The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-02-05 00:00:00

77 * ;,h7gr'^5tier7m1prvlirgni , 7 2 r , akw- NOUSE 01 COMMOUS. publication; thereby promulgating the law to the whole of the Navy of Great Britain, for its regu lation in regard to the trade of neutr als.— I may thus be thought, perhaps. to be idling the time, and wearying the attention of the House, by having given so long and protralleda notice, when it will appear. that what I Ilene had in view, is merely a motion of course. I therefore deem it necessary, for my own justification. to remind those who were present upon the former occasion, when this subjea was touched upon, of the circum stances which occasioned this protraaed notice, and to state to those who were not present, the mere fait. I considered it. Sir. to be so much a mere motion of course. that I intended to bring it forwar I the very day after giving toy notice, but in coming to the House, for that purpose, I was accosted, in a very kind and friendly way, by the Noble Lord oppo site (Lord Howick) who stated, that he wished to oppose the motion I intended to make. It occur red to me, that there could be no grounds for op position, except that it might be said. that there was no necessity for such a production, owing to the notoriety that had been previously given to it I was, however, perfactly satisfied, that, should that objenion be urged, it would be immediately remov ed ; as Gentlemen would see, that although the do cument itself had already been made public, yet the most orderly, regular, and Parliamentary c 'urse of proceeding, would be, to have the Authentic instru ment laid upon the table, before any discussion could take place upon the sullied of it. I found, however, that that was not the ground upon which the Noble Lord inertit to objeft to the motion for its produetrnn. He stated, upon the former occasion, that he ould not anticipate any motion or measure that I could possibly propose to lotted upon such a proditaion, which it would not Le his duty. as a htemblt ot Parliament, and one of His Ma jesty's Ministers, to oppose ; and for that reason, he would not countenance it so far as to admit of its being laid before the Ilouse. Now, Sir, it ap peared to me, that there Wall something to i ew in that principle. that I should have deemed it highly improper to take the House by surprise, on that ground alone, which of itself I conceive to be of considerable importance. The House must he • aware. that those grounds on which the Noble Lord means to oppose the produaion of the docu. meat I anti& to, render it necessary is suppose, that, by the weight of his eloquence, the force of his argument, his high situation, and his in floe:ice, it would be undoubtedly unwise on my part to hazard what I thought a question of importance. to be discussed upon such a short no tice. As it became necessary to enter into the merits of the measure I meant to propose, in order to justify toe grounds of the produelion sought for, I thought it necessary to give as distant it notice for that produslion, as I should have deemed ne cessary to have given for the motion itself. The ground upon which I understand it is still to be opposed, is one which any man, conversant with the proceedings of this House, or actiosinted with the mode in whisk that Noble Lord himself :seed, when s .aced upon this side of it, must conceive to be totally inconsistent with his former principles and professions. The more that inconsistency of con drift apperos evident, so much the more is the im portance of this question increased; and in the same proportion too arises the necessity of tae House exel ring itself for the proteftion of its most valuable privileges, and to ascertain whether we are now, or are to be hereafter. subjetted to some new sort of controul ; or whether we are always to look upon it as being necessary to state reasons for Motions, although merely Motions ot course, and these rea sons, ton, such as might meet with his ( Lord How ick's) approbation. L cannot allow myself to be lieve, that the Government of this country can really mean to establish such a general principle. or that they can persist in opposition to the production now sought for, when none of them can state any detriment as being likely to arise from it. Tile mode I am pursuing, is one which is known, and admitted, as being the most advantageous for dis cussing the measures of Government ; and I cannot think that the House will acquiesce in any new proposition, contrary to what has been ailed upon before, or that it will agree in any respeft with that Noble Lord's ideas upon this particular suljaat. I was disposed for a considerable time to imagine, that the Noble Lord would have anticipated this Motion, by showing in what manner he deemed it to be unnecessary, and the House I am sure will also be of opinion, that something of that kind ought cos have been done. when they consider what the paper is which I am to call for.—The document I propose to call for iii, Sir, a mea sure of Government, which is complete in itself, which has been published to the world, and which has been :teed upon. The opposition to its produc tion, on account of its being unnecessary, is, as 1 have stated, already disclainted. It is a paper which has been already published throughout the kingdom, which is in the hands of every man, and has been seen every where, except here, where alone it can properly be discussed--/ A load cry .f hoar ! bear!)—We, the Representatives of the people of this country, are alone to he excluded from it.— We are not to have the means of approving or disapproving of it, or of taking it iii any shape into oar consideration. I am persuaded, that the refusal, 1 upon such grounds its those stated upon a former oc -1 casioa by the Noble Lord, is perfealy unprecedented; and. I think, that if the House abandons its right of caliing for this produaion, they abandon the meatis ' they possess of inquiring into and reviewing the measures of Government. which will .in the end prove excaedingly disadvantageous to the public service. The ordinary grounds upon which produc tions are opposed, cannot be urged in this case. It cannot be stated, that there is likely to be given any trouble to officers, nor any difficulty in making it our, nor ran it be alleged, that it is merely to gra tify an idle curiosity. It is not said that any public irjery will arise from the cnrrounniention of this p toe', it being at present completely known to the world. I think, too, that every one still admit, that the sub's° of it is of considerable importance, ar.d that the magnitude of it is sufficient to call upon Parliament to pay some attention to the proceed ing. But we are to he told, that it man be re sisted. because His Majesty's Government cannot conceive that any measure can be proaosed upon it, that car meet with their approbation! Lest such a coalud should ultimately discourage similar Mr. Dennison, Member for Hall, took the noel oaths and his seat. Mr. Richard Wharton was allowed leave of ab sence, on account of his ill state of health. Mr. PANE, Chairmsn of the Committers, upon the Thetford Eledinn Petition, report-d, that James Mingay. Esq. was not duly defied; and that "Thos. Creevey, Esq. was duly eleded. Sir. GILSERT HEATHCOTE, Chairman of the Malden Committee. also reported, that I3enja. min Gaitskill. Esq. was not duly elebted ; and that Charles NVeltern, F.sq. was duly el-. Red. Mr. ATKINS WRIGHT. Chairman of the Penrhyn Committee, also reported, that Sir Christo pher Hawkins, Bart. was not July eleded ; and th it John Trevannion. Esq. was duly eleded.— He also reported, that the said Sir Christopher Haw k^'s, and his Agents, had been guilty of gross bribers and corruption. Th.! Clerk of the Crown was then orJered to attead the H .use, in order to amend the said seve re! rturns. Mr. ATKINS WRIGHT then muvel — " That the sai I Report be taken into consideration on Mon day fortnight." Mr. Faw•kener, Clerk of the Privy Council, pre sented, at the Bar, an Arc of the Return of the ArchbiThops, made to the Privy Council, of the aurnbtr of non-resident Clergy, wit!: and without ;leave. Mier a few words from Mr FE!.LOWES, the atccoilot was ordereii to lie on the Tahle. A Petition horn the fritstees of the Royal Naval Asylum was presented to the 1-I)use praying I •tve to bring in a Hill to authorise Ili. Majesty in grant • certain marrsion-house and grounds in the County of Kent. for the use of that Charity.—Ordered to be referred to a Committee. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND pnstom d his Motion, respeeing on augmentation of i%•e Stipends of the Scotch Clergy, until ruesday nem He also gave notice, that he would, on that bight, submit for the consideration of the House, ano. thee MOWN:. conntecd with th a sullen Tit, Irish Treasury Bills Bill was read a third time aid passed The Order of the Day for the enl:srcernent of the time for taking into consideration the Mayo Elation Petrion, being read, Mr. PA RNfI.L said, he :tmid have thought it wrinecessary to have made any further observations 'on the subjee, bin merely to refer to those induce ments which on former and similar o!casions in fluenced the House. He alluded to the decision of th: House upon the Aberdeen and the City of Dub lin Petitions; in the former case, th, . disiance was cniisidered a suffirient ground for any delay that might take place ; hot, as he apprehended, in the present ease, a similar opposition to shat in the Londonderry Petition might be made, he thought his duty to state some reasons, which he trusted would *ie sufficient to induce them to agree to the eutargeraent be proposed. One we.. that in so pn. puli-u, a county, 1111111 the extent and variety of the evidence, a cansiderable time was necessary to pre pare the proofs. An eminent barrister, who had taken an aaive part in the fileeion, and whose eurtions wet. still further wanting, was 11 , •avoidably etsikaged to other professional avocations ; these, wails the absenee of a material witness, were the Toands on which he moved fir its enlargement. he House had already admitted it in other cases, merely upon geuer it grounds ; an 1, therefore, he trusted, tisell after the special circumstances he had stated, the House would agree to enlarge the time. Mr. CORKY did not conceive that Scotch eases ware at ali applicable In Ireland there was no necessity of takins the evids nee any considerable distance f: thi•sr own county; indeed. in the present case, the Commissioners appointed to sit in the ccurity of Down, which was the next county to Mayo, were for the purpose of examining such wit nesses. and therefore the ease of Scotland could ant apply. His Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Parnell) had stated some special matter, which be did not coy ceive would justify the House in deporting from its general rule. or surrendering that principle of jea lousy which so strongly operated upon motions of this hiod. It was to be recollefted, that this was the se:ond petition presented against the return of the Sitting Mcmher, who, on Ilse reiiult of the contest, bad a majority of 4000 votes ; under all the circum at ince'. be did not see grounds for acquiescing in the in.ition of his Right Hon. Friend. Str.ingers were ordered to withdraw, and while er iuded from the gallery, we understand Use elu tion for the enlargement was carried. On our tv:urn to the gallery, we found the I louse occupi: d upon the ;notion for enlarging the time for the c insideration of the Downpatrick Petitions, strangers were again ordered to withdraw, and, Re ult.le!v.ind, the motion was agreed to. Mr. ROSE moved s:vetal accounts relative to the tnnntge of ships trading to China ; the value of English merchandise export.d there, and the quan tities of tobacco, tea, rum, brandy, fze. imported and exported, from the year 1767 to 1796. The Secretary at War laid before the House a Return of the men reported in the Monthly /Legi t/Witte Lists, returned to the Adjettant-General, who bad veliesterred for general service daring the year It —.Ordered to lie re the Tahoe. Ar.Vansittart brought up the Dill foe the Import. mama of Turkey Tobacco ; which was read a' first time. and ordered to be read a second time to tter/110W. OADIi.II or COUNCIL RI lATIVE TO NEU ritu.s. NU. PERCKVAI.--.• Sir. I rise in pursuance of a notice I gave, for the purpo• e nt moving for the produffion of a Paper, which I have no doubt the House will consider as worthy of their serious con sideration. Hut however much it may he fit for the opinion and deliberation of the I louse, or of what ev importance it may appear, yet I cannot help Sealing some apprehension, that I may be under the neees•ity of °Laing same apology to the House tar haring given the appearance of so much pomp and solemnity to a motion of this description. This ap pearance has originated from my having given such a distant notice inr a paper being Lid before the blouse, which, it is clearly understood, has already beets seen in every Coi:e-house, in London, s.nl in ev.ry place where Newspapers are read, anJ %emelt has been published in 71e .1.14061 Gazette, for Lie ;forptise of giving it an cream, and authentic 1 4.. Ile Sp f .j.l dIG yciis. WA xc . 7.! let at alef MIT el! I!!; - . , ,t!u•sts • .„ J „.„ f investigations, I shall suppose, fir the sake of argu ment, that I accede to that propositam; and that it Is possible, that the Noble• Lord may be able to satisfy the House, that there is no ground for lw adopting the measure I propose ; and that he shall be able to satisfy the House, that the plaa alread, pursued is sufficient few- the purpose intended ; that therefore the coon or ought to be satisfied, without any thing farther. If all this is to he ac ceded to, does it follow, that because the result of a d: hate does not alter a measure, we must arquieace in the proposition, that there is no nece-sty for in quiring into its merits ? I submit, that in orJer have this subjea discussed, the Papers should Ise upon the Table; but this is to he refused to Mem bers of this House, until they snail show, that measure they are to propose upon [isms, is such a , can meet with the countenance, approbation. and protection of Ministers. This is sayiag nothing more nor le-s than this—that the want of the tits cu.sion is to preclude the Papers, and the want of the Papers is to preclude the di.cussinn. (Hear hum ! hear him ) Is thus the way, Sir, in which this House is to be treated upon such an important subject ? Is this the way in which our tights and privieges as Members, are to be infringed ? I cer tainly should not be disposed to deny, that if this Paper, or any other, can be stated to be one that would be prejudicial I. the public service by its ex posure, the statement of that circum,tance to the House, would be a sufficient ground for its rejection Nay, I would even be willing to go this length, and to say, that if there did not exist any probability of good to be derived, it should not be a subjeuf of dis cussion at all, and that that would be a sufficient ground for rejeCting any such application that may be made. But the Noble Lord, and those'who ad with him, seem to be so confident of their measures, that they will not even permit the House to delibe rate upon them, or to tell them, that some measure of more utility might be adopted. I certainly can• not conceive why, in any view, the N)ble Lord should decline the discussion. If the measure he has pursued be a wise one, then it will the better bear discussion and examination ; if prudently adopted, it will then be seen, that prudence exists in it. and that what they had in view was likely to be attained. The Government of the country will thereby gain reputation, and their conduit will ap pear satistatlory to the public. Butt, Sir, should it so happen, that any other charader attaches to their measures, that they are not perfesfly judicious, or not Likely to attain the object intended, is it not proper that they should give us the best made of reetifying it? If, in the principles which their plan avows, it should appear that there is a defeel, that it is a measure of weakness and inefficiency, then I may conceive that there may be a desire to shrink from the discussion of it, and to prevent the consideration of it in the most free and regular manner. We may fairly con sider, indeed, that there are no real nor substantial grounds upon which my present motion can be re sisted. If it were stated that any serious conse quences were likely to ensste, it was the duty of the Noble Lord to have shown so, and then I should have had the means of knowing whetlh r it was my parliamenury duty to bring the matter forward upon this occasion; but the manner in which he resists it, goes to establish a principle, which, I think, can never be acceded to. lie appears thus to adopt the very mode to provoke that discussion, which, if dan gerous, he ought to have prevented. Although it be impossible for me to conceive just reasons for the Noble Lord resisting my proposition, yet there are two, which, I believe, may be stated as the true ones. It may, perhaps, be sesirable to show to what extent the Noble Lord's power of persuasion in this House can go, and how far he can prevail upon the Members of it to submit their faith and their consciences to his assertions, and confide ill the declaration of what he says is wise for them to do. If this be his objeft, 1 am sure there could not be a more favourable opportunity to make the experiment. He (Lord Howick) will say to them, " I will show you to what manner you are to follow me. (Hear Ana ! 4ear Atm !) Yon have heard the satisfaCtory reasons which I hav: always shown you, and I will now show you the fertility of my genius, my understanding, my argument, and my further cogent reasons ; and point out to you the steps which I was always desirous you should' follow. Our former plans must be abandoned. and I will call upon you now, upon the faith which you have always shown me formerly, to tread back the steps which we have always opposed together. But that change will not at all impede your conviChon ; only have the dis cretion to follow the same standard you followed formerly, and I shall be satisfied." If such, Sir, be the nature of the Noble Lord's argument, the present is curt sinly a proper opportunity to address his followers in the stile I have Alluded to. There is another reason for his opposition, and one which I lament, as being a more dangerous one, because it would lead to an abuse of authority, not for the pre sent time alone, but to continue for a length of time, in a manner that ought not to be tolerated by Par liament. To establish, as a precedent, that people's reasons and understandings must not be convinced, and that they must be forced to adopt a proposition which they cannot trust to a legitimate decision. would Ise a principle, which would prove fatal in the lung tun to those who :at upon it. This might be es tablishing a principle. which might art-rwards be ap plied dangerously, that we are to rejelt the produe ton of a pa t ter, without inquiring into the nature of its contents. In this case, let us contemplate what would follow as to the consideration of negociations for peace, or treaties of ally description, that may be entered into, and in which, perhaps, the import ant interests of the country may be abandoned. lo such Gases, arewe tohave nothing but genet al grounds of conjeCture Are we ts be told. on all ore,' sioos, that we cannot, or must not, state objeChons, as we Cations produce papersor documents on wilich to foun-ltheast Are we I 3 be refused redress, because we cannot at first make out a case to satisfy the Hou -e Al to the propriety of producing papers, whole that very inability is necessarily ocoasioued by that very non prodation of documents Now, Sir, I pr , kg- that 1 wish the House would eerinusly relied before they establish any precedent of this sort I know that the Noble Lord ipposate told us the other day. that no thing like any taunt, proceeding Nom this side of the Howse. would lead him to alter his line of conduct, as to what must be done in other places. I tlo not I, . ... I.'-... 1i... "rt _believe that ever cud an instrument or document was before opposed ; aid, therefore, I Cant„( • prebend that he can conceive himself tautued in the present instance. But it is not to for nee priecinlet that . I will apply my observation s; I may allu le to their present professions, that they wish every in- s . sure of Government to be s;•1i and sif ht. Let us see how sincere the present elinisters are in t i-ir professions. I trust, hit, that I hay • said itongh to show the necessity of the yroduition of he paper ia question ; hut I do the. the necessity of entering into the consideration of th • ohj eft its whi c h it refers, not that I mu .t at pr • It sciify the Horse that they must acquiesce to f:1- I am to stiggesi, but to sari-:y rh to that my o .lj-et is not that of idle c: n ,se y, nor , is any degree, wanton and ridicolothi. I have nl views but those arising from the 111114,0.0 to and irn• portante of the sithject, johies: to a c one scion ;hat there ate serious wounds for epprehendiog that t measures, int••nded to be adapted by than Order et Council, have not been sn usefully Applied as fr. rher consideration might have suggested. In t h e view of the subject , I must necessarily call the attern tion of the House to the Order of Councd itself. It recites, "that the French Government, in isolation of the triages of war, have prohibited the commerce of all neutral nations with His Majesty's dimi.tioci, and have declared us in a state of blockade ; list such a conduct on the part of our enemy would give His Majesty a right of retaliation J1441..5t the commerce of France ; that His Majesty feels him self hound, by a due regard to the interests of his people, not to suffer such viu:ence, whhout taking some measures to retort the evils of their own injustice; and it :diet wards states, that oo neutral vessel shall be suffered to trade from ea* of the enemy's ports to ancther," &:. lam not din posed to dispute the right of His ;Majesty to reta. lime; but where is a duet avowal of the principle which binds nations as to neutrals? it is imposshee to suppose that any nation is to be cmis•rained by a law, which their enemy refuses to esthete to, or ab solutely renounces. I apprehend, that, in thia.cann where there is a direct avowal that our enemy wilt not be bound by the law of nations, n e are justified in adopting, to the fullest went, a similar coacua. If it be true, then, that we hay: a rig .5 to rendote, the only question is, whether it be expedient and politic to d 3 so, and to what extent ? Tice x. pediency and policy of the retaliation, I think, ere already sufficiently admitted is Inc Order of Council; and, therefore, the only point that re mails is relative to the exteut 1 coaceive that we have a right to go to any extent within riot to which the enemy have gone. In considering this question, it is necessary to understand what our objet ought to be, and I think there can be no doubt that there ought to be two obj.h!ts ; namely, that we should retaliate in such a manner as may produce the best means of counteracting the sect effects intended by the enemy's decree as to our commerce, and make them feel most the evil at ish.g from their own conduft, or, in the language in the decree itself, " The effntLs of their own violence. and the evils of their own injustice." if such be one of the objects its view, I will vesture to assert. confidently to assert, that the portion of trade which Government have selected, is the very worst adapted for that principle being applied. If mischievous effects are to result from their De cree, our first object ought to be. to make it as little inconvenient as possible. No man will doubt, that notwithstanding this Decree of the French, as t our commerce, English manufactures may still find their way to the Continent, but at a dearer priee. in consequence of the inconvenience, hazard, embar rassment, and difficulty, by which they must be elm veyed. There must be som..thing to coaateroa lance the risk of capture and confiscation, to % slids that Decree will subject our com.inedities. This articles will, by such additional eaeence, be alatost excluded from the Continental markets ; and it does appear to me. that no man can look to this Order of Council for the necessary redress. in regard to this first object. Now let us look to the other object in view, that of making the enemy feel the evils of his own injustice. To do that. I apprehend, that the trade that ought to be selected, on which to apply our prohibition, should be one which is most easy to prohibit laid interrupt, and at the same time, most prejudicial to the country with whom we are at variance. Neither of these measures are to be attained by the plait proposed in the Order of Council alluded to. 1 would arc this question, is the coasting trade that species of trade which we can most easily interrupt by our marine establishment ? Is it out possible for them to carry their vessels under the pi - me:bon of batteries, or get into ports occasionally to hide themselves thins our fleets? There certainly is a greater probaoiitty of their escaping us, when they are engiged in that coasting trade, than if they were coming from more distant countries. Is the interruption of the coasting trade that which is attended with the greatest injury to our enemy? Most certainly nut. —lt would certainly be desirable not to al low that trade to remain motel:tested ; but it ought not to be the chief, the only objet, set our attention. If we could prevent the cemm 'dims from at all arriving upon their shores, certainly that should be our principal aim, and the moist cif . Musts means of cumin:radial; the miscinevntts mita of t wig. Decree upon our trade.l beg to be u deratood, that I do not mean to say. that it Is for m • to suggest what would be the wisest in idit of effithog that re tabittitiat in the most complete manner ; ail that wish to say is, that at is sxceestoto sloubi nil whe ther the mode already Adopted ts t ie roost eireaual, and that it is the:Mote worthy ot consideration.-4 I for my part nolit that is ought to have bees Against tile ire portaion of the produce of the Colo gnes of Fn ince and Spain to the wish .en or Europe. that we ought to have turned our attention to. ibis w o ols have comprehended all the objects which this country can possibly havb in view.— SileiinlJ we nor suce •ed is effeutsally ptcy that more nerneiva trade, at least we ‘11,111.1 be able to render it much sr. es peritaus, to enflame the price of insuraree, stud tn. lefty give to our own commodities a better caaace of obtsimng a market spore the Continent Vie hlohlt I f ord seemed to think that this vestron could not be +segued, without earning into the tree y with America ; I swfrain-d Itum gla .cing at s s all my will h. lag, that ce 11051 i metee a di.tag recogmova of the tight tu this country to 1141 is a oussief • , may t offendini principl4 - ' tl we gether• °y tu. e sLAII have n yeAshAve might rciluit lot Custom ,is sohjea kipted by 1 me to • Order of Ise, in of leave that order ilia being re ad-qu rith movita 'meted to Hi •uslfplt? .euttal Vei izg to the E Sir .1 • • eon Leanne. relates to th ♦ernment. upon the at ad tone/ msde tows It WAS wits of his Mot' for the pc Mt have b discussion A Nlotioe which gee ie this li❑ the nature ell to regn find any called for kJ: I do not be Ina been none being cir 4 in evrry limes to si town so rives, Al 11 the Mt m aw tosvt ap. do . It mar t tha o t o offending 'le, cu t a principle to r aa defend tl uryl that pri I:J. v s disgrace ) a ; i i rt America, at ".4 tt.stion Aa • cads. No ti of nor coca 13 ich alpted the n 11° oed on by n le, en my who it 141 hare a rt; is kt..ridly, we nv gether. tYe s!..111 hive n 1.4 t v e.m4s have might rektoii °2. our Custom- -4- this subje a , ' 't attired by I .a.lkqu Ile 10 It dte order of Hate, in of ce molutikin Yi. to leav e av aerd "t i n o 1 14 IAO I I being sorehe that t h t qu n. w i t h movis of 'tented to Hi Alt CIOUSIT plea eir Council of e rde no Neutral Vet of Mg to the E i " Sir .1 I , ta. that a eon the Learner "elates to tit r a ternment. kb- spent the k s at ad tone/ kill made tows ed It WAS wi • l of his Mott te. for the pc n 1 sot have b • discussion k " r e A Motion of which gee ft• is this Nn the nature to to tegu his find any HIT called for no lin: I do k kly. not he ma lay been none 'rod being cirs kor in every No:,le L: -116 giros, to sk ce. ari,h tows kcla m, rives, k• are As II the (it seed to ce IT fore the 1 rd. eu - posse: ft. " the I or bt. of itid^pr as assertion state of h km. pla:e shit witted, I . skit together. is- we ought kch so via est to exismpie. cost eat. st w tt when the sot la wilt attic the wished-I ' ll 7 cnlculati . f involved ed. 1-101 .IM oinwn in as jour's u ur or . I'4l est jelly, it bcd enemy,