The Statesman. — London, England, 1818-04-28 00:00:00

• • • 1 iil i.' , 1 Li t ' , ppor-, - ,f p ' `: 4 - certainly be more advantsgeonsly discussed tare occasion. No particular jealousy of eters witit excited respecting the use of pe:. appointing Commissioners: but in the precedent Bill had co ntained the rumination of the sinners. He did not mean to say that, 13111,, a - Cormirito should be _proposed of the Iloosti TAW' than by soother: but sly that we 01011000.4.-- who was not wade of materials able and sr i proposty divided into thee per% so :that each Coo._ Might set by himseff,lied that not one of thiM b**elPher. That sioold.. be the bast wey.t thee meseere effectual detecting abase, • 'Fh. Mee t ha& heard the in Berkshire alone the fend, for thee charities amousted to 20,0041. a year, whervers only WOOL a year found its wet 4w She pee. prises it.'was intended for. Fifteen tiewatid poundit', a. Jean were *belly unaccounted foe; secueding .1a I at* erptirtatidit. To show the insol,leiency of o#' Act wrdOksag retiree, the amount was, staked ist wW, pearit lacrosse than 70001. It was worthy of-ob. slOtiPlit.ll,llolthe,,otrict swig which was instl. W ;two Imre ego, bad Ise& the beneicial af ect. as eetellerl Iselbasievekoloatertalned the gemitestaversion *ifs fa s i l ,itietieg ill theta sespicions:o 4 der which eaawy.'oll time public establishments previously la bnirrlid. %ch i t result Satisfactorily proved. that there was no ground for entertaioing that dread of investi istkpumhich wesermeirees exhibited by. thee bodies. liir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that similar pb. Straimstbali Iteeniaretd when he firm moved, for an enquisy ietre.the.bres ditsnatidad : lo ceurt•te of 'retie- Tbe..prearcuelon of 'bet eiugulryi!bowswer, 1110 pro -404 none of the incnovepiences hneiled. It bad , sepporsotl, pr viola state niPulfriqud my coesidursible sticentage bed attended Spabl ties ottlinCommisaionere Rawls, „Me. P.EgLadmitted that the proposition to which theilen. Member alluded bad heen,,productive of greitiwivimt•gei bet observed that it was in the form, of on Address, praying that the crown would sp., poiltt Commissioners • for the purpose, of making the desired enquiry.. lie theater', the. If f enourabAe and IsPerned Gentlemse unfortunate in adducing as a milieu for instituting an enquiry, nto the Admini -94141i011 of the Ueiversities,,in ;ss hich no ebuse was alleged, the institutioe of a similar enquiry into the Administretien of, the Charter-house, in which great abuse had. been alleged, ,The Order of, the :pay was then read. On the motion that ,the Speaker should leave the Chair, a short discussion ensued, in which Mr. B4THErs6r, Mr. UI4OIGIJAM, and Sir J. NEWIPOINT participated. ,The Motion was then agreed to, .the Rill .passed throegli,the Committee, apd the Haase hewing re. wined. the, Report was received, end ordered to be taken into further consideration on Thursday. The 1341,1 as r ereended was ordered to bb printed. —Sit CIIAIILES SAXTON presented a Petition from the Magistrates of Abingdon, in Berkshire, nib(' mere Trustees of - certain Charitable Imo Ream's, complahning of various calumnious misrepresentations toot had been made respecting the manner in which their trestthad been discharged. Mr. BROUCHAM repeated that what be had Said on that suhject had been completely misrepre easter', *lid contended that the Prtitieners bad no riebt to assume thrum misrepresentations as having bye. the actual statements made in the Heys*. ; Afrer a short conversatioe.bet ween Mr. WILOTTES• LET, Mr. 11.vritvasz, Mr. BROUGNAM, and Mr. NV , vole„ Sir C. SAZTON withdrew the Petition. • 0o the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the ENC/11 . .111ER, the further consideration of the Report of the Clierchee' Bill was postponed until to-morrow. . __. • COTTON. FACTORIES.. Sir R. PEEL prefaced his Motion, that the House Factories itself into. a Committee on the Cotton Factories Bilf, by obseriing, that about 16 years ego,. he hell brought in a Bill fur the protection of apprentices in those factories, whose masters were tnevertheless hound to protect them ; the present measure was to protect' ittle children who hail no pro tectors, although he hoped that they would meet with p e rolectors in that House. These little children were compelled to labour in the Cotton Factories 14 hours ,jet, the day, aim exertion to which their strength was 4111,4 unequal, and which in a few years generally 'destroyed them. Numerous Petitions had been pre sented to Parliament praying that that time might be shortened, and more especially one from Manchester, proceeding from persons wholly uninterested, except from motives of humanity ; among which persons were 39 medical men, and el clergymen. Indeed, he believed the number even of master spinners who were in favour of the Bill exceeded the number op posed to it ; and, indeed, were anxious that its pro visions should he extended to adults. , Lord STANLEY rose and said, it was true that several Petitions had been presented by medical men, and other respectable persons, but those Petitions ought not to be deemed conclusive. This was a case that involved a very material question, and it deserv. ed the most serious consideration of the House. Abuses had certainly existed in the Cotton Manufac. • tories, and, with a Tie* to remove them, the . Barone! (Sir R. Peel) had introduced his farmer bill. But the 13,111, now before them stated, that that Act hail become insufficient for its purpose. In what, he would ask, was it so defective ? In what way had it proved le bests ineffectual ? Had this Bill been con fine:l to the regulation of apprentices, he should_ not have had any objection to it ; but as it went trle .terfere with free labour, he objected to it most , etron ty. , lie knew of no 'precedent in the laws of ,tlgii civet!) , fee the edaption of nay such measure. fie considered the principle of free labour to be in violable by, the laws ; but still he did not mean to say that the Legislature had not power to make such provi eionetts,it.might dr.na most expedient for the regule. Sims of a trade which was found to he injurious to ..bealth. But this was not a new trade ; i t 6 1 d . trtl P ~ exerciaed for a great length of time; and i 4 t. Would acquire the most satisfactory evidence to show; that . it affected the morals, or undermined time constitution, .of those who were engaged is • 'the ininissuli of. age would have little effect, as the manufacturers did not wish to employ persons of such tender years. But if the-e children were not employed, their pareies. could derive no benefit fraitt . theilabosr, conse quently, their means of providing for their families must be considerably diminished. As to the genet al mutt st ages that were vow ry, fox, ita Kreservation s ; while iti#ave Ihem three foO institublion, It world . deprive them of the meinti. "It Wray' hive thesiotrary o' l° feet fs.mn tahattasacaotiaipited. It would ,increase thwffifficeltiy*Wnder Whit!, the country laboured in manufactstAft compare It other couptries. It wooed offer a preasiums—to.mills..in particular situ.- tiona. Mills worked by .st4not weak! !rave a great advantage over those worked - hy Aster; ('here were many instances In which it would be the ruin of la. hour, and it would offer a premium to those establish mints that were situated in lyre towns. Under all circum , tances, he should move, as an A me pd meo s, ' 6 that the !louse do reaulre itself into the said Gine mittee this day foes. months." Lord LASCELLES said, the few words which bar had to observe on the present question applied r ix the principle of the measure itself. The principle on ohicli they were proceeding was this—they were going ou to regulate every branch of trade in the tratintry, and to lay down what degree of labour 'ought to be performed by the individual workmen in the different trades. Any person standing up in that ffeuselo oppose himself to what was called a ques tion of humanity, was almost sure to be run down; but he would say, on the principles of humanity, let the Hnuse be cautious how they proceed to regulate free labour. These who hive embarked capital in any branch of trade, were bound to look about them to see.what was coming after. If the effect of the Bill . would be to prevent the employment of children under•l6, then these children would be thrown on their parents, and übimately the parish. It was nonsense to say, that if the children were not em ployed in factories they would be employed in edu. cation—they would, in most cases, remain in 'a state of idleness. The Bill gave a direct advantage to the factories in populous towns. Out of 16 Manufac tories in one little district in Yetkshire Witt which he was acquainted, 15 of them were on sereams of water. The Member for Coventry had said the other evening, that the mode of employment in factories produced a deteriorated population—that the men brought up in them were unfit for soldiers or sailors. But if this was the fact, discard these trades alto. gether, for the deduction of one hour from the usual hours of labour would not be sufficient. The blow must be aimed at the system itself. Ile might there. fore suppose diet this was but a commencement, which would be followed op by other measures. If he had thought this measure originated with the Hon. Baronet (Sir It. Peel), he should have considered it entitled to • very (different share of attention ; but the fact was, it did not originate with him ; it ori. &bated with a person well known from the Public Prints. One of the projects of this individual was the rendering Cotton Factories a perfect school of morals and education ; and it was his opinion, that by reducing the number of hours, you increased the quantity of work done; an opinion which he could not well understand. Ile could not help thinking that the measure originated with Mr. Owen; and that the first Committee and subsequent measure were got up by him. The House owed it to a very large body to institute an enquiry before they le gislated on the subjects. He believed the ex-parte statements to be incorrect, particularly in the in ferences drawn from particular facts. He would not be a party to a vote for a Committee, if he thought a Committee would necessarily defeat the measure; but when he said a Committee of Enquiry, he meant an enquiry with regard to the health of the children.— Some things might he wrong in Cotton Factories ; but were they sufficient to induce them to legislate between parent and child He should oppose the Motion for the Speaker leaving the Chair, unless On an understanding that they should go into a Com mittee upstairs. Mr. PEEL said it was unnecessary for the Noble Lord to assure the House of the sincerity and candour of his views, as these were sa matilfeat as that his humanity was unquestionable.—[llear, hgar !]—He begged leave, however, before he en.' tiered into the general question, to object to one or two of the allusions of the Noble Lord, which had a tendency to impress upon the House a prejudice , against the Bill, on the ground that it had the support of a Gentleman (Mr. Owen) who local cated certain speculative opinions on subjects of political economy. There was no strength in such an argument—fur, if true, it only went to this, that a whole subject should be merged in the indis. crcet views of a particular Advocate. Against such a doctrine he would protest, and maintain, that the question must rest on its own merits, and not on any adventitious support. The Noble Lord required further documents to throw • light on the subject, and, therefore, called for a Committee. In answer to this call, he (Mr. Peel) would only say—not that other documents may nut throw a light on the sub. jut, but had not the already before it enough to establish the necessity of adopting this Bill ? [lleac!]—But he aotad not rest the merits of this question on the general evidence in its favour ; he would be content to rove its efficacy, on the state ments of these who were its opponents, and to their observations he would chiefly canfine his comments. From these it was quite clear a great gt ievauce had sub _siated—a grievance Which it wits most desirable to re move, irit could be done without a coutravention of public principle. The opponents of this tweesore may, ti e iliVided into two classes—one of which was ueasible.of tbe great evil of excessive labour upion,fhts, constitution of childr7o, but who were still unwilling. to establish a principle of interference, which may be mirtied g iroufair. The second class denied the grim. mice altogether, and resisted any Legislative inter position. Witt* respect to the first class, he was at a loss to see how it caul) be ntsintaitted that u princi. of lie fe.clinita weresobject, sod the mode take_ brine - rig 'op`the wear of Inanufncture, 'by making the child /We wdtk op the lost time by se excessive apppcitidwisf, r eitra hours on the Nada dill's of work. Addid.le OW operation of thii titre tabour,. was the heated atmosphere in which she children were obliged' to work,and the degree of feTperature in which they were kept for holdiag tkiairrearls, In, particular branches of the matarfaeturise:if the sail were a small one, then Legialative. ipterftesltirin may be uusieceasary, on the maxim, tdt minima nun cural her, }rut here thearvil seas risorfearilty great,, for in Mtierchester alone no less their 11.400childrett were employed in' this fade. Zissriblerble bard had oh. jetted to any interposition,, on tho`grotind that it would alter the relations between the parent and the child, the child and the master, and affect that ar rangement of free labour, or, as he aftertiardp'qoall• fled it, by saying, " what was called free labour." Lord STANLEY here explained, 'that it was cali . ed free labour, thougk f it s was in fact at the command of the parent. Mr. PEEL restated, 11 that t)le - tirronenes conclusion of the Noble (Weld' ,was thii--41tat he 19p3- posed there was no chance, no medium between the employment of the children for a period of 14 or hours a day, or their actual discharge from work ak together.-4 /fear, hear !]--It was alto said that there was a greater interest in the rare of-rbildren thus employed, than if they were in the fiends Of masters as apprentices. Ile Mr, Pep) ) wan of quite a differeot opinion, tor 'lie 'pastel-Mid anfin terest in preserving the health of,isie apprentice,, par• titularly during his early years, fist he Was'bound so to apply his time, as to prevent his being a burden upon him by indisposition or .othereise during the subsisting engagement it was imperative upon him to maintain —but in the factories . tOe teimsAf engage ment was either daily or weekly, and theproprietor, in case of illness or accident. had *limy, sithenel-the means of replacing the person dischargq..,he e ls d commenced with stating, that he wopld pike out a case from the statement' of the .opponents of the measure. The partner of the lion. Memekr opposite (Mr. Phillips) had slid before the Chminkee that the Bill bore harder on the factories in the wentry than on those of Manchester, for the latter " were nearer the market for labour." What was thir but flying, that hands might always be obtained by the manufac- ' turer with facility, and therefore there existed no ne. cessity of his relaxing any part of that system under which so many were willing to act ? Substitutes were thus easily had for the sick or the weak child, end no very great inducement was held out to show the necessity of restricting the hours of labour. — Look, then, in the case of the accidents to which these mills were liable, and the consequent practice of making up for lost time in the erode of pursuing the business when the machinery was again put in mo. lion, and the House must be at once struck with the severe duties imposed upon, children. If, as has been said, the consequence of this Bill will be that the masters wilt supplant the children by the employ. meta of adults, then it is clear that the former are merely retained for their labour, and that the interest of the master was not, as had beets asserted, a suffi cient security for the treatment of the child. Besides, what security was there that the factories would not relapse into the system of bad management from which they. had emerged ? What security was there that if Parliament withdrew its interference, the arrange ments of these establishments would net again fall into that irregularity and oppressive distribution of labour which previously chat acterized them? The' number of hours during which children were em. played at these factories, appeared, from the evi dence of the proprietors themselves, to vary, on an average, of from twelve to fifteen hours each day.— In one manufactory at Manchester, which employed 600 persons, 374 of them were under 18 years of age ; and when they considered that 11,600 children were thus employed in one town, it was an argu ment, a priori, without any reference to the other parts of the subject, that, from the mode of labour pursued, the injurious consequencea to the health of the children must be manifest. That they had a right to work,and to work hard for their subsistence, was what he did suet mean to deny. That a large proportion of society must earls their bread by the sweat of their brow, was what might appear bard to the philanthropist, though the piilnsopher must think it necessary ; yet neceacary as it was in the state and condition of society, it was yet incumbent on the Legislature to see that that system of over working was not applied to the infant race, which paralysed their future exertions, nod deprived them of all fair and useful recreation. In the evidence before the Committee, Mr. Sandford had quoted the Returns from the Sunday Schools, for the purpose of contrasting the superior appearance of the children employed in the factories with those in other employ. ments; they attended more regularly than the other children, were cleaner and more orderly. But then came the part of the explanation to which lie (Mr. Peel) begged to direct the attention of the House— " the children of the Cotton Factories were in as pod health as the others, though they did not look as asell."—(Hear, hear!)—it was also said, "they came as early to school as the other children, except in some of the evenings of the winter months."— This explanation afforded room for much considers .tion. Was it tint disgusting to see that education, "which was calculated as the greatest of blessings, was converted into a curse by this mode of compelling the children to try and avail themselves of it, after the exercise of thirteen hour" and a half of close la. boar, when, throlighout the day, labour had drained from them every spring of action' that could refresh their faculties, and beuustbed that elasticity of mind the" A sip. by , 244 Uergy meo . , In answer to the allitkitierti ot,"ihdlnferences hom y ; this Petition, the Noble Lord . said he 'would grant was lgtied by one Gentleman' of great respectability,, but of io,easy a disposition, and over compassionate, temper, that he might readily be prevailed upon nil lend 'the sanction of his name to any document of dig; description. It was in this manner the Noble Lott endeavoured to shake the testimony of a name se' elevated and respected. The Noble Lord was con k pelted to acknowledge that tie Legislature had al. ready acted on the principle of interference with (mg, labour, as it is called, in the instance of the chimney. sweepers. He had incised afterwards [abort:44 o ' establish a distinction, by which that case woodb e taken nut of the general principle; bat he bad talkei —be wasmistaken in his opinion —his opposition ese toe late. The Chimney Sweeper's Act, said OM, Noble Lord, altogether abolished, this Diligently regulate, a certain species of labour for children.: lh surely the Noble Lord must confesethat an Act which, absolutely prohiNts the employing of children In s ay occupation is a far mete violent inteiretence wu free labour than one which only limits it to a limited period —vievett hours, for istample.—(fkor!)=.The Noble Lord had expatiated on the oewholesorneame of atmoephere, and misuses, of temperature, tbea t Prevlli b le e d liev in ed7o l f 6t °7l the ll.mi Fragn ip ( fragrant .* Ot e s n- n i if hat star ra ben the Blab a cotton 7 esill carried away thep — Fa n--aisair deuce cm which the'Noble Lord..velie wire tibt4le should not have 'stepped whekt be•ilid—he ought to have Meted' aa• an assimakeeist that itilldgissilif should be erected on' etwey spot litodse kintdOm. 'A principal. part of that Oboe., Was, that In thd 'establithment at Glasgow, in which- as Hos. Gee, Ileums opposite (Mr. Finlay) had a shire, the avers. age number of labourers, for each .of three years; 1811, 12, and 13, amounted to about 4404, while that of the sick belonging MO the ,establishinent,' dui. ing the same portions of time, was bat two., NI this showy statement was unluckily very mock shaken by mast' respectable *widener of a conker,. nature—that of Dr. Diane. His remark On it was, that he had paid particular attention to the mini proportion of the tick to the rest of the community. Its England he had calculated it to be on the aver. age as One' to fifty-four, and was quite surprised to find a plice esempted from lbw mortality-prem. lent in all other places itii the Celerity. On this it lied been ohserved, that certain places might he more conducive to health than others. Sir Gilbert Wane replied, that in Cardiganshire, considered the most healthful situation its the kiegdom, the average was 1 in 74; and he could not reconcile it to himself, that. in a Cotton Factory, the ratio was so low as Ito 404. One of oar Poets had said-- " to what ranuotaia's craggy cell Delight* the goddess Health to dwell?" Where she dwelt was now no longer a secret.--. Another, a laureat, had asked— In what rim retreat . The coy Nt mph fixed her tarmsed seat r' . . and be did think he watt& have heard with surprise that she had fixed it in the cotton-mill of Messrs. Finlay and Co. at Glasgow. [flear, hear! and ouch laughler.]—Abaadatice of evidence to show the necessity of the measure bad been already dis closed in the numerous petitions presented. If any more was required, he would refer the House to the pro Feedings (of which he had in his hands a Report) of two Meetings held by the Masters of these establish ments, at Ashtint.under. Line : at the first of these, it had been unanimously resolved, " that it is the opinion of this Meeting, that it is become highly !m -emory to limit the hours of labour in cotton and other mills;"—and in the second, it had been so unanimOos resolution, "that the time should be re duced to twelve hours." Here were proceedings ors the part of the masters thinnest's% admitting the pro priety of interference by the Legislature, and the ground alleged for the resolutions they had came le was, that they did not find that the limitation of Is. bout by the master* bed produced the bad elects once apprehended from it—hut then they added, that they done could not do this, because the parents, and some of the children themselves, would prefer factories where the time of working was fourteen hours on account of the additional wages; but if the House would make the reguletioti general, so far from objecting to it, they • wopld hail it with joy es an important boon. The evidence of the interested and disinterested led to the conclusion, that Parlia ment might ~ afely apply the principle of limiting the period of l a b our to cotton-mills. Mr. PHILLIPS said, it was difficult to contend with feelings of humanity, hoverer injudicious, or to alley prejudices which so much pains had been taken to excite. The cotton-spinners, whose bed. nest; was to he regulated, had much of this Olio• dice to contend with, which had been created oy envy. The manufacturers of piece-goods itnegitted that the export of cotton-yarn wee injurious to them, and Imagined that if the prodactiteues of the cotton mills were diminished, thiseeportation would he prevented. There were some spinners who being themselves also manufacturers of cotton goods, were subjected to this prek dice. Some spinners also ern• ployed apprentices, who were now under the regul s • tion of en Act of Parliament; and they, conceivi n g they were thus disadvantageously situated, in comp.- Hum of those who employed free labour, wished to reduce the latter to their own condition. 41 was rieteasery to mention these facts, to account for the Petitions which had been presented in favour of the 13i11; anal when it was also taken inttiecconnt, how easy it was to procure signatures to soy ,Petilino which purported to We for an increased ',Ages and a rcducti. , ll of the hours of labour—how clay it 010 ~ - •• - - _ ~ -. .1. • - . .... . „.. '---• . . . ' . --A • 0 ' Tilt; SrisikTESNIA N. J , ). ' . • ..\ ~1 0........ -7'". a on a fu. opini , at.t cotto if e w pot so be .--.- al ple ap I t • pe, cular evil could be l‘ketlorepo ti' which could' excite *ens in the pursuit o f stu d y ?.... gEej t c tarff. i i i f s f' v ittep : p n letter cases wprir eII did! not 'Vias i' nut disgust a' see them thus tra arm e d . 'nciple w i lts 1( ut prec i ldent after 13 or 15 hours t our, A cejtlitid an *: f the Mini- to hdpWlr atronage in that •$4 • co hr , I se h • Isqkft#o the pr • lila* ID t wltthr v . tv. n‘rdy p ! a d• t v .Oo o rict, for it, was na tipacted the hands of a writin .m at t er ? ti r v .,,, 4444 tcedent, the tOe'imi• la Commis- but he would - say poisonous, in its tattile, in o der on II c mer - guiations where . tar eacep- who worked fifteen h rs, possibly not one resided under this 1nna15k 441118 . 114141111 - 4 40 04 ‘1 111 1 ._. -I 1 • -- t h e t atttradirjgara9tices called _ in the mills ; many of them were obliged to cow* ._ _ • by one side This Bill, - wlia l its ("mimeo ..nie f aapo Trj r a l vintu , . p i k irr •ottettef. Isiow; - dirfotton - rrom the distance of a mile, aid the time so tak ft important advantages to ilhete. cloak's). Itlibitibe li 1 slich id r etibitilitittot is railed for the ap- up was to he added to that of their et at he would. satitrAibe ow:Llairitia_ta _their. _egtouti a ,L iicktimotivisAm.w.R.eibot , et itAtio i _ll,d for ill themill.—(llear, hear!)—ile woutit i Ll t rifling to go went directly to'teke Holio uwiy , wouille'rAttlitcpolfriar :`9 , a i reity'On - Fraiircaril:N4i c intlenae bultdfltafftt to the cotiiton set el as m i g ht] ) their pr ofits . ile . was very vorrit 'ailelild'aetiln.; many of s‘filtit more thin 'hi t rein were kept at admit—he wanted no evidence to prove—it was h a - Dmmissioner - tract io TiinTeiiiidie - hoped ifill There" tiara' -*ll-rll7l2;ltiiiitadiitelilitirdT3ho-nrs erda=titear!] posvittle that it wet -eertoieitet to iho {rarea them should ean opportAitigtvhd tozi host to elpliiitVlso were ' o diiAndlidn bein made'hetween , thei cHild..of the this 'great sod nourishing. country tflittlnafh• psy . to ins *a rich better acquainted Itllirthe subject than himself. I epdtKtplytekifilliq rtat , giriten; or betweens j ehe inn- mows labour should he elected, of nest, tir:l l IN . iFk a ,, bile the Bill:piettfided'•liPpioltkfrfiebialth of the 1 ecile an t .e,strit'oit.. Jie Ilsuse would also bear lit . thetesand children iii one town, B u t b ay i ng ,. to the fond,' iehittlivirOt - *dela saki away from ' ikon much of die I lod!,sibelfrequencysof accidents to wh i jch A/waling asked for evidence , he would r efg r t o, ih o lso itivio, , __ ____..._. _— ..—..... r... t....-.........e1m,s- ...t,ti:" of the. factories were subject. and the mod! liken, for signed by 30 Medical Geotlenseo and 24 tle;gymeo: liga Il