The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-12-11 00:00:00

„• 4 1 1. : 1 i .l ” , 1 t . 4: 41 • 4i, I ~ • r , . ! i • ,), ! 4. • 4 *4' 4i'',„ k t' i 0 ' 4 , 1 • 4 . ) I , I 1 I A P • , tv ' "e , 1 I ; I• t . • • •• • I ' I • A , ) e f r ' ' It 4 'rirP fiTAI'ESMAN: ----- • -- - three Kingdoms, omitting all those upon foreign sir- that all the officers in our foreign corps had only tem. vice. One object, th erefore, was to remedy this con t.l rank. Such as were appointe d iu the' co.l error, by suggesting that a return be made of all the ' imencement were certainly In that predicament; bat Foreign-Offic. , rs at' present employed in the British •as vacancies occurred they were filled up by persons army, eiteierly pee:died. Another motion would be upon whom permanent rank was conferred, turd who for a return of the number of Foreigners who have ' were placed in every respect, op a footing with their received Staff appointments, and a third for a return- brother officers: The Noble Lord had maintained, of e,e number of Officers of the 60th Regiment of that the order was inconsistent with the act which re. Infantry appointed to the Stair, who, by law, were . , quired the King to grant commissions, ainl letters of expres.ly excluded from that situation. His main service ; but it did not provide that they should be d"sign, however, was to draw the notice of the different from those in other cases bestowed, except. Douse to an order 'respecting the King's German ,ing that they were undoubtedly to terminate at the Legion inset-till in the Gacettc, of the 18th of. Aug. disbanding of the' corps at the time limited, and last. It was as follows In consideration of the that the Officers possessing them were not to have King's German Legivin having so frequently 'distio- the benefit of half-pay. Then it would be asked, what guished themselves against the eneme, 'during the benefit did the officer derive from this order ?—[Bear, campaign, but paliieularly at the battle of Sideman- heal , !)-He received this advantage, to a soldier who ca, his Itoyal Highness the Prince Regent, acting in had gallantly served his country, of no small value, the name and on behalf of his Majesty, has been" that when his commission should cease, and his ser. pleased to order that those Officers now serving with vices should no longer be required, his name would temporary rank '.in the 'several regiments of that ; still be printed in the Army List—[bear, hear !]—• corps, shall bare permanent rani: hi the British army, ' and being printed in the Army List, he would still from the dites of theri - respeCtive Commissions'." Ills bear the rank to which his merits so nnquesticinably Lordship thought that this order could be understood entitled him. Lord Palmerston denied most point.' only in one way,-that Whitli the words plainly im- ; edly, that the instrument in the Gazette. interfered ported, and so comprehending it,. it appeared to be with the officers of British regiments, and insisted' an attempt (ineffebtitil it - most he because it was that the scale of, promotion in the German Legion contrary to a positive enactment) to 'ilstroduee Fo- I had always been the same, not allowing that young reign German Officers, perivianently",. or ai Tong as officers entitled to brevet rank should pass those of they should live r into the' Mash' army; the j eider standing,, who had not the same advantage.-L German Legion hat/leg-been enrolled arietenrporar*l The Noble Lord opposite might, perhaps, ask, for' corps. The ilgetruity of th'e ether side alive House what purpose the order • was required ? f t was to had, however, he believed, .discovirect another in- ; bestow a well-merited compliment on a body of meta •I've hr - bad alwre been diva fished grittanty . Lord MILTON believed, that in point of fact, dermau officers had its this country commanded dis lriets, and British regiments; and he particularly ,illitded to Baron Linsingsen. Now he thought this was not &proper employment for Foreign :Akers.— Ire had no objection to their being employed in corn.. mends abroad, but he did not like to see them in command in this country, except in their particular carps. In this distinction he conceived himself founded on the true principles of the Constitution. Lord PALM ERSTON.said, eaplana tion, that with the officers of,;the German Legion, from its-first foundation, their temporary rank gave them corre sponding .command. It: the case of Baron -Lin singen, the command of :the district would have na turally devolved upon him, on the removal of Lord Chatham; but the fact, as he believed, - was, that the Baron never had commanded a district, as an older English officer was immediately appointed to it: he , had only commanded at the depot.• Lord MILTON repeated his persuasion, that the Baron liad for some time actually commanded the Eastern District. General STEWART could not, as a military matt who had seen the services of those corps, remain ' silent upon the present occasion. He would ask the Noble Lord (Lord Milton) why ) when 'they were entrusted with commands against the enemy, they should not be equally trusted in this country ? Lord Wellington had entrusted the command of the light ilivisiOn; which was one of the finest in the whole. arms, to Baron Alien. Notwithstanding .the par« tiality he naturally felt foek.;n4Mtt troops, jet the Germ: we b Lso ert ! .l"tTy . amitiguis,siato.A. ,- --era . terpretation, aad ite - slibuld 'sit' do .in , _ .pope that the Noble Lord (Palmeraton) would state whether hedid;or did'iaot s concur Ia the explanation just offered. '. . Lord PALMERSTON begged that Lord Volke stone would repeat his construction of the words of the Order. . . Lord FOLKESTONE complied, repeating what • he had before said, and adding, that by the order in question, he understood that the Officers of the Ger man Legion were to be allowed half-pay. Lord PALMERSTON replied, that it was not his intention, nor could it'be the effect of the order, to give the Officers of the German Legion prie vileges or advantages inconsistent with the Act, un der the authority of which the German Legion was formed. Lord FOLKESTONE continued. If such were the fact, the order was a nullity, and amounted to nothing—[llear, hear!] —but the explanation just attempted was directly at variance with the words of the instrument, And those words were equally incon sistent with the Act of Settlement, and with the Sta. tete embodying the German Legion... In the extra ordinary vocabulary of the War Office, the term temporary might not mean during a limited period, or the term permanent, mean during an unlimited period: but until the War Office could transform the Eng lish langunge, as they had transformed the English army, the true sense would be perfectly obvious to every man who had sense to comprehend any thing. [Bear, hear !] --The Noble Lord would answer, perhaps, with equal intelligibility, that this was meant a a reward for meritorious service, but what boon was it to tell a man that something should be bestowed upon him, which, from a positive enact- ' milt, could never be realized? The Offieers of the German Legion were all. serving with temporary rank, and none other could be given to tbein. In for mer times, British subjectshad been allowed temporary rank, eithout asceuding the regular steps of promo tion, by which means they were put over the beads of older Office's. Of this fact, Sir Thomas Graham was a memorable instance, hut it was now abelished , in every corps but in the German Legion. In.lBol, they were embodied; they came over iu numbers from the Continent, and this man was appointed . Colonel, and another Lieutenaut-Colonel, with tem.' purary rank,, but they are now ads arcing and shoul dering out oar own General Officers, and taking the . command of our arnds—[hear, hear! from Minis-1 ters !]—one of theth actually had the • controul of a l district. On what authority were-these innovations attempted ? Was it that at the War Office, not be ing able to comprehend their own order, they were i actually incompetent to understand the obvious wording of an Act of Parliament ? Did they make i any nice distinction between what they, might call temporarily permanent, and permanently tempo- eery? Dille oudie• ineatit any thing; it .wae- either ; a proof of the absurdity of the persons in the War Department, or a proof that they meant to delude and entrap the Officers of the German Legion (equally.; ignorant with themselves of the English language), by pretending to reward their valour, but giving theta in reality nothing but empty wards. lie hoped that the Noble Lord, or some of his 'friends, if they . ..un-. del-stood enough of Etiglish,wOuidatleast attempt an oxplanatiets of a circumstance which had exeitedgreat intensities! and disturbance in our forres, the - Officers of which could not, with pitience, endure to see their bard-awned honours ditaregett, ' , Alla ' pletttail 1 Barons or Count's were placed over their 440.= ; After what had fallen from the other side, the pr4P. i sition which his Lordship intended originally te ; have I made on this subject, must be altered ; - but la 'ii foundation fiir it, he wOdld In the first instance move, ! that au hatable Attlee's! tie 'presented to the Prince ; Regent, prayinghim to lay before the House Copies i of ell Orders issued from the War-Office respecting i the reek of Officers serving iq the. King's German' Legion. Lord PA.LMERSTON lamented that the Noble. Lord who had just sa l t &Wien; did not allow Jilin to answer his speech, .before he delivered jt (a laugh), because it mighthave saved the House considerable trouble.' Tile difference was merely as to the inter pretation of werdswhich had became technical, as applied to the 'inilita4 service. Permanent rank was chat sithiCh was • pessessecl. by every Officer In the re, guler 'British aimy, and temporary milk vies such as iwas given to persons who I4d raised bodies of men for the pUblie service,. who were provided with high premier's, without adittecine through the previews PVC 'Temporary molt, thus conferred, applied vil* ie the particular corps, wed did not entitle the lcidrtlduitf either to 6 rrit *reek, or to half-pay. In truth; notiiia4 more permanent had been conferred ge the Officers of:the Gerraaq Legion, than wha; e fag ellewier; and, at' the ';pree - fhe order was' t ., i t ad, the 4 e t •of Parliaipe.ntpnliptVing theei t .waii i r ,i ylot:: It t - ii 111 ti forted t? ?ill .1 3 • - i2il ~',...~,, .d .. 1 - .. t ne l d i n a t impi l er ;o isc uie t .r rikleyaTie consult r l o 'a u r r i se iara t o e o l t d l h t n e :a s ' s ' : men due stetlrweas r s : as than shorterteac, i t t t o o superior authority. The Secretary at War ateseared fonder to look over the Map of Ettrope than the Act of Settlement. Here the Noble Lord described th e solicitude of Parliament to render the provisions of the Act , of Settlement effective, and dwelt upon the statutes fn the reign of George the First, to guard against the appointment of a foreigner to any places civil or military, in this country—makin g that pi ovi. slim a epecific clause, even in every Nat,iratiza. tion Bill. With respect to the desire, or rather chat. lenge, of the Gallant Officer (Stewart) to look to the GateUes,. in . order to ascertain the achievements of the German Legion, he (Lord Folkestone) lied , taken occasion to revie w those Ga:!Mee, be.cause a similar desire had been this night before expressed to him by others, and he was happy to find that i e glory, as it 'appeared from the losses, the 'British Army was not luferier, compared with those high. ! ly-applauded—those particularly-favoured foreign. ers. For what was the comparison ?--Why, let the House and the country judge from a few instances :—. I The day preceding the Battle of Talavera, sir battalions of ie fantry and one regiment of cavalry, belonging t o th e t, er.ndtt ! I.gion, log in kited and wounded - - 14 i Two battalions of the 67th regiment, ditto, ditm - ltil 1 BATTLF. OF BUSACO. Four battalions and two detachments,of the German Legion, ! lost, Eta • • - • ' S 9 ' 0 battalion of tba4.301 regiment , . I rm. 117 1 Qne du, of thelkidt regiment - t T ota l ll , A i I SSAULT OF. pUlMill ftrIBRIGo. titistoss • - *"-i4 .. g 4 -"" ' - -* who ......a sow.iya Anigait tot .4ty, i ...7-- - 7. ~ ,„:.:s.,- .. i rni' av atartee . and discipline : as far as . related to ttie rank they iiis the Peurneula s thaeaWyriniate ,it it wisSimilo..! . . ~ „,, eeservi tE 4 5i,. eA D Ajat were to bear (though not the emolument they were 1 the whole army to say whether they ought salot to : .Brittablariiallillte asa+Wimodell t !. to receive), it converted temporary into permanent t have permanent rank, there would ant be a;_-disami.i - 777,7" .. 7 7 - service. What they acquired was honour, the end tient voice. When he first read the order, he cer. i-as s ,Oa s teee ses or ti d ; e 7 a.,, E and aim of a soldier ; that for which he fights and tainly did understand it in the sense which the Noble Two ditto of the 7th regiment o f n o. n ` 114 !;$1t ... ' . 1 : e BATTLS OF SAl,AllitNe t ll • ' 4 ' ta...ntly.,. -, :.• 4 dies. To the German Legion such a reward was Lord (Lord Folkestone) did, [loud cries of hear : 8:111:11 , 11 , . 2.- do. , . Vie di do. not, and could not be deemed a trifle; it was in Ihcar!] and in that he would approve of it., Rebel truth most gratifying to. their feelings and welcome I witnessed the merits of the German troops is the Five battalions tievmen -tom One ditto lit ef ith - . 2S to their ambition. Those who were acquainted, from ;peninsula. The Ist regiment of Hussars was the no, 3tl of lst Foot • n, • 161 previous unhappy experience, with the sentiments : admiration of the whole army ; and in the deteirt. •—* n t h - " 195 . 34t iof ?the Noble Lord (Folkestone) on the subject meta •of Quarter-Master-General, he knew some ; 581 4 Upon this review the counts* may deride which . 143 of the employment of foreigners for our own and German Officers, who, he thought, ought to he pre-' 77 - 61st • description of force encountered moss danger, suffer. 366 !the defence of our allies,would beaware that to carry (erred to British Officers. Besides great clearness i ed more loss, gained more glory, or was entitled to I this motion was not so mach his object, as at the and diligence, many of them possessed advantages more praise, To some persons he k • commencement of a new Parliament to make a sort - acquired before the war in the Peninsula.- ; of declaration that his opinions were unaltered, and Lord MILTON, in answer to thequestion put to . he absurd to appeal. From those who paid more re. - gard to their own will than to law or- reason—from new it would that he intended to continue the same road he had ' him, said, that he had no objection to foreign officers : those who could originate in Glider_ apParently de. pursued during the last Parliament. If he thought having command abroad, but that he conceived it to (bet their employment was improper, all Lord Pal- be the spirit of the Constitution to object to their - to say notoriously conceived, to invoke direct • merston wished was, that all those who entertained being employed in this country. . • signed, and since. it was issued lie undertake lotion of the law, he could not . expect due attention. a different sentiment should he admitted to have as . Mr. CANNING said, that his mind eras much re. e a vie. But he looked to the consideration of the Gentle. 1 much love for, and as correct views of, the Cousti. lieved by the explanation which had been given by men of that House, who must feel, that whatever tution as their opponents. Looking at. the present' the Noble Secretary, as he, in common with almost difference of opinion might prevail upon general state of the world, and viewing the countless hosts every body else, had understood the order iu the way questions, the explanation of this extraordinary ° that were arrayed against Great Britain, single the Noble Lord (Lord Folkestone) had done ; and handed, it seemed to Lord Palmerston the height while he considered it in that light; it had.appearea der was calculated to do good,—cud he hoped that or of absurdity to make such an objection. Because to him illegal and unconstitutional. The testimony • our having had swept the seas of our enemies, and which had been borne to the services of those gallant that explanation would be rendered effective for the because our small but gallant armies had hitherto men was quite satisfactory as to their merits ; but it ; satisfaction of the army and the public. With this - stood undaunted and unbroken- before the over- would be no disparagement to that gallant General -I view, suggested that the explanation of this night he I t whelming forces of France and all her dependent (Gen. Stewart) to say, that while he viewed the sub- :ought to be put into an official shape , and promul. : States, was it to be urged that we were, unaided and ject with a military eye, it was the duty ,of the gated, in order to do away the general misunder. which the order under discussion had given hirth, unsu pp orted, capable of forever sustaining so un. House to view it in a constitutionallight also. The t i . standings and he would add, the general discontent !equal a cont e st ? that our foreign corps, and parti- employment of foreign troops in this country, „der .ta cularly the German Legion, merited all the rewards the present circumstance, must be considered an ea. Perhaps the, manner in which the debates . i . sf laat• that could be bestowed upon them, no men, let him eeption to the general rule of t he C onstitution, justi- 'House found their way to the ptibllc, trdOtbe deem.• belong to what party he might, would deny—[llear, fled by particular circumstances. 'ltailuef be remern:': ed sufficient to give all desirable publicity - to the ax, heal • I—To1 —To the return ant noticed by the Noble bered, that to that hero who gave , us our Constitu -1 Planation; but be thought it would be more satis• , I Lord of the foreign officers employed in our whole tion (William Ill.) Parliament would riot permit that factory, -especially in file army, to rake the ceursehe military force, Lord Palmerston had nowbjection ; . his favourite Dutch troops should remain in tile ; had suggested. The Noble Lord' concluded with - ' but the dociment last required, he shoatd resist couutry after the necessity had ceased•for their intro- asking the Shcretary .at to say open what War, . with his utmost power, and, he trusted, .that the duction. He thought the Noble Lord was entitled authority he learned that the German (Akers an i , House in giving its negative to the motion would, by I to their thanks for bringing the subject forward ; derstood the order as he had this night eephsieed it implication at least, girt its approbation „ to the em. . but after the explanation which had been brought !to the House? . - ployment of foreigners in our armies, and its sane. forth ; he felt obli g ed to compliment the Noble Lord, I Lord PALMERSTON said, that he had stated i tion to the general - system . on Which the War had but to vote against his motion. that the German Officers understood the order, on been conducted.. • . . • i ... Lord FOLKEiTONE, after animadverting upon I the au thorit y of the senior Officer of the German Mr. PON"ONBY objected particularly to the last # the endeavour so generally obvious of late among our Legion in this country. part of the Noble Lord's speech. lie hoped that young officers, to imitate every thing in German ! General PHIPPS said a few words in justification the House would not on the present, or any other fashion, and, in deference to that fashion, to cast off : of his gallant Friend's assertion respecting theinerits 1 occasion, express an opinion on a subject not con— , every thing English—which imitation he thought of the German Legion. tin ted with the motion that was before them. The ! one of the worst effects of the extended employment, Mr. WIIITBRKAD observed, that this was a I I Noble Lord (Lord Folkestone) had not said a single land the particular patronage of German troops, pro-' grave Constitutional cieeesiolv t en which the army - word about this general q u esti o n o f e m ploying fo- i ceelled to ohs.. rve upon the several speakers who op- were not to decide; be would not, however, have reigners, nor'about the merits of this particular corps , posed his view of the subject. The compliment of trespassed on the attention of the House, if he had —and, tberefera,if the House were to give an. opinion I General Stewart to the Germans the Noble Lord j not wished to advert to a subject on which his Noble upon those questions, it would be upon subjects not ; considered rather extravagant ; but the General Friend had slightly touched. ft had happened, that before them. He was extremely glad that the Noble : having denied the words imputed to him, the Noble from some predilection for foreign dress, S a pp had suf.. Lord (Lord Palmerston) -had given the explanation ! Lord adverted t o the speech of the Secretary at War, fered considerable loss in the Peninsula, and particut he had done, and the matter having be soexplained, I who had taken 'occasion this night to reply to state., larly among our cavalry, many corps of which were he now saw nothing illegal or unconstitutional in it. meats and arguments which he (Lord F.) brought so Frenchi fi ed and Germanized in their appearance , .;-ft seemed that the order was only intended as a corn. before the last P ar lis,ment; But the reply of .the that Englishmen had frequently fallen by the )7 11 41 Ptiment to the German Legion; but the Noble Lord'i Noble Secretary h e felt to be quite ineffective—first;• of Englishmen. In one case,a British Officer, of one (Folkestone) had certainly understood the order in the as to the statement that Baron Linsiegen corn- corps, after the battle of Salamanca, was:near being same way that be, and, as he believed, the public also, I mended the Eastern District ; he Mainstai4d that it I killed by the Commander of another. 'Some ISO/ • had understood it. It appeared now, that in the • was correctly true, that this Baron, as Commander sentation. be, therefore, thought should teems& to language of the War-office, the word permanent :of the D:strict, Ordered out die garrison of I p swich the quartet from whence an .order for an atteration meant temporary. [A laugh.] If the Noble Lord; (among which garrison was some Engliih Militia), in could aliiiii *teed, ~.d he was convinced, that if . (Lord P.) however, had been assured, that on ace i pair to review it, and that heliad.done severer other the mattirWate represented, Taste would not so far count of his services, the 'place he held Should be latitsLi.n" Aluequality ; of Commander of the District . —; • ilievalt -41414 • 114 ans" Las 4° l'''''"" the effecting so 11 permenenfone, he supposed that he tread think 't 4iitron Linsiugen was not the only foreign of desirahle ataohject, The,Right Honourable ,Gentles i it bard, If, at the end of the year, op at- the con'clu- I cer . n each 11 situation, for tliesiCereretin fait sour Or ' imii . ' - opposite (Me. Canning) had so often spoaert i stun of the war, he should be rimored, and told 7 fiate (Whet foreigeers invested with such 7 corn- 4 on. the sat e ; side 'with him, i thet permanent and temporary meant the same things. iliimid.e--Thes was the Atra - gettleinersteutiaged ;. ' mg' lesthim, that he never again .would be surprised if the o ffi cers to whom this order applied, -were: kit it had become a habit - witli certain . persons at finding that after : having laid -his positions in the. and `afterwards voted ! tee' I .ly highly gratified and pleased with it under the :to treat Acts of Paaliaaietif • with` evasion aced, Strongest 'Manner, and in a way which only could s • • . explanation now given, he must say, that they I iediiference. According. • ao#: the" Act ' originallyv be Put by Vitt, he would vote directly contrary to I must /et as diSinterefte ' d a set of soldiers as ever iseestiteting Abe. G erman ,<l n p tg ien i -the ground' the 'opialens iviticil he had so eloquently expressed. lived.--He was . certainle aware that - the word Litlepd fpr appointing Gamma Officers was that from -[A laugh.] •• ' * ; permanent L . . . . , - $ .; .* negatived without could ' not' be strictly applied to any -rilietiaequaietanie ',with the [Omit!) language and • The Question was then put and . . portion of our army, Which existed fro% year itOiiiittrinere, they WeenheatttlerllO diselplineautl corn- a div.iSioll..- .. year by the minim' Mutiny Act; and if there was no I Magid such coepa-e hnt'ilieenertitind oriitility Officers After samedesultery tonver sation, on the Motion intention of ngiviog,t4itie l'oreign - nfficers ceirenand in 4tecliericee can be alleged. for taws's:4'oll4g Such Officer! of Lord FOLKESTONE, there were ordered to Fe our army longer thaii the jieritiskender which, they to command in the .British Army ? Bert the Act of .laidbefore the House, ,e• Return Phad 'been engaged by the sanction of Partiatneut, he Settlement was violated, without any thing like a plea; Foreign °Meets *lO Soldiers serving in Bo r is _ sal no objection to the -meaeure. lie had heard litstaio were other Acts also.. For iostanee, aceord.• intents —a Return of the Number of Fort. gn Or he - that there were many persons who entertained an ing to the 'Act relating to . the constitution of,thedeth eerabaving Stalf,Appointments at ' home, ' showing _ e a the Number ..it o f . aversion to foreign treeps, tied a hostile feeling to , Safenehe, mit - one a 'that gorps watiever to Beive• .nature anti the date of the same—and alt turn of h _ Ouse Geramais; 'he wished' articular) to state that ioutof America. - Yet * the iiiestription 'of the Act Number , of F orei g n O ff icers• in the 60th tegimen t . of be had no such feelings : - . -4/Itur, hcar n—ile had ilia! been wholly overlooked. • 'ln - fact s - one-battalion :.IFOQti having Siaff,Appointments at home, showing heard from t u n ny o eic ee s. et high rauk, that Opole ,ist ; Chia regiment is now sere io lhe Peninsula., 'the nature and of the same• the corps had very highly distinguished themseletteagninal lie did. of mean to find faul4-tysitk -such employment alla IL. MARTIN the enemy, and he felt neither aversion nor diStriist'il that tiottil e--..s o lion . .but with tite, manner of sending Motion of which he had given notice, for the Com. towards them. Nevertheless be adhered to the • • ;' * e• • ..i. .He objected s to the violation of the law:— mission appointing Masters in Chancery to as4St , viii- I • oupostponed, till Mon day , that • mem, Parliament eaght Fenerally to look 'with aWh ~ constitutional jealousy to the employment 'f ' • . of ()reign repeal the law, if found objectionehle, instead •of duties. - „__T• Tali •noS epplicittlou made to Parliament tO the Lord Chancellor in the discharge of his judicial soldiers, esspecially within ib is realm. . .. • Sir H. MILDMAYesad, abet he should vote for the law; and cousaque.ntly - the Legislature, with ordered to be'committed•to.morrow. acting directly in its . teeth; instead of trait* The Household Bill was read the second time, and Om fustian lrfe - hed no Objectian te this corpses co tempt 2—Parliatimee would no doubt, attend Thp Jamaica and St. Domingo Intercourse B ill Germans ; 'but hi objected pterely t rh 5 0,. • % -,0 —0 aimuer in to any ' application to 'remov e a n . exaeptiopalde went through a Committee. To report to-morrow. 714i0they were emploxeo, ' , •.••• :. •• • . laW .—but It . teemed tug .taucli trouble to im ..-r•Adjourne4l. ... gOlo ~: --• I. It , -~ . ,