The Statesman. — London, England, 1813-04-03 00:00:00

, 0 , „ Bill, *widest/Mc% he woultilfdelltert foir Itili:iiiii of . the credit "Of l lhtl the principles on whicktheßl*Sasf Gentionnotierhieh he Valued mucle4.4or ter was what he wished the HCostee to consider ;Vey it theanke of the credit df the Reds, which he valued was-tighly necessary thattheyshold examine in hew much more, he begked bins net di be hasty; but to, fa r tbe foundatiou wasj oat, epen Which the superstruc. take such steps ate ,would justify the proceeding. For ture was tribe raised. He therefore Wished that the Acts if the plan were 'adopted With precipitation; he was 116th, 32d, sad 42d of Geo ! , 111. should be considered. convinced that befertletvo years cold elapse, 'the With these Arts, the Bill which had been framed upon House would be celled upon to justify its- conduct in the noel u tione of the Chanorillorof theßichiquer, was agreeing so hastilyto a measure which was certainly 'professedly inconsistent. He believed that there were dubious. He then moped, " that a Select Committee •few lustaucea in which so material an alteration of should be appointed, to take into ill consideration any three Acts was allowed, .without having had the Acts 26th; 32d, and 42d of Geo. 111. passed for some time previously submitted the!Acts to esamin. the purpose of more effectually redeeming the Na. anion. .. He might be told, that in 1802, when &great ; tional Debt ; and that it should report whether the alteration bad been made upon some Acts of Par- proposed plan was just as it regarded the holders of Bement, there had not been any examination of the shares in the public funds: and also how far money Acts so altered. There could not be a stronger ar- ' set awe for the fedemption of the National * Debt, gument in favour of- his motion, than a reference to can be at the disposal of Parliament.'.! , , the ein I e which had resulted from the precipitancy The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER con. with which the alterations in 1802 had been made.--i `tended, that on no former occasion of a similar na. The Committee for which he was about to move, 'he . tare, although very considerable changes had been settl:l TAXES : would 'have composed of the Attoreey. and Solicitor• madein the financial arrangements of the country, R eturns we re ordered of the eperorlation molter i Generals, two Learned Gentlemen oo the opposite had any Committee been previously appninted to in. from the Fi rst . F ru its in Ireland, distinguishi ng gift side of the House, the Governors of the Bank, and vestigate the details of the subject. in 1798, in 1799, anti t h e su ms remaining unpai d f rom twelve of the principal &linkers,were Mein- and in 1800, when provisions were made of a very from loan, : bers of the House. All thatile wished , was 7.t hat different nature from those usually enacted ; and Ma. ch If4ll, to September 1812. Sir Jr. itIN NEWpOitT asked across the table; s twenty-one • selected Member" of the House, after whets laige part of the debt was transfered from one whet h er i t w as intended to remote the exemption considering the Acts which he lead mentioned, should security to another, no previous enquiry- by a Corn fru, tue income tax from Ireland ? report whether they thought the plan proposed could mittee was deemed necessary. On those occasions M. FITZGERALD ;aid, it was not at present . be agreed f 0 ; and whether they thought it consistent the 'debt incurred was not accompanied by any pro. in the coutempla.ion of his Majesty's Government with that g ood faith which was due to the public.— vision,' but the whole burden of it was thrown on to extend the Income Tax to Ireland. Ile must take His own doubts on the subject could be corn- futurity, yet no previous Committee was demanded. this eoportunity, bowel er, to express his hope then pressed' within a very ... ewe : * tames. He then . Themsketten at preleut before NArlianleet must be .t, e Hon. Baronet would support the n ew tales in entered Into a 'detail of the provisions of the decided by a reference either to the wordsof the Act lieu of a p, , perty tax for Ireland , at which he seem- Acts of 1786 and 1792. la 18 0 2, • Lord Salmi - bath, of Parliament, or to the terms of the contracts for ed to be so much alarmed. [A 141 , 01 ti under circumstances of very great difficulty (having the respective loans. It was notorious that no such BM:Aril OF t" •V11. , 11i. I fifty-six millions to provide for besides the loan for engagements as those described by the Honourable Mr. M. A. 'FAYLO : _t railed the attention of the the year, which was thirty, millions), made some Gentleman formed any part of the contracts for any House to flue trial of an Honourable Member (Mr. considerable alteration in the Acts of 1786 and 1722. of the loans. No one had ever, in any former in cl.:prey) at L ancaster, which he c o n ceived was a ,The arrangement of Lord Siamouth was, that ito stance, suggested the appointment of a Committee.— yr lamer; of the privileges of Parliament. As semi 1 per cent. should he established on the 86 millitsos• [Mr. Tierney said, across the table, that he had on a as he was in possession of all the circumstances, he which he had to raise; and that whatever sums were' former occasion, done se.]-lle had forgotten ; the should bring ((tread a motion on the subject. • redeemed by the Commissioners after the maximum . Ron. Gentleman had certainly moved for a Committee. A.sc Vl,Oll CONMITTEE. lof the Sinking Fund, which was four millions, . The Hon. Gent. now followed his own precedent; - The, House then resolved itself into a Committee, should not be placed at the disposal of Parliamen t . and he (the Chancellor) hoped the House w ould _+_ . , to take into consideration the Affairs of the East On the other hand. he had it enacted, that site follow their precedent on the occasion alluded to, A Common Hail assembled yesterday, at Guild. Loa Company. On the Motion of Mr. STEPHEN, : trifling and uncertain eenuities should be taken Iron b, - negativing the lion. Gentleman's proposition.— • hall, in pursuance of the notice which had been bi r . Graham was agairrcaPed to the bar, to give a the Sinking Fund. The course proposed iii the pr - [A ratigh.)—He would now read an extract from given, "To take into consideration the propriety f ar ther explanation of som parts of his former evi- : sent year by the Right Hon: .G attleman was, that lit an official paper of 1807, showing, that the Marquis of presenting a loyal and affectionate .Address to her donee, and was, examined parlicelarly by Mr. Ste- f ou r years from the commencement of his plait the of Lansdowne and Lord Grenville recognised, at Royal Highness the Princess of Wales, on the sub phen. The matter or' which the exam i ee tion chiefly Sinking Fund should be made less, by seven million; that period, the principle which he bad recently ject of &elate!) , exposed wicked and cruel attempts turned was the practice of self-devotion - to idols at - per annum, than it would be by he present sys•em maintained, with respect to the simple necessity of , against her Royal Highness's character and life." the temples of the Hindus; and the probabilitY s It was distinctly stated, in one Act of Parliament, redeeming the various parts of the debt within 45 j The Requisition having been read, the Loan whether it had in any degree diminished be COlliP. that none of the alterations proposed by the Right, years after their contraction. Mr. Pitt had some . MAYOR said, that, in pursuance of the wish which quavre of' the hisertictiohs given to the Magistrates. ' lion. Gentleman should be admitted, unless provision' years before maintained the same doctrine. His he always entertained to do justice to every Wide kb. Stepan% basing proceeded to examine th e witness : was made for the redemption of the debt wit.-in 45 plan would redeem the debt in a less time than ori- dual of the Livery, he should beg leave to read a at pelt length, aesto tee probability of making Coll. , years ;so that, unless the Act was tortured ben mis-' ginally proposed, and that without any injury to letter he had received from-one of the Liverymen versions by sending Missionaries to India, : contraction, there was not in it airy thing whir could the public creditor. The principle on which it was who signed the Requisition. . Mr..IASHINGTON (the chairman) objected to ' authorisethe Right Hon. Gentleman to lessen the Sink- . founded, had never before been controverted—it j The letter wati then'read—it was signed Vander . this species, of examination, as he apprehended that ! In a Fond by seven millions. He should refer to the I had neverbeen said that it was a breach of public i combe, and stated that the writer had been induced these enquiries could not be deemed consistent either ' same Act for the proof that what the Right Holt. faith. The Bill in progress through the House was .to sign the Requisition when the ferment respectrug with the • Resolutions proposed by the Noble - Lord ! Gentleman proposed could not be done consistently actually a guarantee to the public creditor, that the what had been so inappropriately termed the Delicate (Castlereagh), or with any of the Petitions that had 1 with the faith ' which was due to the public creditor. redemption of tire' debt should not extend beyond 45 . Investigation was at its height, but the state of things been received by the nose. lie was 'therefore It had been said in opposition to this, that all the years. It was curious to observe a§itid, that the enquiry pursued by the HO. Gentle. I first part of the clause of the Act which he had men- made by some Hon. Gentlemen between principle quired was expedient (not from any•doubts, _ how. man was rather informal and objectionable. I tinned shmild be set aside. This was , in other words, aed practice . Now, was breach of faith so loose , ever, as to the-innocence of the Princess of Wa!es), A desultory conversation then took place between ! that accumulation and aperopriation were words with. and undeneahle a thing, that it depended on times' an 4 begged that his name might be withdrawn from Mr. Stephen, Sir H. Montgomery, Mr. Thompson, lout any meaning, or if they had any that they were nit". ind circumstances ? He contended that the plait the . Requisition.—[Hisses.] Mr. Robinson,* Mi:ll.eickhart, and some others. ;deserving of attention, because the redemption of : which he had submitted to Parliament involved no ' The Loan MAYoa said, tnat not being at Liberty -Lord .CASTLEREAGII (haviug s just come to the' the debt, 'Within 15 years, was all that was neces- ! breach of faith ; but he would not consent t o the to withdraw the name in q uestion from the Requi- Bruise) said, that he was hostile to this course of en- i sup He could net recollect any thing which was appointment of a Committee, for the purpose of en- ' shim), he had deemed it his duty to have the letter -quiry, as he supposed it would toad to nothing else i recorded in any speech in Parliament, which could deavoutieg to discover whether by. possibility any 1 read.—L4pplause.l . but a west,' of the time of the House. I authorize such construction of the Act ; but he doubta could be suggested on points, respecting !: Mr. Alderman WooD thee came forward, and ad. After a few words from Mr. Wilberforce, and the' well remembered how much had been said in praise i which Parliament had already unequivocally decided. , dressed the Hall. lie said. that in offering to them a Cheietwan, iof accumulation, and that its consequence would be i Adverting to the plan detailed recently by an lion. I motion for presenting an Address to her Royal liih- Sir H. MONTGOMERY said, he meant to bring tto lower rite interest in the four or five per cent. • Friond of. his (Mr. Iluskisson), namely; that the ness the Princess of Wales, he only regretted his fornaitt Som - Resolution for securing to the natives Funds. The argument which it was necessary- loan of the present year should be charged on the . inability to do justice to the cause, which-he shluld their on it religion. for the Honourable Gentleman to hold in Sinking fond ; making good the deficiency thus oc- : have wished to have fallen into abler hands. Mech . Mr. PETE 3. MOORF, was aga i ns t all interfer- support of his measure was, that the redemp- casioned in the Sinking Fund from the War Taxes, pains had been taken to put a stop to any proceed ence with the Religion of the Hindoos. Their pre_ tion within fotty-five years was all that was he observed, that his lion. Friend went out of his way ings in this case, and he had been astoni,hed. at judices on this subject, he said were so strong, that to be looked to, and that compound interest was not !to recommend a breach of faith (as the Right Hon. the number of applications, with that view, he had such iuterference would lead to a general massacre. to be regarded. Yet, in all the resolieions of the ! Gentleman would, he presumed, term it), but of a . received both from the City and the 'West-end of flee ' Talking on the subject when he was in India, to a House upon that subject, the accumulation at corn- breach of faith. unaccompanied with any compensat. : Town, from persons whose motives for so (Wag he well-informed Brahmin, he told hint that any liber- pound interest was mentioned as the sine qua non of ing advantages. If the Right Hon. Gentleman's ! could not guess at. He had another ground of corn ties mighi he taken with their properties, but that the Sinking Fund ; and the Right lion. Gentleman 1 were good for any thing, it must establish the fact !plaint in the conduct, which had been the cause they ought to allow a poor Brahmin to worship G"d was the very - first person who had broached any doe- ' that the public creditor would be placed in a worse that there was present a less numerous nteeti g than i n his owe way. If Gentlemen were determined to trine to the contrary. The tUght Hon. Gentleman i situation by the new measure than he would have he could have wished. He had called oft tae Lard p rsis• in this enquiry on religious subject, it ought laid his hand upon the increasing velocity with which .• been in had no alteration been proposed. But this : Mayor last Saturday with the view of receiving his • to be referred to a secret Committee. the Sinking Fund was to act, and said that in his was not the case. To prove this, he entered into a ' Lordship's determination 'on the assembling of the Mr. STEPHEN explained. opinion it was quite enough if provision was made variety of details, and insisted on the superiority of present Hall ;—lte•lead called again on Monday, and Mr. THOM NON suggested the propriety of for the redemption of the debt w ithin 45 years. Ml' advantage which the immediate grant of 900,0001.' on Tuesday, and his Lordship ,had desired him not etrik'eg out front the minutes of evidence, all the j this was to be agreed t o , without • ten Members in would give the public creditor over the remote and to call on Wednesday; and he had learned by Red questions and answers relating to this part of the es- 1 the House who had made themselves masters of the contingent benefit of which the existing syStem held dent, by a note at bis. Counting-house, that the Hall amiaation. I nature and importance of those Acts to the over-, out to hiM the expectation. By the enactments of was summoned for that day. .It had been so ma- Mr'. TIERNEY could not approve of this with- ! throw o f w hi c h th e y were about to accede. It was the year 1802, the redemption of the debt might be staged, that the Liverymen could not have had more out further consideration. He wished to have the i certainly a very fine thing to think that, by - acceding protracted to the year 1835. By the proposed mea- ' than a day's notice. He (Mr. Wood) had wanted witness now. dismissed. Ito the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman, they would : sure, it must be effected by the year 1830. The a full Common Hall,. to know whether the Princess • . Sir 11 1 MONTGOMfRY wished to put only one! preient the necessity daily additional taxes for the' principle of his plan had rec&ved the sanction of of Wales wa s n ot to be ' cherished b y the City .of • Onestion.tO the witness, ' , relative, namely, to the po- tort year ; but they on ht t o recollect that, in . Mr. Pitt, the illustrious author•of the Sinking Fund ; London, and in this he had b ee n disa p oinled, and I lilies' effects of the proposed Church Establishment order to prevent additi ona l t axe s, it was ' neces- it had received the sanction of Lord Henry Petty and he was eqnally . tertain, that in their voting with hint for hail, me n tioned i n th e R e e t entions. • This having ! sary to procure from some .other scarce a sum. Lord Grenville; authorities inferior only to that of heshould not be-disappointed. It had been rumour. been received, with some marks of disapprobation, equivalent to those taxes, - the necessity of which Mr. Pitt. • lie concluded by repeating his dissent ed, that many of his political friends 'who' usually Mr. CANNING sail, th a t e ith er - the Resolution iit was wished to sUperSede: Was it fair to spare from the. Motion; declaring that he could not sit voted with him had Intended not to act with him:on referred to must he withdrawn by the Noble Lord, Ain order to -take from B, with Whom a special , down without congratidating the House on having this occasion;—this had been said in the one se q. or that the,ques . tion must he a ll o wed. Were the Re- : agreement had been Made ten years before, that he ' already made provision for four years of war. . tary newspaper which did not support the cause solution allowed to sta , A, it would be absurd not to-i should be let alone? What was said ky thd Right Sir JOHN NEWPORT contended, that-the plan 'of the Princess. lie (Mr. W.) had not heard allow such questions as h a d a f a i r reference to its I lion. Gentleman was hist this : .-44 I find 45 s years went decidedly to th e de s t ru ction of'public faith. .. this from' them ; and if such was t heir intention. he contents. I mentioned in the Act, I therefore find myself at li- Mr. ROSE obser v ed , that the ob j ections Which ho p ed it would be, as in former cases, when, after After a few words from Mi. Wilberforce, Mr. ; berty to take seven millions from the Sinking Fund." were mane to the proposed Mr. Stepheplan, both with respect having been of a contrary o p inion to him, th i • Cunning, 11 ,, c1 n, - But this was not even done at a time when Stock- to the breach of public faith, and the infriefeement bad supported his proposition when ff •nd ' Lord cAsTr..FAIENGH sa id, that he was ready to holders have had any benefit from the Sinking Fund; upon the Sinking Fund, did not apply to the present friendly to the liberty of the people. as ithdraw the Iteselution in question, to save the on the con t rar y, it was done at a time w he n they measure with more peculiar force. than to several at present they would also .come lot . tae of the blouse; and b ecause he , thought that not only had no benefit, .but when they actually suf- former instances: They might have been made, and themselves .friendvto justite.aitd- some better mode for examining that subject might ee r ed a e ns . H e c ou ld say more on the'' su bj ec t, b u t in fact, they were made to the measures of 'finance spiraci. • [Ajedeetel It would, be be hit on. lt was enough for his purpose if he court make out adopted in 1798, 1799, and 1800. The only' quest him to The Chairman then obtained leave to rePuit pro- that there was a doubt as to the construction of the tion for discussion appeared to him, to relate to the they had read t he excellent letter of gress, and to sit again on Monday. in upon the Sinking Fond go into the - case before lb( ' Act. If he had raised a doubt in the mind even of precise time Of breaking , the King, though he feared *it . -41,. ad ism _When the Speaker resumed th e Ch a i r , the CHAN- one Menlhert it was su ffi cient that a Committee an d whether it was now to be executed or deferred • 9.loths of the people of England: '. CELLOR moved, that this House do, on ----- should should be appointed to have the doubt' satisfied.— until 1830. The House was certainly just as come] Wood) had been' always an enemy s ,- .'nnight, resol•, - e itself into a Committee on . thol A report could in a few days be made out by a Com. , potent to come to a decision at that moment, as at by whom it had been written, .beca Deputy Itemen,brancer of the Exeiequer's Bill. . I mittee above stairs, which would satlify the minds • any future period. 'I enemy to•tholiberty °rem:people, y 4 After a few words from Mr. TIERNEY :..id the-: of the public. He knew • that . setae Gentle- Mr. BA,NKES was decidedly for grounding the . , man, trho, in such circumsntices. I 11ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the Sink- . men would say that they did not' understand :proceedings of the House upowthe results of an en- i Princess from .thWeonspiragy l . and :--gF,:nd Hill was read a second timeand committed. Fi n a n ce, that it was an intricate . subject, but quiry entered into by a Select ComMittee. Thetalea- I this letter, whiardid honour'tith to jo be referred to a Committee of the -whole !louse. that they could easily understand that by the sure, viewed with all its connections with the publii : heart. The other professional min • a Monday. I plan which was proposed, additional taxes would credit of the countr y , and maturNy considered ' had acted in a thornier which dicilem . COMMITTEE ON FINANCE ACTS. • ibe unnecessary, and that therefore they would with regard to its consequences, as they mig h t ' but f or the letter of Mr. Brou g haitiphe Mr. TIERNEY, pursuant to his notice, rose to' . vote in favour of it. He would tell those Gen. affect the vital interests of the State, could; in , how the i n n o c ence of the Pandit ; Dove, that a Select Committee should be appointed tlemen, that although the prevention of any n ew his o pi n i on , be only justified by the strong and' shown as it bad been. He cotil4 not 9 take into consideration the Acts 2titlt, 3'21, and tax was a great indulgence, yet before they could irresistible plea of . necessity. The country sal not, would oppose this motion ;— not the' '2d of Geo. 111. On the best consideration which venture to treat themselves with it, they ought to he was - convinced, reduced' to such a necessity ; called themselves the loyal of the day, re was capable of bestowing on the sulkiest, it op- recollect that the plan which was to afford the in-, and he had to express his earnest - hopes that It could do no hurt to any part of tf eeared to him that the question on the new plan dulgence had matters connected with It which 'were means might be found, from the resources •of to show . 'the innocence of the PRI which had been proposed. should be discussed upon fit to he properly consider e d. -- If: the Right Ron. the empire, equal to meet the exigenclei of the mo. of all could the Prince Rege nt be 1 " u sepatate grounds: first, the machinery of the- Gentleman wished to do what-wateonly hicoolittent* meat, without incurring the degree whidt well' nasty/ of hie wife. Hi bad ones likftly it:Via-Nell-am carrying into' effect the OW of his Right lion. Friend.- it was undeniable that while loans were to be carried on lit the manner which the meacure•hefore the House proposed, they would materially in'tpuir the basis, .and sap the foto.. deficits of public credit. Mr. GRANT supported the Trion. Mr. LONG opposed it. • Mr. lIIJSKISS 4 4N supported the motion. Sir T. PLUMER opposed it at considerable ,length, and said, there could he no doubt on . the question of law. Mr. CANNING spoke in support of the motion s conceiving that the doubts which were entertained in that House, and by. the public, as to whether the meisure of the Right Hon: Gent. was not a breach of the public faith, ought to be removed. Could it be done with due regard to thepublic faitii ? lie was not prepared, to say, that this was not the time when the public ought to be relieved, due regard being had to the public safety, and to the vigorous prosecution of the war. Formerly it had been feared that the debt might overwhelm us, but now the fear was, that it should be too koon paid. There was no possible inconvenience That could arise from appointing a Committee. • Lord CASTLEREAGH opposed the motion, and contended that th,•re was not any instance in which a question of this nature had been roferred to a Com• mittee. It would be a disgrace 'to the House, to refer a question of law, or of good faith, to a Com. mittee. ------- - - Mr. TlErtt4glr,- replied, and the House di. Tided— la favour of the original Motion . . 59 Against it . . . . . 152 Majority 93 • Sir 11. MONTGOMERY gave notice, that on Friday, the 9th of April, he should move a Resole. tion that the Natives of India should be allowed the free exercise of their Iteligion.—Adjourned. Inotiiiiiill. 1111111111111.111.1".1"."111111.11181" 44riiiisti.by'xihtill that totnitry was at pleinstio. IF el' ite'd. • ' - . 1,0 rd lw MOWER explained. t BiI,KAI) said; that the Leered] and ~,,i n• ! b y. . Gontferrian (Mr. Stephen) did not . uvider. Him; othtrvetitoVteould have had the misfbr.. tune not to differ Vom' him. He only statthethe, nh lord le•have yaie. that • the present Delusion a mnded &prospect of peace, not that this was the time for,inakitig it Mr. WolltliAEAD then presented Petitions' is fa% nor 01 Peke:from llif•lboUrne, Leicester, Aio'ufgh- . bor,meh, • 1)0rhy; Anelthithrtsr "places: lie sairne itep!ii that ittia--Nsould--elvrayst „he the manner in W Lich, vt hetu-ver tgom the pre4sure of war the people iocreaged distress, their -complaints would find vent end ins,wastquite sure, that•whaterer-might be ditference of.opittion on the subject, they would I a) s meet with the speediest a t tention, thi m o st 0 , 1 ; d consoiat nA, 'gni the most effectual rediess 140 Parliament could afford them. 'THE STATEPIOI:- . . sinterfero; .vithlpsiblio rounded. The sat. Right . Hon.• Gen' ?n they found it . He hoped that orward and ghow enemies to cem. be 'ltecessary . fur them ; hoped • f the Pritecene to 71' not been read AT • Though he (Mr. to Mr. Percival, !Ruse be was an yet he revel oil the et. uIA rescue the I could conipose 1 CI his head and his tR. of the Princess em hononr, - and :he diA, not knave mould have fis.en net rotivite who e Crevrt lemma who yr; Laughing.] the R oyal Family iticess,. and least hurt at the in. thought on pre. COMMON HALL. •