The British Press; or, Morning Literary Advertiser. — London, England, 1807-02-11 00:00:00

ROUSE or cosimom HArry Neale presanted, pursuant to the or d.r t the Hous., an Aceow.t of Places and Pen- • &ions. up to the Ist of Ja+mary. 1807.—Ordered to be pi in•ech • Sir JOHN NEWPORT, in pursuance of his moved for leave to bring in a Bill to secure the enllceion of the Dries on Andions in Ireland, and to prevent the hands therein cora-ratted.— Leave granted accordingly. Sir JOHN NEWPOR I' stated to the Hnuse, that, Isom a report of certain Commissioners speci. fi -ally appointed for the purpose f inquiring into the quit and Crown-rents in Ireland, there were certain amendments necessary for the better regn• laticn of the sale of such; he, therefore, in com pliance systh his duty, shored rn6ve foe leave to bring in a Bill, to amend the Ad for the sale of His Majesty's quit aid Crown-rents, and other rents and profits full - cited to the Crown in Ireland. Grarted. Sir J0:1N NEWPORT observed, that amongst the orders of last right, he found one net very u•ual or ordinary; namely, an order for printing the Miscellaneous Services in Ireland. As fir as his k sowledge of the proceedings of the' House had led him to lorm an opinion, he believed it was the first time. it WAS thought necessary to have such au older enforced. The delay and trou:de which such a proceeding must csette, induced him to tr-unie the House at present, and to move. 4' That the or der for printing be a:sail:dined." The SPEAKER intimated to the House, that tie order#ot ptinting was not inadvertently inserted by the Ord:, but WAS in consequence of a spcc.fic motion for that purpose, made by an Hon. Gentle man (Sir. Johns:one), then in his place, and who would be phrased to set him right, it he had mis conceived the object of his motion on the former evening. Mr. JOEINSTONE said, that he certainly did move for the printing of the Miseetanerms Serric s far Ireland; and his reason for thus moving, azo.e from what appeased to bins both corred and dc sirable, that Gentlemen may he acquainted with documents of expenditure, in which items of a large amouat were i n serted. He alluded to the item of the Dublin Hospital. and other similar heads or charge. It was rather str4 :gr, that the Right Han. Baronet should be unalnainted with the circumstance of Lis having made that motion. as, at the tine, he appeared to him (Lrr. Johnston:) a. s•vadfastly I•oking at lan. Sir JOHN NEWPORT assured the Hon. Gen tlernea, that if he was so steadfastly nhserving him, it was totally without his ,being conscious ut To the printing rf the papers, he could have no urnmer of ohjcdinn, save the delay and apparent uselessness of lay;ng before the Ono. the nu merous accrunts, some rather of a' Ovate nature, sod, in a great degree, conneded with charitable imnitatinc.s. • Lord Folkston, presented a Petition from cer tain tanners, againd the 04k Bark 13111.—Ordered to lie nn the fable. A p-r.en from the flxthequer presented an Ac cnunt nt the Permanent and %Vat Taaes. for the year 1806. —oi deredto be printed._ The SECRETARY at WAR rose to move the discharge of the Order for the House resolving it self into a Committee on the Mutiny Bill on Frtday :mt, arid to postpone the consideration until Friday se'os.ighr. He was induced to this procedure, iu conoluence of the Papers moved for by different birmb-rs, not being in a state of readiness, such as to enable Gentlemen to avail themselves of the information contained in them, ag.inst the time originally fives! upon by the present Order. The Order was Bischarged, and Friday se'nnight ap poirood for the Committee on the Mutiny Bill. Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it his duty. born Coe very candid and liberal manner in which the Nob t Lord opposite (Lord Henry Petty) had communicated the new plan of Finance, to scat: to him, and to the Right Hon. Gentlemen connedted with him io His leLjesty's Government, that it was his intention to objet to that system, and that be had dcterinit.ed. on Thursday next, to propose cer tain sesnlutions f, unded on such objeaions. On the motion of Lord HOWICL, the call of the House was postponed until Thursday seat. The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND postponed his motions relative to the powers of the Court of Session in Scotland, and to the augmenta tion of the stiprosis of the Scottish Clergy, to Friday nest. , , On the rrsotiott of Lord HOWTCK. it was ear tied, that the Rev. Michael Marlow, D.D. be re ciaer..tl to preach before the House. on the day ap- IF . ..Anted by His Majesty for a General Fast. Mr. ROSE moved..." That there be li;d before the Houst, Copies of all minutes of the Paymas less-General. and every Correspotdence which had taken place between them. and other persons, re lative to the clothing of the Royal Valetta BAR?. lions ; together with such orders as had been isstk-cl on that subjsit ; and the different prices at which the clothing was procured. from the month of Au gust, 1804, to Feb. 1807." Earl TEMILE had no objedion to the produc tion of those Papers, but thcught it unnecessary to call tor minutes, and a voluminous correspondence, in a great degree founded on the minutes. He thought it would be more adiisable to liu,it the motion to the minutes. and to such letters as were not referred to in the minutes. The motion. so un derstood, was carried. Mr. MELLISH moved—" That there be laid before the House, an Acvnint of the quantity of Spirits imported into Ireland from Great Britain, and the countervailing ditties payable thereon, for the last three years, endipg tie Ist of January, 1807." He also moved for an Account of the Spirits numuladured in Ireland, eap ned to England, and the amount of the drawback pwid thereon, for the urns period. 'Ali following Gentlemen were appointed as a selret Committer, to try the merits of the Maid• stone Petition lion W. Manic. 'Chains' using, Esq. nos. li on . John Cwt. Joio, F.. 4 Wm. Loftus, Esq. John Filler, Ng. Ga'artel Tirc‘er Steisa , s, Esq. Him. Edw. Reis ►tewart. Sir M. Browne Frilan. T:10014. Godfrey, Timothy Shanty, Esq. ::01111:Z1111. Rebrre Pas% lia•t. 101 , m. Weetiey Pole, Eq. F _. ABOLITIOS OP Xl/41/71MP.3, VF.177.23.4 P7I4IItOSS, AND EXssitlit f ANT %fr. 13IDDULPil—o I rise, Sir,' in pursuance of the notice I had the honour of giving on a for mer night, to submit to the considers ion of the (douse, CI motion CORlleetell with a system of econo my, and, in its import, similar to that proposed by an lion. Friend of mine in the year 1797. In in troducing this motion, I can with truth affirm, that my mind is totally uninfluenced by those passions which may be supposed to agitate public men, in bringing forward plans of retrenchment in Ore national expenditure, or motions for the rerltiCtion of places and pensions. The great cmeininn in my mind, that a great pratlical benefit would result to the country, and to the revenue of the country. is the most striking inducement with me foi submitting my Motion to the consideration of the House. How that benefit would be hest procured, has also been the sulijett of my inquiry, and in referring to the precedent and example of the Motion of 1797, find, that at that period, the appointment of a Com mittee of Fi.iance to investigate public establish• ments, and to silt official abases, was considered the best and most appropriate method of proceed hie. That my present ceij set would be best attain ed by moving tor the appointment of a similar Com mittee, I am inclined to conclude; particularly when 1 consider the advantage likely to result from an attentive perusal of the valuable documents of th e former—from the light which the labour and in dustry of that Committee has aftually thrown on the sublet—and, final(-, from the eventual good, which the applicati in of that iaformatien, assisted by the result of the intermediate time and circum stances, must in any future inquiry produce. 'There were certainly rainy impediment, and shako!. ties of no trifling nature, in die way of that Com mittee. To some of their inquiries, they found it impostihle to get even an answer; and in torn, eases, particularly those connefted with Scotland, miry wets not only kept in ignorance of the necessary an Wets to their interrogatories, but were absolutely rendered incapable or extending their researches, from the obscurity and vagueness in which such ohjeas of their inquiry well involved. Without troubling the House with . any general reasoning on the necessity of adopting a entwine of the na ture I propose, I alit at present confine my self to the statement of some particular cases, and be sari:tied with drawing the attention of the House to those immense emoluments which are attached to offices in the Exchequer, and to other branches of the national estahlishmens, in the inves tigation of which, the appointment of a Committee, founded on a Resolnian similar to that of 1797, would, in my opinion, be calculated to produce pleat and important benefits. With respelt to the offices in the Exchequer, a &limner: of opinion has existed as to the ssrvicer pCrformed by these in possession of them. My decided opinion is, that no service, proaerti mate to the cm Ailment, is performed ; and, therefore, that those emoluments should, under the circulistancrs of the eountry, be considerably dimiuished. In a. consideration of this n mate, the law of the c Ise is taut the only iple which should guide Parliameritary decisiad ; the /readier, precedent; and usages of the country, as applied and need upon at various 'periods of its history, should form no small portion of that reasoning, on which the Resolutions of this House are in general feu tdeel Reverting to that history, we find, so late as the year 1782, a Bill carried through this House, for the purpose of limiting the stipends of the Tellers of the Exchequer.to 40001. per :annum, in lieu of fees and other charges. As thy back as the vevoltnion,or in a few years after that memorable event, a table, regulating the nature and amount of the fees and charges then demanded by the Tel lers of the Exchequer, was prepared lit 1702 an alteration again took pine in the regulation of those offices ; and the di.tinft and specified reason for this diminution of the salaries, was the increased expenditure of the country, in consequence of the Continental wars of king William, which had oc casioned an increase of the public burdens, to the amount of one million six hundred thousand pounds. In periods subsequent, when the public burdens were still farther increased to the amount of six millions, and in the Army Services, above the sum of two mil lions was expended, the Officers of the Exchequer a3ually resigned one-third of their salaries, giving as a reason for that sacrifice, the accumulation of the public expellee, and the consequent necessity of A. vial retrenchment. From these examples in our history, this inference undeniably follows, that such offices can claim no greater proteCtion now than they did then, and therefore it is consistent with the duties of Parliament to regulate the emoluments attached to them, by the state of our national resources, and the peculiar circumstances of the time. nuns the Reports of the Committee of Finance, a mass of intelligence and of advantage to the country can be cella-Red. In the 27th Report alone, the Committee have proved, that there are offices, with salaries, to the annual amount of 26,0001. which ought to be 'seduced. The observations which ac:nrnpanied that opinion, fully justify the conclusion ~inch the Committee conceived it their duty to draw, and the system which they thought proper to recommend. In the words of that great lawyer and statesman, Lord Hale, they advised those progressive and timely amendments and reforms, which arc calcu. latest to prevent great evils, and to produce much good. His opinion they also stated, relative to those offices where the services are performed by depaties. If the hates (said ho) are unnecessary, why continue them! or, it necessary, why not re gulate the salaries, by the amount which She de putt' receives. I feel unwilling to enter into any further detail, or to take up the time of the I lons°, but to observe, that the ebjed of my 'Motion is t• ap t raint a Committee, to whom instruCtions as ge neral as those of the year 1797 should be given. In those in:mations, I find no reference was made to pensions. On this part of the inquiry, l'should propose, that the Committee should be directed to inquire into that branch of our establishment, and to ascertain whether there exist grants of this kind, either flagrantly ezen - bitant, or improperly The Hon. Member concluded by inoving—•• That a Committee be appointed to on. der of what say ing can be made, by the reduftiars of useless Places, Sinecure Offices, Exostortant Fees, and every other retrenchment that can be made in the esetuditiere of the puldie money." Lord HENRY PETTY rose, and spoke is the follnwinc,r eTen :—.` Ur. Speaker. Whatever p st difference of opinion may exist between the /feu. Gentleman and myself, with respeft to the terms and wordhig of the Motion, on the principle of the fob- • ien, there is not the slightest shade of distindlon be tween him and me, and all Omit with whom I have the honour to be connected in i f.s M ijc-ty's Govern ment. We feel equally with the H in. Gentlemen the in the expendi t necessitynreof the public res tr ot t r e c s e t s e , c a o n n d om th y e justice and po• licy of relieving the public burdens, by a re cludion of the emoluments of some offices, and an *abolition of others, which, in • the great establishment of our national polity, may be foond either exorbitant or useless. Upon .this topic, there exists, between she opinion of the country, and the determination of His Majesty, a strong simila rity and union of feeling. Convinced as 1 am of this unanimity of mind: X do trust, that a similarity of feeling, equally strong, operates with the Hon. Member, with tespod to the position, that in the in stitutions of every country, a right should exist, of rewarding the exertions of public men, by a remu neration, suitalne to the services whie's they had rendered to the state; and correspondent with the dignity of that sphere of society, in which they moved. The necessity of providing such men. with Mr eats and rewards, never was, or can be disputed. And that the power of conferring them should be within tie reach of Government, is a maxim which the Constitution and asagesi of this country. has, in every period of its hittnry, supported. The pima of consideration is to ascertain how these re treats and rewards bear upon the general in terests of the s:ate, how they are best go ird ad egainst excess, and in what manner the power of conferring is rend led less liable to minter. I do freely admit, that in former ye:trs, the grants of this nature had reached tows extent highly prejudicial; but since the American war, it has been the constant aad undeviating w irk of this House and the country, to adopt all the met pradictble and beneficial mutinies for their resinsition • and one of t!:ose means was the appoin t ment o f the Corn. mission of Accounts. The same laudable ob jea w a s kept atrial ) , in view by successive ad . ministrations. It formed a leading concern with that Ministry, at the head of which a near and severed relative of mine was placed by His Ma jesty. During the existence of that Administra tion. and the succeeding one of Mr. Pitt. - tie pu in ciple of reduCtion continued to operate, and navy retrenchments took place in the depaitment of the Treasury, and in the diminution of various nfficial fees and gratuities. In the year INS, a new Com miss:on, with the same objed, was appointed, at the head of which you, Mr. bpeaker, were placed ; and ibis House and the country have reason to admire the unremitting attention and indefat'gable industry with which that Commission proceedeetin its exten sive and important researches. 'Thus it does ap pear, that a proper and beneficial reduCtiort has, ever since the American War, continued •to be the ,constant and incessant aim of the Legislatute—a redunion consistent and compatible with these two grand pnisciples—the resources and expenditure of the canary, together with the power of conferring rewards where services were performed. I know it has been a favourite opinion with many, that it would be more congenial with the interests of the nation, to substitute large pensions, as a remanera tion for great public exertions, in place of sinecure which are so productive of ahuse. To this opinion I would, perhaps, feel no difficulty in sub scribing, were we called upon to meet a new case, or to chalk out a new path: bat when I consider that those sinecures are canna:led wish the antiquities and history of the country, that they are as it were interwoven in the organisation of its polity, and in volved in the exercise of its forms, I then feel the necessity of Slipprnting their continuance. • Un doubtedly, on too many occasions, such grants have been improperly conferred ; but to convert such an improper use into an argument against their exist• ence r would be a total surrender of fair reasoning and just conclusions. Y ou ma y as w e ll establish theimproper condud of an unlearned judge, as an argument against the system of jurisprudence ; or the errors of an ignorant military commander, as a decisive reason for disbanding an army. In what has fallen from the Hon. Gentleman seho has sub mitted this motion to the House, he appears to me not to have given credit to the respedive Adasinis [rations, for their exertions in reducing such offices as to them seemed advisable. What, I ask, has been the result of those successive inquii les In the Customs and Excise, all sinecu-es have been abolish ed t a considetable redudion has taken place lathe great Offices of State. In the Exchever, to which the Hon. Gentleman most particularly alluded, sa laries were attached, as a fixed and certain commu tation for fees, which might have been increased to an indefinite extent. There remains one office in the Cus toms, the Colle&or outwards of the port of London, which was then suffered to continue, for particular reasons, and under particular circumetariees, in the possession of a Noble Peer, and which, from simi lar inducements, has now devolved to his brother, the present Duke of Manchester. In a country where the lives and fortunes of public men are Mica, of necessity, devoted, and sacrificed to public duty, and to national pursuits. it becomes an obligation on the State, to provide a retreat for their aciaanced age, and a remuneration for the past services of those who have been so employed, and whose pri‘ vate fortunes have been thus impaired. Not only should such remuneration be made, but it should be proteded against any future hostility and attack. Of this description of rewards are those great offi ces in the F.xchequer, to winch the Hon. Gentle man has dirtily alluded. In answer, I have only to advert to the opinion and feelings of this House on a former occasion, when the right of the persons holding such offices was considered as valid and un doubted, as that by which the tenure of landed pro perty is upheld in this country. Indeed, I consider an attack on the rights of persons holding such offi ces, tinder such grants, as a dired invasion of pri vate property, and to be entitled to the same repro bation as every other unprincipled age resion. There am ether offices, such as the Register of the High Court of Admiralty, and the Clerk of Parliament, in which a legal right of property exists, and where the revel tionary interests are secured. It is certainly very true, that according to the 27th Report of the Committee of finance, great-abu tot exist in the Law Del:late:neat, and many sett emelt- JI <- merge may. an I trust will. beeleala. Ink is that department. there is also given •to the r reat Law Odicers, fn tise way elf petronagie some fond, out of which they may be enable i i' flintidelOT their families. With reseeift to drelan I. mine e el been already done, and with my Right Hon. Erie e e (Sir John Newport) at the head of the 'high &errs•. goer, and from the acknewledged cher:After of tint N o bl e Duke who presides over that Government, every ttioe which economy, attentien, and ern. tion can 'twists, mite: be expe•ted. The. hate already given a decided proof of their wire aell economical system of pollee in the Bill for the Abolition of thirty-eight Offices, which has pai n (' this Hitt e. In this country, one great evil, the sn„, t pregnant with abuse, most calculated to entail distress upset the empire, has been carefully avoid-d by the Administration with which I keys the honour 4k being cooneard ; as we tan safely and pre•edle say, that, since our secession to ante, net a sineia reversion has been granted—(Hear ! bear!) s bee on the contrary, such a principle has been intirels and solemnly renounced. In all great eonntrie,, where there Is so large an expenditure. indefinebse abuses will of necessity exist ; but I can vita truth ADM. that every pteeticeble measure has twee adepred to prem.( their growth, and to provide a wrong and permanent check age; att their recurreeee.* The Nehle Lord then concliideel, by miviog a * Amendment to the original Motion, by subtirutiag, in place of the words, after the ward 's appaine* the following." a Committee. to examine end cons s;der such It-vitiations and Checks as have been adopted. in ord.,: to enttrout the several branches of the Public Expenditure. in Great B.itein and Ireland, and to ascertain how far they have prone eifeaual ; and also to determine, what farther nuts ores can be adopted to diminish the eotnen t df Emoluments and Sinecures, without detriment tiet the public expenditure." Mr. WILB4RFOLICE-e" Sir, it is with the sits serest pleasure I rise to express the satisfaftiok I feel, cei hearing the Nible Lord meet the What which has hien made, in the manlier he has done, bY binding himst•li for the examinatina of the expeoche tore of the public maftey, and in fart giving support to this very motion, by the amendment which he has proposed. lam gild to find that Noble Lard ad, ween in the Ministerial situation, in the manacle he might have been supposed to nave done, when on this aide of the House. This cote:vet, in my opt. aion, does the present Administratiow the higher honour. But, although L feel satisfeaion iq ape proving highly of the general tenor of his speech, I feel it necessary to make a few observations, ales to state .soms•thing like objettions to some parts alit. If I understood him rightly, he said, that he would not innovate upon the Constitution, by making any alteration in the mode of rewarding services bat that were he speaking of a new Consti tution for any coutery, he would rather reward them by granting pensions, than by creating riaecurote Now, this particular passage of the Noble Lord** speech; I think, would prove injurious, and is there• fore deserving of cepsure.• Much depends upon the times we live in, in regard to hew services perform. ed to the country ought to be rewarded. Nothing can be more proper than to give pensions, in pat tice. ler cases, proportioned to the services rendered, and proportioned to the ranks and situations-of the pets sent en wheel they are to be bestowed; bet, is other cases, it may be proper to give much more than a mere equivalent for the esiolunienis of the (Aces formerly held by those who have distills guished themselves in the Army. N ivy, Law, ht. We often find individual: aiming at more than mere personaremoluments. We find them seeking their reward in the honours they acqu're, by tenders ing themselves of extensive usefulness, so as to en. title them so be recorded in the history of their country. We also often find, that those who have entered into the publie service, have givens up their professional situations, for the small enjoyment of a sinecure; and thereby giving place to_odurs, to show their great talents fur the public advantage. —lf we were to abolish sinecure offices at all, or at any time, it would be reducing the rand* of rewardingfublie servkes, to a more awkward situation thanit stood in at- present, 1 ant one of those, who wish that the utmost economy should be observed, in regard to the expenditure of the public money; but I cannot help exerewing my* .elf thus, upon the impropriety of making such a general exception to sinecures. f paye e hogging, great satislaftiou in observing, that each progress has been made in this great work ; and. I cannot bat recoiled, upon this occasion, that it was one great excellence of that eminent Statesman, now no motes (alluding to Mr. rail that during the many years of his lie which were spent in the public service of his country, this was an o;•rjeet which he always kept in view. Without any regard to personal remuneration, he persevered in abolishing all of fices which he deemed unnecessary, and even those which he had in his power to have given to his owe friends, by declaring always that an Alt of kerlia ' ;tient was to be passed for their estinaion, so AS VI ' prevent their being given away. By this means, there were no less than betwixt 20 and So oticese in the Excise and Customs, entirely done away. It might be said of him, that " II • di! g ,o 4 by straith, and blu,hed to find it fame' These anions wer, not those of the Government of the day, they alone proceeded from that obit Statesman, who afted not from mere ostentatious motives, but solely for the good of his country. To him we owe much honour in ascertaining bow the public money could be listowed most to the publit advantage. Hover much some may be disposed to reduce the emolumnits complained of, it would be low, base, and mean, to conceive, that ilk a country such as Britain, turn who have held high situations, and rendered eminent services to the public, should be leit without that support which their sitnationsicd their services entitled them to, and which their conatrymen owed them. It is a mistake for any one to conceive th it offices in this country are overpaid--(He a r kite ! bear hiw !)—So far as money goes, the fait is, those who occupy pteilic offices are rather nadir paid (Lend s , , its of dear beer ! bear hies I Bens all quarters of the Herm.) Conti &sing the situations they 611, and the persons the! most associate with, their personal emoltior:nts were much smaller than they ought to he. Its sa.t, however, that they feel a reconvened of a higlicr ord:r ; but, at tee same time, it is ncithdr a jastice to them, nor to their famili es , t h at t h e ' r country sis Nil • a , title K» o r t a:. T eri ihti 114 coa dit the Nc the co tit rT it R ti uI to sr 1 _ .