The Statesman. — London, England, 1822-02-08 00:00:00

/MO Z - 11 . evil hail been stated in the papera's Haase by his Majesty's Ministers. Yet tree altogether with the Noble Aluripteme, fu t the cause of the evil should he strictly b. s.—(Hear, hear, bear.)—lf the Horne was se :lined to bring the reentry to a state of peace go to the bottom of the evil; earl be sincerel t some gentleman competeht to the task would ;bustles of Ireland, with reference to the cause trot nil, nailer the consideration of the House. RUTlAltobjected to the Owings( the power irtation to the trials Magistracy. Many 01 middle-own. and with* exercise the power in nton manner over the'., tenants. .tTTAN said, that coercive measures of every n would, in the end, he fonnd ineffectua l. ht hang sad shoat the people, bat the thing I go end argil as fur giving increased power to dray, lie had no hesitation in sa y ing, that das the present I.isrisstrary was, he should jut a Rill for depriving them of all. they had Dud to such a Bill he would give Isis meet' pport. .iNCIS BURDETT said, the Noble Marques* tail hail for twenty years the means of inform elf:o the •eitnation of Ireland; 'he was not misled but connected with the country, and the power of remevisg the evil which hail so OA it. Yet bed be time *her time called for ties powers. tad mow it was a gentian most to hainanity which the House was cSlledmeo s. It wooortsat a le? f Wrote force was ur ic prit-deresi the For such a state of se Noble Marquess was accountable, and ought M secorietabie to the people. His (Sir Francis's) ce is the • Noble Marines. was not so great as e him tegraat new powers to oppress the people lie was really astonished to find that the largoess hiril the face to make so diogracefnl a lief elm cosetry under his !moment, and to 'oath's powers of oppression. and fur the means hog the nohappy country With gihbets.—(Hear, la his (Sir Frarcies) opinion, the proposed re ass aggravasioa of the evil; anal Ise thought 'ld not here errs a temporary effect. All the embers had spoken on the subject with a feeling ss naturally expected; aid those who supported toted measures bail ilea* so with considerable The object. so doubt, was to obtain a pause sity; but even that, he theaght. would .et be ished. It was said there was nothing political disturbances, because his Majesty had been so eived in Ireland. No doubt, that as far as his was penman, concerood,everything bad been iich could be ieea by a eoseiliat iag spirit: bat ig could not work' miracles. Had Ministers good use of that visit, the Howse would not at meat hare been reduced to the necessity of (Be ttie present painful question. The suspension Halms Corpus Act would disgust without giving r severity; for it gave merely the ;emeriti* keep nu in prison without trial. Such a power was a he abased, as it had notoriously bees in this r. Talk of Goveratneets. indeed! What sort ores:meat mast that be which gave such extra y power to a Magistracy.—(Hear.) It was a meat which deserved not to exist ; and which are on apology whatever. The Noble Marquess swa to the House, apparently without any com a for the past, sod asked them to put into his le t band apower he bad already so monstrously The Magistrates of Ireland were. he thought, be metrosted with extraordicary pewee; and he d. that with his high oploion of the liberality of tittle - ban Of 1W Noble Iltarquent at the beat leish Giseeroasest, he would prefer giving all the ta Was, line leopiebein ire Ibis disgraceful maw He would repeat. that he sbeuldprefer entrusting wer with that Nobleman. than the making him underpart to the present Administration. The inflate, now complained of. were nothing more r-actions of an unhappy people excited by oppres sed be hoped there was no lola who, lilting his o possish, did not feel his heart sink within him. sling of the necessity of punishment. The Noble en who bad persuaded the lush Parliament be t to the Union bad fulfilled not one expectation he' !hi oat on that occasion. This, among other had led to excesses, and the remedy of the Noble ess, as usual, was force. He (Sir Francis) thought ersshould have preceded this measure by a state d' the sitnation of Ireland. Else what was a Go. on fur?—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.)— merely to take the public mosey ? —(Cheers.)— bow could they apologise for salting these wee. lie again declared that he should not object to acing of power in the hands of the Noble Marquess head of the Irish Government, providing inquiry o follow ; but by the proposed measures he was to go on bliruffulded, without knowing where. therefore should certainly oppose the motion. UIIsEERT thought force necessary to meet the ig evil; bat something must be dome for the tra it relief of the people. Ile declared his convict's, se peace of the country could never be consoli until the tithe system was wholly abolished.— rs.)—lle was averse to giving extraordinary sto the Magistracy of Ireland. It was notorious ustice was bought and sold in Ireland. . AMERCRO3IItY, at some length, contended that were not sufficient grounds stated for the enact cf these severe measures. He accused the Ad oration of the grossest neglect in the Government viand, and expressed his hope that an immediate in r would be appointed into the state of that country. r. HUME said, he had a question to put to the No- Marquess, on which he was sure the whole House united. He adverted to the necessity there was of consideration being given to the tithe system; lest the Noble Marquess should suppose he brought setter forward without a careful consideration. I. ed to assure him, and all his friends knew it very that the tithe system had occupied his serious at in for the last th ;re w nolis.—(Laughter.)--Ile wish know if the Noble Marquess would support a mo le go into a Committee on that subject, and he ,d give him the benefit of his services, having de -1 so lunch attention to the subject.—(Laughter.) r LCOLE defended the conduct of the Lord Chan t of Ireland in the appointineut of Magistrates. r. GILBERT said, with reference to the conduct of . 0 111 Chancellor, be would state one fart, (runs which [ louse would make their own inferences.—'f here four affidavits, by four 1 persons, charging a istrate of the county of Limerick with gross unscon- Ile (Mr. G.) waited on the Lord Chancellor, after writing to him on the subject without receiving any er, and stated the matter of the isffidavits. The feller replied, that, on enquiry Into the matter, lie I that the Magistrate was luirdeil by a book called , ally's Janice of Peace, and he threw himself s clemency of the Chancellor.—The consequence that the man still remained in office. • . BROWNE said, that when he voted u be meant . fur so unconstitutional a law as the Insurrection he did so only from a feeling of strong necessity 'le did not see any necessity •for suspending the! as Corpus Act. He should again take an opportu4 of troubling 'the Hone when the gliestiogi of the, vies of Ireland should come before theta. At tlif time he lamented that no measures had yet been I for relining those distresses. TFIF Mr. E. °KANT saki it was frau r frolingnt tb • lost painful necessity that Is ibould vote - for the neasnre thou heroes the House. .fle assured these be ras the last man who would mike the Insarreetion %et a part dm permanent system foe the goyeennrent of I 'Aland ; bat he had. e•atended that an exigency night not arise in which inch a measure mid ht not he adoptel as one of absolute necessity, for seeming Ile existence of the State. If he had not h•en con- winced of the necessity of placing ouch confidence in the Marquess We'lnlay. he should not now vote for !hie measure ; for he was sure the Noble dlarqueos would never have asked for the meow', if be had not been convinced that the safety of Ireland required it; and no doubt could be entertained but that the Noble Marquess would ase the powers vested in him with moderation, and with an anxious desire to prom,* the general benefit of Ireland. For this mewl he t shoeld vote for the measure, mod particularly so.', because he felt it was not intended to make it a part of the permanent system , for the tiovernment, of that unhappy conntry.—(Hear, hear.) He knewl that before the Session closed there soukd be as inquiry into the general state of Ireland, with a l view of correcting the evils that existed there; there fore the House by passing the intended Bills would not he precluded from entering into that general ex amination of the situation end demands of I"elaad v which wee so much called for.---(Hear, bear.)—it wq not now his intention to enter into any thing like a` recapitulation of the ;demotes that prevailed in that country. If be were to point out one of them. he would say that she priacipal grievance was to be found in the tithe-system—(hear, bear.)---which loudly I called for some alteration. It was paisful to him tel he obliged to yield to the present miium: bet ihW did so as a proof of his regard for the Irish people; and he was sure his Majesty's Ministers would be most anxious to take every necessary step to remove the gri that pressed upon them. Lord EBRINBTON objected to passing the Inset rection Act. because be saw nothing in tbe papers be fore the Home to justify the exercise of more osten sive powers than were given by the misdate laws; and because that Act was in itself odious. and acquired additional Wiens from the heads into which it was to be placed. Mr. BROLOHAM assured the House and his Hoe. Friend on the other aide (Mr. Orem), that it would give him great satisfaction if be meld agree with him is his views as to the measure now proposed. He mew spoke from the impressive made on his mind by the official coaduet of his Hoe. 'Friend; and they ell& feted only is regard to their votes that eight; for he fully agreed with hie Right lion. Friend, that every possible degree of confidence might be reposed la the Marquess Wellesley. If the measure was called for by *messily, it would be better at once to pass a vete investing the resew Lord-lieutenant of Ireland with extraordinary powers, as the exigency of affairs might require. What right had the Noble Marquess to call on time House to harry a business of this kind? What' occasion was there ter berry? If esperlitioe la a measure of this Idid lid hem oecessary, why was not Paglianseet esseibleireasier ? Why did sot Per e Rarest meet before eltrletutas ? But the *mew hat ividence before is that sight 'efficient to show that itiogs were be such a elate be intent Me mite% evil might have been prevented had Parliament bees called is the month of October last. No word Amid pass his (Mr. Brotrhain's) lips that could be coo 'trued to countename. what so bums. being could suspect another of appleuding, the acts of cruel and blood-thirsty violence, which disgraced and degraded a portion of the people of Iceland. But the necessity of some steps WIN; admitted, it appeared to him that it might be mummy to increase the military force, and give a larger military dictatorship to the bead ..1 the Government there. as might meet the emergency of the case. But this, so far from being a measure of confidence in the Lord-Lieutenant. was more a mea sure of eoefidesce in the Magistrates of Ireland, and that not in one or two districts, but applicable uni versally. it only required to obtain a measure a so dangerous a character that a few Magis trates should get together and frighten each other, or desiring to extend their local authority shonld memorialise Government. The powers that the Insurrection Act gave, were at once destructive of personal liberty. They were large powers. atal a frightful discretion to give to any, be they who they 'bight, with all those petty local passions and peals •dices which prevailed in districts less disturbed thsa those to which this applied. By whom were these powers to be exercised ? Surely there was gemmed for distrust here. By Magistrates whom the House had heard described, and to whom lie meant no dim spect in taking the account of their countrymen. By one Hon. Member they were described as not being proprietors of land, assay even being middlemen, and kisown to the people by any thing rather than that be. selieleat connexion which bound the tenant to the landlord ; but wore in the shape of a grinding scourge. Aeotiter stated that an appointment to the Magistracy was one in which so little care was shewn, that a person who had stood behind him as waiter in an inn, he at towards foetid in emended... Another, the Hon. Member for Wicklow said, that instead of passing as Act to invest new powers in the Magistrates, the great est relief that could be gives would be an Act to abo lish Magistrates altogether. They had also bad a de claration from another quarter, that inch was the con stitution of the Magistracy, that whilst it existed jus tice was to be bought mid sold. Were these proper person to be entrusted with such powers? Were these persons in whose behalf they were.to give up without further deliberation than what had been afforded them that single evening. to give up the whole Consti tution of Ireland?—(Hear.) He had heard it said that night, that they mast not consent to adopt a remedy for the grievances of which these people complained, in consequence of these outrages, since that would sa vour of intimidation. But it was a great mistake to put it in this way. They wbu declared that whatever measures were adopted, should be accompanied with conciliation, did not ask it as the fruit of those outrages.—They said, whilst voting for sheen measures of ity, do not press heavily us the people without holding out the hand If cesciliation.—(ilear.)—But how *could it be otherwise with that people, seeing the mitegoversonent with which they have re long been Witted? They were' to divided amongst themselves that ohs memoe of their church establishment exceeded that of assay states la- 111 AW bonder ■nder the burden of papacy. They only pre• tended to give religious instruction t • one-tenth or a twelfth of the population. Bet they did not eves rive that. a• the Clergy did not reside on their lisle. Thus. with a tithepr;itor to reconcile them tea atm resident clergy. and middlemen to reconcile them to so absentee gentry, who could expect things to be otherwise then they were ? It was only matter of sue prise that (Whiniest bad so lung abstained from in terferieg between these Natural evils....• If these Bills were passed it would require an eatliteased military force to extents them, and why sot then try the reme dy first ? There was Co occasion for the easpensios of the Habeas Corpus Act, which was only applicable in case; of political exigency, when it Might be neces sary to arrest great agitators teithost the forms of law, This, therefore, being coupled with the lasurrectios Art, would excite a jealousy more likely to lead to that, it ought only to be used topnt down, than to treats tranquillity. The Marquess of LONDONDERRY rote to reply. The reluctance Government had 'hewn in bringing *sward the measure might be toosidered ample apo logy for 'meeting to it. His Majesty's Government peony waited tit the last moment, unwilling to resort So these hills; bat baying obtiined the best opinions I. :beeped* the necessity of the measure, they resolved bare reams/ to, as the only means of preserving rasa-pew and tranquillity of (reload. The House would pee la the last despatches from the Marquess Wellesley. that the exigencies justified the measure ; l ased if so, them could be no objection. There were instances is which Parliament, without reference to Ilse Mikes Corpses Suspension Act, Ita.l passed plea: wee which did atom violence to the liberties of the Constitution than the bills ander consideratios. With teepee* to the principle of the Rill, it had been passed before under similar circumstances, and the House were well acquainted aid' its enactments. if the prints was admissible, the minds of lion. Members east be made up. He could go to the length of saying, with the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, that they were Falb Bills which every man most f el pain in passing ; bat it was impossible to admit that the Divernment were anxious to use this Act as a permanent The Noble Marquess bad stated that it was not to go to great extent, but be limited to the duration of Par liament; and brit be had to regret it had been said, that so lung as these Acts were in force, the eat oftio vernment would beetled to all the grievances of Ireland. The Noble Marquee expressed himself ready to pro neote nay measure for the amelioration of Ireland the Rt. Hon. Baronet, or any Hon. Member might propose. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman blamed the Cabinet fur being divided on the Catholic Question, as if it was the only Cabinet which bad been divided es that sub ject. The Hon. Gentleman had made another ditteo very, that whenever a change took place in •Cabi set, some friend to the Catholics must be appointed. It was however quite useless to occupy the attention of the House on this subject. All the Noble Marques. would say was this :—He would be floppy to discuss all questions relating to the improvement miabe Web. Laws 3 and with respect to the Catholic Question, be was happy to are the Catholics were not disposed to effer themselves to the attention of Perliirinellir *arise ;.• date of Watt% They shoald take the time of Oder onekorder. m44= act pradeutly. When the al loomi u m so „. • eke (aerie s ahead tea bayou to do his duty. With respect to . tint question before the House, the Honourable esti Learned Gentleman, and others in the same school of politics, bad cast censure on the because it was not dictated by the Marquees Wellesley. He would receive the praise of the Noble Marquess, as the greatest authority, bat newer would consent to justify, the measure because the Noble Marquess was dictator. He was sure the people of this country would rather live under the insurrection Act, than place themselves ander a dictatorship which might dep.ive them of the exer cise of their minds and public feelings. The short , question, however, in this case was. whether benefit was to be derived from the Insurrection Act, as ap plied to the present state of Ireland, and whether it could be altered fur the advantage of the people by st lowing trial by Jury ? That question had been seri ously taken into consideration by the Lord Lima nest, who had a strong desire to make an alteration of the law in that respect. The project was long considered, and the decision was, that if trial by Jury was introduced to the Insurrection Act, it would render the law nugatory. if the House resorted to an unconstitutional law, it was necessary to have It effective or not at all. He begged leave to plead be the charge against the Magistracy of Ireland. There might be improper conduct on the part of one or two Magistrates, but was the whole Magistracy of Ireland , therefore to be degraded ? It was said justice was bought and sold, and it was the first time the Noble Lord ever heard that money bad purchaeed the honour of Magistrates in that country. Hs did not cilia the case alluded to would tufo out to be so bad as de scribed, but, however it might tarn out, it could nut cast censure on the great body of M.giittrates in Ire land. The lion. and Learned Gentleman bad stated the law in contemplation to be worse than it really is. It would bring an individual before a Magistrate, and if he did not account for his absence, he was to be transported. The inference could not be fairly death', that every man absent from his home was to be trans ported. If the Magistrates of Ireland were as cor rupt as described, they could not commit the acts of oppression the lion. and Learned Gentleman had stated. The law required a Sergeant and a King's Counsel, also some others of letal character to watch the con duct of Magistrates, and unless the Magistrates and Lawyers were all corrupt, injustice could not be done. There was also an appeal to the Lord Lieutenant. The Noble Lord expressed a hope that Ireland would never require the operation of such a law fur a long period, but when rebellion stalked abroad, and uien were nut safe by their fire side, be for one would not be deterred from bringing in a Bill for the protection of the peaceable citiaen, by the bugbears of the Hon. and Learaed Gentleman, nor by the dictatorship lie might. set up. The midnight assassin and robber must be kept from the abode of peace and initiatory. If there was any one provision in our laws that moat touched Lis heart, it was the Act to repeal the Habeas Corpus, but it was ~emery. and meet be passed. It aas not il intended to apply . m the unfortuis4e'uten with arms in their bands. opine 44 bills. secure entiktajaik distarbers in atifitY of the cOithtry..-*---t: Lord Wellesley hA sidiA P.4l.rat for measures in which he coild kiuduess to - _ _ the people of heisted. His views were take* for the peace and welfare of Ireland. A. a Mi nister of the Crown, in his place is Parliament. —The Noble Marquess declared that he had takes no steps upon his own responsibility, bet at the de sire and request of the person at the head of the Irish Hovernasent. He bad to repeat the wish of the Noble Marquess that the House would enable bim to do his detytii the country by giving him power to protect the people. If Oen*letnen wished to make the Noble Marquess dictator, he would give him praise, bat net as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman gave it. Lord Wel- lesly was only desirous to preserve pablie liberty by the exercise of power. He felt it was his duty to tran quillise the country, and at the same time eonvisce the disturbers that they must submit to the laws. They would do well to pass these Bills this night, and It might be right to state there was nu material altera tion from what was passed on a former occasion.— There was one new clause which he should *tato in the Committee. It was to make every individual the object of the Act who may send threatening letters to procure arms or money. The Noble Lord had also the satisfaction of saying these Bills had not only been prepared by the flovernment of I reliant, but revised by the Attorney-Uvneral fur Ireland , The HE HE it for Limerick explained. Mr. BROCOHAM begged learn to lay nee word lu explanation. The Noble Lordltad intimate'', partly, he revamps), as seriously spealtiog, sad partly in his lender way, that lie (Mr. 1L) bad spoken as if desirous of conferring on the present Lord Lieutenant dictato• vial power. He never wished to give suck a power to any man ; bat what be said was this—that when it was proposed to give to local magistrates these tarp and extraordinary powers, under each sets es these, be (Hr. (3) wool!' rather confer them upon an experienced , . mid respected °Seer like Lord iVellesley, without theta. The Marquess of LONDONDERRY understood, then, that the Hon. and Learned Oeutlessee would rather desire that Lord Wellesley should sit as judge in his oien palate acd pers in of all eases in which tadiwi• duals had been detected oat late at oight.—(A laugh.) - Mr. DOMINICK BROWNE teen addressed the Recap; but the reiterated cries of " Qaestion, gees. dos," and " Spoke," rendered him totally iaandihis . _ in the gallery. The honor was then cleared for a division ; which took falser :-.--For brining In the Bill, 193—Against it. 68 —Majority. M. Doting the exclusion of stingers, another division took plate oh the question that the Bill be read a first h 5 time. The Reenters were sederstnod to be,—For the t readisg 662 —Agaiest it. 11—Majority, I 3 +. The second reading of the Bill. as we conceit:l • was thee agreed to without a division. But on the trestles of printing the Bill, the House again divided. the nembers were stated to be—Fur the printing, 142. —Against it. 25.—Majority, 117. On our re-admiseion into the gallery. we found tis Mr. SPRINII 1110 E im his !pp. As well as the e and roofs/don preebiling In the House wonid Is to ellieet his onethelstg, ha lodmatcd that he Id feel boned to take Illte sense of th e House us *ill's new going Into it Committee. • The Marquess of LONDONDERRY expressed a wish, that the Hon. and Leaped Gentleman wouTinot persist in his motion. bat allow the Bill to pass its SP. ' ' vend stages to-night, so that it might be seat sp to the other house to-morrow. receive the royal sanction ea Saturday, and be transmitted to Leland this week. The .: Hon. sod L d (lest. could not Bravely persist its his !nolo, of Adjournment. . _ _ .. _ _ 4 Mr. DENM.tN said, that be would me his priri- . , • t lege as a Member of the House, and oppose the passing of the bill to-night, if the Noble Lord persisted io his determination of pressing it. Such a measure as this, involving the liberties and rights of a great country, ought nut to pass like a formal indemnity bill, to whit.lt no objections coulJ be made, and on which no informa tion was required. Powers like those granted by this bill ought not to be granted without the fullest deliher4- tin°, and he was surprised at the loos of evity which the Noble Lord employed on a question so grave and nsontestons. He concluded by giving notice, that if the Noble Lord persisted in his 'motion, he would em ploy the foruts of the House to prevent suds a preci pitate vote. The Marquess of LON DONDES.RY said, as the Hun. and Learned Gentleman intended to employ those forms which might stop the passing of the losurrec , tion Bill to night, be would not press it, but would only beg that theother Bill (the Ihs'Aeas Corpus Sus pension) might be allowed without opposition to pass. through the same stages that bath relight proceed to gether. This motion was agreed to. The /labors Copes Suspension Bill was introduced. read a first and second time, and ordered to be commit.' ted to•worrow. The ►louse then adjourned at a quarter past one o'clock. MINORITY AGAINST TAE SUSPKIISION or THS IIA (AlI CORPUS ACT-68 to 193. lion. J. Abercrombie, S. B. ,A. Barrett, T. W. Beau mont, Ben. Betinou, It. Bern I, J. Itir , li, H. Bright, H. Brougham, ' Sir Pe WI lett, Lunt Bury, N. Calvet', C'. Calvert. J. (hater.. Lord C.ift;M:•Thos: • Creevey. S. Crompton, Col. Davies. Thos. Iteninan, .W.. 1; Deni son, Lord Ehrinvion, E_Ellis, Sir•it. Ferguson, Corm W. Fitzgerald , Hon. P. Fit m ihwii, Lord C. Fitzroy. Lord Folkestone, Lord iorbes, J. Grattan, H. thinner. Lord A. Hamilton, Sir Bobt,He.cart, Lunt A. Hill, W. P. tionywooo, J. C. liohhouso, J.Huine, Win. Jam..., Col. Johnson, J. ii. Lanibtom,T:'. B. Leonard, 14. Lnsliingion, J. Maberly,liir J.:Mackintosh, S. Majori ' banks, P. Mo. Ir., Lord :Curti, tiir: J. Neinporn, ' Win. Onl, Lord Ossulston, Col. Palmer, tubs' Friel, 1). Ricardo, W.. 1. Roberts, Col: Roberts. FP: iti.lfunl, S. Rice, J. Srarlett, Earl Sefton, W. Smith, Hou. It. Smith, Lor I J.Stuart, Hight-lion: ti.-I'iettiiili ii. Tea - ovson, Sir Rob`, Wilson, Mr. Md. Wiltud i . "Slltt T. it . • tfionington, IV ••.. I , Ot. . ' Tzi:Leas.—Hon. (I . .limnet, Ilno. H. ifiNlitosoo. MI NORITY.... .. v.,f. i.,... . ' . ON THE SUSPENSI• N Or THS HAHEAG OCIRITMAI.A, GAN 1 raINTSID TO GIVE TIME 79 ecveVig O opet lou t Sicpsa thvi•ios or. Tall 11.1 1 .--• roil.; il• ' 41,1 01 61 . Sit F. linniett, C. !,.:. v•ito. , o ,litli, T. Wrenn, J. Uratt,n, J.U. 114 it Ati• Ilieriin.;ti. - • 11: Mitchinson, 11 ,JameNCIA. ' i)r,• l / 4 1:ilkirroaw: ..••••• ttiiii Mirent, Grird OssnlstOM• 'Price, I). lticard4, I —..... W.Koliants, Co). Itobarts,Ald r irtatol...Sk 4 Jii.. %kilo ... Sir T. &Whinnied*. .S • • • •-•• '• romans. —Joseph Hume. Peter Moore. • .A f - .i • *POW i . • • • •• ,;?