The Statesman. — London, England, 1813-03-03 00:00:00

the interference of -the Cleartof to its political opinions, them in a country which doctrines of a similar 0 though required by the thou meats of Catholic count decidedly called for and ition of tlen•Pope, who - , yeterate enemy, May Dec( mow of his perfidious am not, in my allusion to ti thority, forgot to call the use, and employmenfit( Monks and Friars deriet iferen t reikitals, may swot of -politica. ends, minis of these principals, orders and institutions obedience. Why, lot t tiot“ from the See of IL of These religious orders, trely ? -What necessity cealmeht? -fieetainly •of oonfessien. .1 am, apart to facts which with the truthcof which Wbere concealineut is jmtion to concealment and consrientioes feet mon, and as they stets of public intercourse, anent trey not only unnecessary 'most itert-4.arily become frost end well-founded ticcdthe'estirre of the look in the course of the .adopterfin the'eommittee, to the-Freto, which has • jectaf discussion, both -'the care I.ltave bestowed this point, Imust confess -the Catholics can find __ certain' cases been maintained, with the best -ipirit of -their religion, and with the justice of their claims. I have been lately led to believe , - _ _ assured . louse, that lie convinced any real benefits were likely to arise from going intst the proposed Committee, no man could be more disposed to assent to that measure than him __ cid I am now confirmed in the opinion, that" this Veto affords, not. only no ;satisfaction to the. Ca tholics, but that it. is even condemned as a mea.. • sure which- we have • no tight - to - require. But; Sir, '• be this as it may, it .becomes my duty to state facts ac they have acteally occurred, and to assure the Douse, that -this Veto was . . - not - proposed either by myself ; ;or by' thoie With whatll I had .the ii,inour to aet. On • the contrary, Ski : I can venture to state; that it was formally - and et piicitly -propelled to his • Majestyrs Ministers - by, the Roman Catholics then?selyee:. I Can also state,' • with the-same coundenco l thatto idenwaseeer enter-1 ..isieed of ecqui ring patrortige;inthe Catholic Chtirch, oirthe partuf the Government, in consequence of the Veto; which was not,as I havitobserved, the favourite nieasore of sorcoileatues or usiselfi but-which, in • trettlt„ was first• hehi.7 oat es -the'result Of .the- best • wishes and 'mature - deltbenitiene of the Catholics themselves...l. will 'ha:still' Snore oteplicit.On' this • head anti! caw add, t h at Such arm thole liberality on-the occasion; that they ran hefsiVe iheittitibes and. • *outstripped the .detdres of the 4 Geeerinnent -itself.— am, tberefo're, authorised at tiring clown this plain • "and.undeniable principleitherthelleitthe • in their - avowed character es hisitett ; men; haveno 'iright to attribute to-the Govonisneni any idea of'. 110. 1 qeiring patronage in the Citholie I Clierch' by.. the! i•esercise of the Vete; andlgtat'the Veto was in le: alitynot suggested by the Gobrstinette; bat was pro: pnied to the consideration, and eetommeeded to itie adoption of Ministers by•thebtiftlivii: This ptint4 • ple did not go byany means, swell any "possibti operation, to sever the Pope fftentlieCathelitChbech. ' It was proposed to learn from their oaf% statements' . and their own opinions, the - state iiidcasiaition of individuals whom they were deliessesibf-*lciist .'the situations which the,' dished fiiteve . s preperlf . filled ; the proposition came iiithlhvi more earnest*. mess, from the certain conirktioirthat it 'Wes thiitf * teed to prevent the revival oflatzfek •jealettliee,- the diffusion of animosities and blekerfngs; Vrejudi - chit 0 the'-interestrtad hippiSest •of the eommuttlty at large. In etpresslr tnrvtisit to -bite the Clans= self. He felt it due, however, to his own feelings and conviction, to observe, as the Noble Lord bad .mentioned the authority of Mr. Pitt, as having.un dergone no change of mind with respect to the ques tion before the House; that if the Noble Lord meant to say, that Mr. Pitt was of opinion relief, ; should be 'extended to the Catholics of Ireland, he agreed with the Noble Lord : but if the Noble Lord meant to say, that Mi. Pitt's mind had undergone no Change whatever on the. subject, and that his opi nion was not affected by any. new objection, he I should beg leave to differ totally with the Noble I Lord.; for he was convinced, that if Mr. Pitt were ! at that moment in the House, he.would iota against the motion. Lord CASTLEREAGH explained.-11e contend ed, that Mr. Pitt. had been uniformly consistent in I supporting the expediency of the Catholic Claims ; and in advOcating that sentiment, ucinsively of his I own individual experience of that great Statesman's opinions, he begged leavE 'te' - appeal to the cantei which had infiuenced hitiottig out. of .office; With fiesta to the particular line of conduct which Mr. xdoOil-rjet: he 'ROO g nt, hn would Will* to the ..Holumotikiiiiiile, whethertisey,- thei • Hon. Gentles:Lei* titeself„ . icould be jesti..' ht ddirering.a dild4W 46 l4 l3 tell• ' • • Mr. MANNERS SUTTON objected to the lipterini wily in ithikh the Petitions .from the' Pr.- testants had been treated:. Going into a Committee, unless they Went intoa ftill deliberation, sad came decisien,..would be productive of more evii44ban benefit:. ercitiog . hope, in the Catholics th a teidited, and a ,. ferment tip the Protestant • .0 readily to be a Hayed. He denied the inst.' 1! - Ibe ebsrge of indecency against the Protestant vasikAilhopir t they hid taken. Thoagh they itad take part in any question, yet .this Was - IP . tht political question, because the very ~.iitegatia...p. X lposed were . for . the. aecority of the Protestant Church. It was not for monopoly. - 011-potewtj , Ca 'because they feared this meature *owettl&—aftitt the' -stability of their Esiabliih _ mg go. mittee, I de it the more strictlly; becatisrl am con. winced His the best Jot the only of *meeting the wishes of those who eta fri endly to the - Catholics, and of - encountering and fattifying the:Objections of those who are inimical' to their 'elafini. I concur in resting 'this right Airien the sane "piinciplee which I bid down and supported last year. .Theßight Gentleman who brdught forward thig qbestkon i —iu l way certainly which deft honour to his •cancioni and 'abilities, no less than to the'canie..vihieh he ad. vocates t —tells. us, that he theanityi propose in OW Committee-a general &Wittig:ln; is the foundation • of the Bill which he intendslo propose ; .and he assures no w t* the Bill will be in the. Strict con formity to the .ResniatiCn. This line of conduct I • .think perfetly fair, for the Bill . must of coarse we submitted to the Committee, and after, having uNdergone. thus- umandaation which it may be • found t 4 require, it Witt be thew for, the House to determine, whether the Bill be, fit and proper to be entertained. So far I readily coincide with the views of the Right Honourable Gentleman • I to _ - ment, that they petitioned.. He was • 'kicked 'tethartniti'epreseittittiini of the Chirge.of the Bishop of 'toitir.Oiti s , by .a Worthy who spoke of that Prelate as his respected friend. He ;toped he since read the pamphlet, and altered his opiniou, ItiVaeleweield otherwise appear Most extraordinary. IftscXWMitintt's authority, whose decease 'in sects. Arnes as these he ...much lamented, be had no` new proposition to offer; hut With common i opportunities" of.intermitiOls be believed that Mr.'Pitt was sincere is his otijPet t . guarding-it with proper securities, but that he did not'act upon it, owing to times and cir. cumstanoes.—He thought that if Mr. Pitt were living,. he would not have agreed to go into the committee,' unless he know what. was the nature of tho measure to be proposed. . Sir R. HERON rose to explain. Aalicitioorable Gentleman, last night (Mr. Robinson), bad'charged.', him with gross caters's?. • The speech 'of the Non. and Learned clantimmin Who spoke-last', seemed in.. tended to crash at once se feeble an Andirldnal os he was. It was! a ' .mtarepresentatiost of what he well Velma had total , , 3et I must say, with all the candour which the Right: bad actually; said. He remembered .he .._ _ _._-.—_ .tlon. Gentleman bas . ...a, right to expect from me, that' said.—in the first pface he had. not eat_ " the Right 'to be forced on the couriry. Were the the proposed • Bat is _oi t e„ if I understand it as I' Rev. Prelate his Nobtd Friend;. nor his rriend—he of his side of the House capable of. forcing should, designed to repeal all .former acts against only said he had. i - perionel' respect for'stilm-the country ?* It had been said, if there was net the Catholics, with the simple .but full recognition' word friend would byre been- improper in-his mouth. 'plan, it would be better not to go into a of the Established Church. If this be ill' the pre* As to the wgrds pot in hit mOisth, he - believed no.- at all, that this Weald produce no toed. Aston to be iner'O,;.--1( this bean the safeguard to ii. thing would bo more satisfactory, than to read thw - ndt ell-the discussions hlthertq dons . mach ~ t 4p for. the establishment is Church and State, at passage, to which he ,had alluded * and then they IHe hod hard, indeed,. thittht Majority of , it actually exists,--I must, Sir, now • declare that might Jude how far he bad been guilty of gross'oa• fof this( costetry were at pregarat.egilast th e . this Bill shall have.'any decided a n d Ouquilified op- bunny. [Here the • Ilkin' Baronet read .att extract ;: Ile wat or an ekactly opposite opinion. position; -for, anxious as I am to obtain the befit [from the 10piscopal Om*, tied centindesk thit it ' t that' tile makiiity, of the educated part of the people possible: security, for the preservation of the coos& warranted him in making the. application - 4+ols *' of this country were for conceding those Claimeorjad ",tition in Church apd Stile, rail hOun,d i tot maintain, i had dobe.] ..• . . ,•: . • _ .. that they,possesaed an anxioes 'dellaAtli ihitt ;uch a Hill cannk - imPart Any securityiprepor- I Mr. ROBINSON explained. -;•He hadoilled: * thi Measure examined into ini: Parlitiment. tionate to the apprehensions and rem which a mea- t statement that the Catholics were, opposed hy sipeurciaid, that the motion. ought not to be listeand sure so very,general'and undefined . must excite. Let [ with mitres op Ilteir.head and some Withmitreltli i whe could accesissuch a security As a note/__ me ra th er speak out plainly, and say, , that such i 1 their heads, a gross calu mny, and irons that itlittips• 1 114* a Mill - 107 were Genslemen actiainted,_ ~ Bill would calt,into qbestion the very securitof the 1 , axon he did not depart.- •• ! : ••• An' relleisitiont ',•• of Ms Right . ' Honourable, 'F.1111114, Constitution,as it is pt present established iss Church . Mr. M. SUTTON-also explained. . .. -.. aistitingair.i• :the security which should be tirf:i and State. I canout, Sr, consent to a- lieseelsing : Mr. PONSONBY said) an Honourable Gentle: Oki* bat I.l4ol4ylakt Writ Was desirable tdlffit Bill of Repeals, . with o ut the adjustment . of man who spoke from under the Gallery (Mr. 'Janke') : .seeriinvirrithlaibeestellfishmeatain Churcb and P ... pointo,-;--withouttbe settlement of dislststedlclainui, had stated, obit he could not now rote for the eon,' 1itt....P00400# is - continuation, alsserstag ... •s UM* , l_, *Abbot the s w ai n of 'bai t D o ernu e s s e w hieli4se !aa*b ou ' im i M, On account Of the intenipershie Of the high 'lola Maw, 41WIlirallOpOriesi • *tin ON tAnkohRIK imirturbali,legiog as, idol' tilt be in. absurd and piece' VAtittnics. With regard to'the intemperance of . the Mies thstAkatato nod tipdency ef •their • prindplesll they tot 'fairly power Whatever within the King's dominions. If remained. Notwitstanding all the ObjectiOnt which. the spfrituar and temporal power of the Catholics had been made to the Mal*, proposed by his was so dangeroas; it might be well to look into- what = Right Honograble rripod ) hi, Opinion was , were the effects it produced. In what way was the that much good "egg pecessatily, result from the P•MlPittee. ....• enectsii iy spiritaal power dangerous?--Would it empower the going into a ,:liteigh all that was re- Pope to raise att army against this Country ? To de- quired should not be ultimately conceded, for, icy bail& its soldieys ).* To resort, to open force, or tree- such a *step, a large proportion of the Members. ,f No, °realm!? But in no way could this happen, ;- thir Ilouse will show the. Catholics' that they are according to the oaths which the Catholic's themselves : well disposed towards .. Would it 'lad taken. When the Noble Lord opposite stated j not be a great. faiour to the Catlioltra , s h ou ld they. that he would go into a Committee, he had felt a • now find granted to them what., had:beee : so fre- Satisfaction, bit that satisfaction ties greatly abated;!, quently' before refutied ? Vdr . it, mn4t tie , remem when be heard him again say as certainly that he bered, though they have petitioued . apt ; Session Would rate Against the Bill' to be introduced is that after Session, that the Heim bad neves. ne yet don. Conimittee.- 7 -4/lere " Lord Cookreagli ;aid: rented go into Cemmittee en the Catholic across table, as iktiribidl ::-Ell'orte list& 4 -etaims.-Will it not then, and most it not be, been Made - it'twadi ff ereik triaeiVlO - bring forward '; after so ,Many disappointed. emlnieours, a 'ciicqtp projects of fecarlties..' ,. The .firit'it ekes wail thelitietie highly agreeable to their wishet; a nd well- Veto': Ha was notfcerieln bdt -sight be , foutided expectations. Priun sousethiAig :that .had brought forward egois t 'Weenie not •tree; iil dropped from a Noble Lord opposite., JO Spore beAbeen Rated, thattlib (,atholic lg . ** . hid even' ; headed that 'that 'NoblaPerson, though he veited t'pr 'said, that they would * j eer t °Me to tite.;Vetb.itll the Comiiittee,,did so, not :tett4 a :wish % peihaßs, All that thiyhia Sold, that it vras tindfl et tte 'hilt with appreheusitins„ or expectations, that rte. time when It was proposed . ' Thst`iia.. voirieiljhkni would be . done in the Comiiiittee.. INa, ,by many• Gentlemen in that House, and at, %riots Lord Castlereagh 114 had ,thennet abjured by the Catholics, it was not - iMposeible apprehended the Noble Lord ; and he was happy ;ithsit it would not be brought Ilirward agaid. -It was that • be - bid - done ; for he now was ieady Aerie's anoughythinniere te . ,hear the Right Hon.l to thit „his hoop on the subject . w4re Ntlld Learned Gestfoiniiii4;l4.W.Scritt).endearinring more ianiiiino than irlieriiie 'ruse to address the'. le show that the Catholics, according to their prin- House this night.. He *height, and he was glad to ought not to consent to 'this plan. • Another 't find liiintelf wrong in thinking, that the Noble Lord project' was domestic nomination: . WAS it its bad' se had:declared hithself of opinion, that nothing could the Veto t Iflorlis worse in the opinion of the Right 1 , be expected to be do .the C ommittee, whilst the Hoe. aid Learned Gentleman, And more Anti-Ca- . ! Pope was in the • power of the Emperor of the thong then the Veto.. •His groat anxiety seemed tai,french. As the Neble )100 had disclaimed this be to-leCture the Catholics, and to sho' them that ~ o p inion, he would beg,leava to recount- fld, that no they eauldnot ciesclanfiously gratify . the House out person should rots for going. into the Committee, these points. As *Ma as :an Occasion occurred; j who. was ;determined to do nothing, or expected every oppOrtunity minutia be taken to assure the Ca, ! that nothing would be *dope in that Committee, for tholics that'they could not , with propriety grant what such a , proci'a are would serve only to excite would be demanded of them, in order„ that diet dissatisfaction by gleinglbirth to . disappointment. might Safely 'call for iecirit' Jos 'from • diem vihlch *Salm frOm thhildne slat no geed seas they knew could not 'be afforded:, This Catholics Iltel t i o reevw flea' Ciasnittee; that Ae espectre numb s ler shoat* bow in iris* Conakittee, nay Measlier *ere accused of entertaining g9tne . secret 91nplonst the onon vas at libeity to .prepese whatever amendments, which deprived us ofthe possibility of belleiins then @tailings; orlosp_roveineals be should Oda necessary in An on oath. Much- hid been said mfr Basnaltigtellion: tr . rietit Mich bid been 'rid, glace she td'sdoillemessesseat at tltis &waive, -above the seeunties expected ration and their. equivikatioa. !" - Bit he . ' always BOikk' whatiii ..1441414#* lit. .„ktopq .--- ----- syst a a i ma . mr. — '-- ___ _ .....".mmt read from the Catholic Prayer . ' anew , tunnel lOW th e iSeregt • alltcdon ofte a t i tiect ware, at n trine was on this Sultisci.:,-- 46 .ISla a fel itrtitt ' tiwifilhilat' kiti"alitgluce••'-[ Mr. Wirt bear 13 . I irAltitettgli he unateadito doctor% that be • had . a great Gam in our religion, that napeive4ou'earth nvii4.---IN 41t * Marti ; t e iaf ei; w i n ch e d * H i l oc o , th is , sithjec., of .. • • . 0.... • Se to lie, forswear, or perjure theinselvel,7 Oe:le e mas*.l.b4, ' wool& awn • t tit*. Vrii Me pO ll lit of view in vitlicit sacra their neighbouis, oopretenCe - of-fils*Tipi , the t , 0 " I "" l „„l.:;, f l 4 4" imma Y,k -whu ' i mil IWlli si r f t e x .. ttr i i t t o t i l i d % interests of 'the Catholic Religion, or on' sTy : other 11 1. 21 i safely 1,1• . , .!itii respect intherch iii " St g itte ~* that the ta pritetice."-4t is further said, ' dot ~t . iiirol l o4s ll- . i 4 " l "W an° P Pc/fralbeir r eadilla 6 . octraill -!Sngths In * ' i , and , v diapsettian • dons, for that 'purpose San. have: no' Otkot effect than that of adding blasphemy and magete ' 'detestable 'cricie.' .--But would it he•wriag . Catholics 'to forswear themselves;. and Were and misrepresentation right in the PrOt*itsti wrong in the 'Catholic ?—Where were ft and •infamons papers *hick had been''' . employed against the , CatbollasT;4e , " circle of thole persons who opposed tholic Claims, ft the Third Part itesi lt o Leans had been found. in . the on Catholics, bow would . .the .ouse the repetition of their insinceri ty and ; —[Hear, kear U—But it could:not be, • which was vice in one maa, • was virtue in , ThiNoble bird had said, that this was net ~i w~ the interferon* to its Politioa them i n a court doctrine of a though requiro meats of Cathi d ec idedly cane ition of thoVo veterateenemy. mom of his pet ' lo t in my alit th o rity, forg o i uses and emplu 'honks and Fr iiiireeent !whir; meat of ( vilitN hands o f the orders and in! obedience. 11 tioni from 4 Aie of ?here religit tre -c y ? •Wh eealmeht? •of oanfessien. sptict to facts with the truth . . ltibere coucea imtion to co and •conscien mon, and 111 tests of puhl anent cry' not I ."Meet iteco4.at iregt aq Nell ticcd:the ; natir look in the co ; . .adaptettin the I •to the-Froto, w , f • jeer ‘of discossi -the care I•lrat • this poi*, Fly —the. Catholics certain' cases • •of then their claims. god am oov Veto affords, !holies, but t • lore which- w '..be this as it m • • - . . . . .• . • -. . , . . . . . - *. . irmiegrom . . , , • . .. . . . . . ... . , . _. _ _ _ ......., ___ • . . , . (putt of RoMer with reghtir 2tOtata , D o o 6 l o , 6 ll , lil_ 4 ! ____,Oge r e 4e • • alddaa Calluißgis s.. it.ha4 tietblii.wbateter td tad With tbd Ward hostile to Albertyi4 a period to which id ' wan taneeevo cermuttaall as, and the diasemiaatkagt - , 104 c =blie, **lied natal" thit 1 .... * I t Is t quiadillalpialitiala YES, . whether thermithir of . i alluded was that which upon tin. dew of the • i h does not entertain religloevauegt i eo s i ,ali k ib il a im ee d m m so i s t id : :wt - igere . 7ololomequetalltlaltiqe4 . fte the oemaideratlen Revolution. But . . tail 'elzpsotaties of thitt parte& • nature. This safeguard, , al. tesasaitorcel e t and tp ttipel le . IA of Parlimaesh_ • - .-Vb.ti , l4lllU 'list bar** theirish wore oot,like those tit .' •. "tient limes i for the i establishments and GoVerie "Ilidastiai dialer k °hit * . - 'ebaistry,l4lll Ca t h ali o v aWati a l minlialOPClO All 11Peech et the .ouly,pootettlop from * Qii Hie ettholitis edeldtbett :tries th emselves, is still meek ,- ' ta la a:i ab ,Catb# ll". 441' &emu of Right • giraittillibta .' Sktratrylast light,* and the re • look.to for any :chit from the severe laws enacted iis% i enforCed by thepeculiar alto)" , . tinsa °°! il°l . T o , r i ar n l i t • --ii.i %, * lla* bedew east by bile on I Reber &skip .orthe igeiost them by tb n Presbyterians, was placed itt the ' r zte‘ 4 0 ' li r ~ • - 1 ilve beit detained by our mostia - la i a ., ol ,To * bowing the dan g er .- . • bt.i at Chuarb, at heist tks *lmetecelatie . SI . the BishOp at , expettplans they entertabied from the friendship of . r compelledtobecoinetheinstv_op:olanabie. I oactilb ol 9 wpahl '• . *alai, Lincoln . •' . I the Cfewn.... ft was natural that they who were, at ol d a mbiti ous v i e ws. - • I should. I ". ~), 7:P e pana ca tg e rs ae c ' t iaa t ,•-•'—; "' .c.' ', o . ll ' w iti i - da to Th''' Mr. CROKER rose,.amidst 'et% of ' Order And , that Aline its strenuous se pportets, should had •' ' theinliaence of the Papal an:. . Mr:Power; butt emote have moaning . • • Onside Chair, to . captain what bed bean' saki by the 844.11Frekt 'e x pe c tation s from its favour and : protection; , le attention of the liousatothe to reader that lutercoune, Mocejlqr pre , H o m-sectataly. . , . . • : I AnTit ought to be rementbered, that the views enter: congenial to the spirit eon practice diadem. vv. to which the different orderli of fie - 14k tide. and Learned tierisart, - * si l k! Ake. SPEAKER absolved, that Ito Honettrable. table 4 at that time by the Catholics, vrert. hot more 1 encline 'upon 'Ai' int 4 it . thole - ' ..... to woe tewporary and continiest_ Mlle sae*. Member coul d be allowed Ati.asviala what a nother :hostile . to • liberty . than those eotertsined 'by the mace and . ; ay 'be perverted - for the := l tt ble 1"1/eacceP sd indefinite= in .. ' I,crown; Wi t h respect to the arguniegt s titt there *ae r SO vague— ,in cousequeaco , of the cola*R tatlbilveltimay results mrisfacrarY Whet Ontaraltabesusalcs: ha d Sia' r. P d. O . IISO.N . BY re . smiled. He was glad to fits, t!at i danger to be apprehended from _tbe 'Omission pals,. to whom their respective _____, 4 _ l l° llo4 ° C°164119, or l T t h e VC: ° Lt . • . fa he had not been net of eider. When the tempe- ..; of.the Catholics , ' he must say, Oa( it did pot appear . s have sworn submission and -I.7.st,Tvbantl tape ai s , ? wir g:s . vond- redid Ne • l ogye lti.' ranee of iho Ida' Cathellca we's talked of, If those itei hug so extremely probable, as the otjeldirs seem. me ask, ire the communina. , West p e m isameme ? The might -slohl . - mpacelii. who so accused them knew what wiuithe state of the , mita 'suppose—that vhf treat body of Prbtestiots, Eteme, or from the principals iO4 a deOd lesser.; and I t at e e P tea • ' ; it .. bole ti Press employed whist them, they would not Mime Iby whose unction the Olthelice weie on 'the sur4 / , 1 aav i terZlament. Utvon SaY coutrAhord- . • s .rs to be : made-matters of se. 1 t ki - " cotton, l am c am Amt d m " — . i m . , theta: All these Prints were known to be favoured.! Milieu, admitted into that House, wens tery . likely . . may can there be • for con. I lueldr•propor asid Just, reitil!lloar ; ;Tri_Ey!ltleass _,dot by the Right Honourable Gentleman ' s Gover de ntnent, • ito concur with the Catholics in subverting oar_ Prof none, but in the single point ! itenr al t: t r ed . t t ittr , f l o l a l l : p l:7o, r 7." , tile i r Targ a : and they were constantly emplo y ed n elan der end :testaut establishment in Church and . State. It had with .:re. +vire,' initirsioarees. means, oad . activity, . U Ahie . girem vituperation against the CatholiCs.- . lHear, hap - L] - been - 41,i0 objected, aahls Right non. Fe,kind • (Mt. , 11! Sir, now speaking cannot be contradicted, and i Om, I Bait P t vote for, g n a n i e l!f o r a t i t iva s. I .-The House had heard it stated, that the principles Grattan) had proposed no specific plan, that nothing J.! i every Catholic is acquainted. ' 7:7:47 4 ,6 47 tip a rlia l" a t t ja'u„,„l"' s s i bi es t , of the Catholics were ai unchanged -as the doctrine watt . liked" to _be done . after going into the caw; necessary; I can have no. ob. ; 'vary and guard: for rhe.Rl:irmaga..44 ~ l- y of the Church; and that these principles were is reit*. Yhose Who made the olaictfoo. ought to , , m in ' matters of pure religion :.= . l . O a L, iy e a tili z , , ; :e tly,:r me re:rizo. .. . . • . • Apt i-kneer aft what Iprd - ray they amid ask beyond what ; ten, that had such a plan been proposed ir aatbe Gee- • - • ?ding ; but in those - corn. ai„.,Tht.iiivrisountable °wade. in the hi should be and really are, is red.i.i.eed. and l in the thraldom to which be is degraded by s I the Catholics offered. It had been said the Catholics .tlemeit seemed to contenfoite, it woolstbe 'Contrary ~ mune, secrecy and conceal. riitaatar th at th r=t e e i :T re Y a L e ; t iona l ma n° be P reaam e agarm l l i did net• seParate the spiritual from the temporal 'to the vales and orders ,of this Wise.,, It le. iiiid beets - 1 ecessery, but when exercised, by precautioeitand•provieium, which it Will become thgviiiiiiti power of the Pope, and that this - refusal rendered ' also objected , as the plan piapasad . 6iAiiitieht 'Hai, una Me Subject -of just dig - •- a di e e t b tragTe tier alerbe ihr i t i t 'le i, ge rte l la t r e datr... ilseegg i s o ns ibk,. to listen to their "Claims.-, If a matt 'Prieed Was merely a general school,/ only of stnte• I suspicion. Having, Sir, no-,.a s b u i a th e mim , . 4 , 4 4,, r *it brave , ..7 .., ;-,, , *e l, props solemnly . ilyst-ha `did not • believe 'the Pope, [thin; that ought to be demi, that; no goad smiititi . J. . . and laboars Inn* be felt w' "I ~•;.,* Er *moy- esko s -ecniesiestiini jt the t •NA a eight ; resell from going into the Colapiktee, utiles! we *ere = • security to whicla naturally ! thir 1 :he proceedings which may be 0 et., ads c „=" s / P o r g h : v .e t i : t e :ft - •;, ,, ••• 4 7 - .'4 0 .,••• .30. . 'ip..ally .teMporal; .powne id is :fro. nt?Y; - irould '4,4b , '. - i eble- - TbiosOle-fec ' kla jet cee . ' aid not 1, . . , . „ thee, I next direct my attention „country, antt to she 1 . interests rilr! 6 “ • re . lIPO I O . I nosy or would . they not liot . believe - blirei--.40,* iw zmiow—cathottec..o.o44.:fitot co n li x ei..is, a , --.--..:„ . .. 1 I it say duty to go- Imo Or cosuOtteep! did - not believe 'him, then they must sitpribe t favour nefiiiicesiiitits, made t i otheet by this USSIPie - ..; ''. • • '( So' frequently become the sub- j t w h i e l le PriariPlar• „,... - • ere all the doubts aad dithealtra comaected a ;vid!the e :s li m j . e . t . .t i.mm. a monster. . _Did they believe that . the CAI* , : yet he was read' to contaiss.thqit Was not ra i tionatty:" •#' ain and out of doors. After all will be Garl tuft ofd /Gemmed, apd wean i eitigati JU, . red upon . the consideration of ,in au probability , p . mdnee results eiti . ally calculated to give is- ; tholics placed any raid% in the solemnity of an oath? jto be expected that the atholics could ever , .be cool. - r • /1 rein lam at 'Floss to , find how : tedaetru. to . th ` . I;thils.°l the C 4 ,1 , th th . le!' and mu t t, ' to th e . I Then the Catholics had sworn that no ecclesiastical - pletely satisfied' with their condition, • whilst a.), • . , .1 mutation in Church i it . inconsistent .., at it basin I !authority ever had or ought .to have any temporal • disabilities to • which they were n ot *fairly liabto, .. .•( t Mr. ROSE assured the House, that if lie were 1 nnurar vorhatavor within tha lanes dnmininna. If ...ainalk Nntwitatnndinn all theiCaltiatefidiniti 'rhirk ' I i 6 '.!„ _ 1 Wr IIII . 16 ,: WierTesPeiitiiiiiia iiiiiiiiiiirOiiiiiiisisii4l;iiiiinTL 11ewould 1 *wet eaM" 'ROM IV 111 the N oble Lord uppoiite , as *hod .1 011, with riieg'h tO ' the AO oirlhefdtahlrellees With Anseries, that_ , hiserever beepp;otd d .- . .. r i ng i n $ lie -ofshreeirdirtlif althisfry, they doubt' MS* - iris sneers: .. His k i w ere f ort o ry l ee POShefisild - tisited histrielete, he ; frogs his owe , ,ingt,oot., of st ribs for i e d , ;•• Y. elly,Mitistlse.; ALIO &ler the ' so he' woirid his o t es t an t s a n d, ~tsererore, as osarie= s 4p a pr i ertiiiiills d t he ry I" • 4 i . lei "Of •Itte) . :ll;4lll t irtela the 11 sbosld ll 2 I LUT ir . _ y _ l* ii shZ er. 11111-" fr he t bellies d always . . I ' Ali .: "in" li kTh "quagilltaiehfeett OPllP‘olamhow sad smears , . lawn. a t 6,7:47, k a ltlftted. his esemooree t IsoLthese. ef Ws ootteagoal. stare- i ifseT ape .& • AT: (111d,Ii r i I' mu T , f, Pts! 4 4 o :e tile !elereso of - • L ~ - • . . , ~. ... lion • he: the j Li t i th .. 1 "...."k" V i ta i i oat drown, several itessaers rase, --r .".."."--r--- • —1 1 l CAIAIOrng , eIK elher Gentle- . Innrit. c .gung • zee gase .wes.•_to _ A _ . _, • . i . I. hut .kith . ' ; Mi. CANNlNUitidg t n tiott. being . Called upon in 6, that that the .:#jithr hh' hid lidos. lay the :Right Honourable is autither:— , oaf •Loatned GewtienstisilW . ' r iii. Scott), and re. 'eta moiseive •beked by him for .hathie . otietiiined 'lO long. Mint, . 4 b B gentlemen lie thought 'brit. It _Might 4014 'necessary - to slake - nag _it swill* an explanation , to the *owe on that point.- He nit a,opeciA . c ,shoold have thoughttbit he rithir eised an ap o l og y . . I Ceisninitteit 'hi. the House for now spiefthig; before he had heard 7 111 I 4... 'llo.littit the Oentiments of men/ Othet . Gentlemen; - iiho*ere och good 1"= • probably intlibed .to slosh, than for detiiiing so of the people long ? to glro4shi opinion. On many other great Ties- the Illealeri• t4PB* Oilkh were agitating' that Tipple; it *as often S. . ibisilieved ,ctoubtild on witty itifte "the ISarthen of the proof . . . of the people rested; 'butwim'ilifs2 - proirist . occasion, he thought .‘,,' LA% 4 s Cleima,o)id there foisktfle*,adth doubt." The berthed of proof , 1 _ to ae, this moat iihiOdy 4041 , . on 'dim e who m eant to contend, .- v. 1t , 144 been thaithe'Hokso SWIM not 'redeem the pledge which . tqued to, for they •had' (teen .hili:titiwiL.,.-- `lnn ease of such giest in,. note•brooght isertinceorhstre Stood' troimittea.to the Catholics, 1 0 4 0 4 0 ..,,thgt f.ot tilli,t 6 VlVlT,contillptitin and to the Protestants . I able, 7E1111161.11 FV.SeCnfr i ler, 11111:Weal Wet'isayi thatit mil impossible • If• ibonid be . * thinctiesons . Watt lentils occurred to Thew the i' , 'Table tit fret , Hottselhat thirteen. they were about to adapt was rob and State: . Iptely . s td Se irhjadtdili . *it uni't's nch: iiierisiii were • C It read, that he pindisoed, the, presuMpt;piti Must tos l llift tkp tear* - . -, le CitkolkOs, • ihich th!! Re* lial hitt rekt t*selted - op S* A reit ' t it n priedplee, 0 siejorityi *i's the proper one to permit. ,I ,lldeg - - , • . , • .. , . • ' R 1 1, '