The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1821-03-13 00:00:00

OM ~~~ M I ...‘46 a • !r T MIN M _ .._ ___. owe i civilf. 11151- - tr. i p ,1 t tt 0 , 7 , 0 "'"..., rr%it woo:. Tiiii ---- iweivitikraithe; buttm ia.de,.Mr Jobe Poring, Ildenese .111peh, terioas ibMlbellas JeOlfors Seth. sled the flenioyesw, let Brie r= j:$ l 4(C/9 _ _ i ilulMilNdesebi tAlho 'flames Sere earn two beers - te peg sac Vries, Asa 1 . ..Mt we 'llet particular** of tine li elf ‘ the piettes wife the gaoler ' . 221/11:17.1b, wets lillastMwE Ol Weymouth I,:r the bee lit _ hoolitre.(Nolorviars).-Aa le the dieser, elm * wee t Messer for Tseetee, eel Sesoomble e a V in er ilish ser,lluid hotted themselves 'Milled .!* 1 ... . \ ilkivday, ft somIJ -he as well for the' Illoseitelde 9 / ifsie. ~- depiseisP, mks tad* meth raj led she jokester's dri ratinitivir of Ableretee, the tortoises *bey waprobtoffilldb 4 . flop, to alio awoke hoseadools neflteass E sser Sher egg**. The tea* beepreed Itlide sodas, who wore said daehatre se , amorsoted toe free to the pee =ralt . • * tbrteroltoys, sod tee sold beef fee the whole wire pre. 'vow, se they were vise es lostediesety to Exeter, it de. '-• (01 8 0 , 1,w . her).—Tho His. Aldermen' • Ars Mod ~' it Wets he hod received Ines Sir foe Perris( is fi r a 4 1 . 11 0 1 1 14 , rowill hi. , Nat 1. With respect 14 ., about es meth w* said the other *Mt was se a biegle words. lie eldest ha the Rirp (Mow, hoer.) •1..1 Ilir.ll. RUNTISH sold, Ail he seirtalely had hewed Ilie bee e be ll i tatri *Pam stet 4J• was, however, ikso Itoisid so we f . erfait os t4 eteSeonst now wade Iry the worthy alessesio; he. believed ii, Alton% had it ' We relied , tat' asp seer prom it might hare appeared otraookoll hiewedilde. that dee Alevines sod two fierirevers . . 1 .1 1 ,1 4120 I I A OW mown ihoi 6e a IL h.—(Mash -7 W . ninon *sashes oedeml impri so. toemmis OP DOPER. qfr.WORTH • preereted • Petit*. from the iceirdweineve of Dover, .essorteisieg of the decay of their L\vies is eaaartmearia of the great quantity of Fres& bees ass. shoes Itairodueod la that town. iii i Nl- WILSIANAI4 supported the Pedtiollollllll9lll gamma , v se the tree of its. seseeeseets. . gea ,.... - 4 to be pissed. !: • - A ' easu Nt free the Lords anesseced that tbele. Lewd- Aim hod mg , Ned all tertian Mill; end russeleiest Mr. tows Driamea k * *Mk II Allowed * •141101401seexs. eased bolero Stair ' famooi.. 9...u510.4.411imi5s Trade. gars we , a inforitted that Stet Imo amid return ell sewer ley ilbearea.:aell of its owe. • Me. J. P. GRANT oared fog as Armes* of the total lissotily of Sr timhe !, bulks, dean, sod hastens, imparts' i nk , & w h o' d final p erway, from 1790 to 1890 ischnive l b , i l iar i n se ng the sever , e 1 quilethlis he each par.—Ordered! • . 2 , 04 CITED ORAIIE. ...11i9 E. WILISON ism Is elk lb/ Rite Hos. Geeing*. f 10' 1 04 1 0 11 . 6 Itirei t o lb/ erretios of the 4 . lst 1g: 111. eel ens* of Amalie? Mace*, for roast i ng stop,. m of of si ee. He wished to know if 41 wee :l e "0„191. of c ame `moment to proceed is all cases :of Ilde kisd possen the Act st ebielt he bad jest named.? If woe, lg=er Nigh! Hen. Goi *dense would not press for oho • ightsisterl by the is edict against Henry Huss. Ile suseasseMpfl Skit this sobjoct had lard attracted the notice of Goversomod arid of those Crinkle's who W interested themselves about the aisle:saris of Agriculture. The general nnOf rented grade awtoug lb., liaboorieg poor would cause se hemmed consumption of 9 ,1100,1041 heath, lly, a romatity equal its vales to mealy 3,01100901. He had for merly, made ea sprits-Wee to the Right Hon. Gentlest's epos skis very eetteet, to knew 'shot wee the determined's', •of Goressigoese as to the right of preporiec pain to he weed 'Ns toffee. The Right Hoe. destines had amend hi., though be did set exactly know the low es the subject, that fleverbeet woo* attempt se proesseep sexiest the reset. in ra i m beam Ado for the cossinplion of the phut. ' rgyenum ansu ronett of the Right Hos. Gentleman be bad saddled the doubts of some who had applied to his, and ' lad *Wrestled, 'Whet Weeding it, to the diMeulties of the i gge r roisere, epos whose case he was recombine. He widetal to ten if the Right /105.Gentlessa intended to rt ,. vied rigorously with the interpretatioas of dl George 111., and if the resettles retargeted were to be esforcid agahut Henry Heel ! ' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER made some reply which wise iselerstood to swain a disavowal of having ensisbed say grossed fir the emiduct of the pliant Ge neral. ' - •tat R. WILSON said, that he had not used the name of `She Right lion. Celine* on the occasion. He had unly we that asinirsaase to the parties applying to him which the fair impart of the words used by the Right Hon. Gentle *he warranted him in &hog. He was not aware that hie `tended oat say occultist fad entitled him to the remarks mink epos it by the Right Hos. Gentleman. •• Dr. LUSH I NGTON ' Worsted a Petition from certain `inhabitants of Lowden, Southwark, and West minter, strongly objecting to the clause isi the Grampooad Franchise Traeger g i ll, which limited the right of voting to renters of SOL said :proving for a Wider eiteesios of the suffrage. s, I R. FERGUSON premeated a Petition from Kirkaldy, esserNsieing of the general distress felt from the preemie of tnitanou sod that althoug Aeronomy sad retreochmeut had bees caiied for by the country, mud recommended in the sp ee ches (roam the Throne, nothing had yet been attempted b y m o wer. in the way of retresebiseat. The Petitioners lamented also the pneral policy and. *newt of Monsters, ...wi l dly in taking the steps which they bad done avian her Majesty tie Queen. He would state, at the samo time, that a loyal at-Weirs had been forwarded from this Wry L ug o. ',treed akWeetlier by forty-sine persons, of shoo seventeen were in tbe pay of Government, out of a parole .sion of 18,000. The Petition which he held in his hoed wee spied by upwards of 500 householders, sod prayed (as the • only means of relief to the distresses of the country) a re. Minims of taxes. sad also the restoration to her &Neely of ail her rights and dignities. Sir R. FSRGUSON presented another Petition from the neighbouring Parish to the above, signed by seven hundred Householders, which stated, that Hoosiers had acted in such a manner as l e A,,frit the confideoce of the country ; and SCOW for ibe disatil.osil of Maisie's, retrenchment in the ~,a pemi l tn, e , me m such refOras in tiro orprtseatatation as would lend to unite the ;chili' with thole who were tom .aronisally their RepresentstiOo• Mr. MACQUEEN said a re. words in behalf of those who had signed the loyal Address"... whom he stated to he very respectable perms,. Sir R FERGUSON admitted the re .:Tectaltilily of them who bad signed she Loyal Address, but cuteM not admit that they excelled to that respect any of those *Lobe Denied were subscribed to his Petitions. SCOTCH BURGHS. ' Sir R. Franutort then rode to make a motion which he admitted to be not very proper, but it was not without precedent. lie wished to withdraw • from the Committee appointed to inquire into the state of Scotch Burgh.. His ressosis for doing so were founded chiefly in the •conviction that the labours of that Committee could never give sat's laeitoo to the public, and still less to the people of Scotland. I - k said this from no feeling of personal hostility or disrespect to any of the Members af that Committee ; all that lie felt wrs en ir rei,oncilable difference of opinion from the imijo of that Committee as to the means most proper adopted.for the renievatof the veryigrest abuses 'planted of. He felt satisfied that lie could do good by attending on the Committee, and that FNof the sm.— _ __ (rowthe Committee, namely, k - 1 o vil m lain Denim!) felt asoriseed that dig lo =srof Semhad would cot be milked wish** of that Comnsettee. The best coweett.fin os ie gallant Cleumal to have taken would have foe hiee to attend the Committee s sod • • brit , lia the mejority of which becomplained t in • • which oonsidenid best foe the r e mova l abeam. He (Mr. Macheuzie) bed 'v o ted feels appointment of the Committee, in order to gift in opportunity to those whip had furnished such nu merous sod grievous , complaints to substantiate their allegatious. He admitted thin the existence of enormous abuses had been substantiated, and he believed that the Committee would recommend reweave* for their reformation of an effectual kind. The name of Sir IL Ferguson was thee with. drawn from the Committee. FELONS COUNSEL BILL. Mr. M• 9.7111 postponed the secossii reading of this 11411 till Weduesday se'imight. nUPPLIIII. 11l thaVrder of the Day for the House resolving itself Mole Committee of Supply being read— Mr. Huns rose to move the fitmohnious which he had befits proposed to the House. They pledged the House to no 'immediate extent of reduction, but only to a pineal principle of economy. He begged the particular attention of Members to this circum stance. He concluded by moving 1. Resolved, That It appears by the (Arial retsina before ifilmase, that the total military establishment of Great .and belied, for 1792 (vitcloanve of the Kam Indies, t a , . the artillery, militia, rued In arises), consisted of 411.474 mai m ilLeamely, of 15,919 (or Great Britoil., Gairraiwy, he. ; Wiis the Colosiee abroad ; sad 15,221 i n Ireland ; mod le total tedlitary establisbaseut ef Great Britain and teirlesd ter 11121 (exclusive of the Ram ladies she artillery, One militia, sad matinee), cuseisis of 51,105 °Sam sad am% saintly, rt,res Is Great Britain, Guernsey, Ste. ; .132,475 is the C.raloaies abroad; and of 20,778 in trekked. 2. Resolved, That the supplies fur Ilse expense of the mili tary establiammest of Great Britain aamd !rehired is 1792 were 9,331,145 L; that the sepplits voted for the military establishment of Great &halm sad Ireland for 1800 wen 9,500,2101. ; and that the Army Estimate. for 1821, sow submitted to the House, au only 133,4981. ken ikaa thaws of 1992. 3, Reiolved, 'That there were Is the service of Great W ham sod Ittissil, m 1792 (exclusive of the regular cavalry sod iafaatry, 15,757 troops; namely, 3130 of royal and- To y, 4,426 of royal wisrisee, aid 17,0011 of disembodied Militia; and is 1821 (exclusive of the regular cavalry and infantry) the number of 125,491 troops; namely, 7,279 engineers and artillery, 8.000 royal sunrises, 61,998 die. embodied militia, and PAN yeomanry saysky sod vo lunteer infantry, being in number a larger face by 132,329 men, available fur paillasse of the Governtsest, is this year Maim is 1729. 4. Resolved, That it in the °pinkie of this House, that, sender the present eiressenateacee of the country, it is rape dime to make a large redaction in the amount sad expedi tors elite military eetablialminest, and to opproximate as soon se possible to the establishusert of 1792, as reeesmineaded by she Flossie, Container is 1817. Lord CISTLII2IIII3I wished to know the easel 4d/idiots of the Hoe. Member. if it war merely to have the Resolutions entered ea the Journal* of the House, he apprehended that there could be no great objection. If the motive of the Hon. Mem ber was to secure the concurrence of the House its any general principle as to the necessity of econo my. there could be oo great objection to that, pro vided the motion were introduced at a proper lime. He feared lest the Resolutions, introduced as I now proposed, should be supposed to bear particularly on the present Ealluistes, in which cue the principle ought to he brought for ward in specific resolutions applicable to the se veral details of those estimates. This House, as it was understood at the last adjouronient, was bound bessifide logo into the Committee on this evening. He thought the most natural coarse for the Hon. Member to take would be to allow the House to g o into the Committee, and there to bring forward any specific proposition for reduction in the items, and them, before the bringing lip of the Report, the Resolution pledging the (louse to the sewersl prin t ciple of economy and redustiun might, with pro priety, be brought forward and proposed far the adoption of the Houle. Mr. Howe said, that if his views were like (bat of the Noble Lord touching the subject matter of his Resolutions, he might adopt the mode which the Noble Lord load suggested ; but in his own view, that mode was contrary to practice. He intended his proposition to hive the effect of an ioe struction to the Committee or a restriction to the House, to confine the grants to the lowest possible scale of expense. And he put it to the candour of the Noble Lord, if the most proper time fur bring ing forward such a propmition, was before the House revolved itself into the Committee, or after the Committee bad done its labour*. He denied that he had roucurred iu the understanding of rut . - feting the House to go without any interruption into that Committee; ott the contr.ory, he had left it to be plainly understood that he would take the first opportunity of bringing forward this very motion. Mr. CREEVE2 seconded the motion. Lord PALII2IIIITON would not eider into the general argument of the liou. Member, because lie thought it not a fit subject for deliberation before going into the Committee. That would be the proper time for proposing any specific reductions. But he had other objections. The Hun. Member bad proposed the resolutions as resolutions of fact, whereas they contained a great many 'instatement*. They stated the force on foot in 1792 to be 45. 00 0. and it was upwiuds of 46,000 men. They stated the militia to be 17.000, whereas they were. includ ing the disembodied militia, 36,000, being an . omission of 19,000. They elated the incieme of regular forces, compering this period with the 26th George ill. to be 32,800 Inure now than at that period. The statement of the Hon. Member included the expellee of the disembodied militia for the year 1821. and excluded that ex pense for 1792. This made a difiCresice of itself equal to 4291. A learned sage of antiquity bid observed, that there.were two things over which floe immortal gods bad nu power—prat events, ail arithmetic. The Hon. Gentleman had assume this power, whith the suc.ents would net allow to RIM •~r~--~, IPS. eliOlisharent of cleiks • -if so, the Hen. S. be epandered tamable accuracy statements ; bet he really thought that the clerks might tete reprimanded for not doing these duke faithfully: Hchad a good mind to move fur reams of the "Wailes and emoluments of the Wbek establishment, in order to render the neglect of the clerk the more coluspicuoes,, as he had no doubt that they were most liberally (" Mar, Iseir."feese Me Minimeriel side ; s. More, none," Paso Me Oppositias side.)—He would con art himself. however, with moving, not for the return of clerks and their salanes, butthe previous questiun. Mr. Hume defended the "memento of his reso lution. He maintained that there were for the present establishments 145,000 men kept iu arms, exclusive of regular forces. " He would ask the House if thsobjection whe'very valid spinet his resolutions, that tVey staled the, tudeame of regular forces to has 64,000; because, as the Noble Lord maintaissed. . the actual increase we' 36 , 000 ? Hty talk ,the Noble Lord's admission. After conteadingtlia hissuktentents were made oat in the most t candialialy, and that where there WAS doubt he had always given it ageing his argument, he observed, that as to an esioblisfunint of clerk., he only wished the Noble Lord was as accurate in his accounts as he (Mr. Hume) was in his state meets, and s economised also; for then. his office would not cat 60,0001. per annum. He had no want of assistance in the preparation of his papers; and- when he had he could get it of a much better quality, and at a cheaper rate, than the clerks in the office of the Noble I.erd. Again. he contend ed. that there were 93,000 more regitler troops, and altogether 123,00 e .men in arm. more than were kept on the estarments of 1792. He in vited the House to opt the Resolution'. es a pledge for enforcing aliononly in the departments. Mr. TIMIATIit said a few words. The House divided— Per the Asseselerat. • ft Apiast it ..•••11 74 aleieeity The House resolved itself into a Committee of Supply. Lord PA Litigarroli said, that he would not tress pas on the time of the House by expounding mi nute details. They would probably be canvassed by Hoe. Members, but as he did not know to what parts their observations would be applied, lie would content himself wish the opportunity of re plying to them. He would simply give an outline for the consideration of the House. The 'windir' features of the present estimates were a reduction of the establishments and a general diminution of expense. They would prove that wherever reduc tion could take place Governmeet had been zealous in enforcing it ; and whereas in a few instances, there was increased expense, the House would give them credit for the disposition to reduce, and consider that in those instances the iecreaae took place in sof eicatasstinces over which Govern, contrel. This principal reductson lied take* place in the relearn establishments. They were set up, as the House well knew, in a time of alarming and imminent danger. The Govern. went pledged themselves to their reduction in a time of peace. They had thus proved them selves faithful to their pledge, and had besides sheen that they were worthy of the confi dence which the House had placed in them, by voting estimates beyond the expenses which would actually be incurred. There would be a reduction of 9,000 men in the vetern establishments which would cause a saving of 144,000/. The expense of clothing had beets smarted for soother year, or the saving would have been greeter. The entire reductions of the land force wculd cause dituuuition of expense equal to 374,000/. This .would be chiefly effected by the disbanding the 9,000 veterans, and by applying the expenses of those establishments according to a recommen dation of the Member for Curie Castle, to the recruiting services. Oa the Staff there would he a diminution of 70001. by reduction* in Guernsey and Jersey and Ireland. Ou the public departments there would be a diminu tion of 17,0001. On the expenses of the volunteer corps an increase of 19,000/. Taken altogether there would be a diminution of 367.000/. On the expenses of Indian troops end the misuse aiablishruents. there would be a diminteitio of 4,5001. On the Military College, of which 1,8001. had been incurred, the real saving for the year would be 2700/. On the pay of General Officers a diminution of 4,5001. Owithe full pay retire ments of mittial officers, in consequence of the reductions, there would be an increase of 45,000/. Ou the half-pay there was a diminution. On the Chelsea and •KiLmainhant Colleges a dintinutioe. Oa the Royal Military College a di aaaaa potion of 9,200/. Oa the Widows' Peusious, in consequence of the law lately passed, allowing them to retain their pensions after martins., 6,000/. The total redaction of mew amousited to 8.800, the conse quent reduction of charge 145,000/. in round nem hero. The Member fur Abingdon wished the House to confine the estimates; according to the @deice of the Finance Committee, to the grants of 1817. His Lordship stated the tota l supplies for 1817, the details of which he recited to be 8,700,000/. The supplies sought for the present year were— Ordinaries L.6,043,960 Extraordsnarias 1,900,000 Commissariat 501,869 B a k expenses 237,400 making a total of about 11.493,000/.; a sum less than the same total fur 1817, by 266.000/. Such were the effects of the confidence which the House bad placed iu Government, by refusing to allow the instruction to go to the Committee, which had been proposed with a view to narrowing the services. A comparison of the two years, 1817 and 1811, would exhibit a saving on each of the items to the following amounts On Ordinaries L.144,990 Extraordiaaries 200,000 Commissariat Expresses of Barracks Irish Illemarrey Clothiag 50,000 • (Laughter.)-01 course he did not reckon this '^~ _ ► ~~ tipense as among the necessary eseekes ter the year, but,there would beau actual diminution of that expense in this year compered with the lard. Ott the veteran battalions before mentioned there would he a saving of 80,0001.; a diminution of 40,0001. on the expenses of militia trainius—altogether bringing the estimates for 1821 within those of 1817, by the sum of 707,000/. Whether or not these redactions would satisfy those who were most earnest in reqniring retrenchment, he could not say. They would be enough, how ever. to satisfy the House that reduction and economy were the moist objects which the Goitres meat had in view. He begged leave to reply to sums observations contained in a former speech of the Hai. Member opposite; three observations were founded chiefly on a comparisons between the Estimates of this year and those of 1799. He de nied the propriety of adopting 1792 as a standard for the expenses of this, and rejected all deduc tions made front such an argunteut. The internal adulation of the country—he did not mean it in a civil sense—made it impossible to dispense with such a force as dirt of 1792. The number of pub lic works erected during the war required additional attenihince to prevent dilapidatioos and expenses of repairs. The. vast accumulation of public property in every quarter of the country. in the way of stores, required to be effectually *aided. The mummies of colorriel and foreign no re quired augmented forces to preserve hem. There / anew.° was nothing in the circumstance of 1792 to make the Estimates of that period applicable to those of 1821. la 1792 the establishment, including officers, amounted to 43,578, according to the statement. But it is not Lir to state that this was actually the establishment ; for, according to the Journals, it appears that there were 16,000 men more than that estimate. At present the establishment of the new colonies is 15,999 men -; and when the House is aware that this is for the garrisons of Malta, the lordlier Islands, Ceylon, and our most valuable possessiout, for which we have urade the greatest sacrifices, which are the most important in a mili tary, a political, -or commercial point of view, they would, he was sure, consider that it Was not too much ; because, although not at war. we should be prepared fur any sudden emergency, and nothing short of this would at all answer for the purposes of preparatory defence. In the old colonies there are 2,614 men, including officers. In the lonian and Leeward Islands, and New South Wales, there has been a great increase since 1792, and this increase must necessarily occur. The pas initiation has greatly increased. by the number of persons sent out, of a charatter extremely difficult to govern, and therefore the increase is necessary. The estimates of Ireland he should leave to his Right Hou. Friend the Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Grant). and he was sure the House would find they were not greater than that country required. les Portsmouth, Plymouth, Chester, Hull, Jersey, and Guernsey, there was an excess of 4,839 more than in 1792. With respect to regiments quartered in foreign stations, he wished to state, that the only way to send out relief was to send out whole regi ments. In every regiment that returns home there is a considerable defalcation, in consequence of which the expense to Great Britain of re6ttiug these regiments is very considerable. It will be admitted by all persons that have attended to these matters, that it would be advisable that these regiment) should come home every ten years; now, according to that system, there should at least 11.200 men go out annually. This statement, he trusted. would satisfy Gentlemen that there did not exist a greater force than is necessary to accomplish all the pur poses that would be desirable. The Honourable Gentleman vitiated, that the regiments should be established on the system of 800 men each. In considering these establishments, three things should he taken into consideration : lit, the regi ments should be fitted up on the mom economical principles ; 2d, the regiments should be fixed, and in their present condition efficient; 3d, their orga nization should be sea as to afford the power, in case of a 'ridden war, to fit them up quicklyaud cheaply. In the year 1792, the regiments barely consisted of 400. They were in fact quite inefficient. When a war broke out they were obliged to send detached companies to different regiments, and, in fact, so low an establishment could never be augmented at the beginuing of a war with say effect. When you add a parcel of raw recruit, to a regiment it par takes of the character of the majority, and be comes, in point of fact. a young regiment. He therefore thought that the regiments now proposed of 650 the most efficient, and lie trusted that the House would be of opinion that the establishments, as they are at present arranged, did not deserve their censure. But, says the Hoe. Gentleman, in some points, at least, it is objectionable—the Life Guards, fur instance. But the House would find that they are not greater now than in 1792. In fact, it become a question whether it were expe dient to have any troops on more advantageous conditions in respect to rank and pay than others. He was of opinion that it would be an advantage to have those troops, immediately about the person of the Sovereign, in • more advantageous station ; sod it would be fur the {louse to decide if there were any thing in the character of this regiment, of valour or bravery, that entitled them to these distinctions.—( Hear. hear.)—The Honourable Gentleman has stated that the price of corn is now reduced to the price of 179 e. That may he, but other articles are by no means reduced in the same proportion. Neither the price of meat. nor the price of apparel are at all reduced to that level, at least as far as lie could learn. With regard to the pay of officers, lie was sure the House must be aware that it was frequently inadequate to meet all the expenses necessarily uttendant on the dis charge of their military duties—(Hear, heor)--and if there were not au overruling necessity from the embarrassed state of the couutiy, be must say, that after • long war, after these gallant men had rescu ed the country by their heroic exploits from perils and dangers, the Hon. Gentlemen had chosen at least an ungraciou• period for btinging forward their complaints—f" Hear, hear," from the Oppo sition Bencherf—anal he was sure that a British House of Cumulous would never sanction such a measure. —( Cries of G‘ Hear, hear, hear." I In 1801 the first half year of the estimates of the foreign staff were 55.0001. ; the second half year 20,0001.; tusking in the whole 75.0001. But Gen tlemen seem to have taken the estimates of 1803. and not of 1802; and lie thought that Gentlemen u Vr,, ‘, s I wouhl perforni their July to that flottie with little advantage if they took their estimates fur the fol lowing year front the year pest. With respect to 1792, the staff that was then presented for never did exist; and unless we were prepared to go back to the old military dpeipftnef or rather no discipline, they mint het - that there could be no fair comparison instituted between 1792 and the present times. Some are of opi-. nion that the army is too large ; others, that there should be no army et all. He did not un• derstand the meaning of either of those two propoa sitionsi boot this he thought, that it would be beta ter to keep no army at all, suttees it could be kept better than in 17y1. There was no order, tin di.- ciphue then observed ; and such was the intuit larny that then existed. that be feared very much if the Honourable Gentlonseu were an notions to obtain the estimates of that day, as they are at present. they would here foond it much inure difficult to see them. The Hun. Gentleman next come s t o d ie public departments, amid here be 55)5 • considerable iucrease has occurred snore 1794. Unquestionably there slid ; hiss a considerable re.; duction has taken place sluice 1814, and if they compared the Estimates of Oil year will those of the present, they would find that there is a seri* of 80,000/. a year. which will 'hew at feast that if there has not beau a reduci toil altogether so great as might be desired, still the Government have attended sedulously, and dune all to their power. But he again protested against any comparison with 1792. There was siothnig in which they could be with propriety compared. The ay-teur sea dif ferent.—(Hear, from the Oppetition Benehes.)— There is not the same regularity nor the same ac curacy.=.(Hear./...Hey.Ok nn credit to the Go vernment for that: if was doe by that House. The House attended to the atTairs, and the Govern.. mesa was compelled to do their duty.—(l - leer, hear. front the Opposition beaches.)—Geatteaten cheer on the oppori e side as if they took the sole credit to themselves ; hot we cannot 'sake brick, without straw, and it was a little too ranch for Gentlemen ti come down to the House with whole quires of motions under their arms—( Henry—wad cry out for account* in a hurry, and having pa these accounts, complain bemuse they are not balanced with 1794. This conduct was quite in.. consistent with any sound principles of ecouotuy. The Honourable Gentleman complaint of the superannuation and retiring allowances as being too large. But he was sure the Howse would feel that some liberality- should be shewn. When we are reducing our establishments, and tarn off persons after 20, 30, and 40 yes rs service, after hay.. ing spent the beat of their days in the public ser• vice, and are discharged at a period when they are unfit for other offices, it would be quite incousistent with the liberality of a great nation not to make them a liberal allowance. The Noble Lord then made an allusion to the Duke of York, who under took the management of the army from the most pure and disinterested motives; and any one that will compare the state of the army now with what it was before lie autdertook the matiegement of it, will feel persuaded, that, were it not for the exertions of thut illustrious individual, not all the valour of Wellington, nor the bravery of the British army, would have been able to place the country iu the situation in which it is at present..—(Hear. h ear .) —The Noble Lord concluded by moving the fine resoitation-.. • "That SIAM men be the 4riediNg force of Greet !Shahs and Ireland, sortseirs of 'Le troops fur ladle sari the Colonies, far URI." Colonel DAVIES then rose ; we regret that in several parts of his speech► lie could not be dis tinctly heard in the gallery. He commenced by stating that he would not deny there might be some inaccuracies in the statenie:it of his Hon. Friend. inaccuracies there were on both sides. It was his intention, before the Committee proceeded further, to move that the Chairman report progress. and that it be referred toe Committee up stairs. It was impossible to asceitatn what was the extent of the reduction that might be made, not having the whole of the Estimates before them. lie should, however, compare the Estimates of the present year, which is in a state of profound tran quillity, with those of 1819—and not with those of last year, which was more or less in a state of agi tation ; ■nd from this lie thought he should be at least able to prove, that the case was such as at least to demaud inquiry : fur lie could not consent to have such large rums of the public money voted away on the mere ipse &zit of the Noble Lord, ■nd by a set of figures which it was impossible to understand, although he had no doubt the Noble Lord took every paws to make them sa clear as possible. It was nut his intention to follow the Noble Lord through ell the various details: but he thought he should be able to prove that a cou►iderable reduction in the army might take place, without endangering either our do mestic security or our foreign possessions ; °revels should the House come to the resolution, that a standing body of men of 100,000 were necessity, still he trusted he should be able to *hew, that on that body of men a considerable redaction might be effected. This be should endeavour to do, and if he succeeded in convincing the !louse that some such alteratioii. might take place, he would at least have made nut a case to justify them in going into it Committee. The Honour able Gentleman then proceeded to observe on the tranquillity of the ccantry. if there appeared a disposition amongst the. people to create a dis turbance, then there might be some grounds fur keet.ing up this immense standing army ; but surely if there were a disposition amongst the people to sedition or riot, it would hove appeared at the time when the whole country was in agita tion about her Majesty, or at the time when the Government of the country was in such apprehen sions, that they crowded all the barracks in the neighbourhood of London with troops to quell any insurrection that might take place. His inference front this was, that the pohcy of keeping up such an enormous standing army was, to say time least, Twit tinuable, and demanded the inquiry of that House. —The lion. Member then proceeded to remark on the Army in foreign station,. He should be glad to know what was the necessity of keeping up such a large military force at St. Helena and in the islands of the Mediterranean. Aud here he would say. that he had the authority of the Under. Secretary of State for saying, that they could be sup -1 ported at a much lower rate, With resl►tct at 111 rel3lll l nty t• be comp no go • siemaithe if 11 011111. • &utast iley, bat' Wedgimlie wet it would im a ileception 111 lis pert is the S e ., 1 immortal gat* ne objeeted,ll arloptiog the ` 116 " 6 "" 4 " 1 ") " gl'e " Glmrhoit , let ""rillisist IkeehmedNie teeefililltiog *beet Irocarerd ' !wimp. bemuse they viers historically untrue. It4eetwelypeiesof the dill. Alt am n ., eta Wooers, if he were Ile assist is he ioferromion of the Hoe. Member seemed to be Peeved of was seemed far thisaty fortnight. 1 naurrea GAOL. tt imit tilltideleive bops of ar! Ibis; useful deficient; "ss little Im am is ud a ig e!olis thi ng , ,, auseqoasee of the tiepins.* before He recommended the Hoe. Member "to dna lir. Aldwaum"llloObormed fir. remewertbl eel Midas Is the Cams from arise NW. stilkklemliers ' Wile mitt". deeper." He understood the . Hon. Member was Alullasasaseamenhi net abject le the modes - Chairmen of • knot ef self-appointed Guenciers. • fileavinamisammengw-___ ...._ -.tie itelleat Oseirel. thoogh he (weld not ap. and that there was • regular miablishment of clerks • " mow. ut obl""2_ ..1,.."'"m.,„ 6 .,.., 1 "."•".... i . : of the nie6m which iodated him to withdraw to prepare this sort of reotioai • if on. the Hon. =- - Milleemidbm the Coeusitlee, Namely, became Gentlemen ought not to be cris ' nkred roopreoible Ws of she ea e r t w itt tire word 14 di mi lta rr 8 . ( 1 . 14V1=9111114/14 felt coeriseed that the for the accuracy of his statements ; bat he really :Mb AM. lie , kW Ilk Kern mid ar • people weskit not be Seillilled with the thought that the clerks ought tote reprimanded for mitedcattbeitmo.' • -ilk ilibilroutrittirti. eiir air 1.a...........r a... • ri.........-... mu_ a__... r__-... .a..! _ _ .._ a -. . ---... . . . . . I