The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-06-25 00:00:00

THE piIATESSIAN. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS. +- HOUSE OF LOI DS, Jove c 24. The Poor Debters' Bill and the Irish Customs Regulation 818 tithe Committee of Privilege.; on the claims of the Bishops wee react a third time and pw•sed. on of Nlth and Kildare, to precedence, the further considoratiun The Loan Bill was recommitted : the Report was brought up was postponed till to-morrow. and received, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to- The Bank Token Bill, the Militia Adjutants Bill. the Militia morrow. Subalierus' Bill, the Irish Glass Drawbacks' Bill. the Scots' Es-, The Linen Bounty Bill. the Excise Bill, the Assessed Tars vise Bill, the Bermuda Trade Bill, the land -' as Redemption Bill, the Addni ;mi Postage Bill, the Irish Treasury Bills BM, 1 Anwndment Bill, the County Rates' Bill, and the Pour Deators' and the Irish Batter Bill, were severally read a second time, Relief Bill, were brought up from the Commons by Mr. bush- and ordered to he committed to-morrow. ington, Mr. Lygon, Mr. Wortley, and other Ntembers, nod te•td I The Southeni Whale Fishery Bill, and the West India Li t fist time. and the Reports ordered On the third reading of the Margate Pier Bill, Lord It EDF:S- e t o el b e ices e k ß e il i i 4d we to.. nt m th o r mow olligh , Cauunittee4 ' DALE moved to strike out a chime which Motion, alter some i Lord .1 twELIT N reported, that the Prince Regent , pursuant observations from ford She ffi eld an d the Earl of Liverpool, was Ito an Address of the House, would order certain Accounts of negatived, and the Bill read a third time and passed, and sent ; i Disbursements from the Civil I , ist to be laid before it. lack to the Commons with Ameadinents. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. In the Appeal " Lord Waterpark e. Austin," the Decree of . The House ;went into a Committee of Supply, when Mr. the Court of Chancery in Ireland was affirmed. i Wellesley Pole, Mr. Rose, and Mr. Wharton, moved Resolve A conference took place with tire Commons by desire of the lions voting the following sums : Lords on the subject matter of the last conference. X 1,4 i 6.000 for Irish Treasury Bills outstanding; The Irish Brand Juries ' Bill passed through a Committee with 43,4137 for the Royal Naval Asylum ; lineadments.—Report te-morrow. • 7,405 for the Trustees of the British Museum ; 'the Dublin Coals Bill also passed through a Committee, and 1,000 for die purchase of Books relating to the History teas repOrted. of Great Britain and her dependencies; APPEALS. 4,53') for Printing the Journals; Lod REDESDALE called the attention df the 11,585 for the Erection of Bethlem hospital; Souse to the great grievance arising from the number I Ri des 6,910 othere Commissioners of Public Record! ; many smaller sums a n voted for Mocellane of appeals before the house, and the delay in decidiug my , s ervices. - upon them. He thought it of the greatest importance ; Colonel PALMER moved a Resolution, " that the sum of that some measure should be adopted, even in the pre- 78,3411. be granted to John Palmer, Esq. as the arrears of his per ventage on the receipts of the Post Office." Sent Session, late as the period was, In order that ; • After some conversation between Mr. Long, Mr. Wharton, Best Session a commencement might be made in a ; Mr. Whitbread, Colonel Palmer, Mr. Tierney, Sir J. Newport, a ti ld x fr e . heti Cro ue k r er, th r e eltr o ri n t snore expeditious mode of getting through the ap- t o io t n he w a as tne aer nee eed or to the l'hheanguill'or of an peals. To do this he thought it would be absolutely i reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again. 'necessary to provide assistance to the Lord Chancel . ; w ere Message from the Lords demanded a conference on the ! we ;:b a y pp l o lt i r t b e o d ur u li m lll, re w ti h t iLls to was the a= d to e and be b r i t a gtre for in The Court of Chancery, in order that the No ble and Learned Lord might be enabled to devote Jesrpose of conducting it. On their return Admiral Mooniest More time to the hearing of appeals iti that Ilouse, i reported at the Bar the r esu lt of the conference. ; their Lordships' assmst • The LORD CHANCELLOR stated the great to the Lond e on trto from r ann ounced y th jouraoaseßill, and to the Margate liar evils that arose from the delay in the judicial busi- iltoor Bill. I Civil Sir Cf:: . fil re E l l a V n lV i ß n T e ss o ithd u re e w nee his o r a otiz r e lativeiteln b efore borne mess of the House, and obseived, that he had for borne from pressing the subject whilst under consi- . Parliament, during the stages of which he should have an op deratiosi in a Committee of the other House. The : portunity of expressing his opinion upon the subject. Report of that Committee had, however, now been I INLAND NAVIGATION OF IRELAND.. made, and he must observe, that it was quite imps. ! Sir JOHN NEWPORT, in pursuance of notice, sible for the House to get through its judicial business ; rose to submit several Resolutions to the House on without some other arrangement was resorted to, it ; the present state of the Inland Navigation of Ire being impossible for the Chancellor to devote a sufli- ! land. He stated that there appeared to him that the cient portion of time to the hearing of appeals, unless • greatest neglect had been shewu in this department. assistance was given to him in the Court of Chancery. At the Union, an event that was never referred to Lord ELLEN BOROUGH•concurred in opinion ! without giving obvious pain to the Noble Lord (Cu that some prompt arrangement was absolutely neces- ' tlereagh), the sum of 500,0001. was voted for the pur eery, with a view to the more expeditious hearing of pure of completing certain canals and other works in appeals,otherwise there would heir denial of justice `the sister island, and five Comptrollers, with a salary to the public, and the character of the House would ;of 5001. each, appointed over it. As, however, the be disgraced. 1 continuance of their pay depended upon the continu- The Earl of LIVERPOOL also urged the neces- i l ance of the funds in their hands, over which they aity of some measure being adopted in the present 1 were appointed, they had taken good care that little Session for that purpose. . or no money should be expended in any thing but the Earl GREY thought, that before any such mea- payment of their salaries; so that during 12 years sure was resorted to, an enquiry ought to take place, , ouly 197,0001. had been laid out, 76,9401. of which as /o whether the business in the Court of Chancery had been applied to discharge the salaries of the had actually increased, it being understood that the I Comptrollers, Engineers, and other dependents.-;- number of Bills its that Court was not so great as in j He contrasted the slow progress of the works in Ire the time of Lord Hard wicke. 1 land with the rapid advance of the Caledonian Ca- Lord REDESDALE contended, that the numbqr of Bills was no criterion of the business of the Court of Chancery, which he knew of his own knowledge bad Immensely increased. The increase arising from 'notions of various descriptions, from cases of bank ruptcy, and a variety of other matters. Causes also lasted much longer now, not only in the Court of Chtnieery, than they had done within his own ex perience, but also in other Courts, and likewise in that House, from the practice of a greater number of Counsel being employed on each bide, and their speeches being much longer than, formerly. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that who ever might be Chancellor, it was impossible for any man in that situation to attend sufficiently to the bu. sin. as in the gourt of Chancery, and the judicial bu si.iess in that House. nal, upon which 3 10,0001. had been laid out, and only 20,0001. paid in salaries, &c. In Ireland the public had for two years been deprived of the use of the Shannon Navigation by a private squabble. He thought it therefore high time for the Legislature to interfere, and with that view he moved three Reso lutions, recapitulating the various facts he had stated, and recommending that the Inland Navigation should hereafter be superintended by the Board of Trea sury in Ireland, which had little else to do, and that the Comptrollers should be discharged. Mr. W. POLE very warmly resisted the motion, insisting that the Hon. Baronet had not made out even the shadow of a case against the Comptrollers. He contended that every thing that could be done by men had been performed by them to forward the object for which they were appointed. They were not to be blamed that too little had been expended, on the contrary, the economy with which they had pre served the public money, was highly laudable. The Hon. Baronet had not dealt fairly by the House, in stating that 76,9401. had been expended in salaries — for the truth was, that many incidental charges had been paid out of it. He complained that the Hon. Baronet had brought forward uo particulars, con tenting himself with bare extravagant assertions : he (Mr. Pole) would willingly afford him the means of establishing their truth, if it were in the power of the Hon. Baronet, by affording him every necessary document if he would move for them : if he did not, Ministers would take care that they should be laid, before the country. lie would maintain, against all the world, that the Directors of Inland Navigation had conducted themselves most laboriously, indefati gably, and honourably, and the nation was much indebted to their exertions, more particularly to that venerable and useful public servant, Mr. Sackville Hamilton. With regard to the proposal that the du ties of the Comptrollers should be transferred to the Board of Treasnry, he bagged to state that it was utterly impossible for the latter to discharge the ar- I &sous and important functions executed by thefor mer. He thought the better way of meeting such Resolutions as those proposed was, by moving the previoukquestion which he did accordingly. Mr. PARNELI, contended, that there were no works as yet completed, at all adequate to the ex. pences which had been hitherto incurred. He thought upon the whole, that the system under which the bu . siness had been carried on, was radically bad. Lord CASTLEItEAGII contended, that the old system was inefficient, and observed, under it there had been repeated instances of canals, after having been cut to a considerable extent, abandoned, on account of the impossibility of supplying them with water. Mr. W. FITZGERALD \vindicated the conduct of the Lords - of the Irish Treasury. Sir JOHN NEWPORT replied, and the house divided. For the previous question - Against it dewed with lands for their support, and in Ireland these lands were to an enormous amount. The Poor I were not now provided for out of the tithes. These • were principles to be found in Blackstone and other , 1 law writers. In Ireland, however, all the tithes were absorbed by the incumbent. In England Poors' Rates. were established, a measure which he consi dered as injurious, and which he certainly did not net wish to see introduced into Ireland ; whereas 1 the Poor of Ireland were now deprived of the share : of tithe which they once received, and were even become the payers of it. tie (imposed, if his Bill should be now introduced, to have it printed, that it might be considered in the interval between this and the next Session, when it would undergo the discus sion of the House.. Ho should move, therefore, for leave to bring in a Bill for better ascertaining the Tithes on Potatoes in Ireland. Lord SASTLEREAGH said, the Right Honour able Gentleman had attempted to shake the founda tions of property, by drawing a distinction between i the property of the Ch urc h, a n d th a t b e l ong i ng t o other individuals. Nothing ought to be so little to lerated at this day, as any such distinction between the right of tithe, and that of property of any other description. This was a direct invasion of the rights lof the Church. The Right Hon. Gent. had talked of humanity to the poor ; but such humanity ought to be exercised at the public expence, and not at the expence of any other class of subjects. Ile would therefore enter his protest against the principles o f I the Right lion. Gent. though he would not oppose the introduction of the Bill, as he had in some sort promised not to oppose it at present. Mr. MARTIN (of Galeily) said this was the ! most inauspicious moment that the Right Hon. Gent. could have chosen for his attack on the property of the Clergy. The Protestant Clergy of Ireland were both numerous and respectable ; and as an advocate of the Catholics, he should be anxious to demonstrate to the Protestant Clergy that . he was no less anxious to protect their interests. The arguments of the IRight Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Fitzge r ald) we r e exactly the arguments which had boon made use of in the National Assembly of France against the Biens de l'Eglise ; and it would appear, therefore, that he was indebted to French literature for ali his ideas on this subject. Mr. M. FITZGERALD said, he did not lay down' what .he had advanced on the nature of tithe as . the principles on which he was to found a figislative • measure ; nor did he mean to question the rights of the Clergy as they now existed. With 'respect to the , charge which had been brought against him by an ' llonourable Gentleman (Mr. Abirtin),of having been indebted to FrenCh literature for his ideas, had, he not expressly stated, that these were the opinions of grave authors, whom he panted, on English law, be should have been less astonished at the mistake. He had never adopted French theories ; and when these theories were in full force he had always been averse to them ; but he believed the Honourable Gentleman himself was at Paris during the period of this preva. lence end if he was not misinformed, the Honour.' able Gentleman had spoken in public at Paris, at a.. time when any other sentiments than such as were in the spirit of the fashionable doctrines, would have met with rather an unfavourable reception.—[Here Mr.: Martin expressed signs of dissent.] Mr. W. POLE said, if the Clergy had not a right to the tenth of the produce of the land, all the deci sions of our Courts were not law. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said, he had taken the law for regu lating the tithe on hemp for his model. But the Bill did not affect impropriators ? Did he mean to in ' elude impropriators in his Bill ? Were they to be allowed a tenth of the potatoes, and the Clergy ex cluded, who had an equal right ? The impropri ators possessed one-third of the whole tithes of Ire land. Mr. PARNELL said Dr. Paley, Lord Mansfield, and Mr. Pitt, were all of opinion that a commutation j of tithes was advisable. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the principles laid down by the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. Fitzgerald) were such as to take away from him every hope of being able to concur' with the Bill. Mr. ROBINSON joined in disapproving of these ; principles. Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) seemed in his. new zeal for the, preservation of the right of tithes, to forget altoge ther the Act of Agistment. The monstrous Resolu: tion of the Irish House of Commons, by which every man who proceeded to levy Tithe on pasture lands., ' toes afterwards sanctioned by Parliament under the auspices of that Noble Lord. [Hear, hear !] what were the consequences ? Some of the richest pasture lands Were in the possession of the Protestant ! Gentlemen ; and the consequence of this law was, to throw the burden of Titter - ow therpotatoe gardens of the Poor Catholie_ L fr Mr. M.' FITZALD wished it to be under stood, that the Bill. he- : proposed to introduce was merely groended on the existing practical grievance Lof Tithes. . What. he had stated, was merely in or-. Lderto they •the original Constitution of Tithes, as j had down by`all the law authorities. I Mr. MARTIN explained. In charging the Right ' Hon. Gent. (Mr. Fitzgerald) with being indebted for his information to French literature, he certaiulr at , fixed no obnoxious signification to the words. lhere were not in any language better Sermons than those of Masillon, Bossuet, and Flechier—[a laugh.] The SOLICITOR-GENVRAL spoke against the . principle of the Bill. • • Sir JOHN NEWPORT explained, when leave was given to bring in the Bill. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. 51 Lord STANLEY.rose to move that a sum not ex -13 ceeding five tho'usand pounds should he granted to majority - 38 I Mr. Crompton, for his invention of a machine to fe- On our re-admission, we found cilitate the spinning of cotton. It appeared from Mr. M. FITZGERALD on his legs, speaking on the evidence of witnesses who had been examined in the subject of Tithes on potatoes ist Ireland. It a Committee above stairs, that our cotton trade had had been said that in all commutations of tithe, the increased, within the lest. thirty years, as twenty to right of the clergy to a tenth part of the produce one, and that one-half, or nearly two-thirds of that must be admitted. But this was now the law of the increase was attributable to the machine for mule land. Originally, there was a four-fold division of spinning, invented by Mr. Crompton. tithes ; one-fourth for maintaining the fabric of the Mr. Blackburn supported the motion, as did also church ; a fourth for the bishops ; a fourth for the the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Mr. Davies Clergy; and another fourth for the maintenance of Giddy, when the sum iris unanimously voted, and the poor. Now the fabric of the church was sop- the Report ordered to be teceNed tn-MorrewAis ported by taxation. The Bishops were amply en- day). 0111)ER4 IN COUNCIL. Furl FITZ WILLIAII adverted to the notice he had lately given, that he might feel it necessary to trouble the House with a motion on the subject of the Orders in Council, but observed that the docu ment which had been published yesterday in the Ga tette, was perfectly satisfactory, and, therefore, he did not m•lan to bring forward any motion upon the subject. lit ans happy that Ministers had at length retracted the errors of their former policy, and had no doubt that the measure they had adopted would be perfectly satisfactory to the manufacturing in terrsts of the country. The Earl of LIVERPOOL disclaimed for himself and his Colleagues, in the adoption of the measure allu led to, any acknowledgment of errors in their former pn!icy, contending, on the contrary, that the Orders in Council had been highly beneficial to the commercial interests of the country. The cir cumstances which had led to the adoption of this measure it was not now necessary to advert to. In consequence of the communication of the Decree of the French Government revoking the Berlin and Mi. lan Decrees, so far as regarded American vessels, it had been thought expedient by his Majesty's Go. 'eminent to revoke the Orders in Council, so far also as regarded American vessels, with theriew, if possible, of bringing back the commerce of bellige- rents to right and just principles. If, however, that should be found impossible, his Majesty's Govern ment reserved the full power of resorting to such measures as circumstances might require. . _ The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, whilst he con demned the conduct of Ministers, in suffering the investigation relative to the Orders in Council pub licly to proceed, and thereby disclosing facts which might be mischievous, when they might themselves as a Gevernment have privately obtained all the requi , site information, gate them at the same time full credit for the decisive and satisfactory nature of the j document which was yesterday published, and which he was decidedly' of opinion ought to satisfy the ma nufacturers of this country, and ought to satisfy the United States of America. Should, however, the United States, rot satisfied with this concession, 'go beyond the line in their demands, which the mari time rights and honour of this country prescribed, be should feel it his duty, and he was sltisfied his Noble Friends who sat around him, would also feel it their duty to support the Government against any each demands, and thereby to support those mari time tibias which were essential to our welfare. His' Lordship concluded by moving an Address to the rrinee Regent, praying for a Copy of the Document published _yesterday relative to the Orders in Coun. cil, which was agreed to, and o r dered to be p re s en t. ed by the Lorth with' white stav's. Adjourned till to-morrow (this day). - • - r .. '.l J ~ `l ' 1~ ~i • i ;$ I ;rl' The Report of the Riot Bill was taken into fur. ther consideratirm, when two additional Clauses were proposed by Mr. Ryder, and the Bill ord ere a to be read a third time to-morrow. PUBLICANS' HILL. The House resolved itself into a Committee up ee the Publicans' Pewter Pot Bill. Mr. D. Giddy and Mr. Croker opposed the clau se prohibiting Publicans from sending out powter p o t ; which was supported by Mr. Whitbread, Mr. Smi t h Mr. Rose, and Sir T. Turton, and carried by a d:vi: sion of 26 to '2l. The other clauses were then gone through, and the Bill was ordered to be reported on Friday. In the Committee of Supply n Vote was grwol or five millions of Exchequer Bills for the service year. Soveral other minor votes %%TIP agreed to. To be reported to-morrow. The other Orders were disposvd of.—Adjourned. TO THE RIGHT HON E- MY Lone,--I have a piece of land adjoininz y our estate in Leicestershire, the occupation of w! , 14, I believe, your Lordship will think very desirt de. and I shall send my agent to negociate with your Lord ship respecting it. There is a piec. , of water at the corner of it, which Is round very useful (not to indispeusibly necessary) to the occupier of the land; but as it is well stocked with trout and gudgeons. and I now accommodate some very particular friputh with it, who are very fond of these fish, I am on that and other account,' very unwilling to take it away from them: nevertheless, as I wish the affair to be conducted on " the most liberal basis," I have made " no limitations or restrictions whatever to the authority with which I have invested" my agent, but have declared to him most feelingly and tragically, that " no sacrifice on my part will cost me a moment's uneasiness ;" and that he may " let you take the whole of it i r land, pond, and all. It may sot be amiss to observe, that it is possible, when the treaty with your Lord. ship is nearly arranged, my agent may say, that notwithstanding he has full power to treat for all, it will be most consistent with my honour and interest (of which he is the best judge) to reserve the water; and that to remove the present occupants would be disgraceful to me, 'and cast a stigma on my appoint ment of them. If the negociation should be broken off upon this, anti your Lordship's common sense should suggest to you that it is a concerted plan be tween me and my agent, and you should feel astonished we should not state at once the water was to be reserved, instead of attempting to impose this farce upon you or the world, I beg your Lord ship not to attend to such a monitor, but rather con fide in the assertions of my agent, who will give you every possible assurance upon his honour, and who is the Most honourable man, which I have his own oft repeated authority for saying. It will be for your interest to close the bargain on such terms as you can get—for if it goes off, the re lations of the present occupiers will assist us with plain lying, and will assert, that you demanded they should be discharged without due notice, and should be insulted while they were removing their effects. I am, my Lord, &c. &c. &c. S. T. The LATE MIKE of QUEEAITURY'S WILL. TO THE EDITOR OF THE STATESMAN. Sin,--11. is now nearly one year and three quar. ters since the decease of the Duke of Qt:Etv-at aqd it must he still frc , h in the public mind, that in his will, the Duke bequeathed a -reat number of le gacies and annuities, to different persons. Now I conceive that the motive of the departed Noble was, to assist those persons in whatever pursuits they might be engaged in with money : and particularly thoseia middling circumstances, by his annuities of 100. 2001: and 5001. per annum. But the Duke's genero. sity has been perverted and abused most scandalously, by some person or persons, who have, by one ex cuse or another, kept those of the poorer sort out .of their money. I can assure you, Sir, that although there are nineteen months in arrears to the -claimants, not one penny has yet been paid; and if a person feels uneasy for his money (which I *may call his due), he is told that the will is in Chancery, but it will soon be paid. — This story has been told over and over again, till three persons, who had claims on the property, WI died. I should like to know how many more cl,llm ants are to die, before the money is brought forth ? and when the honest treasesrers mean to fulfil their duty (which has been unfortunately entrusted to them) by paying the arrears of the annuitants and legatees, accgrding to the last will and testament of the late Duke ?—I hope the peiusal of this he the spur to excite some of these who are %tell cumstanced to take up the cudgels in behalf of tliJ parties injured by this system of perversion, and he taking legal means, force these individual, !o pay the chtimants their due, and not let another ! month go over, as the last nineteen have passed. I am, &c. PAY AS YOU 60. Government has purchased the common at Worm. wood SeraOs, consisting of between 30 and 40 acres, and detachments of the East London and Tow , r Hamlets' Militias have for some time past been em ployed in clearing the ground. Several reviews are expected to take place thee during this summer. small encampment (26 tents) has been formed there , which will be increased ; and a part of the R 0 ) 21 Staff are now at the Mitre on the bank of the dington canal. , i '' F 1 ~~ys. I L__ _ NM ,