The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1821-05-19 00:00:00

gocnta Juno BILL laillials woUtfk Ite I . sery PropPr souk •—,_ Os ilis l aselloa of Mr. AHERCROMBY, the ranks( Coo. to leave in their hands. arderptipe . sel i hie WO was ?emptied collie obty.stuArothe. ..... lisial/INCELLOIII of the EACH F.QUEE mu* tbuy. ine rropiattom p a*then agreed to. ; the Onirt of tie May forth. Howse resolving 'itself Laws Another resolitipa map Own proposed by the Casamitttoe of 'tap arid Pleas% be mare./ CUANCILLOR of the EXCHEQUER., respecting the ' li Mer. cALcc Reasti irr again, urged - the amodemig. a the repayment of Exchequer bili s , upon w hi c h a giant tromslii OM. . conversation arose between the CHANCRLLOR of the W. p. GILBERT declined premiei tt, while tjta lud. • • . m: v. .cic.REQUER, Mr. pARING, sod air Joys &N OP.. pos Of dot &eli t e: r yas le we a state. mt. o.ltllNlif eiCommeaded the Moo. Neely to roe; about the Exchequer bills granted last year soh* dem lio the fieektek... Every day was fell ofipticce up to refieve the Irish Books.. We cook' not collect sitbe?Tit of May. Weirrodese and Frtdayo_ warn to be the obs erva ti ons i n the gallery. ihipedi asp ; aad be tam e a"dh of Ow C P r dea aet sari- Str J. Newroar observed that the difficulties . maw is be abte to assort the Hon. Illeilahes, that Int hod thrown in the swa b so cisme of briar beard fp any ofthaw, clays, them y y the Commissioners rendered , 4.. is s h ort.' oo i sr k o for hint buts iuy. s s , v bvi s h o ,the grant almost nugatory . Lie begged to be un ..sis;ulsse the Howe i o ii ej eere , if h e i o loOd ri i to have. his derstood dist he meant to throw no imputation on 11111 Amused. He recommended hint Out to defer too these Gentlemen. With many of them he had ail* to his Eight Hoa, Frieod ou his I.ft, but .as. he bid been acquainted. and he felt great pleasure nt . 411Pallo lq• Ili opportunity, to clawed forward maanally, sod claim lie beariug testimony to their c h ar act er ; b u t t h e H ouse . must be 11 , ' that wheel - - - "'e greetest _ - - • COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS. The Order of the D 1r was then read. The CHANCELLOR of the ExcHtuuse. moved % 'that certain papers which he laid on the table, re lating to politic Balances, Unclaimed Dividends, . a t ed the Augmentatiop of Irjsh Batik Stock, be .41NPitg." . - Jl i a l. a te tat h a ec ask iniai ed a lt Zes • tin', as to the period of on the Spoiled Stamps Act ? the answer to by the CHAticaLLoa of the Excite sages, mei Not heard in the gallery. Mr. BARING said, that it was •messure of se , were taxation, instead of giving relief, the hopes of which had been held out. . Mr. Hmeg wished to have the day fixed for the Spoiled Stamps discussion. He should move a. lease which he lied iu vain offered to the Right Hon. Gentleman, for reducing the allowance to country distributors from 4to 4 per cent. While the Right Hon. Gentleman was about to reduce the town allowance from li to I per cent. lie would not neglect his duty to the country, by doing all in his power to reduce the allowauce to the country, distributor. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he could not then fix the day tor diecassing the subject. Sir J. NEWPORT said, that these Bilis ought to have been prepared before the Session commenced. It was unjust in the Right Hon. Gentleman 10 take advantage of his own delay. The Spoiled Stamm Bill was an instrument of grievous audit,- messed taxation tinder the guise of affdrdilig relief. Lord Mft.row had a word to say upon this Bill, which he begged the House to look at. It proposes ed relief to the holders of spoiled stamps. Since, it had been introduced, thirty clauses had bee* added, marked -from A to Z, then commencing again A a, B b, C c; every one a clause of tax iitiOn : and a schedule annexed, which gave cont. pletely new duties. It was necessary to know when this Bill would come under discussion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that it wu not his intention to take the flume by sur prise in this matter. 1.-If-S.Oll bet ween Mr. DENMAN suggested some :i i i the Bill sod the new list of clauses, which would tend to facilitate the business of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and leave the House the opportunity of &cassia% the merits of the new measure. The Swamis* then quitted the Choir. On the first Resolution, for applying the public balances in the Bank and unclaimed dividends to the services of the year— Mr. GRENEELL complained that nearly four millions had been left in the hands of the &sok dar ing the whole of last year, by which the public hal lost 110,0001. reckoning the interest at three per cent. Mr. C. SMITH justified the Bank and the Gear verument for suffering these balance. to lie over. Mr. J. MARTIN thought that • new list of due, claimed dividends should be published. The foe.' ,tact list was seven years old. The crintitry might be -.distressed, but it ought to be above withholding flu property of these dividends from the r.glit , owners. The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER did not remember whether the Bank or the Government published the last list. Mr. BAKING said that the last list had been pub lished by the Batik, and he thought that the great. est pnblicity should be given to them to enable the proper owners to claim them. He considered it a great misfortune that the name of the Bank ' bliould have been inserted in the Resolution, be cause his Hon. Friend behind him could never keep his lust for thinking on the public balances when the Bank was named. He considered that the country owed much to that great Corporation, arid the balances were in general as low as the state of the accouiit between the Bank and the Government would admit. What he pries cipsilly wished to cull the attention -of the House . to was this : great c o mpe n satio n s were ma d e by the Bank to the public fur the charter, and it was distinctly stipulated that they, *lion they obtained it, *tumid be bankers to the Govern ment. And he hoped the House would tit all times be ready to do the same justice to that Corporation us to any other, whose Interests were intrusted to *heir hands. Mr. GREEFELL said, lie had distinctly &toted that he had no intention to can blame on the Bank ; all he contended for was, that we left too much Monty in their hands, and this CUM could be cen *Pried to the public service, which would at lire. *ego be i 1 the utmost advantage. There was no more ienacii why we should not reduce the sum in the hawk 14 . the Bank, than any private itidtvidmil slintilii do with his private booker ; and without violatiog faith with the Bank, be thought that three without df money could be saved to the country. Mr. Belli said, in - these 'us *woe so, men, even of the , probity and moat unblemished characters, under take a public trust, they are often misled by their judgment in the discharge of it. Mr. GRENIELL said he had heard complaints from 'reload respecting the Commissioner., and as the other hand be had heard they had disposed of the grant in every instance where sufficient se. entity was granted. Mr. SPRING Rica said, there were certain rules laid down to regulate their conduct, and he wished to 'have these rules printed, because he knew n strong argument could be founded or. them ; and he felt that he could chew the principle acted on was Calculated to deprive Ireland, if not of the whole, at least of a great part of the advantage it nut intended he should derive from them. But it must be remembered, that Ireland was differently circumstanced from England. Their principal ca pital consisted in the landed property, and if the security were. rejected, she must be deprived of the advantages the Legislature had in view when they made the grant. He made no charge against the Commissioners, beyond the sluggishness that prevented them from taking up the question in a proper point of view. He could prove that relief .wss denied ou the security of five persons ; way further, in one instance, they refused the security of the Government itself. He did not call on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to abandon one single pa&cle of public security, but he did call on him, and earnestly , to devise some measure to mak e t h e grant available to that impoverished country. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER said, it never was the practice of Government to interfere with the Commissioners after they had been up. pointed. The Resolution was then agreed to. The CHANCIALOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, that a sum not exceediug 500,0004 be granted for the Bank of Ireland. Mr. BARING wished to know when it was the in tention of the Right _Hon. Gentleman (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) to lay before the House the financial arrstigements of the present year ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, it would depend on the progress of the - supplies. The House then resumed. Mr. BROODEN reported progress, sod got leave to sit again. - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then mov ed the Order of the Day foe the House resolving itself into • Committee, upon which Mr. CIIETWYND rose. He said,' that at this period of great national distress., when the eyes of the whole nation were auxiouoly directed towards the theist Council of the nation, in hopes of obtain ing some relief, it was melancholy to observe that not a saving or a single shilling had been effected. • If Ministers persevered in their present course, he feared Irons some facts that had been lately dia. closed, if they had not • Reform withins they would have a Revolution from without. He trust -id, however, that no Minister would ever come Jowls to that House with such Eslimates as -bad bevy prettified this year. If such Evti. motes were preiented next year, be should say to the Minister preventing them, as the King said when lie was therm the head of Charles at Windsor, " Take it away, take it away, it is too horrible to look at !"—(Hear, hear, ,hear.) — Notwithstanding all the pledges given by Minister', and all the promises made by various Members to their constituents., there was not the least hope of relief for the country, and there was no saying to what !rug' hdistress, unalloyeel s hy hope, might carry the people. He had but lately returned from the country, and from what he saw there he had eio hesitation in saying, that if something were not done, and done immediately, that most valuable class of society, the middle class, the yeomen of the country, would be completely annihilated. They had heard le great dead since these estimates had been ititroduced about placemen and pen sioners, and Lords and lay-Lords of the Admi ralty, of Commissioners and their deputies, corn, spoudeng clerks, and he did not,lttiow what, iu the various offices. What must be the impression made by these statements out of doors? Must they not inevitably excite discontent and disgust ? --I t should never be forgotten by that House that it atm from the people they received that tnoney ‘ , and to them they should give an account. For these reasons lie should beg leave to move as an amendment— ,. net instruction' be given to the committee, that from a due consideration of the distressed state of Ike etsoutry, they should proceed on a system of the moat rigid 'comity, as far as the UMW maid be effected oil hoot detriomot to the substaatial iuterests of the Empire."—(Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER raid, that the gelleTel principles of the Hun. Gentleman no man could dispute, but lie must deny that the e s timates were rxiiiivagaist.—(4 lough from the f/pposition Beaches.) Mr• MADERLY said it was monstrous to suppose .pllnalion, thus _ lowest. He thought Muleteer should follow the I exempla of Mr. whose prime*. they profess so eseterhain, and sot meet the poor thuging system that leact lien practised of late yessa.— (Hear, hear.) The Marquis of LONDONaItIItY said, he ob ite°l94l4y en iAl abled n 'tier ell tleta .iisa eri . t 9r o make l iA lig iS hlso be ui cau lding e apeeches, winch it was difficult to detect. He is surprised to hese the Hen. Gentleman (Mr. id*r berly). who must be so well acquainted with tbeise subject s . as s e r t that a saving of four millions could l i be effected. The whole expenditure emousited but to twelve, and could he imsgiue that the coon try would be so besotted as ter believe that the Go verumeut of this, great empire could be conducted for eight millions? . itt the Committee he wee ready to meet Gentlemen on the various points of the expenditure, but he must protest Nonni 414 general assertions. Mr. htliZablf explained. He said that in the collection of the revenue and the Civil List a saving of four millionerould be effected. Mr. C•LCRAPT . isaid, that night after night mo tions for reduction had been made, yet not one shilling had been taken from the estimates,, so strongly were they defended by large majorities.— The Noble Lord ought not to have made buy al lusions to high-sounding speeches, for no man was more fluent thee he was in his declarations of eco nomy ; but lie (Mr. Calcraft) would rather see some reduction of this lavish expenditure, than all the speeches of the Noble Lord, or all the resolu- • tions of the Chsncellor of the Exchequer. He thought the countr should feel ind e bt e d t o t h e Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Chetwynd) for the Resolu tion, as well as for the manner •he had introduced it, and if he persevered he should give it his support. Mr. HUSKIMN observed, shat the Hon. Gentle man who lied just set down had resorted to the old argument used by all minorities—ettributhig im proper motives to the majority ; but surely in some instance the majority must Wee been right, for, unless his memory failed him, lie could ,reckon amongst the majority the mime of the Honourable Gentleman himself, and iu other instances he bud staid sway altogether. With respect to the reduc tiou, it could only be effected either in the Civil List or the collection of the revenue. Now the Civil List is settled for the life of the King, atuk therefore cannot be touched ; and although the collection of the revenue was at all times a proper subject to bring before the consideration of Par liament, yet lie apprehended it could , nut be given as an instruction to the Committee. Mr. Ca I.CRAFT explained. Lord Mit.Tost agreed with the Honourable Gen tlemun (Mr. Chetwynd), that the numbers of placemen arid pensioners who sat in that House should he diminished. He should not remove the Noble Secretary of State for Foreign A fairs, whom he hoped always to see e i t h er i n t h at . or t he other House ; 1101 would he rentoec the Chancellor- of the Exchequer, whose preseuce was most necessary; no more should he remove the President of the Board of Trade. Bat if she Right Hon. Gen. tleman (Mr. Huskisson) would cast his eye on the bench behind him, as .well as to the bench mi the floor, he would find some Gentlemen whose pre sence could be very well dispensed with.—(Hear.f The language ramie use of by the Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Chetwynd) was the proper constitutional' .111euguage used by our. Micemtors in the 17th cen tury, and fit to be used by us in the 19th—for he perfectly agreed with that Hon. Gentleman, if they hod not it reform within, they must have it without. ladeed there was at prevent a resolution going foe mord in the country : he meant a revolution its .property, and in • short time he feared the mid. .dliisg class of society would be completely destroyed Mr that that wholesome distribution of property to which this country owed its keener prosperity Would be done away with. He was satisfied that this state of things arose from the ignorance of Ministers as to the state of the country. Mr. Hume thought nothing could be morepreper Akan these discussions on the waste of the public money; and the Right Hon. Gent. (Sir. Huskisson) might have spared the observations about the Civil List; for he could tell him it was not for life, and it should be brought before Parliament before an ' *her year, for lie was surprised at the blindness of the House in granting such an enormous sum. The Noble Marquis (Lnaidonderry) had said, when they wept into a Committee he should discuss the details; byt when they had voted for the Tower and West minster the sum of 63,000/. more than in the time of war, lie should ask the House what there was to he expected from the Committee ? Mr. Huseissom explained. After which the gallery was cleared fot a divi mon, when there appeared— • For the stsepintent Against it - ..- . . the 'whole of the salaries should be nto , fes Aich would make the sum to be granted 10,070. 91. Mr. Wawa said, upon the general question 'he should observe, that idthOugh_the noosing/ setiries of the clerks mod officers were very manly double, that was the cave on paper it*. Frimerhilrei had agrest number of perquisite, und of which neither the House or the Flom Cie&lernan cowl) know much. For instance, it had bees' cus. tosnsey for thew bole of there officers to draw ration* ' of ptovisious for themselves sad faimelses. TAW' was now abolished : so that formerly the alum. Lion of a storekeeper was worth IMO/. mist!) though it nominidly wes worth 5001. only. At Ceylon the establishment had been conridera bly enlarged ; formerly there was only one—mbw there were three establialsinents at that Wwi. With respect to Malta, at the time to which the Member alluded, much old), bu.iness of the Ordnance was done by the army. It was under the consideration of the Msster.deneral to reduce the whole of the desks of the 'storey, he would not idedge himself that it would he dame, but Hie Noble Luke had the matter under consideration. The Hoc. Gentleman had given it as his opinion, that the vole should he reduced, he could only op pose that by saying, that he was of u differtnt opinion. Mr. 13xmitirr thought he had seldom heard a more dangerous doctrine than that which the Hon. Member had now broached. He had stated that s certain number of persons bad been accustomed to rob the public for a great number of years, and when the robbery was detected compen sation was made to them by the Government. —This reminded loin, of a claim which was made in soother place a short time ugo. The Magi strates of Middlesex found the prison at Co!d both-fields w a s infeorted with visit ors o f an im proper description, nll of whom cl limed admission by virtue of Magistrates orders. It was discovered that a clerk et the Public Office regularly handed op the ordeis to the Magistrates for signature, and took a fee for each. When It was found out and a stop put to it, the clerk claimed a compeasation, and slated that bus prede cessors bad received the perquisite. He urged his claim, but was (unlike these Officers of the Ordnance) positively re. frsed it. He was sorry to observe that when questions of economy came before the House they were resisted by a phalanx of placemen. la thedieision which had just taken • place there were out of rixty-ive persons no lea than .ibirly pliteemen. That was a feet which the Haase and the cousitiy ought to betaequainted with. He (objected to voting a single shilling fur the losisu Islands, as it was expressly stipulated to he paid nut of the revenues of the island. Mr. WARD said be would not go at length into an an. ewer to sweeping charges and unfounded assertions, nor exa. mine into robberies (mood oat or picking of pockets, but lie would con6ue himself lis defending the ehiracter•f as busiest men as the Hon. Member himself—lie meant the offieers abroad. He begged to say these was no abuse in the entis• laments which he had alluded to. The perquisites wire al lowed by beads of departments as far bsck as the year 1756. It was cossidered an improper mode of paying them, and was in consequence abolished and the salaries raised. Mr. BENN ETT said, if the Government allowed the prac tice, it was not the lady/ideals, but ibe Government, who were the ruhliere. Mr. WA RD and Mr. BENNETT menially explained. Mr. JOHN SMITH said, the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) se far from dealing fa "weeping chirges, had made a lisle. meat of specific fasts. He was proceeding to state his ins. pension of what Mr. Hume bad stated ton a former evening, when Mr. BROGDEN (the Chairman of the Committee) in formed the Hon. Member it was not regular to advert to a former debate. Mr. HIM E defended himself from the charge of hiving made sweeping assertions, sod restated the charges which be had made against the silficers at Sheerness, fur pillaging coal,, and against Mr. Muter, storekeeper at Frvershaes, on which latter occasion the Ordnmice Board let six months elapse before they sent down to inquire into it. The Cut•. missioners who were sent to Sheerness had suspended the officers against whom the complaint had been made; soul be had little doubt they had not been Queenborotigh men they would have beets dismissed. Mr. W. SMITH said, be had been informed that the Cape of Good Hope, wheu it was in possession of Holland, did net cost the Dutch Governmenct single sliver. If Holland, with her inferior •oval force, could maintain that Colony without expense, he saw no reason why it should be such a heavy expense to this country. Mr. WARD—He did not see how the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Smith) could say Holland had kept the Cape of Good Hope with her inferior naval force, since England had taken it. He repeated Isis farmer statements in reply to the com plaints made against the officers at Sheerness. The wood which was taken was in cunsevence of a misapprehen sion of the Board's °Weis, abolishing the old perquisite of wood. With respect to the Hossonurable .Member's complaint. that the Board delayed inquiring into the charge against the store keeper at fieversham, he as. sinned that they did sot inquire for six months, because they did not repair to the spot for six months, but the fact was that a long correspoudence look place upon it, which not producing any satisfactory molt, the Board *es al length obliged to appoint a Commission. The Hun. Member, -he harl ne doubt, believed the statement which he had made that the person who made the charge against those orneees was dismissed on that account, but be thought there was orsoely another man in England who would believe it. But he was 'misinformed by is person who was accustomed to make charges. He accused tile storekeeper at Fest-raison of forging false vouchers, on this foundation: the warder *as, on • reduction of the establishment, melt eeil to labourer's pay, which was regularly paid and charged ; but against his name his quality of warder remained standing (the list being • printed one), and on that foundation was grounded the charge of forgery. He had also said the storekeeper had per mitted the labourers to be absent three hours a day to mow his grass. The fact was, they were allowed, 011 recessuet of the great hest, to leave off work for three hems in the middle of the day, and they added three hours in the morn ing instead. The whole of the charges were so malignant and so founded In perjury, that the Commissio•ers advised the Board to dismiss him. Majority ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. On our return to the gallery Mr. WARD CRC on his legs, moving that 14,631/. as. be granted to his Majesty for pay of Civil Officers and Clerks in the orduauce Department at foreign stations. Mr. HumE said, he had only one observation to make on this resolution. He found by reference Costal' the establishments abroad were nearly double what they were in the year 1808, a period of active warfare, and therefore one observation would apply to all, namely, that the increase was so great, all ought to be reduced. Malta was in creased by four new clerks. Burbadoes from 487/. Ras increased to upwards of 808/. At Ceylon the Mt:lease was very great ; from 1.1501. which it was in 1808, it was toned to 3,2701. At the lonian Mr. HUM E observed, that the Hon. Getitletnan had ad itted there was what he called one irrtgularilY in the wood, which was taken cnotrary to the most express and precise orders of the Roani. The Illuo.Geotlentaa's speech palliating such a proceeding, was an enemiragemettt to pilfering, and She defence which he had made altogether the most bungling which could lie conceived. Mr. WA RR E thought the observations of the Hon. Members for Shrewsbury and Norwich were deserving of parlicolar attention. Advertiog to what bad heen said (*tweeting the inquiry iuto the alleged malverestion at Fe- I btA m y m a k e " , h e know tint is a Comeetiikee at Supply we, geopeiest I. see UPI*? to flour We at sad Subireg V 4o, l lo erni Orel Ike chi/ aotsbliolopoat, se • tio athainiatriuioa of Joao* la ihmaland, or la soy, oglat WI or kie Ns/eerie diernieigair.—(ther, brit.) w. =ka 111 esplaigoil. • The Committee sites divided as Oho Ameaslatem— A • ea es Deiotily Vida., the nniantlasent.... 31 Ilia original RemoMime was then agreed 10. Da one remdmiasion, Mr. WARD Gloved it rant of 50,0004, foe defraying the lasidemial charges of the tower, and other forts, • s, Pd places ender the Orthousee is Great Britain, and Jersey. Mr. GIPPS wished for some realisation as to the intro. dimities' of a elmege. of 15,0001. fur beds, bedsteads, bed chug, nod other ectutiageaeie• for the barracks, which did nut appear in former 'ultimates. Mr. \YARD mid he could only repeat the explanation he gee. of die same item last year. Formerly this viwerhargesi under the head of Unpiroarted, itrol.was, duriug the war ro continually crying, that it was almost impossible to make the fixed estimate of the amount. But after the rewra of Om army from France, and the sawing of the departmect upon a pernisurat. peace establistoriem, they were enabled to calculate very nearly what ?mss requisite, end it was rhea thought proper to intr.:retiree it into the Ordinary, in which It was atteed last year for the Ant time. Therefore, in point of fact, although there was as apparent increase of 15,0001. is the amount of the Ordinary, yet there was no actual in. creme of expense, as there was a correspouding dimiantion in the Unprovidid. Mr. GIPPS said, he did not quite understand the czars uation of the Hoe. Gentleman, amid would feel obliged to hid, if he would take the votes more in detail. Ile thought 15,0001. an enormous charge in the 6th year of peace, Im beds and bedding for the artillery. Mr. WARD repeated his former explanation, adding, that the unprovidrd was the amount of debt Weltered , by unforeseen expenses, ert.'ela were paid as they were Incurred. out of Cu,.., nut specially provided by Parliameut for the purpose, sort were obliged to be repaid afterwards by a v i rus of Pro liament. Mr. HUME contended that they ought to bare the par. Healers of these estimates mitre hi detail; 15,0001. be sleitdit have thought equal to the supply of bedding fur 20 years to come. There was au item seaward M the tote tinder Mk. eideration of 20,0001. for the pay of artificers., armourers, watchmen, and latiorsrers, st the Tower, Woolwich, mod the onf-elatnins, employed in landing and removing stores. He Wished to know whether that Warded the charges fur work of the muse nature at Gr J mad Tilbery Fort ? Sir. J. SMITH said, he could nut saurtion KO large se amount fur bedding. Ile wished also to know what the con twenties were that were merniuned under this bead—he susitected they formed the largest portion of the vote. Mr. GIPPS said, as no satisfactory explatiatiou had beet, given, he should pr pose to reduce the 15,0001. for the bediline to 10;0001 and to reduce the whole vote by , 23,0001.; and moved an amendment to that edict. Sir U BURGH supported the original resolution. Mr. HUME raid, be wished W know what was comprised Ai the charge of 20,0001. 'which be bad beCere mentioned; and he thought some explaantiou also was necessary as 1,4 the charge of 5,6001. fsr stationery. As there seemed to beta detriminattun to withhold every kind of exp'anatiuu of these Estimate, lie should oppose them until the par- Sailors were foritished. Mr. WARD said, there was no objection to furnish the fullest isiformation If the Committee were unwilliag to agree to the vote without seeing the parthrolsrs, he Institut the smalltat objection to furnish the tradesineit's bills of the last year. The 15,0001. for bedding and contingencies in cluded every-preessary expense in the barrette, except rusts sod candles, which formed a separate item. If tt Pere takes off frOm the Ordinary, it woald only serve to swell the amount of the Unprovided next year. Mr. GIPPS said, lIIISICSS the explanation which he had before asked for wire given, he should meet the seduction. Mr. WARD said, if the Cummittee refused the rote, he most furnieg the tradesmen's accounts. In answer to the question of the Hon. Member opposite (Mr. Fiume), reseccie jug the 20,0001. for the pay of artificers, he bad to state shut it did include Gravesend and Tilbury Fort. Mr. HUME said, that the method of slating it in the Estimates wait must objectionable. Why was lint the labour charged repent/4y for each station, arid the establislimerit of each station set out, diet the House might judge of its propriety. He complained of the establishment of store. keepers •nd ch-rk of the eloper, &c at Gravesend and bury, which cost the country 5701. a year, besidea the lonises, and had no sconce to perform. It was an esta blishment of all masters and no men.—(Lawg/ifer.)—lt was abetted to suppose that they wished the tradesmen's, bills tis be produced; all they sewed was the 'mount of each sepa rate charge, instead of having a variety of articles lumped together iuto one. Mr. MA HEALY said, his objection was to the whole litig ates of administi sties pursued by the Nsible Lord opposite le d his colleagu e s. He thought the House ought to fix a certain sum, and to tell the Ministers that if they could nut carry use the government of the country at that rate, they simsold resign. They bad been going on in too expensive a rptena, which the resources of the country could WI !mixer support; mid, as reduction must come some time or other, the mouser it was effected the better. The Hon. Member instanced the Store Department for the Navy, Arnie, and Ordnance,a s a pregnant poor of the extravagance of the system. Mr. WARD said the attention of Government had been directed to placing the Sloe e depailineut of the Nary, Ord nance, and Commissariat, under distinct Iteads,:and whateser wrist could be effected would no doubt be tried.—(nsor, hear.)—He spoke of comae generally, and without pledging himself as to this or that Aire. The esisblishment at Gravesend and Misery had been spoken of as extravagant and useless. Bet it was a large magazine, containing 15,000 barrels of gunpowder for the supply of ammunition to the ship, of was wise. they dropped down from the river, . a nd he thought a charge of 8701 out extravagant fur a trust which cost Government 70,0001. Mr. BERNAL said. he understood that the ships of ear in we river took in their stores beibre they roeched Graves ends He thought the magazine might, therefore, be re moved to Galleon's Reach or Purffeet. Mr. HUME asked where the magazine in question woo? fur lie understood there was nooe.—(Laegliter ) Mr. WARD maid, he must ',peat that there was a maga gine at Gravesend run Wining 15,000 barrels of gunpowder, sad if the Honourable Member went down be might see W.—. (Laughter.) Mr. HUME complained of the distribution of anagsakoos - , at Purfleet, Tilbury, and (Pater Castle, when one w answer the purpose, and save so many expensive seta meas. Mr. WARD said, it was onee intended to place 00,e barrels in one magazine at Perfect ; bat when the mottle. men and farmers of Essex heard of it, they made each rum plaints of their alarm nod fear or explomoa, damage ti e Board wills design to blow the Thames out of its bed, that: tW were obliged to relinquish the design. Thus when they Wished to fore a large magazine they had to twat .• the hostility of the country Gentlemen ; and when raga, ise took • opposite ',Egypt/tisk, aftermar4a barraek Mei the 4 1 1: 1 I .1 ) 1. I I t 1 • • • • 1 , ) ,ha ..whieh lia __ d _ , ___ ,_,_ ___,..„. ....,,,....„,,,, .„ „.„. .—..— 7 ... rm. many virottemeo ; rend Whets tilt,. 1 in ioire. ii WBB Panto au %/OS /Vg• is. me 10111811 - Mr. B*lll/10 said, in explanation, that there we could go on as we are at present. Ir these were Islands we bed now to pay 1,238/. Clerks of the " spina the expenses( so mousy establislr.sents.--(Largisfet, , engaged the Board in a six months cur- were compelled to distribute it into three or to res teri pon m dence, he thought the obvious mode would have berm rites bad the complaiwis of the Geotleven opposite lams were given to the Bank es an equivalent for the estimates proposed in time of peace, what cheque had been appointed at each of these to have scut some persons et once to implies on the spit, conducting the public business. must see expect in time of war ?—(Hear, hear.)— Woods. He bad been informed, and believed, Fesereham was only forty miles from Loudon. and /war, Leer }+ klownitralsk Aleatbeg sfrenvalid Mr. ituva said it would be uupp t ued, f rom th e fie greatly f eare d t h at if Ministers persevered in that there was no occasion for en estdbli o h m e n t Mr. tiout.ouan— lf lie wa s t o utidendand the stated, that in tbv dUkt imsioo the estiontni of the berrark - ' I' Is A h rter a s i te " wo lli rd n‘ s li fro rt o% lir. T, TIMM Mr. GIPPNi argument of the Hon. Gentleman :(Mr. Baring) , th e p r esent system, something like whet had been exceedi n g 5004 At the Cupe of Good Hop e d s o Hon. Colenticioun dlio had joist sae.olown, be - b u d re.Pee`e* dm" b e . eel kith iii detail, so au t o u ter i ni. i meted that under the Dutch Government thy bet- awed Mi. J. SMITH, the Sisisawithse - 111eMid ise . i t l, that the 'lntik teas some poor company that bad described by the lion. Gentleman (Nlr..Chetwynol) Mere had been two or three new appoinimetota; of Good Hope defrayed out .. . 11 slot it pipiiiing. It could out , howerer, be denied. millet occur. It would be too Inc to economise but he thought a elide at tail depot, to take . 4-- "telot at the Cape 01 its own resources the whole expense of its civil aud mot-. the . Avarua. iliet sinc e 1796 the Proprietors had divided be- when the bed interests of the country were sacri - care of the stores, would be euf fi cient. At Heli- military establi!limeate :to that statement he must use an - '... tweet: them twenty-six niolliotro. 11e should there- fiend. it wes hie firm persuasion, that if proper golind a storekeeper wet charged et an ex-i fe t . . augualilleit denial. P . - . ._"o' r e / t t' re hope the Cha n e l -n o r 0 1' th e E xc h equer would means were resorted to, four million/at least might prose of 2381. 10.. whnoe only duly was to take Mr W. SMITH , and the Chairman, itilim... attend t o the ' suggestion o f has ti on . Friend (Mr. be saved to the cOnistry in the course of one year. charge of .the gunpowder for flung the morning Mr. BROVDEN, and, of coarse it was s for the teas_ ___, ... o .l4efity VOA ths Assesepipuer.. .33 Gierifkll). Evers this would 8 &nay the people, nod restore that and evening gnu. Of all the votes he considered mitten to do as they pleased, but he would pia it to them, Iles 1100ohatios was lam So.. .• 1 Mr. CALCRAPT observed that the Bank were el- conlidence which every man who low his country this se the must extravagant, particularly as the •h r ether h oll • ques.ion t r the . grant Of a of sum ia Taft own assahosail was , for ?A S SN. Ithi. * *d.'" l i: i t e rf e l i. i . e i. ezplie w se of I s e a civi t t tribees l elk.Oriiii 'e l ec t in for the lialeisepiet per tor the thavereart . . Jpo. lowed ‘270,000/. is year fur ctinducting the affairs of must wish to see establielied.—(fieur.Aear.J-1 hue individ ua l (Mr. Armstrong) was six mouths in the o lo r a tea l ear to i. e a ter Ss lo a i i n w ie ,woui , watt a im ile i, u ni t h al l.: 4s. 7 et credit , . Aphi, of retrenchment should conu.;ence with the highest year in England. The Hdn. Member concluded discuniuo of ;In a n s tps e re C o i w eami, " " the Gavernmeist ; and, without wishiug to draw the wi ng , on th e B an k tan tight, he thought that out offices of the State s audpfikeed downwards to the by proptan a g that a reduction of one.fourth from Lord MILTON said, whopper - might be the *plait). of Mr. HUME wished to have some expleisiiiia VOw . ; . .. . • • ~ . • . , .. 11 1 ' t. . ... _ _ -, .. - _ .. • ......._.................... . . . . •