The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1821-02-09 00:00:00

to interrupt • debate entel• whew dee iieviatior Irmo Seder was deer. . - Is wan dimaisiebiseg the ibility of the Leanied Gem. Mr ,wan by entailed! had fallen frone hies to the heal dP the adveleste. . doodler Pleasurable and Learned Gentle 'MN bed, w • former otessioa, addressed the Howse is chat apathy. Yid he had beep lilting to amigo the earmith of the Learned °estimate opposite to the sane *chug; bet It lippeosed that at reseal the Huitiferable Geotlewswo *islet to be comildered as 'Teatime in his capacity of Oft Ishii of Pailitieseat, tad not at as advocate. Slice tilh Inn was &Copped, *hat had been going on all over 'lllth country! *hat bed bees the language held in that Illirouti! what had lees the tenor of the speeches addressed teT.perblie Neeetionesr *hat bit a contitieed deism of inert- Mee sooesst Ministers, and that isoprene, had been cirrulat. •Nfitereth sopa. ofd neetteece in all the Papers that were paid by her Majesty, and which exhibited a degree of been tibetione that was without • •parallel.—(llse, hear.)—lt elleetty was IM Struck for rise Hoe. and Learned Member to • Intirere Melee dwelt, have floe *erre. ' free chase against • les Majesty's Ministers, ind that they should Not lift op a ' laid Itt their owls defillee, With respeet to what he had fetid oboist the withholding of vittaeseee, the Hdo Member 'lied iso Wet topic addressed an 'neswer to the speech of his ' illinettetiltftfttesiel Learned Priced on a former evening, and des las sag petit if Ma (Lord Castlereagh's) When ' Ilte allffilireve Slew tebarged with' amieeesesitity inditatiag 'lli , yesieredisegs:antil %bre regettioes had beets cast spout • the'3lllten'Cotentitelue, hetet, said that the House was not ...• IlltsipOidie that the ease os which ftlioisters founded the I am - Ws' only eollllllellllll/lileirith the case which had - a p preset It mast be remembered, even by the Ilareoetobte Intl. Learned °fattens's hint*lf, that the ' So l t erftaesees that loose lo this country were infamously Ned brutally ill-treated at Dover, aed so much terrified ''that they insisted nim going bark spirt. Others also ' eh° were on their way over, hearisit of this at Paris, • tweed heck, avid yield not be prevailed open to return iii 'Awe, Itet were on their way whets the proceedings were 1 Aiwa. The witnesses to which he had alluded were not ' Mich as were rejected by the Commission, but were 80 1 witnesses whose depoeiticnt they had transmitted, as of • pers.'', who were to be believed, but who afterwards through ;Ater ?rimed to eeme over. He thought It unfair that when jthey were Weed epees esplamations of this soft, they should hlt satipreed Aw tasking them to personal attack,. ''lll, yam MAW Mild, the Noble Lord appealed to Lis ' beiteltereion'of ets essieh upon certain witnesses at Dover ''wail of the recites of ethers from Pada ; now none of those '' 'Teets were ever its his keowledge. With retard to other ' effete** who were said to have been epos the road, be did "'opt haw the fact, our had he ever believed it. .' lied CASTLEREAGH said across the table, It could be . ...rowed ea oath. Mr. HUME said, unless the Noble Lord explained epos . *hat authority be founded his assertion respecting the a inmee it of Papers by the Qeeen, be thought the House • 3 4etil Only esactside that it was as ill-feeeded as the antra l. Moils of the Has. Member fur Surrey or • former night. I Ur. Alderisite WOOD said, that he should aot have said ' .. eiiii ward as ehis eiteasion but fur what had (elk. frau" the ' **Me Lied. 'The tiro Hon. Members for Surrey Mid fur • - Sensetoet seemed to have had large ideas of bills repaid by : Air Majesty, hat op to this time they had bees astable to ' firaish any parrlealars. It had also been said that her Me. jest, bad paid fur the processions, which had been mentally aid indignantly refuted by yi individual who bad Iseawsged one of the most costly ceremonies of that description ; sod now again came the charge of Whist the Press. But be was ready to state, that if the Noble Lord, or say other preens oltatevercoulil prove say such payment, lie smooth! give them oaf Andhra pounds f y shilling so paid by her Majesty. Slily say person with her authority or knowledlte.--(CAtlen.) Witls renemeet to the damwers of bee Majesty to certain Ad -1 Aresees, aestivate Lord had gone down to Canterbury sad to *' Doter, t• seek for matter of reprebrasios is those Amours; '''. but !l a ding that he could nut drown her Majesty to salt water, A. ,"'"was determined to try what fresh water could do. The sewers to th e former Addresses being proved to have beets '''7iferloit4 the Noble Lord went further into the hook, and at pa& 13 found the Asawer to the Wandsworth Address— '''(hit at least he supposed must have beta written. In Joel It was so; and be had referred to the manuscript, • bed feud that instead of " no person was ever freer s• .f styes to her people," in the manuscript it was " to • tee people." The Noble Lord had undoubtedly read the •etract correctly as it was printed in the book; but that •Witu(t was notoriously printed to answer the same purpose • which the Noble Lord had is view in reading the extracts; 4 it was Notoriously incorrect, and wilfully misrepresented the • • flets. lt had been extensively circulated to 'sower the purpose of spreading the delusion, and that be believed '.'otter the patronage of Ministers. Was that conduct .. 'ltreurning of Ststeenteo ?—was that the eoaduct which ' became the head of Administration? The worthy Alderman • then proceeded to notice the supposed attack ito the Italian *itemises at Dover, which he declared to be nothing more : . :isi reality than the exclamation of a few old women in the crowd, which their appearance bad collected, of "Get hems itgain, you Hansa weetches."—(lforraterefront the Mitniehi. reel Bewekes.)—The Noble Lord had said there were eighty • ' witnesses who were afraid to tome over; be would ask what was become of about fi fty who were to Coltuo-gardeu, that' ' had nut been extiained ? —fetters ) 4 • Mr. lIUSKISSON said, that after the challenge of the , ,Has. Alderman, perhaps he might not ion" that aey Papers . . were paid by her Majesty, hut in the Papers which most . warmly advocated her cease the Answers to Addresses were . painted as they were is the book a hich had beer alluded to. He had attached say insportawee to those Aeswers in d. lArallielees, bet only as the Gaeta was made the mouthpiece by which they went uttered. They bad been some time in ..print, mad if futurreet he thrombi it very simile of her Ma . kites friends to allow them to remain umieticed, cake . *led es they were to 'iodate aa eafavearable impression. The Petition was ordered to be printed. „ Mr. PELHAM preeeeteL asunder Feeblest from Spald. . log, is l.incolashire.—Ordered to be rioted. Mr. HUM E presented a similar Petition from the Cot. potation of Perth. He repelled with score the imputation tele* the Sitio lloo.Grolleusesa (il.r. Hashimoto.) had east opus him, of itat•aisey with sedition sales. indeed he so . ir t e ce d any degree o f s t et w h e a t Is; had exercised its the . . Cause of an iojured female; of such •editiesi he should ,tsar be proud. Tile Hun. Gentlemen 'deeded t the . **tidied .election of after questioasiele rhymer, . tea if they ..had been correctly given, when boodiede of sentreces . .oltethit be lowest ila the swum. of her Majesty, teemiug with loyally Arid eapreasive of respect to the King. . Mr. HUSKISSON ireplaiutd. . . The Petition was ordered to be printed dlr. HONIWOOD presented a Pettlios from the Frets. . hold. re of the timely of Kent, similar is prayer to ths foi ripest, sail cumpleining anomie other thiegs a the opera. . t... ( o ids protoicsiittu of Parliameut. The meeting at which if.-. Petition was adopted, iii consequence of the Noble . ~..' ir„oid's' Acts of Fast Session, took place in the Town- . _ 1 . - 11 at Maidslosee, beisg the first time that • ateetieg ' .Attie team, of Kean bad ever been held nut iii the l a • lir. Fos the respectability of the eneesier, and that " 1 W "'Petitiriii forty expire...dies sentinteada, be could vouch; I .s ....1 - 4 1 4 enetimul beteg held up against the Resole tines, which els by i rlflway .Lotatemaist of the waggon train. The Itigli'Mmer“i iefared to can the alerting, because, all be ' ~ retie/ to say. She Requieitiou did out accord with the Mile. Serrate of 14. otsjerity of the Freeholder.; ea such eundort should Sot Now remark at any length, es the subject would .. . I t io!• Ity ght wider ilie particular notice of the House, 'be '' he be4W ' his Hemeetable Felted (Mr. Beaumont) behind him. He 'titeld Ne4lsioree. r. refrain frum uhesteistit, that if High She.; Mrs were to IN allotted to take open theworelves to retest locoeveleeteelitigOipon reqsisitawits legally sad respeette:' ' liiistineel; aiberely from their own ahem or reprice, there wow an run :of the right of rtitiosmed -.(1./ear, heir, hear.)—• He s e pisk4 to the Ilya. Batuabet opp , mite, his Conciliar, it . l • tits *bele 'testify then eras *se eiegle Vika** let blasobeess. Sir aI44IITOISIMLL ireetleithre eipetlifee le the reeeptiel or the Nittioe. Ile slims Felt tiriapte la ex. Pe••••S b 0 ••••• 1 7 I_ o PPierwe At flak MM ;, 111eattorableCaregoe had sit Jadelief Is is Wm* ea th e High libretti, ha obetalil have fee observations to arm With respect to that poled. be would saute _ riff compelled to tall a meeting, wakes the Retisdeir• lion ;resealed to him for that purpose bed beds Ø . Italy stored.. He dad atist-andiw lo imebt_puesksoltb.i. pretty to the geotlemen who sliertirtimi gOisilids; . the grovads oa which the High Sheriff refold! i o coil 1 stetting were, tilt he coosidered it did hot cuaiiit;.. general Wei littPlllll of the county. The Hutto. (Mattresses had stated, slot it was the lint mediae ..... . bad not bees held in the 'opts air le :that coo , seed that tit coosequeitee of die estalteed plait.' is r . it was held, &cereal were preeeuted from ailed* . ' Bat the Hun. Member moat be aware that as the It. . . Blends, it is necessary to have See Magistrates to eilll fording su that wily, aud that they 'mold not.be gut to • Vast is. The Hon. Geo.lerose appealed to Lite. whether ay 4kiesseceitries tor blasphemy had takes place in she real m. Mid was that a reason why they should shot their eyes . .chat was going forward to other pads of theepantry ? 1 1011 M be the obj-ct or she meltaiuf of the =vomited or, *AM tielstieweao, he most ekeeee him if be . eddill mat 9 111.rnilit %Ms Mr. IFONTWOOD explained. Hesidid tat ilicasivi. 0.6 for wishing to have the meeting calico in such a be . , eras in consoqeence of the immediate meeting of Pailie, Bet it was house all over the county that it irsi li place; is fart, it was es oottniuus as the. s i t al, odd,' Ha did dal It bow she condoler of she 'irilf etaaltille justified.. 'A Revelries% most aumeroosty ..a, rdipeplaidg signed had berg preseesed so kiss, heeded by slaiMie all tip Aristocracy of she meaty, and a most respectable body of the gentry and freeholders. The Hue. Baronet oppeeite shakes his bead at she mention of the Aristocracy, bit he would nesse swine of them, four of the Wen Peers Is the cutostry, Thema, Cowper, Jersey, Polksitose„ sad arbeta , and if derileosen did nut then chose* to oppose the meeting, be apprehended the Petition must be received. Sir ROBERT WILSON, as one of the r eeinisl!lisisishs wished so make a few observations. The reasuamislgied ger the Sheriff not cellist' the meeting was, that the requisition did not express the geueral opinion of the curdy s'.letst it was hie bounden day to have called the meeting, its sieskg s io ascertain whether it was the °piston of the comity or net. If Sheriffs were permitted to pursue Ibis lice of conduct, the people sunlit be completely deprived of their liberties. Sir E. X N ATCH ISU IL explained. Dr. LUSH I NGTON observed, that the simple etatemed, which seemed 10 be agreed on on both side', was tibia, that a requisitiora. signed by • moat numerous suit respedabte body of men, had been presented to the Sheriff, bus tic ee oulsitionists were unable so obtain his consent. anti Were also unable to get bee Magistrates so call the meth What ties was the inference to be draw. from ibis sot e ;.. meat ? Why, that if • requi s ition he pretested lo s fitter „ No matter whether it be signed by ,several Seers o' the realm, no matter by what somber of the must respeet4le ' freeholders, sakes Ave Slagistrates of tke cosily tins& 4 r . per to call it, it caned he dune.—(Hear, keen)—lferes Nodes the most levalnable of all privilsges the ri ght orpetilids, la Invaded. The Sheriffs are nominated by the Cretin s the Magistrates are elected to the same otaniser—(eilife of " ilia, ao Pr)—be snalateined that it was so, and iii,eallay parts of the esessaley elected to aoswer political porposiii.— (f hem/roue Ike Oppositions )--Nnet he contended Met Itto Sheriff had so right, either ie principle or justice, to take tato tostaiderdloo nosy of the matters which had beds Muted. These statements eirairseed an spiel.. expressed by as tirnm Prised of hie, whim he did sot then see in his pram,' (bat these laws were as idealist ebrldgment of the rights aid liberties which the people enjoyed before she Noble Lord (Castlereagh) look into his bands the amendwieet of Oise ornatitetiou, by taking away every particle of freedom which this country enjoyed, aid by imposiag laws which be, lee amt. would always consider bed been tyrannically coacted.—. (Hear, ho r.) Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) ruse for the 'purpose Of .swathing tie rugged frost of the H 65. Hosier. 'MISS*. Member then catered iota • justillediots of the late Acts of Parliament (the six Acts), and wished to ask the HIM. Doctor whether previous to the passing those Bille g al Shed, might not refuse to call a meeting ? Sir ROBERT WILSON had nu hesitation Is fineireriag the challenge thrown ens from the Hon. Member, for 'text.. sus to those Bills, if a Sheriff refused to call a meeting, he might he compelled to roll a meeting, sod he had divided meetings under such circumstances. A Member ow the Ministerial side of the Howse (*keen name we could sot leant) spoke in reply to the °Weer.- lions of the Learned Doctor, gamely, that the Magistrates of the costdry were wader the isoininatiois of She Crown. He protested against swede dodder, and considered it an imputatioe out she whole Magistracy of the coonsty. Sir ROBERT HERON agreed wish the Hon. Member that preceded him, that the Lords Lieutenant of coddles were composed of men the most respectable and boomers ble is the country; bat he most also observe that whew these men, its the very deed of lbeir virtue sod parity of is teation, come to discharge that duty .n opposition to the Gorersinteul, no 'natter what their character or Integrity may be, if it should nut meet the wishes of Men is power, they had sees bow they were treated—a mode of treatsieut, however, whichloometimes raises them still higher thee be fore is the estiniatioo of all honest and indepeodent men. Mr. F. PALM ER had to state a circuessisees reload; to she otemioasion of Magistrates which occurred to himself. Ito had applied with's, the last three years (anti he appealed to the Hon. Member fur Wilshire- fur the accuracy of his stala meal) to be appointed a Magistrate of the county, and fur some reason or other he was lint appointed. God knows be did oot expert any profit or emulnnient from the office; be merely applied because it would be as advantage to those in hi s nei g hbourhood. What the reasons might be for not appointing him he could cot know; he could not suppose it was WI account of private character, far that he hoped would stead ea invesligation ; it must :hen be ma actinnat I of those public principles which be always professed. Mr. KENNET (Member for Wiltabire) stated..lbot tie Gel was as Mr. Paltrier had stated it; bet wby it was so be cupid out tell. .. L. rd. PA LM ERSTON observed. that Ilse Lord litittemsot of Wiltshire was owe of lb• moss baw►wrable men is exist. mire. mid &kat be was quite iaespable of say thing despi. sable. Dr. LUSH INGTON observed, In explanation, that be did sot stale the whole of the Masistracy of the etsustry weir nominated by the Clown, but is particular immures, sad this opinion was atiewithened by the statements of the Hun. Grill learnt. Lord CASTLEREAGH staled, that there were la the comity 2011 Magistrates, and it was hard to see the policy of coiling the meeting, wbra there could sot be Ire out of the 200 fonnd to call it. Sir E. kNATCIIBULL exphtined, upon wkhdlibt 00. 1 OM ordered to tie wm the table. Mr. KICE moved, that an Account of all Sown nablitileitir for the last ten years to the Grand Juries of the City Lime. ick, he presented to the House; and also mum An.. l counts relative to the late Treasurer. Mr. EI.LIOE presented a Priiiion.prayinp leave tho'lfillls2 draw a Petition against the Return of the Member Pao du; Borough of Bussiney. He Mould that Mr. Gilbert F - . .. • . Bs rotted to the Bar; which helot(' done— The SPEAKER abed hint—Are you egret to 1114: 'OMNI . verber.v e , who predicated a Petition to this Homw?—?h. Have you any document to prove that a commatiaainta or bankrupt has been law d agaiO.t 31r.Jautsea We Muer —We studs itsiond the witness to Lty No. Mr. LOCK HA BT—Has Hotness any proceediags tottery th at Mr. James Webster luta been declared a bankrupt I—Mir could not hear the answer, r. Mr. 611110111101MNAMMIII‘r tem for Mt. hook Web ster to Mr. B A RT lice, wbeilier behatl sivoli oak tire to oho Mr. ELLICIamoNNI la am affirmatta • i Mid harm to moos obeervidOMP.Blll ler. Umtata y,statiol, bat lot' had remount katteltir dud the Petitioact bad Weep a BTATI OF 1111. 'Me. - EiViiitetx presented a Petition Merchants and Trad e r s o f t h e T own o f Bit. t. praying a full inquiry lege She ilei . mnol (4 - "tient; and the means of removing it. The Oeti- Hamera complained of the deprenied state of coin merce, agriculture, and manufactures. the thi ee C:ftassures from whenee the prosperity of the was derived. The Petitioners prayed that I nishourable House to institute an immediate in quiry, and not to suffer any party interest to influ ence, but to endeavour to find out the hest means of affording • remedy to the distresses under which they leboored. From all the information he could collect, some parts of trade had been improved, hut in Bir. iniugham, since the month of Anvils* kits the main articles of trade had been reduced 21 per (mist ; aopitobsts had reduced their carnal; the traileie Asw were not employed more than three or A w l in a week; mid this they ',tribute to IWO rdepreseed state of the iron manufactures. As to •the causes from whence this proceeded, lie verily believed they were more of a general than a local nature. Therefore, he would not at pm-. sent propose any further steps than by assuring the Host*, that it was a matter of vied importance to the interests of the nation, and one that called fur the serious attention of his Majesty's Ministers and that /louse. He sincerely trusted that the qiiestion would get all that serious consideration to which it was entitled, and that those persons who had borne their calamities with such patience, would obtain relief front the insurmountable distress under which they at present laboured. Mr. LAWILeT wished to make a few observations on the Petition that had been presented by his Hoot. Friend. He had stated that it was most respectably signed. but it was not on that account the, he wished to call the attention of the House to it, but on account of the statements it contained, statements in which all that interests the empire is concerned. These Petitioners, in order to iodises. the House to take the matter into their most serious consideration, divided them selves into !parties in order to ascertain the consumption of all the beef, beer, and other elects. series; and they find that within the last three years there is a felling off of onestbird iu the two articles of beef and beer, and that in bread there .is a considerable diminution, and that a great por tion of the people are supplied nn credit. It was • met his intention to offer any opinions to the House. founded as they must he on very confined local in formatioto ; but. lie understood that a Gentleman in that House, of very considerable talents, was MU,* to undertake it. Mr. LITTLCToW stated, that in the town Birmingham, inure this, in any other in Engle a practice prevailed of issuing paper to obtain cee.: edit; and, in his opinion, this circiime - ance tend ed very mach to create distres.. The Petitioners slate, that their distres-es are not is be traced to she otwastion of the war. .Perhaps it would not * tuituiblered right in his to state an opinio n oiswir so messy pracrical men; but lie was of 'trite *contrary opiuion. During the war the quan tity of pistols,awurds, and bayonets,and other articles .91 this kind, which were furnished from that peculiar *wire, must have been very greet. When we elinsider the liberality of the English Government in fitting out army furniture, and the sums of money expended amongst them, it did ap r pear to him that a very long period must elapse before the chasm shall have been filled up that was occasioned by the cessation of the war.— When we consider the great depression of that branch of trade, agriculture, he could not help feel ing that it must have had a considerable influence on the iron trade, when we reflect on the great quantity of iron used in that way. He complained that at a time when the landholder and all others should be paying such heavy taxes, that the food. holders should be exempt, and if it would not be considered ungracious at the present time, when the nation was weighed down with taxer, to propose a new one, he would suggest that a trx levied nu fundholders would be attended with considerable advantage. Mr. Cuasise observed, that no Petition had ever heen presented to that House more calculated to excite serious alarm. Perhaps in these times of general din ,it was not too much to expect that some mention would be made of this subject in the Speech from the Throne; but, on the coutrares we were informed that the trade of the country was rather in en improving condition. They must therefore suppose that either the Ministers of the Crown have neglected icatituting an inquiry, or that they were afraid to commence it.— Would the Noble Lord have the g oodness to point out in what way or trade over the revenues of the conutry had beenAnigrstveit. For kis . pari, he did not think that titbit one or the other bad occurred, but that the cout.try would be going on from bed to worse. He did not like the palliatives of the Noble Lord ; he thought the danger should be looked manfully in the free. There was one point . on which he agreed with the Noble Lord, and that was, that in no manatee should we impose re urictious on the Bank. It would bring accumulat ed evils upon ; for it could hardly be denied that the return to cash payments had a material influence on our trade. He thought the House 'Wald cull .for a Committee to ievestigate the whole matter. It was quite impossible the comi ery could remain in its present condition, for now the land will birely pay the enormous taxes, tithes, arid poor rates. Ile would ask the Noble Lord at :Who he esiiiteries thereat property of the country ? ".pis the time of Mr. Pitt it was estimated at twenty eight million.: is it now twenty millions ? What wee then the state of poor rates ? Four millions. What are they now ? Eight millions. But the NM& Lord talks of the prosperity of the country : if he, ur any of his Colleague., would get ap and • mate in what that consisted, he should bow with submission and the most complete satisfaction., But is the funded interest to beer none of the Weight while taxes are bearing down all Oben? He could tell the Noble Lord and the House that this was set the opinion of one, bet the covert opinion of stop Bert he fawned to conceal his senti- Intel% 4u Hosooroble Member bad alluded to a ~-_ -..-- • The country tris 1 01114iiitotile to rx explained. resumed, and said, that he would ,aoble Lold (Castlereagh) to say, that !tugs ought to stop where they were when the tusking poputstion of the country were oat of erttS ploy and the farmer could not get on on account of the quantity of taxes. It certainly was not hismisli that the Noble Lord should reirrairr itr ofllce. but if he did. and would go into wa intimry into the causes of the distreve thin rsisted, lie should have his support. He had Huard Hon. Member. say, they were fearful of Reform,. of Catholic Erislineipallon ' and idterfering with the subject of agriculture. lie was only fearful that the country would arrive to a state that it would have nothing to lore. If they went into inquiry. and rie:re slut able to coolie to • result Illsi would amilirtfait the (hater's, still inquiry would satisfy the country. As an agriculturist. lie asked for molting that would not tend to die welfare of the mpire. All he wishd. was, tb.t the coootry should be restored to HMI shoe it was io before the late disastrous will OA . — tatuerd. Mr. W. Peat slid, to his own knowledge the town of Bir,nioehano was in a deplorable state of . distress ; the chief of the tradesmen were in a state . of insolvency, and it was • case that called loudly for inquiry. Mr. lioatosou hoped the House would pardon bins if he pot eider into those topics minutely on the i , tet•ent of-coition. His Honourable Friend, the Member for Stafford, had snide a proposition, which. it carried into effect, would overturn an Act of Parliattpo! , only made two years ago. The' Honourable Gentleman's proposition opposite was most 4,laug , r,,us, the forcible seduction of the in terest of the pailoitel debt. Ii might give some tem porary relief to the agriculturist to get at the great fundholdeo , ; hut whist would he the situation of the small food-holders ? their whole support being wrapped U. to Government securities. It would be doing ',reparable mischief. lie objected to the iiiterference of Ministers, as it would bring • great responatiolity if theta attempted any change in the system ; however, of ally Honourable Gentleman would fairly trrissz forward al.y feasible propmatiou that could be it'opted, hr should have his assist ance. Wass ii right that Government should be told that the) weir hot willing to assist in giving relief, hecause they would not lend themselves to every wild scheme ? Mr. BARING said, he was sorry that the feelings of the Rigt.t Honourable Gentleman should have esrrird him away so much as not to allow him to give any information on the subject. This he was convinced of, that Whatever the distresses of the country might be, they never could be met but by honesty and probity. If Government borrowed money in the time of war at certain interest, and now in tune of pave refuse to fulfil their engagement, there would be no longer probity or honesty in the na tion, for the faith of the country was bound to the general creditor. if any part of the funded pro perty was touched, what would he the consequences in such a country as this? the deeds of their estates would be only worth so much waste paper. Mr. CUMWEN explained. Mr. WRING resumed and raid. that there had been a proposal submitted to the House by an Hon. Friend of leis, and which was approved of by many out of doors, of a general sacrifice to pay off the national debt; but in his opinion the plan was only visionary, fur he knew no way of paying debts than to pay as far as your meet's would go, end thee as an honest man say I cats pay no more. He did not think the picture of the distress of Birmingham overdrawn; he also knew the agri culturists were in great distress. They were now in the sixth year of peace, and there was not a single branch of the resources of the country that was not in a state of distress; every branch of Industry was carried on at • loss. They had come to • question which sought nothing, and the Hon. ember for Cumberland's speech gave him no futformation. The distress was not occasioned by the change from war to peace, for the Petitioners told them that their distresses were less in the year 1818. lu the United States of America, the barrel of flour which used to sell for ten dollars, stow sold fur three dollars and • quarter; and in that immense continent every latch of a dour cause there from Birmingham, and the condition of the Manufacturers of Birmingham were nut bettered. Whatever might be the intention of Parliament. to do their first duty was to look at the Causes of the dis. ties.; for, in reality, the produce of the soil did not sell at a less price than it formerly did; corn was at 60s. a quarter now, and it would bring as touch in return as 80s. a quarter formerly did, he did not !wan in paper, but if it was exchanged for other articles of consumption, and if the farmer was not in debt, lie would find it equally valu able ; but from the great encouragement gives to agriculture during the war the farmers were debt;io they bought farms at • higher rate, much greater than their value, paid part of the purcliere.nioney, and were now unable to pal the remainder. This lie knew wits the case in Somersetshire, and a great many of them were at that moment in gaol. The increased consumption of excisable articles, as stated by the Chancellor se the Exchequer, was easily accouuted for: for a man of fixed property, or the fundholder, his soul, was now worth 1201. and they bad in .creased their consumption of excisable articles accordingly ; 60 with the assessed saxes—for the man of fixed property, who only kept one horse, could now afford to keep two. If there were any proof wanted to shew that this was the cave, they bad only to look to Ireland, where there were few fuudholders, and there the Excise was not isacreased, It was by the means of life drone on society that the consumption of excisable articles had socreased, at the some lime the consumption with the working classes of the people had de creased. It was impoa-itile they evir could get out of the diatre.sed state they wete ill with. out they uudeistood the situatioii they stood in, and that could he only done by inquiry, the first thing they had to look to was, the expen diture of the. Government, and see how much it exceeded what it 'sac in former years. He was not one of those who would starve the servants of the Crown, but attention must be paid to the ex penditure, for there it was that retrenchment was wanted. the Civil List, for instance, since the year 1793, was three-fold ;if they could not go beck ~Oi`?_ y to what it was then, let them go back as far es was possible. It was not a very pleasant thing to be obliged to say, that rents were not what they were. .—Yet, gentlemen kept them up year after year nn hopes they would get better, to the destruction of the wot king farmer. He was of opinion, that i 1 watslif hid" taatiow saints the eur relics, of the country, at the atoms tinse he- might submit something oil the sulject during the See -aim foe - the couirkterwrrotrof ui truant - liter of the whole IttiOse, to stew that around in gold was More than a poofdd, as foreign exchange was 1141; brit if it was thought that it would be an act of injustice to the public creditor he would not press it ; what he meant, was a reships deduction in the peund, oh iti lietrig paid its gold .it the Bank. Mr. said, the first thing the House ought to do waste inquire into the trails of the allegations of the Petition—for if true, there ay feared that them-dos a nolociton iri the ceristotos. Mon of the taticeitteries ill life of one third, whirls wits a circumstance that strongly called fur ostitnry. Mr. Hicartoo rose, but was ',resettled from pro ere 44 ll g from the Hodder* indieposinon of core of shr Hon. Members on the hlinoteriel side of the House (Colonel Paltenhens) who fainted, and was asi.bi•trit out of the House iu a senseless state. Ol der heist; restored— Me. RICARDO again ruse end mid, that he tiered with his Hon. Friend (Mr. Baring) that the present distresses of the country were to be attlibuted to the high taxation, the suddim change from war to peace, and the renewal of cioli payments. His Honourable Friend tried to she* that cora, which only now brought 60s. a quarter, was equal in value at when it brought 80.. He could not agree to this proposition, because the fall its the price of corn had been very severe, and no such fall had taken 'place in any tither coca:- modsly, for according to his atatemesit eons hod fallen its price 45 per cent. If they were to refer to the price of bullion in the year 1804. wheal ngriculture was flourishing. they would find it 5 or 6 per cent. lower thou at preserii.— The prices of bullion were in 1816, 41. 6s. ; in 1818, 41. 2s. ; in 1819, 41. 3a. ; and in March. 1819 (the time of the chief discussiou in the House on the subject), 4/. Is. The difference bet were the prices then end now wits about 4 per omit. From that depreciation. and its degree of pressure during the present difficulties of the country. he allowed Honourable Gentlemen who opposed him to take credit, and no more tines that. • Those Hououruble persons had argued the question s if bullion, at the time of poising the late Bill for fixing the standard, had beets at 5!. or 51. 10S. the prices which prevailed during the latt e r yeara of the war. There wins material difference its the measure of propriety in undertakiog to fix the standard betweeu the periods when gold was at SI. and when it was at 41. Is. 'Had lie held a seat in the House at the former period, he might have hesi tated at attempting to fix the standard of value. For after all, it was the fixing and not the restora tion of the standard at which he bed aimed. -His object was, to put it out of the power of wealthy merchants to CROW such great fluctuations in value as to raise or reduce the price of bullion to 51. 10s. or to 31. 18s. 6d. Such fluctuations must be destructive of all perouisry eugagenteets. His object had been to ioduce the Parliament to fix the value of the currency. The price of -bul lion at the time was 41. ls. and the variation since that period had not been more than four ,per cent., a sacrifice which he conceived to be well worth making for the sake of so important an object as fixing the value of the currency. He-was astonished the Hon. Member for Truman referred Most of the distresses of the country to this regu lation. If such a consequence was attributable to such a cause, why was not there something like the same distress at the time when the prices of bullion were the most fluctuating ? As to the distresses of agriculture, he did not wish to waste the time of the House upon the subject. A great part of that distress arose from the 'effect of the laws passed for the protection of agriculture. It was highly desirable that commodities which ' might be increased or diminished enormously by the occurrence of good or bad seasons, should have a proper opportunity for venting themselves, whets ever the produce should become very abtutchint. Let the House imagine the effect of two or three good seasons on a commodity like grain, the con sumption of which within our own territory was li mited. If there were no corn laws the prices at home would correspond with the markets of .Eu rope. Then. in abundant seasons, as our prices would be within two or three shillings per quarter of the foreign markets. the fall would be trifling, never reaching to more than three or four shillings, and the surplui corn would of course goforth said seek a market in sonic other port of Europe— whereas at present, before corn could be ex ported. it had to fall from the very highs urtifi dal prices given by the corn laws to prices which would he perfectly ruinous before it could be brought into the same markets with the corn of the continent. He thought there was a greet error in Members resuming that the poor rates end ether taxes which had been specified fell exclusively ott agriculture. Taxes fell upon the commo dity produced in all: cases, and consequently were borne chiefly by the cousumers. • If • this were nut the case, what right could cora have to protection soy more than any tliiiig else ' He hoped and trusted that the period was one of only temporary depression fur agricaltere. He knew very well that as to a term of years-it was im possible for farmers to constitute to grow under a full remunerating price. Ile wished to say a few words oo retaining the dotsble standard of gold and silver ; but first he wished to express the pain lie felt at allusions having been made and cheered by the House at attacking the interests of the pub lic creditor. Should that ever take place, for which he contended that there was uo manner of necessity, he hoped that its what the coun try would pay him (the public creditor), they would not delude him doubly, and pay hint la a coin of inferior value. There could •be au really fixed value. but they ought to adopt that which was nearest to a fixed • standard, He es phoned the probable effects Of fluctuations on debt* and •psysamats in the muse of vetaining the double atandard of silver bud gold, and drew so inference in favour of the' Simple standard. In economy lay the only hope of relieving the country from its diEculties. Ile bad little hope of the labours of • •, • . haulms pt 44 hip pitairesied tie ibetitihe i lA, (s, . Wee) Piopi , l4;' Tits. '. bad beanie bi l iattat . ..-1.*:•.0.• , beer K. After same We, iIv.4IIMRCAOIBIIII'. Ilia SPIA fat stliml trio A adheeliaittatataa these stare. a l Mr. LynLrroi awl sloe Optaiiew Wait , ~„ii carried . tbe INtiti a b Mr. CURWEN was oraeral ta be discharild. - call oo the Noble .••..... ' 'r ~:~ ~ ~'; I 7217 se a Member of Pa:Unmet, mod sated wheiler ths Lord had any right to make those personal allssioas? The SPEAKER said, that in answer to the questioa which had been pet by the Honourable and Learned stem. ler he muss my that if ay personal allssions were made which interrapted the freedoinuf debate, they were certainly much oat of order. He threw himself upon the ladalgenee of the House foe sot noticing tlke ettpressioms, perhaps ha " . • - - IEO 1, id i. of Of ff u• ►r of le a Id Ie >••• er re 10 10 It , If le L.e 17 ts of =."A:9& law