The Statesman. — London, England, 1822-02-08 00:00:00

.. „ (YA Cito o S 4 - 4)(1 - . L" tj ".. . .'‘‘' • • e --•-) taveA•i wt. 4 - V -z~ L~ 1 4 7 Ink CIF.'!- . IFsmoJp-:: ...... :1 _.~ LONDON, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY - 8, 18p. Ninnies 6289. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.—Tanunmv. Ws day their Lordships met at Isalf-put three v'eleck• The Doke of Dveatuaaar took tie oaths and his amt es his cleweda to the Dukedom. tent CAWOOIII took the oaths aid kis seat, on 141 - ViltaiN6 to the title. /TATE Of lIILAND. ibe Earl sY LIVERPOOL rose, to give notice Opo l e should, tomorrow, more that the standing wins Nes. 26 aid 145 be suspended. The Lien of LANSDOWNE, perceiving that the iw aies, of which the Noble Earl bad given notice eaatmpMed some farther increase of the powers vest ., is the Government of lrelead, wished to call their Lerdships' swaths to there/Ors which had bees laid w as sheen the subject. Ile situderellsod frotdothe N e ar e Sal, that the growl spat which idditio mire w as sailed for, was tended di • repass ties mode to his Majesty's Ministers by doe Govern mos et Wood, as to the innisieney of site nim bi ion la the perms on their Lordships' able. he speed a such represestatles made, and he would say. that the sootiest aldose ought to be adduced is ,spper s lof the oecessity of the case before any new : meassres were adopted. He would, therefore. ask the Usk Earl to peens, say desmstsh be might have received from doubt& Goveresselle. which iodised Ms to call for as Scream of the saistisg laws in that reastry. With the excepts. Bono solitary instance, the lasansetiest Act was net eves recognised in the slscessets is question. *or was there any opinion ex pressed by Ss Lord Lientenst ea the subject. He whited for the best Mama before he agreed to so *lest se set as the aspeasies of their Standing Orders, aid this for the ist,educs .1 violist Into Sive measeres.—(Hat, hear.) The Earl of LITHE/POOL said, that if aee increase of power to the Irish Ouverseseet should be approved el by the other brooch .f the Legislature, he doubted set but their lordships would see sedlicient time to *mimes is the rosamme. It Could sot be expected, aertedieg le the soul nano, that the Go- Teramest el Ireland sheet{ etas the precise groans apes whisk they formed their opinion, as to the ne cessity of Sens.. It was clear that attain facts might be caseated with the am...twin made by the Lord iAesoesent of !reload to his Majesty's elfffflatftt, which It would am be ceseistiest to lay Wore Parliamest. He bad so wish to prom the sea mre for asy kirk el time Uread the secessity of the cironsetasseos wake which it °agitated. The vial* Inas. weslisomenaler the discessios of Far hat& Scar *net but k wee no obviously neer Ir ~ lM kiVelsii i ft li Ate. bear ; ri ne was as bathe possible &sty astern as toriheirliheilen. Lord RLIANIIOIOUGH thought it pry mange that, Welk addition) pewees were sailed foe, sot a wad woo said se to the muse of the evil. This was Net &agog fairly with those Noble Lords who, like Waif, had as immediate conettin with !related jsd who, therefore. soled sot law whether it might fie expedient to adept harsh err °oscillatory measures. *An alei Orange Ibex the yeomanry had sot boss ImlkLaski the South of hiked, where the outrages Wain place, bat is the North, which was repro. lend Is be as peaceable. Lord ROLLAND' deprecated the awns which had iren pursued by the Noble Earl opposite. The Noble Earl said it was act usual, is such cases, to lay the gonads of the opision befit, Parliaments ; bet be (Lied Honied) would say that the grinds ought to be clear and masifest. From the outrages that had been committed is Indeed, there was, unhappily, too *orb reams to belle,* that addition) force was pe nury; bit, judging from the papers oa their Lord. ships' table, he saw no grounds for giving any addi tion! power. to the Executive. He, for on, mold softer agree to • measure amnesia' the character even of military law, thee to the measure which he under mood it was the Noble Earl's lineation to propose. He heisted that all the explanatory docueseste that could for f e °dead ought to be laid epos the table, before toy agreed to place father powers im the hands of the Irish Government twenty-two years after the Usion.—(Rear, hear.) Lord KING spoke briefly to the saws effect. He em Id sot coa ce i re why the documents on which the us realest of irelaad formed their opinion should isot be laid before the 1100110. Lord ELLENBOROUGH could set but think it "Solar that notice should be give. of the of Ate Stasdiag Orders, when their Lordships as yes so Parliamentary krowlege of any Bill to be iet trodeced as the immedis to consequence. After a few other observations ea the past of order between the Lolls COAX CJILLOZ, the Earl of beta. oat, and Lord Hou.s.ro, their Lordships were or dered to be summoned for to - mortolre--AdjOIMISIL HOUSE OP COMMONS.—Tutrasatv. The SPEAKER tookthe Chair at tea minutes to liar o'clock. Mr. W. DUNDAS presented a Petition from the Magistrates of Edinburgh. complaining of the lax state of the police of that city. ABERCRONRY presented a similar petition from the Beam, Commis, loners of the Police of Edin- burgh. Both referred to a Committee. Sir W. CURTIS pee sodal. that on Thursday ant he would as,, for a Committee to inquire lato the state of Load°. bridge. Serves! mew Weathers took the oaths. Mr. Alderman WOOD moved, titst as Address be Pretested to the Kier, praying that the evidesee takes 64 ° ,0 the Commieshmers. together with their Report apes the state of lkitester gaol, be MU before the l l Heger. Mr. Moms. WOOD no lo a similar notion for the predicates a fin Report of the Magistrates of %mem alt Oa Was sabjaMm.-Ordered. " The Cause for which HAMPDEN fell in the Field, aed SkDdlar died Mr. DAWSON moved for an Address to his Ma jesty praying him to order the last Report of the Vac cine Board to be laid before the Honse.—Ordered. Mr. LENNARD gave notice, that he would oa the 22d instant move an Address to the King, pray* him to recommend to this Hoes* a revision of. and reduction is the several branches of the Civil List.— Me &eatid!" foreign and domestic, but the House having negatived every proposition founded ottt documents, and continued their support to Minis it was the de- 1 tided °pinto@ of the petition petitioners that they could expect no relief from a House so corrupt and defective as that was proved to be without a re form, the want of which was the true ruse of all the evils which e#ptessed the country. If any thing were wand*, to pries the correctness of these ideas, it would be found In the statement of the Hos. Member for Kerner a former evening. That Hos. Gentleman had not scrupled to tell them that no relief could be' expected headrests such measures as Mini might think fit to propose. Here was a statement to offer to the House of Commons. He, however, ought not to wonder at such language coming front one who held a situation and received such emoluments as be bad enjoyed seder the present Government. He then koregberp thin petition. Sir L SMATCHBULL, after the persoual alletions made to Mm, would ask any Member of that House, whether he should not be guilty of a dereliction of bis duty if be abstained from trespassing on their time for a few moments. He wished, in the first place, to explaio wit* be had said, and what he thought bad been considerably misrepresented, and to deny what he bad been charged with by the Honourable Gentle man, from cams or motives which were best known to that Hasourable Gentleman himself. To the charges respecting his public situation he would give a roorlasive answer. Had be merited the reflection thrown on him, tie county he bad the honour to re present, would never have returned him to Parliament. He hoped the House would pardon him if he spoke with some warmth on this subject. If he had said any thing that could warrant the inference which had been drawn from what had fallen from bim on a for mer night, be should be unworthy to hold she situa tion be filled. He had not said, that oo beneficial measure could be proposed but on one side of the House. What he bad said with regard to a particular question was this, that it might be for the best inter ests of the country, that the measures to be propounded' by Goverment should be first brought better/41st House, and that if these should sot be found to supply the desired remedy, then would be the time for the °estimate opposite to offer any other .ikopositioo, which they 'night think It would be for the good Alf the cowry to adopt. He agreed with the Hee. Member who had preseotid the Petition, as so Oaten tent of she distress felt In the agricultural districts, and would ~{ad l~ support any measure that promised to sup* est relict Bet feeling as be did, and sot king pommel of the experience of the Hen. Goodannathite mold soy, that to bim it appeared no. wise to mix up Ober gentian with what esaceried tialsumildoloportant subject, and taller such a course wooed pedyllajere tie nab ditty whited to verve. Ile csr= =on h xKs w ad hieh herra said of a b e i lo i n n . Gestfumon et this question. If be would consent to wait for a short time, till Ministers bad brought for-1 ward the measures which they bad to propose, the '1 lion. Gentleman would find him prepared to do his duty. by those who had done him the honour to send hi" fa. their. representative,- : _ BRQUOHAM said, ne the Honourable Member alluded to •certain commend which be, in the dis charge of his duty, had made on what had fallen from him (Sir E. Knatchball) in the discharge of hie, be must claim to be allowed to go hack to that debate. He bad listened to the former explanation which be had given, and to his sew explanation (which was perfectly consistent with its predecessor), and having dons so he must 'confess that he was un able to discover any the slightest incorrectness in what he had described him to have said at first, and he would venture to add, that there was so man who had beard the Hon. Baronet, and who bad heard bill (Mr. Brougham) who would not say that he bad rightly understood and accurately represented what the Hon. Baronet bad stated on a former occasion. Mr. WODRHOUSR supported the prayer of the petition. It laid great stress on the reductions which eight to be made i■ every part of the public expendi ture. This be c.aceived was properly done. He stood is a very &Beate situation, having voted against the proposed redaction of the military last year. He would, however, wish to see reductions in the civil &pensions awl that immediately. As Ministers bad 'summed it to be their intention to make considerable redaction, he thought some communication ought to be made ea this subject to the Hoes*. To repeal the welt duty might be a relief to counties where a great deal of barley may be grown, but it would not ma wildly benefit others. Having briefly touched on the description of relief wanted, be noticed the conclud ing prayer of the Petition for Reform. He did not sniciently well auderstand what Reform was wanted to approve of this part of the Polities. and eonld wish other subjects kept distinct from that which so impe riously denuded immediate relief. Mr. LOCKHART hoped to see both Whigs and Tories unite to relieve the landed interest. Economy and retrenchment, be was of opinion ought to be re sorted to, and carried so far as to restore the equili brium which bad been lost by the decline in the price of agricultural produce. In addition to the other dif ficoltks with which they had to contend, the landed invent bad to sestain then becessarily thrown upon them from a diuminutiou of the currency. They were in the *itemise of the unfortunate Israelites, when the Roptian task-masters required them to make bricks without straw. or like the same people at a subsequent ' period of their history, they might complain that the little finger of their pretest riders had become thicker than the loin of their former Government had been. He did sot impute to Ministers that callous hearted sees which the Hes. Gentlesnoe had ascribed to them. He believed them taxless to remedy the evil. bat he found their judgment was assessed. If public credit won to be supported, it should be by relining the loaded latotow, for log dodos this they would destroy the ha has which doe mum of paying the public osoillor &sold Sow. lot beam* airs woo some 1.. I .. -- (Hear, bear.) Upon the motion of Mr. Brogden, the several Ses sional Orders for the regulation of the basic's!, of the House were agreed to. POITATI avaixEss. Upon the question, " That after the 22d of Febru ary, this House will not receive any private petition," Mr HUAI E observed that it appeared to him the title limited by this order for receiving petitions was annsaally and inconveniently short. This order was made at a time that Parliament was used to meet if November or Dee., and wee sot adapted to the pre sent time, when Parliament assembled at a much later • 'I: SPEAKER explained that the time was gel UUUUUUUU limited. 'The practise had always boa ilb limit thq, time for receiving private petitions to heir teen days- after the meeting of Parlianaspt , Is Iltle case, a particular date bad bees Exed, wag 111. der to remove all ambiguity. that the 'One might be satisfied with regard to the. last day he presewieg pe titioes. This was a standing ordered the House, *bleb the Hotta was certainly at liberty to rescind when it .hosglit proper, bet whilst it was an repealed, he (Ur. Speaker) bad thought it his duty to regulate himself , by it.—(Hear.) Mr. LOCKHART said it was of importunes shit the time for receiving private petitions should net be too limited, for this reason, that as all inelosures would be regulated in a great measure by the fate et the agri cultural question in this House, it was naresponable to bind diem to a given time for bringing their petitions bore, until they bad first ascertained whether they re solved any encouragement to improvement by the steps which this Haase would eventually take. The SPEAKER said he bad so hesitation in saying that this order was rather a relief to the petitioners than otherwise. It saved expense to the parties to is, a day, but though the standing order forbade the re seirieg of private petitions after a corsair' day. yet every Hon. Member knew that when a representation was made of unavoidable delay having oteerred l the House was constantly in the habit of receiving them after the time limited by this order. Tbo order was then agreed to. It was also ordered that no private Bill was to be read a first time after the 19th of March ant. AGRICiIt.TURAL DIIII:RESS. Mr. COKE sold, ho held Is his., haled a widen from the Owners and Oempiors of load Is the am 'lledrisittaireMmly of Norfolk, arbor* Agriosimrre was is a dosrieitise moditlos--where it WO 's•se espeisse—isd Whets er" - iir - e --- produced from poor land ►y good management as/ good husbandry, ►han any other county be over saw. It was with sorrow he was now called upon to say. that the state of Agriculture in Noel's lk at this day was in a heart•breakieg condition, and to so one 414 its lamentable state speak with more force than biassolt who had spent his life whilst at home in endeavouring to better it, and the last forty years that be was is Parliament in trying to promote its best interests.--- (Hear.)--The Requisition sent to the Sherif to call the Meeting, from which that petition came. bed bee* most numerously signed by the Yeomanry of the County, then whom a more respectable body did not exist ; and it was remarkable that those who favoured it, three out of five bad formerly been the supporters of Government. They had seen their error, and thus coming forward bad set a noble example to other Counties, which he hoped would be universally fol. lowed. If both sides were not unanimous in pressing on the Government those measures which bad now be. come necessary, the evil complained of could not be removed.—The Petition prayed for Economy and Re (rename:lt, and for a Redaction of the Daties on Salt. Malt, and other commodities, by which. and various saving. they had been led to hope that an annual re• diction of the public etpeadittre might be made to the amount of 5,000,0001. This had been t►eir hope. but bow surprised mast the Petitioners have been in common with the whole country to bear the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer on a former night. la which be declared it to be his opinion that no diminu tion of taxation could take place. This was the state ment that the Minister bad thought it right to make in his place. This was the language held at a time . like this, by a callous and bard hearted G meat. Me bad not felt himself justified in holding out to the Petitioners any hope of relief from that House. It was not to be expected from a body like that, a body that was as corrupt as it was profligate.— (Loud cries of " Order.") The SPEAKER remarked. the Hon. Gentleman was out of order. 'r. COKE said, he would not transgress the rules of the House. He would not, since it was thought dis orderly in him to do so, say the House was profligate and corrupt, but it was well known to be so.—(Goad cries of " Order, Order," " Chair. Chair.") The SPEAKER said that the expressions used called upon bins, however reluctantly, to interfere.— He would be the last as to interpose ; but the His. Member's own reflection would coavisce him, that the line of expression which be used towards this House, was such u be mut be indisposed to persevere la.— (Hear. bear.) Mr. COKE resumed. He did net wish to °lead, but he could ant help speaking warmly, as he felt warmly oa this subject, and felt that from a House constituted as that was, it was in rain to hope for re lief. He would sot sew avail himself of the language of the petition, which was stronger than any that be could use. The petition prayed for etsanomy, retsmseb meat, and a redaction of tazadoa. It set forth slut i Mr. Hume bad , proved in the last Session of Parlia ment, from nada' docameste.that great savings might be made is every branch of the public emit% MA Y ----- _ . F=ll , o- -4 -teA, 4,416 - ,:+%•;•;. PRICE 9 FITEN PENCE. provemeat in the revenue, Ministers supposed all to be going on well. In the end, they would find them selves deceived, and the evil concealed for a time, would develop. itself on a sudden in wide spreading calamity and Me. Hs could state, that in the West of England and in the midland counties, scarcely any rent could at present be collected. When the wages of la bour were so reduced that a labouring man was obliged to maintain his wife and two children on 7 shillings per week—when in some instances but sic, and in some bat four shillings per week could the obtained for labour, where fourteen or fifteen had formerly been paid—such a state of things must produce erects that would endanger public credit. There bad been als intention on the part of Government to reHeve their.. cultural distress, by a loan of 5,000,000/ Thit =MAIM could not diminish the evil. They were not aware hew -mach property bad been confiscated, ...sad they forgot the 'haulm of many of the parties. How wee lush a meagre- * be made appitedble to teases, foe life—tenants in tail—tenants for a long term—and others which be enumerated; and whicls he contended could receive as relief from a measure like that which' had been suggested. The measures that would died-. .kb the evil were first of all eeemeay and retrench ment, carried on so as to restore the lostequilibrium of property. Neat it would be necessary to guard against foreign importations. He did not wish the price of grain to be raised ; but it was nec yto look my closely to the eosditions on which foreign torn was allowed to be imported, for nothing could be mere absurd than to suffer the °peeing of the pert. (or* weeks to glut the market for the next three years./ He hoped those things would be remembered by 1111.% Meters, and that they would foresee that if the agrii • cultural interest and the fire or six millions of persoole depending upon it were not perfectly protected, the. public credit would be in danger, as would even th4l , laws sad coostitution of the country if the lest eitolk,. Librium were not restored. itts, Mr. LUSIIINUTON felt satisfied that lbw epithet!, ; -','`, callous," as applied to his Right Hon. Er lend thit ' ..t ~.^... Chancellor if the Exchequer, by an Hun. bileMber op- ''. ',tithe, was lased inadierteatly, and not advisedly. His Ritht '6.. Friend was not to be understood as errs.: leg tg ) a p ::2 any redaction whatever—{Hear heir, ftemi j)se tios)—hut only against redaction carried ts. 'sae y extent as to pet the public credit into jeeps,* bear.) — H is object was to give relief, sad rieZdtliimmee was as *Am objects to whom U iiii•ei lie exfssded. ' NIT. HUME thOught the' Honourable Heathens could out have been in the Mew when the debate to which he alluded took plow, our yet have read hit amendment. His amessisisot called for n act that could cadaver patine reedit. He bedevilled leeway dattiou of eitgesses from the highest to ski 10wee1t..—.... branch of the public service, that taxation might his ,reduced in, proportion. Wbo could understand die Obsseollese of the Exchequer but as -essaaing tide--. "taxation meet sot be diminished—if you &taiga Is. you increase the distress of the country." He was happy to end, from the tone of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Lusbington), that eight and forty hours bad not elapsed since that speech was made without teaching the Go vernment that whatever they intended, taxation most be diminished. He was happy to mark this change in their carriage, and angered well from the explana tion which had just been offered by the Honourable Geatleman. • ''', The Petition was then read by the Clerk, and or dered to be printed. MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS. ' A Message from the Lords being anaounced, the Messengers were called in, and communicated their Lordship.' request, that they might be furnished frith a copy of the Appendix to the Report of the Agricul tural Committee.—Ordered. ADDRESS TO HIS MAJESTY. •• Mr. R. CLIVE brought up a Report of the Addles, voted to his Majesty on Tuesday night last, which-be ing read, Mr. CURWEN raid he wished that the subject of that Address were well considered and rediscossed be fore it was sanctioned by the House. He did not believe that the framers of the Speech, or of the Address were sufficiently in possession of the miserable state of the country. Under the circumstances of the country, it was but reasonable to hope the Crown would be ad vised to share in the public feeling and to set an exam ple.—(Hear, besr.)—Things bad now come to a level, to w►ich people must descend at last, and nothing could be more vain than the expectation of high prices. If we asked for high prices under existing circumstances, we should only destroy the mannfae tures of the country. We seek not to injure any class —we only seek the reduction of taxation.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—Tbat was the relief which was sooett for, and which ought to be granted. The Mature of advancing five millions by way of loan, on secu rity, was quite ineffectual. If meo had security to give, they need not want your loan, for they coubt easily borrow. But would the U ment lend with out security?—He did not expect such a measure would be the result, after the last Session, and the period while Parliament was prorouged, was spent in deliberation. He agreed that public credit should be preserved, if possible; bat could the preseat state of the revenue be maintained? He on. tended it could not. They should at last come to the fundholders. They should impose an equal tax on the fended and landed property, and he main. mined that there was no other way to save the country from impending ruin. He would wish this matter to be discussed without party feeling. Though he was a friend to Parliamentary Reform yet he wished this matter to be discussed iodepeodently. If a Carom system of taxatioa were resorted to, that would be one material step towards the Reform of that House.— Witbost some alteration in the system of taxatioo, the country would be reduced to absolute misery. Let the state of the sister kingdom be looked to. There was no appearance of any political or party feeling is the dieted/ammo which existed in that onforeawste country. The disorders arose from the sufferings of t i7G ~: _ _:ic .` . IN