The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1808-06-23 00:00:00

;_s_ to mention thatword, in his opinion, be might be wrong, Catholics could not be admitted under the whole charter to the different offices of the Bank of Ireland. But the very reason, be urged, was, that the Legislature had nut extended this right to Catholic proprietors of the Bank, under The whole baiter, because the Charter having al ready been granted before that act of Parliament, it was not consistent for the * ture, nor agree able to Magma C'isarta, that LeS should alter or destroy a Charter which they h already granted. If any man would seriously attend to the pre amble .if this act of 1793, he would find that it was uniionbtedly the intention of Parliummit to do that which we; now reiju,sted by his Noble Friel.). AM when he considered, that at the time of the Union, the C ithulies possessed every right month could appertain to them by this Act of par,•4lne, 7 , ae !oust say it would now be a viola latori *fetich rights, on the part of the Legislature, if ..ey did not adopt a clause of this descriptiou. Ye .th respect to Catholic Ensencipation, he might possibly be inissrolarstood ; it had been said, that his conduct. upon a late occasion, was incon sistent with the opi..ions which he had former !y delivered upou the sithject. But he would defy any .nav to ti.. iiimv bun the stain of iticon sisteury. His conduct now was exactly the same with that he had pursued upon all former occa sious. f lie Catholic Ques ion was one upon which he had aunt made up his mind—it was one con cc riiiiig which he did not possess that information which his Noble Crew's did ; for di the course of his attending the other House, he did not recollect that lie was once present at the discussion of the Catholic claims. With this view of the subject, it was now, and nlways had been, his opinion, that their Mai ns should ire examined into, iii order that he inig.it si r, before be voted one way or the other, how far it might be beneficial that their re quests should be complied with. Ir was on these grounds that he land voted with his Noble Friend that a Committee should be appointed to examine into the prayer of their Pecition.—But had his Noble Friend, or any other Noble Lord, pro posed that these coneessionsshould be granted with ont iuquiry, he should refuse his assent. It might be wrong, at the same time, lie must allow he did entertain a prejudice against the Catholic Religion. Of all the ohm tides he could imagine, he knew of none more injurious to the progress of Christianity than Popery, but it was now uo more ; fortunately it had sunk from its extensive sway over the tlispo inns:nut of maid:Mil. It had been long combated be human elideavour, and what the wisdom and ge- Mus of ages could not effect, was at last brought about, apparently by the interposition of God's Pro vidence. Ile considered the Catholic claims, at this time in (articular, demanding our most earnest regard ; and if it should be found nht grant them these privileges, it would better become us to do so, when we could perform it as an act of generosity. The times might come when these claims would he demanded by the Catholics, and ,we should be obliged to conceal them in the same way as the restitution of stolen goods. This coun try, in his up iniun, was never in so perilous a situa tion ; there might be a calm now, but we would do well to eoasider it might be succeeded by a dread ful storm. If we looked at the conduct of' Bona parte towards Spain, it must raise she horror of every man who had a spark of feeling for his fellow creatures. If we considered ,ilia most atrocious and infemal treatment of the Spaniards, we might think that even the vengeance of Heaven must speedily overtake him. But he was induced to believe that his vicious carver might be permitted to go on, and it would become as, by every means, to riaite and conciliate our fellow suliects at borne, in order that we might be better able to inset the word, and be supplied with every necessary defence. Lord Ilianowty argued at considerable length against the insertion of any clause similar to that proposed by the Noble Benin (Grenville). He pressed upon the courideratiou of that House, that whatever restrictions might still remain unreenoved from the Catholics of' 1.-eland, it was his wish that whenever the laws were administered, the utmost reiteration should be extended to the Catholics, as far as the spirit and ii liberal constructive: of the law would permit. Ile thought this question had better not be urged, particularly alter Parliament had so lenity gives its dissent to the further es tension of their privileges at this time. it would be well that Government should sheer every atten tion to the Catholics, and relax, as far as it was pru dent, everal legal restriction. Hie Lordship gene rally contended against the policy of inserting the proposed clause ; and concluded by observing, that be did not think the present a proper time fur the discussion of the Catholic claims. The Earl of LAUDERDALE spoke in favour of the motion proposed by his Noble Friend. (Lord G renvi Ile) .—I le considered several of the arguments adduced by the Noble Lords on the opposite side, as strong reasons to induce him to approve of this clause being inserted in the present Bill, particularly what had been stated concerning the great share which the Catholics possessed of the commercial wealth of Ireland. Lord HARROWIIT P 'lduined. Earl STANTIOPP: obbuiced, that by a declaration which he held in his hand, it appeared that the Catholics cotapletely renounced all power what ever residing is foreign ecclesiastical pet . ..tins.-- After many other obvervations, he concluded by giving his assent to the motion. The Earl of Ws.mmoatatto spoke et very great length upon the question. The subject had been lately before the House, tort in gratitude the Cathohes ought not to have urged it so very soon afterwards. It appeared to hint very strange, that the Noble Damn (Grenville) while oat of office, had always been bringing forward this question, but the moment he occupied a place in the Admi nistration, he had felt no desire to attend to the claims of the Irish Catholics. Hie conduct, while it bad a tendency to harass, created considerable irritation in the minds of the Catholics, auJ seem- ed to have for its object the sowing of that discord, which he would have the HOU4e to believe it was the object of his motion to prevent. Ili' Lordship went into a variety of arguments, and decidedly oppooad any further extension, at this time, of privileges, towards the Irish Catholics. Lord RFDIVIDA t.r.. ou the same aide, opposed the addition of any pitivileges to those already possessed by the Itomatieuthollcs. From his acquaintance with those people in Irelaud, he wit: fully aware .that the emu:pietiee of making t h w smallest con cessions, was onl) to induce thetn to demand more. His Lordship alluded to a circumstance which tool• place at the table Dia private and respectable in dividual in Ireland, where a Catholic, also of great respectability, wished to impose upon his judg ment idcus contained in a book, from which it ap peared, that this Catholic strenuously ii-fisted upon the Protestant Church supporting that of Rome in Ireland. The Marquisof BUCKINGHAM made a very do quent speech, wherein he observed, that during his stay in Ireland, where he tilled Iris public station with satisfaction to himself; and, iu his private life. never spent a more happy period than lie did in that country; he never had heard of the smallest hint that the Catholics ever entertained the idea of their own church being supported out of our ecclesiastical establishment. The Noble Marquis then alluded to the state of Ireland twenty-six )ears ego, when the treasury had no supply, hut was, in fact, bank rupt ; when a French fleet appeared oft' Cork ; when the army was unprovided ; it was entirely ow ing to the a ealth of the Roman Catholics that that country was Ilia in a posture of defence, and saved from the invasion of an enemy; whereas, lied they been dispt,sed to lie disloyal upon that occasion. and to have made use of that power which they actually possessed, they might have completely . se parated Ireland front the Government of this cootitrv. Lora Geettettee, in reply, observed, that no arguments had loon adduced to do away the powerful facts which he bad stated. When the question of Catholic Emancipation was brought forward in the Irish Parliament, the Catholics were told it could be better discussed in an Imperial Parliament. This wile held out to them to gain their couiseiit to the Union, and they were told now that they must not expect to lie placed in a better situation than at the Vision. Was this the way to conciliate the people of Ireland ? He was aNti nished how the Noble Lord, the Secretory of State, could reconcile such arguments as he had wade use of to himself; or hew it could be expected that the people of Ireland could be reconciled to them. He felt coulident that the majority of the Noble Lords were iia favour of al:owing the Catholic cient., but the% kept back their real sentiments. —He coil-caw(' of them to come forward, and to dismantle themselves of their disguise. as the period was not far otf when they would be obliged to do it. It would be like the emir( mimes asked by America before the contest ; and would any Noble Lord -ay, that at the conclusion of that vented we welds' net have been happy to have acqttiesced in all they had asked from us is the beginning ? This ease was reeeut in the mind of every person, and he wished to warn the House against the same error, and not to with hold their favours until it became too late, as was the case with America. They should not judge of the people of Ireland by the acts of a few, but by the conduct of the mass of the people. The arganaeats of the Noble Lord (Harrowby) might answer for the year 1775, bet would not answer for the present day. All that was proposed to give the Catholics of Ireland was bread by the sweat of their brow, and nothing more. The Noble Secretary said, ( jive them this, and they will require more, and will become wealthy ; that the House could not prevent them from ; but if it did not „.eve them what they now ask, their Lord ships had better take from them what they had al ready conceded. They could not prevent them from acquiring wealth ;—if they were not admitted to the privileges contained in the proposition. the Bank of Ireland was injured. They would not deposit their money where they are deprived of be coming Directors, and have not the direction of their own money. No, they would consolidate a fund where they would have the actual controul. There never was a time more proper to concede to the Catholics than the present, when the entire mass of the Protestants in Ireland were in favour of the concession. His Lordship concluded with observing, that it the {louse rejected this propo sition, they would refuse men of proved loyalty, high integrity, and well known respectability, a controul over their own property. The que,tion was then loudly called for, end the House divided— 'entente 36--Proxies... .ts—Total 63 Nou•runteuts sti--Total tot Majority for the Catholic. claim 3l The 'louse then resolved itself into a Committee On the Bill, and went through the several clauses, obi► h were agreed to. The [louse remitted, and the Chairman brought up the report, which was agreed to. On the motion of Lord Warwurcausst, the Bill was ordered to be read a third time on Friday next, and the Lords to be summoned, The other orders of the clay were then di.rnsed nf, anti the Hottae adinurned at HALF-PAST TWELVE &CLOCK. ROUSE OP COMMONS. The Southern Whale Dot) Bill and the Silk Ditty Mll were rrad a third time and peeved ; as were also the Exche quer Bill. Bill, the Tower Hamlets' Bill, M'hrwall'v Estate Bill, with the Irish Gaol Bill. The Bepri,il Bill wee reed a *mood time, and ordered to be committed to. sworn. The Modena and th-tril Bill WM reported, and ordered to be read a third time to.morrow ; u were alto the Coff“ futon* DOI, and the Collet Etcise The Woollen Persil. Sti.peorion Hill went through • Ceinnuttar, mid was ordered to be nod ■ third time to- MfbollllW Lord Pa ttaratiott brought tip the Fourth Report of the Sugar Diatillatsou Bill.—Ordered to he on t►e Table. Mr. Wurtiurov brunzlst up the Report of the Assessed Taxes Bill, with sunendoneut , , whirl. was read a strand time. Mr. Husgtssom moved a clause to prevent the possibility of penises being surcharged on any article they had origi nally returned in their sebedale. Tho clause Ira:. re-ad a first end second time; as was also oaf nut to extend the Bill to Scotland. The following Bina floes the Lords were read • in titer The Clandestine Nlarrieue Prevention Itill. and the Small Debt Discharge Bill, which were ordered to be read a aerioud time on Mr. W ow brought up the report of the Scotch Judi. cats,. Bill, which was received, with the various amendnieutr made in the Committee, mad the Bill ordered to be read • third time on Friday Ou tbe motion of Doctor La write cr, the House west into • Commitete on the Cinque Port. Bill, when the several ea:wag:eats sere agreed to, aM the repot t ordered to be thee renewed. 'I he report was then brought up, and the Dill ordered Is he evict a third time On Friday neat. Mr. W !airtight up the report on the Bill for enabling the Commissioners for the rerlartioauf the National Debt to pant lift After • few observations from Mr. %.• %%ITV RT, who in trodsced a clause to preveut the accumulation of annuities oa any single life, which the Cu •Xf ri.t.os. of the Etc r.- OMR permitted to pass through the Committee, reserving to himself the power to object to it in any future stage of the bill, should it be attended with any material ineonvenit:uee to the politic service, the several clauses were read and speed to, Ac. Mr. H ssisswou moved, " That the Chief Baron, or in his absence one of the Barons of His Majesty's Court of Exchequer, he added to the number of the COUIMildi1111C111." This WAS agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-inurrow. The Cuusulidstrd Fond Bill was read ti second tine, and sedered to be committed to-morrow. The Westminster Improvement Bill was deferred to Fri day next. The Noose went Mtn a Committee on the Sugar Distillery Bill, the report was brueght up, and ordered to lie received to-morrow. On the motion of Mr. II us% t ssso 'the Spirit Regulation Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The Irish Treasury Bill was reported, read a third time, 'surpassed Tho Welch Coal Bill was read a third time and passed 7 and the Hop Bag Bill was read a seemed time, and ordered to he committed to-morrow. The Mose went into Committee on the Irish Spirits Duty Bill ; the report aas brought up, and ordered to be received to. arm row . Sir SA Mt) rt. Rom t t.t.v gave eutice to the House he should not eroceed farther iu the bill for maklug compensation to aesuittsd prisons, owing to the lateness of the period in which it had been introduced into the House. Sirs Rows t. tx moved " That the report of the Committee on the Private Stealing Prevention Bill, should be received." The amendments made in the Committee were then read and agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time Sewintor.m. COPY-RIGHT. Mr. Vti.r.tens moved the Order of the Day for the committal of the Copy-Right Bill ; when, on the question being put from the Chair, Mr. W. 1V INN e. said, that he had no objection to the Bill being sent into a Committee, under the understandrog t'nat it should be for the purpose of tilling up the blanks, and that further time should be :Monied both to the House and to the parties concerned, to judge how far their interests were con cerned. lie thought the time ought to be extend ed within which the copy-right should Le pre. served to the author. This time he was of opinion ought to be twenty-eight years, and also that no author should he allowed to dispose of his copy right for a period mo-e extended than fourteen years. The feeling and conviction of some of the most respectable booksellers were strongly against it, and lie hail to expect .that a Petition would be, in the course of that evening, presented against it. He therefore put it to the Honourable Mover, ohs-- tiler it was not most advisable to let the Hill stamil °yea until next session ? Mr. VILLIERS replied, that the principle of the Bill was lot new, as the Universities were already entitled to copies Mall books that should he ',ob it:bed, and particulat Iv w: ,en the taterests °relearning were so much served, by affording on oppor tunity to students to profit by those books, from which, under other circumstances, they would he debirred. Copy-rights acre ut present protected to the extent of twenty-eight years, but the etV-ct of that protection was, that in those laborious works which required great mental industry, it was impossible that the author of such works couldi derive onv-half of the benefit, which, by the opera tion of the existing laws, was granted to the authors of lighter and more inconsiderable productions. Mr. Aseacaostete supported the propriety of postponement, in order to give time to the Book idlers of Scotland and of Ireland, whose interests were affected by this Bill; and who, if the Bill was now persisted iii, had it not in their power to state to that House their objections. The House then resolved itself into a Commit-. tee, the blanks were filled up, and a clause in troduced to extend the proposed measure to• Oriental works. After which the House resumed,' and the report was immediately received. The ATTUILNF.Y.GENRRAL then proposed, that the Bill lie recommitted, and an instruction Le given to the CoMmittee to divide the Bill, in order that the part which gave protection to the author, might be now poised, and the other part should Le reserved for future consideration ; although he could not allow the great wei g ht of the objec tion made against giving the public libraries a certain number of copies. This grant was no more than what was authorised by the 9th of Anne, in return for the benefit authors derived by the protection which they received by the seine Act. Mr. W. WYNNR repeated his objections to the Bill, and concluded by moving, "That the fur ther consideration of the Report be postponed un til that day three months." Lord HENRY PETTY agreed in the proposition of the Attorney-General. He considered taking the life of the author as the criterion for the dura tion of the copy-right, a most fallacious one, and deserving of the most serious consideration ; he therefore felt the propriety of separating the two objects of the Bill, and reserving the eonsidera bon of the most delicate part until next Session. Sir SAMUEL HOMILLT thought that part or the Bill which was imperative on the authors to give certain copies to the public libraries, the most exceptionable pert of the Bill, inasmuch as it operated as a tax upon individuals, to defray that expense which ought to he paid by the public.— There were cases where the authors were not solicitous for copy-right, and he therefore conceiv ed, if this measure was to proceed, that an option might to he allowed them to disclaim it, and to exonerate themselves from any enactment enjoin ing the delivery of copies to the public libraries. he SoLiceron-fiusie;nst, argued in favour of the Bill, and of the propriety of passing both parts of it, without any separatiou of its objects. Mr. STEPHEN considered it impossible to se parate the Bill, at the rime time that the Home arteoded to the copy-right interest of the author. He, however, thought, that the author reaped a very great advantage by having his work entered in the libraries of the Universities. It operated • to exercise its character, and give it a publicity which it might not enjoy without it. It was decided by the- opinion of the Judges, that at Common 1.A..1 authors had as an ualimited a eight to literary pro perty as any other persons in the estuary had to any other deseriptiou of property. Mr. VILLIERS with reluctance agreed to the se. paration of the objects of the reseal Bill. At the same time he gave notice. that he iruti early in the next Seaxion, mote for le,tve to bri in a Bill to an effect aitoilar to that wiocii now to lie divided. The Bill Will then recommitted, and as instrur tion given to separate tht. oljects of the bill. Mr. 1V m. Soul' protested against the further progress of the Bill. He enumerated the variuL i objections against it M' most perspicuou. and dwelt with peculiar stress upon the inap.o. priety of pressing the measure, at so short • notire. on the respectable class of persons whose interests were se materially affected by the proposed Bill. A short discussion then took place in the Coro. mittee, and strangers were about to w i t l e d ra , , when Mr. %Vie. Saturtt declined to press the sub. ject to a division. The ArroaNEY-Gstnam. then deaurrtl, upou consideration, that he was induced to change his view of the subject, and thought it better that the Bill should proceed without separation, because it was most desirable that the burden imposed slwuld go band in hand with the enactment from shalt the benefit was derived. He, therefore, roped, that the amendment of his Hon. and L. allied Friend (Sir S.. Romilly) would liberate the till from the only strong abjection. Mr. Moans. did not conceive that the booksellers were at all affected by the Bill. If there wee any person agrieved, it was the author, and he had also a compensatory benefit by the snipe measure. The Howse resumed, for the purpose of receivisi a *fet us. from the Lards, to the following ding—. Than their Lerdehipo had agreed to the Irish Malt Luty Bill, Wolk Drawback rill, Premirroryo'iote Limitation Bill, Pear Cap. tine Bill, the Chatham Li Bill, LoadorniiTry Improve ment Bill, Eoglisl, Local MlliCo Bib, with serval stated. masts, sod the ScuicL Tairies CM." Tile ATTORWEE-GaNLItAI. moved the recommit tal of the Copy-right Bill. In the Committee, be moved, a, an amendment, " That the providing of copies to public libraries be dispensed uith, should the author decline to claim his copy-right under the prcaentor former acts, by an express declara tion to that effect ia the title-page of the work," which was agreed to. Mr. ABERCROMBIE contended, that as the au thor of any work would acquire more from the p. trouage of the public, by making the cops-right extend to a period of only twenty years, than he could from the trifling pecuniary emoluoseat he must derive from selling his copy-right to book sellers, though of u longer emitimianue, he there fore moved, •• That the blank be filled up by tlie eo ingeod of This wits styperted by Mr. Wt. tttil e, who re onnuended eidtodisettasiou suJ eo.isideratiun upon the merits of the present Hill. It was e- trernely dangerous to 'unite any itiaoviiti , lll4 on the literary rights of iiitliwidtuils and the public, especially in the hasty manner io which tile Intl had berm in tern; ted, in late in the session. to he hurried throe 4 11 the Horse. In these obji:etiolis lee was sspported by Sir A. ['if:GOTT Yik(l Mt. W 11.1.11411 %ITU. Mr. LYSTER, Mr. Mott.t% and the ATTONNFY. GENERAL. IS opported ilw Originally is. tended to extend to a period of twiestprit 4 lit 3 ears. Mr. WYNNE renewed hi, nhjections to the SWUM. her of copies which the. Act required shent‘d be furnet.ll , d to pnhhc libraries, and hoped the EU would at least be re-committed. This wile resist. by the Areoaure-Grasrsaar. and Mr. Puurusa ; hid after a few wordelii ex planation by Mr. SNIITII and the SPFAKER, a clause was introduced to permit the co s ies fur nished to the said libraries. to he printed on the usual sort of paper on which the largest edifices shall he printed, is order to lessen the expense to the proprietor. • Alter a desultory conversation for rome time, is which Mr. S. brcastssot.c, Mr. BURTON, Mr. S. Boy WN a, Lord H. PETTY, and others, took a part, this incendment was :treed to. Several other amendments and omissions were made in the Colas mittee. The report was then brought up and re ceived, the Bill ordered to be printed, and the fur ther consideration of the Bill fixed for I tit!ay neat. OUTER FISHERY BILL. Mr. Wmaireos brought up the report of the Oyster Fishery Bill. Sir S. Hontxxe said, he shnitill o!ijeet to that part of the Bill making the bte Alin.; of oysters a crime punishable with transportatien for seven years; for this punishment he should hare, in the Committee, had he born present, moved the sub stitution of hard labour sis a work-house fee the space of two ,sears. As the Bill now stood, he en treated the House to recollect how extremely inde finite the limits of mantle property of this kind were, and how very easily the crime might unin tentionally be incurred. The punishment then of this offence should be unattended with any snow cessary severity, and, above all other punishineut% he should be most unlined to prevent the frequent application of transportetiou, both on all ns,:onn mien' and a moral ground. This punishment nikly rendered the morals of delinquents more depravool and desperate, sand coutirmed them in the practice of ever, villainy and vice. Such was the testimony Of the celebrated Mr. Howard, the `rate-passible authority on this aublect. It would be much bet ter to lessen, rather thaq increase, the number of offences and penal laws, This act moreover west upon a false asousuption, namely, that the act it went to amend was etoolivocal. This was unfound ed ; for this met was moat distinct and decisive upon the criminality of the act of stealing much property. The SoLociroa4;eifeßAL- tooteuded, the hill was not intended to create anew crime, for the Bill. although imperfect in acme degree. upon which it Wm founded, had made the same a felony at common law. That species of property lusd alwnys been as strictly gleaned by nauticul persona, and aseensiord by positive boundaries, as au) other/operty in laud, and it was more than any other so 'eta to robbery. The whole intention of the present 11 was, to le store the state of the common law to its origioal p_nrport,aeconling to the Statute of the :list of the King. The objertinu, to the punishment, as too heavy and severe. would. with equal propriety, be made tie those instituted against petty larceny and simple felony . It w 'Le principle of Briti s h to look on all theft,. .of. I% bitterer trifliag tlrserip tion they might be, in the Pittlit. 14(11i. said to pro portion the punishment r.i;li-r to the intention of the person, than to time o .1.111 of the tiring stolro ; hence hr think the Bill old) c- pt r . 1.