The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-05-27 00:00:00

ti t I I 114 • • the mere caprice of a commercial company, iuto was assumed. How was it to be known that . ' Whose bands had been assigned the whole property i was au excess of im ? The increase I of the country.—(Cries of Bear, hear, hear!)— c tb a .tv Ittirtyr't a r cli Al id n eed so f The Noble Lord then alluded to the great deprecia- cciati able:. adrift it .;1 ' t i., lto '4l*3 atiloul tion is the value of paper, in consequence of tit Ai tit fanner times. •t'sdirsc 'deism `Mal 'tee bi Restriction, and remarked, that when the value of 1 Means of 'filing a limit to the rssues of the Bank, ar. per ...id rink_ samosa -the. admante44.6l-4 4 410.40 6 6 9 * debts or annuities was thereby reduced 25 cent. Parliament did not retrace its steps, bot•com. Felled the comity', to receive this depreciated money .Itrzl i ! t e lead currency of the realm—an act which rival the'most oppressive tneastires recorded tees... The issues of the Bank' were thereby - Increased femvilittk, mid the wells Mike - filching • werealeiestiaitlettlible: The -nettire•of 'Ai Bank wag 'eei, orec — iiiilinudeistood If it *as imagined that the Directors uttinr' Batik of Eriglaad - were" bound ... a-sto any other 'abject thin the prometion of the Corn.' 't, 40a my 'is interests et told' be , sillptitert 'to Teel ilk Mast concern for the credit' , or currency of the , -aimietry. While he had the • lathe eialkitish Parliament, he lisped he Monad never be iold • idat it belonged to any. other 'peiter or body than rearliament to provide (Or the interests of the State - ale quid respuldieet deirintaidi eclat. Thitrdet, a Neil been well lodged in -, Parliarhent—it would be • rillbestotted if retigned to-the 'Batik of England.— , He abbey/ed, that be could nit bti so absurd, after ,•the great' *Meet of the late war, and after the -'enormous eapenditure, amounting in one year to V 110,000,000 14 .to suppose that the country could,be -11Mesept from feefferings. These had oefOrtunately l'a'ir heighteeed by a season of tattiest sevefrity ; hint he could never attribute any part of them to a Itineration from wet to peace (which in itself he a/iriat ever consider - a blessing). The actual, 'the lalee qua non note,' was, in Me-belief, the suspen. • Moe ' of cash payments, the 'monstrous mess of efts!' paper issues; which - caused 'the depreciation :of the currency of the country. When the currency • of the country is wholesome, it consists, he obserred, ,of three elements—coin, Bank of England paper, ,sad the paper •of •cotantry banks. The Restriction Yoesitled the Beek of England to increase its issues, which waefollovred by an increase of country bank cpper, in the proportion, it had hero calculated . , of -three to one ;—for the Restriction otrcash'payments .bad removed.the usual restraint upon piper currency, • and the consequences of such en enorrischis' increase s apient be easily 'imagined. The Noble Lord then .prayed their Lordships' attention to the evil result- Hug from this increase of impercurrency, in the ex • f tension of the crime of forgery—an evil which claim ,istl the instant interference of the Legislature. if the *tiger statial . by the 'Noble Earl `(Liverpool) were -ten,times as great as •he •bad apprehended, it would be trilling in comparison arith the Ilieckitig spectacle they had ton frequently tOwitness. ' If the esclesive .Circuletiots of the paper of the:Bank of England had .00 other ohjeerine, yet, being attended with this,le (would not say inconvenience, but dreadful mischief, this alone ought to influence their Lordships' bpi •Dion.—L Loud cries of hear, !Mar !j— lle then cora faulted upon the injuries' that 'resulted to society liras the speculative spirit tHe lidcressed paper Cur bawdy had fostered amoogeountry bankets, the issues adiwhose paper bore the'llatbe 'character as those of !the Mississippi; the South Sea, and tiar4assignats of sla'ratice. The failure of several of thetie persons had involved thousands of industrious persons in ruin ) , send caused other banker, to 'Milk 'the issues of their droves to an inconvenient degree, and to call in -,dehts which nether the borrower nor leader had .contemplated the necessity of being so soddenly •fecoired. The tedection ,of 'the paper currency wits attended by a sudden alteration -in the value of property, and caused a violent convulsion which no country but this could have endured. A-, , however, the vast increase of the paper circulation' had raised the price of gold, so did the subsequent reduction of the issues bring hack the gold to its wonted price; slid it *win this state that the Noble FAO said that cash .paymeols might he safely resumed by the Bank of England. He was most unwilling to live under a Government, not of King, Lords, and Commons, but of the Bank. Even if they were'de. sirens of putting an end' to the long train of calami. ties never to be got rid of but by a recurrence to cash pavments, they, ender the present Bill, could not do so till July 1819. An early resumption of cash payment would . be An obstacle against the country banks proceeding to auch an excessive issue, the Manse of such unparalleled distress among all elas , es of the community,as existed two years ago. The evils 'ari.iing from redeeming the pledge given two years ago, if not at this moment, at least much sooner than arras contemplated by the Bill, were slight, doubtful, and problematical. On the other side was theiture .recurrence of nil, already experienced, of inconve niences already felt, and now about to be established beyond the controul of Parliament. Tiro adoption of the measure would expose the interests of the country to windi and waves, till they would be at last tossed ou a shore Where they would meet inevit able shipwreck. A more ruinous measure had never been submitted to tfe consideration of Parliament. The Earl of HARROWBY said, he should 'not follow the Noble Lord, *ho had just sat down, through his review of ail the questions connected with Abe one ender consideration; it required more know ledge on these various topics than be was possessed Alf. He must, however, in the outset, declare, that she Noble Lord bad begged every one of the pies. 'ions at issue. But for that original Restriction of 14511 payments, which that Noble Lord condemned, neither would the country have enjoyed its past and present commercial prosperity, nor have been en- abled to give each effectual resistance as she did, not afford to other nations such means of 'tasistanee v they had given to the great enemy of the civilised world.—[!tsar, hear!]—Without the Act of 1797.,1 it would have been impossible for the country to go on a single year. The Noble Lord had asserted that she present measure had been brought in at the soli-' 1 citations of the Bank, desirous to pay their debts in a depreciated currency : bet no such solicitation bad they manifested ; it would be strange indeed they should—strange they should desire to keep up a sys tem seder which their motives were questioned, and their conduct and character impeached. Neither did the suspension of cash 'payments cause a de preciation in the paper currency : at no one time since that 'event could it- be truly said that Ilink paper was depreciated ; besides,' depreciation was not a neesmry imearateente of an excessive • medium ) admitting the latter to be fact ) which yet Frei SO easy noriber.of yelp! $4,40 yield five per cent. out of tbPir property ro'tfie Bank. might he a,recurrence to past evils. . solven ) cy 'of the' Book of England wjs as lasting as the Consritu. Woe at.lbe country. He would now beg leave to say ti fete tterds on the argument that the Bill ought not tolsesanctiotied, Vail - he extent of the crime of forgery. It appealed from the papers on the table, that .1b• ezeoutioni for forgery during the last 14 years' had been, on. an avenge, 13 annually—no eery enormous number. During the same period every other crime had increased to • much greater event than forgery.; ...and it watt, therefore, too much to attribute its increase solely tb the Restriction on cash payments. He believed the Bank had mode l every preparatidn to meet the change at the time pre scribed by the former' law. T heargument of the Noble Lord, octal. exportation of other commodi ties as well as gold; supposed . in the borrowing coun try not only the inclination. but the ability to pur chase them ; allowing both which, still the quantity of them exported could scarcely be such aa to affect, in any considerable degree, the exportation of gold. —Any sum in specie might be trumped away by the operation of foreign loans. How had 30 or 40 mil lions of specie disappeared from this country already? He had been told by a hanker in Paris, in the year 1814, that no less than six millions of English gui neas had been melted down at the mint there in the space of six months. It would thee, and then only, 'be proper to take away the Restriction, when the fa.. cilities to a recurrence were such that no one would perceive that the Restriction had been taken away, He thought the dangers of recurring to cash payments at the present critical moment mtich ;vender than any attendant on a continuance in a system under which the country had flourished so much, and would there fore support the motion. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, he could not allow this opportunity fur the discussion of this great•financial measure to pass by, without protest ing both against the measure itself, and the unac •countable principles oit which it was supported.— ' The Noble Earl (Harrow by), in replying to the speech of his Noble Friend (Grenville), had stated that his Noble Friend, in touching on a great variety of topics connected with the past and present history of this measure, had proCeeded, begging the question 'as to all the inconveniences arising out of the mea sore. But the Noble Earl, who made this charge, begged the question himself, with respect to the ad vantages which he attributed to the measure. He attributed to it the enabling the Government of this country to carry on the war, leaving out of the ques tion the enormous increase of debt, arising from the great increase of prices occasioned by the measure.— This •nreasere, by the facility of obtaining credit • which it occasioned, doubled and trebled prices, in creased the expenditure of Government in the same proportion, and was consequently the source of ell the accumulated weight and pressure with which the country had already contended, and with which it had still - to contend. In attributing to this measure our commercial actieity during the war, the Noble Earl forget to attribute to it the commercial and agricultural distresi which this system, and this system alone, brought upon the country. With reaped to the narrow ground assigned by the Noble Earl at the head of the 'Tree. sury (Liverpool) for this measure—the French Loan —he had not only been assured, that the ,'hole of the loan would not be paid in gotd,but•that no great part of it would be remitted from this country. He could state from the highest authority, namely, those con cerned in the former French Loan; that of that loin a very small poet actually came out of this country ; and that though British credit was necessary to ena ble the French Government in the first instance to raise-the loan, yet that those who interposed that credit, applied it to draw out of France itself, ulti mately, by far the greatest part of the loan.—( hear, hear, hear !)—But suppoling that loan to proceed entirely out of this country, was it therefore to be made entirely in the precious metals? As well might it be argued, that if a contract was entered into to supply an army abroad with bread or with arms, that it would be necessary to export the floor of which the bread, or the iron of which the arms should be made. The Noble Earl had said, that the export of menu lectured goods towards the loan' had its limits, and could only be carried on within these limits.—But if the consumption and demand for manufactures had limits, and the exportation of manufactured goods could only, therefore, be carried on to a certain ea. tent, in like Manner the exportation of the precious. metals could only be carried on to a certain extent —(hear, hear, hear!)—The exportation of the one as well as the other must'be limited by the demand and when things were left open, the one would serve to correct the other. If all the transactions of all theStetes of Europe were laid open, they would only confirm this principle: The Noble Earl had called on his Noble Friend to look at the prices of gold compared with the issues oldie Bank, from which he had argued, that there was no certain and definite relation between the mines of the' Batik and the prices of the preceious Metals. He bed instanced the pe riods of 1814 and 1816, by Way of proving this. He had taken a period when it was notorious to all the world, from the Bankruptcies in the Gazette, that the issues of the country bankers were very much dimi• I nished, and when the increased issues of the Bank of England bore no proportion to the ditninotion, of country bank paper. It was perhaps not going too far to assert, that the country bank paper withdrawn from circulation amounted to one.half of the former country bank circulation. The country. hank paper constituted a much greater proportion in ordinary times - of the circulation of the country, than the paper of the Bank of England. The inconveniences which the country had already felt from the present system, were nothing in extent to whet it *nub, yet feel. • The system would go on—there would always be some reason for continuing the. Restrictions.— ; Now it wail French loan ; next time it would be some other pretext; but there would haver be any want of reason for persevering in this dangerous THE STATESMAN i r - Ir s• Al ezi - Amnia cash • Thalami -ce were a t t ibpo mi, nt, in t neit is ia `link If might pi.. . . .. gave the Bank a rig properties f I country:C . ' I a su ffi cuen t .of the Bags I"' plats faith in tikeeifisacy of this core Rite the u►y how Ahoy had already increased their i"soes. They had ilterea.ed them from ten million•, ii, 1797, to The F 'of his te.that -operation of. public opluitnt on the Bank, that they wootd trust the finances and fortunes of. the country ; more espeecially when it was seen that the . Benk, at a time when it at teest•crught to have expected the removal of the Rest f ictiona l ..l when it ueghl to have been more:tinder the intWeisie 'of that espectaticin than ever, had, notwithstanding,' in creased its issues, • from 1816 to 1417, no . less than three millions. The Noble Earl had-said that the ankount of forgeries bad not materially in creased of late years ; but be had omitted to state that the prosecutions for forgery had gene bn increasing in such a ratio that Ministers themselvei took the alarm; and did not venture to shock the feelings of the country by continuing the former proportion be. tweets convictions and executions. The **ensure had the effect of giving the Bank a power over the lives of the people of this country, whom its paper stimJet tared to crime. The diocietienary power orproceed. in or trot its these cases of forgery was not with the Offirera of the Crown, but. with the Bank Solicitor. heurfl—The Noble Earl had stated, and it had been stated elsewhere, that the Bank "osier expressed a wish to have the Restrictions continued. He could only say that when a demand was made by some Bank Proprietors that the Directors should call a meeting to petition Parliament against the con• tinuance of the Restrictions as a measure injurious to the interests of the country, the Directors had re fused to do so. When it was seen how motto the Bank had profited by the Restrictions, they might reasonably infer that that which was so profitable could: not be disagreeable' to them. The Noble Mar quis concluded with observing, that he could not help feeling with his Noble Friend, that there were no good grounds for continuing .the Restrictions, and that it was his belief, some reasons of the same nature would from time to time be advanced for con tinuing the measure from time to time. Earl BATHURST said, that the Bank had not spade any application to Government, either for or against a resumption of payments in cash, but they were quite ready to pay in cash if circumstances would permit it. ' Whatever might be said, gold was always exported in an unfavourable state of the ex change,' because its exportation produce:l a larger profit than that of any other article. lie felt confi dent that to sanction a .return to a medium in the pre.' dons metals, would, under existing circumstances, cause a greet diminution in the circulation, and thereby considerable stills. The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, the Noble, President of the Council (Barre wby) not only stated that it was at present expedient to coatittue the Re. striction, bet he supported this by arguments which,. if he believed in them, he ought for over to' oppose. recurrence to payments in veil]. How could the Noble Earl, who believed our commercial prosperity was owing to the Restrictions, seriously wish to put an end to the Restrictions in July, 1819 ? The Noble Earl at the head of the Treastyy t ia well sidle Presi dent of the Council, hiletold • jet time the Bank had exerted themselves in t4king MI necessary put. Aerations to enable them tollijr in cash. • • But what were the symptoms of these.prepareaiuud - kWhen the• Bank conducted their theirs on tie sound print . ciples of banking, the moment the market price of gold rose above the Mint price, was the signal for them to diminish their issues; and they called on Government to repay to them any advances made to the Public, that they might be enabled to diminish these issues. If the Bank acted on these principles in the times of their sound state, how couisi he believe they were seriously preparing to (bake cash payments, when, instead of diminishing their issues he saw them increasing .them to between, two, and three millions? It had been said they had been amassing gold ; but all enquiry into their transactions was refused the this rested on their no satisfactory evidence. What. did the Bonk do in 1797, when it was persuaded that cash payments•is ould be resealed next Session? The Batik Vass then seen not citify amassing gold, but forcing Government to-pay up the seven millions of advances. In o:tober; 1797, the advances of the •liank were reduced to four millions ;" while, from a paper MI the Wile, it appeared its advances to the Public amounted to no less a sum than twelve mil lions lire hundred thousand pounds. How, then, could he think that the Bank of England had been making serious preparations to return to cash pay. tnents, when he not only saw an advance of twelve millions five hundred thousand pounds unpaid, but, by an Act pissed this Session for raisin„ thirty mil lions of Exchequer Bills, a power liras given to the a Bank to advance twenty millions of that sum? So that now, notwithstanding the advances were so much higher .than when the Restrictions were Grit pro posed, the Bank was seers advancing twenty millions more, and that at a time when it was said to be pre. paring to resume cash p'ayments! It had been acid, that there had been nu argument to prove that paper, had been . depreciated. There was no argument to prove this, because it was perfectly atmecessary. . If it was the high price of gold, and not the deprecia. tints of paper which was the cause of those appear ances, how did it happen that gold had been in this' country higher by 30 per cent. than on the Conti nent? How did it happen then, when the number of country banks was diminished from 870 to 620, and the amount of their issues had prodigiously de creased, that gold fell nearly to the Mint price? -----That the reduction of those issues should increase the value of paper he could conceive, but how could it lower the value of gold ? He contended, if a .metallic currency existed in a country, it was impossible that it should be stripped of ita gold. The gold might he taken abroad, but itt this operation would tend to reduce the prices of Consinodities, so it would tend to increase the ex ports to turn the course of exchange in our favour, and thus to bring back gold and restore the equili brium. It was absurd to suppose, when the Bank had been allowed to make adtaticei to Government, that there couht have been a serious intention to tt• isib asthpri lend were to be disported of at his discretion, and the he ulsters would then have either to declare that all the theories respecting foreign loans were unfounded, to propoie a continuation of the Restriction. belief was, that the Mu% had at one time been DT by the Governthent to extend ill issues. The Hoe could not avoid {sassing a Ibll to add a certain nem ber of mouths to the Restriction; on account of tl situation .in which the Bank had been 'pi•Ced by ti Government, but he should, in the Committee, pry pose a clause to limit the Restriction to et= 'eel after the nest meeting of Parliament alio a die to compel them to reduce their advances to Co,,ji sent. to the amount ,at which they *ere in fn. p w a h y e m ir e t n h i e s y de li c o la s r h e( 9 l u t l h d em or se op lv o e s s e r a ea n d a y it t e o ra r t es io u n tae in it Mint regulatio i ns, without which cash paye e* would be impracticable. .and a proviso that the R st riction should he contioued till-tie alteration of ti ptovision of the 56th of the Lotd KING amid, that if the Bill now passe there would not he $, tinting arguments to looks% ti Restriction ad infinitu as. If a ban to be contracts in 'a foreign country, at the discretion of person abroad, was vo he made a reason for this law, wh o might we be free from the Restriction? B ut 1, wished to ask,. whether it was so self.evideet afa .that a foreign loan would endanger the Bank, if cal payments were resumed ?—Was it so manifest, th it was to be admitted on the first statement, witho examination of evidence ?—lt was his intention propose a clause, that the Bank should make no vidend, while the market price of gold was abs the Mint price: The price of gold bad been the ri by which the ' Bank bad formerly been guided thiir issues. 'That was abandoned. They th en gulated.their issues by the.deraand for discounts. I that also had been abandoned, and no role now ivied by .which they themselves. It was wish to bring them back to the first rule he had tot dotted. The Noble Lord concluded by alluding 'the horrid increase of the crime of forgery, as in. - balls strong reason against an inconvertible paper ci The Earl of LIVERPOOL replied, the same pr ciples could not apply to any private bank as to .1 Bank of England, from the Act of the State its appointing it a Batik of England, and it only, of in a nature and under such regulations. Io all communications he had held with persons interest they expressed a desire to have the Restriction ci limped. He never yet saw the necessity of the a ginal Restriction in the year 1797—and he belie' the permanent continuation of the system most in' dons, not from any evils it had yet occasioned, I from its liability to evils. They had seen comnerd *prositerity and commercial adversity—they had se ,agricultural prosperity and agricultural adversity and yet, during all these changes, they found t, bet a very slight alteration had been effeeted in 'circulation of Bank of England notes. He cot got admit, even taking into consideration the print 'banks, that, at any period, the paper currency of! country was excessive. With respect to the (witty of forgery, he would only say, that it . the duty of the Government, and of soy great Ist • like the Bank, to use every means in their power check the evil. But, when it was said that this was greatly increased by the adoption of a *pie° paper currency, they ought In take into consith (ion the evils that would attend any other systes They should look to the great extent to which ci leg would be carried, if they had recourse to a tallic currency—rand he believed it would he fox that very little difference in numbers could be di we red, in two corresponding periods, between per - Convicted of coining and of forging Bank notes. Lord GRENVILLE said, that it was well km • to. every person who had examined the state of country, within the lust three years, that there au excessive issue of country notes—so much that numberless persons were ruined by the fa of many of those banks—and those bankers were able to pay, did so, by contracting, in a g degree, the issue of their notes. This gave a fl cious appetrance of prosperity to the country, w, in fact, it was in a state of distress. The Earl of LIVERPOOL explained. Their Lordships then resolved themselves ht Committee on the Bill. The Earl of LAUDERDALE, in the Commi , moved a namendmeut, confining the operatioi the Bill to six weeks after the Sitting of the Session of Parliament." Lord HOLLAND concurred in the propel the amendment. Their Lordships then divided, whets there peered— Not Contents, 22 I Contents, 9 I Majority againq it, 1 Strangers were not afterwards admitted belov Bar, but, we understand, several other amendn were proposed, and negatived without a division The Bill having gone through the Committee, Report was received, •ud the third reading ortl for this day.—Adjourned at Twelve o'Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS. A Petition was presented by gr. LAMB from same Drur”lane Shareholders. ogainst the 818 pending in diet Petitions from Shitleld and other places in Yorksuire i n the Poor Settlement Bill. were presented by Lord LASCEI Mr. CA LC ILA FT brought its a Bill to lower the Us Rock Stat.—Read a first tome. The Negocialole Seenrity Hill wont through a. Commit was 'closeted and ordered to be .rend a third time toduore A Petition was presented by Lord BINNING fro" Abbott and others of Ileadon, praying. to be heard by Conroel before the Committee, to whom their claims al ferred.—Leave were given in the Petitioner.i. General HART to stponed his motion t o Fr;day. Tlw Ir.sh Excise Licence Bill was read a third tin passed. The Madder Duty Rill was read a third time and Pane The P.scherier Bills' Bill was lead a second time; committed to-morrow. The Irish Treasury Bill, the Passeagere Vessels Bill, each read a second time. FORGERY. Bradbury's Invention Bill was read a second time, one Wows vatiom rums Mr. MANNING. who declared that curity to the Public would be derived from it. Mr. P. MOORE declared that it bed been adopted by Piivote Bankers.—The Bill was ordered to be printed. Sir J. M A CINTOSII said, sisal many pinpoint* had made for wcutio;g the Ptit.lic against Forgers. lie PI; that the C enquire inio this subject sou I appiliutcd :•peedily, that their names should Ise made ,ere course. 71)er ay em gi in. tro#l: dVetrerew the i 4 *IP a , f th is u ge t •as *wit e Ind but be bad no great fa .~