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rer r of nee net but it was not merely t numerical superiority that they had to boat:. ; the French ollieent, from length, variety, and constancy of service, had greatly v the advantage of their adversaries ; and though we all are ready to admit the patience, courage, and other qualifications of the Russian soldiers, airt afraid, that from the same causes to Which the French. officer* owed their superiority, the Russian soldiers were not equal to those op-, posed to them in battle. An English subsidy, or an English force of 25,000 men, could not have Ildpp:ied this difference, aud it was the conscious ness of this inequality that induced the Emperor of Russia to put an end to a war, which, if protracted, i would have only added disaster to disaster, and increased every day the difficulties of this coun try, by extending her responsibility, a. 4 the ally of a tiatioirdaily suffering with her in one common cause. 1 have now enswered the irrelevant matter that has been so strangely brought forward in a question, the real merits of which have been so ably discussed by my Noble Friends. I shall not trouble your Lord ships with many more observations. Your Lordships Lave heard the testimony delivered at your bar, in which the embargo is attributed, net as has been strangely asserted, to the conduct of the late Mi nisters, but to the Orders in Council. Until, how ever, the whole of that testimony is gone through, unit its various bearing may be considered in all their relations, it would be premature to enter into it ; but when the opportunity arrives of dis cussing it with effect, I have no doubt your Lord- . ships will take it into your consideration. Enough, however, 1 think, has been proved, to spew that the Embargo was produced by the Orders its Celin a'. It has been proved, that one letter, anuouac ing these Orden, reached Boston before the Embar go took pl ace. But it is not merely the case of one letter. shone letter reached in that time, I may fiiirly presume that twenty to the same eflect were teemed ; and indeed, I may thank my Noble Friends (Lords Auckland aid Holland, who sat near him), for suggesting, that, in many instances, letters, Announcing these Orders, were received at ***rend places nearer than Boston to. the seat of Coveruwent ; and that, in fact, the American Mi nister arrived from this country with the full know ledge of the measure before the Embargo was laid an. When. them the whole of the testimony has been received, it will Le col:metes:it for your Lord ships to determine whether these Orders in Council have been attended with the most injurious con setinences to trade, or whether these alleged cons sequences be, as the Noble Lord ties asserted, nothing but the ingenious speculations of our merchants ? It will then appear whether they complain without season, end do not understand their interests so well as His Majesty's Ministers, who have kindly undertaken to manage their hnsinessletter than tkey could do it for themselves. But it is said. that though the Orders in Council were known in America prior to the embargo, they were iimpemtise, and, that measure was the result of the Order in Commit, of January, 1807. This, indeed, is most strange reasoning ; but the Noble Lords are satiafiell with any thing, no matter whet, provided it comity, a censure upon the late Minis ters. let as see, however, how the fact stands, and upon what grounds the Order of Jan. 1807, remained for a whole year without producing any effect, aud then made itself known, for the first time, in the measure of embargo. The feat is, that the Order was drawn up by the King's Advocate, en able Law Officer ; and though it only prohibited the coasting trade, it was not sufficiently clear to foreign nations that the prohibitionrlid not extend to the direct trade from one neutral port to an other. Denmark and America. construing the Order in the latter sense, remonstrated against it. explanation was given to Denmark, but none to America, and it is of this I must complain, and tins conduct I mast coudemu in the most pointed terms. The Order in 0=1%61, of January, I iso7, in its real meaning, con tained nothing to offend America—and this His Majesty's present Ministers well know. They Last a full and satisfactory explanation to give to America, but they refused it, and their defence is, that it would bean insult to that country to ester into an explanation on that point, and not to no tire others more near and important.—What a monstrous position ! It is idle to say. if oos cannot give all that is asked, that it is an insult to give all that is in one', power. But this could not answer the purpose of the Noble Lords. In their anxiety toprocure charges against their predecessors, they withhold this explanation. They could pall out the thorn at pleasure ; but no, they suffer it to fester and inflame, until they think proper to clap upon it the plaister of their Orders in Council. But supposing that they had no such explanation in their power, and that the Order of January. 1607, prohibited the direct trade from port to port, surely, sa the present state of the world, it was the duty of Ministers to decline all discussion upon the eithiect, and risk a war with America. With respect to the treaty, which is so pointedly al luded to in my Noble Friend's Itesolutions, it is now before the public, and they are competent to decide how far the reproaches, industriously circa lated *Oast His Majesty's late Ministers, are founded in troth. We were charged with the sue teoder of essential rights;with disi,paceful conces sions, with forfeiting the honour of the country.— There is nothiregolthat sort, 1 believe, inthe treaty. Those calumnies, then, that have been circulated against us, are proved to be unfounded ; and I wish I could say, that the charges against the present Miaisters, in relation to that treaty, were equally groundhans It is well known, that ao treaty is bind ing until it is ratified ; sad every man acquainted with diplomatic affairs must confess, that nothing is more common than to propose amendments, alterations, addition*. and insertious, in a treaty. after it has been signed. Taking. all the treaties that have been made for many years. into account, together., I will venture to say, that there is scarce ly one wt them that has not undergone this process. To send back a treaty. as was done in the .wars of the American treaty, as a thing wholly iisadmissibk and not to be entertained, merely because it pro posed souse alterations. was unprecedented and un- Justifiable. No statesman of a sound judgment. and actuated by a siamwe deire of pence, could have s• acted. This' I venture to evert—He ropy take which heehooeer. If be does possess* sound judgment, be certainly has not a sincere desire of peace ; for, in fact, it was saying to America, a e 'brill not enter into a discussion with yen it pon these alterations; bat by sending back the treaty as inad missible, we will not leave it in the power ,of the parties to ratify it, even though these alterations should he abandoned. The discusaion of this bu siness, has. however, done seine good. We were charged not merely with makiug disgraceful con cessions, bat with the surrender of essentiel rights ; but it was imputed to us as a crime, that we were backward in going to war with America. America, it was said, derived unfair advantages by her neutrality, and we were reproached fur haying let slip a gond oppor tunity of going to war with her. These calum nies were artfully and industriously . propagated against us. and from what quarter is very well known ; but a different feeling has been produced by the discussiou of the business; and it is now admitted that it would not be very desirable to go to war with America. Let then our adversaries take advantage of this conviction. We pledge ourselves that we will not deal as unfairly by them as they have dealt towards us. They reproach ed us with making concessions where we were maintaining • rights. They reproached us with yielding every thing to Ainerica, and in the next moment with irritating America to the measure of Embargo by our hostile conduct. Let them im prove the present disposition in favour of the continuance of friendship. with America ; and in stead of throwing obstacles in their witty, we will afford them every assistance in our power." His Lordship, after some wore observations upon the seal displayed by Ministers to seise every pretence for censuring th eir predecessors, concluded a long and eloquent speech. of which we have bevu able to convey only a very faint ides, by observing, that, as a Member of that house, he would ever state his opinion openly and boldly ; that as long as we possessed a tree Constitution, the country was entitled to a free discussion in its Legislature; that he aught all public discussion ought to go out to every individual in the community ; and that, as se individual, he wished it to go out to the ithrld at large, as his opinion, that night, that the Orders in Council were a ruinous measure. Lord HAWKLIMUILY contended, that the cense queatres of the conduct of the late Administration to Russia, in not supporting her, by whkb means she camel under the influence of France, were, the subjugation of Fertugal and Denmark, the emi gration of the House of Braganza to the Brazils, and the capture of the Danish fleet. as a measure necesioary to the safety of this country. When a subsidy was asked by Russia, if it was not proper to grant it to its fall ex tent, why net explasu, and give it in a smaller proportion, instead of offenug a loan, upon term. that never could be accomplished' If we could not send them troops to advantage, they were entitled toa subsidy ; for Russia and Sweden were our last remaining hopes on the Continent; they were fighting our battles, and for our exist ence; but so far from the late Administration wishing to assist our Allies, when he and his colleagues came into office, there was not any part of the army in readiness, or concentrated in any place, whence, if an opportunity had occurred. it would not have taken months before it would be ready for embarkation ; and if eves ready to em bark, there was not a vessel provided for the par pas. Tbis upathy of the country to waist its Piasiar cesstessioli &armed thaiiia; and &vie lber Isla the arms of France. He then took a ge ollnaview of the Oakes of Council, and defended dress is necessary step of retaliation against the instill and even that they would shew Amenca that there was a assissate to meet the embargo, for at the time it took. Ape, it was impossible the Or ders of Council should be known in that country. He concluded by observing. that His Majesty's Ministers would be happy, if, by negotiation, all differences between the two countries could be !fet tled, and the Houseemight rest assured, that every measure to bring it to a happy conclusion should be adopted. In answer to the Noble Lord oppo site, his Lordship said, Mr. Rase did net go out to negociate any thing beyond the affair of the Chesa peake, but he carried out dispatches, which were to go through another channel, mid he entertained hopes that when understood, they would lead to a speedy accenunixistion. HOLLAND VOW. to reply, but assured their Lordships it was the farthest from his intention to take up any great length of their time at that late hour of the night . There were two or three points which he felt it incumbent on him to notice ; the hag was the note of Mr. Madison. wherein he re quires an explauistiou of the Order in Conned of the 7th Jall. 1807, and states two propositions ; the first, that it might materially injure the relations of amity between the two countries; and the second. as it regarded tat natural rights of America; to neither of which did it appear His Majesty's Nlinisters had given any answer.— Now, how they could reconcile such conduct to their duty to the country was for the Noble Secre tary to have explained, but which he had not thought proper to do. The lieu remark he should make was, the m is -statement of the Noble Seceetary on what was said by his Noble Friend (Lord Gren ville) as to the evidence received at the Bar of the Haase. His Noble Friend had never asserted it had been proved on oath that the Orders in Couu cil of November had been the cause of the Embar go; but his remark was, that the evidence bad most completely substantiated the arrival us America of the intentions of the British Govern ment to issue them, several days before the passing the Embargo Act by emigre* ; and could Minis ters suppose such information would not be emu lated' in the speediest manner throughout the United States? Their Lordships must know it too well to require any argument in support of such an idea. His Lordship then al luded to the Tteety enteral Into by his Noble Finned (Ateeklevidi and himself, on the part of this country, and the .Ceesasiassoners authorised by the Government et the United States, which 1 treaty, he maiutaissed, else highly ad , antagenus to both entintrire ; sad es fey *my points net comm.; under the wenn of these on which they had ne gociated,lllofiajerey's late Ministers had given every assurance of their willingness to chemise these topics w ith the greatest sincerity. He was glad to bear from the Noble Secretary of State an acknow ledgment of the anxiety' of hie :ilajeete's present Ministers to eater into a negotiation for the set tlement of oil disputes between the two Govern ments, and hoped it would bring about so very suable an oliject. The beiag loudly called for, the House divided; Fur the Motion, es—Against it, 53—Majority, as. Atter the division, the Motion relative to the Expeditmo to tunstaatioople, of which End liner had gives Notice, ucc postponed, ear die, un account of the dangerous positive of Sir H Grey, ►is Lordship's suede It was also agreed to bear toideoce us Friday au s Mon day next, upon the blauchester sod Liverpool Adjourned at ON E LOCK this rnawsiag. HOUSE OF COMMONS. SUSSEX ELECTION COMMITTEE, 11•LI.OTTED CUR THIS DAT. R. H. &edible, Esq. Robert Thermion, Esq. Lord Veneto Polling - too Philip (;ell, Eaq. Jobe Henry Lollar, Esq. Julio Stanifoi:ll, Esq. Lord Viscount Egerington Johu Hudson, Esq. D. Stuart, Esq. Richard I.oug, Ea+ Henry Rinke', Esq. Charles Lemon, Eeq. The ROD. Wm. Howard wow:errs. The Right Hon G. Tinny James Graham, Eq. CHRIST CHURCH ELECTION COMSIITTEE, 11•LLOTTIIN THIS DAT. James Dawkins, Esq. Lord U.S. Monsen The Hoe. Robt. CHUMS C. Jeukiesos, Esq. Henry 1 Lofoten, Esq. hoses Dupre, Esq. T. Grienston Estcourt, Egg. TIMMS t% Mane, Esq. Jobe Fame, itsq. John Baker, Esq George Pocock, Esq. Cecil Forrester, Esq. Julio Terrain Turner, Esq. AOSIINAFIP. The Hem. J. Aberevemby. Richard Foster, Esq. Mr. BIDDVI.PII gave notice, that to-neureew lie would move a Resolution respecting the contieutiuts 1J the Coma saline of Inane. He at the same time land, that it our poreiroisety is regteinse of Re Item6evi•ef at r emitter who had occepied AU office of profit, he meant that . of Clarissa of the Ctenemittee of Ways a Wan lies object won to substitute soother same fur that of the Hug. John Ward. Sir T DONIS.% TUOTON gave notice, that immediately after the Reefs, he should, span the first open day, make his motion as to the Ceramic. He shaven he might Sc Tuesday, the ends of sod be gave this some as he wished Gentlemen previously to sake themselves enders of the subject, by a pernalof Me papers. Mr. PON SON Bli suggested Monday, the el of May, which, after a few aberration from the Hoe. Banat, was agreed to. Lord Hamel Rev automat notice of a esetiots, to-moo. row, for postponing the Liwasial Pieties. 1 he Lame A DieCATL of lscoruAs D gave notice of his intention, at MHOS (store period, to move for lease to bring is a Bill for the better Repletion of the Public Records in &edam& Is the mesa time, he moved tor " the produc tive of Copies of the Proceedings of the Cowinsisisiteers of the Public Records, as far as respected Seothied."-Or deren. Mr. Husain*, presorted ernes papers relative to liVinoth ad Forests, which were laid on the table, and ordered to he printed . The Indictment Bell, sad the Orders in Council Indemnity Bill, were severally committed, arid the Reports ordered to be recess ed tomurrow. Mr WV H ITURIGAD postponed the motion, of which he bad given seine for Friday, to Monday next. At the Manor time he expressed a Wish to know whether the Right Ho earahle Gatineau opposite would comae to protium the unilateral Articles, which had been allude,. to in a former debate, for, if sot, be would entente them in his mutton opus the day he had named. The C l e• Se C EILLOR of Hie Excosor 111 said • few words, perfectly Mandible to the Gailey. The committal of the Petitions against the Orders is Council was postponed to Friday wen. DANISH SHIPS. Lord FOLIIIITOWC Tete, in pursuance of his no tice, to submit his motion upon the tokject the, ramionitioft of these Ail*, at The period when peace should be attained. (In doing so we regret that the Noble Lord did not deliver his ieutiments in a man ner more audible to the gallery, so as to eivalde ns to do his Observations mere justice). We understood him to say, that he was one of those who had not entirely disapproved of the expedition to Copenha gen. In the opinion which he had at first formed, he confessed that he had been less shaken by the arguments which had been used against it by those upon his side of the House, than by the orguntehti of those off the other side, who endeavoured to support the frivolous defence that had been set up at different times by His Majesty's Ministers.— Approve of it, however, as he did, merely us a pro ceeding called for by the urgency of the case, he could not help thinkiim, that as soon as the state of affairs upon the Co:itinent pas changed, and the difficulties of our Situation removed, it would be an act of injustice in this country to con tinue any longer in possession of a fleet captured under such eircnnutances. As an argument in favour of what he MU now about to propose, he should remark that when that Expedition first ar rived at Copenhagen, His Majesty's Ministers were willing to enter into a negociatiun with the Danish Goverunient, and made proposals, which v. ere re jected Ly that Court. It was not to be wondered at, indeed, that such propositions were so rejected. He thou;ht it was impossible for any Government whatever to have accepted of them. Upon that rejection, however, measures were taken to enforce, by arms, what had been so proposed ; and the coos sequence was, what the House sod the world were well acquainted with. He conceived, that it would be a matter of great injustice to make that. resist ance, which was to have been expected from the national character of Denmark, a cause of re fusel to comply, even yet, with what was originally proposed by us to that country. The retaining the fleet upon any other pretences than those at first sug gested, after the safety of the country was effected, would create a suspicion as to the purity of the original motives which actuated our Governthent, and that they were merely as a pretext to the woad for our taking possession of that fleet, and after wards retaining it. As no crime was iinimtable to the Court of Denmark, but its inability (if such could be deemed a crime) to resist the power and ambition of France, it would surely be most un reasonable to pot the Danes in a worse situation than they would have been had the peopositu which had been made to them beets acceded to.— After what had been already, upon numerous oc casions, stated upon this subject. it seemed neei less for him . now to enlarge upon it ; and, there fore, he should merely content himself with moving a Resolution, the purport of which was— That an humph Address be priamated to His Majesty, es. seeing him that his faithful Comma= are lesions to sap port him he all those nissoares be may think prudent to adopt fur the sameity a( the euestry; and, ever whiskies, as His Majesty himself* to art with *gine and honour to wards other poem, they am desirous to ward °Wan) , saspi ening which may prove **ices to the character of the no tion, in coossmuence of the late stark upon Ileums& mil capture of hes Stet; tithe are, therefore, convinced of the propriety of shewiag Is tie sock( that the astiesi is winks to reatoft that fleet to hi original corset", isactsgtely upc the conclusion of a peace with oar euenlits; this tl.y &s al tbeiniwe oaccessary as we bad foinierly wade insuilar rupees flues to the Iheuiah Court, lurh we could hardly expect the Kiag of Desseark to agree to, frog' the peculiarity of his situa tion; they therefore hope that is Majesty will be induced to accede to this suggestion of lus faithful Commons, sad ant prove forgetful of those terms which were origioally offered to that scutral power, bet b. ready to fulfil theta to the utniust exteu• ' whenever the state of Europe ellercd a lit opportunity fsir ttoing so. This would, in the opiates of his faithful Comntous, be the best mode of evincing, ant, although his euemies are attnated by views of alubitiou, llu Majesty will never be induced wastonly to attack other odium, but that his repose and security alone rendered it necessary in the present instauce, sad that he is now dein roes of healing tluae wouuds which be had thus into:us- tent, given. - Upon this motion being read from the Chair, Mr. illtriND rose, arid urged further arguments in support of it. Nobody could doubt, that as it atlectvd the character of the country, it was a question of the utmost importance. He differed fromehose who defended the Expedition to Copen hagen, as to the Law of Nations allowing a belli gerent power to adopt such a conduct towards au unollending nation, upon the grounds of de fence, without producing sufficient to justify the necessity of the measure. This, in his opinion, had not yet been done; although Europe and the world were entitled to be posse~►ed of that justifi cation, Mini►ters having • pledged themselves, to five it, by the words of ills Majewty's Declaration. Not to recapitulate former arguments, he should assume that we had a right, by national and public Lye, to extract, from a week and defenceless power, those means she possessed which were likely to be seized by an enemy, and to be employed against is. Such would have b een the ewe, hail Franco actualV beets iiiTiossessiolef Holstein. • We might then, upon every principle of fairness and justice, have been exculpated for taking possession of every iiieutss of offence in the power of Denmark. lie should eontend, however, that if the violence and inordinate anabitiou of Bonaparte were to settle into beneticeut feelings and moral practice.; if the former relations of Europe were to be re-esta blished by another peace of Westphalia, so as to settle again the various original bounda ries of former powers, we sLould undoubtedly be bound in tumour to re-establish Denmark, and to restore her captured fleet. Necessity •had required the possession--justice the rest.- ration of the Danish vessels to their original owners. lf, therefore, it were possible to retain that fleet in such a situation as it was when first taken, it would be becoming that known cha racter for justice which bad made this country great in the world, to shrew that all unfair and im proper motives, which might be dictated by a sense of policy, were overcome by our sense of duty.— The complete restoration of this fleet would un doubtedly be the only true criterion by which the world at•large would be enabled to decide and judge of the real distracter of the action which we bid committed. He•, therefore thought that it world be better to adopt this measure in this early stage, rather than upon. any future occasion. This was as it were at integral part of the action, and would supply what had not appeared in His Ma jesty's Declaration, by *hewing that we had not taken such steps from solely interested motives. Mr. SAM ULL THORNTON thought that we, as a Belligerent Power, weri_pot,tionasd to restore that - whielghseirelVtletertireet - esoity of taking by force of arms. Denmark placed herself in the mine situation, immediately upon the commence ment of hostilities, as she would have been at any future period of war. He contended, that there was neither policy nor justice in the measure now proposed, as It was as yet petfectirunknowo what might be the intention of His Majesty's Ministers upon the subject ; nor did he know that they had hitherto shown any disposition to make such a Resolution necessary. The motion of the Noble Lord, therefore, appeared to him to be of such a nature, that it could not be agreed to. Strintgers were about to be ordered to withdraw ; when Sir Timis. Tuaros rose, and spoke a/consider- . 4 •-• able length against the motion. He bad no doubt that the Noble Lord had been pronr}ted by pa- taotion in bringing it forward, but it evideutly conveyed an improper declaratioo to the Powers of Europe, that we were biodiug ourselves to the re storation of the Danish flea, whatever might be the future circumstances that might arise in oar relative situations. If it had been merely owing to the weakness of Denmark that their fleet bad been captured, it would no doubt be our bounden duty to restore it; but was this the cast ? No. He had always reckoned it a measure entirely owing to that covered hostility, which was ultimately main fated by Denmark. She bad entertained hosti lity towards us from the earliest part of the Revolution of France to the present moment. (Here the Hon. Baronet stated numerous facts, from which he inferred this hostile disposition on the part of Denmark.) He disapproved of many of the papers now on the tab:e baring 'been at all produced. Many of them containe d correspond enc.* and intercourse of a confidential nature, the production of which would tend to destroy our fu ture 01. - e ktenatic intercourse with the powers of Europe. by &enrolg that we did not hesitate at (Ins. • closing that which was never meant to meet the pablit eye. He hod never heard it contended by Ministers, nor any upon their side of the House, that there was any new o.cliocl of moral obligation, by which their conduct was to be regulated. k The principles of right and wrong remained the same in regord to their tendert upon this occasion. if it were odic . ..oat, it ought surely to be repro- • bated. Llesausatit was evidently prepared to go to war with us, iithoogh, perhaps, it might - have been at the distance of two or three months ; and bad we no* every re v,on to know that a merintae confedaacy hat into entesedito ft riner:s4 and WIG likely to be • , ai Wei it :at the refore more rodent and oolitic, so . well as just. to • take possession of the iG rotten hulk (es they had been denominated by some) time be biped t • join that Norther.o t.‘onfederare? Three Orwell hulk* were Dot to be computed by pounds, shillings, awl pence. Their trite value was to be q u estion e d be the reflection, that b) -0036t.4it.g It. a we had hrokru one link in the chain of the Ntordurn Con- fedcracy. Without 111Poleing oursetves to the res toration of these ships, he was ostafiol that the Government of the couota would, s neo the Pro per occasion occurred, take the matter into coo. • •