The Statesman. — London, England, 1812-01-24 00:00:00

in itself, was a mere brutum fulmen, and required to be followed up with the calling in the assist ance of a Civil Court. If the Leg islature thought proper to entrus t Ecclesiastical Courts / with that power which was entrusted to every ! other Court in the country, then this circuitous model o f proceeding would necessarily be at an end. When he saw that those Courts were principally occupied I with the decision of causes purely civil, that they ! were completely incorporated with the judicature of the country—when he considered that every other Court had the power of enforcing obedience to its min decrees, and that from the constitution of Ec clesiastical Courts they were reduced to what he would call a prophane application of excommunica tion, that they could not even pronounce an interlo cutory sentence without baying recourse to it, he certainly thought that the Legislature could not be better employed than in providing a remedy for this inconvenience; and should the Legislature so far forget its ancient prejudices as to consent to this re medy, he had no doubt that those who presided in the Ecclesiastical Courts would be extremely grateful fair this interference. The number of inferior Ecclesiasti cal Jurisdictions was certainly very great,but if no par ticular charge could be brought forward against their administration, there really appeared no reason for going into any inquiry of the nature of the resent. He had presided three years in a Court, to which ' appeals lay from all the inferior Ecclesiastical Juris dictions of the country, which amounted in all to 19, and during the whole °Mat period there had not been more than nine or ten appeals. He thought therefore I be was entitled to contend, that no mal-administra don existed to such an extent as to require an inquiry of the nature of the present. The Noble Lord bad been able to produce only 12 cases, from an eiami- I nation into all the Ecclesiastical Jurisdictions in the West of, England; and of these 12 cases, which were all that could be raked up in a period of 12 or! 13 years, six were for defamation, and two were for tithes.' The result of this diligent examination certainly would not lead him to the conclusion con tended for by the Noble Lord. The remedy which that Noble Lord had proposed, he certainly could ; by no means give his consent to. It was neither more / nor less than inviting all dissatis fi ed suitors, and al l ! unfortunate suitors are dissatisfied, throughout the country, to bring forward complaints to the Corn mittee against the Ecclesiastical Courts; it was hunt- , ing for grounds of accusation against them. If the' present mode of proceeding was inconvenient, the remedy was rrfectly obvious, without the appoint ment of such Committee of Inquiry. Mr. W. SMITH heard, with great satisfaction, the rtatements so distinctly made by the two LNirlied Gentlemen that night. He confessed, that when he ' Lad hoard the first part of the speech of the Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Sir W. Scott), he was not prepared for the conclusion which followed I it. Certainly, at least, one third part of that speech did tend to corroborate all the Noble Lord's conclu sions, for it confirmed his statement, that there was something in those Courts which stood in great need of reformation. If any of those Learned Gentlemen were willing to bring forward a remedy, he believed that the Noble Lord would be'perfectly willing that; the reformation should be entrusted to theis t But by whom would a Bill be brought in ? his' Learn. vd Friend beside him (we believe he alluded to Sir S. Hominy) were to introduce such a Bill, so great ' was his weight In the country, notwithstanding his want of experiedee in that particular department, he bad no doubt it would be received with that defer mice siith which every thing from him would be re ceived ; but if the Noble Lord were to originate such a Bill, he would be told by the opposite side of the House, that it would be better for him to let it alone.l If they were tc look to the Right Hon. and Learned Gentlemen who were so peculiarly qualified to carry through this reformation, he was afraid that! they had already so much important business on their hands, that it would prevent them from com ing forward in time with it. He remembered a case, a peculiar hardship, which came to his know ledge two jeers ago. Two poor women, for a con tempt in an Ecclesiastical Court, had been confined in Nottingham during eleven years. lie had been there after nine years imprisonment, and he found' that they possessed a very good moral character, that they were enthusiasts, and in their principles nearly Quaker, but differing from them in some pe culiarities, they we're not members of that sect. It happened that these women bore a dislike to the mode of solemnizing marriage prescribed by the Church of i Eugland. They were dragged before an Ecclesiasti cal Court, at the instance of some cruel malevolent, and bigotted individuals, for living in fornication; ' and bei ng c it e d by th e i r ma id en names , an d re f us i ng to answer to such names from a scruple of conseence • I they were involved in an imprisonment of 11 years, and were at last set at liberty merely because their persecutors were tired of harassing them any longer. ! [Here it was stated by some Member near him ' that the period of imprisonment had only been seven; Years.] Not long ago it had been practice of presl tag a criminal who refused to plead, till he consented to plead. This plot existed till at last a Judge had thought proper to bring about a reformation, and it was enacted, that a ref usa l t o pl ea d w as an acknow- Ie dgment of guilt. What did he infer from this ? That Ecclesiastical Courts ought to act int the very same manner, and proceed t o i n flict that punish- Ineut on offenders which the offence deserved, with oat imprisoning for seven years in the manner which 113 (1 been stated ; for If such punishment were di rll). awarded, the whole country would cry out a .". ~.tinst its barbarity. If they thought the appoint- mete of a Committee had a tendency to cast a slur • "Ii the inferior Ecclesiastical Courts there was a Grand Committee for Courts of Justice appointed every year by that House. For what did that Corn inittee sit? He dared to . say his Noble Friend had no objection to refer the inquiry to this Grand Coin- 1 mittee. After some remarks on excommunication I anti on the nature of the business of the Ecclesiasti cal Courts. be concluded with expiessing his opini- n ui that the mode of his Noble Friend was the best that could be adopted—that all others would fail— and that as they had never y et seen any attempts c lade by those wh o were b est qualified to provide a PT°Per remedy, so yo attempts would likely be made i n future by " them, and he would therefore give his Tote for the motion of the Noble Lord. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL went into a jus-. . •:: •'' •1. ,) 0 , 7 4 Z 4O ; • - ' ~~=--~.~ tIit!STATESIVIAN: tification of the inferior Ecclesiastical Courts, which he contended, in the existing state of the law, could not act otherwise than they had done. The com plaint lay not against these Courts, but against the Law itself; and therefore the more direct mode of proceeding would be at once to correct that Law, of the pressure of which they were complaining. — He did not believe his Honourable and Learned Friend would refuse to accept the challenge which had been given him. There was every reason why the House should expect the performance of • such a duly from his Learned Friend ;.for no man was bat ter qualified for it than he was, not merely because he sat on that side of the House, but because the character he had acquired in the Courts over which he presided stood so high, both among the subjects of this and of other countries, as to eotitle the House to expect from him that tee duty would be well and ably performed. [Hear, hear r] Sir W. SCOTT undertook to prepare and bring in a Bill. . Sir JOHN NEWPORT complained of the great hardship experienced by the natives of Ireland, where the slightest matter relating to the Church was thrown into the Ecclesiastical Court. It frequently hap pened that the party, after travelling many miles, and waiting many days, neglected ou one occasion to attend the Court, and a Decree was immediately pronounced against him. The House would recol lect that it was not long since a Noble Lard arraign ed in the most vehement, and even outrageous terms, the Catholics, for passing sentences of excommuni cation, and yet it would scarcely be believed on the present night, that Members on the same side of the House justify the very same measure, when adopted in the Ecclesiastical Courts of the Established Church. [Hear, hear! Lord FOLKESTONE begged to be informed, if it were the intention of the Right Hon.and Learned Gentleman to bring in a Bill, as recommended by the Attorney-General ? Sir WM. SCOTT replied, that if it were the sense of the House that such a measure were expe dient, he would certainly comply.—[Cheer: from dl sides. Lord FOLKESTONE, under these circumstance!, expressed his intention of withdrawing his motios. He, however, wished to justify himself (if justifica tion were indeed necessary) for bringing the subject forward. He had no anxiety to find fault with the proceedings of the inferior Courts, much less did be propose this motion from nny motives of malignity, which seemed to have been more than hinted at by a Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Sir William Scott), whom he, perhaps, with too much presump tion, had called his friend. Living in the neighbour hood, this case came to his knowledge, and he had felt it his duty to bring it under the consideration of the House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could discover nothing in the course of this debate, which should induce the Noble Lord to withdraw the expressions of friendship which he had applied. He bore testimony to the anxiety of Sir Wm. Scott to redress the grievances complained of, but he had been deterred by the jealousy with which all innova tions of the Ecclesiastical were Anted by the Tem poral Courts. After a few words from - Folkestone, the motion was withdrawn, and it was agreed that the best means of obtaining the release of the Petitioner should be considered on some future day. conducted, the people of that island could not but feel highly indebted to his enlarged and liberal views. Mr. W. FITZGERALD would assure his 4lon. Friend, that if he really wished the support of Irish Members in that House, he must assume a language and a tone very different. We were not to go back to times of mercantile and manufacturing jealousy. The distillers in Ireland looked upon the Bill as a boon to them, and a benefit to the revenue. But while distillation from grain was prohibited in this country, it was necessary to give protection to the English distiller, and this could only be afforded by the suspension of spirit intercourse. It was puerile to go back to times of jealousy and restriction, and augur their return. Lord FOLKESTONE professed himself little ac quainted with the details of the subject, but must think no answer had been given to the assertion, that the Biil contained a breach of the Articles of Union. The CHA NCELLOR of the EXC EQ UER was not surprised at any thing from the Hon. Gentleman opposite, tending to represent the conduct of the United Parliament in the most invidious light to the people of Ireland, particularly as it seemed to be his idea that it was patriotic to propose the dissolu tion of the Union. As to the suspension being a breach of the Union, it was only necessary to ob serve, that by the articles of Union the trade of the two countries was founded on a principle of recipro t city ' • and where would be the justice of reciprocity, if, while you restrained the English distiller in the distillation from grain, you permitted the Irish dis [ tiller to introduce his commodity to the ruin of the other ? The Honourable Gentleman had sarcastically represented him as the friend of Ireland, meaning at the same time to insinuate that he was one of its greatest enemies. Of the justice of these sarcasms, he would leave the House to form their opinion; but he did not wish to be esteemed a friend to Ireland of such a description, as to held out that its interests were neglected and sacrificed at the very time when they were fostered and protected by Parliament. It was unjust to revert to times of commercial igno rance. The Hon. Gentleman had said, they might as well declare that Ireland should have no represen tatives. This went to say, that because a Minister had a majority of the House in favour of a good measure, therefore, any individual would do right to refuse him his support in that, because the same Mi nister might introduce a bad one. This was the very converse of the proposition which seemed to be main tained by some Reformer.,, namely, that you may do some mischief, that good may come. Th.:. Bill was read a third time and passed.—Ad jou rued at half-past ten till to-morrow. CHARITABLE BEQUESTS. Sir J. NEWPORT withdrew his motion On this subject, as a Bill to a similar effect was to be intro duced. He then moved for leave to bring in a Bill for exempting from the legacy duty, all charitable bequests for the education of poor children, and the support of widows ; and also for exempting from duty all advertisements containing notices of sub scriptions, and for meetings on the subject of chari table bequests. The objects of the Bill were not likely to be objected to; and as a clause to the ef fect of the proposed Bill had been inserted in the Irish Stamp Act, the same prevision should be ex tended to this country. Mr. PERCEVAL said, that a man in his life time might give what he pleased to charities; but he questioned the policy of giving encouragemeut to a disposition of property. that might injure a man's nearest heirs. Persons infirm in body and 'mind might make bequests greatly to the prejudice of their relatives : it was not consistent with policy to en courage this. As to exempting advertisements for certain charities from duty, it was likely to intro duce great inconvenience into the collecting of the taxes. Was the publisher of a newspaper to be the judge whether the advertisement was of such a de scription as the proposed Bill exempted from duty ? And hew were publishers to be prevented from tak ing the duty, when no: afterwards accounting for to the Stamp Office? It would introduce inconvenient distinction, without adequate advantages. Sr J. NEWPORT thought the regulations be pro posed beneficial, for large deductions wero made from charitable funds by duties on advertisements : but as the Motion was opposed, and did not seem likely to meet support, be should not be pertinacious in recommending it. The Motion was negatived. DISTILLERIES, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the third reading of the Bill for Preventing Distillation iron. Grain. Mr. HUICIIIINNON protested against suspend-1 ing intercourse in spirits between this country and Ireland ; and called on the Minister to explaiu why he violated the Union, which gu:..-anteed the full interchange 'of manufactures and produce. As well might he propose to violate that article which pro vided that : Ireland should send 100 representatives. Ile might introduce a bill, that it should hereafter send 50, or none at all. An infraction of the Union would take place in both cases. It was aiming a blow at the agricultural interests of Ireland. How was its revenue to be supported, if an outlet were refused to the prAnce of its distilleries ? The jea lousy of England had produced the ruin of the Irish woollen manufactures ; and if the Articles of Union were to be suspended, what security was there l , that measures equally injurious to•industry might not he pursued ? The Hight Honourable Gentleman had claimed the merit of attention to Irish interests ; and certainly considering the very liberal principles on which his adhliiiistration commenced and had been AMERICA. WASHINGTON, DEC. 7.—Yesterday, in the House of Representatives, when Mr. PORTI:R called up the consideration of the Report of the Committee of Fo reign Relations, he briefly stated " the objects anti views which had governed the Committee in their Report, which he had submitted to the House. The Orders in Council were of themselves a sufficient cause of war, with the Committee ; and which causes were aggravated by the miserable shifts of the British Ministry, and their authority in that country. Any man not willfully blind, could see that Britain had not acted towards them even in a manner which ac corded with her own ideas of justice: she captured under a principle this week, which she did not avow the next; and if a doctrine so monstrous were sanc tioned, she would next trample upon the necks of their Citizens in the streets. It was the unanimous ' opinion of the Committee, that these encroachments were such as to demand war, as the only alternative to obtain justice. Their situation was like a young ' man establishing himself in society, who, if he sub muted to indignities in the outset, would have to in cur a double expence of time and labour to establish his lost character. On the carrying trade, the Com mittee expressed no final opinion. It was in their power to harass the resources of Britain, as well on the ocean as by land ; to carry on a war against her coast and colonies at their own doors ; and de stroy her trade with the colonies, by the number of privateers which would be fitted out for service.— They had it in their power to make a conquest of Canada, which, to Britain, was of the utmost im portance; and from whence she had imported arti cles of the utmost necessity last year, to the amount of 600,000,000 dollars, a great deal of which was for square timber for her navy. They held a sword over her resources which would cut her to the quick. It was, therefore, the determination the Committee to RECOMMEND open war to the utmost energies of the nation; yet he hoped it would not be entered ludo prematurely, for the howlings of newspapers. He knew that many of his friends were for immediate war; he felt the indignities of their situation as sensibly as any man in the House, and he would go as far to re dress them, when the preliminaries were settled ; but he did not wish to invite to the feast till the cloth was laid—till the nation was put into the attitude, and a war demanded by the crisis."—The Resolutions were all carried in a Committee of the whole, except the second, in which the words " ten thousand" were struck out, with a view to insert a larger num ber, which there appeared to be some difficulty in fixing on ; the lowest proposition was 12,000, and the highest not exceeding 50,000; it was, however, agreed to let it remain, so that when the Bill was re ported, the House could fill as they saw proper ; more time would elapse, and they would be better informed on the subject. (Ten thousand was an idea quite out of order to mention; they were quite up to the war-mark.) The Resolutions were afterwards taken up in the House, and the first carried by Ayes and Noes, 117 to 11.—Mr. Randolph in the minority. The second Resolution was then -proposed by the SPEAKER.—A plea for time was put in by Mr. RAN- D9LPH and Mr. GOLDSAOROUGII, who said, if they were to be dragged into a war, it was but reasonable to give them one night more to reflect on it. The House then adjourned till this day, at 11.—The House sat but a very little time to-day, and adjourn ed on the motion of Mr. RANnourti, as the Com mittee of Investigation wished to have this day for the examination of persons agreeably to their powers : unless time was given, as the duty was arduous, it 'would be putting a veto on their proceedings.—The House of Representatives has determined to recog nise formally the independence of South America. . i .... . .. PUBLIC POLICE. TO THE EDITOR 1)I , ' THE STATESMAN. Sin,—Much praise is due to Mr. SHERID I.N for la Speech in Parliament on our defective Police, and fly! increase of crime. Mr. GRAHAM deserves all that has been said of him, and, no less vigilant than at tentive, may really be said to be the only efficient Magistrate we have. It was well known at the time the seven Police Offices were established, in 1792, that the. prevention of crime, and the security of the lives and fortunes of his Majesty's subjects were less in the contemplation of Mr. PITT and of Mr. DUN• DAS, titan the patronage they afforded. Twenty-one Magistrates, at 4001. per annum each, all of them indigent, and servilely devoted to the Minister, gave influence, indeed, to the Crown, but no security to the Metropolis. These, with their treasurer, Mr. REEVES, clerks, constables, &c. whose salaries have since been raised, consume no iettonsiderable portion of the public revenue ; and it is really fall time that men, occupying situations so im portant, should not be capable of discharging the trust reposed in them, but better employed. than in granting warrants for breaches of the peace, and attending to the dirty squabbles of the lowest orders of the people--the very refuse of society ; but, Sir, this general depravity that has burst forth on a sud den, with uncommon and declared ferocity against us, is not altogether the result of inactivity in _an ignorant and indigent Magistracy—it flows in a great measure from the misconduct an bad example of the higher orders, a, Lord COCHRANE and Sir FRANCIS BURDETT very properly remarked: and iu confirmation of their judicious observation, it may not be improper to enquire of those dame, who do not seem to know the value either of time or character, how they think their servants employ their time while their masters and mistresses are squandering their property, and sometimes the property of others, at clubs and routs ?—One of those indefatigable card-players, who does not know the luxury of passing an evening at home the whole winter, except once or twice when her rooms are thrown Open for her friends, as she calls them, boasted to me lately, that she had been at three parties, and might have been at a fourth, in one night—that though she was seldom in bed before two, she made it a practice never to be later than five ; and as this mode of existence prevails very generally at the west end of the town, and in this parish (Mary-le-bonne) I leave you to judge, Sir, of the morals of servants, who may be said to par take of this senseless vagrant life of extensive folly and disreputable dissipation. I ask you, for the Lady to whom I allude could not give me an answer without blushing, how you think the servants on these pisidatory excursions (I mean the coachmen I and footmen) are occupied, while their mis tresses are at the card-table ; and in what man ner the abigails at home amuse themselves in the I absence of the rest of the family ? These ques tions have no affinity to an impertinent desire to enquire into the little histories of private families.— No , Sir ) the question relates solely to morals, and to the fair inferences which may be drawn from women of fortune, no matter how these fortunes were ac quired, gadding about from square to square, and from house to house, paying idle ceremonious visits in the forenoons, which ought to be devoted to the in struction of their daughters, and to the management of their domestic concerns, while at night they are flying,as soon as the clock strikes eight or nine, when they ought to be preparing for supper and bed, to card parties, to " undo or be undone." I knew a poor dame of quality, mere attached to her title than her character, with scarcely pence enough to Cud her bread and cheese for dinner, frequenting routs for no other purpose than to hear herself announced, and whose meanness being equal to her pride, always engaged some servant, unknown to his master, to come and take her home in his master's carriage before the horses were put up. Let your Readers peruse tl is letter with attention, and put to themselves the ques tions I have put to you, and they will find in an an swer to those question a solution for the profligacy and dishonesty that prevails amongst the lower orders of the people, and which Mr. PERCEVAL, who, as a lawyer, must have been benefited by the vices of the age, treats as a matter of course, in much the same easy manner in which he had the impertinence, or ra ther indecency, to justify Ministers for selling bo roughs and bringing a spurious breed into Parlia ment. I wonder how this Gentleman would like a spurious breed to be brought into his family ; and surely, Sir, our House of Commons should be pre served as chaste as our wives, whatever a corrupt Administration may say to the contrary , A FRIEND TO PEACE AND GOOl Harley-street, Jan. 19. 1812. COMPARATIVE VELOCITIES.—ACCOrdiI Bradley, an undulation of light reaches .from the sun (a distance of 191,43' 1,010,771,520 feet), in one second of motion eeZound Is found to be 1130 feet period. The velocity of lightning is English miles in a second; and that of which tears up trees and carries buildings is 100 miles in an hour. According to the ' tion of Cepede, the great northern whale rate of thirty-three feet in a second, at , might go round the globe, in the direction equator, in 564, hours or forty-seven days ; is so inferior in the velocity of his movements, to traverse a space equal to the circumference globe, would cost him three hours of hard • every day for seven years. ..• „,., • 4 ° •, i . I 1 ,• i .• •.. ill i • , 4 ; i ,• NI ,•..k, l( 1 So.. WO %eV • • r V 1 0 D MORALS. ding to Dr. hes the earth t 34 miles, or time. The et in the same equal to 23 f a hurricane, ings before , it, the computs- ! swims at the which rate he !ction of the s ; while MR ►ementa, that e ' 4 erence of the taml walking, 0 4 it, 1114'1%