The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-06-17 00:00:00

74i ~~, Lj ~~.: h ear n The represen , but it would he useless to mottle :it taiew . ficacious • riot , mas's nature.—[llcar, s for the purpose of convincing the country , by liktreas eere such as must move the hardest hearts. t — a There was wie circup starer to o hick he (wild not that its trade was in a stateof unexempled protiperity. - but allude, ca ereseot serrei- because it was fre. I There, however, was so great a falling off in our qtr trade- 6o great a defalcation, that it had baffled all eely asked, oith an air mine. ' whether that scarcity too was 10 be attributed to ten , ()tilers in M. levities skill td hide ehe feet ; thei had been tle Cele; ;S l eet a sew cite dem al , se from iinavol , ?:thic 1 sired to stair for the Cistom-housc returns, as if the catovs. such . s liervest, wole;t ne human fa* facts o begeteloped would overwhelm them, and sig.. bolt' A. to the distress and scarcity : prove, bnd tha possibility of dispute, that our of 180 u, the wit netzses a n,w ;led w i one uny ry ingeherade swies4otsehlitiog. Bet after all this tisreessionisoge voice, ti: o their situation tli was ant to be cm- the truth had come out ,by some neaps or other. Jsky .J pared a ith their preseet condition. At that time those Custom - hou s e returns--those long expected ever! could be °omitted, but how different was their . and much talked of returns, it appeared that in one' tittle:ie., at the present ;lenient ! A mucity, of ) sear there was a deficit of 83 mil l ions, and in an s 'wages occasioned n scarcity of food, for the searcity , other year to the amount of 88 millions, including • of the t:ertner cceasioned the sources of the latter to exports to and imports from every part of the world. be in some measure closed. The consequences of ; Thus was the testimony 'of those very returns in fa our supplies of load from America being interrupted, your of those who agreed with him in his opinion of wa, 'extremely detrimental to us ; for the continua- trade. What now became of the argument, that if tion et' - .a not only be,ietited this island, but ma- we lost one place we gained another ; that if we lost terially affected our army in tee Pehinsnla. The he f rale of America we obtained that of lieligo .Englise army there was almost, if not entirely, sup- , land? What now became of the balance of trade, • plied from A -erica ; and the effect of an interrup- which it had been said was in no way affected by the tion was recently exemplified ; for one dry's em- i interruption of our commerce m ith America ? Those hargo not only raised the price very considerably, arguments were put to flight by the very returns of but immediately occasioned 6000 quarters of wheat, these who made theme After tracing further deficits, inteeded for home consumption, to be put in requi- the lion. Member dismissed the Custom-house re sition for the -Peninsula. Thus, he would contend, lures, expre s sing his determination to close Mr. Ir. they had arrived at this point, that our Ministers Ying's book, because it proved nothing ; but if they must abandon the war in Spain if they would not would contend that it proved something, its support promote a reconciliation with Americaa war in must be in favour of his (Mr. ll.'s) case. Suchsthen which, according to the authors of the Orders in was the state of trade, and if they wanted to prate Council, policy was the " one thing needful"—a more, they must go beyond the four quarters of the war which afforded to England the last remaining globe to ebtain the additional evidence. it was true hope of loweringand humbling the power of France! that tl:ey had the trade of lieligolaud and South Such was the dilemma in which they were placed ! Amelica, to compensate them for the loss of With regard to the teorier of the etidence taken at' that to the United States. As to the South the Bar, trot one single attempt had been , made (save American trade, he world turn the attention of one)—Ufeur n—to contradict the statement of the the House to it. Witnesses had been examined great existing distress emongst the manufacturers; as to its value; and by one general toes-' and the attempt made in that, in one instance, was tion they had been asked, whether they had tried 1 , in the person, and by the evidence cf an Hon. Mem- the market of .South Americe ? The invariable an ber (Mr. Marryatt). The evidence, however, given saver was, and it was given with an expressive good by that Member, was of such a nature, that even humour, 44 No ; we - know the South Americau - his Mends had agreed to have a great portion of it market too well !" ,They who had tried it re expunged from the minutes. Ile (Mr. Marryatt) plied, 44 they wish they never had known it, for . had attempted t 6 deny that the distress _was a loss of fifty per cent. had been sustained on an general, and this iu the very teeth of all the average!" . This evidence did not please the Pre& preceding evidence, thus flatly contradicting dent of the Board of Trade, because it did not every withess that had gone before hie. Such being _harmonize with his pleasing and flateerieg expects the nature of the Honourable Member's valuable tes- lions, as was evineed by the shifts to which tie tiniony, he (Mr. 14.) felt it his duty to examine that Right Hon. Gentleman (.Ir. Rose) was put in his Honourable Member, with a view to obtain from him ' examination of those very witnesses—" What !" et his notiore of comforts, if what now existed in the claimed the Right Honourable Gentleman, " a lost ! manufactering districts, were not distress in the ex- ; a loss ! in the South American market too ! oh that treme. But how disgusting a scene opened upon ! cannot be ' • but pray what did you ship ?—But you So eisgusting was it to him, that he did not persist could not have suffered any loss." One Witness re- . in the sxamination, but complies' with the request of plied, that he had shipped hardware, " Oh !" said the friends of the lion. Witness, and abandoned his ' the President of the Board of Trade, " how could enquiries of an individual who contradicted, insult- you think of shipping hardware ! How could you ingly contradicted, all the witnesses that had been think of sending such a cargo to South America ? examined at their Bar. What did the Honourable' why, you might be sure _of a loss!" This practical Witness say Why, that the manufacturers had , trader told the witness, that he had attended to the now more than thes had a right to—that oatmeal and , regulations of the Board of Trade—pt laugh]--he: eter were sufficient for diem! Ile (Mu. M.) ven. would not have sent such a egrgo, as much as to turetl *I tell the Committee in his evidence, that if say to him, that he might have sent goods on which the journeymen manufacturers were in the rireipt of he would not have lost more than 20 per emit. instead full wages, they would receive " three times" more : of 50 per cent.—[Heur, hear !] —Llut the South than tee" ought to have; for if they could obtain American trade did not go hand in hand with regu better food than oatmeal and water, to use the Hon. ! lades, nor did the trade via Canada ; as soots as Witness's Lineage, 64 they would become pam- this country by.its conduct compelled the people of pered, and would tend to unhinge the frame of so. 1 North America to side with its Government, an end ciety !" [Moir, hear !] But that Honourable s was put to the smuggling, by which this trade was Centlemati had some " loyalty" about hint, for he carried on. When the North Americans were not commenced his evidence by a furious attack upon : concerned, the outlet was closed to ns. " But," Jacobinism, center: that there was no real dis- ! said the Honourable Gentleman, "we ask of Go tress—that the cry came from Jacobins alone ! I vernment to give us back the American trade ; and Such was the evidence of the lion. Member, of an it is for them to shew how the valuable trade to individual who, he was a' 'timed to eav, had risen I Malta and to South America will be injured by this to the greatest affluence, very:possibly fr'em that class I addition. It is for them to shew, if we obtain this ad which he was now so fearful of becoming 44 pam. ! dition, how it can injure the round-about trade to pered."—Such was the testimony of the only indi- j Heligoland, Rio Janeiro, and other places : will not 'ideal who had been called to contradict the evidence the trade to those places still be equally sure that had been wrung from the distresses of more ! and profitable ?—Can the restoration of that market than a hundred most respectable witnesses! Of its affect those on which the President of the Board of value all would form a just opinion ;he feared not s Trade sets so much value ! But are they not, in fact, its weight as affecting the general question. In the next ! of trifling value compared with such a market as that place, came a meagre memorandum from the Custom- of North America ?" The lion. and Learned Gen house, ushered iu under the auspices of Mr. Irviag; Boman then contended, that the value of the newly' but lie would contend, that those documents could' discovered markets were nothing when compared not interfere with the question before thellouse if they i with that of North America. That to South Ame.l possessed • ally intrinsic value for veracity. The I rice was not worth half a million, and we might main question for the House to determine was, whe- I have all those markets, with that of North America. Cher the happiness and comforts of the manufacturing I As to the home market, it had always been found -class of the community had increased or diminished? ! that it was depressed in exact proportion as .the fo- Such being the question, and after the evidence which reign had been choked up. This faet was proved by lead been given at the Bar, to pretend to prove to the state of the Sheffield trade. As to the relief Lim by an array of Custom-house figures, that the given to the home trade, so far as it appeared from trade of the country was in a state of prosperity, I the Ordnance accounts, it was not only uncertain, wound he stark nonsense. They saw the distress— ! but, in his estimation, unwholesome. The same re tie) starving condition of the manufacturers stared mark applied to the relief given to the Birmingham Mem in the face- the calamitous and ancontradicted trade. As to the relief afforded the clothing districts details had been brought to their Bar. It was too Iby Government on account of the Army, it also was late to go to the Custom-house, for Mr. Irving's I uncertain and net wholesome on genteel principles. vague a cement, to prove that that was no distress The clothiers of Leeds had obtained domestic relief of trade. The time for such a difencv had gone by ; I during one season, from another circumstance, name. such statements were without faith or credit; but by ly, because the ladies wore cloth pelisses iustesul esC , Mr. Irving's own showing, auto w - great felting s silk ones ; hut then, to show the uucertainty of sach off iu our commerce, as he should presently show.— I relief, it was found to be at the expellee of the Spi- Of the exports to the amount of seventeen millions, I taltields weavers, who complaiued of great falling it had nof been stated that from ;eta to no millions j ate in their trade during such season, because .the neither paid any duty nor o :alfordany detwbseks, . ladies to o k to wearing c l o th p e li sses in:teed of those The returns, however, lot-teed a mass of iiitelligenee! mu& of silk ! But, lifter all l , was undeniable at once vague and unsatisfact or y. tie mild Dot hot the( the trade of the country wa s materially affected; observe, that there appeared to be a most amiable i that a great portion of chat remained, had been fellow-feeling between the Custom-deers awl the I turned boo uncertain and unwholesome channels ; ho, Board of T rade ; a spe c ie s o f pes s imism which I however, might be answered, th a t t hi s country h a d itself in producing at:cut:mode t int! accounts to prove , 'untold ed else to support besides its trade and wealth, the prosperity of trade as deseribed by *them Out namely, their maritime rights. Ho was the last man examiee these returns—remark the &At by that welshd moment to give up those rights which they were swelled out almost every one hot , * that were eltsettliill to the support of the dignity of an entry of goods might be made et the Catdatn-' the Clown and the safety amid honour of the country. ' When however Bine maritime rights were ineompe. House to the amouut of 50001. o f ten i u f ue l th e y were not worth 51. The c l er k s said, odl t yaw tibia with hia biseleos and t ra d e , h e th oug ht ( l ei may as well say, 50001. in the smite v, ns your gosair ought to Iw stagiehilell fur the. general benefit. Ile do not pay duty; it is a good round soot, end if Ilia would deity that nos abendosament of them for a time amount of the real value should eeeired 1,1. them ovoll ww teutemmult Ina coece s si au o f th em a ltogether, be no occasion for fresh entries or ottosetivalit" Ns hid bwim 'stmt'' tr y viormso treaties. w e Rog Such were the tricks by which the retorts. were *Hy Ihnl free hallow% tin hot intike free goods, yet in foisted out, and as they were considered a spyolo. of the Itiaily of 0 /1 180 hi hilliand conceded that P I O . " pions frauds, " the merchant, did not feel their in l i sa wel' at 1740 we also give It up; nod in 1775 consciences in any way 'cared by with We #ll , l nod contend fsor It. Mere recant events also thee,. When such was the case, .what rellatweaotold OPm ll4l t o o Prove eeent fact, that we never had be placed on the Custom-house returns? Uptler other 4 0 •Ined e eanette 4 loll of any eon of thoggrrlghte for a viretenstaaail the Custom-howl nostrum Might be of. time es sloludiiiimout et Um Omaha. altagedt S 1. 4 I, i 4 / 1 r I , ' i, I~" ~l IA 4: , v ' i ko , ,Tn\tAN __ • r • 'To abstain from enforcing those rights was not the abandonment of them. So to argue was as mach as I to say, were he to have the right of welkin over his neighbour's close, he must never abstain from ex ercising his right, otherwise he must abandon it al- together. [Bear, hear:] If thiy were tube com pelled to the constant exercise of them, they ttould no longer be rights hut duties. If they were to ab stain from the exercise of them after a certain solemn t•protest; therreigke.be resuntedet erty fotare period: Xhongb.he did not deny the right to blockade even the whole Oontinent of Europe, he did deny our right to do it with limitations, w't'► a view • o f in ..creasing our own trade by underhand means. In considering what sort of commerce it was that had been sacrificed to all these whimsies, he had been dra wit some hat aside by the main point. The American trade had been of thirteen millions value to this country, yet had we sacrificed such an addition as this trade brought to our revenue ! By the proceedings of our Government there had been sacrificed a certain mar ket, not one of uncertainty, like the markets of the President of the Board of Trade. The North Ame rican market was one of thirteen millions value—of certainty, and one for which it would not be dig cult to suit with a proper cargo. It was a market that must of necessity be of increasing value. It might be increased to twenty millions. Here were no bad debts—the returns were sure. It was of sure and increasing value to this country, because the Americans were given to agriculture, anti we ere given to manufactories.. Bat they seemed to have . too , much contempt for the . American people, or rather to bear them some grudge ior certain -events which it would be much better to forget than to re member • or possibly they were not pleased with the unadorned structure of democratic Government in the United States. Yet had we sacrificed thirteen ' millions by cutting oti the trade of North America ; and could the Right Hon. Gentleman find any outlet for a thirteenth, or even a thirtieth, partof trade to • that amount to any part of the Continent, the Presi dent of the Board of Trade would be in the greatest : delight. Downing-street and Duke's-place would , then be in the greatest uproar. Nothing would be . heard but the Justling of Treasury clerks. There would be dispatches, address* and circulars visible in all directions. They woultr hear of speeches hair iag be. made at Lloyd's, by Naval Officers; of addresses to the Right lion. Gentleman from City Baronets, and cargoes of Licences would be returned for the compliment. Then would forgery and per jury flourish in the noon-day sun 'of Court intlu . eace ; then would the licensing system assume new life; then would they hear of valuable slips of the pen worth fifteen thousand pounds, and of other happy inadvertencies; for there was something so peculiarly happy in the constitution of the Right lion. Gentleman's mind, that his very errors and blunders were of the greatest value ! [Hear! and much laughter.] Thus it appeared, that it was unfortt nate in the extreme, to err with the President of the Board of Trade.—[Hear, hear!] —in condemning the present systeT of commercial policy, be could not lnit deeply lament the continuation of that infa tuation and folly which dictated it. It crippled our trade, and promoted the marine of France—an event that this country could not .lesire. He had men ' tioned these facts merely to chew the House that they 1 ! ought to pause ere they would allow themselves to be impelled to measures, the consequences of which might be of so severe a nature. Bet was not the alarm sought to tl„e raised with respect to the manner in which concession would be regarded in America as totally inconsistent with our national spirit ?- 1 hluch . more room was there for dreading that folly which was now in progress to the extietction of our own manufactures. The persons who preached up those idle fears to be entertained from the growing spirit of America, were, by a strange inconsistency, the very persons who built their case on the insignifi cance of any manufacturing competition into which ;.the Americans could enter, while they magnified the danger arising. from French and German industry. France, in the apprehension of those Gentlemen, was effectually to rival us with the assistance of America, and losing sight of so truly formidable an assistant, we must be anxiously occupied in warding ° off the danger arising from laces and cambrics, and the other trumperies of French commerce. But he I was willing to leave it to the House to decide which was most to be dreaded, the principal or the assist ; ant in this apprehended invasion of our commercial interests. For his own •part, he apprehended little from the arts of the enemy, but he must confess he !did apprehend something from his arms ; and if we were to contend with him on the Peninsula, it was obvious that conciliation towards America would much increase our resources for the purpose. lie would call to the recollection of the House the vast sums which had been al ready expended he this contest, and the warm ly anticipeted consequences which were expected to flow from it. It was now the opinion of many, an opi nion, however, in which he did not very sanguinely • concur, that we should now make one grand. and vigorous e4fort to terminate this contest ; but if this opinion were founded in wisdom, it would at least , be allowed that we were 'not acting wisely, or pro moting the success of the plan, by multiplying our enemies, by making it neeessary for us, while we at tacked the French in front, to 9estain the assault of America upon our flank. If we did persist ip a feeling of hostility towards America, while we per severed in the warin the Peninsula, the consequence would be, 'that we should have to supply Canada with troops from Portugal, and Portugal with bread from England.—[fleor, hear, hear !]—But then it would be said, were we, because placed in circum stances of difficulty, to bow down and yield to the Americans ? Unquestionably mot ; he would be the last man to propose any thing like national humi liation ; but when the circumstances in which we were placed were duly considered—when the high character was considered which we had obtained, not merely by valour, but by reiterated victory, why then, he would say, that resting on that character we could afford to conciliate America. Whatever else we might have fkiled 'to attain by the war, it had at least been fruitful in honour, it had en circled us with glory. He would point out conciliation towards America - as the best use we .could make of the lofty advantage we had hence do rived: be would counsel in every different spirit from those persons who unstarialued on; achievemtnits, .1111 who eonsiclered is as a peopl i , , l ! o ulevo . t. i el I to h arts of life, whose fanic was it military upstarts, and who the w imacefid ; a t m p it u y:: s i individual d t i America, i v. rssed i t ul n u r a j e c l wea :s t h l u n ‘ u l a l d u s l th i t ' i h r a r e l ( u l , l 7 e r 41: :tiered to ' • re " 71' gained from our gr[e teas ata v t language of so I , u • world I fn;th the olive branch i:l the Itlh(), d, an in v. thea - e l: i ca d world. talk jeatomay and of America, he could se a s refrain from the stfonget express'ioti of '• .11 navy of which could not -Ilse ..a.f.orrethiLlia:e:':lo';i:a:' I single vessel of that which formed our tion. Jealousy towaids Ain" and bulwarks. Jealousy f whatever be the ambition which imecded h . or the resou;;:es by which she was .11 0 a r e r t , f,; be rendered harmless by the vast distance rs front svas te c u i l i t h And a 10 .stloriuslid vireo a,, deter. c •susartitn., woit:(1 ed iation t b i y on r (norl i f t e ic uis pi;a t l it i o e m w a n c n o k t i tj a u t r i e d d b u n p t i little to winhaaq. the achi.‘vornents of our an. t h had already urged. T o cestors at Ramillies and Blenheim. wev t ve l rei , tit iel a g for the treaty of Utrecht, a treaty which, promoted the infamous Slave Trade, haul had been laded the execrvions of every age which c th ce2. e r e e d. sullhatf!"th(eliigillorerilottola I,l7:o6l(l4CCS;M:ft.lC".orilinolul:dathtda Tatavera, if an honest and open trade could be new . safely substituted for the meet) and :eiteful traffi c i y tI ato v pl v ob • tl i zl i d i e.ce c oier l ra: t iehl t ecade l ti l itm e inadhilon c issttg o phe t tia t al: t e: l )trs • I,:s r t,tri v oidist) lehivavootivattuill,cseil imputed oe g ;:ao t .it c inoul u Ny i r i ti l boat . . 1 . to his i!le o I I k e taunting W.) to t d e ofhrt fears a, i ,, : would treat it with that utter disregard of which at would be worthy. The lion. Member then moved ) that e dPirst:rnecAseicnidtheusgmteallieti stating, a t d h ld e i nr Address b e 1 11. E a fa pt e r tese t i u h r 'i c i stheir:(lfnti House b; csaodßu.Ytrayi enquired, thati into ne s ttrh6l.l. stilt of their enquiry had induced them to believe that it was . chiefly owing to the Orders in Council of 1807 and FO9, that at `, the same time that they assure his Royal Ilizhnes3 of their dire ; that the Maritime Rights of the country should be maiataikrd uni.nsaired, they recommended the revocation of those Order, as 4irious to the country, and an unjust infringement of the right of neutral Powcm" I Mr. Rail!: noticed the precipitancy with which the lion. and Learned Gent. had hurried on the dis. cussion, attd stated that he came to it uapreparod, not having been able to digest the voluminous deuce, although lies had applied himself to it inces. ! santty. The Right Hon. Getit. then proceeded to comment on the speech of the Ron. Gent. on ue evidence, and to give such an answer to the case :rs it appeared to him require. In doing this, the Right lion. Gent. expressed himself so inaudibly, that we could not distinctly hear him, in fact, he was, in certain respects, quite unintelligible. lie observed at the outset, that the Hon. Gent. haul stated the va rious distresses of the labouring poor. To that statement he had subscribe:l—he had uever deuicd it , and, though he had been charged with treating these distresses loosely, yet those who knew him tout, knew that it was repugnant to his feelings so to do. Ile had never heard of or seen the distresses of any individual, but he felt for his situatioa. It wat therefore an act of injustice to his character to pine to him unworthy actions. The lion. Gent. had stated, that those distresses were broughs on be ' the state of commercial objects—that assertion to ' (Mr. R.) had always denied to be founded in fact. fhe Orders in Council were intended as a measure of retaliation against the common enemy, who had declared, that this country should not Le permitted 'to send a ship to the ports of the Continent. The efftiet of them was not such as described. The Hot). Gent. had asserted, that those who contended in fa.; your of the Orders in Council, had not prodared i3ny witnesses to support their necessity, or to show they were not prejudicial to the commerce of the ! country. A prevalent notion he knew had gone abroad upon that subject, and it was natural to sup. I pose that if the labouring manufacturers were totally those so,int whom w t o h n e l yd placedri rise in aconfidence,mtssand d that a t n h d e fart was repeal; the opinion bad taken such, deep root, that it was impossible to convince them to the contrary. Under these circumstances, was it 'singular that no material evidence had been produced ? In truth, it was dangerous for the manufacturers themselves to f c e o e m l e forward n g many a n t t i e d rc t eksatiiiftys,t who h t I n t e 9 c t o h l e tt r r: irsye. wouldlV ithhta!:.iat appeared at the bar, were disinclined to come tor. ward for fear of disobliging the manufacturers wit? whom they were connected, nor did they like to fend their correspondents in America. As to smiled the distresses particularized by the Hon. Gent. there was no evidence of the existence of distress in the West Ititlitig. The conversation respecting the In spector... Genera l -of five Customs was unworthy that Gentleman, and the fact was not as stated; it war LlBtotaerrdlyofuncturusteo.—msN, oro ityhartsottLenounaldrdbnefliTevreadetlhvieteaili(tet authorise a fallacious account to be laid before the ecruse, merely 'for the purpose of swelling the amount of the Exports and Imports. How stood the fact ? Why thuS: a merchant had made an entry or at least his clerk had dot's it for him, of a qui tity of goodsi less in value than they actually we- This error would have subjected him to the total lc, of the goods. and therefore he was desired to amv , his entrv, which he accordingly did. Ip truth, t!:, return of the amount of the exports and imports, formed as fair a criterion of the value of the com merce as any thing could do. The Honourable Gev tletnan was nearly correct as to the exports to Am' rich, when he stated them at about twelve eleven millions; the only question was , whe between therthd they were on an average annu all y bet trade would be purchased too dearly by the suspeve, sion of the Orders in Council ? Ile had talked to n v • shoharitiwh treated r strong ead ierdes tPk"e evidence tevidence dneto manne r t a h t e tele' which t bar; rry , a elP O N( d YN i i l h i r e e : . I %E r c 9 o° ln u s s as a lso isth wasew that catled as ~t ot t h h a e r quence ofd some of the articles sent to S fa o i ti t : d h A pr rn n e te r l ic p a a i l i ty e th epe at r p o a n r e t n o ,. t .: 41d va the world not being such as were in use. One 66. tiemin had sent out stockinis which .thtty • / J.l