The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1825-06-28 00:00:00

- • • • other States—those of the North of Europe for instanceo-were at liberty to bring from different countries their produce, and carry it to England ? Thus, were ships belonging to Swedes or Danes at liberty to proceed up the ;Mediterranean, and bring from France and other countries bounding that sea the produce of their soil and their Industry ? Mr. HUSKISSON was not exactly aware whether the Honour- stir Gentleman meant to inquire what alterations had taken place • in the Navigation Laws, Or to inquire how those laws at the present moment mood. The laws passed in the reign of Charles 11. might 'be considered the origin of our Navigation Lew*, and under those • the ships of other countries were at liberty to bring from foreign wares their produce. with the exception of certain articles, most of which were of considerable weight and bulk, and which were called the enumerated articles. By the Art which his Right Honourable Friend (the Chancellor of' the Exchequer) introduced in the year 18e2, the old law was altered and the enumerated articles were put under new provisions. The produce of Runia—its masts for in- stance—if landed in France. might be brought from that country in French ships. None of the enumerated articles could have been brought in that manner prior to the introduction of his Right lion. Friend's Bill. This and the modifications required by our inter- ' oourse with America, was all the caange which our Navigation Laws underwent since the time of Charles IL The States of America possesied advantages denied to European countries, for they were all free to carry each other's produce. 1,1 - 311: REGIS. Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a petition from John D. flurrsge. Attorney of Southamp•on, cot iplainiog of abuses in the borough of Lyme Regis —Ordered to lie on the table. COMBINATION OF WORKMEN. On the question that the House should resolve itself into a Com- mittee an the Combination of iVorkmen Bill, Mr. WALLACE rose.—lt appeared to him that the only prim- ' tical course was, to inquire what the actual state of combination in the country was; to examine what was the mature and extent of its operation ; to see how far it affected the good order and well- ,,,inring of society, as well as the condition of trade and the prosperity Of the manufacturing interest ; and finally, to determine, as far as the information before them would permit, witether and how far the removal of the restrictions which existed previous to last Ses- sion had been attended with benefit or otherwee ; whether had riot the effect of encouraging rather than diminishing the system of combination throughout the country ; and whether in truth there had not actually been a great increase—an almost unbounded ope- , nage of in rower and affects. Of thirteen roses which had recently - ' cone under his observation, not less than seven had arisen since last Seesion. it would be heard with just feelings of apprehension, that those combinations were everywhere formed with dangerous • art and contrivance. They were constituted with perfect regularity; they hail their presidents, their secretaries, and their committees. Nothing in his opinion could be more injurious to the true inte- rests of trade, than that a few individuals s'sould in that way mo- t nopolise influence and power which they were so ill qualified to use ; and it was not to be doubted, that in all such combinations, much, if not all the real pewee ' vested in a few busy individuals. Lord Bacon had said, that in Council It was material whether the Council sat at a long or a round table--for if at the former, a few at the upper end managed all as they thought proper. Those com• binations, so deetrunivt aa be conceived to the best interests of trade, 'assumed to themselves the most sweeping powers. They were to tectete the nature and hours of employment; they were to deter- mine the amount of wages; by them the number of apprentices wee:. to be regulated. and the persons from whom they would except employment fixed upon. The managers of those com- binations took upon themselves to govern, from the merest tr'lle, up to the enmity of pointing out objects for assassina- tion. That dangerous system was organised throughout England, to an extent most dangerous--an extent which, it allowed unre- strained operation, would at no distant period deprive the trade of this country of meet of the advantages which it at present enjoyed. Ire Ireland the effects of combinations were most severely telt.— l'hey had produced in that country not less than between seventy and eighty outrages, in full forty of which severe bodily injuries ' had been sustained, and there had been three eases of murder in ' open day. In Scotland, combinations were carried on upon a sys- tem still more regularly organized. He would call the attention of the House to the oath taken in Scotland, by the members of those Associations. He then read the oath, which was nearly to this et , - tett :—" I, A. B. do voluntarily sweat in the awful presence of Almighty God, that I will execute with zeal and alacrity all which I may be commanded to do by a majority of the Society, even though called upon to assassinate those who may deserve that pn- nishment, and that 1 will freely contribute for the support of bre- , Oren out of employment ; and finally, that I will not divulge any portion of this oath, unless appointed to administer it on the ad- . mission of a member." Such w A the obligation by which those persons bound themselves ; nor could he conceive any thing more • dangerous to the interests of trade, or the peace of society. He next adverted to the confession of a man named John King, who had been convicted of a conspiracy to commit murder. From the confession of that man it appeared, that there were belonging to the Association with which he was connected, two Committees, and one of these was bound, from time to time, to make reports to the other, which eras called the Select Committee, and these were r:en not known to the operatives, who held their meetings every Saturday. The statements generally, of the facts which disclosed the economy of these Associations, were derived from. ice most unquestionable sources—from the evidence of dis- nterotted persons, in the coune of judicial proceedings. As- sociations of that nature were particularly seductive to the work.' ire, chases; men were led on step by step, from beginnings almost imperceptible, to crimes the most revolting and atrocious. alley always began by proposing objects the most moderate, and apparently laudable. for the purpose of including within their ranks as many of the operatives as thew possibly could ; they then proceeded from demands to menaces, and from those to acts of vio- lence and outrage. Previous to the Bill of lost Session, the opera- tive!' were under the impression that their entering into those corn. • binations were something in their naturs illegal, but from the time that Bill was passed, they naturally enough imagined that it be- came as well praiseworthy as legal, to enter into those associations. In fact, they now thought it almost, mrritorioss to join them. lie was not • friend to the statutes which the bill of last Session had trended ; but he owned that he wished for a restoration in part, at !east; of the common law as it existed before the passing of those Statutes ; still he was not for going the full length of the old corn. noon law. The Bill of last year went beyond the resolutions of the eommitteem, and so far he disapproved of it. If they were allowed to continue in their present career, it would destroy the system of competition, on which the prosperity of British trade depended. In Ireland there had been a combination to prevent the introduc- tion of English iron ; and at Newcastle there had been one to prevent the use of blocks prepared by machinery in London. I iader the operation of such circumstances he did not wonder at the interference of the operative classes with the employment of apprentices, sod their endeavour to subject all the masters to their own terms. Neither was it surprising they were less disposed to meet their employees upon equal terms than formerly. This was all attributable to the influence of illegal combinations and tiesoria. mons upon the operatives; for it was impossible to conceive but • that their own interest and that of their families, would cause the workmen to return to their employment, if they were not pre- vented by the apprehensions of the violence to be expected from these associations. The consequences likely to ensue from oppo- sition to the wishes of such associations must be Indeed formi- . liable, to produce these effects upon the minds of the men. This was only a picture to what was passing all over the country, and he would put it to the lion. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) whether it was not for the interests of the workmen, as well as the masters, to abolish such a state of thing's The first step he proposed to take to remedy the evil was to define in the intended Act for what purposes associations were to be permitted among masters and men. Coder the operation of the common law all combinations of what nature soviet were illegal. The Bill proceeded on that principle, but made exceptions in favour of one particular association, neces. asry in point of Justice to the interests of individuals. One great bond of trade societies consisted in the collection of subscription., to be appropriated to the support of persons out of employment in their rerpeCtive occupations. Those subscriptions were undoubt- edly, in annoy cases, appropriated to the support of men unem- ployed voluntarily, and by means of combination; but in other instances they were applied to praiseworthy objects : so that there would exist a great difficulty in attempting to specify all the parti- cular instances of illegality or otherwise. In framing the Bill of 'set year he believed the same difficulty had been felt in distin- guishing the difference between the two last named objects of associations. It would be unreasonable not to permit combination I toe purposes contemplated in societies for the regulation of trade, t' - hours of labour, and other necessary objects. But in all calms I l t o: c ompulsion, or where combinations were entered into to the of effecting any purpose by means of threats, intimidation violence, which mode. be lamented, was that usually adopted by workmen, he wished the law to cheek and prevent such anode- nuns. In ....eh cases be was desirous that a summary jurisdiction should be adopted and applied ;an further made more easy of • application, by doing away with the necessity of a previous infor- mation, and rendering conviction possible on the evidence of one witness only. lie thought the lion. Gentleman himself could feel no objection to the proposed alteration. lie had now stated the principal features of the Bill. and he was aware the expectations of many persons would be inevitably disappointed. Many might think that a system of Parliamentary vengeance, rigour, and seve- rity should have been applied. But he thought the present was not '1 a cane in which such a course of proceeding was necessary, and thoueh he doubted not the courage of Government when necessary, yet on the present occasion he was more disposed to err on the nee of clemeecy than severity. If necessary, he had no doubt of the willingness of Parliament to a. and vindicate its authority. If throueli aey unhappy obstructions to trade, by meant of combine. • tem, the consumption of this country could not be supplied by home manufacture, we would then have to look to foreign countries for a supply. This was a difficulty which, he trusted, would never occur; but he thought the present Bill calculated to avert the ne- cessity of such a proceeding, and that conviction had operated to induce hiss to loing it forward. It. ROBERTSON rose amidst loud calls for Mr. Hutne, and said, lie felt it his duty to oppose some theories on commercial eubjects, which had of late become fashionable in that House. cnentry had originally, in the early period of its history, em. pined itself principally in the importation of manufactured poi. duce from foreign countries; but as it advanced in knowledge and eiv.litrion, it relinquished that practice for the Importation of the raw material, which it afterwards manufectured and sent forth into wrtien markets. It appeared, however, of late to be the policy of 4:overnment to attempt to aggrandise the commerce dr foreign batons t a policy in the propriety of which he could not concur, looking upon the opening of our port., and other similar measures, as a most utiscbievous proceeding. Indeed the state of the coun. if r lIIISKISSON rose to order. The lion. Member would recollect the the state of the country was not the question before the House. The SPEAKER could not precisely determine whether the Hen. 3/ember was in or out et order. However, be could say that he .. e f , . .111, had been for come time attentively listening to hear in what man ner the lion. Member proposed to Ming his history of the commerce all over Europe to bear upon the subject before the House. (A laugh.) But though it might be difficult to eay positively, he thought the line of argument adopted by the lion. Member had no very strict reference to the Bill before the House. (A laugh.) Mr. ROBERTSON wished to show that the commerce of the country had of late years diminished, instead of increasing. The official value of the exports in 1815, wss 60 millions, and in 1022, 53 millions , leaving en apparent Increase on the official value cif 3 millions ; but the actual value of imports at these periods was for the former 41 millions, and for the latter 311 millions, 'hewing a decrees: of 5 millions. Mr. Secretary PEEL rose to interrupt the lion. Member. This might be a very good line of argument on the subject of the-Navi gation Laws; but the Hon. Member would recollect, it was the Combination lmws that were before the House; and he could not perceive any connecting link likely to unite his observations with the conclusion he might be expected to come to. Indeed, in a certain mock debate, he (Mr. Peel) had read, a speaker was intro duced, discussing the state of the Phoenicians, fir the purpose of elucidating the American war (a laugh), and, perhaps, on the same principle, the Honourable Member's arguments might be thought to bear on the subject. (A laugh.) However, he wished to sub mit to the Honourable hieniber'e consideration, that the Combina tion and not the Navigation Laws were the question at issue., (Hear, hear.) Mr. ROBERTSON resumed—There we.s no mode of determin ing the rate of wages, except by the demand for operations. High wages did not confer happiness, but on the contrary, by encouraging idleness, occasioned want and misery to workmen and their families. If we wished to meet foreign nations in articles of com merce and manufacture, the law now proposed would put it out of our power to compete with them. Mr. 11U3IE thought the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Wallace) had somewhat over coloured his view of the state of the country, as it regarded the disputes between operatives and their employers. He, therefore, felt bound to notice his observations, and first, he objected to the Honourable Gentleman's proceeding in never once adverting to the possibility of a combination being formed among' . the masters. The Honourable Gentleman Appeared disposed to favour the one class at the expense of the other, and on that ac count, he (Mr. Hume) felt inclined to receive his observations ' under certain limitations. Farther, he differed entirely with the lionoursale Gentleman on the subject of the illegality of all com binatione; for certainly it should not be forbidden to men or masters to form associations relative to several branches of trade, such as the hours of work, and many other things of importance to ' the manufacturing interests. While he was anxious to leave in the hands of the employers and their workmen the right of dis posing of thei: capital and their labour to the beet advantage, he was tree to allow abuses might exist, and it was theii duty to remedy them. He could assure the Honourable Member, that if any advantage were afforded to the men over the masters in the Act of last Session, it lead resulted from the imperfect manner in which the , Bill had bon drawn up, and not from the intention of the Committee, what was ,disposed to do equal justice of both parties. With regard to the examples of combination which had since oc curred, lie did not think them at all deserving of the epithets be . stowed on then, ty the lion. Gent.; and he thought on a perusal of the evidence on tke tableof the llouse,it would be found the character given of these associations had not been deserved. In the case of the paper-makes, no violence had been resorted to by the men. The masters in London had refused to give the advanced wages which had been snowed in Kent. Indeed the whole case made in favour of the opetatives : there hail been no increase of wages fur the last three yeaw and a half ; the workmen demanded an increase equivalent to an addition of three shillings a week for their labour, and which was filly warranted by the raised prices of the necessa ries of life. This demand was at once and cheerfully acceded to in Kent, but refused by the employers of Hertfordshire and London, and a strike in consequence took place. With regard to the coop ers, things were nearly as favouraele. The shipwrights had com mitted no acts of violence. With them, the question was respecting a regulation alleged to have existed twenty years. It was no ques tion of wages, sad if any blame existed it attached to the masters. who had introduced a new practice in the trade for the purpose of ' putting down the Union Society. The men had accordingly de , dined to work under these new regulations. On the 90th May, the operatives offeree to go into the yard of Mr. Gordon, but were ' refined employment unless the Society were broken up. Last Saturday, the worktr.en proposed to return to their labour in the yards of Messrs. Wigrsm and Greene, and those gentlemen were willing to receive them back, but the other masters would not per mit it. It was extremely hard the men should be blamed, when their employers were the culpable parties. Under bitch circumstances it was toe much for the Honourable Gentleman to lay blame on the men for tyrranny and cruelty. A due attention had not been paid to the petitions of the mechanics; here were 97 petitions against the re-enactment of the Combination Laws ; these petitions came from no less titan one hundred thou sand men, all praying to be heard before the Committee, and stating that now a better understanding was beginning to prevail between the masters and the men ; was it fair (asked the Honour. able Member) that letters from the masters to the Right Honour able the Home Secretary should be noticed and paid attention to, whilst the solemn petitions of the rnenlshould be, like so much wastepaper, unnoticed and disregarded? (Hear. hear.) A better . and more mild feeling seemed to pervade the men ; there was now less violence in their proceedings. Was it nothing that the cha racter of the strikes was now different from what they had formerly been ? Now all was public—secret oaths were no longer taken.— He was free to admit the faults of the operatives, but begged the House to keep in recielection that the masters were in some degree culpable. It had been objected to the operatives, by the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Wallace), that their proceedings were marked by a formidable regularity, and that their conduct was gelded by certain fixed rules. If the Right Hon. Gentleman had attended their meetings, lie would most unquestionably have given to them a different character. It had been urged against them that they had their presidents, and their secretarial, and their com mittees. Now he (Mr. flume) thought that if any one thing more than another were in favour of the operatives, it was the marked regularity, and the extreme accuracy of their rules. Some of these rules might, it was true, be absurd, but (said the Hon. Member) this is an imputation from which we ourselves are not free ; and nothing can be more common than that we should one day peas a decree and on another revoke it as absurd. (Hear, and a laugh.) He was free to admit also that some of their laws might be con tradictory; then was it fair not to give them an opportunity of reconsidering them ; and he was convinced that had that opportu nity been afforded to the mechanics, not one of the objectionable by.laws would now remain on their books. In his opinion much of the outcry and disturbance was attributable to causes far dif. ferent from a spirit of turbulence among die men. There were Laws on the Statute-book for keeping up the price of pro. ' visions. such as the Corn Laws. Now provisions had lately risen from thirty to sixty per cent. Was it too much that wages should be regulated accordingly ? Was it too much that the la bourer. whose only propert was his time, should be allowed to make the best bargain of it ? ? The masters and they had interests directly opposed ; it was the interest of the one party to give as little as possible, and of the other to get as much as they could. The Hon. Member contended that disturbance was not so general as had been represented, for in nine cases out of ten, the masters had consented to the terms proposed to them by the men ; he thought the House would have done better if they had not proceeded I to print the es idence, and by so doing, brand certain persons through the country. lie that day got a letter, saying that some ; portions of the evidence were false, and in one particular instance, I , he was assured that the testiniony of a witness setting forth that oaths had been administered, binding certain men to commit mur der, was false, for that no such oaths had been either administered or taken. When such contradictions as these existed, would it not ; be right so examine some of the accused persons before the commit , tee? (Hear.) But there were some facts come to light which it . was of importance to have known. It appeared that the masters of Glasgow had offered 1,2001. to procure evidence against the opera , lives, and that on the evening before some men were to be punished i for acts connected with combination. Applications to that effect had been made to them on the part of the masters. He entreated 'the House, therefore, to attach no weight to the Glasgow evidence, and to look on it merely as an es.parte statement, inasmuch as' none of those accused before the Committee had been examined. The evidence was all on one side. Now with respect to Dublin, it ' was true that some acts of violence had been perpetrated there; still they had not increased within the last year, and trade was now, ' and had been for some time, in an evident state of improvement. The same objection which applied to the Glasgow evidence applied also to all the Irish evidence. He hoped they would therefore dis card oil such, and act only where both parties were examined. The Hon. Member then proceeded to read the following extract from the Report, where it (speaking of the 6th George IV.) says:— " The first object of the Act in question was the repeal of all the statutes which were in force against combination at the period of its enactment. In the wisdom of this repeal the opinions entertained ' by your Committee fully coincide; and considering the partial effect of those statutes, as well as their admitted insufficiency to the ends for which they were intended, so tar from recommending the re-enactment of them, they should deem it a measure of objection able severity towards the workmen, against whom they chiefly operated." That being the opinion of the Committee, be called on them to act on it, and if the resolutions of last year were properly construed they would be in accordance with the expressed wish of the Com mittee. As the present Bill stood, the masters were bound by no tie ; for, suppose they casne to a determination not to give their men more than half their usual wages, and ultimately starved them into a compliance, what relief, he asked, had the unfortunate men under • the present Bill ? (Cries of Hear, hear.) If the masters adopted such a course, must not the men naturally meet, and form counter committees, and, in his opinion, every facility short of violence should,be a ff orded them to defeat the unjust machinations of their ! employers. (Hear, hear.) Some corresponding checks should, in his opinion, be placed to the proceedings of the latter, who, in nine instances out of ten, had their men under the most perfect control, both as to the hours of labour and the amount of wages. He, therefore, Implored the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Wallace) to introduce some' measure for the pro tection of the men. He implored him to consider the effect of committing the operatives to the mercy of this justice or of that. If all the cases under the present Bill were to be tried in London, where the Magistrates had experience and were in the habit of duly weighing evidence on both sides, then indeed his objection would be lessened. He thought also that each offence under the Act ' should be more accurately detinee, and that the punishment at. (ached to them should be fixed. The Right lion. Gentleman said that it was difficult to define accurately the 'several offences. If the Right lion. Gentleman felt that difficulty now, how was it to be expected that a country justice could interi ret the Act so as to apply it to every possible offence ? (Hear, hear, hear.) How would the case be, now that punishment could be inflicted on the evidence of one witness.. The lion. Member, atter some further remarks as to the impolicy of the intended enactments, expressed a ; hope that such provisions might be adopted In the Committee as would mete out equal measure to all parties. (Ilene, hear.) ~ ~~ • ~ • ' s • The House then resolved itself into a Committee. Mr. CALCILA FT said the present was one of the most inter.l Ming subjects which had claimed the attention of the House for a long period. (Hear, hear.) He had no hesitation in ss.ing that the inquiry on it was most unsatisfactory, and that sufficient time had not been taken to give it all that consideration which the ht. portance of the question required. So unconnected and hasty wu the present measure that he expected it would come before the House again next Session. He thought the House should express, in the preamble of the Bill, some opinion, stating their sense as to combinations generally, and reprobating as well that amongst masters as operatives. When the proper time came he should move that there be expressed such an opinion. Alter some further remarks the lintrourable Member said he wished to arrest the progress of the measure until it should receive more consi. iteration. All knew from experience the evil of passing a hasty measure such as that which was adopted last Session (hear, hear); one which moss unquestionably did not answer the intended pur. pose. He therefore thought that all the provisions of the present Bill should be well watched. . . On the question that the clause which made it illegal for any person. either by " force, intimidation, or insult," to compel others to quit their work or loin any combination, stand part of the Bill, Mr. MANSFIELD, after a short conversation, in which seem! Members took part, said he objected to the clause t indeed, he ob jected to the entire measure ; he should not enter into the reasons for his opposition, as he &gaited of being able to make a come aponding impression on the House. His constituents were hostile to it, and so were all the operative classes; besides, the masters ap peered indifferent to it. Under these circumstances, he should give the measure, and that clause in particular, his decided opposition. Mr. Secretary PEEL, hoped the Honourable Member would state openly the grounds of his opposition, that an opportunity I might be afforded of replying to them. The Hon. Member stated that the masters were indifferent as to the present measure; but he ought to bear in mind, that the law was not intended for the pre teetion of the masters, it was solely to shield the innocent mechanic , who refused to join in the combination. (Hear, hear.) He was free to admit that some difficulties might arise from the vagueness of the law ; but then he thought it perfectly possible to compel a man by insult to do what he otherwise might not do ; if so, it most certainl should be provided for. Mr.MANSFIELD said, sufficient grounds for his opposition were contained in a letter ,which he had received on the subject t in that letter such a clause as the one now proposed was declared to be unjust in principle, because it punished persons for doing what I was their bounden duty to do, natnely, to dispose of their labour to the best advantage ; it was their only commodity, and they saw no reason why they should not refrain from selling it, unless for a proper price. The manufacturer and the agriculturiet each had his price, and why not the labourer? (Hear, hear, hear.) Mr. HORDOUSE objected to the clause as being too indefinite; if one man were charged with saying to another, " what a fool you are for not becoming a member of our society," it must rest en tirely with the Magistrate what was to be the character of such an expression. It must also depend on Lim what was to be considered obstruction by "insult," yet it was clear that what was insult to one might not be so to another ; indeed a great deal, in such cases, depended on the moral feelings of the giver and the recipient. The , constructiou of every Act must, under the present Bill, rest solely on some booby country justice, who, perhaps, might lock the ac- I cused in his parlour, and there detain him until a constable were sent for to search him ; he alluded to a possible case, that of Mr. Kenrick. (Hear, hear.) Aler some further remarks, the Hon. Member went on to say, that he did not wish to increase the pos sibility of eels of oppression by increasing the vagueness of the law. He then proceeded to defend the Committee of the last year; that Committee had at its head a Minister of the Crown—it was attended by the President of the Board of Trade, and occasionally by some of the Law Officers of the Crown ; it sat from February to May, and examined persons of all ranks ; amongst the wit. ; nesses were sixty masters and forty operatives. Ile thought the evidence before the Committee of this year was any thing but satisfactory, or such as would at all justify any harsh measure being enacted. He knew not why it was that many of those Hon. Members who were on the Committee of last year had not hem thought worthy of having the honour to be appointed on the Committee of this year. lie himself had the honour of being one of the Committee of last year. and atra Member representing so large and important a part of he people, he thought it would only have been an act of propriety that either he or some other Hon. Member connected with this great city should have been ap pointed on the present one. There was one circumstance &sick he could not help observing upon. Among all the liberal minded and intelligent men connected with the operatives of the city of West minster, not one single petition had been presented this Session against the Bill of last year, while he would declare that there were thousands and ten of thousands of signatures ready to be given in favour of that Bill. If, therefore, there was any attempt made to introduce an enactment which should in any degree appear to be onerous on the operatives of the country, he hoped that those Hon. 'Gentlemen who felt for the interests of the people would let their faces against it. He thought that from the mode in which the proceedings of the Committee had been conducted, and the manner l in which the evidence hid been taken, no measure could be brought forward founded upon such evidence that should operate harshly towards the workmen on any principle of justice whatsoever ; and if it should be thought proper to bring such a measure forward. he should certainly oppose it in every stage with all his power. Minis ters ought not to attempt such precipitancy, and he would say they should not carry such a measure this Session; there were forms enough in the mode of proceeding in this House that would prevent them from doing so, and those forms he would certainly enforce. With regard to the evidence on which this Bill was founded, he could not but think that there was much uncertainty. It was • very doubtful point, indeed, whether the ,proceedings which were stated to have taken place among the workmen at Glasgow were true or not, but even if they were so, was it to be said that all the operatives in the coentry were to be visited with severe legislative enactments in consequence ? The use of the word " insult" which occurred in the clause now under consideration was most objection. able. There was nothing definite in the expression, and although he did not oppose the general principle of the Bill, he certainly should object to any such word being introduced, or that freemen should be punished for what was called " insulting behaviour." Mr. HUSKISSON said he should not detain the Committee for many moments. With regard to the observation of the Hon. Member for Westminster, as to his not buying been appointed on the present Committee on the Combination Laws, he could only say, that he was very sorry the Hon. Gentleman was not a member of the Committee; he should have been very glad to have had the assistance of that Hon. Gentleman, representing, as he did, so large a number of constituents : but when he should tell the Hon. Member that the Resolution upon which the present Bill was founded was no more titan this—that the present Com. mittee should prepare a Bill founded upon the Resolutions of the Committee of last year (to which the Hon. Gentleman belonged), he thought the circumstance of his not being on the present Committee was not of so much consequence ea it might otherwise have been. The complaint which he and those lion. Gentle. men who supported the present measure made was, that the Bill which was brought in last year did not give effect to these Resat lutions, and that the Bill now before the Committee was more coin. plctely, and more truly and accurately, carrying the Resolutions of last year into effect. The Hon. Member for Westminster (Mr. Hobhouse) hal spoken as if some unjust and unnecessary severity was intended to be used towards the operatives. He dia. claimed any intention of dealing harshly towards that valuable portion of the community. His only object in promoting this measure was to deal with the question as a question of trade—to I creates fair competition of labour, and to place the operatives upon that basis of free trade which had been adopted by the I House, in regard to all other branches of trade in this country : and if the-Hon. Gentleman could suggest to him any clause or itn. movement in the Bill which would have that effect, he would insert it with pleasure. Labour was the only property of the poor man ; and the object of the clause now under discussion was, to protect those persons who were willing to act upon the principle of free trade from the overbearing acts of those who sought to mono. pollee labour, and to overbear the free-will of their fellow-men, who wished to carry their labour to a free market. The House i were bound to do every thing that was necessary , in the way of enactment, to protect the weak against the strong. and to do away with that moral power of combination which was more despotic in its nature than any system of Government that ever existed. It was absolutely necessary that the House should establish those re. gulations which would restore that which was not at present ex. !sting in this couutry—a free competition of labour and of capital. , This was all he required, and all that the Bill was intended to! etleet. Mr. 11011110 USE begged to explain. Us was perfectly satisfied with the principle of the Bill, but his objection was to the word " insult." It was too indefinite a term fur legislative enact. went. - - - Sir R. WILSON objected to the introduction of the word " in sult" in the clause now under discussion. He km of no ease where that word was made to designate a crime, except in Naples, where it was the law, that one hundred blows should be given to any man who should insult or speak direspectfully towards an Austrian Authority. He thought there was some precipitancy in bringing forward the present Bill: they ought to give as much time as they could to the master and the workmen to settle their own affairs. The latter were like all other men whn had been under restriction for a long tint ?--they were now wandering a little in the liberty to which they were at length restored. 51r. CALCRAFT considered that the House were now legis lating between man and man, and not between master and work man. He granted there was some difficulty in wording the clause so as to effect the object desired, and at the same tone to avoid using terms too indefinite ; but as the object of all the Hon. Alen. bees appeared to be the same, and as they wanted to try whether, under the circumstances they could not rescue those men who were willing to work for the very liberal wages that were offered to them in spite of those who would impede them, he trusted the House would not differ as to the mode of effecting this object. Ile had no particular regard for the word " insult ;. ' any other tem expres sive of the same thing would equally suit him : all he wanted was justice. If the Committee differed in terms, they agreed in essence; they all wished to let men do with their labour what they pleased, and to deprive any portion of them from dictating to the rest as to the price, for they should work in the same manner as the Housel had already done with regard to the masters. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he saw no objection to leave out of the clause the word " insult," and to adopt the words' molestatiton and obstruction, which bad been suggested, though 'the word Insult was sufficiently defined in what occured in a eubse ' quest Hill ; and it was nu very unusual thing in Acts of Parliament 'to leave the words more open than the present clause would be, for it often occurred, that after the various means of offence had been mentioned, that the clause should terminate by these words--." And by other means." which were certainly more in. definite than the word " insult." Mr. SCARLETT approved of the alteration proposed by his Honourable and Learned Friend the Atttomey-General, and thought the words molested or otherwise obstructed would answer the object intended to be effected by the clause. F , Captain MAIIERLY considered the ford In*lt so very vague, that he was apprehensive it would lead to great differ. cotes between the workmen and their masters, particularly when It was recollected that the parties were not to go before a Jury, but were left to the jurisdiction of a Magistrate. It was the duty of the House to use terms as little vague and uncertain as possible. Sir M. W. RIDI.EY said many Honourable Gentlemen seemed to consider the Bill Intended to assist the master to oppress the workmen, instead o( its being that which it really was, a Bill to' encourage free labour. With regard to the word "insult," he con. sidered it was sufficiently measured and exprenive, but he should not adhere to that or any other particular word, provided the spirit, of the Bill should be preserved. The Honourable Baronet then' justified the mode in which the present Committee had conducted the examinations before them ; he contended that nothing like a' garbled statement had taken place, but that the Committee had ex. amined into all the cases that were brought before them fairly, and without any favour to master or workman. He would say, that I with regard to the case of ship Margaret, at Glasgow. the whole of of the charge alleged against the men was fully proved before the Committee. Mr. 111VME said a few winds in explanation, and then entered into a justification of the condort pursued by the Committee of last year, and contended that the evidence which the present Committee had taken respecting the ship Ma-garet, did not warrant the state ment which had been made by the Honourable Baronet (Sir IP. Ridley.) There was not a man on board that ship belonging to the Union Society ; nor was one single case which was stated in the affidavits that were made, proved before the Committee. There was a degree of suspicion attacltiag to the whole of the evidence, and which required that the House should be very cautious in act- I ing upon it. Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that it was hardly necessary for him to trouble the Committee with any lengthened oliser tenons upon the clause, as they were ell pretty generally agreed as to tare principle of the Bill. It did appear to him, there fore, better that they should proceed at once to the details of the measure, rather than waste any more time in discussions, as to the manner in which the Committee of last sear, or the Committee of this, was conducted. He hoped, that without accusing the one or vindicating the other, they should, in perfect good humour, apply themselves to the business of the Committee In agreeing upon the terms of this Bill. A. it had been proposed to leave out the word " insult," and insert the words " molestation aced obstruction," he certainly hoped the clause would be 'greed to. He was well aware that every kind of molestation had been offered to individuals on the part of many of those combinations which ex isted ; and he did hope, not only for the sake of the muter but for the sake of the men themselves, this House would enact some mea sure that should put an end to such a species of tyrannical pro ceeding. With regard to the objection which had been made by the lion. Member on the third bench ',Capt. Maberly), that the question was left to the jurisdiction of one M agistrate, he begged to Inform the Honourable Member, that the jurisdiction had been expressly taken away front one Magistrate and had been given to two, whose joint authority was necessary in all cases which should sex under this Bill. Mr. W. W. WHITMORE thought the clause which gave jurisdiction to she Magistrates, would be found to give a power of most injurious oppression in mai.y of the populous districts ; as the Magistrates who would have to set by virtue of this clause, would in many instances be the misters themselves. If there were a clause introduced fur appointing paid Magistrates, and making them only capable of acting in these cases, and who would be an. swerable to this House for their conduct, it would take away his objections to the Bill. lie thought, at least,"the Bill ought to give a power of appeal by the panics aggrieved : and if it were not poe• sible to do so now, he would ask the Right Honourable Gentle man (Mr. Peel) whether it would not be absolutely necessary to propose such a clause in the early part of next Session. Hillis BiU was to pass in its present shape, he was quite sure, that at no dis tant period, it would be found necessary to confide its powers to a Magistracy who should be paid by the State. He did not Intend to propose any Ming himself on the subject, but he begged to press it very seriously upon the consideration of the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Home Department, who, he hoped, in the next Session, would see the propriety of the suggestion. The motion was then put, that after the word " intimidation," the word " insult" should be omitted, and the following words be inserted :—" or by molesting, or in any way obstructing one another." 111 r. IiUM E objected to the word " molesting," which he con ceived to be as vague and indefinite u the word " insult," and he should certainly divide the Committee upon the clause u to that word. _ . . . . . Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, when a division took place on the clause, as amended by the Attorney. For the clause, 90—Against it, 18--Majority in favour of the clause including the word molesting-72. On our return to the gallery we found Mr. lit.llE on his legs. The passing of the last clause would have the erect, in its opera tion, of placing the workmen at the mercy of the Magistrates. dr. HAMILTON' and Mr. CALCZATT differed in opinion from Mr. Hume, and disapproved of the warmth of expressions useit uy the Hon. Member. _ . . Sir F. BURGETT opposed the Bill, and thought that more time ought to have been given to try what would be the effects of last year's legislation before a change was proposed. Be objected to the Bill on account of its being partial to the muters and op. pressiva to the men. It besides gave a summary power to Magis trates in cases that ought, in his opinion, be left to the decision of a jury. There was also a most objectionable vagueness in the words of the bill ; it •u not possible satisfactorily to define such a term as " intimidation or insult ;" it was not a fit term there fore to introduce into an Act of penal legislation. Mr. HUME moved as an amendment that instead of " force and insulting," should be inserted the words " to force or endea vour to force." The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that would make the Act' unintelligible, as immediately afterwardslin the Act were the words " forcing or endeavouring to force." Mr. HUME then withdrew the amendment. Mr. DENMAN proposed an amendment. that instead of the words convicted in the manner befora mentioned." the words, " convicted by the deei.ion of a jury." This summary process ought not to be preferred to the old and invaluable institution of Trial by Jury. Expense and delay were the only plausible pre texts against it ; but there ought not to be obstacles to the giving a man the benefit of a trial under a penal statute. Besides, in cues of extraordinary violence, the power of punishment in the Maoris. tratca being limited to three months, was not sufficiently . extrusive to meet such a case with due severity. Under all the ctreumatas ces, he thought it better to have the case decided bye jury. The ATTORNEY.(;ENERAI, said that in aggravated cases the power of an indictment at assizes, subsequent to the conviction of the magistrate, was not taken away if it should be found advlu. ble to ;steer it. Independent of the expense and delay, there were cases that were peculiar that required the interposition of prompt jurisdiction, and it was for that reason that it was prance d :hat the power professed by the act should be vested in the 111agivracy. After a few words from Mr. Scarlett, Mr. Hobliouse, and Mr. Maxwell in support of the Amendment, the House divided. For the Amendment, - 53 Against it, - 78 Majority against it - —23 - .4 then agreed •- The clause waa then agreed to. Mr. HUM E objected to the clause by which any man may be tried in his absence. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw on this objection, but oo division took place, and the clause passed. Mr. HUME wished that an amendment should be intro duced in the clause for compelling persons to give evidence, and on their refusal to do so, confining them. Ile was desirous that their confinement should be limited to three months. The amendment was objected. to by the ATTORNEY-GENE RAL, and the clause passed. Mr. fIUME wished that the jurisdiction should be given In Scotland to Sheriffs and taken tram the Magistracy. The Ma gistrates were too often persons in trade, opposed to the workmen. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, if persons in trade were disqualified from becoming Magistrates, the law could not be executed in many counties. After a few words from Me. Husitasnar and Mr. Alderman Tgoarn_so?4,_ Air. hi 31E insisted upon dividing the House upon an amend. went, that no master manufacturer, or son of a master manufac turer, should exercise his jurisdiction as Justice under the provl. Ilion* of this Aet. The Committee then divided— For the Amendment 7 151 Against it - - - 60 Majority : . - 45. The House then resumea, and the Report was ordered to be re. eeired to-day. MR. KENRICK. 'Mr. DENMAN moved the order of the day for going into a Committee' upon the Petition of Martin Canfnr, against Mr. Ken rick. The lion. Gentleman then said, that in consequence of the lateness of the hour he would ask leave that the Committee do ad journ till this day at four o'clock, at which time he intimated his intenticn of nt,ving that witnessess be heard in the care of Franks as rennected with Mr. Kenrick. Mr. LYTTLETON hoped the lion. Gentleman would allow the debate upon the Report of the Committee on private business to take precedence at four o'clock, as it would not, he believed, occupy any great length of time. Mr. A BERCROSIIIY said that as it would be best they should be in possession of the whole of the caw with all possible despatch, he thought his lion. Friend had better order the witnesses to at tend now. Mt. Secretary PEEL said, that it had been argued in the eve of Cantor, that the petition contained the case against Mr. Ken. i ; aid the Learned Gentleman (Mr. Denman) had met every objection upon the subject of a written charge not being made out by that argument. Here there was no charge known, and he must therefore, for the isabe of common justice, beg that the Hon. Gentleman do give notice now of what he intends to do, what wit ' news are to he summoned, and for what purpose. Mr. DENMAN said, that in a case of this kind, where, as he had said before, they had no other interest than that of inquiring into the truth, he did not think a Member bound to lay any statement before the House which would pledge hint to any part!. cuter course : the House was to inquire, and do what to it might seem fir. The charge he had distinctly stated before, and would now repeat it, was against Ale. Kenrick for prosecuting • poor man for an alleged felony, without having any case at all to make out against him: and after that case failed, for writing a letter upon the same case which, he contended, was in the highest de. gree libellous, and which letter he should be able to prove was altogether untrue with regard to the facts. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought It a most extraordi. nary proceeding, to commence an inquire of that kind without any any charge upon the table. fie believed it was as unusual in Par liament as it would seem strange in a Court of Justice. Mr. BARING thought the sooner the other part of the evidence was referred to the same Committee it would be so much the better. He hoped the Ron. (iewderaan would not ~ w make a statement to the Ctxr vii- r. a -u refer the affidavits con nected with the case of Franks t.• t• e v c no , .Me. Secretary PEEL, repea.eil•tho rre,—itv of a notice. Mr. Kenrick might have had reason to answer i'•anks to be a dishonest man, and be able to prove it, so ilia. it would be just to him that he should be apprised of what was to I.e brought against him. Mr. ABERCHO3IBY contended that Mr. Kenrick had perfect cognizance of what was to be brought against him, and might row see the exact nature of the evidence from the selection of the affi davits: He knew Mr. Kenrick. and sincerely wished tl•nt might come pure out of the investigation, but yet he thought the House bound now to investigate the matters of the charge thoroughly and speedily. Dr. PtifILLIMORE said there was a distinct understanding on Friday that the two eases were to be wholly separate, and that a de , eision was to be pronounced upon one before the other was gone into. The House had been prevented from pronouncing that decision solely because the Learned Gentleman wished fur time to consider what course he would take with the first case. Mr. C. WYNN understood, certainly that they were to pro nounce a decision upon Mr. Kenriek's conduct as a Magistrate. before they entered into an examination of his proceedings as an individual. Mr. BARING was very glad the House had deferred its jude mem unit they had time to make themselves fully acquainted with the evidence. He would suppose a case (he did not mean to say it actually existed), but he would suppose a case of an individual dia. playing both in his capacity of Judge and 3fagistrate great intir muy of temper on all occasions—great want of discretion, and any rational command of his passions —in short, great unfitness for sitting on the judgment seat as far as regarded those qualitties which were generally considered necessary for such a situation— would they nut agree that the case of such infirmity of temper must be proved in many instances to warrant that House in addressing the Crown formrh a person's removal ? (Hear, hear.) So that in truth it was, waether this infirmity appeared in one irstance or many, which ma fe Oldie differeice. (Hear, hear.) They shoubt always recollect they were not putting thi s p erson on hi s trial wits al the formality of a Court of Justice ; they were seeking to ascertain whether there were sufficient grounds for an address to the Crown for the removal of a Judge from the Bench, and the ques , don wa., wbeth.r the accumulation of many acts of a particular description would not be sufficient for that purpose, although the I proof of one migl t flit to have that effect upon the question they were called upon to decide ; and he certainly thought the House was bound to hear all the charges upon such a serious subject. Mr. PEEL wished the House, when they were deciding such a question, to bear in mind that it became them never to depart troth the essential principles of justice. It would be In the recollection of the House that the Hon. Gentleman had on Friday night dis. tinctly plealgsi himself that he would on that evening (Monday) submit to the consideration of the House a trio i in on I:ant:tea case; but it then appeared that he had altogether le'inquislied any such intim ion. Creild thee the House have foreseen on Friday that thus on Mon 'ay such a result would havearisen? Frem such eapec tations they would most assuredly have come to a decision on the former day. On the* day the Honourable Gentleman con fined I imself strictly to the case of Cantor. Ile never once mend°r e t any ether as • ; never founded any portion of his accusations agiinst K •nrick, upon any matter connected with that gent., man's conduct t swards Frank., but moat distinctly said that on th • Monday hew .old come fors a ..t1 to the House with a specific pr portion on •he case of Mr Kenic'„ and the House then saw w at was 0 • , - m n to in which he thoty;lit proper to re d. e n the pi, dr. Want• be endured that advantage should be token of coos , n omens o weakness—of every instance of heat or irritability n wi ich Mr. K. nrick, during the last ten years, might have been betrayed into error. In the 21formiwg Chrostiele news. pa ter of that day there op seared a new charge against Mr. Ken r ck, and it:metiers wer_ p emitted to proceed In that way it was impossible to fo esee where they would terminate—for, if not satis fied with that new charc, they would, it was to be resumed, bring forward o hers to oppress and bear down Mr. Kennek, with.. out refererca to those principles of justice which alone ought to govern the p weeding of that House. Mr. DENMAN should be very sorry indeed to depart from that strict regard to the essential principles of justice for which the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) so tenuously called. Ile (Mr. Denman) consideree, that although ens of these cases would not of itself be sufficient to establish the accusation that he felt it his duty to make against Mr. Kenrick, yet that the combined weight of the two charges would prove sufficient to establish agatrst that gentleman a charge not only of being unfit, from want of temper and judgment. to till his high offices, but also from hav ing been guilty of partiality—he would not say corruption. He begged it to be distinctly understood, that he had in no re.. spect departed from the pledge shich he gave the House on Fri. day night. He would state then to the House the c rcumstances under which the matter stood. He had that night come down to the House wish a Re 0:u•ion p epa t d ler their consideration, and which he most certainly before then wou'd have submitted to them had it not be , n for the length of time their atention had been oc cupied with the Combination Laws. ho far from its being the fact, that he had on Friday night confined himself to the case of Canfor, he tires most distinctly affirmed, that he on that night had app.' , d the House that if one cases ould not prose sufficient for evablishiog his charges against Mr. Kennet, he would bring forward a second. His Learned Friend the Attothey-GeneraL—and he (Mr. Ihninan) felt somewhat toe on the eccesion had said, tl at it would be the height of injustice in him to proceed against Mr. Kenrick with two separate accusations. He contended there would be no injustice in such a course, for it would be perfectly toametent to the nous: to decide on both, after a debate which should embrace their joint consideration. He certainly had stated on Friday, that on that night he would bring forward a Resolution on Cantor's case, and that be had done without any special condition, without making it the subject of a bargain ; and that he was then prepared to 00, but for the lateness of the hour He was willing from first to last to do what ' ever the House wished, all he wished for was justice. After soiree further observations, I.e stated the real question to be--whether a man who had conducted himself as Mr. Kenrick had done— whether a man of his temper, habits, and conduct, deserved to be continued in his high office? After a few words from Mr. C. W. 'll - I(tier and the AT. TOUNET-GENECLAL, Mr. DENMAN assued the House that he did not mean to bring forward arainat Mr. Kenrick any charge of corruption, but of great partiality and want of jed-ment and temper. lie or. eluded by delivering In to the Sp ak ir a written charge (on which it was understood he would proce d ihis day) to the effect that Mr. Kenrick hal unjustly accused a p trson named Franks before a neighbouring Magistrate, of felony—that during his n itemehe he had frequattly urged him to put in a plea of guilty, holding out to him as an inducement to do so the promise of a lenient sen tence—and that he had published agath.t him a ft: a : and scan. dalous libel in the form of a letter to a ptiblie print. After some observations from Mr. ABERCROMBY, and an ex planation fon Mr. A. BARING in which he declared that he did not wish to bar hard upon Mr. Kenrick, Mr. Sect, tary PEEL said, this• nothing could be further from his intention man td impute to the Honourable Gentleman (.Mr. Baring) any deposition to bear hard upon Mr. Kenrick. Ile wi s h. ed to take Oa. opportunity of saying, that if the witnesses to appear on behalf of Mr. Kenrick were not in the kingdom, it would be a great hardship on that gentleman, and perhaps might have the effect of pcs posing to next Session, tile further consideration of his cue. The SPEAKER then said, that the only question which he had to put to tta House was. that the charge be communicated to .Mr. Kende/a, alai.h was carried. CUSTOMS' CONSOLIDATION. _ The Cnstorns`C.niolldatioa Act was then read a third time, and passed. MAURITIUS TRADE BILL. The Mattridus Trade Bill was read a third time, and passed. HORSES' SLAUGHTERING BILL. Mr. R. MARTIN, on the auR cation of ai r. 110 et sr It w. postponed the third reading of the horses' Slaughtering 11,11 till to-morrow. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and th Douse Adjourned at Two o'Cloek to this day. PRICES OF FOREDIN Austrian Bonds (10 Gu. per t St.) 99 Ditto Acet. 984 Brazilian Bonds 324 Ditto SCf p Datie Acct. 04 dis Buenos Ayres Bonds 934 Colombian Bonds Ditto Bonds (1824) 884 8 74 8 Ditto Acct. 884 8 French Rentes 3 pr Ct. 102 f. 50c. Exchange 25f. Inc. Ditto Renter S per Ct. 76f. 23c. 76f. Sic. Exchange 23f. 10c. Greek Bonds 494 I)itto Acct. 49! 'Ditto Scrip (1825) 104 11 jdi Ditto Acct. 104 11 41 dis %I( PCS:. YESTERDAY. 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