The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1803-06-28 00:00:00

■ 1~. V --- Mg= / MOM to go further, and propose that a person ballotted for should receive a fie ther bounty of two guineas in stead of one. The next clause was, that which en ahled his Majesty to model the Army of Reserve. He would state the outline of the manner in which those battalions would be formed. No officer would be entitled to command them who had not the rank of colonel; the commands were to be given to co lonels end not to generals ; field officers would be taken from the half-pay. He should propose a clause enabling his Majesty to direil officers to dis c'iarge such as were willing to serve in the Ene. He observed that regiments of the line might be ap poiused to receive those men upon the same princi ple as was done last war. He stated that it was his intention, as far as possible, to form regiments from the same counties. In large counties he should form one or two, and in the other counties where there were not enough for a single battalion, lie would fill it up from the neighbouring countries. Having adverted to something that fell from an Honourable Member (Mr. Windham) on a • former night, he observed, we still had consi derable rescurces ; there were a great number of serjeants who belonged to battalions, who had not been called into service. In the next piece, the recruiting staff would furnish a considerable sup ply, particularly if it was made part of a plan, diet these battalions of reserve should be considered as battalions of the 'regiments of the army., and that they were to be permitted to wear the semcfacings and badges, and in faSt be deemed as supplementary, to the army. He should hope if this tocik plate, it would be understood, - to the honour of 'the State, that no man was to he Made use of for any other service then that of Great Britain and Irciani ; that they were to be, at liberty to go into . the line, if tiles , thought proper; hut that there was to be ao power to Compel thesis to do so. He was not aware that there was any material arrangement 'different from what was in the . Bill. He had thought it right to state what the Amendments were,- . which he purpoied to iritroduee, in order that he might not be subjeßed to any cross firing. He meant farther to propose, that the Cinque Ports: the City of London, and tile Tower Hamlets, • should each raise their quotas. The Cinque Ports were to raise 404) men ; London had been callelon to finish their quota, but they were to raise the men in their own way ; there would be a clause, saving the privileges of the City of 'London, and that this should not be drawn intc a precedent. Mi. PITT said, he could not, standing in the re lation he did to the Cinque Ports, avoid observing, that the quota of 400 men for the Cinque Ports, could not have been fixed with reference to any for mer Bill, because they had always beeu . sxempted. He did not use this as an argument against this . plan, which was a levy of a new charader, the plan being, that whatever was furnished was to be under regular officers ; but, as one standing in the relation to the Cinque Ports, which by his Majesty's favour' Ire did, he wished the Committee to consider, what was the Proportion of men they ought to raise with reference to their population. He had no reason to believe, that what he recommended would'make • .any material difference in the number of 400, but it would have mole the appearance of justice if there . was a clear criterion. After suggesting an ahera . •tion in a clause in the 17th page. Which also referred • to the Cinque Ports, he observed, that it was lirs wish this extensive plan of national defence should be Made complete in every part. The SECRETARY at WAR stated, that 400 . would not be found too many for the quota for the Cinque Ports. Sir WILLIAM YOUNG objefted to the num ber proposed far Buckineliani—he thought it un- . reasonable that county should raise 435 men, when . there were already 523 of the Yeomanry. The f.CKEIARY at WAR replied, that the quota for Buckinghamshire Was Only in the propor: tion of S 3 in 10,000 Men. Mr: PlTTehought this competition for exernpe - lion highly dangerous, and observed, that if Buck , ingearnshire had in its zeal gone a little'beyond its . proportion,it would have been laudable. • , - •- . When they came to the clause for imposing a quota of 656 for the city of London, Mr. Alderman COOMBE reconunended, that the clause should he deferred, as the city of London claimed from its charter an exemption feom c 4 uty. There could be no doubt of the spirit and , patriotism of the city, and he only wished the eub- Jed to be postponed to avoid disputes, until" some communication should be made . on the subjed to - his Majesty's Ministers. . The SECRETARY at WAR said, that in this clause he followed the precedent see hint in farmer times, when 300 men were levied by Ad of Pasha . meat on the city. However, if it was thought de . eirable, he had no *Nation to let the clause be post- Edn '1 he LORD MAYOR said, that . he was as de sirous as any one that every place should furnish a proportionable quota, and was assured, that if the citizens of London were left to themselves, they would zealously and cheerfully come forward. It was then aeseed that the clause should be post poned. . Eight hundred men were next voted as the quota of the Tower Hamlets. The Comniittee then divided • the Bill, for the purpose of making the regulations with regard to Scotland a separate measure. Sir ROBERT BUXTON wished that new lists should be made out for the ballots. The SECRisTARY at WAR said, that there was a power in the Bill to make out new lists if necessary, but at present he thought it. best to abide by the old ones. On the clause for the ballotting persons from the age of 16 to 15, and to subjed nodes from 45 up.. wards, who pail 301. a year to the assessed taxes, - to find substitutes, Mr. W. SMITH said, that if persons above the age of 45,years, should be compelled to find sub, statues, of course it was manilest that it was meant to operate upon property as well as personal. sets. vice. In that case he did not see how women, and those persons of property who were exempted, should,not take share of the burthen. If the mea sure was for the protedion of property, and not for . personel service, surely the man of 90 years of age had as good a sight to be exempted as any woman . in the, kiagdom. He was aware that this might not be cousidered as a very gallant proposition on his part, bat really, if protedion of property was the pi iticipie of the measure, be could not conceive why bit women should be exempted more than old men who had out-lived service, end probably, in their younger days, might have served befoie. . diiiiii re...—. The SF.CRETARY at WAR. observed, that by ancient custom, his Majesty was empowered to call out all persons from sixteen to sixty years of age, in cases of emergency. For the age of sixteen, there fore, the Bill only followed the old custom; if per sons of that age were fit for service, of the size of five feet two inches, sad so far as not to 61 worth 1001. In the latter case, they must either serve or find substitutes. As to the principle, he said, that the Bill followed-the sane in point of personal pro perty,. as that of the statute of Charles 11. The reason why women were not liable to find substi stutes under this Bill, though they might the pos sessed of property, was, that there was no instance in our history of females being so called upon, and though the demand might be just, yet the novelty of such a thing would be likely to excite a clamour. Ile added, that he had no objeaton to exempt per sons altogether over the age of sixty, and oblige those from forty-five to sixty, to stand the ballet and find substitutes. General MAITLAND was for extending the ballots beyond the; age of 45, observing, that for five or six years after being called• out, more as sistance mould he derived from:men of 50; than from boys of Iti years of age. • A Member proposed thet, instead of• being re gulated by the assessed duties, which 'did not make a fair criterion, all persons *above The age of tilt' sineed be exempt . front. finding substitutes, unless they were worth 10001. a year. Mr. SHERIDAN thought it highly proper to add five years more to the 45 'already made the limited age of service by the present Dill ; and that ' personal service should be more rigidly enforced . than heretofore. It would be an easy thing to se: little.ploueh-boys of five-feet two inches high, and lti years of lige, and- they may depend upon it, that the greater pare of the substitutes would be of this description, and of that standard from which -little may be expeeted; If so, he 'mist say that these were not efforea suited to the present crisis. The standard should be set to a.due proportion of man hood, and the number wanted would be hat a mere trifle in proportion to the population of this country. In proof of this he asserted, not from conjeaurc, but after some enquiry, that there were stout fellows now employed in building and decorating magni ficent houses in this metropolis, superior in number to the whole of the army of reserve. If the prin ciple of personal service was departed from, as in the present BM it evidently had been, he saw no reason for exempting any age, for surely the mail even of seventy had vigour enough remaining, at least, to put his hands in his pocket. When no exemption ivas allowed to persons whose at tendance.. was required upon professional and other duties, such as Peers of the Realm, Mem bers of that House, Privy Counsellors, Cabinet Ministers, and even the Judges of the land ; what ground was there for . exempting opulent old men ?-- The . payment of 401. a-year to the assessed taxes, was no criterion of property, as it was well known that there were numbers of men of fortune residing in Orate houses and lodgings ahouttown, who kept horses, and lived extravagantly, and notwithstand ing paid scarcely any thing to the assessed taxes. He would net go so far as to say, that the exemption should go so far as 10001. a-year, he thought 2001. ' a-year to be a more prow limitation. As to the standard, he was not diSposed to adopt Serjeent Kite's idea of the scale of merit ; considering that " dating souls may dwell inlittle men !" and as it was possible that a nian under five feet two, might have as much property as one of six feet high, he could not conceive why such a person should ' be exempted from finding a substitute. With respect to females, he would put. them out of the question ; for though the age of chivalry was gone, it would be unnialily and indecent to compel delkate ladies to run about the streets, crying out, 44 I want a man, I want a substitute." He con cluded with proposing, that they should begin with the age of 18, instead of IG, as proposed by this Bill. The SECRETARY at WAR. said, he had no • objeftinn to begin 4t the age of 18, and let the bal lots run up to the age of GO. Mr. KINNAIO) wished it to be distinaly stated whether the pripelple of the Bill Went upon property or on personal service ? By subjeaing persons above 50 to find substitutes, the Bill seemed to aim at pro perty, and if so,when the Judges were not exempted, lie could not approve of any exemption being ex tended to my Lords the Bishops and beneficed Cler gymen holding livings beyond a certain value. 1-k gave notice of his intention, in the proper stage, to move that their Lordships, as well as beneficed . ' ClergYmen, should be made liabk to stand a ballot. Sir WILLIAM 9 EARY was, against the mea sure altogether, as much resembling the French Conscriptions. Mr. PIT l' wished to know what increase of ' numbers was to be expected from extending the bal lots to fifty years of age. He doubted much whe ther the difference would accelerate the ballot a sin- gle week. Our, defensive operations, he hoped, would not be confined to this measure, but another local supplementary force raised, and if so, he sub mitted, whether it would not be better to reserve the aged persons for that emergency, whenever it may arise. If seven days wouldbe required to make out new lists, he believed it would be found best to ad here to our original list. He had not the means of knowing the extent of the enemy's preparations, but when we considered his avowed purpose and the advance 2 period of the season, he feared that by any alteration, we shouldlose more in point of time, than we should gain in numbers.' Sir ROBERT BUXTON said, that much time would be lost before the parochial constables could make out new lists. General MAITLAND thought the most desira. ble thing was aCtivity in raising th e force, and should was ig tn. _ and slim,. rather, on refleftion, leave the aged people for the supplementary army proposed. The SECRETARY at WAR said, it would be fortthe committee to decide, whether persons beyond a military age should be liable to rind substitutes, and they would recollect that there was already a clause empowering thellleputy Lieutenants to make out new lists if necessary. Mr. G. VA WTTART said, that making out new lists would consume at least a fortnight. Mr. PrIT doubted whether it would not be bet. ter to forego altogether for the present any call upon persons beyond the age of 45. He had no ob jection on this occasion to blend prope rty with per sonal security, so as to meet the exiwncy, particu larly when he considered that we were doing it for the best praCtical purpose of self-defence. These from 45 to 50 years of age , who had property to be included within the proper arrangement, bore but a small proportion to the general classes who were to till up the levy. He.recommended the speedy execution of themeasure, though subjel to minute inaccuracies. The CHANCELLOR of The EXCHEQUER said, there would be great difficulty in altering the old system, and he would willingly forego any addi tional numbers that may be gained fronr the age of 45 to 50 years, for the sake of simplicity and dis patch‘ of the plan. We should be entangled in endless difficulties, unless we at present took the lists as we found them, and left the power of sub sequent alterations to_the Deputy Lieutenants. Sir L. PARSONS spoke in favour of expedition, for tr.e sake of which he would support the clause as it stood, with all its imperfedions. Mr. SHERIDAN did not conceive that the al teration could be attended with much delay or diffi culty. It was desirable that in a plan which 4ffeded . property, the burthen should be thrown on the rich, which would give the poorless reason to complain. Colonel WOOD proposed, that if he who peid 301. altur to the assessed taxes found one he who paid 1001. a•year should find three ,ui'en. Colonel BASTARD objected to the propositions on the parislieh . observing„that in the last war lie knew or a parish- where there was not a single man liable to be balloted for in the Militia, theychring all been enterea into.voltinteer Carps. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the experience of the last war shewed the t apa cizy of the country to rai , eby ballot, the force, now required, in addition to that already levied.- The y , volunteer force was now much reduced, and the members that composed the companies in tile last war, would now come wit'hin'the sphere of theehance by ballot. In fad there was a greater roice on' foot in the course of the.last war. Mr. ERSKINE said, we .had only to raise the country, and it would defend itself. He deprecated all alterations, and recommended the adoption of the .originaPeliuse. The Committee then agreed to the original clause, with the substitution of the age of 18, for that of 16. • The Committee next proceeded to discuss the Ex imption Clause, extending to Officers of the Army -and Navy, Members of Universities, Clergymen, &c Mr. KI NNAIRD then proposed, that Bishops and henificed Clergymen, should be excluded from tie exemption. . 1-11 was told this was not the.proper stage for sue!) a mfflcon. • ' Sir W. GEARY move to introduce, alter tie word Clergymen, these,. “ having no other trade lor occupation. ' . „ Several Members complained of the sestasicips pradised by persons taking out licences as preachers. , The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'' said, there were certainly great and crying abides in that way, against which precautions were taken in the present Bill. As a proof of the extent to which it was carried, he mentioned that a Nobleman (Lord Ellenborough, we believe) now at the head of the law department, when Attorney General, was drawn . for a Militia man; and happening to speak of the circumstance, a gentleman told him, " You can get over it fora shilling, by taking out a licence as a preacher." The SEVRE'fARY at WAR, after a good deal of conversation, proposed that the clause should remain as at present, to be subsequently considered, which was agreed to. An amendment was proposed relative to the clause which objected to the services of the different volunteer companies after the .I€2d of June, 1303, in order to accept the continuation of their services, as advanta geous to the country. I he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he trusted the Committee would not infer flea the offers of persons to raise volunteer corps would be actually treated with inattention ; a considerable number of offers had been made by several persons in Scotland ; but all answer to such offers kid been kept back, until the sentiments of Parliament were known upon the subject. Mr. FULLER thought the Volunteer Corps might be made extremely beneficial to the nation, particu larly the Yeomanry Cavalry. ' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed, it was the wish of many to raise Volunteer Cavalry ; and it was a good suhjed to urge, whe ther the clause comfit iced in the present measure, ought to extend to such volunteers as had not been raised. Sir JAMES SINCLAIR ERSKINE objected to the inlisting of Volunteer Corps, and the proposi tion in general, as tending to favour the attempts of many to avoid serving in the levy which was about to he made. Mr. STURGESS remarked that volunteer com panies were inadequate to the pertOrmance of stria military 'duty, and that many had lately been seen crowded with recruits nv.rcly for the purpose of exempting themselves from the present service After some further discussion it was agreed that the clause should remain on its original establish ment. Colonel CRAUFO RD proposed, that the services of - ballotted should extend to l.sr - persons regin regi ments, as the only means of safety the country could adopt. If the enemy landed, he observed, we must have old and well•disciplined troops to attack them, or they would soon be at London. Those who had been in Holland, and had seen the numerous collec tion of boats and schoots, which were every where observed on the canals of that place, would not doubt the probability of the landing of the enemy, and their ability to land 100,000 men. The Dutch r knew our coasts, were excellent seamen, and as well acquainted with the navigation of our coast and ri vers as our own experiences! pilots. He contended that 70,000 men raised as regular troops, were sufficient to oppose an enemy of 100,000, and from the experience he had, during the late war, in military affairs, he was assured the above number of mei,, regularly disciplined, would be better than the battalions of reserve, which were about to be raised. We ought to have an army of regulars to oppose the French ; not that he doubted the condua of a British army of any description, but it was necessary a diamond should cut a diamond. He wished to know where the difference was, between sending men•raised by ballot into the 4td regiment, or the battalion of reserve, provided the service of each was not to ex tend beyond a certain limit. He concluded with again repeating, that a regular. force was the only one proper to meet an enemy, should they laud. The SECRETARY ar WAR said, it was intend.' eid to eropoiver his Majesty to dispose of the force - • • that might he raised by ballot into such regiments as might be considered of the greatest advantage to meet the exigency of the moment. The CHANCI I .I.I_,OII of the EXCHEQUER stated, that it would be left open to his Majesty to assign the men raised by ballot to the service of other regiments in the service of Great Britain. He could not help remarking upon the language used by an Honourable Member who had just spoken. He wished to despise the power of the enemy, and not to lessen that of his own country ; that conduit had not, however, been adopted by the Hon. Member, who,if he had desired to propagate doubt and un certainty, would have worded his remarks in the way he had done. Colonel CRAUFORD said a few words in ex planation. The Right Hon. DENIS BROWN spoke of the strength of the country, and the arrogance of the Firit Consul, whose pride, he observed, had been the occasion of the present contest. Mr. WINDHAM said, the measure once moved in the House, of having a large body of troops raised • 4tt. London,'was'teprobated by all as a' plan that ought to 'basic !semi avoided. There was then much clamour used,in op p ositio n, and Jae bald to mark the reverse in the:House, which had occasioned such change of sentiment, it could only be.attnbuted something radically. wrong. As tot* spirit of the country, which he had heard 36 much of, he had net seen it, he did not find that ardOur to meet the eneniy which had been described ; but on the contrary, he found a sort of apathy and calm desperation arising from a cAice which he could not account for. Tlte:e appeared a feeling,which he could not express. He —hoped the Right lion. Gentleman would not take his sentiments in a wrong point of view ; he was not ambitious; it would be ridiculous if he was ; but from circumstances that might arise, he could not avoid being explicit with respea to the question of the clause ' • he understood it would be left to his Majes ty, he therefore would say nothing further on the sobjea. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the question of the clause would not Lave .occupied his attention farther, if a Right Honour able Gentleman, who spoke last, had not expressed a sense of the - apathy - with which the country appeared to exist ; the sentiments were, however, - unjust, and different from what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said on a thrmer day; the language of the Right Honourable Gentleman was the lan guage of despondency, and not of animation. Let him ask the House whether his language was pro . per, he would give all credit to an Hon. Member's services (Colonel Crauford) and his zeal for the • • public good ; he could not however avoid thinking that the sentiments of the latter had been suitable to 'the plans of the First Consul of France, and tending to check the ardour of public spirit. An Hon. Member states, that the desperation or the melancholy which is every where to be seen, arises from the conduct of Ministers; the question was, whether the pros• pect of affairs were then more melancholy that! when the Right Hon. Member formed a part of the administration (Hear ! bear!). With resped to the measure, the same did not appear to be under stood ; he was sure his Hon. Friend (the Secretary at. War) took much pains to express it, and he thought the latter bad succeeded. He did not at tempt to deny that the enemy had the means of landing troops from the coast of Holland, but did it follow that the metropolis is in danger ? Let them land, and they would not then get to London. In the course of the next week, all the regiments would be at their stations for the public defence, and he reckoned with confidence of repelling the enemy in all direetions, if they should arrive, with such a naval force ; and the feelings that would be excited in the moments of the approach of an enemy, and the exertions that would made, he had no doubt of being generally successful ; he begged the House to excuse him for troubling them. so - long, but he coulct not avoid speaking, when he heard his Majesty's Government accused of being tardy, and reflections thrown on its conduit, which was not in the least applicable. Colonel CRAUFORD, in explanation, said,• he did not mean to disapprove of any measures pursued by his Majesty's Ministers. The question relative to the clause remained in its original state, no alteration having taken place. The clause extending the duration of service to five years, and six months after the signing of a Treaty of Peace, was then put and agreed to. An amendment was proposed and agreed t , 3, that no Member of a Yeomanry Corps shall be exempted from service in the Army of Reserve, who shall appear to have absented himself from rnester for two days in any one week, or ten days in any one month; but the name of the person so absenting himself, should be struck off the roll of the Yeo manry Corps. A:clause was proposed and agreed to, that the fine for a substitute should be 201. generally. If was also agreed, that a Colonel of a regiment of the Army oc.Reserve should be enabled to give a discharge to any man wilting to enter a regiment of the line. The remaining clauses were then put and agreed to. The Report was then received, and the Bill or. dered to be printed, and the Relfort to be taken into further consideration on Wednesday. The Lords amendments in the Clergy Bill were ordered- to be taken into consideration on Wed nesday. Mr. ALEXANDER brought up the Report of the Increase Duty Excise Bill. Mr. PLO MEI( requested to know what time the instalments mist be paid by malsters and brewers for the stock on hands ? The c'HANCELLOR of he EXCHEQUER answerdi upon the 2 ttli of Odober, 25th of Dc cemher, liith of January, and 9d of March. Mr. V ANSIT FART then stated, that it was intended to reduce the proposed duty upon port from 201. to 121. and that the duty upon French wines should remain at 181. additional per ton. Mr. PLOMER expressed his surprize that the duty upon wine, which was the beverage •of the rich, should be reduced, while that on Malt wa.s increased. Mr. VANSITTART said, the object was to en courage importation, and for the future extension of the trade. • Col. C. HUTCHINSON wished to know when the duty was to commence upon Irish distilled spiirits. Mr. VANSITTART an4ered, the 4th July. Col. HUTCHINSON then argued against it, as involving in its operation an infringement of the Act of Dion. . ' ' -.i lo