclr aura Poland, and by this excess of care is betrayed into not a little inconsistency. The weather, it sAy.:is mild; but measures have been taken to implicit ;No rigour of the troops by a sufficient supply of wine. The Army has al,o the great advantage of g sed llovitals, but is in perfeet health. Thursday morning intercepted dispatches from Adtairel W ILIAUMATZ, at the HAVAIln.th, were raw ceived at the Admiralty. They weer taken from oa board an American ship, by one of Admiral Baser. CFA', cruisers, and sent home from Bermuda, by the Admiral, in the Avow sloop of war. The Aen left the &Vomi t of 74 guns, Capt. Doutin•s, larnpais and a v airrel frizates, cruising off the Caeca. peak, watching the remains of the French squashes', which bad put in there after the Lairicane. Ils homeward boand fleet from the Leeward Isla ids was left on the filth of December, in lat. 30. P. N.10n4. 56.47. W. by the Lacy, Capt. Wit -.tax., from '1 tinkled, which has arrives! at Liverp.,:-!. The report of a great tattle between the Fiench and Russians, upon the Vistula, was reported yes terday with increased confidence. This isitelligeoce is said to have been contained in a letter from the Continent, received by a frurep;...l Minister, so tar back as Monday last. It is added, as Lathes evidence, that illuminations and rejoicings have re cently taken place upon •he Frencn coast ; but ire have seen several letter from Deal :Ind Dover, of Thursday's date, and they are silent upon the sate jed. To this a contrary report has succeeded, which appears to rest upon no better author icy, and to have just the same pretensions to credit. — A letter, dated Portsmouth, 'Thursday evroins, states that an Officer belonging to the Croaker gun. brig, just arrived from of Havre, with dispatches, spoke a neutral Dane, from Caen, on Sunday, sahe says, that it was every where believed in France, MSS BONA r•it cc had been dretdfully deleated in an r.l' mew:A with the Russiars.• On Monday, the . Cr,,, her spoke a Fiench fling vessel, just out of St. Vallery, the drafter of which stated, that the Russians and Prussians had Reeled the Pseudo Artier, and considering it was a Frenchman who said so, it has an air of great prnhalelity. Shortly after, he spoke another Frerch fishing vessel, from KO ft. use people of which stated, that French newspapers had not been published since the 7th instant, .ind it WAS generally believed to be because Boa AAAAAA Was defeated, and it was net wished to be known. These reports by the tacker, are from vcssels which lest Caen on the I Ith, and St. Vallery and Havre on the 12th. But several vessels have arrived in our ports, which kit Flushing oa Friday tne 9th and so fat from having huonght any account of the Russians having been dereates', one of them brought the report of then having rained a vitanry. And farther, had such an event taken place, it was as likely to be known at klushiug on the 9th, As at Caen on the I I th, or St. Vallery on the 12 b. As to that part of the report id the Officer of tf.e Cie ac., which states, that in order to conceal the detain of WC French, no Paper had been published at Paris attar the 7lb e It is WO a is sY r f for ac"-** - • • • [ 3 ll v IT. pees to the :4 of irripart ak , ft .1, the , that EAr. of an ansitA' &is country, A te of the fin, tance, it s ec . he United s tc , k to neutesi s , :ailed for by :•• cmitlua ei S . : ssage from s•, rreniam, Aa of ilia of certain I that it wn • be part of A roper and vi the two c.. Of visit par a e of flepretr •ed oa es in Congrea aer of the sled also in 3iil s W.::: 711 v•th rnasa : : ) . 1= tee quettion w as be cenik.. st of 1) c was ap•rred a great in j. y to conzeit•rd t aid be soLl:ic., trances berer. I Array W.II .1 Virarsp.r. e Adair nt Rustlea•, : ever, soma s ich has prt.ba',l? •al a.lica. , l• 141 care to h;cit •ench staat is